# expectations for a martini...



## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

On occasion I get to dine at really nice, fine dining traditional restaurants. A treat for sure! When I do, I like to order classic cocktails, as they are most likely to know how to properly make them. If I'm at just a regular food or drink place, I am perfectly fine ordering beer or regular spirits. It seems lately I am not satisfied with how it goes.

Some examples. First, I specifically order either a 'classic' martini or sometimes say 'make it traditional'. Then I get asked if I want Vodka or Gin. Egads. If I wanted a vodka martini (why would I), then I would have ordered one. Other times they will ask if I want it on the rocks (double egads). On and on with the questions --- " Do you want olives in it?", and so on. The real kicker the other day was after all the question and answer, the bartender grabbed a martini glass off the shelf (not cold), made the cocktail, and proceeded to shake it like there's no tomorrow. Freakin James Bond.


So my friends, I pose this to you. I'm really not a drink snob, and I never pretend to be something I'm not, but I would like a professionally run shop to be able to make a martini thats not just frozen gin; one that is prepared and presented in a way that enhances the experience, as it should. 

Any thoughts? 

Tom


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

It should also cost less than $2


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

TommyDawg said:


> On occasion I get to dine at really nice, fine dining traditional restaurants. A treat for sure! When I do, I like to order classic cocktails, as they are most likely to know how to properly make them. If I'm at just a regular food or drink place, I am perfectly fine ordering beer or regular spirits. It seems lately I am not satisfied with how it goes.
> 
> Some examples. First, I specifically order either a 'classic' martini or sometimes say 'make it traditional'. Then I get asked if I want Vodka or Gin. Egads. If I wanted a vodka martini (why would I), then I would have ordered one. Other times they will ask if I want it on the rocks (double egads). On and on with the questions --- " Do you want olives in it?", and so on. The real kicker the other day was after all the question and answer, the bartender grabbed a martini glass off the shelf (not cold), made the cocktail, and proceeded to shake it like there's no tomorrow. Freakin James Bond.
> 
> ...


Agreed. You always have to say exactly how you want it (or they'll mess it up). Martini on Tanqueray, stirred, 2 olives, very dry usually does it for me.

If ever in LDN, get ye to the Donovan bar at Browns Hotel, Mayfair. Excellent selection of classic Martinis, including on Hendricks with cucumber (the only time I don't get it with an olive).

The most common problem a part from the ones you stated are that bartenders tend to make them with too much Martini IMO.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> It should also cost less than $2


You can get a drink for 2$?


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

A few little observations:

Going in the other direction, in the last few years there have sprung up quite a few retro "cocktail culture" bars, with long menus of revived, re-imagined or outright newly-made-up cocktails. Kind of a hipster affectation, I guess, but fun. Often, preparation of a particular drink involves the bartender in an elaborate ritual of muddling, squeezing, icing and assorted other dance moves whose names I don't even know. The bartenders in such places usually carry themselves with the sort of self-regard and elan usually seen in star surgeons and BMW mechanics. Maybe they've just hired all the good bartenders away from the standard-issue "traditional" restaurants?

You do come across some lame bartenders, at least occasionally. Once, at a fancy party with several bars, I ordered a martini and the bartender when behind the bar, opened up a little box and pulled out a pre-printed index card for the recipe. Okay, that was on New Year's Eve, when trained bartenders are in short supply. But still....

In the same direction, even the standard bar nowadays has lot more choices in the ingredients. You almost always see what used to be oddball brands of gin, like Hendrick's, in back of the bar, along with various Dutch-style and previously unknown "craft distillery" products.

On the ordering front, I don't know that you can really blame the order taker. I don't know the numbers, but I'm pretty sure that the relative number of vodka- vs. gin-martini orders has been heavily in Russia's favor for several decades: I suspect at least 2/3 or martinis are vodka nowadays. In any event, when I order a martini (which is actually pretty often), I almost always phrase the order specifically: "[Call brand] martini, up, with olives."

As for shaking, there is a widespread opinion that shaken is the way it's supposed to be done. Blame James Bond, or Ian Fleming, Cubby Broccoli, I guess. In most cases, the people who robotically repeat "shaken, not stirred," have no idea what they're talking about. There are some who actually prefer ice chips in their martini, though. Lightweights.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

As far as gin Martinis are concerned, they are supposed to be stirred gently, not shaken, since shaking bruises the gin. Though apparently that has been disproved.

The drink doesn't look anywhere as good shaken though.

Interesting article:
https://www.drinkboy.com/Articles/Article.aspx?itemid=9


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

There isn't a 100% solution here, IMO. You have several choices:

1. Go to a hip cocktail establishment like Starch mentions.

Pros: Good, quality drinks. The menu may be somewhat whacky, but they will know how to make the basics.
Cons: They are rare when you are out in the sticks. The menus can border on absurdly overwrought and the prices high. You have to pay for the talent, you know.

2. Try explaining to a clueless bartender at a less classy establishment exactly how you want your drink.

Pros: Maybe priced better than your hipster cocktail bars and you may get it exactly how you want it.
Cons: It's a harrowing experience, to say the least, with a great chance of failure and you can forget about fresh squeezed anything.

3. Order a beer.

I typically choose option 3 or get something I figure they can't screw up, like whiskey and soda. Last time I ordered that, though, I got a bourbon and coke. 

Bartenders don't know how to make "the classics" for the same reason that Abercrombie and Fitch doesn't carry sack blazers and pocket squares: the majority of the population no longer shares our dated tastes. I recently got the notion that others might share my same "classic" tastes in cocktails and began running the under-utilized bar out of a family member's restaurant. Much time was spent on a menu that blended the classics with the theme of the restaurant, using quality ingredients and at a reasonable price. The result: little free time, a lukewarm reception and I found that I couldn't be a patron at my own bar. 

Tom, to answer your question, I would check out a trendy cocktail bar for an aperitif and maybe have a glass of wine with dinner. It's hard to get a good, honest drink at a reasonable price.


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

I suppose I could begin naming a specific gin in the order process. And I could request dry, or very dry, and stirred. I guess that would help to keep it from getting messed up. Its too bad that is needed. But ultimately, my goal is to have a drink the way I like it! Starch, I agree with you that vodka outnumbers gin martinis hands down. While true, we've now accepted that it is a martini, when its not. Its like when I order a Coke, and the server assumes Pepsi is ok. Its not. Martini, like Coke, is a unique and specific drink. I liked your comments about the new type of bars and newly made up drinks to recreate old classics. Luckily, I dont frequent those types of places. Anyway, it gave me a good chuckle. Thanks for the replies (and for not taking this to seriously).


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey Doghouse. Was hoping you'd join in. Very rarely can the mess up a beer! and +1 on your comments our traditional tastes, whether its in clothing (as you so well put it) or in our drinks. I know that you are a traditional mixologist and I enjoy your posts. Thats funny about your trying to stir up interest in classics at your bar. Just no accounting for good taste I suppose.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Bjorn said:


> You can get a drink for 2$?


At happy hour, at the old man bar, back when you could smoke indoors.

Those were the days, my freind!!


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

This brings back memories of the time I tried to order an Old Fashioned at a South Bend meat-and-three: the results were less than satisfactory, shall we say. But a martini? That's hard to mess up: I'd expect a decently made martini at Applebees. Probably best to take the consensus advice and ask for a preferred gin and that it be stirred. There's a chance you might get it, then.

Of course, the only surefire route is to drink at home.


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

TommyDawg said:


> Hey Doghouse. Was hoping you'd join in. Very rarely can the mess up a beer! and +1 on your comments our traditional tastes, whether its in clothing (as you so well put it) or in our drinks. I know that you are a traditional mixologist and I enjoy your posts. Thats funny about your trying to stir up interest in classics at your bar. Just no accounting for good taste I suppose.


Thanks Tommy. That's very true. 

I highly suggest checking out a cocktail establishment in your area. If the bartender is any good, they should be able to replicate your martini perfectly or you could even take a walk on the wild side, tell them what you like, and go with their suggestion. That's always the most fun, IMO. You get to try something new and the bartender feels a sense of pride knowing that you are putting yourself in their hands.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Titus_A said:


> I'd expect a decently made martini at Applebees.
> 
> Of course, the only surefire route is to drink at home.


1) Last I checked, they were still on the Appletini, Chocolatini, everything but a real martini craze.

2) ...and the company is more pleasant!!


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