# Dressing like children???



## DaveS (Dec 11, 2011)

Hi All,

This is not really a rant so much as an expression of amazement!

I've been doing some temporary jobs the last few months grading tests for various U. S. secondary education departments. The group is filled with people mostly my age - early 50's to early 60's. Having been self-employed for some time, this is the first time in a number of years that I've been out in an office-type environment and work force. What I've seen people wearing is, to me, almost beyond belief!

Here are some examples:
*Baggy cargo shorts, hanging past the knee
*LOTS of t-shirts, often with logos, appliques, or "witty sayings"
*Virtually ALL shirts so oversized that the shoulder seam is about halfway down the lateral aspect of the deltoid
*LOTS of athletic shoes, usually fairly beat up, or if not, in garish neon colors, oh and Crocs (usually on very overweight women)
*Sweat pants
*Shiny, Baggy athletic shorts with silver strips

I finally realized..this is the way young children, say, 2-12 or so dress! And this is "adults" in their early 50's and up!

Again, not ranting, but I look around and say to myself, "Really?"


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Yup. It is this inwash of kiddywear that we stand against, unbowed and unbloodied, providing a beacon of taste to a fumbling world. But there is hope. More and more in the media we find articles of the Millenials and their chorts turning away from the Tattered Chic of the Sixtie's Kids. Be strong. We will yet prevail.


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## Fatman (May 7, 2013)

DaveS said:


> Hi All,
> 
> This is not really a rant so much as an expression of amazement!
> 
> ...


I recently watched, "The Philadelphia Story" with my 13 year old daughter, who was so impressed with the sophisticated dialog, in comparison to today. She also asked about the clothing, as well as in comparison to today.

We are a slovenly culture, whether it be our language, appearance, or intellectual capacity. We want easy, fast, dumbed down, and comfort.

Our comfort, however, doesn't seem to be extended to the comfort of others, only our own.

Think of the retinal trauma of the one sitting behind the 50 pounds of potatoes stuffed into a 40 pound bag!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL. Paraphrasing Lou Gossett as Gunnery Sgt. Foley addressing a new group of officer trainees in that classic movie "An Officer and A Gentleman," Where you been all your life, sweet-pea(s)? ...listening to Rock-N-Roll, participating in orgies and bad mouthing your country, Ill bet?" Not sure why, but that scene played in my memory, as I read the OP? crazy: Indeed, a very real possibility!) Are not the sartorial conditions described by the OP a major part of the AAAC reason for being?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

DaveS said:


> I finally realized..this is the way young children, say, 2-12 or so dress! And this is "adults" in their early 50's and up!


Next time -









Repeat after me, "What's your major malfunction, n******s?!?!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. Paraphrasing Lou Gossett as Gunnery Sgt. Foley addressing a new group of officer trainees in that classic movie "An Officer and A Gentleman," Where you been all your life, sweet-pea(s)? ...*listening to Rock-N-Roll, participating in orgies and bad mouthing your country*, Ill bet?" Not sure why, but that scene played in my memory, as I read the OP? crazy: Indeed, a very real possibility!) Are not the sartorial conditions described by the OP a major part of the AAAC reason for being?


You say that as if it's a bad thing.....:icon_smile_wink:


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Last week I was at a function where the dress code had been specified as "smart".
Though here in Europe, most of the guests were Australian, or at least people who had spent a long time in Australia.
I was the only one wearing a suit. Quite a casual suit, with a wool tie, and spectator shoes. 
One Englishman wore a sportscoat which looked like linen, but was afflicted with a huge designer label seeming stencilled across the back of it, in white paint ! 
He also wore a tie, and as he ditched the jacket early on in the evening, didn't look too bad.
One other man had a tie, but as his shirt was untucked, it just looked incongruous, especially as he had his sleeves rolled up to show off his tattoos.
All of the other males had shirts with collars instead of the T-shirts they'd been wearing earlier that day, but all untucked though. That was the thing that really struck me, the untucked shirts.
Is this the Australian definition of "smart"?

The next day I got looks of incredulity and questions about where exactly I was going when I headed off into the city wearing linen trousers, saddle shoes and an open-necked TM Lewin shirt.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

My pet peeve is grown men with backpack briefcases. Combined with the typical chubby builds and baggy juvenile clothes they look like giant 8 year-olds.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

This thread brings to mind those goofy adults who thinkt that they can get away with wearing Converse All-Star sneakers with suits and tuxes. Apparently, it's now a "thing" for the groom and his groomsmen to wear All-Stars with their ill-fitting black suits or rented tuxes for the wedding. What's this all about? Do they really think they look cute? I mean, it might have been cute the first time a teenager did that in the 1990s, but men in their late 20s and 30s doing that today? It's like, c'mon guys, do you realize how utterly stupid you look?
Converse is just loving it becasue the brand's appeal has expanded so much. Have you guys seen those ads in men's magazines for All-Stars? The caption says: "Shoes are boring. Wear sneakers." And it shows a bunch of black shoes in rows with one pair of sneakers sticking out. Guys actually believe this crap?
I know the guys here know better, but I just wanted to rant for a bit.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Sneakers make me feel slightly queasy. Cuffdaddy taught me to be less absolute in my judgements. However (sorry CD) only a moron would wear these things after their thirteenth birthday.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Unless one is using them as exercise shoes. Personally, I always have a pair for that reason but only for that reason. I certainly never wear then under any other circumstances and this is California, for Heaven's sake!


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

triklops55 said:


> This thread brings to mind those goofy adults who thinkt that they can get away with wearing Converse All-Star sneakers with suits and tuxes. Apparently, it's now a "thing" for the groom and his groomsmen to wear All-Stars with their ill-fitting black suits or rented tuxes for the wedding. What's this all about? Do they really think they look cute? I mean, it might have been cute the first time a teenager did that in the 1990s, but men in their late 20s and 30s doing that today? It's like, c'mon guys, do you realize how utterly stupid you look?
> Converse is just loving it becasue the brand's appeal has expanded so much. Have you guys seen those ads in men's magazines for All-Stars? The caption says: "Shoes are boring. Wear sneakers." And it shows a bunch of black shoes in rows with one pair of sneakers sticking out. Guys actually believe this crap?
> I know the guys here know better, but I just wanted to rant for a bit.


Been a DJ for 25 years and I have never seen it worse. Flip Flops with bridesmaid dresses (and this is not late night - this is walking down the aisle), sneakers on groomsmen and grooms, guests wearing khakis - polo shirt - jeans, men wearing shirts and ties with no jackets.

If you cant get people to dress appropriately for weddings and funerals - not sure what to say.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> Unless one is using them as exercise shoes. Personally, I always have a pair for that reason but only for that reason. I certainly never wear then under any other circumstances and this is California, for Heaven's sake!


Oldsarge, my friend, PM me your address and shoe size and I will post you a pair of decent exercise shoes.

Then we can put this whole sorry Converse episode behind us.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

triklops55 said:


> Converse is just loving it becasue the brand's appeal has expanded so much. Have you guys seen those ads in men's magazines for All-Stars? The caption says: "Shoes are boring. Wear sneakers." And it shows a bunch of black shoes in rows with one pair of sneakers sticking out. Guys actually believe this crap?
> I know the guys here know better, but I just wanted to rant for a bit.


It wouldn't surprise me if the Converse Chuck Taylor All-Star is the most sold model of footwear in the world today. Some brand of men's shoes ought to have fun with this and do an ad with a line stretching into infinity of duplicate absolutely filthy-looking Converse-clone sneakers with a single well-polished good pair of shoes sticking out and the words, "Sneakers are boring. Wear shoes."


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

triklops55 said:


> This thread brings to mind those goofy adults who thinkt that they can get away with wearing Converse All-Star sneakers with suits and tuxes. Apparently, it's now a "thing" for the groom and his groomsmen to wear All-Stars with their ill-fitting black suits or rented tuxes for the wedding. What's this all about? Do they really think they look cute? I mean, it might have been cute the first time a teenager did that in the 1990s, but men in their late 20s and 30s doing that today? It's like, c'mon guys, do you realize how utterly stupid you look?


I bought a very nice high-end tie to wear to my brother-in-law's wedding this fall; it incorporates their wedding colors without being too gaudy. Sadly, I will not be wearing it as I accepted his offer to be a groomsman - I will instead be wearing the exact same MW rental as his best man. With Converse. The bridesmaids are wearing flip-flops, I believe.

The question may have been rhetorical but YES, I do realize.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

The sneaker-with-suits/tuxes goes back to at least the '60s, but normally(?), then, only on the class clown at the prom. I get the impression now that it's a part of the protest against the oligarchical-patriarchal-sexist-racist, blah, blah "suits" culture...and a desperate denial of getting older.

I mean, if I'm dressed like I'm ready to join the band or the team, then I must be attractive to the 20-something hotties, right?


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## guymac (Nov 16, 2011)

It's a shame really, grown men dressing up like teenagers. Maybe they're having a difficult time letting go of their youth.


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## DaveS (Dec 11, 2011)

Thank you all for your replies!

I couldn't agree more about the whole converse sneakers look! Back about 15 years ago my sister in-law got remarried. The sister of the groom - a beautiful girl in her very early 20's - changed in to a tasteful summer dress worn with...laced-up combat boots. All the little teenage girls thought she as the height of fashion, the rest of us, of course, did not.

I guess, in thinking about it, if I had to pick one salient feature of this menagerie, it would be the bad fit. Almost invariably, people just seem to pick clothes several sizes too big. As mentioned, for men, this seems to show up most noticably in the shirt they wear.

Grranimals for adults...


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## alkydrinker (Apr 24, 2012)

I hope my post doesn't bend the rules too far, but I see a political aspect to this cultural shift toward dressing like children. In the US and many other places in the "western world," I feel that adults have been infantilized while being taught to be dependent and obedient to government. Additionally, any sort of remaining rugged individualism is being re-framed by the government and their media servants as criminality. Cultural decay and acting and dressing like children is an outgrowth of all that.

To show my cards, I am a pretty hardcore anti-establishment libertarian person. I DON'T dress well as a way of appearing establishment and worming myself a warm piece of the sidewalk in the world of government/banker/cronyism that deals in OPM (Other People's Money). Quite the opposite. Dressing traditionally for me is partly a political statement in reasserting an old American tradition of dignified individualism and competence of self. No, I'm not going to smile when someguy at the airport says he has to molest me and, no, I'm not going look or sound like a fool when rebuking the chubby man-boys engaged in the disgusting routine.

Basically, I want to see men be men again. To me, that means dignity, decency, competence, generosity, etc. It doesn't mean drinking a bunch of beer and beating your chest when your favorite sports team wins a game. And, it doesn't mean looking like a thug or wearing some government-issued costume and bugging your eyes out at other people in some empty display of dominance. That's all childish behavior. Tyranny only becomes possible when people lose their dignity and end up like jelly fish with no inner compass of their own anymore.

Ok, rant over.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

alkydrinker said:


> I hope my post doesn't bend the rules too far, but I see a political aspect to this cultural shift toward dressing like children. In the US and many other places in the "western world," I feel that adults have been infantilized while being taught to be dependent and obedient to government. Additionally, any sort of remaining rugged individualism is being re-framed by the government and their media servants as criminality. Cultural decay and acting and dressing like children is an outgrowth of all that.
> 
> To show my cards, I am a pretty hardcore anti-establishment libertarian person. I DON'T dress well as a way of appearing establishment and worming myself a warm piece of the sidewalk in the world of government/banker/cronyism that deals in OPM (Other People's Money). Quite the opposite. Dressing traditionally for me is partly a political statement in reasserting an old American tradition of dignified individualism and competence of self. No, I'm not going to smile when someguy at the airport says he has to molest me and, no, I'm not going look or sound like a fool when rebuking the chubby man-boys engaged in the disgusting routine.
> 
> ...


If ever you run for office you are guaranteed my vote.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

alkydrinker said:


> I hope my post doesn't bend the rules too far, but I see a political aspect to this cultural shift toward dressing like children. In the US and many other places in the "western world," I feel that adults have been infantilized while being taught to be dependent and obedient to government. Additionally, any sort of remaining rugged individualism is being re-framed by the government and their media servants as criminality. Cultural decay and acting and dressing like children is an outgrowth of all that.
> 
> To show my cards, I am a pretty hardcore anti-establishment libertarian person. I DON'T dress well as a way of appearing establishment and worming myself a warm piece of the sidewalk in the world of government/banker/cronyism that deals in OPM (Other People's Money). Quite the opposite. Dressing traditionally for me is partly a political statement in reasserting an old American tradition of dignified individualism and competence of self. No, I'm not going to smile when someguy at the airport says he has to molest me and, no, I'm not going look or sound like a fool when rebuking the chubby man-boys engaged in the disgusting routine.
> 
> ...


Hip Hip Hooray!!!


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

My sense as to why adults dress as children (or teenagers - in some ways worse) is that no one these days wants to "grow up", for to be a "grownup" is to be "old", and with the current state of the American waistline, people want "comfort" rather than style (i.e. they want to wear clothes that do not remind them that they spend too much time eating and sitting, and not enough in physical action).


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

Here Here!! (Shouted with my skull cap, 'I'm with stupid' T-shirt, cell phone holster, cycling shorts, and flip flops on heading out to Friday Happy Hour).


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

triklops55 said:


> This thread brings to mind those goofy adults who thinkt that they can get away with wearing Converse All-Star sneakers with suits and tuxes. Apparently, it's now a "thing" for the groom and his groomsmen to wear All-Stars with their ill-fitting black suits or rented tuxes for the wedding. What's this all about? Do they really think they look cute? I mean, it might have been cute the first time a teenager did that in the 1990s, but men in their late 20s and 30s doing that today? It's like, c'mon guys, do you realize how utterly stupid you look?
> Converse is just loving it becasue the brand's appeal has expanded so much. Have you guys seen those ads in men's magazines for All-Stars? The caption says: "Shoes are boring. Wear sneakers." And it shows a bunch of black shoes in rows with one pair of sneakers sticking out. Guys actually believe this crap?
> I know the guys here know better, but I just wanted to rant for a bit.


This post is very timely for me. The other day my youngest son (21) and his girlfriend were talking about a possible engagement/wedding down the road (quite a bit I hope) and the subject of wedding attire came up. I cannot remember what my son's GF said she was going to wear (I kind of went numb after that) but they brought up the possibility of my son and the groomsmen wearing Converse All-Stars. Of course my countenance sank. I did share my displeasure about their choice of footwear, but not to the point of argument. Like I said this blessed event should be down the road since my son is starting seminary in January and has no means to support a wife. However, when and if this marriage does become a reality, I will sit them both down and counsel them. Not only am I my son's father, I will also be the officiating minister. I will share with them the sacredness of a marriage ceremony and their wedding vows should be taken seriously inwardly and outwardly. Believe me, if they go through with this ridiculous shoe choice, they will look back as the years go by and wish they hadn't. Not to put the blame on my son's GF, she was the more vocal of the two about this. I believe I can easily change his mind. Ah, youth is so wasted on young people.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Claybuster said:


> This post is very timely for me. The other day my youngest son (21) and his girlfriend were talking about a possible engagement/wedding down the road (quite a bit I hope) and the subject of wedding attire came up. I cannot remember what my son's GF said she was going to wear (I kind of went numb after that) but they brought up the possibility of my son and the groomsmen wearing Converse All-Stars. Of course my countenance sank. I did share my displeasure about their choice of footwear, but not to the point of argument. Like I said this blessed event should be down the road since my son is starting seminary in January and has no means to support a wife. However, when and if this marriage does become a reality, I will sit them both down and counsel them. Not only am I my son's father, I will also be the officiating minister. I will share with them the sacredness of a marriage ceremony and their wedding vows should be taken seriously inwardly and outwardly. Believe me, if they go through with this ridiculous shoe choice, they will look back as the years go by and wish they hadn't. Not to put the blame on my son's GF, she was the more vocal of the two about this. I believe I can easily change his mind. Ah, youth is so wasted on young people.


A troublingly frivolous approach towards faith too, if I may say so.


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

A half dozen or so years ago a close friend of my wife's did as she said she would. She showed up in a white wedding dress and cowboy boots. At a wedding in downtown Chicago. I was incredulous, and now it seems this kind of thing is catching on. 

I hope you can get ahead of this before they make a mistake that will be regretted down the road.


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## alkydrinker (Apr 24, 2012)

I think the trendiness in pushing the envelope on just how dressed-down and casual we can be in public is terrible. Beach wear all over the place, pajamas being worn to class at universities, etc. 

My previous rant withstanding, I try not to be overly judgmental on some of the less-than-ideal sartorial choices out there. These days, a man has to go out of his way to dress well ...the casual dreck is all around and practically force fed. It's actually a pretty annoying fact that you have to be "into clothes" to dress decent today. I guess that just goes back to what is repeated a lot around this forum: in days-gone-by the default clothing choices much much better. I know it has been pointed out here before that poor people of the old days dressed better than many of today's well-to-do.


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## Traser (Jan 10, 2013)

My favorite is church on a Sunday.

When it becomes clear that a baptism is scheduled that week then I know it will be entertaining...........for all the wrong reasons! It's the folk who rarely attend church and don't seem to know how to dress in a 'formal' or 'appropriate' situation:

Women and teenage girls wearing dresses and skirts that would be considered outrageous in a nightclub; men wearing all sorts of combinations of formal, casual, formal-casual, casual-formal, comical, tragi-comical, tragic.

Oh and the tattoos that are on show - usually on the shoulders, calves, thighs, necks, arms of the 'ladies' in church.#

One day, I swear, I will fall off the pew in a fit of hysterical giggles!!

When my two children were baptised, the curate commended my wife on the fact that our baptism party, "Knew how to dress properly!"


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Shaver said:


> A troublingly frivolous approach towards faith too, if I may say so.


Shaver, I agree. I know that both my son and his girlfriend are committed believers in our faith, but this is just another step away from the traditional views of approaching matters of faith, whether it be Christianity, Judaism, etc. Not to beat the proverbial horse to death:deadhorse-a:but this is just another example of how extreme some people go to express their individuality, of which, for the most part I applaud. But, if I was an atheist, I wouldn't want them to dress in this manner. It just doesn't look good. Whether we like it or not, people judge us and sometimes make important decisions regarding us based on our how we dress. I know that 35 years ago I wish I had made a better selection in my choice of tux for myself and my groomsmen, but instead went with the 70s popular white tux for the groom and burgundy tux for the groomsmen. I sigh every time I look at my wedding pictures. My wife, however, looked beautiful in her flowing white gown (with white heels I might add).


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## FJW (Jan 25, 2012)

When dining out, I'm always tempted to ask the hostess if we can sit in the non-sweatpants section?:biggrin2:


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## Fiddlermatt (Jul 3, 2013)

alkydrinker said:


> I think the trendiness in pushing the envelope on just how dressed-down and casual we can be in public is terrible. Beach wear all over the place, pajamas being worn to class at universities, etc.


^^^
I find people wearing pajamas to class absolutely appalling. What is even more disturbing is the number of who wear them to my university's business classes. Nothing like sitting in managerial accounting being the professor and I are the only ones with real pants on.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Claybuster said:


> Not to beat the proverbial horse to death, but this is just another example of how extreme some people go to express their individuality, of which, for the most part I applaud.


These days, I think it's the guy wearing a tie that expressing his individuality.


> "When I see a kid with three or four rings in his nose, I know there is absolutely nothing extraordinary about that person."


 P. J. O'Rourke.



Claybuster said:


> But, if I was an atheist, I wouldn't want them to dress in this manner. It just doesn't look good.


Speaking as a non-religious person, I'd say it's important to have respect for the ceremony, for the marriage, whatever way you choose to celebrate it.
My own wedding was fairly informal, and conducted by a Unitarian minister at a country house, but I was dismayed by the number of guests who arrived without ties, as if they were a badge of oppression or something.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

alkydrinker said:


> I hope my post doesn't bend the rules too far, but I see a political aspect to this cultural shift toward dressing like children. In the US and many other places in the "western world," I feel that adults have been infantilized while being taught to be dependent and obedient to government. Additionally, any sort of remaining rugged individualism is being re-framed by the government and their media servants as criminality. Cultural decay and acting and dressing like children is an outgrowth of all that...


A tremendous post. I've only hinted at this previously - felt such comments should be more veiled than overt on a clothing forum - but alkydrinker was at once tasteful and on topic. Like Shaver, I too will support you if should ever take leave of your senses and run for office!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Claybuster said:


> Shaver, I agree. I know that both my son and his girlfriend are committed believers in our faith, but this is just another step away from the traditional views of approaching matters of faith, whether it be Christianity, Judaism, etc. Not to beat the proverbial horse to death:deadhorse-a:but this is just another example of how extreme some people go to express their individuality, of which, for the most part I applaud. But, if I was an atheist, I wouldn't want them to dress in this manner. It just doesn't look good. Whether we like it or not, people judge us and sometimes make important decisions regarding us based on our how we dress. I know that 35 years ago I wish I had made a better selection in my choice of tux for myself and my groomsmen, but instead went with the 70s popular white tux for the groom and burgundy tux for the groomsmen. I sigh every time I look at my wedding pictures. My wife, however, looked beautiful in her flowing white gown (with white heels I might add).


I have not married but I believe that one day I shall. When I stand in front of my bride, family and friends and whilst making my solemn promises before them and the Lord, this is probably the least likely possible time and place that I will feel compelled to remind everybody what a zany so-and-so I am. I honestly just don't get it. :icon_scratch:

.
.
.
.
.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. Paraphrasing Lou Gossett as Gunnery Sgt. Foley addressing a new group of officer trainees in that classic movie "An Officer and A Gentleman," Where you been all your life, sweet-pea(s)? ...listening to Rock-N-Roll, participating in orgies and bad mouthing your country, Ill bet?" Not sure why, but that scene played in my memory, as I read the OP? crazy: Indeed, a very real possibility!) Are not the sartorial conditions described by the OP a major part of the AAAC reason for being?


OORAH!!! My fav film scene of that ilk is in Heartbreak Ridge when Gunny (Clint) rips the earring out of the rock-n-roller's ear! Semper Fi!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Odradek said:


> These days, I think it's the guy wearing a tie that expressing his individuality.


Most definitely! Nowadays when I wear a tie to work I can be sure that I will be the ONLY man on my Section wearing a tie, one of only 2 or 3 on the Department and of only a handful at the entire Agency.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Shaver said:


> I have not married but I believe that one day I shall. When I stand in front of my bride, family and friends and whilst making my solemn promises before them and the Lord, this is probably the least likely possible time and place that I will feel compelled to remind everybody what a zany so-and-so I am. I honestly just don't get it. :icon_scratch:


Amen to that!!!!:icon_saint7kg:


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## Gopherguy (Feb 27, 2012)

alkydrinker said:


> I hope my post doesn't bend the rules too far, but I see a political aspect to this cultural shift toward dressing like children. In the US and many other places in the "western world," I feel that adults have been infantilized while being taught to be dependent and obedient to government. Additionally, any sort of remaining rugged individualism is being re-framed by the government and their media servants as criminality. Cultural decay and acting and dressing like children is an outgrowth of all that.
> 
> To show my cards, I am a pretty hardcore anti-establishment libertarian person. I DON'T dress well as a way of appearing establishment and worming myself a warm piece of the sidewalk in the world of government/banker/cronyism that deals in OPM (Other People's Money). Quite the opposite. Dressing traditionally for me is partly a political statement in reasserting an old American tradition of dignified individualism and competence of self. No, I'm not going to smile when someguy at the airport says he has to molest me and, no, I'm not going look or sound like a fool when rebuking the chubby man-boys engaged in the disgusting routine.
> 
> ...


I agree with the sentiments of the thread, but I think you're projecting. Unless you have actual evidence, then you're simply blaming something you disagree with as the cause of the problem. However, I'm definitely with you on the airports.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

DaveS said:


> Hi All,
> 
> This is not really a rant so much as an expression of amazement!
> 
> ...


What I'm thinking is that there's no dress code.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Grayson said:


> My pet peeve is grown men with backpack briefcases. Combined with the typical chubby builds and baggy juvenile clothes they look like giant 8 year-olds.


Maybe they carry a lot of items?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Shaver said:


> Sneakers make me feel slightly queasy. Cuffdaddy taught me to be less absolute in my judgements. However (sorry CD) only a moron would wear these things after their thirteenth birthday.


So you've never worn sneakers?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Howard said:


> So you've never worn sneakers?


Not since I was about 11 years old.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Just an idea: if someone says they're going to wear sneakers, why not tell them it's* really* clichéd (which it is), and suggest instead yellow wellies? The genius might actually go for it, then you can laugh yourself sick.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

High on the my list of "things not to worry about" and of "things that are unimportant" is how other people dress when attending church.


Important is:
1. That they attend
2. That they pray


How they dress is totally irrelevant.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

DaveS said:


> Hi All,
> 
> This is not really a rant so much as an expression of amazement!
> 
> ...


I have only seen people (mostly boys) ranging from 13 to 19 years of age wearing baggy cargo pants and shorts, hanging past the knee (me seeing girls wear such pants and shorts is extremely rare). These styles of pants and shorts always have disgusted and always will disgust me.

I wear heavy metal tee shirts (such as Anthrax and Iron Maiden) and other tee shirts, often with logos, appliques, or "witty sayings" at 37 years of age (I will be 38 in 6 months and 9 days).

I have also only seen people (mostly boys) ranging from 13 to 19 years of age wearing virtually ALL shirts so oversized that the shoulder seam is about halfway down the lateral aspect of the deltoid (me seeing girls wear such shirts is also extremely rare). These styles of shirts also always have disgusted and always will disgust me.

LOTS of athletic shoes, usually fairly beat up, or if not, in garish neon colors and Crocs are yet more garments I have mostly seen on people (mostly boys) ranging from 13 to 19 years of age (me seeing girls wear such shoes is yet more things I see people wearing that is extremely rare). The beat up condition I rarely see but the garish neon colors are all over the place (yes, these are yet more things that always have disgusted and always will disgust me). I wear walking sneakers by New Balance (which are a type of athletic shoe) with shorts and sometimes jeans at 37 years of age. Despite being in my late 30s, I am thinking about buying myself a pair of Crocs, but only a pair of Crocs that can be worn when swimming.

I (and every other person I know that is 15 or older) only wear sweatpants to work out. Otherwise, I only see people ranging from 1 year to 14 years of age wearing sweatpants for anything other than working out.

I have never seen or even heard of shiny, baggy athletic shorts with silver strips, but they sound like something that would always, yes, you guessed it, disgust me. Such shorts sound like they, yes, you guessed it again, a thing that I would see people ranging from 13 to 19 years of age (yes, you guessed it yet again, mostly boys) would wear. Seeing girls wear such shorts would be, yes, you guessed it several times now, extremely rare.

Perhaps people 50 and over wearing such horrid outfits under most or all circumstances is a Midwest thing? I never saw such horrid outfit choices (except for the ones you mentioned that, IMO, are not horrid at all or only horrid under certain circumstances) mentioned above worn by people 15 and over or 20 and over in California (which I have only been to twice but to many different areas), the Northeast (I have been to many different areas of this region many times but I have been to Long Island and New York City alone more than the rest of the Northeast combined), the Mid Atlantic (which I have only been to three times but but to many different areas) or the Southeast (including Florida). I have only been to Florida 3 times (the Orlando metropolitan area only, which is not that big, to be honest with you) and The Carolinas 3 times (all within a 50 mile radius only, I'm afraid).

The outfits that you mentioned that, IMO, are actually horrid are in fact, age inappropriate for people that are 15 and over or 20 and over (depending on the outfit). However, the outfits you mentioned that, IMO, are not at all horrid (or horrid only under certain circumstances), are appropriate for all ages, for 10 and over only, for 12 and over only, for 13 and over only, for 15 and over only, for 18 and over only, for 20 and over only or for 21 and over only (again, all depending on the outfit).


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

Shaver said:


> Not since I was about 11 years old.


How do you stay in shape, or do you mean you haven't written them in public?


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## BrianPaul (Jun 12, 2009)

Audi,

Do you shop at Walmart?


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## MicTester (Oct 8, 2009)

Shaver said:


> only a moron would wear these things after their thirteenth birthday.


...and the gentlemen on the Center Court this Sunday, I guess.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

BrianPaul said:


> Audi,
> 
> Do you shop at Walmart?


No, not for clothes anyway. Why do you ask, BrianPaul? I clearly indicated I dislike most of those outfit choices (and very strongly, I might add).

Maybe it's just me, but you sound like you are being very snide. Whether you are being snide or not, I have no idea. If you are being snide, however, I really don't appreciate that at all.


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## commandlinegamer (Jun 6, 2013)

The comment on pyjamas in class piqued my interest.

Can't say I've seen that, but I did come across a chap in a onesie in the local supermarket a couple of weeks ago. IIRC, a branch elsewhere in the country (UK) did suggest people ought to be a bit more robustly dressed when shopping.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Pajamas in class are absolutely something I see at my public university in suburban New Jersey. I don't understand it, personally. Going out in sweatpants would make me ridiculously uncomfortable -- I'd feel like I was simultaneously naked and utterly sexless. 

Of course, I don't think most people understand the value of comfortable clothes that look good, on campus or off. There's this recent trend among the Pitti Uomo set of wearing sweatpants, t-shirts, and baggy sweaters -- the "cozy boy" look. I don't get it, frankly, but it occured to me recently that, given the way very fashionable tailoring fits, it might appeal. I tend to gravitate towards clothes that are the mid-point between their Isaia and their sweatpants -- so a soft-shouldered jacket which is none too tight, trousers that don't bind up anywhere, and shoes that I can walk in.


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## BrianPaul (Jun 12, 2009)

Audi,

Walmart is the Mecca of poor fashion choices. What you described is so at odds with typical adult dress among Americans that I merely tried to find a commonplace event that could explain the disparity. If you don't shop at Walmart (or similar places), it might explain why you rarely see the fashions described by the OP. It is hard to imagine you didn't see grown men wearing oversized cargo shorts if you're an Iron Maiden fan, at least assuming you caught them on tour these last couple of years.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

What the OP describes is commonplace throughout New York and New Jersey - in malls, restaurants, street wear, etc. and often in places where being well-dressed used to be understood (church, weddings, et al.). I have often noticed that I was the only person in a given venue wearing a collared shirt or a pair of khakis. Wearing a polo/OCBD, khakis, and boat shoes will guarantee that I'll be one of the best dressed persons in my milieu.

Very sad...


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Tiger said:


> Wearing a polo/OCBD, khakis, and boat shoes will guarantee that I'll be one of the best dressed persons in my milieu.


Although I agree with your observations, being the most formally dressed is not the same as being the best-dressed. Not saying you aren't, almost certainly, the best-dressed person there, but falling into the trap of "more formal" = "better dressed" can be dangerous -- as dangerous as thinking "more expensive" = "more stylish."


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Although I agree with your observations, being the most formally dressed is not the same as being the best-dressed. Not saying you aren't, almost certainly, the best-dressed person there, but falling into the trap of "more formal" = "better dressed" can be dangerous -- as dangerous as thinking "more expensive" = "more stylish."


I never used the word "formal" - you are making a distinction that is not contextual, and unnecessary here.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Tiger said:


> I never used the word "formal" - you are making a distinction that is not contextual, and unnecessary here.


If your thinking is "I am in a collared shirt and long trousers, therefore I am better-dressed than anybody wearing a t-shirt and shorts," you leave out the possibility that you can look awful in a dress shirt and khaki trousers, and that it's not impossible to be well-dressed in a t-shirt and shorts.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> High on the my list of "things not to worry about" and of "things that are unimportant" is how other people dress when attending church.
> 
> Important is:
> 1. That they attend
> ...


There was a time when I might have agreed with you. However, having been in the ministry over 20 years I have seen the decline of what is appropriate church attire and what is not. I will be the first one to agree that certain type pf clothing should not keep people from coming to church, but it has gone too far. I believe a person should wear their best to church. If their best is a t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops than wear that. But, I think most of us would agree that is not the case. A lot of the very casual clothing I see people wear to church cost as much or more than dress clothes. IMHO it is more than just wearing a suit of clothes, it is an attitude...an attitude of worship. An attitude and an awareness that we are assembling to worship corporately the Most High God. I certainly am not wishing to turn this thread into a theological or political debate, but I am quite certain that most of the people who wear jeans, shorts, flip-flops or the like to church would not wear the same ensemble to meet the President of the United States at the White House. I believe we are meeting Someone much more important when we meet at God's House.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> If your thinking is "I am in a collared shirt and long trousers, therefore I am better-dressed than anybody wearing a t-shirt and shorts," you leave out the possibility that you can look awful in a dress shirt and khaki trousers, and that it's not impossible to be well-dressed in a t-shirt and shorts.


Is this what you really understood my remarks to be? Did I even approach such a thought? My guess is the vast majority of readers understood my point vis-a-vis the OP's initial comments, and subsequent ones.

The entire context of this thread was the cargo shorts/wildly decorated t-shirt/sweatpants/pajama-wearing tendencies of many people. My very clear point was that in such a sartorial universe, a basic pair of khakis and OCBD/polo makes one well-dressed in comparison.

The hairsplitting and obfuscation really is annoying. If you wish to make such puzzling distinctions, please do so without connecting them to me. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but this is not the first time you've chosen to utilize semantic gymnastics when commenting on one of my posts.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Tiger said:


> Is this what you really understood my remarks to be? Did I even approach such a thought? My guess is the vast majority of readers understood my point vis-a-vis the OP's initial comments, and subsequent ones.
> 
> The entire context of this thread was the cargo shorts/wildly decorated t-shirt/sweatpants/pajama-wearing tendencies of many people. My very clear point was that in such a sartorial universe, a basic pair of khakis and OCBD/polo makes one well-dressed in comparison.
> 
> The hairsplitting and obfuscation really is annoying. If you wish to make such puzzling distinctions, please do so without connecting them to me. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but this is not the first time you've chosen to utilize semantic gymnastics when commenting on one of my posts.


Well, first of all, I hope you don't think I have any particular problem with you -- I don't at all.

My intention wasn't to accuse you of thinking that way, but to point out a fallacy that your post reminded me of (although not one you were committing), which I fell afoul of when I had less experience. I felt that if I were to bring that up shortly after your post, without referring to it, it would look like I was passive-aggressively putting you down. I wouldn't want to do that.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Well, first of all, I hope you don't think I have any particular problem with you -- I don't at all. My intention wasn't to accuse you of thinking that way...


Thank you for your clarification!


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Tiger said:


> Thank you for your clarification!


No problem. Sorry for coming on too strong there.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Claybuster said:


> There was a time when I might have agreed with you. However, having been in the ministry over 20 years I have seen the decline of what is appropriate church attire and what is not. I will be the first one to agree that certain type pf clothing should not keep people from coming to church, but it has gone too far. I believe a person should wear their best to church. If their best is a t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops than wear that. But, I think most of us would agree that is not the case. A lot of the very casual clothing I see people wear to church cost as much or more than dress clothes. IMHO it is more than just wearing a suit of clothes, it is an attitude...an attitude of worship. An attitude and an awareness that we are assembling to worship corporately the Most High God. I certainly am not wishing to turn this thread into a theological or political debate, but I am quite certain that most of the people who wear jeans, shorts, flip-flops or the like to church would not wear the same ensemble to meet the President of the United States at the White House. I believe we are meeting Someone much more important when we meet at God's House.


I agree with this sentiment, which is particularly relevant for Catholics who believe in the Real Presence. I'm not a fan of our current President, but if invited to meet with him I would wear a coat and tie. God merits at least that much consideration.


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## Fiddlermatt (Jul 3, 2013)

Claybuster said:


> There was a time when I might have agreed with you. However, having been in the ministry over 20 years I have seen the decline of what is appropriate church attire and what is not. I will be the first one to agree that certain type pf clothing should not keep people from coming to church, but it has gone too far. I believe a person should wear their best to church. If their best is a t-shirt, shorts and flip-flops than wear that. But, I think most of us would agree that is not the case. A lot of the very casual clothing I see people wear to church cost as much or more than dress clothes. IMHO it is more than just wearing a suit of clothes, it is an attitude...an attitude of worship. An attitude and an awareness that we are assembling to worship corporately the Most High God. I certainly am not wishing to turn this thread into a theological or political debate, but I am quite certain that most of the people who wear jeans, shorts, flip-flops or the like to church would not wear the same ensemble to meet the President of the United States at the White House. I believe we are meeting Someone much more important when we meet at God's House.


To me it's a matter of respect. If one cannot show respect public worship by dressing modestly and the best they are able, how can one respect the private matter's of his religious life? If someone can't be troubled to put on decent apparel on Sunday morning I find it hard to believe they'll give Bible study, prayer, or theology any more respect.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Mike Petrik said:


> I agree with this sentiment, which is particularly relevant for Catholics who believe in the Real Presence. I'm not a fan of our current President, but if invited to meet with him I would wear a coat and tie. God merits at least that much consideration.


It's true. I am temperamentally inclined toward a panentheistic Divine Immanence (in that all things are God) but nevertheless where there's a tabernacle the Presence is concentrated.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

While I'm not going to fight the formality of what one wears to church, synagogue, etc., the least one can do is to be covered, conservative, and clean (this includes pressed and polished).


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

The Franciscan in me finds me reacting strongly to all this "respect by wearing best clothes to church" talk. I'm sorry to be blunt but that is a load of nonsense!


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> The Franciscan in me finds me reacting strongly to all this "respect by wearing best clothes to church" talk. I'm sorry to be blunt but that is a load of nonsense!


Why is it sensible to advocate the wearing of appropriate attire to a job interview, important business meeting, wedding, etc, but it is nonsense to advocate the wearing of appropriate attire to church? With all due respect, that my friend, makes no sense to me. Frankly, I am tired of seeing clothing one would see in a nightclub or on the beach during worship services. All I am asking for is a little modesty and respect for the Church. How is that nonsense?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Shaver said:


> Not since I was about 11 years old.


What do you wear nowadays?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Don't women dress like children too?


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

Claybuster said:


> Why is it sensible to advocate the wearing of appropriate attire to a job interview, important business meeting, wedding, etc, but it is nonsense to advocate the wearing of appropriate attire to church?


I agree completely. Years ago, I would wear suits and admittedly have loosened up since then. But shorts, t-shirts, sandals and the like are not appropriately respectful, IMO.

It is about paying respect to and celebrating God and God's people.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

TSWalker said:


> I bought a very nice high-end tie to wear to my brother-in-law's wedding this fall; it incorporates their wedding colors without being too gaudy. Sadly, I will not be wearing it as I accepted his offer to be a groomsman - I will instead be wearing the exact same MW rental as his best man. With Converse. The bridesmaids are wearing flip-flops, I believe.
> 
> The question may have been rhetorical but YES, I do realize.


Did you protest or say anything when told to wear this aweful uniform?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Howard said:


> What do you wear nowadays?


Proper shoes, Howard. Leather and goodyear welt, mostly. Espadrilles occasionally, these are a much more stylish alternative for situations where sneakers would be functionally appropriate.


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## jebarne (Jul 26, 2012)

wdrazek said:


> I agree completely. Years ago, I would wear suits and admittedly have loosened up since then. But shorts, t-shirts, sandals and the like are not appropriately respectful, IMO.
> 
> It is about paying respect to and celebrating God and God's people.


Having been around the world, in very poor areas, I have found it interesting to see poor people in South America walking to church wearing their one dress shirt, and a tie if they have one. To me, its not asking for finery but clean, modest clothes. Here, where we have so much more, we've gotten very casual about it.

On the occasions where I've been invited to an event hosted in a synagogue or a temple, a cathedral or even a muslim wedding, I suit up. Not because I am a believer, but because I respect their traditions and the things they think are important.

If I treat their religiosity with that respect, how could I treat mine any less. Dressing properly doesn't mean wearing expensive clothes to show off. That's not the point. In another time, we might have been asked to wear specific attire to participate in religious ceremonies. Today, for me and my son at least, its still a jacket and tie.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Okay, I'm going to tackle this point by point to clarify where I stand


1. A person's attitude or approach to their faith CANNOT be read from their attire either in church or out of church. And to suggest anything else is ridiculous. Otherwise plenty of poor and homeless God fearing people with not so many possessions would be dismissed as heretics, and then we're back to a pre-Reformation attitude where wealth, property and power made you a better Christian, able to purchase indulgences from your Priest or Bishop.

2. Obviously I am not objecting to the criticism in this thread that is justifiably aimed at people who do have jobs, homes and clothes who attend church shirtless, shoeless and in swimsuits. That type of attire should only be seen by the pool or on the beach. That said I have NEVER EVER seen anyone dressed like that in a Catholic or Orthodox church in Europe. Maybe it is more common and more of a problem in the US.

3. What I am objecting to in this thread however is the notion that a person should wear their very best clothes to church as a mark of respect. Nonsense! I respect God EVERY DAY through prayer and my words and actions. NOT by dressing up on a Sunday morning to attend church. Church is not a fashion parade, what you look like is irrelevant, you don't need to show respect to other worshippers via your attire, other than being dressed in clothes that are clean. Respect for God from your person should be internal and for the rest of society only external in the form of your words and actions not your clothes. Otherwise many Francisans and Carmelites and missionaires are in trouble!

4. AFAIC the Sunday morning Christian man who turns up at Church in a £1000 suit and accessories to match is behaving as badly at the woman who turns up as if dressed for a nightclub, in that both of them are being excessively vain and proud. 


5.Okay, now on to the elephant in the room - in my experience from London, the best dressed worshippers were always the West Indians and Africans attending Baptist, Evangelist and Episcopalian churches. Bright suits, hats on women, the whole nine yards on everyone from babies to pensioners. NOW in Catholic and Orthodox churches in England, Ireland, Sweden, Georgia people often attend Church several times a week and often in their everyday clothes. Effort is made for Sunday of course but not to the extent that Protestants make,in my experience because the Sunday mass for many Catholics is one of many during the week. 

6.(The US might be different but...) In my experience Catholic and Orthodox services are a fantastic heterogeneous mix of all walks of life: classes, nationalities, regulars, tourists, workers. BUT whenever I have been to a Protestant service, for example in Sweden, it has always been a certain middle class grouping of that Parish, very homogenous i.e. very white, very Swedish, very local - And that is also true of the Baptist and Evangelical churches I lived near in London, 99% black worshippers and predominantly working class.


I would love to discuss the aspect of No. 6 further. There is clearly a different approach from church to church, which is isn't grounded in scripture, but in the dogma of any given church.


Granted, for example, the top Catholic churches in London, Brompton Oratory and Westminster Cathedral in wealthy areas attract some very wealthy and very well dressed locals.....but I've also been to Catholic churches in the west of Ireland and in Liverpool and in Orthodox churches in Georgia and I can tell you there isn't much wealth on display there. 


Fascinating subject actually. All I'm asking is that y'all (that's American ) don't apply the same dogmatic sensibilities to everyone and to all religions.


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

When this thread turned to the topic of church clothing this was the first thing that came to mind:

_For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:_
_Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?_

And this was the second:

_Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?_
_Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?_
_Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?_
_And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:_
_And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these._
_Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?_
_Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?_

And that is all that Rev. Walker will say on this particular topic, except to say that I am glad to see that it matters, just be careful.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

TSWalker said:


> When this thread turned to the topic of church clothing this was the first thing that came to mind:
> 
> _For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:_
> _Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?_
> ...


I have always considered that the text from the Gospel of James is intended to illustrate that a man's profession or social standing should not be considered indicative of the strength of their faith. 'What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works?'

The passage from Matthew is inspirational in its encouragement to trust in Providence. Just prior to the text you quoted is the finest piece of poetry in the entire New Testament - 'Our Father........' :icon_smile:


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## Fiddlermatt (Jul 3, 2013)

Maybe the question should be rephrased thusly. Suppose a person had both a decent suit and some casual clothing (tank top, shorts, and flip-flops.) Would it be disrespectful for that person to wear the casual outfit to church?
I understand about people being poor. The first suit I ever owned was a 100% polyester I bought at a yard sale for $1 (around age 11.) I wore it with a too large short sleeve dress shirt handed down from my brother, and black work boots (only black shoes I had.) However atrocious the outfit was my shirt was always ironed and my shoes shined. 
Obviously, people who are less fortunate should not be judged because they don't have beautiful, well-tailored clothing. What I am absolutely apposed to, however, is people of means dressing immodestly or too casually. I believe that does belie a lack of respect.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Whether people agree with me or not regarding my stance on appropriate attire in church is irrelevant. But, to say a certain stance is "nonsense" or "ridiculous" is very condescending.


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## Pale_Male (May 20, 2013)

Claybuster said:


> Whether people agree with me or not regarding my stance on appropriate attire in church is irrelevant. But, to say a certain stance is "nonsense" or "ridiculous" is very condescending.


There's certainly little sense of "appropriate attire". What's appropriate on the beach or at the gym isn't appropriate in church, at the theatre, or at a decent restaurant.

Amazing that the farmer and the miner managed to have "Sunday Clothes" not so long ago. Clothes have never been cheaper. And the poor have never been richer. Relatively, of course.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Perhaps Earl believes that in his environs casual dress is a sign of the simplicity of St. Francis. In the US however, that is unlikely. Instead, it is simply a sign of indifference. Many people dress like they are going to a ball game. They mean no disrespect -- they mean nothing at all. It is pure thoughtlessness. That said, when the issue comes up the most frequent refrain is something like "God is just happy I'm there." That revealing response is worth pondering, I think.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

Some positive news. I went to see The Book of Morman last night in Cleveland. I thought the vast majority of men were well turned out. Quite a few ties and bow ties. A very healthy number in a decent blazer or sports coat. Those not in a coat were wearing decent shirts or polos. Many in pink - which was good to see. Only saw one kiddult. Sat there in his cargo shorts, sports team t shirt and baseball cap. He looked uncomortable, out of place and he knew it.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Shaver said:


> Proper shoes, Howard. Leather and goodyear welt, mostly. Espadrilles occasionally, these are a much more stylish alternative for situations where sneakers would be functionally appropriate.


Exactly, you do business and you want to show respect to others, sneakers would be inappropriate.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Mike Petrik said:


> Instead, it is simply a sign of indifference. Many people dress like they are going to a ball game. They mean no disrespect -- they mean nothing at all. It is pure thoughtlessness. That said, when the issue comes up the most frequent refrain is something like "God is just happy I'm there." That revealing response is worth pondering, I think.


I agree.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

roman totale XVII said:


> Some positive news. I went to see The Book of Morman last night in Cleveland. I thought the vast majority of men were well turned out. Quite a few ties and bow ties. A very healthy number in a decent blazer or sports coat. Those not in a coat were wearing decent shirts or polos. Many in pink - which was good to see. Only saw one kiddult. Sat there in his cargo shorts, sports team t shirt and baseball cap. He looked uncomortable, out of place and he knew it.


Positive news, indeed. I love the "kiddult". I never heard of it until now. Bravo!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Maybe some people want to dress like children, could be that it's something that they cannot get away from doing. Like a habit or a ritual.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Tar and feather me; burn me at the stake if you must, but the A/C in our church failed this AM and as I sat there sweltering in my suit and tie, I must admit feeling a not insignificant degree of envy, noting the fellow a few rows ahead of us wearing a printed Tee and rather smart looking walking shorts and appearing comfortable despite the heat!


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

triklops55 said:


> Did you protest or say anything when told to wear this awful uniform?


Gently, yes. He was at my wedding, which his mother (my mother-in-law) helped organize. He knows right from wrong and is choosing wrong. Methinks the bride is the one favoring comfort over timelessness... and I already know from chatting with him about their honeymoon plans that what she wants, she gets.

Chuck Taylors here I come.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> Tar and feather me; burn me at the stake if you must, but the A/C in our church failed this AM and as I sat there sweltering in my suit and tie, I must admit feeling a not insignificant degree of envy, noting the fellow a few rows ahead of us wearing a printed Tee and rather smart looking walking shorts and appearing comfortable despite the heat!


:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: Love it. Our A/C isn't working properly at church either, so this morning as I walked to the pulpit to preach, I ditched the jacket and tonight I wore silk trousers and a checkered sport shirt to preach in.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Howard said:


> Don't women dress like children too?


At work a woman in her early 50s told a woman in her early 30s that she dresses like her teenage niece. It was just a friendly comment, not meant as an insult or telling her to dress more maturely. I've noticed that she wears some of her jeans looser in the thigh than most women, but other than that I'm not nearly as critical of women's clothing as mens.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

TSWalker said:


> Gently, yes. He was at my wedding, which his mother (my mother-in-law) helped organize.
> 
> Chuck Taylors here I come.


Keeping the peace in the family does come with some sacrifices, I suppose:redface:


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> Tar and feather me; burn me at the stake if you must, but the A/C in our church failed this AM and as I sat there sweltering in my suit and tie, I must admit feeling a not insignificant degree of envy, noting the fellow a few rows ahead of us wearing a printed Tee and rather smart looking walking shorts and appearing comfortable despite the heat!


Eagle, I'm fully ready to give someone a pass from coat and tie, if the heat or milieu dictates: I wouldn't expect a stroller at an outdoor August Florida service, play or concert. But to repeat myself, covered, conservative, and clean are the watchwords. The ballcap (worn indoors and/or backwards) and the really awesome band tour tee can stay at home for _*once *_


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

I think it's gotten to the point that dressing like a pre-teen would be an upgrade for the average person. :teacha:


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

Mike Petrik said:


> ...Many people dress like they are going to a ball game. They mean no disrespect -- they mean nothing at all. It is pure thoughtlessness. That said, when the issue comes up the most frequent refrain is something like "God is just happy I'm there." That revealing response is worth pondering, I think.


I agree. That "God is happy I'm there" does say a lot. Coming back to my original point, in any Christian religion (sorry, I don't know other faith's take on this), the assembled are in the presence of the divine, and are assembled together as a body for the purpose of worship.

In that case, wearing an Iron Maiden t-shirt, whatever jeans are not in the laundry and a pair of Chuck Taylor's just does not capture the respect that ought to be accorded. Unless that is pretty much what you have to wear.

For a well dressed man, putting on rags is inappropriate in this context. It is a simple matter of respect.


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

Shaver said:


> I have always considered that the text from the Gospel of James is intended to illustrate that a man's profession or social standing should not be considered indicative of the strength of their faith.:icon_smile:


I concur. If one has fine garments they are no more worthy than one with coarse wears.

Yet, those with fine garments ought not wear their dregs or whatever is handiest when meeting with the People of God and the Author of all things.

Go to work and you suit up. Go to a very special and sacred event and put on whatever... there is a disconnect.

What is most important, then?


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Shaver said:


> I have not married but I believe that one day I shall. When I stand in front of my bride, family and friends and whilst making my solemn promises before them and the Lord, this is probably the least likely possible time and place that I will feel compelled to remind everybody what a zany so-and-so I am. I honestly just don't get it. :icon_scratch:
> 
> .
> .
> ...


Shall you disclose this Lord's surname, dear Shaver? :icon_smile:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Brio1 said:


> Shall you disclose this Lord's surname, dear Shaver? :icon_smile:


'Lord' is quite deliberately employed in surrogate of the Tetragrammaton. :icon_saint7kg:


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## Fatman (May 7, 2013)

When I was a little boy, a lot of men going to a ball game wore suits. I recall my uncle, who brought us to Shea Stadium, looked nice and had us put on "Sunday clothes."
No one cursed at each other, and we said "excuse me" when getting up. If a trouble maker showed himself, he was escorted out, and the disapproving looks on the part of adults taught me that the man's behavior was wrong. ("Wrong"; not a "poor choice" but "wrong.")
We had such respect for one another!

I recall so much more politeness in the stands. 

I went to a Boston Redsox game in April in which one of the women in our party was in her 70's and actually tapped the young man and young woman sitting in front of us and asked them "please stop, as there are children here"...

they were engaged in heavy kissing, sitting on his lap, obstructing view, drinking and cursing. Their appearance matched their behavior and demeanor. 

I believe that our culture's dress is a fair and accurate description of our culture. 

In religious worship services, our slovenly appearance meets, in my estimation, the slovenly view of Divinity. 


This has been a great post. This and other threads are good examples of why this forum is so popular. Men here care.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Fatman said:


> When I was a little boy, a lot of men going to a ball game wore suits. I recall my uncle, who brought us to Shea Stadium, looked nice and had us put on "Sunday clothes."
> No one cursed at each other, and we said "excuse me" when getting up. If a trouble maker showed himself, he was escorted out, and the disapproving looks on the part of adults taught me that the man's behavior was wrong. ("Wrong"; not a "poor choice" but "wrong.")
> We had such respect for one another!
> 
> ...


Agreed on all counts.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> Tar and feather me; burn me at the stake if you must, but the A/C in our church failed this AM and as I sat there sweltering in my suit and tie, I must admit feeling a not insignificant degree of envy, noting the fellow a few rows ahead of us wearing a printed Tee and rather smart looking walking shorts and appearing comfortable despite the heat!


So you wound up sweating?


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

I often end up sweating in church, but not because of the weather.

Thanks folks, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I often end up sweating in church, but not because of the weather.
> 
> Thanks folks, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.


:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I'm opposed to the whole respect for God via attire view that all of you share, and far too far away from most of you in my spiriutal and scritptural views and beliefs, so further discussion from my side is pointless.


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## AMProfessor (Sep 9, 2011)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I'm opposed to the whole respect for God via attire view that all of you share, and far too far away from most of you in my spiriutal and scritptural views and beliefs, so further discussion from my side is pointless.


I get your point on that. Maybe its more about the symbolism of making some effort, however small, to show a respect for the sacredness of the space.
When I camp with my boy scout troop we'll have a brief "scout is reverent" ceremony on sunday morning. Our "sanctuary" is nothing but some logs and maybe a stump in the center. And we look like hell in our muddy clothes. But when we pray we remove our hats. Why? No real theological reason that I can think of; the God I worship probably doesn't care that I'm wearing a stocking cap. But we do it as a symbolic sign of respect. So when I go back to my regular church and attend the informal early worship service, and I see the folks in flip flops and t-shirts, I don't think they're any less close to God, but what does go through my head is wondering why they can't be bothered to take some small act to show that this worship space is different from the beach or anywhere else.


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I'm opposed to the whole respect for God via attire view that all of you share, and far too far away from most of you in my spiriutal and scritptural views and beliefs, so further discussion from my side is pointless.


Watch that "all", my friend. I will not be participating any further in the religious part of this discussion for highly personal reasons, but I do see your point and thank you for sharing it. It is a complicated and nuanced subject.

I will say this, though: there are many people in the United States for whom dressing up to show self-respect and respect of occasion or location is as unfamiliar as proper ettiquette before the Queen of England. My coworkers marvel at my business casual attire as if I had come to work in a topcoat and tails. I have interviewed job applicants that looked as if they came straight from the gym. One of my wife's friends joined us for dinner at a sushi restaurant wearing a McDonalds T-shirt and thought nothing of it. Knowing how these things bother me, it does not surprise me that some would see "inappropriate" attire in church as a greater offense.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

TSWalker said:


> Watch that "all", my friend.


Sorry. I had intended to write "most of you" but found no voice in the thread that shared my belief i.e. respect for God is respect for God, worldly items don't come into it.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I dress up for synagogue on Saturday for three reasons:
1. To remind myself that I'm not simply 'going out'...i.e. to put myself in the right frame of mind
2. To signal to my children the importance of the event. They might spend the morning playing, but I don't want them to think I'm taking them to a playground. This is different. The day is different. Thus, I am consciously presenting myself and my conduct as an example
3. To signal to others there that I am taking it all seriously. This is less important to me than 1 and 2, but I would be a liar if I denied a social element. 

To be clear: Finery has nothing to do with it and may well be in poor taste. Immodesty can take many forms, all negative. For me, it is about formality. Casual is inappropriate, just as I think it is inappropriate to take a religious ritual casually. I want to keep myself from being casual about ritual, and one way to prevent that is by not being casual with regard to how I dress for it. Obviously, from a theological point of view, it matters not one bit what one wears. God is not impressed by the fact that my blazer is fully canvassed, or that my shoes are goodyear welted. But it matters to me that I stand before God dressed at the very least like I might dress for a job interview or to brief some senior Government official.


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## midnight2six (May 28, 2013)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Sorry. I had intended to write "most of you" but found no voice in the thread that shared my belief i.e. respect for God is respect for God, worldly items don't come into it.


I was going to just avoid posting to this thread as it completely changed tack. However your last post compelled me to add my tuppence ha'penny's worth. Without doubt the most spiritual Religious experiences I've ever had, were Drumhead Services. A Padre, a field, a pile of drums with an alter cloth on them. A Battalion of tired, dirty, smelly, bloodstained Men, wearing unwashed and muddy combat clothing. All thanking God for our salvation. It is the worship that counts ...

However as this thread is about clothes and not worship, I agree there should be a moral compass that would prevent adults wearing inappropriate clothing for special occasions. What people deem to be a special occasion well, that's obviously debatable but I'd like to think we wouldn't need a list of genuine 'Special Occasions' worthy of polishing a shoe or wearing a suit and tie for.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> Yup. It is this inwash of kiddywear that we stand against, unbowed and unbloodied, providing a beacon of taste to a fumbling world. But there is hope. More and more in the media we find articles of the Millenials and their chorts turning away from the Tattered Chic of the Sixtie's Kids. Be strong. We will yet prevail.


Vive la resistance?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## ramizlol (Jan 16, 2013)

When its winter, 90% of the people in my HS and college will wear sweatpants and hoodie, girls wear yoga pants too. Sneaker... Those are every where! They look like the shoes I used to wear back in elementary school! When we have to dress up for something, I just wannna rip my eyes out! Those horrible suits, baggy pants, and boxy cut shirts. When I dress up I usually get all the attention, I wear my best fitting suit and shirt. Hehe I guess its better, less competition


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## AMProfessor (Sep 9, 2011)

Well hey now, lets not toss out everything here. I must say I do like the yoga pants on the ladies. There is an area where I'm more than willing to compromise on satorial standards, for, um, other reasons [edit: but not in church of course]


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

AMProfessor said:


> Well hey now, lets not toss out everything here. I must say I do like the yoga pants on the ladies. There is an area where I'm more than willing to compromise on satorial standards, for, um, other reasons [edit: but not in church of course]


Yoginis are suing Lululemon over see- through pants: https://money.cnn.com/2013/07/03/news/companies/lululemon-yoga-lawsuit/index.html


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## ramizlol (Jan 16, 2013)

AMProfessor said:


> Well hey now, lets not toss out everything here. I must say I do like the yoga pants on the ladies. There is an area where I'm more than willing to compromise on satorial standards, for, um, other reasons [edit: but not in church of course]


Hahaha. Yoga pants on some girls look good! I still believe that there are other option that look better than yoga pants! Leggings looking a lot better and more "fashionable". Yoga pants in my church is normal thing ;/


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

ALL of the Word in Matthew 6 is worth reading, but especially 27-34.

(from the RSVCE 1966, which is the Bible I have at home) Matthew 6:25 - "Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? 26[SUP] [/SUP]Look at the birds of the air; they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27[SUP] [/SUP]And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit to his span of life? 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they neither toil nor spin; 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30[SUP] [/SUP]But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O men of little faith? 31[SUP] [/SUP]Therefore do not be anxious, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32[SUP] [/SUP]For the Gentiles seek all these things; and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33[SUP] [/SUP]But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well. 34[SUP] [/SUP]Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Let the day's own trouble be sufficient for the day."

So said the Lord.

Now, as Christians, you either follow the Word of Jesus or you don't. It's up to you.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

This has been a very interesting thread. Let's try not to stray too far into theology. So far so good, but we need to be careful.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Why not? We have several people on this thread claiming that one's best clothing is required in church to show respect for God, which is in direct contravention of the Gospel. I was not the one who brought up the church attire aspect in the first place.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I often end up sweating in church, but not because of the weather.
> 
> Thanks folks, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.


Ha. I know that feeling. My confessions sometimes require three priests....


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## AMProfessor (Sep 9, 2011)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Why not? We have several people on this thread claiming that one's best clothing is required in church to show respect for God, .


That is simply not true. People in this thread are not making that assertion. What some people are saying is that it is nice to show a modicum of respect in a place of worship. That is all.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

AMProfessor said:


> That is simply not true. People in this thread are not making that assertion. What some people are saying is that it is nice to show a modicum of respect in a place of worship. That is all.


Agree completely with AMProfessor. In addition, the verses quoted by Earl of Ormonde ultimately emphasize the need to make God paramount in all things. The passage is not a sartorial guideline.

As others have said/intimated, clothing makes a statement about who we are and what we think (whether we wish to convey that or not), and if we attempt to dress better for job interviews, weddings, parties, et al., then looking presentable for worship seems highly appropriate. No one should scold the poor man for attending service in tattered clothes; it's the guy who wears $250 jeans for a Super Bowl party who shows up for service in shorts and flip flops that we find irksome...


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm just urging everyone to proceed with caution, for the good of the forum. So far no single post has crossed any lines. Proceed. Carefully.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Personally, I have nothing else to contribute to this particular thread. It has been a good one, but for me, it is time to move on:smile:


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

With all do respect, I don't understand why some members always feel the need to raise the issue of their particular exegesis of so called "Christian theology" with reference to sartorial comportment here. I find this strong "Christian" bias somewhat exclusionary of members with different beliefs such as Jews. That being stated, how fantastically arrogant to claim to know the mind of a deity with regards to sartorial comportment and, furthermore, it is by our actions that we live in the world and therefore I "judge" one by their deeds and not their creeds.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Brio1 said:


> With all do respect, I don't understand why some members always feel the need to raise the issue of their particular exegesis of so called "Christian theology" with reference to sartorial comportment here. I find this strong "Christian" bias somewhat exclusionary of members with different beliefs such as Jews. That being stated, how fantastically arrogant to claim to know the mind of a deity with regards to sartorial comportment and, furthermore, it is by our actions that we live in the world and therefore I "judge" one by their deeds and not their creeds.


Isn't it because some members go to church on Sundays and they feel its an occasion where people should/used to dress up?

That's a sartorial question. I'm more than happy to leave any and all deities out of it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

+1. It has nothing to do with anything sectarian. If I go to a Buddhist/Methodist/Jewish funeral/wedding/service I will dress to show what I feel is respect. And that will be different from meeting the guys at a sports bar during the game. It has nothing to do with theology or Christianity. I'd wear the same clothes to the "Celebration of life" of an atheist or agnostic. And I would feel the same way about t-shirts and short shorts there as I would at a high mass. To say that I "judge by deeds instead of creeds" puts me into making judgments I may not have the information to make. Bob the Baptist may have regularly beaten his wife while Mohammed the Muslim may have been a perfect gentleman by anyone's standards. I wouldn't wear a different suit or jacket depending on what I knew about someone. I keep the deities well out of it--I just dress to show respect. And so far, showing respect has not involved a small envelope with cash, but then I live in North Caroline.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

^

I'm afraid that you missed the nuance in reference to my comments regarding interpretation of scripture/ The Gospel within the Christian religion. However, I agree for the most part with your thoughts upon respect. I did, of course, wear a suit to a Christmas service at the National Cathedral a few years ago. I attended A Vesak service at a Buddhist temple a month ago, but I did not wear a suit as that would have been perceived as ostentatious and therefore disrespectful. The lay community were asked to wear simple clothing in the color of white. Consider the humble robe of a Buddhist monastic. And when in Rome do as the Romans do.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Brio1 said:


> ^
> 
> I'm afraid that you missed the nuance in reference to my comments regarding interpretation of scripture/ The Gospel within the Christian religion. However, I agree for the most part with your thoughts upon respect. I did, of course, wear a suit to a Christmas service at the National Cathedral a few years ago. I attended A Vesak service at a Buddhist temple a month ago, but I did not wear a suit as that would have been perceived as ostentatious and therefore disrespectful. The lay community were asked to wear simple clothing in the color of white. Consider the humble robe of a Buddhist monastic. And when in Rome do as the Romans do.


Is there any possibility that you might express this nuance in a more simplistic manner to ensure that it does not continue to elude certain members, myself included? :icon_smile_wink:


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

guess you fellas will have to crucify me then for dressing like a child. My summer attire usually consists of cargo shorts, button up short sleeve shirt & tennis shoes. I believe in dressing for the occasion and for me dressing casual is pretty routine, especially when it's in the 90's and humid. There's no way in hell I'm sacrificing comfort for style, unless I'm at church, a nice restaurant or some fancy social gathering


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

gaseousclay said:


> There's no way in hell I'm sacrificing comfort for style......


And that is exactly what has been happening over the years, comfort over everything else


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

gaseousclay said:


> guess you fellas will have to crucify me then for dressing like a child. My summer attire usually consists of cargo shorts, button up short sleeve shirt & tennis shoes. I believe in dressing for the occasion and for me dressing casual is pretty routine, especially when it's in the 90's and humid. There's no way in hell I'm sacrificing comfort for style, unless I'm at church, a nice restaurant or some fancy social gathering


No crucifixation in the works, but don't expect applause from these quarters. Furthermore, I've never associated dressing well with discomfort. In my experience discomfort involves poor sizing or fabrics inappropriate for the environment. Shorts and tennis shoes are perfect -- for tennis. I would not recommend cargo shorts to any adult. If an adult male must wear shorts, there are many comfortable non-cargo cotton offerings, including attractive options in seersucker and madras, that are better than cargo.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

gaseousclay said:


> guess you fellas will have to crucify me then for dressing like a child. My summer attire usually consists of cargo shorts, button up short sleeve shirt & tennis shoes. I believe in dressing for the occasion and for me dressing casual is pretty routine, especially when it's in the 90's and humid. There's no way in hell I'm sacrificing comfort for style, unless I'm at church, a nice restaurant or some fancy social gathering


There are tons of things you can wear and still look stylish. How about Madras, chino or seersucker shorts instead of Cargo? How about linen pants and shirts? How about a good pair of boat shoes or leather sandals instead of sneakers?

The options are limitless. And you never know who your going to run into anywhere, so it's best to always try to look your best, IMO.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

triklops55 said:


> There are tons of things you can wear and still look stylish. How about Madras, chino or seersucker shorts instead of Cargo? How about linen pants and shirts? How about a good pair of boat shoes or leather sandals instead of sneakers?
> 
> The options are limitless. And you never know who your going to run into anywhere, so it's best to always try to look your best, IMO.


Be that as it may, dressing up on a day like today is pointless. I'm at home watching my 3.5 month old baby- I've taken him out in the stroller twice with the dog in tow. Went a few blocks around the neighborhood and came home. Didn't run into a single person who would've gave two sh*ts if I was dressed up or not


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

gaseousclay said:


> Be that as it may, dressing up on a day like today is pointless. I'm at home watching my 3.5 month old baby- I've taken him out in the stroller twice with the dog in tow. Went a few blocks around the neighborhood and came home. Didn't run into a single person who would've gave two sh*ts if I was dressed up or not


I don't think we're talking about a single day here, but what for many has become a lifestyle. The clothes you described earlier aren't really any more comfortable than the alternatives suggested by triklops55, and looking good isn't always about impressing an audience. Most of us here dress (even at home) based on our own personal standards, not those of the general public. One shouldn't need an audience to make an effort.

Just my 2 cents


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

gaseousclay said:


> guess you fellas will have to crucify me then for dressing like a child. My summer attire usually consists of cargo shorts, button up short sleeve shirt & tennis shoes. I believe in dressing for the occasion and for me dressing casual is pretty routine, especially when it's in the 90's and humid. There's no way in hell I'm sacrificing comfort for style, unless I'm at church, a nice restaurant or some fancy social gathering


Hey it's what you feel as comfortable as possible, In the heat no one cares how you look just as long as you feel good about yourself.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

Grayson said:


> Most of us here dress (even at home) based on our own personal standards, not those of the general public. One shouldn't need an audience to make an effort.
> 
> Just my 2 cents


But when someone here dresses in a slovenly manner are they not being judged by _your_ standards? I have no problem with people dressing down when the occasion dictates, but for some of you that occasion is never


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

Are cargo shorts really the devil's spawn?


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

gaseousclay said:


> But when someone here dresses in a slovenly manner are they not being judged by _your_ standards? I have no problem with people dressing down when the occasion dictates, but for some of you that occasion is never


I find "slovenly" to be an interesting - and potentially telling - word choice. Whose standards?


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

It is certainly possible to attire oneself in a tee shirt and shorts with sneakers and entirely avoid "slovenly."

Some occasions call for tee shirt and shorts (a cookout with games of horseshoes and volleyball is a good example). Wearing linen or madras slacks and an OCBD to such a function would be absurd, unless one wishes to avoid the active amusements entirely. A summer pickup game of softball is another good example.

I agree with the overall premise that people increasingly choose to dress sloppily, though. It's largely a matter of discipline IMO (or rather, a lack thereof).


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

wdrazek said:


> Are cargo shorts really the devil's spawn?


*Tries to hide his few pairs of cargo shorts*


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Wow I never knew pink pants still existed.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Today I wore a t-shirt, jeans, and Converse sneakers. I await your curses and judgemental criticisms.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Brio1 said:


> Consider the humble robe of a Buddhist monastic.


There are some Buddhist monks who live somewhere near me. I often see them taking their constitutional when I am out with my dog in the evening. Although not a Buddhist, I smile and bow respectfully to them as men in service of the Infinite. However, their robes are anything but "humble." They seem like a very flamboyant lot in red and gold robes.


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

Jovan said:


> Today I wore a t-shirt, jeans, and Converse sneakers. I await your curses and judgemental criticisms.


So did you get the job?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Yep. My new job is promoting Star Trek. Because, ya know, they should be paying _me_ to advertise something I _like_.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Jovan said:


> Today I wore a t-shirt, jeans, and Converse sneakers. I await your curses and judgemental criticisms.


Personally, I would've gone with Saucony for the shoes. But that's all a matter of the last ...

:icon_smile_wink: Hope you had a fun, active Sunday.


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## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

When I'm not at work, I'm 90% of the time wearing gym clothes. I love sports and I care enough about my body to lift weights 4 times a week. Wearing gym clothes away from the office also prolongs the life of my "good" clothes.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

MaxBuck said:


> Personally, I would've gone with Saucony for the shoes. But that's all a matter of the last ...
> 
> :icon_smile_wink: Hope you had a fun, active Sunday.


Hey now, I have some standards, even when I'm in pejoratively-named "streetwear"! I only wear New Balance when I'm hiking the mountains here.

It was fun. A trip to the zoo. A long sleeved, collared shirt would have eliminated the need for sunscreen on my arms, but I frankly didn't care to wear something like that and chinos to a place full of barely supervised children and other dangers to decent clothing.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

To me, nothing says "I have a hangover" like rumpled chinos, untied running shoes, and an old t-shirt. Best accessorized with a bagel breakfast sandwich, gatorade, and sunglasses inside. I try to avoid this look, but, of course, we've all been there.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

TradThrifter said:


> When I'm not at work, I'm 90% of the time wearing gym clothes. I love sports and I care enough about my body to lift weights 4 times a week. Wearing gym clothes away from the office also prolongs the life of my "good" clothes.


Because you never know when you'll run into a barbell that needs lifting.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Jokes aside, I'd at least wear a t-shirt and jeans. Workout wear may be a little more comfortable, but I can't see any way that it is more practical for most of the things one does. For one thing, carrying wallets and keys. Those pockets, if indeed one's gym shorts or pants even have them half the time, don't seem very secure.

Personally though, I just hate wearing gym attire outside the gym. It feels wrong. As my girlfriend puts it, it's like wearing a bikini if you're not going swimming.


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## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

triklops55 said:


> Because you never know when you'll run into a barbell that needs lifting.


LOL Touche



Jovan said:


> Jokes aside, I'd at least wear a t-shirt and jeans. Workout wear may be a little more comfortable, but I can't see any way that it is more practical for most of the things one does. For one thing, carrying wallets and keys. Those pockets, if indeed one's gym shorts or pants even have them half the time, don't seem very secure.
> 
> Personally though, I just hate wearing gym attire outside the gym. It feels wrong. As my girlfriend puts it, it's like wearing a bikini if you're not going swimming.


I've run into the pockets issue before. I also can't stand those flimsy things and so now I have aquired board shorts with velcro pockets for the summer. Jeans are definetly my go-to for when it cools off.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Jovan said:


> ... it's like wearing a bikini if you're not going swimming.


I'm struggling to find a reason to criticize this habit.


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## DJH_of_Doom (Apr 3, 2013)

triklops55 said:


> This thread brings to mind those goofy adults who thinkt that they can get away with wearing Converse All-Star sneakers with suits and tuxes.


This happened at a recent family wedding. If anybody pulls this stunt at my wedding in October, I will be excluding them from the photographs.

If you are going to wear a suit, wear it properly or not at all.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Jovan said:


> Today I wore a t-shirt, jeans, and Converse sneakers. I await your curses and judgemental criticisms.


were they clean sneakers?


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

DJH_of_Doom said:


> This happened at a recent family wedding. If anybody pulls this stunt at my wedding in October, I will be excluding them from the photographs.
> 
> If you are going to wear a suit, wear it properly or not at all.


What, you don't want your friends and relatives to "express themselves" as "individuals" and show everyone at your wedding how "hip" they are?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

MaxBuck said:


> I'm struggling to find a reason to criticize this habit.


Ah, good then. I'll make sure to break out the Speedo next time we go for drinks.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Jovan said:


> Ah, good then. I'll make sure to break out the Speedo next time we go for drinks.


I believe you have intentionally misinterpreted my commentary.

My sartorial desires for the fairer sex have an entirely different (evolutionary) basis than those for my fellow males.

So keep that Speedo under lock and key, thx.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

A couple of weeks back our church hosted a casual dress Sunday. I was not overly impressed with the concept, but most of the congregation seemed to enjoy the moment. In all honesty and in spite of the casual attire, the sermon was still inspirational, the wife and I were able to spend some spiritually thoughtful moments with our 'Maker' and I was absolutely blown away by the popularity of New Balance gym shoes...it appeared that perhaps better than half the congregation was sporting such footwear! As long as we limit such to the occasional Sunday, I guess it's not really all that bad!


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## DJH_of_Doom (Apr 3, 2013)

Tilton said:


> What, you don't want your friends and relatives to "express themselves" as "individuals" and show everyone at your wedding how "hip" they are?


They can certainly do all of the above with the right suit and shoes. Well, maybe not the "hip" part. A wedding is actually a great way of teaching people who dress like slobs that they can actually look very good with a bit of effort.


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## Barcelona (Aug 13, 2009)

Shaver said:


> Oldsarge, my friend, PM me your address and shoe size and I will post you a pair of decent exercise shoes.
> 
> Then we can put this whole sorry Converse episode behind us.


I'm curious, what do you wear for exercise shoes?


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## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> A couple of weeks back our church hosted a casual dress Sunday


LOL, brings the Ed Asner clip to mind.




Was the sermon casual, can one be casually attentive, is prayer casual? 
While I'm seemingly a shoe aficionado (aside from my casual to dress collection of shell/calf skin shoes - I've acquired 3 pair of Sidi Wire shoes for cycling) I have one pair of Adidas Sambas (these would fit in the sneaker category) for working on the house/car and going to the associated stores for supplies.


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## bjornkarger (Oct 8, 2012)

I am wondering if, from a cognitive psych perspective, this trend is going to eventually lead to children dressing like adults (of the past) used to dress....


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

bjornkarger said:


> I am wondering if, from a cognitive psych perspective, this trend is going to eventually lead to children dressing like adults (of the past) used to dress....


Goths, steampunk, SCA... I think you're on to something. Indeed, the youth subculture I was part of was a rejection of the surf/skate T-shirt and shorts I was surrounded by. Costumey, sure, but we all start somewhere.


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## Avers (Feb 28, 2006)

There's a saying that goes something like this: the older we get the closer we become to the children. 

I recently went to a family event in a fancy restaurant. Everyone was dressed up nicely, women wore nice dresses, men had dress shirts on, some wore jackets/suits. Then this one adult guy shows up in shorts and tennis shirt. Go figure...


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> There's a saying that goes something like this: the older we get the closer we become to the children.


What do you mean by that?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> I recently went to a family event in a fancy restaurant. Everyone was dressed up nicely, women wore nice dresses, men had dress shirts on, some wore jackets/suits. Then this one adult guy shows up in shorts and tennis shirt. Go figure...


Maybe the guy didn't realize what the dress code was.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

Howard said:


> Maybe the guy didn't realize what the dress code was.


A grown man has the responsibility to inform himself so he doesn't embarrass himself.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Avers said:


> There's a saying that goes something like this: the older we get the closer we become to the children.
> 
> I recently went to a family event in a fancy restaurant. Everyone was dressed up nicely, women wore nice dresses, men had dress shirts on, some wore jackets/suits. Then this one adult guy shows up in shorts and tennis shirt. Go figure...


Reminds me of a blog couple of years ago, The Trad or Toad it seems. He had the duty of booking a restaurant in New Orleans for his in-laws and their friends, all in their 70s and 80s, and the men insisted on "no coat and tie place", and a couple didn't even want to wear long pants. I can't help but think it's a variation on "can't make me!"


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

MaxBuck said:


> I believe you have intentionally misinterpreted my commentary.
> 
> My sartorial desires for the fairer sex have an entirely different (evolutionary) basis than those for my fellow males.
> 
> So keep that Speedo under lock and key, thx.






DJH_of_Doom said:


> They can certainly do all of the above with the right suit and shoes. Well, maybe not the "hip" part. A wedding is actually a great way of teaching people who dress like slobs that they can actually look very good with a bit of effort.


:icon_cheers:

This is exactly what my male friends are starting to discover the more they ask my advice.



Grayson said:


> A grown man has the responsibility to inform himself so he doesn't embarrass himself.


Too true.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't give a damn. I worry about myself the most.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

delicious_scent said:


> I don't give a damn. I worry about myself the most.


definitely true.


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## Avers (Feb 28, 2006)

Howard said:


> Maybe the guy didn't realize what the dress code was.


He certainly knew what the occasion was, and he's been to that particular place and similar places before, so no surprise about the dress code.

It's just lack of respect on his part.


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## Pale_Male (May 20, 2013)

bjornkarger said:


> I am wondering if, from a cognitive psych perspective, this trend is going to eventually lead to children dressing like adults (of the past) used to dress....


It's happening now. But we still haven't quite finished the unraveling of dress standards as evidenced by the recent NYT article about shirtless men wandering the sidewalks of Manhattan.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

phyrpowr said:


> Reminds me of a blog couple of years ago, The Trad or Toad it seems. He had the duty of booking a restaurant in New Orleans for his in-laws and their friends, all in their 70s and 80s, and the men insisted on "no coat and tie place", and a couple didn't even want to wear long pants. I can't help but think it's a variation on "can't make me!"


Yeah, but it could be situational. If they were travelling and had no reason to bring a coat or tie, I don't see how that would be unreasonable. Similarly, they could have been out being tourists all day and were going immediately to dinner. I can appreciate shorts for a day spent outside in New Orleans swamp weather.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Tilton said:


> Yeah, but it could be situational. If they were travelling and had no reason to bring a coat or tie, I don't see how that would be unreasonable. Similarly, they could have been out being tourists all day and were going immediately to dinner. I can appreciate shorts for a day spent outside in New Orleans swamp weather.


Oh, definitely, but his point was that they were pretty quick and adamant about not wanting to get "all dressed up", not that it was simply inconvenient


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

phyrpowr said:


> Reminds me of a blog couple of years ago, The Trad or Toad it seems. He had the duty of booking a restaurant in New Orleans for his in-laws and their friends, all in their 70s and 80s, and the men insisted on "no coat and tie place", and a couple didn't even want to wear long pants. I can't help but think it's a variation on "can't make me!"


They must reside in Florida, the last bastion of sartorial elegance.

I had a similar experience a few years ago when a family acquaintance (Floridian) flatly refused to bring a coat and tie with him while visiting Washington, DC in order that we would dine at The Prime Rib. He insisted on dinning at Clydes of Gallery Place so that he would not have to wear a jacket and tie. When my lady friend and I arrived at the restaurant's cocktail lounge in order to rendezvous for dinner, I recognized him right away in golfing attire. :icon_pale: I guess he fancied that the ladies would swoon at the sight of a man dressed in sporting attire.

I have not spoken to this schlub since.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

Brio1 said:


> They must reside in Florida, the last bastion of sartorial elegance.
> 
> I had a similar experience a few years ago when a family acquaintance (Floridian) flatly refused to bring a coat and tie with him while visiting Washington, DC in order that we would dine at The Prime Rib. He insisted on dinning at Clydes of Gallery Place so that he would not have to wear a jacket and tie. When my lady friend and I arrived at the restaurant's cocktail lounge in order to rendezvous for dinner, I recognized him right away in golfing attire. :icon_pale: I guess he fancied that the ladies would swoon at the sight of a man dressed in sporting attire.
> 
> I have not spoken to this schlub since.


You come off as quite pretentious.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

delicious_scent said:


> You come off as quite pretentious.


And you reek of insolence, sir.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

Brio1 said:


> And you reek of insolence, sir.


I'm quite direct, you'll be alright.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

delicious_scent said:


> You come off as quite pretentious.


+1. Don't think the "schlub" is missing out on much .


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

Brio1 said:


> They must reside in Florida, the last bastion of sartorial elegance.


In our defense, it is obscenely hot down here. And often wet.

To our condemnation, the tourist boards have created a society where everyone appears to be on vacation... and travelling light.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

smmrfld said:


> +1. Don't think the "schlub" is missing out on much .


I imagine that the ladies are not missing out on much with you, either.  And get yourself a nice dictionary as you clearly can not spell : e.g. , "tho".


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

TSWalker said:


> In our defense, it is obscenely hot down here. And often wet.
> 
> To our condemnation, the tourist boards have created a society where everyone appears to be on vacation... and travelling light.


OK, we will grant you a pass while in your home state. :icon_smile: (The schlub resides in Tampa.) But while traveling out of state? Washington, DC or New York?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Brio and smmrfld, you've each said your piece. Please don't make one us of start deleting posts or issuing infractions.

Thank you for your cooperation.


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