# Opinions of Botany 500 suits



## Geoff Gander (Apr 4, 2007)

I read somewhere that Botany 500 was the preferred brand of game show hosts, but what is the general opinion of them here? Are they worth considering if one is looking for an OTR suit?

Many thanks,

Geoff


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Wasn't that back in the 70s? Are they even still a going concern? Where'd they get the name, anyway? Is it like the Indy 500 only the laps are around the National Arboretum?

EDIT: Well, I'll be damned! It does still exist, sort of. Looks like the license the name out to makers. If you're in the market for the wide-lapeled, double-knit _Liar's Club_ host look, I bet they can still hook you up.

SECOND EDIT: This licensee for tailored clothing is: 
TMW MARKETING COMPANY, INC.
A Subsidiary of the *Men's Wearhouse, Inc.
*40650 Encyclopedia Circle
Fremont, CA 94538-2453

There you have it!


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Botony 500 was the game show suit of choice. I don't think they are making these suits anymore. I think they are the equivalent of $800 suit today.


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

Tonyp said:


> Botony 500 was the game show suit of choice. I don't think they are making these suits anymore. I think they are the equivalent of $800 suit today.


I was just going to say:

"Botany 500 is for 80s game show host"


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

IIRC, they dressed the late, great Rod Serling for his unforgettable _Twilight Zone_ intros.

"Submitted for your approval . . . ."


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## 14395 (Mar 10, 2004)

H. Daroff and Sons made the Botany 500 suits but sold their factory a long time ago.
The new buyers let the company go bankrupt and production eventually ceased.
The Botany 500 name is licensed, but the Daroff factory is closed.
When the Daroff family owned the company, it was a very
highly regarded Philadelphia clothing manufacturer.


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## Geoff Gander (Apr 4, 2007)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the information! I've seen a few of them for sale on EBay, and the suits pop up occasionally when doing a Google search.

Geoff


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

They looked smashing on Richard Dawson when he was host of Family Feud.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

Did Bob Barker wear Botany 500 suits past the 80s and into his retirement?


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## 14395 (Mar 10, 2004)

acidicboy said:


> Did Bob Barker wear Botany 500 suits past the 80s and into his retirement?


Only if he kept his old suits. :icon_smile:

The original Botany 500/Daroff factory was closed by then.

The licensees of the name don't produce the same level of product.


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## dcjacobson (Jun 25, 2007)

Dick Van **** wore Botany 500 in his show (1961-1966). I've just been through many of the DVDs, and I thought he looked sharp. Very classy.

Good luck,
Don


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Wow...THERE'S a childhood memory! I recall my dad wearing some when I was young. Do they still make that brand?


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

back then botany 500 was a fashion brand. mid priced. Not a great make, but decent. 
they gave away a lot of clothing for those production credits.

today it is a mediocre suit worth about $2-300.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Shirtmaven said:


> today it is a mediocre suit worth about $2-300.


...which can be purchased from the John Blair catalog.


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## 14395 (Mar 10, 2004)

Shirtmaven said:


> they gave away a lot of clothing for those production credits.


A few of the shows ....

https://www.imdb.com/company/co0045810/


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## gEEk (May 9, 2007)

I bought a couple of Botany 500 suits from MW in 1995. I still have them, and they are in excellent shape (neither has gotten much use). If _I_ were in better shape, they'd still fit! :icon_smile_big:


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

years and years ago, I ordered a pair of Botany 500 shoes through the mail...if their suits are anything like their shoes...I'd probably recommend saving your money...


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## mack11211 (Oct 14, 2004)

PJC in NoVa said:


> IIRC, they dressed the late, great Rod Serling for his unforgettable _Twilight Zone_ intros.
> 
> "Submitted for your approval . . . ."


According to imdb.com, Kuppenheimer dressed Serling in '60/61, and Eagle dressed him from '61 to '64.


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## fullgrain (Jan 5, 2007)

I have a Botany 500 "custom royal" fully canvassed, slim grey sharkskin sack sportcoat from the 60s. Very cool item. Glad to be in the company of Dick Van ****.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I think I remember in the ‘60’s getting a boys gold and black houndstooth sport coat. At the time a family member was married to a man whose family was Botany 500 I believe. His first name was Stuart, very nice man , too good for my relative. The marriage did not last but my fond memories of him have.


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## jc1305us (Jan 13, 2009)

EP said:


> H. Daroff and Sons made the Botany 500 suits but sold their factory a long time ago.
> The new buyers let the company go bankrupt and production eventually ceased.
> The Botany 500 name is licensed, but the Daroff factory is closed.
> When the Daroff family owned the company, it was a very
> highly regarded Philadelphia clothing manufacturer.


When Rod Serling was hosting his follow up to the Twilight Zone, "Night Gallery", he was clothed by a Philadelphia tailor, so that would make sense, that he was wearing Botany 500, into the early 70's.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Something that’s missing from this ancient thread is that Botany 500 paid for the clothes of many television stars and hosts but didn’t always directly provide the clothes. For example, Dick Van ****’s suits on his eponymous show were made by custom tailor Harry Cherry. Telly Savalas had the same arrangement for Kojak. If the clothes impressed you, they probably weren’t actually from Botany 500/Daroff.


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## jc1305us (Jan 13, 2009)

Matt S said:


> Something that's missing from this ancient thread is that Botany 500 paid for the clothes of many television stars and hosts but didn't always directly provide the clothes. For example, Dick Van ****'s suits on his eponymous show were made by custom tailor Harry Cherry. Telly Savalas had the same arrangement for Kojak. If the clothes impressed you, they probably weren't actually from Botany 500/Daroff.


Then Serling was probably wearing Daroff. 👍🏻


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

jc1305us said:


> Then Serling was probably wearing Daroff. 👍🏻


No, I was saying that Botany 500/Daroff sponsored wardrobes but didn't often provide them. These stars usually had custom wardrobes from bespoke tailors, not from ready-to-wear factories. When you see "furnished by Botany 500, tailored by Daroff" (or something to that effect) in the credits, it just means that they paid money to be in the credits and paid for the star's wardrobe. It doesn't mean that Daroff literally tailored the clothes for the star; it means that Daroff tailored Botany 500's clothes and Botany 500 paid to provide clothes. They just frequently didn't provide Botany 500 clothes. This was all cleverly branded and marketed to make us believe everyone on television wore Botany 500-branded clothes made at the Daroff factory, when in fact the stars all had much fancier wardrobes.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Matt S said:


> Something that's missing from this ancient thread is that Botany 500 paid for the clothes of many television stars and hosts but didn't always directly provide the clothes. For example, Dick Van ****'s suits on his eponymous show were made by custom tailor Harry Cherry. Telly Savalas had the same arrangement for Kojak. If the clothes impressed you, they probably weren't actually from Botany 500/Daroff.


That's a big deal. You would think the idea would be that a viewer would like the suit Van ****, Serling, etc. was wearing and would, then, go to the store trying to find it or something similar, but all under the Botany 500 brand.

It's an odd "branding" effort as you, a clothing manufacturer, are, effectively, paying someone to wear not your brand's clothes, but that kinda sorta give the impression that they are the clothes you make.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Fading Fast said:


> That's a big deal. You would think the idea would be that a viewer would like the suit Van ****, Serling, etc. was wearing and would, then, go to the store trying to find it or something similar, but all under the Botany 500 brand.
> 
> It's an odd "branding" effort as you, a clothing manufacturer, are, effectively, paying someone to wear not your brand's clothes, but that kinda sorta give the impression that they are the clothes you make.


People care about the name they see more than anything else. And few people would notice the difference between a suit they saw on a small black-and-white television and what they see in the store. I know people who think they can look like James Bond if they buy a suit from Brooks Brothers. We know that an American suit doesn't look like a British suit or a Tom Ford suit, but most men just count the number of buttons on the front and the colour. On an old television set both of those things were impossible!

Advertising was never an entirely honest practice. It's a field I work in. We word things in ways that are technically true and will tell people what they want to hear.


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

I'd love to know who made the suits that Craig Stevens wore in Peter Gunn. Just incredible.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

peterc said:


> I'd love to know who made the suits that Craig Stevens wore in Peter Gunn. Just incredible.


His suits were officially furnished by Don Richards, but like Dick Van **** he wore suits by tailor Harry Cherry. The cut and button-one style are the same.

Here's an ad for Don Richards, with a photo of Stevens in a beautiful Harry Cherry suit.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Fading Fast said:


> That's a big deal. You would think the idea would be that a viewer would like the suit Van ****, Serling, etc. was wearing and would, then, go to the store trying to find it or something similar, but all under the Botany 500 brand.
> 
> It's an odd "branding" effort as you, a clothing manufacturer, are, effectively, paying someone to wear not your brand's clothes, but that kinda sorta give the impression that they are the clothes you make.


A more extreme example has been seen in sports equipment, where a player has been sponsored by one manufacturer but prefers the equipment made by another, and so has the latter's equipment bearing the logos or other mark for the former. IIRC this would happen with tennis pros and their rackets, but it's also happened with track athletes and footwear.


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

I understand that I do not have the physique of Craig Stevens. Never did. Never will.

But, can someone explain to me why it is SO hard to explain to a tailor to "make me a suit that looks like that." I just don't understand why it is so hard to accomplish.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

peterc said:


> I understand that I do not have the physique of Craig Stevens. Never did. Never will.
> 
> But, can someone explain to me why it is SO hard to explain to a tailor to "make me a suit that looks like that." I just don't understand why it is so hard to accomplish.


It's not you, it's the tailor. I've seen short, heavyset men walk out of a Savile Row tailor looking like that. I don't know if there's any tailor in Los Angeles that still can make a suit like that. You'd have to go to London to get something that good.


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

Thank you - I appreciate the comment.

As an aside, the actor, Gale Gordon, who played Larry Tate on Bewitched was a heavy set man and yet his suits looked just amazing. That's sort of the point I was trying to make.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

peterc said:


> Thank you - I appreciate the comment.
> 
> As an aside, the actor, Gale Gordon, who played Larry Tate on Bewitched was a heavy set man and yet his suits looked just amazing. That's sort of the point I was trying to make.


Gale Gordon was on The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy, but he did indeed look great. David White played Larry Tate.


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

Matt, sorry. Busy day. Appreciate the correction. Both of them looked great in those suits.


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## some_dude (Nov 9, 2008)

peterc said:


> I'd love to know who made the suits that Craig Stevens wore in Peter Gunn. Just incredible.


I would think H. Freeman or Empire could make you a suit like that now.

I always wondered-- what kind of a name is "Botany 500" anyway? Is there some sort of back story on that?


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

some_dude said:


> I would think H. Freeman or Empire could make you a suit like that now.
> 
> I always wondered-- what kind of a name is "Botany 500" anyway? Is there some sort of back story on that?


You need a world-class bespoke tailor to make a suit like that. High-end MTM could possibly do it too, but you're not getting that kind of suit for under $2,500.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2021)

My husband just found brand new Botany 500, tailored by Daroff suit in his grandfathers closet.
It even has label on it. Never worn.
Now we’re interested in it’s value.
Maybe anyone more advanced could help with info?


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## jc1305us (Jan 13, 2009)

mack11211 said:


> According to imdb.com, Kuppenheimer dressed Serling in '60/61, and Eagle dressed him from '61 to '64.


When he started hosting Night Gallery he was wearing Daroff, because he was required to send back the suits "provided by him by a Philadelphia clothier" after season 1 wrapped. (This from "Night Gallery an After Hours Tour") He went on to buy the suits, as NG was picked up for a second (and final 3rd) season.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Guest-603174 said:


> My husband just found brand new Botany 500, tailored by Daroff suit in his grandfathers closet.
> It even has label on it. Never worn.
> Now we're interested in it's value.
> Maybe anyone more advanced could help with info?


Probably $30-40. They're neither rare nor collectable. If it still looks good and fits your husband, it would most valuable if he can wear it.


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Matt, who was Harry Cherry?


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

son of brummell said:


> Matt, who was Harry Cherry?


A Beverly Hills tailor who made for many celebrities, both film and television. He made for numerous television shows where mainstream suit brands were in the credits.

Here's a photo of him tailoring for Kojak: https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/...or-a-suit-by-tailor-harry-news-photo/50413991


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Matt S said:


> Here's a photo of him tailoring for Kojak: https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/...or-a-suit-by-tailor-harry-news-photo/50413991


FWIW Telly Savalas and I were once the last two passengers to get our bags from a Pan Am flight so we were standing pretty close. He had the widest proportions of shoulders and back to height I hade ever seen (until I encountered an acromegalic German banker who was 6 foot both tall and wide).


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

StephenRG said:


> FWIW Telly Savalas and I were once the last two passengers to get our bags from a Pan Am flight so we were standing pretty close. He had the widest proportions of shoulders and back to height I hade ever seen (until I encountered an acromegalic German banker who was 6 foot both tall and wide).


That's impressive. Harry Cherry must have had quite the task tailoring that, but he tailored him beautifully.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Matt S said:


> [Harry Cherry was a] Beverly Hills tailor who made for many celebrities, both film and television. He made for numerous television shows where mainstream suit brands were in the credits.


Thank you, Matt.

The photo of Harry Cherry fitting a jacket for Telly Savalas first appeared in the July 1, 1974 issue of People magazine. Unfortunately, on the Internet, the caption for the picture is not easily available. I found it and will quote it here because I like its dry humor: "Savalas gets measured for a suit by his tailor Harry Cherry. Measuring his ego would take a somewhat longer tape."

Yep. That was Telly.

*******

A Google search readily turns up that one photograph of Harry Cherry with Telly Savalas. Surprisingly, Google doesn't have much else about Mr. Cherry, other than a few fleeting references to his having been a tailor to the stars.

What gives, Google?

Intrigued, I decided to dig further. Here's some more information about Harry Cherry, which I gleaned by searching ProQuest's online archives of the Los Angeles Times.

(I will refer to some newspaper advertisements and articles. I will not be able to reproduce them here-or even quote them extensively-due to copyright protection. I also won't be able to link to them because of how they are embedded in ProQuest's database. If you have a public library card, you might be able to use it to gain free access to ProQuest for yourselves. That's what I do.)

*********

Harry Cherry was a clothier whose shop was located at 410 North Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills, California (at least in the 1950s). His store's phone number was CRestview 1-7125.

He would validate your parking.

Until the summer of 1958, Mr. Cherry wore two hats: he sold ready-made suits, sport coats, slacks, and topcoats, but he also offered full custom tailoring.

In 1958, his off-the-peg suits ranged from $125.00 to $225.00; sport coats from $95.00 to $165.00; slacks from $39.00 to $45.00; and topcoats were $165.00.

Those prices changed on April 28, 1958. On that day, Mr. Cherry put all of his ready-made wares on sale. He wanted to clear them out because he was going "to devote all of his time to expand[ing] his custom tailoring business."

He ran weekly advertisements in the Los Angeles Times from April 28th to July 27, 1958-the last day of the sale. From then on, Mr. Cherry dealt exclusively in custom-made clothes.

As far as his private life was concerned, in November 1963 the LA Times reported that in the spring of 1964, Mr. and Mrs. Cherry would be moving into a two-bedroom home on the 19th floor of the new Wilshire Ardmore Co-operative Apartments in the Westwood district of Los Angeles. According to the LA Times, the Cherrys were "moving from their Beverly Hills mansion with its 70-foot swimming pool 'because [according to the Cherrys] it's too big for us now.'"

**********

"I'm not a mass producer. I'm a class producer."
-Harry Cherry, as quoted by Los Angeles Times staff writer Charles Hillinger in an article about the famous tailor

The article appeared in the June 4, 1974 edition of the LA Times. The headline for the article was "West's Most Costly Tailor Can't Sew a Stitch."

Here are some things Mr. Hillinger tells us about Harry Cherry:

-He "can't thread a needle or sew a stitch."
-His least expensive suit goes for $450.00.
-Mr. Cherry's shop is on the "third floor of a Beverly Hills office building" behind a door that bears only his name (inasmuch as he doesn't rely on "walk-in trade").
-To visit Mr. Cherry, a man needs "money" and-more importantly-"vanity."
-He is a designer of suits. He employs 14 men-"all in their 60s and 70s"-to do the actual cutting and making and sewing.
-Mr. Cherry himself is 67 years old.
-Among his clients are Anthony Quinn, Henry Fonda, Robert Goulet and Dustin Hoffman.
-Besides men in the entertainment field, his customers are movers and shakers in the business world. "They stand here every day with their pants off," says Mr. Cherry.

*******

The remainder of this post is speculation on my part. If anyone knows the facts, I stand ready to be corrected.

So whatever happened to Harry Cherry? If the LA Times article from June 1974 was correct in stating that Mr. Cherry was age 67 at the time, then-depending on his date of birth-he was born in either 1906 or 1907.

My hunch is that Mr. Cherry, tailor to the stars, ascended to the stars some time ago, at which time Saint Peter validated his parking stub. (I really went out on a limb there.) Yet, as celebrated in Hollywood as Harry Cherry was, I couldn't find any obituaries for him. Odd.

I did find an entry in the Social Security Death Index for a person named "Harry Cherry." The Index shows that this Mr. Cherry was born on June 14, 1906 and died on January 20, 2005 (at the ripe old age of 98.5 years). The last residence of this gentleman was Los Angeles, California; specifically in ZIP Code 90024.

Put the pieces together. As of June 4, 1974, when Mr. Hillinger wrote in the Times that Harry Cherry was 67 years old, the Mr. Cherry in the Death Index was 67 (10 days shy of his 68th birthday). And ZIP Code 90024 (the last residence of the Harry Cherry in the Index) includes the tony Westwood neighborhood of Los Angeles, to which Mr. and Mrs. Harry Cherry moved in 1964 (if the LA Times article from 1963 was correct).

The clues seem to add up; hence my suspicion that Harry Cherry the tailor passed away on January 20, 2005-almost exactly 16 years ago.

But why no obituary? Or at least one that I could find? Shaky speculation: Tailor Harry Cherry lived so long beyond his time of prominence (almost to age 99!) that by the time he died, he had long since vanished from the radar screen of the media. Without a publicist (and why would there be?) to announce the sad event, no media outlets would have conveyed the news, assuming they would have cared if they had known.

I suspect my deductions are correct, but I'm not certain. Anyone know for sure?


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Charles Dana said:


> Thank you, Matt.
> 
> The photo of Harry Cherry fitting a jacket for Telly Savalas first appeared in the July 1, 1974 issue of People magazine. Unfortunately, on the Internet, the caption for the picture is not easily available. I found it and will quote it here because I like its dry humor: "Savalas gets measured for a suit by his tailor Harry Cherry. Measuring his ego would take a somewhat longer tape."
> 
> ...


Thank you for the information! That is fascinating. I suspect that Cherry was not his real name. Changing your name in Hollywood wasn't uncommon back then, and that could explain difficulty in finding more information about him. Or maybe his or his parents' names were changed when they arrived from Europe. My ancestors were tailors in Europe before they came to America when their name was changed, so maybe Cherry was in the same boat!


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Matt S said:


> I suspect that Cherry was not his real name. Changing your name in Hollywood wasn't uncommon back then, and that could explain difficulty in finding more information about him.


Good points. I agree.



> My ancestors were tailors in Europe before they came to America when their name was changed, so maybe Cherry was in the same boat!


No pun intended, of course.............


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

I love this thread. Even as a youngster, I admired Mr. Savalas's suits in Kojak. The show itself was also amazing, as it captured NYC 1973-1978 in all its glorious grittiness.


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## Plucky (May 5, 2021)

I was doing some ancestry research and found your thread (no pun intended!)
Harry Cherry was my grandfather's brother.
Cherry is indeed their family name, shortened from a much longer name when their parents immigrated to the USA from what is now Ukraine, before their births.
The family moved to LA and my grandfather was an extra in the biz while Harry became a clothier. You know the rest of the story...


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Plucky said:


> I was doing some ancestry research and found your thread (no pun intended!)
> Harry Cherry was my grandfather's brother.
> Cherry is indeed their family name, shortened from a much longer name when their parents immigrated to the USA from what is now Ukraine, before their births.
> The family moved to LA and my grandfather was an extra in the biz while Harry became a clothier. You know the rest of the story...


Thank you for sharing this. Is there anything else you can share about Harry Cherry? There's not much information about him on the internet, and I think he deserves more recognition.


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## Cerebral Soup (9 mo ago)

I recently bought a Botany 500 suit from Poshmark because the price was really low and I am rebuilding my wardrobe. This thing fit me really well and the cut was definitely generous. I would place it around the 1950's (seller wasn't sure of the year). I have not seen pleats like this except in old gangster films, never in real life.

Now I am hooked. I have been scouring and searching for their suits wherever I can find them. I found another on eBay that was also made very well, just a different cut.

That being said, all I can find in my size now are blazers and sport coats. If anyone has a 48R or 48L suit from Botany 500, please message me. But if your chest is anywhere from 40" to 44", there is a treasure trove of Botany 500 suits out there waiting to be purchased.

Botany 500 went bankrupt in 1973, but the brand name was bought. If you see anything Botany 500 that was made after 1973, it was probably made in a different country and not at the mills in New Jersey.


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

I have two US-made Botany 500 trench coats that are of superb quality and in mint condition. They fit me well, and they are in beautiful colours -- olive and tan. I am especially fond of the olive which has a very light bronze mixed in with the green -- quite rare to find this shade, in my experience. I picked them up from thrift shops a couple of years ago, and one cost about $5, the other around $12. Two outstanding bargains and two more reasons why I can't resist scouring the thrift shops, LOL.

I also have sport coats and ties by Botany 500, again of excellent quality. It's a shame they had to go bankrupt and get bought out and outsourced production. But it's been the way of the world, or at least of this country. I often wonder if we have any traditions or skilled craftsmen remaining here, or whether the rush to create cheap clothing has displaced all of that permanently.


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