# How To Distinguish Horn from Plastic



## Hyperspaced (Mar 16, 2006)

How can you tell the difference between horn and plastic buttons? Sometimes it is quite easy (e.g., thick horn buttons with complex colors). Recently, I saw thin black buttons that are supposedly horn, but I can't tell. Is there some simple way to distinguish? Thanks.


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## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

Once I heard/read that horn buttons feel cold against your nose. But that might as well be a fairy tale...


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## satorstyle (Jan 2, 2007)

I was also told horn buttons typically are not polished on the face, where plastic buttons are completely polished.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Look for a casting seam (I don't know what else to call it) around the edge of plastic buttons. And horn buttons will often have a roughness to them. I do use the touch it to your face test on MOP buttons.


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

Shell is the button that will feel cold against your cheek. Horn, less so. Plastic will not feel cold.

Horn can be polished or dull, either way.

On darker colors, it can be much more difficult to tell to an untrained eye. One of the giveaways would be a 'seam' around the button, indicating it is moulded urea. The seam is where the mould comes together. Polyester however is turned from button blanks and will not have that seam.

I'm trying to think of an obvious indicator, but to the untrained eye it may be difficult. If it looks 'too perfect', it's probably not real.

Check the side edge. If it looks a bit 'chattered', it's probably real. If it's a very smooth clean edge, it's likely plastic. This isn't really 100%, but it's a starting point.


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## Ofishbein (Aug 3, 2005)

But if you have too look so hard to tell, it shouldn't really matter.


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

Ofishbein said:


> But if you have too look so hard to tell, it shouldn't really matter.


Some items are blatantly obvious plastic. 10 years ago, it would be much easier to tell the difference. In the last several years there are much better plastic materials available in buttons, and designers taking a lot more care with selecting good looking buttons, so it is now much harder to tell. There are some great plastic pieces that you honestly can't tell from real horn.

The only 'true' test is to burn the item. Take a hot needle or paperclip end and press it against the back of the button. Horn is the same material as your fingernails and hair, it burns and smells. Plastic melts and deforms.


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## red96 (Jun 26, 2007)

Would it be safe to assume that the high-end suit makers (Kiton, Brioni, Oxxford, etc.) wouldn't use plastic buttons? Not that I'll be losing sleep over this tonight, but certainly curious...


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

trims said:


> Some items are blatantly obvious plastic. 10 years ago, it would be much easier to tell the difference. In the last several years there are much better plastic materials available in buttons, and designers taking a lot more care with selecting good looking buttons, so it is now much harder to tell. There are some great plastic pieces that you honestly can't tell from real horn.
> 
> The only 'true' test is to burn the item. Take a hot needle or paperclip end and press it against the back of the button. Horn is the same material as your fingernails and hair, it burns and smells. Plastic melts and deforms.


You can always try burning the entire button, too.

Up next, how to tell if your suit is fused.

1. Take a pair of scissors and cut the jacket face open.

2. Look for glue dots.

3. Throw away suit.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

I_Should_Be_Working said:


> Up next, how to tell if your suit is fused.
> 1. Take a pair of scissors and cut the jacket face open.
> 2. Look for glue dots.
> 3. Throw away suit.


Just make sure you do it in the dressing room at the store before you buy. That'll show those clueless salespeople at the Armani boutique!:devil:


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

I_Should_Be_Working said:


> You can always try burning the entire button, too.
> 
> Up next, how to tell if your suit is fused.
> 
> ...


Never said it was practical, but it does get results


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

red96 said:


> Would it be safe to assume that the high-end suit makers (Kiton, Brioni, Oxxford, etc.) wouldn't use plastic buttons? Not that I'll be losing sleep over this tonight, but certainly curious...


Never assume anything. I've seen low-end manufacturers use expensive buttons, and high-end manufacturers use cheap crap. All depends on the designers and production people.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

No, don't assume. I've seen buttons on high end suits that I'm pretty sure were plastic.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

*buttons*

plastic buttons are all identical, color, pattern, grain, shape. they are all identical.
although some manufactures can vary the color pattern.

horn all are different. check the grain pattern it should vary. sometimes you can feel the grain especially on the back side. and the color will vary a bit.

plastics are made by injection in multiple molds.

horn is made from blanks stamped from the horn, then turned one at a time on a lathe. then stained and polished.
any wonder they cost so much more.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

How much is a set of horn buttons for a suit?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

There are all sorts of different qualities and shapes for horn buttons. Some tailors even have them cut especially for their shop. Cost will vary.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

trims said:


> Never said it was practical, but it does get results


Nothing intended, I just saw some humor in that suggestion.

You are certainly right, though.


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## jsprowls9 (Jun 24, 2005)

trims said:


> All depends on the designers and production people.


It all depends on the *production specifications*, which are largely driven by budget, margins and available goods.

Actually, plastic technology has advanced. The highest calibre plastic buttons are cut off a rod and then lathed/turned in much the same way horn buttons are done. I'm not opposed to plastic, even on _designer _grade RTW. But, I prefer horn for custom clothing.

Sound is one indicator. But, the only real way to know is to burn test. We do burn tests in the shop with each shipment received prior to forwarding them to production. If we get 'switched', we present the goods to the designer/product manager for approval or replacement.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Some useful info:



the "opposite page" photo mentioned above... horn for washers:


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## David Bresch (Apr 11, 2004)

I think the problem is yet more difficult. Most horn buttons I have seen are composites (but not all) of plastic and horn. The horn buttons I have (sent from Savile Row) are the least attractive I have, dull and uninteresting.

I think the best thing (what I do) is just select the nicest buttons based on appearance, rather than material. I have never seen a high-end RTW jacket with anything but plastic buttons, by the way.


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## Hyperspaced (Mar 16, 2006)

Can a horn button be black without any real variation? I've looked, and the buttons seem to be horn based on some of the criteria above. Thanks.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Yes -- horn can be dyed.


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

RJman said:


> Yes -- horn can be dyed.


Bad idea. Yes it can, but results are often disastrous. The only dyed color that comes out decent is red horn.

Horn can be black. Usually it will have some type of white marks, but every so often you'll see one that is completely black.

The darker colors are the cheapest. "Blonde" horn as it is called, is only something like 10% of the available goods, and can easily be 4-5x the cost of 'black" horn.


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

a tailor said:


> plastic buttons are all identical, color, pattern, grain, shape. they are all identical.
> although some manufactures can vary the color pattern.
> 
> horn all are different. check the grain pattern it should vary. sometimes you can feel the grain especially on the back side. and the color will vary a bit.
> ...


There are two distinct versions of 'plastic' horn buttons:

1) Polyester -- made in long 'rods', which are then sliced into blanks and turned. Much like the picture you see a few posts above.

2) Urea -- usually moulded. These are the buttons that you can sometimes see a 'seam' around the edge if they are not finished properly. They can also be cut into blanks and turned on a lathe type machine, this lends a better look if done correctly

Urea is generally more expensive than poly.

The 'one at a time' comment above is a bit misleading. This isn't done by some artisan on an individual lathe, the turning is done on computerized button turning machines, very quickly and with very consistent results.


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## Hyperspaced (Mar 16, 2006)

These buttons are completely black. There are very few blemishes, and really none on the front face. There is nothing (else) that suggests plastic, given the advice above.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

This is going to sound weird...

Bite it.

Well, not completely, but feel the button against your teeth. No matter how well polished, I find horn feels a bit "grittier" and "firmer" than plastic (which seems slicker and more brittle).

Told you it was weird. But it also works for discerning mother of pearl from plastic too.


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

David Bresch said:


> I have never seen a high-end RTW jacket with anything but plastic buttons, by the way.


My Oxxford and Hickey Freeman suits and jackets all have horn buttons. Don't know about my Brioni and Kiton, Corneliani and Belvest, but probably they're some sort of a plastic as they're all the same color. One Belvest suit has MOP buttons!

If anyone is interested, I have quite a few matched sets of Oxxford horn buttons
for two and three button suits. I believe I also have a full set of Oxxford MOP buttons for a DB suit. I was going to sell them on ebay but haven't gotten around to it yet.


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## CPVS (Jul 17, 2005)

Remarkably, this thread comes just as I find myself wondering about the buttons on my new Field (Washington, D.C.) bespoke DB. They are black, "matte" rather than glossy, and have no color variation that I can tell. I'm going to try a few of the methods you gents mention, though I hesitate to try the foolproof (or rather, perfect but fool-prone) burn test.


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## David Bresch (Apr 11, 2004)

If they have no shine at all, they are almost certainly horn, probably like the ones I received from Savile Row.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

The Rubinacci material is valuable Matt.


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## Otter (Aug 14, 2007)

Holdfast said:


> This is going to sound weird...
> 
> Bite it.
> 
> ...


 this is good, but many people have a hard time with the tooth method. If you have access to magnification (10x or more) you may be able to see an "engine turned" effect. If you can see this, it is definately real horn. If you cannot however, unfortunately it doesn't definately mean that it isn't.
ref: Gemological institute of america


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

Otter said:


> this is good, but many people have a hard time with the tooth method. If you have access to magnification (10x or more) you may be able to see an "engine turned" effect. If you can see this, it is definately real horn. If you cannot however, unfortunately it doesn't definately mean that it isn't.
> ref: Gemological institute of america


No, turn marks can be present on plastic also. This can happen on any button that is turned from a blank rather than moulded. Same thing goes for the finish. Neither of these are indicators unfortunately.

**Edit -- don't want to come of as contradictory, but this is coming from almost 15 years in the button industry. The methods many of you are mentioning are clues, but most won't guarantee a correct identification.


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## Hyperspaced (Mar 16, 2006)

I took my wife to see the buttons. She observed that the holes for the thread are a different color inside, which she, I think correctly, believes rules out plastic.


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

Hyperspaced said:


> I took my wife to see the buttons. She observed that the holes for the thread are a different color inside, which she, I think correctly, believes rules out plastic.


Again, sorry but no. Many times the holes will be a rough texture and different color -- say 'whitish' on a dark button. This is due to the drilling of the holes and the finishing process. This would usually not happen on a polyester button, but could definitely be the case on a urea item.

They're probably real horn, but not definitely based on that observation.

You guys are very impressive in your knowledge and attention to detail! :icon_smile:


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

The other thing to do is to try to scratch the button (the side is the best place). Both horn and MoP are an organic subtance made of calcium - like your nails. Plastic is a tad softer than the calcium in your nails.


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## Kent Wang (Aug 2, 2005)

How about composites, that are made of horn dust combined with synthetics? I think I recall reading about those.


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

Kent Wang said:


> How about composites, that are made of horn dust combined with synthetics? I think I recall reading about those.


It's just marketing. There's really not much of an aesthetic difference compared to a good synthetic, and there's no strength difference. They have the same thing with "MOP powder".


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