# Sore Losers



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Apropos of nothing in particular, but, aren't sore losers a pitiful sight to observe?


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Yes certainly. I take it you are referring to the losers in the recent Brexit and US presidential elections? They are like those secretly unpleasant individuals one sometimes encounters, whose true character is revealed only when they are drunk. They have been tested, and are found wanting.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

They're almost as bad as triumphalist winners who alienate the significant numbers of people who don't agree with them.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> Yes certainly. I take it you are referring to the losers in the recent Brexit and US presidential elections? They are like those secretly unpleasant individuals one sometimes encounters, whose true character is revealed only when they are drunk. They have been tested, and are found wanting.


Oh no, my friend, certainly not the recent presidential election. As I understand it Andy would prefer that such a line of discussion not be advanced and I respect this wish.

I was merely reflecting on poor losers generally - an odious bunch.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Quite boorish. Reminds of the 3 year old in the cereal aisle whose mother says no to the Captain Crunch.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Chouan said:


> They're almost as bad as triumphalist winners who alienate the significant numbers of people who don't agree with them.


I don't think I would advocate triumphalism either. There are too many instances of hubris provoking nemesis - pride followed by a fall etc. On the other hand, a fair, hard-won victory should always be celebrated, shouldn't it? To the victor, the spoils.


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

Yes, sore losers are the worst. The real value in any contest is the effort put in to attain the prize, not the prize itself.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

OK, just a reminder that the forum rules apply in the Interchange, too. This has not strayed yet, but it is showing signs - - -


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

^Just out of curiosity, which forum rule are you alluding to? Rule #2 says the Interchange is for discussing politics.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

I think it's to discourage the labelling of forum members as nazis and racists for simply holding an opposite political view.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> I think it's to discourage the labelling of forum members as nazis and racists for simply holding an opposite political view.


Well, that's a good idea.

In looking at some of the reactions, both from the protesters and on social media, it is clear that neither side has a monopoly on deplorables.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I blame everything on the Kardashian jewelry theft.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Shaver said:


> Oh no, my friend, certainly not the recent presidential election. As I understand it Andy would prefer that such a line of discussion not be advanced and I respect this wish.
> 
> I was merely reflecting on poor losers generally - an odious bunch.


Shaver:

THANK YOU for invoking decorum and gentlemanlyness to this thread!


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

SG_67 said:


> I think it's to discourage the labeling of forum members as Nazis and racists for simply holding an opposite political view.


SG_67:

Agreed! Unless they are Nazis and racists! :biggrin:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Andy said:


> Unless they are Nazis and racists! :biggrin:


Exactly!


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

There's much we can say about sore losers, like those who deny the legitimacy of the winner because he might happen to be black. But in deference to Andy, I will limit myself to the following observation:

From what I understand, if I were a Republican, my FB feed would be full of reports of anti-Trump protestors looting and committing acts of violence. But because I am not a Republican, I don't see those. Instead, my FB feed is full of stories about Muslims, Latinos, and others being harassed and attacked by people emboldened by Trump. Which I gather Republicans don't see. So Republicans look at their feed and think, "who's calling whom a deplorable?" I look at my feed and think, "if the white hood fits..." And so it goes. Perhaps it would do us all some good if we could swap FB feeds for a few days and see what the other sees. Maybe we could then come to a better understanding of one another.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^ Truth.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

How about this as a newsfeed: Donald Trump won. 

Pull up your diapers and deal with it. Stop shutting down the street and terrorizing people who are just trying to get home after a long day from work. 

As far as any attacks on anyone, those are crimes and should be prosecuted. It's not as though stuff like that was not going on before. 12 hours after Donald Trump was elected, I sneezed. I'm not going to blame Trump for that anymore than attacks on students.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

sore losers seem to complain more than usual after they lose in defeat.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

By the way, on just the issue of Syrian refugees, our open minded neighbors to the north seem to share at least some of the same concerns as their racist and xenophobic southern neighbors:

https://angusreid.org/canada-refugee-resettlement-plan/

Ask any nation and no one is crazy about throwing open ones borders and allowing people to come in wholesale.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Howard said:


> sore losers seem to complain more than usual after they *lose in defeat*.


Is there another way to lose?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

RogerP said:


> Is there another way to lose?


Yes. You can suck it up and realize that your side lost and deal with it. As I did in 2008 and 2012.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> Yes. You can suck it up and realize that your side lost and deal with it. As I did in 2008 and 2012.


I think he means is there any other way to lose than in defeat. In other words, one doesn't often lose in victory.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> There's much we can say about sore losers, like those who deny the legitimacy of the winner because he might happen to be black.


Coincidentally, that was the first example that came to mind for me.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

SG_67 said:


> Yes. You can suck it up and realize that your side lost and deal with it. As I did in 2008 and 2012.


Your comprehension is lacking.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Which is more reasonable? One could make a stink about a few HRC supporters rioting, or a few Trump supporters beating up gays and Muslims? I'd argue, optimistically, that neither is representative of either side. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

RogerP said:


> Your comprehension is lacking.


No it's quite intact. I'm referring to the larger point.



tocqueville said:


> Which is more reasonable? One could make a stink about a few HRC supporters rioting, or a few Trump supporters beating up gays and Muslims? I'd argue, optimistically, that neither is representative of either side.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not trying to equivocate or make one sound more reasonable than the other. Both are unreasonable, assuming those so called hate crimes actually occurred. No one has been arrested and apparently there are no witnesses. Let's hold off on suggesting that there is a wave of racism in the wake of DJT's election.

On the flip side, my wife was literally terrorized last night trying to make her way from work to the train so she could come home.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Andy said:


> SG_67:
> 
> Agreed! Unless they are Nazis and racists! :biggrin:


Quite. Expressing, or espousing racist or fascistic views, or expressing support for the views of somebody who has expressed racist or misogynistic views, for example, could well result in one correctly being described as such.

As an example, Farage has expressed racist and xenophobic views, so could quite reasonably be described as a racist and as a xenophobe. If one expresses support for Farage and his views, one could quite reasonably be described as supporting racism and xenophobia, and thus as a racist and/or a xenophobe one's self.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Would someone kindly go public with whom they believe are nazis and racists? Amongst the forum members of course. I'd love to know.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Chouan said:


> Quite. Expressing, or espousing racist or fascistic views, or expressing support for the views of somebody who has expressed racist or misogynistic views, for example, could well result in one correctly being described as such.
> 
> As an example, Farage has expressed racist and xenophobic views, so could quite reasonably be described as a racist and as a xenophobe. If one expresses support for Farage and his views, one could quite reasonably be described as supporting racism and xenophobia, and thus as a racist and/or a xenophobe one's self.


You are conflating various disparate matters here in a way that is rather simplistic, if I may say so.

Mr Farage has said some things that one could fairly interpret, I think, as borderline racist and probably xenophobic. I think he has been careful to make such charges deniable, but nevertheless, one of his recent descriptions of President Obama seemed to me to be tinged with racist sentiment.

I support Mr Farage's well-publicised views on the advisability of the UK leaving the death-grip of the EU which, God willing, will eventually come to pass. In doing so, I do not think you can therefore describe me as a racist or xenophobe, and I would resent such an interpretation of my views.

I think this is moving away from Mr Shaver's original point, which I took to be about the arrogant liberal elite, prepared to embrace democracy only if it produces a result they want. Otherwise, the result is ignored, rejected, or violently protested against.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Yes well when the mob is coddled this is what is produced. 

This is the end result of safe spaces and skipping mid terms because of the despondency felt over the outcome of an election.


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

I am disappointing with shaver starting a thread he knew would only lead down this avenue. I had thought of him as a more high minded poster. 

Sore losers in sport however ungracious they may be at least care and will try harder next time.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Langham said:


> You are conflating various disparate matters here in a way that is rather simplistic, if I may say so.
> 
> Mr Farage has said some things that one could fairly interpret, I think, as borderline racist and probably xenophobic. I think he has been careful to make such charges deniable, but nevertheless, one of his recent descriptions of President Obama seemed to me to be tinged with racist sentiment.
> 
> ...


If you read again, "If one expresses support for Farage *and his views*" in the context of his know racism, the meaning should be clear.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

When you've already labeled him a racist, then the conclusion has already been reached.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

culverwood said:


> I am disappointing with shaver starting a thread he knew would only lead down this avenue. I had thought of him as a more high minded poster.
> 
> Sore losers in sport however ungracious they may be at least care and will try harder next time.


As an American, seeing the rioting that has been occurring across this troubled land of ours in the wake of this most recently passed election cycle, I think it to be a very timely and appropriate thread. It seems we have much to learn in this regard!


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

SG_67 said:


> When you've already labeled him a racist, then the conclusion has already been reached.


If a person uses racist language to describe people of a different race, then I'm inclined to think that person is racist, even if they deny it subsequently. The conclusion has thus already been reached, with justification. 
Do you consider that derogatory language (n-----) being used towards a person of another race *isn't* evidence of racism?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Chouan said:


> If a person uses racist language to describe people of a different race, then I'm inclined to think that person is racist


I agree with this. However, I am also inclined to believe that there is a double standard. Many white people in my family are overtly racist. That is what happens when you live in the south only a few generations removed from slavery. Fortunately, growing up in the military, I was spared this familial indoctrination. I see them for who they are, hate-filled bigots that go to church EVERY Sunday and pray to a Jesus that, in their narrow minds, looked like a hippie from California rather than of middle-eastern descent. It sickens me to have to attend family reunions. I make an appearance to appease my father who was forever guilty that he robbed us of a normal family upbringing. Instead, he gave me the greatest gift that a father can bestow on a child, open-mindedness. Now that my father has passed, I no longer feel obligated to visit these pseudo-Klan rallies, thus sparing my daughter of this inbred mentality. 
Now, in regards to the double standard, I don't like the fact that if a white person speaks ill of another race, he is deemed a racist and shunned. While, at the same time, if a black rapper spouts blatant racial epithets, he or she is given a Grammy.
Hate is hate...


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> No it's quite intact. I'm referring to the larger point.


But Roger wasn't. He was referring to Howard's post. How come nobody here can admit when they're wrong?


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

drlivingston said:


> Now, in regards to the double standard, I don't like the fact that if a white person speaks ill of another race, he is deemed a racist and shunned. While, at the same time, if a black rapper spouts blatant racial epithets, he or she is given a Grammy.
> Hate is hate...


Ah, possibly a topic for another thread....or this one. Can a (white) person speak ill of another race, yet not be deemed a racist? How about just some persons of another race, but not the race as a whole?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Chouan said:


> If a person uses racist language to describe people of a different race, then I'm inclined to think that person is racist, even if they deny it subsequently. The conclusion has thus already been reached, with justification.
> Do you consider that derogatory language (n-----) being used towards a person of another race *isn't* evidence of racism?


Has he done this in public, or are you referring to one person's claim?

It's quite easy to dismiss people by calling them racists and Nazis. It doesn't typically work as the events Tuesday confirmed.

Unless, of course, some 60 million Americans are racists and Nazis.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

FLMike said:


> But Roger wasn't. He was referring to Howard's post. How come nobody here can admit when they're wrong?


yes, I realize what Roger was referring to. How come nobody here can refrain from jumping to conclusions.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> Unless, of course, some 60 million Americans are racists and Nazis.


Based on their body of posts on the Interchange, I honestly think that is what Roger and Chouan believe. At least the racist part.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

FLMike said:


> Based on their body of posts on the Interchange, I honestly think that is what Roger and Chouan believe. At least the racist part.


I wonder then if they also believe that a large portion of their own citizenry are racist? At least in public polling, attitudes toward mass immigration and open borders are quite similar to those held here.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
The truth is that 60 million Americans are fed up with the status quo...a largely dysfunctional Congress, a President who lies to us and conspires with his "league of extraordinary gentlemen" (pun intended) on how to carry off his deceptions; a Supreme Court that has clearly lost sight of it's role to insure constitutional compliance and has instead set out on a campaign to remold societal values; and lastly, but not least, the rejection of a political power couple that has spent the last 40 years committing great wrongs and then simply being allowed to walk away from the responsibility for committing such actions. We can only hope that the days of self absorbed, career politicians are coming to an end.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

As I just said on another post:

Let's, like good sports, give him a chance and all of our good wishes for success.


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