# Khakis, Which are the best ones?



## triumph (May 4, 2014)

So as part of my post AAAC transformation, I'm looking to get myself a nice pair of khakis. Which ones are the best?

I don't want to spend crazy $$ yet, I really like Bills but they are way out of my current budget. Does Bills have discounts at anytime?


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

triumph said:


> So as part of my post AAAC transformation, I'm looking to get myself a nice pair of khakis. Which ones are the best?
> 
> I don't want to spend crazy $$ yet, I really like Bills but they are way out of my current budget. Does Bills have discounts at anytime?


They apparently sell second and folks sell those on eBay constantly.

Where my wife works we get discounts from places like bills and brooks bros on a regular basis and I picked some twill chinos up for 40% off not too long ago.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Bills khakis are the most represented brand of trousers in my closet. I have never paid full retail.

Sierra trading post frequently has them on sale, eBay, and mardens of Maine have all been very good to me for bills khakis.


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## triumph (May 4, 2014)

Great will check the sites and eBay.


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## MythReindeer (Jul 3, 2013)

They're still pricy (less so than Bill's) but I am a fan of Jack Donnelly: jackdonnelly.com

Signing up for e-mails may get you a $10 coupon. Shipping and returns are free, too.


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## FJW (Jan 25, 2012)

The best khakis are the ones that fit you best.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The special edition Bill's, bought on discount, look very good, wear well and are a pretty reasonable value. I have, however, not been overly impressed with Bill's vintage twills...the hems or cuffs seem to fray way too easily and in disappointingly short order. Brooks Brother's Clarkes Advantage chinos, offered in a variety of cloth weights, and designed in different fits to compliment each potential wearers body type, reasonably durable and well priced; seem to keep resurrecting themselves as my first choice in chinos!


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

Bill's chamois cloth. STP regularly has them for les than $50. In a very wide range of colors.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I prefer the fit of my Jack Donnelly's to Bills, but that of course is subjective. I wear the trim fit JDs and the M3 Bills...of the two, the JDs win because of the higher rise. Anyway, I'm not a committed JD buyer. I'll snap up some of their summer weights as soon as they offer them again.


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

My day to day khakis are LLBean Double L's. $40. They last longer than my Brooks Bros Advantage khakis. I've had bad luck with Lands End khakis.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I might have to try those. On the other hand, I wear Lands' End almost exclusively. I find that their traditional fit, creased, no-iron chinos, and the traditional fit dress twills, go well with a lot of things, including sport coats and blazers. I also like that I can order them cuffed and in quarter-inch increments for inseams. They're also offered in a long rise, which I find works particularly well for wearing with jackets and blazers.



CMDC said:


> My day to day khakis are LLBean Double L's. $40. They last longer than my Brooks Bros Advantage khakis. I've had bad luck with Lands End khakis.


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## mankson (Sep 27, 2012)

FJW said:


> The best khakis are the ones that fit you best.


Agreed. I find that there is a lot of variation in rise out there - find the one that works best for you.


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## mankson (Sep 27, 2012)

CMDC said:


> My day to day khakis are LLBean Double L's. $40. They last longer than my Brooks Bros Advantage khakis. I've had bad luck with Lands End khakis.


I also wear the Double Ls day-to-day - decent value. I've tried Lands End multiple times but they never fit me well. I gave up on BB a while ago.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

FJW said:


> The best khakis are the ones that fit you best.


Yes, that.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

mankson said:


> I also wear the Double Ls day-to-day - decent value. I've tried Lands End multiple times but they never fit me well. I gave up on BB a while ago.


Same here, in classic fit. Similar cut to the Bill's M2 but far better value for day to day wear in the office. I'd rather wear these crawling around in the IT closet and wiring chases than much higher priced Bill's.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

And the ones that suit your needs. The word khakis, or chinos, covers a lot of territory.



FJW said:


> The best khakis are the ones that fit you best.


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## triumph (May 4, 2014)

Thanks Gentlemen, LL Bean and Bills from STP are around the same price. I prefer a little snug fit compared to the standard or regular.

Is Bills Trim fit the way to go?


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

I also like to buy Bills on EBay. There are always many NWT Bills on the Bay for under $70. I suppose they are seconds but I have never had a problem with them.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

Bills M3, or slim is pretty slim in my book. I wouldn't wear anything slimmer personally.


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## triumph (May 4, 2014)

meanoldmanning said:


> Bills M3, or slim is pretty slim in my book. I wouldn't wear anything slimmer personally.


Absolutely, I cant wear too slim either. Need a little snug but not like the one that sticks to the skin


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I probably err on the side of too full these days. It's not only comfortable but it also provides a better silhouette, better proportions, with the jackets and sweaters I wear. I find that as long as the break is right, it feels better to go fuller than slimmer.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

That's funny, I've actually gone in the opposite direction, but try to avoid going too slim because being tall, 35ish inseam, it makes me look like I have bird legs.

Triumph, the Bill's M3 also have a shortish rise, so keep that in mind.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm tall also, and that's one advantage I find. Going with wider legged trousers (not huge, mind you, but fuller cut) helps to keep me from looking like I'm all legs.



meanoldmanning said:


> That's funny, I've actually gone in the opposite direction, but try to avoid going too slim because being tall, 35ish inseam, it makes me look like I have bird legs.
> 
> Triumph, the Bill's M3 also have a shortish rise, so keep that in mind.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Let's just set the record straight. Yes Bill's M3's do have a shorter rise than the M1's and M2's, but that does not mean they are short rise, or low-rise or sit on the hip. all 3 pairs of my M3's sit just below my belly button, while m2's sit right at my belly button.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

Dmontez said:


> Let's just set the record straight. Yes Bill's M3's do have a shorter rise than the M1's and M2's, but that does not mean they are short rise, or low-rise or sit on the hip. all 3 pairs of my M3's sit just below my belly button, while m2's sit right at my belly button.


I'm 6'5" I can use all the rise I can get. No way I can pull M2s up to my belly button without moose knuckle.


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## nbj08 (Feb 6, 2015)

So far I've had good luck with LE Tailored Fit chinos. The rise is as high as their Traditional Fit, and the legs are not as form-fitting as their Straight Fit. The waist fits true to size; not vanity. 

Fwiw, I'm 6'2" and 175 lbs., so a bit tall and slim.


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## alkydrinker (Apr 24, 2012)

nbj08 said:


> So far I've had good luck with LE Tailored Fit chinos. The rise is as high as their Traditional Fit, and the legs are not as form-fitting as their Straight Fit. The waist fits true to size; not vanity.
> 
> Fwiw, I'm 6'2" and 175 lbs., so a bit tall and slim.


Yeah, I've been a fan of LE Tailored fit for awhile too.

Regarding them fitting true to size...that seemed to have happened within about the last year - LE pants used to have some vanity sizing to them. I previously always bought 35s in any LE pants, but now need 36 (I haven't gained weight; the old 35s and new 36s have the same waist measurement). Current LE 36s fit like quality wool dress trouser 36s (i.e., waist actually measures 36 inches or just slightly over).

Unfortunately, the current not-non-iron option-the "Lighthouse" chinos-is not offered in Tailored Fit. I tried the straight fit once and did not like it....the rise is too low and they didn't lay well around the crotch for me. BUT, I do find Traditional fit acceptable. They are a little fuller than I prefer, but IMO they have decent shaping and are reasonably flattering, unlike I've found in some other fuller cut pants.

Overall, I find the Lighthouse chinos are decent and worth the reasonable price, but I don't think they are as good as the previous not-non-iron option from a couple years back ("LE Original chinos"). Those had a better fabric and included a french fly. Also, there seems to be something slightly odd about the outside seam on the leg of the Lighthouse pants, which I've suspected is a cost cutting measure. However, I haven't yet studied/compared up close to see what is different about the construction there.

Well, those are my notes on LE chinos.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Duvel said:


> ... I wear Lands' End almost exclusively. I find that their traditional fit, creased, no-iron chinos, and the traditional fit dress twills, go well with a lot of things, including sport coats and blazers.


Non-iron? :surprised:


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Yepp! I love 'em.



gamma68 said:


> Non-iron? :surprised:


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

I recently tried the J Crew Classic Fit "Essential chino" and like them a lot- I wanted to like the Urban Slim Fit, but it was too slim below the knee and fit oddly above the knee.


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## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

I cannot say enough good about Bills. For cotton trouser they are my standard as well. I have yet to wear a pair out.


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## g3org3y (Dec 30, 2014)

Don't overlook Gap. Not the last word in quality but for me I find them a good fit and decent selection. Cheap enough though and still quite durable (I wear them to work regularly).


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Watchman said:


> I cannot say enough good about Bills. For cotton trouser they are my standard as well. I have yet to wear a pair out.


Same here. I could live very happily with Bill's Original Twills in the M1 fit as my only casual trousers. Since discovering Bill's, I have gotten rid of 31 pairs of trousers in little more than a year. The few pairs of non-Bills khakis I have kept are relegated strictly to yard work and such.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

It's interesting that we have all settled on different favorite brands and fits.


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## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

JLibourel said:


> Same here. I could live very happily with Bill's Original Twills in the M1 fit as my only casual trousers. Since discovering Bill's, I have gotten rid of 31 pairs of trousers in little more than a year. The few pairs of non-Bills khakis I have kept are relegated strictly to yard work and such.


I have been waiting for the opportune time to swoop up several more pairs this spring/summer. Last winter I added a couple Bill's Moleskins with excellent results.

I can hear STP calling my name. :cool2:


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## watchnerd (Mar 18, 2015)

g3org3y said:


> Don't overlook Gap. Not the last word in quality but for me I find them a good fit and decent selection. Cheap enough though and still quite durable (I wear them to work regularly).


I stay away from Gap for ethical reasons.


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## ruvort (Mar 11, 2014)

watchnerd said:


> I stay away from Gap for ethical reasons.


Because its considered one of the most ethical?

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

ruvort said:


> Because its considered one of the most ethical?
> 
> Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


Probably because despite their reputation of high ethical standards they repeatedly get caught up in allegations of producing cloths in sweatshops.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Because we should believe that a corporate press release about its own corporation is going to be accurate and truthful?



ruvort said:


> Because its considered one of the most ethical?
> 
> Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## ruvort (Mar 11, 2014)

meanoldmanning said:


> Probably because despite their reputation of high ethical standards they repeatedly get caught up in allegations of producing cloths in sweatshops.


Gotcha. I wouldn't doubt it, but just figured I'd throw in some humor.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## ruvort (Mar 11, 2014)

Duvel said:


> Because we should believe that a corporate press release about its own corporation is going to be accurate and truthful?


That was part of the humor 

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Ah, okay. You're off the hook, then. 



ruvort said:


> That was part of the humor
> 
> Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

Watchman said:


> I have been waiting for the opportune time to swoop up several more pairs this spring/summer. Last winter I added a couple Bill's Moleskins with excellent results.
> 
> You took the words right out of my mouth!


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

" I could live very happily with Bill's Original Twills in the M1 fit as my only casual trousers. "

You took thw words right out of my mouth!


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## alkydrinker (Apr 24, 2012)

I also just tried a pair of Polo Ralph Lauren Classic Fit chinos. I like em, but don't love em. They fit a bit like Bills M3s...the leg has some shaping but not particularly slim and the rise is somewhat low. I have to say that I am a little confused in the PRL description saying these pants "sit at the waist" because they definitely don't. The rise is lower than LE's Traditional and Tailored fits. But, I will say they are flattering around the rise area and butt, and they are well made...good interior detailing and fabric is quite nice. I'm good with incorporating my one pair into my rotation, but probably won't buy anymore due to the rise.

Over at another forum - FNB - there is currently alot of accolades for Orvis Trim Fit. I am tempted to try a pair. I'm also interested in Jack Donnelly, but they seem to have been out of my size (36) for awhile.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

tocqueville said:


> I prefer the fit of my Jack Donnelly's to Bills, but that of course is subjective. I wear the trim fit JDs and the M3 Bills...of the two, the JDs win because of the higher rise. Anyway, I'm not a committed JD buyer. I'll snap up some of their summer weights as soon as they offer them again.


How trim are the trim JDs in comparison to the M3s?


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## sarakali (May 19, 2013)

I found these the other day just browsing the internet. I am really curious to try them out (made in USA, heavy cloth, custom hem, etc.)



Otherwise, Jack Donnelly is my go-to for khakis. They had a black friday sale of 35% off. Paired that with $20 store credit for first-time buyers and got a great bundle of khakis at a good discount. For sizing, get the slim fit but go up one size for a suitable rise.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

alkydrinker said:


> I also just tried a pair of Polo Ralph Lauren Classic Fit chinos. I have to say that I am a little confused in the PRL description saying these pants "sit at the waist" because they definitely don't. The rise is lower than LE's Traditional and Tailored fits.


Copywriters who state that their company's chinos "sit at the waist" generally have no idea what they are talking about.

The rise on the O'Connell's twill chinos will not disappoint. At $99.00 per--which includes hemming--plus a flat shipping charge of $7.00--they are competitively priced relative to Jack Donnelly. They are moderately full-cut--similar to Bills' M2. (But the O'Connell's chinos have a slightly--very slightly--more tapered leg.)


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## Oak City Trad (Aug 2, 2014)

+ 1 on the Jack Donnelly's for me, especially on sale. Original Fit seems roughly equivalent to the M2. Like Duvel, I've been erring on the fuller side with cuff no break and I prefer it. 

I've been tempted to get another pair geared more toward the "chino" end (no cuff, slightly slimmer). The Hybrid Fit seemed great, but a bit snug above the knee. Perhaps sizing up might help.

Also been considering the Plain Front Long Rise LE (gasp!) no-iron chinos for this purpose. Anyone have experience with these? Any fans out there of the other LE chino options?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Yes. I think they're a great option for a slightly dressier chino, and for a fuller rise that works well with jackets. I get mine cuffed.

The LE dress twills in plain front are also very good.



Oak City Trad said:


> + 1 on the Jack Donnelly's for me, especially on sale. Original Fit seems roughly equivalent to the M2. Like Duvel, I've been erring on the fuller side with cuff no break and I prefer it.
> 
> I've been tempted to get another pair geared more toward the "chino" end (no cuff, slightly slimmer). The Hybrid Fit seemed great, but a bit snug above the knee. Perhaps sizing up might help.
> 
> Also been considering the* Plain Front Long Rise LE (gasp!) no-iron chinos for this purpose. Anyone have experience with these? Any fans out there of the other LE chino options?*


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## g3org3y (Dec 30, 2014)

watchnerd said:


> I stay away from Gap for ethical reasons.


I respect your decision. I'm somewhat less discerning/conscientious however (though I thought Gap was supposed to be quite ethical now?).

Bought two pairs today from the Gap Outlet store - £35 in total. Bargain.


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## triumph (May 4, 2014)

Where can one find good deals on Jack Donnelly? 
​


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## MythReindeer (Jul 3, 2013)

triumph said:


> Where can one find good deals on Jack Donnelly?
> ​


You can get a $10 coupon by signing up for their e-mails. Shipping and returns are free, which I guess is a deal of some type.


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## ROI (Aug 1, 2004)

fred johnson said:


> " I could live very happily with Bill's Original Twills in the M1 fit as my only casual trousers. "
> 
> You took thw words right out of my mouth!


etc,,
Same here. I'm devoted to Bills khakis and have a variety of other Bills products (cords, seersucker, etc., and chambray and madras shirts) with which I'm similarly pleased. It's not sophisticated, but it is great knock-around clothing.

On the flip side, there is no chance you will find me in Bills wool flannels or gabardines.


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## Spex (Nov 25, 2012)

I avoid any non-iron like the plague (how does one exactly avoid the plague anyways?), however I picked up a pair of BB Advantage chinos last fall and I must say I love the look and feel of them. With the Corporate Member double-discount this Wednesday, it might be worth looking into a pair.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

I'm not in love with non iron, but I certainly don't hate it and it is becoming increasingly difficult to avoid. What I do dislike about most non iron is that it is not, and I generally at least have to touch up with an iron after the first few washes. I also hate the perma-crease pressed into most non iron pants.


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

ROI said:


> etc,,
> Same here. I'm devoted to Bills khakis and have a variety of other Bills products (cords, seersucker, etc., and chambray and madras shirts) with which I'm similarly pleased. It's not sophisticated, but it is great knock-around clothing.
> 
> On the flip side, there is no chance you will find me in Bills wool flannels or gabardines.


O'Connells or Bills Khakis for me. I have several of both but find the Bills in M2 fit is better. Had some BBs for a while but found them to lack "endurane" - frayed at the bottom of the legs after a couple months. Since I came to hate ironing and I don't like "non-iron" material (a personal thing), I have come to love my dry cleaners...thankfully, they are terrific folks!


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

I have a pair of khakis from Berle and really like them. I need a pant with a short rise and it seem there are very few makers that produce a true short rise. Berle offers a short rise and they seem to be very well made.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

The permacrease actually fits into the trad look. It has historical precedent in permanent press trousers that were popular on campuses in the 1960s, and I think the sharp crease looks especially great with jackets and ties. I have to iron mine, but I don't think that's a bad thing--there's no miracle fiber that is entirely wrinkle-free.



meanoldmanning said:


> I'm not in love with non iron, but I certainly don't hate it and it is becoming increasingly difficult to avoid. What I do dislike about most non iron is that it is not, and I generally at least have to touch up with an iron after the first few washes. I also hate the perma-crease pressed into most non iron pants.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

Duvel said:


> The permacrease actually fits into the trad look. It has historical precedent in permanent press trousers that were popular on campuses in the 1960s, and I think the sharp crease looks especially great with jackets and ties. I have to iron mine, but I don't think that's a bad thing--there's no miracle fiber that is entirely wrinkle-free.


I don't mind creases outright, but have had a few pairs of chinos in the past that in fairly short order, maybe a year at most the edge of the perma crease wore through. It's as though the pressing process that set the crease weakened the fibers.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Oh. Who made them?



meanoldmanning said:


> I don't mind creases outright, but have had a few pairs of chinos in the past that in fairly short order, maybe a year at most the edge of the perma crease wore through. It's as though the pressing process that set the crease weakened the fibers.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

Duvel said:


> Oh. Who made them?


Escapes me as it was maybe five or ten years ago. Not a nicer brand though, maybe Eddie Bauer or lands end. Kind of made me gun shy about perm crease.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I see. I'll have to watch my LEs for that, but they've been holding up well.



meanoldmanning said:


> Escapes me as it was maybe five or ten years ago. Not a nicer brand though, maybe Eddie Bauer or lands end. Kind of made me gun shy about perm crease.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

Oh, and I realizes there's no wrinkle free fabric, I'd rather companies just didn't bother going to the effort of loading the fabric with chemicals if in a few washes you have to at least start touching up with an iron.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I've heard that complaint from others. I find that the LE dress twills, and to some extent their chinos, are less difficult to iron than must-iron chinos. It is true that they need touching up, more and more with each washing, it seems. But I think there's a lasting effect of making them less difficult to iron. I also think that, once ironed, they look sharper, dressier, than must-iron cotton, because they seem to hold the crease and the overall pressing longer over a day's wear.


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## meanoldmanning (Jan 10, 2015)

Duvel said:


> ...I also think that, once ironed, they look sharper, dressier, than must-iron cotton, because they seem to hold the crease and the overall pressing longer over a day's wear.


Absolutely agree with that.


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## Akilae (Jan 10, 2013)

Do people not like Orvis Ultimate Khakis anymore?


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

Akilae said:


> Do people not like Orvis Ultimate Khakis anymore?


I like them a lot, in fact I'm wearing a pair at this very moment. A little heavy weight in this warm weather though.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

mhj said:


> I like [the Orvis Ultimate Khakis] a lot, in fact I'm wearing a pair at this very moment. A little heavy weight in this warm weather though.


This is my view exactly. I have several pair of the Orvis khakis and am pleased with them: well-made with a decent rise. But if you try them, Akilae, the first thing you will notice is that they are appreciably heavier than most other khakis.


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

For what its worth these are the best fitting all around Khakis I have ever worn, sadly no longer available for many years. Full rise, wide leg bordering on baggy, heavy weight cotton, open inside leg seams ironed flat, alterable waste and seat, 1.75" pre cuffed, on-seam pockets, forward pleats; all the features I wanted. This pair is my last, purchased new God knows when and kept untouched, so far. The Siena cut was, for me, Uncle Ralph's best and I have this cut in cords, grey flannels and lightweight wool. The Khakis were about $60 when new. When Ralph discontinued this cut I went directly to Bills M1 flat front. I even begged Ralph Lauren customer service to bring this cut back with less than ideal results; a lot of their Polo Golf pants are in this slightly modified cut and occasionally you can find an odd trouser.


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