# Tuxedo Questions...specifically a midnight blue tux jacket.



## NYtrad (Jun 6, 2009)

For some background...I am in my early 20s, small build (5'4'') and thin.

I've been toying with the idea of purchasing a new tux for the last year. Last week Banana Republic (Sorry for even mentioning that name here!) released their Mad Men line. Here is a link - https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/division.do?cid=5343&mlink=5001,3626906,5&clink=3626906

I was able to pick up the suit on the top left for half price and it will fit me like a glove after some minor alterations. I am also very interested in the Midnight Blue Shawl Collar Tux Jacket on the bottom right (I will also be able to get this for around half price, the lapels are the perfect width for someone of my build, and it fits me wonderfully). I have a few questions about formal wear that I was hoping someone would be able to help me with. I normally post on the Fashion forum, but there are a few Trad-related questions:

1. What is more Trad - Shawl or regular tux? (From what I have read, I think regular is more Trad, but the Shawl is not unacceptable)
2. What color pants should be worn with a Midnight Blue Shawl Collar Tux Jacket (black lapels)? I'd imagine it would be blue tux pants (blue with black line down the side), but for some reason Banana is pairing the jacket with their regular black suit pants. Is black okay or is Banana totally off on this?
3. If the answer to the above is "Yes, black pants are fine," can these be the banana regular suit pants, or should these black pants be tuxedo pants....once again, Banana is not even carrying the tuxedo pants.
4. Opinions on cummerbunds and Shawl Collar Tux Jacket (Shawl in general, not just a blue one) pairing. Trad, not trad, or just plain wrong?
5. When would it be acceptable to wear a Midnight Blue Tux as compared to a regular Black Tux? Is the Blue much less formal?
6. Are there certain shirts that should be worn with a Shawl and compared to a regular tux? The Banana model has a regular BD on, not a tux shirt.....
7. White pocket square with a tux (Shawl, Regular, Black, Blue....)?

To reiterate the above, if I were not getting an incredible deal on this, I would not even consider getting a tux from BR....The price and fit are perfect. If this were a full black shawl collar tux (with tux pants) I wouldn't even think twice about the purchase. I just don't want to make a terrible purchase.

If anyone thinks this is better-fit for the fashion forum, let me know and I will post it there also.

Appreciate any advice.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Don't worry about whether it's "trad" or not. If the fit is right, then it's good. A midnight blue dinner suit is perfectly acceptable - and favored for actually appearing black in lighting at night when black dinner suits take on a greenish tinge. All the midnight blue dinner suits I've seen come with midnight blue pants with black facing down the leg. Shawl or peak are fine, it's notch that's not favored.


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## unmodern (Aug 10, 2009)

Some quick answers

1. They are equally traditional, as long as by 'regular' you mean peak-lapel, not notch-lapel
2. BR is wrong, wrong, wrong. Except for a white jacket in warmer weather, a tux is a suit and should match.
3. As with all suits, the components need to be cut from the same exact fabric. This means the same exact yardage. Wearing the next-best-matching fabric is going to look a little off.
4. This is correct style. Cummerbunds and shawl collars, vests and peak lapels.
5. Midnight blue is an acceptable alternative at all times. It is arguably even more formal than black, since it better achieves the point of the tuxedo: maximum contrast at night.
6. Again, BR is wrong, wrong, wrong. Unless you're a true eccentric you'll want to stick with a real, formal shirt. This means bib front and either a turn-down collar or a wing-tip collar.
7. White would be best, I think.

If I were you I would ditch BR and look for a vintage tux at Keezer's or Bobby from Boston in Boston. There are probably similar places in NY although I'm less familiar with these. If you don't have a specific occasion upcoming that gives you more time to be choosy. Best of luck!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

1. Not sure what "regular" tux means. Shawl and peak lapel dinner jackets are both acceptable. Peak are considered to be the more formal of the two. Notch lapels are for business suits, sportcoats and blazers.

2. Black tie trousers should match the dinner jacket in most cases (exceptions include white and tartan DJs).

3. N/A

4. Cummerbund or waistcoat are both fine. The point is that your waist should be covered.

5. Midnight blue is rarer than black and some might consider it more "special." I don't know that that makes it more formal per se.

6. Yes, you should wear a proper black tie shirt with studs and cuff links. I would chose a turn-down collar for shawl.

7. Yes, on all counts.

Don't get a "fashion" tux, and especially not from BR. You'll get very little use out of it. By all means, try the fashion forum.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Using the picture of BR's DJ would be easy enough to play "what's wrong with this picture?" Of course it would be expecting to much for them to get the shirt, shoes and accessories right or even tuck in the pocket flaps,but to me most egregious is the shape of the lapel itself. Emaciated comes to mind.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

_General Thoughts_
I've never bought anything at Banana Republic, so I have nothing first-hand to report about them. Then again, you may glean some sense of my opinion from the fact I've never bought anything there.

That Mad Men line is awfully "costumey" looking. To my eye, it doesn't really look like what people would've been wearing in 1963. More like a parody. For one thing, the fit is too boyish (pants too narrow, jackets too short, etc.) They look more like a ska band from London around 1980. Maybe they should've called the line "Madness Men"?

Of course, you can control some elements by fit and alterations. One thought, specific to the OP, is that if you're in your early 20s you're presumably not trying to look younger than you are; and if you're 5'4" and thin, you're going to have a tendency to do just that. My shot in the dark is that you, in particular, may want to choose clothes that make you look older. Jackets that look like you're in the process of growing out of them are more likely to make you look 14, rather than like someone who deserves attention.

_My Useless Take on the Specific Questions_



> 1. What is more Trad - Shawl or regular tux?


As already mentioned, if notch is "regular," it's _less_ trad. Both peak and shawl are entirely appropriate, though I'd probably consider shawl more _trad,_ just because it's more evocative of a 1950s dinner dance or some such thing. To me. Who is by no means an arbiter of trad, or even tradliness.



> 2. What color pants should be worn


Midnight blue with black stripe. Black pants are not okay.

I'm going to disagree with others and say it is _possible_ to match black tux pants and a black tux jacket that weren't made together (and possible to try and fail as well). Black is, for the most part, black, and dinner jacket fabrics generally run the gamut from worsted to worsted. If you were, say, to shop at Keezer's, you'd pretty nearly certainly be be buying pants and jacket that weren't produced together. Midnight blue is more chancy.



> 3. can these be the banana regular suit pants


Given the last answer, I'd consider this question academic, but: only tuxedo pants with a tuxedo jacket.



> 4. Opinions on cummerbunds and Shawl Collar Tux Jacket


Both trad and appropriate.



> 5. When would it be acceptable to wear a Midnight Blue Tux as compared to a regular Black Tux? Is the Blue much less formal?


Same time, same place, same formality. The color (if it's really _midnight_ blue) is functionally equivalent to black, even though it's visually a little different.



> 6. Are there certain shirts that should be worn with a Shawl and compared to a regular tux?


Pleated shirt with studs and french cuffs. Straight collar, definitely, with a shawl. I'd say pretty much the same with a peak lapel, but if you want to go with some wort of wing collar it'd look jarring with a shawl lapel and not as much with peak.



> 7. White pocket square with a tux (Shawl, Regular, Black, Blue....)?


Sure. Not required, but it's a snappy look, and seems kind of trad to me. Doesn't matter what kind of lapels or whether the suit is black or midnight blue.


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