# Allen Edmonds: Styles vs. Lasts



## steveincharlotte

Thanks to *JLibourel *and *well-kept* for their data. Here's my current list, and I'm now going to forget this topic for awhile. But if anyone can add to it, let me know and I'll repost in the fullness of time. -steve

*AE Model** - Last*
Andrew - 7
Ashland - 
Ashton - 8(old)
Astor - 7
Auburn - 7
Beaumont - 
Becker - 2
Bedford - 
Belgium - 4
Belmont - 1
Benton - 8
Bergland - 1
Berkley - 4
Berwick - 
Birmingham - 0
Biscayne - 1
Bradenton - 
Bradley - 1
Brentwood - 3
Breton - 1
Bridgeton - 9
Bristol - 8
Broadstreet - 3
Brookwood - 7
Burton - 2
Byron - 4
Cambridge - 
Canfield - 1
Cannondale - 7
Canton - 1
Capri - 1
Chester - 3
Clifton - 8
Cody - 9
Colton - 0
Concord - 7
Copley - 8
Cortland - 4
Dalton - 
Danbury - 5
Dellwood - 4
Delray - 8
Denton - 2
Dickson - 4
Dryden - 2
Duke - 9
Dundee - 
Durham - 4
Ellington - 7
Fairfax - 5
Fairgate - 1
Fairmont - 
Foley - 7
Fulton - 1
Garner - 5
Glasgow - 4
Glenfield - 7
Grayson - 7
Halsted - 
Hampstead - 8
Hancock - 4
Harrison - 0
Hastings - 5
Hersey - 0
Hillcrest - 4
Hillsboro - 1 or 4
Hinsdale - 4
Holbrook - 8
Holt - 2
Howard - 
Joplin - 2
Kendall - 8
Kennet - 4
Kingsley - 0
Kirkwood - 1
Lauderdale - 4
Leeds - 1
Lexington - 1
Leyland - 8
Linden - 
Lisbon II - 
Lloyd - 
Logan - 1
MacNeil - 7
Manchester - 
Mapleton - 4
Marlow - 7
Maxfield - 
McAllister - 
McLain - 8
Meridian - 8
Milford - 2
Mora - 8
Moselle - 6
Nassau - 
Newport - 9
Niles - 8
Norse - 1
Orlean - 1
Park Avenue - 5
Polo - 
Randolph - 9
Richmond - 7
Ritz - 4
Sanford - 7
Saratoga - 2¢3
Saxon - 2
Seneca - 5
Shelton - 1
Sheridan - 7
Slayton - 4
Spencer - 4
Stanford - 1
Steen - 8
Stockbridge - 4
Strand - 5
Stratton - 7
Stuart - 1
Sutton - 
Taunton - 8
Thayer - 8
Townley - 
Troy - 4
Viking II - 6
Wakefield - 
Walton - 3
Wayland - 1
Westgate - 8
Wilbert - 1
Wingham - 4
York - 4


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## bigCat

Lloyd - 7.


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## pcunite

Fremont - 4


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## JLibourel

Thank you for this informative public service, Steve. I thought I was pretty hep to the recent A-E styles, but there are a lot there I have never heard of!


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## wvuguy

Linden #4


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## trolperft

Cornell (discontinued model)- 1


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## nomis

Ashland 4, Berwick 7, Bradenton has been on both the 4 and the 7, Cambridge 5, Dalton 7, Dundee 1, Fairmont old 8 last, Halstead 3, McCallister 5, Polo 1, Townley 7


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## spinlps

I have a pair of Leeds on the old #8 last.


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## medwards

Thank you, all. I have added this thread to the compendium of shoe fit and sizing discussions.


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## bigCat

Auburn - for European market - #1 last.


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## sia

Excellent resource...thank you!


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## Mark from Plano

The listing above has the Concord on a 7 last. However, the pair that I'm wearing today has a style #5034. Wouldn't this indicate a #4 last? I purchased these fairly recently on closeout from STP.


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## LonelyAreTheBrave

*ALLEN EDMONDS CONCORD*



Mark from Plano said:


> The listing above has the Concord on a 7 last. However, the pair that I'm wearing today has a style #5034. Wouldn't this indicate a #4 last? I purchased these fairly recently on closeout from STP.


Mark from Plano, is this the model you are refering to? Looks to me like it is on the AE #4 last. The toe shape looks similar to the Hillcrest, Byron, Hancock, and other models on the #4 last. My guess is that the "Concord" name has been recycled and there once was a model on the #7 last. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


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## bigCat

LonelyAreTheBrave said:


> Mark from Plano, is this the model you are refering to? Looks to me like it is on the AE #4 last. The toe shape looks similar to the Hillcrest, Byron, Hancock, and other models on the #4 last. My guess is that the "Concord" name has been recycled and there once was a model on the #7 last. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


Monk strap bicycle toe Concord is on #4. Recycling is rare but possible.


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## Mark from Plano

LonelyAreTheBrave said:


> Mark from Plano, is this the model you are refering to? Looks to me like it is on the AE #4 last. The toe shape looks similar to the Hillcrest, Byron, Hancock, and other models on the #4 last. My guess is that the "Concord" name has been recycled and there once was a model on the #7 last. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.


That's the one. Just trying to keep this thread fresh by trying to update any changes/errors as they are noted. There are a few models apparently that were made on both the #7 and #4 lasts since they are similar but for the squarer toe on the #4. I suspect that this is the case with this one. If someone is maintaining an accurate list in or updating this one in the future, perhaps it would be more accurate to state 4 & 7, rather than just 7.


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## RWLewis2nd

For those interested - This is a list that I put together for personal use, mainly using Steve's original list and combining other lists that I had into it. I have no idea how accurate the list actually is, especially for those styles showing multiple lasts. The list is NOT Wisconsin made specific, and includes all AE styles that I had lists of. "Italian" is the Italian last.

Ancona Italian
Andrew 7
Ashland 4
Ashton 8 (old)
Astor 7
Auburn 1 and 7
Austin 1
Barbados Italian
Beaumont ?
Becker 2
Bedford ?
Belgium 4 
Belmont 1
Bennington 0 and 5
Benton 8
Bergamo 0 Italian
Bergland 1
Berkley 4
Berwick 7
Birmingham 0
Biscayne 1
Bradenton 4 and 7
Bradley 1
Brentwood 3 Earlier on own last
Breton 1
Bridgeton 9
Bristol 8
Broadstreet 3
Brookwood 7
Bruzzano 1 Italian
Burton 2
Byron 4
Cambridge 5
Canelli 0 and 4
Canfield 1
Canondale 7 
Canton 1
Capri 1
Castine 1, 2 and 5
Chester 3
Clifton 8
Cody 9
Cole 6 
Colebrook 0 and 3
Colton 0
Concord 4 and 7
Conway 1, 4 and 7
Copley 8
Cornell 1
Cortland 4
Dalton 7
Danbury 5
Dellwood 4
Delray 8
Denton 2
Dickson 4
Dover 1 and 6
Dryden 2
Duke 9
Dundee 1
Durham 4 
Eastport 2, 4 and 9
Ellington 7
Fairfax 5
Fairgate 1 
Fairmont 8 (old)
Foley 7 
Freemont 4
Fulton 1
Garner 5 Earlier on own last
Glasgow 4
Glenfield 7
Granby 0 and 3
Grayson 7
Hale 8
Halsted 3 
Hampstead 8
Hancock 4
Hanover 0, 5 and 7
Harrison 0
Hastings 5
Hersey 0 
Hillcrest 4
Hillsboro 1 or 4
Hinsdale 4
Holbrook 8
Holt 2
Holton 1 and 5
Howard ?
Hyde 1, 3 and 7 
Joplin 2
Keene 1, 6 and 9
Kendall 8
Kennet 4 and 7
Kingsley 0
Kirkwood 1
Lambert 8
Lauderdale 4
Layland 6
Leeds 1 and 8 (old)
Lexington 1 
Leyland 8
Linden 4
Lisbon II ?
Lloyd 7
Logan 1
Lugano 0 Italian 
MacNeil 7
Manchester 7
Mapleton 4
Marlow 7
Maxfield 1, 2, 6 and 7
McAllister 5
McLain 8
Merano 1 and 6
Meridian 8
Milano Italian 
Milford 2
Monterey 3
Mora 8
Moselle 6
Muldoon 1 and 6 
Nashua 0
Nassau ?
Newport 9
Niles 8
Norse 1
Norwalk 1, 6 and 7
Orlean 1
Park Avenue 5
Parkland 6
Perry 2
Pescara Italian
Polo 1
Ramsey 8 
Randolph 9
Rapallo Italian
Richmond 7
Rimini Italian
Ritz 4
Rockland 6
Roma Italian
Sanford 7
Saratoga 3 Earlier version on 2 
Saxon 2
Seneca 5 
Shelton 1
Sheridan 4
Siena Italian
Slayton 4 
Spencer 4
Stanford 1
Steen 8 
Stockbridge 4
Stowe 0 and 7
Strand 5
Stratton 7
Stuart 1
Sutton ?
Taunton 8 
Thayer 8 
Townley 7
Troy 4
Urbino 0, 2 and 6
Valletta Italian
Viking II 6
Wakefield ?
Walden 0 and 7
Walton 3
Warren 2
Waterbury 6
Wayland 1
Westgate 8
Westport 4
Wilbert 1
Wingham 4
Winthrop 1, 2 and 5
Woodstock ? (Not Wisconsin made)
York 4


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## Brideshead

I have a pair of AE Kenwood beefroll loafers in dark brown grain (see pic). On the box it says '44043 8.5 E Kenwood Dk Brn Grn INTL'


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## trolperft

Harwood-3, Lotus-1


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## Jared

*Bedford - 3?*

Got a model number for a pair of Bedfords on eBay, the last digit was 3.


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## Renty

The pair of Allen Edmonds that fits me best is marked "5705 COMB. 4453"

I recently ordered a new pair of Hillcrest (#4 last) shoes from the ebay store and the heel slippage I get in the same is insane. Can anyone tell me what the comb last designation means?

I'm assuming it's easier to find shoes on either the 5 last or the 3 last rather than a combination but I'm not sure which part of the numbering refers to the heel sizing. Thanks in advance.


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## JLibourel

Renty said:


> The pair of Allen Edmonds that fits me best is marked "5705 COMB. 4453"
> 
> I recently ordered a new pair of Hillcrest (#4 last) shoes from the ebay store and the heel slippage I get in the same is insane. Can anyone tell me what the comb last designation means?
> 
> I'm assuming it's easier to find shoes on either the 5 last or the 3 last rather than a combination but I'm not sure which part of the numbering refers to the heel sizing. Thanks in advance.


What is the style designation on your good-fitting A-Es. I have never heard of A-E combining the dimensions of two lasts, as you imply. In any event, combining the #5, A-E's narrowest last, with the #3, the widest, would seem especially odd.

Given that your Hillcrests have a double sole, the heel slippage problem may abate with wear. I had a heel slippage problem with one pair of Bradleys that don't have a double sole but do have a stout welt, but it seems to have corrected itself.


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## trolperft

Renty said:


> The pair of Allen Edmonds that fits me best is marked "5705 COMB. 4453"
> 
> I recently ordered a new pair of Hillcrest (#4 last) shoes from the ebay store and the heel slippage I get in the same is insane. Can anyone tell me what the comb last designation means?
> 
> I'm assuming it's easier to find shoes on either the 5 last or the 3 last rather than a combination but I'm not sure which part of the numbering refers to the heel sizing. Thanks in advance.


(5705 COMB. 4453) doesn't means that the last is the combination of #5 last and # 3 last. Your park avenue is on #5 last. I found that configuration of markings in my very old(bought 20 years ago)AE macneil. I also have another pair of Macneil, which I bought recently. The fit is completely the same. So I believe that 4453 portion has no relation to the last. The reason why park avenue fits you most is simple:because It's the narrowest last.
Combination last just means that heel width is 2 width narrower than ball width.


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## Renty

Thanks for the help. Hopefully this will allow me to get a better fit on my next purchase.


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## ComboOrgan

Does anyone know what last is used for the Winslow?


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## trolperft

ComboOrgan said:


> Does anyone know what last is used for the Winslow?


It's on #1 last.
https://www.m-plus-mainz.de/?area=produkte&schuh=winslow


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## ComboOrgan

That looks like a different shoe in the picture. Mine is a kiltie wingtip loafer



trolperft said:


> It's on #1 last.
> https://www.m-plus-mainz.de/?area=produkte&schuh=winslow


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## jar2574

Thanks for this informative thread. It helps a lot when looking at AE's website or at ebay.


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## steveincharlotte

Well, it's been 7 months since I posted this, so here it is again. The list was started to help me sort out eBay listings. When I started the list, I didn't include AE casual styles or Italian. I've added everyone's additions or corrections since January, and since I've included those from RWLewis2nd's list, I suspect this now includes casual styles. But I have still avoided Italians.

RWLewis2nd didn't know whether his entries were accurate, particularly those with multiple lasts, so that means I don't known either. For the multiple lasts, an arrow (¢) shows the order in which they were made, whereas commas indicate that the order is unknown. If you have one of the shoes for which a multiple last is shown, email me offline with your number and I will bold it in my list to indicate that at least one has been seen.

Comments, corrections, and additions are encouraged.

*AE Model** - Last*
Andrew - 7
Ashland - 4 
Ashton - old 8
Astor - 7
Auburn - 7,1(Euro)
Beaumont - ?
Becker - 2
Bedford - 3
Belgium - 4
Belmont  - 1
Bennington - 0,5
Benton - 8
Bergland - 1
Berkley - 4
Berwick - 7
Birmingham - 0
Biscayne - 1
Boulevard - 5
Bradenton - 4,7
Bradley - 1
Brentwood - 3
Breton - 1
Bridgeton - 9
Bristol - 8
Broadstreet - 3
Brookwood - 7
Burton - 2
Byron - 4
Cambridge - 5 
Canelli - 0,4
Canfield - 1
Cannondale - 7
Canton - 1
Capri - 1
Castine - 1,2,5
Chester - 3
Clifton - 8
Cody - 9
Cole - 6
Colebrook - 0,3
Colton - 0
Concord - 7¢4
Conway - 1,4,7
Copley - 8
Cornell - 1
Cortland - 4
Dalton - 7
Danbury - 5
Dellwood - 4
Delray - 8
Denton - 2
Dickson - 4
Dover - 1,6
Dryden - 2
Duke - 9
Dundee - 1
Durham - 4
Eastport - 2,4,9
Ellington - 7
Fairfax - 5
Fairgate - 1
Fairmont - old 8
Foley - 7
Fremont - 4
Fulton - 1
Garner - 5
Glasgow - 4
Glenfield - 7
Granby - 0,3
Grayson - 7
Hale - 8
Halsted - 3
Hampstead - 8
Hancock - 4
Hanover - 0,5,7
Harrison - 0
Harwood - 3
Hastings - 5
Hersey - 0
Hillcrest - 4
Hillsboro - 1 or 4 ?
Hinsdale - 4
Holbrook - 8
Holt - 2
Holton - 1,5
Howard - ?
Hyde - 1,3,7
Joplin - 2
Keene - 1,6,9
Kendall - 8
Kennet - 4,7
Kingsley - 0
Kirkwood - 1
Lambert - 8
Lauderdale - 4
Layland - 6
Leeds - old 8¢1
Lexington - 1
Leyland - 6
Linden - 4
Lisbon II - ?
Lloyd - 7
Logan - 1
Lotus - 1
MacNeil - 7
Manchester - 7 
Mapleton - 4
Marlow - 7
Maxfield - 1,2,6,7
McAllister - 5 
McLain - 8
Merano - 1,6
Meridian - 8
Milford - 2
Mora - 8
Moselle - 6
Muldoon - 1,6
Nashua - 0
Nassau - ?
Newport - 9
Niles - 8
Norse - 1
Norwalk - 1,6,7
Orlean - 1
Owen - 4
Park Avenue - 5
Parkland - 6
Perry - 2
Polo - 1
Ramsey - 8
Randolph - 9
Richmond - 7
Ritz - 4
Rockland - 6
Sanford - 7
Saratoga - 2¢3
Saxon - 2
Seneca - 5
Shelton - 1
Sheridan - 7
Slayton - 4
Spencer - 4
Stanford - 1
Steen - 8
Stockbridge - 4
Stowe - 0,7
Strand - 5
Stratton - 7
Stuart - 1
Sutton - ?
Taunton - 8
Thayer - 8
Townley - 7
Troy - 4
Urbino - 0,2,6
Viking II - 6
Wakefield - ?
Waldon - 0,7
Walton - 3
Warren - 2
Waterbury - 6
Wayland - 1
Westgate - 8
Westport - 4
Wilbert - 1
Wingham - 4
Winslow - 1
Winthrop - 1,2,5
York - 4


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## DunninLA

I think some names used for models have been re-used.

I called AE customer service to day to inquire about the Belmont... The lady asked if it was the early 90's Belmont or the early 2000's Belmont. I described it as a whole cut black balmoral completely plain except for an unusual hand stitching around the perimeter of the lace holes about 2/3 of an inch outside the hoels. She said that is the early 2000's Belmont and that it is on the #1 last.

Problem is the model number 6017, which obviously ends in a 7.

Is the fourth digit ALWAYS the last number?


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## DunninLA

Here's something interesting. I'm sure my confusion is compounded by the fact that I have no idea how shoes are actually made, or the relationship between sole, heel and shoe.

But here is a tale of two AE Cap Toe Balmorals, both 10 D on the #5 Last, which I recently purchased on ebay:

Name: Park Avenue captoe, black
Picture: 
Age: Probably under 5 yrs. old
Length: 12.5"
Thickness of sole: Medium
Sole width at ball of foot, widest point: 4 1/4"
Sole at mid-arch, narrowest point: 2 7/8"
Sole rise at heel, arch side: almost flat, maybe 1/16"
Sole edge bevel: none, veritical
Width of heel, widest point: 3.37"
Rear of shoe overhand over heal: None
Fit on my foot: Loose.

Name: unknown Full Brogued Captoe, dark brown/red
Picture: 
Age: probably 10+ yrs. old
Length: 12.4"
Thickness of sole: Medium/Thick
Sole width at ball of foot, widest point: 4 3/8"
Sole width at mid-arch, narrowest point: 2 5/8"
Sole rise at heel, arch side: nice arch support, maybe 3/16" rise
Sole edge bevel: wider at bottom, narrow at welting point
Width of heel, widest point: 3 1/8"
Rear of shoe overhand over heal: 3/16"
Fit on my foot: Just right.

So, here we have two cap toe balmorals in 10D, both on the #5 last, that are so different they appear to be from different shoemakers. One fits perfectly, one feels about a half size too large.

So my question is, if the last doesn't seem to correlate to fit, heel size, sole shape, what difference does it make which last it is?


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## trolperft

DunninLA said:


> So my question is, if the last doesn't seem to correlate to fit, heel size, sole shape, what difference does it make which last it is?


I think that the size marked inside one of them are not correct and 
in fact these shoes are in different size. 
I had two pairs of the same shoes which have the same length and width.
Only difference is the size. Obviously when the shoemaker marked the size,
they made a mistake.

The relation between last and fit should be consistant.


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## steveincharlotte

trolperft said:


> The relation between last and fit should be consistant.


I wonder. I returned a pair of 10C Park Avenue's to AE that were painfully tight -- truly painful. I have 3 other 10C Park Avenue's that are quite comfortable. AE measured them, said they were correctly sized, and wanted to send me a 10D. I insisted that the shoe was mis-sized and they reluctantly sent me another 10C, which fit perfectly. Go figure.


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## trolperft

steveincharlotte said:


> I wonder. I returned a pair of 10C Park Avenue's to AE that were painfully tight -- truly painful. I have 3 other 10C Park Avenue's that are quite comfortable. AE measured them, said they were correctly sized, and wanted to send me a 10D. I insisted that the shoe was mis-sized and they reluctantly sent me another 10C, which fit perfectly. Go figure.


Is lasting usually done by hand, not machine? If so, accidental error might happen during that process.


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## jar2574

Anyone know which last the Soho is on?


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## wgiceman

jar2574 said:


> Anyone know which last the Soho is on?


The Soho is on the new 0 last.


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## jar2574

wgiceman said:


> The Soho is on the new 0 last.


Thanks. Much appreciated.


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## Doctor Damage

AE lasts (screenshot from the 1986 catalogue).


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## gman-17

Doc,

Thanks as always - you put a lot of effort in to providing some of the most valuable information on the site. Here is what confuses me:









The 4 last is one of the widest or fullest fitting lasts. Guys on this site will tell you that they love that last because it accomodates the wider/ fuller foot. Interestingly, if you read this chart that would not appear to be the case, particularly comparing the 4 and 5 lasts. The 5 is viewed by most to have less width but compares: 11 7/16 and 91/16 to 11 3/8 to 9. However, my own empirical data suggests that the belief that the 4 is fuller is true. The Hinsdale which was built on the 4 did not fit me well because it was too full. So obviously there is more to this chart than the simple numerical data. Can anyone enlighten me?


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## ykurtz

Imagine a motorcycle helmet: two guys have 25" circumference heads, but one is spherical and the other is more oblong. Since most helmets are oblong, it's likely that the oblong guy will find a helmet to fit his head easier than the spherical guy, given the volumetrics/inflexibility involved, and even though they have identical circumferences. 

I think girth and length alone are not sufficient to describe a last. You would need to provide 'orthogonal slices' across the shoe at key points to get a better sense of each last. 

I think this is similar to why two suit jackets with a 44" measured chest (flat) will fit differently, given other things such as armhole height, etc.


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## gman-17

ykurtz said:


> Imagine a motorcycle helmet: two guys have 25" circumference heads, but one is spherical and the other is more oblong. Since most helmets are oblong, it's likely that the oblong guy will find a helmet to fit his head easier than the spherical guy, given the volumetrics/inflexibility involved, and even though they have identical circumferences.
> 
> I think girth and length alone are not sufficient to describe a last. You would need to provide 'orthogonal slices' across the shoe at key points to get a better sense of each last.
> 
> I think this is similar to why two suit jackets with a 44" measured chest (flat) will fit differently, given other things such as armhole height, etc.


Y,

I like the Helmet analogy--guess this is why some riders wear Shoei and others Arai.


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## NoVaguy

ykurtz said:


> Imagine a motorcycle helmet: two guys have 25" circumference heads, but one is spherical and the other is more oblong. Since most helmets are oblong, it's likely that the oblong guy will find a helmet to fit his head easier than the spherical guy, given the volumetrics/inflexibility involved, and even though they have identical circumferences.
> 
> I think girth and length alone are not sufficient to describe a last. You would need to provide 'orthogonal slices' across the shoe at key points to get a better sense of each last.
> 
> I think this is similar to why two suit jackets with a 44" measured chest (flat) will fit differently, given other things such as armhole height, etc.


True, but Motorcycle helmets are made of hard, inflexible material on the outside, limiting the range of shapes which can fit the volume, and shoes are made of leather, which is flexible, and thus has a more expanded set of shapes which can fit the volume.

But obviously, a good last that matches one's foot is desirable.


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## sowilson

gman-17 said:


> Y,
> 
> I like the Helmet analogy--guess this is why some riders wear Shoei and others Arai.


The helmet shapes in both Arai and Shoei vary between model lines within the same manufacturer. I take an XXL or XXXL helmet and oblong vs spherical is my major concern. I usually buy Arai but only two of their models have any chance of fitting me and custom helmets are rather pricey.


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## Doctor Damage

gman-17 said:


> Doc,
> 
> Thanks as always - you put a lot of effort in to providing some of the most valuable information on the site.


It only took about 2 minutes, actually. I strongly encourage every AE fan here to download those catalogs and keep a digital copy for posterity. Who knows if they won't be available at some point?


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## Doctor Damage

Here is the range of leathers that AE offered in 1988.

https://img268.imageshack.us/i/aeleathers.jpg/


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## Doctor Damage

AE lasts (from 1999 catalogue), plus info on "Custom Services".

https://img705.imageshack.us/i/aelasts.jpg/


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## Fishbowl

I have a new pair of AE Westchester Shell Cordovans (new for 2010) with a last digit of 7


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## andy b.

*Lloyd styles*

Greetings all!! I didn't see an "Introductions" forum, so I guess this is as good a place as any to make a first post. 

I recently picked up a used pair of Allen Edmonds shoes. I am new to the AE world (and fine dress shoes in general, but that is not the topic of this thread). I downloaded all of the old AE catalogs from the issuu site and was trying to find the Lloyd model in them. In the 1965 catalog there is a Lloyd, but it is a moccasin toe on the #3 last (if my understanding of AE using the final number in the model as the last #). The pair of Lloyds I have in my possession are certainly not a moc toe. They are a pair of balmoral wingtips similar to the pairs posted in the "What Footwear Are You Wearing Today" thread by Cardinals5 and WingtipTom. My shoes have Lloyd printed inside of them, and I think the model # is 0607, if my reading of the numbers inside the shoe are correct.

So is there a certain period of time that AE would wait to re-use a name, or should I not go by catalogs older than 20 years ago, or some other rule to avoid confusing different models with the same name? How long has AE been making the Lloyd model in this style? I didn't see it in a newer catalog, but I may have overlooked one or two.

I also have a general question on AE last sizes. I admit to being as confused over the girth measurements as many of the other posters. Is there a sort of relative sizing chart to compare lasts, or does anyone have a large enough collection to list what size and last seem to fit similar to each other? I live in a relative shoe desert and any place that may happen to have an AE shoe or two on display, certainly won't have all of them and they never have any in a C width. I am basically forced to order shoes over the Internet (or have the local JAB order them), and it is difficult without knowing how each last might fit. I am looking for a comment like "well a 9.5C in the #7 last fits me like a 10B in the #5 last" or a description along those lines. I know such descriptions are subjective, but at least it gives me something to go on other then length and girth measurements. Even including the width of the ball of the foot where the girth is measured would help.

Thank you for any replies. This site is a great resource to a newbie such as myself!!

Andy B.


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## zblaesi

Anyone know what last the Everett is?


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## caravan70

Addition to lists: The Fifth Avenue, appropriately enough, was a 5 last.

Thanks to all for the great information!


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## 1400pennave

Greenwich - 0


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## dwebber18

Anyone know the last for the St. George jodphur boots they used to make?


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## cn_habs

Can someone explain to me what the term "last" implies to this noob? 

I wear 9.5D in PAs so what size should I get for 
1) Clifton
2) Strand


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## Olifter

cn_habs said:


> Can someone explain to me what the term "last" implies to this noob?
> 
> I wear 9.5D in PAs so what size should I get for
> 1) Clifton
> 2) Strand


Here you go:

The Park Avenue and the Strand are built on the same last, not sure about the Clifton.


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## zzdocxx

I think this thread would be good on a "sticky" if it isn't already.


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## cn_habs

Which last is the Flatiron on?


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## immanuelrx

cn_habs said:


> Which last is the Flatiron on?


If you go onto the Allen Edmonds website, every shoe has the last listed. There is also a description of all their lasts on their website as well.


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## David00

cn_habs said:


> Which last is the Flatiron on?


Flatiron derby is on the 333 last, as is the Harrison and Rutledge. They run a bit longer and wider compared to the Park Avenue, I wear a 9E in the PA's or "65" last, but wear a 9D on the "333" last (i.e., Rutledge and Harrison) comfortably. I prefer this last over the '65' so far, but I own the two models (Harrison and Rutledge) in the independence line which is a different leather also .. so not sure about the flatiron, but I have been looking at them.

Here's the link on the last description: (clicking on the last will do a last search on the website)

There is another link that lists the popular models with the last, but cannot seem to find it at the moment...


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## cn_habs

David00 said:


> Flatiron derby is on the 333 last, as is the Harrison and Rutledge. They run a bit longer and wider compared to the Park Avenue, I wear a 9E in the PA's or "65" last, but wear a 9D on the "333" last (i.e., Rutledge and Harrison) comfortably. I prefer this last over the '65' so far, but I own the two models (Harrison and Rutledge) in the independence line which is a different leather also .. so not sure about the flatiron, but I have been looking at them.
> 
> Here's the link on the last description: (clicking on the last will do a last search on the website)
> 
> There is another link that lists the popular models with the last, but cannot seem to find it at the moment...


I thought PA's 5 last (65) in the longest last? Is it because Flatiron's 3 last feels longer?


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## Piqué

cn_habs said:


> I thought PA's 5 last (65) in the longest last? Is it because Flatiron's 3 last feels longer?


Allen Edmonds likes to refer to their 5(65) last as their narrowest. I've always been perplexed by that as I find their 5 last shoes to be the shortest and chunkiest they make. All of my 2, 3, and 8 last shoes from them seem longer and sleeker than their 5s. Maybe it's an optical illusion or something, as I assume they know what they're talking about. I agree with David, however, that I find my 3-last Harrisons and Rutledges to be longer than my 5 last shoes, although I don't find them to be wider but, rather, narrower (in a good way). Perhaps it's just that the toe box tapers more.


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## David00




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## David00

Both of those are 9D ... think its the toe box that is wider which fits my foot shape better .. guess the point is, is that a width may be different, so one should try them on


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## Piqué

David00 said:


>


Exactly, the left (Rutledge, 3 last) is clearly longer and slimmer to my eye.


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## filbert_turtle

What is this information useful for?


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## Piqué

filbert_turtle said:


> What is this information useful for?


Windsurfing...


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## immanuelrx

filbert_turtle said:


> What is this information useful for?


Lasts are a form that the leather is shaped around to give the shoe a specific fit. It is useful when you find a last that fits your foot well. Once you know what type of last fits your foot, you know what shoes you can buy, especially online without trying them beforehand. But yes, as Piqué stated, it is very beneficial regarding windsurfing.


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## Piqué

immanuelrx said:


> But yes, as Piqué stated, it is very beneficial regarding windsurfing.


:thumbs-up:


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## Piqué

Here's another comparison for you:








L to R (all size 10D): Vernon (8 last), Strawfut (5 last), Rutledge (3 last)


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## filbert_turtle

Ooooh, clever. Size matters also, I assume? Also, if you can get a set of these, I imagine its ideal for polishing.


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## Piqué

filbert_turtle said:


> Ooooh, clever. Size matters also, I assume? Also, if you can get a set of these, I imagine its ideal for polishing.


Is there some particular reason you feel the need to troll this thread? Can we get back to helping those who have questions, or does your ego need us to notice you some more?


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## barneco

cn_habs said:


> Can someone explain to me what the term "last" implies to this noob?
> 
> I wear 9.5D in PAs so what size should I get for
> 1) Clifton
> 2) Strand


The last is the mold around which the leather uppers are built/shaped. Allen Edmonds offers a wide variety because there is a large variation in foot shapes. Also each last tends to have a distinctive visual as well.

I have both the Strand and the Clifton. I'm a solid 11D in the strand, which is on the 5 last. This is my AE sweet spot. 2 strands, McAllisters, and my Redan golf shoes(all on the 5) fit perfectly. My Cliftons, which are on the 8 last, are longer and slightly. I need an extra insole and tongue pad for a perfect fit. In hindsight, I probably would have been better off with a snug 10.5E on the 8 last. Also, visually, I find the Cliftons just look a little longer than I prefer, so I probably won't be purchasing any more of that particular last.


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