# Saddle Shoes



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I find myself increaingly drawn towards saddle shoes, specifically the Loake Asquith (pictured below).

It is a shoe which I have never noticed on a man in England and therefor has potential to be somewhat idiosyncratic. However I can really imagine this style working well with moleskins trousers, tatersall shirt and tweed jacket. Am I deluding myself?

Anyone else like saddle shoes? And if so, what would you wear them with?


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

I have not noticed this style being worn either. Inappropriate for office-wear, but somehow rather dressy for most other occasions, I'm not sure when I would wear such shoes. I dislike suede/leather combinations, in fact any variations of material or texture on the shoe, but many others will disagree with this. They remind me of bowling shoes somehow.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Shaver said:


> I find myself increaingly drawn towards saddle shoes, specifically the Loake Asquith (pictured below).
> 
> It is a shoe which I have never noticed on a man in England and therefor has potential to be somewhat idiosyncratic. However I can really imagine this style working well with moleskins trousers, tatersall shirt and tweed jacket. Am I deluding myself?
> 
> Anyone else like saddle shoes? And if so, what would you wear them with?


I should think it would require wearing something more American, no?

Switch the shirt for ocbd and the trousers for slacks? Needlepoint belt?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> I should think it would require wearing something more American, no?
> 
> Switch the shirt for ocbd and the trousers for slacks? Needlepoint belt?


It will be a cold day in Hell before I ever wear a needle point belt! :icon_pale:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Shaver said:


> It will be a cold day in Hell before I ever wear a needle point belt! :icon_pale:


Ill lend you mine:


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Shaver said:


> It will be a cold day in Hell before I ever wear a needle point belt! :icon_pale:


You realise this is grounds for banishment from the Trad Forum!:biggrin2:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Balfour said:


> You realise this is grounds for banishment from the Trad Forum!:biggrin2:


I'm not sure how much pull my pink flamingos'll get me here either


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

^^That is definitely NOT a needlepoint belt.

As for saddle shoes, they're quite casual. Maybe a notch below PTBs due to the saddle and brogueing. I'd start with something a bit more reserved, like a burgundy/black:








...or a brown/tan:








If you want something a bit less casual, a shoe without a contrasting saddle can look quite elegant IMO:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

hardline_42 said:


> ^^That is definitely NOT a needlepoint belt.
> 
> As for saddle shoes, they're quite casual. Maybe a notch below PTBs due to the saddle and brogueing. I'd start with something a bit more reserved, like a burgundy/black:
> 
> ...


No, but close enough, I felt...


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

I'm still kicking myself for not pulling the trigger on a nice pair of AE Sheltons on EBay recently. They needed a little TLC but they really reminded me of my college years.


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## swb120 (Aug 9, 2005)

Bjorn said:


> Ill lend you mine:


That belt is fantastic. Where did you get it, if I may ask?


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Shaver said:


> I find myself increaingly drawn towards saddle shoes, specifically the Loake Asquith (pictured below).
> 
> It is a shoe which I have never noticed on a man in England and therefor has potential to be somewhat idiosyncratic. However I can really imagine this style working well with moleskins trousers, tatersall shirt and tweed jacket. Am I deluding myself?
> 
> Anyone else like saddle shoes? And if so, what would you wear them with?


Beautiful shoes. I have a 25-year old pair of saddle shoes much like these from LL Bean. My pair has a red rubber sole. With a leather sole and higher quality materials for the upper, your pair is nicer and more formal.

When I was in college, I would wear my shoes without socks and with a pair of baggy khaki shorts. I thought they looked fabuous. Obviously, I cannot get away with that look today. I've tried wearing them with khaki trousers in casual situations, but I find the look too homogeneous, with the khaki in the trouser blending too much with the khaki in the suede. Even dressed up a bit with a jacket and tie, I find the shoe doesn't look right. I think it's the red sole. With a leather sole, your shoe would probably look very nice combined with the outfit you mention.


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

is that suede shaver?!? :icon_pale:


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> ^^That is definitely NOT a needlepoint belt.


Agreed, although it is a nice belt.

Please check out Smathers and Branson for examples of (nice but overpriced) needlepoint belts.

https://www.smathersandbranson.com/

BTW, I think combining the needlepoint belt and saddle shoes would be overkill. Don't want to look like a freshman pledge to Sigma Nu circa 1982.


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## Captain America (Aug 28, 2012)

I like tennis needlepoint belts. I play tennis.

I have never been able to get my mind free, when it comes to saddle shoes, of the whole Fresh Milk, Bobby Vee, 1950s malt shop, glee club associations. Just too whiffenpoofy for me.

Rationally, I DO appreciate a good, casual lace up shoe, though. But I cannot pull off saddle shoes; I think I tried back in the 1980s.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

I wear mine with jeans, because they're basically dirty bucks with a brown saddle. I'd like a pair like the brown/tan AEs hardline posted to wear in more-or-less the exact way you describe.

I don't really like the Loakes, because there's no broguing. That's sort of a dealbreaker for me.

EDIT: I think you have to relish all the "golly-gee"/Buster Bluth/Suzy Bishop connotations. I will say the coolest person I've seen in saddle shoes was Lloyd Kaufman, the horror film director behind Troma -- blue/white saddles, green cords, guncheck jacket, OCBD, neat tie.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Captain America said:


> I have never been able to get my mind free, when it comes to saddle shoes, of the whole Fresh Milk, Bobby Vee, 1950s malt shop, glee club associations. Just too whiffenpoofy for me.





Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I think you have to relish all the "golly-gee"/Buster Bluth/Suzy Bishop connotations.


To me, that connotation is only attached to the stereotypical black/white version of the saddle, not the examples above. If you really think about it, the saddle shoe:

..is substantially similar to the most formal shoe of all, the plain toe balmoral:

... with the addition of a few extra seams and some brogueing. How casual or not any shoe ends up being depends on the choice and texture of the upper material(s), sole, eyelets, lace color etc.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

Why is the front half of the Saddles in the OP so stretched out? Looks ridiculous compared to all the other shoes in the thread. 

Also, Saddle shoes are great, in moderation.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

leisureclass said:


> Why is the front half of the Saddles in the OP so stretched out? Looks ridiculous compared to all the other shoes in the thread.
> 
> Also, Saddle shoes are great, in moderation.


I imagine that's merely foreshortening, an effect that is intended to bestow a rather dynamic image - the type of thing car manufacturers do.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Shaver said:


> I imagine that's merely foreshortening, an effect that is intended to bestow a rather dynamic image - the type of thing car manufacturers do.


I think it's the last. Very English. You guys should leave this type of stuff to the Americans.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Shaver said:


> I find myself increaingly drawn towards saddle shoes, specifically the Loake Asquith (pictured below).
> 
> It is a shoe which I have never noticed on a man in England and therefor has potential to be somewhat idiosyncratic. However I can really imagine this style working well with moleskins trousers, tatersall shirt and tweed jacket. Am I deluding myself?
> 
> Anyone else like saddle shoes? And if so, what would you wear them with?


I am very fond of saddle shoes and believe that many are extremely handsome casual footwear that can be worn with casual wear anywhere from some country suits on down the line of formality.

I find it odd that anyone would think that they aren't Trad. Saddle shoes are *quintessential* American Trad. During the hey-day of Trad, saddle shoes were on the feet of virtually every college and high school student in America. And while I've seen saddles on UK youngsters of the era, it seems to have never been as prevalent, and to have died out sooner and more completely than in the U.S.

Traditional is international, Trad is American. While many other countries have acquired and adapted Trad to be their own, the wellspring was American Ivy League. (The counter argument, of course, being that American Ivy League was heavily influenced by British public school, which it was.)

I have the greatest respect (And lust!) for the superb footwear that originates from Northampton. Most of what it produces is, IMHO, superior to anything currently made in the U.S. However it was the American footwear industry, prior to its destruction, which developed and perfected certain icons of Trad casual footwear. Two examples being the penny loafer and saddle shoes. Where the sleekness often inherent in many Northampton shoes works to their advantage as dress shoes, it is often not quite right for the aesthetic of some Trad casuals, among which are included saddles. While the innate bumptiousness of American shoes detracts from dress shoes, it often actually tends to enhance the aesthetic of some classic casuals.









Disregarding the brighter colors of this shoe, this is what the *feel* of a classic saddle shoe should be like. (And no, I can't wear this darn last either!) I realize that many UK members will look at such a shoe and think,* YUCK*, for exactly many of the reasons I might be drawn to it. Their eye may be schooled only in a single aesthetic. But what I am proposing is that there are different aesthetics, one not necessarily superior to the other, but each perhaps more suitable to specific modes.

I personally find the Loake shoe too sleek and too elongated, and believe it detracts from the inherent aesthetic of saddle shoes. And I would make the same criticism of many UK saddles that I've seen. (But I'm not wild about AE saddles either.) An exception to this is that I've seen some EG saddles I couldn't improve upon, and C&J makes others which, while not exactly right, are none-the-less handsome shoes.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

swb120 said:


> That belt is fantastic. Where did you get it, if I may ask?


Eliza B. / Leatherman

Motif belt: https://www.elizab.com/product/LM-120-Motif.html

Great stuff on that site.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> I am very fond of saddle shoes and believe that many are extremely handsome casual footwear that can be worn with casual wear anywhere from some country suits on down the line of formality.
> 
> I find it odd that anyone would think that they aren't Trad. Saddle shoes are *quintessential* American Trad. During the hey-day of Trad, saddle shoes were on the feet of virtually every college and high school student in America. And while I've seen saddles on UK youngsters of the era, it seems to have never been as prevalent, and to have died out sooner and more completely than in the U.S.
> 
> ...


I have to agree completely, the clunkiness is part of the casual charm of saddle shoes. Somewhat of a hot rod aesthetic, as I've said before about my AE Leeds.

Doesn't necessarily mix well with all modes of casual dress, but then, what shoes do?

Does Alden's look just about right. The Loakes may be a tad bastardized. Though they sure are Angloamerican 

(I think I'll adhere, though, to the counter argument you've stated above, though that's neither here nor there regarding saddle shoes.)


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

hardline_42 said:


> ^^That is definitely NOT a needlepoint belt.
> 
> As for saddle shoes, they're quite casual. Maybe a notch below PTBs due to the saddle and brogueing. I'd start with something a bit more reserved, like a burgundy/black:
> 
> ...or a brown/tan:


Would love a pair of the brown and tan Allen Edmonds. I'd wear them with flannel trousers, chinos and jeans.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

salgy said:


> is that suede shaver?!? :icon_pale:


I know, I know. :redface: I'm spending too much time with you guys, and definitely being led astray. It was CuffDaddy who started it a while back by exposing me to an image of a very tempting pair of mixed leather and suede shoes and I just keep mulling the idea over.....

There have been some very interesting, and persuasive points, brought up by some of the responders so far and I'm keen to hear more.


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

Shaver said:


> I know, I know. :redface: I'm spending too much time with you guys, and definitely being led astray.


what happened to:


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Shaver said:


> I find myself increaingly drawn towards saddle shoes, specifically the Loake Asquith (pictured below).
> 
> It is a shoe which I have never noticed on a man in England and therefor has potential to be somewhat idiosyncratic. However I can really imagine this style working well with moleskins trousers, tatersall shirt and tweed jacket. Am I deluding myself?
> 
> Anyone else like saddle shoes? And if so, what would you wear them with?


I think saddle shoes are great, and in fact I've been wearing a pair all day today. My knock-about Jarmans. Dark brown with a black saddle.
Just polished leather but a great deal on ebay last year.
And that's the trouble. You can't really find them over here in Europe. 
Herring do some for £275.
https://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&brandid=6&shoeid=5942
But they just look a bit different from the American ones, as others have said.

Shoehealer had a great discount on the Loake Asquith until recently. £150 for certain sizes. I was tempted myself, but looks like it's over now.
https://www.shoehealer.co.uk/

A recent arrival is the Stafano from J. Fitzpatrick, but it might be a bit cutting edge for your tastes.
https://www.theshoesnobblog.com/p/classseparator-styleclear-both-text_21.html

Other than that it's the luck of the draw with buying from the US and figuring out your size.
When you drop lower than AE with the Shelton and the now discontinued Finch, the quality seems to suffer.
BTW, can anyone recommend the Florsheim Markham? Sells for about $150.

I'm still toying with buying some Bass Buchanons for the summer.

I've sworn off buying US shoes unseen now. Got some good ones but it's a gamble, and the sizing issue is still not sorted.
Just dropped off a pair of J&M saddle shoes at a charity shop today. Not one of my best ebay purchases.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

salgy said:


> what happened to:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

C&J saddles for Ben Silver. Not a bullseye, but closer to the mark.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Will B. in saddles. They are not credited in this photo, which shows them to good advantage. But elsewhere I believe he described them as E&G.

https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2010/04/when-spring-is-in-air.html


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

Ok, I'll play..
These are interesting

and these are just about perfect, I think. Preorder from Leffot, 9D no longer available:


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## cincydavid (May 21, 2012)

I love saddles..2 pair of black-on-black, Johnston & Murphy and FootJoy, and one pair each J&M burgundy with black saddle, all black cherry, and beige suede with tan leather saddle and red soles. All but the last have leather soles with radiused edges instead of squared-off edges. I'd love to have a pair with the saddles made from an exotic skin like shark or gator...


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## Shiny (Jan 7, 2013)

I think the black/burgundy saddles wear the best with a navy suit, for example. A mentor of mine (a long time ago) wore this combination quite well so I like that look.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks for reminding me how much I love saddle bucks. Inspired me to pull out the AE Greenwood








(not my pic)


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

I think Hardline's point, that the Loake is on a sleek UK town last, while the US saddle lasts are US blob lasts is significant. Just as the US and UK saddle shoe lasts differ, so does the US and UK version of the country ensemble Shaver envisions in his OP. Here is the UK version, tweed jacket, spread collar tatersall shirt, moleskin pants from Cordings (upper left picture): https://www.cordings.co.uk/menswear. On the other hand, here is a typical US button down shirt version:

Comparing the two versions, the difference in the cut of the jackets stands out. Just as in shoe lasts, the UK jacket is sleeker, the US is by comparison a blob. On both sides of the Atlantic, while different, the ensembles each are consistent.

The Loake is suede, the quintessential leather for a country shoe. That it has a US saddle, to my mind, brings just the right amount of the unexpected to what otherwise might a common ensemble. (Two incongruous items at the same time, e.g. add a needlepoint belt, would be too much.) ( I do not mean common in a negative sense.)

The ability to tweak one element of an ensemble so as to bring a bit of creativity to tradition and convention, is the mark of sophisticated dresser. My hat is off the Shaver.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

One of several pairs of saddles. These are Allen Edmonds Sheltons from the custom program. I specified the double reverse welt and, of course, shell cordovan. I wanted these to be a little gunboat(ish),....I had another pair made in the same shell colors that were much more sleek. (not reverse welt)

I pair them with Khakis, denim, and I've even worn them with grey flannel, blue blazer, and "Trad." Repps or motif ties.


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

Those are sharp 127.72, very nice.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Shiny said:


> I think the black/burgundy saddles wear the best with a navy suit, for example. A mentor of mine (a long time ago) wore this combination quite well so I like that look.


I have black/burgundy AE Sheltons and they get a lot of wear with sport coats (w/ and w/o ties), but would not wear them with a dark business suit. Black, dark brown, or burgundy bals yes. Even chili or medium brown depending on forum. Wingtips or other brogued shoes usually fine, especially if bals. While not big on bluchers with suits, I don't consider them wrong if appropriately conservative/formal. Same goes for tassel and bit loafers. Obviously, I'm not hidebound. But two-toned saddle shoes crosses the line even for me. Got to draw the line somewhere.


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## Shiny (Jan 7, 2013)

127.72 MHz said:


> View attachment 6963
> View attachment 6964
> 
> One of several pairs of saddles. These are Allen Edmonds Sheltons from the custom program. I specified the double reverse welt and, of course, shell cordovan. I wanted these to be a little gunboat(ish),....I had another pair made in the same shell colors that were much more sleek. (not reverse welt)
> ...


Those look great. Would like to see the ones that aren't gunboaty.


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## englade321 (Jul 24, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> I have to agree completely, the clunkiness is part of the casual charm of saddle shoes. Somewhat of a hot rod aesthetic, as I've said before about my AE Leeds.
> 
> Doesn't necessarily mix well with all modes of casual dress, but then, what shoes do?
> 
> ...


In the early 60's at LSU the style was full on ivy league evolving into what is referred to here as trad.Madras Gant shirts worn out ,saddle shoes laces removed rears smashed down and worn sockless.******* frat boy clogs


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

englade321 said:


> In the early 60's at LSU the style was full on ivy league evolving into what is referred to here as trad.Madras Gant shirts worn out ,saddle shoes laces removed rears smashed down and worn sockless.******* frat boy clogs


And the best part is missing! Just as I was about to observe that the same could be said of politicians! :icon_smile_big:


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

127.72 MHz said:


> View attachment 6963
> View attachment 6964
> 
> One of several pairs of saddles. These are Allen Edmonds Sheltons from the custom program. I specified the double reverse welt and, of course, shell cordovan. I wanted these to be a little gunboat(ish),....I had another pair made in the same shell colors that were much more sleek. (not reverse welt)
> ...


I love the storm welt on those. Gives them a mean, PTB look.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

dorji said:


> and these are just about perfect, I think. Preorder from Leffot, 9D no longer available:


Those are beautiful.
Sadly, out of my price range at the moment.


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## Grayland (Oct 22, 2007)

I picked up a pair of these Florsheims about a month ago. $93 with shipping. I like the colors quite a bit and plan to wear them with denim. I realize they aren't top quality shoes, but I have about 3 dozen pairs of quality shoes and these will certainly last me for a while only wearing them a few times a year.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Grayland said:


> I picked up a pair of these Florsheims about a month ago. $93 with shipping. I like the colors quite a bit and plan to wear them with denim. I realize they aren't top quality shoes, but I have about 3 dozen pairs of quality shoes and these will certainly last me for a while only wearing them a few times a year.
> View attachment 6977


Despite being known as a casual shoe, saddle shoes are rarely in blucher form. I've only ever seen a few that don't have closed lacing.


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## andrel42 (Sep 7, 2011)

dorji said:


> Ok, I'll play..
> These are interesting
> 
> and these are just about perfect, I think. Preorder from Leffot, 9D no longer available:


Indeed a beautiful show ... I was lucky enough to be able to pre-order a pair in 10D .. the wait begins (until Spring!)


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Plenty to consider in the responses you have all kindly submitted, thank you.

My thoughts have now crystallised somewhat and I agree with those who have indicated that brougueing is necessary for authenticity. I remain convinced that the pair I shall eventually purchase must contain an element of suede (be it either the actual saddle or the remainder) as all-leather versions are simply too dressy for my requirement. I believe that I could incorporate the look well within my typical bucolic casual wear - as I live in a semi-rural area my day to day clothes are normally reasonably informed by a 'country' style.

Of all the images submitted those posted by AldenPyle tempt me the most - now to locate a vendor who supplies something of this nature.

P.S. Alan, thank you especially for your comment - that is one of the nicest things anyone has ever said of me on this forum. :redface:

.
.
.
.
.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

No suede, but these are the nicest English interpretation I've seen. The grained leather brings the formality down at least a little bit and the last shape is sleek but not overly so.

https://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&brandid=5&shoeid=6682

That said, of course, even though I do prefer the broguing, I think if anybody could fit the Loake Asquith into their wardrobe, you'd be the man for the job.


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

I love saddles! but only of the monocolor/material variety. I have JM's in both tan and black and wear them with everthing from chinos, tweeds, cords, jackets and suits (black only) - goes great when you want to wear BD shirt and dress the suit down a notch.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> No suede, but these are the nicest English interpretation I've seen. The grained leather brings the formality down at least a little bit and the last shape is sleek but not overly so.


I agree entirely with both statements. Splits the difference nicely between casual and dressy. Ideal proportions on a more formal English last with high quality make and leather choices that would position these shoes good for wear with anything from flannel suits on down to khakis.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

After reviewing all of the posted pics, I think that I can now safely say that the more I see saddle shoes, the more I dislike them. Shaver's original pair of shoes is very nice. No perfing...very formal...and almost elegant. But I'm beginning to think that a solid suede version of the shoe without the distracting saddle would be even better.


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> To me, that connotation is only attached to the stereotypical black/white version of the saddle, not the examples above. If you really think about it, the saddle shoe:
> 
> ..is substantially similar to the most formal shoe of all, the plain toe balmoral:
> 
> ... with the addition of a few extra seams and some brogueing. How casual or not any shoe ends up being depends on the choice and texture of the upper material(s), sole, eyelets, lace color etc.


I couldn't agree more. The reason that my first pair of "real" shoes was a pair of Alden Color #8 Saddle shoes was that they seemed a nice compromise between a rather formal plain toe balmoral and something less formal with more brogueing. They go well with a suit for the occasions that I typically wear them (mostly social), and they fit in very nicely with the business casual level of dress that I wear to work everyday. (my usually workday wear is saddle shoes or loafers, khakis, an OCBD, and a Blazer that I hang up once in the office)


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Have a pair AE Polos that I wear once a week, normally with a navy blazer & light gray wool trousers. I know they are not for everyone, but I get more compliments on my saddles than any other shoes I own.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> Have a pair AE Polos that I wear once a week, normally with a navy blazer & light gray wool trousers. I know they are not for everyone, but I get more compliments on my saddles than any other shoes I own.


Bandit, I have my black/burgundy saddles laced exactly the same way! I also have had the same experience with people complimenting my various saddles over any other shoe. Even my wife, who is barely tolerant of my fogeyish style, votes for the saddles whenever I'm vacillating over a shoe choice.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

^ Great minds.:wink2:


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> After reviewing all of the posted pics, I think that I can now safely say that the more I see saddle shoes, the more I dislike them. Shaver's original pair of shoes is very nice. No perfing...very formal...and almost elegant. But I'm beginning to think that a solid suede version of the shoe without the distracting saddle would be even better.


My reply is in no way attempting to sell you on the concept of saddle shoes. But, saddle shoes are, by their origin, a casual affair. (read not formal) The pair of shoes Shaver has posted are a fashion forward interpretation of saddle shoes. (Shaver's saddles are not my cup of tea but to each his own.)


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> My reply is in no way attempting to sell you on the concept of saddle shoes. But, saddle shoes are, by their origin, a casual affair. (read not formal) The pair of shoes Shaver has posted are fashion forward interpretation of saddle shoes. (Shaver's saddles are not my cup of tea but to each his own.)


+1. Precisely!

By trying to make saddles look more like current fashion, the integrity of the aesthetic is destroyed. I.e., you can have saddles *or* you can have fashion.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Flanderian said:


> +1. Precisely!
> 
> By trying to make saddles look more like current fashion, the integrity of the aesthetic is destroyed. I.e., you can have saddles *or* you can have fashion.


What's the consensus then on a saddle shoe with brogueing on the toe, such as these by Herring?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Odradek said:


> What's the consensus then on a saddle shoe with brogueing on the toe, such as these by Herring?


I think it ruins the aesthetic, even though I generally admire most of the shoes that Herring has made up.

And evidently they also decided that width of the saddle needed to be reduced, and it needed to be reshaped. Two additional examples where change does not necessarily equal improvement.

Pity, because they are otherwise very nice shoes.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> I think it ruins the aesthetic, even though I generally admire most of the shoes the Herring has made up.
> 
> And evidently they also decided that width of the saddle needed to be reduced, and it needed to be reshaped. Two additional examples where change does not necessarily equal improvement.
> 
> Pity, because they are otherwise very nice shoes.


What he said.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> +1. Precisely!
> 
> By trying to make saddles look more like current fashion, the integrity of the aesthetic is destroyed. I.e., you can have saddles *or* you can have fashion.


Disagree.

They are not fashion forward, they simply look more like European lasts. ?

European sleeker lasts are by no means less classic than clunkier American lasts.

Simply by being less clunky than the American variety do not mean they are trying to make them look more like current fashion.

I think you are confusing things here...


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Bjorn said:


> Disagree.
> 
> They are not fashion forward, they simply look more like European lasts. ?
> 
> ...


With me it's not the last, the Loake in Shaver's first post had my approval, its the broguing on the toe. To my mind the pattern looks right on these from CJ , not on saddle shoes. https://www.pediwear.co.uk/crockett/products/2953.php https://www.pediwear.co.uk/crockett/products/5562.php


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

But broguing is hardly a fashion detail, especially not from a British maker. As stated above, I prefer the American style saddle, but wouldn't call another variety made in England or Italy fashion forward. 

Also, since the British makers have been at it for some time, I'm sure they can pull out a variety saddle shoe they've made previously. I rack these up to preference rather than classic vs fashionable (which as stated before I don't really agree with amyway).


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

arkirshner said:


> With me it's not the last, the Loake in Shaver's first post had my approval, its the broguing on the toe. To my mind the pattern looks right on these from CJ , not on saddle shoes. https://www.pediwear.co.uk/crockett/products/2953.php https://www.pediwear.co.uk/crockett/products/5562.php


I know what you mean, particularly about the narrowed saddle on the Herrings, though I still like them.
The problem is there is not much availability of saddle shoes on this side of the Atlantic. I suppose it's a quintessential American style.

Nevertheless, I live in hope that I can get some nice ones someday soon.
Found these on a google image search.









I believe they are AE Canfield, which is discontinued. The middle pair and the ones on the right are excellent.
I read somewhere this weekend, (well over at Styleforum), that the current AE Shelton use corrected grain, or "cobbler" leather. Can this be true?

If only they'd offer the custom Shelton in a wider range of colours, much like the custom Neumok promotion they have going now. I'm sure that would be a winner.

As it stands, I might buy a pair of Bass Buchanon, just as a casual shoe for the summer. Having the same old trouble working out what size to get from the US though.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Odradek said:


> [/IMG]
> 
> I believe they are AE Canfield, which is discontinued. The middle pair and the ones on the right are excellent.
> I read somewhere this weekend, (well over at Styleforum), that the current AE Shelton use corrected grain, or "cobbler" leather. Can this be true?
> ...


My Sheldon in burgundy is grain corrected, don't know about the other standard color.
The do offer the Sheldon in their custom program with a wide choice of colors and leathers but with a $135 upcharge. At $470 plus shipping to the UK its more than I would pay.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

Odradek said:


> I read somewhere this weekend, (well over at Styleforum), that the current AE Shelton use corrected grain, or "cobbler" leather. Can this be true?
> 
> If only they'd offer the custom Shelton in a wider range of colours, much like the custom Neumok promotion they have going now. I'm sure that would be a winner.


My AE Shelton has corrected grain, but it is about 4 years old. Shortly after that time, they switched from corrected grain to full grain calf, which is how all Sheltons are made today. I like the look of mine, and the corrected grain is of much better quality than used in less expensive shoe brands.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Bjorn said:


> Disagree.
> 
> They are not fashion forward, they simply look more like European lasts. ?
> 
> ...


I think that to a degree you are correct concerning the Loake shoe, as Loake shoes of my familiarity have long had somewhat elongated lasts. However, the lasts that have come to typify many European shoes over the last ten years are not classic European lasts, and are most certainly a product of fashion. And they are not classic English lasts. I fully agree that many American lasts can correctly be characterized as clunky, while English lasts have not been. But neither have English lasts as a whole been elongated and pointy. There are plenty of Northampton makers who still make classic English lasts with rounded toes and a moderately broad forefoot.

Makes who still make a portion of their shoes on classic lasts include, AS, Cheaney, EG and others. The Herring saddle shoes made by Cheaney are a good example of a last that can be used for saddle shoes, but without the design embellishments that detract from the inherent aesthetic. IMHO, the Loake shoes are not, and not because they're English, but because they're long and pointy.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

The first shoe is Alfred Sargent's Dalham made on their 7WK last. And while this shoe is made as blucher/derby, there's no reason I couldn't be made with a closed throat and absent the storm welt and extended sole. It's a classic English last, and would make a very nice platform for a saddle shoe.









This second shoe is Sanders Reggie made on their 4831 last. It is another classic English last, and if made up as described above would also result in a handsome pair of saddles.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Bjorn said:


> Disagree.
> 
> They are not fashion forward, they simply look more like European lasts. ?
> 
> ...


Flanderian has addressed this so well it hardly makes sense to add,...

Take a look at the Alfred Sargent shoes Flanderian has posted above. Might be the furthest thing from fashion forward/"European," (by your definition) that I can think of. (Dare I say clunky) Yet there's not one stitch on these shoes that's anything other than made in the U.K.. (read NOT U.S.A.)

This is not a European/U.S.A. issue when speaking of shoe lasts. Spend a little time and search images of European shoes from the 1930s through current offerings. See how, for the most part, these purely European lasts looked "Clunky," (again your definition) and have evolved in to what I'll continue to call fashion forward lasts. (Although many British makers continue to offer classic, ("Clunky") designs.

When I think of "Fashion forward" I think of trendy, passing fad, designs that will not stand the test of time. When I think of "Classic," I think of my 1950s-60s vintage British oxfords and U.S.A. Florsheim long wings that look as good now as when they were purchased new.

It's my opinion that saddle shoes, from their inception, are indeed classic. ("Clunky" by your definition) And I think a search of images of saddle shoes from yesteryear will agree with my opinion.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Bjorn said:


> Disagree.
> 
> They are not fashion forward, they simply look more like European lasts. ?
> 
> ...





127.72 MHz said:


> Flanderian has addressed this so well it hardly makes sense to add,...
> 
> Take a look at the Alfred Sargent shoes Flanderian has posted above. Might be the furthest thing from fashion forward/"European," (by your definition) that I can think of. (Dare I say clunky) Yet there's not one stitch on these shoes that's anything other than made in the U.K.. (read NOT U.S.A.)
> 
> ...


While Bjorn certainly can reply himself, it seems to me that the point is that lasts now in common use on the east side of the Atlantic tend to be sleeker than those used on the west side. It only makes sense, from a commercial standpoint, that makers will use the lasts their customers are used to. When US makers have adopted styles that originated on the east side they have used the less sleek US lasts. It seems perfectly reasonable that when a east side maker adopts a west side style the east side maker will use an east side last.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

arkirshner said:


> While Bjorn certainly can reply himself, it seems to me that the point is that lasts now in common use on the east side of the Atlantic tend to be sleeker than those used on the west side. It only makes sense, from a commercial standpoint, that makers will use the lasts their customers are used to. When US makers have adopted styles that originated on the east side they have used the less sleek US lasts. It seems perfectly reasonable that when a east side maker adopts a west side style the east side maker will use an east side last.


Yes, and if you look at classic Lobb, Church's, EG etc, and even G&G, there's a certain waist that simply isn't there with us makers, as well as varying differences in toes, more chiseled, less rounded. Heels are also slightly more squared.

The higher angle at turn and slimmer lasts will make the shoes slightly more pointed.

This is indeed a British vs US design issue, 'not' a question of what is more or less fashion forward.

Especially not since round lasts are currently quite fashionable with some looks, hipster fashion having assimilated the American work boot (both wedge sole and commando). I don't see square toes as being very fashionable right now. Classic sneakers and red wing boots though, that's fashionable.

Also, the pointy shoe in its extreme is not without forerunners. And that Loake is not really that pointy. The original saddle shoe is rather round.

I could quite like a sleeker shoe with a saddle, though not a two tone. But I would not consider it 'a saddle'.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> The first shoe is Alfred Sargent's Dalham made on their 7WK last. And while this shoe is made as blucher/derby, there's no reason I couldn't be made with a closed throat and absent the storm welt and extended sole. It's a classic English last, and would make a very nice platform for a saddle shoe.
> 
> View attachment 7030
> 
> ...


Church's Diplomat on the 173:









Church's consul:








Heavy country brogues, church's grafton:

The Loake Asquith (swing last):

Even with these Trickers, there's a certain bevel rather than roundness:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

127.72 MHz said:


> Flanderian has addressed this so well it hardly makes sense to add,...
> 
> Take a look at the Alfred Sargent shoes Flanderian has posted above. Might be the furthest thing from fashion forward/"European," (by your definition) that I can think of. (Dare I say clunky) Yet there's not one stitch on these shoes that's anything other than made in the U.K.. (read NOT U.S.A.)
> 
> ...


Clunky does not equal classic, no do sleek equal fashion forward. The best british custom made shoes where not made on clunky lasts. This should not be a point of contention.

It's obvious that you put anything besides rounded lasts into a purely fictitious "fashion forward" category that does not really exist.

Do you consider these G&G's "fashion forward"? :








These Carminas? :








They are not fashion forward. They are made, however, on more European looking lasts.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

These are Edward Green:








Not exactly looking like AE:s


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Or like Alden's:


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

Odradek said:


> As it stands, I might buy a pair of Bass Buchanon, just as a casual shoe for the summer.


Last year I picked a slightly cruder model called the Bass Eugene at an outlet with similar intentions. It is probably discontinued but it's a low-nap nubuck with a less shapely saddle, only four eyelets, and a hard rubber sole featuring a Dainite-like pattern. They are pretty wide.

When new, they look a bit twee but age really becomes them. The rather blunt round toe helps take them out of the dressy arena and into kick around territory. Needless to say, they are worn year round with khakis, corduroy, and moleskin. If I had linen, seersucker or any such thing, they'd probably work with that too.


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

Odradek said:


> I read somewhere this weekend, (well over at Styleforum), that the current AE Shelton use corrected grain, or "cobbler" leather. Can this be true?


I had a lengthy conversation with customer service at allen edmonds earlier this week & was told that they are no longer using corrected grain (or polished cobbler as they used to call it) on *any* of their shoes... The only item they currently have in polished cobbler is a belt...


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

salgy said:


> I had a lengthy conversation with customer service at allen edmonds earlier this week & was told that they are no longer using corrected grain (or polished cobbler as they used to call it) on *any* of their shoes... The only item they currently have in polished cobbler is a belt...


Thanks for the update. Now they will hear from everyone who likes corrected grain.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ if someone likes corrected grain leather it's because they don't understand what it is. Once someone understands what corrected grain leather is they understand that one "makes due" until one's budget allows better quality.

After speaking with several people at Allen Edmonds over the years I feel certain that you're correct. I could never be in the retail business, my heart wouldn't take it, and I'm sure I'd blow a 50 amp fuse,.... People having strong opinions on subjects they know nothing about.

Favorite quote from Winston Churchill: "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

Wore my Alden pebble grain calf with #8 saddle shoes to church today with camel BB 3/2 jacket and BB brown and tan flannel houndstooth trousers and Drakes brown wool chalais tie. Since retirement, I take whatever chances I can to wear the good stuff that I've collected over the years.
Tom


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

arkirshner said:


> Thanks for the update. Now they will hear from everyone who likes corrected grain.


Nobody _likes_ corrected grain, do they?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

salgy said:


> Nobody _likes_ corrected grain, do they?


Actually, good corrected grain has its place because, as it has a smoother surface, it reflects light better, which in turn allows a brighter shine. Some corrected grain is better than others. Church's is well known for a few styles with top quality corrected grain. I will admit to having a pair of 25 year old corrected grain black AE bals (Danbury for those with ancient memories), in my rotation.


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

^ makes sense Ark... I guess the corrected grain I have been subjected to is not top quality... I have only seen it used on the cheap-o department store shoes...


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

Odradek said:


> IAs it stands, I might buy a pair of Bass Buchanon, just as a casual shoe for the summer. Having the same old trouble working out what size to get from the US though.


Don't waste your money. Worst shoe I've ever owned (in terms of construction).


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

Tempest said:


> Last year I picked a slightly cruder model called the Bass Eugene at an outlet with similar intentions. It is probably discontinued but it's a low-nap nubuck with a less shapely saddle, only four eyelets, and a hard rubber sole featuring a Dainite-like pattern. They are pretty wide.
> 
> When new, they look a bit twee but age really becomes them. The rather blunt round toe helps take them out of the dressy arena and into kick around territory. Needless to say, they are worn year round with khakis, corduroy, and moleskin. If I had linen, seersucker or any such thing, they'd probably work with that too.


The Buchanan is much less substantial of a shoe than the Eugene. I have Eugene white bucs that are years older than the Buchanons I owned (that fell completely to pieces in less than a year), and they've done quite well. Completely different shoes.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

rwaldron said:


> The Buchanan is much less substantial of a shoe than the Eugene. I have Eugene white bucs that are years older than the Buchanons I owned (that fell completely to pieces in less than a year), and they've done quite well. Completely different shoes.


Any thoughts on their other saddle shoe, the Burlington?


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

Odradek said:


> Any thoughts on their other saddle shoe, the Burlington?


On second look, the good pair I have might be Burlingtons, not Eugenes. If that is the case, I can't say a bad thing about them.


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## bluenose (Nov 23, 2009)

As long as we're doing saddles, I add my own made to order (black with chili saddles 12 E) AE sheltons.

Saddles never really look like serious shoes but these are substantial and I even wear them with a navy or brown suit.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

bluenose said:


> View attachment 7120
> 
> 
> As long as we're doing saddles, I add my own made to order (black with chili saddles 12 E) AE sheltons.
> ...


In Calgary with such a paring can you can be taken seriously?


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## Shiny (Jan 7, 2013)

Why not black/burgundy saddles with a navy suit? It sure beats over 75% off the rubber soled/bicycle toed/penny loafers/slipons/driving shoes (?!) that I see most men wearing with suits nowadays.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Shiny said:


> Why not black/burgundy saddles with a navy suit?


Because you know better.



Shiny said:


> It sure beats over 75% off the rubber soled/bicycle toed/penny loafers/slipons/driving shoes (?!) that I see most men wearing with suits nowadays.


Why settle for a 75 and a low C when even the right styles from Cole Hawn or Johnson & Murphy will put you in the 90s with an A?[/QUOTE]


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Shiny said:


> Why not black/burgundy saddles with a navy suit? It sure beats over 75% off the rubber soled/bicycle toed/penny loafers/slipons/driving shoes (?!) that I see most men wearing with suits nowadays.


I think they'd look great.
Granted, I don't work in a business environment, and have to think up reasons to wear a suit, but I hope to get some AE Sheltons next time I get to the USA


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Agree with Mr. Kirshner, above. That said, they could work well with a seersucker suit, even the hard to find solid navy seersucker suit. But I don't think they work well at all with a traditional navy wool business suit.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I recently became aware of J&M shoes (via Snow Hill Pond's 'Recently Resoled Shoe 'thread). They have a very tempting looking saddle shoe available (the plain Ellington in sand and tan). Can anyone comment on the quality of these shoes?

.
.
.
.
.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Shaver said:


> I recently became aware of J&M shoes (via Snow Hill Pond's 'Recently Resoled Shoe 'thread). They have a very tempting looking saddle shoe available (the plain Ellington in sand and tan). Can anyone comment on the quality of these shoes?
> 
> .
> .


Going on what is discussed on this forum J&M aren't as good as they used to be, but do still have one top of the line range of shoes that are made in America.
The rest are made outside the US in various locations.

I did buy a pair of J&M burgundy and black saddle shoes on ebay late last year and was not happy with them at all, but the issue was mainly with the seller rather than the shoes themselves. Described as leather, they were very plastic-y polished leather. Don't have them anymore.

They do have some very nice shoes on their site and promise the sterling price they quote included all customs charges, which is very cool if it works.
I like their HOLBROOK LINEN CAP TOE. Cemented construction, but as something like this is probably only going to get occasional wear, they could last years.

If you do buy anything from them, can you let us know how the shipping and customs issues go?
Got hit this week with a £12 charge for a pair of cufflinks I bought on ebay from the States. Only cost me £13.50 plus very reasonable shipping, but the seller had put a higher price on the customs declaration for some reason, so I had to pay nearly the same price again.


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## Sgpearl (Dec 11, 2012)

I just purchased these AE Polos in burgundy shell cordovan.



















Seems like a classic saddle shoe, other than the lack of a contrasting color. I think I would wear them with a navy suit for work (I work as a mediator, helping other attorneys settle cases). Without the contrast, I don't think they stand out as being overly eccentric. Thoughts?

I also would wear them with jeans, because jeans are my favorite thing to wear and I love to wear them with nice shoes. :icon_smile_big:


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Shaver, J&Ms are all over the place in terms of quality, based on what I've seen at their outlet stores. It's a weird mixture of stuff that seems pretty decent (real calf, a goodyear welt, reasonable workmanship), and shoes that are poorly done. Based on the price, I'd guess that the Ellington is at the low end of things -- probably glued together.


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Shaver said:


> I recently became aware of J&M shoes (via Snow Hill Pond's 'Recently Resoled Shoe 'thread). They have a very tempting looking saddle shoe available (the plain Ellington in sand and tan). Can anyone comment on the quality of these shoes?.


Shaver,
The J&M shoes that qualify for refurbishment are marked by a hammer or a statement that they qualify; this shoe does not. On the other hand, the shoe may last a long time, some of the high end fashion designs are also glued. These seem to be well enough made considering. The insole will likely be the first thing to go...
Have J&Ms of various ages, and the old ones were good. The newer ones have been a bit hit or miss, but adhesives are not generally the problem with them.
This seems like an occasional shoe to be worn for a few seasons and let go. They do look tempting in their photos.
Best regards,
rudy


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## yen157 (Feb 16, 2012)

Gorgeous


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Sgpearl said:


> Seems like a classic saddle shoe, other than the lack of a contrasting color. I think I would wear them with a navy suit for work (I work as a mediator, helping other attorneys settle cases). Without the contrast, I don't think they stand out as being overly eccentric. Thoughts?


They are still saddle shoes and they should be worn with a wool navy suit only if you do not have better options. After all a navy suit is high on the formality ladder. A navy poplin suit is another story. (See Mr. Petrik's post a few days ago).


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## Sgpearl (Dec 11, 2012)

arkirshner said:


> They are still saddle shoes and they should be worn with a wool navy suit only if you do not have better options. After all a navy suit is high on the formality ladder. A navy poplin suit is another story. (See Mr. Petrik's post a few days ago).


Thank you, akirshner. Much appreciated.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Plenty to consider in the responses you have all kindly submitted, thank you.
> 
> My thoughts have now crystallised somewhat and I agree with those who have indicated that brougueing is necessary for authenticity. I remain convinced that the pair I shall eventually purchase must contain an element of suede (be it either the actual saddle or the remainder) as all-leather versions are simply too dressy for my requirement. I believe that I could incorporate the look well within my typical bucolic casual wear - as I live in a semi-rural area my day to day clothes are normally reasonably informed by a 'country' style.
> 
> Of all the images submitted those posted by AldenPyle tempt me the most - now to locate a vendor who supplies something of this nature.


Late breaking news is that Allen Edmonds have some nice saddle shoes as a webgem right now.
Well the blue saddled ones look nice to me. Not so sure about the orange.
I think just a version of the Shelton in brighter hues.
Good for summer?

I'd sworn off buying shoes from the US after so many problems with sizing, but I am tempted.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

They certainly hid those well. Normally they send e-mail notice and have a link on the homepage.

They are clever with the accents. Matching laces, piping, welt stitching a middle layer of the sole and the rubber combination sole.
The last used is, IME, very wide.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Tempest said:


> They certainly hid those well. Normally they send e-mail notice and have a link on the homepage.
> 
> They are clever with the accents. Matching laces, piping, welt stitching a middle layer of the sole and the rubber combination sole.
> The last used is, IME, very wide.


That's good to know.
Quintons are the only AE shoes I have, in an 8D, and they are slightly narrow. That's the 8 last.
Took a good bit of stretching before I could wear them, but I find now they get more comfortable the more I wear them.
Was thinking I'd need to go to an 8E next time, but perhaps a D would be fine.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

Odradek said:


> That's good to know.
> Quintons are the only AE shoes I have, in an 8D, and they are slightly narrow. That's the 8 last.
> Took a good bit of stretching before I could wear them, but I find now they get more comfortable the more I wear them.
> Was thinking I'd need to go to an 8E next time, but perhaps a D would be fine.


The webgems that you are looking at, the Kirby, is on the #4 last, which should give you more room than the #8 last that you have now. If you want even more room, try the Shelton, which is on the #1 last, their most generous last. It is not a webgem, and it is more expensive, but it is a very comfortable last and it is always available as a regular offering.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

blue suede shoes said:


> The webgems that you are looking at, the Kirby, is on the #4 last, which should give you more room than the #8 last that you have now. If you want even more room, try the Shelton, which is on the #1 last, their most generous last. It is not a webgem, and it is more expensive, but it is a very comfortable last and it is always available as a regular offering.


Thanks.
.

Seems to pe pretty much similar to the Shelton, but with different sole and welt.
Good to know it's roomy.
Trying to figure out the price for me here, with shipping to Europe and the inevitable customs charges.

EDIT: I just tried a run through on buying the Kirby, just to see what the shipping charges would be. AE diverted me to a site called Bongo International, which apparently handles all their non-US shipping.
Suddenly up popped the following message...


> _The following items are not currently available for export and have been removed from the cart:
> _2484 D 080 - Brown Leather with Blue Saddle and Lining Kirby_


Is this normal?
Is it because it's a Webgem?
Are they for the US market only?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Dark tan, with a navy blue saddle...seems like another must have to me? 
At $199, out the door, those shoes are a real bargain. 
I'm on a navy shoe binge lately!


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

I really want to jump on this, but there are other shoes that have higher priority for me. If they made these with a white vamp and quarters, I'd be on this faster than green grass through a goose. but I also need Penny loafers and longwings. Another pair of saddles sure would be nice though...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> Dark tan, with a navy blue saddle...seems like another must have to me?
> At $199, out the door, those shoes are a real bargain.
> I'm on a navy shoe binge lately!


Sadly, AE is taking no more orders for the webgem Kirby design promotion, in any of the three saddle color options! Too bad...that shoe would have been a lot of fun to wear.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> Sadly, AE is taking no more orders for the webgem Kirby design promotion, in any of the three saddle color options! Too bad...that shoe would have been a lot of fun to wear.


What?
Why?

I e-mailed AE about the inability to order the Kirby from outside the US, and got a very quick reply saying to contact the "Customer Assistance Center" as there is some problem with international shipping and webgems. Nothing to say the shoe was not available.

Doh ! Just went to the AE site and got this message...


> We're sorry. This product has recently sold out and is no longer available for purchase. We are in the process of removing it from our website.
> Click the button below to return to the last page you were viewing.


What's up with that?


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## Barnavelt (Jul 31, 2012)

I have a pair of navy Finches from AE that have been a rather great pair of shoes, very flexible for different casual situations and they look fantastic with pink or brick red pants. I only see the red version on the AE website but I heartily recommend them. (The navy leather is brighter in person than in the photo).


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Odradek said:


> What?
> Why?
> 
> I e-mailed AE about the inability to order the Kirby from outside the US, and got a very quick reply saying to contact the "Customer Assistance Center" as there is some problem with international shipping and webgems. Nothing to say the shoe was not available.
> ...


I called AE and in talking with a customer assistance rep, was told that there were some production issues regarding the soles for the design in question and the sales offer was being withdrawn until those issues were resolved. Saddening, oh yes; maddening, perhaps; but when it enables us to avoid having to return a potentially flawed pair of shoes, gladdening...without a doubt!  Although I do hope AE is able to fix the problem and resurrect the Kirby design webgem offer...that was/is one great looking shoe!!


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> I called AE and in talking with a customer assistance rep, was told that there were some production issues regarding the soles for the design in question and the sales offer was being withdrawn until those issues were resolved. Saddening, oh yes; maddening, perhaps; but when it enables us to avoid having to return a potentially flawed pair of shoes, gladdening...without a doubt!  Although I do hope AE is able to fix the problem and resurrect the Kirby design webgem offer...that was/is one great looking shoe!!


Yes indeed.
I'd actually prefer them with a regular leather sole though. 
Hope they return soon.

And, with regard to my problem with ordering from outside the US, I e-mailed AE and was told there was a problem with international orders for webgems through the website, but that orders could be placed by phone.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> No suede, but these are the nicest English interpretation I've seen. The grained leather brings the formality down at least a little bit and the last shape is sleek but not overly so.
> 
> https://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&brandid=5&shoeid=6682
> 
> That said, of course, even though I do prefer the broguing, I think if anybody could fit the Loake Asquith into their wardrobe, you'd be the man for the job.


These are very nice. I think I could wear this on alternate Thursdays for pattern day...


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Odradek said:


> What's the consensus then on a saddle shoe with brogueing on the toe, such as these by Herring?


I like these even better, just not for business. I could wear the two on the right.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

I notice many of these examples have the tongue leather pinked. That's not a look I like; it seems somehow unfinished. Actually, I don't like seeing pinked leather generally, but I can live with it if it's on an overlay piece rather than "naked."


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## Svalan (Feb 13, 2013)

I don't know much about shoes yet but I am thinking of a pair of saddle shoes for the summer. I found these from Bass at a fair price:

https://i.ebayimg.com/t/GH-Bass-Co-...GrHqN,!qcFEOWU6V0lBRIzJLNp6w~~60_57.JPG?rt=nc

https://i.ebayimg.com/t/GH-Bass-Co-014-1929-Mens-Size-8-5-Brown-Leather-Oxfords-Shoes-No-Box-/00/s/MTAwMFgxMDAw/z/CvMAAMXQjWtRIzJB/$T2eC16VHJGYE9nooiL8dBRIzJBGjjQ~~60_57.JPG?rt=nc
(sorry for the long links)

What do you think about them? Could i use them for a casual outfit with a pair of khakis?


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes, but a fair price for those would have to be pretty cheap. They have them at the DSW near me for under $70. They look nicer than the Florsheim ones I bought, but those were $30. I'm not sure what the deal with getting Bass shoes in Sweden is, or if you're buying from ebay or not, but don't pay too much.

Stylistically, they'd be fine with khakis or jeans, plus corduroys in the cool and linen in the heat.


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## Svalan (Feb 13, 2013)

Thanks, the price is 40 dollars including the shipping cost so i would say it's a pretty fair price as i've been looking for a pair of saddle bucks for a long time with no luck.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Svalan said:


> Thanks, the price is 40 dollars including the shipping cost so i would say it's a pretty fair price as i've been looking for a pair of saddle bucks for a long time with no luck.


If I needed a pair, and I wasn't saving for anything else, I'd buy them at that price.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Svalan said:


> Thanks, the price is 40 dollars including the shipping cost so i would say it's a pretty fair price as i've been looking for a pair of saddle bucks for a long time with no luck.


I haven't been happy with the Bass shoes I've purchased and seen. I had one pair were the left shoe was fine, but the right shoe looked as if it was made by an Orangutan. Too late I remembered going through shoe after shoe, and model after model at a Bass store and finding the same thing. The only possible explanation I can think of for this consistent inconsistency is that they must have the right and left shoes made in different places. Crazy, I know, but the kind of thing a brand searching for the lowest cost manufacturer might do.

Still, for $40, you might try your luck and see if you're better pleased than me.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Update: I have succumbed to temptation and ordered this pair. 










May I take this opportunity to publicly thank Odradek who was exceedingly considerate in PM'ing me with details of a discounted offer that I was able to take advantage of. Odradek you are a gentleman and no mistake. :icon_smile:


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## Sgpearl (Dec 11, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Update: I have succumbed to temptation and ordered this pair.


I'd like to see you put a shine on those!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Sgpearl said:


> I'd like to see you put a shine on those!




I will have to learn how to care for suede - a material with which I have absolutely no experience whatever. Any tips gents?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Shaver said:


> I will have to learn how to care for suede - a material with which I have absolutely no experience whatever. Any tips gents?


A piece of cake! :thumbs-up:

Purchase a good nylon suede brush and a suede eraser. (Note: A nylon suede brush can be used on any suede. A brass suede brush will eventually tarnish and discolor lighter suede.) Use the brush frequently, and the eraser when needed. The eraser will remove most anything that soils the suede.

I've found suede protective sprays to be of questionable value.

As long as you don't get the suede completely soaked in wet weather, the only thing I've found that can leave permanent spots on lighter suede is oil. I have some suede shoes upon which a spot of olive oil landed while I was cooking. The eraser has been of little help, and I shall begin experimenting with suede cleaner.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Update: I have succumbed to temptation and ordered this pair.
> 
> May I take this opportunity to publicly thank Odradek who was exceedingly considerate in PM'ing me with details of a discounted offer that I was able to take advantage of. Odradek you are a gentleman and no mistake. :icon_smile:


Why, thank you Sir.
I have just bought my own pair, which should be coming to my door sometime this morning.
After I ordered, I remembered this thread and your opening pictures of the Asquith.

I bought another pair of suede shoes last week, so really shouldn't have, but that offer was too good to miss.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> A piece of cake! :thumbs-up:
> 
> Purchase a good nylon suede brush and a suede eraser. (Note: A nylon suede brush can be used on any suede. A brass suede brush will eventually tarnish and discolor lighter suede.) Use the brush frequently, and the eraser when needed. The eraser will remove most anything that soils the suede.
> 
> ...


Thanks Flanderian - any particular brands of brush and/or eraser that you might recommend?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Shaver said:


> Thanks Flanderian - any particular brands of brush and/or eraser that you might recommend?


No, sorry, I can't be of much assistance. The ones I purchased were a set being sold by the American shoe company Johnston and Murphy, and I purchased them more than a dozen years ago. Both articles are pretty simple and must be inexpensive to produce, so I would hope that most you could find should suffice. Aside from not being colored, the eraser looks very much like a larger rectangular pencil eraser, though it may be of slightly different compound. And the brush is a small rectangular brush perhaps 1" X 3" with stiff nylon bristles about 1" long.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
My suede care kit came from AE years ago, when I purchased a pair of AE's Orlean's (I think the design was called). The shoes have been passed on, but the suede care kit continues to provide good service to other suedes in my collection. The suede water and stain protection spray I use is KIWI Suede Protector and it seems to have worked well for me. Shaver, I think your best bet for finding the right suede care kit is to go back to the manufacturer of your new suedes! Good luck in your hunt.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> My suede care kit came from AE years ago, when I purchased a pair of AE's Orlean's (I think the design was called). The shoes have been passed on, but the suede care kit continues to provide good service to other suedes in my collection. The suede water and stain protection spray I use is KIWI Suede Protector and it seems to have worked well for me. Shaver, I think your best bet for finding the right suede care kit is to go back to the manufacturer of your new suedes! Good luck in your hunt.


By sheer coincidence I have just received a few items from the Sapphir range (thought I'd see what all the fuss was about) supplied by A Fine Pair of Shoes and they included a leaflet in the package which detailed the Sapphir suede care brushes and erasers - so I have placed an order for those.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Shaver said:


> the Sapphir suede care brushes and erasers - so I have placed an order for those.


 I suspect they will serve you well.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Update: I have succumbed to temptation and ordered this pair.


Update : Public Service Announcement

The discontinued in the Loake Factory Ebay shop.

That "Swing" last does run about half a size large.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Just to update the thread, back in the summer I got a pair of the Loake Asquith when Herring were selling them off at a substantial reduction. A month or two later, I think in September, I got a pair of Brooks Brothers Allen Edmonds Sheltons. Factory seconds from Jeffersonville. Hopefully a pair of the burgundy and black Sheltons will make their way here sometime.

The Asquiths are more or less for summer use, but the Sheltons were on my feet the day before yesterday.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Absolutely shameless self promotion...


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## andrel42 (Sep 7, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> Absolutely shameless self promotion...


Nice pair! If you could make then 1 size smaller ...


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Odradek said:


> Just to update the thread, back in the summer I got a pair of the Loake Asquith when Herring were selling them off at a substantial reduction. A month or two later, I think in September, I got a pair of Brooks Brothers Allen Edmonds Sheltons. Factory seconds from Jeffersonville. Hopefully a pair of the burgundy and black Sheltons will make their way here sometime.
> 
> *The Asquiths are more or less for summer use*, but the Sheltons were on my feet the day before yesterday.


It's true, the onset of the dreadful English winter means that my own pair are currently sleeping in their box till next Spring. I shall be jolly welll pleased to have them back on my feet again next year.


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