# Michael Jackson is dead!



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Just heard the news that pop legend . May God rest his soul!


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

Thanks for the memories, Michael. Rest in peace.


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

He was our lifetime's Mozart. RIP.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Michael was a gifted performer, but I don't know if I would compare him with Mozart. 

Michael was a marketing genius before his demons overtook him, though and a great singer, dancer as well as a good song-writer.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I was stunned. I really expected that one aspect of his later freakishness was that he would live a ridiculously long life.

Unlike Cass Elliott and Josephine Baker, he didn't get that one, final London concert to remind the world how talented he was.


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

Wow, rest in peace. There was a good and bad in him, like all of us, and it's unfortunate that his life was forcably plastered to the outside world.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

I'm 25, so I've never known a world without Michael Jackson. I had all of his albums, all of the videos, and have old home movies of my brother and I performing to his music in my parents living room. It's really a sad feeling knowing that he's gone. It's a testament to his massive popularity and talent that in spite of his very spotty recent history, we are able to acknowledge what an icon he was instead of what he later became. He was surely up there with the Beatles and Elvis in terms of influence on a generation.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

nolan50410 said:


> I'm 25, so I've never known a world without Michael Jackson. I had all of his albums, all of the videos, and have old home movies of my brother and I performing to his music in my parents living room. It's really a sad feeling knowing that he's gone. It's a testament to his massive popularity and talent that in spite of his very spotty recent history, we are able to acknowledge what an icon he was instead of what he later became. He was surely up there with the Beatles and Elvis in terms of influence on a generation.


I am splitting hairs but I don't think he was quite up there in terms of influence on a generation as The Beatles or Elvis.

But it's my personal belief that a small part, perhaps a very small part, of The Beatles and Elvis was *when* they arrived too.

But your point is well taken Michael Jackson was a very talented fellow who paid one heck of a price for being born and bred as an act. I think of how incredible he looked on the cover of Off The Wall. What a good looking kid with everything in the world going for him. But then the plastic surgeries started,....

Every single one of us pays a price, a toll if you will, to live with who we've become as a result of our experiences. (We're all the same like that)

I would have listened to anything he recorded.


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

My first thought was he committed suicide. Between the bankruptcy, scandals, and just MJ being MJ, I figured there was a self-loathing, scared and unfathomably conflicted person.

For better or worse, his travails are over. May he find serenity and certainty in death he lacked in life.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

I'll always remember him from the cute kid on the cover of Thriller and Off-The-Wall. He was a pop icon and certainly captured the zeitgeist of the early to mid 80's. He made MTV and in turn MTV made him. 

Its really quite sad when we compare his last years to those 25 years ago. RIP.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

I'll never forget trying to moonwalk and dancing to Thriller as a kid. RIP, Michael.


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Michael was a gifted performer, but I don't know if I would compare him with Mozart.
> 
> Michael was a marketing genius before his demons overtook him, though and a great singer, dancer as well as a good song-writer.


Gifted? How about one of the greatest countertenors ever regardless of genre? One of the greatest songwriters and dancers.....

Let's see - prolific child prodigies who revolutionized music during their respective eras. Both were very mature musically at such a young age but showed remarkable immaturity in life off the stage as adults. Both had complicated relationships with overbearing fathers who exploited and were jealous of their sons' extraordinary talents.

Opera was never the same after Mozart and both the rock concert and the music video were never the same after Michael Jackson.

Whenever I hear a Michael Jackson song or a Mozart aria, I can't think of any ways one can improve them - each one is perfect for what it is.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

A genius has passed on. May his spirit find peace and may those who were touched by his work remember him always.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

This is really a shock. 

He was one of the biggest and most influential entertainers of the rock and roll (i.e.: current) musical era. 

It is really quite sad -- this upcoming series of tours he had planned would have put him back in the black.


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Lebewohl said:


> Gifted? How about one of the greatest countertenors ever regardless of genre? One of the greatest songwriters and dancers.....
> 
> Let's see - prolific child prodigies who revolutionized music during their respective eras. Both were very mature musically at such a young age but showed remarkable immaturity in life off the stage as adults. Both had complicated relationships with overbearing fathers who exploited and were jealous of their sons' extraordinary talents.
> 
> ...


Spot on.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Back in the 80's I was an avid fan of his,I also enjoyed listening to his music and watching his videos,There'll never be another King of Pop,god rest his soul.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

Thriller is still the top selling album of all time 27 years later. Seven top 10 singles on an album with only 9 tracks. To think that he wasn't as influential as the Beatles or Elvis is a little crazy. Give credit where credit is due. Who was more popular from the late 70s through all of the 80s and into the early 90s then Michael Jackson?


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Lebewohl said:


> Whenever I hear a Michael Jackson song or a Mozart aria, I can't think of any ways one can improve them


I can: turn the radio off before I hear more.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

Mozart isn't remembered for his skill as a performer, and I doubt Michael Jackson will be rememebred for his compositions.

The comparison doesn't work as well as you think it does.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> I can: turn the radio off before I hear more.


Boooooooooo


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

I was mildly amused when I heard he was dead, but really annoyed when I learned that NBC had taken off 3D Rock and The Office, to do a Dateline special about him.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Though he was certifiable, you can't deny his talent. RIP

So...who gets custody of Blanket and the other Jackson progeny? Billy Jean? Oh, that's right...she wasn't his lover. :icon_smile_big:


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

nolan50410 said:


> Thriller is still the top selling album of all time 27 years later. Seven top 10 singles on an album with only 9 tracks. To think that he wasn't as influential as the Beatles or Elvis is a little crazy. Give credit where credit is due. Who was more popular from the late 70s through all of the 80s and into the early 90s then Michael Jackson?


He's up there in influence, but looking back at his work he was hardley as prolific. 
I mean _Thriller_ is a _great_ album (so's _off the wall_, but not nearly as groundbreaking or original), but beyond _Bad_ he had so middling at best work.

It's weird, I'm too young to _remember the time_ when Michael Jackson the singer was bigger than Michael Jackson the pop culture phenomena.

I think his influence, on other artists and our culture, may be bigger than his body of work would make you think, but I could be wrong.

Anyways rip


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

beherethen said:


> I was mildly amused when I heard he was dead


Kicking a person when they have passed is the ultimate in class. Nice job.


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## Avers (Feb 28, 2006)

Too bad he didn't put out any new music in the last decade...

What will happen to his rights to The Beatles catalogue?

RIP


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I think his videos were very creative and they were fun to watch especially in the 90's video such as Black or White,Jam and Keep It In The Closet.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Avers said:


> Too bad he didn't put out any new music in the last decade...
> 
> What will happen to his rights to The Beatles catalogue?
> 
> RIP


Maybe they'll sell it on Ebay?


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Interesting video on youtube I came across this morning.


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

If I'm not mistaken, I thought he collateralized a loan or recording with the Beatles works. And for some reason, I believe it was to Sony.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

It's a very sad day, especially for American entertainment and culture. I wish he had at least begun or completed his "comeback". He was a true icon of excellence...

*hangs baby out of window in memorial*


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

mrkleen said:


> Kicking a person when they have passed is the ultimate in class. Nice job.


He "passed" not because of a terrorist or some tragic illness, but because of too much demerol. Unlike some poor junkie with an overdose dying in a public washroom or alley, he died in a luxury home with his "health tonic" administered by a doctor because he was afraid of needles.

https://www.tmz.com/

Boo-hoo


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I have to side with Mr. Kleen on this one. While Jackson was controversial and I don't condone everything he did, he's gone. His eccentricities should not be held up as a role model, but there is a way to do that without delighting in his death.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

beherethen said:


> He "passed" not because of a terrorist or some tragic illness, but because of too much demerol. Unlike some poor junkie with an overdose dying in a public washroom or alley, he died in a luxury home with his "health tonic" administered by a doctor because he was afraid of needles.
> 
> https://www.tmz.com/
> 
> Boo-hoo


There is no justifying the fact that you are a xxxxxx.

Boo-hoo.

Edited epithet out of post Forsbergacct2000


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

*Deeply* *distressed that you feel so as your opinion means so much to me.
*

BOTH OF YOU, PLEASE STOP THIS NOW!!!! forsbergacct2000

I don't want to put anyone on time out.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

nolan50410 said:


> *To think that he wasn't as influential as the Beatles or Elvis is a little crazy*. Give credit where credit is due.


Then color me crazy, because he wasn't and that's a flat-out fact.

I and the crowd around me went slightly bonkers in Cleveland in the summer of '66 as we watched The Beatles perform live. And when the music stopped we bonkered on because what the Beatles brought went beyond the music and changed American teenage-hood forever. Michael Jackson, he had good moves, he was on beat and he wrote danceable tunes. That's something, but it's not that much.​


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Every generation seems to be moved a bit more by the singers and entertainers who were popular when they were in high school. I was between Michael and the Beatles and loved them both. Since I'm just a couple years older than Michael, I was always a bit envious of his success, but enjoyed his music a lot.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Has this been reported in the media?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

jamgood said:


> Has this been reported in the media?


Yes for the past few days.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Preu Pummel said:


> It's a very sad day, especially for American entertainment and culture. I wish he had at least begun or completed his "comeback". He was a true icon of excellence...
> 
> *hangs baby out of window in memorial*


It was to be his THIS IS IT Tour,Get It? This is It? not realizing it was IT for him.


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

PedanticTurkey said:


> Mozart isn't remembered for his skill as a performer, and I doubt Michael Jackson will be rememebred for his compositions.
> 
> The comparison doesn't work as well as you think it does.


I'd suggest that you brush up on your musical history. Mozart was a prodigy on the piano and violin. He was considered to be the greatest improviser of his time.

As for MJ's songs that he penned:

"Don't Stop Till You Get Enough"
"Billie Jean"
"Beat It"

Just about every song on subsequent albums, too. Prominent artists continue to record his songs.

I think he'll stand the test of time.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Lebewohl said:


> ...Mozart...was considered to be the greatest improviser of his time...


That would have been something to hear...


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Lebewohl said:


> I'd suggest that you brush up on your musical history. Mozart was a prodigy on the piano and violin. He was considered to be the greatest improviser of his time.
> 
> As for MJ's songs that he penned:
> 
> ...


I also believe Michael will stand the test of time. We'll see if musicians are playing Billie Jean as often as the Turkish March, though, but since none of us will probably be alive 100 years from now, we probably will never know for sure.

But Michael was a singer/dancer and Mozart was a pianist/ keyboard player. They both have their place in history, although Mozart will still be Mozart 100 years from now. Michael might be Bing Crosby (hugely successful in his time, but not well known to many people 50 years from now probably.)


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

Yeah, I'll bet Mozart would've just turned green with envy if he'd lived to read the lyrics to "Billie Jean" or "Beat it."

Where's the skeptical smiley face?


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

Peak and Pine said:


> Then color me crazy, because he wasn't and that's a flat-out fact.
> 
> I and the crowd around me went slightly bonkers in Cleveland in the summer of '66 as we watched The Beatles perform live. And when the music stopped we bonkered on because what the Beatles brought went beyond the music and changed American teenage-hood forever. Michael Jackson, he had good moves, he was on beat and he wrote danceable tunes. That's something, but it's not that much.​


I think your are just biased because the Beatles were part of "your time". Ask someone who was a teenager in '86 and I'm sure you'd get a slightly different opinion then the one you have provided. Just because you're an old fart doesn't mean everything was better when you were young.


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## SlowE30 (Mar 18, 2008)

N Korea wants to nuke us, Iran wants to kill its own people AND nuke us, the "patriot" act is still in full force, our house just passed what the WSJ says could be the biggest tax increase ever, and all I hear about in the news is Michael Jackson (and Sanford's p3nis).

Honestly, I'm a lot more upset that that young Iranian woman was killed in the street protesting for fair elections, than a very disturbed musician who lost his life to (presumably) a bad combo of drugs, no matter how talented he was. Who was shocked? Shoot, I'm more saddened that Billy Mays just died. Does anybody else see it this way? If not, sorry to carp on your thread and carry on.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

PedanticTurkey said:


> Yeah, I'll bet Mozart would've just turned green with envy if he'd lived to read the lyrics to "Billie Jean" or "Beat it."
> 
> Where's the skeptical smiley face?


Yeah, bet he would have turned down the money from 100 million+ copies sold and the title of "most popular album in the history of recorded music"


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

They had differing motivations in the two centuries. I have a feeling Mozart would have had the talent to chase the money had musicians been able to make fortunes in the late 1700s.


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> They had differing motivations in the two centuries. I have a feeling Mozart would have had the talent to chase the money had musicians been able to make fortunes in the late 1700s.


In Mozart's day, "classical" music was the popular genre of music in his day. Not so different than today. As a classically trained musician, I've been exposed to a lot of crappy classical music from Mozart's time that many of you most likely have never heard. Composers like him saw themselves as artisans rather than artists. Composers didn't see themselves as artists until Beethoven. Mozart was very much trying to make a buck in his day but he was a terrible businessman and he spent money foolishly.

The difference I see is that Michael Jackson, with much help from others, found ways to capitalize on his early fame.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

He did have the "debt" thing in common with Mozart. They were both very talented. 

Because many musicians are trained classically, Mozart will still be around for a long time. 

Michael is very good and I loved his stuff. Billie Jean was one of my favorite songs every to perform. (I played keyboards, sang harmony, and played the really cool baseline - that band did not use a bass player.)


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

That is pure nonsense. Mozart's audience was just a _bit_ more sophisticated, like his compositions. Comparing his body of work to the lyrics of a couple mediocre 1980s pop songs Jackson got the writing credit on is just bizarre.

Michael Jackson is famous because he was a great performer. That's it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
+1. P/T you are spot-on with your assessment!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PedanticTurkey said:


> Michael Jackson is famous because he was a great performer. That's it.


I don't know if I would go so far as to say "That's it" because Jackson was also a very shrewd businessman, but I do agree that his fame is wrapped up almost entirely in his showmanship. He could be an electrifying performer on stage and in music videos with few equals.

Having said that, his compositions are relatively lightweight with only a couple or three being well known to the general public outside his core fan base. He sold a lot of CDs, but in reality his catalogue pales in comparison to other contemporary composers such as Lennon-McCartney, Bob Dylan, and Carole King; or Hank Williams one generation removed. Jackson's compositions simply aren't in their league.

I don't mean to take anything away from his showmanship. I never saw him live but some of the dance moves he executed in his videos are nothing short of amazing.

Cruiser


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

I meant to say that performing was the extent of his _greatness_.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> I don't know if I would go so far as to say "That's it" because Jackson was also a very shrewd businessman, but I do agree that his fame is wrapped up almost entirely in his showmanship. He could be an electrifying performer on stage and in music videos with few equals.
> 
> Having said that, his compositions are relatively lightweight with only a couple or three being well known to the general public outside his core fan base. He sold a lot of CDs, but in reality his catalogue pales in comparison to other contemporary composers such as Lennon-McCartney, Bob Dylan, and Carole King; or Hank Williams one generation removed. Jackson's compositions simply aren't in their league.
> 
> ...


+1. I liked what he did in the 70's and 80's. Unfortunately what he did to himself the last 15 -20 years was nothing short of an unmitigated disaster.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

What's this world coming to? Now I hear Billy Mays (of annoying infomercial fame) is dead. If I were Ron Popeil or that Shamwow guy, I'd be laying low and taking extra vitamins.:icon_smile_big:


Celebrity Death Week is starting to look like Celebrity Death Month. I'm glad I'm not famous (except in my own mind).


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

But who hasn't heard of TMMKC????


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> Having said that, his compositions are relatively lightweight with only a couple or three being well known to the general public outside his core fan base.


Not sure where you came up with the "a couple or three" of his songs being well known to the general public - but MJ had 13 worldwide number one singles and has sold 1 billion albums over the course of his career.

He is known for a bit more than 3 songs.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

Did someone just compare Michael Jackson to Mozart?

Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough.........stupidity that is.

Karl


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Cruiser,

Jackson a shrew businessman? Is that why Colony Capital bought Neverland Ranch?

https://www.colonyinc.com/chairmanscornerblog_jun09.htm#062609

Karl


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

mrkleen said:


> Not sure where you came up with the "a couple or three" of his songs being well known to the general public - but MJ had 13 worldwide number one singles and has sold 1 billion albums over the course of his career.
> 
> He is known for a bit more than 3 songs.


I said that he sold a lot of CDs, and he obviously did. Heck, I bought _Thriller_; but after you get past _Billie Jean, Beat It, and Thriller _how many of his songs are readily identifiable to the general public who aren't MJ fans?

I was talking about his legacy as a songwriter. Elvis sold a ton of albums and even decades after his death continues to sell CDs, but as far as I know he composed no song of note. MJ sold CDs on the basis of his performance rather than on his song writing. How many other performers have had hits with MJ penned songs?

Contrast that with Lennon-McCartney. Just about everybody recognizes their compositions even by simply hearing the melodies on Muzak.

And I doubt that there are many adults, at least in the U.S., that can't sing along with at least one Bob Dylan or Carole King penned song even if they aren't aware that Dylan or King wrote them. Just look at how many of Dylan's and King's songs were big hits when performed by other people, some more than once. They practically wrote the soundtrack to the 60's, and many of those songs continue to be re-recorded by artists today.

Most people that instantly recognize _All Along the Watchtower_ by Jimmie Hendrix have no earthly idea that Bob Dylan wrote it. Just about every woman seems to know _You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman_ by Aretha Franklin, but most are unaware that Carole King wrote it.

For example, my 21 year old daughter is a big MJ fan yet I still bet that she knows more Lennon-McCartney, Dylan, and King songs than MJ songs without even really being aware of who those folks are. Just recently she was singing along with _Forever Young_ by Rod Stewart with absolutely no knowledge of the fact that Dylan wrote that song about 45 years ago.

Will people still be recording MJ songs 40 years from now? For that matter how many big name performers record them now?

The aforementioned _Forever Young_ (certainly not one of Dylan's biggest songs) has been recorded by dozens of popular performers over the years from Joan Baez to John Tesh to AC/DC to Tiffany, and even the City of Prague Philharmonic. _Billie Jean _has really had no success beyond Jackson's version.

Like I said, it's more about Michael Jackson's ability to perform the song rather than his songwriting. And I don't mean to take anything away from his showmanship. He's one of the best to ever live. He wrote a few good songs but beyond that his songwriting ability simply doesn't rank with the giants of the industry. _Louie Louie _is one of the most popular songs of the past 50 years, but it isn't great songwriting. There is a difference.

Cruiser


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Did anybody have their favorite videos?


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Howard said:


> Did anybody have their favorite videos?


The long form "smooth criminal" video was great.


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

PedanticTurkey said:


> That is pure nonsense. Mozart's audience was just a _bit_ more sophisticated, like his compositions. Comparing his body of work to the lyrics of a couple mediocre 1980s pop songs Jackson got the writing credit on is just bizarre.
> 
> Michael Jackson is famous because he was a great performer. That's it.


You've got to be kidding me. The Vienna audiences were one of the most conservative and close minded in Europe. Mozart found early success there because of the novelty of being a child prodigy. Once that wore off, so did his success. Both Vienna audiences and his patrons didn't understand his mid to late works and his success in Vienna waned. The more sophisticated audiences of Prague and Paris were the only ones who really appreciated his complex mature works and this only happened in the last years of his life.

You have to understand that the opera house at that time was akin to today's rock concert venues. People talked loudly and ate food throughout an opera, only interrupting to express their displeasure or appreciation for a big aria.

Musically, I'd go far as to say that it was the worst period of classical music. With the exception of Mozart and Haydn, most music of this period was overly simplified melody over bass kind of deals, a complete backlash against the complexity of JS Bach and GF Handel. There's a reason why you don't hear JC and CPE Bach, Sammartini, Salieri or the Stamitz brothers on the radio anymore - it's pure drivel! Yet they were bigger successes than Mozart then. It really reminds me of popular music in the '80's - completely devoid of musical complexity or emotional depth.

Look, I have no problems if you believe MJ's music to be mediocre. If, however, you show a lack of knowledge of music history, I feel compelled to speak up. Also, I NEVER stated that MJ was Mozart's equal, I was just expressing MJ's importance to the music of his time and the striking resemblances between their careers.

I am, however, grateful for this thread though. I might be able to ride it to my 100th post! :icon_smile_wink:


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

The fact that you take those gross overgeneralizations and offer them as corrections shows you don't know as much as you think you do.

But even if we take your assertions as true, what's your point--that Michael Jackson's failing was that his music was too sophisticated for his audience...? That's a laugh! If anything, he was master of the lowest common denominator. Not exactly the parallel you're looking for, is it?


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

PedanticTurkey said:


> The fact that you take those gross overgeneralizations and offer them as corrections shows you don't know as much as you think you do.
> 
> But even if we take your assertions as true, what's your point--that Michael Jackson's failing was that his music was too sophisticated for his audience...? That's a laugh! If anything, he was master of the lowest common denominator. Not exactly the parallel you're looking for, is it?


My point in the previous post was that Mozart's audience wasn't as sophisticated as you've been led to believe. That's it.


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

Karl89 said:


> Cruiser,
> 
> Jackson a shrew businessman? Is that why Colony Capital bought Neverland Ranch?
> 
> ...


His business acumen was surely surpassed by his "love" of children. His money woes came from that as we all know.


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

His death overshadowed the passing of two greater talents: Farah Fawcett and Billy Mays. His death even overshadowed the coup in Honduras, and the fact that our president sides with Castro and Chavez!

The person most thankful for Jackson's death is the governor of South Carolina.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

Lebewohl said:


> My point in the previous post was that Mozart's audience wasn't as sophisticated as you've been led to believe. That's it.


There's two kinds of audiences--the one that's there in the hall listening and the one you're writing for. In composition class they always tell you to make them one and the same, but you don't have to.

See what I mean?


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> I said the he sold a lot of CDs, and he obviously did. Heck, I bought _Thriller_; but after you get past _Billie Jean, Beat It, and Thriller _how many of his songs are readily identifiable to the general public who aren't MJ fans?


In terms of his songwriting, I completely agree.

As for the statement above, I completely disagree. The average person on the street in nearly any country in the world would recognize 10 or 15 Michael Jackson songs....far more than anything written by Bob Dylan, Carol King or nearly anyone else (Beatles and Elvis excluded). The fact that Jackson didnt write all of them himself is immaterial to their popularity.


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

Beau said:


> His death overshadowed the passing of two greater talents: Farah Fawcett and Billy Mays. His death even overshadowed the coup in Honduras, and the fact that our president sides with Castro and Chavez!
> 
> The person most thankful for Jackson's death is the governor of South Carolina.


If you change "talents" with "human beings", I totally agree with you.

Yes, Sanford totally deserved the Gary Condit Award if there ever was one!


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

PedanticTurkey said:


> There's two kinds of audiences--the one that's there in the hall listening and the one you're writing for. In composition class they always tell you to make them one and the same, but you don't have to.
> 
> See what I mean?


Mozart had two different kinds of audiences basically - aristocrats and opera goers. I always got the impression that he didn't really change the music he wrote for his audience. He would use certain genres or styles for different commissions but he would write the music he wanted to.

I always wonder what would have happened if he stayed in Paris where he surely would have made more money. Regardless, I am grateful for what he left us.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> I said the he sold a lot of CDs, and he obviously did. Heck, I bought _Thriller_; but after you get past _Billie Jean, Beat It, and Thriller _how many of his songs are readily identifiable to the general public who aren't MJ fans?
> 
> I was talking about his legacy as a songwriter. Elvis sold a ton of albums and even decades after his death continues to sell CDs, but as far as I know he composed no song of note. MJ sold CDs on the basis of his performance rather than on his song writing. How many other performers have had hits with MJ penned songs?
> 
> ...


Actually, the real words to "Louie Louie" aren't all that bad. They were so garbled that a lot of people made up words loaded with a lot of sexual innuendos. If you know the real words and listen to what the Kingsmen's singer is singing, there is nothing risque about that song. I agree that the melody is rather simple, though, although the chord structure does include a minor (not standard 3 chord.)


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

mrkleen said:


> The average person on the street in nearly any country in the world would recognize 10 or 15 Michael Jackson songs....far more than anything written by Bob Dylan, Carol King or nearly anyone else (Beatles and Elvis excluded).


OK, here's 15 songs written by Carole King and the artist who recorded them.

Will You Love Me Tomorrow - Shirelles
Take Good Care of My Baby - Bobby Vee
Some Kind of Wonderful - The Drifters
Every Breath I Take - Gene Pitney
The Locomotion - Little Eva
Go Away Little Girl - Steve Lawrence
Crying in the Rain - The Everly Brothers
Don't Say Nothing Bad (about my baby) - The Cookies
Hey Girl - Freddie Scott
One Fine Day - The Chiffons
Up On the Roof - The Drifters
I'm Into Something Good - Herman's Hermits
Don't Bring Me Down - The Animals
You Make Me Feel Like a Natural Woman - Aretha Franklin
Time Don't Run Out On Me - Anne Murray
Wasn't Born to Follow - The Byrds

OK, that's 16 songs, sorry. My point is that Carole King could have stopped here and MJ wouldn't be able to hold a candle to her when it comes to songwriting. I ask you to name 15 MJ written songs, or even 15 MJ songs written by others, that are as recognizable to the average man on the street as these King songs.

But King didn't stop with these songs. She then wrote the songs for her own monster album _Tapestry _which included songs like _You've Got a Friend_, later covered by James Taylor, and _Where You Lead, _later covered by Barbra Streisand.

You could come up with a similar list of Bob Dylan songs that are equally well known but recorded by someone other than Dylan. MJ was a superb showman and he heavily influenced pop culture, but he was not a world class song writer. But I think you agree with me on that. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Dude'd moonwalk, too


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> OK, here's 15 songs written by Carole King and the artist who recorded them.
> 
> Will You Love Me Tomorrow - Shirelles
> Take Good Care of My Baby - Bobby Vee
> ...


If that average man is over forty. Anyone younger, you're giving them too much credit. I certainly don't know every song on this list from merely the name - I'm sure I would recognize each one if you played it for me.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> OK, here's 15 songs written by Carole King and the artist who recorded them.
> 
> Will You Love Me Tomorrow - Shirelles
> Take Good Care of My Baby - Bobby Vee
> ...


Once again, I already conceded the "SONGWRITER" part of this debate. But since you insist on arguing it, lets have a go.

With all due respect to the oldies and The Cookies, The Clifftons and Freddie Scott....there isnt a person alive under 50 that has a clue who most of the artists on your list are.

By contrast, here are songs that Michael Jackson WROTE or Co-Wrote - all of which were miles bigger than anything on your list.

-Billie Jean (from Thriller certified 100x platinum)
-Black and White (certified gold and platinum)
-The Way You Make Me Feel (platinum)
-Bad (7x platinum)
-I Just Cant Stop Loving You (platinum)
-Beat It (from Thriller certified 100x platinum)
-The Girl Is Mine w/ Paul McCartney (from Thriller certified 100x platinum)
-Dont Stop Till You Get Enough (platinum)
-Wanna Be Starting Something (from Thriller certified 100x platinum)
-Off The Wall (platinum)
-Dangerous (7 x platinum)
-Remember the Time (platinum)
-Smooth Criminal (platinum)
-Working Day and Night (platinum)
-Dirty Diana (platinum)
-We are the World (8x platinum)

Michael Jackson isnt known as a song writer per say. But to try and say the catalog of songs he has written isnt impressive is to ignore the facts.

He is far and away the most popular artist of the last 40 years and in the history of pop music is only surpassed by Frank Sinatra, Elvis and the Beatles.


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## Lebewohl (May 21, 2009)

Apparently, there are over two hundred unpublished and unrecorded songs that Michael Jackson had left. Maybe he will have a posthumous career as a great songwriter.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

pt4u67 said:


> The long form "smooth criminal" video was great.


I also liked the Leave Me Alone video which was very creative.


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## 14395 (Mar 10, 2004)

Beau said:


> The person most thankful for Jackson's death is the governor of South Carolina.


Yeah, or Jon & Kate :icon_smile_big:


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

For those with AOL Radio,they have an All Michael Jackson station,if you are interested.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Thank you Howard, for keeping this thread civil.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Has this been reported in the media?



Howard said:


> Yes for the past few days.


I can't find anything, print or electronic.


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## graphei (Jan 22, 2009)

You can't find anything print or electronic about Michael Jackson's death?  It's been all over the Yahoo! main page for a while now. A number of national newspapers reported on it as well...

I'm in the same boat as someone who said they don't know life without MJ, having been born in 1985. Many of my childhood memories are of dancing to his music. In fact, one of my earliest memories is of dancing along to 'Bad' in a red blanket sleeper! 

RIP Michael. You made the world dance.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm going to include Billie Jean tomorrow night when I play piano in the restaurant. I'll have to back off the energy a bit, but I think I can make it work!


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm going to include Billie Jean tomorrow night when I play piano in the restaurant. I'll have to back off the energy a bit, but I think I can make it work!


Make it sound like _"As Time Goes By"._


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

That is a good one I can play. I had forgotten about it. (I never make lists; I just flow where my energy takes me when I do solo gigs.)

Billie Jean can be slowed a bit, but it's chord structure will keep it a long way from sounding like "As Time Goes By" no matter what I do with the rhythm and tempo. LOL


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## bbcrock (Feb 13, 2009)

I will say this. I thought since the first time he ditched his tuxedo around 1981 that MJ was a particularly horrible dresser whose sense of fashion was out of step with "fashion forward" as well as classic fashion. I found his military uniforms to be creepy in a North Korea way and the fedora hat to be jarring and artificial. The Jherri Curls were not a good look and the make up went beyond the pale. However, given this is a fashion site, I will stick to generally badly mixed clothes that made him look awkward throughout most of his career.

The one time I saw him in person he was wearing the red shirt, black armband and epaulets thing and looked like some kind of paramilitary gun nut.


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## CodeMan (Apr 9, 2009)

I found that his style perfectly matched with his personality as a musician and it somehow fittet his peculiar voice and music. He never had a great voice, nor a good clothing style, but it was unique.

What came first to my mind, when I heard about his death was that he could have been aware that he physically wouldn't be able to manage the big comeback-tour...


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm going to include Billie Jean tomorrow night when I play piano in the restaurant. I'll have to back off the energy a bit, but I think I can make it work!


My favorite MJ song without a doubt, but to me it's the energy of the song that makes it work.

Having said that I remember the first time I heard Jose Feliciano's version of "_Light My Fire_" and I just thought it was all wrong. I hated it compared to The Doors. Now I will take Jose's version any time. I love it. Funny how our perceptions change over time.

Cruiser


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> My favorite MJ song without a doubt, but to me it's the energy of the song that makes it work.
> 
> Having said that I remember the first time I heard Jose Feliciano's version of "_Light My Fire_" and I just thought it was all wrong. I hated it compared to The Doors. Now I will take Jose's version any time. I love it. Funny how our perceptions change over time.
> 
> Cruiser


I understand that, but this is a sedate restaurant where at least 10 to 15 years ago, most men would have worn a coat and tie to eat. (I'll wear that tonight, but they did not give me an official dress code.) In this background context, I think Billie Jean will be interesting enough to work. Hopefully, people will be reminded of the song. "I'll Be There" is Jackson 5, but that one easily fits into the situation. (Alas, there is no vocal mike, so I can't sing it; I'll have to do an all piano rendition.)


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

KenR said:


> Thank you Howard, for keeping this thread civil.


You're Welcome.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm going to include Billie Jean tomorrow night when I play piano in the restaurant. I'll have to back off the energy a bit, but I think I can make it work!


Can you try for Beat It on piano?


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Alas, there is no vocal mike, so I can't sing it; I'll have to do an all piano rendition.)


If you don't try to mimic Michael Jackson, I won't try to imitate Susan Boyle. 

"Ben" would be another good song, since it's mellow and only the most die-hard Michael Jackson fans would recognize it.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

if anyone has watched the rehersal and his speech in March for his upcoming July tour when he kept repeating to the crowd This Is It,This is it,my final curtain call not knowing that 3 months later he passed away,what a coincidence.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

*Michael Jackson is dead* and has taken The Interchange with him, so it seems.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm going to include Billie Jean tomorrow night when I play piano in the restaurant. I'll have to back off the energy a bit, but I think I can make it work!


You play piano in a restaurant? Does the managment know that?​


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

nolan50410 said:


> I think your are just biased because the Beatles were part of "your time". Ask someone who was a teenager in '86 and *I'm sure you'd get a slightly different opinion *then the one you have provided. Just *because you're an old fart doesn't mean everything was better when you were young*.


What I said was not opinion. It's fact.

Time has marched on long enough to put the Beatles and Elvis into historical perspective: they changed the culture, period. Jackson, on the other hand, changed nothing. He was a song and dance man, a pretty good one, but that's all.



> Just because you're an old fart doesn't mean everything was better when you were young.


And you're correct. A lotta stuff is better now, but I had no choice of when I was a kid, which was the 50's and I wished we had cell phones and Hot Pockets and BJ's on demand, but alas, no such luck.​


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Peak and Pine said:


> Time has marched on long enough to put the Beatles and Elvis into historical perspective: they changed the culture, period. Jackson, on the other hand, changed nothing. He was a song and dance man, a pretty good one, but that's all.


He was the first black artist to be shown on MTV; his songs were distinctly R&B but often featured heavy metal guitarists like Slash and Eddie Van Halen. He wrote nine songs on _Thriller_ and seven of them went to #1.

I feel sorry for the way he felt he had to live his life, and for his untimely death. I'm not laying flowers on his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. But I do feel that he was one of the most influential singer/songwriters of the last forty years.

The criticism levelled against Michael Jackson in this thread sounds more like what people should be saying about another fifty-year-old known for changing appearances too often - Madonna.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I was reading that his casket that's worth $25,000 in gold plated will be on display at The Los Angeles Arena next week where he would've had his This Is It Concert tour but never happened.What a sickening display,let the man Rest in peace already for crying out loud,They won't leave him alone for one second.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Miket61 said:


> He was the first black artist to be shown on MTV...


...so?​


> ... his songs were distinctly R&B but often featured heavy metal guitarists like Slash and Eddie Van Halen. He wrote nine songs on _Thriller_ and seven of them went to #1.


No one is suggesting he wasn't a major musical talent, but we're talking about _culture change_ , i.e., The Beatles and Elvis, they changed the culture. Sinatra and Jackson changed only the beat.​


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

people also thought of him as a trendsetter,the way fans around the world were dancing to his moves and such,the 80's were a cool time.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

I'm pretty sure that he's actually been for quite a few years already, probably since he made the Thriller video. Powerful drugs can work miracles.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Miket61 said:


> If you don't try to mimic Michael Jackson, I won't try to imitate Susan Boyle.
> 
> "Ben" would be another good song, since it's mellow and only the most die-hard Michael Jackson fans would recognize it.


I've sang "I'll Be There" lots of times; I follow the arrangement, but obviously, I sing it an octave lower. It works fine.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Peak and Pine said:


> You play piano in a restaurant? Does the managment know that?​


Whatever. I have no clue what you are trying to say, but I'll consider the source anyway.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I think it's a sickening display to have a ticket to go to a dumb memorial,just let him RIP already.It's supposed to be a somber moment,not a happy one.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Howard said:


> I think it's a sickening display to have a ticket to go to a dumb memorial,just let him RIP already.It's supposed to be a somber moment,not a happy one.


I think in the case of an entertainer, the New Orleans style would be most appropriate - a solemn procession and somber music before the funeral, and happy celebratory music afterwards.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

and would you believe his casket is worth almost $50,000,just about as much as James Brown's?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^I hope this does not come off as snarky but, this is one of the major ills we see in our Country these days...what a twisted sense of value. It was stated on the TV news this weekend, the municipal and State costs of supporting this celebrity's funeral could total in the millions. Yesterday, seven of our soldiers died in Afghanistan and the public dollars spent supporting the internment of those American Heroes, will total less than what was paid for Michael Jackson's coffin. Michael Jackson was a well compensated performer whose death may very possibly (eventually) be attributed to his abuse of prescription medicines. Those seven soldiers who died yesterday, died as heroes, taking care of the peoples business and perhaps making our world a little more secure. Somehow, it just doesnt seem right!


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## lee_44106 (Apr 10, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^I hope this does not come off as snarky but, this is one of the major ills we see in our Country these days...what a twisted sense of value. It was stated on the TV news this weekend, the municipal and State costs of supporting this celebrity's funeral could total in the millions. Yesterday, seven of our soldiers died in Afghanistan and the public dollars spent supporting the internment of those American Heroes, will total less than what was paid for Michael Jackson's coffin. Michael Jackson was a well compensated performer whose death may very possibly (eventually) be attributed to his abuse of prescription medicines. Those seven soldiers who died yesterday, died as heroes, taking care of the peoples business and perhaps making our world a little more secure. Somehow, it just doesnt seem right!


+1.

Also, the state of California is in serious financial trouble. And now the city of LA is mobilizing its resources to accomodate the funeral.

Sad state, sad peopel, just sad in general.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^I hope this does not come off as snarky but, this is one of the major ills we see in our Country these days...what a twisted sense of value. It was stated on the TV news this weekend, the municipal and State costs of supporting this celebrity's funeral could total in the millions. Yesterday, seven of our soldiers died in Afghanistan and the public dollars spent supporting the internment of those American Heroes, will total less than what was paid for Michael Jackson's coffin. Michael Jackson was a well compensated performer whose death may very possibly (eventually) be attributed to his abuse of prescription medicines. Those seven soldiers who died yesterday, died as heroes, taking care of the peoples business and perhaps making our world a little more secure. Somehow, it just doesnt seem right!


How many millions of dollars in tax revenue do you think the city of Los Angeles and the State of California will receive from the tourists and visitors to the event today? How much money will local businesses make in additional food, hotel rooms, rental cars, souvenirs etc?

Here is a hint, a LOT more than it is costing them for the infrastructure to support today's event.

On top of that, how many millions of dollars did Michael Jackson and his estate donate to needy people in LA? To children's hospitals and other charities? How about the millions of dollars in income and property tax he has paid over the years?

Talk about nickle and diming someone's memory.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I don't think you are understanding how much it probably cost. 

Neither of us know how much it cost or how much it earns in tax revenue.

Perhaps you could be a bit more tactful.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I don't think you are understanding how much it probably cost.
> 
> Neither of us know how much it cost or how much it earns in tax revenue.
> 
> Perhaps you could be a bit more tactful.


Speaking about dead troops as a means to make a point about the cost of a public memorial is tactful, but calling someone on those comments isnt?

Gotcha.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Miket61 said:


> I think in the case of an entertainer, the New Orleans style would be most appropriate - a solemn procession and somber music before the funeral, and happy celebratory music afterwards.


"In order to know a community, one must observe the style of its funerals and know what manner of men they bury with most ceremony."
- Mark Twain in _Roughing It _


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^I hope this does not come off as snarky but, this is one of the major ills we see in our Country these days...what a twisted sense of value. It was stated on the TV news this weekend, the municipal and State costs of supporting this celebrity's funeral could total in the millions. Yesterday, seven of our soldiers died in Afghanistan and the public dollars spent supporting the internment of those American Heroes, will total less than what was paid for Michael Jackson's coffin. Michael Jackson was a well compensated performer whose death may very possibly (eventually) be attributed to his abuse of prescription medicines. Those seven soldiers who died yesterday, died as heroes, taking care of the peoples business and perhaps making our world a little more secure. Somehow, it just doesnt seem right!


It doesn't make sense to me either.

That said, it's sort of the dark side of the free market system; the fact is, most people value the memorial spectacle of MJ over the "memorial value" of seven servicemen. Ironic, in that those servicemen, in principle, battle to preserve our system.

The same free market system gives us a collection of athletes and actors who earn far more (in both currency, respect and fame) than scientists and teachers.

Offhand, the only nation I've ever been to where the acclaim of soldiers exceeded that of entertainers - and it's gone now - was the Soviet Union... decidedly not a free-market democracy 

The hazard of democratic systems is that the common man is the material arbiter of significance and taste!

DH


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

Quay said:


> "In order to know a community, one must observe the style of its funerals and know what manner of men they bury with most ceremony."
> - Mark Twain in _Roughing It _


Great quote.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> Speaking about dead troops as a means to make a point about the cost of a public memorial is tactful, but calling someone on those comments isnt?
> 
> Gotcha.


Eagle did not personally attack you by quoting you. Just because your politics differ from his does not make his point invalid.

But if it makes you feel better that you think you got me, go for it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

mrkleen said:


> Speaking about dead troops as a means to make a point about the cost of a public memorial is tactful, but calling someone on those comments isnt?
> 
> Gotcha.


As seems to be the norm in your case, once again you seem to have misinterpreted my intent. My mention of the seven soldiers who died in Afghanistan was not intended to make a point about the public costs of Michael Jackson's memorial service, per se, but rather, to provide a foil against which we might consider, apparent, current day societal values. We seem to give greater weight to a celebrities death than to the loss of seven American heroes; than to post election events in Iran, a nation that poses one of the greatest threats to peace and stability in the world today; than to the public revelation that the unemployment rate in the US has topped 10% (when those unemployed who have given up looking for work are counted); indeed, we seem to have lost our public sensibilities!

It's rather sad to witness our President calling the Jackson family, personally, to offer his condolences and his making at least two public pronouncements on national TV about Michael Jackson's passing, while realizing that the families of those seven soldiers will never personally hear from the president, but rather, will receive a rather cold and decidedly abrupt letter of notification that their beloved sons have been killed in the service of their Country. Gentlemen, we have lost our sense of value here!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> It's rather sad to witness our President calling the Jackson family, personally, to offer his condolences and his making at least two public pronouncements on national TV about Michael Jackson's passing, while realizing that the families of those seven soldiers will never personally hear from the president, but rather, will receive a rather cold and decidedly abrupt letter of notification that their beloved sons have been killed in the service of their Country. Gentlemen, we have lost our sense of value here!


I agree with you 100 percent on this and I too find it sad; however, having said that, after working for a politician I might be willing to give the President a pass on this and put the blame on society as a whole. All too often people who hold elected office feel that they must do certain things if for no other reason than for public consumption. Right or wrong, a large segment of American society would probably take offense if the President said or did nothing here.

Think of it like when world leaders say and do one thing behind the scenes, and then something totally different for the public. How often have leaders of nations worked out some behind the scenes agreement that included a provision that one nation would publically scold the other in the U.N. or similar forum For example, go ahead and do this or that with our blessing, but know that we will be required to rant and rave about it for the voting public back home. Wink wink.

Unfortunately it's the nature of politics.

Cruiser


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> As seems to be the norm in your case, once again you seem to have misinterpreted my intent. My mention of the seven soldiers who died in Afghanistan was not intended to make a point about the public costs of Michael Jackson's memorial service, per se, but rather, to provide a foil against which we might consider, apparent, current day societal values. We seem to give greater weight to a celebrities death than to the loss of seven American heroes; than to post election events in Iran, a nation that poses one of the greatest threats to peace and stability in the world today; than to the public revelation that the unemployment rate in the US has topped 10% (when those unemployed who have given up looking for work are counted); indeed, we seem to have lost our public sensibilities!
> 
> It's rather sad to witness our President calling the Jackson family, personally, to offer his condolences and his making at least two public pronouncements on national TV about Michael Jackson's passing, while realizing that the families of those seven soldiers will never personally hear from the president, but rather, will receive a rather cold and decidedly abrupt letter of notification that their beloved sons have been killed in the service of their Country. Gentlemen, we have lost our sense of value here!


DH addressed this perfectly above.

I dont disagree with what you are saying, but what you or I think isnt really the point. If the public is interested in Michael Jackson's memorial service, than in a democracy it becomes a relevant use of tax dollars and police/fire/EMTs etc.

I think you are correct in saying that it is shameful that we overlook our fallen heros - but that is clearly nothing new - and you using it to try and single out our current president is just partican politics as usual out here.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Indeed, the Romans too created a spectacle in the Colosseum, to entertain the masses but alas, I fear our good old US of A is burning, while President Obama rosins up his bow and resumes playing his fiddle!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

mrkleen said:


> ...I think you are correct in saying that it is shameful that we overlook our fallen heros - but that is clearly nothing new - and you using it to try and single out our current president is just partican politics as usual out here.


Could this mean that ksinc is in error in the other thread, in which he supposes that the Interchange is dead. If your citation that my comments constitute "partisan politics as usual around here", is on point, can we suppose that at least a slight pulse remains in the body of the fora? Oh...hope springs eternal!


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> Could this mean that ksinc is in error in the other thread, in which he supposes that the Interchange is dead. If your citation that my comments constitute "partisan politics as usual around here", is on point, can we suppose that at least a slight pulse remains in the body of the fora? Oh...hope springs eternal!


Too many people with the same political views, posting the same tired drivel over and over does not make for engaging discussions - it makes for a dead message board. The interchange is exhibit A


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

There was just way too much Michael Jackson coverage for the past 2 weeks,there is just more important events in the news these days except a funeral unless if it was for troops in Iraq.


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

Howard said:


> There was just way too much Michael Jackson coverage for the past 2 weeks,there is just more important events in the news these days except a funeral unless if it was for troops in Iraq.


Way too much Michael Jackson! And Al Sharpton never ceases to amaze me with his rediculous comments. How anyone could say that there was nothing strange about Michael Jackson and that it instead was the world around him that was strange is just amazing, funeral/memorial or not.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I turned on an R&B station on the way to lunch today and thought, "I wonder if they've had a moratorium on Michael Jackson songs."

As soon as the song that was playing finished, they went into "Rock With You." This was followed by another song before the DJ came back on the air.

There was no intro, no outro, no mention at all that they'd just played a Michael Jackson song. He was just another artist who wrote and performed songs that people wanted to hear.

Which is how it should be.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

smr said:


> Way too much Michael Jackson! And Al Sharpton never ceases to amaze me with his rediculous comments. How anyone could say that there was nothing strange about Michael Jackson and that it instead was the world around him that was strange is just amazing, funeral/memorial or not.


Since it may be a small economy to amaze you, you may be largely amazed by what the Reverend actually said:

_"I want his three children to know, there wasn't nothing strange about your daddy. It was strange what your daddy had to deal with. He dealt with it anyway. He dealt with it for us."_

What someone has to "deal with" may not include the entire "world around" a person, but simply particularly exasperating aspects of it, such as racism.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I don't think you are understanding how much it probably cost.
> 
> *Neither of us know how much it cost *or how much it earns in tax revenue.
> 
> Perhaps you could be a bit more tactful.


Not anymore. The cost to LA has been officially tallied:

*Michael Jackson memorial cost LA $1.4 million*

_By CHRISTINA HOAG, Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, July 8, 2009

(07-08) 20:02 PDT LOS ANGELES, (AP) --
Los Angeles city officials say $1.4 million was spent to provide security, traffic control and other services surrounding Michael Jackson's memorial service.
The police department said Wednesday that more than 4,000 officers worked to secure Staples Center, Forest Lawn cemetery, and other areas that attracted fans and members of the media. Their deployment cost $1.1 million in overtime pay.
City officials said the rest covered traffic control, cleanup and other costs related to Tuesday's memorial service. They hailed the tally a success, saying it was far less than the nearly $4 million estimated cost._


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Quay said:


> What someone has to "deal with" may not include the entire "world around" a person, but simply particularly exasperating aspects of it, such as racism.


I'm sure the Rev. Mr. Sharpton didn't dare mention that a lot of Michael Jackson's bizarre behavior can be traced to the fact that his father was abusive, pushed him and his brothers to work constantly, and left him traumatized with the belief that he wasn't allowed to do things that other kids did because he was so famous that he would be besieged by crazy fans.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Miket61 said:


> I'm sure the Rev. Mr. Sharpton didn't dare mention that a lot of Michael Jackson's bizarre behavior can be traced to the fact that his father was abusive, pushed him and his brothers to work constantly, and left him traumatized with the belief that he wasn't allowed to do things that other kids did because he was so famous that he would be besieged by crazy fans.


I don't think a dare factored into it as the late Mr. Jackson was pretty clear about all of that in his lifetime and quite legally clear about it in his will.

Then again, one person's lowest bizarre is another person's summit-like qualifications for high office. (See: Palin, S.)

Who can say? :icon_smile:


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Quay said:


> I don't think a dare factored into it as the late Mr. Jackson was pretty clear about all of that in his lifetime and quite legally clear about it in his will.
> 
> Then again, one person's lowest bizarre is another person's summit-like qualifications for high office. (See: Palin, S.)
> 
> Who can say? :icon_smile:


What I mean is, the memorial service was completely orchestrated by the family, led by the man that Michael Jackson himself blamed for much of his weirdness.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Miket61 said:


> I'm sure the Rev. Mr. Sharpton didn't dare mention that a lot of Michael Jackson's bizarre behavior can be traced to the fact that his father was abusive, pushed him and his brothers to work constantly, and left him traumatized with the belief that he wasn't allowed to do things that other kids did because he was so famous that he would be besieged by crazy fans.


Right, because insulting surviving family members is a common occurrence at memorial services.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Miket61 said:


> What I mean is, the memorial service was completely orchestrated by the family, led by the man that Michael Jackson himself blamed for much of his weirdness.


I felt I was watching a glorified concert.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

smr said:


> Way too much Michael Jackson! And Al Sharpton never ceases to amaze me with his rediculous comments. How anyone could say that there was nothing strange about Michael Jackson and that it instead was the world around him that was strange is just amazing, funeral/memorial or not.


Damn,he goes on and on about Michael Jackson this and Michael Jackson that,someone put a muzzle on him now.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Howard said:


> I felt I was watching a glorified concert.


But you watched!

(I wasn't home. I might have watched if I were.)


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

To paraphrase Chevy Chase- "In today's headlines, Michael Jackson is still dead":devil: I was at home(in the office) and I didn't watch...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

H*ll has frozen over...as I am about to commend Nancy Pelosi (). Speaker Pelosi has been reported to have killed discussions on a Congressional Resolution recognizing Michael Jackson! All hail Speaker Pelosi, for perhaps this first, sound decision of her reign of terror.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> H*ll has frozen over...as I am about to commend Nancy Pelosi (). Speaker Pelosi has been reported to have killed discussions on a Congressional Resolution recognizing Michael Jackson! All hail Speaker Pelosi, for perhaps this first, sound decision of her reign of terror.


^+1 :icon_smile:


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

Quay said:


> Since it may be a small economy to amaze you, you may be largely amazed by what the Reverend actually said:
> 
> _"I want his three children to know, there wasn't nothing strange about your daddy. It was strange what your daddy had to deal with. He dealt with it anyway. He dealt with it for us."_
> 
> What someone has to "deal with" may not include the entire "world around" a person, but simply particularly exasperating aspects of it, such as racism.


Point well taken about the specifics of Sharpton's statement, but to state that M. Jackson wasn't strange still suggests that Sharpton is out of touch with reality.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> H*ll has frozen over...as I am about to commend Nancy Pelosi (). Speaker Pelosi has been reported to have killed discussions on a Congressional Resolution recognizing Michael Jackson! All hail Speaker Pelosi, for perhaps this first, sound decision of her reign of terror.


There was a great article in the New York Times about a visit by the Jacksons to the White House during the Reagan administration. Reagan's staff drafted an absolutely horrible letter thanking them for visiting, filled with puns based on their song titles. Later, when they added DC dates to the "Victory" tour, the same staffers wanted Reagan to send a letter of welcome.

The official rejection of both letters was interesting for two reasons - the staffer responsible for making sure Reagan NEVER saw these requests referred to "an artist who calls himself 'Prince'" and dismissively speculated on whether he should be accorded the same honors should he drop by, and the fact that the staffer is now Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Quay said:


> _"I want his three children to know, there wasn't nothing strange about your daddy."_


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

jamgood said:


> [two concert photos and a balcony scene]


Specially selected concert photos are what they are, and the inspiration for grabbing one's crotch in public started somewhere around the time of Nero and continued, with much spontaneous and enthusiastic applause, through Elvis and unto today.

As for the famous dangling-baby scene, well, that was just stupid. Who can say what the motive was. But strange? Hardly.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> H*ll has frozen over...as I am about to commend Nancy Pelosi (). Speaker Pelosi has been reported to have killed discussions on a Congressional Resolution recognizing Michael Jackson! All hail Speaker Pelosi, for perhaps this first, sound decision of her reign of terror.


_
Reign of terror_? Such unabashed and feckless hyperbole.  You've just ensured that Robespierre is now clawing his way out of his grave to come strangle you in your matching plaid pajamas and nightcap.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

smr said:


> Point well taken about the specifics of Sharpton's statement, but to state that M. Jackson wasn't strange still suggests that Sharpton is out of touch with reality.


You are welcome and thank you. But kindly remember that one person's strange is another person's everyday waking reality. There is no fixed societal meaning of the term. Imagine how strange we all are to most of the world, we who congregate to discuss the manly art of dressing well.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Quay said:


> As for the famous dangling-baby scene, well, that was just stupid. Who can say what the motive was. But strange? Hardly.


As a parent I found it to be beyond "strange." Actually I think it bordered on criminal behavior; however, we are in complete agreement that it was also incredibly stupid.

The guy was a good entertainer, but beyond that he was at least one taco short of a combination plate. Or as they say around my parts, his cheese slid off of his cracker a long time ago.

Cruiser


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Quay said:


> But strange? Hardly.


Please assist one in developing a enlightened perception of "strange". A few examples please, not too complex, so one may learn. Thank you.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

jamgood said:


> Please assist one in developing a enlightened perception of "strange". A few examples please, not too complex, so one may learn. Thank you.


Remedial education will cost you $5,000.00/hr payable in advance. However, if you promise not speak during that hour you'll only be charged $500.00.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Quay said:


> _
> Reign of terror_? Such unabashed and feckless hyperbole.  You've just ensured that Robespierre is now clawing his way out of his grave to come strangle you in your matching plaid pajamas and nightcap.


LOL! Well actually (to correct the record) this time of year, those PJ's would be blue/white seersucker shorties and as for Robespierre's pending visit, I'll pull a "Motel 8" response and ..."leave the light on for him!"


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Maybe he had an itch and for got to use cream but the dangling baby incident,what would've happen if the baby had fallen?


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