# 5 buttons on sleeve, why?



## Lino (Apr 15, 2006)

I saw suit jackets with 5 buttons on the sleeve at Paul Smith (non-functional) and again at Lord Willy's (functional) today. What is up with this? Is the idea that 5 buttons on the sleeve is more formal or shows better quality than 4?

Would you wear a jacket with 5 buttons on the sleeve?


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

Hmmm.... so that when you alter the sleeve the top or bottom one could be removed and then you'd have two spares?????


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

When I was flying Delta a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that one of the male flight attendants was wearing a Delta suit jacket that had 5 buttons on the sleeves. Other than the 5 buttons (which to me seem superfluous), and the fact that his sleeves were too long, and that he had all three jacket buttons buttoned, the suit looked pretty nice, especially considering that it is technically a uniform. I believe it was a blue pinstripe with side vents. 

On an unrelated note, the flight attendant did commence to have a conversation with a teenaged-looking passenger about his "sweet" (my quote, not his) Kenneth Cole squared-toed shoes and how he got them for like 50 bucks at an outlet store. I bit my tongue, but I digress...


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## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

5 button cuffs can look nice, but only on say a 6x2 or 6x3 DB coat, usually 4 button cuff (preferebly functional) looks better. It's all about proportion I'd say fornstance a 2 button cuff might suit a 2 button SB or a 3 button cuff might suit a sports coat.


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## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

It's all about personal preference to me I like 5 button simply because they are different but, that's me.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Some people feel more is better I guess.

This on a young upcoming politician to boot!

https://imageshack.us


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## WestOfPCH (Aug 17, 2006)

tripreed said:


> When I was flying Delta a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that one of the male flight attendants was wearing a Delta suit jacket that had 5 buttons on the sleeves. Other than the 5 buttons (which to me seem superfluous), and the fact that his sleeves were too long, and that he had all three jacket buttons buttoned, the suit looked pretty nice, especially considering that it is technically a uniform. I believe it was a blue pinstripe with side vents.
> 
> On an unrelated note, the flight attendant did commence to have a conversation with a teenaged-looking passenger about his "sweet" (my quote, not his) Kenneth Cole squared-toed shoes and how he got them for like 50 bucks at an outlet store. I bit my tongue, but I digress...


The new Delta uniforms for ground staff and flight attendants (men & women) were designed by Richard Tyler. Here's an article:

As a Delta frequent flyer, I can say that the uniforms do look really good (much better than the previous). Worth noting are the color codes for the ties, pocket squares, women's scarves, and trim: red for flight attendants, silver for gate staff, gold for Crown Room staff.

As always, regardless of how well the clothes are designed, some people know how to wear it and make sure it is fitted right, and some do not. At least when it happens, they look like guys in nice clothes who don't know how to wear them instead of guys wearing bad clothes.

That said, I have not seen anyone pull off the short sleeve, vest, and tie outfit anywear near as good as the guy does in the picture. He manages to make it look fashion forward; in real life, the gate agents who try to wear it look like 1960's aerospace engineers.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

I happen to have 5 buttons on an odd tweedy jacket from Next (don't laugh - it's 100% wool, nicely styled and cost me less than a good shoe-tree!).

I prefer 4 buttons but 5 doesn't really distract. Certainly less attention-grabbing than 2 buttons in my opinion.

I haven't flown Delta for years, but those uniforms are very stylish!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

zegnamtl said:


> Some people feel more is better I guess.
> 
> This on a young upcoming politician to boot!
> 
> https://imageshack.us


Rather begs the question. "how many is too many...can the practice be taken too far?" Looks a bit like "service stripes" on a uniform!


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Eagle2250 worte:
"how many is too many...can the practice be taken too far?"

~~~~

Where is manton with the rule book when you need him??

I would think 4 is the max.
with 5 maybe in some rare exceptions.

Manton?


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## Hard2Fit (May 11, 2005)

zegnamtl said:


> Some people feel more is better I guess.
> 
> This on a young upcoming politician to boot!
> 
> https://imageshack.us


That's scary. Reminds me of the Gilette razors insanity.


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

I've only seen 5 buttons on Gucci and have never been tempted to get one, but then again maybe someday.


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## Lino (Apr 15, 2006)

Hard2Fit said:


> That's scary. Reminds me of the Gilette razors insanity.


Reminds me of Spinal Tap, "You now how most suits only have 4 buttons on the sleeve, well, this one goes to 6!" Seems like one-ups-manship.

BTW, the dress shirts at Lord Willy's had three buttons on their cuffs, which leads me to think one-ups-manship may be the root of it. In the case of both Paul Smith and Lord Willy's, tongue-in-cheek one-ups-manship. In the case of Gucci, perhaps, more is better one-ups-manship.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Some 25 years ago, before being imported into the US from England, Chester Barrie licensed the name to Hickey Freeman for a few years. The US made Chester Barrie suits and sport coats had 5 proportionally smaller sleeve buttons, and a small chromed chain hanger loop. i wondered why.

Then there are the Tom Ford era Guccis. 

i've noticed some 5 button sleeves on the AMC/BBC series "Hustle".


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## matthewfw (Mar 31, 2004)

*5 buttons*

Well it is Paul Smith, he doesnt do conventional, and also designs for a certain clientele that appreciates certain twists to his line.


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## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

jamgood said:


> Some 25 years ago, before being imported into the US from England, Chester Barrie licensed the name to Hickey Freeman for a few years. The US made Chester Barrie suits and sport coats had 5 proportionally smaller sleeve buttons, and a small chromed chain hanger loop. i wondered why.
> 
> Then there are the Tom Ford era Guccis.
> 
> i've noticed some 5 button sleeves on the AMC/BBC series "Hustle".


I'm convinced the suits are made by Dunhill


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

*buttons*

i have inside info that oxxford is changing to 8 woorking sleeve button sleeves. not to be out done, chris is now is doing 12. so elegant. bravo chris hes our man.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

outrigger said:


> 5 button cuffs can look nice, but only on say a 6x2 or 6x3 DB coat, usually 4 button cuff (preferebly functional) looks better. It's all about proportion I'd say fornstance a 2 button cuff might suit a 2 button SB or a 3 button cuff might suit a sports coat.


IMO, four buttons on a jacket sleeve is the only way to go on a man who is 5' 6" or taller. Also, IMO, three buttons on a jacket sleeve is the only way to go on a man who is 5' 5" or shorter.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

I have an RLPL suit with 5 functional buttons.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Maybe the apprentice is to young to know how to count yet. So, there is six!

Afteral, small children think more is better!


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## joshuagb (Nov 27, 2004)

So the question I have is: is it better to have five buttons on the sleeves rather than having about 1.75 inches of space between the edge of the last button and the end of the sleeve?

I have a made-to-measure suit with functional buttonholes that ended up having the sleeves a bit too short. Had them lengthened and can't decide whether to leave as so, or get an extra button put on each sleeve.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

It's a "fashion" twist to appeal to a trend-conscious buyer. IF you want a fashionable suit, one of many suits in your repertoire perhaps, then it could be good. If you want a conservative staple for a base wardrope, its superfluous poopy cock and jibber jabber, as a famous judge once said.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

A fashionable idea which will come and go. However those who bespeak their suits will at least have 'working' button holes - ten of them!


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

GBR said:


> However those who bespeak their suits will at least have 'working' button holes - ten of them!


A game to play at dreary meetings, perhaps.


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## maxevans (Jun 10, 2007)

Is it supposed to leave the first one or two button unbuttoned? Even for proper attire, the first working button should be unbuttoned for a 4-button sleeve.


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## joshuagb (Nov 27, 2004)

maxevans said:


> Is it supposed to leave the first one or two button unbuttoned? Even for proper attire, the first working button should be unbuttoned for a 4-button sleeve.


Huh? ...


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

maxevans said:


> Is it supposed to leave the first one or two button unbuttoned? Even for proper attire, the first working button should be unbuttoned for a 4-button sleeve.


No that is pure affectation.


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## Pipps (Dec 20, 2005)

GBR said:


> No that is pure affectation.


Agreed.

To 'always wear' the first working cuff button undone, is in my opinion, akin to leaving the factory label stitched upon the sleeve.

Grossly uncouth.


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## english_gent (Dec 28, 2006)

its suit 'bling' .

i've seen skinheads wearing suits with 9 buttons on the cuff.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

I was always told that the reason the buttons were there in the first place evolved during the early army days. It was to discourage the soldiers from wiping their noses on their jacket sleeves during cold weather!!!


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

DocD said:


> I was always told that the reason the buttons were there in the first place evolved during the early army days. It was to discourage the soldiers from wiping their noses on their jacket sleeves during cold weather!!!


:icon_smile: i so hope that's true!

English_gent, "Suit bling" sounds like a good topic for a new thread.


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## Pipps (Dec 20, 2005)

DocD said:


> I was always told that the reason the buttons were there in the first place evolved during the early army days. It was to discourage the soldiers from wiping their noses on their jacket sleeves during cold weather!!!


What a silly story.

The reason that fully operational suit sleeve buttons exist is because Doctors wore suits in Edwardian and Victoria times. The suit sleeves would be rolled up when performing operations.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

Sometimes you have to realize that laughter is the best medicine and humor on this site should not be mistaken for historical fact. However, I found the following information on a HUMOROUS informational website that some may find interesting:

*Why do men's suits have buttons on the sleeves? *

11-Nov-1976​ *Dear Cecil:

There comes a time in every upwardly mobile young man's life when he has to face up to buying a suit. While doing so recently I noticed, as if for the first time, the buttons sewn on the bottom side of the coat sleeves. They had always been there, I suppose, but never before had they seemed so conspicuously useless. The salesman couldn't tell my why the buttons were there; neither could the tailor. Now I'm becoming obsessed. What's the scoop, Cecil? -- M.P., Los Angeles
*
Dear M.:

I don't guarantee that the following is true, M., but it makes a good story, which is about all you can ask in this wicked world.

At one time, supposedly, coat sleeve buttons had an eminently practical function. It seems that Frederick the Great, ruler of Prussia from 1740 to 1786, used to enjoy nothing more than the sight of his troops neatly decked out in uniforms and lined up in rows. Only one thing spoiled the scene: the soldiers insisted on sweating, getting dirty, catching diseases, and bleeding profusely.

Since no one had the foresight to provide the troops with Kleenex with which to mop their brows, the soldiers made do as best they could with their coat sleeves. After a hard day's skirmishing, said sleeves would be covered with unsightly blots and blemishes, and perhaps a vital organ or two.

Naturally this was unacceptable. Frederick pondered long and hard on what to do. Finally, the solution (or "der zolution," as he more likely put it) dawned: sew buttons on the top sides of the sleeves, and soldiers would scratch their faces open every time they tried to use their coats for a handkerchief. Thus was the snappy appearance of Frederick's army preserved. B.F. Skinner would have been proud.

As the army uniforms metamorphosed into civilian dress, the sleeve buttons gradually migrated to the lower side. By this time, presumably, manners among the masses had improved enough that the threat of physical pain was no longer needed to encourage public decency. Now the buttons stay there for the same reason men still wear ties: it's always been done that way, they look vaguely natty, and most men are so baffled by matters sartorial that it never dawns on them to agitate for a change.

--CECIL ADAMS


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## Zingari (Jul 9, 2007)

On a regimental blazer 5 buttons on the sleeve will denote Welsh Guards, 4 for Irish Guards, 3 Scots Guards, 2 x 2pr for Coldstream.


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## ccffm1 (Jul 31, 2005)

GBR said:


> No that is pure affectation.


Agreed. There are few sartorial vices that stir my blood, but this one is highly annoying to me.


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## maxevans (Jun 10, 2007)

GBR said:


> No that is pure affectation.


Glad that all buttons on my suit sleeve are always buttoned despite comments from my designer fellows to unbutton the first of the pack.ic12337:


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## joshuagb (Nov 27, 2004)

Did anyone bother to read my question above?


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## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

I don't think 1 3/4" is all that much distance between the last button and the sleeve end. Sure, I think the norm is around 1 1/4", but we are only talking about 1/2" or so.

If it were me and I felt funny about it, I wouldn't hesitate to add a fifth button.


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