# Levi's 501 Jeans



## Lawson (Dec 2, 2007)

Many posters in the "What Are You Wearing?" thread list Levi's 501 jeans as part of their casual ensembles. AdamsSutherland described 501s as "the Trad Jean." Although some forum participants, myself included, are loath to sport jeans, these particular jeans have a classic American appeal. The same could be said of cowboy boots, yet I doubt we would categorize them as Trad. On the other hand, 501s have a timeless look, are made of a natural and durable fabric, and look decent with sport and knit shirts. When the jeans are not too baggy or immodestly snug, chinos and cords are not far superior as a casual pant.

Apparently jeans were not a part of the 1950s Ivy League look. Trad purists who only consider items worn during that era as Trad might have good reason to exclude 501s. If you subscribe to the notion that Trad evolves and that some classic items can be incorporated into the Trad canon when they evoke a nostalgia for the 1950s heyday, do 501s make the cut?

I would have posed this question in the Quick Answers thread, but the answer to this one may not be so easy.


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## Philip12 (Aug 24, 2005)

IMHO jeans are acceptable under certain strict conditions. Weekends only. At home. No fancy treatments. And they have to be 501s.
I used to wear them a lot, but it's mainly khakis for me now.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

My Working definition is Trad = Madison Avenue Style + Preppy
An OCBD, Levi's and blucher mocs is the quintessential 80's preppy look. Ergo, Levi's are Trad.

The standard caveats apply (i.e. who cares if its trad. Wear it if you think it looks cool and its appropriate. If not, don't. Blah, blah, blah, *****, moan, cry).


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

Lawson said:


> Many posters in the "What Are You Wearing?" thread list Levi's 501 jeans as part of their casual ensembles. AdamsSutherland described 501s as "the Trad Jean." Although some forum participants, myself included, are loath to sport jeans, these particular jeans have a classic American appeal. The same could be said of cowboy boots, yet I doubt we would categorize them as Trad. On the other hand, 501s have a timeless look, are made of a natural and durable fabric, and look decent with sport and knit shirts. When the jeans are not too baggy or immodestly snug, chinos and cords are not far superior as a casual pant.
> 
> Apparently jeans were not a part of the 1950s Ivy League look. Trad purists who only consider items worn during that era as Trad might have good reason to exclude 501s. If you subscribe to the notion that Trad evolves and that some classic items can be incorporated into the Trad canon when they evoke a nostalgia for the 1950s heyday, do 501s make the cut?
> 
> I would have posed this question in the Quick Answers thread, but the answer to this one may not be so easy.


How can the 1950s be deemed to have a monopoly on what is "trad" or otherwise. It is nonsense to suggest that this could happen.


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## yossarian (Apr 17, 2007)

Are 501s the button fly jeans? If so, I don't see how that would be trad.


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## WhoKnows (May 29, 2007)

I'm not a huge fan of jeans, but would agree that 501's are Trad.


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## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

501s are certainly more trad than most any other jeans out there. So, if it's gotta be jeans, it oughta be 501s.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Levi 501 Originals are at their most TRAD, when they sport a sharp crease ironed into the front of each leg! Otherwise, they are just another version of 'form fitting' AMJack! :icon_smile_wink:


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## cdcro (Jan 23, 2008)

501's are certainly american, and quite appropriate in a conservative traditional wardrobe in light of other denim choices, but I don't beleive any denim pant could be considered trad as we define it here. They are a working class garment that, unlike khakies, never rose above it's roots. IMHO clothing developed for poor, migrant miners can never be trad. Just my .02.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

I voted yes, though I find the question kind of silly. Maybe 501s aren't quintessential 50s Ivy League style, but they are classic American. I like the way they look, though I admit to wearing them with just a hint of irony.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> Levi 501 Originals are at their most TRAD, when they sport a sharp crease ironed into the front of each leg! Otherwise, they are just another version of 'form fitting' AMJack! :icon_smile_wink:


Creases in jeans are just wrong.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Good Old Sledge said:


> 501s are certainly more trad than most any other jeans out there...


Very true. But that doesn't mean they're _appropriate,_ either in most social situations or the (white collar) workplace. The older one gets, the more inappropriate they are.

I fondly recall 501s from college days, especially when they were worn by the fairer sex. They're the skinny cut ones, right? I much prefer the "relaxed fit" jeans now. Much better for my purpose of cool weather manual labor attire.

Scott


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## misterdonuts (Feb 15, 2008)

Lawson said:


> Apparently jeans were not a part of the 1950s Ivy League look. Trad purists who only consider items worn during that era as Trad might have good reason to exclude 501s.


Let us just say that you do not wear jeans but wear everything that conforms to the style preferred by Trad purists. Can you still be a Trad even if you are not an Ivy Leaguer? Or, is this about emulating an Ivy Leaguer who were matriculated in the 1950's? If you are an Ivy Leaguer, then are you necessarily a Trad? Quite honestly, I am completely mystified by this Trad subculture. Is there some sort of ideology to which Trads subscribe? Forgive an ignorant non-American.


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## zignatius (Oct 8, 2004)

misterdonuts said:


> Let us just say that you do not wear jeans but wear everything that conforms to the style preferred by Trad purists. Can you still be a Trad even if you are not an Ivy Leaguer? Or, is this about emulating an Ivy Leaguer who were matriculated in the 1950's? If you are an Ivy Leaguer, then are you necessarily a Trad? Quite honestly, I am completely mystified by this Trad subculture. Is there some sort of ideology to which Trads subscribe? Forgive an ignorant non-American.


You have every reason to be confused. Some here like to point to a window of time and emulate a trad zenith. Some riff from the trad spirit, evolve its genome. Others don't care so much, but it's probably safe to say we all have an appreciation for madras, tweed, khakis, repp ties and paisley, polos, shetland wool crewnecks, boat shoes, bow ties, oxford cloth button downs, flannel wool, soft shoulders, etc.

We're here for different reasons. This community brings many perspectives, which span demographics, geography, body shape, levels of boredom, and discretionary income. You're not alone, misterdonuts. We're all a little bit mystified at times. I wear 501s. I'm wearing a pair right now. With buttons.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

zignatius said:


> You have every reason to be confused. Some here like to point to a window of time and emulate a trad zenith. Some riff from the trad spirit, evolve its genome. Others don't care so much, but it's probably safe to say we all have an appreciation for madras, tweed, khakis, repp ties and paisley, polos, shetland wool crewnecks, boat shoes, bow ties, oxford cloth button downs, flannel wool, soft shoulders, etc.
> 
> We're here for different reasons. This community brings many perspectives, which span demographics, geography, body shape, levels of boredom, and discretionary income. You're not alone, misterdonuts. We're all a little bit mystified at times. I wear 501s. I'm wearing a pair right now. With buttons.


The "Big Tent" of Trad.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

zignatius said:


> You have every reason to be confused. Some here like to point to a window of time and emulate a trad zenith. Some riff from the trad spirit, evolve its genome. Others don't care so much, but it's probably safe to say we all have an appreciation for madras, tweed, khakis, repp ties and paisley, polos, shetland wool crewnecks, boat shoes, bow ties, oxford cloth button downs, flannel wool, soft shoulders, etc.
> 
> We're here for different reasons. This community brings many perspectives, which span demographics, geography, body shape, levels of boredom, and discretionary income. You're not alone, misterdonuts. We're all a little bit mystified at times. I wear 501s. I'm wearing a pair right now. With buttons.


Zignatius is right. Don't start with metaphysics. Just start with the basics.
Trad = Preppy + Madison Avenue Style
Preppy = {Khaki Pants, Polo shirts in bright colors, oxford cloth buttondowns (OCBD's) in plain colors, madras, boat shoes, penny loafers, cloth and nylon belts and watchstraps}
Madison Avenue Style = {Sack suits, navy blazers, and tweeds, OCBD's as dress shirts, striped repp ties, shell cordovan shoes, brogues, tassel loafers}
Glom that and you can mix in other styles, Anglo, Americana, surfer, Italian as you like.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

*Another Verbal Donneybrook...*



wnh said:


> I voted yes, though I find the question kind of silly. Maybe 501s aren't quintessential 50s Ivy League style, but they are classic American. I like the way they look, though *I admit to wearing them with just a hint of irony*.


+1; Omit irony.:icon_smile:

hbs


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## JAGMAJ (Feb 10, 2005)

I wouldn't exactly call 501s "trad," but they are classic American jeans. For my part, though, I think the 505s have a better fit for those of us who are a little older. Jeans are still good for fall days at the house and more casual outings.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

Jeans are just jeans. A polo is just a polo. There is no "Trad" jean or polo or whatever. If you are a self-described "Trad" and you happen to wear/like 501s, that's great. I own 501s. I like them. But, I don't pretend to think that I have them because they're "Trad". 

Questions like this belong in the "Ask a Quick Question..." thread. Otherwise, it's a rehash of 10 or more old threads.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

If the situation doesn't specifically call for a suit or dress pants, jeans are always my choice of pants. Have been for many years and probably, given that I'm looking at 60 my next birthday, always will be. Having said that, I've never owned a pair of 501's. 

When I did wear Levis I wore 505's because of the way they fit, although there was a period in my life when bell bottom jeans carried the day. Long time ago though. Now I wear Lee regular fit jeans exclusively, again because of the way they fit me; better than the way the 505's fit.

For casual wear I don't think anything beats a well broken in pair of jeans. Throw on a blazer or tweed sport coat and they are great for the comedy club or dinner at a casual restaurant or bar. I realize that isn't everyone's cup of tea, but it works for some of us. 

I just realized that I'm sitting here typing this in a pair of khakis and an OCBD. Better go change. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

hbs midwest said:


> +1; Omit irony.:icon_smile:
> 
> hbs


Yeah, I don't do that to mine either... just straight off the clothesline.

ps. Trad: it's the *buttons* what makes 'em.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

cdcro said:


> IMHO clothing developed for poor, migrant miners can never be trad.


WTF?!


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Main Entry: chi·me·ra 
Pronunciation: \kī-ˈmir-ə, kə-\ 
Function: noun 
Etymology: Latin chimaera, from Greek chimaira she-goat, chimera; akin to Old Norse gymbr yearling ewe, Greek cheimōn winter - more at hibernate

2: an illusion or fabrication of the mind; especially : an unrealizable dream <a fancy, a chimera in my brain, troubles me in my prayer - John Donne>

Trad is a chimera, an animating ideal, a road and not a destination. Don't worry about rules--get a feeling for the look and do your own thing.

Levi's 501s look correct with trad gear; so do lots of other jeans.

But lots of jeans will look totally off. If you're really into this ivy/trad/prep thing, you'll develop an eye for what works and stop worrying about checklists, reference books, opinions of "Internet Celebrities," etc. (though all of these things can be interesting and fun to ponder and argue)

This site works best, in my opinion, as a place to bounce ideas off of each other, not as a governing body ruling on what is or isn't "trad."


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## cdcro (Jan 23, 2008)

Untilted said:


> WTF?!


https://www.levistrauss.com/Downloads/History_Levi_Strauss_Biography.pdf


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

C'mon guys, I know most of you have a dozen pairs of jeans. I've seen your closets.

DD


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## Lawson (Dec 2, 2007)

Brownshoe said:


> Main Entry: chi·me·ra
> Pronunciation: \kī-ˈmir-ə, kə-\
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Latin chimaera, from Greek chimaira she-goat, chimera; akin to Old Norse gymbr yearling ewe, Greek cheimōn winter - more at hibernate
> ...


I want a consistent style. "American classic" is too diverse to be one style. If I wear an OCBD, chinos or cords, and Chelsea boots one day and a plain white T-shirt, 501s, and cowboy boots the next, my style looks unstable. You can, however, seem faithful to the northeastern Ivy/prep school look if you wear 501s occasionally while making sure everything else in your ensemble is Trad.

Perhaps the "wear only one" guideline for GTH clothes works for _tasteful_ non-Trad items. Combine your potentially non-Trad New Balance 992s with nantucket red or pale blue shorts rather than grungy cargo shorts. Another rule of thumb for consistency is not to wear the non-Trad stuff too often. The only times I wish I have jeans are when it rains on weekends and when I am at home improvement stores or the like. I may not feel disloyal or gauche if I reserve 501s for those seldom occasions, mix them with Trad items, and tuck my shirt in.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

Lawson said:


> I want a consistent style. "American classic" is too diverse to be one style. If I wear an OCBD, chinos or cords, and Chelsea boots one day and a plain white T-shirt, 501s, and cowboy boots the next, my style looks unstable. You can, however, seem faithful to the northeastern Ivy/prep school look if you wear 501s occasionally while making sure everything else in your ensemble is Trad.


If this were a stab at an April Fools post, it wouldn't be nearly so sad.

Come on now. Wear what you like. Consistent style? Who gives a crap? I've heard it said that everybody is too concerned with how they look to care about how you look. Run with that idea. It'll do you a world of good.

The more I think about it, the more I'd be willing to bet you're a troll. Just earnest enough, but completely ridiculous. That or you're just an uptight undergrad with a stick up his...


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

I guess 501s are "trad," or at the very least iconic. That told, I have always hated the fit on 501s and can't stand the button fly...so I guess that makes be an iconoclast.:icon_smile_big:


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

TradTeacher said:


> Questions like this belong in the "Ask a Quick Question..." thread. Otherwise, it's a rehash of 10 or more old threads.


There's an old college professor joke about a student who goes back to his old school to talk to his old professor. There, the student discovers that the professor is preparing to hand out the same final exam that the student took 20 years before and says I can't believe nothing has changed in the field in all this time. The professor replies "Oh no. The questions are all the same, its the answers that are different."

Seven months ago, I started a thread on 501 repro's that was bounced out of the forum , I guess, for being insufficiently "trad". Now, 70% of poll respondents say "yes", not counting those who think its so boringly obvious that 501's go with preppy clothes that its not worth responding.

Its an ongoing conversation, new people come, old people go, opinions change, etc. If you think people aren't addressing fresh new questions frequently enough, the best way to change that would be to ask some.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Lawson said:


> Combine your potentially non-Trad New Balance 992s with nantucket red or pale blue shorts rather than grungy cargo shorts.


Exactly wrong. Running shoes only look good when they are travelling 5+mph. Conceivably, grungy cargo shorts have been thrown over running shorts on your way home from the track.


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## B R A N D X® (Mar 15, 2008)

Is no one else bothered by how low waisted the 501's are?


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## B R A N D X® (Mar 15, 2008)

AldenPyle said:


> .......
> 
> Its an ongoing conversation, new people come, old people go, opinions change, etc. If you think people aren't addressing fresh new questions frequently enough, the best way to change that would be to ask some.


Brilliantly put.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

B R A N D X® said:


> Is no one else bothered by how low waisted the 501's are?


Just depends on your body type. They look a little funny on me with a long-sleeved shirt, so I either roll the sleeves up or throw a sweater on top. But different body proportions are going to elicit different looks.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

They're a good, reliable timeless sort of jeans... so I guess that's kind of "trad". The same jean style looks as good in 2007 as it did in 1957. You can't say the same for different washes or cuts or something like black jeans or jeans with weird zipper pockets or fancy embroidery.

(Like the OP, with that caveat - not too baggy, not too snug.)


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## B R A N D X® (Mar 15, 2008)

wnh said:


> Just depends on your body type. They look a little funny on me with a long-sleeved shirt, so I either roll the sleeves up or throw a sweater on top. But different body proportions are going to elicit different looks.


I'm sure you're right about that. I have to have higher waists.....one of the reasons I prefer trad cut Khaki's to jeans for casual attire, but I do have a pair of Timberland jeans that are pretty high waisted and fit *okay*.

501's have a great style if you can "pull them off". Even when I was 150 pounds they never looked right on me. But that was 20 years ago!:icon_smile_big:


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Oh man...it's 2008, isn't it?


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## Lawson (Dec 2, 2007)

wnh said:


> Come on now. Wear what you like. Consistent style? Who gives a crap? I've heard it said that everybody is too concerned with how they look to care about how you look. Run with that idea. It'll do you a world of good.


I am more confident when what I wear expresses my values -- modesty, elegance, stability, loyalty, cleanliness. Anything with my name on it has to meet my approval. Clothes are a big deal to me because they are on my body almost all day. They should be things I take pride in and enjoy.



AldenPyle said:


> Exactly wrong. Running shoes only look good when they are travelling 5+mph. Conceivably, grungy cargo shorts have been thrown over running shorts on your way home from the track.


New Balance sneakers are not my cup of tea as everyday footwear anymore, but the neo preppy/fraternity crowd adores them.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

Lawson said:


> I am more confident when what I wear expresses my values -- modesty, elegance, stability, loyalty, cleanliness. Anything with my name on it has to meet my approval. Clothes are a big deal to me because they are on my body almost all day. They should be things I take pride in and enjoy.


And a pair of jeans is going to jeopardize all of that. Well, at least you're irrational.


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## Lawson (Dec 2, 2007)

wnh said:


> And a pair of jeans is going to jeopardize all of that. Well, at least you're irrational.


Not if I'm doing yard work, shopping at Lowe's, or in need of pants more durable and disposable than chinos, cords, or wool pants on a soggy day. There are probably a few scenarios I'm forgetting.


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## dbgrate (Dec 4, 2006)

wnh...well said!


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Brownshoe said:


> Main Entry: chi·me·ra
> Pronunciation: \kī-ˈmir-ə, kə-\
> Function: noun
> Etymology: Latin chimaera, from Greek chimaira she-goat, chimera; akin to Old Norse gymbr yearling ewe, Greek cheimōn winter - more at hibernate
> ...


You are a beacon of reason in a sea of inanity.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

^Agreed. We should sticky that post right now.


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## B R A N D X® (Mar 15, 2008)

Brownshoe said:


> ......
> This site works best, in my opinion, as a place to bounce ideas off of each other, not as a governing body ruling on what is or isn't "trad."


And there you have it.


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## Bird Shooter (Apr 1, 2008)

B R A N D X® said:


> Is no one else bothered by how low waisted the 501's are?


 The 501 cut has changed a lot over the years. The 1947 501, for instance, has an 11" front rise. If I remember rightly, the back rise is around 12".


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> There's an old college professor joke about a student who goes back to his old school to talk to his old professor. There, the student discovers that the professor is preparing to hand out the same final exam that the student took 20 years before and says I can't believe nothing has changed in the field in all this time. The professor replies "Oh no. The questions are all the same, its the answers that are different."
> 
> Seven months ago, I started a thread on 501 repro's that was bounced out of the forum , I guess, for being insufficiently "trad". Now, 70% of poll respondents say "yes", not counting those who think its so boringly obvious that 501's go with preppy clothes that its not worth responding.
> 
> Its an ongoing conversation, new people come, old people go, opinions change, etc. If you think people aren't addressing fresh new questions frequently enough, the best way to change that would be to ask some.


This and your other posts in this thread are great, AP. I also liked Brownshoe's response as well.



B R A N D X® said:


> Is no one else bothered by how low waisted the 501's are?


I have always had a major problem with jeans in that I have a long rise. I have settled on the Lands End ringspun denims in a waist size 2" larger, as they sit lower, more towards my hips, which sort of drives me nuts as I like to wear pants on my waist. I have to stop pulling them up all the time! I like the LEs because they are plain (I have a lighter pair and a new darker pair) and have no pocket design.

I agree that jeans do have their place - esp. on the weekends for errands and chores and playing with the kids.



Lawson said:


> New Balance sneakers are not my cup of tea as everyday footwear anymore, but the neo preppy/fraternity crowd adores them.


True Trad heresy! :icon_smile_wink: As far as I know, NBs are the only sneaker still Made in USA!


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

Lawson said:


> Not if I'm doing yard work, shopping at Lowe's, or in need of pants more durable and disposable than chinos, cords, or wool pants on a soggy day. There are probably a few scenarios I'm forgetting.


The point is that you're concerned that a certain pair of jeans is going to make your style look 'inconsistent'. Common sense will tell you if any given pair of jeans looks okay with the rest of what you're wearing. Problem is, common sense apparently isn't as common as I had previously thought.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

TradTeacher said:


> ^Agreed. We should sticky that post right now.


In light of the "Trad, Streetwear, and Denim Forum" of yesterday, I think we should lobby to have this forum renamed, with the text from Brownshoe's post.

Andy's Chimera Trad Forum: A Place To Bounce Ideas Off Of Each Other, Not As A Governing Body Ruling On What Is Or Isn't "Trad."


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## J Jarvis (Mar 27, 2008)

*Levis 501 Jeans*

501s are classic and not to be ridiculed. I'm a 60-year old English prof, and I own four pair and wear them to work with Tweed jackets, sweaters and nice boots. Think of the Redford look in "Day of the Condor"--classy but casual and the look made a statement. Interestingly enough, that look still works today. Keep them 501s.


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## dbgrate (Dec 4, 2006)

Just thinking the "Redford look" owes a lot more to Redford than to the 501s....


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## Lawson (Dec 2, 2007)

wnh said:


> The point is that you're concerned that a certain pair of jeans is going to make your style look 'inconsistent'. Common sense will tell you if any given pair of jeans looks okay with the rest of what you're wearing. Problem is, common sense apparently isn't as common as I had previously thought.


The reason I am hesitant to wear them often is that 501s are on the borderline of fitting the casual yet polished Ivy/preppy look. There are strong arguments on both sides. The decision is not so cut and dry in my mind. Since jeans have an incredibly relaxed look and feel, I will save them for the most relaxed public settings, like when my clothes might take a beating.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

TMMKC said:


> I guess 501s are "trad," or at the very least iconic. That told, I have always hated the fit on 501s and can't stand the button fly...so I guess that makes be an iconoclast.:icon_smile_big:


My sentiments exactly, kind sir, and apparently my position as well.

Cordially,
Adrian Quay


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

J Jarvis said:


> Think of the Redford look in "Day of the Condor"--classy but casual and the look made a statement. Interestingly enough, that look still works today.


That would be "_Three Days of the Condor_".

https://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=00011frn7vz0.jpg

And I agree with everything you said except for the fact that the jeans must be 501s. I think any basic, no frills jean will look the same. My preference is the Lee Regular Fit, but Levis 505s are a good choice also.

Cruiser


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