# Dressing Trad When No One Else Does



## chicagoguy88 (Oct 20, 2008)

Long time lurker, short time registered user, first time poster. This question is directed to the college-age crowd. Do you find it hard to dress trad when you're in an environment of people who dress nearly the opposite. I am a junior in college go to a private school in Chicago where in the campus demographic is fairly liberal. Aside for a small handful of people, trad (or even just dressing presentable) is nonexistent. Granted this is not isolated to my campus by any mean I realize, but it is very prevalent. (Though whenever people have class at our downtown campus, they dress much better.)

Not to say I stick out like a sore thumb, but I find myself overdressed even when wearing a polo and chinos to class. I also find myself dressing a lot more sloppily (is that a word?) than usual.

So my question is do you find yourself slacking off or not dressing as you usually do on campus?


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

I've found the trick to finding the happy medium between putting others at ease and remaining true to my look is in finding Trad equivalents... the elusive Trad streetwear, maybe. 

For instance, instead of jeans, Chucks, and a hoodie, I'd try some navy 5-pocket cords, a raglan shetland crewneck, and a pair of blucher mocs.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Katon, that outfit sounds great for college trad. I wear my A.P.C.s quite a bit but I think there is a world of difference between dark dry selvage denim in a clean straight cut and light A&F boot cut jeans with holes in them. At Memphis, I would say I even stick out most of the time in my A.P.C.s or cords, blucher mocs, and button-down tattersalls or OCBDs. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked why I was so dressed up. Throw khakis into the mix and you'd think I was wearing a tux to class by the way people react. The warmer months bring questions about why I am wearing button down long sleeve shirts and why my shorts (khaki in various colors) are so short (7 in. inseam). T-shirts and basketball or cargo shorts that come several inches below the knees seem to be the standard college attire around here. I often find myself wondering what it would be like to go to a school where the students actually gave a damn about how they look.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

I don't understand why people who dress in a very casual manner (trying to be polite here) think they have a license to ask us why we are 'dressed up'. It never occurred to me to ask them why they are dressed so poorly.


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

I did 'I stick out like a sore thumb' at uni and even college (remember in Europe college is different to the US college). At one point, someone asked if I worked at a clothes shop and got good discounts. 

My normal look was jeans (sometimes trousers), sweater and shirt/knitted top/shirt with shoes. In spring-summer, polo's; in autumn-winter blazer. I was the posh boy to everyone at uni. 

If you want to dress trad, then dress trad - people will see that you are dressing how you like and not pretending to be something you are not. 

From my experience being dressed the way I was, it helped with the girls :icon_smile_big:. Especially when they figured out that it my normal dress-style rather then trying to be 'cool'.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I have to admit, probably to the detriment of many here, that I pretty much dress in jeans and a t-shirt (with maybe a western shirt here or there) to my classes. The main reason is acting class -- I want to be as comfortable as possible when we do our exercises.


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## chicagoguy88 (Oct 20, 2008)

Memphis88 said:


> Katon, that outfit sounds great for college trad. I wear my A.P.C.s quite a bit but I think there is a world of difference between dark dry selvage denim in a clean straight cut and light A&F boot cut jeans with holes in them. At Memphis, I would say I even stick out most of the time in my A.P.C.s or cords, blucher mocs, and button-down tattersalls or OCBDs. I can't tell you how many times I have been asked why I was so dressed up. Throw khakis into the mix and you'd think I was wearing a tux to class by the way people react. The warmer months bring questions about why I am wearing button down long sleeve shirts and why my shorts (khaki in various colors) are so short (7 in. inseam). T-shirts and basketball or cargo shorts that come several inches below the knees seem to be the standard college attire around here. I often find myself wondering what it would be like to go to a school where the students actually gave a damn about how they look.


I wholeheartedly agree with you. Though the only college I know of with an emphasis on appearance is Hampden Sydney and I'm not sure I could go spend another 4 years without ladies in my class (I went to single sex prep school).


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

chicagoguy88 said:


> ...Not to say I stick out like a sore thumb, but I find myself overdressed even when wearing a polo and chinos to class. I also find myself dressing a lot more sloppily (is that a word?) than usual.
> 
> So my question is do you find yourself slacking off or not dressing as you usually do on campus?


I'm not sure it is really possible to be too overdressed, wearing a polo and chinos but regardless, you will be much happier, if your actions are congruent with your beliefs. Much of my life, I have dressed a bit differently (much more conservatively) than those about me...and have endured occasional chiding as a result. Attending college back in the late 60's, I was wearing chinos and OCBD's while the , so called, "Flower Children" dressed in their floral embossed T's and grime encrusted, sometimes urine soaked, jeans. While the flower children were out expanding their minds with chemicals, I was in the library broadening my mind through books. After graduation, as the flower children set off on life journeys of self discovery, I donned a uniform and set off to "do the peoples business" and while there were moments when I found myself questioning that decision, those years have proven to be a defining period of my life and a period in which I harbor a bit of (justifiable?) pride. During off-duty periods and when home on leave, I could still be found wearing chinos and OCBD's (and penny loafers or Topsiders!)..."and the beat goes on!"

These days, twice retired, I am still to be found wearing my chinos, OCBD's penny loafers or wingtips and, when the wife and I go out to dinner, I don a coat and tie (most often a navy blazer or a Tweed, depending on the time of year). When we attended a 40th class reunion, not so long ago, the comment most frequently heard by us was, "gosh you haven't changed a bit!" Be true to yourself...live a congruent life...it's goood!


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## suitsyousir (Aug 8, 2008)

I advise you to use college to experiment and mix up trad with whatever fits your fancy. Those little touches will make you unique, rather than slavishly following trad clichés. If you want any luck with girls other than Henrietta Horseface, avoid the Tucker Carlson look since that comes with a certain air that says "twat!". That's more of an attitude than a look, though. If you look like you're making a huge effort or like you're taking yourself seriously then, no, you won't be Mr. Popular.


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## Prepdad (Mar 10, 2005)

I completely agree with what Eagle said. Relax and enjoy your own way of thinking and dressing.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

First of all, I'm a freshman in college. I do relax my style and dress when I'm at school. For instance, I do _not_ wear a tie, I wear jeans, although they are nice looking jeans, and I do not wear a sportcoat or blazer. Those three things are frankly the only two things I change. I still wear a collared shirt everyday, during winter I always have a sweater on, and I always wear _dress_ shoes. I wear a coat throughout the day for going in and out from my car to the building. I would never relax my style so far as to wear a screen t and tattered jeans, because I've never dressed like that so it's just not me. I wear what I like, and no one can change that.


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## logicalfrank (Oct 16, 2008)

The fact of the matter is if you want to wear nicer clothes than the people you associate w/ throughout the day, you are always gonna stick out as that guy who dresses nicely. That's not really a bad thing. To answer your question though, in college I was one of those people in jeans and a t-shirt all the time. That was how I wanted to dress. You should dress how you want to dress.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> I'm not sure it is really possible to be too overdressed, wearing a polo and chinos but regardless, you will be much happier, if your actions are congruent with your beliefs. Much of my life, I have dressed a bit differently (much more conservatively) than those about me...and have endured occasional chiding as a result. Attending college back in the late 60's, I was wearing chinos and OCBD's while the , so called, "Flower Children" dressed in their floral embossed T's and grime encrusted, sometimes urine soaked, jeans. While the flower children were out expanding their minds with chemicals, I was in the library broadening my mind through books. After graduation, as the flower children set off on life journeys of self discovery, I donned a uniform and set off to "do the peoples business" and while there were moments when I found myself questioning that decision, those years have proven to be a defining period of my life and a period in which I harbor a bit of (justifiable?) pride. During off-duty periods and when home on leave, I could still be found wearing chinos and OCBD's (and penny loafers or Topsiders!)..."and the beat goes on!"
> 
> These days, twice retired, I am still to be found wearing my chinos, OCBD's penny loafers or wingtips and, when the wife and I go out to dinner, I don a coat and tie (most often a navy blazer or a Tweed, depending on the time of year). When we attended a 40th class reunion, not so long ago, the comment most frequently heard by us was, "gosh you haven't changed a bit!" Be true to yourself...live a congruent life...it's goood!


Eagle,
Very well stated! I totally agree. We have the advantage of experience


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## pt10023 (Jan 14, 2008)

On the first day of orientation when I was in law school, I came out of my bedroom wearing button-down shirt, chinos and plain-toe bluchers. My suite mate then came out of his bedroom wearing, if I recall correctly, a t-shirt, shorts and sandals. He took one look at me and said, "crap, are we required to get dressed up for this?" I was confused for a second, and then, realizing what he was talking about, responded, "I don't think so. This is just how I dress."


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

I'm familiar with all of this. In a way, since virtually every kind of clothing beyond tank tops and flip-flops is "all dressed up", you might as well shoot the moon and do whatever you want. I've never regretted it. 

I will say I've noticed (in midtown Manhattan) a definite upsurge in dressing. People are wearing nicer stuff.


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## JordanW (Jan 8, 2007)

katon said:


> For instance, instead of jeans, Chucks, and a hoodie, I'd try some *navy 5-pocket cords*, a raglan shetland crewneck, and a pair of blucher mocs.


I would advise against these unless, of course, you are trying to fit into the college crowd.

However, if it feels unnatural and uncomfortable sporting the traditional look around those that don't, it may not be the look for you.

Good luck.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

Welcome to the forum!

I am in college also and find myself questioning my dress sometimes, as I want to look nice but not come off as trying to be better than everyone else. I've found that one good look is to wear an OCBD, jeans, and original sperrys (think 80's) Being at a somewhat southern school, this look is fairly common, but I wore it today and still got the 'why are you all dressed up' response from one classmate. But whatever. For some varition on the above: Roll the sleeves or wear a polo when it's hot and add a sweater when cold. Swap the jeans for khakis and the sperrys for new balance 992s or wallabees. These are the kinds of things I typically wear to class and I think it looks good without being over the top.



Michael


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

chicagoguy88 said:


> So my question is do you find yourself slacking off or not dressing as you usually do on campus?


The longer I'm away from home (DC) the sloppier my daily outfits get. However, this really only refers to what I wear to class and on weekends- not what I put on for various events and activities. A bigger part of that is I am often told I'm too dressed up for whatever 'we' may be doing... and that a tshirt and jeans/chinos would make others more comfortable.

However, if a tshirt can be preppy- I think its possible- i.e. pocketed or small left breast logo from that restaurant down in Nagshead, NC with a simple design on the back... jeans, a surcingle, and boatshoes, I find that I never stray too far from a "more" acceptable college wardrobe... albeit not an ideal one.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

*College Dress*

Honestly speaking guys...he's the drill...

Many kids in college couldn't afford to dress like you do. When I was in college I had two pair of $60 on sale Abercrombie & Fitch Jeans, a bunch (8 or 9) Abercrombie & Fitch Tee Shirts, a few Man City shirts, 2 A&F sweaters, one pair of sneakers, and one pair of "shoes". I also had one cheap-o JCPenny's suit for when it was necessary. I didn't have mom and dad pay for my bills and tuition, so I worked to earn what i could. With that I bought what I felt was most practical at the time.

I admire the fact that you like to dress well at such a young age, and am glad you have the means to (maybe even a bit jealous), but don't look down your nose on "sloppy" dressers because as in my case, it was simply a matter of pragmatics...if thats a word.

I say dress how you want, and if people ask, tell them thats what you like, but by all means try not to make them feel bad for not sharing your satorial opinions or your personal wealth.


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## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> Honestly speaking guys...he's the drill...
> 
> Many kids in college couldn't afford to dress like you do. When I was in college I had two pair of $60 on sale Abercrombie & Fitch Jeans, a bunch (8 or 9) Abercrombie & Fitch Tee Shirts, a few Man City shirts, 2 A&F sweaters, one pair of sneakers, and one pair of "shoes". I also had one cheap-o JCPenny's suit for when it was necessary. I didn't have mom and dad pay for my bills and tuition, so I worked to earn what i could. With that I bought what I felt was most practical at the time.
> 
> ...


I don't know if I agree. I dressed much like I do now when I was in college and I had very little money. Back then I got most of my clothes from hand-me-downs from my brother and dad, and from browsing at Salvation Army. Combine that with the fact that a lot of young people in college who aren't dressing trad aren't necessarily dressing inexpensively. A pair of designer jeans alone probably cost more than what I wear on any given day now.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I have a lot of clothing, just ask my friends...or my parents for that matter. But I do not spend great amounts on it, I get the majority of my items on deep sale. Also, I'm not embarrassed to say that I shop at Goodwill and the Salvation Army for clothing. I try to stay away from the trendy, logo laden brands who charge an arm and leg for everything. I will admit my parents, and grandparents pay for my tuition, but they started a college fund when I was a baby. I genuinely appreciate their contribution, and I never take it for granted.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

Darn good post, Eagle.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

chicagoguy88 said:


> Long time lurker, short time registered user, first time poster. This question is directed to the college-age crowd. Do you find it hard to dress trad when you're in an environment of people who dress nearly the opposite. I am a junior in college go to a private school in Chicago where in the campus demographic is fairly liberal. Aside for a small handful of people, trad (or even just dressing presentable) is nonexistent. Granted this is not isolated to my campus by any mean I realize, but it is very prevalent. (Though whenever people have class at our downtown campus, they dress much better.)
> 
> Not to say I stick out like a sore thumb, but I find myself overdressed even when wearing a polo and chinos to class. I also find myself dressing a lot more sloppily (is that a word?) than usual.
> 
> So my question is do you find yourself slacking off or not dressing as you usually do on campus?


I'm 27 and attend a local state university studying accounting. I also sell suits for a living and have for several years. I wear a suit to school because I go straight to work after class, and yes, I get a lot of weird looks. I don't care because I have no choice in the matter. I'm not too concerned what the dreadlocked, t-shirted crowd thinks about my dress code, and besides I avoid the Liberal Arts building as much as possible.:icon_smile:

One bonus is I'm often confused for a professor and get the discount at the campus food shops (especially now that I carry my new Custom Hide leather briefcase).


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> Many kids in college couldn't afford to dress like you do. When I was in college I had two pair of $60 on sale Abercrombie & Fitch Jeans, a bunch (8 or 9) Abercrombie & Fitch Tee Shirts, a few Man City shirts, 2 A&F sweaters, one pair of sneakers, and one pair of "shoes". I also had one cheap-o JCPenny's suit for when it was necessary. I didn't have mom and dad pay for my bills and tuition, so I worked to earn what i could. With that I bought what I felt was most practical at the time.


You could spend that same money on trousers, chinos, shirts, polo t-shirts, rotation of two shoes and a few sweaters.

Plus, I saw people wear designer clothes and still look sloppy; this includes the rich Thai students who would spend £60 on flip-flops. Then there were the guys who spend as much on hair gel and cosmetics as they would their clothes, and spend 15 minutes each morning doing their just-out-of-bed look.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

chicagoguy88 said:


> This question is directed to the college-age crowd. Do you find it hard to dress trad when you're in an environment of people who dress nearly the opposite.


Yes

Though I do agree with Jim (in sunny so cal), it's a terrible attitude to take.
Unless you're confidant and comfortable enough to pull of a non-conformist style, you're going to stick out a bit.


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## Air King (Dec 17, 2007)

Although it goes against the spirit of trad, I find that mixing "high" and "low" pieces helps soften the overall look. If I wear an OCBD, I'll usually wear jeans and roll the sleeves up. Tucking it in with proper trousers and a belt is just too far for me. Recently I've gotten to wearing a Shetland sweater, OCBD and cords with some nice Red Wing-style boots (or Timberlands) along with a camel hair polo coat and I've gotten lots of comments along the lines of "you're so dapper", mostly from women. They LOVE to touch interesting fabrics, be it the shetland, the polo coat or my flannel work shirt (I had an 8am class and it was below 0, sue me).


It's funny that in this day and age where some "fashion" is absolutely absurd, people look at the trad style as if it were from Mars. I certainly don't adhere to it rigidly, but I like the simplicity, timelessness and emphasis on quality it brings. Others definetly recognize it. The key is easing into it to make it your own.

Oddly enough I find that people are far more receptive to the "summer" trap look of Bulchers, a nice pair of shorts and a polo or OCBD than the fall/winter look which is percieved as "nerdy".


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Just from my own experience, when i was in college I was able to buy all the clothing I needed for about $500. Granted, I didn't really know enough about dressing to do it right, but for me, jeans, tee shirts and sneakers were practical, comfy, and situationally appropriate. Not that Trad isn't, its great, but can come across as being over dressed in many college classrooms.

Having said that, if you got it (the knowledge and the means) then go for it! I guess my last post came across as a bit negative...didn't really mean it that way. Keep looking good, and when people ask you why you're so dressed up, just tell them, because I like it. I still tell people that today, and I'm an ancient 31.:aportnoy:


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

As someone on the other side of the lecturn, I am unbiased, unaffected by personal sartorial decisions--at least on paper. Of course I notice which students are dressed like children (my students average c. 30 years of age), which communicate that they are part of a team vs rampant individuals (note that I am not decrying individualism per se), and which show respect for themselves, the event and the larger agenda of the institution. While this doesn't help students at exam time, I suspect it does subliminally influence the way I respond to them both in lectures and in private communication. This just might in turn help them at exam time. I'm not saying that dressing better will lead to better grades, but there might be a loose correlation between self-presentation and the learning process.

A few years ago a professor wrote an article in the Journal of Higher Education about his "year of dressing better" and suggested that what he wore did indeed affect his relationships with students. My guess is that it would be a two-way street.

Moreover, my institution tends to draw from the solidly upper middle class, but I have not noticed a correlation between wealth and dress sense. Anyone can do more with less if so inclined. Don't let cost be an excuse.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Just waiting for that perfect pair of tapered khakis. Then I may start injecting more "trad" into my daily wardrobe.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Here we're always walking a fine line between aficionados and snobs.
I like 'dressing up', I wish we were a dressier, more formal culture, but I try not to get any more focused with my views than that. 
Doing so would isolate you, and shrink the pool of friends and acquaintances exponentially.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Jovan said:


> Just waiting for that perfect pair of tapered khakis. Then I may start injecting more "trad" into my daily wardrobe.


Me too ... waiting for that perfect pair. Haven't tried Bills yet though, somehow seems expensive.


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## dandypauper (Jun 10, 2007)

Is there a Nation of Islam group on campus? You could hang out with them if you're a bowtie wearer. And what about the Shriners? Don't they wear glen plaid?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

That's funny, on the TV show _Weeds_ a Nation of Islam member wore a bow tie. I didn't know so many members wore them. Is it almost a uniform, like the white short sleeves and black tie/trousers of Mormons?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

mcarthur said:


> Eagle,
> Very well stated! I totally agree. We have the advantage of experience


Mac, Prepdad and Beefeater:

Thanks for the feedback...it's always nice. As to the the advantages of experience, I may be getting just a bit too much of it. Much of my grey hair is gone and over this past Christmas season one of the Grand kids observed, "Papa, your hair looks just like Santa's"...the darn stuff seems to be turning white, rapidly!


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## ComboOrgan (Aug 28, 2006)

I think people are far less concerned with the way we dress than some of the above posters assume.

I wear OCBDs and slacks to school most days, and I don't think anyone thinks twice about it. People are too busy worrying about their own issues to bother thinking about why we wear slacks.


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

I wear OCBD's with chinos or cords to class. Weejuns and boatshoes as well but I've started wearing captoes and wingtips. 

I even wore a cord jacket to class one time.


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## anselmo1 (Dec 22, 2006)

Back in the late 1960's when I went to college, a group of us that went to Prep school would wear saddle shoes, khaki's, baracuta jackets, and cashmere or Alan Paine tennis sweaters to class. Many of the campus radicals thought we were undercover agents for the FBI. One guy actually asked me in my history class and I replied that if I went undercover, I would dress exactly like him.


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## EJS (Sep 16, 2008)

I'd be willing to bet that many of the people on this forum have been asked more than once why we're so "dressed up." Even in college (which, admittedly, was...ahem...a few years ago), instead of t-shirts and worn jeans, I wore collared shirts and chinos (or at least jeans that weren't torn). But that was my style. I felt more comfortable and, frankly, more confident that way. I didn't judge anyone else for their style, and for all the "why are you so dressed up" comments I got from the guys, I probably got an equal number of "it's nice to see someone dressed up" comments from girls. Which is still ironic in that I didn't think I was dressed up all that often in the first place - just comfortable. 

My advice is that if you're comfortable and confident wearing a certain style of clothing, by all means, dress that way and forget about what others may ask you. If you're not, then experiment a bit and adopt a style that fits your personality.


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## NCJackson (Dec 19, 2008)

I just wanted to say how sad it is that people consider a shirt and shoes "dressing up." I'm not trad. I'm a 26 year old rock 'n' roll guy. College isn't (supposed to be) high school, if you feel socially ostracized by people for wearing a f***in' oxford shirt and some clean sneakers, don't let it bother you, these aren't the people you want to hang with anyway. I also think when people ask: "Why are you so dressed up?" it's less a criticism of you than a statement of their insecurity with their own clothes. As far as the cost and practicality of "trad" for a college kid, you could buy about five pairs of chinos at the Salvation Army for the price of one pair of flip flops from A&F.


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

Being on a college campus almost every day, it is easy to describe the usual apparel as cargo shorts, t shirt, and flip flops. Many of these students have a bunch of money, but it is probably peer pressure that makes the Army surplus store, the go to place for clothing.

It's about 15F here today. I'll be on the campus in a couple of hours, and can guarantee that there will be a fair number of students in shorts, flip flops, and a t shirt with something tasteful on the front like "Yale Su..s"

As has been demonstrated here, many find tasteful clothing at thrift shops.

The only problem that comes from ignoring how you dress in college is that most people move on to other endeavors.

My observation is that when students try to move from the campus to other parts of the world, they have no idea how to be well dressed, as defined by many in the business world, or where ever the next stop along the way is.

It would be great if students getting ready to leave the campus could spend the last semester reading a MB like this one, or others. They don't, and the stuff they usually come up with doesn't work well together, and doesn't fit.

For those that think that it doesn't matter, it all depends on your ability, at some point, you have to get in the door, and get people to take you seriously.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

That is true, and why I think it's a shame more clubs here don't have functions which require business dress. It's a good way to introduce young people to it earlier.

I sympathise with EJS. I get that comment a lot from guys when I simply wear a sport coat with a tucked in shirt, sweater, and jeans.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> Attending college back in the late 60's, I was wearing chinos and OCBD's while the , so called, "Flower Children" dressed in their floral embossed T's and grime encrusted, sometimes urine soaked, jeans. While the flower children were out expanding their minds with chemicals, I was in the library broadening my mind through books.


Well bully for you.

That's one of the problems with dressing _trad,_ it apparently can soak through to the mind and you wind up making statements like the above.

Being the same age as you and being, back in school, as conservative as you, I am thankful to those 'flower children' who had more guts than I did then and massed and marched ceaselessly and finally brought to an end one of the most disgraceful periods in American military history, not to mention the 50,000+ American dead. Yeah they dressed oddly, but they're somewhat heroic to me.​


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Peak and Pine, give it a rest already with your caustic comments. At least he's not cracking jokes about beating up "hippie protestors" like one moderator on a certain board was fond of.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

anselmo1 said:


> baracuta jackets.


Just got a navy baracuta last week. I can't wait to start wearing it. Unfortunately, it along with blucher mocs was just listed over on men.style.com as part of the 12 looks that will be big in '09. I'm hoping they don't catch on too much as I would just as soon not look like every other guy in his 20's.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I just listened to a guy from a payroll company pitch to a town board of education.

Describing his company as "incredibly conservative," he said that during three weeks of training the new hires had to wear coats and ties at all times. (He didn't say what the women had to wear.)

He wasn't Tradly at all — a dept. store suit, too big, sleeves too long, and crummy shoes — but I found his remarks interesting — far more interesting, in fact, than his pitch. 

I was pretty Bohemian in my dress coming out of school in 1984 but at least I knew enough to have a blazer, bd, decent tie and slacks handy for interviews. I wonder how many kids are today?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Peak and Pine said:


> Well bully for you.
> 
> That's one of the problems with dressing _trad,_ it apparently can soak through to the mind and you wind up making statements like the above.
> 
> Being the same age as you and being, back in school, as conservative as you, I am thankful to those 'flower children' who had more guts than I did then and massed and marched ceaselessly and finally brought to an end one of the most disgraceful periods in American military history, not to mention the 50,000+ American dead. Yeah they dressed oddly, but they're somewhat heroic to me.​


Peak, that was pretty nasty. I know Eagle and he is no storm trooper. He is a decent man with a good heart.


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## ConservativeFellow (Dec 27, 2008)

I was an undergraduate not so long ago and let me just say this.
If someone asks you: why you are "dressed up" there a few things at work here. 

First and most importantly they are insecure in what they are wearing. Or you are simply not "dressed right"

Now, an elegant man does not dress up or down there are just simply levels or formality and you should adhere to these. You do not show up to class in black tie and it is pushing the boundary of "being at harmony with the environment" in formal worsted navy and gray business suits (unless you are a pursing a graduate degree. (A proper fitting Flannel suit in the winter or Khaki poplin in the summer are fine though for undergraduates)

To class, it is 100% acceptable, appropriate, and respectable, to wear a tie and button down collar shirt tucked in with a pair of khakis or flannels. During hot weather going sans jacket and during the winter a Harris Tweed is 100% acceptable and respectable. You are not dressed up, you are just simply dressed to go to class, for school, to learn, and become a man that demands respect. 

All this is contingent and will only come natural IF your clothing fits you, you are confident, and consistent - in your thoughts,dress, and other actions. It is no use wearing a tie 1 or 2 times a week then going with cargo shorts and a hoodie or jeans and a t-shirt the rest. Either you dress well or don't. This also doesn't mean changing into a hoodie or t-shirt at the end of the day. once again, You dress well or you don't. 

Of course if you have some je ne sais quoi you could get away with much more. but you have to break into it with the basics ...


If you follow the above, you will perhaps get asked why you are dressed up maybe between 5 times throughout your 4 year undergraduate degree.

And finally if in response to "why are you dressed up". Grin, lift your nose up and take a look at their shoes, baseball cap, or "pre-ripped" clothing :teacha:


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

Peak and Pine said:


> Well bully for you.
> 
> That's one of the problems with dressing _trad,_ it apparently can soak through to the mind and you wind up making statements like the above.
> 
> Being the same age as you and being, back in school, as conservative as you, I am thankful to those 'flower children' who had more guts than I did then and massed and marched ceaselessly and finally brought to an end one of the most disgraceful periods in American military history, not to mention the 50,000+ American dead. Yeah they dressed oddly, but they're somewhat heroic to me.​


Give me a break.

Eagle said nothing about war protestors - he is decorous and intelligent enough not to bring politics into a clothing discussion.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

ConservativeFellow said:


> Grin, lift your nose up and take a look at their shoes, baseball cap, or "pre-ripped" clothing :teacha:


Turning up your nose at someone is never a good thing. Wearing better clothes than someone else may make you a better dresser than them, but it does _NOT_ a better person than them. In fact, if you are in the habit of looking down on others, especially over something as petty as clothes (we all love them, but in the grand scheme of things they just aren't that important), then I would venture to say you are likely a worse person.


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## ConservativeFellow (Dec 27, 2008)

Listen, a person attending a lecture in colored street shoes, ripped jeans, baseball caps (especially those rap ones), t-shirts that say fowl messages, sweats, and pajamas deserve no respect at all. Now, I am saying this as regards to America. Obviously it doesn't apply to those in 3rd world countries who simply can not afford to spent their time a) thinking about clothes or b) affording-as-such. I'd rather let's not play Mr. politically correct. And I will reserve my right to tilt back my head to those wearing pants to expose their underwear and other such displays of affection. :teacha:

edit. if my neighbor is in a $50 suit and tie from jos.a.bank that fit, and I'm in a $15k bespoke piece, there would be not the slightest bit of supremacy my friend. You misunderstand my point.


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

ConservativeFellow said:


> t-shirts that say fowl messages


Hold on now.


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## ds23pallas (Aug 22, 2006)

ConservativeFellow said:


> t-shirts that say fowl messages





Duck said:


> Hold on now.


Oh oh, now you've gone and ruffled Duck's feathers...


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

This is an interesting thread. I find it nicely curious that the radicals of today on college campuses are wearing Trad clothing and apparently get guff for being "overdressed," looking "nice" or even wearing clothing that apparently has seen a iron with good results.

I find myself having to spend a lot of time in Hollywood dealing with various types of younger, college-age people in "the business." Invariably the ones who are rich enough not to have to work or care about anyone else's opinion are, to put it mildly, slovenly. But those that rely on a good impression for their future success almost always dress in accord with general ideas about a good appearance, meaning at least a blazer if not a suit unless they are sporting a particular fashion meant to land a part or a gig.

Having spent some time on the UCLA campus recently I was pleasantly surprised to see so many groups of people dressing very differently, although the flip flop brigade obviously dominated and not just because the weather is usually pretty nice.


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## jwmnbl987 (Apr 3, 2007)

I do not really understand this thread. "Dressing up" =/= "trad", even if said clothes are trad in nature. All this talk of wearing blazers to class. What's wrong with khakis/khaki shorts, boat shoes and a polo? Is that really "dressing up" at these universities? It's not at mine, not by a long shot. Part of dressing well is dressing appropriately. Wearing a blazer, slacks, and tie to class is not appropriate. This is the difference between playing dress up and wearing clothes you just happen to like.


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## NCJackson (Dec 19, 2008)

We're not talking button down and khakis vs. suit and tie. We're talking button down and khakis vs. sweatpants and flip flops. A sportcoat and necktie is inappropriate in a college classroom? Really? I don't think anyone is saying you_ have to_ wear a coat and tie to class, but a shirt and shoes would be nice.
I would think anything from sportcoats and neckties to T shirts and jeans with sneakers are appropriate in a casual public setting, but sweatpants and flip flops are pajamas.


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## Andy S. (Mar 27, 2007)

I'll throw in my thoughts on this issue:

I'm a college kid as well, and while I love my BB suits, Aldens, and the other staples I learned of on this forum, I don't make the effort to wear them often. I'll throw on my blazer in the spring/early fall as it's comfy and perfect for the warmth I need, plus it adds a nice touch. But otherwise, a beater OCBD, for example, is about as dressy as I get on campus. Regardless, I still get the "Why are you dressed up?" comment a lot, but I take it as a compliment. I wear what I want and I enjoy it.

Trust me, I would LOVE to don suits, sport coats, etc. more often, but there is a line here that you can cross to where it's excessive. However, I'll argue that if you show the confidence to pull it off, you won't get grief with a blazer/khakis/loafers wardrobe on a daily basis.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

NCJackson said:


> We're not talking button down and khakis vs. suit and tie. We're talking button down and khakis vs. sweatpants and flip flops. A sportcoat and necktie is inappropriate in a college classroom? Really? I don't think anyone is saying you_ have to_ wear a coat and tie to class, but a shirt and shoes would be nice.
> I would think anything from sportcoats and neckties to T shirts and jeans with sneakers are appropriate in a casual public setting, but sweatpants and flip flops are pajamas.


Honestly, it all depends on one's classmates. It's easy to forget that levels of formality aren't entirely location-specific... often they're group-specific. The idea behind levels of formality is that the sort of clothes that make people feel most at ease varies depending on the sort of people you're interacting with. Less formal doesn't necessarily mean less appropriate. The challenge is that most of the folks here tend to fall on the "more formal" end of the spectrum, and have trouble finding clothes that are informal enough to be appropriate in places full of very informal people, but formal enough for them to personally be comfortable wearing them.


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## ConservativeFellow (Dec 27, 2008)

As it so happens, at least 3 years ago at uva... I don't know how much has changed since then?? Me and my friends on the parliamentary debate team wore tweed jackets and ties to class from november to the end of february. A lot of our professors sported paisley bow ties and other respectable attire. 
I wasn't aware it's inappropriate to wear a coat and tie to lecture, thank you for the update...... do "bathing apes" and hoodies work better in front of your 50 and 60 yr old professors of law, history, and philosophy?


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## Air King (Dec 17, 2007)

ConservativeFellow said:


> As it so happens, at least 3 years ago at uva... I don't know how much has changed since then?? Me and my friends on the parliamentary debate team wore tweed jackets and ties to class from november to the end of february. A lot of our professors sported paisley bow ties and other respectable attire.
> I wasn't aware it's inappropriate to wear a coat and tie to lecture, thank you for the update...... do "bathing apes" and hoodies work better in front of your 50 and 60 yr old professors of law, history, and philosophy?


At my school, which prides itself on being a "working class city school" (as one TA proudly described it) the profs are usually dressed worse than the students. I assumed this was a trend on most campuses.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Well, today was my first day of class. My girlfriend's professor was wearing shorts. I'm not one of those that thinks a teacher or grown man should never wear shorts, but I do think that they should never be worn in January unless you are in the southern regions of California or Florida. It's also happens to be 20 degrees here and the Weather Channel says it feels like 9 degrees. My only class today was a leadership communications class that is a requirement for my leadership scholarship. A guy in my class decided it would be appropriate to wear his fraternity athletic jersey, which is just a t-shirt with the fraternity's letters on the front and a nickname and number on the back. His number was 69 and nickname was a combination of his first and last names. I won't put his whole name on here, but I will say his first name starts with a T and his last name is Watts. You guys are a smart bunch so I'm sure you can figure out what the back read. Needless to say, I was shocked that someone would not only have a shirt with that on it, but also wear the shirt in public. I think it also speaks to the quality of fraternities at my school.


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

I often wore a sportcoat and tie to classes, and would sometimes be mistaken for faculty. I didn't even dress particularly trad at the time, but I doubt it mattered very much. Most of the people attending or employed by the college that I attended don't seem to distinguish different levels of formality between a person in a 3-piece suit, and somebody who's wearing a tie. I cheekily wore a db jacket with torn jeans one day, and was still asked why I was "dressed up." Several professors of mine would arrive wearing T-shirts and jeans every day. The only people I saw wearing suits with regularity were in the school of business, and often with cheap blocky shoes.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

It seems that dressing up in school has a larger social connotation than an adult workplace (whatever that may mean).

I didn't have to think about fashion until college and my experience was generally that people dressed carelessly at best, but didn't seem to notice when I wore a suit to class or whatever else. On the other hand, I didn't really socialize much in college, so I suppose I also avoided a lot of the social stigma that comes from dressing differently, be it a blazer or a burka.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

My $.02 for what it is worth: It isn't about spending money. You can pick up some chinos at target and ocbds at Old Navy and upgrade as you can afford it. Use thrift stores and Ebay. Get a couple of striped ties. You needn't stand out, either. Minimize the GTH. In a casual settings, a grey sweatshirt, tan chinos, and blue Jack Purcells is a good look. You don't need to spend more than $30 on any of these items. Good luck.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Peak and Pine said:


> Well bully for you.
> 
> That's one of the problems with dressing _trad,_ it apparently can soak through to the mind and you wind up making statements like the above.
> 
> Being the same age as you and being, back in school, as conservative as you, I am thankful to those 'flower children' who had more guts than I did then and massed and marched ceaselessly and finally brought to an end one of the most disgraceful periods in American military history, not to mention the 50,000+ American dead. Yeah they dressed oddly, but they're somewhat heroic to me.​


Peak and Pine: While I'm mildly concerned with the selectivity of your quotation from my post, I commend you on your expression of civic appreciation for one of the less well dressed segments of our university populations back in the 60's and for your concern for the many brave young men and women whose lives were sacrificed on the alter of human stupidity. I do hope you are equally concerned for the more than 61,000 innocent victims who die annually at the hands of those who all too frequently and arrogantly chose to operate motor vehicles, while their minds are impaired by chemicals and excess alcohol (very reminiscent of the inclinations of those you have declared so heroic!).

...and keeping things sartorial, I would argue that your conclusion as to the actual impact of the acts of those "flower children of the 60's", is a bit overstated. I think instead, the faces and voices of all those 'ever so Tradly dressed' newsmen, wearing well tailored suits and rep strippe ties and bringing the face of war into our living rooms on a daily basis, had a much greater impact. Very few of us are able to witness, with any degree of comfort, the true impact of our flawed judgement.

Now if you find it necessary to continue this...take your thoughts to the interchange!

PS: My apologies to other members of these fora for this (I think) necessary distraction.


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## Jack1425 (Sep 19, 2008)

Eagle.. Well said, and than you..


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## NCJackson (Dec 19, 2008)

I got to agree with Eagle too.

If you look beyond the media caricatures the 1960s, you'll see most of the kids marching for peace or civil rights were dressed in a style that people around here now call "trad." Not that there's anything wrong with the kids that did dress like flower children. For the record I'm an aging punk rock guy that wears plaid shirts, Levi's, and canvas sneakers as a uniform day in and day out. I look like the fifth guy in CCR. I'm just saying people shouldn't feel weird for wearing a blazer and necktie to a college class. No one should care, the neat guys or the slobs.


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## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

If someone asks you why you're "so dressed up," simply say that you're not dressed up, you're grown up.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> Peak and Pine: While I'm mildly concerned with the selectivity of your quotation from my post, I commend you on your expression of civic appreciation for one of the less well dressed segments of our university populations back in the 60's and for your concern for the many brave young men and women whose lives were sacrificed on the alter of human stupidity. I do hope you are equally concerned for the more than 61,000 innocent victims who die annually at the hands of those who all too frequently and arrogantly chose to operate motor vehicles, while their minds are impaired by chemicals and excess alcohol (very reminiscent of the inclinations of those you have declared so heroic!).
> 
> ...and keeping things sartorial, I would argue that your conclusion as to the actual impact of the acts of those "flower children of the 60's", is a bit overstated. I think instead, the faces and voices of all those 'ever so Tradly dressed' newsmen, wearing well tailored suits and rep strippe ties and bringing the face of war into our living rooms on a daily basis, had a much greater impact. Very few of us are able to witness, with any degree of comfort, the true impact of our flawed judgement.
> 
> Now if you find it necessary to continue this...take your thoughts to the interchange!


Well put, Bird, well put. And I say that with sincerity. I will take your advice and go to the interchange. Will you engage me there?​


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## wannaB1L (Jul 30, 2006)

in professional school (not for a BA), and find myself untucking my shirt once in a while because I stand out w/ OCBD and khakis. I wish students still wore at least a tie to class


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Not even kids in the 1930s wore ties to class (unless it was a private school), so I think that's going just a tad far. Tucked in shirt and non-jeans is comfortable and looks neat enough.


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## Bowling Greener (Aug 24, 2008)

Yeah, no point in wearing a tie to class.

Even a navy blazer sans tie will get you odd stares. A cord sportcoat is about as well as you're going to be able to do.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

"Not even kids in the 1930s wore ties to class (unless it was a private school), so I think that's going just a tad far."

Is this true? Some of the movies I've seen of the era show kids coming to breakfast in a coat and tie. I doubt that they removed them between then and arriving at school.


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## joeyzaza (Dec 9, 2005)

I feel lucky to have gone to college in the mid 1980s when trad/dressing up was closer to the norm.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm going back to university full-time in 2010.

I'll wear suits, ties & dress shoes daily to class. At the very least I'll wear blazers, ties, and dress pants, with loafers. I'm going for the piece of paper at the end of the line, not the social scene (drinking too much and acting like painted football fans).

Why would someone honestly be afraid to dress up with a OCBD with tie for university lectures or classes? Someone going to beat you up? Girls will laugh at you? Will it go on your permanent record that you took pride in appearance above and beyond the careless standards of the day? What a weak spine. Why be interested in clothes at all? Where can you college kids even wear classically respectful clothes? I assume the naysayers dress up in their dorms and sit very still, hoping no one sees.



eagle2250 said:


> ... I commend you on your expression of civic appreciation for one of the less well dressed segments of our university populations back in the 60's and for your concern for the many brave young men and women whose lives were sacrificed on the alter of human stupidity.


This was... awesome.
The degradation of society, religion, and dress, caused by the angry, aging "heroes" is tragic and disgraceful.


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## Senator LooGAR (Apr 19, 2008)

I wish I had understood some of the sartorial necessities of this look/ethos when in an institution of higher learning. While I strayed far from t-shirts and pre-torn jeans and sneakers - more towards an untucked plaid shirt and jeans or cargo pants, and the ever present hiking boots.

My advice would be: white/blue ocbd, no tie, no blazer, jeans, loafers or desert boots, or even well maintained hiking boots or bean boots - you'll feel better, and you'll look better than the slobs, and the women will notice. Even if you don't notice them noticing.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

P Hudson said:


> "Not even kids in the 1930s wore ties to class (unless it was a private school), so I think that's going just a tad far."
> 
> Is this true? Some of the movies I've seen of the era show kids coming to breakfast in a coat and tie. I doubt that they removed them between then and arriving at school.


And TV shows in the '50s showed men dressed in a suit and tie when eating breakfast! I don't know if it's entirely accurate since I've seen pictures of kids, from elementary to the university here, just in a shirt and trousers for the most part. Maybe it's just Florida, though.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Jovan said:


> And TV shows in the '50s showed men dressed in a suit and tie when eating breakfast!


And they made that commercial becaaaussse... it was supposed to be hilariously bizarre?

No.

My father always ate breakfast in a suit and tie. He would get washed and dressed, eat a quick breakfast, and dash. That was life. He was a medical doctor/surgeon, so that might have had some influence on the attire, I am not sure.


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## cynical kane (Dec 13, 2008)

Memphis88 said:


> Turning up your nose at someone is never a good thing. Wearing better clothes than someone else may make you a better dresser than them, but it does _NOT_ a better person than them. In fact, if you are in the habit of looking down on others, especially over something as petty as clothes (we all love them, but in the grand scheme of things they just aren't that important), then I would venture to say you are likely a worse person.


Generally you shouldn't judge people by the clothes they wear, but some clothing--like pre-ripped clothes--certainly says something about the wearer. You don't accidentally purchase and wear clothes like that.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

A few other helpful trad undercover items: 

Brown duck dungarees. Cut like khakis, but with enough of a family resemblance to jeans to sneak by in khaki-hostile environments.

Plaid wool shirts. Pendleton, Woolrich, etc. I still see a lot of those on campus, albeit worn in fairly non-trad ways.

Redwing Irish Setters. Outdoorsy boot in an LL Bean sort of way. Or you could just go with some Bean boots. Speaking of Bean, a barn or field coat probably wouldn't hurt, either.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

There does exist one very good reason for not wearing a tie to class...

One should never attempt to look like a pledge.
Ever. 

Especially on Wednesdays for our fraternity and Thursdays for the neighbors...


haha.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

cynical kane said:


> Generally you shouldn't judge people by the clothes they wear, but some clothing--like pre-ripped clothes--certainly says something about the wearer. You don't accidentally purchase and wear clothes like that.


You can wear trendy clothing and still be a very affable and genuine person. Don't judge a book by its cover.


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## heimskringla (Nov 2, 2008)

Senator LooGAR said:


> My advice would be: white/blue ocbd, no tie, no blazer, jeans, loafers or desert boots, or even well maintained hiking boots or bean boots - you'll feel better, and you'll look better than the slobs, and the women will notice. Even if you don't notice them noticing.


This is good advice. Women do tend to notice, and my experience has been that said notice is of the positive variety. I've received quite a lot of compliments and a few dates due to my particular style of dress.

Old Navy OCBDs are okay; I wear them on a daily basis, but am planning on upgrading to LE or BB in the near future; LE doesn't seem to make a pink OCBD with an 18" neck.


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