# Say Hello To the Bad Guy...



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Slow morning, thought I'd check the forum...I was hoping one of the more fanatical jingoists on the boards might have posted something about President Obama shaking hands with hugo chavez (I figured that a gloom and doom prophecy about how he's damned us all or a back and forth between extremists from both sides of the aisle [this place certainly isnt lacking in that department] might be good for a laugh) but alas nothing...yall are slipping...come on...it's gearing up to be a boring day; a person can only play bookworm for so long before that gets old, and I've already read all the interesting news...lets have a little point counterpoint between two extremes...somebody give me something here...


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

I'll take the bait. From a post I made earlier this moring in Tea Party thread: 


Beau said:


> The Obama administration is leading us down a path to ruin. Republicans do have a viable plan, yet don't have enough votes in Congress to get this ship turned around.
> 
> Here's Obama's plan in a nutshell: Promote theories about global warming/climate shift and cripple the energy industry and with it all other U.S. manufacturing. Bow to the King of Saudin Arabia and give a "soul-brother" handshake to Hugu Chavez; thereby, ensuring our dependence on foreign oil. Saddle taxpayers with a humongous debt and create class warfare. Allow the Bush taxcuts to expire, which will also remove the first 10% bracket (under Bush everyone's first $10K of earnings are not taxed). This way everyone pays into the system, yet costs go up and we wind up in hell in this very untidy handbasket.
> 
> Dear Obama apologists and supporters wake up to the ruse you have helped create.


I won't promise a response for response up to the minute debate (expense report due today...).

Please don't ask me to recount everything that John Boehner proposes. I know you can read. Just don't deny that Republicans have a plan. The GOP congressional leadership most certainly has a plan, but the mainstream media won't give them a frontpage voice.

Bring it, Liberal!:icon_smile_big:


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Oh I'm not really a liberal per-se...just a disenfranchised (quasi) Republican who gets a charge out of being an instigator...

...although I'm not entirely sure what qualifies as a "soul brother" handshake, I have to admit that I've only seen stills of the handshake and it looked like a normal handshake to me, I mean, what did they do a handjive into a backpat and finish off with the ever untrustowrthy dap (aka fist bump to the un-initiated)...or maybe one of those that starts out like a normal handshake but then the participants touch thumps and do a kinda tandem itsy bitsy spider thing where their index fingers and thumbs both touch (it's kinda hard to explain) then break away and raise their pinched forefinger and thumb to their lips and pantomime cannabis smoking???


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

Fine. Take a stance you believe in. Make it known. 

You have to admit though, our current president did bow to the Saudi King and he gave Chavez a "soul brother" handshake. I can't wait till he goes to Cuba and attends a figurative "donkey show" with Castro's brother, just like Fredo with Moe Green in "The Godfather".


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I dunno...I mean, I'll be the first to admit that I hated Obama when he first arrived on the scene, but honestly, there has kinda been a GWB effect (in my mind at least)...it's like the more people criticize him, the more I begin to like him...I guess I'm just a fan of the bad guys...

Honestly though RE: taking a stance, it's tough at this stage in the game because nobody is really willing to work with anybody (kind of like a pipe dream for us middle of the roaders), everybody works harder at tearing the other guy down than they do at actually trying to fix the problem (I guess that's business as usual as far as poli-tricks is concerned though)...so what is the point in getting all worked up about things that we have the power to change but absolutely refuse to (and I'm referring to both Repubs and Dems with that statement)...

...I'd still love to know what qualifies as a "soul brother" handshake...is it just any handshake between two ethnic participants???


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

*That's a "soul brother" handshake...*


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

my bad...okay I'll admit I didnt realize it wasnt a traditional handshake (whiteboy handshake?)...but still I dont see how he put our country into any kind of immediate danger or anything by doing that...I mean did he like slip him some nuclear launch codes or something???

I guess the way I see it, if you have a legit beef with Obama that's cool, I certainly have my issues with the gov't bailout...but the fervor I've seen from the fox news/rush limburger knuckleheads (Repubs who make me ashamed to be a Repub) over something so meaningless as a handshake just really makes me think that alot of people need a hobby...


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

Not so long ago, it was protocol to ignore those from whom you had suffered international insults. Not now. Why do we need a "Why can't we all just get along" policy?

We need to protect our interests, keep our country strong, and uphold the values that made this country great. We are a representative repblic, not a democracy. We govern ourselves according to the rule of law. Our greatest problem is that we have a guy (president) who wants to make laws that nationalize industry and put all power into the hands of governement. 

The U.S. Constitution mandates that the role of the federal government is to provide for a strong national defense. We have gone far afield of that notion, and it's a damn shame.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia does not signify subserviance, but respect for their position. Same as the U.S. president bowing to the Queen does NOT indicate whether we're still one of their colonies.

I can think of a few times where our last president showed similar respect (though he didn't do a "soul" handshake). I don't see what the big deal is.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I feel you on some of your argument...I definately have a problem with the gov't putting industry in a chokehold, I also have a problem with writing a check to uncle sam every year just to feed people who have chosen procreation as a career path and bail out bank execs who probably make more in a year than my whole family put together. But once again, I have to disagree with the notion that somehow by exchanging pleasantries with somebody (who might not like us, but in actuallity poses no real threat) is somehow weakening our national defense. I might disagree with some of Obama's policies, but I truly believe that he is just as much of a patriot as anybody else...After all, why would he accept such a stressful, thankless job unless he felt he could do some good (and no I wont even entertain the theories that he's some kind of diabolical transplant sent here to deliberately put us on a path to ruin [that's just retarded])...Furthermore, it's not like Obama flew down to Venezuela to kick it at chavez's pad and while watching soccer and pounding brews, I mean they both happened to be in a (for the sake of argument) neutral setting and the whole exchange didnt even last that long...I really fail to see what American values he is comprimising or how he's putting our country in danger by doing what he did...


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

Maybe I would like Obama better if he had just pounded his shoe on the lecturn "Nikita Khrushchev" style and told the Latin Americans "We will bury you!" instead of apologizing that somehow the USA has exploited them. How did we do that? Was it by allowing great holes in our border to let them bring so many drugs and their manual labor to our country? People come here illegally because what we have to offer is better than anywhere else in the world. Anyone can become an American citizen. That is not so true of anyone who immigrates to any other country. 
On the bowing issue; the POTUS does not bow to anyone -- that is the protocol.

I can't understand why anyone thinks he has done anything positive since his inauguration.

His policies enlarge government - bad. He thinks capitalism is bad/evil/harmful - wrong. He has tripled the deficit, and criticized his predecessor for doing so - the audacity! He believes in global warming/climate change - unproven theory. He is weakening us in the eyes of the world - yeah, our navy killed some pirates who had it coming - but sabers are rattling that have not in 20 years. Our enemies are emboldened by his weak countenance.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I think the bowing deal is indeed a matter of protocol...what if some head of state visited Washington and believed that somehow shaking hands with the POTUS would somehow demean his country and therefore refused to??? That's just a hypothetical, but you get where I'm comming from...

Now some of these arguments are exactly what has made me begin to like Obama recently. he may not be the biggest champion of free enterprise (as if such a thing exists anymore anyway), but I have never once heard him bash Capitalism by saying it was evil or whatever...I have my reservations about global warming, but at the same time I dont think the fact that the guy cares about the environment makes him some kind of flower child, and honestly politics aside, I think anybody who loves America wouldnt want to see our land sea and air polluted to the point of no return...

I dunno I guess I just look at this gratuitous Obama bashing with the same disgust as I looked on the air America/daily kos dirtbags who never missed an opportunity to jump on GWB everytime the guy so much as broke wind (not literally, but you know what I mean)...


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Oh I'm not really a liberal per-se...just a disenfranchised (quasi) Republican who gets a charge out of being an instigator...


Gee Gabba, if you want to instigate just go over to the Fashion Forum and announce that you like wearing a white bow tie with your notch lapel tuxedo. That will definitely instigate. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Gee Gabba, if you want to instigate just go over to the Fashion Forum and announce that you like wearing a white bow tie with your notch lapel tuxedo. That will definitely instigate. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Cruiser


Well you know how it is...I mean I like to instigate, but only when the people I'm instigating still live on this planet...or at least in this time period...


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Hey, Gabba...great to see you post again.

While I despise Crazy Hugo (and his toady Evo Morales in Bolivia) for a number of reasons, I think people are reading way too much into his brief meeting with Obama. What did people expect? The two of them to start throwing punches? Hell, even Ronald Reagan was civil and smiled for photos with Daniel Ortega.

If Obama's plans to reduce our dependence on foreign oil works, Chavez will ultimately prove to be a toothless lion. It's a little hard to peddle his brand of hate, paranoia, suppression and subversion if there's no money in the till. 

If we're lucky, his pig-eyed corpulence will get the better of him and he'll meet his maker sooner rather than later.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> Hey, Gabba...great to see you post again.


Thanks, I still check the fora with some regularity, but this place has lost alot of its spice if you get my drift...



> While I despise Crazy Hugo (and his toady Evo Morales in Bolivia) for a number of reasons, I think people are reading way too much into his brief meeting with Obama. What did people expect? The two of them to start throwing punches? Hell, even Ronald Reagan was civil and smiled for photos with Daniel Ortega.
> 
> If Obama's plans to reduce our dependence on foreign oil works, Chavez will ultimately prove to be a toothless lion. It's a little hard to peddle his brand of hate, paranoia, suppression and subversion if there's no money in the till.
> 
> If we're lucky, his pig-eyed corpulence will get the better of him and he'll meet his maker sooner rather than later.


That's pretty much exactly how I look at it...chavez isnt a real threat to anybody and in a few years time (provided we really do reduce our dependance on foreign oil) that clown wont have the power to blow his own nose, I really cant figure out why people got so worked up over a hand shake ("soul man" or otherwise)...


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## Xhine23 (Jan 17, 2008)

*I saw on PBS frontline (Black money).....*

where Margaret Thatcher bowed to the Saudi's King. I really don't see the a big deal on this. American cable news media has turned into reality show and we the views are the one entertaining this stupidity.
And since when a handshake endanger a country?


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Thanks, I still check the fora with some regularity, but this place has lost alot of its spice if you get my drift...


Yup...you can only disect the relative advantages of one OCBD over another, and fight over the appropriateness of denim for so long.

I miss the sports threads. Glad to see a few pop up lately.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Perhaps we could discuss whether Chavez's bright red tie in the picture is a political statement or simply the best way to finish off his outfit.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Perhaps we could discuss whether Chavez's bright red tie in the picture is a political statement or simply the best way to finish off his outfit.


All the fashionale commies are wearing them these days. It's all the rage!:icon_smile_big:


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I've wondered why hannity and the residents of every double wide in America that recieve his broadcasts hasnt jumped on President Obama when he wears a red tie...I mean something like that is taylor made (weak pun kinda intended) for that kind of pretend controversy...


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Would you wear the Red Tie when speaking in Democratic States and the Blue Tie in Republican states? (Does this mean some shade of purple for State of Union and other national speeches??)

What about pocket squares?? - Socks????


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

The Gabba Goul said:


> I've wondered why hannity and the residents of every double wide in America that recieve his broadcasts hasnt jumped on President Obama when he wears a red tie...I mean something like that is taylor made (weak pun kinda intended) for that kind of pretend controversy...


They've been too busy printing Palin 2012 t-shirts.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Would you wear the Red Tie when speaking in Democratic States and the Blue Tie in Republican states? (Does this mean some shade of purple for State of Union and other national speeches??)
> 
> What about pocket squares?? - Socks????


maybe red tie and blue pocket square (I'm sure there's some way you could make that work)...as for socks...dang, I suppose you could find a pattern that incorporates both colors...maybe these bad boys......now that's class with a capital K (hmmmm...that saying isnt as funny when you type it out)...


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> They've been too busy printing Palin 2012 t-shirts.


Now THAT'S what scares the $h!t out of me...


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Now THAT'S what scares the $h!t out of me...


You're not the only one, my friend.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Would you wear the Red Tie when speaking in Democratic States and the Blue Tie in Republican states? (Does this mean some shade of purple for State of Union and other national speeches??)
> 
> What about pocket squares?? - Socks????


I'd say some hideous Stars 'n' Stripes tie from Kohl's would be good for the State of the Union address.:icon_smile_big:


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## Single malt Mark (Apr 11, 2009)

How dare Obama shake Chavez's hand, it's wrong for a President to shake the hands of our enemies.


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## Single malt Mark (Apr 11, 2009)

Very, very wrong.......


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## Single malt Mark (Apr 11, 2009)

Terribly wrong .....


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

Neither Gorbachev nor Chou en Lai hurled spurulous insults towards our presidents. Neither called the POTUS a buffoon as did Chavez.

We beat down the Soviet Union, and I guess we have Nixon to thank for the flow of Chines made goods into Walmart. Too bad that Russia is going backwards, and it is too bad Obama wants to take us down, too.

Margaret Thatcher bowed, but then she was familiar with that sort of thing.


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## Single malt Mark (Apr 11, 2009)

In review:


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Beau said:


> Margaret Thatcher bowed, but then she was familiar with that sort of thing.


yeah...Heaven forbid you have a president who is familiar with the customs and policies of other countries...


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## norton (Dec 18, 2008)

The Gabba Goul said:


> I've wondered why hannity and the residents of every double wide in America that recieve his broadcasts hasnt jumped on President Obama when he wears a red tie...I mean something like that is taylor made (weak pun kinda intended) for that kind of pretend controversy...


That's pretty condescending for someone who can't spell or use proper punctuation. Do you look down on people who live in mobile homes? Is it a common prejudice among your friends and acquaintances?


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

norton said:


> That's pretty condescending for someone who can't spell or use proper punctuation. Do you look down on people who live in mobile homes? Is it a common prejudice among your friends and acquaintances?


you know it huckleberry...

***Just to clarify, that was sarcasm***


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

Single malt Mark said:


> In review:


Spot on!


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## Single malt Mark (Apr 11, 2009)

Hugs are better than handshakes .....


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Single malt Mark said:


> Hugs are better than handshakes .....


I actually like both of those guys in the pic, but, that really should be used in one of those "create a caption" contests...


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## Single malt Mark (Apr 11, 2009)

The Gabba Goul said:


> I actually like both of those guys in the pic, but, that really should be used in one of those "create a caption" contests...


Google "Bush hugs McCain", you'll see some


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Beau said:


> Fine. Take a stance you believe in. Make it known.
> 
> You have to admit though, our current president did bow to the Saudi King and he gave Chavez a "soul brother" handshake. *I can't wait till he goes to Cuba and attends a figurative "donkey show" with Castro's brother, just like Fredo with Moe Green in "The Godfather".*


Which one will be banging cocktail waitresses two at a time? :icon_smile_big:


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Single malt Mark said:


> In review:


There's one difference. The first three leaders mattered on the world stage. Not all countries are equal, and not all need to be treated equally. Nations do not have friends or partners; they have interest. In the former three, it was in our interest to cozy up. The latter, there is no interest. Venezuela is an insignificant country led by a buffoon of the first order. He will soon be strung up or otherwise he will continue to drive his country into the ground. Their one lever is oil which they have to keep flowing, otherwise they will be a client state of the IMF.

One other thing, in the first three events, we actually were able to achieve meaningful things and forge strategic partnerships. Venezuela does not have anything that we need (except for oil which I alluded to earlier) nor is there anything substantive to be had from a strategic relationship. Obama is better off cozying up to Pres. Uribe of Colombia and pushing through the Free Trade Agreement so we can actually develop some meaningful leverage in South America.


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

Yawn . . .


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Well, I don't think he's reported looking into the soul of any despots yet. Or have I missed that?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Good point, although hopefully Mr. Obama's goals are a bit higher than just being better than Bush.


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

jackmccullough said:


> Well, I don't think he's reported looking into the soul of any despots yet. Or have I missed that?


...and he hasn't done anything to help this country, either.

He is weak, unprepared, and flying by the seat of his pants.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> Well, I don't think he's reported looking into the soul of any despots yet. Or have I missed that?


No, but he's a comrade, according to Mr Putin (at least as long as he keeps the apology stream going). So, he's got that going for him, which is good.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Did they do the Dap?


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

norton said:


> That's pretty condescending for someone who can't spell or use proper punctuation. Do you look down on people who live in mobile homes? Is it a common prejudice among your friends and acquaintances?


Let me say norton that Gabba and I clashed with some acrimony a couple of years ago before we both began to understand each other's wit and style. He's a good guy.

OK Gabba, you owe me $5.

Cruiser


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Single malt Mark said:


> In review:


....and here we are, keeping our friends close and our enemies closer. Good counsel, perhaps?


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Single malt Mark said:


> How dare Obama shake Chavez's hand, it's wrong for a President to shake the hands of our enemies.


Is that a 3/2 sack Nixon's wearing? Looks nice IMO.


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## bigchris1313 (Apr 16, 2009)

Nixon in a sack, eh? (Assuming you're right, anyway). Although it isn't a blazer, it's interesting to see Nixon in anything remotely Tradly, given his extremely un-Tradly identity. I don't care if he founded his own frat--the man really had to grind up from the bottom.

What an underrated President.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Single malt Mark said:


> In review:


First, to be fair to President Obama I think he was blindsided by Chavez who was clearly trying to do nothing more than set up a photo op that he could use to increase his own influence with his neighbors. I have heard it reported that Obama was not happy with this little play by Chavez and cornered him either later that day or the next and dressed him down out of range of the microphones, but there is video showing Obama lecturing a silent Chavez.

Having said that, I do think there is a difference in how we should respond to Chavez vs. the other three leaders pictured. Only Chavez came onto U.S. soil and openly insulted the President, thereby insulting all Americans regardless of whether you agree with the policies of the President or not. I don't think Americans would be happy with a President who went to another country, even one that we weren't particularly friendly with, and personally insulted the leader of that country.

Cruiser


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

PT (the other one) got it 100% right. Chavez is a clown, an insignificant little clown. That's the difference.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Single malt Mark said:


> ...


"Only Nixon can go to China" -- Vulcan proverb


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

JibranK said:


> Is that a 3/2 sack Nixon's wearing? Looks nice IMO.





bigchris1313 said:


> Nixon in a sack, eh? (Assuming you're right, anyway). Although it isn't a blazer, it's interesting to see Nixon in anything remotely Tradly, given his extremely un-Tradly identity. I don't care if he founded his own frat--the man really had to grind up from the bottom.
> 
> What an underrated President.


Not a sack. Look closely, there's a dart.


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Jovan said:


> Not a sack. Look closely, there's a dart.


Got it. Well I didn't say it was a sack - I asked if it was.



Cruiser said:


> Having said that, I do think there is a difference in how we should respond to Chavez vs. the other three leaders pictured. Only Chavez came onto U.S. soil and openly insulted the President, *thereby insulting all Americans* regardless of whether you agree with the policies of the President or not. I don't think Americans would be happy with a President who went to another country, even one that we weren't particularly friendly with, and personally insulted the leader of that country.


I disagree. I'm not fan of Chavez but I don't think insults to the head-of-state of a state wherein the head of state is also the head of government would equal an insult to the people - it can be simply a criticism of policy.

I do think if someone were to go to Britain and insult Her Majesty it would constitute an insult to the people, but if someone were to insult Gordon Brown, it would not.

Do you see what I mean?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Would there be pictures of Bush shaking hands with anyone?


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