# Alden restoration



## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

So last month I got a pair of Alden-for-BB unlined LHS on Ebay. I posted in the acquisitions thread about how they were too big for me, and I was thinking about recrafting.










So I sent Alden an email with some questions about the restoration process and special requests I had:



> Hello,
> 
> I have a pair of Brooks Brothers unlined shell cordovan LHS penny loafers in color #8 shell cordovan. I would like to send them in for restoration, but I have a couple of questions and special requests, and I'd like to know if they can be accomodated.
> 
> ...


And here's the response I got:



> Good Morning Mr. [Orgetorix],
> 
> Thank you for your message.
> During the restoration service your shoes will be re-lasted and the uppers will be refinished.
> ...


As you can see, not extremely helpful.

Can any of you who have had shoes restored by Alden comment on my questions and the likelihood of having my requests accommodated? Ideas about how to note these requests for the workers doing the actual reconstruction? Am I just being entirely too picky?


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## caligula455 (Jun 3, 2009)

I have not had any shoes recrafted (yet) but from what i have seen here, the request to leave the uppers alone is always ignored. that goes for Alden and AE. 

i would imagine that any new heel they put on will be the new style and that the sole could be done as well. perhaps you can call and talk to them in person? I would be surprised if Alden refused to help you on that. 

i would also heed the advice to put an actual written note in with the shoes so that the instructions aren't lost.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

The shoes will be much tighter when they finish. They usually call first, but put a note in there asking for them to. Ask each question over the phone.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I requested natural edge treatment for my calf LHS when I had them recrafted, was told they would try, but I got the standard edge treatment. I'm sure they would put on a modern combination heel by default.

I think the shoes would be back to normal size with a recraft. Anything else is a crapshoot. Rubberband notes to the shoes with your requests.

FWIW, I requested that AE not refinish a pair of shell McNeils and they abided by my request.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

If the shoes weren't loafers, I'd laminate the requests on a card and attach it with a zip tie to an eyelet. I guess sticking them inside the shoe is the best I can do.

I'm fairly confident that B. Nelson could accommodate requests 2, 3, and 4--but then, they don't have the original lasts, and the whole purpose of this project is restoring them to the correct size. 

Guess I'll just have to pay my money and take my chances.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm sure they'll call you before they start. This gives you a chance. I've got a pair like yours and will have all the same requests when I send them in, so please let us know what happens. I'm thinking they may refuse the natural edges since the shoes are for BB, but who knows.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Orgetorix said:


> If the shoes weren't loafers, I'd laminate the requests on a card and attach it with a zip tie to an eyelet. I guess sticking them inside the shoe is the best I can do.
> 
> I'm fairly confident that B. Nelson could accommodate requests 2, 3, and 4--but then, they don't have the original lasts, and the whole purpose of this project is restoring them to the correct size.
> 
> Guess I'll just have to pay my money and take my chances.


If you're willing to wait another month I should be receiving my loafers back from Alden (see: "Documenting the Alden Restoration Experience" thread) and can let you know how much tighter they are (the ones I sent in had been considerably stretched over time).

I didn't even try asking them not to touch the patina because almost all reports were they just generally ignored such requests. Can't hurt to call and press the issue, but I would probably assume that whatever instructions get sent with the shoes are somehow separated as they wait their turn for recrafting (wait time is now 6-7 weeks).


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Got Shell? said:


> The shoes will be much tighter when they finish.





AlanC said:


> I think the shoes would be back to normal size with a recraft.


I'm not ready to disagree, but can anyone explain why this would be so? If the leather has stretched, it seems like that would be permanent, unless they actually re-sew the connection between upper and midsole.

Only thing I can think of would be that the footbed comes back thicker, which would tighten the fit somewhat.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

Put a note in with the shoes stating your requests.
Include in the note that you would like to be contacted before any work is started. DO NOT include payment. In your note tell them that you will give them your cc information when they call you. This way you can be sure they will contact you. Get the name of the person that you speak to. Ask them if they would personally oversee to it that your requests are followed. Also ask them to call you if during the process they run into any problems accomodating your requests.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

Kurt N said:


> I'm not ready to disagree, but can anyone explain why this would be so? If the leather has stretched, it seems like that would be permanent, unless they actually re-sew the connection between upper and midsole.
> 
> Only thing I can think of would be that the footbed comes back thicker, which would tighten the fit somewhat.


I can't offer an explanation, but I had a pair of 9.5 wide BB LHS that I sent in for restoration and asked for them to make them narrower. The guy who called from Alden explained that the shoes would automatically be 1 width narrower when restored. When they arrived, they fit exactly like a pair of 9.5 normal width BB LHS I had. The were much tighter in the width. I put the soles up against the normal width shoes I had and they were the exact same width, and putting the shoes side by side, you wouldn't have been able to tell that one of them had ever been wide.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

I just looked at the B.Nelson website for the first time. I have heard nothing but great reviews of their repair work, but I noticed on the site that they even use the correct last? I was surprised to see this because many people said they prefer to send their shoes back to the manufacturer since the original last would be used. Maybe someone can answer whether B.Nelson has different lasts for each shoe maker or how they do it? Here is the paragraph. 
"Nelson specializes in factory method resoling. Each pair of shoes is fitted with the proper last. The sole is removed, cork footbeds are stripped and replaced, and even welts and heel bases are replaced when necessary. We use a minimum of 19 steps in order to complete our resoling process. Our process is so detail-oriented that we even take the time to pre-grove a channel before stitching the new sole on. This is done so that the stitching of the new sole is below the surface of the leather to allow maximum wear on your repair. The final step is to remove the last so that the original size and shape of the shoe are not altered."


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

I'm guessing that "proper last" means an 'appropriately sized and shaped' last and not a factory original last, unless such a repair shop had an outworker's contract to repair shoes for a given maker.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

well-kept said:


> I'm guessing that "proper last" means an 'appropriately sized and shaped' last and not a factory original last, unless such a repair shop had an outworker's contract to repair shoes for a given maker.


To clarify we hand pick each pair of lasts and modify them to fit properly as needed.
The idea of the original factory last is somewhat of a myth to me.
Here's why:
We frequently receive shoes from several very well respected shoe companies here on this forum. We receive them after they were sent back to the factory for re-crafting. Afer the re-craft the customer complained that the shoes did not fit properly. So...we correct them. 
My only conclusion is that it's not only important to fit the shoe properly with the correct last but, equally as important are the craftsmen doing the work.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

So, Nick, if I were to send my shoes (pictured at the top of the thread) to you, could you recraft them in such a way that they'd fit a half size smaller? That seems to be the amount by which they've stretched out. If you can honestly say you can do it, I'd much rather use your services than Alden's.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm tempted to send B.Nelson some of my Aldens to have dainite soles put on. LHS's with a dainite sole are very appealing to me, since they will be slightly thicker and still look pretty much like a leather sole while being much more water resistant and durable. Same with longwings.


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## GentlemanGeorge (Dec 30, 2009)

Hey, Nick! I just sent you an email today with a picture of my wrecked Florsheim monk-strap chukkas. I learned about your services through this thread, and I'm glad to see that you're a forum member. You'll groan when you see them in person, I really abused them, but I love those shoes. I plan to send them to you tomorrow with my number for you to contact me, but I was thinking that it might be an interesting thread to document and chronicle the repair process, posting any thoughts you may have regarding repairs and proper shoe care along the way. Game?

George

(Excuse me for jumping in on the thread this way, btw.)


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

GentlemanGeorge said:


> Hey, Nick! I just sent you an email today with a picture of my wrecked Florsheim monk-strap chukkas. I learned about your services through this thread, and I'm glad to see that you're a forum member. You'll groan when you see them in person, I really abused them, but I love those shoes. I plan to send them to you tomorrow with my number for you to contact me, but I was thinking that it might be an interesting thread to document and chronicle the repair process, posting any thoughts you may have regarding repairs and proper shoe care along the way. Game?
> 
> George
> 
> (Excuse me for jumping in on the thread this way, btw.)


Yea I'm game.
Look forward to the challenge.
Speak to you soon.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

Orgetorix said:


> So, Nick, if I were to send my shoes (pictured at the top of the thread) to you, could you recraft them in such a way that they'd fit a half size smaller? That seems to be the amount by which they've stretched out. If you can honestly say you can do it, I'd much rather use your services than Alden's.


Thank you for your confidence in our abilities. To be honest, stating that we can take your shoes in by a full half size would be misleading. Because of the way your shoes are welted to the insole and upper they do not allow us to take them in on a re-last. However, there is a shrinking process that we use that will tighten them up.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Nick V said:


> Thank you for your confidence in our abilities. To be honest, stating that we can take your shoes in by a full half size would be misleading. Because of the way your shoes are welted to the insole and upper they do not allow us to take them in on a re-last. However, there is a shrinking process that we use that will tighten them up.


Well, if you can shrink them even somewhat I'm willing to try it. I may be overestimating things by saying they're a half size large; who knows. And I'd rather save $50 (and 4-5 weeks) and have the work done by craftsmen who can follow my other requests.

Out of curiosity, do you use the same relasting process that Alden would use for these shoes? If so, and if I'm right that they've stretched out by half a size, would that imply Alden wouldn't be able to return them to the original size either? As you can see above, the Alden rep wasn't very helpful in answering this for me by email.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

Orgetorix said:


> Well, if you can shrink them even somewhat I'm willing to try it. I may be overestimating things by saying they're a half size large; who knows. And I'd rather save $50 (and 4-5 weeks) and have the work done by craftsmen who can follow my other requests.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you use the same relasting process that Alden would use for these shoes? If so, and if I'm right that they've stretched out by half a size, would that imply Alden wouldn't be able to return them to the original size either? As you can see above, the Alden rep wasn't very helpful in answering this for me by email.


We use the same process that the makers use in manufacturing. However, the main difference between a reputable cobbler and the factory restoration (I mean the cobblers that actually use lasts) is a cobbler handles each pair of shoes individually verses the factories method of putting the shoes on basically an assembly line. Each person doing a specific task. That's why it is problematic for them to honor personnel requests.
It amounts to them having to pull shoes out of the line to attend the requests of the customer. In the makers eyes this eats at their profits. From a cobblers perspective this is what he is trained to do. The same applies to many shoes that are rejected for re-craft. If the factories can't "run them through" it cost them profits. I can't tell you how often we get shoes in the shop that were rejected for re-crafting by the factory that we successfully re-craft to the delight of the customer. 
I don't want to speak for (or represent) Alden. I can only state that based on the construction of the shoe I highly doubt that they can actually take them in.
Hope this makes sense.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

Anyone notice anything about those well loved Florsheim bullhide chukkas? ... Nobody?... They are not gemmed! Maybe that's why old Florsheims seem so indestructible. I look forward to seeing how they come out.

Nick, quick question about the re-sizing issue. Many people report resoled shoes feeling much smaller than they were before resoling. I myself had a pair of Alden shells resoled by a cobbler in NYC that came back feeling two widths tighter. I never really could wear them again. Since I'm guessing that the insole remains the same dimensions, where does the new tightness come from? And if it can happen accidentally, why not deliberately?


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

I just want to commend NickV for taking the time to answer all our questions about recrafting. I, for one, am going to use B. Nelson for my next recraft. G-Man17 has been lauding Nick's work for a while and G-Man's recommendation in addition to Nick's obvious attention to detail has swayed me. (plus B Nelson is cheaper and faster than the other alternatives :aportnoy


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## GentlemanGeorge (Dec 30, 2009)

well-kept said:


> Anyone notice anything about those well loved Florsheim bullhide chukkas? ... Nobody?... They are not gemmed! Maybe that's why old Florsheims seem so indestructible. I look forward to seeing how they come out.


Curious. What is "gemmed"?


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

GentlemanGeorge said:


> Curious. What is "gemmed"?


It's a method of welting that was the subject of a long and passionate debate not long ago. A custom bootmaker described it as an inferior method of attaching sole to upper, used by many manufacturers including the world's most respected, that would cause shoes to "fail". Many days and many pages were devoted to the discussion and it was perhaps a tempest in a teapot.

Old Florsheims are considered by some to be nearly indestructible, so I brought it up with a wink and a nod.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

well-kept said:


> Anyone notice anything about those well loved Florsheim bullhide chukkas? ... Nobody?... They are not gemmed! Maybe that's why old Florsheims seem so indestructible. I look forward to seeing how they come out.
> 
> Nick, quick question about the re-sizing issue. Many people report resoled shoes feeling much smaller than they were before resoling. I myself had a pair of Alden shells resoled by a cobbler in NYC that came back feeling two widths tighter. I never really could wear them again. Since I'm guessing that the insole remains the same dimensions, where does the new tightness come from? And if it can happen accidentally, why not deliberately?


You are correct in your thoughts about the insoles. Further, the uppers, linings and, welts at the sides and under the insole are stitched together. Therefore, when the sole is removed what you have left is essentially a shell that consists of the above components stitched together. That really can't change while lasts are in the shoe. Given the insoles and outer soles wont change size, what does? The uppers and liners for some people. They stretch out and become more flexable. By the time a shoe comes in for a re-craft the soles are thin (sometimes worn through) and flimsy. The uppers are broken in. When a new sole is applied (if done properly) the new leather is much more rigid and dense than the one that has been replaced. The shoe is pulls down as a result. This can make the shoe feel tighter. They should break in again with minimum wear.
The above concerns Goodyear welted shoes.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

Nick,
How long have you located in the McGraw Hill building?


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

mcarthur said:


> Nick,
> How long have you located in the McGraw Hill building?


We existed in the basement of the McGraw-Hill building for approx. 30 years. Last March we moved 2 doors east off of Lexington on 55th street.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

Nick V said:


> We existed in the basement of the McGraw-Hill building for approx. 30 years. Last March we moved 2 doors east off of Lexington on 55th street.


Good luck in your new location


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Orgetorix said:


> And here's the response I got:
> 
> As you can see, not extremely helpful.
> 
> Can any of you who have had shoes restored by Alden comment on my questions and the likelihood of having my requests accommodated? Ideas about how to note these requests for the workers doing the actual reconstruction? Am I just being entirely too picky?


It's a cultural thing. I have found that written instructions go mostly disregarded, no matter how brief and concise. Unfortunately, when you want a precise answer, you have to make a call and put someone on the spot. "Thank you for your help, and your name again please?" Bill


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