# Are blazer and flannels declasse?



## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

I was trying on a couple of outfits for an upcoming trip to SoCal that includes an early dinner engagement. I tried on a BB sack blazer, Press grey wool trousers, white OCBD and a repp tie. I've worn this combination countless times over the years, but this time when I looked in the mirror, all I saw was a stadium security supervisor. All I needed was a walkie talkie and some black New Balance shoes to complete the look. Has this look been compromised forever or am I losing it?


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## Southern Comfort (Jul 25, 2007)

MHO is that the grey trousers make this outfit seem more like a "stadium secuirty" guard. I would try a nice pair of khakis depending upon the dress code.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

I think the items you have quoted are quality, and therefore, look better. Also, as you said, your shoes will certainly be nicer. 

You might try a blue or other colored shirt, or even a striped shirt to give the outfit a bit more flair.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

If the clothes are high quality and properly fitting, you will not look like a security guard. If they are from k-mart and are a size too big, you might.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

If you're comfortable and confident in it, I say wear it. Have you considered a poplin suit instead? What about slacks in a different shade of gray?

I haven't seen many security guards wearing pocket squares...that might renew your confidence in that classic combination.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*I am not a stadium security guard*

and I have never been mistaken for one. Today I am wearing a navy blazer and gray trousers with a pink button down, red and gold tie, and a white pocket square with gold accents. I believe the secret to not looking like security is to skip the walkie talkie (and the cell phone) on your belt, and add a pocket square and some color in your shirt and tie.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Is your blazer polyester?


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

If you avoid the white shirt--or wear a bow tie--you're good.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Yes, play with the shirt, add good shoes and a pocket square and you're good to go. Your trousers are also unlikely to be dragging the floor.


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

*Don't Be That Guy*

I agree that the blazer-and-gray-flannels combo can look a bit clichéd or stodgy, though it certainly need not do so.






​Instead, as already mentioned by others, stick with a blue or (especially) a pink shirt, rather than the perhaps more expected white one; another idea would be to eschew the repp -- especially a long tie with red and/or blue as its prominent theme.

Better yet, try a bow tie: a brightly-colored bow will look great, and you run almost zero risk of being mistaken for a security guard.

EGF

PS. I'd also avoid wearing black shoes and belt, but you knew that already, didn't you?


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Depends. When you see a fellow wearing khakis and a navy polo, do you think cell phone salesman? 

The difference is in the details. If it's not in the details, it's in the attitude. If there is no difference, consider it a step up for stadium security supervisors, not a step down for blazers and flannels. :icon_smile:


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

well said, katon.


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

The best reason yet to avoid rubber sole shoes.


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## Keith T (May 15, 2006)

It's a classic look, but often done wrong. The advice you're getting is very sound in terms of making sure fit is good, attempting a more sophisticated shirt/tie combo, etc. Also, the guy pictured above really reminds me of Kyle Gass, although I'm sure he would never wear a blue blazer, much less one with a crest on it.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Keith T said:


> It's a classic look, but often done wrong. The advice you're getting is very sound in terms of making sure fit is good, attempting a more sophisticated shirt/tie combo, etc. Also, the guy pictured above really reminds me of Kyle Gass, although I'm sure he would never wear a blue blazer, much less one with a crest on it.


Cream Supreme!


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## stuman (Oct 6, 2005)

Don't forget a nice quality belt. I'd go with the sterling silver buckle similar to one like this:


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Another random suggestion....

If you're not too Trad, go with an end-on-end, moderate spread-collared shirt. How about suede loafers?


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Reminds me of _Got a Little Captain in You?_


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Actually, I think the best way to go with this is Italian/mod:

close-fitting blazer that hugs the shoulders
white oxford shirt with maybe longish collar points? Or club collar?
obnoxiously thin tie
very trim tan pants (or stovepipe gray flannels) with no break
sleek black or brown suede loafers, no socks

Million miles away from security guard trad.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Laxplayer said:


> Reminds me of _Got a Little Captain in You?_


I think he said that shortly before he was picked up for being a sexual predator.


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## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

I'm with you, Lars, more than our fellow trads seem to be... I would do two things: don't wear a white OCBD, and don't wear a repp tie. The fact of black shoes, of whatever quality, and grey pants, however well they fit and fine the fabric and whatever the cuff, and blue blazer... it's all heading in one direction: cliche. The colors alone, whatever the fabrics and fit, are the cliche. 

Vary the shirt color, and wear a club tie, not red, and I think you're back on stylish ground.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I gave up both white and blue OCBDs. When I need a 'dress shirt' I wear a 'real one'. For me that's a white RT pinpoint with a medium spread point collar. 

I have been only wearing pink, yellow, ecu, and uni-stripe OCBDs of late. It works for me and I feel more confident that my dress is consistent and has more definitive lines between business casual and business dress. Maybe others will strongly disagree. I have always thought white OCBDs were a bit odd looking. I could never put my finger on it, but I see a lot of it. On some people it looks fantastic. I think the bow-tie look is great if you can pull it off. I can not.

I think the bigger issue is to know yourself and what looks good on you and what works in your environment.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

ksinc said:


> I gave up both white and blue OCBDs. When I need a white dress shirt I wear a 'real one'. I have been only wearing pink, yellow, ecu, and uni-stripe OCBDs of late. It works for me and I feel more confident that my dress is consistent and has more definitive lines between business casual and business dress. Maybe others will strongly disagree. I have always thought white OCBDs were a bit odd looking. I could never put my finger on it, but I see a lot of it. On some people it looks fantastic. I think the bow-tie look is great if you can pull it off. I can not.


I think your idea has a lot of merit. I'm actually going more and more the opposite way - wearing a blue or uni stripe ocbd with just about anything - bathing suit to real suit. If its in any way a serious occasion, I'll wear a "real" shirt, but they're something about a plain blue button down shirt that just always seems to work for me, regardless of occassion. I also feel a bit more "myself" when wearing such a shirt - its like a second skin.

Edit - I agree that white ocbds are a bit of an odd bird. Stuck in the middle, sort of like a black blazer. I wear them, but always feel like there is a better option every time.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

^
White OCBD were the dress shirt of the 1950's and 1960's.


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

*Here we go round the prickly pear*



TMMKC said:


> If you're not too Trad, go with an end-on-end, moderate spread-collared shirt. How about suede loafers?





Brownshoe said:


> Actually, I think the best way to go with this is Italian/mod





ksinc said:


> I gave up both white and blue OCBDs. When I need a 'dress shirt' I wear a 'real one'. For me that's a white RT pinpoint with a medium spread point collar.





abc123 said:


> I agree that white ocbds are a bit of an odd bird. Stuck in the middle, sort of like a black blazer. I wear them, but always feel like there is a better option every time.


This is the way the world ends:
Not with a bang but a whimper.

EGF


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

Being afraid that you look like a security guard is one of the 10 signs that you may need to loose a little weight.


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## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

It used to be that wearing a "uniform" at work inevitably meant wearing something hideous.

My girlfriend in High School worked for MacDonald's.

It was the eighties, but they were still stuck in the seventies. Brown, textured polyester knit jumpsuits with sewn-in sleeves of orange, purple, and brown multi-striped shiny polyester.

Valerie was absolutely devastated one day when I popped down to the mall to visit her at work as a surprise one afternoon. I had no idea she had been trying so hard to avoid being seen like that.

Not all uniforms were as bad as that, but most were pretty awful.

Eventually the HR people and uniform manufacturers began reading books by image consultants such as John T. Molloy, Ken Karpinski, G. Bruce Boyer, Alan Flusser, and others.

Professional attire was redefined to include sales clerks and customer service types, not just the folks in the company headquarters/ corporate offices/ ivory tower.

I've got a decent collection of books from the decade after Dress For Success came out, and you quickly start to notice a consensus about most aspects of a man's wardrobe.

Here is a list of quotes on the topic of cuff links. Here is a similar list of quotes about bow ties. You may have noticed that there are more similarities than differences between the self-proclaimed image experts.

Stores like Kinko's started requiring their employees to wear Lt. blue OCBDs. Dozens of retailers opted for embroidered polos instead of silk screened t-shirts. Classier than "T's", but still allowed the manager to stand out in a simple dress shirt and tie. Everybody opted for khakis instead of jeans.
Focus group testing revealed that these combos were neither too trendy, nor too snobbish.

Tradsters knew this a long time before American chain stores did. The fact that this was the new uniform merely cemented the class-neutral status of these clothes.

Before you throw me to the wolves for implying that Trad is class neutral, please consider this trademark photograph:








I've seen photos of Peter Norton in some pretty un-trad clothing.

But for a prodcut shot his image consultants and focus groups must have told him that a BB OCBD is the perfect way to avoid looking like another flash-in-the-pan programmer wannabee. They probably also advised him to roll up the sleeves so he would look as if he was serious about fixing computer problems. Even the glasses were specifically chosen to avoid looking too trendy--or in other words, too much like he's a billionaire playboy who could care less about the wants and needs of average computer owners.

Can you think of a way to make Peter more Trad in this photo? Other than the selection of neckties, I think he's pretty spot on.

That is to say, WE are pretty spot on.

Nobody looks at trad in the way that the underprivileged think of Rolls Royces and Rolex watches as symols of greed, excess, and privilege.

Trad is practically synonymous with "reverse snobbery". Ostentation is eschewed, even if Trad attention to detail forces us to pay more for high quality garments.

Tonight our forum seems to be facing a potential crisis.

When we see a ticket taker at the symphony in a dark green blazer, does this make us want to don a tuxeedo to differentiate ourselves from the low lifes who work for the symphony giuld?

When we see a security guard in a reasonably decent navy blazer, does this make us feel as if we are in a classy joint, or does it just make us feel less special?

I, for one, vote against letting new trends take hold as the old traditions become more accessible to the common man. Maybe it's just because I'm a member of the servant class, but I hope not.

When Frank Sinatra came to the fore, everybody and their dog was trying to sound like Bing Crosby. Sinatra didn't take over because he was better. He certainly didn't take over because he had proven that Bing's singing style was inferior. He was just in the right place at the right time, and knew how to stand out from the pack of Bing soundalikes.

When Nirvana came to the fore, everybody and their dog was trying to sound like Depeche Mode. Nirvana didn't take over because they were better. They certainly didn't take over because they had proven that Depeche Mode's musical style was inferior. They were just in the right place at the right time, and knew how to stand out from the pack of Depeche Mode soundalikes.

Shifts in popular musical tastes usually boil down to mere novelty. People get bored easily. Especially when the radio stations play the same song twice an hour for months at a time.

The whole point of Trad is to stick to the classics.

Let the winds of change blow others hither and yon. Let the fashion victims copy us from time to time, as they inevitably will.

But please don't give up on Trad just because the hired help has been afforded a bit of self esteem.​


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Unless the navy blazer and grey slacks are constructed of polyester, you shouldn't have to worry. However, if such seems to be a continuing concern, wear a darker shade of grey (perhaps charcoal) or khaki colored trousers.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Great stuff on cufflinks and bow ties, dphil. "The bow ties is the nose ring for the conservative". I love that. Was also surprised and pleased to see Scotty Thompson (RIP) quoted in there. His book is indispensable for kilt wearers.

Scott


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

ksinc said:


> I
> I have always thought white OCBDs were a bit odd looking. I could never put my finger on it, but I see a lot of it. On some people it looks fantastic.
> I think the bigger issue is to know yourself and what looks good on you and what works in your environment.


Agree 100%. We were at dinner last night and a gentleman in his late 50's was seated near us and I noticed his white OCBD fit perfectly and the collar roll was perfect. Had a rep tie and solid charcoal suit and basically personified the TNSIL look. On him it looked perfect and the same combination on others could look sloppy, disheveled or worse. As you point out it's knowing yourself and executing the details.


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

Over here the blazer and grey flannels are very old mannish, working men's club / sports club looking. I also struggle with grey (in fact any shades of black or white) as they are such a yawn; I much prefer colour.

I do like a blazer at certain times (actually, I prefer a navy sportscoat) so I tend to wear trousers ranging in colour from British khaki to caramel to stone. I find the warmer brown tones with the navy work better and don't look so stodgey.


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

dpihl's post needs to be archived somewhere. Not the whole thread, but that one post. Very well done. 

As stated before, good shoes and a pocket square should set you apart quite well. The details really do make a difference.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

familyman said:


> dpihl's post needs to be archived somewhere. Not the whole thread, but that one post. Very well done.


I agree with one correction. Nirvana did take over because they were better.


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## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

dpihl said:


> It used to be that wearing a "uniform" at work inevitably meant wearing something hideous.
> 
> My girlfriend in High School worked for MacDonald's.
> 
> ...


Thanks, dpihl, magnificent post and I appreciate the provocation.

I try to do the Ivy League-New England-Brooks Brothers look in such a way that it's not a uniform. Not so as to distinguish myself from social inferiors but from uniform looks. You'll never see me in weejuns, khakis, blue blazer, white OCBD, red tie. I would have to vary it somewhere.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

As long as you are careful with your grooming and details, I see nothing wrong with a blue blazer and grey slacks. I wear that look frequently.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

Image is more than just the clothes you wear. It's also the way you walk, speak, and carry yourself. The same basic outfit can look entirely different on different men, depending of course on fit, quality, and furnishings but also on the character and demeanor of the men themselves.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

Nathan Detroit said:


> Thanks, dpihl, magnificent post and I appreciate the provocation.
> 
> I try to do the Ivy League-New England-Brooks Brothers look in such a way that it's not a uniform. *Not so as to distinguish myself from social inferiors* but from uniform looks. You'll never see me in weejuns, khakis, blue blazer, white OCBD, red tie. I would have to vary it somewhere.


C'mon, between this and your latest thread, you must be joking? Please tell me your words don't accurately reflect your views towards others...


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

dpihl makes some good points about the non-confrontational, vaguely democratic, and anonymous nature of aspects of 'trad' clothing.

I suggest the shade of grey pants matters a lot: the security guard colour is typically a light grey, but most flannel pants are middle to dark grey. I never mistake the two, but then grey flannels and proper blazers are not common up here.

DocD


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## PennGlock (Mar 14, 2006)

In most cities Ive ever lived, if you're white, problem solved.


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## CPVS (Jul 17, 2005)

So long as you don't have a mass-produced badge sewn on your sleeve saying "AAA Best Security" or the like, you should be fine. That, and the shirt/tie/shoes improvements suggested by others.

PennGlock,

What makes you think he (or any of us here) are white?


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## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

abc123 said:


> C'mon, between this and your latest thread, you must be joking? Please tell me your words don't accurately reflect your views towards others...


I had to re-read his post a couple of times before I understood it. You might try re-reading it too.

He's not calling anybody "social inferiors". Quite the opposite. His point is that he is *not* dressing a certain way out of some desire to distinguish himself from the lower classes.

He *is* trying to avoid looking like a rubber stamp. You know, like he's wearing some kind of "uniform".

*So*, he likes to mix things up a bit.

That's what I get from his post, and I'm the same way. A bow tie here, a handkerchief there. Sweater vests/ waistcoats/ odd vests are among my favorite ways to stave off boredom when wearing a blazer with gray slacks. 
It gets cold around here, so I can often get away with that.

I have to say I really appreciate the kind words that many of you have posted. I also ought to point out that I agree with the many posts about color.

I sometimes notice men from far off in black suits (with gold blazer buttons). As they get closer (or stand in direct sunlight), their blazers suddenly turn blue, and their trousers turn a deep charcoal gray.

Whenever I see this, I tend to walk away thinking, "Man, he looked sharp".

Can't exactly explain it, ...

Khaki is easy. It goes well with everything.

Dove gray is hard to wear with anything, but especially hard with navy blazers.

Unless it's done in a soft, "plush" flannel, medium gray tends to look a bit, oh, I dunno, a bit off.

I personally gravitate toward charcoal gray--especially a heathery gray in worsted wool.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

Maybe it is.

I don't think so though....


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Since we're talking blazers, I would like to shamelessly promote a thread I'm doing on over on the Fashion Forum. I am wending my way through the various types and posting a ton of photos. Very little of it will be "trad", but it's still worth a look I think.

In preparing that thread, what I've noticed is that men wearing double-breasted blazers with grey pants _never_ look like "the help", probably because most service jobs that require uniforms use single-breasted blazers only.

DocD


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## Tom72 (May 8, 2006)

Try burgundy tassel loafers and like colored belt. Especially coupled with the pocket square previously mentioned, you avoid the square shield look, even if you have have a generous waistline.

Yours,


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> Since we're talking blazers, I would like to shamelessly promote a thread I'm doing on over on the Fashion Forum. I am wending my way through the various types and posting a ton of photos. Very little of it will be "trad", but it's still worth a look I think.
> 
> In preparing that thread, what I've noticed is that men wearing double-breasted blazers with grey pants _never_ look like "the help", probably because most service jobs that require uniforms use single-breasted blazers only.
> 
> DocD


What The!!! Are you cheating on me? I'm hurt, D. Really hurt.
Struttin' your little a__ up and down the block--for shame. (wink)

I've seen it, once or twice--good job. I'd have posted, but I wouldn't want others to know I sometimes get tired of reading about stone colored chinos.:icon_smile:


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

crazyquik said:


> Maybe it is.
> 
> I don't think so though....


Nicely done, CQ.

EGF


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

CPVS said:


> PennGlock,
> 
> What makes you think he (or any of us here) are white?


I think the point was that, where PennGlock has lived, most security guards are black, so a white man dressed in navy blazer and gray trousers need not worry about being mistaken for a security guard. I see no assumption regarding anybody's race.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

crazyquik,
Nicely done!


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

A.Squire said:


> ...I'd have posted, but I wouldn't want others to know I sometimes get tired of reading about stone colored chinos.


Having a secret shame is character building!

DocD


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## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

Doctor Damage said:


> Since we're talking blazers, I would like to shamelessly promote a thread I'm doing on over on the Fashion Forum. I am wending my way through the various types and posting a ton of photos. Very little of it will be "trad", but it's still worth a look I think.
> 
> In preparing that thread, what I've noticed is that men wearing double-breasted blazers with grey pants _never_ look like "the help", probably because most service jobs that require uniforms use single-breasted blazers only.
> 
> DocD


Reefers? You mean like these offerings from and Commodore?


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