# Mercer vs. Brooks OCBD Comparison (pictures)



## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

Note: If there is some information not provided, clarification needed, or anything else, please send me a PM or post and I'll add any information I can.

Well, finally the Mercer shirts came. This review will provide measurements for unwashed shirts. I believe once the Press shirt comes I will wait to add Press measurements until all shirts have been washed a "few" times.

Both Mercer and Brooks shirts are 'traditional' or 'regular' cut. Size for both shirts is 16.5/33. A thank you is in order to Patrick for posting pictures of his Mercer shirts...I think his pictures did me in.

For me, the best way to compare will be to just wear the Mercer shirt for a while and see what I think. I am happy with the Brooks shirts I have (20+) as I like the roll, the fit for me, etc. There is no substitute for just wearing the shirts and seeing what you think.

I've measured about everything I can think of that may or may not matter to someone. For example, I like the roll of the Brooks, but yet do not know about the roll of the Mercer. In my opinion, I really don't care about the measurements if I like the way something looks...but here it goes:

1. Collar.

a. Point lengths -- M 3-9/16 inches -- BB 3-3/8 inches
b. Across collar, button to button -- M 3-5/16 -- BB 3-3/8
c. Height (back of collar) -- both 2 inches
d. Tie space (top of collar where tie would go) M - 3/8 BB 5/16

2. Chest M - 52-1/4 BB- 52

3. Waist M - 49 BB - 50 (measured 3 inches below pocket)

4. Tails

a. Front down (top button down to bottom of shirt) M - 30 BB - 30 1/8
b. Side down (under arms to bottom of shirt) M - 17-1/4 BB - 18-1/4
c. Back down (bottom of collar to bottom shirt) M -33-1/4 BB 33-1/2

5. Shoulders (across yoke) M - 20 BB 19-1/4

6. More details

a. Width of cuff M-2 9/16 BB - 2-7/16
b. Cuff opening M - 4-3/8 BB - 4-3/4
c. Sleeve placket opening (to start of cuff) M - 5-1/4 BB 5-7/16
d. Number of front buttons M - 6 BB - 7
e. Both have box pleat
f. Both have non-split, non-mitered yoke

Now some pictures. I've used two BB shirts...one white, another university stripe. The university stripe is for close-up photos as I didn't think the white would show up as well. I apologize for the pictures that didn't turn out very clear. If I had a little more time and a better camera...

Here is a picture of the collar roll. Blue shirt is Mercer and White BB

https://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sidebysiderollfa0.jpg

There has been some commentary in the past about the buttonholes on the Mercer shirts. The Mercer buttonholes are not as well finished, but on the blue shirt I have, they are ok. Blue shirt is Mercer...university stripe is BB. This gives a good shot of the shirt fabric, buttonholes, and buttons.

https://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sidebysidebuttonts5.jpg

Both shirts have single-needle tailoring. Here is a shot of the seams on the shirts...again Blue is Mercer...

https://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brooksseam2cz3.jpg
https://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brooksseammm9.jpg

The underside of the Mercer front placket at the bottom of the shirt...

https://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5162nz6.jpg

And the Brooks...

https://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5163qu8.jpg

A close-up photo of the Mercer collar roll...

https://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5147da9.jpg

Mercer Tag (blue and white shirts)

https://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5148sd3.jpg

https://img403.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5145ys7.jpg

The Mercer front pocket...

https://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mercerpocketqh5.jpg

And lastly a close up of the collar point on the Mercer...

https://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5149mo0.jpg

The Brooks shirt material is more substantial. The Mercer shirt material feels almost exactly like the Brooks material used during the mid-1990s on a couple of shirts I have.

Based on measurements, the Mercer shirt isn't all that baggier than the Brooks shirt. Also, the Mercer shirt does not have tails that much shorter than the Brooks shirt.


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

I just noticed in the package that came from David Mercer that he included a handwritten note about the conversation we had on the phone. Something like THAT goes a long way in my book.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

John, your hard work seems to be going unnoticed...the ungrateful sons a bees.

But not by me. I'm a first responder, so to speak. I've read your review two or three times. I even clicked the photos to enlarge. 

A better review would be action photos...with break dancing. You know, head spins and such. (winks)

I'm sure Familyman will be plugging all the data into his RadioShack TRS-80. He'll then PM and tell me what I should think. I'll let you know when he does.


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## 3button Max (Feb 6, 2006)

*mercer/vs Brooks-*

what is the differnce in length of tails-
thanks

max


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

You're right Squire...action shots it is...I'm an auditor by profession, so here it goes...

Picture #1...here is how the collar rolls as I'm going over a recent bank reconciliation. I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to pay for the #$*^%#$ Mercer shirts.

https://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5174fv2.jpg

Picture #2...here's a great calculator shot with the shirt...trying to figure out how I got screwed out of $125.45 per shirt. Maybe baggier is not better after all.

https://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5176ey8.jpg


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

*Tails*

Max,

I took measurements of the tails in three areas: the front, side, and back

The front, meaning down the placket from the top of the neck area. BB shirt is 1/8 inch longer.

The side, meaning from under the arm down to the bottom side of the shirt...BB is 1 inch longer.

The back, from the bottom of the collar, to the bottom of the shirt... BB is 1/4 inch longer.

Mind you, this is all before washing.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Oh, John! I'm seeing a double digit thread here. Those shots are money.

Remember, when you have them washed make sure your girl doesn't iron the cuffs, collar, or placket.


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

Hey, I do all the ironing around my house and that includes the ironing for the wife and all the kids. How am I going to trust anyone else to get the thing done right?


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

Great pics. I think after this thread they may owe you more than just a thank you note. This is adversiting they could never buy.


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## naylor (May 31, 2007)

JohnMS said:


> I just noticed in the package that came from David Mercer that he included a handwritten note about the conversation we had on the phone. Something like THAT goes a long way in my book.


I sent David an e-mail asking a couple of questions, and it wasn't five minutes until I got a reply and he said I could call anytime to discuss things. When I called, David answered the phone and had the e-mail and notes about what I wanted in front of him. You just can't beat that.

When I get the tattersall I ordered so I can check the size, I fully intend to buy more from him because he's the kind of guy I like to support.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

John

Thanks for the posts. I have ordered some forward point shirts in the past. I am looking forward to my first order of Mercer button downs.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Great data, thanks. Both shirts are made in USA? What was cost of each?

I'm not seeing a significant difference, frankly.

Scott


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## Keith T (May 15, 2006)

Diggin' the calculator shot.:icon_smile_big: 

Probably the most telling photo for me is the very first one posted, showing the collar roll, where it seems to me the Mercer gets a slight nod. But if the fabric is less substantial than Brooks, well, you might say it is nearly a wash. With the recent post regarding BB's price increase, that's another consideration....

Always good to have the emprical evidence on record. The tape measure don't lie.

If anything your efforts would make me more likely to consider a Mercer purchase, but the proof is in the wearing, and you said that best yourself. I'd be interested in a follow up after a half dozen wearings/washings.


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

Regarding cost....

Mercer is something like $78.50 for first-time buyers if you purchase the blue or the white. BB is I believe $79.50 at full price. Thing is, I've been consistently able to purchase the BB for $30 shipped from eBay. I don't regret the Mercer purchase as I have been curious for a while now.

David's customer service is top notch. From the start he mentioned he'd work with me to "make me happy" with the shirts. I took that to mean fit, style, whatever, I'm free to call and discuss with him.


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## Benjamin.65 (Nov 1, 2006)

Chum,

thank you for your detailed exposition of the two duelling collars. I say, I don't see what all the fuss is about Mercer. Fabric is middling at best. Buttonholes are wretched. Only thing it has going for it is the tennis collar.

I see the appeal of buying from a small shopkeeper, and that has it's charm, surely. But the Brooks shirt is superior.


Cheers,

Bingo


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## Thornhill (May 14, 2006)

For non-first-time buyers, though, the Mercer & Sons website indicates that prices for an OCBD in the same colors offered by BB range from $90-92.50, compared to BB's $79.50. For that reason, I prefer BB for the basic OCBD and Mercer for the patterns and broadcloth.

https://mercerandsons.com/swatches_and_pricing.htm


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

*A big thank you*

John,
Thanks for the report and the photos. Job well done and much appreciated.
Cheers


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

Great post and photos. Thank you. My observations:

1. As a tall fellow, that extra inch on the sides is very important to me. I understand that tall shirts are available at Mercer, but at extra cost.

2. In most other respects the shirts do seem similar, therefore, being able to buy the BBs on sale at 3 for $149 makes a bit of difference to me.

3. I would like to try a oxford cloth tennis collar, because that is unavailable at Brooks, unless you go MTM, at which price the Mercer is the better deal.

Perhaps when I really make it big, I will be willing to spend more to support Mercer. I love the idea of supporting a made in USA small company, but, and especially since my shirt quota is presently met, I cannot justify the expense at this time.

Thank you again for your valuable post.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

JohnMS,

Thanks so much for excellent research on a product that many of us have been wondering about.

Personally, I might still consider Mercer for slimmer cut shirts (they offer a shirt that is taken in 2 inches on the sides). And someday, I might finally commission a 4 button placket model. Otherwise, I will stick with BB.

Excellent report though.


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

The measurement comparison is in line with my experience. The difference in the cut of the two shirts could only be appreciated by shirt nerds. 

To me, Mercer stands out on the patterned broadcloth as they are difficult to find elsewhere unfused, properly sized and cut, and non-techno. On the OCBD, Mercer has a slight edge but BB is a better deal.


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

I washed the Mercer shirts last night and have one on. I hope the sleeve length shrinks about an inch so it will be more in line with the sizing of my BB shirts.

The Mercer fabric is interesting in that it doesn't seem as substantial as the BB, but the overall weight of the shirt when holding it seems every bit as substantial as the BB.

I like the BB standard blue OCBD for color. However, the Mercer blue is, for lack of better words, more brilliant than the BB. In putting the Mercer blue to the BB blue, the BB blue looks to be dull. I purchased the Mercers because I just had to try them, but for cost effectiveness, I don't see why not BB at this point. (In fact I'm thinking about giving Lands' End Hyde Park another try after years of not buying them)

Note: As far as details go, the Mercer side seams are absolutely flawless. They do not pucker like the BB. Also, the Mercer seams on the inside of the collar are finished very nicely. Unless I come into big money, I don't see paying the price as a non-first-time customer of around $100 per shirt. Who knows though, perhaps as I have the shirts for months and months I may change my mind.

At this point, I'll have to agree with Speas' assessment.


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## zignatius (Oct 8, 2004)

Speas said:


> To me, Mercer stands out on the patterned broadcloth as they are difficult to find elsewhere unfused, properly sized and cut, and non-techno. On the OCBD, Mercer has a slight edge but BB is a better deal.


I agree with Speas. And I actually prefer BB OCBDs, but a raving yes for Mercer patterns and broadcloths (I have only a couple). My only complaint is that David offers too few bold tattersalls and inspired fat stripes. There is absolutely nothing like a Mercer broadcloth ... so cottony-softy-pure, zero fusing or interfacing in the collars and superior buttons. I'm no expert, but the effect is a product that feels and looks untouched by modern cost-cutting production.

If there's anyone facing a maiden decision between Brooks Bros. and Mercer, no question: BB oxford cloth supima original trad fit (E1 or whatever it is). It's a staple and the gold standard.


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

Thanks for the comments


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

I remember a similar post comparing, I think, the BB measurements to the Lands' End. Can anybody point me in the right direction? I, too, would like to put some money into a couple of Mercers if I ever hit it big, but seeing as I don't own a BB shirt to compare, I'd be interested how the Mercer compares to the LE.


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

wnh,

If I can remember tonight, I have some LE shirts I'll take some measurements on. Please send me a PM to remind me, will you?


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

JohnMS said:


> wnh,
> 
> If I can remember tonight, I have some LE shirts I'll take some measurements on. Please send me a PM to remind me, will you?


Even better. I appreciate it.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

John:

Thank you for your effort. I appreciate it.

Question: seems like the Mercer shirt's yoke distance is almost 1 inch longer than that of the BB shirt. So one of the two shirts dont fit right in the shoulder. Which one is it?


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## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

Untilted said:


> Question: seems like the Mercer shirt's yoke distance is almost 1 inch longer than that of the BB shirt. So one of the two shirts dont fit right in the shoulder. Which one is it?


I measured the distances as 20" (Mercer) and 19-1/2" (BB). My Ben Silver beefy oxford measures 19-3/4". I don't notice that much of a difference between them. The difference I noticed is in sleeve length; the BB and BS are just right and the Mercer is 1/4-1/2" too long. I'll remember that next time I place an order with David, but for now I'm pretty much set as far as OCBDs are concerned.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

JohnMS said:


> I washed the Mercer shirts last night and have one on. I hope the sleeve length shrinks about an inch so it will be more in line with the sizing of my BB shirts.


Weird. I did read that a lot of posts saying the Mercer sleeves are too long, but mine fits just the same as my BB MTM (well, as far as the sleeves are concerned anyways). If Mercers has split-yokes I think I would say I found THE shirt for me (I realize BB doesn't either, but as it stands I like some BB fabrics more and some Mercer fabrics more).

Reading the post above that was made while I made this post, I think I know why I don't have sleeve issues with Mercers: I fill in the yoke on the Mercers and so the extra yoke doesn't add to the sleeve.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

First, wow. I need to add a few more shirts to my closet.

Second, those look like some nice hangers. Are they specifically designed for dress shirts? The way the collar sits on the curve makes it look like they are. All of my hangers (cheapies from Wal-Mart or some such) leave my shirt collars dangling there kind of awkwardly, usually drooping down in front. Are these hangers anything special, or can you find them anywhere?


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

Tilt,

Yeah, I didn't think about it, but the one-inch extra yoke in the Mercer would account for the sleeve difference I believe. The Mercer yoke is the one too wide for me...the Brooks is just right.

whn,

I'll be on those Lands' End measurements (again for 16.5-33) in about a half an hour.


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

*Mercer vs. LE measurements (as requested)*

1. Collar. Mercer and LE shirts vary a bit in looks vs Mercer and BB

Again both shirts are 16 1/2 - 33

a. Point lengths -- M 3-9/16 inches -- LE 3-1/4
b. Across collar, button to button -- M 3-5/16 LE 2-7/8 
c. Height (back of collar) - M 2 inches LE - 1-7/8
d. Tie space (top of collar where tie would go) M - 3/8 LE 1/2

2. Chest M - 52-1/4 LE 50-1/2

3. Waist M - 49 LE - 48-1/2 (measured 3 inches below pocket)

4. Tails

a. Front down (top button down to bottom of shirt) M - 30 LE 29-1/2
b. Side down (under arms to bottom of shirt) M - 17-1/4 LE 16-3/4
c. Back down (bottom of collar to bottom shirt) M -33-1/4 LE - 30-1/4

5. Shoulders (across yoke) M - 20 LE - 20-3/16

6. More details

a. Width of cuff M-2 9/16 LE - 2-7/16
b. Cuff opening M - 4-3/8 LE - 4-3/16
c. Sleeve placket opening (to start of cuff) M - 5-1/4 LE - 5-3/8
d. Number of front buttons M - 6 LE - 7
e. Both have box pleat
f. Mercer - non-split yoke LE - split, mitered yoke
g. Mercer - no sleeve placket button LE - button (horizontal)


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## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

wnh said:


> Are these hangers anything special, or can you find them anywhere?


They're the cheap metal hangers used by the dry cleaners. I don't have the time or patience to launder and iron my own shirts.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Just FYI, you can get split-yokes on Mercer shirts if you order 3 or more and are willing to pay $12.50 extra per shirt.


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

Split AND mitered?


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

JohnMS said:


> Split AND mitered?


You know, I didn't ask about mitered, I always thought it goes hand in hand.


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