# Arti-fic-ial!



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

*Art-I-Ficial!*

You do not exist.

The concept of the Ancestor Programme, more recently the Simulation Hypothesis, provides us with the knowledge that it is statistically near impossible that we exist in an authentic reality and almost certain that we are mere avatars in some xbox game.

Variants of the Simulation Hypothesis expounding the notion that this is not the true creation may be traced back to many ancient primitive cultures across the globe. Early philosophical crystallisation was offered by Pyrrhon of Ellis "sense experience and beliefs .. are in fact neither true nor false". Sextus Empiricus developed the concept further "one may be either in a state of wakefulness or sleep. But it is entirely possible that things in the world really are exactly as they appear to be to those in unnatural states". The Zen Buddhists involved themselves in the concerns of existence (but they are, of course, fools and so I choose to disregard them). Master Zhuang's traditional fable proposes "While he is dreaming he does not know it is a dream, and in his dream he may even try to interpret a dream". René Descartes allowed "The ability of the mind to be tricked into believing a mentally generated world is the "real world" means at least one variety of simulated reality is a common, even nightly event". Lewis Caroll's Red King dreams within the Looking Glass pages and should he wake&#8230;&#8230;

Here is the inarguable logic:

Computing power has increased exponentially since the fifties (the advent of the modern computer age) and shows no sign of slowing, more likely it will accelerate - with petascale performance level data access and manipulation via cloud storage imminent.

Video games, empowered by the improvements to processing, have followed the trend of exponential advancement from Ping to the latest COD, ultra-realistic, smooth flowing graphics and populated by characters driven by AI capable of independent 'off screen' activity.

Eventually it will be possible to simulate the entire Solar System, even the Universe, especially if a conceit entitled 'passing through the veil' is employed, by which characters would be programmed to disregard perceptual flaws. However, the flaws could be probed and current lattice-gauge theory explores the possibility that our space-time is composed of discrete tiling, as might be expected in virtual simulation.

Once a video game of Universal simulation is made commercially available then the statistical likelihood of us existing in the authentic reality drops to almost zero - if there a millions of simulations then only one can be truly real, the odds against it being our own experience which is authentic are millions to one against. Worse still, unless one discounts entirely the possibility of Universal simulations being achievable then we must be existing within a simulation currently. As Nick Bostrom has it "Unless we are now living in a simulation, our descendants will almost certainly never run an ancestor-simulation".

For those whose curiosity is piqued please find further reading here: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Simulation_argument

You do not exist..
.



As you were gentlemen.






I know I'm artificial
But don't put the blame on me
I was reared with appliances
In a consumer society


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Huh?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chillburgher (Mar 19, 2014)

Bibo ergo sum.


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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

Well, that is certainly a very interesting if somewhatabstruse (did you like that word, I just used it for the first time,) conceptof reality. Assuming you would belooking for some discussion on this topic then I would raise the following topics:

1. "A single, highly advanced civilization would run many simulations of itshistory in order to study it." 
I do not necessarily agree with this argument. If such futuristic humans (priorto the change to post-humans) had such computational abilities then I do notnecessarily agree that their main focus for such abilities would be forstudying the past in such a way. Afterall, what could they really learn from such? I would sooner buy the argument that such simulations are the creationof some computer based artificial intelligence or alien life form looking tocreate new forms of life and using this in a "fruit-fly" multigenerational experiment. A "SIMS" game made real.2. Given that such simulations are run, and in countlessnumbers such as to allow for the fact that the existence within any single"universe" whether "real" or "simulated" isgreatly skewed towards our existence being within one of the"simulated" universes what practical difference does it make to youand me?Within the parameters of the universein which you live your existence is dependent at least somewhat upon yourrecognizing and accepting those parameters "Youknow, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth,the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nineyears, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss."Anysystem has boundaries within which you either choose to thrive or cease toexist. As Cypher puts forth, would itnot be better to accept and enjoy the steak than to rail against a reality youare helpless to change. The Matrix ofcourse takes this a step further and assumes that you do have the ability to "remove"yourself from your current universe or at the very least Neo has this ability. This was not the case for all of the otherpeople living within the matrix. Afterall, Morpheus does not offer the pills to everyone.Evenwithin the scope of our particular society your life is governed by the rulesset up by the majority. These are thelaws which have been determined by those who lived before you to limit yourparticipation within your world.Further, any organism living within a system can onlyexpand their own life to the limits of their "universe." Let's use the example of a current video game(SIMS) character created by me. My character(Woofa Jr.,) no matter how technologically advanced, could never enter myworld. Only in the realm of sciencefiction movies such as Tron, Lawnmower Man, CoolWorld or The Matrix can a being"escape" into a different dimension (and in The Matrix only because thecharacter actually existed within that Universe unbeknown to themselves.) Only by becoming a three dimensional creature(thus no longer what they were,) could Woofa Jr. escape from his twodimensional world into my three dimensional one. For all I know this is exactly what happenswhen someone from our universe dies.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

So-lip-sis-tic.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

MaxBuck said:


> So-lip-sis-tic.


Not a bit of it Maxy, quite the reverse in fact.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Woofa said:


> Well, that is certainly a very interesting if some what abstruse (did you like that word, I just used it for the first time,) concept of reality. Assuming you would be looking for some discussion on this topic then I would raise the following topics:
> 
> 1. "A single, highly advanced civilization would run many simulations of its history in order to study it."
> 
> ...


Dearest Woofa, I trust that you will not object but I tidied up your post somewhat to make it a little easier on the eye and a mite more readable.

I address your points thusly:

1.

Mere dialectical semantics - the purpose of the simulation is immaterial, the simulation is the thing in and of itself.

2.

Bingo my friend! This is the nub of things: what practical difference does it make? However this is a micro/macro contemplative pursuit and, once postulated, in application becomes all encompassing. As above, so below.

BTW Cypher (of the Matrix) is intended to be a personification of weakness, perfidious flesh and dissolute soul, probably best not to cite his words as good example for moral choice.

However, all of this aside, it could be possible, if we are mere digital content in a Universal simulation, to escape and to interact with the real world. Here is one potential option:

https://www.princeton.edu/engineering/news/archive/?id=13459

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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

I definitely do not mind you cleaning it up a bit. To be honest, this is mostly way above my head but I do enjoy reading about it and at least trying to come up with some discussion. That was an interesting article about the Princeton scientists. I always find the kinds of things that cutting edge scientists are working on to be amazing. Having said that, I often find myself in a dilemna as to how I feel about the work itself. I often feel the same about work done by NASA. On the one hand, I feel that this is needed, ground breaking research that will lead to future discoveries which will aid in the lives of billions and help to take us into the next few hundred years. Unfortunately, as much as I think this is needed, I know how expensive this research can be and I wonder that on a planet where we can do such amazing things, map DNA, search for the beginning of the universe, etc. half the planet is starving, we cannot yet figure out how to make fresh water from salt water affordably, we still rely on gasoline and other fossil fuels which are clearly harming our planet.
I wish that we could somehow just catch up a bit to all of this theoretical research with a smidgeon more practical science. I believe that if we could just take a few major steps, our world could be in a better position to maximize the potential of all human beings on it.


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## Joseph Peter (Mar 26, 2012)

Bravo gentlemen! You lead the class. Ascribing beedle status - as the term is used by Jesuit educators - to you both seems insufficient.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ Heh.

My Jesuit educators applied an entirely different term to in order to describe the young Shaver, in those far off halcyon days of prepossessing youth, perfecting my studied torpor in our boys' college.

I forgive them, however, as I am recently given to understand that this is the right thing to do.

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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

_Now back in the real world, life, carbon, was too expensive. No one could afford to live, go out or travel and the world was too scary. Fifteen years ago the book "Snow Crash" predicted the underclass would have to live out their lives trapped in a tiny room with full head monitors on. Leading a second life wired to a computer generated world._

We can make it safe out there in the meat space
Next stop paradise it's a brave new world -
Said the avatars of dread, you're as good as dead.
With the needle in the red, with a bucket on your head.

In their bucket homes - with equal opportunity.
It's a wired thing - twenty million zombies
They dream of dream estate - in their utopian state
And all the hip were signed, hooked and now on-line.

So where is my friend, well he's at home, with a bucket stuck on his head.
So where is my friend, he's all alone, walking with the living dead.

_Amazingly the second lifeworld started to mirror the old world where the quality of life and social interactions were again dictated by your wealth. 
Only the rich could be fully rendered in 3D colour, get in the VIP areas.
The poor people realised they existed only as black and white outlines._

Everyone imagined no outline was normal in an equal world
So when a 3D colour - the order is restored at last
An equal world even for young girls
VIP walk by never questioned why.

So where is my friend, well he's at home, with a bucket stuck on his head.
So where is my friend, well he's all alone, walking with the living dead.

_The money wheel had turned and harmony, peace and order was restored to the world.
_
Everybody is happy - in the perfect second life -
Everything is rendered, everything is programmed
Safe and pixel-tight - right down to the byte,
In their prison cell with silicone to hell.

Where is my friend, well he's at home, with a bucket stuck on his head.
So where is my friend, he's all alone, walking with the living dead.

_In reality the government had the whole population controlled. Trapped, in their rooms, fuelled on vitamin added up pizzas, not bothered by the real world events. Control not by force of law, but addiction to computer silicon and the code that they wrote._

Where is my friend, well he's not at home, with a bucket stuck on his head.
So where is my friend, he's all alone, walking with the living dead.

Now everyone stays in - and the rich have all the space
I still have hope that giant carbon feet
guess who's in control, - with no place for your soul.
Somewhere in the trash,- will cause the snow to crash.

Where is my friend, well he's not at home, with a bucket stuck on his head.
So where is my friend, he's all alone, walking with the living dead.

_And meanwhile the rich road about in horses and carriages through the empty streets. And the poor stayed in their towerpods, in bucketworld._

So where is my friend, well he's not at home, with a bucket stuck on his head.
So where is my friend, he's all alone, walking with the living dead.

The whole population slipped a bucket on their head.
There was no more revolution they spent the day in bed.
And the whole population slipped a bucket on their head.
There was no revolution they spent the day in bed.

Welcomed hype or hope, or is this liberation, control, or in control, or isolation.
Welcomed hype or hope, or is this liberation, control, or in control, or isolation.

So where is my friend, well he's at home, with a bucket stuck on his head.
So where is my friend, he's all alone, walking with the living dead.

_The use of needles - walking with the living dead - Plays on the addiction analogy, that the concept suggests. That the normal world population will become hooked on living in cyber world._

So where is my friend, well he's at home, with a bucket stuck on his head.
So where is my friend, he's all alone, walking with the living dead, here they come!


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

"For the phenomenologist the 'impact view' of technology as well as the constructivist view of the technology/society relationships is valid but not adequate (Heidegger 1977, Borgmann 1985, Winograd and Flores 1987, Ihde 1990, Dreyfus 1992, 2001). They argue that these accounts of technology, and the technology/society relationship, posit technology and society as if speaking about the one does not immediately and already draw upon the other for its ongoing sense or meaning. For the phenomenologist, society and technology co-constitute each other; they are each other's ongoing condition, or possibility for being what they are. For them technology is not just the artefact. Rather, the artefact already emerges from a prior 'technological' attitude towards the world (Heidegger 1977)"


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Interesting.

Although I am uncertain as to the actual meaning of this sentiment.

Might I trouble you to explain what you believe that this collection of words may signify?

Thank you, by the way, for your engagement. On a forum where the texture of a jacket invokes heated debate that the almost undeniable postulation, being, we are characters in a video game remains largely ignored flabbers my gast.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

That hypothesis is largely valid. It is also serves as a good basis for an associative disorder subset known as derealization. I, as in anything other than an objective physical conglomeration of matter, am my ego. And my ego is 100% an artificial, subjective construct with no basis in objective reality. Indeed, not only is our knowledge of ourselves subjective and synthetic, the same is true for the majority of our perception of reality. 

But do not ponder these things objectively and too deeply, because they are very disturbing, rather let us cling to our subjective collective human nature, because objectively false as it may be, it is far more comforting.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Once our highly advanced civilization increases computing power to the point where there is a realistic simulated sexbot, I plan on making my purchase and never leaving the house again. Till then, I wait. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

We are all technology of the biochemical type. We are all AI, a mass of electrical charges buzzing about our mainframe (body). 

Is there any intelligence which is not artificial? Now we are into religion.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Once our highly advanced civilization increases computing power to the point where there is a realistic simulated sexbot, I plan on making my purchase and never leaving the house again. Till then, I wait.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


LOL. Perhaps a year or so back author, James Patterson and co-author Emily Raymond published a novel, Humans, Bow Down, which might provide you with a quick, recreational read...or serve as a primer on 'living with Bots!' :laughing:


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

At some point, there has to be someone who writes the code. You could also argue that there is not enough computing power that could ever be developed that could handle even the trillions of daily decisions that are made on the Earth much less determine the potential outcomes from them all.

And, of course, if we were all a game, someone would have restarted us by now because they didn't like the outcome.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

My son, the Millennial, sent me this article this morning. It seems relevant to the thread. Enjoy.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/08/17/the-premium-mediocre-life-of-maya-millennial/

Cheers,

BSR


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

I think the term "aspirational brand" is a close cousin of Premium Mediocre. 

It's really interesting that the more affluent and, presumably, intelligent among us are precisely the ones who seem to fall for this sort of thing. 

I see this in healthcare all the time as patients want to discuss some exotic, holistic treatment they read about in some vegan magazine while waiting in line to check out at Whole Foods.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

As for Shaver's interesting OP from 2015, I spent considerable time and a large amount of my parents resources studying this subject in PPE lectures and viewing it through the bottom of a collegiate beer glass. 

These days, I am far too busy keeping the wolf from civilization's door. 

May you simulate in interesting times. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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