# Cheap Weejun Color Hack



## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

This is for those of us who've tried to turn cheap modern Weejun-style loafers (Sebagos, Bass, etc.) into something more closely resembling the good old Weejuns from the 50s (i.e. nicer leather, better brown color, non-plasticky finish).

Awhile back I bought two pairs of Sebago Cayman 2 loafers from eBay after reading the good reviews here. The first pair I hacked using the standard method of removing the plasticky finish with rubbing alcohol and a rag, applying liberal coats of brown shoe cream as a "dye", and then polishing with dark brown wax shoe polish. 

The result was a distinct improvement over the original clown's nose red color. This pair of Sebagos is now a deep reddish brown and looks very much like the mahogany color Alden used to use:



For the 2nd pair of Sebagos I wanted a darker, more chocolatey brown, which is what I was originally after for the 1st pair. You can only go so far with the alcohol/polish method, as it really only strips away the plasticky finish and a small bit of the red dye, allowing you to darken the color but never really cover up that cheezy red dye #2. 

So this time, instead of sending in cream and polish to do a dye's job, I got real shoe dye. Fiebing's Shoe Dye, $6 a bottle at my local cobbler's. As it happened, he had one bottle of dark brown dye on hand -- "Chocolate". I call that kismet.

So I took the shoes and stripped the plasticky finish with rubbing alcohol and a rag. Let them dry for an hour, then placed them on some newspaper, opened the bottle of Feibing's, and got dark brown dye on my hand (unavoidable and fully expected). 

Used the little foam dauber my cobbler gave me to wipe the dye on the shoes, taking care not to get any on the interior of the shoes (he said not to worry about getting any dye on the soles since they're already quite dark, and he was right, it made no difference, which is a good thing since I was not exactly artisanal in my shoe dyeing technique). The dye is quite thin, like black water, so coverage was not an issue. It just Goes On, and Spreads Everywhere You Sponge It. Then you let it dry overnight. Then you rub the shoes with a clean rag to smooth the finish, dye them all over again, and leave them to dry overnight again. 

In the morning you give them another once-over with the rag, and then polish them up with your favorite dark brown wax polish. I use Saphir and swear by it, but Kiwi's fine too.

When I was done, I couldn't believe how good the 2nd pair of Sebagos looked. The perfect chocolate brown. What every guy who buys Cigar Shell Aldens thinks they're going to look like, except that they never quite nail it. Me included. I wish my Cigar chukkas were this color. I wish all my shoes were this color. My furniture too. 

I have a pair of Alden's now-discontinued 725 long vamp loafers in dark brown calf, and their brown is truly sublime. That's what these re-dyed Sebagos look like. Of course, you put your nose right up to the leather and the Aldens have a more uniform and refined appearance -- the Sebagos are, after all, a cheap $6 dye job by a guy who doesn't know what the hell he's doing. But they come a lot closer than they should. Like, 90% close. Farther than a few feet, you can't really tell one from the other. And compared to the dye job on the orginal Weejuns, forget it, no contest, these look better. Weejuns weren't high-end loafers and neither are these $50 eBay Sebagos. But with a $6 dye job, they look like $600 loafers. Nothing AE's selling these days looks as good as this brown. 

Moral of story: if you've got a pair of cheap Sebagos/Bass/etc. and just want to dull the plasticky finish and brown them up a bit, do the alcohol/polish routine. Takes less than an hour, makes the shoes look a lot better. But if you want the real thing -- rich, deep, chocolate brown -- get some Feibing's dye and prepare to be stunned.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

The Continental Fop said:


> ....since I was not exactly artisanal in my shoe dyeing technique)....


 :icon_smile_big: Love it! 
But who is? I'm the same, I'm so keen to see the finished result that I get dye and polish everywhere! :icon_smile_big:


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

One comment: You've saved me from giving up entirely on penny loafers. The ones that fit the best and have the best styling, always seem to have the worst finish & colour.

One request: Can you post some photos?


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

^ +1. 

I'd love to see some photos. As DD knows, I have been searching (and searching) to buy a pair of good casual loafers and if these really look as you say they do, I will definitely buy a pair of sebagos and try your procedure.

On a side note, I went to a SAS factory store in austin yesterday and tried on their penny loafers. They are truly amazing. Supremely comfortable than any of my aldens (and every other shoe I have) and the fit is spectacular. Now I understand why the good DocD writes essays about positive fit. I bought a pair in cordovan color and wearing them as I write this. The leather is a bit glossy indeed, but not as bad as today's sebago/bass. I strongly believe that will take up polish after some use. At $160 (+tax), they are a great buy. I urge all penny loafer fans to give SAS a try. SAS does have shoes with much better leathers and if they make the pennys in the same leather they use for their 'side gore' model, we will have the best loafers ever.

Interestingly, I also tried on alden 986 (shell cordovan) at Texas Clothiers before I went to the SAS store, and did not buy them. I tried 3 different sizes and widths and none fit satisfactorily. They looked amazing though and having seen one on person now, I wish I found a pair that fit me. I'dve bought a pair just for the looks had they fit ...


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Every time I try to take pics of clothing/shoes for eBay etc I'm just appalled at my results. I have a decent Canon point and shoot and I don't use flash but for some reason I never get the kind of catalog-quality shots some of you guys do. I'll keep trying, and if I can manage to get some shots worthy of these shoes, I'll post them.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

I hear you. The Cayman 2's are extremely comfortable loafers, even when compared with much more expensive shoes. They're even more comfortable then the Bass Logan, another favorite cheap loafer of mine that is nonetheless not as comfortable as the Sebago.

To me, the Alden 725 is the perfect brown calf loafer. I can't fathom why they discontinued it, except that maybe they were coming out with the calf version of the LHS and didn't want to confuse people with loafers too similar to one another. Regardless, I think the 725 is an amazing loafer, and the template, really, for what I'm trying to dupe with these ham-fisted cheap loafer hacks. The Feibing's Chocolate re-dyed Sebago comes mighty close, and at a bargain price.



Doctor Damage said:


> One comment: You've saved me from giving up entirely on penny loafers. The ones that fit the best and have the best styling, always seem to have the worst finish & colour.
> 
> One request: Can you post some photos?


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

The Continental Fop said:


> Every time I try to take pics of clothing/shoes for eBay etc I'm just appalled at my results. I have a decent Canon point and shoot and I don't use flash but for some reason I never get the kind of catalog-quality shots some of you guys do. I'll keep trying, and if I can manage to get some shots worthy of these shoes, I'll post them.


TCF, for me, the pics come out best when I take them in a diffused natural light setting. Here is my suggestion for good results: Place your shoes in a room where sunlight comes in, but don't keep the shoes directly in sunlight. The room should not be overly bright either ... use a tripod if you can. Don't use flash for the pictures. 'Museum mode' works great in these occasions (use a good ISO setting, but not the highest in your camera - to reduce noise) ... the museum mode is usually indicated by a buidling icon on the settings wheel ... hope this helps.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I'm doing the same thing with a pair of LL Bean handsewn boat shoes (i.e. boats shoes made with disgusting, shiny red weejun leather).


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

The Continental Fop said:


> Every time I try to take pics of clothing/shoes for eBay etc I'm just appalled at my results.


I dunno, you did pretty damn good photographing those Alden ankle boots in your original post. Give it a try.



The Continental Fop said:


> To me, the Alden 725 is the perfect brown calf loafer. I can't fathom why they discontinued it, except that maybe they were coming out with the calf version of the LHS and didn't want to confuse people with loafers too similar to one another. Regardless, I think the 725 is an amazing loafer, and the template, really, for what I'm trying to dupe with these ham-fisted cheap loafer hacks. The Feibing's Chocolate re-dyed Sebago comes mighty close, and at a bargain price.


I don't think I know what those Alden 725 shoes are. Does anyone have any photos, or links to photos, of the Alden 725?



srivats said:


> On a side note, I went to a SAS factory store in austin yesterday and tried on their penny loafers. They are truly amazing. Supremely comfortable than any of my aldens (and every other shoe I have) and the fit is spectacular. I bought a pair in cordovan color and wearing them as I write this. The leather is a bit glossy indeed, but not as bad as today's sebago/bass. I strongly believe that will take up polish after some use. At $160 (+tax), they are a great buy. I urge all penny loafer fans to give SAS a try. SAS does have shoes with much better leathers and if they make the pennys in the same leather they use for their 'side gore' model, we will have the best loafers ever.


Coincidently, I contacted SAS last week asking if they were planning to make them in the soft brown calf they use on their other models, and they said no. I asked if they could do a special make-up for me, but they said not at this time. I think they're missing an opportunity here. If I owned a shoe store, I would get them to make me a special run of their handsewn penny loafer in a matte brown calf. Those would rival anything from AE or Alden Cape Cod, possibly better in fact since they are much more supportive for the feet. I think it's an under-rated shoe in the "low end penny loafer" category, probably ranking at the high end of that category. The styling is conservative and out-of-date, which is also a plus in my books!

By the way, for information, here's the colours in which Fiebing's Leather Dye is offered:

https://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fiebingscolourskh0.jpg


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> Coincidently, I contacted SAS last week asking if they were planning to make them in the soft brown calf they use on their other models, and they said no. I asked if they could do a special make-up for me, but they said not at this time. I think they're missing an opportunity here. If I owned a shoe store, I would get them to make me a special run of their handsewn penny loafer in a matte brown calf. Those would rival anything from AE or Alden Cape Cod, possibly better in fact since they are much more supportive for the feet. *I think it's an under-rated shoe in the "low end penny loafer" category, probably ranking at the high end of that category*. The styling is conservative and out-of-date, which is also a plus in my books!


(emphasis mine)

I asked the same thing and the said no ... I also asked them if they would offer special make-ups if a retailer asked them to, and they said 'possibly not'. I mentioned AAAC to the store manager and said that if they offered the penny loafer in other leathers/colors, they'd sell a lot of shoes. The manager said he will look into it, but don't hold your breath.

Having experienced the shoes firsthand, I strongly recommend SAS over any loafer available today. The construction and the fit on my loafers is superb, and if they use nicer leathers they will sell really well. I will see if I can post a few pics sometime next week.


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## pweller (May 21, 2008)

Thanks for your post. I would like a bit of clarification as to how you removed the original finish, and exactly how much of the original finish you removed.

I experimented with alcohol and some ultrafine steel wool on my Sebago classics (in an inconspicuous area), and found that I could strip the black finish down to almost a tan color (similar color to what you see on the inside of the shoes). I stopped at this one small spot, though, because I was concerned that if I tried this on the whole shoe that I wouldn't be able to remove the finish evenly, especially around the details and sewn toe.

So, how much of the original finish did you remove? Did you start with a cordovan colored shoe?


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

Doctor Damage said:


> Coincidently, I contacted SAS last week asking if they were planning to make them in the soft brown calf they use on their other models, and they said no. I asked if they could do a special make-up for me, but they said not at this time. I think they're missing an opportunity here. If I owned a shoe store, I would get them to make me a special run of their handsewn penny loafer in a matte brown calf. Those would rival anything from AE or Alden Cape Cod, possibly better in fact since they are much more supportive for the feet. I think it's an under-rated shoe in the "low end penny loafer" category, probably ranking at the high end of that category. The styling is conservative and out-of-date, which is also a plus in my books!


I just looked up the SAS website--the penny loafer in question looks a dead ringer for some of the (Maine-made) Cole-Haan handsewns I owned back in the early '80s...Promising...and made in the States.:icon_smile:

hbs


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Doctor Damage said:


> ...I would get them to make me a special run of their handsewn penny loafer in a matte brown calf. Those would rival anything from AE or Alden Cape Cod, possibly better in fact since they are much more supportive for the feet. I think it's an under-rated shoe in the "low end penny loafer" category, probably ranking at the high end of that category.


That's high praise, as my Cape Cods are one of the most comfortable shoes I've worn.

I found a great Sebago in matte balf brown at the thrift store the other day, funny thing is that it didn't look all that old. I've tried searching around for the model etc, no luck.

For some reason--probably TOPH, or because they were the original penny loafer (were they?)--I've always thought there was something special about Bass pennies. Yet the more I see and wear other shoes the cheaper Weejuns feel. I've also seen lots of non-Bass low-end shoe companies with better offerings.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> Thanks for your post. I would like a bit of clarification as to how you removed the original finish, and exactly how much of the original finish you removed.


Continental Fop explained his method on the second page of this thread:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=62135



> I experimented with alcohol and some ultrafine steel wool on my Sebago classics (in an inconspicuous area), and found that I could strip the black finish down to almost a tan color (similar color to what you see on the inside of the shoes). I stopped at this one small spot, though, because I was concerned that if I tried this on the whole shoe that I wouldn't be able to remove the finish evenly, especially around the details and sewn toe.


Interesting. I have a pair of black Sebagos and I would like to do something more drastic with them. The black colour pooled into the creases and stitching might actually give them an antiqued look, like years of using a darker shoe polish on light coloured shoes. Stripping the black down to a muddy tan, then dying with a dark brown or something, might create a nice effect. My only concern about getting too aggressive with the alcohol would be to damage the mocc stitching, but I'm probably worrying too much.



> So, how much of the original finish did you remove? Did you start with a cordovan colored shoe?


I believe Fop started with the cordovan colour, and discovered the base dye was a strong red colour. But read the thread I linked above.



> That's high praise, as my Cape Cods are one of the most comfortable shoes I've worn.


I don't want to pump them too much, since the shiny leather is still the achilles heel. But they're good, as good as the AE Hanovers I had until recently in terms of construction, fit, and quality of leather used on the soles. If only SAS would use a matte leather for the uppers they would have a damn good shoe on their hands, although I see no reason why the alcohol treatment wouldn't work on the current SAS.

I have some photos of vintage SAS and other penny loafers on this thread:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=84475



> I found a great Sebago in matte balf brown at the thrift store the other day, funny thing is that it didn't look all that old. I've tried searching around for the model etc, no luck.


Sebago did offer the Cayman II in a dark tan colour until a year ago (or thereabouts). You still see the odd one on eBay once in a while. It's worth noting it was a matte leather, not brush-off nor the shiny "English tan" offered by Brooks Brothers (my God, those look horrible).


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Steel wool may be too harsh for what we're trying to do here. On my 1st pair of Sebagos, when I wasn't satisfied with the efficacy of using a rag and some rubbing alcohol to remove the red dye, I went at the shoes with an abrasive Scotch Brite pad. I was able to get more of the dye off, but it did leave scrapes and an uneven stripping effect on the leather. I don't recommend it. Better, I feel, to remove the plasticky topcoat with the rag and alcohol, then apply dark shoe dye for full coverage. Let the dye dry overnight, rub the leather smooth, and reapply the dye for another night's drying. Then you may polish the shoes up and see a much smoother and more consistent coverage than I did with my abraded Sebagos.



pweller said:


> Thanks for your post. I would like a bit of clarification as to how you removed the original finish, and exactly how much of the original finish you removed.
> 
> I experimented with alcohol and some ultrafine steel wool on my Sebago classics (in an inconspicuous area), and found that I could strip the black finish down to almost a tan color (similar color to what you see on the inside of the shoes). I stopped at this one small spot, though, because I was concerned that if I tried this on the whole shoe that I wouldn't be able to remove the finish evenly, especially around the details and sewn toe.
> 
> So, how much of the original finish did you remove? Did you start with a cordovan colored shoe?


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## pweller (May 21, 2008)

In essence, it sounds like you stripped off part of the original finish, and applied more color overtop.

I think that the shoes are basically just 'painted', in that the finish sits on top of the leather. If they were 'dyed', then I think the black color would be visible on the inside of the shoes (at least in mine, which are not lined).

On my black shoes, I suspect that there is just one coat of 'paint' on the shoes, alcohol treatment isn't removing a top/plasticy coat, it is just removing the shine by melting the surface. I think that part of the plasticy look is from the very even finish - too perfect for real leather.

Steel wool for many people sounds very harsh, but I'm not talking Brillo pad material. You can get it in 0000 grade, which is used for final finishing work on furniture. It's very fine, but just doesn't get clogged like cloth will. Actually, just using the fine steel wool also knock down the shine on your shoes, but it wasn't exactly what I was looking for.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

FOP- When you go over the shoes with alcohol did it just take the shine off? or did it strip the color off?

I was successful in striping a bright red (sorry "burgundy") down to a red-tinted raw leather color.
Though, I'm not planning on dying or polishing them darker, so it's hard getting an even strip with just alcohol. 

After all the drinks I've had spilled on my shoes over the years, I'm surprised I didn't come by this sooner.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

The alcohol takes the shine off, and a fair amount of the red (my pair of Sebagos is that hideous non-brushoff "cordovan", which isn't oxblood at all but rather clown nose red). I don't know that you can strip the color completely off -- it is pigment, after all, that has been allowed to soak down to the base layer of the leather. You might abrade the leather down to that base layer, but then you would wind up with uppers so thin you could see your socks through them. Not what we're after here.

No, better to simply remove the plasticky to layer, open up the pores of the leather, and apply a new layer of darker dye for uniform coverage. Worked a charm for me, and I hope it helps some of you guys who are barking up this same tree.



Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> FOP- When you go over the shoes with alcohol did it just take the shine off? or did it strip the color off?
> 
> I was successful in striping a bright red (sorry "burgundy") down to a red-tinted raw leather color.
> Though, I'm not planning on dying or polishing them darker, so it's hard getting an even strip with just alcohol.
> ...


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Like all other open-source projects, the cheap weejun color hack is one of perpetual discovery and refinement. If you can successfully strip the original color off completely without rendering the leather unsatisfactorily smooth in appearance when re-dyed and polished, I will gladly put my Sebagos back under the knife and try your method. My hack was merely an improvement over the older method of alcohol/cream/polish, but if one of us can manage to strip the dye off these cheap weejuns completely, that will be a big step forward.



pweller said:


> In essence, it sounds like you stripped off part of the original finish, and applied more color overtop.
> 
> I think that the shoes are basically just 'painted', in that the finish sits on top of the leather. If they were 'dyed', then I think the black color would be visible on the inside of the shoes (at least in mine, which are not lined).
> 
> ...


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## pweller (May 21, 2008)

It sounds like your shoes may have 2 colors, maybe a base coat dye with a top coat of color. My black ones are just one coat. Here's a photo of what I was talking about. This is using 0000 steel wool and alcohol. I suppose you could get the same effect using a rag, it would probably just take longer.

There is a slight texture to the leather that is revealed. I wonder if doing this to the whole shoe and then dyeing it would look good. I suppose I could just as easily find flaws in the leather that the black paint hides, and the whole idea could be out the window. It seems like it would be a lot of work, and maybe something to try on a thrift store find.

This is pretty easy to hide and undo, because it isn't in a very visible spot.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

That doesn't look too bad, at least not as scratched as I thought.

I good luck with the black, I have a ultra cheap, beat to heck pair of Shell tassles I'd love to turn from black to brown.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Very impressive stripping. I only wish the red dye on my "cordovan" Sebagos was that simple to remove. Even after some seriously hard scrubbing with an alcohol-soaked Scotch Brite adrasive pad, the red looked as though it ran all the way through the leather. Maybe the red dye sinks in deeper than the black? Who knows.

Tell you what, though. I'm going to take some 0000 steel wool and some alcohol to that first pair of Caymans for another stab at this. I like the reddish mahogany color they are now, but I do prefer the chocolate brown I got from the Fiebing's dye.



pweller said:


> It sounds like your shoes may have 2 colors, maybe a base coat dye with a top coat of color. My black ones are just one coat. Here's a photo of what I was talking about. This is using 0000 steel wool and alcohol. I suppose you could get the same effect using a rag, it would probably just take longer.
> 
> There is a slight texture to the leather that is revealed. I wonder if doing this to the whole shoe and then dyeing it would look good. I suppose I could just as easily find flaws in the leather that the black paint hides, and the whole idea could be out the window. It seems like it would be a lot of work, and maybe something to try on a thrift store find.
> 
> This is pretty easy to hide and undo, because it isn't in a very visible spot.


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## pweller (May 21, 2008)

The Continental Fop said:


> Very impressive stripping. I only wish the red dye on my "cordovan" Sebagos was that simple to remove. Even after some seriously hard scrubbing with an alcohol-soaked Scotch Brite adrasive pad, the red looked as though it ran all the way through the leather. Maybe the red dye sinks in deeper than the black? Who knows.


I think that there are two ways to color leather, probably just as there are two ways to finish wood. Dye will penetrate the leather, where paint will sit on top. I think that your cordovan shoes are probably dyed red first, then painted second, at least based on your description.

Of course, I think the best leather is 'drum dyed', which means the hides are soaked in dye and the color therefore goes all the way through. The benefit is that even if the leather gets scratched, it still looks OK. So, these re-color techniques probably wouldn't work on drum-dyed leather. (Shell may be drum-dyed, I don't know for sure.)

One other wild thought: I have a book on furniture finishing, in the book they talk about how to change the color of stained wood. They say "to neutralize red, apply its complementary color - green - over it." I know it sounds weird to take green dye to your cordovan shoes, but that might be worth a try on a real pair of beaters. I think if you just apply brown overtop of the red, you'll always end up with a dark reddish-brown color (which isn't necessarily bad, but maybe isn't what your after.) And, yeah, it might turn out really bad.

I don't have a real bad pair of shoes to try this on, otherwise I'd probably throw caution to the wind. :icon_smile:


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

pweller said:


> I don't have a real bad pair of shoes to try this on, otherwise I'd probably throw caution to the wind.


That what beaten down shoes from eBay are for: destroying in the name of science!

I have the Sebago Classics in black. I never got close to wearing away the finish like Pweller did (in his photo) and I don't really want to. But if I pick up a pair in the Antiqued Brown I will certainly give them the treatment and see what comes up. I kind of want a reddish colour, actually.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

*My try*

I tried my own version of this color hack on a pair of black corrected-grain Loake Chelsea boots - I think they were from the 1800 range?

Anyhow - I basically just gave them a thorough scrubbing with rubbing alcohol and then polished them with black Synovia cream.

They look better than before but I'm still a bit disappointed. The rubbing alcohol may have dulled the plastic coating a bit at best. I'm inclined to think that all the rubbing alcohol did was to remove 4 years worth of cream and polish.

Any thoughts on what I could be doing differently to make more significant progress?

Is the quality of this corrected grain perhaps a bit better than that of the leather used on $115 Weejuns?

FWIW, these boots have seen decent wear over the past four years; they are on their second set of soles. While the shine of the corrected grain has always been a bit annoying and obvious to me, I haven't noticed any other ill effects from the grain correction process. The creases are no worse than those on my good calf shoes and there hasn't been any flaking or other odd wear characteristics...


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm not sure if the Cayman II is corrected grain or not. But I do know that merely wiping shoes down with rubbing alcohol and then applying shoe cream alone is not going to do much to cover up the underlying color or alter it much. Shoe cream is by nature more of a conditioner than a colorant/sealer like a good wax polish. 

I'd give it another go, but this time clean your shoes thoroughly with saddle soap, then wipe them with a rag and alcohol, then after the shoes are fully dried, apply some quality black wax polish like Saphir, Kiwi, Lincoln, etc.

I will say this though: I have never been as successful at getting black dress shoes to look good as I have been with brown. I've come to accept that the best that black calf shoes can look is pretty good, and that's if you religiously clean and polish them before every wearing. Which is one of the reasons I don't wear black shoes anymore except for ninja assignments.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

The Continental Fop said:


> I will say this though: I have never been as successful at getting black dress shoes to look good as I have been with brown. I've come to accept that the best that black calf shoes can look is pretty good, and that's if you religiously clean and polish them before every wearing. *Which is one of the reasons I don't wear black shoes anymore except for ninja assignments.*


... those and your standard weddings and interviews. I have just one pair of black shoes (captoe oxfords), and I wear it maybe 2 times a year. My brown and cordovan shoes get a lot of wear.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

This has been an extremely good thread. Those of your who have participated please remember it so when the question comes up again we can post links.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

The Louche said:


> I'm inclined to think that all the rubbing alcohol did was to remove 4 years worth of cream and polish.


Even still, that might not be a bad thing to now know.

I have a cheap thrift store, pair of shell loafers I'm trying to restore.
Part of the problem (besides looking like the previous wearer spent his days kicking jagged rocks with them) is that they have decades of polish build up, I've spent hours trying to rub it off, but the results aren't great (really it just seems to rub it in more).

I might try rubbing alcohol.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

ConFop: When you stripped down your 'cordovan' Sebagos, is this (more or less) the colour that was revealed?

https://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sebago10b.jpg


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

My attempts...

a couple caveats:
These are LLB heavy-duty handsewn boat shoes. 
When I got them they had a very shiny, very red finish to them and the leather was heavy and stiff (like a weejun, in fact more like a weejun than my Sebago loafers).
To try and break them in/dull them I've been wearing them pretty hard, in the snow, in the yard etc, so the "before" pic here is significantly duller than how they arrived.
In both case, the leather looks lighter and less red in the picture thani n person.

I stripped the shoe for the first time a few days ago, I was pretty through, and got it down to an even light brown color. 
Since then, the shoe has darkened up significantly, so I did a quick once-over with alcohol right before I snapped this picture.

The dark spots on the shoe are places where the alcohol is still wet (not places where the dye wasn't removed, though I had plenty of those that I attacked with a toothbrush).
If I leave the shoe to set and re-hydrate for a few days it takes on a nice even light brown color.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Oh dear lord no -- when I stripped my "cordovan" (non-brushoff) Sebagos they were red. RED. Not reddish brown. RED.

If they looked like the shoes in your pic, I would've been happy to leave them as is. No, the shoes were so red that my wife, who doesn't really care about what shoes I wear, commented upon first seeing them, "Hmm, those shoes are pretty, um, _red, _aren't they?"

I think the shoes themselves are great. Very comfortable, well-made, good leather, and they seem to be holding up very well (although the heels wear down faster than my Aldens, so I see new/better heels in the near future, not a bad thing probably).

What the world needs is for Alden to offer a "recession loafer". Simple brown calf, in the Weejun mode, call it $200. Not an uncobblable Cape Cod. A real Alden, no-frills, two hundred bucks. Then we wouldn't be talking about hacking Sebagos and Basses.



Doctor Damage said:


> ConFop: When you stripped down your 'cordovan' Sebagos, is this (more or less) the colour that was revealed?
> 
> https://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sebago10b.jpg


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

The Continental Fop said:


> Oh dear lord no -- when I stripped my "cordovan" (non-brushoff) Sebagos they were red. RED. Not reddish brown. RED. If they looked like the shoes in your pic, I would've been happy to leave them as is.


Okay, I was wondering. Because I agree that the colour in my photo is just fine. It's the antiqued brown, but the new version is much darker (so I understand). Perhaps stripping down a pair to the red and then using a reddish brown shoe dye would do the trick.



> I think the shoes themselves are great. Very comfortable, well-made, good leather, and they seem to be holding up very well (although the heels wear down faster than my Aldens, so I see new/better heels in the near future, not a bad thing probably).


I've almost destroyed the soles of my black Classics, with only two long walks in wet weather. Normally I would apply topy but it just doesn't seem worth it at this price point.



> What the world needs is for Alden to offer a "recession loafer". Simple brown calf, in the Weejun mode, call it $200. Not an uncobblable Cape Cod. A real Alden, no-frills, two hundred bucks.


YES. You are RIGHT.

But they won't do it. I'm sure our forum member retailers will come up with all sorts of reasons why. But I think it comes down to an unwillingness to think outside the box.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Doctor Damage said:


> I've almost destroyed the soles of my black Classics, with only two long walks in wet weather. Normally I would apply topy but it just doesn't seem worth it at this price point.


This surprises me. I purchased a pair of Sebago Classics two years ago and they have been wearing like iron. I wear them probably 3 times a week, and even wear them on consecutive days if it is foul weather so that I do not ruin an expensive shoe. This is also my sockless weekend throw on shoe. I think the oiled leather sole and steel shank are great. I could live without the hard plastic heel.

After two years and one month of abuse, I just noticed this morning the first wearing through on the sole. Now I am torn because I only paid about $35 new on ebay, but most cobblers charge $55 for new soles and heels. I guess I should start searching ebay.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

I like the idea of "recession loafers". I'd love to have alden quality and nicer leathers in a lesser priced casual loafer.

Update on my SAS loafers - been wearing them a lot since I got them since they are so damned comfortable. Never needed any "breaking in" since they fit perfectly the first time I wore it. They are showing fine creases like calf and the shine is going down. From what it looks, I should have a perfect looking loafers in about two months, maybe I'll do a review then with "New" and "worn" pics.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

srivats said:


> Update on my SAS loafers - been wearing them a lot since I got them since they are so damned comfortable. Never needed any "breaking in" since they fit perfectly the first time I wore it. They are showing fine creases like calf and the shine is going down. From what it looks, I should have a perfect looking loafers in about two months, maybe I'll do a review then with "New" and "worn" pics.


Keep us posted, and get some photos up if you can.

I think one of us does this blog: https://www.theweejun.com/. I recommend checking it out since the author has done a "cheap Weejun hack" much like ConFop and has come up with some good results (see photo below). I would be happy to have shoes that looked like this when done!

https://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=myweejunscolorhack.jpg


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

DD, I like that blog! Thanks for sharing.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

DD, I found one of your old posts (with pics) about SAS penny loafers:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=376196&postcount=7

My loafers started out looking exactly like those in the 2nd set of pics, but the finish is starting to somewhat dull. They are still shiny and with a good buffing, the shine comes back almost fully. But I think they will end up looking like the first pic in 2 months' time.

I haven't tried out a recent bass or sebago and I think it will be good to compare them with SAS. I spoke with zappos customser service, and they said that the Bass Logan was the *only non-shiny* shoe offered by Bass. I then searched for sebago loafers and noticed that sebago makes 2 brown loafers in non-shiny leathers - sadly only with rubber soles:

(click on pics for link to zappos site):

1. Sebago sherman (brown, waxy pull-up - not sure if the brown is corrected or full grain):



Here is a pic from sebago's website:

2. Sebago Arcus (waterproof full grain leather):



I am still deciding between the Bass Gilman and the above 2 shoes. Anyone owning the sebago arcus or sherman?


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Cool blog, and flattered the author tried the color hack I described. His shoes turned out quite different than mine, though -- whether it's the different dye or his use of shoe cream rather than a wax polish, his shoes look like old shoes while mine look new. I'm guessing, though, given the commentary on the blog, he's going after more of a vintage look than I am.


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## Baracuta1965 (Feb 7, 2009)

Hi Guys, I should not have been surprised that one of you discovered my new blog (TheWeejun.com) even before I'd had a chance to make my first post on this forum!

Thanks for the props..

Mr Fop - I think you are quite right that the dye may have been the cause of the more vintage look. Fieblings is harder to find in the UK. There is someone who sells all colours on Ebay UK but of course that takes a few days and you all know what it's like when you decide to do some 'shoe hacking', there's no time like the present. For that read: impatient fool.

Also I thought that as the rubbing alcohol had worked so well on the gloss that if I made a boo boo I could always try rubbing them down again.

The dye I used is well known to the British and like many typically half assed UK products only seems to come in a minimal variety of unexciting colours. I chose their 'Medium Brown' for this experiment, as opposed to an American product that would have been called 'New Hampshire Autumn Chestnut' or something.

I haven't mentioned it yet on theweejun.com but I have a pair of black post Wilton weejuns that I bought nearly new on Ebay US simply because the photos made the shoes and the leather look near perfect. When they arrived I was very impressed with the quality of leather used on this pair and they look stunning. In fact they are the first black shoes I've bought in many a year. The thing is that the Wilton shoes are better made in general but as has been mentioned on here before, towards the end of the US made period the quality was already dumbing down, and the candy apple finish of the pair I hacked was actually shocking to me when I opened the USPS parcel! So it's definitely worth checking out offshore models that must have varied from year to year, customer to customer and factory to factory.

Did you post photos of your 'like new' finish CF? I would be interested to see the outcome compared to my 'vintage' look.

Cheers

Baracuta1965


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## epicuresquire (Feb 18, 2009)

Doctor Damage said:


> This has been an extremely good thread. Those of your who have participated please remember it so when the question comes up again we can post links.


Agreed.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Baracuta1965 said:


> Hi Guys, I should not have been surprised that one of you discovered my new blog (TheWeejun.com) even before I'd had a chance to make my first post on this forum!
> 
> Thanks for the props..
> 
> Baracuta1965


Welcome to the forum and...we are looking forward to your future contributions!


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

srivats said:


> DD, I found one of your old posts (with pics) about SAS penny loafers:
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=376196&postcount=7
> 
> My loafers started out looking exactly like those in the 2nd set of pics, but the finish is starting to somewhat dull. They are still shiny and with a good buffing, the shine comes back almost fully. But I think they will end up looking like the first pic in 2 months' time.
> ...


Keep in mind the SAS shoes are far better quality than Bass or Sebago, even with the glossy uppers. They are made by a company that specialized in orthopedic footwear. Set your pair on a table (or flat surface) and look at them from behind: you will see the heels are trapezoidal in shape, i.e. wider at the bottom. If Alan Flusser is to be believed, this is a stability feature only found in high-end footwear. It's certainly a very strange thing to see on affordable penny loafers.



srivats said:


> I spoke with zappos customser service, and they said that the Bass Logan was the *only non-shiny* shoe offered by Bass. I then searched for sebago loafers and noticed that sebago makes 2 brown loafers in non-shiny leathers - sadly only with rubber soles:
> 
> 1. Sebago sherman (brown, waxy pull-up - not sure if the brown is corrected or full grain):
> 
> ...


Zappos is a bit misleading. Sebago in fact offers the Classic (with leather soles) in two additional colours Zappos does not carry: brown B76643 and whiskey B76660. The former is apparently a matte/waxy finish. Neither seem to be available from internet stores so you would probably have to order them right from the Sebago website (at full price). I haven't seem them in real life, but from photos it appears neither would have to be "hacked". I've posted photos of them in a thread somewhere on Sebagos; the search function should find it.



Baracuta1965 said:


> I haven't mentioned it yet on theweejun.com but I have a pair of black post Wilton weejuns that I bought nearly new on Ebay US simply because the photos made the shoes and the leather look near perfect. When they arrived I was very impressed with the quality of leather used on this pair and they look stunning. In fact they are the first black shoes I've bought in many a year. The thing is that the Wilton shoes are better made in general but as has been mentioned on here before, towards the end of the US made period the quality was already dumbing down, and the candy apple finish of the pair I hacked was actually shocking to me when I opened the USPS parcel! So it's definitely worth checking out offshore models that must have varied from year to year, customer to customer and factory to factory.


The Weejuns I dismantled (photos in my "moccasin construction" thread) were made offshore and dated from about the year 2000 -- the leather on those was excellent. Well, the word excellent may be pushing it, but they were far, far better than anything offered now and they were not glossy at all. I would take another pair of those instantly (in a better size). It's unfortunate quality has varied so much with this brand over the years.

Another option I've been pondering is this: buy the current Weejun/Logan in "tan" and dye them with dark brown or something. From photos the tan model seems to have a matte, semi-full grain finish which would probably accept shoe dye successfully. Any thoughts?


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

DD, that was a well thought out reply. Thank you.



Doctor Damage said:


> Another option I've been pondering is this: buy the current Weejun/Logan in "tan" and dye them with dark brown or something. From photos the tan model seems to have a matte, semi-full grain finish which would probably accept shoe dye successfully. Any thoughts?


This was exactly what I had in mind when I posted the 2 sebagos above. Sounds like a good plan.


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## ds23pallas (Aug 22, 2006)

Baracuta1965 said:


> ...So it's definitely worth checking out offshore models that must have varied from year to year, customer to customer and factory to factory.
> 
> Baracuta1965


This has been my experience with late model, off-shore Weejuns. A few years ago I bought some made in Brazil Weejuns ($34 CDN at the Bay) that turned out to be utter crap. About a year ago I purchased a pair made in the DR that I wear regularly and they are holding up very well indeed. Yes the leather is still corrected grain and all that but they were only $59 US at Nordstrom Rack. I can attest that the heel last longer than those of a Cape Cod loafer... Anyway, here they are after I dumbed down the goofy gloss:

and without flash

It's very easy to remove the gloss and and overly dark paint Bass uses with a light squirt of oven cleaner. Afterwards I conditioned the leather and polished with "khaki" coloured shoe cream. A little bit of the dark colour is still visible in the top picture on the strap of the left shoe.

No harm has come to the lowly Weejun from my experimentation with harsh chemicals. Perhaps with time the stitching may protest but I think by that time the soles will be done and a new pair purchased. I like these Weejuns (the "Leavitt" model), a beater shoe that sits by the door without trees or much care at all, ready to go at a moment's notice.


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## Clay J (Apr 29, 2008)

Would using acetone seriously destroy the leather? I could see the acetone stripping off the coating with ease, and or turning the leather to mush. Would it dry out the leather?


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## Baracuta1965 (Feb 7, 2009)

> No harm has come to the lowly Weejun from my experimentation with harsh chemicals. Perhaps with time the stitching may protest but I think by that time the soles will be done and a new pair purchased. I like these Weejuns (the "Leavitt" model), a beater shoe that sits by the door without trees or much care at all, ready to go at a moment's notice.


Nice effect DS23pallas (which is a great car too btw). In my long personal experience with shoemakers, there are so many variables that it's easy to pick up a 'friday' pair or a super quality pair. Mostly these choices are down the customer (the stores) who can and do eliminate as much as possible from many products in order to meet price points. For this reason you will huge discrepencies between regular models (like Churchs appalling bookbinder shoes) and export models (which are more likely to made of french calf).

When you add in second hand to the mix as on Ebay it's hard to know the provenance of whatever you are buying so best thing is to go on photos and if you strike out, then you can always sell them again.

Being in based in England though, you do take a hit on the shipping costs!

Clay J: I think acetone is pretty harsh when alcohol works so well if applied with some vigour...

Baracuta1965


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Just a short note on my black Sebago Classics: I'm getting annoyed with them, due to (1) a fold in the leather which is rubbing on my one foot, (2) the waxy soles have almost worn away after only a half-dozen long walks, and (3) the overall cheapness of the leather. I will "deconstruct" them this spring and post photos.

I think I will trend away from loafers for a while. Once I have a few more oxfords under my belt, then I'll try again. Almost no stores sell classic loafers in Canada anymore, anyway, except for the odd tassel loafer.

I'm fascinated by the stripping-and-dying technique, though, and am eager to try it eventually. Anything that gives cheap loafers a new lease on life is a good thing.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

I stopped at my local shoe repair place today, to pick up an old pair of penny loafers in for repair, and I noticed he was selling Fiebings products. Apparently it's pronounced "fee-bings", for trivia fans. Anyway, the company also sells a stripping solution which removes polish and tanning treatments to prepare leather for dyes. So if you guys are trying this with a good pair of shoes, I suggest getting some of that stripping stuff too.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

It's that "de-glazing" stuff, right? My guy was all out of it when I stopped in and bought the chocolate dye. I really should order some and re-do these shoes from the ground up. I bet they'd look even better stripped down to the natural leather color and _then_ dyed chocolate brown.



Doctor Damage said:


> I stopped at my local shoe repair place today, to pick up an old pair of penny loafers in for repair, and I noticed he was selling Fiebings products. Apparently it's pronounced "fee-bings", for trivia fans. Anyway, the company also sells a stripping solution which removes polish and tanning treatments to prepare leather for dyes. So if you guys are trying this with a good pair of shoes, I suggest getting some of that stripping stuff too.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I took a whack at a hack on a pair of almost new corrected-grain, massively shiny Weejuns the other night. Two applications of rubbing alcohol with cotton balls, then neutral shoe cream.

The dye comes right off on the balls, it's amazing.

I applied, I didn't rub hard. I'm not looking to strip the things down to that pinkish, piebald look I've seen on other experiments. I just wanted to get rid of the plasticky look.

Before: They don't look too shiny here but trust me, they were.










First app of rubbing ETOH:










Second app:










After shoe cream, a swipe with a chamois, and a night to rest; in the cold light of dawn:


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## Reds & Tops (Feb 20, 2009)

Patrick06790 said:


> I took a whack at a hack on a pair of almost new corrected-grain, massively shiny Weejuns the other night. Two applications of rubbing alcohol with cotton balls, then neutral shoe cream.
> 
> The dye comes right off on the balls, it's amazing.
> 
> ...


I'm very glad this thread exists. While I too would love to see a "recession special" Alden, this experiment seems like a good 2nd. I'll be purchasing a pair next time I get to a Bass outlet and will post my results as well.

Thanks all!


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