# Best hope for a long lasting American car?



## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

I'm in the market for a new automobile, and after owning several imports, I would like to buy American. I would like to buy a midsize or larger car with the best chance of living through a decade plus and a couple hundred thousand miles in Minnesota. Is there an American version of a Volvo 240? I would post this in the trad forum, but the guys there are so tired of traddest car posts that I decided to launch it here.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Depending on what you mean by "American", probably your first choice would be an American-built Honda or Toyota.

Failing that, see what CU and the Car Guys say. The best thing about this is that when people say they don't make them the way they used to, the truth is that they make them way better than they used to, so that you can make a car go a long time with proper care. My last American car was a Grand Voyager, and it had 150K on it when it was rear-ended and totalled on the Garden State Parkway. I thought it was a great car, even though they aren't known for being terribly reliable.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

I've known guys with Jeeps that have lasted a long time (150k+ miles). They had Cherokees (the boxy ones) and Wranglers (CJs) though, so I don't know if the new models will last as long. The police use Impalas and Crown Vics. I'd guess they would both hold up well since the PD's are pretty tough on them. My grandpa used to keep his Lincolns a long time, but he also didn't put many miles on them. As Jack said, the key is proper care of your vehicle.


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## obiwan (Feb 2, 2007)

The older Cherokee's and early Grand Cherokee's with the I-6 4.0l motors were great and would run for ever. The things that consistently went wrong motor wise were coils and rear main seals on the crank. 

The GC had a dana 35C rear axle which was really a poor choice for a vehicle that size and were prone to axle bearing failure.

My daily driver beater mobile is a 1999 Dodge Durango with the 5.9L motor, 90K miles and counting, regular maintenance, new shocks and tires so far (knock on virtual wood).


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Buicks are fairly reliable


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

I think that the Crown Victoria/Mercury Marquis/Town Car are by far the most reliable American built cars. They run easily as taxis up to 250K+ miles.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

maxnharry said:


> I think that the Crown Victoria/Mercury Marquis/Town Car are by far the most reliable American built cars. They run easily as taxis up to 250K+ miles.


Good point, I had not thought of taxis.


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

maxnharry said:


> I think that the Crown Victoria/Mercury Marquis/Town Car are by far the most reliable American built cars. They run easily as taxis up to 250K+ miles.


A very rugged reliable car. Most of the nations police cars are also Crown Vics.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

Unfortunately, they do not make Checker taxicabs any longer, otherwise that would be the hands up winner.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*Ford Mustang*

I bought a Mustang in April of 2000. It is sitting at 170,000 miles. I am on my third set of tires, third set of brakes, and I do not know how many oil changes. Other than that, everything is factory original, including the transmission and clutch. Based on the original purchase price, I paid less than 10 cents per mile, and that includes the tax, title, and tag.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Miles is no problem, but you're going to have a hard time getting a decade with no electrical issues on any new car.


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## The Other Andy (Jan 9, 2008)

I second the Crown Vic. My dad has one with about 185,000 on it.

That V8 and ladder chassis with the solid rear axle is old tech, but its tried and true. He's had no issues with it other than standard maint. and an old lady running into him.

He claims the Town Car has too many bells and whistles that will break, but this is from a guy who went out of his way to find steel wheels, so take that with a grain of salt.


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## Bama Mike (Dec 14, 2007)

I might be wrong on this, but I believe the Crown Vics are about to be a thing of the past. Most of the patrol vehicles in my police department are Crown Vics and the word on the street is that Ford will no longer be producing them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

Bama Mike said:


> I might be wrong on this, but I believe the Crown Vics are about to be a thing of the past. Most of the patrol vehicles in my police department are Crown Vics and the word on the street is that Ford will no longer be producing them. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


You are correct about the Crown Vic. It is only available to fleet buyers in 08, but the Mercury Marquis and the Lincoln Town car (both which are very similar mechanically) are still for sale.

The Mustang is also a good choice as noted above. My cousin drives an '86 LX V8 with over 200K on the clock.

The common denominator in these vehicles is their Ford V8. The V8 runs at much lower rpm and temp to achieve the same speed as a V6 and consequently lasts much longer.


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

The Other Andy said:


> I second the Crown Vic. My dad has one with about 185,000 on it.
> 
> That V8 and ladder chassis with the solid rear axle is old tech, but its tried and true. He's had no issues with it other than standard maint. and an old lady running into him.
> 
> He claims the Town Car has too many bells and whistles that will break, but this is from a guy who went out of his way to find steel wheels, so take that with a grain of salt.


The steel wheels are stronger than the alloy wheels and won't bend as easily if one hits a pothole, curb etc. It looks like dad knows what he is talking about.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

The quality of most new US cars is about on par with equivalent Japanese vehicles, and in aggregate, better than the new German models - mainly due to the new German cars moving to insanely complicated integrated vehicle control bus systems (each door in a BMW 3- has a dedicated microcontroller. Cost to replace if it fails? $600.) 

A few general tips:

Look for a model well into it's lifespan - you don't want the first couple years, or the last couple of years. Replacement parts will be more available and cheaper, and the bugs will be worked out. This also counts for major redesigns of existing platforms (new chasis, powertrain, etc...)

A six cylinder engine, in general, they tend to last longer than fours.

Try to get as few bells and whistles as possible. Get manual seats, no power anything. Get a factory installed CD player, though, the OEM car stereos last a LOT longer than most of the aftermarket garbage.

In general, manual transmissions need more frequent, cheaper repairs. Automatics need less frequent, more costly repair.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

How about a pick up?


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Not midsize but might be of interest https://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2006/08/stories/08/1.html


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## The Other Andy (Jan 9, 2008)

SpookyTurtle said:


> The steel wheels are stronger than the alloy wheels and won't bend as easily if one hits a pothole, curb etc. It looks like dad knows what he is talking about.


I'm not saying he is wrong (I have steel wheels on my truck) but he might be overly technology-adverse.


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## XdryMartini (Jan 5, 2008)

What defines "American?" Most GM's and Ford's are made in Mexico and Canada / styled in Europe and Japan w/ the big 3's trading partners. Most use less than 20% made in America parts. Don't get me wrong though, I have stock in lots of Detroit's best and drive a CTS-V.


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## bjorn240 (Jan 8, 2008)

SpookyTurtle said:


> The steel wheels are stronger than the alloy wheels and won't bend as easily if one hits a pothole, curb etc. It looks like dad knows what he is talking about.


This is assuredly false. Steel wheels are far more malleable than alloy wheels and will bend much more easily if one hits a pothole. That said, they're a lot cheaper.

As far as the good, long-lasting car goes, the OP has a lot of choices, and certainly ones that extend far beyond the archaic Vic. The GM Acadia and Cadillac CTS-V have been noticeably outstanding American cars that I've driven in the last year. A lightly used C5 Z06 Corvette isn't too shabby either. Making a car last in this day and age is usually just an exercise in proper maintenance.

- Christian


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

bjorn240 said:


> This is assuredly false. Steel wheels are far more malleable than alloy wheels and will bend much more easily if one hits a pothole. That said, they're a lot cheaper.


That's why all the police cruisers use steel wheels, because they are so much less reliable? That's why when buying a new car with alloy wheels they try to sell you a road hazzard insurance package and they don't do that with steel wheels? I live in NE and and we have winter potholes the size of Honda Civics. I have never bent a steel wheel in my life, but I've had a few alloys meet an untimely end. Of course the profile of the tires may have something to do with alloys being damaged easier. You never see low profile tires on a steel wheel.

On a Crown Vic or Grand Marquis the alloy wheels aren't the same high quality wheels that one would find on a Corvette or other performance oriented vehicle. If the alloy wheels would suffer thru more abuse than the steel wheels, I'm sure the police cars and taxis would use them.


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## bjorn240 (Jan 8, 2008)

Fleet cars use steelies due to cost. 

The Michigan State Police annually tests all fleet offerings for police cars, and authorities in more than 50% of all jurisdictions use these test results to select the car to buy. Unsurprisingly, cost is one of the major factors in selecting the best car, and steelies are significantly cheaper than alloys. 

I've raced rally cars professionally. Rally puts a greater strain on wheels than any other motorsport. And _everyone_, even the most cash-strapped amateur competitor uses alloy wheels. Why? Because the costs of replacing bent steelies over the course of a season would be vastly more than purchasing two or three sets of alloys.


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

bjorn240 said:


> Fleet cars use steelies due to cost.
> 
> The Michigan State Police annually tests all fleet offerings for police cars, and authorities in more than 50% of all jurisdictions use these test results to select the car to buy. Unsurprisingly, cost is one of the major factors in selecting the best car, and steelies are significantly cheaper than alloys.
> 
> I've raced rally cars professionally. Rally puts a greater strain on wheels than any other motorsport. And _everyone_, even the most cash-strapped amateur competitor uses alloy wheels. Why? Because the costs of replacing bent steelies over the course of a season would be vastly more than purchasing two or three sets of alloys.


But you're talking about a much higher quality alloy wheel, not the ones that come on a Ford passenger car.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

XdryMartini said:


> What defines "American?" Most GM's and Ford's are made in Mexico and Canada / styled in Europe and Japan w/ the big 3's trading partners.


Not really, most of the "Big 3" cars are still made in the US, there are only a handful of plants in Mexico and Canada that export back to the US. A few of the partner-produced cars are imported (such Chevy Aveo) or built in jointly run factories (as in the Toyota Matrix / Pontiac Vibe built in NUMMI)

The wholly-owned foreign subsidiaries build their cars in their home countries and export as needed (Jaguar, Volvo, Opel, Holden, Land Rover, etc...)


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## bjorn240 (Jan 8, 2008)

SpookyTurtle said:


> But you're talking about a much higher quality alloy wheel, not the ones that come on a Ford passenger car.


No. 90%+ are regular cast alloy wheels. I can only think of a handful of teams that are running forged wheels. Clearly we're not getting anywhere here and we're taking the discussion off-topic, so let's just agree to disagree.


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## 92builder (May 2, 2007)

*Crown Vics run forever!*

My '96 CV is in the parking lot with 243K on the odometer; I've probably paid .03 - .04 cents per mile to be honest.


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

Is the P71 Interceptor better than the standard Crown Victoria for everyday driving? It seems one might get a little more respect (people moving out of your way) with that black grille coming up from behind.


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