# Coppley MTM Review



## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

I've just got a Coppley MTM suit that I ordered a bit over a month ago. I thought I'd post my observations in case they're helpful to anyone considering MTM in general and from Coppley in particular.

The basic specs are these:

Graham model SB2B with peak lapels, side vents, hacking and ticket pockets, pic stitching (machine done), functional cuff buttons, light gray lining.

Jameel model trousers with double reverse pleats and jetted pockets. No belt loops.

6B DB Waistcoat. Unfortunately, lapels were not an available option.

Fabric is 8.5 oz. Scabal worsted (no supers no.) in light gray with white chalkstripes. They are spaced about .5 inches apart and are themselves on the wider side, about three white threads wide, if that makes any sense. They are prominent in size but not in color.

As an aside, it's interesting that some of these features (DB vests and light gray suits) have since been the subject of considerable conversation on the forum!

Back to the suit. I'll do pros and cons.

Pros.
1. The fabric. I upped the price over base Coppley MTM considerably by going with the Scabal fabric. It, however, is just what I've been looking for for quite a long time (roughly since the first time I saw the Brosnan Thomas Crowne). The stripes stand out pleasingly but they don't "glow" at all. The fabric has a fairly matte appearance which tones down what might otherwise be a somewhat garish design.

2. The overall design. I'm very pleased with the width of the lapels. If one follows a stripe up from the outer edge of the hanky pocket, the peak of the lapel hits just short of two stripes (approx. 1 inch) further out. It sets up the V very nicely. This is my first DB waiscoat and I'm quite pleased. I do however wish that lapels would have been available.

3. Fit. Coppley have four shoulder styles: roped, sartorial (a built up sort of affair with a squarish silhouette), an unpadded natural, and a lightly padded natural. After careful consideration, I opted for the last of these and it was the right choice. I tried on the sartorial sort at the shop and thought it just a tad too unnatural for my taste. The jacket is made on their 42 regular pattern. Shoulders fit precisely and, joy of joys, the waist had be taken in a bit to give more definition. I guess the Bowflex work is paying off. The trousers are quite comfortable in rise.

4. Service at my retailer, J. Kleinbauer, in Selinsgrove, PA. They took lots of time with me both at order time and during two fittings after delivery. They also were of great assistance with some issues with Coppley (see below). Standard disclaimers apply, no affiliation with J. Kleinbauer other than happy customer.

Cons.

1. Ticket pocket placement. I would have expected the leading edge of the ticket pocket and the regular pocket to align vertically. The ticket pocket in this case is more centered over the regular pocket. Not sure if this is right, wrong or indifferent, but I would have assumed it would be otherwise.

2. Coppley customer service. In some respects, this company is not quite on the ball. I specified a second pair of trousers with the order as the fabric is lightweight and at the price, I want the thing to go some distance. Coppley called to inform my retailer that there was not enough fabric, but they had already started building the jacket. Surely, they would have known ahead of time whether they could meet my needs. It seems as though they liked the notion of getting rid of the tail end of a bolt of pricier lightweight fabric as winter approaches. In the end, they offered me the choice of another fabric or taking the suit without the extra trousers. As I really liked the fabric, I opted for the latter, but it left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth about the company. When the suit came in, Coppley neglected to install the functional buttonholes. Sending it back for this would mean another two weeks of delay putting the suit in service. My retailer arranged to send it back when the weather turns cold so that I can wear it while it's warmer.

3. Some fusing. Coppley does a full floating canvass chest piece as it turns out. While I would have preferred actual, full canvassing, the suit is still very comfortable and doesn't feel stiff. The coat overall seems well put together.

Overall, I am satisfied with the product, though Coppley might not be my first choice MTM maker again. My shop also does H. Freeman & Son and I probably would have went with them instead if they had a fabric that suited my needs. I have a Freeman on order and it should take about a month. If it's useful, I'll let the forum know how it turns out.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Thanks for this informative review.

On the ticket-pocket issue, I think Coppley definitely goofed. A ticket pocket, whether in the straight or slanted pocket arrangement, should be at least aligned at its forward edge with the forward edge of the larger pocket below it, and some authorities (AKA manton) actually feel that placing the pocket's leading edge a bit forward (i.e., closer to the center line of the body) of the lower pocket looks a bit better.

Frankly, I've never seen a ticket pocket centered over the pocket below. I find that really odd.

The dwindling fabric/no extra trouser goof is really annoying. They should have offered you a small %age off the regular price for that one, as there's really no excuse for them not to have given you a heads-up about the situation BEFORE they started making the suit.

BTW, would you mind saying how much this set you back, and how much of a premium you paid over regular price b/c you chose the Scabal fabric?


----------



## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

Great review, AQG. Any chance of seeing a photo of the final product?


----------



## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

PJC,

Yeah, I think the ticket pocket is a goof, too. My guess is somebody just didn't know how to do it quite right on a hacking setup. On this suit, I'm willing to just pass it off as an eccentricity. In the future, though, I will have no mercy if I order from Coppley and draw this to their attention.

The % accomodation idea struck me as well. However, I didn't want to put my retailer, who served me well, in the middle of some dispute with the company about who swallows it. There was no hint that this would be the case, but I didn't want it to become an issue.

The suit was just under $1,700.00. The waistcoat drove the price up a bit over the premium for the fabric. The same suit in standard range fabrics would probably have been around $1,000.00.

Cantabragian,

I'll consult Mr. Golem's sticky on the technical aspects. If I can arrange a photo without the embarassment of having to get my wife to snap one to show "the guys on the forum," I'll post.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> The suit was just under $1,700.00. The waistcoat drove the price up a bit over the premium for the fabric. The same suit in standard range fabrics would probably have been around $1,000.00.


So if I'm following you correctly, the suit in a standard fabric and w/out the vest would have been under a grand? (I figure the vest must cost, what, $250 to $300 extra?)

That's competitive w/ what LS or Mr. Ned would charge--or at least this is my impression based on what I've read elsewhere on AAAC.


----------



## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

I'd say your math sounds about right, PJC.


----------



## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> If I can arrange a photo without the embarassment of having to get my wife to snap one to show "the guys on the forum," I'll post.


Ha ha! I agree with this! A bit too silly to ask my mate, IMO. I do the best I can with a self-timer if I have anything post-worthy! In fact if I am forum-reading on my laptop while we are watching TV together on the couch (some HG show she likes), I refrain from opening threads that I know to have pics so I can avoid the questions sure to follow (Do you have any pics on the forum?!?!?!)

Thank you for the informative review.


----------



## johnnyblazini (Feb 24, 2006)

You should have asked about the half canvassing, if you weren't sure. We could have told you that...

Although I like the number of options on the shoulders and the Scabal possibility, Coppley seems like a poor choice for MTM. (Based on your experience at least)

I wonder if the cloth problem comes from Scabal's side or Coppley..? Do you guys think they buy fabrics or just work on orders..?


----------



## lawgman (Mar 28, 2005)

While all my ticket pockets line up with the lower pocket, this week on TV I saw the unusual ticket pocket location that you describe. I can't recall what show it was (possibly from the show Las Vegas, or on Bob Saget or even possibly on Emmitt Smith) but I definately saw it because it struck me as unusual.


----------



## Alan David (Jun 22, 2006)

*Coppley review*

Mr. Questionable gentleman-excellent quote, allow me to weigh in.

I have my own custom clients and my #1 resource is Coppley, so if I seem a bit biased you know why. Coppley is not a traditional CMT house. They sell retailers RTW as well as made to measure garments.

On the MTM side they have 2 programs; accumeasura and made to measure. Accumeasure simply takes their existing pattern and modifies the basic measurements like sleeve length and waist size.

Their MTM program allows for a lot more leeway including narrower lapels, barrell chest cuts, lowering waistbands, etc. While not true bespoke by a long shot, they fill a great middle of the road niche.

While you can use them for CMT, they have a box of about 600 fabrics which are beautiful. They include Zegna (a lot), Loro Piana and Scabal as well as the Reda's and Barberis' of the world.

Here are some other things you and forum members should know. Their opening ranges are all fused while their higher ranges are half canvas. Spend the extra for the higher ranges, it is well worth it.

I have found Coppley to be a very efficient organized company. Keep in mind that they will ship out a garment on the accumeasure program in 7 working days and on the MTM program in 12 working days. This is an incredible benefit.

They do mess up occasionally, as with your working buttomhole problem but they are usaully pretty responsive in fixing the problem. In regards to the cloth being out of stock, this almost never happens to them. They have a 24 hour fabric availibility list that you can log onto anytime. In addition, the retailer has the ability while making the sale or just after making the sale to reserve the fabric over the phone, thus verifying that the fabric is available. Once in a blue moon thier computers will show more yardage than actually on hand, but it is extremely rare.

Their best looking models are the Bocelli which is a square shoulder look or the Minelli which is basic natural shoulder. They also have a Kane model which is kind of in between but it has a lower button stance which many clients still prefer.

I rank Coppley higher than John Daniels and higher than H.Freeman. They are on par with Mr. Ned and not far from Martin Greenfield.

Hope this was helpful.


----------



## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

Alan David said:


> I rank Coppley higher than John Daniels and higher than H.Freeman. They are on par with Mr. Ned and not far from Martin Greenfield.
> 
> Hope this was helpful.


Isn't H Freeman fully canvased while Coppley is only half canvased?


----------



## gefinzi (Sep 23, 2005)

I have a MTM suit from Coppley. I only had one done and then moved on to other makers. Not bad, but not great, and definitely below Samuelsohn in the general price range (Samuelsohn has recently increased their price and so is probably more than Coppley, but the quality and cut in my opinion is distinctly better).


----------



## Rolo (Aug 22, 2006)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> Cons.
> 
> 1. Ticket pocket placement. I would have expected the leading edge of the ticket pocket and the regular pocket to align vertically. The ticket pocket in this case is more centered over the regular pocket. Not sure if this is right, wrong or indifferent, but I would have assumed it would be otherwise.


I can't speak to the specific pattern this suit was made from, but tonight I saw some Coppley RTW with the centered ticket pocket. I also saw some Paul Smith's with the ticket pocket aligned to the right (rear). I have to admit I liked both the center alignment and the right alignment.


----------



## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. It's good to know, Rolo and Lawgman, that this wasa deliberate style choice rather than a goof. I can't say that it looks bad. In fact, the suit looks quite good. Coppley might, however, consider putting a drawing of this in their model book to let people know ahead of time. It just caught me off guard. 

With that issue resolved, the only thing I think could be better about the suit at this price point would be full canvassing.

I'm still working on the pictures.


----------



## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Alan David said:


> Here are some other things you and forum members should know. Their opening ranges are all fused while their higher ranges are half canvas. Spend the extra for the higher ranges, it is well worth it.
> 
> I rank Coppley higher than John Daniels and higher than H.Freeman. They are on par with Mr. Ned and not far from Martin Greenfield.


While full canvass isn't the be-all, end-all, I find this statement to be interestingly bold. Coppley needs to offer full canvass. Period.


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

The Louche said:


> While full canvass isn't the be-all, end-all, I find this statement to be interestingly bold. Coppley needs to offer full canvass. Period.


I believe Coppley now offers a full canvas option. It is my understanding that Coppley and the other Canadian makers (Jack Victor, Samuelsohn, S. Cohen) have all improved they respective products to better compete in the States. I have no idea if Coppley is better then H. Freeman or John Daniel, but Coppley is any many more upscale specialty shops then those 2 makers.


----------



## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

nolan50410 said:


> I believe Coppley now offers a full canvas option. It is my understanding that Coppley and the other Canadian makers (Jack Victor, Samuelsohn, S. Cohen) have all improved they respective products to better compete in the States. I have no idea if Coppley is better then H. Freeman or John Daniel, but Coppley is any many more upscale specialty shops then those 2 makers.


What do they charge for a full canvased suit? To compare it to H Freeman, wouldn't we need to know how much more it costs?


----------



## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I have been very happy with my MTM Coppley suit, I do not know the specs as you do, I left it all up to the shop that fitted the suit, and from the moment it came in the fit was perfect.


----------



## goodall (Aug 31, 2008)

I have an MTM Coppley and two Samuelsohns. The Coppley is a beautiful Loro Piana DB and frankly I don't see the superiority of the Samuelsohns. I actually like the construction of the waistband on the trousers better on the Coppley. To me they are equal.


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

I think Coppley is considered second fiddle to Sammy simply because Sammys are all full canvas, while most Coppley suits are half canvas. I know that all of Coppley's RTW garments that I've seen are half canvas. I'd put Coppley just above Jack Victor, but Sammy is solidly ahead of them.


----------



## sidney reilly (May 11, 2014)

*Coppley as a CMT? What do you ask your SA for?*

[continue with QUOTE=Alan David;437012]Mr. Questionable gentleman-excellent quote, allow me to weigh in, however]



Alan David;437012 an Mr. Questionable said:


> Sidney Reilly says: I read your comments about Coppley not being a traditional Custom Made Tailor, but that you can use them in such a way. What would you say to the sales associate to get them to make you a custom made suit? What would you expect the markup to be over and above the OTR model of the same product?
> I prefer Loro Piana and Zegna fabrics. I wish I knew what the price was for Loro Piana and Zega Coppley sportcoats and trousers.
> If I was going to get a 3-piece suit, I would want a vest with a lapel. And I also prefer that my garment is fully lined. In a humid atmosphere it holds its shape better. I have been buying Samuelsohn, drifting toward sport coats, but it seemed as though all of their product line looked like the oriental floor runners in my hallway. I want something conservative, classy, and a bit demur for when I deal with individuals who are know it alls and would rather than talk than listen.
> For slacks, I do prefer a single pleat, cuffed trouser to match the sport coat, shirt and tie. There are generally many people from many military garrisons that gather for our monthly luncheons, so you are either in Class A military attire or a darn good looking sport coat and tie as I described above that distinguishes you as one of the working engineers. Unfortunately we still have to pick up large billboard name cards at the door, with our unit and name. I mark my unit out and put: FOR TUPPERWARE PRODUCTS SEE ME
> ...


----------



## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Holy Zombie thread Batman!

Mr.Reilly,
Welcome to the forum. 

I realize this is your first post, so I'll give you a little tip. It is considered bad form to rssurect a thread that is over 8 years old. It is considered odd to directly address a reply to an OP who has not been active on this forum in over 5 years. It is not productive to attempt communication with inactive members,all but only 1 having made any posts this entire year, the vast majority not in many years.


Finally all the information in this thread is so old as to no longer be relevant. You cannot just assume pricing structure, buisness model, and garment construction has not changed for any of the manufacurers talked about. Too much time has elappsed.


Please enjoy the forum, and we would love to have your input and participaton. But to be relevant it must be somewhat current. Check the dates of threads before resurrecting the dead. It never works out well, just ask Dr. Frankenstein.

BTW: Hartmax Corp. declared bankrupcy in 2008. Coppley Apparel Group was then sold to HMX Canada Acquisition Corp.
in 2009 and renamed The Coppley Corp. So it is no longer the same animal it was when this thread started.

Don't feel put off by my comments, it was just a noobie's error. Enjoy AAAC.:teacha:


----------



## Spex (Nov 25, 2012)

Right you are momsdoc. I just noticed something as well. If my calculations are right you're averaging almost 7 posts a day, each and every day since you joined! There must be an AAAC trophy for that!


----------



## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Yes there is, it's called a BB discount card. I'm sure it will peter out, I know a few who wish it would already. Meanwhile I'm not alone, heck Eagle is at just about the same rate and has been here a lot longer.
SG 67 is probably the current per diem record holder, >12 posts a day.


----------



## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Spex said:


> Right you are momsdoc. I just noticed something as well. If my calculations are right you're averaging almost 7 posts a day, each and every day since you joined! There must be an AAAC trophy for that!


I like it! The AAAC Postmaster.


----------



## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

I'll admit to most words per post. Dickens is my hero. Just be glad I can't stand Tolstoy.


----------



## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

The thing about these zombie threads is

1. Somebody googles something and it hits back here. They click through, forgetting in their haste and excitement at having discovered AAAC, that the thread is actually long expired.

2. The "Similar Threads" links below the thread inadvertently promote more of the same, again with people being so excited at finding AAAC they overlook the dates on the threads and just plunge in, so to speak.

OK well that's my view on the subject of zombie threads !


----------



## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

It looks like Batman might have to visit the little boy's room.


----------



## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

LOL, I'd keep my hands there also, if I had to wear that Speedo. On camera no less.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

momsdoc said:


> It is not productive to attempt communication with inactive members,


----------



## tigerpac (Jan 23, 2014)

Guess I'm in the minority here but, I'd rather see people resurrect an old, dead thread than see the same new threads started over and over. Sometimes the circumstances changes and a new thread is a better idea, but that's not very often.


----------



## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

tigerpac said:


> Guess I'm in the minority here but, I'd rather see people resurrect an old, dead thread than see the same new threads started over and over. Sometimes the circumstances changes and a new thread is a better idea, but that's not very often.


Then we'd only have one thread about Alden v. AE -when we should have numerous, reflecting the different widths, lasts, etc


----------



## GWW (Jan 3, 2014)

And to reinforce your point you waited a month before posting this response?


----------



## graysonhenryrussell (Dec 1, 2014)

I have a samuelsohn I just had made & the ticket pocket is centered. Just saw it, is this correct or did they screw up?


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

graysonhenryrussell said:


> I have a samuelsohn I just had made & the ticket pocket is centered. Just saw it, is this correct or did they screw up?


I'm uncertain what you mean by centered, but I'd be surprised if Sammy screwed up, they're a superb manufacturer.

My understanding of the MTM process is that the retailer's knowledge of how to communicate all of the buyer's wishes is critical during an ordering process which can be quite complex. This is just conjecture, but perhaps there are multiple options for the placement of the ticket pocket? If you're uncertain, or not entirely pleased, I'd ask this question of your retailer.


----------



## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

graysonhenryrussell said:


> I have a samuelsohn I just had made & the ticket pocket is centered. Just saw it, is this correct or did they screw up?


Some makers centre the ticket pocket over the main pocket, though aligning the front edges is the more traditional way to do it.


----------



## graysonhenryrussell (Dec 1, 2014)

Thanks guys. Just left my tailor & the placement on the ticket is OK. I would have preferred it line up directly with lower pocket but its not a screwup.


----------

