# Loudness as a problem



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Two nights ago I attended what I had hoped would be a swell gathering of interesting people--a party near Princeton, NJ. I had been looking forward to the evening: perhaps a bit of chit-chat about art, films, and books, and maybe some talk of antique furniture and recent trips abroad.

Oh dear God.

It was so loud. Loud. Very loud. Obnoxiously loud. Horribly dressed and mannered people who dared to discuss "social issues" and politics, both of which mix horribly with whiskey. They tried to interrupt and talk over each other. They pointed fingers, slapped knees, and snort-laughed. Even the women snort-laughed. When someone began imitating a "hip hop rapper", I knew it was time to leave.

They were loud. So very loud. Quasi-yelling. It was like an episode of Seinfeld.

Does anyone else crave the quiet, low-key gathering of polite, discreet people who speak slowly and clearly and quietly? I have yet to find a club that's willing to maintain and protect this sort of environmet. 

Harris


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Sadly it seems that most people are animals, which becomes much more apparent again now that all culture is nose-diving as steeply as it can towards the lowest common denominator. Hear that sonic boom? The rate of descent just passed the speed of sound.

Fasten your seat-belts, and assume the crash position.


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

J+ is right on target, Harris, sardonically accurate. I find my closest circles of friends and relatives the most satisfying; but with sanguine essaying into new settings, I increasingly enjoy, for example, the discussions at Colonial Wars and the New York chapter of London Lounge: the key may simply be to continue exploration as we no longer can assume most gatherings to be sensible, considerate, and fun.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Harris,
I agree completely.
The only way I know to find/controll the environment is how I make out my guest list. Elietist - maybe, but worth it for the peace of mind, stimulating conversation and general civility. Nothing a little VSOP won't help by the way - [8D]
Cheers


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Two nights ago I attended what I had hoped would be a swell gathering of interesting people--a party near Princeton, NJ. I had been looking forward to the evening: perhaps a bit of chit-chat about art, films, and books, and maybe some talk of antique furniture and recent trips abroad.
> 
> ...


Many acquaintances are either sedate to the point of boring everyone stiff or rowdy and overfamiliar. A colleague invites you out for an evening with friends and you never know what you will get.

I think that's why we're all posting here.

So...we'd all like to hear how they were dressed and the obnoxious things which were discussed. [8D]


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## Harry96 (Aug 3, 2005)

I couldn't agree more. 

Whenever I see a large group in public (say one large table of people at a restaurant, especially teenagers) talking and laughing loudly, I can't run away fast enough. I couldn't stand being in the middle of that for even five minutes, and it's one of the great mysteries of life to me how anyone could consider such a situation to be fun.


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## winn (Dec 31, 2005)

_Does anyone else crave the quiet, low-key gathering of polite, discreet people who speak slowly and clearly and quietly? I have yet to find a club that's willing to maintain and protect this sort of environment._(Harris, 20 February 2006)

Harris -

Please check out my post "The Art of the Toast" here in the Interchange, dated 30 January 2006. The pub was Triumph, The location within the pub was the balcony overlooking the upper level bar - my gathering had it to ourselves. The management was incredibly accommodating to me when I asked for a separate area to pull this evening off. Monday nights are relatively quiet there. No progress yet on future evenings - but the interest is there.

Seriously,
Winn


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

Was this event implied as a salon?

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## Nantucket Red (Jan 26, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> Harris,
> I agree completely.
> ...


Nothing's wrong with elitism. I'm a great fan, particularly where it makes it possible to avoid dismal scenes like the one Harris describes.

What a little VSOP will help, a little XO will help more.

-------------------------------------------------
God gave us women; the Devil gave them corsets.
- French proverb


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Hipness prevailed.


I'm just glad I'm not cool enough to be invited anywhere like that.

Edit: Or should I say not chill enough? Yes, I'm not chill enough.


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

The incessant chatter is everywhere. People wake up to an alarm that plays music or buzzes. Then we start flipping switches like Hans Solo taking the Millenium Falcon into hyperdrive; turn on the news,the coffee, this thing we're typing on, check our emails, text messages on the cellphone and callback only to be put on hold with a stirring muzak rendition of EXODUS. Into the hermetically sealed SUV except a riceburner cum sound system on wheels is blasting some angst filled slop from a undecended testicled industrial music genius from Seattle so loud your teeth are getting a free cleaning. At work people are talking about the L word on T.V. and you wonder if they mean Lucy and Desi or Looney Tunes. We use decibles like McDonalds supersizes it's 'food.' I could continue, but it's approaching midnight. Time for Zen meets western monk. I'm lighting a beeswax candle, some incense and enjoying the-------


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

"Silence like a poultice comes to heal the blows of sound"

Oliver Wendell Holmes


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Growing up, my parents emphasized a certain delightful something called "inside voices." There was never any yelling or even "raised voices" in the house. Soft almost whisper-like voices were used. To no small degree, quietness equaled class. 

When I visited the home/family of a college girlfriend, I remember being shocked at all the yelling and screaming and loud laughing. Lots of drama; lots of overreacting to things that did not merit overreaction; and lots of exclamations: "You're JOKING!", "YOU'VE GOTTA BE KIDDING!", "OH MY GOD!".


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

These same feelings are why I do not go to restuarants much lately. Even the nice ones tend to cram people together, just to make more money, and the acoustics are terrible. I want quiteness, where I can enjoy the company and the cuisine!


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## ChubbyTiger (Mar 10, 2005)

A few years of using one's iPod will degrade one's hearing to the point where one may not be aware of one's volume.

CT


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> Lots of black turtlenecks. And facial hair--especially the men, who seem (these days) to prefer something called a "goatee" (sp?). In case you're unaware, it involves the growth of hair on one's chin. Horrible. Lots of denim jeans. Even black denim jeans. At least two women appeared to have just recently stopped following the Grateful Dead on tour, and all eyeglass frames were those teeny-tiny rimless numbers that are, well, you know, oh-so hip. Lots of awful jokes aimed at Republicans and people who aren't feminist, "peace-loving," or into fancy wines. And, by the way, plenty of discussion about some "really cool liberal synagogue" where some "really cool rabbi who's very progressive" is doing Yahweh's work.
> 
> Ugh.
> ...


'Sounds as though a few dozen ill-mannered folk regret they missed the '50s. 'Sounds also as though you made the best of a bad thing (and it'd be difficult to know whether the noise or the sights were worse).

Tiger's right, though: Yahweh's the same as the Protestant God (we're _not_ talking Mohammed and his ramblings).


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

hey, harris - let me introduce you to my mother in law some time, everybody else on the planet is quiet, in comparrison. 

when my 4 year old son drew a picture of himself with her - he put earmuffs on his figure, "so she wouldn't hurt his ears"


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## Tyto (Sep 22, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by globetrotter_
> when my 4 year old son drew a picture of himself with her - he put earmuffs on his figure, "so she wouldn't hurt his ears"


Absolutely priceless.

Harris: You're not alone: "inside voices" were taught in my family, too. Wonderful things, those.

__________

Fair and softly goes far.


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

What on earth has Coltrane to do with coarseness, vulgarity and yuppie liberalism? The man was a genius and an artist.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Why, some of my best friends are hipsters! Wages of a misspent youth.

We are working on the "inside voice" concept with our 3-year-old. He seems to be getting it, and is doing very well with his "pleases" and "thank yous." Another good sign: he absolutely despises cell phones and refuses to speak into one.


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_
> 
> What on earth has Coltrane to do with coarseness, vulgarity and yuppie liberalism? The man was a genius and an artist.


Conspicuous hiptitude.


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## Hugh Morrison (May 24, 2005)

It's nothing new. WH Auden saw all this in 1939:

Faces along the bar
cling to their average day;
The lights must never go out,
The music must always play
Lest we know who we are,
Lost in a haunted wood,
Children afraid of the dark,
Who have never been happy or good.

from "September, 1939"

The answer is, don't go to loud places! You can't ignore a lot of noise pollution but you can choose to patronise bars etc that encourage a quiet atmosphere. The trouble is these are harder and harder to find. My own club has a strict no mobile phone use rule, but this is constantly broken by loud mouthed boors, who even wave away the staff who ask them to end their conversations. 



'The casual idea is the triumph of misguided egalitarianism. By playing to the desire to seem non-judgmental, the Slob has succeeded in forcing his tastes on the world at large (because to object to inappropriate dress would be judgmental)'- Patrick07690


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Been thinking about this topic. Quiet/loud. I know I will sound like an old fogey but it does seem as if the world is louder now than when I was a kid. As a child I don't ever remember the car radio being on - conversation was order of the day - maybe my dad listened to it alone on his way to/from work. Likewise the television was never on "in the background", it was either watched or off. Aside from "inside voices" one had to be particularly careful when swimming - all that water and tile. 
Not to get the thread off topic, but I seem to think the world is very brightly lite now, all those humming fluorescent lights.


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

I do fewer and fewer such parties, and have my own dinners and even music evenings at home. 

I have come to hate noise, and find it harder and harder to find peace and quiet.

Hotels are the worst. Slamming doors, noisy fools in the halls, and other obnoxious behavior of other kinds, including 2 AM showers. I dread travel, really, I guess I am becoming something of Howard Hughes, but really! People are so bloody inconsiderate.

J


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

Were these neo-Beatniks?

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## jjmorgan (Aug 24, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Hugh Morrison_
> 
> The answer is, don't go to loud places! You can't ignore a lot of noise pollution but you can choose to patronise bars etc that encourage a quiet atmosphere. The trouble is these are harder and harder to find. My own club has a strict no mobile phone use rule, but this is constantly broken by loud mouthed boors, who even wave away the staff who ask them to end their conversations.


Which Club is this? That's awful, you should complain to the secretary. At the In & Out, if your phone goes off you must buy everyone in the room a drink. That must be a case if you commence a converstation!


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## Hugh Morrison (May 24, 2005)

Don't want to say exactly which club I belong to, but if I say it's off Berkeley Square and has a swimming pool that should give you enough to go on. There are constant reminders about phones but these often seem to be ignored. Glad to hear the In and Out has a stricter policy.

'The casual idea is the triumph of misguided egalitarianism. By playing to the desire to seem non-judgmental, the Slob has succeeded in forcing his tastes on the world at large (because to object to inappropriate dress would be judgmental)'- Patrick07690


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

I apologize for asking this, but I need to know how far from the majority I am. What is the age range of those of you craving quiet and in-door voices?

Trust me, I'm not one for loud talking all the time (I am Italian though, loud talking does come naturally), but at a party? It was a party not a wake, correct? 

If you were put in an empty room with one other person and had a conversation, your sound level would be lower than if you were in that same room, with that same person, having that same conversation along with 10 other couples. Loud is relative and parties get loud, or is it that you've gotten old?

Again I apologize, maybe at 37 I haven't grown up yet.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harry96_
> 
> Whenever I see a large group in public (say one large table of people at a restaurant, especially teenagers) talking and laughing loudly, I can't run away fast enough.


From my point of view, running away is not a sustainable option. You gradually abandon space which will be occupied by these people. Why?

If this happens to my, I deliberately intoxicate myself. Then I give them back a little bit of their own medicine.


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## WisBadger77 (Jun 12, 2005)

Someone at work really rubbed me the wrong way going on about "inside voices." Since childhood I've only had full hearing in one ear, and partial in the other. Hearing aids don't help much. I do the best I can but at times I may sound louder than I mean to.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Albert_
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 That's the very purpose of my sword-cane.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by rojo_
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Usually my friends and I go to a bar where talk is at least reasonably audible but sometimes they insist on one of those dark, loud places.

In those cases, the word they used to describe my complete disinterest in going anywhere near such places is "not fun".

I enjoy being "not fun" so much I asked them never to invite me if they're going to such a "fun" place after the first two times.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Growing up, my parents emphasized a certain delightful something called "inside voices." There was never any yelling or even "raised voices" in the house. Soft almost whisper-like voices were used. To no small degree, quietness equaled class.
> 
> When I visited the home/family of a college girlfriend, I remember being shocked at all the yelling and screaming and loud laughing. Lots of drama; lots of overreacting to things that did not merit overreaction; and lots of exclamations: "You're JOKING!", "YOU'VE GOTTA BE KIDDING!", "OH MY GOD!".


Yes....I was indoctrinated with "[Coolidge], we all know you're here" By age 6 I had quieted down considerably.

WisBadger77 I don't think the idea is to criticize those who are hard of hearing and can't always tell how loud they seem. More the people who have perfect hearing and should know better.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

In addition to the gloves I almost always wear in public because of germs, I am reasonably close to also wearing earplugs in public.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

If I were inclined to agree with you and the chorus (and I'm not) you would have lost me at your implied criticism of Coltrane.

Some of my thoughts: 

I love the sound of laughing teenagers at restaurants; it reminds me that, in a world where adults often focus on duties, and burdens, and far-flung wars, children can still, well, be children. 

Laughing out loud (the ubiquitous "LOL" in real-life) with friends? Nothing sounds better to these ears. We "LOL" on this board, but shun it in public?

For every goatee-wearing GOP-basher, I could show you a country club where much of the talk (in inside voices, admittedly) centers around "the damn unions" and, if you're really an insider, some less savory opinions too. It's kind of interesting looking like a Republican throwback, because I get to hear all the stuff they don't say in front of people who don't look like them.

As far as your desire to talk about "art, films, and books" I'd be surprised that you would find those subjects less provocative than other topics. Much (most?) great art probes the depths of the human condition; to talk about it at any meaningful level requires an emotional investment. 

As far as your comments on religion and the cool rabbi, I guess I'm missing your point; what's wrong with telling someone about a religious leader they might enjoy hearing? It isn't classy enough? How does it differ in substance from "the Reverend Winthorpe at All Saints stretches his analogies in just the correct manner, you would enjoy him so"?

Sorry. Although I know all the notes, I can't join your amen chorus.


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Horribly dressed and mannered people who dared to discuss "social issues" and politics, both of which mix horribly with whiskey.
> 
> ...





> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> And, by the way, plenty of discussion about some "really cool liberal synagogue" where some "really cool rabbi who's very progressive" is doing Yahweh's work.
> 
> God--the Protestant one, that is--be praised, as I was spared.


I find the insidious anti-semitic undertones of your post quite offensive.

Why not go ahead and say it Harris: those left-wing, pseudo-intellectual Jews who argue loudly about politics because they can't hold their liquor really get on your nerves.

Your nostalgia for the bygone era when Jews and other such non-desirables were barred from your clubs is truly quaint. I didn't realize bigotry was trad.

Well I have only one thing to say to you, and I'll say it as loud as i can: F**K YOU!!


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Relax EL....anyone who is truly "offended" by posts made on an internet message board has to much time on their hands/ not enough meaning in their lives

Chill out

MrR



"Give me the luxuries in life and I'll gladly go without the necessities"


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
> Well I have only one thing to say to you...


Or to quote an old song:

Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie...

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And everybody hates the Jews.

But during National Brotherhood Week,
National Brotherhood Week,
It's National Everyone-Smile-At-One-Another-Hood Week.
Be nice to people who
Are inferior to you.
It's only for a week, so have no fear;
Be grateful that it doesn't last all year!

-- Tom Lehrer


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
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I am glad that you said that. It is not just this thread, but many of his that ave an anti-Jewish tone.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

Yes, we must all begin knee-jerk PCism as soon as someone says anything that mentions, for any reason, even contextually, a culture that is not white male and Protestant. 

Now we're looking for "undertones" in people's posts. I find that considerably more disturbing than Harris's mere display of sarcastic with. 

You guys need to find a liberal New England college campus somewhere. They'd just love you. You could bring in people daily to interrogate them on whether they were imposing their "heteronormative white-privileged views on traditionally underrepresented groups in repeated Bias Incidents."

There's no point in apologizing Harris, there's nothing you can say to accusations like this. Don't honor them with a reply, as you are an honorable gent.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
> 
> Yes, we must all begin knee-jerk PCism as soon as someone says anything that mentions, for any reason, even contextually, a culture that is not white male and Protestant.
> 
> ...


Coolidge-

I think that you can confirm from my prior posts in the Interchange that if anything I am non-pc and quite conservative. I have no interest in bashing anything white or privileged. In other words, I am simply not one for self-flagellation.

That being said, I have often found myself cringing at the overt and covert anti-jewish tack of many of Harris' posts.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
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Fair enough Matt, but I just don't see these huge anti-Semetic undertones. Sarcasm+a reference to a TV show that was the most popular in America as a reference point doth not a Mein Kampf make, imo.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
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I didn't actually notice the Seinfeld comment.

I think the Synagogue comments were pretty damn insensitive. I don;t think that making the same mocking comments, including mimicking the verbage, about a black Southern church would go over too well.

My thoughts about Harris' anti-Jewish comments are not limited to this thread. They often come up when referring to neo-conservatives in other interchange threads. I am not accusing him of being Hitler, or even of dressing up in a white hood at night. I just think that there is no more place for these kind of comments than there is for the same ones about Blacks or Catholics or Christians.

My guess is that Harris, in his own very tasteless way, is trying to be as Trad as possible. EL72 hit the nail on the head, there is something very Trad about wanting to keep the others out of the country club and making these silly comments like Harris has.


> quote:
> Does anyone else crave the quiet, low-key gathering of polite, discreet people who speak slowly and clearly and quietly? I have yet to find a club that's willing to maintain and protect this sort of environmet.


 What is nice is that none of the other Trads on this board seem to take the act this far. It is a shame that Harris does.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

I think we'll agree to disagree.

Back to loudness...

I think people laughing, kids laughing, etc, people talking in restaurants is fine.

It's the excessive behavior that bothers me and it seems to becoming more and more "normal" so much so that people are afraid to confront it by either summoning the maitre'd or pointedly asking the offender to desist from screeching in a nice restaurant so others can enjoy their meals.


As to the party, it depends on the kind of party. Sure, parties are suppoesd to be fun, and unless its more of a formal party, some boisterousness is to be expected.

Nontheless, I think there is a general trend toward every kind of party getting even louder. I've been to many a keg in my lifetime, but it seems that every year, the music is cranked up to slightly more deafening levels. At the opposite end of the spectrum, to which Harris was trying to allude, I believe, we have the light cocktail soiree, which is SUPPOSED to be "a bit of chit-chat" as he noted in the opening post, and these parties, because too many of the guests have learned their manners at the increasingly loud bars, kegs, etc, are turning to "obnoxiously loud" affairs with horribly dressed people.

There needs to be a general downturn of the volume everywhere.

I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon, because now we have IPods to blast rock music right up next to the eardrum, which seems to me almost ensure hearing loss in a few years, making for a populace that is almost completely hard of hearing.


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## m kielty (Dec 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Hugh Morrison_
> 
> It's nothing new. WH Auden saw all this in 1939:
> 
> ...


The poem isn't about loudness in a bar.
It's about all of us who post and love talking about cars or watches
or whatever.
Not meaning to put too fine a point on it but the the anti-Semitic
tone in some of these posts is more annoying than loudness in any restaurant.

mk


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MrRogers_
> 
> Relax EL....anyone who is truly "offended" by posts made on an internet message board has to much time on their hands/ not enough meaning in their lives
> 
> ...


Please save me your ad hominem logic. If someone says something I find offensive on the Internet, I will point it out - just like I would if he were standing right in front of me.

You may disagree with the offensive nature but don't tell me to chill out. I am sure there are many things one could say to offend you - even on the Internet.


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
> 
> Yes, we must all begin knee-jerk PCism as soon as someone says anything that mentions, for any reason, even contextually, a culture that is not white male and Protestant.
> 
> ...


I am hardly a bleeding heart, left-wing liberal and abhor most of the logic inherent in PC behavior. If you can't read between the lines of others' writing however, you will have a fun time as a teacher.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
> I am hardly a bleeding heart, left-wing liberal and abhor most of the logic inherent in PC behavior.


I don't think any one really would, not when you quote the vice-president..."Well I have only one thing to say to you, and I'll say it as loud as i can: F**K YOU!!"...Oh wait, are there any senators on the board?


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
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This is why I am not a teacher, but a trusts and estates lawyer in training.


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## Financier (Mar 6, 2006)

I'm with Mr. Checks on this one. Nothing wrong with cutting up and having a good time at a party. Restraint and understatement are virtues, no doubt, but last time I checked social gatherings were supposed to be enjoyed. 

If Harris dislikes crowds, noise, goatees, or Jews, I can't see why he attended.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
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hmmm... hard to say how to react to that. I like pretty understated get togetethers. I have been known to like pretty wild parties. I now, mostly go to parties that involve adults drinking beer and chasing screaming 4 year olds around.

I am not sure I would suggest how parties ought to be enjoyed.


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

[/quote]

... I have often found myself cringing at the overt and covert anti-jewish tack of many of Harris' posts.
[/quote]

If I recall correctly he's made similar comments since he joined the board and I believe it's completely out of his awareness and that the comments are made without malice. To suggest otherwise would not lead to any introspection, but rather, indignation.

As far as the loudness issue is concerned, I avoid loud parties. About six years ago I discontinued our traditional attendance at a New Years Eve party in favor of hosting a small dinner party at our home. Since my late 40's I've required a hearing aid and loud places with lots of people talking is just too much, not that I ever enjoyed it to begin with.

I actually envy people who love to mix it up in a crowd!


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
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Doubtful....even if there were I wouldnt reply with profanity

I suppose I am also fed up with the general PC movement that seems to be taking over nowdays. I just think everyone needs to relax a bit as I dont believe I can ever understand how one can be truly "offended" by anothers words.

MrR

"Give me the luxuries in life and I'll gladly go without the necessities"


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
> Well I have only one thing to say to you, and I'll say it as loud as i can: F**K YOU!!


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MrRogers_
> 
> I dont believe I can ever understand how one can be truly "offended" by anothers words.
> 
> MrR


Perhaps it's because you have never been discriminated against or stereotyped as a function of your belonging to a particular ethnic, racial or religious group?


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## Financier (Mar 6, 2006)

It would appear that a Harris post inbetween mine and globetrotter's has mysteriously vanished. 

In any case, its evident from Harris' response (as viewed in globetrotter's post) that he's quite concerned with how others enjoy their social gatherings. There are lots of gathering that I know I wouldn't enjoy. That's why I don't attend. Harris would be better served to find gatherings of folks with similar elitist sensibilities, rather than rail against the load, goateed, knee slapping Jewish folks that attending this particular party.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

My sincere and deepest apologies to anyone and everyone who has taken offense at my posts in this forum. The person who suggested that I intended no malice is precisely right, and yet I can see how (an admittedly insensitive, it seems) flippancy has the power to offend.

I am not, as has been suggested, "anti-Jewish" or "anti-Semitic." Would that I were able to somehow prove this by offering (as evidence) the large number of Jewish friends and colleagues whose wisdom and good humor I enjoy weekly if not daily. Their good humor extends to frequently sarcastic (insensitive?) comments about the Jewish religious and cultural tradition in which they were raised. Oftentimes I "join in" the self-depreciative fun by poking fun at staid, high church Anglicanism and the admittedly stale blandness for which WASPdom is known. Anyone who's read my posts among the forum boards knows that I try to maintain a healthy sense of humor about the traditions that have defined me. 

Again, my apologies.

Cheers,
Harris


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Harris, do you think they carry buttondown hairshirts at J. Press?


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## Tyto (Sep 22, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by xcubbies_
> 
> Harris, do you think they carry buttondown hairshirts at J. Press?


I think the closest they come is the 1/2-canvassed Pressidential line...

__________

Fair and softly goes far.


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## WisBadger77 (Jun 12, 2005)

Perhaps Harris'comments need to be taken in the context of referring to the more liberal, out there elements of the mainline religious groups, rather than singling out the Jewish faith in particular. Just seems in this instance the conversation he overheard was about a rabbi. 

Just a thought, Harris...maybe you should join Judaism for the jokes.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

To get back on the subject of being loud....maybe we should all just be quiet?[}]


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