# Academic Trad



## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

As one of the self-proclaimed keepers of the academic trad flame, I would like to summarize my sartorial rules for suggestion and revision. This is based on my experience and my particular profession, of course and I am writing it to clarify my own thoughts on the subject. Feedback welcome, encouraged, and don't spare my feelings. I know I have some fellow academics out there.

No suits except when meeting with politicians or businessmen.

From toe to head:

Shoes: Brown or burgundy, leather sole, plain (usually no tassels), classic, unobtrusive design

Socks: Argyle or colored (not necessarily matched to the trouser), merino wool

Trouser: flat front, 70/30 cuffed to uncuffed ratio, selecting fabric based on weather mixing heavy and lighter twill (80% of wardrobe), wool (15%), gabardine (4%), linen (1%)

Belt: Plain brown leather with brushed silver

Watch: Seiko, leather band automatic in the winter, titanium chonograph in the warmer months

Shirt: For lecturing--70/30 OCBD to pinpoint; For writing or reading--red or blue check BD (no tie)

Sweater (cardigan, crew or v-neck) or sweater vest: Blue, brown, green, or argyle in cashmere, wool, or cotton

Tie: Rep stripe (95%), muted traditonal patterns (5%)

Jacket (all 3/2 sack, of course): 5 tweed, 1 wool (still looking for the right navy blazer), 1 corduroy

Accessories: leather attache case without any labels, full-size (not compact) umbrella (when needed) with plain raincoat or wool duffle, scarf, old-fashion thermos

No pocket square
Scuffed shoes ok
Imperfect knot in tie ok

Any additions, subtractions, revisions?


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I can never endorse no pocket square or scuffed shoes.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

*Nice topic*

Fraying of shirt collar and cuffs and wrinkles ok - almost required. Shirts should not be sent out - too expensive. An old fashioned thermos (remember the plaid ones with real cork?) to carry one's own coffee or tea.
Cheers


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

I forgot the thermos! In fact I do rock the old fashion thermos.


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

*Academic Administrator*

As a 30+ year mid-level academic administrator, I identify with many of the same issues you raise. I do lean, as you indicate, more towards cords, khaki, ocbd, good leather (Alden) LHS and tassle shoes, tweed jackets, blazers with silk rep stripe or wool (in winter) ties. I also rely heavily on an old BB trench coat, a Gloverall duffel, and a Barbour Border depending on the temp and precip. On the rare occasion when I wear a "real" suit, it is usually navy or gray stripe. On todays campus it is not common for dept. chairpersons to wear ties on a daily basis, so maintaining a kinship and credibility at the dean/chair level calls for walking a fine line between proper dress and appropriate casualness. I just returned from a two day meeting in Chapel Hill at our General Admin, where the mix was about 50/50 between suits and blazers/tweeds. I do find that I always look at my daily schedule before dressing for the day. Don't think that I own a pocket square.
Good day.
Tom


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

I only own two suits: plain navy and plain brown. The brown suit is a sack. I wear each one perhaps once a year.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Knit ties?


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

Wool and silk knit ties - square ended, solid colors
Camelhair/colored sportcoat
Corduroy trousers, on Fridays
Casual suits - tweed, etc. 3 piece optional, suspenders even better.
Horn rimmed glasses
Tweed overcoat

Absolutely never, under any conditions - teva sandals, polo shirts, jeans, white socks, or sneakers.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

I have two Press wool ties. I wear corduroy trousers on non-lecture days (wearing them today, in fact).


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## TyskJohan (Dec 3, 2006)

HistoryDoc said:


> Trouser: flat front, 70/30 cuffed to uncuffed ratio, selecting fabric based on weather mixing heavy and lighter twill (80% of wardrobe), wool (15%), gabardine (4%), linen (1%)


You have 100 pairs of trousers, whereof 1 is linen? Impressive.

SCNR


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## GMC (Nov 8, 2006)

*I'm endorsing no squares and scuffed shoes ...*



AlanC said:


> I can never endorse no pocket square or scuffed shoes.


... by which I do NOT mean I am knocking the moderator. :icon_smile:

I shine my shoes, especially before wearing the first time, thus guaranteeing they don't get too scuffed. And I do own and wear pocket squares for very businessy/dressy occasions.

But everytime I see what I call the Nonchalance Look -- a beat-up old pair of Weejuns with a tie, for example -- I think: That just seems and looks so much better. OK, I can't dress that way for business, but I like the NL. I especially am OK with ditching the pocket square, which, although I am quite handy with, I almost never go to these days. It seems sort of foppish to me. Thing I like about Trad is the simplicity. I put in a three-point pressed cotton/linen hank or puff fold a bit of silk, and it looks good ... but it also looks like I'm really trying, and it breaks up the clean lines of suit/tie. The secret to the whole shoes/hank thing has got to be that you can't be managing it. It's Nonchalance, not Studied Nonchalance.

All of this really by way of saying: I think your wardrobe sounds aces, History Doc. Just great.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

Thanks. I don't scuff my shoes on purpose, I just don't polish them often. I think that it is very easy to overdo the "not trying too hard" look so I choose my battles. I don't want to obsess over the knot in my tie or add shoe polishing to my routine. 
Re: number of trousers. I was giving ratios and percentages, not raw numbers. I apologize if that was not clear. I have about 25 pairs of trousers.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

I certainly don't ever wear suits to school but I often wear a jacket and tie. In this way, I'm the exception rather than the rule as most of my middle school colleagues don't dress well at all (school administration included). I guess I agree with the list overall. Lists are nice, but I just try and dress as well as possible in what I'm comfortable with. This generally turns out to be Trad (because I'm in the "replacement" process with some of my items)...

TT


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

HistoryDoc said:


> Re: number of trousers. I was giving ratios and percentages, not raw numbers. I apologize if that was not clear. I have about 25 pairs of trousers.


My math is really bad, but doesn't this translate to something like one linen pants-leg?


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## Tom72 (May 8, 2006)

What about Expert Witness attire for the courtroom?

Yours,


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

egadfly said:


> My math is really bad, but doesn't this translate to something like one linen pants-leg?


Yes, that is it of course. I have one linen pant leg and I wear it on my arm. Very trad.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

egadfly said:


> My math is really bad, but doesn't this translate to something like one linen pants-leg?


I believe he means that for every 100 days that he wears pants, he wears linen pants once. Similar to the poster who wears OCBD shirts 99.9% of the time, I believe both posters are talking frequency not quantity.


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

HistoryDoc said:


> Yes, that is it of course. I have one linen pant leg and I wear it on my arm. Very trad.


But only after Memorial Day, I hope. Linen pant-leg armbands worn in winter are _tres déclassé_.

Cheers,

EGF


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

*Agree*



abc123 said:


> Wool and silk knit ties - square ended, solid colors
> Camelhair/colored sportcoat
> Corduroy trousers, on Fridays
> Casual suits - tweed, etc. 3 piece optional, suspenders even better.
> ...


I agree with these additions.


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## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

Actually, I thought it was more accurate and contemporary with your initial post. These later additions bring it very close to costume.


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## JamesT (Oct 12, 2006)

What about bowties?


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Though I am a Wall Streeter, most of my tradrobe resembles just this, heavy on the sportcoat, light on the suit, must be the trickle down effect of dress down policies on the Street. 

Therefore, I am able then to revert to my likes and preferences, which slake back to the school look of khakis & cords, tweed 3/2s, schoolboy mufflers, &c. and in the summer, madras, hopsack, & linen...


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

*Bowties*



JamesT said:


> What about bowties?


Bowties are for after you have tenure.


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## JamesT (Oct 12, 2006)

HistoryDoc said:


> Bowties are for after you have tenure.


Haha. Apparently, so is the collection of shows taped from the histroy channel - at least in the case of many of my past teachers.


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## cummerbund (Aug 29, 2005)

As a non-tenured faculty member, I wear bowties occasionally. (But then, I don't wear ties that regularly, either.) I think it depends on the university and whether one can carry it off well. Pediatricians and psychiatrists tend to wear the bulk of bowties in medical schools (in that order of frequency, in my experience).

But the rest of the discussion is spot on - tweed sportcoats/blazer, khakis in various weights, an occasional flannel/cord, sweater vests and cardigans, OCBDs and tattersalls, repp ties with the occasional foulard, glasses... No suits if one can avoid it.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Joe College does lose something when he graduates and goes to work for the man, doesn't he? Does the academic setting allow for the purest manifestation of trad?--seems that it should.


* More so the educator than student body.


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## Tradical (Dec 17, 2006)

*The Lecture Dilemma*

I recognize your arsenal, Doc, though yours is of a consistently higher caliber than mine. But I've encountered two problems:

1) I teach in a very casual department, where ties are rarely seen. As I attempt to turn my current post into something more tenure-ific, I sometimes feel as I have to apologize for a tweed and vest. That, or risk accusations of affectation. Anyone else have colleague nervousness?

2) For me, anyway, teaching is hot work. I certainly don't go all Robin Williams (no jumping on desks or the like), but I've started doffing my tweeds before I even take roll. Knowing this, should one simply enter the class sans jacket, or does a trad to tough it out and perhaps purchase absorbent pocket squares?

p.s. I've got Latin and German, but inexplicably feel that I shouldn't rock a bow tie until I've got Greek, which will likely be never. Also won't wear patches on elbows of jackets until I've earned them, though perhaps I'm foolishly ignoring their prophylactic qualities.​


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Wait much longer on wearing a bow and you'll find life passed you by. _Carpe diem_, Robin.--Folks will get over it soon enough. I think you're in an enviable position to wear the full on trad, ties included--even bows.

Be _that_ man. You know, the one with the bow ties and suede elbow patches on his tweeds. Instant respectablity. Ah, I'm just dreaming again--whatever makes you happy.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

Tradical said:


> I recognize your arsenal, Doc, though yours is of a consistently higher caliber than mine. But I've encountered two problems:
> 
> 1) I teach in a very casual department, where ties are rarely seen. As I attempt to turn my current post into something more tenure-ific, I sometimes feel as I have to apologize for a tweed and vest. That, or risk accusations of affectation. Anyone else have colleague nervousness?
> 
> ...


I have the same problem about the how work of teaching; I remove my tweed when I feel like it, mid-flow. Get a bow! Although I have to confess I waited until I started on the Nichomachean Ethics in the original until I started using mine... I'm a philosopher, so Aristotle in Greek is pretty standard, in case anyone thinks I'm veering towards pretension... and my translations were atrocious! And I'm lucky, in that I have well-dressed colleagues.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

The last few semesters I've been making a ritual of showing up at final exams in over-the-top preppy casual wear. White OCBD & Nantucket Reds w/boat shoes or pink OCBD & Green GTH khakis w/ dirty bucks was last semester. Nothing so irritates the students in their time of stress as to have the prof show up dressed for Saturday afternoon G&Ts. :icon_smile_big:


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

A.Squire said:


> Wait much longer on wearing a bow and you'll find life passed you by. _Carpe diem_, Robin.--Folks will get over it soon enough. I think you're in an enviable position to wear the full on trad, ties included--even bows.
> 
> Be _that_ man. You know, the one with the bow ties and suede elbow patches on his tweeds. Instant respectablity. Ah, I'm just dreaming again--whatever makes you happy.


This is how I feel. Because of what I wear to school, I constantly get the "Hey, you look like a college professor" or "Boy, you really are an English teacher, aren't you?" Well, yes, I am, but not because I think that this is what I *should *wear. People I work with, students and the like don't see me as some fuddy-duddy. Of course, only being 29 helps this. But, like you say, folks will get over it soon enough. If you can't embrace it then why wear it. I'm not trying to dress in a costume; this is who I am and what I'm comfortable in...

TT


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

The other reasons why I don't wear a bowtie (yet) include. A) I need to drop 20 lbs. and a regular tie looks better on me B) I don't already own one and my wife is really on my case about my spending on clothes right now C) I have to hide my political leanings at work and looking like George Will might give me up


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## Isaac Mickle (Nov 28, 2006)

Suits are fine and appropriate if you want to wear them in the classroom.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

> Suits are fine and appropriate if you want to wear them in the classroom.


I think sack suits work in the class room in a way that American Boardroom or Italian-style suits do not. They just seem more sporty and academic. Of course, in MBA classes, professors are expected to wear business suits. Some people can even pull off more fashion forward sort of stuff in the Letters,Arts, & Sciences, though, I am certain I could not.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> The last few semesters I've been making a ritual of showing up at final exams in over-the-top preppy casual wear. White OCBD & Nantucket Reds w/boat shoes or pink OCBD & Green GTH khakis w/ dirty bucks was last semester. Nothing so irritates the students in their time of stress as to have the prof show up dressed for Saturday afternoon G&Ts. :icon_smile_big:


Alden, this is great! Especially in the spring semester, it says "I'm so done with you snot-nosed punks, all I want to be doing is sailing."

Even better is if you proctored your exams drinking club soda and lime in a tumbler. Really send em for a loop.

JB


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## Tradical (Dec 17, 2006)

jstaylor said:


> Get a bow! Although I have to confess I waited until I started on the Nichomachean Ethics in the original until I started using mine...


See, I _knew _I wasn't just being crazy with my "no bow 'til Greek" motto...

Actually, part of my hesitation comes from the fact that I'm 6'6" / 195. At some point I was warned against the bow, as it supposedly would make me look (even more) freakishly elongated. Whether or not I follow it, is there a conventional wisdom here (cf. how people who are 5'1" / 200 might be steered clear of items double-breasted)?

As for being politically identifiable, Doc, as long as your arguments are historically valid, factually sound, and logically coherent, nobody will mistake you for George Will! :teacha:


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## Tradical (Dec 17, 2006)

A.Squire said:


> Wait much longer on wearing a bow and you'll find life passed you by. _Carpe diem_, Robin.--Folks will get over it soon enough. I think you're in an enviable position to wear the full on trad, ties included--even bows.
> 
> Be _that_ man. You know, the one with the bow ties and suede elbow patches on his tweeds. Instant respectablity. Ah, I'm just dreaming again--whatever makes you happy.


Taken literally, this is great fashion advice. Taken figuratively, this is simply great advice.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

Tradical said:


> Actually, part of my hesitation comes from the fact that I'm 6'6" / 195. At some point I was warned against the bow, as it supposedly would make me look (even more) freakishly elongated. Whether or not I follow it, is there a conventional wisdom here (cf. how people who are 5'1" / 200 might be steered clear of items double-breasted)?


I have a friend who's about 6'7", and maybe 180lbs. He always wears a bow, and it looks fine on him! I think it might be more about whether you feel comfortable in it than anything else.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

AldenPyle said:


> The last few semesters I've been making a ritual of showing up at final exams in over-the-top preppy casual wear. White OCBD & Nantucket Reds w/boat shoes or pink OCBD & Green GTH khakis w/ dirty bucks was last semester. Nothing so irritates the students in their time of stress as to have the prof show up dressed for Saturday afternoon G&Ts. :icon_smile_big:


Lovely! I make a point of wearing really battered tweeds, a brightly-coloured bowtie, and reading a comic novel!


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## MichaelB (Dec 17, 2004)

I teach at a New England boarding school, and the students here still have a jacket-and-tie dress code, which means that the faculty does, too. Most of the other NE prep schools have relaxed their dress code to khakis and a polo shirt, except for formal meals and like events. Still, when I am with my colleagues at gatherings such as TABS (annual conference for The Association of Boarding Schools), most men are still "in uniform:" khakis or flannels, tweed jackets or navy blazers, BD's and ties (quite a few bow ties, even). You see suits, but mostly on Headmasters or Directors of Development (fundraisers, both). Sure, some folks wear jeans or other casual clothes, but they stand out a little bit--sort of like the defiant gray ponytail on the aging "non-conformist." 

I was a college professor for many years, and far fewer of my fellow profs dressed up. Partly it was the region (I taught in the Northwest then), but mostly it was the ethos. The professoriate had a much stronger 1960's academic counterculture connection, whereas many boarding school teachers, though politically liberal too, still feel connected to that "good manners and character formation" tradition. Also, a lot of boarding school teachers come from the prep-school culture themselves, so the dress code mindset is built-in. I have a picture of myself in kindergarten, wearing a crested blue blazer, white BD and repp tie. High-school photo: tweed jacket, white BD, repp tie. College, ditto. I've literally been in "school dress" my whole life. I could no more teach in jeans and Teva sandals than in a bathing suit with no shirt. It's just too ingrained.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

HistoryDoc said:


> The other reasons why I don't wear a bowtie (yet) include. A) I need to drop 20 lbs. and a regular tie looks better on me B) I don't already own one and my wife is really on my case about my spending on clothes right now C) I have to hide my political leanings at work and looking like George Will might give me up


Interesting observation about the connection between certain (conservative) political views and an intentional decision to go with the Trad look. While it's true that a lot of guys at my alma mater weren't consistently or technically Trad (yes, pleats and darts were seen), they usually wore a day-to-day uniform of khakis, OCBDs, and loafers, which, like it or not, made them look very, to quote, "Republican." A fair characterization? Maybe folks in other parts of the parts of the country don't entertain such an affiliation--I've learned as much since "heading North" and/or "becoming" a Yankee (is that possible? How long must one toil above the Mason Dixon for the transfiguration to take place? Speas, what say ye? Hillary made it work!) a few years ago.

Trad clothing may have once simply been the look to which "every man" turned back in the 50s and early 60s. Fine. A debate resolved. So be it. A granted and, by now, not entirely original point. How many options were there back then? But nowadays, when there are plenty of other acceptable options, does the look not require a bit of effort and intentionality? I would guess yes. Particularly on a campuses "up here" with which I've become familiar. If yes, then I wouldn't be surprised if it represents or reveals (for many; not all) a rather traditional or even conservative mindset. One of this forum's more outspoken "progressives" spoke highly of certain traditions that some might even deem as reactionary. Something about uniforms for public schools, best I recall. I won't quote or cite the post #, but they're back there.

Here in America, does a preference for the Trad style suggest some sort of "conservatism"--cultural? Political?--evident in the person's character or tastes? I would venture a guess of "Yes." Hence HistoryDoc's astute observation that going Trad results in "looking like George Will." This is not to say that leftists aren't willing or eager to sport Trad. (After all, John Kenneth Galbraith looked as a-okay in a sack suit as William F. Buckley Jr.). It is to suggest that, in doing so, they might be aware that they're presenting themselves to the public as (at least aesthetically) conservative. Maybe they're having fun with the irony, which may be apparent only to them. The punk-rockin' leftist who nonetheless appreciates Brooks bespoke: an amusing paradox.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

> I was a college professor for many years, and far fewer of my fellow profs dressed up. Partly it was the region (I taught in the Northwest then), but mostly it was the ethos. The professoriate had a much stronger 1960's academic counterculture connection, whereas many boarding school teachers, though politically liberal too, still feel connected to that "good manners and character formation" tradition.


This is an interesting point, but my own perspective is that it might exaggerate the _current _impact of 1960's counter-culture fashion on academic dressing. My own guess would be that about 20% of professors wear pure nerd-wear (i.e. the cheapest possible stuff that they can put on to cover themselves), about 70% wear some variation of business-casual (which covers polo/pleated dockers all the way to tweeds, ties, and buttondowns) or in the case of the business school, business dress, and about 10% at most wear self-conscious bohemian clothes.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

> Here in America, does a preference for the Trad style suggest some sort of "conservatism"--cultural? Political?--evident in the person's character or tastes?


Must be almost certainly yes, on the margin. For young people, either trad is passed on by conservative social institutions like fraternities, country clubs, etc. or people are consciously referencing some cultural precedent. which seems much more likely to be WFB than RFK.

Still, much secondary to other predictors like, race, gender, profession, education, marital and family status, and church attendance. A college professor in a sack suit is more likely to be a liberal than an insurance executive in Hart-marx.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> Must be almost certainly yes, on the margin. For young people, either trad is passed on by conservative social institutions like fraternities, country clubs, etc. or people are consciously referencing some cultural precedent. which seems much more likely to be WFB than RFK."--AldenPyle
> 
> True. "Consciously referencing some cultural precedent." Yeah, that's it. An appreciation for a certain tradition and what it represents for a particular person or group. If, in the form of "Ivy League," it was once the style that every young (American) gent embraced just because, well, just because...then it's equally true that it's no longer a style that "every man" needs, wants, or accepts.
> 
> On a campus (not too far from here) where jeans, _Death Cab for Cutie_ t-shirts, and New Balance sneakers are frequently seen, the khakis-OCBD-Weejun combo seems positively Alex P. Keatonesque. In a word, "Republican." Because the rarity and cultural affiliations, even reactionary. At the very least, conservative. The sort of kit you'd imagine every member of The Dartmouth Review staff appreciates.


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## AsherNM (Apr 3, 2006)

I can't quite see how one can honestly defend an aesthetic taste if a relativistic stance towards 'culture' is adopted, other than to say it is an arbitrary habit, or a vestige of one's background; I like vanilla, you like chocolate. If one grants that, well, evangelizing or defending it doesn't quite make sense. But people don't necessarily act according to the contours of their ideology. Of course, in this specific instance, trad is a tradition to some, and a taste to others. The prevailing opinion on these boards seems to be that the choice between Savile Row and New Haven is one of personal tastes, but that between, say, khakis and sweatpants is one of aesthetics, if not propriety as well. 

Political conservatives probably have a greater penchant for observing and transmitting tradition. But, per my limited dabbling in conservative campus journalism, I've found conservative students mostly indistinguishable from the average American student. The "heirs" of trad probably far outnumber the converts, to whom I belong. Popular fancies (aka 'pop culture') help little in this regard.

I've been called a "Gay Republican" by a friend for wearing (pink) OCBDs and khakis. (Ironically, you might get a slap on the wrist from the University for saying 'gay' in that manner, if they ever overheard you.)


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Tradical said:


> I recognize your arsenal, Doc, though yours is of a consistently higher caliber than mine. But I've encountered two problems:
> 
> 1
> 2) For me, anyway, teaching is hot work. I certainly don't go all Robin Williams (no jumping on desks or the like), but I've started doffing my tweeds before I even take roll. Knowing this, should one simply enter the class sans jacket, or does a trad to tough it out and perhaps purchase absorbent pocket squares?
> ...


 To Tradical's point about teaching (or any other endeavor in a climate-controlled environment) being hot work, a question I've asked before but to which I've never gotten a solid answer.

Every year Brooks, J. Press, Lands' End, Hickey Freeman and others bring out spring/summer jackets in blends of silk/linen/wool. A catalog I got from Lands' End this weekend, along with the mailing from Hickey, shows them again this year, and they're always in pretty traditional patterns including herringbone, houndstooth and either glen or POW plaids. I've seen the fabrics up close and they have a fair amount of texture, much like the tweeds we love for fall/winter. Only hangup is they're always in the lighter colors. Does anyone make these in darker shades like navy, charcoal, etc. that would lend themselves to wear in colder weather? I find myself not wearing the tweed jackets simply because I can't stand the heat inside.


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## Tradical (Dec 17, 2006)

AsherNM said:


> I've found conservative students mostly indistinguishable from the average American student. [...]I've been called a "Gay Republican" by a friend for wearing (pink) OCBDs and khakis.


First, one would want to avoid taking "conservative" and "Republican" as synonyms (this obviously isn't the place, but swing by Uris library for any issue of _The American Conservative_ from the past six years: like it or not, there's not much "trad" conservative left in the GOP). Read Buckley's dignified eulogy for Schlesinger (), cf. the popularity of demented harpies like Ann Coulter, and cry "o tempora, o mores" into your pocket square.

Second, if you're concerned about such matters, assure your friend that you don't wear a pink OCBD because of sexual orientation. You wear it because you like it and it earns you praise in the exclusively male internet forum you frequent, where men chat about clothes, send each other photos of themselves and their outfits, and occasionally meet for drinks and shopping.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

My tradition is to wear GTH pants for final exams as a passive/aggressive way of taunting the students in revenge for them causing me so much trouble. Today, I wore 
Navy Southwick Sack Blazer w/ Peach Silk Pocket^2
Forest Green LE Hyde Park OCBD
Khaki Uniqlo Crew Socks
AE Cole Penny Loafers in Merlot 
along with Bills (M2P) Kalamkari pants that I got from EBAY and were brought to my attention by Untilted. Thanks Untilted, and I apologize again for the pleats!
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=66323&highlight=Bills+Crazy

Here is a picture of me after the test. Can you tell by my posture that I don't have any teaching or other job-related appointements until September! (Sorry again, not a great camera or photographer). 








Here is a close up to show how the loafers look along with the subtle blue of the paisley


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

Damn, these look nice on you.

So you have a 30 waist too? If you are thinking about throwing away some trousers, send them my way!!


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## Tradical (Dec 17, 2006)

I admire your intimidation / revenge tactics, Prof. Pyle. Have your outfits had any measurable effect on your students' final-exam performance?


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Untilted - 31 in Bills is actually the best for me. These are comfortable enough new, but I guess if they shrink at all in the wash I will have to have my guy let them out an inch. They are also substantially lighter in weight than the poplin, so I am not sure how many times they can be laundered before falling apart.

It is also something of a mystery. How come the trimmer waist sizes seem to sell out last on STP, but there are never any 30 or 31W Bills on Ebay.



> Tradical I admire your intimidation / revenge tactics, Prof. Pyle. Have your outfits had any measurable effect on your students' final-exam performance?


 In truth, sadly, no. Chinese students are an extremely tough nut to crack, since making it to a competitive university in China means excelling at a series of extremely high stakes tests starting at about age 5. If I can get a few sidelong glances, I need to be satisfied with that.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> Untilted - 31 in Bills is actually the best for me. These are comfortable enough new, but I guess if they shrink at all in the wash I will have to have my guy let them out an inch. They are also substantially lighter in weight than the poplin, so I am not sure how many times they can be laundered before falling apart.
> 
> It is also something of a mystery. How come the trimmer waist sizes seem to sell out last on STP, but there are never any 30 or 31W Bills on Ebay.
> 
> In truth, sadly, no. Chinese students are an extremely tough nut to crack, since making it to a competitive university in China means excelling at a series of extremely high stakes tests starting at about age 5. If I can get a few sidelong glances, I need to be satisfied with that.


Having lived in China for 15 years, I certainly agree with that.

You teach in Hong Kong I presume? Heard it's a city for fashionistas.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Sir AldenPyle: It must become exponentially more difficult for your students to complete finale exams, subsequent to gouging out their eyes as a result of having to look at those pants. (wink!)


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

In honor of my 1000th post I thought I'd bump the thread where I described my style a few years ago:


HistoryDoc said:


> As one of the self-proclaimed keepers of the academic trad flame, I would like to summarize my sartorial rules for suggestion and revision. This is based on my experience and my particular profession, of course and I am writing it to clarify my own thoughts on the subject. Feedback welcome, encouraged, and don't spare my feelings. I know I have some fellow academics out there.
> No suits except when meeting with politicians or businessmen.
> From toe to head:
> Shoes: Brown or burgundy, leather sole, plain (usually no tassels), classic, unobtrusive design
> ...


My shoe collection is larger but it has stayed close to those guidelines. I still have one pair of Campers and my hiking shoes and boots but otherwise pretty conservative (AE and Alden, all bluchers except for my rarely-worn Park Avenues). Thanks to Mac's input I have begun transitioning to OTC argyles. Since moving away from the south I don't wear linen as much. The belt is the same. I have more added Seiko 5 watches (green, tan, navy). I am now 100% OCBD in blue, white, and check. Sweaters are the same. Ties are the same. Jackets are the same but I did find a good blazer a few years ago and have added another half dozen tweeds. Accessories are the same. I still don't use a pocket square but I do carry a handkerchief. And I was properly shamed into keeping my shoes polished--thank you Mac and Alan C. The advice has been good along the way. I haven't regretted many purchases in the last few years.

I joined this forum as an unmarried grad student. I eventually changed my name to HistoryDoc a year and a half after graduation. Now I have the tenured job, a wife, a home, and a little HD taking his afternoon nap. This forum helped me tremendously when I was starting my career. Many thanks to all my friends on this forum who have been so kind to me over the years. Thank you to Mac, Alan C., Patrick, (especially you three) egadfly, spinlps, tradical, vwguy, Joe Beamish, and Joe Tradly. I could list another two dozen (where are you Brownshoe and A. Squire?) but best not to name too many for fear of leaving names off the list. Thanks to all of you new members for keeping the forum going. I know I have gotten lazy (or too busy) to post on the footwear or outfit of the day, but I appreciate those of you who still do.
Thanks again,
HD

I should mention my casual/weekend clothes. Friday/Saturday/Sunday I wear:
Old OCBD shirt or madras plaid shirt, sometimes Pendleton shirts. I think we wear more Pendleton out west.
Flat front khaki shorts
Ribbon belt
Topsiders (and now my new Bean Blucher mocs)


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Very nice overview, HistoryDoc, and congrats on 1,000 posts!


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Congratulations, Doc: yours is always an interesting voice. And on gaining tenure too: do you post more, or less since that happened?


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

My congratulations to an excellent contributor!


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

The Rambler said:


> Congratulations, Doc: yours is always an interesting voice. And on gaining tenure too: do you post more, or less since that happened?


I don't know. In general, job changes led to posting less. Now that I have the job I am going to keep, I assume my output in all things will be more steady. Having a child certainly put me out of commission for three or four months. I did notice that it took me quite a while to hit 1000 posts. My join date with this ID was in late '06. I suppose I am slow and steady in all things.


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the update, and for starting this thread.

Just curious how your colleagues and students have responded to your style of dress over the years. The wardrobe you describe is classically academic, yet increasingly uncommon on the college/university campus.


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## Cajunking (Apr 30, 2010)

Don't forget the tattered academic gown..! :icon_smile_wink:

And I only just now realized what an old thread this is, congratulations on everything, HistoryDoc!


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

nephew,
congratulations on the important things in life


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Congratulations, HD! It's good to have you still around. Post more often.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

TDI GUY said:


> Thanks for the update, and for starting this thread.
> 
> Just curious how your colleagues and students have responded to your style of dress over the years. The wardrobe you describe is classically academic, yet increasingly uncommon on the college/university campus.


Now that I think of it, I am the only instructor who still wears a tie. Administrators wear suits. So I suppose I am alone. I am probably the only one at the college to wear leather soled shoes; strange to think about it in those terms.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

Cajunking said:


> Don't forget the tattered academic gown..! :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> And I only just now realized what an old thread this is, congratulations on everything, HistoryDoc!


I have the velvet puffy hat and everything.

Uncle and Alan C.,
Thanks again.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

HistoryDoc: Knowing you only through the air of compassion and quiet wisdom incorporated throughout your postings, I am one (of oh so many) who has benefited greatly from your participation herein and can only assume the young men and women who experience knowing you in the classroom are left much wiser for the experience. Congrats on your 1000th post!
.....Chuck


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

Congrats on your thousandth post and tenure, HistoryDoc! As an academic myself, I can attest to the utter casualness with which most professors teach. On my campus, only a handful of folks wear ties.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Job well done, sir.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Impressive and inspirational! This thread gets my vote for best thread revival of the year so far!


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## Xerxes (May 3, 2010)

*Blue collar academic trad hybrid ...*

Over the course of studying (printmaking) in sunny Southern California, I realized that I had always loved the reedy academic look while doing a lot of historical research in early 20th century print shops. For the the most part on campus everyone wore jeans/khakis and t-shirts with either designer names or annoying one-liners. I generally wore the same thing (khakis/plain shirt) but always with a cheap sportcoat. It was always this assumption that since I was doing something somewhat messy (manual labor, ink...) that I had to look like a street urchin. But looking at all the pictures of the past printers with vests, collared shirts (real blue collar!) working heavy machinery... I had this epiphany that one could still look dignified even in a "lowly trade." I slowly adopted this style with designated "work OCBD's", vests and mostly brown and black coats (which don't look stained) of light material. The titular character in the movie "Barton Fink" was a huge influence.

With this image change in full swing I was in a workshop of about 30 ... with a professor ... and this security guy comes in un-announced, scans the room, looks right at me and says "Are you the professor?" This elicited much amusement! But it also made me realize that the traditional colors and garments are still symbols that resonate.

I now run my own "circa 1920" letterpress shop and I teach letterpress as well, and for the most part I am still going strong with this look, + apron. And maybe the addition of a stylish green eyeshade, of course :icon_smile_wink:

Sometimes I think I am verging on banal historical reenactment, but when I deal with clients in my shop, the synergy between the machinery and me is a selling point ... let's just say the kind of people that want letterpress calling cards tend to share the same affliction!  (Also, as a rule, I do not wear ties when operating heavy machinery ... hmm maybe a practical excuse to start wearing bowties)


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

Congrats, History Doc. I've enjoyed your contribution over the years.

I suppose my biggest evolution is the incorporation of more suits into my lecturing wardrobe. I've been inspired by some of the old "Trad Men" pics, esp. the one where the lecturer is practically reclining (feet on desk!) while wearing what looks to me like a flannel suit.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

P Hudson said:


> Congrats, History Doc. I've enjoyed your contribution over the years.
> 
> I suppose my biggest evolution is the incorporation of more suits into my lecturing wardrobe. I've been inspired by some of the old "Trad Men" pics, esp. the one where the lecturer is practically reclining (feet on desk!) while wearing what looks to me like a flannel suit.


I congratulate you men for taking your mission as educators seriously. Dressing well for class expresses a sense of the seriousness of your subject, and the occasion.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> I congratulate you men for taking your mission as educators seriously. Dressing well for class expresses a sense of the seriousness of your subject, and the occasion.


Yes, Rambler. I am trying to convey something to my students of the importance of being a member of a team. In a world that says (and dresses accordingly), "I'm all about me and my own comfort", I want them to discover the value of serving others. The individual isn't lost in serving others (cf. JFK and that business about "doing for your country"). The individual is lost when people are all and only self-interested.

I'm also trying to establish points of contact with people of the past who just may have, in some cases, been better than us (or at least me). I find it ironic that I live in a city that goes to great lengths to "value it's heritage", but only in the sense of preserving old and often worthless buildings, but shows very little sense of heritage when it comes to more significant human interactions.

Have I strayed too far? If so, I apologise.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

mcarthur said:


> nephew,
> congratulations on the important things in life


Indeed. And thank you for all of the good advice you've given me along the way.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

P Hudson said:


> Congrats, History Doc. I've enjoyed your contribution over the years.
> 
> I suppose my biggest evolution is the incorporation of more suits into my lecturing wardrobe. I've been inspired by some of the old "Trad Men" pics, esp. the one where the lecturer is practically reclining (feet on desk!) while wearing what looks to me like a flannel suit.


I think I was going in that direction when I lived in Atlanta. Now that I am back on the west coast it is just a different aesthetic. Wearing a suit now would indicate that I am administration rather than faculty. Also, with a 9 month old the dry cleaning bill would get pretty hefty rather quickly if I were wearing suits every day.

Xerxes,
Thank you for your interesting contribution.
Rambler,
You hit the nail on the head. If students ask why I wear a coat and tie I tell them that it is out of respect for them.
Hudson,
You aren't straying at all; that is exactly the message I would like to send. Individualism and selfishness are not synonymous. Well put.

I don't know if any of you have bothered to look up my tag line, but it is the motto of one of my almae matres: "Religion, Learning, Civility; Above All, Virtue."


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

HistoryDoc said:


> No suits


Check.



HistoryDoc said:


> Shoes: Brown or burgundy


Check



HistoryDoc said:


> Socks: Argyle or colored


Check... and NEVER matched to the trousers.



HistoryDoc said:


> Trouser: flat front, 70/30 cuffed to uncuffed ratio, selecting fabric based on weather mixing heavy and lighter twill (80% of wardrobe), wool (15%), gabardine (4%), linen (1%)


Always flat fronted, never cuffed.



HistoryDoc said:


> Belt: Plain brown leather with brushed silver


Brown or black



HistoryDoc said:


> Watch: Seiko, leather band automatic in the winter, titanium chonograph in the warmer months


Too restrictive, as a collector I have many watches. And think that a gent has the watch as one of the few areas of expression, thus I wear what I want. however, my current favourite is a 1930s Officers watch on brown leather.



HistoryDoc said:


> Shirt: For lecturing--70/30 OCBD to pinpoint; For writing or reading--red or blue check BD (no tie)


Again too restrictive...but more often than not it is a checked ocbd.



HistoryDoc said:


> Sweater (cardigan, crew or v-neck) or sweater vest: Blue, brown, green, or argyle in cashmere, wool, or cotton


Jumpers, always plain, round neck and V neck, always cotton, various colours, never sleeveless.



HistoryDoc said:


> Tie: Rep stripe (95%), muted traditonal patterns (5%)


Always a regimental stripe, nothing else will do.



HistoryDoc said:


> Jacket (all 3/2 sack, of course): 5 tweed, 1 wool (still looking for the right navy blazer), 1 corduroy


Tweeds 2/2 and blue blazer 3/3 - side vents ...one must keep up the British appearance even when exiled in climes foreign.



HistoryDoc said:


> Accessories: leather attache case without any labels, full-size (not compact) umbrella (when needed) with plain raincoat or wool duffle, scarf, old-fashion thermos


Old plain, brown leather briefcase.
Umbrellas (see other thread from a few weeks ago) - spawn of the Devil! 
Barbours - short and long
Scarf -of course
Thermos - Good God man, never. I'm a tea drinker. Thermos tea tastes awful after only 5 minutes in one of the Godforsaken things



HistoryDoc said:


> No pocket square
> Scuffed shoes ok
> Imperfect knot in tie ok


check - for fops and dandies! 
check - my old slightly battered dark brown brogues agree
check - indeed, I'd take it further and say that a perfect knot is perfectly incorrect

Your academic look is very similar to a British academic look.
Good job sir!


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

My immediate predecessor in this thread is absolutely right in complimenting *HistoryDoc* and in saying that this look is very like a British academic look.
I quote *HistoryDoc'*s items that I wear myself, having deleted those I don't:


> No suits except when meeting with politicians or businessmen.
> From toe to head:
> Shoes: Brown, plain (usually no tassels), classic, unobtrusive design
> Socks: Argyle or colored, merino wool
> ...


I also like *abc123's* corduroy trousers and tweed overcoat.
I only wear 3-button jackets and have no hestitation in taking them off in warm conditions.
Llike *EofO*, my trousers have no turn-ups.
These sorts of clothing were my working dress for 36 years as a teacher. Most of that time was spent in a college, which in Britain is always less formal than a school for younger students. When I started work, all male staff wore jacket and tie, and the most senior ones suits; when I retired, I was the only male teacher (apart from the principal) who was wearing jacket and tie.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

*Academics in suits*

I hear what you guys are saying about suits, location and vocation, but since wearing a shirt is dressed up where I teach, and I'm so far out of the mainstream that I have given up caring, I'm going to claim this pic as my inspiration.

Furthermore, it proves that casual is a state of mind (and perhaps posture) rather than a sartorial commitment.

From the American Trad Men thread:


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

Great photo. Look at how the students are dressed, also.
Who knew I was a center vent away from dressing like an Englishman? The cut of my clothes would probably reveal my nationality though.


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## Bruce Wayne (Mar 10, 2008)




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