# 2010 World Cup



## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Ok so I know the times zones vary but who is bleary eyed from staying up watching the football?

My son and I watched the Netherlands V Denmark last night at a relatively early time of 9.30pm as for Oz V Germany thank god I didn't get up for that. As the old saying goes don't mention the war, oops, four.

Oh well at least we beat the Poms in the Rugby now if only we could find a front row who can scrummage correctly.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

ajo said:


> Ok so I know the times zones vary but who is bleary eyed from staying up watching the football?
> 
> Oh well at least we beat the Poms in the Rugby now if only we could find a front row who can scrummage correctly.


No just fed up with vuvuzela noise.

Germany v Australia was a difficult one. Many Brits wanted both sides to lose. Cahil was very unlucky with the red card but the Mexican referee is notorious for sending people off. He also looks like one of Brylcream's best customers.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

It was the inconsistency that annoyed me; Cahill sent off for an inocuous tackle, then 5 minutes later an almost identical tackle is only a free kick!
Anyway, was it Germany or Poland that the Antipodeans were playing?


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Chouan said:


> Anyway, was it Germany or Poland that the Antipodeans were playing?


Germany, though Podolski and the big striker are Polish born. The Brazilian striker did not look German though.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Chouan said:


> Anyway, was it Germany or Poland that the Antipodeans were playing?


Australia were doing their imitation of Poland.

As for the vuvuzela noise its absurd, I watched the Super 14 final and it was this constant drone of angry bees. Bring back the singing.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I tried to watch it a couple of times but could only stand that constant buzzing noise for a few minutes. I doubt that I will try again.

Cruiser


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Having looked up the Polish/German players on Wiki, it seems that they're all from either Silesia or Pommerania, both of which were German until WW2, so they might have an excuse.......but only a very feeble one.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I'm rooting for England all the African teams this time.

Reflections so far
England and Italy as top teams have not impressed

Too many drawn games and too many boring non-attacking games.

Impressed so far by Germany, Paraguay, Nigeria, and South Africa. And of course Ghana with the first win for an African team.

The Europeans are probably in for the biggest world cup shock ever. 

Germany definitely in the final.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Chouan said:


> Having looked up the Polish/German players on Wiki, it seems that they're all from either Silesia or Pommerania, both of which were German until WW2, so they might have an excuse.......but only a very feeble one.


I don't know if you noticed when Klose and Podolski scored goals against Poland in the Euros in 08, but they were very subdued, no charging around cheering after scoring, just a clam walk away. It was commented on quite a lot at the time.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> Germany, though Podolski and the big striker are Polish born.


Klose


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

As a British expat in the PRC, World Cup is an interesting experience. Watching China Central TV 5 (CCTV5), but with commentary from ESPN radio on the internet as this is in English. 

Staying up till 4AM watching DPRK vs Brazil.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Some people say baseball is a boring game. In my opinion, soccer/football is almost as exciting as baseball.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

I salute the North Korean team.
Only 3 of their players play in teams outside their country, yet they gave the mighty Brazil a run for their money.
More importantly they did no diving or complaining to the referee. They took all challenges in their stride like real men.
An example of how the game used to be played and how it should be played in an ideal world.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Kingstonian said:


> I salute the North Korean team.
> Only 3 of their players play in teams outside their country, yet they gave the mighty Brazil a run for their money.
> More importantly they did no diving or complaining to the referee. They took all challenges in their stride like real men.
> An example of how the game used to be played and how it should be played in an ideal world.


Actually one of those DPRK players who you mention, Jong Tae-se states that he is playing for Zainichi, and not the DPRK. Zainichi according to him is a nation in Japan made up of 600,000 ethnic Koreans.

I wonder what glorious leader thinks of this?

Alas sporting teams once had solid links to the communities they represented, but then say 40 years sport was much more tribal than global, it was not a 24x7 media commodity, but then the marketing gurus discovered it could be turned into a machine for making money and the world was never the same. Football players of all codes had day jobs and weren't paid millions, and it didn't cost $110 in tickets for 2 adults and a child to see a Rugby match, OMG I am sounding nostalgic.


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## clotheshorse69 (Jun 4, 2010)

My predictions:

1. France
2. Italy
3. Germany
Fourth place will go to Russia or Argentina


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

clotheshorse69 said:


> My predictions:
> 
> 1. France
> 2. Italy
> ...


I think Spain(though they tend to underachieve) or Argentina and Brazil


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Apparently N.Korea sent about 30 fairly senior military people to S.Africa as N.Korean "supporters". One of them was interviewed and asked which was his favourite player. He replied that he "didn't actually know any of their names......"
It was sad that the two teams didn't shake hands, or even interact at all after the game.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

clotheshorse69 said:


> My predictions:
> 
> 1. France
> 2. Italy
> ...


France??? France will be lucky to get to the next stage let alone the final.

My prediction for the final will be a match up between two of the following: Spain, Germany, England, Brazil, Argentina


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Oh how the mighty have fallen, just finished 10 minutes Spain - Switzerland. Switzerland 1, Spain nil.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Plucky South Korea nick a late goal in the first half against Argentina.

I must visit New Malden for a Korean meal soon.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Before the first match I had Spain as winners outright - against either Argentina or Brazil in the final.

I'm not so sure now. The only team that actually looked as if they could do the business was Germany. Sure, they had the Aussies, but they were so clinical and efficient - they had the shape of champions about them.

I'm still for Spain though - for no other reason than I believe they have the most complete team and I've a few quid on them!

I love this!


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)




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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


>


I'm inclined to agree with him on this one......:icon_smile_wink:


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## clotheshorse69 (Jun 4, 2010)

Spain has so much potential. Then, they choke at the most crucial points.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Nice to see a team in green not get cheated out of a result against the French.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

I have to admit taking great pleasure watching France beaten so easily. Tonight, they really were an embarrasment to the World Cup, their country, their fans and themselves. 

They are by far the worst team in the competition.

May the fleas of a thousand camels infest their armpits. 

(Is that too strong?!)


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Viva Zapata!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Oh how sweet it is....

Ireland says thank you Mexico, and Up Yours France!!!

France 0 -2 Mexico


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

At the beginiing of this World Cup, and quite a time before it, when asked who I'd be supporting I initially said, "England & South Africa, but also the other the African nations, who are now playing some great football & giving the old school European and South American teams a run for their money". 

If I also now add New Zealand and Australia, I could just as well answer like this, 
"James, who are you supporting in the world cup?!" 
"The British Empire, sir, the British Empire!"


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*Vuvuzelas forever*

I can't really get into football or any professional sport, really. The charming music of the vuvuzela has proven to be quite an acquired taste for me. I can now hardly bear the silence without the ethereal din of this instrument.
BRrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

All credit to the Auntie through her use of noise filteration technology has managed to make watching a match with any volume bearable.

In other World Cup news the England team went to visit an orphanage in South Africa the other day. "It's good to put a smile of the faces of people with no hope, constantly struggling and facing the impossible" said Jamal Umboto aged 6.

Boom boom......


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

VictorRomeo said:


> All credit to the Auntie through her use of noise filteration technology has managed to make watching a match with any volume bearable.
> 
> In other World Cup news the England team went to visit an orphanage in South Africa the other day. "It's good to put a smile of the faces of people with no hope, constantly struggling and facing the impossible" said Jamal Umboto aged 6.
> 
> Boom boom......


Nice one!

And in unrelated news, I'd just like to report that after the The Specials giog yesterday we watched 20 minutes of the Flogging Molly gig. First time I'd ever heard them let alone seen them. Brilliant stuff, Irish folk-punk, the whole festival of several thousand punks and skinheads was hopping up and down to them. And the singer had a few choice words and a middle digit for France 

"Hello Sweden, lovely here, the sun in our faces, everyone having a good time? (cheers) Have you noticed that neither Sweden nor Ireland are in the World Cup, well I've a message for France .....bleeep bleep bleep bleep" Lots of cheering by the thousands of Swedes & handful of Irishmen present.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

If anyone still finds the sound of the vuvuzela annoying, here's how to greatly reduce it.

The horn is pitched at B-flat, which has a frequency of approximately 466 Hz. If you have a graphic equalizer in your system, turn down whichever frequency your has that is closest to it (there's usually one at 300 Hz, which will have a decent effect), but still below it (unless there's a very close one just above it). If you have a parametric equalizer in your system, you should be able to set one of the bands to 466, or close to it. I'm not sure how wide you need to make that band, but you can experiment to find out. You'll also want to reduce its harmonic frequency at 233 (or 235) Hz.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

JJR512 said:


> If anyone still finds the sound of the vuvuzela annoying, here's how to greatly reduce it.
> 
> The horn is pitched at B-flat, which has a frequency of approximately 466 Hz. If you have a graphic equalizer in your system, turn down whichever frequency your has that is closest to it (there's usually one at 300 Hz, which will have a decent effect), but still below it (unless there's a very close one just above it). If you have a parametric equalizer in your system, you should be able to set one of the bands to 466, or close to it. I'm not sure how wide you need to make that band, but you can experiment to find out. You'll also want to reduce its harmonic frequency at 233 (or 235) Hz.


Is that how the BBC are combating it, by frequency?


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

I would assume so, that's really the only way I know of to eliminate an ambient sound. Find its frequency and reduce its relative volume. They could also reduce the proportion of the overall crowd/field volume compared to announcer volume, but that, as indicated, would reduce the field noise, too.


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## PatentLawyerNYC (Sep 21, 2007)

JJR512 said:


> If anyone still finds the sound of the vuvuzela annoying, here's how to greatly reduce it.
> 
> The horn is pitched at B-flat, which has a frequency of approximately 466 Hz. If you have a graphic equalizer in your system, turn down whichever frequency your has that is closest to it (there's usually one at 300 Hz, which will have a decent effect), but still below it (unless there's a very close one just above it). If you have a parametric equalizer in your system, you should be able to set one of the bands to 466, or close to it. I'm not sure how wide you need to make that band, but you can experiment to find out. You'll also want to reduce its harmonic frequency at 233 (or 235) Hz.


If 466 Hz is the fundamental, wouldn't the harmonics be at 932 Hz, 1398 Hz, etc.? That would explain why it is so challenging to filter it out; there is lots of vocal content between 466 Hz and the second harmonic 1398 Hz.


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## sowilson (Jul 27, 2009)

If you're using a broad band eq then you'll filter a fair bit of vocal. I you use a tunable notch filter with a fairly narrow Q then you put a sharp spike in the response that will still sound fairly natural.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

PatentLawyerNYC said:


> If 466 Hz is the fundamental, wouldn't the harmonics be at 932 Hz, 1398 Hz, etc.? That would explain why it is so challenging to filter it out; there is lots of vocal content between 466 Hz and the second fundamental 1398 Hz.


I haven't studied audio engineering in some time, and even then, only casually. So my exact terminology may be off. But did you mean "second _harmonic_ at 1398"?

In any event, I'm not sure if 466 Hz is the fundamental or a harmonic. My uncertainty stems from ambiguous wording on the subject in my research sources, which indicate that the _frequency_ of B-flat is 466.164 Hz, no further technical specification being given. I suspect that 466.164 Hz is the fundamental, so to be honest, I'm not sure why my source (Wired.com) suggested attenuating the half-frequency, although they do refer to a video in which it seems to have an effect.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

sowilson said:


> If you're using a broad band eq then you'll filter a fair bit of vocal. I you use a tunable notch filter with a fairly narrow Q then you put a sharp spike in the response that will still sound fairly natural.


Right. Most graphic equalizers have a moderately wide band; I believe "tunable notch filter" is another term for "parametric equalizer" (an equalizer where one can adjust the gain, center frequency, and bandwidth or "Q").

If the equalization trick is not effective or not available, then if you have a surround-sound system, you may have another option. Reduce the volume of the left and right channels (and presumable the surround channels), where much of the crowd noise is, and boost the volume of the center channel, where the announcers' voices are located.


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## PatentLawyerNYC (Sep 21, 2007)

JJR512 said:


> I haven't studied audio engineering in some time, and even then, only casually. So my exact terminology may be off. But did you mean "second _harmonic_ at 1398"?
> 
> In any event, I'm not sure if 466 Hz is the fundamental or a harmonic. My uncertainty stems from ambiguous wording on the subject in my research sources, which indicate that the _frequency_ of B-flat is 466.164 Hz, no further technical specification being given. I suspect that 466.164 Hz is the fundamental, so to be honest, I'm not sure why my source (Wired.com) suggested attenuating the half-frequency, although they do refer to a video in which it seems to have an effect.


Sorry, typo--I meant second harmonic. Second fundamental doesn't make sense.

Hmm, I'm not familiar with the instrument but I wonder if the fundamental is 233 Hz and the first harmonic just happens to be very strong?


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Watched the Germany V Serbia last night. The second half was tense affair for the Serbs but the Balkan sprit held out against the Blitzkrieg mounted by Germany to walk away with the game. 

As for England it only gets better as the Wallabies play the Poms tonight (Oz time) in the Rugby.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Oh England is just fail...Well to be honest this is what I'm expecting of them. They get all hyped up, and then fail to perform on the night. Similar with the rugby and the cricket.

I'm also kind of expecting Marks & Sparks to have a load of leftover unsold official England suits.

https://www.marksandspencer.com/England-FA-Suit-Suits-Mens/b/426369031


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Indeed. It was pretty grim viewing. There's something wrong in that camp. Rooney is not a happy little bunny at all. Perhaps with their new boss being such a disciplinarian, he has their egos all-a-tither....


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

It was terrible and against a team like Algeria! I mean, on paper this is one of the youngest and most talented bunch of England players ever, but something just isn't gelling. They won't have an easy time in their third match at all.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

JJR512 said:


> If anyone still finds the sound of the vuvuzela annoying, here's how to greatly reduce it.


An easier way is to simply change the channel on the television and watch something else. Those stupid horns wouldn't be so bad if they had any correlation to the game. For example, fans of this or that team blew them when their team did something good, but to simply blow the things non-stop throughout the entire game is ridiculous.

I'm thinking of the infamous cowbells at Mississippi State football games. Fans don't come into the stadium and clang those things non-stop for the entire game. They clang them when they are celebrating something good that happened on the field. Thankfully Mississippi State hasn't been good enough in recent years for there to be that much good happening on the field for them so it has become something of a moot point. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

One thinks they're making a fuss about nothing with the vuvuzela. Is it really any worse than the continuous sound of compressed air horns one usually hears at European football matches? Such as the 2006 World Cup in Germany.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

MikeDT said:


> One thinks they're making a fuss about nothing with the vuvuzela. Is it really any worse than the continuous sound of compressed air horns one usually hears at European football matches? Such as the 2006 World Cup in Germany.


Yes it is much worse. 
Because 
1, those air horns aren't sounded constantly as are the vuvuzelas. 
2, also those compressed air cannisters run out very quickly. 
And 
3, they are usually sounded (as Crusier mentioned) with relevance to the game & the fans i.e. blasting out a fan chant or when a goal has been scored.

The vuvuzelas keep up a manually powered deafening din for 95 minutes! Players have problems hearing the ref's whistle and their manager's sideline instructions.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Sunday; Australia 1 v Ghana 1, Harry Kewell with a red card, and the Poms beat the Wallabies in the Union. "the Horror, the horror."


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

PatentLawyerNYC said:


> Hmm, I'm not familiar with the instrument but I wonder if the fundamental is 233 Hz and the first harmonic just happens to be very strong?


I've just done some additional research into it, and it seems that 233 Hz is indeed the fundamental.

Wikipedia identifies "B♭3" as the instrument's primary sound. I can read sheet music but was unfamiliar with the number in the note, and did some research on that. The number identifies which octave the note is in. The info I read indicated that A4 is at 440 Hz, so it stands to reason that the 466 Hz B♭ is also in the fourth octave. As you probably know, halving the frequency of a note gives you the same note on the next ocatve down, therefore 233 Hz should be B♭3...the note identified as the vuvuzela's sound.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

I've just been having lunch with a South African work colleague. I brought up the subject of the World Cup and the vuvuzela. It seems the continuous blowing of many vuvuzelas is a very common sound at football matches in SA, and doesn't cause any problems normally. Perhaps non-SA people are just not used to it.

BTW my colleague has as much confidence in SA winning as I have in England winning...which is *not a chance*.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> I've just been having lunch with a South African work colleague. I brought up the subject of the World Cup and the vuvuzela. It seems the continuous blowing of many vuvuzelas is a very common sound at football matches in SA, and doesn't cause any problems normally. Perhaps non-SA people are just not used to it.


Hmm...


> The vuvuzela has been subject to controversy as a result of its use by fans in football matches. The sound level of the instrument has been *measured at 127 decibels* contributing to football matches with dangerously high sound pressure levels for unprotected ears. According to the Hear The World Foundation extended exposure to the vuvuzela* can lead to permanent hearing loss*. A new model, however, announced on 14 June 2010, has a modified mouthpiece which is claimed to reduce the volume by 20 dB.


Note that 107 dB is still a dangerously high sound volume. Additionally, I saw a news/info piece on the vuvuzela on TV sometime in the last week, and they showed one being measured at 114 dB.



> Vuvuzelas have been controversial. They have been *associated with permanent noise-induced hearing loss* and cited as a possible safety risk when *spectators cannot hear evacuation announcements*, and they may spread colds and flu viruses on a greater scale than coughing or shouting. Vuvuzelas have also been blamed for drowning the sound and atmosphere of football games. Commentators have described the sound as "annoying" and "satanic" and compared it with "a stampede of noisy elephants", an elephant passing wind, "a deafening swarm of locusts", "a goat on the way to slaughter", and "a giant hive full of very angry bees".


Regarding its use in the 2009 FIFA Confederations Cup, also in South Africa:


> Prior to the start of the [2009] Confederations Cup, Netherlands coach Bert van Marwijk and Spanish midfielder Xabi Alonso called for a ban, with Alonso saying that the horns make it *hard for players to communicate and concentrate* while adding nothing to the atmosphere.


Regarding its use in the 2010 FIFA World Cup:


> During the opening ceremony the announcer had to ask fans using vuvuzelas to be quiet as he could not be heard.





> During the event many competitors have criticised and complained about the noise caused by the vuvuzela horns, including France's Patrice Evra who blamed the horns for the team's poor performance. He also claimed that the *sound of the vuvuzelas away from the stadiums hampered the ability of the players to get their rest*. Other critics include Lionel Messi who complained that the sound of the vuvuzelas *hampered communication among players on the pitch*, and broadcasting companies, who complained that commentators' voices were being drowned out by the sound. Portugal's Cristiano Ronaldo went on record to state that *the sound of the vuvuzelas disturbed the teams' concentration*.


Some who defend the vuvuzela say that it is a traditional South African instrument and is part of the culture. For example:


> Some commentators have defended the vuvuzela as being an integral and unique part of South African football culture and say it adds to the atmosphere of the game. BBC sports commentator Farayi Mungazi said the sound of the horn was the "recognised sound of football in South Africa" and is "absolutely essential for an authentic South African footballing experience". He also said there was no point in taking the world cup to Africa and then "trying to give it a European feel".


But how integral to the culture can it be, how traditional can it be, when it's only been popular for barely 20 years?


> Originally made out of tin, the vuvuzela became popular in South Africa in the 1990s. Well-known Kaizer Chiefs F.C. fan Freddie "Saddam" Maake claims to have invented the vuvuzela by adapting an aluminium version as early as 1965 from a bicycle horn after removing the black rubber to blow with his mouth. He later found it to be too short and joined a pipe to make it longer. Maake has photos of himself in the 1970s and 1980s at local South African games and international games in 1992 and 1996 and at the 1998 World Cup in France, holding the aluminium vuvuzela.


Now, for a final bit of irony. Seems the maker of the vuvuzela is capitalizing on the problem his product creates:


> Demand for earplugs to protect from hearing loss during the World Cup outstripped supply, with many pharmacies running out of stock. *Neil van Schalkwyk, manufacturer of the plastic vuvuzela, began selling earplugs to fans.*


All quotes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuvuzela with bold emphasizing by me.


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## PatentLawyerNYC (Sep 21, 2007)

JJR512 said:


> I've just done some additional research into it, and it seems that 233 Hz is indeed the fundamental.
> 
> Wikipedia identifies "B♭3" as the instrument's primary sound. I can read sheet music but was unfamiliar with the number in the note, and did some research on that. The number identifies which octave the note is in. The info I read indicated that A4 is at 440 Hz, so it stands to reason that the 466 Hz B♭ is also in the fourth octave. As you probably know, halving the frequency of a note gives you the same note on the next ocatve down, therefore 233 Hz should be B♭3...the note identified as the vuvuzela's sound.


Thanks for doing that research; it's always satisfying when something makes sense!


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Well it appears that Vuvuzela has captured the public imagination or is it indignation? But is it louder than Maria Sharapova?

Back to the football Italy 1v NZ 1 and no I will not join the 'hug a kiwi campaign.' Mind you after the Italian ref and the Hollywood antics of the Italian team in 2006 most Australian fans have a smile on today.


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## expressingmyself (Jun 16, 2010)

A fairly surprising World Cup thus far. I am glad to see France hit absolute rock bottom after they backed into the tournament in such ugly fashion -- their team refused to practice today and several managers stormed off in a huff. It is all but over for Les Bleus!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Watching France, one time WC winners, implode, with them drawing & losing as a result of such terrible football to tiny footballing nations, with a star player being sent home, a player's strike, the physical training coach resigning & flying home to Paris, the manager hated by the players for at least the last 5 years, and the players behaving like spoiled schoolchildren is sweet revenge for this Irishman. That's what you get for cheating Monsieur Henry! 

It proves that God really does prefer Uisce beatha to Pernod!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Great piece in todays Irish Indie about the Irish reaction to France's meltdown! 

You've gotta laugh!

Schadenfreude is a dish best served cold


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

My computer got the Robert Green virus and now it can't save anything...

boom boom....


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Nice one!


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

I have watched exactly five or ten minutes of world cup highlights. I think I've actually heard and read stories about those silly horns than about the acutal soccer...err...football.

Like so many of us Ugly Americans icon_smile_wink, I have a hard time embracing the sport. That is not to say that I don't admire the hard work, strategy and dedication of the players and fans. It just doesn't hold my interest (much like car racing, the NBA and NHL). My wife...on the other had...is a little more interested in it than I, as she lived in England, Korea and Hong Kong for extended periods and really got into ii.

I know it's an age-old debate, but why hasn't "football" caught on in the States? I think it's because of the numerous (dare I say "over abundance?")sporting and entertainment options and the fact that most of our kids rarely play it after their early teens.

All my best to each of you and your teams. I'll be the guy watching baseball, tennis and golf, and counting the seconds for college football and NFL to start up again.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

TMMKC said:


> I know it's an age-old debate, but why hasn't "football" caught on in the States? I think it's because of the numerous (dare I say "over abundance?")sporting and entertainment options and the fact that most of our kids rarely play it after their early teens.


Yes, exactly. We Americans ignore soccer/football because we have more interesting sports to watch...like baseball.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

TMMKC said:


> I know it's an age-old debate, but why hasn't "football" caught on in the States?


Well, I know the US is a bit backwards as regards sports so it's understandable. I mean, any country that applies the name "football" to a mostly static game of armoured rugby in which kicking the ball by the offensive squad players isn't allowed really doesn't know its sporting arse from its sporting elbow


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

This particular discussion has always remined me of this FAIL....


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Brilliant Victor!


I used to watch American football religiously back in the early 90s. I also went to every home match of the London Monarchs in the WLAF for two seasons. 

The best play I ever saw, was by the Atlanta Falcons, early 90s. They were winning easily, so in the 4th they started showboating, but the crowd loved it & it proved how good American football can be if the focus is on the play rather than on the touchdown. So the QB drops back, passes off backwards to a running back, who runs up, past the line of scrimmage, still no forward pass, he passes off backwards to a reciever while palming off tackles, who then passes off again to another back who then takes it over the line for a touchdown. Looked like rugby. I'd like to think it's how football was played a 100 years ago. The crowd went absolutely ballistic, many of them presumably not having seen more than 1 or 2 passes before in a single play and many youngsters probably not realising that when there's been no forward pass you can pass off backwards as many times as you want.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Well, I know the US is a bit backwards as regards sports so it's understandable.


In Olympic history, the USA has won a grand total of 2,549 medals. That's more than double the second-place overall medal count of 1,204 held by the Soviet Union. Backwards in sports, my fat American ass... 

Looking a bit deeper, the USA has more summer medals (of all three colors) than any other country; in all three cases, the Soviet Union was second, with fewer than half the USA's count. In the winter, Norway has the highest count of all three medals; for gold and silver, the USA is a close second, while for bronze, the USA is third behind Austria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_Olympic_Games_medal_table


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

JJR512 said:


> In Olympic history, the USA has won a grand total of 2,549 medals.
> Looking a bit deeper, the USA has more summer medals (of all three colors) than any other country


Easier access to steroids and other performance enhancing drugs. Do you want me to run up a list of the prestigious medal winning names later disgraced?  We can start with Lance and Andre and then go over to my faovurite American sport baseball: Jose, Roger, and Dwight, three of my favourite players...who'd have guessed? Well, okay Jose's jawline was a bit of a giveaway 
No only joking, all countries are at it

But seriously, what I mean by "backwards" is the unhealthy obsession with endless statistics and odd rules in American sports plus the liking for non-sports sports. For example before the WC in the US, the US FA wanted football during the WC to have four quarters and for points to be awarded for shots on goal, and to have kick-ins instead of throw-ins. Fifa of course just laughed and dismissed all the US FA suggestions.

I love wathcing baseball but I couldn't give a fiddlers F*** how often a pitcher has walked lefties or the career strike out rate a batter has against lefty pitchers and so on. Totally uninteresting, unnecessary and anal! 

And I find it hilarious how serious US sports commentators get over golf and tractor pulling and bmx riding...hasn't anyone told them those aren't sports?


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

You've become quite the troll!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Is that the most interesting contribution you can make, to call someone lightheartedly discussing sports on a sport thread a troll?

Go boil your head ya mug!


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Ahem....

Spain. I mean, how can a team have that much possession, that many attempt and thant much skill and not win 10 nil. Chile will be a much more interesting opponent to see what they're all about at this WC.


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## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> And I find it hilarious how serious US sports commentators get over golf and tractor pulling and bmx riding...hasn't anyone told them those aren't sports?


You can pick on golf, "football", baseball, BMX riding, snowboarding and any other "sports" you want, but lay off the tractor pulling comments!!!!
 just kidding

The funny thing is, in the past ten years I bet the most common spectator sport I have attended is tractor pulls.

Andy B.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Yes in Australia we call it Soccer as well, don't ask me why. But imagine how Dear Leader is feeling this morning after the Portugal V DRPK game was broadcast live in the country, mind you probably had to be a selected party member to own a TV. 

The Portugal V Brazil game should be a cracker on Friday.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

andy b. said:


> The funny thing is, in the past ten years I bet the most common spectator sport I have attended is tractor pulls.
> 
> Andy B.


Which is exactly why I mentioned it.... I actually like it, it's great fun to watch. Any event that actually has lots of noise, lots of power and lots of movement makes for great viewing. Monster trucks, speedway (my favourite motor sport), F1 and so on.

Nascar however, please I don't need sleeping pills anymore I just get hypnotised to sleep


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

ajo said:


> The Portugal V Brazil game should be a cracker on Friday.


That is _THE_ game of the first round, that everyone is expecting beautiful total football from. The final score is unimportant as
long as there are lots of goals. It's the kind of match you watch for the football, not to support a team.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I occasionally watch the World Cup... on mute. Otherwise that angry swarm of bees might come here and kill me.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Mon Dieu, OMG Merde! South Africa 2 V France 1 This is the World Cup and not the comedy channel isn't it? Wait is that "Irish eyes are smiling". I can hear?

Earl your entirely correct it is kind of match you watch for the football, for the pure poetry of the sport. 

But then the Irish play the Wallabies on Saturday night, and a friend has a bottle of Grange Hermitage he is bringing over. Wahoo. 

Oh and English play NZ Maori tonight so life is looking good.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Mmmm.... 

Grange Hermitage....


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Oh, how I was wishing that South Africa got that third goal to take them through. They played so well. Beating France & France being so humiliated playing such awful football was the icing on the cake. 

SA had several good shots on goal that were either saved with diffculty, hit the woodwork or just went wide by a foot or so.
Shame they won't be in the next round, a great team to watch. And like Fifa I hope this doesn't put the mockers on the rest of the tournament with the locals now losing interest and staying away from games.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

I mentioned earlier today that England is playing NZ Maori in the Rugby, as one commentator put it, "what a fantastic game of Rugby." Watch the replay if you can. No back to the World Cup.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

OK. A decent couple of days football.

Argentina were pretty awesome against the most negative piece of football I've ever seen from the Greeks. 

England were still unconvincing and will be interesting if they can raise their game against the Germans - who were excellent tonight. Ghana, too were excellent and is great to see an African team in the next round. 

Did not see the USA play but delighted to see them through. Shame for the Aussies - a great win over Serbia but both are now out.


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

Yes, a fantastic game and yet another international team that came unstuck at McLean Park. We have been spoiled by excellent games against Ireland, Wales and England recently with all teams fighting very well.


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## dawgvet (Mar 15, 2009)

Just recently started watching soccer and can see now what I was missing. Looking forward to more! Go USA!


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

GO TEAM USA!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Finally England played something approaching the kind of total football they are capable of. I thought they did a good job. But as you say Victor, they're not going to have an easy time of it against Germany. 

But how does the old terrace's song go:

"Two world wars and one world cup do da do da/
Two world wars and one world cup do da do da day"


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

*BBC vs. RTE (Irish TV)....*

*Half-time. World Cup Punditry yesterday* 
Hansen: "Once England got the goal the confidence levels surged, they were excellent." 
Eamon Dunphy: "They just didn't grow in confidence at all after the goal." 
Lineker: "The goal really settled them, didn't it? They pushed on from there." 
Ronnie Whelan: "You'd think they'd have kicked on from when they scored, but they actually got worse." 
Roy Hodgson: "England's crossing has been absolutely outstanding." 
John Giles: "Some of the crossing was just awful." 
Shearer: "Rooney looks more confident, he's getting around the pitch a lot better." 
Dunphy: "It's shocking to see Rooney so subdued, he's been reduced to a shivering wreck." 
Shearer: "They look much more comfortable on the ball, they're passing it with a purpose, with pace, they're closing down - a much better performance, it's encouraging." 
Giles: "They're much better than they have been, but they couldn't have been worse." 

*No arguments, then. Second half. England held on. Full-time. Ready?*

Lee Dixon: "A great performance." 
Dunphy: "Shocking . . . absolutely incredibly bad . . . pretty awful stuff." 
Hansen: "The commitment was there, the spirit was there, the enterprise was there, the creativity was there, they passed it better - they could have scored five or six quite easily. Capello will obviously be delighted with the performance." 
Giles: "If that's the shackles off what'll they be like when the shackles are back on?" 
'Arry Redknapp: "We played with pace, we got after them, we pressed them, there wasn't a weakness in the team." 
Dunphy: "They were astonishingly poor." 
Lineker: "He looked more like the Rooney we know." 
Ronnie: "Rooney is a major worry, his form, his body language, his demeanour, everything." 
Dixon: "Gerrard was outstanding." 
Dunphy: "I can't believe how bad Gerrard was today." 
'Arry: "Across midfield we were top drawer." 
Giles: "Barry got worse as the game went on, Milner, Gerrard and Lampard the same." 
'Arry: "Bring it on! Whoever we play we'll be difficult to beat." 
Ronnie: "If they don't improve they'll go straight out, it was a very, very inept performance."


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

VictorRomeo said:


> *BBC vs. RTE (Irish TV)....*
> 
> *Half-time. World Cup Punditry yesterday*
> Hansen: "Once England got the goal the confidence levels surged, they were excellent."
> ...


Are you talking about Sheffield United's Blades Business Crew? :icon_scratch:


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

So it's goodbye from the NZ All Whites. After drawing with Slovakia, Italy and Paraguay NZ failed to make the top-16 cut. Our rugby-mad nation is incredibly, incredibly proud of the team (ranked 78 or something) having been unbeaten at the World Cup.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Woke this morning,(hey this reminds me of a line from a great reggae song) to the news that Italy are gone, wahoo! And the English have to play Germany. Next week is looking good.


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

I think Italy was gone - long gone - before the tournament started!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

ajo said:


> Woke this morning,(hey this reminds me of a line from a great reggae song) to the news that Italy are gone, wahoo! And the English have to play Germany. Next week is looking good.


It's not next week it's on Sunday. (Unless of course you're one of those, and there are qutie a few and I'm not saying anything against it, who believe that the week starts rather than ends on Sunday )


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

By the way, Italy and France are out so fast?!!! I strongly suspect dirty match fixing.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> It's not next week it's on Sunday. (Unless of course you're one of those, and there are qutie a few and I'm not saying anything against it, who believe that the week starts rather than ends on Sunday )


I always felt the week ended with that first beer on a Friday afternoon.:icon_smile_big:


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Team USA 2014 FIFA champion in Brazil! :aportnoy:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

USA out. Well played Ghana. So I've still got one African team in the next round.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

In other news Wallabies 22 V Ireland 15 a somewhat dour game with the Wallabies still fumbling their way to victory, 

All Blacks 29 V Wales 10 Well lets see if they can go all the way in the IRWC in NZ next year or will be another case of 'chokers.' 

1978 Grange Hermitage OMG what a wine the superlatives could roll off my key board for the next hour or so and I still would not have said it all.

Now back to the football.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

England out after a shedding by the Germans. They were shocking and even that disallowed goal could never have saved them. Even the BBC had to come clean. I genuinly had high hopes for this team. They qualified well and seemed to have great unity and team spirit but it all unravelled. The root is John Terry in my opinion - since he was stripped of the captaincy and his attempted to undermine last week - it's gone horribly for them. Where will be some interesting headlines tomorrow. 

Germany still look razor sharp and assuming the Argies beat Mexico - it leads to a tantalising quarter final....


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

^ You just have to love the tabloid press

Franks for Nothing; Fabios flops and the sub headline Watch England and get stressed;watching England is one of life's most stressful events researchers say.( Hey I could insert Wallabies in there) 

So then Germany V Argentina well worth saying up for.


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## Bermuda (Aug 16, 2009)

I have a feeling that either Germany or Argentina will win the cup
England always blows it in big international tournaments.....even though I think the Premiership is the best club league in the world


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, if they'd won on Sunday, they'd have been beaten by Argentina....
If they'd beaten the USA, then they'd've been out one day sooner, beaten by Ghana.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

It's the best league because of foreign players and investment.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Quite. And the foreign players stifle the development of British players, that and the lack of understanding of the game in kids' football. Teams in the u12 leagues, for example, with a couple of big lads who can kick hard and can intimidate the smaller lads, will win regularly. The skilled, but smaller, players won't get picked, in favour of big lads, so eventually stop playing as they never get a game. So, you get the big, and relatively unskilled, who go on to play as they get older.
It's depressing.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

So is the England team looking for a new manager now? Probably will be the standard drill, lousy performance, sack the manager.

BTW does anyone know the fate of the North Korean team? I gather Kim Jong Il was non too pleased with their result.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Chouan said:


> Teams in the u12 leagues, for example, with a couple of big lads who can kick hard and can intimidate the smaller lads, will win regularly. The skilled, but smaller, players won't get picked, in favour of big lads, so eventually stop playing as they never get a game. So, you get the big, and relatively unskilled, who go on to play as they get older.
> It's depressing.


I don't think much has changed at all. If anyone gets a chance, watch the 1969 movie "Kes". In particular the sadistic Brian Glover football scene.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Chouan said:


> Quite. And the foreign players stifle the development of British players, that and the lack of understanding of the game in kids' football. Teams in the u12 leagues, for example, with a couple of big lads who can kick hard and can intimidate the smaller lads, will win regularly. The skilled, but smaller, players won't get picked, in favour of big lads, so eventually stop playing as they never get a game. So, you get the big, and relatively unskilled, who go on to play as they get older.
> It's depressing.


And that in a nutshell is the problem with the English game. Compounded by the fact that it's horribly unforgiving - right down at schoolboy level. If you make a few mistakes, you're out - which is utterly stupid as youngsters have to make mistakes to develop. This is the direct cause of two specific problems - the lack of good goalkeeper(once and English staple) and Englands inability to maintain possession. The fear of being caught and loosing possession drives the player to immediatly release. Hence the 'kick and rush' stigma. Now, I'm not using kick and rush pejoritavly - there's a time and place for it. But with the other technicalites of the game absent oe lacking, there is only ever going to be one result - England won't win the WC.

The USA for example place huge emphasis on the kids game and do it so well. They are really developing as a footballing nation and will continue to grow.

So, if the FA really want to address the problem, they have to go back to the core as they are not redressing the pressures placed on players as a result of the modern professional game.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

The Japanese manager is easily the best dressed manager I've seen.

"The USA for example place huge emphasis on the kids game and do it so well. They are really developing as a footballing nation and will continue to grow."

I don't see this... Maybe a few oddball soccer nuts are teaching their children the proper rules, but by and large, we still are a soccer-less nation. Also, the same problem mentioned above is prevalent in our sports from the bottom up. We fill our national team up with a bunch of black guys and we think we'll win. :rolleyes2:

Doesn't help that virtually all our pro athletes can't perform to the capacity they do without steroids.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

I see Marks & Sparks haven't dropped the price of the England replica suits yet.

https://www.marksandspencer.com/Official-England-Single-Breasted-Jacket/dp/B0036JG45W

£199 quid for a suit associated with *epic fail* is a bit much.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

South African Vuvuzela Philharmonic Angered By Soccer Games Breaking Out During Concerts

https://https://www.theonion.com/articles/south-african-vuvuzela-philharmonic-angered-by-soc,17625/

JOHANNESBURG-Members of the South Africa Vuvuzela Philharmonic Orchestra, widely considered to be among the best large-scale monotonic wind instrument ensembles in the world, told reporters Friday they were furious over the recent outbreaks of international soccer matches during their traditional outdoor concerts.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Chouan said:


> Quite. And the foreign players stifle the development of British players, that and the lack of understanding of the game in kids' football. Teams in the u12 leagues, for example, with a couple of big lads who can kick hard and can intimidate the smaller lads, will win regularly. The skilled, but smaller, players won't get picked, in favour of big lads, so eventually stop playing as they never get a game. So, you get the big, and relatively unskilled, who go on to play as they get older.
> It's depressing.


Spot on, on all points.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

My oh my, the Germans were awesome against Argentina. Stout defense and awesome counter attacking football. It'll be an interesting if Spain can produce a strong display later but right now, you'd really have to fancy the Germans outright.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Yes I imagine the odds have shorted considerably on Germany winning it. But 4-0, didn't expect that coming. The games of the past few days have been spectacular I though the Dutch were gone against Brazil in the first ten minutes, but the Football Gods have other opinions. 

I know I have a couple of sleepless nights with my son coming up this week.


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## Pirendeus (Jul 17, 2009)

Oh, the world cup is ongoing? I thought it ended after the US was done ;p


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## njkyle (Oct 11, 2009)

Chouan said:


> Quite. And the foreign players stifle the development of British players, that and the lack of understanding of the game in kids' football. Teams in the u12 leagues, for example, with a couple of big lads who can kick hard and can intimidate the smaller lads, will win regularly. The skilled, but smaller, players won't get picked, in favour of big lads, so eventually stop playing as they never get a game. So, you get the big, and relatively unskilled, who go on to play as they get older.
> It's depressing.


I don't disagree. The leagues are influential these days, and not always in a positive way. But in my childhood, the wonder of the game was that we played it anywhere, at any opportunity, with any number of participants: in a park, on the church parking lot, in the middle of the street in between passing cars, etc. Soccer, or football, was strongest in those countries where the kids had the motivation to play casually - often the poorest regions producing the most talented players, such as Garincha. As I recall, there wasn't a lot of fouling in the street game, and a little talented kid would be chosen over a clumsy big oaf every time.

Ah, but that was when our objective was to play for our local city team, not to get transferred to some heartless city where the other players had funny accents (northern or southern).

(I was a young teenager of the 1966 vintage; when a scrappy English team beat Germany in extra time, and I blew a vintage car horn in front of the television all through the game. I am sure the neighbors appreciated it.)


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

All I know is that the final is on at 4.30am Canberra time next Monday so have organised for the day off so my son and I can watch it. But there is still final two games to go so my pick would be a Viva Espana and The House of Oranje final. However I think that the Germans will have something to say about that.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Hmm My psychic dog beat the psychic octopus in the tipping stakes.Viva Espana at least for today. As for Sunday night,Hup Holland Hup!

re Paul the Octopus https://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/08/soccer-octopus-world-cup-final

And the news service I listened to said he picked Germany sigh cant trust any one


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

I think that I enjoyed the game last night at least as much as any other game I've watched recently. I'm hoping for a really good final: "Remember the 80 Years War!"


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

World cup final is on at 2.30AM in the morning. Now do I get up very early, or go to bed very late?


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

GO SPAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

MikeDT said:


> World cup final is on at 2.30AM in the morning. Now do I get up very early, or go to bed very late?


Here its on 4.30am so quite night Sunday night and no fridge full of larger to wash the game down with.(sigh)


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

The final was a bit anti-climactic; I was hoping they would go into the kicking phase. Still, at least my team won.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Anybody know any Octopus recipes? The game did show some moments of great football but not enough to warrant getting up at 4.30am. 

And just think next year the Rugby World Cup is on in NZ.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

ajo said:


> Anybody know any Octopus recipes?


 Here's some you could try: https://fishcooking.about.com/od/octopusrecipes/Octopus_Recipes_How_to_Cook_Octopus.htm


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

The final was the most boring football match I have ever seen in my life.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

ajo said:


> Here its on 4.30am so quite night Sunday night and no fridge full of larger to wash the game down with.(sigh)


2:30 AM no beer in the fridge either. Only things to eat are sunflower seeds and peanuts.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

I love it. I absolutely love it. Just when you think it could not get any worse for them.... this happens....!!!

https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8849972.stm


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

VictorRomeo said:


> I love it. I absolutely love it. Just when you think it could not get any worse for them.... this happens....!!!
> 
> https://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8849972.stm


Love it. You see, you mess with God's people and prevent them from going to the world cup and this is what happens to you! 
The curse of the Irish be forever on the French!


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