# Forced sterilization



## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Offered without comment:
https://romea.cz/english/index.php?id=detail&detail=2007_561


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

This is one of the reasons why I wish we still had the Cold War and an Iron Curtain. Keeps people like these medical aparatachiki out of the rest of the world.

As a US businessman working around the world I have not yet met a businessman from any former Soviet Bloc country that is either not an outright criminal himself, or else has close links to a criminal organization.

Who let the dogs out? 

M8


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> This is one of the reasons why I wish we still had the Cold War and an Iron Curtain. Keeps people like these medical aparatachiki out of the rest of the world.
> 
> As a US businessman working around the world I have not yet met a businessman from any former Soviet Bloc country that is either not an outright criminal himself, or else has close links to a criminal organization.
> 
> ...


I realize you need every possible opportunity to unleash your anti-eastern-bloc rant, we've all heard it before... but you completely missed the point here; the women being sterilized are Gypsies, and like the anti-semitism which it closely parallels, this kind of active racism isn't limited to east or west.

Your comment about crooked businessmen simply has nothing to do with this thread. I certainly wouldn't want to accuse you of being an ignorant bigot, but making such a blanket generalization indicates a very limited knowledge of this group of people.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

rip said:


> I realize you need every possible opportunity to unleash your anti-eastern-bloc rant, we've all heard it before... but you completely missed the point here; the women being sterilized are Gypsies, and like the anti-semitism which it closely parallels, this kind of active racism isn't limited to east or west.
> 
> Your comment about crooked businessmen simply has nothing to do with this thread. I certainly wouldn't want to accuse you of being an ignorant bigot, but making such a blanket generalization indicates a very limited knowledge of this group of people.


Well, you are Liberal. This is the kind of thing that state run health systems beget, which is what Liberals want. Pretty soon these systems become totalitarian and decide to do whatever they want to do. In this case, they made the decision for her in her "right to choose". Eh?

Crooked statesmen have become the crooked businessman. Throw the Iron Curtain back up and keep them inside. Same for the women. Didn't you see the movie_ Birthday Girl? :icon_smile_big:_


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

rip said:


> I realize you need every possible opportunity to unleash your anti-eastern-bloc rant, we've all heard it before... but you completely missed the point here; the women being sterilized are Gypsies, and like the anti-semitism which it closely parallels, *this kind of active racism isn't limited to east or west*.
> 
> Your comment about crooked businessmen simply has nothing to do with this thread. I certainly wouldn't want to accuse you of being an ignorant bigot, but making such a blanket generalization indicates a very limited knowledge of this group of people.


This is part of the great leftist lie which tries to equate all wrongs. I know of no western country which is practicing forced sterilization of its ethnic minorities. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to which you are aware of?

I won't defend [email protected]'s lumping of all Russian businessmen into the same boat, but implying that this type of racism exists throughout the west seems to me to be overreaching.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Mark from Plano said:


> ...
> I won't defend [email protected]'s lumping of all Russian businessmen into the same boat...


Uh, the lumping applies to most former Eastern Bloc countries, not just the Russians, though they are the clear leaders. I'll give a pass to Poland and the Baltic countries. Oh, they also are ruining Western Europe. They treat wait and hotel staff horribly, yell in their cell phones, and their cleanliness habits are horrible. They like bathe once a week and hope that their cologne and/or perfume will cover up the stench.

I'm out there in the world and see this stuff.

M8


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Uh, the lumping applies to most former Eastern Bloc countries, not just the Russians, though they are the clear leaders. I'll give a pass to Poland and the Baltic countries. Oh, they also are ruining Western Europe. They treat wait and hotel staff horribly, yell in their cell phones, and their cleanliness habits are horrible. They like bathe once a week and hope that their cologne and/or perfume will cover up the stench.
> 
> I'm out there in the world and see this stuff.
> 
> M8


I take back the pass I tried to give you; you are an ignorant bigot!


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Mark from Plano said:


> This is part of the great leftist lie which tries to equate all wrongs. I know of no western country which is practicing forced sterilization of its ethnic minorities. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to which you are aware of?
> 
> I won't defend [email protected]'s lumping of all Russian businessmen into the same boat, but implying that this type of racism exists throughout the west seems to me to be overreaching.


The practice in this specific form was developed to its highest level by the Germans in the 1930s, clearly a western European group; however, by the term "active racism", I did not mean to imply that forced sterilization was the necessary component, and I'm certainly not talking about "ethnic minorities" in general, I'm specifically talking about Gypsies (Roma). Ghettoization, marginalization, denial of services, street attacks, denial of housing, restrictive legistlation, etc., occur toward the Roma in every country in which they constitute an observable presence; less so in the US, but it isn't totally absent, even here. It is more prevelant in eastern Europe because there are and historically have been many more Gypsies there and the Soviet system was as overtly anti-Roma as it was anti-semitic, but the practices don't just come to an abrupt halt at the former Iron Curtain.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Well, you are Liberal. This is the kind of thing that state run health systems beget, which is what Liberals want. Pretty soon these systems become totalitarian and decide to do whatever they want to do. In this case, they made the decision for her in her "right to choose". Eh?
> 
> Crooked statesmen have become the crooked businessman. Throw the Iron Curtain back up and keep them inside. Same for the women. Didn't you see the movie_ Birthday Girl? :icon_smile_big:_


Just for your information, not that facts intrude into your thinking, the Czech health care system has been privatizing since the 1990s, and by the year 2003, was over 90% privatized. So the direction there is opposite of what you want to make it out to be with your 1950s cold war mentality.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

rip said:


> I take back the pass I tried to give you; you are an ignorant bigot!


Says, you. Look pal, I've spent plenty of time in Western Europe. All these Osti-types are infecting the place. I say, "Mr. Putin, build back that wall!" :icon_smile_big:



rip said:


> Just for your information, not that facts intrude into your thinking, the Czech health care system has been privatizing since the 1990s, and by the year 2003, was over 90% privatized. So the direction there is opposite of what you want to make it out to be with your 1950s cold war mentality.


Fact is, it was a Communist country. Communism is what the Liberal Left aspires to, but we do know it doesn't work as evidenced by the implosion of the those systems. It's the Bizzaro Universe, Liberals in the Eastern Bloc countries want freedom, Liberals in the West want Communism. Then there are the types like you who want both depending on the geographic region you happen to be situated in at the time. It's like having multiple personalities - schizophrenia.

Oh and by the way, why don't the Czech people give the Liechtensteins back their property. You can start with that Peter Van Laer painting. Like I said "criminals".

M8


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## red96 (Jun 26, 2007)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Oh, they also are ruining Western Europe. They treat wait and hotel staff horribly, yell in their cell phones, and their cleanliness habits are horrible. They like bathe once a week and hope that their cologne and/or perfume will cover up the stench.


I'm not sure if this is meant to be a joke or something, but this statement is horribly offensive. If I were in fact of Eastern European descent, I would petition for your removal from this board for what amounts to an extremely inappropriate ethnic slur.

Whether or not some individuals from the Eastern bloc exhibit these admittedly wretched traits, are ALL of them, as your post implies? When you state things in such didactic terms, you accuse every member of that group. I'm certain I could find SOME who might, just as I could find SOME Americans who do these things when traveling through Western Europe.

I submit that the stench of your post is more of a threat to civilization than any of the individuals you describe. I encourage you to edit or remove it.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

red96 said:


> I'm not sure if this is meant to be a joke or something, but this statement is horribly offensive. If I were in fact of Eastern European descent, I would petition for your removal from this board for what amounts to an extremely inappropriate ethnic slur.
> 
> Whether or not some individuals from the Eastern bloc exhibit these admittedly wretched traits, are ALL of them, as your post implies? When you state things in such didactic terms, you accuse every member of that group. I'm certain I could find SOME who might, just as I could find SOME Americans who do these things when traveling through Western Europe.
> 
> I submit that the stench of your post is more of a threat to civilization than any of the individuals you describe. I encourage you to edit or remove it.


Welcome back [email protected], things have been too quiet here lately IMO.

Red, just what ethnic group is "Eastern European"? I mean, everyone there is from the same gene pool?


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Welcome back [email protected], things have been too quiet here lately IMO.
> 
> Red, just what ethnic group is "Eastern European"? I mean, everyone there is from the same gene pool?


Yeah, really. It's not like I am picking on ethnicity. Last I checked the Ostis (Easterners) were as Caucasian as the Western Europeans.

So *red96*, go ahead and petition. The worst that can happen is that I get banned. It still won't change the fact that what I say is true.

M8


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## red96 (Jun 26, 2007)

Wayfarer said:


> Red, just what ethnic group is "Eastern European"? I mean, everyone there is from the same gene pool?


I believe I said "descent," not "ethnic group." So to clarify, I am taking exception with [email protected]'s broad generalizations about anyone who comes from Eastern Europe (and may belong to any number of ethnic groups).


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

red96 said:


> I believe I said "descent," not "ethnic group." So to clarify, I am taking exception with [email protected]'s broad generalizations about anyone who comes from Eastern Europe (and may belong to any number of ethnic groups).


Well it's probably not really an issue of descent, ethnicity or anything related to the gene pool. What it is related to is a 2nd World underdeveloped culture that all of a sudden finds itself free to mix with the rest of the civilized world, without having had the benefit of learning things like table manners, cleanliness, confining one's voice in public, etc.

M8

P.S. Have you read the "slob" thread?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

red96 said:


> I believe I said "descent," not "ethnic group." So to clarify, I am taking exception with [email protected]'s broad generalizations about anyone who comes from Eastern Europe (and may belong to any number of ethnic groups).


It's just a few posts up. You said it was an ethnic slur. If one is insulting an ethnicity, there has to be an ethnic group attached to this line of thought, no? Surely it is still fresh in your mind what you posted?


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> It's just a few posts up. You said it was an ethnic slur. Surely it is still fresh in your mind what you posted?


Now, now *Wayfarer*, don't paint him in a corner like that :icon_smile_big:

M8


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Says, you. Look pal, I've spent plenty of time in Western Europe. All these Osti-types are infecting the place. I say, "Mr. Putin, build back that wall!" :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Fact is, it was a Communist country. Communism is what the Liberal Left aspires to, but we do know it doesn't work as evidenced by the implosion of the those systems. It's the Bizzaro Universe, Liberals in the Eastern Bloc countries want freedom, Liberals in the West want Communism. Then there are the types like you who want both depending on the geographic region you happen to be situated in at the time. It's like having multiple personalities - schizophrenia.
> 
> ...


You keep proving what I said: facts play no role in your universe. You seem to parrot every right-wing rant you've ever heard and have simply become a nut-case, unworthy of further discourse.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

rip said:


> You keep proving what I said: facts play no role in your universe. You seem to parrot every right-wing rant you've ever heard and have simply become a nut-case, unworthy of further discourse.


Rip how many people have you talked to from the Eastern Bloc countries? What you don't understand is how many of them don't have much Rule Of Law? No rule of law and thugs run the country.

Look at the last election in Russia. I was watching a Canadian station on tv and this Canadian invest half a billion dollars in Russia only to have it taken away from him with guns and the Russian government was part of the problem. Laws without rules (enforcement) are worthless. Russia has tremendous resources, it has had some good education and yet Russia is a failure, because it has no Rule Of Law. It should be one of the riches countries on earth.


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## Fred Best (Apr 2, 2006)

The ethnic group in question appears to be Slav ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slav ).

Slavic peoples are traditionally divided along linguistic lines into West Slavic (including Czechs, Poles and Slovaks), East Slavic (including Belarusians, Russians, and Ukrainians), and South Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenians)


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Well, you are Liberal. This is the kind of thing that state run health systems beget, which is what Liberals want. Pretty soon these systems become totalitarian and decide to do whatever they want to do. In this case, they made the decision for her in her "right to choose". Eh?


So that's what universal health care leads to? Forced sterilization of ethnic minorities? Care to provide any documentation for this ludicrous assertion from England (these boards are teeming with anglophiles), France, Canada, Germany, Sweden, Japan, etc.? There must be lots of examples, given the millions of people living with national health systems.

To sum up from this and other current threads, people living in systems with national health have to wait longer for appointments, have to pull their own teeth out with pliers because they can't afford a dentist, and go without life-saving surgery, yet they are treated to arbitrary forced sterilization.

I'm glad I live in the real world, instead of the bizarre one you have concocted for yourself.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

You may find this inconceivable, but the Mod Squad has received a complaint about this thread. 

We don't want to receive complaints.

It certainly is not our fault that someone complained, it is yours.

Therefore: Should complaints recur, we will send a former KGB agent to your homes in the person of one V. Putin, martial arts expert extraordinaire, and defender of all things Russian. Including businessmen, bathed or not.

You haf been varned!

Complaints: NYET!


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

You're kidding! Nazis, Communists, genocide, intolerant bigots, the return of the Cold War and the Iron Curtain, and liberal totalitarians who can't wait to adopt universal health care so they can go around forcibly sterilizing people? What's there to offend anybody?
I guess some people just have thin skins.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

This thread feels very strange to me. So many complaints AK must moderate a bit and for once...I feel very certain I have not been the source of the complaints! 

Sincerely,
The P-Bomb.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

LOL

Maybe we should start a thread relating to individuals we would sterilize if we could get away with it and no one would find out.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> LOL
> 
> Maybe we should start a thread relating to individuals we would sterilize if we could get away with it and no one would find out.


Most of Hollywood.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

You see how easy it is to send Liberals over the edge. I can just see *rip* there fuming, and then going "Whaaahhhhh!" 

M8 :icon_smile_big:


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

My experience with Russians is there are a lot of good ones who left Russia because it is a dangerous place and lacks the rule of law. 

All the wealthest countries have good laws and are ruled by those laws.


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## ccffm1 (Jul 31, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Uh, the lumping applies to most former Eastern Bloc countries, not just the Russians, though they are the clear leaders. I'll give a pass to Poland and the Baltic countries. Oh, they also are ruining Western Europe. They treat wait and hotel staff horribly, yell in their cell phones, and their cleanliness habits are horrible. They like bathe once a week and hope that their cologne and/or perfume will cover up the stench.
> 
> I'm out there in the world and see this stuff.
> 
> M8





Martinis at 8 said:


> Says, you. Look pal, I've spent plenty of time in Western Europe. All these Osti-types are infecting the place. I say, "Mr. Putin, build back that wall!" :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Fact is, it was a Communist country. Communism is what the Liberal Left aspires to, but we do know it doesn't work as evidenced by the implosion of the those systems. It's the Bizzaro Universe, Liberals in the Eastern Bloc countries want freedom, Liberals in the West want Communism. Then there are the types like you who want both depending on the geographic region you happen to be situated in at the time. It's like having multiple personalities - schizophrenia.
> 
> ...





Martinis at 8 said:


> Well it's probably not really an issue of descent, ethnicity or anything related to the gene pool. What it is related to is a 2nd World underdeveloped culture that all of a sudden finds itself free to mix with the rest of the civilized world, without having had the benefit of learning things like table manners, cleanliness, confining one's voice in public, etc.
> 
> M8


Funny how a person so well-travelled can have such a narrow intellectual horizon.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

WA said:


> Rip how many people have you talked to from the Eastern Bloc countries? What you don't understand is how many of them don't have much Rule Of Law? No rule of law and thugs run the country.
> 
> Look at the last election in Russia. I was watching a Canadian station on tv and this Canadian invest half a billion dollars in Russia only to have it taken away from him with guns and the Russian government was part of the problem. Laws without rules (enforcement) are worthless. Russia has tremendous resources, it has had some good education and yet Russia is a failure, because it has no Rule Of Law. It should be one of the riches countries on earth.


I live in the Eastern Bloc approx. 6 months out of every year; I have apartments in Prague and in St. Petersburg, Russia. My grandson-in-law is Russian, my girlfriend is Czech. I would say I probably have a better working knowledge of eastern Europe and Russia than most of the people posting on this thread. What I object to is the gross generalization about the people who live there. Are there criminals? Yes, many. Russia is just a step away from being a kleptocracy. Much less so in the Czech Republic. However, this does not apply to everyone who lives there. Glittering generalities are stupid on the face of them; any student of rhetoric knows this. And this is my last word on this in this thread. You all may keep on with your inanities, trashing things about which you have no knowledge and less understanding. I fly out this afternoon for Russia and all of her smelly, unwashed illiterate criminals, many of whom I consider as close friends.


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## MichaelS (Nov 14, 2005)

Oh said:


> I don't travel through Europe nearly as much as I would like to, but I do travel quite a bit in the US (and in my former days as a mining and oil geologist, lived in a number of non-tourist US locations) and I can say beyond a doubt that there are quite a few people born in the US who act this exactly way: from yelling into cell phones (don't you just love it when out at a nice dining establishment and the wait staff have to tell people to put their phones away), to treating hotel and wait staff very poorly, and to be less than perfectly clean. I have seen this at all social levels. I don't think it is confined to europeans.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

ccffm1 said:


> Funny how a person so well-travelled can have such a narrow intellectual horizon.


Actually my intellectual horizon is quite broad. I am able to observe reality and tell the truth.

Verstehen Sie? ic12337:


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

rip said:


> ...Russia is just a step away from being a kleptocracy. Much less so in the Czech Republic ...trashing things about which you have no knowledge and less understanding. I fly out this afternoon for Russia and all of her smelly, unwashed illiterate criminals, many of whom I consider as close friends.


Well have fun with your Russian friends and kleptomaniacs, maybe they are the ones who pirated that oil tanker out of Nigeria. When the ship was finally found a Russian crew was manning it. And you can probably guess who in Russia probably stole that 727 out of Angola a few years back. I'll give you a hint, he sells aircraft, is wanted by INTERPOL and now never leaves Russia.

Tell the Czech kriminali/mafiya/government to give back the _Scene at Roman Lime Kiln_ to von Lichtenstein, and throw in the winery and the other property that belongs to him in the Sudeten. Who did they pay off at the ICJ?

Some of us hear know plenty. You aren't the only international man of mystery on AAAC 

M8

P.S. Tell your friends to keep their voices down when they are visiting Bodensee and Lake Como because they are turning these places classless.


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## ccffm1 (Jul 31, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Actually my intellectual horizon is quite broad. I am able to observe reality and tell the truth.
> 
> Verstehen Sie? ic12337:


Sir,

vielen Dank, ich verstehe Sie bestens, and therefore have to say: Start using your abilities, then.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

ccffm1 said:


> Sir,
> 
> vielen Dank, ich verstehe Sie bestens, and therefore have to say: Start using your abilities, then.


They are being used on a regular basis to flush out politically correct morons and cowards who are afraid to speak up and reveal reality.

M8


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## ccffm1 (Jul 31, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> They are being used on a regular basis to flush out politically correct morons and cowards who are afraid to speak up and reveal reality.
> 
> M8


You seem to misunderstand. I was talking about your abilities, not your self-righteousness and ignorance.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

ccffm1 said:


> You seem to misunderstand. I was talking about your abilities, not your self-righteousness and ignorance.


My understanding is clear. Now why don't you go ES&D, MF'er!

Or, how about adding something that refutes my thesis. Got any facts to debate? I've already cited some examples above of the unleashing of barbarians since the fall of the Soviet Bloc. So how about you use some of your small intellect to refute my claims? Got anything specific to defend with, or is your argument the simpleton's argument that stereotyping is not good?

M8


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## ccffm1 (Jul 31, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> My understanding is clear. Now why don't you go ES&D, MF'er!


Come on, keep at it! It´s getting increasingly obvious how urbane you are.



Martinis at 8 said:


> Or, how about adding something that refutes my thesis.


Contra principia negantem disputari non potest.



Martinis at 8 said:


> Got anything specific to defend with,...


How about Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Tchaikowsky, Abrikosov, Kasparov? The list could go on and on for pages.



Martinis at 8 said:


> ...or is your argument the simpleton's argument that stereotyping is not good?


Both. And since the latter is merely a simpleton´s argument, it will take you nothing to prove its inaccuracy.

And something you should consider for the future: While you might call your behaviour frank and honest and upright, be aware that a reasoning doesn´t get more convincing just by putting it bluntly.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

ccffm1 said:


> How about Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Tchaikowsky, Abrikosov, Kasparov? The list could go on and on for pages...


Evidently *ccffm* has cried to the mods, though he was the first one to have cast a direct insult by his "ignorance" quip directed at me.

Note how he avoids citing defensive evidence about the release of barbarians into the 1st World by the fall of the Soviet Bloc countries, but instead he chooses to cite literature and music greats, etc. from Russia. Note that these greats for the most part stayed in Russia in order to help it become a better country. Other than that *ccffm* 's only defense seems to be direct attacks, which is typical of Liberals when they are challenged.

The facts are this:

1. Prior to the demise of the Soviet Bloc, their kriminali and mafiya activities were confined within their own geography. Now they are global.
2. Since the demise of the Soviet Bloc their capitalist businesses are not just "business" but are linked in almost all cases to some kriminali or mafiya organization. In other words, chances are very good that if you are dealing with a Russian or Eastern Bloc businessman there is a crime organization in the background even if the businessman concerned doesn't carry a gun.
3. Former Soviet Bloc (FSB) countries are for the most part using Dubai as their center for laundering money. In fact Dubai is loaded with Russian prostitutes who are there on a regular basis to service the visiting mafiya and kriminali.
4. FSB women prey on Western executives. As an example male oil field personnel from 1st World oil companies are regular prey in places like Russia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Sakhalin, etc., whereby Russian or FSB women engineer ways to get marriage visas to the US. The ones that have already made it to the US have internet networks setup on how to dupe an expat into marriage, how to get permanent residency when here, how to divorce, and what "rights" they are entitled to with each milestone along the way. The network informs the ones in the FSB on how to get here, and tricks to use, including blackmail. At least the women who do get here, do learn about hygiene.
5. If you have been to Las Vegas, you will notice the influx for Russian women as "dancers", etc. Prior to the break-up of the Soviet Union, none of this was there.
6. Las Vegas wait staff have been complaining not only about the ill manners of FSB visitors, but their overall lack of cleanliness and hygiene. The same is reported in Monaco, Bodensee, and Lake Como. Prior to the break-up of the Soviet Union, none of this was there.
7. Most of the internet scandals coming out of Western Europe, especially Spain, originate from FSB residents now living there. Prior to the break-up of the Soviet Union, none of this was there.

The above are documented facts. Again, prior to the break-up of the Soviet Union, none of this was there.

Cheers,

M8


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## ccffm1 (Jul 31, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Evidently *ccffm* has cried to the mods, though he was the first one to have cast a direct insult by his "ignorance" quip directed at me.


First of all, I have not reported you to the moderators. In fact I wouldn´t want you to be banned from the forum, because I´ve actually enjoyed some of your posts.



Martinis at 8 said:


> Note how he avoids citing defensive evidence about the release of barbarians into the 1st World by the fall of the Soviet Bloc countries, but instead he chooses to cite literature and music greats, etc. from Russia. Note that these greats for the most part stayed in Russia in order to help it become a better country.


I fail to see how this undisputed fact is supposed to substantiate your claim that the whole former Soviet block solely consists of barbarians. Actually, it rebuts the allegation you had made.



Martinis at 8 said:


> Other than that *ccffm* 's only defense seems to be direct attacks, which is typical of Liberals when they are challenged.


Secondly, as I´m not American I have no affiliation to any particular camp. I´m neither conservative, nor liberal in the sense that I would favor any American party, be it the Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Greens or whatsoever. So your presumption is untenable at the very face of it.



Martinis at 8 said:


> The facts are this:


As long as you don´t care to present evidence for what will follow I consider most of it as pure value judgments.



Martinis at 8 said:


> 1. Prior to the demise of the Soviet Bloc, their kriminali and mafiya activities were confined within their own geography. Now they are global.


True.



Martinis at 8 said:


> 2. Since the demise of the Soviet Bloc their capitalist businesses are not just "business" but are linked in almost all cases to some kriminali or mafiya organization. In other words, chances are very good that if you are dealing with a Russian or Eastern Bloc businessman there is a crime organization in the background even if the businessman concerned doesn't carry a gun.


The consequent thing to do would be to stop doing business with them, then.



Martinis at 8 said:


> 4. FSB women prey on Western executives. As an example male oil field personnel from 1st World oil companies are regular prey in places like Russia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Sakhalin, etc., whereby Russian or FSB women engineer ways to get marriage visas to the US. The ones that have already made it to the US have internet networks setup on how to dupe an expat into marriage, how to get permanent residency when here, how to divorce, and what "rights" they are entitled to with each milestone along the way. The network informs the ones in the FSB on how to get here, and tricks to use, including blackmail. At least the women who do get here, do learn about hygiene.


A pitiful act of desperation on both sides involved.



Martinis at 8 said:


> 3. Former Soviet Bloc (FSB) countries are for the most part using Dubai as their center for laundering money. In fact Dubai is loaded with Russian prostitutes who are there on a regular basis to service the visiting mafiya and kriminali.





Martinis at 8 said:


> 5. If you have been to Las Vegas, you will notice the influx for Russian women as "dancers", etc. Prior to the break-up of the Soviet Union, none of this was there.


You mean they´ve taken the jobs from the American girls? Also, you have to question yourself who uses such service. Exclusively smelly foreigners, I bet.



Martinis at 8 said:


> 6. Las Vegas wait staff have been complaining not only about the ill manners of FSB visitors, but their overall lack of cleanliness and hygiene. The same is reported in Monaco, Bodensee, and Lake Como. Prior to the break-up of the Soviet Union, none of this was there.


I´ve heard exactly the same about Germans, French, English, Indians, Turks, Chinese and Americans.



Martinis at 8 said:


> The above are documented facts. Again, prior to the break-up of the Soviet Union, none of this was there.


I would like to think this has always been a problem. Maybe to a lesser degree, though. But the increase is not due to the fall of the Iron Curtain. Rather it is the result of globalization and technization that sometimes works against us.



Martinis at 8 said:


> 7. Most of the internet scandals coming out of Western Europe, especially Spain, originate from FSB residents now living there. Prior to the break-up of the Soviet Union, none of this was there.


Compare with above. Might also have to do with the fact that there was no internet at that time, but I get your point. Unfortunately, you don´t seem to get mine. I´ve never said that there were no issues with organized crime. Neither did I mind your opinion that it would best best to rebuild the Iron Curtain, altough I strongly dissent. My beef is about the maladroit manner in which you have stated it that was a sweeping attack and an affront to the Russian members on this MB and people like rip who are linked to this country by bonds of love and friendship.

Nonetheless I apologize for the ignorance sting.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

> First of all, I have not reported you to the moderators. In fact I wouldn´t want you to be banned from the forum, because I´ve actually enjoyed some of your posts.


Okay, then I'll call cowardice on someone else.


> I fail to see how this undisputed fact is supposed to substantiate your claim that the whole former Soviet block solely consists of barbarians. Actually, it rebuts the allegation you had made.


It is not meant to label the whole FSB as "barbarians". The issue is this, there are many who are immigrating to Western Europe and the US and the first thing they do when they get here is start criticizing. There are also native sympathizers to the Ostis who start criticizing their own. *rip* would fall in this category if he is a native American. However, what they fail to mention are the negative aspects of these migrations, i.e., the negative aspects of the escaping "barbarians". They also do not police up their own in terms of manners, etc., nor do they mention all the crookery when they talk about these "great" countries that they came from. A lot can be gained by simple peer pressure. Surely someone who visits a forum like this one understands about personal decorum, dressing well, and basic manners when out in public. Instead, even here the barbarians are defended. The main purpose of my posts on this subject are to bring these matters to the attention of those who do not get to travel as much as others and therefore who do not actually get to see the things that I am talking about, i.e, like the stolen Nigerian oil tanker, the money laundering in Dubai, the fall of Yukos Oil, the bad manners, the scammed marraiges, etc. The hyperbole is injected for effect. Most here are intelligent enough to see that. Except perhaps those emotionally attached to the issue in a 1-sided manner. Namely you and *rip*.



> Secondly, as I´m not American I have no affiliation to any particular camp. I´m neither conservative, nor liberal in the sense that I would favor any American party, be it the Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, Greens or whatsoever. So your presumption is untenable at the very face of it.


_Liberal _is not a political party, but a political philosophy. You have already shown yourself to wear that hat.



> As long as you don´t care to present evidence for what will follow I consider most of it as pure value judgments.


 But what follows is you simply validating what I said. Apparently you actually agree.



> True.


 Like I said. Of course it's true.



> The consequent thing to do would be to stop doing business with them, then.


 Another admission of it being true. And yes, I do no business with them, and quite frankly many US companies are no longer interested in doing business with FSB countries. It was a feeding frenzy at first, but now most have gone home - back to the 1st World.



> A pitiful act of desperation on both sides involved.


 Of course, but still another admission. Fact is however, they were not here before. Others were, but not them.



> You mean they´ve taken the jobs from the American girls? Also, you have to question yourself who uses such service. Exclusively smelly foreigners, I bet.


 I don't know that they have taken jobs, but nonetheless they are here. No, they are not interested in the smelly foreigners that they fled from.



> I´ve heard exactly the same about Germans, French, English, Indians, Turks, Chinese and Americans.


Oh I doubt it with the Chinese, but at Lake Como, Germans, French, Italians, Americans, etc., have always been there. The new FSB types are considered radically different. Both _The Economist_ and _Vanity Fair _had recent articles on this very subject. Plus I have seen it myself much more than any other group of people.



> I would like to think this has always been a problem. Maybe to a lesser degree, though. But the increase is not due to the fall of the Iron Curtain. Rather it is the result of globalization and technization that sometimes works against us.


 Seems to be more of an FSB issue. This comes from Interpol.

M8


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Evidently *ccffm* has cried to the mods, though he was the first one to have cast a direct insult by his "ignorance" quip directed at me.
> 
> M8


It was me bud...and I still think you are a _haole_. :icon_smile_big::devil:


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> It was me bud...and I still think you are a _haole_. :icon_smile_big::devil:


Haha! :icon_smile_big: You rat fink!

I'll be taking my _haole_ wife to the islands for our 25th anniversary in just a few months.

Cheers,

M8

P.S. We hear it is still pretty much an FSB Free Zone :devil:


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

The 'rat' was neither ccfm nor the p-bomb.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> The 'rat' was neither ccfm nor the p-bomb.


Doh! :icon_headagainstwal


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

rip said:


> I live in the Eastern Bloc approx. 6 months out of every year; I have apartments in Prague and in St. Petersburg, Russia. My grandson-in-law is Russian, my girlfriend is Czech. I would say I probably have a better working knowledge of eastern Europe and Russia than most of the people posting on this thread...


I would think all countries have many good people, probably by far most of the people, but Eastern Europe and Russia, at least Russia has, a larger percentage of lawless people than Western Europe. Russia should be a wealther country than most of the Western European countries put together, because they have great resources (oil, diamonds to a name a couple), but the government chooses not to have rule of law. Therefore, the honest people are defending their goods from thiefs instead of expanding their personal wealth. With rule of law and good laws you do not have to defend your goods because government is enforcing the rule of law.

Even in a text book that my brother has for earning his masters in management the first chapter explains good laws and the rule of law and how Russia is a failure. Even before the breakup of Soviet Union the rule of law is their failure, and they still lack the rule of law. The few that I have talked to from Eastern Europe said they left because nothing is secure over there and they want to own things without having it swiped away by criminals in or out of the government. Look at England; The land is not made up of wealthy resources and yet the laws and rule of law has allowed the Brits to become one of the wealthies countries on earth.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

WA, The only 'law' England, And I think properly you meant the UK, used in building empire was uttered by a very fine actor in a aussie movie called Breaker Morant. " We found them and shot them under rule .303" And before I tread further into this thread a disclaimer. My fiancee is romanian. She is fascinated by the Roma and was suprised we have small numbers here and that I've met them. Niether one of us likes poor hygiene, loud mouths or the state of world and personal affairs which delay our union. Want to know who I loath? Oregonians. They're all closet first or second generation ex californians who want to be the last ones to escape our problems for some idyllic, tree lined and salmon fishing Ellysian fields with melted Tillamook cheese dripping ignobly over everything. And then they come back down here in their rusted trucks looking for work among the wicked with little more legal or moral justification than a honest mexican ******* of the Reconquista. And they drive to slow because they think like our roads should be defacto wet . And YES,they stink. They stink of Blitz Beer, fishguts and poached Roosevelt elkblood putrefying in those truck cabs and on their dumb, no longer made in the USA Pendelton shirts. My God! give me a russian girl who sings offkey named Yasha Tselikovskaya making change at the gas station ( the persian quit) any old day. At least she has all her teeth.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> melted Tillamook cheese dripping ignobly over everything.


They have sqeaky cheese at the cheese factory. It is well worth stopping at for a tour if in the area.

They also mentioned jumping cheese. That I would like to see. Perhapes they will put a video up on their website someday.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

USCG Lifeboat Station Tillamook Bay Oregon, last commanding coxswain of lifeboat 36535, last in service 36 footer. Retired to a museum and given 44379 which promptly flipped on the bar when port engine seized crossing over cracking my helmet, knocking out engineman and snapping deck seaman's collarbone. Mast array torn off, port engine head cracked, bearings burned out, pistons thrown . Recrossed bar and took disabled fishing vessel in tow to Garibaldi. Crew began to complain where I was trying to dock them. Threatened toTurn lifeboat around and head back to Tillamook Bar until they apologised. Relieved of coxswain duty by native oregonians Co and Xo over fishing crew's complaint.Transferred to Naval Hospital San Francisco California 2 months later when I complained of recurring headaches and nausea. X rays revealed 2 fracture lines. Sees orange bricks of Tillamook cheese in stores and becomes violently ill.


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