# John Wayne Westerns



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Currently lapping up a box set of John Wayne westerns. Of course as a kid in the 60s and 70s I never appreciated them because I didn't understand them or the old west as my father did, or as well as an Irish cowboy could (My father was a horse wrangler/stable boy in his teens in the 40s in Ireland.) 

Also I never really rated John Wayne as an actor - probably some sort of teenage rebellion in me 'cos my dad admired him. Because I can think of no real reason in me for not liking him previously. 

But now, watching these westerns, I must say, what an actor.
So far I've watched Tall in the Saddle, Stagecoach, and Fort Apache (and wow, didn't Shirley Temple turn out well? I had no idea she carried on acting as an adult)

I now also know why he was known as the Duke. In his first film, he was still using his own surname but called himself Duke, Duke Morrison.

And of course seeing him with the great Victor McLaglen reminds me of The Quiet Man, one of my (and my parents') very favourite films. I see lots of similarities in the Irish characters of those western films with the old characters I encountered in Ireland in the 60s. I also remember our old house in Ireland (Rosslare) had very similar furniture to some of the furniture in Tall in the Saddle.

I also wonder when did the real west disappear? Bearing in mind that some of the old westerns were made in the 20s and 30s, is it possible that film makers were still being informed by a residual "real" west?

Also 2 weeks ago I watched The Assassination of Jesse James with Brad Pitt, and I must say I don't think I've before seen such a well acted, or more naturally acted film. Everyone seemed so natural in speech and movement that the film almost seemed at times a bit odd and surreal. The long pauses between speech that happen, embarrassing silences, people not understanding each other, everyday misunderstnaidngs and confusions. 

You will excuse me now as I'm going to go and watch the rest of She Wore a Yellow Ribbon! :icon_smile:


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I also wonder when did the real west disappear? Bearing in mind that some of the old westerns were made in the 20s and 30s, is it possible that film makers were still being informed by a residual "real" west?


The American Frontier was "closed" in 1890 and I'm not aware of any significant Indian engagements after 1900 but by the time Stagecoach was made in 1938 the childhood memories of some of it's contributors could have been in tact.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

WouldaShoulda said:


> The American Frontier was "closed" in 1890 and I'm not aware of any significant Indian engagements after 1900 but by the time Stagecoach was made in 1938 the childhood memories of some of it's contributors could have been in tact.


I always thought it interesting that famed gunfighter and part-time lawman (who wasn't back then) Bat Masterson, a man who was an associate of Wyatt Earp and came very close to having been a participant in the Gunfight at the OK corral, died in 1921 in New York City while working as a newspaper sports writer. Putting the old west, 1921, and New York City sports writer in the same sentence just seems odd to me.

Cruiser


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

I believe Wyatt Erp died in 1929. He spent the last decade of his life hanging out with Tom Mix and company in Hollyood.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> Bat Masterson, a man who was an associate of Wyatt Earp and came very close to having been a participant in the Gunfight at the OK corral, died in 1921 in New York City...


NEW, YORK, CITY??


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> And of course seeing him with the great Victor McLaglen reminds me of The Quiet Man, one of my (and my parents') very favourite films.


Ahh, the Squire Danaher. A darlin' man... a darlin' man....


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Read a very good book on John Wayne's America by Garry Wills, quite a good read but paints a very negative picture of The Duke during WW2. John Ford's The Man who shot Liberty Valence is my favourite Western. And that great Arnold Schwarzenegger quote "I'll be back," was first uttered by The Duke in Roster Cogburn.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

VictorRomeo said:


> Ahh, the Squire Danaher. A darlin' man... a darlin' man....


And working through this box set I've heard that McLaglen used darlin' quite often. In Fort Apache he calls his fellow sergeants darlin' and as the Sgt Major in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" he calls his Captain (Wayne) darlin'.

And sure wasn't he a darlin' actor himself auld Victor?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Of course, things were still a little Wild in the American West during the scirmish with Pancho Villa in the late teens across the US and MX border.

Our Government took a much more active role in defending it then!!


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## McPatrickClan (Jun 5, 2012)

I have tried but have never been able to get into any of the John Wayne Western films. I love Elmore Leonard's Western novels and loved the modern remake of "True Grit" though.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

McPatrickClan said:


> I have tried but have never been able to get into any of the John Wayne Western films. I love Elmore Leonard's Western novels and loved the modern remake of "True Grit" though.


Welcome to the thread, 2 years on I haven't seen the new version of True Grit yet but I hear good things about it.

Now McPatrick that's an "Irish"(?) surname I've never encountered before. Is it a "new" American construction for an Irish ancestor? Or an anglicisation of an Irish name?


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Interesting that Victor McLaglen, who played so many Irish roles, was actually English, and had been an Officer in the British Army in the First World War, serving in Mesopotamia. One of his earlier starring roles was "The Lost Patrol", set in Mesopotamia. It must have been a curious experience.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

As far as John Wayne films are concerned, the US Cavalry trilogy are very good, as is "Stagecoach" and "True Grit", and I particularly like "The Searchers". I do like "The Quiet Man" though, especially John Thornton's first view of Clifden as he travels in the sidecar from the station, which is the classic postcard view from the "Sky Road". Geographically unsound, of course!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

For those USA based fans of John Wayne westerns, the 'oh-so-infamous' Walmart stores are selling a collection of 25 of The Duke's films in their bargain movie bins, for the paltry sum of $5. At just .20 cents per movie, the price must be right, LOL, regardless of the quality of the entertainment!


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> And working through this box set I've heard that McLaglen used darlin' quite often. In Fort Apache he calls his fellow sergeants darlin' and as the Sgt Major in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" he calls his Captain (Wayne) darlin'.
> 
> And sure wasn't he a darlin' actor himself auld Victor?


John Ford + John Wayne + Victor McLaglen + Ward Bond = Great Movie

My favorite western is "Shane". It embodies not just the Western ideal but the American ideal of hard work, individualism, honor, and responsibility. It doesn't have the Duke in it, but Alan Ladd does pretty good.

Among modern westerns (Post-1970), I have a soft spot for Robert Redford's "Jeremiah Johnson" which is the closest visual expression to a Cormac McCarthy western novel that I've ever seen. BTW, everyone raves about McCarthy's *Blood Meridian*, *No Country for Old Men*, and *The Road*, but reading his Border Trilogy (*All the Pretty Horses, The Crossing, and Cities of the Plain*) is a life-changing experience.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> My favorite western is "Shane". It embodies not just the Western ideal but the American ideal of hard work, individualism, honor, and responsibility. It doesn't have the Duke in it, but Alan Ladd does pretty good.


Does it? I thought that embodies the view that a gunman is an obviously more attractive figure than a hard-working farmer. Both the farmer's wife and son clearly thought so!


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Chouan said:


> Does it? I thought that embodies the view that a gunman is an obviously more attractive figure than a hard-working farmer. Both the farmer's wife and son clearly thought so!


Shane's attraction to the Starrett family and them to him is obvious to everyone, but what does Shane do? Instead of selfishly indulging in his own happiness by allowing Starrett to ride into town to be killed by the gunman (Jack Palance) so that he can take over as the father and husband. He arrives at a solution that protects the honor of Starrett. He kills Ryker and his gang so the Starrett family can live happily on the farm. And instead of hanging around to be a distraction (to the kid and wife), he virtuously rides off into the mountains, wounded, to heal himself (in one interpretation), or heroically die alone (in another). We're all human with human foibles, but Shane rises above it to achieve mythical status. A great movie!

The scene where Shane and Starrett defeat the stump is as elegant a display of the power of perserverence ever filmed.

The scene in which Starrett and Shane defeat Ryker's henchmen in the bar fight is classic Americanism. Although not responsible for starting the fight, they defeat the bad guys, and after Starrett sees all of the damage in the bar, he proudly yells out, "Ryker ain't paying a penny of this damage. I'm paying for it! No, by God, me and Shane will pay for it. Every cent!" That's a man with big CA Jones taking responsibility, and that's something you don't see today in everyone you meet.

I love the movie!


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

I had the honor of watching John Wayne in "The Searchers" on the big screen a couple of weeks ago at the Orpheum Theater here in Memphis. What a treat.


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