# McLuxury



## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

https://money.cnn.com/2007/08/30/magazines/fortune/mass_vs_class.fortune/index.htm


----------



## Bog (May 13, 2007)

> If enough consumers believe it's luxury and are prepared to shell out accordingly, then luxury it is.


The Emperor Has No Clothes!



> Already, 94.3% of Japanese women in their 20s own a Louis Vuitton item, according to one Japanese research institute.


Chainstore?



> It's a world in which the snobs want to be a little bit populist, the populists want to be a little bit snobbish, and everyone has his fingers crossed that the extraordinary demand of the past decade will continue unabated.


----------



## android (Dec 8, 2004)

I think my most high end luxury possession to be my Swaine Adeney Brigg umbrella. 

Unfortunately, unless someone can read the 1/16" engraving on the gold band, I doubt it'll get much brand recognition. 

I have a variety of "before the fall" Coach leather products, but I've always considered them to be "quality goods", not really luxury goods.

My Omega watch is probably categorized as "luxury" but "mass market luxury" in my opinion, not real luxury.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I was out job hunting today and wore a Sam Hober pocket square. I received compliments ( but no job offers) for it. And seeing as I have $13.15 cash in wallet I did reflect on the need for $35 pocket squares in my present finances. I suppose I could get by with some white cotton snot rags, in fact still be sartorialy superior to 99.99% of whats out and about today. I could even buy the local homeless celebrity lunch and shove bills in the local Amnesty International table. But about then this new money boor almost nailed me in the crosswalk trying to drive his pee yaller sporty car and talk on his cellphone. I imagine if he ever pays $100 for a past life session the hypnotist will be talking to Mad Ludwig or Louise the Sun King. It's a matter of that elusive pursuit of taste and class. The local dealer has 4 more of those cars. I have the only Sam Hober in red and white with silver thread in this town.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

ummmmm...didn't we just discuss this kind of at length in the "Burberry" thread?

Any-who here goes...blah blah blah Regular Joes, Blah Blah Blah Not Fancy, Blah Blah Blah Department Store, Blah Blah Blah Lifeblood, Blah Blah Blah P. Diddy, Blah Blah Blah Not Elite, Blah Blah Blah Paid for with plastic, Blah Blah Blah Unwashed Masses, Blah Blah Blah ghetto, Blah Blah Blah appointment only, Blah Blah Blah "quality", Blah Blah Blah advertize in "urban" magazines, Blah Blah Blah give away tons of their crap to celebrities, Blah Blah Blah loafers, Blah Blah Blah fashion not style, Blah Blah Blah Proles, Blah Blah Blah nothing "luxury" about it...

there...that should sort it all out for you...then next week when this topic comes up, I can just copy and paste this answer...but the title of this thread did remind me of something...


----------



## Bog (May 13, 2007)

I found the article referenced above to be full of analysis that if not groundbreaking was right on and a fine summary as any of the issue at hand.



> "Consumers are much more intelligent than one imagines. There are just a limited number of houses that respect the rules of luxury." By that he means predominantly old-line European firms with time-honored traditions, the highest standards of craftsmanship, innovative design, and a selective distribution policy that usually includes a network of wholly owned stores and strict controls on licensing, discounting, and anything else that could hurt a brand's reputation.


In other words, you can hear the word bespoke being wispered. Edit: "Consumers are much more intelligent than one imagines. These "market mavens" as they are known in the trade, gather on askandyaboutclothes.com and other online forums."



> Drinks companies faced a similar dilemma when rap stars feted Cristal champagne and Courvoisier cognac in their lyrics. That helped boost sales, but it made some executives uncomfortable. Last year rapper Jay-Z called a boycott of Cristal after interpreting remarks by one of the maker's executives as racist.


Step right in with the commentary right here, Gabba.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Bogdanoff said:


> Step right in with the commentary right here, Gabba.


I still drink Cris...because it's good...and because I can't find a bottle of Armand de Brignac to save my life...hmmmm wonder what that's all about???

but yeah...I think Frederic Rouzaud is a dumbass for making comments that would alienate a good percentage of his consumer base...I remember being in a Club in Vegas once, and seeiing Kobe Bryant and this other guy order up like 50 bottles of Cris at $1500 a pop (they literally stopped the music and made a really big deal out of the whole thing)...I suppose that he does this every now and again, but I doubt it's Cris that he orders anymore...I remember hearing about some rapper (can't remember who) who would order up magnums of Cris and dump them on the floor just to show off how rich he was...these guys used to drink that stuff like water...and when regular folks see that their favorite celebs are no longer doing something, they'll stop doing it too...I know a girl (who has a lot of money...well, her father gives her alot of money), any-who...she would literally know when the shipments of Cristal were comming in to her local Bev Mo, and buy the stuff by the case, why you might ask??? Because "that's what J-Lo drinks"...

Like I said in the Burberry post, if I was having a party and needed 3 or 4 bottles of that stuff, I'd have to drive around and hunt for it, now, I'm quite sure I can walk into just about any liquor store (hell even some grocery stores) and pick up as much as I need...


----------



## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> ummmmm...didn't we just discuss this kind of at length in the "Burberry" thread?
> 
> Any-who here goes...blah blah blah Regular Joes, Blah Blah Blah Not Fancy, Blah Blah Blah Department Store, Blah Blah Blah Lifeblood, Blah Blah Blah P. Diddy, Blah Blah Blah Not Elite, Blah Blah Blah Paid for with plastic, Blah Blah Blah Unwashed Masses, Blah Blah Blah ghetto, Blah Blah Blah appointment only, Blah Blah Blah "quality", Blah Blah Blah advertize in "urban" magazines, Blah Blah Blah give away tons of their crap to celebrities, Blah Blah Blah loafers, Blah Blah Blah fashion not style, Blah Blah Blah Proles, Blah Blah Blah nothing "luxury" about it...
> 
> there...that should sort it all out for you...then next week when this topic comes up, I can just copy and paste this answer...but the title of this thread did remind me of something...


Old thing, I quite agree with your assertion on that, what? Jolly good show, and what a witty chum you are.

But what has this to do with your driver licence?

Cheers,
A.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Albert said:


> Old thing, I quite agree with your assertion on that, what? Jolly good show, and what a witty chum you are.
> 
> But what has this to do with your driver licence?
> 
> ...


LoL...no the drivers license is from a movie called _Superbad_ the carachter bought a fake license, and the name was listed simply as "McLovin"...


----------



## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> LoL...no the drivers license is from a movie called _Superbad_ the carachter bought a fake license, and the name was listed simply as "McLovin"...


LOL

How much sixpacks do I have to drink in order to watch this movie without serious head injuries? 

Cheers,
A.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Albert said:


> LOL
> 
> How much sixpacks do I have to drink in order to watch this movie without serious head injuries?
> 
> ...


I'd recommend one before you go in, then just sneak a few mini bottles of Maker's Mark in to mix with your soda once you're inside...LoL...

but seriously...it's a very funny movie...


----------



## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

android said:


> I have a variety of "before the fall" Coach leather products, but I've always considered them to be "quality goods", not really luxury goods.


Me too. I actually love the old saddle-leather Coach stuff; it lasts forever. I'm not into the new things with logos on them.

Most heavily-logo'ed items seem to sell well, but they're just... yecch. I'd wear standard Gucci loafers but wouldn't be caught dead in these:


----------



## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> I'd recommend one before you go in, then just sneak a few mini bottles of Maker's Mark in to mix with your soda once you're inside...LoL...
> 
> but seriously...it's a very funny movie...


Hmm.... 8.4 / 10 on the IMDB scale. Might actually be worth a look! I will line up the alcohol and try to nib down to the DVD place some time.


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> ummmmm...didn't we just discuss this kind of at length in the "Burberry" thread?
> 
> Any-who here goes...blah blah blah Regular Joes, Blah Blah Blah Not Fancy, Blah Blah Blah Department Store, Blah Blah Blah Lifeblood, Blah Blah Blah P. Diddy, Blah Blah Blah Not Elite, Blah Blah Blah Paid for with plastic, Blah Blah Blah Unwashed Masses, Blah Blah Blah ghetto, Blah Blah Blah appointment only, Blah Blah Blah "quality", Blah Blah Blah advertize in "urban" magazines, Blah Blah Blah give away tons of their crap to celebrities, Blah Blah Blah loafers, Blah Blah Blah fashion not style, Blah Blah Blah Proles, Blah Blah Blah nothing "luxury" about it...
> 
> there...that should sort it all out for you...then next week when this topic comes up, I can just copy and paste this answer...but the title of this thread did remind me of something...


Nice picture of you Gabba,How come you didn't smile?


----------



## Silverado Squatter (Jul 19, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> LoL...no the drivers license is from a movie called _Superbad_ the carachter bought a fake license, and the name was listed simply as "McLovin"...


I've never seen this movie, but for what it's worth, the word "Momona" (for the street name) means "fat" in Hawaiian. Don't know whether that was part of anything in the movie.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Silverado Squatter said:


> I've never seen this movie, but for what it's worth, the word "Momona" (for the street name) means "fat" in Hawaiian. Don't know whether that was part of anything in the movie.


LoL...it actually has nothing to do with Hawaii other than the license...I think it was supposed to take place in Nevada, because they mentioned Clark County a few times...


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

People attack materialism. But a true materialist is not so much possessor as curator of physical objects; a bespoke suit cares for it's owner yet demands same, a Tiffany engraved Colt SAA isn't put away with the cylinder spun and fingerprints and you don't smoke in front of a Mattisse. When I hear of people willfully wasting fine alcohol, smashing guitars or wrecking fine automobiles I am angered. Children who don't care for their toys should have them taken away and donated to those without.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Kav said:


> People attack materialism. But a true materialist is not so much possessor as curator of physical objects; a bespoke suit cares for it's owner yet demands same, a Tiffany engraved Colt SAA isn't put away with the cylinder spun and fingerprints and you don't smoke in front of a Mattisse. When I hear of people willfully wasting fine alcohol, smashing guitars or wrecking fine automobiles I am angered. Children who don't care for their toys should have them taken away and donated to those without.


I can aggree with that...kind of...I don't think people should be intentionally wastefull, but my philosophy on nice things is this...what's more impressive, the fact that I have whatever item, or the fact that I actually use whatever item...I mean, it's like, what good is having a Lamborghinni if it's just going to sit in your garadge and be looked at...I have a collection of some very rare cigars, and every now and again, I'll light one up...that's where my philosophy comes into play, yeah, only X amount of people can say that they have them, but even fewer than that can say that they've actually smoked them...I take that attitude towards all of my nice things, I pay too much for this stuff to not use it...


----------



## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Kav said:


> People attack materialism. But a true materialist is not so much possessor as curator of physical objects; a bespoke suit cares for it's owner yet demands same, a Tiffany engraved Colt SAA isn't put away with the cylinder spun and fingerprints and you don't smoke in front of a Mattisse. When I hear of people willfully wasting fine alcohol, smashing guitars or wrecking fine automobiles I am angered. Children who don't care for their toys should have them taken away and donated to those without.


Indeed, the true materialist sees value in elegance and refinement of the material world, as an expression of a higher goal.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Bogdanoff said:


> Indeed, the true materialist sees value in elegance and refinement of the material world, as an expression of a higher goal.


not necessarily...once again, this is all about percieved value...I mean, somebody might collect Matchbooks, and could care less about designer labels...I , for example, have a closet full of couture, but I get more turned on by a rare pair of Nikes...but even then, you have a sub-culture of sneaker enthusiasts, some take it to extremes, there are guys out there who will literally shrink wrap a pair of shoes and tape the box shut so that light can't get to them, I dont understand this level of fanaticism...the same goes for anything...what's the value of something that never gets used??? once you buy that thing, whatever it may be, the only value it really has is to you...most people dont care when they see somebody with something nice, so if we rerally are doing these things for ourselves, and not just trying to throw our new worth (or our credit limit as the case may be with most) in people's faces, we should just enjoy our "toys" and not worry about anything more than what they mean to us...


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*And the "new" luxury -- mass v class*

https://money.cnn.com/2007/08/30/magazines/fortune/mass_vs_class.fortune/index.htm


----------



## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> I know a girl (who has a lot of money...well, her father gives her alot of money), any-who...she would literally know when the shipments of Cristal were comming in to her local Bev Mo, and buy the stuff by the case, why you might ask??? Because "that's what J-Lo drinks"...


What a failure of a parent.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

hopkins_student said:


> What a failure of a parent.


The funny thing is that both her brothers are normal...and actually, she's pretty cool to hang around with, but she has no concept of "the real world"...her life basically consists of playing tennis, working about 2 hours a day (for her father's company), partying on weekends, and shopping...but she's a pretty good example of consumerism run amok...granted she has a bit more disposable income available to her than many out there have, but the concept is the same...it's basically hero-worship for grownups...


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

At least in one part of Africa the people live in round huts, which are just big enough for a Queen Size Bed. Not sure where the children sleep. They cook outside. I think the roof is made of palm leaves.

Even the poor in America live in Luxury compare with some places in the world.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

WA, Livinig in a small round hut and cooking outside is called appropriate technology. I did a Folsum bison kill site excavation up in Cheyanne territory. The property owner and host produced a modern canvas TeePee of Cheyanne pattern, they being offset to take the winds slamming into the Rockies. Everybody else settled into this nice rented trailer. I crawled into the TeePee with a hardwood fire in the center and promptly fell fast asleep. Come morning My coworkers staggered out still weary from being buffeted all night, the propane heater failing and the general noise.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

WA, Livinig in a small round hut and cooking outside is called appropriate technology. I did a Folsum bison kill site excavation up in Cheyanne territory. The property owner and host produced a modern canvas TeePee of Cheyanne pattern, they being offset to take the winds slamming into the Rockies. Everybody else settled into this nice rented trailer. I crawled into the TeePee with a hardwood fire in the center and promptly fell fast asleep. Come morning My coworkers staggered out still weary from being buffeted all night, the propane heater failing and the general noise. I've learned that when in West Virginia to look for an old hewn log dogrun cabin, A certain City Brownstones and all the traditional dwellings wherever I am. Barring htem, It's Motel 6 and Tom will ' leave the light on.'


----------



## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> The funny thing is that both her brothers are normal...and actually, she's pretty cool to hang around with, but she has no concept of "the real world"...her life basically consists of playing tennis, working about 2 hours a day (for her father's company), partying on weekends, and shopping...but she's a pretty good example of consumerism run amok...granted she has a bit more disposable income available to her than many out there have, but the concept is the same...it's basically hero-worship for grownups...


The failure is not so much in the resulting materialism or celebrity worship (which by the way really is pathetic for anyone), but because he couldn't at least get her to worship respectable celebrities.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

hopkins_student said:


> The failure is not so much in the resulting materialism or celebrity worship (which by the way really is pathetic for anyone), but because he couldn't at least get her to worship respectable celebrities.


I dunno...I mean, I guess it all depends on where you are in life...I don't see her trying to emulate J-Lo as being any more ridiculous than the guys here who salivate when they see a picture of prince charles, or the ones who agonize over whether or not they are using "trad" toothpaste or some other nonsense...or the ones who get like offended because people at the grocery store arent wearing tuxedos, or even just the ones who worry about breaking "the rules" of dress, it's the inability to think for one's self to a certain extent, and I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with it, I mean, we all have our quirks...but I think it's important to realize that they are just that, quirks, because if you don't keep them somewhat in check, that's when they become unhealthy...at least...that's the way I see it...


----------



## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> but yeah...I think Frederic Rouzaud is a dumbass for making comments that would alienate a good percentage of his consumer base........I remember hearing about some rapper (can't remember who) who would order up magnums of Cris and dump them on the floor just to show off how rich he was...


So he is a dumbass because he chooses to cater to individuals who truly appreciate his champagne versus some idiot who spills it on the floor to impress his high school fan base before no doubt drinking the remainder straight from the bottle. I'd be curious to hear Rouzaud's reaction to the dissappearance of his champagne from rap videos as well as the minute, if any, decrease in sales.

MrR


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

MrRogers said:


> So he is a dumbass because he chooses to cater to individuals who truly appreciate his champagne versus some idiot who spills it on the floor to impress his high school fan base before no doubt drinking the remainder straight from the bottle. I'd be curious to hear Rouzaud's reaction to the dissappearance of his champagne from rap videos as well as the minute, if any, decrease in sales.
> 
> MrR


Hey, it's money in his pocket either way...If I have a product, and people are not only buying it, but giving me tons of free advertizing, I'm not going to put them down...that's why he's a dumbass...it isnt anything all that special, it's just a bottle of fermented grape juice...I mean, like I said, I like Cristal, I think it's good, to be honest it's my favorite wine, but I probably wouldnt have given it a second look had P. Diddy been drinking Krug when I was a lad of 19 and acquired my first bottle...


----------



## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Hey, it's money in his pocket either way...If I have a product, and people are not only buying it, but giving me tons of free advertizing, I'm not going to put them down...that's why he's a dumbass...it isnt anything all that special, it's just a bottle of fermented grape juice...I mean, like I said, I like Cristal, I think it's good, to be honest it's my favorite wine, but I probably wouldnt have given it a second look had P. Diddy been drinking Krug when I was a lad of 19 and acquired my first bottle...


Gabba....it's just a bottle of fermented grape juice? You're a cigar guy, is a Davidoff Don Perignon and a curly head arturo fuente both really just rolls of tobacco leaves? You are unique in that you are into the hip-hop lifestyle and actually buy bottles of cristal. Do you think most of the people who listen to rap take Jay-'s or whomever's recommendation and go out and buy the stuff? For them its wishing they had the $$ to buy cristal versus wishing they had the $$ to buy Krug. I doubt cristal's bottom line was affected.

MrR

Just for the record I like veuve cliquot ponsardin better than either


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

MrRogers said:


> Gabba....it's just a bottle of fermented grape juice? You're a cigar guy, is a Davidoff Don Perignon and a curly head arturo fuente both really just rolls of tobacco leaves? You are unique in that you are into the hip-hop lifestyle and actually buy bottles of cristal. Do you think most of the people who listen to rap take Jay-'s or whomever's recommendation and go out and buy the stuff? For them its wishing they had the $$ to buy cristal versus wishing they had the $$ to buy Krug. I doubt cristal's bottom line was affected.
> 
> MrR


Fundamentally the Davidoff and the curly head are, indeed, the same thing, granted alot more goes into the Davi, but, I'm sure that there has been casual cigar smokers who have been given a Dom and, while they couldnt fully appreciate it, knew they were smoking something special, just because somebody can't fully appreciate something, doesnt mean that they can't at least enjoy it. I called Cris fermented grape juice just to make a point that the brand shouldnt take it's self so seriously, anybody who has the money to buy the stuff should be entitled to, regardless of how they choose to appreciate it...I can aggree that there are many people out there who might listen to Jay Z rap about Cris, and yet couldnt afford it, but, I've known people (ghetto people) who will buy a $300 bottle of wine on payday, then go without dinner for the next two weeks, these are the same people who make sure that their kids have Jordans on their feet, yet they sign them up for the free lunch programs, and complain about how expensive school supplies are, they have F'd up priorities, but their money still spends like everybody else's and if I was a business owner, I'd be willing to take it...I'm sure that these are the ones who stopped buying it, and I do have a feeling that they are selling less...I remember a while ago, throwing a party, and not being able to find 3 bottles in the immediate area, now, I can walk into just about any liquor store and find at least half a case...like I said, if it's money in your pocket, to me, it seems foolish to turn away paying customers...



> Just for the record I like veuve cliquot ponsardin better than either


I still maintain that Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame is the best value in the entire world of wine, it can easily hang with bottles that cost 3 or 4 times as much...


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> WA, Livinig in a small round hut and cooking outside is called appropriate technology. I did a Folsum bison kill site excavation up in Cheyanne territory. The property owner and host produced a modern canvas TeePee of Cheyanne pattern, they being offset to take the winds slamming into the Rockies. Everybody else settled into this nice rented trailer. I crawled into the TeePee with a hardwood fire in the center and promptly fell fast asleep. Come morning My coworkers staggered out still weary from being buffeted all night, the propane heater failing and the general noise. I've learned that when in West Virginia to look for an old hewn log dogrun cabin, A certain City Brownstones and all the traditional dwellings wherever I am. Barring htem, It's Motel 6 and Tom will ' leave the light on.'


Being in a cramped trailer would not be restful and probably has stail air in it too.

Is there a website about the different types of teepees?


----------



## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

It's funny, I never drank Cristal *because* of it's association with hip-hop, so maybe I am the guy the CEO was talking about. We have been given a couple of cases by clients and I have always enjoyed them although there are numerous Champagnes which I enjoy more.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com is the most exaustive resource online. Most of the information is on their old website www.tipis.org The classic book is The Indian Tipi by Reginald and Gladys Laubin. You can order it direct from www.dixiegunworks.com just enter tipi in the search box if you don't get sidetracked by all the other neat stuff.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> is the most exaustive resource online. Most of the information is on their old website www.tipis.org The classic book is The Indian Tipi by Reginald and Gladys Laubin. You can order it direct from www.dixiegunworks.com just enter tipi in the search box if you don't get sidetracked by all the other neat stuff.


Thanks Kav.

The book is in a local library. Some nice pictures on the website.

https://www.visitcashmere.com/pionvilandmu.html At this museum one of the native indians made a teepee for the museum in the traditional way. Probably elk hide. Don't remember if she was born in a teepee or not, but spent a good portion of her life living in teepees from childhood till the end of her life. The sad part is the museum didn't have it put in a building and a few years after she made it some kids destroyed it one night. What the museum did with it after that I don't know. That is the only authentic teepee I have ever seen or been in. I guess it wouldn't be to hard to make a canvase one.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Kav said:


> www.tipis-tepees-teepees.com is the most exaustive resource online. Most of the information is on their old website www.tipis.org The classic book is The Indian Tipi by Reginald and Gladys Laubin. You can order it direct from www.dixiegunworks.com just enter tipi in the search box if you don't get sidetracked by all the other neat stuff.


This reminds me of a story...this friend of mine owns a paving company, I guess, once, this guy "borrowed" some equipment from him and ended up skedaddling. Well, my friend was able to use some resources to track the guy down when (aparently the moron tried to sell the stuff with the company info spray painted on it)...so my friend goes to confront this guy, and sees that he is living in a Tepee. He says it was at the same time so funny and pathetic that he didnt have the heart, and he didnt even bother with he guy...


----------

