# Shell Cordovan creases



## Jeffiejeffjeff (Sep 29, 2006)

Hello all!

I'm new to this forum--this is my first post, in fact. But I've been lurking for a while and I really enjoy reading the discussions.

I'm a longtime Alden wearer/fan, but I'm relatively new to shell cordovan--I purchased my first pair earlier this year. One of my pet peeves with _all _shoes is the creases that develop in the toe area. I understand that this is an unavoidable part of life, but some well-worn shells I've seen look more than just "broken-in"--they look like they were run over by a truck!

My question is this: do the creases in shell cordovan shoes recede over time--say, four or five years down the road? And is there anything I can do to minimize the creasing, other than storing my shells in shoe trees (which I do, of course)? Lately, I've been gently massaging the shoes while they are in their trees and the creases have gone down a bit. But as soon as I put them back on, the creases pop right back up.

Another question: am I being too anal about this? Are the horrible creases just part of shell cordovan's "character" and should they be displayed proudly?

Apart from this issue, I'm a big fan of this wonderful leather. Plus, I get a big kick out of asking my co-workers who have horses, "guess what animal these shoes were made out of?" :icon_smile_big:

I look forward to your responses.


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

Hi Jeff, Welcome to the trad forum.

If by crease you mean a sharp line crease, I have had that in only one of my shell and that is the longwing blucher. I think that having the double thickness of leather on the sides of the shoe causes a sharper crease to develop over the toe area. My other shells that are of more basic design have a broader crease that is more common and expected. The line crease on the longwings used to bother me some, but I have stopped worrying about it. If you have shoes with moccassin style stitching around the toe, I think the crease is more focused by the stitches and spreads out over the toe. Hope this helps.


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## Larchmont (Jan 2, 2005)

Welcome.

I am a big fan of shell cordovan and prefer the creases on shell to the tiny lines that calfskin develops. I would think that the creases would intensify as the years go by. My Brooks Brothers tassel cordo's are 13 years old and do look like they have been run over. But, they have a patina that only shell can have. Those who may not know may think that they are corrected grain leather or even plastic. Those who do know can spot them from across the room.

Wear them, creases and all, in good health.


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

*Cordovan creases*

Jeffiejeffjeffjeffjeff,

in my experience the heavy creases can be symptomatic of having a shoe that is slightly on the wide side. Do your cordos with the creases fit the same as your other shoes, in calf? are they the same size? there is always some variation from maker to maker, pair to pair, and last to last so what might fit from Alden on one last might be a tad bigger, overall, on another last, for example, the barrie. And if you bought 'em from somebody like Brooks who tends to only carry the D width, then they might not be exactly the right size.

in any case, i doubt that you'll ever have a problem from the crease, unless it is really excessive. but I notice that you do describe them as "horrible" so perhaps they're really bad.

Markus


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

I consider my shells to have 'rolls' rather than 'creases'?

What type are you sporting?

I think the fit question raises a good one.


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## Jeffiejeffjeff (Sep 29, 2006)

Thanks for the quick replies, guys!

By "creases," I actually mean those annoying bumps and ripples that appear above the toe area when you bend the shoe--usually after the first time you try them on! All leather does this and it's impossible to keep the shoes looking showroom-fresh, but softer, glove-like leather seems to show this less. I'm wearing my Napa leather Doc Marten's today and the bumps aren't noticable at all. The thicker calf leather that Alden uses shows the creases...er, bumps, more. And the even thicker horse hide shows them more still, which is what is bugging me.

The shells in question have a handstitched toe and are built on the Plaza last--they fit just like my Aberdeen-last calfskins, so I don't think excessive width is the problem. Again, it's just that shell cordovan seems to be unusually vulnerable to the formation of bumps and ripples around the flex points.

The extra structural-integrity that the handstitching provides seems to dissapate some of the bump-formation. Now, there _are_ some tiny, sharp "creases" around the stitching, which look awesome and add real character to the shoes--that's not what is bugging me. Just those annoying bumps.

I take excellent care of these shells (shoe-treeing them, brushing them after every use, rotating them with several other pairs, etc.) and the "bumps and ripples" are *nowhere* near as bad as some I've seen. I would like to eventually increase my Alden shell collection to include chukkas and other plain-toe styles, but I'm worried about owning (and paying for!) something that I know is so exquisite, but looks like it survived the trenches in WWI!


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

I think the bumps are the 'sine qua non' of shell. I revel in 'em and seek 'em out in others.


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## Pangloss (May 13, 2021)

A picture is worth a thousand words...


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Pangloss said:


> A picture is worth a thousand words...


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OT0kf7qV2...Bjc/sB6o_lVpW10/s1600/Alden+Whiskey+LHS+6.jpg
I Googled one for you.


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

TKI67 said:


> http://[URL]http://4.bp.blogspot.co...Bjc/sB6o_lVpW10/s1600/Alden+Whiskey+LHS+6.jpg
> I Googled one for you.


That's about what an older pair that I owned looked like before I let them go when I had to add full orthotics. I had them and wore them regularly for about ten years and once the "rolls" occurred, they never got worse.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

fishertw said:


> That's about what an older pair that I owned looked like before I let them go when I had to add full orthotics. I had them and wore them regularly for about ten years and once the "rolls" occurred, they never got worse.


I had a pair of Alden for Brooks unlined in No. 8 with similar rolls. After over thirty years of 4-6 days per week the cobbler said another resoling was dubious and they had developed or suffered a tiny hole on the inside in the middle of the side of my heel. When the new pair of CXL factory seconds arrived the old guys went to Goodwill. I hope that from there they will serve someone well for a few more years. Other than a pink OCBD and a black bow tie they were the end of the old Brooks Brothers in my wardrobe.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

TKI67 said:


> I had a pair of Alden for Brooks unlined in No. 8 with similar rolls. After over thirty years of 4-6 days per week the cobbler said another resoling was dubious and they had developed or suffered a tiny hole on the inside in the middle of the side of my heel. When the new pair of CXL factory seconds arrived the old guys went to Goodwill. I hope that from there they will serve someone well for a few more years. Other than a pink OCBD and a black bow tie they were the end of the old Brooks Brothers in my wardrobe.


It's only been perhaps 14 years but I'm still wearing my whiskey shell Alden made for BB unlined LHS's. They are perhaps the most comfortable pair of LHS's on my shoe racks.


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

I think the OP's concern about ripples is an aesthetic one. I don't consider the ripples bad at all, I consider it an attractive feature of shell cordovan shoes. As they say in software development, it's a feature, not a bug!

All leather bends to some extent at the inflection point, at the part of the vamp below the toecap, but with shells, they form those bumps and ripples that are quite lovely, especially when,, with patina, they acquire a slightly olive tint in parts. In a similar fashion, I have a pair of calfskin shoes that has aged beautifully, with dark, almost black patches here and there that add to its beauty. Imperfections in things are to be admired. They enhance one's sense of the aesthetic value of those things. After all, creases and ripples are signs that the shoes have lived a long life and possess a history that we should love and treasure.

The Japanese understood this principle deeply. I have mentioned Junichiro Tanizaki's little book, _In Praise of Shadows_, in earlier posts, as a good example of the pleasures and beauty of imperfections.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

I hope OP got this sorted out sometime in the last 15 years.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

smmrfld said:


> I hope OP got this sorted out sometime in the last 15 years.


You do wonder how a Starting Member happened onto this ancient thread and made their first post here, but since they wanted a photo it seemed welcoming to oblige them. I hope @Pangloss joins in the fun of more current threads, but it is kind of nice when people use their search capabilities to dig up old resources.


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

I agree, TKI. But with smmrfld, I too hope the OP decided on his true feelings about ripples in shell cordovans, and so forth some time in the last decade plus. 

I have read in various blogs (maybe even here in AAAC) that there are people who prefer calfskin to shell cordovan, for both practical and aesthetic reasons. And calfskin usually costs less although some of the C&J calfskin shoes sold by Ben Silver seem to be way up there in pricing.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

drpeter said:


> I agree, TKI. But with smmrfld, I too hope the OP decided on his true feelings about ripples in shell cordovans, and so forth some time in the last decade plus.
> 
> I have read in various blogs (maybe even here in AAAC) that there are people who prefer calfskin to shell cordovan, for both practical and aesthetic reasons. And calfskin usually costs less although some of the C&J calfskin shoes sold by Ben Silver seem to be way up there in pricing.


I consider shell cordovan shoes a real bargain. IMHO one of the greatest advantages of shell cordovan shoes is their durability, that seems almost everlasting! I'm my service I have a pair of AE Leeds in #8 shell cordovan that were purchase back in 1984. I can't say that any of my calfskin shoes have shown that measure of durability.


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

Great story about the AE Leeds (I am a proud Wisconsinite, and cheesehead, of course, LOL).

Question: Can you still wear those shoes, Eagle? I ask because our feet continue to get larger (darnit) almost throughout our lives.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree that when you factor in a useful life of thirty years or more cordovan shoes can offer a low cost per wearing. If you are able to front the initial outlay a pair is a true joy. I feel that way about my cordovan tassel loafers. However, as I recently shared elsewhere, I got some Chromexcel leisure handsewns. Chromexcel is almost like cordovan in many respects, even though it is not horse shell. It has that tendency to roll rather than crinkle and takes well to brushing without polish as the optimal maintenance, just as cordovan does.


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## Pangloss (May 13, 2021)

The reason I asked about a pictures because the way JeffJeffJeffJeffJeff describes them they sound a lot worse than the picture that TK167 posted. And I agree, it's one of aesthetics and to me, totally normal. Here's a picture of my recently purchased shell cordovan Carmina 923s after a few days of wear. I see the rolls but I don't see creases. You have the toe box and then you have the pressure from one's instep on the vamp as well as the flexing of the foot that's going to cause this.
As for how I resurrected This Thread after 15 years, thank Google. 🤷🏻‍♂️


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Pangloss said:


> The reason I asked about a pictures because the way JeffJeffJeffJeffJeff describes them they sound a lot worse than the picture that TK167 posted. And I agree, it's one of aesthetics and to me, totally normal. Here's a picture of my recently purchased shell cordovan Carmina 923s after a few days of wear. I see the rolls but I don't see creases. You have the toe box and then you have the pressure from one's instep on the vamp as well as the flexing of the foot that's going to cause this.
> As for how I resurrected This Thread after 15 years, thank Google. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Very nice shoes. Thank you, Google. It's nice to have you here, @Pangloss.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is a shot of CXL for comparative purposes.


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## Pangloss (May 13, 2021)

TKI67 said:


> Very nice shoes. Thank you, Google. It's nice to have you here, @Pangloss.


Thanks. Couple of funny stories worth sharing regarding Carmina shoes. I like nice shoes but frankly they are a little expensive, but I had been perusing their website for a little while and one day when I was going to my office I took a slightly different route to get to the trolley. As I walked to the stop there was a flea market type table with some things on it that I kind of just ignored, but then a pair of shoes caught my eye. At first I just walked by but I thought I'd take a second look and I saw that brand Carmina, and I looked further and they were my size. After a quick try-on, they fit perfect. I asked the guy how much? and he said twenty five bucks would do it!
Practically brand-new Carmina shoes (they were newer looking than the picture)


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

drpeter said:


> Great story about the AE Leeds (I am a proud Wisconsinite, and cheesehead, of course, LOL).
> 
> Question: Can you still wear those shoes, Eagle? I ask because our feet continue to get larger (darnit) almost throughout our lives.


Indeed I do still wear those Leeds on an occasional basis, perhaps six to ten times a year. The last time I sent them in for rebuilding AE advised that that would be the last time they could rebuild them, as the soft leather lining of the shoes was beginning to break down and for some reason, they can not fix that. However, from the outside they look great and I'm hoping the new Double Oak soles will last forever. At this point I am pretty sure they will outlast me. LOL.


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> At this point I am pretty sure they will outlast me


Wonderful! But we want you to last for a long time too!


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