# does (Gin + Vodka + Vermouth) have a name?



## goplutus (Jun 4, 2005)

I order it served as they would a regular gin martini, w/ a few olives. It seems similar to the Vesper, but not quite. I'd like to be able to cut the order down from an instruction manual to some type of named cocktail if possible.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

As far as I understand Vespers, that is a Vesper. Here's a not-so-great source on the matter - ).

You're using a different garnish, I suppose, but a Martini is a Martini whether garnished with an olive, a lemon peel, or both (all of which I do sometimes).


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## ShieldsOnTour (Dec 8, 2008)

goplutus said:


> I order it served as they would a regular gin martini, w/ a few olives. It seems similar to the Vesper, but not quite. I'd like to be able to cut the order down from an instruction manual to some type of named cocktail if possible.


Yes, its called "the drink I currently have in my hand" ... :icon_smile_big:

Although at the moment (while I'm working 15 hour days, 7 days a week) i seem to have one every night.

Its a Vesper - although a Vesper is served with a twist.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

A proper vesper is made with Lillet blanc, which is different from vermouth. 

I'd call a mixture of gin, vodka and vermouth a martini. If you don't like the taste of straight gin, cutting it with vodka would be a way to make it a little less "ginny" - especially if you prefer a lighter gin like, say, Tanqueray, and you can only get a very piney-tasting gin like Beefeater (e.g., if you were having a martini at at my house :icon_smile.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

^I was under the impression that Lillet Blanc was simply Lillet's dry vermouth. Thanks, JerseyJohn, for the correction. I used _the_ Google to confirm, and you are spot on.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

I have a bottle of Lillet in the fridge. It's a bit sweeter than dry vermouth and has a fruitier taste. I tried a Vesper with Lillet and didn't care for it - I don't really like sweet stuff in gin. Fleming (Bond) called for "Kina Lillet". As I recall, Lillet used to be called Kina Lillet and used to have quinine in it. At some point they dropped the quinine and at some point they dropped the "Kina", but I don't know which came first. So it's not clear, to me at least, whether Fleming meant the vesper to be based on the old quinine formula (no longer available) or not.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

It's a no-go for sweet stuff in my gin also. Like Embury, I like dry vermouth with gin and sweet with whiskey, and I won't budge on the matter.

Thanks for the notes on Lillet Blanc. Seems like something one could experiment with elsewhere (away from gin that is).


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## JAGMAJ (Feb 10, 2005)

JerseyJohn said:


> I have a bottle of Lillet in the fridge. It's a bit sweeter than dry vermouth and has a fruitier taste. I tried a Vesper with Lillet and didn't care for it - I don't really like sweet stuff in gin. Fleming (Bond) called for "Kina Lillet". As I recall, Lillet used to be called Kina Lillet and used to have quinine in it. At some point they dropped the quinine and at some point they dropped the "Kina", but I don't know which came first. So it's not clear, to me at least, whether Fleming meant the vesper to be based on the old quinine formula (no longer available) or not.


At the time Casino Royale was written, Kina Lillet was, in fact, the old version (no longer available) with quinine. So, in order to make a Vesper true to the book, one shouldn't use the new Lillet. I believe that there was an in-depth thread on this forum regarding this topic not too long ago that recommended some acceptable substitiutes.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

JAGMAJ said:


> At the time Casino Royale was written, Kina Lillet was, in fact, the old version (no longer available) with quinine. So, in order to make a Vesper true to the book, one shouldn't use the new Lillet. I believe that there was an in-depth thread on this forum regarding this topic not too long ago that recommended some acceptable substitiutes.


That is my recollection as well. It seems that the mold has indeed been broken on the true vesper, much like the inimitable Bond himself. Poetic justice it seems.


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