# Fox Umbrellas - Anyone have/had one?



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Springtime is around the corner, and my wonderfully service walgreens-sourced cane wood handle umbrella has served me well. I'd like to step it up a bit with a great spring/summer accessory, and saw Fox Umbrellas on how its made the other day.

What can you all tell me about them? Are they THAT well made? They appear to be, but given that I can't touch and feel it on this side of the pond, I'm hoping for some insight by those who have before I make that kind of splurge.

Thanks gentlemen.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I believe Cardcaptor Charlie has posted about them at some length. He lives in the UK, and is something of an expert on the traditional englishman's rig, including proper umbrellas. IIRC, he places them in the same general class as SAB and James Smith (perhaps not their full equal, though?). Try a search.


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## Bracemaker (May 11, 2005)

I own a black one with a knobbly hazel straight handle. Love it.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Bracemaker - given the quality of your product, your recommendation is well regarded.

CD - Cardcaptor Charlie was on my list of guys to harass soon. I did try a search, not much came up on the Fox.

I was turned on to Fox due to the TV special, and had never before thought of such an item. It is a must now, so in spending $200+, I'd like to be sure I'm getting the best I can.


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## chrstc (Jun 11, 2007)

Hello,

Fox make umbrellas for most of the Jermyn Street and Savile Row names and one of the only reasons to go to TM Lewin these days is that they put theirs into their sales from time to time, thus making them very competitively-priced.

There is a Fox shop in London Wall but the best selection of their umbrellas I've ever seen is actually, bizarrely, at Davidoff the cigar shop at the far end of Jermyn Street.

Personally I've got a James Smith and the main reason for that was that it was actually made in the basement of the shop and cut to my height etc. When a special order costs the same as a stock umbrella (most of the stock ones are made in Italy confusingly) it's a no-brainer. However if you can't make it to London for the full Smith service, or are unwilling to wait, then I suspect the quality of the Fox umbrellas (or the SAB's) is just as high.

Hope that helps a little,

Chris.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

I have two. The first one from "Uncle Sam's Umbrellas" New York City, sadly that store went out of business. The other one is from Briggs in London, that one is the type that the handle and the bottom unscrew so it will fit in yor suit case. Both handles are wangee. Try James Smith as they seem to have the largest collection. At one time BB carried them.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Either way I'm going to be ordering via post (no London trip for me, sadly), and I'm looking at Fox's solid sticks (which seem quite pricey in the 200 pound range). Thank you for the tips for James Smith and SAB, I'll look into theirs as well.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

*Fox Umbrellas - Anyone have/had one?​*
I think Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity carry those things. Me, I just hold a copy of the NYT over my head.


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

chrstc said:


> I've got a James Smith ... However if you can't make it to London for the full Smith service, or are unwilling to wait, then I suspect the quality of the Fox umbrellas (or the SAB's) is just as high.


I have a one-piece JS umbrella myself; however, don't Fox make some of the JS umbrellas.


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## chrstc (Jun 11, 2007)

Hello,

I thought that the standard JS umbrellas were Fox-made but apparently they're not no. They're all made by a company in Italy so they say.

BTW for those who are interested:

https://www.visitlondon.com/attractions/detail/45103

and






Chris.


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

Fox, Smith, Swayne-Adeney, all are first rate and vastly better than the flimsy ones from elsewhere. I've had Foxes from the 1920s recovered and they are as strong as new ones.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> *Fox Umbrellas - Anyone have/had one?​*
> I think Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity carry those things. Me, I just hold a copy of the NYT over my head.


Funny, I do the same thing with the WSJ. I'm just getting tired of the ink running down my hands and staining my donkey tie.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

For solid stick, I'll go for James Smith because I think they are more slender than a Fox. 

Fox does good fit-up ones and their whangee ones a rather nice. 

SAB is expensive and you'll only go there if you wanted a silk one as they are the only ones that do it. And also, they do larger canopies.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

I'm curious to know if anyone can explain how a $200 umbrella is ten times better than the $20 umbrella I bought at Walmart.

On the other hand...I've always been mildly interested in getting one of these: https://www.tacticalthings.com/Unbreakable-Umbrellas.htm


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

JJR512 said:


> I'm curious to know if anyone can explain how a $200 umbrella is ten times better than the $20 umbrella I bought at Walmart.
> 
> On the other hand...I've always been mildly interested in getting one of these: https://www.tacticalthings.com/Unbreakable-Umbrellas.htm


In part, it's better in the same way that a Patek Phillipe is better than a Timex. Both will keep time. Both umbrellas will keep you dry. But if you're into craftsmanship for its own sake, there's no comparison

That said, if you tend to use a long umbrella as a walking stick, the old-fashioned solid-stick umbrellas *are* practically 10 times better than the $20 ones. That may be underselling them a bit, come to think of it.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

CuffDaddy said:


> In part, it's better in the same way that a Patek Phillipe is better than a Timex. Both will keep time. Both umbrellas will keep you dry. But if you're into craftsmanship for its own sake, there's no comparison
> 
> That said, if you tend to use a long umbrella as a walking stick, the old-fashioned solid-stick umbrellas *are* practically 10 times better than the $20 ones. That may be underselling them a bit, come to think of it.


I may soon be needing a walking stick. I've got this hip thing that hurts sometimes...since I was 16. But I wonder, if I need a walking stick, and I have one of these solid-stick umbrellas to use as a walking stick, and it starts to rain...if I put up the umbrella, what am I now going to use for a walking stick? :confused2:


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Why, JJR512, you'll be wearing a coat and a proper hat, won't you?


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> For solid stick, I'll go for James Smith because I think they are more slender than a Fox.
> 
> Fox does good fit-up ones and their whangee ones a rather nice.
> 
> SAB is expensive and you'll only go there if you wanted a silk one as they are the only ones that do it. And also, they do larger canopies.


Thank you for that tip Charlie. Solid stick is the way I want to go, as I do usually use my umbrella as a walking stick when not raining. Not that I need to lean on it at all, it simply feels natural. My concern is what seems to be the inherent complications of ordering from James Smith as opposed to Fox's very simple, easy to use website.



JJR512 said:


> I'm curious to know if anyone can explain how a $200 umbrella is ten times better than the $20 umbrella I bought at Walmart.
> 
> On the other hand...I've always been mildly interested in getting one of these: https://www.tacticalthings.com/Unbreakable-Umbrellas.htm


JJ - CuffDaddy is on track with this, although I wouldn't have compared Patek to Timex, I would have made a Patek to Rolex comparison.....here's where the 10 times better comes in: The $20 walmart one (in my case, wal-greens) was mass produced in China with no regard for the individual product, how its made, quality control, etc. The purpose is to produce a passable product for as much margin as possible. Fox (and the like) on the other hand, are individually crafted items made by a skilled first world laborer of the best materials money can buy, with EVERY regard for the individual product, quality control, how its made, etc.

Much in the same way I'll buy a $50 fedora from Bailey of Hollywood vs. a $10 one from Target; a Hickey suit, AE Shoes, etc. Given the amount that most of us spend on our wardrobes, spending a deuce on a proper, best of the best umbrella makes me feel better about the item I'm carrying. And, all that aside, I get comments on my wooden handle $20 walgreens one all the time. I've taken care of it, haven't lost it (knock on wood), and it has served me well. That was two years ago. It's time (for me) to step up, and have something of which I can genuinely appreciate the craftsmanship.

That may not be the quantitative explanation for which you are looking, but it's a good enough explanation for me


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## chrstc (Jun 11, 2007)

Hello,
But if you do order from JS you can send them your height so the umbrella is cut to length and you can request that it is made from a particular blank in their workshop. If you do have a JS umbrella made for you then that is something they definitely have over SAB or Fox. However good those umbrellas are they are factory-made.
Give JS a call-international calls are cheap these days-but don't just choose a ready-made example if you do order from them as that really seems to be missing the point to me!

Good luck whatever you decide,
Chris.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

> The $20 walmart one was mass produced in China with no regard for the individual product, how its made, quality control, etc. The purpose is to produce a passable product for as much margin as possible.


That's one way of looking at it; it's called the cynical way. Another way is that we get to keep our heads dry for just $20 bucks. Actually, it's currently $16. Or if you want to spring for $24, you get this peacock baby:

A close-up of which can be found here:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Galleria-Peacock-Auto-Open-Stick-Umbrella/12179596.

I may get me one of those. Cheap enough, since I'm just going to forget it by the ATM anyway.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

CuffDaddy said:


> Why, JJR512, you'll be wearing a coat and a proper hat, won't you?


Yes...But I'm not sure how you're question, or my answer to it, answers _my_ question about what I would use for a walking stick if I had to use my walking stick/umbrella as an umbrella instead of a walking stick.



TheGreatTwizz said:


> JJ - CuffDaddy is on track with this, although I wouldn't have compared Patek to Timex, I would have made a Patek to Rolex comparison.....here's where the 10 times better comes in: The $20 walmart one (in my case, wal-greens) was mass produced in China with no regard for the individual product, how its made, quality control, etc. The purpose is to produce a passable product for as much margin as possible. Fox (and the like) on the other hand, are individually crafted items made by a skilled first world laborer of the best materials money can buy, with EVERY regard for the individual product, quality control, how its made, etc.
> 
> Much in the same way I'll buy a $50 fedora from Bailey of Hollywood vs. a $10 one from Target; a Hickey suit, AE Shoes, etc. Given the amount that most of us spend on our wardrobes, spending a deuce on a proper, best of the best umbrella makes me feel better about the item I'm carrying. And, all that aside, I get comments on my wooden handle $20 walgreens one all the time. I've taken care of it, haven't lost it (knock on wood), and it has served me well. That was two years ago. It's time (for me) to step up, and have something of which I can genuinely appreciate the craftsmanship.
> 
> That may not be the quantitative explanation for which you are looking, but it's a good enough explanation for me


Is a $50 Bailey hat better than a $10 hat from Target? Probably. The Bailey's will probably last longer and hold its shape better, too. And for a difference of $40, sure, I'd spend more on the better item. But we're not talking about a $40 difference, I'm talking about a $180 difference.

I guess it's a matter of scale. $200 seems like a lot for an umbrella to me because right now, $200 is a lot of money to me. I'm unemployed and have never been employed with an income high enough to think nothing of spending $200 on an umbrella. I realize that to a lot of people here, $200 really _is_ pocket change, and $200 umbrellas, $40 socks, $70 under shirts, and $1000 shoes are the norm. Maybe some day I'll get there.

Then the other factor is that so far in my life, the only reason I've ever replaced an umbrella is because I lost it. This touches on what I just said in the last paragraph, but to me, replacing a $20 umbrella that I've lost isn't as big a deal as replacing a $200 umbrella that I lost. On the other hand, perhaps if I spent $200 on an umbrella, I'd be more careful with it...I do know that since I've switched to $200 sunglasses, I haven't lost them nearly as often as I lost the $10 sunglasses I used to get.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

I was really buying into that poor man story until you got to the part about the $200 sunglasses.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> I was really buying into that poor man story until you got to the part about the $200 sunglasses.


Well, they were really only ~$150, and I didn't pay for them. 

My next pair will probably be >$200, though; I have my eye on a pair of Persols. I really like the way they look on me. I was nearly set to get ~$200 Ray Ban Wayfarers, but then I saw and tried the $255 Persol Wayfarer-style and thought they looked so much better on me.

So I guess in this sense I kind of understand a $200 umbrella. Are $200 sunglasses 10x better than $20 sunglasses? Probably not. They definitely are better, of course, but I don't know if I can honestly say 10x better. They're better because they have polarized lenses, made of better materials that don't scratch as easily, and just plain look better. So different values for different people, I suppose. I spend a lot of my time, especially when I _was_ working (driving ambulances), driving, so getting high-quality sunglasses that cut down on glare and haze and whatnot was something very important to me. But I don't spend very much time walking around in suits or trying to make fashion statements with my umbrella or walking stick, so spending money like that on something like that isn't particularly important to me.

So I hope nobody got the impression I was saying it's _wrong_ or _stupid_ to spend that much money on an umbrella. If that's what you like and can afford, that's great.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

chrstc said:


> Hello,
> But if you do order from JS you can send them your height so the umbrella is cut to length and you can request that it is made from a particular blank in their workshop. If you do have a JS umbrella made for you then that is something they definitely have over SAB or Fox. However good those umbrellas are they are factory-made.
> Give JS a call-international calls are cheap these days-but don't just choose a ready-made example if you do order from them as that really seems to be missing the point to me!
> 
> ...


Chris, I wasn't aware of that difference. That, now, makes all the sense in the world and takes away the apples to apples part of things. Can I request them to send me photos of specific blanks, or is that something reserved to a factory visit?Thank you for the tip.



JJR512 said:


> Well, they were really only ~$150, and I didn't pay for them.
> 
> My next pair will probably be >$200, though; I have my eye on a pair of Persols. I really like the way they look on me. I was nearly set to get ~$200 Ray Ban Wayfarers, but then I saw and tried the $255 Persol Wayfarer-style and thought they looked so much better on me.
> 
> ...


Ahhh, I think you answered your own question here. I can relate to the sunglasses issue. For years, I rode my bike (Harley, not pedal cycle) with specific glasses that looked like regular sunglasses but were ISO certified safety goggles. They're ~$20 a pair, and I own like 6 pairs of them with dark lenses for day, yellows for cloudy days, and clear and mirrored for night, different frames, etc. Then, I bought a pair of Ray-Bans (5194 to be exact). I happened to get them for $100 on ebay (trusted seller) vs $180 retail. That was one of my first experiences in the difference of quality when you spend more. Were they 10x better than the glasses I previously rode with? YES!!! Not only did they sharpen my vision (polarization), but they didn't scratch (glass vs. plastic), were more comfortable, etc.

For me, I wear a suit/sportcoat six days a week, and sometimes do on the 7th as well. I'm a smoker, so I spend time outside, and my job requires me to walk outside, even in inclement weather, between three buildings, crossing a busy highway. Not only will this be a well used accessory, but a quality umbrella is nearly a necessity.

I don't make a billion dollars a year (if I did, I'd personally sponsor the CSE event in Philly!!!), but this is a luxury wardrobe item the way some people will buy a $100 pocket square or $200 tie (neither of which I've done). As for scale, I think to anyone a $200 umbrella is expensive. I know I think it is. Like other things, I take dressing well and my wardrobe collection as a hobby. Some people spend $200 on a paintball gun, I'll spend it on a hand made umbrella. Would a $20 umbrella get the job done? Certainly. But I wouldn't enjoy carrying it nearly as much as I suspect I'll like this


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## Lieutenant (May 17, 2007)

Twizz, its been over a month...did you make an umbrella selection? A particularly rainy day here in Virginia got me thinking about quality umbrellas recently, and I have started doing my own research (including searching the forums). Curious to see what you have decided on.


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

i've had several 1920s Fox-frames recovered (by Fox) and they remain sturdy after nearly a century.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Not to beat a dead horse on this thread, which I just saw, but a $20 umbrella is stupid. Never saw one that would last more than a couple years, if that, and then only when it doesn't rain much. I can't afford a $200 umbrella, wish I could, but I did spend around $75 for a decent umbrella from BB and am glad that I did. It's sturdy, holds up in wind and is big enough to actually work in stormy weather.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Lieutenant said:


> Twizz, its been over a month...did you make an umbrella selection? A particularly rainy day here in Virginia got me thinking about quality umbrellas recently, and I have started doing my own research (including searching the forums). Curious to see what you have decided on.


Hey LT....I've made a decision, but haven't taken it further than that. chrstc and I have had a pretty in depth dialogue about this. Outside of the UK, the only real custom option is Fox. James Smith flat out refuses to do anything custom via phone/email. You can order a simple solid stick, but you're left with nearly NO options. With Fox, you can specify canopy color, wood, etc. I've made a decision on canopy (yellow), and I'm a little split (no pun intended)on the wood type, but haven't yet placed the order. With exchange rates and the extra goodies, it comes to about $400. If this month turns out like it should, and the accountant gives me good news re: Uncle Sam, then its on!


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## Boris (Aug 4, 2005)

I purchased an umbrella from Uncle Sam's in New York in 1987. It has a fox frame, mespo canopy and malacca handle. Operates as good as the day I bought it.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Boris said:


> I purchased an umbrella from Uncle Sam's in New York in 1987. It has a fox frame, mespo canopy and malacca handle. Operates as good as the day I bought it.


Wait, there's a shop called Uncle Sam's in NY? I was referring to the IRS, but hey.....


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## Boris (Aug 4, 2005)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> Wait, there's a shop called Uncle Sam's in NY? I was referring to the IRS, but hey.....


There was an umbrella shop in midtown New York City called Uncle Sam's that closed a few years ago. Come to think of it I think it might of had something to do with the IRS as to why it closed.


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## Lieutenant (May 17, 2007)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> Hey LT....I've made a decision, but haven't taken it further than that. chrstc and I have had a pretty in depth dialogue about this. Outside of the UK, the only real custom option is Fox. James Smith flat out refuses to do anything custom via phone/email. You can order a simple solid stick, but you're left with nearly NO options. With Fox, you can specify canopy color, wood, etc. I've made a decision on canopy (yellow), and I'm a little split (no pun intended)on the wood type, but haven't yet placed the order. With exchange rates and the extra goodies, it comes to about $400. If this month turns out like it should, and the accountant gives me good news re: Uncle Sam, then its on!


Excellent! I spent some more time looking over their website yesterday myself, they do offer quite a lot of custom options. Sadly, I still seem to hanker for the Brigg umbrella. Last night I happened to be on the J. Peterman website and they had a Cherry handled Brigg with gold collar for 200 dollars! Ecstatic! with shipping and a new member discount it would have been just under 200 dollars. While I was deciding to risk my credit card info over an unsecure internet site, I lost it. I guess they had just one left, and hopefully it was a fellow Andy member who got it)


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Lieutenant said:


> Excellent! I spent some more time looking over their website yesterday myself, they do offer quite a lot of custom options. Sadly, I still seem to hanker for the Brigg umbrella. Last night I happened to be on the J. Peterman website and they had a Cherry handled Brigg with gold collar for 200 dollars! Ecstatic! with shipping and a new member discount it would have been just under 200 dollars. While I was deciding to risk my credit card info over an unsecure internet site, I lost it. I guess they had just one left, and hopefully it was a fellow Andy member who got it)


Lt., I'm an avid internet shopper, have been for a dozen years now. If you are familiar with the company, don't mind the 'non-secure' checkout path. Federal law limits your liability for credit card fraud at $50. This is why you should ALWAYS use 'credit' (as in VISA processed), not a pin-based debit transaction for those style cards.


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## norton (Dec 18, 2008)

Lieutenant said:


> I guess they had just one left, and hopefully it was a fellow Andy member who got it)


It was I.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

^^^^^Now thats the best news all day!!!


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Circumstance has taught me to think of umbrellas as disposable items rather than fine accessories. I will forget them sooner or later in a pub, or I will break them. I tend to buy a $30 Tote which is pretty tough, and which folds up to the length of a forearm. But really I'd prefer a full size umbrella which is mounted with razor blades at the end of each spine, to slice and destroy the oversize umbrellas of selfish people walking on narrow NYC sidewalks. Still I'd leave it in a pub eventually, which is the only reason I haven't created one yet.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Considering a good stick umbrella will out live the original owner, they would seem to be a good value if one is not prone to lose things.


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