# My Son's Dress Code - School



## teabrenda (Jan 7, 2008)

I have a 15 year old son who requires to wear a uniform to school over here in the UK. Most schools over here require uniform so it is not anthing out of the ordinary. 

I like him to look smart to school and this make him wear his top shirt button done up and covered with the tie. He also wears a v-neck sweater and blazer and trousers. After school he stays in his uniform, but minus the blazer, but I do not let him loosen his tie or remove it. This is where the problem has started. He says that he should be allowed to take his tie off after school, or at least wear it loose with the shirt top button undone. I say it is my decision and he must keep his tie on and properly worn all day with the shirt top button done up. His shirt collars are not over tight and I see no problem insisting he stays smartly dressed at all times.

What do others on this forum think and do you have similar rules or any suggestions I can consider ?


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

The tie off after coming home from school is fine. Button undone and tie loose is not fine. If he has after school activies of a physical type, he should not wear the tie.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Tie off is fine, tie loose is fine, too, in non-representational circumstances - unless there is chance of dangerous entanglement as Alex infers. Let him loosen or remove!


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## Scrumhalf (Dec 20, 2007)

Ouch.... you are quite the stickler parent, aren't you? 

I went to a convent school growing up .... had to wear a tie every day. At the end of a long hot tiring day (did most of my schooling in the tropics), it felt really good to loosen the tie a bit and amble home. As long as it is just on his way home, I think it is ok to go a bit easy on him...


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

With all due respect, since you as the father in the end knows whats best for your son, I'd go easier on the tie rule. I don't know how it is in that school, but from where I came afternoons after school are the limited time a boy can really act his age, that means activities that might make wearing a tie a hindrance. At worse, he might grow up to think wearing a tie is constrictive.


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## NU81 (Jan 29, 2008)

I went to schools that required a tie from 1st Grade through High School. As soon as school was out I took the tie off. Becasue of being forced to wear a tie I purposely picked a University where ties were scarce. My initial career choice also was sans ties. I've come full circle and now enjoy selecting and wearing ties. My advice: he's a kid so let him loosen up a bit. If the worst thing he wants to do is loosen or remove his tie you are a lucky parent.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Either keep the collar buttoned and the tie snugged up or unbutton the collar and completey remove the tie. While the latter is certainly less desirable than the former, an unbuttoned collar with loosened tie looks dreadful. You will want to be sure the shirt collar is the correct size -- not too tight.


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## Eustace Tilley (Sep 23, 2007)

Scrumhalf said:


> Ouch.... you are quite the stickler parent, aren't you?
> 
> I went to a convent school growing up .... had to wear a tie every day. At the end of a long hot tiring day (did most of my schooling in the tropics), it felt really good to loosen the tie a bit and amble home. As long as it is just on his way home, I think it is ok to go a bit easy on him...


+1 - he is 15 for chrissakes, and I'm fairly certain he is not Little Lord Fauntleroy.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

I like that you tell your 15 year old kid that how he dresses is your decision. I'm surprised you don't have a mutiny on your hands. Let him have a childhood. As long as he's presentable in public what's the problem with being relaxed at home?


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

take it easy, you dont want to create a rebel. give him a bit of slack. 
he will need your advice later on as to attire.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Father trying to create another hippie age? I'll agree with the father under one condition - the father always sleeps in a suit and tie and proper shoes and socks, after all, pj's are dressing down. I don't think fathers should be bullies.

Looking at pictures of Reagan, a man who knew how to dress- he was not always in suit and tie, but sometimes jeans and certainly no tie. I doubt you know better than Reagan how to dress.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

teabrenda said:


> ....., but I do not let him loosen his tie or remove it......


Wow, I have been in a lot of schools and I don't think I have ever seen a young lad keep his tie in perfect position all day long. Come to think of it, the girls don't keep their ties snugly in place either (yes, there are still girls only schools that have a tie as part of the uniform).

So you don't allow him to loosen it at all? Ever?
He must feel like the odd man out?

Most of the boys know when they can slack it up and when (the headmaster is coming) to snap it up.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Yikes - sounds like your son is going through boot camp instead adolescence. If he does not wear a tie when he becomes an adult, you will know why.


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## stuarts8 (Jan 8, 2004)

I think in my view it is good for him to look smart, but I think he should be permitted to loosen the tie and undo the top button upon arrival at home. That seems like an equitable compromise.
Stuarts8


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

> I like him to look smart to school and this make him wear his top shirt button done up and covered with the tie. He also wears a v-neck sweater and blazer and trousers. After school he stays in his uniform, but minus the blazer, but I do not let him loosen his tie or remove it. This is where the problem has started. He says that he should be allowed to take his tie off after school, or at least wear it loose with the shirt top button undone. I say it is my decision and he must keep his tie on and properly worn all day with the shirt top button done up. His shirt collars are not over tight and I see no problem insisting he stays smartly dressed at all times.


The real question is: do you wear a tie after you come home from work?


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

yachtie said:


> The real question is: do you wear a tie after you come home from work?


You know, this all makes me extremely grateful that my public school in suburban Maryland let me wear nearly whatever I wanted (which was also beneficial as a rule because it meant that the girls could wear whatever _they_ wanted--and _that_ was freaking awesome, regardless of how un-'smart' it may have been).


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

My memory of school was that the school cap was the most hated item of clothing.

Uniform rules ran to a couple of pages, down to grey socks and plain black Oxfords. They even specified width of trousers(no drainpipes).

However, when I got home the uniform came off until the next school day.

In my opinion the kids get enough grief from their teachers about uniforms without adding to it. I always wanted a leather jacket but no joy :icon_smile:.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

teabrenda said:


> I say it is my decision . . .
> What do others on this forum think and do you have similar rules or any suggestions I can consider ?


Sorry, but I can't agree with that. This may seem like piling on, but you must know that he's getting to the age where fewer and fewer things are "your decision", and your job is to keep influencing him so that the decisions he makes, which very soon are going to be all of them, are good ones. Save your battles for the big stuff.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

If he is in public, make sure he dresses well. But at home without company, he should be able to take off the tie. If he can take off the blazer, taking off the tie is also appropriate. If you wish him to wear the tie for dinner at home, then that is acceptable. If he is at home, loosening the tie is fine temporarily if he needs to put it back on again, but otherwise he should leave it on or take it off. I agree with the others not to force him to wear a tie too much. I do, however, know a kid who has to wear ties to school, but he also chooses to wear them when not in school. He wears them all summer long. I can't say he wears them most appropriately (with short sleeves), but I still am happy to see him wearing a tie.


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## mambo (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree that you are going too far. Plus, he will get ridiculed by friends most or all of whom will remove or loosen their ties


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

Why make the kid where a school uniform when he's not in school? Seems like massive overkill to me. Don't most of his classmates just change into regular t-shirt and jeans when they get home?


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## reubencahn (Mar 28, 2006)

At my school, many years ago, you would see the lower schoolers use their ties to wipe their noses. I don't remember anyone ever keeping their ties properly done up through last period let alone afterwards.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

As a fellow (former) Hard A**ed parent and a (current) soft-touch granpa, my advice would be to let him loosen his tie and open his collar, take off his tie, or change out of his school uniform completely...his choice...when he returns home from school. Ease back a bit and you will both enjoy the experience more. I wish I had!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I agree with most of the posters. All you are going to do is make him hate wearing ties.

After school, I think you should ease up, especially if he is good about it during school.


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## kngrimm (Nov 18, 2007)

Way too far... I knew girls that had strict parents all throughout High School... 

Never dated..never drank..never was out past dark... 

And those same girls went to college and hooked up with fifteen different guys in the first month and were out rolling on E... 

This world is about moderation. For the sake of your child, please, be reasonable...


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## teabrenda (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks for your posts over the last 24 hours.

I like to keep my son smart as I think it provides discipline and a sense of self respect as well. I also wear a suit and tie to work ad keep my tie on after work and it stays fastened up as well. All saves on laundry as well. He is allowed smart casual clothing at weekends and on school holidays, so I am not any dictator or similar that other posters on this site might think.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

I think you're giving us the business. There is no way this is real. I was in a uniform from kindergarten through the end of high school, and I still think there is no way this is real.


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## stuarts8 (Jan 8, 2004)

I agree wholeheartedly Teabrenda with what you say about discipline and self respect, However, Perhaps you could consider at least allowing him to loosen the tie and open the collar as a compromise. That way he still looks reasonably smart. 
As for Marlinspike`s comments, I do not agree with him at all.
stuarts8


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

marlinspike said:


> I think you're giving us the business. There is no way this is real. I was in a uniform from kindergarten through the end of high school, and I still think there is no way this is real.


Mind your own business, nosy parker. This thread is for idiots, only.


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## kngrimm (Nov 18, 2007)

Idiots? Or trying to save a kid?

Can I prove it? No... but I try...

TeaBrenda... you listen to no one [of the numerous posts], obviously...

This is very sad. Not for you [because I couldn't care less about you], but for your kid..


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## tasteful one (Oct 6, 2006)

I have sons, 12 and 14, who go to private school and also have to dress according to a code similiar to yours.

I think the purpose of the code is to subtly reinforce the idea that what one wears affects ones oulook on himself, life and subsequent performance. It also removes one of the primary external cues that kids so mercilessly use in judging eachother, forcing them to look beyond the packaging. 

I'm not sure what your concern is for your son to continue to wear his tie at home, I'm not sure why that is so important for you, but I'd strongly encourage you to try to answer that question, because the issue here seems to be yours, not his. And it's not a sartorial one, either.

Whatever benefit the dress code might have in terms of instilling a sense of identity or purpose, or simply in helping inculcate a desire to dress well will likely be ruined by the petty control struggle you're entering into here. At this difficult time in his life, your son needs more than anything to appreciate that his father listens and understands him and is being reasonable with him. Sometimes, that still means saying 'No!" and sticking to our guns. But over something this petty, I think not.

Let him relax. He's at home. When he grows up, you don't want your petty insistence on tie wearing to be the thing he remembers about you.


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## mambo (Dec 29, 2007)

kngrimm said:


> Way too far... I knew girls that had strict parents all throughout High School...
> 
> Never dated..never drank..never was out past dark...
> 
> ...


How true! The most cossetted young ladies almost invariably turned to excess when they were given a little free reign. In fact myself and a couple of friends always used to keep an eye on these as we knew they would be ripe as soon as they escaped from under the wing!:icon_smile_big:


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

teabrenda said:


> I say it is my decision and he must keep his tie on and properly worn all day with the shirt top button done up.


I think I know understand why I come across so many grown-up British men who childishly refuse to wear a tie in a professional setting...


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

I grew up in a very casual environment. And in my teen years, during the stylishly horrible 1980s, I went through several awful phases. I sometimes cringe at the sight of my hair or what I was wearing back then. But nevertheless I do not regret going through that stage. Dressing up like a social reject sometimes didn't mean I am one now, and after going through what fashion dictated back then, it made me appreciate timeless style even more now that I am a somewhat-responsible adult.


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## Thomas (Jan 30, 2006)

I went to a school where we had to wear a shirt and tie and it was always a battle between the students and teachers about loosening ties and keeping the top button buttoned.

Give the kid a break, let him loosen up his tie after school. Not to sound mean, but you sound extremely uptight and need to give your son a little freedom.


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## Capt Ron (Dec 28, 2007)

*The art of negotiation..........*



teabrenda said:


> I have a 15 year old son who requires to wear a uniform to school over here in the UK. Most schools over here require uniform so it is not anthing out of the ordinary.
> 
> I like him to look smart to school and this make him wear his top shirt button done up and covered with the tie. He also wears a v-neck sweater and blazer and trousers. After school he stays in his uniform, but minus the blazer, but I do not let him loosen his tie or remove it. This is where the problem has started. He says that he should be allowed to take his tie off after school, or at least wear it loose with the shirt top button undone. I say it is my decision and he must keep his tie on and properly worn all day with the shirt top button done up. His shirt collars are not over tight and I see no problem insisting he stays smartly dressed at all times.
> 
> What do others on this forum think and do you have similar rules or any suggestions I can consider ?


A loose tie is sloppy. They same look without a tie is perfectly acceptable.

If your son gets into a fight after school, when most fights occur, that tie would be best in his pocket and not a noose around his neck.

Children need to unwind after school just like adults.

Do you want your son to end up hating ties or appreciate them to help look and feel smart?

Think of the tie as a thinking cap. When it's on, it's game time. When the game is over take the tie off like an American football player would take a helmet off.

Let the tie do it's job, it's a switch.

How are his grades?

If he maintains what you consider good grades then perhaps he shows enough responsibility and can determine when it's tie time.

My girlfriend's 13 year old boy can keep his hair long as well as he maintains straight A's. We teach him that he who has the grades can make the rules in life. Unfortunately, I was there in time to establish a sense of fashion, so I'm slowly teaching him now. patience is the key.

I imagine he feels like a dork after school if all the other boys have their ties off. He'll be James Dean if he's the only one with it off.

But a loose tie......looks sloppy like an uncomfortable skin.

To you dad it's a neat look, to him it means alot more, it's about liberty.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

marlinspike said:


> I think you're giving us the business. There is no way this is real. I was in a uniform from kindergarten through the end of high school, and I still think there is no way this is real.


I'm starting to wonder the same thing, especially after re-reading the following line:



teabrenda said:


> He is allowed smart casual clothing at weekends and on school holidays, so I am not any dictator or similar that other posters on this site might think.





dopey said:


> Mind your own business, nosy parker.


This fellow signed up specifically to solicit feedback on this, and he received precisely what could be expected.



dopey said:


> This thread is for idiots, only.


That's why I can't stop reading it. :icon_smile_big:


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

You're not the first person to agree with me. Quite a few have via PM.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

marlinspike said:


> I think you're giving us the business. There is no way this is real. I was in a uniform from kindergarten through the end of high school, and I still think there is no way this is real.





dopey said:


> Mind your own business, nosy parker. This thread is for idiots, only.


And here I was beating around the bush on this one....


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## Capt Ron (Dec 28, 2007)

*Well, let's just pretend........*

Regardless of whether any post is sincere or concocted, we have the ability to choose to reply or avoid the post.

I don't concern myself with the sincerity, but I allow the post to provoke some sincere thought on the topic whether is be fiction or factual.

There's several ways to reply to any post:

1. Reply by not replying. (most efficient)

2. Reply with sincere effort. (most admirable)

3. Reply with humor. (most entertaining and often informative)

4. Reply with doubt of the sincerity of the post. (most boring)


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## LondonFogey (May 18, 2006)

When I were a lad, I and several other boys were made by our parents to change out of our school uniforms when we got home, to save wear and tear on them. A school uniform wouldn't last long after a bicycle ride along a disused railway line or a game of football in the park - (yes I come from the last generation of children to be allowed to play outdoors unsupervised...). 

If you do force your boy to wear his tie, he'll probably go off them for life. At the very least he'll develop one of the 'novel' ways of tying a tie we used to get round the rules. There was the 'stubby' - tie tied with a a huge knot and fat short blade like a figure of eight, and the 'slim jim' - tie tied with the thin side facing out and the fat end tucked into the shirt to create the illusion of a 'bootlace' tie.


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## teabrenda (Jan 7, 2008)

I have posted this for feedback and cannot believe what a lot of hypocrites appear to be on this site 

I am entitled to my opinion and you to yours.

I like my son smartly dressed for school and on occasions when we go out to good restaurants to eat etc. I dress smartly too and wear a suit and tie Monday through Friday, same as my son is required to wear his uniform. None of his out of school activities include getting changed anyway, so there is no argument here. What is wrong in him staying in his full uniform anyway. It's only recently that he starting complaining, and this week has not said a thing.

Oh, and since next week is school holidays here in the UK, he'll be in his jeans, tee shirts, hoodies, jumpers, jeans etc... Hardly smart gear that is it, but he can please himself when on holidays and weekends.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

teabrenda said:


> I have posted this for feedback and cannot believe what a lot of hypocrites appear to be on this site
> 
> I am entitled to my opinion and you to yours.
> 
> ...


Tea-

As a teacher of 13 year olds I admire the effort in enforcing rules with your boy.

As a recent teenager (some will argue I still am mentally-like my wife) I cringe when I see the effort you take in enforcing rules with your boy.

Its all a personal choice, however. If he isn't too resistant to the idea as you seem to have expressed, then maybe it doesn't bother him as much as it would others. Don't be suprised if when the cats away however, the boy will play.

Im my school (a Brooklyn public school) I see more 13 year old boxer shorts then I care to mention, so its refreshing. I try to show kids that by dressing to a certain standard, you get a certain respect. Kids in my school respect me, and enjoy me. I also make sure that, just like you have with your son, there is a time when lax dress is also appropriate. While I don'r "dress down" on Fridays, I'll usually wear something very flamboyant...conservative suit, loud sneakers or jeans, but always have on a tie (I find the Psycho Bunny Brand my go-to Friday wear).

Whatever the case may be in your situation...good luck. My wife is 5 months pregnant with our first (a girl) and I can't even begin to imagine the toils of parenthood.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

You are living in a bygone age - if you are real which I doubt.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with removing a tie at the end of day and trying to make more rules will be to your distress.

Grow up let go and realise that this is the 21st century. If he wears his uniform during the day that is quite enough.

Get real he is growing and fast and you cannot control his preferences. He is entitled to his opinion and YOUR respect, he will have sex and he will drink alcohol: So get real soon or you will be the loser.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

teabrenda said:


> I have posted this for feedback and cannot believe what a lot of hypocrites appear to be on this site
> 
> I am entitled to my opinion and you to yours.
> 
> ......


"Troll of the Week" award goes to.......

teabrenda 
Join Date: January 7th, 2008
Posts: 3


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

there are no hypocrites here - just a new member looking for confirmation of the indefensible.



teabrenda said:


> I have posted this for feedback and cannot believe what a lot of hypocrites appear to be on this site
> 
> I am entitled to my opinion and you to yours.
> 
> ...


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## tasteful one (Oct 6, 2006)

Sadly, *many* have missed the important opportunity to either stay quiet, or to show some insight and awareness in their responses. Alas, mr. teabrenda is correct in his assessment, and even sader, that means that those of us who are well intentioned and offer really sound advice have to share the same unfortunate fate as those with less sense and good judgement. Nice job, guys.

If I might, teabrenda, just remind you that your standards, eventhough they might be admirable from a sartorial vantage, might be experienced by your son as a control struggle, and that the trade off in your helping him grow into a good man might be compromised as a result. Don't confuse your needs and standards with his, and don't dismiss the importance of his experience here. And, if I might also add, do not confuse his quiescence this week for a change of heart. Most likely, he is just withdrawing from you and taking the path of least resistance.

I'd be happy to talk with you about this, privately if you wish.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Anybody watch the movie "Dead Poets Society" lately? The father sowed and reaped. This is what this thread reminds me of- a father who knows best!

A child is like a pendulum, pull it to one side, so as not to let it go to the other side, and the laws of Physics will reward you with what you do not want!

Ever heard of PK's? Preacher Kids? The worst kids? Your child is not too old to become like one.

Children Obey Your Parents In All Things. From the same Book it says to parents "Do Not Exacerbate Your Children". Some parents are sure hypocrites. And a day of reckoning is coming.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

zegnamtl said:


> "Troll of the Week" award goes to.......
> 
> teabrenda
> Join Date: January 7th, 2008
> Posts: 3


"Week"?


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## mclean5 (May 16, 2006)

All other considerations aside, 

(1) Do not forbid what you cannot prevent.

(2) Once you expend effort on a subject, you must keep expending effort on that same subject.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

perhaps, for good measure the OP should have his wife ask the boy if he's fine with this sartorial rule first.


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## teabrenda (Jan 7, 2008)

I thought that you might like an update on this forum. If you don't want to read, then that is your choice :icon_smile_wink:

Last week my son was on holiday from school and wore his own choice of clothing all the week and I could not be more pleased :icon_smile: He was doing his own thing in his own time, so as long as not been a pain in the backside,(most teenagers are some stage) I was more than happy, and so was he.

This week it's back to school and this morning was full school uniform, smartly worn all day to school, and this evening no problem in staying in uniform for the rest of the day, properly worn of course.
:icon_smile:


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## teabrenda (Jan 7, 2008)

Orsini said:


> Either keep the collar buttoned and the tie snugged up or unbutton the collar and completey remove the tie. While the latter is certainly less desirable than the former, an unbuttoned collar with loosened tie looks dreadful. You will want to be sure the shirt collar is the correct size -- not too tight.


The shirt collar is certainly not too tight and he can easily run his index finger round this all the time.

I totally agree that an unbuttoned shirt with loosened tie looks dreadful and scruffy, so that's why it stays fastened up.


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## tasteful one (Oct 6, 2006)

Good for you for coming back and giving an update!

If you and your son find this arrangement of yours agreeable, so be it! You might want to ask him about that, what his thoughts and feelings about it are, and more importantly, see if he understands your logic.

I really like the idea of you giving some thought to his responses as it will likely indicate what his deeper thoughts of you and your values about other, perhaps more valuable issues are.

For you, it might be about clothes. For him, your rules here might represent something much different. You'd do well to try to understand this from his perspective before judging the success of your rules here.


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## Mark.a.johnson (Dec 18, 2007)

While I find it difficult to believe you are able to get your teenage son not only to wear his school uniform correctly at school but also to get him to keep his tie on _at home_ as well, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't set these standards for your son. Just because everyone else's teenagers dress appallingly it doesn't mean yours should. And if the argument is over something as minor as a loose tie at the dinner table then you should be commended in instilling a pretty damn good sense of dress standards in him- you should be thankful he's not straight upstairs the minute he's home to change into ripped jeans and t-shirts with chains all over them. What we really should be asking you is how you manage to get your son to not just ignore you and rip his tie off!

Good luck anyway I'm sure you're on the right track.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Wow, this thread is back. I was expecting to read about a rebellion and a purple mohawk.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Wow, this thread is back. I was expecting to read about a rebellion and a purple mohawk.


If I had the kid's address I'd send him the purple dye!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I still wonder if the kid really exists. Maybe you could blow some purple pixie dust in the air.


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## Franko (Nov 11, 2007)

My heart goes out to the boy.


F.


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## Lookingforaclue (Nov 10, 2005)

Mark.a.johnson said:


> What we really should be asking you is how you manage to get your son to not just ignore you and rip his tie off!.


At first I noted the resurrection of this thread with a groan, thinking "Here we go feeding the trolls again!" However, on the off chance that this really is a serious thread, I suggest we plan the 2008 AAFF Fall Meeting, to include a workshop by Mr. Teabrenda on this very topic!

I have a short list of others I'd like to see make a flesh-and-blood appearance, but mentioning their names really would be feeding the trolls.

(As a backpacker, I know the hazards and penalties for feeding the bears, and I'm sure that those for feeding the trolls must be of at least equal consequence.) 

SRW


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## arturostevens (Feb 6, 2007)

What is wrong with a slightly loosened tie? I am an attoney, live in ties, and after I throw my brief case in the car, I unbutton the top button and SLIGHTLY loosen my tie, and move my neck around, and go start the process of taking off that lawyer person and putting on another more relaxed dad person. That is what a day is all about isn't it.....having an evolution from morning to night? I say let him loosen it in a way that is not slovenly, and you as dad can show him the advantages of a nicely loosened tie. Or let him neatly fold it in his pocket and hang out with his buddies without the tie. Is there an after school dress code in the UK? 

I had to wear ties my whole life, and I like to wear them in different ways. I think a slightly loose tie is "smart" enough if you do not have a huge neck.


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## stuarts8 (Jan 8, 2004)

I couldnt agree more with you , arturostevens. I have seen people with slightly loosened ties look quite smart. In fact I happen to think it looks smarter than having the top button done up In fact I believe its unhealthy for the top button to be done up.
Cheers
Stuarts8


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Wow, this thread is back. I was expecting to read about a rebellion and a purple mohawk.


I rather hope it does - the father is being utterly oppressive and in trying to 9impose such ridiculous and outmoded ways will get all he deserves.


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

*I have to agree*

I'm going to agree with a number of the posts here. If you force him to wear the tie tight after school when he wants to play or relax he'll learn to hate wearing a tie the rest of his life He may even resent you for it. As some of the other posts suggest if you relax your appearance and don't permit your son the same freedom your providing ammunition for a smart remark from him.

In our stiff collar posts I remember seeing many people refer to the fact that "They were made to wear them," now they hate the idea.

The desire to dress well has to come from within.


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## S.Otto (Aug 14, 2007)

It had the opposite effect on me. I am really uptight about how I dress now, too the limits of my budget and sometimes even a little credit card swiping. I guess I'm the odd man out. My parents now insist I dress down but I never give in. By the way I'm only 22 turned the 1st of the month. It really depends on you child; I hated it too at first. Some things grow on you and others you hate with your guts. I also think it is because I generally am more conservative than my parents. America loosened them up some.


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

teabrenda said:


> Thanks for your posts over the last 24 hours.
> 
> I like to keep my son smart as I think it provides discipline and a sense of self respect as well. I also wear a suit and tie to work ad keep my tie on after work and it stays fastened up as well. All saves on laundry as well. He is allowed smart casual clothing at weekends and on school holidays, so I am not any dictator or similar that other posters on this site might think.


Now most folks here are telling you that you should lighten up on the kid, that you should allow him some room to be relaxed &&etc.

This, in earlier years would have been good advise, and even currently in the US this might not be a bad idea.

However, you are in the UK, and over there (as things are becoming here in the US) the government knows what is best for you, and is happy to order your entire life for you, by treating your child thus, you are well preparing him for a life of subservience to a state that will dictate everything from his eating choices (no transfats, no alcohol, no cigars), the kinds of lightbulbs he can use, and even how long a shower he can take.

There really is no sense in letting the child believe that he has any real choices. This really is what is best for him.


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## suitandtieguy (Mar 9, 2007)

I was raised until 14 in the UK wore a uniform (blazer/tie etc) everyday. When we came to Canada in the 70s my father was horrified at the way teens dressed. The choice was given to me to go to boarding school and come home Christmas and summer or to wear a jacket and tie to regular school. I chose the latter but it was hard as I took alot of teasing etc. After the first year or so of high school most people accepted my "look".
This treatment did not turn me off however, it seemed to have the opposite effect on me. I feel uncomfortable without a tie and never go out without at least a blazer and a tie (usually a suit though). My Father's conditioning really worked on me.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

"made to follow a dress code at home"


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## arturostevens (Feb 6, 2007)

Stuarts8, I am glad that you see reason as well. I mean really, what ever happened to the idea of "winding down" after a long day? Is such the time to tighten up the tie for an uptight dinner? Heck no. My dad was a finnicky prep, but appreciated the wind down time, and the time for me to be a boy instead of a mannequin. I am in America, but know plenty of UK people who do not consider a tied up to the neck tie "smart" after the day is done. In fact, I think such would look even a bit wierd. But I do not live in as dressy a culture as the UK, and must profess some cultural ignorance here.


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## Mark.a.johnson (Dec 18, 2007)

arturostevens said:


> Stuarts8, I am glad that you see reason as well. I mean really, what ever happened to the idea of "winding down" after a long day? Is such the time to tighten up the tie for an uptight dinner? Heck no. My dad was a finnicky prep, but appreciated the wind down time, and the time for me to be a boy instead of a mannequin. I am in America, but know plenty of UK people who do not consider a tied up to the neck tie "smart" after the day is done. In fact, I think such would look even a bit wierd. But I do not live in as dressy a culture as the UK, and must profess some cultural ignorance here.


I think I'm going to have to disagree about the loose tie being ok. While I said earlier I find it pretty weird that this boy is required to stay dressed up at home in the evenings, if that's the way the family does things so be it. I remember having to wear my jacket and tie in the evenings to the dinner table, although I do accept times have changed.

Whenever our sons had to dress smartly, loose ties were definatly NOT OK. Just as neither were dirty, unpolished shoes or untucked shirts.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

tasteful one said:


> You might want to ask him about that, what his thoughts and feelings about it are, and more importantly, see if he understands your logic.


Have you never been around a bully? Bullies have no respect for somebody elses feeling. Bullies only make life worse. Children who have Bullies for parents learn to keep their mouth shut at a very young age. There is never honest talk around Bullies because the bully won't allow it with their own mouth. If there is a reason to believe in God it is because demons rule the lives of people who are Bullies.

Throw out the foolish dress codes. If you want a dress code for home then make it white tie for supper. If wimpy, then black tie.

Would Bill Gates be where is at today if he wore a tie all the time? When does he wear a tie? Bill Gates is not the ownly wealthy one who is not trapped by foolish dress codes.

It is amazing how many people who think they are respectable treat their children like animals.


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## Franko (Nov 11, 2007)

WA said:


> Have you never been around a bully? Bullies have no respect for somebody elses feeling. Bullies only make life worse. Children who have Bullies for parents learn to keep their mouth shut at a very young age. There is never honest talk around Bullies because the bully won't allow it with their own mouth. If there is a reason to believe in God it is because demons rule the lives of people who are Bullies.
> 
> It is amazing how many people who think they are respectable treat their FELLOW FORUM MEMERS like IDIOTS.


A great post, should be made a sticky, not just for clothing forums, nail it to the door of the Interchange.

F.


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## epl0517 (Apr 7, 2005)

He's a boy, and he's an individual. If he doesn't want to wear a tie, let him not wear a tie.


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## tasteful one (Oct 6, 2006)

*While many focus on the potential sartorial effects of this draconian parental style,*

i prefer to focus on that slightly more important role fathers take in the development of their son's self esteem and identity. Which, of course, cannot be as easily seen as an unbuttoned shirt.

If he cannot listen to his own child, he will not hear us.


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## rocco (Feb 21, 2007)

The boy should also be forced to wear a pocket square. Perhaps a cravat would be alright for casual play.


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## arturostevens (Feb 6, 2007)

I also think a monocle would become him as well....


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

teabrenda said:


> I thought that you might like an update on this forum. If you don't want to read, then that is your choice :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> Last week my son was on holiday from school and wore his own choice of clothing all the week and I could not be more pleased :icon_smile: He was doing his own thing in his own time, so as long as not been a pain in the backside,(most teenagers are some stage) I was more than happy, and so was he.
> 
> ...


You may win a battle but you are a bully hiding behind parental 'authority' and will never win the war. Get ready to lose your son.


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## teabrenda (Jan 7, 2008)

Well since I last posted all is fine and he's wearing his uniform smartly and properly all day without complaints.:icon_smile:


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## ZxExN (Apr 1, 2008)

Don't do onto others what you don't want done onto yourself. Seriously teabrenda, it can't be that long ago that you don't remember being 15?! Let him be able to dress comfortable at home. It doesn't mean wife beater and shorts, at the very least, let him take off the tie and unbutton the shirt. You're making baby Jesus cry.


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## ZxExN (Apr 1, 2008)

teabrenda said:


> Well since I last posted all is fine and he's wearing his uniform smartly and properly all day without complaints.:icon_smile:


lol yah, he's just not complaining about it to YOU.


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

He should be at rugby practice after school.


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## BPH (Mar 19, 2007)

My son also has to wear school uniform. Blazer, tie, black shoes etc. Many of the schools in England have reintroduced uniform to some extent after a gradual decline in the appearance of pupils over a number of years. Positive attitude and standards adjustment - definately for the best in my point of view. The smart turnout at the school always makes me proud to have my son there (the school is also in the Times top 20 UK so that helps!)

Another local school has gone the tennis shirt / sweatshirt way and the kids always look scruffy. 

Our rule is that as soon as he gets home he removes his uniform and hangs it up or consigns parts to the laundry basket as necessary, cleans his shoes ready for the next day etc. This keeps his uniform looking smart whilst he does 14 year old boy things out of school that are not benificial to the appearance of a uniform. (two nights a week he attends the Army cadet force so has another uniform to wear anyway)

I was always taught to do the same thing and will remove a suit and tie I have been wearing all day once I return home. If I am pottering around the house or going out for the evening I will get dressed accordingly (maybe with a tie or maybe not dependent upon the venue)


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## Mark.a.johnson (Dec 18, 2007)

I think quite a few American readers are finding this post hard to beleive: for what it's worth, here in the UK wearing a smart school uniform every day is the norm for 80 per cent of pupils: and at private schools it's not uncommon for the uniform to be really quite formal by modern standards. 

For example, our sons who attended a private day school wore a uniform until GCSEs (aged 16) similar to the one described in this post. And for sixth form (17-18) they had to be in suits: black shoes, white shirts and ties. And it is perfectly normal for teachers (and parents) to insist that ties are done up and shoes polished. 

While of course they didn't have to wear this uniform at home as well, which I think is a little odd, they did have to wear it 100 per cent of the time at school: and on weekends when on school business, such as travelling to play in matches etc. 

So while I do find it a little odd that "teabrenda" insists on his son wearing a collar and tie at home as well, it's not unbeleivable. Different families do things different ways, and perhaps in this particular one dress standards are considered to be important.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

teabrenda said:


> Well since I last posted all is fine and he's wearing his uniform smartly and properly all day without complaints.:icon_smile:


Meanwhile he is cutting class, smoking pot on the playground and just knocked up an 8th grader...JUST KIDDING!!

Seriously...while I appreciate and applaud your desire for your son to look like a gentleman (I am APPALLED by the way parents let their kids go out in public these days!!) , I think home is a place where he should be able to relax - let him take the tie off and unbutton the top button of his collar - if you go out for dinner or are having people over and want him to keep it on or put it back on, fine ...if he is not comfortable at home, eventually he will be wanting to go to friends houses after school and doing who knows what because his friends parents are probably more lenient...choose your battles (if the worst thing your son does in his teenage years is to take off or loosen his tie - you are LUCKY!!!)

Just because the shirt collar has room in it and fits doesn't mean it is comfortable or HE is comfortable...I wear 3 1/2" heels all day - do they fit? yes...do they look good? yes...can I wear them all day? yes...but when I get home, the first thing to be changed is the shoes - I can't imagine someone telling me I had to keep them on because it is the "proper" thing to do...


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## kdm57 (Mar 16, 2007)

*A different perspective...*

Having once been a military man for many years, I have a somewhat different perspective on this topic.

We were always inspected in our uniforms in boot camp (officer training). There was an art to it. We had to wear every single type of uniform and be inspected in it, again and again. Chow hall was where a splatter of pancake syrup or barbeque ribs could ruin a uniform, just before the dreaded morning inspection or even during the day. I knew some who would skip breakfast altogether to avoid potential demerits for an unkempt uniform.

Over time, we'd all learn the tricks (especially from the veterans) of looking sharp. Both the guys and the gals. How to tuck in our shirts ("the tuck"), so as to eliminate all that excess fabric between the armpits and the waist. How crisp, freshly-pressed gaberdine-material uniforms (they were optional and cost extra than the standard uniforms) with thier crisp appearance received better marks from the evaluators during uniform inspections than 100% cotton uniforms. Shoe shines had their own curriculum. And so forth. Being an officer required that you set the example. One technique was to inspect your uniforms (collar devices, ribbons, belt buckles, socks, shoes, etc.) the night before. That meant no embarrassments the next day. For planning purposes, having a backup set of shoes, uniforms, etc. at the "office" was wise. Just in case. Nowadays, I see the same behavior in the executive suite. Men with a backup suit at the ready in the office. An extra tie. Armed and ready even for "casual dress" days. And female execs take the same precaution and planning. There are lots of layers of the onion on this topic, but you get the picture...

My gentle advice would be to distinguish between in-school attire versus "after the bell rings". It's generally OK for everyone to loosen their tie, so to speak, when the business day is over. And the "office job" for your son, in a sense, is going to school. Your son is the one who is going to have to present himself to the world for many decades to come and carry his way through interviews, in particular, and demonstrate knowledge and confidence. If he's impeccably groomed and attired in such interviews, it speaks volumes about him in a very competitive world. At the same time, kids just want to be kids. So I have to be careful when talking with my own son that I don't come across as super-serious on this subject when he can only stomach small doses of this topic. There's a time and a place for everything, the saying goes. Good luck!

*The "tuck":* www.tuckinyourshirt.com

When dressing, tuck your tee shirt into the waistband of your underwear to keep the blue shirt from riding up. Don't just jam the shirt into the trouser. Keep the fly open and tuck the shirt in. Reach around inside the trousers and pull the shirttails down to straighten them, this makes the shirt more comfortable and minimizes wrinkles.

*Gig line*: The alignment of the uniform's shirt, belt buckle and fly


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## teabrenda (Jan 7, 2008)

These replies are much appreciated.
He now has his collars properly starched.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Mark.a.johnson said:


> I think quite a few American readers are finding this post hard to beleive: for what it's worth, here in the UK wearing a smart school uniform every day is the norm for 80 per cent of pupils: and at private schools it's not uncommon for the uniform to be really quite formal by modern standards.
> 
> For example, our sons who attended a private day school wore a uniform until GCSEs (aged 16) similar to the one described in this post. And for sixth form (17-18) they had to be in suits: black shoes, white shirts and ties. And it is perfectly normal for teachers (and parents) to insist that ties are done up and shoes polished.
> 
> ...


The mind that is controlled by vices sometimes like to keep and sometimes show off their trophies. This is exactly what teabrenda is doing by showing the rest of us that teabrenda has a vice. It is not normal behaviour, but clearly abnormal.

Each person has a life (ownership)- parents do not own any child. Life has some requirements, but too many becomes abnormal in a sickly way. People of all ages are not machines- forcing a child to be a machine is abnormal behaviour. I think this thread should be removed and teabrenda and name be removed from Ask Andy so this trophy from a mentally ill person is no longer here.


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## Jonny (Oct 9, 2010)

For have many years did you have this rule? Even when he was younger, running around playing?


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

As an aside, I went to public school and there was no dress code. Yet I consciously wore a dress shirt and tie to school everyday. I was literally the only student to do so, and most teachers didn't even wear a tie. I suppose it was my own way of being rebellious.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

harvey_birdman said:


> As an aside, I went to public school and there was no dress code. Yet I consciously wore a dress shirt and tie to school everyday. I was literally the only student to do so, and most teachers didn't even wear a tie. I suppose it was my own way of being rebellious.


An ancient post resurrected for little reason.

Do remeber that a Public School in the USA means the very opposite of a Public School in the USA. Most such schools in the UK havea very formal and appropriate dress regime.


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## Padme (Aug 18, 2009)

My children didn't go to school under the 12th grade, but my oldest attended college, and he wore nice jeans and a clean nicer T shirt with an undershirt. He's out and working now and dresses pretty much the same way. 

My 2nd child is attending college right now. He likes to dress up more and likes button down shirts. He's a senator in student council and they have to be out in public representing the school. He helped out at an art showing, but they wore their student council t shirts, and will soon be attending a leadership conference in Dallas (Laura Bush will be there.) and I had to go buy a new blue blazer for his gray pants.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Was this real?


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Trip English said:


> Was this real?


 I'm thinking not. But just to input, isn't there something about a loosened tie that is uniquely pulled off by the prep student? I certainly did it back then and looking back at those picture, think it looked quite appropriate.


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## Jonny (Oct 9, 2010)

Actually with so much more weird things going on in the world, I think it's for real. I've heard of similar stories with strict upper class parents still having strict dress codes for their children, but not so strict like this for everyday wear.

Be careful. If he was 15 in 2008, he will turn 18 soon. Maybe he just waits for his 18th birthday to take his tie off, and destroy it with scissors, un-tuck his button shirt and threw it away, the same with the trousers, and then begin a big revolt. Maybe he feels like you threats him like a house boy-domestic worker boy having to wear a uniform. Is he wearing a name tag too? Is it part of the school uniform?


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## Guest (Mar 28, 2021)

He’s now 28 and still dresses immaculately as he did till he left school. A little discipline goes a long way.


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## katakakalufkia (18 d ago)

Guest said:


> He’s now 28 and still dresses immaculately as he did till he left school. A little discipline goes a long way.


You really think he wore a suit and tie by choice in college? And he still does every day?


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

I didn't join this forum till around 2012.

This thread has nevertheless got me feeling all nostalgic.

Though it seemed a little weird to my southern California sensibilities.


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