# Suits for Interviews with Big Law Firms



## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

I am applying to over 200 law firms for summer associate positions next summer. They firms are mostly in California. I was told that my black Calvin Klein suit would not be appropriate for interviews, and I need a new suit within 2 weeks.
I learned that the rules for OCI suits are as follows:
Charcoal or Navy
Solid
100% wool
Flat front pants
White or light blue shirt
Pindot red or blue tie.
(THis info is from top-law-schools.com's OCI style thread)

I went to every suit shop in San Diego, and only found 1 suit that fit the bill in my size. Brooks Brothers had one, but it was way too much money.

I want to spend less than $350, and need to purchase my suit online. I have 3 suits I like below.

*Suit 1*
I am considering a Mantoni suit on ebay for 185 shipped
*Features:*
Super 140's, 100% Virgin Wool
Notch Lapel
Two flap pockets on jacket's bottom
One besom chest pocket, Four interior pockets
TWO front dark gray buttons
Four dark gray buttons vented sleeves
Dual side vents on back
Front slant pockets
Waist pants can be narrowed up to 4 inches and expanded up to 2 inches at your local tailoring or alterations store
Back besom pockets with button closure
Split waist construction
Zip fly with hook-and-bar and button-tab closures
















*Suit 2
*I am also considering a Baroni navy suit on clearance for $263 (ebay - Wizard of Aahs)
I think 3 buttons might be a problem?









*Suit 3
*The third suit I am considering is a 2 button Daniele for $365 shipped (ebay - Wizard of Aahs)









Which of these should I choose? Are there any other suits I should look at besides these ones?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Go with a 2 button. There are those here who swear by the wiz of ahh, however because of your timeline if you don't like what you get site unseen you will have to go with it as sending it back will cut into the tailoring time. Remember some alterations take time, eg. you may have to have the collar shortened etc.

While the suit you pick may have a conservative matte finish, then again it may have a bit too much shine as some Italian named suits tend to have.

The most important thing in a suit is fit. The second is fabric and the third is construction. I would not risk getting fabric that I could not actually see and feel, (again this would not be a problem if you had the time to order and return ,and if the second one had the right looking fabric, then go to the tailor). 

I recommend you hit the stores. Nordstrom's outlets are highly recommended. If you can't find one there you might also look at Jos Bank , particularly the Signature line, (which are always on sale between $200-275) as the solids are conservative in both cut and fabric (don't get the Signature Gold, which, although they have better fabric, they also , like your 3 button above, have pic stitching, which is thought by some to be too flashy).


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## Oliver711 (Jul 27, 2011)

Not sure if its the same in Cali - but Nordstrom is still having their Anniversary pre sale. (The last day of it is tomorrow!)

I was in yesterday, and they had some great prices on a variety of suits (and Allen Edmonds 'Park Avenue' Oxfords for $200!!)

I would recommend checking them out - go with Navy, two button. I would not go the eBay route - because what if you get a suit that fits well, but in order to fit perfectly it needs to have extensive alteration? With only two weeks you may not have the time.


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## DaveTrader (Jun 11, 2011)

Just an FYI - The Baroni and the Daniele are the same. ie. Daniele _is_ Baroni


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

Either 2 or 3 will be fine. 

Don't worry too much about what you wear. The fact that you're here and concerned puts you way ahead of your peers, not to mention the people interviewing you. (Spent long enough at BigLaw to see what a sartorial wasteland it is). 

Focus on three things:

&bull; Ensure your suit is tailored to fit well. Show cuff out the sleeve, jacket collar lies flat and shows shirt collar above it, waist supressed (but not too much), bottoms of trousers don't pool around your ankles. 

&bull; Wear decent shoes. For an interview lime this, it really means black captoes like an AE Park Avenue. And make sure they are polished, but perhaps not too shiny. 

&bull; Prepare substantively for your interviews, if there is such a thing for OCI. 

And if you're inclined to take a little risk, reverse the patterns: wear a white or blue ground shirt with an unobtrusive stripe or check. Pair it with a solid colored four-in-hand necktie with low light reflectivity (grenadine is ideal). You'll look subtly stand out as different from all the other clones you're competing against, at least the make ones. But not so different that anyone will leave saying: "forget the guy who wore the clown suit."

Good luck.


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

I bought some black AE Park Avenues last Thurs, and ordered a Baroni tonight. Jeff is 50 miles from me, so it should get here quick. If all goes well, I'll get a navy one from him too.


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## PatentLawyerNYC (Sep 21, 2007)

Good luck on your interviews. Tough market out there for young lawyers.


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## hsc89 (Oct 14, 2009)

I would not stress too much about your clothing choices for these interviews. Just make sure everything fits relatively well and is in good repair. A white shirt with a conservative tie is probably not a bad idea as well as decent looking pair of shoes but the most important thing to remember is that being well-groomed will carry much more weight in terms of an evaluation of your appearance than anything else. The people sitting across the table from you are not expecting to see someone dressed like they just made a partner - they are expecting to see a dedicated student who can't necessarily afford, at this point, or have the time to shop at the same stores they do. Good Luck!


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

The fact that you're thinking about wearing professionally-appropriate, low-key clothing is what matters. Big law firms are looking for people who are smart enough to do the work, hardworking enough to do a lot of it, and good enough at blending into a corporate/firm culture to avoid clashing with the partners or their clients. Some firms also want the person to be enjoyable, or at least tolerable, to spend many hours with; other firms seem not to care about this factor. The only thing clothes speak to is the third criterion.

Any of those suits shoudl suffice, _provided_ the trousers are not too snug or low-rise, and you don't have the jacket tailored down to a too-sung joke. Regardless of what TV shows and movies try to sell, law firms do not want you coming to work to flirt with secretaries, paralegals, or even other associates. Your sex appeal is irrelevant at best, and unwelcome at worst. You don't want to be a shapeless blog, but do not come in looking "hot."

FWIW, I'm a partner in a mid-sized firm, and started out in biglaw.


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks for the help thus far. I am excited about building a great wardrobe, but I am far from fashion knowledgeable. I grew up on a farm, and I never learned how to tie a tie properly. Any suggestions on methods to learn how to tie a tie? Which knot to use for a tall/slim man? How to get the "dimple" perfect?


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## USAF - 1 (Jun 12, 2011)

CuffDaddy said:


> The fact that you're thinking about wearing professionally-appropriate, low-key clothing is what matters. Big law firms are looking for people who are smart enough to do the work, hardworking enough to do a lot of it, and good enough at blending into a corporate/firm culture to avoid clashing with the partners or their clients. Some firms also want the person to be enjoyable, or at least tolerable, to spend many hours with; other firms seem not to care about this factor. The only thing clothes speak to is the third criterion.
> 
> Any of those suits shoudl suffice, _provided_ the trousers are not too snug or low-rise, and you don't have the jacket tailored down to a too-sung joke. Regardless of what TV shows and movies try to sell, law firms do not want you coming to work to flirt with secretaries, paralegals, or even other associates. Your sex appeal is irrelevant at best, and unwelcome at worst. You don't want to be a shapeless blog, but do not come in looking "hot."
> 
> FWIW, I'm a partner in a mid-sized firm, and started out in biglaw.


I agree with the above. I'm a partner in a large firm and we definitely look at personality and work ethic as our top two criterion (although not necessarily in that order). Things are more relaxed in terms of dress in California, even for lawyers but for your interview you want to look impeccable. All of the above advice is great. Just relax for the interviews!


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Learn to tie a four-in-hand. Other than a bow tie knot for tuxedo wear, it's the only necktie knot a man _needs_. You can play around with others, but the FIH is universal. I see at least eight of them for every other knot _combined_. As for how to learn to tie it _well: _practice, practice, practice. It won't take long. When I was in high school, I spent half of one summer in Washington DC working on Capitol Hill. I had to wear a tie everyday. By the end of my 6 week period, I could tie a FIH on the subway without benefit of a mirror. It ain't rocket science.

Some tips: Flip your collar up, put the tie around your neck, then flip the collar down before you begin work on the knot. Give yourself about 1-2" of working space below your collar to tie the knot. Any less, and the collar will be in the way; any more, and things get dicey in terms of getting the right length and not having the knot get pulled into a funny shape by running it up the narrow end. Go slow, making sure that each turn/pass of the tie is flat - once a crease/fold creeps in, the whole thing will just be a wadded-up lump. The dimple is simply a way of accomodating the fact that the blade of the tie is narrower than the opening of bottom of the knot. If the blade enters the knot flat, all you need to do to make it exit with a dimple is give it a gentle push with a fingertip as you tighten the knot. Give the bottom of the knot a side-to-side squeeze after you've tied and tightened it to give it a bit of shape.

I wish you luck in the interviews. Remember that the whole process is somewhat arbitrary. And remember that you don't know a [email protected] thing about what the practice of law is actually like, what will make you professionally happy, and what place is the right place for you. There's no way to know that stuff without spending at least a couple of years in practice. So if you don't get an offer from your first choice, don't sweat it. It wasn't the right place anyway.


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## bscarter (Jul 26, 2011)

Good luck with OCI. I'd recite some standard advice, but I'm guessing you don't need it. 

As for dressing for BigLaw, CuffD's advice should be followed and I'd just add one more point--dressing a function of the particular legal market. What's run-of-the-mill for a lawyer in Atlanta might look very out of place in the upper Midwest. For an interview, regardless of where you are, you'll want to dress conservatively and follow all the rules. Once you land somewhere and figure out the firm's culture, you might decide to adjust accordingly. On the other hand, you might want to set a sartorial example for the others--especially in Southern California. :wink2: 

Let us know how the suit from "the Wizard" worked out. I'm thinking of getting one.


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

Your suit from Jeff arrive yet? How's it fix? He's great with exchanges if you need it.

OT, have you read this piece? https://thepeoplestherapist.com/2011/04/13/not-worth-it/


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## cvac (Aug 6, 2006)

To the OP, good luck with OCI. Whatever you end up wearing it will probably be fine even if it's not perfect. The key is, you don't want to draw unnecessary attention to yourself. That means no pink shirts, bowties, or anything that looks like some kind of bad fashion statement. Honestly, when I went through OCI most of my classmates were wearing stuff that would make many AAAC members cringe: black suits, duckbill shoes, ugly striped shirts, etc.

As an aside, make sure you look for work outside of OCI. OCI is nothing to bank on anymore, not even if you are at a top school. It's really tough out there. I was a 2010 grad at a "T14" and about half of my classmates graduated unemployed and are still unemployed or underemployed now. Even recent grads from Harvard and Yale are still looking for work. It took me about a year to find my current job, which is completely outside the legal field. With all the stuff going on in the legal industry, I have no plans to practice law, ever.


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## clothingconnoisseur (Oct 9, 2005)

I remember these days when I graduated law school back in 1997. My recomendation is that your goal is to have your clothing be forgotten the moment you leave the interview. Nobody really cares what someone is wearing for an interview as a first year associate provided it is appropriate. I recommend a solid navy or grey suit, white shirt and a striped or conservative pattern tie. If Brooks Brother is too pricey try Jos. A. Bank. The quality is not as good but it is fine for your purposes. You can always upgrade when you start getting a salary although there is probably no rush since most lawyers were business casual unless meeting clients or making court appearances both of which are unlikely as a first year associate.

Good luck with the interviews! As an added tip, I read a book call "Guerilla Tacticts for Getting the Legal Job of your Dreams" back then and aced 75% of my job interviews. If you can find it on Amazon it would be well worth it. I still use the interviewing tips which are the best part of the book and can't remember the last interview I had that did not result in a job offer.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

If you live in the area, go sit outside of some of these firms around lunch time and watch what people wear. Look for people dressed on the conservative side. You will be interviewing so you will be dressed more formally and conservatively than many at the firm, but It will help give you an idea of what you are supposed to look like in the mirror. Good luck!


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## el caballero (Jan 23, 2011)

I would highly recommend you skip the red tie and pick another color that pops; a deep purple or an orange perhaps. I can assure you that nearly every 2L at your school will show up wearing a white shirt with a red tie, and you would end up looking like every other person they interviewed that day. As long as your tie is not offensively flamboyant you should be fine. It is a chance to stand out from the crowd, if even on a subconscious level.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

shepdawg said:


> I am applying to over 200 law firms for summer associate positions next summer. They firms are mostly in California. I was told that my black Calvin Klein suit would not be appropriate for interviews, and I need a new suit within 2 weeks.
> I learned that the rules for OCI suits are as follows:
> Charcoal or Navy
> Solid
> ...


None of them. Get a two-button navy suit. Pleats are fine -- it doesn't matter. Check out Jack Victor from Sierra Trading Post. Alternatively, look at Ralph Lauren at Sierra Trading Post. You may also want to try Lands' End. While low-end, their suits are reasonably priced and you can return them to any Sears store. You don't need a red tie; that is so 1990s "power suit" cliche. You have lots of options on that front. A nice regimental striped tie, a Churchill dot tie and a light blue or green tie (both have kind of replaced the red "power" look) are just a few that come to mind. (Just don't wear any of the ties in those pictures.)


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

arkirshner said:


> The most important thing in a suit is fit


Agreed. Whether it's a cheap suit or an expensive suit, make sure to spend a little money getting it properly tailored (sleeves shortened, pants hemmed, and the sides brought in are the most common alterations).


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

I recieved the suit from WAH in the mail this Wednesday, and took it to my tailor. He's the highest rated tailor on Yelp in San Diego, and he was really with it. He immediately noticed that something was "off" with my body. I told him that I had scoliosis, and he said he'd do all he could to account for that. He spent about 15 minutes fitting me and pinning things. The alterations being done are slimming the jacket at all 3 seams in the back, letting out my pants in the rear and front, and making the pants fit for each leg.

*Next steps*
Now that I have the suit taken care of, I still need some ties, and some shirts. I would like to just get a few white shirts. Any suggestions for good white shirts under $40?

Would any of these ties do the job well?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

First choice-Burgundy far left top row, second choice- red/burgundy next on right


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## cvac (Aug 6, 2006)

1) For shirts, Lands' End makes the best inexpensive shirts I've tried. Whatever you get, make sure it's plain white or light blue with a point collar. Don't get the tailored fit shirts unless you are a super skinny rail. The newer "traditional" fit is slim enough for most people. A slight spread collar is okay. I'd stay away from aggressive spread/cutaway type collars you see on British style shirts. Also, stay away from non-iron shirts if you can...they don't breathe well and will cause you to sweat more. Oh, and make sure the collar fits right. Nothing worse than wearing a dress shirt with an obvious gap in the front between your neck and the collar.

2) For ties, I would only wear if the one on the top row, far left. Most of the rest are just not appropriate. If you need some inexpensive ties, go to your local Marshalls/TJ Maxx/Filenes and buy a couple for $15 each. Usually they have Nautica and Hilfiger ties in conservative stripes and patterns...not the best ties in the world but serviceable for your needs.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I must respectfully disagree with cvac's position on spread collars. They are quite common in the profession. If you find point collars unflattering, or simply do not care for them, I think there is _zero_ reason to wear one.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

CuffDaddy said:


> I must respectfully disagree with cvac's position on spread collars. They are quite common in the profession. If you find point collars unflattering, or simply do not care for them, I think there is _zero_ reason to wear one.


CVAC did say a "slight spread collar is okay [but] stay away from _aggressive _spread/cutaway type collars..." emphasis added. While one can tease out the fine line between a "slight" spread and an "aggressive" spread, I believe his point is well taken. Disclosure, today I am wearing a spread collar which I can only hope is not too wimpy, and not too aggressive, but just right.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

His definition of an "aggressive spread" is what "you see on British style shirts." That's not a very aggresive spread. In fact, it's about the ONLY collar I wear with suits. And I've seen plenty of lawyers with full-on cutaways. Collar shape is a very subtle, but very important, detail. The wearer should select the shape that flatters their face best. Period.*

* I can make this statement categorical since there is nobody who is most flattered by the absurdities at either end of the spectrum. Anything flattering will be moderate.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

I disagree about the no iron shirt - I always wear no-iron shirts on interviews. You don't want to get all wrinkled up on the commute! I always did. But still get it pressed before the interviews, no starch needed. They breath just fine in my experience (better than a starched must iron, IMO). I agree about Land's End though - a white or light blue in pinpoint oxford will be just fine, although I like Brooks Brothers better. Slim or not slim shouldn't matter, since you will be wearing your jacket during the entire interview, unless for some reason you need to change a tire or deliver a baby. Whichever fits you better. I am not slim, but need slim fit because my neck is larger in proportion to the rest of me (so to get a shirt that fits my neck, the rest is a tent and I need slim fit).

Land's end has some decent not too expensive ties too, while you are at it. Or, there is the AAAC approved https://www.ties-necktie.com/ but use Andy's link.


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## sdneorn (Aug 8, 2011)

Hey Shepdawg, Do you mind sharing the name of tailor?


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

I picked my suit up from Stephan's today. Pictures of the fit below




























AE PE's. Taking the picture myself, so added wrinkles are from my lean.









Ties and shirts to come when my wife gets paid.


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

That set will do OK for you at OCI. 

But if you want to make that suit loom really good on you:

&bull; The jacket looks a little off. The button stand too high, the lapels too narrow and too short without roll. It looks boxy too. Maybe supressed the waist 0.5 inches more on each side. 

&bull; The trousers are too long. They pool about your ankles. Makes you look like you're 14 wearing father's suit. Take them back to your tailor. Tell him to shorten the length and give you just a slight break.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I'd put that at about the 75th percentile of noobie lawyer wear. Reducing the break just a touch (I like a full break, but that's a double breaker!) would help. Don't worry about whether it's "boxy," or the lapel width, or the button height - it's all within normal bounds on those counts.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

shepdawg said:


> I picked my suit up from Stephan's today. Pictures of the fit below
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not bad, but the pants are a bit too long. I would also have them tapered.


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## bscarter (Jul 26, 2011)

75% for young associates--OK--but well into the nineties for OCI candidates, at least in my part of the world. You can go into your interviews with confidence that what you're wearing is professional and looks good. Good luck!


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Francisco D'Anconia said:


> • The jacket looks a little off. The button stand too high, the lapels too narrow and too short without roll. It looks boxy too. Maybe supressed the waist 0.5 inches more on each side.


Agreed.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

*Not charcoal?*

As a fellow OCI-prepping law school student, I'd give it 2 thumbs up.

Any thoughts from the group on whether this suit is too light a grey for interviews?


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

teamtc: Too light, and too patterned. Mid-grey is fine, IMO, but that's well into light grey. It would be fine to wear once you've got the job in hand, but for an interview where you're trying to demonstrate your ability to conform to social and business standards, play by other people's rules, etc., it's dangerous.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

teamtc said:


> As a fellow OCI-prepping law school student, I'd give it 2 thumbs up.
> 
> Any thoughts from the group on whether this suit is too light a grey for interviews?


In my humble opinion, that suit should be marked down even further. The shoulders are too wide and pronounced. The jacket fits the model poorly and I'm afraid it will do the same to you, without a great deal of alterations. It doesn't help that the model is wearing it with a rather ugly shirt and tie combination.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

Much as I suspected (particularly in terms of color).

The search for an upgrade to my Macy's de rigueur goes on.

Edit: A big Michigan hello from Lansing to Detroit, hockeyinsider!


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

teamtc said:


> Much as I suspected (particularly in terms of color).
> 
> The search for an upgrade to my Macy's de rigueur goes on.
> 
> Edit: A big Michigan hello from Lansing to Detroit, hockeyinsider!


I would pick Jack Victor on most days over H.S.M.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

Decided to try this one, in charcoal - 

One left in my size, so I'm crossing my fingers just a wee bit on the fit.

Per your suggestion, I'm hoping to take a look at a Jack Victor this weekend.

What a fun time of year!


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

teamtc said:


> As a fellow OCI-prepping law school student, I'd give it 2 thumbs up.
> 
> Any thoughts from the group on whether this suit is too light a grey for interviews?


Generally speaking this grey is too light, however, if you have a "spring" complexion this is your best grey.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

teamtc said:


> Decided to try this one, in charcoal -
> 
> One left in my size, so I'm crossing my fingers just a wee bit on the fit.
> 
> ...


Check out Sierra Trading Post, for the best deals on Jack Victor.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

For what it's worth, I've noticed the Jack Victors at Lord & Taylor seem to be nearly as good a deal as STP, but with (arguably) a better selection --- L&T has the basics for $399.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

Heck, Code: STYLE puts the ensemble at $339.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Lord & Taylor may well be a better deal if the tailoring is included.


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

If tailoring is included, that's a great deal. It cost me $85 to get my suit tailored.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

shepdawg said:


> If tailoring is included, that's a great deal. It cost me $85 to get my suit tailored.


Most of my alterations cost between $40 and $80.


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## DaveTrader (Jun 11, 2011)

shepdawg said:


> I picked my suit up from Stephan's today. Pictures of the fit below


The suit looks nice, but you are posing for the photo and don't look comfortable. I am betting that if you unbutton the jacket and stand more naturally, you would look even better.

I deal with lawyers everyday and if you came into my office in that suit, I would hire you (if, of course, I was judging you only based on appearance!). The look is serious, respectful, and shows you care about detail.

I once had an attorney come in wearing a light brown tweed jacket, dark red point collar shirt, no tie, blue Levi dockers and... black Converse sneakers! Needless to say, I couldn't put him in front of clients, so he didn't get the gig.


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## USAF - 1 (Jun 12, 2011)

The suit looks good. I agree you need more waist supression and shorten the trousers with a bit of tapering. If you get that done, you'll look better than 90% of lawyers in California.


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

I listened to some in this thread and took it back to my tailor and had the pants shortened. I bought 5 conservative ties from thetiebar.com, and I think I'm as ready fashionwise as I can be.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

You look great - I would just suggest parting your hair and pushing it down so it isn't sticking up.

I find that very few lawyers spend much time on their appearance at big law firms. It wreaks havoc on your body, so even if something looked well tailored at one point, it often changes.

When I did OCIs, I think I wore a black suit, white shirt and a tie I took from my father that was probably 30 years old. It all turned out fine for me.

Sitting on the other side of the interview table, I look at (i) your resume (schools, grades, work experience), (ii) maturity/composure, (iii) ability to communicate, (iv) decency/honesty and (v) hunger/work ethic, not necessarily in that order. I think the best thing you can do is to stay calm and be honest, because the rest of you will come through naturally.


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## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

pleasehelp said:


> Sitting on the other side of the interview table, I look at (i) your resume (schools, grades, work experience), (ii) maturity/composure, (iii) ability to communicate, (iv) decency/honesty and (v) hunger/work ethic, not necessarily in that order. I think the best thing you can do is to stay calm and be honest, because the rest of you will come through naturally.


Pay attention, this is very good OCI advice right here!


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

pleasehelp said:


> You look great - I would just suggest parting your hair and pushing it down so it isn't sticking up.
> 
> I find that very few lawyers spend much time on their appearance at big law firms. It wreaks havoc on your body, so even if something looked well tailored at one point, it often changes.
> 
> ...


OP: pleasehelp and Scotch & Cigars are spot on.

And be ready with narrative from your experience to show the things mentioned above (e.g., composure, maturity, decency, honesty, work ethic).

Everyone will say they have a great work ethic. (I have yet to interview a candidate who extols their greatest strength as being an indolent, parasitic, ne'er-do-well).

What will really compliment the attire you've just composed is a story from your past that shows instead of says what you want your interviewer to see. Tale from a past job that shows how you worked hard and that made and made a difference toward someone else's success.

This has five virtues:

• It makes your affirmation of a good work ethic sincere.

• It makes you more interesting and memorable in a positive way.

• You appear well prepared.

• You are content to subordinate yourself to toil in obscurity and ensure that senior associates and partners can harvest and consume the fruit of your labor without fear that you might have the insolence to eclipse or usurp them.

• And it let's you obliquely suggest -- because it can't be overtly mentioned -- that you are resolved and suited to being the submissively obedient, fungible, and commoditized billable hour generating spreadsheet populator that so much of BigLaw management so earnestly, yet covertly, cherishes.

Other than all that, maybe press your collar so it's less wilted and use a smaller knot for your neck tie.


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

Thanks so much for taking the time to type out all the great advice.


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

Francisco D'Anconia said:


> OT, have you read this piece? https://thepeoplestherapist.com/2011/04/13/not-worth-it/


Thanks for the interesting read. The comments, especially the one by the associate who was hospitalized, were insightful.


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

OP, you're welcome. You know you're now obliged to come back to this thread and report on how it goes?


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

*First interview tomorrow...*

... is a white OCBD a definite no-go under a suit? (OCBDs are by far my go-to shirt, but I'm typically business casual at work.)


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

teamtc, there are a lot of lawyers who wear white OCBD's to the office and even to court. 90+% of them would not object to (nor, for most of them, even notice) a candidate showing up with such a shirt. But there are a small number of lawyers who still have the same views as the late Justicer Burger (who, I've read, use to expressly forbid lawyers from appearing before him in a BD shirt) and might not be favorably impressed. 

In short, the odds are good that it would not be a big deal, but there is a non-trivial chance it would be a negative mark in the mind of one or more interviewing attorneys. Since most law firms have candidates interview with between 6 and 20 lawyers, and a strongly negative review from any will usually scratch the applicant's chances, it's a lowest common denominator game, with the goal being to offend nobody. If you have the option, wear a spread or straight collar; if not, try not to worry about it, because the chances are good it won't matter.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

I dig. I might hit a few shops on the way home to see what I can scare up in my size (36 inch sleeves are sometimes tough to come by around here), but will otherwise be thankful that Justice Burger isn't on tomorrow's panel!


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## ItalianJOe (Aug 23, 2011)

10+ years at big firms' corporate finance, plus 5+ years of successful solo practice here. I conducted *tons* of OCI interviews and call-back interviews at the office. The clothes won't matter unless they are truly inappropriate. Yours are just fine. If you are so worried about your interview suit, I worry that you will come off way to stiff and self-promoting at the interviews.

The biggest thing I liked to see was someone I would feel comfortable with at 2 a.m. at the printers. RELAX and show them that you will be a good colleague. Your pedigree is what it is, and it shows from your resume / grades. If you got the interview, you passed that obstacle. Now, you need to show that you are someone they *want* to work with.

Good luck.


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## PatentLawyerNYC (Sep 21, 2007)

ItalianJOe said:


> 10+ years at big firms' corporate finance, plus 5+ years of successful solo practice here. I conducted *tons* of OCI interviews and call-back interviews at the office. The clothes won't matter unless they are truly inappropriate. Yours are just fine. If you are so worried about your interview suit, I worry that you will come off way to stiff and self-promoting at the interviews.
> 
> The biggest thing I liked to see was someone I would feel comfortable with at 2 a.m. at the printers. RELAX and show them that you will be a good colleague. Your pedigree is what it is, and it shows from your resume / grades. If you got the interview, you passed that obstacle. Now, you need to show that you are someone they *want* to work with.
> 
> Good luck.


I entirely agree with the second paragraph. But I also agree with CuffDaddy that it makes sense to try to be non-controversial in your interview attire. And don't look at your watch during the interview. I will ding you for that.


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## Mr. Knightly (Sep 1, 2005)

FWIW, on one of the five days of OCI, I wore a light grey suit, and one of my interviewers commented on how it was refreshing to see something a little different. I've just finished my summer at that firm and will be returning after my clerkship.

As far as general OCI tips go, I always had good responses asking some variation of this question: "Who WOULDN'T be a good fit at your firm, other than people who just wouldn't be a good fit any big firm?" Eight out of ten times, my interviewer said they'd never been asked that, they stopped to think for a bit, and gave me a thoughtful answer, which led into a more open, natural discussion.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

*Two down, here...*

One didn't go too bad, and the other went very well. (I showed up to both looking good and feeling good, but brought some nerves with me to the first one.) *shrug*


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

teamtc said:


> One didn't go too bad, and the other went very well. (I showed up to both looking good and feeling good, but brought some nerves with me to the first one.) *shrug*


That's awesome teamtc. All you need is one!


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

Thank you, sir! Three down, now --- and after dusting the nerves off, it's been a lot of fun. I wish you all the luck!


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

I am very excited, because I got a 2nd interview! Mid-sized firm with regional prowess. The interview is with the same person I interviewed with the first time. His secretary said it should only be 30-40 minutes.

*Question.* Can I get by wearing the same charcoal suit, a different white shirt, and a different tie? The white shirt would be a custom white shirt from moderntailor.com, which is 5x better than the one I wore to the first interview.


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## xwhasianx (Aug 30, 2011)

Shep,

Grats on the second interview. You can probably get away with using the same suit, just change up the shirt/tie. Been following you for a while and I was wondering how your WOA suit was holding up. I'm also from San Diego and considering the price point, I'm thinking about contacting Jeff. I read somewhere that the 150s wool wrinkled on you during your first interview? Can you give a little review on your suit?

Thanks


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

shepdawg said:


> I am very excited, because I got a 2nd interview! Mid-sized firm with regional prowess. The interview is with the same person I interviewed with the first time. His secretary said it should only be 30-40 minutes.
> 
> *Question.* Can I get by wearing the same charcoal suit, a different white shirt, and a different tie? The white shirt would be a custom white shirt from moderntailor.com, which is 5x better than the one I wore to the first interview.


Congrats, sir! That'll be a great experience!

I actually just got a callback yesterday, as well (also a regional firm --- it's nice to know we're not fishing the same pool!)

I'll be sporting my go-to charcoal (same suit as the first round), with a new shirt/tie combo. I suspect this is not the least bit noticeable, and that even if it were, it's as-expected of an (aspring) young professional.

Here's to continued success!


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## Georgetown08 (Oct 5, 2011)

I also have an upcoming call back interview with a large law firm (Washington, DC). I'm going to be wearing a navy two button suit with a white shirt. I'm trying to decide on a tie. I took a picture of a handful of my ties that I think could be appropriate. I think the one on the far left might be the best in terms of trying to go conservative, but I'm a bit worried that the navy suit + red tie look might be a bit too "power," as some posters have suggested above.



(I also threw in at least one that I probably wouldn't wear to an interview, but wanted to get a sense of what people think)


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

All four of your burgundy ties are fine. Even better would be the one with the the white dots but without the blue.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

G-town08, I think any of those would be fine. The multi-paisley one might be slightly busy, but not a big deal. Pick the one that looks best on you, and that you will wear with the most confidence. Good luck! Also, Hoya Saxa!


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

I like the fourth tie (left to right). I have one like it (candy apple houndstooth), and it looks good with a navy suit. The first tie has potential, but looks cheap in the picture and the skinny blue line seems a little off to me.

Update of my own: 10 interviews done, and waiting for calls. It's so hard to wait. :crazy:


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## Georgetown08 (Oct 5, 2011)

Thanks. I'll go with one of the red ones.


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## Bluegrass Man (Jun 26, 2011)

The Paisleygasm on the right is a little much, visually. The far left tie, are the stripes that out of line with the fold at the bottom of the tie as it looks in the pic? If so, I'd skip that one. I'm not really loving the 2 light blue ones for some reason, probably something subliminal involving personal taste. So that leaves the 2 reds next to and to the left of the yellow. I like the yellow tie. The other two I'm neutral to like on.


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