# Sports thread



## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Gentlemen, it is all starting to happen in the wide world of sports and I'm sure many of you share an interest (passion?) in these events. I thought it might be a good idea to have a general thread on what we are all looking forward to and how these events unfold.

For me, in no particular order, there is:
- Edmonton going to the Stanley Cup finals (huge news here in Canada)
- The NBA playoffs - the Suns are popular here since Steve Nash is a local boy
- French Open tennis - Andy Murray and the Federer-Nadal rivalry are what I will be watching, although Ms Sharapova also piques my interest.... Followed shortly afterward by Wimbledon
- Open Championship, the greatest golf tournament in the world returns to Hoylake for the first time in 40 years or so
- Tour de France - starts just after I leave France unfortunately - who will replace the great Lance Armstrong?
- And the grandaddy of them all, the 2006 World Cup in Germany - Brazil are favourites but there are any number of possible winners and the group stages throw up some intriguing matches. Some amazing new stadia too

I haven't been following the cricket and baseball doesn't interest me at all. Did I miss anything?


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## Mahler (Aug 5, 2005)

It's World Cup only for me, with a bit of Rolland Garros before the soccer tournament kicks off. 

Very amused by your pluralization of 'stadium' as 'stadia'. Haven't heard that one yet, and it certainly raised my eyebrows...


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Mahler said:


> It's World Cup only for me, with a bit of Rolland Garros before the soccer tournament kicks off.
> 
> Very amused by your pluralization of 'stadium' as 'stadia'. Haven't heard that one yet, and it certainly raised my eyebrows...


Why is proper grammar amusing?


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

gmac said:


> Gentlemen, it is all starting to happen in the wide world of sports and I'm sure many of you share an interest (passion?) in these events. I thought it might be a good idea to have a general thread on what we are all looking forward to and how these events unfold.
> 
> For me, in no particular order, there is:
> - Edmonton going to the Stanley Cup finals (huge news here in Canada)
> ...


Always enjoy World Cup. The intensity of play makes for a great sport compeition.

Won't follow the other events you listed. Don't care to watch most individual sports and don't understand hockey's nuances to enjoy it.

The NBA is simply unwatchable. I like basketball, but the complete lack of fundamentals in the NBA is maddening.

Am counting down days until American Football starts. Especially the college game.

Cheers


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

You forgot the Belmont! Perhaps not as exciting now with no chance of a Barbaro Triple Crown but still a nice race and somewhat sentimental to me as I grew up not too far from the track.

The World Cup should be fun but the whole bribery scandal involving Germany's edging out of South Africa in 2001 for this year's event still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I hope the US does well and I will also cheer the Czechs on.

I don't really care for the Tour de France especially after the way the French media went after Armstrong. 

Go Oilers! I still remember watching the Oilers beat the Islanders in 1984 and prevent Mike Bossy and crew from winning four in a row.

I agree that Miss Sharpova makes tennis more interesting though there are a few Slovak women (Daniela Hantuchova ain't too shabby) worth watching now - and not just for their game.

Basketball is my favorite game and as a diehard Mav fan (and I am not not jumping on the bandwagon as I was rooting for the Mavs when Blackman, Harper and Aguire almost beat the Lakers in 1988) I think we have a great shot to win it all this year. Of course we still have to get past the Suns but a win tonight would have us sitting pretty.

And the Mets have a 4.5 game lead in the NL East. It would be nice to see some October baseball at Shea, especially since this is the 20th anniv. of that amazing 1986 team. And even the Texas Rangers are competitive this year, a Mets-Rangers series, improbable as it is, would be a lot of fun for me.

Karl


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

JRR said:


> Won't follow the other events you listed. Don't care to watch most individual sports and don't understand hockey's nuances to enjoy it.


Cycling, believe it or not, is not completely an individual sport. In fact cycling is probably the toughest sport in the world.


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## Thracozaag (Sep 5, 2002)

JRR said:


> The NBA is simply unwatchable. I like basketball, but the complete lack of fundamentals in the NBA is maddening.
> 
> Am counting down days until American Football starts. Especially the college game.
> 
> Cheers


 I'm sorry but that's a common misconception regarding the NBA. Watch the Spurs or Detroit to see fantastic half-court defence, the Mavs to see a crisply excecuted half-court offence, or the Suns to see the beauty of fast-break basketball. With fundamentally sound players like Wade, Lebron James, etc. coming into their own, the level of play in the NBA is definitely sky-rocketing, as this year's playoff series has shown.
Totally agree about college football, I can't waiit.

koji


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

College football in my favorite sport, the Alabama Crimson Tide my favorite team since the days of Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant. Can't wait for those fall Saturdays every year.

Love Major League Baseball and the Atlanta Braves. I've been following them since they moved here in 1966.

After that, I enjoy golf, especially The Masters tournament. When you step onto the grounds at Augusta National GC you now what heaven must be like.

I've been very competitive minded all my life, and enjoy participating in practically ANY thing that pits me against another!


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

JRR said:


> Why is proper grammar amusing?


Agreed! From now on we should refer to them as the Ask Andy Fora.

:icon_smile_big:


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Ever since the Nets were eliminated I've lost a little bit of the passion in watching the NBA Playoffs (though I still watch just about all of the games) but I love basketball so I keep on watching.

Ever since the Devils were eliminated, I've stopped watching the NHL Playoffs.

As a long time Mets fan I'm starting to think that maybe this is our year and that the Mets finally have a shot, but I'm proceeding very reluctantly.

Finally, I can't friggin wait for the World Cup to start. I love soccer and will probably watch every game that's available on television here in the US. I will be rooting for the United States.

Have to agree with the original post in this thread though, it's a particularly good time to be a sports fan.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Beresford said:


> Agreed! From now on we should refer to them as the Ask Andy Fora.
> 
> :icon_smile_big:


Actually, both "stadiums" and "stadia" are acceptable plurals for the word "stadium" just as both "forums" and "fora" are acceptable plurals for the word "forum." While saying "stadia" is proper grammar, saying "stadiums" is not improper grammar.

EDIT: Edited for improper spelling of the word "grammar." Thanks gng8.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

The Suns are back! I missed the game but it sound like a Phoenix blowout. This one is going all the way......

Far more exciting, I just scored a ticket for the Brazil-Australia game in Munich, June 18!


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

I think soccer is of no or very little interest to most Americans. It certainly is of no interest to me.

Bring on college basketball.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

gng8 said:


> I think soccer is of no or very little interest to most Americans. It certainly is of no interest to me.


Ludicrous statement - soccer is the number 1 participation sport in North American and just because some take a perverse pleasure in disliking football will never change the fact that it is by FAR the world's most popular sport.

The USA even has a pretty good team, last 8 last time around. I'm afraid I don't see them doing so well this time, having been drawn with the Czechs, Italians and Ghanians (who I don't know much about but are reputed to be strong).

Tough group to get out of - and if you do manage to get out you had better win the group, otherwise its almost certainly Brazil in the last 16......

(For the record, I like American football a lot - NFL, don't follow college. I'm a Seahawks season ticket holder - yes, bandwagon jumper last year)


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

gng8 said:


> I think soccer is of no or very little interest to most Americans. It certainly is of no interest to me.
> 
> Bring on college basketball.


Hmm, this kind of got me thinking. I wonder if *most* Americans are interested in any sport.

I found one statistic that said that 40.4 percent of American households with televisions were watching the Super Bowl at any given moment. I infer from that (though this is not necessarily true - but very likely) that *most* Americans are not watching the Superbowl, the biggest game in football.

I also found another site that said "just under half of Americans consider themselves to be baseball fans." So *most* Americans are not baseball fans either.

Another site said that "41 percent of Americans are fans of college basketball." So, *most* Americans are not fans of college basketball.

So, if *most* Americans are not fans of baseball, football, or college basketball, you can't expect most Americans to be fans of soccer as well.

Here's another interesting fact. I was present at an event that drew the largest ever crowd at Giants Stadium (home of the NY Giants football team) for a sporting event with over 88,000 spectators. This event was a soccer match between Manchester United and Juventus. That's right, a soccer crowd set a record for attendance at Giants stadium (by the way, this isn't meant to be disparaging to Big Blue, I love the Giants).

PS: In all my research of statistic I also found that 91% of Americans eat at least one pizza a month, so it is safe to say that *most* Americans like pizza)


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## Thracozaag (Sep 5, 2002)

I realize soccer is a cultural phenomenon in the rest of the world and that it's enjoyed by millions of kids (hell, I even loved playing it as a kid), but I must admit that I can barely get through a match without closing my eyes. Perhaps if they got rid of that silly offsides rule, I could actually get into it. The only soccer I enjoy watching is highlight reels of the great players from the past.

koji


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Thracozaag said:


> I'm sorry but that's a common misconception regarding the NBA. Watch the Spurs or Detroit to see fantastic half-court defence, the Mavs to see a crisply excecuted half-court offence, or the Suns to see the beauty of fast-break basketball. With fundamentally sound players like Wade, Lebron James, etc. coming into their own, the level of play in the NBA is definitely sky-rocketing, as this year's playoff series has shown.
> Totally agree about college football, I can't waiit.
> 
> koji


Koji,

I'll try again this weekend to watch a game. Already tried when the Cavs were still alive. (Grew up in Cleveland, so have a rooting interest) Always ended up turning the TV off, usually after seeing the 5th or 6th brick in a row.

Will try again. Just miss those games from the 80s.

Cheers


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

GT3 said:


> Cycling, believe it or not, is not completely an individual sport. In fact cycling is probably the toughest sport in the world.


Cycling is very tough, speed and endurance. Nothing but respect for it. Just can't watch it. Part of why is the lack of a rooting interest in a team.

Cheers


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Beresford said:


> Agreed! From now on we should refer to them as the Ask Andy Fora.
> 
> :icon_smile_big:


I guess I should apologize to Mahler. I am sorry. Was in bad mood yesterday morning. Was merely trying to be a smart ass.

Cheers


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

gng8 said:


> I think soccer is of no or very little interest to most Americans. It certainly is of no interest to me.
> 
> Bring on college basketball.


Watch a couple of the big time matches in this year's World Cup. If Brazil plays Argentina, Italy vs. Germany etc... you'll see that the intensity matches Duke vs. NC, Kentucky vs. Louisville, etc, and that makes for great sports watching.

Cheers


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

JRR said:


> Watch a couple of the big time matches in this year's World Cup. If Brazil plays Argentina, Italy vs. Germany etc... you'll see that the intensity matches Duke vs. NC, Kentucky vs. Louisville, etc, and that makes for great sports watching.


No disrepect to college basketball but the soccer match ups you refer to are so far beyond the scale of a college basketball game as to make the comparison useless.

College basketball is fun for sure, I won my office bracket this year and enjoyed the games I watched. But most of these kids will never play pro and most of their fans seem to identify with them because of local or college allegiances.

Brazil playing Argentina or England taking on Germany in the late stages of the World Cup is a completely different kettle of fish. Here you have men at the absolute peak of their sport representing entire countries and playing in front of a global audience in 10 figures.

Intensity? Victory means national euphoria. Defeat? Well, I once had to comfort an extremely beautiful, weeping Italian 17 year old after her team were knocked out in the 1990 semi finals by Argentina (I was only 20 by the way....). Suffice to say that it took all my considerable powers of consoling to make her happy again (thanks Claudio Cannigia, scorer of the Argentine winner that night!)


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

gmac said:


> No disrepect to college basketball but the soccer match ups you refer to are so far beyond the scale of a college basketball game as to make the comparison useless.
> 
> College basketball is fun for sure, I won my office bracket this year and enjoyed the games I watched. But most of these kids will never play pro and most of their fans seem to identify with them because of local or college allegiances.
> 
> ...


I agree, the World Cup is a much bigger stage. Was just trying to provide an analogy to help the sell the virtues of soccer.

LOL at your "consoling" memory. I am sure many a young guy can use the World Cup matches to have opportunites to console young ladies.

Cheers


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Can we be sure that GMAC did not slip a bribe to the Italian goalie??

HHMMMMM.

She's so lucky you were nearby to come to her aid!


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Aye, that was quite a night! I forget her name but I can picture her face like it was yesterday. And then Germany beat England the next night - classic stuff! 

The student hall of residence I lived in was right in the centre of Edinburgh and they used it as a residence for visiting students in the summer - I was hired as a doorman/receptionist/concierge/whatever for the summer. It was tremendous - for the three months I was there we had Italian teenagers for a month and University of California summer school students for two months. Pouting dark haired beauties for a month, blonde and tanned giants for two (rich too, most of 'em). All needing a guide/interpreter/whatever. Glory days!

Karl, regarding the Belmont, I've never neen able to get into American racing and I think the reason is that the dirt tracks the horses run on here seem so barren compared to the turf back home. However, I have an invite to the Kentucky Derby next year so I will reserve judgement. No question about the quality of horses though.

In response to Thracozaag's point about offside in soccer, of course it can be frustrating but breaking the offside trap is one of the great arts of the striker (and the men who feed them). If you like watching old stuff then watch Romario in 1994, he was a master at beating the trap.

And to whoever it was that said they didn't get the nuances of hockey, I didn't realize hockey had nuances? Hit 'em hard and plant yoursel in front of the goalie - done right it can be beautiful (although ugly hockey is horrible - the new rules have definetely helped).


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

gmac said:


> Open Championship, the greatest golf tournament in the world returns to Hoylake for the first time in 40 years or so
> Did I miss anything?


Of course ;-) https://www.masters.org

Except for when at St. Andrews the British Open is usually a snorer. Oldest? yes Greatest? not even close

I think conventional wisdom ranks the four majors: the Masters, the US Open, the British Open, and the PGA.

A lot of 'one hit wonders' have won British Opens and the last two were Americans that barely kept a PGA card: Todd Hamilton and Ben Curtis.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

ksinc said:


> I think conventional wisdom ranks the four majors: the Masters, the US Open, the British Open, and the PGA.


Ha! Convential wisdom in Georgia maybe, not anywhere else!

Ranking of the majors is as follows:

1. The Open Championship (please note, not the British Open)

2. The Masters (No no-name winners? Duh, obviously, no no-name players at an invitational competition, a fact that leaves it well behind the Open even disregarding the Open's far superior history. That odious green jacket has to rank as one of the goofiest prizes too)

3. US Open

4. USPGA


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

Can you not even get along when discussing sports? My thoughts are with that poor Italian girl - how despondent she must have been to seek solace in a loudmouthed Scottish socialist! Just kidding.....

Karl


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

My thoughts are with her too.........

And who doesn't disagree when discussing sport?


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

You guys don't seriously consider Golf a sport do you?


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

gmac said:


> My thoughts are with her too.........


Does Mrs. Gmac know this?

Karl


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

GT3 said:


> You guys don't seriously consider Golf a sport do you?


Only when you have to time your shot just so in order to get it in King Kong's mouth when his jaw is open.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

I'm sure Mrs Mac's thoughts occasionally drift to the passions of her youth.

However, she doesn't tell and I don't ask, and, as long as it is not during the capital act, then I don't mind at all.

But, to get back on topic, Andriy Shevchenko, AC Milan's superstar Ukrainian forward, has just signed for Chelsea for GBP 30 million. Sheva has probably been the best forward in the world over the last 10 years and it will be great to see him in England (cause we get live English football on the telly here every week).

He follows hard on the heels of Michael Ballack's arrival from Bayern Munich a couple of weeks ago.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

gmac said:


> Ha! Convential wisdom in Georgia maybe, not anywhere else!
> 
> Ranking of the majors is as follows:
> 
> ...


Me and every Professional golfer and golf writer/magazine.
"The golfing world recognizes four contests as the most important tournaments each year--the Masters, the U.S. Open, the British Open, and the Professional Golfers' Association (PGA) tournament. Each of these competitions has a long history."

They always ask the Pros questions like if you could only win one major which one would you like to win? and they almost always say the Masters. Some Americans say the US Open, but that is an extreme minority.

Do you even play golf?


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

gmac said:


> I'm sure Mrs Mac's thoughts occasionally drift to the passions of her youth.
> 
> However, she doesn't tell and I don't ask, and, as long as it is not during the capital act, then I don't mind at all.
> 
> ...


I think Thierry Henry will have something to say about that, maybe even Ruud van Nistelrooy. But Chelsea will be very hard to beat with Roman throwing money around like that. Growing up in Germany I miss the passion and love for football here in the states.


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## Thracozaag (Sep 5, 2002)

JRR said:


> Koji,
> 
> I'll try again this weekend to watch a game. Already tried when the Cavs were still alive. (Grew up in Cleveland, so have a rooting interest) Always ended up turning the TV off, usually after seeing the 5th or 6th brick in a row.
> 
> ...


 It's a great time to be a Cavs fan...you have a LOT to look forward to.

koji


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## Thracozaag (Sep 5, 2002)

gmac said:


> In response to Thracozaag's point about offside in soccer, of course it can be frustrating but breaking the offside trap is one of the great arts of the striker (and the men who feed them). If you like watching old stuff then watch Romario in 1994, he was a master at beating the trap.


 If people want to cherry pick, why not let them? (and you're right, Romario was phenomenal).

koji


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Btw, speaking of soccer, did anybody catch the FA Cup final? That's got to be the best soccer match I've ever seen in my life. When Gerrard hit that goal in extra time from 35 yards out to tie the match I almost shit in my pants.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Thracozaag said:


> If people want to cherry pick, why not let them? (and you're right, Romario was phenomenal).
> 
> koji


Well, it would make soccer a lot less, I don't know, I guess "beautiful" is the best word I can think of, and a lot more nitty gritty. Instead of having strikers make flashy goals from superb crosses by beating the trap you would have guys that just hang around in front of the net and get tossed long balls. It would basically change the entire character of the game.

I've played indoor soccer where there is no offsides and you basically just have people that sit by the goal and wait to be fed a lucky ball that they get into the net from 2 feet away. It's not much to look at.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

ksinc said:


> Me and every Professional golfer and golf writer/magazine.
> "The golfing world recognizes four contests as the most important tournaments each year--the Masters, the U.S. Open, the British Open, and the Professional Golfers' Association (PGA) tournament. Each of these competitions has a long history."


Dream on pal.

Oh, by the way, quoting yourself does not count as a recognized source. Particularly when you clearly don't know what you are talking about.



ksinc said:


> They always ask the Pros questions like if you could only win one major which one would you like to win? and they almost always say the Masters. Some Americans say the US Open, but that is an extreme minority.
> 
> Do you even play golf?


That is one of the stupidest statements I have ever heard in my life. I'd say about 1 in 10 non-US golfers would say the Masters, all the rest the Open. Americans would probably be about 50/50, although all would recognize the majesty of the Open.

Don't get me wrong, the Masters is a great competition but its like comparing the athletics world championships to the Olympics - one is great to win, the other makes you a legend (can you guess which is which?).

Do I play golf? Well, I won't get into making daft internet claims about my prowess but I am a member of a club which hosts Open qualifying when the Open is at Muirfield, one of my mates is a relatively big wheel at the R&A* and I have had golf articles published in national newspapers. Oh, and I'm Scottish.

I'm pretty confident I've forgotten more about golf than you will ever know. If, indeed, you ever learn anything.

* that's the Royal and Ancient Golf Society of St Andrews - just for ksinc's benefit. It's in St Andrews.

That's in Scotland, again for ksinc


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Thracozaag said:


> If people want to cherry pick, why not let them?


Stretches the game out too far, kills creative midfield play, to many long balls into the box - is just ugly.

They have made changes to the offside rule recently to aid the forward - I think the balance is about right. Hopefully we will see some great forward play in the World Cup and some great goals.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

Italian soccer can get very ugly, in fact their obsessive defensive displays have a name - Catenaccio. The italians score a goal then all eleven players rush back and defend the rest of the game. Ugly soccer pure and simple.

Soccer, while the object is to score, is not just about scoring. The ball has to move in a creative and athletic fashion towards the opposing goal. To understand that nuance a "nill nill" game could be as fascinating as four four tie.

Each country has a different style, and it is noticeable even to the novice. The ball is not just kicked around, there is a "cultural" logic in the game.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

I think you are letting your infamous hostility towards the US cloud the issue. For American golfers the Masters is the ultimate victory. For British golfers clearly the British Open (this how the tournament is known here so this how I will refer to it, given the fact you come from a country that has a unique way to pronounce Quixote take it easy!) is the ultimate victory. For international golfers I suppose some view the Masters and some view the British Open as the ultimate golfing event. I don't think there is a correct view in this matter but I will say that I think most American golfing fans have far more respect for the British Open than you seem to have for the Masters. 

Personally I like the Ryder Cup - this year's match in Kildaire should be fun.

And while the World Cup is fun it lacks the poetry of the World Series. The pace of the game and the drama that baseball can produce in late October, when the air is crisp, make for high art. But I think one has to be American to fully appreciate this. Btw did anyone read the Frank Foer book on soccer and globalization?

Karl


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

gentlemen,

i guess this thread is as good as any with regards to my question. you see, my friends and i were discussing about sports the other night and our discussion led to the topic of earvin "magic" johnson. 

to put it nicely, some of my mates believe that him declaring himself to be hiv positive is a farce, and of course a lot of unfounded rumors were thrown about as to why he did that. the main argument there is if he is hiv positive, then why hasnt he contracted aids? are the drugs available right now able to supress that for 15+ years? 

i have no intention to offend or hurt anybody. it was a question brought about without malice. it was a topic that we tried to discuss intelligently but ended without a good answer.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

acidicboy said:


> gentlemen,
> 
> i guess this thread is as good as any with regards to my question. you see, my friends and i were discussing about sports the other night and our discussion led to the topic of earvin "magic" johnson.
> 
> ...


Probably because all of you were speculating without anybody knowing what is really going on. I have often wondered about the same thing, so if anyone has a definite answer, I'd like to know.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

*Good work!*

Without actually responding to any of the posts above, I'd just like to say that I've enjoyed this thread a lot and look forward to it continuing. I'm sure that as the days pass we'll switch topics as the games move on and that is great.

Here is a (stupid) question - if one makes believe about your life, are you:
- a James Bond style spy
- a Marvel comics style hero - superman or something
- an athletic wonder (Masters or Open)

For me, I always dreamed of breaking the tape at the Olympics, scoring for Scotland against England at Wembley, even now I tear up a little at the thought of lifting the Stanley Cup (as a new Canadian). Scoring a six against Australia in the Ashes. Making a match wining tackle against a 
New Zealand flanker.

Or is it just me?


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## Thracozaag (Sep 5, 2002)

Thanks for clearing up the off-sides rule; most people I ask that question to just shrug their shoulders and mumble something about tradition.

koji


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Karl - Yes, he's clouded again and confuses insults for debate. No Problem.

Gmac - It also has to do that the US Open plays the toughest courses and the Masters has the toughest fields. The only tougher fields are at the TPC at Sawgrass. The greatest, most prestigious, most highly competitive golf tournament in the world is - The Masters. 

If you look at Int'l players like Ernie (he has a British now too) and Retief who have both won 2 US Opens they are in the Top in the World. While Hamilton and Curtis who each won a British are barely keeping their card. And you have Paul Lawrie, and guys like Van de Velde and Ian Baker Finch as perenial British contenders. There's nothing like that at the Masters or the US Open. Guys like Jose Maria, Faldo, Seve, Langer, Vijay all win at Augusta. Winning at Augusta is what makes one a great player. 

I think I said, except at St. Andrews above. I agree winning at St. Andrews is important, great, and IMHO the BO should be there every year. If it was I would rank the BO the greatest tourney in golf.

I have always been inspired when I heard "The Champion Golfer of the Year is:", but I really don't think the British Open does identify the best golfer most of the time. The Masters and the US Open haven't lost site of identifying the best player. Most of the British Open courses are just too easy for modern pros and equipment. Didn't David Howell just clean up this week? He's barely Nationwide material over here.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

ksinc said:


> Didn't David Howell just clean up this week? He's barely Nationwide material over here.


He also cleaned up at the Ryder Cup, along with the rest of the European team. A record victory last time out I believe.

But, of course, the US tour and the Masters is where it's at, right?

Try looking beyond the end of your nose....... Just because Tiger doesn't win the Open every year is not a bad thing.

And if you think Open tracks are easy then you clearly know less than nothing about golf. But I think you have adequately demonstrated that already.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> And while the World Cup is fun it lacks the poetry of the World Series. The pace of the game and the drama that baseball can produce in late October, when the air is crisp, make for high art. But I think one has to be American to fully appreciate this. Btw did anyone read the Frank Foer book on soccer and globalization?
> 
> Karl


I read Foer's book. It was OK but simplistic and he seemed to lack a lot of basic knowledge about European football. He took the stock views that float around without challenging them - Barcelona good, Real Madrid bad, Celtic good, Rangers, bad. I can read that in any Guardian arts page article about soccer - he needed to get deeper. But he was trying at least.

I hear a lot of baseball fans talking about poetry - the poetry of the world series, the poetry of the home run, etc. Is that to make up for the fact that it is a dull game dominated by steroid freak sluggers?

I went to Giants game once. I got cold and kind of drunk. That was about it.

The World Cup is rather overblown and probably peaks at the quarter/semi finals - after that the players are too tired/injured and everyone gets a bit footballed out. Still awesome though.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

gmac said:


> Try looking beyond the end of your nose....... Just because Tiger doesn't win the Open every year is not a bad thing.
> 
> And if you think Open tracks are easy then you clearly know less than nothing about golf. But I think you have adequately demonstrated that already.


#1, I haven't mentioned Tiger at all.

#2, You've only masterfully demonstrated your inability to comprehend and make common distinctions. I didn't say they "were easy". I said, "they were too easy for modern pros and equipment."

And yes, since you brought it up, the best players in the world play on the PGATour in the US. Almost all the great Int'l players. I live in Orlando and play out of CG/DL where they train. However, that really has nothing do with the point about the Masters.

The greatest BO champions of the recent Era are Tom Watson and Jack Nicklaus. Tom ranks the US Open as the best because of his Father's appreciation for the National Championship and obviously Jack ranks the BO at St. Andrews and the Masters as the best majors. I'm happy to be in such "uninformed" company as Tom and Jack with my opinion of the majors.


----------



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> Gmac,
> 
> And while the World Cup is fun it lacks the poetry of the World Series. The pace of the game and the drama that baseball can produce in late October, when the air is crisp, make for high art. But I think one has to be American to fully appreciate this. Btw did anyone read the Frank Foer book on soccer and globalization?
> 
> Karl


I watch a lot of baseball, but I don't think there's anything particularly poetic about it. There are basically three guys actually playing at most points in the game - the pitcher, the catcher, and the batter. Most of the rest of the defense is just standing around waiting, and most of the rest of the offense is just sitting around waiting.

This reminds me of an interesting article I read comparing soccer and American football and how the appeal of these sports in countries reflect the country's attitude towards government and authority. In football, the referee (who represents the government) plays a huge role. After each play, he stops the action, sets up the ball in exactly the spot that it's supposed to be in, waits for everyone to get lined up and into position, and then lets play resume until it's time for him to set up the ball again. In soccer, on the other hand, the referee plays a very minimal role. Most of the time he just runs around and makes sure that fouls are not occurring. When a foul occurs, the referree does not pick up the ball and place it himself, instead, he just points to the general area where the ball should go and the player places the ball. Action in soccer is a lot more flowing, while in football it's a lot more choppy. The guy then went on to say that in America people expect the government to control everything and to lead people in every aspect of the game (i.e., their life), whereas in a lot of European countries people have less respect for government and are more self-sufficient. I don't know how true this analysis of Europe is, but I still thought the comparison of the role of the referee in soccer and football was very interesting.


----------



## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

ksinc said:


> The greatest BO champions of the recent Era are Tom Watson and Jack Nicklaus. Tom ranks the US Open as the best because of his Father's appreciation for the National Championship and obviously Jack ranks the BO at St. Andrews and the Masters as the best majors. I'm happy to be in such "uninformed" company as Tom and Jack with my opinion of the majors.


Unlike you I won't presume to speak for Watson and Nicklaus.

Saying that, it is my understanding that Nicklaus' favourite Open venue is Muirfield - that's why he named his Muirfield Village development after it.

Most golfers I know rank Muirfield above the Old Course in everything other than tradition and history.

I'm sorry that you were unable to comprehend that my use of the term easy was in the context of this discussion. I'll spell things out a little more clearly for you next time to avoid any confusion. I have a 6 year old so I'm used to explaining things in simple terms - we should be fine.


----------



## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> Gmac,
> 
> I think you are letting your infamous hostility towards the US cloud the issue. For American golfers the Masters is the ultimate victory. For British golfers clearly the British Open (this how the tournament is known here so this how I will refer to it, given the fact you come from a country that has a unique way to pronounce Quixote take it easy!) is the ultimate victory. For international golfers I suppose some view the Masters and some view the British Open as the ultimate golfing event. I don't think there is a correct view in this matter but I will say that I think most American golfing fans have far more respect for the British Open than you seem to have for the Masters.


I'm not hostile toward the US. I think that you ought to stop electing morons and crooks to positions of power but that is about it.

I'll be delighted if the US performs well at the World Cup - Claudio Reyna, your captain, played a couple of seasons at Rangers, my club; he was great and very well liked.

I think the Masters is a fabulous golf tournament. Being second best in the world after the Open is nothing to be ashamed of.


----------



## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

odoreater said:


> I watch a lot of baseball, but I don't think there's anything particularly poetic about it. There are basically three guys actually playing at most points in the game - the pitcher, the catcher, and the batter. Most of the rest of the defense is just standing around waiting, and most of the rest of the offense is just sitting around waiting.
> 
> This reminds me of an interesting article I read comparing soccer and American football and how the appeal of these sports in countries reflect the country's attitude towards government and authority. In football, the referee (who represents the government) plays a huge role. After each play, he stops the action, sets up the ball in exactly the spot that it's supposed to be in, waits for everyone to get lined up and into position, and then lets play resume until it's time for him to set up the ball again. In soccer, on the other hand, the referee plays a very minimal role. Most of the time he just runs around and makes sure that fouls are not occurring. When a foul occurs, the referree does not pick up the ball and place it himself, instead, he just points to the general area where the ball should go and the player places the ball. Action in soccer is a lot more flowing, while in football it's a lot more choppy. The guy then went on to say that in America people expect the government to control everything and to lead people in every aspect of the game (i.e., their life), whereas in a lot of European countries people have less respect for government and are more self-sufficient. I don't know how true this analysis of Europe is, but I still thought the comparison of the role of the referee in soccer and football was very interesting.


I think the author is right about the sports, but wrong about the politics. Don't see how Europeans are more self-sufficient than Americans. The riots last year in France come to mind.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

JRR said:


> I think the author is right about the sports, but wrong about the politics. Don't see how Europeans are more self-sufficient than Americans. The riots last year in France come to mind.


Maybe he wasn't talking about politics, but just people and their relationship to government in general. For example, I was in Europe last summer, and we wanted to go boating using a large rubber raft on a lake across the city. So, we needed to inflate our rubber raft, but if we did it at the lake we would have to carry a pump and pump it, if we did it at home we could use a compressor. So, we pumped up the boat at home and tied it to the roof of the car. The boat covered up the entire back windshield and half of the front windshield. The side windows were covered as well. My brother, who drove the car, basically had to slouch all the way down so he could see out of the bottom of the windshield. We carried the boat on the car this way all the way across the city and to the lake (about a 30 minute ride) passing plenty of police on the way. Nobody even gave us a second look. I remember thinking to myself, "if we ever tried this in America, we wouldn't get more than 30 feet before we were stopped by the police, told to remove the boat, and given a traffic ticket to boot."

In many ways we have a lot more freedom in America than people do in other countries. But the freedoms we have here are more, how can I put it, "big picture." In other countries, though, it's been my experience that people have a lot more freedom in day-to-day practical ways. It's kind of like the difference between having the freedom to publish anything you want in the press vs. the freedom to drink a beer in a public park. In America we have the former, but not the latter; in many other countries they have the latter, but not the former.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

This is a thread for sporting prejudices, not political ones please.

There are plenty of sporting reasons to dislike the French, let's stick to those.

Although their rugby team, at their best, is a thing of athletic beauty and to see them in full flow at the old Parc de Princes was one of the most exhilarating sights in any sport.

I notice that Armstrong has been completely exonerated in the doping enquiry from the 1999 Tour de France. Good news.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

odoreater said:


> Maybe he wasn't talking about politics, but just people and their relationship to government in general. For example, I was in Europe last summer, and we wanted to go boating using a large rubber raft on a lake across the city. So, we needed to inflate our rubber raft, but if we did it at the lake we would have to carry a pump and pump it, if we did it at home we could use a compressor. So, we pumped up the boat at home and tied it to the roof of the car. The boat covered up the entire back windshield and half of the front windshield. The side windows were covered as well. My brother, who drove the car, basically had to slouch all the way down so he could see out of the bottom of the windshield. We carried the boat on the car this way all the way across the city and to the lake (about a 30 minute ride) passing plenty of police on the way. Nobody even gave us a second look. I remember thinking to myself, "if we ever tried this in America, we wouldn't get more than 30 feet before we were stopped by the police, told to remove the boat, and given a traffic ticket to boot."
> 
> In many ways we have a lot more freedom in America than people do in other countries. But the freedoms we have here are more, how can I put it, "big picture." In other countries, though, it's been my experience that people have a lot more freedom in day-to-day practical ways. It's kind of like the difference between having the freedom to publish anything you want in the press vs. the freedom to drink a beer in a public park. In America we have the former, but not the latter; in many other countries they have the latter, but not the former.


That makes alot more sense. Euros do seem alot more free in their day to day lives. I am envious of that part of their lifestyles.

Cheers


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

gmac said:


> This is a thread for sporting prejudices, not political ones please.
> 
> There are plenty of sporting reasons to dislike the French, let's stick to those.
> 
> ...


Relax, wasn't trying to pick a US vs. Europe fight. Was just confused about the article odoreater was referencing.

However, I still dislike the French for World Cup '98 (beat Italy).

Cheers


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

gmac said:


> Saying that, it is my understanding that Nicklaus' favourite Open venue is Muirfield - that's why he named his Muirfield Village development after it.
> 
> .


That is true


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

JRR said:


> However, I still dislike the French for World Cup '98 (beat Italy).


You must dislike a lot of nationalities based on that criteria.......


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

gmac said:


> You must dislike a lot of nationalities based on that criteria.......


You don't dislike your teams' rivals?

Thats half the fun in sports.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

gmac said:


> You must dislike a lot of nationalities based on that criteria.......


The french also beat the italians in Euro 2000, what a heart breaker that was. Italy is always dangerous, but they have more passion than brains in football so they go down the tubes... They have not won anything since 1982. They did come close in 1994, but Baggio was inconsistent.


----------



## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

JRR said:


> You don't dislike your teams' rivals?
> 
> Thats half the fun in sports.


Not generally the whole country - unless its the English of course.

At club level sports, of course, I hate almost everyone my team plays against, with special places in hell reserved for Celtic and the St Louis Blues.

I was more referring to the fact that beating Italy at the Worls Cup doesn't put the French in a particulalrly select group - everyone is doing it.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

gmac said:


> Unlike you I won't presume to speak for Watson and Nicklaus.
> 
> Saying that, it is my understanding that Nicklaus' favourite Open venue is Muirfield - that's why he named his Muirfield Village development after it.
> 
> ...


You must get your ass kicked a lot! LOL

I'm not presuming to speak for Tom or Jack. I'm relating things they have said over and over in interviews. Educate and inform yourself. Jack likes Muirfield, but clearly tradition and history are the only things putting St. Andrews above the Masters. He has said he told Tiger, you have to win at the home of golf. And Tiger has confirmed that Jack told him that. That's not presumption it's information.

Most golfers you know? That's quite the endorsement. LOL


----------



## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

gmac said:


> Not generally the whole country - unless its the English of course.
> 
> At club level sports, of course, I hate almost everyone my team plays against, with special places in hell reserved for Celtic and the St Louis Blues.
> 
> I was more referring to the fact that beating Italy at the Worls Cup doesn't put the French in a particulalrly select group - everyone is doing it.


You have me there, from losing to S Korea, to the lame ass showing in Euro 2004, Italy isn't doing very well. Hope this year is different.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

The only thing that comes close to a European football match in North America is college basketball. I think this due mainly to the makeup of the fans. In Europe people are more likely to be born, to live and to die in the same place their whole lives. Supporting a soccer team is a intergenerational thing passed on from father to son the same people are in the same seats every Sunday, the hardcore elements are highly organized with songs, flags and choreographed spectacles. In large cities that have two teams there is sometimes even a political affiliation. In Rome, for example, AS Roma is the left wing team While Lazio is the right wing team. It would be unheard of for a European football team change cities as many professional sports franchises do in North America. A football team without it's local supporters and the whole stadium culture would be a nonentity.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

GT3 said:


> They did come close in 1994, but Baggio was inconsistent.


I must disagree. Baggio carried the team into the finals playing magnificently throughout. In the final Italy played a more talented Brazil to a standstill and after 120 minutes in 100 degree temperature Baggio missed a penalty kick. This is football, and that is what separates him from the true legends.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

GT3 said:


> The french also beat the italians in Euro 2000, what a heart breaker that was. Italy is always dangerous, but they have more passion than brains in football so they go down the tubes... They have not won anything since 1982. They did come close in 1994, but Baggio was inconsistent.


The finish of Euro 2000 was indeed dramatic.

Italy's victory in 1982 was iconic - Rossi's return from exile, the slow start, the sensational victory over Brazil and culminating with a great win over the despised West Germans. I was 12 and loved every minute of it.

I believe that this Italian team has the ability to go deep - but they cannot afford a slow start as they are in a murderous group - Ghana, USA and Czechs. Runners up in that group will almost certainly face Brazil in the last 16 so you _really_ want to win the group.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

ksinc said:


> You must get your ass kicked a lot! LOL
> 
> I'm not presuming to speak for Tom or Jack. I'm relating things they have said over and over in interviews. Educate and inform yourself. Jack likes Muirfield, but clearly tradition and history are the only things putting St. Andrews above the Masters. He has said he told Tiger, you have to win at the home of golf. And Tiger has confirmed that Jack told him that. That's not presumption it's information.
> 
> Most golfers you know? That's quite the endorsement. LOL


How many golfers do _you_ know personally that have played both the Old Course and Muirfield? I'll admit I don't know many - but I'm betting you don't know any at all.

As for the Masters, I'd love to win one of those yukky green jackets. But like 90% of the world's golfers, amateur and pro, I'd rather lift the claret jug. No competition.

As for Jack Nicklaus, you obviously don't have a clue about him either.

I think I'm done with this argument. See you at Hoylake.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

My team, Germany, will not be lucky this time. But as Gary Lineker once said ...the Germans always win. We will see. 

Who do you support in the WC gmac? What do you think of this years Tour de France? Basso just beat the bejesus out of the Giro field. He may do the double.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

Do you have any evidence that 90% of golfers would prefer to win the British Open rather than the Masters? Can you back up that claim or is it another Gmacism? And whether you admit it or not you have hostility towards the US and it manifests itself in almost every comment you make.

And Odoreater I really have to disagree with the assessment about the difference between American football and soccer you mentioned. I think both Europeans and Americans distrust the government but (most) Europeans expect the government to take care of them from cradle to grave. Americans don't quite have such lofty expectations of their government but the Bush administration's expansion of entitlement programs are surely pushing us in that direction.

And if you think baseball lacks poetry then go watch footage of Carlton Fisk's homer in 1975. Mookie Wilson's slow grounder missed by Buckner in 1986, Kirk Gibson's heroic homerun on gimpy legs in 1988. etc. Bc baseball is the only major team sport that doesn't have a set time limit it has limitless possibilities and no matter how dire the circumstances there is always hope. In this sense I think baseball is the perfect metaphor for the American experience.

Karl


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

I, being a supporter, have very little hope for Italy. The trainer instists on playing Del Piero, a talented but hopeless player who has squandered more big game opportunities than any Italian player before him but is still prized for his "tactical intelligence". Italy needs to hire a foreign trainer to understand that there is more to soccer than counter attacking style.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

manicturncoat said:


> I, being a supporter, have very little hope for Italy. The trainer instists on playing Del Piero, a talented but hopeless player who has squandered more big game opportunities than any Italian player before him but is still prized for his "tactical intelligence". Italy needs to hire a foreign trainer to understand that there is more to soccer than counter attacking style.


Yeah Italy has to change their style, it has cost them tournaments: the South Korea game (2002) and also the Sweden game (2004). I think that catenaccio is part of their football fabric, a consequence is counterattacking. What is up with Vieri, where is he? Del Piero is very talented, but terribly inconsistent.

EDIT: I just realized Lippi is the coach for Italy, was he not the coach of Juventus, Del Piero's club?


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

Karl89 said:


> And if you think baseball lacks poetry then go watch footage of Carlton Fisk's homer in 1975. Mookie Wilson's slow grounder missed by Buckner in 1986, Kirk Gibson's heroic homerun on gimpy legs in 1988. etc. Bc baseball is the only major team sport that doesn't have a set time limit it has limitless possibilities and no matter how dire the circumstances there is always hope. In this sense I think baseball is the perfect metaphor for the American experience.
> Karl


Being from Europe, I think baseball is fascinating. It took me a few years to really understand the game (Joe Morgan's commentaries are the best). I have developed a passion for baseball (I like the Angels). Baseball is a cerebral game, the countless possibilities that can arise from a single pitch selection, the tendencies of batters etc etc. Baseball is downright intellectually challenging.

Baseball, however, is not really comparable to soccer in Europe or for that matter South America. The passions run deeper than most can imagine, one really needs to have seen it in person to understand it. One goalkeeper from Brazil recently died a man in social prison. He let a goal in a world cup and lost the game: he not only lost the game but his social life. This is just one example. I can go on and on. One more thing; the world cup is once every four years while the World Series is once a year.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

Vieri? Probably somewhere with Lapo Elkann polishing off another kilo of cocaine. We have been spared the ignominity of watching him play. Ever since he missed that gimme in the final minutes against South Korea he has been useless. There are no players on the Italian team with true class.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

manicturncoat said:


> Vieri? Probably somewhere with Lapo Elkann polishing off another kilo of cocaine. We have been spared the ignominity of watching him play. Ever since he missed that gimme in the final minutes against South Korea he has been useless. There are no players on the Italian team with true class.


And I thought Elkann was sobering up!

I agree, Italy does not have any true class players, but neither do 90% of the WC participants. What is the deal with Holland? van Basten is an absolute idiot for not taking Seedorf.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

GT3 said:


> My team, Germany, will not be lucky this time. But as Gary Lineker once said ...the Germans always win. We will see.
> 
> Who do you support in the WC gmac? What do you think of this years Tour de France? Basso just beat the bejesus out of the Giro field. He may do the double.


I think the Germans will struggle - but if they can get some momentum and the home crowd behind them, well you never know. But they don't seem to have the quality of player they had over the decades. Its a shame.

Personally, I am not certain who I will support. I will watch most of the World Cup in France and i love Zidane (we share a hairstyle) so I'll be cheering les bleus. I'm going to see Brazil play Australia in the group stages so I'll be rooting for them. I have an affinity for Spain but don't think they will do well. I'd like to see the italians do well.

Oh, and I'll be supporting whoever is playing England on any given day....


----------



## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

gmac said:


> I think the Germans will struggle - but if they can get some momentum and the home crowd behind them, well you never know. But they don't seem to have the quality of player they had over the decades. Its a shame.
> 
> Personally, I am not certain who I will support. I will watch most of the World Cup in France and i love Zidane (we share a hairstyle) so I'll be cheering les bleus. I'm going to see Brazil play Australia in the group stages so I'll be rooting for them. I have an affinity for Spain but don't think they will do well. I'd like to see the italians do well.
> 
> Oh, and I'll be supporting whoever is playing England on any given day....


I am envious of your situation (not the hair style though). I love Zizou too, the man has been the best midfielder in the past ten years. I actually despise England, I hope that they go home in the first round. Brazil and Australia will be carnage. I don't want to see Italy do well, but it would not be the end of the world. Spain, the perennial underachievers, will do what they do - lose. It is going to be great.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> Gmac,
> 
> Do you have any evidence that 90% of golfers would prefer to win the British Open rather than the Masters?


Not a shred.



Karl89 said:


> Can you back up that claim or is it another Gmacism? And whether you admit it or not you have hostility towards the US and it manifests itself in almost every comment you make.


I think you are a little paranoid Karl. You need to lighten up. The fact that I, most of the world and apparently about 70% of Americans think that George Bush is an idiot does not mean we "have hostiility towards the US".

I'll ignore your daft comments about politics and take your thoughts on baseball under advisement.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Fellows, I have to disagree about Italy, I think they will do well.

Luca Toni is scoring goals, the defence is watertight and Totti looks like he will be fit. If their heads are right despite this match fixing scandal they could do well - but they have to start quickly.

The reason Van Basten has dropped Seedorf, Davids and Kluivert is that they have failed consistenly on the international stage and are disruptive to the group. From what I understand he has a group of young players who will kill for each other and that is valuable.

It will be interesting to see who emerges as the surprise team - there is always one.


----------



## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

Holland is another team I do not like (they are Germany's arch rival, not England as everyone thinks). I hope they get pummeled. Davids and Kluivert are not even close to what they used to be, but Seedorf is still fast and strong. Even the dropping of Makaay was a surprise to me, he is a pure hitman.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

Please cite some evidence that 70% of Americans think Bush is an idiot. Since you have already admitted that you make statements without a shred of evidence one has to wonder whether you deliberately lie or are just extremely confused.

And how are my comments about politics daft? Or do you intend to argue that Europeans don't fully embrace the social-welfare model? 

I will give you this Gmac, at least you are consistent - consistently wrong.

Be back this evening to gloat when the Mavs beat the Suns!

Karl


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> Gmac,
> 
> Please cite some evidence that 70% of Americans think Bush is an idiot. Since you have already admitted that you make statements without a shred of evidence one has to wonder whether you deliberately lie or are just extremely confused.


No lies or confusion - just extrapolating from the man's approval ratings.



Karl89 said:


> And how are my comments about politics daft? Or do you intend to argue that Europeans don't fully embrace the social-welfare model?


Do you really think that, out of 350 million of 'em, "(most) Europeans expect the government to take care of them from cradle to grave".

If so, you are dafter than even I think. Which is emminently possible considering your extremely whacky views regarding the continent of Europe.



Karl89 said:


> Be back this evening to gloat when the Mavs beat the Suns!
> 
> Karl


I'll be here.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Dallas wins!*

Ok......no gloating as we haven't won the series but still what a game by Dirk! He should have been the MVP this year. 5 more wins to a title!

Karl


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Nowitsky was absolutely outstanding. Quite a game all round.

When is game 6? Saturday?


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## arbitrage (Jan 13, 2006)

Karl89,

Don't feed the troll. He reminds me of this kid trolling outside Columbia U. during the Presidential elections of 2004. He asked me if I am registered to vote. I replied yes (noticing the Kerry-Edwards sticker on his clipboard). He asked me if I am voting for Kerry-Edwards. I asked him the following questions : Tell me in you own words why I should vote for the Democratic ticket. Before you answer I want you to not include anything about George W. Bush or Republicans. What can the Democratic Party do for me? His response: (So quiet you can hear a pin drop). Followed by the classic "F***in' Republican" Everytime I read a GMAC post I think of him. Warms the cockles.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

arbitrage said:


> Everytime I read a GMAC post I think of him. Warms the cockles.


Kid sounds less repetitive than you, newbie.

I don't think you have the wit to understand or respond to me - so you want everyone else to be the same.

Stick around, you might learn something. Or not.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

arbitrage said:


> Karl89,
> 
> Don't feed the troll. He reminds me of this kid trolling outside Columbia U. during the Presidential elections of 2004. He asked me if I am registered to vote. I replied yes (noticing the Kerry-Edwards sticker on his clipboard). He asked me if I am voting for Kerry-Edwards. I asked him the following questions : Tell me in you own words why I should vote for the Democratic ticket. Before you answer I want you to not include anything about George W. Bush or Republicans. What can the Democratic Party do for me? His response: (So quiet you can hear a pin drop). Followed by the classic "F***in' Republican" Everytime I read a GMAC post I think of him. Warms the cockles.


And, hey, try not to make your posts such obviously made up stories. That little episode never happened outside of your imagination.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

There you go again accusing someone of being a liar when you in previous posts admit that you often say things that cannot be backed up by evidence. Why are you always such a boor Gmac? Not enough people to boss around at work (as you admitted you like doing in a previous thread)? still pining over misguided Italian girls from 16 years ago or are you just a miserable SOB? Combination of all three? 

Can't you get along with anyone? I, for one, believe the story Arbitrage relates bc I have a few friends who worked on the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2000 and 2004 and some of the Democratic antics were beyond belief.

Karl


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

GT3 said:


> Cycling, believe it or not, is not completely an individual sport. In fact cycling is probably the toughest sport in the world.


A fellow enjoyer of cycling! The most overlooked "team" sport. To the casual fan cycling appears to be an individual sport. You could not be more from the truth. Cycling is so much about the strength of the team and "alliances" made on the road during the race. As much as I appreciate Lance Armstrong for bringing cycling to the attention of many who would have never watched cycling, I regret that his "focus" on the Tour De France took attention away from the other major tours.

If you want proof cycling is a team sport. Rent some of the race DVD's from the Giro D'Italia or races other than the Tour De France, especially from 3-4 years ago when Mario Cippolini was dominating the sprint finishes. Watch the flat stages, especially near the end and you'll see how cycling is about the "team" controlling the race.

Oh, since American Football isn't year round, I'm glad I have cycling. I wish OLN had better coverage of the 3 major tours.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

gng8 said:


> I think soccer is of no or very little interest to most Americans. It certainly is of no interest to me.
> 
> Bring on college basketball.


This is true by the general lack of media coverage given to the local pro teams. I don't think they'll be around much longer. I could be wrong, maybe they have great attendance and media coverage, but because I don't care for soccer I don't pay attention to it.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

GT3 said:


> You guys don't seriously consider Golf a sport do you?


Golf is what you claim you're doing in betwen crashing the golf carts and ordering another Morgan and Coke.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> Gmac,
> 
> There you go again accusing someone of being a liar when you in previous posts admit that you often say things that cannot be backed up by evidence.


Because he obviously just made it up - don't be so gullible Karl, just because you want to believe it doesn't make it so.



Karl89 said:


> Why are you always such a boor Gmac? Not enough people to boss around at work (as you admitted you like doing in a previous thread)?


Never enough people to boss around. (by the way, when you use my own jokes as if you have uncovered some conclusive piece of evidence against me, it just makes you seem very humourless. Can you be very humourless? Is that like being very pregnant - you either are humourless or you're not? Anyway...)



Karl89 said:


> still pining over misguided Italian girls from 16 years ago or are you just a miserable SOB? Combination of all three?


Was it 16 years ago? My goodness..... I'm certainly pining for her now, my missus has gone out with her brother to a show and I'm left with you guys and a pile of laundry to put away.



Karl89 said:


> Can't you get along with anyone? I, for one, believe the story Arbitrage relates bc I have a few friends who worked on the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2000 and 2004 and some of the Democratic antics were beyond belief.
> 
> Karl


I don't doubt it. But the fundamental problem is that you overlook the fact that newbie took a pop at me first, which is fine. I let it ride for a little while then came back. You only seem to notice it when I have a go, not when other people take shots (at me or otherwise). As I recall you didn't jump in when that idiot caled my mother a whore and my dad something else and what have you. Now, I could care less what he said but it's a bit hypocritical of you to slag me off but ignore the transgressions of others.

And in case you missed it, I reckon newbie's story is a load of crap - whatever antics Democrat operatives got up to (and I don't doubt it for a second) being caught speechless is not one of them. I believe you know that as well as I do.

Now, *can we all stop hijacking the sports thread *and get back on topic - start an I hate gmac thread if it will allow you to vent but this is for sports.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> Ok......no gloating as we haven't won the series but still what a game by Dirk! He should have been the MVP this year. 5 more wins to a title!
> 
> Karl


I'm not familiar with the rules of basketball - what was with the double technical (I don't even know what that means) assessed on Raja Bell about 9 minutes from the end?

It really seemed to deflate the Suns and Nowitsky just took over.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

There were two technicals. One on Bell and one on the Suns coach. I though the refs called the game too tightly but I won't complain about the outcome. I am sure the Suns will win game 6 and one of will crowing Monday night. But Dirk is the best, truly a Deutsch Marksman!

Karl


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

Trenditional said:


> A fellow enjoyer of cycling! The most overlooked "team" sport. To the casual fan cycling appears to be an individual sport. You could not be more from the truth. Cycling is so much about the strength of the team and "alliances" made on the road during the race. As much as I appreciate Lance Armstrong for bringing cycling to the attention of many who would have never watched cycling, I regret that his "focus" on the Tour De France took attention away from the other major tours.
> 
> If you want proof cycling is a team sport. Rent some of the race DVD's from the Giro D'Italia or races other than the Tour De France, especially from 3-4 years ago when Mario Cippolini was dominating the sprint finishes. Watch the flat stages, especially near the end and you'll see how cycling is about the "team" controlling the race.
> 
> Oh, since American Football isn't year round, I'm glad I have cycling. I wish OLN had better coverage of the 3 major tours.


Yes Sir. I cycle a lot and I love the suffering for some reason. The Dauphine Libere, the Adrennes classics, Paris Nice and other prestigious races were overlooked here in America. Perhaps if people knew about the other races, the interest in cycling would have stayed. OLN only does the Tour de France good, they shortcut everything else. This is by far the toughest sport in the world, nothing but suffering and pain for hours at a time.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

In Lance Armstrong's Tour de France victories the quality of his team must not be underestimated. It was his team's domininance in the team chrono stage and their ability to set a blistering pace and cohesiveness deep into the mountain stages that gave Armtstrong an edge over other riders.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

manicturncoat said:


> In Lance Armstrong's Tour de France victories the quality of his team must not be underestimated. It was his team's domininance in the team chrono stage and their ability to set a blistering pace and cohesiveness deep into the mountain stages that gave Armtstrong an edge over other riders.


No questions about it. With out the team Lance would not have won all of those Tours de France. What if Jan Ullrich had that team, now that would be scary.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

I remember several years ago when Armstrong fell on one the last mountain stages when Ullrich was attacking and he slowed down to give Armstrong time to get back on his bike, this was one of the greatest acts of fair play I have ever seen in any sporting event.
On the last tour Ivan Basso the only rider who could contemplate an attack tried desperately on one of the last mountain stages but Armstrong came out of the protective shell of his team amd would not give an inch. To think that on the Discovery team there was Paolo Savoldelli two time winner of the Giro d'Italia dropping back to pick up water bottles as a lowly "gregario". I was watching this on Italian television and the sense of shame in the voices of the commentators was palpable.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

manicturncoat said:


> I remember several years ago when Armstrong fell on one the last mountain stages when Ullrich was attacking and he slowed down to give Armstrong time to get back on his bike, this was one of the greatest acts of fair play I have ever seen in any sporting event.
> On the last tour Ivan Basso the only rider who could contemplate an attack tried desperately on one of the last mountain stages but Armstrong came out of the protective shell of his team amd would not give an inch. To think that on the Discovery team there was Paolo Savoldelli two time winner of the Giro d'Italia dropping back to pick up water bottles as a lowly "gregario". I was watching this on Italian television and the sense of shame in the voices of the commentators was palpable.


Jan is a generous man, he wants to win but not at all costs. Armstrong was very strong last year, he fended attacks by Vino and Kloeden while Ullrich marked him, his team was nowhere in sight. I won't miss Lance this year, it was getting really boring.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Wow, you get all caught up with Michael Moore and Iraq and forget about what is really important!

Shaq seems to have led the Heat to the finals (I didn't watch it). Is he that good? I always thought he was kind of a big dope but I don't know much about hoops.

Hat trick for Crouch for England today in their final warm up game against Jamaica.

Amusiningly, in the UK they have apparently sold out of Trinidad and Tobago replica shirts. T&T play England in the second group match and every Scot in the world will be supporting out Caribbean friends, but since they have a lad called Jason Scotland in their squad, everyone back home is buying the T&T shirt with Scotland written on the back.

I'm sure England will hump them but good for a laugh.....


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

C'mon Karl, let's hug and talk about sports for a while.

How do you see the big hoops game in Phoenix going tonight? I've never seen the Suns look so flat as they did in the last 8 or 10 minutes on Thursday. Can they get it back? They had better......


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

I hope Dallas wins. I pray Dallas wins (though I can't recall the patron saint of basketball.) I expect there will be a Game 7 in Dallas on Monday though. The Suns seems to play lights out when their backs are against the wall. I think Dallas wins a Game 7 BUT thats far from a sure thing. One thing that works in the Mavs favor is that Phoenix has played 3 more games so far in the playoffs, including 4 elimination games. Fatigue can catch up to you late in the playoffs and Phoenix must be tired.

The excitement in Dallas is palpable. The Mavs were so bad for so long and for the past 5 years we have been stuck in the 50+ win ghetto - a nice regular season team but usually done by mid-May. I can't tell you how let down this city will be if we don't advance to the finals. I think Dirk has finally emerged as a truly elite player and as Game 5 shows he can when necessary carry the team on his back. 

I still expect a Game 7 but hope springs eternal and I hope I go to sleep tonight with dreams of the Finals in my head. Shaq really dislikes the Mavs center Eric Dampier ( a servicable, solid workhorse if not a star) and has called him the second best center in the..........WNBA!

Go Mavs!!!

Karl


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

It wasn't looking good until late in the third quarter but the Mavs pulled it out and are off to face the Heat in the NBA Finals. Unless you root for a team which has spent a long time as the league laughingstock its hard to convey how happy this win makes Maverick fans feel. I think we can beat Miami but it should be a good series.

Go Mavs!

Karl


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

Any predictions on the NBA Finals? I say Mavs in 6.

Karl


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

'Fraid I've lost interest now that the Suns are out.

I missed it but the 1st game of the Stanley Cup finals sounds like a barn burner!


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

I just refuse to root for a team that is in a city that shouldn't have hockey - North Carolina is for basketball and not hockey! Plus Edmonton needs the glow of a Stanley Cup victory to keep them warm during those brutal winters! But I hop ethe NHL recovers, it took a nearly fatal hit bc of the missed strike year.

Karl


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Big piece in the Globe and Mail today about the financial trouble hockey is in and it's complete lack of relevance in the US. A bit disheartening at the start of the Stanley Cup finals.

Seems that a Stanley Cup in Raleigh would be a nice oddity, while in Edmonton it would be cause for a week long celebration and validation of their very existence. 

Don't know what the answer is. League contraction?


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

manicturncoat said:


> I remember several years ago when Armstrong fell on one the last mountain stages when Ullrich was attacking and he slowed down to give Armstrong time to get back on his bike, this was one of the greatest acts of fair play I have ever seen in any sporting event.
> On the last tour Ivan Basso the only rider who could contemplate an attack tried desperately on one of the last mountain stages but Armstrong came out of the protective shell of his team amd would not give an inch. To think that on the Discovery team there was Paolo Savoldelli two time winner of the Giro d'Italia dropping back to pick up water bottles as a lowly "gregario". I was watching this on Italian television and the sense of shame in the voices of the commentators was palpable.


There was a bit of controversy in Jan's waiting for Armstrong. There were comments made and a statement by Tyler Hamilton that he had to tell the others to wait for Armstrong. I know the "rules" of cycling prohibit attacking when the leader (due to uncontrolled circumstances) is not able to answer the attack. I do agree Jan waited, but I think he had to be "reminded" to wait.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

How would Tyler Hamilton have reminded Ullrich if Ullrich was out front attacking? I remember Ullrich turning his head around and seeing Armstrong on the ground and immediately slowing down.


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