# French Cuff + No Tie = OK for business casual?



## johnnybravo22 (Jan 31, 2007)

Hi, wondering if this would be breaking a rule. Anyone working in finance in particular would be helpful, but all responses are welcome.

Firm official dress code is business casual, although many wear ties almost daily. I have seen french cuffs in the office, but dont recall if a tie was also worn. Is it acceptable to wear a french cuff shirt, perhaps with silk knots, and without a tie in this environment?


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## kbuzz (Apr 2, 2005)

*not a fan*

im sure you will get differing opinions but, personally i cant stand the look of french cuffs unless you are wearing a suit....affecccccccccccccccted


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Are you wearing a sport coat? If not, then don't wear FCs.


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Don't see why people get so uptight about this - I pretty much only own french cuffed shirts. Then again, I roll up my sleeves when I'm not wearing a jacket, so no one notices.

I do find people who wear cufflinks under a jumper a bit creepy though.


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## Tom Bell-Drier (Mar 1, 2006)

Henry couldn`t agree more with your post.

+1


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## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

I do this pretty often - I like to dress well, but, because I work with forensic psychiatric patients, I don't wear ties. Nobody I work with seems to think much of it, but it's not exactly finance.


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

I only own French cuff dress shirts, so I frequently end up wearing them without either a jacket or a tie. I wear them primarily because they're more comfortable than barrel cuffs. As far as I can tell there's absolutely nothing wrong with wearing them without a tie or jacket.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I am sure Andy, manton, and others could point you to the precise rule regarding this, but in everyday life, I think much of this comes down to preference. I wear FC's, with tie, sans jacket whenever I feel like it in the desert heat and I am sure I am breaking some rule or another. However, I do not really care, surviving the summer heat is more important than following a rule made for much cooler climes IMO.

Where preference also enters in is with things such as white or contrast collars and cuffs. I find white/collar cuffs, sans jacket, very shmarmy. Add in braces and you have the boss from Office Space imitating Gordon Gecko. Again though, that is just my personal preference and really who gives a damn about that?

So I say, if you think the FC's sans tie looks good and no one at your office with the ability to affect your career cares about it, go for it.


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## OmegaBlogger (Mar 25, 2007)

I wear FC's with jeans, no tie, no jacket.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

OmegaBlogger said:


> I wear FC's with jeans, no tie, no jacket.


Mr. Jagger?


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## OmegaBlogger (Mar 25, 2007)

Wayfarer said:


> Mr. Jagger?


No, I always wear socks when sporting FC's.


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## Fortinbras (Feb 4, 2005)

I think French cuffs without a tie look awful. French cuffs are more formal than a barrel cuff. You can dress French cuffs down a bit with silk knots when you want to wear them with an odd jacket, but I do not think you can dress them down to the point at which they look good sans tie. Basically, when I think of French cuffs without a tie, what comes to mind is some kid with his shirt untucked, wearing jeans and Kenneth Cole shoes. More power to you if you like that sort of thing, but it's not my cup of tea.


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## jcriswel (Sep 16, 2006)

*French Cuffs*

I always were a suit when wearing French Cuffs. Call me old school.


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

French cuffs, regular cuffs....either way no big deal. whether it looks good without a tie depends more on the color, cut and style of the shirt in combination with the cufflinks as well as your overall look. 

AZTEC


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## arenn (Dec 29, 2003)

I do it all the time - think it looks just fine. I've even done french cuffs with jeans - makes a smart look for a trendy restaurant if I must say so myself.

I sometimes like to dress them down a bit with silk knots when going sans suit/tie.


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## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

Im sorry but no...trying much to hard....I suggest only french cuffs with a suit & a tie.....
My dos centavos...


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## patbrady2005 (Oct 4, 2005)

French cuff = suit & tie IMO. Maybe a navy blazer. Unless you're going clubbing or something like that.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

I strictly only wear French cuffs with a tie and a coat. I even avoid wearing them with just a sport coat. 

However, in an age when men wear jeans to black tie, suits open necked with flip flops and t-shirts, I guess I might as well be telling you to wear a frock coat and topper to work.


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

What I fail to see is the problem of being over dressed for a situation, in any article of clothing. Sometimes going to the next level of formality looks silly, such as wearing patent leather oxfords with a suit, but I don't think the FC with no coat/no tie look is silly.


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## patbrady2005 (Oct 4, 2005)

Sator said:


> I strictly only wear French cuffs with a tie and a coat. I even avoid wearing them with just a sport coat.
> 
> However, in an age when men wear jeans to black tie, suits open necked with flip flops and t-shirts, I guess I might as well be telling you to wear a frock coat and topper to work.


Don't give up on us, Sator!


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

I'll wear them with a blazer, now and then, but never without a jacket.


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

johnnybravo22 said:


> Hi, wondering if this would be breaking a rule. Anyone working in finance in particular would be helpful, but all responses are welcome.
> 
> Firm official dress code is business casual, although many wear ties almost daily. I have seen french cuffs in the office, but dont recall if a tie was also worn. Is it acceptable to wear a french cuff shirt, perhaps with silk knots, and without a tie in this environment?


It's going to be annoying as all get out if you're spending a lot of time at a computer.

And IMO it doesn't look good.


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## WinstonSpencer (Mar 12, 2006)

oh...please no.


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## johnnybravo22 (Jan 31, 2007)

Ok.

I was thinking w/o jacket and w/o a tie but given forum opinion to the contrary I will reconsider. 

On the issue of FCs, has anyone ever worn them in "barrel style"? That's the best way I can think to describe the style I've seen (in a random picture that I can't locate at the moment), where basically instead of a flat cuff the french cuff is rolled over itself just like barrel cuffs are, and the link closes the cuff just like buttons do. Is this an acceptable way to wear FCs?


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## Tom Bell-Drier (Mar 1, 2006)

I have worn FC`s barrel style (without cufflinks) beneath a sweater but thats about it.


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## JAGMAJ (Feb 10, 2005)

hopkins_student said:


> What I fail to see is the problem of being over dressed for a situation, in any article of clothing. Sometimes going to the next level of formality looks silly, such as wearing patent leather oxfords with a suit, but I don't think the FC with no coat/no tie look is silly.


That's the problem. French cuffs are normally considered to be more formal, which is precisely why many members on this forum (myself included) instinctively cringe at the sight of french cuffs without a tie (certainly a casual look). I'm also one of those who doesn't even like the look of french cuffs with a sports coat. French cuffs definitely call for a suit in my opinion-- unless they're rolled up and you can't tell that they're french cuffs. Since rolled up sleeves are inherently casual, the lack of a tie or a suit is no problem in that situation.


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

While it goes against "The Rules," it is an option where ties are not called for.


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## josepidal (Jul 24, 2005)

Henry said:


> I do find people who wear cufflinks under a jumper a bit creepy though.


Even with silk knots, though?


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## Khnelben (Feb 18, 2005)

*Another one of ...*

those UK/US threads - of course it's ok to wear double cuffs with everything.

Being in the banking business I can tell you we see a lot of banking guys from the US (either living in London or the US) wearing DC.

You can also wear links with sweaters - just look at Prince William.

Andrey


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## ccffm1 (Jul 31, 2005)

Apart from the aspects Sator e.a. have pointed out I would refrain from wearing a French cuffed shirt sans tie, simply because in most cases it will have a type of collar that just cries out for one.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

I would advise against this idea, especially if you are under 30.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Khnelben said:


> those UK/US threads - of course it's ok to wear double cuffs with everything.
> 
> Being in the banking business I can tell you we see a lot of banking guys from the US (either living in London or the US) wearing DC.
> 
> ...


I love 'the rules' as much as the next man, but have come to accept that today this is not just OK but actually quite a good look - both open neck with suit and the sweater version. This may hark back to my days of Mod watching (while still too young to be one) in the 60s. I recall it was a cool look back then.

Rolling up my FC sleeves is something I would never do.


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

*In an ideal world, one would not wear double cuffs without a suit and a tie, but . .*

. . . that does not account for the climactic conditions in the NYC subway system in summer.

As much as I think that, in season, that double-cuffed shirt should be worn with a suit and a tie (or, at the very least, a sports jacket, depending on the pattern of the shirt), in summer, there are a few of my very loudest DC shirts that I would wear without jacket or tie. These would be some H & K shirts that I "inherited" from my partner (he outgrew them), and they are problematic, at best, for co-ordination with a tie or a suit, and actually look "self-sufficient" when worn without either accoutrement.

I do think that very plain DC shirts worn without jacket or tie would look quite bland, but, then again, if one's shirt supply is relatively small, need overcomes style . . .


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

^ I agree u_c. I think the shirt has to be 'interesting' in its own right otherwise the look can be quite bland and 'unfinished'.


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## fashion_newbie (Mar 20, 2006)

I don't usually wear cufflinks but have been tempted to start recently. I like the look of the silk links better and will probably wear it with a suit to start off.
What should the color of the links match with? Same as the shirt? Or the tie? If not wearing a tie...?
Thanks!


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Brideshead said:


> I love 'the rules' as much as the next man, but have come to accept that today this is not just OK but actually quite a good look - both open neck with suit and the sweater version. This may hark back to my days of Mod watching (while still too young to be one) in the 60s. I recall it was a cool look back then.
> 
> Rolling up my FC sleeves is something I would never do.


+1. I couldn't agree more. Make the splash. An excellent look. I like wearing FC without a tie and sometimes with a SC.


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## bdam1 (Mar 14, 2006)

I'm in the finance business (business casual) and probably wear FC sans tie 3 days a week, granted I'm in SoCal and we are all a little "off" sartorially here (wink)! I'm certain my brethern from the East would cringe, but it actually a viable option here.

Wear it with confidence!!


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

...hmmm and people wonder why some have come to regard cufflinks as declasse:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=69372

With all the loud striped shirts worn out, open necked and with some cheap and nasty looking cufflinks with it - is it any surprise?


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Sator said:


> ...hmmm and people wonder why some have come to regard cufflinks as declasse:
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=69372
> 
> With all the loud striped shirts worn out, open necked and with some cheap and nasty looking cufflinks with it - is it any surprise?


Yes, all very familiar. But there will always be those who 'abuse the privilege', as with any other style. I am not sure that anyone here is advocating a lowering of quality standards or the shirt worn outside the trousers....


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## stuarts8 (Jan 8, 2004)

*French Cuff+No Tie = OK for business casual*

I think it is absolutely fine to wear French Cuff Shirts with No tie for Business casual. I am actually beginning to believe that French Cuff Shirts actually look better worn casually. 
What I often do if it is particularly hot or I am working at my computer, and I want to stop my cuffs getting dirty, then i unfasten the links (leaving them in the shirt) and folding the cuffs back .
I do that quite often actually.
Cheers
Stuarts8


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## johnnyblazini (Feb 24, 2006)

Sator said:


> I strictly only wear French cuffs with a tie and a coat. I even avoid wearing them with just a sport coat.
> 
> However, in an age when men wear jeans to black tie, suits open necked with flip flops and t-shirts, I guess I might as well be telling you to wear a frock coat and topper to work.


I don't know. I also find FC without suit and tie to be somewhat vile...


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

French cuffed shirts without suit or sport coat doesn't even come close to making my top 30 problems with business casual.


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## josepidal (Jul 24, 2005)

Doesn't the opportunity to wear FC shirts sans tie and even sans jacket tempt one to get a pouch of silk knots in various colors?


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

I see this look in financial circles quite often. It seems to be popular amongst the young banker set, hedgie wannabes, and mini-ballers. I don't think it's a good look myself, but I wouldn't put in the same league as, say, wearing an OCBD to the office.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Old Brompton said:


> I see this look in financial circles quite often. It seems to be popular amongst the young banker set, hedgie wannabes, and mini-ballers. I don't think it's a good look myself, but I wouldn't put in the same league as, say, wearing an OCBD to the office.


So, are you saying that wearing an OCBD to the office is more heinous than wearing a French-cuffed shirt sans jacket and with an open collar? Even if the OCBD is worn with coat and tie or even suit and tie (if you're a Trad)?

To my mind, wearing any kind of dress shirt except for a button down with the collar unbuttoned makes you look like a real doofus!


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

Good Old Sledge said:


> I do this pretty often - I like to dress well, but, because I work with forensic psychiatric patients, I don't wear ties. Nobody I work with seems to think much of it, but it's not exactly finance.


This, of course, caught my attention. Is the concern that the patient will use the tie to strangle you? I believe there is a way to tie a knot that can't be "used against you." Or are you in an environment where you can't bring anything that they could use to hang themselves? Can you wear a belt?

FWIW, I don't like French cuffs unless its with a dinner jacket. But that's just personal taste.


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

JLibourel said:


> So, are you saying that wearing an OCBD to the office is more heinous than wearing a French-cuffed shirt sans jacket and with an open collar? Even if the OCBD is worn with coat and tie or even suit and tie (if you're a Trad)?
> 
> To my mind, wearing any kind of dress shirt except for a button down with the collar unbuttoned makes you look like a real doofus!


Yes. I wouldn't use the word 'heinous,' but I do think an OCBD is an inappropriate choice for a job in finance, _ceteris paribus_. It is simply not done. Bad form. Too American. Too amateurish. In banking and investment circles, OCBDs are rare. English spread collars are much more acceptable, even when worn _sans_ tie, believe it or not.


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