# Abercrombie and Fitch trivia



## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Something I recently discovered that surprised me, is that the old A and F sold Crockett and Jones shoes. I wonder when that ended? When the store closed or before?


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

My favorite Ambercrombie and Fitch trivia is that they outfitted the Rough Riders.


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

Mine is that they kept an open campfire in their store as part of their visual merchandising, and hired a trained expert to keep watch over it,


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

How did such a cool company go *SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO* wrong?


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

I recall Robert Ruark essays about shopping at A&F for no sh*t Africa safari gear, and knew TR and Hemingway outfitted there.

Do you think that whichever bunch of trendies bought the name even _knew _that?


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## iclypso (Jan 10, 2009)

They used to be well known for their fly fishing equipment, as well.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

and they were featured in the Rock Hudson film, "Man's Favorite Sport."

Course, this was all before the company closed and the name was sold.


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## cumberlandpeal (May 12, 2006)

The Madison Avenue store had a gun room as well as a fishing shop. To cap things off, literally, they had a casting pool on the roof so one could try out their cane rods. I goofed off many an afternoon casting a 6 ft. 6wt. (for such was the style in the 1970s) with level line into that pool as the crowds walked up and down the avenue below. Many in hats. The gun room was beyond my means but I did look. 

Abercrombies sold what they called a "safari cloth" pant that was the ultimate Khaki. This was in the late 60s. Amazing how a retailer can have it just right but not have the financial staying power to last through some radical turns in fashion.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

Not only did they sell Guns and fishing gear but they had a good sport clothing line. A&F also sold Burbury clasic trench coats.
When we got married our steak knives came from there and they are still going strong. A great even if you were just looking.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

Interesting that the Rhino logo of the old A&F has now been taken over by "Ecko Clothing."


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

AF outfitted Lindbergh for his famous transatlantic flight.


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## iclypso (Jan 10, 2009)

cumberlandpeal said:


> I goofed off many an afternoon casting a 6 ft. 6wt. (for such was the style in the 1970s) with level line into that pool as the crowds walked up and down the avenue below.


6ft 6wt with level line? How far could you cast with that?


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

A&F outfitted Sean William Scott and many of the other actors in the American Pie heptalogy.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> A&F outfitted Sean William Scott and many of the other actors in the American Pie heptalogy.


Haha. +1


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## Bermuda (Aug 16, 2009)

what was something real has becoming something fake I'm afraid, gentleman


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Memphis88 said:


> How did such a cool company go *SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO* wrong?


 The cool company didn't go wrong. It went out of business. Leslie Wexler of Limited fame, he who brings you Victoria's Secret, and the late grate lamented Structure stores for men, bought the name for a nominal sum, probably like $1.00. It crashed and burned and then morphed into the Banana Republic/J Crew clone it is today.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

David V said:


> Course, this was all before the company closed and the name was sold.


Exactly, the old A&F has nothing to do with the new one. The A&F name was purchased/licensed post-bankruptcy of the old store. They are NOT the same animal. The same thing happened to the Pakcard Bell name for computers in the 1990s.

This is not your grandfather's A&F.


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## cumberlandpeal (May 12, 2006)

The casting pool at A&F was only about ten ft wide by forty feet long. Using a 1970 vintage bamboo six foot rod with six weight line with level line a reasonably good caster can probably throw 60 feet w/out wind, perhaps more. I haven't used bamboo in many years but as traditional as they are they were not particularly well built for distance casting, expecially not the shorter rods that were favored for smaller streams found in the NE and thus carried by A&F. Plus level lines don't much help in loading the liens. Plus bamboo was quite slow.

Great feature that casting rod. People try rods in parking lots now.


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

One of the greatest American knife makers, Bob Loveless, got his start at A&F, when he tried to buy a Randall and was told there was a 2 year wait, he began making knives for them. If they would have had one in stock, we might have missed out on an American treasure.:icon_smile:


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Brooksfan said:


> The cool company didn't go wrong. It went out of business. Leslie Wexler of Limited fame, he who brings you Victoria's Secret, and the late grate lamented Structure stores for men, bought the name for a nominal sum, probably like $1.00. It crashed and burned and then morphed into the Banana Republic/J Crew clone it is today.


I never knew that's what happened. Please don't compare them to J Crew, though. I rather like J Crew.


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## Hobson (Mar 13, 2007)

I've always found it interesting that the current incarnation is using a name that has virtually no historic meaning to their current target market. One would have to be in his late forties to remember the A&F of old. I remember what is probably an attempt at reviving the name after bankruptcy. They had at least one store at the South Street Seaport and carried things like massive teddy bears, assorted expensive items, and a limited line of clothing. They only were around in the late eighties, early nineties, but I don't think they were owned by the Limted then. I could be wrong.


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## parkave (Sep 10, 2009)

What is the closest modern store to the old A+F? Orvis?


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Memphis88 said:


> I never knew that's what happened. Please don't compare them to J Crew, though. I rather like J Crew.


JCrew though is another store that is not what it once was...maybe not in terms of the style they sell, but certainly in the quality. When I was in college (10 years ago) their stuff was expensive, but worth it, and you could wear it for 10 years. Now, a few seasons and your stuff is falling apart.

How much do you think the rise of outlet shopping has contributed? JCrew started making inferior quality stuff and saw people flock to buy it at their outlets, now they lower quality in stores as they see it won't change how people shop there (with the exception of internet style nerds like us, who care how, and where, what we wear is made).

A&F's recent line is inspired by the old (at least last since I shopped there in HS), but the quality is not even close (I have an old safari shirt, and an old flannel that I can compare to what I wore in HS)


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## Hobson (Mar 13, 2007)

In terms of J. Crew, they really have changed over the years. In the early eighties they were very preppy and a lot of items competed directly with LL Bean and Lands End. In the early nineties they redefined themselves. No longer a seller of tradtitional clothing, a market that was not expanding at a very rapid rate, they instead became a seller of clothing to a particular age group, specifically about 18-28. This meant that they were constantly changing merchandise to adapt to whatever that demographic wanted at any particular time. This can radically change the merchandise they needed to carry. At this point, at least to a degree, they seemed to have stabilized into a version of their original incarnation. However, I would no longer group them together with LL Bean and Lands End.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Brooksfan said:


> The cool company didn't go wrong. It went out of business. Leslie Wexler of Limited fame, he who brings you Victoria's Secret, and the late grate lamented Structure stores for men, bought the name for a nominal sum, probably like $1.00. It crashed and burned and then morphed into the Banana Republic/J Crew clone it is today.


Who is lamenting the fall of Structure? the bizzaro-world trad forum?



Epaminondas said:


> This is not your grandfather's A&F.


unless you happen to be one of A&F CEO Mike Jeffries grandchildren

rgrossicone,
I'm not sure I agree with anything you are saying about J.Crew.
Everything about the company seems to have dramatically improved over the past 5 years.
Their quality is just as good, if not a step above, other major retailers, and they seem to be making a point of targeting people like us, as opposed to 16-year old mall kids.

Really, this thread is sad, and true, but a bit dated.
The new A&F isn't all that trendy/popular/etc anymore and is well into it's decline phase.
I imagine that the name will unfortunately be remembered as a trendy clothing zeitgeist of the late 90s-early 00s more than it's time as a great outfitter.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

I have to agree with rgrossicone on J.Crew. In the late '90s, they were a fairly dependable source for tasteful, slightly trendy clothes. They were a little expensive, but you got what you paid for. A&F was trendier, but similarly durable. I still have several pieces from J. Crew and Abercrombie that have held up (and still fit). 

About five years ago, the bottom fell out of both brands and they became largely moribund, stuck with indifferent quality at inflated prices. J. Crew nearly put itself out of business before Mickey Drexler came into the picture, and while A&F didn't start faltering until a little later, the writing was on the wall that things were going downhill.

J. Crew's outlets saved them sales-wise in the interim years, and the full-price stores started carrying things at the outlet quality, but for full mark-up.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Knives/Fishinng*

Gentlemen

I have a couple silent check Hardy lightweight, with the A&F know. Alo, agree about Randall. I purchased my first one while in the military, and have been fortunate to get a A&F Randal, little cheaper.
A&F has a great history, will not lose this but agree about the stuff now going on.
Nice day


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

I remember when Abercrombie & Fitch was _the_ store for high school and college students circa 1998 or 1999.

That's why the store really became popular again, and it has drifted astray since about that time. It used to be an exclusive brand -- one that wasn't at every mall, but that's no longer the case. I still go in there every now and again to check out the tee-shirts, but I never buy anything.

I don't remember J. Crew until they started going preppy around 2003 or 2004. Before that, they seem to have been more of a generic store along the lines of Bananna Republic.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Hobson said:


> I've always found it interesting that the current incarnation is using a name that has virtually no historic meaning to their current target market. One would have to be in his late forties to remember the A&F of old. I remember what is probably an attempt at reviving the name after bankruptcy. They had at least one store at the South Street Seaport and carried things like massive teddy bears, assorted expensive items, and a limited line of clothing. They only were around in the late eighties, early nineties, but I don't think they were owned by the Limted then. I could be wrong.


I remember both the original on Madison (went in there a few times in my early twenties to see how the other half lived) and the A&F reincarnation in the Prudential Building next to the Seaport. Actually, my wife and I enjoyed shopping in that store. She picked up a couple of kilts there. It might have been opened in the mid-eighties.

Back to the original, I remember seeing my first muskets, pith helmets and naugahyde rhino's there. :icon_smile:


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## HL Poling and Sons (Mar 24, 2006)

When I was in college, I worked at the second incarnation of Abercrombie, at their Georgetown Park store.

After the original company went belly up (did anyone else call it Abergrabbie and Snatch?), A&F was bought by the Texan sporting good chain Oshman's. They began to expand the business, opening a handful of stores in higher-end shopping districts and malls, sometimes under the name "The Best of Abercrombie and Fitch."

When I worked there, we carried a beautiful assortment of men's and women's clothing, both dress and sportswear, most of which would meet the internet definition of "trad", but with decided English and American hunting/sporting vibe. So, alongside the khakis (heavy twill, lapped side seams, flapped coin pockets) and navy flannel blazers, we'd also have beautiful, heavy cavalry twills and Harris tweed shooting jackets. 

Oshman's made sure that they stayed true to the spirit of the original Abercrombie. We also carried safari gear with jackets and pants made by the old Willis and Geiger and genuine cork pith helmets.

Oshman's realized that the modern sportsmen weren't going on safari or other equipment-laden expeditions (or, at least, there weren't enough of the ones who still were to support a business) but, rather, were keeping fit closer to home, in their home gyms. With that in mind, we carried enormous amounts of home exercise equiptment: rowing/erg machines, treadmills, stationary bicycles and, as this was the early-to-mid eighties, Gravity Guidance (tm!) systems which included boots that had hooks that would attach to overhead bars from which you would hang, upside down, and do abdominal crunches. I can't count the number of sales pitches I gave while hanging upside down, but I had great abs in those days!

A few mini-shuffleboard tables (great to while away the time on a slow Sunday afternoon in the store) and an assortment of gifts, books, and other sporting-themed items rounded out the merchandise offerings.

I'm not sure when those stores closed up. Of course, they were rather pale reflections of the original, but, sadly, the original had gone the way of the dodo and reflections were the only viable option...if only for a time.

I'm happy to say that I have a pair of elephant guns and a pith helmet of my grandparents as well as one of the giant rhinos, a hippo (neither of which are made of naugahyde, KenR!), and other odds and ends that my parents collected, all from the original store.

Sad to see what the name has come to represent.


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## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

HL Poling and Sons said:


> When I was in college, I worked at the second incarnation of Abercrombie, at their Georgetown Park store.
> 
> After the original company went belly up (did anyone else call it Abergrabbie and Snatch?), A&F was bought by the Texan sporting good chain Oshman's. They began to expand the business, opening a handful of stores in higher-end shopping districts and malls, sometimes under the name "The Best of Abercrombie and Fitch."
> 
> ...


The second incarnation also had shops in New Orleans and suburban Philadelphia, and had many nice items, indeed. The fall-off in mass taste is depressing.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Who is lamenting the fall of Structure? the bizzaro-world trad forum?
> 
> unless you happen to be one of A&F CEO Mike Jeffries grandchildren
> 
> ...


I can't speak to the quality of J Crew in the distant past, but of the stuff I've bought from them in the past couple of years everything has held up well. I would definitely say they are moving in a good direction with the development of their Men's stores and the quality and often classic products they are selling that are made by other companies.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

parkave said:


> What is the closest modern store to the old A+F? Orvis?


That would get my vote.

The original A&F had a store at Phipps Plaza that may have dated from 1970. One half was clothes, the other half was rather gifty accessories and some sporting goods (and an eight-foot-tall leather stuffed giraffe). When they closed down and moved across the street to Lenox Square, it reopened as the store that featured underaged models dreamily forgetting to wear the company's product.


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## sclemmons (Mar 4, 2006)

Miket61 said:


> That would get my vote.
> 
> The original A&F had a store at Phipps Plaza that may have dated from 1970. One half was clothes, the other half was rather gifty accessories and some sporting goods (and an eight-foot-tall leather stuffed giraffe). When they closed down and moved across the street to Lenox Square, it reopened as the store that featured underaged models dreamily forgetting to wear the company's product.


The original A+F was a department store for sportsmen with some high end and hard to find gear. They sold elephant hair bracelets at the check out counter for $10-20 or so. Nothing like that today. Gun related stores: Beretta. Purdy. Holland & Holland. Closest approximation for what I need is David Morgan in Seattle. Made the bull whips for Indiana Jones.


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

rgrossicone said:


> JCrew though is another store that is not what it once was...maybe not in terms of the style they sell, but certainly in the quality. When I was in college (10 years ago) their stuff was expensive, but worth it, and you could wear it for 10 years. Now, a few seasons and your stuff is falling apart.
> 
> How much do you think the rise of outlet shopping has contributed? JCrew started making inferior quality stuff and saw people flock to buy it at their outlets, now they lower quality in stores as they see it won't change how people shop there (with the exception of internet style nerds like us, who care how, and where, what we wear is made).
> 
> A&F's recent line is inspired by the old (at least last since I shopped there in HS), but the quality is not even close (I have an old safari shirt, and an old flannel that I can compare to what I wore in HS)


We still make safari shirts and bush jackets. Customers have brought in tattered Willis and Geiger bush jackets and safari shirt/jackets for us to copy. ( Willis & Geiger made those garments for A&F.) Anyone in the neighborhood is invited to stop up and see them.
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
www.chipp2.com/blog/


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm proud to say I have a carriage clock with a moonphase window from the old Abercrombie & Fitch sitting on my desk. Bought it in the Eighties.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Just wanted to pick up on one small thing. If I am not mistaken both the 1st and second A&F carried leather animals. I saw a photo taken inside of Paul Stewart in 1986 that featured a leather animal.
My local shop had one of the animals for decoration. I see Orvis carries them now. What I did not know but now suspect is that they came from this company https://www.omersa.co.uk/


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## HL Poling and Sons (Mar 24, 2006)

^ Yes, Omersa was the source.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

sclemmons said:


> The original A+F was a department store for sportsmen with some high end and hard to find gear. They sold elephant hair bracelets at the check out counter for $10-20 or so. Nothing like that today. Gun related stores: Beretta. Purdy. Holland & Holland. Closest approximation for what I need is David Morgan in Seattle. Made the bull whips for Indiana Jones.


You might find this shop in Atlanta interesting:

https://www.londontradingcompany.com/index.html

They carry the clothing lines of Beretta, Purdy, and Holland & Holland. Gun accessories, but I don't think they carry the guns themselves.


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

parkave said:


> What is the closest modern store to the old A+F? Orvis?


That's what I thought the first time I went into an Orvis store. Orvis tilts a lot more heavily towards equipment than clothes as compared to the old A&F mall stores did, but its as close as you get these days.

I remember when "the change" ocurred: for a number of years A&F outlets in malls still had the old antler chandeliers and woodwork, plus the thumping of techno music and stacks of t-shirts. It was a sad sight.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

Music issues aside, the 1990-1998 A&F stores were distinctive and gave a modicum of history. The early version of the current prototype showed some promise, then came the shutters and the dim lighting....it's a little creepy now.


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

I worked at A & F in 1984, at the store on Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills. It was still somewhat like the glory days. Upstairs was the gun shop (in Beverly Hills!). Downstairs was the sporting goods department, where I worked. I got hired as the skiing expert, having re-entered society after having been a ski bum in Jackson Hole.

Lots of famous people came in for I think 3 reasons: it was in Beverly Hills, we sold nice stuff, and we had a parking lot in the back so people could slip in and out unnoticed.

One time Bo and John Derek came in. This was about 5 years after the movie 10. She and I walked around alone for about half and hour, while I showed her all the gizmos we had. She hopped on a rowing machine to try it out. John came over and started massaging her chest, shoulder, and armpit, saying that she should keep her elbows up to get a better chest workout.

I've got a crazy story about OJ Simpson and his wife Nicole, but it doesn't seem right to tell it in light of what happened to her.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Edwin Ek said:


> I've got a crazy story about OJ Simpson and his wife Nicole, but it doesn't seem right to tell it in light of what happened to her.


Oh man, why mention it then!!!!!! Tell:devil:


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

IMO, quality descends from J Crew to Orvis to AF. 

Maybe quality isn't exactly the issue, but none of my Orvis clothes are all that great. I have a couple pair of trousers that don't hold their shape all that well, and a jacket that is just ok. 

I am typing this in an old pair of J Crew khaki shorts: my wife thrifted them for $1 more than 12 years ago, and they are still great--flat front, on-seam pockets, slightly faded and fraying at the pocket edges--just the way I like them. Can't fault the quality here. On my recent US trip I visited the J Crew shops at Woodfield mall, and in Manhatten. They were clearing out similar items, but the Chicago price was significantly less than NY. I bought khakis in nantucket red, and off-white. I think I paid $22 each and should have bought more at that price. I esp. liked the sale sign on the boxers: $18 a pair, or the special price of 2 for $36. If I remember correctly, they had loads of vintage military cut chinos priced in the $20s. The quality of these new items seems high, except for the obvious decline in the buttons.

I have dirty bucks from J Crew. They cost c. $50, and are well worth it. I have a pair of shoes in exactly the same cut and style, but with something like oxblood patent leather. They have a military look, but don't work as well with the hard leather versus suede.

I realise this is not what the OP intended, but it is where at least some of the conversation had gone.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

HL Poling and Sons said:


> When I was in college, I worked at the second incarnation of Abercrombie, at their Georgetown Park store.
> 
> After the original company went belly up (did anyone else call it Abergrabbie and Snatch?), A&F was bought by the Texan sporting good chain Oshman's. They began to expand the business, opening a handful of stores in higher-end shopping districts and malls, sometimes under the name "The Best of Abercrombie and Fitch."
> 
> ...


Great story!

Some background, from the ever-so-helpful Strategic Management by Michael A. Hitt:


> In 1969, inventory shrinkage (from bookkeeping errors, internal theft, and shoplifting) totaled $1 million (up from between $600000 and $700000 the previous year). This problem contributed to the retailer's pretax loss for the year. Between 1970 and 1976, A&F continued to incur financial losses.
> 
> In the fiscal year ending January, 1976, A&F incurred a net loss of $1 million on sales of $23.8 million. The loss followed annual deficits ranging from $287000 to $540000 every year since 1970. A&F's best year had been in 1968 when it reported pretax earnings of $866000 on sales of $28 million. Managers began to search for a possible buyer of the firm. No one was seriously interested. In August 1976, A&F filed for bankruptcy. It held a sale to liquidate its inventory of $8.5 million. A sign in the retailer's Madison Avenue store read: "They say we're stuffy so we're moving the stuff out at tremendous reductions on all floors." After the sale, the stores were closed. A&F's difficulties were attributed to competition from mass marketers (eg, Hermann's World of Sporting Goods) who sold discounted merchandise, to the lack of professional managers and leadership turnover (the retailer had three different CEOs in the preceding six years), to high overhead costs, and to fewer customers who could afford its exotic, high-priced items.
> 
> In 1978, Oshman's Sporting Goods of Houston acquired A&F's name, trademark, and mailing list for $1.5 million. A&F's slogan was changed from "The Finest Sporting Goods Store in the World" to "The Adventure Goes On." The new owners had studied A&F's business model for two years. According to its president, Jerry L. Nanna, "We examined the original business, took it apart and retained the good qualities. We also retained some of the legendary old products that Abercrombie had and expanded their variety. But we dropped most of the tailored clothing that proved to be a drain." The owners believed that they could bring A&F up-to-date to the styles of the 1980s. The chain expanded to 12 stores; sales of $20 million were expected in 1982. In 1988, The Limited acquired 25 A&F stores and its catalog business for $47 million from Oshman's.


Some ads from the Texas-based Abercrombie & Fitch:

1982:

























1984:
















(Unrelated note: Grapevine Footwear seems to have a stash of these. No mention of country of origin, though.)









1985:

















1986:


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