# Opinions on Navy Blue Chinos + Black Cherry Gentleman Travlers ; PICS INSIDE



## mike_terror (Jan 2, 2012)

I've been a AAAC reader for a while, but never really took any action in DOING instead of just reading. I'm slowly trying to re-build my wardrobe with my limited funds that I have and with advices that I've read.

Anyways, I went out with my girlfriend wearing a pair of navy blue chinos that were slightly faded, black cherry gentleman travelers, grey ocbd, and a black sweater. Since I'm trying to build my wardrobe slowly, I don't have much to choose from and actually quite limited on what I can put together with what I have. When we got out of the car and was walking in the dim lighted street, she complemented on what I wore for the night and thought it looked really nice.

But as soon as we stepped out into brighter lighting, she said she takes back what she said because didn't like the navy blue chinos and thought they they didn't match with the black cherry GT's and with my black sweater (she never liked the look of navy blue chinos). We had a little debate and I thought the blue chinos looked okay with the GT's even though they were just a little bit faded.

-What do you guys think on the color of the pants & shoes? the fit of the outfit? 
-What do you guys recommend or will do differently.

(I had to pump up the brightness / contrast a bit on the photos so they would show the color more properly)

I'm new to this so any thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated!




























https://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z394/OldManMachine/2.jpg


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

they look good together in the photos IYAM.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Welcome to the foum. I have no problem with your color coordination, but would recommend tucking your shirt before going out...particularly if you will be wearing a cardigan or sportcoat with it.


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

Probably just me, but I've had plenty of chinos, i.e. flat-front, informal cotton pants, in colors, including navy, but the only ones that really worked were the traditional khaki color, preferably the darker "British khaki." These are a real narrow cut, very trendy, as is the shirttail out, and in some ways harking to an earlier era, the cut, shirttail out definitely a no-no in earlier eras. I don't like that, but, hey, it's a matter of taste.


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## mike_terror (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks hookem & eagle! I was getting some negative feedback from others like my friends, brother, and SF. You guys were the first to give something positive.

I've always been a t-shirt type of guy before deciding to actually change up and put some thought into my wardrobe, therefore going out casually with my shirt tucked in is still something new transition to me. I'll slowly try to get out of my comfort zone by tucking in my shirt. 

Is there any rule of thumb for tucking in shirts for casual outfits? Can a button down shirt ever NOT be tucked in? or should the shirt ALWAYS be tucked in? I don't have the most flattering mid-section which is why I'm hesitant to do so.

Also, the pants are urban slim chinos from J Crew, what do you guys think about the fit? Here's a quote from a fellow SF member on the same pictures:
"the pants fit awkwardly in that they are tighter around the calf/lower leg but quite baggy around the thighs and waist."


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

I would say that the fit problem mentioned in the SF response is probably a function of too much length. I would bet that if the pants were shorter they would hang better. I have a couple of pairs of pants that do the same thing, and I've been meaning to take them in a bit.



mike_terror said:


> Also, the pants are urban slim chinos from J Crew, what do you guys think about the fit? Here's a quote from a fellow SF member on the same pictures:
> "the pants fit awkwardly in that they are tighter around the calf/lower leg but quite baggy around the thighs and waist."


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## mike_terror (Jan 2, 2012)

efdll said:


> Probably just me, but I've had plenty of chinos, i.e. flat-front, informal cotton pants, in colors, including navy, but the only ones that really worked were the traditional khaki color, preferably the darker "British khaki." These are a real narrow cut, very trendy, as is the shirttail out, and in some ways harking to an earlier era, the cut, shirttail out definitely a no-no in earlier eras. I don't like that, but, hey, it's a matter of taste.


@efdll, I appreciate your input. I'm very new to everything trying to step out of my usual comfort zone so I'd like to hear from all the veterans here. The chinos are a slimmer fit, they're the "urban slims" from J Crew. I know how many people here feel about the J Crew quality of clothing, but I felt that it would be an easy transition / gateway for new people like myself.

Would you recommend a more traditional straight fit darker khaki with the shirt tucked in? and no to navy chinos?


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

mike_terror said:


> Is there any rule of thumb for tucking in shirts for casual outfits? Can a button down shirt ever NOT be tucked in? or should the shirt ALWAYS be tucked in? I don't have the most flattering mid-section which is why I'm hesitant to do so.


I'm no authority on the matter, but here are my thoughts. I always wear OCBDs tucked in even if it's w/ shorts. When I wear madras in the Summer, sometimes I tuck them in, sometimes not, just because they're such a casual item. I know for you young whipper snappers it's acceptable and sometimes preferred to wear your OCBDs untucked, but that's just not how I roll 

Brian


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## Tourist Trophy Garage (Nov 24, 2011)

I have a pot belly, and I think I actually less dumpy with my shirt tucked in than the other way around.

I almost always wear knits untucked. Shirts with buttoned fronts I tuck except when wearing shorts.

You could probably wear a shorter inseam. Seems like narrow legged trousers need to be shorter to help prevent bunching up at the ankles. Stacks may be desirable with denim, but it doesn't really work with chinos.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

Welcome to the forum. I would recommend always tucking the shirt in, it takes getting used to, but ALWAYS makes you look better, more grown up, taller, less like a bro. Not that you look young, short, or like a bro now. Also, agreed on the pants with whoever that was on SF, fit is a little bit strange, and I would choose something less fitted and more classic.


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## mike_terror (Jan 2, 2012)

Thank you for everyone's feedback.

Regarding the pant inseam, I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'm actually quite surprised with the comments on the length because these are the first non-denim pants that I've purchased. I'm about 5' 7" and have always purchased or shortened my denim to 30x32. When I purchased the navy blue chinos, I kept in mind what I've read here about having shorter lengths that fit so I got 30x30 thinking they were already huge improvement from my normal long lengths, but I guess I may need to get 29" inseams.


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## mike_terror (Jan 2, 2012)

I apologize for beating on the subject of pant fitment, but here's a picture grabbed from docker's website:








Would the classic / straight fit be more preferable / recommended.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Check the Archives-I know there have been many discussions on navy cotton pants. Some categorically dislike them, others (myself included) like them. I've spoken with people at Bill's over the past few years and learned they discontinued them because dark colors fade relatively quickly. This can be mitigated by dry cleaning or to a lesser extent washing in cold water inside out. My solution has been to bite the bullet and replace them when I notice the color is going. I've found that true khaki (including the darker British Khaki) soften with age and whatever color deterioration occurs contributes to what we might call patina-with navy they just look old before their time. You didn't ask about this but I've found the same thing with grey shirts and opposed to blue and white. Not sure why this should be the case but I go back to OCBD's made by SERO back in the late 70's and early 80's and observed the same pattern.


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

Again, navy or khaki, it's a matter of personal taste, though keep in mind the fading-with-age factor mentioned here and the fact that khaki is the only family of color that ages well in cotton. Slim pants look good -- if you're slim and, I believe, young. These you're wearing, I concur with others, don't fit well. Wear fitted pants that fit. Alas, as always, you'll find that if you spend mucho bucks for a top Italian (anathema in this forum) brand (and I mean brand, not designer), they'll be slim and flattering to a slim body. Don't go buying looser pants because some of us older folk prefer them. Be true to your likes and dislikes. As for tucking in your shirt, make sure it's not too long and baggy or it'll look like a nightshirt. I don't much care for the really tight, short shirts that have been the rage, for they look like they shrank or you bought them at the boys' dept. But try shirts on untucked, and, like the pants, check out how they fit. Oh yeah, your tastes will evolve. Stick around this forum and you'll learn a thing or two. I have.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Firstly, tuck in your shirt 100% of the time.










Secondly, while your personal coloring may figure into it, I think that the ability to integrate navy & olive chinos, as well as other colors, has a lot to do with how varied your shirts & jackets are. For most of our community the navy blazer is the most common jacket we own, which makes navy chinos a scarce fit right out of the gate.

I personally like them and like how they fade. I wore them as school uniform pants in grade school and have a fondness for them. I also think they look fine with a light blue OCBD. I particularly like them paired with dirty bucks.

Your look in the photo is a little more trendy than most of us on this side wear - a little more J.Crew (work boots and a grey OCBD and whatnot), but in general its well put together in terms of color.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

mike_terror said:


> I apologize for beating on the subject of pant fitment, but here's a picture grabbed from docker's website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The reason your pants, as shown in your photos, are so wrinkled is because the legs are too tight, the fabric cannot fall, hang if you will, down properly. If it was just a question of too much length the fabric would fall properly and the excess bunch up at your shoe. Pant legs should have some taper, but not too much. At your height, with a typical shoe length, the opening should be around 9", (18 " fabric circumference).

While a few men find ways to wear them, it is not easy to find uses for navy pants, the stone, khaki, tan continuum is much easier to wear.

By the way, your sleeves are also too long, they should not extend over your hand.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Most of the basics have been covered already (tuck your shirt in, pants too long, workboots when not working are trendy, navy chinos are tough to pull off etc.). J. Crew makes a decent product that's a good value at sale or outlet prices. The urban slim fit doesn't work on a lot of guys, but the classic fit is still slim without hugging the calves. Also, getting them hemmed with cuffs will help them hang straighter instead of getting hung up on your socks and bunching up. With regards to length, you'll notice in the photo you posted that as the leg opening tightens, the hem line also rises slightly. You could probably use another 2" off of those pants in order for them to sit straight on your boots.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of the look but it's a good start and a far cry from the t-shirt and jeans clothed masses.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I'd give one time not to tuck in a button up shirt: if it's got very short tails. I try to avoid shirts with short tails, but I have 1 popover and 1 button up, both are Gant x michael bastian and neither has tails that are long enough to stay tucked in, so I dont worry about it and wear them quite casually, untucked. There may be some disagreement, but there's my 2cents


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Flip up the hem on your trousers to give yourself an instant cuff, and it will help the fit. 

Don't wear navy trousers unless it's with a suit. Don't fight this; just accept it. 

There's nothing wrong for J Crew for casual basics. 

Nice boots.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> I'd give one time not to tuck in a button up shirt: if it's got very short tails. I try to avoid shirts with short tails, but I have 1 popover and 1 button up, both are Gant x michael bastian and neither has tails that are long enough to stay tucked in, so I dont worry about it and wear them quite casually, untucked. There may be some disagreement, but there's my 2cents


I'll go untucked when I'm wearing an OCBD very casually (like at the beach or the pool) but, for the most part, if it's got tails it should be tucked in. If I were you I might just have those shirts altered with a straight hem, since they don't stay tucked in anyway. Shirts with straight hems are perfectly acceptable worn untucked.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

AlanC said:


> Don't wear navy trousers unless it's with a suit. Don't fight this; just accept it.


Alan, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? I think navy chinos are hardly ever a good choice, but what about navy wide-wales? Flannels? Moleskins? I think they can all look quite sharp with some chili-colored country footwear and a tweed sport coat (provided the fit is right).


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I could probably tolerate navy cords, but I wouldn't wear them.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Also, I really like navy chinos with a pink or yellow ocbd. Think I've posted pics of such a couple times


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

AlanC said:


> Don't wear navy trousers unless it's with a suit. Don't fight this; just accept it.


I assume AlanC is being a bit tongue and cheek. Navy pants can be limiting, especially for the reason provided by Trip English above, but they do have utility. Navy pants go well with burgundy, camel, and other light colored sweaters and vests, for instance. Still, they aren't nearly as versatile as traditional khaki (I guess that's why khaki is, well, traditional!).


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Tiger said:


> I assume AlanC is being a bit tongue and cheek. Navy pants can be limiting, especially for the reason provided by Trip English above, but they do have utility. Navy pants go well with burgundy, camel, and other light colored sweaters and vests, for instance. Still, they aren't nearly as versatile as traditional khaki (I guess that's why khaki is, well, traditional!).


I agree, but navy chinos are also a great jeans substitute when everyone around you is wearing jeans. So good colors Mike. But tuck yer shirt in, lad!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I think something in the tan to brown colour range would work better with the blue shirt. I respectfully disagree with ARK on your shirt sleeves. They're not over your knuckles or anything and you'd have to be incredibly pedantic to shorten them by a half inch. (Which is very difficult to find in ready to wear shirts.)

You may be better served by a simple straight leg rather than something fashionably slim like that, which usually also has a lower rise. That's not flattering if you have any spare tyre around the midsection. Tucking in your shirt will help, though. No offence to your friend on Style Forum, but since when is something that close fitting to the thigh "baggy"?



Trip English said:


> Firstly, tuck in your shirt 100% of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trip, that photo is the highlight of my day.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

arkirshner said:


> While a few men find ways to wear them, it is not easy to find uses for navy pants, the stone, khaki, tan continuum is much easier to wear.


I don't know why so many here don't like navy. Anything that goes with khaki goes with navy. They're both a neutral. Far too many here have become slaves to an imaginary set of rules.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

tinytim said:


> I don't know why so many here don't like navy. Anything that goes with khaki goes with navy. They're both a neutral. Far too many here have become slaves to an imaginary set of rules.


Not imaginary rules, just optics.

Look at a color wheel, navy is not a neutral, it is a hue.

A hue is a color as found in its pure state; primary colors, red, yellow, and blue; secondary colors, orange, green, and violet.

A neutral is a color not associated with a hue, thus black , white, grays and browns are neutrals. A hue can be neutralized by adding some of its complement to it, hence the term "neutral".

That is why it is easier to wear stone-khaki-tan pants.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

I don't like the mix of black and navy, I don't think it works. 

While conventional wisdom says don't be dressed by a woman, matching colors and fabrics is something they are usually very good at. As long as you stick to your guns on what there is to select from...

Would second the recommendation for actually checking a color wheel. 

Also, grab a couple of different options and check in front of the mirror which one makes your face look best. Doing that got me off of wearing black altogether, for now at least.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Is he wearing black? The sweater looks dark grey to me.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

^ Yeah, he said it was a black sweater in the OP.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

It looks like what the kids are wearing. I just don't think any of it is Trad. That's just me. the boots would work with some Filson pants but again not really Trad.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Well, then I'll just recommend a charcoal or grey sweater instead of black. 

David: Whether or not it's trad, he requested our help. It's only courteous to extend it.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

mike_terror said:


> Also, the pants are urban slim chinos from J Crew, what do you guys think about the fit? Here's a quote from a fellow SF member on the same pictures:
> "the pants fit awkwardly in that they are tighter around the calf/lower leg but quite baggy around the thighs and waist."


Those pants are too slim for you. The big boots make it even more pronounced. Some more normal fitting pants and a tucked in shirt, and you'd be fine.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

mike_terror said:


> Thank you for everyone's feedback.
> 
> Regarding the pant inseam, I'll definitely keep that in mind. I'm actually quite surprised with the comments on the length because these are the first non-denim pants that I've purchased. I'm about 5' 7" and have always purchased or shortened my denim to 30x32. When I purchased the navy blue chinos, I kept in mind what I've read here about having shorter lengths that fit so I got 30x30 thinking they were already huge improvement from my normal long lengths, but I guess I may need to get 29" inseams.


I'm taller than you and wear a 29 inseam.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Tuck your shirt in or post somewhere besides the trad forum.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Pentheos said:


> Tuck your shirt in or post somewhere besides the trad forum.


I thought Trads were supposed to have manners.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

Jovan. You're right. I think mixed in with the snide comments is some valuable information. 

I try to have manners in just about every aspect of my life, The two places I really struggle are on the road and on the internet. I'm a work in progress.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

tinytim said:


> I don't know why so many here don't like navy. Anything that goes with khaki goes with navy. They're both a neutral. Far too many here have become slaves to an imaginary set of rules.


Whether a color, a hue, or whatnot, navy is my color of choice for casual chinos or corduroys. Navy can be matched with a myriad colors or hues, just as much, if not more than tan.


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