# Jeans and sports coats - yea or nay?



## Argon (May 28, 2012)

I used to think that jeans with a sports coat was an OK look, but, as I read and think more deeply about matters sartorial, I'm increasingly coming to view this ensemble as one a middle-aged man might wear who is misguidedly attempting to appear a bit edgy and cool.

What do others think?


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm on the fence. Done badly, it's awful. Done well, it's not really as good as gray flannels would be. If I could, I'd get myself two or three pairs of gray flannel trousers and alternate them with moleskins and cords in random shades of navy, tan, and brown for cool weather and be done with it -- save jeans for sweaters.

Until that time, jeans it is, at least some of the time. Never with worsted, only with hairy tweed.


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## stephenkarl (Dec 21, 2011)

Personally, I think it can be pulled off. Of course, it depends on the level of formality. A jacket with torn, faded jeans - no. But a more relaxed (less structure, possibly patch pockets) jacket with a pair of dark denim, absolutely.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Argon said:


> I used to think that jeans with a sports coat was an OK look, but, as I read and think more deeply about matters sartorial, I'm increasingly coming to view this ensemble as one a middle-aged man might wear who is misguidedly attempting to appear a bit edgy and cool.
> 
> What do others think?


That's a valid interpretation.

Also it is a bone idle, unimaginative, faintly desperate and sloppy excuse for being well presented. With a possible minor exception, being coupled with a rough tweed in ultra casual situations.

I'd love to hear an attempt at a spirited defence of the abominable jeans/jacket combo. If anyone has one, that is.

.
.
.
.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

_If_ the jeans are new-ish, undamaged and dark blue and _if_ the sport coat is dead casual (tweed with patch pockets or soft and well-worn corduroy) and you're putting a very casual shirt (blue chambray comes to mind) or a ribbed turtleneck under it, and _if_ your shoes are something along the lines of suede wingtips or moccasins I like it. But if the coat is the least bit more formal than those above or you make the mistake of wearing an OCBD or (God forbid) a necktie . . . go stand in the corner; you're benched for recess and lunch, too.

"Cool and edgy" has nothing to do with it, whatever. Warm, relaxed and comfortable does. It's a good look for beer and pizza with friends, for walking the dog on a foggy evening or for enjoying a glass of good red wine or well-aged bourbon in front of the fireplace. Note: it does _not_ go with fine brandy or single-malt.

Be told.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I can't say that there are many styles that I like without exception. Anything can be poorly executed as a glance 'round any shopping center or city street will tell you.

But...

I have essentially based my entire wardrobe around the jacket & jeans combo. That's not to say I always wear jeans, but I've held the same type of job since I graduated college and that job has certain demands it places on my attire. I developed an early appreciation for just how well a jacket & jeans can work. 

I sell AV & home automation stuff and any given day can see me in my showroom, on open job sites, and finished homes. Trying to dress for each of those occasions is a losing battle and trying to make dress slacks work on a job site cost me thousands of dollars early on. But I didn't want to adopt the standard industrial button-down shirt with a logo and khakis or stone-washed jeans, so over the years the vast majority of my wardrobe came to consist of many pair of nice slim jeans, many pair of nice slim khakis, soft shouldered sport coats and blazers, and the usual variety of dress shirts. This combo has seen me through the last near-decade of my career and I'm almost always the best dressed guy in most situations. 

So I suppose what I'm saying is that if your career or lifestyle place some rugged demands on your attire it's better to embrace the "jacket & jeans" look than relent and wear corporate logo-gear or worse.


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## rsgordon (Dec 6, 2012)

My personal opinion?

Done badly look awful

Done well looks like a guy who doesn't own khakis, the swiss army knife of pants


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Jeans are the khakis/chinos of the West.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

I hate it! How about that?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

rsgordon said:


> khakis, the swiss army knife of pants


+1 memorable turn of phrase. Well done.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Count me in the "No!" camp. It's an unholy marriage of clothing functions and levels of formality that just don't go together. I'm not so naive as to assert that jeans are "work clothes" and nothing more. They have developed their own sartorial implications that are in direct contrast with tailored clothing. Let's face it, this is the endgame:



You can try and downplay the contrast by bringing the formality of the jacket way down (tweed, corduroy etc.) and that of the jeans way up (raw, simple stitching, fabric sheen etc.) but, at their core, the elements are still just as discordant. 

Trip, as far as career demands on clothing, I often have to go from a client meeting to a construction site walk and back to the office all in one day. I'm talking mud, exposed steel rebar, concrete dust and worse. I've never needed to wear a pair of jeans. There are plenty of options for hard wearing trousers (Rhinohide, Firehose, Tin Cloth) that aren't a five-pocket design. The idea that one must accept the five-pocket as the only rugged type of pant is false and it's not a good enough argument, IMO, to resort to the sport coat and jeans look.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Trip pulls jeans + jacket off better than pretty much anybody. Right now, most of the time, when I need to wear trousers I can work in, a jacket would be inconvenient. When I'm in the same boat as him, I follow his logic. The other time I'll combine jeans and jacket is with a tweed jacket -- treating the tweed (or corduroy, cord is great for this) as a sweater, pulled on over shirt and jeans in a very casual look. Pockets. They're important. Don't have pockets in a sweater.

I'd wear an OCBD with jeans and a jacket, no problem. When I'm pulling on the jacket in a casual way, I'll add a tie if it occurs to me that I'd like to wear a tie once I've got the jeans on. On the other hand, if I decide I'm going to wear a tie before I get dressed, then I'll avoid jeans.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

I wonder if I'll live to see the day when the die hard "sport coat + jeans" crowd is holding the sartorial line against the "sport coat + sweatpants" majority 



Seriously though, what's the difference?


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## sp999 (Dec 9, 2012)

Considering many people on this forum do not like jeans, it is not surprising that they would not like the jeans/sport coats combo. I believe each person should dress according to his age. Where I live only old people wear sports coats with trousers. I wear my sports coats with jeans. The key is the jeans should not be faded, baggy, ripped or low rise. In others words the jeans should be tailored similarly to trousers. This way I am able to maintain the same silhouette as if I wore trousers.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

I think it's fine as long as the jacket is soft of shoulder and fabric, like a Keydge or a well-worn tweed. Needless to say, the jeans need to be halfway decent, on the trimmer side, pulled up and in one piece. It isn't something I wear myself, but I do often wear the same above set up with five-pocket cords or moleskin.


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## Barcelona (Aug 13, 2009)

Shaver said:


> With a possible minor exception, being coupled with a rough tweed in ultra casual situations.


This is where I think it would work, a Harris Tweed jacket with non-distressed denim. Or possibly a corduroy or linen jacket. But I think the two key points are the jacket must be casual and the denim must be dark and non-distressed.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Harline42, your comment that jeans have developed their own sartorial implications is the key. I'm no cowboy, but jeans are fit for my purposes. They handle my routine better than the rougher stiffer materials you mentioned. They also look a great deal more refined, which is the whole point to combining a rugged trouser with a jacket in the first place. Wearing a sport coat with tin cloth trousers would look ridiculous.


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## Spin Evans (Feb 2, 2013)

I sometimes wear jeans and a sport coat. Not because I like the look, but because my girlfriend wears denim pretty darn often, particularly in the winter (Heck, almost _all_ young women love their jeans). Frankly, I think it's more incongruent to trot around in flannels and a sport coat on a date when your significant other is wearing denim.

And no, I'm not going to ask her to retire those jeans whenever we go out. Now, if we get married, that may change....


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm in the Trip camp.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

^ Ditto.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Trip, I think "a great deal more refined" is a bit of a stretch. Everyone arguing for the acceptance of the sc+jeans look qualifies the pairing with the need for the jeans to be as trouser-like as possible (decent rise, no fading, slim, non-distressed, "tailored similarly to trousers" etc.). Why not just wear actual trousers, then? Why does it have to be a pair of pants with patch pockets, bar tacks, rivets, double-track flat-felled seams, chain stitching etc.? 

My theory is that the mismatch is not out of necessity but out of "rebellion," for lack of a better word. Flouting the established rules of dress has always been cool and lends the wearer and air of relaxed non-chalance and youthfulness. In all of the sitcoms we watched growing up, the "cool" adults wore sport coats and jeans and the "square" ones wore khakis. Given that we live in a youth-obsessed society where the adults try to look like the kids and not the other way around, it doesn't surprise me to read comments like "only old people wear sport coats with trousers." I get that it's the norm and I get that it's "age-appropriate," for better or worse. However, in my most humble opinion, I think that, much like post-modern architecture, the look is only relevant within the context of what it's rebelling against. On it's own, it remains an incongruous pairing.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> Count me in the "No!" camp. It's an unholy marriage of clothing functions and levels of formality that just don't go together. I'm not so naive as to assert that jeans are "work clothes" and nothing more. They have developed their own sartorial implications that are in direct contrast with tailored clothing. Let's face it, this is the endgame:
> 
> You can try and downplay the contrast by bringing the formality of the jacket way down (tweed, corduroy etc.) and that of the jeans way up (raw, simple stitching, fabric sheen etc.) but, at their core, the elements are still just as discordant.
> 
> Trip, as far as career demands on clothing, I often have to go from a client meeting to a construction site walk and back to the office all in one day. I'm talking mud, exposed steel rebar, concrete dust and worse. I've never needed to wear a pair of jeans. There are plenty of options for hard wearing trousers (Rhinohide, Firehose, Tin Cloth) that aren't a five-pocket design. The idea that one must accept the five-pocket as the only rugged type of pant is false and it's not a good enough argument, IMO, to resort to the sport coat and jeans look.


That particular pairing of skinny jeans and undersized sportcoat is an abomination, a disgrace, an affront to the eye. Bleagh! Hip, perhaps, but ghastly. Just for that, I may put on my Wranglers and my old corduroy coat and go for a walk this evening. Unfortunately, the dog won't want to go. She disapproves of walks after dark. Possibly the existence of coyotes in the neighborhood has something to do with it . . . or her advanced age.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

I dislike it completely. It feels like a half assed attempt at something... If you want to wear an outfit with a jacket then do it the proper way. It just always looks so badly put together and misguided when I see it usually.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> Trip, I think "a great deal more refined" is a bit of a stretch. Everyone arguing for the acceptance of the sc+jeans look qualifies the pairing with the need for the jeans to be as trouser-like as possible (decent rise, no fading, slim, non-distressed, "tailored similarly to trousers" etc.). Why not just wear actual trousers, then? Why does it have to be a pair of pants with patch pockets, bar tacks, rivets, double-track flat-felled seams, chain stitching etc.?
> 
> My theory is that the mismatch is not out of necessity but out of "rebellion," for lack of a better word. Flouting the established rules of dress has always been cool and lends the wearer and air of relaxed non-chalance and youthfulness. In all of the sitcoms we watched growing up, the "cool" adults wore sport coats and jeans and the "square" ones wore khakis. Given that we live in a youth-obsessed society where the adults try to look like the kids and not the other way around, it doesn't surprise me to read comments like "only old people wear sport coats with trousers." I get that it's the norm and I get that it's "age-appropriate," for better or worse. However, in my most humble opinion, I think that, much like post-modern architecture, the look is only relevant within the context of what it's rebelling against. On it's own, it remains an incongruous pairing.


I won't touch the armchair psychology. I can only imagine the inner torment of some people's fashion choices. I can only speak for myself and to your points:

*Why not just wear actual trousers? *Not nearly robust enough. When I'm only going to be in my showroom I generally wear a suit. But when I'm out and about I need something that can take the wear and tear and absorb it. Even khakis, which have come to supplant jeans more often than not, don't look as good when worn as jeans do. Something about their character lends itself to a little wear and tear - or dare I say PATINA!

*Why does it have to be a pair of pants with patch pockets, bar tacks, rivets, double-track flat-felled seams, chain stitching etc.?* It doesn't. Those just happen to be the characteristics of jeans and each feature can trace its roots back to some innovation in durability or economy of manufacturing. If you take those away then you move away from a durable pant toward a more refined garment better suited to the boulevards than the basements.

As I've said, I'm defending them here specifically with jackets and specifically for the hybrid workday I'm presented with in my career. If I spent most of my time on job sites I'm sure I'd adopt some tin-cloth trouser, sport shirt, fleece vest thing or something equivalent. Jeans are not only the best suited in terms of fit & finish and fabric, but because they've essentially been accepted into the canon of luxury clothing long ago they have currency as refined sportswear that a pair of Filsons or Carhartts can't claim.


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

Best line of the day;

_I can only imagine the inner torment of some people's fashion choices_


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

If the jeans are not distressed nor overly "noticeable" then it's a good look _provided_ you already look good in jeans - which gets more difficult as you get older. Fortunately, according to my female friends, I do.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

My wife thinks I do . . . :icon_smile_wink:


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## Zakk (Aug 4, 2011)

For younger men who wear it right, I think it can look great. Dark jeans, a white dress shirt, and a navy blazer is one of my favorite casual looks. It doesn't look as nice on older men, but older men have the benefits of looking good in other clothes (like bowties) :smile:


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

For it to work it needs to be a casual sports coat like a rough tweed. A suit jacket or even a navy blazer looks mismatched with jeans. And the shirt needs to match in formality as well, something like an oxford. None of the business on top/casual on the bottom. A tie can work if it's a casual one. The best example is Robert Redford in _Three Days of the Condor_.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

I've been wearing the combination of tweed jacket, Levi's 501's, casual shirt, "v" neck pullover when appropriate, and brogues, or boots (suede or leather chukks in style), since the early 1980's. I'm happy with the look and I see no reason to change.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I think jeans and a sport coat is a nice style but very trendy.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

It's a combination that can work. What Oldsarge has already said goes for me.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Trip English said:


> I won't touch the armchair psychology. I can only imagine the inner torment of some people's fashion choices. I can only speak for myself and to your points:
> 
> *Why not just wear actual trousers? *Not nearly robust enough. When I'm only going to be in my showroom I generally wear a suit. But when I'm out and about I need something that can take the wear and tear and absorb it. Even khakis, which have come to supplant jeans more often than not, don't look as good when worn as jeans do. Something about their character lends itself to a little wear and tear - or dare I say PATINA!
> 
> ...


Aww Trip, there are plenty of clothes equally as robust as denim. In fact in many specific situations there are materials even better suited to trousers than denim. My ultimate issue with jeans is (putting aside the dreadful ubiquity) that the material has such an unappealing drape.

I will echo Y/R's comment that you do pull the look off rather well though.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
...and he (Trip English) presents a very persuasive, fact based argument in support of such combinations in certain work based environments, that would not be as well served by wearing other utility/fatigue clothing combinations. The sport jacket/jeans combination allows the wearer to easily transition within the competing role(s) of proprietor, sales associate, project planner, installation tech, etc, without having to slip into a phone booth repeatedly to don a super-hero outfit. He/she might simply remove or slip on the jacket to change roles. Other utility clothing options do not offer that degree of flexibility!


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Shaver said:


> My ultimate issue with jeans is (putting aside the dreadful ubiquity) that the material has such an unappealing drape.


When worn properly they don't drape. That's the key.


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## Mr Humphries (Apr 5, 2013)




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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> Trip, I think "a great deal more refined" is a bit of a stretch. Everyone arguing for the acceptance of the sc+jeans look qualifies the pairing with the need for the jeans to be as trouser-like as possible (decent rise, no fading, slim, non-distressed, "tailored similarly to trousers" etc.). Why not just wear actual trousers, then? * Why does it have to be a pair of pants with patch pockets, bar tacks, rivets, double-track flat-felled seams, chain stitching etc*.? .


Nobody has said it HAS to be. Many have said it CAN be. And we're right. :tongue2:


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Clearly, I'm outnumbered (and RogerP has stated that you guys are right. Can't argue against that). As I'm gearing up for a nice Saturday out with the family, I'll take this opportunity to bow out gracefully. If anyone cares to carry the torch, best of luck! :smile:


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME, GADGET! NEXT TIME!!!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Trip English said:


> When worn properly they don't drape. That's the key.


It may be the key but it is also what is unappealing about them (to me).

Am I dreaming or is this a traditional menswear forum who's members despise cravats and love jeans......:tongue2:


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I like denim cravats.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Not necessarily*

From my standpoint it is not necessary to


Shaver said:


> despise cravats and love jeans......:tongue2:


 Actually, I am quite enthusiastiac, if not uncompromising, about the standards for traditional menswear, and the aesthetic fulfillment associated with proper dress. I am also enthusiastic about jeans and jackets, perhaps because, as Sarge writes, jeans are the chinos of the West.

Since returning last fall from Vienna with my Knieze Stresseman I have several times worn the jacket with black, Levi's 501's, somewhat faded by washing, and black tee shirts or closely fitting black sweaters. For an art opening reception I wore black Cleverley button boots. I mention this, to perhaps get a rise out of some, but more to illustrate the possibilities of mixing the incommensurable.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I fail to see any reason why a gentleman should hew to a single mode of dressing. Context is everything. When on business, wear a business suit. When at Ascot, wear a morning coat or a Stroller. When dining out in Hollywood, a 'California tuxedo' is appropriate and when out walking the dog along the beach I see nothing wrong with a corduroy coat and jeans. A walking out hat is good then, too.

By all means one should maintain standards but I don't think that means being in anyway rigid. But then, I'm from California so take that into consideration . . . :icon_smile_big:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Trip English said:


> I like denim cravats.


How about denim short shorts? :icon_smile_wink:


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Shaver said:


> How about denim short shorts? :icon_smile_wink:


They're called cutoffs and I don't know a thing about them.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Trip English said:


> They're called cutoffs and I don't know a thing about them.


I'd pay $5 to see that as your next Trad WAYWT photo submission. :icon_smile:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Shaver said:


> How about denim short shorts? :icon_smile_wink:


Hmmm . . . sorry, can't come up with any context where those are appropriate, thank God!


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## sp999 (Dec 9, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> Trip, I think "a great deal more refined" is a bit of a stretch. Everyone arguing for the acceptance of the sc+jeans look qualifies the pairing with the need for the jeans to be as trouser-like as possible (decent rise, no fading, slim, non-distressed, "tailored similarly to trousers" etc.). Why not just wear actual trousers, then? Why does it have to be a pair of pants with patch pockets, bar tacks, rivets, double-track flat-felled seams, chain stitching etc.?
> 
> My theory is that the mismatch is not out of necessity but out of "rebellion," for lack of a better word. Flouting the established rules of dress has always been cool and lends the wearer and air of relaxed non-chalance and youthfulness. In all of the sitcoms we watched growing up, the "cool" adults wore sport coats and jeans and the "square" ones wore khakis. Given that we live in a youth-obsessed society where the adults try to look like the kids and not the other way around, it doesn't surprise me to read comments like "only old people wear sport coats with trousers." I get that it's the norm and I get that it's "age-appropriate," for better or worse. However, in my most humble opinion, I think that, much like post-modern architecture, the look is only relevant within the context of what it's rebelling against. On it's own, it remains an incongruous pairing.


For me personally, wearing a sports coat with trousers give me a feeling of being overdressed for the places I go to. A sports coat with jeans give me more of a sharp, casual look.


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## Olifter (Jun 9, 2012)

I don't have a problem with jeans and a sport coat, on some I think it looks fine. I can't do it, in fact, I have not owned a pair of jeans since college. In general, I think older men in jeans seem as though they are trying to look younger.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Nah, some of us old guys were raised in jeans and haven't been given any good reason to stop wearing them. You young sprouts are the ones who need to come up with excuses for wearing them.


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## Olifter (Jun 9, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> Nah, some of us old guys were raised in jeans and haven't been given any good reason to stop wearing them. You young sprouts are the ones who need to come up with excuses for wearing them.


Maybe. I'm not that young, just large legs from heavy weightlifting. I'd look ridiculous, like a big guy wearing skinny jeans. Thank God for pleats, and for khakis.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Deep knee bends will do that. Once upon a time I could lay on my back and lift half a ton. Not, unfortunately, any more.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

Wearing jeans with a tweed or cord jacket goes back to at least the 1950's. This isn't some sort of new trend.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Responding to the OP only, but - in England at least - jeans and odd jacket are the mark of a bounder. Utterly dreadful look: the examples I have seen tend to fall into two categories. The 'wannabe middle-aged playboy' (usually a guy with a slight beer belly who fancies himself, in poorly fitting and unflattering kit); or a trendy, young urban vibe. Both awful for different reasons. 

I've seen a few "huntin' shootin' fishin'" types wearing jeans and tweed jackets. But I always think there is a better option - moleskin, corduroy, etc. Both work well when slightly dogeared, an advantage often claimed for jeans.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Fine for corduroy and tweed jackets, but not for most worsted wool. Navy blazers depends on degree of construction and age of wearer.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Fraser Tartan said:


> Wearing jeans with a tweed or cord jacket goes back to at least the 1950's. This isn't some sort of new trend.


So what? That doesn't make it any more acceptable or desirable.


Balfour said:


> Responding to the OP only, but - in England at least - jeans and odd jacket are the mark of a bounder. Utterly dreadful look: the examples I have seen tend to fall into two categories. The 'wannabe middle-aged playboy'...or a trendy, young urban vibe. Both awful for different reasons. I've seen a few "huntin shootin' fishin'" types wearing jeans and tweed jackets. But I always think there is a better option - moleskin, corduroy, etc. Both work well when slightly dogeared, an advantage often claimed for jeans.


Emphatically agree!


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Mike Petrik said:


> Fine for corduroy and tweed jackets, but not for most worsted wool. Navy blazers depends on degree of construction and age of wearer.


Yep. I've seen jeans paired reasonably well with linen jackets as well, though I generally prefer khakis here.


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## Mr Humphries (Apr 5, 2013)

Balfour said:


> Responding to the OP only, but - in England at least - jeans and odd jacket are the mark of a bounder. Utterly dreadful look: the examples I have seen tend to fall into two categories. The 'wannabe middle-aged playboy' (usually a guy with a slight beer belly who fancies himself, in poorly fitting and unflattering kit).


Pretty much any antique expert on daytime tv and one in particular.


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## IvanD (Jan 5, 2012)

I had to answer no to this one as I do not actually own a pair of jeans. :biggrin:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

It's hardly surprising that our UK members generally oppose the idea; jeans aren't something that has any depth of history in the UK. Here in California, where jeans are part and parcel of our settlement and ongoing history, they are simply a fact of life. I'm not talking about designer jeans or skinny jeans or deliberately abused jeans, I'm talking about the kind of denim, riveted trousers that correspond to chinos on the east coast and, I imagine, roadmenders' trousers in Britain. We don't wear them as a statement, because they're 'cool' or to look younger. For two hundred years we were raised in jeans, grew up in jeans, work and play in jeans because they're just a part of the local environment. They are a rough kind of clothing and if you wear a jacket over them it should be equally rough. That's why I prefer corduroy or tweed. If you're going to wear a blazer or some worsted cloth then the jeans have to be much softer and smoother and those aren't the kind I'm talking about.


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## IvanD (Jan 5, 2012)

Not the best look......


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## GamecockGrad (May 8, 2012)

I do it all the time. Take off the tie, leave on the oxford, throw on a good pair of jeans (AGs are my personal choice right now) with a pair of loafers and boots, and throw on a blazer (either Navy or pattern.) 

It's my fall/winter go-to on Fridays or while traveling.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> It's hardly surprising that our UK members generally oppose the idea; jeans aren't something that has any depth of history in the UK. Here in California, where jeans are part and parcel of our settlement and ongoing history, they are simply a fact of life. I'm not talking about designer jeans or skinny jeans or deliberately abused jeans, I'm talking about the kind of denim, riveted trousers that correspond to chinos on the east coast and, I imagine, roadmenders' trousers in Britain. We don't wear them as a statement, because they're 'cool' or to look younger. For two hundred years we were raised in jeans, grew up in jeans, work and play in jeans because they're just a part of the local environment. They are a rough kind of clothing and if you wear a jacket over them it should be equally rough. That's why I prefer corduroy or tweed. If you're going to wear a blazer or some worsted cloth then the jeans have to be much softer and smoother and those aren't the kind I'm talking about.


This is an accurate explanation of the social and cultural context of jeans in the American West. They are, indeed, our chinos. However, unlike chinos, I do not think jeans belong with any sport coat, blazer or suit coat. To me, the look is unbalanced, contrived and juvenile.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

This doesn't.



Note how dark blue the jeans are. To me this is a requirement. Distressed jeans and a sportcoat of any kind fails.


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## Geezer (Apr 22, 2010)

Just because a "look" is often done badly, and often by idiots (see most photos in this thread), that does not mean it is a bad "look". 50+% of people who wear black tie do so badly, with awful shoes, pre-tied bows and so on, but that does not mean that black tie is a bad look.

Clean, slim, prefrably darker jeans with an open-necked shirt and a tweed or corduroy odd jacket or a linen one in summer (and appropriate shoes) is not bad, and has been a staple in the US since around the late 60s, and the UK perhaps a decade later. I have been wearing that (alongside rails of cords, molies, chinos and a couple of pairs of flannnels) since I was a student in the mid-80s: which may well mark me out as a cad or bounder, but hopefully not a middle-aged man trying to look hip (most of my middle-aged contemporaries would be more likely to accuse me of dressing like our grandfathers, most of the time). I doubt that 501s with an 18oz tweed hacking jacket and brown full brogues is what I would choose to lok younger than my 44 years. 

Odd jackets with "distressed" jeans, or any combination of jeans with what might be an orphaned suit jacket, and/or T-shirt, and/or untucked shirt, and/or tennis shoes of course is vile.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

Of course the jeans/sportcoat look can be done incorrectly... as can a three-piece suit, a tuxedo, or any apparel category. As mentioned before, jeans are an established American fashion staple we sort of have the floor here on exploring their options. If your culture doesn't support their wear, then by all means avoid them.

I'm in the camp that they can look good... if dark blue, straight legged, undistressed, and with no adornments... with a casual sportcoat that has comparable texture. I've worn them with heavy flannels, tweeds, cotton canvas, and various silk/wool blends. I would never wear a tie with them. My choice to favor jeans on a specific night is often settled by my lady - as a woman today can go out almost anywhere in a pair of high-fashion jeans. I've always had a rule that a man should never appear to out-dress his date.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Shaver said:


> How about denim short shorts? :icon_smile_wink:


well, not with sport coats, that wouldn't look good.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

IvanD said:


> I had to answer no to this one as I do not actually own a pair of jeans. :biggrin:


why is that Ivan?


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## Mute (Apr 3, 2005)

Even though I don't personally care for this look, many have pulled it off successfully and tastefully.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

unless the jeans are neatly pressed, plus put on some nice black loafers that's probably all you need to pull it off.


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## Spin Evans (Feb 2, 2013)

Someone had commented about Harrison Ford on Letterman earlier, but that post has mysteriously disappeared. Regardless, one of my favorite jean/sport coat looks is of Mr. Ford in The Fugitive. And he's doing it just the way it should be done: tweed jacket, muted knit tie, and a chambray shirt. And some dang ugly footwear, but we'll let that one slide since he is, ya know, on the run.










Actually, I think Tommy Lee Jones wore jeans and a jacket throughout the film as well. I'll have to check the next time the movie comes on (which is usually every ten hours).


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## abefroeman (Jun 4, 2012)

Let's talk about the conditions under which you would wear jeans with a sportcoat. 

For me:
- No worsted coats
- Match the fit: slim with slim, full cut with relaxed fit
- High contrast: denim with light, light with dark
- Bonus points for: corduroy, linen, tweed, patch pockets, elbow patches (if you dare)


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

As far as I'm concerned, it comes down to the silhouette and textures still needing to work together. I tend to think of denim as being the absolute _most_ "country"* cloth imaginable. If I wouldn't wear navy blue cords or moleskins with it, then there's no way I'd wear jeans with it. There are rigs that I _would_ pair with cords that I wouldn't do with jeans. Also, for whatever reason, I've found jeans that fit that I can afford, and I haven't yet gotten regular trousers to that point. I have considered -- as I upgrade my wardrobe -- taking measurements from my jeans, adding a half-inch here or there, and getting some trousers made (maybe from Luxire), but I'm not there yet.

I will point out that the egregiously bad examples of jeans with jackets in this thread would be pretty bad even with perfect gray flannels.

Spin Evans, you've got a pretty good example there, but the bar-none coolest jeans/jacket in film is in _Three Days of The Condor._ Redford loses points for the western shirt, but gains a lot of them back for being Robert Redford.

*Yes, that's an English concept, and there's no way in which jeans would be a good idea with a full-on English country-type look -- hacking jacket, tatersall, emblematic tie, and jeans wouldn't be my bag at all.


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## IvanD (Jan 5, 2012)

Howard said:


> why is that Ivan?


I am not against the look if, as others have said it is done tastefully.
As far as owning jeans goes, I am just more comfortable in chinos and therefore do not bother to buy or wear jeans.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I tend to think of denim as being the absolute _most_ "country"* cloth imaginable.
> 
> *Yes, that's an English concept, and there's no way in which jeans would be a good idea with a full-on English country-type look -- hacking jacket, tatersall, emblematic tie, and jeans wouldn't be my bag at all.


However, there is such a thing, or several (regional) things, that might qualify as 'American country'. There's the Southern Gentry, the Southwest Cattle Baron, the Wine Country Casual, the Adirondack Summer, etc. Jeans don't go with all of them but are an essential part of some. So, yes, you are absolutely right and frankly, the more urban one tries to make jeans/sportcoat combination, the less successful the attempt.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Oldsarge said:


> This doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Note how dark blue the jeans are. To me this is a requirement. Distressed jeans and a sportcoat of any kind fails.


If I saw this guy walking towards me, I'd cling to my wallet tightly...


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

As with all things, if you've the look and confidence to pull it off, more power to you...


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Exactly.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> *Yes, that's an English concept, and there's no way in which jeans would be a good idea with a full-on English country-type look -- hacking jacket, tatersall, emblematic tie, and jeans wouldn't be my bag at all.


That is, however, my look. In cold weather, if not cold enough for a coat, a heavy Harris Tweed, 3 button, in more moderate weather a lighter weight of tweed, perhaps my heavier Bladen. In temperate weather a lighter tweed, a lighter weight Bladen perhaps. Never a tie though, and sometimes a plain pink, light blue or white shirt rather than tattersall. 
My wife thinks that Chinoes are too smart for normal wear (even though she's bought me some, by Ralph Lauren and by Armani), even in summer, so summer attire is likely to be jeans, plain or striped shirt, usually blue/white, and linen jacket in a variety of beige colours, from very light to brown.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> If I saw this guy walking towards me, I'd cling to my wallet tightly...


Showing him right where it is? A questionable action.


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## Ματθαῖος (Jun 17, 2011)

For spending time in the city, it can be pretty practical.









Blast away, if you like.

Matthew


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

+1 for the tailoring of the blazer sleeves...don't see too many gents with the correct sleeve length.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> However, there is such a thing, or several (regional) things, that might qualify as 'American country'. There's the Southern Gentry, the Southwest Cattle Baron, the Wine Country Casual, the Adirondack Summer, etc. Jeans don't go with all of them but are an essential part of some. So, yes, you are absolutely right and frankly, the more urban one tries to make jeans/sportcoat combination, the less successful the attempt.


Gentlemen, Oldsarge has won the thread.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

:redface:


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Grayson said:


> Gentlemen, Oldsarge has won the thread.


I'm inclined to agree.


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## srmd22 (Jun 30, 2009)

Yes, definitely, at any age. Jeans, white button down, blue blazer or charcoal SC (a great look); jeans turtle or mock turtle neck, blazer. Penny loafers, +/- socks. Wing tip bluchers also a good option. A little more casual, but still cool: long sleeve collared polo.

Great look, I have seen middle age guys on the plane in this outfit, looks comfortable, casual and presentable, perfect travel outfit. Great for bus/cas if the office allows jeans (mine does not, although not everyone pay attention to that rule).

Great for casual about town during the day, going to the movies, or out with friends in a casual situation (which are most, these days). Acceptable at 99% of restaurants in the U.S., including very expensive restaurants (but not preferable at the higher end, imo, and I tend to throw on a suit when I go to an expensive restaurant for dinner-- but I still see tons of people out in the jeans/SC as well trousers/SC combo; the latter being preferable in lieu of a suit).


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## srmd22 (Jun 30, 2009)

IvanD said:


> Not the best look......


Diagree: that is a great look. (edit: except the sleeves are too long, of course.)



Oldsarge said:


> This doesn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Note how dark blue the jeans are. To me this is a requirement. Distressed jeans and a sportcoat of any kind fails.


This is a great look. You CAN wear lighter jeans with a SC, you just need a darker SC, as above.

@Snow Hill Pond: cling to your wallet? why? This guy looks like a mugger to you? Ridiculous.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

srmd22 said:


> Diagree: that is a great look. (edit: except the sleeves are too long, of course.)


Those are _really bad_ jeans. Also, the shirt collar is sloppy, it seems to have floral print cuffs, and what I can see of the jacket isn't so hot.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Fraser Tartan said:


> Wearing jeans with a tweed or cord jacket goes back to at least the 1950's. This isn't some sort of new trend.


"Everything in the past was better... except for this and this and this and that!"



Balfour said:


> Responding to the OP only, but - in England at least - jeans and odd jacket are the mark of a bounder. *Utterly dreadful look: the examples I have seen tend to fall into two categories. The 'wannabe middle-aged playboy' (usually a guy with a slight beer belly who fancies himself, in poorly fitting and unflattering kit); or a trendy, young urban vibe. Both awful for different reasons.
> *
> I've seen a few "huntin' shootin' fishin'" types wearing jeans and tweed jackets. But I always think there is a better option - moleskin, corduroy, etc. Both work well when slightly dogeared, an advantage often claimed for jeans.


You're funny, Balfour. Hardly anyone would accuse me of having a trendy, young urban vibe. 

In all seriousness though, everyone here seems to be talking about blue denim. What about corduroy, moleskin, or canvas jeans in neutral shades? Or denim in other colours besides shades of blue, at least? I'm looking at stocking up on some of those this year.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Jovan said:


> "Everything in the past was better... except for this and this and this and that!"
> 
> You're funny, Balfour. Hardly anyone would accuse me of having a trendy, young urban vibe.
> 
> In all seriousness though, everyone here seems to be talking about blue denim. What about corduroy, moleskin, or canvas jeans in neutral shades? Or denim in other colours besides shades of blue, at least? I'm looking at stocking up on some of those this year.


You trendy young urbanite!

It's not just denim jeans I'm against - I abhor the jeans cut generally. Five pockets or whatever it's called *grumble* That jeans cut drains all the class straight out of trousers.

Re American cultural heritage: when I was a little boy I dreamt feverishly of being a Regulator, riding with William Bonney. I'd wear denim trousers in that circumstance - I'd probably get to wear my cravats too. It's a win-win situation. :icon_smile:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Re American cultural heritage: when I was a little boy I dreamt feverishly of being a Regulator, riding with William Bonney. I'd wear denim trousers in that circumstance - I'd probably get to wear my cravats too. It's a win-win situation. :icon_smile:


Now that gave me a good chuckle. :thumbs-up:


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Shaver said:


> You trendy young urbanite!
> 
> It's not just denim jeans I'm against - I abhor the jeans cut generally. Five pockets or whatever it's called *grumble* That jeans cut drains all the class straight out of trousers.
> 
> Re American cultural heritage: when I was a little boy I dreamt feverishly of being a Regulator, riding with William Bonney. I'd wear denim trousers in that circumstance - I'd probably get to wear my cravats too. It's a win-win situation. :icon_smile:


You seem to miss the point though. They're not meant to be ultra-classy or elegant, and quite honestly I've yet to find a pair of chinos that drapes all that well either.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Shaver said:


> when I was a little boy I dreamt feverishly of being a Regulator, riding with William Bonney. I'd wear denim trousers in that circumstance - I'd probably get to wear my cravats too. It's a win-win situation. :icon_smile:


The Regulators wore cravats? Who knew? It's amazing what you learn on this forum. Thank-you.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> As with all things, if you've the look and confidence to pull it off, more power to you...
> 
> View attachment 7510


:thumbs-up::thumbs-up:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> The Regulators wore cravats? Who knew? It's amazing what you learn on this forum. Thank-you.












..................................William 'Billy the Kid' Bonney

^ That's close enough for me Sarge.

Cravats, neckerchiefs, it's all good. :icon_smile:


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Shaver said:


> ..................................William 'Billy the Kid' Bonney
> 
> ^ That's close enough for me Sarge.
> 
> Cravats, neckerchiefs, it's all good. :icon_smile:


I quite like Quantrill's effort:









Looks like a killer doesn't he......


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

srmd22 said:


> @Snow Hill Pond: cling to your wallet? why? This guy looks like a mugger to you? Ridiculous.


Mugger? Yes, the white collar type.


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## srmd22 (Jun 30, 2009)

IvanD said:


> Not the best look......





Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Those are _really bad_ jeans. Also, the shirt collar is sloppy, it seems to have floral print cuffs, and what I can see of the jacket isn't so hot.


I agree, the fit isn't too great, a bit sloppy. I was commenting on the general concept of the look: standard blue jeans, light BD shirt, navy SC/blazer, brown (suede?) shoes. Although I don't see what is "really bad" about the jeans. They seem standard to me.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

srmd22 said:


> I agree, the fit isn't too great, a bit sloppy. I was commenting on the general concept of the look: standard blue jeans, light BD shirt, navy SC/blazer, brown (suede?) shoes. Although I don't see what is "really bad" about the jeans. They seem standard to me.


To bring off this hip casual look, you need to be in better shape than Jezza is.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Ironing his shirt wouldn't hurt, either. The way he is now, he looks drunk and slovenly.


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## coase (Apr 29, 2010)

I agree. I don't see why replacing his jeans with equally messy chinos and keeping the wrinkled shirt and jacket would make him look any better.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

The jeans and sportcoat thing works for me in theory. However, I would never do it and I've never seen anyone do it and look good. Well, except for Robert Redford in that picture, but he's Robert Redford.


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## Srben (Mar 25, 2012)

Another vote for "yes":


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## Fatman (May 7, 2013)

Chouan said:


> I've been wearing the combination of tweed jacket, Levi's 501's, casual shirt, "v" neck pullover when appropriate, and brogues, or boots (suede or leather chukks in style), since the early 1980's. I'm happy with the look and I see no reason to change.


I like the casual look of a good pair of jeans, Harris tweed jacket, sports shirt and brogues. Srbn's post above me is a nice combination for a casual weekend outfit where one elevates beyond the usual jeans, t shirt and sneakers. I love the purple against the rich color of the jeans. I don't think it would work as well with heavily faded jeans. The dark, neat jeans look nice with it, and I agree about trying to "urbanize" the look...big mistake.

I moved to a rural area where I think many here would be surprised how much people actually dress like "www.peopleofwalmart.com" ---than not. Even professionals often wear ill fitting jeans, beat up sneakers and a t shirt. Walking in town, or through stores, in clean jeans, shoes, and a tweed, will be a stand out. I always thought "people of walmart" website was hyperbole and was surprised to see how accurate a portrayal it is from where I live, yet every so often I meet someone who likes to dress well.

When walking through Boston, I enjoyed seeing more examples of dress than I have seen in years, especially on a Saturday, with the dressier casual appearance.

I wish he had a few more pictures!


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Details on those nice shoes Srben?


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Blue jeans are of the devil.


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## MZWilson (Apr 14, 2013)

It's a look that I'll do on the occasional Friday. My school (I'm a teacher) is very casual on Fridays and it's my way of staying a touch formal without totally sticking out. Compared to the abominations some of the other teachers try to pull off, I feel I do quite well.


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## Srben (Mar 25, 2012)

RogerP said:


> Details on those nice shoes Srben?


Thank you! They're AE Elgins.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Orsini said:


> Blue jeans are of the devil.


Yard work? Let me fetch your pair of $150 Bills Khakis M1, sir.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Jovan said:


> Yard work? Let me fetch your pair of $150 Bills Khakis M1, sir.


Because jeans never cost that much. :tongue2:

I'm not gonna touch the style aspect of jeans but, even as "work" wear, they have little to offer from a functionality/practicality standpoint for the _average_ wearer (I don't need to hear from every cowboy, ranch hand and homesteader on the forum). They're stiflingly hot in the summer, cold and stiff in the winter, they restrict movement, have difficult-to-access pockets and are rife with all manner of bulky seams and hardware. I do my yard work in a pair of worn out J. Crew khakis if I'm mowing and a pair of stand-up shorts for everything else. In the winter I throw on some wool.


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## Srben (Mar 25, 2012)

I like the variety of switching between denim, chinos, wool odd trousers, and even linen. I get bored too easy with painting a bowl of fruit every day. 

:tongue2:


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## Anthony Charton (May 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I'd love to hear an attempt at a spirited defence of the abominable jeans/jacket combo. If anyone has one, that is.
> 
> .
> .
> ...


I haven't worn jeans in years, and probably will never wear them again, but I have one. To make an analogy: I hate the Misérables musical with a burning passion, but I know a few people whom it helped making a transition from soppy pop music to (proper*) orchestral music. So it can be with jeans/ sports jacket: especially among the younger population, the combination can indeed be the first signs of someone having an interest in elegant clothing. In any case, I'd rather see a man pairing jeans with a sports jacket than with a hoodie.

*Not trying to spar a discussion over the various musical forms mentioned- these are my tastes and views on the matter, used simply to make a comparison.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Srben said:


> Thank you! They're AE Elgins.


Thanks for the info - I like those a whole bunch.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

hardline_42 said:


> ...not gonna touch the style aspect of jeans but, even as "work" wear, they have little to offer from a functionality/practicality standpoint for the _average_ wearer (I don't need to hear from every cowboy, ranch hand and homesteader on the forum). They're stiflingly hot in the summer, cold and stiff in the winter, they restrict movement, have difficult-to-access pockets and are rife with all manner of bulky seams and hardware...


Exceptionally described, Hardline. In the past few years, I've worn jeans (old ones that I've had for years; will never purchase another pair) to shovel snow and to perform some dirty jobs around the house. Jeans are like Top 40 radio, bad movies and television shows, and popular but inaccurate history books - people wear/listen/watch/read them because they simply haven't discovered that there are far better things in the universe...


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Anthony Charton said:


> I haven't worn jeans in years, and probably will never wear them again, but I have one. To make an analogy: I hate the Misérables musical with a burning passion, but I know a few people whom it helped making a transition from soppy pop music to (proper*) orchestral music. So it can be with jeans/ sports jacket: especially among the younger population, the combination can indeed be the first signs of someone having an interest in elegant clothing. In any case, I'd rather see a man pairing jeans with a sports jacket than with a hoodie.
> 
> *Not trying to spar a discussion over the various musical forms mentioned- these are my tastes and views on the matter, used simply to make a comparison.


Is that true? People who listen to vapid inanity such as Les Mis can somehow evolve toward real music? I would have thought listening to musicals would be an impediment rather than a gateway drug. 

At any rate, jeans and a sport jacket is worse than a hoodie. I have developed the ability to ignore hoodies and their wearers but the jeans/sports jacket combo never fails to arouse my ire. :mad2:


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## Anthony Charton (May 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Is that true? People who listen to vapid inanity such as Les Mis can somehow evolve toward real music?


I had to choose between hope and despair.



Shaver said:


> At any rate, jeans and a sport jacket is worse than a hoodie. I have developed the ability to ignore hoodies and their wearers but the jeans/sports jacket combo never fails to arouse my ire. :mad2:


Interesting- I can't stand a hoodie. It's number two on my black list, just below sweatpants.


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## ichiran (May 24, 2013)

Even though I do not own a single hoodie, I nevertheless feel that jeans pair more logically with a hoodie than with a sport jacket.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I like jeans and a properly casual sports jacket but despise hoodies.

Anything can be a gateway to a higher plane, depending on how it's used. Some summers ago we attended a Hollywood Bowl concert featuring the very best of John Williams' film scores. Since among his Oscars were the scores from Jurassic Park, Harry Potter and a couple of others with juvenile audiences, the Bowl was naturally filled with kids and their parents. And, of course, the concert concluded with that greatest of all program pieces, the _1812 Overture_ complete with it's requisite cannon and fireworks show. The youngsters were enthralled! You don't think that didn't make an impression on those whose tastes might well have atrophied to bubblegum rock? Think again. Give them enough exposure to fine music and eventually they will be season ticket holders to the L.A. Philharmonic, just as the Harry Potter books can eventually serve as a gateway to _Hamlet._ That, after all, is what education is supposed to be about.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> I like jeans and a properly casual sports jacket but despise hoodies.
> 
> Anything can be a gateway to a higher plane, depending on how it's used. Some summers ago we attended a Hollywood Bowl concert featuring the very best of John Williams' film scores. Since among his Oscars were the scores from Jurassic Park, Harry Potter and a couple of others with juvenile audiences, the Bowl was naturally filled with kids and their parents. And, of course, the concert concluded with that greatest of all program pieces, the _1812 Overture_ complete with it's requisite cannon and fireworks show. The youngsters were enthralled! You don't think that didn't make an impression on those whose tastes might well have atrophied to bubblegum rock? Think again. Give them enough exposure to fine music and eventually they will be season ticket holders to the L.A. Philharmonic, just as the Harry Potter books can eventually serve as a gateway to _Hamlet._ That, after all, is what education is supposed to be about.


I seethe at the very mention of Rowlings' tripe in the same breath as my beloved Prince of Denmark. This must be one of the thousand unnatural shocks that my flesh is heir to....... :icon_smile_wink:


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You just hate everything, Shaver.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Jovan said:


> You just hate everything, Shaver.


Oh Jovan, come come my dear fellow. That's simply not true.

I loathe and despise certain trends (generally populist trash with seemingly no merit nor redeeming feature, as you may have noticed this theme whilst it develops from my posts) but I am in thrall to my passionate adoration of many, many more specimens of the multitudinous issue attributable to our cultural progeny.

Shakespeare being one of my great loves. Quick! Make a break for it now while you still can - because I can recite soliloquies all night long......

I'll do you a deal though - l shall restrain myself and forgo the criticism of dross for a little while. Now, quid quo pro, what are you going to give me in return? :redface:


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Shaver said:


> I seethe at the very mention of Rowlings' tripe in the same breath as my beloved Prince of Denmark. This must be one of the thousand unnatural shocks that my flesh is heir to....... :icon_smile_wink:


In which Dr. Bloom takes arms against Harry Potty : https://www.fanpop.com/clubs/harry-...35-million-book-buyers-wrong-yes-harold-bloom


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

You didn't love Shakespeare when you began with Peter Rabbit and Mrs. Tiggywinkle. You couldn't because it wouldn't have made any sense to you. If I can get someone to love the Bard by the time he's eighteen (or even thirty) I have to get him past only wanting to ready football scores and car mags. Everyone has to start somewhere and you should be properly grateful that someone started you on a good path at an early age. Not all have been so fortunate. That's why I always read Tolkien to my students after lunch. Often by the end of the second chapter, half or more had their own copies and were reading along with me. When I taught eight-year-olds, I didn't read Tolkien, I read _The Wind in the Willows._ I was told it was above them. Rubbish! They sat open-mouthed and rapt and one little problem of a boy demanded his own copy for Christmas. His mother said he read it, slowly because he was somewhat dyslectic, to himself over and over. She gave me credit for him eventually graduating from high school and going on to technical training.

Everyone has to start somewhere . . . so stop being such a snob! :icon_smile_big:


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Jovan said:


> You just hate everything, Shaver.


Or perhaps our dear Shaver is a gentleman of discrimination, Jovan? :icon_smile:


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> You didn't love Shakespeare when you began with Peter Rabbit and Mrs. Tiggywinkle. You couldn't because it wouldn't have made any sense to you. If I can get someone to love the Bard by the time he's eighteen (or even thirty) I have to get him past only wanting to ready football scores and car mags. Everyone has to start somewhere and you should be properly grateful that someone started you on a good path at an early age. Not all have been so fortunate. That's why I always read Tolkien to my students after lunch. Often by the end of the second chapter, half or more had their own copies and were reading along with me. When I taught eight-year-olds, I didn't read Tolkien, I read _The Wind in the Willows._ I was told it was above them. Rubbish! They sat open-mouthed and rapt and one little problem of a boy demanded his own copy for Christmas. His mother said he read it, slowly because he was somewhat dyslectic, to himself over and over. She gave me credit for him eventually graduating from high school and going on to technical training.
> 
> Everyone has to start somewhere . . . so stop being such a snob! :icon_smile_big:


Well, Ms. Rowlings ain't no Beatrix Potter, sir. :icon_study:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> You didn't love Shakespeare when you began with Peter Rabbit and Mrs. Tiggywinkle. You couldn't because it wouldn't have made any sense to you. If I can get someone to love the Bard by the time he's eighteen (or even thirty) I have to get him past only wanting to ready football scores and car mags. Everyone has to start somewhere and you should be properly grateful that someone started you on a good path at an early age. Not all have been so fortunate. That's why I always read Tolkien to my students after lunch. Often by the end of the second chapter, half or more had their own copies and were reading along with me. When I taught eight-year-olds, I didn't read Tolkien, I read _The Wind in the Willows._ I was told it was above them. Rubbish! They sat open-mouthed and rapt and one little problem of a boy demanded his own copy for Christmas. His mother said he read it, slowly because he was somewhat dyslectic, to himself over and over. She gave me credit for him eventually graduating from high school and going on to technical training.
> 
> Everyone has to start somewhere . . . so stop being such a snob! :icon_smile_big:


Funnily enough I was bored senseless by Peter Rabbit's tiresome 'adventures' when I was but a nipper. Dickens was more my style. Anyway I have made a promise to Jovan so I am, unfortunately, unable to pass my normal judgement on Tolkien at this time.

Wind in the Willows is an enduring and enjoyable read, though, a much loved tale of my youth. The Water Babies also, which I still read occasionally to this day - what a marvellous morality play. I have a charming battered copy published in the 1920's which I picked up at a flea market for a few pennies. This is my favourite excerpt: "He had grown as dry and hard and empty as a quill, as such silly shallow-hearted fellows deserve to grow. But, instead of being ashamed of his emptiness, he was quite proud of it, as a good many fine gentlemen are, and began flirting and flipping up and down, and singing" ahem. :redface:


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Jovan said:


> Yard work? Let me fetch your pair of $150 Bills Khakis M1, sir.


I'm too broken down for yard work.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Brio1 said:


> Well, Ms. Rowlings ain't no Beatrix Potter, sir. :icon_study:


Rowling.

Personally, I found the _Harry Potter_ series to be far more compelling and better written than a certain other book series popular with teens. I realize some people don't like it and understand why, but considering all the other stuff aimed at young people out there? You could do far worse.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

First get kids to read . . . anything! Then you can help them develop taste. And as one who has little interest in or tolerance for what English teachers think I should enjoy reading, that I decided Shakespeare was to my liking was a miracle. Heck, I even like reading Shaw. Dickens, however, along with Austin, Hemingway, and the rest of The Great Canon . . . yawn. Frankly, I'd rather read non-fiction. Perhaps this pragmatic streak explains why I can't develop a good case of the shivers at the thought of a sports jacket with jeans.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

We were read the Wind in the Willows when we were about 9, and loved it. We read out loud "Three Men in a Boat" when we were 11, and many of us couldn't for laughter. We were encouraged to go for "better" literature, having been given the taste for it, as people here suggest. Unfortunately, the less imaginative tend to not read, even when encouraged. It's as true now as it was then.
I'd rather kids read Rowling than not, but it is derivative, erm I can't think of a polite word. But I'd still rather kids read it than not read at all.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Chouan said:


> We were read the Wind in the Willows when we were about 9, and loved it. We read out loud "Three Men in a Boat" when we were 11, and many of us couldn't for laughter. We were encouraged to go for "better" literature, having been given the taste for it, as people here suggest. Unfortunately, the less imaginative tend to not read, even when encouraged. It's as true now as it was then.
> I'd rather kids read Rowling than not, but it is derivative, erm I can't think of a polite word. But I'd still rather kids read it than not read at all.


However it is not an either/or situation. I feel a sense of deep shame that I am a member of a species whose most famous (and financially rewarded) writer is nothing but a "_person whom I cannot express my opinion of in deference to a compact made with my friend Jovan".

.
.

.
_


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

unless they're pressed pants, then you'll be able to pull it off.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Chouan said:


> We were read the Wind in the Willows when we were about 9, and loved it. We read out loud "Three Men in a Boat" when we were 11, and many of us couldn't for laughter. We were encouraged to go for "better" literature, having been given the taste for it, as people here suggest. Unfortunately, the less imaginative tend to not read, even when encouraged. It's as true now as it was then.
> I'd rather kids read Rowling than not, but it is derivative, erm I can't think of a polite word. But I'd still rather kids read it than not read at all.


Wow! Jerome K Jerome at 11 years. Tom Hodgkinson would be delighted: https://idler.co.uk/


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

An actual sports jacket (i.e. with a bold check pattern or bold stripes) would be fine with jeans on a young person.

Still, I voted no. I have not seen a young guy with style in a long time.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Tweed or cord jacket with pale blue jeans or black or green or red jeans is okay, but not with proper indigo blue jeans, that just looks Woolworths! 
Proper sportscoats, blazers with blue jeans however are a big no no as far as I'm concerned.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Yea...


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> First get kids to read . . . anything! Then you can help them develop taste. And as one who has little interest in or tolerance for what English teachers think I should enjoy reading, that I decided Shakespeare was to my liking was a miracle. Heck, I even like reading Shaw. Dickens, however, along with Austin, Hemingway, and the rest of The Great Canon . . . yawn. Frankly, I'd rather read non-fiction. Perhaps this pragmatic streak explains why I can't develop a good case of the shivers at the thought of a sports jacket with jeans.


Love Hemingway. Farewell to arms.


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## JonnyFoy (Aug 11, 2013)

Not to get too topsy turvy on this thread, but I'm curious what people think about pairing a denim blazer with chinos. Something like this, although not with the strange half-attempt at peak lapels:


And if Denim on top with light colored chinos or worsteds on bottom isn't objectionable, why would denim on bottom with something more formal above pose such a quandary for more casual wear?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I would wear a chambray sport coat, not a denim one. The latter is going a little too far.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Chambray jacket with light tan cotton trousers: fine.
Jeans with tweed/cord jacket: Fine, but inferior to chinos/moleskins/cords/flannels.
Jeans with worsted jacket: I'll do it with a hopsack blazer, but it ain't classic, and there are a lot of better options.
Denim sportcoat with jean-type seams: Nope. _Especially_ not with worsted wool trousers.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

This looks fine, it works: casual cord jacket, casual untucked shirt, and pale jeans

(for the purposes of this thread though we don't need to question why he went with a black jacket & black shoes...just move on people, nothing to see here  )

This also works The jeans have that kind of dirty farmers jeans look to them.

This however, while similar, I think looks bloody awful. Suit jacket and business shirt over jeans

This too, also similar, also looks terrible and does not work at all https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2435/4050108263_b84c2a9fc3_o.jpg
The jeans here are far too smart, almost as if he has picked out his best jeans put them on because he doesn't own any trousers. But if you want to wear a shirt & tie then wear trousers not jeans. Nothing looks worse than trying to look more formal in jeans.

As for all those hipsters in ill fitting jeans, tight small jackets, ties, and pointy shoes well they're all wannabee Warhols and they all look like ...... 
Here are a few to consider https://www.dukesattire.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/jeans-navy-jacket-men-style-fashion.jpg

https://blog.trashness.com/wp-conte...-jacket-jeans-blue-tie-smoking-pitti-uomo.jpg

https://images.thesartorialist.com/photos/GQFlorenceWeb.jpg


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

depends on what kind of sport coat it is.


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## Ed Wiser (Oct 20, 2012)

Do it all the time


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## JonnyFoy (Aug 11, 2013)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Chambray jacket with light tan cotton trousers: fine.
> Jeans with tweed/cord jacket: Fine, but inferior to chinos/moleskins/cords/flannels.
> Jeans with worsted jacket: I'll do it with a hopsack blazer, but it ain't classic, and there are a lot of better options.
> Denim sportcoat with jean-type seams: Nope. _Especially_ not with worsted wool trousers.


This is interesting. I guess I'm curious about the reasoning here, if only because there seem to be more similarities than differences to me between cambric and denim fabrics, especially when you start to get into denims from the higher end cloth vendors like Thomas Mason et al. Is it just the way the seams are stitched in a denim sport coat that would throw you off or cause you not to wear it? Or is the more acceptable substitute of a Cambric SC the result of its, to your mind, being often lighter in weight and texture than denim? I think I understand why you wouldn't wear one with worsted trousers (even superfine?): is it that certain types of cloth shouldn't be mixed? I understand that wool is more formal than cotton, but it's also just warmer, so it doesn't necessarily have to be about formality...(I admit that I'm not wholly up to speed on the rules of cloth and/or weave mixing in more casual wear, and that it befuddles me a little bit).


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

A denim jacket with jean-type seams just seems unbearably tacky. Anything tailored but made from jean-style denim just brings up that Britney and Justin picture in my mind.

This is the chambray jacket I was thinking of. It's an off-the-beaten-path Ivy classic. It's roughly the same texture as a poplin suit jacket, and detailed in the same way -- no silly workwear touches.



Denim and chambray are different because of the way they're woven. A denim is a twill, with a dyed warp and an undyed weft. A chambray has the characteristic mottling of denim, with a dyed warp and a white weft. Workwear chambray is often woven from the same kind of heavy, mottled yarn as denim jeans, but it's still basically a plain weave/broadcloth. An end-on-end is technically identical to chambray, but that term is more often used for much more refined shirting (a broadcloth with the warp and weft in the same color is a poplin).

I wouldn't pair most cotton coats with worsted trousers. I don't really like plain worsted trousers. Their utility is rather limited. In cool weather, they're not nearly as nice as flannel, cavalry twill, or even gabardine. In summer, they make sense, but only when you're dressing too formally for cotton or linen trousers. If you're dressing too formally for cotton or linen trousers, it follows that you're aiming for a level of formality that precludes a cotton jacket. Also, the textures don't quite work for me.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Brio1 said:


> Wow! Jerome K Jerome at 11 years. Tom Hodgkinson would be delighted: https://idler.co.uk/


Quite, "Idle Thoughts of an Idle Fellow".


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

YRR hit it right on the nose. And I'm glad my link to J. Press was of service. 

There was a day and age where you could also wear chambray trousers with it and not be thought of as silly. Unfortunately any light blue suits have unfair associations with those powder blue "tuxedos" from the '70s worn with ruffled front shirts and huge bow ties. If one were to do it now, it'd have to be in grey chambray unless you just didn't give a damn what people thought.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> This looks fine, it works: casual cord jacket, casual untucked shirt, and pale jeans
> 
> (for the purposes of this thread though we don't need to question why he went with a black jacket & black shoes...just move on people, nothing to see here  )
> 
> ...


Must disagree. John Travolta still looks bad due to the worn out work jeans. Afraid I_ have_ to factor the black sport coat and two tone polo shirt into it.

Daniel Craig would be okay, his jeans are clean and even in colour, if he'd ditch the orphaned suit jacket for a navy blazer. I see it as no different, in fact worse, from your next example since the pinstripes mark it even more as an orphaned suit jacket.

If you're going to wear a tie with jeans, don't do it in a half-arsed way. When guys loosen their ties at the beginning of the day, it makes me think they aren't confident enough to wear them properly. Thrust that knot up to your neck and wear it proudly, damn it! I also believe a more casual shirt and tie, such as an OCBD and silk knit, would look much more harmonious.

I assume we're considering the rest bad examples, since they all look immaculate up top but are sadly ruined by the use of worn out, faded jeans. It looks like a party joke or something.


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## JonnyFoy (Aug 11, 2013)

This is the chambray jacket I was thinking of. It's an off-the-beaten-path Ivy classic. It's roughly the same texture as a poplin suit jacket, and detailed in the same way -- no silly workwear touches.



That is indeed a gorgeous jacket!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

JonnyFoy, are you having trouble quoting posts?


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

JonnyFoy said:


> Not to get too topsy turvy on this thread, but I'm curious what people think about pairing a denim blazer with chinos. Something like this, although not with the strange half-attempt at peak lapels:
> 
> And if Denim on top with light colored chinos or worsteds on bottom isn't objectionable, why would denim on bottom with something more formal above pose such a quandary for more casual wear?


This jacket looks as though it requires an oval nametag on it, with perhaps a crescent wrench peeking out of one of its pockets.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

MaxBuck said:


> This jacket looks as though it requires an oval nametag on it, with perhaps a crescent wrench peeking out of one of its pockets.


I'd have to agree. I've never seen a man look good in a denim jacket, no matter what kind of jacket it is. Back in the 90s when jean jackets were popular, I hated them then too. I've only seen women wear them well.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

I've said it before and I'll say it again, 
I'm firmly in the jeans and Sportcoat camp. 

It can be a bit tricky sure, the Daniel Craig and Johhny T images are proof ( Does Daniel need my tailors number to shorten the suit jacket?), but done well with proper fitting jeans and a tweed jacket or camel hair or cashmere Sportcoat I think it's a great smart look. 

When I'm traveling for pleasure it's usually what I go to. 

Sure, proper trousers look much more put together and should be ones first choice for meetings, dinner dates, work in all but casual environments etc. 

A mans favorite pair of jeans ( contrary to what about 50% of people on this forum will say) are usually the most comfortable pants they own. I know that's the case with mine.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

firedancer said:


> It can be a bit tricky sure, the Daniel Craig and Johhny T images are proof ( Does Daniel need my tailors number to shorten the suit jacket?), but done well with proper fitting jeans and a tweed jacket or camel hair or cashmere Sportcoat I think it's a great smart look.


Daniel Craig's jacket is the right length, but it's oddly proportioned with the gorge too low and the button stance too high. The sleeves are just a little too long.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> As for all those hipsters in ill fitting jeans, tight small jackets, ties, and pointy shoes well they're all wannabee Warhols and they all look like ......
> Here are a few to consider https://www.dukesattire.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/jeans-navy-jacket-men-style-fashion.jpg
> 
> https://blog.trashness.com/wp-conte...-jacket-jeans-blue-tie-smoking-pitti-uomo.jpg
> ...


Apart from the last one, they all remind me of my son......
At least he's not wearing "skater" stuff anymore!


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

Matt S said:


> Daniel Craig's jacket is the right length, but it's oddly proportioned with the gorge too low and the button stance too high. The sleeves are just a little too long.


Sorry, I was indeed referring to the sleeves specifically.


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## JonnyFoy (Aug 11, 2013)

Jovan said:


> JonnyFoy, are you having trouble quoting posts?


Not that I know of, unless you're being facetious.


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## JonnyFoy (Aug 11, 2013)

Matt S said:


> I'd have to agree. I've never seen a man look good in a denim jacket, no matter what kind of jacket it is. Back in the 90s when jean jackets were popular, I hated them then too. I've only seen women wear them well.


What about him?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I think you just proved his point.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Quite.


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## JonnyFoy (Aug 11, 2013)

He doesn't look like a mechanic, though. I suspect you dislike it in that example for an entirely different reason. Don't know if it's the aviators or the hand-rolled cigarillo, but it seems he wants me to settle a debt no honest man can pay. Maybe it's the mixture of menace with summer tailoring?


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

From somewhere, he seems to have found a Montblanc pen.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

I actually ended up in jeans and a jacket today - something I almost never do - but this thread inspired me to give it a try. Not at the office mind you (never, ever, EVER) but just an early start to the long weekend running around town with my daughter and meeting some friends for lunch.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Should you wear a tie with sport coats and jeans or would it not look too fashionable?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Howard said:


> Should you wear a tie with sport coats and jeans or would it not look too fashionable?


I would.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Howard said:


> Should you wear a tie with sport coats and jeans or would it not look too fashionable?


It's plenty fashionable, but there are a variety of opinions on whether you actually should.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Howard said:


> Should you wear a tie with sport coats and jeans or would it not look too fashionable?


There are any number of highly 'fashionable' choices that I would not select for myself. I know that I would not pair jeans with a tie any more than I would pair a sports coat with sneakers - and for exactly the same reason.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Bjorn said:


> I would.


I tried wearing a dress shirt, jeans and tie and I look like a student. Maybe I should dress my age.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

RogerP said:


> There are any number of highly 'fashionable' choices that I would not select for myself. I know that I would not pair jeans with a tie any more than I would pair a sports coat with sneakers - and for exactly the same reason.


unless you're some Harvard graduate.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Howard said:


> I tried wearing a dress shirt, jeans and tie and I look like a student. Maybe I should dress my age.


Don't wear a tie without a jacket or sweater. It looks unfinished.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Jovan said:


> Don't wear a tie without a jacket or sweater. It looks unfinished.


could it be any color tie? What about black? it goes with everything.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

It's just what I said.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Jovan said:


> It's just what I said.


Exactly. A tie needs a sweater or jacket over it, unless it's part of a uniform. It either looks like a uniform, or it looks unfinished, like you've left your jacket on the back of your chair.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Plus, black is one of the less versatile colors for ties, especially with blue jeans. I'd say either a burgundy or a blue tie would be a better "goes with anything" tie.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Serenus (Jun 19, 2009)

Here in the hallowed halls of the Ivy League, most students would consider jeans and a sport coat as "dressing up" (I mean this only partly tongue-in-cheek.) As for the faculty, things usually are a bit better. I only attempt the jeans + sportcoat option on Fridays. And even then, it is usually a damn nice pair of jeans.


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