# Discussion of inserts in 'dress' shoes



## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

I am interested in hearing from people that use good inserts (e.g. Superfeet, Powerstep) in their hard leather or rubber soled quality shoes (commonly called dress shoes in the US) like the high end AE, Alden, C&J, you know what I mean.

When purchasing shoes, do you size up for the inserts? If so, do you go up in width only, length (size) or both?

Do you find the insert interacts with the foot bed (cork, poron)? Does this matter if you are wearing inserts anyway?

The reason for these questions is that I started using Superfeet inserts in my casual and sport shoes a few years ago and really like them - much lest foot fatigue and pain. I have tried using the black (thin) Superfeet inserts in my AE and Alden dress shoes, and they dramatically improve the arch support and comfort, except (of course?) they make the shoes too tight since I didn't have the inserts when I tried on the shoes for fit. I have tried 3/4 Superfeet (well, the black ones cut down as suggested by the company) and the Powerstep 3/4, but while they do leave more room in the toe box, they also rub uncomfortably against the front of my arch where the insert ends. So I am thinking to buy larger shoes to wear the inserts with and I am wondering what people have done.

The height of the insert also causes me to have to loosen the lacings, which can be a problem with balmorals - has anyone overcome this with a wider shoe? I usually wear E in AE because I already have a little higher instep, could try EEE.

Another question, I find with the insert it raised my heal a bit in the shoe so more ankle is exposed. This may be a good thing for me because my arch is a bit longer than my shoe size (as measured by the side thingy on the Bannock device) and this makes my shoes a bit high at the ankle, perhaps because the larger shoe is also higher, which causes it the side of the shoe to sometimes uncomfortably rub my ankle. Anybody else have opinions about the heal raising issue?

I have seen that AE sells shoes with removable insoles - anyone tries those with these inserts? 

Anything else you can think of to discuss re inserts? I am sure someone will claim it ruins the balance of the shoe - interested in hearing criticism too.

Thanks!


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

"Good inserts" are called orthotics and are custom fitted to your feet by a Podiatrist. Things like Superfeet are more arch supports--and that may be all you need. I wear orthotics in all my running shoes, but many AEs and Aldens don't accommodate them well so I don't bother trying to use them. The exception is Alden's "Footbalance" line made for folks with duck feet like mine--I have a couple of pairs made for orthotic wearers that accommodate mine easily. AE does make some shoes with a green, removeable arch support insole that might well work. The "Ellis" if you can find them, is the pair I have and they will probably not object to replacing one support with another.


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## gavinchi (Mar 28, 2010)

I'm curious about this, as well. I recently had to start wearing orthotic insoles for a foot issue--I'm supposed to wear them "90% of the time I'm on my feet." The problem is that all of my AE shoes are fitted _without_ the insoles, so it's a real struggle to fit the orthotics in with my foot (even with the laces totally loosened).

Is there a way to have a cobbler (or someone) remove the AE's hard insole so I can put my orthotics in my shoes more comfortably? Maybe that question reveals my ignorance, but my feet are killing me!


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## amemovox (Jun 26, 2005)

gavinchi said:


> I'm curious about this, as well. I recently had to start wearing orthotic insoles for a foot issue--I'm supposed to wear them "90% of the time I'm on my feet." The problem is that all of my AE shoes are fitted _without_ the insoles, so it's a real struggle to fit the orthotics in with my foot (even with the laces totally loosened).
> 
> Is there a way to have a cobbler (or someone) remove the AE's hard insole so I can put my orthotics in my shoes more comfortably? Maybe that question reveals my ignorance, but my feet are killing me!


AE recently introduced a new line of shoes specifically designed to accomodate orthotic insoles. The styles look promising. You can see them on the AE website.


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## Tylersmcc (Jun 1, 2011)

*Have you tried the Pedag Leather Insoles for your casual or dress shoes?*

You should try the Pedag Leather Insoles for your casual or dress shoes. They are a thinner type insert made for dress-wear since these type shoes tend to be more snug.


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## Pr B (Jan 8, 2009)

*Birkenstock Blue*

I use the Birkenstock blue insert in my penny loafers and in my AEs (without the removable insoles). They're of 3/4 length and provide the support of Birkenstocks, albeit in a proper shoe. I've been using these for over a decade.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

I typically utilize some sort of insert in these shoes mostly to give my heel a break. The 360 welted AE shoes have no heel pad, and for my heel, the cork insole is just not enough padding. So I utilize a thin insole in these.

The Crockett & Jones I have come with a heelpad. However, after several wearings I have noticed that it has compressed and no longer springs back to the touch. So I have started utlizing a thin insole here also.

The three Aldens I have owned have a very good heelpad. After many wearings, it still springs back (at least moderately) so I have not had to utilize an aftermarket insole in them.

With all of that said, I am a pretty solid 10.5C in most shoes, but can size down to a 10D and usually be okay. The normal cheap rubber insoles that you can find for a dollar or two per package is what I was using, which usually works well but does tighten up the fit a bit, especially in the 10D's. Very recently I discovered that Dr. Scholl's now makes a 3/4 thin insole specifically for dress shoes. I bought a pair two weeks ago and am very happy so far with the product. Lots of heel comfort and thin enough to work in all my shoes. They do tighten up the 10D's slightly, but less so than the full length cheapo version I was using, so I am very happy with it and plan to purchase 2-3 more.

Hope this helps.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

g.michael said:


> I typically utilize some sort of insert in these shoes mostly to give my heel a break. The 360 welted AE shoes have no heel pad, and for my heel, the cork insole is just not enough padding. So I utilize a thin insole in these.
> 
> The Crockett & Jones I have come with a heelpad. However, after several wearings I have noticed that it has compressed and no longer springs back to the touch. So I have started utlizing a thin insole here also.
> 
> ...


I know everyone's experience differs, but I have to tell you from my experience treating a LOT of feet and ankles medically and surgically for more than 25 years, that I have yet to see any Dr. Scholl product that I believe is worth the price of the packaging.

Unless someone needs ONLY mild cushioning, and I mean "mild" cushioning, with literally no support of any real value, than I would categorically recommend anyone avoid purchasing any Dr. Scholl insert.

For dressier shoe, the 3/4 length PowerSteps are great, the 3/4 length Superfeet are "good" and the Pedag are okay. Naturally, as per cdavant's post, nothing can replace a custom orthoses, though many custom devices can be too bulky for a dress shoe. However, they do make "dress" custom orthoses, though there is a compromise regarding the biomechanical control these dress devices provide.

I'm glad you've obtained some success with the Dr. Scholl product, but I can assure you that in my significant experience, you are the exception and not the rule, and this is one product I specifically do NOT recommend.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

Thanks for the input^. Fortunately, I do not suffer from any foot disorders and it does not run in my family. My needs have been merely comfort. If I had a foot issue I would be more inclined to spend more and look at higher end solutions. For now, a little padding is what I need and the Dr Scholl's product seems to fit the bill for me.


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

I put a pair of Silipos
WonderCup™ Soft Silicone Heel Cups (Red Dot)
in my BB PTB's since I spend a lot of time on my feet going from place to place. I had the same problem; I tried to put in sole inserts and they take up too much space inside the shoe. The heel cups are a soft silicone that are very comfortable and don't give me problems with fit.


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## Avers (Feb 28, 2006)

One reason I see wearing inserts - when your shoes are wider than you normally wear. Then inserts may help with decreasing space inside and make the shoes fit tighter.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

I think the answer really has to be based on the reason you are wearing the "inserts". As cdavant pointed out, there is a significant difference between inserts and orthoses. If you are simply looking for some mild cushioning, any comfortable over-the-counter product that fits your shoe should do the trick. As also mentioned, Silipos and Wonderzorb make silicone based products for cushioning that many prefer, though they tend to be slightly thicker and heavier.

Any of these products may also be useful if shoes are slightly large and you need to "snug up" the shoes.

If you need some mild to moderate arch support, a quality over the counter device such as a PowerStep or SuperFeet are good choices. If you need support and biomechanical control, a custom orthosis is the ultimate device. However, are of these products will take up more room in the shoe, and fit may be altered and/or a larger shoe size may be required to accommodate the device in the shoe.


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## TieBar (May 31, 2011)

Pr B- When you use the Birkenstock inserts do you buy the same size or go 1/2 larger? Have you ever put inserts in clarks shoes if so do you add on to the size? I am a huge Birkenstock fan, but never knew they made inserts. I am off to order some right now. Thanks.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

TieBar said:


> Pr B- When you use the Birkenstock inserts do you buy the same size or go 1/2 larger? Have you ever put inserts in clarks shoes if so do you add on to the size? I am a huge Birkenstock fan, but never knew they made inserts. I am off to order some right now. Thanks.


Please note that not all Birkenstock insoles or footbeds are the same. There are different varieties for different foot types, and if you don't purchase the one for your foot type or the one you're "used to", it can be uncomfortable. It may not break-in similar to the one's you may have.


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## gavinchi (Mar 28, 2010)

Sorry to resurrect what seems to be a dead thread, but I still haven't had success on this front.

I have orthotic insoles which I must wear (not a matter of comfort) and they take up a considerable amount of room in the dress shoe. All of my tennis and casual shoes have removable insoles, but my dress shoes do not.

For anyone else out there stuck with orthotics: what are the options? The AE collection is complete garbage right now (2 styles? rubber soles? come on), and the only alternatives are rubber-soled or lack laces (johnston and murphy, etc).

DocD, is it really possible to get "dress" orthotics that take up less room?


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## 1WB (Sep 25, 2008)

A retailer you might want to take a look at:


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

I have worn orthotics, made by a podiatrist, beginning in my 20s. They have never caused real problems with shoes, but then again they are 3/4 type, resting under the heel , through the instep, where they end without going under the ball of the foot. Consequently they do not affect the toe box at all.

I would sit down and discuss the question of shoes with your podiatrist, ask if a 3/4 length orthodic can work for you.


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## marysdad (Sep 18, 2011)

I use the 3/4 length black SuperFeet insert in all of my dress shoes (Allen Edmonds and Johnston & Murphy). No need to alter sizing. They are a godsend. It was like getting a new pair of feet.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

You have 3 choices if you need any significant level of support.

1) PowerStep "SlimTechs"
2) The 3/4 length black SuperFeet product that has been mentioned
3) Custom orthoses that are specifically fabricated for dress shoes. These will typically be made 3/4 length and will also be made of a thinner material to decrease bulk, be cut slightly narrower to make sure it doesn't tear the leather on the medial side (inside) of the shoe and will usually not have a rearfoot post. A rearfoot post is what is usually used on most custom orthoses to help control abnormal motion and correct biomechanical issues. It almost looks like a heel below the heel seat/heel cup of the orthosis, but tends to add bulk and often slightly lift the heel. In most dress orthoses, the rearfoot post is omitted and the prescription is altered to "build" the correction into the device, though there is some compromise in biomechanical correction.

Speak with your doctor regarding your choices, since he/she has the ability to address your concerns in person, and bring your shoes with you.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Always nice to have DocD lending expertise to all of us. Hadn't read a post by him in a while - glad he's back!


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

Check out Footshox.com


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

Regillus said:


> Check out Footshox.com


Once again, there is a huge difference between an insole that simply provides cushioning or shock absorbing properties vs. orthoses. A true pair of orthoses can provide shock absorbing properties while also providing biomechanical control and support. OTC inserts such as PowerSteps and Superfeet provide mild to moderate support with little biomechanical control or shock absorbing properties. So it really depends on your needs.

1) PowerSteps/Superfeet type products--mild to moderate support. No real biomechanical control. No significant shock absorbing properties. Will fill "space" in a shoe.

2) FootShox, Spenco, Poron, etc.---will provide cushioning and litttle if ANY support and no biomechanical control, and can act as fillers to take up room in shoes.

3) Custom orthoses---can be fabricated of a plethora of materials and have the ability to provide mild to significant support (depending upon the presciption), shock absorbing qualities (according to the materials used) and biomechanical control. Naturally, depending on the type and materials, these will also take up space and room in shoes and will vary depending on the composition.


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