# LANGUAGE!



## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

Recently my father and I went over to my friend's house for dinner. Long story short, everything was fine until another couple showed up and my friend started dropping the fbomb every other word. This made me very uncomfortable and I started to pay attention to everyday speech. 

Does everybody use coarse language in every sentence these days? I work in an office of about 40 people and it certainly seems like it. I have taken to uterring a chiding, "language", upon the uttering of a vulgarity and I'm now "censoring" people as well as impinging upon their freedom. I admit it never used to bother me but since I've started paying attention I'm appalled by what I hear. Am I crazy? 

I have absolutely no authority over anyone in the office so my remonstrations have no "weight".

quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Michael


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I stopped being appalled because it took all my time.

You're not crazy - lousy language is everywhere. It's a cheap and brainless way of making one's point. And ineffective, too - nobody pays much attention.

When I swear I mean it.

Effin'-A right, mamma-tamma. []


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I am guilty and consciously working to stop. It's the handmaiden to 'you know?' Daily lnaguage is like the latest 5 basic food groups; artificial colouring, artificial flavouring, preservatives, fillers and 5% real apple juices- from concentrate made in Chile[xx(]


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Thank-you, Clothesboy, for choosing to be a chivalrous knight fighting against the dragon of creeping barbarism.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I dislike a lot of coarse language, too, although I occaisionly will refer to someone who is being a complete jackass as a f------ idiot.

(This does not make it right, I try not to do that.)

I think that it makes someone sound coarse and unrefined, although, I seldom will correct someone (other than my nephews) to their face.

I do prefer not to be in the company of people who curse a lot. While I am not "offended" for the most part, I inwardly react the same way I might if someone picked their nose in front of me. It's tacky.

I find that generally if I don't do it a lot myself, those around me seem to do it less.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I must admit, I'm guilty of using language that would make a teamster blush at times...but I can controll it, I dont find that kind of language all that offensive...I think it's a matter of using it in the proper context...

...an interesting project I want to someday try to count how many times a day I use "The F word"...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by The Gabba Goul_
> ...an interesting project I want to someday try to count how many times a day I use "The F word"...


_Oh my *gawd!*_ Gabba Goul must think me the ultimate prissy British poof (cf the earlier "braces" topic), yet this is langauge I cannot condone for any reason, whatsoever. Who was it that said that "profanity is the pit of the ignorant"? Well, my friend, you are not ignorant, but it seems frankly lazy on your part that you would resort to such an easy "out" and with such alarming frequency.[:0]

Oh well, what do I know. Living in the UK I am absolutely *devastated* by the language I hear on public transport these days. Young men in their late teens seem to use the f-word approximately every 12 seconds. As a young man, I still might ask: what has gone wrong?


Rarely, rarely, comest thou,
Spirit of Delight!
Wherefore hast thou left me now
Many a day and night?
Many a weary night and day
'Tis since thou art fled away.

Percy Bysshe Shelley: _Song_​


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

On some network TV show the other night I heard one teenage character refer to her teacher as a 'dick'. On 'The West Wing', one of the more literate shows on network TV, one character referred to another as being "assholic" (I suppose the censors draw the line at 'assholish'). So, there ya go. Most intelligent, well-educated people would be loathe to admit that either their language or behavior would be influenced in the least by pop culture, but I'm not so sure.


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Jason Evans_
> . . . . Gabba Goul must think me the ultimate prissy British poof . . . , yet this is langauge I cannot condone for any reason, whatsoever. Who was it that said that "profanity is the pit of the ignorant"? . . . . Young men in their late teens seem to use the f-word approximately every 12 seconds. As a young man, I still might ask: what has gone wrong?


No one of sensitivity (to others, if not to himself) would condone such obscenity. We may take wry amusement from the fact that, while we read and post here at length about clothing, the far surer indicators of gentility are speech and comportment. No gentleman would mistake a vulgarian for another of his class.

What has gone wrong? _That's_ a lengthy topic. In the States, some of what's gone wrong -- has gone wrong for many a decade -- can be traced to a combination of poor education and worse breeding, materialism without virtue, acquisitiveness without charity. And it will get worse.


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## Hanseat (Nov 20, 2004)

Let me share a short anecdote with you:

In my senior English class the teacher had signs hanging down from the ceiling. One of them had "like" written on it and a drawing of a huge mouth, the other featured the words "You know" and a monster. Mind you, this was AP English Literature & Composition, the most advanced course one can take in HS. I had fellow students now attending Harvard, Yale, MIT and some renowned liberal arts colleges in this course and they would use these words before this course.

What our outstanding teacher would do is following: When he heard one of the words he'd lean his head sideways, take one arm (sleeve rolled up) and point it at the sign and give you a glare. This would send a chill down you spine because you knew that you had just violated one of the 'sacred' rules of the course. One would never, ever use these words in a wrong context again- it was an unforgettable experience when this great teacher (a tall and strong man in his late fifties) would give you this curious look right in your eyes. This burns it right in memory, for ever!


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Constant profanity drives me up the wall. Ride a high-schooler filled bus in Queens some morning and weep for the future. Sweet looking 14-year-old girls screeching the most vile filth...

It does seem to reflect some ugliness of spirit, to spew such ugliness so relentlessly.

I think a well-placed expletive can be a wonderful thing. I cry with laughter watching Richard Pryor's concert films. There are moments when one of the "censored seven" is the only right choice (discussing the president comes to mind).

But that dreary daily non-stop profanity, used almost as unconscious punctuation, indicates the user isn't very bright, well-read, worldly. I suppose there are exceptions, but the people I have known who talk like that are people I wasn't very happy to know.

Happily, I work with a bunch of other genteel prigs and don't have to deal with it too much.


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## eromlignod (Nov 23, 2005)

I've got to believe that television and movies are at least partially at the root of this...television in particular. I recall that some of the words that are now commonplace on TV showed up suddenly--almost overnight--some time around the late Eighties. Ostensibly they decided to start allowing words that are scientific or that could be proven to be innocuous in other contexts (like "ass" stemming from the mule-like creature, or "*****" meaning a cat). Then they allowed compound phrases that are made up of two words that are ordinary when used alone, e.g. "butt-hole".

I'm not sure what their reasoning was. Was it to boost ratings? The whole thing is juvenile and vulgar. For shame, TV producers! Common decency is not censorship.

Also, when swear words become commonplace, they lose their effectiveness. What's left to say now when you strike your thumb with a hammer?

Don
Kansas City


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## mendozar (Dec 13, 2005)

In my mind, the overuse of profanity has desensitized people, removing the shock value of the words. I think that Victorian verbosity and illustrative similes/metaphors that would make Strunk & White cringe are far more effective.

Cheers,

Rufino


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## Vettriano Man (Jun 30, 2005)

Sadly, the 'F' word is so commonly used now as to not bat an eyelid and one just gets so used to hearing it everywhere - television included - and there is so much blatant provocation like the 'FCUK' brand, but uncouth people just use it out loud for cheap effect more that anything else, it seems to me.

It's curious though, because although I'm disgusted hearing it from others I'm ashamed to admit that I do on occasions say the word privately to myself when something goes wrong, the way Hugh Grant gently says it to himself in 'Four Weddings and a Funeral' _(F***, F***ety, F***!)_ [:I]


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

I am not squeamish about the F-word but I cannot abide the use of the word "bullsh*t", particularly by women.

----------------------


"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Vettriano man_
> It's curious though, because although I'm disgusted hearing it from others I'm ashamed to admit that I do on occasions say the word privately to myself when something goes wrong, the way Hugh Grant gently says it to himself in 'Four Weddings and a Funeral' _(F***, F***ety, F***!)_ [:I]


My earlier post notwithstanding, I'm not really as priggish as I may have appeared. And I'm _certainly_ not above using the f-word at particularly choice moments![}] That said, my original point still stands.

BTW, that was a terrific Hugh Grant film.


Rarely, rarely, comest thou,
Spirit of Delight!
Wherefore hast thou left me now
Many a day and night?
Many a weary night and day
'Tis since thou art fled away.

Percy Bysshe Shelley: _Song_​


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Vettriano man_
> 
> Sadly, the 'F' word is so commonly used now as to not bat an eyelid and one just gets so used to hearing it everywhere - television included - and there is so much blatant provocation like the 'FCUK' brand, but uncouth people just use it out loud for cheap effect more that anything else, it seems to me.
> 
> It's curious though, because although I'm disgusted hearing it from others I'm ashamed to admit that I do on occasions say the word privately to myself when something goes wrong, the way Hugh Grant gently says it to himself in 'Four Weddings and a Funeral' _(F***, F***ety, F***!)_ [:I]


I could've sworn(!) it was "bugger" that he used in that film...


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## Vettriano Man (Jun 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_
> 
> I could've sworn(!) it was "bugger" that he used in that film...


I believe he does also use the 'B' word, but in the opening sequence when he wakes up late for the first wedding he rushes round the flat saying _"F,F,F"!_[:0]


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I have alot worse carachter flaws than swearing...but...still, I must maintain that if a person can control the language, then there is nothing "ungentlemanly" about it...true, you're a savage if you drop the "F-Bomb" repeatedly while at a tea party with your girlfriend's grandma or something...but if you're sitting around watching a football game or something with a bunch of guys and say things like "darn" and "shucks" or perhaps "ooooh fudge" in place of real explatives (sp?), you deserve to be kicked out and not invited back...

And Jason...for the record, I deffinately dont think you the ultimate prissy British poof...but I'm still not quite sure that you aren't the bizarro me...hopefully our paths will cross someday...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by The Gabba Goul_
> And Jason...for the record, I deffinately dont think you the ultimate prissy British poof...but I'm still not quite sure that you aren't the bizarro me...hopefully our paths will cross someday...


That would be fun and, as they say, _never a dull moment!_ The things we could talk about over as many drinks and cigarettes as we may wish to consume.

One other thing: in your posts you often use the word "deffinately". Yet it does not show up in my Oxford dictionary. (That's "Oxford", not Oxxford- that's a weird one to a Brit.) I have always spelled it "definitely". But is your usage some Americanism I am not aware of? I always try to be a bit _hip_, and I will be the first Brit boy to congratulate the Americans for their enrichment of our dear language. (To the more traditional British men on this forum.. perhaps it's my generation and therefore youthful idiocy. Yet you people must admit...)

Rarely, rarely, comest thou,
Spirit of Delight!
Wherefore hast thou left me now
Many a day and night?
Many a weary night and day
'Tis since thou art fled away.

Percy Bysshe Shelley: _Song_​


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

In certain contexts, swearing is not problematic; however, I find that generally it is very tedious and more or less vulgar.

There is a salesperson I like at Wilkes Bashford who is not conservative with her language. That is precisely why I like her.

*'The kind of acting I used to enjoy no longer exists because your prime consideration is the budget, running time, the cost - and whether they'll understand it in Milwaukee.'*

*Dirk Bogarde*


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## constantine (Jul 24, 2005)

Michael,

coarse language is completely unacceptable. It is truly a way for uneducated people to express their emotions in a very limited and cruel manner. Still, the world is not changing for the better, and there is nothing we can do to stop people because everyone has his or her own conscience. 

This bothers me a lot as my mother tongue is Russian and Russians are known for a very wide range of swear words. That is actually part of their language studies at some universities. 

You know, Michael, if you want to find absolutely great people who absolutely never swear, you would have to go to the local Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses. May Mr Gilchrist excuse me for the remark, but that is about the only group of never-swearing people that I know from experience.

Constantine Kozlov
Tallinn, Estonia


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

Fellow forumites:

I'm not absolutely opposed to vulgarity, just the overuse of said. Actually, upon reflection, I'm not to sure about that sentence but I'll let it stand for now. It's the constancy of it that annoys me. I really believe that it is just a habit. People don't use it for effect; I think most don't even realize they're using profanity. 

Truly, it is the attitude that speaking out about it's use is an attempt to censor and an attack on their "rights" that I can't abide.


quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Michael


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## Mr. Di Liberti (Jan 24, 2006)

The use of vulgarity by others does not offend, nor does it upset me personally.

As I rarely speak a profane word these days, on the rare occasion which I do, it's noticed, and it has impact (thats the point).

I honestly believe that every aspect of our demeanor is the result of a personal choice, or a number choices we've made along the way. We act and speak in the manner that will gain us acceptance within the social circle(s) which we care affiliate. Ignorance is a choice as well.

While leaving work one day I said, "Gentlemen... have a wwonderful evening" as I crossed paths with a number of fellow employee's. One of my co-workers looked at me and asked "who are you calling gentlemen?", to which I replied, "I call you gentlemen not so much because you are, but because I am".

I dropped out of school when I was 14 years old, and my demeanor is a matter of choice.

Anthony

Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage ~ Theodore Roosevelt


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

When we refer to certain words as being "coarse" or "vulgar", it seems as though most people go by the "sex and excrement" rule, i.e., words are vulgar if they relate to sexual or bodily waste functions. Is that pretty much where the line is drawn for most people?


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_. . . [W]ords are vulgar if they relate to sexual or bodily waste functions. . . .


Blasphemy, too, is offensive and, even today, rare in polite company (though I don't see Christians or Jews torching embassies or killing foreigners; perhaps some of those believers think that God is big enough to take care of himself).


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by rws_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But you can't objectively identify something as "blasphemous"; blasphemy lies in the interpretation of the listener.


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