# Whisky preferences



## shoefetish

Good evening all.
My grocer, a St. Bernard in human form, just delivered a couple of bottles of Talisker and Aberlour 10yrs old and a bottle of Ballantine's 17yrs old. So I thought this would be a good time to ask what whiskies one enjoys and the brands of preference. I am hoping for taste profiles, price factors, rarity rather than single malt versus blends bashing. There must be whiskies I have overlooked over the years and want to do right by Scotland, Japan, etc. I could of course buy a book like Jim Murray's Whisky Bible but would appreciate more than one person's view.

Presently I have over 60 bottles of malts and blends, a number of them open. My taste runs the whole gamut from Islays to relatively bland blends (Bells?) And yes my liver is fine thank you

So gents and ladies help me out here. Many thanks.


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## ChubbyTiger

Are we limiting this discussion to Scotch type whiskies or are you also interested in Irish and Bourbon whiskey?

CT


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## JBZ

I'll chime in on Bourbon, given my limited knowledge of Scotch (although the 10 year old Glenmorganie has always served me well). I've done this at length in the past, so descriptions will be somewhat brief.

Makers Mark - yes, it's over-exposed and it's not "top shelf" (whatever that means). However, it's a great bourbon to start with - slightly sweet, with a dry finish and very smooth - I order it often in restaurants simply because I know everyone has it

Woodford Reserve - another approachable bourbon - more smokey (or woody) than MM, but still a nice finish

Knob Creek - smokey and a bit harsh (in my experience) - not my favorite, but others love it

Bakers/Bookers - two different Jim Beam products, each with a higher proof than normal Bourbon - Bakers is the more approachable of the two (proof is about 107, if memory serves), with a strong, full flavor - Bookers is anywhere from 120 to 130 proof and is very strong - I like it occasionally, but not always - it's quite simply like no other bourbon I've ever tried

Blantons - very good, but almost too smooth in my experience

Eagle Rare 10 year old - extremely good, particularly for the price (under $30) - I rate this one very high - balances the smoke and the sweet very well - there is a 17 year old that gets good ratings, but I've never had it

Buffalo Trace - another good one, considering the price (again under $30, maybe under $25) - a good flavor, but not quite a full as I would like

A.H. Hirsch - extremely good and, unfortunately, no longer made - this has driven up the price - I'm not sure whether it's worth what you have to pay for it, but it's a fine, fine bourbon - there are two versions, a 12 year old and a 20 year old - the 12 year old is still readily available and runs over $70 a bottle - the 20 year old is not readily available, but there may still be bottles out there - I think these retail for around $200, if you can find them

The above list comes from my personal experience. There are, of course, many other brands. If you want to know more about bourbon, see the below website (it has a discussion forum and everything).

www.straightbourbon.com


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## southbound35

JBZ, what are your thoughts on Basil Hayden? It's my favorite. From what you said about Blanton's (which I have not tried), it might fit into the too smooth category.

I agree that Makers Mark is the best of the non-high-end bourbons. Much better than Crown Royal (albeit Canadian, bourbon-style whiskey) IMO at a lower price. I, too, drink it at restaurants and bar without a good selection of bourbon.

Agreed on your Woodford Reserve, Knob Creek, Bakers/Bookers opinions as well. I'll have to try some of the others you mentioned.


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## JBZ

Basil Hayden is on my "to try" list, but I've not had it. I've read some of the reviews, and it sounds quite good. It looks like it's a little on the expensive side (over $40), but not outrageous. Perhaps the next time I'm in a liquor store, I'll grab a bottle.

Blanton's is a good bourbon with a good flavor. I just wish there was a bit more "kick" (and I by no means enjoy harsh alcohol, for the most part).


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## Charley

Bourbons - Buy any of them. Drink enough and it will be real good. Maybe a bit of gingerale in the first drink.

Old Fitz 86 is a pretty good lower rung bourbon though. Along with Old Barton, which is very similar.

If someone else is buying - Woodford Reserve, no ice, and slight bit of water seems to help release the flavors. I got a couple of bottles from the first botteling from the first barrels that were actually made at the restarted Woodford Reserve distillery. Pretty good.


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## pendennis

> quote:_Originally posted by Charley_
> 
> Bourbons - Buy any of them. Drink enough and it will be real good. Maybe a bit of gingerale in the first drink.
> 
> Old Fitz 86 is a pretty good lower rung bourbon though. Along with Old Barton, which is very similar.
> 
> If someone else is buying - Woodford Reserve, no ice, and slight bit of water seems to help release the flavors. I got a couple of bottles from the first botteling from the first barrels that were actually made at the restarted Woodford Reserve distillery. Pretty good.


Charley must be a real Kentuckian. He's the first to mention Very Old Barton that I can remember on most any thread anywhere.

Very Old Barton - a favorite of mine for over 35 years
Old Fitz 86, if I can't get VOB
Woodford Reserve
Gentleman Jack - not as full flavored, but nice neat
Jack Daniels Black - Because everyone has it, not because it's in fifth place.

Dennis
If you wish to control the future, then create it.
Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae


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## VMan

I like Johnnie Walker Black Label as an easy-to-find and consistently decent whisky that I would drink to enjoy. Bourbons are alright, but I prefer the smoother and earthier taste of Scotch.

If I am drinking a little heavier I'll drink a cheaper scotch, Clan MacGregor runs about $12 a liter, but when mixed with cola it shares a striking resembelance with higher-priced bottles. If I'm drinking a half to a full liter of whisky during the course of the night, I can't always afford it to be an $80 bottle.


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## 16128

I'm a single-malt kind of gel. Talisker and Cardhu are my favorites but I always have Glenlivet 12 or 18 around the house.

For Irish drink, I like Jameson's.

*"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


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## Mr. Knightly

Evan Williams Single Barrel - I think it goes toe-to-toe with $100 scotches and blows away every bourbon I've ever had. For $30, can't be beat.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


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## Mr. Di Liberti

#1 - Glenmorangie Port Wood Finish
#2 - Knob Creek

Anthony

Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage ~ Theodore Roosevelt


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## The Gabba Goul

Just my $0.02

The best (all things considered) whisk(e)ys on out there today are...

Bourbon-Makers (very approchable, (relalitively) smooth, readily available, and very affordable)...

Blended Scotch-Royal Salute (smooth, easy to appreciate, has a bit of "bite" to it, but is by no means harsh, a bit pricey as far as blended scotches go, but by no means expensive)...

Single Malts-Glenfeddich 18 YO Ancient Reserve (Smooth as milk, spot on taste, and fantastic finish)...

I dont drink Canadian or Irish whiskeys that often, so I cant really say which ones I feel are the best...

but, now, the very best whiskeys (price and availibility not an option) IMO are...

Bourbon-Blantons (smooth as velvet, sweet [I get a maple syrup note from it but most people dont aggree], zero "bite", goes down like water)...

Blended Scotch-Blue Label (everything that's good about Royal Salute, only better, and with that typical Johnnie Walker taste [only alot more sophisticated])

Single Malt-Glenfeddich XXX (nectar...no other words can describe it...I'd imagine a better whiskey exists out there somewhere, but, I have yet ot taste it)...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## iammatt

Bourbon is Pappy van Winkles.
Scotch is Highland Park or some of the Cadenheads bottlings.


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## shoefetish

ChubbyTiger, any whisky, whiskey is fine thank you.
I am copying all the taste/price comments here onto my non-electronic PDA - a bashed up Mulberry pocketbook to help me next time I go whisky shopping.

Unfortunately not many whisky brands are to be found in Singapore so most of my purchases are from DFS.

Funny about Blanton. 2 friends and I just polished off a bottle of the Single Barrel yesterday evening. Decided to call it a day after we were about half way through the second bottle. And how true about Blanton being very smooth. Reason why we could drink so much of it

I do enjoy the stronger tasting whiskies. Talisker is reserved for the colder evenings as are Laphroaig and Lagavulin. 
Blends like JW Black Label, Teachers, Grants, older bottlings of Famouse Grouse (present ones, I find, are too sweet), Chivas 18yrs, Ballantine's and Bell's are also high on my list. 

Another brand I enjoy, which is generally rubbished by whisky aficionados, is Glenfiddich. Especially the non vintage statement malt which has sadly been discontinued (when you open the cap the pear aroma hits you big time). From time to time do manage to acqire a bottle from someone who has a few bottles sitting around.

Have a number of vintage bottlings of various malts and blends and personally I tend to enjoy them more than the present ones. Richer, more complex taste. To my mind anyway.

Johnnie Walker Blue Label is lovely but the price!. Have 2 unopened bottles from DFS and its "should I or shouldn't I". Maybe will trade them for some less "rarified" whisky. 

BTW what is the opinion about freezing the JW Gold Label before consumption? Tried it but didn't set off any fireworks. Have a bottle in the freezer right now. Will offload it to my vodka drinking friends.

Many thanks for all your input. Its more easliy understandable then comments like "smells like white flowers, red fruits or old gym socks"

Also its nice to see lower priced whiskies mentioned. "Serious" whisky lovers always seem to mention the megabuck, sell your firstborn to acquire, ones.


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## gmac

Anyone have an opinion on Glenkinchie?

Only that its made about a mile from where I grew up but I, like most other Scots of my generation, have not developed a taste for whisky.

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## Karl89

GMAC,

I knew there was something wrong with you - with the lefty politics and all - but now you tell us you hail from Scotland and don't have a taste for whisky? It beggars belief! 

Karl


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## shoefetish

> _Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> Anyone have an opinion on Glenkinchie?
> /quote]
> 
> Have only tried the 10yrs old. Its light and malty with a lemony aroma. Slightly smoky. Good if you are not a peat monster. If you have been a blends drinker this is a good start to malts. Less heavy than, say, JW Black Label.


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## globetrotter

I find that the scotches I like are "bourbon-like". given a choice, makers mark or woodford reserve. 

I started to like high end, aged tequila this year, as well.


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## gmac

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> 
> GMAC,
> 
> I knew there was something wrong with you - with the lefty politics and all - but now you tell us you hail from Scotland and don't have a taste for whisky? It beggars belief!
> 
> Karl


Strange but true......

When I became of drinking age very few of my peers were whisky drinkers and that remains the case today. My father doesn't drink whisky either.

Glenkinchie is one I will drink occasionally as it is from where I grew up and it is not too peaty.

I tried JW Blue Label in Seattle recently - it was nice but I understand it is very expensive. Saddam's favourite tipple apparently.

I do find that there is a bit of a cult around single malts here in North America with everyone seeking out the most expensive and exclusive brands rather than just enjoying what is to hand.

Left wing politics? I'm a third way centrist all the way, only in the great republic to the south would I be classed as a lefty. However, I'm always in for a drink and some banter with men of god faith regardless of political stripe

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## rip

I was recently introduced to Compass Box Eleuthera, a vatted malt whisky (92 proof) which, I must admit, set a new taste standard for whiskies. Heretofore I have been a single malt devotee and, given the difficulty of finding Compass Box whiskies, will probably remain so. However, for one bright and shining moment...

Esse Quam Videre


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## Tomasso

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> I do find that there is a bit of a cult around single malts here in North America with everyone seeking out the most expensive and exclusive brands rather than just enjoying what is to hand.


A friend of mine is the spirits buyer for a large U.S. liquor retailer. He has been there/done that and is considered an "expert". His thoughts:

a.) you don't have to spend a ton of money for a great whisky, 
b.) at a certain price point you're buying rarity, not necessarily the best whisky, and 
c.) age isn't everything.


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## rick lombardo

I would agree with Tomasso's friend. We do tend to get swayed by the age of whiskeys. I must say though that the Macallan 18yr.old is smoother with a better finish than the 12yr old. But age is not always the yardstick to measure taste. Which brings us to the real reason we should be drinking anyway. It is what you taste, how it appeals to each of us individually.
I have tasted about 40 different single malts and Bourbons in the past few years and I can only ever remember a handfull. The few that made me want to take the bottle with me when I left. The ones that stay on your tongue and your heart well past the last sip.
My favourites are to date.
Lagavulin 16 yr. old
Macallan 18yr.old 
Ardbeg 10yr.old
Bowmore Mariner
Wild Turkey101(maybe my fav)
Knob Creek(so damn banal)
Old Grandad(it tastes like the old west)


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## ragman900

Does anyone favor Bruichladdich 15 yr.I'm in great anticipation of their just announced 186 proof due in 10 years.[]

"Dressing well is the best revenge"


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## Tomasso

> quote:_Originally posted by rick lombardo_
> 
> I have tasted about 40 different single malts and Bourbons in the past few years and I can only ever remember a handfull. The few that made me want to take the bottle with me when I left.


Rick, I'll be tasting a bit more than 40 at this event, and I'll be leaving with a bottle of anything that strikes my fancy.


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## EL72

> quote:_Originally posted by ragman900_
> 
> Does anyone favor Bruichladdich 15 yr.I'm in great anticipation of their just announced 186 proof due in 10 years.[]
> 
> "Dressing well is the best revenge"


If you like peaty and smoky, then yes. Not my favorite but it's a matter of taste.

I favor highland malts aged in sherry or port casks like Dalwhinnie, Glendronach, Macallan, Glenmorangie portwood, Glenfiddich 15 yr Solera...

That said, JW blue is sublime but at $200 a bottle...


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## The Gabba Goul

I just can't get into Bruichladdich 15 (or Bruichladdich at all for that matter)...I really wanted to like this brand...but, considering their price, and the fact that it's somewhat hard to find, you'd think that it was some kind of really good exclusive type stuff...but in reality, I find it's slight harshness belies it's age, if I were to taste this stuff without having seen what bottle it came from, I'd guess it was just your average middle of the road 10 year old Islay...

Does anybody like Cragganmore (sp?)...I've tasted this stuff a few times and I think I could really get into it, but the 84 bottling is kind of hard to find, and I was wondering what people thought of the more recent vintages (I believe that there were two others)...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## shoefetish

> quote:_Originally posted by Tomasso_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> I do find that there is a bit of a cult around single malts here in North America with everyone seeking out the most expensive and exclusive brands rather than just enjoying what is to hand.
> 
> 
> 
> How true. I remember the cigar craze of the 90s. Whilst everyone was into Double coronas, Robustos and Churchills I used to squirrel away Cuban coronas with at least 10 years in the box as nobody wanted them Size did matter then.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A friend of mine is the spirits buyer for a large U.S. liquor retailer. He has been there/done that and is considered an "expert". His thoughts:
> 
> a.) you don't have to spend a ton of money for a great whisky,
> b.) at a certain price point you're buying rarity, not necessarily the best whisky, and
> c.) age isn't everything.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Right again - to a point I am afraid.
> a) 100% agreed. If your taste runs to a $30 bottle lucky you.
> 
> b) Rarity is the biggest bulls**t producers are fobbing on us. In Aberdeen I have seen 30yrs old Macallan waiting for shipment. Rare if you believe Macallan. But the shipment was not in cases, they were in bl**dy pallets. And that's only what I saw. What about previous shipments and those to come?
> 
> c) As an example: the 10yrs old Laphroiag may be a hospital in a bottle(all that iodine) but the 30yrs old is so sublime. As it takes time for tastebuds to evolve buying something just because its old doesn't neccessarily cut it.
> 
> A further take on what GMAC commented. What I sometimes do is buy the very expensive brands from DFS and then swop them with other drinkers for a lot more bottles of the "ordinary stuff". I am surprised at the number of tongueless and noseless whisker imbibers with deep pockets.
Click to expand...


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## rick lombardo

{Rick, I'll be tasting a bit more than 40 at this event, and I'll be leaving with a bottle of anything that strikes my fancy.}

I am thoroughly jelous.
Living in Montreal, I do not get the opportunities to join Whiskey Clubs or buy out of my province except on trips ) that's where I get most of my bourbons)
Where will you be? Have fun and tell us all about it.


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## KenR

Rick,

Lagavulin and Ardbeg? Wow, you really like the strong stuff! []


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## rick lombardo

In my area (Montreal) I seem to be in the minority.


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## rick lombardo

c) (As an example: the 10yrs old Laphroiag may be a hospital in a bottle(all that iodine) but the 30yrs old is so sublime. As it takes time for tastebuds to evolve buying something just because its old doesn't neccessarily cut it)
I saw it on a whiskey site. I like the 10yr.old quite a bit myself. I am pleased to know someone actually tasted the dram. Did you purchase the bottle or sampled it at a tasting. Either way. Congrats.


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## ragman900

> _Originally posted by The Gabba Goul_
> 
> I just can't get into Bruichladdich 15 (or Bruichladdich at all for that matter)...I really wanted to like this brand...but, considering their price, and the fact that it's somewhat hard to find, you'd think that it was some kind of really good exclusive type stuff...but in reality, I find it's slight harshness belies it's age, if I were to taste this stuff without having seen what bottle it came from, I'd guess it was just your average middle of the road 10 year old Islay...
> 
> You really got to love the peatyness in order to enjoy anything Islay.
> 
> "Dressing well is the best revenge"


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## shoefetish

> quote:_Originally posted by rick lombardo_
> 
> c) (As an example: the 10yrs old Laphroiag may be a hospital in a bottle(all that iodine) but the 30yrs old is so sublime. As it takes time for tastebuds to evolve buying something just because its old doesn't neccessarily cut it)
> I saw it on a whiskey site. I like the 10yr.old quite a bit myself. I am pleased to know someone actually tasted the dram. Did you purchase the bottle or sampled it at a tasting. Either way. Congrats.


Hi Rick,
ah, a fellow peat monster
The 30yrs old was sitting in my regular pub for quite a while so the owner let me buy it for the dealer's price he paid. As a reciprocal gesture I decided to share it with him. It is sweeter, more layered and has a sherry nose (because of this it comes across as less peaty) compared with the 10yrs old. If I was a man of means this will be my daily dram. One thing about older Islay malts, they are so rich you cannot consume more than a few drams. Else it becomes cloying.

This pub also has a bottle of Macallan 1946 and 1949 on display. Been on the shelf for ages but my subtle hints are not working :-(


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## rick lombardo

> quote:_Originally posted by shoefetish_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by rick lombardo_
> 
> c) (As an example: the 10yrs old Laphroiag may be a hospital in a bottle(all that iodine) but the 30yrs old is so sublime. As it takes time for tastebuds to evolve buying something just because its old doesn't neccessarily cut it)
> I saw it on a whiskey site. I like the 10yr.old quite a bit myself. I am pleased to know someone actually tasted the dram. Did you purchase the bottle or sampled it at a tasting. Either way. Congrats.
> 
> 
> 
> I will forever live vicariously through you.
> Thanks for sharing.
> Long live the peat.
> 
> Hi Rick,
> ah, a fellow peat monster
> The 30yrs old was sitting in my regular pub for quite a while so the owner let me buy it for the dealer's price he paid. As a reciprocal gesture I decided to share it with him. It is sweeter, more layered and has a sherry nose (because of this it comes across as less peaty) compared with the 10yrs old. If I was a man of means this will be my daily dram. One thing about older Islay malts, they are so rich you cannot consume more than a few drams. Else it becomes cloying.
> 
> This pub also has a bottle of Macallan 1946 and 1949 on display. Been on the shelf for ages but my subtle hints are not working :-(
Click to expand...


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## shoefetish

> quote:


I will forever live vicariously through you.
Thanks for sharing.
Long live the peat.


> quote:


Bro, this I will promise. If you are in Singapore in the near future there is a bottle of 25yrs old Macallan waiting to be drunk.
Don't take too long as thirst is a dangerous thing.

From one peat monster to another.

If you are into Laphroiag or Ardbeg thats fine as well as I am well stocked.


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## rick lombardo

Thank-you for the enticing offer. Singapore is not in my plans in the near future, but one can always dream.


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## rick lombardo

Hey Shoefetish:
What is your take on bourbon. I love the stuff, but can't get much of it in Montreal.


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## shoefetish

> quote:_Originally posted by rick lombardo_
> 
> Hey Shoefetish:
> What is your take on bourbon. I love the stuff, but can't get much of it in Montreal.


Sorry Rick, but haven't tried very many bourbons/whiskeys. One reason I started this topic. Gained quite an insight from other members.

Tried JD Old No.7 in the past. Find it a bit sweet with a vanilla nose as well as bananas â€" donâ€™t know if itâ€™s just me.

Right now have an opened bottle of Wild Turkey 8 years old, 101 proof â€" a rough rider with a buzz. Also an unopened bottle of JD Monogram. Bought 2 bottles a few years ago. Finished one, saving the other. A bourbon truly worth searching for. Floral and vanilla nose with a woody aftertaste. As I understand it was only for the Far East/Asian DFS market. Haven't been able to locate any more bottles other than Ebay.

Latest acquisition, an old bottling of Cardhu 12yrs old Single Malt(before they went pure malt and back again) and a bottle of JW Black Label from the â€˜70â€™s (this was when the smoke was piled on). The weekend will be woozy

Cheers!


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## rick lombardo

I have a bottle of JD MONOGRAM myself(unopened). It was given to me as a gift. I have never seen it in the US or Canada. Now I know why.
If you have a chance to try WILD TURKEY RARE BREED. I think you will be surprised a maybe converted somewhat. It is potent and peppery and explodes in the mouth. The only bourbon to date that I may choose over a single malt.
Be well.
Talk soon


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## jcusey

> quote:_Originally posted by rip_
> 
> I was recently introduced to Compass Box Eleuthera, a vatted malt whisky (92 proof) which, I must admit, set a new taste standard for whiskies. Heretofore I have been a single malt devotee and, given the difficulty of finding Compass Box whiskies, will probably remain so. However, for one bright and shining moment...


If you're fortunate enough to live in a state where shipping liquor is not a felony, you might want to consider ordering from an online liquor store. Most of the good ones carry various flavors of Compass Box. Eleuthera is indeed a good one.


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## jcusey

> quote:_Originally posted by shoefetish_
> 
> Also its nice to see lower priced whiskies mentioned. "Serious" whisky lovers always seem to mention the megabuck, sell your firstborn to acquire, ones.


Indeed. Some cheaper ones that I really like:

*Black Bottle*: a 10 YO blended Scotch containing whisky from all 7 active Islay distilleries, and you can really tell. Every whiff brings a different whisky, although it seems to me that Lagavulin predominates. A real gem at an excellent price if you can find it.

*Scapa 14 YO*: along with Highland Park, one of the two functioning Orkney distilleries. Where Highland Park is brooding and smoky, however, Scapa is sweet and pleasant. I love it.

*Bushmills 10 YO*: this one gets a lot of criticism for being one-dimensional. It may be, but I like it. Sweet and light and very enjoyable.


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## rick lombardo

If you're fortunate enough to live in a state where shipping liquor is not a felony, you might want to consider ordering from an online liquor store. Most of the good ones carry various flavors of Compass Box. Eleuthera is indeed a good one.
[/quote]

Unfortunatly I live in Montreal and cannot get any alcohol shipped to me. This limits my selection but satisfies my banker.


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## shoefetish

> quote:_Originally posted by jcusey_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by shoefetish_
> 
> Also its nice to see lower priced whiskies mentioned. "Serious" whisky lovers always seem to mention the megabuck, sell your firstborn to acquire, ones.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. Some cheaper ones that I really like:
> 
> *Black Bottle*: a 10 YO blended Scotch containing whisky from all 7 active Islay distilleries, and you can really tell. Every whiff brings a different whisky, although it seems to me that Lagavulin predominates. A real gem at an excellent price if you can find it.
> 
> *Scapa 14 YO*: along with Highland Park, one of the two functioning Orkney distilleries. Where Highland Park is brooding and smoky, however, Scapa is sweet and pleasant. I love it.
> 
> *Bushmills 10 YO*: this one gets a lot of criticism for being one-dimensional. It may be, but I like it. Sweet and light and very enjoyable.
Click to expand...

Tried the Black Bottle 10yrs in Banglore,India. Wonderful, wonderful and so low priced. Silly me, should have bought a case and shipped it to myself.

Never acquired a bottle of Scapa - on my to buy list now. Thanks for the taste notes.

And yes jcusey, damn the critics, Bushmill IS nice. Occasionally take a bottle with me whilst eating out. We don't need to wax lyrical about every whisky we drink me thinks.

On the low side, looks like many malts are increasing in price. Some brands here have gone up by as much as US$80(Macallan 25yrs).

Just heard today that La Maison Du Whisky has opened an outlet in Singapore and its walking distance from my work place so my lunch time tomorrow is take care of


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## JBZ

In reading this thread, one benefit I note in drinking bourbon over scotch is the price. You can get very fine bourbon on the cheap (for example Eagle Rare, Buffalo Trace, and Maker's Mark, all of which can be had for under $30). Even really expensive bourbon (save a few) seldom exceeds the $100 mark. Scotch, on the other hand, can be a very expensive habit, indeed.


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## rick lombardo

> quote:_Originally posted by JBZ_
> 
> In reading this thread, one benefit I note in drinking bourbon over scotch is the price. You can get very fine bourbon on the cheap (for example Eagle Rare, Buffalo Trace, and Maker's Mark, all of which can be had for under $30). Even really expensive bourbon (save a few) seldom exceeds the $100 mark. Scotch, on the other hand, can be a very expensive habit, indeed.


Not to mention that there are some awfull scotch's around $100.00.


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## shoefetish

> quote:_Originally posted by JBZ_
> 
> In reading this thread, one benefit I note in drinking bourbon over scotch is the price. You can get very fine bourbon on the cheap (for example Eagle Rare, Buffalo Trace, and Maker's Mark, all of which can be had for under $30). Even really expensive bourbon (save a few) seldom exceeds the $100 mark. Scotch, on the other hand, can be a very expensive habit, indeed.


On the practical side there is the cost of casks. American Oak used for bourbon/whiskey costs approx. 50 British Pounds but used sherry casks for scotch run to 250 Pounds. Also bourbon is usually aged 4-8 yrs. Scotch rounds out at about 10-12 yrs tying up inventory that much longer. The longer a whisky ages the more evaporation there is so less whisky per barrel over time - law of diminishing returns in real terms. All these, in my opinion, justify the higher cost of scotch.

Usually only collectors and scotch whisky snobs go for the ridiculously high priced bottles. And companies are capitalising on this. Produce a few casks of the very expensive stuff and pallets of the "ordinary". The average man on the streets when buying the ordinary will feel good through ownership by association.
The whisky connoisseurs are not helping any either. An expensive scotch is most likely rated higher than the cheaper one of the same brand. Sometimes by a mere 2-3 points. Have always wondered the cost of a point and how a point tastes like

The one that gets my goat is the "rarity" factor thrown around so often to push prices. Eg: whiskies in JW Blue Label are so "rare" that only limited bottles can be released every year. But these limited bottles have been released for so many years now. And as mentioned in an earlier post I have seen PALLETS of "rare" scotch whiskies waiting for shipment.

There are loads of excellent scotch in the less than US$50 range. An open mind is the only way to get the best deal for the dollar.


----------



## TheSaint

I can't believe my luck.
I just bought 4 bottles of Glendranach 1968 in a London Liquor Store off of London Bridge Tube.
This stuff is simply wonderful....[]


----------



## Morris

-- Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance.


----------



## Mr. Knightly

2 questions:

- Do you mix water with your bourbon? I hear that you're supposed to, but it's always seemed like a crime to me.

- Does anyone have recommendations for Scotches that offer the most bang for your buck? I buy bourbon myself, since it's cheaper, and I usually only drink scotch with my family. Since they're all involved in much more lucrative professions than I am, they don't think twice about buying Macallan 18yr, which I love but will probably never buy. I've gone with Glenmorangie (several varieties) and Glenlivet before, but they've never done much for me. Perhaps my tastes have been spoiled.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


----------



## Tyto

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Knightly_
> 
> 2 questions:
> - Do you mix water with your bourbon? I hear that you're supposed to, but it's always seemed like a crime to me.


This is based completely on preference and/or proof, and is probably done more commonly with cask-strength bourbons (like Booker's or Baker's), as the alcohol content of those *will* numb your palate at some point. However, serious tasters will almost always add water after an initial sip neat, as a bit of water (say a capful in a single shot) will release additional flavors and aromas.

Also, I sometimes just want my bourbon over ice. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right... 



> quote:- Does anyone have recommendations for Scotches that offer the most bang for your buck? I buy bourbon myself, since it's cheaper, and I usually only drink scotch with my family. Since they're all involved in much more lucrative professions than I am, they don't think twice about buying Macallan 18yr, which I love but will probably never buy. I've gone with Glenmorangie (several varieties) and Glenlivet before, but they've never done much for me. Perhaps my tastes have been spoiled.


Some of the biggest bang for the buck comes from The Balvenie Double-Wood 12-yr. It can be had at Costco or Trader Joe's (in California) for under $30, and is a wonderfully complex. Other favorites that come immediately to mind in the $30-40 range (particularly at TJ's) include MacAllan 12 and Bowmore 14 (IIRC). Also, you can sometimes find Lagavulin 16 at Costco for $50, which is, in my opinion, a great value. Also, frankly, Johnny Walker Black Label really isn't a bad whiskey at all, and can be had for $25 at many places.

__________

Fair and softly goes far.


----------



## I_Should_Be_Working

Once I had a very normal seeming guest down an almost full bottle of single malt. It wasn't till the end of the evening I noticed. 

Following that episode, I always keep some Dewar's nearby when company appears. Never stock only cheap or only nice, keep a good mix.


----------



## Tomasso

> quote:_Originally posted by Tyto_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Knightly_
> 
> 2 questions:
> - Do you mix water with your bourbon? I hear that you're supposed to, but it's always seemed like a crime to me.
> 
> 
> 
> serious tasters will almost always add water after an initial sip neat, *as a bit of water (say a capful in a single shot) will release additional flavors and aromas.*
> 
> Also, I sometimes just want my *bourbon over ice*. If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right...
Click to expand...

Right on both counts.

For Scotch, try starting with a very little bit of water at first. Take a bar straw and dip it into a glass of water, then place your finger on the top of the straw and release the water into the Scotch. You will experience a diversity of flavors as you add more water.

Bourbon needs ice, but not too much.


----------



## JBZ

Regarding water and bourbon, I think Tyto hit it pretty well. I almost always add a little for the higher proofs (although I may take a sip or two first without the water). Water does bring out different flavors. I will oftentimes drink my bourbon over ice, unless I'm trying it for the first time and want to get a really good idea of the flavor. Of course, sometimes there's no substitute for straight up.

Regarding more affordable Scotch, I do enjoy the Glenmorganie 10 year. I think you can get it for under $40 (or maybe just over). I find it to have a nice, crisp taste without being overly smoky. I think it's often claimed to be the most popular Scotch in Scotland.

Speaking of bourbon, has anyone tried Pappy Van Winkle's 15 year old family reserve? I've never had it, but I've read some reviews that rate it as outstanding.


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## shoefetish

Adding water to whisky/bourbon is very personal. If you can hack the alcohol then fine else a little water won't hurt. After all whiskies at 40% or 43% have been watered down before bottling.
Watering bourbon helps as it tones down the ,in some instances, excessive sweetness.

Addition of water brings out the subtle flavours and smoothens the drink. There is no hard and fast rule so add as much or as little as pleases you - experimentation is the key. 

For good value blends try Teacher's, Grants Family Reserve or that outstanding blend Black Bottle. Heaven in a bottle and so cheap.
I have tasted single malts that are totally gross - should have been given to Socrates instead of hemlock

Besides the above mentioned blends, others that offer value for the money are JW Black Label, Dewars White Label (try to find the older bottlings with the white label - the present lot have too much caramel) and Ballantines Gold Label.

Value priced excellent single malts include Aberlour 10yr, Glenmorangie 10 yr and Port Wood, Glenlivet 12yr and French Oak, Laphroaig 10yr(if you can tolerate the heavy iodine/peat), Balvenie Founder's Reserve and Double Wood, Macallan 10, and 12yr, Edradour 10yr and Ardbeg 10yr(this is rather low priced at the present).

BTW, thesaint, how much did you pay for the Glendranach 1968 and does the store do worldwide mail order? Would love to get my hands on some.


Never sleep with another man's wife, never water another man's whisky.


----------



## Joe Frances

I like Highland Park 18 or Famous Grouse Reserve, which has Highland Park in the mix, I believe.

Recently, however, I found a very fun new Scotish called of all things, "Jon, Mark and Robbo" which comes in three types: spciy, peaty and slightly sweet. This is a very good drink and if you find it give it a try. 


Joe


----------



## Mr. Knightly

> quote:
> Some of the biggest bang for the buck comes from The Balvenie Double-Wood 12-yr. It can be had at Costco or Trader Joe's (in California) for under $30, and is a wonderfully complex. Other favorites that come immediately to mind in the $30-40 range (particularly at TJ's) include MacAllan 12 and Bowmore 14 (IIRC). Also, you can sometimes find Lagavulin 16 at Costco for $50, which is, in my opinion, a great value. Also, frankly, Johnny Walker Black Label really isn't a bad whiskey at all, and can be had for $25 at many places.
> 
> __________
> 
> Fair and softly goes far.


Great. I've got enough Glenmorangie to, er, get me by till I finish this program, then I can drink the "free" Macallan 18yr at my parents house for the summer, and when I move to California I'll check out Balvenie.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


----------



## Tyto

Mr. Knightly:

Another quality blend at an attractive price point (~$25-30) is Haig and Haig's Pinch. It can sometimes be a little difficult to find, but worth the effort.

Cheers!


__________

Fair and softly goes far.


----------



## jcusey

Joe Frances said:


> Recently, however, I found a very fun new Scotish called of all things, "Jon, Mark and Robbo" which comes in three types: spciy, peaty and slightly sweet. This is a very good drink and if you find it give it a try.


I've seen these, too, and I've hesitated because the price point (a shade under $30 for a fifth) puts them squarely in the territory of some good lower-priced single malts (Old Pulteney, for example). Do you think that they're worth the money?

(Aside #1: the sweet version is actually a blend of Scotch and Irish whiskies. I don't think that I have ever seen that combination before. Aside #2: I've recently tried the aforementioned Old Pulteney, and I really like it -- a little bit of salt, a little bit of peat, a little bit of sweetness. Very enjoyable, and relatively cheap.)


----------



## jcusey

How about some Canadians? Crown Royal is always good (the regular bottling -- the Special Reserve is too woody for me), and I also like Forty Creek and Wiser's DeLuxe 10 YO, both of which are dirt cheap. As with Bourbon, you can get a whole lot of good Canadian whisky for less then $20 a fifth.


----------



## Martinis at 8

Ms. M8 prefers MacCallan's 18-yr. old. Always served neat. I prefer potato vodka.

M8


----------



## shoefetish

Being in a celebratory mood broke out an older bottling of Wild Turkey Kentucky Legend on Friday. Bottled on 05/20/93 at 08:56 (acording to the bottle).
Would have been better off selling the bottle on Ebay at a premium. A termite's idea of heaven. Way too much of wood with a token touch of vanilla. Live and learn I guess - lets exchange views.

The 18 year old Macallans are outstanding but watch out for the newer bottlings with sulphur on the palate. Pipe and cigar smokers will understand this. Think improper maturing of the tobacco with the ammonia taste that catches the throat. Leaving the whisky in the glass for about 10-15 mins helps somewhat.

Would appreciate hearing from Singaporeans who are serious whisky lovers (single malt or blends - I am no whisky snob). We can split a bottle and shoot the breeze.



Never sleep with another man's wife, never water another man's whisky.


----------



## shoefetish

jcusey said:


> How about some Canadians? Crown Royal is always good (the regular bottling -- the Special Reserve is too woody for me), and I also like Forty Creek and Wiser's DeLuxe 10 YO, both of which are dirt cheap. As with Bourbon, you can get a whole lot of good Canadian whisky for less then $20 a fifth.


Jcusey, the Crown Royal is ever so good AND consistent. Have tried the current bottlings and some bottled in the 70s. Damned if I can tell a difference. As with anything else the popular believe is "the more expensive the better". So much BS. The Adberg 10 yrs, the Glenmorangie 10 yrs, the Laphroaig 10 yrs, the Talisker 10yrs and BenRiach 10 yrs (amongst others) are ever so sublime and so reasonably priced. If you can afford it go ahead and splurge on the older ones but the younger (and cheaper) whiskies are no flashes in the pan.

Never sleep with another man's wife, never water another man's whisky.


----------



## jcusey

shoefetish said:


> As with anything else the popular believe is "the more expensive the better".


Or "the older the better," which boils down to the same thing. Whisky doesn't have to be the liquor equivalent of '45 Mouton to be worth drinking.



> So much BS. The Adberg 10 yrs, the Glenmorangie 10 yrs, the Laphroaig 10 yrs, the Talisker 10yrs and BenRiach 10 yrs (amongst others) are ever so sublime and so reasonably priced.


Never tried the BenRiach or the Glenmorangie 10, but you're absolutely right about the Laphroaig and the Talisker. Regarding the BenRiach 10 YO, are you referring to the Curiositas peated malt or another bottling?


----------



## shoefetish

jcusey said:


> Or "the older the better," which boils down to the same thing. Whisky doesn't have to be the liquor equivalent of '45 Mouton to be worth drinking.
> 
> Never tried the BenRiach or the Glenmorangie 10, but you're absolutely right about the Laphroaig and the Talisker. Regarding the BenRiach 10 YO, are you referring to the Curiositas peated malt or another bottling?


I am an occasional wine drinker and gave up on wine tasting meets exactly for the snobbery. To my untrained wine palate the cheaper and younger wines were fine but when some of the other tasters kept insisting the older, famous houses were better - getting me to agree - I had to bail out. The pleasure factor was lost.
Thank heavens it hasn't hit the malt trail - yet.

Jcusey, the Glenmorangie 10yr is a must try. The creamy toffee with a hint of mint is there without even looking for it. Paying a bit more for the port wood finish (12yrs I think) is even better. Here the difference is about US$8.

Yes, I was referring to the Curiositas. Chivas is shipping them by the tons. Light, pleasant anytime malt with the emphasis on the malt.
Tried a couple of glasses of the 16yr old and have asked my supplier to get me a bottle so I can make a more informed evaluation.

Right now the Ardbeg 10yrs is a best buy. Whilst I see price adjustments upwards for other brands this has stayed consistent for some time.

Never sleep with another man's wife, never water another man's whisky.


----------



## shoefetish

Many thanks for everyone's input on the various whiskies. Please keep them coming.
Appreciate the real life, been there done that, experiences than something glorified from a copy writer's desk.


----------



## jcusey

Just picked up a bottle of Isle of Jura . Jura is across the Sound of Islay from Islay (imagine that!), but the Isle of Jura's house style supposedly has more in common with the Western Highlands than with Islay. (I say "supposedly" because Superstition is the only malt from Isle of Jura that I have tried.) Superstition is different in that it has a very noticeable peatyness. Not like Laphroaig or Ardbeg, but there is a considerable amount of peat there. I didn't like this stuff at first -- the smoke just doesn't seem as well-integrated as it is in the aforementioned Laphroaig and Ardbeg or Highland Park -- but it is growing on me. It's not bad for $32 a fifth. It will not be my dram of choice, but it's not bad.


----------



## jcusey

For those of you who like American rye whiskey, I have seen more on the shelves after an absence of a couple of years. It's expensive for an American whiskey ($34 a fifth), but it is the best rye I have ever had (and no, unfortunately, I have never had the Sazerac 18 YO Rye, which is supposed to be amazing).


----------



## jcusey

I had a dram of Bruichladdich 10 YO last night, and I was very impressed. Very malty, sweet, and fresh. A bit of saltiness and a hint of smoke are the only indications that this is an Islay. It's not like Laphroiag or Lagavulin, but why should all whisky be?


----------



## shoefetish

Good Morning all,
one for the whisky collectors amongst us, especially Singaporean members.
Acquired a bottle of Gordon & McPhail whisky specially bottled for the 100th Anniversary of the Singapore Swimming Club in 1994. G&M couldn't provide any info other than that they did indeed do the bottling. The labels are pretty much worn and I am trying to make out the text. 

As a Singaporean this is important to me as in all my years of collecting I have not come across a private G&M bottling for a local organisation.

All info greatly appreciated. Many thanks.


----------



## jcusey

shoefetish said:


> Acquired a bottle of Gordon & McPhail whisky specially bottled for the 100th Anniversary of the Singapore Swimming Club in 1994. G&M couldn't provide any info other than that they did indeed do the bottling. The labels are pretty much worn and I am trying to make out the text.


Forgive me if I'm merely stating the obvious, but have you tried inquiring with the Singapore Swimming Club? It's possible that they have records about this or that someone still remembers what they asked G&M to do.


----------



## shoefetish

jcusey said:


> Forgive me if I'm merely stating the obvious, but have you tried inquiring with the Singapore Swimming Club? It's possible that they have records about this or that someone still remembers what they asked G&M to do.


First place I called but it was "oh we're not sure and so on and so forth".

I am trying here on the off chance any Singporean member on this board is also a member of the Swimming Club and can do some "sleuthing"


----------



## Peat

*my collection*

Ardbeg is very good. Maybe not as good as it was 10-15 years ago but its still a fine scotch. Just had some 'gol label' Johnnie Walker recenly and loved it. 
A great misconception about Scotch is that single malts are ALWAYS better. This is simply not true.

And don't forget that there's some truly wonderfull Canadian Whisky. There are many, many brands worth checking out.

I too have Jum Murray's book - a great resource.


----------



## shoefetish

Peat said:


> Ardbeg is very good. Maybe not as good as it was 10-15 years ago but its still a fine scotch. Just had some 'gol label' Johnnie Walker recenly and loved it.
> A great misconception about Scotch is that single malts are ALWAYS better. This is simply not true.


Funny how many whisky lovers comment on how much better whiskies were in the past. I largely agree. Many of the current blends don't have the same composition of the past. A JW Black Label from about 20 years ago is excessively smoky and heavy. A Black Label loving pal couldn't identify the taste when I offered him a glass. As for single malts, older bottlings, esp. Islay, were major peat monsters. For eg. a Laphroaig from the 70s tastes like a mixture of peat and disinfectant (more so than currently)and can put people off. Present presentations are more "user" friendly, which is not a bad thing in itself.

What I find annoying is that many "serious" whisky connoisseurs put off new initiates by being more toffee nosed than a bottle of Aberlour. Its always single malt or nothing. As you have pointed out single malts aren't always better. In fact I have never encountered an unpalatable blend. On the other hand I have tasted malts that, I think, started life as rodent poison

Have you tried the frozen thing with the Gold Label? All I got was brain freeze:-(

BTW Tomatin has released a 12 yr old which is tasty stuff for little money.

Never sleep with another man's wife, never water another man's whisky.


----------



## mljones99

Not a fan of Scotch but I love Bourban. My favorite is Maker's Mark or Blanton's. Nothing beats a perfectly made whiskey sour w/ makers!


----------



## jcusey

mljones99 said:


> Not a fan of Scotch but I love Bourban. My favorite is Maker's Mark or Blanton's. Nothing beats a perfectly made whiskey sour w/ makers!


If you like MM and you want to experiement, try one of the Van Winkle Bourbons. Like MM, Van Winkle is wheated (meaning that its secondary grain after corn is wheat, not rye like most Bourbons). There are many different bottlings, and all that I have tried have been excellent. The 10 YO can be had for a few bucks more than MM per bottle.


----------



## MichaelS

VS said:


> I'm a single-malt kind of gel. Talisker and Cardhu are my favorites but I always have Glenlivet 12 or 18 around the house.
> 
> For Irish drink, I like Jameson's.
> 
> *"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


For Irish I guess I prefer Connemara Cask Strength or Bushmills 21 (or Jamesons 18 yr old) but will you marry me anyways? Just kidding (sort of) and I hope I am not being insulting), but after a night listening to Cherish the Ladies (good American band of recent Irish emmigrant stock) and drinking both Laphroaig and Bushmills, I am entranced by the charms of a woman who enjoys Talisker (in reality I have actually been blessed to be married to a woman who actually understands my enjoyment of cask strength single cask Scotch Whisky and good Irish whiskey, even if she does prefer Midddleton Very Rare to Redbreast).

MichaelS


----------



## Tyto

jcusey said:


> If you like MM and you want to experiement, try one of the Van Winkle Bourbons. Like MM, Van Winkle is wheated (meaning that its secondary grain after corn is wheat, not rye like most Bourbons). There are many different bottlings, and all that I have tried have been excellent. The 10 YO can be had for a few bucks more than MM per bottle.


I love wheated bourbons and I've heard lots of praise for Van Winkle whiskeys, but never got around to trying them. Nobody really pours them around here, so I'd have to spring for a bottle (not that there's anything wrong with that). Which bottling would you recommend?

P.S. regarding Blanton's: I think it's the best bourbon in current production.


----------



## JBZ

Tyto said:


> I love wheated bourbons and I've heard lots of praise for Van Winkle whiskeys, but never got around to trying them. Nobody really pours them around here, so I'd have to spring for a bottle (not that there's anything wrong with that). Which bottling would you recommend?
> 
> P.S. regarding Blanton's: I think it's the best bourbon in current production.


I've always heard good things about Van Winkle but, as you note, their distribution is limited. I haven't checked my local "big" liquor store in awhile, but I don't recall seeing any Van Winkle there during my last visit (I'd love to try their 15 year, which is supposedly quite good).

Blantons is quite nice. I almost think I prefer Buffalo Trace, however, and it comes at half the cost (or less) than Blanton's.

I've been spending more and more time reading the bourbon forum over on the Straight Bourbon website. You could get lost there for hours (much like here).


----------



## jcusey

Tyto said:


> I love wheated bourbons and I've heard lots of praise for Van Winkle whiskeys, but never got around to trying them. Nobody really pours them around here, so I'd have to spring for a bottle (not that there's anything wrong with that). Which bottling would you recommend?


I have enjoyed the very much, and I am kicking myself about not picking up the .



> P.S. regarding Blanton's: I think it's the best bourbon in current production.


Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give it a try.


----------



## JBZ

As an addendum to my previous post, I believe Buffalo Trace is a wheated bourbon, as well. I think I'll have a glass tonight. :drunken_smilie: 

Is it peoples' experiences that wheated bourbons are generally more sweet and less smoky? That seems to be my experience (at least with MM and BT).


----------



## Morris

Balvanie PortWood 21


----------



## Tyto

JBZ said:


> Is it peoples' experiences that wheated bourbons are generally more sweet and less smoky? That seems to be my experience (at least with MM and BT).


That's my experience, too. The wheaties are more sweet and smooth, and the ryes more peppery and smoky.


----------



## jcusey

JBZ said:


> As an addendum to my previous post, I believe Buffalo Trace is a wheated bourbon, as well. I think I'll have a glass tonight. :drunken_smilie:


According to the , their mashbill is corn, rye, and barley. Of course, what matters is the way that it tastes, not what's in the mashbill.



> Is it peoples' experiences that wheated bourbons are generally more sweet and less smoky? That seems to be my experience (at least with MM and BT).


Generally speaking, yes. But remember that all of the wheated bourbons that I know of (VW, MM, Old Weller, Rebel Yell, Old Fitzgerald) all have essentially the same mashbill -- all of them are derived from the old Stitzel-Weller recipe.


----------



## jcusey

jcusey said:


> I have never had the Sazerac 18 YO Rye, which is supposed to be amazing.


I was in a liquor store yesterday, intending to take advantage of a sale on , when I happened to see a lone bottle of . Since the sale on the Blanton's wasn't that good and since I know of about half a dozen places that carry Blanton's but have only seen the Sazerac once in about four years, I decided to pick up the Sazerac instead. Wow. It's some impressive rye. Very big, lots of spice and vanilla. Absolutely delicious. Highly recommended.

According to Michael Jackson's _Whiskey: The Definitive World Guide_, Sazerac Rye is distilled at the distillery in Frankfort.


----------



## Mute

- Macallan 18 year
- Highland Park 18 year
- Glenmorangie Fino Sherry Wood Finish

Cheap enough to drink year round. And some of the best damn single malts you can get.


----------



## JBZ

jcusey said:


> According to the , their mashbill is corn, rye, and barley. Of course, what matters is the way that it tastes, not what's in the mashbill.


Thanks for the clarification. I must have mis-remembered. It's still really good, though.


----------



## JBZ

jcusey said:


> I was in a liquor store yesterday, intending to take advantage of a sale on , when I happened to see a lone bottle of . Since the sale on the Blanton's wasn't that good and since I know of about half a dozen places that carry Blanton's but have only seen the Sazerac once in about four years, I decided to pick up the Sazerac instead. Wow. It's some impressive rye. Very big, lots of spice and vanilla. Absolutely delicious. Highly recommended.
> 
> According to Michael Jackson's _Whiskey: The Definitive World Guide_, Sazerac Rye is distilled at the distillery in Frankfort.


According to the Straight Bourbon website (), Blanton's is also produced at the Buffalo Trace distillery.


----------



## jcusey

JBZ said:


> Thanks for the clarification. I must have mis-remembered. It's still really good, though.


Thanks for the recommendation. I tried some last night, and I think that it's every bit as good as you said it was. Delicious vanilla and caramel aroma, with a lot of spice on the palate, and without that grain-y finish that you sometimes find on Bourbons. An excellent Bourbon, especially when you consider that it's around $20 for a fifth.


----------



## jcusey

JBZ said:


> According to the Straight Bourbon website (), Blanton's is also produced at the Buffalo Trace distillery.


There are lots of Bourbon brands out there, but there aren't a whole lot of distilleries. A trick that someone wiser than I am taught me was to look at the city mentioned on the label to identify which distillery produced the whiskey. Clermont is Jim Beam. Frankfort is Buffalo Trace. Bardstown is Heaven Hill, Barton, or Kentucky Bourbon Distillers (okay, that one's not so easy). Louisville is Brown-Forman or Bernheim. Most of the rest are obvious because the distilleries don't have multiple brand names -- the Austin Nichols Distillery in Lawrenceburg just produces various bottlings of Wild Turkey (the Rare Breed bottling, by the way, is the best Bourbon that I have ever tasted), and the Maker's Mark distillery in Loretto just produces Maker's Mark, for example.


----------



## shoefetish

Whilst replying to my thread in the Interchange about model trains I opened up a bottle of Glenfiddich 15yr old Solera Reserve.
A bit of water really opens up the taste and I find it "heavier" and more honeyed than the other Glenfiddich offerings (including the 30yr old). Glenfiddich is generally rubbished by the single malt army. What are the opinions of single malt lovers here. Please say it like it is


----------



## jcusey

dopey said:


> I knew there was a reason I liked you. Mix yourself a real Manhattan on me. And no, that is not a waste of good rye.


Alas, I have no cocktail shaker, nor any cocktail glasses. What with the expensive hootch (and shoefetish is tempting me, no, *forcing* me, to buy the Glenfiddich Solera Reserve, which runs $44 a fifth) and the shoe habit, I have no money left for such accoutrements. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## JBZ

jcusey said:


> There are lots of Bourbon brands out there, but there aren't a whole lot of distilleries. A trick that someone wiser than I am taught me was to look at the city mentioned on the label to identify which distillery produced the whiskey. Clermont is Jim Beam. Frankfort is Buffalo Trace. Bardstown is Heaven Hill, Barton, or Kentucky Bourbon Distillers (okay, that one's not so easy). Louisville is Brown-Forman or Bernheim. Most of the rest are obvious because the distilleries don't have multiple brand names -- the Austin Nichols Distillery in Lawrenceburg just produces various bottlings of Wild Turkey (the Rare Breed bottling, by the way, is the best Bourbon that I have ever tasted), and the Maker's Mark distillery in Loretto just produces Maker's Mark, for example.


Thank you for the insight. WT Rare Breed has been on my "to try" list for quite some time. I think I'll need to pick up a bottle soon.


----------



## Mute

Best Bourbon I've had are the 16 and 20 year bottles from A.H Hirsch.


----------



## shoefetish

jcusey said:


> Alas, I have no cocktail shaker, nor any cocktail glasses. What with the expensive hootch (and shoefetish is tempting me, no, *forcing* me, to buy the Glenfiddich Solera Reserve, which runs $44 a fifth) and the shoe habit, I have no money left for such accoutrements. :icon_smile_wink:


2nd impressions on the Solera Reserve. There is a first whiff of apples then a toffeeish/honey aroma. Taste wise, with the sweetness there is a rather heavy bitter taste reminisent of oak. Jcusey, as you are a fan of bourbons this might be up your street. Very much like old bourbon - Kentucky Legend comes to mind (without the vanilla).

BTW what I did was mix equal portions of the Glenfiddich 12yr Special Reserve and Aberlour 10yr and leave it for a couple of days. Tastes very similar to the SR without the bitterness and more to my taste 

Just got me a bottle of the Glenfiddich 18yr Ancient Reserve from DFS. Let's see how that goes.


----------



## shoefetish

Bourbon lovers, what is your take on the I.W. Harper 12 year old? Comes in a rectangular bottle with a diamond cut pattern. Box is blue.

I have been offered 1 for sale but googling didn't help much. 1 site says it has been discontinued but another says its for the Asian market only.

Many thanks in advance for all englightenment provided.


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## jcusey

shoefetish said:


> I have been offered 1 for sale but googling didn't help much. 1 site says it has been discontinued but another says its for the Asian market only.


I don't know anything about it, but if you haven't found it already, this thread on straightbourbon.com might provide some enlightenment. The consensus seems to be that it is a good but not outstanding bourbon.


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## Tyto

jcusey said:


> Most of the rest are obvious because the distilleries don't have multiple brand names -- the Austin Nichols Distillery in Lawrenceburg just produces various bottlings of Wild Turkey (the Rare Breed bottling, by the way, is the best Bourbon that I have ever tasted), and the Maker's Mark distillery in Loretto just produces Maker's Mark, for example.


Sounds as if I'll have to try the Rare Breed--my favorite of all time is A.H. Hirsch, as someone previously mentioned--but I'm open-minded about this stuff.... :icon_smile_wink:

Also, I thought Maker's was in Bardstown?


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## JBZ

jcusey said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I tried some last night, and I think that it's every bit as good as you said it was. Delicious vanilla and caramel aroma, with a lot of spice on the palate, and without that grain-y finish that you sometimes find on Bourbons. An excellent Bourbon, especially when you consider that it's around $20 for a fifth.


I missed this the first time around. Glad you enjoyed it. I think it's the best bourbon I've ever had for the price. Another good, yet relatively inexpensive one is Eagle Rare (10 or 12 year old, I think). It's smokier than the Buffalo Trace in my experience.


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## jcusey

Tyto said:


> Also, I thought Maker's was in Bardstown?


No, it's in Loretto. See the address at the bottom of the pages of the Maker's Mark website.


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## jcusey

JBZ said:


> I missed this the first time around. Glad you enjoyed it. I think it's the best bourbon I've ever had for the price. Another good, yet relatively inexpensive one is Eagle Rare (10 or 12 year old, I think). It's smokier than the Buffalo Trace in my experience.


Coincidentally enough, Eagle Rare is also made at the Buffalo Trace distillery. Recently, it's been released as a 10 YO, a 15 YO, and a 17 YO, although who knows what they did a few years ago? The rise of boutique Bourbons certainly has encouraged distilleries to come up with armies of different bottlings.


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## shoefetish

jcusey said:


> I don't know anything about it, but if you haven't found it already, this thread on straightbourbon.com might provide some enlightenment. The consensus seems to be that it is a good but not outstanding bourbon.


Many thanks Jcusey. A very informative and interesting site indeed! Unfortunately the I.W. Harper seems an enigma to even the experienced members of that board:-(

I notice a large number of the members posting on this thread are into bourbons. Just wondering, is it because of the traditional American heritage (something that you were "weaned" on) or a preferred taste over scotch - single malt or otherwise?


----------



## JBZ

jcusey said:


> The rise of boutique Bourbons certainly has encouraged distilleries to come up with armies of different bottlings.


Definitely true. I think Maker's Mark and, to a lesser extent, Knob Creek led the charge here. MM has had great success marketing itself as a niche/boutique brand (with its whole "bottle sealed with red wax" gimmick). It's also an incredibly approachable bourbon for the whiskey novice. I frequently order it in restaurants because I know the restaurant will have it and I know I'm getting a good bourbon. Knob Creek (from Jim Beam) is not nearly as approachable as MM in taste, but it has also engaged in an extensive print marketing campaign and can be found just about everywhere.


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## JBZ

shoefetish said:


> I notice a large number of the members posting on this thread are into bourbons. Just wondering, is it because of the traditional American heritage (something that you were "weaned" on) or a preferred taste over scotch - single malt or otherwise?


For me, it's a number of things:

- First and foremost, it's the taste. I just generally prefer the taste of bourbon to most scotches. Generally, I find the taste fuller, yet mellower, if that makes any sense. I find many scotches to be just too harsh for me (particularly the Islay scotches, although some absolutely love them).

- It's an easier hobby to have in the sense that there are fewer brands of bourbon than scotch, and taste of bourbon is not as dependent on region as it is with scotch. It's just easier to gain more knowledge about various bourbons more quickly that scotch. Frankly, I'm lazy. :icon_smile: By no means, however, am I done with my bourbon education. There's always more to learn. The good part is that "learning" usually means tasting more bourbon.

- It's a much less expensive hobby than scotch. The most expensive bourbons, with some exceptions, don't crack $90 per bottle, and you can get some outstanding stuff for less than $50 or even less than $25 (see the above discussions about Buffalo Trace and Eagle Rare). I think it's hard to get a good bottle of single malt scotch in the U.S. for much less than $40 and, as people with more experience with scotch than I have pointed out, there are some bad single malts out there that cost a lot more.

- Bourbon doesn't have, for the most part, the "holier than thou" contingent in its ranks. Bourbon drinkers are, as a group, pretty down to earth. On the other hand, there are scotch drinkers who only drink single malt and will turn their noses up at the very mention of a blend. Funny, I always thought that you should drink what tastes the best (which, incidentally, the better blends are specifically designed to do).

- I will admit that some of my satisfaction with drinking bourbon comes from the fact that it is a distinctly American product. I like supporting products that are made in the U.S. For example, my favorite shoes are Aldens. Jcusey could give me a detailed explanation regarding why there are several brands of shoes out there whose construction blows Alden out of the water (and he'd be right). However, Alden is the premier RTW shoemaker in the U.S., so I'm partial to them. I guess my love of bourbon comes from the same attitude.


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## jcusey

shoefetish said:


> I notice a large number of the members posting on this thread are into bourbons. Just wondering, is it because of the traditional American heritage (something that you were "weaned" on) or a preferred taste over scotch - single malt or otherwise?


JBZ made a number of excellent points in response to this, and I only have a couple of my own to add.

First, Scotch is byzantine where Bourbon is relatively simple. By that, I don't mean flavor complexity; but it's quite an endeavor to have a working knowledge of the the major Scotch distilleries, the regional characteristics of the various kinds of Scotch, what blends are worthwhile and what blends are not, and so on. Scotch is the Burgundy of the spirits world. Mastering it at even an elementary level takes a lot of effort and a lot of money. Not so with Bourbon. Sure, the major Bourbon distilleries have been coming out with new brands and bottlings like there's no tomorrow; but the landscape is still remarkably uncluttered, at least when compared to Scotch. There are only a handful of distilleries. Most of those distilleries have a particular house character; and although their different bottlings may differ substantially from one another, they still reflect that house character and echo one another. If Scotch is the Burgundy of the spirits world, Bourbon is Australian wine.

Second, Bourbon is much more accessible than is Scotch. Again, I'm not referring to taste but to ease of purchase. There are a number of excellent liquor stores in large urban areas that have a fantastic selection of Scotch, but for people who don't live near such places, it's largely a choice of Dewar's, Chivas, Johnnie Walker, Glenlivet, Glenfiddich, and one or two rotgut blends. Not so with Bourbon. Any decent liquor store in the US will have ten or more different bottlings from a nice sample of the working Bourbon distilleries. It's just easier to get good Bourbon most places than it is to get good Scotch, and, as JBZ wrote, a heck of a lot cheaper.


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## Tyto

shoefetish said:


> I notice a large number of the members posting on this thread are into bourbons. Just wondering, is it because of the traditional American heritage (something that you were "weaned" on) or a preferred taste over scotch - single malt or otherwise?


JBZ and JCusey hit almost everything, but I'll add that I'm also into scotches, I just prefer them at different times and for different reasons.

My first experience with distilled alcohol was scotch--it was a highland single malt that I don't remember. I remember loving the smell and hating the taste, and I think I decided then that I wanted to learn to appreciate it. As I tried more, I found that I preferred bourbon when I wanted a sweeter drink (which is more frequently), but when I wanted something more robust or "special," I'd reach for an Islay scotch.

I find now that bourbon is generally my "daily drink" (though in truth, I now only have a drink about once a week), and scotch is my "in the mood" drink. In addition to simple preference, the price difference reinforces this behavior to some extent.


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## shoefetish

Many thanks for the replies. Other than taste looks like price/accessibility is a factor.
Myself, I started with JD and coke, Jim Beam and coke.... you get the picture.
All this was some 20 yrs ago when bourbon was cheap and fashionable (frankly all I could afford at the time). Unfortunately after all the years whenever I see a bourbon the coke thing gets to me and that's what puts me off.
Switched to scotch, loved it and stayed there. It's true scotch is an involved drink - so many distilleries and so many brands. Over a 100 bottles on hand and still I am searching for THE scotch.

BUT I must disagree that "It's just easier to gain more knowledge about various bourbons more quickly that scotch".
All scotch have a base profile same as bourbon. Vanilla, oak, bananas, lavender and pound to a penny its a bourbon. Likewise toffee, fruity, earthy(peat), sherry and malty and its a scotch. The subtilities come with the brands, age and location.

With the input of bourbon loving members here I am slowly understanding/appreciating the nuances of different bourbons. Don't think I will ever forsake scotch but the horizons are expanding and for that I am thankful.

In Singapore, other than the run of the mill brands, good scotch and bourbon are hard if not impossible to come by. I depend mostly on DFS so have to be very selective of my purchases.

Keep the taste experiences coming so I don't buy duds


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## JBZ

shoefetish said:


> BUT I must disagree that "It's just easier to gain more knowledge about various bourbons more quickly that scotch".
> All scotch have a base profile same as bourbon. Vanilla, oak, bananas, lavender and pound to a penny its a bourbon. Likewise toffee, fruity, earthy(peat), sherry and malty and its a scotch. The subtilities come with the brands, age and location.


Interesting point. What I find fascinating about scotch is that while, from my understanding, the basic ingredients are the same, the taste can vary significantly from distillery to distillery and region to region. I've also read that many have attempted to duplicate the taste of scotch outside of Scotland (same ingredients, same barrels, same conditions, etc.), but have been unable to do it. There's something about the air and water over there. :icon_smile:


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## Tyto

JBZ said:


> Interesting point. What I find fascinating about scotch is that while, from my understanding, the basic ingredients are the same, the taste can vary significantly from distillery to distillery and region to region. I've also read that many have attempted to duplicate the taste of scotch outside of Scotland (same ingredients, same barrels, same conditions, etc.), but have been unable to do it. There's something about the air and water over there. :icon_smile:


Following on JBZ's first point, I think that no one base flavor profile encompasses all of the different scotch-producing regions--well, come to think of it, one base profile probably does cover highland, lowland, and speyside, and another could probably apply cover Islay, Orkney, and other northern islands. But in any case, I wouldn't necessarily consider Islay scotches approachable for a first-time drinker (unless they really like Booker's to begin with), whereas a robust rye could be given to a relative neophyte without too much fear.

On the attempted duplication of scotch--have you tried any of the Japanese malt whiskeys? I've only tried Suntory Hibiki and Hakashu, and I was surprised by the sweetness. They were VERY drinkable to be sure, but so profoundly different from any scotch I've had. Also, I heard or read somewhere that the folks who produce Old Potrero (they're owned by Anchor Steam, I think, but I forgot the distillery) are also producing an American single malt.


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## jcusey

shoefetish said:


> Myself, I started with JD and coke, Jim Beam and coke.... you get the picture.


I started with Jim Beam and Dr. Pepper. Oh, the regional differences! 

One more thing before I forget: Echoing what Tyto said, my preference shifts with my moods. Right now, I'm on a bit of a Bourbon kick. In a few weeks, I'll probably be back to Scotch.


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## jcusey

Tyto said:


> On the attempted duplication of scotch--have you tried any of the Japanese malt whiskeys? I've only tried Suntory Hibiki and Hakashu, and I was surprised by the sweetness. They were VERY drinkable to be sure, but so profoundly different from any scotch I've had.


I have tried and failed to get my hands on the Hakashu. I have managed to find the Suntory Yamazaki 12 YO, and my reaction to it is much the same as yours to the Hibiki and the Hakashu.



> Also, I heard or read somewhere that the folks who produce Old Potrero (they're owned by Anchor Steam, I think, but I forgot the distillery) are also producing an American single malt.


They call the distillery , too. They do produce single malt whiskey, but it's not malted barley. It's malted rye. I have never tried it, but others who have almost universally say that it's unique. For some, it's unique in a good way; for others, it's unique in a bad way. See here.


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## shoefetish

JBZ said:


> I've also read that many have attempted to duplicate the taste of scotch outside of Scotland (same ingredients, same barrels, same conditions, etc.), but have been unable to do it. There's something about the air and water over there. :icon_smile:


I'd probably find a Scots hitman - kilts, no undies - at my door for saying this. 
I think its a matter of protecting the turf. Scotch is never scotch unless its from Scotland, fine. But countries like Japan and India produce whisky which in a blind tasting can fool even so called scotch experts.

Amrut malt whisky from India is very good and tastes just like old malt scotch. In fact because of the higher temperatures in India the aging process is faster so it tastes like a much older scotch. BTW, it is bottled at 3 years.
Also to be found are a lot of local whiskies that taste surprisingly like scotch, albeit blended. Won't set off any fireworks but a good steady drink.
Imported whisky tax is something like 700% in India so to be seen drinking Scotch is like eating sturgeon caviar as opposed to lumpfish roe.

Japanese whisky likewise can be deceptive. Had some Hakashu 12yr earlier this year in Fukuoka and if that isn't Islay in Asian dress then I don't know what Islay is.

Surprisingly I found Japanese whisky more expensive in Japan than elsewhere. After much hunting located a Suntory Yamazaki 12yr Pure Malt (the readily available are the Yamazaki 12yr Single Malt) which a local Japanese friend want to swop me for a Bowmore. In Japan you find bottles of scotch you never though existed. Unfortunately a bottomless wallet is a prerequisite.

I don't think any of these countries start out by trying to taste like scotch but some of their whiskies just end up that way.


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## jcusey

dopey said:


> I knew there was a reason I liked you. Mix yourself a real Manhattan on me. And no, that is not a waste of good rye.


All right, dopey, what recipe would you recommend? I've got my sweet vermouth, my cherries, and my bitters.


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## JBZ

shoefetish said:


> Amrut malt whisky from India is very good and tastes just like old malt scotch. In fact because of the higher temperatures in India the aging process is faster so it tastes like a much older scotch. BTW, it is bottled at 3 years.


Wow! Very interesting.


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## jcusey

dopey said:


> I hope the cherries you have are the real thing and not supermarket maraschino cherries:


Alas, they are not. They're a bit gentrified compared to the run-of-the-mill supermarket variety, but they certainly belong to the same genus.

Which brand vermouth and bitters do you use?


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## jcusey

*Single malts from unusual places*

We've discussed Japanese single malt whiskies briefly, and shoefetish has mentioned Amrut malt whiskey from India. How about others from non-traditional locations? Has anybody ever had from the Glenora Distillery on Nova Scotia or that Welsh single malt that I've seen advertisements for or an offering from Wilson Distillery in New Zealand?


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## shoefetish

jcusey said:


> We've discussed Japanese single malt whiskies briefly, and shoefetish has mentioned Amrut malt whiskey from India. How about others from non-traditional locations? Has anybody ever had from the Glenora Distillery on Nova Scotia or that Welsh single malt that I've seen advertisements for or an offering from Wilson Distillery in New Zealand?


I'll go first, jcusey. Great to explore the non-traditionals.

Shared a bottle of Connemara Peated Single Malt Irish Whisky with my bro-in-law Friday evening. Sweet honeyish malt then comes the peat. The comparison would be a sweetish Islay.
Don't know the age but absolutely lovely. Adding water brings out the peat for the peat monsters amongst us

Will be tasting some Mohgul Monarch (India) and Penderyn (Welsh) in the coming weeks. Will post tasting notes when I do.


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## jcusey

Last night, I had a drink of . This is something of a novelty: the only straight wheat whiskey being made today. The bottle was $40 for a fifth, and I can't say that it was a good deal. The whiskey is too young (about 4 YO, I think) -- it's fruity and volatile like young spirits usually are, and it hasn't been in barrel long enough to take on the wood's good characteristics. I suspect that this will be pretty good with about four or five more years of barrel age; but right now, it's merely adequate.


----------



## JSK

*Kirkland Signature Scotch (bottled by Macallan, 19yrs)*

I have very limited whisky experience, having only tried Balvenie 12yr, Macallan 18yr, and Johnnie Walker Black and Gold. I was the most taken by the Macallan 18, and was wondering if anyone knew if the Kirkland Signature sold by Costco, which is Macallan 19yr https://www.costcoconnection.com/connection/ks_wine/?pg=10,
has been tried by any of the members. It seems to be a good price at 80 if compared to the 18. Thanks.


----------



## jcusey

JSK said:


> I have very limited whisky experience, having only tried Balvenie 12yr, Macallan 18yr, and Johnnie Walker Black and Gold. I was the most taken by the Macallan 18, and was wondering if anyone knew if the Kirkland Signature sold by Costco, which is Macallan 19yr https://www.costcoconnection.com/connection/ks_wine/?pg=10,
> has been tried by any of the members. It seems to be a good price at 80 if compared to the 18. Thanks.


Costco never ceases to amaze me. It would not surprise me if this is a good (even very good) value, but I wouldn't assume that it tastes just like Macallan 18 YO with a bit more age on it. The blurb doesn't say anything about the kinds of barrels that were used to age the whisky (how many fills, any use of sherry butts, etc.), and it is possible that Costco, just like any of the other independent bottlers of Scotch, was trying to achieve something different from what the distillery was trying to achieve with its own bottlings.


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## CCabot

I'm an enormous fun of both sherry-casked and peaty scotches. Macallan, Bowmore Darkest, Laphroaig, and Ardbeg Uigeadail are my favorites atm.


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## Danny

Redbreast Irish Whiskey....preferably in Houth, Ireland....but I'll take it anywhere.

Danny


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## Danny

jcusey said:


> We've discussed Japanese single malt whiskies briefly, and shoefetish has mentioned Amrut malt whiskey from India. How about others from non-traditional locations? Has anybody ever had from the Glenora Distillery on Nova Scotia or that Welsh single malt that I've seen advertisements for or an offering from Wilson Distillery in New Zealand?


For the record I wanted to try some South African distilled whisky while I was down there and I tried Three Ships which was terrible. Do not try it. I hope there's a better South African Whiskey out there. If so...someone let me know.

Danny


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## jcusey

Last night while enjoying UF obliterate OSU, I had a glass of Arran Malt 10 YO. Arran is a young distillery, and it is just beginning to have stocks of sufficient age to sell as malt whisky, rather than just the blends that they have been putting out. I enjoyed this offering. It's a bit hot, but it's very malty and very satisfying. Let's hope that Arran keeps it up.


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## Wayfarer

CostCo with a Big Mac bottling? Wow, guess who is headed there this weekend? If I remember right, Macallan is a Speyside, which is my favorite area for Scotches, a little sweeter and alot less peaty than most Highlands. 

To the gentlemen that are fans of manhattans, I totally agree, that is not a waste of good rye! This is my favorite drink, although I am afraid I do not make quite the standard recipe. I like 2 parts rye, 1 part Stock vermouth. I can drink it on the rocks, or shaken with a cherry (fresh sour cherry preferred, typical bar stock if need be). The rye is of course my favorite one, the one I can not get in Arizona, Wisers. A Wisers Oldest (18 years) manhattan, sitting on a boat in the Great Lakes, is one of my life's greatest pleasures.


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## johnjack11

Have you tried Middleton very rare (Irish), it is Jameson's high end whisky and is very smooth. Also the entire Balvenie series especially the portwood is a treat.

I love the "harsh" scotches you are referring to, but have a special place for the smooth ones too!



JBZ said:


> For me, it's a number of things:
> 
> - First and foremost, it's the taste. I just generally prefer the taste of bourbon to most scotches. Generally, I find the taste fuller, yet mellower, if that makes any sense. I find many scotches to be just too harsh for me (particularly the Islay scotches, although some absolutely love them).


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## Tyto

Danny said:


> Redbreast Irish Whiskey....preferably in Houth, Ireland....but I'll take it anywhere.Danny


Danny: have you found Redbreast in the states? I've wanted to try it for some time, but I haven't seen it anywhere.

On a similar note, has anyone here tried Green Spot? I'd read a very favorable review of it by Dave Broom (IIRC) some time ago, but haven't seen it in the states. We seem to miss out on so much scotch here--it's only partially alleviated by the relative ease with which great bourbon can be had.

Edit: I've had the Coscto MacAllan bottling (it's actually a 19 year). Not the same sweetness as the "regular" (I don't know whether it had the sherry cask treatment), but still very nice. And at $69 (yes, you read that correctly!), you'd be insane not to try it.


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## jcusey

Tyto said:


> Danny: have you found Redbreast in the states? I've wanted to try it for some time, but I haven't seen it anywhere.


Don't know where in California you are, but up in the Bay Area has it and could ship it in state. I have also seen it down here in Houston, although it is not in stock at my favorite liquor superstore at the moment.

And thank you for the feedback on the Costco Macallan.


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## Danny

Tyto said:


> Danny: have you found Redbreast in the states? I've wanted to try it for some time, but I haven't seen it anywhere.
> 
> On a similar note, has anyone here tried Green Spot? I'd read a very favorable review of it by Dave Broom (IIRC) some time ago, but haven't seen it in the states. We seem to miss out on so much scotch here--it's only partially alleviated by the relative ease with which great bourbon can be had.
> 
> Edit: I've had the Coscto MacAllan bottling (it's actually a 19 year). Not the same sweetness as the "regular" (I don't know whether it had the sherry cask treatment), but still very nice. And at $69 (yes, you read that correctly!), you'd be insane not to try it.


Tyto, yes I see it regularly. I buy it at Wells Liquors here in Baltimore, about $45. You should be able to find it online somewhere. If not call the importer or Jameson's...Jameson's actually imports it I think.

Danny


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## jcusey

Danny said:


> Tyto, yes I see it regularly. I buy it at Wells Liquors here in Baltimore, about $45. You should be able to find it online somewhere. If not call the importer or Jameson's...Jameson's actually imports it I think.


Both Jameson's and Redbreast (and a large number of other Irish whiskey brands) are distilled at the Midleton Distillery, which is owned by the Irish Distillers Group. There has been tremendous consolidation in the Irish whiskey industry -- only three distilleries (Bushmills, Midleton, and Cooley) are left.


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## Wayfarer

This CostCo scotch....is it off the website only? Neither CostCo in my berg has it, nor their ultra-premium French Vodka, which I had planned on buying. If it is from the website, Arizona is out of luck. I have had this problem before trying to ship my beloved Wisers here. It seems one cannot ship spirits to AZ.


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## yachtie

*Favorite Whisky?*

Laphroaig, neat. 18 yr when available, 10 yr usually.


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## Danny

jcusey said:


> Both Jameson's and Redbreast (and a large number of other Irish whiskey brands) are distilled at the Midleton Distillery, which is owned by the Irish Distillers Group. There has been tremendous consolidation in the Irish whiskey industry -- only three distilleries (Bushmills, Midleton, and Cooley) are left.


Yes I believe the Irish Whiskey industry was basically wiped out by prohibition [don't ask me why the drinkers in Europe couldn't keep it going...I have no idea why]

That's why only a couple folks make it now.

Anyway, Redbreast is the only Irish Whiskey made the old 'Pure Pot Still' way. At least as far as I know.

It's gooooooood.

Danny


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## jcusey

Wayfarer said:


> This CostCo scotch....is it off the website only? Neither CostCo in my berg has it, nor their ultra-premium French Vodka, which I had planned on buying. If it is from the website, Arizona is out of luck. I have had this problem before trying to ship my beloved Wisers here. It seems one cannot ship spirits to AZ.


It may be that Costco can't get or does not want to go to the trouble to get liquor licenses for its stores in Arizona. The liquor laws in the various states are Byzantine and obtuse.



Danny said:


> Anyway, Redbreast is the only Irish Whiskey made the old 'Pure Pot Still' way. At least as far as I know.


There's also Green Spot, which is also made at Midleton Distillery but which is considerably younger than Redbreast. I have never seen it in the US -- just read about it.


----------



## JSK

I'm sorry to have perhaps gotten your hopes up over something that's not readily available to you, Wayfarer. It is available on the shelves in the Orange County, CA Costcos. I assumed wrongly that it would be available in all the states. Off topic I suppose, but are you talking about Ciroc when you mention the vodka? It is tasty, though I'm not sure whether it's just my mind playing tricks on me because I know grapes are used in its production, I detect a pleasant grape flavor in it. A sizable portion of my friend's freezer is devoted to the storage of the massive bottle. At least the Costco version is massive. Not sure if that's the version available elsewhere. I had forgotten that I'd also had the Balvenie 15yo, and found that to be much better than the Balvenie 12yo as well. I think I may have improperly stored some whisky on its side, as I was a bit perturbed to find that the cork in my Balvenie 12yo had developed some rot or other such unpleasantness. As I didn't have any other bottles, I poured the remainder into a bottle of Johnnie Walker Gold I had, and found that I liked the resultant mixture quite a bit better than the two on their own. I'll try to get some of the Costco bottling of Macallan, though I'm not sure if I'll be able to anytime soon as I let an auction on a pair of Alden's get a bit out of hand.


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## Danny

jcusey said:


> It may be that Costco can't get or does not want to go to the trouble to get liquor licenses for its stores in Arizona. The liquor laws in the various states are Byzantine and obtuse.
> 
> There's also Green Spot, which is also made at Midleton Distillery but which is considerably younger than Redbreast. I have never seen it in the US -- just read about it.


I wasn't aware of that. Good to know...I'll look out for that when I am in Europe next.


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## jimbabwe

Buying Highland Park 12 yr at $29.95/750ml. Something about being way up in the Orkney Islands that makes me believe that clean air, water, peat makes a great scotch. Very good for the money but not what it was 10 years ago when it reigned supreme. 

Laphroig 12 year is my number #1 at $41.95/750ml. How scotch is able to have a sweet taste mixed with a strong smell of peat is remarkable.

Lagavulin 12 year along with Cragganmore and I'll take the very strong smell of peat with Lagavulin over Cragganmore. However, I certainly wouldn't turn down a bottle of Cragganmore either.

Rosebank was my favorite but they've seemed to have disappeared as the consolidation (take-over) phase has kicked in. Being part of the "hippie generation" we sure have become greedy and money grubbing bastards at all cost. Can't think of another generation that has screwed up more industries relative to product quality than ours.

Have you tried to buy a "solid wood" door lately? Virtually cannot be found other than Pine.


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## Wayfarer

I tried Cragganmore for the first time last weekend, the 1892 Distillery edition. It was at my scotch and stogie bar. So good I went out and got a bottle the next day, about $60. A very, very nice speyside IMO, speyside being my favorite type of Scottish single malt.

I am continuing to try to get some Suntory but no luck. Looks like I am going to have to head to Phoenix to score a bottle.


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## johnjack11

I have had the Green Spot, it is sold by a wine merchant in Dublin by the name of "Mitchell and Sons". I had heard greet things, people were comparing it to Middleton.

It was decent, but nowhere near as good!



Tyto said:


> Danny: have you found Redbreast in the states? I've wanted to try it for some time, but I haven't seen it anywhere.
> 
> On a similar note, has anyone here tried Green Spot? I'd read a very favorable review of it by Dave Broom (IIRC) some time ago, but haven't seen it in the states. We seem to miss out on so much scotch here--it's only partially alleviated by the relative ease with which great bourbon can be had.
> 
> Edit: I've had the Coscto MacAllan bottling (it's actually a 19 year). Not the same sweetness as the "regular" (I don't know whether it had the sherry cask treatment), but still very nice. And at $69 (yes, you read that correctly!), you'd be insane not to try it.


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## jcusey

johnjack11 said:


> I have had the Green Spot, it is sold by a wine merchant in Dublin by the name of "Mitchell and Sons". I had heard greet things, people were comparing it to Middleton.
> 
> It was decent, but nowhere near as good!


That's not surprising. I have never tried Green Spot, but everything that I've read about it has emphasized that it is a young and lively whiskey, which is very different from the descriptions that I have read about Middleton.


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## Coolidge24

Scotch- J&B 

Whiskey- Jack Daniels


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## Spencer

Irish whiskey - Bushmills

Bourbon -Rare Breed ( barrel cut Wild Turkey 108 proof)


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## southernstunna

I'm sure I'm the only person to say this, but I'll drink Evan Williams like it's my job. But I'm in college so it's acceptable I guess...haha.

Maker's Mark is always good when I have the funds though.


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## CobraKaiBocce

Buffalo Trace is the Bourbon. Unfortunately they do not sell it in Alabama so I have to pick up a rack of it every time I go to our farm in Kentucky. It has a very strong bourbon taste with a great aroma with out the burn or harsh after taste of Turkey. I try to stay away from the high proof bourbons as they are more burn and bite than taste. I know taste is a matter of personal opinion but this is my opinion and I am sure there are those who love WT for its bite I appreciate Makers Mark but you are really paying for their advertising(think about how many periodicals have MM adds, it is a lot.). To those who have not tried BT, next time you go to the ABC pick up a bottle, you will be glad you did.


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## jcusey

I picked up a bottle of Aberfeldy 12 YO yesterday. It's a Highland malt that is the principal malt in Dewar's blended Scotches. This is not a Scotch for peatheads -- there isn't much peat at all. Instead, it is a full-bodied whisky with the heather and honey overtones that are typical of Highland malts. I wouldn't put it up there with my favorite Scotches, but it was enjoyable.


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## jcusey

*A new rye to try*

I'm too lazy to go look for it, but I think that I have mentioned the bottle of Sazerac 18 YO rye whiskey that I was lucky enough to find a few months ago. It's part of the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection (along with George T. Stagg, Eagle Rare 17 YO, and some others), which means that it's released in very limited quantities once a year at a very high price (especially for an American whiskey). It's also simply outstanding, the finest rye whiskey that I have ever had and among the best whiskeys of any type. But it's so hard to find and so expensive that I hesitate to drink what I have knowing that it will be difficult and painful to replace it.

Anyway, Sazerac has come out with a new bottling of rye whiskey. It doesn't have an age statement on the bottle, but I have found references around the web that seem to indicate that it's 6 YO. It is very good -- typical rye spiciness and fruitiness, lots of vanilla and caramel, and more polished than, say WT101 Rye. It has a similar taste profile to the Sazerac 18 YO, but it's hotter and more rough around the edges. Of course, it's also $22 a fifth rather than over $50, and I hope that it will be more widely-available than the Sazerac 18 YO is. If you like rye whiskey, pick up a bottle if you see it.

(Edit: I also picked up a bottle of Highland Park 12 YO and was reminded of how good that Scotch is -- one of the best whiskeys that I have ever had of any age at any price. And the good news is that it's only $32 a fifth.)


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## morgan

*Favourite single malt?*

The Caol Ila 12 for me.

(In my day job, I co-author 'The Quaich', the magazine for the Friends of the Classic Malts and write much of the content of malts.com.)


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## jcusey

morgan said:


> The Caol Ila 12 for me.
> 
> (In my day job, I co-author 'The Quaich', the magazine for the Friends of the Classic Malts and write much of the content of malts.com.)


Caol Ila 12 is my favorite peat-heavy Islay -- Lagavulin 16 tastes like dirty sweat socks to me, anf Ardbeg 10 is just too pungent. I also like Bruichladdich 10, but that doesn't have a whole lot of peat.

I enjoy malts.com, and I'm sure that I would enjoy The Quaich if I received it. Now, could you convince Diageo to distribute more Royal Lochnagar 12 in the US? Pretty please, with sprinkles on top? :icon_smile_big:


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## morgan

*In all seriousness...*

I'm seeing them next week so I shall put it to them. Let me know where you live (area) by email and I'll hassle them! 

BTW, joining the Friends is free and 'The Quaich' is the free members' magazine. The tenth anniversary edition has just gone to print and is worth getting for the offer of the Talisker 12, a bottling exclusively for the Friends and one that will never be made available in the shops.


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## Wayfarer

Kind of co-incidence here today. I just did my monthly silver polishing on my pipes, a task I just hate, and decided to give my sterling silver quaich a quick shine too as I have a friend coming over tonight with a "secret" bottle of Scotch for us to try! Can you join on the website you listed Morgan? And jcusey, thank you for the tip on the Sazerac. To be honest, I have never given rye whisky made in the US a thought! I will look for that next weekend when I make my usual trip through my favorite beverage shop.


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## jcriswel

*What a disappointment*




jcusey said:


> Lagavulin 16 tastes like dirty sweat socks to me...


Lagavulin is by far my favorite liquor... all varieties considered. I am so disappointed you don't feel the same way. It has the wonderful peat flavor and just warms you as it does down. It is an exquisite experience.

jcriswel


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## jcusey

morgan said:


> I'm seeing them next week so I shall put it to them. Let me know where you live (area) by email and I'll hassle them!


Thanks! PM sent.



> BTW, joining the Friends is free and 'The Quaich' is the free members' magazine. The tenth anniversary edition has just gone to print and is worth getting for the offer of the Talisker 12, a bottling exclusively for the Friends and one that will never be made available in the shops.


I joined a few months ago, but I don't think I've ever received the magazine. In any event, I'm looking at some of the articles available on the website, and they are very interesting. Due to idiotic liquor laws (AKA distributor protection laws) here in the US, I doubt that the Talisker 12 would be available, which is a pity.


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## jcusey

jcriswel said:


> Lagavulin is by far my favorite liquor... all varieties considered. I am so disappointed you don't feel the same way. It has the wonderful peat flavor and just warms you as it does down. It is an exquisite experience.


Oh, don't be disappointed. Tastes differ; and if I don't like it, there will be more left for you. :icon_smile_wink:


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## morgan

*Matters arising:*

"Can you join on the website you listed Morgan?"

Oh yes, just answer a few market research-type questions first and you're in. There's members-only content which is pretty good. (I had to say that, didn't I?)

You should receive 'The Quaich', JC, but now I am writing, I think there's a reluctance of the part of Diageo US to send it to US members because it's perceived that you chaps aren't interested in reading about malt whisky (which I can't believe). That said, I've just been doing some US-only articles for the anniversary edition so hopefully they'll be with you later this year.


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## jcusey

morgan said:


> You should receive 'The Quaich', JC, but now I am writing, I think there's a reluctance of the part of Diageo US to send it to US members because it's perceived that you chaps aren't interested in reading about malt whisky (which I can't believe). That said, I've just been doing some US-only articles for the anniversary edition so hopefully they'll be with you later this year.


It would be interesting to see what percentage of Diageo's sales come from the US market, what the malt/blend split is here, and how that split compares to the splits in other markets. My perception is that the super-premium market in Scotch has really taken off here (super-premium including both high-end blends like JW Gold and Chivas 18 as well as most single malt bottlings) and that its success is at least partially the reason for the exponential expansion of the number of super-premium bottlings for other spirits types (boutique Bourbons and ryes, for example, and very expensive tequilas). Of course, it could be that I assume that because I want to try just about every single malt out there, everybody else must want to as well.

FYI, other distillers in Scotland do send their newsletters to the US (Laphroaig and Ardbeg are two that I know I've gotten in the past).


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## Wayfarer

Well after doing some reading on the 'Net for "Sazerac", I found several intriguing recipes for the drink also, so I decided to do some experimenting last night. I took my last bottle of 18 y/o Wisers whisky, a bottle of Un Emile blanche absynthe, a little simple syrup, and lacking the proper bitters, I used Angosta. With a little experimentation I came up with the following:

three parts rye
one part absynthe
one part simply syrup
two dashes bitters

Shake and pour. Very different from anything I have associated with whisky, slightly sweet with the pervasive licorice/anise flavour of the un Emile. Very potent (absynthe is about 175 proof) and with the double impact of also having wormwood.


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## morgan

'It would be interesting to see what percentage of Diageo's sales come from the US market, what the malt/blend split is here, and how that split compares to the splits in other markets.'

I'll ask, JC. Meanwhile, I think your general points are right. Do you like the Ardbeg marketing? I think it's quirky but good, though if it were a suit, I wouldn't buy it.


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## jcusey

morgan said:


> I'll ask, JC. Meanwhile, I think your general points are right. Do you like the Ardbeg marketing? I think it's quirky but good, though if it were a suit, I wouldn't buy it.


Oh, the Ardbeg marketing is enjoyable enough. It hasn't made me buy any more Ardbeg, but that's a function of the whisky and the fact that I don't really like it. *

* I will freely acknowledge that Ardbeg is a well-made whisky with a definite personality. It certainly is for some people, just not so much for me. Not that I would turn down a bottle.


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## rkipperman

jcriswel said:


> Lagavulin is by far my favorite liquor... all varieties considered. I am so disappointed you don't feel the same way. It has the wonderful peat flavor and just warms you as it does down. It is an exquisite experience.
> 
> jcriswel


Same here. I have noticed that people who dislike Lagavulin will usually dislike all smokey (peaty) type of scotch.

My favs are Lagavulin, 18 yr McAllen, Knob Creek (the only Bourbon I like), and Aberlour A'bunadh.


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## Mr. Papa

I've spent a lot more time around bourbon and Tennessee whisky bottles than I have scotch bottles, but I have tried many more scotches in the last couple of years. I think I prefer the less peaty scotches in general, and I have grown especially fond of The Glenlivet and Macallan. I appreciate some of the peaty scotches like Talisker and some of the blended Islay scotches I have tasted recently, but only in smaller doses. That said, I had a few bourbon comments to make. First off, I think that Bookers, Bakers, and Basil Haydens all come from the same distillery, and I wonder some times if the only difference is a little magic in the blending and how much water they add. I love Basil, but I think it's practically the same as the others, but with more water, and frankly I have indoor plumbing. 

I really like Wild Turkey Rare Breed and the grade below it, Russell's Reserve. They have a unique mouth feel and burst with flavor, and it's hard not to drink it daily but it's hard to find and expensive up here. I was very disappointed by Blantons when I tried it, and feel likewise about Eagle Rare. I don't know how to describe it, but these bourbons and some of the scotches in the blended and cheaper single-malt category, (Famous Grouse, Pinch, and Dalmore 12 yo) all have a broad, flat taste to them that I don't appreciate. Maker's Mark may be pedestrian to some, but I hold it and Wild Turkey 80 or 101 higher than JD, Beam Black, or any of those other 'macho' bourbon pours I have tried, and I often buy them over Bookers, Knob Creek, Bakers, and Woodford (even though I like Woodford.)

Have any of you tried the George Dickel bottling with the yellow / white label? I think it's a good one. Also Elijah Craig is pretty tasty, but I haven't had it for years.

Can someone recommend a scotch with the general characteristics of The Glenlivet, only with a peatier flavor and a little more 'oomph' in the nose?

Thanks!


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## Tyto

rkipperman said:


> Same here. I have noticed that people who dislike Lagavulin will usually dislike all smokey (peaty) type of scotch.
> 
> My favs are Lagavulin, 18 yr McAllen, Knob Creek (the only Bourbon I like), and Aberlour A'bunadh.


All wonderful choices, but have you ever tried Booker's bourbon? It's cask strengh (120 proof, IIRC) and has a monstrous, almost peaty bite to it. You might also try some of the more refined/aged ryes, such as Sazerac.

I enjoy bourbon immensely when I want a sweeter drink (and prefer the wheated bourbons as a result); for something punchier, Islay scotches. One major benefit of bourbon is that good bourbon can usually be had for far less money than good scotch. Of course, Booker's and Sazerac are notable exceptions to this. . . .


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## Tyto

Mr. Papa said:


> Also Elijah Craig is pretty tasty, but I haven't had it for years.
> 
> Can someone recommend a scotch with the general characteristics of The Glenlivet, only with a peatier flavor and a little more 'oomph' in the nose?
> 
> Thanks!


Elijah Craig 12-yr is worth going back to: it's still very vanilla-like and smooth, and still sells at some places for around $18. The EC 18-yr is also interesting, but very different: nice, but almost too smooth.

Regarding a kind of punched-up Glenlivet: I'd try MacAllan 12 or 15. The sherried finish comes at the end; the dram actually begins with some definite peat--though clearly not an Islay level of peat--and is more . . . "assertive" than the famously smooth MacAllan 18.


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## Cole

Greetings ! Whiskey will be my first post.


My pick for this years top bourbon is :

George T. Stagg

Since I can't seem to aquire a taste for Islay's my current pick is :

Balvenie Portwood 21

Of course always with a cigar while sipping.


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## Wayfarer

Cole said:


> Greetings ! Whiskey will be my first post.
> 
> My pick for this years top bourbon is :
> 
> George T. Stagg
> 
> Since I can't seem to aquire a taste for Islay's my current pick is :
> 
> Balvenie Portwood 21
> 
> Of course always with a cigar while sipping.


Welcome aboard! Whisky is indeed a great topic to chose for your first post.

If you like the Balvenie 21, try a Craigennmore Distillery. For about 1/2 the price, I think it drinks even better.

Cheers


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## Cole

Wayfarer said:


> *Welcome aboard!* Whisky is indeed a great topic to chose for your first post.
> 
> If you like the Balvenie 21, try a Craigennmore Distillery. For about 1/2 the price, I think it drinks even better.
> 
> Cheers


Thank you very much for the welcome! I really enjoy the B21, but my thrifty Scott heritage, though small (only about 5%- the rest is Deutsch :icon_jokercolor, tells me to look into your suggestion-and I will. I drink very little these days-an ounce or so per sitting. For me it's used to "accent" the tobacco choice of the moment.

Once again, thank you for the welcome! :icon_smile:


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## rkipperman

Tyto said:


> All wonderful choices, but have you ever tried Booker's bourbon? It's cask strengh (120 proof, IIRC) and has a monstrous, almost peaty bite to it. You might also try some of the more refined/aged ryes, such as Sazerac.
> 
> I enjoy bourbon immensely when I want a sweeter drink (and prefer the wheated bourbons as a result); for something punchier, Islay scotches. One major benefit of bourbon is that good bourbon can usually be had for far less money than good scotch. Of course, Booker's and Sazerac are notable exceptions to this. . . .


I love bookers, but it is very strong.


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## SoutherWinds

I'm a fan of Seagrams 7!


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## Rossini

Scottish: Highland Park 18, Lagavulin, some of the Glenmorangie Sherry or Port-wood finishes for a smoother flavour...

Irish: Jameson Gold or 18 yr old; Bushmills Millenium

Bourbon: Woodford Reserve?


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## Corcovado

As a genuine Kentucky hillbilly here is my two cents on bourbon:

Makers Mark is the best everyday bourbon to drink straight or on the rocks. To mix with Coke just about anything will do, such as Jim Beam. Bookers is my favorite but I've never tried Basil Hayden, and frankly when the Bookers bottle is empty I'll replace it with another one. I have recently had Buffalo Trace for the first time and I liked it a lot. It's similar to Makers.

Just because something is made in Frankfort does not mean that it is made at the Buffalo Trace distillery. The Jim Beam distillery in Frankfort is distinct from the Buffalo Trace distillery. I have visited the latter recently. The BT brand is new but bourbon has been made at that particular distillery for a long time under different brand names (some of them quite funny). It is an interesting campus to visit, but the best distillery tour IMO is the Woodford Reserve distillery. It is located between Frankfort and Lexington in the heart of horse country. They have a beautiful visitors center and the tour is very interesting. They have these beautiful pot stills:



The Maker's Mark distillery is also open for tours but it has been a long time since I visited. If you come to Lexington for horse racing at Keeneland, the Woodford Reserve tour is a convenient sidebar to your activities. The Maker's Mark distillery is considerably further away from Lexington.

FWIW I mostly drink cheap scotch. My wife encourages me to stick to Johnny Walker red because as long as I do I won't know what I'm missing. She may have a point.


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## jcusey

Corcovado said:


> The Jim Beam distillery in Frankfort is distinct from the Buffalo Trace distillery.


There are two Jim Beam distilleries, neither one in Frankfort. One is in Clermont, the other in Boston. (The one in Boston was Booker Noe's home base, and it has recently been named after him.)


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## Corcovado

jcusey said:


> There are two Jim Beam distilleries, neither one in Frankfort. One is in Clermont, the other in Boston. (The one in Boston was Booker Noe's home base, and it has recently been named after him.)


There is large facility at 3200 Georgetown Road, Frankfort, KY operated by Jim Beam but on further reflection the brand of bourbon distilled there is actually Old Grand Dad. (pic of the sign) Or is it just a warehouse these days? Anyway I raise a glass (of scotch) to your superior knowledge of where exactly JB is made. But my original point in response to your post remains in that there is more than one distillery in Frankfort. Certainly many of the brands from Frankfort are of BT origin though.



jcusey said:


> There are lots of Bourbon brands out there, but there aren't a whole lot of distilleries. A trick that someone wiser than I am taught me was to look at the city mentioned on the label to identify which distillery produced the whiskey. Clermont is Jim Beam. Frankfort is Buffalo Trace. Bardstown is Heaven Hill, Barton, or Kentucky Bourbon Distillers (okay, that one's not so easy). Louisville is Brown-Forman or Bernheim. Most of the rest are obvious because the distilleries don't have multiple brand names -- the Austin Nichols Distillery in Lawrenceburg just produces various bottlings of Wild Turkey (the Rare Breed bottling, by the way, is the best Bourbon that I have ever tasted), and the Maker's Mark distillery in Loretto just produces Maker's Mark, for example.


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## huysmans

Glenlivet 12, Balvenie doublewood 12, Johnny Walker Black (and of course Blue), Jameson 12.

My next purchase is going to be a cask strength, maybe the Laphroaig or the Macallan.


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## jcusey

Corcovado said:


> There is large facility at 3200 Georgetown Road, Frankfort, KY operated by Jim Beam but on further reflection the brand of bourbon distilled there is actually Old Grand Dad. (pic of the sign) Or is it just a warehouse these days? Anyway I raise a glass (of scotch) to your superior knowledge of where exactly JB is made. But my original point in response to your post remains in that there is more than one distillery in Frankfort. Certainly many of the brands from Frankfort are of BT origin though.


Back before Jim Beam acquired National Distillers in 1987, Old Grand-Dad was distilled in Frankfort (probably at the plant whose sign you pictured). After the acquisition, however, that distillery closed, and all OGD distillation moved to Clermont or Boston (Clermont, I think, but I'm not sure). Jim Beam still retains that site and probably many others throughout the state as storage facilities for aging whiskey. The same is true of most other of the remaining Bourbon distillers -- they all own one or many defunct distilleries that they use as sites for warehouses.

Edit: Upon examining my recent bottle of OGD Bottled-in-Bond, I see that it was distilled in Clermont and bottled in Frankfort; so evidently, Beam runs a bottling plant at the OGD distillery site in addition to aging whiskey there. As an aside, this is one nice thing about whiskeys that are bottled-in-bond -- by law, the label must state what distillery produced it and what distillery bottled it, and that identification must be by DSP number. Every whiskey producer has a raft of DBA names, but each facility has just one DSP number (well, usually).


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## ksinc

Mr. Papa said:


> Can someone recommend a scotch with the general characteristics of The Glenlivet, only with a peatier flavor and a little more 'oomph' in the nose?
> 
> Thanks!


You could try the Clynelish 14 yo. As Way mentioned, Cragganmore 12 yo is also a good one to try after The Glenlivet.

I'm enjoying a Glenlivet 18 yo at the moment and thought I would search for a scotch thread ... I had to wash all these Christmas Cashew nuts down with something!


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## Rossini

Two selections for Christmas:

- 15 YO Bowmore Darkest
- Auchhentoshan Three-Wood


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## Good Old Sledge

I had the great fortune to be involved as "talent" for a TV show earlier this year called "How the Best is Done," during which we visited several of the major distilleries in Kentucky and I got to sit with Master Distillers and try and learn to taste what they taste. Chris Morris walked me through their (Woodford Reserve) barrel plant, teacing me what to smell for at every step. I got to sit with Elmer T Lee at his old tasting table (at which he's presided as Master Distiller at Buffalo Trace for some 50 years) and even got to sample 5 different barrels of Eagle Rare that had been barrelled on the same day (dramatic difference between them after a few years, actually). Fantastic oportunity.
At the time, after 5 pretty intense days of tasting, I came away loving George T Stagg. Barrel Proof (the bottle I have now is 144.8 proof) that doesn't punish you. Just good, rich, powerful whiskey taste.
Since that time, however, I've gravitated toward some less powerful stuff. Eagle Rare is terrific, and their historical expression is divine. In fact, all of Buffalo Trace's historical bottles are excellent with my all-time favorite being the William Larue Weller at 117.9 proof.
There are Pappy Van Winkle expressions, too, that are well worth your time, and, for those cost conscious among us, Elijah Craig is hard to beat.
I love Maker's Mark's folks, facility and marketing, but for me, it's a bit sweet. They do, however, make by far the best tasting White Dog (whiskey before it's barrelled).


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## MichaelS

*Greenspot Whiskey and Scotch whisky*

After wanting to try it for several years I finally had the chance to try Greenspot when we were in Ireland over Christmas. It was quite good but for my untutored palate it was not as good as some of the reviews I have read would make it out to be. I would certainly buy it again if it was available anywhere in the US that I travel to.

It did have a true Irish Pot Still character (which I believes comes fromt he mixture of both malted and unmalted barley) which is rare anymore and was quite "lively" as it is younger than a lot of others.

While Irish Whiskey does have its place, I also still really like the stronger Scotch Whisky such as Ardbeg and Laphroiaig. I hope to someday try the Octomore being distilled by Bruichladdiah which will have quite a bit more peat than either Ardbeg and Laphroaig.

One scotch that I really like and seems to be underpriced for a really good single malt is Glen Farclas. You can still get 25 yr old in VT for less than $100. It has a very complex and interesting tase. We got a bottle of 39 yr old cask strength Glen Farclas from the Scotch Malt Whiskey Society that is out of this world.

Michael


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