# Spanish Language Version of Star Spangled Banner



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I wonder if everyone can agree on the Spanish version of the Star Spangled Banner. 

I was a little put off at first. Then I figured it was probably ok. Now I have found out they dramatically change words in some spots. Not just for the translation purposes.

Now, I think it's wrong and offensive, but what can be done about it?

Do we want to outlaw a song or a version of a song? I think that is extreme.

Anyone have some good thoughts on this topic?


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

Well there isn't one spanish version, there have been numerous ones recorded through the years. But as far as the recent practice of singing the national anthem in spanish at various immigration rallies, I haven't heard or seen the lyrics they use so I can't comment on how far they differ from the old one.

From what I understand they are trying to use it as a rallying cry at their events, which to me doesn't seem like a good idea. I don't think it really delivers the message they want. Also it serves to confuse and scare some people, who might think that bilingualism is their main agenda. "Next they're going to start printing money in spanish! Then what are we going to do?"

I think it would be better if they found another rallying song what spoke more to their goals.

I have to say though I've never been that much of a fan of our Anthem. It doesn't speak very much to our unique American Ideals. Plus it is not very fun to get sing too loud while drunk before a sporting event. I think the brits have us beat in that category. I think we could do better. I've always been partial to Woody Guthrie's "This Land," but while it is a little more substantive, it again suffers from the same problem.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

I remember once there were some people who changed the words to "God Save the King" and called it "My country 'tis of thee."


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Beresford_
> 
> I remember once there were some people who changed the words to "God Save the King" and called it "My country 'tis of thee."


Touche!

_Deny Guilt, Demand Proof and Never Speak Without an Attorney!_​


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## Boris (Aug 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by ksinc_
> 
> I wonder if everyone can agree on the Spanish version of the Star Spangled Banner.
> 
> ...


I think it's great. Being of Italian descent (yes, my grandparents, uncle etc. were all born in Italy and migrated here) I'm now waiting for the Star Spangled Banner in Italian. Then Polish. Then German. Then Russian. Then Japanese. And so on. Why not? Not really. You want to live in this country? Enjoy the freedoms? Learn the primary language this country speaks. Give the U.S. the respect it deserves. If where you came from is so great, what are you doing here?


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## Wimsey (Jan 28, 2006)

I think a spanish star spangled banner is fine. If non-english speakers want to support the US by translating the national anthem into spanish and singing it, I don't have a problem with it, and I don't understand why anyone else would, either. If spanish speakers want to translate the pledge of allegiance into spanish and recite it, I likewise see no problem with it.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wimsey_
> 
> I think a spanish star spangled banner is fine. If non-english speakers want to support the US by translating the national anthem into spanish and singing it, I don't have a problem with it, and I don't understand why anyone else would, either. If spanish speakers want to translate the pledge of allegiance into spanish and recite it, I likewise see no problem with it.


That was my original thinking, but it turns out they changed the lyrics and not to support us. It was actually done by a British guy who said he did it to show solidarity with the spanish people who are protesting in America. IE it's more of anti-American political statement.

If someone was innocently translating it to understand it better or learn it or even to honor it in some way, I wouldn't mind that so much. Like I'd actually feel honored if some of my Russian friends learned the SSB in Russian and sang it for me. I'd consider that friendly and respectful.

As it is, it seems a lot like burning the flag to me. I personally think burning the flag is wrong, but I think it should be legal to do so. However, I also think that if someone decks you for it they should be immune from prosecution.


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## Wimsey (Jan 28, 2006)

I guess if they changed the words, they're not really singing the star spangled banner, but some other song. Do you have an example of the lyrics?


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## Vladimir Berkov (Apr 19, 2005)

The "Star Spangled Banner" is not supposed to be a song like the "Internationale" which was translated into dozens of languages since it had a global purpose. The "Star Spangled Banner" is the national anthem of the United States. You can only have one national anthem, and only one set of lyrics in only one language. That is the purpose of national anthem; unity. To create one song which everybody in the country knows and which represents something important about that country.

Anything which seeks to dilute that purpose is just not a good idea.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wimsey_
> 
> I guess if they changed the words, they're not really singing the star spangled banner, but some other song. Do you have an example of the lyrics?


This is a good story about it and includes both the lyrics and a quote from a descendant of Francis Scott Key

This seems ok at first blush, but I heard someone say some people are calling it "the separatists anthem". I'm not sure what to think. And the "British guy" is quoted on TV as saying he wrote in solidarity with the protesters which are clearly protesting the rule of law IMHO. In the article it says solidarity with immigrants.

It's confusing at best. I'm not sure I have a firm conclusion about it which is why asked for some thoughts. At least they seem to say 'sacred Flag'.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

" in the Moralos Mountains campesinos are planting their fields. Where the ghost of Zapata rides a horse who can still outrun the wheel. Late in the night and clear out of sight, We're the Free Mexican Airforce and we're flying tonight......"


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

Um...Ok. I think we need to get Vicente Fox to approve the addition of English on the Mexican ballots, we need to compose _our_ rendition of the Mexican national anthem (adopted in 1854---that's kinda old) to a more current one and one that is _sensitive_ to their neighbors to the north. Also, I believe Mexico needs bilingual education in grade school on up....as well as Western studies on college campuses.

We Americans go down there and we don't understand the street signs! Los this, Las that.....what's a ****** to do? How about changing the streets to something we can understand! El Smith Street sounds kinda friendly. This way we blend _both_ cultures!

Oh....we also want our own magazines, pageants, tv channels etc. I mean, after all, we see daily here in America Latina magazine, Univision, Hispanic Chambers of commerce, Hispanic this and that...We don't want to feel disenfranchized. We need to feel at home! So, rÃ¡pidamente!

And we need to be bumped up for promotions based on our heritage. We're far from home and we need all of the benefits possible to succeed in this strange land. We need special treatment as well. We're very sensitive about being so different. If you don't treat us well, we'll have to suggest that you go to sensitivity training so you can learn how to respect us. We need "The Race" (our version of La Raza) to inspire and protect us. We need our version of LULAC as well.

Seriously, though. Can't you see the agenda being pushed here? I see this as the proverbial frog in the pot. We're getting the heat turned up on us incrementally and we can't even tell we're getting boiled alive. Who is the puppetmaster behind the sudden surge of "illegal rights". That sounds like an oxymoron to me, by the way. First, they come over here illegally. Then they get this right and that right, then the ballots are in Spanish, then the schools are teaching studies in two languages, then we're learning about "white man bad, brown man good" blah, blah, blah...

Am I the only one who sees this insanity?


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## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> Um...Ok. I think we need to get Vicente Fox to approve the addition of English on the Mexican ballots


Why not? All you need is a numerous immigrant US comunity in Mexico to justify it, otherwise your comparison is inane (although, historically, when Americans immigrate in Mexico, they prefer to seperate the parts of Mexico they emigrated to and then join it to the US - OK, just trolling).


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Ã‰tienne_
> 
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> 
> ...


Touche'. That was really funny too! Great troll/point.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Etienne,

The US doesn't hold a candle to the French when it comes to colonialism. After all look how well French colonies have fared - Francophone Africa, Vietnam, Syria, Lebanon, Quebec and Louisiana. Thank God the English won the French and Indian War! Otherwise we'd either be on strike, having an endless civil war, accepting a bribe or trying to access Ask Andy on our Minitels! 

A bientot,

Karl


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## msh14 (Nov 11, 2005)

In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.

-Theodore Roosevelt


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by msh14_
> 
> In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American ... There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag ... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.
> 
> -Theodore Roosevelt


 Why is it an outrage?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I wish they would just sing the song in English and try to assimilate.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Again, I have to say, as an ex-pat Canadian, the US needs to get ahold of the language issue *FAST* and make English as the official national language and stop the _de facto_ bilingualism in the US. An offical bilingual status of the country will just make Atzlan a reality that much quicker IMO. While I am pro-legal immigration, I also think assimilation must be expidited and this will not occur if we do not stress the national language.


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because we are supposed to judge people by the decisions they make. Birthplace and origin are out of your control. Creed should be accepted as long as it is not detrimental to society. You do have a choice in the what you choose to believe. If you believe it's OK to fly airplane's into office buildings, Most Americans will have little respect for your creed.


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## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> The US doesn't hold a candle to the French when it comes to colonialism.


Karl, I fail to see the point and relevance of your attack on French history. It is off-topic and uncalled for, when I was merely making a small jab on a entirely different topic.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Etienne,

Can't I make a "small jab" too? Or is it a right reserved only to Frenchmen? Don't be surprised at the responses your self confessed trolling receives. Besides, its May Day, don't you have a barricade to man somewhere? Shall you take another cheap shot at the US and we'll call it even?

Karl


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## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> Can't I make a "small jab" too?


You might. The difference, is that I made a small jab on topic (in response to a comparison of US immigration to Mexico). The tone made clear this was meant in jest, and it was received thus.

You, on the contrary, made a gratuitious insulting comment, apparently linked to the topic only by the fact that I happen to be French.

I was confronted to it many times before, and I have seen much worse examples than your comment, but still, the amount of francophobia on this forum never ceases to amaze me.


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> 
> adopted in 1854---that's kinda old


The Star Spangled Banner was first called the "national anthem" by the New York Times in 1918. A bill to introduce it officially as such was defeated in 1921, 1923 AND 1925. Finally passed in 1931.

We lose.

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Ã‰tienne_
> 
> 
> > quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_Can't I make a "small jab" too?
> ...


I, too, am disappointed by gratuitous francophobia; and I say this as a native American. I'm certain, though, that Ã‰tienne can see that the scope of the infection is limited.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Etienne,

You make a comment about American colonialism but when someone makes a comment about French colonialism you are shocked and label me a Francophobe. You say the level of Francophobia on this board disturbs (you seemly to be easily rattled if this is the case) you but does the level of anti-Americanism in your country disturb you as well? 

Lets just leave it there.


Karl


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

The francophobia of Karl and his fellow travelers on the far right is boring and predictable.

I'm not quite sure what gets them so badly - the superior quality of life in France, the fact that the French refuse to toe the American line on a number of issues or repressed guilt in the knowledge that without the French there would probably be no USA and you would still have the Queen's head on a dollar bill (probably be better off for it too...).

Regardless, I say we ignore it and maybe they will stop. It will matter litle when I am sipping wine on my parent's terrace in Provence this summer and shouting for les bleus at the World Cup.

------------------


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gmac,

I am not a Francophobe nor have am I a member of the far right. And I will happily raise a toast to Lafayette (though I think we have squared that debt.) Can one disagree with French policy and not be a Francophobe? You throw labels with such disregard that they cease to mean anything. There are many things I like about France, there are many things I do not. But if a Francophobe means someone who doesn't fawn over the French social model and has serious problems with French policy than I suppose there are far more Francophobes in London, Berlin, Warsaw and Vienna than there are in the US.

Karl


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## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> You make a comment about American colonialism but when someone makes a comment about French colonialism you are shocked and label me a Francophobe.


Nope. Somebody was speaking (jokingly) about the treatment of the US language and US immigrants in Mexico. I made a comment, in jest, about US history with Mexico. This is not a comment about "colonialism". As far as I know, Mexico has never been a US colony. And I still fail to see how you can link a discussion about US-Mexico relations and some specific parts of the history of France.

The only link that I can see is that I happen to be French. It seems, therefore, that in your eyes I am not allowed to express any opinion without you attacking me about some irrelevant (and often inaccurate) point about the history of France. That is what I called a francophibic reaction.

And when I was speaking about "francophobia" on the forums, this is a good part of what I was speaking about. It has happened to me numerous times in the past 6 months that in a discussion, my point of view would be insulted or dismissed because I am French, generally with some false stereotype (say, a joke about "surrendering monkeys" or such). Once you smile. Twice you smile. At the 20th occurence, you begin to be slightly miffed.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Ã‰tienne_
> 
> Nope. Somebody was speaking (jokingly) about the treatment of the US language and US immigrants in Mexico. I made a comment, in jest, about US history with Mexico. This is not a comment about "colonialism". As far as I know, Mexico has never been a US colony. And I still fail to see how you can link a discussion about US-Mexico relations and some specific parts of the history of France.
> 
> ...


Mate, just be thankful you are not Australian.

Aus


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## ChubbyTiger (Mar 10, 2005)

Oh good grief. Stay on topic.

I've got nothing wrong with recording the Nat'l Anthem in Spanish or any other language. I don't like them adding other stuff to it, but it's still their right to do so. Speak whatever you want at home (I'd choose Klingon, personally), but official documents should be in English. If nothing else, you must speak English to get anywhere in the USA, so we're just enabling continued poverty by not forcing English on immigrants. 

CT

Fabricati diem, pvnc. (loose translation, To Serve and Protect) -- Sign above the door of the City Watch House, Ankh-Morpork.


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> . . . . repressed guilt in the knowledge that without the French there would probably be no USA . . . .


Though I might agree with some other points gmac makes (and certainly share with him an enjoyment of Provence), as a former historian I hope to correct this oft-recited error. One cannot predict the past; but most serious analyses guess that the American Revolution would nevertheless have succeeded, though much more slowly, without French assistance. Bear in mind, too, that the Ancien Regime aided the American rebels not because of shared values or other such idealism, but for vengeance and to weaken France's ancient rival.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Ã‰tienne_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As someone who is an American citizen of roughly half-French ancestry, I feel qualified to weigh in with the following remark -- can't we just agree the Vietnamese kicked both of our butts? []


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Etienne,

Of course you have a right to your opinion. And sometimes I even agree with your opinion, but when you "jokingly" take a jab at the US then expect the same about your country. Don't be offended - I think France is by and large is a force for good in the world.
Karl

P.S. I also think you have a far better national anthem then we do.


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## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Srynerson_
> can't we just agree the Vietnamese kicked both of our butts? []


Ah yes, but in our case that proved an invaluable experience. We got from that war a generation of experienced officers determined not to let that happen again, at all cost, and then proceeded to let them loose in Algeria. 



> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> Of course you have a right to your opinion. And sometimes I even agree with your opinion, but when you "jokingly" take a jab at the US then expect the same about your country.


Well, Karl, let's agree to drop the subject and act as gentlemen about it. I think we both made our feelings quite clear in the instance. You explained why you thought your comment was fair, I explained why I felt justified in receiving it badly. It is not that important in any case.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Etienne,

Agreed. Sorry if you felt a bit put out. Neither America or France is paradise though on an expense account Paris comes closer.

Karl


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Srynerson_
> can't we just agree the Vietnamese kicked both of our butts? []


Nope.


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## jerms24k (May 3, 2006)

the star spangled banner wasn't originally a song. it was never written to be a song, and even the song now is almost never sung properly anymore. it was a poem by francis scott key and the tune is from a british drinking song. everyone sings it too slow, no drinking song goes as slow as they sing it. anyways, everyone's probably read some poetry in translation and just because it nationalist in theme doesn't make it any different. i vote for america the beautiful as our national anthem anyways, it's better and more democratic...it doesn't require such an incredible range to sing it. just my two cents.


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