# Hats & Trad?



## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Although the wearing of hats is an issue of debate (some say that they're costume, some, like me, find them very practical), what about Trad? Assuming that the Trad most of us think of consists of a Sack Suit or Sport Coat, Button-Down Shirt, and striped tie (this IS what most people call Trad, correct?), it originated during a time when the hat was falling out of favor by the younger crowd (the "Ivy-League" or "Campus" look, correct?).

Are hats a part of this Trad (again, I'm still going by the old definition of Trad, unless if it just means "Tailored" or, in some instances, regular, everyday clothing), considering that they were not worn by the creators, if you will, of Trad? If they are, what features would that hat have (since Trad is associated with the 1950s and the 1960s, would it be a narrow-brimmed hat with a center dent in gray with a black band and bow?).

-Quetzal


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

A good question. I'm not sure of its Trad status. However, I know for certain that I need one, due to the increasing scarcity of natural cover up there. The prime spot for men developing skin cancer is the top of the head, according to my doctor, and since learning this, I wear hats a lot. I wear a panama straw hat in summer, sometimes a cotton drivers cap of some kind for the warm months, a baseball cap for yard work and such, a Harris Tweed drivers cap for fall and winter, and also a felt Fedora-style hat for winter.

I'd like to add some sort of nicer bucket hat to the collection. Those may be more Ivy/Trad than what I've mentioned above.


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Gentlemen:
A simple search for 1920 ivy league men's hats will be revelatory. These were the same styles that have come down the ages to the present day.
Relax and enjoy the pleasure of fine headwear.
regards.
rudy


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Trad or not, my hairline (or lack thereof) dictates my use of a panama in the warmer months and a Stetson Saxon in "caribou" during the colder months. Still need to get a tweed flat cap, either Donegal or Harris...


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

orange fury said:


> Trad or not, my hairline (or lack thereof) dictates my use of a panama in the warmer months and a Stetson Saxon in "caribou" during the colder months. Still need to get a tweed flat cap, either Donegal or Harris...


Rarely step out of the house without wearing a hat. Felt fedoras, Panamas., tweed caps, (no baseball hats). I wear them for the protection they afford and it's something Iv'e been doing for years and I love them.I feel naked without them 
Many are vintage Stetsons open road fedoras, Borsalino Allesandrias new and old I purchased over forty years ago still going strong and many custom from several makers. At my age no one looks at them as costume It's something Iv'e done for the better part of my adult life. I usually receive compliments.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

At my age, even though I look a bit older than I am, in order to avoid costume I have to be careful to make sure that my use of brimmed hats go with the rest of my clothing- ie, felt fedora/overcoat, panama/linen pants/guayabera, etc. I've never understood when people wear trilbys with t shirts, but that's obviously not my thing.

i will occasionally use baseball caps (from my university, usually) if the context is right


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

As someone who's been folically challenged most of my life, I regularly wear a hat of some type, a fedora, a flat cap and an occasional baseball cap (for yard work or fishing).


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Excuse me a moment while I pull ou the old soapbox.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Years ago, perhaps not, but these days I wear hats a lot and not surprisingly have accumulated more than just a few hats to wear. For close to two decades I completed road runs of well over an hours duration on a regular basis. I frequently didn't wear a hat (and when I did, it was just a ball cap) or on many occasions, even a T-shirt, thinking the ladies could better appreciate my body that way)). These days, things have changed. I see the family doctor every so often so he can determine if any of the areas concern on my ears, neck and back have become pre-cancerous or cancerous and, not surprisingly, I consistently wear hats and shirts to prevent further damage! Don't wear a hat because it's Trad or just plain stylish, but rather wear one because it is the smart thing to do! Please learn from my lack of good sense.


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

At my age I'm fortunate to have all my hair -- I ain't bragging about the rest of me. And coming from a generation that saw the JFK inaugural at an impressionable age, I seldom wore hats. However, some things changed me. First was moving from subtropical Florida to the chilly north and learning a hat helped contain body heat in, well, the body. In the '90's a mostly outdoors work assignment in San Anton made me realize why all the tough hombres there wore wide-brimmed sombreros, so I got me a moderately-brimmed Resistol that kept my head from frying. Finally, a vacation through the Southwest this summer clinched it. Had I not brought an even wider brimmed cowboy hat I'd be, literally, toast. Now I wear them all the time: in summer, a wonderful Panama I've had for years, a boater, a narrower-brimmed straw fedora (this summer's J Press sale), a Gore-Tex baseball cap in the rain, a beater hiking hat for yard work, a Stetson for going to the rodeo; in winter, a jaunty suede driving cap and a tweed bucket I just purchased on the Exchange, plus I still have my NY felt fedora. No top hat (I've been tempted) but if in another lifetime I make it to the Presidency, I'll wear one to swear I'll defend the Constitution.


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## Natty Beau (Apr 29, 2014)

All I know is, if wearing a classic hat is not trad, then I don't want to be trad.


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## sskim3 (Jul 2, 2013)

All this talk about hats and i want to see more on the WAYWT! i know we see a few nice showings here and there. We already have a watch one going and shoes... why not hats?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

sskim3 said:


> All this talk about hats and i want to see more on the WAYWT! i know we see a few nice showings here and there. We already have a watch one going and shoes... why not hats?


It would be redundant. Go to www.thefedoralounge.com wherein all things hat are discussed.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

This debate over whether a hat is trad reminds me of the way some people espouse their beliefs because of their political affiliation. "Of course I think that; I'm a democrat," as opposed to "of course I'm a democrat; I think this."

As an academic debate of whether it is within the mainstream of the style, it's good fun. But to make one's decision based on whether it's part of trad, rather than whether one wants to wear it, and believes it looks good, certainly seems silly to me. Hopefully no one is doing that.


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

Since I don't really know how to define Trad I can only compare it to the Ivy/TNSIL style that I grew up with. Up through the Ivy League era of the 1950s a fedora was de rigeur for adult males. Take a look at any photo of spectators at a Major League Baseball game during that decade. By the 60s they became less popular and by the end of the decade it seems hats of any style, other than perhaps a watch cap in the winter, were seldom seen. The difficulty for a young guy wearing a fedora these days may be that it is even further out of mainstream youthful style than a sack suit and more obvious. As an old guy I have no problem wearing a felt fedora in the winter and a Panama in warm weather. Wear one if you like it. Just don't do it "ironically".


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

FiscalDean said:


> As someone who's been folically challenged most of my life, I regularly wear a hat of some type, a fedora, a flat cap and an occasional baseball cap (for yard work or fishing).


I wear my leather hat during the Fall And Winter.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I'm blessed to still have my hair but I'm definitely thinning so I wear my leather cap when it gets cooler.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Walter Denton said:


> Since I don't really know how to define Trad I can only compare it to the Ivy/TNSIL style that I grew up with. Up through the Ivy League era of the 1950s a fedora was de rigeur for adult males. Take a look at any photo of spectators at a Major League Baseball game during that decade. By the 60s they became less popular and by the end of the decade it seems hats of any style, other than perhaps a watch cap in the winter, were seldom seen. The difficulty for a young guy wearing a fedora these days may be that it is even further out of mainstream youthful style than a sack suit and more obvious. As an old guy I have no problem wearing a felt fedora in the winter and a Panama in warm weather. Wear one if you like it. Just don't do it "ironically".


Needs me a thumbs up button! In the interest of full disclosure, I spent 20 minutes selecting ribbon for new hat bands today, for both of my Fedoras.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

My nephew who is getting married and is still under thirty wears a stingy brim regularly and a panama when going out in the summer. Younger men are going more for hats than their fathers did. They don't have the money or the taste for Borsolino but they're getting there.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

sskim3 said:


> All this talk about hats and i want to see more on the WAYWT! i know we see a few nice showings here and there. We already have a watch one going and shoes... why not hats?


I second this motion, although that wasn't really my intention. Going to see hats on The Fedora Lounge is the same as going there to view vintage suits and ties, which some members choose not to do (there's nothing wrong with this, I'm just using it as a comparison). There is such thing as a modern hat, which looks very crude compared to hats of yore. They are made of a stiff felt (the only stiff felt hats should have grosgrain trim around the brim) rather than soft, have very high pinches, and, most notably, are raw-edged, which is not very good for snap-brimmed hats, which should have some sort of edge (this give the appearance of cheapness, and trying to fake a Work, or, more commonly known, a Western hat for an everyday hat), and are generally black ("the most basic color") or, if you look, gray, with most hats today made of wool (though there are fur-felts, but these are, for some reason, not as epic in touch as a pre-1970s hat).

As for this thread, OF COURSE it is necessary to wear hats (I don't understand how people cannot wear something for sun protection and temperature slashing, especially with a suit, and the winter is self-explanatory). I didn't intend for this to become a thread asking if people wear them (although it is very nice to hear that I'm not alone); rather, if they are considered Ivy-League style clothing because that style reached its prime when people began to (I still, after much research, fail to understand why) stop wearing hats, like bow-ties (although bow-ties are for another historical thread), as everyday clothes (after WWII, hats were generally worn exclusively with suits, business suits only after the 1960s, only until their final demise in the 1980s; for Americans, anyway).

-Quetzal


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

If I could find hats that fit well I might wear them more often. Size 7 7/8-8 is hard enough, but try finding it in a tall, too.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Reuben said:


> If I could find hats that fit well I might wear them more often. Size 7 7/8-8 is hard enough, but try finding it in a tall, too.


A google search should land you a couple of made to measure/made to order hatters, some as low as $100ish, a was my father's wool felt homburg that looks very handsome with his semi formal attire, birth day and evening.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

StylePurgatory said:


> A google search should land you a couple of made to measure/made to order hatters, some as low as $100ish, a was my father's wool felt homburg that looks very handsome with his semi formal attire, birth day and evening.


I feel like I'd have about as much luck ordering a MTM hat over the phone/internet as a man who's never owned a sport coat and has an odd fit to boot would with ordering a MTM/MTO jacket, though.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

If you have help measuring your head, its not bad. It's just circumference, width, and length. If you curve a stiff piece of cardboard around your head where you want the hat to sit, and have someone measure the opening while it is still on your head, you'll get a pretty accurate size. If you're still worried, you can then add an eighth of an inch or so both ways, and pad inside the band to make the fit exact.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Cold fall day here on the prairie, so I may just grab my Wigens green felt hat or my Harris Tweed drivers cap (aka flat cap). If I do, I'll attempt a WAYWT photo to set a good example for you whippersnappers.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

Reuben: If you're looking for flat caps in larger sizes try Hanna. My head is too large for most hats but Hanna, I have two and they're great. (Also widely available on the 'bay)

In the winter months I really like wearing them while wearing a larger coat, it balances the look somehow. They're a perfect match for things like Barbours and Duffle Coats.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

How do you measure your head in what hat one should wear?


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

I for one would really love to see or atleast talk about some examples of how to do TNSIL with a hat properly. I love hats, but wouldn't really know what would be the proper addition to classic trad outfits like say chinos, ocbd, reg stripe, blazer, or particularly in the fall/winter pairing with Shetlands and tweeds. I'm thinking a brown fedora would work, but not sure.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Gentlemen, If I may. I've been wearing hats for most of my adult life. Owning at least four or more dozen currently. From off the shelf Borsalinos, Stestsons and others both new and vintage, to include MTM and bespoke, fedoras and western. I'll try to clear up some misconceptions I'm reading about what some people to be fact. I wont belabor you with the various grades and blends of felts. The qualities of such and the various other applications in hat making. the OP if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong, stated raw edged brims are the sign of an inferior hat and that bound edges are superior. Not so..there are various edge styles, raw,bound,raw stitched, felted eg. Cavanagh edge where the edge is folded onto itself and stitched. No one more inferior or superior to the others. we have light weight felts. (bantams ) heavy, soft, firm etc. stingy brim, wider brim, tall crown, low crown, pinched front, C crown, center crease etc.What's a Trad hat? I dunno...I never encountered one. Well!!! what goes best with Trad, I dunno...maybe the one that best suits the shape of your face, your personality, complements your skin tone? If possible go to a hat shop and try on hats, you'll know when it looks right. If yo can't get to one, I'm sure there are websites that could guide you as to what would suit your shape face. Starting to get the picture. Hats are costume, unless your a hundred years old,how many times have you heard or read that. Keeps many from wearing hats when they would like to, much to my chagrin. I'm always being complemented on my hats,sure I'm a hundred now but those complements came all during my hat wearing life. Go tell some rugged cowboy his hat is costume, I know different genre,nonetheless. Be confident. Now, i'm not Trad, I'm not a member of the Lounge forum, just someone who has experienced wearing hats and their qualities for a long time. I hope this helps.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

EclecticSr. said:


> Gentlemen, If I may. I've been wearing hats for most of my adult life. Owning at least four or more dozen currently. From off the shelf Borsalinos, Stestsons and others both new and vintage, to include MTM and bespoke, fedoras and western. I'll try to clear up some misconceptions I'm reading about what some people to be fact. I wont belabor you with the various grades and blends of felts. The qualities of such and the various other applications in hat making. the OP if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong, stated raw edged brims are the sign of an inferior hat and that bound edges are superior. Not so..there are various edge styles, raw,bound,raw stitched, felted eg. Cavanagh edge where the edge is folded onto itself and stitched. No one more inferior or superior to the others. we have light weight felts. (bantams ) heavy, soft, firm etc. stingy brim, wider brim, tall crown, low crown, pinched front, C crown, center crease etc.What's a Trad hat? I dunno...I never encountered one. Well!!! what goes best with Trad, I dunno...maybe the one that best suits the shape of your face, your personality, complements your skin tone? If possible go to a hat shop and try on hats, you'll know when it looks right. If yo can't get to one, I'm sure there are websites that could guide you as to what would suit your shape face. Starting to get the picture. Hats are costume, unless your a hundred years old,how many times have you heard or read that. Keeps many from wearing hats when they would like to, much to my chagrin. I'm always being complemented on my hats,sure I'm a hundred now but those complements came all during my hat wearing life. Go tell some rugged cowboy his hat is costume, I know different genre,nonetheless. Be confident. Now, i'm not Trad, I'm not a member of the Lounge forum, just someone who has experienced wearing hats and their qualities for a long time. I hope this helps.


Perhaps I may have misspoken... I do like a raw edge, but not on city hats (i.e. hats with grosgrain bands and a bow or another fold that can be worn with suits and casualwear, such as Fedoras or Pork-Pies; I prefer "hat" rather than a specific name, as addressing it by name seems to, at least to me, call it a costume or that they focus too much on their hats, which is simply intended to protect you from the elements, but again, that's just me; in my opinion, the average person kept forgetting to buy and wear hats, though some like me have and will always wear them) that are intended to be a softer felt (stiff felt hats include Derbies, Homburgs, and my favorite, Lord-Style Hats; these would look atrocious if they did not have a grosgrain edge to maintain its stiff and formal shape), as the brim does not "snap" (it's hard to put a hat down on a flat surface when the front of the brim is still snapped down; this may potentially cause an unattractive warping). All urban straw hats (or "Dress Straw", but I've always thought that Straws were technically casual) should have an edge to maintain the snap shape; the only exception are Sennit (I hate the term "Boater", even if that's what they were called; the terms that I've seen in catalogs and have even heard in movies are "Sailor Straws" and "Sennits", named so because of their weave), which obviously don't snap due to their stiff construction.

On non-urban Hats (i.e. those made of felt and straw but have casual features such as those of Western Hats, including leather bands, that are not intended to be worn with dress clothes, which are suits and the like), I think that it's O.K. to have a raw edge, as it is more of a casual feature, but of course, some men, depending on where they live, may prefer to wear a Western-style Hat with their suits (and, there is that famous model that Stetson made, but its name escape me at the moment). I have a nice example of one of these types of hats; it is brown and looks very much like Oppenheimer's hat (which is, in my opinion, NOT a Pork-Pie but a Telescope-Crown Hat; a Pork-Pie is a "dressier" variation with a grosgrain band, intended to be worn with a suit), but with a brown, leather band.

As a child, I grew up watching movies from the 1920s to the early 1990s, primarily those made in the 1930s to the 1980s that were set in urban environments or even in the past; as a result, I thought that it was normal to wear a hat with a suit, and that this was what all men would wear in the busier districts of cities; a hat (usually what I described as an "Urban/City Hat"), a white or a pastel-colored shirt (either a Button-Down or a French-Cuff) with a Tie (again, I didn't know that Bow-Ties were not commonly worn by the modern man), a Suit (fastening didn't really mean anything; if they like a Double-Breasted, over a Single-Breasted, then that was what they liked; vests, on the other hand, meant, and still means, warmth, to me), a Handkerchief tucked into the breast pocket (usually a simple white linen, or that men would just not wear one that day), and shoes, either brown or black (spectators were for the summer). For Formal occasions, men would wear a Tuxedo or Tails (I always knew that Tails were Formal; it must have been that little white tie) in the evening, and a Cutaway for very Formal Day occasions (I thought that a "Stroller" was something that British Salesmen/heads of a department store would wear, putting a little flower into their lapel; otherwise, men would just wear their best suit). I've had this notion for a VERY long time (it was not until I was 10 that I realized that this was not the sartorial case), long before I've joined this forum and the Fedora Lounge, both of which I joined this year. Before High School, I would always wear a cap; since High School, I've worn a small gray hat (I guess it's a "Pork-Pie", if anyone wants a specific name). I too am not really Trad, not do I really have a particular "style"; if I like the article of clothing and it fits, I'll take it.

But to go back to the original purpose of my thread, IS there such thing as a "Trad" hat?

-Quetzal


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

(stiff felt hats include Derbies, Homburgs, and my favorite, Lord-Style Hats; these would look atrocious if they did not have a grosgrain edge to maintain its stiff and formal shape),

Bravo to you, for your fondness for hats. I take minor exception to your quote above , I have examples of each of the hats you describe and true they look best with bound edge. However, the exceptions would be styles of western hats with kettle curl or pencil curl, such hats are stiff as well and maintain their shape with or without bound edge, a bound edge is either desired by the wearer or not, I have many examples of both. Agree, you should avoid placing any hat down on it's brim. The Stetson model your probably referring to is called Boss of the plains.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

I think the primary thing, more than whether or not a certain shape is "trad", is that it complements your facial features. For example- though they're popular (or were a couple years ago), trilbys (or what everyone was calling a "fedora") looks good on very few people because of the short brim. Some of you may remember the Lands End Harris Tweed I posted a couple moths back- I really wanted to like it, but a brim under 2" really doesn't work for me.

i normally prefer to wear mine with an overcoat (both for visual balance and because if it's cold enough for an overcoat, it's cold enough for a hat), but because a thread is worthless without pics, this is my Stetson from last winter with Harris tweed and a wool tie:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...4-463D-9917-AC2450729E7D_zpsqikafpo3.jpg.html

Not really sure how trad it is, but it keeps me warm and I like it. Plus, it looks better with a suit than a stocking cap.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

orange fury said:


> I think the primary thing, more than whether or not a certain shape is "trad", is that it complements your facial features. For example- though they're popular (or were a couple years ago), trilbys (or what everyone was calling a "fedora") looks good on very few people because of the short brim. Some of you may remember the Lands End Harris Tweed I posted a couple moths back- I really wanted to like it, but a brim under 2" really doesn't work for me.
> 
> i normally prefer to wear mine with an overcoat (both for visual balance and because if it's cold enough for an overcoat, it's cold enough for a hat), but because a thread is worthless without pics, this is my Stetson from last winter with Harris tweed and a wool tie:
> 
> ...


Excellent. Kudos to you.

You have reiterated my suggestion in my original post, to find a hat that suits your features.


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

orange fury said:


> I think the primary thing, more than whether or not a certain shape is "trad", is that it complements your facial features. For example- though they're popular (or were a couple years ago), trilbys (or what everyone was calling a "fedora") looks good on very few people because of the short brim. Some of you may remember the Lands End Harris Tweed I posted a couple moths back- I really wanted to like it, but a brim under 2" really doesn't work for me.
> 
> i normally prefer to wear mine with an overcoat (both for visual balance and because if it's cold enough for an overcoat, it's cold enough for a hat), but because a thread is worthless without pics, this is my Stetson from last winter with Harris tweed and a wool tie:
> 
> ...


I really like this look, as I do all of your rigs. Am I correct in assuming that's gray fur felt with a black grosgrain band/bow


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

EclecticSr. said:


> Excellent. Kudos to you.
> 
> You have reiterated my suggestion in my original post, to find a hat that suits your features.





ThatDudeOrion said:


> I really like this look, as I do all of your rigs. Am I correct in assuming that's gray fur felt with a black grosgrain band/bow


Thanks for the compliments gents. TDO: you are correct, it's the Stetson Saxon in "caribou", it's fur felt with a 2" brim, 4" crown, and 1 5/8" grosgrain band. For the crap that current Stetsons occasionally get on the forums, this has been an absolutely wonderful hat. I've thought about getting a second one in "walnut" (tan/light brown), "cordova" (dark brown), or "midnight" (navy). If you're considering getting one though, I definitely echo an earlier suggestion to go try on multiple styles at a hat shop and see what works best with your features.

also, my panama (2.5" brim):
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...D-44C1-9A50-1B5E726AF72D_zps2xyctns5.jpg.html

I prefer the shorter 2" brim on my Stetson, but because the function of the panama is to block sunlight (as opposed to the Stetson's function, which is warmth), I don't mind the slightly longer length


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

orange fury said:


> I think the primary thing, more than whether or not a certain shape is "trad", is that it complements your facial features. For example- though they're popular (or were a couple years ago), trilbys (or what everyone was calling a "fedora") looks good on very few people because of the short brim. Some of you may remember the Lands End Harris Tweed I posted a couple moths back- I really wanted to like it, but a brim under 2" really doesn't work for me.
> 
> i normally prefer to wear mine with an overcoat (both for visual balance and because if it's cold enough for an overcoat, it's cold enough for a hat), but because a thread is worthless without pics, this is my Stetson from last winter with Harris tweed and a wool tie:
> 
> ...


You look like Joe Friday, nice outfit.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Good looks, OF!

One thing about my wearing of the hat, especially when I don the Wigens felt... Mrs D gives an appreciative look, smiles broadly, and quips: "Indiana Jones!" And when I don't laugh, she says: "But I like it." 

I'm destined to feel always that I've got an "Indiana Jones" look going on with my hats, but frankly, I don't care. I do need an alternative for when I'm in my LLB field coat. I can start to see the Indiana Jones thing too much there. Wondering what that might be. Maybe a tweedy bucket cap? Or a flat cap? Not sure.


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

Right now I have a few different twill flat/ivy caps and a 2.5 inch brim cotton twill safari hat that I bought this summer. I definitely want to get a Panama for next summer, but in the meantime I want to get a fedora in will/fur felt for the fall and winter. Your caribou looks great with the rest of the colors in the outfit you posted, but I wonder if I should go for a gray felt or a brown felt if I'm more likely to wear warmer colors like British khaki hunter green, chocolate brown and the like as it cooler. For dark suits or outfits built around worsted and flannel grays, a gray hat seems to be a no brainer, but do you think it would be versatile enough to look good with chinos and a brownish tweed for example?


orange fury said:


> Thanks for the compliments gents. TDO: you are correct, it's the Stetson Saxon in "caribou", it's fur felt with a 2" brim, 4" crown, and 1 5/8" grosgrain band. For the crap that current Stetsons occasionally get on the forums, this has been an absolutely wonderful hat. I've thought about getting a second one in "walnut" (tan/light brown), "cordova" (dark brown), or "midnight" (navy). If you're considering getting one though, I definitely echo an earlier suggestion to go try on multiple styles at a hat shop and see what works best with your features.
> 
> also, my panama (2.5" brim):
> https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...D-44C1-9A50-1B5E726AF72D_zps2xyctns5.jpg.html
> ...


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Question for the hat experts. I found a new Knox Twenty fedora (I think) with the box. Anyone know much about Knox?


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Question for the hat experts. I found a new Knox Twenty fedora (I think) with the box. Anyone know much about Knox?


Whoa, sounds like you've found a vintage hat (I believe that that particular brand has been defunct since the 1970s)! Chances are that you've found a 1950s-1980s hat (yes, contrary to popular belief, there were still felt hats that were made after the 1960s; the question is if they were worn) hat that was probably purchased but then rarely used as hats became unfavorable (they've been "dying out" for a longer time than most people think, however, after WWII, they were worn only with suits and not casualwear; in the 1960s up until the early 1980s, the few men wore hats everyday usually wore them downtown and in the business districts, but the majority of those hats were made in "Sport Coat" fabric, such as tweed, corduroy, and velour, but there were indeed felt hats).

If you post a picture of both, somebody can help you date it.

-Quetzal


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

ank pretty high


Nobleprofessor said:


> Question for the hat experts. I found a new Knox Twenty fedora (I think) with the box. Anyone know much about Knox?


Found as on ebay? Knox hats were a fine make along with Dobbs. A twenty would indicate its quality by Knox's standards, but would rank pretty high. Would need more info to provide an informed opinion as to that particular hat.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

EclecticSr. said:


> ank pretty high
> 
> Found as on ebay? Knox hats were a fine make along with Dobbs. A twenty would indicate its quality by Knox's standards, but would rank pretty high. Would need more info to provide an informed opinion as to that particular hat.


Found at an estate sale. It was still in the plastic in the box.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Quetzal said:


> Whoa, sounds like you've found a vintage hat (I believe that that particular brand has been defunct since the 1970s)! Chances are that you've found a 1950s-1980s hat (yes, contrary to popular belief, there were still felt hats that were made after the 1960s; the question is if they were worn) hat that was probably purchased but then rarely used as hats became unfavorable (they've been "dying out" for a longer time than most people think, however, after WWII, they were worn only with suits and not casualwear; in the 1960s up until the early 1980s, the few men wore hats everyday usually wore them downtown and in the business districts, but the majority of those hats were made in "Sport Coat" fabric, such as tweed, corduroy, and velour, but there were indeed felt hats).
> 
> If you post a picture of both, somebody can help you date it.
> 
> -Quetzal


I was guessing 50's but it is just a guess.

Here are some pictures:

Sorry the pictures aren't better I took them quickly with my phone. There is a little dust on it. That is dust not wear or stains.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

ThatDudeOrion said:


> Right now I have a few different twill flat/ivy caps and a 2.5 inch brim cotton twill safari hat that I bought this summer. I definitely want to get a Panama for next summer, but in the meantime I want to get a fedora in will/fur felt for the fall and winter. Your caribou looks great with the rest of the colors in the outfit you posted, but I wonder if I should go for a gray felt or a brown felt if I'm more likely to wear warmer colors like British khaki hunter green, chocolate brown and the like as it cooler. For dark suits or outfits built around worsted and flannel grays, a gray hat seems to be a no brainer, but do you think it would be versatile enough to look good with chinos and a brownish tweed for example?


Eh, it's a toss up. I feel like gray is a bit more versatile for a first hat, but a brown hat would certainly go with browns/tans/greens. Not to say the gray hat wouldn't go with those things, brown would just go better. I got mine when I was wearing charcoal and navy suits regularly, so it went well with what I was wearing at the time- if you know you're going to wear more earth tones, brown or tan would be more useful for you.

But with that said, I also think you may look into tweed bucket hats or flat caps if you know you're going to be wearing more "country" fabrics. I'm trying to find one myself for when I wear my brown tweeds this winter.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I was guessing 50's but it is just a guess.
> 
> Here are some pictures:
> 
> Sorry the pictures aren't better I took them quickly with my phone. There is a little dust on it. That is dust not wear or stains.


You have found yourself a quality hat . Probably 50s vintage. I don't know what you paid for it but obviously you where willing to pay the price.
The white cord running through the sweatband can be snugged if needed,generally used on better grade hats. Get yourself hat brushes, one for the crown and one for the brim their relatively inexpensive. You found yourself a winner, it's mint. Wear it in good health.


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

orange fury said:


> But with that said, I also think you may look into tweed bucket hats or flat caps if you know you're going to be wearing more "country" fabrics. I'm trying to find one myself for when I wear my brown tweeds this winter.


Be Silver has a good selection. Not sure what price range you're considering but you might take a look.

https://www.bensilver.com/SearchResult.aspx?searchPhrase=caps


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

EclecticSr. said:


> You have found yourself a quality hat . Probably 50s vintage. I don't know what you paid for it but obviously you where willing to pay the price.
> The white cord running through the sweatband can be snugged if needed,generally used on better grade hats. Get yourself hat brushes, one for the crown and one for the brim their relatively inexpensive. You found yourself a winner, it's mint. Wear it in good health.


I might wear a hat like this (I don't know if I'm a hat guy except for a baseball cap on the weekends). But, this is too small for me and the reason I bought this one was to sell it. I thought it looked very nice.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I might wear a hat like this (I don't know if I'm a hat guy except for a baseball cap on the weekends). But, this is too small for me and the reason I bought this one was to sell it. I thought it looked very nice.


Ah, I see. If your looking to flip it on say ebay, there are those who would not hesitate to buy a hat of that quality. I don't know what you paid nor would I suggest a price to offer it at. You can better determine that based on what you did pay for it.
Know that it is mint, seems unworn and of very good quality.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

I may be mistaken, but that little button-looking object near the bow also appears to be a "Wind Trolley", or a cord that would be attached into the coat's lapel on a windy day. I have a very similar-looking hat, but in a size of 6 7/8 (I'm a size 7) that is from about 1971 in brown with a black band, the feather long gone, but somebody pinched the crown backwards; it belonged to my aunt's father-in-law, who served in WWII (I had a wonderful conversation with him about Normandy) and has since passed away; my uncle gave it to me (they were clearing out the house and found it, next to his mother's little pillbox), as I'm the only one who appreciates clothes of any sort in the family (that and he said that my little gray hat reminds me of the Dobbs that he used to wear).

-Quetzal


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I might wear a hat like this (I don't know if I'm a hat guy except for a baseball cap on the weekends). But, this is too small for me and the reason I bought this one was to sell it. I thought it looked very nice.


Im a 7 3/8, coincidentally......


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Quetzal said:


> I may be mistaken, but that little button-looking object near the bow also appears to be a "Wind Trolley", or a cord that would be attached into the coat's lapel on a windy day. I have a very similar-looking hat, but in a size of 6 7/8 (I'm a size 7) that is from about 1971 in brown with a black band, the feather long gone, but somebody pinched the crown backwards; it belonged to my aunt's father-in-law, who served in WWII (I had a wonderful conversation with him about Normandy) and has since passed away; my uncle gave it to me (they were clearing out the house and found it, next to his mother's little pillbox), as I'm the only one who appreciates clothes of any sort in the family (that and he said that my little gray hat reminds me of the Dobbs that he used to wear).
> 
> -Quetzal


I wondered what that was! I was going to bring it to our local hat shop and ask him out that cord. So, what do you do with it when it's not a windy day?


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Quetzal said:


> I may be mistaken, but that little button-looking object near the bow also appears to be a "Wind Trolley", or a cord that would be attached into the coat's lapel on a windy day. I have a very similar-looking hat, but in a size of 6 7/8 (I'm a size 7) that is from about 1971 in brown with a black band, the feather long gone, but somebody pinched the crown backwards; it belonged to my aunt's father-in-law, who served in WWII (I had a wonderful conversation with him about Normandy) and has since passed away; my uncle gave it to me (they were clearing out the house and found it, next to his mother's little pillbox), as I'm the only one who appreciates clothes of any sort in the family (that and he said that my little gray hat reminds me of the Dobbs that he used to wear).
> 
> -Quetzal


My pictures may not have shown it very well, but I THINK this hat might be a trilby. Which someone described as the Fedora's little brother. It has a smaller brim and turns up in the back. Whereas as Fedora has a wider brim hence it can turn down more in the front and back (think Bogart or Indiana Jones). The trilby looks similar but the front brim doesn't turn down as much (think Sinatra).

Am I right?


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I wondered what that was! I was going to bring it to our local hat shop and ask him out that cord. So, what do you do with it when it's not a windy day?


Oh, you quite simply wrap it around the crown, I think (my hat doesn't have one, as it's a "quality" wool hat; yes, I know, as I may potentially grow, and it's not that bad for a starter hat, but not to worry, I already know what hat I'm going to buy and it's specifications when I have the cash). How you wrap it around the crown, you've got me.

-Quetzal


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Howard said:


> You look like Joe Friday, nice outfit.


I get the same comment (from Baby-Boomers, usually) all the time, or something like "Cole Phelps" (from some video game called "L.A. Noire") from my peers, to my displeasure; this reinforces the notion that hats are a historical costume, though I'm sure you didn't intend for the comment to come off that way.

-Quetzal


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> My pictures may not have shown it very well, but I THINK this hat might be a trilby. Which someone described as the Fedora's little brother. It has a smaller brim and turns up in the back. Whereas as Fedora has a wider brim hence it can turn down more in the front and back (think Bogart or Indiana Jones). The trilby looks similar but the front brim doesn't turn down as much (think Sinatra).
> 
> Am I right?


I've always been skeptical about hat terminology, especially with the "Fedora vs. Trilby" issue. Supposedly (perhaps a British member can help), "Trilby" is the British word for a "Fedora", with both describing a soft, felt of rabbit or beaver, hat with a dent of some sort (pinches optional), a snap-brim, and a grosgrain band, or, back when men wore stiff-felt hats (before the Great War), a casual alternative to wear in the city.

The "Trilby as a narrow-brim" concept seems to be a modern thing; I've spoken to many folks who were adults or younger men in the 1940s-1970s, primarily vets (clothes are never the focus of the conversation, rather an intro, leading on to more significant topics), and they simply refer to this style as a "Stingy-Brim" Hat (they rarely even recall the word "Fedora", describing it as a word used to describe hats worn by people like Bogart or gangsters, let along "Trilby"). A WWII vet even said to me (I mentioned his on the Fedora Lounge), addressing my 2" brim "Pork-Pie" hat, "Whoa, I bought a Stingy-Brim Hat just like yours 70 years ago! Now that I see a younger guy wearing one, I may even wear mine, if I still have it, along with those crazy ties that I bought when I came home from Japan (referring to, of course, the "Bold Look" geometric-print or hand-painted ties that can be seen on the Fedora Lounge, but for some reason, never in period movies)! We sure thought that we looked sharp!" at an American Legion-sponsored event.

If the word "Trilby" really does describe a narrower-brimmed "Fedora" (which I kind of doubt), then you've certainly got a "Trilby"; either way, that's still a great find (I'm jealous; if only I could find any sort of hat with the box at flea markets or thrift stores). I'll continue to just say "hat", as they should be called (every independent feature of hats are what make them unique, regardless of name).

-Quetzal


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> My pictures may not have shown it very well, but I THINK this hat might be a trilby. Which someone described as the Fedora's little brother. It has a smaller brim and turns up in the back. Whereas as Fedora has a wider brim hence it can turn down more in the front and back (think Bogart or Indiana Jones). The trilby looks similar but the front brim doesn't turn down as much (think Sinatra).
> 
> Am I right?[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

EclecticSr. said:


> Nobleprofessor said:
> 
> 
> > My pictures may not have shown it very well, but I THINK this hat might be a trilby. Which someone described as the Fedora's little brother. It has a smaller brim and turns up in the back. Whereas as Fedora has a wider brim hence it can turn down more in the front and back (think Bogart or Indiana Jones). The trilby looks similar but the front brim doesn't turn down as much (think Sinatra).
> ...


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> EclecticSr. said:
> 
> 
> > ok, so it sounds like you and Quetzal pretty much agree it's a hat with a smaller brim than a fedora. I'm thinking about taking it to our local hat shop and having thrm check it out. I think it is beaver as many of these hats were. If I'm going to sell it, I should probably confirm everything.
> ...


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm beginning to think that if this hat were in a medium gray (feather removed; feathers, though existent earlier, were more common in 1960s and 1970s hats), then it would be the answer to my initial post.

I'm also beginning to think that this thread, like most of mine for some reason, has wandered off into a completely different direction...

-Quetzal


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Quetzal said:


> I'm beginning to think that if this hat were in a medium gray (feather removed; feathers, though existent earlier, were more common in 1960s and 1970s hats), then it would be the answer to my initial post.
> 
> I'm also beginning to think that this thread, like most of mine for some reason, has wandered off into a completely different direction...
> 
> -Quetzal


i think you are right it fits your query other than the color. Maybe I should list it as trad.


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

Am I doing this right?

Rainy day grocery shopping

2.5 inch brim canvas safari hat
barn coat
flannel check shirt


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^I think you have nailed it TDO. Though I would replace the canvas Safari hat with my poplin Tilley L5...it wears just a bit lighter and cooler on the head, I suspect? Besides, I don't have a Safari hat!


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

I thought that a Safari Hat was white (can be colored with tea), made of pith, and generally soaked in water overnight?

-Quetzal


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Looks good, Orion. And I like your new clean-shaven look.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

I bought this hat in March, looking very sad:



I hated the band, so I removed it. I reshaped it by steaming it, and using two bowls, a ladle, an ovoid casserole, and a pyrex measuring cup as forms. Just this afternoon, I finally made a new band, and it will, at last, make its debut today:


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

StylePurgatory said:


> I bought this hat in March, looking very sad:
> 
> I hated the band, so I removed it. I reshaped it by steaming it, and using two bowls, a ladle, an ovoid casserole, and a pyrex measuring cup as forms. Just this afternoon, I finally made a new band, and it will, at last, make its debut today:


Does that say 3.99 or $399 dollars?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Howard said:


> Does that say 3.99 or $399 dollars?


$3.99


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Huh, this guy almost dressed just like me (excluding the always neat patch pockets), hat and all.

-Quetzal


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