# UK in December



## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

I have a couple days early December where I will be in the U.K. for a few days. I want to either go to England or Scotland and see the countryside. Perhaps a couple of small villages with a nice pub or B&B. I thought about flying into Edinburgh and spending two days there and then taking the train down to London. 

This is a budget conscious trip.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> I have a couple days early December where I will be in the U.K. for a few days. I want to either go to England or Scotland and see the countryside. Perhaps a couple of small villages with a nice pub or B&B. I thought about flying into Edinburgh and spending two days there and then taking the train down to London.
> 
> This is a budget conscious trip.


OK but what would you like to know.....?


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> This is a budget conscious trip.


The UK is not a budget considerate place, generally speaking (especially in London). Many things will be £1 = $1 in pricing terms (sales tax here is 20%, but you may be able to claim a VAT refund on large purchases). As Shaver says, are there any specific recommendations you're looking for?


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

I was looking for suggestions of quaint towns, hamlets, villages with great picture-perfect sights and vistas. I've been to the U.K. before, so I'm familar with the cost. I will be arriving from the continent and then departing for business in London. I have 72 hours -- Friday through Sunday evening -- to do something. I thought about going to Dublin, but the Scottish and English countrysides are appealing. I've been to the U.K. a lot, but have always spent time in the cities (Manchester, Birmingham, London, Cardiff and Belfast) and have never seen the countryside, except through the window of a train or plane.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> I was looking for suggestions of quaint towns, hamlets, villages with great picture-perfect sights and vistas. I've been to the U.K. before, so I'm familar with the cost. I will be arriving from the continent and then departing for business in London. I have 72 hours -- Friday through Sunday evening -- to do something. I thought about going to Dublin, but the Scottish and English countrysides are appealing. I've been to the U.K. a lot, but have always spent time in the cities (Manchester, Birmingham, London, Cardiff and Belfast) and have never seen the countryside, except through the window of a train or plane.


OK well Yorkshire and Cheshire are first rate for this kind of thing. The Yorkshire dales (try Malham and nearby Gordale Scar - Wordsworth wrote a poem about it and Turner painted it, that's how magnificent a place it it is) and the Peak district (try Castleton with Peveril Castle and the natural and mined caves which you can go deep underground to visit). These palces are as English and quaint as you could hope to encounter.

Athough it is a city York is an amazing day out for a visitor, architecture dating back to Roman times, medieval wall around the centre, one of the most spectacular cathedrals in the world, the shambles (a medieval street still in use), the train station (probably the most lovely outside of London), Cliffords Tower, Betty's Tea Room. Have a look at the Wikipedia entry and see if that tempts you.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Sorry if my first post stated the obvious.

It's tricky with the train. Shaver has a good suggestion with Yorkshire. You can get the train from Edinburgh to York and then York to London. Northumbria National Park is another suggestion. Get the train to Newcastle and then aim for the middle. I walked along the route of Hadrian's Wall a number of years ago, and the middle part is very pleasant. Alternatively get the train to Glasgow and then Glasgow to the Lake District (Oxenholme station). Magnificent countryside with the added attraction of the Lakes.

It's also tricky with the time of year. High risk of cloud and rain. For my part, visiting at that time of the year, I would choose to do city-based things given the risk. But I appreciate the wish to do something different to previous trips.

To be honest, the English countryside is pleasant enough but most of it is highly developed and it's hard to find large expanses to wander around in. America is much better served by open spaces and natural beauty.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Mr Balfour has a very valid point. Public transport serves the UK rather badly, unfortunately. To really get around the quiet corners of England you might consider hiring a car. 

I do dispute with Mr B over the large expanses though, we have quite a few areas that are wild and desolate and brimming with beauty from one horizon to the other.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I do dispute with Mr B over the large expanses though, we have quite a few areas that are wild and desolate and brimming with beauty from one horizon to the other.


Yep, in Scotland and parts of Wales!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> Yep, in Scotland and parts of Wales!


Ilkley Moor, Rosedale, Cleveland Way, Derwent Valley, Saddleworth Moor, Pennine Way........ just tell me when you need me to stop. :icon_smile:


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Nah. I'm talking about places where you can walk or drive for miles without encountering a soul, or indeed even seeing any signs of human habitation. Places of true solitude. Ilkley Moor, for instance, is on the edge of the urban conurbation that is Leeds / Bradford. It is indeed a beautiful spot, but you will see lots of towns, villages, tourists and weekenders around. 

Parts of America and Scotland, by contrast, have a much more 'empty' feel to them. Those sorts of places are fairly thin on the ground in England.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> Nah. I'm talking about places where you can walk or drive for miles without encountering a soul, or indeed even seeing any signs of human habitation. Places of true solitude. Ilkley Moor, for instance, is on the edge of the urban conurbation that is Leeds / Bradford. It is indeed a beautiful spot, but you will see lots of towns, villages, tourists and weekenders around.
> 
> Parts of America and Scotland, by contrast, have a much more 'empty' feel to them. Those sorts of places are fairly thin on the ground in England.


ah, ok. If the criteria is such then I admit I was not thinking in quite those terms. We're looking to send hockeyinsider to the truly blasted heath then. Scotland it is: Ullapool to Durness on the A838, that'll do the trick. :icon_smile_wink:


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

One suggestion, one the way from Edinburgh to London take a trip to a town, Norwich comes to mind, and take day trips. For smaller villages buses may me the only option. I did that from Norwich and you can go all sorts of places overseas tourists never go. Plus many buses are double decker, so you get great views of the countryside. Renting a car might be an option as well.

I would also ask this at the Rick Steves travelers helpline. Very helpful resource.
https://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Public transport is up the creek at weekends. Engineering works are used as an excuse to close rail and Tube lines. 'Replacement bus services' will take forever. Best not plan to go too far from your base unless you are driving.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

I recall, at least once upon a time, that you could ride around in the back of the postman's truck in Scotland?


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> I recall, at least once upon a time, that you could ride around in the back of the postman's truck in Scotland?


I doubt whether that is still possible. Unfortunately you have chosen a poor time of year to visit the UK, it will be dark from 4.00 pm in England and even earlier in Scotland, so I would head south from Edinburgh.

One place you might consider visiting is York - a great deal to see in York itself, but you can also travel from York by train to Scarborough via the North York Moors and I believe also westwards into the Pennines - some of the places Shaver has mentioned. The coastal town of Whitby might also interest. BTW York is on the main line from Edinburgh to London, but before you get to York, consider stopping off at Durham for a few hours - the Norman cathedral and castle complex is possibly one of the best views in all of Europe.


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## misterhyde (Dec 4, 2009)

If you do get to Yorkshire, you must visit Bradford. Beautiful


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

OK. It's official: I have two full days. I can take the train north from London to Edinburgh, but I'd really only have a night and day to explore the city. Others have suggested York.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> OK. It's official: I have two full days. I can take the train north from London to Edinburgh, but I'd really only have a night and day to explore the city. Others have suggested York.


On further reflection that doesn't seem long enough to justify spending any of the time on the train. Whether or not you've visited the UK before, I would either stay in London, or fly direct to Edinburgh and stay there - it's certainly a wonderful city, two days would be just enough to scratch the surface. 
If you want to see something of the British countryside, come back any time after April and plan to spend at least a week somewhere.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Langham said:


> On further reflection that doesn't seem long enough to justify spending any of the time on the train. Whether or not you've visited the UK before, I would either stay in London, or fly direct to Edinburgh and stay there - it's certainly a wonderful city, two days would be just enough to scratch the surface.
> If you want to see something of the British countryside, come back any time after April and plan to spend at least a week somewhere.


Good suggestion.

OP, ignore the comment about Bradford. It was in jest (I assume). If you do decide to travel, the York suggestion is excellent.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> Good suggestion.
> 
> OP, ignore the comment about Bradford. It was in jest (I assume). If you do decide to travel, the York suggestion is excellent.


+1 to visiting York and also to ignoring Bradford (which, so you are aware, is as unfortunate and derelict a city as you could find in the whole of England).


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> +1 to visiting York and also to ignoring Bradford (which, so you are aware, is as unfortunate and derelict a city as you could find in the whole of England).


Visited Scunthorpe yet, Shaver?


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## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

Langham said:


> On further reflection that doesn't seem long enough to justify spending any of the time on the train. Whether or not you've visited the UK before, I would either stay in London, or fly direct to Edinburgh and stay there - it's certainly a wonderful city, two days would be just enough to scratch the surface.
> If you want to see something of the British countryside, come back any time after April and plan to spend at least a week somewhere.


On the basis of your limited time, budget, the time of year, the UK's incomplete and unreliable transportation system, I would vote for keeping it simple.

Edinburgh would be a lovely place to spend two days. It will make more of an impact than York (and I speak as a Yorkshireman myself). Bradford, the city of my birth, was once a jewel of northern England but now must be avoided at all costs.

Another pleasant option would be to base yourself in London and take a day trip to Oxford or Cambridge. In my own home city of Oxford you are walking in beautiful ancient meadow and countryside within 20 minutes of setting off from the middle of town. The countryside is not nearly as spectacular as Scotland or Yorkshire, but there are plenty of quaint and ancient pubs dotted around.

If you had longer and were up for some hiking, Yorkshire would be wonderful. Personally, however, I would as I say keep it simple.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> Visited Scunthorpe yet, Shaver?


I have but not in a while. It was not so pleasant but it would have to go a long way to beat the city centre of Bradford, stuck as it is half torn down, rotting away, patiently awaiting the unfortunately cancelled redevelopment. The beautiful Odeon theatre sprouting trees from it's carapace. Very dismal and a great shame.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-17815453


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ +1 to Haffman's post. 

(A trip from London out to Oxford or Cambridge would be a short hop on the train (c. 1 hour journey) rather than splitting up a journey by train from London to Edinburgh (which will be expensive to do).)


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## misterhyde (Dec 4, 2009)

How sorry I am that some of you feel so repelled and full of disgust towards beautiful Bradford. Bateman and Ogden, Black **** mohair, Salt Mills, Emmerdale, Hockney, Bronte, Manningham Lane and Mumtaz. Shall I go on? Lets be honest, Hockeyinsider isn't going to have time to really do the Yorkshire Dales thing, especially considering the month he will be visiting, so wouldn't it better that at least while he's here he picks up some fine worsteds and mohairs to take back with him? Remember the forum that we are on and the interests that we share. Balfour is correct in his assumption, I was initially jesting. However, the more I think of it, the more I think it's not such a bad idea.


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## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

misterhyde said:


> How sorry I am that some of you feel so repelled and full of disgust towards beautiful Bradford. Bateman and Ogden, Black **** mohair, Salt Mills, Emmerdale, Hockney, Bronte, Manningham Lane and Mumtaz. Shall I go on? Lets be honest, Hockeyinsider isn't going to have time to really do the Yorkshire Dales thing, especially considering the month he will be visiting, so wouldn't it better that at least while he's here he picks up some fine worsteds and mohairs to take back with him? Remember the forum that we are on and the interests that we share. Balfour is correct in his assumption, I was initially jesting. However, the more I think of it, the more I think it's not such a bad idea.


Sounds like 'Bradford's bouncing back' eh?!

Sad to say it wouldn't be where I would go for fine worsteds and mohairs. Shame, as I recall clearly the thriving wool mill that was once over the road from my grandmothers house. Seems like another age now, which I suppose it was.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

misterhyde said:


> How sorry I am that some of you feel so repelled and full of disgust towards beautiful Bradford. Bateman and Ogden, Black **** mohair, Salt Mills, Emmerdale, Hockney, Bronte, *Manningham Lane* and Mumtaz. Shall I go on? Lets be honest, Hockeyinsider isn't going to have time to really do the Yorkshire Dales thing, especially considering the month he will be visiting, so wouldn't it better that at least while he's here he picks up some fine worsteds and mohairs to take back with him? Remember the forum that we are on and the interests that we share. Balfour is correct in his assumption, I was initially jesting. However, the more I think of it, the more I think it's not such a bad idea.


Manningham Lane?! Well, if you want a tart or a toot, perhaps. :icon_scratch:


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## misterhyde (Dec 4, 2009)

Maybe you're right, lol


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I have but not in a while. It was not so pleasant but it would have to go a long way to beat the city centre of Bradford, stuck as it is half torn down, rotting away, patiently awaiting the unfortunately cancelled redevelopment. The beautiful Odeon theatre sprouting trees from it's carapace. Very dismal and a great shame.
> 
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-17815453


My question was merely rhetorical, for I feel some of the posts have been unjustifiably harsh on Bradford. I admit I've only been there once, quite a long time ago, but I quite liked the place - although like many English cities, spoiled by post-war redevelopment.


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## bernoulli (Mar 21, 2011)

I have traveled through some of the small Islands that comprise the UK, and being a fellow tourist I thought I might chime in. By all means Edinburgh is a wonderful city, and one of the very few I would consider permanent residency (if not for the crappy weather). Wonderful city and well worth a week, but 2 days will, as another posts astutely commented, scratch the surface nicely. Oxbridge is another interesting suggestion, and both cities (towns? villages?) are short day trips from London. Edinburgh offers much more than Oxbridge though, and if I had to choose it would be Edinburgh without thinking twice.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> My question was merely rhetorical, for I feel some of the posts have been unjustifiably harsh on Bradford. I admit I've only been there once, quite a long time ago, but I quite liked the place - although like many English cities, spoiled by post-war redevelopment.


Oh.

Do let me know if any future questions are rhetorical - it'll save me some time in not bothering to answer. :icon_smile:


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Oh.
> 
> Do let me know if any future questions are rhetorical - it'll save me some time in not bothering to answer. :icon_smile:


I thought it might have been obvious, but for the avoidance of doubt, in future I will add an asterisk.:smile:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> I thought it might have been obvious, but for the avoidance of doubt, in future I will add an asterisk.:smile:


Splendid! :icon_smile:


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## jeffreyc (Apr 8, 2010)

There are hundreds of towns and villages that could be recommended dependent on the requirement. Our nearest one is Chawton where Jane Austin lived at one time (at least that's what draws the tourists ! or it could be the pub !). But you could see all there is to see in 2 hours. Also Portmerion in Wales (where the Prisoner was filmed), Bideford in Devon, Bath with its Roman ruins etc. Battle for the site of the invasion.
I think the suggestion of Oxford or York for a days visit is also mine.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

misterhyde said:


> How sorry I am that some of you feel so repelled and full of disgust towards beautiful Bradford. Bateman and Ogden, Black **** mohair, Salt Mills, Emmerdale, Hockney, Bronte, Manningham Lane and Mumtaz. Shall I go on? Lets be honest, Hockeyinsider isn't going to have time to really do the Yorkshire Dales thing, especially considering the month he will be visiting, so wouldn't it better that at least while he's here he picks up some fine worsteds and mohairs to take back with him? Remember the forum that we are on and the interests that we share. Balfour is correct in his assumption, I was initially jesting. However, the more I think of it, the more I think it's not such a bad idea.


I was sort of thinking of clothes shopping, of course. The idea of visiting the Highlands and coming across a tiny shop the internet had forgotten selling tweeds and tartan is probably a romanticism not grounded in reality.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> I was sort of thinking of clothes shopping, of course. The idea of visiting the Highlands and coming across a tiny shop the internet had forgotten selling tweeds and tartan is probably a romanticism not grounded in reality.


Possibly so - you might find such places somewhere like Hawick in the Borders. The fact is that not many Scots wear tweed, and fewer still wear tartan - kilts and sporrans are not exactly every-day wear. A few specialist shops in Edinburgh and Inverness sell tartan, but most are just for the tourists I'm afraid. How many of those sell through the internet I couldn't say.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Langham said:


> Possibly so - you might find such places somewhere like Hawick in the Borders. The fact is that not many Scots wear tweed, and fewer still wear tartan - kilts and sporrans are not exactly every-day wear. A few specialist shops in Edinburgh and Inverness sell tartan, but most are just for the tourists I'm afraid. How many of those sell through the internet I couldn't say.


A Hume would appear to be such a place. I just have this romantic vision of a small Scottish or northern English countryside village, where the gents walkabout in tweed, cord and quilted jackets. The type of picture-perfect town, where the church bells ring on Sunday forenoon and the pubs fill that afternoon for the weekly roast.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Harris Tweed specialist shop, Newtonmore village, Scottish Highlands.

https://www.harristweedshop.com/index.html


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> I just have this romantic vision of a small Scottish or northern English countryside village, where the gents walkabout in tweed, cord and quilted jackets. The type of picture-perfect town, where the church bells ring on Sunday forenoon and the pubs fill that afternoon for the weekly roast.


Like our academic friend about to go on sabbatical to Cambridge, I fear you may be disappointed. Jeans, jeans, jeans in the British countryside I'm afraid, plus the occasional dirt bike.


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## misterhyde (Dec 4, 2009)

It just so happens that I know of a Tailor based in Armley, Leeds who has some wonderful vintage Tweeds, 22oz Worsteds, old horn buttons etc etc. Works from a right dump of a place but not a bad tailor.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

misterhyde said:


> It just so happens that I know of a Tailor based in Armley, Leeds who has some wonderful vintage Tweeds, 22oz Worsteds, old horn buttons etc etc. Works from a right dump of a place but not a bad tailor.


https://www.steve-horsman.co.uk/?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Wow. I spent much of my life in and out of Armley and never came across him.


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## misterhyde (Dec 4, 2009)

@ Shaver. Then you never came across Steve Horsman. Bit concerned when you say you've been in and out of Armley.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

misterhyde said:


> @ Shaver. Then you never came across Steve Horsman. Bit concerned when you say you've been in and out of Armley.


I don't mean Armley jail! :biggrin:


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

misterhyde said:


> @ Shaver. Then you never came across Steve Horsman. Bit concerned when you say you've been in and out of Armley.


Yes, I was a bit concerned too. On another thread he expresses admiration for machine guns, it all paints a deeply worrying picture.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> Yes, I was a bit concerned too. On another thread he expresses admiration for machine guns, it all paints a deeply worrying picture.


To a lurid mind, perhaps.

In an unrelated matter: fox hunting? :icon_smile_wink:


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> To a lurid mind, perhaps.
> 
> In an unrelated matter: fox hunting? :icon_smile_wink:


Yes Shaver, my mind is highly lurid at times, it's the best way to get through the day. :icon_smile_wink:

Fox hunting? I'm not sure what you are suggesting, but feel free to start a discussion on it if you wish* - you'll soon see whether I run with the fox or the hounds.

*but just not one that is along the same old lines as it's an old old subject which everyone has their own view on, and no one is likely to be persuaded otherwise.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> Yes Shaver, my mind is highly lurid at times, it's the best way to get through the day. :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> Fox hunting? I'm not sure what you are suggesting, but feel free to start a discussion on it if you wish* - you'll soon see whether I run with the fox or the hounds.
> 
> *but just not one that is along the same old lines as it's an old old subject which everyone has their own view on, and no one is likely to be persuaded otherwise.


I'm just returning the favour and yanking your chain. :icon_smile:


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

You chaps have really hijacked this thread.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> You chaps have really hijacked this thread.


But not before providing some first rate advice, I trust? 

Is there anything else you would like to know, to re-focus the theme?


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I'm just returning the favour and yanking your chain. :icon_smile:


Oh? I thought you were suggesting it as a proposition.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

hockeyinsider said:


> You chaps have really hijacked this thread.


I'm so sorry - I'll go away now.:teacha:


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## misterhyde (Dec 4, 2009)

You tell em, hockeyinsider.


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