# Should I buy Brooks Brothers Captoes or Allen Edmonds?



## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

I'm sorry if this has been posted before, I tried to search but couldn't find anything. I'm just curious since the credit card has an offer of $40 off a $250 purchase and I wanted to get new shoes anyhow. Are the brooks brothers shoes still made by allen edmonds? Is one better quality than the other? Is there any reason I should want the rubber soles of Brooks Brothers over the full leather soles of Allen Edmonds? I've only been debating since I have that offer through my credit card otherwise I was going to go with regular allen edmonds but now that they're the same price or cheaper than the allen edmonds, I'm not sure what to get. Any opinions? Thanks guys!

Edit: For reference I was talking about these:
https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Perf...ar_MH00024_Color=BLCK&contentpos=10&cgid=0522

But they also have a listing that says allen edmonds so maybe it's another manufacturer for the other listing? They're the same price so doesn't matter too much.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

I purchased the Brooks Brothers fifth avenue last month in both black, and brown, and I am thoroughly enjoying them. I like the dovetail heel, and don't so much like the rubber half sole, but I plan on having it replaced with a full leather sole when it is time to recraft them. 

I did get them as second quality shoes through the shoe bank and paid 129.00 each though. The brooks brothers version also has the poron insole which is just a bit padded over the AE branded ones. Overall I would suggest the Brooks version, especially if you get a better price on them then the AE branded ones.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

Dmontez said:


> I purchased the Brooks Brothers fifth avenue last month in both black, and brown, and I am thoroughly enjoying them. I like the dovetail heel, and don't so much like the rubber half sole, but I plan on having it replaced with a full leather sole when it is time to recraft them.
> 
> I did get them as second quality shoes through the shoe bank and paid 129.00 each though. The brooks brothers version also has the poron insole which is just a bit padded over the AE branded ones. Overall I would suggest the Brooks version, especially if you get a better price on them then the AE branded ones.


Ya, that's what I saw over at styleforum was that the padding on the inside of the shoe was more comfortable than the regular allen edmonds. I just wanted a shoe with actual leather soles, part of why I was upgrading and I wasn't sure if there was a benefit to their rubber soles I didn't know about that Brooks Brothers uses that instead of the full leather. What's the benefit of a dovetail heel over a regular heel? I know dovetail is nicer but what makes it nicer? Is it more cushioned feel or is it just because you have to replace less on the heel? Thanks for the help.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

OrsonWelles00 said:


> Ya, that's what I saw over at styleforum was that the padding on the inside of the shoe was more comfortable than the regular allen edmonds. I just wanted a shoe with actual leather soles, part of why I was upgrading and I wasn't sure if there was a benefit to their rubber soles I didn't know about that Brooks Brothers uses that instead of the full leather. What's the benefit of a dovetail heel over a regular heel? I know dovetail is nicer but what makes it nicer? Is it more cushioned feel or is it *just because you have to replace less on the heel*? Thanks for the help.


AFAIK, that's it.


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## mmcc47 (Sep 3, 2011)

Mr. OrsonWells00,

I believe I can provide you with some value to your question. I worked for Brooks Brothers through college (2009-2012 on Mich Ave Chicago) and can give you my personal experience and preference to your question. I own a pair of Allen Edmonds Park Avenue and equally own a pair of Brooks Brothers made by Allen Edmonds Wingtip Perforated Captoes.

Without a doubt I would recommend purchasing Allen Edmond's shoes instead for these reasons: 1)The Allen Edmonds Brand without a doubt looks better, shines better, and does not have that annoying rubber sole. 2) Brooks Brothers by Allen Edmonds Shoes are very well made in deed, but they do use a different leather and sole than their original shoes. 3) The Park Ave's have better shape as the Brooks Brothers by Allen Edmonds are a bit wider. I hope this helps you.

If you have any more questions regarding Brooks Brothers please email me at [email protected]. I would be more than happy to help.

Have a good weekend---Matt Note: I was one of the top 10 salesman for the company for two out of my three years with Brooks and equally was the largest Custom Clothing Salesman West of the Appalachians


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

OrsonWelles00 said:


> Ya, that's what I saw over at styleforum was that the padding on the inside of the shoe was more comfortable than the regular allen edmonds. I just wanted a shoe with actual leather soles, part of why I was upgrading and I wasn't sure if there was a benefit to their rubber soles I didn't know about that Brooks Brothers uses that instead of the full leather. What's the benefit of a dovetail heel over a regular heel? I know dovetail is nicer but what makes it nicer? Is it more cushioned feel or is it just because you have to replace less on the heel? Thanks for the help.


I have no clue, as to the benefits of the dovetail heel, other than I like the way it looks over the AE full rubber heel. As for the poron I am not sure yet if I like that more than non poron, or regular AE insole. The rubber sole on the Brooks version is definitely not what you would find on say a johnston & murphy, or cole haan shoe. you can only tell that they are rubber soled from the bottom.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

mmcc47 said:


> Mr. OrsonWells00,
> 
> I believe I can provide you with some value to your question. I worked for Brooks Brothers through college (2009-2012 on Mich Ave Chicago) and can give you my personal experience and preference to your question. I own a pair of Allen Edmonds Park Avenue and equally own a pair of Brooks Brothers made by Allen Edmonds Wingtip Perforated Captoes.
> 
> ...


So they actually use a different material for the uppers? Maybe I'll just have to go in person to look at them. The difference in price is about $320 for allen edmonds and $280 for the brooks brothers.


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## ColdIron (Jun 19, 2009)

I have the AE for BB captoe, although not the perf cap. And also AE PA in black shell. I use the BB captoe for bad weather when I don't want to expose shell to water, snow and salt but wear a suit and due to moving around between locations overshoes are not an option. I might be the rare exception but I don't care for the poron insole. I highly recommend that you try them on first as they add about a quarter inch height inside the shoe which causes the gap in lacing to expand quite a bit. I am a 10D on the 5 last and have a number of shoes on that last which fits me like it was designed perfectly for my feet, it is my favorite last of any vendor. With the exception of the BB captoe. Don't get me wrong it still fits, but I feel just not quite as well as the others on the 5 last.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

ColdIron said:


> I have the AE for BB captoe, although not the perf cap. And also AE PA in black shell. I use the BB captoe for bad weather when I don't want to expose shell to water, snow and salt but wear a suit and due to moving around between locations overshoes are not an option. I might be the rare exception but I don't care for the poron insole. I highly recommend that you try them on first as they add about a quarter inch height inside the shoe which causes the gap in lacing to expand quite a bit. I am a 10D on the 5 last and have a number of shoes on that last which fits me like it was designed perfectly for my feet, it is my favorite last of any vendor. With the exception of the BB captoe. Don't get me wrong it still fits, but I feel just not quite as well as the others on the 5 last.


Ya, I'm going to try and try them on on Monday. Sucks that everyone seems to like the allen edmonds more, I don't think there was anything else in that price range I would want at brooks brothers.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

OrsonWelles00 said:


> Sucks that everyone seems to like the allen edmonds more,


In what way does the fact that reasonably informed men prefer leather soles somehow "suck"? Reality is what it is.


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## ColdIron (Jun 19, 2009)

I just realized, to add to your number of options so not sure if it will help or hinder....

The BB F&F sale should kick in pretty soon at 25% off which is better than the $40 discount on $250.

I have had good luck with AE seconds, although most of my AE shoes are firsts. If you have an issue with any defects (usually can't find any) it is free to send them back and try another pair or get a refund. Right now the Jeffersonville OH outlet has 20% off on one item but it ends today so you would have to order ASAP. Looking at the list I have from them the BB perf captoe is $160 after discount, and the AE Fifth is $215. For those prices it would be worth a try, I'd give them a call and see what they have available in your size.

Allen Edmonds Jeffersonville
8665 Factory Shops Blvd.
Jeffersonville OH 43128
t (740) 948 9033
e mailto:[email protected]


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

OrsonWelles00 said:


> So they actually use a different material for the uppers? Maybe I'll just have to go in person to look at them. The difference in price is about $320 for allen edmonds and $280 for the brooks brothers.


As with other higher end shoes, you need to forget about price and looks. Just try them on and buy whatever fits better. That poron padded insole makes a big difference. I regularly wear the AE Sanford as the shoe and last is very comfortable for me. I tried on the Hancock, which is essentially the same shoe only it is dressed up a little more as it is part of AE's higher priced Independence Collection. That padded insole in the Hancock makes a big difference in fit!!


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

arkirshner said:


> In what way does the fact that reasonably informed men prefer leather soles somehow "suck"? Reality is what it is.


Haha, because I don't have a $40 discount on them.  I just meant it's a shame I don't have a purpose for the brooks brothers thing is all. It's still not a big enough difference to buy something worse/ I don't like.



ColdIron said:


> I just realized, to add to your number of options so not sure if it will help or hinder....
> 
> The BB F&F sale should kick in pretty soon at 25% off which is better than the $40 discount on $250.
> 
> ...


Well BB is having a 15% off pretty much everything sale so it's that off and then the $40 which is why I was considering it. And seconds I've heard are good, it's just I've never seen them enough to look at the flaws to see what kinds they allow for. I just don't want to regret it is all. I'll have to call them in a little bit.


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

OrsonWelles00 said:


> And seconds I've heard are good, it's just I've never seen them enough to look at the flaws to see what kinds they allow for. I just don't want to regret it is all. I'll have to call them in a little bit.


as with anything handmade, you will have some cosmetic flaws/defects, but IME, the "seconds" are usually not _that_ far off from the firsts... i have 5 or 6 pairs of firsts and 5 or 6 pairs of seconds... i can't even tell which were which...


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

salgy said:


> as with anything handmade, you will have some cosmetic flaws/defects, but IME, the "seconds" are usually not _that_ far off from the firsts... i have 5 or 6 pairs of firsts and 5 or 6 pairs of seconds... i can't even tell which were which...


Ya, I just send an email to them for a list so I'll see what happens. I hope they have park avenue and not fifth avenue. I'm not really a fan of the fifth avenue design.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

Just got the list emailed, seems seconds are still $269 for allen edmonds... Doesn't seem worth getting seconds over firsts at that price.


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## ColdIron (Jun 19, 2009)

OrsonWelles00 said:


> Just got the list emailed, seems seconds are still $269 for allen edmonds... Doesn't seem worth getting seconds over firsts at that price.


That list is shared by the shoebank and all the AE Outlets. It is only the Jeffersonville Outlet that has the 20% off and the sale price is not listed on the spreadsheet. Which means your cost is $215 when you call and order. I picked up a pair of brown shell Patriots during this sale from them and they listed on that sheet for $449. I paid $360 for them. They are perfect and I'm tempted to pick up the burgundy shell Patriots. But trying to stay focused on custom ordering a pair of Rancourt Shell Ranger Mocs next.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

ColdIron said:


> That list is shared by the shoebank and all the AE Outlets. It is only the Jeffersonville Outlet that has the 20% off and the sale price is not listed on the spreadsheet. Which means your cost is $215 when you call and order. I picked up a pair of brown shell Patriots during this sale from them and they listed on that sheet for $449. I paid $360 for them. They are perfect and I'm tempted to pick up the burgundy shell Patriots. But trying to stay focused on custom ordering a pair of Rancourt Shell Ranger Mocs next.


So I should just call them then and see what they personally have in stock?


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## ColdIron (Jun 19, 2009)

When your ready to order. They can get any of the shoes on that list and give you 20% off, it doesn't have to be stock only at that outlet to get the discount :smile:


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

ColdIron said:


> When your ready to order. They can get any of the shoes on that list and give you 20% off, it doesn't have to be stock only at that outlet to get the discount :smile:


Damn, nice. Definitely seems worth a shot to get park avenues for $220. Thanks for all your help! :biggrin:


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

How tightly should a dress shoe fit? The person at Allen Edmonds measured me to a 10D but it felt pretty snug. I tried a 10E which is comfortable but i'm afraid whether it's too loose. The 10D weren't uncomfortable but i'm not sure if they would feel worse after wearing for a full day. Any suggestions on sizing?


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

OrsonWelles00 said:


> How tightly should a dress shoe fit? The person at Allen Edmonds measured me to a 10D but it felt pretty snug. I tried a 10E which is comfortable but i'm afraid whether it's too loose. The 10D weren't uncomfortable but i'm not sure if they would feel worse after wearing for a full day. Any suggestions on sizing?


I've never had luck with shoes that felt too snug on first wearing. What makes you feel as though the 10E is too loose? Heel slip? Toe slip?


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

Leighton said:


> I've never had luck with shoes that felt too snug on first wearing. What makes you feel as though the 10E is too loose? Heel slip? Toe slip?


Very slight heel slip and there feels like too much area around my toes. I wound up ordering the 10D. That's what the guy measured and they're tighter than my other crappy shoes but 10E just felt too big the more I walked around in them. Maybe the 10D will feel different after wearing them a little bit.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

Goddamn, the seconds are very nice. On the one shoe the only thing I notice "wrong" is the sole wasn't 100% clean like the new ones otherwise it was flawless to my eyes. The other shoe, the stitching is a little long by the laces but I think I can just cut it gently with a razor blade to fix it. Very nice quality shoes.


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## ColdIron (Jun 19, 2009)

Congrats on your new shoes. Yes they usually are hard to tell from firsts. I would recommend wearing them around inside the house for a few times before taking them out in the wild for a full day to make sure they fit well and also break them in a little. My black shell PA are firsts and I had a similar thread, I cut it off above the last knot and it has been fine. Some might complain that the cap is too short, toe too round, shoe is too boring, etc. But when the occasion calls for formality it is my go to shoe. I use a couple thin coats of blue shoe polish on my shell PA's and I really like the effect. Slight blue tint in bright sun and an even darker black inside.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

Nice! I'm thinking of getting a dark brown pair if I can get that same price again. Should I go for Park Avenue or get another style?


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## msulinski (Jun 29, 2012)

Regarding dovetail heels, I don't think you replace less of the heel. The heels I see at the cobbler are all preconstructed dovetail heels, so they are still replacing the entire layer. I just think they look nicer. However, on the BB models, that is offset by the partial rubber sole.

I do prefer the AE model, mainly because I don't like the Poron insole. I find that it feels more comfortable initially, but the harder AE insole gives more support and feels better throughout the day.

The AE leather insole is also sturdier than the Poron. The durability of the insole is critical for having long-lasting Goodyear-welted shoes. If the insole falls apart, the shoe is done. In practice, I really can't comment on how much faster the Poron insole deteriorates than the stock leather one. Are there any pairs of 20-year-old Poron-insole AEs out there? Did Poron even exist 20 years ago?


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## goonerk (Feb 20, 2013)

I recently saw the AE for BB shoe identical to the Strand on sale for $199 at an AE outlet. I did not buy them but when they emailed me about another purchase I made, I inquired about that BB shoe again and the shipping is free of charge.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

Is this normal or does this mean they're not wide enough?


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

mmcc47 said:


> Mr. OrsonWells00,
> 
> I believe I can provide you with some value to your question. I worked for Brooks Brothers through college (2009-2012 on Mich Ave Chicago) and can give you my personal experience and preference to your question. I own a pair of Allen Edmonds Park Avenue and equally own a pair of Brooks Brothers made by Allen Edmonds Wingtip Perforated Captoes.
> 
> ...


Can this be true?

The Brooks Brothers shoes by AE are made with lesser quality leather than the regular AE models?


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Odradek said:


> Can this be true?
> 
> The Brooks Brothers shoes by AE are made with lesser quality leather than the regular AE models?


Yes. Order enough of anything and a factory will make them to your specs. The seconds are priced well below other seconds which indicates cost cutting measures are employed.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Leighton said:


> Yes. Order enough of anything and a factory will make them to your specs. The seconds are priced well below other seconds which indicates cost cutting measures are employed.


But when sold new by Brooks Brothers, they cost a little more than the AE versions.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Odradek said:


> But when sold new by Brooks Brothers, they cost a little more than the AE versions.


So? JAB wants $500 for something that costs them $10. What's new?


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Leighton said:


> So? JAB wants $500 for something that costs them $10. What's new?


True enough.


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## Fatman (May 7, 2013)

Dmontez said:


> I purchased the Brooks Brothers fifth avenue last month in both black, and brown, and I am thoroughly enjoying them. I like the dovetail heel, and don't so much like the rubber half sole, but I plan on having it replaced with a full leather sole when it is time to recraft them.
> 
> I did get them as second quality shoes through the shoe bank and paid 129.00 each though. The brooks brothers version also has the poron insole which is just a bit padded over the AE branded ones. Overall I would suggest the Brooks version, especially if you get a better price on them then the AE branded ones.


How often does the shoe bank email list come out?

and...

does it need to be requested each time?

thanks. I have been giving some thought to a pair of 2nds.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

I did not realize the BB for AE shoes were that different. I did notice though that the 2nds for BB are cheaper than the 2nds for AE. I just bought a pair of 2nds for BB strands for like $129 i think. 


@fatman. a tent sale just started a couple days ago and runs through the 23rd. you will have to request the list in the size you want. call up one of the outlet stores. if you already know your size and a few shoes you are interested in, you can also call and order right on the phone.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Fatman said:


> How often does the shoe bank email list come out?
> 
> and...
> 
> ...


Whenever you ask for it. Prices only change when they're on sale or infrequently. Stock rotates pretty regularly.


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