# COULD IT BE THAT THEY EXIST? Cordovan weejuns. Paul Stuart.



## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Have not gone to see in person, but this shoe is the closest to the real Weejun I have ever seen, and it seems to be shell!

https://www.paulstuart.com/product_...08&MainCatId=14&HEADERMENUID=1&SUBPRODCATID=0


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## Hard2Fit (May 11, 2005)

Wow.
Nice.
I'd like to see those in person as well.


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## Arid (Feb 13, 2007)

Nice! Too bad only comes in D width.


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

Very intriguing indeed!

Any thoughts as to whether they are lined or not?


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Interesting. Something isnt adding up though. Paul Stuart often carries shell cordovan shoes, but at a price tag of $850 and up. Its curious that these would be priced at only $588. If I have some time this afternoon I will stop by and investigate. I work only a few blocks from the store.


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

Phil,

I might see you there.

I was thinking the same thing, but if this is an unlined, non-English shoe, the price is not out of the realm of possibility.

Paul Stuart has alot of different price points and quality levels these days and if the constructionquality matches that of there $300-$400 range, then the Alden LHS might be the better bet for a similar shoe.

I'm in the market for a penny loafer and was actually leaning towards the C&J Harvard in dark brown shell. I will be sure to check these out today, though.


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Fair point about the country of origin. The unlined part wouldnt have that much of an effect on price I wouldnt think. 

I love the Harvard model as well, but I can only find it in D width and I need a C in most loafers.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

C&J Harvard unlined cordovan loafer reigns (pretty much) supreme in its field, I think. I certainly wouldn't buy these in place of those.

I am more interested in these loafers as a novelty item -- something really NOT needed. They would literally fill the spot in one's wardrobe currently filled by the Bass Weejun, just at 10x the price point. 

These are most likely NOT Grenson MPs. Probably not Goodyear welted.

Curious to see what you guys think when you see them in person today!


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

It's likely Italian made. I think PS has been introducing more made in Italy shoe models.

Handsome shoe.


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

*IMHO the Alden 986 (or BB equivalent) is a better looking shoe*

After looking at 986s for a long time, weejuns just don't look that good to me. Of course, to each his own.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

It does appear to be a replica (in shape/design) to the Weejun. Interesting. Look forward to receiving feedback.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

PS used to carry a shell cordovan, mocassin constructed, fully lined loafer, made in Maine yet carrying the "Designed by Edward Green" imprint. I had a pair, wore them pretty much to oblivion and donated them to Goodwill. (I'm still trying to understand the last part.) These look like USA-made shoes right in line with their price point, although I haven't seen them in person either.


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## Hard2Fit (May 11, 2005)

A little off topic but $595 vs $588.
Hmmmh. . .


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

Since Markus brought it up, I'm compelled to ask why not go for the 986? We know that the stitching on the toe of the 986 doesn't actually join two pieces of leather, but is decoration.

Is that enough reason not to go for the 986, or the BB unlined version, LHS?


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## Hard2Fit (May 11, 2005)

Well said.
$595 vs $588 vs $568 vs $535.

So many choices. . .


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Intrepid said:


> Since Markus brought it up, I'm compelled to ask why not go for the 986? We know that the stitching on the toe of the 986 doesn't actually join two pieces of leather, but is decoration.
> 
> Is that enough reason not to go for the 986, or the BB unlined version, LHS?


To me, Weejuns fill a 100% different spot in the wardrobe than shoes like the 986 and the PRL Darlton. The latter two shoes are far more formal and sleek in appearance (especially the Darlton), while Weejuns are far more casual, closer to topsiders, I'd argue, than to anything like the Darlton, or the Alden Flat Strap (684), the C&J Rosebury, Harvard, or Boston, or a tassel loafer.

So for me, these PS shoes would be very expensive topsider stand-ins, not shoes I would put in the same category of garment as my 986s or Darltons.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

qwerty said:


> ...So for me, these PS shoes would be very expensive topsider stand-ins, not shoes I would put in the same category of garment as my 986s or Darltons.


...but, are these PS cordovan pennys legitimate stand-ins for Weejuns. The original Weejuns were of true moc construction; Alden LHS's are not, nor are the Darltons. Are these PS cordovan penny's of true moc construction? I cannot tell from the pictures but, think not!


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

qwerty said:


> To me, Weejuns fill a 100% different spot in the wardrobe than shoes like the 986 and the PRL Darlton. The latter two shoes are far more formal and sleek in appearance (especially the Darlton), while Weejuns are far more casual, closer to topsiders, I'd argue, than to anything like the Darlton, or the Alden Flat Strap (684), the C&J Rosebury, Harvard, or Boston, or a tassel loafer.
> 
> So for me, these PS shoes would be very expensive topsider stand-ins, not shoes I would put in the same category of garment as my 986s or Darltons.


We agree completely. It is certainly a matter of personal choice, however, 984, and 986 have definite roles, very different from boat shoes. However, is there really a place for a cordovan boat shoe? Maybe so.


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

I went to see these at the Madison Avenue shop after work yesterday.

They are purported to be made in America.

I am not an expert on shoe anatomy, but there is stitching through the bottom of the sole. However, the way the vamp folds under the shoe seems a bit odd to me, almost is if it COULD be a glue job and not Goodyear welted.

I asked the salesman if they were Goodyear welted and he replied, "Yeah," but I was not convinced he knew what that meant.

Personally, I would never pay $500 for this kind of shoe. I'd rather pay $10 for an used pair of real Weejuns at a yard sale. 

I did, by the way, purchase Harvards in dark brown shell this afternoon. I had shell cordovan on the mind for days. Needed to scrath the itch.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Puffdaddy said:


> I did, by the way, purchase Harvards in dark brown shell this afternoon. I had shell cordovan on the mind for days. Needed to scrath the itch.


PICS PLEASE!!!!!!


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## Hard2Fit (May 11, 2005)

qwerty said:


> PICS PLEASE!!!!!!


+1.
:icon_smile:


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Puffdaddy said:


> I went to see these at the Madison Avenue shop after work yesterday.
> 
> They are purported to be made in America.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming they're made of genuine shell cordovan. Yes?


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## M. Charles (Mar 31, 2007)

Harris said:


> I'm assuming they're made of genuine shell cordovan. Yes?


I stopped by Paul Stuart today in Manhattan. The shoe salesman told me they were shell cordovan and made in USA.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

So I suppose the question is which American shoe makers have access to enough shell cordovan to make the shoe. Alden and Allen Edmonds come to mind immediately. I guess there's no reason to think the former isn't responsible for what appears to be a really classic, good-looking shoe. The heel stitching isn't identical to the Weejun; it looks similar to the heel stitching on the Alden (Cape Cod series) beefroll mocs. I wouldn't be surprised to learn it's a hammock-style/one piece moccasin construction.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Well, I assume they're not Alden. They don't look like anything Alden makes or has made recently. They COULD be AE, but don't look like the Danbury, Cameron, Dover, Hanover, Walden, or Burke, which are AE's Weejun-type shoes.

I don't know who else makes shoes in the US. Could be some small manufacturer in New England (Maine perhaps).

The question the answer to which would get us to some resolution is whether any maker has access to Horween shell, or if Alden and AE have exclusivity contracts for the made-in-US market.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

qwerty said:


> Well, I assume they're not Alden. They don't look like anything Alden makes or has made recently. They COULD be AE, but don't look like the Danbury, Cameron, Dover, Hanover, Walden, or Burke, which are AE's Weejun-type shoes.
> 
> I don't know who else makes shoes in the US. Could be some small manufacturer in New England (Maine perhaps).
> 
> The question the answer to which would get us to some resolution is whether any maker has access to Horween shell, or if Alden and AE have exclusivity contracts for the made-in-US market.


True enough about which makers have access to shell.

As for Alden: I assume those artisans could/can make pretty much anything they so choose--that they would agree to making it a reality when presented with a design/idea from a retailer such Paul Stuart. We know they make shoes solely (forgive pun) for the Japanese market, so it stands to reason they might be open to being commissioned for designs that are unique to certain retailers.

edit: Having said all that, I still have no idea who made that shoe. I like it very much though.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Harris!*

Gentlemen

Harris, my dear friend. I disagree with you, these are Alden. I am oing to get a pair of them. Nice loafer!

Nice day my friends


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

I saw these in person today. They are made in Maine apparently. The salesperson seemed to know what he was talking about, and showed me 4 or so pairs from the same line. Paul Stuart is developing a small line of loafers with a small company up in Maine. The construction of these bore no resemblance to any Aldens I have ever seen. From the soles to the internal markings to the stitching. These are not Aldens, unless Alden owns a small artisan loafer making company up in Maine.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Phil said:


> I saw these in person today. They are made in Maine apparently. The salesperson seemed to know what he was talking about, and showed me 4 or so pairs from the same line. Paul Stuart is developing a small line of loafers with a small company up in Maine. The construction of these bore no resemblance to any Aldens I have ever seen. From the soles to the internal markings to the stitching. These are not Aldens, unless Alden owns a small artisan loafer making company up in Maine.


Alden does own a small shoe factory in Maine. That's where the Cape Cod line is made. As far as these PS shoes being Alden, I highly doubt it. I'm sure there are other small shoe factories in Maine that do outsourcing for other brands. I'm pretty sure Alden wouldn't use their shell allocation for these loafers when they are already backlogged in their own shell shoes.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

There are also these: https://www.fairmountshoes.com/co_produits.php?pdt=1&rfp=1FA-20-05-06&idl=103&lim=0

for much less than $588. Anyone have experience with them?


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

LeatherSOUL said:


> Alden does own a small shoe factory in Maine. That's where the Cape Cod line is made. As far as these PS shoes being Alden, I highly doubt it. I'm sure there are other small shoe factories in Maine that do outsourcing for other brands. I'm pretty sure Alden wouldn't use their shell allocation for these loafers when they are already backlogged in their own shell shoes.


Tom, thanks for the clarification. I had no idea they owned a factory in Maine. The shell used in these loafers though wasnt color 8, and it wasnt cigar. It was a very flat and dark burgundy that looked entirely different than number 8. In any case, I didnt find the shoes very attractive, but that might be a reflection of the fact that I have never seen the appeal of weejuns.


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

Phil said:


> The shell used in these loafers though wasnt color 8, and it wasnt cigar. It was a very flat and dark burgundy that looked entirely different than number 8.


I wasn't sure whether they were Horween #8 or not, but I agree 100% that they were no where near as vibrant looking as what eventually becomes Alden #8. I agree with your description of their looking "flat."

I was wondering whether perhaps this was Horween #8 that was simply processed in a less gorgeous manner than what Alden does.

I'd find it surprising if BB allowed Alden to sell into PS.

Either way, the only way I'd buy these is if they went on super sale in a few months and I expect they will.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Puffdaddy said:


> ...Either way, the only way I'd buy these is if they went on super sale in a few months and I expect they will.


I agree completely and must say, paying $588 for a pair of Weejuns, shell cord or not, seems almost an unnatural act! :icon_smile_wink:


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## fairway (Sep 23, 2006)

I have often wondered if the raised stitching across the back of the heel, as seen on the PS model, was ever part of the original Weejun make-up. I don't recall any of my Weejuns having that feature.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Phil said:


> I saw these in person today. They are made in Maine apparently. The salesperson seemed to know what he was talking about, and showed me 4 or so pairs from the same line. Paul Stuart is developing a small line of loafers with a small company up in Maine. The construction of these bore no resemblance to any Aldens I have ever seen. From the soles to the internal markings to the stitching. These are not Aldens, unless Alden owns a small artisan loafer making company up in Maine.


The Alden Cape Cod line, made in Maine at the fomer Cole Haan plant, dont resemble the main Alden line we know so well. They are very much like the high quality loafers and mocasins Cole Haan made in the 80s.

No reason why PS may not be having them made by Alden in Maine. I dont think there is any other place left in Maine that can produce that level of quality.

PS has offered several variations on tassell lofaers in cordo in recent years, all fully lined and sourced from Grenson in the UK. I have a pair about 4 yrs old and they are wondeful. I also have a pair of Cole Haans, unlined tassel/kilties purchased about 25 yrs ago, are glove soft and just won't die. I'm assuming they came from the Maine operation now owned by Alden.


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## videocrew (Jun 25, 2007)

I mean, in all honesty, they're cool, but $588? It really is a 10x more expensive Weejun. Granted, shell cordovan, great stuff, but is it the material I want for when I'm wearing my Weejuns? Kicking around at bars, evenings at the beach with no socks, these are the times I want decent-looking footwear that I can ruin (or lose...) and be ticked-off about, not devastated. 

Take a $50 pair of Weejuns, strip that crappy shiny finish off with a couple applications of rubbing alcohol, rehydrate it with some leather conditioner, apply a couple coats of burgundy kiwi polish and never worry about them again. When they get dirty, brush them off, maybe a damp cloth if they're particularly foul. They're fun shoes folks, I don't see how another $538 will make them that much more fun.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

videocrew said:


> I mean, in all honesty, they're cool, but $588? It really is a 10x more expensive Weejun. Granted, shell cordovan, great stuff, but is it the material I want for when I'm wearing my Weejuns? Kicking around at bars, evenings at the beach with no socks, these are the times I want decent-looking footwear that I can ruin (or lose...) and be ticked-off about, not devastated.
> 
> Take a $50 pair of Weejuns, strip that crappy shiny finish off with a couple applications of rubbing alcohol, rehydrate it with some leather conditioner, apply a couple coats of burgundy kiwi polish and never worry about them again. When they get dirty, brush them off, maybe a damp cloth if they're particularly foul. They're fun shoes folks, I don't see how another $538 will make them that much more fun.


Point taken, but some like to own several pairs of loafers, finer ones to wear "in town" with a jacket or blazer, and a pair of throwaways as you describe. I have a pair of cheap late model weeguns that see only barefoot summer use. In fact they are not comfortable with socks, something I've noticed with all unlined shoes I have owned including the old Maine made Cole Haans mentioned in my previous post. The Weeguns are about 5 years old and quite indestructible.

The overly shiny, likley corrected grain finish is somewhat annoying though, tell me more about your process and what the result would look like. A picture would be great.


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## videocrew (Jun 25, 2007)

Literide said:


> Point taken, but some like to own several pairs of loafers, finer ones to wear "in town" with a jacket or blazer, and a pair of throwaways as you describe.


That's where something like the 986 comes into play. I feel like it looks much "dressier" and the ideal thing to wear with a blazer, and everything from khakis to cords to pretty much everything else. I'm not debating the wisdom of the shell cordovan loafer (I'm not looking to get burned as a heretic), just THIS shell cordovan loafer



> The overly shiny, likley corrected grain finish is somewhat annoying though, tell me more about your process and what the result would look like. A picture would be great.


I learned about it on this forum, I think the result looks pretty great, much less plasticky than before. It's still not a 986, but I feel like it looks more like what the Weejun is supposed to be, a smart casual shoe rather than a questionable dress shoe. I'll try and take a decent picture.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Hmm. Just received a targeted e-mail from Paul Stuart specifically advertising these shoes. Here is the picture:


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

qwerty said:


> Hmm. Just received a targeted e-mail from Paul Stuart specifically advertising these shoes. Here is the picture:


That's a fine looking shoe.

"Old school shell cordovan." How 'bout that.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

I have a pair of Alden for BB unlined shell "moccasins" from maybe 15 years ago that look almost identical to those.


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

qwerty said:


> There are also these: https://www.fairmountshoes.com/co_produits.php?pdt=1&rfp=1FA-20-05-06&idl=103&lim=0 for much less than $588. Anyone have experience with them?


No, thanks: they look like some Brit's idea of what "Trad" ought to be.

Stuart really ought to offer those cordo loafers in calf. I'd gladly pay $200+ for a pair of decent American-made, Weejun-styled loafers (especially if they got the old color right) and I'm sure others here would as well.

EGF


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## wolfhound986 (Jun 30, 2007)

fairway said:


> I have often wondered if the raised stitching across the back of the heel, as seen on the PS model, was ever part of the original Weejun make-up. I don't recall any of my Weejuns having that feature.


As far as I know, the Weejun always never did, just the plain strip.

The Bass Logan (which seems to be the current incarnation of the Weejun) does not have that stitching on the heel:

It looks like Zappos has just replenished their inventory...


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## wolfhound986 (Jun 30, 2007)

egadfly said:


> I'd gladly pay $200+ for a pair of decent American-made, Weejun-styled loafers (especially if they got the old color right) and I'm sure others here would as well.
> 
> EGF


I concur, I wish some USA manufacturer would make something in calfskin like this!


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

egadfly said:


> Stuart really ought to offer those cordo loafers in calf. I'd gladly pay $200+ for a pair of decent American-made, Weejun-styled loafers (especially if they got the old color right) and I'm sure others here would as well.


If they did and offered them in a B width, I'd definitely buy a pair.


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## videocrew (Jun 25, 2007)

StevenRocks said:


> If they did and offered them in a B width, I'd definitely buy a pair.


Got your credit card at the ready?
https://www.russellmoccasin.com/shoes_loafers/loafers_classicmocloaf.html
MTM calf penny loafers, get them with a single-sole and no lining for $10 less. Made in Wisconsin.


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

*This really works !*



videocrew said:


> I mean, in all honesty, they're cool, but $588? It really is a 10x more expensive Weejun. Granted, shell cordovan, great stuff, but is it the material I want for when I'm wearing my Weejuns? Kicking around at bars, evenings at the beach with no socks, these are the times I want decent-looking footwear that I can ruin (or lose...) and be ticked-off about, not devastated.
> 
> Take a $50 pair of Weejuns, strip that crappy shiny finish off with a couple applications of rubbing alcohol, rehydrate it with some leather conditioner, apply a couple coats of burgundy kiwi polish and never worry about them again. When they get dirty, brush them off, maybe a damp cloth if they're particularly foul. They're fun shoes folks, I don't see how another $538 will make them that much more fun.


I have always wondered about the cheesey varnish looking finish on Weeejuns. Figured that we were just stuck with it.

A new pair arrived last week, and when I got them back from the cobbler for good heels, I figured, what the hell. But alcohol??

Works like a charm ! Alcohol strips off the varnish looking finish. After leather conditioner, and 3 coats of Kiwi, they look superb.

Everyone else may have been aware of the technique that Videocrew uses, but it was new to me.

Many thanks !


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Has anyone else managed to view these shoes in person? Other than Tom Rath, I mean.

DD


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## Ole Hickory (Jan 12, 2008)

I saw a member and local super tradist shuffling down the street yesterday in a pair of these- in an ancient looking seersucker suit. I spoke and asked him who made them and he said "Ansewn, in Maine." He is usually "spot on" and less than modest about it.


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