# Charcoal versus Navy



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

The question is often asked on this forum about what suit to purchase first when assembling a wardrobe. Invariably, one respondent suggests a charcoal business suit; another respondent suggests one in dark navy blue. So let's have the case for each one -- their advantages and disadvantages as a suit color.


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

*1. In Praise of Navy*

A colour of youthful boldness mixed with stern character and yet never lacking in maturity. A muted brilliance and radiance. Beau Brummell would have surely approved of this description for this was the preferred colour for his coats:










Of course, in his time his coats were described as dark blue but the fashionable names for colours change. Charcoal was once even called London fog grey in Italy.

*2. In Praise of Charcoal*

More quiet than even black, and at once more uplifting without ever once become too sure of itself, or too outspoken. It lends its wearer a dignified, graceful maturity.

*3. Of Practical Things*

Navy's brilliance makes it a better colour for summer and those quietly seeking attention such as public speakers and politicians. At night midnight navy can look blacker than black.

A charcoal coat lends the wearer a sense of greater maturity. Those endowed with silver coloured hair are particularly flattered by this colour. The best thing of all about a solid charcoal lounge coat is that you can always use a pair of morning trousers as spare trousers, or add a dove grey waistcoat later for greater versatility :teacha:


----------



## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

That just about sums it up.

I also feel that navy is easier to match and, yes, it is more vigorous.


----------



## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

My two primary suits consists of a solid charcoal and a solid navy. I like them both equally well. While I can't offer any valid quantitative arguments about one vs. the other, I can tell you what I find to be true in my case. What I find is that I tend to wear the charcoal suit about two times to one over the navy suit. I've really never thought about why this is. It just seems that when it's time to put on a suit the charcoal one seems to fit the bill better, although in fact either would have been fine.

I will both agree and disagree with a couple of items brought out in Sator's post. I agree that the navy suit seems to be a better choice in the summer. Perhaps it's the brilliance of the color as he suggests, I don't really know. I just know that I do tend to go with navy more in the summer, but since I seem to wear a suit more in the cooler months I end up wearing charcoal more.

I don't necessarily agree with navy being better for public speaking. I do a fair amount of this and don't see that it makes much difference.

My first suit was navy; however, based on my own experiences I would choose charcoal if I had it to do over. But you can't really go wrong either way.

Cruiser


----------



## Northeastern (Feb 11, 2007)

My first suit was Charcoal rather than navy. I imagine should I have a son someday I'll have him acquire charcoal as well. I prefer blue shirts to white, so I always thought the charcoal color suited me (terrible pun) better given that style quirk.


----------



## miamimike (Oct 18, 2007)

I prefer navy if I was buying my first suit. I feel I have more options with shirt colors and there is something about a navy suit that just looks great. Maybe its the more options you have with shoe colors to spice it up (dark brown, chili, cognac, merlot, burgandy, and the dreaded black. 

But charcoal is also great looking and you can mix many colors with it. I have one black suit and the rest of mine are navy, different shades of charcoal/grey and all with and without pinstripes. Yes its not alot of variety (no tans, olives, white, etc) but its what looks best on me and I prefer mostly limited colors of dress shirts (shades of blue, greys, and pinks only).


----------



## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

medwards said:


> The question is often asked on this forum about what suit to purchase first when assembling a wardrobe. Invariably, one respondent suggests a charcoal business suit; another respondent suggests one in dark navy blue. So let's have the case for each one -- their advantages and disadvantages as a suit color.


Understanding that a Navy Blazer is a standard requirement in every man's wardrobe, I approached the situation by buying a charcoal suit first, and shortly thereafter, I picked up a Navy Blazer.

Having a feel for how I look in both colors, I think Gray looks better - so I went on to purchase a slate gray suit next.

I have since added a Navy suit to my collection, but I still think that Charcoal is the best place to start a new wardrobe.


----------



## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Grey - the colour of a British winter. A dour colour for serious people.

Blue - the colour of summer. A bright colour for bright people.

Not much to add but ? your signature mrkleen.


----------



## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

IMO, there really aren't any cons of either navy or charcoal. In a business setting, you can't go wrong with either. Both look great in conservative or less-conservative work environements. Personally, I like charcoal a little bit better because I just like the color more. You can pair a lot with both colors, but you can pair more of the colors that I like with charcoal than navy.
However, I went to catholic schools from 1st grade all the way through high school. I had to wear navy blue pants with a white button-down shirt (with our school emblem on it), with a blue/white striped tie every single day. Even though I have been out of high school for about 10 years now, you can't blame me for choosing charcoal first after wearing navy everyday for 12 years.


----------



## HISMES PARIS (Mar 26, 2008)

The first suit has to be charcoal, and here's why. If it's your first suit, chances are high that you'll be using it for things like interviews and (if all goes well) your first real job. In an interview or other impression-forming situation, the last thing you want to do with your clothing is draw attention to yourself in a negative fashion. You want to look professional, smart, and appropriate; it's not the time to take chances.

That being said, there is no consensus in the general population about whether black or brown shoes are appropriate with navy. I happen to think brown, but I know plenty of people who consider that a _faux pas_. The last thing you want to do is wear black shoes and a navy suit for an interviewer who thinks you should be wearing brown. On the other hand, there is no question that charcoal suits require black shoes. You can't go wrong with a charcoal suit, black shoes, white shirt, and some variety of power tie. Additionally, black shoes are more formal, so you won't be tempted to wear brown as you might with a navy suit.


----------



## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

HISMES PARIS said:


> The first suit has to be charcoal, and here's why. If it's your first suit, chances are high that you'll be using it for things like interviews and (if all goes well) your first real job. In an interview or other impression-forming situation, the last thing you want to do with your clothing is draw attention to yourself in a negative fashion. You want to look professional, smart, and appropriate; it's not the time to take chances.
> 
> That being said, there is no consensus in the general population about whether black or brown shoes are appropriate with navy. I happen to think brown, but I know plenty of people who consider that a _faux pas_. The last thing you want to do is wear black shoes and a navy suit for an interviewer who thinks you should be wearing brown. On the other hand, there is no question that charcoal suits require black shoes. You can't go wrong with a charcoal suit, black shoes, white shirt, and some variety of power tie. Additionally, black shoes are more formal, so you won't be tempted to wear brown as you might with a navy suit.


I wear my AE Cambridges in burgundy shell cordovan with charcoal fairly regularly.


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

HISMES PARIS said:


> The first suit has to be charcoal, and here's why. The last thing you want to do is wear black shoes and a navy suit for an interviewer who thinks you should be wearing brown.


Navy is fine for a job interview. Absolutely fine. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. Black shoes are de rigeur for an interview.

The thought of brown shoes with a city lounge at an interview horrify me. *Utterly* horrify me!!!!


----------



## ZX758 (Nov 26, 2007)

*Navy Suit with Bown Shoes*

I ALWAYS wear brown shoes when I wear a navy suit...I think it kind of goes hand in hand. I usually wear a dark brown shoe with the navy suit. I could never bring myself to wear black shoes with a blue suit.


----------



## WestIndianArchie (Mar 12, 2008)

To my eye, the typical charcoal suit "pops" more than the typical navy suit.

Plus you can wear black and brown shoes with a Charcoal suit. 

Blue/Black can be a no-no depending on who you talk to, how you feel.


----------



## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

*If I recall correctly,*

Pat Buchanan, when asked "what do you advise a young man with high hopes needs when he comes to Washington DC?"

"A navy blue suit, white shirt and a red tie".

-a fellow american


----------



## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

ZX758 said:


> I ALWAYS wear brown shoes when I wear a navy suit...I think it kind of goes hand in hand. I usually wear a dark brown shoe with the navy suit. I could never bring myself to wear black shoes with a blue suit.


I agree that I could never get myself to wear black shoes with a navy suit. When I wear navy, I usually mix it up between dark brown and burgundy. That being said, HISMES sort of does have a point. Just because you always wear brown with navy, doesn't mean that everyone else does or likes the look. Even though I think it is kinda far-fetched, you might be interviewed by someone who doesn't like the look. 
Hopefully, the person doing the interviewing wouldn't care so much about whether or not you are wearing brown or black shoes with navy because both are commonly worn. Honestly, they probably wouldn't even notice. The common man doesn't notice the things that most of us on this forum notice.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

HISMES PARIS said:


> The first suit has to be charcoal, and here's why. If it's your first suit, chances are high that you'll be using it for things like interviews and (if all goes well) your first real job. In an interview or other impression-forming situation, the last thing you want to do with your clothing is draw attention to yourself in a negative fashion. You want to look professional, smart, and appropriate; it's not the time to take chances.
> 
> That being said, there is no consensus in the general population about whether black or brown shoes are appropriate with navy. I happen to think brown, but I know plenty of people who consider that a _faux pas_. The last thing you want to do is wear black shoes and a navy suit for an interviewer who thinks you should be wearing brown. On the other hand, there is no question that charcoal suits require black shoes. You can't go wrong with a charcoal suit, black shoes, white shirt, and some variety of power tie. Additionally, black shoes are more formal, so you won't be tempted to wear brown as you might with a navy suit.


I too would recommend charcoal as a first suit, but my take is different.

I'm one of those who adheres to the idea that black shoes are the only appropriate shoes with a navy suit, whereas a charcoal suit can go well with shoes in either black or many of the various brown colorways (including burgundy or oxblood).

Similarly, I think charcoal matches more readily with more shades of shirts and ties than navy does, so I give charcoal the nod on versatility.

Once you get that first charcoal suit, however, you should start saving for the navy one, since no gentleman's wardrobe is complete without a good navy suit.


----------



## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Sator said:


> Navy is fine for a job interview. Absolutely fine. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. Black shoes are de rigeur for an interview.
> 
> The thought of brown shoes with a city lounge at an interview horrify me. *Utterly* horrify me!!!!


+1 - How can navy blue ever not be appropriate? I think again that it is really a toss up subject to personal preference. Sator pointed out the differences rather well. But even navy is fairly formal. Keep in mind that that same color in a darker shade is appropriate for evening attire.

The one point I am unsure about where I'd like Sator to weigh in again is concerning the color shoes. I was raised with my mother's early advice that black and blue don't go (and no, that was not advice to discourage fist fights). Obviously, in the right conditions (evening wear) it is fine and elegant. But do burgundy or cordovan pass for city wear? Professionally, should one be concerned that the interviewer will feel that black shoes won't go with a navy suit? Obviously this is an important point to discuss as many studies and surveys have shown that shoes are among the first things that interviewers notice and pay attention to on an interviewee.

Cordovan


----------



## JayJay (Oct 8, 2007)

I reach for my navy suits far more than my charcoal. Navy is my favorite color and blue and navy are the best looking colors on me. 

I wear either black or cordovan shoes with navy suits. Right now I'm wearing a navy pinstripe suit and Alden #8 shell longwings. Yesterday was a navy solid suit with black shell longwings.


----------



## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

My first suit was a navy blue surge. I also had a pair of gray flannels and I would wear the blue jacket with the gray flannels as money was tight. I didn't buy a blue blazer for about a year. I bought a gray pinstripe as my second suit. Also wanted a pinstripe in gray. This was my work horse suit for many years. between the 3 outfits and a pair of tan gabs that I picked up I was set for the week.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

HISMES PARIS said:


> The first suit has to be charcoal, and here's why. If it's your first suit, chances are high that you'll be using it for things like interviews and (if all goes well) your first real job. In an interview or other impression-forming situation, the last thing you want to do with your clothing is draw attention to yourself in a negative fashion. You want to look professional, smart, and appropriate; it's not the time to take chances.
> 
> That being said, there is no consensus in the general population about whether black or brown shoes are appropriate with navy. I happen to think brown, but I know plenty of people who consider that a _faux pas_. The last thing you want to do is wear black shoes and a navy suit for an interviewer who thinks you should be wearing brown. On the other hand, there is no question that charcoal suits require black shoes. You can't go wrong with a charcoal suit, black shoes, white shirt, and some variety of power tie. Additionally, black shoes are more formal, so you won't be tempted to wear brown as you might with a navy suit.


The "Luddite", "Roetzel-thumping bigot" that I am, I just look this stuff up in the book(s) and say "first suit is navy", skip charcoal because I do not fancy it, and then say "second suit is gray", but this actually has a logical argument that I can appreciate. I might even re-consider...


----------



## HISMES PARIS (Mar 26, 2008)

Sator said:


> Navy is fine for a job interview. Black shoes are de rigeur for an interview.





ZX758 said:


> I ALWAYS wear brown shoes when I wear a navy suit...I think it kind of goes hand in hand. I could never bring myself to wear black shoes with a blue suit.





PJC in NoVa said:


> I'm one of those who adheres to the idea that black shoes are the only appropriate shoes with a navy suit





Cordovan said:


> I was raised with my mother's early advice that black and blue don't go. Professionally, should one be concerned that the interviewer will feel that black shoes won't go with a navy suit?





JayJay said:


> I wear either black or cordovan shoes with navy suits.


I think the responses on this thread should be a clear indication that there is no consensus about what shoe color fits navy best.



Sator said:


> Navy is fine for a job interview. Absolutely fine. Never let anyone tell you otherwise.





Cordovan said:


> How can navy blue ever not be appropriate?


If I may redirect, my intention was not to say that a navy suit would be inappropriate for an interview. Clearly, it is a staple in a man's wardrobe, and I am not indicating that it is any less formal than charcoal. My argument, rather, was that charcoal is a better bet because you won't run into problems about what shoe color to wear (see above), and, as Cordovan said, shoes are an important part of an interview outfit.

And Orsini, thanks for the compliment. I'd like to think not all of my sartorial decisions follow such starched reasoning, but that may be a delusion.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

HISMES PARIS said:


> charcoal is a better bet because you won't run into problems about what shoe color to wear


I agree.


----------



## JayJay (Oct 8, 2007)

HISMES PARIS said:


> ...charcoal is a better bet because you won't run into problems about what shoe color to wear...


I disagree. I don't have problems with selecting the color of shoes for my navy suits.


----------



## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

As much as I like navy and other blues, it is a fact that matching them with other blue items is not a sure thing. A smoky blue suit looks stupid against a royal blue tie, and a navy that has a little red doesn't take so well to cool accessories. Charcoal (or darker grey) that doesn't tilt too obviously to blue or brown is more forgiving. 

They both look fine with black shoes.


----------



## ilikeyourstyle (Apr 24, 2007)

I prefer charcoal suits because all my shirts go well with charcoal. The same can't be said of a navy suit. Thus I think charcoal suits are more versatile.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

HISMES PARIS said:


> ...
> 
> And Orsini, thanks for the compliment...


I am still ruminating on that (sound of gears grinding)


----------



## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

I think a navy suit is more versatile than a charcoal suit as it is better for social functions. White and Blue shirts both go well with either suit. I'd wear a navy, red, burgundy, gold, or silver tie with either suit, though I think more ties go with charcoal (not a significant problem). However, I do prefer charcoal as a first suit. I think most people have a navy blazer before they get a suit, so why start off with a navy blazer and a navy suit if you can have more variation? I think the arguments on both sides have valid points and it really just comes down to personal preference. But at least we all know that solid navy and charcoal are the two most versatile suits.

Now how about this: Is a solid suit in a plain weave or twill weave (not herringbone) better for a first suit?


----------



## Des Esseintes (Aug 16, 2005)

I have gone through a full turn on this question over the last 4 or 5 years. I have always been a great proponent of the colour navy, for suits, for cars, for many other things. 
Nowadays, I prefer charcoal suits, and I believe the reason for that change in my mind was that charcoal suitings, at least for the more traditional suitings that I prefer, more often than not come in a somewhat mottled colour rather than a true solid, somewaht similar to the effect of flannel, which, for me, adds visual interest to the suit while at the same time providing a perfectly acceptable and sufficitently formal attire for almost any daytime occasion (leisurely pursuits only , of course, to be added for Sator's consolation).
I would also argue that charcoal suits go with a broader range of colours for shirts and accessories than navy blue ones, including brown suede shoes which I personally wear with charcoal suits but not usually with nay blue ones.
Finally, what had some additional negative impact on my perception of navy suits is the fact that many staff "uniforms", ie, the unspeakable 120% man-made fibre one-size-fits-no-one regulation suits, worn by shop assistants in London supermarkets and similar establishments tend to be navy blue (unless they are black, of course) - while I agree that well-cut navy blue suits made from a proper cloth can evoke all the positive connotations of a smart uniform, these ubiquitous navy blue polyester monstrosities clearly have the opposite effect. 

dE


----------



## Moose Maclennan (Apr 20, 2006)

The charcoal suit, white shirt, power/repp tie is what I see all the time here. Maybe reason enough to choose that.
I feel that navy is less severe, usually more flattering and can be accessorised more easily for a more casual look than charcoal can be.
One big plus is that, in the right cut and material, the jacket can double as a blazer in a starter wardrobe.


----------



## whistle_blower71 (May 26, 2006)

Sator said:


> Navy is fine for a job interview. Absolutely fine. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. Black shoes are de rigeur for an interview.
> 
> The thought of brown shoes with a city lounge at an interview horrify me. *Utterly* horrify me!!!!


If the interview is with a traditional English law firm and it is your first job from University, I would er on the side of caution and wear grey over blue. Blue is still considered a little "fast" on a younger man in conservative circles. Obviously worn with black shoes.

*W_B*


----------



## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Matt S said:


> I think a navy suit is more versatile than a charcoal suit as it is better for social functions.


I tremendously disagree with this. Charcoal is just as excellent for social functions as Navy is. I don't see why anybody would think otherwise.


----------



## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Audi S5 TC said:


> I tremendously disagree with this. Charcoal is just as excellent for social functions as Navy is. I don't see why anybody would think otherwise.


Because it is such a dull colour.


----------



## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Des Esseintes said:


> I would also argue that charcoal suits go with a broader range of colours for shirts and accessories than navy blue ones, including brown suede shoes which I personally wear with charcoal suits but not usually with nay blue ones.
> dE


I also tremendously disagree with this. Both Navy and charcoal go with equally broad ranges of colors for shirts and accessories.

Of course, Navy looks abominable with any cufflinks and fabric knots (silk or otherwise) with black in them.

Charcoal, OTOH, looks just as abominable with any cuff links and fabric knots with shades of brown say from walnut (like the shade of brown used for genuine high gloss burl walnut wood in a luxury vehicle, which is about half way between mahogany and parchment) and darker.

The thing I disagree with most by far is that charcoal looks better with brown shoes (suede, leather or otherwise) than Navy. Shoes in all shades of brown look abominable with all shades of grey, especially charcoal.

However, shoes in all really dark shades of brown look great with Navy. However, shoes in all shades of brown that is anything lighter than really dark (including some shades of brown that are dark but not really dark) and especially shoes in all shades of beige look just as abominable with Navy as they do with all shades of gray.

Gray suits (especially suits in Oxford gray-the gray equivalent of midnight blue and charcoal-the gray equivalent of Navy and, perhaps, the gray equivalent of charcoal blue) should never be worn with shoes in any colors other than black. I hate burgundy and oxblood shoes, otherwise burgundy and oxblood shoes with any shade of gray works, too. Just not any shades of brown or beige, please?

Gray and brown together is so abominable looking. I can't believe people like these colors together. It is so disgusting.


----------



## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

*Solids Only?*

Are we discussing strictly navy and charcoal solids or does this discussion include pinstripe/chalk stripes/etc.? I would assume that solids are viewed as more formal than stripes.

Among other suits, I have 3 navy stripe suits (1 SB pinstripe, 1 DB chalk stripe and 1 SB bar stripe (acutally sets of 3 closely-spaced light blue pinstripes)) and 1 solid navy flannel DB, plus 3 charcoal stripe suits (1 SB multistripe; 1 DB pinstripe and 1 DB chark stripe). I have 2 DB gray solids - 1 slate gray and 1 lighter gray in a "fishscale" worsted.

Perhaps I need a lighter-weight navy solid or a true solid charcoal, but it's not priority for me right now.


----------



## Des Esseintes (Aug 16, 2005)

Audi S5 TC said:


> Shoes in all shades of brown look abominable with all shades of grey, especially charcoal.
> Gray and brown together is so abominable looking. I can't believe people like these colors together. It is so disgusting.


Audi S5 TC - do you note a slight inconsistency between your statements and the first line of your signature?

I am always amazed by the dogmatic statements many knowledgeable members of this board issue on whatever topic is discussed. I was probably brought up in a way that will forever make me a lost cause for all the corporate assertiveness trainings...

dE


----------



## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Audi S5 TC said:


> Gray and brown together is so abominable looking. I can't believe people like these colors together. It is so disgusting.


While I don't think it is "abominable" or "disgusting", I don't think grey and brown look particularly good together; however, having said that there is a shade of brown that almost looks grey. But even that doesn't look good with brown shoes in my opinion. I once had a brown suit that was this shade and when I wore it my co-workers would refer to it as being grey, and when I wore a brown belt and shoes with it they thought I was mismatched. I think that most outside of this forum tend to think grey and brown are not complimentary colors.

I think the truth of the matter is that either a solid charcoal or navy suit is a good choice for a first suit. There is no wrong answer here. As far as I'm concerned they are interchangable with each being equally good for both business and social functions. I personally prefer charcoal socially because I like some of the monochrome looks I can get with it by mixing shades of grey, but that's just me.

It's all about personal preference, nothing more. You will most likely end up owning both anyway so whichever one you buy first is of no consequence. Either will work just fine as a first, or only, suit.

Cruiser


----------



## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

+1 Cruiser!

I think the correct answer lies in the wearer's personal preference: what do _you _look good in?


----------



## alphadelta (Oct 2, 2007)

Wait for suits to go on sale at your local shop and buy one of each.

AD


----------



## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

LD111134 said:


> Are we discussing strictly navy and charcoal solids or does this discussion include pinstripe/chalk stripes/etc.? I would assume that solids are viewed as more formal than stripes.
> 
> Among other suits, I have 3 navy stripe suits (1 SB pinstripe, 1 DB chalk stripe and 1 SB bar stripe (acutally sets of 3 closely-spaced light blue pinstripes)) and 1 solid navy flannel DB, plus 3 charcoal stripe suits (1 SB multistripe; 1 DB pinstripe and 1 DB chark stripe). I have 2 DB gray solids - 1 slate gray and 1 lighter gray in a "fishscale" worsted.
> 
> Perhaps I need a lighter-weight navy solid or a true solid charcoal, but it's not priority for me right now.


I believe we are discussing solids. Striped suits are not very versatile and are pretty much only appropriate for business.


----------



## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

We could go on forever about which one is better than the other and/or more versatile, but it doesn't really matter. There is no right or wrong answer. What colors people wear has to do with their taste. That's it. I do enjoy hearing all the opinions, but arguing over which is better is just useless.


----------



## HISMES PARIS (Mar 26, 2008)

Orsini said:


> I am still ruminating on that (sound of gears grinding)


You said my structured argument may have persuaded you, which I consider a compliment.



alphadelta said:


> Wait for suits to go on sale at your local shop and buy one of each.


Amen. And get a pinstripe in one of the colors as well. Such wisdom can only come out of Colorado. Where in Denver are you AD?


----------



## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Cordovan;747128 I was raised with my mother's early advice that black and blue don't go (and no said:


> That's because it is a rule for women. They can wear navy shoes.


----------



## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

culverwood said:


> Because it is such a dull colour.


Dull!? Not at all! It looks good on its own and is perhaps the most (by far) versatile color one can wear.

I often tell friends of mine that contrary to popular belief, black is hard to match to. However, gray is hard not to match. Take advantage of the gray and if it's too dull for you, find an exciting tie you would not otherwise be able to wear.

Cordovan


----------



## p.o.t.u.s (Feb 28, 2008)

I strongly prefer charcoal. I think there are a lot more color comobnations achievable with charcol than with navy. If I were going to pick one color to wear exclusively, charcoal would be it.

A sad day that would be though... :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

whistle_blower71 said:


> ...Blue is still considered a little "fast" on a younger man in conservative circles.


That is interesting to hear. I did not know this. 

For a fat boy, in the United States at a suit company in a suit industry, the first three suits *could* be: 

Navy solid 2-button side-vent SB suit (1st interview) 
Solid Dark Grey 2-button side-vent SB suit (2nd interview) 
Dark Grey-pinstripe three-piece 2-button side-vent SB suit (3rd, "screening", interview, most authoritative suit, ideal for dealing with American Brahman) 
Note that charcoal is omitted as I simply do not fancy it.


----------



## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

Orsini said:


> That is interesting to hear. I did not know this.
> 
> For a fat boy, in the United States at a suit company in a suit industry, the first three suits *could* be:
> 
> ...


What about for those who aren't fat?


----------



## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

ChicagoMediaMan-27 said:


> What about for those who aren't fat?


They can get a good deal on all those leftover charcoal suits that the fat guys didn't buy. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

ChicagoMediaMan-27 said:


> What about for those who aren't fat?


Actually, these three items on my list are not "fat boy specific". If you feel so inclined, you can look it up in Molloy.

Of course, you could also fatten up...


----------



## Fuzzypuppy (Mar 30, 2008)

JRR said:


> That's because it is a rule for women. They can wear navy shoes.


Quite true! I had a young female colleague express surprise at black shoes with a blue suit, with the idea that she only wore blue shoes with blue suits.

I was speechless.


----------



## Bird's One View (Dec 31, 2007)

Orsini, by "dark gray" do you mean a gray slightly lighter than charcoal?


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Bird's One View said:


> Orsini, by "dark gray" do you mean a gray slightly lighter than charcoal?


Well, Molloy says "dark gray". I no longer have my Pantone gizmo, but for me that would probably be what JAB calls "Oxford Gray" or "Cambridge Gray".

Oxford Gray

https://www.josbank.com/templates/c...m?pic=/Images/Catalog/ProductImages/9028e.jpg

Cambridge Gray (these are trousers)

https://www.josbank.com/templates/c...Catalog/ProductImages/AltImages/6931_149b.jpg

This all may be skewed by the fact that I am partial to shades of gray...

To me (slightly color blind), charcoal looks black, and, for some reason, I simply do not fancy it...


----------



## emptym (Feb 22, 2008)

To me, navy looks friendlier, and charcoal seems more severe. Each is an advantage at times.

For a first interview, I'd wear a navy suit w/ plain black captoes.


----------



## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

emptym said:


> To me, navy looks friendlier, and charcoal seems more severe.


The thing is that this is such a divided issue and there is no way for one to know in advance if he would be interviewing with someone who thnks like you. So if you wear the navy suit and your interview is with someone on the other side of the fence who prefers charcoal, you are no better off.

Fortunately for all this is a non-issue either way. Either one is an excellent choice. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I just interviewed a bunch of people for an opening at my office--a fairly important position--and the guy I hired wore a dark suit to both interviews but I have to admit that for the life of me I can't recall whether it was dark gray or navy . . . I guess I'm one of those sartorialists who pays a lot more attention to his own attire than he does to the raiment of others.

Had he not worn a dark suit (whether navy or gray) I bet I would have noticed that, but his actual choice, whichever it was, was obviously a safe one.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Orsini said:


> Well, Molloy says "dark gray". I no longer have my Pantone gizmo, but for me that would probably be what JAB calls "Oxford Gray" or "Cambridge Gray".
> 
> Oxford Gray
> 
> ...


Molloy does not seem to mention charcoal specifically at all and says black is "more authoritative than dark blue but is too powerful for most men and should rarely be worn because of its funeral overtones."


----------



## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Chances are - if you have to ask, you need charcoal.

If you have to ask you are obviously indecisive or sartorially green. Having a color to work with as an indecisive person could be detrimental. Charcoal makes choices easy because anything you chose will not clash with it in any way. Build from there, and just work with your shirt & tie combos, then branch into suit colors after mastering your own style in shirt-tie combos.

Hope that helps. Both suits are fine.


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

We've had this discussion about cambridge, oxford, and charcoal grey before.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=72065&highlight=cambridge+grey&page=3

I have found that Alan is correct and that JAB has oxford and cambridge reversed from most people - specifically from any of the HSM or IAG brands.

These are oxford, cambridge, and charcoal in 'JAB speak'. I have all three of these flannel trousers.

https://www.josbank.com/templates/c...Catalog/ProductImages/AltImages/4675_004b.jpg
https://www.josbank.com/templates/c.../Catalog/ProductImages/AltImages/134_004b.jpg
https://www.josbank.com/templates/c.../Catalog/ProductImages/AltImages/134_005b.jpg

I actually think the Cambridge might be correctly named and Oxford lies between Cambridge and Charcoal. I think what JAB calls Oxford is correctly called something else.

All I know is I all three shades are necessary. Finding solid grey suits in anything except charcoal OTR or MTM in basic books <$750 is a chore.


----------



## AgentX (Mar 1, 2008)

I'd always recommend a charcoal suit first.

It's neutral and lets you build a bunch of different looks easily, and people don't tend to notice the suit's color, which helps when you're wearing the same one over and over. Plus, I like gray suits more than blue ones. That's really all I need to know.

But if someone wanted a blue suit instead, it'd be just as appropriate for an interview or any other occasion. This is sort of a silly argument. You look best wearing something you like, so that's really the important thing.


----------



## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

*Charcoal Brown*

I just purchased a 3-button SB Canali in a very dark, charcoal brown solid. I will wear it as a subtitute for charcoal grey because the suit's shade is virtually indistinguishable from "true" charcoal grey, unless you are up close. I already own a 3-button SB Jack Victor in "Cambridge grey" solid and I wanted to move into charcoal solid.

IMHO, the charcoal brown solid is as conservative as charcoal grey solid but just a tad more interesting.


----------



## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

LD111134 said:


> IMHO, the charcoal brown solid is as conservative as charcoal grey solid but just a tad more interesting./quote]
> 
> I agree, but for someone who only has a couple of suits and must wear them all the time do you really want the suit to be "more interesting". You want it to fade into the background while your shirts and ties are what gets noticed. This way it doesn't stand out that you are wearing the same suit several times a week.
> 
> ...


----------



## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> LD111134 said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO, the charcoal brown solid is as conservative as charcoal grey solid but just a tad more interesting./quote]
> ...


----------



## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

LD111134 said:


> Cruiser said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, Cruiser, I have twenty suits. I was only mentioning the solid greys.
> ...


----------



## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

Thanks, Cruiser...and I do agree with your assessment. 

Now we're all on the same page.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I say grey. Navy isn't navy anymore, especially when people get to choose from super light fabrics with less texture. In Brummels day navy glowed on those dense heavy fabrics. Anywho... I in general believe gray is more versatile... you can even spell it with an "e" or an "a".


----------



## thinman (Jan 21, 2005)

Although I prefer navy, if I could own only one suit it would be charcoal gray because I feel more comfortable wearing a charcoal gray suit to a funeral.

Navy and charcoal gray suits are equally acceptable to me in other social or business situations and I'll wear black, brown, or burgundy shoes with either color.


----------



## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

thinman said:


> Although I prefer navy, if I could own only one suit it would be charcoal gray because I feel more comfortable wearing a charcoal gray suit to a funeral.
> 
> Navy and charcoal gray suits are equally acceptable to me in other social or business situations and I'll wear black, brown, or burgundy shoes with either color.


Hi there thinman, long time, no see. How are you doing?

BTW, a while back, you said that you now buy your suits bespoke. Which tailor do you buy your bespoke suits from?

If you are up to doing so, please post pictures here on AAAC and/or on SF sometime? The pictures of you in your bespoke suits that you post here on AAAC and/or SF can be in one of your reply messages to this topic or in a topic that you post yourself (either way is excellent with me). TIA!!!!!


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

LD111134 said:


> ...I have twenty suits...


Golly! My hero!


----------



## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

should have been a poll.

i vote for charcoal. so handsome.


----------



## miamimike (Oct 18, 2007)

*color shoes with dark charcoal suit?*

I prefer grey suits to black ones. But dark navy is my favorite due to being able to wear different shades of brown shoes (saddle, chilli, chestnut, brown etc).

I wanted to get your opinions on what color shoes can you wear with a dark charcoal suit? I already know black is ok but Im looking for something more exciting. I was not sure about wearing saddle brown, chili, or chestnut color AE shoes with a dark charcoal suit because in certain light it may look like a black suit. Iam I being to over analytical?

Some of my navy suits look black but still look great with brown shoes


----------



## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Boring versus Tedious


----------



## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Charcoal, hands down.


----------



## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I would buy a navy suit first. Only because in the movie Goldfinger, Sean Connery wears one towards the beginning of the movie and it looks terrific with just a white shirt, white ps, and dark tie. I tend to get style cues from Sir Sean Connery....although the kilt is out of my reach


----------



## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Orsini said:


> This all may be skewed by the fact that I am partial to shades of gray...
> 
> To me (slightly color blind), charcoal looks black, and, for some reason, I simply do not fancy it...


I too really cannot have enough shades of gray in suits. This is despite admonishments from my better half who tells me that grays, particularly the lighter shades, make me look too bulky.

Coincidentally, I bought a charcoal pinstripe the other day and would have sworn it was black. Only when I took it outside the store away from the shop-lighting and held it against a 'true' black could I be convinced.

However, I do not have a problem with black clothing having had a black suit in the past that I was very fond of before it was irreparably destroyed following its first dry cleaning.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

While navy is my favorite color and my first odd jacket purchase as a young man was of a ubiquitous navy blazer, I find a solid navy suit to frequently seem almost too intense, to my eye. Therefore, while my first and several subsequent suit purchase(s) was(were) navy, in all but a single instance they have been navy pinstripes. My second suit was of a solid charcoal suit, one of which I have kept in rotation for virtually all of my adult life. My recommendation; start with a navy but, make it a subdued pinstripe and follow-up with a solid charcoal.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Hector Freemantle said:


> I too really cannot have enough shades of gray in suits. This is despite admonishments from my better half who tells me that grays, particularly the lighter shades, make me look too bulky.
> 
> Coincidentally, I bought a charcoal pinstripe the other day and would have sworn it was black. Only when I took it outside the store away from the shop-lighting and held it against a 'true' black could I be convinced.
> 
> However, I do not have a problem with black clothing having had a black suit in the past that I was very fond of before it was irreparably destroyed following its first dry cleaning.


As a larger fellow myself, I think she has a point about the lighter grays. I have a few myself (including one Chester Barrie in a birdseye that I just could not pass up), but I have to admit they probably do make me look bulkier.


----------



## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

I prefer my ill-fitting navy suits to the ill-fitting charcoal ones. That said, it really would depend on how much one wears a suit I suppose. If not often, I would go with charcoal. In fact, I think my next acquisition will be a charcoal suit in a nice flannel, flat front trousers, potentially with a ticket pocket as well. I am still thinking about whether or not I do a three piece, leaning towards yes. I'll make sure they are all made ill-fitting.. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

gnatty8 said:


> I prefer my ill-fitting navy suits to the ill-fitting charcoal ones.


I have always found that the darker the color the more flaws are hidden, both in the clothing fit and the person. I think that is one of the reasons that women wear so many black dresses and black pants, they provide a significant slimming effect. I know one woman who loses 10 pounds when she goes from light colored clothing to near identical dark clothing. The effect is the same on men.

Cruiser


----------



## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

Hmmm, are you suggesting that the poor fit of my suits could potentially be hidden by going with a darker color, like navy or black? This may be valuable knowledge to have. Thank you Cruiser. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

Stephen Kempson is showing a single-breasted peak lapel charcoal-blue suit made up in the shop he shares with Len Logsdail. If one is looking for a winter weight flannel that splits the difference in regard to the blue-gray dichotomy, I would suggest that this suit of almost indescribable color palate (midnight blue does not do it justice) is the ultimate.


----------



## miamimike (Oct 18, 2007)

Its amazing how many different shades of grey there are. I do not doubt most people have a few solid shades of grey suits. 

Iam surprised no one has given their thoughts on if you have a dark charcoal suit as wether you can wear brown shades of shoes with it (chili, chestnut, saddle) or is it strictly black shoes only since most dark charcoal suits can look black in certain light and should get a lighter shade for brown.


----------



## VincentC (May 23, 2008)

All this talk about SOLID Navy or Charcoal is making me want to buy a SOLID suit. Even thought i dont need to wear suits.
Ive got a Navy and a Grey pinstripe suit. With all this talk about Solid being more versatile im thinking im missing out.
But i guess there is nowhere i couldnt wear my pinstripe suit that i could wear a Solid suit to. So i shouldnt be worrying too much me thinks.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

miamimike said:


> Its amazing how many different shades of grey there are. I do not doubt most people have a few solid shades of grey suits.
> 
> Iam surprised no one has given their thoughts on if you have a dark charcoal suit as wether you can wear brown shades of shoes with it (chili, chestnut, saddle) or is it strictly black shoes only since most dark charcoal suits can look black in certain light and should get a lighter shade for brown.


I wear shoes of various brown color values (usually more of a red-brown) with my gray suits all the time. And I prefer suits of dark gray.


----------



## Wyvern1138 (Jun 3, 2006)

If I had only one suit, it would be navy. In a basic SB 2 pc, I think the navy has the potential to be dressed up to a higher degree of formality than the grey does, and is more appropriate for informal evening attire.

That said, I personally like charcoal and dark grey better than dark navy or midnight blue as a suit color. My favorite is a medium grey, more or less what is identified as "Oxford" in the JAB link earlier in this thread.


----------

