# When is Topy or rubber top and corner taps to be applied on leather shoe sole?



## hellomarty (May 9, 2009)

Does one apply the Topy and taps right when the shoe is new? I'm not sure if it's correct, but the rubber layer that goes on the toe to half of the shoe's leather soles are called Topy?

Or do I wear the shoes for some time? I'm preparing to take care of my future John Lobbs oxford.

By the way, I never deal with snow, just pavement and the office carpet.

Thanks for your advice!


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## Blackl3232 (Aug 23, 2008)

I've never gotten them myself, but I think you need to wear the shoes for a little while before they put Topy on so it adheres better.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

While I certainly have nothing against Topys and have them on several pair of my shoes, many (or most) of the purists in these fora would counsel against applying Topys to the soles of a pair of John Lobb's. However the application of nylon toe and heel taps to reduce the wear rate to those areas of your shoes, is an excellent idea and should be done, almost immediatly upon receipt of your new shoes. Should you chose to go with Topys, that should also be done fairly soon to minimize wearing down the soles. Hope you enjoy those new Lobb's for many years to come!


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

*Are you crazy?*

DO NOT APPLY TOPY ON JOHN LOBB'S, IT IS ILLEGAL, 10 YEARS PRISON SENTENCE MINIMUM.

Concerning when to apply Topy to shoes that are not John Lobb, I have heard that you are supposed to wear the shoes a few times and then apply Topy. Taps should be put on straight away.


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## hellomarty (May 9, 2009)

*wowzers*

Well, I guess I better put them on a Bottega Venetta weave right away then? Or is the B V not as cool as JL?



ToryBoy said:


> DO NOT APPLY TOPY ON JOHN LOBB'S, IT IS ILLEGAL, 10 YEARS PRISON SENTENCE MINIMUM.
> 
> Concerning when to apply Topy to shoes that are not John Lobb, I have heard that you are supposed to wear the shoes a few times and then apply Topy. Taps should be put on straight away.


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## Chi (Feb 15, 2009)

Regarding toe and heel taps, do they affect your footing at all? Meaning, do they make you slip more?


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

As long as the soles are firm you will get great value with sole guards. Manny people wait to long to apply them. In other words if you wait until the soles become soft or spongy then apply the sole guards they will wear out quickly. Lobb uses a hidden stitch when stitching the sole to the welt. That means they cut a thin layer of leather around the sole, fold it back, stitch the sole, then cover the stitches by folding the leather back over them. It won't take long for you to wear through the thin layer of leather protecting the stitching. Therefore, if you are thinking of having sole guards applied, do it ASAP.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

It's difficult for me to comprehend why: 

"Many (or most) of the purists in these fora would counsel against applying Topys to the soles of a pair of John Lobb's. "

I just examined a pair of J.M. Weston's at LeatherSoul in Honolulu. The metal taps were built into the toe as they were crafted. (But these were not Lobb's and hence I'm sure "The Purists" would find they're okay to modify)

So I'm sure "The Purists" have their reasons, (perhaps modifying a pair of Lobb's would be just plain sacrilege!) but besides loving and admiring my shoes I also wear them.

I only use metal taps and only on the toes of my shoes. My rational is that I can easily keep heals looking fresh by an infrequent trip to my cobbler. 

Something else worth mentioning for those who, like myself, don't care for the "Tapping" sound metal can cause. One only needs a very small metal tap at the toe. By doing this there's little if any sound, a smaller tap stays in place longer, and excessive wear is prevented.

Just had my cobbler install them on two new pairs of Aldens. (of course "The purists" might consider el cheapo Aldens okay to modify)

Bill Woodward
Portland, Oregon


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## Wrenkin (May 4, 2008)

Whenever I wait to put them on I always end up wrecking the soles, but then I live in a very hilly, very wet city, and actually walk places. You'd think the "purists" all live in death valley and walk all of 30' a day.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Chi said:


> Regarding toe and heel taps, do they affect your footing at all? Meaning, do they make you slip more?


I have not found the nylon/rubber toe and heel taps to degrade my footing to any substantial degree, they are not as noisy as metal taps and they help preserve the original look of your shoes.


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## hellomarty (May 9, 2009)

*what i was trying to ask...*

I guess one of my curiousities regarding the topy application is, if it's a brand new shoe, does the cobbler sand down some of the sole before the application?

That's why I wanted to know if I might as well "wear" it down on my own, or will that just make it uneven and cause some bubbling to occur...or possibly worse (or perhaps no difference) the cobbler will have to sand the sole down even more to make it even, so now the original sole is even thinner?

I figure I'll do it once, and when that wears down, use the original soles and when that's also gone, send it back for refurbishing with John Lobb.

About $450 for recrafting is what I was told by the shop.

Let's keep the advice/experiences rolling in!

Thanks again.

By the way, I use only rubber taps on the heel. I went and took them all off on my Allen Edmonds because I was told my some folks that I should wear down some of the heel so the taps would make the heel corner 'even' - is this so? The taps were worn anyway, so if it's better to have a full heel + rubber taps, I'll go put then back on all pairs.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

Your cobbler will still have to sand (rough) the surface whether they were worn or not. The reason for this is the cement adheres better to a light evenly roughed surface.


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

I agree. If you're going to get soles protected do it while there new.
All of my leather soled shoes get protected including my John Lobbs.
I apply nylon guards to heels and toes.
My shoes will never have to be resoled and heels will never wear out.
$450 seems like alot to spend on a refurb job.
Two refurbs would cost $900+. To me that's alot to spend on one pair of shoes. 
You could find a pair of John Lobbs discounted for the price of a refurb job.

Depending on how often you wear those JLs you may eat through the soles quickly. 
The leather soles on my John Lobbs are thin compared to my other shoes.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Crownship said:


> I agree. If you're going to get soles protected do it while there new.
> All of my leather soled shoes get protected including my John Lobbs.
> I apply nylon guards to heels and toes...


I agree on using sole guards. Unless you just buy shoes and keep them to look at rather than to wear I don't see an alternative unless you don't care about the cost and inconvenience of recrafting and don't mind sliding about. But aren't toe guards *and* a sole guard a bit excessive ? And is a heel guard really necessary unless it's a an all leather heel without a rubber quarter or dovetail? Do you also expect the sole guard and rubber part of the heel not to need to be replaced?


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

Hector Freemantle said:


> I agree on using sole guards. Unless you just buy shoes and keep them to look at rather than to wear I don't see an alternative unless you don't care about the cost and inconvenience of recrafting and don't mind sliding about. But aren't toe guards *and* a sole guard a bit excessive ? And is a heel guard really necessary unless it's a an all leather heel without a rubber quarter or dovetail? Do you also expect the sole guard and rubber part of the heel not to need to be replaced?


Yes, the sole guard will eventually need to be replaced, however:
1. The sole guard will outlast the leather sole.
2. Replacing the sole guard is much less expensive than replacing the leather sole.
3. By replacing the sole guards as needed you avoid having to remove the original sole which, if not done correctly will distort the foot-bed.

Aside from traction, those are the basic advantages of using sole guards.


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

Hector Freemantle said:


> I agree on using sole guards. Unless you just buy shoes and keep them to look at rather than to wear I don't see an alternative unless you don't care about the cost and inconvenience of recrafting and don't mind sliding about. But aren't toe guards *and* a sole guard a bit excessive ? And is a heel guard really necessary unless it's a an all leather heel without a rubber quarter or dovetail? Do you also expect the sole guard and rubber part of the heel not to need to be replaced?


It took me a moment to understand your question. I'll clear up what you're thinking.
When I apply sole protection I use 3M Safety Walk antislip tape that's 4" wide.
*Unlike a shoe repair shop that uses topy I don't cover the entire forepart of the sole just the 4" that contacts the ground.*

Putting a toe guard on top of topy would seem excessive but I'm sure some do it.

Regardless of heel type, all leather , dovetail or all rubber I always use guards. All heels regardless of type wear down. 
All forms of protection for heels and soles will wear down. Some faster than others.
When a rubber dovetail wears down the heel has to be replaced not just the rubber insert.

I buy guards in bulk from my shoe repair shop. It's much more economical and convenient to replace the guards for less than $1 per pair of shoes than to have someone replace the heels.
And I don't mind doing the work.
Also my heels don't ever get that ugly, unbalanced, uneven wear that makes dress shoes look cheap.










This has do be replaced alot quicker than topy but it's thin enough to feel like I'm still wearing leather not rubber soled shoes.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Ah, you are the one that uses the tape rather than a Topy. Each to his own of course but a 1 mm Topy or Vibram sole guard still retains the feel of a leather sole with a bit of traction and doesn't require a toe guard.

All my leather heels have rubber quarters rather than dovetails and these do not need to have the whole heel replaced, only the rubber piece. But even so it is never the whole heel - just the top leather piece.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Nick V said:


> Yes, the sole guard will eventually need to be replaced, however:
> 1. The sole guard will outlast the leather sole.
> 2. Replacing the sole guard is much less expensive than replacing the leather sole.
> 3. By replacing the sole guards as needed you avoid having to remove the original sole which, if not done correctly will distort the foot-bed.
> ...


I'm a sole guard devotee, Nick. I was talking about the apparent overkill of taps and guard used together.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

I get toe and heel taps put on before I wear them once.

I don't know why the cobbler needs to sand them - mine are nailed in not cemented.


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

Hector Freemantle said:


> Ah, you are the one that uses the tape rather than a Topy. Each to his own of course but a 1 mm Topy or Vibram sole guard still retains the feel of a leather sole with a bit of traction and doesn't require a toe guard.
> 
> All my leather heels have rubber quarters rather than dovetails and these do not need to have the whole heel replaced, only the rubber piece. But even so it is never the whole heel - just the top leather piece.


Recently I read in a thread from 2007 a member,( billiebob) that applied his own topy he purchased from his cobbler and used a Dremel tool to grind the sole edges. He did a good job.

The 3M tape was easy to locate online 5-7 years ago but not thin rubber sheets. Years ago I asked my cobbler to sell me some Topy sheets but he would only apply but not sell it.
So I went with what was easy to locate and worked.
Once I use up the 3M product I'm making the switch to something longer lasting and requires less maintainance.
I found a company online that sells 1mm-2mm rubber sheets that should work as a great replacement.


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## hellomarty (May 9, 2009)

My cobbler charges $40 for a pair for Topy installation, including rubber heel taps.

Average price?



Crownship said:


> Recently I read in a thread from 2007 a member,( billiebob) that applied his own topy he purchased from his cobbler and used a Dremel tool to grind the sole edges. He did a good job.
> 
> The 3M tape was easy to locate online 5-7 years ago but not thin rubber sheets. Years ago I asked my cobbler to sell me some Topy sheets but he would only apply but not sell it.
> So I went with what was easy to locate and worked.
> ...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

hellomarty said:


> My cobbler charges $40 for a pair for Topy installation, including rubber heel taps.
> 
> Average price?


That seems a little high. My local guy charges $23 (inc, tax) to install Topy's on a pair of shoes. Heel and toe taps are an additional $5.


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