# Men's Warehouse Brand Name Suits



## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi all, love this forum. 

This is my first post so a little background first. I have always worked business casual but will soon start a new position, in the healthcare industry!, that is business professional so I need to upgrade my wardrobe. Note: this is not finance or interacting with top executives/clients, in other words I doubt any discerning eyes but I would liked to look/feel good about my suits. I have a decent light grey JNY and two other (black and tan, dont ask) suits I am almost ashamed to wear. The issue is I need to build out fast, say 4 or so suits in the next 2 weeks, without a lot to spend. I hope to get the best value possible now and over time replace/add better finds as I can. Oh I am 33 if that helps.

My specific question is about Men's Warehouse. I dread to ask as all I have read here is bad about it. I was not a huge fan of JAB suits but would do the SG at around 250 each but not sure when they will run the deal.
I have seen people post here they would much rather buy a Joseph Abboud or similar quality from a Nordstrom Rak or Saks Off 5th than ever shop at MW or JAB. I have looked. You can find 1 or 2 if you are lucky in your size/style there and they seem nice. Pricing I have found is sticker $500 with 40% off equaling $300.
Yet I also visited a MW. They run a buy 1 get 1 free deal. They have Joseph Abboud suits there that to my untrained eye (starting to learn cloth feel, stitching, and to feel for a canvas) seem the same as Saks/Nordstrom outlets. They sticker at $600 which works out to $300 each if you buy 2...

Other than the obvious you need to buy 2 for the deal, is there any difference for the ones MW carries? I know MW has their own lower brands where you can buy a $300 suit and get 1 free but are the JA or Jack Victors etc. they carry for $500 to $900 any different than other stores? If so how? Any thoughts on the Pronto Uomo line? Also MW seems to have more styles/sizes for each making it easier to find one. Not sure I would tailor there but if it is the same suit why not buy there? I have no issues with pushy salesmen... I am quite assertive in that regard.

I live on Long Island so any advice where else to try is much appreciated. Again looking for about 4 suits hoping to spend under 1,500 and dont mind buying 2 'decent' (like the ones mentioned above) and one good+ to start. So far my favorite I have tried on is a Hickey Freeman, not sure the line but original price was 1,600, at the Barney's outlet for $800 but that may be out of my range atm. I know my jacket size, most 42R fit me very nicely OTR with just sleeve and possible small waist pinch (the HF was nearly perfect) depending on cut. Saks had Zenga's for $420 as well which were nice imo.

Any advice is appreciated, Thank you!


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## Broadus (Jan 6, 2011)

I can't really answer your questions because I have no experience with Men's Wearhouse. The Jack Victors at MW with the buy get one free sale, though, look like a good buy. You would have four staple suits for $1400, which comes in under your budget. Jack Victor has a good reputation, but I don't know anything about the JV's at MW.

My advice is to filter everything you read around here through the sieve of your own budget and needs. I'm in a very non-profit position and, consequently, have a limited budget. Buy as good as you can with what you can afford and get it tailored, not worrying about what the "Joneses" think.

Hope you the best in your search.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

If you really like the cut of the Jack Victors, I say go for it. Can't go too wrong. BUT, before you buy from MW, realize that Sierratradingpost probably has a better deal on the same suit.

As for the Abboud suits, just go to Nordstrom's Rack. They're only $300 there. I think MW sells the Joe by Joseph Abboud line. Fused pieces of stylish junk. IMPO.

Personally, I wouldn't touch MW with a 50ft pole. I'd take a JAB Platinum suit as a gift, but wouldn't be particularly happy wearing it due to the monstrous arm holes.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

I think Jack Victor or Joseph Abboud would both be fine options. JV is made in Canada and JA is made in the USA and both are half-canvassed construction so I don't think you could go wrong provided that they fit you well and you like the way they fit on you. To echo Leighton, stay away from Joe by Joseph Abboud their fused diffusion line. 

Also, when looking for Zegna suits at Saks, Saks Off 5th or Nordstrom Rack make sure the suit is the mainline Ermenegildo Zegna and not Z Zegna. Z Zegna is fused and much of it is made in Mexico. Also, be careful that the suit is not just made from fabric woven by Ermenegildo Zegna. Many people don't know that Zegna was founded as a textile mill and the bulk of their business even to this day is made from selling fabric.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks for the quick reply guys.

How do you tell what type of Abboud it is? Just seems odd Rack of Off 5th has a better line for 300 and MW has a worse one for 600 plus get one free. Please note I am not tied to MW in any way.

As for Victors they are a little tight in the chest, from lapel to sleeve, area but look nice. Might not be my first choice. Are they better than JAs? Is there only 1 line of JV? And yes Sierra has them for 315 vs 350 when buying 2 but I would rather feel and try on for that slight difference.
I am guessing the Pronto Uomos are not worth looking at despite the high price tag?
If buying online would I not be better with say a $300 'Daniele' from ebay?

Off 5th also has Zenga both the Loro Piana and Ermenegildo Zegna for about 350. I have 3 Off 5s near me and a Rack so I do not mind searching if need be. I have not hit the Rack yet but hope to find some HF there on sale as I really liked those. Are the Zengas as nice?

And thanks Broadus, I hear you. I do not mind starting with 'can afford' but do not want the wool pulled over my eyes, no pun intended . So if it takes searching outlets instead of the convenience of a MW I do not mind so long as the deals are actually better. I hate wasting money and feel the same about time. I know the RL, CK, KC, etc. at MW are the crap versions but was not sure on the +500 suits. Hate the thought of even spending 200 if its not going to look good or hold up.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

thefancyman- missed your post while typing. Same question on telling which JA line it is and if JV has more than one...

And again for Zenga... I assume if it were Z Zenga it would say on the tag, or I can check where it is made. But how do you tell if it is mainline or just made from? Again I will assume if it is a Saks 5th Ave suit by Ermenegildo Zenga that it is just fabric and stay away? Same for Loro Piana? So hard to tell from tags... really needs to be some regulations like in the food industry for suits. Tell us the wool and micron counts, tell us the canvas situation, weave, harness, etc. stop the shadiness! Sorry for that, just frustrating when starting out.
I know Barneys outlet had their own line with fabric by Loro Piana priced just under HF. Does this mean the suit uses good fabric but may not have good construction? I am now worried about the 'Zengas' I saw at Off 5ths.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

When shopping at the outlet stores just look carefully at the tags attached to the suit and the inner label of the jacket. Joe by Jsoeph Abboud should have different tags and inner label than JA and it should say "Joe by Joseph Abboud." The same with the Zegna suits at Off 5th etc. Typically suits that are only made from Zegna or Loro Piana fabric will just have the tag sewn on the outer sleeve cuff and that's it. However, sometimes they may have a similar small rectangular label on the inside of the jacket. The suits that use the Zegna and LP fabric may be good quality or bad it depends but it might be better to just stick to brands that you know are good quality. As far as I know Jack Victor doesn't have a diffusion line like Joseph Abboud.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Cool, thanks. So ignore the sleeve and go by the inner pocket at outlets. I will check the JAs carefully and feel safe with JVs so long as they fit right even at MWs but pretty much steer very clear of any other brand there. Speaking of any thoughts on Pronto Uomo?

Better yet, any tips where to find HF at a good price? Or similar suits to HF in fit/style/etc? So far that really has been my favorite but I am becoming resigned to the fact my first batch will not as nice as I can get 2 or 3 suits for the price and will have to wait to supplement my collection down the line... Guess that is why they say ignorance is bliss, until I tried that one all of the non-cheap suits felt pretty much the same to me. Now I am starting to pick up differences, unfortunately I only tried the HF yesterday so now need to go revisit my previous stops. So glad I went in with the mindset of not buying anything on the first pass!

Are 'Daniele' from Ahhs a good alternative? I am a little leery of buying sight unseen but do not know a store to find a Baroni to try on though all I have read say they are good.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Just go to the Rack. You'd be surprised.

Baroni is on par with Joseph Abboud and Jack Victor in terms of construction. They might have nicer feeling fabrics. None of those is on par with H-F in terms of construction. But HF is not on par with Oxxford either so...

And to throw in another brand, there is HSM Gold Trumpeter. There's also Burberry at the Rack. And John W. Nordstrom signature line. All of those are half canvassed too.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Will do. Unfortunately there is only 1 Rack near me, and by near it is 45 to 60 minutes away, but I will be around there on Friday and check for those brands. Seems like there is a better selection than Off 5th which is a shame as there are 2 within 30 minutes of me and I have some nice 20% coupons for them which help cancel out the lovely NY sales tax...

Oh and BB 346 line is not worth it right? That seems to be all they have at their outlets and if that is a BB suit I do not get the hype. I think there is an actual BB store near the Rack by me, is it worth checking?


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

Take the day off and come to the great state of New Jersey where there is no sales tax on clothing :icon_smile_big:.

Anyway, to answer more of your questions. Select MWs do sell Hickey Freeman so you might want to check a few out in your area. Also, the 346 branded BB suits are strictly outlet only merchandise and are fused. BB 1818 suits are a whole different beast. Not as good as HF but better than Victor or Abboud in my opinion.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

ryall12 said:


> Will do. Unfortunately there is only 1 Rack near me, and by near it is 45 to 60 minutes away, but I will be around there on Friday and check for those brands. Seems like there is a better selection than Off 5th which is a shame as there are 2 within 30 minutes of me and I have some nice 20% coupons for them which help cancel out the lovely NY sales tax...
> 
> Oh and BB 346 line is not worth it right? That seems to be all they have at their outlets and if that is a BB suit I do not get the hype. I think there is an actual BB store near the Rack by me, is it worth checking?


You've got it.

Personally, I buy very little from BB, and only heavily discounted. Because of my size (very small), I usually stay away from BB. Everything is vanity sized, and I can't even get an actual 30" waist pant from them. I did just buy a couple of Bermuda shorts from them during the 25% off corporate weekend, but that was because they offered to take in the waist and inseam for free. Plus, I can't find shorts in my size and in a good inseam so tailoring + other shorts = BB shorts, and I'd rather have the BB shorts at that point.

That said, the BrooksBuys plus corporate card plus mastercard = good deal on pants and other items. I'd do the BB on the Golden Fleece with the Brooksbuys + 25% off corp card if the arm holes weren't so damn low.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Time off isnt an issue atm but between tolls and gas any tax savings probably goes out the window, guess that depends how good of sales you know in the area though.

So from the posts sounds like a BB may be better but not twice as good as JA or JV so even with 25% their suits right now come out to about $600 making it not worth the trip. Maybe later when I am in the situation I can expand a bit more and allow myself to try on a GF.

Though now I have to travel to as many MWs as possible... if I can find a HF, and if they actually have one of the real mainlines, for under 500 I would jump on it.
Either way hopefully Rack will be good to me and if not I know there are some JA and JVs at 5th I can find for under 300 which seems like a good starting plan. Maybe I will try for one of the Zengas and hope the reading I have done here can help me detect a canvas and wool feel, though for sub 350 I figure it is worth a shot if it fits nice, but I would much rather wait for a 450 HF if possible.

There are other brands at 5th as well but I know they have many line levels and do not feel up to playing that game, most felt cheaper than the JA and JVs. Though there was one other brand with a higher sticker that I did not even check as I did not recognize the name at all: Theory. Anyone heard of that one? Worth looking at?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

It's better to get two good quality suits -- grey and navy to start -- than to get four inferior suits for the same price. Rotate them; don't wear the same suit twice in a row. You say you are embarrassed by the two suits you have. Buy for longevity and stick with the classics. You can get some tasteful pinstripes when you have the extra cash after starting your new job. Three piece suits and double breasteds are underappreciated these days, but might be a little "extravagant" depending on who you work with. (Patients?) Use common sense.

Now, that said, all my suits are from thrift stores or eBay. It's inexpensive, but I understand that some people are turned off by secondhand clothing or don't have the patience to wade through a bunch of ugly polyester suits from the '70s to find quality wool suits. That's fine. But you need to have an eye for quality, fit, know your sizes, and know what you want if you go that route.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

I most definitely plan on a navy and dark charcoal to go with the lighter grey I already have, the other 2 yes are slightly embarrassing but were purchased when I was much younger. I was hoping to have at least 5 serviceable ones to start though not counting those two.

So are you saying the JA or JVs discussed above fall into the inferior category? Or to just be smart and find good ones? As in I could potentially buy 4 JVs, or some combo thereof with JA etc., for around 1,200 or I could buy 2 BB 1818 or HFs for the same. Is one a better path to start? Or some combination of the two as in 2 JV/JA etc and 1 BB or HF?

Please note after this starter push out I plan to spend more time looking to build out slowly with quality.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I would go with the BB 1818 suits, personally.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

I'm pretty sure MW Abbouds (if they're full price is around $600) are from Peerless. These are not to be confused with US made Abbouds that sell for a lot more (*the distinction is harder to make now that Peerless is selling Joseph Abboud, not just "Joe" by Joseph Abboud*).

Peerless (the largest maker of suits around) makes most of the diffusion lines you see at mass retailers and department stores. Lines like Micheal Kors, CK, DKNY, Joe Abboud, Chaps Ralph Lauren, etc. They're priced at around $600 and are a total ripoff at full price. They price them so high so that MW, Macy's et al can run 40% off, BOGO, etc. and make you think you're getting a good deal. Around $300 for a Peerless garment is a good price.

That's not to say Peerless makes bad suits. They're machine made and all fused but they are durable, serviceable suits for most guys. They use decent fabrics and they allow middle income guys to have a more designer 'look'. Just don't overpay.

JV is another beast entirely. *Assuming *MW's JV's are the same as mine, getting 4 for $1400 is an outstanding bargain if they fit you well. The JV's I carry are a great mid-range suit - half canvased with bemberg linings, nice cotton pockets, and great fabrics from mills like Zegna, Loro Piana, etc. They are great quality work suits that wear well.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Keep in mind, "Chaps Ralph Lauren" doesn't exist anymore. It's just "Chaps" now, since RL sold the name years ago.

I have a suit by that brand from a couple decades ago that is made in Canada. For a fused suit it's not too bad. Better than many I have seen from those other brands you mention. It may very well have been made by Peerless, since the website says their factory is in Montreal. If so, then their quality has fallen quite a bit already!


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks Mr. Mac that was exactly what I was looking for. The other answers were more than helpful as well but I was pretty sure the suit did not say Joe inside on the JAs and this explains why everyone trashes MW. You say Peerless is not bad for 300 but if I can get a real JA at Off 5th for the same price that is much better right?

The only question left is if those JVs are the real deal there or not. If so seems a decent deal though they had far fewer of them than the other brands. This makes me think they may be real, but then again with so few to choose from I can hit Rack or Off 5th and have about the same selection for the same price and a better chance it is real. I may still try a few MWs to see if I get lucky and find a HF though I doubt my luck would run so high there. But they are near all the other stores and now that I know what I am looking for, or close to it, 10 minutes to check the 42/43 rack quickly is not bad.
And no worries Jovan, none of the other 'brands' at MW felt worthwhile to me but thanks for the tip!

I believe I will be adding thrift stores to my list and checking there. After the tips here and other forums I read, along with that very helpful Hierarchy of Quality post, I hope I can find a few steals. If not I believe my plan is to get a couple deals at Rack and/or Off 5th plus a nicer one (2 JV or equivalent for under 600 then a BB/HF/etc for 6 to 700). Seems a good compromise where I will have at least 1 'good' suit yet still have enough 'decent / serviceable' suits to fill out a week to start. Then I can either add more at my leisure as sales arise or with luck at thrift/outlets as my eye and familiarity improves.


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## Top Guns (Apr 29, 2010)

Going back to the very first post, I would redirect to the original question: can the OP build out 4 suits by purchasing them through TMW on a budget? The answer is YES. Quality of TMW suits? These suits are for the most part all fused suits (yes, even the JA and JVs). However, the original post also made it very clear that discerning eyes were not the issue--this is not executive board room dress, this is entry-level suit dress. So, getting four suits from TMW for $1200 is a great deal--assuming you get a good fit.

Also, with TMW you receive free alterations for the life of the garment (for any alterations you paid for--ergo, if you decide you want your pants let out a little, or your sleeves shortened a bit, it's already paid for once you've paid for those alterations a first time), and free pressing. That's right--you need a pressing for a TMW-bought suit, just take it in and they will do it there for you while you wait, free of charge.

These are considerations for the man on a budget, not getting half as many suits as you would like at twice the price for each. The people the OP will be working with will most likely buy their suits from TMW, JAB, and the like. I doubt picking up a HF or two is going to end up feeling like a good deal to the OP when he wears the same blue and gray suits every day, alternating days.

Nobody has answered the question of Pronto Uomo. I have no experience with this line so cannot answer. But I say try it on, see how it fits, check the quality of construction, and if the suit fits, wear it.

I do hope this helps.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

Jovan said:


> Keep in mind, "Chaps Ralph Lauren" doesn't exist anymore. It's just "Chaps" now, since RL sold the name years ago.


My mistake. I was actually referring to "Lauren - Ralph Lauren" not Chaps.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

Top Guns said:


> Nobody has answered the question of Pronto Uomo.


Pronto Uomo suits are imported by San Malone Enterprises out of SoCal. I sell a lot of suits made by the same company (in fact one of my labels is nearly identical). They are an inexpensive suit that you shouldn't pay more than about $200 for. An absolute step down from Peerless, but better than going naked.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

Top Guns said:


> Going back to the very first post, I would redirect to the original question: can the OP build out 4 suits by purchasing them through TMW on a budget? The answer is YES. Quality of TMW suits? These suits are for the most part all fused suits (yes, even the JA and JVs).


That's a real shame if they really are fused at the prices they charge because I believe Nordstrom charges $700 for a Joseph Abboud suit and Jack Victor sells for around $700-800.

If they are in fact fused I wouldn't bother even browsing a MW if you were going to pay anywhere near $600 for a fused suit because that's a rip off.

I checked the MWs website and they list JVs at $699.99 full price which leads me to believe they are the half-canvassed versions but the JAs are listed at $599.99 which is too low so they probably are not the kind of Abboud they sell at Nordstroms or Saks and are probably fused.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Ok so I spent a good day checking out suits, I am going to miss having time off. Can not imagine shopping like this if I didnt. Lets start with MW. First off thank you again to AAAC as it was a wonderful shopping experience and I was complimented on my knowledge which was all thanks to here. To all those who hate heavy pressure sales just start sharing some knowledge and they quickly back off. As in when I was browsing the girl told me some jackets looked good even when they did not hang well. After we started speaking she only grabbed a few that would actually work for me. Anyway I digress.
First off this is MW so nothing is ever full price, pretty much every 'sale' works out to half price. With that in mind I will use sticker prices as they help tell what item is what at times:

HF - you can get lucky and find some there but they sell quickly and not many. The bad news, most are Hickey line. The good news is they do not know the difference and price them the same: 1,100. Which at buy 1 get 1 is not bad... if you can find 2 mainlines in your size and a decent color/style. Guess its worth checking

Pronto Uomo - this is their store brand according to the girl there. There are many quality levels, most ok at best. The highest priced line, only way to really tell them apart, was actually sort of nice. Price is 699.99 I believe and they are made in Italy, label says 120s and feels pretty good, also feels to me to be a half canvas so really not bad. But they are very European fit which is not for me.
So again if you go top of the line here it can be decent and at half price (350). The rest are your call at 200 which is about half for most of them.

JA - most were not great. Again there were multiple price levels yet all labels were the same... kind of hit and miss. And yes every one I checked seemed fused. I did not check them all and some did feel nice. Shame too as I like the cut. If one takes the time to look I am sure there are some good JAs there for a decent deal but I feel its a bit deceptive. I will be checking Rack and Off 5th more closely tomorrow to try and compare.
At 200 at MW seems a decent deal, but some sticker at 500+ which changes things if not a true JA.

JV - apparently there are 2 lines here. Jack Victor makes a JV line which is a fused suit with not as nice wool and a tighter fit. Most at MW were this model. Again the to priced, 699.99, were mainly the real Victors and felt half-canvassed and of nice wool. To me they were about the same as the high priced PU mentioned above but fit me nicer.
The 'JV' line was like the rest of the stuff there but still stickers for at least 500 so imo not worth it. At 350 for the true Victor there its pretty good, just make sure to check its a real one.

The rest were well the rest. Except for a new one I had never seen before:

Jhane Barnes - I did some reading. This used to be a mid-tier or better Italian line. They moved their operations to China to try and take advantage of lower labor costs and existing set-up of machinery / textile movement etc. There is a write up in the WSJ about it: https://www.chinalawblog.com/2008/03/made_in_china_es_tu_zegna.html
Anyway basically says they are still on par with some big boys. The suit said it was 140s and it felt good to me, better than the mainline JVs there and the PU that said it was 120s. It also felt to me to be fully, yes fully, canvassed. After feeling it I also found a tag claiming as much. Plus the article above states they are now as they found they could offer this for a lower price than before due to lower costs. Quality seemed good to me, nice stitching on lapels, seams, etc. Only issue is it stickers for 799.99 which is a bit more than I wanted to spend per suit. Then again for 140s and full canvas might not be bad? They have a lovely dark charcoal in stores. There is also nice dark brown stripe on the website I may ask them to bring in.
Right now I have them holding the charcoal and a Jack Victor navy suit with a pattern I can not describe... it is not on the MW website and best I can tell on the JV site, if this one is a current model, it is this one:

If I get their charge card which gives 5% off then a 50 gift it may not be a bad deal. Would be about 710 for both, or I can try to have them bring in the brown JB or another JV but then I need to see it to make sure its a Victor not a JV...

So that was my MW experience. Not sure where else the JB is selling but go check them out. I think they may have been the second nicest suit I tried on to the HF mainline. Really debating a 400 splurge on it.

Oh they also had a HSM there. It was a bit light and heavily striped for my taste, grey and again not on their website. Felt nice and seemed constructed nicely, made in USA tag. However it felt 100% fused to me which was surprising. The girl agreed, though this was after we spoke and she may just have been deferring to my limited knowledge but I could not feel anything like a canvas and even gave a tug or two near the chest area and heard/felt the tearing of glue. Very disappointing. Think that one was 699 too but may have been 599. Do not get me wrong it was a very nice suit, just think its a rip at the price as you are paying for name without the quality.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

I also forgot the rest of my trip. I bought 3-1/2 suits today:

Navy pin stripe, not my first choice of striping as they are wide and pronounced, 3-button (again not my preference), side vented, made in Italy, David Chu label. Feels great and near as I can tell is half-canvas.

Dark grey window pane (believe this is what the navy JV mentioned above is) HSM Gold made in USA, 2 button rear vented (prefer side..) feels even better and again near as I can tell is half-canvas

Solid navy Louis Dell'Olio made in Italy, 3-button (again not first choice), no vent (I am partial to no vent) also near as I can tell half-canvas

A dark grey stripe Zanetti made in Italy, 3 button, rear vented, great feel and near as I can tell fully canvassed... but this one is the half as it came with no pants 

So yes I hit some thrift stores today and am decently satisfied with my $70 or so spent. Now I just need to hit a good tailor and dry cleaner. I figure even with any alterations/cleanings they should all come out to less than I would spend on 1 suit and now I have less pressure when I shop! Plan to hit a few more as I go.
Oh also found a mint E Zenga but it was at least a 50... was in great shape and a great color/style too. Maybe next time in my size.

Tomorrow is Rack, Off 5th, Syms, and another MW maybe plus a local mens shop and maybe a thrift or two if time.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

ryall12 said:


> Oh they also had a HSM there. It was a bit light and heavily striped for my taste, grey and again not on their website. Felt nice and seemed constructed nicely, made in USA tag. However it felt 100% fused to me which was surprising.


Regular HSM suits have a completely fused front but with a padded lapel. HSM Gold Trumpeter is half-canvass construction.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Ah ha thank you. I was afraid to check them out in my travels but now I know what to look for. Make sure it says Gold Trumpeter.
I was also informed there are many lines of JA and to look for either a green or black label as that normally designates the 'good' stuff.

Rack had a decent selection, bit better than 5th though 5th has better discounts if you find something. Plus 5th has plenty of their Zengas which are pretty nice and at 350 seem a good price imo.

MW I went to today had a Zenga with a 699 sticker so its 350 there. Seemed like the real deal to me so just goes to show you never know what you may find there...

The other store I hit had Baroni suits at 500. Apparently these are made in China now. Fully canvassed and nice fit for me at least. Felt nice too, not as nice as a HF but equal or better than the HSMs I saw imo. Not sure about the 500 tag especially with ebay. Glad I got to try one on though as they were a nice fit and now if I see a good ebay deal I know my size in them is right.

I also hit BB. Those 1818s were very nice. Still think I like a HF better but they felt nice and fit very nice. Unfortunately I can not remember which cut was which but I know there was a slim, middle, and boxier fit. The slim and middle were great on me, the boxy not so much. I also found in their suits I need a Long where in pretty much every other brand a R is right. Very nice suits imo, not sure for the price though. Maybe when they have a sale. Now its 1,600 for two and even if you get a CC for 25% off thats 600 a suit... I know I can get just as nice for 500 or less so they need a sale.

Which brings me to Syms. That place rocks! Anyone know if they have coupons or sales? Or how their dividends thing works? They had plenty of HFs, and not the Hickey line the good ones, all for 500. Yes no matter the original sticker they were all 500. So there were some 1,100 ones there but I also found a few 1,600 madisons there all for 500. That was still more than I want to spend per suit so I held off... may kick myself if the really nice madison is gone by the time i go back but if I found it once right?
Anyway they also had plenty of E Zengas for 499 and HSM for 350 but would need to see if any Golds.
They also had Oxxfords for either 900 or 1,000 I forget but man were those nice. There was an awesome black with deep purple window pane I wish was in my budget... They also had a Dolce and Gabbana for about the same price but only 1.

So now I am most likely going to nix the JB from MW for 400 if I can do HF at 500... both are more than I wanted to spend but when you are that high already get the better one right? Or wait for a sale while I load up on lower priced options like thrift or luck at 5th
Speaking of I just found a coupon for Syms (Filene's) https://filenesbasement.com/img/email/Coupon.jpg which appears I can get the HF now for 400, or possibly 375 if I get their CC, meaning I may be going back this weekend...


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## Broadus (Jan 6, 2011)

Sounds like a great day out. You have a lot of good options. Keep us posted.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

ryall12 said:


> MW I went to today had a Zenga with a 699 sticker so its 350 there. Seemed like the real deal to me so just goes to show you never know what you may find there...


Sounds like a Z Zegna. Fused diffusion line. Not worth it.



> The other store I hit had Baroni suits at 500. Apparently these are made in China now. Fully canvassed and nice fit for me at least. Felt nice too, not as nice as a HF but equal or better than the HSMs I saw imo. Not sure about the 500 tag especially with ebay. Glad I got to try one on though as they were a nice fit and now if I see a good ebay deal I know my size in them is right.


How are you determining full canvassing? Just because you can separate the canvas from the fabric, doesn't mean its fully canvassed. Half canvassing separates the canvas from the fabric too, but there's also a very thin fused piece attached to the fabric. Even some really good fused stuff allows you to pull the fabric from the canvas if you try hard enough, but it leaves some wrinkling for a bit. To determine actual full canvassing, you need to feel the fabric rubbing up against itself. Compare to the sleeves where there is no fusing and only a lining.

If the SA told you so, they're a liar. Baroni is half canvassed.



> I also hit BB. Those 1818s were very nice. Still think I like a HF better but they felt nice and fit very nice. Unfortunately I can not remember which cut was which but I know there was a slim, middle, and boxier fit. The slim and middle were great on me, the boxy not so much. I also found in their suits I need a Long where in pretty much every other brand a R is right. Very nice suits imo, not sure for the price though. Maybe when they have a sale. Now its 1,600 for two and even if you get a CC for 25% off thats 600 a suit... I know I can get just as nice for 500 or less so they need a sale.


If they fit you, you have the credit card, and you have the corporate card, that is a great deal on a 25% corporate weekend. Or even now during their member appreciation thing. Good deal. Although it is half canvassed, still a good deal. But! You can step up to Golden Fleece for just a tiny bit more. I know, options options and more money. But keep it in mind. I'd do it if I had the money and it fit, and they didn't have those stupid low arm holes.

All in all, sounds like a good educational day for you.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Yes it was and I believe I am going to go pull the trigger on that HF suit today if it is still there and my coupon works. Should come out to 375 which would b great.

Zenga - internal label just said cloth by E Zenga, made in Italy so not sure. But I did feel a half canvas, the cloth was very nice, and construction seemed good. There was only the one and it was stickered for 800 but on sale for 700. Again not sure. The SA knew nothing but his boss or some such was there and he seemed like he know something. Told me it was a harnessed suit and did not flinch when I asked 3 or 4, said it was 3. So again not sure but might be worth checking.

Baroni - I am no expert but I am picking up how to check these things. I felt canvassing in the suit and could not find a break point until under the bottom pocket. The SA told me they changed to full canvas after moving their operations to China as they could now offer this service for a lower price than before due to labor etc. He only confirmed this after I felt it. Again I am still new to this but I have felt many in the past few days and did pick up the HSM was fused even though I felt it believing all HSM were at least half. I have been using this post as a guide: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...86160-Canvas-half-canvas-etc.-explained/page2
So I could easily be wrong, felt that way to me though. I never felt an Italian made Baroni to compare though. Either way not my first choice for the price range.

BB - They did not have the GF in store... wish they did. Are holes, at least on the slimmer fit models, were good for me. The boxier cut, again forget the line, yes I agree there was too much room there. Just for the price (600 a suit even with all discounts) I still think others are just as good/better. Will check again near father's day or Xmas for sales.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

My quick response is that I recently purchased my first BB suit. I've worn several other quality brands and simply wanted to try a BB. I live close to a BB and it was very convenient so I gave it a try. I purchased an 1818 Fitzgerald and I'm very happy with my purchase. With my Ask Andy corporate card and BB credit card I received a combined discount of approx. 36-37%. 

The tailor did a beautiful job and I received a call from the tailor 2 days prior to the "delivery" date telling me the suit was available for pick-up. For the price, the suit fits well, looks great and feels great. The staff in the store was friendly, helpful and never pushy and the tailor did a great job. What else could I ask for?


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## TheBarbaron (Oct 8, 2010)

Hello, forum-goers. Long time lurker, occasional poster.

I'm a wardrobe consultant working for TMW, so I came to offer information about the lines carried, candidly.

Joseph Abboud - these are from Peerless, as are many of the mid-tier (for OTR) brands in the store. They're not a bad suit at BOGO (I own one myself). MW used to carry mainly JOE suit separates, those have been phased out in favor of the regular label suits; they are still manufactured offshore. (Ticket: $599)

Jack Victor - Again, primarily we used to carry the JV by Jack Victor line, though that has been changing. These are Canadian made, but not JV's top of the line. (Ticket: $699)

HSM - Mostly mainline, a few Travelor's floating about. These are thinning out, to a certain degree, though there are a few notable patterns still on offer. (Ticket $699)

Jhane Barnes - great fabric, ok construction. Super 140s, which has a nice soft hand, offshore manufacture. Personally, they don't fit me very well, and I've found few enough people who are in love with the fit, but not a bad choice overall. (Ticet: $799)

Pronto Uomo, Joseph & Feiss, Wilke-Rodiguez, the now thankfully vanishing Versinis are all TMW house brands. Wilke is the inexpensive modern fit. J&F is the RL/JNY style more traditional fit, mid-tier $399-$499 (again, for OTR) with a few trios. Pronto is more slim lined, and goes from suit separates and basics at $399, Pronto Couture and Platinum at $499-599, and the top of the line Pronto Signature at $699. The Pronto Signatures are constructed in Italy, of pretty good fabrics, and are a nice feel, though very slim fitting. The others are mainly workhorse suits - fairly durable, conservative colors, basic.

Tallia ($699) is a super-slim fit line (possibly also from Peerless?). Soft hand, great fit - I have some qualms about the fabrics involved, as there is a small (3-5%) amount of synthetics involved, but still pretty popular. 

More standard OTR brands - RL (regular label), CK, JNY, etc. All offshore, mid-tier quality, price running from $450-$550.

As for prices, it is important to note - Buy One Get One Free happens reasonably often. When that is not on (which is the best deal for shirts, ties, accessories), suits are BOGO for $100. In addition, many, perhaps most, lines are marked down in these offperiods - the effect being that with some diligence, most suits still end up around 50% off in pairs, sometimes, slightly more. 

While those of us in the company who do care about sartorial image and professionalism are irritated by the growing JosABank type of sales pitches, as long as you are buying pairs, the suits are not a bad deal. Unless you specifically restrict yourself to one suit at purchase, you'll never pay anything approaching the quoted ticket price. 

If there are further questions, just respond to this thread, and I'll be glad to give what info I can. (Checking up on the provenance of our Zegnas today, which I don't normally carry in my store.)


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## Broadus (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for your contribution to the thread, Barbaron.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

ryall12 said:


> Zenga - internal label just said cloth by E Zenga, made in Italy so not sure. But I did feel a half canvas, the cloth was very nice, and construction seemed good. There was only the one and it was stickered for 800 but on sale for 700. Again not sure. The SA knew nothing but his boss or some such was there and he seemed like he know something. Told me it was a harnessed suit and did not flinch when I asked 3 or 4, said it was 3. So again not sure but might be worth checking.


That makes sense now. It's not even a Zegna suit. It is just a suit made with Zegna cloth.


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## Cal27 (Mar 23, 2011)

Barbaron, are any of the suits that you sell canvassed? (either half or full)


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## TheBarbaron (Oct 8, 2010)

Home from work, finally. Curse Prom season in the tux rental industry.

I did some more research today on brands that are not always in my store. (MW merchandisers select brands based on markets - for instance, I live in a conservative, fairly rural area, so we don't have a lot of Zegnas or Hickey Freemans, but I do have an excessive amount of OCBDs.)

Our Zegnas (which are not listed on the website) are primarily of the Traveler line, a wool/silk blend. Some interesting patterns on those, very lightweight. I didn't have one on hand to check price. They are not Z for Zegna, to my knowledge. 

We have a slim selection of Hickey Freeman suits and tuxedos; most are in NYC markets, a few online; they run very conservatively, charcoal and charcoal pinstripe, peak lapel tux and black tails. They ticket at around $1200.

A correction for the Tallias mentioned earlier - some of them are wool with a small amount of poly, some are a 90/10 wool/cashmere blend, and most confusingly, some are a mix of all three, which sounds atrocious, but I haven't witnessed personally.

@Cal,
The short answer to your question is "Yes." The medium answer is "Only half-canvassed" (except for possibly the Hickey Freemans - I don't have any on hand to check). 
The long answer is that some of the Jhane Barnes, HSM specialty lines, Tallia, Victors, and a few others are half-canvassed. Because MW buys primarily two ways:
1) continuing lines, something that we carry consistently from season to season, and
2) opportunistically, snapping up a large lot of product when convenient (what gave us our HSMs) and selling them until they're gone

it is difficult to say with great accuracy how many models at any given time have canvassing. The sales staff in my store knows its business, and we check over suits we receive to be able to speak knowledgeably about them. I wish that I could say every store runs the same way, but that would be a bit naive. The best advice would be to talk to the most experienced salesperson at your local MW about what he has that is half-canvassed, and then check those suits yourself. Most consultants are well-meaning, but if they're less sartorially obsessed than AAAC members, they may take word of mouth for their authority rather than being able to tell the difference.


At the risk of extending this wall of text even further, I know TMW gets a bad rap here. Some of that is deserved. With a bad wardrobe consultant pushing lesser brands, you could easily misspend your money; but with a good one, who is knowledgeable and respects quality, you can find some pretty good deals. Nothing we carry is up to bespoke quality, and very little to custom, but if you're like me and have a finite budget for your infinite sartorial desires, it can be a good place to spend some time and money. 

Finally, a shameless plug: Allen-Edmonds has agreed this week to include their shoes in our current promotion (which is BOGO 1/2 off on shoes). It's a limited selection (Van Ness, some slip ons, and a few others, all rubber soled), but not a bad way to get a few pairs of quality workhorse shoes at $285 for one, half off for the 2nd pair.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

ryall12 said:


> Unfortunately I can not remember which cut was which but I know there was a slim, middle, and boxier fit. The slim and middle were great on me, the boxy not so much.


The "boxier" fit is the Madison which is BB's most traditional cut. The middle one you tried was probably the Regent or the Fitzgerald. Personally, I prefer the Regent of the 4 fits that BB offers because it's fuller than the Fitz but with a bit of waist suppression. The slimmest may have been the Fitz or even the Milano. I have no experience with the Milano fit and I haven't even seen one in a BB store or heard any AAAC members buying a Milano suit. Milano is supposed to be inspired by an Italian/European cut. If the suit pants are anything like the Milano Advantage Chinos I at least like the cut of the pants.



TheBarbaron said:


> Hello, forum-goers. Long time lurker, occasional poster.


Thanks for the very informative post Barbaron. It's good to have people working in the industry on AAAC. I remember a while back we had a member who worked for JAB and he was quite helpful. I don't know if he is still a member.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Another thanks Barbaron, very helpful there and great to know. I agree, with some looking and the right person helping you there are definitely some good values to be had there.

I liked the JB and it fit me nicely. Can not speak to construction, will take your word, but yes it was soft. I also believe it was fully canvassed. I was told the move to China made this possible as lower costs allows for this more expensive feature yet kept prices in line. I felt the full canvas before asking. Again I am no expert but if you have 1 in store check it out. Would much prefer that one at 699 though.
So if I read that right its better to buy during the BOGO 100 than the BOGO free? Maybe I will check the JB again then, really want to see the brown stripe in person.


fancyman: that sounds right. The Fitz fit me but I preferred the Regent as well. Do not remember the name Milano so that was not there.
DocD: what did that work out to per suit? With the right pricing I did really like the BB Regents.

Though I also purchased 2 suits yesterday. Syms with the coupon and card I came away with two HF suits for about 800 including tax and alterations! Syms was not my first choice to alter the suits but you cant beat free... Plus they fit so nicely OTR they really only needed hemming and sleeve leveling. Navy with subtle pin retail of 1,695 and a dark grey with subtle window pane (they did not have the pin) normal retail of either 1,495 or 1,395. Either way a steal imo.
I love those suits.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

TheBarbaron said:


> I know TMW gets a bad rap here. Some of that is deserved. With a bad wardrobe consultant pushing lesser brands, you could easily misspend your money; but with a good one, who is knowledgeable and respects quality, you can find some pretty good deals. Nothing we carry is up to bespoke quality, and very little to custom, but if you're like me and have a finite budget for your infinite sartorial desires, it can be a good place to spend some time and money.


+1

Even a man a modest means should be able to dress well and look good. A good salesman at a discount retailers can work wonders with a small budget.


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## Cal27 (Mar 23, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Barbaron. My local options are limited, so I may have to go with TMW.


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## TheBarbaron (Oct 8, 2010)

@Ryall

I'm going to recheck my Jhane Barnes stock tomorrow when I head back for another week or high school kids renting white pinstripe monstrosities and wearing patent leather sneakers. 
If the JBs do turn out to be fully canvassed, that will be a pleasant surprise; I suspect they'll be half-canvassed. The fabric is certainly remarkable for OTR. For whatever reason, as stated, the pitch of the arms never suits me quite right. I suspect my tailors could realign the sleeve on the shoulder, but I've yet to test the hypothesis.

As for price, the main takeaway point is not to necessarily be pressured into a fast decision by the BOGO Free sale of limited duration. For shirts, belts, socks, shoes, casual wear, BOGO Free is by far the best sale of the year. For suits, it's nearly equivalent to what we're running all the time. 

Example: Jhane Barnes tickets at $799. Joseph Abboud tickets at $599. Pronto Uomo Suit Separates ticket at $399. 

During BOGO Free, obviously Jhane Barnes suits cost ~$400, JA about ~300, and Pronto Separates about ~200, when buying pairs.

The next week, the store will go back to BOGO for $100. 
Brands A, B, C, D, and Jhane Barnes will also be marked down from ticket $150-200.
Brands E, F, G, and JA will be marked down from ticket $100.
Brands H, I, J, K will be marked down from ticket $50. 
Pronto Separates will be marked down from ticket to anywhere from $229-$279 to cater the first suit/ one suit customer.
Brands L, M, N, and O will remain at ticket price.

Now it's something of a crapshoot which brands and lines are marked down in the "normal" sale period, but half to 3/4 of them will be. The worst you will do price wise is ticket price + 100, if you need the suits then and there.
Often, you will get essentially BOGOFree (ticket price marked down ~100, +100 for second suit). And sometimes, particularly at both the top and bottom of our lines, you will do better than BOGO free. I've seen Jhane Barnes marked to $599, or HSM to $499. 

TLDR: suit/sportcoat deals remain about the same year round, with a very few exceptions. BOGO free is the best promotion for everything else, usually.


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## Vudoo (Sep 28, 2006)

Barbaron -

Are there costal differences in how MW fills the distribution channels? I assume from your earlier post that differences are seen market to market but it would be interesting to see if there was a strong difference between what the east vs. west coast gets.


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## TheBarbaron (Oct 8, 2010)

In short, there are regional, cultural, and income differences in distribution all over the company. New product lines are debuted in markets that seem conducive; a new line of Italian cut, slim fit, high end suits will probably debut in NYC stores, and markets similar. A new snakeskin shoe will likely debut in Atlanta; a linen suit in Miami; or a canvas slip on on the West Coast.

The long answer is that once a product is out there, someone orders it in to their store to sell to a customer, and protocol kicks in over initial judgments; a fellow salesman brought in a metallic silver sharkskin suit for a particular customer who just had to have one for the Country Music Awards last week; the merchandiser saw that we can apparently sell this hideous thing, and before we knew it, we had a dozen of the things in house, where with a little luck they will rot on the rack. 

In theory there are a lot of differences from area to area in what is carried, but almost all products can be and are brought in from anywhere and everywhere.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Just to update I finally brought my finds to be tailored and dry cleaned. Total came out to about 170 for all cleanings and alterations bringing the grand total for 3-1/2 suits to about 240 or 60 per suit... not bad though more than I expected. Then again I had no idea what tailoring would cost going in and most likely low balled my guesses, did not realize how much sleeve alterations cost.


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## Broadus (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks to the heads up from this thread about Jack Victor suits at Men's Wearhouse, my wife and I stopped at the Augusta, Georgia, store while driving down to southeast Georgia to visit family. I had bought three JAB Signature Gold suits and had decided to keep them, though I kept waffling, not completely satisfied with the fit.

At any rate, I found a Jack Victor charcoal grey suit and a black suit with narrow blue pinstripes (I wasn't interested in a black suit, but the stripes give it a navy hue), both listed at $699.99 with the BOGO free sale. I tried them on and loved the fit. Whereas the JAB SG's are about an inch longer (both JV and JAB suits in 40R), and my wife was going to shorten the length as well as the sleeves (much more work than I wanted her to have to do), the length of the Jack Victor coats is perfect, as well as the sleeves. I've never bought a coat that the sleeves didn't have to be altered, so that's a nice bonus.

Plus, the JV coats fit me much better in the shoulders, whereas the JAB SG coats were a little wider in the shoulders, hanging off the shoulders. I have to say that I'm really pleased with the fit and quality of the Jack Victor suits.

So thanks to the OP for starting this thread. I have finally found a line of suits that are moderately priced that I really like.


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## Theoden (Dec 16, 2009)

ryall12 said:


> Another thanks Barbaron, very helpful there and great to know. I agree, with some looking and the right person helping you there are definitely some good values to be had there.
> 
> I liked the JB and it fit me nicely. Can not speak to construction, will take your word, but yes it was soft. I also believe it was fully canvassed. I was told the move to China made this possible as lower costs allows for this more expensive feature yet kept prices in line. I felt the full canvas before asking. Again I am no expert but if you have 1 in store check it out. Would much prefer that one at 699 though.
> So if I read that right its better to buy during the BOGO 100 than the BOGO free? Maybe I will check the JB again then, really want to see the brown stripe in person.
> ...


Ryall,

Hickey Freeman Madison sytle mainline suits are _fully_ canvassed. You got a great deal. And they are very well-made. Jack Victor, Brooks Brothers 1818, HSM Gold Trumpeter are all half-canvassed.

By the way, the buy 1 get 1 free at MW is also a great deal. They carry Hickey Freeman sportcoats. They'll order them for you, even if they don't have them in stock.

There's a Hickey Freeman Outlet store in Woodbury Commons, NY. (upstate, about 90 min north of NYC). Call them. They will tell you what they have in your size. Ask for Lili, she's great. Tell her you want a fully canvassed model not the Hickey Freeman Ltd. They are ALWAYS 50% off retail. And...they often have 25%-50% sales of the discounted prices.

--Theoden


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## Theoden (Dec 16, 2009)

TheBarbaron said:


> Hello, forum-goers. Long time lurker, occasional poster.
> 
> I'm a wardrobe consultant working for TMW, so I came to offer information about the lines carried, candidly.
> 
> ...


TheBarbaron, I sent you a private message.


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## ryall12 (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks Theoden, thats great to know. If they have a 50-50 deal that should be about what I paid. Its a bit of a drive but if they have a good price on a suit I want it would be worth it, better than driving to Syms, 5th, Rack etc. a few times without finding anything.

I did not see much HF at any of the MW I visited but its hit or miss, will ask about ordering next time. Though the ones I did see were mainly Hickey line and were still priced at 1k or so meaning even at BOGO its at least 500 a suit for the lower line.


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## Theoden (Dec 16, 2009)

Ryall,

Yes...I'm not sure if any one individual MW store has much control over what types they can get.

You can always make a day of it at Woodbury Commons. If you know your size and model in Hickey Freeman just call the outlet and ask what they have. Then drive up. Once you snag your suit, you can drive to Cold Spring (on the Hudson) and have lunch. It's a lovely town. Nice antiquing and restaurants.


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