# Return of US Horse Slaughtering: A Better Shell Cordovan Supply?



## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

It appears that within weeks. Currently, Horween is forced to import all of its hides. I wonder if this will result in a more plentiful supply of shells, or at least lower costs in sourcing hides.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

I saw that and wondered the same thing myself. Given the 6 month tanning process it would probably be a year or so best case before supply is impacted--but one would think it would eventually result in shorter cordovan lead times from Alden, etc.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

They've been slaughtering horses in the U.S. all along; it's simply that they (according to the article) haven't been slaughtered for human consumption for a number of years. I doubt that the demand for horse meat for human consumption is very high in the U.S., and I suspect, as the article states, that should a slaughterhouse attempt to start or resume butchering horses for human consumption, it will face significant opposition and their is no real domestic constituency to defend it. So, at best, it might result in a marginal increase in supply of horse hides which might improve Alden's margins, but I certainly wouldn't count on Alden changnig the annual price increases that they've had for, at least, the last 20 years........


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Article~But *pro-slaughter *activists say the ban had unintended consequences, including an increase in neglect and the abandonment of horses, and that they are scrambling to get a plant going - possibly in Wyoming, North Dakota, Nebraska or Missouri.

"Pro-slaughter"

Nice!!


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

My understanding is that there has not been any commercial slaughtering of horses in the US for several years. That's what has led to the problem of neglected and abandoned horses, not to mention forcing Horween to import all of their hides and shells.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

A possible increase in the supply of shells is one thing but in this economy the main benefit will be more steaks! :wink2:


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

AlanC said:


> My understanding is that there has not been any commercial slaughtering of horses in the US for several years. That's what has led to the problem of neglected and abandoned horses, not to mention forcing Horween to import all of their hides and shells.


 That's probably right and I'm confusing the issue. It may be that most of what goes on in the U.S. is euthanizing unwanted or old horses and then rendering them, which will produce hides in much smaller numbers and in much varying quality (i.e., sick/diseased/old horses probably have inferior hides, etc.). It would make much more sense to rely on a supplier of horse hides where they are slaughtering tens/hundreds of thousands of healthy horses for human consumption.


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> A possible increase in the supply of shells is one thing but in this economy the main benefit will be more steaks! :wink2:


Don't forget the "HORSE radish"......


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

....glue


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I thought the same thing when I read the article, I know, I'm terrible! And I was curious what they'll do w/ the meat since no one in the US eats it?

Brian


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

I think the processed horse meat is exported to France and some other parts of Europe. But more to AlanC's point: can the shells from any horse be used to make shell cordovan? I seem to remember hearing that the shells for cordovan manufacture came from draft horses, but I haven't been able to verify this yet.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

Italians have a lot of horsemeat recipes. It's sad to me to think young healthy horses would be killed just to make shoes for rich folks.


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## 12345Michael54321 (Mar 6, 2008)

According to the article, "The last U.S. slaughterhouse that butchered horses closed in 2007 in Illinois." When this slaughterhouse closed, was the result a significant reduction in the availability of shells, and a consequent increase in price? If so, then perhaps supply will improve and prices decline. If not, then I see no reason to assume that a resumption of horse butchering for human consumption will bring about better supply and lower prices.

So, anyone recall whether cordovan prices soared, back in '07?
-- 
Michael


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

My father remembered eating horsemeat during WWII and pronounced it excellent. Personally, I've never had the chance to give it a try but I will attest that zebra is excellent.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

This is undoubtedly tied to the recent reintroduction of the McRib.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

David J. Cooper said:


> Italians have a lot of horsemeat recipes. It's sad to me to think young healthy horses would be killed just to make shoes for rich folks.


It's true, the Mrs. had some horse tartare while we were in Italy. No one even bats an eye at such things over there.


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## chilton (Jul 16, 2008)

Regardless of an increase in shell supply, the end user(us) won't see a price reduction. Once a luxury good producer knows they can get a certain price they won't drop. Price stabilization plus a greater number of rare shell colors and more experimentation with styles is likely.

Unless you like horse meat you won't be getting anything cheap.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

*for you senior guys....*

A horse is a horse, unless of course,............Welllll, I don't know, Willlll-buuuuur, if I'm too happy about this one! (Favorite episode is Mr. Ed batting against Sandy Koufax. They don't make 'em like they used to.)


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

David J. Cooper said:


> Italians have a lot of horsemeat recipes. It's sad to me to think young healthy horses would be killed just to make shoes for rich folks.


I wouldn't order the veal if I wuz you!!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Trip English said:


> This is undoubtedly tied to the recent reintroduction of the McRib.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I wouldn't order the veal if I wuz you!!


I never order veal. Eating an animal that is forced to be anemic and is killed in it's youth seems perverse to me. I also don't eat commercial chicken or quail either.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

I live in Illinois, land of horse slaughterers. If anyone needs me to proxy some hides...



12345Michael54321 said:


> According to the article, "The last U.S. slaughterhouse that butchered horses closed in 2007 in Illinois." When this slaughterhouse closed, was the result a significant reduction in the availability of shells, and a consequent increase in price? If so, then perhaps supply will improve and prices decline. If not, then I see no reason to assume that a resumption of horse butchering for human consumption will bring about better supply and lower prices.
> 
> So, anyone recall whether cordovan prices soared, back in '07?
> --
> Michael


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

David J. Cooper said:


> I never order veal. Eating an animal that is forced to be anemic and is killed in it's youth seems perverse to me.


Veal, I believe, usually comes from male calves from dairy cows - the males are, obviously, useless for dairy and are not needed for breeding.

Better to kill them young than to let them mature and walk cool grasses, feel the sun on their faces, the soft morning dew on their flank, and let them fall in love with life only THEN to be killed - now that's cruel.

You object to commerical quail, but are OK with wild quail being hunted by dogs, and being wounded and killed by 20 and 16 gauge birdshot? Sheez.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Closing domestic slaughterhouses also "negatively affected lower- to medium-priced horses by 8 to 21 percent," exceeding the 4% drop in horse prices caused by the economic downturn, the report found. Those unintended consequences are one reason Congress and the Obama administration quietly lifted the horse ban in November.

Renee Duncan set up Meadowbrook Animal Sanctuary and Haven in 1988 to care for horses. Slaughtering them, she said, has no place in civilized society.

"When we had horse slaughter, every horse had a value. Now, without slaughter, if a horse does not ride, or is not a pet, it has no value," said Mike Murphy, owner of Mike's Livestock Auction in Mira Loma. "Those are horses being dumped, being let go. The animal do-gooders don't think about that."

https://www.latimes.com/news/local/...0111211,0,3791949.story?page=1&track=lat-pick

Not a word about shoes.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Epaminondas said:


> Veal, I believe, usually comes from male calves from dairy cows - the males are, obviously, useless for dairy and are not needed for breeding.
> 
> Better to kill them young than to let them mature and walk cool grasses, feel the sun on their faces, the soft morning dew on their flank, and let them fall in love with life only THEN to be killed - now that's cruel.
> 
> You object to commerical quail, but are OK with wild quail being hunted by dogs, and being wounded and killed by 20 and 16 gauge birdshot? Sheez.


Animals that are killed through hunting generally lives a better (or at least freer) life (up until a point) than the ones cooped up.

That said, horse tastes good.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

As long as they don't start slaughtering cats for slippers and throws and using the meat in certain foreign delicacies. I don't want to think what would happen if they came for my killer Manx!


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

In other news, Elmer's Glue is revising revenue projections upwards for 2012.

:icon_smile_wink:


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Bjorn said:


> Animals that are killed through hunting generally lives a better (or at least freer) life (up until a point) than the ones cooped up.
> 
> That said, horse tastes good.


1) So it's better to be free and live dangerously than to be kept, cared for, cooped up and safe. Interesting. 

2) I'll just take your word for it!!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Actually, horse meat is rather tasty...as I recall, it has rather a hint of sweetness to it that is decidedly absent in beef.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

^^^

Still, that's why God invented deer meat!!


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## Georgetown08 (Oct 5, 2011)

I spent the summer of 2008 working as a construction laborer. One of the plumbers on the jobsite was an Italian immigrant. When he learned that I had spent a summer there as a student, his first question was whether I had eaten any horse meat. He was very insistent that I try it if I'm ever there again.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Frankly I have never met a person who has actually sampled horse meat that didn't report it to be a pretty positive dining experience.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

The wild quail is practically extinct. 99% (made up statistic) of the quail killed by hunters are raised in pens and released to be pointed by dogs and then shot. If they aren't killed they are trained to return to a pen where they can fight another day.

I would also add that they are quite tasty. 

I have to wonder if it wouldn't be better to shoot a round or two of skeet and then wring the necks of the quail so as to avoid the bird shot.

If anybody would check the Craig's List in their area I would be surprised if they couldn't find a free horse...


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Stir-fry horse and noodles. BTW horse milk is great.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

MikeDT said:


> Stir-fry horse and noodles. BTW horse milk is great.


Does one actually milk it or just suck it right out of the thing??


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Does one actually milk it or just suck it right out of the thing??


I think sucking on horses would be considered a tad eccentric in most countries...


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Does one actually milk it or just suck it right out of the thing??


They hand milk them.







Milk is normally supplied for medicinal purposes, quite expensive as well.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Bjorn said:


> I think sucking on horses would be considered a tad eccentric in most countries...


Hey, it ain't like they got a bag with hoses on them like a cow ot a goat you know!!


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