# Allen Edmonds NOT friendly...



## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Yesterday (Thursday), just outside of Birmingham, I had purchased a few items at Brooks Brothers and decided to saunter down to the Allen Edmonds store to peruse their latest styles. At this point it is necessary for me to describe my preferred shopping attire; loose-fitting Ralph Lauren madras shorts, a Tommy Bahama camp shirt, and Cole Haan loafers worn without socks. I was not dressed to impress. I was dressed-down for comfort and ease of motion. That being said, I walked into the AE store and the two salespeople glowered at me and offered me a gruff greeting. They asked if I was looking for something. I cheerily replied, "Not necessarily. I am just wanting to look at what you have." The answer from them was immediate, "We have shoes." I could not hear any humorous inflections in his tone. I looked around for some taupe bucks and, not finding any, asked if they carried them. The curt reply, "Do you see any?" Flabbergasted, I started to walk out of the store. Not wanting them to have the last word, I looked at them and said, "I hope your day gets better." Without a pause, one of them replied, "This is a high-end retail store. You should try the Bass store a few shops down." I am not one to let rude people get the best of me. However, this was over the top. Should I call the corporate office or should I just chalk it up to random negative customer experience?


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## wwilson (Jul 13, 2012)

Was this at the outlet store in Leeds? I was in there a month or so ago and an older gentleman was the perfect host...let my wife fed our son crackers in the store while I looked at shoes...even gave me a catalog and gladly answered all my questions...I was dressed in BB 346 shorts and a RL polo...


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

drlivingston said:


> Yesterday (Thursday), my preferred shopping attire;... Cole Haan loafers worn without socks.... I was not dressed to impress. I was dressed-down for comfort and ease of motion. Should I call the corporate office or should I just chalk it up to random negative customer experience?


I'm sure you appreciate that when first noticing another person one's brain makes an almost instantaneous evaluation of that person. Of course, in making its evaluation the heuristics used by the brain include clothing. The reason we tell our children not to judge a book by its cover is that we all are, whether we like it or not, judged by our covers.

It seems you wondered into a place where "no shirt, no shoes, no service" has expanded to include no socks. It would be best if all store personnel, indeed all employees everywhere, were constantly reminded to consciously ignore any first impressions they may form, but the fact is that we do not live in a perfect world. When I find myself in similar situations to the one you experienced, I have the conscious part of my brain to instruct the emotional side of my brain to let it go, after all any feeling of outrage or upset harms only the one who allows himself to feel that way. The maxim, forgive them for they know not what they do, could well have originated with a intuitive psychologist. In any event its application can go a long way to disparate one's feeling of outrage.

With respect to attire, not only while shopping, but in all situation, one can be quite comfortable and retain complete ease of motion without dressing down. In the final analysis, given that on a daily basis we all come into contact with people who are not aware of their unconscious impressions, judgments, and prejudices, to my mind it makes sense, if possible, to simply avoid walking into such situations. Having walked into such a situation, you certainly are free to call AE or not. If you do, I suggest you call with an intent of simply letting them know so they can instruct their staff and not with an intent of simply expressing outrage, as outrage toward the ignorant is not becoming a gentleman.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes, the Leeds store. These guys weren't exactly what I would describe as "older". They were in their early to mid-forties. Believe me, I am not typically one to complain. Having worked as a Ralph Lauren manager for several years, I developed a keen sense of perception as it pertains to customer service and attitude. I have a feeling that my experience was not an isolated incident. J & M is opening a store in the same complex next month. Nothing like competition to bring out the survival of the fittest instinct. I wish both stores well.


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## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> Yes, the Leeds store. These guys weren't exactly what I would describe as "older". They were in their early to mid-forties. Believe me, I am not typically one to complain. Having worked as a Ralph Lauren manager for several years, I developed a keen sense of perception as it pertains to customer service and attitude. I have a feeling that my experience was not an isolated incident. J & M is opening a store in the same complex next month. Nothing like competition to bring out the survival of the fittest instinct. I wish both stores well.


I would pass on your experience to the main office. There is no reason for that treatment. It's not as if you were wearing a torn T-shirt with a derogatory slogan on it. Hip Hop shorts and a pair of unlaced high tops. You were wearing what I'll call "boardwalk casual", someone within their expected customer base.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Yep relay that to head office, thats just shocking.


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## Barnavelt (Jul 31, 2012)

Sounds like an unpleasant end to an otherwise fine day. The attire you describe doesn't sound low rent to me; although I am not a big fan of TB attire you sound like you were relatively well put-together for stroll around the shops. However, even if you were wearing an adidas t-shirt and stained board shorts you shouldn't have been treated so shabbily. Personally, I would probably just choose to forget about it and not waste my precious time, but if you did want these two to have at least some repercussion for their boorish behavior, I would call the store and ask for the manager. He would know exactly who was working that afternoon and would take the necessary steps to admonish them, I would hope.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> Yesterday (Thursday), just outside of Birmingham, I had purchased a few items at Brooks Brothers and decided to saunter down to the Allen Edmonds store to peruse their latest styles. At this point it is necessary for me to describe my preferred shopping attire; loose-fitting Ralph Lauren madras shorts, a Tommy Bahama camp shirt, and Cole Haan loafers worn without socks. I was not dressed to impress. I was dressed-down for comfort and ease of motion. That being said, I walked into the AE store and the two salespeople glowered at me and offered me a gruff greeting. They asked if I was looking for something. I cheerily replied, "Not necessarily. I am just wanting to look at what you have." The answer from them was immediate, "We have shoes." I could not hear any humorous inflections in his tone. I looked around for some taupe bucks and, not finding any, asked if they carried them. The curt reply, "Do you see any?" Flabbergasted, I started to walk out of the store. Not wanting them to have the last word, I looked at them and said, "I hope your day gets better." Without a pause, one of them replied, "This is a high-end retail store. You should try the Bass store a few shops down." I am not one to let rude people get the best of me. However, this was over the top. Should I call the corporate office or should I just chalk it up to random negative customer experience?


I would cut-and-paste your summary of events and send it immediately to the home office. There are always two sides of the story, but if your account is even halfway truthful, then AE has some apologizing to do for that location.

Assuming that you behaved politely throughout, I opine that what they did to you wasn't even the rude cold shoulder, but open hostility. No matter how you were dressed, there is no excuse for treating you in that manner. Please complain. If one of my kids acted like that salesman, there'd be hell to pay when I found out. It's not good business, and more importantly, it's just not how you treat a guest.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

arkirshner said:


> I'm sure you appreciate that when first noticing another person one's brain makes an almost instantaneous evaluation of that person. Of course, in making its evaluation the heuristics used by the brain include clothing. The reason we tell our children not to judge a book by its cover is that we all are, whether we like it or not, judged by our covers.
> 
> It seems you wondered into a place where "no shirt, no shoes, no service" has expanded to include no socks. It would be best if all store personnel, indeed all employees everywhere, were constantly reminded to consciously ignore any first impressions they may form, but the fact is that we do not live in a perfect world. When I find myself in similar situations to the one you experienced, I have the conscious part of my brain to instruct the emotional side of my brain to let it go, after all any feeling of outrage or upset harms only the one who allows himself to feel that way. The maxim, forgive them for they know not what they do, could well have originated with a intuitive psychologist. In any event its application can go a long way to disparate one's feeling of outrage.
> 
> With respect to attire, not only while shopping, but in all situation, one can be quite comfortable and retain complete ease of motion without dressing down. In the final analysis, given that on a daily basis we all come into contact with people who are not aware of their unconscious impressions, judgments, and prejudices, to my mind it makes sense, if possible, to simply avoid walking into such situations. Having walked into such a situation, you certainly are free to call AE or not. If you do, I suggest you call with an intent of simply letting them know so they can instruct their staff and not with an intent of simply expressing outrage, as outrage toward the ignorant is not becoming a gentleman.


-1

Kicking the saleman in the groin would be conduct unbecoming...

Expressing outrage at being verbally assaulted by a trained saleman for a highly regarded retailer is an obligation...


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> -1
> 
> Kicking the saleman in the groin would be conduct unbecoming...
> 
> Expressing outrage at being verbally assaulted by a trained saleman for a highly regarded retailer is an obligation...


+1

Back in May, I posted in a thread about "First Impressions" when shopping in high-end retailers:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...17403-First-impressions&p=1296100#post1296100

I'll post it again:



sbdivemaster said:


> Years ago (we're talking 30+), I walked into 346 Madison in a ratty Grateful Dead tie-dye and ripped jeans - walked out with a pair of patent leather oxfords... They did kind of look at me strange, but when I put it on my BB charge account, it was all, "Yes, sir. Thank you, sir."


Now, I would kind of expect the treatment you received during my visit to The Mothership, particularly given my dress that day, but that type of customer "service" is wholly unacceptable. I certainly would be contacting corporate to let them know that they have lost the sale due to openly hostile salespersons.


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## RGA (Jun 21, 2012)

Even if they were of the opinion your attire was "beneath" their store, their tactless, boorish behavior was unbecoming and revealed them as persons of far less standing than they evidently believe themselves to be. If I were their employer, I would want to know a representative of my company had behaved in such an unfortunate manner.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

The CEO of AE, whose name escapes me at the moment, is an AA member who posts from time to time. You might pm him - he's resposive, and he takes pride in the high level of customer service his firm delivers.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> -1
> 
> Kicking the saleman in the groin would be conduct unbecoming...
> 
> Expressing outrage at being verbally assaulted by a trained saleman for a highly regarded retailer is an obligation...


Here we differ. While not reserved for acts like those the Syrian government is now perpetrating, to my mind, outrage is best reserved for those acts that actually injure others. Perhaps the best example of how to deal with non injurious annoyances was the response by Ronald Reagan in his debate with Jimmy Carter. To something Carter said, that today a politician might respond with a loud self righteous display of indignation, Reagan simply smiled, tilted his head, said, "There you go again." and calmly went into his rebuttal. Rather effective, that moment won the election. When such things happen to me I call higher management and try to channel my inner Reagan. Seems to work.


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## avgjoeNatl (Aug 16, 2012)

*Do not go quietly into the night.*

I would concur with the previous posts. Unprofessional behaviour must not be tolerated. You should contact the corporate office and tell them what happened, as soon as you can. There is no way to know how many times this has happened to other potential customers.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

I do think you should PM "AllenEdmondsCEO" Paul Grangaard. He is a gentleman who would expect nothing less than gentlemanly behavior from anyone representing Allen Edmonds. In my mind, I would not regard this so much an injury requiring remedy as an act of kindness in letting Paul know something he would want to know.
Cheers,
Mike


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

While the individual who began this thread has every right to be upset it's also clear that his experience was an aberration.

I believe it requires followup with corporate headquarters in Port Washington, which I hope he has done. Anyone who had dealt with Allen Edmonds over a period of years can attest to the fact that to say "Allen Edmonds NOT friendly" is not an accurate statement about the company as a whole.


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## spielerman (Jul 21, 2007)

arkirshner said:


> Here we differ. While not reserved for acts like those the Syrian government is now perpetrating, to my mind, outrage is best reserved for those acts that actually injure others. Perhaps the best example of how to deal with non injurious annoyances was the response by Ronald Reagan in his debate with Jimmy Carter. To something Carter said, that today a politician might respond with a loud self righteous display of indignation, Reagan simply smiled, tilted his head, said, "There you go again." and calmly went into his rebuttal. Rather effective, that moment won the election. When such things happen to me I call higher management and try to channel my inner Reagan. Seems to work.


+1

We can't help how we feel, but we can control how we act. I never find it useful to engage in similar behavior that prompted my reaction.


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

I used to be in charge of delivery at my fathers firm. I remember going to one stop, and a lady told me, she was hoping she could make another change before she would accept it. Keep in mind this is high-end commercial printing. Once ink is set to stock, there are no changes unless you want to pay to start over.

I told this lady, rather flippantly, that it was too late to make a change. An entirely factual statement. She got incensed, and when I got back to my factory, I was told she had phoned my dad (the President of the company) and complained about me for several minutes. My dad called me in and said, I had to apologize on the phone. So I did.

What's my point? Sometimes when you are just another customer among say, a hundred a day, people can be rude to you. But I find the best way to protest is to protest with one's wallet. If you feel you are entitled to an apology (you are), then contact the manager and let him or her know what you've experienced. But you are under no obligation to result in another sale for people who are rude. Just because you want the product, it is not required that you purchase from those salesmen. Vote with your wallet.

Tom


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> The CEO of AE, whose name escapes me at the moment, is an AA member who posts from time to time. You might pm him - he's resposive, and he takes pride in the high level of customer service his firm delivers.


AllenEdmondsCEO

Paul Grangaard
President & CEO
Allen Edmonds Shoe Corporation


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

I wrote of a similarly disinterested salesman at the AE store in New Orleans on this thread: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...-Cap-Toe-would-fit-best&p=1316226#post1316226


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

I have been told that AE follows AAAC pretty closely.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

127.72 MHz said:


> While the individual who began this thread has every right to be upset it's also clear that his experience was an aberration.


You are probably right. Unfortunately, my situation was most likely not unique. Unique being defined as a single event. Aberrations are multiple occurrences at random intervals. This type of shoddy service does not need to be repeated. Looking at it pragmatically, I did not deserve the treatment that I received. I do not think that following the rules of common courtesy is being overly pedantic. It is not my goal for someone to be fired or punished with more than a verbal reprimand. Simple sales-etiquette training should be taught and enforced.


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

I have to relate a story regarding not judging a book by it's cover. Back in the late 60's, a local farmer and his wife went into the local Chevrolet dealership(West Texas). After looking for only a few minutes they told the salesman the would like to buy the fully loaded Caprice on the showroom floor. The salesman was elated that not only did it take them about 5 minutes to decide, they didn't even haggle on the price, and were going to pay sticker price. They paid by personal check, and the Salesman went upstairs to the finance office to give the office manager their check. He mentioned how they were dressed, in old tattered bib overalls and worn out boots, looking also very "right out of the cotton field", and that they were driving a real junker of a pick-up, so the manager decided she should call the bank to see if the check would clear. When she was transferred to the bank president, he asked her, " Are they buying the whole dealership, or just one car? Either way, their check WILL clear. They have the money".
Just a thought for any salesmen/saleswomen out there...:smile:


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

msphotog said:


> I have to relate a story regarding not judging a book by it's cover. Back in the late 60's, a local farmer and his wife went into the local Chevrolet dealership(West Texas). After looking for only a few minutes they told the salesman the would like to buy the fully loaded Caprice on the showroom floor. The salesman was elated that not only did it take them about 5 minutes to decide, they didn't even haggle on the price, and were going to pay sticker price. They paid by personal check, and the Salesman went upstairs to the finance office to give the office manager their check. He mentioned how they were dressed, in old tattered bib overalls and worn out boots, looking also very "right out of the cotton field", and that they were driving a real junker of a pick-up, so the manager decided she should call the bank to see if the check would clear. When she was transferred to the bank president, he asked her, " Are they buying the whole dealership, or just one car? Either way, their check WILL clear. They have the money".
> Just a thought for any salesmen/saleswomen out there...:smile:


My last several vehicles have all been Toyotas. Not that I love the company, but after being ignored at the local GM dealership, and them more of the same at the Mitsubishi dealership, I figured out which place always gives me good treatment. I wasn't dressed badly, but I guess I have a youthful look or something. Over the last 15 years, four of my last five car purchases have been Toyotas (new cars), and they not only get the profit of the sales, but I also pay their somewhat inflated fees every time my cars are serviced because I have a good relationship with the dealership.

I really don't understand the salesmen in the OP's story. Do they suppose that people who wear business attire do all their shopping in business attire?


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

msphotog said:


> I have to relate a story regarding not judging a book by it's cover. Back in the late 60's, a local farmer and his wife went into the local Chevrolet dealership(West Texas). After looking for only a few minutes they told the salesman the would like to buy the fully loaded Caprice on the showroom floor. The salesman was elated that not only did it take them about 5 minutes to decide, they didn't even haggle on the price, and were going to pay sticker price. They paid by personal check, and the Salesman went upstairs to the finance office to give the office manager their check. He mentioned how they were dressed, in old tattered bib overalls and worn out boots, looking also very "right out of the cotton field", and that they were driving a real junker of a pick-up, so the manager decided she should call the bank to see if the check would clear. When she was transferred to the bank president, he asked her, " Are they buying the whole dealership, or just one car? Either way, their check WILL clear. They have the money".
> Just a thought for any salesmen/saleswomen out there...:smile:


I would call Paul and make him aware of the situation. AE takes great pride in their customer service and he would want to know.

I also have a story to tell about not judging a book by it's cover. A few years back a health care system was building a new facility and shortly before opening a rather shabbily dressed man requested a tour before the grand opening ceremony. The employee who acted as a tour guide was very cordial and treated him with respect taking time to answer all his questions. After the tour, this shabbily dressed man sat down and wrote a check for a million $ donation.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm sure AE trains and supports their sales staff. Unfortunately, casual laborers don't always feels as invested in their work as top-level employees. No large company is immune from worker dissatisfaction. Just as AE customers encounter the occasional manufacturing flaw, so too will they experience episodes of poor service. Paul may shoot for 100% customer satisfaction, but there are too many variables out of his control.


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## AllenEdmondsCEO (Mar 17, 2009)

*Apologies*

Mensa-

First, my apologies for the rude treatment you received in our store in Leeds. We do train our people in superb customer service. I literally receive emails every week thanking us for our service and commending people in the stores. Your experience is not our norm.

The Manager of the Leeds store is indeed the older gentleman mentioned above -- and I use gentleman purposefully. He would not allow the kind of behavior you describe. It seems he was not there that day. I will pass you experience on to our Head of Retail and speak directly to the manager myself also. Please know that you're welcome at Allen Edmonds. We've expanded our casual shoe offerings substantially in the past couple of years. Far be it from us to condescend to casual dressers.

Again, my apologies.

Best wishes,
Paul


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

^^ That looks like exactly the response we'd all expected. It's also the reason why, I think, a lot of people here continue to be such fans of the brand.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

hookem12387 said:


> ^^ That looks like exactly the response we'd all expected. It's also the reason why, I think, a lot of people here continue to be such fans of the brand.


Quite right: I wouldn't consider another brand for real shoes.


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## Billax (Sep 26, 2011)

Useful (and necessary) reply by the CEO of Allen Edmonds. Protecting the Brand is an important function of the CEO. 

My middle Son recently purchased a pair of McAllister Bals. The height of the sidewalls was slightly too high for his ankles. He wore them for a day at the Law School where he is a Professor. Rubbed his ankles and were uncomfortable at the end of the day. He called me for advice. "Talk to them," I said. He went back to the store and said, "I made a mistake. I wore them hoping they'd wear in over the course of the day. They didn't and the soles are scuffed." 

In my opinion, scuffed soles are beyond the point of no return. Full stop! Nonetheless, my completely ethical, but unsophisticated Son, went to the store where he purchased them and asked for another pair of McAllisters. The store agreed to exchange them. Next pair fit fine and the boy is a happy customer.

A Brand is a promise. In my Son's case, the promise exceeded what I would have expected. When any Brand exceeds expectations, it is noteworthy. The "promise" of Allen Edmonds carries beyond the CEO. It suffuses the company. I am the first generation to be an AE customer for life. My middle son now becomes the second.


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## Brandeis (Jul 6, 2008)

I would e-mail or write the corporate office. Notwithstanding your lack of socks, this is behavior that I do not believe AE management would countenance. Nor should they.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Brandeis said:


> I would e-mail or write the corporate office. Notwithstanding your lack of socks, this is behavior that I do not believe AE management would countenance. Nor should they.


As they don't - see comment #27, from the CEO of Allen-Edmonds.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Your apology is most graciously accepted. I never expected such a response and am humbled by your personal attention to this minor matter. I was always told in my customer service training that if you please someone, they will tell another person of the experience. However, if you displease someone, they will tell multiple people about the experience. I have confined my complaint to this forum and harbor no animosity to your very reputable company. It was a very uncomfortable experience for me as I am not used to being made to feel inferior. Unfortunately, I will probably steer clear of the AE store for some time as to avoid any negative fallout from the incident. I still wear my AE footwear with pride and look forward to many more pairs in the future.
robert


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## AllenEdmondsCEO (Mar 17, 2009)

*Thanks for the reply and know that we want your continued support.*



drlivingston said:


> Your apology is most graciously accepted. I never expected such a response and am humbled by your personal attention to this minor matter. I was always told in my customer service training that if you please someone, they will tell another person of the experience. However, if you displease someone, they will tell multiple people about the experience. I have confined my complaint to this forum and harbor no animosity to your very reputable company. It was a very uncomfortable experience for me as I am not used to being made to feel inferior. Unfortunately, I will probably steer clear of the AE store for some time as to avoid any negative fallout from the incident. I still wear my AE footwear with pride and look forward to many more pairs in the future.
> robert


Dr. Livingston ("I presume") -- Thanks for your gracious reply back. Please know that we appreciate being informed when we mess up. Being a highly human company -- handcrafted shoes, rapid growth, 42 retails stores, added store staff members new to the Allen Edmonds culture, 200 new employees in Wisconsin headquarters in the past 24 months -- we do make mistakes, despite all efforts to minimize them. Only when caring supporters and fair critics let us know can we focus and improve. Continuous improvement is a mantra and value of ours. I'm grateful for you bringing your experience to my attention. Also, we're striving to be The Great American Shoe company, which by definition means we aim to stand up to American ideals of good neighborliness, no pretenses, welcoming.... so I was especially concerned about your message. Thanks again.

Now that you know your size, please visit our website for special offers and new shoes.

Best wishes,
Paul


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## Ensiferous (Mar 5, 2012)

I am a satisfied Allen Edmonds customer as well. It is good to see this highly professional response above in a day and age of lie, deny, and blame the other guy.

Somebody somewhere in Leeds had some 'splaining to do when the CEO called, personally I'd wager, and took them to school.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

On a positive note. 
Called the shoebank today get some Neumoras on sale. Nate was out of town but Vincenzo offered excellent service and took care of me in a speedy manner. The service at that store has never ceased to impress!


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## zightx (Jul 10, 2011)

arkirshner said:


> I'm sure you appreciate that when first noticing another person one's brain makes an almost instantaneous evaluation of that person. Of course, in making its evaluation the heuristics used by the brain include clothing. The reason we tell our children not to judge a book by its cover is that we all are, whether we like it or not, judged by our covers.
> 
> It seems you wondered into a place where "no shirt, no shoes, no service" has expanded to include no socks. It would be best if all store personnel, indeed all employees everywhere, were constantly reminded to consciously ignore any first impressions they may form, but the fact is that we do not live in a perfect world. When I find myself in similar situations to the one you experienced, I have the conscious part of my brain to instruct the emotional side of my brain to let it go, after all any feeling of outrage or upset harms only the one who allows himself to feel that way. The maxim, forgive them for they know not what they do, could well have originated with a intuitive psychologist. In any event its application can go a long way to disparate one's feeling of outrage.
> 
> With respect to attire, not only while shopping, but in all situation, one can be quite comfortable and retain complete ease of motion without dressing down. In the final analysis, given that on a daily basis we all come into contact with people who are not aware of their unconscious impressions, judgments, and prejudices, to my mind it makes sense, if possible, to simply avoid walking into such situations. Having walked into such a situation, you certainly are free to call AE or not. If you do, I suggest you call with an intent of simply letting them know so they can instruct their staff and not with an intent of simply expressing outrage, as outrage toward the ignorant is not becoming a gentleman.


I hope you're kidding. It shouldn't matter how your're dressed as it shouldn't matter what skin color you have. Everyone should get the same service. I can understand that some sales associates get certain feelings inside their head when someone walks into a high end store really sloppy dressed, but that should *never* reflect the service the person gets.

No one should be treated like drlivingston been here, no matter what clothes you're wearing.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

There is a difference between asserting (i) everyone should be treated with respect and without rudeness and (ii) everyone should be treated identically. I agree with the former, but not the latter. As a gentleman who dresses thoughtfully and mindful of the sensiblilities of others I notice that I often get special attention or treatment. Whether in a restaurant or an airplane, staff do seem to treat better dressed folks with a bit more deference. I have no problem with that. By spending a little extra time to ensure that I look presentable, I'm demonstrating respect for those whom I expect to encounter. It is hardly wrong for that consideration to be reciprocated. While sloppy or slovenly dress is never a license for rudeness, such dress does suggest the likelihood that the person does not hold those with whom he expects to encounter in very high regard.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

drlivingston said:


> Yes, the Leeds store. These guys weren't exactly what I would describe as "older". They were in their early to mid-forties. Believe me, I am not typically one to complain. Having worked as a Ralph Lauren manager for several years, I developed a keen sense of perception as it pertains to customer service and attitude. I have a feeling that my experience was not an isolated incident. J & M is opening a store in the same complex next month. Nothing like competition to bring out the survival of the fittest instinct. I wish both stores well.


The Leeds store? Well they are just typical Yorkshire folk then. They speak as they find


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Kingstonian said:


> The Leeds store? Well they are just typical Yorkshire folk then. They speak as they find


Despite my current domicile being located in a fair hamlet of Cheshire I am a Yorkshireman born and bred, specifically the exuberant and cosmopolitan city of Leeds.

Eee by gum, tha kno'st.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Kingstonian said:


> The Leeds store? Well they are just typical Yorkshire folk then. They speak as they find


I'd forgotten all about Harry Enfield.

In an AAAC vein(*):

* Notice the sprezzatura - back blade of tie longer than front.

* Was his briefcase trad?

:biggrin2:

(*) Obviously joking.


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## jshastings (Jul 30, 2012)

*Better experience in Woodlands, TX*

I have to say that it's pretty commendable that the CEO of AE responded personally.

In my experience, AE salespeople have been really helpful.

Today I was in the store in the Woodlands (TX) and the salesperson was especially helpful. While they didn't have the shoe I wanted in stock, she was good enough to call a store that did (in Manhattan) and have them hold the shoes until I'll be in the area.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

I am not personally aware of another CEO who would respond to a forum and not simply pass the information along to be handled accordingly (although the former CEO of Hublot watches also was very hands-on in a watch forum). 

The OP's story confirms why employees should not judge a book by it's cover. When they do, nothing good ever occurs. On the contrary, a friend of mine was just hanging out with his kids and had recently left the soccer field where his son was playing. He was dressed in old gym shorts, a tee shirt with some company name on the back and sneakers. On the way home, he passed a very high end auto dealer. He decided to stop in and look around, and he and his kids were treated like gold, even though his attire was less than high end. After 20 minutes in the dealership, he subsequently took out his check book and purchased a brand new Bentley GT coupe, worth around $200,000. So the salesman involved was very happy he didn't judge this book by it's cover.

I have to commend the OP for keeping his composure. I was in a well known high end retailer, and witnessed a salesperson being VERY obnoxious with a customer. I happened to know the customer and he is probably worth about $150 million. So he went off on the salesperson, telling the salesperson he had no right being a snob, since he was making slightly above minimum wage,and WORKED for the store, he didn't OWN the store. 

I believe his reaction was unwarranted, but understood his frustration. The wealthy customer did not enter the store with any demands or flaunting his wealth, and did not find it amusing that an employee making barely above minimum wage was judging him. 

I believe the wealthy customer was wrong, but nothing good usually occurs as the result of judging a book by it's cover.


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## K Street (Dec 4, 2007)

DocD said:


> I am not personally aware of another CEO who would respond to a forum and not simply pass the information along to be handled accordingly (although the former CEO of Hublot watches also was very hands-on in a watch forum).
> 
> The OP's story confirms why employees should not judge a book by it's cover. When they do, nothing good ever occurs. On the contrary, a friend of mine was just hanging out with his kids and had recently left the soccer field where his son was playing. He was dressed in old gym shorts, a tee shirt with some company name on the back and sneakers. On the way home, he passed a very high end auto dealer. He decided to stop in and look around, and he and his kids were treated like gold, even though his attire was less than high end. After 20 minutes in the dealership, he subsequently took out his check book and purchased a brand new Bentley GT coupe, worth around $200,000. So the salesman involved was very happy he didn't judge this book by it's cover.
> 
> ...


Why are these threads always saturated with cautionary tales of rich people in disguise? Have we really sunk so low that the only reason we can imagine to be pleasant to another human being is the remote possibility that he/she might be a closet billionaire? Good grief.


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## nonartful dodger (Nov 24, 2011)

I think these stories are so prevelent because they reinforce the message that, as a retailer, you never know what a person is able or willing to purchase when passing through the door. It's not so much being nice to someone only because they have might have money, but treating potential customers with respect. Primarily, it's the correct action to take. Secondly, there's the potential benefit of developing a long lasting relationship. 

There are also plenty of recommendations on these threads because members have had excellent customer service. I would wager that some were wearing less than their best, but it was never an issue because they dealt with a respectful salesman. You just don't hear stories like that because they don't resonate as strongly as the millionaire off the street tales.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

arkirshner said:


> Here we differ. While not reserved for acts like those the Syrian government is now perpetrating, to my mind, outrage is best reserved for those acts that actually injure others. Perhaps the best example of how to deal with non injurious annoyances was the response by Ronald Reagan in his debate with Jimmy Carter. To something Carter said, that today a politician might respond with a loud self righteous display of indignation, Reagan simply smiled, tilted his head, said, "There you go again." and calmly went into his rebuttal. Rather effective, that moment won the election. When such things happen to me I call higher management and try to channel my inner Reagan. Seems to work.


I seem to remember a Reagan who took a microphone and angrily stated, "Mr X, I paid for this microphone!" I also remember Scripture that said that Jesus laid waste to the money changers in the Temple.

The OP handled the situation correctly in realtime and after-the-fact. He received a nice apology from AE, and I believe the matter is closed.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Both the Shoe Bank and the Costa Mesa store have always been nice to me. 

Now, how about a coupon?


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## dbhdbhdbh (Aug 10, 2012)

Not a long term AE customer, but my few interactions have supported the CEO's contention that they aim to be #1 in customer service. Outstanding.

I note that no company of that size can really assure proper behavior all the time from all their people. Perhaps a family business at one site. With sales staff around the country, perhaps at a franchise, rather than AE employees? No way. They can try, but you will get a range of employees. That's life. 

It is probably helpful to the company to know about the problem. However, as people here have illustrated, salespeople who act like that will quickly find out they are in the wrong line of work. Repeat customers will ignore them and go directly to the helpful staff. Their sales will be limited to first-timers who can put up with them. Certainly no one is going to make a point of dealing with them. If they have a future in sales they would be helped greatly by having someone explain this to them. However, the fact that they would behave in this manner in the first place suggests that they really should be doing something else. 

I would make a terrible salesperson, and I know it. I try to deal respectfully with clients at all times, but good salespeople are in another league altogether in their ability to connect with whoever walks in the door. Even if browsing, even if they drop in frequently before buying. By the time they make their first purchase they would be friends with the good salespeople, rather than chased out by the bad.

They are probably not bad people, just bad salespeople. It is a tough job, and they are probably failing at it.

So, say you by personality never should have taken a sales job. Due to the economy you took what you could get. It is not going well. People don't like you. When the regulars come in the store they check out who is available, and always deal with the other staff. Your sales numbers are terrible, you are not making much money, but have not found another job. You might be in a bad mood at work as well. Now add to that seeing an older, experienced, and successful salesperson who is doing just fine, in spite of the economy. Some would learn from that person, others would resent him. Looks like you ran into type 2. I would not be happy with the treatment, but I think I understand it.


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## LawSuits (Nov 1, 2011)

Many here have already risen to AE's defense with reports of superb customer service, and have lauded the CEO for his prompt and personal reply - so I am just piling on, but my experience with them has been quite gratifying, and this has made me a loyal customer. I just wanted to add my vote to those of the others on this forum who have enjoyed friendly and responsive service from AE.


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## MicTester (Oct 8, 2009)

I guess I am in the minority. I have supported them for the longest time, not in the least because of their effort to keep manufacturing right here in the US. 

But maybe I am on some blacklist with them. It has been one mishap after another -- suspect quality and oddly indifferent customer service thereafter. Not just one pair. I usually don't follow-up after my first attempt to resolve a problem. So I don't know how things would have turned out if I persisted. 

Decided to move on and ordered my first pair of non-Alden/-AE in a while and waiting for my box from Tricker's. Any day now.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

The boorish behavior described by the OP about the employees who probably wouldn't afford these shoes without the company discount, reminded me of the ubersnotty Barney's sales 'persons' in the old SNL skits-without the humor.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ This is funny. Well said.


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

I think the response from AE's CEO is an excellent example of why so many men remain loyal to Allen Edmonds, even above and beyond the excellent quality of their footwear.

That said, it seems like there are two basic principles at work here regarding basic service.

1. _If an establishment wishes to maintain a dress code, it can and should._ Indeed, I think a proliferation of stricter dress codes would be good for society. So if a store wants to say "wear slacks to shop here," by all means let it put it on the door or have the doorman inform customers.

2._ But if an establishment does not maintain a dress code, it should not treat customers like dirt based on their attire. _This seems simple enough: if you open your doors to everyone, act consistently. Ignoring basic principles of common courtesy is not a substitute for rules, nor is the absence of a rule a license for boorishness.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Titus_A said:


> So if a store wants to say "wear slacks to shop here," by all means let it put it on the door or have the doorman inform customers.


...and look for good deals at the "going out of business" sale shortly thereafter.


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## Hardiw1 (May 17, 2011)

The view on customer service and above response of Mr. Grangaard is what sets Allen Edmonds apart from "the Bass store a few shops down", not what the sales associate in question apparently thinks does.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

DocD said:


> I am not personally aware of another CEO who would respond to a forum and not simply pass the information along to be handled accordingly (although the former CEO of Hublot watches also was very hands-on in a watch forum).


Just in threads I've participated in, I've seen responses from the heads of Anderson-Little and RibbedTee.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I would recollect my follow-up visit... but, alas, I digress... I would not be held in very high regard on this forum. :rolleyes2:


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

drlivingston said:


> I would recollect my follow-up visit... but, alas, I digress... I would not be held in very high regard on this forum. :rolleyes2:


Did you wander by in a bespoke suit and ask "do you work on commission? Big mistake. HUGE mistake" and walk off with three porters carrying your shopping bags from other stores behind you?


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## Hardiw1 (May 17, 2011)

I have, since the start of this thread, actually been in the store in question. My experience was pretty standard. Only one sales associate was there who greeted me as I walked in and offered help finding something, which I declined. No one else was in the store, I looked around for 10-15 min. The associate never said anything else to me, which I actually appreciate. I hate when they ask you every 2 mins what you're looking for. I left and he told me to have a good day.


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## PhotoTechie (Dec 21, 2005)

I feel compelled to add my experience on here. In Atlanta, a new store opened about a month ago, and I ordered a pair of Randolphs, but they did not have my size and color in stock. I placed an order for the shoes and waited anxiously for them to arrive. When my sales rep discovered that the shoes would not arrive by the original date, he called to let me know. The store then performed a secondary search and was able to find a pair that is in process of being shipped to ATL.

So please chalk +1 in the ledger for a positive experience.


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## srmd22 (Jun 30, 2009)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> I would cut-and-paste your summary of events and send it immediately to the home office. There are always two sides of the story, but if your account is even halfway truthful, then AE has some apologizing to do for that location.
> 
> Assuming that you behaved politely throughout, I opine that what they did to you wasn't even the rude cold shoulder, but open hostility. No matter how you were dressed, there is no excuse for treating you in that manner. Please complain. If one of my kids acted like that salesman, there'd be hell to pay when I found out. It's not good business, and more importantly, it's just not how you treat a guest.


+1. Totally unacceptable treatment, no matter what you were wearing. And your description of your attire that day seems perfectly acceptable, anyway.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Paul apologized and everything is good. I have even had a recent great experience at the store. I highly recommend Earl. He is the epitome of old school customer service. He is a credit to the AE organization.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> Paul apologized and everything is good. I have even had a recent great experience at the store. I highly recommend Earl. He is the epitome of old school customer service. He is a credit to the AE organization.


Isn't it amazing how good customer service can lift your spirits?


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## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

I go there all the time, but I prefer the Bass store. I'm a broke kid and they have good prices for us. This isn't Leeds of England btw lol


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

When an issue like the one that prompted the OP is resolved successfully, can a mod either close the thread or edit the title? Seems wrong to have it keep popping up, implying that the company hasn't fixed the problem.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I wish that I could close this thread. Paul has been very gracious and I don't like this thread to be a constant reminder of past issues. I understand why an OP can't delete a thread, but I fail to understand why an OP can't close his or her own thread after its intent is served.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

It's at least a good reminder that internet postings live a long time - that anyone thinking of buying a pair of AE shoes, and doing a little internet research, "due diligence" as they say, will see the title of the thread and maybe not look too much further. I've pointed this out many times: members should please, please consider that before posting threads with such sensational-sounding titles. 

On the other hand, the damage, such as it is, is done. Learn from it, and move on.


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## NathanielD (Oct 18, 2012)

I recently visited one of the AE shoe banks in WI. I found the service to be average at best until I started asking questions about fit and possible pairings of shoes with outfits. The gentleman at the store just let me roam around and seemed uninterested in what I was doing. Then when I asked to try on a few pairs of shoes he livened up and we started chatting. I ended up leaving with a pair of cronmoks in navy.

If anyone cares I was wearing the following;
A red plaid flannel shirt
A navy vest (no down, I am allergic)
A pair of tin cloth pants
A pair of 8 inch hiking boots


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

drlivingston said:


> I wish that I could close this thread. Paul has been very gracious and I don't like this thread to be a constant reminder of past issues. I understand why an OP can't delete a thread, but I fail to understand why an OP can't close his or her own thread after its intent is served.


Or at least change the thread's title?


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

Mike Petrik said:


> Or at least change the thread's title?


 Agree


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## smogfarmgirl (Sep 18, 2012)

Agreeing with most, pass it on. Their attitude was uncalled for. If I were Allen Edmonds, or the store/regional manager, I would want to know.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

smogfarmgirl said:


> Agreeing with most, pass it on. Their attitude was uncalled for. If I were Allen Edmonds, or the store/regional manager, I would want to know.


See, this is what happens when the thread stays live. People don't read to the end of the thread to see the situation was resolved perfectly well.


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