# What caused the disappearance of men's hats



## drrobert (Sep 24, 2006)

If you look back at men of great sartorial splendor in the 19th century and up to maybe the early forties and fifties of the 20th century, you would invariably find that they would wear a hat as an integral part of their clothing ensemble. All of us on AAAC still appreciate a great looking suit, a world class shirt, gorgeous trousers, a well-crafted silk tie, and extraordinary shoes, so why did the hat disappear as part of the total look for a well-dressed gentleman? I would also like to know why spats are rarely if ever seen and why men do not carry walking sticks as well-dressed gentleman once did.(There is even a line about walking sticks and men in the song "Putting on the Ritz" memorably sung by Gene Wilder in "Young Frankenstein") Furthermore, we all have seen some of the most beautiful overcoats imagineable from Savile Row tailors and Chris Despos, yet I never see one that mimics Sherlock Holmes' caped overcoat which would be striking if done with a modern flair as Thomas Mahon just did with his most-recent Victorian era gray replica overcoat. Can anyone tell me why most of these once venerable aspects of men's fashion are no longer on the scene anymore?drrobert


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## Drag0n (Aug 24, 2006)

Excellent post/question. My wife and I were talking about the same thing recently, and wondered why hats have disappeared.

These days, one problem I see is that there isn`t anywhere to put the hat when you take it off (indoors). In the old days, somone would say, "May I take your hat" but these days your`re out of luck.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

There's been lots of talk about JFK helping to kill the hat in America. Check out this Amazon link:

https://www.amazon.com/Hatless-Jack-President-History-American/dp/0452285232


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

*Youth Culture*

The disappearance of hats can be traced to the contemporaneous rise of youth culture in the 1950's. Young men have much less need for hats than older men for obvious reasons. Kennedy wanted to show his hair. Ike did not. Now all fashion is driven by young people. No hats.


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## qasimkhan (Sep 24, 2003)

Also, people walk less than they used to, so they have less need of hats.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Spats were supposedly killed off by King George V in the 1920s. As cities became less, well, filthy, the need for spats became less, and the king's decision to abandon them ultimately did them in.


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## Isaac Mickle (Nov 28, 2006)

Hello all. I am a new poster here. Forgive me if I look confused.

Men still wear hats. As i stood in a supermarket line today, I noticed many older men wearing small, dirty-looking tan or gray baseball caps. Many were turned out in what might otherwise pass for business-casual attire. It was khaki hats and khaki pants. Such use of the baseball hat may be another example of the reign of youth in clothing style today.

I wonder too if the older man's respect for the looks of the young, today, is a temporary thing. Is this mainly the choice of one or two generations? Or is this a permanent change?

When i am 65, thirty years from now, will i stand in line with grown men in skateboarding helmets?


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## 18677 (Jan 4, 2006)

*.*

Technically speaking a baseball cap is a cap....not a hat. A cap has a partial brim. I know this is splitting hairs for some, but we should get this subject off on the right foot.

_Hatless Jack_ is a great book...not only about hat, but about men's clothing in general.

The hat has been on the decline since early 1900......but it is making a slight comeback.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I wear what is called a "regular hat" often, fedora is a closer name for those not familar. I have for many many years, but not all the time, when the weather is bad, cold, wet, windy, etc. I also wear caps, but not baseball caps, at least not often. I like an ivy cap, a newsboy cap, a drivers cap. I was told many years ago I look good in hats, is it because I wear them, I don't know. Hats are great but I do not like the attention to myself that a hat generates, but I like hats so I wear them.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

In bygone days hats were much more than head protectors or decoration - they were also signs of social status and group affiliation (in the UK, bowler hat, top hat and flat cap were emblems - in France the beret, I don't know about the US). There were rules for taking them off - for example to show respect (i.e. to hold back your status).

Hats had different meanings for men and women of course (women didn't have to doff theirs and kept them on in church and at table, for example).

Hats were part of what is now a dead language. Why this language died out (in the Western World, that is - not elsewhere I suspect) is an interesting question. There must be a good book somewhere on the ethnosociological history of hat wearing. If not then there's an interesting opportunity for a forumite!


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

guitone said:


> Hats are great but I do not like the attention to myself that a hat generates, but I like hats so I wear them.


Exactly my position. People notice a hat and are more likely to comment on it than on any other item of clothing. Wearing a hat has become provocative.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

MK said:


> The hat has been on the decline since early 1900...


_Thank you_. Yes, changing times and technologies killed the hat. People spent more time under cover (indoors, in cars) and not in the open. Also, as has been observed, car roofs were getting lower, maing hats less practical and comfortable to wear out.

JFK himself had next to nothing to do with it.


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

New metaphorical threat for you to use:

"I am going to do to you what Kennedy did to the Homburg."


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Perhaps the most interesting discussion of all this is -- as Mike147 suggests above -- Hatless Jack by Neil Steinberg...a charming history of hats and their demise. Here's a link to NPR's story about it including an interview with its author: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4286210


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

medwards beaten to a link! By 7 hours and 57 minutes! Isn't this one of the signs of the apocalypse?!


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*Some Past Discussions*

And here are two AAAC discussions on this very topic:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=45512

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=50064


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Henry said:


> medwards beaten to a link! By 7 hours and 57 minutes! Isn't this one of the signs of the apocalypse?!


Cybergremlins!!!!!!!!!!! 

In recognition of Mike147's earlier posting, I've now edited my message


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Very restrained of you not to obliterate his message instead!


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

*Homburg*

So it's OK if I go and get a Homburg and wear it?


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

I'm sure you would look quite dashing!


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

I've noticed that it seems to be movies and fashion advertisements that led the way to the downfall of the hat. Of course Kennedy was a bellweather of their downfall. The actors and models wanted to show more face and hair so hats were set aside to augment the prettyboy images. In recent times hats are the signature of movie gangsters and private eyes. Change the image and you will change the imprint of what is normal. Then we can all go back to warmer heads in the winter and less sunburn in the summer.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

What kind of hats are you referring to?


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## drrobert (Sep 24, 2006)

*Clarification of JFK and top hat*

JFK did wear a top hat to his inaguration on January 20,1961 just as Eisenhower did who accompanied him that day. He did take this formal hat off for the delivery of his Inagurual Address ;however many photographs clearly show him with his top hat on at various activites running throughout the course of the day. As far as I know he never wore a hat again in public for any occasion. Whether this was a factor in the decline of men wearing hats as part of their complete clothing ensemble I will let others who are more expert debate this point. Obviously, his wife Jackie was a tremendous trend setter in women's fashion and certainly it could be argued a young, handsome, energetic president would clearly be capable of having any of his fashion statements emulated by the public at large. The Duke of Windsor (the king who abdicated his throne to marry American, Wallace Warfield Simpson) is clearly one of the most famous examples of this in the 20th century. drrobert


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

drrobert said:


> There is even a line about walking sticks and men in the song "Putting on the Ritz" memorably sung by Gene Wilder in "Young Frankenstein")


https://imageshack.us

Wilder et al _*completely*_ botch it up in their version by having them wear white tie rather than 'cutaway coats' with formal striped trousers (ie morning dress) as the words in the Berlin song say:

_Different types who wear a day coat 
pants with stripes and *cutaway coat* 
perfect fits_



drrobert said:


> Furthermore, we all have seen some of the most beautiful overcoats imagineable from Savile Row tailors and Chris Despos, yet I never see one that mimics Sherlock Holmes' caped overcoat...


I think you are trying to say Inverness overcoat:



drrobert said:


> Can anyone tell me why most of these once venerable aspects of men's fashion are no longer on the scene anymore?drrobert


I guess we all have our old favourites which we lament the passing of. I for one regret the passing of the frock coat.

More seriously could hats have merely gone out of fashion for the same reason the following piece of headwear did (alack! what caused its disappearance)?:

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


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## drrobert (Sep 24, 2006)

*Reply to Sator*

Thanks for your input on my thread and as a classical piano student in my spare time I love your picture of probably the greatest baroque composer of all time, Johann Sebastian Bach. drrobert


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

*Historically Informed (Dress) Practice or HIP*



drrobert said:


> I love your picture of probably the greatest baroque composer of all time, Johann Sebastian Bach. drrobert


Amen to that!

I do think there is a place for a sort of historic dress movement akin to the period instrument movement. Just as in the past (such as in Bach's or Mozart's day) they only played the music of their time, we have only worn the dress of our time. However, *anyone* who posts a photo admiring the way a Gary Cooper or a Duke of Windsor dressed is really taking place in a historic dress movement.

While I think it would be silly to dress like Johann Sebastian I agree with you that if you research the subject with enough care you find forgotten jems like Inverness overcoats that could be potentially revived. In fact I encouraged a poster to bespeak one (in lieu of the fact that capes look to costumey) recently and he went out to get quotes from tailors to have one cut in herringbone with a green facing to the cape.

I myself took an 1886 published pattern for a 10 button DB waistcoat to my tailor to be cut and I get more compliments on that than just about anything else I own. It felt like Mendellsohn dusting off old scores in the archives (hmmm...who's this Bach fellow...?).


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## alaric (May 23, 2005)

drrobert,



> greatest baroque composer of all time


I fear you damn him with faint praise! I would have dropped the modifier and left it simply as:



> greatest composer of all time


I just finished listening to the coffee contata. Not only a great compsoer, but one with a truly (sorry) baroque sense of humor.

alaric


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

alaric said:


> I fear you damn him with faint praise! I would have dropped the modifier and left it simply as:
> 
> the greatest composer of all time


"Handel is the greatest composer that ever lived." "... to him I bow the knee" L v Beethoven.

Do I agree with LvB? Not really and I have felt similarly about Bach in the past but these days I just don't know if you can make such sweeping simplifications. Why not Josquin, Ockeghem or Obrecht - easily the artistic equals of their rough comtempories such as, da Vinci, Michelangelo, Raphael etc?

The more forgotten composers I rediscover the less black and white things are. The same with dress - the more I learn about the history of what we wear today the more I see everything in a completely different light.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

Sator said:


> "Handel is the greatest composer that ever lived." "... to him I bow the knee" L v Beethoven.


Handel was the Eddie Lopat of his day.

That will mean nothing to non-Americans on the board, but in his day, Lopat was one of the "big three" starting pitchers for the Yankees. One of his opponents (I forget who) was reluctant to believe a teammate who called Lopat the best pitcher in the league, as he had singularly unimpressive "stuff"-- weaki arm, no killer pitch of any sort. To which the reply: "is there anyone who can do more with less?" The respect for craft that Beethoven would have appreciated.

That being said, the more I know about harmony and counterpoint (and I know a lot less than I once did), the more Bach utterly amazes me.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I guess "evolution" caused the disappearance of men's hats.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

Not intelligent design?


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

When one looks back on the actual changes in the hat industry, one finds a rather large number of converging factors that indeed _evolved_ over time, including the growth of central heating and climate controlled buildings, the effect of the automobile (both in terms of the way it protected gentlemen from the elements and its limitations for hat wearers), the greater postwar trend toward less formality in dress, the sense of rebellion against structure and class beginning in the 1950s, first shorter mens hairstyles in the 1950s and then longer cuts in the 1960s, Hollywood's dislike for hats on men (except villains) because they hid facial features and made actors more difficult to light, etc.... And so it goes....


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

*Some history from the Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes:*

Until the 20th century hats were part of a gentleman's attire. If you didn't have a hat you were not well, nor completely dressed. The decline in hats is often blamed on *President John Fitzgerald Kennedy* (1917 - 1963), 35th President of the United States (1961 - 1963) who it is said was the first President not to wear a hat to his inauguration in 1961.

*But, he did wear a hat! *It was a silk top hat that went with the morning suit that he wore! He may have had it off his head most of the day, but he did wear a hat!

JFK did help the decline by not wearing a hat after his inauguration! He may have just been a reflection of the general trend of the time. The 1960s saw a considerable decrease in the wearing and manufacture of hats
Kennedy may have been just reflecting the times of long hairstyles, more casual and rebellious attitudes, low head clearance in cars, plus tighter fitting European suits, all of which expelled the hat as fashion accessory.


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## Isaac Mickle (Nov 28, 2006)

Were caps popular or common one hundred years ago? Is the rise of the cap a factor in the decline of the hat?

Was there much of a market for secondhand hats one hundred years ago? I would guess that fancy dress hats only make a lot of sense in a context of many hats, i.e., on a street or in a city where the majority of men are wearing more mundane or worn hats.

Would a fancy dress hat provide much protection from the elements? Could such a hat endure much exposure to the elements and still look good? 

Finally, topcoats with capes - such as the one featured in the compelling illustration so generously provided by Sator - would they look right without a matching or appropriate top hat? I am intrigued by the idea of reviving these styles, but I wonder if they were designed not to stand alone, but to work, visually, with a certain kind of hat.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

medwards said:


> When one looks back on the actual changes in the hat industry, one finds a rather large number of converging factors that indeed _evolved_ over time, including the growth of central heating and climate controlled buildings, the effect of the automobile (both in terms of the way it protected gentlemen from the elements and its limitations for hat wearers), the greater postwar trend toward less formality in dress, the sense of rebellion against structure and class beginning in the 1950s, first shorter mens hairstyles in the 1950s and then longer cuts in the 1960s, Hollywood's dislike for hats on men (except villains) because they hid facial features and made actors more difficult to light, etc.... And so it goes....


Sun glasses as well.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I note that a couple of posters have cited "youth culture rebellion" as a factor in the decline of hat wearing. I don't follow this. As someone old enough to remember the flower-power era very well, the hippie/counterculture males were actually very avid hat wearers, much more so than the general "straight" male population. I am using the terminology in effect during that era when I say "straight." Today it seems to be a synonym for heterosexual.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Isaac Mickle said:


> Finally, topcoats with capes - such as the one featured in the compelling illustration so generously provided by Sator - would they look right without a matching or appropriate top hat? I am intrigued by the idea of reviving these styles, but I wonder if they were designed not to stand alone, but to work, visually, with a certain kind of hat.


If the Inverness overcoat is made of tweed (with perhaps a hunter green or navy facing to the cape) then a top hat would be unnecessary. Sherlock Holmes certainly didn't wear a top hat with his. Any hat would be nice but you could also go without. However, the version in black with a red facing to the cape would be best with white tie - and top hat.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

JLibourel said:


> I note that a couple of posters have cited "youth culture rebellion" as a factor in the decline of hat wearing. I don't follow this. As someone old enough to remember the flower-power era very well, the hippie/counterculture males were actually very avid hat wearers, much more so than the general "straight" male population. I am using the terminology in effect during that era when I say "straight." Today it seems to be a synonym for heterosexual.


As noted earlier, the "rebellion" began in the fifties. While it is true that hats and vests were not uncommon among the "counter-culture" of the 60's, they were worn in such a way as to have some fun with these establishment symbols not as an indication of proper dress and custom. In some ways, that actually was a greater show of disregard for the formality and propriety of these items than if they hadn't worn them at all. At least that's the way_ I _remember it.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

*Morning Dress*



Andy said:


> It was a silk top hat that went with the morning *suit* that he wore! He may have had it off his head most of the day, but he did wear a hat!


Sorry to be the pedant Andy but it's morning _*dress*_.

This is something that even some historic dress authors get stuck on for we moderns have been conditioned to think that when dressing more formally we wear a 'suit' (from the French 'suivre', 'to follow'). However, in the past as far as full dress was concerned it was more formal to wear non-matching trousers (in formal stripes or checks) - quite the opposite of today. A lounge suit was considered casual dress and it was considered quite shocking to wear one in town. Any self respecting lady would have pretended not to recognise any gentleman so attired. For those who did insist on an informal town suit, they had a 'ditto suit' made with a morning coat of notched lapels or a frock coat and matching trousers. Even then purists considered this to be bad form.

I have heard the term "dress suit" used in an old black and white English movie to drescribe a white tie ensemble. Generally however 19th century authors seem to think in terms of "dressing up" rather than "suiting up".


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## lakewolf (Aug 6, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> The disappearance of hats can be traced to the contemporaneous rise of youth culture in the 1950's. Young men have much less need for hats than older men for obvious reasons. Kennedy wanted to show his hair. Ike did not. Now all fashion is driven by young people. No hats.


That is not true, I see many youths wearing caps, and more specifically I see some wearing expensive hip-hop influenced baseball caps, that are more expensive than a felt fedora...

Myself I started wearing fedoras this year


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

Rich said:


> In bygone days hats were much more than head protectors or decoration - *they were also signs of social status and group affiliation* (in the UK, bowler hat, top hat and flat cap were emblems - in France the beret, I don't know about the US). There were rules for taking them off - for example to show respect (i.e. to hold back your status).
> 
> Hats had different meanings for men and women of course (women didn't have to doff theirs and kept them on in church and at table, for example).
> 
> Hats were part of what is now a dead language. Why this language died out (in the Western World, that is - not elsewhere I suspect) is an interesting question. There must be a good book somewhere on the ethnosociological history of hat wearing. If not then there's an interesting opportunity for a forumite!


This is an excellent comment, Rich. Spot on.

I would add to it by saying that the _primary_ function of hats (and other clothes) is, in fact, social rather than functional. Clothes of all kinds are designed, produced, sold and worn, in the first instance, based upon their social significance. Clothes are, first and foremost, costume.

Functionality is a distant second. People like to pretend that functionality is more important than it is, for some reason. It's not easily quantified, but by way of illustration, I'd say that the style of one's clothing is 99.9% social-costume and 0.1% function. If clothes were all about function, then we'd still be primarily clothed in animal skins, and spend the rest of the time mostly naked.

There was an elaborate system of meaning concerning hats in the European medieval period. (There was a similar system in many other regions and other pre-modern cultures, but expressed in different terms.) The virtual universality of sumptuary laws demonstrates the significance of hats. Each type of job had its own form of hat. Hats not only reflected social class, but your particular line of work, from soldiers to priests to bakers to cabinetmakers.

The decline of the hat corresponds very neatly to the rise of the modern nation state. The more powerful a government becomes in the daily lives of a society, the less distinctive are its clothes. It is no accident that societies with the most repressive governments have the least variety of clothing, both as a result of legal diktat and economic pressure.

Conversely, the more that a society is regulated by private, non-governmental means, the more important that various forms of group affiliation become.

The hat is, of course, the clothing that we wear on our heads. Heads are where people focus most of their attention, hence the tremendous intricacy of muscles located on the face, which communicates most of our social cues. We pay more attention to the head and face area than any other area of clothes - just think of the significance of hair style, facial hair, collars, ties, lapels, etc., or make-up. The space between the upper chest and the top of the head communicates a vast amount of information about who you are (or who you want to be, at least).

I don't think it is too much to say that the disappearance of the hat is part of the disintegration of society. It is no different than the loss of the sophistication of our language and the decline in the subtlety of fine art. These aspects of Western culture have been on parallel trajectories for the last century or two.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Phinn said:


> I don't think it is too much to say that the disappearance of the hat is part of the disintegration of society.


(!) Well, it's certainly true that at one time (not so very long ago) it was unthinkable for anyone, man, woman or even child, to go "out" bare-headed - "out" meaning out into society, i.e. public places, starting with the street, where you were seen by people in general, as distinct from just people you were close to. When you went "out", you were "dressed". A man took his hat off only when "in company", that is with people he knew personally - at home, at work, at play, etc.

A lost world...


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

medwards said:


> As noted earlier, the "rebellion" began in the fifties. While it is true that hats and vests were not uncommon among the "counter-culture" of the 60's, they were worn in such a way as to have some fun with these establishment symbols not as an indication of proper dress and custom. In some ways, that actually was a greater show of disregard for the formality and propriety of these items than if they hadn't worn them at all. At least that's the way_ I _remember it.


I was cogitating about your reply this morning. I really don't see the hippies fondness for hats and vests as having "some fun with these establishment symbols." Obviously, no-one would regard hippie attire as "an indication of proper dress and custom." In the first place, by the time of the rise of the hippie culture, both hats and vests had largely become passe as normal business attire. The hats and vests favored in the hippie culture were so dissimilar to normal business attire that I never would have perceived them as parodies or whatever of the latter, any more than I would regard the fringed jackets often favored by hippies as parodies of the suit coat. I see the broad-brimmed hats, the leather vests, the fringed leather jackets, etc., as sort of a playful fondness for the cowboy, Indian and mountain man cultures. A large segment of the hippie generation were into "back to the land," "back to nature," "Whole Earth Catalog" ideologies that the fringed jackets, the leather hats, etc., were highly congruent with.

I would agree that the hippies' fondness for military surplus attire was indeed largely motivated by a desire to parody military uniforms, however.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Cutting right to the chase, two factors keep my head unadorned. First, I am tall enough to require the hat to be removed when driving. Second, and perhaps more important, I have the worst case of "hat hair" on the planet. Ski cap, Stetson, Kangol wool cap, no matter--5 minutes of wear and I look like Dennis the Menace in need of a shampoo. Bill


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*Moderator's Note*: In the course of the foregoing discussion, a conversation began about the Inverness cape/cloak/coat. In order to keep that discussion from being lost among these postings on headwear, I thought it prudent to begin a separate thread on that subject. Those messages that related solely to the Inverness cape have been moved to that new thread. You can find this continuing discussion of the Inverness coat here.


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## Michaelgmd (Jul 14, 2005)

*Hats, gone?*

I didn't notice that hats were not being worn?
LOL
Especially since I have both my winter and summer collection from Optimo here in Chicago. I wear them every day when I need them...having a lack of hair, they are a necessity both in the cold of winter and the sun of summer.
And because I choose to wear nothing but wonderful hats, I receive lots of positive comments about them. 
And my wife thinks they make me look really hot.....

MAG


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## jmonroestyle (Nov 6, 2006)

Michaelgmd said:


> I didn't notice that hats were not being worn?
> LOL
> Especially since I have both my winter and summer collection from Optimo here in Chicago. I wear them every day when I need them...having a lack of hair, they are a necessity both in the cold of winter and the sun of summer.
> And because I choose to wear nothing but wonderful hats, I receive lots of positive comments about them.
> ...


I couldn't have said it any better myself.
Ditto to everything you just said.
Long live the hat!!!


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## indylion (Feb 28, 2005)

*Hats (not caps) in the black communities*

Very few black men were hatless before the black power movement in the late 60s. As more guys wore longer hair (e.g afro) styles, less guys wore hats. Hats are still popular with many guys older than 50. Hats today, are still more popular in black communities than mainstream America.


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## indylion (Feb 28, 2005)

*movie "The Good Shepherd"*

This is a "hat wearing " movie. Very few men are seen outside hatless.
Matt was wearing a hat made by Biltimore (it had a Biltimore label)


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

Country Irish said:


> In recent times hats are the signature of movie gangsters and private eyes.


I recently wore a black fedora with a dark top coat. Two people told me I looked like one of the Corleones from The Godfather. Don't think I will do it again.


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

*I am sure that hats went out with the advent of . . .*

. . . longer hair for men.

Hats went into decline in the 60's, when the fashion for men's hair (particularly young men's hair) was for it to be left longer, rather than shorter.

In NYC, at least now, and from where I can observe, hats, i.e. proper hats (fedoras and the like) remain the province of those lacking cranial thatch (i.e. the bald, my own category), those gentlemen old enough to have continued to wear hats since the '60's, and those ethnic groups for which a hat is an essential part of the identifying costume.

The "youth culture" of the USA has brought us the abomination of middle-aged men wearing baseball caps in winter with suits (American men cling to their teen years with eagles' talons). This is ironic, since I have received, over the years, numerous compliments on my fedoras, inevitably from members of the opposite sex (though, perhaps, it is merely because I have a "hat face"). Somehow, I am sure that those men who wear baseball caps with suits do not receive the same comments - much to their detriment.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

upr_crust said:


> . . . longer hair for men.
> 
> Hats went into decline in the 60's, when the fashion for men's hair (particularly young men's hair) was for it to be left longer, rather than shorter.


December 1796 - one of the so called Incroyables

https://imageshack.us


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## Isaac Mickle (Nov 28, 2006)

Of all the explanations that have been ventured in this thread, the most persuasive begins with the observation that the average man is much less exposed to the elements than they were in previous centuries. 

That said, the elite hats and surtouts and overcoats that we admire in C19 illustrations were probably not created with practical considerations in mind. Elite, urban C19 gentlemen were probably no more exposed to the elements than most readers of Ask Andy.

Gentlemen wore hats because most men wore hats. A new, glossy hat looked distinguished in a crowd of dull, weather-beaten hats. And a bare head in the open air of an 1880 New York City winter probably looked as unusual as some hats look today in the same place in similar weather conditions.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

What kind of hats are making comebacks these days?


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## Parker Gabriel (Sep 18, 2013)

Personally, I can cite the top hat as being a variety of headgear that is returning. It could be the steampunk aesthetic, for all I know, that may be driving this trend.


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## Parker Gabriel (Sep 18, 2013)

*And what happened to the deerstalker?*

Aside from Holmesians who admire their hero enough to, in some cases, want to dress as Sidney Paget showed him doing, the "deerstalker" style of men's cap (a close-fitting cap with two visors, the one up front and the other in the back, and ear flaps that can be tied on the top of the crown or under the wearer's chin) seems to be going out of style, and I have not the least idea why.

I plan to conduct a personal experiment in millinery and construct just such a cap for myself, in all black. Once I have completed it, I mean also to post photographs of myself wearing it.


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## Mmichael (Jul 12, 2005)

*Hats and long hair*

JFK is frequently mentioned on this topic. His hair was still short on the sides. "Proper hats (fedoras and the like)" simply don't look very good on people with hair that's long on the sides. That's a general statement; would be pleased to see exceptions.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Parker, I wouldn't do it myself. It's a country hat worn with country clothes, was incorrect for Paget's Holmes to wear in the city to begin with. In fact, the novels only describe him wearing the now-iconic hat while he was in the country, quite true to the time period. Of course there's less of a divide in country and city clothes now, but it's still the incorrect formality level. Making it a colour associated with city hats when it's traditionally made of a neutral coloured, rough fabric such as tweed would be a bit of an oxymoron.

More than likely, people generally think it costumey and old fashioned now. But you're indeed correct that it's a functional piece of headgear.



Mike147 said:


> There's been lots of talk about JFK helping to kill the hat in America. Check out this Amazon link:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Hatless-Jack-President-History-American/dp/0452285232


Hats were in decline decades before he was in office, and believe it or not he actually was seen wearing a top hat for his inauguration (an appropriate accoutrement to his morning wear) and a stingy fedora from time to time when outside. His lessened hat wearing is merely a symptom of the decline in men's hats that started before him, not an inciting incident.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

One can come up with a goodly number of things to fault JFK for, but the decline in men's hats isn't one of them.:icon_smile_big:


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Coming into this thread late, but, the head rests in modern cars are a real pain when wearing a triby, or any such hat with a brim.

Continuing the car theme, in the early 50's, as Harley Earl continued his doctrine at GM, "to lower and lengthen the American Automobile", the chairman of Chrysler, K.T. Keller, insisted that his company's cars were styled to allow a man to drive while wearing his hat. This resulted in Chrysler styling falling behind for a while until Virgil Exner's _Forward Look _arrived in 1955.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Odradek brings up an interesting observation that might help explain the hats demise. It is difficult to get into a car with your hat intact. As they have evolved from Motorized horseless carriages and become sleek and aerodynamic, the entranceway has become lower. This entails constantly removing and replacing one's hat. It probably just became too much of a pain in the ass to continue to use. Baseball caps snugly fit the head and offer no encumbrances to headroom. Unfortunately that makes them more easily worn. They are probably the worst piece of clothing one can wear, and should never be seen outside of a stadium or golf course. It astounds me how many men do not realize how ridiculous they look when worn in public. As an American who travels a bit, I'm always embarrassed to see my fellow countrymen wearing them, and not noticing how out of place they look in other countries Might as well drape a flag over oneself and wear a sign screaming I'm a doltish colonial . But then people might not look down to see their sandals/sneakers and short white socks.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

I believe the decline of the hat was really all of these things - As cars took over our lives we walked outside less so the need for them lessened, and then automobile seat designs made hat-wearing difficult. Men's hairstyles (at least in the 60s-70s) became longer and more challenged for both hat-wearing and consistent sizing. As hat-wearing declined, we then started losing the infrastructure to support their wear - things like hat-checkrooms and hat-racks. This hastened their unpopularity as they became more and more trouble. It wasn't any one thing, but a progression.

I for one would love to wear a hat more often today... IF I had a place to put it when I'm inside.


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## Ματθαῖος (Jun 17, 2011)

What's with the recent trend of resurrecting AAAC forum threads form 2006?

Matthew


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

As one who has dabbled in nice hats, Grayson is pretty on target. If you are wearing a fedora and go out to eat, proper etiquette is to remove you hat indoors, and with no hat racks or coat check rooms, you're sitting there at the table with a fedora taking up real estate.

Additionally, nice hats are tough to stock. Most properly, you need a hat sized to your head ( 7 1/2, 7 5/8, etc). This is easy to accommodate with stackable baseball hats; not so much so with nice fedoras which need to be housed in a large oval box. When the decline of hats started, stores that stocked them, and manufacturers who made them likely found themselves with a glut of unsold inventory. These days, the best hats are generally bespoke. And at prices that will shock.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Parker Gabriel said:


> Personally, I can cite the top hat as being a variety of headgear that is returning.


Things clearly remain different in Philadelphia. I have never seen a top hat worn in my entire 60 years on earth.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

MaxBuck said:


> Things clearly remain different in Philadelphia. I have never seen a top hat worn in my entire 60 years on earth.


They are still worn at the races - The Derby and Royal Ascot and certain stock exchange functionaries in The City of London used to wear top hats until 1986.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

The deerstalker was taken up by football 'casuals' in the 1980s. I still see deerstalkers on market stalls. https://footballfanculture.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/deerstalker.jpg


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

A perfect and quite stylish answer to the problem of autos with low roofs is the driving cap. Why more men don't wear them is a mystery to me. I have an entire drawer full.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I guess people these days people aren't as stylish as they once used to be.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Ματθαῖος said:


> What's with the recent trend of resurrecting AAAC forum threads form 2006?
> 
> Matthew


Style is timeless


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

Seems like it happened very quickly. As a boy I remember men in hats out and about as well as on television, films etc. in the Fall of 1966, by 1968 hats had vanished.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Hitch said:


> Seems like it happened very quickly. As a boy I remember men in hats out and about as well as on television, films etc. in the Fall of 1966, by 1968 hats had vanished.


But I believe in the 1970's, men wore leather caps.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

That's a very strange looking man . . .


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Kingstonian said:


> The deerstalker was taken up by football 'casuals' in the 1980s. I still see deerstalkers on market stalls. https://footballfanculture.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/deerstalker.jpg


The one shown in the picture is the Sherlock Holmes type, with ear-flaps. (Were the ear-flaps ever used, I wonder?) But there is another type of deerstalker - the "fore-and-aft" - without such flaps, and this type of hat was certainly around in rural Scotland until at least the 1980s .


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## altovintner (Aug 7, 2013)

Lately I have been wearing hats, including a panama hat and a fedora. After the last 6 trips to the dermatologist office where the good doctor has burned off a number of basal cell growths, I have been advised to use good suntan cream and wear a hat. Moreover, at age 66, I have this sort of I-can-wear-anything-I-want-at-my-age-and-who-cares attitude. What I find interesting is that I have received more compliments when I am wearing my hats (most recent was a business to Austin last week where I wore a panama hat with a fedora-type look) than I can count. 

As a further comment, I live in south central New Mexico, where cowboy hats are worn all the time as we are in cowboy-horse country. Indeed I have cowboy hats that I wear here and there. People's idea of formal around here is ironed wrangler jeans, good cowboy boots, ironed western shirt, and a good hat. Coat and tie is very rare, and can even get you killed if you don't watch out. :biggrin:

My most recent Ebay hat purchase is a black homburg that I am wearing today.

Blessings to all,


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

altovintner said:


> Lately I have been wearing hats, including a panama hat and a fedora. After the last 6 trips to the dermatologist office where the good doctor has burned off a number of basal cell growths, I have been advised to use good suntan cream and wear a hat. Moreover, at age 66, I have this sort of I-can-wear-anything-I-want-at-my-age-and-who-cares attitude. What I find interesting is that I have received more compliments when I am wearing my hats (most recent was a business to Austin last week where I wore a panama hat with a fedora-type look) than I can count.
> 
> As a further comment, I live in south central New Mexico, where cowboy hats are worn all the time as we are in cowboy-horse country. Indeed I have cowboy hats that I wear here and there. People's idea of formal around here is ironed wrangler jeans, good cowboy boots, ironed western shirt, and a good hat. Coat and tie is very rare, and can even get you killed if you don't watch out. :biggrin:
> 
> ...


Yes, there are aspects to aging that become liberating. There is an aspect to wearing fedoras that many under 50 would find off putting in terms of making them look too "mature." At a point, you cross a line where you don't care if you look too "mature." Having dabbled in fine fedoras and guys who wear them, it takes a strong personality and sense of personal style to regularly sport a fedora under 50 or so.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Oldsarge said:


> That's a very strange looking man . . .


I was just saying that men wore hats in the 70's too, the caps with the brim in the front. BTW, that's a woman.


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## Ed Wiser (Oct 20, 2012)

As a member of the fedora lounge this topic comes up all the time.  There are articles in hat trade magazines about the hat sales going down as far back as the 1900's. 

The problem today is that most cities do not have a proper hat shop. So good hats and ones that work with your face shape are not available to the average man. The short brim fabric fedora just does not work for most people.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

True. Anyone in SoCal serious about a man's hat these days must resort to the 'Net, though I have been informed that what is referred to as the 'borscht belt' in Los Angeles does have some and I believe there is one in Pasadena. I don't consider the Hat Shoppe in Seaport Village particularly serious . . .


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

Actually, the story I heard was that it had to do with changes in the designs of automobiles. As cars became more aerodynamic and lower, there was not adequate headroom for one to wear a hat while inside.


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## Ed Wiser (Oct 20, 2012)

I wear my hat in the car all the time. 
Most fashion has gotten sloppier over the years. As sandles ,T shirt and shorts have become everyday wear for most people.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

How do I measure my head to fit one of those fashion hats in stores like they sell in Burlington Coat Factory or Macys? Do I have to ask one of those guys to measure my head with a tape?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Take a fabric tape measure and wrap it around your head at the point you would want a hat to sit. Compare your result (in inches or centimeters) with one of those sizing conversion charts to convert same to small, medium, etc, and buy accordingly! Since the hats you are referring to are not specifically sized, some degree of compromise on the size will be required. Enjoy the hunt!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

But do get exact metric measurements. That way when you get serious enough to order either an Akubra or a custom, you will be able to order the exact size and it will fit first time off.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

My $.02: when I played in an R&B band several years ago, older African-American men would definitely wear fedoras for important occasions. I played a Valentine's Day gig, for example, and it was eye-opening. All the young folk looked terrible, though, and this was the heyday of crunk, a rhythmically tedious subgenre that the DJ would spin between sets, so it wasn't all fun.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

I blame it on the lessening popularity of Curious George among the young.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

I think hats died for mainstream men because they seemed old fashioned after Kennedy's New Frontier(-that 'passing the torch' thing, whether Kennedy himself killed them by example or not). Who wanted to look like dad and grandpa then? And it was one less thing to fiddle with. It's a bother stowing it at a restaurant or event now.
On the other hand, hats have made a resurgence with many younger men (hip hop and hipsters) and us older guys who just say 'screw it', and wear them for comfort in cold weather. Fedoras rule!


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## kravi (Feb 26, 2013)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Take a fabric tape measure and wrap it around your head at the point you would want a hat to sit. Compare your result (in inches or centimeters) with one of those sizing conversion charts to convert same to small, medium, etc, and buy accordingly! Since the hats you are referring to are not specifically sized, some degree of compromise on the size will be required. Enjoy the hunt!


Stop by your local sports store to get a Yankees/Mets fitted cap. The fitted hats are sized properly (I'm a 7 5/8ths both in baseball and serious hats). IE whatever fitted hat fits, that number will be the same as your "dress" hat.

--Me


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Take a fabric tape measure and wrap it around your head at the point you would want a hat to sit. Compare your result (in inches or centimeters) with one of those sizing conversion charts to convert same to small, medium, etc, and buy accordingly! Since the hats you are referring to are not specifically sized, some degree of compromise on the size will be required. Enjoy the hunt!


Then what if a hat is too big? Should I look for something smaller?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

kravi said:


> Stop by your local sports store to get a Yankees/Mets fitted cap. The fitted hats are sized properly (I'm a 7 5/8ths both in baseball and serious hats). IE whatever fitted hat fits, that number will be the same as your "dress" hat.
> 
> --Me


I'm not really a sports fan to wear a "sports" logo sports team. Can I go into a Modells and ask someone to measure my head like they do with shoes?


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## kravi (Feb 26, 2013)

Howard said:


> I'm not really a sports fan to wear a "sports" logo sports team. Can I go into a Modells and ask someone to measure my head like they do with shoes?


You don't need to buy the hat. Just stop a sports shop to find which hat fits. The "fitted" baseball caps, in my experience, are true to size. So if you find a 7 5/8ths baseball cap fits, then you know your hat size. And Modell's won't begrudge you trying on a hat or two without buying it 

--Me


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

It was because of that blasted song from the 80's, "Safety Dance". :crazy:


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

filfoster said:


> ...On the other hand, hats have made a resurgence with many younger men (hip hop and hipsters) and us older guys who just say 'screw it', and wear them for comfort in cold weather. Fedoras rule!


My issue with younger men wearing the modern takes on hats is this - Etiquette.










The little buggers are clueless that a man removes his hat indoors. :icon_headagainstwal


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

It's not just them. How many allegedly grown men do you see in restaurants with their ball caps/Western hats on at the table? Too dern many, that's how many. Of course, the fool restaurants that don't provide at least a hook to hang it from are just as much to blame.


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## The Old Gaul (Oct 7, 2012)

Readers; In regards to hats and the lack thereof in Society, I enjoyed all the responses, but would add a bit. The hat makers 'shot their foot' in the circa 1960's when the hat brim was cut back to one inch (or less). That is too narrow, it makes your nose look long; and if your face is not a certain shape, the whole looks odd. What is more curious; from the early 1960's to today, the Army (others?) issued Boonie Hats. These round, flat top soft hats had a 2/12 or 03 inch brim[ I loved mine in 1969; and still wear one 'around the farm]. I have several circa 1940 repro hats which I wear, a 'hardboiled hat' does not look good on me. If you want to win the prize for stares from the publick whilst going about with headgear- try wearing a Scots Bonnet! Also the lack of hats seems to be an urban fashion; folks from Texas or other Western States take great pride in their hats, and the style of the hat can identifiy the State the wearer lives. Thus a 06$ cowboy hat from Wal Mart says you are from Western China! A 500$ Resitiol (sic)hat says you are from Western USA. Walking sticks went out for several reasons, concealed weapons laws, no where to put them in a bar, ect. and the fact, that to most young sorts, a 'cane' is the badge of Old Age. With that said, I have used and collect walking sticks from all over- I have one from VietNam, circa 1969 and 1990. I love the use of a walking stick(espc. since I now need one!) But try to find any publick place where you can put one while having lunch. By contrast, when I was in Japan, circa 1970, there were locking racks in front of most shops, where you could put in a 'quarter' and lock up your umbrella!. And last to coats: you can still buy an Inverness Coat, in your choice of fabricks, as well as an Ulster. I have both types, and often wear my repro Civil War Coat, as well. I would like to know if anyone can tell me why a mans overcoat, which once went to the ankles in length, now barely covers the knees? That is drafty enough in trowsers, it is impossible in a kilt, snow drifts on my neither regions is not a happy feeling! All of my overcoats are WOOL(did you ever see a sheep shiver in the cold?) and reach near to the ankles in length. This is a good thread, & I hope these comments are helpful and continue the dialogue.
As Ever The old Gaul


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Yes. I end up putting my hat under my chair when venturing out for lunch in cold weather here. Not that I need a hat check but there's nowhere to put the durned things.
I've been wearing one for about twenty years now, since I was a bus commuter in the wintertime and needed something to keep the rain and snow out of my face and my head warm. Akubras rule! I have about 8 Fed III's and IV's.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

While on a road trip this past week, my wife saw fit to point out to me that since I sold my Ford pick-up and replaced it with an SRX, I have not been wearing my fedoras and Panamas with the regularity that I once did. The hats still get taken with us, but the SRX just does not have the head room of a crew cab pick-up and I have to remove the lids)) to prevent them from being jammed into the headliner. Getting in and out of the vehicle, the hats (with increasing regularity) seem to be being left in the back seat. As I believe others mentioned earlier in this thread, the design of today's vehicles do seem to have a depressive effect on the utility of our hats! LOL. Add that to the inconvenience of having no place to put them when they are taken off while indoors and... :crazy:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

My Freestyle doesn't have the problem . . . 


Perhaps this is a minor reason for the growing preference for small SUV's and crossovers in the U.S. auto market . . . along with the improved visibility and practicality, of course.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Grayson said:


> My issue with younger men wearing the modern takes on hats is this - Etiquette.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That echoes my point on baseball caps of another thread. No one seems to remove their lids indoors. We had to refuse to let our son eat dinner until he finally got the message to remove his hat at the table. Believe me, he went hungry many a night, and thought We were being ridiculous old farts. Now he never would consider sitting down at a table with a hat on.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

kravi said:


> You don't need to buy the hat. Just stop a sports shop to find which hat fits. The "fitted" baseball caps, in my experience, are true to size. So if you find a 7 5/8ths baseball cap fits, then you know your hat size. And Modell's won't begrudge you trying on a hat or two without buying it
> 
> --Me


I'll have to look into that.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Oldsarge said:


> It's not just them. How many allegedly grown men do you see in restaurants with their ball caps/Western hats on at the table? Too dern many, that's how many. Of course, the fool restaurants that don't provide at least a hook to hang it from are just as much to blame.


I don't see many of them anymore.


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## Mute (Apr 3, 2005)

Oldsarge said:


> True. Anyone in SoCal serious about a man's hat these days must resort to the 'Net, though I have been informed that what is referred to as the 'borscht belt' in Los Angeles does have some and I believe there is one in Pasadena. I don't consider the Hat Shoppe in Seaport Village particularly serious . . .


I agree. I've tried a few here in SoCal including Hat Shoppe, Hollywood Hatters and Goorin Bros. in Pasadena. I finally gave up and gave in. I ordered a custom hat from Vintage Silhouette. I'm glad I did.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Sad, isn't it? It seems that sending off to Australia or having bespoke are one's sole choices any more.


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## Mute (Apr 3, 2005)

Oldsarge said:


> Sad, isn't it? It seems that sending off to Australia or having bespoke are one's sole choices any more.


It is. How will wearing hat ever have a chance when the best you can do locally is to find a wool fedora that isn't entirely atrocious. I try to completely deny the existence of those all too popular but ugly, tiny brimmed, cloth trilby hats that are passed off as fedoras nowadays.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Well, I look at them along the lines of the childrens' stories about _Captain Underpants_. Yes, both are vulgar and somewhat grotesque but they do have the possibility of acting as gateways to better taste in both literature and mens hats. I know that sounds unlikely but I have seen a little boy who wouldn't ready anything but the damned CU series suddenly come alive to _The Wind in the Willows._ So it can happen. My own nephew in his current somewhat impoverished state cannot afford anything but cheap stingy brims. So I gave him a decent panama. He wears it. I'm looking to getting him an Akubra stylemaster either for Christmas or his next birthday. Those crummy stingies do have their place. It's just a very low one.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Mute said:


> I agree. I've tried a few here in SoCal including Hat Shoppe, Hollywood Hatters and Goorin Bros. in Pasadena. I finally gave up and gave in. I ordered a custom hat from Vintage Silhouette. I'm glad I did.


I've got a few from Art, straws and beavers. Soon it will be cool enough to wear the beaver.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

You don't see guys wearing pimp hats anymore.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

drrobert said:


> If you look back at men of great sartorial splendor in the 19th century and up to maybe the early forties and fifties of the 20th century, you would invariably find that they would wear a hat as an integral part of their clothing ensemble. All of us on AAAC still appreciate a great looking suit, a world class shirt, gorgeous trousers, a well-crafted silk tie, and extraordinary shoes, so why did the hat disappear as part of the total look for a well-dressed gentleman? I would also like to know why spats are rarely if ever seen and why men do not carry walking sticks as well-dressed gentleman once did.(There is even a line about walking sticks and men in the song "Putting on the Ritz" memorably sung by Gene Wilder in "Young Frankenstein") Furthermore, we all have seen some of the most beautiful overcoats imagineable from Savile Row tailors and Chris Despos, yet I never see one that mimics Sherlock Holmes' caped overcoat which would be striking if done with a modern flair as Thomas Mahon just did with his most-recent Victorian era gray replica overcoat. Can anyone tell me why most of these once venerable aspects of men's fashion are no longer on the scene anymore?drrobert


Because what is stylish is also contingent on what is fashionable, and they are no longer in fashion. Nothing is locked in time and it's pointless to wish it to be. No one wants to dress in a fashion that mimics a particular period no longer present, since that is the very definition of costume.


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## Parker Gabriel (Sep 18, 2013)

Howard said:


> You don't see guys wearing pimp hats anymore.


And no wonder--in the video for "Steam," from his album _Us,_ Peter Gabriel made his party guy look out-and-out COMICAL wearing one!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Sort of like a scene from _The Mask_, no?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Parker Gabriel said:


> And no wonder--in the video for "Steam," from his album _Us,_ Peter Gabriel made his party guy look out-and-out COMICAL wearing one!


I know, it was in the beginning of the video.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Don't forget Cosmo Kramer, her worn the pimp hat too in one Seinfeld episode.


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## Fatman (May 7, 2013)

Isaac Mickle said:


> Hello all. I am a new poster here. Forgive me if I look confused.
> 
> Men still wear hats. As i stood in a supermarket line today, I noticed many older men wearing small, dirty-looking tan or gray baseball caps. Many were turned out in what might otherwise pass for business-casual attire. It was khaki hats and khaki pants. Such use of the baseball hat may be another example of the reign of youth in clothing style today.
> 
> ...


We moved to Maine and my son, then 16, held a door for a woman at the mall, and got tongue lashed by her. 
I was raised with 7 sisters and was taught it would have been unmanly for me to raise a hand to one of them. 
I have 4 sons and have raised them to show, in some form, outward respect to women. They do it, but it is not the norm.

We did have a fun story to tell about this...

2 years ago, while coaching Little League, when we passed the moms, I had prepped the boys to all remove their caps, in a sign of respect.

I saw more mouths gaping open that day than I had seen since the last church supper I attended (which was also my first church supper where the men rushed the grill to beat the women to the food...it was the last church supper as the culture of gimme first is just not my cup of joe).

Things have changed...

Every so often, as a blue moon passes, I see a great fedora walk by.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Bjorn: But they're functional as well as stylish, which is why a return to them would be welcome. Blocks against the sun and keeps the head warm in winter.

Fatman: Well that's just plain ridiculous. I hold doors open for anyone who's right behind me going in or near when standing outside the door, male or female. What exactly did she say to him? I'm considered a "male feminist" by my friends, but never once have I gotten reprimanded for acting as a gentleman. It's not one of those things that is hopelessly old fashioned, it's just good manners to be helpful and considerate to others -- again whether you're male or female.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Jovan said:


> Bjorn: But they're functional as well as stylish, which is why a return to them would be welcome. Blocks against the sun and keeps the head warm in winter.


But we can't direct fashion...


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

No, but we can wear what we want.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Does anyone wear Charlie Chaplin hats anymore?


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Howard said:


> Does anyone wear Charlie Chaplin hats anymore?


This is a bowler derby. I don't believe anyone, anywhere outside of a theatrical production wears one now. Perhaps our English members can opine, but I thought these had their last gasp in The City (London) in the '60's or '70's.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Mute said:


> It is. How will wearing hat ever have a chance when the best you can do locally is to find a wool fedora that isn't entirely atrocious. I try to completely deny the existence of those all too popular but ugly, tiny brimmed, cloth trilby hats that are passed off as fedoras nowadays.


I owe Gus Miller at our local hat shop, Batsakes, a nod. He can make anything you want, from the felt. His hats are beautiful. He last reconditioned a beautiful, 'latte' colored English made Brooks Brothers fedora I bought online so that it looks brand new. The fur felt is 'buttery' like '30's felt and he reblocked and relined it for a very reasonable cost. Just a small testimonial.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

While we're still on the subject, I have to share. I found this beautiful vintage fedora in the window of an Atlanta antique shop on Saturday (click thumbnail for a larger image)...








It was quite a find. Not only the perfect color for many of my suits, it was my size of 7 3/8 (it's rare to find older hats that fit me), made of beautiful fur felt, and in excellent condition. The gold lettering in the inside of the band wasn't even worn and no signs of wear. It's from a hat store open in Atlanta active until the 1960s, so my guess it was either stored in warehouse inventory for that long or bought for someone who never wore it. Bottom line is it set me back a grand total of $19. 

Please know that I'll be wearing it a lot this fall and winter... of course only outdoors and when appropriately dressed. 
When so many do something wrong I feel compelled to do it right, and more often.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

filfoster said:


> This is a bowler derby. I don't believe anyone, anywhere outside of a theatrical production wears one now. Perhaps our English members can opine, but I thought these had their last gasp in The City (London) in the '60's or '70's.


So no department store sells bowler derbys any longer?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Grayson said:


> While we're still on the subject, I have to share. I found this beautiful vintage fedora in the window of an Atlanta antique shop on Saturday (click thumbnail for a larger image)...
> View attachment 8924
> 
> 
> ...


That is, indeed, a grand hat. Well thrifted, that man!


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Howard said:


> So no department store sells bowler derbys any longer?


Howard,
Perhaps not department stores; however, here in the hinterlands of Albuquerque, there are many places to buy either new or vintage bound brim fur-felt bowlers should any wish to do so. As it happens, my son has one, and someday or another it would be my pleasure to have one as nice as his. One has many hats and caps of various kinds and materials for various purposes, but the realities of day-to-day life are not to be neglected, as you will appreciate. One has sufficient patience to await the opportune moment for the purchase as will certainly present at some moment. No hurries; No worries.
All is well in the land of the well dressed gentle persons of good will toward others.
Best Regards to your good self, now and always,
rudy


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Yes, you can still find new derbies but they are not as nice as the period ones. I bought a mint 'dead stock' one on ebay last year and it is miles better than the new Stetson I bought about the same time, for more money. The Stetson lacks the period brim shape-flatter at front and back, hard shell felt and general completely rounded shape of the early (1920's) one. The Stetson looks more like a fedora blank that was trimmed out to resemble a derby. I'm sure there are many other ways to get a new one but that's my personal experience with these.

www.riverjunction.com also has derbies that are very nice, very firm fur felt, nicely made, but not of a 20th century pattern. Their high derbies are _high quality_. Their low derby is......


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Well, Stetson isn't really like it was in other ways.


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Colleagues and Fellow Travelers,
One does appreciate the finer points noted (1920's had it's place and well comprehended in my personal lexicon of reference materials) and the loss of such skills as were common place and beyond the reach of many persons is also part of greater trends that ebb and flow across the ages, not a question of argument for my own part; however, as Sigorney Weaver's character said to the kids near the end of _Cabin in the Woods_, "We work with what we have." As things stand, one knows of many sources for various specialty needs and circumstances within my own reach without resourting to extravagence nor internet commerce of which many must partake to have even a livelihood. All these things are well known to myself. As my own interests are wide and deep and it gives me great pleasure to pay pennies for pounds, one is always available when needed and goes where one is called to be by interest and choice. Some of the Citizen's with whom one exchanges pleasantries have been here for over an hundred year period and have lost none of their wit nor surrendered to any adversity. Others have not fared as well and have been destroyed like the ancient hatters of Great Brittian who suffered and died from mercury poisioning, therefore, my own personal opinion is that a little nostalgia is not such a grave mistake as failing to find a better way to enable all to reach out and grasp their full flowering of potential that is paid with their honest work efforts and thoughtful explorations.
Best Regards and good evening to all gentlepersons without exception,
rudy


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)




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## Parker Gabriel (Sep 18, 2013)

The references to _*derby,*_ pronounced DURR-bee, hats are chiefly American; the British references to _*bowler*_ hats come from, if I'm not mistaken, _*Bowler*_ Brothers Milliners, of which this particular style of hat was, I surmise, their featured specialty.


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## taylorgtr (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm doing my best for the hat industry (though some are vintage)....Here are my latest acquisitions:









Stacy Adams wool felt








Beaver brand fur felt


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## taylorgtr (Jun 1, 2013)

....and my current favorite...a Resistol 990 fur felt fedora. Best looking one of all of them.








I also have some Stetson houndstooth check flat caps, and a Gottman Gore-Tex flat cap with ear flaps for really cold weather.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

I played an R&B gig in Southern Maryland about 8 years ago, on Valentine's day. I was the first band member to show up (I'm pretty sure I was the only white guy in the place, even by the end of the evening, and I was dressed pretty preppily, though a musician should be more dandyish), which inspired amused stares. I learned something: older African-American men and women, at least there, still dress up for Valentine's day, and dressing up means wearing a fedora, for men. That was 2005.


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## Bassist (Jul 3, 2012)

taylorgtr said:


> ....and my current favorite...a Resistol 990 fur felt fedora. Best looking one of all of them.
> View attachment 9065
> 
> 
> ...


Nice collection of hats! Thanks for sharing!

I must admit that I'm more used to seeing the Stetson and Resistol brand names at the local western apparel store, but I spend more time there than in any other hat shops!

Joe


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## danielm (May 2, 2012)

filfoster said:


> I owe Gus Miller at our local hat shop, Batsakes, a nod. He can make anything you want, from the felt. His hats are beautiful. He last reconditioned a beautiful, 'latte' colored English made Brooks Brothers fedora I bought online so that it looks brand new. The fur felt is 'buttery' like '30's felt and he reblocked and relined it for a very reasonable cost. Just a small testimonial.


I have been meaning to stop by Gus's ever since moving to Cincy a few years ago.


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## kravi (Feb 26, 2013)

I've got a Stetson Fedora which is lovely. It is a grey colour called "caribou". Quite useful in either the rain or when it is cold, though most of the year I go bareheaded.

I needed something I could wear that would go better with a suit than a wool knit hat. I find if it is raining or cold, nobody looks twice at it. I reckon I'd get a few more stares, however, if the day was nice.

--Me


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Danielm wrote: *I have been meaning to stop by Gus's (Gus Miller at Batsake's) ever since moving to Cincy a few years ago.

*You won't be sorry. He is such a nice guy and if he can't make it, you shouldn't wear it anyway.


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## kravi (Feb 26, 2013)

This might be the wrong thread for it, but it might not. How do you hat-wearers travel with hats? For example, when flying, there is usually not enough room overhead for a hat (assuming you put it in after everyone sits down so it won't get crushed), and having a hat on your lap for a 1 - 12 hour flight (depending on destination) is not practical.

What about restaurants or pubs? I'm not going to put a fur felt hat on the ground in those places.

--Me


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

kravi said:


> This might be the wrong thread for it, but it might not. How do you hat-wearers travel with hats? For example, when flying, there is usually not enough room overhead for a hat (assuming you put it in after everyone sits down so it won't get crushed), and having a hat on your lap for a 1 - 12 hour flight (depending on destination) is not practical.
> 
> What about restaurants or pubs? I'm not going to put a fur felt hat on the ground in those places.
> 
> --Me


New Member kravi,
An excellent point to raise!
As the ancient adage advises, 'The Safest Place for a Hat is On Your Head,' and another aphorism, 'imagine, here we are, two men, under God...' (if one may paraphrase and presumes one may in casual discourse upon an evening after a very long day) to your query: Should one be able to do so, it is possible to ship ahead to the destination by insured services when arrangements have been made; Otherwise, it is also possible to keep items with you as may be able to survive the rigors of modern times; And another thought, no one is offended if circumstances do not permit some compromise be made for safety and security in the interest we share in good order and the comfort of our neighbors in their travails.
As often as is possible, one avoids discomfort to others.
One also allows that this is not easy.
However, there is no reason to doubt that if it is needed, a way to a solution is available in any conditions as my present as long as the intent is one of benefit and grace for all we encounter, not as magical thinking but as reflection, a good night's sleep, and a fresh start each day may afford, or another way to say, keep a clear mind, a generous and sincere work ethic, and a thought may present itself, as needed. Those who are worth your time to be good comrades and partners in our travels know that your work is good and you have the will to always leave a place better than you found it with the strength of character to finish what you begin. Should that not be the case, let them be and move around them to proceed, as it is better to deflect and avoid than refuse and confront an obstacle. If it cannot be shipped, packed, rolled, lost, misplaced, or forgiven, it is likely not something you wanted in the first place.
There.
An opportunity to get a rest from concern,
rudy


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

RM Bantista said:


> New Member kravi,
> *If it cannot be shipped, packed, rolled, lost, misplaced, or forgiven, it is likely not something you wanted in the first place.
> There.
> *An opportunity to get a rest from concern,
> rudy


A useful yardstick that can also be applied to so many other things in life. I can only hope Mrs. Foster will never apply it to her husband.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

people still wear hats but I guess they don't think it's as fashionable as it once was.


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## taylorgtr (Jun 1, 2013)

filfoster said:


> A useful yardstick that can also be applied to so many other things in life. I can only hope Mrs. Foster will never apply it to her husband.


If you can get away with 'forgiven', the rest don't matter. Although I have been rolled on occasion. :icon_smile_big:


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## mj1 (Jun 10, 2009)

I wear fedoras outdoors all winter long, and I fly several times a week. I just usually find a sufficiently sized space inthe overhead above someone's briefcase or jacket and rest it there. I do not roll or fold it. Sometimes it emerges unscathed, sometimes it's a little bent. The more important consideration is that there's nothing wrong with a hat that looks like you wear it in the real world. It is, afterall, "outerwear" and shouldn't look like you just bought it. It should look like you love it, you wear it, and you're comfortable in it.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Crushable hats are also useful. Those can be rolled or folded up.


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## Pale_Male (May 20, 2013)

Jovan said:


> Crushable hats are also useful. Those can be rolled or folded up.


https://www.hammacher.com/publish/72314.asp


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## Pale_Male (May 20, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> Because what is stylish is also contingent on what is fashionable, and they are no longer in fashion. Nothing is locked in time and it's pointless to wish it to be. No one wants to dress in a fashion that mimics a particular period no longer present, since that is the very definition of costume.


Don't say this on the Trad Forum where all is "timeless." Of course this can also be the definition of "personal style" -- and "costume" is often "what I'm too insecure to wear". Some "costume" is more versatile than other. One can wear an Indiana Jones hat, jacket, and boots separately, and only look "costumey" if wearing all bits at the same time. Gatsby-wear by RL or BB certainly isn't outlandish attire for parties today. Dressing like Louis XV as painted by Van Loo would only seem right at a themed Costume Ball.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Pale_Male said:


> https://www.hammacher.com/publish/72314.asp


"We regret that this item is no longer available." Damn! Looks like a fine hat. Something like it would be quite useful for my lifestyle.


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## Pale_Male (May 20, 2013)

Jovan said:


> "We regret that this item is no longer available." Damn! Looks like a fine hat. Something like it would be quite useful for my lifestyle.


Try here:


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## softcollar (Oct 21, 2013)

Top hats are alive and well at the Royal Ascot race meeting (as shown here in 2012):


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

I haven't read all the pages, but the short answer is the switch from commuting primarily by train, with lots of headroom, to cars, with little headroom. 

Sent from my C6906 using Tapatalk


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## jessef (Mar 8, 2012)

I think men feel more inclined to care for their hair now that wearing a hat simply becomes distracting.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Safety Dance


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> Safety Dance


The Lannister children's music video?


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

I blame Caddyshack


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## Mute (Apr 3, 2005)

gaseousclay said:


> I blame Caddyshack


"But it looks good on you."


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

jessef said:


> I think men feel more inclined to care for their hair now that wearing a hat simply becomes distracting.


or maybe it's to cover their bald spot?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Reuben said:


> The Lannister children's music video?


No, the original video from 1983. Men Without Hats


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