# Barry Bonds



## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Is this natural bulk?

https://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

...Is a bum; and no, there is no way that is natural bulk.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

No, that is not natural.


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## fir3fox (Dec 17, 2006)

hmm... definitely questionable.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> and no, there is no way that is natural bulk.


Why not? Not every guy who adds a good amount of size is juicing.

This is completely natural vvv >>>


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Frank, is that you??

Alas. Even after over two years of resistance exercise, my forearms still make it look like Sponge Bob and I share the same personal trainer.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

Yes, 'tis I. :icon_smile:

I hate to use the 'G' word, as it gets thrown around a lot, but it really does come down to genetics... and food and busting your butt in the gym. Some people have thick bones and muscles, some have thin bones and muscles. All different body types.

Btw, that thicker gold chain I'm wearing in the first pic (it's 18")... I can barely get it to close around my neck anymore.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Congratulations. I've been trying to get healthy over the last 2 years. (See weight loss diary in Grooming Forum.)

While I am happy with any improvement and I am seeing some because I am gradually able to use bigger dumbbells and thicker resistance bands, I realize I will never be Mr. America. But, any improvement is good. I joke about my thin forearms (thank God you wear long sleeves with dress clothes!) and am a bit bummed, but I'm a lot better off than I was before I started.

I will need to lose another 100 pounds before I will be posting any shirtless pictures anywhere. (I don't want to be banned for bad taste!!)

You look great!! Congratulations on your results.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> ...Is a bum; and no, there is no way that is natural bulk.


LOL, I remember those wristbands that players used to wear. They had their pictures on them. Sheffield used to wear them too, along with GS in gold on his front teeth.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> While I am happy with any improvement and I am seeing some because I am gradually able to use bigger dumbbells and thicker resistance bands, I realize I will never be Mr. America. But, any improvement is good.


Progress, progress, progress. :icon_cheers:



> You look great!! Congratulations on your results.


Thanks. :icon_smile:


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Frank...not being funny...but how long did it take you to bulk up like that???I aggree with you that not everybody who bulks up significantly is juicing...although through various sports I've played (baseball and basketball)I have known several guys who bulked up like that over the course of about a year or 18 months...and they all most definately were juicing...that's what leads me to believe that Barry was on the junk is the fact that this was a relatively quick transformation...also the fact that he is so "injury prone", and not crushing them like he used to, leads me to believe that he is probably off the stuff now...


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Sniff. No one asks ME how long it took to bulk up - - - -

(Sulks in corner) LOL


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Sniff. No one asks ME how long it took to bulk up - - - -
> 
> (Sulks in corner) LOL


well...how 'bout it???


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Two years, although very few of the muscles show through the remaining fat even on close inspection. (However, I started with as little muscle as a 378 pound person can have and can now use 25 lb dumbbells instead of 15 pounders and work out with the thickest resistance band, and even use two bands at once for some exercises.)

My forearms which seem to have lost all their fat now look about like Sponge Bob's.

Mr. America, I am not, but thanks for asking. It's nice to know someone cares.

You are truly a generous soul, Gabba!!!!


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Frank...not being funny...but how long did it take you to bulk up like that???I aggree with you that not everybody who bulks up significantly is juicing...although through various sports I've played (baseball and basketball)I have known several guys who bulked up like that over the course of about a year or 18 months...and they all most definately were juicing...that's what leads me to believe that Barry was on the junk is the fact that this was a relatively quick transformation...also the fact that he is so "injury prone", and not crushing them like he used to, leads me to believe that he is probably off the stuff now...


Well, admittedly it took me a few years. Yes, it happens much quicker with pharmaceutical assistance.

But to me, he doesn't look like he's juiced. He simply looks like he's packed on some weight... muscle and fat. I guess that's my point.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

In any case, Frank, your patience certainly paid off.

If you don't mind saying, how much weight to you use for your exercises? (I can't imagine you have built yourself to this point to lose it by slacking off. I imagine you at least try to maintain it.)

(I promise not to weep too loud when I compare it with mine! A lack of muscle has always been a problem, even before I got heavy. When I played basketball, burly guys could easily score over me and move me around. Also, my outside shot, accurate to about 23 feet became a heave from any farther than that.) 

However, there is a new day coming. Indianapolis Colts, look out!!! Forsberg is (at least trying) to bulk up!!


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

I'm not really all that strong, or big. I'm about 5'5".

My best squat was 315 (reps), best deadlift (1 rep) was 345, best bench was 215 (reps).

I've scaled back the low reps-high weight to do about 10 reps per set. I had a couple of injuries from pushing for maxes. My sports chiro said I could keep getting hurt and put his daughter through college.

At 50 years old (in a few days), it's time to cut my losses. Now I'm striving for a more athletic build, ala Vin Diesel. The days of fat and power are over. And always remember to lift to compete with _*you*_... no one else.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

The exercise people at my weight loss center tell me the same thing. 

I realize you are right about worrying more about gradually improving myself than about how others are doing. I know I could hurt myself (and not be able to do resistance exercise for awhile) if I don't.


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

Jesus, Frank, what happened to your chest hair?

I realize you can pack on muscle over the course of several years. And like you said, some guys just have a different bone structure. But, look at Barry's bone structure in that pic from when he played for the Pirates. He actually stole bases back then. 
He may in fact be natural, but I seriously doubt it.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

fir3fox said:


> hmm... definitely questionable.


For the record...I cant abide the rocket...I think he's almost as repugnant as Barroid...He's a good pitcher, yes, but he's also a head hunter, and his own biggest fan...

...he could be on the juice too...I suppose...


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> Jesus, Frank, what happened to your chest hair?


It turned gray! So I shaved.



> I realize you can pack on muscle over the course of several years. And like you said, some guys just have a different bone structure. But, look at Barry's bone structure in that pic from when he played for the Pirates. He actually stole bases back then.
> He may in fact be natural, but I seriously doubt it.


Well, at the risk of over-defending him... I've experienced growth in the size of my hands, wrists and feet. I used to wear a size 7 ring (still have my h.s. ring) and now wear an 11; I wore size 8-8 1/2 shoes and now wear 9 1/2-10.

Weight training causes connective tissue and bone to grow, as well as muscle.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Frank aka The Minotaur said:


> Why not? Not every guy who adds a good amount of size is juicing.
> 
> This is completely natural vvv >>>


Wow,That must've been pretty painful to shave all that off,Wasn't It?


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Back to Bonds:

_Game of Shadows _makes it pretty clear that Bonds, never the easiest guy to work with, was absolutely incensed at the attention garnered by Sosa and McGwire in 1998; thus began his involvement with the drugs.

Some observers are now positing that when the dust settles as many as 70 percent of major leaguers during the Needle Era juiced up to some degree.

It's just part of the overall decline of the game. The athletes are so far removed from the fans it's ridiculous. The worst player on the worst team makes more in a day than I do in a year, and after a while I just lose interest.

The NY-Penn League (single A short season) operates a franchise nearby and I love watching them. They make about as much as a convenience store clerk, and only for a few months out of the year. Also the New England Collegiate League, a wooden bat outfit, plays around here. Those guys get meal money and live in people's spare bedrooms. They're hungry, and they play like it.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

$2350. That is roughly what the lowest paid major league ball-player makes in one day, which is the league minimum -- and lots of players make it. Good dough -- $380,000 per annum.

Patrick, you are in serious need of a raise though.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Mike Petrik said:


> $2350. That is roughly what the lowest paid major league ball-player makes in one day, which is the league minimum -- and lots of players make it. Good dough -- $380,000 per annum.
> 
> Patrick, you are in serious need of a raise though.


OK, more than I make in a month, then. You get my drift.

And I agree about the raise!


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

*Here's what Hank Aaron says*

https://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/jackie/news/story?id=2837931


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## fir3fox (Dec 17, 2006)

Yikes, the list grows longer.

https://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/13/steroid.report/index.html


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## Akajack (Jun 15, 2007)

Entire 400+ page Mitchell report, if anyone is interested:

https://www.thesmokinggun.com/graphics/pdf/mitchellreport.pdf


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

*Could Be...*



VS said:


> Is this natural bulk?
> 
> https://r_harrison.tripod.com/Agonist/BarryBonds.jpg


It is possible to do that without steriods.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Maybe this explains some of Roger Clemens's tantrum throwing.


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

I watch baseball on Channel 5 and have been appalled by this report, especially as several former and current Yankees players have been named in it. Can we trust any of the records achieved by hitters in recent years?


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I read the condensed Mitchell report yesterday (I'm considering reading the whole thing, but it's loooooooooong)...I must say that it's worth reading, alot of questions that people have been asking for a while are answered...

Like I said, it isnt so much the seroids that bothers me about Barry as it is the fact that he's just a class A dickwad and I'd like to see him burn just for that...call me juvenille or silly or whatever...I just really dislike the guy, and I suspect that most everybody here who's met him in person shares my views...I mean, if he wasnt such a bastard, perhaps I'd feel somesympathy for him, but I truly hope that even if he doesnt get sent up north his career is ruined and his legacy is severly tarnished...serves him right...

...and just for the record...I hope the same thing happens to the Rocket given his involvement in all of this...for pretty much the same reasons...

...one thing I'll say in praise of Canseco and Big Mac...they might have been juice-heads aswell...but at least when they were in Oakland, they were good to their fans...


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

The MLB Commissioners and the team owners must take a huge share of the blame for not investing in regular testing. The advantages of steroid use in MLB are literally massive. The owners, managers and coaches must have known what was going on. Frankly, the recent winners of World Series rings should consider them tainted and worthless. 

Baseball must introduce rigorous testing in time for next year's spring training. The "achievements" of the miscreants must be erased from the record books. Past steroid users must be thrown out of the Hall of Fame. Those who fail tests must be fined heavily and serve lengthy suspensions. Anything less will further undermine any credibility that the sport has left.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

It makes them hit more homers and homers make the fans clap. What's the big deal? The league ought to allow it I say. It's not like something important is going on, it's just a game, might as well make it fun.


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

Babe Ruth, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron did not use or need steroids. They hit plenty of homers!


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Wow, Hank's perspective was completely heads on.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Henry Aaron lost all credibility in my book when he came out to publicly defend Michael Vick...I could care less about skin color, black white, Chinese, mexican...it doesnt really matter to me, I can't take seriously anybody who could defend such a disgusting excuse of a human being...Honestly after hearing about his views on the Michael Vick case, I had to admit that I was kind of glad that Barroid (whom I understand he doesnt really like that much) broke his record...

It doesnt really matter because that record will belong to ARod by the end of his career, and judging from the Mitchell report it looks like he'll earn it the right way...

and yes, I aggree that the blame shouldnt rest sole-ly on the players...the owners and management knew this crap was going on and did zero about it...


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Henry Aaron lost all credibility in my book when he came out to publicly defend Michael Vick...I could care less about skin color, black white, Chinese, mexican...it doesnt really matter to me, I can't take seriously anybody who could defend such a disgusting excuse of a human being...Honestly after hearing about his views on the Michael Vick case, I had to admit that I was kind of glad that Barroid (whom I understand he doesnt really like that much) broke his record...
> 
> It doesnt really matter because that record will belong to ARod by the end of his career, and judging from the Mitchell report it looks like he'll earn it the right way...
> 
> and yes, I aggree that the blame shouldnt rest sole-ly on the players...the owners and management knew this crap was going on and did zero about it...


I doubt either Barry or Hank are bothered by your opinion, but, I think Hank's defense will probaly make Barry feel a bit better, which is good.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

jpeirpont said:


> I doubt either Barry or Hank are bothered by your opinion, but, I think Hank's defense will probaly make Barry feel a bit better, which is good.


No, it would appear that Barry and Hank are only good for Barry and Hank...well at least that's true in the case of Barry...perhaps that's why he finds that he has so few supporters to appeal to now in his time of crisis...


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> No, it would appear that Barry and Hank are only good for Barry and Hank...well at least that's true in the case of Barry...perhaps that's why he finds that he has so few supporters to appeal to now in his time of crisis...


He has a good many supporters, depends on the circles you run in. Still, I'm sure Hank's supports mean something, it superior to those disaffected fans with overwhelming senses of entitlement.


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Like I said, it isnt so much the seroids that bothers me about Barry as it is the fact that he's just a class A dickwad and I'd like to see him burn just for that...call me juvenille or silly or whatever...I just really dislike the guy, and I suspect that most everybody here who's met him in person shares my views...I mean, if he wasnt such a bastard, perhaps I'd feel somesympathy for him, but I truly hope that even if he doesnt get sent up north his career is ruined and his legacy is severly tarnished...serves him right...


+1

The Mitchell report helps Barry in that it shows that steroid use was rampant in baseball when Bonds had his great years. He is an incredible player that wanted an extra edge. So did many others.

But I also agree with Gabba Goul that Barry is an assho*le that is disliked by most players and fans. That is why there is a cry to punish him to the max.

Nothing will happen to many or any of the players cited in the Mitchell report, but few if any of them are as disliked as Barry B.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

jpeirpont said:


> He has a good many supporters, depends on the circles you run in. Still, I'm sure Hank's supports mean something, it superior to those disaffected fans with overwhelming senses of entitlement.


Trust me...there are black people out there who despise Barry too...

I take it you don't watch much baseball (and that's probably why you're trying to subtly turn this into a racial thing) because if you did watch baseball, you'd know that its pretty universal that baseball fans of all colors hate Barry...he was booed in every park he played in except for at&t...plus if Hank is such a fan of Barry, how come he wasn't there when Barry broke his record??? How come he only recorded that congratulatory message for Barry at the request of MLB and not "in support" of Barry??? Face it...its not a race thing...Barry is just a jerk, plain and simple...I suspect that if Barry were white you'd aggree with me...us baseball fans aren't the only ones with an overwhelming sense of entitlement...


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Trust me...there are black people out there who despise Barry too...
> 
> I take it you don't watch much baseball (and that's probably why you're trying to subtly turn this into a racial thing) because if you did watch baseball, you'd know that its pretty universal that baseball fans of all colors hate Barry...he was booed in every park he played in except for at&t...plus if Hank is such a fan of Barry, how come he wasn't there when Barry broke his record??? How come he only recorded that congratulatory message for Barry at the request of MLB and not "in support" of Barry??? Face it...its not a race thing...Barry is just a jerk, plain and simple...I suspect that if Barry were white you'd aggree with me...us baseball fans aren't the only ones with an overwhelming sense of entitlement...


You are right I am no great Baseball fan, if I was a fan I might be offended by his cheating. It isn't racial thing, though I know for a fact that Blacks view this completely different than you and most whites I've seem comment. I am a member of a few Black organizations and on a few message boards and the reactions to this is completely opposite, it's interesting and made me follow it more.
My point remains the same Hank's support likely means something to him , not yours, your just an angry fan.
If Barry was white I'd probaly not come across the subject at all, so I'd simply be ignorant; I only know about it because it comes up in the groups I interact in.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Fair enough...but I'm not looking at it from a racial standpoint...I'm looking at it as a baseball fan...there are more than a few white athletes whom I've met whom I dislike and I think are hurting their sports...I've also met plenty of black athletes whom were really nice guys, believe it or not TO (whom I thought was a jerk before meeting him) is one of the coolest football players of the modern era...I really changed my opinion about the guy after getting to meet him in person...and anybody who knows me knows that Michael Jordan has been a personal hero of mine for years and years...

I remember when the news first broke about barrys indictment and stepen a smith got on espn basically calling anybody who felt that Barry should be punished a racist...I'm sorry...but race is not the issue here...its being made into a racial issue by a small few...but if you were a baseball fan you'd understand where this animosity is really comming from...like you said...if Barry weren't black you wouldn't care...that really does seem like cause for reflection...or at least you should find out a bit more about why people really don't like Barry...believe it or not, it isn't because of his race... Not every white/not black person out there is out to "get" the black man...


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Fair enough...but I'm not looking at it from a racial standpoint...I'm looking at it as a baseball fan...there are more than a few white athletes whom I've met whom I dislike and I think are hurting their sports...I've also met plenty of black athletes whom were really nice guys, believe it or not TO (whom I thought was a jerk before meeting him) is one of the coolest football players of the modern era...I really changed my opinion about the guy after getting to meet him in person...and anybody who knows me knows that Michael Jordan has been a personal hero of mine for years and years...
> 
> I remember when the news first broke about barrys indictment and stepen a smith got on espn basically calling anybody who felt that Barry should be punished a racist...I'm sorry...but race is not the issue here...its being made into a racial issue by a small few...but if you were a baseball fan you'd understand where this animosity is really comming from...like you said...if Barry weren't black you wouldn't care...that really does seem like cause for reflection...or at least you should find out a bit more about why people really don't like Barry...believe it or not, it isn't because of his race... Not every white/not black person out there is out to "get" the black man...


We are in America and everything is racial even though many loathe to admit it. I have heard nothing, well nothing on this level, about Mark McGuire's or Sammie Sosa's cheating, only Barry's which makes one suspicious. 
I wasn't trying to frame you as the racist, if it came across that way, my bad. I was simply saying Blacks see it differently. Though I did say and believe Henry's opinion means more , your does more than mine because you are actually a fan, while I only like Barry Bonds and a couple other players. 
I don't do most things fans do , I'd never ask for an autograph, or ever say hi, or attempt to interact personally with an athlete unless he was from my city or we shared some other sort commonality. Even if I did those thing personally, I do not think the athlete has an obligation to be nice to me, his job is left on the field/court. I think if fans didn't think they were entitled to spa treatments, hugs and kisses, Barry wouldn't seem so bad.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

It's very funny that we had this conversation when we did...as much as I dislike Barry...what you say about race might have some truth to it after all...after watching some of the sports programs today, I was literally sickened to see how many sports casters wanted to give the rocket the benefit of the doubt...now here's a guy on the juice...here's a guy who is almost as much of an insufferable ***** as Barry and just an all around dirty ball player (he's probably the worst head-hunter sence Don Drysdale)...and here these idiots on ESPN are defending him because he claims that the Mitchell Report is wrong and he never did juice (when anybody with eyes can tell that he did)...as much as I hate to admit it, I can't really think of any reasons other than political as to why they arent railing Rocket the way they do Barry (now, that's not me defending Barry...I'd like to see them both punished)...

but I still have to maintain that if Barry werent such a jerk, people wouldnt be so against him...I mean, you mentioned Sammy Sosa...well...he isnt exactly white...but I think people didnt give him such a hard time because he was a much more fan-friendly player (or so I've been told)...there have plenty of white ballplayers who have been labeled as jerks by the media (Kenny Rogers and John Rocker come to mind)...

also as far as guys not being obligated to sign autographs or chat with fans or whatever...that's very true...but when you're at the ballpark and you routinely refuse to sign autographs for kids when most all of your other team-mates do, then I'm sorry...to me that's a jerk...it'd be different if he turned away grown-ups comming up to him in a restaurant or something...but at the ballpark??? and little kids??? shows no class in my book...I believe that a player should be grateful for the fact that they have fans who basically pay their salary by comming to their games to watch them play...plus, if he really wanted to be left alone and out of the public eye, he could have quit baseball long ago and gotten a job as a mailman or something...


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