# Wine or Beer



## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

I like beer but only drink it when wine isn't available. Mainly Sam Adams or Red Stripe. This might make me sound poor, cheap or like an alcoholic. But I like to get as much alcohol for my buck. I have had some strong Canadian beers but even they don't deliver the same buzz as wine. Plus wine has a much more agreeable taste.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I love beer...well good beer...I mainly enjoy ales, but a good lager is always nice aswell...but as much as I enjoy beer...I'd rather have a nice champagne any day of the week...


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## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> I like beer but only drink it when wine isn't available. Mainly Sam Adams or Red Stripe. This might make me sound poor, cheap or like an alcoholic. But I like to get as much alcohol for my buck. I have had some strong Canadian beers but even they don't deliver the same buzz as wine. Plus wine has a much more agreeable taste.


If potency is your benchmark, you can do no better than to acquaint yourself with Duvel Belgian Ale. Duvel is one of finest beers in the world, with a delicate, complex flavor that is the product of a champagne-like _dosage_ of yeast and sugar in the bottling process. The flavor and pale-gold color can be deceptive, however, as Duvel tops out at 8.5% alcohol by volume; thus, a single 750 ml bottle will scramble your synapses in a most satisfactory manner, if that's what you're after. This sensitive brew hasn't a very long shelf life, and will decline quickly if improperly stored, so find a reliable merchant.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

I like wine, but I am a beer drinker. Hefs, stouts, lambics, bocks, pilseners etc. I love them all. Some of my favorites: Guinness, Samuel Smith's Imperial, Anchor Steam, Duvel, Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse, Ayinger Celebrator, Pliny the Younger, Sierra Nevada Harvest Ale and Sam Adams Boston Lager.


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## nikwik (Oct 29, 2005)

Lushington said:


> If potency is your benchmark, you can do no better than to acquaint yourself with Duvel Belgian Ale. Duvel is one of finest beers in the world, with a delicate, complex flavor that is the product of a champagne-like _dosage_ of yeast and sugar in the bottling process. The flavor and pale-gold color can be deceptive, however, as Duvel tops out at 8.5% alcohol by volume; thus, a single 750 ml bottle will scramble your synapses in a most satisfactory manner, if that's what you're after. This sensitive brew hasn't a very long shelf life, and will decline quickly if improperly stored, so find a reliable merchant.


When speaking of strong Belgian beers you shouldn´t forget *Bush*...

https://www.br-dubuisson.com/An/produit_dub.htm


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## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

nikwik said:


> When speaking of strong Belgian beers you shouldn´t forget *Bush*...
> 
> https://www.br-dubuisson.com/An/produit_dub.htm


Yes, and Piraat has many Duvel-like virtues as well. Closer to home, both Sierra Nevada and Anchor produce tasty and potent barley wines, "Bigfoot" and "Old Foghorn," respectively, but those are truly an acquired taste. On the other hand, if simple alcoholc bang for the buck is wanted, any of the "Big Five" pictured here should do the trick:

https://www.bumwine.com/

I can only speak to the power of Mad Dog, and that from distant memory, but "drunk" doesn't even begin describe the effect. Ouch!


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## Isaac Mickle (Nov 28, 2006)

What, no chance to vote "both" ?


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Lushington said:


> Yes, and Piraat has many Duvel-like virtues as well. Closer to home, both Sierra Nevada and Anchor produce tasty and potent barley wines, "Bigfoot" and "Old Foghorn," respectively, but those are truly an acquired taste. On the other hand, if simple alcoholc bang for the buck is wanted, any of the "Big Five" pictured here should do the trick:
> 
> https://www.bumwine.com/
> 
> I can only speak to the power of Mad Dog, and that from distant memory, but "drunk" doesn't even begin describe the effect. Ouch!


Blinding drunk would be a better description. Just seeing those pictures brought back bad memories of awful hangovers. Cisco and Mad Dog are some nasty stuff. Antifreeze and gasoline would be a step up from these in taste.


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## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> Blinding drunk would be a better description. Just seeing those pictures brought back bad memories of awful hangovers. Cisco and Mad Dog are some nasty stuff. Antifreeze and gasoline would be a step up from these in taste.


So I recall. Still, it's hard to argue with their "cost/buzz" ratio. Returning to the civilized world, one should not overlook _doppelbocks_ when searching for a strong beer to tipple in polite company. You mentioned Celebrator, which _is_ superb, but I prefer Spaten's legendary Optimator, and Paulaner's Salvator should also be considered. Some may find these unpalatably sweet, but I certainly don't.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

At the pinnacle of "cost/buzz" ratio must be the Russian beer which has marijuana seeds soaking in it. The tabletop placards in some bars in St. Petersburg advertise "Why get drunk when you can get drunk and high?"


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Lushington said:


> So I recall. Still, it's hard to argue with their "cost/buzz" ratio. Returning to the civilized world, one should not overlook _doppelbocks_ when searching for a strong beer to tipple in polite company. You mentioned Celebrator, which _is_ superb, but I prefer Spaten's legendary Optimator, and Paulaner's Salvator should also be considered. Some may find these unpalatably sweet, but I certainly don't.


I certainly like to drink Optimator, but I haven't tried Salvator. One can find quite a few good German beers at our Oktoberfest and Strassenfest celebrations. You mentioned Duvel, any other favorite Belgian beers?


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## Armchair (Nov 12, 2006)

Beer for me. Give me a pint of Gales HSB and I'll be a happy man.


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## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> I certainly like to drink Optimator, but I haven't tried Salvator. One can find quite a few good German beers at our Oktoberfest and Strassenfest celebrations. You mentioned Duvel, any other favorite Belgian beers?


The usual: Chimay, Orval, Rodenbach, Hoegaarden (Wit and Grand Cru), Grimbergen Triple, Piraat. Not a big fan of lambics, although if you're buying. . . Salvator is said to the original _doppelbock_, but I find it inferior to both Optimator and Celebrator. Still good stuff, of course. I'm getting thirsty just writing this. I'd better go see what's in the fridge . . .


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I cannot put it to an either/or vote. I like both of them but differently.

Beer would be my choice for an evening of drinking with friends in a pub (between the two choices) whereas wine would be my drink of choice at a nice dinner or sitting outside with my wife and/or friends for some social chatting.

Wine is a different level of appreciation. While there are various levels of beer, from $4.00 pitchers of Busch to Thomas Hardy ales, wine is just a more complex, cerebral experience at times. To open a bottle for 40 y/o port and taste the changes that occur from sip to sip is incredible. Or to taste how a complex Australian muscat starts off peppery and smokey to end up floral and honey-like by the end of the 1/2 spliff is a wonder. Then again, a nicely chilled, cheap bottle of chennin blanc is a tastey quaff on a warm desert night.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

if you want a "beer" that'll get you f'd up...I once drank some Sam Adams Utiopia (sp?) at a friends house...it's the weirdest stuff, because, it tastes like beer...but you can also taste the alcohol...imagine beer flavored spirits...you drink it out of small-ish glasses (think of a bourbon glass)...and after about 5 or 6...you're ready to sing...I've wanted to get some for myself, but apparently this stuff is very limited release and kind of hard to get...but if you are lucky enough to come across some...by all means...have at...you wont be disappointed...


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## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> if you want a "beer" that'll get you f'd up...I once drank some Sam Adams Utiopia (sp?) at a friends house...it's the weirdest stuff, because, it tastes like beer...but you can also taste the alcohol...imagine beer flavored spirits...you drink it out of small-ish glasses (think of a bourbon glass)...and after about 5 or 6...you're ready to sing...I've wanted to get some for myself, but apparently this stuff is very limited release and kind of hard to get...but if you are lucky enough to come across some...by all means...have at...you wont be disappointed...


I believe Utopias MMII was Sam Adams' shot at brewing the strongest beer ever, and it topped out at 24% by volume, or 48 proof. For a spell, several microbreweries engaged in an contest of sorts to brew the strongest beer on record. Traditionally, the strongest beers widely available have been European _eisbocks_, which are _doppelbocks_ that are frozen and have some of the water removed before bottling to increase the alcohol content. Samichlaus, a Swiss _eisbock_ (I almost typed "Swill") was long recognized as the strongest beer commerically available, with an alcohol content of about 13%. It went out of production for a time, and Sam Adams introduced a "triplebock" which was around 14%, and the game was on. Most of these high-alcohol beers were one-off novelties, and I don't know if any are in regular production. Utopias was said to taste pretty good, and it retailed for around $100 per bottle


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Dogfish Head has a 120 minute IPA that is 20% abv. 
Sweet and malty, and not as bitter as the hoppy aroma suggests. 
Sip this one if you can find it. It is very strong.


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## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> Dogfish Head has a 120 minute IPA that is 20% abv.
> Sweet and malty, and not as bitter as the hoppy aroma suggests.
> Sip this one if you can find it. It is very strong.


120 ibus! Holy smoke. I love IPAs (Anchor Liberty Ale is perhaps my favorite beer), but 120 ibus is pushing the envelope in every direction. Yet you say that 120 IPA isn't that hoppy. Hmmmm. The high alcohol content must negate much of the hop bitterness. I'll have to round up a few bottles of this. Thanks for the tip.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Lushington said:


> 120 ibus! Holy smoke. I love IPAs (Anchor Liberty Ale is perhaps my favorite beer), but 120 ibus is pushing the envelope in every direction. Yet you say that 120 IPA isn't that hoppy. Hmmmm. The high alcohol content must negate much of the hop bitterness. I'll have to round up a few bottles of this. Thanks for the tip.


I've been told that it gets even better with age, but I have never been one to age my beers. Dogfish Head does alot of experimental type beers, but many are very good, especially their IPAs.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Lushington said:


> I believe Utopias MMII was Sam Adams' shot at brewing the strongest beer ever, and it topped out at 24% by volume, or 48 proof. For a spell, several microbreweries engaged in an contest of sorts to brew the strongest beer on record. Traditionally, the strongest beers widely available have been European _eisbocks_, which are _doppelbocks_ that are frozen and have some of the water removed before bottling to increase the alcohol content. Samichlaus, a Swiss _eisbock_ (I almost typed "Swill") was long recognized as the strongest beer commerically available, with an alcohol content of about 13%. It went out of production for a time, and Sam Adams introduced a "triplebock" which was around 14%, and the game was on. Most of these high-alcohol beers were one-off novelties, and I don't know if any are in regular production. Utopias was said to taste pretty good, and it retailed for around $100 per bottle


I gotta admit, I don't really know the story behind this stuff, and I only got try it the one time...but, from what I understand, it's a once-a-year release...my friend who served it explained it to me that way. Plus, this was only like a year ago...I'll have to try and do a little home-work...


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

According to the sam adams website, it was brewed twice, once in 01 with a 24.whatever alcohol content...then again in 03 with a 25. whatever alcohol content, there was no indication of wheather or not they'd be brewing it again...I sent the company an email, hopefully they'll let us know...


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## anglophile (Jul 7, 2006)

Potency aside, I am spilt between beer and wine. I am, without a doubt, a big beer drinker. I love my ales, stouts, and bitters (Espescially cask conditioned), but when it comes to food pairings, any meal that requires a tie, calls for wine. I eat my share of wings, chips, and sandwiches washed down with a pint or 6, but if the table has a table cloth, give me a nice glass of a South American red.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

For me, beer is a drink for casual occasions with friends or during the summer. Wine is for dining or those contemplative moments when a brewsky will not do.


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> ...any other favorite Belgian beers?


Anything from St. Bernardus, Watou, is well-worth your time, money, and brain cells. Their tripel is the best tripel I have ever had (Chimay's Cinq Cents is, of course, also excellent). Just last night I had a 750ml bottle of their "Abt 12 Special Edition" which weighs in at 11%. It is definitely a force to be reckoned with. 
"Salvator" and "Optimator" are also excellent German offerings, it's just a shame we do not get the same "Salvator" and "Optimator" in the US that is sold in Germany. I think their offerings distributed in Germany are inarguably superior. 
Also, Bell's brewery out of Kalamazoo, MI, is my vote for the best brewery in the US. They have a wide number of varietals, some seasonal, some offered year round. Last summer they offered a band of wheat ales 2-8 (named for different ingredient compositions) that were excellent. Until this year, every October they offered their amazing rendition of a Belgian ale called "Sparkling Ale," unfortunately, I could not find it in Fall 2006. And, if you are into barley wines like Sierra Nevada's "Bigfoot Ale," I imagine you would be more than pleasantly surprised with Bell's "Third Coast Old Ale." For bock fans, they make the sublime "Consecrator Doppelbock." For stout fans, they make more than a few, including: "Kalamazoo Stout;" "Cherry Stout;" "Expedition Stout" (which looks like abused motor oil); and "Double Cream Stout."
All that being said in praise of beer, I have a couple glasses of wine a night for my heart. Wink.


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2005)

i love my wine, but selected beer since I drink it way more often - to which my gut can often attest.


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## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

Laxplayer said:


> I certainly like to drink Optimator, but I haven't tried Salvator.


Paulaner Salvator of course originated the doppelbock so it demands a tasting for anyone interested in the style. Sadly, I can no longer locate it in the classic half litre bottle size. The Salvator has a particular warmth and crispness to it not found in the many imitators. The Optimator in comparison is darker, sweeter and the alcohol flavor is more upfront. Last month one of the local bierstubes had the Optimator on tap and found a few of them a perfect match for the frigid weather.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

This is probably a pretty pedestrian suggestion I know...but...I just recently have gotten into the Sam Adams White Ale...dont know much about it...but I must say, it's good...


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## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

cgc said:


> The Optimator in comparison is darker, sweeter and the alcohol flavor is more upfront. Last month one of the local bierstubes had the Optimator on tap and found a few of them a perfect match for the frigid weather.


You're darn tootin'!


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

Hey neighbor
Grab a 'Gansett
Give that lager beer a chance

I drink hard alcohol/cocktails much more frequently than wine or beer, but when it comes down to choosing between the two I go with beer.

Red wine almost invariably gives me a splitting headache, no matter how few glasses I drink. The only white wine I really enjoy is sauvignon blanc (sp.?) although I have found others palatable.

Hence my inclination is towards New England's Favorite Beer, Narragansett.

Not a beer for beer snobs, I'm sure but a favorite of mine.


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## eg1 (Jan 17, 2007)

Used to drink lots of beer, now only rarely -- say after participating in sports. Prefer wine and whiskey now. Less volume and carbs.


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## Graphix (Mar 1, 2007)

i really enjoy wine, but my inability to afford or drink multiple full bottles of good wine keeps me drinking beer most of the time. one day...

for beer i like... duvel, delierium tremens/nocturnum, long trail, chimay, any good ipa, hefe's, most of the brews from Rogue, arrogant bastard ale, most of the unibroue beers... just about anything that had some good ole TLC go into making it.

peace,
B


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## brandonmichelt (Apr 28, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> You mentioned Duvel, any other favorite Belgian beers?


Duvel is definitely an old favorite, but Westmalle Tripel beats it out for me.

Seeing as you're an STL native as well, Chocolate Bar in Lafayette Square serves it at just the right temperature, something that i think has to be considered with this caliber beer. Nice brewsky drinking atmosphere as well.

Anyone else tried Westmalle? Haven't seen it mentioned yet.


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

In this beautiful weather I drink Stella Artois. It just tastes like summer/spring. Does anyone have a beer that recalls a certain season?


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## Clovis (Jan 11, 2005)

*Both*



Isaac Mickle said:


> What, no chance to vote "both" ?


Yes I agree, both wine and beer have their place and I try to choose according to the occasion.


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## Shadowman88 (May 27, 2007)

*Beer, without a doubt....*

After being stationed in Germany for 2 years in the heart of the Rhineland Pfalz wine country (Oppenheim and Nierstein) I like them both, and have had some amazing wines (Eiswein in amazing stuff) my heart goes with beer. My fave, Paulaner Hefe Weizen. By far the best Hef I have ever tried, and it never dissapoints. I will comment on the Eisbock thing. On one of my three trips to Cologne (Koln) I went to the little "beer museum" in the heart of downtown and found a 24% Eisbock. Dark as molasses, oily, thick as any beer I have had and absolutely wonderful. Definitely a "man's brew" if you know what I mean. I was pacing myself and took damn near an hour to drink a liter of the stuff and STILL was buzzin'....If I could find some of that in Lawton I'd buy some and have my comrades try some. Of course, I'd prolly have to drive them home. 
I read earlier that they can't find Paulaner in the 1/2 liter bottles in the Salavator. I have the same problem, but there's a place that sells the 1/2 liter bottles as singles here in Lawton. Oh yeah, I like the Belgian Ales as well, Grimbergen, Leffe, etc....lots of beer drinking stories in Germany, almost too many.....


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## victorology (Dec 7, 2006)

Depends on the setting and what I'm eating. I drink beer way more often, though.


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## SoutherWinds (May 24, 2007)

Beer man here! Wine only for special occasions (not too often).


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## cuffthis (Jul 13, 2004)

I think my vote may be obvious. I didn't resign my career as a CPA to open a beer joint,lol.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I could not vote. I seldom drink alcohol, but either beer or wine is a treat when I do have it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The visceral appeal of an ice cold beer, after an afternoon of hard labor under a steaming sun, is undeniable! Make mine a Sam Adams.


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