# Shoes for formalwear



## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

I just purchased a shawl collar Tuxedo from J. Press - at 40% off. The best shoe I currently own to wear with this would be a black calf Alden tassel moc. Though less than ideal, this could work in a pinch.

But, what if I took this as an excuse to spring for a new pair of shoes? What people really wear patent leather with their dinner jackets? Odd question, but dress around here is pretty informal. A black captoe bal would be more versatile, but I usually avoid black shoes when I can.

Also, the collar on the jacket is a bit more expansive than I would prefer. Has anyone ever tried to have a shawl collar trimmed or rolled up a bit?


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

*Ummm*

Ok so shoot me now, but for the past 30 some years I worn a pair of black longwings with my vintage (ok so it's inherited) shawl collared dinner jacket. No wing collar shirts for me, and always with a cummerbund (black to match the tie) and plain black studs. Surprising as it is, no one has ever fainted from the sight.

PS: sounds like going to Press worked out well for you - cheers.


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## OldSkoolFrat (Jan 5, 2007)

*Black dress shoes:*

Bought a pair of Black Bostonian Blucher Cap Toes in January '04 polished them for nearly a year, once a week. Brush coat, brush coat, on and on. till October of '04 then did a spit shine. By my Co. Christmas party of '04 they looked like patent leather AE's. Kiwi, not that sissy Meltonian. 

My intent was to then wear them for work, but I can only bring myself to wear them to work on occasion. To work on nights my Masonic Lodge has degree work so I can change into my Tuxedo and have my shoes already there. :icon_smile:

My wife cuts me a lot of slack as far as clothes go, but she would take me to the woodshed if I sprang for the patent AE's; the $300+ price tag for a pair of shoes I would only wear a few times a year, let's not go there.  AE is the only true formal shoe that comes in narrow.

PS some of the new formal shoes have AmJack square toes, yuk.


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## SC_tigerfan (Dec 5, 2006)

I just wear my black captoes with my tux.


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

You could maybe see about picking up a pair of AE Ritz's on Ebay, otherwise I'd say you'd be best springing for a pair of plain black cap toe bals (like the Park Avenue). It'll give you something to wear else to funerals, interviews, etc. other than your black tassels.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

Captoed bals are a great thing to have in any wardrobe, and are a fine choice with formal wear. This next statement will fly in the face of every rule on the books, but I think you could make do with a highly shined pair of black penny loafers. I've seen it done (and I think our friend. Mr. Tradly has mentioned doing this), and I was surprised at how good it looked. Tassels may work also, but I think pennys are preferable due to their sleeker nature.


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## Prepdad (Mar 10, 2005)

When I got my first dinner jacket in college my father sent instructions along to be sure to get patent leather slip-on shoes (called, rather absurdly,
"dancing pumps"). Taking a look at them, I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I opted for black tassle Aldens and I've been wearing those ever since. I've yet to be kicked out of anything. But, there's always tomorrow. I've also worn black caps with tails and that's pretty common around here as well. I can count on one hand the number of gentlemen I know who wear patent leather dancing pumps.


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

abc123 said:


> Captoed bals are a great thing to have in any wardrobe, and are a fine choice with formal wear. This next statement will fly in the face of every rule on the books, but I think you could make do with a highly shined pair of black penny loafers. I've seen it done (and I think our friend. Mr. Tradly has mentioned doing this), and I was surprised at how good it looked. Tassels may work also, but I think pennys are preferable due to their sleeker nature.


I don't know about this. I'd say doing this, or wearing tassel loafers, runs the risk of making you look like you don't know or care what qualifies as appropriate formal footwear, making you like most any other Joe Slob. Most people wouldn't care, but there are people like those of us on Ask Andy who would know and notice. Same thing goes with wearing an OCBD with a dinner jacket. While those of us on the Trad forum might get a kick out of it, it might otherwise look like that was the only shirt you had to wear.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Longwing,

The reality is, if you wear the Alden tassels, you will look better than 99% of the men these days. Between cheap rented tuxes with plastic shoes, and people who do not bother to wear a tux, you are already way ahead of the game. But you know this. 

I do generally wear patent leather shoes. I was given a pair of patent pumps years ago and have enjoyed wearing them over the years. To me, it is just one of those small details that shows that you know what is most formal. While I can appreciate that some folks wear less formal shoes (and I do it myself sometimes if I am going to be walking a distance), or even loafers to affect a GTH type nonchalance, I think that when everyone is wearing informal shoes, wearing true formal pumps becomes somewhat GTH. How is that for some strange logic?

As to the lapels, I would love to know if they can be successfully altered. While I have owned and enjoyed a rather fat shawl lapel DJ in the past, my current DJ has shawl lapels that are a bit wider at the bottom. It almost gives them a "drooping" appearance. I will be interested to read if anyone has had success in trimming shawl lapels up a bit.

Tom


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

tripreed said:


> I don't know about this. I'd say doing this, or wearing tassel loafers, runs the risk of making you look like you don't know or care what qualifies as appropriate formal footwear, making you like most any other Joe Slob. Most people wouldn't care, but there are people like those of us on Ask Andy who would know and notice. Same thing goes with wearing an OCBD with a dinner jacket. While those of us on the Trad forum might get a kick out of it, it might otherwise look like that was the only shirt you had to wear.


Trip,

I agree that its not ideal, but with limited resources, sacrifices may have to be made. Personally, I feel that patent opera pumps are the shoes for formalwear, but unfortunately, thats not the most reasonable choice for many people. If I saw a guy wearing highly shined tassels with his dinner suit, I'd think he did a nice job making due with what is within his budget, even if not ideal.

Another note - Just my opinion, but I'd stay away from patent laceups. Either go with patent pumps, or just use a highly shined black balmoral in regular calfskin. The patent oxfords, to my eye, just look a like a cheap shoe. Again, just my opinion.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

tripreed said:


> I don't know about this. I'd say doing this, or wearing tassel loafers, runs the risk of making you look like you don't know or care what qualifies as appropriate formal footwear, making you like most any other Joe Slob. Most people wouldn't care, but there are people like those of us on Ask Andy who would know and notice. Same thing goes with wearing an OCBD with a dinner jacket. While those of us on the Trad forum might get a kick out of it, it might otherwise look like that was the only shirt you had to wear.


Although, Trip, does it differ at all from wearing lime green pants with navy blue whales? There's a certain nonchalance, a go to hell nature of trad that flaunts the rules, sometimes.

ABC, good memory. I have been seen around town in a dinner jacket and shined up black weejuns. Is it right? No. Does it look silly? Maybe. Do people point and laugh? Not yet, but perhaps behind my back. Are they comfortable, and a tip of the hat to the original preppy shoe? Yeah. Do I care? Nope.

I suspect that if you go to more than two [proper term] semi formal events in a year, you have probably noticed there exists levels of formality at different events. I've written about this before: I attend an annual initiation dinner for a group I'm in from my college days. It's raucous and fun as hell. It's largely a tongue-in-cheek affair, but black tie. I wear my GTH bows and cummerbunds, grosgrain strap and weejuns (I should also note that it's a stag affair, so don't give the load about "being a black canvas so your date shines"). That's one extreme. Were I to be invited to the White House for a State dinner? I'd shine the hell out of my black captoes, or purchase a pair of patent leathers, wear a black bow and cummerbund, and a staid watch.

Am I the only one that approaches evening wear as such?

JB


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

abc123 said:


> Trip,
> 
> Another note - Just my opinion, but I'd stay away from patent laceups. Either go with patent pumps, or just use a highly shined black balmoral in regular calfskin. The patent oxfords, to my eye, just look a like a cheap shoe. Again, just my opinion.


I agree with this. I attended a black tie do recently where there was a great range of footwear being paired with the dinner jacket (tux). I saw no pumps or slippers of any kind, saw lots of slip-ons of different types, many plain oxfords in calf and just one or two patent oxfords. Certainly the plain calf shoe - either slip-on or oxford - worked the best IMO.

The strangest offerings were a pair of light tan clumpy lace ups with a tux and a young guy sporting black high top Converse with his tux. It was a Friday evening and some men (presumably coming straight from the office) didn't bother with a tux at all......

One day I shall get those bespoke Lobb pumps in calf leather with flat bow.....until then it's the plain black Church's Lingfield oxford for me.

BTW I have a picture of Cary Grant sporting penny loafers with his tux to very good effect.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Brideshead said:


> BTW I have a picture of Cary Grant sporting penny loafers with his tux to very good effect.


You best scan and post so I can carry it with me.

JB


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Tom Buchanan said:


> I think that when everyone is wearing informal shoes, wearing true formal pumps becomes somewhat GTH. How is that for some strange logic?
> 
> Tom


Tom, I love this line of thinking, my shiny black weejuns to the contrary.

JB


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## Dapper Dan (Jan 18, 2007)

If you are going to the trouble of wearing a tux, then it seems to me that you need to go all the way and get the shoes that properly match the formality of the occasion. For me, this means formal black shoes. Tassels or mocs and even shoes with perforated caps or brogueing are not a good match for formalwear. On the occasions when I wear a tux, I use a black captoe, the AE Park Avenue polished to a very high shine. It has always seemed to me to be a very fine, acceptable choice for formalwear. You can go with patent leather, but those shoes are really only usable for formalware, unlike the Park Avenue which is a great shoe for wearing with suits. Buying a shoe to use for only for formal occasions just does not seem as "trad" to me as having a shoe that is available for multiple uses. If you are going to have a black shoe, I think that the Park Avenue is one of the great choices. 








Of course if you are going to wear the tux often then you might want to consider other options like one of those shoes with the little grosgrain bows. 








That's not for me, though.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Dapper Dan said:


> If you are going to the trouble of wearing a tux, then it seems to me that you need to go all the way and get the shoes that properly match the formality of the occasion. For me, this means formal black shoes. Tassels or mocs and even shoes with perforated caps or brogueing are not a good match for formalwear. On the occasions when I wear a tux, I use a black captoe, the AE Park Avenue polished to a very high shine. It has always seemed to me to be a very fine, acceptable choice for formalwear. You can go with patent leather, but those shoes are really only usable for formalware, unlike the Park Avenue which is a great shoe for wearing with suits. Buying a shoe to use for only for formal occasions just does not seem as "trad" to me as having a shoe that is available for multiple uses. If you are going to have a black shoe, I think that the Park Avenue is one of the great choices.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What pumps are those DD?


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## Dapper Dan (Jan 18, 2007)

Brooks Brothers. Very nice for guys that want to go Full Monty Formal.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Joe Tradly said:


> Tom, I love this line of thinking, my shiny black weejuns to the contrary.
> 
> JB


Joe,

Glad that someone could follow my overly circuitous thinking. And as I stated originally, I can well understand the loafer aesthetic also.

In fact, I think I posted it before, but here is something to up the ante on the GTH-formal-footwear front. "Palm Beach formal" = sockless with formal pumps.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Joe Tradly said:


> *There's a certain nonchalance, a go to hell nature of trad that flaunts the rules, sometimes*.
> 
> ABC, good memory. I have been seen around town in a dinner jacket and shined up black weejuns. Is it right? No. Does it look silly? Maybe. Do people point and laugh? Not yet, but perhaps behind my back. Are they comfortable, and a tip of the hat to the original preppy shoe? Yeah. *Do I care? Nope*.


What a wonderful, old fashioned, trad, point of view! Good for you! I much appreciate this point of view.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Joe Tradly said:


> You best scan and post so I can carry it with me.
> 
> JB


Joe - here it is courtesy google images. Which loafers are they? Does this call into question all the conventional wisdom? In Indiscreet he of course wears pumps with tux for dancing.....


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Tom Buchanan said:


> In fact, I think I posted it before, but here is something to up the ante on the GTH-formal-footwear front. "Palm Beach formal" = sockless with formal pumps.


There are few places less tradly than palm beach, but I love the idea of going sockless and semi formal. Let's call it "Newport formal". That'll make me more comfortable. Think of it: summer evening wedding at the shore club, cream DJ, black trousers, no socks, big band, big moon, gin & tonic. I'm in love.

Please, people, don't get up in arms, Tom and I are just having a little fun here.

JB


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## HL Poling and Sons (Mar 24, 2006)

I have some AE Ritz opera pumps (yeah, the ones with the grosgrain bows) that my parents gave me when I went away to college. I always liked the contast of the rather effete shoes with my decidedly ungraceful 6'2" 225 lb. build.

As for the appropriateness of one shoe over another, I've always thought that black cap-toes, no matter if they're shined like mirrors, were still intrinsically "business" shoes. The high shine doesn't transform them into something different (and really, shouldn't they always be so well-shined for work?). Patent shoes, on the other hand, are something different. You wouldn't wear them (or a dinner jacket) for business/the office. Why, then, would you wear cap-toes to the Supporters of Children With No Feeling in Their Arms dinner?


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Brideshead said:


> Joe - here it is courtesy google images. Which loafers are they? Does this call into question all the conventional wisdom? In Indiscreet he of course wears pumps with tux for dancing.....


Brideshead: priceless. Many thanks.

LongWing: Sorry for the apparent thread-jacking.

JB


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Dapper Dan said:


> Brooks Brothers. Very nice for guys that want to go Full Monty Formal.


Brooks Brothers has, or at least, had that model on sale for about half price. They are made by Church's.


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

Well, this has evolved into a very nice discussion. I'd love to respond to each of you, but I'd get fired. 

FWIW, David Wilder at Press mentioned to me that Press would only be reordering the peak lapel DJ for the time being. A little surprising.

I'm also surprised that the patent slip on is more popular than a patent bal. Must be the grosgrain, eh?


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Having been in the Army, there's a comparison I make with patent leather and corfam. Corfam was a nasty shoe worn by REMFs who were too lazy to shine shoes and were in units that didn't require boots (ie:Clerks and Jerks). The Black Tie Patent leather lace up looks just like the Army corfam "low quarter" shoe. Nasty. However, if that's your taste, you can probably pick up a pr of Bates low quarters at a Army Navy Surplus store for $50 bucks or so.

I have two pair of velvet slippers. One monogramed in silver from Shipton and another pr. from Paul Stuart, on sale for 100 bucks. Beautiful stag on the toe w/ dogs on the side. I wear them with black tie all the time. 

I do like the pump but only in calf. And a warning about patent leather. I've seen it go bad over the years. Turning a milk white where the leather creases. 

I do like black tassel loafers (very Trad) and what I've seen in London- - black Liverpool or Paddock boots. Very good looking and almost impossible to tell what they are from a distance. Especially the reverse calf. Give's it a patent look (if you like that sort of thing) and allows a great boot into your wardrobe that can do at least double duty. Unless you're gonna wear pumps with jeans and a tee shirt. Which I would not. Unless I wanted to get the crap kicked outta me.


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## OldSkoolFrat (Jan 5, 2007)

Or get some Bates in leather and polish the heck out of them. About 50 brush coats and a final spit shine. Use, "Mellow Yellow" soft drink instead of spit or water, some say that it will shine up even higher that way.


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

*As for shoes with tuxedo, I think that I've . . .*

. . . "done them all".

Over the years, I believe that I've worn nearly all of the different types of shoes with a tuxedo (save for the highly-polished Bass Weejuns) - Alden tassel loafers (an elegant shape, but not quite proper), highly polished calf cap-toe balmorals (more suitable, IMHO, and a proper choice for someone who cannot or chooses not to afford patent-leather shoes), and patent-leather cap-toe balmorals (an indulgence, I bought them, and a new tuxedo, for a winter evening wedding, during an otherwise highly stressful period in my life). I can appreciate those who feel that there is alway something somewhat suspect about patent leather (too many associations with rented tuxes and rented accessories), but I do like the look (mine are from J&M - model name Tropa). I cannot quite see myself in the "dancing pump" models, but I am sure that is my own personal issue.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Have worn Park Avenues with my tux. With a nice shine you should be fine.


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## OldSkoolFrat (Jan 5, 2007)

Never liked bal's, (Balmoral Oxfords) they seem to always bind and pinch my foot. Blucher's for me, trad or not.


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## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

Just a pair of black captoes will do fine (sure a plain toe bal would be better but, make do with what you have (and if you're a size 13b contact me and I'll "hook you up)). Just don't wear pumps. I think they're dainty and effeminate.


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

Tom Buchanan said:


> As to the lapels, I would love to know if they can be successfully altered. While I have owned and enjoyed a rather fat shawl lapel DJ in the past, my current DJ has shawl lapels that are a bit wider at the bottom. It almost gives them a "drooping" appearance. I will be interested to read if anyone has had success in trimming shawl lapels up a bit.


Tom, I just took the DJ into my alterations guy. I asked about the lapel. His opinion was that it would be fairly easy to roll the lapel a bit higher. He said that he would need to open up the lapel and replace the interfacing/innerfacing(?). This would help the lapel take the new crease and stay in place. I hope this works out. I'll know in a week.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

Either the Aldren tassel loafer in black shell cordovan or the Alden straight tip bal oxford in black shell cordovan


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

LongWing said:


> I just purchased a shawl collar Tuxedo from J. Press - at 40% off. The best shoe I currently own to wear with this would be a black calf Alden tassel moc. Though less than ideal, this could work in a pinch.
> 
> But, what if I took this as an excuse to spring for a new pair of shoes? What people really wear patent leather with their dinner jackets? Odd question, but dress around here is pretty informal. A black captoe bal would be more versatile, but I usually avoid black shoes when I can.
> 
> Also, the collar on the jacket is a bit more expansive than I would prefer. Has anyone ever tried to have a shawl collar trimmed or rolled up a bit?


https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ection_Id=527&Product_Id=851188&Parent_Id=522


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## Mel (Dec 12, 2006)

*Tassels are fine!*

I always wear alden black tassels and have never had a problem. I agree you will look far better than most. the really new look is the four in hand black tie with a formal shirt. Paul Stuart pushes this look. Tassels are really a minor touch compared to this. You have to either use a tux often or be willing to waste a lot of $ to use patent slippers or shoes.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

LongWing said:


> Tom, I just took the DJ into my alterations guy. I asked about the lapel. His opinion was that it would be fairly easy to roll the lapel a bit higher. He said that he would need to open up the lapel and replace the interfacing/innerfacing(?). This would help the lapel take the new crease and stay in place. I hope this works out. I'll know in a week.


Longwing - This is interesting. Let us know how it turns out. I do not think that your solution can cure my lapels issue, but I have a suit or two that I would like to raise the roll of.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Mel said:


> I always wear alden black tassels and have never had a problem. I agree you will look far better than most. the really new look is the four in hand black tie with a formal shirt. Paul Stuart pushes this look. Tassels are really a minor touch compared to this. You have to either use a tux often or be willing to waste a lot of $ to use patent slippers or shoes.


This is hardly new. It's an abomination that's been going on for about 5 years, if not a few more. Long ties, and notch lapels further move the dinner jacket toward the business suit. Before you know it, they'll be selling "tuxes" wihtout the satin facings on the lapels and stripe down the trouser leg. I reapeat: it's an abomination.

JB


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## knickerbacker (Jun 27, 2005)

Having recently been through this decision, here's what I did:
black pumps if you are wearing your tux for pleasure. If you are a waiter working your way through college (as I was at a catering company in DC during Reagan) other shoes are acceptable. Although it's no great sin in my book, non formal footwear with formal wear just seems more sloppy than GTH to me (depending on the shoes). For all BB doesn't have that I want these days, they do have decent dress black patent pumps that were on deep discount at 346 Madison over the holidays.
LW, I tried to buy a press tux around New Year's but they were out of all in the 42/43 range- what size are you?


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

knickerbacker said:


> LW, I tried to buy a press tux around New Year's but they were out of all in the 42/43 range- what size are you?


44XLong. I was very lucky. They don't have much in my size. It's been waiting for me since 2004.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

So far I don't believe anyone has mentioned wearing black wholecut bals. Would these be a slight step up in formality over cap toe bals?


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

windsor said:


> So far I don't believe anyone has mentioned wearing black wholecut bals. Would these be a slight step up in formality over cap toe bals?


Yes, they are. They seem to be more popular on the other forum.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Thanks for the confirmation Longwing. I thought they might be but didn't realize they are considered less Tradly.


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## DixieTrad (Dec 9, 2006)

This shoe, in black of course, would work better than a cap toe, IMO.

https://www.aldenshoes.com/DrawOneSpecial.asp?CategoryID=127

It also works well with your suits. I wore a J&M version of this for many years for both formal events and business wear.


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## charphar (Nov 13, 2006)

IMHO, in matters of formal footwear, one would never go wrong in following the example of Ol' Blue Eyes himself, who talked at some length on his great "Live at the Sands" recording about his "Mary Janes," the patent pumps that "took a bite out of his instep." :icon_smile:


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I do like to wear patent leather, but not pumps. Mine do not look like military or post office shoes IMHO. I bought the patent plaintoe bal shoe from Shipton for $199. It is like the one Brooks has/had and is the AS Templar.

https://www.shipton-usa.com/erol.html#2134X1272

You can also get the UK-F from Pediwear and they have both an AS Templar and a Cheaney Knightsbridge. I do think only the CJ Chatham (patent captoe) is offered in UK-E fitting at Plal and Pedi.

I agree your options are very limited for narrow and the AE PA is a fine choice.

As Mac has suggested, I think a cap-toe in Black Shell Cordovan would be a perfect substitute, but that's $400-450 not even $300.


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## Benjamin.65 (Nov 1, 2006)

LongWing said:


> I just purchased a shawl collar Tuxedo from J. Press - at 40% off. The best shoe I currently own to wear with this would be a black calf Alden tassel moc. Though less than ideal, this could work in a pinch.
> 
> But, what if I took this as an excuse to spring for a new pair of shoes? What people really wear patent leather with their dinner jackets? Odd question, but dress around here is pretty informal. A black captoe bal would be more versatile, but I usually avoid black shoes when I can.
> 
> Also, the collar on the jacket is a bit more expansive than I would prefer. Has anyone ever tried to have a shawl collar trimmed or rolled up a bit?


It would be quite easy to have a tailor cut the lapel. As for the shoes, the only correct Trad choice is the pump, in patent or boxcalf.


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## Benjamin.65 (Nov 1, 2006)

tintin said:


> I do like black tassel loafers (very Trad) and what I've seen in London- - black Liverpool or Paddock boots.


An Alden tassle in black, highly polished calf or even cordovan would be a clever and coy Trad alternative, methinks.


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## dnfuss (Mar 17, 2005)

*Calf Pumps*

Who is still making a quality calf (not patent) pump with grosgrain ribbon for black tie? I have a pair I got from Brooks Bros. in the late 1970s that I need to replace. The salesman I spoke to at 346 told me they haven't carried that syle for at least 10 years. I'd like something of similar quality and would hope to keep it under $400. Any suggestions would be appeciated.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Edward Green sells calf opera pumps, a model called the Edinburgh. These are also sometimes sold as Ralph Lauren Purple Label shoes. I don't know the price but I expect they are expensive. The Polo Mansion in New York, or Sky Valet in DC, would be good places to inquire.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

abc123 said:


> Trip,
> If I saw a guy wearing highly shined tassels with his dinner suit, I'd think he did a nice job making due with what is within his budget, even if not ideal.


This seems unlikely, as if he weren't able to afford proper shoes he would unlikely own a dinner jacket of any kind.

If he had rented the jacket, he would have been provided with the shoes, and although they might not have been the best choice, they would not be tassles either.


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## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

dnfuss said:


> Who is still making a quality calf (not patent) pump with grosgrain ribbon for black tie? I have a pair I got from Brooks Bros. in the late 1970s that I need to replace. The salesman I spoke to at 346 told me they haven't carried that syle for at least 10 years. I'd like something of similar quality and would hope to keep it under $400. Any suggestions would be appeciated.


Here's a pair of Moreschi
https://www.theshoemart.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?&category=MDF&item=MOR_m_Grant&ps=2&start=14&rpro=


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