# Ralph Lauren Brand & Label Pecking order



## sia

Can anyone definitively rank the various Ralph Lauren brands and label colors?


Polo by Ralph Lauren
Ralph Lauren Purple Label
Ralph Lauren
Black Label
Blue Label
Lauren by Ralph Lauren
Polo Jeans Co.
RRL
RLX
Rugby
Chaps
Club Monaco
Polo University
Polo Denim
Green Label
Silver Label


Am I missing any? Some of these are actual brands, some are just label colors. What does it all mean? I know Purple is (or at least was) the top dog. Where does everything else fit?


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## omairp

Top to Bottom (dress clothes collections):

Purple Label
Black Label
Blue Label (this is Polo by Ralph Lauren)
Silver Label
Lauren by Ralph Lauren (I think this is green label)

The rest are casual collections if I'm not mistaken. I dunno how they rank. They may be similar, just aimed at different market segments. Chaps is the absolute lowest on the list, and Club Monaco is ran like a completely separate company, so it doesn't fit neatly on the list.


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## Orgetorix

I thought Chaps was a defunct label. At least there used to be suits with that label.


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## jamgood

Suits, Sport coats, Better Trousers (any more info is too complicated and items are not licensed, but contracted in most cases)

RL Purple Label hand tailored by SaintAndrews which has changed its name to Sartoria Santandrea Milano www.st-santandrea.it (under construction?) The Santandrea trousers have a white production tag on the pocketing. The non SantAndrea trousers have a purple production tag on the pocketing. (Made by Chester Barrie in Crewe, England until about 2001)

RL Purple Label non-hand tailored. Reportedly by Cantarelli, the owner of St. Andrews until spring 2006. Unconfirmed. Considerably less expensive than the SantAndrea.

RALPH LAUREN (blue label) better constructed Corneliani than Polo. Similar styles. Models = Jerome #

Polo Ralph Lauren can run $1200 to over $2000 per suit depending on fabric and tailoring factors. Sport coats from roughly $1000 in wools to $2000 in cashmere tweeds. Corneliani. Trousers $325+ If a Polo item has a Made In Italy label it was probably made by some unit of Corneliani. Corneliani since 1999.

Ralph Lauren Black Label trim suits currently about $1600? Maker ? Not the same production tags as Corneliani. I'd guess L.....

Lauren (green label) made in Canada by Peerless. $?

Chaps is still in the stable. Kohl's may have it exclusively. Dunno

I don't think Polo University is made anymore.

Rugby is a line originally targeted at college students.


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## zarathustra

Chaps is sold primarily at Kohls now.


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## sartort

Jamgood, you trailed off on your guess for black label. care to take a stab?


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## DocHolliday

Recent investigative work at SF (with Iammatt's keen eye) suggests that Black Label was recently -- and I presume still is -- being made by Ma.Co, a small shop that sold its stuff under the Raffaelle Caruso brand and also does work for other labels.


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## DocHolliday

Jamgood, are you sure Chaps is still a RL brand? I had heard that it had been spun off into an independent entity, and my nearest Belk undertook quite the project of replacing all the "Ralph Lauren Chaps" signs with ones that just say "Chaps." Considering they had to rip them out of the walls, it seemed like a lot of effort for a small change.


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## sartort

thanks Doc! Knowing that you own Polo/Blue label and Black label clothing, would you agree that the MA Co. stuff is better than Corneliani? Or is Black Label priced higher due to cut/style/branding?


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## jamgood

Try going on the RL web site and checking on the retailers listed for your state. I did this about a year ago. After the one RL store (we're backwards) and several Factory Outlets, other retailers were listed including pro shops. Towarge the end of the list Kohl's locations began appearing. Puzzled, I realized that Kohl's advertised Chaps every Sunday in the bird cage liner. That may have changed, but I think there has just been a disassociation of the RL. RL has a luxury/exclusivity image re-branding strategery, even though you can still buy OCBDs in the T J Maxx for $30, about $10 less than the Factory Outlet nearby and $40 less than the RL store across town. Which is in the same mall as about 5 Polo retailers. Go figure. Chaps as a brand is listed on page 7 of the most recent SEC form 10K and the major licensees are listed 2 or 3 pages later. You can confirm the Corneliani license for ALL Polo brand tailored clothing. Apparently RLPL is contracted rather than licensed. I seem to recall that Chester Barrie RLPL had a license, but I could be mistaken. You can also read about the formation of RL watches and jewelry and other stuff. It ain't all numbers. Google: Polo Ralph Lauren 10K Several services offer a link. You may be more comfortable with the Business Week link. Paragraph.


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## jamgood

www.raffaelecaruso.it What else is located on the Red Cross Road in Parma? A pair of genuine woven shoe laces to the winner!

Are we sure about Ma Co.? Could it relate to the bank Mercato Alternativo del Capitale, or MAC. I kaint read English none two good, much less Itai. There are links indicating some type of negotiation between RC & MAC when browsed.

I usually specialize in RLPL & PRL but have one 44L RLBL black 9 oz. 120's gab to list some time. I can't see that it's $400 better made than a similar Polo, but what do I know. I think the BL line is targeted at a supposedly more hip young urban type. Trimmer, narrower lapels and 2 buttons. Lower rise trousers. Similar to Paul Stuart's Phineas only in the Amish colour palette, sans cornflower blue shirt.

Folks don't know, or have forgotten, that just after the launch of RLPL there was a line of RL with the same signature as RLPL but on a blue label. It was made by the Polo maker of the time but was supposed to be similar to PL in style. It was a little more expensive than Polo and lasted 2 or 3 years. Better fabrics and, often, belt-less trousers. Trimmer. Supposedly targeted at a similar demographic to the current BL.

It's all so confusing from the perspective of a rural "rustic" modular abode in the middle of a soya field in non-metropolitan Kalina. Gotta go check the traps. I'll try to minimize variations of "suppose" in the future. I'm so limited.


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## trims

To add some info:



sia said:


> Lauren by Ralph Lauren -- Womens is run by Ralph, but I believe all mens "Lauren" is strictly licensee
> 
> Polo Jeans Co. -- fairly recently reaquired, and looks to be heading up
> 
> RRL -- very rustic, Ralph's pet label for many years
> 
> RLX -- very techy
> 
> Rugby -- still seems to be finding it's foothold and correct demographic, what some might see as modern trad taken to extremes.
> 
> Club Monaco -- owned by Ralph, completely separate entity. Did you know that Thom Browne used to be the head designer?
> 
> Green Label -- isn't this just Lauren?


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## Flashy

Jamgood, Kohls does, or did, sell some Lauren Green Label shirts, maybe some other items from that line as well. 

There's also a Ralph line of dress pants and overcoats sold at Dillards and similar stores. Seems about on par with Lauren stuff.


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## Rossini

Is any of the RL stuff any/particularly good? I owned a RL suit about 10 years ago and really liked it. Apart from socks, I haven't gone near the brand since because of the stigma associated with it (hype/preppie/wannabe/etc). I recently ordered a purple lable tie, knowing that (I think) they started out as a tie manufacturer and so may have some credibility in that area. So, my question is: what gems has my unreasonable and unfounded bias precluded me from wearing and enjoying - or, throughout the various lines of RL discussed above, are there specific garments that are particularly good quality or value at each level?


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## trims

Rossini said:


> Is any of the RL stuff any/particularly good? I owned a RL suit about 10 years ago and really liked it. Apart from socks, I haven't gone near the brand since because of the stigma associated with it (hype/preppie/wannabe/etc). I recently ordered a purple lable tie, knowing that (I think) they started out as a tie manufacturer and so may have some credibility in that area. So, my question is: what gems has my unreasonable and unfounded bias precluded me from wearing and enjoying - or, throughout the various lines of RL discussed above, are there specific garments that are particularly good quality or value at each level?


I'll leave the specifics to others, but there are good values to be had at several Polo levels, and overall very good garments at the higher levels.

Don't put too much faith in their ties though, Ralph started as a tie salesman for another firm, and yes, Polo originally started by making ties, but they're not anything particularly special. I doubt you'll be disappointed, but I don't think you'll be 'wowed' either.


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## JRR

Chaps is part of VanHeusen now


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## Northeastern

JRR said:


> Chaps is part of VanHeusen now


Chaps was always a licensed brand of PRL. Prior to PVH I believe Warnaco owned the rights to the brand.


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## DocHolliday

trims said:


> I'll leave the specifics to others, but there are good values to be had at several Polo levels, and overall very good garments at the higher levels.
> 
> Don't put too much faith in their ties though, Ralph started as a tie salesman for another firm, and yes, Polo originally started by making ties, but they're not anything particularly special. I doubt you'll be disappointed, but I don't think you'll be 'wowed' either.


Purple Label and Black Label make very nice, fully canvassed suits and sportcoats, if you like the cut. (Black is very trim.) The Polo suits by Corneliani are partly fused, but it's some of the best fusing out there, and I happen to like the overall aesthetic. I'd be hard pressed to pay Ralph's absurd retail for a Polo suit, but they're often found on deep discount in interesting styles and configurations. Be careful with the Polo stuff, though -- only the better stuff is made in Italy, while a lot of the department-store merch is made in Eastern Europe. $700 for a fused sportcoat from Slovakia? No thanks.

I'll second trims' comment about the PL ties. I've yet to see a tie from Ralph that has really wowed me in terms of construction/silk. I do, though, own several Polo knits, and give Ralph kudos for keeping them readily available. Overall, my impression of Ralph's ties is that they're often a bit stiff and don't drape that attractively.

Similarly, I find Ralph's shirts -- even the PL ones -- just OK. PL strikes me as underwhelming at $350, or even $200. But the increasingly rare PL shoes by Edward Green are extremely nice, particularly when found at half off retail. Even Green's sale can't beat Ralph's sale price.

Overall, Ralph makes some very nice stuff, but it takes a discriminating eye to sort the wheat from the chaff. As for Corneliani v. Black Label, I find it a tough comparison. I'd put the BL stuff on about equal footing with Corneliani -- they're both fully canvassed, mostly machine made coats with some handwork. Corneliani is more conservative, yet, for me, very elegant.


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## SirSuturesALot

Doc, just to clarify, are you underwhelmed by the Black Label shirts as well? I bought one for $175 and I like the way it looks (especially the modern cut collar), but am a little disappointed by the build quality. I'm wrestling with myself over whether or not to return it.


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## emorel98

jamgood said:


> www.raffaelecaruso.it What else is located on the Red Cross Road in Parma? A pair of genuine woven shoe laces to the winner!


Whoever makes Caruso, also makes Lanvin, RL Black Label, Dunhill (the older made in Italy line, not the current junk), Jil Sander Tailored, some Boss Baldessarini.


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## DocHolliday

SirSuturesALot said:


> Doc, just to clarify, are you underwhelmed by the Black Label shirts as well? I bought one for $175 and I like the way it looks (especially the modern cut collar), but am a little disappointed by the build quality. I'm wrestling with myself over whether or not to return it.


I've only seen a few BL shirts, but my reaction was similar to the PL shirts: I'd buy 'em on significant discount but not at full retail. But bear in mind, I'm cheap.


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## Tiberias

jamgood said:


> Polo Ralph Lauren can run $1200 to over $2000 per suit depending on fabric and tailoring factors. Sport coats from roughly $1000 in wools to $2000 in cashmere tweeds. Corneliani. Trousers $325+ If a Polo item has a Made In Italy label it was probably made by some unit of Corneliani. Corneliani since 1999.
> 
> Ralph Lauren Black Label trim suits currently about $1600? Maker ? Not the same production tags as Corneliani. I'd guess L.....


If someone can think about a suit at $2000, couldn't they also think about a suit at $5000? If so, why bother with high-end fashion garments--made by a machine to standard sizes in a factory just like the $300 suits--and simply save up for an MTM or even bespoke suit? I'll be honest, the $1500 to $3000 price range on RTW suits makes absolutely zero sense to me. Am I missing something?


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## son of brummell

A couple of questions and an observation:

1. Does Polo make anything in the USA? I recall that it used to own a suit factory or two, and the current Oxxford team (Mike Cohen [CEO] and Rocco [head tailor/designer]) used to work out of the Ralph Lauren factory in Mass. It was closed.

2. Has Polo, which celebrates the English, American, and "trad" looks, abandoned all manufacturing in the USA and UK?

3. I realize that Polo is a fantastically successful business and that it has all sorts of labels and products to cater to all price points. But hasn't Polo diluted its name as a luxury maker by having so many different labels? Hasn't Polo lost its "specialness" by trying to appeal to everyone? Also, has it diluted its name by selling its goods at various discount outlets including its own outlets?


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## emorel98

son of brummell said:


> A couple of questions and an observation:
> 
> 1. Does Polo make anything in the USA? I recall that it used to own a suit factory or two, and the current Oxxford team (Mike Cohen [CEO] and Rocco [head tailor/designer]) used to work out of the Ralph Lauren factory in Mass. It was closed.
> 
> 2. Has Polo, which celebrates the English, American, and "trad" looks, abandoned all manufacturing in the USA and UK?
> 
> 3. I realize that Polo is a fantastically successful business and that it has all sorts of labels and products to cater to all price points. But hasn't Polo diluted its name as a luxury maker by having so many different labels? Hasn't Polo lost its "specialness" by trying to appeal to everyone? Also, has it diluted its name by selling its goods at various discount outlets including its own outlets?


1. No (as far as I understand)
2. Essentially yes.
3. No. You'd be hard pressed to find Black Label and Purple Label at Polo outlets and if you want to know how popular Purple Lable is, go to an MTM event at the mansion. Quite frankly, for all the guff RL takes, a case can be made that it is the "best" brand in the world, in terms of men's tailored clothing. He has essentially every price point covered in the brick and mortar world, has an outlet following, and his stuff also makes it to the ebay's of the world allowing the cheap among us to clad ourselves in $3-4K suits for $600-700. Effectively, he covers every segment of the buying population. Yet, as I mentioned, there is no prestige loss in the BL and PL lines or even the Blue label (made in Italy) for that matter. How many other brands can or have done that? Keep in mind that he is not a luxury maker, he is a luxury brand. If the St. Andrews factory that is making the Purple Label was also making the green tagged Lauren crap, then there would be dilution.


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## Holdfast

DocHolliday said:


> Overall, Ralph makes some very nice stuff, but it takes a discriminating eye to sort the wheat from the chaff.


Quoted for emphasis and truth. There are some fab RL items out there but a lot of dross too. But the good items are often great.


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## Rossini

I'm not so sure about 3). I think tremendous damage has been done to Polo - the brand line - specifically and RL - the brand owner/umbrella brand - in general (though I'm sure their profit lines would attest to the contrary). The precise reason why I personally wouldn't normally consider RL as a higher-end option is because of the association with the lower-quality polo stuff and aspirational/wannabe vibe that is associated with the brand which, unfortunately, has been further damaged by imitators (cf. the hilfigerization of the imagination-less populace). 

That's why I'm curious to reinvestigate what RL actually has to offer in terms of quality especially at the upper end for different lines and clothes types, as my viewpoint has been probably unfairly blinkered by the ubiquity and bastardization of Polo.


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## trims

Rossini said:


> I'm not so sure about 3). I think tremendous damage has been done to Polo - the brand line - specifically and RL - the brand owner/umbrella brand - in general (though I'm sure their profit lines would attest to the contrary). The precise reason why I personally wouldn't normally consider RL as a higher-end option is because of the association with the lower-quality polo stuff and aspirational/wannabe vibe that is associated with the brand which, unfortunately, has been further damaged by imitators (cf. the hilfigerization of the imagination-less populace).


Your point of view represents a small minority of Polo customers, although it may be the majority on this board. The increase in bottom line from Lauren, and the new American Living line will more than offset a few less buyers of Purple Label who think the brand is being diluted. Polo is a publicly traded company, not a niche artisan.


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## okdc

I also get confused. So let me see if I have this right?

1. Purple Label
2. Black Label
3. Polo (on a blue label and made in Italy and made by Corneliani, maybe is no longer being made)
4. Polo (the standard you see on the website)
(Where can you find the blue label and why is it not on the website?)
5. Green Label (Lauren by Ralph Lauren)
6. American something or other, at JC Penneys
7. Chaps, at Kohls

Then there is Rugby and Club Monaco which are separate stores. 1, 2, 3, and 4 are at the Polo retail stores and high end department stores. 5, 6, and 7 are at Macys, JC P. and Kohls. Is that right? Again, some clarification about 3 and 4 would be helpful. Thanks.


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## trims

Tiberias said:


> If someone can think about a suit at $2000, couldn't they also think about a suit at $5000? If so, why bother with high-end fashion garments--made by a machine to standard sizes in a factory just like the $300 suits--and simply save up for an MTM or even bespoke suit? I'll be honest, the $1500 to $3000 price range on RTW suits makes absolutely zero sense to me. Am I missing something?


Average American consumer? Not really. $2000 is a lot of money to most people. Most people would consider it absurd for a suit, but might splurge once or twice for a big new job, etc. I would bet that for most people that own a Polo suit, it's the most expensive they'll ever own. There's a price range for every market segment.

And comparing a $300 suit to a $1500 suit because they're both machine made to standard sizes is completely apples to oranges.


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## Rossini

trims said:


> Your point of view represents a small minority of Polo customers, although it may be the majority on this board. The increase in bottom line from Lauren, and the new American Living line will more than offset a few less buyers of Purple Label who think the brand is being diluted. Polo is a publicly traded company, not a niche artisan.


Just to be clear, it's not that I don't want to buy Purple Label or other RL brands, it's just that (holding my hands up) I don't consider it as I don't understand it and the obfuscation of the multiple brands on offer from RL allied to the over-populatisation of Polo has made it harder for me. Hence my questions to try and understand what RL does well - I would be happy to seek out and wear good pieces if they really are good, and, through this thread, it's becoming a bit clearer for me.


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## DocHolliday

okdc said:


> I also get confused. So let me see if I have this right?
> 
> 1. Purple Label
> 2. Black Label
> 3. Polo (on a blue label and made in Italy and made by Corneliani, maybe is no longer being made)
> 4. Polo (the standard you see on the website)
> (Where can you find the blue label and why is it not on the website?)
> 5. Green Label (Lauren by Ralph Lauren)
> 6. American something or other, at JC Penneys
> 7. Chaps, at Kohls
> 
> Then there is Rugby and Club Monaco which are separate stores. 1, 2, 3, and 4 are at the Polo retail stores and high end department stores. 5, 6, and 7 are at Macys, JC P. and Kohls. Is that right? Again, some clarification about 3 and 4 would be helpful. Thanks.


Polo BL stuff is still being made by Corneliani. There are, however, also other makers. The made in Italy stuff is better quality, and generally sells at a significantly higher price, than the items made in, say, Slovakia. The higher price point means the Corneliani stuff is unlikely to show up in the lower-end department stores. It's all the result of Ralph's all-encompassing pricing strategy


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## DocHolliday

Tiberias said:


> If someone can think about a suit at $2000, couldn't they also think about a suit at $5000? If so, why bother with high-end fashion garments--made by a machine to standard sizes in a factory just like the $300 suits--and simply save up for an MTM or even bespoke suit? I'll be honest, the $1500 to $3000 price range on RTW suits makes absolutely zero sense to me. Am I missing something?


Bear in mind that these $1,500 to $3,000 suits can often be found for $750 or less. Also, buying OTR, if you find a brand that fits you well, is much quicker and less hassle than MTM and bespoke. It's also a known quantity. You see it, you like it, you buy it, you know exactly what you're taking home. MTM and bespoke are much riskier propositions. Get a salesguy who doesn't know how to measure properly, and that MTM suit could look worse than one OTR.

Finally, there are a lot of folks for whom a nice OTR suit is quite good enough, and who would rather save the extra cash. Going from a $1,500 OTR number to a $3,000-$5,000 bespoke is still quite a bit of money.

Not that I'm trying to suggest OTR is superior to MTM or bespoke. I'm just reeling off some of the virtues of higher-end OTR.


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## Tiberias

trims said:


> And comparing a $300 suit to a $1500 suit because they're both machine made to standard sizes is completely apples to oranges.


I have serious doubts about that. It's becoming more and more clear that many "luxury" brands are being made in the exact same overseas factories that make the discount goods. The consumer is paying extra for slightly better materials and maybe slightly better design, but mostly for the brand name. I think the gap between discount and luxury has narrowed sharply, half because of improvements in discount and half because of cost-cutting in luxury (not bespoke or custom, which has retained its quality.)

That said, it sounds like Ralph Lauren may be an exception, as they've kept their luxury production separate from their mainstream production. Even so, if I could afford four figures for a suit (I can't ), I wouldn't even think about a factory-made suit, no matter what the label.



Rossini said:


> Just to be clear, it's not that I don't want to buy Purple Label or other RL brands, it's just that (holding my hands up) I don't consider it as I don't understand it and the obfuscation of the multiple brands on offer from RL allied to the over-populatisation of Polo has made it harder for me.


That's a serious problem for marketing for RL. If you're having difficulty figuring out which of their product lines you should be buying, that means that they're not effectively differentiating or positioning their product. You might say that they have a case of General Motors-itis.

I wish that that was all my own sharp insight , but I have to confess that my impression of RL's branding problems is from my marketing professor, who worked as a marketing consultant for RL, and who complained on many occasions of the dilution of their brand. The best route may be what they have done with Club Monaco, create a separate entity that can be uniquely positioned and that won't be seen as diluting a luxury brand.


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## okdc

Doc,

When you say BL does that mean Blue or Black label?


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## SirSuturesALot

okdc said:


> Doc,
> 
> When you say BL does that mean Blue or Black label?


Oops! Blue Label it is


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## DocHolliday

Tiberias said:


> I have serious doubts about that. It's becoming more and more clear that many "luxury" brands are being made in the exact same overseas factories that make the discount goods.


This is true to some degree, but a discerning eye can tell the difference. C&J is a far better shoe than a pair of Prada gluejobs, but you wouldn't know that from the price points alone. That's where it's important to be an informed consumer. There's a huge difference in a $1,500 Corneliani and a $300 fused "Armando" at Men's Wearhouse, and the chasm between them is obvious to those who know what to look for. It's the widespread lack of consumer awareness that lets Ralph charge a premium for his lesser goods just because his name is on them.



okdc said:


> Doc,
> 
> When you say BL does that mean Blue or Black label?


I use it to mean "Blue Label," but I should be more clear. I'll try to be more specific in the future.


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## emorel98

Tiberias said:


> I have serious doubts about that. It's becoming more and more clear that many "luxury" brands are being made in the exact same overseas factories that make the discount goods. The consumer is paying extra for slightly better materials and maybe slightly better design, but mostly for the brand name. I think the gap between discount and luxury has narrowed sharply, half because of improvements in discount and half because of cost-cutting in luxury (not bespoke or custom, which has retained its quality.)
> 
> That said, it sounds like Ralph Lauren may be an exception, as they've kept their luxury production separate from their mainstream production. Even so, if I could afford four figures for a suit (I can't ), I wouldn't even think about a factory-made suit, no matter what the label.
> 
> That's a serious problem for marketing for RL. If you're having difficulty figuring out which of their product lines you should be buying, that means that they're not effectively differentiating or positioning their product. You might say that they have a case of General Motors-itis.
> 
> I wish that that was all my own sharp insight , but I have to confess that my impression of RL's branding problems is from my marketing professor, who worked as a marketing consultant for RL, and who complained on many occasions of the dilution of their brand. The best route may be what they have done with Club Monaco, create a separate entity that can be uniquely positioned and that won't be seen as diluting a luxury brand.


Just because he is having trouble differentiating, does not mean everyone else is. 
Ralph Lauren Purple Label is considered to be at the top the the "American" branded clothing. Oxxford is a more labor intensive product, but it does not have the styling nor the "prestige" of RLPL. RL Black Label is also quite in demand. The Blue Lable made by Corneliani stuff is considered a very good, stylish workhorse product for the price. Below those levels are products which are geared to a much more price conscious customer. While he who buys a "Lauren" made in Mexico or China product may think he is getting a similar garment to the RLPL buyer, the RLPL buyer knows full well what he has and, so far at least, is quite comfortable and assured in what he is buying. No one else in the world has had the success, for the period of time, that RL has had with this strategy. I'm sure many don't get or understand the multiple levels in his brand, but enough do that have made him probably close to a billionaire by now. Neiman, Bergdorf and all the top mens stores in the country carry Purple, Black and some Blue Label. The dilution that you talk about just isn't there in the eyes of many, many people.


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## MarkusH

Tiberias said:


> I'll be honest, the $1500 to $3000 price range on RTW suits makes absolutely zero sense to me. Am I missing something?


Yes.

Find a top-end RTW suit that fits you on sale for $1000-$2000. Take it to a good alterations tailor for some minor alterations. Then you will understand what you are missing.


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## Rossini

emorel98, the argument is not that RL is not successful nor that many many people are able to distinguish the different brands. Once you understand the hierarchy, you understand it and then you can make value judgments about the different labels and buy accordingly. But this is about identifying and quantifying the different levels for those who don't already know and, in doing so, expressing our views as to why we feel we don't already know.


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## Holdfast

But Ed raises the important point that the brands have to be a little muddled from the perspective of the lower end buyer because they have to believe they're getting a quality Ralph Lauren item when they're just buying cheap licensed goods. If Ralph Lauren made it perfectly clear that "Lauren" branded clothes aren't great quality, his sales in that segment would fall. (cf Gerald Ratner's infamous "we sell crap" speech).

What's important is that there's no confusion at the top end of the market - the internet (and eBay) certainly blurs the line more than Ralph Lauren would like. But fundamentally, at Bricks & Mortar stores - you either find the low lines or the top lines. Not the two sets together under one roof. Purple and Black Label are both high-end; the difference isn't pitched as a quality difference (though there is one), more an aesthetic difference/choice. The Polo items tagged Made in Italy is pitched as the more price-sensitive quality line. Those three lines co-exist in good stores. Almost everything else (barring some sports gear) is generally only found in cheaper stores. The lines differentiation is helped by different location of sale.


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## emorel98

Rossini said:


> emorel98, the argument is not that RL is not successful nor that many many people are able to distinguish the different brands. Once you understand the hierarchy, you understand it and then you can make value judgments about the different labels and buy accordingly. But this is about identifying and quantifying the different levels for those who don't already know and, in doing so, expressing our views as to why we feel we don't already know.


keep in mind that the majority of American consumers, at every price level, are buying brand and not construction. I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that the majority of Purple Label owners couldn't tell you who makes the suits nor why specifically they cost what they cost. So, from RL's perspective, he does not have to sell you on the relevant issues (fabrics costs etc), he just needs to sell you on the "image" that is Purple Label. On the forums we are clothing nerds and care about every minute construction detail, but that is not how the world works. Some time ago I spent a few hours with a friend, who was a shoe salesmen at Bergdorf. They carried Vass, Kiton, Mantellassi, Lobb along with the designer brands (Prada Gucci, Ferragamo). One guy came in with his girlfriend looked at some of the "good" shoes, and left with a few pairs of Gucci and Prada shoes. He liked a pair of Mantellassi, but he made the comment that "I never heard of them and they are as expensive as Gucci, I'll get those instead". The same day, the new BG shoe buyer (this was as they were about to take over the shoes dept. from To Boot), picked up a pair of Vass from the shelf, examines it and says, "these are nice but why would anyone pay this over the better known designer brands?". My point is, the brand sells more than the product. Not on these message boards, and not to those that are in the know, but the general population buys what it likes based on looks, magazine spreads, articles etc. No one has created a brand like RL that stands for so many things and is sucessful at every level.


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## okdc

Okay, so as to the lines. There are three "dressy" lines on the website. Purple Label and Black Label I get, then, and this is where it gets confusing to me, there is Polo. This appartently has two levels. The top is Blue Label made by Corneliani in Italy one a little below that not made in Italy. The website makes no distinction in the different levels of the Polo line, though apparently the Polo on Blue Lables is sold at higher end stores and is more expensive? Do I have this right now?

What stores do you see the split in the Polo label? I am guessing that Macy's has the bottom level or maybe not as I know that they have the Lauren line. Dillards? Do Bloomingdales/Lord&Taylor/Nordstrom have the high ones? Do Neimann and Saks carry any of the Polo label or just Black and Purple Label? Thanks.


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## emorel98

okdc said:


> Okay, so as to the lines. There are three "dressy" lines on the website. Purple Label and Black Label I get, then, and this is where it gets confusing to me, there is Polo. This appartently has two levels. The top is Blue Label made by Corneliani in Italy one a little below that not made in Italy. The website makes no distinction in the different levels of the Polo line, though apparently the Polo on Blue Lables is sold at higher end stores and is more expensive? Do I have this right now?


For Polo blue label all you need to worry about is country of manufacture
Made in Italy = good
Made anywhere else = bad


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## alphadelta

*Where does this suit stand in the lineup?...*

I picked up a RL wool gabardine suit recently. The jacket label (label color appears black to me) says:

RALPH 
Ralph Lauren

It is also labeled "Made in Canada".

Thanks in advance,
AD


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## Hard2Fit

emorel98 said:


> . . . the brand sells more than the product.


Marketing 101.


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## trims

Tiberias said:


> The best route may be what they have done with Club Monaco, create a separate entity that can be uniquely positioned and that won't be seen as diluting a luxury brand.


Are suggesting taking the brand, 90% of which is run out of one office with many overlapping departments, and splitting it into an additional 5-10 companies?

CM is run as a probably the most separate Polo brand except for the licensees, meaning they need their own people for just about every department.

If they did the same for purple, blue, rugby, etc, the costs would skyrocket. Many of these smaller Polo labels are able to exist because they can share resources at one address, not to mention floor space in the stores.

The man has made a fortune by being a very good businessman. For the few sales he loses by blurring the label lines, the millions he has in the bank prove he's doing something right :icon_smile_wink:


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## jamgood

On a tangent from tailored clothing.

An example of what RL does well, with relatively wide distribution, for the discerning buyer. You may not find the geezer sweater below desirable. I do. I've been collecting shawl collar cardigans since the '80s. The sweater below was hand knit in China of Italian heathered lamb's wool. Comparing the amount of time it takes to hand knit an Aran/Aaran fisherman knit sweater as claimed by a respected Scottish hand knitting firm, www.inverallanhandknitters.co.uk (Inverallan's prices are below US retail for similar sweaters to Inverallan), it took someone 90 hours and 25,000 stitches to knit the sweater below. I cannot vouch for the validity of Inverallan's claims. Apparently the sweater was made specifically for the PRL Factory Outlet stores this fall as it is featured in their large window print posters. It was priced at $150 with a comparable price of $265, then reduced to $120 and with an online discount coupon of 10% the final price was $108. Twenty years ago a similar PRL Asian hand knit sweater was priced at $395 retail in '87 dollars. Earlier in the '80s the sweater would have been hand knit in the UK at over $600 in early '80s dollars. You probably cannot find a hand knit double layer shawl collar fisherman cardigan anywhere else RTW than PRL. It would have to be commissioned at multiple times $108. And where would one find such a pattern? I collect RL's unique, vintage look sportswear and sport coats. Few other sources bother to proffer such goods. Examples ad infinitum.









For those of us who prefer the softest, roundest, more natural than "natural" RTW shirt shoulder in a suit/sport coat PRL is the best source. Especially combined with Polo's tweeds. Freedberg of Boston was the only real US competition for that particular shoulder in days of yore. Gone.









Here's RL "blue label" (Within PRL, RL blue label refers to a women's line)









RL stores have reinvented themselves as luxury retailers, including the name change to RL to reflect profferings above what one typically finds in department stores and online. Some folks do not realize that www.ralphlauren.com / polo.com only offers a small fraction of the items of a multi-billion dollar business.

RLPL started as the somber hued "Chairman Of The Board" with English shoulder and, depending on one's viewpoint, evolved/devolved into a predominantly fashion-forward luxury line on the runway.

Most of the tailored goods are currently too short and trim for more traditional tastes.

Brand dilution is something they've been addressing since a statement in the annual report several years ago. (2004?)

Whatever you think of Mr. Lauren, and RL has overcome several missteps in the last 40 years, the firm has prospered because he has maintained control. And despite the mistakes Mr. Lauren apparently knows, now with the discipline of professional business management, what he's doing. However, they can't be happy with the recent stock decline. Especially with the hoopla during PRL's 40th anniversary.

Polo used to make its suits and sport coats. I do not think it currently manufactures anything. Everything is contracted or licensed. PRL develops, contracts/licenses, inventories, distributes and markets.

From time to time, some items are made in the US. Perhaps more often in the women's purple label and black label, but occassionally in men's clothing. I noticed that there is currently a US made men's hand sewn bow tie mocassin shoe on the web site.

Not responsible for anything above.


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## Hard2Fit

The amount you know about this company is scary.


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## Tiberias

> I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that the majority of Purple Label owners couldn't tell you who makes the suits nor why specifically they cost what they cost. So, from RL's perspective, he does not have to sell you on the relevant issues (fabrics costs etc), he just needs to sell you on the "image" that is Purple Label.


Exactly. And the problem is that the clothing labels are perfectly aware of that--which is why even some of the high-end among them have quietly cut corners, because the cost savings are enormous compared to the tiny reduction in reputation that they suffer from the few people who actually understand quality.

And that's why I buy cheap stuff. I know what I'm getting--mediocre fabric, average design, typical machine construction. But with a luxury brand, I have no idea what I'm getting--that $1500 suit could turn out to be partially fused, and that "Made in Italy" tag may have been the only thing sewn in Italy onto a garment otherwise manufactured in China. Only when you go with handmade clothes made by obscure (to me!) specialists who rely on their reputation, not their brand, can you be absolutely assured of quality.

Of course RL has made a ton of money. But then, so has Wal-mart. But the luxury brands have to be worried--the discounters are steadily closing the gap, bringing in name-brand designers and using heavy marketing to reduce the name-brand advantage of the luxury labels. Even more serious is the shortening of the supply chain. Luxury brands used to prosper because their products were the first on the shelves with the new fashions. Now mid-level retailers like Zara can actually beat the luxury brands in time to market, and even mass discounters like Target aren't far behind, catching up to fashions in a few months when it used to take them years.

As long as the luxury brands are about brand and not quality, they're vulnerable. But quality is expensive and isn't good for profit margins, and so frankly I don't expect any brand of any significant size to return to it anytime soon.


----------



## Rossini

jamgood said:


>


I saw this on another post recently and was admiring it. I actually think its rather lovely. Nothing like what I would normally wear, but lovely for a weekend away in Winter. My local high-end RL store sadly stocks nothing so artisan looking.


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## DocHolliday

Tiberias said:


> As long as the luxury brands are about brand and not quality, they're vulnerable. But quality is expensive and isn't good for profit margins, and so frankly I don't expect any brand of any significant size to return to it anytime soon.


I'm actually impressed at the quality Ralph has offered, and largely continues to offer, in his high-end stuff. Most folks can't tell a fully canvassed suit from a top-quality one, yet the upper RL lines are fully canvassed and very well made. That he maintains a relationship with EG is fairly incredible, considering the weak dollar. For the most part, spending more with Ralph gets you more.


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## jamgood

^^ Color:"Defender Green"

Stumbled across this RRL oriented web site (not me) https://ralphlipschitz.tripod.com

Used RRL leather jackets on eBay can fetch several times their original retail prices.

There are people out there, licensed to drive automobiles, that call themselves poloheads and bid up certain eBay RL "collectibles" auctions to ridiculous prices. About 5 years ago I auctioned a new zip front shawl collar hand knit wool sweater with a ski scene. I think the retail had been $395 and I think it probably fetched about $130. The sweater below is the same and fetched, used, $676 this past August. And August is one of the worst times to auction such things. Go figure.

















The bear sweaters are almost as bad. Fifteen years ago I could have stocked up on them at a steep discount from retail had I known there would be an eBay and people crazy enough to pay over $400 for a collectible/collectable Polo Bear sweater.


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## EL72

trims said:


> Are suggesting taking the brand, 90% of which is run out of one office with many overlapping departments, and splitting it into an additional 5-10 companies?
> 
> CM is run as a probably the most separate Polo brand except for the licensees, meaning they need their own people for just about every department.
> 
> If they did the same for purple, blue, rugby, etc, the costs would skyrocket. Many of these smaller Polo labels are able to exist because they can share resources at one address, not to mention floor space in the stores.


Club Monaco was a Canadian retailer founded by Joe Mimran and bought by RL in 1999.


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## trims

EL72 said:


> Club Monaco was a Canadian retailer founded by Joe Mimran and bought by RL in 1999.


Yes, and the Toronto home office was shut down several years ago. Now run out of their 26th street office in the same building as Tommy Hil.


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## Matt S

okdc said:


> Okay, so as to the lines. There are three "dressy" lines on the website. Purple Label and Black Label I get, then, and this is where it gets confusing to me, there is Polo. This appartently has two levels. The top is Blue Label made by Corneliani in Italy one a little below that not made in Italy. The website makes no distinction in the different levels of the Polo line, though apparently the Polo on Blue Lables is sold at higher end stores and is more expensive? Do I have this right now?
> 
> What stores do you see the split in the Polo label? I am guessing that Macy's has the bottom level or maybe not as I know that they have the Lauren line. Dillards? Do Bloomingdales/Lord&Taylor/Nordstrom have the high ones? Do Neimann and Saks carry any of the Polo label or just Black and Purple Label? Thanks.


Macy's and Lord & Taylor don't carry the Polo tailored clothing, only the casual clothing. For tailored clothing they have Lauren line (Macy's I know has at least the Green Label, while Lord & Taylor has both the Green and Silver labels). My local Bloomingdales has Polo Blue Label tailored and casual clothing. Neiman Marcus I know has Purple Label, but I don't know if they have Black. I'm not as familiar with the current stocks of Nordstrom and Saks.


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## emorel98

Tiberias said:


> Exactly. And the problem is that the clothing labels are perfectly aware of that--which is why even some of the high-end among them have quietly cut corners, because the cost savings are enormous compared to the tiny reduction in reputation that they suffer from the few people who actually understand quality.


But that is Ralph's greatness, that he does not cut corners at the top end. edward Green for shoes, St. Andrews for suits (previously Chester Barrie), Lorenzini for shirts (previously Turnbull), even the Ralph Lauren Blue Label (not polo blue label) has been upgraded to Caruso for the suits jackets. He can probably go to cheaper factories with all these brands, due to their popularity, and not lose any significant revenue. That is what makes his brand so amazing, if you want cheap, average, expensive or super expensive, Ralph is your man and at each tier, you are definitely getting a good bang for your buck relative to competitors. the fact that it is also so accesible online (ebay, discounters etc) is like icing on the cake for the thrifty among us and serves as a great clearinghouse for RL, without having to have loads of Purple Lable or Blue Label on the racks at TJ Maxx.


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## Tiberias

emorel98 said:


> But that is Ralph's greatness, that he does not cut corners at the top end. edward Green for shoes, St. Andrews for suits (previously Chester Barrie), Lorenzini for shirts (previously Turnbull), even the Ralph Lauren Blue Label (not polo blue label) has been upgraded to Caruso for the suits jackets. He can probably go to cheaper factories with all these brands, due to their popularity, and not lose any significant revenue. That is what makes his brand so amazing, if you want cheap, average, expensive or super expensive, Ralph is your man and at each tier, you are definitely getting a good bang for your buck relative to competitors.


If that's the case, then I commend the company. I suppose my concerns are directed more at the other luxury labels who have sold out to mass low-cost production even while retaining their higher prices. But RL should be concerned that regular consumers like myself have no clue about the distinction in the labels. That's a failure of marketing and product positioning.

After searching my wardrobe, I found out that I do, in fact, have some RL products. But they're green label, and if I hadn't read all of this I would simply have assumed that the purple and black labels were the same stuff, just with fancier designs and a higher price tag. If RL wants to take advantage of their edge in quality, they need to get the marketing machine in gear and start thinking about differentiating their labels.


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## DocHolliday

emorel98 said:


> But that is Ralph's greatness, that he does not cut corners at the top end. edward Green for shoes, St. Andrews for suits (previously Chester Barrie), Lorenzini for shirts (previously Turnbull), even the Ralph Lauren Blue Label (not polo blue label) has been upgraded to Caruso for the suits jackets. He can probably go to cheaper factories with all these brands, due to their popularity, and not lose any significant revenue. That is what makes his brand so amazing, if you want cheap, average, expensive or super expensive, Ralph is your man and at each tier, you are definitely getting a good bang for your buck relative to competitors. the fact that it is also so accesible online (ebay, discounters etc) is like icing on the cake for the thrifty among us and serves as a great clearinghouse for RL, without having to have loads of Purple Lable or Blue Label on the racks at TJ Maxx.


I do wonder, though, about the recent increase in Italian shoes. Maybe the dollar is just too weak against the pound, but I find it disappointing.


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## Matt S

Tiberias said:


> But RL should be concerned that regular consumers like myself have no clue about the distinction in the labels. That's a failure of marketing and product positioning.
> 
> After searching my wardrobe, I found out that I do, in fact, have some RL products.  But they're green label, and if I hadn't read all of this I would simply have assumed that the purple and black labels were the same stuff, just with fancier designs and a higher price tag. If RL wants to take advantage of their edge in quality, they need to get the marketing machine in gear and start thinking about differentiating their labels.


People who are interested in buying the more expensive lines would be able to tell the difference in quality and style.


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## lee_44106

Tiberias said:


> If that's the case, then I commend the company. I suppose my concerns are directed more at the other luxury labels who have sold out to mass low-cost production even while retaining their higher prices. But RL should be concerned that regular consumers like myself have no clue about the distinction in the labels. That's a failure of marketing and product positioning.
> 
> After searching my wardrobe, I found out that I do, in fact, have some RL products. But they're green label, and if I hadn't read all of this I would simply have assumed that the purple and black labels were the same stuff, just with fancier designs and a higher price tag. If RL wants to take advantage of their edge in quality, they need to get the marketing machine in gear and start thinking about differentiating their labels.


YOU may not know the difference between purple, black, green, silver, blue, but the ones who can afford the purple label, which is RL's top of the line, knows exactly what they are buying. Maybe not the nitty-gritty of construction/fabric/etc, but certainly they know that purple label denotes taste, class, I've arrived connotation.

Someone said it earlier and I could not agree more, that people who buy the lower priced lines (lauren) are paying for a name. The fact that they have no clue that on a fabric/construction level they are purchasing "junk" is even better. Average joe thinks of ralph lauren as quality. You and I know that it's not necessarily true but average joe does not.


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## rhk6446

*Which Level of Ralph Lauren is this?*

I defer to the better informed collective judgement...


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## hank

*Black Label*

Just bought two for my son at Polo Shop in Tysons Corner. Manager told me that BL is made by Corneliani - better grade than the lower priced Blue Label. It is a very highly styled, trim fitting garment - exceptional fabrics and tailoring.


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## cgc

rhk6446 said:


> I defer to the better informed collective judgement...


Lower end licensed line. It might be fine but I would not pay $40 sight unseen for it.

The rule is pretty simple for Ralph - Purple, Black and Polo are the only ones to look for (blue Ralph is simply too rare to worry about). If the tailored garment is made in Italy then it is good to great quality. If it is made in the US Polo or England Purple then it is older but still good or great stuff.

Maybe someone can come up with a 'beer before liquor' type rhyme so everyone remembers what to buy from Ralph.


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## cgc

hank said:


> Just bought two for my son at Polo Shop in Tysons Corner. Manager told me that BL is made by Corneliani - better grade than the lower priced Blue Label. It is a very highly styled, trim fitting garment - exceptional fabrics and tailoring.


Lucky kid! The cut of the Black Label is great for the trim and youthful, but it has serious shortcomings in its color palette and fabric choices. On the other hand they don't make very much Black Label so they don't have to sell very much which is great because it doesn't move so well (here in Chicago at least).


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## rhk6446

*Won the Auction! My comments*

Well I won the auction for $41.00.

The seller was great about it. It turns out she was in the next burb over and delivered the overcoat boxed and wrapped inside a clear plastic zippered garment bag.

The overcoat it's in mint condition, made in Hungary and the label is definitely blue. In any event the fabric and buttons look perfect. No wear anywear on the coat.

The blend is 65% wool, 25% nylon, 10% recycled cashmere.


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## The Other Andy

Very good advice above. All of my OTR suits are RL - from Purple Label to Polo Blue. this is not so much because I am an RL fiend - their suits just fit me really well in the shoulders off the rack. As mentioned above, RL is about the only OTR suit with a nice, natural shoulder - hard to find these days.

It also helped that I lived near a Neiman Marcus outlet. My first RLPL suit, which I got in about 2001 and still wear today, was $300.00 - and it is super 150's!!!! That is the beauty of the RLPL stuff - it is very high quality, but they make enough of it so that it can be had at outlets and on ebay really, really cheap. The most I've ever paid for a RLPL suit is $800.00, and that was for a 3-piece cashmere model.

If you are ever anywhere near Ft. Lauderdale, go to the RLPL outlet at the Sawgrass Mills Mall. Worth the trip every time.

Black Label on the other hand is cut way too narrow for my taste - think 60's british rock band and you've got the idea. If you are skinny as a rail, you'd look great in these suits. I'm not, and I don't. They are also harder to find cheap. Polo Blue Label and RLPL are much easier to get at outlets for some reason.


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## the etruscan

Sigh, the prices were so good when I dropped by the Stanford Ralph Lauren, but the suits were all in the unwearably large belly and waisted cuts. Fortunately I got my first three pairs of high quality slacks. RLPL charcoal + 2 RL Polo dark grey for a whopping $200!


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## Scoundrel

son of brummell said:


> A couple of questions and an observation:
> 
> 1. Does Polo make anything in the USA? I recall that it used to own a suit factory or two, and the current Oxxford team (Mike Cohen [CEO] and Rocco [head tailor/designer]) used to work out of the Ralph Lauren factory in Mass. It was closed.


No. Polo makes virtually nothing here, but, there is a line that hasn't yet been mentioned called: Ralph Lauren Country. I believe it is discontinued, but their stuff was made in the U.S.


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## StephenRG

The jacket I bought from Saks Off Fifth was Blue Label - just the name Ralph Lauren on a dark blue - closer to indigo, in fact - label, and elsewhere, also on a dark blue label, "Made in Italy", so I presume Corneliani. 

But a few years ago I bought another jacket from the RL outlet in Manchester Vt. (in the days when you could buy good stuff there) and the label was also blue, but with "Ralph Lauren" in a cursive script and the jacket was made in Canada...

Oddly, for US jackets I usually get a 42R because though I'm a 43R, I'm not begutted, and both of these - at least 10 years apart and from different continents - were 44R and fitted like gloves (or somewhat better, as I can't find gloves which fit me).


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## Roger

This may be a little tangential, but I recently saw a jacket with a label that had "Ralph" on the top line and "Ralph Lauren" on the bottom line. So, Ralph Ralph Lauren. Anyone know anything about this line?


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## sjk

StephenRG said:


> The jacket I bought from Saks Off Fifth was Blue Label - just the name Ralph Lauren on a dark blue - closer to indigo, in fact - label, and elsewhere, also on a dark blue label, "Made in Italy", so I presume Corneliani.


This jacket likely was from the very small line of fully-canvassed, roped shoulder pieces that appeared approximately 3 years ago. Unfortunately, I didn't see any of the sort this year. In the stores they referred to it by several names including "Collection" though I don't think there really was a formal designation. If your jacket had unfinished cuffs (meaning buttons off to facilitate tailoring or possibly working button holes) then that would clinch the identification. The line was priced above Polo, but well below RLPL. They seemed like a great deal, though, in general, I still liked the fabrics and patterns of Polo much more than what they did these pieces in. They tended to run small, like RLPL, meaning that if you typically took a 42R, then 44R would probably fit you better in this case.

The "Ralph Ralph Lauren", like "Lauren Ralph Lauren (Green label)" is a diffusion line, and is likely junk, not really worth discussing.


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## StephenRG

sjk said:


> If your jacket had unfinished cuffs (meaning buttons off to facilitate tailoring or possibly working button holes) then that would clinch the identification.


Which it did. The particular jacket is a silk cashmere blend. Off Fifth still have one more unsold and I was wondering whether to buy it for the $250 and knock it out on Ebay...


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## tinytim

jamgood said:


> Lauren (green label) made in Canada by Peerless. $?


So, quality wise how are the green label?


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## Barrister & Solicitor

I'm not one to keep a suit for decades, so the RL Green Label is more than satisfactory for its price point. I know I usually receive mega compliments when I wear my navy pinstriped one, and it cost about $100 nwt off Ebay.


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## MIchaelsaint

sia said:


> Can anyone definitively rank the various Ralph Lauren brands and label colors?
> 
> Polo by Ralph Lauren
> Ralph Lauren Purple Label
> Ralph Lauren
> Black Label
> Blue Label
> Lauren by Ralph Lauren
> Polo Jeans Co.
> RRL
> RLX
> Rugby
> Chaps
> Club Monaco
> Polo University
> Polo Denim
> Green Label
> Silver Label
> 
> Am I missing any? Some of these are actual brands, some are just label colors. What does it all mean? I know Purple is (or at least was) the top dog. Where does everything else fit?


I work for RL over 6 years and when I was young in high school in East Hampton over the summer's managed 2 stores and was part of the Visual Art team out of the Flagship store on Madison Ave.

POLO COUNTRY in EastHampton is Number 1 on the list..no horses or polo players or colored ...just everything cost 80% more.

And there's a Tricolor line, its the 3 colored Polo player insignia, after the colors its easy to see where everything falls once you do a price check on the same item in each, RRL and RLX are in the same priceline as Purple.

POLO SPORT isn't cheap either..and some of those lines have ended. And at the POLO COUNTRY STORE, you were the visual art,I would spend an hour downstairs in the dressing room having my nails french manicured my hair done and I would be one day a Golfer carrying a club or a POLO player..or flat out Hampton style khakis and white shirt for the beach..i had over 10grand in clothes at one point i gained wieght,i gave away 1,000s of TH and RL core products..due to a website im able to re-buy the old core classics NWT or NWT for 5-10 bucks.


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## London380sl

What's the website?


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## SG_67

London380sl said:


> What's the website?


I'm not sure I'm following the guys logic.
It's a Polo store but everything is "80%" more?

Perhaps English is not his mother tongue and we're not catching the nuance.


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## peterc

Barrister & Solicitor said:


> I'm not one to keep a suit for decades, so the RL Green Label is more than satisfactory for its price point. I know I usually receive mega compliments when I wear my navy pinstriped one, and it cost about $100 nwt off Ebay.


Agreed. I have one Green Label Lauren suit too. I closed the center vent, had my tailor flip the reverse pleats to forward pleats and removed the belt loops and added side tabs. Now, it's a nice suit. The fabric was always beautiful too.


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## Virtue Aesthetics

peterc said:


> Agreed. I have one Green Label Lauren suit too. I closed the center vent, had my tailor flip the reverse pleats to forward pleats and removed the belt loops and added side tabs. Now, it's a nice suit. The fabric was always beautiful too.


what an interesting comment... I mean that.
You closed the center vent, so its now a ventless jacket? Or did he create side vents?
Why do you imply that forward pleats are better than reverse pleats? I have never heard of this before, other than that forward pleats are seldom on OTR trouers stateside (IIRC)


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## Matt S

Virtue Aesthetics said:


> what an interesting comment... I mean that.
> You closed the center vent, so its now a ventless jacket? Or did he create side vents?
> Why do you imply that forward pleats are better than reverse pleats? I have never heard of this before, other than that forward pleats are seldom on OTR trouers stateside (IIRC)


Many of us find forward pleats to be much more flattering than reverse. This has a lot to do with the way they are cut, so flipping reverse pleats doesn't work because they are cut differently. The pleat will no longer line up with the crease, and pressing a new crease will but it out of alignment.


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## peterc

Virtue Aesthetics said:


> what an interesting comment... I mean that.
> You closed the center vent, so its now a ventless jacket? Or did he create side vents?
> Why do you imply that forward pleats are better than reverse pleats? I have never heard of this before, other than that forward pleats are seldom on OTR trouers stateside (IIRC)


I loathe reverse pleats with a passion. They should be outlawed, both by the U.S. Congress and the CDN. Parliament. All you need to do is watch George Gently or Endeavour to see how nicely trousers with forward pleats are. (I'm CDN. by the way.)

The jacket is now ventless. I like the look, although less so than I once did.


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## SG_67

Virtue Aesthetics said:


> what an interesting comment... I mean that.
> You closed the center vent, so its now a ventless jacket? Or did he create side vents?
> Why do you imply that forward pleats are better than reverse pleats? I have never heard of this before, other than that forward pleats are seldom on OTR trouers stateside (IIRC)


As mentioned before, forward pleats behave better than reverse. RL, interestingly enough, used to offer some forward pleat options in their OTR lineup.


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## Matt S

SG_67 said:


> As mentioned before, forward pleats behave better than reverse. RL, interestingly enough, used to offer some forward pleat options in their OTR lineup.


They used to have many options, in the Polo, Purple Label, Black Label and Signature lines. The Silver Label licensed line also had them. I think there are still some Polo trousers that might have them. 15 years ago they had so many wonderful clothes.


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## peterc

Everytime I watch the 1990 Woody Allen flim, Alice, I marvel at the Polo Shop in NYC as it existed in that moment in time. I am, I know, blessed beyond belief to have lived on the East Coast when it opened, which was, I believe, in the Fall of 1986 or 1987. In 2011, I bought a stunning covert coat with a velvet collar there before Blue Label became what it is today.


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## benbentley100

jamgood said:


> Suits, Sport coats, Better Trousers (any more info is too complicated and items are not licensed, but contracted in most cases) RL Purple Label hand tailored by SaintAndrews which has changed its name to Sartoria Santandrea Milano www.st-santandrea.it (under construction?) The Santandrea trousers have a white production tag on the pocketing. The non SantAndrea trousers have a purple production tag on the pocketing. (Made by Chester Barrie in Crewe, England until about 2001) RL Purple Label non-hand tailored. Reportedly by Cantarelli, the owner of St. Andrews until spring 2006. Unconfirmed. Considerably less expensive than the SantAndrea. RALPH LAUREN (blue label) better constructed Corneliani than Polo. Similar styles. Models = Jerome # Polo Ralph Lauren can run $1200 to over $2000 per suit depending on fabric and tailoring factors. Sport coats from roughly $1000 in wools to $2000 in cashmere tweeds. Corneliani. Trousers $325+ If a Polo item has a Made In Italy label it was probably made by some unit of Corneliani. Corneliani since 1999. Ralph Lauren Black Label trim suits currently about $1600? Maker ? Not the same production tags as Corneliani. I'd guess L..... Lauren (green label) made in Canada by Peerless. $? Chaps is still in the stable. Kohl's may have it exclusively. Dunno I don't think Polo University is made anymore. Rugby is a line originally targeted at college students.


 Is the RALPH LAUREN (blue label, capital.letters) a men's or women's label, or both?


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## benbentley100

benbentley100 said:


> Is the RALPH LAUREN (blue label, capital.letters) a men's or women's label, or both?


See label on pic on pic below. Size says M/M














M/M 
below...thanks


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