# Sack suit misery



## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

I have seen a couple times trad clothing, mostly sack suits worn by people who just don't know what the hell they are doing; usually it is someone buttoning up a 3/2 all the way and looking clueless.

But last night I saw a fellow on the train wearing a gray Brooks Brothers sack suit (I could tell because of the sleeve lining) and no trouser cuff; horrible Italian pointy toed shoes and a silky looking striped shirt. It was horrible.

I thought for a minute it might be Kiton Brioni.


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## pvpatty (Jun 5, 2008)

EastVillageTrad said:


> I thought for a minute it might be Kiton Brioni.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

That is cruel.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

Odd. You'd think someone buying a sack suit would know what he was buying. Maybe it was a thrift store purchase.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

wnh said:


> Odd. You'd think someone buying a sack suit would know what he was buying. Maybe it was a thrift store purchase.


Not if he bought it on the discount rack and didn't know what he was buying.

JB


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

Joe Tradly said:


> Not if he bought it on the discount rack and didn't know what he was buying.
> 
> JB


In that case, I'd at least think the salesman would inform him. Then again, Brooks offers so few sacks now that maybe the salesmen don't even know how to wear them.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

EVT

You should have been a sartorial good samaritan and pointed him in the right direction.


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

I don't deal well w/ Pharisees.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

wnh said:


> In that case, I'd at least think the salesman would inform him. Then again, Brooks offers so few sacks now that maybe the salesmen don't even know how to wear them.


Yeah, or how about at the outlet, where some poorly-selling sacks are banished. Think there's anyone at a 346 that knows what a sack jacket is?

JB


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Hell, in college when I did a summer at Brooks, guys came in and didn't care what cut they bought in Brooksease. They just nodded along w/ what the salesman told them...which unfortunately wasn't much . . .


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## old_style (Mar 18, 2007)

I've heard political pundits and others in the media refer to 2B center vent suit coats with darts as "sack suits". It seems that a lot of people don't know what "sack suit" really means.


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

Joe Tradly said:


> Yeah, or how about at the outlet, where some poorly-selling sacks are banished. Think there's anyone at a 346 that knows what a sack jacket is?
> 
> JB


Nope, at least not at the Seattle outlet. Unfortunately, most of the staff, but not all, in the Seattle and the recently closed Bellevue retail stores have no clue about sack jackets either. 

Was in the Seattle store the other day and they had some yahoo working there decked out in some Euro-trash outfit, with vest, sans jacket. 

Cheers.


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## Acacian (Jul 10, 2007)

EastVillageTrad said:


> I don't deal well w/ Pharisees.


Plus, talking to pointy-shoe types on the subway can never lead to anything good.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Back in the day it was not uncommon to wear sack suits with plain bottom trousers. Pointy toed shoes were never part of the deal.


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## dchandler2 (Aug 26, 2008)

*No such thing as a dumb question?*

I am new to this forum. I do not own a BB suit, however, since I found this site I am learning a lot about men's fashions. SO enlighten me. What is a Sack suit and what is the rule for cuffs in the pants. If someone could post a picture in would be helpful.

Signed,
The Rookie


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

dchandler2 said:


> What is a Sack suit


It's what you wear with your bals.


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

dchandler2 said:


> I am new to this forum. I do not own a BB suit, however, since I found this site I am learning a lot about men's fashions. SO enlighten me. What is a Sack suit and what is the rule for cuffs in the pants. If someone could post a picture in would be helpful.
> Signed,
> The Rookie


I am on the blueberry right now and cannot post pictures. I will be happy to explain in the morning. It is not a ridiculous difference than what you are probably thinking about.

PS Charles Mingus was a genius


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## clemsontiger (Jun 9, 2007)

dchandler2 said:


> I am new to this forum. I do not own a BB suit, however, since I found this site I am learning a lot about men's fashions. SO enlighten me. What is a Sack suit and what is the rule for cuffs in the pants. If someone could post a picture in would be helpful.
> 
> Signed,
> The Rookie


The sack suit is a suit whose jacket has very little structure. It does not have darts (pleats above the pockets). It also has natural shoulders (no padding). I believe the standard is a center vent.


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## clemsontiger (Jun 9, 2007)

Take a look at the Trad what I'm wearing and compare to the Fashion what are you wearing and you'll begin to pick up on the differences.


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## clemsontiger (Jun 9, 2007)

Last one I promise. Here is some great technical drawings that Sator provided on a previous post.



Sator said:


> Historically, I should add that I think that 'sack coat' was orignally a generic term in American English for a coat which was NOT a body coat ie a 'lounge coat' in British English. The thing that it lacked in comparison to a body coat was the waist seam. It would appear that only later did the term come to be extended to denote American lounge coats which lacked darts.
> 
> This comes from _Salisbury's System of Actual Measurement and Drafting_, New York, 1866:
> 
> ...


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## playdohh22 (Dec 4, 2007)

dchandler2 said:


> I am new to this forum. I do not own a BB suit, however, since I found this site I am learning a lot about men's fashions. SO enlighten me. What is a Sack suit and what is the rule for cuffs in the pants. If someone could post a picture in would be helpful.
> 
> Signed,
> The Rookie


welcome! i wouldn't say i'm an expert at this, but i'll give it a shot. first off, i would like to say that the sack, to some isn't all that "fashion forward". so, if you're looking to learn more on fashion, head over to the fashion forum. but if you want to find out more about the classic american look, stick around the trad forum. the sack suit in some eyes just aren't "fashion forward", but to me a sack no matter the age(if the sack was made in the 1900s or made nowadays), in my eyes will always be the greatest. the sack is cut fuller than most suits made nowadays. i'll show you the difference between a sack and other suits. lets use a european suits as comparison.

jpress (sack)-

kiton(eu)-

first thing that you can clearly see in the kiton the suit, is the difference in the waist. the kiton has waist suppression, whereas the sack has no waist suppresion, thus creating a much fuller look. second, i would like to point out that a sack has no darts(the lines running along the waist, from breat pocket to flap pocket). i actually have a question myself, how do darts create waist suppression? anyway, back to what i was saying; and even more importantly a sack has little or light padding in the shoulders (it should show your natural shoulder structure/line). look how structured the kiton is in the shoulders, as opposed to the sack(i don't know if i picked the right picture to portray this). also, a sack has three buttons and it is rolled to two. look at the picture of the sack; the third(top) button has a roll in the lapels. some european suits/ fashion forward suits, or whatever you want to call it has 3/2 rolls, as well. and last but not least, a sack has a single/center vent. ok i'm done here. am i missing anything? and sorry, i have no input on the pant cuffs, because i still have much to learn myself, but i believe it should be 1 1/4", or up to your personal preference? anyway, i hope i helped you out at the slightest bit. any connesueirs, please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong or if you have anything to add.


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## playdohh22 (Dec 4, 2007)

i am too late? i think clemsontiger has a better explanation than i do! :icon_pale:


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## clemsontiger (Jun 9, 2007)

playdohh22 said:


> i am too late? i think clemsontiger has a better explanation than i do! :icon_pale:


Thank you for the kind words, but you are incorrect sir. Your explanation was much more technical, and you provided photos that clearly highlighted the essence of the sack.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

In most jackets (e.g., not tweed), darts make me think of surgical incisions, and the removal of organs.


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

playdohh22 said:


> i actually have a question myself, how do darts create waist suppression?


Well, a dart actually removes a piece of fabric - you would gather the fabric between the pocket and the chest and sew the dart in. That effectively gives you less material in teh waist area.

Waist suppression (to a degree) can be achieved on side seams also - even on sack suits, although it is practically never done.


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