# Bills khakis - your opinion please



## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

I'm getting my first pair of Bills today. I will wear them almost exclusively to work, with a blazer, OCBD, and tie. Your answers/opinions to the following questions:

1) Cuffs or plain?
2) Professionally launder or wash-at-home?

Thanks
Francis


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## Blackford Oakes (Sep 7, 2010)

I go with cuffs and wash/iron at home. Very happy.


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

Blackford Oakes said:


> I go with cuffs and wash/iron at home. Very happy.


For work, second this.

For casual, no cuffs and don't iron.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Will your new Bill's be pleated or plain front?


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Blackford Oakes said:


> I go with cuffs and wash/iron at home. Very happy.


Yes, indeed, assuming you know, or can learn, how to press pants. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a crisp, sharp appearance. Some who aim at the unpressed, artfully rumpled look miss the target and hit sloppy instead.


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## jph712 (Mar 22, 2007)

Cuffed, and I wash and press. I need to get them taken in, which fortunately I can, and then rewash and press.


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

I would also recommend that if you are receiving them unfinished it would be a good idea to wash and dry them a couple of times before you have the cuffs done in order to minimize any future shrinkage.


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## statboy (Sep 1, 2010)

Cuffs. Home. Should be against the law to take cotton products to the dry cleaner.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

sbdivemaster said:


> Will your new Bill's be pleated or plain front?


M1Ps.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Although some would disagree, there's no hard rule about cuffs and pleats, but I think cuffs look better on pleated pants, and as others have mentioned, more "business".

Dr. D has some good advice about washing and drying before the alterations.

Wash and dry at home. As for the crease: IMHO, khakis are inherently a more casual pant, and a sharp crease seems a bit excessive. If you want a bit more finished appearance than the wash and dry au naturel, may I suggest ironing the pants flat from the front and the back, then fold the pants from the leg like you would dress pants, but just "press" in the crease with your hands. Hang them over a hanger like this and you'll have a relaxed type crease. (I hope this makes sense.)


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## MKC (Sep 10, 2010)

Cuffs (I'm partial to a healthy 1 3/4"). Wash at home. Air dry on a drying rack. If you put them on the rack neatly, they will dry with a soft crease -- not too much, not too little. No ironing needed.


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## Semper Jeep (Oct 11, 2011)

I recently got my first two pair of Bill's, both in the M3 model with no pleats and no cuffs. Even though I've only worn each pair once and absolutely love them. I will also be washing mine at home as I don't have an issue with the ironing board. I'm actually going to try to make it back to the store I got them at and get a couple more pair if they are still on sale. I think I can now justify getting rid of every other pair of khaki's that I own as I don't think anything else I have matches these in terms of fit or quality.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

Semper Jeep said:


> I recently got my first two pair of Bill's, both in the M3 model with no pleats and no cuffs. Even though I've only worn each pair once and absolutely love them. I will also be washing mine at home as I don't have an issue with the ironing board. I'm actually going to try to make it back to the store I got them at and get a couple more pair if they are still on sale. I think I can now justify getting rid of every other pair of khaki's that I own as I don't think anything else I have matches these in terms of fit or quality.


I am also thinking of getting my first pair of Bills since I hear so much about them. May I ask how much you got them for? I am unsure what a "good" sale price is for these pants, as I am definitely not going to get them full price.


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

inq89 said:


> I am also thinking of getting my first pair of Bills since I hear so much about them. May I ask how you got them for? I am unsure what a "good" sale price is for these pants, as I am definitely not going to get them full price.


If you look at the many Bills Khakis threads on this forum, you'll read about Sierra Trading Post, which is always discounted and often has very good sales. You can find seconds on eBay that may have very minor blemishes, and since khakis are inherently funky these flaws don't matter. And sometimes they show up in the Trad Exchange at ridiculously low prices.
As to cuff/no-cuff, consider their twin origins. Original origin is military uniform and pretty much always not cuffed. Secondary origin is prep/Ivy League, ergo trad, and most often cuffed. So pick your identity, warrior or scholar. Or consider the weight. The heavy fabric Bills look fine uncuffed. The summer weight models could use cuffs to let the pant legs hang right.


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## Semper Jeep (Oct 11, 2011)

inq89 said:


> I am also thinking of getting my first pair of Bills since I hear so much about them. May I ask how much you got them for? I am unsure what a "good" sale price is for these pants, as I am definitely not going to get them full price.


I got two pair, both at 25% off the regular price. I think one was regularly $125 and the other was $145. It's more than I've ever paid for a pair of chinos (except a pair of RRL Officer Chinos but those things are an entirely different level of awesome).

I know if I were to have looked around online I probably could have gotten a slightly better price on them online somewhere, but for pants I've never worn before, I like to be able to to try them on. And I'm glad I did because it helped me figure out more quickly if I wanted the M1, M2, or M3. Also, the store I bought them at locally provides free tailoring and besides, I like to purchase locally when possible.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

I have always preferred cuffs on all trousers. I sometimes hear these silly "rules" about no cuffs on flat front pants, no cuffs on casual pants, etc. 

If you are wearing these to work, it would be preferable either to iron or to have them professionally pressed; I have had many pairs of Bills and they are not sufficiently neat looking coming out of the dryer to wear to work (unless you work in a very casual environment indeed).

As for home vs. professional, surely that is a matter of your own preference, time availability, and resources. If you have the time, expertise, and patience, by all means do it yourself; I'm too busy.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

efdll said:


> If you look at the many Bills Khakis threads on this forum, you'll read about Sierra Trading Post, which is always discounted and often has very good sales. You can find seconds on eBay that may have very minor blemishes, and since khakis are inherently funky these flaws don't matter. And sometimes they show up in the Trad Exchange at ridiculously low prices.
> As to cuff/no-cuff, consider their twin origins. Original origin is military uniform and pretty much always not cuffed. Secondary origin is prep/Ivy League, ergo trad, and most often cuffed. So pick your identity, warrior or scholar. Or consider the weight. The heavy fabric Bills look fine uncuffed. The summer weight models could use cuffs to let the pant legs hang right.


Indeed I have looked at STP but they unfortunately never have my waist size in the original twill in khaki that I wish to get. But I will definitly hit up eBay and Exchange and try my luck, thanks.

Personally I like cuffing my flat front dress slacks only but may keep a pair of Bills cuffed for my trad tendencies.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

MKC said:


> Cuffs (I'm partial to a healthy 1 3/4"). Wash at home. Air dry on a drying rack. If you put them on the rack neatly, they will dry with a soft crease -- not too much, not too little. No ironing needed.


ditto on the cuffs: Go big, or go home.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Semper Jeep said:


> I got two pair, both at 25% off the regular price. I think one was regularly $125 and the other was $145. It's more than I've ever paid for a pair of chinos (except a pair of RRL Officer Chinos but those things are an entirely different level of awesome).
> 
> I know if I were to have looked around online I probably could have gotten a slightly better price on them online somewhere, but for pants I've never worn before, I like to be able to to try them on. And I'm glad I did because it helped me figure out more quickly if I wanted the M1, M2, or M3. Also, the store I bought them at locally provides free tailoring and besides, I like to purchase locally when possible.


Good way to go. A local shop definitely earns their keep by stocking them for you to try on, plus throwing in the tailoring. And providing good cheer!

$125-plus seems a ton of money for khakis, but one pair I had for 15 years outlasted probably a dozen each lesser khakis and 501s, that were in the same rotation.


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## cglex (Oct 23, 2006)

Cuffs. I wash them, but I don't wear them to work as they are too wrinkled for a second day of wear. If I did wear them to work, I would have them cleaned. On the rare occasion I do wear khakis to work, I have a pair of kyber cloth pants that are much dressier than Bill's chinos. Still, the kyber cloth is only good for one day's wear before needing a pressing.

Bill's are expensive for what they are, but my numerous trials of lower priced alternatives have all been disapointments.


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## Lieutenant (May 17, 2007)

Semper Jeep said:


> I recently got my first two pair of Bill's, both in the M3 model with no pleats and no cuffs. Even though I've only worn each pair once and absolutely love them. I will also be washing mine at home as I don't have an issue with the ironing board. I'm actually going to try to make it back to the store I got them at and get a couple more pair if they are still on sale. I think I can now justify getting rid of every other pair of khaki's that I own as I don't think anything else I have matches these in terms of fit or quality.


Semper I did the same thing two weeks ago. Refused to entertain the thought of paying that much for casual pants....tried them on and was done. Replaced all my imposters with them)


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Today I got my new Cramertons from Cladmen. I immediately put them on, rolled the cuffs up and wore them all afternoon with the tag still on, like Minnie Pearl.

I'll wash and wear them a few times like this, then get them cuffed and wear them to death.

About 5 pair (and $200 worth) of lesser khakis will now be culled from my closet.

To think 20 year olds with no money manage to scrape together $150+ to blow on jeans, when they could have these... tsk, tsk.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

Original poster here. I did not get what I thought I was getting, but that's my own fault.

I bought a pair on ebay from the person who picks Bills from the outlet store in Reading. She shipped the pants quickly, and the auction listing was exactly as described. I highly recommend her. ebay user name mizbb.

Almost all of her listings are unhemmed pants. I didn't read carefully, but these are hemmed. She explicitly stated that in the listing. I just didn't read it right.

For irregulars, these look really good. I couldn't find anything wrong with them.

I'm a 44/34, and these are 44/30.5 M1Ps.

However, I did experience a moment of clarity.

These came about two weeks ago. I love the full fit of the M1P model, I'm, shall we say, full figured, along with being tall. I have tried almost every khaki out there under $50. The few that fit me in the waist don't have a long enough rise. The only cheapies that I found that did work were JAB. However, their 44 waists now seem to stop at 32. I guess I didn't buy enough.

These fit like a glove. Wonderful.

Then last weekend, my wife and I went to the outlet stores at Rehoboth Beach and Queenstown MD. I estimate I tried on six brands of khakis. None fit. As I took off the last pairs at LL Bean at Queenstown, I thought, "now I know why guys pay $125 a pair. They don't have to try on 50 pairs to know they'll find one that fits."

I haven't tried Charleston/Berle, or Donnelly. I tried Orvis at Rehoboth - as LBJ said, "like riding a wire fence." 

If anybody wants to unload some M1Ps in 44/34 or longer, or take these 44/30.5s off my hands, lemme know.


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

Cuffs, wash at home or dry clean if you have time and really need a good crease. I dry clean mine and they are good for 2 days at work, then 3 or 4 more of casual wear. For some reason I have found that the pleated models shrink more than the plain front front ones so that's all I buy now.


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## ArtVandalay (Apr 29, 2010)

What's the fit of the waist like on Bills? True to size? I'm just so used to LE's 3-inch vanity sizing...


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

ArtVandalay said:


> What's the fit of the waist like on Bills? True to size? I'm just so used to LE's 3-inch vanity sizing...


After reading this post, I measured the waist of two pairs of LE's and three pairs of Bills M3's. All were ordered with a 31" waist according to my experience that both brands will shrink about 1/2". Both LE's are within 1/8" of 30 1/2". All of the Bills are so close to 30 1/2" that any difference can be attributed to the imprecision of measuring fabric with a cloth tape measure. In practical effect, there is no difference among brands. Of course, each pair has been worn and laundered a different number of times.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

I love the Bills M2's. They are probably the most comfortable khakis I have ever worn. They are heavy, but soft and they actually stay in place without falling down.

The original twill can easily be washed at home, unless you need a crease and are unskilled in that department. The fabric is so heavy it basically doesn't wrinkle.

I may get a pair in poplin to wear to the office in the summer. I will probably send those to the cleaner.

My fiancee makes fun of me for wearing pants with such a high waist (they hit about an inch about my naval) so I've ordered a pair of M3's just to try. We'll see how they go.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Finding out Bills M2P was one of the best things I have learnt on this forum and for arguments sake no cuffs and iron.


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## Semper Jeep (Oct 11, 2011)

On the previous page I mentioned I had recently gotten two pair of Bill's...

Well, yesterday after work I squatted down in my kitchen to greet my daughter and put about a 7" split in the seam in the seat. :mad2: Maybe my praise for Bill's was a bit premature?

After I got them off and took a look, I was relieved to see that it was just in the stitching and not the actual fabric but I still don't think that should be happening in a pair of pants that I've had for just over a month! I'm sure the local store I bought them at will fix them at no charge but it will definitely make me think twice about adding more Bill's to my wardrobe.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

I don't see them on the site any longer, but Orivs used to offer a WWII chino very similar to Bill's for just a few dollars more (I think $145). I've had a couple pairs of Bill's, but these Orvis pants are, to me, the hardest wearing khakis - heavy canvas excluded - that I have owned. I bought them through a buddy who works at Orvis for 65% off, but on Saturday, I was in a local thrift shop and they had about 30 pairs for $25 each, all new in package, so I bought another pair in my size and a pair in my "skinny size". Made in USA, no less.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Semper Jeep said:


> On the previous page I mentioned I had recently gotten two pair of Bill's...
> 
> Well, yesterday after work I squatted down in my kitchen to greet my daughter and put about a 7" split in the seam in the seat. :mad2: Maybe my praise for Bill's was a bit premature?
> 
> After I got them off and took a look, I was relieved to see that it was just in the stitching and not the actual fabric but I still don't think that should be happening in a pair of pants that I've had for just over a month! I'm sure the local store I bought them at will fix them at no charge but it will definitely make me think twice about adding more Bill's to my wardrobe.


While its not impossible that your pants were somehow defective, the usual cause of rear seam blowout is simply that the pants are too tight across the seat. You mentioned earler that you have the M3, which is Bill's slimmest cut. It might be worth checking out the M2 instead, which is a bit roomier through the hips and thigh.


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## Semper Jeep (Oct 11, 2011)

Topsider said:


> While its not impossible that your pants were somehow defective, the usual cause of rear seam blowout is simply that the pants are too tight across the seat. You mentioned earler that you have the M3, which is Bill's slimmest cut. It might be worth checking out the M2 instead, which is a bit roomier through the hips and thigh.


I was wrong about them being the M3... they were actually the M2s. I've also lost probably 5 or 7 pounds since I picked them up about a month ago. And when I put them on in the morning I vaguely remember seeing a loose thread somewhere in the general crotch vicinity where it sounded like the rip started (and then traveled up backwards). I do however have relatively large quadriceps which probably add to the strain on my trousers. In the end, I still chalk this one up to quality control.

I did have the pants let out in the waist slightly when I bought them, I don't know how far down the tailor reworks the seam... maybe the problem lies somewhere in there? Oh well.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Semper Jeep said:


> II vaguely remember seeing a loose thread somewhere in the general crotch vicinity where it sounded like the rip started (and then traveled up backwards). I do however have relatively large quadriceps which probably add to the strain on my trousers. In the end, I still chalk this one up to quality control.
> 
> I did have the pants let out in the waist slightly when I bought them, I don't know how far down the tailor reworks the seam... maybe the problem lies somewhere in there? Oh well.


Loose thread? Alterations? I'm not sure I'd hold Bills responsible for the quality control at this point...


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

Semper Jeep said:


> On the previous page I mentioned I had recently gotten two pair of Bill's...
> 
> Well, yesterday after work I squatted down in my kitchen to greet my daughter and put about a 7" split in the seam in the seat. :mad2: Maybe my praise for Bill's was a bit premature?
> 
> After I got them off and took a look, I was relieved to see that it was just in the stitching and not the actual fabric but I still don't think that should be happening in a pair of pants that I've had for just over a month! I'm sure the local store I bought them at will fix them at no charge but it will definitely make me think twice about adding more Bill's to my wardrobe.


Off topic, but this once happened to a colleague of mine at work. He squatted down and literally ripped one in front of God and country. His nickname Breezely stuck with him for the rest of his career at that company.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

L-feld said:


> My fiancee makes fun of me for wearing pants with such a high waist.


There's still time to get out of it, y'know.


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