# The connotations of the acronym WASP??



## Future_Quant_Deji (Aug 10, 2011)

Hello to all. I came across a website this morning expressing what "WASPs" supposedly like, and I was somewhat disturbed by this. I happen to be a young African male whose parents migrated to the United States 20+ years ago. Furthermore, I come from a well educated family, my father was a professor and mother was a school teacher.

I am fairly educated myself, and in the process of completing my Doctoral degree from a Top 10 program in the country. And I like to dress in a particular manner, and I would consider myself a Trad. I would say my favorite place to shop is JPress. Anyway, so as an African male, when I read about the WASP style and how it seems there might be some similarities with the Trad look, it does not sit too well with me. The acronym WASP sounds inherently disturbing from my perspective as an African, and would like to get anyones feedback on this. Or maybe I just do not know much about WASPs. 
And, I have always wondered, how do Trads perceive WASPs? 

Cheers,
FQD


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Luckily, there's no such thing as WASP style. For a previous thread, started by a troll, on this question, see: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?104407-Not-WASP-and-still-Trad


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

As a WASP whose family has been here since the 1620s; all I can suggest is don't get hung up on it - America is all about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and being whatever you have the determination and desire to be.

A nation of immigrants.

Forward!


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

1. Not sure if serious. If serious, interesting 3rd post.
2. I'm not sure why you're giving WASP such negative connotations, unless the website implied some sort of racial superiority or something. White Anglo-Saxon Protestant seems a decent description of some folks.
3. This isn't the sharks v. the jets here, there's no WASP v. Trad trident fight in the alley, particularly since anyone can dress trad.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I prefer "Ivy League" to "Trad," and "Ivy" to "Ivy League," since it connotes "collegiate" rather than a small group of Northeastern colleges. "WASP," as Professor Baltzell used it, refers not to anyone of white anglo-saxon protestant descent, but to the rather small patrician element of that group, who once filled our northeastern prepschools and colleges, and held a majority of the top jobs in government and industry. Those days are long gone, so don't sweat it.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

If you like to dress in this manner continue to do so and don't worry about any perceived negative connotations of WASPs. I just try to avoid getting stung by them in the summer.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

WASP is as innocuous as the NAACP!!


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

Oh good grief...


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

A connotation is defined as a commonly understood *subjective* and/or emotional association that some word or phrase carries.

Now what is it to be Politically correct? Relating to, or supporting broad social, political, and educational change, especially to redress historical injustices in matters such as race, class, gender, and sexual orientation. (*Which in itself is highly subjective*)

To the original post, I think your first mistake was reading about "WASP Style" in the first place. As an individual who's ancestors immigrated from Birmingham, England in the early 1800's and was raised in a Protestant household, not to mention I'm a person "not of color," what exactly can I be called in our "politically correct" society?

Is there any way we could come up with a "Style" for individuals who are Native Americans or African Americans? If we did what are the chances that members of those groups would call the whole thing highly racist? Personally I think it would be racist to say that anyone could come up with a "Style" that encompassed individuals in these groups. (I think that would also be a "Stereotype.")

There is no such thing as WASP style just as there is no such thing as Native American Style or African American Style. To define an entire group has having a given style is just plain ignorant,...

Furthermore there should not be *any* connotation to defining someone as being White, from an Anglo-Saxon heritage, and who worships in the Protestant Church.

The insidious nature and entire concept of what it is to be "politically correct" is the most dangerous threat to progressive social change in our society today.

If they are telling you what you can say today how long will it be before they are telling you what to think?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

127.72 MHz said:


> Furthermore there should not be *any* connotation to defining someone as being White, from an Anglo-Saxon heritage, and who worships in the Protestant Church.


Exactly.

I mean, just the other day someone called me a WASP. I suppose I look and talk like one, but I'm not.

I just shrugged it off.

It's better than CRACKER!!


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

And thus, the predictable result of a silly a$$ troll's post -- the OP (with a chip on his shoulder).


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## Future_Quant_Deji (Aug 10, 2011)

As the author of the original post, I have to say that different groups of people would perceive the acronym WASP in a variety of ways. As it pertains to my background, I think everyone ought to have the liberty to dress in a manner that exemplifies who they are. I like wearing traditional/classic American clothing, and it should not mean that I am being pretentious. I feel very comfortable in dressing this way. 

Let me give a prime example of an incident that prompted me to initiate this thread. On a particular summer afternoon, I was buying some clothes at a BrooksBrothers store, and did not appreciate the way I was stared at by a male caucasian customer. I do not mean to imply that he was a WASP, and maybe he was. But a man should not be stared at in that way, as to give the impression he was abnormal for daring to wear things that African or African American men do not usually wear. 

Sad to say, but I have had other experiences similar to the one just described.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

cmacey said:


> And thus, the predictable result of a silly a$$ troll's post -- the OP with (a chip on his shoulder).


Maybe you're correct. A troll? Someone who wanted to get a online row going? Perhaps this isn't the venue but I think this kind of thing should be discussed at length.


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

127.72 MHz said:


> Maybe you're correct. A troll? Someone who wanted to get a online row going? Perhaps this isn't the venue but I think this kind of thing should be discussed at length.


Wrong place!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

WouldaShoulda said:


> WASP is as innocuous as the NAACP!!


...

...

Wow.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> As the author of the original post, I have to say that different groups of people would perceive the acronym WASP in a variety of ways. As it pertains to my background, I think everyone ought to have the liberty to dress in a manner that exemplifies who they are. I like wearing traditional/classic American clothing, and it should not mean that I am being pretentious. I feel very comfortable in dressing this way.
> 
> Let me give a prime example of an incident that prompted me to initiate this thread. On a particular summer afternoon, I was buying some clothes at a BrooksBrothers store, and did not appreciate the way I was stared at by a male caucasian customer. I do not mean to imply that he was a WASP, and maybe he was. But a man should not be stared at in that way, as to give the impression he was abnormal for daring to wear things that African or African American men do not usually wear.
> 
> Sad to say, but I have had other experiences similar to the one just described.


This guy says, "suck it up, you're not blazing any trails." Decide what you want to wear and own it. No one will care.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> Let me give a prime example of an incident that prompted me to initiate this thread. On a particular summer afternoon, I was buying some clothes at a BrooksBrothers store, and did not appreciate the way I was stared at by a male caucasian customer. I do not mean to imply that he was a WASP, and maybe he was. But a man should not be stared at in that way, as to give the impression he was abnormal for daring to wear things that African or African American men do not usually wear.


Are you sure it wasn't the TP sticking out of your trousers he was staring at??


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

I think this is what the OP is speaking about https://www.stuffwaspslike.com/.

Here a piece that makes fun of WASPS https://www.ivy-style.com/protestant-deformation-neurotic-wasps-1990.html#more-645

If one is really interested there is this https://www.amazon.com/Protestant-Establishment-Aristocracy-Caste-America/dp/0300038186

Also the books of Cleveland Amory are interesting. Works like _The Proper Bostonians_,_Who Killed Society? and The last resorts. 
_


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

C. Sharp said:


> Here a piece that makes fun of WASPS


That's not nice.

I think they prefer to be called "Melanin Challeged" these days.

Your insensitivity is startling!!


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> I was buying some clothes at a BrooksBrothers store, and did not appreciate the way I was stared at by a male caucasian customer...But a man should not be stared at in that way, as to give the impression he was abnormal for daring to wear things that African or African American men do not usually wear...


Don't you think you're being a bit overly sensitive here? Wear what you want, and when you want to, but please spare us the "imperious white male with an aura of racism" victimization stuff...


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> .
> 
> Let me give a prime example of an incident that prompted me to initiate this thread. On a particular summer afternoon, I was buying some clothes at a BrooksBrothers store, and did not appreciate the way I was stared at by a male caucasian customer. I do not mean to imply that he was a WASP, and maybe he was. But a man should not be stared at in that way, as to give the impression he was abnormal for daring to wear things that African or African American men do not usually wear.


I'm an idiot for getting sucked in to threads like this. Unbelievable, sir.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> I'm an idiot for getting sucked in to threads like this. Unbelievable, sir.


No, Rambler, you were being kind, empathetic, and informative. Nothing idiotic about that!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Tiger said:


> No, Rambler, you were being kind, empathetic, and informative. Nothing idiotic about that!


He is a far better man than me.

I'm just in it for the laffs!!


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

I hope Danny DeVito doesn't get a job at Brooks Brothers - the OP will really have something to complain about!


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)




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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Trip English said:


>


This is offensive and, frankly, I'm surprised a classy forum like this would allow it. Everybody knows that cookies are a "sometimes" food and it's stereotypical to show BISMs (blue, impeded-speech monsters) and cookies in such a light.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

hardline_42 said:


> This is offensive and, frankly, I'm surprised a classy forum like this would allow it. Everybody knows that cookies are a "sometimes" food and it's stereotypical to show BISMs (blue, impeded-speech monsters) and cookies in such a light.


C is for cookies
Thats good enough for me
C is for cookies 
that's good enough for me
C is for cookies
That's good enough for me
Cookies cookies cookies start with c
Cookies cookies cookies start with c

Don't get me started on the muppets, sesame street, and stereotypes. The Swedish chef anyone?!?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Bjorn said:


> Don't get me started on the muppets, sesame street, and stereotypes. The Swedish chef anyone?!?


I was always afraid of the Swedish chef because he had human hands. Even at a tender age I knew something was amiss with that one.


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> ...was abnormal for daring to wear things that African or African American men do not usually wear.


Miles Davis dressed very well.










As did Harry Belafonte.

And who could forget the great Sidney Poitier?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

^^ Hahaha! I love The Onion.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> Hello to all. I came across a website this morning expressing what "WASPs" supposedly like, and I was somewhat disturbed by this. I happen to be a young African male whose parents migrated to the United States 20+ years ago. Furthermore, I come from a well educated family, my father was a professor and mother was a school teacher.
> 
> I am fairly educated myself, and in the process of completing my Doctoral degree from a Top 10 program in the country. And I like to dress in a particular manner, and I would consider myself a Trad. I would say my favorite place to shop is JPress. Anyway, so as an African male, when I read about the WASP style and how it seems there might be some similarities with the Trad look, it does not sit too well with me. The acronym WASP sounds inherently disturbing from my perspective as an African, and would like to get anyones feedback on this. Or maybe I just do not know much about WASPs.
> And, I have always wondered, how do Trads perceive WASPs?
> ...


Can u be more specific? What's disturbing about it?
Surely you'll encounter racism - but doubt it would be because you dress in BBs


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

WASP is a concept that one can apply to tracking that group, but it doesn't give much to any discussion on style and clothes. Primarily because they don't dress with conformity. 

It excludes white American Catholics and Jews, which seems pretty pointless. It's equally pointless as separating British anglicans from British Catholics. 

However, the OP seems to be contemplating what American white and black people respectively think about black people dressing more traditionally than the norm. Way more traditionally, I guess from what I see on TV. 

And of course, that's gonna irritate some people. And draw attention. Perhaps a lot more attention than a white middleage upper middle class man wearing the same clothes. If one dresses well, it draws attention. The amount of good attention you get, from people who matter, easily cancels out the negative attention, IMO. Otherwise, one quite possibly isn't socialising with people who have anything to offer, and to whom one has nothing to offer in return. Then you move on. 

I can't imagine it working against black Americans to dress trad, in the long run.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> Hello to all. I came across a website this morning expressing what "WASPs" supposedly like, and I was somewhat disturbed by this. I happen to be a young African male whose parents migrated to the United States 20+ years ago. Furthermore, I come from a well educated family, my father was a professor and mother was a school teacher.
> 
> I am fairly educated myself, and in the process of completing my Doctoral degree from a Top 10 program in the country. And I like to dress in a particular manner, and I would consider myself a Trad. I would say my favorite place to shop is JPress. Anyway, so as an African male, when I read about the WASP style and how it seems there might be some similarities with the Trad look, it does not sit too well with me. The acronym WASP sounds inherently disturbing from my perspective as an African, and would like to get anyones feedback on this. Or maybe I just do not know much about WASPs.
> And, I have always wondered, how do Trads perceive WASPs?
> ...


In the unlikely event that your post is sincre, let the term trouble you no further as it's oigin was as a semi-comical stereotype. If you are discussing Wasp 101, (You again Richard? Things a bit slow?) don't waste your time. The blogger is clueless.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

If you haven't heard, Richard is busy closing some monetary transactions and going on jaunts. No need to drum up readership here.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> Hello to all. I came across a website this morning expressing what "WASPs" supposedly like, and I was somewhat disturbed by this. I happen to be a young African male whose parents migrated to the United States 20+ years ago. Furthermore, I come from a well educated family, my father was a professor and mother was a school teacher.
> 
> I am fairly educated myself, and in the process of completing my Doctoral degree from a Top 10 program in the country. And I like to dress in a particular manner, and I would consider myself a Trad. I would say my favorite place to shop is JPress. Anyway, so as an African male, when I read about the WASP style and how it seems there might be some similarities with the Trad look, it does not sit too well with me. The acronym WASP sounds inherently disturbing from my perspective as an African, and would like to get anyones feedback on this. Or maybe I just do not know much about WASPs.
> And, I have always wondered, how do Trads perceive WASPs?
> ...


I apologize if this causes offense, but this is frankly absurd. I am equally offended by the Congressional Black Caucus, which is discriminatory against members of Congress who are white and Anglo-Saxon. In all seriousness, this political correctness needs to stop.

The term WASP is not meant to be racist. It simply refers to the predominant nationality and religious affiliation of a majority -- and then a plurality -- of Americans for much of this country's history.

Today it is overused and colloquially refers to a cultural attachment. I have Polish-American friends -- practicing Roman Catholics -- who are more WASP in their perceived manner of dress, manners and culture than legitimate WASPs.

It's the same with the term "preppy." True WASPs or preppies would never describe themselves as such. Rather the label is applied by those looking to categorize a segment of society.

I had an uncle, who was a judge and one-time member of the state Legislature. He was of the traditional Anglo-American culture and could accurately be described as upper-crust -- he was a true WASP in every sense of the term. He would never call himself "judge" or use his courtesy title of "The Honorable." He reckoned that everyone who needed to know his title knew it and would afford him the dignity and respectability that he was entitled to &#8230; He also wouldn't have called himself a WASP.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Tiger said:


> Don't you think you're being a bit overly sensitive here? Wear what you want, and when you want to, but please spare us the "imperious white male with an aura of racism" victimization stuff...


As an Anglo-American Protestant, I am a minority in the United States of 2011 and I think it's time I receive some compensation and preferential treatment for my station in life.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Rolling over the floor laughing my arse off.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

hockeyinsider said:


> I think it's time I receive some compensation and preferential treatment


OK.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Seriously: May we call to the stand forum member, Srivats. what do you think about this discussion since you uphold the trad style but obviously not a WASP in decent?


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Or Wisco or about half the guys who read the board on a regular basis - actually no need to respond. We can all agree that in the 1950s and 1960s, when ivy style was in its heyday, a significant portion of men from all racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds wore the clothes - the style had nothing to do with whether one was a WASP or not and it still doesn't.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Right on the mark, Cards. This is assuming the OP isn't just trying to stir the pot!


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## M Go Crimson (Aug 20, 2011)

Saw this gem on Facebook today:

"To the douchetool in a suit carrying a heavily earmarked, beat up copy of Atlas Shrugged: Dude, your argyle already told me you were a WASP"

Followed by

"I don't loathe Ayn Rand at all. I hate the taking of her message by preppy white frat boys convinced they're saving the world because they managed to read a nice book about only looking out for yourself."

:icon_headagainstwal


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ This attitude is becoming epidemic in our society gentleman.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

M Go Crimson said:


> frat boys convinced they're saving the world because they managed to read a nice book about only looking out for yourself."


No, it really makes sense as long as you don't think about it.

The irony being that the authentic socio-economic group for which the term WASP was intended, while often conservative in *some *aspects of personal behavior, tended to be quite moderate politically, indeed, often compassionate. Think Millicent Fenwick, AKA Lacy Davenport.


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

The best dressed man I ever saw, besides actor James Stewart, whom I met very briefly at a luncheon in his honor late in his life, was on the sales staff of the Madison Avenue Brooks Brothers. He was African-American and we were possibly neighbors because I spotted him once or twice at my subway station uptown. We never met. His clothes were strictly Brooks, though possibly MTM. Two buttons on suit cuff, but working buttons with one always open. And the jacket was lightly shaped, changing the outline of a sack into something more dandyish. Though there is a tradition, in the Americas as well as in post-colonial Africa, of black men appropriating the style of the ruling whites and putting a spin on it, I don't know if this was true of this gentleman or if he simply had flawless taste. One is tempted to classify his very understated but individualistic style as WASP.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

Future_Quant_Deji said:


> when I read about the WASP style and how it seems there might be some similarities with the Trad look, it does not sit too well with me. The acronym WASP sounds inherently disturbing from my perspective as an African,


Catholics feel the same way. So, you're not alone in your perception.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

M Go Crimson said:


> Saw this gem on Facebook today:
> 
> "To the douchetool in a suit carrying a heavily earmarked, beat up copy of Atlas Shrugged: Dude, your argyle already told me you were a WASP"
> 
> ...


I think they missed the entire impetus of that novel. Or the fact that some people... simply like to read good books when they're out and about. Would I be marked by someone else as a douchetool (what does that even mean?) or pretentious for reading "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" I do wonder now.



efdll said:


> The best dressed man I ever saw, besides actor James Stewart, whom I met very briefly at a luncheon in his honor late in his life, was on the sales staff of the Madison Avenue Brooks Brothers. He was African-American and we were possibly neighbors because I spotted him once or twice at my subway station uptown. We never met. His clothes were strictly Brooks, though possibly MTM. Two buttons on suit cuff, but working buttons with one always open. And the jacket was lightly shaped, changing the outline of a sack into something more dandyish. Though there is a tradition, in the Americas as well as in post-colonial Africa, of black men appropriating the style of the ruling whites and putting a spin on it, I don't know if this was true of this gentleman or if he simply had flawless taste. One is tempted to classify his very understated but individualistic style as WASP.


I think you're reading into it too much. He probably just wants to look good.



tinytim said:


> Catholics feel the same way. So, you're not alone in your perception.


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