# Thoughts on a Barbour International



## GamecockGrad (May 8, 2012)

My girlfriend bought me a Barbour International for my birthday. It is my first Barbour. I have a similar to a Barbour bedale in a green waxed cotton that was Italian made that I bought 3-4 years ago, however, I'm wondering if ill wear the international.

What does everyone think of the International?

Is it Trad/Preppy enough to be a casual go-to khakis and loafers or jeans and chukkas?

Am I better off exchanging it for a Bedale or more classic Barbour coat?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

GamecockGrad said:


> My girlfriend bought me a Barbour International for my birthday. It is my first Barbour. I have a similar to a Barbour bedale in a green waxed cotton that was Italian made that I bought 3-4 years ago, however, I'm wondering if ill wear the international.
> 
> What does everyone think of the International?
> 
> ...


The international is a true classic.

It has a distinctively different look and feel to the Bedale, which is a country jacket. The international is a motorcycle jacket.

If it fits you well, you like the color and it goes well with your other clothes, keeping it should be a no-brainer. It may have a more contemporary fit than the Bedale, which fits like a tent on me.

From people who actually ride motorcycles, I've heard they are very practical when doing just that. They can of course be used for other purposes as well, I doubt the majority of Bedale users hunt in them.

As for going with a trad/preppy aesthetic, it's a motorcycle jacket, a classic, and thus fits within its own sporting genre. It's long enough to cover a jacket.

It will need a good 2-3 years of use before looking right. Don't forget to wax annually.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

The Barbour website is a labyrinth...very difficult to find anything...I gave up after 10 clicks.

But does the jacket really have that "Barbour" patch on the right breast pocket? Not my style. 

Are there really pouch pockets on the back of the jacket? Kinda neat, but a little impractical when sitting on/in anything with a seat back (car, bus, train, etc.)


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## GamecockGrad (May 8, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> The Barbour website is a labyrinth...very difficult to find anything...I gave up after 10 clicks.
> 
> But does the jacket really have that "Barbour" patch on the right breast pocket? Not my style.
> 
> Are there really pouch pockets on the back of the jacket? Kinda neat, but a little impractical when sitting on/in anything with a seat back (car, bus, train, etc.)


The patch and then contrast of the gold buttons on the black are what leaves doubt.

im leaning towards keeping it even though it is not as much my style and if I crave down the road a Bedale to get one myself.

i live in Columbia, SC so it's not like a Barbour is part of everyday life.

the Intenrational is a bit different and you see them more on girls thus why I have a metro vibe from the coat and probably why my gf who has a Bedale herself but wants an international got me the international.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

GamecockGrad said:


> The patch and then contrast of the gold buttons on the black are what leaves doubt.
> 
> im leaning towards keeping it even though it is not as much my style and if I crave down the road a Bedale to get one myself.
> 
> ...


You have a girlfriend. If you are not questioning your sexuality, I doubt a barbour international will push you over into being gay.

The question is rather if you want a motorcycle jacket or not. There are few motorcycle jackets as classic as the intl.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

GamecockGrad said:


> ...the Intenrational is a bit different and you see them more on girls thus why I have a metro vibe from the coat and probably why my gf who has a Bedale herself but wants an international got me the international.


This sounds like a unique opportunity. If you're the same size, just let your GF wear the international.

From the old pics I saw, it looks cool...just a little impractical in non-cycling situations.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Barbour can never be accused of overlooking their 'heritage', they obsess endlessly over it. A couple of years ago they were pushing a jacket that had originally been made for submariners in the war, so by comparison promoting Steve McQueen's motorbike jacket for everyday wear must be a walk in the park for their hyperactive marketing department.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Langham said:


> Barbour can never be accused of overlooking their 'heritage', they obsess endlessly over it.


I don't like the huge "Barbour" patch but paying homage to your past is a good thing.

I wish LL Bean, Lands End, Woolrich, Duckhead, Johnston & Murphy, Pendleton, Timberland, Sebago, Sperry, etc. would do more of that...instead of paying lip service to the idea. That is, I don't like hearing "We at <X> honor our heritage by bringing back an oldie in a new modern cut that resembles the original in name only and that we now manufacture somewhere not here."


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> I don't like the huge "Barbour" patch but paying homage to your past is a good thing.
> 
> I wish LL Bean, Lands End, Woolrich, Duckhead, Johnston & Murphy, Pendleton, Timberland, Sebago, Sperry, etc. would do more of that...instead of paying lip service to the idea. That is, I don't like hearing "We at <X> honor our heritage by bringing back an oldie in a new modern cut that resembles the original in name only and that we now manufacture somewhere not here."


They say their factory is still at South Shields, in County Durham, which I have no reason to doubt. That is one reason why they can charge premium prices.

I bought some Timberland boots recently because they were on sale at half-price. I was not surprised, but still rather disappointed, to find they were not made in the USA.


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

I would trade it on the Bedale or similarly classic style. My $0.02.

Real mc jackets are cut for riding - rotated, longer sleeves and longer backs. They don't fit well when not on a bike. Even if this is not a specialized mc jacket, I might still use it for riding some bikes (like those mentioned in the ad with more upright riding positions), but I wouldn't wear it off the bike. One would think a jacket that can keep you reasonably warm and dry at below freezing temps at 70 miles per hour would be a good winter jacket, but when I tried it it just looked weird and didn't work that well. The only purpose for a non-rider wearing one is to make other non-riders think they ride. I don't think I have ever seen a mc rider wear an mc jacket when they were not actually riding. The Bedale, on the other hand, looks nice and functional.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

LordSmoke said:


> The only purpose for a non-rider wearing one is to make other non-riders think they ride. I don't think I have ever seen a mc rider wear an mc jacket when they were not actually riding.


It seems that half of America is preoccupied with convincing other Americans that they do something they don't:


The surfboard, kayak, or windsurfboard on top of the car...that never comes off.
The bike rack or ski rack that is always on top of the car, but never seems to have any gear on it.
The guy who looks like he has $5000 worth of flyfishing gear and clothing...all in pristine condition...as if they've never seen the side of a stream.
The guy with a $2000 set of golf clubs that have no nicks or scuffs.

The guys who actually do things tend to be pretty ratty. They might have top notch equipment, but the equipment is very worn from actual use. Usually, they have very average equipment but they know how to use it and have the experience to use it well.

If the International is an actual piece of techincal gear that is well-designed, then it seems a shame to waste it as a fashion accessory. But such is life in America. Everyone wants street cred...whether earned or not.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

LordSmoke said:


> ..The only purpose for a non-rider wearing one is to make other non-riders think they ride. I don't think I have ever seen a mc rider wear an mc jacket when they were not actually riding. *The Bedale, on the other hand, looks nice and functiona*l.


Meanwhile, somewhere else on the internet...

"The only purpose for non-equestrians wearing a Bedale is to make other non-equestrians think they ride. I don't think I've ever seen a real equestrian wear an equestrian jacket outside of a paddock. The International, on the other hand, looks nice and functional." :tongue2:


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> Meanwhile, somewhere else on the internet...
> 
> "The only purpose for non-equestrians wearing a Bedale is to make other non-equestrians think they ride. I don't think I've ever seen a real equestrian wear an equestrian jacket outside of a paddock. The International, on the other hand, looks nice and functional." :tongue2:


A little unfair as the technical nature of the Bedale is not entirely obvious, but point taken.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> A little unfair as the technical nature of the Bedale is not entirely obvious, but point taken.


I wasn't trying to make a point, really. I just think it's funny how all things are relative. I agree that the Bedale and the Beaufort are less obvious in their "intended" use but even the International is not really representative of what the average person thinks of as a motorcycle jacket.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> I wasn't trying to make a point, really. I just think it's funny how all things are relative. I agree that the Bedale and the Beaufort are less obvious in their "intended" use but even the International is not really representative of what the average person thinks of as a motorcycle jacket.


My fault for reading too much into it. I thought you were making a brilliant point about how some technical gear have turned into everyday items without any baggage attached. For example, the Sperry Topsider was once technical gear that can now be worn without any connotation that the wearer is a sailor. The Lacoste tennis shirt can be worn by anyone without the wearer being confused for a tennis player. I think the Bedale falls into that category. I'm unsure about the International. Hence my reticence to lump the Bedale in with the International.

But I guess the bottom line is that, today, if you like it, wear it. And if the GF likes it and you don't, you should probably wear it anyway...or let her wear it in your stead.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

My unvarnished view is not positive: It looks like a Barbour escapade into the branded [email protected] Hackett knock out. It may be a Barbour classic, but it looks far too brand-fashion orientated to be in good taste. Like the City boys who wear pristine Barbour waxed jackets over their suits, with the Barbour pin on the collar (instead of confining their 15 year old dog-eared Barbours for mucking out the pigsty, a la Lord Emsworth).


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Take a look at the Barbour website. There is much evidence of marketing hype - Barbour say they have 'revisited their military archives', but these seem to have contained designs intended for leisure time on the beach, rather than storming the beach.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Langham said:


> Take a look at the Barbour website. There is much evidence of marketing hype - Barbour say they have 'revisited their military archives', *but these seem to have contained designs intended for leisure time on the beach, rather than storming the beach.*


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Balfour said:


> Like the City boys who wear pristine Barbour waxed jackets over their suits, with the Barbour pin on the collar (instead of confining their 15 year old dog-eared Barbours for mucking out the pigsty, a la Lord Emsworth).


At what point does a piece of clothing transcend its original purpose?

As I remember, the standard outerwear for the city executive, the trench coat, was originally designed for the doughboys of WWI to wear while wallowing in the filth and mud. Obviously, not too many trench coats get soiled today. I'm not saying that the Barbour should be worn over suits, but I am saying that a piece of clothing through superior design can be used for purposes unintended by the original designer. Time will tell if that unintended use is merely fashion or grounded in utility. If the latter, then it will be very difficult to prevent others from using the piece for its new purpose.

BTW, I agree that the Barbour collar pin should be removed prior to the wearing of the jacket. The gratutious "Barbour" stitched on the pouch pocket flap of the newer Barbour jackets should suffice for the brand conscious!


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ Visibly branded clothing is naff. 

The chavs (sorry, chaps) who wear Barbours over suits are typically nouveau riche braying City boys (not Hooray Henrys, rather wannabe Hooray Henrys), and their clothing choices align perfectly with their crass attitudes.

I speak as someone who enjoys my ten year old Barbour as a battered old country jacket for weekend walks, not just mucking out!


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Balfour said:


> ^ Visibly branded clothing is naff.
> 
> The chavs (sorry, chaps) who wear Barbours over suits are typically nouveau riche braying City boys (not Hooray Henrys, rather wannabe Hooray Henrys), and their clothing choices align perfectly with their crass attitudes.
> 
> I speak as someone who enjoys my ten year old Barbour as a battered old country jacket for weekend walks, not just mucking out!


What I'm hearing is that it's not the message (Barbours can make great city overcoats), but rather the messenger (braying Londontown boys). Fair enough.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> "The only purpose for non-equestrians wearing a Bedale is to make other non-equestrians think they ride. I don't think I've ever seen a real equestrian wear an equestrian jacket outside of a paddock. The International, on the other hand, looks nice and functional." :tongue2:


Doesn't sound like that person has been to England much. You see Bedales everywhere, on cyclists, pedestrians car drivers. Conversely, I think people who wear the International want other people to think they ride motorbikes. I think it looks awful, especially if you aren't riding a motorbike.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Doesn't sound like that person has been to England much. You see Bedales everywhere, on cyclists, pedestrians car drivers. Conversely, I think people who wear the International want other people to think they ride motorbikes. I think it looks awful, especially if you aren't riding a motorbike.


I don't doubt it. I own one myself and it's been years since I was last in a saddle that wasn't attached to a bicycle. My comment was meant as a joke to illustrate how small groups of aficionados react to the appropriation of their culture by the masses.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> My comment was meant as a joke to illustrate how small groups of aficionados react to the appropriation of their culture by the masses.


Oh, okay, I thought you were quoting someone. Your humour is far too subtle for me sir.


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> Meanwhile, somewhere else on the internet...
> 
> "The only purpose for non-equestrians wearing a Bedale is to make other non-equestrians think they ride. I don't think I've ever seen a real equestrian wear an equestrian jacket outside of a paddock. The International, on the other hand, looks nice and functional." :tongue2:


Interesting point. I suppose it is that the International looks so much like an mc jacket to me, which I know generally to be terrible winter coats, that makes it stand out. Evenso, it not a well-designed one - the exposed metal snaps would wreak unnecessary havoc on painted surfaces.

The Bedale just looks like a nice winter jacket to me. My unschooled eye sees nothing equestrian in it.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

LordSmoke said:


> The Bedale just looks like a nice winter jacket to me.


If there is ONE thing the Bedale isn't, it's winter jacket. Mine gets hung up in about October & comes out again in May. It is too short and thin for a winter jacket.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

We can moan about Barbour being popular or be grateful they aren't going bust 

Since the Int'l actually IS a classic I wouldn't worry. I have the Benham in navy myself, which I a variation on the Cowen Commando in flyweight waxed cloth. It's from the heritage collection, so much more contemporary fit, slimmer. It looks great. 

I've tried a lot of Barbur jackets, and the Heritage models fit me well, over a sweater or odd jacket. That's the main thing, fit.

Conversely to most posters here, when I go onto their web site, there aren't all that many things I don like...

Sometimes you go on like they are making Burberry baseball caps  

I wish more brands would do what Barbour does, rater than going bust. But they should discontinue the Bedale just on account of the lack of support here.


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## thrombox (Sep 10, 2008)

Barbour - They were not going bust with their traditional clientelle which they have now largely lost in parts. What they've done now is thrown the short sighted fashion card and that may be good in the short term but as we know with other companies is not such a great long term plan, it also destroys the quality of the product and Barbour has most certainly dropped theirs. Its almost as if a part of the company died anyway because of this "modernisation", the traditional part that made people like barbour in the first place.

I wear and wore Barbour internationals the jacket and the trousers known as the international suit and also the Nato suit specifically for motorcycling and nothing looks better on my old bike which I still use daily despite its age. Barbour have stopped producing the trousers because Barbours are no longer meant to be practical but "fashion" and the jacket now has a stupid great big "International" sign on it.

Now I have to contest with idiot fashionistas who wear this jacket because they think wearing classic motorcycle gear that Steve McQueen wore is cool but not practical, for me it is the latter. I also have to search for the older gear on ebay because Barbour won't produce it anymore, their new models are rubbish, i.e. they will produce the motorcycling trousers but only in green and not waxed??? My god...

My two pence.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

I think almost all of my friends who had motorbikes (this was way back when I was 17-18, a long long time ago) preferred the Belstaff waxed jackets to anything else.

These firms - Belstaff, Burberry, and now Barbour - do themselves no favours at all by becoming popular, fashionable and successful, do they, now? I preferred them all when they were no more than two weeks away from bankruptcy and the workers were all out on strike, at least they still had some residual scrapings of integrity then, without any websites or other malarky.


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## thrombox (Sep 10, 2008)

I have Belstaff stuff but in leather, and they were always going bust for decades, they produce nothing but Italian rubbish today since the takeover (thats not to say I don't think Italian clothes are great for women). Burberry and Barbour had no need to fashionise so much, Burberry is an unrecognisable brand now, may as well be Zara, so thats already dead wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, and their old trench coats were just amazing.. Wanted to buy what I thought was a classic trench and the last in their line, what a load of rubbish it was compared to my old one.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Langham said:


> I think almost all of my friends who had motorbikes (this was way back when I was 17-18, a long long time ago) preferred the Belstaff waxed jackets to anything else.
> 
> These firms - Belstaff, Burberry, and now Barbour - do themselves no favours at all by becoming popular, fashionable and successful, do they, now? I preferred them all when they were no more than two weeks away from bankruptcy and the workers were all out on strike, at least they still had some residual scrapings of integrity then, without any websites or other malarky.


Websites or other malarkey? 

This is an Internet forum after all 

I find the Belstaff waxed jacket a little too technical looking. And Che wore it...


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

It's not just any old Italian rubbish, though, is it, it's extremely expensive Italian rubbish. My motorcycling mates, if they were still alive now, would have to pay almost as much for their Belstaff kit as they would be paying for their inflation-adjusted Bonnevilles and Bantams or whatever today's equivalents are.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> Websites or other malarkey?
> 
> This is an Internet forum after all
> 
> I find the Belstaff waxed jacket a little too technical looking. *And Che wore it.*..


Clearly a sound man of decided views. (But would I think of taking a waxed jacket to wear in Cuba?)


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## thrombox (Sep 10, 2008)

Langham said:


> My motorcycling mates, if they were still alive now, would have to pay almost as much for their Belstaff


Except for they wouldn't be buying motorcycling kit in the case of Barbour and most Belstaff, because practically they are dead for the only reason that they fashionised a classic product. Most traditional British industries had been suffering a slow decline since the 70s, strikes etc. so thats no excuse, they just needed revatilising and the internet also arrrived proper in the 90s, what they've done now is just gone way off course.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

thrombox said:


> Most traditional British industries had been suffering a slow decline since the 70s, strikes etc. so thats no excuse, they just needed revatilising and the internet also arrrived proper in the 90s, what they've done now is just gone way off course.


I'm well aware of all that, having grown up in the North East and now living in a town with empty shoe factories along every other road - survival at any price is the name of the game.


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## Geezer (Apr 22, 2010)

I bought one in the sales to fill a niche at the scruffier end of my wardrobe. While I agree that Barbour are heavily overdoing the fashion thing, I was never very sold on the Bedale/Northumbria trad waxed coats and in principle welcome their trawling of the back catalogue for new old ideas.

The truly horrible big dayglo yellow patch is easily removed after purchase with a seam ripper or the scissors on a Swiss army knife. Mine was, and is much better for it.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

GamecockGrad said:


> My girlfriend bought me a Barbour International for my birthday. It is my first Barbour. I have a similar to a Barbour bedale in a green waxed cotton that was Italian made that I bought 3-4 years ago, however, I'm wondering if ill wear the international.
> 
> What does everyone think of the International?


I looked over all the pages and think there's an overriding point being completely missed. You have a girlfriend with GREAT TASTE. It's not like she bought you something from the Macy's sunday flyer. This conversation is like getting a Porsche as a gift, and complaining about the color. C'mon people, this isn't even splitting hairs (that would be insulting to hair). I would strongly suggest not changing a thing (unless it simply doesn't fit), saying thanks until it gets boring, and start working on what cool gift you might get her when it's your turn.

What kind of a girl chooses an International as a gift for her significant other? A great one, that's who. That's refined taste right there.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

medhat said:


> I looked over all the pages and think there's an overriding point being completely missed. You have a girlfriend with GREAT TASTE. It's not like she bought you something from the Macy's sunday flyer. This conversation is like getting a Porsche as a gift, and complaining about the color. C'mon people, this isn't even splitting hairs (that would be insulting to hair). I would strongly suggest not changing a thing (unless it simply doesn't fit), saying thanks until it gets boring, and start working on what cool gift you might get her when it's your turn.
> 
> What kind of a girl chooses an International as a gift for her significant other? A great one, that's who. That's refined taste right there.


+1...


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

medhat said:


> I looked over all the pages and think there's an overriding point being completely missed. You have a girlfriend with GREAT TASTE. It's not like she bought you something from the Macy's sunday flyer. This conversation is like getting a Porsche as a gift, and complaining about the color. C'mon people, this isn't even splitting hairs (that would be insulting to hair). I would strongly suggest not changing a thing (unless it simply doesn't fit), saying thanks until it gets boring, and start working on what cool gift you might get her when it's your turn.
> 
> What kind of a girl chooses an International as a gift for her significant other? A great one, that's who. That's refined taste right there.


I'd be seriously psyched if my wife gave me an International. Much of the clothing my wife has given me hangs unused in my closet, and in fact I'm seriously thinking about listing two of the items on the sales forum.

The International is seriously awesome looking, by the way. One of the best dressed men I know wears one over his suits sometimes, and I think he looks great. He also wears a Bedale in the "rustic" color, which is also terrific. To be frank, he looks sharper than I do in my olive Beaufort, which is a handsome classic, but the International and the Bedale in the non-standard color have an edge to them. Hat's off to the guy.

I am among those who has a hard time finding Barbour stuff I don't like. Alas, I can afford very little of it, even on sale.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> As I remember, the standard outerwear for the city executive, the trench coat, was originally designed for the doughboys of WWI to wear while wallowing in the filth and mud.


From the Dept of Nitpicking:

"Doughboy" was slang for Americans in the WWI AEF. The trenchcoat was optional for British officers beginning around 1900 and was used in WWI with slight modifications.


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## krystle920 (Dec 2, 2008)

Although I would love to get a classic Barbour jacket, the only jacket that fits me correctly is the Barbour International Waxed Cotton in a US size 2 / UK size 6. I was surprised how the smallest jackets in most models was a US size 4 / UK size 8. I think the classic ones are more iconic but the Internationals aren't bad especially if they fit better.


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