# Love the Red Hat



## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

No surprise here. $4/gallon gas here we come.

Anyone not think he is on par with Castro...?

Boycott Citgo...


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I think the UN should sanction him for encouraging the use of green house gas producing products and I think every liberal should boycott him for the same.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

JRR said:


> Boycott Citgo...


JRR

I appreciate the sentiment, but if you boycott Citgo, Venezuelan gas will just end up being sold at Chevron, Exxon, BP, etc. All of the gasoline travels through the same pipelines, and then gets treateed at distribution point (adding proprietary cleansers and detergents). The only way Venezuela feels the pinch is to consume less, and make everyone feel the pinch. I am not tree-hugger, but I would love to see REAL alternative energy, just to punish the thugs like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

agnash said:


> JRR
> 
> I appreciate the sentiment, but if you boycott Citgo, Venezuelan gas will just end up being sold at Chevron, Exxon, BP, etc. All of the gasoline travels through the same pipelines, and then gets treateed at distribution point (adding proprietary cleansers and detergents). The only way Venezuela feels the pinch is to consume less, and make everyone feel the pinch. I am not tree-hugger, but I would love to see REAL alternative energy, just to punish the thugs like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela.


https://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2006-01-11-citgo-cover-usat_x.htm

He picked Citgo because of its ownership.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

agnash said:


> JRR
> 
> I appreciate the sentiment, but if you boycott Citgo, Venezuelan gas will just end up being sold at Chevron, Exxon, BP, etc. All of the gasoline travels through the same pipelines, and then gets treateed at distribution point (adding proprietary cleansers and detergents). The only way Venezuela feels the pinch is to consume less, and make everyone feel the pinch. I am not tree-hugger, but I would love to see REAL alternative energy, just to punish the thugs like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Venezuela.


Yeah, I picked Citgo due to its ownership. Do you work in the industry? PM me if you want with how the gasoline industry works.

Cheers


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

JRR said:


> Yeah, I picked Citgo due to its ownership. Do you work in the industry? PM me if you want with how the gasoline industry works.
> 
> Cheers


I've done some audits in the industry. Most of the Citgo stations are affiliated with Citgo, but independently owned and operated. If you do not buy your gasoline from those stations it really does not matter to Citgo the refinery. Transferring their fuel to alternative distributors, such as Shell, Chevron, Exxon, etc. is a matter of very little difficulty. It doesn't really matter to Citgo the refinery who sells their gasoline. 7-Eleven dropped the Citgo brand in September, because of Chavez, but the Citgo refineries in Louisiana, Texas, Illinois, and Gerogia continue operations. They just send their gasoline down the pipeline, and it ends up as Exxon, Shell, etc. If you are in the industry, you may know that part of the post-Katrina problem was that the Colonial Pipeline was shut down by the storm. It is one of the common carrier pipelines, carrying energy from the Louisiana refineries (including Shell, Citgo, etc.) to the East Coast.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I love it when a disclaimer of being a 'treehugger' is made when solutions largely kept alive by said people are actually looked at.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*Off topic*



Kav said:


> I love it when a disclaimer of being a 'treehugger' is made when solutions largely kept alive by said people are actually looked at.


I read "Take It Back" by Carville and Begala. In their most amusing book, they noted that most Americans are concerned about the environment, but have a negative impression of "environmentalists". I guess there is a differentiation between the message and the messengers.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

*Interesting article*

https://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=042407B


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> I think the UN should sanction him for encouraging the use of green house gas producing products and I think every liberal should boycott him for the same.


So called liberals have far more enduring affection for authoritarion socialist dictators than they do for whatever faddish ideas is being used as an excuse to increase government control.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

It's getting way too expensive to drive a car but to pay 4 dollars a gallon for gas,maybe people should be taking public transportation instead.


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## Zingari (Jul 9, 2007)

Why not come to the UK and pay $10 a gallon! Petrol prices have passed the £5 per gallon.

Drive a 4x4 and pay £950 road tax in the first year and then £25 a day to drive it through London.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Zingari said:


> Why not come to the UK and pay $10 a gallon! Petrol prices have passed the £5 per gallon.
> 
> Drive a 4x4 and pay £950 road tax in the first year and then £25 a day to drive it through London.


Why so expensive Zingari?


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

I am part of the .
What exactly is the complaint against Chavez?


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> I am part of the .
> What exactly is the complaint against Chavez?


Perhaps it's that he has a program to provide poor familes in the US with heating oil? Not my favorite guy in the world, but I'd say he's not the worst either.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Zingari said:


> Why not come to the UK and pay $10 a gallon! Petrol prices have passed the £5 per gallon.
> 
> Drive a 4x4 and pay £950 road tax in the first year and then £25 a day to drive it through London.


Yikes! Your government sure knows how to soak you for money.

As for gas hitting $4/gallon. If it does, people will still drive, they'll just complain more. People said they would start driving less if it hit $3/gallon, ut that didn't happen.


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## Zingari (Jul 9, 2007)

*UK Taxes*



Howard said:


> Why so expensive Zingari?


Its to do with the amount of tax on fuel. I can't remember the proportion but I think it is circa 65% of every gallon.

The whole system discriminates against those that need a 4x4 for a purpose - i,e country farming etc. Where I live the black Range Rover Sport or Vogue is seen as an upmarket must have vehicle - even if only to collect the shopping or kids and never sees any off road activity.

Even 'scroats/chavs' with far too much bling drive them - rented for £500+ per week!


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

*German Solution in WWII*

In WWII, Nazi Germany had little petroleum, except for Rumania. (Great description of this in "Masters of the Air" by Donald Miller, describing the history of the 8th Air Force.)

The Nazis thus developed a huge synthetic fuel capacity involving hydrogen under pressure, turning brown coal, or lignite, into synthetic fuel. The 8th Air Force targeted these facilities, without great success.

If the technique was available in the 40s, maybe it is time to go that route again. A scientist friend of mine from Exxon says that the technique is viable, but expensive.

The kingdom of Heaven runs on righteousness, the rest of the world runs on petroleum.

If we don't want to be at the mercy of people that want to destroy our society, if solar, wind, ethanol, are of limited value, and if we don't want to drill in Anwar, and off shore in the US, maybe synthetic is worth considering.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Zingari said:


> Its to do with the amount of tax on fuel. I can't remember the proportion but I think it is circa 65% of every gallon.
> 
> The whole system discriminates against those that need a 4x4 for a purpose - i,e country farming etc. Where I live the black Range Rover Sport or Vogue is seen as an upmarket must have vehicle - even if only to collect the shopping or kids and never sees any off road activity.
> 
> Even 'scroats/chavs' with far too much bling drive them - rented for £500+ per week!


When I left Canada in about 1991, there was a "gaz guzzler" tax already in place. As an example, I remember a Jeep Cherokee at the time was hit with a $1500 "gas guzzler" tax. I have no idea if that tax is still in place, exactly the same, or has increased.


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## obiwan (Feb 2, 2007)

brokencycle said:


> Yikes! Your government sure knows how to soak you for money.
> 
> As for gas hitting $4/gallon. If it does, people will still drive, they'll just complain more. People said they would start driving less if it hit $3/gallon, ut that didn't happen.


It is going to change how I get to work. My office is approximately 100 miles away, I currently drive 52 miles to catch the BART train, which takes me 1.5 to 3 hours depending on traffic, then 30 minutes on the train.

Starting next month, I will take a regional transit bus to a BART station. It makes for a longer day as I am picked up @ 4:26 am, arrive at the BART station @ 6:15 am, then 40 minutes on the train.

My arrival @ home is 7:10 pm which isn't too bad, I can read, catch up on some work or watch a movie on my laptop on the way home.

The clincher for me, I currently spend $140 a week on fuel for 4 days a week in the office, the bus service is $135 per month.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Why in the wide wide world of sports do you live so far away from your work?

BTW, your post reminds me, something I've been saying for a while now is we need to get Maglev trains going in this country. It's pathetic that the US is still rolling around in slow lumbering trains while every other developed nation has high-speed public transit. Even if it's railed, like the TGV, that'd be fine with me.


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## obiwan (Feb 2, 2007)

marlinspike said:


> Why in the wide wide world of sports do you live so far away from your work?
> 
> BTW, your post reminds me, something I've been saying for a while now is we need to get Maglev trains going in this country. It's pathetic that the US is still rolling around in slow lumbering trains while every other developed nation has high-speed public transit. Even if it's railed, like the TGV, that'd be fine with me.


I work in San Francisco for a nice 6 figure salary, with a non-working spouse and 3 children, we can't afford to and choose not to live in San Francisco. Even the east bay is $800K. We have 2300 sq. ft. on a 7400 sq. ft. lot 2 story in a nice area for under $500K.

As a side note, when I first started with this company I was a telecommuter and only went to the office 1 day a week, as I have risen in the company and taken on more duties, I am required to be in the office 4 days a week.


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