# Quality of Brooks Brothers 346 ties?



## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

I know the 346 brand is looked down upon, but can anyone speak to the quality of the 346 line ties? Specifically, what is wrong with them? I ask because the outlet near me will be selling them for around $25-$30 new on Black Friday, and I was wondering if a $90 Brooks Makers tie is good enough to justify the price difference (or rather, is the 346 line bad enough to justify it).


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Human beings are hard wired to create for themselves, and then use, heuristics for decision making. Looking at the tag on a tie is one example. If Carl Sagan had been a haberdasher he might have said, "Out there are billions and billions of ties." The truth is that there are so many ties out there that even if only a very small percentage are any good, that still is a lot of good ties. Moreover, the men who choose the fabric and patterns to be made into ties are imitative. As a result you will find, for example, a lot of stripe ties that look similar to a lot of other stripe ties. The Makers and 346 lines will both have a lot of stripes, as will Talbot, Drakes, RL's lines, Paul Stuart, J Press, store labels Saks, Bergdorf etc. The same is true of all standard patterns.

The idea is for you to look at a lot of ties by the "best" makers and get a general sense of what looks and feels good. You will begin to develop a sense of what is good and what is not and be able to wean yourself from reliance on the label. Bottom line is, yes, there are some 346s, (a minority to be sure), that are better in design and feel than some Makers, irrespective of the price.


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## DG123 (Sep 16, 2011)

A few weeks back I walked through the Palm Springs area Cabazon Outlet Mall Brooks Brothers store. All the merchandise was 346 label product, and junk. I did not buy anything.
In fairness to Brooks Brothers, all of the outlet mall stores I walked into that day were selling disposable clothing. Polo, J&M etc...Crap stuff for low prices. No thanks.
A real value is paying more for good quality and then one has something he/she may wear and enjoy for many years. That is honest value.



WBuffettJr said:


> I know the 346 brand is looked down upon, but can anyone speak to the quality of the 346 line ties? Specifically, what is wrong with them? I ask because the outlet near me will be selling them for around $25-$30 new on Black Friday, and I was wondering if a $90 Brooks Makers tie is good enough to justify the price difference (or rather, is the 346 line bad enough to justify it).


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## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

I bought one not long ago and I am quite pleased with it. I truly believe that everything about a tie is subjective. Some guys like a thicker tie, some like them thinner. Some prefer more weight, some less. Some like a texture, or a dull finish, or for them to be a bit longer, or whatever. Even in the same time you can have conflicts. For instance, a tie with more folds/fabric has a nice look to it because it is very full, but that fullness can make for a less pronounced dimple.
I, personally, have gotten to the point where if I like the look of it and it doesn't feel like cardboard wrapped in tissue paper, I buy it. I have ties I paid $15 for and ties I paid $50 and I can't say categorically that one price range is better than another. Now, maybe if I was spending several hundred dollars per tie I could see a big difference, but having handled several, I doubt it, and I'm not going to pay that kind of money anyway.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

DG123 said:


> A few weeks back I walked through the Palm Springs area Cabazon Outlet Mall Brooks Brothers store. All the merchandise was 346 label product, and junk. I did not buy anything.
> In fairness to Brooks Brothers, all of the outlet mall stores I walked into that day were selling disposable clothing. Polo, J&M etc...Crap stuff for low prices. No thanks.
> A real value is paying more for good quality and then one has something he/she may wear and enjoy for many years. That is honest value.


Would a 346 tie not last many years? For me value is getting something that makes me just as happy as something else that cost three times more, and I can't help but wonder if a 346 tie would look and feel much like a Makers tie for 1/3 the price. I have learned that Walmart ties fall apart after two wears, but a $25 Brooks 346?


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

I should add that I was wondering the same thing about 346 belts, but I didn't want to get the topic too far away from ties in my OP, because that was my main concern.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

The main line belts are from softer, more supple leather than the 346s.


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## boatswaindog (Nov 18, 2010)

My own impression is that Brooks has in the last few years upgraded the 346 ties. I think that they are very close to the main store ties in quality. Made in the USA, I'm assuming they are made in the same factory. I purchased one 346 tie this summer and I am impressed with the quality of the fabric.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

The 346 ties are made in the same Long Island factory with the same factory workers on the same lines as the regular store ties. The difference is they use thicker Italian silk for the regular ties and thinner Asian silk for the 346 ties. The regular ties will tie a slightly fuller knot. Other than that, they are fairly similar

At $30 or so on sale, there may not be a better value for ties.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

nolan50410 said:


> The 346 ties are made in the same Long Island factory with the same factory workers on the same lines as the regular store ties. The difference is they use thicker Italian silk for the regular ties and thinner Asian silk for the 346 ties. The regular ties will tie a slightly fuller knot. Other than that, they are fairly similar
> 
> At $30 or so on sale, there may not be a better value for ties.


Wow, thank you much for the info, Nolan. Serious question, is thicker silk generally preferable to thinner silk on a necktie? Is a fuller knot preferable? I know it is a more expensive raw material, but does it make for a better looking tie?
Thanks,
WBJ


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## PMRuby (Jan 13, 2010)

They're not terribly inferior to the main line ties (nor are they priced as such at retail). As to your other question, I think 'fuller' is probably not perfect way to describe an ideal knot, though I cannot think of a better word off the top of my head. 'Fuller,' in this case, does not mean larger, which is what I suspect your initial reaction might have been. A tie made from a thicker silk provides a more substantial knot, one capable of creating and, more importantly, holding a nice shape through the day.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

WBuffettJr said:


> Wow, thank you much for the info, Nolan. Serious question, is thicker silk generally preferable to thinner silk on a necktie? Is a fuller knot preferable? I know it is a more expensive raw material, but does it make for a better looking tie?
> Thanks,
> WBJ


Depends on the knots you want to tie and the collars you wear. If you tie a FIH or half windsor and wear OCBDs or point collars, the 346 ties will probably work fine. If you prefer a wider spread, as I sometimes do, you'll want some ties that tie a fuller knot. There is a place in every wardrobe for ties with varying thicknesses and widths.


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## new shoes (Sep 2, 2011)

The best bang for your buck is to go to a Nordstrom Rack or somewhere similar and pick up ties and shirts. Ike Behar ties for $25 and Robert Talbott ties for $35. I'm still in shock at the quality of ties that circulate through there on a monthly basis.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

Yes, my local Neimans Last Call has had a table out for the last week full of Ike Behar ties. They've been 40% off the entire time in addition to the initial markdown, which puts the price somewhere between $23-$32. They certainly feel substantial. I replaced my Walmart black microdot tie ($5 new)with an Ike Behar black microdot tie ($23 new).


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## Haver55 (Dec 23, 2011)

Stopped in at Last Call today, and Ike Behar was 50% off, selling for $19.50. 346's were selling for $24.50.


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

The bow ties work just fine.

As for the four-in-hand ties, it probably depends. I have an embroidered silk one that I think tends to tie a rather inferior knot (it holds its shape poorly throughout the day); but its hand is just as nice as my makers ties. But they also sell a lot of jacquard prints on the 346 line, and those probably would not be noticeably different from anything else.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

Titus_A said:


> The bow ties work just fine.
> 
> As for the four-in-hand ties, it probably depends. I have an embroidered silk one that I think tends to tie a rather inferior knot (it holds its shape poorly throughout the day); but its hand is just as nice as my makers ties. But they also sell a lot of jacquard prints on the 346 line, and those probably would not be noticeably different from anything else.


Just read one of the latest issues of Consumer Reports which was great as always. They had an entire section on outlet stores and had a fabric expert doing reviews. Most outlet items got blasted, but the Brooks Brothers outlet ties beat out the Makers ties because the outlet ties were 100% silk while the Makers ties were a blend. The expert said the outlet ties were better quality and held better knots.


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## trapper81 (Apr 15, 2009)

That's interesting Buffett. I honestly can't tell the difference in the makers and the 346 basic silk ties when comparing them side by side. Other regular BB and 346 items seem to have a pretty noticeable difference in quality.



WBuffettJr said:


> Just read one of the latest issues of Consumer Reports which was great as always. They had an entire section on outlet stores and had a fabric expert doing reviews. Most outlet items got blasted, but the Brooks Brothers outlet ties beat out the Makers ties because the outlet ties were 100% silk while the Makers ties were a blend. The expert said the outlet ties were better quality and held better knots.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

FWIW, I just compaired five BB Makers ties and seven 346 ties taken from my tie rack and they seem generally comparable to me in tems of fabric, weight and construction quality. The biggest duifference to be noted is that the blades of four of the 346 ties are a bit more narrow the blade width of the Makers ties.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

new shoes said:


> The best bang for your buck is to go to a Nordstrom Rack or somewhere similar and pick up ties and shirts. Ike Behar ties for $25 and Robert Talbott ties for $35. I'm still in shock at the quality of ties that circulate through there on a monthly basis.


No kidding.

When you buy a RT Best of Class or Carmel for $35 you are paying substantially less than the wholesale price of the tie. The styles are usually at the rack for a reason, but the value is tremendous.

Another great American brand is JZ Richards. Jan's design studio is in Boulder, he sources silk from the best mills in the world, and the ties are all hand sewn in the US. I think they're a better tie than RT, especially for the money.


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## ckgs (Apr 13, 2013)

I bought a BB 346 tie today at their 40% off sale for about $30. 100% silk from Italy, made in the USA. Seems nice enough and in some ways is better than some of my "makers" ties which seem to be getting thinner each year. Perhaps they have upped the quality of ties at the outlet.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

The BB 346 ties aren't all that bad really and a pretty good value when on sale. 

You can certainly do a lot worse.


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## SCsailor (Jul 2, 2008)

Personally, I can't tell a difference in quality between the 346 ties and the ones at the regular brooks stores. The difference in price makes them a good value. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I have hundreds of Brooks Brothers ties (Makers, 346, Black Fleece, BFS, etc. etc.) If I blindfolded you and let you hold several ties, you would find them indistinguishable from line to line (with the exception of materials such as wool, cashmere, or linen). Some of my favorite BB ties are from the "346" line. If we ever get rid of this Panjo nonsense, I will be listing at least 100 Brooks Brothers ties for around $6 each.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

outside of cheap shoddy ties, when dealing with those of reasonable quality silk, is the the silk that is most important to the knot and dimple, or the interlining?

I suspect it is the latter, as some of my best tying ties, are inexpensive, from the Tie Bar. Some of my worst tying ties are also from the Tie Bar.


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## Piqué (Apr 10, 2014)

momsdoc said:


> outside of cheap shoddy ties, when dealing with those of reasonable quality silk, is the the silk that is most important to the knot and dimple, or the interlining?
> 
> I suspect it is the latter, as some of my best tying ties, are inexpensive, from the Tie Bar. Some of my worst tying ties are also from the Tie Bar.


If we assume a tie constructed of quality materials as our starting point: I find that the size of the small side of the blade has as much or more to do with whether the tie knots well as any other component. I've had beautiful ties that couldn't tie a decent knot to save their lives because their maker seemed unable to comprehend good blade proportion.


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## Investment Grade (Nov 23, 2013)

A few months ago I picked up 3 ties at one of their (frequent) 3 for $60 sale. One was pure silk, extremely thin, and tied a poor knot. Another was a standard navy/red rep tie which was a bit more substantial but still feels flimsy compared to similar ties from other makers, and also ties a poor knot. The last was a pin dot which has nice heft and ties a good knot. Based on this outcome I probably wouldn't buy another 346 tie. There are a pleothora of stores and makers who provide better value for money. The silk ties especially seem cheaply made and flimsy, but others' experience may differ.


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## adoucett (Nov 16, 2012)

drlivingston said:


> I have hundreds of Brooks Brothers ties (Makers, 346, Black Fleece, BFS, etc. etc.) If I blindfolded you and let you hold several ties, you would find them indistinguishable from line to line (with the exception of materials such as wool, cashmere, or linen). Some of my favorite BB ties are from the "346" line. If we ever get rid of this Panjo nonsense, I will be listing at least 100 Brooks Brothers ties for around $6 each.


Dear God...The ramifications of the Panjo era are worse than I even imagined. 

Well...You know you've got a customer here if/when that happens


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I see no reason to purchase ties from any source other than the Trad Exchange forum here at Ask Andy, unless one has something in mind that one can only get from Sam Hober or above and can afford it.


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## Wooster (Feb 15, 2014)

I found this thread after thrifting five ties in Jackson, Tn, Goodwill: one BB 346, one Polo, three Robert Talbot. $1.99 each, apparently unworn. I have a few BB ties. My only previous encounter with Talbot is a navy gold burgandy and white stripe bought in Albuquerque in 1966 and a navy and white club tie with crickets bought in Detroit.


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## adoucett (Nov 16, 2012)

For what it's worth, I wore a 346 Repp yesterday and I doubt there's many people on the planet that could differentiate the "346" from the "makers" version simply by looking at the front. 

That being said, thicknesses do seem to vary so try to find the beefier ones where possible.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

I posted this on the trad side earlier, my collection of 346's (the #1 stripe, #5 stripe, and textured yellow all came in today):



im a big fan, when found on discount they can be a great value IMHO. They're a bit stiff at first, but break in nicely.


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