# What's the big deal about Brioni again?



## pkhunter (Sep 17, 2009)

Just got a Brioni Palatino 22 suit today in dark charcoal.

Am I under-whelmed!

From my understanding, this is a relatively newer model. The lapels are fat and grandpa variety. The material is so-so. The stitching looks nice, but the overall fall of the suit is super-boxy.

Especially the tag inside the collar that says "Made in Italy" is a pathetically cheap white piece of cloth with a terrible font in ink blue. Is this a fake or is this the typical high end Brioni badge?

I wonder if I am too spoilt by my Zegna/Isaia? Even the Roma from Zegna and a Corneliani I own are both *much* less boxier than this Brioni!

Wasn't Brioni supposed to be the Bond suit? Can't believe this is OTR dribble they sell for the prices they do.

I am thinking of returning this immediately, but wanted to get thoughts from more experienced Brioni people about what I could have done better to get a somewhat sharper yet understated Brioni. Isn't Palatino 22 one of those models?

Thanks


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## PatentLawyerNYC (Sep 21, 2007)

Not sure where you bought your item such that you'd doubt its authenticity (eBay?). But in any event, I have a lot of Brioni and the one thing I can say about their goods is that they are consistently of very high quality. Shirts seem to hold up exceptionally well. If you do not like the cut or the fit, that's something entirely different.


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## sirchandler (May 28, 2010)

pkhunter said:


> Just got a Brioni Palatino 22 suit today in dark charcoal.
> 
> Am I under-whelmed!
> 
> ...


I don't own any Brioni, nor can I comment on their quality. One thing that I would say is go with your instinct.


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## pkhunter (Sep 17, 2009)

Cut was the first thing. Palatino 22 is one of their "modern" cuts, but it's unimpressive for someone who's used to slightly sharper (and yet classic, understated) cuts. 

Fabric was okay (Zegna Couture has high end fabrics to beat) and the lining was very well done, but I was surprised with how cheap the tags etc were inside. 

I bought this from a well known discounter in the US, so I know it's not a fake.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

You seem to be confusing a particular cut (width of lapels, "box[iness]") with quality. The two are wholly unrelated. I would put the workmanship in the suits that I have made for me up against almost anything, but I suspect you would dislike the cut. Being "disappointed" with a suit's cut is like being disappointed by a car's color. If you don't like that color, buy a different car! If you don't like a particular cut, find one with a cut you like, or have one made!


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## pkhunter (Sep 17, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> You seem to be confusing a particular cut (width of lapels, "box[iness]") with quality. The two are wholly unrelated. I would put the workmanship in the suits that I have made for me up against almost anything, but I suspect you would dislike the cut. Being "disappointed" with a suit's cut is like being disappointed by a car's color. If you don't like that color, buy a different car! If you don't like a particular cut, find one with a cut you like, or have one made!


Good but inaccurate analogy. A suit's shape is like a car's shape. If a Toyota's best shape (like Brioni's "trendier" Palatino 22) was crap, then I'd rather not buy it although it's the most reliable car (just as Brioni's materials are great).

For a top notch brand to make a suit like that -- mind you, not just the boxy cut, but the uncle lapels, saggy armholes, and very ordinary buttons for supposedly $4,500 retail -- and call it "trendy" is just telltale.

Maybe Brioni has Lexus models, but I got their Toyota. Problem was this Toyota is billed as one of their better models, which is confounding.

Anyway, thanks.


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## sirchandler (May 28, 2010)

pkhunter,

Did you not try on this particular suit prior to purchase or was this suit purchased on-line or something? Pardon me if this was already answered just curious.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

pkhunter said:


> Good but inaccurate analogy. A suit's shape is like a car's shape. If a Toyota's best shape (like Brioni's "trendier" Palatino 22) was crap, then I'd rather not buy it although it's the most reliable car (just as Brioni's materials are great).
> 
> For a top notch brand to make a suit like that -- mind you, not just the boxy cut, but the uncle lapels, saggy armholes, and very ordinary buttons for supposedly $4,500 retail -- and call it "trendy" is just telltale.
> 
> ...


I reject your car analogy. A boxy cut Rolls is, as you put it, an "uncle" car. You bought a boxy suit. Those who like boxy suits will like it, just as they might like a boxy RR. You don't like boxy suits.

A Ferrari is, as you might put it a "sharper" car. You like "sharper" suits. If you had purchased a sharper suit you would have been pleased.

The correct car analogy is: a man who buys a boxy RR should not complain it is not a sharper Ferrari.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I think Brioni sells different stuff in certain stores or something. I went to a Neiman Marcus once and tried on a Brioni sport coat. I was pretty disappointed. It was "Brioni for Neiman Marcus" on the inside.


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## chotzo (Nov 26, 2007)

I bought a Brioni used on Ebay and it's a beautiful suit. A grey nailshead fabric that drapes very well. It needed to be tailored, of course, but it's just wonderful. I have some Corneliani's, a few Jil Sander tailor made suits and a Caruso silk/linen jacket. It 's miles better than all of them. I enjoy the punchy roman shoulders as a nice contrast to softer tailoring (that I like as well). When I wear my Brioni I feel heroic.


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## chotzo (Nov 26, 2007)

Oh yeah, I have an Isaia sport jacket as well...Brioni's better.


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## pkhunter (Sep 17, 2009)

arkirshner said:


> The correct car analogy is: a man who buys a boxy RR should not complain it is not a sharper Ferrari.


No it isn't. You missed my point. Boxy is NOT the only thing I found underwhelming.

Boxy can be fixed to a certain extent by tailoring, nipping. Lapels, etc cannot be.

Whatever it is, a Brioni is far from a garment deserving of $4,500 bucks. Sorry mate. I am sure some people feel nice paying it, but there are many other significantly smarter options with phenomenal tailoring standards.


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## pkhunter (Sep 17, 2009)

Jovan said:


> I think Brioni sells different stuff in certain stores or something. I went to a Neiman Marcus once and tried on a Brioni sport coat. I was pretty disappointed. It was "Brioni for Neiman Marcus" on the inside.


I have a feeling this is the kind of merchandise I ended up with. The suit I got -- online ordering, yes, but with many pictures that looked quite alright -- was very midwest American in actual construction.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

So, you bought something solely on the strength of a brand name, and it turned out not to be what you wanted/hoped?

Who could have seen that coming?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

pkhunter said:


> I have a feeling this is the kind of merchandise I ended up with. The suit I got -- online ordering, yes, but with many pictures that looked quite alright -- *was very midwest American in actual construction*.


 I guess that's what they think American customers want. Ironically, any nouveau riche American with money to burn for a high end Italian suit or sport coat probably wants an _Italian-looking_ garment.


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## pkhunter (Sep 17, 2009)

No. Read my posts please. I saw pictures. I read measurements. I read up on Palatino 22 and people's glowing reviews. One doesn't spend Brioni caliber cash without some groundwork. 

I've seen Brioni stores in Seoul, Tokyo, Shanghai. The utter dribble I saw there, I used to think that's just bad Asian merchandizing. Now I'm not so sure. Brioni may in fact be for a different bunch. To each his own. 

Let's leave this be. To me, for *me*, Zegna's Milano and Isaia are the pinnacle of suit making. When I want cheap and dirty, there is always Canali, Benjamin, etc. When I can spend a truckload more on a suit, perhaps I'll look at a Kiton. Done with Brioni. Glad it works for others.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Is there a picture of this suit? I've never seen a Brioni suit with wide lapels so I'm interested to see how it looks. Brioni suits typically aren't very shaped, since their market is to older, richer executives. All the ones I've seen have been very well made. Better than Canali and Zegna. But over the years I haven't seen Brioni follow many trends. But right now wider lapels are becoming trendy again. Tom Ford is the leader in that.


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## pkhunter (Sep 17, 2009)

Thanks. That's useful perspective, and yes, I now do realize that Brioni is more targeted towards middle aged execs than people such as myself. Just that with all the James Bond talk, and quips on TV shows such as The Good Wife where that young lawyer supposedly wears Brioni (in reality probably something else by the look), I got swayed into trying one. 

I wouldn't mention Canali and Zegna in the same breath though. Canali and Corneliani maybe. 

Zegna's recent mainline and Isaia are comparable in my mind and much more palatable to a more globally-minded audience. 

Anyway, it's just a suit. People wear what they carry well. It was a good lesson and I'm glad I learned it for myself!


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

pkhunter said:


> Thanks. That's useful perspective, and yes, I now do realize that Brioni is more targeted towards middle aged execs than people such as myself. Just that with all the James Bond talk, and quips on TV shows such as The Good Wife where that young lawyer supposedly wears Brioni (in reality probably something else by the look), I got swayed into trying one.
> 
> I wouldn't mention Canali and Zegna in the same breath though. Canali and Corneliani maybe.
> 
> ...


As for James Bond, take a look at his Brioni suits and you'll notice those are quite boxy. In the 90s, Brosnan's suits had no waist suppression at all. It was done for a modern look.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Yeah, but they weren't as downright dumpy as the one I picked up at NM. Though maybe I'm wrong and Brioni just doesn't work on me.


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## Avers (Feb 28, 2006)

OP, can you tell us how much did you pay for this suit?


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Philosopher/poet Bo Dietl has mentioned that he wears Brioni suits. I don't know if that's one on him in the picture, but most of the Brioni products made for the NA market, as I understand it, are cut for Dietl-esque individuals. It's like the Borrelli shirts they sell in NM. They're cut for people the size of igloos, whereas the native models are very slim and flattering to the gentlemen who routinely declines the extra inch of pancake stacking.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Matt S said:


> As for James Bond, take a look at his Brioni suits and you'll notice those are quite boxy. In the 90s, Brosnan's suits had no waist suppression at all. It was done for a modern look.


And also possibly because according to the actress who played Miss Moneypenny, Samantha Bond, he had the narrowest chest of any man she'd seen, and hence there was no V for suppression to work.


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## clothingconnoisseur (Oct 9, 2005)

I just picked up my first Brioni and have to say that I love it. When I wear it I appear at least 10 pounds thinner and it fit me almost perfect off the rack except for sleave, cuffs and a minor collar adjustment. I usually wear Zegna and although it fits me well the Brioni is far better for me. That said, I have tried on Kiton a few times (good sales) and as much as I love the fabrics the suits are just not a good cut for me. 

The quality on the Brioni I bought is excellent from what I can tell. The cut may not be for you but I am surprised at your assesment of the quality. It sounds as if you got a lemon and maybe there is a reason this was at the discount store. I don't mean anything against discount stores since I shop there frequently but it is possible this was a garment that did not make it pass quality control.


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

pkhunter said:


> No it isn't. You missed my point. Boxy is NOT the only thing I found underwhelming.
> 
> Boxy can be fixed to a certain extent by tailoring, nipping. Lapels, etc cannot be.
> 
> Whatever it is, a Brioni is far from a garment deserving of $4,500 bucks. Sorry mate. I am sure some people feel nice paying it, but there are many other significantly smarter options with phenomenal tailoring standards.


Actually, boxy is inherent in how the chest is put together by tailoring and constructions. It's the part of the pig that no lipstick can change.

The potential source of your disconnect is that Brioni is the label and "Palatino 22" or "for Neiman Marcus" is the model. Certainly Brioni has a "house style", but the breadth of models are there to suit different price points and target customers.

Honestly, if you have the means to buy an OTR Brioni, why not just get MTM or lower-end bespoke?


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

I must say that I think Brioni make a pretty good product. I find that the construction is impressively clean and crisp. My experience is that the cut works well on my pretty slim figure - I wear size 30-32 Brioni trousers. 

I must confess that I don't really know what boxy means any more, or what features in the draft define this. However, my experience is that the coats made specifically for American departments stores are cut off blocks that much easier in their fit than those of the rest of their line. I have tried on Brioni at their Rome flagship store, as well as at Bergdorf/Barneys/Saks in NYC. I am a size 46/36 in Brioni and because of the limited offerings in this size I am usually forced to try on the 48/38. The 48/38s in the Rome store fitted me quite well but the Brioni for Bergdorf 38s are way too big for me. I have heard tailors suggest that Brioni probably adjust their cuts for the American market. 

Although these days I generally prefer to make my own coats, I own two-three Brioni coats, because they fit me well and are good value at discount. I prefer their cut greatly to Kiton and marginally over Isaia.


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