# Bills Khakis - The Real Deal?



## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

I've needed a few pair of solid khaki pants for a while. I have a few pair by Banana and a pair by Hickey that are OK, but I've thought about getting myself into some Bills M3. I'm pretty skinny at 150lbs and 5'9" and like my khakis to be trimmer. I do have runners legs so uber trim trousers are ng for me.

Anyway, are they really worth the price? I mean, my BR khakis were like $30 on sale. The ones I'm looking at are on sale for about $70. Are they that much better? Or are you paying for a "Trad" designer name? 

TY-Rob


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

What can I say? I have 9 pairs, and wear them almost every day. For me, they are perfect:teacha:
Mine are all M1's and M2's, though...
Mark S.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

I personally find them to be extremely good quality. I currently have three pair (M1, M2 and Henley Pants) and at this point I would not buy anything else. 

Although they are pricey, Bills Khaki's are definitely the best I have owned since my original LL Bean khakis some 25-years ago in high school.

As to the price, check Ebay and for deals.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

No idea about Bills. I am 27 and like you, I am 155lbs at 5'10" with a 31" waist and have a hard time finding a pair of trim (not skin tight) khakis. Beleive it or not, the khakis I wear these days are from dockers and old navy ... they sit at the waist though, kinda like jeans and I have a feeling they won't last long. The old navy one is soft and comfortable to wear, best suited for weekends. Dockers is good for work, but they don't look amazing or anything. Good thing they are both inexpensive.

I have forever been looking for a pair of solid khakis ... I tried Bills M2 in a local shop and it was too baggy on me (not to mention expensive). If I am paying that price for a pair of khakis, I better get something that will last and look the part too.

In my opinion, Buzz Rickson makes the best khakis. Familyman did a great reivew here:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=60331

You don't need to use a proxy or anything anymore, now you can buy directly from the japanese sellers:

The 1942, 1945 models are what you want. If you don't want to go through the hassle of buying from Japan, you can get them from Histroy Preservation Associates:
https://historypreservation.com/hpassociates/buzzrlanding_2.php
pic:

Yes, they are pricey ... but if they are really as solid as in the review above, then I think they are worth it. I am seriously considering buying a pair (from japan though, have a friend there) to check them out in January.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

More details:

Aww, can't post the links directly ... go the rakuten site and search for buzz rickson, you will see the pants on pages 1 and 2 - two with button fly and one with zip fly.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

That Japanese site that you can order direct from looks tres shady...


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

srivats said:


> .
> You don't need to use a proxy or anything anymore, now you can buy directly from the japanese sellers:


Thanks for posting this. Too bad the Yen is kicking butt and taking names these days. Just as a note, you can also find the Toys McCoy Steve Mcqueen khaki on that site. They try to replicate the khakis that the Cooler King wore in the Great Escape. Kind of cheesy and really expensive, but I would like a pair.

I have Bills in M1 and M2 and I like them both. The fabric really is great, though many complain about fraying on the twill; I have not had a problem. Personally, I find that many of my favorite Bills are in non-twill fabrics (poplin, canvas, cords, etc.).

If I feel like a slimmer profile on a given day (I am 5'9", 150, 31W), I wear J.Press khakis. Dressier than Bills, Made in USA by Berle, material not as nice, about $60 on sale now. They are slim across the hips and thigh but also have a comfortable rise (I am not a huge fan of low rise pants). They are too straight-legged for me, but tapering them to 16" cuffs was not major surgery. O'Connells also carries Berle as the house khaki.

Brooks has a good cut on their Clark khakis, but I dislike the non-iron fabric. Others think they do a better job than most non-iron. Someone in the NYC area might want to check out Uniqlo. However, the rise on Uniqlo is ultra low and fabric tends to crepe paper thickness.


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## Toad (Jun 10, 2005)

It's strickly Bills M1P for me.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Rob,

I will give you a counterpoint to the near-uniform praise for Bill's. I'm not claiming they're not damned good pants. In fact, they are very well made. I've had a few pairs in a few different styles. However, they may just be a bit too well made. There's a lot of expensive detailing in 'em and that costs money. The question is whether it's worth it to you. I wear chinos as casual trousers. Often as plain beaters. For me, whatever Land's End has on sale for under $20 does a great job. So, I probably wouldn't go hog wild on Bill's myself.

Now, if you're in a job where khakis are business wear, maybe they're worthwhile. I'm a suit man, so that's not the case for me. If fit is your concern and Bill's babies are the ne plus ultra of chino fit, they might be worthwhile to you. Otherwise, there are a lot of producers of chinos at much lower price points. If one of them fits, wear them in good health.

I hate to give advice potentially prejudicial to a PA company, but there it is.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> That Japanese site that you can order direct from looks tres shady...


It is not shady, I have bought from them before. Hinoya/Ratuken is a very well known site.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

AldenPyle, glad I could be of help ... Are these the JPress khakis you wear?
https://www.jpressonline.com/trousers_casual_detail.php?ix=1


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

srivats said:


> AldenPyle, glad I could be of help ... Are these the JPress khakis you wear?
> https://www.jpressonline.com/trousers_casual_detail.php?ix=1


Yes. Price went up, so maybe a better deal can be had from O'Connells.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

All the khaki pants i've ever owned have lasted about 1 to 2 years, then tear or otherwise become unwearable. So I look for the subtler indicators of quality. 

I buy Bills flat front M2 pants because they hold their shape after dry cleaning for several wearings instead of one; you can wash and dry them yourself, and if you pluck them out of a hot dryer and fold them up, they get very smooth and need no ironing; they're well thought-out and sewn together, so they're easy to alter and repair; and, they age so gracefully - the exact analogue of a well-fading pair of Levis. Besides that, M2s actually fit me well and have unfinished bottoms, so I can cuff 'em. 

Bills don't necessarily last longer than the other khaki pants out there, but they work extremely well during their somewhat limited lifetimes.


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## epfunk (Sep 14, 2006)

i think bills really are the best. love mine. worth what i paid for sure.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

I am a fan of Bills as well. Can't beat the poplin in the summer and the chamois are great to wear to the office with a coat and tie. 

As one other poster mentioned, LE are a great value especially from the overstocks. I picked up a pair for $15 several years ago which have held up well. 

Another option is the Polo GI Chino. I would rate these sligher higher than the Bills regular twill.


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## SCsailor (Jul 2, 2008)

Bills are great, but some models can be on the baggy side. The pair I owned seemed a little highwaisted to me. That said, I thought they were great pants, but I did not like them so much I wanted to shell out another $100 for another pair. I mostly wear J Crew essential chinos. When they're on sale, they're about 40% less than Bills. I think they're a nice pair of khakis.


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## Scrumhalf (Dec 20, 2007)

This may land me in the AAAC hall of shame, but believe it or not, the Cherokee flat front khakis at Target are reasonably slim fitting (I am 5'7", 130lbs, 29" waist). I have a couple of pairs and they have served me reasonably well. Bills they may not be, but at a fourth of the prices, they are worth taking a chance on.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

Bill's Khakis is selling a brand and a lifestyle, not just khakis. They really have an incredibly loyal cult following. My advice would be to buy one pair and see what you think. If you can say "meh, just a nice pair of khakis", then you are not a Bill's kind of guy. Maybe you will put them on and realize what all of us loyal customers have been enjoying for a long while. Also, while I do draw inspiration from more traditional manners of dress, I would definitely not consider myself "trad".


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## dbgrate (Dec 4, 2006)

Been a fan of Bills M2 for several years.Lately,though,it's occured to me that some Polos(Prospect,I believe)that I've bought at Marshall's or Filenes Basement at around $30-$35 are at least as good in material and durability.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm wearing a pair of Orvis, US made Khakis at the moment. One of my all time favorites. They are trim (I'm 6 foot and about 165 lbs), but not at all snug. The rise is good. I got them on the bay for iirc $14. They look quite nice without being fussy.

By the way, I don't think I've worn out a pair of pants (except jeans) since I was about 12. What are you guys doing in them?


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I like Bill's quite a bit. 

When I first bought a pair I was about 20 pounds heavier, so the M1 was great. Now they are just a bit on the ridiculous side (although good with long johns for outdoors in winter).

I have since moved to the M2. I wish the M2P had the forward pleat - I dislike reverse double pleats on chinos, but the long forward one works for me.

I have a gazillion pairs of chinos - I go back and forth on which ones I like. I absolutely do not need another pair for the next five years at least. They all get worn, though.

Bill's are expensive - I can't really experiment too much at the price. Seems to me the way to go, if you have an alterations person handy (I don't), is to buy them unhemmed from STP and take it from there.

Or get inexpensive ones from LE overstocks and the hell with it.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

I'm a Bills fan, but I only buy them from ebay or STP. That way, the price difference from other khakis is not as severe. I have a long rise, so I love the M1 fit. I think they are great pants and won't buy other kinds of khakis. 

Bills are also made in US which I like.


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

I have some pictures of the khakis in various stages of destruction. Seems to be a problem with the twills only. My poplins and cords are immune.

https://www.longsufferingtrad.com/?p=304

The fabric is great while it lasts.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

Longwing - those are interesting, and disturbing, pictures.

I'm not sure what you are doing to your pants, but the only similar experiences I've had were with Gap and even RL khaki's. Even with my cheapest pairs it has taken at least 4-5 years before anything like this has happened.

I have not experienced anything similar with my Bill's and my oldest pair is 3-4 years old.


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## Kingsfield (Nov 15, 2006)

Of the various brands I've tried, I prefer Bills M2 and Brooks Brothers Hudson chinos. Casual, slightly relaxed, but not overly baggy. Just standard issue, guy pants. 

For anything more than a basic sport shirt, sweater and loafers combo, I prefer tan gabs.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Add me to the list of Bills devotees. I love the way they feel when I put them on, like armor to brace me for the day. It's dangerous out there.


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## babycatcher (Apr 6, 2008)

*Bills cuffs*

I used to have the same issue with cuff wear, to some degree on all brands. Then I learned to make sure every garment has all zippers fully zipped before washing, and I also wash trousers 'inside out'.

I think it had a big impact.


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## ss1088 (Mar 30, 2007)

I like them simply because they come with unfinished bottoms.


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## POLOGOLF (May 10, 2005)

I was a Polo Phillips Pant guy until my wife gave me a pair of Bills for Christmas a couple of years ago. I now have 5 pairs in various styles and colors. I wear them everyday for work and have just gotten into Mountain Khakis for the weekends.


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## moss01 (Dec 6, 2008)

I like it, the Bills. Can't go wrong.


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## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

I bought a pair of Bills M2 khakis about a year ago. They are pricey but I like them best of all my khakis. I just ordered another pair as a birthday present for myself.


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## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

p.s. Just ordered M2 khakis at STP, already onsale plus an additional 15% off with the coupon code SPAM99 (really). The price came to about $35 per pair.


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

BK's are fine khaki trousers. I like the construction of the waistband. They are made like a proper trouser, i.e. the waistband has a verticle seem in the back for proper alteration.

If you are on a budget and want Bill's, try STP. Since you are slim, the M3 is the trimest. The M2 is fuller than a pair from Polo. The M1 is like wearing palazzo pants.

I have been wearing Bill's since 1995. I started with the MP1, and worked my way to the M2 over the years. I am 6'1" at 178 lbs. The M3 is too slim for my childbearing hips, and the leg feels quite slim on my skinny legs, too.

Try them, you might be converted. If not, what have you lost? Only a few bucks, yet gained good experience.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

The answer depends on your lifestyle. If your lifestyle and weight aren't fluctuating, buy the Bills. You won't regret it. If you want something less permanent, go with Bean.


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## mattdebord (May 20, 2006)

Superlative khakis. I am on my official fourth pair.

This was the fate of the first pair.

The second pair have pleats and are used for golf, mainly. They have been going strong since 2001.

The third pair was marred by sitting in a student's art project in 2007 and have been relegated to weekend duty.

The fourth pair (bought to replace the art-project-marred pair) are only just fraying and wearing to the degree that they will, in perhaps a year, befall the same fate as the first pair. I'm confident my tailor can get me another 12 months out of them, however.

Look, I'm obviously biased, but they are the finest pants every made by humans--by humans!--and if you can wear them nearly every day for something like eight years, wear out (truly) only one pair, and still have three left over out of four purchased, you have stolen something from the space-time continuum.

I am biased.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

mattdebord said:


> ...The third pair was marred by sitting in a student's art project in 2007 and have been relegated to weekend duty...


LOL! I have to ask, what kind of grade did your student get for that art project? BTW, yours is a great post...has me reconsidering my decision regarding Bill's!


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Just pulled the trigger for a pair on sale at eljos for $78. I've been getting rid of a lot of my stuff with the baby taking up so much space, so I'll have fewer items in my overall closet, but they'll need to be able to last, so I figured these would be a wise investment. Six years sounds about right! So long as I keep running and don't grow along with my daughter!


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Scrumhalf said:


> This may land me in the AAAC hall of shame, but believe it or not, the Cherokee flat front khakis at Target are reasonably slim fitting (I am 5'7", 130lbs, 29" waist). I have a couple of pairs and they have served me reasonably well. Bills they may not be, but at a fourth of the prices, they are worth taking a chance on.


Agreed. I get them on sale for $12. Just be sure you try them on - the sizes are bizarre.


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## mattdebord (May 20, 2006)

Eagle2250:

_LOL! I have to ask, what kind of grade did your student get for that art project? BTW, yours is a great post...has me reconsidering my decision regarding Bill's!

_Not my student--but it was printer's ink, so the damage done was done for good. Actually, I kind of like it. Bills can take anything! Reconsider!


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

I know I sound like a broken record here, but I own about ten pairs of Bills Khakis, with the oldest being 2.5 years old. All are cuffed and all are home laundered, line dried (after 5 mins in the dryer) no starch, and NOT ONE has ever frayed anywhere, not even the cuffs!

Each pair in its season is probably worn 1x weekly. 

Also, I like a very ("AP") minimal break - perhaps it's less friction against the shoe? 

I also wonder if it's some kind of hard water laundry issue?


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## mattdebord (May 20, 2006)

paper clip said:


> I know I sound like a broken record here, but I own about ten pairs of Bills Khakis, with the oldest being 2.5 years old. All are cuffed and all are home laundered, line dried (after 5 mins in the dryer) no starch, and NOT ONE has ever frayed anywhere, not even the cuffs!
> 
> Each pair in its season is probably worn 1x weekly.
> 
> ...


Maybe. I wear my main pair 3-4-sometimes-5x weekly, home launder and DO NOT line dry. Even so, it takes two years for even slight fraying to appear. These are khakis of iron!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

mattdebord said:


> Eagle2250:
> 
> [/I]Not my student--but it was printer's ink, so the damage done was done for good. Actually, I kind of like it. Bills can take anything! Reconsider!





paper clip said:


> I know I sound like a broken record here, but I own about ten pairs of Bills Khakis, with the oldest being 2.5 years old. All are cuffed and all are home laundered, line dried (after 5 mins in the dryer) no starch, and NOT ONE has ever frayed anywhere, not even the cuffs!
> 
> Each pair in its season is probably worn 1x weekly.
> 
> ...


Based on my regard for the opinions of the two quoted posters, one of my New Years resolutions will be to pick up a new pair of Bill's during the month of January!  Are the Bullard Field pants a present day incarnation of the Anniversary Twills they were selling two years back? A second pair of the anniversary twills I picked up, have actually been holding up quite nicely. Based on an earlier recommendation from paper clip, my wife hemmed these just a bit shorter than previous pairs of Bill's. Thanks guys!


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## Ledyard (Aug 30, 2008)

Longwing, that is some major rippage on the khakis after just one year. I'm sure you are an ace on laundering techniques, but I've found the following three tips helpful to keep fabric from premature destruction: 1) make sure all zippers are closed in the laundry, and especially in the dryer -- an open zipper is like a metal file being flung and tumbled around with your cloth investments; 2) lower the heat of the water in the wash; 3) lower the heat signifcantly on the dryer, or eliminate the dryer almost entirely, line-dryhing and using the dryer just to fluff and get the stiffness out.


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