# Men's handbag



## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

Since I was tired of stuffing wallet, keys, cellphones, sunglasses and other indispensable items in my pockets or asking my wife to take them in her purse I finally decided to buy one of these: https://www.bally.com/item/store/BALLY/tskay/9E967278/rr/1/cod10/45158866PU/areaid//sts/ .

What is the general opinion on "men's handbags" on this forum?


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Don't know about the forum. Men's handbags are good where I am. That Bally looks fine to me.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL Can't say we see a lot of those on here in Hoosierville (on this side of the pond! ), but I must admit, reading the OP's words makes me almost wish for a return of the "fanny pack." A man bag out here could get me it trouble!


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## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

If you need a murse (man purse) you are carrying too much stuff.
Think about your favorite films, now think about the leading actor, now think about the leading actor carrying a murse. Does is work for him? If not it is a bad idea.

I couldn't view the site at this time (internet issue). I do remember the murse craze in Europe in the mid to late 70's.


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## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL Can't say we see a lot of those on here in Hoosierville (on this side of the pond! ), but I must admit, reading the OP's words makes me almost wish for a return of the "fanny pack." A man bag out here could get me it trouble!


I know what you mean. Around here you have to be quite self confident and sure about your masculinity to pull of wearing such a thing. That was why I hesitated so long and I was expecting negative comments by my family members (father, brother and brother in law, which are a bunch of homophobic ********). But nothing so far.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

mrp said:


> *If you need a murse (man purse) you are carrying too much stuff.
> *


Thing is where I am from what I've seen, many men do carry around quite a lot of stuff, like keys, one or two cellphones(some Android phones can be rather large these days), banknotes(sometimes large amounts), facewipes, male manicure set, comb, deodorant and toilet paper(because you have to BYO).


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## Aussie (Aug 8, 2011)

Thomas Martin said:


> Since I was tired of stuffing wallet, keys, cellphones, sunglasses and other indispensable items in my pockets or asking my wife to take them in her purse I finally decided to buy one of these: https://www.bally.com/item/store/BALLY/tskay/9E967278/rr/1/cod10/45158866PU/areaid//sts/ .
> 
> What is the general opinion on "men's handbags" on this forum?


Good GOD man; don't do it!

Not enough words to say how hideous that man-purse looks!

While I respect youre diversity and all; a gentleman does not carry a purse!

The phrase "wouldn't be caught dead" comes to mind!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I use a messenger bag, daily. It is a beautiful rich brown leather. The proportions and construction, I believe, disallow any accusations of femininity. The item is primarily utilitarian, my commute demands a container with the ability to be 'hands free' as required. However as with all leather products of reasonable quality it is a charming object in and of itself.


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

Shaver said:


> I use a messenger bag, daily. It is a beautiful rich brown leather. The proportions and construction, I believe, disallow any accusations of femininity. The item is primarily utilitarian, my commute demands a container with the ability to be 'hands free' as required. However as with all leather products of reasonable quality it is a charming object in and of itself.


I carry this sometimes. I don't "wear" it.

_Blackhawk Advanced Tactical Briefcase_​



​


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Shaver said:


> I use a messenger bag, daily. It is a beautiful rich brown leather. The proportions and construction, I believe, disallow any accusations of femininity. The item is primarily utilitarian, *my commute demands a container with the ability to be 'hands free' as required.*


Shaver I take it you have to use crowded standing room only public transport for your commute. Which is what have to do sometimes. A briefcase is nice, but you have to carry it. One hand holding the case and other holding the handrail or strap. Third hand holding the umbrella. 
However for my commute I use a rucksack, because I'm usually carrying a laptop, a projector and some textbooks.



Shaver said:


> IHowever as with all leather products of reasonable quality it is a charming object in and of itself.


I like that bag, very stylish and gentlemanly.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

dks202 said:


> I carry this sometimes. I don't "wear" it.
> 
> _Blackhawk Advanced Tactical Briefcase_​
> 
> ...


Very L. Paul "Jerry" Bremer III ...


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Have you thought about a fannypack?


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## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

Although I cannot view your link at present, I would say that any item, no matter what its construction, which is the size of a purse or small/medium ladies handbag is to be avoided...it just looks feminine

Men are stuck with either no bag or a bigger bag. Its just one of those things.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ Haffman's hit the nail on the head. +1


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

dks202 said:


> I carry this sometimes. I don't "wear" it.
> 
> _Blackhawk Advanced Tactical Briefcase_​




Hmm, well, as currently I ply my trade in a metropolitan office and not Helmand province then I may yet opt in continuance to 'use' (not wear) my messenger bag :icon_smile_wink:​



​


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> ^ Haffman's hit the nail on the head. +1


oh, both of you exasperate me.


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## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

Shaver said:


> oh, both of you exasperate me.


Dont blame the messenger! As CuffDaddy would say, 'rules is rules' :icon_smile_wink:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Haffman said:


> Dont blame the messenger! As CuffDaddy would say, 'rules is rules' :icon_smile_wink:


rather I should blame the messenger bag, eh? :icon_smile:


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Howard said:


> Have you thought about a fannypack?


Meh....a sporran has much more style.

Tassels optional.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

MikeDT said:


> Shaver I take it you have to use crowded standing room only public transport for your commute. Which is what have to do sometimes. A briefcase is nice, but you have to carry it. One hand holding the case and other holding the handrail or strap. Third hand holding the umbrella.
> However for my commute I use a rucksack, because I'm usually carrying a laptop, a projector and some textbooks.
> 
> I like that bag, very stylish and gentlemanly.


Hello MikeDT, it's not neccesarily always 'standing room only' but with my mega-latte in one hand and the constant* presenting of a travel pass.......

*how many ticket inspectors do you *really* need Manchester Piccadilly station!?! Grrrr


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## Rolex Luthor (Jan 5, 2009)

Thomas Martin said:


> What is the general opinion on "men's handbags" on this forum?


Is it April Fool's Day again already? This plus the "groin discomfort" thread make me wonder.


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## Mox (May 30, 2012)

I think Shaver has the right idea in the formal realm with a high-quality messenger bag. I try to avoid commenting negatively on items already purchased, but I think the strap on the Bally would not sync well with business wear, while the black leather bag itself seems out-of-place with clothing that the Tac briefcase would be suited for. Overall the unit seems to be a self-contradiction in design.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

I still have my father's old doctor's bag from the 50s and mine from 1972 somewhere. Neither looks at all like a murse but the old one is three times bigger than the newer one. The small one would easily hold every thing above and no one would ever think it gay--but a doctor making a house call in 2012 would draw some stares on the street. I still make the odd house call, but I carry a big flight case and let onlookers assume I'm a pilot.


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

You're carrying too much crap. 

If you have professional accoutrements, diplomatic dispatches, or deliveries, get a brief case or a messenger bag as appropriate. Do not every carry that thing you linked.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

One can only hope the OP is having a little bit of fun with us. Seriously?


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

Men often carry brief cases or attache cases. When I was working, I did, and never thought about it. The difficulty is that these seem to be appropriate only in certain setting. At a bar or restaurant during the work day or at rush hour or on a plane, it's an attache case. At an evening show or concert or cocktail party where one wouldn't be expected to be carrying a laptop or business papers, it becomes a purse.


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## Fashion Frank (Jul 14, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> A man bag out here could get me it trouble!


I really got a chuckle out of that remark !

On the one hand ,I would think that if perhaps your a guy on the go a "jetsetter " for lack of a better term ( busy executive/ mover and shaker ) you might need something like that ,but on the other hand as members have pointed out , if you need something like that ,your perhaps carring too much stuff.

I must also admit that for myself ,I don't think I'm secure enough in my own masculinity ( insert laughter here  ) to pull it off, but I also look at it this way ,if it works for you , and you don't care what people think ( I'm like that ) then go for it.

All the Best , Frank


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## Aussie (Aug 8, 2011)

Balfour said:


> ^ Haffman's hit the nail on the head. +1


+2 --- don't do it!


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

I may be old-school, but to me a grown man has these daily options...
- A wallet or money-clip in his pants-pockets.
- Pen, phone, and keys in his (interior) suit/sportcoat pockets.
- Everything else in the business case - be it brief or attache. No backpacks, fanny-belts shoulder straps - a man's business case is carried, not worn... we're not schoolboys.

My feeling is that if you feel it's awkward to have your business case someplace, it's because you're somewhere where you're not SUPPOSED to bring a business case! 

PS - FWIW my wife often utilizes MY jacket pockets for her sundries do to a penchant for tiny evening bags. That's meant some very interesting recovery bags at the dry cleaners. :redface:


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

If groceries, then at best I might carry a canvas tote to transport them, but otherwise it's going to be a knapsack (canvas w/leather straps, preferably) or business-style laptop bag. Anything else is for the valet to deal with.


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## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

Grayson said:


> I may be old-school, but to me a grown man has these daily options...
> - A wallet or money-clip in his pants-pockets.
> - Pen, phone, and keys in his (interior) suit/sportcoat pockets.
> - Everything else in the business case - be it brief or attache. No backpacks, fanny-belts shoulder straps - a man's business case is carried, not worn... we're not schoolboys.
> ...


That's the point. Old school (which I am) and grown (which I am too) or not, bulging pants and coats with wallets, cell phones and other stuff in them just look crappy and these items will ultimately ruin them. I feel fine with that purse of mine and it feels great having nothing whatsoever stuffed in my pockets. I can highly recommend it and we're not talking about walking around in a dress in public after all, are we? But the moment my primary sexual organs begin to fall off, I will post a warning.:icon_smile:


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Oh, wow, he was serious.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Thomas Martin said:


> That's the point. Old school (which I am) and grown (which I am too) or not, bulging pants and coats with wallets, cell phones and other stuff in them just look crappy and these items will ultimately ruin them. I feel fine with that purse of mine and it feels great having nothing whatsoever stuffed in my pockets. I can highly recommend it and we're not talking about walking around in a dress in public after all, are we? But the moment my primary sexual organs begin to fall off, I will post a warning.:icon_smile:


Solid Gold +1 award to be presented to that man! 
You can carry it in your bag, Thomas.

The notion that a bag might be referred to as a man-bag, a murse, and what have you, is *very* GQ.


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## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

As a very wise man is known to say : "Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law"


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Thomas Martin said:


> .... I was expecting negative comments by my family members (father, brother and brother in law, which are a bunch of homophobic ********)....


"Son, c'mere, what's this I hear you been saying about me?" :icon_smile_wink:


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

Gentlemen, not liking a man-bag doesn't make one homophobic any more than using one makes one gay.

My own opinion is that it's a slightly silly and affected look, and so something I avoid along with rolled-up skinny jeans and t-shirts with scarves.


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## Big T (Jun 25, 2010)

PS - FWIW my wife often utilizes MY jacket pockets for her sundries do to a penchant for tiny evening bags. That's meant some very interesting recovery bags at the dry cleaners. :redface:[/QUOTE said:


> You got it wrong Grasshopper! When I have too much stuff, it goes in wifey-pooh's purse (except for anything that could pass for cash or credit!!).


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

That's a lot of money. You could get a decent pair of shoes for that much.


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## Aussie (Aug 8, 2011)

$395.00 euro!! 

You're kidding! O:

Yikes!


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Thomas Martin said:


> That's the point. Old school (which I am) and grown (which I am too) or not, bulging pants and coats with wallets, cell phones and other stuff in them just look crappy and these items will ultimately ruin them.


I usually carry a phone, a wallet, ONE key (my car key... large rings of keys are for janitors) and a few business cards. Anything else is kept in my car, or I carry a briefcase if I need to have more business tools and/or paperwork for a meeting.

If one's phone makes a jacket pocket bulge, get another phone! And there is no need to always carry so many items in a wallet that it would make a pocket bulge. (...I've already addressed the keys.)

Personally, I would be more concerned about a bag constantly hanging over my shoulder ruining my jacket, than a cell phone in the breast pocket.
As for the look, please forgive me for saying so, but I personally find that particular bag hideous.

....You opened the thread with a request for opinions. I hope you were sincere in your request, rather than merely looking for validation of your own opinion.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> I usually carry a phone, a wallet, ONE key (my car key... large rings of keys are for janitors) and a few business cards. Anything else is kept in my car, or I carry a briefcase if I need to have more business tools and/or paperwork for a meeting.
> 
> If one's phone makes a jacket pocket bulge, get another phone! And there is no need to always carry so many items in a wallet that it would make a pocket bulge. (...I've already addressed the keys.)
> 
> ...


Hello Checkerboard, large bunches of keys are indeed for janitors. :smile:

A bag does not constantly hang over the shoulders though, just whilst in transit. That's how I choose to use mine at least....


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## vladimir7922 (May 24, 2012)

mrp said:


> If you need a murse (man purse) you are carrying too much stuff.
> Think about your favorite films, now think about the leading actor, now think about the leading actor carrying a murse. Does is work for him? If not it is a bad idea.


My favorite leading actor could probably rely on a convenient payphone, whereas I have to have my cellphone handy. Of course, the cellphone alone isn't too bulky to slip into a pocket, but add sunglasses, a collapsible umbrella, etc., and a bag starts to make sense.

OP, I have the larger, messenger-bag version of your purse, which I much prefer. But they share a clean, minimalist design that complements most attire. It's a pretty common accoutrement here. Just carry it with confidence-it's a good look.


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## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> I usually carry a phone, a wallet, ONE key (my car key... large rings of keys are for janitors) and a few business cards. Anything else is kept in my car, or I carry a briefcase if I need to have more business tools and/or paperwork for a meeting.
> 
> If one's phone makes a jacket pocket bulge, get another phone! And there is no need to always carry so many items in a wallet that it would make a pocket bulge. (...I've already addressed the keys.)
> 
> ...


I'm in the same boat as Chrbd 13 ( I do have more than one key, but they fit well in my suit coat/sport coat pocket), wallet has been slimmed down to a Mitchell money clip (thanks to TGT).


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## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> I usually carry a phone, a wallet, ONE key (my car key... large rings of keys are for janitors) and a few business cards. Anything else is kept in my car, or I carry a briefcase if I need to have more business tools and/or paperwork for a meeting.
> 
> If one's phone makes a jacket pocket bulge, get another phone! And there is no need to always carry so many items in a wallet that it would make a pocket bulge. (...I've already addressed the keys.)
> 
> ...


Every opinion is very much appreciated, but that does not necessary mean that I have to agree with it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL. 
...and how many of us carried brief bags/cases for much of adult lives and presuming ourselves to be only the manliest of men, daily carried in them the very items detailed in the OP. My favorite bag, prior to retirement, was (and still is, for that matter!) a soft brown leather Tumi satchel. The design of such accessories should not be presumed to define us; nor should the judgement of others! How we, respectively comport ourselves should be what primarily does that.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Thomas Martin said:


> That's the point. Old school (which I am) and grown (which I am too) or not, bulging pants and coats with wallets, cell phones and other stuff in them just look crappy and these items will ultimately ruin them. I feel fine with that purse of mine and it feels great having nothing whatsoever stuffed in my pockets. I can highly recommend it and we're not talking about walking around in a dress in public after all, are we? But the moment my primary sexual organs begin to fall off, I will post a warning.:icon_smile:


The less stuff you have in your pants pocket the better.


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## andrel42 (Sep 7, 2011)

I avoid having anything but cash and a small pocket knife (when not travelling) in my pockets. Most of the time I have a small briefcase with me with essentials including keys, mobile phone, sunglasses, iPad and a few other bits and pieces. I have been very happy with this Boconi Hendrix briefcase for the past few months as opposed to a heavier hard case that I carried before. Hope this helps!


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

I thrifted a great leather Coach softcase that I take when I travel. It holds everything I need and is still masculine looking with its gold-tone brass hardware. It looks very much like a soft body briefcase, I don't know if there's a name for that. It also has a shoulder strap, but no one would ever call it a man purse.
I would look ridiculous with a man purse, or whatever you wanna call it, so I'll go with my case, or a briefcase, or even one of those cool backpacks that Orvis sells.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

A lot of this thread seems to have revolved around what is "manly" or "effeminate". While I hear what eagle2250 says, there is no getting away from the fact that certain forms of dress and accessories are gender-specific. For my part, the OP's bag and Shaver's messenger bag fall on very different sides of that line.

But the dog that hasn't barked - to my mind - is, regardless of what is manly or effeminate, the OP's bag is very fashion-forward. That alone would rule it out for me.


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## SocraticLove (May 15, 2012)

Balfour said:


> A lot of this thread seems to have revolved around what is "manly" or "effeminate". While I hear what eagle2250 says, there is no getting away from the fact that certain forms of dress and accessories are gender-specific. For my part, the OP's bag and Shaver's messenger bag fall on very different sides of that line.
> 
> But the dog that hasn't barked - to my mind - is, regardless of what is manly or effeminate, the OP's bag is very fashion-forward. That alone would rule it out for me.


There is no doubt that certain forms of dress and accessories are gender-specific but gendered norms are contingent matters; they need not be what they are.

The truth is that we live in a society beholden to gendered norms and correlative notions about masculinity and feminity, and anyone who doesn't fit within the restrictive categories dictated by such norms may potentially be marginalized.

Now, I'm not against the existence of gendered norms per se; I am against them, however, if and when they lead to instances of marginalization and ostracization. And this, unfortunatley, is all too common nowadays. I am against this idea that somehow a man's worth and value in a society is dictated by the extent to which they match up to historically contingent notions about what "counts" as masculine.

So, while I personally would not avail myself of the kind of bag the OP links to in his post, I support his right to wear it and hope that untoward attitudes and judgements towards him wouldn't follow from it while he is out in the "real world". But that's not the reality we live in, in 2012.

"Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law" is the saying of one esteemed member on this forum and I will be the second person in this thread to happily and publicly defer to the wisdom of this statement.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> A lot of this thread seems to have revolved around what is "manly" or "effeminate". While I hear what eagle2250 says, there is no getting away from the fact that certain forms of dress and accessories are gender-specific. For my part, the OP's bag and Shaver's messenger bag fall on very different sides of that line.
> 
> But the dog that hasn't barked - to my mind - is, regardless of what is manly or effeminate, the OP's bag is very fashion-forward. That alone would rule it out for me.


Mr B; might I implore you to benignantly relieve me of this tension? Which portion of the masculine/feminine divide does my bag exist within? :icon_pale:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Explication; once I had genuine cause to utilise a briefcase in professional capacity. The requirement was for files, and so on and so forth, to be transported between my home and my place of business, plus to facilitate any appointments in between those two locations. Now, not so. The ubiquity of computer access nodes and portable electronic data storage has evaporated this necessity. Now I shuttle merely personal effects exclusively. It would seem to me somewhat fradulent to convey such fripperies in so stately a carriage. Thus a less grand container is the choice with which I am comfortable.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ @ Shaver: While noting your tongue-in-cheek tone, the right side. I don't object to a bag with shoulder strap. I have a soft leather Italian briefcase with a shoulder strap, which is a nice compromise between the practical and the aesthetic. I commute on the tube, and being able to have both hands free is nothing to be sniffed at (especially when one doesn't get a seat, but still wants to read a book). If I travelled by private car, then I would probably use the top-frame briefcase I keep in the office for more formal occasions.

I'm a little too old-fashioned and set in my ways to engage with the sociological essay immediately above Shaver's post. I don't post here to debate what 'gender norms' should be - it seems a little removed from the focus of clothing fora.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Fedora, bullwhip, leather jacket, and revolver optional...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Shaver said:


> Mr B; might I implore you to benignantly relieve me of this tension? Which portion of the masculine/feminine divide does my bag exist within? :icon_pale:



Not presuming to speak for Mr Balfour, but the messenger bag seems to me to be about as manly as they come...sharing an ancestral design with the leather and canvas satchels carried by military runners during the first "great war," WWI! As you may recall, those fellows with the satchel were dispatched by their commanders to deliver critical communications to the "General." While their comrades in arms enjoyed the relative security of the bottom of their respective trench, these hardy and extraordinarily brave lads took their messenger bag and further exposed themselves to the savagery of the enemy fire, as they carried out their mission! I can't imagine that it can get much more manly than that! 

PS: The messenger bag you presented in an earlier post for the memberships consideration was a particularly handsome example of the design...great patina!


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## Fashion Frank (Jul 14, 2012)

Fashion Frank said:


> I must also admit that for myself ,I don't think I'm secure enough in my own masculinity ( insert laughter here  ) to pull it off, but I also look at it this way ,if it works for you , and you don't care what people think ( I'm like that ) then go for it .


I hope that I was not misunderstood , I have nothing against a man carring or "wearing " one like that if it helps him "get thru his busy day. "

But as I quote myself here its to again reinterate ,that I just don't think I could pull it off and I agree with Balfour about how in a way men have carried these things ,I must also admit that I like the look of Shavers bag.

All the Best ,Frank


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## Douglas Brisbane Gray (Jun 7, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> Meh....a sporran has much more style.
> 
> Tassels optional.


I see you and raise you, Or do you think it is too over the top?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Douglas Brisbane Gray said:


> I see you and raise you, Or do you think it is too over the top?


Yes It's way over the top.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I think it's best to have less stuff in your pants pocket. Carry keys on your belt clip/cell phone, money in your wallet, maybe some other accessories such as a comb, gum or a small bottle of cologne for that just in case. You also don't want your pants to feel all bulky when walking down the street.


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

The only issue I have is with the damage, over time, the bag strap may do to the jacket's shoulder.



Shaver said:


> Explication; once I had genuine cause to utilise a briefcase in professional capacity. The requirement was for files, and so on and so forth, to be transported between my home and my place of business, plus to facilitate any appointments in between those two locations. Now, not so. The ubiquity of computer access nodes and portable electronic data storage has evaporated this necessity. Now I shuttle merely personal effects exclusively. It would seem to me somewhat fradulent to convey such fripperies in so stately a carriage. Thus a less grand container is the choice with which I am comfortable.


I think this is well put.


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## Mox (May 30, 2012)

"Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law" originates from one Aleister Crowley, promoting the idea that one must follow one's true self. Our forum-mate also appears to forward this ideal.

If carrying a bag is being true to yourself, carry a bag, the world and any internal mental chatter be... well, ignored.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Jake Genezen said:


> The only issue I have is with the damage, over time, the bag strap may do to the jacket's shoulder.


Quite right. Modern public transport affords no ideal solution - everything is a compromise: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...-transport-dilemma&highlight=public+transport


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## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

The manliest bag on the planet is without any doubt the dragnet by Freitag (www.freitag.ch). It's made of truck tarpaulins and security belts (mine is gray and black and still smells of motor oil). How can it get more masculine?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> ....... the messenger bag seems to me to be about as manly as they come...sharing an ancestral design with the leather and canvas satchels carried by military runners during the first "great war," WWI! As you may recall, those fellows with the satchel were dispatched by their commanders to deliver critical communications to the "General." While their comrades in arms enjoyed the relative security of the bottom of their respective trench, these hardy and extraordinarily brave lads took their messenger bag and further exposed themselves to the savagery of the enemy fire, as they carried out their mission! I can't imagine that it can get much more manly than that!


Thank you Mr Balfour; I am relieved (honestly, no levity - in accent or otherwise!) that you share the value of, and indeed own, a bag with shoulder strap.

Eagle2250, what a *truly* delightful and convincing perspective you have provided. I must advise that I will be obliged to borrow your words in any future defense I am called upon to make of the bag.

Mox, as a point of interest the incredibly important suffix to AC's most famed maxim, and that which illuminates it most fluently is this: 'Love is the law, love under will'.


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## Mox (May 30, 2012)

I do not have extensive knowledge of AC, but enough to believe that he received a bum rap—even more so than Machiavelli, who was just trying to get a job.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Mox said:


> I do not have extensive knowledge of AC, but enough to believe that he received a bum rap-even more so than Machiavelli, who was just trying to get a job.


AC was undoubtedly one of England's superior original thinkers, but allow me to severely discourage anyone from pursuing gnosis of his ideas. His words, fine as they may be, are twice twisted and lay as baited traps for the unwary.


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## Mox (May 30, 2012)

Oh, _that_ reputation he assuredly deserves.


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## Fashion Frank (Jul 14, 2012)

*OK, Here is my "Man Bag ".*

Now that we are drifting into sporran land , here is mine worn ONLY with the band or playing a gig .

All the Best , Frank

P. S. this got me thinking of Sienfeild where Krammer dreams up the "manssiere " and the "bro" male bra


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

I find man bags to be very practical for me right now, so I approve of them. Plus, man bags can be quite nice. (My favorite man bag is a hand-stitched leather bag I bought from a small vendor)


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

So it appears I'm the only one here who actually likes the OP's Bally. IMO it certainly has more style than the usual, tacky, conspicuously branded, LV and Gucci ones I regularly see here.

BTW before I moved to China, I thought it was only Frenchmen who carried man bags.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

MikeDT said:


> So it appears I'm the only one here who actually likes the OP's Bally. IMO it certainly has more style than the usual, tacky, conspicuously branded, LV and Gucci ones I regularly see here.
> 
> BTW before I moved to China, I thought it was only Frenchmen who carried man bags.


I was okay with it, though it would be better without the cloth/nylon decoration. I also wish it was slightly bigger, since to my mind if one is going to have to deal with a bag, it might as well be large enough to account for eventualities like running into a used book store.


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## SocraticLove (May 15, 2012)

Balfour said:


> I'm a little too old-fashioned and set in my ways to engage with the sociological essay immediately above Shaver's post. I don't post here to debate what 'gender norms' should be - it seems a little removed from the focus of clothing fora.


No one comes here to debate what gender(ed) norms ought to be and if you read my post carefully, you'll see I wasn't trying to push the discussion in this thread in that direction. My post was about the contingent nature of gendered norms and how unfortunately, there is often a strong form of judgmentalism directed at those who don't fit into the restrictive categories imposed and defined by such norms.

Perhaps you didn't know it but you were already "doing sociology" when you emphasized the existence of gender-specific dress and accessories and proclaimed that Shaver's bag was on one side of a gender-defined line.

It's fine if you don't want to engage with the point(s) in my post but I find it slightly disrespectful for you to dismiss that post as just an abstract exercise in sociological reflection with no relevance to the issue at hand. After all, if anything, the sociological dimension to clothing and the wearing of it is almost indispensable in some ways to the discussion of clothing. For example, when we discuss sartorial traditions, in a sense that is just sociology.

I don't wish to press this issue any further. I was happy to say what I did and leave it at that but I did feel compelled to respond in light of the charge that my post was just a "sociological essay" and "far removed" from what should be discussed in clothing fora.

Other than that, I rather enjoy your posts, Balfour, and just want to say that this post of mine isn't motivated by any ill intent. I hope it doesn't come off as combative because it is not my intention for it to come off that way.

Cheers!



Shaver said:


> AC was undoubtedly one of England's superior original thinkers, but allow me to severely discourage anyone from pursuing gnosis of his ideas. His words, fine as they may be, are twice twisted and lay as baited traps for the unwary.


Is this the same Aleister Crowley who pushed the Thelema belief system? I must admit, I had never heard of him before this thread and so had no idea that he is the one who came up with the "Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law" phrase. I am happy to be enlightened on this point however, I'm rather surprised that you, Shaver, would consider this man one of England's _superior original thinkers_.

Again, I'll be honest in saying that I don't know much about the man and his intellectual corpus but from a somewhat cursory reading of what's on his Wikipedia page (I know, not ideal but it is probably sufficient here), surely he isn't in the same league as Bentham, Mill, Locke, Bacon, Ayer, and Sidgwick?

England has an absolutely glorious intellectual tradition and it seems a shame to tarnish that legacy by invoking the name of Aleister Crowley. Crowley was original, to be sure, although not in the best sense of the word.


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## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

MikeDT said:


> So it appears I'm the only one here who actually likes the OP's Bally. IMO it certainly has more style than the usual, tacky, conspicuously branded, LV and Gucci ones I regularly see here.
> 
> BTW before I moved to China, I thought it was only Frenchmen who carried man bags.


Above all, I bought this particular bag for practical reasons. I have several models of messenger bags that would surely be considered more "manly" in this forum. For business it's my laptop case most of the time and when shopping in town its my Freitag Messenger bag. There are many situations though where I carry neither of these two and that's were the smaller bag comes into play. It's large enough to carry my most basic items, that I don't want to stuff in my pockets, and where the messenger would be too roomy and out of place in such situations. What I needed thus was a smaller bag and I chose this particular model because I liked it's simple and basic design (which is a matter of taste) and the very good qualitiy of the materials and the manufacturing (made in Switzerland!). It came never into my mind to make a statement, fashionwise, or to want to challenge or proof my masculinity. What surprised me in this discussion is the fact that some would find it effeminate just because of it's size (most girls that I see walking around carry huge bags) and I'm still convinced that no one in his right mind would actually mistake this particular design for a woman's purse. It's a cultural thing I guess. As Mike pointed out, here in Europe (France, Switzerland and Italy) it's not so uncommon to see men walking around with small bags or purses.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

SocraticLove said:


> No one comes here to debate what gender(ed) norms ought to be and if you read my post carefully, you'll see I wasn't trying to push the discussion in this thread in that direction. My post was about the contingent nature of gendered norms and how unfortunately, there is often a strong form of judgmentalism directed at those who don't fit into the restrictive categories imposed and defined by such norms.
> 
> Perhaps you didn't know it but you were already "doing sociology" when you emphasized the existence of gender-specific dress and accessories and proclaimed that Shaver's bag was on one side of a gender-defined line.
> 
> ...


If I may (and Mr. Balfour may run me through for this liberty of presumption) but it has been illustrated that my esteemed fellow member is not so disposed to the less focussed arcs of conversation that some of us chaps enjoy. As a neutral reader I would dispute that Mr. B's assertion contained dismissiveness - merely bald, yet politely expressed, purpose.

AC is inevitably one of England's superlative original thinkers, whichever the league may be that his reputation is directed to compete in. Selfishness and vanity and even a measure of stupidity informing a deal of his pursuits, notwithstanding. Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.

As an amusing aside: are you aware that Crowley is almost certainly the grandfather of George W. Bush? _Seriously._


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

I find sociology an unexciting discipline. If sociologists want to treat commonsense observations about the world as 'doing sociology' that is their outlook. As another contributor has noted, my post conveyed that I have no interest in pursuing a debate on gender politics (or the acceptability or not of judgments based on adherence to 'gender norms'). If I did, I would dispute the modern, politically correct prejudice against those who believe in adherence to tradition (on the basis of a thesis that people's subjective choices should be treated as equally valid). But, as I say, this is not a debate I wish to pursue: it is trite, tired and there is rarely a meeting of minds; as a result, I find it soporific.

As for the alleged "disrespectful" nature of my post, some might find the reply to be somewhat condescending. But perhaps we should leave matters to rest there.

More generally, we live in the real world. People will form judgments about us based on how we dress, how we comport ourselves, etc. If someone dressed in a purple velvet odd jacket, ruffled cravat and wore eyeliner, some would find this effete costume.(*) Equally, ******** would probably form the same view of my suit, grenadine tie, pocket square, brown homburg and umbrella. And the "yoof" [sic] would think me staid.(**) It really depends on whether you care about what people think, and what message you want to communicate to the world. I suspect most of us care about what some people think some of the time!

But I am wittering on about the blindingly obvious, so I will now retire from this thread.

(*) For an example of this sort of dress, see:









EDIT: (**) This reminds me of this film: 



.


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## wrwhiteknight (Mar 20, 2012)

Wear a bag _if you need one_. I don't think you do.

My first day at the office I was told a story about a self-repped opposing party who fancied himself a lawyer (but decidedly was not one), who showed up to each meeting and to court every day for the relevant 5 day period with quite a sharp and traditional barristers brief case; weathered looking but of impeccable quality.

When the judge turned on the man and shot quite a zinger, the man fumbled with his pockets and looked at the floor, the wall and then swung his hand around to reply with vigour, and he knocked over his bag......which was empty, except for the lone granola bar that skidded across the floor.

The man lost. I mean, he was a self-rep, but really, the granola bar didn't help.

This story was of course completely irrelevant, but so is all the "homosexual vs. metrosexual vs. feminine vs. masculine" dialogue thus far.

If you need a bag, purchase one that will not require you ask a question about it on this forum, then you will know it is the bag for you.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ Love this story. To digress even further, it reminds me of a wine tasting I attended at University many years ago. There was a very disagreeable, pompous young fogey there(*) who had brought his own tasting glasses in a little leather pouch, and was commending loudly the merits of the vintage. I normally think schadenfreude is an unworthy emotion, but I felt a little when the gentleman hosting the tasting got up to apologise that the particular wine in question was corked.

(*) I am not anti-young fogeys - many of my friends were of this ilk, but agreeable and generally not too pompous.


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## paololital (Jul 26, 2012)

I use a leather and canvas messangers bag very similar to Shaver's one, for work. I have to use a shoulder strap, mving often on two wheels - bicycle, Vespa or motorcycle. I also like, being the germophobic I sometimes am, the ability of not having to put the bag on the ground whenever I need to use my hands.
Here in Italy you will see men of all ages wearing "murses" of all shapes and colours with any type of outfit. I don't wear them and generally dislike them, although I found a few of them, on the smaller side and made of all-leahter, rather pretty.
I do consider them efficient though. The fact is that the modern man tends to carry more objects on him than his grandfathers did, and this objects take up space. Moreover, carrying too much weight on your hips is not advisable from an orthopedic point of view. When not carrying a briefcase or other work bag, we just stuff things in our pockets, and that is fine if it is just 2 or 3 items, but some people carry a LOT of stuff on themselves. Like:
wallet
cell phone 1
cell phone 2/pager
house keys
car keys with that huge floating key-ring your wife's mother gave you 
workplace keys
sunglasses (in hard case, otherwise they'll scratch)
reading glasses (same as the avbove)
cigarettes/pipe+tobacco
Zippo lighter/matches
Fisherman's Friends/mints/gums/whateverer
chapstick
comb
prescription pills
iPod/mp3 player
pen
business cards case
tissues
hand sanitizer
swiss army knife
usb pen
flask
1/2 Lbs. of change

What I've done before, if I needed more than usual stuff and did not have the space for it (and wearing a casual outfit), is I slinged a fanny pack across my chest. Not very GQ, I know, but it got the job done.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

paololital said:


> What I've done before, if I needed more than usual stuff and did not have the space for it (and wearing a casual outfit), is I slinged a fanny pack across my chest. Not very GQ, I know, but it got the job done.


Sounds pretty GQ to me.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

FLCracka said:


> Sounds pretty GQ to me.


fannypacks aren't GQ.


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## mr.scruff (Jul 17, 2012)

I can see no need to carry anything more than a wallet, iphone, keys and change. No man needs more than this. 
Your list sound more like the contents of a womans purse than a man's pockets.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Howard said:


> fannypacks aren't GQ.


Howard, what does GQ mean to you, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Sober (Jul 31, 2012)

*Just one's opinion*

Hello, this is my very first comment so I apologise in advance if I make mistakes (I've read the Forum Rules carefully though).

As Haffman already said, I believe that, as a general rule, men should use either a relatively big size bag or no bag at all.

Having said that, each man has his own needs and may need to carry items that other men will seldom or never use. I think we should be mindful or that.

In my particular case, I can see three main scenarios:

- Going to the office:
In addition to my wallet, house keys, mobile phone and a couple of tissues (my "essentials"), stored in the pockets of my suit or odd jacket, I carry a brown leather briefcase which usually contains some of these items: a small diary; a few documents; home-made lunch; clothes inside a plastic bag for jogging three times a week during my lunch break (the footwear stays in my office closet); other various items. I fully admit that using a briefcase to carry those items is not very honest so I admire Shaver's decision to use a messenger's bag.

- Weekends/holidays:
I seldom need to carry anything else than my "essentials". Even in the heat of the summer, those items fit in my trouser's pockets but if I absolutely need to carry something else I'll force myself to use a over-shirt or a jacket, which provides extra pockets.

- Leisure travelling:
In addition to my "essentials", I may need to carry other items such as water, a guide and/or a map, a camera, a foldable raincoat, etc. If they don't fit in my overcoat or it is too hot to wear one, I'll use a backpack/rucksack.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

mr.scruff said:


> I can see no need to carry anything more than a wallet, iphone, keys and change. No man needs more than this.
> Your list sound more like the contents of a womans purse than a man's pockets.


Lipstick, sanitary products, compact, spare tights, perfume? Nope. I don't see any of the items normally to be considered as 'female specific' purse contents in the lists.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

mr.scruff said:


> I can see no need to carry anything more than a wallet, iphone, keys and change. No man needs more than this.
> Your list sound more like the contents of a womans purse than a man's pockets.


exactly, How much does one guy need to carry in one day?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

FLCracka said:


> Howard, what does GQ mean to you, if you don't mind me asking?


It means style, fashion and looking good nice and neat without flaws.


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