# Clothing Illustrations From or Inspired by the 20s to the 60s



## Fading Fast

I stumbled across this illustration - a Coke ad from 1957 - and thought it would be neat to attempt to get a thread going on illustrations of Ivy clothes (kinda like what Flanderian is doing with Vintage Esquire illustrations over on the other side of the house).

And, if not, this one with its OCBD, ski and V-neck sweaters, khakis, argyle socks and Weejuns is fun just by itself. Also, clearly, Coke wanted to position itself as cool, so this is more evidence that the cool kids of the '50s were dressing in Ivy.

Many years ago, I dated a blonde who said a black turtleneck is a blonde's best friend - no argument from me.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I stumbled across this illustration - a Coke ad from 1957 - and thought it would be neat to attempt to get a thread going on illustrations of Ivy clothes (kinda like what Flanderian is doing with Vintage Esquire illustrations over on the other side of the house).
> 
> And, if not, this one with its OCBD, ski and V-neck sweaters, khakis, argyle socks and Weejuns is fun just by itself. Also, clearly, Coke wanted to position itself as cool, so this is more evidence that the cool kids of the '50s were dressing in Ivy.
> 
> Many years ago, I dated a blonde who said a black turtleneck is blonde's best friend - no argument from me.
> 
> View attachment 26840


Great illustration!

Thanks!


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## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> Ah, '57. I remember it well, being a god-awful gorgeous 12 year-old and all. But I think there's rum in them thar Cokes. The kneeling guy who's way too close to the fire has spilled a box of little square things. Quaaludes I think.


Proving that you can take the boy out of New Jersey, but not New Jersey out of the boy, when my girlfriend and I go to the racetrack (1st clue New Jersey's still in the boy), we bring along a flask of rum to spike up the Cokes (2nd clue).

Sitting in Grandstand seats at Belmont adding Captain Morgan to track-purchased Cokes is not something to be proud of, but it is very New Jersey.


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## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> Many years ago, I dated a blonde who said a black turtleneck is blonde's best friend - no argument from me.


That's god's truth... and it doesn't matter if a woman is big or small, a black turtleneck does the job.


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## Fading Fast

Tab-collar shirt, sack suit, macintosh casually draped over one arm and nubile blonde over the other - flying ain't what it used to be. 








N.B. The lining on her raincoat is very cool.


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## Doctor Damage

^ That painting reminds me of many such images which appeared in early issues of Playboy illustrating the exciting single playboy lifestyle or something like that. It's amazing how ubiquitous Pan Am was at one point, now only old-timers know the brand.


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## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ That painting reminds me of many such images which appeared in early issues of Playboy illustrating the exciting single playboy lifestyle or something like that. It's amazing how ubiquitous Pan Am was at one point, now only old-timers know the brand.


As a little kid in the late '60s, I have a vague memory of somebody in our neighborhood taking an airplane trip - it was still a big deal back then, at least in my not fancy-or-wealthy town - and seeing that little blue Pan Am bag and thinking how cool it was.


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## Flanderian

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ That painting reminds me of many such images which appeared in early issues of Playboy illustrating the exciting single playboy lifestyle or something like that. It's amazing how ubiquitous Pan Am was at one point, now only old-timers know the brand.





Fading Fast said:


> As a little kid in the late '60s, I have a vague memory of somebody in our neighborhood taking an airplane trip - it was still a big deal back then, at least in my not fancy-or-wealthy town - and seeing that little blue Pan Am bag and thinking how cool it was.


If you've not seen it, you might enjoy Spielberg's "small" 2002 film, _*Catch Me if You Can* _with DiCaprio as the young protagonist. Just a well made, solid and entertaining film set in the era. Fine cast and excellent performances throughout, but perhaps most astonishing, it's largely true.

Obviously, I'm a big fan.


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## Fading Fast

⇧ haven't seen it, but will be on the outlook now - thank you for the tip.


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## rl1856

Fading Fast said:


> I stumbled across this illustration - a Coke ad from 1957 - and thought it would be neat to attempt to get a thread going on illustrations of Ivy clothes (kinda like what Flanderian is doing with Vintage Esquire illustrations over on the other side of the house).
> 
> And, if not, this one with its OCBD, ski and V-neck sweaters, khakis, argyle socks and Weejuns is fun just by itself. Also, clearly, Coke wanted to position itself as cool, so this is more evidence that the cool kids of the '50s were dressing in Ivy.
> 
> Many years ago, I dated a blonde who said a black turtleneck is a blonde's best friend - no argument from me.
> 
> View attachment 26840


Inspiration for Don and Betty Draper.


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## Fading Fast

Love the collar pin, plus the length of the suit jackets - and their button stances - on the men in the background.

Methinks the young, comely lady likes the collar pin as well. Kudos to the artist as he or she captured a look that says she wants something and it's not just his collar pin.

P.S. Can an eyebrow really arch to that extreme?


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## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> P.S. Can an eyebrow really arch to that extreme?


Sure, if the cosmetic surgeon got carried away. The eyebrow-halfway-up-the-forehead look is common among female San Francisco socialites past age 50. In fact, the "permanently surprised" look seems to be obligatory at swanky functions such as opening night at the opera and so on.

This reminds me of what comedian Stewart Francis said: "I used to be a cosmetic surgeon. That raised some eyebrows."


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## Flanderian




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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

My uncle flew for Pan Am in the 70s. He was killed in a FANG F-106 crash in '77 so I missed out on all the debauched stories! Great guy, balls of steel, a pilot's pilot. 

What I gather from the ads displayed is that good design is timeless. None of these garments would look very much out of place today on a well dressed man or woman.

Cheers, 

BSR


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 26917


Good one, love the setting and skyline as much as the clothes. Also, great example of how you can't go wrong matching camel and grey.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Good one, love the setting and skyline as much as the clothes. Also, great example of how you can't go wrong matching camel and grey.


Yes, I think the artwork is rather nice. Your thread has started me on a nostalgia binge for the era. I spent part of last evening watching old episodes of Peter Gunn. Note the Chrysler Imperial in the opening scene. It was actually a car of remarkable quality for the era. The language and attitudes of the era and the assumptions underlying them are very different from contemporary society. It was a time before some major social shifts.






As a guy who haunts the Internet, I've stumbled upon a lot. This is from a series, and I think both the art work and style rather nice. Kinda like the grownup side of trad.


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## August West

^^^That last ad is hilarious. Must have been some really good whiskey... the one guy couldn't even wait to put some clothes on before getting a taste.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Yes, I think the artwork is rather nice. Your thread has started me on a nostalgia binge for the era. I spent part of last evening watching old episodes of Peter Gunn. Note the Chrysler Imperial in the opening scene. It was actually a car of remarkable quality for the era. The language and attitudes of the era and the assumptions underlying them are very different from contemporary society. It was a time before some major social shifts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a guy who haunts the Internet, I've stumbled upon a lot. This is from a series, and I think both the art work and style rather nice. Kinda like the grownup side of trad.
> 
> View attachment 26927


Funny, unrelated to this thread, several weeks ago, I, too, started watching some "Peter Gunn" episodes. Growing up in the late '60s/'70s, I hadn't seen the show, almost at all, in reruns, so they're fresh to me.

However, so far, I'm not overwhelmed. Yes, the style is very cool - and I can appreciated how it was super-cool at the time - but the stories are pretty conventional, at least the five or six episodes I've seen so far, and the budget seems to have been about $150 per episode. That said, I want to stay with it a bit more to see if it develops or I see it in a better light.

In the town I grew up in, very few people could afford the fancy cars, but there were a few Cadillacs and Lincolns (the doctor, the bank owner, etc.) and one, yes one, Chrysler Imperial, which was a bit different - chunkier and quirkier, but definitely luxurious. As a kid, I thought it was cool and a lot cooler than our old Ford Galaxy 500.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Funny, unrelated to this thread, several weeks ago, I, too, started watching some "Peter Gunn" episodes. Growing up in the late '60s/'70s, I hadn't seen the show, almost at all, in reruns, so they're fresh to me.
> 
> However, so far, I'm not overwhelmed. Yes, the style is very cool - and I can appreciated how it was super-cool at the time - but the stories are pretty conventional, at least the five or six episodes I've seen so far, and the budget seems to have been about $150 per episode. That said, I want to stay with it a bit more to see if it develops or I see it in a better light.
> 
> In the town I grew up in, very few people could afford the fancy cars, but there were a few Cadillacs and Lincolns (the doctor, the bank owner, etc.) and one, yes one, Chrysler Imperial, which was a bit different - chunkier and quirkier, but definitely luxurious. As a kid, I thought it was cool and a lot cooler than our old Ford Galaxy 500.


To call the scripts and production values run of the mill for the genre and era is a kindness. But what it's really about is the cool, the style and the unflappable nature of Stevens' Gunn. (Though I personally always had a warm spot for Bernardi's Jacoby. Was surprised to remember the Character's name after 55 years!)


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## Flanderian

Trad candy!


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Trad candy!
> 
> View attachment 26941


Having grown up in NJ (although, I attended the not-Ivy, quite-pedestrian Rutgers University), I was in that store in the '80s. What can't come through in the ads - or the ads for J.Press, which also felt as I will describe - is the vibe or atmosphere of these stores.

Today, almost all men's clothing stores feel "salesy," with some very high-end ones feeling aloof or snooty. But these traditional Ivy stores felt neither - they felt more like an old comfortable men's club that had decided to run a clothing store on the side.

I've never been a member of an old men's club, but for business and as a guest of friends, I have been in many of them. Almost all of them project a similar aura: old money, old-school, traditional values, a bit worn at the edges (almost saying: "we could afford to spruce up, but why?") and a familiarity between customers and staff that comes from not only long-time relationships, but generational relationships ("I fit your dad in his first suit"). Even the air smelled different - like old wool or something.


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## Fading Fast

Not so sure about the suit on the guy at the counter, might have been better had the fabric been turned into a sport coat.


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## poppies

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 26951
> 
> 
> Not so sure about the suit on the guy at the counter, might have been better had the fabric been turned into a sport coat.


And what a sport coat it would be!


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## Fading Fast

poppies said:


> And what a sport coat it would be!


Agreed, too much as a suit, but perfect for a loud-and-proud '50s sport coat.


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## Fading Fast

(no idea if it's from the '50, but) Love the bold herringbone, collar bar & knit tie:


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Having grown up in NJ (although, I attended the not-Ivy, quite-pedestrian Rutgers University), I was in that store in the '80s. What can't come through in the ads - or the ads for J.Press, which also felt as I will describe - is the vibe or atmosphere of these stores.
> 
> Today, almost all men's clothing stores feel "salesy," with some very high-end ones feeling aloof or snooty. But these traditional Ivy stores felt neither - they felt more like an old comfortable men's club that had decided to run a clothing store on the side.
> 
> I've never been a member of an old men's club, but for business and as a guest of friends, I have been in many of them. Almost all of them project a similar aura: old money, old-school, traditional values, a bit worn at the edges (almost saying: "we could afford to spruce up, but why?") and a familiarity between customers and staff that comes from not only long-time relationships, but generational relationships ("I fit your dad in his first suit"). Even the air smelled different - like old wool or something.


What a wonderful, accurate and evocative description. You've captured it perfectly!



Fading Fast said:


> (no idea if it's from the '50, but) Love the bold herringbone, collar bar & knit tie:
> View attachment 26984


Great illustration, and great outfit.

I think it must be between '55-'65. Only thing that fits all the style elements.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I've never been a member of an old men's club,


Does Medicare count?


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Does Medicare count?


I'll join that one, if 65 is the number, in eleven years - the only club that would have me and that's only because there's no approval process, other than just don't die beforehand.

Thank you for your comments in the other above post.


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## Fading Fast

Price, style and overall look have me guessing late '50s and from a modest priced retailer:


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## FLMike

Flanderian said:


> Trad candy!
> 
> View attachment 26941


Four OCBDs for $15.95. Beat that, Brooks Brothers!


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Price, style and overall look have me guessing late '50s and from a modest priced retailer:
> View attachment 27020


Good guess, I think!

And used the same guys as models that Fellows did!


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## Flanderian

Into the mix. When Trad was fashion, and I was young. Note the fancy vest on gent in background, and sportshirt with tie on main subject. -


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## Fading Fast

⇧ I'm seeing some really good natural shoulders.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I'm seeing some really good natural shoulders.


Possibly "The King" of natural shoulders -


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## Fading Fast

⇧ Maybe it's because of his recent passing, but the model has a real echo of George Bush Senior, not only in his features, but in the way he holds his, somewhat, lanky body. And, yes, awesome natural shoulder.


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## Fading Fast

Can't get much more '50s Ivy than the gray flannel suit, but not in love with the illustration (Apparel Arts has ruined me for lesser illustrators) and the more modern pic on the left looks terrible:









Love the cover of the novel that nailed the tagline:








It's a good read and was made into a good movie, with a man who could really wear a grey flannel suit.


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## August West

I am loving this thread! Keep 'em coming if you can. You guys must have a google gold account or something; way better ivy content than I ever run across.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Maybe it's because of his recent passing, but the model has a real echo of George Bush Senior, not only in his features, but in the way he holds his, somewhat, lanky body. And, yes, awesome natural shoulder.


I'd always read that President Bush was a Southwick man. And at one time Southwick did make one of the nicest shoulders around. I've got Paul Stuart catalogs from the time when Ivy was still their lodestone, and in photos including both the Southwick that used to be represented about as much as the private label Sammy's they sell, the Southwick's shoulders always looked a bit sweeter than the Sammy's.



Fading Fast said:


> Can't get much more '50s Ivy than the gray flannel suit, but not in love with the illustration (Apparel Arts has ruined me for lesser illustrators) and the more modern pic on the left looks terrible:
> View attachment 27040
> 
> 
> Love the cover of the novel that nailed the tagline:
> View attachment 27041
> 
> It's a good read and was made into a good movie, with a man who could really wear a grey flannel suit.
> View attachment 27042


I'm OK with the illustration, less so with the replica goods I think they're advertising. And I suspect there'd be some push-back on whether the shoulders illustrated and photographed are actually natural shoulders. But that which Peck is wearing is certainly sweet tailoring, irrespective.


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## Flanderian

Mad Men -


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## Fading Fast

⇧ Very Don Draper

⇩ Very '50s (love how the artist captured the bowtie and sweater on the guy fumbling the beer)


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Very Don Draper
> 
> ⇩ Very '50s (love how the artist captured the bowtie and sweater on the guy fumbling the beer)
> View attachment 27061


What a cool illustration! Thank you!

I do remember days like that while waiting on a corner for a bus. Very naturalistic and apt.

Did you notice that gent in the blue coat bears more than a passing resemblance to -


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## Fading Fast

⇧ had not, but good call.


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## Fading Fast

Cool kicks.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 27078
> 
> Cool kicks.


Nice!


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## Fading Fast

As we know, Ivy originated in the Ivy League colleges which is why illustrations and movies about colleges from that era are a great source of information about Ivy-style clothes:








Love the sweater on the guy on the left. Do you think those are grey flannels or grey chinos (which I don't think were common at all then) he's also wearing?

And, note the square-bottom (I assume) knit tie on the kid on the right.

Last thought - a cake, not an easy thing to ship; mom, how 'bout cookies next time?


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> As we know, Ivy originated in the Ivy League colleges which is why illustrations and movies about colleges from that era are a great source of information about Ivy-style clothes:
> View attachment 27192
> 
> Love the sweater on the guy on the left. Do you think those are grey flannels or grey chinos (which I don't think were common at all then) he's also wearing?
> 
> And, note the square-bottom (I assume) knit tie on the kid on the right.
> 
> Last thought - a cake, not an easy thing to ship; mom, how 'bout cookies next time?


Great illustration!

Grey chinos? Hmm . . . :icon_scratch:

Remember Rooster Ties?

Their solid knit versions were ubiquitous!










And then we had their Ruffler line! 



















If I didn't have the red one in the center, I had one very similar. And I remember a large scale Batik print in earth tones of which I was very fond.


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## Fading Fast

⇧ Had several Rooster ties myself.

The guy checking his watch and the teller would look perfectly fine (sans the hat for the watch guy) dressed that way today:


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Had several Rooster ties myself.
> 
> The guy checking his watch and the teller would look perfectly fine (sans the hat for the watch guy) dressed that way today:
> View attachment 27206


Nice!


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## Fading Fast

Two small things of note here - the high rise of his chinos and his saddle shoes:








Oh, one more thing, her (to scale) 10" waist.


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## eagle2250

^^Reflective of times when they still knew how to properly craft a pair of men's chinos so they might come up to one's natural waist!


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## ran23

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Had several Rooster ties myself.
> 
> The guy checking his watch and the teller would look perfectly fine (sans the hat for the watch guy) dressed that way today:
> View attachment 27206


Or is the guy using his watch to catch a glimpse of her ankle?


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## Barrister & Solicitor

Fading Fast said:


> Two small things of note here - the high rise of his chinos and his saddle shoes:
> View attachment 27226
> 
> Oh, one more thing, her (to scale) 10" waist.


These aren't saddle shoes: they're white runners on which he dropped some paint.


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## Fading Fast

Like the athletic cardigan and the saddle shoes - plus rolled-up-bottom jeans, a very '50s teenager thing:


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## gamma68

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration!
> 
> Grey chinos? Hmm . . . :icon_scratch:
> 
> Remember Rooster Ties?
> 
> Their solid knit versions were ubiquitous!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And then we had their Ruffler line!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I didn't have the red one in the center, I had one very similar. And I remember a large scale Batik print in earth tones of which I was very fond.


A bit of a thread sidetrack, but I have several vintage knit Rooster ties. I'm awaiting a suitable occasion to wear this wonderful example:


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## Flanderian

gamma68 said:


> A bit of a thread sidetrack, but I have several vintage knit Rooster ties. I'm awaiting a suitable occasion to wear this wonderful example:
> View attachment 27268
> View attachment 27269
> View attachment 27270


Cool!

These ties were a deliberate counterpoint to the sedate neckwear of the era. Intended largely for a younger clientele as something fun. I wore mine with less formal outfits. Worked well with summer cotton poplin suits, and some flannel blazers.

Once actually had a black flannel blazer cut and finished very casually. More useful than might be thought. And a colorful Ruffler tie on a more casual outing could be entertaining.


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## Fading Fast

Fun just 'cause it's a men's haberdashery:








For obviously reasons, we tend to focus on the great haberdasheries of the period, but even into the early '80s (when I became aware of Ivy), there were plenty of small, no-real-name places like this still hanging on.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Fun just 'cause it's a men's haberdashery:
> View attachment 27299
> 
> For obviously reasons, we tend to focus on the great haberdasheries of the period, but even into the early '80s (when I became aware of Ivy), there were plenty of small, no-real-name places like this still hanging on.


And sorely missed!


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## Fading Fast

Looks like a Norwegian sweater interpreted as a button vest.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Looks like a Norwegian sweater interpreted as a button vest.
> View attachment 27330


Where can I order that sweater!?!? :amazing:


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## eagle2250

^^Indeed, that cardigan vest design is a decidedly handsome garment...a very versatile addition to the wardrobe!


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## Fading Fast

Love how he "calmed" the beautiful pattern suit down with a simple white shirt and quiet striped tie. While I'd have gone with black, I think the brown slip-ons add to the somewhat casual vibe (for the time) of the outfit.


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## Fading Fast

OCBD - check
Rep tie - check
Striped blazer - check
Pocket Square - check
Khakis - check
Penny loafers (I think) - check









And this is just silly


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> OCBD - check
> Rep tie - check
> Striped blazer - check
> Pocket Square - check
> Khakis - check
> Penny loafers (I think) - check
> View attachment 27405
> 
> 
> And this is just silly
> View attachment 27404


Charming! Thank you!

Very true to the era, except that in that era, the young man would likely be handling something other than a book!


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## roman totale XVII

Great illustration. I’d say they are Venetians though, not pennies


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## Fading Fast

A different style of illustration, but cool in its own way. Any guesses as to the material of the sport coat at the far left?


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## Fading Fast

Saw this on the Ivy Style blog today (it's an interesting post domestic-cat-remembering-clipper-craft-main-street-ivy-clothier.html):








I'm usually a fan of anthropomorphism, but I find this creepy or, at least ,off putting. Love the outfit though (pin collar, nice touch).


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A different style of illustration, but cool in its own way. Any guesses as to the material of the sport coat at the far left?
> View attachment 27422


Either chenille or Harris Tweed! But I think I'll go with Harris Tweed. 



Fading Fast said:


> Saw this on the Ivy Style blog today (it's an interesting post domestic-cat-remembering-clipper-craft-main-street-ivy-clothier.html):
> 
> View attachment 27423
> 
> I'm usually a fan of anthropomorphism, but I find this creepy or, at least ,off putting. Love the outfit though (pin collar, nice touch).


I once drank too much and had a dream about cat people, is that what you mean? 

Seriously though, both illustrations are so perfect as stylistic examples of illustrations from the period, and combining critter and human characteristics was popular at the time.

After all, it's not as if there hadn't been enough inspiration -


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Saw this on the Ivy Style blog today (it's an interesting post domestic-cat-remembering-clipper-craft-main-street-ivy-clothier.html):
> View attachment 27423
> 
> I'm usually a fan of anthropomorphism, but I find this creepy or, at least ,off putting. Love the outfit though (pin collar, nice touch).


There is an old black and white movie out, Titled "The Cat People." As I recall, it really was a bit of a creepy film!


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## Fading Fast

The odd thing, as I touched on in my post, is that, in general, I like when animals are given human traits in ads, shows, etc., but somehow, that large tiger head coming out of those suits doesn't look right to me. And I'm a big fan of Tony from Kelloggs and the Exxon Tiger.


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## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> There is an old black and white movie out, Titled "The Cat People." As I recall, it really was a bit of a creepy film!


And an equally creepy 1982 re-make. (But one that convinced me I *really* needed to get to know Natasia Kinski! )








Fading Fast said:


> The odd thing, as I touched on in my post, is that, in general, I like when animals are given human traits in ads, shows, etc., but somehow, that large tiger head coming out of those suits doesn't look right to me. And I'm a big fan of Tony from Kelloggs and the Exxon Tiger.


But hopefully you never suggested a "Tiger in your tank!"


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## Fading Fast

Since it's an ad from the period (the site I found it on said 1960), its mid-century modern vibe is not recreated but of the time:









And another one of this style of illustration (guy in the far back looks like he has a tab collar on - nice detail by the artist, if I'm correct):


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Since it's an ad from the period (the site I found it on said 1960), its mid-century modern vibe is not recreated but of the time:
> View attachment 27444
> 
> 
> And another one of this style of illustration (guy in the far back looks like he has a tab collar on - nice detail by the artist, if I'm correct):
> View attachment 27445


Nice!

The office plan in the top illustration strongly reminds me of an office I worked in in the early '70's. I was one of the minions out in the open bay. A lot of funny stories from that office and the characters that populated it.

One quiet and otherwise unremarkable guy was actually a skeet champion. He had *3,* 300 patches! Meaning he broke 300 consecutive clays without a miss! I believe that's 12 consecutive perfect rounds! And he accomplished this 3 times!


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## Fading Fast

Not really that much interesting going on clothes-wise (other than the high-rise pants and white bucks) and looks '60s, not '50s, but still a fun illustration:









And more in the spirit of the thread (slimmer suiting done with better proportions than today's slim suits):


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not really that much interesting going on clothes-wise (other than the high-rise pants and white bucks) and looks '60s, not '50s, but still a fun illustration:
> View attachment 27499
> 
> 
> And more in the spirit of the thread (slimmer suiting done with better proportions than today's slim suits):
> View attachment 27500


Very much so!


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## Fading Fast

OCBD (with a great roll), rep tie, striped jacket, grey dress trousers: 









A bit of a Troy Donahue echo from "Rome Adventure:"


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> OCBD (with a great roll), rep tie, striped jacket, grey dress trousers:
> View attachment 27529
> 
> 
> A bit of a Troy Donahue echo from "Rome Adventure:"
> View attachment 27530


Great illustration and photo from the era.

But I remember looking in the mirror as a youngster and seeing a visage that could never measure up to young Mr. Troy!


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration and photo from the era.
> 
> But I remember looking in the mirror as a youngster and seeing a visage that could never measure up to young Mr. Troy!


The man had his moment. A middling talent, but the right look at the right time. His and Tab Hunter movies provide great looks at Ivy clothes at their peak.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

While the guy's not front and center, what you see of his suit has a bit of Ivy rumple-ness to it that (having lived in Boston for years) reflects how those suits are worn by the old Ivy guys.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> While the guy's not front and center, what you see of his suit has a bit of Ivy rumple-ness to it that (having lived in Boston for years) reflects how those suits are worn by the old Ivy guys.
> View attachment 27588


For sissies! -


----------



## Fading Fast

Grey sack suit, white OCBD (w/ decent collar roll) and navy-and-red rep tie (shouldn't she be wearing pearls and not that "loud" gold thing around her neck?):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Grey sack suit, white OCBD (w/ decent collar roll) and navy-and-red rep tie (shouldn't she be wearing pearls and not that "loud" gold thing around her neck?):
> View attachment 27636


Nope! Had a girlfriend during that era, and chunky gold-toned jewelry was quite fashionable as a more casual alternative to the refinement of pearls. The pearls were typically saved for more formal ensembles.

Memory is a funny thing: I may not be able to recall something from last week, but 50+ years later I can still remember the smell and taste of her lipstick.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Nope! Had a girlfriend during that era, and chunky gold-toned jewelry was quite fashionable as a more casual alternative to the refinement of pearls. The pearls were typically saved for more formal ensembles.
> 
> Memory is a funny thing: I may not be able to recall something from last week, but 50+ years later I can still remember the smell and taste of her lipstick.


I hear ya, I can remember many details about old girlfriends from (in my case) 30 yrs ago, but not always their names. And that's not a guy-being-a-jerk thing / it's about a "I can remember the outfit she wore to the Springsteen concert and her smile" thing, but maybe not her name. Like most young guys, I dated a lot - leaving my memories ones more of impressions and one-off specifics than all the just-the-facts details.

Good insight on the jewelry preferences of the period - thank you.


----------



## Fading Fast

While he's off to the left, he's pretty darn Ivy perfect: navy sack suit, white OCBD, navy-and-red rep tie and tan Mackintosh casually tossed over his shoulder (oh, and blonde wife).








Also, based on the angle of the sunlight and having consulted meteorological records, I'm guessing it's about 1958 .


----------



## Fading Fast

Love the big herringbone pattern in the overcoat draped over his arm:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Love the big herringbone pattern in the overcoat draped over his arm:
> View attachment 27707


Very nice!


----------



## Dcr5468

Southern ivy

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e8/16/7e/e8167e2e2d65dfa3a256c9553fe8b62d.jpg

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Dcr5468

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Fading Fast

Dcr5468 said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


When I started building a professional wardrobe in the '80s, I owned several Haspel poplin suits - stone, tan, olive, navy and medium grey Haspel's were all in my closet at some point.

On Wall Street, they were the accepted summer suit - the olive was probably the most popular.


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## Fading Fast

Looks like some by-the-number sack suits; although, I've seen better sack shoulders than these.


----------



## Dcr5468

Dcr5468 said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I find the trimmer jacket with full cut trousers interesting.

Until very recently the only Haspel was full cut/sack

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Flanderian

Dcr5468 said:


> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Great ad! Early '50's, I think.


----------



## Fading Fast

Based on '50s TV shows like "Father Knows Best" and magazine ads and illustrations from the period, teenagers in the '50s were dressing all over the map from jeans and T-shirts to suits and ties and everything in between.


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## Fading Fast

I want the suit and the overcoat - the cut of the suit is incredible.








(from 1957)


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I want the suit and the overcoat - the cut of the suit is incredible.
> View attachment 27810
> 
> (from 1957)


Wow! Great illustration!

Thanks.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wow! Great illustration!
> 
> Thanks.


It's awesome isn't it? The suit is incredible.


----------



## Fading Fast

I hesitated to post this as it's just not up to the standards of attractiveness set by the prior illustration.


----------



## Oldsarge

As requested . . .


----------



## Dcr5468

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dcr5468

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dcr5468

Sears from their prime









The first 2 were not have but sears had some 3/2 jackets

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ some serious reverse pleats - must have been in at the time.


----------



## Fading Fast

Why this pic? Because of her super-cool desert boots:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Why this pic? Because of her super-cool desert boots:
> View attachment 27887


Very nice work, I believe.

Still wear ensembles not entirely different.


----------



## Fading Fast

Ivy 101 on the window mannequin:


----------



## Fading Fast

Love the fit and drape of his suit. What I've noticed since I started posting for this thread is that a lot of '50s advertising had bordering-on-leering looks - men at women and (as seen here - although, not the best example) women at men, that can read a bit creepy to our modern view, but must have been very successful (or thought successful) as it was done so often back then.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Love the fit and drape of his suit. What I've noticed since I started posting for this thread is that a lot of '50s advertising had bordering-on-leering looks - men at women and (as seen here - although, not the best example) women at men, that can read a bit creepy to our modern view, but must have been very successful (or thought successful) as it was done so often back then.
> View attachment 27935


Me too! Would be delighted to wear it!


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm guessing an OCBD, Shetland, chinos (thought maybe cords, but don't think so), argyle socks (tough to tell, but maybe) and penny loafers:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm guessing an OCBD, Shetland, chinos (thought maybe cords, but don't think so), argyle socks (tough to tell, but maybe) and penny loafers:
> View attachment 28017


Cords! Can tell by the drape. 

Another great illustration! The _Saturday Evening Post_ was deservedly known for their superb cover art.

As a boy, with TV in its infancy, and before the cornucopia of any other electronic mass media, publications such as this composed a significant portion of American life. Part of my duties as a boy included purchasing the weekly copy of *Life* magazine for our family. And it was a awaited with joyful anticipation by us all.

In late adolescence I can recall needing a shoe repair and deciding to wait for it while seated in one of the half-high cubicles. Looking for entertainment, I picked up a copy of the _Saturday Evening Post_ and began reading a fictional story that seemed promising. Shortly I was engrossed, and was disappointed I didn't have enough time to finish it.

It was a half century before I finally had the sense to purchase a copy of Charles Portis' marvelous _True Grit _and read it from beginning to end.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Funny, I watched "Dark Passage" form 1947 yesterday and there's a San Francisco street scene where a Florsheim store goes by. And, unbelievably, I was able to find it in a still from the movie:








It seemed like such a long shot, I almost didn't look for a pic of it.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Fading Fast said:


> I'm guessing an OCBD, Shetland, chinos (thought maybe cords, but don't think so), argyle socks (tough to tell, but maybe) and penny loafers:
> View attachment 28017


Except the argyle socks, this is close to the way I dressed the four years of High School (usually no sweater needed being San Diego desert). Never thought of as Trad, just what was expected and comfortable.

Love this as clearly expresses a story with one image. Not sure he liked them or not, looks undecided.


----------



## DaveTrader

I love the whole 1950s aesthetic. There was a lot of style that just seemed effortless. I've always felt that I was born in the wrong era and that I would have fit nicely (as a young man, at least) in the 50s. 

As I've had an affinity for this era my entire life, I found it interesting that when I would discuss clothing with the men that actually lived this era, not one even showed the slightest interest in style or their clothing in general, and many of them were very well-dressed in their day.

For instance, a good friend of mine passed away about a year ago. He was a retired college professor - Cornell & MIT graduate - that taught physics at a major university. He received his PhD in 1952. Having seen photos of him in his heyday, he was a spot-on Trad man. But when I asked him about his suits, shoes, etc., he looked at me as if I were an alien. To him, they were just clothes. Suits, shirts, and ties. Not something you thought about, just something you had to buy. 

And it was like this with the other men that I knew that lived this era. It's as if the "industry" styled them and they just bought "the uniform".


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Funny, I watched "Dark Passage" form 1947 yesterday and there's a San Francisco street scene where a Florsheim store goes by. And, unbelievably, I was able to find it in a still from the movie:
> View attachment 28025
> 
> It seemed like such a long shot, I almost didn't look for a pic of it.


Cool still!

Florsheim shoe stores were once ubiquitous. Every city had one, many, several. My first familiarity with them was as a "better" make of shoe. And it was! My first purchase there was an occasion as a youngster.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Cool still!
> 
> Florsheim shoe stores were once ubiquitous. Every city had one, many, several. My first familiarity with them was as a "better" make of shoe. And it was! My first purchase there was an occasion as a youngster.


Probably because it was ubiquitous, but my first "good" shoe was a Florsheim Imperial bought in about '86 for ~$120 which seemed like a million for a shoe back then.

I wore the hell out of those shoes and finally had to throw them away (they were not thrift-able by then) in about '05. I babied them in the early years and then used them as my bad weather shoe in the later years - I got way, way more than my $120 worth out of that shoe.

And I bought them at the Florsheim store in Herald Square (right next to the Macy's store we see each year in the parade) that, at the time, sold more shoes than any other in the entire Florsheim chain (they were very proud of that fact). Of course, it's no longer there.


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with the collegiate look:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Probably because it was ubiquitous, but my first "good" shoe was a Florsheim Imperial bought in about '86 for ~$120 which seemed like a million for a shoe back then.
> 
> I wore the hell out of those shoes and finally had to throw them away (they were not thrift-able by then) in about '05. I babied them in the early years and then used them as my bad weather shoe in the later years - I got way, way more than my $120 worth out of that shoe.
> 
> And I bought them at the Florsheim store in Herald Square (right next to the Macy's store we see each year in the parade) that, at the time, sold more shoes than any other in the entire Florsheim chain (they were very proud of that fact). Of course, it's no longer there.


Gosh, you didn't even get 20 years out of them! 

I find it terribly sad that so many places and institutions of my youth have gone the way of your Florsheim store, though I know such attachments are romantic and a product of my dotage. Still even in youth, I noticed how many in Europe more greatly valued the places of the past, and history in general.

The ignorance, no . . . . *hostility* of any, but particularly this, generation toward history is appalling. History is us!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 28058


Gee, that poor guy looks like I feel!


----------



## Fading Fast

Love that there was a time when you could wear a bowtie without it being a statement.


----------



## Ensiferous

Great thread!

1955:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Love that there was a time when you could wear a bowtie without it being a statement.
> View attachment 28073


Very nice!


----------



## Fading Fast

Some of these types of styles popped up in "Mad Men" from time to time:


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Love that there was a time when you could wear a bowtie without it being a statement.
> View attachment 28073


+1 and when fedora's were worn regularly.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Some of these types of styles popped up in "Mad Men" from time to time:
> View attachment 28085


Great illustration!

The fancy vest was a colorful counterpoint to what was otherwise often a very sedate ensemble. Always liked them. Still do.

Both outfits look good, but I particularly note the one on the left, corduroy jacket, bright wool vest and flannels. Doesn't get much better than this. Wonder if the vest is tweed? Tweed and corduroy have such a wonderful affinity.


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## Fading Fast

Looks more '30s than '50s to me (but not sure), but nice illustration regardless:


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Looks more '30s than '50s to me (but not sure), but nice illustration regardless:
> View attachment 28101


*Marvelous* illustration! And I agree with your dating, if for nothing but the women's hairstyles illustrated on the magazine covers. However, in real life, it still would have been common to find a young fellow dressed very much like this even in the early '50's.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Just a reminder that illustrations are not photographs and should not be considered useful guides to fit or proportions.


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## 16412

Ensiferous said:


> Great thread!
> 
> 1955:


Liked the red blazers. It seems like they disappeared in the late seventies or early eighties.


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## Flanderian

This one needs its own soundtrack -


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## peterc

Re: post 126. Love the baggy chinos. Wearing a pair now. Vintage RL, with the flap on the back left pocket.


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## Fading Fast

peterc said:


> Re: post 126. Love the baggy chinos. Wearing a pair now. Vintage RL, with the flap on the back left pocket.


Having grown upon the '70s and been a college student in the early '80s, chinos were baggy and got baggier through the '90s. It wasn't until the '00s that the sliming began. I've adjusted, but for most of my life, chinos were baggy.


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## Fading Fast

Cover of "The Saturday Evening Post" from 1950. Which, RE his outfit, shows that one of the Ivy "uniforms" had already been established quite early in the '50s.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Cover of "The Saturday Evening Post" from 1950. Which, RE his outfit, shows that one of the Ivy "uniforms" had already been established quite early in the '50s.
> View attachment 28134


Charming illustration!


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## peterc

I wish I knew how to/had the time/etc. to post some of my Sat. Ev. Post mags. I have at least one with an uncollected J.D. Salinger story in it. Very proud of that.


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## Fading Fast

Looks like a classic grey sack suit:


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## Fading Fast

Patch pockets, no darts, but looks like only two buttons:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Patch pockets, no darts, but looks like only two buttons:
> View attachment 28170


Looks a little like Ronald Reagan!

Nobody like The Old Ranger!


----------



## Fading Fast

Swelled edge, no darts, but again, looks to be only 2 buttons:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Swelled edge, no darts, but again, looks to be only 2 buttons:
> View attachment 28179


The 3-roll-2 orthodoxy has never been off thin ice anyway.


----------



## Fading Fast

Feels very period to me. Love that one is wearing a button-down-collar shirt and one is using a collar bar:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Love the fit and drape of his suit. What I've noticed since I started posting for this thread is that a lot of '50s advertising had bordering-on-leering looks - men at women and (as seen here - although, not the best example) women at men, that can read a bit creepy to our modern view, but must have been very successful (or thought successful) as it was done so often back then.
> View attachment 27935


LOL. You are remembering times when one didn't have to be as politically correct, as it seems we must be today. The majority of my best "pick-up" lines from back in the 1960's would earn me sure censure today!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. You are remembering times when one didn't have to be as politically correct, as it seems we must be today. The majority of my best "pick-up" lines from back in the 1960's would earn me sure censure today!


The normal way college boys and girls interacted and engaged in, um, extra-curricular activities in the '80s (when I was in college) - the norms and conventions that were accepted by both boys and girls and which were considered polite and appropriate - would not pass mustard today at all. That statement is factual - note, I am not commenting on what is /was right or wrong, just stating the facts as I lived them.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. You are remembering times when one didn't have to be as politically correct, as it seems we must be today. The majority of my best "pick-up" lines from back in the 1960's would earn me sure censure today!





Fading Fast said:


> The normal way college boys and girls interacted and engaged in, um, extra-curricular activities in the '80s (when I was in college) - the norms and conventions that were accepted by both boys and girls and which were considered polite and appropriate - would not pass mustard today at all. That statement is factual - note, I am not commenting on what is /was right or wrong, just stating the facts as I lived them.


The older I get, the more I suspect that the norm is an illusion, and that we vacillate between extremes.

Not to be able to differentiate between the sexual predator who uses a position of power to coerce the less powerful into actual sexual acts, and the dirty old, or dirty young, man trying something on for size, diminishes those who are serious victims of heinous acts.

While I've always been a bit shy with the opposite sex, I assure you that any girl or woman of my generation was entirely capable of ending any unwelcome importuning without any possible uncertainty, absent the element of coercion. And more than a few might be legitimately offended if you expressed no interest at all.


----------



## 16412

The yin and yang, whatever it is called.

My thoughts are the pendulum should hang. Not be pulled to one side or the other. There is good on both sides, along with not good. If pulled way to one side the next generation eventually has need for what's on the other side, and swings other there. I believe the hippie generation was one of them.


----------



## Fading Fast

One thing that we haven't talked much about on the Trad Forum is the modest but noticeable comeback that cardigans have made in the last five to ten years. For much of the '80-'90s, they were untouchable, but for about ten years now, I've noticed that the Millennials have been wearing them - and the selection in stores for them has increased. Of course, they did have their heyday in the '50s and '60s (note how good the button-down collar, horizontal knit tie with the cardigan combo looks):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> One thing that we haven't talked much about on the Trad Forum is the modest but noticeable comeback that cardigans have made in the last five to ten years. For much of the '80-'90s, they were untouchable, but for about ten years now, I've noticed that the Millennials have been wearing them - and the selection in stores for them has increased. Of course, they did have their heyday in the '50s and '60s (note how good the button-down collar, horizontal knit tie with the cardigan combo looks):
> View attachment 28243
> View attachment 28244
> View attachment 28245


I'll take one of each, please!

Actually, I have a Shetland sleeveless cardigan in a color very similar to the gentleman in the middle of the illustration. Love the argyle too!


----------



## Hebrew Barrister

Fading Fast said:


> One thing that we haven't talked much about on the Trad Forum is the modest but noticeable comeback that cardigans have made in the last five to ten years. For much of the '80-'90s, they were untouchable, but for about ten years now, I've noticed that the Millennials have been wearing them - and the selection in stores for them has increased. Of course, they did have their heyday in the '50s and '60s (note how good the button-down collar, horizontal knit tie with the cardigan combo looks):
> View attachment 28243
> View attachment 28244
> View attachment 28245


I'm a gen x'er and love cardigans. I routinely wear them through the colder months, and particularly like wearing one under a sport coat.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hebrew Barrister said:


> I'm a gen x'er and love cardigans. I routinely wear them through the colder months, and particularly like wearing one under a sport coat.


I'm on the bubble of Baby Boomer / Gen X (born mid '64), but whatever to that, I'm a fan of them. Like you, I wear them under a sport coat. I also like them in place of a sport coat for a more casual look.


----------



## Fading Fast

We lost something when bowties went away as a non-controversial alternative to a tie. Also, great Mid-Century airplane and airport illustrations:


----------



## Fading Fast

Not '50s, but such a cool illustration, had to post:


----------



## peterc

Fading, is the above drawing by Fellowes?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not '50s, but such a cool illustration, had to post:
> View attachment 28265


*GREAT* illustration!



peterc said:


> Fading, is the above drawing by Fellowes?


I think it is.


----------



## Fading Fast

peterc said:


> Fading, is the above drawing by Fellowes?


It looks that way to me, but I couldn't find a signature or reference on it. I'll try a few other things and report back if I get any new info.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> It looks that way to me, but I couldn't find a signature or reference on it. I'll try a few other things and report back if I get any new info.


If I recall correctly, the illustration is actually part of an ad. Can't remember if it's Apparel Arts or Esquire. Looks like either Fellows' or Robert Goodman's work.


----------



## Fading Fast

A different style of illustration and, maybe, '60s not '50s owing to the slimness of the suits, but that's just a guess:


----------



## Fading Fast

Not quite sure what this is - is it a period pic or a modern recreation or something else (couldn't find any info on it) - but it's interesting:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not quite sure what this is - is it a period pic or a modern recreation or something else (couldn't find any info on it) - but it's interesting:
> View attachment 28320


Pretty sure it's a photo from a period ad. The posing, set and illumination suggests bucks being spent. Likely either a significant manufacturer/brand, or retailer. The period would be late '50's - early '60's from the cuts and what's being worn. By the mid-'60's hats had become uncommon.

How do I know? I wore stuff like this! 

Edit: Could be as late as the mid-60's too, as the narrowness of the lapels and the fit is very typical of that period. But if so, those hats will be a tough sell.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Pretty sure it's a photo from a period ad. The posing, set and illumination suggests bucks being spent. Likely either a significant manufacturer/brand, or retailer. The period would be late '50's - early '60's from the cuts and what's being worn. By the mid-'60's hats had become uncommon.
> 
> How do I know? I wore stuff like this!
> 
> Edit: Could be as late as the mid-60's too, as the narrowness of the lapels and the fit is very typical of that period. But if so, those hats will be a tough sell.


Thank you - great color. The skinniness of the suits had me thinking '60s more than '50s, but I agree on the hats tilting earlier. Also, the hair on the guy on the left doesn't look quite right for either period which had me thinking it might be a more modern piece done to look period.

All that said, I love the three-piece suit (and its swelled edges). Also, some of the suit jackets look surprisingly short for the period (more today than '60s, which also had me thinking it might be a period piece).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you - great color. The skinniness of the suits had me thinking '60s more than '50s, but I agree on the hats tilting earlier. Also, the hair on the guy on the left doesn't look quite right for either period which had me thinking it might be a more modern piece done to look period.
> 
> All that said, I love the three-piece suit (and its swelled edges). Also, some of the suit jackets look surprisingly short for the period (more today than '60s, which also had me thinking it might be a period piece).


The flavor of the era -


----------



## Fading Fast

My guess '40s, but heck of an ad (note the knit tie):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> My guess '40s, but heck of an ad (note the knit tie):
> View attachment 28384


I want that jacket!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 28420


Great suit! Would love one. Tweed and patch pockets are like PB&J. Once had my tailor make a Saxony (Looked like tweed.) from a cream, tan and grey tickweave with patch pockets all around. Very handsome and useful.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great suit! Would love one. Tweed and patch pockets are like PB&J. Once had my tailor make a Saxony (Looked like tweed.) from a cream, tan and grey tickweave with patch pockets all around. Very handsome and useful.


Nice sounding suit.

Hey, I just noticed, that guy has a real Ronald Reagan echo.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Nice sounding suit.
> 
> Hey, I just noticed, that guy has a real Ronald Reagan echo.


Very much so.

Also noted the cut, low button stance and very low gorge. Likely late '40's - very early '50's.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hard to tell if there's a beef-roll or not on those pennies (I think not).


----------



## eagle2250

^^
They look almost to be a Venetian loafer design (no penny strap), but try as I might, I just cannot recall Venetian loafers being sold back in the 1950/1960's. Perhaps they were, but I didn't see them in Lock Haven, Pa.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> They look almost to be a Venetian loafer design (no penny strap), but try as I might, I just cannot recall Venetian loafers being sold back in the 1950/1960's. Perhaps they were, but I didn't see them in Lock Haven, Pa.


I think you're right - no penny strap (as I enlarge the pic, it get's too fuzzy to completely confirm).

Also, just noticed, to scale, her waist must be about 12 inches.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> They look almost to be a Venetian loafer design (no penny strap), but try as I might, I just cannot recall Venetian loafers being sold back in the 1950/1960's. Perhaps they were, but I didn't see them in Lock Haven, Pa.





eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> They look almost to be a Venetian loafer design (no penny strap), but try as I might, I just cannot recall Venetian loafers being sold back in the 1950/1960's. Perhaps they were, but I didn't see them in Lock Haven, Pa.


Maybe they're from Kenneth Cole! 

But, seriously, another great illustration!


----------



## eagle2250

^^Indeed, this thread and the vintage Esquire thread have become two of my favorite threads...very enjoyable viewing each and every posting in said threads!


----------



## Fading Fast

Looks like a tab or pin collar on the brown-sit guy, right?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Looks like a tab or pin collar on the brown-sit guy, right?
> View attachment 28469


Great illustration! Thank you.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration! Thank you.


Not that I notice the women in these illustrations, but she could be the sister of Fellows' often depicted blonde. You don't just stumble into that jawline.

Since college thesis papers can be brilliant (uh-huh) dissertations on minutia dressed up as scholarly insight, there's a thesis waiting to be written on the women depicted in men's clothing illustrations of the '20s - '60s.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not that I notice the women in these illustrations, but she could be the sister of Fellows' often depicted blonde. You don't just stumble into that jawline.
> 
> Since college thesis papers can be brilliant (uh-huh) dissertations on minutia dressed up as scholarly insight, there's a thesis waiting to be written on the women depicted in men's clothing illustrations of the '20s - '60s.


There is! And I'd be surprised if more than one hasn't already been written, and in full fairness, if done well, might actually be quite interesting. What I'm thinking is that each era has had its archetypes of both female and male appeal, and an analysis and comparison of them would actually be quite revealing.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> There is! And I'd be surprised if more than one hasn't already been written, and in full fairness, if done well, might actually be quite interesting. What I'm thinking is that each era has had it archetypes of both female and male appeal, and an analysis and comparison of them would actually be quite revealing.


Agreed, I was being a bit snarky, but in truth, that stuff is interesting even if (where my snark comes in) a bit over intellectualizing. Hey, a lot of thesis papers have to be written; they all can't be groundbreaking.


----------



## Flanderian

Forgive me, while not an illustration, this photo of a J Press window circa 1981 is too nice not to share -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Agreed, a wonderful widow. Looks as if Press was promoting collars with eyelets for a collar bar at the time.


----------



## Fading Fast

The wardrobe designers for "Mad Men" were inspired by pics like this:









How cool / Ivy is this German ad:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> The wardrobe designers for "Mad Men" were inspired by pics like this:
> View attachment 28513
> 
> 
> How cool / Ivy is this German ad:
> View attachment 28514


That's very 1961!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

1946. What an outstanding illustration (I'd love to be at that ballgame right now):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 28536





Fading Fast said:


> 1946. What an outstanding illustration (I'd love to be at that ballgame right now):
> View attachment 28550


Love 'em! Particularly the Haspel.


----------



## Fading Fast

Looks '40s to me, but a cool illustration:









And a closer to home one (for our US members). Hard to read the date, but I think it's '52:


----------



## Fading Fast

And while this looks more like it belongs in Flanderian's Esquire thread, it's such a nice illustration that (since I couldn't identify its origin) I just wanted to share:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I've either got to lose some weight or buy some larger sized Topsters...great casual jackets!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> I've either got to lose some weight or buy some larger sized Topsters...great casual jackets!


One can only hope that no one ever wore the jacket or shirt with the matching luggage at the same time.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Looks '40s to me, but a cool illustration:
> View attachment 28579
> 
> 
> And a closer to home one (for our US members). Hard to read the date, but I think it's '52:
> View attachment 28580


More great illustrations! Thank you!

The late '40's segued into the early '50's virtually without a ripple.

The Pendleton item pictured is iconic. I could never warm to it, because I have a particular antipathy to miss-matched plaid pockets. Too OCD I guess.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> More great illustrations! Thank you!
> 
> The late '40's segued into the early '50's virtually without a ripple.
> 
> The Pendleton item pictured is iconic. I could never warm to it, because I have a particular antipathy to miss-matched plaid pockets. Too OCD I guess.


How awesome are those herringbone suits in the second pic?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> How awesome are those herringbone suits in the second pic?


Tweed, indeed! A nice herringbone can be worn by anyone and look good!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 28623


Thank you, very nice!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Thank you, very nice!


I like how they spell out the outfits (kinda like a not-flowery Esquire). Also, the guy on the bike is losing out to the standing guy for the young woman's attention.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I like how they spell out the outfits (kinda like a not-flowery Esquire). Also, the guy on the bike is losing out to the standing guy for the young woman's attention.


You never know with gals! I'd take the duds on the right.

Ladies can be delightfully inconsistent. My wife will tell me she doesn't care for something, and 5 months later tell me how well she likes it!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> You never know with gals! I'd take the duds on the right.
> 
> Ladies can be delightfully inconsistent. My wife will tell me she doesn't care for something, and 5 months later tell me how well she likes it!


And let's just note that she's wearing a vomit-green suit .


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm sure Flanderian has or will capture this one ⇩ in his Vintage Esquire thread, but I don't remember seeing it so thought I'd post it since it's just that good:








I'm sure I just wasn't paying attention, but I don't remember seeing the footrest the last time I was on an airplane .


----------



## Fading Fast

The guy on the left appears to be an early advocate for stretching the business dress code as - believe it or not - his outfit would have been considered extremely casual in a business setting back then. Great windows in that office, BTW.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 28632
> 
> 
> I'm sure Flanderian has or will capture this one ⇩ in his Vintage Esquire thread, but I don't remember seeing it so thought I'd post it since it's just that good:
> View attachment 28633
> 
> I'm sure I just wasn't paying attention, but I don't remember seeing the footrest the last time I was on an airplane .


You betcha!  Though I too can't recall if it's past or future in the Esquire chronology.

Love the top ad! Quintessential 1950's.



Fading Fast said:


> The guy on the left appears to be an early advocate for stretching the business dress code as - believe it or not - his outfit would have been considered extremely casual in a business setting back then. Great windows in that office, BTW.
> View attachment 28671


Another great illustration!

Concerning the more relaxed outfit of the fellow on the left; I would agree, but only in part. His attire might well bespeak visiting a colleague on his day off (As I sometimes would don a sport jacket if I had to travel to an office during the '80's when I was off.) But in the '50's and mid '60's sport jackets actually were pretty common in many offices. Younger junior employees, such as I was in '66, would commonly interchange sport jackets and suits depending upon mood and circumstance.

And another possibility, seeing the gent's hat in the foreground, is that he might be a visiting salesman. Salesman, of general lines, or industrial suppliers, were actually more likely to show up in a tasteful sport jacket prior to the '80's, than a suit.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> You betcha!  Though I too can't recall if it's past or future in the Esquire chronology.
> 
> Love the top ad! Quintessential 1950's.
> 
> Another great illustration!
> 
> Concerning the more relaxed outfit of the fellow on the left; I would agree, but only in part. His attire might well bespeak visiting a colleague on his day off (As I sometimes would don a sport jacket if I had to travel to an office during the '80's when I was off.) But in the '50's and mid '60's sport jackets actually were pretty common in many offices. Younger junior employees, such as I was in '66, would commonly interchange sport jackets and suits depending upon mood and circumstance.
> 
> And another possibility, seeing the gent's hat in the foreground, is that he might be a visiting salesman. Salesman, of general lines, or industrial suppliers, were actually more likely to show up in a tasteful sport jacket prior to the '80's, than a suit.


Great real-life color. Having started in biz in the early '80s, it was all suits, all the time with sport coats being seen as very casual. It's interesting that there was a different norm years prior.

The only "acceptable" sport coat in the '80s was a navy blazer and medium to dark grey slacks for "newbies" who hadn't enough money to build a wardrobe yet (I wore such an outfit during my college jobs and rotated it in during my first full year as I hadn't acquired enough suits early on not to).

Like you, I really like the office illustration - not at Fellows' level - but there's some real talent there.


----------



## Fading Fast

Really like this suit - the pattern, fit and drape are outstanding. Love the tab collar, too.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Really like this suit - the pattern, fit and drape are outstanding. Love the tab collar, too.
> View attachment 28705


Yes, *very* nice!

Thanks!

:beer:


----------



## Fading Fast

Nice, classic looking suit









My favorite outfit in this one is the iconic baseball uniform


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Nice, classic looking suit
> View attachment 28734
> 
> 
> My favorite outfit in this one is the iconic baseball uniform
> View attachment 28735


Like the lady's eyes!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 28758


Speaking of madras, remember *patch*-madras? Kinda like a crazy quilt of madras plaids, and once, believe it or not, a Trad summer staple. And I wanted one! Figured it might work a little like camouflage . . . .


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Razzle Dazzle (the actual term used by the Navy to describe that type of camouflage)

⇩ Classic


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Razzle Dazzle (the actual term used by the Navy to describe that type of camouflage)
> 
> ⇩ Classic
> View attachment 28774


Looks like two well dressed guys from my boyhood!

Very nice illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

Flanderian said:


> Speaking of madras, remember *patch*-madras? Kinda like a crazy quilt of madras plaids, and once, believe it or not, a Trad summer staple. And I wanted one! Figured it might work a little like camouflage . . . .


I can imagine the uninitiated's reaction to the thought of patch madras, but as with anything, a thing can be done well or poorly. And the obvious critical characteristics are the particular plaid madras selected, and how they are associated. Despite the inherent nature of the concept, they could actually be pretty low key.

Went looking for contemporary examples, and while they abound, most are garish and awful. The example shown below is about the best of what I could find. I remember in the mid or late '70's Chipp had a particularly handsome and tasteful example. Sadly, I did not visit Chipp enough.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I can imagine the uninitiated's reaction to the thought of patch madras, but as with anything, a thing can be done well or poorly. And the obvious critical characteristics are the particular plaid madras selected, and how they are associated. Despite the inherent nature of the concept, they could actually be pretty low key.
> 
> Went looking for contemporary examples, and while they abound, most are garish and awful. The example shown below is about the best of what I could find. I remember in the mid or late '70's Chipp had a particularly handsome and tasteful example. Sadly, I did not visit Chipp enough.


I'm with you, since the pattern is so bold, the colors (as in your example) need to be both muted and not widely varying from each other.


----------



## Fading Fast

Looks modern, but I'm really digging its artistic style and its "homage" to classic attire:


----------



## Fading Fast

Wow, no comments on the above post ⇧, I though it was a particularly good pic. Oh well, how 'bout this ⇩ more traditional one (that is a heck of a coat):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Wow, no comments on the above post ⇧, I though it was a particularly good pic. Oh well, how 'bout this ⇩ more traditional one (that is a heck of a coat):
> View attachment 28812


#211 not really my cup-of-tea, but this one . . . . ! :beer:

A beautiful illustration chock full of classics!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> #211 not really my cup-of-tea, but this one . . . . ! :beer:
> 
> A beautiful illustration chock full of classics!


His coat's amazing and her suit is darn good looking too (as is her 12" to-scale waist ).

His coat has a bit of an echo to this Paul Stuart one I bought from Tweedy Don on our thrift exchange:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> His coat's amazing and her suit is darn good looking too (as is her 12" to-scale waist ).
> 
> His coat has a bit of an echo to this Paul Stuart one I bought from Tweedy Don on our thrift exchange:
> View attachment 28821


Wow, really nice! Love black and white herringbone tweed coats!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Looks modern, but I'm really digging its artistic style and its "homage" to classic attire:
> View attachment 28791


The rig in question leaves me less than inspired, but I do like the grip bag...a very useful accessory for the traveler or even for trips to the gym!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The rig in question leaves me less than inspired, but I do like the grip bag...a very useful accessory for the traveler or even for trips to the gym!


The outfit is "modern trad," and I'm with you, it's no more than okay, but I like that at least it's out there. Every bit of trad/Ivy promoted to the young keeps it alive - cardigans have come back from the dead, thankfully, because of this. What I really like is the artistry of the water-color illustration. And, agreed, cool grip.



Flanderian said:


> Wow, really nice! Love black and white herringbone tweed coats!


Black and white herringbone is my favorite - what? - pattern and color combination? Whatever it is, my wardrobe is chock-a-block with it. Note, avatar.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
One can't help but notice the shocked look on the young lady's face, as she realizes that the well and stylishly dressed gentleman is so absorbed with the papers in hand that he is almost certainly going to leave her with that mountain of luggage. We can only wonder how long it will be before he gets whacked on the noggin with that umbrella of her's? Woe be it for him, if he is already domestically entwined with her! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> One can't help but notice the shocked look on the young lady's face, as she realizes that the well and stylishly dressed gentleman is so absorbed with the papers in hand that he is almost certainly going to leave her with that mountain of luggage. We can only wonder how long it will be before he gets whacked on the noggin with that umbrella of her's? Woe be it for him, if he is already domestically entwined with her! LOL.


I love your interpretation. I've noted in this thread how the era (we'll loosely it as, say, the '40s - '60s) had a style of how it presented men's and women's reactions to each other that feels very of that period but "off" to us today. Nothing right or wrong there, just noting it.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 28827


Really classy art work!
I like the gal! :happy:


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Really classy art work!
> I like the gal! :happy:


 I prefer #212's quiet elegance, strong jawline and wasp waist.


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## Fading Fast

While some of the visages feel off to me, I do like the example of the tan sport coat and medium-grey slacks (and the right amount of cuff showing).


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> While some of the visages feel off to me, I do like the example of the tan sport coat and medium-grey slacks (and the right amount of cuff showing).
> View attachment 28839


Yes--the facial expressions. It seems like the woman in the left foreground just farted long and loud, and everyone else is reacting.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> While some of the visages feel off to me, I do like the example of the tan sport coat and medium-grey slacks (and the right amount of cuff showing).
> View attachment 28839





Charles Dana said:


> Yes--the facial expressions. It seems like the woman in the left foreground just farted long and loud, and everyone else is reacting.


+1. And noting the ascot/cravat with pleasure, once a common trad embellishment.

Agree about some of the expressions. The fellow and his lady look as if they've observed something unpleasant on the carpet.


----------



## Fading Fast

Ivy guy in the back center - OCBD (with okay roll), rep tie, striped sport coat and grey (maybe dark green) trousers:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Given the mustard hued jacket, I'm betting on the dark green trousers...the gentleman's got style!


----------



## Fading Fast

Cool art work / classic raincoats:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Cool art work / classic raincoats:
> View attachment 28896


*Very* late '50's, early '60's!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> *Very* late '50's, early '60's!


I've got a good one coming for tomorrow - mid '50s.


----------



## Fading Fast

Esquire magazine, June 1956


----------



## eagle2250

^^
This is one of the best you have presented for our enjoyment...a well dressed man, involved in considering an impromptu decision for sure!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> This is one of the best you have presented for our enjoyment...a well dressed man, involved in considering an impromptu decision for sure!


I'm with you - I really like this one, both the outfit and the artistry.


----------



## Fading Fast

This was not posted for the scantily clad woman (heck, in today's world, she might not even qualify as scantily clad), but for the man's very Ivy grey narrow-lapel sack suit, OCBD, square-bottom tie (probably a knit) and slip-on (maybe) tassels:









*artwork of Robert McGinnis*


----------



## eagle2250

Scantily clad or not, I'm almost certain the gentleman's thoughts, as he sits there with the lady's shoe in his hand and takes note of the grime on the sole of her left foot, is wondering..."Oh my!"  Is that a holstered gat we see peaking out from beneath the left lapel of his suit coat? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> This was not posted for the scantily clad woman
> 
> View attachment 28961
> 
> *artwork of Robert McGinnis*


That's OK! *Now* we're getting somewhere! :amazing:


----------



## peterc

More great photos in this thread. Sometimes I think what we all really want is a time machine.

On another note, the 1960 film Exodus was on tonight here in SF and I caught the last 45 minutes or so of it. I really, really like the safari style clothing. High waisted shorts and chinos and some of the best safari shirts I have ever seen - all with epaulets, 2 big pockets, etc. I could have 50 2 pocketed tan safari shirts and that still wouldn't be enough for me.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 28989


Very nice!

I'd place it somewhere during the 10 year period between '56-'66.

And while mine is a check, it's not entirely dissimilar to a sport jacket I currently wear.

Though mine is two-button with darts, but the shape is still very similar.

The point being, this was purchased in the last few years, and isn't all that different. The argument for classicism.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I'd place it somewhere during the 10 year period between '56-'66.
> 
> And while mine is a check, it's not entirely dissimilar to a sport jacket I currently wear.
> 
> Though mine is two-button with darts, but the shape is still very similar.
> 
> The point being, this was purchased in the last few years, and isn't all that different. The argument for classicism.


Other than the super-slim cut/proportions of modern suits, sport coats and trousers, many things in the stores today - not the of-the-moment fashion stores, but BB, J.Crew, Polo and others - have a very Ivy / '60s vibe.

I'd go so far as to say that the last 5-10 years has seen an increase in modern takes on those classics. Seersucker, tweeds, madras and Fair Isles - just to name some examples - have greater representation in those stores today than in the mid '00s.

And to be fair, with a discerning eye and some patience, reasonable cuts of those can be found as, as noted in another thread (somewhere), a lot of the silly short looks shown on models are just intentionally undersized efforts, but when you go into the store, you can find more normal-sized cuts.


----------



## Fading Fast

As a twist on what we normally do here, a big thing in the '50s and early '60s (really the '20s - early '60s) was working men in quasi uniforms like these delivery guys clearly wearing WWII-inspired uniforms (the Ike jacket echo is loud).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> As a twist on what we normally do here, a big thing in the '50s and early '60s (really the '20s - early '60s) was working men in quasi uniforms like these delivery guys clearly wearing WWII-inspired uniforms (the Ike jacket echo is loud).
> View attachment 28993
> View attachment 28995


Boy, does that bring back memories!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Boy, does that bring back memories!


A couple of my favorites:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A couple of my favorites:
> View attachment 29000
> View attachment 29001


Those are great examples of rolling Art Deco!

Imagine an era when bread, eggs & dairy got delivered to your house! And a doctor even showed up when you were sick!! 

Dugan's was one of the brands of bread once patronized by my family home. And I can still remember milk and cream being left in a steel bin on our side porch, the bottles of which were sealed with a little cardboard lid that lifted off. When empty, the bottles got rinsed and placed back in the steel bin for return.

A blessed job my father secured during The Depression was as a laundry man. Commercial laundries would pick up your home laundry, wash and iron it, and then deliver it, *if* you were fortunate enough to be able to afford it. He not only performed the hauling for the laundry in a truck they provided, but even solicited new business on his route.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Those are great examples of rolling Art Deco!
> 
> Imagine an era when bread, eggs & dairy got delivered to your house! And a doctor even showed up when you were sick!!
> 
> Dugan's was one of the brands of bread once patronized by my family home. And I can still remember milk and cream being left in a steel bin on our side porch, the bottles of which were sealed with a little cardboard lid that lifted off. When empty, the bottles got rinsed and placed back in the steel bin for return.
> 
> A blessed job my father secured during The Depression was as a laundry man. Commercial laundries would pick up your home laundry, wash and iron it, and then deliver it, *if* you were fortunate enough to be able to afford it. He not only performed the hauling for the laundry in a truck they provided, but even solicited new business on his route.


The house I grew up in was built in the 1930s and had, in the kitchen, a small (about 18" square) door in the wall (near the kitchen door) that opened to a metal box (built right into the wall) that had a door on the far side that opened to the outside. It was built for milk to be left by the milkman in the morning - and you'd leave the empty bottles there, too, for him to pick up.

Okay, fast forward forty odd years to when my girlfriend and I bought our current apartment - built in 1928 - where, during the kitchen renovation, we discovered the same thing - a metal box, built right into the kitchen wall that opened on both sides with the "outside" opening going to the stairwell landing. When first built, the building had boxes like that for every apartment and the milkman would deliver and pick up everyday (we read about it - as we were doing some research later - in the building's original offering docs from '28).


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> As a twist on what we normally do here, a big thing in the '50s and early '60s (really the '20s - early '60s) was working men in quasi uniforms like these delivery guys clearly wearing WWII-inspired uniforms (the Ike jacket echo is loud).
> View attachment 28993
> View attachment 28995


I remember the milkman delivering to our door a couple of times each week, but rather than blue or British Khaki, his threads were a cool, crisp white!


----------



## peterc

Great stories guys. Many thanks.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> The house I grew up in was built in the 1930s and had, in the kitchen, a small (about 18" square) door in the wall (near the kitchen door) that opened to a metal box (built right into the wall) that had a door on the far side that opened to the outside. It was built for milk to be left by the milkman in the morning - and you'd leave the empty bottles there, too, for him to pick up.
> 
> Okay, fast forward forty odd years to when my girlfriend and I bought our current apartment - built in 1928 - where, during the kitchen renovation, we discovered the same thing - a metal box, built right into the kitchen wall that opened on both sides with the "outside" opening going to the stairwell landing. When first built, the building had boxes like that for every apartment and the milkman would deliver and pick up everyday (we read about it - as we were doing some research later - in the building's original offering docs from '28).


Very cool. I suspect my grandparents (The original occupants of my boyhood home.) would have viewed that as a modern convenience. Delighted to learn you're doing your part for historic preservation. Sadly, our country has always preferred to knock stuff down rather than renovate it. Manhattan, despite all its issues, has at least understood the irreplaceable nature of the past, and tried to preserve some of it.



eagle2250 said:


> I remember the milkman delivering to our door a couple of times each week, but rather than blue or British Khaki, his threads were a cool, crisp white!


Right! Milkmen wore white, bread men usually khaki or green.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Very cool. I suspect my grandparents (The original occupants of my boyhood home.) would have viewed that as a modern convenience. Delighted to learn you're doing your part for historic preservation. Sadly, our country has always preferred to knock stuff down rather than renovate it. Manhattan, despite all its issues, has at least understood the irreplaceable nature of the past, and tried to preserve some of it.....


When we renovated, we kept every original detail here, added many back in as the super had a lot of items (original-to-the-building medicine cabinets, radiators, tiles, etc.) from other apartments that had gotten rid of them in their renovations and we purchased period items or thoughtful reproductions (as the last choice). There are 60 apartments here and we have, possibly, the last original bathrooms. Like you, preserving this stuff is very important to us. Manhattan does a decent job - as you noted - but it took a come-to-Jesus moment for it to get there - the heart-breaking demolition of the incredible original Penn Station.


----------



## Fading Fast

For today, this neat one:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Surprised that one got no comments as I thought the artistry was good and the Ivy look really good.

Let's try this ⇩ more down-the-fairway one for today:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Surprised that one got no comments as I thought the artistry was good and the Ivy look really good.
> 
> Let's try this ⇩ more down-the-fairway one for today:
> View attachment 29029


Very Ivy, right down to the pennies!

:beer:


----------



## Fading Fast

"Mad Men" used a lot of vest-and-sport-coat combos like this. It's a shame we rarely see it anymore. And manly or not, I'm putting on an apron over that outfit if I'm grilling steaks.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> "Mad Men" used a lot of vest-and-sport-coat combos like this. It's a shame we rarely see it anymore. And manly or not, I'm putting on an apron over that outfit if I'm grilling steaks.
> View attachment 29063


Very nice, fancy vest were an Ivy item, and why not!?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> "Mad Men" used a lot of vest-and-sport-coat combos like this. It's a shame we rarely see it anymore. And manly or not, I'm putting on an apron over that outfit if I'm grilling steaks.
> View attachment 29063


The wife and I have grilled steaks/ribs/etc. for a lot of guests over a period of a lot of years, and I cannot once remember ever wearing a coat, vest and/or tie while doing so! It was only for the holiday 'gorges' that the coat and tie made an appearance. Egad...does that qualify me as a slob? :icon_scratch: LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The wife and I have grilled steaks/ribs/etc. for a lot of guests over a period of a lot of years, and I cannot once remember ever wearing a coat, vest and/or tie while doing so! It was only for the holiday 'gorges' that the coat and tie made an appearance. Egad...does that qualify me as a slob? :icon_scratch: LOL.


It's funny, but if you try and research what the "average" American wore to do this or that in the '50s, you come away recognizing that there is no such thing as the "average" American when it comes to clothing.

Of course, overall, American men wore suits / sport coats / dress trousers / ties much more in the '50s than today, but many communities, sub-cultures, regions, etc., wore them much more or much less than others.

The neighborhood I grew up in was part of town (you could walk to the main street), but was similar to the TV show the "Wonder Years" as to the houses, lifestyles, (fancy word coming) socio-economic level, etc. Since I was born in 1964, I can't speak from experience as to how people dressed in the '50s and early '60s, but I have talked to my mom about it.

She said, for summer backyard parties, most men would wear an open-collared shirt (but some would wear a tie), but not suits or sport coats (a few might arrive with a sport coat and immediately remove it). However, for evening parties in someone's house, most came in suits or sport coats with a tie (a few might not have on a tie).

I have a friend from Maine who said her blue-collar community, in the '50s, rarely wore suits, sport coats or ties away from weddings and funerals. She said, a Sunday backyard party would see men in work or dress trousers with either collared shirts or t-shirts, but no ties, suits or sport coats and the same for going over to someone's house at night.

Based on the movies of that era, all the above seems accurate as the lean in movies was that people did wear suits / ties / sport coats more, but there are plenty of scenes of backyard parties with men not in suits / ties / sport coats and, also, house parties with some of men also not wearing those items.

I'm not writing any of this in some "definitive" way or claiming "this" is the answer, I'm just sharing my observations and impressions from - and this is important - my efforts to "look back" to a time I never experienced first hand.


----------



## Fading Fast

And away from all my blah, blah, blah above, here's a bit of different one for today:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> It's funny, but if you try and research what the "average" American wore to do this or that in the '50s, you come away recognizing that there is no such thing as the "average" American when it comes to clothing.
> 
> Of course, overall, American men wore suits / sport coats / dress trousers / ties much more in the '50s than today, but many communities, sub-cultures, regions, etc., wore them much more or much less than others.
> 
> The neighborhood I grew up in was part of town (you could walk to the main street), but was similar to the TV show the "Wonder Years" as to the houses, lifestyles, (fancy word coming) socio-economic level, etc. Since I was born in 1964, I can't speak from experience as to how people dressed in the '50s and early '60s, but I have talked to my mom about it.
> 
> She said, for summer backyard parties, most men would wear an open-collared shirt (but some would wear a tie), but not suits or sport coats (a few might arrive with a sport coat and immediately remove it). However, for evening parties in someone's house, most came in suits or sport coats with a tie (a few might not have on a tie).
> 
> I have a friend from Maine who said her blue-collar community, in the '50s, rarely wore suits, sport coats or ties away from weddings and funerals. She said, a Sunday backyard party would see men in work or dress trousers with either collared shirts or t-shirts, but no ties, suits or sport coats and the same for going over to someone's house at night.
> 
> Based on the movies of that era, all the above seems accurate as the lean in movies was that people did wear suits / ties / sport coats more, but there are plenty of scenes of backyard parties with men not in suits / ties / sport coats and, also, house parties with some of men also not wearing those items.
> 
> I'm not writing any of this in some "definitive" way or claiming "this" is the answer, I'm just sharing my observations and impressions from - and this is important - my efforts to "look back" to a time I never experienced first hand.


Very insightful. What we see here is a largely aspirational depiction of what the average guy imagined his life would be like when he "made it." And this was the typical depiction used throughout most print, film and TV media.

The average American guy was still doing an 8-5 in a factory, or other work-a-day job somewhere in the city or town in which they lived. Suburbs were largely new, and marketed as glamorous, and this average American imagined himself living in one dressed in a nice sport jacket and snazzy vest while cooking steaks for his equally "cool" friends. But that was not where he lived, not how he dressed most of the time, and he more often ate hamburger.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Charles Dana

If you do a google image search for "family cookouts 1950s" and "family backyard barbecues 1950s" (but without the quotation marks), then you'll see some photos of what people really wore at those functions at that time. And, of course, clicking on one photo will lead you to an entire page of related photos, and so on. Before you know it, you'll be 99 years old. "Where did the time go?"


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL...how true. 
I figure if I could recover the time I've spent perusing these AAAC forums, I would be somewhere around 39 years old!


----------



## Fading Fast

I believe these meet the bar for "high-rise" trousers:


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I believe these meet the bar for "high-rise" trousers:
> View attachment 29152


They do! And a high rise guy to wear them.

Must be the son of a Laurence Fellows' illustration.


----------



## Dcr5468

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I believe these meet the bar for "high-rise" trousers:
> View attachment 29152


If I had a present day source for those trousers or trousers of a similar design, I would be rushing to update my wardrobe! My trouser waist seated at or just below my navel is sartorial perfection to my eye. Alas, such just doesn't happen much any more.


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## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> If I had a present day source for those trousers or trousers of a similar design, I would be rushing to update my wardrobe! My trouser waist seated at or just below my navel is sartorial perfection to my eye. Alas, such just doesn't happen much any more.


Sir, I may be able to assist you! :icon_saint7kg:

And in more than a typical tongue-in-cheek manner.

I've one pair of khaki's from the folks at the link below, and if not the most refined they are honestly and sturdily made. If you were to go out and buy decent but average pair of pants from the era of the illustration Fading Fast posted, they would have been cut like these, and of a very similar quality to what these folks sell.

I'm a pleats guy, so mine have them, and I ordered a regular rise. The rise is very ample for this guy with the waistband actually slightly above the navel. But what's great, is if you want traditionally cut pants, they offer short, regular and long rises for their trousers. So you should be able to get them as high as you wish.

If you're serious about looking for trousers that fit that bill, you might want to give these a try. They're not excessively costly. Though you should adjust your expectations as the quality of both cloth and make is very much much middle of the road, just as was typical of pants from that era.

https://berle.com/collections/tailored-trousers


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## eagle2250

^^
My friend, you have done a service for both Berle.com and myself with your post above, as I hope to order at least two pair of flat front trousers from them. Did I understand you to say in your fourth paragraph that the regular rise trousers puts the waist at "slightly above the navel?" If so, I wouldn't want to go any higher. My goal is the trouser waist sitting at or just below my navel, but not much more than that(not looking to achieve the Urkel effect). I take it it would be your recommendation to order the regular rise? Thanks for the source!


----------



## Fading Fast

Today, something really different. I like its quirkiness overall.

Do you think the speckling in his pants is supposed to reflect a Donegal Tweed? And is that an unbuttoned button-down collar (note the small dark spot on the tip of the collar and the small white spot in the shadow of the collar on the shirt)?

Also, I love the white bucks.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
....and how about the man's pipe floating in mid-air? My guess would be that the trousers are Donnegal Tweed and that the shirt is an unsecured button down collar (note the dot of light shining through the unused button hole under the right collar tip). This is certainly one of your most entertaining illustrations.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> My friend, you have done a service for both Berle.com and myself with your post above, as I hope to order at least two pair of flat front trousers from them. Did I understand you to say in your fourth paragraph that the regular rise trousers puts the waist at "slightly above the navel?" If so, I wouldn't want to go any higher. My goal is the trouser waist sitting at or just below my navel, but not much more than that(not looking to achieve the Urkel effect). I take it it would be your recommendation to order the regular rise? Thanks for the source!


You are very welcome, sir!

Yes, that's where the rise sets it on my body, and I am fairly long-bodied to boot. Though I specified a regular rise, I've wondered if a long might have gotten misidentified. Every maker has their own idea of sizing, so since this is my only pair to date from them, I didn't want to make that assumption.

But to be certain, you may have to do a try-on via post to learn whether the regular or long rise in their fit suits you best. Don't know that you'd want the bother, but in similar issues I've sometimes ordered one in each size, and kept the one closest to my preference.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Today, something really different. I like its quirkiness overall.
> 
> Do you think the speckling in his pants is supposed to reflect a Donegal Tweed? And is that an unbuttoned button-down collar (note the small dark spot on the tip of the collar and the small white spot in the shadow of the collar on the shirt)?
> 
> Also, I love the white bucks.
> View attachment 29183


A delightful illustration! And a prototypical '50's male fantasy!


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with something different for a second day, I like the way these classic clothes look insanely comfortable and natural in this illustration:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Now that's my idea of how one should do yard work on a hot and humid summer day! Though I think I would opt for a more modern/comfortable chaise lounge.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with something different for a second day, I like the way these classic clothes look insanely comfortable and natural in this illustration:
> View attachment 29210


Nice! Likely because they are. Properly cut clothing with a roomy fit is as comfortable as anything you might wish to wear. Forget the T-shirt and jeans.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'd never heard of H.I.S. Sportwear before seeing these ads. Knowing that there were a bunch of brands that tried to jump on the IVY bandwagon in its heyday, I'm guessing (and that's all it is) that H.I.S. was an IVY wanna-be brand. 








That said, I do love the three-piece corduroy suit; although, I'm a suspicious of the reversible vest.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'd never heard of H.I.S. Sportwear before seeing these ads. Knowing that there were a bunch of brands that tried to jump on the IVY bandwagon in its heyday, I'm guessing (and that's all it is) that H.I.S. was an IVY wanna-be brand.
> View attachment 29240
> 
> That said, I do love the three-piece corduroy suit; although, I'm a suspicious of the reversible vest.


I don't recall them either, and I thought I knew just about all of them. But that rather underlines an important significance, and that is that there were a lot more makers then. Not just brands whipped up by anonymous jobbers, but actual manufacturers.

Agree about the vest, I generally don't find corduroy paired with corduroy the best choice. Moleskin, suede, particularly tweed, but not more corduroy, unless it matches.


----------



## Fading Fast

3/2 sack, Harrington, seersucker, a balmacaan and a trench coat - nice stuff:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The dude is styling, for sure, but how do you know that's a balmacaan?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The dude is styling, for sure, but how do you know that's a balmacaan?


I don't, I just took a shot and figured other would jump in.

Fun illustration though and great job by the artist capturing the Harrington's look.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 29322


Nice! I once had a corduroy suit that color, though not particularly Trad. Wouldn't mind another.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Nice! I once had a corduroy suit that color, though not particularly Trad. Wouldn't mind another.


I haven't owned a corduroy sport coat in decades, but have been somewhat looking for one the last few seasons, but the selection's been slim. My guess, one of these years, the retailers will decide to promote corduroy and I'll have plenty of options. While I like the concept of a corduroy suit, I can't see one getting much use in my current work-life situation.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I bought one from O'Connell's several years back. It's a forest green hue and has proven itself to be a very nice and durable jacket! Knowing how O'Connell's operates, I'm betting that they still have them in stock.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> I bought one from O'Connell's several years back. It's a forest green hue and has proven itself to be a very nice and durable jacket! Knowing how O'Connell's operates, I'm betting that they still have them in stock.


Thank you for the tip. I just checked and they have a couple - rust and tan. I'd maybe consider the tan, but it's not in my size.

Part of the "problem" is I haven't really zeroed in on what exactly I want, so I'm hoping I'll know it when I see it. As mentioned, my guess, there will be a year when they are being pushed a bit and, then, I'll probably see the one I want.

I had a dark green one decades ago and loved it. It "felt" different than other jackets - casual yet sturdy in a "corduroy" way. And I liked the sound it made - a very "Dead Poet's Society" sound.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I haven't owned a corduroy sport coat in decades, but have been somewhat looking for one the last few seasons, but the selection's been slim. My guess, one of these years, the retailers will decide to promote corduroy and I'll have plenty of options. While I like the concept of a corduroy suit, I can't see one getting much use in my current work-life situation.


I agree that corduroy suits are properly sportwear only, and as such fall into the realm where they're unsuitable for business but fairly dressy for off duty. (Though they can be dressed down a lot.) But they're so comfy in colder weather - stylish and relaxed at the same time. An added plus is they're one of the few suits where you can almost be sure you can wear either piece separately and look good.

Many years ago when I still had a tailor I had him make a bottle green one from Scabal corduroy. As I recall is was medium/heavier weight, woven in German and a blend of cotton with a bit of wool added. Wore like iron, and with cheaper corduroy cloth, wear can be a significant concern, resulting in balding corduroy.


----------



## Fading Fast

A modern illustrator, but with a, IMHO, vintage / trad vibe:








Love the suit.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A modern illustrator, but with a, IMHO, vintage / trad vibe:
> View attachment 29349
> 
> Love the suit.


I think he does very nice work!

Mr. Slowboy, aka Fei Wang, Londoner.


----------



## Fading Fast

Can't remember if I've posted this one before:


----------



## Fading Fast

Well that one ⇧ didn't provoke much comment, I still think its very cool.

Anywho, let's give this 3/2 sack and OCBD a shot today:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Can't remember if I've posted this one before:
> View attachment 29407





Fading Fast said:


> Well that one ⇧ didn't provoke much comment, I still think its very cool.
> 
> Anywho, let's give this 3/2 sack and OCBD a shot today:
> View attachment 29425


Both beautiful illustrations that perfectly capture the aesthetic of the era! The top in particular is especially artful. While more impressionistic, it's still the most evocative.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Both beautiful illustrations that perfectly capture the aesthetic of the era! The top in particular is especially artful. While more impressionistic, it's still the most evocative.


Glad you agree - I like both and really like the top one (handsome great dane).


----------



## eagle2250

^^Given their size, I've always been surprised by just how skittish the breed seems to be...a great big, beautiful animal, but shy! :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Given their size, I've always been surprised by just how skittish the breed seems to be...a great big, beautiful animal, but shy! :icon_scratch:


My girlfriend loves them as they are truly gentle giants. Oddly, because they are, relatively, low-energy dogs, they are quite popular apartment dogs and we see a lot of them in the city.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since it's the weekend, I thought I'd post a fun one that is less about the clothes and more about the mid-century vibe.

That said, he's wearing a polo shirt with grey dress trousers, which is a neat look that you rarely see anymore. However, the women's clothes are even more interesting, as we have the conservative one standing outside in her demure white suit (with a touch-short skirt), but our host is bringing her '50s' look-at-me A-game of skin-tight pedal-pusher pants and a sleeveless blouse with a popped collar.

Note the cool hi-fi ready for later when the drinks have kicked in and it's time to dance.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> Can't remember if I've posted this one before:
> View attachment 29407


Love the simple lines of a balmacaan.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> 3/2 sack, Harrington, seersucker, a balmacaan and a trench coat - nice stuff:
> View attachment 29291


This is probably all one really needs for a solid Ivy Style wardrobe.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> This is probably all one really needs for a solid Ivy Style wardrobe.


It's a wonderful illustration that, as you note, captures so much of the Ivy canon.


----------



## Fading Fast

Being St. Patrick's Day, I tried hard to find an olive poplin suit illustration (tan ones aren't hard), but couldn't. However, I did come across this recent and neat J.Press news article on its poplin suits with an okay pic of an olive-poplin suit.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Since it's the weekend, I thought I'd post a fun one that is less about the clothes and more about the mid-century vibe.
> 
> That said, he's wearing a polo shirt with grey dress trousers, which is a neat look that you rarely see anymore. However, the women's clothes are even more interesting, as we have the conservative one standing outside in her demure white suit (with a touch-short skirt), but our host is bringing her '50s' look-at-me A-game of skin-tight pedal-pusher pants and a sleeveless blouse with a popped collar.
> 
> Note the cool hi-fi ready for later when the drinks have kicked in and it's time to dance.
> 
> View attachment 29446


Ah, looks like the life I fantasized as an adolescent!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Being St. Patrick's Day, I tried hard to find an olive poplin suit illustration (tan ones aren't hard), but couldn't. However, I did come across this recent and neat J.Press news article on its poplin suits with an okay pic of an olive-poplin suit.
> View attachment 29466


For sure, a suit I would love to catch on sale!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> For sure, a suit I would love to catch on sale!


I've mentioned this before, I owned, over the years, every color of that suit they put out - tan, stone, grey, navy and olive (those are all the colors I ever saw and I owned each several times).

They are incredibly comfortable. I love them and would still own them if I had any opportunity to wear them.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another version of the earlier Blizzand ad - I like the prior one with the great dane better; although, that is one heck of a fin:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Another version of the earlier Blizzand ad - I like the prior one with the great dane better; although, that is one heck of a fin:
> View attachment 29522


Another great illustration! By the same illustrator who did the one with the Great Dane, lest my eye deceived me.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Another great illustration! By the same illustrator who did the one with the Great Dane, lest my eye deceived me.


My guess is the same as yours.


----------



## Fading Fast

Love the duffle coat and love the traditional sweater collar.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Love the duffle coat and love the traditional sweater collar.
> View attachment 29573


The answer to, "What does a real duffle coat look like, and how should it fit?"


----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> Another version of the earlier Blizzand ad - I like the prior one with the great dane better; although, that is one heck of a fin:
> View attachment 29522


59 Cadillac in the background.
Note sure what the black car is - my guess is a 59 Maserati 3500 GT


----------



## Flanderian

London380sl said:


> 59 Cadillac in the background.
> Note sure what the black car is - my guess is a 59 Maserati 3500 GT


Sharp eyes!

As a boy, there was a car dealer who specialized in luxury European makes; Rolls, Maserati, etc. And they would leave used versions they were selling on their lot *un*locked after hours. (Yes, a very different time and place.) And I importuned my father to stop when passing to allow me to look, and he joined me, and we actually were able to at least sit in some of these fabulous conveyances just to see how it felt to sit in one.

And one of them *was* a 3500 GT, like the one below, except I seem to remember it being silver over red.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Sharp eyes!
> 
> As a boy, there was a car dealer who specialized in luxury European makes; Rolls, Maserati, etc. And they would leave used versions they were selling on their lot *un*locked after hours. (Yes, a very different time and place.) And I importuned my father to stop when passing to allow me to look, and he joined me, and we actually were able to at least sit in some of these fabulous conveyances just to see how it felt to sit in one.
> 
> And one of them *was* a 3500 GT, like the one below, except I seem to remember it being silver over red.


Funny, just read this article this morning. Check to the third pic in it:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/masera...ne-11552914001?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Funny, just read this article this morning. Check to the third pic in it:
> 
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/masera...ne-11552914001?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1


Seems to be subscription only, but thanks anyway.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Seems to be subscription only, but thanks anyway.


Just PM'd you.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Just PM'd you.


Much thanks!


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm struggling to even guess a decade. I could make an argument for the '30s or '50s easier than the others. Regardless, I love the illustration.


----------



## London380sl

The illustration needs a car but it looks to the 50's to me with the two button sports coat.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm struggling to even guess a decade. I could make an argument for the '30s or '50s easier than the others. Regardless, I love the illustration.
> View attachment 29608


Wow, that's a great illustration, of a great outfit. Would wear today, as-is!

My guess is also sometime in the '50's, though it may also be a more contemporary illustration of the illustrator's idea of the '50's. A few things that are a bit unusual together are the not-too-narrow lapels, the TV fold PS, and cuffless trousers. By the era when the TV fold was introduced, and trousers went cuffless, most lapels had gotten a bit narrower than this.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I'm struggling to even guess a decade. I could make an argument for the '30s or '50s easier than the others. Regardless, I love the illustration.
> View attachment 29608


Interesting cuff design on the gentleman's jacket. it looks similar to that found on a Pendleton Topster. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Interesting cuff design on the gentleman's jacket. it looks similar to that found on a Pendleton Topster. :icon_scratch:


Good point. When I go item by item, I get the 1950s, but if I just take in the "feel" or "vibe" of the illustration, I get a lot of the 1930s. My guess is '50s (I'm a measure it guy), but still...


----------



## Fading Fast

Okay, the plot thickens. I found this one ⇩, which, my guess, is the same artist as the one above. Based on the car in the background, he or she is a contemporary artist. Hence, our trying to put the clothing in an exact period is pointless as the artist, again, my guess, is bringing in vintage influences from several periods.


----------



## London380sl

I'm not sure if this picture is cropped or not as the car and the women are just in the pic. My first impression is this represent the 70's or 80's. No real idea why I think that other than the dress of the woman and the lack of chrome on the bumper of the car. The guy with dog could be in any decade from the 1920's onward.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Curses! It seems our best efforts at dating these latest illustrations are being foiled by the inherent stability of men's style. Wish we could get a better look at the woman's attire. I suspect it might be considerable more revealing! :fool:


----------



## Fading Fast

Not my favorite illustration, but definitely shows a lot of Trad options for a golf sweater or jacket:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not my favorite illustration, but definitely shows a lot of Trad options for a golf sweater or jacket:
> View attachment 29664


Aw! The worthy, but much ignored, cardigan!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Not my favorite illustration, but definitely shows a lot of Trad options for a golf sweater or jacket:
> View attachment 29664


The gentleman pictured appears to have that cardigan in every hue it was offered. Egad, I can identify with that...an expensive habit for sure! I do so love my cardigans. :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The gentleman pictured appears to have that cardigan in every hue it was offered. Egad, I can identify with that...an expensive habit for sure! I do so love my cardigans. :crazy:


I honestly don't know how you multiple-color guys do it. My wardrobe's core colors are grey and tan/stone/camel with a few splashes of this or that other color popping up here or there.

Hence, for example, when I find a sweater that I really like, I'll get it in one or two (or three, if I love it) shades of grey and maybe a cream or camel color. But that's it.

I know - as I've seen on this site - some guys have one sweater in seven, eight or even more colors. I get and respect why they do it, I just shuddered at the budget implications (first) and space challenges (second).


----------



## Fading Fast

Seems like a fun one for the weekend:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I honestly don't know how you multiple-color guys do it. My wardrobe's core colors are grey and tan/stone/camel with a few splashes of this or that other color popping up here or there.
> 
> Hence, for example, when I find a sweater that I really like, I'll get it in one or two (or three, if I love it) shades of grey and maybe a cream or camel color. But that's it.
> 
> I know - as I've seen on this site - some guys have one sweater in seven, eight or even more colors. I get and respect why they do it, I just shuddered at the budget implications (first) and space challenges (second).


In maintaining my wardrobe, I follow a more controlled approach in procuring garments intended for use below my waist (trousers, socks, etc.) but when it comes to knit collared polo shirts, cardigans/sweaters, vented fishing shirts, etc., I go a little crazy in buying every hue available! LOL, I believe I may be addicted.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Seems like a fun one for the weekend:
> View attachment 29682


Handsome and inspiring. Stuff I'd wear today. In fact, I have a yellow Shetland sleeveless sweater in roughly the same hue as the vest pictured, so I shall wear it today in your honor!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> In maintaining my wardrobe, I follow a more controlled approach in procuring garments intended for use below my waist (trousers, socks, etc.) but when it comes to knit collared polo shirts, cardigans/sweaters, vented fishing shirts, etc., I go a little crazy in buying every hue available! LOL, I believe I may be addicted.


I've managed to rein it in a lot in middle age, but I still have a ridiculous number of gray sweaters and tan chinos...and, as you guys all know, herringbone sport coats.



Flanderian said:


> Handsome and inspiring. Stuff I'd wear today. In fact, I have a yellow Shetland sleeveless sweater in roughly the same hue as the vest pictured, so I shall wear it today in your honor!


Good man - thank you.


----------



## Fading Fast

1947


----------



## eagle2250

^^Ah yes,
HSM...my old standby brand for suits during my working years as a civilian...a sturdy, work horse brand for men's suits! I might still have one or two hanging in the back of the closet. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Ah yes,
> HSM...my old standby brand for suits during my working years as a civilian...a sturdy, work horse brand for men's suits! I might still have one or two hanging in the back of the closet. :icon_scratch:


Besides the wonderful yellow sweater vest, I love that HS&M snuck in a tiny bit of OCBD collar roll - a nice touch by the illustrator.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> 1947
> View attachment 29702


A really great illustration, of a great outfit!



eagle2250 said:


> ^^Ah yes,
> HSM...my old standby brand for suits during my working years as a civilian...a sturdy, work horse brand for men's suits! I might still have one or two hanging in the back of the closet. :icon_scratch:


Me too! Solid quality, looked and wore well.


----------



## Fading Fast

I respect Brioni, but it's not my thing today nor, apparently, would it have been my thing back in '55 either. 









A bonus one for today - a demonstration (I guess) of how to wear a suit as separates:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The plaid jacket works reasonably well with the solid charcoal trousers, but the solid charcoal jacket with the plaid trousers is just wrong. Nice illustrations though!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The plaid jacket works reasonably well with the solid charcoal trousers, but the solid charcoal jacket with the plaid trousers is just wrong. Nice illustrations though!


I agree. I believe Matt S has called that look "bottom heavy," which is just how it feels to me.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I respect Brioni, but it's not my thing today nor, apparently, would it have been my thing back in '55 either.
> View attachment 29721


I don't know, I think a younger Vittoris De Sica might have handled that outfit rather well!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I don't know, I think a younger Vittoris De Sica might have handled that outfit rather well!


I should be more careful with my choice of words. There are a lot of clothing styles that I don't think would look good on me - like the clothes in that Brioni illustration - but that would work on many others. That it what I really meant as I agree with you, those clothes would look great on the right person (like the gentleman you noted).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I should be more careful with my choice of words. There are a lot of clothing styles that I don't think would look good on me - like the clothes in that Brioni illustration - but that would work on many others. That it what I really meant as I agree with you, those clothes would look great on the right person (like the gentleman you noted).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 29757


A "cool" ad!


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm guessing '30s and it's possible I'm, unintentionally, stealing an illustration from Flanderian's excellent thread on vintage Esquire illustrations, but I don't remember it there and, since it's so good, here goes:







,


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm guessing '30s and it's possible I'm, unintentionally, stealing an illustration from Flanderian's excellent thread on vintage Esquire illustrations, but I don't remember it there and, since it's so good, here goes:
> View attachment 29806
> ,


Irrespective of from where derived, great illustration!

But I'm left to ponder the contrasted modes of dress. Obviously the one figure in engaged in tennis, but what of the other? Is he on his way to a game after removing his jacket? Is he a spectator? I do know in that era tennis was treated as a gentleman's sport, and gentleman's attire was the norm, but the exact nuances of formality elude me.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Irrespective of from where derived, great illustration!
> 
> But I'm left to ponder the contrasted modes of dress. Obviously the one figure in engaged in tennis, but what of the other? Is he on his way to a game after removing his jacket? Is he a spectator? I do know in that era tennis was treated as a gentleman's sport, and gentleman's attire was the norm, but the exact nuances of formality elude me.


Agreed, but I think you also hinted at the answer as, my guess, he's coming from or to a match. There are a few scenes in the 1951 movie "Strangers on a train" with professional tennis players putting on blazers to go to or from the court and - before or after that - getting fully dressed in attire similar to the guy in the illustration to arrive at or leave the stadium.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed, but I think you also hinted at the answer as, my guess, he's coming from or to a match. There are a few scenes in the 1951 movie "Strangers on a train" with professional tennis players putting on blazers to go to or from the court and - before or after that - getting fully dressed in attire similar to the guy in the illustration to arrive at or leave the stadium.


I've seen photos of players wearing blazers or other jackets to and from matches, such Rene Lacoste below, but I think less common is tie depicted, as all representations I've found are absent one.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I've seen photos of players wearing blazers or other jackets to and from matches, such Rene Lacoste below, but I think less common is tie depicted, as all representations I've found are absent one.


I have my assignment. Next time "Strangers on a Train" is on, I will look carefully for the scenes I mentioned.

I remember one scene in that movie where the tennis player is in a hurry to leave after his match so he throws on his blazer to leave the court and then has his girlfriend hand him his dress attire (tie, collared shirt, dress pants, sport coat) to put on in the cab, but the implication is he would have changed into those clothes in the locker room if time had permitted it.

I'm sure you know this, but I'm not trying to argue a point, etc., I just find this stuff interesting and look for any pics, movies, books etc., that can shine some light. There's also a 1951 movie (big year for tennis movies, I guess) "Hard, Fast and Beautiful" about a female tennis prodigy that might shine some light on the question next time it's on.


----------



## Fading Fast

It's Friday, time to think about kicking back and having some fun, which, methinks, is what's on these people's minds:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> It's Friday, time to think about kicking back and having some fun, which, methinks, is what's on these people's minds:
> View attachment 29832


Great illustration!


----------



## Fading Fast

Seems right for the weekend:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Seems right for the weekend:
> View attachment 29852


An appropriate caption for that illustration: Woodcrafting In "Mr Roger's" Neighborhood. "Won't you be my neighbor!" LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> An appropriate caption for that illustration: Woodcrafting In "Mr Roger's" Neighborhood. "Won't you be my neighbor!" LOL.


I thought the "everyone is wearing a V-neck sweater" approach was a bit creepy and not good advertising, but no one ever paid me to create an ad.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 29868


Another common and popular brand of the era.

It's *nice* when your country makes stuff!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Another common and popular brand of the era.
> 
> It's *nice* when your country makes stuff!


Agreed.

Not a name I recognize at all - don't remember ever stumbling across it before.

The cut of the suit jacket is closer to the modern slim cuts than even most of the '60s slim-cut suit jackets were.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Not a name I recognize at all - don't remember ever stumbling across it before.
> 
> The cut of the suit jacket is closer to the modern slim cuts than even most of the '60s slim-cut suit jackets were.


I would place that suit somewhere between '59 and '62 or '63, an era during which I became a young man.

Then as now, the American retail market liked to offer its own definitions/versions of international sartorial trends. And while neither comprehensive nor entirely accurate, it typically divided cuts into three categories which were most commonly labeled Traditional, Ivy league and Continental.

The traditional was commonly fuller cut and more loosely fitted, the Ivy League less fuller cut and a bit more closely fitted, and Continental an imitation and melange of mainly Italian styling with the closest fit.

The suit at issue incorporates incorporate elements of all three, plus slanted pockets and a ticket pocket which were typically intended to connote English styling, but the fit and general cut of the jacket is very similar to what would typically be seen in a "Continental" cut. The Beatles notwithstanding, most English clothing of the era was fuller cut and fitted.

(While released in '64 the film _Goldfinger_ offers good examples of better British tailoring from the period.)


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I would place that suit somewhere between '59 and '62 or '63, an era during which I became a young man.
> 
> Then as now, the American retail market liked to offer its own definitions/versions of international sartorial trends. And while neither comprehensive nor entirely accurate, it typically divided cuts into three categories which were most commonly labeled Traditional, Ivy league and Continental.
> 
> The traditional was commonly fuller cut and more loosely fitted, the Ivy League less fuller cut and a bit more closely fitted, and Continental an imitation and melange of mainly Italian styling with the closest fit.
> 
> The suit at issue incorporates incorporate elements of all three, plus slanted pockets and a ticket pocket which were typically intended to connote English styling, but the fit and general cut of the jacket is very similar to what would typically be seen in a "Continental" cut. The Beatles notwithstanding, most English clothing of the era was fuller cut and fitted.
> 
> (While released in '64 the film _Goldfinger_ offers good examples of better British tailoring from the period.)


Great color on the period - thank you.

Funny, I just watched "Goldfinger" last week for the third, fourth or (um) fiftieth time in my life. My comments (with a brief nod to the suit) here:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...ovie-you-watched.20830/page-1333#post-2532180


----------



## Flanderian

My favorite was likely _From Russia with Love_ due to the absence of most of the gimmicks that became one of the hallmarks of subsequent films, even if the wardrobe was comparatively sedate.

I thought they dressed stocky Mexican actor Pedro Armendáriz as Kerim Bey especially well for his physique.


----------



## rl1856

Flanderian said:


> My favorite was likely _From Russia with Love_ due to the absence of most of the gimmicks that became one of the hallmarks of subsequent films, even if the wardrobe was comparatively sedate.
> 
> I thought they dressed stocky Mexican actor Pedro Armendáriz as Kerim Bey especially well for his physique.


I liked Bond's suit worn near the end of the movie. He and Tatiana are in an Italian hotel suite and encounter Rosa Klebb. Bond is wearing a navy pinstripe suit that looks great.


----------



## rl1856

Fading Fast said:


> It's Friday, time to think about kicking back and having some fun, which, methinks, is what's on these people's minds:
> View attachment 29832


Looks a lot like Don and Betty Draper. In fact I have noticed their appearance resembles many young couples depicted in period advertising. I suspect the resemblance was intentional.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> My favorite was likely _From Russia with Love_ due to the absence of most of the gimmicks that became one of the hallmarks of subsequent films, even if the wardrobe was comparatively sedate.
> 
> I thought they dressed stocky Mexican actor Pedro Armendáriz as Kerim Bey especially well for his physique.


⇧ I agree on the movie - more believable (or, at least, less unbelievable) than most Bond films. And, yes, Kerim Bey wore his clothes well for a not-svelte man.

Also, I always feel bad for Bey when I see that movie. He had a lot going on - he was the underground mayor of a city perilously balancing two superpowers, plus he owned many businesses, plus he had a large family (that he employed), plus, well, he had many woman. He was a man in full.

Then, Bond enters; Bey helps him; Bey gets killed (which messed up so much) and Bond moves on. Not Bond's fault - Bey knew the game he was playing, but still, a shame.



rl1856 said:


> I liked Bond's suit worn near the end of the movie. He and Tatiana are in an Italian hotel suite and encounter Rosa Klebb. Bond is wearing a navy pinstripe suit that looks great.


⇧ Agreed, that is a beautiful suit that's incredibly well tailored.



rl1856 said:


> Looks a lot like Don and Betty Draper. In fact I have noticed their appearance resembles many young couples depicted in period advertising. I suspect the resemblance was intentional.


⇧ Agreed. I think they wanted Mr. and Mrs. "perfect" mid-'50s American couple when they cast for the Don and Betty roles.


----------



## Fading Fast

Pretty sure this is a modern illustration, but it's a good one with a bit of a mid-century echo (but those should have been white bucks with a red sole):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Also, I always feel bad for Bey when I see that movie. He had a lot going on - he was the underground mayor of a city perilously balancing two superpowers, plus he owned many businesses, plus he had a large family (that he employed), plus, well, he had many woman. He was a man in full.
> 
> Then, Bond enters; Bey helps him; Bey gets killed (which messed up so much) and Bond moves on. Not Bond's fault - Bey knew the game he was playing, but still, a shame.


And even more so for poor Pedro Armendáriz who shot himself shortly after filming. Had been suffering from cancer for sometime and was in pain during the filming. Reportedly saw the role as an opportunity for a final bigger payday for his family.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> And even more so for poor Pedro Armendáriz who shot himself shortly after filming. Had been suffering from cancer for sometime and was in pain during the filming. Reportedly saw the role as an opportunity for a final bigger payday for his family.


That's a sad ending and, my guess, he probably didn't get paid that much, but maybe what he did get helped his family a bit.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Pretty sure this is a modern illustration, but it's a good one with a bit of a mid-century echo (but those should have been white bucks with a red sole):
> View attachment 29894


Add a pair of beige hued socks and I would wear that rig in a heartbeat!


----------



## Fading Fast

And back to McGregor:








I owned Haspel versions of the off-white and olive ones years ago.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> And back to McGregor:
> View attachment 29923
> 
> I owned Haspel versions of the off-white and olive ones years ago.


Cool!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
Nice threads, for sure and the brand name has a nice ring to it! Other than Eagle Shirts, is the brand still around? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 29964


I'd happily sport both combined. In fact, the jacket I wore today isn't entirely dissimilar. Hmm . . . ? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I'd happily sport both combined. In fact, the jacket I wore today isn't entirely dissimilar. Hmm . . . ? :icon_scratch:


Does the sport coat's lapel have enough roll over the top button to be considered a 3/2 or is it just a 3-button front sport coat?


----------



## Fading Fast

Since it's Friday, let's assume this guy is heading out from the office for a weekend getaway:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Since it's Friday, let's assume this guy is heading out from the office for a weekend getaway:
> View attachment 29997


Galey and Lord! Another name that brings back memories!

https://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/galey-lord-inc-history/

Gosh, remember when Americans actually made stuff!?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## FLMike

Flanderian said:


> Galey and Lord! Another name that brings back memories!
> 
> https://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/galey-lord-inc-history/
> 
> Gosh, remember when Americans actually made stuff!?


Interesting to see that they call it "khaki" fabric, not "chino". Even dating back to the war, when they were known as the "King of Khaki".

"Khaki itself changed a lot through the decades, especially with the advent of business casual wear. Modern khaki fabrics came in a variety of colors such as tan, putty, olive, black, navy, sage, and chocolate, and Galey & Lord manufactured about 70 percent of its khaki with special sueded or napped finishes during the 1990s."


----------



## Fading Fast

FLMike said:


> Interesting to see that they call it "khaki" fabric, not "chino". Even dating back to the war, when they were known as the "King of Khaki".
> 
> "Khaki itself changed a lot through the decades, especially with the advent of business casual wear. Modern khaki fabrics came in a variety of colors such as tan, putty, olive, black, navy, sage, and chocolate, and Galey & Lord manufactured about 70 percent of its khaki with special sueded or napped finishes during the 1990s."


_khak·i
/ˈkakē/_

_Origin_
_








mid 19th century: from Urdu khākī 'dust-colored', from khāk 'dust', from Persian._

I (obviously) had to look that ⇧ up, but I remembered that the world khaki came from an Indian word for dirt or dust as - originally - I believe the British soldiers, serving in India, rubbed Indian dirt into their uniforms for natural camouflage - which, eventually, led to the British making uniforms in that color for its soldiers serving in India - hence, "British khaki."

From other things I've read and seen over the years, I'd say British khaki is a mustard color (not brown, not tan, not yellow - but mustard). Hence, the suit in the illustration, looks too brown to be traditional British khaki, but as we all know, these terms get used any way Madison Avenue wants to use them - which is why they, eventually, lose most of their original meaning.

Note, I am not setting myself up as an authority on any of the above - I'm just sharing thoughts on things I've read and seen over the years, but am more than willing to learn from / be corrected by others as there always seems to be another fact or bit of information that pops up that adds / changes the story.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 30017


Looks just like *my* dad when he returned from a day of unloading hog carcasses!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Looks just like *my* dad when he returned from a day of unloading hog carcasses!


Not only did my dad not look like that, but the first rule I was taught was "don't bother your father, especially when he just got home from work (or any other time)."


----------



## Fading Fast

Modern, but nice vibe.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Modern, but nice vibe.
> View attachment 30040


Elegantly droll!


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Looks just like *my* dad when he returned from a day of unloading hog carcasses!


Now that is what most would consider to be a pretty upscale slaughterhouse! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Either form the '20s or a modern illustration intended to look '20s retro (my guess, actual '20s), but either way, great illustration.

Also, if you really like the sweater, J.Peterman has a, kinda, similar one in stock (we're buying it for my girlfriend's dad for his - get this - 90th birthday next month - link to and pic of Peterman sweater below):









The Peterman one:








Peterman Sweater:

And this, Babe Ruth wearing his:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Either form the '20s or a modern illustration intended to look '20s retro (my guess, actual '20s), but either way, great illustration.
> 
> Also, if you really like the sweater, J.Peterman has a, kinda, similar one in stock (we're buying it for my girlfriend's dad for his - get this - 90th birthday next month - link to and pic of Peterman sweater below):
> View attachment 30061
> 
> 
> The Peterman one:
> View attachment 30063
> 
> Peterman Sweater:
> 
> And this, Babe Ruth wearing his:
> View attachment 30064


Very cool!

Thank you.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Either form the '20s or a modern illustration intended to look '20s retro (my guess, actual '20s), but either way, great illustration.
> 
> Also, if you really like the sweater, J.Peterman has a, kinda, similar one in stock (we're buying it for my girlfriend's dad for his - get this - 90th birthday next month - link to and pic of Peterman sweater below):
> View attachment 30061
> 
> 
> The Peterman one:
> View attachment 30063
> 
> Peterman Sweater:
> 
> And this, Babe Ruth wearing his:
> View attachment 30064


I've always been a sucker for cardigan designs, but if I were to be able to get any use out of that Peterman design, they would have to offer one made of cotton, rather than 100% lambswool. However I'm also pretty sure that your girlfriends father is going to love that cardigan! Have a great day.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I've always been a sucker for cardigan designs, but if I were to be able to get any use out of that Peterman design, they would have to offer one made of cotton, rather than 100% lambswool. However I'm also pretty sure that your girlfriends father is going to love that cardigan! Have a great day.


Thank you. As I'm sure you can imagine, it should get plenty of use in Michigan. I'm trying to find a legal for-sale copy of that Babe Ruth photo to include with the gift - oddly, despite the pic being all over the web, it's not for sale anywhere. Either way, as you note, it will make a good gift for him.


----------



## Fading Fast

Out of respect for Eagle2250's climate, I thought a Haspel one would be in order for today (pretty sure I haven't post this exact one before - but apologize if I have):


----------



## Fading Fast

No idea of what year, but a good example of the Japanese commitment to keeping the Ivy Style flame burning.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Irrespective of from where derived, great illustration!
> 
> But I'm left to ponder the contrasted modes of dress. Obviously the one figure in engaged in tennis, but what of the other? Is he on his way to a game after removing his jacket? Is he a spectator? I do know in that era tennis was treated as a gentleman's sport, and gentleman's attire was the norm, but the exact nuances of formality elude me.





Fading Fast said:


> Agreed, but I think you also hinted at the answer as, my guess, he's coming from or to a match. There are a few scenes in the 1951 movie "Strangers on a train" with professional tennis players putting on blazers to go to or from the court and - before or after that - getting fully dressed in attire similar to the guy in the illustration to arrive at or leave the stadium.





Flanderian said:


> I've seen photos of players wearing blazers or other jackets to and from matches, such Rene Lacoste below, but I think less common is tie depicted, as all representations I've found are absent one.





Fading Fast said:


> I have my assignment. Next time "Strangers on a Train" is on, I will look carefully for the scenes I mentioned.
> 
> I remember one scene in that movie where the tennis player is in a hurry to leave after his match so he throws on his blazer to leave the court and then has his girlfriend hand him his dress attire (tie, collared shirt, dress pants, sport coat) to put on in the cab, but the implication is he would have changed into those clothes in the locker room if time had permitted it.
> 
> I'm sure you know this, but I'm not trying to argue a point, etc., I just find this stuff interesting and look for any pics, movies, books etc., that can shine some light. There's also a 1951 movie (big year for tennis movies, I guess) "Hard, Fast and Beautiful" about a female tennis prodigy that might shine some light on the question next time it's on.


TCM Alert - "Strangers on a Train" is on 4/20 at 6am (EDT) on TCM.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044079/?ref_=nv_sr_1?ref_=nv_sr_1

https://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/16135/Strangers-on-a-Train/


----------



## Fading Fast

These ads seem to be well liked here:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The illustration posted just above, looks like it could serve well as the photo on the back cover Of a Clive Cussler/Dirk Cussler novel. I like that.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The illustration posted just above, looks like it could serve well as the photo on the back cover Of a Clive Cussler/Dirk Cussler novel. I like that.


I haven't read one in years, but back in the '90s, I read many a Dirk Pitt adventures.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Many of the cover jackets include a photo of Clive Cussler on the right side of one of the mans classic cars, with his son, Dirk positioned on the left. Your earlier post reminded me of that. I think I may have read pretty much every novel Cussler has put out!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Many of the cover jackets include a photo of Clive Cussler on the right side of one of the mans classic cars, with his son, Dirk positioned on the left. Your earlier post reminded me of that. I think I may have read pretty much every novel Cussler has put out!


I've probably read ten or so, but it seems that after the '90s, he started partnering with others to write them. Have you read those - are they the same /better/ not as good?


----------



## Fading Fast

I think the artist captured the man's coat, shirt, tie and hat really well.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I've probably read ten or so, but it seems that after the '90s, he started partnering with others to write them. Have you read those - are they the same /better/ not as good?


I have read Cussler's independent authoring efforts/works, as well those novels he co-authored with (I think it is) six other authors, one of that group being his son Dirk (named after Clive Cussler's character, Dirk Pitt). I've found the co-authored and the individually authored novels to be equally interesting and all have been absorbing and very entertaining.

Cussler is not alone in this bent toward such creative partnerships. Tom Clancy seemed headed in that direction prior to his death and after his untimely passing, his widow has worked entirely with his(Clancy's) co-authors enabling them to independently write books based on story outlines that Clancy had on file. Unfortunately the the novels completed entirely by these former co-authors of Clancy are not of the same quality as when Tom was directly involved in the efforts. The plots are not as complex, nor as historically detailed, as are those original Clancy masterpieces. Alas, even Stephen King has begun co-authoring books with his son. LOL, at least David Baldacci and Dale Brown have yet to fail us in producing solely created completed story lines! Hope springs eternal.


----------



## Fading Fast

From Kamakura Shirts' (which I like a lot) website:


----------



## Fading Fast

Posted in honor of Sunday. As someone who has, ahem, "visited" quite a number of racetracks, I've seen many a _Racing Form_ tucked into a sport coat's pocket just that way (though, I'm way too persnickety about my clothes to do so myself). Away from that, not liking the bowtie matching the pants, if that's what's going on there. That said, still a cool illustration:


----------



## Fading Fast

Seems right for going back to work on Monday:








Love the way the suit material drapes.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Very effective advertisement. Took me back to my days as a rail commuter into downtown Chicago. Assuming the navy suit he is wearing is an HSM, he's wearing my suit! Also the SS&SB rail cars were not that colorful....but more of an oxidized steel hue.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Very effective advertisement. Took me back to my days as a rail commuter into downtown Chicago. Assuming the navy suit he is wearing is an HSM, he's wearing my suit! Also the SS&SB rail cars were not that colorful....but more of an oxidized steel hue.


When I first started working in the '80s, I took the train form NJ into NYC and some of the older railcars (especially when I caught an Amtrak and not Jersey Transit train) looked very similar to that. Also, of course, my early modest wardrobe included a navy suit, white OCBD and rep tie - so, sans the hat, I alighted wearing his outfit many a times.


----------



## Fading Fast

Modern - low rise pants, no socks, etc. - but still a kinda neat illustration:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Seems right for going back to work on Monday:
> View attachment 30215
> 
> Love the way the suit material drapes.


Beautiful illustration!

1957 - 1962 in the flesh! Mr. Cool.


----------



## Fading Fast

True to the thread's title (versus the thematic "drift" I'm often guilty of):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> True to the thread's title (versus the thematic "drift" I'm often guilty of):
> View attachment 30286


How to *not* go unnoticed!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> How to *not* go unnoticed!


I agree, but loud sport coats were more common then, so maybe not as loud then as it appears now. That's more a question than a statement - thoughts?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I agree, but loud sport coats were more common then, so maybe not as loud then as it appears now. That's more a question than a statement - thoughts?


My recollection is that they were more common in ads and fashion layouts than in my neck of the woods. Northern NJ, not so much.


----------



## Flanderian

More likely to see something like this -


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> My recollection is that they were more common in ads and fashion layouts than in my neck of the woods. Northern NJ, not so much.


Growing up in the '70s in the more-pedestrian confines of Central Jersey - and having been taken to the racetrack regularly as a kid - loud sport coats (but '70s versions) were quite common.

As a fan of (read, I watch too many) old movies, there definitely was - at least as represented by Hollywood - a period of louder sport coats in the '50s, but I'll take your first-person report as the most valuable, at least as you note, for your region.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Growing up in the '70s in the more-pedestrian confines of Central Jersey - and having been taken to the racetrack regularly as a kid - loud sport coats (but '70s versions) were quite common.
> 
> As a fan of (read, I watch too many) old movies, there definitely was - at least as represented by Hollywood - a period of louder sport coats in the '50s, but I'll take your first-person report as the most valuable, at least as you note, for your region.


Different locales definitely affect what was worn, regional preferences then being much more distinctive than the current era. We should ask Eagle what he saw around his mid-PA childhood during the same era.


----------



## Fading Fast

Fast forward to the early '70s and that kid kneeling could have been me as we were a (very) frugal family, but I did get a pair of hightop Chuck Taylors from the local Army & Navy store for ~$13 bucks (and I was quite excited about it):


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Different locales definitely affect what was worn, regional preferences then being much more distinctive than the current era. We should ask Eagle what he saw around his mid-PA childhood during the same era.


Paraphrasing the late, great John Denver, "Thank gawd, I was a country boy!" Casual and work clothing ruled. The men in Lock Haven worked at Piper Aircraft, Hammermill Paper Mill, Woolrich Woolen Mills and those living further out worked on farms or in other jobs that had something to do with agriculture. Suits and sport coats of any design were rarely seen, except on Sunday mornings at church and on those occasions, as I recall, they were navy, dark grey or black, mostly solids...not much flash. We lived in the foothills of the Appalachian mountains and it showed.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Paraphrasing the late, great John Denver, "Thank gawd, I was a country boy!" Casual and work clothing ruled. The men in Lock Haven worked at Piper Aircraft, Hammermill Paper Mill, Woolrich Woolen Mills and those living further out worked on farms or in other jobs that had something to do with agriculture. Suits and sport coats of any design were rarely seen, except on Sunday mornings at church and on those occasions, as I recall, they were navy, dark grey or black, mostly solids...not much flash. We lived in the foothills of the Appalachian mountains and it showed.


Lock Haven?


----------



## Fading Fast

For a Good Friday treat, I stumbled upon these. They look more Esquire than our usual fare here (so my apologies to Flanderian if I'm stealing his illustrations), but are too good not to post:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Surely the advice was relevant way back then and it remains relevant today!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Surely the advice was relevant way back then and it remains relevant today!


I agree the advice is good and timeless, but that said, I cut and pasted this from a post I made in another thread about color-coordinating advice for clothing:

_Re the "Esquire Correct Color Guide," for my small brain, some things are better done with a few facts and the rest driven by a feel based on experience.

I've been reading color guides / color wheels / color theory about clothes for over thirty years and really don't remember but a few high level things (and my eyes gloss over anytime I read anything more than three sentence long on the subject), but I have received enough compliments on my attire (and request for guidance from others) to believe I must be doing okay on the color-harmonizing front.

With good natural light, I can toss clothes onto my bed, "see" what colors / hues / tones work well and (most of the time) get it right (or, at least, okay), but darn if digging into that color-wheel stuff doesn't hurt my head._


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> For a Good Friday treat, I stumbled upon these. They look more Esquire than our usual fare here (so my apologies to Flanderian if I'm stealing his illustrations), but are too good not to post:
> View attachment 30341
> View attachment 30342


    
Nice! :beer:


----------



## Fading Fast

And I found one more from the series:








Any thoughts on what the sport coat is supposed to be - pattern/fabric?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> And I found one more from the series:
> View attachment 30362
> 
> Any thoughts on what the sport coat is supposed to be - pattern/fabric?


Nice illustrations, and interesting ensembles!

:beer:


----------



## Fading Fast

A kid in a bowtie and dad's iconic briefcase.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And I found one more from the series:
> View attachment 30362
> 
> Any thoughts on what the sport coat is supposed to be - pattern/fabric?


My best guess...hell, my only guess would be (possibly) houndstooth. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> My best guess...hell, my only guess would be (possibly) houndstooth. :icon_scratch:


A reasonable guess, those would be some big houndsteeth.


----------



## Fading Fast

Is that a sitting and observation lounge in the back?

Nice drape of the suit on the man forward left.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ love the color of those. I'm a fan of muting the color if you amp up the pattern. That said, no force on earth will get me to buy luggage that matches my jacket.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ love the color of those. I'm a fan of muting the color if you amp up the pattern. That said, no force on earth will get me to buy luggage that matches my jacket.


Early '60's, many retailers like rather primitive matchy-matchy!


----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> Is that a sitting and observation lounge in the back?
> 
> Nice drape of the suit on the man forward left.
> View attachment 30414


Forget the drape. Look at the size of the aisle and those airplane seats!


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> ...no force on earth will get me to buy luggage that matches my jacket.


That's not luggage. It's a stadium blanket in a see-through plastic zip-up case.

What makes that Topsman look particularly good, besides the toned-down colors of which I join you in liking, is that the giant triple patch pockets are pattern-matched rather than set on the diagonal, like on most Topsmens. (I have many.) The way the water color is drawn shows a somewhat tailored version rather than the sack which they actually are. Now if that coupe only had a windshield, or that the photo editor had not cropped it so.


----------



## Peak and Pine

...and furthermore, he said after hitting the Submit button on the above, three things about the Pendleton ad would wax nostalgic had I not retained them all along; the two-flip of the sleeve on the button down, the throat button latched on the shirt under the Topsman and the top button buttoned on the jacket. A fourth would have been the JFK haircuts on both had I not opted to ditch that when it all went gray.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> Forget the drape. Look at the size of the aisle and those airplane seats!


I hear ya - hence, my comment about the freakin' "sitting and observation lounge - " what planet is that plane from?



Peak and Pine said:


> That's not luggage. It's a stadium blanket in a see-through plastic zip-up case.
> 
> What makes that Topsman look particularly good, besides the toned-down colors of which I join you in liking, is that the giant triple patch pockets are pattern-matched rather than set on the diagonal, like on most Topsmens. (I have many.) The way the water color is drawn shows a somewhat tailored version rather than the sack which they actually are. Now if that coupe only had a windshield, or that the photo editor had not cropped it so.


Thank you for the correction - makes a bit more sense, but still, I have no desire to match my jacket to my blanket.

Agree completely - the pattern matching is much more aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## London380sl

It's either inspired by the interior of the Graf Zeppelin or, since this ad is from the 60's, it was inspired by the upcoming Boeing 747 which had the upper deck lounge.






I met an ex-stewardess once who used to fly in these planes and she told me one of her inflight tasks was to roast and cut the prime rib for the dinner in the lounge as seen in the above video.

Check out this link to see that the 70's were the "golden age" for travelling.
Pretty amazing when today passengers are shoehorned in into tiny seats and eating tiny meals.
https://www.messynessychic.com/2014...piano-bars-cocktail-lounges-pubs-restaurants/

I would also recommend getting on the messynessychic mailing list. Each Monday she sends out an email with "13 Things I Found On the Internet". It's always a fascinating read.


----------



## Flanderian

London380sl said:


> Forget the drape. Look at the size of the aisle and those airplane seats!


:happy: :happy: :happy:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^

You would agree, would you not, that Ivy, in its day, was uniquely American and that mid 50s was about its starting point? Good. Because now I can get you to agree that there's nothing Ivy about the pics just posted, even tho they're labeled 1958. And that's because they're French. Land of humungus shoulders, apparently. Vous êtes pardonné


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> 
> You would agree, would you not, that Ivy, in its day, was uniquely American and that mid 50s was about its starting point? Good. Because now I can get you to agree that there's nothing Ivy about the pics just posted, even tho they're labeled 1958. And that's because they're French. Land of humungus shoulders, apparently. Vous êtes pardonné


I agree with all ⇧ and am guessing you are referring to the thread's title, which was long ago abandoned by practice of, sometimes, posting non-Ivy clothing illustrations from the '30s - '60s.

I try to return to Ivy (as have others) when I can (which is regularly), but also think (please let me know if I am wrong) others enjoy having fresh pics, which requires a wider parameter.

If I could, I'd edit the title, but most threads drift a lot anyway.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Sure. That's fine. I come late to this and thought it was Ivy inspired, the earlier vintage being left to the endless thread from Esquire.

What's interesting about your latest post is the Ivy time frame transported to France where it apparently wasn't Ivy at all, then or now. C'est la vie. Keep the posts coming. I like the idealized way the ads portray a period the ad makers wanted to be all White and Anglo, which of course it wasn't, except in certain enclaves, like the one from which I sprouted.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 30432


Wish I was built like that!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Barrister & Solicitor

Flanderian said:


> Wish I was built like that!


This is what pâté, brie cheese and Bordeau wine does to your silhouette.


----------



## Flanderian

Barrister & Solicitor said:


> This is what pâté, brie cheese and Bordeau wine does to your silhouette.


No, I can testify it most assuredly does the opposite!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wish I was built like that!


⇧ Superman wishes he was built like that.

And for today ⇩, what do you think Flanderian - is it sandwiched herringbone?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Superman wishes he was built like that.
> 
> And for today ⇩, what do you think Flanderian - is it sandwiched herringbone?
> View attachment 30448


LOL. It looks more like grilled steak and veggies to me. Gotta keep one's priorities straight...first food, then clothing! 

PS: Did real people ever wear coats and ties to a barbecue? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. It looks more like grilled steak and veggies to me. Gotta keep one's priorities straight...first food, then clothing!
> 
> PS: Did real people ever wear coats and ties to a barbecue? :icon_scratch:


Hollywood is not the real world, but sometimes (only sometimes) it reflects it, so who knows how accurately this below photo reflects what real people were doing (and the clothes they were wearing to barbecues), but it's a pic from a backyard barbecue scene from the 1957 movie "No Down Payment."









My comments on the movie itself, if you care, are here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...ovie-you-watched.20830/page-1273#post-2431392


----------



## Fading Fast

And stumbled upon this barbecue one also - no description, but I'm sure it's an ad for something, so, again, doesn't mean people dressed this way in real life. Sport coats, bowties and pearls at a barbecue.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> And stumbled upon this barbecue one also - no description, but I'm sure it's an ad for something, so, again, doesn't mean people dressed this way in real life. Sport coats, bowties and pearls at a barbecue.
> View attachment 30459


Very nice!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Superman wishes he was built like that.
> 
> And for today ⇩, what do you think Flanderian - is it sandwiched herringbone?
> View attachment 30448


Cool! 

I like it!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Cool!
> 
> I like it!


Do you think it's a sandwiched herringbone?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Do you think it's a sandwiched herringbone?


Only when I'm on a roll! :happy:


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Only when I'm on a roll! :happy:


Sigh. Well, okay, that wasn't bad.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Sigh. Well, okay, that wasn't bad.


Whatcha' mean!? It was awful!   

If there is a specific, universally agreed to definition of the term _sandwich stripe_, I am unaware of it. However, prior experience with similar issues strongly suggests there isn't, opinions to the contrary not withstanding!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Hollywood is not the real world, but sometimes (only sometimes) it reflects it, so who knows how accurately this below photo reflects what real people were doing (and the clothes they were wearing to barbecues), but it's a pic from a backyard barbecue scene from the 1957 movie "No Down Payment."
> View attachment 30450
> 
> 
> My comments on the movie itself, if you care, are here: https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...ovie-you-watched.20830/page-1273#post-2431392


Enjoyed your critique of the "No Down Payment" movie...very well done! Thanks for mentioning it.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Enjoyed your critique of the "No Down Payment" movie...very well done! Thanks for mentioning it.


It plays on TCM (Turner Classic Movie) from time to time - well worth watching for the story, but also for the period clothes, cars, etc.


----------



## Fading Fast

It's 1977 and Japan was doing more to keep the flame of Ivy burning than the US was.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hmm, no love for yesterday's illustration ⇧.

Okay, let's go old-school-classic style today.

I went to the exhibit in this illustration back when it was at the museum - it was outstanding.


----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> Hmm, no love for yesterday's illustration ⇧.
> 
> Okay, let's go old-school-classic style today.
> 
> I went to the exhibit in this illustration back when it was at the museum - it was outstanding.
> 
> View attachment 30545


Outstanding you say! Well, let's take a walk through with Richard Press as our guide and find out.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> Out standing you say! Well let's take a walk through with Richard Press and find out.


Wonderful video. Thank you for posting. It was such a fun exhibit to see.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Hmm, no love for yesterday's illustration ⇧.
> 
> Okay, let's go old-school-classic style today.
> 
> I went to the exhibit in this illustration back when it was at the museum - it was outstanding.
> 
> View attachment 30545


Terrific, thank you! I'll take one of each!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Terrific, thank you! I'll take one of each!


That's how I felt at the exhibit. If you could have bought the items, I'd have come home broke.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
This is why I leave the basting stitches in the pockets of my suit and sport coats and blazers. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> This is why I leave the basting stitches in the pockets of my suit and sport coats and blazers. LOL.


I do the same. Unfortunately, the tailor doesn't always remember to leave them in.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> This is why I leave the basting stitches in the pockets of my suit and sport coats and blazers. LOL.





Fading Fast said:


> I do the same. Unfortunately, the tailor doesn't always remember to leave them in.


As a salesman for many years, in and out of offices and an auto, my suit was an extension of my of my desk with a place for everything without stuffing the pockets. My outside left pocket carried (And still does!) a clean white handkerchief, as it has since a boy. My right outside pocket carried keys and a business card holder. My left inside pocket a pen and/or mechanical pencil. An my right a tiny calculator.

Probably been lucky, but never had the desire to stuff my paws in 'em, as depicted.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> As a salesman for many years, in and out of offices and an auto, my suit was an extension of my of my desk with a place for everything without stuffing the pockets. My outside left pocket carried (And still does!) a clean white handkerchief, as it has since a boy. My right outside pocket carried keys and a business card holder. My left inside pocket a pen and/or mechanical pencil. An my right a tiny calculator.
> 
> Probably been lucky, but never had the desire to stuff my paws in 'em, as depicted.


I fully support anyone's desire to use every single pocket, button, tab, closure, etc., on an item of clothing - that's what they are there for (except for some clearly vestigial ones). For me, I'm willing to sacrifice some functionality for a surface aesthetic, but I don't think anyone else should follow me or is wrong for not.

My dad was a professional gamble and bookmaker (we didn't acknowledge the latter until after he passed away) and always had pads, paper, pens, "lines," "runs," "slips," etc., in every single pocket of his sport coat or suit jacket as, like you, it often served as his "mobile office." I can still see him loading or unloading his pockets every day - it took some time to do.


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple for Sunday.

⇩ No logic to posting a Christmas one now other than that I'm curious what others think about his outfit - grey wool trousers or something else? Also, are those black penny loafers he's sporting? As to her outfit, very Mary Tyler Moore circa "The Dick Van ****" show - no? And doesn't he look like Richard Anderson (aka Oscar Goldman from "The Six Million Dollar Man")?









⇩ While you can't see the menswear in this one well and, my guess, it's a modern illustration, what you can see of the men's outfits has a nice classic vibe.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A couple for Sunday.
> 
> ⇩ No logic to posting a Christmas one now other than that I'm curious what others think about his outfit - grey wool trousers or something else? Also, are those black penny loafers he's sporting? As to her outfit, very Mary Tyler Moore circa "The Dick Van ****" show - no? And doesn't he look like Richard Anderson (aka Oscar Goldman from "The Six Million Dollar Man")?
> View attachment 30592
> 
> 
> ⇩ While you can't see the menswear in this one well and, my guess, it's a modern illustration, what you can see of the men's outfits has a nice classic vibe.
> View attachment 30593


Top-flight!

Beautiful and charming illustrations!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Indeed, the gentleman putting the Angel on the tree is about to take an unscheduled flight lesson, perhaps practicing a forced landing without power. In any event, I'm pretty certain he will fully accessorize his outfit, as he falls through that tree!


----------



## Fading Fast

Not sure what's going on in this ad as most of the text is too small (or too fuzzy when I enlarge the pic) to read, but clearly Gregory Peck is promoting the suits.

Of course, his most famous suit connection is in the movie "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" where he wears a sack suit, but these seem more stylish.










Peck in the gray flannel suit:


----------



## eagle2250

^^Perhaps not civilian attire, but Peck wore some pretty wicked Army-Air Corps uniform combinations in the movie Twelve O'clock High. I particularly liked the Trench coats.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Perhaps not civilian attire, but Peck wore some pretty wicked Army-Air Corps uniform combinations in the movie Twelve O'clock High. I particularly liked the Trench coats.


Absolutely - he rocks both a trench coat and classic leather bomber jacket (from memory) in that insanely good movie. IMHO, on of the best WWII movies of them all.

Dean Jagger is ridiculously good in that movie as well - a very talented actor all but forgotten today.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not sure what's going on in this ad as most of the text is too small (or too fuzzy when I enlarge the pic) to read, but clearly Gregory Peck is promoting the suits.
> 
> Of course, his most famous suit connection is in the movie "The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit" where he wears a sack suit, but these seem more stylish.
> 
> View attachment 30622
> 
> 
> Peck in the gray flannel suit:
> View attachment 30623


Great!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Absolutely - he rocks both a trench coat and classic leather bomber jacket (from memory) in that insanely good movie. IMHO, on of the best WWII movies of them all.
> 
> Dean Jagger is ridiculously good in that movie as well - a very talented actor all but forgotten today.


Indeed, as I recall, the movie opens up with Jagger's character having just purchased a new chapeau, just prior to discovering that old Pirates Mug that had been used to announce upcoming missions, for sale in an adjacent antique shop. Years ago I taught a course in comparative leadership styles, to prospective new Air Force officers, using the movie Twelve O'Clock High to provide the memes necessary to facilitate our study. Love that movie! :beer:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 30652


This gent looks cool in both the literal and figurative sense!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> This gent looks cool in both the literal and figurative sense!


Agreed, Peck's image from "The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit" seemed to inspire this one. Peck's pretty high up there on the cool scale.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
A Norman Rockwell perspective on campus life in the 1940's/1950's. Must be a "highbrow" southern school for the dorm rooms to be fitted with those plantation shutters?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> A Norman Rockwell perspective on campus life in the 1940's/1950's. Must be a "highbrow" southern school for the dorm rooms to be fitted with those plantation shutters?


It definitely wasn't a certain State University in NJ in the '80s.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 30694


Beautiful illustration! Thanks!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Beautiful illustration! Thanks!


It's a really good one and some great clothing details (socks, loafers, sweatshirt).


----------



## Fading Fast

Summer and madras coming and all that:


----------



## London380sl

Judging from that jacket length that has to be a recent illustration.
Madras jackets must be an American thing. Like seersucker suits I've yet to see anybody wear one in Canada. Even madras shirts are fairly uncommon.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> Judging from that jacket length that has to be a recent illustration.
> Madras jackets must be an American thing. Like seersucker suits I've yet to see anybody wear one in Canada. Even madras shirts are fairly uncommon.


Good eye on the length. I agree re madras/seersucker, but it's also fair to say that Japan's Ivy culture has also embraced them.

I love the exaggerated natural shoulder in the illustration and the way the artist captured the loafers and turned-up trouser bottoms.


----------



## Flanderian

London380sl said:


> Madras jackets must be an American thing.


And gloriously so! irate:

Though I favor more discreet and darker variants such as this -










However, the madras suit should be avoided, especially when it is your little brothers'.


----------



## London380sl

Yikes! That looks more like a shrunken clown suit. I didn't even know madras suits existed. For good reason, I might add if this is a another representative suit.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Good eye on the length. I agree re madras/seersucker, but it's also fair to say that Japan's Ivy culture has also embraced them.
> 
> I love the exaggerated natural shoulder in the illustration and the way the artist captured the loafers and turned-up trouser bottoms.


If those shoulders were any more exaggerated, they would be raglan sleeves. Lord Raglan would be pleased. Baron Raglan was said to have worn a jacket fitted with raglan sleeves, after loosing an arm in battle during the Battle of Waterloo. Thank you Siri for that interesting tidbit of sartorial history!


----------



## Fading Fast

In honor of Derby Day tomorrow.


----------



## Fading Fast

It's Derby Day!











































As someone who has, um, er, been to a racetrack a "few" times in his life, I can report that the apron (as seen in the third pic up from the bottom) is no longer populated by men wearing suits and ties and women in elegant dresses and hats.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> In honor of Derby Day tomorrow.
> View attachment 30737





Fading Fast said:


> It's Derby Day!
> View attachment 30779
> View attachment 30780
> View attachment 30781
> View attachment 30782
> View attachment 30783
> View attachment 30784
> 
> As someone who has, um, er, been to a racetrack a "few" times in his life, I can report that the apron (as seen in the third pic up from the bottom) is no longer populated by men wearing suits and ties and women in elegant dresses and hats.


Wow, the mother-load!

Great illustrations!

Methinks we have a horse fancier.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> It's Derby Day!
> View attachment 30779
> View attachment 30780
> View attachment 30781
> View attachment 30782
> View attachment 30783
> View attachment 30784
> 
> As someone who has, um, er, been to a racetrack a "few" times in his life, I can report that the apron (as seen in the third pic up from the bottom) is no longer populated by men wearing suits and ties and women in elegant dresses and hats.


The timing of the post above was absolutely perfect and the sartorial choices on display are classics, each and every one.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wow, the mother-load!
> 
> Great illustrations!
> 
> Methinks we have a horse fancier.





eagle2250 said:


> The timing of the post above was absolutely perfect and the sartorial choices on display are classics, each and every one.


Thank you gentleman - I had fun finding and posting them.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, my dad was a professional gambler and bookmaker. Once a year, when I was a little kid, I was allowed to go to the track with my dad - I guess it was my parents odd way of having our own personal take-your-kid-to-work day.

My girlfriend says there's no reason on earth I should have turned out reasonably normal from my upbringing, but as crazy as it sounds, he treated it as a job and we lived a humble but somewhat normal day-to-day life. Anyway, here I am, a taxpayer who makes an honest living - so it couldn't have been that bad.

All that said, horse racing has been a part of my life since I was a kid. Up until a few years ago, my girlfriend and I went up to Saratoga racetrack for several days each summer and we still get out to Belmont a few times a season. For me, it's funny to go to the track as a purely entertainment event after having lived with my father's very serious business approach to it.

And now, to somehow tie this back to AAAC and not just a personal-ramble piece, the race track used to be - even in the '60s/'70s when I went as a kid - a sartorial show with everything from the swells dressed to the nines to the humblest of $2 betters usually making and effort with a seen-better-days sport coat and tie.

Now, you'll still see a few people in the clubhouse (the fancy seating) dressing nicely, but in general, it's like every place else in America - jeans, t-shirts, hoodies, sneakers, sweats and worse.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you gentleman - I had fun finding and posting them.
> 
> I'm sure I've mentioned this before, my dad was a professional gambler and bookmaker. Once a year, when I was a little kid, I was allowed to go to the track with my dad - I guess it was my parents odd way of having our own personal take-your-kid-to-work day.
> 
> My girlfriend says there's no reason on earth I should have turned out reasonably normal from my upbringing, but as crazy as it sounds, he treated it as a job and we lived a humble but somewhat normal day-to-day life. Anyway, here I am, a taxpayer who makes an honest living - so it couldn't have been that bad.
> 
> All that said, horse racing has been a part of my life since I was a kid. Up until a few years ago, my girlfriend and I went up to Saratoga racetrack for several days each summer and we still get out to Belmont a few times a season. For me, it's funny to go to the track as a purely entertainment event after having lived with my father's very serious business approach to it.
> 
> And now, to somehow tie this back to AAAC and not just a personal-ramble piece, the race track used to be - even in the '60s/'70s when I went as a kid - a sartorial show with everything from the swells dressed to the nines to the humblest of $2 betters usually making and effort with a seen-better-days sport coat and tie.
> 
> Now, you'll still see a few people in the clubhouse (the fancy seating) dressing nicely, but in general, it's like every place else in America - jeans, t-shirts, hoodies, sneakers, sweats and worse.


You're not alone in a somewhat Runyonesque upbringing as bookies were rife in mine and generally considered reasonably upstanding members of the community absent any serious thuggery. The biggest pitfall seemed to be that some became too enamored of their profession to where it ceased to be a livelihood and became instead a compulsion.

But that era is far removed, the profession now coopted by the government and big business. (Is there a difference!? )

Why are the Feds so rough on organized crime? They don't want any competition! Rimshot! :laughing:

(Just kiddin', I'm a Federalist.)


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> You're not alone in a somewhat Runyonesque upbringing as bookies were rife in mine and generally considered reasonably upstanding members of the community absent any serious thuggery. The biggest pitfall seemed to be that some became too enamored of their profession to where it ceased to be a livelihood and became instead a compulsion.
> 
> But that era is far removed, the profession now coopted by the government and big business. (Is there a difference!? )
> 
> Why are the Feds so rough on organized crime? They don't want any competition! Rimshot! :laughing:
> 
> (Just kiddin', I'm a Federalist.)


You clearly understand the zeitgeist of that period. There was no thuggery (if you knew my dad - which of course you didn't, so I fully understand your comment - you'd get how silly that idea is), it was all done on trust and "know your client." And, yes, he wrote plenty of bad debts off - the movies make things seem very different than they were, at least in my experience.

As to upstanding, my entire life, people who knew my father would say how your dad's word / his handshake was as good as any signed contract or certified check. His world was Runyonesque (great call) as his life and that time were just so different than today.

And, yes, the gov't has become the book through lotteries and its massive tax take of casinos (all controlled through licensing). It's an amazing morality that put the small time bookies out of business only to be replaced with the state itself and - and there are studies out there that argue so - much worse payouts which, of course, means that the poor and working classes were (and still are), effectively, forced into a gov't book that takes a much bigger cut of their money than the bookies ever did (and, then, takes a second cut via taxing the winnings).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> You clearly understand the zeitgeist of that period. There was no thuggery (if you knew my dad - which of course you didn't, so I fully understand your comment - you'd get how silly that idea is), it was all done on trust and "know your client." And, yes, he wrote plenty of bad debts off - the movies make things seem very different than they were, at least in my experience.
> 
> As to upstanding, my entire life, people who knew my father would say how your dad's word / his handshake was as good as any signed contract or certified check. His world was Runyonesque (great call) as his life and that time were just so different than today.
> 
> And, yes, the gov't has become the book through lotteries and its massive tax take of casinos (all controlled through licensing). It's an amazing morality that put the small time bookies out of business only to be replaced with the state itself and - and there are studies out there that argue so - much worse payouts which, of course, means that the poor and working classes were (and still are), effectively, forced into a gov't book that takes a much bigger cut of their money than the bookies ever did (and, then, takes a second cut via taxing the winnings).


No, I was not suggesting that your dad might have engaged in thuggery, as you stated the "punishment" for wagerers who didn't pay was that they simply then had no place to place bets. But there were a few individuals who saw it as entry into less savory activities.

As a NJ native, I am supremely cynical regarding many motives of government, and you characterize that superbly in your description of the government's entry into gaming. Hint: Neither those playing, or those paying (taxes) are likely to be the prime beneficiaries.


----------



## Fading Fast

In honor of our recent conversation about bookies:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> In honor of our recent conversation about bookies:
> View attachment 30836
> View attachment 30837
> View attachment 30838


Delightful! :beer:

Bookmaking is legal in the UK, but then the Brits do manage to be a bit more civilized in some regards.

I remember when NJ started a lottery. "It will pay for education!" Yeah . . . .










Now if I feel an urge to buy a lottery ticket, I just run a $20 through the shredder instead.


----------



## eagle2250

^^


Flanderian said:


> Delightful! :beer:
> 
> Bookmaking is legal in the UK, but then the Brits do manage to be a bit more civilized in some regards.
> 
> I remember when NJ started a lottery. "It will pay for education!" Yeah . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if I feel an urge to buy a lottery ticket, I just run a $20 through the shredder instead.


....and you probably win just as often as you would if the $20 were spent on lottery tickets! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Many AAAC members (myself included) have lived this morning decisioning moment. Although, I've never owned a Chelsea boot.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 30855
> 
> Many AAAC members (myself included) have lived this morning decisioning moment. Although, I've never owned a Chelsea boot.


You put your shoes in a 300° arc, place one arm akimbo and rub your chin as you make your selection?

Admirable. As is your decision on Chelseas; get a shoe or get a boot, no wimping out with a tweener.


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> You put your shoes in a 300° arc, place one arm akimbo and rub your chin as you make your selection?
> 
> Admirable. As is your decision on Chelseas; get a shoe or get a boot, no wimping out with a tweener.


I meant it a bit less literal, but I have stared at the bottom of my closet with a quizzical look on my face.

Maybe, to your point, since I have shoes and boots already, I don't see much reason for the Chelsea. I've owned - like most AAAC members - a lot of shoes and boots over the years, and while I think the Chelsea boot looks okay, they don't inspire me. Hence, instead, I own several versions of Chukkas, but no Chelseas.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 30855
> 
> Many AAAC members (myself included) have lived this morning decisioning moment. Although, I've never owned a Chelsea boot.





Fading Fast said:


> I meant it a bit less literal, but I have stared at the bottom of my closet with a quizzical look on my face.
> 
> Maybe, to your point, since I have shoes and boots already, I don't see much reason for the Chelsea. I've owned - like most AAAC members - a lot of shoes and boots over the years, and while I think the Chelsea boot looks okay, they don't inspire me. Hence, instead, I own several versions of Chukkas, but no Chelseas.


This fellow has it easy by comparison: Eagle must first dig his way to top of a 20' mound before he can even *ponder* the issue!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 30855
> 
> Many AAAC members (myself included) have lived this morning decisioning moment. Although, I've never owned a Chelsea boot.


It's time to fill that gap in your footwear wardrobe. Have you considered RM Williams Craftsman Boot design?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> It's time to fill that gap in your footwear wardrobe. Have you considered RM Williams Craftsman Boot design?


I don't dislike them - my girlfriend has a few and they look nice on her - but they don't inspire me enough that I want a pair.

And it's not as if I'm lacking for boots - I have several Alden dress boots (being Alden, though, they are not "pretty" dress boots), several chukkas (with a full sleeve of desert boots in there), a 1000-miler, a Bean hiker and too many Bean "hunting" boots to count (used in NYC rainstorms, but rarely near anything considered "nature").

With all those, I just don't feel any desire to add a Chelsea one. If I do add a boot - and I really can't even fake claim to need any more - it will be a light-tan suede lace up, but right now, I don't wear half the boots I have.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

My minimalist approach jumps from LHS to Luccheses, not even an Oxford between them. The decision making process is very simple.


----------



## Fading Fast

A fun one - I'm an old diner fan. While I like his bowtie and sport coat, if I can have one thing from the illustration, I'm going for a piece of cake under one of those glass domes.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hard to follow yesterday's.

Feels '60s "The Avengers" era to me:









I respect a high rise, but this is too much for me:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I appreciate a high rise waist, but those strike me as more of a Steve Urkel waist than a high rise design. The wearer appears to be all legs and no torso. LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Hard to follow yesterday's.
> 
> Feels '60s "The Avengers" era to me:
> View attachment 30909
> 
> 
> I respect a high rise, but this is too much for me:
> View attachment 30910


The top definitely looks mid to late '60's to me. The bottom, '30's in which the illustrator went a bit wild.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> The top definitely looks mid to late '60's to me. The bottom, '30's in which the illustrator went a bit wild.


I thought '30s or early '50s, but I'm sure you're right. And either way, we know that illustrator is no Fellows.


----------



## Fading Fast

It's Friday and methinks this gentleman is attempting to avoid a Sam Cooke Saturday Night.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> It's Friday and methinks this gentleman is attempting to avoid a Sam Cooke Saturday Night.
> View attachment 30927


A Boxer handing with a shark, both hoping to get lucky...yes, no? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hard to tell, today I'd say sneakers, but owing to the time period, I'm guessing those are white bucks on his feet - thoughts?


----------



## eagle2250

^^They have to be white bucks.
Back in the good old days, they didn't put black soles on white sneakers. The tiny waisted minx has all three of her family members dancing to the crack of her whip...or perhaps their just celebrating Mother's Day in their own special way! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^They have to be white bucks.
> Back in the good old days, they didn't put black soles on white sneakers. The tiny waisted minx has all three of her family members dancing to the crack of her whip...or perhaps their just celebrating Mother's Day in their own special way! LOL.


Good call on the bucks. And, yes, it's Mother's Day or she runs a tight ship all the time.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 30948
> 
> Hard to tell, today I'd say sneakers, but owing to the time period, I'm guessing those are white bucks on his feet - thoughts?


White bucks, black rubber soles. Despite the more classic brick red crepe variant, black rubber was also used.


----------



## Fading Fast

For Mother's Day


----------



## Fading Fast

And one more


----------



## eagle2250

In the post above it appears mom is in all probability married to a military man of one of those other road warriors who is frequently not at home, leaving mom as the one who must step in and fill the gap created by the husbands absence, in this instance serving as the technician assembling a toy received by junior on a birthday, Christmas or some other holiday! Most moms are more than just a mom, having frequently to serve as both the mamma and the papa!  Sorry...I wandered off on a daydream for a moment there.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> For Mother's Day
> View attachment 30968
> View attachment 30969
> View attachment 30970
> View attachment 30971





Fading Fast said:


> And one more
> View attachment 30973


Charming, thank you!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Charming, thank you!


Glad you enjoyed them. You might get a kick out of this, my mom hated cooking, rarely did it and, therefore and not surprisingly, it wasn't often that I saw her in the kitchen as in those iconic '50s illustrations above.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Glad you enjoyed them. You might get a kick out of this, my mom hated cooking, rarely did it and, therefore and not surprisingly, it wasn't often that I saw her in the kitchen as in those iconic '50s illustrations above.


My mother spent copious amounts of time in the kitchen; it was her kingdom, and she prided herself upon her cooking (Not great, I'm afraid.) though less so on her baking (Which was actually remarkable.) But coming late in life to this granddaughter of a Civil War veteran, she was by my childhood in the '50's no Betty Crocker, rather, the term Zoftig comes to mind!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> My mother spent copious amounts of time in the kitchen; it was her kingdom, and she prided herself upon her cooking (Not great, I'm afraid.) though less so on her baking (Which was actually remarkable.) But coming late in life to this granddaughter of a Civil War veteran, she was by my childhood in the '50's no Betty Crocker, rather, the term Zoftig comes to mind!


My mom, now, 86, was 5'3" +/- 100lbs her entire life until the last ten or so years as she's shrunk down to 5' and 90lbs. I'm afraid that if the trend continues she's going to go poof one day like the Great Gazoo.

Kidding aside, she eats well and the doctors aren't concerned, but she is shrinking.

That's a long aside to this, I have many images of my mom in my head, but neatly attired and preparing food in the kitchen is not one of them. Nor is helping me assemble - anything - not her thing at all.

Perhaps it's why I enjoy the "perfect" images from the '50s so much - they were very different from what I grew up with in the '70s.


----------



## Fading Fast

Back to work on a Monday (slim suits, good proportions):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Back to work on a Monday (slim suits, good proportions):
> View attachment 30998


Interesting that both figures are wearing shirts with white collars. The idea TNSIL was devoid of such just isn't factual. I"ll take the tweed on the left. (Need it today! :cold


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Interesting that both figures are wearing shirts with white collars. The idea TNSIL was devoid of such just isn't factual. I"ll take the tweed on the left. (Need it today! :cold


Both period pics and the true Ivy-era guys I worked with in the '80s and '90s (most are off Wall Street by now) argue that contrasting white collared shirts (must be a better way to say that) were part of the era's attire. This can get really argumentative - so I'm happy to learn from and be corrected by others - but in addition to the two points above, Press and BB regularly showed contrasting white collared shirts in their advertising from the '50s and '60s. Also, I've seen pics (and movies) that show college kids in the '50s and '60s wearing them as well - in theory, the heart of Ivy. Just my two cents.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Both period pics and the true Ivy-era guys I worked with in the '80s and '90s (most are off Wall Street by now) argue that contrasting white collared shirts (must be a better way to say that) were part of the era's attire. This can get really argumentative - so I'm happy to learn from and be corrected by others - but in addition to the two points above, Press and BB regularly showed contrasting white collared shirts in their advertising from the '50s and '60s. Also, I've seen pics (and movies) that show college kids in the '50s and '60s wearing them as well - in theory, the heart of Ivy. Just my two cents.


Right on all counts, Sir, from my experience. Never a dominant form, but always an option.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 31013


Boy, does that bring back memories!

Look at those 1 1/2" lapels. Eagle was an aspirational brand for me as a youngster. Upper middle quality clothing that was fashionable, but offered solid quality.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Boy, does that bring back memories!
> 
> Look at those 1 1/2" lapels. Eagle was an aspirational brand for me as a youngster. Upper middle quality clothing that was fashionable, but offered solid quality.


It's a handsome suit - perfect drape / perfect tailoring.


----------



## Fading Fast

Saddle shoes, cuffed chinos, "fun" socks and loving dog.


----------



## Fading Fast

Text is a little hard to read, but I think the fabric is rayon (yuck), but from just looking at it, I like the suit.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Text is a little hard to read, but I think the fabric is rayon (yuck), but from just looking at it, I like the suit.
> View attachment 31064


Wonderful illustration! I'm there, this style works for me, even the tangerine! 

These ancient eyes aren't going to be able to plumb that tiny text, but rayon was a very popular fiber in clothing for many decades, including as a component in various iterations of the well regarded Palm Beach Cloth.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wonderful illustration! I'm there, this style works for me, even the tangerine!
> 
> These ancient eyes aren't going to be able to plumb that tiny text, but rayon was a very popular fiber in clothing for many decades, including as a component in various iterations of the well regarded Palm Beach Cloth.


It's all context: A 1950s Wall St. boardroom and that suit looks ridiculous; a 1950s vacation in Mexico - spot on.


----------



## London380sl

Or a vacation in Quebec City. That's the Chateau Frontenac in the background.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cool briefcase first two and last panel:








Also, good looking eggs and bacon 1st and last panel.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Outstanding spread!
How many of us remember enjoying the local Drug Store Soda Fountain(s) in our younger days? It sure would be nice to be able to turn back the calendar! :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Outstanding spread!
> How many of us remember enjoying the local Drug Store Soda Fountain(s) in our younger days? It sure would be nice to be able to turn back the calendar! :icon_scratch:


In my childhood home that era had unfortunately come and gone. While there were still soda fountains, they were no longer the gathering places they had once been. My sisters were 15 and 16 years older than me, and in their youth, they would fondly remember their adolescent evenings spent in them along with their friends and a jukebox during WWII.


----------



## Barrister & Solicitor

London380sl said:


> Or a vacation in Quebec City. That's the Chateau Frontenac in the background.


You are absolutely right London380Sl, along with a glimpse a house from the basse ville underneath Château Frontenac.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Outstanding spread!
> How many of us remember enjoying the local Drug Store Soda Fountain(s) in our younger days? It sure would be nice to be able to turn back the calendar! :icon_scratch:


I was born in '64 and remember the lunch counter at Woolworths being a super treat. The town I grew up in also had an old soda shoppe (yup, spelled that way) which was awesome (even my never-part-with-a-dollar dad like to get a root beer float there occasionally - which meant one for me too!).

Not in my town - and I don't remember where - but I did have a soda at a drug store counter with my grandmother once (she died when I was very young, so my memory is vague on details).

All that stuff was fun and, in memory at least, more special than going to a fast food restaurant today - which, clearly, is what won out in the market place.

And in honor of Eagle's reminiscence:







Note the saddle shoes ⇩


----------



## eagle2250

^^Well thank you so much.
Lock Haven's soda fountain was located in our local Woolworth's and our local drug store also had a soda fountain, but for the life of me I can't remember the name of the family that owned and operated that drug store. I had some great pick-up lines I used, as opportunities presented themselves, at those counters. Alas, the fishing conditions were ripe, but the catching was few and far between. However, those lines of BS sure were smooth! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Well thank you so much.
> Lock Haven's soda fountain was located in our local Woolworth's and our local drug store also had a soda fountain, but for the life of me I can't remember the name of the family that owned and operated that drug store. I had some great pick-up lines I used, as opportunities presented themselves, at those counters. Alas, the fishing conditions were ripe, but the catching was few and far between. However, those lines of BS sure were smooth! LOL.


What's a shame is that we (at least I) didn't realize how special all those moment were when we were young. It wasn't until my mid-30s that I started to appreciate the "small" things - the day-to-day good stuff - that can fly by.

And who ever thought that so many of those places - lunch counters / soda shops / drive-ins / etc. - would all but disappear in only a few decades.


----------



## ran23

Woolworth's had the best chocolate syrup, similar lunch counter in my hometown.


----------



## Fading Fast

ran23 said:


> Woolworth's had the best chocolate syrup, similar lunch counter in my hometown.


I wish I could say I remember it specifically - sounds great.

I do remember going to Chock Full o' Nuts restaurants and getting a date nut bread with cream cheese sandwich as a kid and splitting it with my mom (it was as heavy as it sounds). If you hadn't experienced those restaurants, it's hard to believe - at least in large east coast cities - how popular they were. 









And an illustration


----------



## Flanderian

Once-upon-a-time, best ice cream in NJ!


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ My mom grew up in the depression and they were poor - period, poor. The biggest treat of her childhood was the very rare trip to Schrafft's for an ice cream cone with her mother. 

Somewhere, I have a pic of her mom and some other women (but not my mom - maybe she took the pic) at Schrafft's (in the '40s or '50s) - if I find it, I'll post it. 

The store in that bottom pic is gorgeous.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ My mom grew up in the depression and they were poor - period, poor. The biggest treat of her childhood was the very rare trip to Schrafft's for an ice cream cone with her mother.
> 
> Somewhere, I have a pic of her mom and some other women (but not my mom - maybe she took the pic) at Schrafft's (in the '40s or '50s) - if I find it, I'll post it.
> 
> The store in that bottom pic is gorgeous.


The interior is from A Gruning's ice cream parlor, I don't know which, as they had several around Essex County NJ. Their main location was in South Orange where they made the ice cream.

During my boyhood in the early '50's northern NJ still had a surprising number of smaller ice cream makers, many making particularly fine ice cream. One was Welsh Farms, HQ in Long Valley. (But which is now just a purchased name.)

And a hot summer night would sometimes bring as a treat a ride to Taylor's Milk Bar in Cedar Grove. Great ice cream and other dairy. One evening while chasing lightening bugs (I.e., fire flies) behind their stand I was startled by a large shape emerging from the darkness toward me only to learn it was a curious cow from the farm's dairy heard. 



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 31149


Nice outfit!


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Great memories - enjoyable to hear them.

Re, the outfit: The Japanese have a love of American Ivy that is really enjoyable despite it being a bit quirky that an American stye of dress from 50+ years ago has, probably, a stronger presence in Japan than America today.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Great memories - enjoyable to hear them.
> 
> Re, the outfit: The Japanese have a love of American Ivy that is really enjoyable despite it being a bit quirky that an American stye of dress from 50+ years ago has, probably, a stronger presence in Japan than America today.


And hence Japanese ownership of both Press and Paul Stuart!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> And hence Japanese ownership of both Press and Paul Stuart!


Exactly, we'd also have been better off if they had bought Brooks Brothers too.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Exactly, we'd also have been better off if they had bought Brooks Brothers too.


To God's ears!


----------



## eagle2250

^^Is that the face of God? :crazy: I don't think so...
I watched the movie Bruce Almighty and he doesn't look a bit like Morgan Freeman or even Jim Carrey. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 31200


Cool!

The personal interplay among the figures looks a lot more realistic than the typically idealistic tableaus!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Cool!
> 
> The personal interplay among the figures looks a lot more realistic than the typically idealistic tableaus!


Agreed, looks like your average '50s morning trying to get everyone out of the house while the dog holds the key.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Hmm, not one comment ⇧. I thought the sport coat would get some response. The entire outfit felt "West Coast Trad" to me.

But for today, we'll go with a more traditional McGregor ad (albeit, one that's out of season):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Hmm, not one comment ⇧. I thought the sport coat would get some response. The entire outfit felt "West Coast Trad" to me.
> 
> But for today, we'll go with a more traditional McGregor ad (albeit, one that's out of season):
> View attachment 31254


Love it!
Thanks! :beer:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Very nice...Who among us has not ever worn an Arrow shirt...in our earlier days? Does my memory deceive me or did Arrow also have a very nice line of sport shirts for we teenage dandies? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Very nice...Who among us has not ever worn an Arrow shirt...in our earlier days? Does my memory deceive me or did Arrow also have a very nice line of sport shirts for we teenage dandies? :icon_scratch:


About once a year - depending on how fast I was growing - my mom bought me a dress shirt for the few times a year I needed to "dress up."

One year she bought an Arrow (must have been on sale, as that was clearly my size) - I believe the "Dover" model (might be wrong about that) - which was my first ever Oxford Cloth Button Down shirt (picture a ray of sunlight breaking through the clouds and shining down upon the earth).

I loved that shirt and loved that it also had a button in the back of the collar (and learned quickly to put the tie through first and then button the back of the collar second). To this day (and I know this is completely subjective), for me, a real Oxford Cloth Button Down shirt should have a button in the back of the collar.


----------



## Fading Fast

Sure, I like his bold herringbone suit and, possibly, knit tie, but this pic is really all about her Ivy Era coed dress including the I-don't-know-what-but-they're-right shoes, the cashmere cable-knit knee-high socks, plaid skirt, pink sweater and blondness. My money says she's explaining calculus to confused boy there.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Sure, I like his bold herringbone suit and, possibly, knit tie, but this pic is really all about her Ivy Era coed dress including the I-don't-know-what-but-they're-right shoes, the cashmere cable-knit knee-high socks, plaid skirt, pink sweater and blondness. My money says she's explaining calculus to confused boy there.
> View attachment 31286


Wow! Great clothes!

I like the young lady too!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
but, but was Calculus part of the core curriculum for the coveted Mrs. Degree? It appears to have been. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with college for another day.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with college for another day.
> View attachment 31311


Cute!


----------



## peterc

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ My mom grew up in the depression and they were poor - period, poor. The biggest treat of her childhood was the very rare trip to Schrafft's for an ice cream cone with her mother.
> 
> Somewhere, I have a pic of her mom and some other women (but not my mom - maybe she took the pic) at Schrafft's (in the '40s or '50s) - if I find it, I'll post it.
> 
> The store in that bottom pic is gorgeous.


Fading, I enjoy every word you write. Could you post the address of the Schrafft's in the photo and/or the one your mom went to and/or all the various NYC locations? Sorry for asking this much...


----------



## Fading Fast

peterc said:


> Fading, I enjoy every word you write. Could you post the address of the Schrafft's in the photo and/or the one your mom went to and/or all the various NYC locations? Sorry for asking this much...


Peterec, thank you for your compliment. Schrafft's has been out of business for several decades now. While I went to Chock Full O' Nuts with my mom - they were still around, at least in NYC, when I was growing up in the '70s - I don't remember ever going to a Schrafft's with her.

The link below is to the Wikipedia entry on Schrafft's, which implies some of the restaurants survived into the '80s, but as noted, I have no memory of having ever seen one in person.

Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrafft's_(restaurant_chain)

I also found this interesting NYT story about Schrafft: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/realestate/29scap.html


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## peterc

Fading Fast said:


> Peterec, thank you for your compliment. Schrafft's has been out of business for several decades now. While I went to Chock Full O' Nuts with my mom - they were still around, at least in NYC, when I was growing up in the '70s - I don't remember ever going to a Schrafft's with her.
> 
> The link below is to the Wikipedia entry on Schrafft's, which implies some of the restaurants survived into the '80s, but as noted, I have no memory of having ever seen one in person.
> 
> Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrafft's_(restaurant_chain)
> 
> I also found this interesting NYT story about Schrafft: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/realestate/29scap.html


Many thanks. I will check these out. You know, my wife and I were just in NYC for a quick 4 days. Despite the passage of time (and my increased waist size), it really is still a magical place. To quote Bobby Short: "To be alive and well and successful in New York is a great treasure." I would add that just being there is a great treasure.


----------



## Fading Fast

peterc said:


> Many thanks. I will check these out. You know, my wife and I were just in NYC for a quick 4 days. Despite the passage of time (and my increased waist size), it really is still a magical place. To quote Bobby Short: "To be alive and well and successful in New York is a great treasure." I would add that just being there is a great treasure.


I am a huge New York City fan. I grew up in an average town in New Jersey with New York feeling like a somewhat sinister but insanely appealing real-world OZ that was close in miles but very, very far away from my little world.

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Regarding Bobby Short, while you were here, did you make it up to the Carlyle where he "held court" for many, many years. Bemelmans Bar at the Carlyle is one of the truly classic "Old New York" bars extant.


----------



## peterc

I am afraid I missed seeing Bobby there - it is one of only 2 or 3 event regrets in my life, the other being missing David Bowie on the 1976 Station to Station tour and the Blues Bros in 1980 at the Universal Ampitheatre in L.A. in 1980.

I did notice that Woody Allen was playing at the Carlyle on the 20th, but my wife and I left on the 18th. Next time for sure. I also want to see Billy Joel at MSG while he is still doing that.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 31335


Great illustration!

I swear I remember its first being used in an ad, or at least, this same illustrator's other work.

Very nice.


----------



## Fading Fast

Because of all those who have served like this man and this woman,
















the rest of us can enjoy the day doing fun things like this





































I humbly and sincerely thank all those who have served.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Because of all those who have served like this man and this woman,
> View attachment 31354
> View attachment 31355
> 
> 
> the rest of us can enjoy the day doing fun things like this
> View attachment 31345
> View attachment 31346
> View attachment 31347
> View attachment 31348
> View attachment 31350
> 
> 
> I humbly and sincerely thank all those who have served.


Wow!

Great illustrations, thanks.


----------



## ran23

I still prefer to call it 'Decoration Day'.


----------



## FLMike

ran23 said:


> I still prefer to call it 'Decoration Day'.


I don't remember it being called that. I must not be old enough.


----------



## Fading Fast

A back-to-work Tuesday:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Surprised yesterday's very trad pic didn't garner any comments. Hence, we'll try some very trad/ivy shoes for today:


----------



## eagle2250

^^


Fading Fast said:


> A back-to-work Tuesday:
> View attachment 31373


Perhaps it's a regional thing, but I had never heard of Clipper Craft, as a brand. Although, I have enjoyed almost a 50 year love affair with Bass Weejuns! :happy:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> 
> Perhaps it's a regional thing, but I had never heard of Clipper Craft, as a brand. Although, I have enjoyed almost a 50 year love affair with Bass Weejuns! :happy:


I don't think I had either - it gets confusing as I've been reading about and interested in this stuff for so long, that my memory gets muddled. That said, I'm 99% sure I've never owned a Clipper Craft suit. But as a young man interested in Ivy, I've owned several pairs of Weejun pennies.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Surprised yesterday's very trad pic didn't garner any comments. Hence, we'll try some very trad/ivy shoes for today:
> View attachment 31428


That's because only skinny guys could wear that stuff, not me!


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> That's because only skinny guys could wear that stuff, not me!


I wouldn't be able to squeeze into one of those "skinny suits today," but way, way back in the day, based on this old photo, I think I could have done so back then. However, in the interest of full candor, the photo is at least 10 years older than the Clipper Craft ad! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

After yesterday, I looked for some not-skinny men. It's hard to tell, but I'm thinking that blonde guy isn't a skinny-suit guy as you'd probably need to add about 50% onto my shoulder width to equal his . He kinda reminds me of Grant (played by Robert Shaw) in "From Russia With Love."


----------



## London380sl

I never heard of Clipper Craft either but I did find this interesting link about it

https://www.ivy-style.com/domestic-cat-remembering-clipper-craft-main-street-ivy-clothier.html

The tiger head campaign must have been in the mid 60's when everything was "tiger" such as Esso gas which had the slogan of "Putting a tiger in your tank".

Again before my time. The only thing that I remember from that period was Tiger Ice cream - Orange and licorice ice cream. Still one of my favorite flavours and, sadly, rarely found these days. 

Edit: I'll take back the date of the ad campaign. It might have been the mid 50's as the car in the first ad is 55-57 Tbird.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> After yesterday, I looked for some not-skinny men. It's hard to tell, but I'm thinking that blonde guy isn't a skinny-suit guy as you'd probably need to add about 50% onto my shoulder width to equal his . He kinda reminds me of Grant (played by Robert Shaw) in "From Russia With Love."
> View attachment 31448


It appears that men's style really is timeless. There is not a garment appearing in that ad that couldn't easily be incorporated in our wardrobes today, though I must admit to being partial to the cardigan and chinos rig!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> It appears that men's style really is timeless. There is not a garment appearing in that ad that couldn't easily be incorporated in our wardrobes today, though I must admit to being partial to the cardigan and chinos rig!


I thought the same. Surprisingly, even the tennis sweater has held on and can still be worn without looking costume-like.


----------



## Fading Fast

Friday night, time to party:








I'd be chattin' up the blonde in the red dress just as the medium-blue-suit guy is.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Twenty to thirty years ago, I could have identified with the illustration in post #586. But then I must have started getting old and these days it's really hard to party hearty when you're in bed (most nights) by 2130 hours!  LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Twenty to thirty years ago, I could have identified with the illustration in post #586. But then I must have started getting old and these days it's really hard to party hearty when you're in bed (most nights) by 2130 hours!  LOL.


We go to bed around the same time - life changes and we get up very early.

Also, neither one of us would enjoy that type of night / party anymore.

That said, dressed differently (as it was the '80s/'90s), I did plenty of those evenings in my 20s and 30s, just lost interest as I got older.

A quiet dinner with a few really good friends or, honestly, even better, just the girlfriend and me, at home with a bottle a wine, a light dinner and, then, a good movie on TV and we are two happy people. Coincidentally, that is our plan for tonight.


----------



## Hebrew Barrister

Fading Fast said:


> After yesterday, I looked for some not-skinny men. It's hard to tell, but I'm thinking that blonde guy isn't a skinny-suit guy as you'd probably need to add about 50% onto my shoulder width to equal his . He kinda reminds me of Grant (played by Robert Shaw) in "From Russia With Love."
> View attachment 31448


That blonde man looks like a tailor's nightmare. Probably needs bespoke.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hebrew Barrister said:


> That blonde man looks like a tailor's nightmare. Probably needs bespoke.


Agreed, no skinny suits for him. Are you familiar with "From Russia With Love?" He so reminds me of Grant as Grant looked stuffed into his '60s slim-cut suits.


----------



## Fading Fast

Continuing with the weekend partying theme. The guy in the back is very Ivy with his less-popular-today - even in the Ivy sub-culture - striped sport coat.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Continuing with the weekend partying theme. The guy in the back is very Ivy with his less-popular-today - even in the Ivy sub-culture - striped sport coat.
> View attachment 31494


Ahh . . . ! :beer:

Nothing but the best!


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ good catch.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ good catch.


As a youngster in the '50's and '60's I found the taste of common American beers very unappealing. When my elder sister and brother-in-law resided near Harrisburg for a year, they discovered Horlacher and brought a few 32 oz bottles with them when they returned for a visit. My adolescent curiosity piqued, I decided I needed to sample some, and found it surprisingly agreeable!


----------



## Fading Fast

Sunday relaxing in Ivy world:


----------



## eagle2250

^^Remove the tie and replace the worsted wool's with cotton poplin tropical weight chinos and replace the females top with a horizontally striped green and white sailors shirt and you would have a reasonable facsimile of the wife and I this Sunday afternoon!


----------



## Fading Fast

As a kid growing up in the '70s, I knew Botany 500 as it was listed at the end of several game and talk shows as in "Mr. So-and-so's wardrobe provided by Botany 500." 








Looks like one of the twin spires of Churchill Downs in the background.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> As a kid growing up in the '70s, I knew Botany 500 as it was listed at the end of several game and talk shows as in "Mr. So-and-so's wardrobe provided by Botany 500."
> View attachment 31544
> 
> Looks like one of the twin spires of Churchill Downs in the background.


Great ad and illustration!

I remember it 20 years earlier as a peer of HSM. Good upper middle quality stuff!


----------



## AJP

Another botany ad....


----------



## Fading Fast

Since Flanderian noted that Botany 500 and HSM were peers in the '50s, we have this good looking suit for today:


----------



## Flanderian

AJP said:


> Another botany ad....
> View attachment 31567


Very late '50's, early '60's when TNSIL/Trad was fashion. Reminds me of a *black* flannel blazer I had from the era. Less uncommon, and more useful than revisionist history could imagine.



Fading Fast said:


> Since Flanderian noted that Botany 500 and HSM were peers in the '50s, we have this good looking suit for today:
> View attachment 31582


And it is good looking! The unflapped patch pockets add a slightly unusual more casual air to it, less common by this time, but the whole design works very well!


----------



## Flanderian

Very late '40's - very early '50's.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Since Flanderian noted that Botany 500 and Hart were peers in the '50s, we have this good looking suit for today:
> View attachment 31582


I purchased a few of Hart, Schaffner and Marx offerings during my working years as a civilian...they were good looking, workhorse suits and jackets!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I purchased a few of Hart, Schaffner and Marx offerings during my working years as a civilian...they were good looking, workhorse suits and jackets!


I agree - good workhorses, but for some reason, HSM OTR didn't fit my body type well and, even after extensive tailoring, never felt or looked quite right. I tried a few times and gave up. Not a slight on the brand, just didn't work for my frame.


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with suits for another day, this time, a definite summer one:


----------



## eagle2250

Are we seeing dual vents on the tail of that jacket. If so, I wasn't aware that they were an option, back in the day? :icon_scratch: In any event it was a good looking suit of clothes and very reasonably priced, starting at $47.50.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Are we seeing dual vents on the tail of that jacket. If so, I wasn't aware that they were an option, back in the day? :icon_scratch: In any event it was a good looking suit of clothes and very reasonably priced, starting at $47.50.


I've noticed from movies from the '50s and '60s that double-vented suits and sport coats that, otherwise, had all the TNSIL features where quite common. I know we don't talk that much about double vents here, but the movie evidence argues compellingly that they were common back then.

Back in the '80s, when I first started buying Haspel poplins, they cost in the low $100 (at season ending sale), which was half the price of good comparable wool suits on sale. Haspel was always an affordable wardrobe addition (which is why I owned almost every single color they came in).


----------



## AJP

Another suit like Haspel with blends of synthetic and cotton by McGregor:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Good one. As mentioned early, I only started buying suits in the '80s, but while Haspel was still going strong then, I don't remember ever seeing a McGregor suit.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with suits for another day, this time, a definite summer one:
> View attachment 31598


Great ad, nice suit! Would look just as good worn today. (Heck, given the current state of fashion, it would look *better* than most of what's being sold today!)



Fading Fast said:


> I've noticed from movies from the '50s and '60s that double-vented suits and sport coats that, otherwise, had all the TNSIL features where quite common. I know we don't talk that much about double vents here, but the movie evidence argues compellingly that they were common back then.


While less common than center vents, they were hardly absent, and seeing TNSIL jackets with them, not that unusual. Ivy was fashion at the time, and being marketed most heavily to younger men, and side vents added to an otherwise TNSIL jacket was a touch of added sophistication.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Great info and it gels with, as noted, what I see in the way-too-many movies I watch from that era.


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with suits for another day:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with suits for another day:
> View attachment 31619


Another great illustration, of a former fine brand of men's tailored clothing. More mute testimony to the dismantling of the American men's wear industry.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Another great illustration, of a former fine brand of men's tailored clothing. More mute testimony to the dismantling of the American men's wear industry.


While well past its heyday, becoming a suit shopper in the '80s allowed me to catch the tail end of the trad-clothing world - the large number of different stores, the knowledgable salesmen, the incredible variety, etc. Had I started ten years later, I'd have missed a lot of that and, by twenty years later, it was all but gone.


----------



## eagle2250

"Society Brand?" I hate to admit it, but that is a new one on me.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> "Society Brand?" I hate to admit it, but that is a new one on me.


Me too - but seems like Flanderian remembers it.

And I love that illustatration - the suit fits so well that it would encourage me to check out the brand (I believe that's called good advertising ).


----------



## London380sl

Neither have I but evidently it was a line before my time. Found this in Wikipedia It looks like the line was discontinued in the early 80's.

*Society Brand Clothes* (originally and formally *Alfred Decker & Cohn*) was a leading manufacturer of men's suite, based in Chicago. The company was founded in 1902[1] by Alfred Decker and Abraham Cohn.[2] The company incorporated in 1919.[1] It was known for its *Society Brand* line of suits and came to do business under the name Society Brand Clothes.

After 1913, the company was located in the *Alfred Decker & Cohn Building* (subsequently known as the *Society Brand Building*) at 416 South Franklin Street in Chicago. The building was built in 1912-1913 by Graham, Anderson, Probst and White.[3]


Society Brand Clothes Colliers advertisement from October 4, 1913
The company advertised Society Brand extensively in posters, magazines and newspapers under the slogan _For Young Men and Men who Stay Young_.[4][5]

In 1919, the company started delivering some of its merchandise to retailers outside of Chicago via two dedicated Curtiss Jenny airplanes[6][7] that had the name "Society Brand Clothes" painted prominently on the fuselage.[7] Service included nearby cities in Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin.[6] Operations ceased in 1920.[8]

Society Brand Clothes was acquired by Hartmarx in 1952. Hartmarx continued the Society Brand line for at least 30 years


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Great stuff - thank you for posting it.

From 1929









And from 1958


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Great stuff - thank you for posting it.
> 
> From 1929
> View attachment 31666
> 
> 
> And from 1958
> View attachment 31667


Sir, you have outdone yourself! Beautiful illustrations of very handsome clothing!

:beer:


----------



## Fading Fast

Let's just say that my 1980s state university educational experience did not quite look like this:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Let's just say that my 1980s state university educational experience did not quite look like this:
> View attachment 31692


More like this -










Or this -










Hmm . . . ?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Let's just say that my 1980s state university educational experience did not quite look like this:
> View attachment 31692


Well I did in fact wear chinos, as part of my late 1960's state university experience and some might report I was seen wearing a high school letter jacket, at least during my Freshman year at college. I think the fellow pictured is wearing a letterman's sweater. That's about as close as I can come.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Well I did in fact wear chinos, as part of my late 1960's state university experience and some might report I was seen wearing a high school letter jacket, at least during my Freshman year at college. I think the fellow pictured is wearing a letterman's sweater. That's about as close as I can come.


Ah . . . found it!

Here we have fading fast!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> More like this -
> 
> View attachment 31709
> 
> 
> Or this -
> 
> View attachment 31712
> 
> 
> Hmm . . . ?





eagle2250 said:


> Well I did in fact wear chinos, as part of my late 1960's state university experience and some might report I was seen wearing a high school letter jacket, at least during my Freshman year at college. I think the fellow pictured is wearing a letterman's sweater. That's about as close as I can come.





Flanderian said:


> Ah . . . found it!
> 
> Here we have fading fast!
> 
> View attachment 31713


⇧ good ones.

Rutgers, at least in the '80s, attracted a lower-middle-class to poor student as the tuition was quite low (the tuition [ex dorms, food, books, etc.] was $500 my first term and, four years later, $1500 for my last - as I was paying that myself, it was an early education in tuition inflation).

The dress was not Ivy at all; there wasn't even an echo of it (other than in some of the professors) - it was all modestly priced '80s clothes for the students.

My wardrobe was one pair of jeans (made it through all four years with just one pair), a couple pairs of chinos and three dress trousers for my job at Sterns department store. I also wore OCBDs, one Rugby shirt and had a Bean ragg-wool sweater and blue blazer (for work, not college as I never had a need for a sport coat - never, ever went to a college event that called for it).

I wore one pair of Timberland boat shoes - winter and summer - for all four years that literally were ready to fall off my feet by the end and I had a pair of dress shoes for work (I also had a pair of Chuck Taylors that got a little wear). There were a few other things, but not much as I moved all my clothes in one medium-sized suitcase several times during college.

I didn't know it at the time, but I was kinda, sorta Ivy compared to other, but I didn't stand out as jeans and chinos were common as were shirts with collars and Rugbys; although, many wore t-shirts. Every so often, I'd have a late class, so I'd have to dress for work (dress slacks, shoes, OCBD, tie and blazer) before class, so that I could make it to my evening shift at Sterns on time. Boy did I stand out then - and heard endless comments (to the point that I tried to avoid having to do that).

That said, many of the older building on Rutgers main campus could give any of the Ivy college buildings a run for their money in old, classic college architecture - big imposing stone structures that looked like they were imported from 17th century Europe with insanely gorgeous wood and marble interiors. But sadly, those building and a few of the older professors were the only Ivy looking things at Rutgers in the '80s.

P.S. Love that "H" sweater.


----------



## eagle2250

LOL. Back in the day (mid to late 1960's), Penn State was a typical state agricultural and engineering school. There were some impressive architectural examples of Pennsylvania limestone construction, but there were a lot of wide open spaces across the University Park Campus to feast one's eyes upon. Joe Paterno was in his very first years as head coach and both the football program and the University still had a whole lot of growing ahead of them. The hippies and a few others were demonstrating against the (Vietnam) war.

One spring evening a friend and I were walking from the West Hall's dormitory complex across campus to the Wagner Building, dressed in our military uniforms to attend a required formation and a sizable group of those hippies, thinking we should not be wearing those uniforms on campus, set to chasing us across the University Park campus. Fortunately, Mars...the god of war...must have been looking down upon us, for we were able to outrun the masses and made it to our destination. But alas, the hippies got their way, for it was shortly after that that we were told to carry our uniforms in a clothes bag and put them on once we arrived at our destination! 

These days the campus is so built up, it has lost much of it's charm...at least to my eyes.


----------



## Fading Fast

I don't want to violate the political rules, but I can say this - as someone who deeply appreciates the blanket of security our military provides to, well, people like me, and has provided at a great cost to many who've served and serve, thank you for your service.

I haven't been back to the Rutgers campus since I graduated, but doubt the "Quad" and its surrounds - the main old campus with the cool buildings - has changed much as I can't believe they'd knock the old one down and there wasn't that much space to build up (they had plenty of space in other nearby areas to build out).

Some shots of those building from the web - there are other prettier buildings, I just couldn't find them on line:


----------



## Fading Fast

And staying with the theme of college for another day:









And "our" Harvard sweater again:









I think I've posted this before, but it's one of my favorite Ivy college ones:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I don't want to violate the political rules, but I can say this - as someone who deeply appreciates the blanket of security our military provides to, well, people like me, and has provided at a great cost to many who've served and serve, thank you for your service.
> 
> I haven't been back to the Rutgers campus since I graduated, but doubt the "Quad" and its surrounds - the main old campus with the cool buildings - has changed much as I can't believe they'd knock the old one down and there wasn't that much space to build up (they had plenty of space in other nearby areas to build out).
> 
> Some shots of those building from the web - there are other prettier buildings, I just couldn't find them on line:
> View attachment 31717
> View attachment 31719
> View attachment 31721
> View attachment 31718


Your pictures of the Rutgers campus are remarkable, capturing those moments of the schools history and providing some sense of what it was/is like then and today, respectively. Thank you.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> And staying with the theme of college for another day:
> View attachment 31722
> 
> 
> And "our" Harvard sweater again:
> View attachment 31723
> 
> 
> I think I've posted this before, but it's one of my favorite Ivy college ones:
> View attachment 31724


Some great ads and clothes! Interwoven in particular long maintained a very high standard in their ad art, such as the Leyendecker illustration borrowed for many years by Paul Stuart.


----------



## Flanderian

Per, above -


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Some great ads and clothes! Interwoven in particular long maintained a very high standard in their ad art, such as the Leyendecker illustration borrowed for many years by Paul Stuart.


You are, as always, spot on. The Paul Stuart Man-on-the-Fence logo is basically the original Leyendecker Interwoven sock ad:









And early version of the logo:









And a present day one (there are several versions today it seesms)









Also, an interesting (but dated - 2013) article on Stuart's Japanese owner's plans to expand the brand:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324493704578428690916902894

With this mention of the logo:

_Mitsui [the Japanese company owner] also sees a larger role for Paul Stuart's "man on the fence" logo, which the brand has used sparingly, even as Ralph Lauren's Polo pony and the Izod alligator have became fashion staples. "We intend to use the logo more strategically," Mr. Yashima said. "We do need to be a bit more flexible on that."_​


----------



## Fading Fast

Monday and back to the commute:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Hmm not a single comment. Maybe because the men's clothes are pretty discreet. Her alligator bag is probably the coolest item in the pic.

So, for today, full on men's clothes:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Monday and back to the commute:
> View attachment 31758


This day's illustration took me back to the days I commuted to work on The South Shore & South Bend Railroad, from Chesterton, IN to Chicago, IL. We men had progressed beyond the inclination to wear hats, but the various preoccupations of the passengers was close to exactly whet we see in that illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> This day's illustration took me back to the days I commuted to work on The South Shore & South Bend Railroad, from Chesterton, IN to Chicago, IL. We men had progressed beyond the inclination to wear hats, but the various preoccupations of the passengers was close to exactly whet we see in that illustration.


⇧ Very cool. My early '80s, summer work (real work, not "interning") on Wall St had me commuting into the city on old '50s- and '60s-era local and Amtrak trains with plenty of men still in '60s-Ivy style clothing, so I caught a touch of that world right before it went away.


----------



## Fading Fast

Only marginally related, but this weekend, I stumbled upon this sweatshirt, which is available from several colleges, but not mine - Rutgers (probably because they always suck at football) - or it would already be on order:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
As best I can determine, Penn State does not offer that sweatshirt either. It seems everything comes with a stylized Nittany Lion bust on it!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> As best I can determine, Penn State does not offer that sweatshirt either. It seems everything comes with a stylized Nittany Lion bust on it!


Unfortunately - I think you are right:

https://hillflint.com/collections/penn-state

It's just so good that I want to will the company to make one for our colleges.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 31809
> 
> 
> Only marginally related, but this weekend, I stumbled upon this sweatshirt, which is available from several colleges, but not mine - Rutgers (probably because they always suck at football) - or it would already be on order:
> View attachment 31812
> View attachment 31811


Then just wear the one from Harvard! :laughing:

I know you're now an army of one, but having worked in the corporate world, you will appreciate this: The expectations attached to graduates from Ivy League schools is enormous, and often out of all proportion to their inherent merits. Not that they're necessarily incapable, but their actual abilities are often magnified in the minds of lesser mortals for whom they find themselves working.

I can recall a couple of young gentlemen recently graduated from Harvard and Princeton who came to work in my office completely without any business experience. They were both bright and capable, but knew absolutely nothing about the particular job at hand. Nonetheless, it was assumed that each could walk on water unless proved otherwise. Such is the cachet and sense of entitlement associated with these degrees.

One fellow got bored and frustrated after a year or two and started his own business, but I don't believe it succeeded. The other young princeling had the added benefit of family connections in the upper management of the firm, and was gone from the office in a few months, and shortly after was named a vice president. (And without disrespect to financial service firms, this was a different industry.)

Could the second gentlemen fulfill the position he was given? Yes, at least adequately. Would he ever have received that same sort of opportunity if a grad from a different school? Not on your life!


----------



## Fading Fast

So, I asked my girlfriend if she thought I could buy one of those sweatshirts and remove the college's name. Once again, as happens often in my life, I saw a look come over her face that was not directed at me, but one that was more introspective and sad, kinda defeated - one that said, "how did I make life choices that led to this?"


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Indeed the look you describe is a curse that we, who are fortunate enough to marry or establish life partnerships with women well above our expected potential or maximum reach, must learn to live with. But ya know, they can't help themselves...they love us. Just dumb luck on our part, I suppose? LOL. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> So, I asked my girlfriend if she thought I could buy one of those sweatshirts and remove the college's name. Once again, as happens often in my life, I saw a look come over her face that was not directed at me, but one that was more introspective and sad, kinda defeated - one that said, "how did I make life choices that led to this?"


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Hilarious! Yet profound!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Indeed the look you describe is a curse that we, who are fortunate enough to marry or establish life partnerships with women well above our expected potential or maximum reach, must learn to live with. But ya know, they can't help themselves...they love us. Just dumb luck on our part, I suppose? LOL. :icon_scratch:





Flanderian said:


> :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
> 
> Hilarious! Yet profound!


You guys get it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since we've been talking about tab collars in the thread on items you wish they'd bring back, I searched for some old tab collar ads/illustrations and didn't find much (kinda "niche-y," would take more time), but I did find this one that looks either tab or pin (don't see the pin or any eyelets, so, maybe tab).

Regardless, it's a really cool old ad:








I'm thinking '60s cause of everyone's suit and her clothes (and, even, the sunglasses), but the cap and boater on the two gents in the background seem not '60s - thoughts? Sports car isn't that helpful in dating it either. She's a cutie.


----------



## London380sl

"She's a cutie"
Are you talking about the car or the girl?

Not much to go on but my guess for the car is a MGA. The windshield and the drop in the rear bumper look similar.









Doesn't really help with dating of the ad though as they made that model between 1955 and 1962. I'd wager early sixties.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> "She's a cutie"
> Are you talking about the car or the girl?
> 
> Not much to go on but my guess for the car is a MGA. The windshield and the drop in the rear bumper look similar.
> View attachment 31849
> 
> 
> Doesn't really help with dating of the ad though as they made that model between 1955 and 1962. I'd wager early sixties.


That's a pretty darn good guess on the car and early '60s fits most of the other clues in the pic.

And, um, er, yeah, the car, that's it, that's what I was talking about.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Since we've been talking about tab collars in the thread on items you wish they'd bring back, I searched for some old tab collar ads/illustrations and didn't find much (kinda "niche-y," would take more time), but I did find this one that looks either tab or pin (don't see the pin or any eyelets, so, maybe tab).
> 
> Regardless, it's a really cool old ad:
> View attachment 31842
> 
> I'm thinking '60s cause of everyone's suit and her clothes (and, even, the sunglasses), but the cap and boater on the two gents in the background seem not '60s - thoughts? Sports car isn't that helpful in dating it either. She's a cutie.


Very late '50's - early '60's. By the mid '60's the head gear would have been omitted.

Nifty looking collar! Love the rounded points. Have seen it on tab collars, but more recently, more on pinned collars. Used to have my shirtmaker make more robust versions of the same with eyelets.

As you've correctly identified, the heart of this aesthetic is trimmed down minimalism. And since neither suits me well, my collar would be a bit larger, but along the same theme.


----------



## Fading Fast

This guy's ready for an early Friday escape from the office and off to some weekend getaway (albeit, with a bit of an over-the-top suitcase):









N.B., If you haven't already, check out the neat ad - and really cool personal story - Billax posted in the "If you could bring back on thing" thread.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> This guy's ready for an early Friday escape from the office and off to some weekend getaway (albeit, with a bit of an over-the-top suitcase):
> View attachment 31860
> 
> 
> N.B., If you haven't already, check out the neat ad - and really cool personal story - Billax posted in the "If you could bring back on thing" thread.


Great ad!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Since we've been talking about tab collars in the thread on items you wish they'd bring back, I searched for some old tab collar ads/illustrations and didn't find much (kinda "niche-y," would take more time), but I did find this one that looks either tab or pin (don't see the pin or any eyelets, so, maybe tab).
> 
> Regardless, it's a really cool old ad:
> View attachment 31842
> 
> I'm thinking '60s cause of everyone's suit and her clothes (and, even, the sunglasses), but the cap and boater on the two gents in the background seem not '60s - thoughts? Sports car isn't that helpful in dating it either. She's a cutie.


Wash and wear mass produced suits from an ad "back in the day!" A great concept...wonder if it will catch on?


----------



## Flanderian

Pendleton '65 -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Pendleton, for what ever reason, flew under my radar until about ten or so years ago. Now we have three insanely good blankets from them, plus I have a 3/4 length overcoat that's I've posted pics of here several times.

All of the items are of a high quality and feel old-school in a "we make warmth the old fashion" way - with a tight weave, heavy weight wool. 

You know the stuff they make is warm 'cause it weighs a ton.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Pendleton '65 -
> 
> View attachment 31878


The illustration you posted inspires me to pull on one of my beloved Pendleton Board Shirts or Topster jackets, but alas, the predicted 93 degree high temps predicted for today persuade me not to engage in such Tomfoolery! :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 31891


Great illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

From '52 -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Interesting use of patch pockets.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Interesting use of patch pockets.


Do you mean, as on a suit?

While I was just a little boy at the time, I do seem to recall patch pockets being rather popular. And by virtue of its color and evidently light cloth, the suit is less formal, so in this instance I wouldn't find patch pockets out of keeping. However, when used on a suit, I have typically preferred flapped patch pockets to the open variety, and a set-in breast pocket.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Do you mean, as on a suit?
> 
> While I was just a little boy at the time, I do seem to recall patch pockets being rather popular. And by virtue of its color and evidently light cloth, the suit is less formal, so in this instance I wouldn't find patch pockets out of keeping. However, when used on a suit, I have typically preferred flapped patch pockets to the open variety, and a set-in breast pocket.


Yes, and you explained it all well - thank you.

Also, it was comment on the patch pockets or the blonde who looks ready to leave her husband and two kids for a roll in the hay with patch-pockets-suit guy.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Yes, and you explained it all well - thank you.
> 
> Also, it was comment on the patch pockets or the blonde who looks ready to leave her husband and two kids for a roll in the hay with patch-pockets-suit guy.


Judging by the expressions of those looking through the peep holes, I wonder if he just came from behind the wall!? :devil:


----------



## eagle2250

Judging by the almost perfect positioning of each one of those peepholes to accommodate the respective height of each family member, I suspect that this is not the first time they have peered through those peepholes! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Happy Father's Day:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Happy Father's Day:
> View attachment 31921
> View attachment 31922
> View attachment 31923


Great ads, and great illustrations!
Extra points for saddle shoes! :happy:


----------



## Flanderian

The sophisticated side of Trad:

When TNSIL was fashion, there were various intricacies of detail that distinguished the more urbane man from the herd. They were subtle, but signified much. While OCBD's and saddles might typify the undergrad, or recent grad, mature men of business found ways in which to distinguish themselves to coteries of adoring secretaries. (Accessories sold separately! )

Note the trimly tailored suit: It strikes a balance between between the more casual; patch pockets, and more formal; charcoal grey flannel. The shirt is OC, but not BD. Rather it's a pinned club collar with eyelets and French cuffs. The tie is only 1 1/2" wide which greatly assists the necessity of tying a tiny knot. And a casually arranged PS, points-up, exactly matches nothing, but compliments everything.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Great description and context - and a fantastic suit and overall outfit.

How can you tell the shirt's material is OC?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Great description and context - and a fantastic suit and overall outfit.
> 
> How can you tell the shirt's material is OC?


I'm psychic! :crazy:

Of course, I can't, it might have been something else. But it was typical of the era and style, and I believe I may even have actually had one exactly as I described. OC and flannel are like PB & J.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> ...OC and flannel are like PB & J.


:icon_aportnoy:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Happy Father's Day:
> View attachment 31921
> View attachment 31922
> View attachment 31923


Perfect timing for the posting of the illustration in the quoted post!


----------



## Fading Fast

Back to work and suit Monday:








In the real world, he looks like he'd have a drop of 12" or so - very Fellows' proportions.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Back to work and suit Monday:
> View attachment 31944
> 
> In the real world, he looks like he'd have a drop of 12" or so - very Fellows' proportions.


Style points for the odd vest peeking out.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Back to work and suit Monday:
> View attachment 31944
> 
> In the real world, he looks like he'd have a drop of 12" or so - very Fellows' proportions.





TKI67 said:


> Style points for the odd vest peeking out.


Smart lookin' gent!


----------



## Fading Fast

I really like this one. This could all but be me:

Chinos - check
White bucks w/ red sole - check(ish, in storage, long story)
Argyle socks - check(ish, have worn, don't have any in stock)
Rain parka - check
Sweater over collared-shirt - check
Golden - check(ish, currently an English Springer, but have had Goldens)
Red hair - nope (brown tilting toward salt and pepper now )


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I really like this one. This could all but be me:
> 
> Chinos - check
> White bucks w/ red sole - check(ish, in storage, long story)
> Argyle socks - check(ish, have worn, don't have any in stock)
> Rain parka - check
> Sweater over collared-shirt - check
> Golden - check(ish, currently an English Springer, but have had Goldens)
> Red hair - nope (brown tilting toward salt and pepper now )
> 
> View attachment 31960


Great outfit! Great Illustration! And a great Golden. Reminds me of my Golden, except that he isn't drooling or attempting to perform an unnatural act!


----------



## Flanderian

All Pendleton, circa 1964. A very evocative representation of the era. I was a senior in high school. -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ outstanding ad (from the year I was born). I particularly like that mid-calf herringbone coat (and the rest of his outfit as well). 

I know it was a thing, but the transparent blanket carrying case (with a blanket matching one's shirt) is just too much.


----------



## Fading Fast

How great is this going to be:









From the Ivy Style website:

*X Marx The Spot: The Treasure Of The HSM Archives*

JUNE 18, 2019

Recently I was invited to Hickey Freeman on New York's Madison Avenue, where, in the offices above the retail store, I found the menswear equivalent of buried treasure: Four rooms packed with thousands of documents chronicling 100 years of American history through the lens of men's fashion. The recently bankrupt Hartmarx Corporation - which owns the brands Hart, Schaffner & Marx and Hickey Freeman - has brought its extensive archives out of storage and is currently at work digitizing the collection for the Internet. The archives consist of everything from turn-of-the-century catalogs to Deco-era original oil paintings. Here's a fraction of it (click link to see full article w/ all the pics):

https://www.ivy-style.com/x-marx-the-spot-the-treasure-of-the-hsm-archives.html


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> All Pendleton, circa 1964. A very evocative representation of the era. I was a senior in high school. -


The Tweed reminds me of a car coat I wore during my college years (and beyond), except mine was a brown hue flecked with green. I really loved that coat...I was wearing it the night I first introduced myself to my wife! Good memories.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ outstanding ad (from the year I was born). I particularly like that mid-calf herringbone coat (and the rest of his outfit as well).
> 
> I know it was a thing, but the transparent blanket carrying case (with a blanket matching one's shirt) is just too much.


The Herringbone is a stand out, yet was not at all uncommon for the era. Good luck now even finding a car coat that's handsome, comfortable, warm and practical. Good luck finding one at all, when once they ubiquitous.

Eagle's coat described below sounds aces! Would love to have had it.



eagle2250 said:


> The Tweed reminds me of a car coat I wore during my college years (and beyond), except mine was a brown hue flecked with green. I really loved that coat...I was wearing it the night I first introduced myself to my wife! Good memories.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> How great is this going to be:
> View attachment 31979
> 
> 
> From the Ivy Style website:
> 
> *X Marx The Spot: The Treasure Of The HSM Archives*
> 
> JUNE 18, 2019
> 
> Recently I was invited to Hickey Freeman on New York's Madison Avenue, where, in the offices above the retail store, I found the menswear equivalent of buried treasure: Four rooms packed with thousands of documents chronicling 100 years of American history through the lens of men's fashion. The recently bankrupt Hartmarx Corporation - which owns the brands Hart, Schaffner & Marx and Hickey Freeman - has brought its extensive archives out of storage and is currently at work digitizing the collection for the Internet. The archives consist of everything from turn-of-the-century catalogs to Deco-era original oil paintings. Here's a fraction of it (click link to see full article w/ all the pics):
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/x-marx-the-spot-the-treasure-of-the-hsm-archives.html


Wow, that's really great! Thank you! And my excitement isn't feigned. Will relish it!

I have a love/hate thing going with Hartmarx. Love because of the great brands and clothing that was once part of their business. Hate because they killed two of my favorite men's retailers when they were both still doing decent business; the venerable F R Tripler, and particularly Roots in NJ which fell victim to over-expansion, and the absence of Perry Root. But what do I know, men's retail has become a tough neighborhood.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Knew and loved both Roots and Tripler with Tripler being beyond my budget other than for the occasional sale item.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since we've been talking about HS&M, thought this odd ad made sense to show. If someone thinks they know what the heck is going on here please share.








Swelled edges, patch pockets and bold herringbone - love it.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Since we've been talking about HS&M, thought this odd ad made sense to show. If someone thinks they know what the heck is going on here please share.
> View attachment 32001
> 
> Swelled edges, patch pockets and bold herringbone - love it.


:icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:

She ran him over with her bike, and is now giving him a piece of her mind for having trod the earth. Or, he's about to get arrested by SVU.

Great illustration in either case!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: :icon_scratch:
> 
> She ran him over with her bike, and is now giving him a piece of her mind for having trod the earth. Or, he's about to get arrested by SVU.
> 
> Great illustration in either case!


Looks more like a recycled "pulp" fiction cover from the '50s (there was a whole sub-genre of "literature" in the '50s with, basically, smutty stories and "provacative" cover art) like this:






















Not quite what I'd expect to see echoed in a HS&M ad.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Looks more like a recycled "pulp" fiction cover from the '50s (there was a whole sub-genre of "literature" in the '50s with, basically, smutty stories and "provacative" cover art) like this:
> View attachment 32004
> View attachment 32005
> View attachment 32006
> 
> Not quite what I'd expect to see echoed in a HS&M ad.


Now we're talkin'! Hubba, hubba!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Now we're talkin'! Hubba, hubba!


nice ⇧ - cartoons were simpler, smarter and more adult-oriented back then.

Kidding aside, don't you see a strong echo of that pulp art in the HS&M ad?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> nice ⇧ - cartoons were simpler, smarter and more adult-oriented back then.
> 
> Kidding aside, don't you see a strong echo of that pulp art in the HS&M ad?


Yes, though I like the art work and clothing better in the ad, but the note of conflict and domination is also there. But in the ad, he's the one catching hell!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Yes, though I like the art work and clothing better in the ad, but the note of conflict and domination is also there. But in the ad, he's the one catching hell!


The dominatrix theme was a subset of the pulp genre. Gee, go figure .


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Looks more like a recycled "pulp" fiction cover from the '50s (there was a whole sub-genre of "literature" in the '50s with, basically, smutty stories and "provacative" cover art) like this:
> View attachment 32004
> View attachment 32005
> View attachment 32006
> 
> Not quite what I'd expect to see echoed in a HS&M ad.


A rather impressive reading list for sure! Though I can't recall seeing any of those titles mentioned in the "What Have You Read Lately" thread. LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> A rather impressive reading list for sure! Though I can't recall seeing any of those titles mentioned in the "What Have You Read Lately" thread. LOL.


I'll take _Campus Tramp_ for $500, Alex! :drunken_smilie:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A rather impressive reading list for sure! Though I can't recall seeing any of those titles mentioned in the "What Have You Read Lately" thread. LOL.


I didn't know AAAC had a "What Have You Read Lately" thread. I took a quick look and couldn't find it - what forum is it in? (Thank you)

My (only and boring) hobbies are reading, old films and trad clothing. Hence, I'm always happy to jump into a "What Have You Read Lately" thread (I already write up most of what I read on Fedora, so could easily cross post here).


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The thread is in the Food, Drink and Travel forum' It's actual title is "What Has Everyone Read or Is Reading Now." Good luck in the hunt!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The thread is in the Food, Drink and Travel forum' It's actual title is "What Has Everyone Read or Is Reading Now." Good luck in the hunt!


While not pulp fiction - both are good reads - check out these two books (by the same author) and their cover art:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/what-are-you-reading.10557/page-406#post-2499929









https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/what-are-you-reading.10557/page-411#post-2546356


----------



## Fading Fast

And something in a somewhat similar theme for today:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> While not pulp fiction - both are good reads - check out these two books (by the same author) and their cover art:
> 
> https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/what-are-you-reading.10557/page-406#post-2499929
> View attachment 32025
> 
> 
> https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/what-are-you-reading.10557/page-411#post-2546356
> View attachment 32026


I really do appreciate the level of detail and the clear expressions of the writing art found in your film and book reviews. Barnes and Noble should hire you to prepare their online book summaries. You are very skilled at this.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I really do appreciate the level of detail and the clear expressions of the writing art found in your film and book reviews. Barnes and Noble should hire you to prepare their online book summaries. You are very skilled at this.


Thank you - that's very nice of you to say.

Both of the books are fun - not heavy reads, but good solid page turners. I'm excited that you introduced me to AAAC's book thread as - as you know - I'm a big fan of reading and writing about it and reading what others write about books they've enjoyed (or not).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> And something in a somewhat similar theme for today:
> View attachment 32028


Beautiful, elegant art work!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Beautiful, elegant art work!


Pepsi and Coke provided some really good illustrations up through the '60s.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Pepsi and Coke provided some really good illustrations up through the '60s.


Yes, being able to afford it sure doesn't hurt!


----------



## Flanderian

1954 and he's dating June Cleaver, and every woman wants him!


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ The sexual innuendos from the '50s are amazing once you understand the style.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ The sexual innuendos from the '50s are amazing once you understand the style.


And you didn't even grow up in the pre-pantyhose era!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> And you didn't even grow up in the pre-pantyhose era!


Miss Piggy and her precocious sister, ready for a long night out on the town making bacon. :crazy:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 32041


Nice!



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 32041


Rather, I was thinking more of the innate proclivities of my "humor!"


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

The dude with the sunglasses appears to be wearing a pretty snazzy sack designed suit, while the fellow in the plaid jacket is hitting on his woman! The guy with the sunglasses needs to reevaluate his priorities.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 32061


Cool!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Cool!


⇧ Agreed, a particularly good one.

And, now, back to work on a Monday ⇩








Interesting material / pattern on the suit - any thoughts on what it is specifically?

Love the collar pin.


----------



## eagle2250

I'm not sure if my eyes may be deceiving me, but as I look at the illustration more closely, it appears that the tan suit is some sort of herringbone weave...yes, no?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I'm not sure if my eyes may be deceiving me, but as I look at the illustration more closely, it appears that the tan suit is some sort of herringbone weave...yes, no?


Maybe, when I enlarge the pic, it just gets blurry. My first thought was some sort of "nubby" material, but it could be herringbone, I just can't tell.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Agreed, a particularly good one.
> 
> And, now, back to work on a Monday ⇩
> View attachment 32083
> 
> Interesting material / pattern on the suit - any thoughts on what it is specifically?
> 
> Love the collar pin.


Great HSM ad! Fine artwork, cool clothes!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great HSM ad! Fine artwork, cool clothes!


Any thoughts on the suit's material?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Any thoughts on the suit's material?


I agree with you that it looks nubby/slubby. There's summer weight cloth from that era, and now as well, that has a similar appearance as a blend of silk, or linen, or both. But given what other figures in the illustration are wearing, I don't know that it's a summer ad, could well be early spring or early fall. Another popular cloth of the era in this light tan shade was Donegal style tweeds, often made up in not to heavy a cloth. This shade of tan, often with chocolate brown slubs was very popular. This would account for its nubby appearance.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I agree with you that it looks nubby/slubby. There's summer weight cloth from that era, and now as well, that has a similar appearance as a blend of silk, or linen, or both. But given what other figures in the illustration are wearing, I don't know that it's a summer ad, could well be early spring or early fall. Another popular cloth of the era in this light tan shade was Donegal style tweeds, often made up in not to heavy a cloth. This shade tan, often with chocolate brown slubs was very popular. This would account for its nubby appearance.


Good color - I was thinking summer too, but your Donegal tweed call makes sense as, as you note, owing to what the others are wearing.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^A blast from the past of a once proud American based business. Botany 500 still exists today, but alas, in name only as foreign interests now own the name, as well as have the product produced by third world parties.


----------



## EponymousFunk

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed, too much as a suit, but perfect for a loud-and-proud '50s sport coat.


The woman to his left seems to rather appreciate the look...

Regards,


----------



## Fading Fast

EponymousFunk said:


> The woman to his left seems to rather appreciate the look...


Good catch. I don't know how much you've been following this thread, but - off and on - we've talked about the almost hero-worship look the men received from women in some '50s advertising. I'm sure it didn't at the time, but today it can look silly or, quite often, creepy.


----------



## EponymousFunk

Fading Fast said:


> Price, style and overall look have me guessing late '50s and from a modest priced retailer:
> View attachment 27020


Bottom-left of page appears to have "WARDS" (i.e., Montgomery-Wards) in a small outlined box.

I have fond memories of "Monkey Wards" as a kid--lots of time in their toys and electronics departments...

Regards,


----------



## EponymousFunk

Fading Fast said:


> Good catch. I don't know how much you've been following this thread, but - off and on - we've talked about the almost hero-worship look the men received from women in some '50s advertising. I'm sure it didn't at the time, but today it can look silly or, quite often, creepy.


I have just discovered it; my apologies for the late-coming comments...

Yes, it is VERY strange to see the depicted attitudes and interactions; but only in the sense that that I was not inculcated with them as a child of the 70s coming of age in the 80s and 90s.

I can only imagine what the millennials think of the 50-somethings and photos/illustrations showing our fashions and attitudes (let alone our taste in music and entertainment)...

Regards,


----------



## Fading Fast

EponymousFunk said:


> Bottom-left of page appears to have "WARDS" (i.e., Montgomery-Wards) in a small outlined box.
> 
> I have fond memories of "Monkey Wards" as a kid--lots of time in their toys and electronics departments...


I was in many Sears stores as a kid and remember both the Sears and Montgomery Ward's catalogue, but don't remember ever being in - or even seeing - a Montgomery Ward store (I grew up in central New Jersey).


----------



## Fading Fast

EponymousFunk said:


> I have just discovered it; my apologies for the late-coming comments...
> 
> Yes, it is VERY strange to see the depicted attitudes and interactions; but only in the sense that that I was not inculcated with them as a child of the 70s coming of age in the 80s and 90s.
> 
> I can only imagine what the millennials think of the 50-somethings and photos/illustrations showing our fashions and attitudes (let alone our taste in music and entertainment)...
> 
> Regards,


No apologies necessary - glad to have you join the conversation.

As to millennials, hopefully, as opposed to being affronted, they would begin to realize that history and culture needs to be judge with some respect for the context of its time. Yes, criticism can be fair, but so too can some perspective and respect that, chances are, they wouldn't think it so crazy if they were born into those times.

Heck, I was born in '64, but find interesting (and, sometimes, offensive) styles, music, advertising, etc., from almost every decade in the 20th Century.

And for every hero-worship ad we see in the '50s, we also see plenty of the "bumbling husband" ads who only manages to survive by having a smart wife. As always, history is complex and our parents and grandparents were just as smart as we are - just lived in a different time.


----------



## EponymousFunk

Flanderian said:


> What a cool illustration! Thank you!
> 
> I do remember days like that while waiting on a corner for a bus. Very naturalistic and apt.
> 
> Did you notice that gent in the blue coat bears more than a passing resemblance to -


Can't see the pic, but guessing: a young Ray Liotta?


----------



## EponymousFunk

DaveTrader said:


> I love the whole 1950s aesthetic. There was a lot of style that just seemed effortless. I've always felt that I was born in the wrong era and that I would have fit nicely (as a young man, at least) in the 50s.
> 
> As I've had an affinity for this era my entire life, I found it interesting that when I would discuss clothing with the men that actually lived this era, not one even showed the slightest interest in style or their clothing in general, and many of them were very well-dressed in their day.
> 
> For instance, a good friend of mine passed away about a year ago. He was a retired college professor - Cornell & MIT graduate - that taught physics at a major university. He received his PhD in 1952. Having seen photos of him in his heyday, he was a spot-on Trad man. But when I asked him about his suits, shoes, etc., he looked at me as if I were an alien. To him, they were just clothes. Suits, shirts, and ties. Not something you thought about, just something you had to buy.
> 
> And it was like this with the other men that I knew that lived this era. It's as if the "industry" styled them and they just bought "the uniform".


As mentioned earlier, there were many little no-name haberdasheries and mens clothing stores (I remember seeing the faded, long-closed storefronts in the 70s and 80s). Without all the modern distractions we have become saturated with, I speculate fellows had ample opportunity to pop into a shop conveniently located on their way to or from home. They found one or two shops or tailors they liked, found a style they liked, and, as you say "bought the uniform" without really giving it much more thought than that.

I lost dad 27-odd years ago when I was away in college (and long before I had much interest in these things). I know from old photos that he was more on the blue-collar casual end of the spectrum in the 50s and 60s, but he still dressed well even without wearing a suit often. It is a great regret we never had conversations about this, and far too many other things.

Regards,


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## EponymousFunk

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 32142


Great socks!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Tell me those are snaffle-bit loafers. I think I see a bit attached across the upper vamp of those loafer, but I am not sure? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Tell me those are snaffle-bit loafers. I think I see a bit attached across the upper vamp of those loafer, but I am not sure? :icon_scratch:


I can't tell for sure, but something is going on there.


----------



## Fading Fast

This is a fun one for today:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> This is a fun one for today:
> View attachment 32214


Cool illustration offering a dissection of the style of two very stylish gentlemen at a particular point in time. Very true of each in the late '50's to early '60's.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Cool illustration offering a dissection of the style of two very stylish gentlemen at a particular point in time Very true of each in the late '50's to early '60's.
> 
> View attachment 32224
> 
> 
> View attachment 32225


I don't know about the Italian gentleman, but you are spot on, as Gable went very Ivy in the '50s as shown here from 1958's movie "Teacher's Pet:"


----------



## EponymousFunk

Flanderian said:


> I agree with you that it looks nubby/slubby. There's summer weight cloth from that era, and now as well, that has a similar appearance as a blend of silk, or linen, or both. But given what other figures in the illustration are wearing, I don't know that it's a summer ad, could well be early spring or early fall. Another popular cloth of the era in this light tan shade was Donegal style tweeds, often made up in not to heavy a cloth. This shade of tan, often with chocolate brown slubs was very popular. This would account for its nubby appearance.


My first thought was Shantung, but I do not know if that has ever been a suiting material.

Regards,


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I don't know about the Italian gentleman, but you are spot on, as Gable went very Ivy in the '50s as shown here from 1958's movie "Teacher's Pet:"
> View attachment 32226
> View attachment 32227


Mr. Gable always dressed well, but in the mode of the era. Young Clark was quite a different matter. (Like the suit!)


----------



## EponymousFunk

rl1856 said:


> Looks a lot like Don and Betty Draper. In fact I have noticed their appearance resembles many young couples depicted in period advertising. I suspect the resemblance was intentional.


That's exactly what flashed through my mind!

Regards,


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Mr. Gable always dressed well, but in the mode of the era. Young Clark was quite a different matter. (Like the suit!)
> 
> View attachment 32228


Agree completely - he was a fashion guy in the sense that he cared about clothes and wore what was in at the time, which meant Apparel Arts style dress in the '30s and Ivy in the '50s.

I can also see 1950's Gable thinking, hmm, I'm getting a bit older, but want to remain relevant so I should update my dress a bit to what the kids / younger men are wearing - to what's in fashion, which is Ivy.

That's the funny thing, Ivy was fashion for a time. We think of it as this canon of conservative America, but it was fashion and young and (slightly) rebellious in its day.


----------



## Fading Fast

Leaving out the obvious (shortstop for the Yankees, lead singer of the Rolling Stones, Cary Grant or John Derek), if I could have one skill in my next life that I have not one bit of in this one, it would be drawing / illustrating. I am so impressed what these guys and gals can do with lines on paper.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Leaving out the obvious (shortstop for the Yankees, lead singer of the Rolling Stones, Cary Grant or John Derek), if I could have one skill in my next life that I have not one bit of in this one, it would be drawing / illustrating. I am so impressed what these guys and gals can do with lines on paper.
> View attachment 32235


Nice, ain't it!? :beer:

It's an innate hereditary ability in my family, but only among some left-handers. :icon_scratch:

Uncle, sister and niece all gifted and working as illustrators/commercial artists, and my brother also, to a lesser extent. Me? I'm a righty!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Nice, ain't it!? :beer:
> 
> It's an innate hereditary ability in my family, but only among some left-handers. :icon_scratch:
> 
> Uncle, sister and niece all gifted and working as illustrators/commercial artists, and my brother also, to a lesser extent. Me? I'm a righty!


That blows - I am sincerely sorry.

I've written professionally; if I had drawing talent, I'd give comics a try as I have ideas and the narrative, just not the illustrations.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I've written professionally; if I had drawing talent, I'd give comics a try as I have ideas and the narrative, just not the illustrations.


Then all you need is to find a talented inker!

From the limited reading I've done on the topic, it seems, at least at the commercial level, that it wasn't uncommon to have teams, one guy doing the story, and another translating it onto the page. Though I do think I recall instances of such teams falling out over the issue of who was the greatest contributor.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Then all you need is to find a talented inker!
> 
> From the limited reading I've done on the topic, it seems, at least at the commercial level, that it wasn't uncommon to have teams, one guy doing the story, and another translating it onto the page. Though I do think I recall instances of such teams falling out over the issue of who was the greatest contributor.


That's the exact reason I don't want to team up - I know all that involves. I finally have my work to where I want it - from home and for myself. That's why the comic route only appeals to me if I could do it solo.


----------



## EponymousFunk

Flanderian said:


> Then all you need is to find a talented inker!
> 
> From the limited reading I've done on the topic, it seems, at least at the commercial level, that it wasn't uncommon to have teams, one guy doing the story, and another translating it onto the page. Though I do think I recall instances of such teams falling out over the issue of who was the greatest contributor.


This bit of conversation reminds me of " Chasing Amy"; the sub-plot between Banky and Holden and their fans regarding Banky's contribution to the duo's comics...

Regards,


----------



## Fading Fast

EponymousFunk said:


> This bit of conversation reminds me of " Chasing Amy"; the sub-plot between Banky and Holden and their fans regarding Banky's contribution to the duo's comics...
> 
> Regards,


Saw it close to when it came out and remember liking it, but that has to be nearly twenty years ago. The female lead was cute as heck if memory serves.


----------



## Fading Fast

Continuing our discussion, this guy's got some serious illustrator talent:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Continuing our discussion, this guy's got some serious illustrator talent:
> View attachment 32253


Nice!

Has a familiar feel . . . 










And Mr. Slowboy in the flesh!

https://goodscph.com/blogs/content/interview-with-illustrator-mr-slowboy


----------



## eagle2250

That is a very informative interview with illustrator FeWang, providing the reader with a better understanding of the specific illustrations he discusses with said reader(s).


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> That is a very informative interview with illustrator FeWang, providing the reader with a better understanding of the specific illustrations he discusses with said reader(s).


Interesting, too, that he brings up Kazuo Hozumi, as I see his illustrations (example below) all the time. It's very cool that there are a few illustrators today passionate about traditional clothing.


----------



## Fading Fast

One more each from our new favorite illustrators:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> One more each from our new favorite illustrators:
> View attachment 32268
> View attachment 32269


Cool clothing and illustrations, thanks!


----------



## Fading Fast

Beside the outsized artistic talent, what struck me about this illustration are the high-rise pants on the guy at the left and the, I'm guessing, 1.5" cuffs on the guys far left and far right. One could say the double vent on the guy with his back to us is not "Ivy," but it was quite common in the Ivy era on guys dressing in that style as I've seen it in many period pics and movies.


----------



## Fading Fast

He's wearing saddles and she's wearing pennies:


----------



## eagle2250

By Jove, it appears they may be wearing one another's shoes, though women do infrequently wear penny loafers and men, at least in these parts have been known to wear saddle shoes. However I suspect men wearing black and white saddles is a pretty rare occurrence. One could build quite a story line from that illustration!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> By Jove, it appears they may be wearing one another's shoes, though women do infrequently wear penny loafers and men, at least in these parts have been known to wear saddle shoes. However I suspect men wearing black and white saddles is a pretty rare occurrence. One could build quite a story line from that illustration!


It's funny, form the '30s - '50s (based on pics and movies), it was not as unusual as it feels to us - men frequently (I'd say regularly) wore saddles and women - also regularly - wore pennies.

Growing up in the '70s, in a not-fancy, average town, a high school kid would get picked on for wearing pennies other than with a suit if going to church or wedding, etc., but he'd probably have been shot on the spot if caught wearing saddles. Girls - I payed much more attention to them - at least some, still wore saddles, but I don't remember them wearing pennies.

Then, when I started working on Wall St. in the '80s, I saw, at work, women were all '80s-style suited-up with blouses with bows and pumps or high heels, but in social situations, a lot of women wore pennies (and sometimes saddles) in a very preppy '80s way.

The more mature woman in that world wore pennies to run errands, etc., as, I assume, they were the same women that wore them as kids in the '50s. Pennies were very popular with Wall St. men in the '80s (some wore them with poplin suits to work in the summer and most wore them in non-work situations), but only rarely on the more stylish, but Wall St. leaning, guys did I see any kind of saddles.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Reflecting on the years you mention in the later paragraphs of your post above, I spent most of my working and off-duty time surrounded by people wearing uniforms or civilian rigs with black service oxfords and the majority of the women were walking on various designs of flats. I cannot remember many of them wearing penny loafers, but it was not uncommon to see gentlemen wearing penny loafers during the off hours. I remember seeing pictures of saddle shoes in magazines or on TV shows, but I can't recall seeing anyone, man or woman, wearing them in the wilds of central Pennsylvania or on any of the various military installations I haunted, as I reflect on the decidedly fogged memories of yesteryear! My wife reminds me that she wore penny loafers and knee socks, with pleated skirts and blouses with "Peter Pan collars," but I can't remember any of this. Jeez Louise, this just can't be good! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Growing up in the '70s, there were several Catholic schools in/around my town and, while I didn't go, I had many friends who did and, if memory serves (and it does as the girl's uniforms were burned into the synapses of my brain - I was a teenage boy, come on), the girls often wore saddle shoes with them.

But that probably contributed to their decline as those girls, most anyway, hated their uniforms and never wore anything from them when they didn't have too.


----------



## Fading Fast

And you can't ask for a better follow up to that ⇧ conversation than these '50s ads:


----------



## eagle2250

Those are great illustrations! In the interest of full disclosure, the saddle shoe craze did catch up with me when Allen Edmond's introduced their (I think the design was called) Shelton Saddle Shoe. My first pair was a black saddle on burgundy calf hide, followed by a (I think they called it) raisn saddle on raisin shark hide, followed by a black saddle on black shark hide, and finally I picked up a dark brown saddle on tan calf hide version. I always wanted a pair of their #8 shell saddle on #8 shell cordovan saddle shoes, but alas, such never came to pass. At this point in time only the brown saddle on tan calf saddle shoes remain in my collection.


----------



## AJP

This would have been a good Father's day 50's illustration, but It is still relevant.


----------



## AJP

This is dated 1953 by Allen Saalburg.


----------



## Fading Fast

Happy Fourth.


----------



## eagle2250

Perfect timing for posting that illustrastion for the July 4th Holiday. Looks like it's going to be hotdogs and hamburgers...grilled!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Perfect timing for posting that illustrastion for the July 4th Holiday. Looks like it's going to be hotdogs and hamburgers...grilled!


Definitely July 4th themed. I also like the guy's grey suit, white button-down-collared shirt and navy tie rig. When I dressed in suits, that was a regular-rotation outfit for me.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^Indeed, 
that would be the way to travel in style....and comfort.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Indeed,
> that would be the way to travel in style....and comfort.


Yes it would be. I'd be chattin' up the woman with that incredible and, thankfully, not-well-concealed long, lean line to her body in the blue skirt, while ordering a glass a champagne.


----------



## williamson

The interesting picture AJP has posted must come from a period when a boy of that age would want to dress like Dad. Such a time ended with the rise of the "teenager", well before the baby-boomer/hippie/student-radical "cultural revolution".


----------



## Fading Fast

williamson said:


> The interesting picture AJP has posted must come from a period when a boy of that age would want to dress like Dad. Such a time ended with the rise of the "teenager", well before the baby-boomer/hippie/student-radical "cultural revolution".


Agreed. The idea didn't fully die until the late '60s when looking like your parents became social death to a kid.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
The illustrator missed a perfect opportunity to shoe one or both of the subjects with snaffle-bit loafers, but I must ask, did they even have Bit Loafers back in those days? :icon_scratch: Seems to me I should know that.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
There is a whole lot of interesting detail incorporated in that illustration, teasing the memory's of anyone who has ever relied on subways or regional transit systems to get around. I can't help but note that if I were the guy getting hit on by the cute and somewhat overdressed blonde, I wouldn't have my fists jammed in my coat pockets! His mother should have taught him better.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> There is a whole lot of interesting detail incorporated in that illustration, teasing the memory's of anyone who has ever relied on subways or regional transit systems to get around. I can't help but note that if I were the guy getting hit on by the cute and somewhat overdressed blonde, I wouldn't have my fists jammed in my coat pockets! His mother should have taught him better.


Absolutely, as a regular subway (underground for our UK friends) rider for years, it's got a lot of familiarity; although, the attire is much nicer even than when I started riding in the '80s. I love the quiet classic look of the suit, vest tie guy off to the far left. And, yes, my grandmother would have given me a noticeable "tap" to the side of my head if I had stood with my hands jammed in my pockets like that while talking to a woman (or at anytime).


----------



## Fading Fast

Summer suit Monday. Love the tan / hate the tie and PS matching (love the tie on its own with the suit)


----------



## eagle2250

^^
It's been troubling me for years, but is finally clear to me why those ladies at work kept staring at me and giggling...it must have been my Hart Schaffner & Marx suits. LOL.


----------



## IT_cyclist

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 32431
> 
> Summer suit Monday. Love the tan / hate the tie and PS matching (love the tie on its own with the suit)


I think the brunette could be arrested for her thoughts.


----------



## Fading Fast

IT_cyclist said:


> I think the brunette could be arrested for her thoughts.


Agreed. In this thread, we periodically touch on how sexually aggressive the looks of both sexes can be in those '50s ads. Different times have their norms and, it appears from the massive amount of evidence in just this thread, glaring sexual looks were part of the '50s acceptable advertising norm.

Even before MeToo, many of these ads would not have flown in today's environment. It's funny in a way as we are a much more openly sexual society - how people dress and talk about it, what's shown in movies and on TV, etc. - but you just know that type of ad would provoke a negative reaction today.


----------



## Fading Fast

It's funny to see smoking in an ad, but as the saying goes, different times. I do love the smoking guy's tie.

It's also funny how much current fashion affects us as my first thought was that those suit coats were on the long side, but they aren't really, it's just that everything today is cut so short.


----------



## eagle2250

Based on today's illustration, the 1950's must have been really lean years. Both subjects project a very lean, perhaps skinny look. The torsos also appear arguably exaggerated, but they are nice suits!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Based on today's illustration, the 1950's must have been really lean years. Both subjects project a very lean, perhaps skinny look. The torsos also appear arguably exaggerated, but they are nice suits!


Maybe that's also what threw the visual off for me as those suits, on first glance, look long to my eye.

I'm 6'1", 150 lbs and wear a 40L and those guys look thinner and taller than I do which means they need, something like, a 38 extra-long - come on, how many of those people exist in the world?


----------



## AJP

eagle2250 said:


> Based on today's illustration, the 1950's must have been really lean years. Both subjects project a very lean, perhaps skinny look. The torsos also appear arguably exaggerated, but they are nice suits!


I hypothesize that that suit coat could be construed as a 32" BOC and that he therefore should be wearing a 30" BOC judging by where his fingers would be if he closed his fingers to indicate typical trad lengths - that is just to say it is 2" off - based on his arm length.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another smoker in an ad.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
It is such a shame to foul such nice duds with the stench of antique cigarette smoke...must be a real turn-off for the ladies. However, I must also admit that Forstmann is another brand with which I am not familiar.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> It is such a shame to foul such nice duds with the stench of antique cigarette smoke...must be a real turn-off for the ladies. However, I must also admit that Forstmann is another brand with which I am not familiar.


Agreed on both. I wonder if Flanderian or others remember the brand?


----------



## Charles Dana

We interrupt this fascinating thread for a brief, but related, diversion.

I love the still photos that Fading Fast has been posting from Ivy's heyday, and hope he keeps up the great work. But what about moving images of interesting menswear from that period, or at least from 1960 and 1961?

If you have some extra time, I recommend you go to You Tube and type the name "Gregg Oppenheimer" in the search field (but leave out the quotation marks). Gregg uploads old videos. In his list of uploads, you will find many episodes of a sitcom called "Angel."

Gregg is the son of Jess Oppenheimer, who produced and co-wrote "I Love Lucy." Hoping to score a follow-up hit with a sitcom featuring a ditzy housewife and an exasperated-but-loving-husband, Jess Oppenheimer created a series called "Angel," starring French actress Annie Fargé and Marshall Thompson. It aired during the 1960-61 television season.

"Angel" is a stinker of a show. The character that Annie Fargé plays is annoying--petulant and shrill. No wonder it was axed after just one season. Still, I suggest you tune into the episodes not to watch them from beginning to end--that would drive you nuts--but to skim through them and focus on the menswear.

Surprisingly, most of the "Angel" episodes that Gregg Oppenheimer has posted have pretty crisp, clear picture quality--not like the blurry kinescopes that you'd expect from an obscure show. And the clothing Marshall Thompson and the other male actors wear in the show is extremely varied and well-cut: suits (2-button and 3-button); sport coats; polo shirts; button-front casual shirts; slacks; khakis; buttondown collars (albeit with short points). A popover shirt even makes an appearance. These shows are from a time when casual wear was light years away from slob wear.

Of course, the shows are in black and white. Still, given the relatively high quality of the images and the excellent cut and taste of the men's clothing, "Angel" is worth a look. A lot of scenes are essentially animated versions of Fading Fast's ads. But you'll want to fast-forward liberally.

Be sure to check out the sport coat that James Garner is wearing in the episode in which he appears as himself.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ That's quite the sport coat - white with a buttoned breast pocket. I did like the tab collar he wore later on.

But as you note - that show is all but unwatchable. She is awful - nails on a chalkboard.

As with other pre-hippie '60s shows - *Bachelor Father, Father Knows Best, The Twilight Zone* and so many more - they are clothing time-capsule gems.

P.S., All hell breaks loose with my cursor whenever a word decides to become an underlined link - it makes completing the sentence very hard.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

John Forsythe "Bachelor Father:"


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed on both. I wonder if Flanderian or others remember the brand?


It's just like saying _Beetlejuice! _

I do remember similar ads. Forstmann did not make clothing, rather it made both yarn, and the cloth from which it was woven. Its customers were mainly U.S. tailored clothing makers. They were hoping for a "pull through" effect by advertising directly to the consumer to create a demand among the makers to which they sold. But I guess we all know what happened to the U.S. tailored clothing apparel industry, and hence, its suppliers. 

Edit: Further research shows that I have fallen victim to Premature Exclamation! 🤔 Forstmann is still extant. In '99 it was purchased by Canadian firm Victor Woolens, and is today known as Victor Forstmann. With apologies to the ten's of thousands who glean the forums hourly for information, I have no knowledge as to their precise line of business.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 32486


Lunch at Micky D's?


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Lunch at Micky D's?


As you imply, also not my childhood.

Cool color on Forstmann.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> As you imply, also not my childhood.
> 
> Cool color on Forstmann.


No, but I wouldn't have minded. 

This could lead to an unfortunate meditation on the differences between old money and the nouveau riche . I'm unsure as to which group the gentleman depicted may have belonged. But from my personal experience, the former might more likely be grabbing a stool at Woolworth's.

But I guess the whole concept of old money has been submerged by the arrivistes. I do recall it still lingering in the early '70's when Rolls could be found double-parked outside Saks while their mistress popped in to do a bit of impromptu shopping.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> No, but I wouldn't have minded.
> 
> This could lead to an unfortunate meditation on the differences between old money and the nouveau riche . I'm unsure as to which group the gentleman depicted may have belonged. But from my personal experience, the former might more likely be grabbing a stool at Woolworth's.
> 
> But I guess the whole concept of old money has been submerged by the arrivistes. I do recall it still lingering in the early '70's when Rolls could be found double-parked outside Saks while their mistress popped in to do a bit of impromptu shopping.


Having started on Wall Street on the floor of the NYSE in '85 - an era a fast money and new wealth (like today, but today the $s are in tech not Wall St.) - I saw both the old and new money worlds up close and colliding (literally on the floor during trading hours).

As you imply, stereotypes don't alway capture it all as the old money can be frugal or quietly luxurious and the new money can be frugal (doesn't believe it will last) and quietly or loudly luxurious (old money is rarely loud - usually only when an insecure scion has too much control over too big a trust fund).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Having started on Wall Street on the floor of the NYSE in '85 - an era a fast money and new wealth (like today, but today the $s are in tech not Wall St.) - I saw both the old and new money worlds up close and colliding (literally on the floor during trading hours).
> 
> As you imply, stereotypes don't alway capture it all as the old money can be frugal or quietly luxurious and the new money can be frugal (doesn't believe it will last) and quietly or loudly luxurious (old money is rarely loud - usually only when an insecure scion has too much control over too big a trust fund).


Except for specific expenditures, old money could be so tight it squeaked. But even more than simply being cheap, flagrant displays of expenditure only for the sake of such were considered vulgar. I know I'm old, because I still do. Not everyone of my generation shares this opinion -


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with tan suits for another day:


----------



## eagle2250

The handsome gent in the khaki hued suit, paired with the green plaid shirt and tie, gives me some ideas for the next time I'm wearing my Khaki cotton poplin suit. In the past I've just worn plain white or pale blue shirts with that rig. Thanks for the new ideas.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The handsome gent in the khaki hued suit, paired with the green plaid shirt and tie, gives me some ideas for the next time I'm wearing my Khaki cotton poplin suit. In the past I've just worn plain white or pale blue shirts with that rig. Thanks for the new ideas.


It's bold but it works.

I've worn some light blue with white-collar-and-cuffs shirts with tan poplins that, IMHO, work surprisingly well as I only did it after I saw it on someone else as, in my head, the mixing of the casual poplin and dressy white-collar shirt wouldn't work well, but it does.


----------



## Fading Fast

Mead Schaeffer (1898-1980). The enigmatic man in the white suit and revolver. With the tropical suit and the Javanese puppet design in the background, this is presumably an illustration for a story set in the Far East. Schaeffer produced illustrations for many American magazines and numerous 'adventure' books, including 'Moby Dick' & 'The Count of Monte Christo'


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Great picture. The gentleman, while certainly projecting an arguably enigmatic look, does provide some hints at what he is about. The pistol he carries looks to be a German Luger P-08; semi-automatic action employing an 8 round box magazine of 9mm ammunition and exhibiting a nasty habit of malfunctioning in the heat of battle. Knowing that and noting the furtive look in his eyes, the gentleman is probably soiling the seat of those nice white pants he is wearing. Just thinkin.....:crazy:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 32538
> 
> Mead Schaeffer (1898-1980). The enigmatic man in the white suit and revolver. With the tropical suit and the Javanese puppet design in the background, this is presumably an illustration for a story set in the Far East. Schaeffer produced illustrations for many American magazines and numerous 'adventure' books, including 'Moby Dick' & 'The Count of Monte Christo'


Absolutely magnificent art work!

A strong Impressionist feel. Reminds me a bit of Toulouse-Lautrec.

Edit: And, of course, N.C. Wyeth.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Absolutely magnificent art work!
> 
> A strong Impressionist feel. Reminds me a bit of Toulouse-Lautrec.
> 
> Edit: And, of course, N.C. Wyeth.


Several years ago, I saw an exhibit of his work at the Met here in NYC and realized that his influence - to this day - is incredible. Once you become familiar with his work, you can't help seeing its offspring in many current ads, artwork, branding etc..


----------



## Mike Petrik

eagle2250 said:


> Those are great illustrations! In the interest of full disclosure, the saddle shoe craze did catch up with me when Allen Edmond's introduced their (I think the design was called) Shelton Saddle Shoe. My first pair was a black saddle on burgundy calf hide, followed by a (I think they called it) raisn saddle on raisin shark hide, followed by a black saddle on black shark hide, and finally I picked up a dark brown saddle on tan calf hide version. I always wanted a pair of their #8 shell saddle on #8 shell cordovan saddle shoes, but alas, such never came to pass. At this point in time only the brown saddle on tan calf saddle shoes remain in my collection.


I still own and wear black/burgundy Sheltons. Handsome and comfy shoe.


----------



## Fading Fast

One more tan/light suit:








Looks very '30s Apparel Arts to me - just a beautiful illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> One more tan/light suit:
> View attachment 32571
> 
> Looks very '30s Apparel Arts to me - just a beautiful illustration.


'30's, possibly Esquire. Part of a page of illustrations, if I recall. Maybe Fellows, or possibly Hurd.

Nice!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## 89826

Speaking of Forstmann and clothing, I know Tony, son of patriarch Julius and brother of Ted and Nick.


----------



## Flanderian

89826 said:


> Speaking of Forstmann and clothing, I know Tony, son of patriarch Julius and brother of Ted and Nick.


Do/did they have something to do with the cloth business? If so, are they still active in Victor Forstmann?


----------



## Fading Fast

Was going to move on form the tan-suit-a-thon, but saw this one yesterday and liked it and the artwork:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Was going to move on form the tan-suit-a-thon, but saw this one yesterday and liked it and the artwork:
> View attachment 32591


Nice!


----------



## Fading Fast

I sincerely had planed to move on from the tan-suit-a-thon, but stumbled across these late yesterday:


----------



## 89826

Flanderian said:


> Do/did they have something to do with the cloth business? If so, are they still active in Victor Forstmann?


Yes, there was a Fostmann Mills. It went bankrupt decades ago. I don't know anything about Victor Forstmann.

The brothers went into finance. Ted was one of the first prominent private equity investors and dated Princess Diana, among other famous women. Tony remade a fortune on Wall Street.


----------



## Flanderian

89826 said:


> Yes, there was a Fostmann Mills. It went bankrupt decades ago. I don't know anything about Victor Forstmann.
> 
> The brothers went into finance. Ted was one of the first prominent private equity investors and dated Princess Diana, among other famous women. Tony remade a fortune on Wall Street.


Thanks for the update!


----------



## Fading Fast

Not an illustration, but a cool ad


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not an illustration, but a cool ad
> View attachment 32632


Rectitude, circa 1961!

:happy:


----------



## Flanderian

Caption: _"But don't you *want* to be a Dad!?"








_


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Quoting the immortal words of that lovable animated character Scooby Doo, "Ruh-Roh!"


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Quoting the immortal words of that lovable animated character Scooby Doo, "Ruh-Roh!"


----------



## Fading Fast

You couldn't get much closer to the last year when Trad/Ivy ruled than '66, so it's no surprise to see the coach wearing a navy blazer, grey dress trousers, pennies, a white shirt (maybe OCBD, but the collar doesn't support that) and conservative stripped tie. No sweats, Ts or hoodies for this coach.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> You couldn't get much closer to the last year when Trad/Ivy ruled than '66, so it's no surprise to see the coach wearing a navy blazer, grey dress trousers, pennies, a white shirt (maybe OCBD, but the collar doesn't support that) and conservative stripped tie. No sweats, Ts or hoodies for this coach.
> View attachment 32652


Don Adams!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 32665


Love this one, the suit is cut and fits beautifully. And alway s a fan of the pin collar.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Love this one, the suit is cut and fits beautifully. And alway s a fan of the pin collar.


Looks like a club collar too. Brooks is offering at least one club collar shirt this season. Brooks' club collar is tiny, and if worn with a pin, you'd likely need a tie from '66 to be able to make a small enough knot!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Looks like a club collar too. Brooks is offering at least one club collar shirt this season. Brooks' club collar is tiny, and if worn with a pin, you'd like need a tie for '66 to be able to make a small enough knot!


I saw it and if I didn't have (who knows) 30 or more all but unused dress shirts hanging in my closet now, I'd have bought one. I'd team it up with a narrow tie and lapel to sport a '60s vibe, but I have so few opportunities to do so, that I can't justify spending any more a classic biz clothes.


----------



## Fading Fast

A bonus entry in the tan-suit-a-thon:








To scale, I'm guessing she ⇧ has a 12" waist. The only person in real life who came close to that is Hope Lange ⇩ back in the '50s.


----------



## Flanderian

As a retiree, I don't know how many dress shirts I have, but it's more than I wear. Bought a Brooks tab collar a couple years back, and think I've worn it twice. Was playing in my mind with wearing it for our next Christmas party! 

For grocery shopping? To pick up pizza? To go get robbed in when I next have my car serviced? It's a common predicament.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A bonus entry in the tan-suit-a-thon:
> View attachment 32666
> 
> To scale, I'm guessing she ⇧ has a 12" waist. The only person in real life who came close to that is Hope Lange ⇩ back in the '50s.
> View attachment 32667


Great illustration and ad!

Hope Lange was such a beautiful young woman! Great illustration and photo.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration and ad!
> 
> Hope Lange was such a beautiful young woman! Great illustration and photo.


She was stunning. "Best of Everything" and "Peyton Place" are both enjoyable soap opera movies in part owing to her. "Best of Everything" is Mid Century Modern joy.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> You couldn't get much closer to the last year when Trad/Ivy ruled than '66, so it's no surprise to see the coach wearing a navy blazer, grey dress trousers, pennies, a white shirt (maybe OCBD, but the collar doesn't support that) and conservative stripped tie. No sweats, Ts or hoodies for this coach.
> View attachment 32652


The coach in that illustration looks like he could be Kevin Spacy's forgotten twin brother...yes, no? The kid he is treating, AKA: Muscles, has really gotten knocked around in this game! :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The coach in that illustration looks like he could be Kevin Spacy's forgotten twin brother...yes, no? The kid he is treating, AKA: Muscles, has really gotten knocked around in this game! :icon_scratch:


Good call on the coach as he definitely has a Spacey echo.


----------



## Fading Fast

Love the fit of his suit. IMHO, it's slim not skinny with proper proportions for a tall thin man (not the silly too short and/or too tight stuff you often seen done today). At 6'1", 150 lbs. and narrow-ish smolders, that's how I try to get my suits to fit.

Clearly, the wasp waist was in as this comely blonde - like the others above - is, to scale, sporting a 10"-12" one.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Nuddin'? Hmm, thought the classic '60s take on Ivy or the corseted waist would generate a comment or two.

Okay then, let's go in another direction for the weekend:








Is he wearing an ascot?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nuddin'? Hmm, thought the classic '60s take on Ivy or the corseted waist would generate a comment or two.
> 
> Okay then, let's go in another direction for the weekend:
> View attachment 32696
> 
> Is he wearing an ascot?


Nice! I like the whole aesthetic, but it is particularly the yellow trousers that bring back memories. I had a pair that color purchased from Paul Stuart in the early '70's. Actually a very versatile color, and one that I enjoy which is well suited to the season and ultra casual wear. Mine were a linen/poly blend. It was very fine quality cloth with some marvelous properties such as comfort, durability and being hard wearing. Too bad for the no-poly snootiness, as if well used, poly can contribute too weaving some excellent cloth.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Nice! I like the whole aesthetic, but it is particularly the yellow trousers that bring back memories. I had a pair that color purchased from Paul Stuart in the early '70's. Actually a very versatile color, and one that I enjoy which is well suited to the season and ultra casual wear. Mine were a linen/poly blend. It was very fine quality cloth with some marvelous properties such as comfort, durability and being hard wearing. Too bad for the no-poly snootiness, as if well used, poly can contribute too weaving some excellent cloth.


Poly or at least man-made fibers are making a comeback as there seems to be much more acceptance of them from the current young generation. I don't have any hard rules, but have found that, give or take, 10% or so can improve a fabric's shape holding and wrinkle resistance without compromising the breathability and hand feel of the natural fiber.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Poly or at least man-made fibers are making a comeback as there seems to be much more acceptance of them from the current young generation. I don't have any hard rules, but have found that, give or take, 10% or so can improve a fabric's shape holding and wrinkle resistance without compromising the breathability and hand feel of the natural fiber.


My experience has been that a good poly blend actually enhances breathability. I think the real culprit may be cheap permanent sizing solutions applied to cheap poly blends to give them body, more so than the poly itself.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> My experience has been that a good poly blend actually enhances breathability. I think the real culprit may be cheap permanent sizing solutions applied to cheap poly blends to give them body, more so than the poly itself.


Unfairly, my unfavorable opinion of man-made fibers was formed in the '70s and '80s when they - especially at the level of clothes that I could afford - were cheaper and you can feel it.

In truth, the blends today do look and feel much better and I've let a few creep into the wardrobe here and there (beyond the "acceptable" 10%), but I can't help leaning away from them.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nuddin'? Hmm, thought the classic '60s take on Ivy or the corseted waist would generate a comment or two.
> 
> Okay then, let's go in another direction for the weekend:
> View attachment 32696
> 
> Is he wearing an ascot?


It sure looks like he is wearing an ascot and his lady is showing the proper wear of a bandana. I can't tell for sure, but it looks like even the poodle is into the proper wear of neck wear! These days the drink of choice, were it Pepsi, would be Diet Pepsi.


----------



## EponymousFunk

Fading Fast said:


> Is he wearing an ascot?


It sure looks like he is. I almost picked one up in a thrift store a week ago, but then pictured myself wearing it; several people stared in confusion at my spontaneous guffaw.


----------



## Fading Fast

I posted this one for two reasons. One, I just like its fun feel and the nice, classic, simple-but-thougtful way the woman is dressed.

Also, does anyone know what kind of jacket or sweater the man sitting is wearing? It almost looks like a barn coat, but I really doubt that's what it is.

Also, it looks like he has slip-on Vans or similar sneakers/deck shoe. Thoughts?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I posted this one for two reasons. One, I just like its fun feel and the nice, classic, simple-but-thougtful way the woman is dressed.
> 
> Also, does anyone know what kind of jacket or sweater the man sitting is wearing? It almost looks like a barn coat, but I really doubt that's what it is.
> 
> Also, it looks like he has slip-on Vans or similar sneakers/deck shoe. Thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 32717


Really hard to make out any detail of the jacket, even when enlarged. Looks as if it might be some form of unstructured jacket, or shirt jacket. Looks as if it might have a center vent. May, or may not, have a collar, can't see enough to hazard a guess as to type if it does.

Agree, cute illustration!


----------



## Fading Fast

Some fun stuff for today.

First, a couple of "artsy" ones from Pepsi (and another guy with an ascot and women with 12" waists, apparently, because they drink Pepsi):
















And this crazy one - some public-service / teen-warning effort at the time, I assume - which I posted, not so much for the oddness, but because it's interesting the that "good" couple, the couple that reads and the girl that gets the "good" guy look very Ivy from a distance:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Some fun stuff for today.
> 
> First, a couple of "artsy" ones from Pepsi (and another guy with an ascot and women with 12" waists, apparently, because they drink Pepsi):
> View attachment 32760
> View attachment 32761
> 
> 
> And this crazy one - some public-service / teen-warning effort at the time, I assume - which I posted, not so much for the oddness, but because it's interesting the that "good" couple, the couple that reads and the girl that gets the "good" guy look very Ivy from a distance:
> View attachment 32762


Three great illustrations!

(But who wants literate women!? :icon_scratch

:hidden:


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> I posted this one for two reasons. One, I just like its fun feel and the nice, classic, simple-but-thougtful way the woman is dressed.
> 
> Also, does anyone know what kind of jacket or sweater the man sitting is wearing? It almost looks like a barn coat, but I really doubt that's what it is.
> 
> Also, it looks like he has slip-on Vans or similar sneakers/deck shoe. Thoughts?
> 
> View attachment 32717


So does that imply that the Greasers prefer Coca-Cola? LOL


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nuddin'? Hmm, thought the classic '60s take on Ivy or the corseted waist would generate a comment or two.
> 
> Okay then, let's go in another direction for the weekend:
> View attachment 32696
> 
> Is he wearing an ascot?


I do believe I see an ascot. Seems to ruffled for a turtleneck and a turtleneck would be awfully layered for the weather in the advert.


----------



## Fading Fast

One could use this coat in NYC today.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> One could use this coat in NYC today.
> View attachment 32807


Love it! :icon_cheers:

The clothes, the art work and the mood.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Love it! :icon_cheers:
> 
> The clothes, the art work and the mood.


Agreed, agreed and agreed.


----------



## iam.RobS

Flanderian said:


> If you've not seen it, you might enjoy Spielberg's "small" 2002 film, _*Catch Me if You Can* _with DiCaprio as the young protagonist. Just a well made, solid and entertaining film set in the era. Fine cast and excellent performances throughout, but perhaps most astonishing, it's largely true.
> 
> Obviously, I'm a big fan.


I really enjoyed Leonardo De Caprio in Catch Me if you Can, and loved the scene with the aspiring Pan Am stewardesses. Loved the men's fashions that he, Tom Hanks and Christopher Walken wore.


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> One could use this coat in NYC today.
> View attachment 32807


Methinks the artist might've liked Clark Gable's facial features a bit. Then again, who didn't/doesn't? The man was a stud. Serious WW2 service, to boot.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cassadine said:


> Methinks the artist might've liked Clark Gable's facial features a bit. Then again, who didn't/doesn't? The man was a stud. Serious WW2 service, to boot.


Kudos - very good call.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Indeed,
a man's man and a ladies man to boot. It just can't get much better than that!


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with raincoats for a second day.

To be honest, it's more about her than him - she is '60-chic to the max.

Borrowing from Cassadine, I'd almost go so far as to say she echoes Audrey Hepburn.

For my friend Flanderian - love this artwork.









And Ms. Hepburn:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with raincoats for a second day.
> 
> To be honest, it's more about her than him - she is '60-chic to the max.
> 
> Borrowing from Cassadine, I'd almost go so far as to say she echoes Audrey Hepburn.
> 
> For my friend Flanderian - love this artwork.
> View attachment 32861
> 
> 
> And Ms. Hepburn:
> View attachment 32862
> 
> View attachment 32863


Very nice!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Indeed,
> a man's man and a ladies man to boot. It just can't get much better than that!


Called "The King of Hollywood" in his day and married one of my favorites:

Carole Lombard:









To make quite the handsome couple:


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Called "The King of Hollywood" in his day and married one of my favorites:
> 
> Carole Lombard:
> View attachment 32871
> 
> 
> To make quite the handsome couple:
> View attachment 32872


It's really unfortunate she died so young, she was so talented. My late father-in law was such a fan he named my wife Carole.


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> Kudos - very good call.
> View attachment 32853
> View attachment 32854


The guy was a mensch!


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> Called "The King of Hollywood" in his day and married one of my favorites:
> 
> Carole Lombard:
> View attachment 32871
> 
> 
> To make quite the handsome couple:
> View attachment 32872


She was beautiful in a real classy way. So much so that Quasimodo would move up in the world on her arm.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cassadine said:


> She was beautiful in a real classy way. So much so that Quasimodo would move up in the world on her arm.


True (and well said), but any woman also moved up in the world by being welcomed on his arm.


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> True (and well said), but any woman also moved up in the world by being welcomed on his arm.


Absolutely. Sometimes the stars align and water seeks its own level.


----------



## Flanderian

1954 -


----------



## Fading Fast

Good one ⇧. What I like about casual '50s attire is that men would wear wool dress trousers - usually gray - with casual jackets, etc. I see it in the movies all the time. Today, it's all jeans, chinos or workout pants. Wearing dress trousers - especially heavy weight ones with a rougher texture - is a great look that we've all but given up on.


----------



## Fading Fast

These are from the website Ivy Style https://www.ivy-style.com/hsm-archives-finale-a-youthful-look-of-slim-straightness.html which has a few more illustrations and some commentary. The clothes on the college kids in the background in the first pic are fantastic:


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> 1954 -
> 
> View attachment 32887


Game day! Always exciting. I can remember wearing jackets similar to thew ones in the illustration, but can;t remember ever wearing a tie to either a college or professional game. :icon_scratch: I think that may qualify me as some sort of an AmJack.


----------



## Corcovado

While it is slightly off topic from the thread title, I wonder if anyone has pics from such sources as LL Bean catalogs from the 1980s.


----------



## Flanderian

Corcovado said:


> While it is slightly off topic from the thread title, I wonder if anyone has pics from such sources as LL Bean catalogs from the 1980s.












Here are a couple of Google image searches -

https://www.google.com/search?q=L+L...Hc2JAOYQ9C96BAgBEBg&biw=1396&bih=657&dpr=1.38
https://www.google.com/search?q=L+L...HcroDZwQ9C96BAgBEBg&biw=1396&bih=657&dpr=1.38
I'd post more images, but the files are larger than this new platform's servers permit.


----------



## Fading Fast

Let's be honest, the absolute best clothing thing in this one is how well she's rockin' her desert boots.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Let's be honest, the absolute best clothing thing in this one is how well she's rockin' her desert boots.
> View attachment 32927


I think he looks pretty snazzy too!


----------



## Flanderian

Corcovado said:


> While it is slightly off topic from the thread title, I wonder if anyone has pics from such sources as LL Bean catalogs from the 1980s.


Just visited one of the pages shown in the Google image search I did, and what should I find but a link to AAAC circa 2016 when member adoucett posted what looks like the entire LL Bean 1984 Christmas catalog. (Guess the file size wasn't a problem then.)

It's well worth visiting this thread!

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/threads/ll-bean-christmas-1984-catalog.235188/


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I think he looks pretty snazzy too!


They are both super pre-hippies-'60s cool (with a super cool looking car, too). I just don't remember seeing desert boots on a woman before.

Any car-guy know what kind of car it is?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> They are both super pre-hippies-'60s cool (with a super cool looking car, too). I just don't remember seeing desert boots on a woman before.
> 
> Any car-guy know what kind of car it is?


Maybe we didn't hang out with the right type of gals!


----------



## EponymousFunk

Fading Fast said:


> Any car-guy know what kind of car it is?


Sunbeam Alpine? The "spine" atop the fender looks wrong; perhaps a bit of artistic license to keep lawyers at bay.


----------



## Fading Fast

Weekend fun / love the art work:


----------



## Flanderian

EponymousFunk said:


> Sunbeam Alpine? The "spine" atop the fender looks wrong; perhaps a bit of artistic license to keep lawyers at bay.


Looks a bit like a pastiche of an early model MGB.


----------



## Flanderian

Flanderian said:


> Looks a bit like a pastiche of an early model MGB.


Or possibly the MG Midget. Shown below, back to back, with the above referenced Sunbeam Alpine -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Or possibly the MG Midget. Shown below, back to back, with the above referenced Sunbeam Alpine -
> 
> View attachment 32966


Looks close, either way, I love the car.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 32967


Madras as a material for a dress shirt? First time I've heard of that - was that common? Or did they mean Oxford and Madras materials were somehow woven together?

I also love the admonition that rounded collars are to be worn pinned - oh how the world has changed where now wearing a shirt untucked is acceptable in the work place.


----------



## Fading Fast

Owing to our recent car discussion, I stumbled upon these Willy ads from the '50s that had some pretty good trad clothing examples in them as well. Plus darn cute jeeps.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Owing to our recent car discussion, I stumbled upon these Willy ads from the '50s that had some pretty good trad clothing examples in them as well. Plus darn cute jeeps.
> View attachment 32985
> View attachment 32986
> View attachment 32987
> View attachment 32988


Some great illustrations, with appropriate sartorial content!

To suggest that Willys invented the SUV wouldn't be much of a stretch at all. In the early '70's, I got a ride from a colleague who iconoclasticlly drove an older Willys SUV. It was the closest thing to an agricultural conveyance in which I'd ever had the pleasure to ride. But it compared favorably to a clapped-out *Henry J* which a bother-in-law drove for several years. The Henry J in the name is for Kaiser Industries which purchased Willys Overland in '53. But rather than a tractor, it more closely reminded me of a garbage can with doors and wheels, and an engine strapped to it!


----------



## Flanderian

Absent the luggage rack, window bars and taxi sign, this vehicle reminds me of my colleague's SUV. Except that his had evidently once been painted brown, which had oxidized into an nice matte olive drab.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Some great illustrations, with appropriate sartorial content!
> 
> To suggest that Willys invented the SUV wouldn't be much of a stretch at all. In the early '70's, I got a ride from a colleague who iconoclasticlly drove an older Willys SUV. It was the closest thing to an agricultural conveyance in which I'd ever had the pleasure to ride. But it compared favorably to a clapped-out *Henry J* which a bother-in-law drove for several years. The Henry J in the name is for Kaiser Industries which purchased Willys Overland in '53. But rather than a tractor, it more closely reminded me of a garbage can with doors and wheels, and an engine strapped to it!





Flanderian said:


> Absent the luggage rack, window bars and taxi sign, this vehicle reminds me of my colleague's SUV. Except that his had evidently once been painted brow, which had oxidized into an nice matte olive drab.
> 
> View attachment 33011


Fun memory - thank you for sharing.


----------



## Fading Fast

Not an illustration, obviously, but still feels right. Love the white bucks, which gets my vote for the Ivy Classic I'd love to see still generally accepted. Yes, you can wear them, but you'll be constantly asked about them; I'd like them to be the same as wearing dirty bucks from the amount of attention they attract.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Today's post
reminds me of that iconic 1962 movie, State Fair, where Pat Boone sang about young love to a very young Ann Margaret.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Today's post
> reminds me of that iconic 1962 movie, State Fair, where Pat Boone sang about young love to a very young Ann Margaret.


Of those type of Ann Margaret movies, *Viva Las Vegas* is my favorite and also my favorite of the silly Elvis movies - the plot and dialogue are still nonsense, but those two had insanely good on-screen chemistry.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not an illustration, obviously, but still feels right. Love the white bucks, which gets my vote for the Ivy Classic I'd love to see still generally accepted. Yes, you can wear them, but you'll be constantly asked about them; I'd like them to be the same as wearing dirty bucks from the amount of attention they attract.
> 
> View attachment 33049


Mr. Trad!

I used to experience great angst as a teen that the blocky, swarthy boyo revealed in the mirror in no way resembled Pat Boone! 😭


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33088


Marvelous illustration!

One interpretation could be that the young gent on the left looks off his shoulder and sees his future!


----------



## Fading Fast

What caught my attention was the "Made to Order" service. I wonder if this was a MTM service or just a mix and match option for the jacket and pants for those with odd drops or very large, long, short or small sizes that the stores / catalog don't regularly stock. I have a vague memory - from the '70s and '80s - of old-line stores offering to special order odd sizes. It wasn't MTM, just if you had a size 14 foot or wore a 36 short suit, they could order you that size with, usually, a very long wait time. The thread and needle in the pic argue MTM, but still, it could just have been a special-size ordering option.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> What caught my attention was the "Made to Order" service. I wonder if this was a MTM service or just a mix and match option for the jacket and pants for those with odd drops or very large, long, short or small sizes that the stores / catalog don't regularly stock. I have a vague memory - from the '70s and '80s - of old-line stores offering to special order odd sizes. It wasn't MTM, just if you had a size 14 foot or wore a 36 short suit, they could order you that size with, usually, a very long wait time. The thread and needle in the pic argue MTM, but still, it could just have been a special-size ordering option.
> View attachment 33140


I suspect your conjecture is correct; that what they're advertising is special order making with a wider variety of cloth, available in any size they produced, with a limited number of options. From other ads and charts I've seen from this period and earlier, this was once very common, even the norm. I've seen charts in which makers illustrated the all the models they made with options as to back treatment, belt or no belt, etc. to the extent that you could order a substantially different garment from what retail stores might be carrying. In '84 I purchased a couple of suits from Paul Stuart that were special order through Samuelsohn because I wanted different cloth. Sizes were limited to standard sizes, and other options were minimal as well. The one other thing of value I was able to specify is that the jacket be cut for my square shoulders, as I always had to have it lowered in RTW.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I suspect your conjecture is correct; that what they're advertising is special order making with a wider variety of cloth, available in any size they produced, with a limited number of options. From other ads and charts I've seen from this period and earlier, this was once very common, even the norm. I've seen charts in which makers illustrated the all the models they made with options as to back treatment, belt or no belt, etc. to the extent that you could order a substantially different garment from what retail stores might be carrying. In '84 I purchased a couple of suits from Paul Stuart that were special order through Samuelsohn because I wanted different cloth. Sizes were limited to standard sizes, and other options were minimal as well. The one other thing of value I was able to specify is that the jacket be cut for my square shoulders, as I always had to have it lowered in RTW.


As noted, like you, I remember in the '80s it being pretty common to be able to "special order" sizes or (you jogged my memory) fabrics, but it wasn't MTM at all as we know it. That's all but disappeared today. Another thing lost. But, to be fair, today, there seems to be much more MTM.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33179


Great ad and clothes!

Boy, does that bring back memories!


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great ad and clothes!
> 
> Boy, does that bring back memories!


The sport coats are all cool, but from an artist's talent perspective, kudos on the dress on the woman serving - well done.

I'm pretty sure I remember Ballantine advertising during baseball games in the '70s.


----------



## jerry_in_motown

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33179


This is a little before my adult party time, which started in the 1970's. I attended many functions in similar attire. I don't recall anyone drinking beer, it was all cocktails. Maybe I just ran with a different crowd.


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## Fading Fast

jerry_in_motown said:


> This is a little before my adult party time, which started in the 1970's. I attended many functions in similar attire. I don't recall anyone drinking beer, it was all cocktails. Maybe I just ran with a different crowd.


I was 6 in 1970, so no idea what adults were doing. In the '80s, at college, it was all beer, but I went to a state school which means all we could afford was beer, beer or beer.

Maybe Flanderian or Eagle has some insights on the '50s or '60s (I think the '50s would be before their time, but they still might have so color)?


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I was 6 in 1970, so no idea what adults were doing. In the '80s, at college, it was all beer, but I went to a state school which means all we could afford was beer, beer or beer.
> 
> Maybe Flanderian or Eagle has some insights on the '50s or '60s (I think the '50s would be before their time, but they still might have so color)?


I was a boy in the '50's, so I did what most boys did, played ball, did chores and messed around. Spent the '60's striving toward adulthood, and recreation of any serious nature would most certainly include ties and jackets. The fashion of the late '50's through late '66 or '67 was still mainly TNSIL/Trad and that's what I tried to emulate.

1970 was my last year in Germany in the military, and beer and booze of all sorts was abundant and cheap. When I got tired of cheap drunks, I worked a bit on discrimination. Drank less, and enjoyed it far more! In addition to many fine beers (And more cr*ppy ones than you might suspect.) Germany also produces some of the finest white wines in the world in a dizzying array of type and nuance, while all from the Riesling grape. They also made a few reds and some brandy, of which they were unaccountably proud.


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## WatchmanJimG

Fading Fast said:


> Having grown up in NJ (although, I attended the not-Ivy, quite-pedestrian Rutgers University), I was in that store in the '80s. What can't come through in the ads - or the ads for J.Press, which also felt as I will describe - is the vibe or atmosphere of these stores.
> 
> Today, almost all men's clothing stores feel "salesy," with some very high-end ones feeling aloof or snooty. But these traditional Ivy stores felt neither - they felt more like an old comfortable men's club that had decided to run a clothing store on the side.
> 
> I've never been a member of an old men's club, but for business and as a guest of friends, I have been in many of them. Almost all oEven the air smelled different - like old wool or something.





Fading Fast said:


> Today, almost all men's clothing stores feel "salesy," with some very high-end ones feeling aloof or snooty. But these traditional Ivy stores felt neither - they felt more like an old comfortable men's club that had decided to run a clothing store on the side.
> 
> I've never been a member of an old men's club, but for business and as a guest of friends, I have been in many of them. Almost all of them project a similar aura: old money, old-school, traditional values, a bit worn at the edges (almost saying: "we could afford to spruce up, but why?") and a familiarity between customers and staff that comes from not only long-time relationships, but generational relationships ("I fit your dad in his first suit"). Even the air smelled different - like old wool or something.


Very well put. My experience with traditional Ivy stores is limited to O'Connell's, but I'm getting the impression I may not have missed much. The "old wool" smell you describe is intoxicating when perceived.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I was 6 in 1970, so no idea what adults were doing. In the '80s, at college, it was all beer, but I went to a state school which means all we could afford was beer, beer or beer.
> 
> Maybe Flanderian or Eagle has some insights on the '50s or '60s (I think the '50s would be before their time, but they still might have so color)?





Flanderian said:


> I was a boy in the '50's, so I did what most boys did, played ball, did chores and messed around. Spent the '60's striving toward adulthood, and recreation of any serious nature would most certainly include ties and jackets. The fashion of the late '50's through late '66 or '67 was still mainly TNSIL/Trad and that's what I tried to emulate.
> 
> 1970 was my last year in Germany in the military, and beer and booze of all sorts was abundant and cheap. When I got tired of cheap drunks, I worked a bit on discrimination. Drank less, and enjoyed it far more! In addition to many fine beers (And more cr*ppy ones than you might suspect.) Germany also produces some of the finest white wines in the world in a dizzying array of type and nuance, while all from the Riesling grape. They also made a few reds and some brandy, of which they were unaccountably proud.


My friend, the timing and sequence of events described in member Flanderain's post are remarkably similar to my own quest for maturity. However, I regret to say that my memories of those days are not quite so idyllic as member Flanderains as reported above. My Mother was and still is an angel in my eyes, struggling throughout her life to support and raise three kids on her own, while my old man was a mean drunk who abandoned us when I was four, but continued to abuse us throughout the years. I honestly can't remember ever seeing him fully sober and the only thing he ever taught me was that the razor strop clipped to his barber's chair, in addition to honing the edge of his straight razors, could be used to beat a kids butt. The last time I saw that A**Hole alive he was three sheets to the wind, had a revolver in his hand and he was taunting me to come down and show him how tough I really was. Not good memories, but they resulted in my being an overachiever throughout my life and I am uncomfortable around those who have overindulged and really conservative with my own drinking. Sorry for such a downer of a post, but those are my memories.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> My friend, the timing and sequence of events described in member Flanderain's post are remarkably similar to my own quest for maturity. However, I regret to say that my memories of those days are not quite so idyllic as member Flanderains as reported above. My Mother was and still is an angel in my eyes, struggling throughout her life to support and raise three kids on her own, while my old man was a mean drunk who abandoned us when I was four, but continued to abuse us throughout the years. I honestly can't remember ever seeing him fully sober and the only thing he ever taught me was that the razor strop clipped to his barber's chair, in addition to honing the edge of his straight razors, could be used to beat a kids butt. The last time I saw that A**Hole alive he was three sheets to the wind, had a revolver in his hand and he was taunting me to come down and show him how tough I really was. Not good memories, but they resulted in my being an overachiever throughout my life and I am uncomfortable around those who have overindulged and really conservative with my own drinking. Sorry for such a downer of a post, but those are my memories.


No words are worthy of a proper response to what you wrote, so I'll just note my sympathy and how impressed I am that such a wonderful and decent man came out of such a brutal past.


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## Fading Fast




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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33206


A truly beautiful illustration!

Ah, young innocent love! (But you know it's idealized, given an adolescent male! )


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## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> My friend, the timing and sequence of events described in member Flanderain's post are remarkably similar to my own quest for maturity. However, I regret to say that my memories of those days are not quite so idyllic as member Flanderains as reported above. My Mother was and still is an angel in my eyes, struggling throughout her life to support and raise three kids on her own, while my old man was a mean drunk who abandoned us when I was four, but continued to abuse us throughout the years. I honestly can't remember ever seeing him fully sober and the only thing he ever taught me was that the razor strop clipped to his barber's chair, in addition to honing the edge of his straight razors, could be used to beat a kids butt. The last time I saw that A**Hole alive he was three sheets to the wind, had a revolver in his hand and he was taunting me to come down and show him how tough I really was. Not good memories, but they resulted in my being an overachiever throughout my life and I am uncomfortable around those who have overindulged and really conservative with my own drinking. Sorry for such a downer of a post, but those are my memories.


Eagle, I am sorry I didn't read your post prior to responding lo FF's lovely illustration. And I can only echo his appreciation for the man you became.

The abuse of drink, or other substances, can be a tragedy in many families. Certainly it's an issue that existed in my family of origin and the milieu in which I grew up. Blessedly, what difficulties I had with parenting did include alcohol abuse.

And while I attempt humor about the prevalence of drinking to excess in my military unit, there is a percentage of youngsters for whom it proved no joke as you could literally observe them slide down that slippery slope into alcoholism.

Hope I did not offend.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> No words are worthy of a proper response to what you wrote, so I'll just note my sympathy and how impressed I am that such a wonderful and decent man came out of such a brutal past.





Flanderian said:


> Eagle, I am sorry I didn't read your post prior to responding lo FF's lovely illustration. And I can only echo his appreciation for the man you became.
> 
> The abuse of drink, or other substances, can be a tragedy in many families. Certainly it's an issue that existed in my family of origin and the milieu in which I grew up. Blessedly, what difficulties I had with parenting did include alcohol abuse.
> 
> And while I attempt humor about the prevalence of drinking to excess in my military unit, there is a percentage of youngsters for whom it proved no joke as you could literally observe them slide down that slippery slope into alcoholism.
> 
> Hope I did not offend.


Thanks to both of you for those very kind and thoughtful words. You are both AAAC members I count as my friends, from whose postings I have learned so much, over time. Flanderain because of the 'Blue suit" history we share, I consider you and I to be of the same family (or at least members of the same fraternity) and Fading Fast, embracing and exhibiting so many of our generations core values grants me great confidence in the generation that immediatly follows ours. He is a man matured and wise beyond his years. You are two true gentlemen!


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## Fading Fast




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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33242


Nice!

:beer:


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## Flanderian

My Uncle Bill's living room circa 1950?


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> My Uncle Bill's living room circa 1950?
> 
> View attachment 33256


Amazing to think there was a time, not really that long ago, that some meaningful subset of the population would wear suits, sport coats and ties when going over to a friend's house for beer and popcorn.

I'm guessing that's a Christmas celebration, but not sure. Growing up in the '70s, we used to go to a friend's house for a Christmas Eve party and about half wore suits/sport coats and ties and half wore funky '70s getups (including a lot of ugly poly sport coats).

Last year, I went to a neighbor's Christmas cocktail party (a week or so before Christmas) and, other than a few men who had clearly come from work, I was the only one there in a sport coat (open collar, sweater and chinos - I was trying to not be the "dressed up" guy) and even that outfit got a few "why so dressed up" remarks.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Nice!
> 
> :beer:


It isn't, but the image has a very Turnbull and Asser - at least the NYC townhouse store - feel.

Which, by the way, also has one of my favorite clothing store signs:


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## Fading Fast

And staying with classic English men's clothing purveyors for a hundred:


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Amazing to think there was a time, not really that long ago, that some meaningful subset of the population would wear suits, sport coats and ties when going over to a friend's house for beer and popcorn.
> 
> I'm guessing that's a Christmas celebration, but not sure. Growing up in the '70s, we used to go to a friend's house for a Christmas Eve party and about half wore suits/sport coats and ties and half wore funky '70s getups (including a lot of ugly poly sport coats).
> 
> Last year, I went to a neighbor's Christmas cocktail party (a week or so before Christmas) and, other than a few men who had clearly come from work, I was the only one there in a sport coat (open collar, sweater and chinos - I was trying to not be the "dressed up" guy) and even that outfit got a few "why so dressed up" remarks.


It was common for any significant celebration; Christmas, Easter, significant birthdays, or just an evening for the grownups with some degree of polish. What is possibly even of more interest is that most of the participants were members of the so-called working class, either blue or white-collared. One should not forget that prior to computers the world of commerce was kept turning by armies of office workers.

I try to forget as much of the '70's as possible, and maintain a vivid resentment that I had to spend so much of my my most vital young adulthood in it. We annually visit a friend's home for Christmas Eve when I wear a tie and jacket, but most other males do not. Christmas finds us with my daughter's family, where such a level formality would be over-dressing to an extent as to be offensive.

I find the illustration below both attractive and evocative of an era dating likely from the early '60's. But for the life of me, I can't figure out what activity they might be engaged in? Thought perhaps business as there appears to be an office type filing cabinet in the lower left, but the furnishing is obviously a residence. Any ideas? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> And staying with classic English men's clothing purveyors for a hundred:
> View attachment 33264


This is a truly lovely illustration!

And I'd consider myself very fortunate if I were able to wear the exact same clothing today. That's the marvelous thing about authentically handsome and classic clothing: it will be obvious you're not dressed in the fashion of the day . . . . because you look too good!

:beer:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> It was common for any significant celebration; Christmas, Easter, significant birthdays, or just an evening for the grownups with some degree of polish. What is possibly even of more interest is that most of the participants were members of the so-called working class, either blue or white-collared. One should not forget that prior to computers the world of commerce was kept turning by armies of office workers.
> 
> I try to forget as much of the '70's as possible, and maintain a vital resentment that I had to spend so much of my my most vital young adulthood in it. We annually visit a friend's home for Christmas Eve when I wear a tie and jacket, but most other males do not. Christmas finds us with my daughter's family, where such a level formality would be over-dressing to an extent as to be offensive.
> 
> I find the illustration below both attractive and evocative of an era dating likely from the early '60's. But for the life of me, I can't figure out what activity they might be engaged in? Thought perhaps business as there appears to be an office type filing cabinet in the lower left, but the furnishing is obviously a residence. Any ideas? :icon_scratch:
> 
> View attachment 33270


My guess, it's a president / CEO office as, sometimes, they are decorated in an upscale-living-room fashion, but the desk and (as you note) file cabinet argue office, plus it looks like a meeting around the desk - I'm going with office.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> My guess, it's a president / CEO office as, sometimes, they are decorated in an upscale-living-room fashion, but the desk and (as you note) file cabinet argue office, plus it looks like a meeting around the desk - I'm going with office.


You may well be correct, but I'm inferring a sense of informality to the gathering that might bespeak a less structured environment. That stack of hand-addressed envelopes? I'll take a leap that it might be a local political group, school board or charitable group engaging in some form of solicitation.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> You may well be correct, but I'm inferring a sense of informality to the gathering that might bespeak a less structured environment. That stack of hand-addressed envelopes? I'll take a leap that it might be a local political group, school board or charitable group engaging in some form of solicitation.


A good guess. Also solves for the one thing that didn't fit my story - the women look more like society matrons than secretaries (which, sadly, for the time, would have been their most likely role in a CEO's office).


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33299


What my wives always did before allowing me to depart for the office! :laughing:

(Though my daughters did briefly have a baby sitter who insisted she needed to press my jacket before I departed.)


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
New treasures from the annual neighborhood garage sale! Looking at that wonderful illustration and reflecting on my own garage/estate sale experiences, I find myself wondering if any of us ever got much use out of our garage sale purchases before adding them to the next garage sale we may host? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> New treasures from the annual neighborhood garage sale! Looking at that wonderful illustration and reflecting on my own garage/estate sale experiences, I find myself wondering if any of us ever got much use out of our garage sale purchases before adding them to the next garage sale we may host? :icon_scratch:


And think about the two of them dressing like that to go to a garage sale - amazing.


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## Fading Fast

An echo of Gregory Peck


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33383
> 
> An echo of Gregory Peck


While pinned, the overall look of these clothes is very _*buttoned down*_.

Very nice illustration.


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## Fading Fast




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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33428


A great illustration! But as a wide-body, the 1" tie was the bane of my existence!


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## Flanderian

One for FF -


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> A great illustration! But as a wide-body, the 1" tie was the bane of my existence!


I had a similar thought and assumed it must be the '60s and he was trying to incorporate some of the newer trends into his outfit.



Flanderian said:


> One for FF -
> 
> View attachment 33433


Thank you. Here's the thing, while not quite as nice, modern train travel - say the Acela here in the northeast - is much closer to that picture than modern air travel is to classic air travel pics.

For an extra $10 a ticket, we take "business class" on the Amtrak Regional to Saratoga (not Acela - not available on that line) and the size of the seats and space between the seats is about the same as in that pic. It's a very nice 3ish hour trip up from NYC.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I had a similar thought and assumed it must be the '60s and he was trying to incorporate some of the newer trends into his outfit.
> 
> Thank you. Here's the thing, while not quite as nice, modern train travel - say the Acela here in the northeast - is much closer to that picture than modern air travel is to classic air travel pics.
> 
> For an extra $10 a ticket, we take "business class" on the Amtrak Regional to Saratoga (not Acela - not available on that line) and the size of the seats and space between the seats is about the same as in that pic. It's a very nice 3ish hour trip up from NYC.


You had already sold me on train travel with your earlier descriptions. I've been fantasizing about possible trips with the wife, while we're both still upright. 

Fantasies revolve around a Trans Canadian Railway tour, or in their most flagrant form, a journey on the Royal Scotsman. Either would be a one-off.

But as a Manhattanite, Amtrak to Saratoga is nothing to be sniffed at. Efficient and luxurious with a classy and classic destination. Your trip is now part of my fantasies also.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> You had already sold me on train travel with your earlier descriptions. I've been fantasizing about possible trips with the wife, while we're both still upright.
> 
> Fantasies revolve around a Trans Canadian Railway tour, or in their most flagrant form, a journey on the Royal Scotsman. Either would be a one-off.
> 
> But as a Manhattanite, Amtrak to Saratoga is nothing to be sniffed at. Efficient and luxurious with a classy and classic destination. Your trip is now part of my fantasies also.
> 
> View attachment 33435


We've considered both the Trans Canadian and the Royal Scotsman (SGF really wants to do the latter).

The Amtrak Saratoga trip runs along what is called "The Water Level route," which is the old New York Central's mainline running - primarily - right next to the Hudson River. The views are incredible.

The Acela from all or part of its run from Washington to Boston is a must do if possible at some point too.

And, if you like New England / Maine - the "Downeaster -" Amtrak's train service from Boston up through part of Maine is fantastic. We did it in the snow once - one of the best train experiences I've ever had, it was like a movie fantasy trip.


----------



## eagle2250

We haven't taken any inter-state train trips in years, but did so on a number of occasions from 1975 through the mid-1980's. I don't know if they still have them, but if sleeping compartments are still and option, an overnight trip on the train is a must-do and eating in the dining car is a pleasant experience...the food is reasonably Ok, but not great!


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## Cassadine

Not an illustration. But this photo shows a more genteel era. Or does it? This is 'Da BX in the 60's. But for those of us from the area, we know that NYC's finest do their very best to keep the area civilized during Yankee games; vacationers getting mugged by the locals is bad for business. I've heard from good authorities that the locals know--and are told repeatedly--to behave while the tourists and game watchers are around.


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## Cassadine

The Mick was as far from Ivy as any man could get, but RFK is on center stage here, and he was as Ivy as man could get. Mickey looks faintly amused.


----------



## Cassadine

Just learned this was Mickey Mantle Day commemorating his 2000th game in Pinstripes. Yes, you capitalize _Pinstripes_ when referencing The Bronx Bombers.


----------



## Cassadine

And I hope the oddity of that RFK-Mickey photo hasn't ruined the thread. It is a very weird photo.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cassadine said:


> Not an illustration. But this photo shows a more genteel era. Or does it? This is 'Da BX in the 60's. But for those of us from the area, we know that NYC's finest do their very best to keep the area civilized during Yankee games; vacationers getting mugged by the locals is bad for business. I've heard from good authorities that the locals know--and are told repeatedly--to behave while the tourists and game watchers are around.
> 
> View attachment 33437


Your information is correct. During games, there's a modus vivendi between the cops and local criminal element where the "outsiders" are given a pass to and from the game, but woe be the outsider who wanders there away from the hours of the truce or away from the main paths to transportation. That said, you don't need to be particularly aware to feel the dangerousness of the area and intuit that your safety is in the crowds and overwhelming police presence during game time.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cassadine said:


> And I hope the oddity of that RFK-Mickey photo hasn't ruined the thread. It is a very weird photo.


Not at all - good stuff and always room for Yankee references.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Your information is correct. During games, there's a modus vivendi between the cops and local criminal element where the "outsiders" are given a pass to and from the game, but woe be the outsider who wanders there away from the hours of the truce or away from the main paths to transportation. That said, you don't need to be particularly aware to feel the dangerousness of the area and intuit that your safety is in the crowds and overwhelming police presence during game time.


Jeez Louise, the "mean streets of the Bronx." I didn't realize they were (still) quite that mean! :cold:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, the "mean streets of the Bronx." I didn't realize they were (still) quite that mean! :cold:


Better than the '70s, but as Rick in "Casablanca" says to the nazi Major:

Maj. Heinrich Strasser: How about New York?
Rick Blaine: Well there are certain sections of New York, Major, that I wouldn't advise you to invade.


----------



## Fading Fast

An bit of a different artistic style to this one:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> An bit of a different artistic style to this one:
> View attachment 33481


Cool!


----------



## Fading Fast

The date said 1945.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33500
> 
> The date said 1945.


Nifty!


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> Your information is correct. During games, there's a modus vivendi between the cops and local criminal element where the "outsiders" are given a pass to and from the game, but woe be the outsider who wanders there away from the hours of the truce or away from the main paths to transportation. That said, you don't need to be particularly aware to feel the dangerousness of the area and intuit that your safety is in the crowds and overwhelming police presence during game time.


Definitely not a place to be if those aren't your home environs. And you're definitely on the money in your reply to eagle--the 70's were awful for NYC. Manhattan was a cesspool, and frankly, the Bronx has always been the most hardscrabble of the boroughs. The place was a wasteland during the John Lindsey and Abe Beam years. Although I think Lindsey did get quite the money push through for the stadium.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33512


Lovely Art Deco illustration!

:beer:


----------



## Flanderian

Last one -


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The wife and I were discussing a trip to Vegas this December and I just found out there is train service from Orlando to Las Vegas. Now if they still have sleeping cars, we may just find ourselves living the dream! Thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The wife and I were discussing a trip to Vegas this December and I just found out there is train service from Orlando to Las Vegas. Now if they still have sleeping cars, we may just find ourselves living the dream! Thanks for the inspiration.


That sounds great. I've never done Amtrak overnight as all our trips have been for 8 hours or less, so will be excited to hear your review.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross posted on the Fashion-side's "Tweed" thread:


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The wife and I were discussing a trip to Vegas this December and I just found out there is train service from Orlando to Las Vegas. Now if they still have sleeping cars, we may just find ourselves living the dream! Thanks for the inspiration.


Sounds marvelous!

:beer:



Fading Fast said:


> Cross posted on the Fashion-side's "Tweed" thread:
> View attachment 33542


That's a *great* illustration! McGregor was mainly a maker of better quality sportswear. It makes me sad for the era when you could buy a modestly priced item, but of decent quality with a sense of style. I had items from them in boyhood and young adulthood that I just wore the heck out of! Comfortable, and well suited to their intended purpose.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
Your Bass Weejun's illustration caused my heart to beat just a little bit faster. That's just the way things seem to be when dealing with a first love!


----------



## London380sl

First time I've seen the Weejun Ties. Evidently not a big seller.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> First time I've seen the Weejun Ties. Evidently not a big seller.


Apparently, "brand diversification" was as iffy an effort then as now.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33582


Mavest! Another middle quality maker of decent tailored clothing.

:beer:


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Mavest! Another middle quality maker of decent tailored clothing.
> 
> :beer:


As a middle-quality person, I'd be their perfect customer.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> As a middle-quality person, I'd be their perfect customer.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> As a middle-quality person, I'd be their perfect customer.





Flanderian said:


>


 ....and once again a brand of which I had never even heard. I suspect I might have grown up under a rock in central Pennsylvania! :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ....and once again a brand of which I had never even heard. I suspect I might have grown up under a rock in central Pennsylvania! :crazy:


Not being sarcastic at all - you'd never heard of McGregor? Growing up in the '70s in NJ, it was a popular mid-priced (which meant high-priced to my family) brand. My mom would buy my winter coat at a discount warehouse that got last year's stuff in over the summer - I have memory of trying on a McGregor winter coat in the summer (these were not air conditioned places) and my mom trying to estimate how oversized a coat to get me based on how much I'd grow by the winter.


----------



## Fading Fast

Clearly, these are pics not illustrations, but still feel kinda/sorta right for the thread.

Regarding my post above and this one, the McGregor winter coat I got as a kid was closer to the second pic below (not exact, but more in that style than the traditional coats of the first pic).


----------



## Peak and Pine

_Sanest_ suede leather? Hmmm.
Like the shirt collars buttoned on the double dudes in the first pic. Bet I be alone in that. In pic two, note the tiny hood, a stupid hallmark of the era (1960), top cannot quite clear the pompadour and so tight cannot be easily latched, so he didn't. McGregor though, in the main, always innovative stuff.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not being sarcastic at all - you'd never heard of McGregor? Growing up in the '70s in NJ, it was a popular mid-priced (which meant high-priced to my family) brand. My mom would buy my winter coat at a discount warehouse that got last year's stuff in over the summer - I have memory of trying on a McGregor winter coat in the summer (these were not air conditioned places) and my mom trying to estimate how oversized a coat to get me based on how much I'd grow by the winter.


Your mom must have known my mother as growing up I had two types of clothes; too big, and worn out! 

Though if I recall, McGregor used to be rather hearty stuff.



Fading Fast said:


> Clearly, these are pics not illustrations, but still feel kinda/sorta right for the thread.
> 
> Regarding my post above and this one, the McGregor winter coat I got as a kid was closer to the second pic below (not exact, but more in that style than the traditional coats of the first pic).
> View attachment 33613
> View attachment 33614


:beer:


----------



## 89826

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The wife and I were discussing a trip to Vegas this December and I just found out there is train service from Orlando to Las Vegas. Now if they still have sleeping cars, we may just find ourselves living the dream! Thanks for the inspiration.


It is a grind ...


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Your mom must have known my mother as growing up I had two types of clothes; too big, and worn out!
> 
> Though if I recall. McGregor used to be rather hearty stuff.
> 
> :beer:


You are spot on, the McGregor stuff took a beatin', which is why my mom would pay a bit more for it - but still only on sale / markdown / at a discount place.

Today, most things go on "sale" all the time as it's all part of the biz model, but in the '80s and '90s, you had to pay full price in many stores or wait to see what was left over at a true season-ending sale. Owing to my upbringing and to this day, I've never paid full price for something without feeling uncomfortable, like I was doing something wrong.


----------



## Fading Fast

Back to our usual fare and the creepy visages of envy or elation that one sees regularly in '50s advertising:


----------



## London380sl

Peak and Pine said:


> In pic two, note the tiny hood, a stupid hallmark of the era (1960), top cannot quite clear the pompadour and so tight cannot be easily latched, so he didn't.


You must have been a big fan of the snorkel hood then. Actually its not a bad idea if its really frickin cold and windy but zero visibility other than straight on making it not the best thing to wear in an urban environment.:amazing:.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> You must have been a big fan of the snorkel hood then. Actually its not a bad idea if its really frickin cold and windy but zero visibility other than straight on making it not the best thing to wear in an urban environment.:amazing:.
> 
> View attachment 33659


As did every kid of the '70s, I had one at some point. Say what you will, standing at the bus stop on a bleak-and-cold January morning, that thing was quite toasty even if you did have to turn your body an entire ninety degrees just to see if the bus was coming.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Back to our usual fare and the creepy visages of envy or elation that one sees regularly in '50s advertising:
> View attachment 33646


Gotta get me one 'a dem hats!

:happy:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Back to our usual fare and the creepy visages of envy or elation that one sees regularly in '50s advertising:
> View attachment 33646


Jeez Louise, all the men are giving that jaunty commuter the 'stink eye' and all the women are drooling! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, all the men are giving that jaunty commuter the 'stink eye' and all the women are drooling! LOL.


Once you are aware of it, you see that it was quite common in '50s advertising.


----------



## Fading Fast

And another one of those with a strange gaze:








Love his suit. The patch pockets add a nice casual touch for a summer weight suit.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Looking at this most recent illustration multiple and possibly conflicting questions come to mind:
1. Is the blonde in the black bathing suit considering a potential social conquest, as she assesses the gentleman's chosen attire?
2. Is the gentleman considering his chances of getting a clandestine "peek-a-boo" shot of the beauty in the, always suggestive, black bathing suit, as he unlimbers the case from his Leica?
3. Is grandma thinking..."oh what a fortuitous time for my 'old goat' to croak on the beach, when I have his replacement in my gun sight(s)?
4. and finally, why in the hell would he be wearing a suit to the beach? 

Inquiring minds want to know. LOL. 

PS: Nice suit and one of my favorite brands!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Looking at this most recent illustration multiple and possibly conflicting questions come to mind:
> 1. Is the blonde in the black bathing suit considering a potential social conquest, as she assesses the gentleman's chosen attire?
> 2. Is the gentleman considering his chances of getting a clandestine "peek-a-boo" shot of the beauty in the, always suggestive, black bathing suit, as he unlimbers the case from his Leica?
> 3. Is grandma thinking..."oh what a fortuitous time for my 'old goat' to croak on the beach, when I have his replacement in my gun sight(s)?
> 4. and finally, why in the hell would he be wearing a suit to the beach?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know. LOL.
> 
> PS: Nice suit and one of my favorite brands!


Don't know all the answers to your questions, but our blonde friend looks to be sizing up HSM man like a lamb chop for dinner.

Slightly more seriously, you can see pics and movies from the '50s and some men - not all, most wore bathing suits - wore suits to the beach, some even wore them right onto the sand and just, maybe, took off their shoes and rolled up their pants legs a bit. It sounds crazy, but the pictorial evidence is strong.

Heck, growing up in NJ, in the '70s, I saw plenty of older men walking the boardwalk - like HSM man seems to be doing - and even going on the beach in suits or sport coats and slacks. I didn't really get it then, but I understand it a bit more now - many of them, like my grandfather, were poor and didn't have "beach," "sport," etc. clothes and just wore their one suit everywhere.

My grandfather wore a suit or sport coat everywhere as that's all he owned and all he knew as he had been poor his entire life. When he died and we cleaned out his apartment, my vague memory is he had a couple of suits, a couple of sport coats four or five dress trousers and that was about it - and they were old and threadbare.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Don't know all the answers to your questions, but our blonde friend looks to be sizing up HSM man like a lamb chop for dinner.
> 
> Slightly more seriously, you can see pics and movies from the '50s and some men - not all, most wore bathing suits - wore suits to the beach, some even wore them right onto the sand and just, maybe, took off their shoes and rolled up their pants legs a bit. It sounds crazy, but the pictorial evidence is strong.
> 
> Heck, growing up in NJ, in the '70s, I saw plenty of older men walking the boardwalk - like HSM man seems to be doing - and even going on the beach in suits or sport coats and slacks. I didn't really get it then, but I understand it a bit more now - many of them, like my grandfather, were poor and didn't have "beach," "sport," etc. clothes and just wore their one suit everywhere.
> 
> My grandfather wore a suit or sport coat everywhere as that's all he owned and all he knew as he had been poor his entire life. When he died and we cleaned out his apartment, my vague memory is he had a couple of suits, a couple of sport coats four or five dress trousers and that was about it - and they were old and threadbare.


The HSM illustration is *marvelous!*

And your social-sartorial observations insightful and spot on! Sportswear or casual wear is an innovation that in the U.S. dates largely from the 3rd decade of the 20th Century. Prior to that, men had their normal clothing; I.e., jackets, ties and trousers, and work clothing. And work clothing was very often simply a more robust or worn out version of normal clothing.

My maternal grandfather was born in 1868, And I don't think he ever wore so-called sportswear in his life. After business, he would often remove his jacket and tie to relax at home, and photographs of him can be found so attired. To his last day he insisted that men who wore lower cut shoes, as compared to high-top shoes, were questionable. 

When my grandfather was a young man, Ulysses S. Grant and his entire family could be found fully dressed in suits enjoying the beach in Long Branch, NJ.

While the era depicted in your illustration is much later, the standards of that earlier era had not yet fully eroded. And as you so aptly observe, men, particularly older men, most certainly could be found enjoying the boardwalk so attired.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> The HSM illustration is *marvelous!*
> 
> And your social-sartorial observations insightful and spot on! Sportswear or casual wear is an innovation that in the U.S. dates largely from the 3rd decade of the 20th Century. Prior to that, men had their normal clothing; I.e., jackets, ties and trousers, and work clothing. And work clothing was very often simply a more robust or worn out version of normal clothing.
> 
> My maternal grandfather was born in 1868, And I don't think he ever wore so-called sportswear in his life. After business, he would often remove his jacket and tie to relax at home, and photographs of him can be found so attired. To his last day he insisted that men who wore lower cut shoes, as compared to high-top shoes, were questionable.
> 
> When my grandfather was a young man, Ulysses S. Grant and his entire family could be found fully dressed in suits enjoying the beach in Long Branch, NJ.
> 
> While the era depicted in your illustration is much later, the standards of that earlier era had not yet fully eroded. And as you so aptly observe, men, particularly older men, most certainly could be found enjoying the boardwalk so attired.


Growing up, our house had a small back patio that we'd sit out on in the summer. When my grandfather would come over, even on really hot days, it took some real convincing to get him to take off his suit jacket or sport coat and tie. To his credit, he never said or implied anything negative about how others were dressed - usually in shorts and Ts or open-collared shirts - but he just did his thing.


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple of fun ads for the weekend:


----------



## eagle2250

^^ A great ad...
and I am familiar with Arrow shirts, having worn out more than a few in my time...and in my minds eye, I can see Mrs Eagle reclining on a comfortable pillow and placing an order for a resupply of my shirts. Yea I can see that, but these days the order would in all probability be placed online and with Amazon! LOL. 

PS: As she was walking past the compouter, while I was typing the above, she was heard to comment..."Oh I really love those old fashioned ads. They are so suggestive and yet innocent!"


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A couple of fun ads for the weekend:
> View attachment 33718
> View attachment 33719


Gosh! Doesn't look a bit like my mom did!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## New Old Stock

clever ad poking fun at the suggestive stares theme;


----------



## Flanderian

New Old Stock said:


> clever ad poking fun at the suggestive stares theme;
> 
> View attachment 33782


Very nice!


----------



## Fading Fast

A train ad, but love all the suits and ties. I'm thinking the guy reclining in the tan suit has some #8s on his feet.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33799
> 
> A train ad, but love all the suits and ties. I'm thinking the guy reclining in the tan suit has some #8s on his feet.


Ahh . . . . , lovely!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 33822


Cool illustration! As a youngster, coats of this type could still be found in closets. Think my father may have had one.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The combination of a zipper and the belt in the coat in FF's illustration is unusual, but I like the jacket. I still have a Woolrich Mackinaw jacket hanging in my closet. Given the infrequency with which I get to wear it in our present location, it could be ready for service...almost forever!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
Paraphrasing Mary Hopkin's classic lyrics, "Those were the days, my friend, when "Blizzard" winter coats were made to last and our cars had tail fins!"


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Paraphrasing Mary Hopkin's classic lyrics, "Those were the days, my friend, when "Blizzard" winter coats were made to last and our cars had tail fins!"


My real-world experience only goes back to the '70s and I only really started buying good clothes in the '80s, but Blizzard is a name I never saw or heard of 'till recently when I stumbled upon it via these ads.

Burberry, London Fog, Aquascutum (a name that does not spell itself), Mackintosh and Austin Reed are the adult men's raincoat brands I remember form the "old" days.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
Three sartorial musketeers dressed to the nines. But I must ask, were ties ever really that thin? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Three sartorial musketeers dressed to the nines. But I must ask, were ties ever really that thin? :icon_scratch:


I've seen them both in movies/pics from that era and in thrift stores (years ago when I still did that).


----------



## GRH

Fading Fast said:


> I've seen them both in movies/pics from that era and in thrift stores (years ago when I still did that).


Wore them at the time. Still maintain one or two for artsy occasions.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since we were justing talking about classic raincoats:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Since we were justing talking about classic raincoats:
> View attachment 33928
> View attachment 33929
> View attachment 33930
> View attachment 33932


Wow! Great ads, and great clothes. Once-upon-a-time, if you wanted a quality, stylish raincoat that would last forever, you bought a Burberry or Aquascutum. Aquascutum never achieved (?) the cult status of Burberry, but they were at least every bit as good.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wow! Great ads, and great clothes. Once-upon-a-time, if you wanted a quality, stylish raincoat that would last forever, you bought a Burberry or Aquascutum. Aquascutum never achieved (?) the cult status of Burberry, but they were at least every bit as good.


As someone who owned both Aquascutum raincoats and suits- I concur and would add, because Aquascutum didn't have that cult status, it offered much more value.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Since we were justing talking about classic raincoats:
> View attachment 33928
> View attachment 33929
> View attachment 33930
> View attachment 33932


Now you are talkin! Trench Coats and from whom I consider to be the two very best manufacturers. I haven't directly experienced an Aquascutum, but I'm now working on wearing out my second Burberry. Paraphrasing the late, great Elvis in his song Hound Dog, "They said the coats would last a lifetime, but that was just a lie!" My first Burberry did in fact wear out, or perhaps I should say it was more than showing it's age....and lookin like a "hound dog!"


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Now you are talkin! Trench Coats and from whom I consider to be the two very best manufacturers. I haven't directly experienced an Aquascutum, but I'm now working on wearing out my second Burberry. Paraphrasing the late, great Elvis in his song Hound Dog, "They said the coats would last a lifetime, but that was just a lie!" My first Burberry did in fact wear out, or perhaps I should say it was more than showing it's age....and lookin like a "hound dog!"


I never owned the Burberry iconic trench, but did own a wool overcast from Burberry that lasted through twenty years of very hard wear (with one relining). I lost it in a basement storage-room fire, but to be honest, it was shot - threadbare at the cuffs and collar and had lost its shape, but was still good to throw on over a pair of jeans and sweater to run errands.


----------



## EponymousFunk

Flanderian said:


> Wow! Great ads, and great clothes. Once-upon-a-time, if you wanted a quality, stylish raincoat that would last forever, you bought a Burberry or Aquascutum. Aquascutum never achieved (?) the cult status of Burberry, but they were at least every bit as good.





Fading Fast said:


> As someone who owned both Aquascutum raincoats and suits- I concur and would add, because Aquascutum didn't have that cult status, it offered much more value


A bit flip on my part, but could Burberry's success over Aquascutum be in part attributable to its being an easier name to pronounce and remember?

Regards,


----------



## Fading Fast

EponymousFunk said:


> A bit flip on my part, but could Burberry's success over Aquascutum be in part attributable to its being an easier name to pronounce and remember?
> 
> Regards,


Maybe, but I do know this, _Burberry_ is much easier to spell - I don't think I've ever just typed out _Aquascutum_ right on the first try.


----------



## EponymousFunk

Fading Fast said:


> Maybe, but I do know this, _Burberry_ is much easier to spell - I don't think I've ever just typed out _Aquascutum_ right on the first try.


Precisely. I can hear Porky Pig: Aqua-, uh uh, Acqua-, uh...Burberry

Regards,


----------



## Fading Fast

More from, as EponymousFunk would say, Aqua-, uh uh, Acqua-, uh, uh, that raincoat company:








Love the bold herringbone pattern.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> More from, as EponymousFunk would say, Aqua-, uh uh, Acqua-, uh, uh, that raincoat company:
> View attachment 33984
> 
> Love the bold herringbone pattern.


*I WANT THAT COAT!!! 😭*


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> *I WANT THAT COAT!!! 😭*


Not exactly the same, but some overlap with my Paul Stuart overcoat (acquire from Tweedy Don a year or so ago):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Not exactly the same, but some overlap with my Paul Stuart overcoat (acquire from Tweedy Don a year or so ago):
> View attachment 33991


Tweedy Don did you well, Sir!

:beer:


----------



## Flanderian

Edit: The above illustration is attributed to 1960. 1960 was, improbably, the heart of what is now thought of as 1950's Ivy, a period that ran roughly from '55 or ''56 through '66.


----------



## Fading Fast

I believe AAAC member Billax has a sport coat that echoes the one on the left. I think the patch pockets on Billax's is an improvement to the one in the illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 34003


⇧ Great pic.

I believe AAAC member Billax has a sport coat that echoes the one on the left. I think the patch pockets on Billax's is an improvement to the one in the illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast

Adding some color to our current raincoat theme:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Adding some color to our current raincoat theme:
> View attachment 34012


Very nice!

Austin Reed commissioned as nice a series of art deco ads as I've ever seen!

:happy:


----------



## Flanderian

*1956 -








*


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Austin Reed commissioned as nice a series of art deco ads as I've ever seen!
> 
> :happy:


Agreed - there's a pretty big series of them out there and they could easily be hanging in a museum.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed - there's a pretty big series of them out there and they could easily be hanging in a museum.
> View attachment 34026
> View attachment 34027
> View attachment 34028
> View attachment 34029
> View attachment 34030
> View attachment 34031


Marvelous!

Thank you!


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm guessing '30s or '40s. The tie's a bit narrow, but everything else feels '30s/'40s.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm guessing '30s or '40s. The ties a bit narrow, but everything else feels '30s/'40s.
> View attachment 34053


That is one beautiful illustration of some very handsome clothes! 👍

I would guess late 40's - early '50's.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> That is one beautiful illustration of some very handsome clothes! 👍
> 
> I would guess late 40's - early '50's.


I just image searched it on Google and found this caption:

_Vintage French ad for Zenith suits (1949). Modern & classy in navy blue._​
Good call on the time period my friend - well done.


----------



## Flanderian

Southwick, 1959 -





































Not great illustrations but for many years, when considering Ivy, Southwick was where it was at. My first suit from Paul Stuart was Southwick. GHWB preferred them. (That's our only similarity as one of us was a war hero and President of the U.S.A., and the other a recalcitrant reprobate.)


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I like the charcoal minimalism of the illustrations. In a way, they echo the zeitgeist of Ivy's understated aesthetic.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I like the charcoal minimalism of the illustrations. In a way, they echo the zeitgeist of Ivy's understated aesthetic.


I like how the drawings overlay the actual photo's of the cloth. Think they may have been newspaper ads. The style of the sketches is what I remember of Southwick ads in the NY Times and New Yorker, and suspect it's the same illustrator.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Oh, and I'd kill for a natural shoulder like that.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Oh, and I'd kill for a natural shoulder like that.


As would many of us!

Southwick and Norman Hilton were the co-equal masters of the natural shoulder. None better.










While I like design elements not part of the trad lexicon, I'm always drawn to jackets with a natural shoulder, which is likely the main reason I find the Neapolitan variant of tailored jackets generally appealing.


----------



## Flanderian

Obit for Norman Hilton, the man -

https://www.dignitymemorial.com/en-ca/obituaries/brunswick-ga/norman-hilton-4870038
Helped provide funding to launch Ralph Lauren. Didn't know that!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Obit for Norman Hilton, the man -
> 
> https://www.dignitymemorial.com/en-ca/obituaries/brunswick-ga/norman-hilton-4870038
> Helped provide funding to launch Ralph Lauren. Didn't know that!


Hope he and his family held on to that investment.


----------



## Fading Fast

'20s and distaff, but so cool, I had to post.









And more of our usual fare (might I note the white bucks w/red soles).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> '20s and distaff, but so cool, I had to post.
> View attachment 34075
> 
> 
> And more of our usual fare (might I note the white bucks w/red soles).
> View attachment 34076


Both very cool!

The top illustration reminds me of the the style that Laurence Fellows worked in prior to the very different one he evolved for AA/Esquire.

I really like the cut and fit in the bottom illustration, it's close to my personal paradigm, particularly the cut of the trousers on the gent on the right. 20-years ago, I might have been tempted to try to pull of a slightly less flamboyant version of that rig.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Both very cool!
> 
> The top illustration reminds me of the the style that Laurence Fellows worked in prior to the very different one he evolved for AA/Esquire.
> 
> I really like the cut and fit in the bottom illustration, it's close to my personal paradigm, particularly the cut of the trousers on the gent on the right. 20-years ago, I might have been tempted to try to pull of a slightly less flamboyant version of that rig.


You can feel an Egyptian-art influence in the illustrations from the '20s. I wonder if there's more to that than I think, since, with the discovery of King Tut's tomb in '22, there was a period of Egyptian mania in the US in the '20s.

In the bottom pic, as you note, the trouser on the gent to the right has a wonderful line.


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with the "international" set for one more day:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with the "international" set for one more day:
> View attachment 34150


A version of that would please me very well!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> You can feel an Egyptian-art influence in the illustrations from the '20s. I wonder if there's more to that than I think, since, with the discovery of King Tut's tomb in '22, there was a period of Egyptian mania in the US in the '20s.
> 
> In the bottom pic, as you note, the trouser on the gent to the right has a wonderful line.


This is Fellows' earlier style to which I referred -


----------



## Flanderian

Forgive the latitude, as O.T., but -


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> This is Fellows' earlier style to which I referred -
> 
> View attachment 34176


Wonderful. And as you note, similar in style to the earlier '20s illustration I posted.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another wonderful Austin Reed one.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Another wonderful Austin Reed one.
> View attachment 34200


Great illustration!


----------



## Fading Fast

Love this one:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Love this one:
> View attachment 34224


Another firm, a retailer I believe, that commissioned superb Art Deco sartorial illustrations.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> Love this one:
> View attachment 34224


(Wish this new format actually reproduced photos from a quoted post, but since it doesn't...)

Am referring to the three gentlemen at the race track from the PKZ ad, which isn't an ad per se, but a poster being used as an ad (and just where were these posters hung?*)

The PKZ (Paul Kehl Zürich) poster/ads are among the very greatest ever produced, each ( I'm making this next up) painted by an opium induced inspiration in a winowless garret by low gas light after a week or so of brooding, the first 20 drafts torn up.) These - and there are many -are almost unfathomly magnificent, in their uniqueness and their execution. How the one above landed here in a thread titled 50s Ivy am not sure. PKZ deserves a thread of its own. (And while it may not be fair to pit one against another, that dashed-out-in-fifteen-minutes dreck of the mysteriouly well-regarded Lawrence Fellows is like a Thomas Kincade to an N. C. Wyeth.)

*I have a short (4) collection of WWI original posters and have always wondered, where did they hang/paste these things?)

Editing in an afterthought. The PKZ posters _do not_ show everyone holding a cigarette, and while I realize there were a lot more smokers then and that the full impact of its suicidal nature was not known, still, regarding American clothing ads of the time, c'mon already.


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple more from Austin Reed:


----------



## Peak and Pine

Check out the price this PKZ poster went for at auction. This is not the original artwork. It's a poster from 1912(?). With a fold down the middle. O if I had money.

https://auctions.posterauctions.com/lots/view/1-OJPHC/pkz-1911


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A couple more from Austin Reed:
> View attachment 34233
> View attachment 34234


Lovely! Thank you!


----------



## Fading Fast

I don't think we've seen this Blizzand ad before:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I don't think we've seen this Blizzand ad before:
> View attachment 34258


The quintessence of Modern Era style!


----------



## Flanderian

1955 -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Love the sack suit, rep tie and pin collar, but not so much the de rigueur '50s advertising creepy "admiration" looks from the women.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love the sack suit, rep tie and pin collar, but not so much the de rigueur '50s advertising creepy "admiration" looks from the women.


Every woman wants him, every man wants to be him! :laughing:


----------



## Fading Fast

Since it's back-to-work-after-summer day, seems appropriate to refresh our suit-dressing skills:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Since it's back-to-work-after-summer day, seems appropriate to refresh our suit-dressing skills:
> View attachment 34311


Droll!

:beer:


----------



## Fading Fast

Zegna from '68 was the caption. Very continental - I'm thinking Flanderian will approve.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 34342
> 
> Zegna from '68 was the caption. Very continental - I'm thinking Flanderian will approve.


And I do! Though my personal preference is for a softer, more relaxed cut.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> And I do! Though my personal preference is for a softer, more relaxed cut.
> 
> View attachment 34344


Sharp cut to the vest.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Sharp cut to the vest.


The tailoring is Steed's. The original poster was a gentleman who briefly visited here, but about whom I cannot recall the particulars. He had Steed make him some truly magnificent clothes.


----------



## Fading Fast

Love the way the raincoat is slung over his arm and how the lining shows.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Every woman wants him, every man wants to be him! :laughing:


It's a hell of a job, but someone has to do it. Where do I sign up?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 34371
> 
> Love the way the raincoat is slung over his arm and how the lining shows.


Great illustration!



eagle2250 said:


> It's a hell of a job, but someone has to do it. Where do I sign up?


Mrs. Eagle has the application forms.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 34415


NICE art work! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> NICE art work! 👍


Agreed. The suit fits and drapes nicely. The background is well done and the women are cool looking with none of those crazy ogling looks.


----------



## Fading Fast

1955 Simpsons ad








I've never heard of Simpsons.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed. The suit fits and drapes nicely. The background is well done and the women are cool looking with none of those crazy ogling looks.


Indeed, all of what you report is true, but the jacket she is wearing gives the impression that the woman was standing right in front of the fan when a crap load of buttons hit the backside of said fan! But then, women's fashions do change again and again over time. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Indeed, all of what you report is true, but the jacket she is wearing gives the impression that the woman was standing right in front of the fan when a crap load of buttons hit the backside of said fan! But then, women's fashions do change again and again over time. :icon_scratch:


So is "a crap load" the technical term for it? LOL

As to the button explosion and as you said, not only does women's fashion change a lot, it has more extremes, overall, than men's.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> 1955 Simpsons ad
> View attachment 34452
> 
> I've never heard of Simpsons.


I'd wear that today! I've got the tie!

Does the 30-something physique come with it?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed. The suit fits and drapes nicely. The background is well done and the women are cool looking with none of those crazy ogling looks.


Since you're missin' the oglin' gals! -


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I'd wear that today! I've got the tie!
> 
> Does the 30-something physique come with it?


My shoulders were never that broad at 30 (or at any other time in my life) 



Flanderian said:


> Since you're missin' the oglin' gals! -
> 
> View attachment 34455


The overcoat over the valise is well done.


----------



## Barrister & Solicitor

Fading Fast said:


> 1955 Simpsons ad
> View attachment 34452
> 
> I've never heard of Simpsons.


I can only assume it was the Canadian department store. They shut down operations in the mid 1990s.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Since you're missin' the oglin' gals! -
> 
> View attachment 34455





Fading Fast said:


> My shoulders were never that broad at 30 (or at any other time in my life)
> 
> The overcoat over the valise is well done.


LOL. Graduating from Penn State, I could claim a 45" chest and a 29" to 30" waist. The shoulders must have been broad enough, but alas, as I aged through my mid fifties and beyond my belly measure drew within five inches of my chest...and this is just not a good look! :crazy: My blue suit at the time was USAF blue and the ladies just must have ogled occasionally. However, truth be known, I suspect the ogling was more likely to occur when one was wearing an olive drab flight suit! I look back on those times as the "good old days."


----------



## Fading Fast

And the crazy ogling is back:








1954 Pacific Craft Fabrics ad.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^^
The suit and tie, not out of place if worn today. But women's clothing and hair is subject to decade changing whims, mentioned because the women in the ad caught my eye, the light and breezy clothes they're wearing in an office setting, professional, yet not stuffy as in years prior. I was nine years old when that ad appeared, by dad had just bought a new blue '54 Ford station wagon, the first ever I'd seen with three rows of seats, little me rode alone in the third one as my father drove it home from Bolens Ford in South Portland. But it's the women and the dress and the hair that reminds me of my mother back then, and Dutch's mom, he my best friend.


----------



## Flanderian

Showing how much he missed his putt by.


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> ^^
> The suit and tie, not out of place if worn today. But women's clothing and hair is subject to decade changing whims, mentioned because the women in the ad caught my eye, the light and breezy clothes they're wearing in an office setting, professional, yet not stuffy as in years prior. I was nine years old when that ad appeared, by dad had just bought a new blue '54 Ford station wagon, the first ever I'd seen with three rows of seats, little me rode alone in the third one as my father drove it home from Bolens Ford in South Portland. But it's the women and the dress and the hair that reminds me of my mother back then, and Dutch's mom, he my best friend.


It's funny, the women's clothes that have aged the best - that are close to "timeless -" from the '30s, '40s and '50s are the clothes that were worn by the lower and lower-middle class working women and housewives.

Many of those clothes - simple cotton dresses, blouses, trousers and sweaters without many flourishes and that fit logically - are still sold today.

I have no idea if a woman could find a "society" dress from the '30s, but many companies still sell basic cotton dresses that I see all the time in movies from the '30s-'50s worn by the female shopkeepers or truck drivers' wives.

Of course, this ⇧ is an over generalization as there are exceptions both ways, but I still believe it's true at a high level. To wit, here's a company https://www.bodenusa.com that sells a lot of '30s-'50s style dresses and it doesn't even promote them as "vintage," etc.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 34538


Wow! I want that suit! :happy:


----------



## Flanderian

The real '50's: Milton Berle and a bottle of Schlitz! :devil:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Good one

⇩ What I like about this one (besides the cute house model) is the woman's outfit (other than the hat), as its simple lines look classic enough that I could see a woman wearing it today (sans the gloves, but with the awesome red pocketbook). 
).


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Good one
> 
> ⇩ What I like about this one (besides the cute house model) is the woman's outfit (other than the hat), as its simple lines look classic enough that I could see a woman wearing it today (sans the gloves, but with the awesome red pocketbook).
> ).
> View attachment 34589


Agreed, but the kidskin gloves add a hint of mystery, suggest potential danger and, may I say, introduce a certain element of allure to her outfit, rig...or whatever we call a gal's getup for the day?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Agreed, but the kidskin gloves add a hint of mystery, suggest potential danger and, may I say, introduce a certain element of allure to her outfit, rig...or whatever we call a gal's getup for the day?


I love the glove look.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Good one
> 
> ⇩ What I like about this one (besides the cute house model) is the woman's outfit (other than the hat), as its simple lines look classic enough that I could see a woman wearing it today (sans the gloves, but with the awesome red pocketbook).
> ).
> View attachment 34589


Great ad! Great illustration!


----------



## Fading Fast

The always popular HS&M:








I'm thinking his outfit could have come right out of Flanderian's closet (the shirt for super sure).


----------



## Flanderian

I actually do have a very similar suit my tailor made for me from Wain Schiell cloth. (Though, unaccountably, it's shrunken a good deal in the intervening years! ) And a number of shirts my shirtmakers made with an ecru body and white collars and cuffs. (Ecru being a good deal lighter than this lovely yellow.)

Yes, you've got my style pegged rather well. Though the ad's subject is more reminiscent of a me from 25 or 30 years ago. 😭


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 34686


Somebody *has* been peeking in my closet! 

I've got a tan/taupe corduroy jacket with suede elbow patches. Now if I could only borrow this gent's youth for a bit!? :devil:

Thank you! Wonderful, charming art.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> ... Now if I could only borrow this gent's youth for a bit!? :devil:
> ...


I believe you just wrote the plot line for a "The Twilight Zone" episode.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I believe you just wrote the plot line for a "The Twilight Zone" episode.


I'll borrow his gal too, while I'm about it!


----------



## Fading Fast

Here's what time does to your mind.

I'm not sure if I remember Alligator as a brand form the '80s when I first started buying real clothes or I "remember" it because of all the years I've spent reading about clothes from the Ivy era.

I think I encountered it early in my cloth-buying history, but am not sure.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 34720
> 
> Here's what time does to your mind.
> 
> I'm not sure if I remember Alligator as a brand form the '80s when I first started buying real clothes or I "remember" it because of all the years I've spent reading about clothes from the Ivy era.
> 
> I think I encountered it early in my cloth-buying history, but am not sure.


Great ad and illustration.

Alligator was around for a long time: Esquire, September 1934 -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ quite the bold illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ quite the bold illustration.


It is! Would you buy one for $5.50? 

They used this art style through most of the '30's.


----------



## Fading Fast

From the ad's text:

"...fabrics average 22% cooler,* by independent tests, than any of 22 other suitings..."​
Seems funny that both the percentage and the number of other suits tested is 22 - right?

Makes me suspicious that some market survey or something didn't say that the number "22" is pleasing or something like that.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 34765
> 
> From the ad's text:
> 
> "...fabrics average 22% cooler,* by independent tests, than any of 22 other suitings..."​
> Seems funny that both the percentage and the number of other suits tested is 22 - right?
> 
> Makes me suspicious that some market survey or something didn't say that the number "22" is pleasing or something like that.


Thanks, that's a great ad and very lovely illustration.

I suspect your skepticism is well placed. Of as great of significance as more doctors recommending Camel Cigarettes as a boon to good health. 

But throughout my childhood, Palm Beach brand clothing was the acknowledged gold standard among makers of summer suits. As I've uncovered more of their vintage ads, I encountered constant reference to Palm Beach Cloth, not just as any cloth used in making their suits, but as cloth with special properties desirable for wear in hot weather. Not only is it mentioned in ads, but it's also used in the text descriptions accompanying a number of Esquire fashion plates.

Some harum scarum Internet investigation left me with the understanding that the cloth is proprietary to the Palm Beach brand, and over the years has been constituted of a variety of blends, most prominently featuring rayon.

The best single source for information about this cloth I've uncovered is this Fedora Lounge post from 2013 -

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-fedora-lounge-guide-to-palm-beach-cloth.72054/


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Good link - certainly sounds informed and as if that's the real story.


----------



## Fading Fast

Only note on either picture was Burberry


----------



## Fading Fast

And here's a fun Sunday bonus pic:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Only note on either picture was Burberry
> View attachment 34793
> View attachment 34794


That's some of the finest ad art I've ever seen. Truly lovely!



Fading Fast said:


> And here's a fun Sunday bonus pic:
> View attachment 34795


Cool ad!

:beer:


----------



## Flanderian

Labeled as 1950, I don't know, I'd wear pretty much all of it as is.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I particularly like the suit on the man at the far right. Reminds me of a few suits our esteemed member @upr_crust wears.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm sure I'm stealing one from Flanderian's "Vintage Esquire" thread, but both outfits just look so nice - the combinations and fit are wonderful - that I couldn't resist. 








One place I worked had a pretty dressed-up version of biz-casual Friday, so I'd sometimes wear a tie with a cardigan and dress trousers.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 34720
> 
> Here's what time does to your mind.
> 
> I'm not sure if I remember Alligator as a brand form the '80s when I first started buying real clothes or I "remember" it because of all the years I've spent reading about clothes from the Ivy era.
> 
> I think I encountered it early in my cloth-buying history, but am not sure.


For what it's worth, we had a 5 to 6 foot alligator waving goodbye to residents of our subdivision going off to work this morning! Well made for sure, but I wouldn't want to drape him over my shoulders! :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> For what it's worth, we had a 5 to 6 foot alligator waving goodbye to residents of our subdivision going off to work this morning! Well made for sure, but I wouldn't want to drape him over my shoulders! :crazy:


That and the bugs are why I never want to live in FLA. I've visited many times and have enjoyed it a lot, but there are too many things crawling around for me to make it a permanent home.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I particularly like the suit on the man at the far right. Reminds me of a few suits our esteemed member @upr_crust wears.


Good cloth with a discreet overcheck is very handsome and rich looking!



Fading Fast said:


> I'm sure I'm stealing one from Flanderian's "Vintage Esquire" thread, but both outfits just look so nice - the combinations and fit are wonderful - that I couldn't resist.
> View attachment 34855
> 
> One place I worked had a pretty dressed-up version of biz-casual Friday, so I'd sometimes wear a tie with a cardigan and dress trousers.


A good cardigan with dress trousers and the right tie is a terrific ensemble, that flatters most men when done right.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> For what it's worth, we had a 5 to 6 foot alligator waving goodbye to residents of our subdivision going off to work this morning! Well made for sure, but I wouldn't want to drape him over my shoulders! :crazy:


Ever tried deep-fried alligator? Have heard it's supposed to be good. One year while visiting Pacific Grove on the Monterey peninsula a restaurant we visited had alligator on the menu. But considering the locale, I'm sure it must have been frozen. Now, deep-fried Sea Otter!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Oddly, I've never eaten alligator here in Florida, but eat several servings of deep fried gator every time we go to Louisiana each January. Deep fried gator and Oysters on the half shell...Yum!! The diet of champions....or perhaps overweight old men!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Oddly, I've never eaten alligator here in Florida, but eat several servings of deep fried gator every time we go to Louisiana each January. Deep fried gator and Oysters on the half shell...Yum!! The diet of champions....or perhaps overweight old men!


Perhaps, you don't want to p*ss the gators off in your home state - not a bad strategy.


----------



## Fading Fast

Proving that everything happened before - note the advertising hook to college kids:

"No Pleats / Natural Slim Lines."​
To that point, isn't it time belted-back pants had a comeback?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Proving that everything happened before - note the advertising hook to college kids:
> 
> "No Pleats / Natural Slim Lines."​
> To that point, isn't it time belted-back pants had a comeback?
> View attachment 34893


Great ad and illustration!

And very true that it's all happened before, the greatest difference being that all attempts at grace and nuance have been replaced with "I don't know any better!"


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great ad and illustration!
> 
> And very true that it's all happened before, the greatest difference being that all attempts at grace and nuance have been replaced with "I don't know any better!"


Nice.

And it doesn't seem that the rise was ever shortened this much or at all. I haven't read much historical about or seen much evidence of the rise moving up or down - did it?


----------



## ran23

I was lucky to have a southern Restaurant here in the PNW for a while. First time to try alligator. Surprised the mashed potatoes taste just like KFC.


----------



## London380sl

Interesting they were arguing about pleats even back then.


----------



## Fading Fast

More rainwear.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> More rainwear.
> View attachment 34938


Cool!


----------



## Flanderian

Slightly later, '62, but the Trad era was roughly '56 - '66 -


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> More rainwear.
> View attachment 34938


Wow! I didn't realize that they sold full length raincoats, but I've been a satisfied customer for years. The three Baracuta's I've purchased were all of the G9 design, in different hues. Great windbreakers!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Slightly later, '62, but the Trad era was roughly '56 - '66 -
> 
> View attachment 34947


There's a lot of good stuff going on here - her lean possibly being the best.


----------



## Fading Fast

Very '40s "big."


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Very '40s "big."
> View attachment 34970


A truly classic illustration on so many levels! There was a time when Sears, Roebuckand Co. was at one time the only retailer most of us would ever need. I remember waiting almost breathlessly for the delivery of the next Sears, Roebuck Big Book and particularly their Christmas Catalogue!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A truly classic illustration on so many levels! There was a time when Sears, Roebuckand Co. was at one time the only retailer most of us would ever need. I remember waiting almost breathlessly for the delivery of the next Sears, Roebuck Big Book and particularly their Christmas Catalogue!


It's funny, growing up, my mom took me to Robert Hall (an early discount warehouse chain) and an Army-Navy store for clothes, but even though we shopped regularly in Sears, we rarely bought clothes there. I asked her recently why, but at 86, she just grumbled a "I don't know" answer (which is what she does now to anything that doesn't interest her  ).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> There's a lot of good stuff going on here - her lean possibly being the best.


I remember the royal blue DB cardigan at the center. Very big in the early '60's and not a bad looking garment. (Absent the dumb-*ss sewn on patch!) Wouldn't mind a navy Merino version with a shawl collar now.



eagle2250 said:


> A truly classic illustration on so many levels! There was a time when Sears, Roebuckand Co. was at one time the only retailer most of us would ever need. I remember waiting almost breathlessly for the delivery of the next Sears, Roebuck Big Book and particularly their Christmas Catalogue!


We were "Monkey" Ward guys!



Fading Fast said:


> It's funny, growing up, my mom took me to Robert Hall (an early discount warehouse chain) and an Army-Navy store for clothes, but even though we shopped regularly in Sears, we rarely bought clothes there. I asked her recently why, but at 86, she just grumbled a "I don't know" answer (which is what she does now to anything that doesn't interest her  ).


Gosh, it must have been in _The New Jersey Housewive's Manual,_ or something! I was a Robert Hall victim as well. Literal pipe racks on a concrete floor under bright florescent tubes. Made everyone look green. The original definition of "no frills." We'd be over at $19.99 rack, and I'd start sidling over to the $29.99 rack before Ma steered me back. The irony is that in terms of cloth and amount of work that went into many of those cheap suits, they were actually superior to some costing multiples today. They were intended for regular, hard wear, and many delivered it. And irony of ironies, the huckster who fitted you actually knew when a collar needed to lowered (All of mine,) and they had tailors who did it perfectly.

Our neighborhood was too poor to have an Army Navy store. We had Blums!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> ...
> Gosh, it must have been in _The New Jersey Housewive's Manual,_ or something! I was a Robert Hall victim as well. Literal pipe racks on a concrete floor under bright florescent tubes. Made everyone look green. The original definition of "no frills." We'd be over at $19.99 rack, and I'd start sidling over to the $29.99 rack before Ma steered me back. The irony is that in terms of cloth and amount of work that went into many of those cheap suits, they were actually superior to some costing multiples today. They were intended for regular, hard wear, and many delivered it. And irony or ironies, the huckster who fitted you actually knew when a collar needed to lowered (All of mine,) and they had tailors who did it perfectly.
> 
> Our neighborhood was too poor to have an Army Navy store. We had Blums!


Ah, Robert Hall, the fond memories. To this day, a small part of me still feels like I'm wasting money if the store I'm shopping for clothes in doesn't look like a warehouse from the set of "Miami Vice."

The Army-Navy store where I got my $10.99 Pro-Keds or Converses (I could have either as long as I chose the cheaper one  ), sweat shirts, jeans, etc. was in NewBrunswick NJ which was (the kindest word I can think of to follow) a dump and the store's stuff was dirt cheap (or we wouldn't have been there - and I was only allowed to look at certain things, like the 19.99 rack you spoke off at RH).

I know that Army-Navy stores have this reputation as being expensive, but that just wasn't the case in the one I went to all the time growing up. As noted, to be sure, I was steered to the sales tables (bought my 1st pair of Herman workbooks there, when they were the "thing" for high school kids and the AN store had, by far, the best price).

Great memories, better as memories than when they were happening.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## FiscalDean

Flanderian said:


> The irony is that in terms of cloth and amount of work that went into many of those cheap suits, they were actually superior to some costing multiples today. They were intended for regular, hard wear, and many delivered it. And irony or ironies, the huckster who fitted you actually knew when a collar needed to lowered (All of mine,) and they had tailors who did it perfectly.
> 
> As I recall, my first suit was from Robert Hall. It really was fairly decent and it had good natural shoulders.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35028


That is a really fine illustration. Beautifully expressive and evocative, and pretty much spot on. Looks like the suburban high school version from the same vintage as my dance band class. Why was I taking a dance band class? Beats me! I couldn't really play the B-flat trumpet. But then neither could most of the other kids in our class play their instruments. Our instructor was an actual musician who worked, and this was just his day job. It paid some bills and got him benefits. He was a nice guy, but as hard as he tried, he couldn't conceal his revulsion of our ineptitude. In that one semester we were only ever able to perform one piece competently; a swing version of Gershwin's _Embraceable You! _I played 2nd trumpet, and though it sounded pretty good. Though we thought it was hopelessly square at the time, it really is a lovely melody.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35028


How typical! Young men never seem to properly appreciate advice from their Fathers/Grandfathers...or perhaps contempoary tastes in music have changed? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> How typical! Young men never seem to properly appreciate advice from their Fathers/Grandfathers...or perhaps contempoary tastes in music have changed? LOL.


My dad and I were not close or insanely far apart, we just were - not really cut out for each other, but you don't choose your family, so we marched on.

With that as background, he played big band and '50s crooners (Sinatra, Nat King Cole, etc.) when I was growing up and I loved them then and now.

But, also, I loved the current rock music of my youth - something dad did not get at all.

I listen to a lot of music today and try to keep an open mind - I like many of the new songs, but few of the new groups mean that much to me. However, it's the music of my youth - incongruously - big bands, crooners and classic rock that truly, um, sings to me.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35080


Great illustration, and so evocative of the period!

The gentleman having his jacket off reminds me how unkind the 1 1/4" tie was to those less svelte. Took me many decades to understand why a guy who was square built with large chest looked farcical in those!


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration, and so evocative of the period!
> 
> The gentleman having his jacket off reminds me how unkind the 1 1/4" tie was to those less svelte. Took me many decades to understand why a guy who was square built with large chest looked farcical in those!
> 
> View attachment 35093


:icon_scratch::icon_scratch::icon_scratch: Pictorial proof, perhaps, that those legendary Trench coats last forever...yes, no?


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> :icon_scratch::icon_scratch::icon_scratch: Pictorial proof, perhaps, that those legendary Trench coats last forever...yes, no?


Referencing my reaction to the 1 1/4" ties of the late '50's to mid '60's.

The gentleman above is _Weary Willie_ as brought to life by the late, great Emmitt Kelly! 👍


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The picture reminded me of the late, great Red Skelton's Clem Kadiddlehopper. We need to bring back those old smal screen comedies!


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple more from the Pepsi series:















At least in these two (and the previous one), I've noticed that Pepsi clearly positioned the woman in front. It's just fun to be aware of the advertising strategy when you see several of the ads from a series together.


----------



## Peak and Pine

_This is a f***ed up post. Don't ask. The first part belongs in the 50s ad thread_, _and the second am not sure, written based on something Eagle said about Red Skelton somewhere._

^.

This is the famous Pepsi ad known to us lovers of the macabre as _The one where the artist croaked before he could finish the guy's leg._



eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The picture reminded me of the late, great Red Skelton's Clem Kadiddlehopper. We need to bring back those old smal screen comedies!


Get a subscription to Sirius/XM satellite radio. Punch up channel 148, Classic Radio. Red Skelton and Jack Benny radio shows on a lot. It's harder to be funny on radio than tee vee, just as it's harder to be funny in writing than in person. (I know about this, as many here will disgustedly testify.) Benny on radio is phenominal. As is Phil Harris. And_ the Bickersons. _Some are less so, tho cute, Our Miss Brooks with the incomparable Eve Arden. Duffy's Tavern is quite good with a good premise. Some famous ones are flat out obnoxious, Fibber Magee, Gildersleeve. But well worth the $12 a month, plus Doctor Radio, every MLB game anywhere, audio to all the cable news shows and a zillion music channels. So you can hear your two favorites, Imagine Dragons and Dr. Laura 'round the clock.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A couple more from the Pepsi series:
> View attachment 35113
> View attachment 35114
> 
> At least in these two (and the previous one), I've noticed that Pepsi clearly positioned the woman in front. It's just fun to be aware of the advertising strategy when you see several of the ads from a series together.


Beautiful!


----------



## Flanderian

Brooks of yore?


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 35117
> 
> 
> Brooks of yore?


Can't get much more classic than navy blazer, red-and-blue rep tie and white shirt with collar pin.


----------



## Fading Fast

A few more from the Pepsi series with the woman still in front:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
All my life I have preferred Coca Cola over Pepsi, but as depicted in those illustrations in the post above, clearly I have been wrong. My social opportunities would have been improved if my drink of preference had been Pepsi! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> All my life I have preferred Coca Cola over Pepsi, but as depicted in those illustrations in the post above, clearly I have been wrong. My social opportunities would have been improved if my drink of preference had been Pepsi! LOL.


Oh dear God, those super-fantastic people in the Pepsi ads would never have have anything to do with me. Women like the one in the red top/shorts/socks walk right through me.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> All my life I have preferred Coca Cola over Pepsi, but as depicted in those illustrations in the post above, clearly I have been wrong. My social opportunities would have been improved if my drink of preference had been Pepsi! LOL.





Fading Fast said:


> Oh dear God, those super-fantastic people in the Pepsi ads would never have have anything to do with me. Women like the one in the red top/shorts/socks walk right through me.


I find the young lady bowler most fetching! My kindergarten teacher wore pleated tartan skirts, (All be it long ones.) and for the rest of my life I've been fond of them. 😏


----------



## Fading Fast

More fun with Pepsi
















In the top pic, is the gentleman wearing an ascot?

In the bottom pic, no comment.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> More fun with Pepsi
> View attachment 35156
> View attachment 35157
> 
> 
> In the top pic, is the gentleman wearing an ascot?
> 
> In the bottom pic, no comment.


Good lawd, do my eyes deceive me or is she showing him her little.....ah, ah, ah....horderves? Yea, that's the ticket, her horderve! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Good lawd, do my eyes deceive me or is she showing him her little.....ah, ah, ah....horderves? Yea, that's the ticket, her horderve! LOL.


Hence, my "no comment." There's a lot of little things (tee-tee) going on in that illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Hence, my "no comment." There's a lot of little things (tee-tee) going on in that illustration.


Tsk! Tsk!


----------



## Fading Fast

Let's take a break from Pepsi for a day:


----------



## eagle2250

^^ Hmmm.....
add close to a foot to the waist measurement, change the hair to essentially a snow white hue, and put those specs on the face just to be able to read what he's looking at on that yellow sheet of paper...and I'll bet she wouldn't look nearly so interested in the gentleman pictured!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^ Hmmm.....
> add close to a foot to the waist measurement, change the hair to essentially a snow white hue, and put those specs on the face just to be able to read what he's looking at on that yellow sheet of paper...and I'll bet she wouldn't look nearly so interested in the gentleman pictured!


As my girlfriend and I say all the time - those (people in ads, TV, movies, etc.) are just "TV/Hollywood" people, not actual people in the real world.

But nobody ever exposed the myth better than Cary Grant:

"Everyone wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant."​


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Let's take a break from Pepsi for a day:
> View attachment 35185


*N-I-C-E!!*


----------



## Fading Fast

The executives at Coke called me up to complain I was shilling for Pepsi, so


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> The executives at Coke called me up to complain I was shilling for Pepsi, so
> View attachment 35238


Moleskin cap & an MGA! :happy:


----------



## Fading Fast

And Pepsi wanted a say again:















Good job by the artist in illustrating a tab collar for the man in the bottom ad.


----------



## poppies

I'm delighted every time this thread receives an addition. These illustrations seem almost otherworldly in the context of the current environment. There's a beautiful latent optimism present in almost all the examples.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> And Pepsi wanted a say again:
> View attachment 35300
> View attachment 35301
> 
> Good job by the artist in illustrating a tab collar for the man in the bottom ad.


The Pepsi ads, really good. (Pepsi, not so.) The pair with the hibatchi on the beach, very evocative of duo parties near the waves here in younger days. Don 't think we brought the welder's gloves tho.


----------



## Peak and Pine

The second ad is from the days when Pepsi also owned Chia Pet.


----------



## Fading Fast

poppies said:


> I'm delighted every time this thread receives an addition. These illustrations seem almost otherworldly in the context of the current environment. There's a beautiful latent optimism present in almost all the examples.


Knowing that every word I want to say would quickly get me bumped to the interchange, I'll just say that advertising reflects the zeitgeist of its era.



Peak and Pine said:


> The Pepsi ads, really good. (Pepsi, not so.) The pair with the hibatchi on the beach, very evocative of duo parties near the waves here in younger days. Don 't think we brought the welder's gloves tho.


I wonder if the glove was an early example of "legal guidance" to avoid potential litigation.

I thought the woman was particularly well drawn as I've seen women sit that way and their bodies curve in just that manner - kudos to the artist as he or she captured that well.



Peak and Pine said:


> The second ad is from the days when Pepsi also owned Chia Pet.


I had a similar thought about the hat, but mine was simply WTF.


----------



## cmoore

It's an exmas outfit. She's being whimsical with the fur lined top and a christmas tree hat. 

I bet this was the precursor to an ugly sweater party.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And Pepsi wanted a say again:
> View attachment 35300
> View attachment 35301
> 
> Good job by the artist in illustrating a tab collar for the man in the bottom ad.


For years we have purchased cases of Diet Coke each moth on our Commissary run, but largely due your recent series of illustrations, yesterday our cola choice was a case of Diet Pepsi. Strangely, it tastes a tad more refreshing. Alas, it seems we may have one more thread of evidence that I may be going nuts! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> For years we have purchased cases of Diet Coke each moth on our Commissary run, but largely due your recent series of illustrations, yesterday our cola choice was a case of Diet Pepsi. Strangely, it tastes a tad more refreshing. Alas, it seems we may have one more thread of evidence that I may be going nuts! LOL.


Great story. Also, it illustrates how effective good advertising can be.

Because of your story, let's go with these for today's illustrations:

















I guess you and Mrs. Eagle are now some of the modern "Sociables."


----------



## Peak and Pine

The following remembrance will be wildly entertaining to me only, but I'm sharing it anyway. And until the above Pepsi ads, hadn't thought of this in decades, this being the term _sociables _as used by me and my little buddies back in the early 60s, for this was a giant ad campaign on radio and tv as well. Cynical us realized even then that life among Earth people wasn't quite as unfetteredly glorious as these ads depicted, the people not as high spirited and beautiful with a cool Pepsi always at the ready, ready to be swilled in between bursts of romance and gaiety. So we would apply _Sociables _to the random fat-oozing families we would see waddling down Congress street with the screaming snot dripping toddlers in tow. A Sociable sighting was a rarity in Maine in those days and would provide chuckable fodder for days to come. Not so now unfortunately. The rarity part. See, we really were awful, WASPy no-counts back in those days, big slices of which will always linger.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Great story. Also, it illustrates how effective good advertising can be.
> 
> Because of your story, let's go with these for today's illustrations:
> 
> View attachment 35340
> View attachment 35342
> 
> 
> I guess you and Mrs. Eagle are now some of the modern "Sociables."


That top illustration even makes white crew socks look good!

:beer:


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> That top illustration even makes white crew socks look good!
> 
> :beer:


Until they weren't, white socks with pennies were very cool.

What exactly is she wearing though? A cape or wrap of some sort? With her arm not in it, I can't really figure out what it is.

My call: the one you want to chat up is the girl in the blue dress out with her parents - she wants in on the social activities of her generation and to not be stuck listening to her parents complain about how much the gardener is charging them this year.


----------



## Fading Fast

The coat at left is described as having raglan shoulders, but they look set-in to me not raglan - thoughts?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I agree with your assessment, rather than the words in the caption describing the illustration in question.


----------



## New Old Stock

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35359
> 
> The coat at left is described as having raglan shoulders, but they look set-in to me not raglan - thoughts?


I believe we're only seeing half the illustration - perhaps the gentlemen is talking to a raglan-shouldered friend.


----------



## Fading Fast

New Old Stock said:


> I believe we're only seeing half the illustration - perhaps the gentlemen is talking to a raglan-shouldered friend.


Now that you pointed it out - it looks quite obvious. I'm sure that you hit on the answer. Thank you.


----------



## Fading Fast

I know it's a plate of hors d'oeuvre she's holding out, but if you look quickly, it almost looks like a pizza with a bunch of toppings. That's it, that's my stupid observation for the day.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35395
> 
> I know it's a plate of hors d'oeuvre she's holding out, but if you look quickly, it almost looks like a pizza with a bunch of toppings. That's it, that's my stupid observation for the day.


I on the other hand look at that illustration and find myself reflecting on what may have been that iconic animated character, Popeye's, eventual domestic fate. Is the hostess pictured a middle aged Olive Oil? Bleah! Now how's that for my "stupid observation of the day?" LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
After getting hooked on Burberry's, I never had the opportunity to take a walk in the rain in a Grenfell. The illustration above causes me to wonder if I should have perhaps taken the time to test wear a Grenfell. Smart looking designs, for sure!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> After getting hooked on Burberry's, I never had the opportunity to take a walk in the rain in a Grenfell. The illustration above causes me to wonder if I should have perhaps taken the time to test wear a Grenfell. Smart looking designs, for sure!


It's funny, today, when it rains you see, mainly, two types of clothing. Rain gear that looks like the person could be out sailing or hiking in the woods (even though they are on the streets of NYC) or people not dressing for the rain and, maybe, using an umbrella.

Back in the day, and the picture evidence supports this, close to 80% of men would be wearing a rain coat in NYC on a rainy day. It's funny to see now as it almost looks like an army .

I get the sailing / hiking clothes - they work, heck, I've worn similar stuff as it's effective and easy to throw on. What I don't get is why so many people opt to just get wet.

The same with shoes. Back in the day, when it rained, 80% of the men would have rubbers on their shoes - the coat room's floor at work would be full of them. Now, people either wear rainproof hiking-type boots (not always pretty, but it makes sense) or their regular shoes/boots and just have wet feet for the day. I don't get the latter.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> It's funny, today, when it rains you see, mainly, two types of clothing. Rain gear that looks like the person could be out sailing or hiking in the woods (even though they are on the streets of NYC) or people not dressing for the rain and, maybe, using an umbrella.
> 
> Back in the day, and the picture evidence supports this, close to 80% of men would be wearing a rain coat in NYC on a rainy day. It's funny to see now as it almost looks like an army .
> 
> I get the sailing / hiking clothes - they work, heck, I've worn similar stuff as it's effective and easy to throw on. What I don't get is why so many people opt to just get wet.
> 
> The same with shoes. Back in the day, when it rained, 80% of the men would have rubbers on their shoes - the coat room's floor at work would be full of them. Now, people either wear rainproof hiking-type boots (not always pretty, but it makes sense) or their regular shoes/boots and just have wet feet for the day. I don't get the latter.


While working as a civilian in downtown Chicago, I always had a pair of Tote's Rubbers in a small plastic bag, secreted in my briefcase. When an unexpected rainstorm came upon us, the Totes came out and protected my beloved shoes. I could never understand and still cannot understand how personal vanity convinces gentlemen to allow torrential downpours to severely damage or ruin our old friends!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> While working as a civilian in downtown Chicago, I always had a pair of Tote's Rubbers in a small plastic bag, secreted in my briefcase. When an unexpected rainstorm came upon us, the Totes came out and protected my beloved shoes. I could never understand and still cannot understand how personal vanity convinces gentlemen to allow torrential downpours to severely damage or ruin our old friends!


Do you remember the rubbers that only covered the bottom of the shoe (they, effectively, snapped over the sole)? The idea was that on days when the ground was wet, but when it was not raining, you could protect your soles. That was one step too far in the field of caution for me, but I remember a few guys had them.


----------



## Fading Fast

Don't remember if we had this one back when we did a run of Austin Reed illustrations.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> Do you remember the rubbers that only covered the bottom of the shoe (they, effectively, snapped over the sole)?


And stilts. Do you remember when we'd keep a pair of foldable stilts in the briefcase for fording creeks and small streams? Though maybe that was just here in Maine.


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> And stilts. Do you remember when we'd keep a pair of foldable stilts in the briefcase for fording creeks and small streams? Though maybe that was just here in Maine.


I'm not kidding about the rubbers that just covered the soles - they were a real thing. As noted, one step too far for me, but I saw guys do it.

What's amazing is how quickly the rubbers-for-your-shoes thing collapsed. Mine was the transition generation.

I started working in a real biz environment out of college at the age of 21 in '85. All the guys older than me wore them. As noted, on rainy days, they were all over the coat room's floor.

About half of my generation wore them and almost none of the generation that came after me wore them. Now, I never, ever see them.

Some businesses must have taken quite a hit with the loss of that market. Tingley was the brand name I remember, pretty much, every store carrying. I just checked, they are still around:

https://www.tingleyrubber.com/colle...MInJC-vt_95AIVQsDICh0txQuNEAAYAiAAEgJcV_D_BwE


----------



## williamson

Fading Fast said:


> It's funny, today, when it rains you see, mainly, two types of clothing. Rain gear that looks like the person could be out sailing or hiking in the woods (even though they are on the streets of NYC) or people not dressing for the rain and, maybe, using an umbrella.


One often sees people wearing short (jacket-length) waterproof coats (perhaps Barbours) in the rain, with the result that the clothes on the lower half of the body become twice as wet from rain run-off. This hybrid style of dressing - neither complete outdoor pursuits gear nor complete "traditional clothing" - is actually less practical than each "parent" style.


> I get the sailing / hiking clothes - they work, heck, I've worn similar stuff as it's effective and easy to throw on. What I don't get is why so many people opt to just get wet.


And sit in their workplace steaming off!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I'm not kidding about the rubbers that just covered the soles - they were a real thing. As noted, one step too far for me, but I saw guys do it.
> 
> What's amazing is how quickly the rubbers-for-your-shoes thing collapsed. Mine was the transition generation.
> 
> I started working in a real biz environment out of college at the age of 21 in '85. All the guys older than me wore them. As noted, on rainy days, they were all over the coat room's floor.
> 
> About half of my generation wore them and almost none of the generation that came after me wore them. Now, I never, ever see them.
> 
> Some businesses must have taken quite a hit with the loss of that market. Tingley was the brand name I remember, pretty much, every store carrying. I just checked, they are still around:
> 
> https://www.tingleyrubber.com/colle...MInJC-vt_95AIVQsDICh0txQuNEAAYAiAAEgJcV_D_BwE


I remember them selling those rubbers that protected not much more than the soles of one's shoes, Though I never bought a pair. The rubbers I carried in my briefcase fully covered the shoe, to include virtually the entire vamp. The Totes I carried for emergency wear were noticeably more lightly constructed than the pair of Tingley's that were kept by the door going into our garage and had to endure more frequent, longer periods of wear.


----------



## bcminiatures

Love threads like this. Is it possible that "back in the day" guys were spending more time outdoors -perhaps waiting for buses or walking, that their exposure time in the rain was greater (and hence the need for protection)? I have no idea. Just curious. I have an odd job where I can easily walk 4-6 miles per day, but will be wearing suits or sport-coats due to my clients\customers. I have to say, the number of times I've been caught in a downpour that endangers my shoes - has been perhaps quite low. I tend to look at the rain probability for the day and make my shoe selection on that. So perhaps another theory: the cost of shoes has dropped to the point that average guys just don't get that worked up about it, or have "beaters" that they can use? Again - no idea. Just speculating.


----------



## FiscalDean

IMHO, rain isn't as much of a problem as snow. I don't really see the necessity in rain since I don't have too far to walk from my car to the office. However, I do own two pair of Tingley's; one for everyday wear in winter (low cut) and a high cut pair for days when the parking lot has yet to be cleared of the snow.


----------



## Fading Fast

bcminiatures said:


> Love threads like this. Is it possible that "back in the day" guys were spending more time outdoors -perhaps waiting for buses or walking, that their exposure time in the rain was greater (and hence the need for protection)? I have no idea. Just curious. I have an odd job where I can easily walk 4-6 miles per day, but will be wearing suits or sport-coats due to my clients\customers. I have to say, the number of times I've been caught in a downpour that endangers my shoes - has been perhaps quite low. I tend to look at the rain probability for the day and make my shoe selection on that. So perhaps another theory: the cost of shoes has dropped to the point that average guys just don't get that worked up about it, or have "beaters" that they can use? Again - no idea. Just speculating.


Only speaking for NYC where I've lived and worked since the '80s (with a few years spent in Boston), this is a walking city. Few own cars and even those who do rarely use them to go to work day to day (parking makes that all but impossible).

So, most walk or take a bus or subway, which usually requires, at minimum, a few blocks of walking - and often much more. In the '80s, the majority of men going to offices wore rubbers over their dress shoes on rainy days, but today you see men wearing suits with hiking boots, sneakers or dress shoes. The first makes sense for keeping your feet and dress shoes dry; the second keeps your dress shoes dry but not your feet; the third seems a really bad idea, but I see it all the time.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## poppies

bcminiatures said:


> So perhaps another theory: the cost of shoes has dropped to the point that average guys just don't get that worked up about it, or have "beaters" that they can use? Again - no idea. Just speculating.


This was my first thought. I think there's a general lack of investment in high quality, aesthetically considered clothing in our current epoch, and this is one of the effects.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35485


No insult intended towards Mrs Eagle, but my dishwasher has a face that looks like a clean sheet of stainless steel! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> No insult intended towards Mrs Eagle, but my dishwasher has a face that looks like a clean sheet of stainless steel! LOL.


Living in NYC, where space is at a premium and it's just the two of us, we opted for no mechanical dishwasher and instead employ the team of Fading Fast and Girlfriend to wash all dishes.

We had one in a prior apartment and, since we don't like to leave dirty dishes in it overnight, we either had to run it wastefully with a small load or just do them by hand ourselves. Also, the pre-rinse, load, load soap, unload and, occasionally, clean & wipe down dishwasher argued that - as just two people - we weren't really saving any time / effort anyway.

But when we wash dishes, we are definitely dressed less formally than Mr. and Mrs. Perfect.


----------



## Fading Fast

As noted in another thread, it's the first full-on fall day in NYC, 48F right now. Thought this captured the vibe nicely:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> As noted in another thread, it's the first full-on fall day in NYC, 48F right now. Thought this captured the vibe nicely:
> 
> View attachment 35499


Facing a predicted high temp of 91 degrees today, I am so envious! Also, a perfect illustration for today...the image gives me hope.


----------



## Fading Fast

Looks more like a pic than illustration, but otherwise feels so right for this thread:








Love the description of the jacket's details.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hard to see how those two styles made it into the same illustration, but there they are.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Is that part of a poster captioned _Don't take candy from these men_? Jeezus, where did you get that?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35543
> 
> Hard to see how those two styles made it into the same illustration, but there they are.


While the suit may be somewhat out of date, the Eisenhower Jacket design, paired with the chinos appeals to me.


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> 
> Is that part of a poster captioned _Don't take candy from these men_? Jeezus, where did you get that?


🤷‍♂️



eagle2250 said:


> While the suit may be somewhat out of date, the Eisenhower Jacket design, paired with the chinos appeals to me.


Agreed - iconic Ike jacket. Very cool that he pushed for it.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Feeling better now, after the nightmare of yesterday's posting. The one above, lots of goodish, a favorite kind of illustration (of which there must be a name, but don't know what it is) where after the drawing is finished and the color filled in, every feature, an arm, a crease, everything is outlined in black marker or brush.


----------



## Fading Fast

Do you think those are grey dress trousers he's wearing? If so, just another example of something I think should come back from the IVY era: the regular wearing of grey dress trousers almost like they were chinos.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ No thoughts on his trousers?

⇩ I have no background on this one.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35602
> 
> 
> Do you think those are grey dress trousers he's wearing? If so, just another example of something I think should come back from the IVY era: the regular wearing of grey dress trousers almost like they were chinos.


I too recall wearing wool gabs as almost everyday wear and with a few chinos mixed in for a bit of variety, way back in the day. Chino design options were a whole lot more limited in the 1960's and 1970's, but that sad fact has changed considerable these days. Good fits/looks, lower purchase and maintenance costs and just pure wearing comfort and convenience of today's chinos has pretty much eliminated my need for wool gabs as everyday wear!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I too recall wearing wool gabs as almost everyday wear and with a few chinos mixed in for a bit of variety, way back in the day. Chino design options were a whole lot more limited in the 1960's and 1970's, but that sad fact has changed considerable these days. Good fits/looks, lower purchase and maintenance costs and just pure wearing comfort and convenience of today's chinos has pretty much eliminated my need for wool gabs as everyday wear!


My corporate "casual" pants were grey flannels, lighter-weight-grey dress pants or dress chinos.

I really liked wearing grey flannels, but as you note, chinos have eaten that world.

Now, for most of the very few in-person meetings I have, grey flannels would be too dressy as many financial firms are trying to capture a tech-vibe and don't want their "culture" to feel too "Wall St."


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

The brand...Palm Beach Suits is familiar to me, but those wonderful prices are not...$17.75 for a suit of clothes? I wish! LOL.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Fading Fast

Not an illustration, but it's dated from 1968 and possibly represents the last minute of the Ivy era.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Is it the eyes, the pouched lips or some other intangible, yet to be identified, that results in the perfenct Trad pout on the part(s) of both the man and woman in the illustration? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> Not an illustration, but it's dated from 1968 and possibly represents the last minute of the Ivy era.
> View attachment 35679


This guy is buying 69-dollar suits, but is about to take off from his back yard in a one-man personal helicopter? Ralph Lauren's crying foul.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

What I like about this Rockwell, from our perspective, is how the man on the left is wearing several classic American items: khakis, pennies and a buffalo-check shirt. Also, note the white collar on the pink shirt on the gentleman to the right, The guy on the left looks like his clothes are from the '40s or '50s; whereas, the man on the right looks like he last updated his wardrobe in the '20s. The dog's fur looks timeless.


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL....
Alas, I identify with that guy on the left in so many ways: the chapeau to protect the head, neck and ears from the sun; the red and black buffalo check shirt; the chinos and the well worn brown/maroon penny loafers and of course his rather portly stature. Note to self: Write a thank you note to Tilley Endurables for my better looking hat, push that buffalo checked shirt a bit further back in the closet, slap a fresh shine on those penny loafers and get even more righteous about this never ending diet I seem to be on!


----------



## 127.72 MHz

I never tire of Rockwell.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Peak and Pine said:


> This guy is buying 69-dollar suits, but is about to take off from his back yard in a one-man personal helicopter? Ralph Lauren's crying foul.


Now now, he's probably sporting the $89.50 model!


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> What I like about this Rockwell, from our perspective, is how the man on the left is wearing several classic American items: khakis, pennies and a buffalo-check shirt. Also, note the white collar on the pink shirt on the gentleman to the right, The guy on the left looks like his clothes are from the '40s or '50s; whereas, the man on the right looks like he last updated his wardrobe in the '20s. The dog's fur looks timeless.
> View attachment 35730


Eagle and Roycru.


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL. Peak and Pine, you have both a good eye and a great memory. 
I really do miss Roycru's postings...he was a classic, for sure!


----------



## Fading Fast

Any thoughts on what shoes/sneakers he's wearing?


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Nuttin?

We'll try one more dance one ⇩ 








Cuffs were clearly in for men. Also, love the white bucks and saddles.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^
It's interesting to note that the illustration in the post above includes a depiction of the backside of the garments showcased in the illustration. From a marketing perspective, a thoughtful addition, for sure.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> It's interesting to note that the illustration in the post above includes a depiction of the backside of the garments showcased in the illustration. From a marketing perspective, a thoughtful addition, for sure.


It's funny, I've noticed that today there are, in general, much more detailed descriptions of clothing on many clothing companies' sites. They'll talk about the padding in a suit's shoulder, the the lining (I've even seen "half-canvased" mentioned, but forget where now) or some other detail that, up until several years ago, was never mentioned.

My guess, the "I-gent" has put certain things on men's radar. A few years ago, "pic-stitching" was noted a lot, but not so much anymore.

If you go back, as we at AAAC do, and read some of those old Brooks Brothers ads, for example, they were very text heavy and went into meaningful detail about their clothes.

It always good if there's more description, but today's effort does, IMHO, seem to be fashion driven and not, as all of us here would prefer, from a deeper care and understanding about building a classic, long-lasting wardrobe.


----------



## Fading Fast

Late '20s/early '30s is my guess, but a nice illustration also showing the back of the garment. Love its material and love raglan sleeves in an overcoat.


----------



## Fading Fast

A red suit? Looks like a classic Polo over it.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36029


Outstanding...a paint by the numbers, do it yourself illustration! They go a little heavy on the #6 color, whatever that may be. I'm guessing it is brown...yes, no?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 35971
> 
> Late '20s/early '30s is my guess, but a nice illustration also showing the back of the garment. Love its material and love raglan sleeves in an overcoat.





Fading Fast said:


> A red suit? Looks like a classic Polo over it.
> View attachment 36007





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36029


Wow! What a superb batch of illustrations with a keen aesthetic! I've got some catching up to do.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wow! What a superb batch of illustrations with a keen aesthetic! I've got some catching up to do.


Thank you

That red suit is something - right?


----------



## Flanderian

*Ho-ho-ho!!








*


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you
> 
> That red suit is something - right?


I thought it was more of a burnt orange and intended for use during the fall hunting season! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36051


Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it Superman? Marvel's Avengers almost always get that kind of rapt attention from onlookers, upon their arrival, but frankly in the pictured incidence, the onlookers are better and more comfortably dressed! I think I've heard of Jackman Clothing, but do recall ever having experienced on of their garments. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it Superman? Marvel's Avengers almost always get that kind of rapt attention from onlookers, upon their arrival, but frankly in the pictured incidence, the onlookers are better and more comfortably dressed! I think I've heard of Jackman Clothing, but do recall ever having experienced on of their garments. :icon_scratch:


I don't think I had ever heard of them 'till this ad.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36051


A very fine illustration and some great clothes! I'd be delighted to be able to wear much of that, perhaps slightly modified.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it Superman? Marvel's Avengers almost always get that kind of rapt attention from onlookers, upon their arrival, but frankly in the pictured incidence, the onlookers are better and more comfortably dressed! I think I've heard of Jackman Clothing, but do recall ever having experienced on of their garments. :icon_scratch:


Gotta catch the right mood!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Meant to post this with the above pic


----------



## New Old Stock

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36068


Madras ads in black and white... oh the humanity!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Meant to post this with the above pic
> View attachment 36068





New Old Stock said:


> Madras ads in black and white... oh the humanity!


Back in the times when those ads were published, as I recall, everything was in black and white...and I mean everything! Now there is an ever increasing abundance of grey...lots and lots of grey!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36065





Fading Fast said:


> Meant to post this with the above pic
> View attachment 36068


Dreams of summer in our rear view mirror! Very cool!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Back in the times when those ads were published, as I recall, everything was in black and white...and I mean everything! Now there is an ever increasing abundance of grey...lots and lots of grey!


Newspapers - quite possibly where these ads came from - were all black and white until the last twenty or so years. To my eye, newspapers in color still look a bit off.


----------



## Fading Fast

I haven't yet been able to find the other three "fashion" silhouettes.


----------



## New Old Stock

Largest I could find, unfortunately...


----------



## Cantaloop

Fading Fast said:


> Tab-collar shirt, sack suit, macintosh casually draped over one arm and nubile blonde over the other - flying ain't what it used to be.
> View attachment 26864
> 
> N.B. The lining on her raincoat is very cool.


This is such a beautiful illustration. Great detailing on it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cantaloop said:


> This is such a beautiful illustration. Great detailing on it.


Agreed, real thought, effort and talent went into it.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36117


A one time quality retailer, and and a solid maker of trousers! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> A one time quality retailer, and and a solid maker of trousers! 👍


Cool name, but not one I remember ever hearing before.


----------



## eagle2250

I can't help but wonder, if many of us today had been around back in the day, when those illustrations were first published, how much of an impact it would have had on product sales. I think, present day, people are far more inclined to spend on such things. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I can't help but wonder, if many of us today had been around back in the day, when those illustrations were first published, how much of an impact it would have had on product sales. I think, present day, people are far more inclined to spend on such things. :icon_scratch:


I agree, we are a more consumer-oriented economy today. That said, they weren't creating and placing those ads "back then" if the company didn't believe it was driving sales.

Also, since it wasn't the "price transparency," always-on-sale business model we are in today, a company, in those days, had a higher profit margin and, thus, could advertise and sell a smaller number than today and still make a profit.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36143


Ah, poor McGregor. Old reliable, much missed.


----------



## Virtue Aesthetics

Flanderian said:


> Ah, poor McGregor. Old reliable, much missed.


any relation to mcgregor socks?


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Ah, poor McGregor. Old reliable, much missed.


Several of those outfits - or near replicas - made it to "Mad Men." I'd go so far as to wager that this ad was probably one of the show's sources as the outfits were really close.


----------



## Flanderian

Virtue Aesthetics said:


> any relation to mcgregor socks?


Sorry, do not know. The McGregor of the ads was once a large U.S. maker of men's sportswear. (Casual clothing.)


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Several of those outfits - or near replicas - made it to "Mad Men." I'd go so far as to wager that this ad was probably one of the show's sources as the outfits were really close.


The costumes of both male and female characters in the series were nothing short of brilliant. Spot-on including nuance and subtle details. I think I enjoyed Roger's and Bert's wardrobes most. They wore examples of subsets of the era's TNSIL fashion that entailed added sophistication. You would have to say the messages inherent in these clothes were a vital part of the character. Not a false note anywhere.

All the product of the attractive young costume designer, Janie Bryant, and her team. I couldn't believe how perfectly she recreated the era's clothing.










https://screenrant.com/mad-men-10-hidden-details-costumes-never-noticed/


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> The costumes of both male and female characters in the series were nothing short of brilliant. Spot-on including nuance and subtle details. I think I enjoyed Roger's and Bert's wardrobes most. They wore examples of subsets of the era's TNSIL fashion that entailed added sophistication. You would have to say the messages inherent in these clothes were a vital part of the character. Not a false note anywhere.
> 
> All the product of the attractive young costume designer, Janie Bryant, and her team. I couldn't believe how perfectly she recreated the era's clothing.
> 
> View attachment 36152
> 
> 
> https://screenrant.com/mad-men-10-hidden-details-costumes-never-noticed/


The show did its homework. From the clothes, cars, houses to the little details like the book on the table or style of wall paper, it usually got it right.

I loved Roger's style. It fit his character's personality - snobbish but aware he's snobbish so he sometimes came down from his perch - and his body type really well.


----------



## Fading Fast

A pic not illustration, but still seems right for our thread.*

Very "Mad Men:"*









*And an illustration:*


----------



## eagle2250

Your choice of illustrations tosay makes me reflect on my Khaki, Olive and Navy hued cotton poplin summer suits purchased from O'Connell's several years back, but they are definitely not washable!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Your choice of illustrations tosay makes me reflect on my Khaki, Olive and Navy hued cotton poplin summer suits purchased from O'Connell's several years back, but they are definitely not washable!


I think the "washable" suit has always been a sartorial yeti. To wit, were people really throwing poplin or seersucker "washable" suits in the washer, hanging them to dry and wearing them?

I doubt that ever resulted in a decent looking outcome. I've always assumed almost everyone was in on the joke; no-one really - truly - thought they'd be washing their suit and getting a crisp wearable result.

It was marketing in the way the Ginsu Knives were marketed - no one ever believed they could do all that.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> The show did its homework. From the clothes, cars, houses to the little details like the book on the table or style of wall paper, it usually got it right.
> 
> I loved Roger's style. It fit his character's personality - snobbish but aware he's snobbish so he sometimes came down from his perch - and his body type really well.


Superb production all the way through. The production design; the sets and costumes, creaated the context for the plot, and the costumes aided immeasurably in helping to create and enhance the characters. The dialog, mostly subtly, revealed the underlying social assumptions of the era.

Watching it I kept repeating to my wife, "I can't believe how historically true to life the sets and characters are!"


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I think the "washable" suit has always been a sartorial yeti. To wit, were people really throwing poplin or seersucker "washable" suits in the washer, hanging them to dry and wearing them?
> 
> I doubt that ever resulted in a decent looking outcome. I've always assumed almost everyone was in on the joke; no-one really - truly - thought they'd be washing their suit and getting a crisp wearable result.
> 
> It was marketing in the way the Ginsu Knives were marketed - no one ever believed they could do all that.


Years back I purchased an Orvis jacket that they said was machine washable. Taking them at their word, I did wash and line dry the damn thing. I think it safe to say I quite literally ruined that jacket. Although the wife was able to iron out the wrinkles well enough to allow me to get some wear out of the jacket....though the sleeves were a tad short. :fool:


----------



## Fading Fast

Is that a duffle coat on the guy in the far-right background?


----------



## eagle2250

^^It sure looks like he is.....
or perhaps it is a stadium coat. Woolrich used to make and sell such back in the 1950's and early 1960's


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36191
> 
> Is that a duffle coat on the guy in the far-right background?


Cool! And it is indeed a duffle coat. But what color is it? Camel or _winter white!_?


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Cool! And it is indeed a duffle coat. But what color is it? Camel or _winter white!_?


Let's hope camel, winter white does not sound right for that type of coat.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Let's hope camel, winter white does not sound right for that type of coat.


:icon_scratch: I believe camel is the original color for the coats.

Winter white is something I remember from the early '60's, and that been revived several times since.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> :icon_scratch: I believe camel is the original color for the coats.
> 
> Winter white is something I remember from the early '60's, and that been revived several times since.


I have no doubt about what you say as, eventually, all this stuff gets iterated to the ultima thule.

Since I think of those coats as military workwear, the winter white seems too precious a color, but who am I kidding, as I own a bunch of LL Bean outdoor hiking and camping stuff that I wear to go to the supermarket in NYC.

At judgement day, I expect to hear this:

Judge: "Heaven? come on, let's get real, but in reviewing your file, there's really nothing eternal-damnation worthy either - you're more disappointing than horrible, so we've come up with a unique afterlife for you. You'll live in a perpetual 1970s and have to buy and wear an all polyester wardrobe from that era, plus you can only listen to disco and can only watch endless reruns of "Three's Company."​​Me: Um, not that I don't appreciate the consideration, but could you give me a little more detail about Hell?​


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I have no doubt about what you say as, eventually, all this stuff gets iterated to the ultima thule.
> 
> Since I think of those coats as military workwear, the winter white seems too precious a color, but who am I kidding, as I own a bunch of LL Bean outdoor hiking and camping stuff that I wear to go to the supermarket in NYC.
> 
> At judgement day, I expect to hear this:
> 
> Judge: "Heaven? come on, let's get real, but in reviewing your file, there's really nothing eternal-damnation worthy either - you're more disappointing than horrible, so we've come up with a unique afterlife for you. You'll live in a perpetual 1970s and have to buy and wear an all polyester wardrobe from that era, plus you can only listen to disco and can only watch endless reruns of "Three's Company."​​Me: Um, not that I don't appreciate the consideration, but could you give me a little more detail about Hell?​


"Watching endless reruns of Three's Company?" I think the judge has just told you that you are already destined for hell, but in any even, our's is a forgiving God......at least I hope so! :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36208


Cool stuff! One of each, please! (Except, maybe, the vest. :icon_scratch


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Cool stuff! One of each, please! (Except, maybe, the vest. :icon_scratch


As we chatted about this week, those vests popped up now and again on "Mad Men."

Salvatore form "Mad Men" (sorry you can't see more of the vest, it's best pic I could find of it):


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> As we chatted about this week, those vests popped up now and again on "Mad Men."
> 
> Salvatore form "Mad Men" (sorry you can't see more of the vest, it's best pic I could find of it):
> View attachment 36213


I would still wear an appropriate fancy odd vest with a suit, sparingly, if I ever wore suits at all any more!


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> I would still wear an appropriate fancy odd vest with a suit, sparingly, if I ever wore suits at all any more!


Given my objectionably overgrown midriff, I sometimes wear my polo shirts/fishing shirts un-tucked and when they are tucked I may wear an odd vest to obscure the offending body feature. However, when the temps are hovering at 90+ degrees and the humidity is 70+ percent , a vest is just so wrong!


----------



## Fading Fast

Another interesting vest:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36261


Ah, Gallic charm! 👍


----------



## eagle2250

What appears to be a grey herringbone tweed (on the left side of the illustration) seems more my style. In fact I have an HSM version in a charcoal hue that is very similar.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36311


Looks like the same models Esquire used to use, all 6'3" 145!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36311


Are we looking at the fictional "Thin Man's" extended family. If so they certainly have nice threads!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Looks like the same models Esquire used to use, all 6'3" 145!


But "Esquire" would have given them four to six more inches in the shoulders/chest so that they'd look like Superman.



eagle2250 said:


> Are we looking at the fictional "Thin Man's" extended family. If so they certainly have nice threads!


I thought the body proportions looked off - a bit too long and narrow.


----------



## Fading Fast

Big men, big coats. Very '40s to mid-'50s, which was echoed in the '90s. Having owned a "big" '90s double-breasted overcoat (which looked off on my narrow frame - we all have our mistake purchases), I'll say this, the thing kept you warm. It was like wrapping yourself up in a very heavy blanket with buttons and sleeves.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> But "Esquire" would have given them four to six more inches in the shoulders/chest so that they'd look like Superman.
> 
> :laughing:
> 
> I thought the body proportions looked off - a bit too long and narrow.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36327
> 
> Big men, big coats. Very '40s to mid-'50s, which was echoed in the '90s. Having owned a "big" '90s double-breasted overcoat (which looked off on my narrow frame - we all have our mistake purchases), I'll say this, the thing kept you warm. It was like wrapping yourself up in a very heavy blanket with buttons and sleeves.


A world I remember, great coats!

I can see my father going out the door with a snow shovel on a cold winter's morn to start his car. Then turning around and handing me the shovel!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36334


Great illustration, great clothes!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration, great clothes!


I'm with you, I like everything right down to the college kids in the background.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration, great clothes!


......True dat and Hart, Schaffner & Marx was one of my greatly preferred brands back in the day!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36352


Very nice!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 36353


So much to choose from, so little time!


----------



## Flanderian

Did we do this one yet?


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Wonderful. And there's the yellow windowpane vest again. The overcoat could have come right out of your "Esquire" thread.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Indeed, the windowpane vest is ever present and there must be a subliminal message in that, but in the illustration above the tweed suit coat and that magnificent overcoat are the stars that will engage our imaginations and, might I say, put a twinkle in our eyes? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36364


LOL. The only time I can recall bystanders watching as myself and others walked away from an airframe in the middle of a field of green, the airframe was a UH-1 heliocopter that had lost power and had to auto-rotate to the ground, The field was a Missouri corn field, not a grass landing strip; the bystander(s) were overweight farmers wearing Bib-overhauls and leaning on their pick-ups, not stylishly dressed attractive women; and the conversation was "you boys look like you could use a ride," and not "hey good looking, what ya got cooking!" But then, I wasn't wearing a Kuppenheimer suit, but rather a contractor produced OD flight suit! :crazy:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Wonderful. And there's the yellow windowpane vest again. The overcoat could have come right out of your "Esquire" thread.





eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Indeed, the windowpane vest is ever present and there must be a subliminal message in that, but in the illustration above the tweed suit coat and that magnificent overcoat are the stars that will engage our imaginations and, might I say, put a twinkle in our eyes? :icon_scratch:


Forgot to mention that the ad was attributed to HSM.



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36364


Kuppenheimer retained a reputation for quality throughout my youth.



eagle2250 said:


> LOL. The only time I can recall bystanders watching as myself and others walked away from an airframe in the middle of a field of green, the airframe was a UH-1 heliocopter that had lost power and had to auto-rotate to the ground, The field was a Missouri corn field, not a grass landing strip; the bystander(s) were overweight farmers wearing Bib-overhauls and leaning on their pick-ups, not stylishly dressed attractive women; and the conversation was "you boys look like you could use a ride," and not "hey good looking, what ya got cooking!" But then, I wasn't wearing a Kuppenheimer suit, but rather a contractor produced OD flight suit! :crazy:


Any landing you can walk away from is a *good* landing! :beer:


----------



## Flanderian

More nice HSM stuff -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ The print is too small, where do I order his raglan overcoat from?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ The print is too small, where do I order his raglan overcoat from?


Indeed, what appears to be a windowpane overlay on the great coat certainly does add to it's obvious appeal! As to the Herringbone weave suit coat, I used to have an HSM sport coat that looked very similar, but alas, I think it was lost a few years back, during the 'Great Purge' for us to fit into smaller digs!


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm guessing '30s and it's what I love about the '30s - a boldness in look and not a slave to one fashion. The '30s was the most adventurous decade in men's clothing in the last hundred years. 
I'


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ The print is too small, where do I order his raglan overcoat from?


I'm not entirely sure, but I know these guys could help!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm guessing '30s and it's what I love about the '30s - a boldness in look and not a slave to one fashion. The '30s was the most adventurous decade in men's clothing in the last hundred years.
> I'
> View attachment 36395


👍👍👍

:happy:


----------



## Flanderian

Via the WABAC Machine -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Super good one.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I'm guessing '30s and it's what I love about the '30s - a boldness in look and not a slave to one fashion. The '30s was the most adventurous decade in men's clothing in the last hundred years.
> I'
> View attachment 36395


Put a bit of taper in those trouser legs and those rigs would fit right in today!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36426


Everything very nice, but I love the contrasting vest worn with the right suit!


----------



## Flanderian

Steve Allen?


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ nice, kudos to the artist - the suit drapes very naturally.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36468


I Really like the half belted design incorporated into three of those jackets. The jacket worn by the gentleman standing to the rear on the right is the one best capturing my imagination!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I Really like the half belted design incorporated into three of those jackets. The jacket worn by the gentleman standing to the rear on the right is the one best capturing my imagination!


I want to see the suit on the gentleman third from the left in its full technicolor glory. It will either be a love or hate; there will be no middle ground on that one.


----------



## Oldsport

Is it just me or is there a LOT of waist suppression on those jackets?


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsport said:


> Is it just me or is there a LOT of waist suppression on those jackets?


Very much so. I'm guessing '30s as, other than the hats, it look that era to me.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I want to see the suit on the gentleman third from the left in its full technicolor glory. It will either be a love or hate; there will be no middle ground on that one.


This could be your cloth.


----------



## Flanderian

Oldsport said:


> Is it just me or is there a LOT of waist suppression on those jackets?





Fading Fast said:


> Very much so. I'm guessing '30s as, other than the hats, it look that era to me.


Very '30's! And I believe the illustrator even slightly exaggerated the already extant waist suppression of the era.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> This could be your cloth.
> 
> View attachment 36478


Much less dramatic than pictured in my mind. In a mid-grey, I'd wear it today.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsport said:


> Is it just me or is there a LOT of waist suppression on those jackets?





Flanderian said:


> Very '30's! And I believe the illustrator even slightly exaggerated the already extant waist suppression of the era.


Indeed, but back in the good old days they weren't so paranoid about a bit of padding in the shoulders. Some might claim they shopped for such, but the bottom line was as the shoulders were built up and spread out, waist suppression was a convenient way of accommodating such inflated shoulders by tailoring the waists of those jackets. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36494


*Lovely* illustration!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> *Lovely* illustration!


Agreed, the artist has his/her own style and it's a good one.


----------



## Fading Fast

Didn't say, but the style of the illustration and the shirt price say 1920s / early '30s to me.

Beautiful illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ nothing, really? Boy, I thought it's a really neat one.

Oh well, here's today's ⇩


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ nothing, really? Boy, I thought it's a really neat one.
> 
> Oh well, here's today's ⇩
> 
> View attachment 36589





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36539
> 
> Didn't say, but the style of the illustration and the shirt price say 1920s / early '30s to me.
> 
> Beautiful illustration.


I didn't realize our Fearless Leader's talents extended to such! 
Yes a truly beautiful illustration! :beer:



Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ nothing, really? Boy, I thought it's a really neat one.
> 
> Oh well, here's today's ⇩
> 
> View attachment 36589


Great suit and illustration!

A year or two ago, the Seoul tailor B&Tailor made one in a near identical cloth. I thought it handsome and well suited to business, however, many disagreed. Don't have the image archived, and suspect it exceeds the size limits to post anyway.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ - Both are really nice, the Arrow one just sings to me as a piece of art work.


----------



## Flanderian

Flanderian said:


> I didn't realize our Fearless Leader's talents extended to such!
> Yes a truly beautiful illustration! :beer:
> 
> Great suit and illustration!
> 
> A year or two ago, the Seoul tailor B&Tailor made one in a near identical cloth. I thought it handsome and well suited to business, however, many disagreed. Don't have the image archived, and suspect it exceeds the size limits to post anyway.





Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ - Both are really nice, the Arrow one just sings to me as a piece of art work.


AAAC can't handle the file size, but here's the link to the suit B&Tailor made with very similar cloth -


__
https://did%3Ddfddcbef64939ccdfac093cef56411e73307a117%3Bid%3D172165223623%3Bkey%3DjPKqQHw98xr46oDVWASlEQ%3Bname%3Dbntailor

Edit: Hmm. interesting. it did post when I provided the link.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ And some darn impressive tailoring going on as well

⇩ I could see a suit like this hanging in Flanderian's closet


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ And some darn impressive tailoring going on as well
> 
> ⇩ I could see a suit like this hanging in Flanderian's closet
> 
> View attachment 36659


Perhaps 20 years ago when in business.

But I'm strictly a party animal now!


----------



## Fading Fast

One must look past the supine and partially clad woman to see the "strong echo of Don Draper from *Mad Man*" gentleman leaning in the background.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> One must look past the supine and partially clad woman to see the "strong echo of Don Draper from *Mad Man*" gentleman leaning in the background.
> View attachment 36677


LOL. One could make a whole lot of assumptions as they consider your illustration. Perhaps the frisky Mrs Draper wanted to introduce the Mr. to her brand new little black dress. Or perhaps Dandy Don has just asked the Mrs. if she "smokes after intercourse" and she is replying that "yes she does"...Or is this just another one of those clandestine liaisons alluded to so frequently on the show? Today's illustration offers the potential to have a lot of fun!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. One could make a whole lot of assumptions as they consider your illustration. Perhaps the frisky Mrs Draper wanted to introduce the Mr. to her brand new little black dress. Or perhaps Dandy Don has just asked the Mrs. if she "smokes after intercourse" and she is replying that "yes she does"...Or is this just another one of those clandestine liaisons alluded to so frequently on the show? Today's illustration offers the potential to have a lot of fun!


I don't want to get thrown off of AAAC; hence, it took some finessing to find the right way to caption that illustration as, as you noted, there's a heck of a lot one could infer.

Besides the man having a hint of Don Draper's look, the female has a hint of the character Joan's (played by Christina Hendricks) look.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> One must look past the supine and partially clad woman


Why!? 

:happy:


----------



## Fading Fast

So here's what I'm getting: leather or suede tassel loafers, blue dress trousers, plaid sport coat, button-down collar shirt, tie and balmacaan


----------



## Oldsport

Fading Fast said:


> I don't want to get thrown off of AAAC; hence, it took some finessing to find the right way to caption that illustration as, as you noted, there's a heck of a lot one could infer.
> 
> Besides the man having a hint of Don Draper's look, the female has a hint of the character Joan's (played by Christina Hendricks) look.


The man looks more like a young Roger (before Gray hair) than Don to me.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsport said:


> The man looks more like a young Roger(ore Gray hair) than Don to me.


I see what you're saying. He definitely has more of a Roger jawline, but that is more of a Don outfit.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36715
> 
> So here's what I'm getting: leather or suede tassel loafers, blue dress trousers, plaid sport coat, button-down collar shirt, tie and balmacaan


Nice! But Roger was born with grey hair!


----------



## Fading Fast

While there is some depth perception, the main figure echoes those Ancient Egyptian drawings of flat people. My guess, it's from the '20s, but pretty darn good proportions on the suit.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36760
> 
> While there is some depth perception, the main figure echoes those Ancient Egyptian drawings of flat people. My guess, it's from the '20s, but pretty darn good proportions on the suit.


Good analogy!


----------



## Flanderian

It's almost winter! :happy:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> It's almost winter! :happy:
> 
> View attachment 36762


That is a coat.



Flanderian said:


> View attachment 36767


Not an exact copy, but a strong similarity to the suit in the most recent post of Lee Iacocca in the "Trad Men Photos" thread.


----------



## Fading Fast

From 1949. Had never heard of "Stamina Clothes" or "Crusader Cloth."


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36791
> 
> From 1949. Had never heard of "Stamina Clothes" or "Crusader Cloth."


Wow, what a pair of pants! :beer:

And the shirt is pretty nice too. Being hopelessly archaic, I'd be delighted to wear the same thing upon a warm spring day!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wow, what a pair of pants! :beer:
> 
> And the shirt is pretty nice too. Being hopelessly archaic, I'd be delighted to wear the same thing upon a warm spring day!


Had you ever heard of those brands?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Had you ever heard of those brands?


No, I don't recall them at all, even in my early boyhood. (Which extends back roughly to the time of Moses! )

So, they were either gone by the early 50's, or were a less advertised brand. And I think they must certainly also be the latter, as I can recall later viewing ad art from before my arrival. But the art work is superb, really beautiful!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36897


I would wear both the leather windbreaker and the fedora. Are we looking at a 1940's ad? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36840


In my belated attempt to garner some interest in this one - does anyone else see an echo of actor Walter Pigeon from "Mrs. Miniver" fame in this gentleman?



eagle2250 said:


> I would wear both the leather windbreaker and the fedora. Are we looking at a 1940's ad? :icon_scratch:


It didn't say, but I agree with you, looks '40s to me.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36840





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36897


Delightful! :beer:


----------



## Flanderian

Early '50's?


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Early '50's?
> 
> View attachment 36908


I agree, but mainly because of the style of the illustration as the clothes could probably be anywhere from '30s - '50s. That said, the women in the background far left look more '50s than '30s for sure.

The pink stucco and tile roof says Bermuda to me.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I agree, but mainly because of the style of the illustration as the clothes could probably be anywhere from '30s - '50s. That said, the women in the background far left look more '50s than '30s for sure.
> 
> The pink stucco and tile roof says Bermuda to me.


You need to make a present day trip to Florida. Pink stucco and tile roofs are not an unusual sight. Perhaps we stole the idea from the Bermudians? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> You need to make a present day trip to Florida. Pink stucco and tile roofs are not an unusual sight. Perhaps we stole the idea from the Bermudians? :icon_scratch:


I love the Spanish influences in FL architecture. And, of course, you are right - Bermuda does not have a monopoly on the pink stucco look. That pic just felt Bermuda to me.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

The title was Ralph Lauren Wimbledon uniforms. I don't know what year, but based on the cuts, I'd say they are from the last ten years


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 36926


I'll take 2, 4 and 8 o'clock, please! 


Fading Fast said:


> The title was Ralph Lauren Wimbledon uniforms. I don't know what year, but based on the cuts, I'd say they are from the last ten years
> View attachment 36969


All but the sneakers.


----------



## Fading Fast

His outfit is neat; her aviatrix one is super cool.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37013
> 
> His outfit is neat; her aviatrix one is super cool.


+1. Ya just have to love those boots!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37013
> 
> His outfit is neat; her aviatrix one is super cool.


👍 👍 👍


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37178


Nice illustration.....didn't J Press just have a sale on that jacket,,,a true test of Trad!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice illustration.....didn't J Press just have a sale on that jacket,,,a true test of Trad!


I think they had something similar. "Mad Men" had several of those in episodes over the years too.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37122





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37178


Super cool!

Both very nice!

:beer:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37224












I don't know . . . . 

Somehow it just all seems to go together, with the smell of earth and blood still in your nose after the Thanksgiving game.


----------



## Fading Fast

And a post Thanksgiving Day bonus illustration:








And another brand - Adam Shirts - that I'm not familiar with.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> And a post Thanksgiving Day bonus illustration:
> View attachment 37268
> 
> And another brand - Adam Shirts - that I'm not familiar with.


Based on some quick research, I'd say--subject to correction--that ads for Adam shirts began in the spring of 1940 and went continuously throughout the 1940s and into the early 1950s. They seem to have fizzled out in 1955.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> Based on some quick research, I'd say--subject to correction--that ads for Adam shirts began in the spring of 1940 and went continuously throughout the 1940s and into the early 1950s. They seem to have fizzled out in 1955.


Thank you - good info.

That also explains why, being born in '64, I didn't know the brand except that I have been interested in 20th Century clothing history for decades. That said, there is always knew stuff in history to discover.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37340


Scenes of my youth!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37340


Dickies are well made and surprisingly durable. I've worn out a few pair working in agricultural and industrial settings. Also wore them working as a community service settings repairing other peoples houses and doing yard work.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37375


Nice!!! A very Brooks feeling! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Fading Fast

I run into these sewing pattern thingies from time to time and am usually underwhelmed (as I am by the medium blue suit and tie in the center), but the guys to the right and left could have just stepped off the set of "Mad Men."


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37470
> 
> 
> I run into these sewing pattern thingies from time to time and am usually underwhelmed (as I am by the medium blue suit and tie in the center), but the guys to the right and left could have just stepped off the set of "Mad Men."


Mrs Eagle is pretty adept with a sewing machine. She has made me a couple of shirts and she has made herself and the girls more substantial garments over the years. With one of those patterns, I wonder if she might be able to pop out a man's suit or two? :icon_scratch: Well I just asked and was informed, "Don't hold your breath!"


----------



## FiscalDean

eagle2250 said:


> Mrs Eagle is pretty adept with a sewing machine. She has made me a couple of shirts and she has made herself and the girls more substantial garments over the years. With one of those patterns, I wonder if she might be able to pop out a man's suit or two? :icon_scratch: Well I just asked and was informed, "Don't hold your breath!"


I feel your pain. My wife has a BS in Home Economics and took a couple of tailoring classes as part of her course work (She got an A in tailoring and in pattern making). I've yet to convince her to do any work for me.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I can get the odd button put on or lose seam tightened, but that't it. But, to be fair to super girlfriend, that's the extent of her sewing skills, so she's not saying no, she just doesn't have the skill.

In my next life, maybe I'll just have to limit my dating to women with a full slate of tailoring skills.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I can get the odd button put on or lose seam tightened, but that't it. But, to be fair to super girlfriend, that's the extent of her sewing skills, so she's not saying no, she just doesn't have the skill.
> 
> In my next life, maybe I'll just have to limit my dating to women with a full slate of tailoring skills.


Well to be honest, I just got lucky and fell into the sewing skills. When I saw her working a cash register at the Base Commissary and first asked the future Mrs Eagle out, it was purely because I thought she looked hot!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Well to be honest, I just got lucky and fell into the sewing skills. When I saw her working a cash register at the Base Commissary and first asked the future Mrs Eagle out, it was purely because I thought she looked hot!


There is no young man of sound mind and body anywhere who would prioritize otherwise.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hard to believe people once dressed for a picnic that way. Love the bottle opener on the side of the cooler. I don't know, but I bet a cooler like that in good condition is a sought after collectable today.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> With one of those patterns, I wonder if she might be able to pop out a man's suit or two?


Hmmm.


FiscalDean said:


> My wife...took a couple of tailoring classes as part of her course work. I've yet to convince her to do any work for me.


Hmmmm.


Fading Fast said:


> In my next life, maybe I'll just have to limit my dating to women with a full slate of tailoring skills.


Hmmmm.

Curious. Have you three ever considererd getting off your chauvinistic butt ends, picking up a needle and...(why do I bother with this?) Never mind.


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> Hmmm.
> Hmmmm.Hmmmm.
> 
> Curious. Have you three ever considererd getting off your chauvinistic butt ends, picking up a needle and...(why do I bother with this?) Never mind.


I assume your are kidding as, otherwise, I don't understand your post. I don't sew because I don't want to make the effort or devote the time to it and I'm willing to pay a tailor to sew for me. I also have no expectations that my girlfriend should sew nor do I expect her do any of what had once been considered traditional woman household things.

We share the household responsibilities, but since she has some sewing skills and I none - she does some simple sewing tasks for me, just as I tend to do most of our folding and steaming as I am better at those things.

When we met, I told my girlfriend, from day one, I expect nothing more than that we share domestic responsibilities relatively evenly - she wholeheartedly agreed then and to this day with that approach to our relationship. That said, there is nothing chauvinistic if someone wants a partner based on the domestic skills they have as long they are open and honest with that partner as to their expectations and the partner agrees.

I couldn't care less about the domestic stuff - beyond us sharing it reasonably fairly - as I did all the household chores growing up and lived by myself for years before I met my now girlfriend of 23 years. But I have friends who wanted a wife that could cook or a man that could earn a living, etc., as that is the type of relationship they wanted.

To my post, I hoped it was seen as the the tongue-in-cheek spirit I intended, but even it taken seriously, I see nothing wrong with wanting traditional traits in a partner, again, as long as one is honest and transparent upfront about those desires.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> I assume your are kidding as, otherwise, I don't understand your post. I don't sew because I don't want to make the effort or devote the time to it and I'm willing to pay a tailor to sew for me. I also have no expectations that my girlfriend should sew nor do I expect her do any of what had once been considered traditional woman household things.
> 
> We share the household responsibilities, but since she has some sewing skills and I none - she does some simple sewing tasks for me, just as I tend to do most of our folding and steaming as I am better at those things.
> 
> When we met, I told my girlfriend, from day one, I expect nothing more than that we share domestic responsibilities relatively evenly - she wholeheartedly agreed then and to this day with that approach to our relationship. That said, there is nothing chauvinistic if someone wants a partner based on the domestic skills they have as long they are open and honest with that partner as to their expectations and the partner agrees.
> 
> I couldn't care less about the domestic stuff - beyond us sharing it reasonably fairly - as I did all the household chores growing up and lived by myself for years before I met my now girlfriend of 23 years. But I have friends who wanted a wife that could cook or a man that could earn a living, etc., as that is the type of relationship they wanted.
> 
> To my post, I hoped it was seen as the the tongue-in-cheek spirit I intended, but even it taken seriously, I see nothing wrong with wanting traditional traits in a partner, again, as long as one is honest and transparent upfront about those desires.


I am coining a new phrase. It's _over responding_. What you just did. My post comes from a fleeting consternation over how, on a clothing forum, so few actually dig into the mechanics of how putting pieces of cloth together forms something wearable and then actually with their hands, good light and a smattering of easily obtainable tools, delve into bits and pieces of it.

Your post has me prying into your domestic life, while your first line is more correct, that I am kidding maybe, yes, that's mainly what I do here. In deep truth I don't give a rat's ass if someone besides me tailors their own stuff, but It would be decent to have another to converse with.

You're one of my favorite posters here. The thought you put into your stuff as well as the written presentation of it is unparalleled, but this line from your post...

_I don't sew hecause I don't want to make the effort._

...sadly pulls your Peak and Pine star rating to four and seven-eighths, down from the much coveted five.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37526
> 
> Hard to believe people once dressed for a picnic that way. Love the bottle opener on the side of the cooler. I don't know, but I bet a cooler like that in good condition is a sought after collectable today.


Great illustration!

👍


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Sure it's a pic not illustration, but couldn't pass up sharing it.

And just to respect the thread:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37583
> 
> ⇧ Sure it's a pic not illustration, but couldn't pass up sharing it.
> 
> And just to respect the thread:
> View attachment 37584


Top, very cute!

Bottom, very elegant! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Top, very cute!
> 
> Bottom, very elegant! 👍


Agreed - reminded me of The Hollies "Bus Stop"


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37618


So evocative of the era! (Or at least my set's fantasies of the era! )


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> So evocative of the era! (Or at least my set's fantasies of the era! )


Even into the '80s, some people were still wearing suits to go to other people's house parties, so my guess, the pic - and your fantasies (in this case, anyway) - are reasonably accurate. And I'm not commenting on any symbolism in the baguette the guy is bringing. 

My parents didn't move in that type of world as when, in the summer, friends of my dad's would come over to sit on our patio, shorts and open collared shirts were the norm. Except for my grandfather who always wore a suit and tie or dress trousers, a sport coat and tie (despite his net worth being next to zero - he was truly from a different generation, had fought in the first world war).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## London380sl

Good luck with staying warm in that jacket. Looks like a good example of advertising fluff


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37687


Ah, McGregor!

Once the gold standard for middle quality American sportswear!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37764


A deja vue experience. Years back I found myself giften with a heavy duty (1/2 HP, I believe), a Craftsman! I was wearing a Blackwatch jacket, with charcoal hued trousers and, if my memory serves correctly, I was wearing my camelhair cardigan beneath the jacket. There was a robust fire going in the fireplace. Oddly, for the life of me, I can't remember what the wife, kids and grand kids were wearing. Now that selective memory just can't be good? :icon_scratch: LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A deja vue experience. Years back I found myself giften with a heavy duty (1/2 HP, I believe), a Craftsman! I was wearing a Blackwatch jacket, with charcoal hued trousers and, if my memory serves correctly, I was wearing my camelhair cardigan beneath the jacket. There was a robust fire going in the fireplace. Oddly, for the life of me, I can't remember what the wife, kids and grand kids were wearing. Now that selective memory just can't be good? :icon_scratch: LOL.


Possibly because it was so long ago there weren't any grandkids in the picture yet? From the few pics you've posted of yourself and your wife, I can't believe you guys have been grandparents that long unless - and some families are like this - you and your kids both had children at very young ages.

All that aside, it's funny how our memory works. My dad's been dead almost thirty years now (I was 25) and I can sometimes remember where we went, say, for one of his birthdays, but not have any clear picture of it in my mind, but for other events, I have a perfectly clear picture of it (who was there, what everyone was wearing), but not be sure why we were gathered or what year it was.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37821


This and the prior illustration: Lovely art work, great clothes.

Thanks for the memories!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37863


One of my favorite brands, for sure, but alas, they see very little wear time this far south.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> One of my favorite brands, for sure, but alas, they see very little wear time this far south.


My girlfriend's parents gave us a Pendleton blanket for Christmas last year - one of the nicest blankets we have. Based on that blanket, they seem to still be putting out a quality product.


----------



## Fading Fast

I think he has a tab collar on - note the subtle dimples in the collar around the tie - if so, great work by the illustrator:









Bonus pic, no menswear, but thought it was a fun one and that her dress is simple classic:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Hmm, a woman wearing a Christmas tree as a hat and a refrigerator full of beer and no comments.

Okay, let's stay with Christmas and try this one:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 37996


Todays illustration has quite a lot to tell us. The best thing about getting a new set of luggage for Christmas is that it may come with a trip to some exotic location. During my time as a road warrior, I seem to recall seeing a fair number of those leather clad Samsonite pieces (indicating I think that they held up well over time), but economics forced me to settle for more practical pieces, such as a canvas duffel bag, canvas B-4 bag and several canvas hang-up bags. Jeez Louise, today even the canvas bags go for $400 to $600. What the hell happened to our sense of value? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Hmm, a woman wearing a Christmas tree as a hat and a refrigerator full of beer and no comments.
> 
> Okay, let's stay with Christmas and try this one:
> View attachment 37933


Great!

Looks like a living room from my boyhood!

:happy:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38011


Gorgeous! :icon_cheers:

Thank you!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38011





Flanderian said:


> Gorgeous! :icon_cheers:
> 
> Thank you!


I find myself inclined to agree with brother Flanderians assessment, when considering the lady from her neck up. However, and I could be flat out wrong with this impression, but to my eyes it appears the illustrator has her upper body facing the wreath and her lower body facing in the opposite direction. Tell me please that this beautiful ladies breasts are not hanging out over her butt cheeks, but in doing so, explain the positioning of (I think) her right foot. LOL, Perhaps I just need to rest my fevered mind?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> I find myself inclined to agree with brother Flanderians assessment, when considering the lady from her neck up. However, and I could be flat out wrong with this impression, but to my eyes it appears the illustrator has her upper body facing the wreath and her lower body facing in the opposite direction. Tell me please that this beautiful ladies breasts are not hanging out over her butt cheeks, but in doing so, explain the positioning of (I think) her right foot. LOL, Perhaps I just need to rest my fevered mind?


She's a gymnast!


----------



## Fading Fast

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38026


Meant to comment when I posted the pic - his clothes are hard to see, but she's sporting a very Mary Tyler Moore from "The Dick Van ****" show outfit.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38044


LOL. It appears it is time to get a shorter Christmas Tree....or perhaps a husband with wings?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. It appears it is time to get a shorter Christmas Tree....or perhaps a husband with wings?


No kidding, that has to a be a 14 foot ceiling or more.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38044


Cute!

Thanks! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38069


I'm pretty sure that is an illustration depicting a situation we have all found ourselves in on more than a few occasions. That is exactly why I eventually broke down and purchased a fake tree........with the lights already and permanently strung on the tree! 
It take me all of five minutes to erect the tree these days,
and the grand kids make an enjoyable game of decorating the tree;
much to the seasonal delight of Grandma "D" and me!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I'm pretty sure that is an illustration depicting a situation we have all found ourselves in on more than a few occasions. That is exactly why I eventually broke down and purchased a fake tree........with the lights already and permanently strung on the tree!
> It take me all of five minutes to erect the tree these days,
> and the grand kids make an enjoyable game of decorating the tree;
> much to the seasonal delight of Grandma "D" and me!


We do it the old-fashion way, which means, despite our best efforts to keep the lights untangled when putting them away, they're still a cat's cradle when we go to put them on the tree. It's just part of Christmas.
:fool:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38069


Ah, the spirit of the *true* Christmas!!! :laughing:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> We do it the old-fashion way, which means, despite our best efforts to keep the lights untangled when putting them away, they're still a cat's cradle when we go to put them on the tree. It's just part of Christmas.
> :fool:


I admire your holiday spirit and your tenacity in upholding tradition. I admire that, but not quite enough to follow suit. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I admire your holiday spirit and your tenacity in upholding tradition. I admire that, but not quite enough to follow suit. LOL.


In my family, Christmas was a nice growing up, but no big deal. However, Christmas in my girlfriend's family is a big deal - so it is now a big deal to me. Kinda like why you live in in Florida; all successful relationships are based on a loving give and take. To wit, decorating the tree is now a two-person, full-day job and that's just one small part of our Christmas.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> In my family, Christmas was a nice growing up, but no big deal. However, Christmas in my girlfriend's family is a big deal - so it is now a big deal to me. Kinda like why you live in in Florida; all successful relationships are based on a loving give and take. To wit, decorating the tree is now a two-person, full-day job and that's just one small part of our Christmas.


My friend, you are a wise man!


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple of fun Christmas ones:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A couple of fun Christmas ones:
> View attachment 38170
> View attachment 38169


Terrific art! Thank you!


----------



## New Old Stock

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38169


Did someone lose that child at the information desk?! That woman is holding it up as if to ask - "this thing belong to anyone?"


----------



## Fading Fast

New Old Stock said:


> Did someone lose that child at the information desk?! That woman is holding it up as if to ask - "this thing belong to anyone?"


Probably. Even when I was growing up in the '70s, a "lost" child in a store wasn't treated as a big deal / risk the way it is now. A nearby neighbor had 8 kids, it was rare that they got everyone into the car on "the first count -" mom or dad or one of the older kids would often go back inside to find the "missing" one.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

^^



Fading Fast said:


> A couple of fun Christmas ones:
> View attachment 38170
> View attachment 38169


As brother Flanderian said...great, very detailed, art work and seasonally appropriate! Thank you.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> 
> As brother Flanderian said...great, very detailed, art work and seasonally appropriate! Thank you.


Glad you guys are enjoying them - I thought they (and today's) were really fun seasonal ones.


----------



## Flanderian

New Old Stock said:


> Did someone lose that child at the information desk?! That woman is holding it up as if to ask - "this thing belong to anyone?"


It's an auction, though generally purchase by the pound!


----------



## Fading Fast

A few more "The New Yorker" Christmas covers I like; some even have a small amount of cool vintage (to us) men's clothing. The guy caroling to the left in the '52 cover reminds me of how most of the older men looked waiting on the train platform in the winter when I started working in NYC in the early '80s.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A few more "The New Yorker" Christmas covers I like; some even have a small amount of cool vintage (to us) men's clothing. The guy caroling to the left in the '52 cover reminds me of how most of the older men looked waiting on the train platform in the winter when I started working in NYC in the early '80s.
> View attachment 38236
> View attachment 38237
> View attachment 38239
> View attachment 38238


Always delightful! :beer:


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## Fading Fast




----------



## IT_cyclist

Fading Fast said:


> A couple of fun Christmas ones:
> View attachment 38169


A story on advance fee swindlers... Does that mean Nigerian princes are trad?


----------



## Fading Fast

IT_cyclist said:


> A story on advance fee swindlers... Does that mean Nigerian princes are trad?


Sadly, there's much truth in your comment. Having worked in finance for >30yrs and read a lot of financial history, I'd argue that almost all scams/swindles/cheats are just variations on ones that have been around for hundreds and, sometimes, thousands of years. The vehicle and other details of it will be new, but the basic construct of the "plan" is usually just the same old thing dressed up for our modern world.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38393


Very nice!

Apparel Arts, I believe.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Apparel Arts, I believe.


Don't know - but makes sense, feels very '30s to me and is of AA's quality. Do you think the coat on the right is a reversal wool on one side and raincoat on the other?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38432


YOWZER! Sign me up, chief! 👍

(I want good lookin' gals in a babushka to smile admiringly at me too! )


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> YOWZER! Sign me up, chief! 👍
> 
> (I want good lookin' gals in a babushka to smile admiringly at me too! )


I'm 55, I want any girls to smile at me  .


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm 55, I want any girls to smile at me  .


Ah, so nice to be young!


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Ah, so nice to be young!


Indeed, the grass does appear greener on the younger side of the fence! LOL/


----------



## Fading Fast

And there's that admiring smile again.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38451
> 
> And there's that admiring smile again.


An appraising look and an admiring smile...the two go so well together!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38508


That trim uniformed look with a fine looking babe on his arm appeals to me, but the lunch bucket just has to go, though it is diserable as a collectors relic! I seem to recall wearing Dickies work wear back when I worked for the Pennsylvania Dept of Highways during a couple of summers and between academic quarters at Penn State...this year's winners of the Cotton Bowl! Just saying..... LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

His suit "feels" Haspel to me - tan, cotton, patch pockets at the hips and with a swelled edge.


----------



## Fading Fast

Happy New Year's







]

And since we're in the Interwoven world, my favorite of all Interwoven illustrations (which became the Paul Stuart logo):


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 38567


⇧ That's a really good one. I'm betting the gentleman has on a Polo coat


----------



## Fading Fast

Bonus pics - I came across these looking for a pic of a book I just finished reading, but thought the clothes were interesting:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Happy New Year's
> View attachment 38558
> ]
> 
> And since we're in the Interwoven world, my favorite of all Interwoven illustrations (which became the Paul Stuart logo):
> View attachment 38560
> View attachment 38561





Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 38567





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38603
> 
> 
> Bonus pics - I came across these looking for a pic of a book I just finished reading, but thought the clothes were interesting:
> View attachment 38605
> View attachment 38604


Marvelous!

Thank you!


----------



## Fading Fast

Girl, car, Gladstone - his clothes are the fourth most-interesting thing in the illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast

That's quite the overcoat on the left.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38620
> 
> Girl, car, Gladstone - his clothes are the fourth most-interesting thing in the illustration.


That is indeed a great ad...very entertaining, as well as informative. Though we don't see many guys wearing spats these days, eh? I absolutely love the Grip bag!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38626
> 
> That's quite the overcoat on the left.


Lovely!

A plenitude of masterpieces among Leyendecker's Kuppenheimer ads!


----------



## Fading Fast

More from our boy Leyendecker - dated 1920s. Amazing how the basic suit construct was in place by the '20s and lasted 'till, well, kinda now. A hundred years; not a bad run at all. Sans the vest, that suit could be worn at a fancy summer party to this day.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38630
> 
> More from our boy Leyendecker - dated 1920s. Amazing how the basic suit construct was in place by the '20s and lasted 'till, well, kinda now. A hundred years; not a bad run at all. Sans the vest, that suit could be worn at a fancy summer party to this day.


Suggested caption for the illustration; 'The spectator and the athlete, viewing the field of battle through different lenses!' Kuppenheimer seems to pursue a 'Track" theme in many of their advertisements.


----------



## Fading Fast

I was going to post another Kuppenheimer/Leyendecker, but stumbled upon this one and, loved it so much, decided to go with it for today:








Sweater, pants, boots and dog - what's not to like.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38630
> 
> More from our boy Leyendecker - dated 1920s. Amazing how the basic suit construct was in place by the '20s and lasted 'till, well, kinda now. A hundred years; not a bad run at all. Sans the vest, that suit could be worn at a fancy summer party to this day.





Fading Fast said:


> I was going to post another Kuppenheimer/Leyendecker, but stumbled upon this one and, loved it so much, decided to go with it for today:
> View attachment 38672
> 
> Sweater, pants, boots and dog - what's not to like.


Great illustrations! 
Thanks! :beer:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I was going to post another Kuppenheimer/Leyendecker, but stumbled upon this one and, loved it so much, decided to go with it for today:
> View attachment 38672
> 
> Sweater, pants, boots and dog - what's not to like.


A well seasoned gentleman, takes to the field to play an entertaining round of fetch with his best friend. What a great illustration! Thanks for sharing it with us!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustrations!
> Thanks! :beer:





eagle2250 said:


> A well seasoned gentleman, takes to the field to play an entertaining round of fetch with his best friend. What a great illustration! Thanks for sharing it with us!


I agree, this one is special. I think a big part of it is that we see so few casual clothes advertised in that era and these clothes are just so iconic (and beautifully illustrated).


----------



## Fading Fast

Without exaggeration, if you added up all the individual clothing items in this illustration, they would be about the entire number of items I had in my wardrobe my entire time in college.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

So, here's my question. This Rockwell is dated '31 - well before the returning GIs from WWII popularized khakis. To be sure, there is evidence of khakis or khaki-like pants being worn from the '20s on, but do you think these boys are wearing khakis or something else?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38753
> 
> So, here's my question. This Rockwell is dated '31 - well before the returning GIs from WWII popularized khakis. To be sure, there is evidence of khakis or khaki-like pants being worn from the '20s on, but do you think these boys are wearing khakis or something else?


Khaki existed prior to WWII. I suspect the two pictured in the illustration are wearing the 1930's version of Khakis.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Khaki existed prior to WWII. I suspect the two pictured in the illustration are wearing the 1930's version of Khakis.


Thank you. It's funny, you'll see khakis pop up in movies from the '30s on (and in pics from the '20s on) - usually (away from workingmen) on kids / students, just as you'll see them worn post WWII.

So, I guess the real difference is that the popularity of khakis skyrocketed after WWII, especially on college campuses owing to the GI Bill.

Also, kinda neat how you can see the "roots" of the '50s Ivy Style in this painting from '31.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another from Kuppenheimer - 1928. I'm guessing his coat can stop a small caliber bullet.


----------



## Oldsarge

This is probably a PRL ad but it seems in character.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38695
> 
> Without exaggeration, if you added up all the individual clothing items in this illustration, they would be about the entire number of items I had in my wardrobe my entire time in college.


No doubt better dressed than many!

Look at those 1" ties! 

Bane of my existence!


----------



## Oldsarge

I went through college in jeans, T-shirts and Pendleton board shirts. But that was in California.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> No doubt better dressed than many!
> 
> Look at those 1" ties!
> 
> Bane of my existence!


I appreciate the compliment, but I knew all but nothing about clothing style, history, classics, etc. in college - and had no money anyway.

That said, I had some instinctual lean, as my pants were one pair of 501s, one pair of chinos and a few grey dress trousers (for work), a pair of boat shoes (sun, rain, sleet, snow - I wore the boat shoes) and Chuck Taylors, one ragg wool sweater, one grey sweat shirt and a few OCBDs (Arrow Dover if memory serves) a pair (sadly) of Tom Mccann dress shoes (work again) and a few genetic ties that I don't even remember anything about.

A few other items - jean jacket, navy sport coat (work again), copy cat (cheap) Mighty Mac - and that got me through four years of school and work. I could move my entire wardrobe in one medium sized tote with a few items slung over my arm.

By the end of four years, they where all well worn. The boat shoes all but disintegrated - no kidding.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 38790
> 
> 
> This is probably a PRL ad but it seems in character.


Agreed, looks very PRL, especially the last few years where Ralph's been doing that over-the-top "Ivy" stuff like that cardigan.


----------



## Oldsarge

Yeah, that cardigan is totally out of it. Does anyone wear letterman's sweaters or jackets anymore? Not having any relatives that age to ask I put it out to the forum.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I appreciate the compliment, but I knew all but nothing about clothing style, history, classics, etc. in college - and had no money anyway.
> 
> That said, I had some instinctual lean, as my pants were one pair of 501s, one pair of chinos and a few grey dress trousers (for work), a pair of boat shoes (sun, rain, sleet, snow - I wore the boat shoes) and Chuck Taylors, one ragg wool sweater, one grey sweat shirt and a few OCBDs (Arrow Dover if memory serves) a pair (sadly) of Tom Mccann dress shoes (work again) and a few genetic ties that I don't even remember anything about.
> 
> A few other items - jean jacket, navy sport coat (work again), copy cat (cheap) Mighty Mac - and that got me through four years of school and work. I could move my entire wardrobe in one medium sized tote with a few items slung over my arm.
> 
> By the end of four years, they where all well worn. The boat shoes all but disintegrated - no kidding.


In the mid '60's, my sartorial fun while attending school was very limited. I recall wanting and purchasing a pair of traditional Wellington style black leather boots. (Who needs food, right!?) Ties of the era, in addition to being about 1 1/2" were quite conservative, as was main stream taste. The tie brand Rooster had long been known for their square ended wool and mohair ties, which were a staple of Ivy casual wear. In the mid '60's they introduced a model they called Ruffler, which were novelty printed cotton ties.

The weird thing was that they were actually rather smart in a wink and nod sort of way, and could look rather good with a solid sport jacket, or seersucker or tan poplin suit.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> In the mid '60's, my sartorial fun while attending school was very limited. I recall wanting and purchasing a pair of traditional black leather boots. (Who needs food, right!?) Ties of the era, in addition to being about 1 1/2" were quite conservative, as was main stream taste. The tie brand Rooster had long been known for their square ended wool and mohair ties, which were a staple of Ivy casual wear. In the mid '60's they introduced a model they called Ruffler, which were novelty printed cotton ties.
> 
> They weird thing was that they were actually rather smart in a wink and nod sort of way, and could look rather good with a solid sport jacket, or seersucker or tan poplin suit.
> 
> View attachment 38799
> 
> 
> View attachment 38800
> 
> 
> View attachment 38801


⇧ Are those your ties from back then? If so, it's fantastic that you still have them. Even if not, cool ties.

Not in college that I remember, where I made it through with about four ties (pretty sure one was a knockoff of the classic burgundy and navy striped one), but I definitely bought Rooster ties - the squared-off knit ones - when I started to learn about Ivy style post college.

In the '80s, living in NYC, I can remember wearing jeans, an OCBD, a Shetland, a Rooster knit tie, a herringbone tweed sport coat and desert boots as my "sporty" going out to a bar or casual restaurant outfit (my riff on Redford's outfit in "Three Days of the Condor," without the Redford good looks).


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I appreciate the compliment, but I knew all but nothing about clothing style, history, classics, etc. in college - and had no money anyway.
> 
> That said, I had some instinctual lean, as my pants were one pair of 501s, one pair of chinos and a few grey dress trousers (for work), a pair of boat shoes (sun, rain, sleet, snow - I wore the boat shoes) and Chuck Taylors, one ragg wool sweater, one grey sweat shirt and a few OCBDs (Arrow Dover if memory serves) a pair (sadly) of Tom Mccann dress shoes (work again) and a few genetic ties that I don't even remember anything about.
> 
> A few other items - jean jacket, navy sport coat (work again), copy cat (cheap) Mighty Mac - and that got me through four years of school and work. I could move my entire wardrobe in one medium sized tote with a few items slung over my arm.
> 
> By the end of four years, they where all well worn. The boat shoes all but disintegrated - no kidding.


I remember going off to my first USAF assignment after graduating and earning my commission. Virtually everything I owned (not just my clothes) easily fit into the trunk and back seat of a Dodge Challenger. That sort of explains the extent of my wardrobing options while in college. LOL


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> Yeah, that cardigan is totally out of it. Does anyone wear letterman's sweaters or jackets anymore? Not having any relatives that age to ask I put it out to the forum.


Who herein could still fit into their high school letterman's jacket? I casnnot claim to be one bold enough to claim to still be able to do that.  LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I remember going off to my first USAF assignment after graduating and earning my commission. Virtually everything I owned (not just my clothes) easily fit into the trunk and back seat of a Dodge Challenger. That sort of explains the extent of my wardrobing options while in college. LOL


I moved once during college and literally walked everything (it was just to the other side of the street) from the old to the new apartment (lived off campus, but year round) in two, maybe, three trips. Both apartments were "furnished" (sure, technically true), so other than a small chest of draws and a folding table, it was all clothes, books and a few other things - but still, all in only two or three trips by me alone. Owner of the house (it was an attic apt) of the new place did carry the chest of draws for me.



eagle2250 said:


> Who herein could still fit into their high school letterman's jacket? I casnnot claim to be one bold enough to claim to still be able to do that.  LOL.


I have been the same size and wieght since reaching adulthood (6'1", 150lb - height is down half an inch, but I'm cheating and rounding up). That said, 1. I'm kinda designed that way, 2. I work out, at least, twice as much as I did twenty years ago and 3. I eat less than half than I did back then as well.

Since I have none of my college clothes (they were quite ready to retire as soon as I finished), my oldest clothing is from the late '80s and it all fits, but is actually large as it was cut that way back then. I have a BB Tweed Herringbone sport coat from the late '80s that fits that description that I've been debating (for a few years now) having "cut down" to less "big" proportions as I don't wear it anymore as it looks silly (thinks one of the guys from "Friends").


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with "big" overcoats. Anyway ever heard of Stoneface fabrics?

The way this ad reads reminds me of the way cars used to be made where the manufacture, say, Cadillac would build out the chassis (with all the mechanical parts, engine, etc. in) and then turn it over to a "body" shop to build out the, well, "body" (the exterior design pieces and place were everyone sits - also called the "carriage," a term carried over from the horse-and-buggy days) to be completed.

You'll see old ads that read: "Cadillac, body by Fisher."


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Good looking coats, but I am unfamiliar with the Stone Face brand name. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Good looking coats, but I am unfamiliar with the Stone Face brand name. :icon_scratch:


Neither am I. Let's see if @Flanderian or one of our other regulars is.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Are those your ties from back then? If so, it's fantastic that you still have them. Even if not, cool ties.
> 
> Not in college that I remember, where I made it through with about four ties (pretty sure one was a knockoff of the classic burgundy and navy striped one), but I definitely bought Rooster ties - the squared-off knit ones - when I started to learn about Ivy style post college.
> 
> In the '80s, living in NYC, I can remember wearing jeans, an OCBD, a Shetland, a Rooster knit tie, a herringbone tweed sport coat and desert boots as my "sporty" going out to a bar or casual restaurant outfit (my riff on Redford's outfit in "Three Days of the Condor," without the Redford good looks).


Provided solely via the magic of Google! Mine are long gone. But these well represent the genre. A wide variety of clever prints, in small editions each. Cheaply made with just a canvas lining, cheaply sold and not intended for longevity, it's amazing these still exist, unless reissued.



Fading Fast said:


> Staying with "big" overcoats. Anyway ever heard of Stoneface fabrics?
> 
> The way this ad reads reminds me of the way cars used to be made where the manufacture, say, Cadillac would build out the chassis (with all the mechanical parts, engine, etc. in) and then turn it over to a "body" shop to build out the, well, "body" (the exterior design pieces and place were everyone sits - also called the "carriage," a term carried over from the horse-and-buggy days) to be completed.
> 
> You'll see old ads that read: "Cadillac, body by Fisher."
> View attachment 38805


Great coats! But I know them only from ads like this handsome illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38877


A comparatively unique illustrative approach, bright, colorful, looking almost like a brand new comic boot cover. Enjoyable to look at, to study and noodle over potential interpretations of the artwork, but I'm not sure how effective it might be as a sales advertisement? Just thinking.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A comparatively unique illustrative approach, bright, colorful, looking almost like a brand new comic boot cover. Enjoyable to look at, to study and noodle over potential interpretations of the artwork, but I'm not sure how effective it might be as a sales advertisement? Just thinking.


I felt pretty much like you - interesting and different, but not necessarily a great way to highlight the clothes.

That said, there was no information around the pic, so quite possibly, it's not intended to be about the clothes or to be "selling" the clothes.

Again, I thought it was just interesting to see a different illustrative approach.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38819





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38973


Charming! :loveyou:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 38973


A very interesting illustration...is the focus clothes or perhaps, relationships? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A very interesting illustration...is the focus clothes or perhaps, relationships? :icon_scratch:


Good question. From an illustrative skills' perspective, I was really impressed with the naturalness and fluidity of the woman's hair.

That said, I also wondered if this is really an illustration or some sort of digital pic / drawing amalgam?


----------



## Fading Fast

And now some true old-school illustration skills on display


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And now some true old-school illustration skills on display
> View attachment 39018


With those classic automobiles in the background and the older gentleman talking with the younger, today's illustration is reminiscent of the photographs on the back covers of their novels of Clive Cussler and his son, Dirk, talking, as they frame the front end of one of the classic automobiles in their collection. Well done, sir!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> With those classic automobiles in the background and the older gentleman talking with the younger, today's illustration is reminiscent of the photographs on the back covers of their novels of Clive Cussler and his son, Dirk, talking, as they frame the front end of one of the classic automobiles in their collection. Well done, sir!


Spot on, as an old-time Clive Cussler fan, I know exactly the covers you are referring to.


----------



## Fading Fast

So, a few things. Note the high rise of the pants. Also, even though we see it in old ads all the time, it's still a bit jarring when you see someone smoking in one.

And from the "fine store" copy at the bottom, it's funny to think of Paul Stuart carrying Grant as the store today is much higher end (but based on what I've read, when it started, it was more like Press or Brooks).

Lastly, I grew up in New Brunswick NJ (now that, that fact is out, if you soon stop seeing posts from me, it's probably because I got a discrete email from AAAC management about its "standards" and corporate "reputation" explaining why my posting privileges are being revoked) and don't remember a "Luke's" or "Lobe's" men's store - must have closed down before the '70s as the town isn't that big.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> So, a few things. Note the high rise of the pants. Also, even though we see it in old ads all the time, it's still a bit jarring when you see someone smoking in one.
> 
> And from the "fine store" copy at the bottom, it's funny to think of Paul Stuart carrying Grant as the store today is much higher end (but based on what I've read, when it started, it was more like Press or Brooks).
> 
> Lastly, I grew up in New Brunswick NJ (now that, that fact is out, if you soon stop seeing posts from me, it's probably because I got a discrete email from AAAC management about its "standards" and corporate "reputation" explaining why my posting privileges are being revoked) and don't remember a "Luke's" or "Lobe's" men's store - must have closed down before the '70s as the town isn't that big.
> View attachment 39048


Great ad, and great illustration! So evocative of the period, right down to the cancer-stick.

Once-upon-a-time, Gant BD's were nothing to be sneered at! In the hierarchy of common RTW shirt brands, perhaps with Hathaway at the top, Gant was upper-middle level quality. In the mid '60's when I started wearing suits for business I became obsessed with finding the brand with the best cut BD collar. The winner of my informal search was Gant. Just the right size for neckwear of the era, always with the perfect role.

New Brunswick, huh!? Ahh - the suburbs!!! (It's all comparative. )


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great ad, and great illustration! So evocative of the period, right down to the cancer-stick.
> 
> Once-upon-a-time, Gant BD's were nothing to be sneered at! In the hierarchy of common RTW shirt brands, perhaps with Hathaway at the top, Gant was upper-middle level quality. In the mid '60's when I started wearing suits for business I became obsessed with finding the brand with the best cut BD collar. The winner of my informal search was Gant. Just the right size for neckwear of the era, always with the perfect role.
> 
> New Brunswick, huh!? Ahh - the suburbs!!! (It's all comparative. )


Cool color on the OCBD in the era. You really touched the end of the era; I just saw the embers when I started building a wardrobe in the '80s.

New Brunswick as a town, I'm told as I haven't been there in decades, has come back somewhat with both Rutgers University (its main campus) and Johnson and Johnson (its corporate headquarters) money, but it was in bad shape in the '70s.

The few cool things about it is that it was a real town, and an old one - a main street at the center of the "business/shopping" district with a movie house, etc., and with small houses and modest apartment buildings within walking distance. Also, it was on a river and, more importantly, it was/is a mainline stop on the old Pennsylvania railroad.

Hence, even in my day, in addition to commuter trains, we got Amtrak service direct to NYC north and Philly, Washington and Baltimore to the south. The architecture from its pre-WWII heyday was very cool - albeit, in disrepair by the '70s - which helped you to feel its former glory.

Its funny, I guess it is a suburb of NYC, but being an old town, it never felt like suburbia to me - just "old town." I know I've mentioned this before, but growing up there - even though it was only an hour or so away from NYC - NYC seemed like Oz, a place to dream about going, but somewhere most of us would never get to.

My goal, hell or high water, was to get out and get to NYC; a goal I reminded myself of at 5:22am (yup, that was my train for my first job out of college to make it to work by 7am), standing on a frozen wind-whipped platform knowing I'd be lucky to be getting off the 7:10pm that night.

Last reminiscence for this post - about twenty years later, I took an Amtrak down to Washington as part of a Wall Street committee meeting with the SEC - it was an incredibly odd feeling to see New Brunswick fly by (the Acela didn't stop in New Brunswick) all those years later.


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple of football Sunday illustrations:


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

Notice the guy in the red shirt: he's wearing (what look like) grey wool trousers, my favorite "lost" classic to anchor a casual outfit. "Lost" as in men, unfortunately, just don't wear them casually anymore.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A couple of football Sunday illustrations:
> View attachment 39075
> View attachment 39077





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39121





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39163
> 
> Notice the guy in the red shirt: he's wearing (what look like) grey wool trousers, my favorite "lost" classic to anchor a casual outfit. "Lost" as in men, unfortunately, just don't wear them casually anymore.


All great stuff! Thanks! :loveyou:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> All great stuff! Thanks! :loveyou:


Thank you, I thought there've been some neat ones recently. Really liked the football illustrations. I held one back for the Super Bowl, but think I already put the best football one out there with the player sitting on the bench.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you, I thought there've been some neat ones recently. Really liked the football illustrations. I held one back for the Super Bowl, but think I already put the best football one out there with the player sitting on the bench.


I especially like Leyendecker's!


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## Fading Fast

⇧ I did come across that really good one, but thought I'd save it for Thanksgiving.


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## Fading Fast

Very impressed with this suit. I share a similar build with the the model and love the way the "sack" doesn't hang shapelessly on his body, but is still, clearly, an Ivy sack suit. I'd be taking this ad into my tailor if, well, you could still buy those suits OTR and I needed a suit.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I did come across that really good one, but thought I'd save it for Thanksgiving.


Gee, that would have been nice, wouldn't have? 



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39188
> 
> Very impressed with this suit. I share a similar build with the the model and love the way the "sack" doesn't hang shapelessly on his body, but is still, clearly, an Ivy sack suit. I'd be taking this ad into my tailor if, well, you could still buy those suits OTR and I needed a suit.


Norman Hilton's stuff (Not the son's) was top of the TNSIL food chain according to many. I happened to visit their factory on unrelated business when it was closing down. Wasn't really familiar with the brand and found myself literally open-mouthed at the quality of the garments, both cloth and tailoring. The soft canvased front draped like nothing I'd every handled before.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Gee, that would have been nice, wouldn't have?
> ...


What the heck, by Thanksgiving we can recycle it. 



Flanderian said:


> ...Norman Hilton's stuff (Not the son's) was top of the TNSIL food chain according to many. I happened to visit their factory on unrelated business when it was closing down. Wasn't really familiar with the brand and found myself literally open-mouthed at the quality of the garments, both cloth and tailoring. The soft canvased front draped like nothing I'd every handled before.


Good story, it's great that you had that opportunity.


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## Flanderian

Late '40's, early '50's. Wonder if it was actually salmon colored with raspberry stripes, or if that was just the illustrators license for some shade of earth tone!?


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> What the heck, by Thanksgiving we can recycle it.
> 
> Good story, it's great that you had that opportunity.


Thanks, but I immediately regretted my prior ignorance of the brand. 😢

As I recall the factory had closed down (Norman's passing?) and the clothing I looked at was hanging on pipe racks near the entry way, covered in plastic bags. I assume it was being jobbed out to be disposed of.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Thanks, but I immediately regretted my prior ignorance of the brand. 😢
> 
> As I recall the factory had closed down (Norman's passing?) and the clothing I looked at was hanging on pipe racks near the entry way, covered in plastic bags. I assume it was being jobbed out to be disposed of.


We could probably start an entire thread about "missed" opportunities. I only "discovered" A&F a few years before they were bought out and became a hipper Gap. Had I known they were going, despite my limited funds, I would have bought - at minimum - many more of their incredible (and right out of early '60s Ivy) tab-collar shirts.

Heck, I'd have probably bought something from Crouch and Fitzgerald (which was always above my price point) had I known it was going away. And I'd own a Press or Brooks reversible raincoat in 40L if I knew they were going to stop making 40Ls.

Here's another and more recent one. BB had the Thom Browne Black Fleece line for several years which I all but ignored because it always looked to slim cut and trendy in the ads. Then I strolled into a Black Fleece sale toward the end of the line and discovered the items were incredibly well made and many could be bought in normal fits.

The nicest cashmere sweaters I own (and that includes Purple Label ones) are the $99 close out BF ones (down from $700) I bought - they had three in my size, I bought all three (two v-necks - a grey and and ivory one - and one turtleneck). I also got one of the nicest pairs of wool gray flannels I've ever owned from BF and some wonderful OCBDs. I wish I had paid the brand attention the prior several years it was in BB.

I'm sure there are more, but those are the first ones that popped into my mind.

_For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'._
- John Greenleaf Whittier


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39227


A pleated and belted back, bi-swing shoulders , pleated pockets...Paraphrasing Ronnie Milsap, now that is a jacket design of which one could have "night dreams about day things" every time they closed their eyes!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A pleated and belted back, bi-swing shoulders , pleated pockets...Paraphrasing Ronnie Milsap, now that is a jacket design of which one could have "night dreams about day things" every time they closed their eyes!


It didn't have a date, but looks very late '20s or '30s to me, when, as you imply, there was a much more thoughtful approach to men's styling.

:icon_aportnoy:Nice quote - wasn't familiar with it.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> It didn't have a date, but looks very late '20s or '30s to me, when, as you imply, there was a much more thoughtful approach to men's styling.
> 
> :icon_aportnoy:Nice quote - wasn't familiar with it.


Thanks. Actually in Ronnie Milsap's song he is having "day dreams about night things, in the middle of the afternoon. I applied a bit of literary license and turned it around.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Thanks. Actually in Ronnie Milsap's song he is having "day dreams about night things, in the middle of the afternoon. I applied a bit of literary license and turned it around.


Oh, so like nearly every song ever written, he was thinking about sex. Got it.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> We could probably start an entire thread about "missed" opportunities. I only "discovered" A&F a few years before they were bought out and became a hipper Gap. Had I known they were going, despite my limited funds, I would have bought - at minimum - many more of their incredible (and right out of early '60s Ivy) tab-collar shirts.
> 
> Heck, I'd have probably bought something from Crouch and Fitzgerald (which was always above my price point) had I known it was going away. And I'd own a Press or Brooks reversible raincoat in 40L if I knew they were going to stop making 40Ls.
> 
> Here's another and more recent one. BB had the Thom Browne Black Fleece line for several years which I all but ignored because it always looked to slim cut and trendy in the ads. Then I strolled into a Black Fleece sale toward the end of the line and discovered the items were incredibly well made and many could be bought in normal fits.
> 
> The nicest cashmere sweaters I own (and that includes Purple Label ones) are the $99 close out BF ones (down from $700) I bought - they had three in my size, I bought all three (two v-necks - a grey and and ivory one - and one turtleneck). I also got one of the nicest pairs of wool gray flannels I've ever owned from BF and some wonderful OCBDs. I wish I had paid the brand attention the prior several years it was in BB.
> 
> I'm sure there are more, but those are the first ones that popped into my mind.
> 
> _For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'._
> - John Greenleaf Whittier


Missed opportunities perhaps, but at least you got those lovely sweaters. BF? I'm having senior-moment, help me out!

Your mention of Crouch and Fitzgerald brings back a pleasant memory, I was poking about their Madison Avenue store perhaps 30 years ago when an attractive young woman walked in who, a moment later, I realized was Sigourney Weaver. I do my best not to gawk at or molest celebrities, which I find demeaning to both parties, and when she noticed she had been recognized she simply smiled a pleasant, unaffected smile.



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39227


Great illustration! I think it may be from a Chicago Woolen Mills catalog, or at least share its illustrator.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Missed opportunities perhaps, but at least you got those lovely sweaters. BF? I'm having senior-moment, help me out!
> 
> Your mention of Crouch and Fitzgerald brings back a pleasant memory, I was poking about their Madison Avenue store perhaps 30 years ago when an attractive young woman walked in who, a moment later, I realized was Sigourney Weaver. I do my best not to gawk at or molest celebrities, which I find demeaning to both parties, and when she noticed she had been recognized she simply smiled a pleasant, unaffected smile.
> ...


BF for Brooks Brothers' Thom Browne Black Fleece line (BB carried it for, guessing, eight or so years in the mid '00s). I should have paid it more attention - especially on sale, there was great value there.

It is just possible that I was in C&F the same day you were as the timing is right, but I didn't see Ms. Weaver. That said, did you see a tall, skinny mid-20s year old guy looking lovingly at luggage and leather goods that he clearly couldn't afford? That would have been me.


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## Fading Fast




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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39257


Great illustration, and I'm blessed to possess a similar corduroy jacket. Marvelously comfortable and comforting, and goes with everything! :loveyou:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration, and I'm blessed to possess a similar corduroy jacket. Marvelously comfortable and comforting, and goes with everything! :loveyou:


I really like this illustration both the individual clothes (like the corduroy jacket - hopefully, they'll be "in" again one year with the somewhat tradish retailers still left, as I'd love to get one - a definite hole in my sport coat wardrobe) and the idea of a young man dressing like that for, what looks like, a date walking with a girl in the park.

What do think his pants are: grey flannels, grey moleskins or something else?


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39257


A truly remarkable illustration in so many ways, but I am most impressedthat the article titles mentioned seem as relevant today as they were when that March 31, 1951 Post magazine was published.


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## Fading Fast

Top pic: note his watch (can't see details, but "feels" very '50s "ivy)
Bottom pic: note his shoes (you might see this one again on Father's Day this year)


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39558
> View attachment 39559
> 
> Top pic: note his watch (can't see details, but "feels" very '50s "ivy)
> Bottom pic: note his shoes (you might see this one again on Father's Day this year)


Delightful!

Thank you.


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## Fading Fast

And another neat pants one:


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> And another neat pants one:
> View attachment 39587


Lookin' good!


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## Flanderian

Cross post, not an illustration, but I think it fits -


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Cross post, not an illustration, but I think it fits -
> 
> View attachment 39599


⇧ Neat pic, any idea where it is from?



Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 39614


⇧ My first thought was interesting contrast to American Ivy which was booming in the States in '55, but then I noticed that the lining of his coat matched his vest and my brain seized up.


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## Fading Fast

These cool drawing were shamelessly taken by me from this (see link)
recent post on the history of the Yale Co-op:

style-on-a-student-budget-remembering-the-yale-co-op.html





























The first and last ones are my favorites.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Neat pic, any idea where it is from?


Sorry, I don't believe the subject was named. But we can assume it was at some *very* nice private secondary school, as different in nature, as in place, from that which I enjoyed! 



Fading Fast said:


> These cool drawing were shamelessly taken by me from this (see link)
> recent post on the history of the Yale Co-op:
> 
> style-on-a-student-budget-remembering-the-yale-co-op.html
> View attachment 39624
> View attachment 39625
> View attachment 39626
> View attachment 39627
> 
> The first and last ones are my favorites.


Really cool ads! :loveyou:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Sorry, I don't believe the subject was named. But we can assume it was at some *very* nice private secondary school, as different in nature, as in place, from that which I enjoyed!
> 
> Really cool ads! :loveyou:


I love the co-op ads too - really well done. So simple, but skilled.

As to the school photo, in the universe, my high school existed simply to balance out the sartorial excellence of the one in the pic.


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## drpeter

A soupçon of nostalgia: I often feel that the classic three-button jacket of the sixties for suits and sportcoats should not have faded away from haberdasheries and clothing shops. I'm referring to the full three-button silhouette with lapels rolled beautifully from the inflection point just above the top button, and not the 3-roll-2 jacket (also very handsome) most closely associated with Trad or Ivy style. The classic three-button jacket did make a comeback of sorts in the mid-nineties, when shops and even mail-order businesses like Lands' End offered this model. But then it went away, and most ready-made suits and sports jackets now are two button, with occasional designer items that go for the three button style. Perhaps one can expect another return of this model, who knows?


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## WatchmanJimG

drpeter said:


> A soupçon of nostalgia: I often feel that the classic three-button jacket of the sixties for suits and sportcoats should not have faded away from haberdasheries and clothing shops. I'm referring to the full three-button silhouette with lapels rolled beautifully from the inflection point just above the top button, and not the 3-roll-2 jacket (also very handsome) most closely associated with Trad or Ivy style. The classic three-button jacket did make a comeback of sorts in the mid-nineties, when shops and even mail-order businesses like Lands' End offered this model. But then it went away, and most ready-made suits and sports jackets now are two button, with occasional designer items that go for the three button style. Perhaps one can expect another return of this model, who knows?


In my personal and professional experience the 3-button coat with high lapel roll is less suited to a variety of body types than a 3/2 or standard 2-button. This may or may not account for its disappearance from the limelight of course, but in my opinion nothing looked sillier than overweight middle-aged men during the 1990s cramming into 3-button coats because they thought it was "in style"--except possibly the same men wearing double-breasted coats.


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## drpeter

Thanks @WatchmanJimG , I suspected as much! Fortunately, I'm slim and of average height and build. I possess more three button and 3-roll-2 suits and jackets than I do two button ones, and I regularly receive positive comments and compliments about them -- either I'm fortunate, or I discovered the style that best suited me, or a bit of both, LOL. For big or overweight men, I imagine a well-cut double-breasted jacket, _worn buttoned_, might perhaps be more appropriate. But your point is well taken: The trouble is that there is so much material in big jackets (whether single- or double-breasted) that the quarters tend to billow and flap about like sails. DB models are supposed to be kept buttoned most of the time (unless one is sitting down), so they may flap around less. Just a few thoughts...


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## Fading Fast

From an art/skill perspective, IMHO, the man looks stilted or mannequin like. Oddly, the background - the house, car, people off to the right and the general landscape - look pretty good (woman's a bit awkward, too), but the guy in the light brown suit is a miss.


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## WatchmanJimG

drpeter said:


> I possess more three button and 3-roll-2 suits and jackets than I do two button ones, and I regularly receive positive comments and compliments about them -- either I'm fortunate, or I discovered the style that best suited me, or a bit of both, LOL.


I'm going with "a bit of both."


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## WatchmanJimG

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39656
> 
> From an art/skill perspective, IMHO, the man looks stilted or mannequin like. Oddly, the background - the house, car, people off to the right and the general landscape - look pretty good (woman's a bit awkward, too), but the guy in the light brown suit is a miss.


His proportions are exaggerated due to the impossibly wide shoulders, but otherwise I think it's a great picture.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## WatchmanJimG

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39686


Size 40 was the largest available. How times have changed!


----------



## Fading Fast

WatchmanJimG said:


> Size 40 was the largest available. How times have changed!


I noticed that too and wondered if, as is sometimes the case, that "40" chest" is different in some way from our "40 chest."

I wear a 40" chest, and while people were definitely smaller back then, I have a hard time believing my anemic chest was the largest their coats fit.


----------



## WatchmanJimG

Fading Fast said:


> I noticed that too and wondered if, as is sometimes the case, that "40" chest" is different in some way from our "40 chest."
> 
> I wear a 40" chest, and while people were definitely smaller back then, I have a hard time believing my anemic chest was the largest their coats fit.


Based on my experience collecting military uniforms from the WW2 era I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of coats range from 34-38; however, the occasional larger example is noted. One would think the coat in the advertisement could at least be had in Size 42 . . .


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## eagle2250

^^
Prior to retirement, I was wearing a size 44 uniform jacket. Egad, these days I would have to up size that to a 48. LOL, I'd like to say it appears that I've muscled up, but I fear that just might not be the case :crazy:


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## WatchmanJimG

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Prior to retirement, I was wearing a size 44 uniform jacket. Egad, these days I would have to up size that to a 48. LOL, I'd like to say it appears that I've muscled up, but I fear that just might not be the case :crazy:


It happens to the best of us. I was able to squeeze into the 39 coat/30 trouser I was issued in 1987 until around 2006, but no longer . . .


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## Fading Fast

WatchmanJimG said:


> Based on my experience collecting military uniforms from the WW2 era I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of coats range from 34-38; however, the occasional larger example is noted. One would think the coat in the advertisement could at least be had in Size 42 . . .


Good information. In your opinion, were the sizes then the equivalent of the sizes today? To wit, is a 40" chest then the same as a 40" chest today?

If so, it seems odd, as while I'm reasonably tall, I am not broad shouldered or anything, so I have to believe a lot of men in that era were bigger than I and needed a something larger than a 40".


----------



## WatchmanJimG

Fading Fast said:


> Good information. In your opinion, were the sizes then the equivalent of the sizes today? To wit, is a 40" chest then the same as a 40" chest today?
> 
> If so, it seems odd, as while I'm reasonably tall, I am not broad shouldered or anything, so I have to believe a lot of men in that era were bigger than I and needed a something larger than a 40".


I'm hardly an expert, but at least anecdotally one could conclude that on average men were much smaller 50-75 years ago. We also have those goofy insurance tables for an idea of what they considered an ideal height/weight ratio, and despite being in pretty good shape my entire life I don't think I have ever consistently adhered to Metropolitan Life Insurance standards.

I'm not sure a 40" chest measurement is different today than in the past, but I have observed that older garments appear to be cut based strictly on chest circumference without much consideration to the overarm measurement. This often requires one to go up a size when selecting a vintage garment.


----------



## Fading Fast

WatchmanJimG said:


> I'm hardly an expert, but at least anecdotally one could conclude that on average men were much smaller 50-75 years ago. We also have those goofy insurance tables for an idea of what they considered an ideal height/weight ratio, and despite being in pretty good shape my entire life I don't think I have ever consistently adhered to Metropolitan Life Insurance standards.
> 
> I'm not sure a 40" chest measurement is different today than in the past, but I have observed that older garments appear to be cut based strictly on chest circumference without much consideration to the overarm measurement. This often requires one to go up a size when selecting a vintage garment.


My Dad was born in 1924 (he was 40 yrs old when I was born - old for the time), was 6'4", 225lbs (+/- 10lbs depending on where he was in his up-down weight cycle) was broad shoulder and 50" chest. He was definitely the biggest by far of his friends (he had the same ones his entire life and met most of them in school), so maybe my view of "the era" is skewed as there is no way on earth he was fitting into a 40, 42, 44 or even a 46 (he did buy some 48s when they were cut large).


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39686


I love the allusion to Dumas in that tag line: Four-in-One--One for All! Clever. Maybe the chap in the picture is Monsieur D'Artagnan?


----------



## drpeter

WatchmanJimG said:


> Based on my experience collecting military uniforms from the WW2 era I can tell you that the overwhelming majority of coats range from 34-38; however, the occasional larger example is noted. One would think the coat in the advertisement could at least be had in Size 42 . . .


I have a question for you, @WatchmanJimG. I too have a small collection of US Army and Marine uniforms, from the fifties and sixties and a few more from modern times. I know that wearing field jackets like the M-43, M-51 or M-65 are pretty much OK even if one has not served in the US Military (I've only served in a paramilitary outfit in India, ages ago). When it comes to uniform jackets (the dressier ones usually worn with a shirt and tie, with four brass buttons for the front closure), are there any rules, and if so, what are they? I wonder if one could wear them like the field jackets, provided there are no decorations, medals or regimental flashes and shoulder titles on them (the last two are British/Indian terms, I'm not sure what these are called in the US), other than the brass buttons. They are lovely-looking jackets and go well with a nice pair of khakis or even flannel slacks. I apologize in advance if my question offends anyone, I know such topics are sensitive one, and I seek an answer out of great respect for these uniforms and the military branches they represent. Thanks for any information you might have.


----------



## WatchmanJimG

drpeter said:


> I have a question for you, @WatchmanJimG. I too have a small collection of US Army and Marine uniforms, from the fifties and sixties and a few more from modern times. I know that wearing field jackets like the M-43, M-51 or M-65 are pretty much OK even if one has not served in the US Military (I've only served in a paramilitary outfit in India, ages ago). When it comes to uniform jackets (the dressier ones usually worn with a shirt and tie, with four brass buttons for the front closure), are there any rules, and if so, what are they? I wonder if one could wear them like the field jackets, provided there are no decorations, medals or regimental flashes and shoulder titles on them (the last two are British/Indian terms, I'm not sure what these are called in the US), other than the brass buttons. They are lovely-looking jackets and go well with a nice pair of khakis or even flannel slacks. I apologize in advance if my question offends anyone, I know such topics are sensitive one, and I seek an answer out of great respect for these uniforms and the military branches they represent. Thanks for any information you might have.


There are conflicting opinions on this subject, and many believe that one somehow commits a crime by wearing military uniform items casually. In the majority of instances this is either patently false or unlikely to be prosecuted so I wouldn't worry so much about that. However, in my view wearing a dress uniform coat is a risky style move that not everyone can pull off. If you're comfortable with the way it looks on you that's all that really matters. This has certainly been done before, and in my opinion whether one has served in the military is irrelevant as these items are readily available to the public.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

WatchmanJimG said:


> There are conflicting opinions on this subject, and many believe that one somehow commits a crime by wearing military uniform items casually. In the majority of instances this is either patently false or unlikely to be prosecuted so I wouldn't worry so much about that. However, in my view wearing a dress uniform coat is a risky style move that not everyone can pull off. If you're comfortable with the way it looks on you that's all that really matters. This has certainly been done before, and in my opinion whether one has served in the military is irrelevant as these items are readily available to the public.


 Thanks very much indeed for your opinion on this matter. I think I'll test it out with friends and see what they think -- I do have a couple of friends of my age who actually served in the Army in Vietnam, and another younger friend, very close to me, who was a helicopter pilot for the US Navy during the first Gulf War, and who now flies for a Medical Emergency Flight company here in Wisconsin. On occasion, I do wear a US Navy issue peacoat I have, a beautiful American-made dark blue coat of thick wool. It has brass buttons with the US insignia/coat of arms on them. There are no other badges or flashes on it. No one has objected so far when I have worn this. Most people don't really notice the Service Issue buttons, and if they do, they seem to be OK with it. Thanks again, Jim.


----------



## ran23

I look forward to Winter to wear my WWII Navy issue PeaCoat. No one has ever commented on it.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39686


Great illustration, great style! :beer:


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39749


Hmm . . . . ?: :icon_scratch:


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## Flanderian




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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Hmm . . . . ?: :icon_scratch:


A very period-style sport coat - very Ivy - that has all but disappeared.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A very period-style sport coat - very Ivy - that has all but disappeared.


Ah, true! And very nice.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39749


The case was green, but the young man's typewriter looks quite like the old Smith Corona portable typewriter I used during my undergraduate years. I can remember typing a fair number of papers, using just my index fingers! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The case was green, but the young man's typewriter looks quite like the old Smith Corona portable typewriter I used during my undergraduate years. I can remember typing a fair number of papers, using just my index fingers! LOL.


My mom was a bookkeeper (remember those?) and she had an even earlier version (I think from the '30s) of a portable typewriter - big, black and heavy as heck - that she was still using into the '70s. I learned to type on it and the "home" (and larger) Remington, from the '20s or '30s.

I learned to type just for the reason you imply - I wanted to be able to bang through my school papers. The funny thing is, I graduate from college in '85 and, then, all but didn't type again until '97 when the Internet came into common use. The computers I used at work earlier where dedicated to financial work, but weren't what we think of when we think of computers today.

And as the saying goes, typing is like riding a bike. Despite my decade-plus hiatus, I picked right up where I left off - as a bad but adequate-for-my-needs typist.


----------



## Fading Fast

Neat ad.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

Love some of the details on his clothes like the button closure (or whatever it is really called) on the pants' back pocket and, also, his french cuffs. Even the drape of his suit is well captured and gives you the impression the suit is of a good quality.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39828





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39897
> 
> Love some of the details on his clothes like the button closure (or whatever it is really called) on the pants' back pocket and, also, his french cuffs. Even the drape of his suit is well captured and gives you the impression the suit is of a good quality.


Typically outstanding! 👏

The ad for a mohair suit brings back my limited familiarity with mohair, or more correctly, mohair blends from my youth.

Mohair cloth as been highly esteemed by tailors, and others, for its properties. And thought near ideal for summer. It certainly wrinkles very little, and maintains its crisp subtle sheen, but I've always found it both unduly warm and itchy. Perhaps I've not enjoyed the best varieties. Or maybe it's just me! :crazy:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Typically outstanding! 👏
> 
> The ad for a mohair suit brings back my limited familiarity with mohair, or more correctly, mohair blends from my youth.
> 
> Mohair cloth as been highly esteemed by tailors, and others, for its properties. And thought near ideal for summer. It certainly wrinkles very little, and maintains its crisp subtle sheen, but I've always found it both unduly warm and itchy. Perhaps I've not enjoyed the best varieties. Or maybe it's just me! :crazy:


Growing up in the '70s, a neighbor still owned a '47 Buick that had mohair seats (with leather trim) that I thought were nice, but he, like you, complained were itchy. I've never (or don't remember ever) encountering a mohair suit. And that car, it was bigger than my first apartment in NYC.


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## Fading Fast




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## WatchmanJimG

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39917


At first blush the thought of a polyester blend is repugnant, but during my school years I worked in mens' retail with a veteran of the Western NY clothing scene who regaled me with stories of the Hart Schaffner & Marx "Viracle" suit, which was constructed at least partially of synthetic fibers. He claimed it was an excellent product that served him well over many years. Then again, I imagine it was discontinued for a reason.


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## Flanderian

WatchmanJimG said:


> At first blush the thought of a polyester blend is repugnant, but during my school years I worked in mens' retail with a veteran of the Western NY clothing scene who regaled me with stories of the Hart Schaffner & Marx "Viracle" suit, which was constructed at least partially of synthetic fibers. He claimed it was an excellent product that served him well over many years. Then again, I imagine it was discontinued for a reason.


I grew up in the polyester era, and the one thing I know for certain is that there's currently a lot of misinformation about cloth that was made which incorporated it. Some of it was lousy, but some of it was quite nice and offered useful properties. Typically, better tailoring used cloth of better quality. I had some wool/poly suits in tropical weight which were a godsend for commuting on public transport in summer.

One of its more universal, and peculiar characteristics related to those unfortunates (Among which I then numbered. ) who smoked. While not visible while occurring, very tiny coals would fall from the tip of a cigarette, and after a season or two, a plethora of tiny pinholes would appear on the front of your jacket. 😭 Polyester melts, and a careless application of too hot an iron could provoke even more serious damage. Though of course, cloth made entirely of wool can scorch, which is just a bad.


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## Fading Fast

Might be a dupe from awhile back (have a vague memory), but what the heck, really nice suit and interesting that they paired it with brown loafers.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39963
> 
> Might be a dupe from awhile back (have a vague memory), but what the heck, really nice suit and interesting that they paired it with brown loafers.


Not to mention the lovely lady the fortunate gentleman is paired with...


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## drpeter

WatchmanJimG said:


> At first blush the thought of a polyester blend is repugnant, but during my school years I worked in mens' retail with a veteran of the Western NY clothing scene who regaled me with stories of the Hart Schaffner & Marx "Viracle" suit, which was constructed at least partially of synthetic fibers. He claimed it was an excellent product that served him well over many years. Then again, I imagine it was discontinued for a reason.


 I, too, had a bias against polyester for all the usual reasons. But lately, when other aspects of a blended garment -- cut, color, pattern, or hand -- are attractive, I've picked it up, especially while thrifting, when the cost of the garment is very small. I have OCBDs that have some amount of polyester fibre blended with cotton, and the ones I pick are the ones with more cotton than polyester. I have wool/poly blend trousers, which are very durable and comfortable in all seasons.

The mention of mohair (wool from the Angora goat) in this thread reminded me of another fabric that is both luxurious and elegant, and quite functional when blended with wool -- I'm thinking of silk. Silk shirts were often regarded as fine apparel. In the Bond books, 007 does sport cream-coloured silk shirts with his dark blue tropical worsted suits, a lovely combination. What's more, silk blended with wool makes a fine suiting that is especially appropriate for summer wear, even in oppressively hot climes. In tropical places like Malaya and India, tussore silk suits were once common, especially in the colonial period. Tussore silk is widely produced in India and is still used for saris, kurtas and other kinds of Indian clothing. A tussore-wool blend might be a decent alternative to wool/poly blends, but perhaps the cost might be high.


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## drpeter

ran23 said:


> I look forward to Winter to wear my WWII Navy issue PeaCoat. No one has ever commented on it.


That's the spirit! I wear mine these days, but it is of more recent vintage than yours.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Not to mention the lovely lady the fortunate gentleman is paired with...


Her slim arms and blondness didn't escape my notice.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I stumbled across this illustration - a Coke ad from 1957 - and thought it would be neat to attempt to get a thread going on illustrations of Ivy clothes (kinda like what Flanderian is doing with Vintage Esquire illustrations over on the other side of the house).
> 
> And, if not, this one with its OCBD, ski and V-neck sweaters, khakis, argyle socks and Weejuns is fun just by itself. Also, clearly, Coke wanted to position itself as cool, so this is more evidence that the cool kids of the '50s were dressing in Ivy.
> 
> Many years ago, I dated a blonde who said a black turtleneck is a blonde's best friend - no argument from me.
> 
> View attachment 26840


I think the color red also suits blondes very well. When it comes to colors, the most striking look I have seen is not from clothes, but from the body: A redhead with green eyes. Not all that common, and perhaps stunning for that very reason.


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## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> I, too, had a bias against polyester for all the usual reasons. But lately, when other aspects of a blended garment -- cut, color, pattern, or hand -- are attractive, I've picked it up, especially while thrifting, when the cost of the garment is very small. I have OCBDs that have some amount of polyester fibre blended with cotton, and the ones I pick are the ones with more cotton than polyester. I have wool/poly blend trousers, which are very durable and comfortable in all seasons.
> 
> The mention of mohair (wool from the Angora goat) in this thread reminded me of another fabric that is both luxurious and elegant, and quite functional when blended with wool -- I'm thinking of silk. Silk shirts were often regarded as fine apparel. In the Bond books, 007 does sport cream-coloured silk shirts with his dark blue tropical worsted suits, a lovely combination. What's more, silk blended with wool makes a fine suiting that is especially appropriate for summer wear, even in oppressively hot climes. In tropical places like Malaya and India, tussore silk suits were once common, especially in the colonial period. Tussore silk is widely produced in India and is still used for saris, kurtas and other kinds of Indian clothing. A tussore-wool blend might be a decent alternative to wool/poly blends, but perhaps the cost might be high.


I think you may have meant tussar silk rather than tussore. Tussar silk is silk made from silk worm cocoons collected in the wild rather than from cultivated worms that are raised on an exclusive diet of mulberry leaves. The silk that results is as lustrous as that from cultivation, but it has more texture (I.e., irregularities) which give cloth woven from the processed filament a less uniform, but more interesting texture for which it is prized. But due to those irregularities, I question whether spinning it in combination with wool fiber would result in yarn desirable for suiting.

I have had suits made from silk and wool tropical weight blends. And while the performance of the cloth in shedding wrinkles was indeed very similar to wool/poly, silk is actually a surprisingly warm filament. Of itself, a silk suit is not particularly cool. (Though you may look so wearing one! ) Other than linen or cotton, the coolest cloth I've experienced for hot conditions is very high quality tropical weight worsted. It's as comfortable as similar wool/poly, holds its press as well, but beats it all to heck for durability.

Reports from individuals in whom I have confidence have assured me that fine quality wool fresco is even cooler than tropical worsted, but I've not had the opportunity to enjoy any.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I think the color red also suits blondes very well. When it comes to colors, the most striking look I have seen is not from clothes, but from the body: A redhead with green eyes. Not all that common, and perhaps stunning for that very reason.


I believe Mr. Bruce Springsteen would agree with you.


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## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Her slim arms and blondness didn't escape my notice.


Let's not forget the libations.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 39963
> 
> Might be a dupe from awhile back (have a vague memory), but what the heck, really nice suit and interesting that they paired it with brown loafers.


A very handsome suit, a beautiful and comforting woman, and a contented man for sure, but whom among us has ever lounged in a chaise, while wearing our beloved suits? LOL. A very entertaining contribution...Thank you.


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## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> Let's not forget the libations.


And the two are not unrelated; the world would have fewer people on it if there was less alcohol in it.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A very handsome suit, a beautiful and comforting woman, and a contented man for sure, but whom among us has ever lounged in a chaise, while wearing our beloved suits? LOL. A very entertaining contribution...Thank you.


I was ten years away from being born, but people did seem to wear suits a lot more - and to some very casual events - in the '50s, so maybe? More asking than anything else. From TV shows and movies from the period, I'd say it's not farfetched, but TV shows and movies are what they are.


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## Fading Fast

Got this in a Brooks Brothers email this week - thought it was kinda neat:


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I was ten years away from being born, but people did seem to wear suits a lot more - and to some very casual events - in the '50s, so maybe? More asking than anything else. From TV shows and movies from the period, I'd say it's not farfetched, but TV shows and movies are what they are.


You're most definitely correct, wearing suits was far more common.

Suits were commonly worn to significant sporting events, on airline flights, for doctor's appointments, church, going into town, and many other occasions.


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## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> I think you may have meant tussar silk rather than tussore. Tussar silk is silk made from silk worm cocoons collected in the wild rather than from cultivated worms that are raised on an exclusive diet of mulberry leaves. The silk that results is as lustrous as that from cultivation, but it has more texture (I.e., irregularities) which give cloth woven from the processed filament a less uniform, but more interesting texture for which it is prized. But due to those irregularities, I question whether spinning it in combination with wool fiber would result in yarn desirable for suiting.
> 
> I have had suits made from silk and wool tropical weight blends. And while the performance of the cloth in shedding wrinkles was indeed very similar to wool/poly, silk is actually a surprisingly warm filament. Of itself, a silk suit is not particularly cool. (Though you may look so wearing one! ) Other than linen or cotton, the coolest cloth I've experienced for hot conditions is very high quality tropical weight worsted. It's as comfortable as similar wool/poly, holds its press as well, but beats it all to heck for durability.
> 
> Reports from individuals in whom I have confidence have assured me that fine quality wool fresco is even cooler than tropical worsted, but I've not had the opportunity to enjoy any.


Yes, I knew that the contemporary spelling is tussar, but the old (colonial, perhaps?) style of spelling had the word spelled the way I did. I suppose I'm old enough to sport the occasional anachronism, and it might reveal my own colonial background, LOL. But wait, there's more! _Tussah_, and even _tusseh_. Here are some variants:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/tussore
I've never worn a suit made of wool and silk, although I have a couple of summer sports jackets made of silk (perhaps one with silk and linen). They seem comfortable enough to me in Wisconsin summers, but perhaps in a warmer clime they might become a bit oppressive. I agree that a fine tropical worsted is very good, and fresco (which I have never worn) might be even better.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I believe Mr. Bruce Springsteen would agree with you.


I would be deeply honoured if Mr Springsteen agreed with me. That said, I'll reveal my ignorance of modern popular music (that is, anything after the Beatles, Dexter Gordon and Nat King Cole), and humbly ask if Mr Springsteen expressed admiration for green-eyed redheads (or blondes wearing red) in one of his compositions.


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## Fading Fast

Note what looks like grey wool trousers with white bucks , possibly the first style norm I'd bring back from the Ivy era if I could (but I seem to have no power to time travel and bring looks forward from the past).


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## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Yes, I knew that the contemporary spelling is tussar, but the old (colonial, perhaps?) style of spelling had the word spelled the way I did. I suppose I'm old enough to sport the occasional anachronism, and it might reveal my own colonial background, LOL. But wait, there's more! _Tussah_, and even _tusseh_. Here are some variants:
> 
> https://www.thefreedictionary.com/tussore


Thank you for this, terms can be elusive. I was unaware of the more complex usage and derivation of the various terms. Some sources even describe such silk as even deriving from a specific species of moth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antheraea_mylitta


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## FiscalDean

drpeter said:


> I would be deeply honoured if Mr Springsteen agreed with me. That said, I'll reveal my ignorance of modern popular music (that is, anything after the Beatles, Dexter Gordon and Nat King Cole), and humbly ask if Mr Springsteen expressed admiration for green-eyed redheads (or blondes wearing red) in one of his compositions.


You may want to google the lyrics for "Red Headed Woman"


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I would be deeply honoured if Mr Springsteen agreed with me. That said, I'll reveal my ignorance of modern popular music (that is, anything after the Beatles, Dexter Gordon and Nat King Cole), and humbly ask if Mr Springsteen expressed admiration for green-eyed redheads (or blondes wearing red) in one of his compositions.







*Red Headed Woman*

Bruce Springsteen

Well brunettes are fine man
And blondes are fun
But when it comes to getting the dirty job done
I'll take a red headed woman
A red headed woman
It takes a red headed woman
To get a dirty job done
Well listen up stud
Your life's been wasted
'Til you've got down on your knees and tasted
A red headed woman
A red headed woman
It takes a red headed woman
To get a dirty job done
Tight skirt, strawberry hair
Tell me what you've got baby, waiting under there
Big green eyes that look like, son
They can see every cheap thing that you ever done
Well I don't care how many girls you've dated, man
But you ain't lived 'til you've had your tires rotated
By a red headed woman
A red headed woman
It takes a red headed woman
To get a dirty job done

Source: 
Songwriters: Bruce Springsteen
Red Headed Woman lyrics © Downtown Music Publishing


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## Fading Fast




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## Captain America

Flanderian said:


> You're most definitely correct, wearing suits was far more common.
> 
> Suits were commonly worn to significant sporting events, on airline flights, for doctor's appointments, church, going into town, and many other occasions.


I'm actually working to help bring this back. We need more adults in society.


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## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Thank you for this, terms can be elusive. I was unaware of the more complex usage and derivation of the various terms. Some sources even describe such silk as even deriving from a specific species of moth.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antheraea_mylitta


Fascinating! I had no idea so many of those moths were to be found in India. Thanks for the link, Flanderian.


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## drpeter

FiscalDean said:


> You may want to google the lyrics for "Red Headed Woman"


Thanks, @FiscalDean. In fact, I did and found the same song that @Fading Fast posted. A nice song!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> *Red Headed Woman*
> 
> Bruce Springsteen
> 
> Well brunettes are fine man
> And blondes are fun
> But when it comes to getting the dirty job done
> I'll take a red headed woman
> A red headed woman
> It takes a red headed woman
> To get a dirty job done
> Well listen up stud
> Your life's been wasted
> 'Til you've got down on your knees and tasted
> A red headed woman
> A red headed woman
> It takes a red headed woman
> To get a dirty job done
> Tight skirt, strawberry hair
> Tell me what you've got baby, waiting under there
> Big green eyes that look like, son
> They can see every cheap thing that you ever done
> Well I don't care how many girls you've dated, man
> But you ain't lived 'til you've had your tires rotated
> By a red headed woman
> A red headed woman
> It takes a red headed woman
> To get a dirty job done
> 
> Source:
> Songwriters: Bruce Springsteen
> Red Headed Woman lyrics © Downtown Music Publishing


It may be interesting to note that Bruce Sprigsteen is married to a former Red Headed back-up singer in his band, named Patti Scialfa. They have been married 28 years. Just something to noodle over.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> It may be interesting to note that Bruce Sprigsteen is married to a former Red Headed back-up singer in his band, named Patti Scialfa. They have been married 28 years. Just something to noodle over.


Although, there were some strong rumors (and evidence) that he did have an affair about 15 years ago, but his marriage to Scialfa survived. And for a rock star, if all he did was rack up one affair in 28 years of marriage, he's doing much better than most of his peers. It does seem, from all accounts, that Scailfa and the Boss really were born to run together.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 40169


Nice! :beer:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Nice! :beer:


I thought it was pretty cool to - impressive way the artist capture Donegal Tweed.


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## Fading Fast




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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 40199


Scenes of my youth! 

(Forced labor 😭)


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## Flanderian

Sorry, realize it's a photo, but am hoping for a special dispensation for this vintage gem!


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Sorry, realize it's a photo, but am hoping for a special dispensation for this vintage gem!
> 
> View attachment 40224


So granted.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> So granted.
> View attachment 40225


Ahh . . . !! That felt good! :icon_saint7kg:


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## Flanderian

The other side of the '50's, the "Continental Style" via Eagle Suits. Note 1 1/2" peak lapel, 1" tie and slanted besom pockets.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> The other side of the '50's, the "Continental Style" via Eagle Suits. Note 1 1/2" peak lapel, 1" tie and slanted besom pockets.
> 
> View attachment 40235


The lapel feels a bit funny to me, but that may just be because I'm not used to it. I love that style of tie - a simple design in the center versus a repeating pattern.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Sorry, realize it's a photo, but am hoping for a special dispensation for this vintage gem!
> 
> View attachment 40224


The sweater? Or the lovely bowtie?


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 40246


The picture above is a classic in so many different way...clothing, relationships, dining out and the list goes on and on. I do hope that dapperly clad gentleman enjoys that double fudge chocolate lava cake that we witness him digging into, because he is surely going to pay for it after the lovely couple leaves the diner! LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The picture above is a classic in so many different way...clothing, relationships, dining out and the list goes on and on. I do hope that dapperly clad gentleman enjoys that double fudge chocolate lava cake that we witness him digging into, because he is surely going to pay for it after the lovely couple leaves the diner! LOL.


I thought so too. I've seen pics of my mother's family from the '40s and '50s that look just like that. Being straight, the family was poor, but they wore clothes like that when they went out because that was what their generation did. I'm also pretty sure I've seen (it's in AZ with my mom if it still exists) a pic of my mom's mom standing in front a Schrafft's restaurant (modest priced places with counter service) looking very much like the woman in the pic (hat, etc.).


----------



## Flanderian

1957 -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Good stuff.

⇩ Note his pin or tab collar


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Good stuff.
> 
> ⇩ Note his pin or tab collar
> View attachment 40280


Very cool! Thanks! :beer:


----------



## Flanderian

Wonder what's on his mind?


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## Fading Fast

⇧ Really good pin collar.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Really good pin collar.


Used to have some like that myself 55+ years ago. 😢

Looks like a collar bar with the screw on and off ends. Typically a little ball, or cube, in gold or silver.

Edit: There we go!


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Used to have some like that myself 55+ years ago. 😢
> 
> Looks like a collar bar with the screw on and off ends. Typically a little ball, or cube, in gold or silver.
> 
> Edit: There we go!
> 
> View attachment 40309


I still have three - all from Eton shirts. Really well done efforts, but sadly, I hardly have any reason to wear them anymore as, even though my business is (thankfully) doing well, it requires few in person meetings and, when it does, most are biz causal or all casual. Wall Street ain't at all what it once was.


----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian said:


> Wonder what's on his mind?
> 
> View attachment 40289


Or her's . . .


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## Fading Fast

Note the belted-back dress trousers. I have a pair of BB Black Fleece from years ago that have one, but it's hard detail to find today, especially in a dress trouser.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I still have three - all from Eton shirts. Really well done efforts, but sadly, I hardly have any reason to wear them anymore as, even though my business is (thankfully) doing well, it requires few in person meetings and, when it does, most are biz causal or all casual. Wall Street ain't at all what it once was.


Dress up, stick your collar bar on, and walk into the bar of a fine old Manhattan hotel and order a negroni! Just lean back and feel the ages flowing through you. :icon_saint7kg:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Dress up, stick your collar bar on, and walk into the bar of a fine old Manhattan hotel and order a negroni! Just lean back and feel the ages flowing through you. :icon_saint7kg:


I appreciate the guidance - sincerely. Owing to our parents declining health, SGF and I haven't been hitting the upscale or other bars as much as we used to - when we get free time, we normally just happily hang out at home and recharge our batteries. But even when we go to the nicer bars, the dress is inconsistent at best: jeans and T-shirts at one table, polo shirts and khakis at the next and, maybe, every tenth table a suit and tie (usually on a guy >60 or even 70).

I could absolutely do it, but to be honest, I don't get a ton of joy out of dressing up at 5pm to wear a suit to a bar for an hour or two and, if we aren't going to diner afterwards, come home and take said suit off. It feels off or forced or silly or something to me. If the next guy enjoys doing so, then he should go for it, it just doesn't really work for me.

Work use to have me dressed up almost every day of the week, so "meeting for a drink afterwards" meant I was already dressed. Now, if I get dressed to go to a bar, it's a specific effort and, as noted, maybe ten or twenty percent of the bar will be similarly attired and the rest dressed down from there. And most of the people I meet are biz casual or casual, so if meeting them for a drink, I'd be the only guy in a suit and tie. It just doesn't work for me.

In the list of real problems, this one doesn't make the list. I'm really glad I lived through a time when people still did, for the most part, dress for work and going out, but I think that time has almost past.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> or even 70.


Heavens, forbid!!! :happy:

I'm sorry to learn of your respective parents' concerns . . . . my suggestion was as much tongue-in-cheek as intended dictum. Your time spent with them is well spent, indeed!



Fading Fast said:


> I could absolutely do it, but to be honest, I don't get a ton of joy out of dressing up at 5pm to wear a suit to a bar for an hour or two and, if we aren't going to diner afterwards, come home and take said suit off. It feels off or forced or silly or something to me. If the next guy enjoys doing so, then he should go for it, it just doesn't really work for me.
> 
> Work use to have me dressed up almost every day of the week, so "meeting for a drink afterwards" meant I was already dressed. Now, if I get dressed to go to a bar, it's a specific effort and, as noted, maybe ten or twenty percent of the bar will be similarly attired and the rest dressed down from there. And most of the people I meet are biz casual or casual, so if meeting them for a drink, I'd be the only guy in a suit and tie. It just doesn't work for me.
> 
> In the list of real problems, this one doesn't make the list. I'm really glad I lived through a time when people still did, for the most part, dress for work and going out, but I think that time has almost past.


I fear you may be correct!

I too once thought of suits as corporate livery, which is perhaps why since my manumission I have striven to leave no doubt when donning a tie that my dress not be confused with such! :devil:


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

So let's see, the Ivy-clad obnoxious husband who condescendingly bought his wife a really cool new car elicited no response, nor did the also-Ivy-clad '50s dad dropping his kid in khaki shorts standing with a khaki-clad counselor off at summer camp; hence, I'm going harder slim '60s (my guess) Ivy today to see if I can spark some interest from this clearly jaded (been there, seen that) crowd.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 40353


Great illustration and a rare auto!

One of Americas first compact cars of that era. Good performing, I've never driven or ridden in one. Willys Overland got purchased by Kaiser not soon after. The Henry J model reminded me of sitting a steel tub with an engine.


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## Flanderian

1956 -


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 40469


Great advertisement! The last time I bought a six pack of bottled Coke for the family was when Coca-Cola put out a batch commemorating Penn States 1986 Natl. Football Championship. I still have one of those bottles sitting on display in a bookcase. I will have to get a picture of it and post it. 










....and the deed is done!


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> View attachment 40476
> 
> 
> ....and the deed is done!


Excuse me, but when you moved your a** outta Indiana and down to Republicanville, you bothered to take that thing with you?

Hoarding lives on, disguised as dedication. Admirable.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 40534


 You could cross post to the Tweed thread.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 40469


Cool!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Other than his (I think it's an) ascot, he's got a very trad casual look going comprised of a (I think it's a) popover shirt, chinos (sans belt), white athletic socks and canvas sneakers.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 40606
> 
> Other than his (I think it's an) ascot, he's got a very trad casual look going comprised of a (I think it's a) popover shirt, chinos (sans belt), white athletic socks and canvas sneakers.


It's always a good thing to work together at maintaining one's nest! Great illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast

IMO, he's wearing the iconic Ivy tie.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Love the shoulders on the sport coat.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love the shoulders on the sport coat.
> 
> View attachment 40694


A great illustration. No bumps...no lumps? Boy I wish my suit jackets hung so well on me!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration. No bumps...no lumps? Boy I wish my suit jackets hung so well on me!


First, I'd have to have the bumps and lumps removed from my body, then I'd have a fighting chance to get my suit jackets to fit like that.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 40704


Nice outfit, even nicer artistic skills.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

I'm going to give these TV guide sketches another shot


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I'm going to give these TV guide sketches another shot
> View attachment 40797


I think perhaps your past offerings have spoiled us, conditioning our eyes to look for those that require less concentration to discern additional detail. These penciled sketches require one to take a more focused look to assess the intent of the artist! So many have been spoiled by this 'throw away' society we live in.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I think perhaps your past offerings have spoiled us, conditioning our eyes to look for those that require less concentration to discern additional detail. These penciled sketches require one to take a more focused look to assess the intent of the artist! So many have been spoiled by this 'throw away' society we live in.


Good point. To be sure, for initial punch, the color "Apparel Arts" ones like @Oldsarge put up a couple of posts above are more impactful, but I love the way the artist captured so much of the look and "feel" of the trad clothing we love with nothing more than charcoal, paper and skill.

To be sure, I grew up when most business men (and men over 40, in general) still dressed that way, so these illustrations really sing to me. For many men over 40 back then, wearing suit pants, a button-front, collared shirt without a tie and pennies was dressing casual.


----------



## Fading Fast

One more - inspired by @eagle2250's support - then we'll return to our regularly scheduled programming.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Wonderful. My guess, white "summer" flannels.

And speaking of wool:


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> One more - inspired by @eagle2250's support - then we'll return to our regularly scheduled programming.
> View attachment 40843


What I love about these drawings is the skill of the artist. They are beautifully constructed, with such careful attention to detail.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ All those "Esquire," "Apparel Arts," "Gentleman's Gazette" pics from the '30s - '40s are insane - especially the ones by Fellows. Knowing what air travel is like today, you have to chuckle at the footrest.

@Flanderian ran a thread of just the Esquire ones over on the Fashion side of the house that's a joy to go through now and then. The thread is here: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/threads/vintage-esquire-illustrations-alpha-to.240205/

Also, while not cheap (good used copies go for ~$100), "Men in Style: The Golden Age of Fashion from Esquire" from Rizzoli is has a nice collection of them.

You can flip through the entire book for free online here: https://www.archive.org/stream/meninstylegolden00hochrich#page/n1/mode/2up

Wouldn't life be elegant if it looked like those pics?


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Knowing what air travel is like today, you have to chuckle at the footrest.
> Wouldn't life be elegant if it looked like those pics?


I just want to be able to fly like that.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> I just want to be able to fly like that.


Heck, I just want one suit to fit me one time like that.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Color 8

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 40968


I need to travel by Luxury Dirigible in the worst way


----------



## Oldsarge

Its day may return, I keep reading. And if it does . . .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> Its day may return, I keep reading. And if it does . . .


Oh the humanity.


----------



## Oldsarge

Helium, Peaky, helium!


----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> Its day may return, I keep reading. And if it does . . .


The mess jacket was abandoned as evening mufti after men wearing one were repeatedly approached by other guests attempting to place a drink order!


----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian, my man, that was referring to dirigible travel. You're in the wrong post. 😁


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm all for us taking another run at dirigible travel as I'd like to see if I could add it to the, current, list-of-one travel modes (trains) that do not make me nauseous.

It's probably been long enough since this:









to try again so that we can get back to this:
















sans the horror of the nazis this time.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> I'm all for us taking another run at dirigible travel as I'd like to see if I could add it to the, current, list-of-one travel modes (trains) that do not make me nauseous.
> 
> It's probably been long enough since this:
> View attachment 41018
> 
> 
> to try again so that we can get back to this:
> View attachment 41019
> 
> View attachment 41020
> 
> sans the horror of the nazis this time.


And the hydrogen.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Peak and Pine said:


> Oh the humanity.





Oldsarge said:


> Helium, Peaky, helium!


The top quote refers to the crash in Jersey in '37. There's famous audio that accompanies it. But (I think) you probably knew that. ('Cause you're The Sarge!)


----------



## Oldsarge

an' 'cause I'm old! 😁


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm all for us taking another run at dirigible travel as I'd like to see if I could add it to the, current, list-of-one travel modes (trains) that do not make me nauseous.
> 
> It's probably been long enough since this:
> View attachment 41018
> 
> 
> to try again so that we can get back to this:
> View attachment 41019
> 
> View attachment 41020
> 
> sans the horror of the nazis this time.


Thanks for the very, very cool photos! :loveyou:

I'm with you on the pleasurable and civilized mode of aerial transport, contrasted to the aluminum walled cattle cars in which we now travel. 

For more than a decade I was a resident of western Essex county in NJ, and for a couple of years the Goodyear blimp fleet used to engage in training above and around my municipality. And it became a common sight to spot one in the distance, while another might sail over the ridge line a few hundred feet above my head! :icon_saint7kg:


----------



## New Old Stock

Now would be the time for the blimp 'airlines'(?) to make their move, seeing as no ones ever getting on a cruise ship again! Their target market of 'people who dont mind taking 8 days to get across the Atlantic' is there for the taking.


----------



## Oldsarge

Seventy-three mph seems plenty fast enough to me.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Thanks for the very, very cool photos! :loveyou:
> 
> I'm with you on the pleasurable and civilized mode of aerial transport, contrasted to the aluminum walled cattle cars in which we now travel.
> 
> For more than a decade I was a resident of western Essex county in NJ, and for a couple of years the Goodyear blimp fleet used to engage in training above and around my municipality. And it became a common sight to spot one in the distance, while another might sail over the ridge line a few hundred feet above my head! :icon_saint7kg:


There's something pleasant about seeing a blimp in the air going about its business. In our ever faster world, it's nice to see something not seemingly in a hurry.



New Old Stock said:


> Now would be the time for the blimp 'airlines'(?) to make their move, seeing as no ones ever getting on a cruise ship again! Their target market of 'people who dont mind taking 8 days to get across the Atlantic' is there for the taking.


I hear ya - and I'm all for giving it a shot - but aren't blimps basically flying cruise ships from an epidemiology perspective?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ...........................................................
> 
> I hear ya - and I'm all for giving it a shot - but aren't blimps basically flying cruise ships from an epidemiology perspective?


Sort of like those "Park and Ride" train services....you park your car on a flatbed car of the train and spend your travel hours in a passenger/sleeper car and/or lounge/dining car. A "snowbird" couple we know uses this type of rail service to travel to and from Florida, for the winter months! But alas, she tells us the railways plan to eventually discontinue the dining service and limit same to sandwiches in the lounge cars and or meals at food vendors in the various stations at which the trains stop.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Sort of like those "Park and Ride" train services....you park your car on a flatbed car of the train and spend your travel hours in a passenger/sleeper car and/or lounge/dining car. A "snowbird" couple we know uses this type of rail service to travel to and from Florida, for the winter months! But alas, she tells us the railways plan to eventually discontinue the dining service and limit same to sandwiches in the lounge cars and or meals at food vendors in the various stations at which the trains stop.


Unfortunately, that's been a trend on Amtrak for years. We've taken Amtrak up to Saratoga (from NYC) for a long time and, about five years or so ago, the "dining car," which was really a dining pick-up counter with tables you could sit at (and clean off the crumbs from the previous diner) after you got your food moved from cooking/preparing a limited menu - eggs, sandwiches, etc. - to pretty much all pre-packaged food.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Note how the mirror image of the gentleman mopping his hat has aged, sorta like a reverse Dorian Gray.


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> 
> Note how the mirror image of the gentleman mopping his hat has aged, sorta like a reverse Dorian Gray.


Good catch, it's one of my favorite soul-selling stories of all time. Based on the way I've aged in real life, my guess is that there's a portrait of me in a castle somewhere that never ages.

Clearly, the drawing is from the '20s or '30s (date gets fuzzy when I expand), but I really like the way the illustrator shows the clothes draping - well done stuff.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> There's something pleasant about seeing a blimp in the air going about its business. In our ever faster world, it's nice to see something not seemingly in a hurry.


It can even be awe inspiring. I lived on a tree lined street that was on the gentle downslope perhaps a 1/2 mile from the peak of a ridge. The engines on the blimp aren't very loud, but because it moves comparatively slowly, you often hear one for quite a while before it eventually appears. And so it was on a lovely clear spring day with bright blue skies. I was in front of my home when I first heard the engines and began scanning the skies. And for what seemed like a long time, the sound gradually grew louder, when looking at the tree line about 100 yards upslope, a huge shape suddenly emerged above them with the blimp only a couple of hundred feet in the air with the sun shining brightly upon it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> It can even be awe inspiring. I lived on a tree lined street that was on the gentle downslope perhaps a 1/2 mile from the peak of a ridge. The engines on the blimp aren't very loud, but because it moves comparatively slowly, you often hear one for quite a while before it eventually appears. And so it was on a lovely clear spring day with bright blue skies. I was in front of my home when I first heard the engines and began scanning the skies. And for what seemed like a long time, the sound gradually grew louder, when looking at the tree line about 100 yards upslope, a huge shape suddenly emerged above them with the blimp only a couple of hundred feet in the air with the sun shining brightly upon it.


Well written as I could see and feel it from your description.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Well written as I could see and feel it from your description.


Thank you!

At my age, cogency is always a welcome outcome.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 41068


In fantasy land, the first thing I want is, well, the girl, the second, the boat and, then, if I even care at that point, as I'm cruising the water with my beautiful companion, I'll see if I want any of the guys' clothes (who are back on shore as they were not invited to join my lady and me on our cruise).


----------



## Fading Fast

Not '50s and not an illustration, but thought I could tuck it in here as a sartorial lagniappe:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41098
> 
> 
> Not '50s and not an illustration, but thought I could tuck it in here as a sartorial lagniappe:
> View attachment 41099


It's been 45 years since I've seen one of those kidney shaped writing desks in the wild. I was calling Whiteman AFB, MO home at the time and one of my fellow crew members fancying himself to be an 'interior decorator' in waiting and a Combat Crew member for the moment, tried to convince me that this antique kidney desk he had would be the perfect complement to my card table and folding chair dining room furniture, in an almost empty apartment. At his $600 asking price, he claimed I was getting one helluva deal. However, considering that my beloved Dodge Challenger was, at the time, the only possession I could claim that cost anywhere near that amount, I less than politely informed this buddy(?) of mine to "Take that desk and shove it, and don't darken my door no more...!" LOL. 

PS: Thanks for that bonus or extra gift!


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Good stuff


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> I just want to be able to fly like that.


These days, people wear sweatsuits, shorts and T shirts on airplanes. DBs are rather thin in the air.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> These days, people wear sweatsuits, shorts and T shirts on airplanes. DBs are rather thin in the air.


Given the disrespect with which the airlines treat passengers, why wouldn't they return the 'favor'?


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Given the disrespect with which the airlines treat passengers, why wouldn't they return the 'favor'?


I thought people used to dress well in airplanes out of respect _for each other_, not for the airlines. Besides, most of the people inside the airplane are fellow travellers, aren't they? So, from that perspective, those who dress poorly might not be showing the disrespect they intend to the right audience, except perhaps a few flight attendants. And I rather like most flight attendants who are trying to do a difficult job with composure and consideration -- for the most part, I'm sure there are exceptions. Anyway, I haven't flown in years, so I may be wrong on all this.


----------



## Oldsarge

In today's airliners, and I fly rather regularly, one can only _attempt_ to be as comfortable as possible. Even in Business Class things are not what they were only five or six years ago. I'm not a terribly big guy but the last time I flew to Italy, when I tried to recline the BizClas seat so I could sleep, my shoulders didn't fit between the sides of the seat! We fly in the equivalent of pajamas out of desperation, IMO.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41198


A very effective marketing illustration...it has convinced me that I really, really need a sport coat like the one the gentleman sitting on the hand rail is wearing!


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> A very effective marketing illustration...it has convinced me that I really, really need a sport coat like the one the gentleman sitting on the hand rail is wearing!


In a light weight silk, given your clime?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41279


These might work for the tweed thread too!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41279


A uniquely timely illustration, for this day! Thanks.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> In today's airliners, and I fly rather regularly, one can only _attempt_ to be as comfortable as possible. Even in Business Class things are not what they were only five or six years ago. I'm not a terribly big guy but the last time I flew to Italy, when I tried to recline the BizClas seat so I could sleep, my shoulders didn't fit between the sides of the seat! We fly in the equivalent of pajamas out of desperation, IMO.


Well said! That is one airlines policy that I really have trouble with -- the shrinking seats. I am smaller than average for an American (5'-8", 150 lbs) and I have an extraordinarily hard time fitting into economy class seats. Besides, I have some neuropathy in my feet that prevents me from sitting for long in those seats. If I have to fly again, I will probably have to go Business Class. Or at least, that was my plan until I read your message about the shrinking BizClass seats, @Oldsarge!

The positive side: I travelled all over the world in my youth and middle age, so I don't see any urgent reason to light off to distant parts. Also, since I am retired, I don't need to go to scientific (or any other) meetings, so any travel I do is strictly for fun. In my youth, a lot of travelling was in trains and ships, both very civilized and relatively comfortable ways of travelling. It's nice to spend time getting to your destination because the journey is important. (The Greek poet CP Cavafy has a great poem about this called _Ithaca_). I fantasize especially about sea journeys -- I have always loved the sea, grew up near tropical coasts, and have never had a seasick day despite ocean crossings in the Indian Ocean and sailing around the Galapagos in the Pacific.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> These might work for the tweed thread too!
> 
> View attachment 41304
> 
> 
> View attachment 41305
> 
> 
> View attachment 41306


Happy St Paddy's Day!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Ah, for the days when they let you wander around right on the Tarmac, with no security and whirring propeller blades ready to cut your face off.


----------



## New Old Stock

Nothing a propeller helmet couldn't handle!


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> 
> Ah, for the days when they let you wander around right on the Tarmac, with no security and whirring propeller blades ready to cut your face off.


And when the plane takes off, you could saunter through the fog, and say to your friend, "Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship". _Zut alors!_


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^
Wow. That's a two-fer. Great illustration and great advice (wish that wheel could be spun.)


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41358


Good recommendations! And for shoes? I'd suggest cordovan leather wingtips by Florsheim (or even, daringly, those gunboats of yesterday), with that beautiful patina and rippled vamps acquired over time. It's possible the illustration shows a captoe oxford, although I have not seen a bowed design (the one on the gentleman's right leg) on oxfords.


----------



## Oldsarge

Well, I don't like the shirt but the rest of the outfit is top drawer.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

Since yesterday's illustration seemed to be enjoyed, over the next few days, I'm going to post two or three more from that series (depends on how many I can find) - some have been posted before, but a long time ago.


----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 41387


Which one is me!? :laughing:


----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian said:


> Which one is me!? :laughing:


I was thinking the guy in the hat . . .


----------



## Fading Fast

One more from the series.


----------



## Fading Fast

Sunday bonus pic, her dress is quintissential '50s.


----------



## Peak and Pine

The top pic, 1920s, wonderful. Especially the hair cuts. And the chairs. _Bank of England_ chairs. Left mine in DC years ago. Damn.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41558
> 
> 
> Sunday bonus pic, her dress is quintissential '50s.
> View attachment 41559


The first picture could be captioned ... 'Twins, but skin deep' and why-oh-why is the guy in the Classic Trench wearing gloves sitting in a "Bank of England chair", indoors? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

Gentlemen, this is a pic of my office chair taken a few minutes ago.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Cool beyond words. At first I thought yours had spindle rails, then realized those belonged to something else. I had reworked the chairs I left In DC, stripped and made the seat, back and arms a deep rosewood, the slats honey. I like to rework stuff, 'specially clothes. While some may think the BoE chairs would be uncomfy, including their creator, he/she nicely thought to carve in cheek depressions in the seat.


----------



## Fading Fast

The chair is, as you note, surprisingly comfortable as, as we'd say today, it was smartly ergonomically designed. I can sit in it for hours (and do daily) without an issue.


----------



## Fading Fast

This is the last one (that I could find) in the series:


----------



## drpeter

I, for one, would love to have a briefcase of the kind sitting on the floor next to the chap on the right. Either in burgundy or British tan. I have several briefcases that come close, including a nice English one from Tusting with a wonderful patina, but nothing quite like the slim, twin-strap version with accordion sides. One of these days...


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I, for one, would love to have a briefcase of the kind sitting on the floor next to the chap on the right. Either in burgundy or British tan. I have several briefcases that come close, including a nice English one from Tusting with a wonderful patina, but nothing quite like the slim, twin-strap version with accordion sides. One of these days...


Custom Hides would be more than happy to sell you one of their 1945 US Army Classic Briefcases. Several of us herein have succumbed to the lure of these beauties!


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Custom Hides would be more than happy to sell you one of their 1945 US Army Classic Briefcases. Several of us herein have succumbed to the lure of these beauties!


They are lovely but some of us don't have anything to carry in one. Pity . . .


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Custom Hides would be more than happy to sell you one of their 1945 US Army Classic Briefcases. Several of us herein have succumbed to the lure of these beauties!


I have an unused briefcase in my closet - this Mulholland Brothers model:










and, still, I want that 1945 one in whiskey.

Clearly, I can't justify it and won't buy it, but if I was even close to being in the market, that would be the one.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> They are lovely but some of us don't have anything to carry in one. Pity . . .


I use mine to carry the electronic toys and their attachments, the use of which I have not fully mastered, as yet! It is the 1945 Army design, featuring expanded girth and a laptop sleeve. Rumor has it that it even has an interior holster for a large frame pistol....but I'll never tell.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Custom Hides would be more than happy to sell you one of their 1945 US Army Classic Briefcases. Several of us herein have succumbed to the lure of these beauties!


Thanks, @eagle2250, I will look into it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Clearly, the cars are the stars in these ads (and cool cars they are), but if you look closely, there is some neat classic mens attire peeking through.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Clearly, the cars are the stars in these ads (and cool cars they are), but if you look closely, there is some neat classic mens attire peeking through.
> View attachment 41671
> View attachment 41672


Back then gas was just 26 cents a gallon, but I don't think those old jeeps were all that stingy with gas.In fact, from what I remember, they were always pretty thirsty! :icon_scratch:


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Back then gas was just 26 cents a gallon, but I don't think those old jeeps were all that stingy with gas.In fact, from what I remember, they were always pretty thirsty! :icon_scratch:


And a neighbor of mine down in SoCal had one of those Jeep wagons that he re-engined with a Chevy V-8. I tried so hard to get him to sell it to me . . .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41706


My favorite colors...blue and white. A rather artistic, but arguably gauzy expression of a recreational lifestyle. I do like the illustration, but egads, I'm not sure why. Perhaps thei self isolation is getting to me? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> My favorite colors...blue and white. A rather artistic, but arguably gauzy expression of a recreational lifestyle. I do like the illustration, but egads, I'm not sure why. Perhaps thei self isolation is getting to me? :icon_scratch:


Maybe, like you, I'm getting stir-crazy, but I, too, really like this one artistically - I love how much the artist expresses with so little.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another day of "high-art"


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Another day of "high-art"
> View attachment 41785


That is a really well-made advert. While far from identical, something about the style, and the dark, thick lines employed by the artist, remind me strongly of the German Expressionist painter Max Beckmann, one of Hitler's "degenerate artists" who had to flee Germany during the Nazi era. He went to Amsterdam and then ended up in St Louis and taught painting at Washington University for a while. Beckmann is a great favourite of mine, and I have a number of books about him, and reproductions of many of his great paintings, some of them framed on my walls. My prize reproduction is the photographed poster I had made of his masterpiece, _The Harbour of Genoa_ (1927). The Art Museum in St Louis had a wonderful young curator who responded to my request, and made a 1/4 size poster of the painting which hangs in their extensive collection of Beckmann paintings and drawings. I had it framed and labelled with a simple black frame that is perfect for it, and it hangs in my living room wall, with nothing else on that entire wall. So here is that painting, which has always appealed to me at so many levels. The painting has to be seen in a larger size in order to feel its full impact, but you get the idea of it from this copy:

https://www.slam.org/collection/objects/13430/


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> That is a really well-made advert. While far from identical, something about the style, and the dark, thick lines employed by the artist, remind me strongly of the German Expressionist painter Max Beckmann, one of Hitler's "degenerate artists" who had to flee Germany during the Nazi era. He went to Amsterdam and then ended up in St Louis and taught painting at Washington University for a while. Beckmann is a great favourite of mine, and I have a number of books about him, and reproductions of many of his great paintings, some of them framed on my walls. My prize reproduction is the photographed poster I had made of his masterpiece, _The Harbour of Genoa_ (1927). The Art Museum in St Louis had a wonderful young curator who responded to my request, and made a 1/4 size poster of the painting which hangs in their extensive collection of Beckmann paintings and drawings. I had it framed and labelled with a simple black frame that is perfect for it, and it hangs in my living room wall, with nothing else on that entire wall. So here is that painting, which has always appealed to me at so many levels. The painting has to be seen in a larger size in order to feel its full impact, but you get the idea of it from this copy:
> 
> https://www.slam.org/collection/objects/13430/


That's a fantastic painting. I love how you framed it and left it as the only thing on the wall.

I've long been a fan of the German Expressionists and have seen many of their works at the Neue Gallery here in NYC.

https://www.neuegalerie.org/content/mission-statement
Beckmann is impressive as is one of my favorites, Otto Dix.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> That's a fantastic painting. I love how you framed it and left it as the only thing on the wall.
> 
> I've long been a fan of the German Expressionists and have seen many of their works at the Neue Gallery here in NYC.
> 
> https://www.neuegalerie.org/content/mission-statement
> Beckmann is impressive as is one of my favorites, Otto Dix.


Thank you @ Fading Fast. Yes, Dix is great, as is George Grosz, with his sardonic eye and fine sense of both line and character, depicting the vast gallery of rogues and characters in Weimar Germany. He too emigrated to the United States.

The inter-war Weimar period was a fascinating and dangerous time in German history, and the recent series _Babylon Berlin_ is set during the tail end of the Weimar Republic. It is based on a set of German _romans policiers _of that period and beautifully recaptures the atmosphere of the twenties. I have only seen the first two episodes of the first season and am waiting for the Blu Rays (I don't have Netflix, and that is the only place to get it, I think).


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Thank you @ Fading Fast. Yes, Dix is great, as is George Grosz, with his sardonic eye and fine sense of both line and character, depicting the vast gallery of rogues and characters in Weimar Germany. He too emigrated to the United States.
> 
> The inter-war Weimar period was a fascinating and dangerous time in German history, and the recent series _Babylon Berlin_ is set during the tail end of the Weimar Republic. It is based on a set of German _romans policiers _of that period and beautifully recaptures the atmosphere of the twenties. I have only seen the first two episodes of the first season and am waiting for the Blu Rays (I don't have Netflix, and that is the only place to get it, I think).


I love "Babylon Berlin." We've seen the first two seasons so far and, while the stories are good, the visual of the show - the period time travel - is incredible. I think you'll really enjoy it when the rest comes out in Blue Ray. We have been "saving" season 3 (recently release on Netflix), so that we know we have something we'll really like to watch - might start it this weekend.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I love "Babylon Berlin." We've seen the first two seasons so far and, while the stories are good, the visual of the show - the period time travel - is incredible. I think you'll really enjoy it when the rest comes out in Blue Ray. We have been "saving" season 3 (recently release on Netflix), so that we know we have something we'll really like to watch - might start it this weekend.


You lucky devils! I am envious -- just a little...


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 41865


Appropriate attire for sure, for pleading one's case before the University's Greek Council! LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 41866


Some great clothes! 👍


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 41865


Buffalo Plaid sports jacket? I've seen loud blazers ( for instance, the bright, striped kind university students in England used to wear for boat races, regattas and so forth, along with straw boaters on their heads), but this one is seriously loud. However, to each his own. I don't know which movie this still photograph is from, and would appreciate hearing from those who know.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 41866


A vintage advertisement for a favored brand of clothing. Very nice!


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41886


 It's hard to determine who or what is more overheated....the car or the driver! LOL. BTW...great illustration.


----------



## FiscalDean

drpeter said:


> Buffalo Plaid sports jacket? I've seen loud blazers ( for instance, the bright, striped kind university students in England used to wear for boat races, regattas and so forth, along with straw boaters on their heads), but this one is seriously loud. However, to each his own. I don't know which movie this still photograph is from, and would appreciate hearing from those who know.


I believe the movie is National Lampoon's Animal House from 1978. Set in 1962, the movie is a treasure trove of Trad clothing.


----------



## Guest

drpeter said:


> Buffalo Plaid sports jacket? I've seen loud blazers ( for instance, the bright, striped kind university students in England used to wear for boat races, regattas and so forth, along with straw boaters on their heads), but this one is seriously loud. However, to each his own. I don't know which movie this still photograph is from, and would appreciate hearing from those who know.


_Animal House_


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> It's hard to determine who or what is more overheated....the car or the driver! LOL. BTW...great illustration.


Agreed, other than that the identical twins, I thought the artist did an outstanding job.


----------



## drpeter

Guest-423245 said:


> _Animal House_


Thank you.


----------



## drpeter

FiscalDean said:


> I believe the movie is National Lampoon's Animal House from 1978. Set in 1962, the movie is a treasure trove of Trad clothing.


Thank you. I've never seen the movie since its frat house themes were not especially appealing to me, but perhaps I should try to watch it now, to see all the Trad clothing...


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41886


Love it!


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Buffalo Plaid sports jacket? I've seen loud blazers ( for instance, the bright, striped kind university students in England used to wear for boat races, regattas and so forth, along with straw boaters on their heads), but this one is seriously loud. However, to each his own. I don't know which movie this still photograph is from, and would appreciate hearing from those who know.


----------



## drpeter

Those are pretty wacky antics -- looks like the second clip was dubbed in Italian. Thanks, @Flanderian.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Those are pretty wacky antics -- looks like the second clip was dubbed in Italian. Thanks, @Flanderian.


Very funny movie!

I was banking on few Italian speakers. :icon_saint7kg:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41926


The Illustrative Twins are at it again, this time hawking chewing gum...but where's the Teaberry flavor. Last time I saw such for sale it was in one of several Cracker Barrel Restaurants. I think even they have quit selling it at this point.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Very funny movie!
> 
> I was banking on few Italian speakers. :icon_saint7kg:


S'io credesse che mia risposta fosse
A persona che mai tornasse al mondo,
Questa fiamma staria senza piu scosse.
Ma percioche giammai di questo fondo
Non torno vivo alcun, s'i'odo il vero,
Senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo.

The film might have been even wackier if Belushi had stood up and declaimed these lines from Dante's _Inferno_. After all his magnum opus was called _The Divine Comedy -- _Dante's, that is, not Belushi's! 

Full disclosure: I love many things Italian and have spent time in that country, but don't speak the language beyond a few words. The lines above are quoted by TS Eliot in one of the more famous poems in the English language: _The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock_


----------



## drpeter

Being an obsessive book collector, I have three translations of Dante, including first editions of the most detailed and gorgeous version by Professor Charles S Singleton, published by Princeton University Press. I have the second printing (1977) which includes all the corrections. There are three volumes of the poem itself (_Inferno, Purgatorio _and_ Paradiso_), and each is accompanied by a separate volume which contains exegesis and commentary. The original Italian text is on the verso page and the translation on the recto, in the manner of the old Oxford and Harvard Classics, or the Clay Sanskrit Library translations of the great Indian epics. An interestng fact: Both Singleton and TS Eliot received the Gold Medal from the International Congress of Dante Studies in Florence. Here is a lovely translation of the above lines from the Princeton Dante Project:

If I but thought that my response were made
to one perhaps returning to the world,
this tongue of flame would cease to flicker.
But since, up from these depths, no one has yet
returned alive, if what I hear is true,
I answer without fear of being shamed.

Perhaps we should read Dante in the time of the coronavirus, our current Great Plague. What better way to spend some of our time in isolation? I firmly believe that fine literature is both pleasure and refuge, and I feel extraordinarily fortunate that I have a personal library, a collection formed over decades, to surround me as I shelter in place.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 41926


Handsome clothes!

Viewing the Dentyne in the ad, I'm reminded how through much of my childhood it was marketed primarily as a boon to good dental hygiene! 



drpeter said:


> Being an obsessive book collector, I have three translations of Dante, including first editions of the most detailed and gorgeous version by Professor Charles S Singleton, published by Princeton University Press. I have the second printing (1977) which includes all the corrections. There are three volumes of the poem itself (_Inferno, Purgatorio _and_ Paradiso_), and each is accompanied by a separate volume which contains exegesis and commentary. The original Italian text is on the verso page and the translation on the recto, in the manner of the old Oxford and Harvard Classics, or the Clay Sanskrit Library translations of the great Indian epics. An interestng fact: Both Singleton and TS Eliot received the Gold Medal from the International Congress of Dante Studies in Florence. Here is a lovely translation of the above lines from the Princeton Dante Project:
> 
> If I but thought that my response were made
> to one perhaps returning to the world,
> this tongue of flame would cease to flicker.
> But since, up from these depths, no one has yet
> returned alive, if what I hear is true,
> I answer without fear of being shamed.
> 
> Perhaps we should read Dante in the time of the coronavirus, our current Great Plague. What better way to spend some of our time in isolation? I firmly believe that fine literature is both pleasure and refuge, and I feel extraordinarily fortunate that I have a personal library, a collection formed over decades, to surround me as I shelter in place.


I'm afraid that as a product of a misspent youth my taste for classic literature was severely truncated. Some classics, such as Dante, always eluded my interests. And while I once enjoyed poetry, I allowed that interest to wither as I enjoyed more contemporary fiction and histories. Medieval classicism for the sake of classicism has rarely spoken to me. Though selected elements have.

But I'm very glad that you have that deep pleasure and sustenance upon which to rely during our time of common trial.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Perhaps we should read Dante in the time of the coronavirus, our current Great Plague. What better way to spend some of our time in isolation? I firmly believe that fine literature is both pleasure and refuge, and I feel extraordinarily fortunate that I have a personal library, a collection formed over decades, to surround me as I shelter in place.





Flanderian said:


> .................................................................................................................................................................
> I'm afraid that as a product of a misspent youth my taste for classic literature was severely truncated. Some classics, such as Dante, always eluded my interests. And while I once enjoyed poetry, I allowed that interest to wither as I enjoyed more contemporary fiction and histories. Medieval classicism for the sake of classicism has rarely spoken to me. Though selected elements have.
> 
> But I'm very glad that you have that deep pleasure and sustenance upon which to rely during our time of common trial.


LOL. We all have our preferences in how we react to this day's "Great Plague." On my bookcase sits two copies of Dante's "Divine Comedy," one a Barnes and Noble paperback classic and the other a leather bound B&N collectable. The paperback has been read twice and the collectors edition remains pristine and unread, as of this moment. Also sitting on my bookshelves is a copy of Stephen Kings "The Stand!' It is a hardbound book that I read years ago and just three weeks back, I pulled it off the shelf and reread the rather substantial tome, after which I watched the movie resulting from that book, for a third time.. I like to think that I am a righteous man and also perhaps a minor intellectual presence in my small part of the world. However, my choice of which volume I would reread seems to indicate that I mayhave good intentions and great hopes, but am still just a hillbilly at heart. I can live with that. 

LOL, it seems patently ironic that we all in our own unique way are finding ways to 'kill' time so that his damn virus doesn't get the opportunity to kill us! :crazy:


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> I'm afraid that as a product of a misspent youth my taste for classic literature was severely truncated. Some classics, such as Dante, always eluded my interests. And while I once enjoyed poetry, I allowed that interest to wither as I enjoyed more contemporary fiction and histories. Medieval classicism for the sake of classicism has rarely spoken to me. Though selected elements have.
> 
> But I'm very glad that you have that deep pleasure and sustenance upon which to rely during our time of common trial.


Thank you. In return, may I offer a poem to you, a man who lives in Flanders, NJ? It's a celebrated poem, and an elegiac one at that, quite appropriate in mourning the dead in our current virus pandemic. We studied it in school, and the man who taught it to us was not the English master, but the History master!

*In Flanders Fields*

John McCrae (1872-1918)
Canadian Army Doctor in WWI

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. We all have our preferences in how we react to this day's "Great Plague." On my bookcase sits two copies of Dante's "Divine Comedy," one a Barnes and Noble paperback classic and the other a leather bound B&N collectable. The paperback has been read twice and the collectors edition remains pristine and unread, as of this moment. Also sitting on my bookshelves is a copy of Stephen Kings "The Stand!' It is a hardbound book that I read years ago and just three weeks back, I pulled it off the shelf and reread the rather substantial tome, after which I watched the movie resulting from that book, for a third time.. I like to think that I am a righteous man and also perhaps a minor intellectual presence in my small part of the world. However, my choice of which volume I would reread seems to indicate that I mayhave good intentions and great hopes, but am still just a hillbilly at heart. I can live with that.
> 
> LOL, it seems patently ironic that we all in our own unique way are finding ways to 'kill' time so that his damn virus doesn't get the opportunity to kill us! :crazy:


You are right. We re-read whatever gives us pleasure, and choosing Stephen King over Dante is the choice that appeals to you at the moment. Nevertheless, you have read the poem twice in the paperback edition, which is excellent. I had a retirement project, to read all ten volumes of Proust's _Remembrance of Things Past_ -- I haven't got much beyond the first volume! On the other hand I have read most of Graham Greene's novels multiple times. We ourselves are the only judges that matter -- reading is, in the final analysis, an intensely personal affair.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Thank you. In return, may I offer a poem to you, a man who lives in Flanders, NJ? It's a celebrated poem, and an elegiac one at that, quite appropriate in mourning the dead in our current virus pandemic. We studied it in school, and the man who taught it to us was not the English master, but the History master!
> 
> *In Flanders Fields*
> 
> John McCrae (1872-1918)
> Canadian Army Doctor in WWI
> 
> In Flanders fields the poppies blow
> Between the crosses, row on row,
> That mark our place; and in the sky
> The larks, still bravely singing, fly
> Scarce heard amid the guns below.
> 
> We are the Dead. Short days ago
> We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
> Loved and were loved, and now we lie
> In Flanders fields.
> 
> Take up our quarrel with the foe:
> To you from failing hands we throw
> The torch; be yours to hold it high.
> If ye break faith with us who die
> We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
> In Flanders fields.


😢😢😢


----------



## smmrfld

drpeter said:


> I don't know which movie this still photograph is from


Seriously???


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Thank you. In return, may I offer a poem to you, a man who lives in Flanders, NJ? It's a celebrated poem, and an elegiac one at that, quite appropriate in mourning the dead in our current virus pandemic. We studied it in school, and the man who taught it to us was not the English master, but the History master!
> 
> *In Flanders Fields*
> 
> John McCrae (1872-1918)
> Canadian Army Doctor in WWI
> 
> In Flanders fields the poppies blow
> Between the crosses, row on row,
> That mark our place; and in the sky
> The larks, still bravely singing, fly
> Scarce heard amid the guns below.
> 
> We are the Dead. Short days ago
> We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
> Loved and were loved, and now we lie
> In Flanders fields.
> 
> Take up our quarrel with the foe:
> To you from failing hands we throw
> The torch; be yours to hold it high.
> If ye break faith with us who die
> We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
> In Flanders fields.


Thank you . . . . beautiful and moving! I'd read it before and was moved then as I am again now. I had not marked it as I should. This poem, as does most poetry which I enjoy sings to us and brings us closer to the infinite. Reminds me of another poem, a favorite, from a succeeding conflict.

*High Flight*

John Gillespie Magee Jr.
Fighter Pilot

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
of sun-split clouds, - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air....

Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
- Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.


----------



## Fading Fast

Something a little different, but the bowtie and macintosh are right in our wheelhouse.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Thank you . . . . beautiful and moving! I'd read it before and was moved then as I am again now. I had not marked it as I should. This poem, as does most poetry which I enjoy sings to us and brings us closer to the infinite. Reminds me of another poem, a favorite, from a succeeding conflict.
> 
> *High Flight*
> 
> John Gillespie Magee Jr.
> Fighter Pilot
> 
> Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
> And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
> Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
> of sun-split clouds, - and done a hundred things
> You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
> High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
> I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
> My eager craft through footless halls of air....
> 
> Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
> I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace.
> Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
> And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
> The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
> - Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.


A lovely poem! And "slipped the surly bonds of earth" is a phrase that should evoke particularly sad memories in Americans of a certain age. Peggie Noonan, then an unknown young speechwriter, used it very effectively to create a moving speech for President Reagan when he comforted the nation after the Challenger disaster. Many of us remember Christa McAuliffe, the young schoolteacher aboard the space shuttle, who died along with the other astronauts. Noonan went on to become a principal speechwriter for Reagan. She taught us _inter alia_ that words matter, poetry is vital, and the English language with its enormous vocabulary, is a poet's blessing.

The poem also reminded me strongly of the numerous times I have been aloft in small planes. I never learned to fly myself, but went up with friends who were pilots. Although I have never been in a glider, an old schoolmate of mine, a doctor in Hong Kong now semi-retired, is an ardent glider pilot and even came to the States to get his glider instructor qualifications. He describes the sensation of being in a glider (called a sailplane in America, I think) as unique, with the sound of air, and no engines, being the closest to what a bird might experience. And indeed, the reference to eagles in the poem, reminded me of eagles climbing on thermals, much as a glider would.

The closest I got to a bird-like flight was in 2011 when I was visiting India, and stayed with another schoolmate, a Vice Admiral in the Indian Navy with a training command in Cochin. He got one of his Commanders, a naval aviator, to take me up in an ultralight! An engine, wings and wheels -- that was it. I sat behind the Commander and he let me try manoeuvring the aircraft once we were aloft. It was enormous fun! And wouldn't you know it, I hate flying in commercial airplanes!

Remarkable poem, @Flanderian, thank you for sharing it with us.


----------



## drpeter

smmrfld said:


> Seriously???


Seriously. Scout's honour, and so forth. Although now I do, after two people here let me know. The theme of the movie really did not interest me at the time it was released, so I never saw it. Now that it has become a classic, I should perhaps find a copy and watch it. Especially since I thoroughly enjoyed _The Blues Brothers_!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Something a little different, but the bowtie and macintosh are right in our wheelhouse.
> View attachment 41961


Has anyone else noticed that the handsome and courageous Rip Kirby looks a lot like a middle aged Clark Kent? Is it possible that Superman's alter ego had a side job? :icon_scratch::icon_scratch::icon_scratch:

Great Illustration that provides much information to incite unplanned escapades of our respective imaginations!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the handsome and courageous Rip Kirby looks a lot like a middle aged Clark Kent? Is it possible that Superman's alter ego had a side job? :icon_scratch::icon_scratch::icon_scratch:
> 
> Great Illustration that provides much information to incite unplanned escapades of our respective imaginations!


Not just saying it, but I did notice the resemblance; however, I thought he was more like the "Kent" brother that did not get the really good looks.

Love the bullet splintering the wood.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Something a little different, but the bowtie and macintosh are right in our wheelhouse.
> View attachment 41961


Had to read the relevant posts to realize it *wasn't* Clark Kent!


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> A lovely poem! And "slipped the surly bonds of earth" is a phrase that should evoke particularly sad memories in Americans of a certain age. Peggie Noonan, then an unknown young speechwriter, used it very effectively to create a moving speech for President Reagan when he comforted the nation after the Challenger disaster. Many of us remember Christa McAuliffe, the young schoolteacher aboard the space shuttle, who died along with the other astronauts. Noonan went on to become a principal speechwriter for Reagan. She taught us _inter alia_ that words matter, poetry is vital, and the English language with its enormous vocabulary, is a poet's blessing.
> 
> The poem also reminded me strongly of the numerous times I have been aloft in small planes. I never learned to fly myself, but went up with friends who were pilots. Although I have never been in a glider, an old schoolmate of mine, a doctor in Hong Kong now semi-retired, is an ardent glider pilot and even came to the States to get his glider instructor qualifications. He describes the sensation of being in a glider (called a sailplane in America, I think) as unique, with the sound of air, and no engines, being the closest to what a bird might experience. And indeed, the reference to eagles in the poem, reminded me of eagles climbing on thermals, much as a glider would.
> 
> The closest I got to a bird-like flight was in 2011 when I was visiting India, and stayed with another schoolmate, a Vice Admiral in the Indian Navy with a training command in Cochin. He got one of his Commanders, a naval aviator, to take me up in an ultralight! An engine, wings and wheels -- that was it. I sat behind the Commander and he let me try manoeuvring the aircraft once we were aloft. It was enormous fun! And wouldn't you know it, I hate flying in commercial airplanes!
> 
> Remarkable poem, @Flanderian, thank you for sharing it with us.


I'm glad you enjoyed it. Your mention of the writing of Peggy Noonan tugs at my longing for more eloquent voices among the body politic. If at heart Americans are folksy, in the past that did not bar chief voices among them from eloquence, but instead enriched them. The 19th Century was in some ways a high point of western culture, and the melding of both the common and exalted in public expression could be found in giants such as Lincoln and Twain. Ms. Noonan was easily one of the finest practitioners in our contemporary era. Would there were such voices now.

In addition to Ms. Noonan's use, this poem has served other purposes; among which it is the official poem of Royal Canadian Air Force, in whose service Magee perished, and is used among airman around the world.

Soaring must be beautiful, but I shall defer to those more fond of heights!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oldsarge

Soaring is one of those hobbies both my wife and I wanted to do but it's far from budget-easy. And at the time we had two small children. Such are the would-have-beens of life.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> I'm glad you enjoyed it. Your mention of the writing of Peggy Noonan tugs at my longing for more eloquent voices among the body politic. If at heart Americans are folksy, in the past that did not bar chief voices among them from eloquence, but instead enriched them. The 19th Century was in some ways a high point of western culture, and the melding of both the common and exalted in public expression could be found in giants such as Lincoln and Twain. Ms. Noonan was easily one of the finest practitioners in our contemporary era. Would there were such voices now.
> 
> In addition to Ms. Noonan's use, this poem has served other purposes; among which it is the official poem of Royal Canadian Air Force, in whose service Magee perished, and is used among airman around the world.
> 
> Soaring must be beautiful, but I shall defer to those more fond of heights!
> 
> View attachment 41985


Thanks. I love the picture and I am also in full agreement with you regarding Ms Noonan, whom I like and respect a lot.

Your mention of the RCAF brings to mind the well-known RAF motto, which many of the Commonwealth Air Forces (Australia and New Zealand, and I think Canada) have adopted. The motto is very poetic: _Per Ardua ad Astra_ (Through Adversities to the Stars).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42012


Great photo and ad! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

I'm aware this is from a couple decades prior to the '50's, but I beg the OP's indulgence. A nice illustration of some nice duds!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great photo and ad! 👍


I love his outfit. I'm thinking bucks or saddles on his feet?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I love his outfit. I'm thinking bucks or saddles on his feet?


Absolutely, or pennies!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ That's a good one.

⇩ A pic not an illustration, but still feels like it fits here.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Absolutely, or pennies!


In my mind's eye, I was seeing Pennies, as well, but saddle shoes are a close second! :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ That's a good one.
> 
> ⇩ A pic not an illustration, but still feels like it fits here.
> View attachment 42048


It most certainly does! 👍

Choate? Exeter? St. Paul's? Groton?


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Kid with the saddles has really got it going on sartorially.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Kid with the saddles has really got it going on sartorially.


Funny, doesn't look like *my* high school at all! :laughing:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Kid with the saddles has really got it going on sartorially.





Flanderian said:


> Funny, doesn't look like *my* high school at all! :laughing:


Yes indeed, they are all dressing a whole lot better than I recall seeing done in my high school. We never seemed to dress beyond chinos, OCBDs and Penny Loafers. At the time I thought I was looking pretty darned spiffy!


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Yes indeed, they are all dressing a whole lot better than I recall seeing done in my high school. We never seemed to dress beyond chinos, OCBDs and Penny Loafers. At the time I thought I was looking pretty darned spiffy!


Seriously? Pegged Levis, short sleeved BD's and Pendleton Board Shirts in my high school. But then, it was California.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42107


Spot on for the '50's. The only thing beyond my experience is the boy in the shorts uniform.

Loved that airliner as a boy. My father would sometimes round up all the critters on a hot summer evening and bring us to the airport's observation jetty to watch these planes landing and taking off, and get cooled off by the prop wash.

Still think the "Connie" is a handsome aircraft!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Spot on for the '50's. The only thing beyond my experience is the boy in the shorts uniform.
> 
> Loved that airliner as a boy. My father would sometimes round up all the critters on a hot summer evening and bring us to the airport's observation jetty to watch planes landing and taking off, and get cooled off by the prop wash.
> 
> Still think the "Connie" is a handsome aircraft!
> 
> View attachment 42121


Agreed - that's a beautiful looking plane.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed - that's a beautiful looking plane.


----------



## Fading Fast




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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42141


Very nice! 👍


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## Flanderian




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42141


Is the building in the background one of those at Princeton University...or have I consumed too much caffeine today and I'm hallucinating? :crazy:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Is the building in the background one of those at Princeton University...or have I consumed too much caffeine today and I'm hallucinating? :crazy:


I can't say as the closest I got to Princeton was the State University of New Jersey (Rutgers), which is the very pedestrian institution of higher education about thirty miles down the road from that elite Ivy institution known for its black and orange and F. Scott Fitzgerald.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Is the building in the background one of those at Princeton University...or have I consumed too much caffeine today and I'm hallucinating? :crazy:


I think perhaps the illustrator was *inspired* by the Princeton University Chapel. Quite similar, but a few differences of detail. I actually had the pleasure of attending a wedding there about 30 years ago. Awesome is an adjective so overused as to almost have become meaningless, but in its true meaning, that is one of two that best describes this church, the other being beautiful.

Did you know that Princeton was originally named The College of New Jersey and was founded by Aaron Burr Sr, father of the Vice President and murderer Aaron Burr Jr? And that during the Revolutionary War Princeton served alternately as both a British barracks and seat of the Continental Congress?


----------



## Fading Fast

I went to grammar school in the '70s where we used ballpoint pens or #2 pencils, but many of the classrooms still had those exact desks.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42186
> 
> I went to grammar school in the '70s where we used ballpoint pens or #2 pencils, but many of the classrooms still had those exact desks.


A decade, or so, earlier, those of my high school were similar, but lacked the well for the jar of ink. However my elementary school which opened in 1892 not only had the well, but many desks still had the ink reservoir, which if one fished around its bottom with a pencil could still yield a bit of tarry sludge. :icon_saint7kg:


----------



## Oldsarge

We had the desks but no reservoirs. As I recall, fountain pens were never in use except for the occasional eccentric. I started using them in college, just for the eccentricity of it all but after losing entirely too many expensive fountain pens, gave up and went to Pilots


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42186
> 
> I went to grammar school in the '70s where we used ballpoint pens or #2 pencils, but many of the classrooms still had those exact desks.


Thoser are the design of desks we used at Woolrich Elementary Schoolin Woolrich, PA, during the years I studied there. It's been quite awhile since they used inkwells at school desks. That is a great illustration that resurrected many happy memories!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42219


Regardless of who made the coat, the only person who looks that happy walking through a storm is Fred Astaire, LOL, with those exaggerated Cheshire grins, that illustration has got to be "fake news!"


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Regardless of who made the coat, the only person who looks that happy walking through a storm is Fred Astaire, LOL, with those exaggerated Cheshire grins, that illustration has got to be "fake news!"


Agreed, Astaire could look happy in a storm, but so could this guy in, perhaps, the most-famous Hollywood happy-in-a-storm scene ever:


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42278


As a resident 'shoe whore' in the AAAC brotherhood, I must admit to the allure of the illustration you posted above. Considering the pricing of the shoes pictured at $8.95 to $12.95, I can better understand the ongoing longing I have for 'the good old days".....at those prices I could have me more that a 100 pair(s) of those "Fortunes" for the price I paid for one pair of my Luccheses! :crazy: Although, I can't claim any familiarity with Fortune footwear? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> As a resident 'shoe whore' in the AAAC brotherhood, I must admit to the allure of the illustration you posted above. Considering the pricing of the shoes pictured at $8.95 to $12.95, I can better understand the ongoing longing I have for 'the good old days".....at those prices I could have me more that a 100 pair(s) of those "Fortunes" for the price I paid for one pair of my Luccheses! :crazy: Although, I can't claim any familiarity with Fortune footwear? :icon_scratch:


About seven years ago, on a season-ending, close-out sale (plus adding in this and that promo code), I bought a pair of chambray sneakers from Old Navy for ~$13 (which, coincidentally, is about what Converse Chuck Taylors cost when I was a kid in the '70s).

The Old Navy sneakers are comfortable, look good and have lasted all these years despite a decent amount of summer wear. My (tiny) point, in modern times, I actually bought a pair of "shoes" for about the same price as those in the ad.

That said, I'd rather have the shoes in the ad; although, they are bordering on "Hymen Roth old-man Florida" footwear.


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## Fading Fast




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## Peak and Pine

^

Good. But maybe bigger buttons. Interesting that the detail shot of the collar is a wee smaller than the full shot or so I thinks then realize it's to show the collar unpopped like I couldn't figure that out,


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> About seven years ago, on a season-ending, close-out sale (plus adding in this and that promo code), I bought a pair of chambray sneakers from Old Navy for ~$13 (which, coincidentally, is about what Converse Chuck Taylors cost when I was a kid in the '70s).
> 
> The Old Navy sneakers are comfortable, look good and have lasted all these years despite a decent amount of summer wear. My (tiny) point, in modern times, I actually bought a pair of "shoes" for about the same price as those in the ad.
> 
> That said, I'd rather have the shoes in the ad; although, they are bordering on "Hymen Roth old-man Florida" footwear.


Ouch! That "old man Florida footwear" comment hits pretty close to home and is in all probability, going to leave a mark. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Ouch! That "old man Florida footwear" comment hits pretty close to home and is in all probability, going to leave a mark. LOL.


Not intentional at all as I was referring to Hyman Roth from "The Godfather" who was (or looked) about 80 and dressed as a cliche of an old man living in FLA in the '50s. From the few pics you posted - you could not be further away from that.


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> 
> Good. But maybe bigger buttons. Interesting that the detail shot of the collar is a wee smaller than the full shot or so I thinks then realize it's to show the collar unpopped like I couldn't figure that out,


I noticed that too, but thought it might be because the illustration doesn't go all the way to the fold of the lapel so it only looks smaller because the "section" pic doesn't capture the full width.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> Not intentional at all as I was referring to Hyman Roth from "The Godfather" who was (or looked) about 80 and dressed as a cliche of an old man living in FLA in the '50s. From the few pics you posted - *you could not be further away from that.*


Let's not go that far.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I noticed that too, but thought it might be because the illustration doesn't go all the way to the fold of the lapel so it only looks smaller because the "section" pic doesn't capture the full width.





Peak and Pine said:


> Let's not go that far.


When the man is right, the man is right! LOL. But thank you, FF, for the compliment and thank you P&P for the necessary restraint. :amazing:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42278





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42299


Great stuff! 👍


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 42345


I.m going to have to lose some weight to fit into those designs. Up until four years ago, I stayed within USAF weight standards, but alas, I cannot make that claim today!


----------



## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 42345


Interesting (besides three of the five smoking) that the illustrator's chosen to highlight the much undesired waist wrinkle on all five. Late 40s, early 50s? Nix on this, except maybe third from left.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42375


Looking at his Tennis sweater draped over his left forearm and carrying his tennis racket, the handsome gentleman in today's illustration appears to be troubled by that age old dilemma..."do I go to work or do I stop by the tennis courts on the way to work?" Tough decision, eh? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> I'm aware this is from a couple decades prior to the '50's, but I beg the OP's indulgence. A nice illustration of some nice duds!
> 
> View attachment 42027


Good heavens! Plus fours! (If I am not mistaken, that's what the chap on the very left end is wearing). Grey flannel plus fours were _de rigueur_ in British universities in the 1920s and 1930s.

I also love the combination of a dove grey DB jacket with white trousers. It is an elegant colour mix for the summer. I often wear light grey poplin slacks (flat front for a neater look) in the summer, with a crisp white shirt -- long or short sleeves -- or a white polo shirt. A cream coloured garment is also a great match for a light grey companion garment. And one can make this arrangement really sparkle and pop if one adds a navy blue tie or ascot with white polka dots. The size of the dots, IMHO, is fatally critical, though! Too small and we're sunk, the full effect will simply not be there; too large and it will make one look like a carnival barker (or a Chicago mobster), and all will be lost. No offence, just personal views.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42412


Hard to tell with my aging eyes whether this suit is grey or brown, or at this distance, whether it is flannel or worsted. But it looks very natty, no question.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Hard to tell with my aging eyes whether this suit is grey or brown, or at this distance, whether it is flannel or worsted. But it looks very natty, no question.


Doesn't it, though? And I would call that color 'taupe', sort or a tannish grey or a grayish tan. At least that's what my monitor shows.


----------



## Fading Fast

What I like here is that the illustration captures some classic workwear, business-attire and secretarial-pool examples. That said, the office furniture is a bit of an odd mishmash.


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## Fading Fast

And for an Easter Sunday bonus, these "meta" illustrations were created from the photos in the iconic "Take Ivy" book.















Source: The* Ivy Style* website: https://www.ivy-style.com/take-ivy-illustrated.html


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And for an Easter Sunday bonus, these "meta" illustrations were created from the photos in the iconic "Take Ivy" book.
> View attachment 42456
> View attachment 42457
> 
> Source: The* Ivy Style* website: https://www.ivy-style.com/take-ivy-illustrated.html


Indeed, some of your best...Thank you and have a Joyful Easter Sunday! Now I've got to go out and pick up our Sunday breakfast and bring them back to the nest, to attend Easter Services online, Life surely is a-changing!


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> What I like here is that the illustration captures some classic workwear, business-attire and secretarial-pool examples. That said, the office furniture is a bit of an odd mishmash.
> View attachment 42455


It's interesting how these pictures and adverts evoke different things in the viewer based on background and experience. The dress (sheath, perhaps?) worn by the secretary in this image reminded me very strongly of a garment worn by women, especially those of Chinese ancestry, in Malaya in the fifties, where I grew up. With a mandarin collar, and a long slit down the left thigh, it would be almost identical to a _cheongsam_. My lovely second standard class teacher in the Methodist Boys' School in Kuala Lumpur, Miss Ah Moy, wore gorgeous cheongsams, and all of us seven-year-old lads appreciated the beauty of this woman and the elegance of her clothes. Being a somewhat precocious fellow even at seven, I positively lusted after her, although in an innocent, airy-fairy sort of way, LOL. (I would be eight before I figured out the facts of life). And she was a good, kind teacher too, none of that rapping children on the knuckles business!

Nowadays, of course, the girls and women in Malaya are all probably dressed in a _hijab_, if Muslims, or else in jeans and shirts, (or perhaps both)! _O tempora! O mores!_


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> And for an Easter Sunday bonus, these "meta" illustrations were created from the photos in the iconic "Take Ivy" book.
> View attachment 42456
> View attachment 42457
> 
> Source: The* Ivy Style* website: https://www.ivy-style.com/take-ivy-illustrated.html


I was looking at these yesterday on the Ivy Style blog. They are great. Sometimes I think the Japanese are more American than the Americans!

Talking about the Ivy Style blog , I just bought a copy of Christian Chensvold's short novella _These are our Failures, _which has a sartorial theme as well as a thriller-style plot. It should arrive in a few days. Has anyone here read this book yet? I'm looking forward to reading it because I like descriptions of clothes (and meals) sprinkled here and there in a work of fiction. I do it myself in my own fiction.

Ian Fleming did this sort of thing extensively in the Bond novels, and the names he drops make one think he had something of a product fetish going! Eric Ambler, on the other hand, did it sparingly, but effectively. It stays in one's memory. I still recall the central character in Ambler's _State of Siege_, a thriller set in the time of a _coup d'etat_ in a fictional Southeast Asian country called Sunda (after the Sunda Straits, I presume) reminiscent of Indonesia during the coup of 1965-66. He is a mining engineer ready to go back home to England, and his "dhobie-battered slacks and shirts" have to be replaced. So he orders two pairs of khaki slacks and two white shirts from one of the high-speed tailors in the city. It somehow stuck in my memory, probably because I had lived in that place close to that period in time. Or perhaps because my Dad wore similar clothes, almost a uniform in those places -- crisp white cotton shirts and khaki or white slacks made of strong cotton drill, very functional in the hot humid climate.

Graham Greene, one of my favourite novelists and man of the world who, incidentally, did spend time in Malaya, says in _Ways of Escape_: "Memory is like a long, broken night."


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> It's interesting how these pictures and adverts evoke different things in the viewer based on background and experience. The dress (sheath, perhaps?) worn by the secretary in this image reminded me very strongly of a garment worn by women, especially those of Chinese ancestry, in Malaya in the fifties, where I grew up. With a mandarin collar, and a long slit down the left thigh, it would be almost identical to a _cheongsam_. My lovely second standard class teacher in the Methodist Boys' School in Kuala Lumpur, Miss Ah Moy, wore gorgeous cheongsams, and all of us seven-year-old lads appreciated the beauty of this woman and the elegance of her clothes. Being a somewhat precocious fellow even at seven, I positively lusted after her, although in an innocent, airy-fairy sort of way, LOL. (I would be eight before I figured out the facts of life). And she was a good, kind teacher too, none of that rapping children on the knuckles business!
> 
> Nowadays, of course, the girls and women in Malaya are all probably dressed in a _hijab_, if Muslims, or else in jeans and shirts, (or perhaps both)! _O tempora! O mores!_


I see the Asian influence in her dress now that you pointed it out, but never having been anywhere in Asia, let alone spent part of my childhood there, as you note, it isn't something I would naturally pick up.

That said, having grown up in the '70s, there were plenty of secretaries still dressed kinda that way then as - despite our popular image of the polyester '70s - many people, especially those in business, still adhered to a pre-late-'60s dress code.

We used to pay our gas bill in person in those days and my Dad or Mom would drive up and I'd run in with the check to pay. When you went in, there were several secretaries or clerks - all women, always - behind the glass partition where you paid who looked and dressed like that women or an older version of her.

To your other point, maybe there's something about that age for a boy, for I, too, remember crushing on a teacher then despite not knowing what to do about it if the opportunity (in some parallel universe) had presented itself.


----------



## peterc

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42412


DeCaprio's suits were cut like this in Revolutionary Road. A good, if sad, film. As an aside, I think it's really hard to get a tailor to make you a suit that is as loose fitting, yet as elegantly tailored as this. The closest I ever came were the Emporio Armani's I had between 1990 and 1995. I still have one 1995 era navy blazer. It still fits despite being a 42. I have to buy a isze 46 these days...


----------



## peterc

Fading Fast said:


> I can't say as the closest I got to Princeton was the State University of New Jersey (Rutgers), which is the very pedestrian institution of higher education about thirty miles down the road from that elite Ivy institution known for its black and orange and F. Scott Fitzgerald.


I had drinks at the Annex once in the 80's and bought a book at Micawbers. That's the closest I got.


----------



## drpeter

peterc said:


> DeCaprio's suits were cut like this in Revolutionary Road. A good, if sad, film. As an aside, I think it's really hard to get a tailor to make you a suit that is as loose fitting, yet as elegantly tailored as this. The closest I ever came were the Emporio Armani's I had between 1990 and 1995. I still have one 1995 era navy blazer. It still fits despite being a 42. I have to buy a isze 46 these days...


I liked the film very much indeed, and yes, it was a sad film. Richard Yates is a very fine novelist.

IMHO, the elegance achieved with a loose fitting suit is very much dependent on the weight, and therefore the drape, of the material used. I doubt if a light fresca fabric would do the trick. But say, a 10 oz flannel, the thinner kind commonly seen these days, might drape well, and look trim, even if the cut is loose. It's finding the right balance between weight and comfort that's key, I imagine.

As for Armani, I know he was very popular in the eighties and nineties, but the lower placement of the lapel notch, almost halfway down the lapel, was not very pleasing to me -- just personal taste, that's all.


----------



## peterc

drpeter said:


> I liked the film very much indeed, and yes, it was a sad film. Richard Yates is a very fine novelist.
> 
> IMHO, the elegance achieved with a loose fitting suit is very much dependent on the weight, and therefore the drape, of the material used. I doubt if a light fresca fabric would do the trick. But say, a 10 oz flannel, the thinner kind commonly seen these days, might drape well, and look trim, even if the cut is loose. It's finding the right balance between weight and comfort that's key, I imagine.
> 
> As for Armani, I know he was very popular in the eighties and nineties, but the lower placement of the lapel notch, almost halfway down the lapel, was not very pleasing to me -- just personal taste, that's all.


You are correct on all points. However, one of my EA suits did not have the dropped lapel notch. It was my favorite. Light fabric too, but still a nice drape. Agree too that it is TOUGH to find a nice drape with light fabric. Seems to me, though, that it is with the light fabrics (i.e., summer time) when one needs both the light fabric AND the soft drape.


----------



## drpeter

peterc said:


> You are correct on all points. However, one of my EA suits did not have the dropped lapel notch. It was my favorite. Light fabric too, but still a nice drape. Agree too that it is TOUGH to find a nice drape with light fabric. Seems to me, though, that it is with the light fabrics (i.e., summer time) when one needs both the light fabric AND the soft drape.


Very true. Summerweight fabrics are hard to drape well. In winter, a classic grey/blue flannel suit will take care of drape very nicely. Perhaps a soft-finish tropical worsted _might _do the trick in the summer, depends again on weight and cut.

The Armani suit with a regular lapel notch would look terrific. I hope you still have it! If you are partial to Italian-cut suits, some of the current suit (and sports) jackets from Italy have a fairly high lapel notch and the lapels are a bit wider at the top. Some of the jackets worn by Simon Crompton, who writes the Permanent Style blog, are made by various Neapolitan tailors and carry this look.

One of my teachers in this business, the admirable and very well-dressed G Bruce Boyer, once wrote that a half-inch change one way or the other in things like lapel width constitutes a revolution in men's styles! Very true indeed.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I see the Asian influence in her dress now that you pointed it out, but never having been anywhere in Asia, let alone spent part of my childhood there, as you note, it isn't something I would naturally pick up.
> 
> That said, having grown up in the '70s, there were plenty of secretaries still dressed kinda that way then as - despite our popular image of the polyester '70s - many people, especially those in business, still adhered to a pre-late-'60s dress code.
> 
> We used to pay our gas bill in person in those days and my Dad or Mom would drive up and I'd run in with the check to pay. When you went in, there were several secretaries or clerks - all women, always - behind the glass partition where you paid who looked and dressed like that women or an older version of her.
> 
> To your other point, maybe there's something about that age for a boy, for I, too, remember crushing on a teacher then despite not knowing what to do about it if the opportunity (in some parallel universe) had presented itself.


I think boys (and men) are rather alike all over, no matter which culture they are raised in, LOL.


----------



## drpeter

peterc said:


> You are correct on all points. However, one of my EA suits did not have the dropped lapel notch. It was my favorite. Light fabric too, but still a nice drape. Agree too that it is TOUGH to find a nice drape with light fabric. Seems to me, though, that it is with the light fabrics (i.e., summer time) when one needs both the light fabric AND the soft drape.


This old article by Bruce Boyer might interest you, if you have not seen it already.

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/the-style-and-quality-of-brioni-menswear-7396


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## peterc

Drpeter, thank you. I will read the link.


----------



## peterc

drpeter said:


> Very true. Summerweight fabrics are hard to drape well. In winter, a classic grey/blue flannel suit will take care of drape very nicely. Perhaps a soft-finish tropical worsted _might _do the trick in the summer, depends again on weight and cut.
> 
> The Armani suit with a regular lapel notch would look terrific. I hope you still have it! If you are partial to Italian-cut suits, some of the current suit (and sports) jackets from Italy have a fairly high lapel notch and the lapels are a bit wider at the top. Some of the jackets worn by Simon Crompton, who writes the Permanent Style blog, are made by various Neapolitan tailors and carry this look.
> 
> One of my teachers in this business, the admirable and very well-dressed G Bruce Boyer, once wrote that a half-inch change one way or the other in things like lapel width constitutes a revolution in men's styles! Very true indeed.


I bought that EA suit in about 1990 in Vancouver where I am from and outgrew it in about 1995 or so. By outgrew, I mean I put on weight. I also seem to have bulked out in the shoulders and upper arms, probably from 24+ years of lugging the wife's artwork around, etc. Not that I mind. I can only imagine what I would like if I hadn't bulked up a bit. My waist measures 40+ inches.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42518


Great illustration, but did they ever serve Coca Cola in glasses that small? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Great illustration, but did they ever serve Coca Cola in glasses that small? :icon_scratch:


I don't know, but I'm going to say yes because I've seen them (at least I estimate they were that size) in some really old diners and (maybe) in a book I read a long time ago on the history of Coke. The original bottles of coke ⇩ were only 6.5 ounces. So, it's not crazy to think that the original glasses of Coke sold (from soda fountains) were also pretty small by today's standards.


----------



## FiscalDean

I think most things including the average American's waistline were smaller then. Not sure when everything was supersized!


----------



## Peak and Pine

The coffee industry still regards a cup as 6 ounces. But the mugs that many use hold about 12. When you see a a banner on a coffee can touting 50 cups worth, they're talking about the little 6-ounce standard. I drink 10 cups a day. In dinner mugs from the 40s that hold only the coffee standard. So that would equal about 5 of what you might drink in your giant World's Best Dad type mug things.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> The coffee industry still regards a cup as 6 ounces. But the mugs that many use hold about 12. When you see a a banner on a coffee can touting 50 cups worth, they're talking about the little 6-ounce standard. I drink 10 cups a day. In dinner mugs from the 40s that hold only the coffee standard. So that would equal about 5 of what you might drink in your giant World's Best Dad type mug things.


My Yeti Mugs hold 14ozs and he thermal capabilities of the mug(s) keep every one of those 14 ozs piping hot, right down to the last swallow! Legend has it that I drink two of those in the AM and as many as three more in the afternoon. That equates to a whole lot of trips to the bathroom, for us older fellows. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ If I needed more than my all-but-unused suits and ties today, I'd buy a light gray summer suit to wear with a pink OCBD and black knit tie (I know, his tie does not look knit, but his outfit still inspired the thought).

For today ⇩


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ If I needed more than my all-but-unused suits and ties today, I'd buy a light gray summer suit to wear with a pink OCBD and black knit tie (I know, his tie does not look knit, but his outfit still inspired the thought).
> 
> For today ⇩
> View attachment 42592


The gray suit with pink shirt and black tie is a great look. I recently watched a movie with Gene Kelly, I don't recall the name of the movie but I do remember his character sporting that combination.

BTW, I do like this illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> The gray suit with pink shirt and black tie is a great look. I recently watched a movie with Gene Kelly, I don't recall the name of the movie but I do remember his character sporting that combination.
> 
> BTW, I do like this illustration.


Possibly you are referring to what Kelly wore in a chunk of "It's Always Fair Weather?"









I love that outfit - the collar bar is a nice addition, plus the suit is just so well tailored.

He does an entire (and pretty famous) skating scene in the same outfit:


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Possibly you are referring to what Kelly wore in a chunk of "It's Always Fair Weather?"
> View attachment 42593
> 
> 
> I love that outfit - the collar bar is a nice addition, plus the suit is just so well tailored.
> 
> He does an entire (and pretty famous) skating scene in the same outfit:


That is the movie. Than ks


----------



## Oldsarge

I've been advised that a pink shirt underneath a navy suit (3-piece, preferably) is a great combination for catching the ladies' attention.


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## Fading Fast

The first firm I worked for on Wall Street in the '80s was an "old line" firm in both a good and not so good way. The good was that it still had a "hand-shake" morality where reputation and honesty were woven into its culture. The good was also that men that dressed just like this guy were well represented. The good was also that I remember a few of those (I think) circa 1950s chairs still in some of the offices - they weighed a billion pounds, squeaked relentless and were comfortable as heck. I also remember a bunch of briefcases that looked just like that - some that I bet were fifty or more years old as they had an insane - and I mean insane - amount of wear and tear (but they were still holding together).


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## Fading Fast




----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42688


WOW, so many possible comments.


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## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> WOW, so many possible comments.


Yup. Definitely not up to today's standards of correctness.


----------



## Oldsarge

A more appropriate form of Oogling.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42688


Oh my! 😻


----------



## ran23

Reminds me of coming home and seeing my front door on the evening News. Turns out my neighbor was a Bookie. phone lines and fax machine.


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## Fading Fast

ran23 said:


> Reminds me of coming home and seeing my front door on the evening News. Turns out my neighbor was a Bookie. phone lines and fax machine.


That's awesome - maybe not at the time, but a cool story.

Two really good bookie movies from the '50s are:

*711 Ocean Drive,* my comments here: #24020

*The Captive City,* my comments here:  #319


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ If I needed more than my all-but-unused suits and ties today, I'd buy a light gray summer suit to wear with a pink OCBD and black knit tie (I know, his tie does not look knit, but his outfit still inspired the thought).
> 
> For today ⇩
> View attachment 42592


I love dove grey for summer suits and trousers. I have several trousers in that colour, but no sportcoats or suits. It is hard to find 100% cotton light grey suits, although there are plenty of summer-weight, tropical worsteds in that colour. And pink and grey (light or dark) is a splendid combination. For me, a very dark red or maroon tie would go well with the light grey suit and a pink soft collar shirt.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I love dove grey for summer suits and trousers. I have several trousers in that colour, but no sportcoats or suits. It is hard to find 100% cotton light grey suits, although there are plenty of summer-weight, tropical worsteds in that colour. And pink and grey (light or dark) is a splendid combination. For me, a very dark red or maroon tie would go well with the light grey suit and a pink soft collar shirt.


For years in the '80s and '90s, when Haspel and competitors put out poplin suits in a bunch of colors, I owned a few light and medium grey summer poplins. I loved those suits, but haven't seen a grey poplin in (guessing) 20 years.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42844


An understandable difference of opinion, eh?


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> For years in the '80s and '90s, when Haspel and competitors put out poplin suits in a bunch of colors, I owned a few light and medium grey summer poplins. I loved those suits, but haven't seen a grey poplin in (guessing) 20 years.


Interesting. Were those Haspel summer suits made of 100% cotton poplin or a blend of cotton and polyester fibres?


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> An understandable difference of opinion, eh?


Yes, a "battle of the sexes" moment. I love the flash of his coat's tartan liner and her silly but cute pocketbook.



drpeter said:


> Interesting. Were those Haspel summer suits made of 100% cotton poplin or a blend of cotton and polyester fibres?


Good question. Some were blends; some were 100% cotton. Some of the Haspels were blends - but I think some where all cotton, but don't remember that with any conviction.

Some of the other brands were 100% cotton as I remember buying several Lord and Taylor house brand suits (no idea who made them for L&T) on a crazy season ending sale (75% off or something like that - you did have to tuck them away until next summer, but so what) that were 100% cotton.

The blends, also from memory, weren't uncomfortable or "polyester-ish." All of my Ivy-wearing clothing "tutors" said it was okay that they were blends - it was "accepted" in the summer poplin suits. The real mistake most - not all - of them made was that they were fully lined which made them warmer. I have a clear memory of an unlined tan one that was heaven - light as heck, breathed well, etc.

If we ever return to suit-wearing world (I know, stop laughing), If I could, I go MTM and get several all-cotton, unlined ones made...but alas.


----------



## Flanderian

Cotton/poly summer suits were cooler than all cotton. But most did not wear as well, and smokers would soon _swiss-cheese _them. Cotton/poly wicks much better than all cotton.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Yes, a "battle of the sexes" moment. I love the flash of his coat's tartan liner and her silly but cute pocketbook.
> 
> Good question. Some were blends; some were 100% cotton. Some of the Haspels were blends - but I think some where all cotton, but don't remember that with any conviction.
> 
> Some of the other brands were 100% cotton as I remember buying several Lord and Taylor house brand suits (no idea who made them for L&T) on a crazy season ending sale (75% off or something like that - you did have to tuck them away until next summer, but so what) that were 100% cotton.
> 
> The blends, also from memory, weren't uncomfortable or "polyester-ish." All of my Ivy-wearing clothing "tutors" said it was okay that they were blends - it was "accepted" in the summer poplin suits. The real mistake most - not all - of them made was that they were fully lined which made them warmer. I have a clear memory of an unlined tan one that was heaven - light as heck, breathed well, etc.
> 
> If we ever return to suit-wearing world (I know, stop laughing), If I could, I go MTM and get several all-cotton, unlined ones made...but alas.


Thanks for this information. I used to think absolutely no poly anywhere, but in recent years I have relaxed that rule a bit. As long as the garment looks and feels right, and isn't shiny, I will wear it.

As for wearing suits or sport coats, sometimes one can wear something without regard to how others are dressed. I regularly wear a suit and tie (or at least blazer and grey flannels with a tie) if I'm attending a memorial service for a friend or colleague who has passed away. I am in the minority in most cases, but in this small college town, I have been pleasantly surprised at how many others wear jackets and ties, if not suits, at such events. Before the shutdown, I regularly dined out with a companion or a small group of friends, and I often wore a jacket and tie, and occasionally, a suit and tie. Yes, I do sometimes get comments like "You are all dressed up" or, since this is Wisconsin, "You clean up real good". I usually smile and say "Thank you". After all, I have all these clothes hanging in the closet, and hundreds of ties -- might as well wear them now and then, or else give them away! And I have done that too.


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## Fading Fast

Clearly more modern, but I thought his suit was illustrated very well.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Clearly more modern, but I thought his suit was illustrated very well.
> View attachment 42871


Likely mid-80's judging by the monitor.

But very *nice! *


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## London380sl

And set in Venice in an office in the Doges palace based on the background.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Likely mid-80's judging by the monitor.
> 
> But very *nice! *


I thought '80s or '90s as I had that giant monitor on my desk in both of those decades. We forget, but it was fantastic when flat screens came around - you got half your desk back.



London380sl said:


> And set in Venice in an office in the Doges palace based on the background.


Cool that you know it that precisely. I'd have said generic Venice but only because of the iconic gondola.


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## Fading Fast

And a bonus pic, quirky but I kinda like it:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42941
> 
> 
> And a bonus pic, quirky but I kinda like it:
> View attachment 42942


Now that second illustration shows us the way to properly pack for travel.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Now that second illustration shows us the way to properly pack for travel.


The only times I've seen something like that are in old movies where trunks pop up quite regularly in the pics from the '30s and '40s.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43016


The settings were not quite as elegant as those in your illustration, but I did in fact enjoy the opportunity on a couple of occasions during the mid to late 1970's to eat in rail dining cars. It was nice, but alas, just not that nice! LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The settings were not quite as elegant as those in your illustration, but I did in fact enjoy the opportunity on a couple of occasions during the mid to late 1970's to eat in rail dining cars. It was nice, but alas, just not that nice! LOL.


I had dinner in first class (business trip / expense account / cheaper than flying coach w/ cabs, etc.) on the Acela (Amtrak's high-speed train for the Northeast corridor) several years ago. Unfortunately, since they serve you in your passenger seat airplane style, it doesn't have much of the dinning car feel.

That said, a nicely attired "steward" did give you a menu, take your order (you didn't write your order down like the old way) and the food and service was all good, not great. Also, the plates were china (or some composite), silverware was decent (not real silver, but not plastic or insanely cheap) and the napkins were cloth.

It was far from your experience, but it still had a bit of the old train feel as, at one point, I was sitting in a nice comfortable seat, with decent food in front of me, while looking out the window as the night-time world whooshed by.

And since Acela's first class is basically populated with business people, most were nicely dressed. All in all, not bad, but still not a real old-style dining car experience.

When you ate in dining cars in the '70s, did you have to write your order down (like it was done in the Golden Era of train travel)?


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I had dinner in first class (business trip / expense account / cheaper than flying coach w/ cabs, etc.) on the Acela (Amtrak's high-speed train for the Northeast corridor) several years ago. Unfortunately, since they serve you in your passenger seat airplane style, it doesn't have much of the dinning car feel.
> 
> That said, a nicely attired "steward" did give you a menu, take your order (you didn't write your order down like the old way) and the food and service was all good, not great. Also, the plates were china (or some composite), silverware was decent (not real silver, but not plastic or insanely cheap) and the napkins were cloth.
> 
> It was far from your experience, but it still had a bit of the old train feel as, at one point, I was sitting in a nice comfortable seat, with decent food in front of me, while looking out the window as the night-time world whooshed by.
> 
> And since Acela's first class is basically populated with business people, most were nicely dressed. All in all, not bad, but still not a real old-style dining car experience.
> 
> When you ate in dining cars in the '70s, did you have to write your order down (like it was done in the Golden Era of train travel)?


As I recall, Stewards came to the table and took our orders. As you recalled from your experience the plates were china, napkins were cloth and the stainlessware had a bit of heft to it. Options were pretty limited and the quality was not quite up to the standards you would expect from a good, stationary, land based restaurant, but speeding along, watching the world slide by as we ate was a memorable experience, for sure.


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## Oldsarge

When my MIL and I took the Rocky Mountaineer from Vancouver BC to Banff and beyond, we sat and viewed the incomparable scenery from the second story dome car and went down for breakfast and lunch to the dining car beneath. The choices were limited but the food was excellent, the service professional, the company delightful and the view out the window, amazing. Come the day when we get to travel again, chaps, I strongly recommend that everyone take the opportunity. 

One word of caution, though, they will offer you a package that includes dinner in the 5-star hotels you spend the night in. (After all, one doesn't want to waste scenery on the night.) Don't bother. The breakfast, snacks, lunch and cocktail hour will satisfy anyone with the possible exception of a teenage boy. They try to feed you to death, just like on a cruise ship.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43161


Great illustration...I can't think of a better use of Tweed, but I would have used a bit more of it and turned those "plus 4's into a pair of real pants! Tweed bloomers just don't make it in my book. LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43247


Dashing chap, what? He looks like he drawing a saber out of his umbrella.


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## Fading Fast

Looks more '30s or '40s to me, but a cool ad nonetheless:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Looks more '30s or '40s to me, but a cool ad nonetheless:
> View attachment 43299


I think you are spot on with your dating of this illustration, but the style(s) reflected are seemingly timeless as those suits could work in today's business wardrobes.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I think you are spot on with your dating of this illustration, but the style(s) reflected are seemingly timeless as those suits could work in today's business wardrobes.


Nothing original in my statement here, but I agree with you, as the basic suit-shirt-tie design/construct that has held up 'till now was put in place in the '30s. To be sure, all sorts of tweaks and fashion cycles produced some quirky stuff throughout the ensuing years, but at a high level, a man's business wardrobe has stayed remarkably the same from the '30s to today (if you are one of the few still wearing a suit to work).

I've sat in meetings in the past ten years where men have worn pretty much what the guy sitting is wearing (usually it's a few shades darker grey and sans vest and hat) and the guy in the blue suit has on (sans hat again). I've even seen a few vests pop up on the younger and trendier kids (young men in their 20s) in that time period.


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## Dr.Watson

I think you can just see the top of some white bucks on the guy in the brown suit on the far right.


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## Fading Fast

Dr.Watson said:


> I think you can just see the top of some white bucks on the guy in the brown suit on the far right.


I think you are right - good catch.


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## Fading Fast

Bonus pic:


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43382


A great illustration that has so many stories to share with us, but also leaves us with so many questions unanswered. Like "what's with the flight of T-37 Tweets , suspended by barely visible strings from the ceiling and buzzing the bar, to the unexpressed delight of our patrons?" Jeez Louise, the blond sure looks familiar:icon_scratch: .


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration that has so many stories to share with us, but also leaves us with so many questions unanswered. Like "what's with the flight of T-37 Tweets , suspended by barely visible strings from the ceiling and buzzing the bar, to the unexpressed delight of our patrons?" Jeez Louise, the blond sure looks familiar:icon_scratch: .


Re your comment on the blonde in the hat, a bit of a Judy Holiday look (top) or Marylyn (bottom) with the body even Marylyn wishes she had:


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Nothing original in my statement here, but I agree with you, as the basic suit-shirt-tie design/construct that has held up 'till now was put in place in the '30s. To be sure, all sorts of tweaks and fashion cycles produced some quirky stuff throughout the ensuing years, but at a high level, a man's business wardrobe has stayed remarkably the same from the '30s to today (if you are one of the few still wearing a suit to work).
> 
> I've sat in meetings in the past ten years where men have worn pretty much what the guy sitting is wearing (usually it's a few shades darker grey and sans vest and hat) and the guy in the blue suit has on (sans hat again). I've even seen a few vests pop up on the younger and trendier kids (young men in their 20s) in that time period.


This discussion is evocative of one I've been having with friends on another forum regarding the differences in style changes between men and women. In male attire, and especially in business/work settings, there is very little room allowed for style changes. As @Fading Fast remarks, the suit has not changed fundamentally in almost a century! Some details change, but the basic set of differences in materials (wool, cotton, blends), colours (navy blue and grey, and variations on these), jacket styles (single vs double breasted), lapel widths (fairly narrow to very wide), jacket vents (single vs double) and trouser pleats (flat front vs pleated) are the major variations one can think of. (The one exception is the necktie, varying quite widely in colours and patterns, but still somewhat restricted for business wear). And these variations are fairly small.

For women, on the other hand, there's a much larger range of colors, materials, textures, design details etc., that are deemed acceptable, and even in business wear, there is a greater range permitted, especially in colors. For example, a red jacket (or even a red suit, on occasion), is deemed acceptable for women, while it would never work for men. True, outside of the business or work world, men's clothes are more relaxed and permit a somewhat greater range in materials, colours and so on, but even there, the rules are more stringent for men than for women.

This has not always been so. Before the advent of the modern suit, men did wear clothes that were far more colorful, with flourishes and details that one would never imagine a modern man would accept. Even the styles acceptable in the 18th century had more variations in them than modern-day suits. The rules for male attire were not that different, in terms of variety, from those for female attire. It's interesting to speculate what might have changed in the rules for attire between men and women, and how social changes during the different time periods may have influenced these rules. It's also noteworthy that the working class folks had a completely different set of rules, of necessity, for obvious reasons.

Just a few thoughts, that's all.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43494


Perhaps we are looking at the matriarch and the patriarch of the "Brady Bunch" consulting over the blueline drawings for their new, enlarged digs, sufficient to handle the crowd! But then again, maybe not?


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Perhaps we are looking at the matriarch and the patriarch of the "Brady Bunch" consulting over the blueline drawings for their new, enlarged digs, sufficient to handle the crowd! But then again, maybe not?


Possibly, but they look to me like they are thinking about starting or increasing the size of their existing brood - at least she does. I was impressed with how trad his clothes are. While not popular today, that multi-color striped blazer was very popular and, of course, his tie and khakis are possibly two of the most-iconic items from the Ivy Era.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43538


I used to work through such hassles with preparing our taxes, but these days we use an accountant. It is much less stressful that way and if Mrs Eagle ever brought me a tall, cold Schlitz, we would almost certainly have exchanged words...I am not a fan of the brand! Now Stella Artois in an iced mug...that's another story.


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## Oldsarge

Years ago my taxes got so complicated that my wife threw up her hands in despair (she was the money manager in the family) and decided we needed to do the same. It's expensive but when you realize that the documentation I take over there is a full inch thick, it's the only way to fly . . . er, file!


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

Might be a repeat:


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## Fading Fast

⇧ Suspenders, grey flannels and a leggy come-hither blonde, yet no response - interesting.

Well, we'll stay with the train theme for one more day (in part because of the collar bar), but this time, without the licentiousness.


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## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Suspenders, grey flannels and a leggy come-hither blonde, yet no response - interesting.
> 
> Well, we'll stay with the train theme for one more day (in part because of the collar bar), but this time, without the licentiousness.
> View attachment 43696


I'm still trying to determine what is more interesting than the leggy blonde.

By the looks of the two ladies above, it appears the fairer sex would choose a man in a suit over the "slob" in a sport coat without a tie.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Suspenders, grey flannels and a leggy come-hither blonde, yet no response - interesting.
> 
> Well, we'll stay with the train theme for one more day (in part because of the collar bar), but this time, without the licentiousness.
> View attachment 43696


I find myself left with this overpowering desire to book an overnight train trip. I seem to have a preference for leggy blondes. LOL. :icon_saint7kg:


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## Fading Fast

So what do we think the boy is wearing? It kinda looks like he has on a yellow cardigan sweater (vest?) under a (maybe) shawl-collar varsity sweater (that looks oddly short) - thoughts?


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## Oldsarge

Well, the overall attire wasn't up to the visuals shown here but I took that "Exciting new way to see the Northwest" on the Rocky Mountaineer a couple of years ago and it completely lived up to the billing. They tried to feed me to death, too.


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## Peak and Pine

Ye who rail against the young who no matter where they are have their faces stuck in a cell phone, take another look at those 50s swells aboard the Santa Fe in the triptych a few posts above roaring through some of the most glorious scenery the US has to offer in a specially built green-house type car in which to better see it all, and not a single one is looking out those vast windows, but involving themselves in themselves and their drinks and beer.


Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43697
> 
> So what do we think the boy is wearing? It kinda looks like he has on a yellow cardigan sweater (vest?) under a (maybe) shawl-collar varsity sweater (that looks oddly short) - thoughts?


Serious?
It's a blue varsity cardigan with yellow accents. Where you're seeing a shawl collar are sweater folds due to the way the kid is sitting and the oddly short blue sweater ---thinking maybe the assumed yellow sweater is showing underneath?--- is actually normal length, the yellow being an accent on the blue sweater's pocket tops.


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## xcubbies

I'd guess that the eating utensils today are plastic forks and plastic cups. But I'm not complaining. I'd traveled 3rd class around India in the '70s and enjoyed it. Of course that's before Ralph Lauren.


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## Oldsarge

Not on the Rocky Mountaineer! White table cloths, stainless flatware and china plates, thank-you very much. And effectively four meals a day! I hope it comes back after this lockdown is over. I could happily take that trip again.


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## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> I'd guess that the eating utensils today are plastic forks and plastic cups. But I'm not complaining. I'd traveled 3rd class around India in the '70s and enjoyed it. Of course that's before Ralph Lauren.


I travelled third class in trains many times in India in the sixties and early seventies, before I came to the US. Railway food in India was delicious. I mentioned Railway lamb curry in another thread recently.


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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I find myself left with this overpowering desire to book an overnight train trip. I seem to have a preference for leggy blondes. LOL. :icon_saint7kg:


And what will the lovely Mrs Eagle have to say about that train trip with sundry leggy blondes?


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## Fading Fast

Okay, let's do one more train one even though you have to enlarge this one a bit to enjoy the clothes like on the two young men chatting up the comely blonde.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43697
> 
> So what do we think the boy is wearing? It kinda looks like he has on a yellow cardigan sweater (vest?) under a (maybe) shawl-collar varsity sweater (that looks oddly short) - thoughts?


Note the yellow stripes circling the GLYM's (good looking young man's) upper left arm. I believe the lad is wearing a navy hued cardigan trimmed in yellow/gold hues (stripes around the sleeves and at the waist of the sweater and of course the rather striking gold trim encircling the neck and the button plack of the cardigan. Egad, please tell me that young cretin is not one of those misguided U of M fans. Damned Wolverines! LOL. 

PS: I can say the above because I am married to a female version of the critters in question. 😄


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Note the yellow stripes circling the GLYM's (good looking young man's) upper left arm. I believe the lad is wearing a navy hued cardigan trimmed in yellow/gold hues (stripes around the sleeves and at the waist of the sweater and of course the rather striking gold trim encircling the neck and the button plack of the cardigan. Egad, please tell me that young cretin is not one of those misguided U of M fans. Damned Wolverines! LOL.
> 
> PS: I can say the above because I am married to a female version of the critters in question. 😄


Thank you very much. I confused the yellow trim for a separate sweater - but in my defense, I suffer from VSBS*.

Since the girlfriend is a U of M grad, no bad words are uttered in our house against the Wolverines. That said, her Ohio State-grad dad and she argue about college sports all the time to the point of taunting each other when their team wins.

*Very small brain syndrome


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you very much. I confused the yellow trim for a separate sweater - but in my defense, I suffer from VSBS*.
> 
> Since the girlfriend is a U of M grad, no bad words are uttered in our house against the Wolverines. That said, her Ohio State-grad dad and she argue about college sports all the time to the point of taunting each other when their team wins.
> 
> *Very small brain syndrome


LOL, you just do not want to be in the Eagle's Crib on those ill fated, Fall Saturdays on which the Wolverines and the Nittany Lions do battle on the gridiron! We invite neighbors to join us in watching the game to maintain the peace. :crazy:

PS: Truth be known, while I would not put it on a par with Penn State, the University of Michigan is a fine institution of higher education. It is only on the gridiron that they are wanting!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL, you just do not want to be in the Eagle's Crib on those ill fated, Fall Saturdays on which the Wolverines and the Nittany Lions do battle on the gridiron! We invite neighbors to join us in watching the game to maintain the peace. :crazy:
> 
> PS: Truth be known, while I would not put it on a par with Penn State, the University of Michigan is a fine institution of higher education. It is only on the gridiron that they are wanting!


We don't even joke like that at the Fading Fasts. 

Possibly because my dad didn't go to college - so no family history and we didn't watch it much when I was growing up (one TV for years, so we watched what dad wanted to, period) - or because I went to Rutgers (horrible team), I have never cared much for college football, so I just keep quiet when the girlfriend and her father battle away as I have know desire to have any of those 16" guns turned on me.


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## Oldsarge

When I attended, my university had a football team but the members had 3.0+ GPA's. This is possible when the entire student body totals 2800. Shortly after I graduated, they dropped football and even now that the enrollment is 24,000, football exists not. So I very much don't care? Rugby, now, is a whole different story. Go Springboks!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43784


Each of us goes to the zoo hoping to observe our favorite forms of wildlife, and it can sometimes show, but jeez Louise, I wish they wouldn't stare so obviously...it makes me feel so self conscious! LOL. :amazing:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Each of us goes to the zoo hoping to observe our favorite forms of wildlife, and it can sometimes show, but jeez Louise, I wish they wouldn't stare so obviously...it makes me feel so self conscious! LOL. :amazing:


No kidding. I believe we've noted this before, but (by today's standards) creepy stares at the opposite sex was a thing in the advertising of the '50s as, I assume, they weren't interpreted as creepy back then.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

And here we have Gene Kelly from the 1955 movie "It's Always Fair Weather" saying, "hey, that guy in the back right of the illustration stole my outfit:"


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## Fading Fast

I'm guessing, based on the 5 cent price, pocket watch and the style of the clothes, '20s or '30s.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43960
> 
> I'm guessing, based on the 5 cent price, pocket watch and the style of the clothes, '20s or '30s.


The hat, the drink, the pocket watch, the soda fountain, hell, even the BLT sandwich....there is not a detail in that illustration that is not a classic!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The hat, the drink, the pocket watch, the soda fountain, hell, even the BLT sandwich....there is not a detail in that illustration that is not a classic!


And back when food portions were not gargantuan. Today, that sandwich would be two or three times as high.


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## Oldsarge

Well, people were smaller then, too.


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Well, people were smaller then, too.


Fair point, but people haven't doubled or tripled in size. Kidding aside, it really is amazing how much larger portions are today. As a fan of old movies, books, magazines, etc., the evidence - some from the pictures, some from actual size / weight descriptions - says portions were significantly smaller back then.

To your accurate point, people were, on the whole, smaller, but also, food was much more expensive relative to the average budget so, to keep it affordable, portions had to be smaller. And, of course, one of the results of today's larger portions has been the current obesity challenges.

Heck, if I could eat all the things I wanted to from those beautiful pictures of food and drink you post over in the "Food, Drink And Travel" thread, I'd be overweight as well.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> Well, people were smaller then, too.


LOL. Well I certainly was smaller back then...about 50 to 60 pounds is my guess! :crazy: But the good news is I'm working on it.


----------



## Oldsarge

I consider myself doing well to just remain where I am until I can get back to walking an hour or so a day.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

Now that is a full rise.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44098
> 
> Now that is a full rise.


That illustration shows us how Steve Urkel should have worn his pants. I think I actually like that rise...count me a fan. On a more confusing note, I can't beleive that with all the Pendleton Wool Board Shirts and Topsters I('ve) have(had) over the years, I cannot recall ever having purchased and/or worn any of their lighter weight cotton sport shirts.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Each of us goes to the zoo hoping to observe our favorite forms of wildlife, and it can sometimes show, but jeez Louise, I wish they wouldn't stare so obviously...it makes me feel so self conscious! LOL. :amazing:


The wonderful documentary filmmaker Bert Haanstra (_Glass, Rembrandt, Fanfare_ (feature), _The Human_ _Dutch_) made a delightful film called _Zoo_ in 1962, about people going to the zoo in Amsterdam ( and perhaps in other towns in the Netherlands). The beautiful conceit of the film is that it inverts the meaning of the zoo -- the people are on exhibit and the animals are the spectators. Come to think of it, we are one species in the animal kingdom, so I imagine the other species have as much of a right to inspect us as we do them. Many of the shots of the scenes are taken from inside the animal cages, so that to the film viewer, it is as though the people are the ones in a cage, and the animals the spectators. Here's a bit from the film, Haanstra is shown at the beginning, though his brief remarks are in Dutch:


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44125


Amazing! That's the first advert I've seen for Arrow (or any other) shirts that include _boxer shorts_ in matching fabric!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Amazing! That's the first advert I've seen for Arrow (or any other) shirts that include _boxer shorts_ in matching fabric!


Hard to imagine why one would care to match those things.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Hard to imagine why one would care to match those things.


Various lady friends of mine, at varying points in time, have quietly taken me into their confidence and informed me that they like to wear well-made, sexy lingerie precisely because it is underneath their clothes. They say it gives them pleasure and self-confidence, and improves their mood. But in my seventy years on this planet ( and a few on others ) I have never heard a man utter the word "underwear" in male company, let alone confide in anyone about how his underwear makes him feel. _Das ist verboten! _Which is why, that Arrow advert, seemingly appearing in the middle of the staid 1950s, is so surprising.

Besides we all know that most American men, present company excluded, of course, leave their underwear shopping, and some even their entire wardrobe, to their mothers and wives -- in that order, usually, since mothers come before wives, chronologically speaking. Clothes shopping? Infra dig, they say. To which I reply: _Das is verrückt !_


----------



## rl1856

drpeter said:


> Various lady friends of mine, at varying points in time, have quietly taken me into their confidence and informed me that they like to wear well-made, sexy lingerie precisely because it is underneath their clothes. They say it gives them pleasure and self-confidence, and improves their mood. But in my seventy years on this planet ( and a few on others ) I have never heard a man utter the word "underwear" in male company, let alone confide in anyone about how his underwear makes him feel. _Das ist verboten! _Which is why, that Arrow advert, seemingly appearing in the middle of the staid 1950s, is so surprising.


Yes. I have heard a few women express the same sentiment, calling it a personal luxury.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44185


Not on your life! I buy my clothes and always have. In fact, when dressing for special occasions, I helped her.

There seems to be, circulating through the collective mind, a desire to reactivate the nation's passenger rail service. Do you suppose that appropriate dress might follow (he said with a longing sigh)?


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Not on your life! I buy my clothes and always have. In fact, when dressing for special occasions, I helped her.
> 
> There seems to be, circulating through the collective mind, a desire to reactivate the nation's passenger rail service. Do you suppose that appropriate dress might follow (he said with a longing sigh)?


Hopefully, the desire we see now will actually lead to a real plan to revive rail travel.

My fear is that it will fade as it has before. It will take some serious money and we seem only willing to spend on roads and airports, but somehow believe rail should pay for itself when our other means of transportation don't.

As to dress - sadly, you know the answer, but I appreciate your spirit.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

⇧ I'm built similar to Mr. Brown-suit guy there and would be happy to have my suits proportioned and fit that way: natural shoulders, traditional suit jacket length, slim but not skinny or tight (and, obviously, not baggy or big). I even like cuffs on suit trousers.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44229


Wow! Looks like my childhood. 👍

Kid on the left looks like the one who shot me in the eye with a target arrow! (But he didn't mean it, he was aiming for my heart and I ducked! )


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## Fading Fast




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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44393


Very DAKS! 👍


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## Flanderian

'50'S fantasy -










50's reality!


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## Fading Fast

More '20s than '50s, but fun illustrations.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> More '20s than '50s, but fun illustrations.
> View attachment 44427
> View attachment 44428


Beautiful photo and illustration. :loveyou:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Beautiful photo and illustration. :loveyou:


Good catch - first is a photo.

The second one is from the '20s, but feels pretty timeless to me.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44469


An interesting and well drawn illustration, for sure, but I am surprised to learn of a shirt design inspired by the Chrysler Town and Country sedans/wagons. However, given the excess exhibited in design and size of those collars, the term wings must refer to that feature in the shirt design?


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> An interesting and well drawn illustration, for sure, but I am surprised to learn of a shirt design inspired by the Chrysler Town and Country sedans/wagons. However, given the excess exhibited in design and size of those collars, the term wings must refer to that feature in the shirt design?


I thought it was a neat, interesting and, as you note, confused one too. Cleary not all 1950s men's clothing was Ivy. And, yes, weird to cite a car as the design inspiration for a clothing line, but Madison Avenue does what Madison Avenue does. They should have hired Don Draper, he'd never have produced this muddle.

Proving the copywriter had no real clue, the ad avers that these shirts would be "at home behind a desk." To be sure, not all '50s offices were grey suits, white shirts and rep ties, but really?


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## Oldsarge

Contractors have desks, too.


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Contractors have desks, too.


Fair point, I'm sure there were some offices where that would work. But in the 1950s, the majority of office workers were not wearing those type of shirts to their nine-to-five jobs.


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## Fading Fast

The text gets pretty fuzzy when I enlarge it, but I think the suit came with a pocket square that matches the lining which seems odd in and of itself and odder still for a corduroy suit.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44502
> 
> The text gets pretty fuzzy when I enlarge it, but I think the suit came with a pocket square that matches the lining which seems odd in and of itself and odder still for a corduroy suit.


I am more into corduroy jackets than suits, but I really like the look of the suit in the illustration. Please tell me the gentleman is wearing flesh tone hued socks with those penny loafers!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I am more into corduroy jackets than suits, but I really like the look of the suit in the illustration. Please tell me the gentleman is wearing flesh tone hued socks with those penny loafers!


I think those are yellow-ish socks to echo the color of the jacket lining and (apparently) pocket square.

I've owned a few corduroy jackets over the years (many years ago), but never a suit as I don't believe I had ever had an occasion to wear one. The times I've needed suits - work or things like weddings, etc. - all called for suits more formal than corduroy.

I did enjoy the corduroy sport coats and, if the right one popped up, would be open to adding one to my overstocked sport coat inventory.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44502
> 
> The text gets pretty fuzzy when I enlarge it, but I think the suit came with a pocket square that matches the lining which seems odd in and of itself and odder still for a corduroy suit.


Great illustration! And a cool suit. 👍

One gimmick(?) of the era used by some brands was to make the lining of the breast pocket from the same satin as the jacket lining and construct it so that it could be pulled out of the pocket to form a puff in place of a conventional PS.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration! And a cool suit. 👍
> 
> One gimmick(?) of the era used by some brands was to make the lining of the breast pocket from the same satin as the jacket lining and construct it so that it could be pulled out of the pocket to form a puff in place of a conventional PS.


That sounds one step worse than what we have here: the matching PS to lining event.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44543


His rig showcases the physique of a slightly built teenager rather well. I can remember once being built like that and being able to remember that far back would indicate my present day memory hasn't yet gotten all that bad! LOL.


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## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> His rig showcases the physique of a slightly built teenager rather well. I can remember once being built like that and being able to remember that far back would indicate my present day memory hasn't yet gotten all that bad! LOL.


In my case, it's a question of whether I'm calling up memories or fantasies . . .


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> His rig showcases the physique of a slightly built teenager rather well. I can remember once being built like that and being able to remember that far back would indicate my present day memory hasn't yet gotten all that bad! LOL.





Oldsarge said:


> In my case, it's a question of whether I'm calling up memories or fantasies . . .


One very smart woman I worked with years ago said "every strength has its weakness and vice versa."

Took me awhile to get it, but she was spot on.

I have been built like that kid (6'1" 150lbs) my entire life. At 55 I can still fit into my college sizes.

The plus is I don't put on weight. The weakness is plenty of women have no interest in the guy that gets sand kicked in his face by the Atlases of the world on the beach. Also, my appetite has shrunk a lot, which also sounds good until you realize how many things that you used to do entailed a big meal that you can no longer partake in.

I know it isn't meant with malice, but I'm pretty tired of hearing "you eat like a bird."

None of these are big problems in any way, but it's just a reminder that the grass always look greener than it is over there.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> His rig showcases the physique of a slightly built teenager rather well. I can remember once being built like that and being able to remember that far back would indicate my present day memory hasn't yet gotten all that bad! LOL.


LOL, as someone who spent his career doing research on attention and memory, I would like to ask the usual question: Can you remember what you had for breakfast, say, two days ago?

Quips aside, our memory for older events remains fairly stable and accessible, it is the more immediate and short-term stuff that we have trouble with. One compelling example: I will think of doing something in the kitchen when I am working in my study, but when I walk into the kitchen fifteen seconds later, I have no idea what it is that I came there for -- this is a familiar experience to many of my friends who are my age, and I'll be 70 this August. A Regent at my university once told me that he had an outstanding short-term memory, but it was very, very, very short!

A particularly poignant example of memory and its loss that I remember (pun intended): Years ago, one of my colleagues, Dennis, had a party at his place, and many of the folks in my department were there. Denny's Dad was staying with him, and at eighty, the old boy was still quite sprightly but in the early stages of dementia, and beginning to have memory issues. I had a long conversation with him and he talked in great detail about being in Europe with the US Army during the Battle of the Bulge. Being a military history buff (especially WWII) I listened with great interest as Denny's Dad recounted some of his experiences in combat, and also the fact that he did not care for the French, but liked the Belgians, at least those he encountered in the Ardennes! Later, my colleague told me that his Dad would not be able to remember what they had done the previous day.

Right now, I am taking care of my 84-year-old neighbour Gloria, in the downstairs flat. She lives alone and often forgets to eat, so I make nice meals and sit with her and share those meals two or three times a week. I listen to her stories patiently, although she has repeated them many times. All we can do is be there for people who had led full lives, but are now beginning to lose some of it. Memory is the one thing that gives us our sense of identity and self. This is why memories are distributed all over the brain, so that damage in any one region does not take away all of them. When someone is losing memory, all we can do is give them our attention and love, whoever they might be. That's the whole point of being human.


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## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> LOL, as someone who spent his career doing research on attention and memory, I would like to ask the usual question: Can you remember what you had for breakfast, say, two days ago?
> 
> Quips aside, our memory for older events remain fairly stable and accessible, it is the more immediate and short-term stuff that we have trouble with. One compelling example: I will think of doing something in the kitchen when I am working in my study, but when I walk into the kitchen fifteen seconds later, I have no idea what it is that I came there for -- this is a familiar experience to many of my friends who are my age, and I'll be 70 this August. A Regent at my university once told me that he had an outstanding short-term memory, but it was very, very, very short!
> 
> A particularly poignant example of memory and its loss that I remember (pun intended): Years ago, one of my colleagues, Dennis, had a party at his place, and many of the folks in my department were there. Denny's Dad was staying with him, and at eighty, the old boy was still quite sprightly but in the early stages of dementia, and beginning to have memory issues. I had a long conversation with him and he talked in great detail about being in Europe with the US Army during the Battle of the Bulge. Being a military history buff (especially WWII) I listened with great interest as Denny's Dad recounted some of his experiences in combat, and also the fact that he did not care for the French, but liked the Belgians, at least those he encountered in the Ardennes! Later, my colleague told me that his Dad would not be able to remember what they had done the previous day.
> 
> Right now, I am taking care of my 84-year-old neighbour Gloria, in the downstairs flat. She lives alone and often forgets to eat, so I make nice meals and sit with her and share those meals two or three times a week. I listen to her stories patiently, although she has repeated them many times. All we can do is be there for people who had led full lives, but are now beginning to lose some of it. Memory is the one thing that gives us our sense of identity and self. This is why memories are distributed all over the brain, so that damage in any one region does not take away all of them. When someone is losing memory, all we can do is give them our attention and love, whoever they might be. That's the whole point of being human.


A thoughtful and compassionate perspective ....thank you for that!


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> LOL, as someone who spent his career doing research on attention and memory, I would like to ask the usual question: Can you remember what you had for breakfast, say, two days ago?
> 
> Quips aside, our memory for older events remain fairly stable and accessible, it is the more immediate and short-term stuff that we have trouble with. One compelling example: I will think of doing something in the kitchen when I am working in my study, but when I walk into the kitchen fifteen seconds later, I have no idea what it is that I came there for -- this is a familiar experience to many of my friends who are my age, and I'll be 70 this August. A Regent at my university once told me that he had an outstanding short-term memory, but it was very, very, very short!
> 
> A particularly poignant example of memory and its loss that I remember (pun intended): Years ago, one of my colleagues, Dennis, had a party at his place, and many of the folks in my department were there. Denny's Dad was staying with him, and at eighty, the old boy was still quite sprightly but in the early stages of dementia, and beginning to have memory issues. I had a long conversation with him and he talked in great detail about being in Europe with the US Army during the Battle of the Bulge. Being a military history buff (especially WWII) I listened with great interest as Denny's Dad recounted some of his experiences in combat, and also the fact that he did not care for the French, but liked the Belgians, at least those he encountered in the Ardennes! Later, my colleague told me that his Dad would not be able to remember what they had done the previous day.
> 
> Right now, I am taking care of my 84-year-old neighbour Gloria, in the downstairs flat. She lives alone and often forgets to eat, so I make nice meals and sit with her and share those meals two or three times a week. I listen to her stories patiently, although she has repeated them many times. All we can do is be there for people who had led full lives, but are now beginning to lose some of it. Memory is the one thing that gives us our sense of identity and self. This is why memories are distributed all over the brain, so that damage in any one region does not take away all of them. When someone is losing memory, all we can do is give them our attention and love, whoever they might be. That's the whole point of being human.


My 87-year-old mom and my girlfriend's 87-year-old mom and 91-year-old dad all have terrible short-term memory loss. The challenge, as you note, is they can remember perfectly something that happened 40 years ago, but getting them to take their medicines, eat (never a problem for her dad as he would eat through Armageddon - he forgets everything but to eat), take out the garbage, etc. is incredibly hard.

My girlfriend and I are doing our best with help (not cheap) to manage it, but it is very hard. Also, as you note, all they want to tell you is their favorite stories. So, our conversations are all the same - my girlfriend and I checking on the day to day "did you eat, take your medicines, etc." and them telling us some story from 40 years ago - "I got out of the Navy..." "That's great dad, but did mom put in her hearing aids this morning?"

We try our best, but every single day is a challenge.


----------



## Oldsarge

Breakfast three days ago? Hmmm, whole wheat pancakes with a fried egg on top. Two days? Yogurt with blueberries. I'm pretty good with food but as drpeter intimated, in my early 70's I find myself concerned with the Hereafter. I walk into a room and ask myself, 'What am I here after?' My 93 year old MIL lives in a retirement community. In about ten years, I'm going to be looking for one of those myself. All these people getting their homes remodeled for the day when they will require a walker or a wheelchair are missing the point. It's not the getting around, it's knowing where to go.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> My 87-year-old mom and my girlfriend's 87-year-old mom and 91-year-old dad all have terrible short-term memory loss. The challenge, as you note, is they can remember perfectly something that happened 40 years ago, but getting them to take their medicines, eat (never a problem for her dad as he would eat through Armageddon - he forgets everything but to eat), take out the garbage, etc. is incredibly hard.
> 
> My girlfriend and I are doing our best with help (not cheap) to manage it, but it is very hard. Also, as you note, all they want to tell you is their favorite stories. So, our conversations are all the same - my girlfriend and I checking on the day to day "did you eat, take your medicines, etc." and them telling us some story from 40 years ago - "I got out of the Navy..." "That's great dad, but did mom put in her hearing aids this morning?"
> 
> We try our best, but every single day is a challenge.


I greatly respect both you, Fading Fast, and your girlfriend for both the industry you display and your compassion for your elders! Knowing you, even if just in Cyber space makes my world just a little bit better! You are good people.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> One very smart woman I worked with years ago said "every strength has its weakness and vice versa."
> 
> Took me awhile to get it, but she was spot on.
> 
> I have been built like that kid (6'1" 150lbs) my entire life. At 55 I can still fit into my college sizes.
> 
> The plus is I don't put on weight. The weakness is plenty of women have no interest in the guy that gets sand kicked in his face by the Atlases of the world on the beach. Also, my appetite has shrunk a lot, which also sounds good until you realize how many things that you used to do entailed a big meal that you can no longer partake in.
> 
> I know it isn't meant with malice, but I'm pretty tired of hearing "you eat like a bird."
> 
> None of these are big problems in any way, but it's just a reminder that the grass always look greener than it is over there.


@Fading Fast, if I may offer a humble suggestion, I think the women you will really enjoy being with for the longer term, the ones with whom you might share a companionate love, are those who will appreciate qualities other than your physique or its particular proportions. I have had a fair bit of experience and success in this area, and while I am considered handsome by women, I think what they find attractive in me are the qualities of mind that really override physical appearance. An intelligent man with a sense of fairness and decency, someone with sincerity, integrity and carefully developed standards of behaviour -- such a man will almost always be attractive to the majority of women. And for some reason, speaking English with a foreign accent is considered very "hot" by women, so I lucked out on that, having been brought up speaking the Queen's English. By the way, the qualities I mentioned, surprisingly enough, will make you attractive to little children and animals too -- cats, dogs, horses. Maybe they like foreign accents too, LOL.

The most important quality that will endear you to women is the quality of silence. An attentive silence, and the ability to listen carefully to what they have to say, and to NOT offer a solution to every problem they present! The way men are structured they seek instant solutions to every problem they come up with. This is a great skill when you are repairing a motorcycle (personal experience) but it is a real liability when conversing with a woman (also personal experience).

All that said, there's another way to be fatally attractive to a certain type of woman. And that is by being utterly and comprehensively bad. For unknown reasons, many women seem to run after men who are really awful for them and awful to them. As a psychologist, I have found this fascinating, but the women I have talked to can't figure it out either.


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## Oldsarge

Indeed. Look at Charles Manson.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> My 87-year-old mom and my girlfriend's 87-year-old mom and 91-year-old dad all have terrible short-term memory loss. The challenge, as you note, is they can remember perfectly something that happened 40 years ago, but getting them to take their medicines, eat (never a problem for her dad as he would eat through Armageddon - he forgets everything but to eat), take out the garbage, etc. is incredibly hard.
> 
> My girlfriend and I are doing our best with help (not cheap) to manage it, but it is very hard. Also, as you note, all they want to tell you is their favorite stories. So, our conversations are all the same - my girlfriend and I checking on the day to day "did you eat, take your medicines, etc." and them telling us some story from 40 years ago - "I got out of the Navy..." "That's great dad, but did mom put in her hearing aids this morning?"
> 
> We try our best, but every single day is a challenge.


Hearing aids! LOL, my neighbour whom I am helping take care of, has hearing aids, and she often misplaces them. So one of my first tasks when taking her meals is to find the hearing aids! I have learned the likely places, so I am getting good at it!


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Breakfast three days ago? Hmmm, whole wheat pancakes with a fried egg on top. Two days? Yogurt with blueberries. I'm pretty good with food but as drpeter intimated, in my early 70's I find myself concerned with the Hereafter. I walk into a room and ask myself, 'What am I here after?' My 93 year old MIL lives in a retirement community. In about ten years, I'm going to be looking for one of those myself. All these people getting their homes remodeled for the day when they will require a walker or a wheelchair are missing the point. It's not the getting around, it's knowing where to go.


This is wonderful, Oldsarge. You should be getting your own show on the Comedy Channel. I love your lines about the Hereafter, and about knowing where to go.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Indeed. Look at Charles Manson.


You're on a roll, Oldsarge! Yes, look at Charles Manson, the ultimate bad lad. At eighty plus he almost got married to a 25-year-old, didn't he?


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I think those are yellow-ish socks to echo the color of the jacket lining and (apparently) pocket square.
> 
> I've owned a few corduroy jackets over the years (many years ago), but never a suit as I don't believe I had ever had an occasion to wear one. The times I've needed suits - work or things like weddings, etc. - all called for suits more formal than corduroy.
> 
> I did enjoy the corduroy sport coats and, if the right one popped up, would be open to adding one to my overstocked sport coat inventory.


There's a particular combination of a chestnut brown medium-wale corduroy jacket and mid-grey flannels that look quite stunning, especially with an open-necked cream or white shirt.


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## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> You're on a roll, Oldsarge! Yes, look at Charles Manson, the ultimate bad lad. At eighty plus he almost got married to a 25-year-old, didn't he?


Well, they got a marriage license but it expired. The story is very weird, but then it's Manson.


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## Fading Fast

This is an odd ad:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> This is an odd ad:
> View attachment 44635


LOL...nothing odd about that ad. The gentleman simply chose not to tuck his shirt into his shorts. However the ad does illustrate the wisdom in my admonition that real nen should not wear shorts...leave that task to the boys among us!


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> LOL...nothing odd about that ad. The gentleman simply chose not to tuck his shirt into his shorts. However the ad does illustrate the wisdom in my admonition that real nen should not wear shorts...leave that task to the boys among us!


This word, _shorts_, is used to denote underpants (boxer shorts), as well as regular shorts in the US, but elsewhere they are only used to denote regular shorts. Where I grew up, boys wore shorts until they were around 14 or so -- old enough for long trousers. I think I wore short and long sleeved shirts (the long sleeves always folded up a couple of times to be about midway through on each forearm) with shorts. They were tucked in unless they were so-called "Manila" shirts that were tailored to be worn outside the shorts. The fashion then was to make the shorts really short, and they were worn with a belt, or more common ly with metal D-ring style buckles into which a strip of cloth attached to the sides of the shorts' waistband could be tucked in and tightened. I got my first pair of cotton drill long trousers around my 14th birthday (fourth form in school, which would be eighth grade here in our country). I was thrilled to be considered a real man, wearing long pants!


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44665


It appears we are watching a "back-in-the-day" version of the late afternoon or early evening news (and depending on the location of the radio station), but there is so much going on in this illustration. What's going on with that desk pad? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> It appears we are watching a "back-in-the-day" version of the late afternoon or early evening news (and depending on the location of the radio station), but there is so much going on in this illustration. What's going on with that desk pad? :icon_scratch:


I was really impressed with the artistic talent of this one.


----------



## Oldsarge

I think that's a console, not a desk pad.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> It appears we are watching a "back-in-the-day" version of the late afternoon or early evening news (and depending on the location of the radio station), but there is so much going on in this illustration. What's going on with that desk pad? :icon_scratch:


I agree it is a console, and looks a bit like a desk pad because it is green. The phone appears to be plugged into an outlet on the left side, and there are other outlets and a dial of some sort on the left side. The gentleman on the left with the mustache (I think he has one) reminds me of the legendary Walter Cronkite, just a bit.

Interesting mix of clocks showing the times at locations that were then deemed to be important: Tokyo, GMT, New York, Moscow/Cairo, London/Berlin, as far as I can make out. The date, from these, could be 1960. (Nasser, the Berlin Airlift and so forth). Of course, Cairo and Berlin are my guesses, after examining the image with a stamp magnifier -- handy because I have been working on stamps!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44700


I've always wondered about that name: Cricketeer. As a former cricket player myself (usually cricketer, not cricketeer), I doubt if I have seen any cricket player wear a suit when involved in playing the game! At most they might wear a dark blue sports blazer with a crest indicating the Club, University or Team they belong to, and that too only when shaking hands with some dignitary before a match (example, a Test match between England and India, and the Queen goes out and shakes hands (or just says hello) to the players). The game is traditionally played wearing whites, and often in cold weather, a cream coloured sweater with bands of colour indicating teams, clubs, etc.

If anyone knows about the origin of this brand name, I'd love to know. Maybe this is a Ralph Lauren type scheme in which they have appropriated the name of a sport.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I've always wondered about that name: Cricketeer. As a former cricket player myself (usually cricketer, not cricketeer), I doubt if I have seen any cricket player wear a suit when involved in playing the game! At most they might wear a dark blue sports blazer with a crest indicating the Club, University or Team they belong too, and that too only when shaking hands with some dignitary before a match (example, a Test match between England and India, and the Queen goes out and shakes hands (or just says hello) to the players). The game is traditionally played wearing whites, and often in cold weather, a cream coloured sweater with bands of colour indicating teams, clubs, etc.
> 
> If anyone knows about the origin of this brand name, I'd love to know. Maybe this is a Ralph Lauren type scheme in which they have appropriated the name of a sport.


Good color and I'd love to know too.

My first post-college suit was a Cricketeer in 1985. Actually, it was two as the store was running a special and I needed to get suits (probably why I bought the Cricketeers, memory is vague here, also, I didn't now squat about suit brands anyway then).

These were my first not-cheap Robert Hall suits (the ones you buy for weddings, etc. when you're in high school or college - at least kids did that back then). The Cricketeers were so much better than the junk I had bought to that point that they seemed like the best suits in the world to me.

Also, I was tired of being the kid out of college wearing grey slacks and a blue blazer to work because he couldn't afford a suit - so it was a big step up in many ways for me.


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## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> I've always wondered about that name: Cricketeer.


The term _cricketeer_ has nothing to do with the sport of cricket. A _cricketeer_ is someone who raises crickets for foul purposes, such as putting them on your Rice Krispies and telling you they're 'moveable' raisins. Snap, crackle and pop. With added chirp.


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## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> The term _cricketeer_ has nothing to do with the sport of cricket. A _cricketeer_ is someone who raises crickets for foul purposes, such as putting them on your Rice Krispies and telling you they're 'moveable' raisins. Snap, crackle and pop. With added chirp.


And, hey, added protein! Let's not forget that.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Meant to note the shoes in this one ⇧ for my friend @Flanderian.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

'30s or '40s - my guess.


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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast

⇧ wonderful one. And, just me guessing, with his 46" shoulders and 34" waist, he needs custom to fit his 12" drop.


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## Fading Fast

John Philip Falter

My favorite thing is the tile floor, followed by the man's boots.


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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 44951


A perfect example of the invincibility of men's fashion/style(s)...sort of like certain heavy bomber designs, such as the B17 and the venerable B52 A/C design. The B-52 has been in service for six decades and still flies combat missions. Now, that's American ingenuity!


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## Oldsarge

In some cases with the granddaughter of the original pilot behind the controls!


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## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> √












Ah for the days when, much like with a cab, you could hail down a passing plane as the lady at Gate No. 7 is doing.


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## Fading Fast

'

And a Sunday bonus pic from Pendleton:








Did fathers and sons really do this in the '50s - dress in the same outfit? I can't imagine they did. Rest assured, growing up in the '70s, my dad and I never, not once, dressed in the same outfit. In general, we didn't even talk that much - not from rancor, just his parenting style and my acceptance of it.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45007
> '
> 
> And a Sunday bonus pic from Pendleton:
> View attachment 45008
> 
> Did fathers and sons really do this in the '50s - dress in the same outfit? I can't imagine they did. Rest assured, growing up in the '70s, my dad and I never, not once, dressed in the same outfit. In general, we didn't even talk that much - not from rancor, just his parenting style and my acceptance of it.


I never wanted to be and hope I am not in any way anything like my old man. If there ever was any item of clothing that was like his, I would have taken it out and burned it, even if it was a Pendleton shirt! And I do so love my Pendleton shirts, Topsters, etc. LOL.


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## Fading Fast

More John Philip Falter









Plus a Monday Bonus pic (out of season). Not that much clothing beyond the crew neck sweater and the tie in the background, but a neat illustration. Also, very war-time ad if you read it.


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast

⇧ Very, very nice.

⇩ So what is it with Pendleton and matching outfits? First, fathers and sons and now couples.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Very, very nice.
> 
> ⇩ So what is it with Pendleton and matching outfits? First, fathers and sons and now couples.
> View attachment 45067


I do so love the Topster design, but I can't say I would ever intentionally wear a "matching outfit" with the wife, walking through life looking like a couple of misguided Twinkies! LOL. I can only wonder how many of those matching rigs they managed to sell?


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I do so love the Topster design, but I can't say I would ever intentionally wear a "matching outfit" with the wife, walking through life looking like a couple of misguided Twinkies! LOL. I can only wonder how many of those matching rigs they managed to sell?


It's nuts - right? Pendleton ads from that time show - as we've seen - fathers and sons and husbands and wives in matching outfits. And the two Pendleton ads I posted are just two of many like that from Pendleton.


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## Fading Fast

This one feels like a dupe (the thread's getting really long) but not sure; so if it is, let's call it a "best of" like a call-in radio show when the host is off.


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## poppies

What's the story with all the rail passenger illustrations in the 50s?


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## Oldsarge

poppies said:


> What's the story with all the rail passenger illustrations in the 50s?


Bos-Wash corridor commuters.


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## Fading Fast

poppies said:


> What's the story with all the rail passenger illustrations in the 50s?


If I'm interpreting your question correctly, I think the answer is, in part, that the rial industry came out of WWII optimistic that its business would do great going forward, but the growth of autos (and the building of highways) combined with the increase in passenger airline service crushed its business, so it tried, via advertising, to fight back.


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## Oldsarge

And now that the carbon footprint of both the internal combustion automobile and the jet aircraft are starting to cause folks to reconsider their travel modes, maybe their time has finally returned. One can hope. I like trains.


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> And now that the carbon footprint of both the internal combustion automobile and the jet aircraft are starting to cause folks to reconsider their travel modes, maybe their time has finally returned. One can hope. I like trains.


I am a huge train fan. Living in NYC, I've been fortunate to have good commuter trains and Amtrak's northeast corridor service, a service Amtrak has invested in. Especially since 9-11, I've found going to Boston or Washington on the train makes more sense than flying and is immensely more enjoyable.

That said, this country has underinvested in passenger rail service since WWII. Maybe the reasons you note and that the younger generation does not seem to be a car-culture one, will change the politics. If we want to have real passenger train travel in this country, it's going to take a massive investment.


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## Fading Fast

Another John Philip Falter








A few years back, we bought off of Ebay a desk very similar to the ones pictured (but with a flat, not slanted, top) to use as our night table. Could not have worked out better and looks awesome - like the ones here do.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I am a huge train fan. Living in NYC, I've been fortunate to have good commuter trains and Amtrak's northeast corridor service, a service Amtrak has invested in. Especially since 9-11, I've found going to Boston or Washington on the train makes more sense than flying and is immensely more enjoyable.
> 
> That said, this country has underinvested in passenger rail service since WWII. Maybe the reasons you note and that the younger generation does not seem to be a car-culture one, will change the politics. If we want to have real passenger train travel in this country, it's going to take a massive investment.


Rebuilding mass transit should be one of those mythical infrastructure projects the wannabe elected officials talk so much about and the elected officials seem to promptly forget about! Should that cabal of crooks in Washington, DC, don't soon get the lead out, this great Republic of ours is going to crumble. Recall if you will those two hundred year old dams that failed in Michigan, just a month or so back? 
:crazy:


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## Oldsarge

Politicians seem to have this adoration of building new things while letting the established ones to to Hell. 'Repair' seems to be a word that isn't in their vocabularies. Or 'remove' for that matter.


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Politicians seem to have this adoration of building new things while letting the established ones to to Hell. 'Repair' seems to be a word that isn't in their vocabularies. Or 'remove' for that matter.


Sadly, and I guess we, the voters, are guilty too, as the political payoff for the politician is the new project. "I built you this bridge, this new building, this new subway line" are popular vote getters. It is much less politically profitable to say I repaired your bridge, fixed a bunch of roads, installed new rails on an existing line, etc.


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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> And now that the carbon footprint of both the internal combustion automobile and the jet aircraft are starting to cause folks to reconsider their travel modes, maybe their time has finally returned. One can hope. I like trains.


Agreed. I have _always_ loved trains -- on three continents. My Dad worked for Malayan Railways during colonial days, right through WWII and the Japanese Occupation (trains needed to run, so the Japanese did not wipe out railway personnel). I grew up watching trains in marshalling yards and my Dad taught me about the difference between shunting engines and locomotive engines, how points worked to switch tracks, etc. Trains are wonderful, and I am sorry to see how they were more or less destroyed by the automobile industry's machinations. Maybe they will come back.

Here's a tidbit only a psychologist (like yours truly) would know! _Siderodromophilia _-- being sexually aroused by travelling in trains. How cool is that? And yet, think of the romance of train travel in the movies: Cary Grant and Eva Marie-Saint in Hitchcock's _North by_ _Northwest_, to take one terrific example.


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## Oldsarge

My late wife and I watched David Suchet travel the Orient Express from London to Istanbul. We wanted that trip! I still do.


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## Fading Fast

Since we seem to be enjoying the train pics, I looked for another one for today.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Since we seem to be enjoying the train pics, I looked for another one for today.
> View attachment 45232


There was a time, back in the 1970's that we enjoyed taking extended trips on the rails. Sitting back comfortably and watching the world go by, dining on the train, enjoying being gently rocked to sleep by the motion of the moving train...so many good things to remember. However on more recent rides on the rails, sadly I've noted that the rails frequently don't pass through the most picturesque landscapes, many times passing through the most distressed urban areas. The food is minimal fare, dressed as being that of more elegant circumstance and the sleeping arrangements are a well worn seat, reclined perhaps a few degrees to arguably facilitate one's attempts to catch some zzzzz's. Alas, the concept sounds romantic and yet the reality is a much more sobering experience!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> There was a time, back in the 1970's that we enjoyed taking extended trips on the rails. Sitting back comfortably and watching the world go by, dining on the train, enjoying being gently rocked to sleep by the motion of the moving train...so many good things to remember. However on more recent rides on the rails, sadly I've noted that the rails frequently don't pass through the most picturesque landscapes, many times passing through the most distressed urban areas. The food is minimal fare, dressed as being that of more elegant circumstance and the sleeping arrangements are a well worn seat, reclined perhaps a few degrees to arguably facilitate one's attempts to catch some zzzzz's. Alas, the concept sounds romantic and yet the reality is a much more sobering experience!


I've been lucky as, living in NYC, my Amtrak experiences have been, overall, pretty good. But I've only done long day trips - six hours is about the max I've been on a train in one shot. And while we've never done an overnight train, we have had some wonderful into-the-evening runs along the northeast corridor, up to Maine and along the Hudson River. We went up to Maine once in a snowstorm that was, possibly, the prettiest trip we've ever taken (and nice to know the train, barring extreme snow, which this wasn't, doesn't usually have any issues with the snow versus cars and planes).

The northeast corridor runs through a bit of everything - some of the distressed urban areas you note, but also some old factory towns with humongous early-20th-century red-brick factories - some in various states of decay and some "repurposed" for apartments or tech cos, etc - that are impressive to see. The NE corridor also runs along some beautiful areas of the Connecticut coast and through some pretty areas in Rhode Island and Massachusetts.

As mentioned, another Amtrak line I've been on is the "Downeaster," which runs from Boston up to Maine and is, overall, a visual treat of pretty old towns, Maine scenery and some of the old factories I mentioned earlier. The last line we've taken now and again is out of NYC up to Saratoga Springs which runs, mainly, along the old 20th Century Limited "water-level route" abutting the Hudson River. The views on that route are so pretty that even though you bring a book, you end up looking out the window most of the time.

Since the NE corridor is Amtrak's most profitable route, they take pretty good care of it and run the new (and pretty nice) Acela cars, so comfort and service have all been good on those trips. Even the other lines I mentioned are pretty high-traffic lines, so Amtrak takes decent care of those trains as well. Food, as you note, has changed over the years to where now it's not much more than pre-package cafeteria stuff, but we know that and usually bring some light snacks of our own.

It's not perfect by any stretch, but where possible, we take the train versus driving or flying as its pluses, at least for us, outweigh the negatives. We haven't done any overnights because the places we tend to fly to either don't have direct trains or the train takes several days which doesn't fit our schedule (work and all).


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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> My late wife and I watched David Suchet travel the Orient Express from London to Istanbul. We wanted that trip! I still do.


Indeed. I would love to be on that train in one of those storied _wagons-lit_.

I suppose you also watched Kenneth Branagh on the Orient Express in the 2017 version. That was going the other way, from Istanbul to London via Simplon. There was also Albert Finney as Poirot in the 1974 version.

It's a popular train with thriller writers. Graham Greene did _Stamboul Express _ and there was a stretch of the same train in Fleming's _From Russia with Love_: Bond and Tatyana on the train escaping from Istanbul withe code machine Lekter, the assassin "Grant" trying to kill Bond in that fight inside the sleeping compartment. It is my top favourite of all the Bond films, the best one made, hands down.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Indeed. I would love to be on that train in one of those storied _wagons-lit_.
> 
> I suppose you also watched Kenneth Branagh on the Orient Express in the 2017 version. That was going the other way, from Istanbul to London via Simplon. There was also Albert Finney as Poirot in the 1974 version.
> 
> It's a popular train with thriller writers. Graham Greene did _Stamboul Express _ and there was a stretch of the same train in Fleming's _From Russia with Love_: Bond and Tatyana on the train escaping from Istanbul withe code machine Lekter, the assassin "Grant" trying to kill Bond in that fight inside the sleeping compartment. It is my top favourite of all the Bond films, the best one made, hands down.


Proving my train geekiness, I have seen everyone you note, plus twenty more.

I have on my DVR right now, "I am a Thief" from 1934, which I recorded in large part because most of the movie takes place on the Orient Express (based on the write ups - haven't seen it yet).

I'm close in agreement with you re Bond, as my favorite Bond is any of the first three.


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## Peak and Pine

Amtrak began service to southern Maine a few years ago. All passenger service to the state had stopped 60 years ago. My father and I were aboard the last sleeper out, bound for NYC, taking me there to visit colleges. NYC at 16 was my idea (quite a swell one as it turned out) Below is the station we left from, Union Station in Portland, Maine.










The following year, 1961, the Bright Bulbs of Go to Hell Preservation did this...


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## Oldsarge

My one long train trip since I was 14 and going to Philmont Scout Ranch was in August of '16 when my MIL and I took the Rocky Mountaineer from Vancouver, BC to the Canadian Rockies and back. Comfort was superb, meals were excellent and plenteous, snacks and alcohol flowed . . . it was like being on a cruise ship without the bother of endless flat ocean. We spent the night in 5-star hotels. No sense wasting wonderful scenery on the night, after all.


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## Fading Fast

Some more for Friday afternoon to glide-path us into the weekend. I believe Old Sarge's trip had a dining car much like the first pic:


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## Oldsarge

More like the second, actually. The car was a two story model with dome and seating on top and the galley and dining car beneath. The dining car most resembled a 'diner car' though the booths had white table cloths, china, stainless flatware and multiple glasses. We ate in shifts. While one shift had breakfast, the remainder had morning snacks. Then we traded places. In the afternoon, one shift had a mid-day dinner and the other had aperitifs and hors d'oeuvres and vice-versa. The company offered discounted supper in the hotels. Should anyone consider this trip, avoid the hotel meals. It's not that they weren't grand but after being fed to death on the train all day, you really don't feel like anything larger than a nightcap. Great trip.

And, as usual, I have no financial interest in this company.


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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> More like the second, actually. The car was a two story model with dome and seating on top and the galley and dining car beneath. The dining car most resembled a 'diner car' though the booths had white table cloths, china, stainless flatware and multiple glasses. We ate in shifts. While one shift had breakfast, the remainder had morning snacks. Then we traded places. In the afternoon, one shift had a mid-day dinner and the other had aperitifs and hors d'oeuvres and vice-versa. The company offered discounted supper in the hotels. Should anyone consider this trip, avoid the hotel meals. It's not that they weren't grand but after being fed to death on the train all day, you really don't feel like anything larger than a nightcap. Great trip.
> 
> And, as usual, I have no financial interest in this company.


One of the exquisite night trains from my childhood: The North Star Night Express from Kuala Lumpur to Singapore in the early to mid-1950s. Each group of sleeping compartments had its own steward, smartly turned out in a white drill uniform, who made up the beds for you and turned down the sheets. One could get a nightcap, including Horlicks or Ovaltine for the kids. And newspapers in five languages. Those were the pluses. The minuses? Malaya was in the middle of a shadow war then (Communist Insurrectionists vs the British), so there were often unplanned stops on the line when we would wait for the unmanned mine trolley to be sent forward to trip any possible land mines that the rebels may have laid on the railway line. There were steel shutters on all the windows and notices, again in five languages, instructing you to close the shutters and lie on the floor in case of firing heard down the line. It was high adventure for a six-year-old! Also a bit scary, but my Dad was with me, and he could handle anything, I believed. There's a time for reason, and a time for blind faith in one's father, LOL.


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## Fading Fast

A beautiful train (designed by noted industrial designer Henry Dreyfuss) and what appears to be a classic brown herringbone overcoat.

When I first started commuting into NYC from New Brunswick, NJ, because New Brunswick was on the "mainline" (the Washington to Boston Northeast corridor tracks), I could take an Amtrak train as it accepted commuter rail tickets (crazy, but true).

Those interiors looked a lot like the one in the bottom left insert. When I could, I tried to time my commute to the Amtrak schedule as its trains were so much nicer and more comfortable than the local commuter ones.


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## eagle2250

Snowbird friends of ours, choosing to winter in Florida, took the train from New York to Florida. Their car was put on a vehicle transport train car and the humans rode with the other passengers and slept in their seats. Meals were included , but from our conversations, it seemed like most of the meals were taken off the train. When they arrived in Florida, they were reunited with their vehicle and drove on to FT Myers, FL, where they enjoyed a very mild winter. Perhaps our next trip north will be on the train.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Snowbird friends of ours, choosing to winter in Florida, took the train from New York to Florida. Their car was put on a vehicle transport train car and the humans rode with the other passengers and slept in their seats. Meals were included , but from our conversations, it seemed like most of the meals were taken off the train. When they arrived in Florida, they were reunited with their vehicle and drove on to FT Myers, FL, where they enjoyed a very mild winter. Perhaps our next trip north will be on the train.


No clothing images, but a very nice ad from (shockingly) the '70s when Amtrak first started the Auto Train to Florida:


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## Fading Fast

Clearly not '50s - looks '20s to me - but a nice illustration from an O'Connell's email a day or two ago.









And one more train one - a pic, but still kinda neat.
:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Clearly not '50s - looks '20s to me - but a nice illustration from an O'Connell's email a day or two ago.
> View attachment 45310
> 
> 
> And one more train one - a pic, but still kinda neat.
> :
> View attachment 45311


If that email was from the O'Connell's we all know and love, I'm pretty sure they still have almost all of those rigs in stock. Who among us would not enjoy a fresh, new Boater?


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## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> If that email was from the O'Connell's we all know and love, I'm pretty sure they still have almost all of those rigs in stock. Who among us would not enjoy a fresh, new Boater?


Me, for one. My head is an extra long oval and I have to have hats soft enough to bend around it. Boaters won't, in my experience.


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## Fading Fast

My guess, '20s or '30s. I just really like the artwork


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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Snowbird friends of ours, choosing to winter in Florida, took the train from New York to Florida. Their car was put on a vehicle transport train car and the humans rode with the other passengers and slept in their seats. Meals were included , but from our conversations, it seemed like most of the meals were taken off the train. When they arrived in Florida, they were reunited with their vehicle and drove on to FT Myers, FL, where they enjoyed a very mild winter. Perhaps our next trip north will be on the train.


When I did my sabbatical stint in the Netherlands and then travelled around NL and Europe by train, one of the features available was the bicycle car. You bought a ticket for yourself and one for your bike (not expensive), put your bike in the bike car, and travelled in the passenger cars. At your destination you picked up your bike and was all set to explore the destination city. The Dutch bicycle everywhere, and the first thing my host did when I got to the University of Amsterdam was to take me to a bike shop! I got a bike put together by the shop owner, from parts -- and the joke was that I was never to ask where those parts came from! As a result I learned to navigate every street in Amsterdam and knew the city completely in about three months. And it was great exercise, and the fastest way to get around the city. I definitely did not miss my four-wheeler. For many years now, I do everything by bike from late spring to early fall, even grocery shopping.


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## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> When I did my sabbatical stint in the Netherlands and then travelled around NL and Europe by train, one of the features available was the bicycle car. You bought a ticket for yourself and one for your bike (not expensive), put your bike in the bike car, and travelled in the passenger cars. At your destination you picked up your bike and was all set to explore the destination city. The Dutch bicycle everywhere, and the first thing my host did when I got to the University of Amsterdam was to take me to a bike shop! I got a bike put together by the shop owner, from parts -- and the joke was that I was never to ask where those parts came from! As a result I learned to navigate every street in Amsterdam and knew the city completely in about three months. And it was great exercise, and the fastest way to get around the city. I definitely did not miss my four-wheeler. For many years now, I do everything by bike from late spring to early fall, even grocery shopping.


What a great way to travel. A sturdy bike is a great way to get around and stay in great shape, all in one effort! My 30 year old Schwinn S-10 hangs patiently in the garage, patiently waiting for the next ride.


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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> What a great way to travel. A sturdy bike is a great way to get around and stay in great shape, all in one effort! My 30 year old Schwinn S-10 hangs patiently in the garage, patiently waiting for the next ride.


Perhaps you can take it down from those hooks, apply some chain lube, tune it up a little, fill the tyres with air, and go for a short ride. It'll do you a power of good!


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## Fading Fast

A few with some trad/ivy clothing tying into our current theme of bicycles.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> A few with some trad/ivy clothing tying into our current theme of bicycles.
> View attachment 45421
> View attachment 45422
> View attachment 45423


The young man is holding his own in that race with the North American F-86 Sabre Jet....AKA the MIG killer!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> A few with some trad/ivy clothing tying into our current theme of bicycles.
> View attachment 45421
> View attachment 45422
> View attachment 45423


I adore these classic Raleighs, indestructible and versatile in any weather! I have two of them in my stable, a Superbe and a Sport, both with the classic Sturmey-Archer three-speed shift and the hub gear. The Sport looks brand new, since I got it free from my secretary (years ago when I chaired my university department) who fell off it and wanted to give it away.

That S-A is one enclosed gear system you do NOT want to take apart. There are multiple tiny springs inside that will fly out if you are not extremely careful. Only for the real experts to dismantle and repair. Mostly you only need to oil the hub through a port that is accessible when you place the bike upside down, resting on a tarp. You then let the oil soak in for a day or two, so that it does not leak out of the oil port. Getting the cotter pin out of the bottom bracket is also a dodgy business, but I have done it. And all the tolerances are of the British variety, very strange to an American mechanic. (Hehe, just like the MG sports cars!).

There are really fancy multi-speed enclosed gear hubs now -- Rohloff with 14, Shimano with 8, last I checked. One of these days, I'll build a bike around a Rohloff (the hub alone is about $1500, LOL). One of these days...

In the fifties, the Brits used to ride these bikes to work in all kinds of weather. Unlike most bikes, you can change gears while you are standing still (at a stop light, say). On the weekends, they used to race with these bikes, heavy as they are (45 lbs on average). But they are a classic, and a fine vintage model is a pleasure to ride around town. Or, one can put on tweed clothes and country hats and go on the Tweed Ride!


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> The young man is holding his own in that race with the North American F-86 Sabre Jet....AKA the MIG killer!


Wow! I'm impressed, my acquiline friend. An F-86 Sabre Jet -- that's a very precise identification.


----------



## Oldsarge

That's the first time I've seen a tandem with the man in the rear seat. In all the years I've ridden bikes (and I only learned to balance a two-wheeler at 21!) I've only ever seen tandems with the rear seat set up for the smaller (usually female) parter. I wonder why that is . . .


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> That's the first time I've seen a tandem with the man in the rear seat. In all the years I've ridden bikes (and I only learned to balance a two-wheeler at 21!) I've only ever seen tandems with the rear seat set up for the smaller (usually female) parter. I wonder why that is . . .


Yes, usually the stoker tends to be a woman, so that picture is perhaps an early sign of the coming women's liberation.

I learned to canoe when i was in my thirties -- I did not grow up with canoes, but I had ridden motor boats and an early version of the jet ski (motorcycle engine and impeller attached to a flat-bottomed boat, an invention of a friend of mine long before jet skis). At any rate, years ago, I was canoeing with my ex-wife (who grew up with them) and so she was in the back steering and I was in the front. A group of kids on the shore shouted to us that this was all wrong, I should be in the back and she should be in the front! I suppose these gender roles are part of our enculturation.


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## Fading Fast

⇩ And a pic, but on theme I think


----------



## drpeter

I was unsure whether I should start a new thread or attach this post to the current thread because I had mentioned the topic a while back in this thread. It has to do with tussore/tussah silk. Here is G Bruce Boyer on the subject, writing with his customary flair and eloquence:

https://www.drakes.com/usa/editorial/the-tussah-silk-jacket/


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I was unsure whether I should start a new thread or attach this post to the current thread because I had mentioned the topic a while back in this thread. It has to do with tussore/tussah silk. Here is G Bruce Boyer on the subject, writing with his customary flair and eloquence:
> 
> https://www.drakes.com/usa/editorial/the-tussah-silk-jacket/


Wonderful article. I remember growing up in the '70s seeing men wearing suits in the summer of slubbed silk that look just look the material in those jackets.

When I got to Wall Street in the '80s, those suits were considered "wrong" for summer office attire (poplin yes, slubbed silk no).

Since then, I've rarely seen a slubbed silk suit, but the sport coats pop up now and again in the stores. From memory, I think J.Crew, a few years back, did a slubbed silk suit.


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple more bicycle ones (the second one is really an ad for playing cards):


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45540


Having ridden the South Shore & South Bend railway into downtown Chicago for more than a few years, I can really identify with the pictured plight of those commuters! :crazy:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Having ridden the South Shore & South Bend railway into downtown Chicago for more than a few years, I can really identify with the pictured plight of those commuters! :crazy:


My commuting days were all New Jersey into New York, but the general experience was the same.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> A couple more bicycle ones (the second one is really an ad for playing cards):
> View attachment 45505
> View attachment 45506


I almost won a beautifully preserved Rudge bicycle on eBay some years ago -- lost it at the last minute to a bidder who obviously wanted it more than I did! I think Rudge was every bit as good as Raleigh, although the latter was more popular. Rudge bikes are not easy to find, especially in fine condition.


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## Fading Fast

And another train one


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45601
> 
> 
> And another train one
> View attachment 45602


Now hold on just a minute...he's carrying her over the threshold and out of the building. Perhaps that explains why SWMBO went nuclear on me several years back, when I picked her up and carried her over the threshold and into our new home? LOL, I must have been going in the wrong direction! 

The second picture is nice train picture though.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Now hold on just a minute...he's carrying her over the threshold and out of the building. Perhaps that explains why SWMBO went nuclear on me several years back, when I picked her up and carried her over the threshold and into our new home? LOL, I must have been going in the wrong direction!
> 
> The second picture is nice train picture though.


I got nothing on the top pic as to what's going on - maybe you called it. I just liked his suit.


----------



## Oldsarge

Nah, he's about to turn around and carry her across the threshold into their newly purchased Brownstone . . . paid for with her money, naturally.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge

Bowling? In a TIE?


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Bowling? In a TIE?


Seems kinda kooky, but a lot of men, one, didn't have any "play" clothes and, two, just wore a tie all the time.

My very poor grandfather wore a tie everyday of his life for whatever he did. He'd come over in the summer, we'd be sitting on the back porch and my mom and dad would sometimes be able to convince him to take it off, but otherwise, I never saw him not wearing a tie.

If you're bowling in one, you definitely want a tie bar on.


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## Fading Fast

Might be a dupe, but a neat train one:


----------



## Oldsarge

Alright, what are those three looking at so surreptitiously? Who is waking up and dressing in that Pullman car next to them? :devil:


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## Fading Fast

Since it's hard to see the clothes in that one ⇧, we'll do one more for today ⇩


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45807
> 
> 
> Since it's hard to see the clothes in that one ⇧, we'll do one more for today ⇩
> 
> View attachment 45808


The top illustration is a great advertisement for rail travel or commuting...relaxing as you allow others to deal with the realities of existing weather conditions is a great sales point!


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## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> The top illustration is a great advertisement for rail travel or commuting...relaxing as you allow others to deal with the realities of existing weather conditions is a great sales point!


Having driven through that kind of storm a time or two, I agree!


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Having driven through that kind of storm a time or two, I agree!


I love not dealing with all that driving stuff. And, most of the time (not always), basic bad weather doesn't impact trains. I've taken Amtrak between NYC and Boston too many times to remember and often in rain or snow that would make driving hard or impossible.


----------



## Fading Fast

Snark is easy and cheap, so I try to keep my snarky comments to a minimum, but that woman is way too excited about getting a new TV.

Also, looking at the gentleman's shirt collar on the far right, I think he has on a collar pin as the collar is indented the way it usually is with a collar pin and I almost think I can see the pin's end holding down the collar next to the tie. If so, it's neat that the illustrator did that.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45861
> 
> Snark is easy and cheap, so I try to keep my snarky comments to a minimum, but that woman is way too excited about getting a new TV.
> 
> Also, looking at the gentleman's shirt collar on the far right, I think he has on a collar pin as the collar is indented the way it usually is with a collar pin and I almost think I can see the pin's end holding down the collar next to the tie. If so, it's neat that the illustrator did that.


My guess is that that TV is perhaps the first TV on their block and it's being delivered to "their" house. It's always exciting to one-up the neighbors in the "keeping up with the Joneses" competition! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with TVs for one more day. Note his argyle socks and penny loafers.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with TVs for one more day. Note his argyle socks and penny loafers.
> View attachment 45910


The name's Biff...Biff Astaire, Freds more athletic and perhaps less graceful brother! LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

Granted, this one is more about the train, but Mr. Tan Double Breasted Suit guy is looking pretty sharp.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46032
> 
> Granted, this one is more about the train, but Mr. Tan Double Breasted Suit guy is looking pretty sharp.


What struck me is Ms Tan Jacket freshening her makeup using the mirror-like outside surface of the train's engine cab. A not-so-compact mirror? Very clever!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> What struck me is Ms Tan Jacket freshening her makeup using the mirror-like outside surface of the train's engine cab. A not-so-compact mirror? Very clever!


Agreed, very cool touch from the advertising department.

Based on these pics of the actual train, I'm guessing it was possible if the light was right:


----------



## Fading Fast

And if you really want to geek out on the train (not that I would ever do something like that ), there's this very neat short video of the train in action. It looks particularly cool coming out of a tunnel.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And if you really want to geek out on the train (not that I would ever do something like that ), there's this very neat short video of the train in action. It looks particularly cool coming out of a tunnel.


A great video, but come on...you can't leave us hanging like that! Did the Zepher get the iron lung across country in time to save the life of the RR President's son? There are some of us who will lie awake all night wondering if the train arrived on time. Well, did it?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A great video, but come on...you can't leave us hanging like that! Did the Zepher get the iron lung across country in time to save the life of the RR President's son? There are some of us who will lie awake all night wondering if the train arrived on time. Well, did it?


Good question.

So, I did a little internet research and I think it's a plot from a movie not a real event.

First piece of evidence is from this Google book search:

Extract:​"The Burlington Zephyr represented just the first of what would become ... In the movie, the President's son contracts polio and is in immediate need of an iron lung. ... speeds across the continent, delivering it in time to save the President's son."​​Link: https://books.google.com/books?id=E30rCBeM8nkC&pg=PA290&lpg=PA290&dq=zephyr+iron+lung+save+son+of+president&source=bl&ots=DXShsD9ijh&sig=ACfU3U22HWnFzPxa8x3qK1IvIiXdHwVpIg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjc-vT6kaXqAhU1ZDUKHWIXAtEQ6AEwCXoECAwQAQ#v=onepage&q=iron lung&f=false​
And the second piece of evidence which seems to support the above:
​ This from on on-line review on the IMDB page for the 1934 movie "The Silver Streak:"​"In this RKO pictures, the crew of the Pioneer Zephyr diesel train has 19 hours to deliver an iron lung to a town in NV who needs urgent medical attention. Who can arrange for such an extravaganza display of power and action, yes, it has to be a rich father paying everything he has for saving his son. This is a most courageous plot fabrication belonged to the Silver Streak (1934)."​​link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0027000/​
Not definitive, but seems to argue this was just a movie plot. I had no idea of that until you asked the question as I assumed it was a real story too.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Good question.
> 
> So, I did a little internet research and I think it's a plot from a movie not a real event.
> 
> First piece of evidence is from this Google book search:
> 
> Extract:​"The Burlington Zephyr represented just the first of what would become ... In the movie, the President's son contracts polio and is in immediate need of an iron lung. ... speeds across the continent, delivering it in time to save the President's son."​​Link: https://books.google.com/books?id=E30rCBeM8nkC&pg=PA290&lpg=PA290&dq=zephyr+iron+lung+save+son+of+president&source=bl&ots=DXShsD9ijh&sig=ACfU3U22HWnFzPxa8x3qK1IvIiXdHwVpIg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjc-vT6kaXqAhU1ZDUKHWIXAtEQ6AEwCXoECAwQAQ#v=onepage&q=iron lung&f=false​
> And the second piece of evidence which seems to support the above:
> ​ This from on on-line review on the IMDB page for the 1934 movie "The Silver Streak:"​"In this RKO pictures, the crew of the Pioneer Zephyr diesel train has 19 hours to deliver an iron lung to a town in NV who needs urgent medical attention. Who can arrange for such an extravaganza display of power and action, yes, it has to be a rich father paying everything he has for saving his son. This is a most courageous plot fabrication belonged to the Silver Streak (1934)."​​link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0027000/​
> Not definitive, but seems to argue this was just a movie plot. I had no idea of that until you asked the question as I assumed it was a real story too.


It is sufficiently convincing for me...a contrived plot, but quite the exciting yarn, none-the-less. Thank you, Sir, you have put my mind at ease and I will be able to sleep soundly tonight!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> It is sufficiently convincing for me...a contrived plot, but quite the exciting yarn, none-the-less. Thank you, Sir, you have put my mind at ease and I will be able to sleep soundly tonight!


I'm surprised I've never seen the movie pop up on TCM or one of the other old movie channels. I'll keep my eye out for it and let you know it its coming up.


----------



## Fading Fast

Two for today as one or both might be dupes:


----------



## Oldsarge

Wikipedia discusses a film in which the Zephyr delivers an iron lung to Boulder Dam. The plot is even more contrived than what we've been discussing. Movies, sheesh!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46191


Are we looking at a shoe salesman hawking his wares or one of SWMBO's willing victims preparing to minister to the aches and pains of a vixen who has just spent an overly long day on her feet? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Are we looking at a shoe salesman hawking his wares or one of SWMBO's willing victims preparing to minister to the aches and pains of a vixen who has just spent an overly long day on her feet? LOL.


I got nuttin'. I couldn't get my hands around that one in any G-rated way.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Are we looking at a shoe salesman hawking his wares or one of SWMBO's willing victims preparing to minister to the aches and pains of a vixen who has just spent an overly long day on her feet? LOL.


Or he could have just finished reading Ashley Montagu's _The Natural Superiority of Women_, and is getting ready to be of service...


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46274


May we assume those Clipper Craft Suits just "flew" off the racks? LOL.

Sorry...I just couldn't stop myself!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> May we assume those Clipper Craft Suits just "flew" off the racks? LOL.
> 
> Sorry...I just couldn't stop myself!


Cute.

Great example of how much better the '60s did "skinny" suits than they are done today. The proportions still respect the human body.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46361
> View attachment 46362


Get a load of the prices listed in those ads! I could re-do my entire wardrobe for a mere pittance.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Get a load of the prices listed in those ads! I could re-do my entire wardrobe for a mere pittance.


Remember, though, your annual salary was probably about $1500, so if you go all crazy ordering $2 - $5 shirts, the kids will go hungry.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Get a load of the prices listed in those ads! I could re-do my entire wardrobe for a mere pittance.


The gentleman in the top picture is wearing plus fours, which had largely disappeared from common wear by the late 1930s, except in golfing. So those prices might be from a time as far back as the thirties or even twenties. There is a date on the second advert, but I can only make out the month.

There are many items of menswear similar to plus fours, and they are all about comfort and freedom of movement. Jodhpurs and riding breeches were made to enable easy mounting of horses and comfortable riding. Similarly, the kind of baggy, knee-length khaki shorts that the British wore in tropical countries like India also enabled the circulation of air and freedom of movement. This photograph of a soldier wearing khaki bags is from the 1917-20 Indian Army Expedition to the North West Frontier:


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## Oldsarge




----------



## drpeter

The soldier is also wearing _puttees_, (from the Hindi, _patta_, strip of cloth) another innovation used by the Indian Army during the Raj, but also dating back many hundreds of years. These were for protection of the calves, and could be made of wool or cotton. Interestingly, the argyle stockings worn with plus fours, I'm sure, served a similar function. While I have seen and handled puttees (they are thick), I have no idea how thick the argyle stockings are.

It all goes to show how so many of the articles of men's clothing have either military origins or military connections.


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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 46408


Jeez Louise, I've always wanted one of those VW Campers. SWMBO keep praying that VW will never get around to marketing the new and updated version(s) on this side of the pond. If they do, I will fight mightily to have one to call my very own! LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, I've always wanted one of those VW Campers. SWMBO keep praying that VW will never get around to marketing the new and updated version(s) on this side of the pond. If they do, I will fight mightily to have one to call my very own! LOL.


It's *COMING*!

https://www.vw.com/electric-concepts/section/id-4/


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46459


From the looks in/of that illustration it appears the gentleman is indeed well dressed, but the race is not going as he had hoped it would! Note if you will, his eyes are not on the track watching the horses, but rather are cast towards the sky...praying for something other than the obvious outcome...yes. no?


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> From the looks in/of that illustration it appears the gentleman is indeed well dressed, but the race is not going as he had hoped it would! Note if you will, his eyes are not on the track watching the horses, but rather are cast towards the sky...praying for something other than the obvious outcome...yes. no?


As someone who has spent "some" time at racetracks, I am familiar with the look (you know your horse is not going to win even though there's still plenty of race left). It's all part of spending a day at the track.

Pretty cool the way the artist captured, what I think is, a tab or pin collar on the gentleman to the right.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46459


I have a beautiful olive green trenchcoat from Botany 500, American-made, likely new old stock, which I picked up for around $5.00 at a local thrift a couple of years ago. It looks very nice, and it fits me perfectly when I wear it over a sportcoat and slacks. Its hand and overall feel is lovely, and leads me to think it was never worn, hence my conclusion that it is NOS. Its colour is slightly different from my US Army issue officer's trenchcoat, which is somewhat more like olive drab.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I have a beautiful olive green trenchcoat from Botany 500, American-made, likely new old stock, which I picked up for around $5.00 at a local thrift a couple of years ago. It looks very nice, and it fits me perfectly when I wear it over a sportcoat and slacks. Its hand and overall feel is lovely, and leads me to think it was never worn, hence my conclusion that it is NOS. Its colour is slightly different from my US Army issue officer's trenchcoat, which is somewhat more like olive drab.


Sounds like an outstanding find and coat.

As a kid growing up in the '70s, I would see Botany 500 listed as "[so and so's} outfit provided by Botany 500" in the credits for news broadcasts and game shows. Being a kid and knowing nothing about men's clothing, I assumed it must have been the "best" brand out there if people on TV were wearing it. I also knew nothing about product placement and sponsorship deals back then.


----------



## drpeter

I remember seeing adverts for Botany 500 suits and outerwear in the 1960s, in magazines like _The Saturday Evening Post. _They were very similar of course to the ones being posted in this thread. I remember wondering how the name Botany 500 came about. Being an avid reader of sea-faring tales, I thought that the company's name might have something to do with Botany Bay, a lagoon located near Sydney, Australia, where Captain James Cook landed with _HMS Endeavour_. The botanists accompanying Cook found a large variety of plants, persuading Cook to call the lagoon Botany Bay. Now does any of this have anything to do with Botany 500? Did 500 suit makers descend on Botany Bay and start making clothes?


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## Fading Fast

Note the rise in the trousers.


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## drpeter

I have a bunch of Army and Air Force flat front trousers (olive green or blue wool) with snug hips, roomy straight legs, and nice, comfortable high rises like the one in the picture. It is my favourite cut for flat fronts, although I like a similar high rise for pleated trousers as well.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Note the rise in the trousers.
> View attachment 46508


Now that is the way a pair of trousers should be well and properly designed/made...hard to find these days!


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Now that is the way a pair of trousers should be well and properly designed/made...hard to find these days!


What's more prevalent now is the low-waisted, low-rise, narrow-legged style that used to be popular in the 1960s among the young folks. As always, fashion cycles.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46563


Assuming that comes from the late 1950's or so, rumor has it that I danced more with my hands and my mouth, than I did with my feet! I wonder what they meant by that? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Assuming that comes from the late 1950's or so, rumor has it that I danced more with my hands and my mouth, than I did with my feet! I wonder what they meant by that? LOL.


At least for me and my rhythm-less-ness, I just assume any comments that I don't understand about my dancing abilities are not complimentary.

Separately, that simple B&W illustration got in a lot of nice '50s' clothing details: a boldly patterned sport coat, a skinny bow-tie, wide cuffs and saddle shoes (and a flat top).


----------



## Flanderian

An ad I thought appealing from a one-time venerable NYC retailer. I was trying to place the period and realized it most likely dates from the '50's-'60's trad era as that most consistent with the lapel and tie widths. A less common fashion of that mode was an odd vest worn with suits. Some examples can be seen in the _Mad Men_ TV series.

When well done, I found it attractive, requiring pairing attractive pieces similar in nature. Anyway, this give a fair feel for the genre -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Spot on call re "Mad Men," as the character Duck Phillips sported it regularly:


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Spot on call re "Mad Men," as the character Duck Phillips sported it regularly:
> View attachment 46597


Never underestimate how good a gentleman can look in a navy blazer, paired with a sporty vest!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Spot on call re "Mad Men," as the character Duck Phillips sported it regularly:
> View attachment 46597


Good find! The dress of mad men was often noted, even during their era, as being less hide-bound than conventional business dress. And I suspect this manner of wearing one was popularized as a bit of true Ivy flash, if not originated there.

IMHO, it's a good look, nice if well done then *or* now. A corollary worn by more mature/affluent business men (And I use the gender specific collective noun deliberately.) was the wearing of far fancier vests, often made of satin, and in bold colors and designs. I believe their origin was English dress, from which they never entirely disappeared since their origin centuries ago. As burlesqued in the extreme for Simon Callow's marvelous character _Gareth_ in the film _Four Weddings and a Funeral_.












Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46598


Charming! Lovely illustration. :loveyou:


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Good find! The dress of mad men was often noted, even during their era, as being less hide-bound than conventional business dress. And I suspect this manner of wearing one was popularized as a bit of true Ivy flash, if not originated there.
> 
> IMHO, it's a good look, nice if well done then *or* now. A corollary worn by more mature/affluent business men (And I use the gender specific collective noun deliberately.) was the wearing of far fancier vests, often made of satin, and in bold colors and designs. I believe their origin was English dress, from which they never entirely disappeared since their origin centuries ago. As burlesqued in the extreme for Simon Callow's marvelous character _Gareth_ in the film _Four Weddings and a Funeral_.
> 
> View attachment 46600


I forgot about that one - good example.

The movies had plenty. Unfortunately, many / most pre-'60s (and, definitely, pre-'50s movies) were in B&W, so it's hard to find good color examples.

I remember this one from 1966's "Any Wednesday" that Jason Robards sported:


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> ...
> Charming! Lovely illustration. :loveyou:


The sport coat and bowtie feel very 1950s collegiate to me. Didn't, in the day, BB even have a number for that pattern in a tie/bowtie?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I forgot about that one - good example.
> 
> The movies had plenty. Unfortunately, many / most pre-'60s (and, definitely, pre-'50s movies) were in B&W, so it's hard to find good color examples.
> 
> I remember this one from 1966's "Any Wednesday" that Jason Robards sported:
> View attachment 46601
> 
> 
> View attachment 46602


A dapper Mr. Robards! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Cognizance taken in 1953 issue of _*Gentry *_magazine -



















And a dapper version in velvet offered by Chipp in 1952 *Gentry* magazine ad (Lower left) =


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Good stuff. Really enjoyed reading the Chipp ad.










And a bonus one ⇩ very F. Scott and Zelda


----------



## Oldsarge

Oooo, October is only three months away and vest weather will return. I can hardly wait. Heck, I may have to buy a couple more.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Good stuff. Really enjoyed reading the Chipp ad.
> 
> View attachment 46642
> 
> 
> And a bonus one ⇩ very F. Scott and Zelda
> View attachment 46643


Very nice! Especially like the bottom ad. 👍


----------



## Fading Fast

Seems a fitting lagniappe to the above pic.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46679
> 
> 
> Seems a fitting lagniappe to the above pic.
> View attachment 46680


A very pleasant illustration...never heard of the Stamina Brand, but what exactly are "self supporting trousers?" Did they stand on their own? I've had some blue jeans that could do that! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A very pleasant illustration...never heard of the Stamina Brand, but what exactly are "self supporting trousers?" Did they stand on their own? I've had some blue jeans that could do that! LOL.


I think marketing got ahold of the side-tab concept for cinching up a waist and went a bit crazy.


----------



## Fading Fast

Two for Sunday.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Two for Sunday.
> View attachment 46718
> 
> View attachment 46719


I've certainly worn McGregor and certainly have great respect for the brand, but I could never see myself wearing a bright yellow summer vest with a deep purple hued short sleeved sport shirt. Even we hillbilly's have our standards! LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I've certainly worn McGregor and certainly have great respect for the brand, but I could never see myself wearing a bright yellow summer vest with a deep purple hued short sleeved sport shirt. Even we hillbilly's have our standards! LOL.


Kinda had a film-noir gangster meets Miami-Beach retiree in the '50s look to me.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46757


Having taught at a number of colleges/universities (as a second job) over the years, I am familiar with the crowd of closed or at least very heavily lidded eyes, downcast chins and disturbingly audible heavy breathing, that occasionally digressed into flat out snoring. Perhaps I should have found courses to teach that were somewhat more stimulating? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Having taught at a number of colleges/universities (as a second job) over the years, I am familiar with the crowd of closed or at least very heavily lidded eyes, downcast chins and disturbingly audible heavy breathing, that occasionally digressed into flat out snoring. Perhaps I should have found courses to teach that were somewhat more stimulating? LOL.


Owing to my work schedule during college (the late-afternoon-into-evening shift at Sterns), I took as many early morning classes as I could (never hard to get into them for some reason  ) and remember my fellow classmates looking that way. Quite often the professor would comment as, I'm sure, it's no fun to speak to a lecture hall full of half-asleep faces. However, being the '80s, nobody was dressed like the kids in that illustration.


----------



## thefringthing

In my program it was a rite of passage to trudge through the snow in the dark to take group theory at 8:30 in the morning. I never took that class, but I have to guess more than one student fell asleep in those lectures.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46757


In 30 years of college teaching, I don't think I _ever _had a flotilla of students in jackets and ties! One or two, on occasion, dressed for some job interview they had to go to, perhaps. But never more than that. Times have indeed changed -- in fact, they changed a long time ago.


----------



## drpeter

Just for balance, LOL, here is another group with a professor and students from a few hundred years ago -- at least some seem to be students. They are gathered around Andreas Vesalius, the great 16th century anatomist at the University of Louvain. His major work on anatomy was _De humani corporis fabrica. _They aren't all that well-dressed, though. Nothing like our trad lads above:


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> In 30 years of college teaching, I don't think I _ever _had a flotilla of students in jackets and ties! One or two, on occasion, dressed for some job interview they had to go to, perhaps. But never more than that. Times have indeed changed -- in fact, they changed a long time ago.


My college days were in the '80s and it was very rare to see a sport coat, tie or suit on a student. Many professors still wore them back then, but as you note, no kids did other than for a very specific, not-college reason.


----------



## Fading Fast

1941


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> My college days were in the '80s and it was very rare to see a sport coat, tie or suit on a student. Many professors still wore them back then, but as you note, no kids did other than for a very specific, not-college reason.


Yes, I started my university teaching and research position in 1983, after a couple of postdocs. My style of dressing was to wear a sport coat or blazer and khaki slacks or wool trousers, along with full-sleeve dress shirts (OCBD, broadcloth etc). I would often wear a necktie, mostly bow ties, but also four-in-hands. I would also wear a sweater or cardigan with shirt and slacks. I never wore jeans, my everyday trousers were usually khakis. I liked the fact that there was really no dress code at the university, one could wear what one pleased. Of course, administrators wore jackets and ties, and often, suits. I liked being formal, and my choice of clothing reflected that inclination. I also felt that it gave me a proper distance from my students. While friendly, I was never their pal, I was their teacher and professor, and I thought my style of dressing should reflect a bit of that formality. My friends were usually people my own age or older.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> 1941
> View attachment 46840


Oh my, how times have changed. Back then he could have been referring to an aircraft in the sky, but today "Look at that baby Zoom" might refer to an attractive young lovely teleconferencing online! LOL.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Yes, I started my university teaching and research position in 1983, after a couple of postdocs. My style of dressing was to wear a sport coat or blazer and khaki slacks or wool trousers, along with full-sleeve dress shirts (OCBD, broadcloth etc). I would often wear a necktie, mostly bow ties, but also four-in-hands. I would also wear a sweater or cardigan with shirt and slacks. I never wore jeans, my everyday trousers were usually khakis. I liked the fact that there was really no dress code at the university, one could wear what one pleased. Of course, administrators wore jackets and ties, and often, suits. I liked being formal, and my choice of clothing reflected that inclination. I also felt that it gave me a proper distance from my students. While friendly, I was never their pal, I was their teacher and professor, and I thought my style of dressing should reflect a bit of that formality. My friends were usually people my own age or older.


If you graphed it, you'd see the formality of dress on the teachers / professors at my college (Rutgers) in the '80s clearly increasing with age. The older professors in their 60s and up usually wore suits and ties (some sport coat, dress trousers, ties and traditional dress shoes), the 30 - 50 age bracket wore more sport coat, ties (some would drop the tie occasionally) and dress shoes (or things like pennies or Wallabees) and the under 30 wore a mix (not all at once of course) of jeans, chinos, T-shirts, open-collared shirts, ties without a jacket (with a few wearing sport coats and ties, but never a suit). Of course, there were one-off exceptions, but not in the over-60 group, to the best of my memory.

I had a cost accounting professor who was the oldest member of, either, the economic faculty or the entire University (don't remember which), he was in his 80s. He wore (probably the first time I saw this in person) a three-piece suit, tie, dress shoes and pocket watch - and all well tailored and maintained - every day. I got to know him a bit (he wrote a letter of recommendation for me, he offered without my asking) and still think of him as one of the nicest and quietly elegant men I've ever known.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> If you graphed it, you'd see the formality of dress on the teachers / professors at my college (Rutgers) in the '80s clearly increasing with age. The older professors in their 60s and up usually wore suits and ties (some sport coat, dress trousers, ties and traditional dress shoes), the 30 - 50 age bracket wore more sport coat, ties (some would drop the tie occasionally) and dress shoes (or things like pennies or Wallabees) and the under 30 wore a mix (not all at once of course) of jeans, chinos, T-shirts, open-collared shirts, ties without a jacket (with a few wearing sport coats and ties, but never a suit). Of course, there were one-off exceptions, but not in the over-60 group, to the best of my memory.
> 
> I had a cost accounting professor who was the oldest member of, either, the economic faculty or the entire University (don't remember which), he was in his 80s. He wore (probably the first time I saw this in person) a three-piece suit, tie, dress shoes and pocket watch - and all well tailored and maintained - every day. I got to know him a bit (he wrote a letter of recommendation for me, he offered without my asking) and still think of him as one of the nicest and quietly elegant men I've ever known.


Yes, your "age-line" for clothes is spot on! The older folks were more tailored and formal. But there are funny stories too.

I may have mentioned this story before but I went to graduate school at the University of Rochester, and the commons room in the Psychology Building had a series of annual faculty photographs. One of the younger developmental psychologists, a man named Chandler, was in each of the photographs -- from the time he arrived on campus in the late 1960s. In the first seven photographs he is dressed almost exactly the same: flannel or worsted suits, charcoal, mid-grey or navy blue, white shirt and conservative regimental tie. A very trimly cropped head of hair, clean-shaven and the very image of probity. In the eighth photograph he had long hair and a drooping mustache, wore a flowered shirt open to mid-sternum with its large collar spread over the lapels of a blue blazer with colored piping. There was a chain around his neck and hanging from the chain was a large pendant almost the size of a hubcap. My advisor pointed to this picture and asked me if I knew what the difference was between the first seven photos and the eighth. I said I was not sure, and he said, simply: "Tenure".


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Yes, your "age-line" for clothes is spot on! The older folks were more tailored and formal. But there are funny stories too.
> 
> I may have mentioned this story before but I went to graduate school at the University of Rochester, and the commons room in the Psychology Building had a series of annual faculty photographs. One of the younger developmental psychologists, a man named Chandler, was in each of the photographs -- from the time he arrived on campus in the late 1960s. In the first seven photographs he is dressed almost exactly the same: flannel or worsted suits, charcoal, mid-grey or navy blue, white shirt and conservative regimental tie. A very trimly cropped head of hair, clean-shaven and the very image of probity. In the eighth photograph he had long hair and a drooping mustache, wore a flowered shirt open to mid-sternum with its large collar spread over the lapels of a blue blazer with colored piping. There was a chain around his neck and hanging from the chain was a large pendant almost the size of a hubcap. My advisor pointed to this picture and asked me if I knew what the difference was between the first seven photos and the eighth. I said I was not sure, and he said, simply: "Tenure".


Fun story, great punchline.

Heck, the same thing was happening to rock stars.

1964 Rollings Stones ⇩ 









and 1969 ⇩


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Fun story, great punchline.
> 
> Heck, the same thing was happening to rock stars.
> 
> 1964 Rollings Stones ⇩
> View attachment 46855
> 
> 
> and 1969 ⇩
> View attachment 46856


_Quod era demonstrandum _as we say at the end of mathematical proofs


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## Oldsarge

I recall all of my undergraduate professors wearing suits or sports coats except for those who taught in older parts of the campus where there was no air conditioning. When I got to graduate school, some twenty years later, I don't think I saw a single faculty member dressed so well.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Peak and Pine

^^
A truly awul looking car (I remember it) and an awful illustration to match. If a shirt company (Arrow) can afford to comission a Leyendeker (although he died around the time this car came out), Ford oughta be able to hire someone who draws better than me, and I can only draw water, from a tap. Look at the size of the couple (bottom pic) compared to the size of the car, done maybe on orders to make the car look really roomy, a pair of shrunken heads sitting on the window sill.

The top pic, meant to be the ad's eye catcher...

_Shup up, Mabel, and get your a** in the back seat. I'm driving this thing and I'll drive you straight to hell._


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## Fading Fast

Harkening back to our recent conversation about colorful vests, just saw this one from the the 1958 movie "Gideon of Scotland Yard." Sorry for the not-great pics.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46975


It would appear that back in the day, the boys were more than just a bit reserved in their mixing with the ladies. However, reflecting on my days as a student on Penn States University Park campus, I can;t remember a single time when entering a classroom and seeing a young lady with an empty seat beside her that I did not ask if she minded me taking said seat! Egad, there was no percentage for success in sitting with the boys. LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> It would appear that back in the day, the boys were more than just a bit reserved in their mixing with the ladies. However, reflecting on my days as a student on Penn States University Park campus, I can;t remember a single time when entering a classroom and seeing a young lady with an empty seat beside her that I did not ask if she minded me taking said seat! Egad, there was no percentage for success in sitting with the boys. LOL.


I did the exact same thing. In college, 90% of my dating came straight from meeting girls in the classroom. But of course, it was the '80s, so nobody looked like that ad.


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## Fading Fast

Looks like he's wearing a pin club collar.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47022
> 
> Looks like he's wearing a pin club collar.


Now does the little woman have the correct change to feed that vending machine? Whos is to know, but she had better be careful or she is going to lose those keys!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Now does the little woman have the correct change to feed that vending machine? Whos is to know, but she had better be careful or she is going to lose those keys!


Tying two separate pieces of our recent conversations in this thread together, I met one of my first college girlfriends - a blue-eyed blonde who caught my eye in calculus with her tight jeans tucked into her boots (hey, it was the '80s) - when, after class, I saw her hunting through her purse for change for the vending the machine and I came to her rescue.


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## Oldsarge

Modern gallantry, that man.


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Modern gallantry, that man.


Not quite Jane Austen material, but you play the hand you're dealt.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47055
> View attachment 47056


A stark contrast between an aggressive, disagreeable female and a reflective, more cuddly such critter! :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47128


The suit, the hat, the tie...there is not a part of that rig that would not fit smoothly into today's wardrobe! HSM is a brand for which I have a great deal of respect.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47169


I can't say I am familiar with Buck Skin Joe's brand, but for many years I did go slightly crazy ove Pendletons wool Board and Camp Shirts and with their wool Topster jackets! In the picture above it appears our three illustrated friends may be having pan fried scrapple for breakfast...yes, no? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I can't say I am familiar with Buck Skin Joe's brand, but for many years I did go slightly crazy ove Pendletons wool Board and Camp Shirts and with their wool Topster jackets! In the picture above it appears our three illustrated friends may be having pan fried scrapple for breakfast...yes, no? :icon_scratch:


I, too, was not familiar with the name Buck Skein Joe and, also, was wondering what was frying. Your scrapple call looks correct to me. I thought about, but said no to them being grill-cheese sandwiches, but that's as far as I got.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46975


I notice that the front row is taken up by the lads, and the lasses are all in the back row, admiring the boys -- presumably their Botany sportswear. In my own classes in the eighties and later, this pattern had switched: The women were usually in the front row, looking earnest and serious, and the boys were the back-benchers, wise-cracking and having fun. I'm sure sociologists will make something of such changes.


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## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> ^^
> A truly awul looking car (I remember it) and an awful illustration to match. If a shirt company (Arrow) can afford to comission a Leyendeker (although he died around the time this car came out), Ford oughta be able to hire someone who draws better than me, and I can only draw water, from a tap. Look at the size of the couple (bottom pic) compared to the size of the car, done maybe on orders to make the car look really roomy, a pair of shrunken heads sitting on the window sill.
> 
> The top pic, meant to be the ad's eye catcher...
> 
> _Shup up, Mabel, and get your a** in the back seat. I'm driving this thing and I'll drive you straight to hell._


"... and I can only draw water, from a tap." Nice!


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I notice that the front row is taken up by the lads, and the lasses are all in the back row, admiring the boys -- presumably their Botany sportswear. In my own classes in the eighties and later, this pattern had switched: The women were usually in the front row, looking earnest and serious, and the boys were the back-benchers, wise-cracking and having fun. I'm sure sociologists will make something of such changes.


My '80s' college years' seating choices were driven 100% by where the girl I was interested in was sitting. That said, I don't really remember a girl-boy front-back seat bias happening. It seemed the sexes were pretty much scattered evenly.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> My '80s' college years' seating choices were driven 100% by where the girl I was interested in was sitting. That said, I don't really remember a girl-boy front-back seat bias happening. It seemed the sexes were pretty much scattered evenly.


As an Under-grad in the early 70' I was always in the front row. Now that I think of it, I was always in the front row in grad school during the late 80's. Of course, by the time I made it to grad school, I was married, had a son and worked full time.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> My '80s' college years' seating choices were driven 100% by where the girl I was interested in was sitting. That said, I don't really remember a girl-boy front-back seat bias happening. It seemed the sexes were pretty much scattered evenly.


One confounding factor must be explored as a cause for our disparate experiences. I taught in the Psychology Department and even in the 80s, there was already a preponderance of female students as psychology majors and minors in undergraduate programs, across many universities. It was a bit more equal in terms of gender at the graduate school level. So the fact that I saw many more young women in the front row was because there simply were more females in my classes! I remember taking note of the gender breakup in my classes in the 1990-2005 period. By 1995, close to 80% of my undergraduate students were female, and just 20% were male. The discipline, and the profession too, was getting feminized. It's also worth noting that among students graduating with a baccalaureate in 2019, 56% were female. In the past it has gone as high as 80%, if memory serves. I have a refrigerator magnet that says it all: *The Future Is Female*.


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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> The suit, the hat, the tie...there is not a part of that rig that would not fit smoothly into today's wardrobe! HSM is a brand for which I have a great deal of respect.


We have similar tastes, @eagle! I know this belongs in the thrifting thread, but perhaps this group will kindly indulge me. Last week I picked up a beautiful, conservatively-cut navy-blue wool blazer by Hart, Schaffner and Marx at the local Goodwill for $2.50. They were offering a system where you buy one item of clothing for that price and get two free, so I could have had an even lower price if I had found other items to buy.

The blazer needed a bit of shortening in the body (one inch) and in the sleeves (about 3/4 inch) and that was done by my skilled tailor Mr Vang, who, as usual did a splendid job. It looks wonderful, with the balance of the button stance and the level of pockets maintained very nicely. I really love this blazer because it has those buttons that are a dark brass, not bright like most blazer buttons. I had been searching off and on for one of those, and it pretty much turned up in the Goodwill rack.


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## Oldsarge

As a high school student I read that having a car as an undergraduate was a guaranteed lowering of your GPA by a full point. I also read that those who sat in the first 2-3 rows got better grades. So I sold the car my father gave me a graduation present (I didn't want one anyway) and alway sat in the front. Saved my bacon, I'm sure!


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## Fading Fast

Staying with our recent theme:


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## Fading Fast

What do you guess, a 12"-14" rise?


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## Oldsarge




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## Flanderian




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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 47315


When men wore men's coats.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 47326


Love his coat. Also, I love when women used to wear outfits that included a matching coat (think of all those Doris Day movies). I can only imagine how expensive a wardrobe like that would be, but it looks great and makes a heck of an impression.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47340


Well "Bonnie" really does wear the Tartan well, so well she could incentivize many men to want to get into a kilt..... of their own! You dirty, dirty minded boys.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Love his coat. Also, I love when women used to wear outfits that included a matching coat (think of all those Doris Day movies). I can only imagine how expensive a wardrobe like that would be, but it looks great and makes a heck of an impression.


I would think the style of loose fitting balmaccan would be ideal for your build! Taller, slender guys look great in it. 👍



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47340





eagle2250 said:


> Well "Bonnie" really does wear the Tartan well, so well she could incentivize many men to want to get into a kilt..... of their own! You dirty, dirty minded boys.


While the young lady's skirt is delightful, it puts me in mind of my kindergarten teacher's, who at the age of 5 provoked sensations that I didn't begin to understand until years later. A fashion of the time was long, pleated tartan skirts worn with short snug angora sweaters. And this pretty young woman was most certainly fashionable.

To this day I find I still have a fondness for such skirts! :icon_saint7kg:


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I would think the style of loose fitting balmaccan would be ideal for your build! Taller, slender guys look great in it. 👍


It does work well on my frame which is part of the reason why I'm a fan of raglan-sleeved garments.

I use to have a classic London Fog one and classic Aquascutum one, but they wore out and I only have one traditional raincoat left, a raglan Timberland version back when Timberland was still a quality company and it started branching out a bit into classic menswear.

But it hardly wear it anymore as I rarely have a suit on anymore.

The one raglan-sleeved item that I might buy is, if I ever find it, the "right" raglan-sleeved, heavy Tweed, grey herringbone overcoat.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> It does work well on my frame which is part of the reason why I'm a fan of raglan-sleeved garments.
> 
> I use to have a classic London Fog one and classic Aquascutum one, but they wore out and I only have one traditional raincoat left, a raglan Timberland version back when Timberland was still a quality company and it started branching out a bit into classic menswear.
> 
> But it hardly wear it anymore as I rarely have a suit on anymore.
> 
> *The one raglan-sleeved item that I might buy is, if I ever find it, the "right" raglan-sleeved, heavy Tweed, grey herringbone overcoat.*


Close, but no cigar.


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Close, but no cigar.
> 
> View attachment 47367
> 
> 
> View attachment 47368


Agreed, beautiful coat, but that's not the one.


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## Fading Fast

I'm guessing that we are seeing the bottom of his braces connect to his pants, but what's odd is that it looks like the button is on the outside of the waist band. I've seen that, but rarely on a basic business suit. Or is that not the bottom of his braces; is it something else?

I do love that he has on, what look like, white bucks, but the black socks with them are jarring. As with the braces, those might not be bucks - thoughts?

And if the dark-haired woman is his wife/girlfriend, I'm guessing he's in for a not-fun night.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm guessing that we are seeing the bottom of his braces connect to his pants, but what's odd is that it looks like the button is on the outside of the waist band. I've seen that, but rarely on a basic business suit. Or is that not the bottom of his braces; is it something else?
> 
> I do love that he has on, what look like, white bucks, but the black socks with them are jarring. As with the braces, those might not be bucks - thoughts?
> 
> And if the dark-haired woman is his wife/girlfriend, I'm guessing he's in for a not-fun night.
> View attachment 47385


Great illustration! Great clothes!

Looks like suspenders to me too. I had always thought wearing the button on the outside of the waistband a sign of the untutored, or what loggers do, but have recently learned either is correct, therefore it's me who was untutored!  Though I still prefer them inboard.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration! Great clothes!
> 
> Looks like suspenders to me too. I had always thought wearing the button on the outside of the waistband a sign of the untutored, or what loggers do, but have recently learned either is correct, therefore it's me who was untutored!  Though I still prefer them inboard.


All the guys who still wore suspenders on Wall St in the '80s (I'm talking the older guys who did it naturally, not the few younger guys trying to imitate Michael Douglas) wore the buttons on the inside so, to me, that's how I learned it was done. Also, almost all the suits I bought back then had them sewn in from the factory that way.

But as a fan of old movies and as I started to look at these things much closer, I noticed that some very nice suits and well-dressed men did, at least in the past, have the buttons on the outside of the waist band. Purely from memory, I'd say those suits with the buttons on the outside still tended to be a bit more casual and also seemed to be done more in the south and on older men. But before the bullets start flying, that's just an off-the-cuff observation from watching movies, not something I've done any hard work researching.


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## Fading Fast

Guy on the far right has an interesting outfit on. 









Not an illustration, but still seems to fit our thread.


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## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration! Great clothes!
> 
> Looks like suspenders to me too. I had always thought wearing the button on the outside of the waistband a sign of the untutored, or what loggers do, but have recently learned either is correct, therefore it's me who was untutored!  Though I still prefer them inboard.


One clue as to what might be going on with those brace buttons could be the intended use of those trousers. If the trousers are intended to be dual-purpose, i.e., to be worn with braces or with a belt, then it might make sense to to have the buttons inside the waistband because, if placed outside, they could interfere with the belt running smoothly through the belt loops. On the other hand, if there are no belt loops, and the only way to keep your pants on is to hang them by those braces, LOL, then having them outside would be fine. In the picture, those trousers appear to have no belt loops, as far as can be seen. So it makes sense to have the buttons on the outside. Just a thought, that's all, I may be wrong.


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## Peak and Pine

Heads are being scratched over brace button placement. On the outside? An age old practice and, no, not just for loggers. Jeez.

I do braces on pants worn with a jacket. Four buttons inside, two out. Huh? Follow me. The back pair is on the outside. Two reasons. I sit straight and in wooden chairs and prefer the buttons not dig into my back. That was reason two. Reason one is the bling factor. See below...


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Guy on the far right has an interesting outfit on.
> View attachment 47450
> 
> 
> Not an illustration, but still seems to fit our thread.
> View attachment 47449


Are you referring to the felow wearing the V-neck sweater under thew Camelhair jacket? The black bowtie is wanting, but the rest of the rig seems workable. :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Are you referring to the felow wearing the V-neck sweater under thew Camelhair jacket? The black bowtie is wanting, but the rest of the rig seems workable. :icon_scratch:


Yes, that's the outfit. I was wondering what color the bowtie was. Also, the pants look like a dove-grey wool - right? I considered if they were chinos, but the color looks grey and somehow I doubt they would have worn a chino in that way, in that day. And the striped V-neck seemed a neat choice. Like it or not, that outfit was not mailed in.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Yes, that's the outfit. I was wondering what color the bowtie was. Also, the pants look like a dove-grey wool - right? I considered if they were chinos, but the color looks grey and somehow I doubt they would have worn a chino in that way, in that day. And the striped V-neck seemed a neat choice. Like it or not, that outfit was not mailed in.


 Absent the bow tie, I would wear that rig in a heartbeat!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Absent the bow tie, I would wear that rig in a heartbeat!


I like the outfit too. I've never worn a bowtie (other than with a tux) as, by the time I was a young man in the early '80s, they had a "nerdy" meme around them. But back in the '50s, maybe. But either way, I wouldn't choose a black one. Grey or burgundy would have been my thought.


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## Fading Fast

Very "fashiony" stuff for its day. No surprise it's a California company as there's not much of an "East Coast" feel to these clothes. My guess, late '40s / early '50s.








⇧ Note the lapel-and-collar-less sport coat (far right). Last time I saw one of those was on Cary Grant in "The Philadelphia Story." ⇩


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Very "fashiony" stuff for its day. No surprise it's a California company as there's not much of an "East Coast" feel to these clothes. My guess, late '40s / early '50s.
> View attachment 47492
> 
> ⇧ Note the lapel-and-collar-less sport coat (far right). Last time I saw one of those was on Cary Grant in "The Philadelphia Story." ⇩
> View attachment 47493


The broad red stripes on white ground on that jacket echoes the old boating blazers worn by university students in England. But those usually had a collar and lapels. I've seen those jackets sans lapel and collar in Indian films from the fifties. Rather like a cross between a cardigan and a sport coat.

Interestingly enough, I just picked up a copy of Marc Eliot's biography of Cary Grant. I found it yesterday on the bookshelves at a nearby Goodwill! Since there are NO bookshops left in my small town, other than the one at the University, mainly for textbooks, and a single second-hand bookshop, both closed because of the virus, the only place to look at books is in the thrift shops!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Very "fashiony" stuff for its day. No surprise it's a California company as there's not much of an "East Coast" feel to these clothes. My guess, late '40s / early '50s.
> View attachment 47492
> 
> ⇧ Note the lapel-and-collar-less sport coat (far right). Last time I saw one of those was on Cary Grant in "The Philadelphia Story." ⇩
> View attachment 47493


A noteworthy illustration, for sure, but the collarless jacket to which you refer, leaves much to be desired. Indeed, it is another day in another age, but that collarless jacket doesn't even look good on Cary Grant! Although the solid hued version is ever so much more desirable than the gawd awful stripping on the jacket in the illustration. Just one hillbilly's opinion.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The broad red stripes on white ground on that jacket echoes the old boating blazers worn by university students in England. But those usually had a collar and lapels. I've seen those jackets sans lapel and collar in Indian films from the fifties. Rather like a cross between a cardigan and a sport coat.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I just picked up a copy of Marc Eliot's biography of Cary Grant. I found it yesterday on the bookshelves at a nearby Goodwill! Since there are NO bookshops left in my small town, other than the one at the University, mainly for textbooks, and a single second-hand bookshop, both closed because of the virus, the only place to look at books is in the thrift shops!





eagle2250 said:


> A noteworthy illustration, for sure, but the collarless jacket to which you refer, leaves much to be desired. Indeed, it is another day in another age, but that collarless jacket doesn't even look good on Cary Grant! Although the solid hued version is ever so much more desirable than the gawd awful stripping on the jacket in the illustration. Just one hillbilly's opinion.


Good point on it being a sport coat-cardigan cross. It's funny, that '40s/'50s cross produced a very sport-coat-as-the-foundation result; whereas, in the recent effort, the fashion industry seems to have produced a cross with a more cardigan-like foundation as seen in all those sweaters goosed-up to almost-sport-coat status that I've noticed the past few years.

Here, in fact, is one from Ralph:









I've tried to be openminded, but I think both efforts look awkward. However, I might simply be too wedded to the traditional, so unable to see these objectively. Of the two versions, I do like the souped-up cardigan one of recent vintage better, but none have, or probably will, make it to my closet.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A noteworthy illustration, for sure, but the collarless jacket to which you refer, leaves much to be desired. Indeed, it is another day in another age, but that collarless jacket doesn't even look good on Cary Grant! Although the solid hued version is ever so much more desirable than the gawd awful stripping on the jacket in the illustration. Just one hillbilly's opinion.


Meant to mention this in the earlier post, in the movie "The Philadelphia Story" where Grant wears his lapel-collar-less sport coat, it's in the final scene which calls for him to flip his shirt collar up and put on a tie in a hurry. I wonder if the lapel-collar-less sport coat wasn't employed to make the mechanics of that effort easier.


----------



## Fading Fast

Just a note, today's post at "Ivy Style" has a lot of neat Ivy clothing illustrations like this one:







]
See them all here: https://www.ivy-style.com/monday-grab-bag.html


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## Fading Fast




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## Peak and Pine

^^

Tie, shirt and jacket, cut and fit can easily pass for current fashion. (Tho not mine.)

* From 1948


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47552


Nice hat, funny man, and a great company! I've never seen a Stetson Hat that I wouldn't have bought... were it available for the pittance of $10. LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice hat, funny man, and a great company! I've never seen a Stetson Hat that I wouldn't have bought... were it available for the pittance of $10. LOL.


I enjoy seeing hats on men, which basically happens when I watch old movies, but I have, literally, never worn one (not counting baseball and ski caps).

For hats, I think I as born ('64) a bit too late and my older dad (40 when I was born) never wore them. He told me he hated the feel of them and found them unnecessary. So, there was no window for me to even really learn about them.

But boy do they enhance film noir as a man walking down a dark street and lit from the background so he appears in silhouette only, looks that much better with a Fedora on his head.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47592


My memory fails me this AM. I am familiar with and have purchased a number of Jantzen garments over the years and I think that Jantzen's "JanFleece" was some sort of polyester abomination. I also seem to recall their sweaters pilling and pukking pretty badly. But they were cheap and at that point in my life, cost was what usually drove the purchase...or not? :crazy: Darned memory!


----------



## Peak and Pine

That's the first ad I've seen marketing clothing like cars, touting the new model year. I remember 1955 and we actually did put on cheap sweaters and ties and crowd around a doofus with a harmonica. On Thursdays. On Fridays we'd pull those sweaters up over our faces and hit up convenience stores.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> My memory fails me this AM. I am familiar with and have purchased a number of Jantzen garments over the years and I think that Jantzen's "JanFleece" was some sort of polyester abomination. I also seem to recall their sweaters pilling and pukking pretty badly. But they were cheap and at that point in my life, cost was what usually drove the purchase...or not? :crazy: Darned memory!


The text in the ad is, maybe, cagey about the material.

The first time I read it, I thought it was 100% merino wool.

But after your comment, I went back and it's possible Jantzen is saying the wool used in the blend is 100% merino wool. But since it doesn't mention it being a blend, that would be pretty dirty.

So "Janfleece" is either a way of processing merino wool, as the ad implies, or a blend that Jantzen's not being up front about.

Growing up in the '70s, the only thing I remember Jantzen for was bathing suits.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> The text in the ad is, maybe, cagey about the material.
> 
> The first time I read it, I thought it was 100% merino wool.
> 
> But after your comment, I went back and it's possible Jantzen is saying the wool used in the blend is 100% merino wool. But since it doesn't mention it being a blend, that would be pretty dirty.
> 
> So "Janfleece" is either a way of processing merino wool, as the ad implies, or a blend that Jantzen's not being up front about.
> 
> Growing up in the '70s, the only thing I remember Jantzen for was bathing suits.


In all fairness, back in the day I didn't pay as close attention to the details of a garments construction as I seem to do today. I thought they were polyester , but certainly could be wrong on that point. I do recall that my Jantzen sweaters, back then, piled as badly or worse than any sweaters I had any experience with over the years. I guess they could have been wool and still worn badly and quickly. :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

Staying with Jantzen for another day.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with Jantzen for another day.
> View attachment 47665


Great illustration, but the setting (a stable) incited a rather unpleasant flashback on my part. Never a fan of horses, but my kids were so I spent a fair number of hours and a whole lot of money tending to horses for a decade or so. I can tell you I got pretty darned proficient at hauling around a horse trailer. While horses continue to be a part of my daughters lives, they (the horses) are history with me...and that's nice!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Great illustration, but the setting (a stable) incited a rather unpleasant flashback on my part. Never a fan of horses, but my kids were so I spent a fair number of hours and a whole lot of money tending to horses for a decade or so. I can tell you I got pretty darned proficient at hauling around a horse trailer. While horses continue to be a part of my daughters lives, they (the horses) are history with me...and that's nice!


I have a more pedestrian connection to horses; my dad was a professional gambler and, as a little kid, once a year, he'd take me to the track with him (my girlfriend wonders about my upbringing).

Of course, horse racing was on TV regularly in my house growing up, so I became a fan and still am (somewhat) to this day.

The funny thing is, while I think they are beautiful animals, I really only know them as athletes to gamble on as I've only been on a horse once or twice for a few minutes in my life.

So I know all this stuff about bloodlines, quarter-mile speeds, etc., but I really don't know them as animals the way I do, say, dogs.


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## Fading Fast

We had a college theme working a bit ago, but I don't think this one was posted then.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> We had a college theme working a bit ago, but I don't think this one was posted then.
> View attachment 47721


These images from a long-gone era are striking in the way they depict college students. The four lads featured here look almost identical -- very similar hair, blond to light brown, similar faces and even similar smiles. Few college students dress like this any more, alas. And very few look as clean-cut as that either, overall. During the years I taught college, I was used to seeing a veritable sea of blue denim, eventually tattered blue denim, artificially distressed.

The other thing that struck me is how widely spread the legs are, in the images with the two seated fellows. LOL, isn't that what women nowadays call "manspreading"?

I'm sure sociologists would have a field day with the evolution of advertising images over the years-- there's likely a slew of dissertations on the subject!


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> These images from a long-gone era are striking in the way they depict college students. The four lads featured here look almost identical -- very similar hair, blond to light brown, similar faces and even similar smiles. Few college students dress like this any more, alas. And very few look as clean-cut as that either, overall. During the years I taught college, I was used to seeing a veritable sea of blue denim, eventually tattered blue denim, artificially distressed.
> 
> The other thing that struck me is how widely spread the legs are, in the images with the two seated fellows. LOL, isn't that what women nowadays call "manspreading"?
> 
> I'm sure sociologists would have a field day with the evolution of advertising images over the years-- there's likely a slew of dissertations on the subject!


Heck, I thought it was the same guy in different clothes who kinda, sorta looks like Troy Donahue.









As to "manspreading," it seems we have, sadly, just chosen a different category of people to malign as a group with negative stereotypes and prejudice descriptions.

P.S. The shoes on the guy in the lower left are interesting.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Heck, I thought it was the same guy in different clothes who kinda, sorta looks like Troy Donahue.
> View attachment 47724
> 
> 
> As to "manspreading," it seems we have, sadly, just chosen a different category of people to malign as a group with negative stereotypes and prejudice descriptions.
> 
> P.S. The shoes on the guy in the lower left are interesting.


As for "manspreading", yes, it is one more flaw that we must bear with a heavy heart, LOL. The one exception might be when you are in a crowded subway train or bus, and someone takes up a bit too much room!

I once had a friend who had to push his legs forward under a restaurant table (especially in a booth), thereby making me keep my own legs folded back. I would ask him to change his position, he would say sorry, and move his legs back, and a few minutes later, be back in the old position again. I gave up and tried to avoid sitting in booths with him, LOL.

I suppose it has to do with personal space. In crowded countries like Japan and India, people will stand in close contact, actually touching your body, without any qualms. Not so here, I imagine.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> We had a college theme working a bit ago, but I don't think this one was posted then.
> View attachment 47721


Are those a pair of Chelsea Boots being worn by Charlie Blue Shetland, the gentleman in the lower left portion of the illustration? As one who enjoys Chelsea's I like that!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Are those a pair of Chelsea Boots being worn by Charlie Blue Shetland, the gentleman in the lower left portion of the illustration? As one who enjoys Chelsea's I like that!


They have a Chelsea echo, but I don't see the elastic side piece. It could be on the other side as we are only seeing the "inside" side, but the height isn't really boot height. They look like some kind of slip on with two loop pulls. Maybe they don't have a name or maybe somebody here knows what they are called?


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## Fading Fast

Back to Jantzen:









And a Sunday bonus:


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## Oldsarge

Ah for the days of knee socks!


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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> Ah for the days of knee socks!


Knee socks, perhaps, but not shorts...for grown men, never shorts! :crazy:


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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Knee socks, perhaps, but not shorts...for grown men, never shorts! :crazy:


Ah, @eagle, if you had to live in the hot plains and crowded towns of India, or perhaps serve in the Western Desert during the Second World War, you would have loved shorts, even as an adult, LOL. There are alternatives though. The Bedouin dress ideally for the desert -- the long white _djellaba_ and the headdress called _kuffiyeh_, keeps them cool during the day, and warm at night when the temperature drops like a rock. That said, I never could figure out why Omar Sharif went about in a jet black outfit in _Lawrence of Arabia_!


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## Oldsarge

Agreed. Did you know that when I was on Active Duty the U.S. Army actually had a prescribed short uniform? It was only authorized in the Canal Zone AFAICT though it may have been allowed in Hawaii. Fortunately, hardly any of the senior NCO'S in Germany knew this so when we cut our Class B's to knee length and bought black knee socks all we had to do was quote the proper reg number and we got a pass. None of them were going to go back and look up the details.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47824


I am sure they sold a lot of shirts with the ad above, but alas, societal expectations have changed to the point that yesteryear's "mansmoothing" has become the manscaping of today. Smooth is smooth, but for me I will ask SWMBO to continue mansmoothing my 'must-be-ironed shirts and any hair being taken off will be from just the head, eyebrows, nose and ears and it will be taken off by no one other than my barber! Nuff said.


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## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47824


Her facial expression is almost predatory. :laughing:


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Her facial expression is almost predatory. :laughing:


I agree and it's odd. We've all chatted about it here before, the facial expression in many of the ads back in the '50s come off as very odd/aggressive to us today. I have to assume that they were much better received in their day.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47879


get a load of those kicks...and I'm not referring to the shoes. A guy could hurt himself doing those kinds of things. I can't claim to have done so in the past three decades or more, but I have worn Van Heusen shirts. They were not great, but were also not so bad...just an acceptable quality shirt, sold at a very nice price! I haven't seen a Van Heusen store in quite some time...are they still around? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> get a load of those kicks...and I'm not referring to the shoes. A guy could hurt himself doing those kinds of things. I can't claim to have done so in the past three decades or more, but I have worn Van Heusen shirts. They were not great, but were also not so bad...just an acceptable quality shirt, sold at a very nice price! I haven't seen a Van Heusen store in quite some time...are they still around? :icon_scratch:


Good question as, like you, I remember the brand from way back as being a mid-level, okay-value brand (I'm pretty sure we sold them when I worked for Sterns department store in the '80s, in college - a mid-level department store if there ever was one).

And, despite not having seen the brand in many years, it apparently is still around kicking after having grown into a brand conglomerate by acquiring or licensing a bunch of other (mainly, mid-level) well-known brands.

Here's its website:
https://vanheusen.partnerbrands.com/en
And here's its history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PVH_(company)


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## Fading Fast

Another Van Heusen one:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Another Van Heusen one:
> View attachment 47929


"Puff the magic dragon 
lived by the sea;
and He frolicked in the Autumn mists
of a land called Honili......."

....and the lyrics played on, with many assuming the lyric to that song referred to certain aspects of illicit drug use. However, as is made clear in your illustration for today, the lyrics of that song were intended to reflect the challenges and difficulties of growing up...as was expressed by the author of those lyrics. Poor Puff eventually loses out to the irresistible appeal of the wench!


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## Fading Fast

Not '50s, but a neat illustration.


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## Fading Fast

He's ready for the weekend.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48016
> 
> He's ready for the weekend.


Oh my, I'm sure glad those days are past! I'm not sure what to disagree with first...should it be the shorts paired with the navy blazer; should it be the silly looking hat; or should we turn our attention to the knee high socks and the high glosss penny(I think)) loafers? Never has a man worked so hard to come off looking so silly! LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Oh my, I'm sure glad those days are past! I'm not sure what to disagree with first...should it be the shorts paired with the navy blazer; should it be the silly looking hat; or should we turn our attention to the knee high socks and the high glosss penny(I think)) loafers? Never has a man worked so hard to come off looking so silly! LOL.


Not a look I'm a fan of, but does seem to be a version of the Bermuda shorts, knee socks and sport coat look that had some currency for a time back then.


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## Oldsarge

I like it. Admittedly its really only appropriate _in _Bermuda but that's a nice place to visit, I hear.


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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge

A club, probably in the tropics somewhere.


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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 48060
> 
> 
> A club, probably in the tropics somewhere.


How about the famed Raffles Club in Singapore, back in colonial times? The barmen look very faintly like Chinese or Malay persons, hence my guess. The other place that comes to mind is the Shepheard's Hotel bar in Cairo during the war years. The presence of men in military/police uniforms suggests these places as well, both were prominent hangouts for them. Shepheard's Hotel burned down in 1952, probably as part of the anti-British riots in Cairo.


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## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> How about the famed Raffles Club in Singapore, back in colonial times? The barmen look very faintly like Chinese or Malay persons, hence my guess. The other place that comes to mind is the Shepheard's Hotel bar in Cairo during the war years. The presence of men in military/police uniforms suggests these places as well, both were prominent hangouts for them. Shepheard's Hotel burned down in 1952, probably as part of the anti-British riots in Cairo.


But Raffles carries on.


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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> But Raffles carries on.
> 
> View attachment 48087


Indeed it does. Under new management, of course. Policies have changed these days and the Raffles, and the Tanglin Club, the other famous institution in Singapore, have long been open to people of all ethnicities, and not just to Europeans. All in all, a good thing. In fact most of the great London clubs like the Reform Club or the Travellers, now admit women as members. Garrick and White's are holdouts still on admitting women. Here's a picture of the Tanglin Club:


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## Oldsarge

I am disappointed that my club does not have reciprocal arrangements with either of the Singapore clubs--but--we do share a relationship with the Reform Club in London. The next time I am that direction (assuming I ever get to again) I shall have to stop by.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> I am disappointed that my club does not have reciprocal arrangements with either of the Singapore clubs--but--we do share a relationship with the Reform Club in London. The next time I am that direction (assuming I ever get to again) I shall have to stop by.


LOL, not being a member of any club that would actually want me as a member ( as the old Groucho line goes), I have no exchange privileges anywhere. But I do have a specialist "club" in London, the Royal Philatelic Society, which has just moved to new digs at 15 Abchurch Lane. One of these days, I'll visit London again, and go to these new premises. The Royal is actually not considered a club in the strict sense, but rather a "learned society".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Philatelic_Society_London

The Club I would really like to go to is the Travellers', in part because a dinner at that club is featured in the opening chapter of _Imperium_, my second novel about Malaya, which deals with the Malayan Emergency. (The first, _The Colony of Grace_, dealt with the Japanese Occupation during WWII). In this prologue, colleagues of an old Malaya hand have gathered at the club to have a dinner in his honour, since he has passed away. I did detailed research on the club, then asked the club's secretary if he would agree to read my opening chapter and let me know if I had made any errors or blunders. He kindly agreed, read the chapter and sent back a note saying that all of the details were accurate, and that when the book was published, the Club would love to receive a signed copy! That was extraordinarily nice of him: Almost Old World courtesy and decency.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48127


If we are looking at a Pendleton ad, that has got to be a Topster jacket As a collegian, I can't recall dressing quite that well? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> If we are looking at a Pendleton ad, that has got to be a Topster jacket As a collegian, I can't recall dressing quite that well? :icon_scratch:


I don't know, as the pic wasn't labeled in any way, but I thought it looked Pendleton-like too. Definitely not my '80s college experience. I like the way the artist captured the crease and cuffs in the trousers, the socks and the pennies.


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## Oldsarge

Definitely NOT my college experience! I went through the entire four years in jeans, t-shirts and Pendleton board shirts with occasional venture into Bermuda shorts and sandals when the temps got into the high 80's.


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Definitely NOT my college experience! I went through the entire four years in jeans, t-shirts and Pendleton board shirts with occasional venture into Bermuda shorts and sandals when the temps got into the high 80's.


What years were you in college?


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> What years were you in college?


1965-1969 and I was in Riverside, CA where bright sunny days in the low '80's were the norm during the school year. Smoggy days in triple digits were the norm in the summer!


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> 1965-1969


Wow, so you were there for, possibly, the four most-pivotal years to be on a college campus in the last hundred-plus years. And away from the big political stuff, but not unrelated, you saw the sartorial shift up close.


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## Oldsarge

Oh, we knew what was going on, for sure. Today that campus is a 24,000-student major research university but in those days it had about 1200, including the substantial graduate program. But we were a proud part of the University of California, albeit a relatively conservative part. I met my late wife there and my daughter was born there. UC, Riverside is holy ground to me.


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## Fading Fast

The guy on the left seems to be doing a kinda, sorta Bermuda-shorts-knee-high-socks thing, but I've never seen it done as part of a suit. Maybe McGregor was trying to make it a thing.

I remember a few years back, some of the younger brands like Club Monaco or Bonobos (don't remember which ones specifically) offering a suit with long shorts for pants. Thankfully, that seems to have stopped. But as we always learn, very little is really new.







]]

Bonus pic - not much clothing-wise, but love the illustration.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I don't know, as the pic wasn't labeled in any way, but I thought it looked Pendleton-like too. Definitely not my '80s college experience. I like the way the artist captured the crease and cuffs in the trousers, the socks and the pennies.


Somewhere around here, that very jacket in that fabric pattern is hidden within the hoard. I'll try to find it a take a "present day" picture of a Pendleton classic.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Somewhere around here, that very jacket in that fabric pattern is hidden within the hoard. I'll try to find it a take a "present day" picture of a Pendleton classic.


That would be neat. Always love seeing these "ad" clothes in the wild. Thank you.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

And a bonus one today:


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48253


Men must have been smaller, back in the day...the size range for that coat runs fro 32" to 40" chest measures. If memory serves me well this AM, I was bigger than that when I graduated from college. However, at $25, what a great price for a solid raincoat!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Men must have been smaller, back in the day...the size range for that coat runs fro 32" to 40" chest measures. If memory serves me well this AM, I was bigger than that when I graduated from college. However, at $25, what a great price for a slid raincoat!


As you're implying, I'm guessing those older English measures are very different from modern day American ones. Maybe we have a member who can enlighten us? That or, being a 40" myself, I need to move to that world where I'll be the barrel-chested big guy by comparison to everyone else  .

And what a classic looking raincoat it is. I had a version of that one up until fifteen years ago. However, I got a bit lazy about finding a replacement - always meant to, but never saw the one I wanted and didn't pursue it aggressively.

Then, eight-plus years ago, I started working from home and no longer needed it as my "close to" a classic, more-casual Timberland (when it was still a real company) raincoat does fine for the two or three times a years I need a traditional raincoat.

I wish our culture still dressed so that I did feel the need to buy that classic raincoat again. Over the years, I've owned, guessing, four or five of then - light tan and navy, some with a zip-in-zip-out lining, some unlined, some with a "fixed" wool lining - and enjoyed them all.

I like this style raincoat more than the trench for its cleaner lines and simplicity.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> ...$25, what a great price for a slid raincoat!


Guessing that ad to be circa 1940, then 2 guineas would have been about $125. The sale price, 25 shillings, about 70 USD. You should know this because I believe you buy your Centrum Silver, Metamucil, Maalox and Absorbine Junior in Florida farthings, no?

(What's a slid raincoat? Google refused to help.)


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> As you're implying, I'm guessing those older English measures are very different from modern day American ones. Maybe we have a member who can enlighten us? That or, being a 40" myself, I need to move to that world where I'll be the barrel-chested big guy by comparison to everyone else  .
> 
> And what a classic looking raincoat it is. I had a version of that one up until fifteen years ago. However, I got a bit lazy about finding a replacement - always meant to, but never saw the one I wanted and didn't pursue it aggressively.
> 
> Then, eight-plus years ago, I started working from home and no longer needed it as my "close to" a classic, more-casual Timberland (when it was still a real company) raincoat does fine for the two or three times a years I need a traditional raincoat.
> 
> I wish our culture still dressed so that I did feel the need to buy that classic raincoat again. Over the years, I've owned, guessing, four or five of then - light tan and navy, some with a zip-in-zip-out lining, some unlined, some with a "fixed" wool lining - and enjoyed them all.
> 
> I like this style raincoat more than the trench for its cleaner lines and simplicity.





Peak and Pine said:


> Guessing that ad to be circa 1940, then 2 guineas would have been about $125. The sale price, 25 shillings, about 70 USD. You should know this because I believe you buy your Centrum Silver, Metamucil, Maalox and Absorbine Junior in Florida farthings, no?
> 
> (What's a slid raincoat? Google refused to help.)


Egad! I have got to cease posting on autopilot in the AM, until I have had my second mug of Joe, at the very least. Forgive me for those earlier ramblings, drawn from a deep dark mental fog. :crazy:


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48326


LOL. A young man taking lessons on growing up. Hopefully those are his mom and dad that he is spying on, for an 'interloper' in these circumstances would create a sizeable disturbance in the force!


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. A young man taking lessons on growing up. Hopefully those are his mom and dad that he is spying on, for an 'interloper' in these circumstances would create a sizeable disturbance in the force!


Or one or the other of the amorous couple might be an older sibling. I'm thinking older sister?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. A young man taking lessons on growing up. Hopefully those are his mom and dad that he is spying on, for an 'interloper' in these circumstances would create a sizeable disturbance in the force!





Oldsarge said:


> Or one or the other of the amorous couple might be an older sibling. I'm thinking older sister?


I really am getting old as the thing that most caught my attention were his white bucks with red soles.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Social distancing is possible in air travel if we all are willing to pay $10,000 a ticket.

⇩ A fun (I'm guessing) modern illustration.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I really am getting old as the thing that most caught my attention where his white bucks with red soles.


The thing that caught my attention the most is the object in the boy's hand -- is that a gun?

And doesn't the fellow in the blue jacket look a bit like Clark Gable? Maybe he's telling the redhead (one named Scarlett, LOL) "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> As you're implying, I'm guessing those older English measures are very different from modern day American ones. Maybe we have a member who can enlighten us? That or, being a 40" myself, I need to move to that world where I'll be the barrel-chested big guy by comparison to everyone else  .
> 
> And what a classic looking raincoat it is. I had a version of that one up until fifteen years ago. However, I got a bit lazy about finding a replacement - always meant to, but never saw the one I wanted and didn't pursue it aggressively.
> 
> Then, eight-plus years ago, I started working from home and no longer needed it as my "close to" a classic, more-casual Timberland (when it was still a real company) raincoat does fine for the two or three times a years I need a traditional raincoat.
> 
> I wish our culture still dressed so that I did feel the need to buy that classic raincoat again. Over the years, I've owned, guessing, four or five of then - light tan and navy, some with a zip-in-zip-out lining, some unlined, some with a "fixed" wool lining - and enjoyed them all.
> 
> I like this style raincoat more than the trench for its cleaner lines and simplicity.


These remarks reminded me of an enjoyable visit to the USS Constitution, Old Ironsides, many years ago in Boston Harbor. After touring the decks, I went below and saw the quarters where the officers and the men slept, and I was surprised to find that I could not stand up straight in many of those spaces. And I am 5'-8" tall, which is one inch below average now for the American male. Over the years, or the centuries, people have grown taller, and bigger too -- perhaps as a result of improved nutrition. Maybe that was the reason, perhaps, for the size differences. The English may have been smaller too, back in the 1940s, if that is the date for the advert.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The thing that caught my attention the most is the object in the boy's hand -- is that a gun?
> 
> And doesn't the fellow in the blue jacket look a bit like Clark Gable? Maybe he's telling the redhead (one named Scarlett, LOL) "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."


I just assumed it was a toy gun - they were a popular toy up through the '70s, but just an assumption.

Yes, the man's got a bit of a Gable echo, but I just received a text from this young lady who takes umbrage at your comparison of her to, as the text message said, "that redhead:"


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> These remarks reminded me of an enjoyable visit to the USS Constitution, Old Ironsides, many years ago in Boston Harbor. After touring the decks, I went below and saw the quarters where the officers and the men slept, and I was surprised to find that I could not stand up straight in many of those spaces. And I am 5'-8" tall, which is one inch below average now for the American male. Over the years, or the centuries, people have grown taller, and bigger too -- perhaps as a result of improved nutrition. Maybe that was the reason, perhaps, for the size differences. The English may have been smaller too, back in the 1940s, if that is the date for the advert.


I hear ya, I toured a WWII submarine (at the Intrepid museum in NYC), and, while at 6'1", I'm not short, there are plenty of taller people in the world, but I spent the entire tour hunched over and ducking this and that. I love the idea of submarines, but can't imaging serving on one of those WWII ones for weeks on end.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I hear ya, I toured a WWII submarine (at the Intrepid museum in NYC), and, while at 6'1", I'm not short, there are plenty of taller people in the world, but I spent the entire tour hunched over and ducking this and that. I love the idea of submarines, but can't imaging serving on one of those WWII ones for weeks on end.


Ha, ha, or on one of those fabled U-boats. The _Kriegsmarine_ would not have been the place for you back in WWII. But modern submarines are more spacious, I should think.

I did see the insides of the WWII German sub U-505 in the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. Pretty cramped quarters, I must say. Having to spend months inside those cigar tubes (or pig boats, as we Americans fondly label them), must have been mind-numbing. One of my classmates from school became a submarine commander (and later Flag Officer) in the Indian Navy. He has talked about the long periods under water.

Every now and then, I watch _Run Silent, Run Deep,_ the granddaddy of all submarine movies. There are several other sub films that are pretty good, including _Das Boot_. I've read that Wolfgang Petersen actually made his cast for that film stay in the submarine for weeks, just to make their acting realistic.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I just assumed it was a toy gun - they were a popular toy up through the '70s, but just an assumption.
> 
> Yes, the man's got a bit of a Gable echo, but I just received a text from this young lady who takes umbrage at your comparison of her to, as the text message said, "that redhead:"
> View attachment 48385


Was that a text or a telegram? Ms Leigh would have been familiar with telegrams, but I daresay she did not live into the age of texting, having passed away in 1967. Maybe they do have smartphones where she lives now, in the Happy Hunting Ground for Actors. Maybe she wouldn't be so cross with me had I named her Scarlet-with-one-t, which would be most appropriate for a redhead.

And then there's the whole issue of subtext in all of this (sorry, couldn't resist!) Part of the subtext for me is a young lady friend whose online _nomme de guerre_ is Scarlett Monroe, taken from two women she likes a lot.

By the way, I looked up Vivien Leigh. She was born in my old country as Vivien Hartley, back in colonial times. She may have had Indian ancestry on her mum's side. Her maternal grandfather was an Anglo-Indian.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> I just assumed it was a toy gun - they were a popular toy up through the '70s, but just an assumption.
> 
> Yes, the man's got a bit of a Gable echo, but I just received a text from this young lady who takes umbrage at your comparison of her to, as the text message said, "that redhead:"
> View attachment 48385


Watching Cash Cab yesterday, I learned a new term (Gingerism). In England, apparently there is a social bias against redheads. I had no idea!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Was that a text or a telegram? Ms Leigh would have been familiar with telegrams, but I daresay she did not live into the age of texting, having passed away in 1967. Maybe they do have smartphones where she lives now, in the Happy Hunting Ground for Actors. Maybe she wouldn't be so cross with me had I named her Scarlet-with-one-t, which would be most appropriate for a redhead.
> 
> And then there's the whole issue of subtext in all of this (sorry, couldn't resist!) Part of the subtext for me is a young lady friend whose online _nomme de guerre_ is Scarlett Monroe, taken from two women she likes a lot.
> 
> By the way, I looked up Vivien Leigh. She was born in my old country as Vivien Hartley, back in colonial times. She may have had Indian ancestry on her mum's side. Her maternal grandfather was an Anglo-Indian.


LOL, before posting, I debated, for a second, a telegram vs a text, but decided that, wherever Ms. Leigh is now, she's young and texting.

There is a pretty good movie on the Anglo-Indians' challenges in post-colonial India, *Bhowani Junction *(acknowledging that I have no familiarity with the issue away from the movie, so it could be very inaccurate), but with Ava Gardner in the staring role not Ms. Leigh. My brief comments on it here  #264 .


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## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> Watching Cash Cab yesterday, I learned a new term (Gingerism). In England, apparently there is a social bias against redheads. I had no idea!


How was the movie? I saw about fifteen minutes of it yesterday - the scene when James Garner came over to the house and then got a ride with Natalie Wood to the airport. It looks like a lot of the other very late '50s/early '60s soap-opera "big" movies that were being made at that time.


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## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> How was the movie? I saw about fifteen minutes of it yesterday - the scene when James Garner came over to the house and then got a ride with Natalie Wood to the airport. It looks like a lot of the other very late '50s/early '60s soap-opera "big" movies that were being made at that time.


I was watching the Game Show Network series titled "Cash Cab" rather than the movie "Cash McCall". If you've never watched the show, I'd recommend it.


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## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> I was watching the Game Show Network series titled "Cash Cab" rather than the movie "Cash McCall". If you've never watched the show, I'd recommend it.


Teaches me to read too quickly. Thank you for the recommendation.


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## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Teaches me to read too quickly. Thank you for the recommendation.


I'm guilty of reading too quickly also. It's something I've been working on with a relapse every now and then.


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## Oldsarge




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> LOL, before posting, I debated, for a second, a telegram vs a text, but decided that, wherever Ms. Leigh is now, she's young and texting.
> 
> There is a pretty good movie on the Anglo-Indians' challenges in post-colonial India, *Bhowani Junction *(acknowledging that I have no familiarity with the issue away from the movie, so it could be very inaccurate), but with Ava Gardner in the staring role not Ms. Leigh. My brief comments on it here  #264 .


Read the novel by John Masters aeons ago, and saw the movie as well. It was banned in India in the 1960s I think, because it was considered inflammatory and derogatory to Indians -- or so the censors thought. I didn't think so. No worries, it is a fairly accurate portrayal of a group of people who were looked down upon by both the English and the Indians. Stewart Granger played the British officer, Colonel Rodney Savage, along with Ava Gardner as Victoria Jones. Bill Travers played the part of Patrick Taylor, Victoria's childhood friend and sweetheart. I'll check out your comments.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48427


The fellow in the illustration really has his priorities screwed up. His classic beauty is trying to get his attention/ opinion of her new lingerie and block head is engaged with his 'thrift store tie collection!' What is wrong with that boy? :icon_scratch::crazy: LOL.


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## Fading Fast

A little different than our usual fare, but a heck of an illustration.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> A little different than our usual fare, but a heck of an illustration.
> View attachment 48464


....but what is attached to the hand/wrist wearing the Puka shell necklace? 
:icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ....but what is attached to the hand/wrist wearing the Puka shell necklace?
> :icon_scratch:


Based on the Sinatra bio I just finished, I'd say that since Frank had so many "girlfriends" at any one time, it would be hard to say even if you knew the exact day and hour of the pic.

That said, maybe whomever she is, she's the one that got Frank interested in puka-shell necklaces








Is that a Cartier tank watch on Frank? The large crown looks like it might be.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

I'm guessing '20s or early '30s on this one (love the way the football players are drawn):









And while a modern illustration, a nice vintage echo on this one:


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## Fading Fast




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## FiscalDean

It's interesting to see brown suits in advertising pre 1980's. I always thought brown was frowned upon until President Reagan wore one.


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## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> It's interesting to see brown suits in advertising pre 1980's. I always thought brown was frowned upon until President Reagan wore one.


Just from observation of movies and advertisements, the '60s seemed to be the "transition" decade where brown suits began to decline, in business attire in particular.

Prior to that, brown, while always less popular than grey or navy, seemed to be an acceptable color for a biz sit.

By the '80s, when I started working in NYC, it was 99% grey or navy suits in biz. TBH, I didn't notice any uptick in brown biz suits owing to Reagan, but we did talk about them more.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

While we know the returning WWII GIs popularized khakis on college campuses post war, this (and similar pics) argue that some version of the chino/khaki was already part of the college wardrobe before the war.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48637
> 
> While we know the returning WWII GIs popularized khakis on college campuses post war, this (and similar pics) argue that some version of the chino/khaki was already part of the college wardrobe before the war.


I suspect you are absolutely right, but also suspect the garment designs (higher waistlines, wider trouser legs, heavier pocket linings, etc.) embraced pre and post WWII were decidedly different. .


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I suspect you are absolutely right, but also suspect the garment designs (higher waistlines, wider trouser legs, heavier pocket linings, etc.) embraced pre and post WWII were decidedly different. .


No question about that, you're right. It's just interesting that chinos/khakis were already somewhat of a thing pre WWII with college kids.

Clearly not as popular as GIs would make them post WWII, but somehow they had found their way to college pre WWII. I see "pre-WWII" chinos/khakis in the movies from time to time, but usually worn by struggling theater types when not on stage or struggling artists.

If I wasn't lazy and didn't have a day job that I need to pay the bills, I might dig in more to learn about the "role and origin" of pre-war khakis/chinos, but alas, I am lazy and need to eat.


----------



## Oldsarge

I wonder if one reason for the lower waists in later khakis weren't related to a need to save rationed material during the war. I do recall reading that trouser cuffs disappeared for that reason until the after the end of hostilities.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48637
> 
> While we know the returning WWII GIs popularized khakis on college campuses post war, this (and similar pics) argue that some version of the chino/khaki was already part of the college wardrobe before the war.


True. The big factor was the returning GIs, at least in the US. But khakis were part of a kind of unofficial uniform in India, Malaya and other parts of Asia, long before the Second World War.
Some of the history of khakis that I have written about in various threads can also be found in Bruce Boyer's chapter _Khakis_, in his first book _Elegance._


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> I wonder if one reason for the lower waists in later khakis weren't related to a need to save rationed material during the war. I do recall reading that trouser cuffs disappeared for that reason until the after the end of hostilities.


You are absolutely right. Not only did men's trousers lose their pleats and cuffs (turn-ups, as we used to call them back in India), women's skirts became shorter, the hemlines went up, much to the delight of those eternal Lotharios, LOL.


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## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> You are absolutely right. Not only did men's trousers lose their pleats and cuffs (turn-ups, as we used to call them back in India), women's skirts became shorter, the hemlines went up, much to the delight of those eternal Lotharios, LOL.


Who says nothing good can come from war?


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> No question about that, you're right. It's just interesting that chinos/khakis were already somewhat of a thing pre WWII with college kids.
> 
> Clearly not as popular as GIs would make them post WWII, but somehow they had found their way to college pre WWII. I see "pre-WWII" chinos/khakis in the movies from time to time, but usually worn by struggling theater types when not on stage or struggling artists.
> 
> If I wasn't lazy and didn't have a day job that I need to pay the bills, I might dig in more to learn about the "role and origin" of pre-war khakis/chinos, but alas, I am lazy and need to eat.


Since I don't have a day job (being happily retired), I'll do the digging for you, @Fading Fast. Here are two references, the second by Boyer in Ivy Style recapping his book chapter a little, and focusing on Bill Thomas and his company:

https://shopcanoeclub.com/blogs/editorial/the-history-of-khakis-and-chinos

https://www.ivy-style.com/gi-bill-mr-thomas-and-his-postwar-khakis.html

In many ways, khakis along with OCBDs are a perfect combination and at the heart of Trad style. Combine those with a nicely-polished pair of penny loafers (US-made Bass Weejuns, ideally) and a tweed jacket or navy hopsack blazer, and you have the essential Trad uniform!

Khaki, by the way, is pronounced khaaki, with an extended "aah" sound in the middle. Most Americans, true to form in flattening all vowels that dare to stand upright, have made the word rhyme with the word "lackey".


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## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48661
> View attachment 48662


Why is she driving on the golf course?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Since I don't have a day job (being happily retired), I'll do the digging for you, @Fading Fast. Here are two references, the second by Boyer in Ivy Style recapping his book chapter a little, and focusing on Bill Thomas and his company:
> 
> https://shopcanoeclub.com/blogs/editorial/the-history-of-khakis-and-chinos
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/gi-bill-mr-thomas-and-his-postwar-khakis.html
> 
> In many ways, khakis along with OCBDs are a perfect combination and at the heart of Trad style. Combine those with a nicely-polished pair of penny loafers (US-made Bass Weejuns, ideally) and a tweed jacket or navy hopsack blazer, and you have the essential Trad uniform!
> 
> Khaki, by the way, is pronounced khaaki, with an extended "aah" sound in the middle. Most Americans, true to form in flattening all vowels that dare to stand upright, have made the word rhyme with the word "lackey".


Thank you very much. I haven't read them yet, but had to say thank you.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you very much. I haven't read them yet, but had to say thank you.


You're most welcome.


----------



## drpeter

FiscalDean said:


> Why is she driving on the golf course?


Good question. Maybe she wanted to splash rainwater on to the boys. But then, why is rain water collecting on the fairway? Maybe those with more familiarity with golf can enlighten us.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Since I don't have a day job (being happily retired), I'll do the digging for you, @Fading Fast. Here are two references, the second by Boyer in Ivy Style recapping his book chapter a little, and focusing on Bill Thomas and his company:
> 
> https://shopcanoeclub.com/blogs/editorial/the-history-of-khakis-and-chinos
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/gi-bill-mr-thomas-and-his-postwar-khakis.html
> 
> In many ways, khakis along with OCBDs are a perfect combination and at the heart of Trad style. Combine those with a nicely-polished pair of penny loafers (US-made Bass Weejuns, ideally) and a tweed jacket or navy hopsack blazer, and you have the essential Trad uniform!
> 
> Khaki, by the way, is pronounced khaaki, with an extended "aah" sound in the middle. Most Americans, true to form in flattening all vowels that dare to stand upright, have made the word rhyme with the word "lackey".


Good articles, thank you again for hunting them out.

The first article implies, but doesn't say, that since khakis have been around since the mid 1800s and part of the U.S. military since the 1920s, they could easily have found (and apparently did find) their way into civilian menswear by the '30s.

That's the connect that would be nice to find. Where did struggling artists / college kids / etc. (at least those are the people who I've seen wearing khakis in the '30s) find these pants to buy back then?


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Good articles, thank you again for hunting them out.
> 
> The first article implies, but doesn't say, that since khakis have been around since the mid 1800s and part of the U.S. military since the 1920s, they could easily have found (and apparently did find) their way into civilian menswear by the '30s.
> 
> That's the connect that would be nice to find. Where did struggling artists / college kids / etc. (at least those are the people who I've seen wearing khakis in the '30s) find these pants to buy back then?


At least one writer, then struggling, later famous, is noted for wearing khakis often: Jack Kerouac. There is also Gene Kelly. But what I don't know is whether these folks and others were wearing khakis before WWII. I'll do a bit more research.

Outside the USA, I believe civilians were wearing khakis even before the war, but certainly afterwards. It was inexpensive cloth and cotton drill, white and khaki, were standard tropical wear items: tough enough to withstand what local _dhobies_ (washermen) did to them, beating the dickens out of clothes on stones after soaping them, and then starching and ironing them until they felt like boards. You had to pummel or kick your way into the legs of the starched and ironed trousers when you got them back from the _dhoby._

I also remember watching the laundryman iron the clothes. They used extremely heavy charcoal irons with small holes on the sides through which you could see the special charcoal burning (these were coconut shells that would catch fire and then glow for a long time, heating the iron very evenly). I thought it was an incredible skill to have, ironing clothes without spilling any burning embers or ashes on to the clothes. I never had a burn hole in a garment in years. Of course, delicate fabrics and the occasional woolen were sent to the dry cleaners.

https://www.wallswithstories.com/household/charcoal-iron.html


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> At least one writer, then struggling, later famous, is noted for wearing khakis often: Jack Kerouac. There is also Gene Kelly. But what I don't know is whether these folks and others were wearing khakis before WWII. I'll do a bit more research.
> 
> Outside the USA, I believe civilians were wearing khakis even before the war, but certainly afterwards. It was inexpensive cloth and cotton drill, white and khaki, were standard tropical wear items: tough enough to withstand what local _dhobies_ (washermen) did to them, beating the dickens out of clothes on stones after soaping them, and then starching and ironing them until they felt like boards. You had to pummel or kick your way into the legs of the starched and ironed trousers when you got them back from the _dhoby._
> 
> I also remember watching the laundryman iron the clothes. They used extremely heavy charcoal irons with small holes on the sides through which you could see the special charcoal burning (these were coconut shells that would catch fire and then glow for a long time, heating the iron very evenly). I thought it was an incredible skill to have, ironing clothes without spilling any burning embers or ashes on to the clothes. I never had a burn hole in a garment in years. Of course, delicate fabrics and the occasional woolen were sent to the dry cleaners.
> 
> https://www.wallswithstories.com/household/charcoal-iron.html


As mentioned, I am confident that I have seen civilian men wearing khakis / chinos in movies in the '30s. But, to be honest, I don't remember which men in which movies, so I can't produce any pics, but will keep a sharp eye out in the future to find them. The men were mainly struggling artists or college kids; however, as you'll see below, from the little text I could find on this, it seems they were also worn by the uber-wealthy at play or when "exploring."

These are the few tidbits I was able to find in support:

1920s:
"From F. Scott Fitzgerald to Charles Lindbergh and Teddy Roosevelt, khakis became standard wear for explorers and adventurers. If you have ever seen Robert Redford in Out of Africa, that will kind of explain it." https://www.themanual.com/fashion/where-did-khaki-pants-come-from/

(Just a modern advertisement, so not compelling, but it's arguing they were around in civilian wear in the '30s)
"*1930s IVY Style Two-pleated Chino Trousers"*

The two-pleated trousers that have been popular since the 1930s (or even earlier). The loose trousers brought by the pleats to ensure comfort. It was originally the pants worn by the upper class when they participated in dances or leisure sports.

After the end of World War II, the rise of ivy style made khaki pants (some pleated pants, some did not), this kind of heat has been maintained until the 1990s, whether it is Kitano Takeshi or Wan Ziliang A pair of loose-fitting trousers create an aura. This kind of trousers may be suspected of being old-school, but if matched properly, it is not difficult to wear your own style." https://bronsonshop.com/collections/new-arrivals/products/1930s-ivy-style-two-pleated-chino-trousers

Now back to my day job where I actually get paid to work.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48683
> View attachment 48684


I had never heard of Marlboro Shirts, but today's illustration certainly broadens one's perspective on images of the Marlboro Man. The wrinkled leathery skin is gone, he smells better and to the fairer sex, he's gotta be a whole lot more cuddly! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I had never heard of Marlboro Shirts, but today's illustration certainly broadens one's perspective on images of the Marlboro Man. The wrinkled leathery skin is gone, he smells better and to the fairer sex, he's gotta be a whole lot more cuddly! LOL.


Funny ⇧

I hadn't heard of the brand either. I can't quite figure out how the shirt with the V and the waist band (the red and white one) even works. Is it some kind of popover?

The Manhattan ties are neat in a '50s kitschy way.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48683
> View attachment 48684


I have my doubts: The way the logo/name appears on the cigarette packet or adverts is different from the way it appears here in the clothing advert. Might it be an unrelated name?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I have my doubts: The way the logo/name appears on the cigarette packet or adverts is different from the way it appears here in the clothing advert. Might it be an unrelated name?


I think it is a different company and @eagle2250 was just being tongue-in-cheek.


----------



## Fading Fast

Note the shield (I'm assuming it's a prep school one) on the boy's blazer. That's what Ralph is riffing on, I guess, with all his large shields on things today.

There's a lot of cool stuff in this illustration.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48706
> 
> Note the shield (I'm assuming it's a prep school one) on the boy's blazer. That's what Ralph is riffing on, I guess, with all his large shields on things today.
> 
> There's a lot of cool stuff in this illustration.


I have to wonder, who is the partner of that woman and how much will this excursion to a fly fishing shop cost him when it's her turn to take him shopping.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I think it is a different company and @eagle2250 was just being tongue-in-cheek.


Indeed I was running "tongue in cheek." The clothing and the tobacco interests were represented by two very different companies. which I believe were in operation during two different periods of time. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48706
> 
> Note the shield (I'm assuming it's a prep school one) on the boy's blazer. That's what Ralph is riffing on, I guess, with all his large shields on things today.
> 
> There's a lot of cool stuff in this illustration.


A great Post cover design, but was there ever a time when younger, and older men as well (I guess) went to the local sporting goods/outdoor store dressed that well? It may not have been April 26th, but I know I was haunting the local sporting good s store in Lock Haven, PA, back in 1958. I cannot recall ever seeing a sport/suit jacket or neck tie in that store, but I bought my first Fenwick Fly Rod from them! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A great Post cover design, but was there ever a time when younger, and older men as well (I guess) went to the local sporting goods/outdoor store dressed that well? It may not have been April 26th, but I know I was haunting the local sporting good s store in Lock Haven, PA, back in 1958. I cannot recall ever seeing a sport/suit jacket or neck tie in that store, but I bought my first Fenwick Fly Rod from them! LOL.


Certainly not something I grew up seeing in a nondescript New Jersey town in the '70s. But if the movies are to be believe - a very dangerous assumption - in NYC, in the '50s, I could see people going to Abercrombie and Fitch dressed that way, but was that reality (away from the movies)? I don't know.


----------



## Charles Dana

FiscalDean said:


> Why is she driving on the golf course?


She overheard one of the golfers saying that he needed a driver.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another Marlboro one:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Another Marlboro one:
> View attachment 48754


Admittedly, I was not aware of the brand way back when, but I must tell you I have long harbored a somewhat secret fascination with and yearning for a collection of those bowling shirts worn by Charlie Sheen on the TV show Two And A Half Men. Oddly, those Marlboro camp/sport shirts appeal to me in a similar manner. Is it possible there is a 'bad judgement gene hiding somewhere in my DNA mix? :icon_scratch:


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Admittedly, I was not aware of the brand way back when, but I must tell you I have long harbored a somewhat secret fascination with and yearning for a collection of those bowling shirts worn by Charlie Sheen on the TV show Two And A Half Men. Oddly, those Marlboro camp/sport shirts appeal to me in a similar manner. Is it possible there is a 'bad judgement gene hiding somewhere in my DNA mix? :icon_scratch:


LOL, I hesitate to ask, but I'm wondering if SWMBO has had any contributions to this line of thinking on your part, @eagle2250. Would she approve, or would she come down hard on this secret fascination?


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Another Marlboro one:
> View attachment 48754


As a child in Old Malaya, I had one of these shirts -- this was in the fifties. When my Dad bought it for me, I asked him what it was called, and he said, quite simply, "A V shirt, of course".


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> LOL, I hesitate to ask, but I'm wondering if SWMBO has had any contributions to this line of thinking on your part, @eagle2250. Would she approve, or would she come down hard on this secret fascination?


SWMBO hasn't been fully involved in, nor has she been excluded from such considerations. However, "would she approve or would she come down hard on" such sartorial fantasies/escapades? My guess is that Mrs Eagle would stoically endure on this issue. Although she does seem to like it when we dress in styles reminiscent of the 1960's and 1970's. I'm currently trying to convince her to get a recreated pleated Poodle skirt design and she seems somewhat resistant to that! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Thoughts on his pants: khakis, wool, something else?


----------



## drpeter

The thickish seams look double-lapped (swelled?) to me, and those are usually found on casual pants with thick material like denim or duck (from the Dutch _doek_, used for sailor's pants) or canvas cloth. The slight flare in the legs also suggests bell-bottoms worn by sailors. So I would bet on duck or canvas, although khaki/beige is an unusual colour for pants made from that kind of cloth. The canvas/duck trousers I have seen are usually off-white or cream.

The labels on the barrel suggest Puritan and Soda, and there was indeed a Puritan Beverage Company, at least in the 1930s-1940s. The last few letters on the yellow sheet inside the box suggest football, and the letter C on his collegiate sweater and on her pennant suggests Columbia -- could be some other college or university as well. I wonder if the other letter H on the pennant inside the box might be for Harvard. Could there have been a Harvard-Columbia game in November 1936?

Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The thickish seams look double-lapped (swelled?) to me, and those are usually found on casual pants with thick material like denim or duck (from the Dutch _doek_, used for sailor's pants) or canvas cloth. The slight flare in the legs also suggests bell-bottoms worn by sailors. So I would bet on duck or canvas, although khaki/beige is an unusual colour for pants made from that kind of cloth. The canvas/duck trousers I have seen are usually off-white or cream.
> 
> The labels on the barrel suggest Puritan and Soda, and there was indeed a Puritan Beverage Company, at least in the 1930s-1940s. The last few letters on the yellow sheet inside the box suggest football, and the letter C on his collegiate sweater and on her pennant suggests Columbia -- could be some other college or university as well. I wonder if the other letter H on the pennant inside the box might be for Harvard. Could there have been a Harvard-Columbia game in November 1936?
> 
> Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


You did a lot of smart detective work. Duck makes sense (good call), except, as you note, an unusual color for the material. I was hoping we - based on our early conversation in this thread - had found a '30s example of chinos.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.


Ah, but there be more to the story to deduce. A gallon of water weighs 8+ pounds. That's about a 25 gallon barrel on the kid's shoulders. So it is empty. It is wooden. Gal is dragging a wooden carton full of wood scraps. Look at the unique, red lighting. Sizzle, sizzle, snap, pop. It is the light a bon fire gives off. That, or they're heading into a Satanic ritual (which can be fun by the way). Cornell, Colby, Colgate, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western Reserve are a few of the other "C"colleges that come to mind while digging on the kid's Jughead cap.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> You did a lot of smart detective work. Duck makes sense (good call), except, as you note, an unusual color for the material. I was hoping we - based on our early conversation in this thread - had found a '30s example of chinos.


Why, thank you. It's still quite possible that it might be a pair of chinos. Perhaps one of our other members might be able to throw light on this possibility. I'm fairly sure there were chinos being made for civilian use in the thirties. The only unusual aspect is the flared pants, and that could be just the way it looks to me.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Ah, but there be more to the story to deduce. A gallon of water weighs 8+ pounds. That's about a 25 gallon barrel on the kid's shoulders. So it is empty. It is wooden. Gal is dragging a wooden carton full of wood scraps. Look at the unique, red lighting. Sizzle, sizzle, snap, pop. It is the light a bon fire gives off. That, or they're heading into a Satanic ritual (which can be fun by the way). Cornell, Colby, Colgate, Carnegie Mellon, Case Western Reserve are a few of the other "C"colleges that come to mind, while digging on the kid's Jughead cap.


Good points, Sherlock Holmes! Maybe a bonfire of the vanities, thirties style?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Why, thank you. It's still quite possible that it might be a pair of chinos. Perhaps one of our other members might be able to throw light on this possibility. I'm fairly sure there were chinos being made for civilian use in the thirties. The only unusual aspect is the flared pants, and that could be just the way it looks to me.


I am 99.9% sure I've seen chinos several times in movies from the '30s (and will now note when I do). I'm also reasonably sure I've seen pictorial evidence in ads, etc. from the period.

However, I don't remember the specific movies and have had, as you guys have seen, only marginal success finding pictorial or other clear evidence of their use by civilians in the '30s.

I'll be watching carefully going forward for evidence. We'll find it.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> No question about that, you're right. It's just interesting that chinos/khakis were already somewhat of a thing pre WWII with college kids.
> 
> Clearly not as popular as GIs would make them post WWII, but somehow they had found their way to college pre WWII. I see "pre-WWII" chinos/khakis in the movies from time to time, but usually worn by struggling theater types when not on stage or struggling artists.
> 
> If I wasn't lazy and didn't have a day job that I need to pay the bills, I might dig in more to learn about the "role and origin" of pre-war khakis/chinos, but alas, I am lazy and need to eat.





drpeter said:


> I'm fairly sure there were chinos being made for civilian use in the thirties. The only unusual aspect is the flared pants, and that could be just the way it looks to me.


I've been looking into the role that khakis played in civilian menswear between the Spanish-American War of 1898 and the end of the 1930's. (People who have written about the history of civilian-worn khakis seem to have overlooked that span of time.) I'm currently organizing the information I have found so that I can present it in a semi-coherent way.

When I post my findings, I'll probably do so in a new thread so as not to hijack this one. Whatever I write, it will be an incomplete accounting as there is just too much material to put into a discussion forum post. I'll get to it as soon as I can.


----------



## drpeter

Charles Dana said:


> I've been looking into the role that khakis played in civilian menswear between the Spanish-American War of 1898 and the end of the 1930's. (People who have written about the history of civilian-worn khakis seem to have overlooked that span of time.) I'm currently organizing the information I have found so that I can present it in a semi-coherent way.
> 
> When I post my findings, I'll probably do so in a new thread so as not to hijack this one. Whatever I write, it will be an incomplete accounting as there is just too much material to put into a discussion forum post. I'll get to it as soon as I can.


Thanks very much indeed. That is a great project, and I shall look forward to reading your material.


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## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> I've been looking into the role that khakis played in civilian menswear between the Spanish-American War of 1898 and the end of the 1930's. (People who have written about the history of civilian-worn khakis seem to have overlooked that span of time.) I'm currently organizing the information I have found so that I can present it in a semi-coherent way.
> 
> When I post my findings, I'll probably do so in a new thread so as not to hijack this one. Whatever I write, it will be an incomplete accounting as there is just too much material to put into a discussion forum post. I'll get to it as soon as I can.


Like drpeter, really, really excited to see what you have.


----------



## Fading Fast

With temperatures dipping into the 60s overnight recently, for the first time in a long time, these seemed appropriate to think about:


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## Fading Fast

Intra-day bonus from a Brooks Brothers email I received this morning:


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## DCR

Fading Fast said:


> With temperatures dipping into the 60s overnight recently, for the first time in a long time, these seemed appropriate to think about:
> View attachment 48823
> View attachment 48824


I want a bear cat coat badly. One showed up on eBay in my size last year for $800 and I now regret not buying it even if I needed a bunch of scotch to be seen out in public wearing it.


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## Fading Fast

DCR said:


> I want a bear cat coat badly. One showed up on eBay in my size last year for $800 and I now regret not buying it even if I needed a bunch of scotch to be seen out in public wearing it.


It's definitely a statement coat. I like the blankets he's holding.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

⇧ Nuddin' on the Rockwell, hmm, with saddle shoes, a possible poplin suit and some other fun details, I thought it would garner a response or two.

Oh well, let's try this ⇩ today:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nuddin' on the Rockwell, hmm, with saddle shoes, a possible poplin suit and some other fun details, I thought it would garner a response or two.
> 
> Oh well, let's try this ⇩ today:
> View attachment 48870


McGregor, a rig for all seasons...and then some!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> McGregor, a rig for all seasons...and then some!


Good point, the company's offerings really did cover a lot of territory. I had a few McGregor items as a kid / young man, but they were all casual things (a Harrington-like jacket comes to mind). I don't remember McGregor offering dress clothes in the '80s. Maybe it did, I just don't remember ever running into them.


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## Fading Fast

Out of season, but more McGregor:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Out of season, but more McGregor:
> View attachment 48902


One can't help but note two things from the illustration featured; 1) in the upper right quadrant, Frosty is better dressed than his human company and 2) in the lower left quadrant, who among us doesn't recall going out sledding with but a light jacket or sweater to warm them and never realizing that we were freezing our buns off? LOL


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> One can't help but note two things from the illustration featured; 1) in the upper right quadrant, Frosty is better dressed than his human company and 2) in the lower left quadrant, who among us doesn't recall going out sledding with but a light jacket or sweater to warm them and never realizing that we were freezing our buns off? LOL


1. Yes, 2. Yes and 3. lower-right quadrant, (as the kids would say) IRL - thankfully - I don't believe I've ever seen a man match his sweater pattern to his sock pattern.


----------



## Oldsarge

DCR said:


> I want a bear cat coat badly. One showed up on eBay in my size last year for $800 and I now regret not buying it even if I needed a bunch of scotch to be seen out in public wearing it.


If I lived somewhere it got cold enough for one of those, I'd be looking for raccoon, reprobate that I am.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

What caught my eye in this one, besides it being a darn good illustration, are his boat shoes (at least I think they are boat shoes).


----------



## drpeter

I do like boat shoes, although I don't have very many. I've recently acquired three pairs of boat shoes from Goodwill, all US-made and all in fine nick: A Cole-Haan, a Dexter (these are both dark suede with brown leather trim), and an all-leather tan/brown Timberland.

There is a Made-in-Maine Sperry Topsider that is available from their website, Several models, all of them splendid-looking, but it is very expensive at around $375. I'm thinking about it, and wondering if their price might come down a bit, perhaps a year-end sale or some such event. I am looking at Rancourt too, they have less expensive boat shoes that are US-made. Sebago also makes good shoes, but I am not sure they are made in the US anymore.


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## Fading Fast

With the temperatures finally dipping into the high 60s overnight, it seemed appropriate to at least start thinking about colder weather.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

I really like his briefcase.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49105
> 
> I really like his briefcase.


Maybe it's the light grey suit, but this chap reminds me of Tom Ewell in _The Seven Year Itch._


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Maybe it's the light grey suit, but this chap reminds me of Tom Ewell in _The Seven Year Itch._


Funny, I saw about twenty minutes of that on TCM last week. And agree, there's an echo. A lot of neat Ivy clothes in that movie as well.


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## Peak and Pine

Another example of why Rockwell is The Great American Illustrator. He paints in freeze frame, a cinematic term he may not have known, but he knew what a still was and he knew that was what the other guys did and he said nuts to that. To me, only one other illustrator rides so high, their styles and subject matter so disparate though, one was the idol of the other, maybe even of each other, the innovator of light through darkness, Maxfield Parrish. Yes, the briefcase here is a well rendered still life, but it's the stop action of the entire scene that testifies.(And the ad copy's no slouch.)


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49042


Not to be argumentative, but what about that jacket constitutes a live action look. Where are the action back shoulders, the box pleated back, etc.? :icon_scratch:


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## Peak and Pine

Peak and Pine said:


> To me, only one other illustrator rides so high, their styles and subject matter so disparate though, one was the idol of the other, maybe even of each other, the innovator of light through darkness, Maxfield Parrish.


This is Parrish...


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49128
> View attachment 49129


Just in time for sweater season, up here in the soon-to-be-frozen North...I'm looking forward to a long, colourful Fall, when I can wear those fall colours in my sweaters and my houndstooth and district check sports jackets.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Just in time for sweater season, up here in the soon-to-be-frozen North...I'm looking forward to a long, colourful Fall, when I can wear those fall colours in my sweaters and my houndstooth and district check sports jackets.


Ditto, except my sport coats are almost all herringbone. Can't wait for fall.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Ditto, except my sport coats are almost all herringbone. Can't wait for fall.


I have some herringbones too, LOL. My two favourites are a grey and a brown Harris Tweed, both 3-roll-2 sacks from J Press. I have been debating about whether I should get my tailor to take them in a bit at the waist and back, since I've lost a fair bit of weight after I bought them ages ago.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49128
> View attachment 49129


An informative and entertaining illustration, for sure. Although, this year, while timely, it would be socially out of step. Several conferences are not playing and those that are, are enforcing social distancing in the stadium, reducing crowd size to just 25% of normal (I think?). Alas, times have changed, but the design of those sweaters would still be current!


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

The temps have dropped enough and the humidity has risen sufficiently that fire is less likely to overcome the Cabin on the Corner. In fact, the temps have dropped enough that I have abandoned shorts (at least for the present) and even taken to wearing a board shirt over my polo and jeans--at least in the morning. Let there be autumn!

And Peak has it nailed. Maxfield Parrish and Norman Rockwell took 'illustration' beyond the narrow, parochial bounds of the insular New York critics into the wider realms of art that approached the Renaissance Masters. Stick it in your ear, Clemmie Greenberg!


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

So it's 1967 and Ivy Style is about to be taken out back and shot, but you can see, even in this ad - in her almost "hip" outfit - that the late '60s are coming.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Extra credit to the artist for strict adherence to the positions, and the sexual differences, of the way text books were carried back in the day. Very important. Sorta like the leg crossing thing, a guy at the knees, women at the ankles.


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## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49256
> 
> So it's 1967 and Ivy Style is about to be taken out back and shot, but you can see, even in this ad - in her almost "hip" outfit - that the late '60s are coming.


Yes. Fashions for young women started veering toward the "mod" look in the second half of 1966.


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## Charles Dana

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> 
> Extra credit to the artist for strict adherence to the positions, and the sexual differences, of the way text books were carried back in the day. Very important. Sorta like the leg crossing thing, a guy at the knees, women at the ankles.


I remember when sweaters like that were in style. I wish they still were. And that's an astute observation about the girl way and the boy way of carrying textbooks. In the late 60s, students didn't use backpacks. If a kid had to carry a few thick books to and from school, too bad. My 9th-grade world history book was a beast.


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## Fading Fast

A picture not an illustration, but still seemed in the spirit of what we do here. Note the Hudson Bay coat in the center.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49317


I do like the high waist on those trousers. Wish that would come back into style.


----------



## London380sl

I hope not. With the current emphasis on slim fit - imagine slim fit high waisted pants.

Yikes! They actually exist.

Those pants have got to be nut busters when you sit down.


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## drpeter

London380sl said:


> I hope not. With the current emphasis on slim fit - imagine slim fit high waisted pants.
> 
> Yikes! They actually exist.
> 
> Those pants have got to be nut busters when you sit down.
> View attachment 49324


Do people actually wear such things?


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Do people actually wear such things?


Good Lawd, I hope not! LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Charles Dana said:


> ... that's an astute observation about the girl way and the boy way of carrying textbooks. In the late 60s, students didn't use backpacks. If a kid had to carry a few thick books to and from school, too bad. My 9th-grade world history book was a beast.


Before our times, but not much, kids used to carry books in a leather strap, and until the 70s, yellow diamond shaped street signs forewarning of a school or a crossing carried the silhouette of a boy and girl, pig tails on the girl, books with the strap dangling on the guy. (Will try to seen if I can find an internet pic of this, to bolster my drooling memory.)


----------



## Fading Fast

"Command Collar," the boys in marketing are always hard at work.


----------



## Fading Fast

Looks '20s to me, but a neat illustration. Note the 3/2 roll with the bottom button buttoned.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Looks '20s to me, but a neat illustration. Note the 3/2 roll with the bottom button buttoned.
> View attachment 49416


What a great illustration. Apologies to Margaret Atwood, but it brings a whole new meaning to the term "a handmaids tale!" LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> What a great illustration. Apologies to Margaret Atwood, but it brings a whole new meaning to the term "a handmaids tale!" LOL.


Ever since @Flanderian created his long-running "Esquire" thread, I've been interested in the way different illustrators "capture" the details of clothing. For example, in this illustration, the shirt collar and tie knot are almost undefined, but that technique works beautifully here.

Also, I wonder if the ad wasn't for the coat (even though the suit could be the star) as the lining of the coat looks so beautifully luxurious that you almost want to buy it without knowing what the coat itself really looks like.


----------



## Oldsarge

Migawd, he's wearing _spats_!


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Migawd, he's wearing _spats_!


If my guess is right about it being the 1920s, then spats makes sense as they were quite common. I see them in movies up through the '50s, but much more common in the '20s and '30s. They were dying off by the '40s and '50s.


----------



## Oldsarge

I only ever saw them on Uncle Scrooge . . .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From the "Ivy Style" website:















Link the site and article: https://www.ivy-style.com/something-solid-an-interview-with-artist-andrew-mashanov.html


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From the "Ivy Style" website:
> View attachment 49488
> View attachment 49489
> 
> Link the site and article: https://www.ivy-style.com/something-solid-an-interview-with-artist-andrew-mashanov.html


The illustrations give rise to much thought as one studies them and the article provides rather interesting background details, allowing a quick glimpse into the mind of the artist. Your post did more to wake me up and get me thinking, this AM than did a pot of coffee! Thank you.


----------



## Fading Fast

Looks '20s to me, neat illustration.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Looks '20s to me, neat illustration.
> View attachment 49527


For the most part your assessment of the age of the illustration is spot-on, but the ties of both gentlemen seem out of place...they do not appear vintage! Just a thought.


----------



## Fading Fast

Note the shoes - look like blue suede or maybe canvas.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49560
> 
> Note the shoes - look like blue suede or maybe canvas.


An illustration of a gentleman, perfectly dressed to go out and take on the world! There isn't much detail to work with, but I would like to think those kicks are blue suede.


----------



## drpeter

I like the DB blazer, especially its button stance.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> An illustration of a gentleman, perfectly dressed to go out and take on the world! There isn't much detail to work with, but I would like to think those kicks are blue suede.





drpeter said:


> I like the DB blazer, especially its button stance.


I'm not a big DB-blazer fan, but this one looks really good on this guy, in part, because the proportions and tailoring are so perfect.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Jack Vettriano.


----------



## drpeter

Vettriano did a number of these photo-realist paintings that combined both elegance and eroticism in a blend that could be called noir-ish. While not identical, it reminds me obliquely of the rotoshop techniques employed by film makers, specifically Richard Linklater's film _A Scanner Darkly_ based on Philip K Dick's eponymous novel. A film worth watching.

One of the fine things about this sort of art is that it strongly evokes a kind of sub-text or sub-image that suggests to us that there is more than what captures the eye in the basic image being provided to us.

I believe good art must evoke many levels, and the presented image (or words or music) should trigger all sorts of associations and feelings in us that derive, at least in part, from the way the details of what is presented are structured. In short, technique is a doorway into those associations, and this painting captures such things admirably.


----------



## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49663


I like the design. It has a nit of a military edge to it, sort of like an Ike Jacket with a zipper closure rather than the buttons. I'm not sure of the date of the illustration, but while I am quite familiar with the McGregor brand, I don't recall ever seeing those designs while growing up in the 1950s/1960s.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I like the design. It has a nit of a military edge to it, sort of like an Ike Jacket with a zipper closure rather than the buttons. I'm not sure of the date of the illustration, but while I am quite familiar with the McGregor brand, I don't recall ever seeing those designs while growing up in the 1950s/1960s.


I thought the ad/items looked a little different than the traditional McGregor offering. I just Googled it and it says it's from 1955.

Also, it's odd that the color of the jackets match the color of the cars. I get that the ad copy says these are going to be race-car colors, but really? Is that truly a selling point to anyone over the age of eight?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49670


I know it is wishful thinking, but looking at those prices and the design of those suits, I can't help but wish I had access to a time machine. I would go back in time and buy one of each of those suits, in each hue they were offered! Just in case I can find the transportation, would you know if they accepted Apple pay back then? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I know it is wishful thinking, but looking at those prices and the design of those suits, I can't help but wish I had access to a time machine. I would go back in time and buy one of each of those suits, in each hue they were offered! Just in case I can find the transportation, would you know if they accepted Apple pay back then? LOL.


It's a fun concept to think about. If you could find a time machine, you'd need physical currency dating from that period or earlier. My guess, they also accepted bank checks, personal checks (with proof of identity) or (with ID again) you could open an account with the store where they'd bill you by mail monthly. Oh, and maybe traveler checks. I know traveler checks were in use back then, so I assume stores accepted them (of course, yours would have to be dated from that period). Also, I have no idea if, back then, local stores in small towns that didn't get many visitors/tourists would accept them.

Based on the style and prices, I'm guessing the ad is from the '30s or, maybe, early '40s, so credit cards as we know them didn't really exists (some individual stores had them, but that was more like having an account at the store than a true credit card) and, of course, none of our fancy new electronic payments were available.

My guess, your best bet would be to get currency with early '30s or '20s dates on it before you pop into the time machine.


----------



## drpeter

I like the suits, with one concern: The shoulders are a bit too wide for my taste, especially the silver gray number in the middle.

And to Eagle, I would just say that those suits can be replicated, either by a tailor (quite expensive nowadays) or by a diligent search for vintage items that correspond to the styles displayed. It might take time and money, but both these things are, shall we say, marginally more easy to come by, LOL, than a working time machine?

I've read that the people in charge of clothes for movies and TV series set in historic periods (like the 1960s period series _Mad Men_ for example) searched high and low for suits and dresses and other material that were period accurate and in good condition. They were indeed, very successful. It's a difficult task, but not impossible.


----------



## Fading Fast

Feels very mid '60s to me / British Invasion / dam hasn't quite broken yet.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

The pricing is mid-1960s.


----------



## drpeter

Interesting how McGregor had these "new" fabrics like Fortrel and, in an earlier advert, Automatek that are blends of artificial/polyester fibres mixed in with a little natural material like cotton or wool or flax. The blends must have been very popular then -- and maybe still are, except to purists.


----------



## Charles Dana

drpeter said:


> Interesting how McGregor had these "new" fabrics like Fortrel. The blends must have been very popular then -- and maybe still are, except to purists.


I remember Fortrel. In the 1960s, my mom would buy most of my clothes from Penney's (as J. C. Penney was then known). Back then, the briefs that I wore every day were the Penney's in-house brand-Towncraft. 50% cotton, 50% Fortrel polyester.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49729


For sure, handsome suits, great prices and the promising look of success on the faces of our Fab-four. However, the question I find myself stewing over is..."are they consulting on the design of a new suit or perhaps upgrading the design of a classic war bird?"


----------



## Fading Fast

Just a really cool illustration.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Just a really cool illustration.
> View attachment 49751


Impressive work, for sure, but the artists rendition of the human form is angular at best and downright jarring at worst! Just an opinion.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Impressive work, for sure, but the artists rendition of the human form is angular at best and downright jarring at worst! Just an opinion.


I'm out over my skis on this, so if we have any real art-knowledgable member, please jump in and correct me, but this work reminds me of Otto Dix's work and other German artists from the Weimar (and maybe early) period of Germany's history.

Since this looks like a German poster from that era - '20s/'30s Germany, it appears to have been influence by that artistic "movement."

And I agree, it's interesting and impressive, but can be jarring.


----------



## drpeter

Yes, it is reminiscent a bit of Dix and the Weimar period. I like the travel posters of the time, which can now be found reproduced on postcards. I did find another example of a poster from the same company, Isidor Bach, designed by Ludwig Hohlwein, and dated circa 1910.


----------



## drpeter

I also found more details about the Isidor Bach clothing company. Interesting and sad details in this wiki entry below, translated by Google from the German.

During the Nazi period, Isidor Bach, a Jew, had to transfer his business to a German (non-Jewish) partner Johann Konen, and being a "respected Jew", was deported, but allowed to go to Bern to live with his daughter.

https://translate.google.com/transl...edia.org/wiki/Isidor_Bach&prev=search&pto=aue


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Impressive work, for sure, but the artists rendition of the human form is angular at best and downright jarring at worst! Just an opinion.


I find it intriguing and dramatic--and most decidedly Teutonic.


----------



## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49768


LOL. We appear to be viewing 'the Mutha' of today's tartan fun shirts. Although, I suspect your illustration was created well before the term "fun shirt(s)" was coined? I can't recall ever being a big fan of the fun shirt movement. Truth be known, I am more impressed by that windbreaker than I am by the shirt.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. We appear to be viewing 'the Mutha' of today's tartan fun shirts. Although, I suspect your illustration was created well before the term "fun shirt(s)" was coined? I can't recall ever being a big fan of the fun shirt movement. Truth be known, I am more impressed by that windbreaker than I am by the shirt.


We really do think alike. I've never cared for the "fun shirt" at all. But also, like you, thought the jacket looked nice. I wonder if that shirt in the illustration was really just a way of showing the material samples and was not really a "fun shirt," meaning, McGregor did not expect someone to mix in different patterns in one shirt.

I also wonder how McGregor handled the ordering of those shirts for, what I assume really was, a MTM process. It is reasonably cumbersome to add MTM shirting to a store's responsibilities, especially one with, probably, no experience with doing something like that.


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## drpeter

And then, there's this stuff:

https://www.ivy-style.com/holy-scrap-fall-patchwork-items-from-brooks.html


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49784


Assuming that's a saucer held in the subject's left hand, we are looking at a vintage illustration. If it is a cellphone, not so vintage! Why would anyone be that intently focused on a saucer for a coffee cup? :icon_scratch:


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## drpeter

Perhaps it is a very small flying saucer, LOL, and Tennis Man is about to make contact with tiny, but powerful aliens arriving on the planet. Very small beings can make a positively gargantuan difference, as we have been finding out with a small collection of nucleic acids called a virus that seems to have brought earthlings to their knees. Or, worse, left them prostrate.

Incidentally, why do we hear about flying saucers, but never about flying cups?


----------



## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

This man is so tanned he could reasonably be mistaken for an Indian Army officer on leave, especially with the mustache, LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49899


An American brand/style, gifted with somewhat of an international oriental flavor. "Owa-tagu-siam!" LOL.


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## rl1856

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49857


I am staying at the Carlyle.....Meet me for a drink in the cafe ? We can take in the show...I understand they have a great new piano player.....


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## Fading Fast

rl1856 said:


> I am staying at the Carlyle.....Meet me for a drink in the cafe ? We can take in the show...I understand they have a great new piano player.....


Agreed, very Don Draper "Mad Men."


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

The trousers are great! I have several exactly like those, with forward pleats and a high rise, assuming they are grey flannel, or grey cotton. The shirt, however, is a bit too loud for my taste.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49980


Jeez Louise, if I could only go back just long enough to buy a few of those wool knit jacket/cardigan designs! They are indeed rather magnificent.


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## Fading Fast




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## DCR

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, if I could only go back just long enough to buy a few of those wool knit jacket/cardigan designs! They are indeed rather magnificent.


Indeed, the "highlander" immediately caught my eye. Also the Russian style pajamas are epic.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50030


Arrow Shirts are a brand that I am familiar with and have conffidence in.. The illustration above is particularly interesting, given the presumed age of the young men pictured and it's conflict with the caption of the illustration, "Arrow Grad Shirts." At best those young fellows have yet tyo finish prep school!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Arrow Shirts are a brand that I am familiar with and have conffidence in.. The illustration above is particularly interesting, given the presumed age of the young men pictured and it's conflict with the caption of the illustration, "Arrow Grad Shirts." At best those young fellows have yet tyo finish prep school!


I saw that seeming contradiction too and thought maybe they are saying to high school kids, "hey, these are the shirts that older, cooler college grads wear." But it certainly isn't clear.

Note the white bucks on the kid to the left (like we saw in a modern Polo ad in the Ralph thread yesterday).


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## Fading Fast

My guess is it's from the '20s, but it's such a nice illustration, I thought it's worth posting. Also, it's one you can see Ralph Lauren designers today using for inspiration.


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## Fading Fast

I'll grant you, there's not much to discuss about the clothes here, but the suit is well illustrated in its seeming simplicity.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50076
> 
> I'll grant you, there's not much to discuss about the clothes here, but the suit is well illustrated in its seeming simplicity.


...but looking closely at the art work, they did clothe him in what appears to be a herringbone tweed weave...a good choice that resists wrinkling on a long air flight! However that illustration is really going to tighten Gloria Steinem's jaws. LOL, the title says it all,


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ...but looking closely at the art work, they did clothe him in what appears to be a herringbone tweed weave...a good choice that resists wrinkling on a long air flight! However that illustration is really going to tighten Gloria Steinem's jaws. LOL, the title says it all,


Yes to your GS comment. Also, having just caught the tail-end of the period when smoking was still aloud on flights (albeit within the completely ineffective smoking section), nothing is worse than being stuck in a metal tube for hours with recirculating air when people are smoking (or coughing out Covid-19).


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## drpeter

The trouble with smoking is that the smell of stale tobacco gets into everything, including one's fine suits and shirts. I should know, I was a smoker for a while (cigarettes, cigars, a pipe, the works, but I quit 33 years ago and have never gone back). To this day, when I go to see a cigar-and-pipe-smoking friend in his little office behind an antique shop he owns, I have to take off and air the clothes I had been wearing after I get home!


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The trouble with smoking is that the smell of stale tobacco gets into everything, including one's fine suits and shirts. I should know, I was a smoker for a while (cigarettes, cigars, a pipe, the works, but I quit 33 years ago and have never gone back). To this day, when I go to see a cigar-and-pipe-smoking friend in his little office behind an antique shop he owns, I have to take off and air the clothes I had been wearing after I get home!


You are so right. I never smoked, but as noted, being born in '64, I caught the tail end of the smoker era. For about the first five years of work in the '80s ('till they finally passed no smoking laws at work), people were still allowed to smoke. It was disgusting, your clothes (and hair) always smelled at the end of the day and I was airing and dry-cleaning my work clothes all the time. And if you went to a bar, you basically smelled like a smoker until you showered and washed / dry-cleaned all your clothes.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Yes to your GS comment. Also, having just caught the tail-end of the period when smoking was still aloud on flights (albeit within the completely ineffective smoking section), nothing is worse than being stuck in a metal tube for hours with recirculating air when people are smoking (or coughing out Covid-19).


Ironically, having retired from the USAF, I think I accumulated more hours in the air, as a civilian 'air borne' road warrior than I did in military air frames. Even thought the airlines concentrated the smokers greerally in the rear section of the aircraft, and sometimes restricted the smoking to cigarettes only, it still polluted the entire aircraft, forcing all of us to inhale second hand smoke. Bleah!!! I consider it a blessing that I never contracted a litany of lung diseases associated with breathing all that second hand smoke!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Ironically, having retired from the USAF, I think I accumulated more hours in the air, as a civilian 'air borne' road warrior than I did in military air frames. Even thought the airlines concentrated the smokers greerally in the rear section of the aircraft, and sometimes restricted the smoking to cigarettes only, it still polluted the entire aircraft, forcing all of us to inhale second hand smoke. Bleah!!! I consider it a blessing that I never contracted a litany of lung diseases associated with breathing all that second hand smoke!


Possibly the stupidest concept ever was a "smoking section" on an airplane. Um, guys? Really?

The restaurant one wasn't that much better as I remember sitting in restaurants eating your meal with the smell of smoke wafting over - it was revolting.

The smoking "room" at work was a bit better as it, pretty much, kept the smoke in one room. Two things that were very noticeable about that though were how much someone smelled of smoke when they came out of that room and how disgusting that room got as the heavy concentration of smoking in it gave everything in the room a yellow tint along with the unbreathable air.

One thing we as a country got right in my lifetime was the complete change in attitudes, rules, laws and norms around smoking.


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## drpeter

When I lived in Amsterdam years ago, I would often go to cafes in the city which were several hundred years old. They were called _bruin_ cafes, because the walls were stained brown from all the smoking that went on for ages! Those places certainly had an atmosphere, with dark wood and a cozy ambience that the Dutch refer to as _gezelligheid. _Now all bars, restaurants and cafes in Amsterdam have a no-smoking policy.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50141


My vote would go to the Lady's "straw," but then, either of the straws worn by the men would look just as good, perched on our lady's head. The secret is in the presentation! LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> My vote would go to the Lady's "straw," but then, either of the straws worn by the men would look just as good, perched on our lady's head. The secret is in the presentation! LOL.


She also has an echo of actress Rosalind Russell to her.


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## Oldsarge

My head is the wrong shape for a boater so I'm with the guy on the right . . . and the lady, of course.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50168


A great illustration depicting the privileged life back in the good old days. I'll bet a snapshot of the same type of activity present day would picture participants dressed far more casually. The times they are a-changing and perhaps not for the better!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration depicting the privileged life back in the good old days. I'll bet a snapshot of the same type of activity present day would picture participants dressed far more casually. The times they are a-changing and perhaps not for the better!


In NYC, at what looks like a daytime informal party - say a Sunday brunch at someone's apartment or something like that - there would definitely not be one tie and probably not one sport coat (I'd want to wear one, but am trying hard not to be the guy always overdressed no matter how dressed down I think I am).

Also, almost everyone would have on jeans (maybe a few pairs of sweats and some women in yoga pants) and it would be a mix of collared shirts, T-shirts, casual sweaters and sweatshirts (a few sports team hoodies for sure). A few women would be dressed nice casual - an updated version of the woman sitting, but probably no men would be. Heck, my not-tailored-style chinos would be the nicest pair of pants of all the men.


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## fred johnson

I remember brunch in NYC back in the late 70's early 80's, always wore a jacket and tie; just the way it was...


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## Fading Fast

fred johnson said:


> I remember brunch in NYC back in the late 70's early 80's, always wore a jacket and tie; just the way it was...


Yup, in the '80s always, '90s less so, '00s disappearing, 2010 and on, gone.

The change that I've experienced since coming to NYC in the '80s has been dramatic.

In the late '80s, a friend asked me to come to her coop board meeting. All the men were in suits and ties or, maybe, some sport coats, dress pants and ties, but everyone was dressed up.

At our last coop board meeting early this year, maybe ten percent of the men had on a suit and tie as they appeared to come from work. Another, say 20%, like me had on a sport coat, collared shirt and nice trousers. The rest were jeans, sweats, t-shirts, hoodies, puffer jackets etc. I'd gladly have worn a suit and tie, but knew that my sport coat, etc., would still have me in the upper percentile of dress.


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## Fading Fast

Really cool illustration. You can just feel those big and heavy overcoats.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> In NYC, at what looks like a daytime informal party - say a Sunday brunch at someone's apartment or something like that - there would definitely not be one tie and probably not one sport coat (I'd want to wear one, but am trying hard not to be the guy always overdressed no matter how dressed down I think I am).
> 
> Also, almost everyone would have on jeans (maybe a few pairs of sweats and some women in yoga pants) and it would be a mix of collared shirts, T-shirts, casual sweaters and sweatshirts (a few sports team hoodies for sure). A few women would be dressed nice casual - an updated version of the woman sitting, but probably no men would be. Heck, my not-tailored-style chinos would be the nicest pair of pants of all the men.


Out here in the great Midwest, the standard uniform for most social occasions consists of jeans, plaid flannel shirt, and a baseball cap (also known as a "seed corn cap" to some). Anything else, like wearing a sports jacket, is considered being dressed up. There are smaller subgroups of people who might wear a jacket or tie on a social occasion, but they are decidedly a minority, and they tend to be older. Caps are also worn indoors -- the old practice of removing one's hat or cap when indoors is no longer in force.

Maybe they still garden wearing neckties in Britain, LOL. Then again, maybe not.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Out here in the great Midwest, the standard uniform for most social occasions consists of jeans, plaid flannel shirt, and a baseball cap (also known as a "seed corn cap" to some). Anything else, like wearing a sports jacket, is considered being dressed up. There are smaller subgroups of people who might wear a jacket or tie on a social occasion, but they are decidedly a minority, and they tend to be older. Caps are also worn indoors -- the old practice of removing one's hat or cap when indoors is no longer in force.
> 
> Maybe they still garden wearing neckties in Britain, LOL. Then again, maybe not.


Indoor-baseball-cap wearing is a thing here too. Today (well pre-pandemic), you regularly see men sitting in pretty nice restaurants wearing a baseball cap all through the meal.

I've kinda gotten used to seeing it, but it took a bit as, growing up, while I never wore a traditional hat, like most kids in the '70s, I wore a baseball cap and my dad made it very clear you didn't wear it inside.

Heck, as a fan of old movies, you learn that "gentlemen" take their hats off inside, especially if there is a "lady" present (although, this rule is broken often in old movies, but almost never at restaurants).


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## Fading Fast

You only get a snapshot of it, but the gentleman in the front left is all but wearing a Trad / Ivy uniform. Looks like a navy suit, white OCBD, red-and-navy rep tie, tan macintosh (or trench) and classic brown-leather briefcase. Can't get much more canonical than that.


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## drpeter

A general question about these beautiful adverts from the past: My impression is that one finds _drawn_ images in many more of the old ones than in contemporary magazines, which contain adverts with photographed images. Was there a slow move away from drawn images to photographed ones over time, perhaps as photography itself became more sophisticated? Was it perhaps the lower cost of reproducing photographic images, if indeed they cost less, compared to drawn images or artwork?

Perhaps this trend is something obvious, or else, perhaps I am off base entirely. But I have been looking through bound volumes of one influential magazine, _Esquire_, over the last year or two, and I have noticed far more of such drawn advertising images than in, say, a current edition of _GQ _or _Vanity Fair_ or even the Sunday _New York Times_ supplemental magazines on style or fashions that are put out from time to time. It seems a shame to have lost all those fine artistic drawings and images, which have an atmosphere, and consequently a _value_ about them that photographed images cannot match, IMHO.

As we move to newer ways of doing things, it is perhaps inevitable that we lose some of the old ways. But it is also appropriate, even exemplary, that in a forum that honours a traditional style of dressing and comportment, we have a thread that gives us these older images. I want to thank @Fading Fast for posting these regularly. I, for one, continue to enjoy them, even though I don't always comment on every one of them.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> A general question about these beautiful adverts from the past: My impression is that one finds _drawn_ images in many more of the old ones than in contemporary magazines, which contain adverts with photographed images. Was there a slow move away from drawn images to photographed ones over time, perhaps as photography itself became more sophisticated? Was it perhaps the lower cost of reproducing photographic images, if indeed they cost less, compared to drawn images or artwork?
> 
> Perhaps this trend is something obvious, or else, perhaps I am off base entirely. But I have been looking through bound volumes of one influential magazine, _Esquire _over the last year or two, and I have noticed far more of such drawn advertising images than in, say, a current edition of _GQ _or _Vanity Fair_ or even the Sunday _New York Times_ supplemental magazines on style or fashions that are put out from time to time. It seems a shame to have lost all those fine artistic drawings and images, which have an atmosphere, and consequently a _value_ about them that photographed images cannot match, IMHO.
> 
> As we move to newer ways of doing things, it is perhaps inevitable that we lose some of the old ways. But it is also appropriate, even exemplary, that in a forum that honours a traditional style of dressing and comportment, we have a thread that gives us these older images. I want to thank @Fading Fast for posting these regularly. I, for one, continue to enjoy them, even though I don't always comment on every one of them.


Thank you for your kind comments of support - they are very much appreciated.

Like you, my guess is that both the relative cost and convenience has shifted in favor of photography versus illustrations over the years. And, I agree, illustrations capture a vibe - a stylized representation of the past - that is a shame has faded in popularity.

I feel the same way about B&W movies. Color movies are great, but so are B&Ws where the director can use the "limitations" and style of B&W film to create dramatic moods and draw stark contrasts in a way that color doesn't. Film noir wouldn't be film noir without B&W photography. Yes, there have been color "noir" films, but IMHO, they don't quite feel right.

I'm not advocating at all for "going back," as, as noted, color movies and photographs are fantastic and bring their own advantages and style as a record and representation of things; I just wish we'd also keep doing illustrations and B&W films.

Tangentially related, there are no crisper and clearer (higher resolutions?) movies in the '50s ('40s and '30s too, but '50s B&W technology got even better) than the B&W ones. A well-preserved or restored B&W movie provides an incredible amount of minute detail that the color films from that era do not.

Sports is another field where illustrations played a much bigger part of storytelling in the past. In old newspapers, you regularly see illustrations of players and key plays. It's fantastic to see how illustrators represented these games and participants. Especially next to a black and white photo taken without the zoom lenses of today, oftentimes, the illustration was more informative.

As to these daily posts, I don't have a process other than Googling or looking at Pinterest for illustrations, but every time I think I'm running out, a little more searching produces a new vein of them and away we go. Thank you again for your comments, glad you are enjoying the illustrations.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Indoor-baseball-cap wearing is a thing here too. Today (well pre-pandemic), you regularly see men sitting in pretty nice restaurants wearing a baseball cap all through the meal.
> 
> I've kinda gotten used to seeing it, but it took a bit as, growing up, while I never wore a traditional hat, like most kids in the '70s, I wore a baseball cap and my dad made it very clear you didn't wear it inside.
> 
> Heck, as a fan of old movies, you learn that "gentlemen" take their hats off inside, especially if there is a "lady" presents (although, this rule is broken often in old movies, but almost never at restaurants).


LOL, it sounds like we were brought up in much the same way...when going indoors the hats came off! As one who doesn't seem to mix well with all this central Florida sunshine, I have from necessity formed an ongoing collaboration with a local dermatologist and have had several melanomas removed from my head neck and ears, as such became necessary and consequently wear hats or sometimes caps virtually every time we go out. As my Mama always taught us, "the hat comes off the minute you walk through the door" and it still, although somewhat inconvenient, seems the right thing to do. I really get a kick out of it on the rare occasion that a man sitting at a table sees me with my hat in hand and with some degree of embarrassment he removes his own hat. 

Kudos to your parents for bring you up well!


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## drpeter

Great comments. And you're very welcome.

Being a lover of cinema, I have taught film classes at my university in collaboration with a film professor friend for almost three decades now. We continue to teach a class to seniors as part of the University's programs for seniors in this town. On Wednesday, we had a Zoom discussion of our biweekly film, which we watch in our homes beforehand. This week, we discussed Vittorio de Sica's famous B&W classic _Bicycle_ _Thieves._ (See, we have culture here in the hinterland, LOL).

It's an amazing restoration by Criterion Collection. The boxed set has the film, a second disc with supplemental material and a gorgeous book with full essays on the film by Cesare Zavattini, the screenwriter for the film and by critics like Andre Bazin. Criterion (along with Kino in Germany) is the best source for B&W and colour films, their restorations are exemplary and peerless. I have almost 150 Criterion DVDs and Blu Rays in my film library -- I am a hopeless addict when it comes to books, films, clothes, etc.

Criterion also sends me $50 gift certificates now and then in appreciation of all the business I do with them. I have also picked up beautiful used copies of their films online, especially through second hand shops or through eBay.

I agree that B&W is a marvellous medium, and I share with you the concern that such films are not being produced very much these days. Two exceptions that come to mind, the first somewhat older: _Schindler's List_ and_ The Artist_ which won the Oscar for best picture a few years ago. Also, I have only seen the first two episodes of the Geman TV series, _Babylon Berlin_, the brilliant crime series set at the end of the Weimar period. (I don't get Netflix because it would be like giving booze to an alcoholic, I saw those at a friend's place). It uses faded out gritty colour and is perfectly noir in its sensibility and effect, although it is not B&W.

I have a 12-year-old Panasonic plasma screen which brings out blacks vividly. It is hooked up to a five- speaker French system by Focal and the whole thing is controlled by a Marantz receiver. I want to hang on to this TV as long as possible (In 2017, I had to find a new/old power supply for it) because plasma screens are no longer being made, as far as I know.

So yes, I share your sentiments about B&W films. Often an old B&W film on TCM on a Sunday morning or afternoon, is the best escape from the horrors of the current world.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you for your kind comments of support - they are very much appreciated.
> 
> Like you, my guess is that both the relative cost and convenience has shifted in favor of photography versus illustrations over the years. And, I agree, illustrations capture a vibe - a stylized representation of the past - that is a shame has faded in popularity.
> 
> I feel the same way about B&W movies. Color movies are great, but so are B&Ws where the director can use the "limitations" and style of B&W film to create dramatic moods and draw stark contrasts in a way that color doesn't. Film noir wouldn't be film noir without B&W photography. Yes, there have been color "noir" films, but IMHO, they don't quite feel right.
> 
> I'm not advocating at all for "going back," as, as noted, color movies and photographs are fantastic and bring their own advantages and style as a record and representation of things; I just wish we'd also keep doing illustrations and B&W films.
> 
> Tangentially related, there are no crisper and clearer (higher resolutions?) movies in the '50s ('40s and '30s too, but '50s B&W technology got even better) than the B&W ones. A well-preserved or restored B&W movie provides an incredible amount of minute detail that the color films from that era do not.
> 
> Sports is another field where illustrations played a much bigger part of storytelling in the past. In old newspapers, you regularly see illustrations of players and key plays. It's fantastic to see how illustrators represented these games and participants. Especially next to a black and white photo taken without the zoom lenses of today, oftentimes, the illustration was more informative.
> 
> As to these daily posts, I don't have a process other than Googling or looking at Pinterest for illustrations, but every time I think I'm running out, a little more searching produces a new vein of them and away we go. Thank you again for your comments, glad you are enjoying the illustrations.


This just occurred to me: One other place where we see illustrations is in depictions of court scenes where the judge has forbidden the use of film cameras or other digital recorders. These are drawn quickly and then filled out later by skilled artists who are experts at this sort of illustration. And I don't need to remind anyone that we have had quite a number of court scenes on display in recent years, with the proliferation of controversial trials of various players in the national scene, political and otherwise


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Great comments. And you're very welcome.
> 
> Being a lover of cinema, I have taught film classes at my university in collaboration with a film professor friend for almost three decades now. We continue to teach a class to seniors as part of the University's programs for seniors in this town. On Wednesday, we had a Zoom discussion of our biweekly film, which we watch in our homes beforehand. This week, we discussed Vittorio de Sica's famous B&W classic _Bicycle_ _Thieves._ (See, we have culture here in the hinterland, LOL).
> 
> It's an amazing restoration by Criterion Collection. The boxed set has the film, a second disc with supplemental material and a gorgeous book with full essays on the film by Cesare Zavattini, the screenwriter for the film and by critics like Andre Bazin. Criterion (along with Kino in Germany) is the best source for B&W and colour films, their restorations are exemplary and peerless. I have almost 150 Criterion DVDs and Blu Rays in my film library -- I am a hopeless addict when it comes to books, films, clothes, etc.
> 
> Criterion also sends me $50 gift certificates now and then in appreciation of all the business I do with them. I have also picked up beautiful used copies of their films online, especially through second hand shops or through eBay.
> 
> I agree that B&W is a marvellous medium, and I share with you the concern that such films are not being produced very much these days. Two exceptions that come to mind, the first somewhat older: _Schindler's List_ and_ The Artist_ which won the Oscar for best picture a few years ago. Also, I have only seen the first two episodes of the Geman TV series, Babylon Berlin, the brilliant crime series set at the end of the Weimar period. (I don't get Netflix because it would be like giving booze to an alcoholic, I saw those at a friend's place). It uses faded out gritty colour and is perfectly noir in its sensibility and effect, although it is not B&W.
> 
> I have a 12-year-old Panasonic plasma screen which brings out blacks vividly. It is hooked up to a five- speaker French system by Focal and the whole thing is controlled by a Marantz receiver. I want to hang on to this TV as long as possible (In 2017, I had to find a new/old power supply for it) because plasma screens are no longer being made, as far as I know.
> 
> So yes, I share your sentiments about B&W films. Often an old B&W film on TCM on a Sunday morning or afternoon, is the best escape from the horrors of the current world.


I agree with all this ⇧ and really smiled when you mentioned "Babylon Berlin," as you nailed the beautiful and noir-ish way it does color.

It is a perfect example of a modern production adapting color to a noir sensibility.

The show, beyond just the color, is so visually engaging - and the period details so wonderful - that we often have to stop and go back to read the subtitles as miss them because we get lost just watching it.

And while the story has gotten a bit more convoluted than necessary in the last season, it's still outstanding story telling with well-developed characters intelligently woven into the monumental history of the period. I'm sure you'll see the rest of it at some point.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I agree with all this ⇧ and really smiled when you mentioned "Babylon Berlin," as you nailed the beautiful and noir-ish way it does color.
> 
> It is a perfect example of a modern production adapting color to a noir sensibility.
> 
> The show, beyond just the color, is so visually engaging - and the period details so wonderful - that we often have to stop and go back to read the subtitles as miss them because we get lost just watching it.
> 
> And while the story has gotten a bit more convoluted than necessary in the last season, it's still outstanding story telling with well-developed characters intelligently woven into the monumental history of the period. I'm sure you'll see the rest of it at some point.


I am waiting for the entire BB series to be released as a fine boxed set of Blu Rays with all the supplements. At present it is only available in Europe and Britain, PAL versions. Not being sold here in the US. I would pay well over $100 (in fact, asking price) for such a set.

And I forgot one other notable noir film in colour: Roman Polanski's classic _Chinatown_. Another brilliant film.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> I agree with all this ⇧ and really smiled when you mentioned "Babylon Berlin," as you nailed the beautiful and noir-ish way it does color.
> 
> It is a perfect example of a modern production adapting color to a noir sensibility.
> 
> The show, beyond just the color, is so visually engaging - and the period details so wonderful - that we often have to stop and go back to read the subtitles as miss them because we get lost just watching it.
> 
> And while the story has gotten a bit more convoluted than necessary in the last season, it's still outstanding story telling with well-developed characters intelligently woven into the monumental history of the period. I'm sure you'll see the rest of it at some point.


My wife and I love Babylon Berlin. I find that we tend to re-watch episodes because we miss so much on the first viewing.


----------



## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> My wife and I love Babylon Berlin. I find that we tend to re-watch episodes because we miss so much on the first viewing.


Glad we are not alone. Heck, even the recaps they provide are confusing (and I miss some of their subtitles as well as I'm watching all the beautiful architecture, cars, clothes, etc. fly by).

The interior of the police station in the show is one of the most beautiful building interiors I've ever seen.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Glad we are not alone. Heck, even the recaps they provide are confusing (and I miss some of their subtitles as well as I'm watching all the beautiful architecture, cars, clothes, etc. fly by).
> 
> The interior of the police station in the show is one of the most beautiful building interiors I've ever seen.


Having visited Berlin a couple of years ago, it's interesting to see how much has changed.

Our tour group was scheduled to spend 2 days in Berlin but my wife and I rented a car to drive to the village that bears my family name. I'd like to go some day to see what we missed on the second day.


----------



## drpeter

You chaps are making me a little sad -- I have to go to a friend's house and camp out if I want to watch this show! And who can do that in the middle of Babylon Pandemic?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

I'm a little puzzled by the image here. Are the college men getting ready to play baseball wearing shirts and ties? The bats look appropriate but the ball seems far too large (or else the fellow holding the ball has very small hands!). And what is the woman doing with the broom and what looks like a sheet of paper cut off at one corner?

I didn't grow up playing baseball (cricket was my game). Hence perhaps my ignorance of the subtleties of baseball and its variations. But I have watched the game on TV and even watched one live in Milwaukee (Brewers vs Braves) ages ago. And I have not seen anything like this. Perhaps it is some sort of college prank.

I did try to read the text, but it's too small for my aging eyes -- and even with a magnifier, I could only get the general drift, which does not clarify anything about the image, other than the virtues of the white shirt.


----------



## FiscalDean

drpeter said:


> I'm a little puzzled by the image here. Are the college men getting ready to play baseball wearing shirts and ties? The bats look appropriate but the ball seems far too large (or else the fellow holding the ball has very small hands!). And what is the woman doing with the broom and what looks like a sheet of paper cut off at one corner?
> 
> I didn't grow up playing baseball (cricket was my game). Hence perhaps my ignorance of the subtleties of baseball and its variations. But I have watched the game on TV and even watched one live in Milwaukee (Brewers vs Braves) ages ago. And I have not seen anything like this. Perhaps it is some sort of college prank.
> 
> I did try to read the text, but it's too small for my aging eyes -- and even with a magnifier, I could only get the general drift, which does not clarify anything about the image, other than the virtues of the white shirt.


The size of the ball would suggest they're playing slow pitch softball. The ball used in slow pitch is much larger than the ball used in plain old softball. A normal ball would be 10 -12 inches in diameter while the slow pitch ball can be up to 16" in diameter. The rest of the ad is rather unusual. The lady with the "broom" must be the umpire, how they ever convinced a young lady in a skirt to umpire is beyond me (Is that the definition of easy? and is that why the caption refers to the lucky dogs? ) I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be playing any kind of ball in a white shirt and tie.

I'm with you on the aging eyes comment.


----------



## drpeter

Thanks very much indeed for the explanation, @FiscalDean . I had no idea there was a variation on softball, the slow pitch kind. I have seen softball played, but never with a larger ball. With a16" diameter, it is almost the size of a football (soccer) or a basketball. That ball could be quite dangerous if hit hard!

Maybe someone here will explain the lady with the broom and paper.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50242


Truth be known, I've never been able to cajole Mrs Eagle into whisking off home plate for me, but then I have also never played softball in a suit and tie! However, if I had, I'm sure it would have been in an Arrow shirt. Rumor has it that General Custer highly recommended them. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

There is a tradition at prep schools and the Ivies (this State-U kid has been told or seen) of boys playing pick-up games of touch football in their "regular" clothes, which usually meant khakis or grey flannels, OCBDs and Shetlands. Since, some prep schools have uniforms, the boys might just take off their blazers and play in their ties, flannels, OCBDs and weejuns or bucks. 

At least that's what I've learned based on images I've seen and reading about the "mystique" of it.

That said, I know of no tradition or famous pics, ect., of this happening with college kids and baseball. And nothing about that above illustration looks particularly authentic or inspiring.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> There is a tradition at prep schools and the Ivies (this State-U kid has been told or seen) of boys playing pick-up games of touch football in their "regular" clothes, which usually meant khakis or grey flannels, OCBDs and Shetlands. Since, some prep schools have uniforms, the boys might just take off their blazers and play in their ties, flannels, OCBDs and weejuns or bucks.


I can appreciate your comments about the Ivies, I was so far removed from that possibility. Heck, I was lucky to get into a state school.


----------



## eagle2250

FiscalDean said:


> I can appreciate your comments about the Ivies, I was so far removed from that possibility. Heck, I was lucky to get into a state school.


Yup....I can identify with that!


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## Oldsarge

From the view of the Left Coast, Ivy schools were something we sneered at for their (presumed) pretension. Whether they actually had such or not mattered not. They were 'over there' and we were cool and here. We didn't even have much truck for Stan-fud.


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## drpeter

What about the University of California system? They are state schools, not private or establishment, and some of them are truly world class (UC Berkeley, UCLA). And there's Cal Tech, certainly the equal of MIT, I think, although Cal Tech is private (and MIT as well).

My older brother worked for almost three decades in particle physics and cosmology at MIT, but he was never boastful about this, and laughed at academic snobbery and pretension. In the face of the complexity of the universe, he cultivated a humility that comes with research. 

And I feel the same about mind and brain, my own field of cognitive neuroscience. It is humbling and exciting to look at the most complex thing known to us, the human brain, and spend time studying it. Science is a love affair with Nature. To this day, at 70, I have trouble believing that folks actually paid me a salary to do something -- research and teaching -- that I so thoroughly enjoyed doing! All that fun, and money too. The opportunity to do these things -- that I will always be grateful for.


----------



## Fading Fast

A modern painting by artist Kai Carpenter with a vintage sensitivity.


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## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> What about the University of California system? They are state schools, not private or establishment, and some of them are truly world class (UC Berkeley, UCLA). And there's Cal Tech, certainly the equal of MIT, I think, although Cal Tech is private (and MIT as well).
> 
> My older brother worked for almost three decades in particle physics and cosmology at MIT, but he was never boastful about this, and laughed at academic snobbery and pretension. In the face of the complexity of the universe, he cultivated a humility that comes with research.
> 
> And I feel the same about mind and brain, my own field of cognitive neuroscience. It is humbling and exciting to look at the most complex thing known to us, the human brain, and spend time studying it. Science is a love affair with Nature. To this day, at 70, I have trouble believing that folks actually paid me a salary to do something -- research and teaching -- that I so thoroughly enjoyed doing! All that fun, and money too. The opportunity to do these things -- that I will always be grateful for.


In my long military career, I spent most of my years in Psychological Operations and I felt the same way. They actually _paid_ me to do this! It was a wonder.

And, yes, the UC is a grand institution. I graduated from what was, at the time, a tiny liberal arts campus. Today, Riverside is a major player with over 24,000 students and in a couple of fields (sub-tropical agriculture and entomology) unsurpassed by anyone anywhere. It even has a couple of Nobel winners on the faculty. I love that place.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> In my long military career, I spent most of my years in Psychological Operations and I felt the same way. They actually _paid_ me to do this! It was a wonder.
> 
> And, yes, the UC is a grand institution. I graduated from what was, at the time, a tiny liberal arts campus. Today, Riverside is a major player with over 24,000 students and in a couple of fields (sub-tropical agriculture and entomology) unsurpassed by anyone anywhere. It even has a couple of Nobel winners on the faculty. I love that place.


What a coincidence! I continue to do research collaboration with a junior colleague in the laboratory that I founded, and he is from Bakersfield, CA. He did his BS in cognitive science from UCLA, and his PhD in the same discipline from UC Riverside! Unfortunately, the Covid virus shut down our lab effectively. Psychology labs need human subjects to run experiments, unless, of course one is working with animals.


----------



## Oldsarge

It's a difficult time for all. But when this 'clears' I am thinking of a MFA from Portland State U. They have a program in 'Studio' that doesn't specify which medium you use. 'Innnnteresting' said the woodworker.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> It's a difficult time for all. But when this 'clears' I am thinking of a MFA from Portland State U. They have a program in 'Studio' that doesn't specify which medium you use. 'Innnnteresting' said the woodworker.


That sounds like a great plan. I have heard of MFAs in many areas-- fiction and poetry, painting, sculpture, photography, graphic arts, etc., Why not woodworking? Once you have an MFA, you could probably teach at a university or college, if you enjoy teaching. Good luck!


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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> That sounds like a great plan. I have heard of MFAs in many areas-- fiction and poetry, painting, sculpture, photography, graphic arts, etc., Why not woodworking? Once you have an MFA, you could probably teach at a university or college, if you enjoy teaching. Good luck!


Teaching was my other life outside the military. I have taught a graduate education class or three and enjoyed it greatly. However, having reached the age most professors go emeritus, a new position seems unlikely. But I'd take part time!


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

The red post box in the background reminds me of my old country! Nice suit too.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50333


That corduroy Eisenhower Jacket is an absolute winner. Wish they were still sold these days, but alas, they are not! Thanks for sharing this with us.


----------



## Oldsarge

The US Army is, I hear, bringing back the 'browns' and the Eisenhower jacket is supposed to be part of it. If this is true, I'm hustling down to the local Nat'l Guard Armory and hitting the uniform store!


----------



## drpeter

The Eisenhower jacket always reminds me of Trevor Howard's Major Calloway in the great classic film _The Third Man,_ screenplay, and the later novel, by one of my favourite novelists, Graham Greene. Here he is:


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> The US Army is, I hear, bringing back the 'browns' and the Eisenhower jacket is supposed to be part of it. If this is true, I'm hustling down to the local Nat'l Guard Armory and hitting the uniform store!


I have read that the old WWII era "US Army Pinks" will be back -- those wonderful khaki trousers that are a slight shade of pink. There is an outfit that sells them, but they are expensive. I remember discussing this on AAAC some time ago with other members.


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## Charles Dana

eagle2250 said:


> That corduroy Eisenhower Jacket is an absolute winner. Wish they were still sold these days, but alas, they are not! Thanks for sharing this with us.


A lot of fashions from the past are best left in the past. But often-especially in these wonderful vintage advertisements that Fading Fast shares with us (Thank you, FF!) -I'll see an item that hasn't been produced in well over 50 years but which I still covet. The corduroy Eisenhower jacket, for instance. The zip-front cardigan sweaters in Post #2481 that Eagle also praised. I'd settle for trim-fit, flat-front khaki trousers with at least a 12-inch rise.

And then I'll be tempted to send a letter to Ralph-along with a screen cap of the desired garment-saying something like, "For the love of God, please make this!"

But were I to do that, I'm sure I'd get a polite non-response. "Thank you for your suggestion. We have forwarded it to Blah Blah Blah...."


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> A lot of fashions from the past are best left in the past. But often-especially in these wonderful vintage advertisements that Fading Fast shares with us (Thank you, FF!) -I'll see an item that hasn't been produced in well over 50 years but which I still covet. The corduroy Eisenhower jacket, for instance. The zip-front cardigan sweaters in Post #2481 that Eagle also praised. I'd settle for trim-fit, flat-front khaki trousers with at least a 12-inch rise.
> 
> And then I'll be tempted to send a letter to Ralph-along with a screen cap of the desired garment-saying something like, "For the love of God, please make this!"
> 
> But were I to do that, I'm sure I'd get a polite non-response. "Thank you for your suggestion. We have forwarded it to Blah Blah Blah...."


I agree with all this and thank you for the note of appreciation. I've only been paying it forward to your outstanding work on the Khaki History thread.

That Ike corduroy jacket is outstanding. I'd like one of those.

And there is a small chance it pops up as Ralph's team does go through old design books, etc. for ideas.


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## Charles Dana

drpeter said:


> Maybe someone here will explain the lady with the broom and paper.


That isn't a sheet of paper; it's home plate. Made of rubber, it's the one base in the game that is shaped like an irregular pentagon. In the ad, the broom's bristles are obscuring one of the plate's five sides.


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## drpeter

Ah, I see now! As I said, I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to baseball. Now, I could explain the mechanics of an inswinging yorker to you, but that's a different game, LOL.


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## Charles Dana

drpeter said:


> I could explain the mechanics of an inswinging yorker to you


You could, but only in the dark web.


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## drpeter

Another famous image from another of my favourite WWII films. Major John Reisman in _The Dirty Dozen_. Lee Marvin, who plays Maj Reisman, is in a specially made jacket and US Army "Pinks". I think this is where Reisman confronts the top brass (Ernest Borgnine et al) and puts up his dirty dozen against any group of Colonel Breeding's men (Robert Ryan). Lee Marvin actually served in WWII.








'

You can buy the very jacket Marvin wore in the film for GBP 8495

The clip:






And here he is in an Ike jacket (at least it looks like one):


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

⇧ Interesting, no love for the main the classic pinstripe suit.

Okay, so we'll go in a different direction today with Slammin' Sammy


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Interesting, no love for the main the classic pinstripe suit.
> 
> Okay, so we'll go in a different direction today with Slammin' Sammy
> View attachment 50398


A great illustration, with much to tell us for sure...Slammin' Sammy Snead, a Navy McGregor Drizzler, a pictorial golf lesson, and an entry form for the "Drizzler Driving Contest! I feel like we just won the lotto. LOL.


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## Fading Fast

Modern from illustrator Akira Sorimachi:


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## drpeter

A great artist! Excellent find, FF. There's a beautiful collection of Sorimachi drawings put together by Ivy Style. The link is below. A surfeit of pleasures!

https://www.ivy-style.com/proboscis-profiles-the-art-of-akira-sorimachi.html


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> A great artist! Excellent find, FF. There's a beautiful collection of Sorimachi drawings put together by Ivy Style. The link is below. A surfeit of pleasures!
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/proboscis-profiles-the-art-of-akira-sorimachi.html


That's a great selection and there are even more just Googling his name. Going forward, I'll sprinkle some in from time to time in this thread.


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## Fading Fast

Yes, it's a men's forum, but it's just such a nice illustration that I had to post it (and I love the well-tailored simplicity of her outfit):









So, to balance things out, here's a neat men's one as well:


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast




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## xcubbies

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50503


When do you leave?


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## Fading Fast

xcubbies said:


> When do you leave?


I wish, right now I'd settle for not being locked in my apartment. 

Isn't that a beautiful illustration? I love how the artist captured the outfits with so few details. The use of shading for movement and folds is incredible.


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## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50503


One of my favorite posters about one of my favorite destinations.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50582


Your illustration incites me to think of a young Clark Kent checking his watch and wondering if the ever so lovely Lois Lane, approaching from behind, has just seem him dropping off his equally lovely "side piece' a the competing newspaper of the Daily Planet, at which she works! I fear Clark Kent is in for a beat down. LOL.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50503


Here's what I think the stops on the route might be (the start of the journey is outside the map, but I believe it is Cairo):

Cairo, Khartoum, Addis Ababa, Kampala, Nairobi, Blantyre, Harare, Pretoria, and Cape Town.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Is that the crowd cheering the Dodgers, as they were winning the World Series a couple of nights ago?


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50610


A grand illustration, depicting a classic, but also fading memory of an overflowing crowd at college football game. I must tell you, it is comforting to know that the young man wearing the Harvard feather in his cap, has his priorities straight...ya gotta feed the machine and then ya watch football!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Is that the crowd cheering the Dodgers, as they were winning the World Series a couple of nights ago?


Sadly no because there's not enough social distancing. 



eagle2250 said:


> A grand illustration, depicting a classic, but also fading memory of an overflowing crowd at college football game. I must tell you, it is comforting to know that the young man wearing the Harvard feather in his cap, has his priorities straight...ya gotta feed the machine and then ya watch football!


He also has good tastes in outerwear, as I believe he's wearing a Polo coat.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

I wonder if Surimachi was referring to the character in the classic film played by Gregory Peck. Maybe he could not use the full title, _The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit_ because of copyright reasons.

My ideal suit has long been a basic Oxford grey flannel model, with medium weight cloth. No patterns, just the basic nicely mottled flannel. Three button closure, medium lapels, hook vent or two side vents, cuffed trousers, plain front or forward pleats. This suit will do for all but the most formal occasions, and for those, there's always a dinner jacket.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I wonder if Surimachi was referring to the character in the classic film played by Gregory Peck. Maybe he could not use the full title, _The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit_ because of copyright reasons.
> 
> My ideal suit has long been a basic Oxford grey flannel model, with medium weight cloth. No patterns, just the basic nicely mottled flannel. Three button closure, medium lapels, hook vent or two side vents, cuffed trousers, plain front or forward pleats. This suit will do for all but the most formal occasions, and for those, there's always a dinner jacket.


Now, in my fifties, and having owned a closet full of suits since my twenties, I can proudly say that every suit I own today is a shade of grey (except for one very old near-navy one that I haven't worn in, probably, a decade).

Over the years, I lost interest in having a lot of different-colored suits as I found I liked grey's simple, classic and (depending on shade and texture) always appropriate look the most.

It also allowed me to focus on better quality, but not more, supporting items - shirts, shoes, ties, belts, sweaters, etc. I upgraded those overtime, but have less of them than before because they are all oriented to working with a grey suit.

As mentioned in past posts, a fire in our apartment building's basement, while we were renovating our apartment - and storing most of our clothes down there - seriously reduced my wardrobe. That happened six-plus years ago, which was two years after I had already started working from home full time.

And since I work from home, combined with the general movement at work and in our culture overall to casual attire, I only replaced a very small number of the items that were lost. Hence, my business wardrobe is incomplete for a five-day-a-week suit-wearing life, but is more than enough for our business-and-life-casual-dress world.

I wish I had a need to buy a full suit wardrobe again as I would focus on making it a really well-done grey-suit-centric one. With what I've learned over the years and, now, at AAAC, I feel I could make it a killer. But alas, I type this in my usual WFH wardrobe of old chinos, an old T-shirt and an old sweatshirt with Smartwool socks and no shoes.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Now, in my fifties, and having owned a closet full of suits since my twenties, I can proudly say that every suit I own today is a shade of grey (except for one very old near-navy one that I haven't worn in, probably, a decade).
> 
> Over the years, I lost interest in having a lot of different-colored suits as I found I liked grey's simple, classic and (depending on shade and texture) always appropriate look the most.
> 
> It also allowed me to focus on better quality, but not more, supporting items - shirts, shoes, ties, belts, sweaters, etc. I upgraded those overtime, but have less of them than before because they are all oriented to working with a grey suit.
> 
> As mentioned in past posts, a fire in our apartment building's basement, while we were renovating our apartment - and storing most of our clothes down there - seriously reduced my wardrobe. That happened six-plus years ago, which was two years after I had already started working from home full time.
> 
> And since I work from home, combined with the general movement at work and in our culture overall to casual attire, I only replaced a very small number of the items that were lost. Hence, my business wardrobe is incomplete for a five-day-a-week suit-wearing life, but is more than enough for our business-and-life-casual-dress world.
> 
> I wish I had a need to buy a full suit wardrobe again as I would focus on making it a really well-done grey-suit-centric one. With what I've learned over the years and, now, at AAAC, I feel I could make it a killer. But alas, I type this in my usual WFH wardrobe of old chinos, an old T-shirt and an old sweatshirt with Smartwool socks and no shoes.


Take heart...comfort is the rule of the day! You are looking good.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

It is interesting to note that, in the fifties and sixties, there wasn't much antipathy toward nylon or polyester. In many of these older adverts, the makers of the clothes seem to sing the merits of 100% dacron and trevira and orlon and other variants of these artificial fibres, along with earlier versions like nylon or acrylic, perhaps made through somewhat different processes (I think that was the case, I am no chemist).

So maybe it took some time and experience with these materials to realize that they were not quite as good as natural fibres -- breathability, comfort, aesthetics and so on. Then, of course, they started blending them with natural fibres in different proportions, and that was much better in terms of looks and comfort. 

When I was living in India, the overwhelmingly common choice of fabric for shirts and trousers was either terycotton or terywool, a mixture of terylene with those natural fibres. Resistance to wrinkles was the main advantage cited by most people in selecting these types of cloth for their shirts and trousers. I have no idea what the fashion is now for materials. There is widespread use of ready-made clothing for everyday use. People still use tailors to get suits made, I think.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50722


As you post each of those fantastic McGregor illustrations, I find myself struggling with a growing urge to go out and buy a McGregor jacket, particularly when staring back at the fellow in this ad, giving us that decidedly compelling look! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

LOL, I could not resist the urge: While thrifting, I recently picked up two McGregor summer ties, 100% cotton, with paintbrush patterns, for about $2.00 each. The patterns were unusual for me, I usually pick very traditional ones like reps and neats. I think these adverts that FF posts are continuing to do their job.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> It is interesting to note that, in the fifties and sixties, there wasn't much antipathy toward nylon or polyester. In many of these older adverts, the makers of the clothes seem to sing the merits of 100% dacron and trevira and orlon and other variants of these artificial fibres, along with earlier versions like nylon or acrylic, perhaps made through somewhat different processes (I think that was the case, I am no chemist).
> 
> So maybe it took some time and experience with these materials to realize that they were not quite as good as natural fibres -- breathability, comfort, aesthetics and so on. Then, of course, they started blending them with natural fibres in different proportions, and that was much better in terms of looks and comfort.
> 
> When I was living in India, the overwhelmingly common choice of fabric for shirts and trousers was either terycotton or terywool, a mixture of terylene with those natural fibres. Resistance to wrinkles was the main advantage cited by most people in selecting these types of cloth for their shirts and trousers. I have no idea what the fashion is now for materials. There is widespread use of ready-made clothing for everyday use. People still use tailors to get suits made, I think.


I think you are spot on.

Originally (going back to the '30s based on the ads I've seen), man-made fibers were proudly advertised for qualities such as "wrinkle resistance" or "lighter weight." And blending with natural fibers does help a lot. Those "Poplin" summer suits we Trads like were sometimes blends and they were fine (although, to me, the all-cotton ones "felt" better).

In the '70s, when I was a kid, "polyester" was viewed as cheap. For the next two decades, man-made fibers had a taint. But then, about 20 years ago, they started improving, I guess, especially for gym clothes and have made a comeback. Obviously, I'm oversimplifying, but you get the idea: even in my lifetime, the view of man-made fibers has changed a lot.


----------



## Oldsarge

I received a polyester 'leisure suit' one Christmas. I took it back before even unwrapping it.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50780


Great illustration and the message continues to hold true: Responsible young leaders are the last and best hope for our future. Seems to have even added meaning this AM!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50798


Perfect timing! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Perfect timing! LOL.


Been saving it for about a month.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I lament the fact that there are few camp collar shirts to be found, at least for men. We had these when I was growing up, they were usually shirts with square tails that were worn outside the pants, never tucked in. They were made up from thin cotton cloth and featured two pockets (no flaps), pretty much like the ones shown in this picture. They were perfect for warm climates, and the collar stayed flat and neat. We called them Manila shirts (maybe they were popular in that city). 

In the West, we have a very similar shirt, originating in Cuba, and popular in other countries in Central and South America: The familiar Guayabera shirt. It often has some decorative work on the front. It is mostly informal but I think there are formal occasions on which it can be worn.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50938


I love the illustration and McGregor as a Brand is an old acquaintance of mine and so many others, but a white garment is so easily soiled, I fear the "White Heat" advertised would son become 'Grey Clouds' through our use of same.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I love the illustration and McGregor as a Brand is an old acquaintance of mine and so many others, but a white garment is so easily soiled, I fear the "White Heat" advertised would son become 'Grey Clouds' through our use of same.


The only white items I have are polo shirts and they take extra work to keep looking white (thank you, Oxiclean). I can't image a white jacket or, as I see people wear, white jeans or pants.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50974


The past, meeting our present: "Its a man; It's a plane! No it's just another one of those damned drones!" LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50994


A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I owned/wore that jacket...or at least a very similar one!


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I owned/wore that jacket...or at least a very similar one!


And did you forget the person who gave you that jacket in ancient times? The advert suggests otherwise.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I owned/wore that jacket...or at least a very similar one!


I did at some point too. Versions of it are still around.

It seems like a civilian take on the MA-1 Flight Jacket. 









Bonobos offers this one today:
https://bonobos.com/products/the-boulevard-bomber?color=burgundy


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Three button tan suit -- very elegant.


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51109


I had no idea that Speedo brand even existed that far back. Both designs pictured are handsome garments, but my personal preference would be for the zippered cardigan with the raglan sleeves. It looks to be every bit as comfortable as one of my old, well worn sweatshirts!


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## Fading Fast

Initially, I wasn't going to post this illustration, but then, when I looked at the men in the background, I realized there was some cool stuff going on. The guy on the ground looks like he stepped out of the pages of "Apparel Arts," while the guy on the steps looks like he has on a classic raincoat (of which you don't see too many today).


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51240


The brand name alone should have sold a lot of those shirts. I could see myself wearing the grey plaid and the burgundy shirts, even now, but not with that top collar button buttoned. Today's illustration has me reflecting on the good old days, when I used to take multi day canoe trips down the AuSable River from Grayling, MI, to Oscoda, MI, camping along the river and cooking the morning's catch over an open fire (or if the fish were not biting that day, tearing open an MRE) and chowing down! Those were truly the days of wine and roses.


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## drpeter

I used to live in Michigan -- East Lansing, actually, post-docing at Michigan State University. It's a lovely part of the country, we went hiking in various places. And summer and fall weekends were spent at a friend's cottage at Half Moon Lake, not too far from Ann Arbor.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51262


Real style is said to be timeless, while fashion is passing. The garments pictured in that wonderful illustration could easily and seamlessly worked into today's wardrobes. Proof positive that we are being treated to a glimpse into McGregor Style!


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## Fading Fast

Staying with McGregor for another day for my friend @eagle2250 








1960.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with McGregor for another day for my friend @eagle2250
> View attachment 51286
> 
> 1960.


LOL, I appreciate thae thought. While I've worn a fair number of McGregors designs in the past, I cannot recall ever wearing one of their sport coats. Indeed, I was blissfully ignorant of their existence, prior to reading your post.


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## drpeter

If the advert is using "cheques" to indicate the pattern in cloth we usually refer to as checks, it is quite likely incorrect usage. On the other hand, it could be some sort of pun. I can't quite see the detail on the jacket, maybe Fading Fast can help.

The term _cheque_ is used exclusively to indicate that piece of paper you write out so that the bank can give you (or the person or business to whom you write the cheque) the specified amount from your bank account. What we call plaid patterns on cloth would be check patterns in Britain, as would the other meanings of that word, with one exception: checking a box to indicate that some condition has been met would be _ticking_ the box, a check mark being a tick mark.

Language is so interesting (and often, so funny), especially when we consider a language like English, which is in use all over the world, and has developed by borrowing words and phrases from all over the world. It is truly a world language, not just England's language.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL, I appreciate thae thought. While I've worn a fair number of McGregors designs in the past, I cannot recall ever wearing one of their sport coats. Indeed, I was blissfully ignorant of their existence, prior to reading your post.


As was I. There are so many things that are like that - little things that happened in the history of a company that were there for a short period of time and, then, gone.

When I was a college kid in the '80s, the Au Bon Pain near the store I worked in came out with a Napoleon that was incredible. It was there for, maybe a year or so, and then gone.

When I asked what happened, they said it was complicated to make and store and not worth the limited demand they had for it. That was thirty five years ago. I'd bet almost no one but I - and a few other crazy fans of Au Bon Pain's brief flirtation with the Napoleon - even remember it once made one.


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## Fading Fast

Another McGregor


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Another McGregor
> View attachment 51337


Deja' vue? The McGregor windbreakers I had were blue and a rusty tan hue, much like the sport coat pictured. Wish I still had those jackets, but I doubt they would fit my newly acquired girth!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Deja' vue? The McGregor windbreakers I had were blue and a rusty tan hue, much like the sport coat pictured. Wish I still had those jackets, but I doubt they would fit my newly acquired girth!


Somewhere in my 20s, I'm pretty sure I, too, owned a McGregor windbreaker -mine was in navy .


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> As was I. There are so many things that are like that - little things that happened in the history of a company that were there for a short period of time and, then, gone.
> 
> When I was a college kid in the '80s, the Au Bon Pain near the store I worked in came out with a Napoleon that was incredible. It was there for, maybe a year or so, and then gone.
> 
> When I asked what happened, they said it was complicated to make and store and not worth the limited demand they had for it. That was thirty five years ago. I'd bet almost no one but I - and a few other crazy fans of Au Bon Pain's brief flirtation with the Napoleon - even remember it once made one.


Napoleon or _mille-feuille_, or other versions of the dessert is time-consuming if you create the puff pastry sheets from scratch. And Au Bon Pain probably did that. If you buy the sheets, however, then it is simply a question of mixing the paste (almond-paste or other similar stuff) and spreading it between the layers of puff pastry before baking.

I've been promising myself that I will try my hand at making a _tarte tatin_ from scratch (basically an apple pie with pastry layers) but it is time consuming, since one has to repeatedly fold and roll out the dough each day for something like fourteen days to create the layers! Oh well, maybe next year.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Napoleon or _mille-feuille_, or other versions of the dessert is time-consuming if you create the puff pastry sheets from scratch. And Au Bon Pain probably did that. If you buy the sheets, however, then it is simply a question of mixing the paste (almond-paste or other similar stuff) and spreading it between the layers of puff pastry before baking.
> 
> I've been promising myself that I will try my hand at making a _tarte tatin_ from scratch (basically an apple pie with pastry layers) but it is time consuming, since one has to repeatedly fold and roll out the dough each day for something like fourteen days to create the layers! Oh well, maybe next year.


I only know what you explained because my girlfriend is an incredible baker. I've learned a lot from watching her and talking with her about it. I have no skills of my own - I can boil a mean pot of water and that's about it - but have a bunch of second-hand knowledge that makes me sound as if I know what I'm talking about (but I really don't).

I'd bet you are spot on re ABP as a Napoleon is labor intensive if done all in house. The other thing, and the guy I spoke to back then said it, was it didn't stay fresh for long. As you and I know, the cream by the next day has usually made the pastry soggy.

You _tarte tatin_ sounds outstanding. I know my girlfriend has be "perfecting" her pie crust skills for years. And while they were always good, she's now at, IMHO anyway, professional-baker level. My guess, knowing your overall talents and thoughtful approach to things, you are probably a professional-level baker yourself.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I only know what you explained because my girlfriend is an incredible baker. I've learned a lot from watching her and talking with her about it. I have no skills of my own - I can boil a mean pot of water and that's about it - but have a bunch of second-hand knowledge that makes me sound as if I know what I'm talking about (but I really don't).
> 
> I'd bet you are spot on re ABP as a Napoleon is labor intensive if done all in house. The other thing, and the guy I spoke to back then said it, was it didn't stay fresh for long. As you and I know, the cream by the next day has usually made the pastry soggy.
> 
> You _tarte tatin_ sounds outstanding. I know my girlfriend has be "perfecting" her pie crust skills for years. And while they were always good, she's now at, IMHO anyway, professional-baker level. My guess, knowing your overall talents and thoughtful approach to things, you are probably a professional-level baker yourself.


Thanks for your frank response to my thoughts about Napoleons. I learned how to cook out of necessity, when I found myself half-way around the world from home, and alone. In order to eat well, I had to learn, and I picked up the basic elements from some friends who were fine cooks themselves. I make food in both Indian and Western traditions, as well as some Middle Eastern and North African ones. In the last two decades, I have been making food that is often a synthesis or fusion of different culinary traditions (Cajun and Indian, for instance).

The best thing about cooking is that I can do most of it free-hand, without exact quantities of things as specified in recipes. You develop a feel for it, for texture and flavour. I have more than a hundred cookbooks, and I love reading them, but rarely cook from them!

Thank you for your kind words. As for baking, I must say, I am in no way a professional-level baker. I can make some desserts very well, my main ones being a New York style cheesecake and a classic carrot cake -- both favourites of mine. With baking, one has to be exact in terms of quantities, or else the cake will not work out, and the bread will not rise!

Some years ago, I cooked lovely meals for a young girlfriend, who was so enthused about my meals that she decided to become a cook -- now that's a nice compliment. She went to the San Francisco Culinary Academy (I visited her there and she bought me a wonderful Wusthof Trident chef's knife) and eventually specialized in pastry making. She was a pastry chef at the Four Seasons Hotel in Boston for a while, now does private catering in Louisville.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Thanks for your frank response to my thoughts about Napoleons. I learned how to cook out of necessity, when I found myself half-way around the world from home, and alone. In order to eat well, I had to learn, and I picked up the basic elements from some friends who were fine cooks themselves. I make food in both Indian and Western traditions, as well as some Middle Eastern and North African ones. In the last two decades, I have been making food that is often a synthesis or fusion of different culinary traditions (Cajun and Indian, for instance).
> 
> The best thing about cooking is that I can do most of it free-hand, without exact quantities of things as specified in recipes. You develop a feel for it, for texture and flavour. I have more than a hundred cookbooks, and I love reading them, but rarely cook from them!
> 
> Thank you for your kind words. As for baking, I must say, I am in no way a professional-level baker. I can make some desserts very well, my main ones being a New York style cheesecake and a classic carrot cake -- both favourites of mine. With baking, one has to be exact in terms of quantities, or else the cake will not work out, and the bread will not rise!
> 
> Some years ago, I cooked lovely meals for a young girlfriend, who was so enthused about my meals that she decided to become a cook -- now that's a nice compliment. She went to the San Francisco Culinary Academy (I visited her there and she bought me a wonderful Wusthof Trident chef's knife) and eventually specialized in pastry making. She was a pastry chef at the Four Seasons Hotel in Boston for a while, now does private catering in Louisville.


Quite a journey you've had and what a fun story about your friend. I lived in Boston for eight years and am familiar with its Four Seasons (although, truth be told, my favorite hotel in Boston is the Ritz ⇨ the Raj ⇨ Newbury Boston). She must be very talented as that is not an easy position to obtain.


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## drpeter

Yes, she is a very talented pastry chef. She came to my flat on a visit when she was in SF and made me an Italian dessert -- _panna cotta_, very rich and delicious. She also made a huge mess in my kitchen, but that's OK, I cleaned up, LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51378


While I cannot claim any prior familiarity with the brand, the trousers pictured above are rather nicely designed, but more importantly the picture incited memories of my teenage years during which I designed and built myself a gas engine powered model airplane. I flew, crashed and repaired that aerospace world of wonders machine more times than I ever bothered to count, but eventually it was beyond any additional repairs and I was forced to retire it to my very own aircraft graveyard, in our basement! That experience would advise any reasonably intelligent young man against pursuing a career in the USAF, but alas, I am a slow learner and it took me an entire career to figure that out for myself. Even then it took the powers that be sending me a letter advising that mine was(apologies to Cormac McCarthy) "no career for old men,"...bye, bye sunshine! LOL.


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## drpeter

Bravo, Eagle! Never thought I would see Cormac McCarthy and the USAF invoked in the same breath, so to speak.

McCarthy has actually reinvented the English language, some of it a created language of his own. There is a description of the past, the old Comanche road, in the first few pages of _All the Pretty Horses _(part of the wonderful Border Trilogy) where McCarthy writes about the past of a particular region, and of the native Americans who came before the white man, that is absolutely spell-binding and evocative, and in a language and style that is novel and extraordinary.

Of course, "no country for old men" is itself a borrowing from the first line of WB Yeats' famous poem _Sailing to Byzantium_, which has generated at least two titles for novels and been more often quoted than many poems in the English language. Along with that other great poem of Yeats', _The Second Coming_, of course.

I wonder if Yeats was ever a fashionable poet among the Trads. I would certainly consider him worthy of being included in any canon of English literature.


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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge

I have a CIA trained niece (newly pregnant) who is a pastry chef in the Boston area. She's married to a sous chef and they just bought a house. I consider that quite an accomplishment given the current economy. As to baking, I make all my own bread, biscuits, pancakes and waffles and that's about it. Everyone in my family can make a wonderfully flaky piecrust except me. It's a blot on my existence, I tell you. I so love fruit pies and I grow berries in absurd quantaties but can't make a decent pie to save my neck. Thank heaven for rolled up pie crusts in the refrigerator compartment!


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51440


How timely!

A few days ago, on the Blues and Brags thread, I had posted a thrifted navy blue overcoat which was very similar -- Botany 500, Tailored by Daroff. I had also posted some information on the Daroff company there. This coat pictured here has rather wide lapels compared to mine, but otherwise it looks quite similar.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51474


Hart, Schaffner & Marx, a staple of my early business wardrobe! Several of their wonderful garments continue to hang in my closet to this day. Old friends seem to be forever.


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## drpeter

Same here. I have several jackets and overcoats by HS&M. Solid construction, superb materials, and they last forever.


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## ran23

As soon as the mail gets here, I will have my first Hart, Schaffner & Marx flannels.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

Not an illustration, but still feels consistent with our overall theme here.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Not an illustration, but still feels consistent with our overall theme here.
> View attachment 51518


I'll take that "wool and nylon Shirt Jac design...very similar to Pendleton's "Topster" design. I've got a similar jacket hidden away somewhere in the hoard (Though it is a darker hued plaid). Should I be able to lay hands on the beast, I will post a picture of Pendleton's more recent work.


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast

Happy Thanksgiving.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Happy Thanksgiving.
> View attachment 51557
> 
> View attachment 51554
> 
> 
> View attachment 51553
> View attachment 51555
> View attachment 51556


A truly entertaining assemblage of Thanksgiving Holiday illustrations and given the football game playing on TV in the first illustration, these just have to be illustrations of holiday celebrations, in the pre-pandemic eras!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A truly entertaining assemblage of Thanksgiving Holiday illustrations and given the football game playing on TV in the first illustration, these just have to be illustrations of holiday celebrations, in the pre-pandemic eras!


The top one was my favorite. My dad was a gambler and bookmaker (all done quietly - not the way it's portrayed in movies) and we often had a small B&W TV with rabbit ears sitting on a chair in the corner of the dinning room at Christmas. It was that or wait until both games were over and no one wanted to wait till after 7pm to eat. My take on Tolstoy: every crazy family is crazy in its own way.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I just love dove grey summer-weight poplin slacks. They pair well with navy blue shirts or sweaters, or with a navy blue blazer. And a crisp white shirt is simply terrific with the light grey colour of the slacks. IMHO, they are almost as versatile as beige or khaki trousers.


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## Fading Fast

It's after Thanksgiving, so sprinkling in some Christmas illustrations is allowed.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> It's after Thanksgiving, so sprinkling in some Christmas illustrations is allowed.
> View attachment 51588


That particular Pendleton plaid does have a rather Christmas like look to it!


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

Okay, so no love for the first Christmas illustration ⇧.

I'm going to try a Christmas one again, but this time with more trad clothing to see:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51626


Looks like a classic card stock photo, but I must ask, is the lady wearing (what appears to be) thigh high leather boots? Did such footwear even exist back in the day? Bye golly, with that coat, she could be the fabled Mrs Santa Clause...yes, no?


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Looks like a classic card stock photo, but I must ask, is the lady wearing (what appears to be) thigh high leather boots? Did such footwear even exist back in the day? Bye golly, with that coat, she could be the fabled Mrs Santa Clause...yes, no?


I don't know when thigh-high leather boots for women came into being, but just a guess, they might be knee-length snow / rain boots that just look higher owing to the way the artist drew them. I remember girls in college in the '80s having some sorta of faux-leather rain boot that looked like those.


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## drpeter

There was a time during the late seventies, when knee-length leather boots became a very fashionable item for women. Most women had a pair and they combined well with skirts. Protection from the cold in winter was also an added benefit. In dark brown and burgundy, especially, they looked quite elegant. And then, like many fashions, they faded away. One does not see these boots very much anymore.

I've never noticed large numbers of women wearing thigh-high boots, though. How comfortable could they be? How would one sit down if one was wearing these boots? Maybe the leather was extremely soft and supple and would permit the bending required.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> There was a time during the late seventies, when knee-length leather boots became a very fashionable item for women. Most women had a pair and they combined well with skirts. Protection from the cold in winter was also an added benefit. In dark brown and burgundy, especially, they looked quite elegant. And then, like many fashions, they faded away. One does not see these boots very much anymore.
> 
> I've never noticed large numbers of women wearing thigh-high boots, though. How comfortable could they be? How would one sit down if one was wearing these boots? Maybe the leather was extremely soft and supple and would permit the bending required.


The thigh-high boot was heavily in vogue in NYC about ten years ago. And you are spot on, they look a bit awkward when the wearer sits, but they are a definitely "notice me" boot on a tall, thin woman strutting across a room. I still see them occasionally, but their moment has passed.

And, like you, I remember that '70s knee-length-boot-with-skirt look. Very dated today, but it was a thing then. As noted, in the early '80s, the girls at Rutgers wore faux leather ones - no-one going to Rutgers could afford a knee-length real-leather boot. I remember a flaxen-haired girl in Cost Accounting wearing a pair - yes, I did ask her out and, surprisingly, she said yes. Once in awhile, the home team has a good day.


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## Oldsarge

Every winter knee boots, ski/yoga pants and longish sweaters come back. I don't know if they are _la mode_ or not but I certainly appreciate them.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I wouldn't dream of wearing one of these sweaters. I am nowhere near Nordic enough. Aeons ago, when I had chemotherapy, the nurses promised me that once the treatment was over, I would get blond hair and blue eyes. Sad to say, it did not work out. Now I have no hair and the same old brown eyes. Plus a mostly white beard, of course, well past the salt-and-pepper stage. This is what the Buddhists call _samsara_, LOL.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I wouldn't dream of wearing one of these sweaters. I am nowhere near Nordic enough. Aeons ago, when I had chemotherapy, the nurses promised me that once the treatment was over, I would get blond hair and blue eyes. Sad to say, it did not work out. Now I have no hair and the same old brown eyes. Plus a mostly white beard, of course, well past the salt-and-pepper stage. This is what the Buddhists call _samsara_, LOL.


I'm sorry you went through that, but glad you are with us today.


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## drpeter

Thanks, Fades, I am glad I am still around too, though judging by the way the world is going, I am glad I have lived most of my years on this planet! Time for the next planet, I imagine.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51738


Levi's have been a component of the master's closet in the eagles roost for as many years as I can remember and during my undergraduate experience at Penn State's University Park Campus I wore almost nothing but chinos and OCBD's or knit, collared polo shirts, depending on the time of year. I've seen, but never owned pants with a cinched back. I didn't realize Levi's even offered such a thing! I would have bought several pair, if I had known.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Levi's have been a component of the master's closet in the eagles roost for as many years as I can remember and during my undergraduate experience at Penn State's University Park Campus I wore almost nothing but chinos and OCBD's or knit, collared polo shirts, depending on the time of year. I've seen, but never owned pants with a cinched back. I didn't realize Levi's even offered such a thing! I would have bought several pair, if I had known.


I've owned a few dress-trousers (from Ralph I think) over the year that had that feature. Aesthetically, I like it a lot, but never used it as it would just wrinkle the back of the pants. One's in my closet now.

Kinda like you, since college, I've always had, at least, a few Levi's in my closet. And it might even have been since high school as my memory is a bit vague on when I bought the first pair. They were 501s that I wore all through college back when my closet was small and had plenty of empty space in it.

Good news, I was 32X34 (90% sure anyway) then and still am today.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51777


And here's a hearty nod to my old employer....Woolrich Woolen Mills, Woolrich Pennsylvania! I was privileged to work the loading dock and in one of their cutting rooms. I've enjoyed wearing a fair number of their garments over the years.


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## drpeter

I like cinched back pants too. I have a faint memory of possessing one, but I don't want to look through my closets to see if I can find it. I have a couple of nice tweed sportcoats by Levis, and also some wool slacks, all picked up while thrifting.

I find it hard to believe this is the same venerable Levi Strauss company that makes jeans. The logo and even the style is so different. Perhaps I am mistaken and they are two different companies.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I like cinched back pants too. I have a faint memory of possessing one, but I don't want to look through my closets to see if I can find it. I have a couple of nice tweed sportcoats by Levis, and also some wool slacks, all picked up while thrifting.
> 
> I find it hard to believe this is the same venerable Levi Strauss company that makes jeans. The logo and even the style is so different. Perhaps I am mistaken and they are two different companies.


I noticed that it didn't feel like Levi's either, but I think it is. Maybe Levi's was trying to "brand" its non-jean products with a different feel form its jeans back then.

I didn't know Levi's ever made Tweed sport coats. Any idea from what years those are?

It's funny, sometimes those "one-off" efforts form a company result in nice items as the company was trying something new and wanted to start off on the right foot.


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## drpeter

Based on the style and cut of the jackets, my Levi's jackets seem to be of early eighties vintage. There are occasional details that are a tad sportier, like bellows hip pockets on one, a throat latch on another. The quality and hand of the cloth is quite good, although certainly not like that of a Harris or HSM jacket.

Along the same lines, I have found several very well-made Stafford jackets done with beautiful 100% wool cloth in tweeds and checks, and cut in a moderate, timeless fashion -- sometimes sack style, sometimes darted fronts, medium lapels, two or three button fronts, sometimes with two spaced buttons on the cuffs. At $2 to $9 a jacket (depending on whether they are at clearance prices or regular Goodwill prices) these jackets are an _absolute bargain_. Many of the ones I have found this summer and fall are also brand new, with all the shop tags attached. The MSRPs on some are around $200.

What can I say? It pays to thrift, and then some!


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## ran23

My Levi sport coat is USA, 2 button and single vent. It was a surprise to find in my consignment store.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Botany 500 was a solid brand. I have some pieces by them, including a fine trenchcoat in a medium olive green that is beautifully constructed.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51800


Now that is one very classy flightsuit (read, suit for flying in) and one being offered for sale in the actual birth year of the USAF (1947)! Alas my Flight suit, was offered in only an olive drab option We didn't have to wear a tie with it, but rather a Dickie, or Ascot if you prefer a more subtle reference! .


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51840


Well, it tis the season and he is well dressed for the task at hand, has his best friend in tow, a thermos of coffee to warm his innards a blanket to provide a barrier between the winter chill and his butt cheeks a hand axe to take down the tree and a sled to facilitate it's transfer to the family's homestead. Life is good!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Well, it tis the season and he is well dressed for the task at hand, has his best friend in tow, a thermos of coffee to warm his innards a blanket to provide a barrier between the winter chill and his butt cheeks a hand axe to take down the tree and a sled to facilitate it's transfer to the family's homestead. Life is good!


Also, one of my favorite items of winter clothing of all time: the flannel-lined chino .


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## Oldsarge

I had a pair of flannel lined jeans during the winter I was stationed in Frankfurt, Germany. Never had any use for them afterwards but they were a definite comfort at the time.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51889


"Woolrich-Pearce?" Now that's a business alliance of which I had no prior knowledge! :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> "Woolrich-Pearce?" Now that's a business alliance of which I had no prior knowledge! :icon_scratch:


There are so many "one offs" out there, like this one (that I had no idea about, either, till I saw this ad). Or, the other day, @drpeter mention that he owned some Levi's Tweed sport coats. Until his post, I would have bet money that Levi's never made a sport coat.

I own a "made for J.Crew by Alden" boot, which is a collaboration that has lasted over a decade now, but in thirty years might be a head scratcher. I also own a "made for J.Crew by Sperry" Chukka that might seem crazy to some guy thrifting in 2055.

BB's Black Fleece line had some incredibly well-made garments (on sale and if you could find something not cut too skinny) that will seem like an off-beat find in the thrifting world's future: "Hey Joe, what was Brooks' Brothers 'Black Fleece' line; I've never heard of it, but it seems like good stuff?"

We own a "made for Filson by Pendleton, Smokey-the-Bear licensed" blanket (it's incredible) that Filson put out for one year and sold out quickly. Having worked in Corporate America (finance not retail, though), I can't even imaging how complicated the legal and business negotiations and coordination were to get those three entities together for that effort. Here's our blanket  #22 .

I own more stuff like that as I'm sure do most AAAC members. These "one offs" are a neat niche in clothing history.


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## smmrfld

Collabs are a great way to mash up the best of two companies. Crew went all in on this, and others like Epaulet have done some terrific stuff.


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## Oldsarge

I remember Levi's tweed but not much about it. I don't think I was in the market for such back then. Pity.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51935


I think today's ads are a mere pale, rather pathetic imitations of the marvelous ingenuity and character incorporated in vintage illustrations, such as the above. When we can better relate to the ad, we more frequently buy the product!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I think today's ads are a mere pale, rather pathetic imitations of the marvelous ingenuity and character incorporated in vintage illustrations, such as the above. When we can better relate to the ad, we more frequently buy the product!


One thing that's obvious is that, overall, ads back then had a lot more text. They were clearly confident that interested people would read them. Today, it's all about "capturing eyeballs" as advertisers know that almost everything is TLDR for this generation.

So ads today need an immediate image hook as they don't expect to engage the public with sentences or paragraphs the way these older ads did. Like you, I like the older style better, but that's maybe me just showing my age.

I have no problem following new ads or movies, but it's obvious that many of them are designed to move from image to image or scene to scene very quickly as if they believe viewers will get bored if they don't.


----------



## Oldsarge

Advertising executives have a 15 second attention span and think everyone else does, too.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51988


 Timely, classic and that marvelous illustration brings back memories and let me tell you, I do not miss wrestling with those darned Christmas lights each year. I do truly appreciate the pre-lit, artificial tree we put up over the holidays at this point in our lives! However, one point of consensus with the illustration that still remains is Mrs Eagle sitting on her throne, sipping her Pepsi and issuing instructions to her resident court jester! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

That's why we all call Mrs Eagle SWMBO!


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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

And a bonus one for today, probably from the '20s, note his button boots.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And a bonus one for today, probably from the '20s, note his button boots.
> View attachment 52130


Brings back memories of riding The South Shore & South Bend commuter rail into and out of Chicago on a daily basis. I used to get a lot of work done on the train. People used to look at me quizzically as I sat there mumbling into a dictaphone and frequently, even when the train was crowded, they would choose another seat and leave me to myself. Life can be incidentally good! LOL.


----------



## GRH

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52131
> 
> 
> And a bonus one for today, probably from the '20s, note his button boots.
> View attachment 52130





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52131
> 
> 
> And a bonus one for today, probably from the '20s, note his button boots.
> View attachment 52130


Sweet!


----------



## Oldsarge

The guy in the grey fedora looks like a Gestapo agent.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Brings back memories of riding The South Shore & South Bend commuter rail into and out of Chicago on a daily basis. I used to get a lot of work done on the train. People used to look at me quizzically as I sat there mumbling into a dictaphone and frequently, even when the train was crowded, they would choose another seat and leave me to myself. Life can be incidentally good! LOL.


These days, they just shout loudly into their smartphones, LOL. Or walk about talking with that Bluetooth thing in their ears -- at least, that's what I think it is.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52158


Truer words are only very rarely spoken! LOL. I do so love my Pendleton Board and Camp shirts and my Topsters. Love the illustration.


----------



## drpeter

Hear, hear! I love Pendletons, and not just shirts, but shirt-jackets, sportcoats, mufflers and even blankets. I have a mid-grey Pendleton wool muffler that is just about the softest thing you can possibly find to wrap around your neck on a chilly day -- of which we have plenty up here in the tundra, chilly days and thrifted mufflers both.


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## Oldsarge

Oregon's pride!


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast

And a little seasonal cheer:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52180
> 
> 
> And a little seasonal cheer:
> View attachment 52181


Is that a bottle of brew sitting just off the right arm of the little boy playing with his new train....you know, the one wearing the red sweater? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Is that a bottle of brew sitting just off the right arm of the little boy playing with his new train....you know, the one wearing the red sweater? :icon_scratch:


Could be, but it was probably just soda pop. The bottles often looked like that in the '50s as you can see in these ads from that decade:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I remember Squirt and Dad's Root Beer. Both were refreshing, for sure!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> I remember Squirt and Dad's Root Beer. Both were refreshing, for sure!


Stupid me, I just noticed the cooler with "7 UP" on it. This was, clearly, an ad for 7 UP, so it's pretty safe to assume that the bottles that every single person in the ad has are 7 UPs.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Stupid me, I just noticed the cooler with "7 UP" on it. This was, clearly, an ad for 7 UP, so it's pretty safe to assume that the bottles that every single person in the ad has are 7 UPs.


LOL, I guess we should both don our dunce caps. When I took a second look at the original post in response to your post above, it was the first I noticed the logo-ed cooler. Thanks for the guidance.


----------



## Oldsarge

I was that terrible kid who 'never got it' like most others did. I was terrible at baseball (and didn't like it), never played with electric trains, hated construction toys that came with sets of directions that said "Build This!"--I think I had too much imagination and not enough understanding that you had to start small. My poor father . . .


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

And a bonus Christmas one:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52313
> 
> 
> And a bonus Christmas one:
> View attachment 52315


While I can't claim to have much experience wearing shorts, even as a child, I can certainly conclude from today's illustration that, consistent with the narrative included in the illustration, those shorts do appear to be as well made as a pair of many men's dress pants. In my younger years I wore a lot of blue jeans and as a young teenager, my preference shifted to chinos and it appears I will never look back!


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52414


LOL, the party must be going well, as the dignity of the attendees attire exceeds that of the expressions worn on their faces! LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52451


Holiday shoppers, before this pandemic, for sure! Tis the season...miss the spirit.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Holiday shoppers, before this pandemic, for sure! Tis the season...miss the spirit.


I agree and it's part of what makes the illustration so evocative. I've got two more Christmas-themed illustrations lined up and plan to find a third and forth one for Christmas Eve and Day for us.


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## drpeter

An interesting image.

It is worth noting that the date on the magazine is December 23, 1944. The US and her allies were still in the middle of WWII, and at that time, there was no certainty that things would end by 1945. And yet, at least from the image on the magazine cover, people seem to be celebrating the holiday more or less in the right spirit, in spite of privations at home, and anxiety about those abroad fighting the war. Presents wrapped gaily, wreaths, smiling faces, decorations in the railway station, but also a few serious, even glum faces.

A bit of history: Although the D-Day invasion into Normandy began on June 6, 1944, and Russian advances from the East were progressing throughout 1944-45, the unconditional German surrender did not come until May 8, 1945, VE-Day. The war in the Pacific did not end until August 15, 1945, about one week after the dropping of atomic bombs in Japan.

Side note: August 15th is both my birthday (1950) and Indian Independence Day (1947).


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## rl1856

drpeter said:


> An interesting image.
> 
> It is worth noting that the date on the magazine is December 23, 1944. The US and her allies were still in the middle of WWII, and at that time, there was no certainty that things would end by 1945. And yet, at least from the image on the magazine cover, people seem to be celebrating the holiday more or less in the right spirit, in spite of privations at home, and anxiety about those abroad fighting the war. Presents wrapped gaily, wreaths, smiling faces, decorations in the railway station, but also a few serious, even glum faces.
> 
> A bit of history: Although the D-Day invasion into Normandy began on June 6, 1944, and Russian advances from the East were progressing throughout 1944-45, the unconditional German surrender did not come until May 8, 1945, VE-Day. The war in the Pacific did not end until August 15, 1945, about one week after the dropping of atomic bombs in Japan.
> 
> Side note: August 15th is both my birthday (1950) and Indian Independence Day (1947).


Your points are well taken. I noted the absence of men in uniform, as would have been the case in most cities at the time. Servicemen home on leave, or stationed near bye.

The painting was likely commissioned in the summer or early fall of 1944....a time of great optimism. We landed at Normandy and proceeded NE with very little opposition until Oct 44. Patton had emerged from Italy, and was moving 45-60miles per day through the back of France until slowed down by a shortage of gasoline. In late summer, early fall of 1944 many felt the war could be over by Christmas.

Unfortunately we suffered a setback in Holland, and then came the Battle of the Bulge in Dec...or just before this issue was dated, lending a bit of melancholy to the euphoria depicted in the painting.


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## drpeter

Good points. Operation Market Garden did not go too well, and the Battle of Arnhem in September 1944 was an unmitigated disaster for the British First Airborne Division, which did not see combat again during the war, with almost 75% casualties. I've been to many of the Dutch towns and cities that were involved in this phase of the Allied push, although that was long after the war!

It is interesting to note how seminal the Second World War was to the entire world. I think of it as the central event of the 20th century. The world changed because of that, and there were vast migrations of people that the war engendered, which continued well into the second half of the twentieth century. In one sense, my personal history reflects these effects.

My father was in Malaya during the Japanese Occupation, 1941-45, and my childhood was spent during the insurrection against the British in the fifties. The United States became the country of choice for vast numbers of aspiring scientists and academics, and I was one of those who came here to do doctoral work, and stayed on as a professor, eventually acquiring citizenship.

The opening of US citizenship to people around the world, as opposed to Europeans alone, came about because of changes in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) - the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952 which ended Asian exclusion, and the Hart-Celler Act of 1965 which ended quotas and installed family reunification. They changed the demographics of the US in a fairly rapid way. We can observe these demographic changes still causing rifts in our great experiment, of a country built out of immigration. Things to reflect on and consider seriously as this _annus horribilis_ comes to a welcome end.


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## Oldsarge

_Annus horribilis_ indeed. Today Kilauea has erupted, for pete's sake. All we need now is a significant meteorite to top things off brown.


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## drpeter

Covid on the one side, volcanic eruption on the other, and I also heard Hawaii just experienced an earthquake that was 4.4 on the Richter scale. On top of the pandemic and general malaise, how can those poor people cope?


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52505


What a perfect memory for this season of the year, but Uh-Oh! Something tells me that that Swiffer floor mop I gift wrapped for Mrs Eagles Christmas isn't going to go over well! LOL. :crazy:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> What a perfect memory for this season of the year, but Uh-Oh! Something tells me that that Swiffer floor mop I gift wrapped for Mrs Eagles Christmas isn't going to go over well! LOL. :crazy:


I have a feeling you're going to find out how much it hurts to get bonked on the head with a Swiffer mop. 

Also, I don't know what goes on at your house, but the Fading Fasts are dressed and coiffed a tiny bit less formalyl than the perfect couple in the illustration when we open our gifts, as long as a combination of random sweats and flannel PJs with hair going in every direction counts as "a little less formal."


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## Oldsarge

Levis and Pendletons (and not enough hair to coif) are the rule here in the PNW along with sourdough pancakes.


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## Fading Fast




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## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52543
> View attachment 52545


Interesting, there was a Harley's men's store in Milwaukee for years. Their store front, as I recall was very similar to the one shown above but the displays were much more interesting (at least to me).


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## drpeter

You're right @FiscalDean . I remember seeing the place when visiting Milwaukee, just a couple of hours' drive from where I live. And judging by this website, they must still be there:

https://hhclothingco.com/pages/harleys

It's actually run by the HH Clothing company, and they have a shop in Green Bay as well.


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## FiscalDean

drpeter said:


> You're right @FiscalDean . I remember seeing the place when visiting Milwaukee, just a couple of hours' drive from where I live. And judging by this website, they must still be there:
> 
> https://hhclothingco.com/pages/harleys
> 
> It's actually run by the HH Clothing company, and they have a shop in Green Bay as well.


InterestingI was not aware they were re-incarnated. The originally located in the Milwaukee suburb of Shorewood closed a few years ago.


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## drpeter

Perhaps it was simply a re-location from Shorewood to the current Water Street location? Also, while the website lists a Green Bay location, I have never seen it.

By the way, there was a lovely men's shop called Roger Stevens Menswear, inside the Pfister Hotel in Milwaukee. I used to have conversations about clothes with Mr Stevens, a gracious chap who owned the business. Good memories of staying in the hotel with friends and going out to dinner and a show.


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## Fading Fast




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## FiscalDean

drpeter said:


> Perhaps it was simply a re-location from Shorewood to the current Water Street location? Also, while the website lists a Green Bay location, I have never seen it.
> 
> By the way, there was a lovely men's shop called Roger Stevens Menswear, inside the Pfister Hotel in Milwaukee. I used to have conversations about clothes with Mr Stevens, a gracious chap who owned the business. Good memories of staying in the hotel with friends and going out to dinner and a show.


In 2017, the owner announced a big retirement sale (up to 70% off) and had indicated he hoped to sell the store. At the time, there wasn't a done deal although he was looking at a couple of potential buyers. Apparently a deal was made although I can't find any big announcement of the sale and relocation.

Roger Stevens was a very fine store. I worked in downtown Milwaukee for a number of years and always enjoyed my lunch time walks past the Pfister. They always had to best window displays.


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## drpeter

Yes, the window displays at Stevens' were great. 

I haven't been to the Pfister in ages. I hope they have not been hit too hard with the pandemic and the general economic downturn this year. It was a hotel in the grand old tradition, a nice lobby, a fine restaurant, and places to sit and listen to the piano over drinks or coffee. The antique furniture in the hotel's rooms were also a pleasure.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52649


Indeed, the male of the species is not the only gender afflicted with wandering eyes syndrome! LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Indeed, the male of the species is not the only gender afflicted with wandering eyes syndrome! LOL.


Oh yes, women are usually more discrete, but still, they look. It's been a long time since I've been on the receiving end, but being the recipient of such a look will give a little lift to your day.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Classic mid-grey (flannel?) suit. I tried to read the text. It looks like a college setting. I don't think I wore suits regularly to teach, but I did wear sportcoats and ties.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Classic mid-grey (flannel?) suit. I tried to read the text. It looks like a college setting. I don't think I wore suits regularly to teach, but I did wear sportcoats and ties.


Based on ads like this, movies and books from the period and a few other things I've read or seen over the years, it appears college kids did wear suits in the '30s - '60s (pre-1967 anyway) or sport coats and ties as part of their regular rotation of outfits.

I've also seen plenty of kids, from that time period, wearing ties with cardigans or other sweaters only (meaning not with a suit or sport coat) and, also, college kids without a tie and just an open-collar shirt with a sport coat or sweater (or, especially by the '50s, no tie and an open-collar shirt without a sport coat or suit).

Finally, in the '50s, you also start to see jeans sneaking into their wardrobes, but mainly for not-going-to-class wear.


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## drpeter

A related observation I have often mulled over in my mind, especially as a film buff: In most American (and perhaps European) movies, we find that the principal characters are in suits and ties, or sport coats with or without ties. Now this may have reflected the way the public dressed in the thirties through the fifties, but by the time the seventies and eighties rolled around, the majority of people one saw on the streets (with the exception of big cities perhaps where there were many businessmen and government officials) were dressed casually -- sweaters, windcheaters, casual jackets and such, and folks with ties were rather thin on the ground.

Nevertheless, the makers of movies have continued to put their major characters in sports jackets and ties, and often in suits. Even some of the action films have their characters dressed in suits and ties, the classic example being the Bond films as they have evolved over the past fifty years or so. A suit and tie ought to be very restricting when one is involved in a fight, but everyone from Connery to Craig (and their opponents), appears to engage in fighting while wearing their suits!

So films don't seem to reflect the trends in clothing seen among people. Of course, I am aware that there are many exceptions, especially where the dress or costumes have to reflect a particular period in time or a specific segment of society, but this seems to be one area where, generally speaking, production values have ossified.


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## Fading Fast

⇧ I've noticed this too and think it's because suits, ties, sport coats, etc. look better and help tell the story (for example, the business guy - especially since Hollywood makes most of them evil - looks more the part in a suit and tie than jeans, an open-collared shirt and fleece vest) and TV and movies are a very visual medium. As you note, there are many, many exceptions, but overall, characters on TV and in movies dress much nicer today than the general public.

It's very noticeable at TV and movie funerals. At them, usually (exceptions exist, of course), the male characters are dressed in traditional dark-colored suits and ties (with the women equally attired). For a funeral to have the right visual effect - to reflect the emotion and somberness of the event - this is all but necessary. TV/movie directors/stylist get this and do what they do despite the fact that no one has dressed that way at funerals (some individuals do, but not the entire procession as on TV) for almost two decades.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Great minds think alike, Faders. Two days ago, I picked up a soft, unstructured Pendleton jacket identical to the one in the picture above, except for the buttons (mine has small leather "football" buttons) and the pattern (mine is a dark brown and black check). It is 100% wool, and I paid $10 for it, less than the price in the advert, LOL. Super comfortable.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

Happy New Year


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## drpeter

And the same to you, and to all of our members. May the new year bring peace and renewed hope for our world.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Happy New Year
> View attachment 52837


The only way I could attend that party is if they would advance the hands on that grand clock two to two and a half hours forward, so that it chimed midnight at perhaps 2130 and 2200 hours, actual! Otherwise I would be found in a chair in the corner...sleeping.  LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Is that Dad sleeping it off after New Year's Eve revelries?

Anyway, what really caught my attention was the new Raffles Story, an extract titled "Stamps are my fortune". As a stamp collector, I am quite curious and will have to research this one!

AJ Raffles, was an amateur sleuth created by EW Hornung, the brother-in-law of Arthur Conan Doyle. Raffles was a kind of inversion of Sherlock Holmes, a detective with a dark side. There's a copy of a story collection by Hornung called _The Amateur Cracksman_ in my university's library, so I'll have to check it out and see how these stories are.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52878


It looks like a demented Jack Nicholson ready to jump up and announce to the family, "I'm Back!" LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Those lapels are identical to the ones on a brown glen check DB sports jacket I acquired a couple of weeks ago! Wide and big, with the notch very narrow and horizontal. I wonder if there is a name for that style of lapel, other than simply _peaked lapel_.

The entire ensemble looks very well coordinated, especially the hat and the cane. The only person whom I know who wears a hat and a cane is my downstairs neighbour Bruce, a great Anglophile and a natty dresser. He goes out for a mid-afternoon walk in a nice overcoat, a black felt hat, and a cane.

Thank you for this great image, Faders. And a very healthy and happy New Year to you!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Those lapels are identical to the ones on a brown glen check DB sports jacket I acquired a couple of weeks ago! Wide and big, with the notch very narrow and horizontal. I wonder if there is a name for that style of lapel, other than simply _peaked lapel_.
> 
> The entire ensemble looks very well coordinated, especially the hat and the cane. The only person whom I know who wears a hat and a cane is my downstairs neighbour Bruce, a great Anglophile and a natty dresser. He goes out for a mid-afternoon walk in a nice overcoat, a black felt hat, and a cane.
> 
> Thank you for this great image, Faders. And a very healthy and happy New Year to you!


Thank you and the same to you for a wonderful New Year.

My guess, from everything in the pic, it's the late '20s to '30s. It's just another example of how long the basic suit-shirt-tie construct for men held as it's still kinda sorta in place, at least for those who wear a suit, almost a hundred years later.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Boy, the sixties (and I'm assuming this one is from that period) must have been the decade of polyester. So many combinations of artificial fibres, with or without natural ones, in the garments of those years. While thrifting I find that there are so many US made neckties that are 100% polyester, dating back to the sixties -- judging by the styles and labels.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Boy, the sixties (and I'm assuming this one is from that period) must have been the decade of polyester. So many combinations of artificial fibres, with or without natural ones, in the garments of those years. While thrifting I find that there are so many US made neckties that are 100% polyester, dating back to the sixties -- judging by the styles and labels.


Recalling the Ban-Lon polo shirts I wore, way back when, I'm pretty sure you assessment of 100% polyester construction are right on the money!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52973


Lost somewhere in the hoard, I have a Woolrich version of the Red&Black Buffalo Plaid Mackinaw Cruiser jacket. Although, as I recall, mine doesn't feature the multi-directional plaids featured on the jacket in the illustration!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Lost somewhere in the hoard, I have a Woolrich version of the Red&Black Buffalo Plaid Mackinaw Cruiser jacket. Although, as I recall, mine doesn't feature the multi-directional plaids featured on the jacket in the illustration!


Funny, I found the change from the "multi-directional" plaid to the straight up-and-down and side-to-side plaid awkward looking in the same garment. Either plaid pattern would be fine by itself in a garment, but together they looked "off" to my eye. Thus, I think I'd like your jacket better.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

This advert takes me back in time and brings back memories! When I first came to the US, I often travelled by Greyhound coach because it was the right price for a graduate student living on a small research assistantship and a Dean's fellowship (combined total in 1975: $3,400 for nine months). I arrived at JFK in New York in August, 1975, and stayed a week with a friend there, then took a Greyhound to Boston and spent a week with my brother, a graduate student at Tufts University then and living in Cambridge, Mass.

This was my first experience of US roads and I was astonished at how good the highways were compared to the rough surface of Indian highways and roads in those days. The seats were big and comfortable, and it felt almost like flying in an airplane! Nowadays, most people look down upon bus travel, but these matters are relative, I suppose. I took another Greyhound to Rochester in upstate New York, where I was to spend several years doing graduate work at the University of Rochester.

Well, thanks for the memories, Faders!


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53018


My last trip on a Greyhound Bus was back in the mid 1960's when the Air Force sent me from Lock Haven, PA to McGuire AFB, NJ, for a flight physical and a physical aptitude test, as part of the screening process for admittance to the USAF Academy. Can you believe that , a two day bus ride for a wannabe pilot? I'll bet the Air Force saved a lot on that one! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Wow, I don't think I have ever been on a two-day bus ride. Trains are usually more comfortable for trips longer than a day.

LOL, they could have fitted you out with a parachute and air-dropped you on one of their many training flights or sorties or what have you...


----------



## Oldsarge

I don't know how these things are figured but for reasons beyond my comprehension the Pentagon believes that it's cheaper to put Reservists on commercial flights than to put them in the belly of a C5 full of cargo that's already going where the Reservists need to be. Then you have to consider the taxi from the airport to a hotel, meals and lodging before some OD truck picks them up and drives for a couple of hours out into the hinterlands where the airbase and the training area are. I don't understand.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53121


There sure is a lot of looking going on in today's illustration. It is truly entertaining to consider it all, but when were people ever permitted to drink a Pepsi at their desk in the work place...in those good old days?


----------



## Oldsarge

In Pepsi HQ?


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

They look like the drainpipe trousers I wore back in the sixties as a teenager. LOL, fond memories...


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53168


Did we ever have a waist as slim as the guy carrying the clipboard. I tell you this: yes,,,yes, yes I did and thank gawd for kodak...because pictures are the only way I could prove that claim! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

My favorite parts of this one are the office furniture and that floor.


----------



## drpeter

My favourite part is the lovely maroon dress the lady is wearing, probably a rich wool flannel. It goes very well with her blonde hair, red lipstick and peaches-and-cream complexion. Now, is she wiping away a tear as the man seems to be dressing her down (pun intended)?

The image reminds me of a psychological test known as the TAT (Thematic Apperception Test) in which the person taking the test is shown a picture rather like the one above, and then asked to write a story based on what they think is happening in the scene depicted in the picture. The pictures always involve one or more human beings. The TAT is, like the Rorschach Inkblot Test, one of a class of personality tests called Projective Tests.. They have poor validity and reliability and are not used very much anymore.

I like the furniture too and I have an identical, nicely patina'd oak chair, and a small, heavy wooden filing cabinet similar to the bigger ones shown here.


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## Fading Fast

Note his tab (or maybe that's a pin I spy) collar.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53266
> 
> Note his tab (or maybe that's a pin I spy) collar.


I suspect your assessment is spot on. Given the lateral creasing seen on the collar, that is a tight tab collar...or perhaps his tie blade is just bunched under the collar. :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

J.C. Leyendecker, 1929 Kuppenheimer Clothes Ad


----------



## Oldsarge

Now there's an ominous pair. Like the gumshoe once said, "Look for the best dressed man in the room." He's your perp.


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## Fading Fast

From the Ivy Style website:








http://www.ivy-style.com/getting-fitted-at-chipp-in-the-fifties.html


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## Fading Fast




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## godan

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Great picture. The gentleman, while certainly projecting an arguably enigmatic look, does provide some hints at what he is about. The pistol he carries looks to be a German Luger P-08; semi-automatic action employing an 8 round box magazine of 9mm ammunition and exhibiting a nasty habit of malfunctioning in the heat of battle. Knowing that and noting the furtive look in his eyes, the gentleman is probably soiling the seat of those nice white pants he is wearing. Just thinkin.....:crazy:


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## godan

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 32538
> 
> Mead Schaeffer (1898-1980). The enigmatic man in the white suit and revolver. With the tropical suit and the Javanese puppet design in the background, this is presumably an illustration for a story set in the Far East. Schaeffer produced illustrations for many American magazines and numerous 'adventure' books, including 'Moby Dick' & 'The Count of Monte Christo'


The illustrator has his man holding the pistol correctly, with the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard. Unusual for the era.


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## eagle2250

godan said:


> The illustrator has his man holding the pistol correctly, with the trigger finger outside of the trigger guard. Unusual for the era.


Good point, for sure!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53421


My favorite is the one on the bottom row, with the raglan sleeves. At those prices, one of each would be affordable! LOL.


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## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> Several years ago, I saw an exhibit of his work at the Met here in NYC and realized that his influence - to this day - is incredible. Once you become familiar with his work, you can't help seeing its offspring in many current ads, artwork, branding etc..


In music, his counterpart would be Aaron Copeland. Get familiar with his work and suddenly you begin wondering how a small, slight Jewish composer from Brooklyn somehow set the example for the background music of every major Western movie you ever enjoyed. One of my music professors explained it by saying that all the film score composers studied under him. Makes sense. He was the dominant American composer of the century.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53479


"There are eight million stories in the Naked city"...and I'll bet that hat/coat rack has at least a hundred and one of them to tell, for our listening enjoyment!  Seriously, the above is a nice, thought provoking illustration.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53508


The good looking guy on the rail, with the great big nose and the pompadour hair style is making good use of the navy blazer. Wait a minute...all the guys have great big noses and the ladies have cute little button noses! I claim foul. LOL.


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## Fading Fast

1920s or earlier would be my guess. I bet these were pretty sporting young fellows in their day.


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## drpeter

Love the artwork! 

I wonder how comfortable those high, stiff club collars were. If this image is from the twenties, they were probably made of celluloid. My Dad wore detachable celluloid collars with some of his shirts in the fifties.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Love the artwork!
> 
> I wonder how comfortable those high, stiff club collars were. If this image is from the twenties, they were probably made of celluloid. My Dad wore detachable celluloid collars with some of his shirts in the fifties.


I can't imagine they were comfortable. I can see them irritating the heck out one's neck. But then they were quite popular, so one assumes they couldn't have been that terrible.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53608


That brings back memories. Years ago, Midwest Express Airlines served all passengers real food on china with honest to goodness silverware. They also offered free unlimited wine and warm chocolate chip cookies.


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## pammannion

Great thread, where has this been all my life!?


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53608


A great illustration, but complete candor requires that I disclose that I personally have no direct experience with that era of commercial flight. However, during the period 1984 through 2003, I logged several thousand air hours on commercial flights and I can tell you, those were definitely not my "favorite chairs!" Quarters were decidedly cramped and passengers in designated rows of seats were allowed to smoke and foul the air throughout the plane for all of us and I cannot recall airline food ever being anything special and longed for the inflight box lunches the USAF issued to us, earlier in my life. But "those were the days, my friend!"


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## Oldsarge

Flying went to Hell when the airlines turned the top deck lounge on the 747 into first class and the rest of the plane into steerage.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I think raglan sleeves are fine if you have well-defined shoulders that are reasonably parallel to the ground. If you have sloping shoulders, it is much better to have set-in sleeves with some discreet padding. Of course, I am assuming that sloping shoulders are something you might want to make some adjustments for, and perhaps disguise a bit. If that is not true for you, then my reasoning does not apply.

In this connection, one of the great things about well-tailored garments, and of course MTM or bespoke ones, is that they can correct for those aspects of _every_ man's body that might require some adjustment. All of us have departures from the physical ideal -- in proportion, symmetry and balance. That is human physiognomy. Sometimes, our own lives and the aging process create changes in our bodies, such as gaining or losing weight, that can alter our appearance to be less than ideal by our own reckoning. A good tailor takes this into account, and makes the adjustments needed to create a garment in which we look our best. The elegant appearance of the client ought to be the goal of the tailor, and indeed it is for the best of them. It is this deep understanding of human nature, of what ideal appearance the client wants to project, that informs the finest tailors.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53726


What is not to love about that Oh-so-handsome overcoat, Raglan sleeves, a half belt across the back, cargo pockets? It's got anything one needs to step out styling. Alas, Mrs Eagle just advised me that wanting an overcoat like that, while living in central Florida is a sure indication of the onset of insanity. I'll be scratching that one off my wish list! LOL.


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## 215339

drpeter said:


> I think raglan sleeves are fine if you have well-defined shoulders that are reasonably parallel to the ground. If you have sloping shoulders, it is much better to have set-in sleeves with some discreet padding. Of course, I am assuming that sloping shoulders are something you might want to make some adjustments for, and perhaps disguise a bit. If that is not true for you, then my reasoning does not apply.
> 
> In this connection, one of the great things about well-tailored garments, and of course MTM or bespoke ones, is that they can correct for those aspects of _every_ man's body that might require some adjustment. All of us have departures from the physical ideal -- in proportion, symmetry and balance. That is human physiognomy. Sometimes, our own lives and the aging process create changes in our bodies, such as gaining or losing weight, that can alter our appearance to be less than ideal by our own reckoning. A good tailor takes this into account, and makes the adjustments needed to create a garment in which we look our best. The elegant appearance of the client ought to be the goal of the tailor, and indeed it is for the best of them. It is this deep understanding of human nature, of what ideal appearance the client wants to project, that informs the finest tailors.


Raglans have been very trendy lately, and I'm all on board.

Tailoring wise, they're not exactly ideal or super flattering, but my favourite aspect is the slouchy, cozy vibes that are inherent to such a shoulder construction.

The other aspect is that raglans are also easier to fit into with various sizes IMO, precision is less necessary.


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## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53726


Damn, that's a good looking coat.


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## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> Raglans have been very trendy lately, and I'm all on board.
> 
> Tailoring wise, they're not exactly ideal or super flattering, but my favourite aspect is the slouchy, cozy vibes that are inherent to such a shoulder construction.
> 
> The other aspect is that raglans are also easier to fit into with various sizes IMO, precision is less necessary.


Yes, they are easier to fit, most definitely. And you don't have to worry about padding that can sometimes be too large or unsightly.

Raglans also serve as a cape when simply draped over the shoulders. I have always liked the idea of genuine capes and cloaks, and have been keeping an eye out for them in antique shops and vintage clothing shops. They are not easy to find in the usual thrift places like Goodwill. In fact, I have never seen one in such shops.

A similar effect is achieved with a poncho. I have lived off and on in Ecuador, and have kicked myself for never having bought one of the lovely, thick wool ponchos, traditionally dark blue, that the native Inca people (the runa) wear. It's a great item of clothing and also serves as a blanket if you want to curl up on a couch. A collar, a neck opening and the cloth spread around your body.


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## Fading Fast

And speaking of raglan sleeves.


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## 215339

drpeter said:


> Yes, they are easier to fit, most definitely. And you don't have to worry about padding that can sometimes be too large or unsightly.
> 
> Raglans also serve as a cape when simply draped over the shoulders. I have always liked the idea of genuine capes and cloaks, and have been keeping an eye out for them in antique shops and vintage clothing shops. They are not easy to find in the usual thrift places like Goodwill. In fact, I have never seen one in such shops.
> 
> A similar effect is achieved with a poncho. I have lived off and on in Ecuador, and have kicked myself for never having bought one of the lovely, thick wool ponchos, traditionally dark blue, that the native Inca people (the runa) wear. It's a great item of clothing and also serves as a blanket if you want to curl up on a couch. A collar, a neck opening and the cloth spread around your body.


An Inca poncho sounds awfully appealing. Happen to have any pictures on how that might work?

Agreed, raglans are a socially acceptable way of wearing a cape.


Fading Fast said:


> And speaking of raglan sleeves.
> View attachment 53767


Reminds me of this coat I found that I want to copy in the future as well. Normally I don't like ticket pockets, but I think they're perfect on an "anti-fit" coat like a raglan/Bal.










Though I think I'd want a bigger ticket pocket for a modern cellphone.


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## drpeter

Nice coat! I like the ticket pocket, but then I have a number of English sports jackets where ticket pockets with flaps are almost standard, along with double vents.

I am not overly fond of throat latches, on the other hand -- I'll tolerate them on outerwear, but not on sports jackets. They seem a bit of an affectation, since weather that calls for a throat latch also calls for heavier or more protective outerwear than sportcoats.

If you google for images of ponchos and add Peru or Ecuador, you will get a number of images that show you many varieties. I personally don't care for the hoods attached to them -- this seems to be a North American add-on, since I never saw one with a hood in South America at least thirty years ago when I spent time on that continent. But maybe they all wear one with the hood now.


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## 215339

drpeter said:


> Nice coat! I like the ticket pocket, but then I have a number of English sports jackets where ticket pockets, with flaps are almost standard, along with double vents.
> 
> I am not overly fond of throat latches, on the other hand -- I'll tolerate them on outerwear, but not on sports jackets. They seem a bit of an affectation, since weather that calls for a throat latch also calls for heavier or more protective outerwear than sportcoats.
> 
> If you google for images of ponchos and add Peru or Ecuador, you will get a number of images that show you many varieties. I personally don't care for the hoods attached to them -- this seems to be a North American add-on, since I never saw one with a hood in South America at least thirty years ago when I spent time on that continent. But maybe they all wear one with the hood now.


I don't like throat latches either on SCs, or even ticket pockets. They're both 'functional' details and take away from the aesthetic and flow of a sports coat.

Also why I'm not a fan of square patch pockets with flaps on SCs, they add unnecessary bulk right around the hips.

All of these funky details work better on outerwear due to the very nature of the cuts of an overcoat. They're cut straight versus a sports jacket. A raglan takes this even further by not adding any shape at all to a person wearing it.

I have a coat with a hidden throat latch that's doubled on itself and buttoned underneath the collar. That is vastly preferred IMO to the big flappy one up there.

Ah, these ponchos remind me of southwestern style shirts and cardigans I've seen, very nice textures and patterns.


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## drpeter

Unless I misunderstand what you are saying, the two items pictured above are not ponchos. They are jackets.

A poncho is simply a rectangular piece of cloth with an opening in the middle through which you put your head. Sometimes a collar can be added, these days a hood. Otherwise it is just like a cape. Also like the iconic Mexican serape worn by Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti western films of the sixties. Here is an example:


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## 215339

drpeter said:


> Unless I misunderstand what you are saying, the two items pictured above are not ponchos. They are jackets.
> 
> A poncho is simply a rectangular piece of cloth with an opening in the middle through which you put your head. Sometimes a collar can be added, these days a hood. Otherwise it is just like a cape. Also like the iconic Mexican serape worn by Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti western films of the sixties. Here is an example:
> 
> View attachment 53790


I should have posted a poncho and then the cardigans for clarity. Yeah I'm aware on what a poncho is, they're quite rare up here.

Basically I was saying that the ponchos' textures and patterns remind me of the american southwest patterns I see on shirts and cardigans, such as the ones I posted.

I think buying one would actually be more useful than the robe I bought for lounging, it gets in the way a lot.


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## Oldsarge

Ponchos with hoods are Army issue rainwear. They're no good. They keep the rain off but trap so much moisture inside that you're just as wet as if you'd left it in your pack. Woolen ponchos look cool and keep you warm, to a degree.


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> ...They're no good. They keep the rain off but trap so much moisture inside that you're just as wet as if you'd left it in your pack....


LOL


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## Fading Fast

Staying with raglan sleeves.


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## drpeter

Since I have picked up a number of overcoats and topcoats in recent months, I have noticed how much variation there is in the way they are structured and the way they fit. If I go by how well a coat fits me at the top (shoulders for set-in sleeves, upper torso for raglan) over a suit/sports jacket or sweater, I find that the rest of the coat can range from fairly snug to very loose in how they fit me. I'm sure there are also stylistic variations over time.

In the above image, the fit is fairly loose. The air trapped inside the coat forms an insulating layer of warmth, so the body is kept warm.


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast




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## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with raglan sleeves.
> View attachment 53798


I wonder if there exists a coat with completely slanted patch pockets? May look terrible, but I know I've seen slanted flaps/opening on a patch pocket.










The raglan coat with notch lapels reminds me of DDL's coat we've discussed before










Most people weren't a huge fans of notch lapels on a raglan coat, but I really dig it. I think it looks a bit more modest.


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## Fading Fast




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## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53880


While the tie is way too short, I really like the outfit. I've always been a sucker for a brown suit.


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## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> While the tie is way too short, I really like the outfit. I've always been a sucker for a brown suit.


In the '30s and, then, less so in the following two decades, some percentage of men wore very short ties like that. I've read that the theory was that the men who did always kept their suit jackets buttoned or wore vests so the shortness of the tie wouldn't be seen. But as shown in the illustration - and as I see in old movies all the time - they did tend to pop out now and then.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53880


Hey Baby, way, way back in the day I was a furrier's apprentice. If I had stuck with the program, I could have made that 'stole' for you. Can't help but notice that you must be cold...your legs are turning blue. Perhaps you need a full length coat? LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Hey Baby, way, way back in the day I was a furrier's apprentice. If I had stuck with the program, I could have made that 'stole' for you. Can't help but notice that you must be cold...your legs are turning blue. Perhaps you need a full length coat? LOL.


Ah, the days of colored stocking and, well, what some people thought they said about the wearer.


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## fred johnson

delicious_scent said:


> I wonder if there exists a coat with completely slanted patch pockets? May look terrible, but I know I've seen slanted flaps/opening on a patch pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The raglan coat with notch lapels reminds me of DDL's coat we've discussed before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most people weren't a huge fans of notch lapels on a raglan coat, but I really dig it. I think it looks a bit more modest.


For some twisted reason I am not a fan of exposed buttons on SB topcoats or overcoats.


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## 215339

fred johnson said:


> For some twisted reason I am not a fan of exposed buttons on SB topcoats or overcoats.


For me it depends on the overall configuration of the coat.

I had a Balmacaan made recently and forgot to mention to my tailor I wanted exposed buttons. He went with fly front and I actually like the clean, seamless look more combined with a shirt-style collar.

For DDL's coat up there, I think it looks better combined with the notch lapel.


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## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Hey Baby, way, way back in the day I was a furrier's apprentice. If I had stuck with the program, I could have made that 'stole' for you. Can't help but notice that you must be cold...your legs are turning blue. Perhaps you need a full length coat? LOL.


Seriously? You were? That's astonishing. I used to have some grand-uncles who were in the fur business and did taxidermy on the side. I'm not sure exactly where they fit on the family tree (extended Italian family, don'tcherknow) but they did all sorts of strange things. In today's world they'd make a fortune supplying cosplay fanatics.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I've never cared for sweet things in my drinks, back when I used to drink. The only exception was with Manhattans, where a small dash of sweet vermouth did enhance the taste of the Canadian Club. Even better, a perfect Manhattan, with a dash of dry vermouth added along with the sweet. And an olive, instead of a cherry. And very little ice, please! I know -- picky, picky.


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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> Seriously? You were? That's astonishing. I used to have some grand-uncles who were in the fur business and did taxidermy on the side. I'm not sure exactly where they fit on the family tree (extended Italian family, don'tcherknow) but they did all sorts of strange things. In today's world they'd make a fortune supplying cosplay fanatics.


LOL. Indeed I was, but the Master Furrier didn't teach me much. I was hired primarily to stretch Australian possum tails, which were cut to specific widths and eventually sewed into 50', 100' and 200' rolls and sold to the Textile industries to line the leading edge of the shuttle cock(s) on their looms. That's all I did, getting paid just .02 cents a tail. Doesn't sound like much, but I was able to buy most of my school clothes, an inflatable raft for cruising the Susquehanna river, my first two used cars and still accumulate several thousand dollars in the bank. Not bad wages for a kid!


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## Fading Fast

Did someone mention being a furrier? This young woman is much appreciative of your work:








Note his beautiful dove-grey herringbone overcoat.

Also, the background statue ⇧ is the "Pulitzer Fountain." It's located in what's called The Grand Army Plaza, which is in front of the Plaza hotel in NYC. It's still there today. The angle of this pic ⇩ is a bit different, but you can see the statue and hotel as in the illustration above.


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## drpeter

New York is one of the great cities of the world. My first day in this country was spent in New York, and I have visited the City many times since. The loveliest statue I have ever seen in all my travels over the years in this world is also in New York, in Central Park. And guess what, chaps? It was made by a woman.

It is the statue of the Angel Bethesda by Emma Stebbins, the first woman ever to receive a public commission for a major work of art in New York City, back in 1868. Here it is. Don't you agree, it is simply magnificent, it is poetry in bronze:


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## Fading Fast

There are 29 (I looked it up) statues in Central Park. My girlfriend and I, over the years, have made a point of finding them all (some are tucked away in quirky places and the park is quite large).

It's hard to pick a favorite as so many are beautiful, like the one @drpeter notes, which is also situated in one of the park's most beautiful settings, Bethesda Terrace:









Our sentimental favorite though is this one of Balto:








*Balto* (1919 - March 14, 1933) was a Siberian Husky and sled dog belonging to musher and breeder Leonhard Seppala.[1][2] He achieved fame when he led a team of sled dogs on the final leg of the 1925 serum run to Nome, in which diphtheria antitoxin was transported from Anchorage, Alaska, to Nenana, Alaska, by train and then to Nome by dog sled to combat an outbreak of the disease.[3]
(full Wikipedia article: )https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balto

And one of our favorite quirky ones is the one of Samuel Morse:








Morse rests one hand on his single-wire telegraph, and the other clasps a strip of Morse code.

I promise to stop after one more (love the animals in this one):
















The *Delacorte Clock*, or *George Delacorte Musical Clock*, is a clock and art installation outside the Central Park Zoo in Central Park, Manhattan, New York. The clock is named after George T. Delacorte Jr., and was dedicated in 1965.[1][2][3]

The clock is mounted on a three-tiered tower above the arcade between the Wildlife Center and the Children's Zoo.[2] The clock contains representations of animals playing instruments, and plays music every half hour, at 0 and 30 minutes past the hour, between 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. The clock's music is selected from one of 44 pre-recorded tracks.[3]
(From Wikipedia)

We can now return to our regularly scheduled programing of illustrations of Trad-influencing/influenced clothing.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Suits were worn more loosely in the old days (especially trousers) and the shoulders were relatively more extended.

One of the benefits of thrifting is that you can find a whole range of stylistic variations in jackets, trousers and suits -- varying lapel widths, shoulder structures, button stances and so forth. I enjoy all of these variations and will often pick up a jacket with dramatic lapels or interesting shoulder structure, although they may not be something I would wear in a standard way, in a context where a moderate jacket or suit would be called for. I don't mind standing out a little at a social or friendly gathering with a jacket that looks a bit unusual. It could be something that leads to an interesting conversation!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54062


Chapeaus are such a nice finishing touch, I wish we saw more of them these days!


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## drpeter

Was it with the Kennedy administration that people stopped wearing hats? I think he avoided them.


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## Oldsarge

He did but hats had been in decline long before he was elected. One story I read was that the increasingly low tops on automobiles were a major factor.


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## Tweedlover

Am a lover of hats, at least if they're fedoras and tweed flat caps. Don't have a lot-2 felt fedoras, a straw fedora and 2 flat caps. 1 of my felt fedoras is a tan Lee from the 1940's I'd bought for $2 in a Goodwill some 35 years ago in nearly new condition. I favor wide brims with fedoras.


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## Fading Fast

For our new member and hat fan @Tweedlover:


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## drpeter

I have a Knox in my small hat collection, a dark brown felt hat. I also have a variety of hats from different parts of the world, including a gendarme's cap from France, a solar topee or sun helmet from India with a neck cover extension (very colonial) a fez from Morocco, and an olive drab Gurkha jungle hat with a side brim fastening, much like the Australian hat.


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## Fading Fast

This came today in an email from Kamakura Shirts:


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## drpeter

I was wondering why a Japanese shirtmaker would use artwork featuring two clearly non-Japanese people. So I looked at their website, a very nice one, and the blog from which this art is taken (_Kamakura Shirts A to Z of the Ivy Look_) is written by Graham Marsh. Was it targeted to Japanese readers, or was it targeted to a Western audience?

Marsh says that he first observed the Ivy style of dressing in his American colleagues, alongside whom he worked in the London branch of Marvel Comics. The images he has created fits in well with that background.

I looked at some of the shirts, and they look well-designed. Many of these shirts seem to be available in limited sizes, and several are in just one size. No pink shirts, either -- it is one of my favourite colours. What's exciting for me personally: They have my beloved back button on the collar! I think I'll have to buy a couple of these shirts (very affordable at $99) if I can find my collar size (16). I wonder if they have a branch in the States from where they will ship, or whether one has to wait for shipping from Japan. I'll have to do a search here to see whether other members of AAAC have these shirts and like them.


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## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> This came today in an email from Kamakura Shirts:
> View attachment 54144


Back when I was still working I would occasionally use a collar bar when wearing my suit to work. For it to work right for me could only use a dress shirt I had with long spear point collar.


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## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Back when I was still working I would occasionally use a collar bar when wearing my suit to work. For it to work right for me could only use a dress shirt I had with long spear point collar.


I gave up on the collar bar after several attempts as it always came undone at some point during the day. That's when I move to the collar pin.

The above illustration is confusing, as the title says "collar pin," but the item shown is actually a collar bar.

A bar slips onto the sides of the collar (and, as you note, works better with longer points), but the pin, literally, is a pin that goes through the collar so there's no chance it comes undone during the day.

A typical collar pin:


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## Fading Fast

So, based on our conversation yesterday, I went looking for a collar pin in a cool vintage illustration and found this quirky one of a college kid wearing a collar pin with a button-down collar (and not how Ralph Lauren does it in his ads, this kid has the collar points actually buttoned down):









Have to note, as I always do, I love white bucks with grey dress trousers.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I gave up on the collar bar after several attempts as it always came undone at some point during the day. That's when I move to the collar pin.
> 
> The above illustration is confusing, as the title says "collar pin," but the item shown is actually a collar bar.
> 
> A bar slips onto the sides of the collar (and, as you note, works better with longer points), but the pin, literally, is a pin that goes through the collar so there's no chance it comes undone during the day.
> 
> A typical collar pin:
> 
> View attachment 54155


This one looks identical to a safety pin. I suppose one could use a safety pin of the right size. If you use collar pins regularly on a shirt, will the collar itself suffer some damage eventually?


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> So, based on our conversation yesterday, I went looking for a collar pin in a cool vintage illustration and found this quirky one of a college kid wearing a collar pin with a button-down collar (and not how Ralph Lauren does it in his ads, this kid has the collar points actually buttoned down):
> View attachment 54172
> 
> 
> Have to note, as I always do, I love white bucks with grey dress trousers.


And it is in such small acts of defiance and non-conformity that men find their sartorial individuality -- a button-down collar buttoned down, and a pin.

The late Gianni Agnelli would wear a button-down shirt and tie with a suit, but leave one collar point unbuttoned. Or his wrist watch over his shirt cuff. Amazingly, people noticed all this, perhaps because he was famous, or because he was the head of FIAT.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> This one looks identical to a safety pin. I suppose one could use a safety pin of the right size. If you use collar pins regularly on a shirt, will the collar itself suffer some damage eventually?


You're spot on as the "basic" collar pin does look like a version of the safety pin.

If the collar is not fused, the pin holes all but disappear in the wash.

That said, my experience has been that, even on unfused collars, you can sometimes just see the "old" holes, in good light and looking for them very carefully, which actually helped me to re-use the hole for the pin.

More broadly, I used collar pins a lot and didn't find they created any real problem as, as noted, the holes pretty much disappear (no one looks at a collar IRL close enough to see them) and the shirts would wear out in general before I noticed any damage to the collar from using the pin repeatedly.


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## drpeter

I have only rarely used collar pins. Ages ago, I had a shirt with a club collar sporting two small holes with threaded edges (like a buttonhole) through which a pin could be placed. And when I bought the shirt, a gold-coloured pin came with it. It had two small heads at either end. One of them would unscrew and after you put the pin in, you screwed the head back on. A lot of trouble to take, if you ask me, LOL.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I have only rarely used collar pins. Ages ago, I had a shirt with a club collar sporting two small holes with threaded edges (like a buttonhole) through which a pin could be placed. And when I bought the shirt, a gold-coloured pin came with it. It had two small heads at either end. One of them would unscrew and after you put the pin in, you screwed the head back on. A lot of trouble to take, if you ask me, LOL.


I respect that it is fussy and not for everyone, but I've had a few of those shirts-pins combo over the years and loved them.


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## Oldsarge

If I were to wear a collar pin, I would certainly prefer the pre-holed and screw tip model. Yes, it is perhaps fussy but for those who really dress with care (or used to and want to again) it's but a minor detail. And the devil is in the details.


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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> If I were to wear a collar pin, I would certainly prefer the pre-holed and screw tip model. Yes, it is perhaps fussy but for those who really dress with care (or used to and want to again) it's but a minor detail. And the devil is in the details.


That's the way I did it, as well. The collar pins I wore had squae=re and rounded balls that secured the ends of the pin.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54254


Did you ever own one of those furniture sized, wooden cabinet stereos....that gave way to the component system (s) imported from Southeast Asia...that gave way to a series of Bose Wave Radios, that I perhaps became a bit too enamored with and have now augmented with a 22 speaker, whole house hardwired system, that I have almost no idea how to operate. We bought a model home and it came with the house! Alas, when we ever get around to selling this place, that sound system will be outdated and virtually worthless.

Thanks for the memories!


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## drpeter

I remember in ancient times, we had those giant pieces of furniture with a sound system (turntable, radio etc.) embedded in it. Radiogram was the name given to them, IIRC. In earlier posts, I have detailed the stereos I have, both vintage and modern. It can get to be an obsession. I too have a hard time figuring out all the connections for troubleshooting, but fortunately, everything is working well so far.


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## Fading Fast

Growing up in the '70s, we had one TV (and "added" a '50s B&W TV when my grandmother died) - a big ugly metal thing that sat on a small table in the den as my dad refused to pay for "the fancy cabinetry and an over-priced radio [what the rest of us call a stereo system]."

That TV was one of only two he bought in his life - he died in '92 - as he didn't part with a dollar easily and simply had it fixed each time it broke. It was about 30 years old by then.

But when I finally started to earn an okay living in the '80s, I bought all the cool stereo component stuff and, even, upgraded a few times.

Now, somewhat like Eagle, all I have is a Bose radio in the bedroom and few Sonos speakers in a couple of other rooms.

The sound from the Sonos and Bose are good not great, which would have been completely unacceptable to me twenty years ago, but now I'm just happy to have a simple system that takes up little space and sounds okay.

Sometimes I wish I had a better set up, but for me, the hassle isn't worth it anymore.


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## Tweedlover

For quite some years now my only source of music has been streaming music via the internet. One can find so much music online. I particularly find Spotify quite useful.


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## Oldsarge

I pretty much keep my Sonos tuned to the local classical music station--except for Saturday when they play the Metropolitan Opera. Then I switch to a classical station out of Venice, Italy. Definitely NOT an opera fan. Terrible waste of a glorious human voice.


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## Tweedlover

Oldsarge said:


> I pretty much keep my Sonos tuned to the local classical music station--except for Saturday when they play the Metropolitan Opera. Then I switch to a classical station out of Venice, Italy. Definitely NOT an opera fan. Terrible waste of a glorious human voice.


I listen to chamber music in the morning while sipping very dark roasted coffee and having my morning pipe. Later in the day it's blues or bluegrass.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

And these days, the kids address each other as "bae", short for baby. Why a four-letter word like baby needs to be shortened even further is mystifying.

In some languages, a suffix meaning "little" is added to names. In Dutch _-je _ means little and it is added to names and other nouns as well. _Leun-je, een klein reisje_ ( a little trip). In Spanish, _-ito _or_ ita- _meaning the same thing, is added similarly, for example _Manuelito, colita_ (cola, soft drink). Language is endlessly fascinating.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I think the setting is the Reform Club in London, and the chap in the center is none other than Phileas Fogg IV. As soon as the Club's waiter has taken their orders, Fogg will make a wager with the other three about travelling to the Moon and back in two days, using Sir Richard Branson's Moon Express spaceship. Take that, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos!

The waiter is Detective Fix's great grandson in disguise, and he will arrest Fogg upon his return for crimes as yet unspecified. But the redoubtable Fogg will triumph in the end.

Nice suits, by the way.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

One of my philatelic friends was a TWA pilot for many years, after he took early retirement as a fighter pilot from USAF. I believe TWA had multiple bankruptcies in the nineties and was finally sold to American Airlines in the early 2000s.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> One of my philatelic friends was a TWA pilot for many years, after he took early retirement as a fighter pilot from USAF. I believe TWA had multiple bankruptcies in the nineties and was finally sold to American Airlines in the early 2000s.


Being a pilot must be advantageous to one's stamp-collecting efforts.

A chart showing all the airline mergers, bankruptcies and reorganizations over the past forty years would look quite complicated.


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## drpeter

Yes. My friend Bob Odenweller has travelled to every country in the world, speaks five languages (European ones mostly) and is an authority on the stamps and postal history (* see below) of nineteenth-century Samoa -- he has written the definitive work on the subject, and I had him sign my copy when I took him to dinner at the American Philatelic Society meeting in Milwaukee in 2013. We had a great time, talking about the world that we both had travelled in -- people, countries, and stamps, of course.










Bob was instrumental in serving as my sponsor for my election to membership in the distinguished Collectors Club New York, and the equally honoured Royal Philatelic Society of London. The dinner I gave him at a fine restaurant was a small token of gratitude for all the support he has provided for this humble British Empire collector out here in the hinterland. It is always good to know learned people in any subject. It shows you how much you do not know, LOL. And what a pleasure an education can be.

(*) Postal history is a term of art among philatelists to indicate covers mailed postally, whether with stamps or without them.


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## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54439


Think it was TWA, but unsure. Took my first flight on an old DC 3 when I was a youngin'.


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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge

I think everyone's jealous of his hatband.


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## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> I think everyone's jealous of his hatband.


Also, kinda an interesting suit for patched pockets - no?


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54477





Oldsarge said:


> I think everyone's jealous of his hatband.


........or take a gander at the lathered up and disheveled condition of other gentlemen in the picture and/or looks being directed at him by his fellow male travelers, as they wonder why our sartorial hero is not stewing in his own juices and looking as disheveled as the rest of the commuters getting off that train! Obviously the ladies, both young and old, like a man who's got it all together. LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ........or take a gander at the lathered up and disheveled condition of other gentlemen in the picture and/or looks being directed at him by his fellow male travelers, as they wonder why our sartorial hero is not stewing in his own juices and looking as disheveled as the rest of the commuters getting off that train! Obviously the ladies, both young and old, like a man who's got it all together. LOL.


Great catch. I commuted by train into NYC from NJ for a few years back in the '80s and you are so right as most of us alighting the evening train in the summer looked liked those rumpled guys in the background.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

The men talk animatedly, the woman looks admiringly at one of them, her raised eyes wide. The width of their trousers correspond well to the period, just as they do to the social attitudes and dynamics captured by the men and woman. They say life can imitate art -- perhaps art can imitate sociology too!


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## Charles Dana

eagle2250 said:


> ........or take a gander at the lathered up and disheveled condition of other gentlemen in the picture and/or looks being directed at him by his fellow male travelers, as they wonder why our sartorial hero is not stewing in his own juices and looking as disheveled as the rest of the commuters getting off that train!


Probably an ad for the wonders of Dacron Polyester.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I've always admired the self-confidence of a man who can carry off wearing a red jacket. This one looks like a short mess jacket -- a "monkey jacket" in Indian and British military parlance, not sure if we use that phrase here in the US. If the gentleman were to turn a bit to his right, we just might see medals on the left half of his jacket.


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## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I've always admired the self-confidence of a man who can carry off wearing a red jacket. This one looks like a short mess jacket -- a "monkey jacket" in Indian and British military parlance, not sure if we use that phrase here in the US. If the gentleman were to turn a bit to his right, we just might see medals on the left half of his jacket.


....or given that tray of drinks balanced on his left hand and the folded towel in his right hand, he could be a member of the wait staff...yes, no? Just a thought.


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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> ....or given that tray of drinks balanced on his left hand and the folded towel in his right hand, he could be a member of the wait staff...yes, no? Just a thought.


LOL, you are probably right, Eagle Eyes. I did not look very closely. I thought it was a piece of paper in his hand! But even if he were a waiter, it still exudes _un peu de confiance, n'est-ce pas_?


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## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> LOL, you are probably right, Eagle Eyes. I did not look very closely. I thought it was a piece of paper in his hand! But even if he were a waiter, it still exudes _un peu de confiance, n'est-ce pas_?


....and in keeping with your original assessment, the US Army used to vary the hues designed into the Mess Dress uniforms lapels to indicate what line if work the wearer was involved in. I believe the Canadians and the British wear a solid red Mess Dress jackets. So many of your posts get me to pondering the issues raised and I thank you for that, my friend!


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## ran23

And he I am thinking about a Red Land's End casual jacket on ebay.


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## drpeter

ran23 said:


> And he I am thinking about a Red Land's End casual jacket on ebay.


I say go for it, old boy! When you get it, wear it with aplomb.

Just to be clear, is it a casual outdoor jacket (windcheater, field coat, etc.) or a casual sports jacket?


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## Oldsarge

My full dress uniform (currently hanging in the closet where it will likely stay until it joins me in a pine box) is a mess dress uniform. As an NCO (NATO E-8 or Company Sergeant Major in British parlance) my lapels are the same royal blue as the jacket. Only officers got different colored lapels depending on which branch they were commissioned in.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54629


I've spent 5+ minutes staring at that illustration, trying to figure out what those white, wormy looking things jumping out of that barrel happen to be. Is that supposed to depict water splashing out of the barrel or are those things the baby "shit weasels" Stephen King describes in his novel, Dream Catcher? A troubled mind really wants to know!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I've spent 5+ minutes staring at that illustration, trying to figure out what those white, wormy looking things jumping out of that barrel happen to be. Is that supposed to depict water splashing out of the barrel or are those things the baby "shit weasels" Stephen King describes in his novel, Dream Catcher? A troubled mind really wants to know!


I think they are shredded pieces of newspaper or some type of paper used to pack the dishes as it looks like the couple is unpacking from a move.


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## GRH

Fading Fast said:


> I think they are shredded pieces of newspaper or some type of paper used to pack the dishes as it looks like the couple is unpacking from a move.


Yes, shredded paper, used for packing purposes before the introduction of bubble wrap. Called "excelsior," for some reason. Back when dishes were shipped in barrels. God! I feel old.


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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> My full dress uniform (currently hanging in the closet where it will likely stay until it joins me in a pine box) is a mess dress uniform. As an NCO (NATO E-8 or Company Sergeant Major in British parlance) my lapels are the same royal blue as the jacket. Only officers got different colored lapels depending on which branch they were commissioned in.


In my National Service Unit in India, that was similar to what I was, a Regimental Sergeant Major, and then I finished as Regimental Under-Officer, the highest rank for the NCC.

And Sarge, we should skip the pine box. Let's go for a handsome walnut box with decorations and brass handles. As for me, I would love the so-called Viking funeral with the boat being floated out to sea and the flaming arrow, etc., etc. (But I am told that was all just legend, likely created by Hollywood, the Vikings probably buried or cremated like everyone else).

BTW, speaking of Hollywood, I just read a great line by Harvard astrophysicist Avi Loeb in his new book, _Extraterrestrial_: The laws of physics have been violated only in two places: singularities (in deep space) and Hollywood.

Loeb has come out with a book on the object that came into our solar system from interstellar space in 2017 -- very intriguing and controversial in terms if its meaning. Loeb thinks that it was not an asteroid or a bit of rock, but something created by another civilization -- it could even be debris from a spaceship. Fascinating stuff.


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## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54629


Remember that beer from my youth.


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## Oldsarge

GRH said:


> Yes, shredded paper, used for packing purposes before the introduction of bubble wrap. Called "excelsior," for some reason. Back when dishes were shipped in barrels. God! I feel old.


And before shredded paper, excelsior was shredded wood. When I was on Active Duty, we shipped home some Rosenthal crystal and der Post packed them in wooden excelsior. I don't know if that's old fashioned but it worked. Not a stem broke.


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## ran23

drpeter said:


> I say go for it, old boy! When you get it, wear it with aplomb.
> 
> Just to be clear, is it a casual outdoor jacket (windcheater, field coat, etc.) or a casual sports jacket?


I think they are squall jackets, I have one in light blue. Navy or Red next.


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## drpeter

Ah. Sounds good.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I think they are shredded pieces of newspaper or some type of paper used to pack the dishes as it looks like the couple is unpacking from a move.


Thanks much...I'll be able to relax and get some sleep now! LOL. On closer look, I see a plate edge sticking up out of the packing material.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54679


Great illustration. I suppose that a case could be made that I've had a touch of crazy in me pretty much all of my life. The photo above reminds me of the years I was working out of the Federal Building in downtown Chicago. On those days it happened to be raining during the lunch hour, I would happily go out walking in the rain, window shopping, while function testing my Trench Coat(s) and Stetson Temple Hats. The coats generally performed acceptably well, but the Temple Hats , not so well...LOL!  Thanks for the memories.


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## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54679


I do own a tan trench coat, but the fedora I wore with it is tan not brown and never wear a felt fedora in the rain.


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## GRH

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54679


Flashback: The cover of a children's "Dragnet" book I read, to the clickety-clack of the rails, on the dusty maroon plush seats of the old "Pennsylvanian." No wonder I always yearned for a Burberry.


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## Fading Fast

My guess, 1920s, but a heck of a cool illustration.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54696
> 
> My guess, 1920s, but a heck of a cool illustration.


The image above is a great illustration....look at the fabric pattern on that couch. I've seen it in a few friends homes, but jeez Louise, I hope that doesn't mean I'm all that old! LOL. On a more serious note, consider the collar on the guys shirt...is it a collar or a medieval sartorial torture device? :icon_scratch:


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## drpeter

LOL, that collar might be a sartorial signal that said person is into a certain subculture...


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Very clever. Using the monochrome approach, especially shades of bluish grey, paired with white and a single pop of colour, red (the greyscale is actually achromatic) to achieve a pleasing overall effect is a good skill to have for an effective dresser.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54728


An interesting illustration that sends competing messages. Is it the style that grabs one's attention or is it the cloaking effect of the man's face, the full smile corrupted by the impish grin; that suggests the imminent appearance of Jim Carrey's version of thew jaundice hued "The Mask?" LOL.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Very clever. Using the monochrome approach, especially shades of bluish grey, paired with white and a single pop of colour, red (the greyscale is actually achromatic) to achieve a pleasing overall effect is a good skill to have for an effective dresser.


I'm a fan of the monochromatic approach (not everyday) and noticed it too. While the red tie provides a pop of contrast (as you also noted), a medium-to-dark blue tie would have kept the monochromatic vibe going, but still provided some contrast in a quieter way. I don't know if it would have worked - it's one you'd have to see to decide.



eagle2250 said:


> An interesting illustration that sends competing messages. Is it the style that grabs one's attention or is it the cloaking effect of the man's face, the full smile corrupted by the impish grin; that suggests the imminent appearance of Jim Carrey's version of thew jaundice hued "The Mask?" LOL.


Good call re Carrey. I didn't make the connection until you pointed it out, but it's obvious now.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

A faint of echo of an earlier style in artwork -- something in the drawing resonates in my mind with the old Art Deco travel posters about exotic places. I may be off, but the lines and colours seem just a little like those old images.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54741


Ahhhh. New love, discovered on a rainy afternoon! Proof that even something as mundane as an umbrella can serve as a 'make-do' aphrodisiac. A reminder that when life serves one lemons, we should attempt lemonade.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> A faint of echo of an earlier style in artwork -- something in the drawing resonates in my mind with the old Art Deco travel posters about exotic places. I may be off, but the lines and colours seem just a little like those old images.


I felt it was an interesting "bridge" style between the Art Deco you note and the more modern '60s style of illustration that was to come. I feel both styles in it: he's more deco '30s, she's more '60s mod as is the "watercolored" background.



eagle2250 said:


> Ahhhh. New love, discovered on a rainy afternoon! Proof that even something as mundane as an umbrella can serve as a 'make-do' aphrodisiac. A reminder that when life serves one lemons, we should attempt lemonade.


*



*


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Ahhhh. New love, discovered on a rainy afternoon! Proof that even something as mundane as an umbrella can serve as a 'make-do' aphrodisiac. A reminder that when life serves one lemons, we should attempt lemonade.


Perhaps it is Poseidon or Neptune in a raincoat, disguised as a mere mortal, come to pick up a nymph for his underwater palace...


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## Fading Fast

Note the flap on the breast pocket, it's like Ralph Lauren does on his Polo coats.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

⇧ Just realized I put this Ralph pic in the wrong thread. Oops, stupid me.

So, how 'bout an actual illustration for today.









(I was surprised the cool Polo coat illustration from yesterday didn't get more comments. I thought it was a cool ad for a cool coat and the swatch of material was neat to see. Also, loved the collar pin and '60's skinny tie.)


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

The crew neck has a rectangular front rather than a rounded one. I don't think I have seen a sweater with a neck quite like that.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54786


I like the sweaters, but they need to be careful with those fly-away shirt collars...a careless turn of the head and they could easily cut their own throats! LOL. :crazy:


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The crew neck has a rectangular front rather than a rounded one. I don't think I have seen a sweater with a neck quite like that.


My first thought was it's a regular rounded crew neck that just rumpled a bit to look square, but maybe you're right - hard, for me anyway, to tell. If it's square, that is something I don't remember having seen before.



eagle2250 said:


> I like the sweaters, but they need to be careful with those fly-away shirt collars...a careless turn of the head and they could easily cut their own throats! LOL. :crazy:


That felt like an early example of all the collar popping and other silliness (like when we see a shirt-collar's points peeking out of a turtleneck - as we've shown in the Ralph thread) that shows up in modern fashion ads.


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## drpeter

@Fading Fast , I was looking at the four stacks of sweaters at the bottom of the advert, just above the big "McGregor" brand name. Comparing the V necks with the others, one can see a distinct rectangular shape for the neck opening.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> @Fading Fast , I was looking at the four stacks of sweaters at the bottom of the advert, just above the big "McGregor" brand name. Comparing the V necks with the others, one can see a distinct rectangular shape for the neck opening.


Good catch. You are spot on, that is a rectangularly shaped collar. As we know now, that style never took off - thankfully.


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## Tweedlover

Being a pipe smoker, I noticed the fair number of times pipes show up in these old adds.


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## Oldsarge

I would be a pipe smoker but all the ladies in my life have had an aversion to tobacco. And given a choice between a pipe and feminine company . . .


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> I would be a pipe smoker but all the ladies in my life have had an aversion to tobacco. And given a choice between a pipe and feminine company . . .


Good choice.....and a healthy one as well! However, as I recall my old high school wrestling coach told us "the ladies" would drain us of our precious bodily fluids, reminiscent of the opinion expressed by General Jack Ripper in the movie "Dr. Strangelove." LOL.


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## Tweedlover

At one time, we lived somewhere that had an outdoors clothesline and my wife wanted to use it. Told her fine, but don't hang my undies in public.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54869


Designs that eased the transition from a military uniform to a civilian uniform! Now that's the way civilians should dress....at least some of the time. LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Designs that eased the transition from a military uniform to a civilian uniform! Now that's the way civilians should dress....at least some of the time. LOL.


Growing up in the '70s, for lots of jobs - delivery guys, repair guys, taxi-drivers, gas-station attendants, even movie theater ushers - about half the workers still wore uniforms. It wasn't consistent any more, but still, plenty of workers were wearing very military-inspired looking uniforms even into the '80s.


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## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54869


When I was young and not long married, my bride really liked it when I wore overalls. It was the 70's for one thing, and she liked how easy it was to slip her hands inside when both of mine were occupied. Ah, to be young and frisky . . .


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54920


While I cannot claim to have ever worn a Speedo jacket, I do so like that grey zippered cardigan design. Is that illustration promoting the same company that brought us those 'Oh-so-popular' second skin swim trunks. Rumor has it that many, many years ago a gal pal of mine gifted me with a pair that I never had the nerve to put on! These days it would take a pair of oversized Granny panties to cover my nether region(s)! LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge




----------



## Peak and Pine

^^^

Very good, @Oldsarge . A favorite, by Landecker (Leyendecker). But it's only half a picture. Here's the other half....









Reversed, it happens to be Flanderian's avatar (what's happened to him?). Put the two together for the original...


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## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54946


One of my topcoats has a collar like that, though the coat, (and collar), are medium gray with thin red windowpaning.


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## Oldsarge




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## Fading Fast

⇧ Those Fellows illustrations from Esquire and Apparel Arts are fantastic.


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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 55031


This looks identical to a camel polo coat I picked up this past Fall, except for the ticket pocket, which mine did not have. Nevertheless, a classic look and cut, and very,very comfortable. I find DB overcoats to be really nice and warm in our northern winters up here in the Badger State!

I usually team up such coats with a scarf in maroon, or blue/red and white polka dot, or tartan of any kind, for that nice pop of colour and pattern to be framed against the expanse of beige. The ensemble would look crisp, understated, and quite elegant.


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## drpeter

Wonder what a "power shoulder" shirt looks like -- the shirt here in the image is folded, so one can't quite tell.


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## Fading Fast

From a Kamakura Shirt email the other day.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55220


Van Heusen shirts were/are arguably a financially painless purchase, but still, those are pretty fancy duds for the gridiron!


----------



## poppies

I always wondered about the evolution of the term "oxford" to basically mean anything "dress."


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## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55220


Now the waist line on those dress pants is where it ought to be.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55267


In the second picture (top right), there is a large white patch, in a tear-drop shape, on the lapel of the chap in the blue suit. Is it an enormous raindrop falling in the foreground, perhaps?


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> In the second picture (top right), there is a large white patch, in a tear-drop shape, on the lapel of the chap in the blue suit. Is it an enormous raindrop falling in the foreground, perhaps?


I have no idea and meant to ask about it yesterday, but had a crazy busy day and forgot.

Hopefully, someone here will know what it is?


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> Hopefully, someone here will know what it is?


I be someone.
Squint. You'll see a second one on the other side of the neck. A dark bungee type cord holds them together. They're small sand bags, probably leather, used as ballast when riding in small planes of that era, if your actual weight was not enough to balance your side.


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## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> I be someone.
> Squint. You'll see a second one on the other side of the neck. A dark bungee type cord holds them together. They're small sand bags, probably leather, used as ballast when riding in small planes of that era, if your actual weight was not enough to balance your side.


Amazing, Peaks! You know, I considered the possibility that it might be a bag of some sort, but dismissed it because I could not think of a context in which that might be worn by someone deplaning in a suit and tie. Very astute. I'll recommend that you be appointed aviation consultant to AAAC.


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## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> I be someone.
> Squint. You'll see a second one on the other side of the neck. A dark bungee type cord holds them together. They're small sand bags, probably leather, used as ballast when riding in small planes of that era, if your actual weight was not enough to balance your side.


People actually did that? It's certainly logical, given the kites that passed as aircraft in that era, but I'm surprised.


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## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Amazing, Peaks! You know, I considered the possibility that it might be a bag of some sort, but dismissed it because I could not think of a context in which that might be worn by someone deplaning in a suit and tie. Very astute. I'll recommend that you be appointed aviation consultant to AAAC.


Second the motion.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

My guess, '20s or '30s:


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## drpeter

I've recently added two pairs of HS&M slacks to my wardrobe. They are well-made and comfortable.


----------



## Tweedlover

drpeter said:


> I've recently added two pairs of HS&M slacks to my wardrobe. They are well-made and comfortable.


Are they still around? Had 2 HS&M sports coats, 1 of which I still own.


----------



## drpeter

I imagine so.



I too have a few sport coats by them. And I think I still have a dinner suit/tuxedo by them bought long ago on some sale at a men's shop.


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## Oldsarge

Tweedlover said:


> Are they still around? Had 2 HS&M sports coats, 1 of which I still own.


They seem to be a Nordstrom essential.


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## Fading Fast




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## Gimlet321

Oldsarge said:


> They seem to be a Nordstrom essential.


They're alive and well at my local Dillard's.


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## eagle2250

Tweedlover said:


> Are they still around? Had 2 HS&M sports coats, 1 of which I still own.


Yup!


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

They really loved large lapels in those days, didn't they?


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> They really loved large lapels in those days, didn't they?


Yes, but they also loved diversity as you can see in model #934 in the background left.

I'm guessing this was from the '30s or '40s as, in the '30s in particular (which carried into the '40s somewhat), there was a wide variety of styles in circulation at one time.

You'll see wide and not-wide lapels, single- and double-breasted suits, one-, two- and three-button jackets, every type of shirt collar possible and all sorts of patterns and colors in that period. It was, IMO, the decade (or two) that had the most variety in men's clothing within the basic shirt-tie-suit construct.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Yes, but they also loved diversity as you can see in model #934 in the background left.


Jeepers! For a second, I thought I had somehow missed the dashing young African-American model wearing a polo coat...

I agree, the 30s and 40s saw a lot of interesting experimentation with styles and variations. My father had a small collection of ties he acquired then which had some extraordinary patterns -- I particularly liked the flowered silk ties he wore (almost four inches in the blade part!). The silk was dark coloured, and the flowered patterns were embroidered, I think, with a brighter gold thread. I was a small boy in the fifties and these ties were still around then in his wardrobe.


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## Oldsarge

That sounds like some of the ties my grandfather wore. He was the family "dapperist" in contrast to my father who was very utilitarian in his suits and ties. Grandpa had four inch ties in Hawai'ian print with pin-ups on the lining. :laughing:


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## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> That sounds like some of the ties my grandfather wore. He was the family "dapperist" in contrast to my father who was very utilitarian in his suits and ties. Grandpa had four inch ties in Hawai'ian print with pin-ups on the lining. :laughing:


Oh Sarge, I just picked up a tie like that at Goodwill for two bucks. It looks very proper on the outside, a challis with a tiny neat pattern. But look at the tip of the blade inside and open out the flaps, and there's a well-endowed blonde wearing nothing but a big grin. Perfect for certain Christmas parties that some of my aging reprobate friends hold, sneaking away from their wives for a night out with the lads...


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## Oldsarge

If I were to dig through my necktie collection (which I haven't since the pandemic began) I suspect that I might find two or three like that myself. I was always careful not to wear them on Sunday morning.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55548


Who among us seasoned road warriors has not witnessed fellow, mostly male travelers, board the aircraft carrying a grip bag and a huge set of golf clubs? Based on the dating of this truly enjoyable illustration, it appears that such has been a long time tradition, LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Who among us seasoned road warriors has not witnessed fellow, mostly male travelers, board the aircraft carrying a grip bag and a huge set of golf clubs? Based on the dating of this truly enjoyable illustration, it appears that such has been a long time tradition, LOL.


Not counting a few games a miniature golf decades ago, I have never even held a golf club in my hands, but when I see someone traveling with a huge bag of clubs (you're spot on), I always wonder if renting the clubs wouldn't be a better option. However, my golfer friends tell me how important it is to have "their"clubs to play with (yet they all also almost always seem to be mad at their own play).


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55619


Admiring the illustration, but I'm not sure which manufacturers suits I am admiring.


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## drpeter

At first I thought it might be Jesus on the wall or column in the background. On closer inspection, it looks more like Yul Brunner as the Pharaoh. Maybe it is a landmark in New York City -- I was fairly familiar with the City ages ago, but I don't think I remember seeing anything remotely like that figure.


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## GRH

drpeter said:


> At first I thought it might be Jesus on the wall or column in the background. On closer inspection, it looks more like Yul Brunner as the Pharaoh. Maybe it is a landmark in New York City -- I was fairly familiar with the City ages ago, but I don't think I remember seeing anything remotely like that figure.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(statue)


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55682


Is that a velvet collar on a Herringbone Tweed? If so, it seems an interesting, but odd combination. :icon_scratch:


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## drpeter

GRH said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(statue)
> View attachment 55684


Ah, thank you GRH -- it is Atlas holding up the celestial vault. I checked on this and Google tells me it is in the Rockefeller Center, across the street from St Patrick's Cathedral. My aging memory must have forgotten this detail!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Is that a velvet collar on a Herringbone Tweed? If so, it seems an interesting, but odd combination. :icon_scratch:


I think the illustrator was going for a Chesterfield, but the scale of the herringbone is too big and pronounced.


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## Tweedlover

Love fedoras with topcoats and a number of other coats as well. In real life, the only person I've seen wear one, however, is me. Would often get compliments when I wore one, though.


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## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Ah, thank you GRH -- it is Atlas holding up the celestial vault. I checked on this and Google tells me it is in the Rockefeller Center, across the street from St Patrick's Cathedral. My aging memory must have forgotten this detail!


As we age that "forgetting thing" occurs with increasing regularity! Egad. :crazy:


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## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> As we age that "forgetting thing" occurs with increasing regularity! Egad. :crazy:


Israeli research published in the periodical _Aging_ indicates that 45 minutes a day in a hyperbaric chamber, five days a week for three months does wonders for that. I saving up for one. Cheap they ain't.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55770


Now who among us wouldn't love the half belted back and the bi-swing shoulders on those suits. Sign me up for one or two.


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## drpeter

Those were the days when wide shoulders and a "bladed" back were _de rigueur_ for a man. Especially with DB suits. I have some vintage DB jackets and blazers that capture the look. I only have one belted-back jacket, and perhaps two with bi-swing shoulders -- both from Orvis, who had a fondness for that style.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

The fine art of rolling a lapel is evident in this image. It is hard to get dry cleaners to do this when they are pressing your suits or sports jackets. I finally managed to get mine to roll lapels properly, rather than flatten them out.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55792


Interesting illustration, but I am left wondering...are they selling a suit or a new TV screen? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Interesting illustration, but I am left wondering...are they selling a suit or a new TV screen? :icon_scratch:


The pic didn't say anything more than what I posted, but it felt more TV than suit ad to me as, as you imply, the thing that catches your eye is how the screen improves the picture.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55956


Brooks Brothers made button down collars on men's shirts fashionable way back in 1896. The shirst pictured above are handsome, but would look so much more so with button down collars! Just sayin.....


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Brooks Brothers made button down collars on men's shirts fashionable way back in 1896. The shirst pictured above are handsome, but would look so much more so with button down collars! Just sayin.....


Button-down collars were originally functional (polo players' long collars not flapping up and blinding a player to the ball flying towards your face, etc.) just like the buttons on the back of tailcoats, which were used to button the tails folded up when one mounted a horse. Or buttons on the sleeves of sport and suit coats. Then all of these became vestigial and aesthetic!

Just thinkin'... (LOL, maybe this phrase will catch on and be widely used).


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

There must be an interesting and deep psychology behind the urge to have pajamas that look like slacks. 

Is it because one can spring out of bed, and into action, looking dressed? Is it a fear of being caught with one's pants down in the middle of the night? Is it a desire to go to sleep, all of a sudden, on the beach or in the garden?

Maybe it's just good old American ingenuity.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> There must be an interesting and deep psychology behind the urge to have pajamas that look like slacks.
> 
> Is it because one can spring out of bed, and into action, looking dressed? Is it a fear of being caught with one's pants down in the middle of the night? Is it a desire to go to sleep, all of a sudden, on the beach or in the garden?
> 
> Maybe it's just good old American ingenuity.


I wondered about this too. Clearly it didn't take off. But based on my pre-Covid trips through the airport (and even local stores in my neighborhood), some people solved this problem from the reverse angle: they now wear their pajamas in public.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55995


I sure wish I had been wearing a pair of those fancy jams that look like dress pants the other morning when I took several bills out to the mailbox, still wearing my Little Lord Faunteroy shorty pj's, and a neighbor shouted..."How ya doing, neighbor!" LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I'd love to have a pair of those flannel slacks (or any vintage slacks) with a back strap. They are hard to find these days.


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## drpeter

This is actually from the late twenties and not from the fifties, but I like the images:


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## Fading Fast

@iam.mike,

Hi, prompted by @drpeter's comment above, I'd like to put in a long-overdue request to update the title of this thread to better reflect how it has evolved over time.

We now seem to use it as a thread for clothing illustrations from, or redolent of, the '20s - '60s.

So perhaps, using the KISS method, we could re-title it to:

*Clothing Illustrations From or Inspired by the '20s to the '60s*

Just a thought.

Thank you,

Mark


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> @iam.mike,
> 
> Hi, prompted by @drpeter's comment above, I'd like to put in a long-overdue request to update the title of this thread to better reflect how it has evolved over time.
> 
> We now seem to use it as a thread for clothing illustrations from, or redolent of, the '20s - '60s.
> 
> So perhaps, using the KISS method, we could re-title it to:
> 
> *Clothing Illustrations From or Inspired by the '20s to the '60s*
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Mark


Thanks for the suggestion, Mark (if I may call you that ). I agree with the new title.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56255


I find myself confused by the ad's claim that "Jantzen Sportswear is obtainable only from retail stores." Admittedly what I am about to say is almost two decade old information, but if my memory is serving me well this AM, Jantzen had a factory store in Michigan City, Indiana. The prices were right and over time I did buy several pairs of trousers and a sweater or two from them. However, the most vivid memory I have of the store is the heavy nose of stale cigarette smoke in the store and more importantly, in the clothes. I never saw anyone ever smoking in the store, I think because it was prohibited, but suspect the clerks did so when customers were not present. I never bought a garment from that store that didn't go to the dry cleaners before I wore them!


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## drpeter

The shoulders are far too wide and exaggerated for my taste. But I believe this was the fashion in those days.


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## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> The shoulders are far too wide and exaggerated for my taste. But I believe this was the fashion in those days.


No, nobody ever dressed like tbat anywhere ever. Two-by-for shoulders and wasp waists? (Discounting Hispanic kids in LA who tried a similar crazy silhouette with the short-lived zoot suit.) Here in this white bread ad it appears one guy did the figures, poorly, then called in the hand guy to paint veiny, wrinkly hands on 40 year-olds, then called up the background guy to fill in totally inappropriate backgrounds, in this case skiiers getting off a train. My favorite in this series is from a few days back where the background showed a long distance bus with the obligatory Black porter helping the Whities on and off. These are p**s poor ads and whatever company they represent has probably long since bellied up. Deservedly so.


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## GRH

Peak and Pine said:


> No, nobody ever dressed like tbat anywhere ever. Two-by-for shoulders and wasp waists? (Discounting Hispanic kids in LA who tried a similar crazy silhouette with the short-lived zoot suit.) Here in this white bread ad it appears one guy did the figures, poorly, then called in the hand guy to paint veiny, wrinkly hands on 40 year-olds, then called up the background guy to fill in totally inappropriate backgrounds, in this case skiiers getting off a train. My favorite in this series is from a few days back where the background showed a long distance bus with the obligatory Black porter helping the Whities on and off. These are p**s poor ads and whatever company they represent has probably long since bellied up. Deservedly so.


"... paint veiny, wrinkly hands ..."
In defense of the illustrator, those seem to be gloves, old sport.


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## Peak and Pine

GRH said:


> "... paint veiny, wrinkly hands ..."
> In defense of the illustrator, those seem to be gloves, old sport.


Nah, I sent that down to Quality Control before I posted. I can see boney fingers, finger nails and one guy is smoking, which I used to do, but never in gloved hands.


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## iam.mike

@Fading Fast @drpeter - your wish/request has been granted 

(sorry for the delayed reply)


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## Fading Fast

iam.mike said:


> @Fading Fast @drpeter - your wish/request has been granted
> 
> (sorry for the delayed reply)


Thank you sir.


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## drpeter

iam.mike said:


> @Fading Fast @drpeter - your wish/request has been granted
> 
> (sorry for the delayed reply)


Thanks very much indeed.


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## 215339

Not sure where to post this, so here it is. From a blog post "Tailoring for younger guys"

https://dieworkwear.com/2018/12/13/tailoring-for-younger-guys/


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## Fading Fast

This illustration of Sinatra (which we might have seen before - it looks familiar) came in a recent email from Kamakura Shirts:


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## drpeter

@delicious_scent , excellent article from die workwear. I enjoyed reading about Ben and Jerry, er, Dick, I mean. Most of the points they make about fifties and sixties clothing are well taken. I like their support of thrifting as well -- a great way to experiment without committing massive sums to clothes that may or may not work out!


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## 215339

drpeter said:


> @delicious_scent , excellent article from die workwear. I enjoyed reading about Ben and Jerry, er, Dick, I mean. Most of the points they make about fifties and sixties clothing are well taken. I like their support of thrifting as well -- a great way to experiment without committing massive sums to clothes that may or may not work out!


Glad you enjoyed it Dr. Peter.

I love how fun and approachable they make prep and trad look, and I think that's the goal.

One conclusion I've reached recently is that most sleek shoes don't work that well in my wardrobe and are a bit overrated.

I started off buying chunky footwear, bought a couple sleek pairs, and now I'm back where I started.


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## drpeter

I have a good mix of shoes -- but then, I have dozens of pairs, both brand new from the best makers, and thrifted from all sorts of makers, including some of the best. It is amazing what one can find out there, provided one is diligent and patient.


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## 215339

drpeter said:


> I have a good mix of shoes -- but then, I have dozens of pairs, both brand new from the best makers, and thrifted from all sorts of makers, including some of the best. It is amazing what one can find out there, provided one is diligent and patient.


Ah, interesting. I almost dipped my toes into finding vintage shoes online, but the effort didn't seem worth it for myself.

I've mostly settled at my 6ish pairs of shoes, but due to sizing issues. My right foot is much wider and voluminous than my left. I have to mangle my pairs with a shoe stretcher to make things comfortable.

I've noticed both my feet seem to be getting bigger overall, so the "buy it for life!" thing has felt like a marketing sham.

One day I might spring for some bespoke shoes, but only if my feet ever stabilize.


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## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> Ah, interesting. I almost dipped my toes into finding vintage shoes online, but the effort didn't seem worth it for myself.
> 
> I've mostly settled at my 6ish pairs of shoes, but due to sizing issues. My right foot is much wider and voluminous than my left. I have to mangle my pairs with a shoe stretcher to make things comfortable.
> 
> I've noticed both my feet seem to be getting bigger overall, so the "buy it for life!" thing has felt like a marketing sham.
> 
> One day I might spring for some bespoke shoes, but only if my feet ever stabilize.


I've never owned bespoke shoes (although I did have leather sandals made for me ages ago to my design specs). I think if you wear a pair regularly, the leather will stretch to accomodate the size increase. Our feet naturally increase in size over the years, long into adulthood. I think my own feet went from an 8 to a 9.5 over 50 years or so. And the makers of bespoke shoes can adjust them over their lifetime, or so I have heard. Perhaps someone here who has bespoke footwear can comment on this issue.


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## 215339

drpeter said:


> I've never owned bespoke shoes (although I did have leather sandals made for me ages ago to my design specs). *I think if you wear a pair regularly, the leather will stretch to accomodate the size increase.* Our feet naturally increase in size over the years, long into adulthood. I think my own feet went from an 8 to a 9.5 over 50 years or so. And the makers of bespoke shoes can adjust them over their lifetime, or so I have heard. Perhaps someone here who has bespoke footwear can comment on this issue.


Bolded has mainly lead to painful feet for me, hence shoe stretcher. No regrets on that one though, it has made lots of shoes more comfortable for me.

As far as I know, you can stretch shoes up to a point in width, but not length.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Nah, I sent that down to Quality Control before I posted. I can see boney fingers, finger nails and one guy is smoking, which I used to do, but never in gloved hands.


Interesting: Not sure if you or @GRH noticed, but the chap on the left in the picture appears to be holding a glove in his left hand. Not sure if that says anything one way or the other in the "hand vs glove" discussion.


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## eagle2250

delicious_scent said:


> Glad you enjoyed it Dr. Peter.
> 
> I love how fun and approachable they make prep and trad look, and I think that's the goal.
> 
> One conclusion I've reached recently is that most sleek shoes don't work that well in my wardrobe and are a bit overrated.
> 
> I started off buying chunky footwear, bought a couple sleek pairs, and now I'm back where I started.


I feel your pain, my friend. Even with the many, many pairs of shoes I have culled from the collection and passed on over the past several years, I still have a lot of shoes/boots that see virtually no wear time (worn perhaps one or two times in a year), while a bakers dozen pair of Alden's, Lucchese's, Quoddy Trails and Rancourts get all the wear time. The easiest way to handle this dilemma is to simply consider it a cycle of life and accept it! LOL.


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## Vecchio Vespa

delicious_scent said:


> Not sure where to post this, so here it is. From a blog post "Tailoring for younger guys"
> 
> https://dieworkwear.com/2018/12/13/tailoring-for-younger-guys/


That was a wonderful article, and frankly the iPhone photography at the end was better put together than most PRL ads. I love those guys' style, even the tie dyed pants. The brown 3/2 suit with the white pocket square, crested tie, and Weejuns was like a time machine to 1965, and the ubiquitous white socks were just plain fun, setting the Wayback machine for the late fifties and early sixties. Thanks!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56419


That Herringbone weave jacket is such a handsome Tweed.... it seems a pity that those nefarious young women insist on undressing that poor, young, innocent with their 'hungry' eyes! Mamas, it's a cruel world out there..."don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys" or the boy toys of nefarious young females! LOL.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> That Herringbone weave jacket is such a handsome Tweed.... it seems a pity that those nefarious young women insist on undressing that poor, young, innocent with their 'hungry' eyes! Mamas, it's a cruel world out there..."don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys" or the boy toys of nefarious young females! LOL.


Funny, I thought about cross-posting it in the Tweed thread. I've mentioned it before, but it is amazing how popular a pattern herringbone was from the '30s-'60s. You almost can't watch a movie from that era without running into it on several men. I, too, was uncomfortable with how the women were objectifying that man - he has brains, feelings, emotions; he's a full person; he's not just a play thing for women.


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## Oldsarge

Females of many ages can get nefarious with me. Just sayin'.


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## drpeter

I agree with Sarge. I love being objectified now and then, LOL.

Moreover, the looks on the faces of those women weren't objectifying, they were _adoring_. How could it be otherwise, at the peak of masculine domination, mid-century? Women were always hoping to attract the attention of a suitable partner who would be a loving provider and help her to raise a family. It was later that their (and men's) consciousness was raised. By that time everyone was into long hair, flowers, bra-burning and tie-dyed ensembles.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> I agree with Sarge. I love being objectified now and then, LOL.
> 
> Moreover, the looks on the faces of those women weren't objectifying, they were _adoring_. How could it be otherwise, at the peak of masculine domination, mid-century? Women were always hoping to attract the attention of a suitable partner who would be a loving provider and help her to raise a family. It was later that their (and men's) consciousness was raised. By that time everyone was into long hair,flowers, bra-burning and tie-dyed ensembles.


Was there then. The day I was transferred from Ft. Ord to Presidio San Francisco was a revelation. It was SF's normal cloudy chill and the fashion of the moment was braless tight sweaters. I was a geographical widower (the wife was still in school) and 24 years old. Wow!


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Chest sizes from 33 to 38 inches? Hard to believe these are college men. Or perhaps these adverts are from a time when Americans were much smaller.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Chest sizes from 33 to 38 inches? Hard to believe these are college men. Or perhaps these adverts are from a time when Americans were much smaller.


Agreed, that caught my attention too. Americans were smaller overall back then, but that can't explain it all. Could it be an ad for high school kids?


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## drpeter

I thought of that possibility, but their faces struck me as a bit too mature for the high school age group. But you could be right, it is hard to tell. The legend below the images with words like Fraternity Prep and Young Businessmen might suggest otherwise.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed, that caught my attention too. Americans were smaller overall back then, but that can't explain it all. Could it be an ad for high school kids?





drpeter said:


> I thought of that possibility, but their faces struck me as a bit too mature for the high school age group. But you could be right, it is hard to tell. The legend below the images with words like Fraternity Prep and Young Businessmen might suggest otherwise.


Being a contrarian here...I think those ads are targeted for college age men and the reason we herein cannot see that is that so many of us are so far beyond that age, we just can't remember how young we may have looked at that age! As Cormac McCarthy tried to tell us..."This is no country for old men."


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## drpeter

Very true, Eagle. When I taught at my university, each year, I felt the new freshmen and freshwomen were getting younger and younger. Of course, I knew they were mostly around 18 years of age, but I was getting older and older, LOL.

BTW, I love Cormac McCarthy's wonderful, poetic writing, but that great title was borrowed from Yeats' famous poem _Sailing to Byzantium_. Nothing wrong with that, it is quite common. And that's a terrific poem too from which phrases have been lifted, interestingly enough, for book titles. For instance, Philip Roth's _The Dying Animal_. The other great Yeats poem, _The Second Coming_, has also been the source of book titles: _Slouching Towards Bethlehem _(Joan Didion) _Things Fall Apart_ (Chinua Achebe).

And now I have to go look for my Captive Bolt pistol -- where did I leave it? Maybe the Coen Brothers lifted it from me...


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## 215339

eagle2250 said:


> I feel your pain, my friend. Even with the many, many pairs of shoes I have culled from the collection and passed on over the past several years, I still have a lot of shoes/boots that see virtually no wear time (worn perhaps one or two times in a year), while a bakers dozen pair of Alden's, Lucchese's, Quoddy Trails and Rancourts get all the wear time. The easiest way to handle this dilemma is to simply consider it a cycle of life and accept it! LOL.


 Good advice eagle. It's part of the fun and discovery of one's sense of style.

My current dilemma is trying to find a pair of tassel loafers that won't murder my feet.


TKI67 said:


> That was a wonderful article, and frankly the iPhone photography at the end was better put together than most PRL ads. I love those guys' style, even the tie dyed pants. The brown 3/2 suit with the white pocket square, crested tie, and Weejuns was like a time machine to 1965, and the ubiquitous white socks were just plain fun, setting the Wayback machine for the late fifties and early sixties. Thanks!


Glad you enjoyed it TK.

I admit it adds a cool factor for me to know that this has a bit of 'authenticity' to it, because I can see myself wearing a lot of the outfits today.

It has me wanting a dark, subdued madras jacket and some fair isle sweaters. Ahem, and another raglan coat.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

I can't help but notice the implications of the first sentence in this advert: That for people, as for products, _good taste is largely a matter of heritage_. It is a surprising statement to make in America, where people invent and reinvent lives, where they come to abandon a first life elsewhere, one that may not have worked out well for all sorts of reasons. Contrary to Fitzgerald's famous dictum, there _are_ second acts in American lives.

In this country, of all places, it should be clear that good taste is not simply a matter of heritage, of background and family history. That may have been true in the old countries with all the distinctions of class and caste. But of all the things that could be driven by social class, or family history, isn't good taste the one thing that actually _can_ be cultivated?

I spent my career teaching what good taste is in all sorts of things related to what some might call the life of the mind. To recognize good poetry or fiction, good cinema, good art or opera, even good theory and experiment in science or a good proof in mathematics -- all of these are conditional on the development of good taste, and the way to that good taste is emphatically through learning and study, not through the possession of heritage, or pedigree over which one has no control -- none of us chose our parents or families or ancestry. Those were all the accidents of birth.

Imagine being born with a good taste for bourbon or scotch, handed down to one through the exclusive mechanisms of heritage! If one sips enough of an Islay malt, say Laphroaig or Lagavulin (or even those nameless malts that Scottish tavern-keepers store in stone jars in a back room, which they will pour for you if they like the cut of your jib) one can begin to develop a taste for the stuff. And one can also learn the regional differences, say between Islay and Speyside malts. A lot of people, on first sipping a single malt, will wrinkle their noses and say it tastes too smoky, that it's awful! It's a cultivated taste, and the operative word here is _cultivated_. It can be learned, if you wish. It is not something that your heritage bequeaths to you as part of some exclusive patrimony.

I knew absolutely nothing about bourbon until I went to Michigan to do a postdoc with a great mentor, who not only worked with me on experiments in cognitive psychology, but also on the different qualities of the great whiskies of Kentucky and Tennessee. He was from Georgia, and a fancier of Kentucky bourbons and of Tennessee whiskey, if that's the right phrase. He taught me, a fellow from the other side of the world, about things like the fine differences between Dickel No. 8 and Dickel No. 12. So I began to develop a taste in these whiskies. But these days, I drink tea, and that too is a complex beverage where taste is something that develops over time.


----------



## Fading Fast

In the 1800s, most Americans were farmers, so who had time for being snooty? But by the middle of the 20th century, from what I've read (you're a PhD, I'm just a guy who reads a bunch, happy to defer to you), there was a "class" of people - like Astor's 400 (the number who could fit in the senior Mrs. Astor's ballroom) or Philadelphia's "Mainline" society or the Boston "Brahmins -" that claimed some sorta "upper class" status, in part, as many said they were descendent of those who came over on the Mayflower (or at least a long time ago) and where, mainly, WASPs.

You read about this "upper class" in period books and newspaper all the time and see it in the era's movies. It definitely had "status" for a time (the changes in the late 1960s broke much of that down). To be sure, it was never as strong (again, based on my amateur reading) as the class structure in Europe, but it did exist to some extent in America. 

So, I could see how a liquor company would try to glam on to that "status" in the middle of the 20th century to gain some cachet and help its sales with America's growing middle class who was taking some of its taste clues from the aforementioned upper class.


----------



## drpeter

I agree broadly with the history you present, but that upper class you mention had two other things in addition to the kind of glamour that comes with part of being a regional aristocracy: Wealth and power. I understand this very well because the social class (actually caste) that I was born into in the old country, a martial aristocracy, had these two things in abundance -- and still do, to some extent at least, although much of the wealth was lost. I also understand this situation in our country because my ex-wife came from a wealthy New England family of WASPs, although she, like me, did not share in the establishment/conservative views of her parents' generation. So I have seen the ruling class up close, LOL, and I find their attitudes and takes on things quite interesting.

However, the WASPs have almost always been in control of the country's business and politics, and although the sixties were a challenge, I don't think the power they wielded was ever really broken down. Once the sixties were over, the establishment retained much of its wealth and power. A snapshot of Congress at almost any point between 1970 and now will reveal that most of the House reps were and are fairly wealthy, and almost all of the Senators were and are very wealthy. Although things have changed in the last decade, for most of that period I mentioned above, Congress was also predominantly drawn from the WASP class. And now, we are seeing the destruction of the middle class, and its slide toward the poorer working class, in an economy that is exceedingly split with more and more wealth being concentrated in a smaller and smaller percentage of the population.

Anyway, your idea about the liquor company riding the coattails of the upper class is well taken. It's just that it struck me as anachronistic in a society which, at least mid-century, claimed to be classless and egalitarian, the great and unique experiment in democracy. I think as a country, there is a general hankering after the privilege and power of the upper classes. In the latest Atlantic, there is a wonderful article by Caitlin Flanagan, herself a former teacher in one, about private schools in a democracy. It delves into this yearning for aristocracy, and where things stand now. It makes illuminating reading:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/04/private-schools-are-indefensible/618078/


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## Dr.Watson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56569


The maroon bow tie and cummerbund are interesting. Black Tie Guide says that was rather common in the '40s. https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/tuxedo-black-tie-guide/classic/tuxedo-black-tie-alternatives/


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## Peak and Pine

Dr.Watson said:


> The maroon bow tie and cummerbund are interesting. Black Tie Guide says that was rather common in the '40s.


...and beyond. I wore it to my Senior Prom in '62 and have pics to prove it, or rather Linda does, wherever she may be.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

There are days when I think the very best thing about the North American continent is Autumn. Can there be anything so heart-breakingly beautiful as the foliage in full bloom on a sunny, late-October day?


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> There are days when I think the very best thing about the North American continent is Autumn. Can there be anything so heart-breakingly beautiful as the foliage in full bloom on a sunny, late-October day?


Fall has always been my favorite month.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56610


I've been known to wear a Pendleton Topster on a Fall picnic, but never a sport coat. Life was pretty darned good back in those days, but even better now!


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## Fading Fast

Happy Easter everyone.









Also, can't believe I forgot to post these on Opening Day, but well, I did. So here they are now:


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Happy Easter everyone.
> View attachment 56630
> 
> 
> Also, can't believe I forgot to post these on Opening Day, but well, I did. So here they are now:
> View attachment 56631
> View attachment 56632


Thank you....and a Happy Easter to you and the AAAC Brotherhood!

Bye the way, did you see it snowing at those inaugural baseball games on opening day? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Thank you....and a Happy Easter to you and the AAAC Brotherhood!
> 
> Bye the way, did you see it snowing at those inaugural baseball games on opening day? :icon_scratch:


You're welcome. The Easter illustration is such a fun one.

I did see that. It seems - from vague memories - that over the years, once in awhile, we get snow on Opening Day somewhere. I'm just glad the Boys or Summer are back. I'm not a fanatic, but I enjoy following the baseball season. Hopefully, by the summer, we'll even be back to full stadiums - maybe.


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## drpeter

That's the nice thing about cricket. It's always warm weather somewhere in the 120 countries of the world where the game is played, LOL. There are no seasons for the game.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> That's the nice thing about cricket. It's always warm weather somewhere in the 120 countries of the world where the game is played, LOL. There are no seasons for the game.


Years ago, I was running an FX team and we flew the London crew into NYC for a few days of in-person meetings. We also took them to a baseball game (Yankee stadium) so that they could see some classic Americana.

They asked us to go with them the next night to a bar that was playing a cricket tournament on TV - it was some finals of some league and the bar was clearly a British expat place.

I had a great time, but no more understood cricket afterwards than our British colleagues did baseball after their trip to the stadium.

It is amazing how much these sports get into you as a kid. I'm sure, if I've lived abroad, I'd probably learn the game, but to truly be a fan, my guess is you have to have grown up with these games.

I did love the stylish look of cricket though.


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## Oldsarge

My favorite is rugby but I must admit 'style' is not one of its attributes


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> It is amazing how much these sports get into you as a kid. I'm sure, if I've lived abroad, I'd probably learn the game, but to truly be a fan, my guess is you have to have grown up with these games.
> 
> I did love the stylish look of cricket though.


Yes, one must grow up with the games one really loves. In the US, people love games that they often never played themselves, such as American football. But in India, those of us who were fans of a game had played at some level -- clubs, leagues, school and university teams. I played cricket in all of these venues, and I loved the game, being part of a team. I also played badminton, a tough sport to play, especially when playing singles.

I liked watching other sports, notably basketball, and I had an affection for the game because they played it in India too. Now of course, the Indians are playing baseball to some extent, and even American football, here and there! And the converse is true. The US has a national cricket team, Level 4 in the ICC tournaments, but doing reasonably well. Most Americans don't know this. Here's the really funny historical thing: The first ever Test Match Series in cricket between two countries was played in the mid-19th century between Canada and the United States! Fascinating, isn't it?

I also think cricket is perhaps the most elegant game I know of, at least in terms of team sports. The movements of batsmen, bowlers, and even fielders carry with them a grace and style that is unequalled in most other sports -- except perhaps skating, gymnastics and similar sports.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Hebrew Barrister

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56677


Dude with the blonde hair is rather intrigued by the drinks being mixed.


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## Fading Fast

Hebrew Barrister said:


> Dude with the blonde hair is rather intrigued by the drinks being mixed.


There was no additional info with the pic, nor was there any text, but it felt to me like there, originally, had been a one liner under it as in a "The New Yorker" comic.

I like the way the artist captured the "bartender's" shirt, sport coat and tie.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56691


Looking at an/a illustration/picture such as the above, I'm always left wondering "is the cane a stylish accessory or a functional necessity? Perhaps a concealed saber? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Looking at an/a illustration/picture such as the above, I'm always left wondering "is the cane a stylish accessory or a functional necessity? Perhaps a concealed saber? :icon_scratch:


I know all but nothing about "walking sticks," and that one, to a modern eye, looks like a cane. However, I doubt, back then, they would have shown a disabled person in an ad, so my guess is it's a walking stick.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56715


The Musketeers are all tied up and seem to have lost interest in their coffee? LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56738


With his eyes locked on the open space on the overhead luggage rack, the big guy, with the even bigger suitcase, walked all over his fellow travelers feet,


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> With his eyes locked on the open space on the overhead luggage rack, the big guy, with the even bigger suitcase, walked all over his fellow travelers feet,


I think the message is right -- one should check one's luggage.

Whenever I travel by air, I check my baggage, except for a small briefcase, thinking it would be helpful to others if I don't bring anything larger on board. And then I find that the overhead bins are packed to the rafters with giant suitcases crammed in every which way. I had to argue with a fellow once so that he would not shove a monster "carry-on" suitcase on top of my soft-sided briefcase and smash my laptop inside it! One more reason why, bring retired, I don't travel by air much anymore. Crowded airports, harried travelers -- who needs the aggravation?

But train travel is actually more civilized -- for one thing, there is more space. I don't think it will happen in my lifetime, but eventually mag-lev trains running over monorail networks will be the fastest way to get from city center to city center, especially since airports are usually located far away from downtowns. And think of the reduction in fossil fuel usage when switching from aviation fuel to electric power.


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56759


Those suits look marvelous, but that camera is what has captured my attention in the illustration above. Not admitting that I am getting (that) old, but I can remember when those multiple lensed movie cameras where the hot Christmas gifts for the men of the house, with a note on the wrapped gift telling one to open first! LOL. Good memories, for sure.  Now we use our iphones to make our videos.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I think the message is right -- one should check one's luggage.
> 
> Whenever I travel by air, I check my baggage, except for a small briefcase, thinking it would be helpful to others if I don't bring anything larger on board. And then I find that the overhead bins are packed to the rafters with giant suitcases crammed in every which way. I had to argue with a fellow once so that he would not shove a monster "carry-on" suitcase on top of my soft-sided briefcase and smash my laptop inside it! One more reason why, bring retired, I don't travel by air much anymore. Crowded airports, harried travelers -- who needs the aggravation?
> 
> But train travel is actually more civilized -- for one thing, there is more space. I don't think it will happen in my lifetime, but eventually mag-lev trains running over monorail networks will be the fastest way to get from city center to city center, especially since airports are usually located far away from downtowns. And think of the reduction in fossil fuel usage when switching from aviation fuel to electric power.


I love train travel because, as you note, it feels so much more civilized to me. Living in New York, I have pretty good train coverage from Baltimore to Boston, with okay train travel to few modestly farther points as well. If in anyway possible, we choose Amtrak over flying when traveling anywhere in, as this area is called, the Northeast Corridor.

When say, I have to go down to Washington, I look forward to the trip if I do it by train and dread it if I have to fly. Sadly though, my experience has been, once I get out of the Northeast Corridor, the Amtrak experience declines greatly for too many reason to go into here - not all of them Amtrak's fault - but so much so, that I'd rather fly, say, to Chicago than endure a train trip on what once was the nicest train line in the country.

I agree with you that I doubt it will happen in our lifetimes, but I wish the US had invested / would invest in a state-of-the-art interstate train network.

As to luggage, trains are also a pleasure as there is, unless you go nuts, plenty of room without inconveniencing others. On planes, I don't understand why the airlines don't enforce their own policy but instead seem to allow people to carry these large-sized hard-sided pieces of luggage that simply overwhelm the overhead space. Hence, the ten-or-more minutes of passengers and the airline attendants trying to shuffle it all around the bins after everyone has boarded.

I bought, years ago, a soft-sided carry-on piece of luggage that is well within the airlines guidelines. It's small enough that, if I board last, and all the overhead bins are jammed full of the hard-sided luggage with wheels, I can slide mine under the seat in front as the airline suggests. And I don't push it and try to bring a "second smaller bag" etc.

It's all so exhausting as so much in life is made harder because some people won't follow the reasonable rules in place and, also, don't use common sense and practice some common courtesy. To wit, if you and your spouse both bring large hard-sided luggage, plus two smaller bags (purse for her, small backpack for him) and two puffer coats - even if all that is technically allowed - do you really think that it's fair as, clearly, if everyone did that, there would not be enough room.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Those suits look marvelous, but that camera is what has captured my attention in the illustration above. Not admitting that I am getting (that) old, but I can remember when those multiple lensed movie cameras where the hot Christmas gifts for the men of the house, with a note on the wrapped gift telling one to open first! LOL. Good memories, for sure.  Now we use our iphones to make our videos.


I, too, remember those days, which in truth if you stretch it to digital cameras, aren't that long ago as there was a time, into the '00s, when a digital camera was a hot gift.

We bought several for the nephews over the years back then and they were excited as heck. Now, as you note, it's all miraculously done with one's phone today.

I love the progress, but get sad when I see, as I did a few Christmases ago, a really nice (and pretty expensive) digital camera we bought one of those now young men sitting in a dusty bowl in their parents' kitchen that clearly hadn't been touched in a long time.

I don't blame them at all for moving on, it just somehow made me sad to see this once-important gift now completely ignored.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I, too, remember those days, which in truth if you stretch it to digital cameras, aren't that long ago as there was a time, into the '00s, when a digital camera was a hot gift.
> 
> We bought several for the nephews over the years back then and they were excited as heck. Now, as you note, it's all miraculously done with one's phone today.
> 
> I love the progress, but get sad when I see, as I did a few Christmases ago, a really nice (and pretty expensive) digital camera we bought one of those now young men sitting in a dusty bowl in their parents' kitchen that clearly hadn't been touched in a long time.
> 
> I don't blame them at all for moving on, it just somehow made me sad to see this once-important gift now completely ignored.


Jeeze Louise, my friend, we are really going to be sad when it is us the relatives have dumped into a bowl and are gathering dust due to lack of any attention being placed upon us over extended periods of time! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Jeeze Louise, my friend, we are really going to be sad when it is us the relatives have dumped into a bowl and are gathering dust due to lack of any attention being placed upon us over extended periods of time! LOL.


The Dust Bowl of old age?


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56796


It appears to be the ritual 'passing of the masses' as the early service ends and the later service is about to begin at the "Little White Church" in the vale. Can't help but note that all are wearing their Sunday best! Happy Sunday to the brotherhood.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56843


Those were the days, my friend, when we hung our laundry on an outdoor clothesline to dry in the fresh air. They came in smelling so fresh and clean. Recently, the wife tried drying a few things in the open air here in central Florida and they came in smelling so bad, they went right back in the washer and then to the dryer. Sadly, we call that progress, I suppose!


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Those were the days, my friend, when we hung our laundry on an outdoor clothesline to dry in the fresh air. They came in smelling so fresh and clean. Recently, the wife tried drying a few things in the open air here in central Florida and they came in smelling so bad, they went right back in the washer and then to the dryer. Sadly, we call that progress, I suppose!


Growing up, for years we had a clothes line both outside and down in the basement where we'd hang the clothes if it was raining. Then, we bought a dryer and, while we still hung clothes, it was for certain items or "a nice day" so let them air dry (and save money not running the dryer).


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Could I add The 1970's too or can that be made for another new thread?


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Those were the days, my friend, when we hung our laundry on an outdoor clothesline to dry in the fresh air. They came in smelling so fresh and clean. Recently, the wife tried drying a few things in the open air here in central Florida and they came in smelling so bad, they went right back in the washer and then to the dryer. Sadly, we call that progress, I suppose!


I suppose the air in central Florida ain't what it used to be, what with all the pollution and emissions and so forth.


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## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> Could I add The 1970's too or can that be made for another new thread?


Howard, I think it's fine to add something from the '70s here as these threads are pretty flexible and drift all over the place.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I suppose the air in central Florida ain't what it used to be, what with all the pollution and emissions and so forth.


Central Florida is quickly becoming over populated and it shows...and smells...and presents aggravating challenges on our roadways! Bummer. I don't think Mickey expected this when he built his park in our backyard? Of course, truth be known, it wasn't our back yard, back then. LOL.


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## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> The Dust Bowl of old age?


The punch bowl!


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56863


Being a pipe smoker, I've noticed so many of the ads in this thread feature pipe smokers. Goes to show how that was far more common in the 50's than it is these days.


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## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Being a pipe smoker, I've noticed so many of the ads in this thread feature pipe smokers. Goes to show how that was far more common in the 50's than it is these days.


I still pass cigarette smokers on the streets of NYC daily and I'll pass a cigar smoker at least once a week, but only see a pipe smoker a handful of times a year.


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## 215339

Interesting discussion on the outside smells and hanging clothes.

I still hang sports coats and winter coats outside in winter on a line, the frigid air is great for getting rid of any funky smells.

Florida humidity sounds like it'd do the opposite.


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## Oldsarge

There is something about a beard and a pipe that just seem to go together but I have yet to take the plunge. And given my advancing years, it's unlikely that I will. Maybe if I moved to Italy . . .


----------



## Tweedlover

Oldsarge said:


> There is something about a beard and a pipe that just seem to go together but I have yet to take the plunge. And given my advancing years, it's unlikely that I will. Maybe if I moved to Italy . . .


Well, I've got the beard and around 65 pipes to go with it.


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## Oldsarge

I have a longing for a calabash or a church warden. Maybe a long stemmed Rameses . . .


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## Fading Fast

Apropos of the recent pipe conversation:


----------



## drpeter

I like the middle image. Somehow, the ascot goes very nicely with the pipe, and with the rest of his clothes as well.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I like the middle image. Somehow, the ascot goes very nicely with the pipe, and with the rest of his clothes as well.


 Agreed. I really like the last pic too as I love the fit and drape of his suit.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

This is making me long for a bowl of Rattray's Black Mallory.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Apropos of the recent pipe conversation:
> View attachment 56878
> View attachment 56879
> View attachment 56881
> View attachment 56882


Pipe smokers galore in this one.I was born in the 50's and my dad occasionally smoked a pipe then.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56888


You hardly ever see anyone drinking a highball these days.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> You hardly ever see anyone drinking a highball these days.


Agreed, I bet most people under 40 don't even know what they are.

And now, a cheesy highball joke:

You know what the giraffe said when he walked into the bar?

"The high balls are on me."


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed, I bet most people under 40 don't even know what they are.
> 
> And now, a cheesy highball joke:
> 
> You know what the giraffe said when he walked into the bar?
> 
> "The high balls are on me."


My mother, all 5'2" of her, could drink anyone under the table. Old fashioneds, "sweetened" several times, followed by wine with dinner. After the dishes were done there was either a highball or a request for someone to split a beer, often twice. My other good highball memory is the lady at Arnold's Hofbrau in DC who played the piano. She always had a highball on the piano at the ready.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> My mother, all 5'2" of her, could drink anyone under the table. Old fashioneds, "sweetened" several times, followed by wine with dinner. After the dishes were done there was either a highball or a request for someone to split a beer, often twice. My other good highball memory is the lady at Arnold's Hofbrau in DC who played the piano. She always had a highball on the piano at the ready.


Great story, your mom sounds awesome.

As a fan of movies and books from the '30s and '40s, highballs show up all the time - they were just part of that culture.


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## Oldsarge

I think I've had one or two.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

The 1970's disco era.


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## eagle2250

Howard said:


> The 1970's disco era.


The 1970's, an era I may not have appreciated, but I certainly lived through it. I was once gifted with a pale blue, oversized collared leisure suit that I did not wear a single time, before taking it to the local thrift shop. I also never wore platform shoes. Instead, I wore my USAF pinks, my AE black calf Leeds, etc. and went on scratching my head and wondering, what the hell are those guys thinking!


----------



## Oldsarge

Howard left out the iconic hound dog collars that hung down to the waist.


----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> Howard left out the iconic hound dog collars that hung down to the waist.


What hound dog collars? I don"t see any?


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## Howard




----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> The 1970's, an era I may not have appreciated, but I certainly lived through it. I was once gifted with a pale blue, oversized collared leisure suit that I did not wear a single time, before taking it to the local thrift shop. I also never wore platform shoes. Instead, I wore my USAF pinks, my AE black calf Leeds, etc. and went on scratching my head and wondering, what the hell are those guys thinking!


They're thinking it's time to head off to Studio 54.


----------



## Oldsarge

Imagine the shirt on the right with a collar that hung down to his belt. That's a hound dog collar.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Those were some really cool threads back In The 70's, how were they able to fit into them, you'd probably have to be super skinny.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56982


The world was so different and not that long ago! Tennis in long pants and woven shirts! I remember my grandfather walking the Presidio golf course with his canvas golf bag over his shoulder, dressed in a tie and a tweed jacket.


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> Those were some really cool threads back In The 70's, how were they able to fit into them, you'd probably have to be super skinny.


LOL, Not really that skinny. Even I had a 30" waist back in the 1970's. Mrs Eagle can confirm my 45" chest and 30" waist from back in those days. Alas, she will also tell you there have been a lot of less than desirable changes since then! She tells me that she has more to love now that she ever really bargained for.....LOL!


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> Those were some really cool threads back In The 70's, how were they able to fit into them, you'd probably have to be super skinny.


Sorry, Howard, but I never cared for the seventies styles, especially the huge, flared bell-bottoms and the hound dog collars. Neither did I like the double-knit leisure suits or the giant knots on the big neckties. It was a disastrous decade for clothes.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56992


I frequently wore dress shirts with epaulets on the shoulders, but never under a V-necked sweater vest;
I've frequently worn a sweater vest, but never tucked into the waistband of my trousers;
I've worn nigh waisted, pleated and cuffed trousers, but never with my hands jammed into my pockets;
and I do so love my spectator shoes! Nuff said.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I frequently wore dress shirts with epaulets on the shoulders, but never under a V-necked sweater vest;
> I've frequently worn a sweater vest, but never tucked into the waistband of my trousers;
> I've worn nigh waisted, pleated and cuffed trousers, but never with my hands jammed into my pockets;
> and I do so love my spectator shoes! Nuff said.


You nailed all the points. While from the time of the Ivy-style Era, I assume, this is not an Ivy-leaning store.


----------



## Howard

drpeter said:


> Sorry, Howard, but I never cared for the seventies styles, especially the huge, flared bell-bottoms and the hound dog collars. Neither did I like the double-knit leisure suits or the giant knots on the big neckties. It was a disastrous decade for clothes.


What were you wearing back then, Peter?


----------



## Oldsarge

My wife made me a modestly hound dog collar pullover that I loved and wore well past its era. Other than that, I'm with drpeter.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Mrs Eagle just reminded me of the "wallpaper shirts" I used to wear in the early 1970's (1972 and beyond!);They were long sleeved buttoned sport shirts with fabric patterns composed of stripes of diminutive versions of flowers and other vegetation. I can't remember what they were called, but SWMBO really liked seeing me wear those shirts and a pair of soft brown leather earth shoes, that were completely out of character for me.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Mrs Eagle just reminded me of the "wallpaper shirts" I used to wear in the early 1970's (1972 and beyond!);They were long sleeved buttoned sport shirts with fabric patterns composed of stripes of diminutive versions of flowers and other vegetation. I can't remember what they were called, but SWMBO really liked seeing me wear those shirts and a pair of soft brown leather earth shoes, that were completely out of character for me.


Did it come with bellbottom pants too?


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> Did it come with bellbottom pants too?


I don't think so. My memory is not so good these days, but as I recall I wore trousers with straight legs or boot cut legs( on rare occasions)!


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Mrs Eagle just reminded me of the "wallpaper shirts" I used to wear in the early 1970's (1972 and beyond!);They were long sleeved buttoned sport shirts with fabric patterns composed of stripes of diminutive versions of flowers and other vegetation. I can't remember what they were called, but SWMBO really liked seeing me wear those shirts and a pair of soft brown leather earth shoes, that were completely out of character for me.


Those were the ones that were advertised as 'Not your father's dress shirt, but maybe your grandfather's" and I loved them. I'd be happy to see them return, if I ever got back into wearing dress shirts.


----------



## Howard

1980's Men's Dress Wear (Men)









(Women's) Dress Wear


----------



## drpeter

Love the dove grey (or light khaki?), English-pleated trousers.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57069


Makes me want some sort of sandwich on white bread and a cold Coke!


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> Makes me want some sort of sandwich on white bread and a cold Coke!


Make mine a Hard Salami on dark rye, to go with that coke!


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Makes me want some sort of sandwich on white bread and a cold Coke!


What you could have is cucumber-and-cress sandwiches with butter on white bread, crust trimmed. You need to press some of the water out of the (thinly-sliced) cukes before making the sandwiches, though. But Coke will not do, you need tea with milk or lemon.

Or else you could go all-American and have The Dagwood. Everything loose in the fridge stuffed inside, and a furlong high. A coke would work very well with that. You need to hide this monster from Blondie, though.


----------



## ran23

Anything on Dark Rye!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

It must be a teenage Hemingway writing the great American short story in a side room while waiting for the train to take him to his next assignment as a reporter.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57082


Is that an old Smith Corona manual typewriter he is pounding away on? If so, I had one very similar to it back in high school and in my early college years. Mine was a light blue typewriter that locked into a dark grey, lockable case. I hammered out a lot of term papers on that old classic! My wife tells me we still have that old relic hidden away somewhere in our present day hoard. She is a wise lady and I wouldn't want to bet against her. LOL.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57082


I can remember a time when we all used typewriters.


----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> Makes me want some sort of sandwich on white bread and a cold Coke!


And sharing it with a girl?


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Make mine a Hard Salami on dark rye, to go with that coke!


I'll take a peanut butter jelly sandwich.


----------



## Oldsarge

I don't much care for Coke or any other cola.


----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> I don't much care for Coke or any other cola.


What do you prefer then?


----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> I can remember a time when we all used typewriters.


I can remember the time when we used pencils, fountain pens, and other word processors. But you can't beat the computer for producing clean copy every time. No corrections showing, clean type, nice margins, the type-face of your choice.

If you compose an article or a book on the computer, it can pretty much go straight into the printer's process with little work for a compositor. The work that remains, of course, is the printing in publisher's book format, collecting pages into signatures, binding and so forth.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57175


That looks to be one fine car for a college student. Not trying to be funny, but did they have diet Coke, way back then?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> That looks to be one fine car for a college student. Not trying to be funny, but did they have diet Coke, way back then?


Tab...yuck.


----------



## Oldsarge

Tab: Great commercials, terrible product.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> Tab: Great commercials, terrible product.


I wasn't quite crazy about the flavor of Tab, tasted a bit weird.


----------



## Howard




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> I wasn't quite crazy about the flavor of Tab, tasted a bit weird.


Agreed! I have never liked artificial sweeteners. If I can't have my Coke (or, more likely, ginger ale or root beer) with real sugar, I'll stick with water or order an Arnold Palmer (unless the lemonade is also artificially sweetened, in which case it's unsweetened tea for me).

BTW in Vietnamese restaurants, ordering lemonade is usually a good bet. They generally make it fresh and very well.


----------



## drpeter

I know it is not the best thing for you but, after my diabetes diagnosis, I use half sugar and half Splenda in my hot Indian tea each morning, which I used to make with milk and sugar. It is the only sugared (or Splenda'd) drink I consume. Other than tea, I will have mineral water, or just plain tap water. I dislike all of the sodas, and stopped drinking alcohol a long time ago. I rarely consume lemonade, except once in a while in the summer, and I actually prefer it with a little salt!


----------



## Oldsarge

I have replaced all the sugar in my diet with a product called Swerve. It's actually very good and replaces granulated, confectioners' and brown sugars well enough that I can't tell a difference. Agave syrup does a good job in coffee. I'll bet it would work just as well in tea.


----------



## drpeter

I tried Agave syrup and did not like it. I'll try Swerve. Thanks, Sarge.


----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> I have replaced all the sugar in my diet with a product called Swerve. It's actually very good and replaces granulated, confectioners' and brown sugars well enough that I can't tell a difference. Agave syrup does a good job in coffee. I'll bet it would work just as well in tea.


I consume too much sugar myself, in my coffee, my cereal and a few others, could be that's why I'm so hyper sometimes.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Maybe it's just me, but the lad in the picture has a distinctly androgynous look, doesn't he?


----------



## fred johnson

eagle2250 said:


> That looks to be one fine car for a college student. Not trying to be funny, but did they have diet Coke, way back then?


Appears to be an MG TD,


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57208


Random thoughts;

Stepping out with a coworker, it appears. 
"Penny for your thoughts?" 
Nice rigs worn by both!

Nuff said.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

The little diagram at bottom right shows how "bladed" this suit jacket is, with exaggerated shoulders tapering down to a narrow waist. Personally, I haven't much cared for shoulders that are wide, I would rather have them correspond closely to my natural shoulder. That said, I do have some jackets, especially double-breasted ones, that have wide shoulders.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57297


I'm guessing that the flash camera belongs to the guy leaning against the wall and wearing a fedora, a news reporter hoping for a story; the lady with the steno-pad si an executive secretary, being questioned about her boss, lying dead in a far corner of that well lit room; the well dressed gentleman wiping his brow is thinking "this wench is intellectually the 'alpha' participant in this interrogation' and the uniformed officer is standing there thinking...."jeez Louise, my feet are killing me!" The wheels of justice do turn Oh-so-slowly and there are a million stories in the "naked illustration/city." These incredible illustrations have so much to tell us.


----------



## drpeter

Maybe you know this already Eagle, (and I think I wrote about it some time ago) but pictures like this one look surprisingly similar to the set of pictures used in the personality test known as the Thematic Apperception Test, or TAT. The art work is definitely from the 1920s-50s.

In the TAT, the client is asked by the psychologist to construct a story based on the picture shown to them on a page-sized card. The psychologist then scores the story using a form of content analysis. So, what you have done is beautiful -- it is your response to the picture, and it is a great story. For a psychologist, it's also a window into your complex mind, but we won't go there, LOL. We'll just be lone figures walking the mean streets, searching for the truth.

By the way, you'll like our next selection for my film discussion Zoom class for seniors at the university: Roman Polanski's _Chinatown_, a brilliant work that is also a colour noir film! Nicholson and Dunawaye are perfectly cast and turn in terrific performances, but John Huston as Noah Cross is amazing -- a director who can also act -- rather like Orson Welles.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57336


Wow does that look like lunch hour at the Houston Club circa 1977!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57336


For a second I thought they were talking about _The New Yorker, The Saturday Evening Post, _or perhaps _Harper's Bazaar. _Then I saw the _TV Guide_ logo. But you never know: Maybe the old versions contained scholarly articles on Vitruvian architecture, or the paintings in the Uffizi. It could have been a contender...


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> For a second I thought they were talking about _The New Yorker, The Saturday Evening Post, _or perhaps _Harper's Bazaar. _Then I saw the _TV Guide_ logo. But you never know: Maybe the old versions contained scholarly articles on Vitruvian architecture, or the paintings in the Uffizi. It could have been a contender...


Similar to "never a nod when a wink will do" this stands for "Why read a book when the topic is covered in a magazine? Why read a magazine when the topic is covered on the web? Why surf the web when the TV has shows about everything?"


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Kamakura Shirt email:


----------



## drpeter

I love duffle coats. I have two smashing examples: One is a vintage camel-coloured Gloverall and I can wear that and pretend to be Monty on the deck of a destroyer, LOL. The other is a lovely navy blue John Partridge, also vintage, with a green, blue and red tartan lining. Both have wooden toggles and rawhide attachments. Thick wool, warm and comfortable in Wisconsin deep-freeze winters.


----------



## Oldsarge

Duffle coats look sharp and keep you warm--too warm for the PNW, IMO.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57358


Why is that woman holding her hands like that? What can't she believe?


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> Why is that woman holding her hands like that? What can't she believe?


IMO, it's open to interpretation as it isn't clear from the picture. To be honest, I thought the women's expressions were a bit odd in this one. I only posted the illustration because of the man's belted-back pants.


----------



## Oldsarge

That may be what they find so hilarious. I don't understand, though.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> IMO, it's open to interpretation as it isn't clear from the picture. To be honest, I thought the women's expressions were a bit odd in this one. I only posted the illustration because of the man's belted-back pants.


Maybe she finds the guy hot?


----------



## Howard




----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> Maybe she finds the guy hot?


Women (at least some women) tend to touch their hair in the presence of a man they find attractive and the woman at the bottom seems to be touching her hair.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57358


The ladies appear to be expressing different degrees of mirth. Perhaps they are reacting to the incongruity of the gentleman' s showing off his brand new fancy britches with the belted-back strap, while having an unworn tie stuffed in his left cheek pocket of those britches. If one is going to strut their stuff, it is imperative that we do it right! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57358


Ok, now I need to find a repp tobacco pouch.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

The summer of 1939 was a great season, wiith a little sun and sand, and sailing -- perhaps a bit of sin as well, LOL -- until you-know-who decided to invade Poland.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57454


OK, I seem to be confused again. The ladies and gentlemen appear to be on a boat deck, enjoying the sunshine, the sea air and the view.Why is the guy with the chapeau wearing the golf gloves? Or are those smoking gloves and he's trying to avoid getting tobacco stains on his fingers? LOL.  Do people do that? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> OK, I seem to be confused again. The ladies and gentlemen appear to be on a boat deck, enjoying the sunshine, the sea air and the view.Why is the guy with the chapeau wearing the golf gloves? Or are those smoking gloves and he's trying to avoid getting tobacco stains on his fingers? LOL.  Do people do that? :icon_scratch:


"Chapeau," checks notes, nothing, Googles it, "Ah, hat." LOL

I believe some women wore gloves when smoking for that reason, since the obvious solution of not smoking didn't occur to them, but I have no idea if that is what he's doing here. Perhaps it's a private yacht and he was hitting golf balls off of it early. 

This illustration reminds me of those awesome Apparel Arts/Esquire ones from the same period.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> OK, I seem to be confused again. The ladies and gentlemen appear to be on a boat deck, enjoying the sunshine, the sea air and the view.Why is the guy with the chapeau wearing the golf gloves? Or are those smoking gloves and he's trying to avoid getting tobacco stains on his fingers? LOL.  Do people do that? :icon_scratch:


Mojito mitts! The cool refreshment stays in the glass, not on your pinkies!


----------



## Oldsarge

He's far to stylishly dressed to be mere crew, otherwise I'd think the gloves were to protect his hands while dealing with the rigging. A true mystery.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57501


Mrs Eagle, sporting her "June Cleaver" house dress and a perky little apron, greeting her returning home, Cold Warrior husband at the front door with a tray of gastronomical goodies (AKA: Dinner). Yea....right, in my fevered dreams! Besides, given the size of those servings, what is she going to eat? LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Mrs Eagle, sporting her "June Cleaver" house dress and a perky little apron, greeting her returning home, Cold Warrior husband at the front door with a tray of gastronomical goodies (AKA: Dinner). Yea....right, in my fevered dreams! Besides, given the size of those servings, what is she going to eat? LOL.


He is just hanging up his hat and coat. The tray should be holding a pitcher of martinis or Manhattans to prepare his palate for those TV dinners of ham steak, green peas, and mashed potatoes.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> ...The tray should be holding a pitcher of martinis or Manhattans ....


:rock:


----------



## Fading Fast

In movies form the '50s,/'60s, there appears to have been a time when "TV Dinners" were "a thing" that, at the margin, got a bit more respect than they do now, perhaps because they were new and different then.

Also, maybe I'm bias as my mom all but didn't cook, so Swanson's Hungry Man TV Dinners were a very regular part of my diet growing up in the '70s. I still have a fondness for the "apple cobbler" dessert (in quotes because it tasted a bit like soft cardboard with apple bits in syrup, but you're a kid, you're hunger and it's food).


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I rarely got TV dinners as both parents were excellent cooks, and I felt deprived.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I rarely got TV dinners as both parents were excellent cooks, and I felt deprived.


My father couldn't make toast and my mother was only somewhat better, but she hated "the kitchen," so you could have come over anytime as we'd have gladly shared our TV dinners with you.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> In movies form the '50s,/'60s, there appears to have been a time when "TV Dinners" were "a thing" that, at the margin, got a bit more respect than they do now, perhaps because they were new and different then.
> 
> Also, maybe I'm bias as my mom all but didn't cook, so Swanson's Hungry Man TV Dinners were a very regular part of my diet growing up in the '70s. I still have a fondness for the "apple cobbler" dessert (in quotes because it tasted a bit like soft cardboard with apple bits in syrup, but you're a kid, you're hunger and it's food).


I used to eat TV Dinners a long time ago, they now contain so much sodium content, it's unbelievable, I was used to eating The Meatloaf OR Fried Chicken OR whatever I was in the mood for, the mashed potatoes were watery, lumpy and disgusting and the dessert portion either it was apple cobbler or brownie was at least yummy.


----------



## ran23

For a short time, I was having veal cutlet dinners for a quick breakfast. Veal went into a wheat English Muffin sometimes with potatoes. this didn't last long.


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> I rarely got TV dinners as both parents were excellent cooks, and I felt deprived.


I too cannot recall my Mama ever serving us TV dinners, But I did become aware of the Hungry Man TV dinners as an adult. living in the BOQ, I would occasionally embrace the convenience and heat one up for dinner. Also the Strategic Air Command had a bad habit of serving her nuclear alert crews the USAF version of Hungry Man TV Dinners...They called them Foil Packs and they were actually much better than one might expect! LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

The only time we ever ate TV dinners was if we were sitting in front of the TV for something like the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade. It was a rare event and didn't exactly elicit rave reviews. I have been advised that they are much better some 40 years later but have not been in any mood to experiment therewith. Given the quality of the local pizzeria, why bother?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

ran23 said:


> For a short time, I was having veal cutlet dinners for a quick breakfast. Veal went into a wheat English Muffin sometimes with potatoes. this didn't last long.


How did it taste?


----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> The only time we ever ate TV dinners was if we were sitting in front of the TV for something like the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade. It was a rare event and didn't exactly elicit rave reviews. I have been advised that they are much better some 40 years later but have not been in any mood to experiment therewith. Given the quality of the local pizzeria, why bother?


A lot of the TV Dinners have so much sodium content now, it's crazy, some have nearly 1500-2000 grams of salt, I don't eat them as often anymore but maybe occasionally for me I might have one and that's it.


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> A lot of the TV Dinners have so much sodium content now, it's crazy, some have nearly 1500-2000 grams of salt.


2,000 grams of salt nowadays? That's nearly 4.4 pounds.

I knew that prepared meals were heavy on the sodium, but I had no idea........


----------



## eagle2250

Charles Dana said:


> 2,000 grams of salt nowadays? That's nearly 4.4 pounds.
> 
> I knew that prepared meals were heavy on the sodium, but I had no idea........


LOL, I suspect Howard intended to say milligrams, like 480 mg of sodium in a can to Tomato Basile soup. I'd check out a TV dinners sodium content, but we seem not to have any.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> LOL, I suspect Howard intended to say milligrams, like 480 mg of sodium in a can to Tomato Basile soup. I'd check out a TV dinners sodium content, but we seem not to have any.


The only thing we have in the house are single-serve Lean Cuisine and they have, at least the few we have, About 700 mgs.


----------



## Charles Dana

eagle2250 said:


> LOL, I suspect Howard intended to say milligrams.


I know. I was just needling our friend.


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> 2,000 grams of salt nowadays? That's nearly 4.4 pounds.
> 
> I knew that prepared meals were heavy on the sodium, but I had no idea........


And now you know, I couldn't believe it myself in just one package of either The meatloaf OR The Fried Chicken OR you can have Banquet's Nashville Hot Chicken with Mac And Cheese is a whopping 1910mg of sodium.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> LOL, I suspect Howard intended to say milligrams, like 480 mg of sodium in a can to Tomato Basile soup. I'd check out a TV dinners sodium content, but we seem not to have any.


I've had plenty of them in the past but then I couldn't eat them after a while, maybe once in a while when I'm really hungry nowadays.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> The only thing we have in the house are single-serve Lean Cuisine and they have, at least the few we have, About 700 mgs.


Have you had Marie Callendar's?


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> Have you had Marie Callendar's?


We have not.


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> And now you know, I couldn't believe it myself in just one package of either The meatloaf OR The Fried Chicken OR you can have Banquet's Nashville Hot Chicken with Mac And Cheese is a whopping 1910mg of sodium.


The sodium content of packaged meals is the deal-breaker for me. Meals made from scratch at home are the way to go. Finely-chopped garlic, lemongrass, ginger, and mint leaves provide plenty of seasoning.


----------



## drpeter

I love this thread! When I was growing up in India, we had no TV, let alone TV dinners! We had a single government-run radio station for the entire country, called All India Radio. They broadcast for at most 10 hours, partly in the mornings and partly in the evenings -- news, radio plays, music. Not a single commercial to be heard anywhere. That meant we had a wonderful silence for a good part of the day on the airwaves. Our main entertainment was reading, films and of course, sports. The sports were not the billion-dollar business it is in the US, it was mostly amateur. Even the members of the Indian cricket team had regular jobs.

The whole concept of a TV dinner was unknown, since most people did not have iceboxes or refrigerators. The food for each day was prepared from vegetables and fish bought each morning, from vendors who came to the house. Really healthy, fresh ingredients. A very different world then.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57552


Do you guys remember going to the Soda Fountain at your local Drug Store, way back in the day, and ordering a milkshake, They would bring the concoction to you in a tall metal container and pour the shake into a glass in front of you and then set the metal container on the counter for you to refill your glass, as desired/necessary. Good times, eh? LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Do you guys remember going to the Soda Fountain at your local Drug Store, way back in the day, and ordering a milkshake, They would bring the concoction to you in a tall metal container and pour the shake into a glass in front of you and then set the metal container on the counter for you to refill your glass, as desired/necessary. Good times, eh? LOL.


And the delight of a fountain Coke with a squirt of lime syrup.


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> The sodium content of packaged meals is the deal-breaker for me. Meals made from scratch at home are the way to go. Finely-chopped garlic, lemongrass, ginger, and mint leaves provide plenty of seasoning.


Charles, it's best to make food from scratch, you never know what they put in these TV Dinners these days.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Do you guys remember going to the Soda Fountain at your local Drug Store, way back in the day, and ordering a milkshake, They would bring the concoction to you in a tall metal container and pour the shake into a glass in front of you and then set the metal container on the counter for you to refill your glass, as desired/necessary. Good times, eh? LOL.


My Father would probably be the only one to remember The 1950's, My era was The 1980's.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57552


Gotta love a fedora.


----------



## ran23

Howard said:


> How did it taste?


It was a fun breakfast before driving 35 minutes to work, sipping more coffee.


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> Have you had Marie Callendar's?


Howard, are you aware that Marie Callender makes a full sized Chicken Pot Pie (10 oz) that includes almost 1000 mg of salt in a serving. They may kill us all, but they do taste pretty good. Although my homemade chicken potpies are even better and have less than half that amount of sodium. We all would be a lot healthier if we learned to do it from scratch!


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Howard, are you aware that Marie Callender makes a full sized Chicken Pot Pie (10 oz) that includes almost 1000 mg of salt in a serving. They may kill us all, but they do taste pretty good. Although my homemade chicken potpies are even better and have less than half that amount of sodium. We all would be a lot healthier if we learned to do it from scratch!


I know that Eagle but they are so good, Marie gives me a good portion but Hungry Man dinners was small.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57566


I'm looking at a high temp of 93 degrees on our front porch today and you are taunting us with an illustration of snow, skies, winter coats and warm boots? LOL...Oh, "you are a mean one Mr. Grinch!"


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I'm looking at a high temp of 93 degrees on our front porch today and you are taunting us with an illustration of snow, skies, winter coats and warm boots? LOL...Oh, "you are a mean one Mr. Grinch!"


While the high will only be in the low 60s here today, like you, no one is going skiing. I just like the feel of this one and thought the illustrator did a good job of showing drape and movement in the clothes, the chinos in particular.


----------



## drpeter

I couldn't help wondering about the letters that come before "OTCH" on the board of the railway station. Assuming it is the name of the place where the station is located, what could it be?

Or maybe it is just a sign advertisng whisky, LOL, as in SCOTCH.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> I couldn't help wondering about the letters that come before "OTCH" on the board of the railway station. Assuming it is the name of the place where the station is located, what could it be?


*Crawford Notch* in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. Don't you Cheeseheads know anything?


----------



## Charles Dana

drpeter said:


> I couldn't help wondering about the letters that come before "OTCH" on the board of the railway station. Assuming it is the name of the place where the station is located, what could it be?
> 
> Or maybe it is just a dign advertisng whisky, LOL, as in SCOTCH.


The vacationers probably have just arrived in a place in New England that has the word "Notch" in its name.

According to a travel writer named Tom Brosnahan, "In New England's north country, mountain gaps or passes are called 'notches.'" For example, Dixville Notch is a "dramatic mountain pass" in New Hampshire. Other "famous notches": Franconia Notch-also in New Hampshire-and Smugglers Notch in Vermont.

Wikipedia tells us that Dixville Notch "is an unincorporated community in Dixville Township, Coos County, New Hampshire." It is the site of the Balsams Grand Resort Hotel, which was also a ski resort. It operated from 1875 to 2011.

Smugglers Notch is a year-round family resort that is still in operation.

EDIT: Looks like Peak and Pine and I were writing about notches at the same time.


----------



## Charles Dana

Peak and Pine said:


> You're a little late on this brother, but that's what you get when you write about New England from San Francisco.


Dang that Pony Express.


----------



## Oldsarge

OMG, I remember that magazine cover and the snarky comment on the inside. Too funny!


----------



## drpeter

I thought it might be Notch, but then thought -- what farmer in the wilds of NH would name a pass a notch? Anyway, thanks for coming to my aid, Peaks. We barely have mountains here, just a hill or two and then the tundra.

Also, isn't Dixville Notch in NH one of the first places to finish counting votes in primaries and elections?


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> I'm looking at a high temp of 93 degrees on our front porch today and you are taunting us with an illustration of snow, skies, winter coats and warm boots? LOL...Oh, "you are a mean one Mr. Grinch!"


How is it Summer over there and it's halfway to Summer here in New York?


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> How is it Summer over there and it's halfway to Summer here in New York?


We moved to central Florida for the winters and to be closer to the grand kids. During the summers when both the temperature and the humidity hover close to 100 degrees/percent respectively, we just tough it out and look forward to next winter! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

We pause this thread for a message from a truly great illustrator, finally, J. C. Leyendecker...


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57645


Boy, nickel Cokes. There is a memory!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57645


Back in the mid 1950's, as I recall, we paid just a nickle for a whole bottle of Coke, to wash down the candy bar we bought with a second nickle. Now that's living large on just a dime! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Boy, nickel Cokes. There is a memory!





eagle2250 said:


> Back in the mid 1950's, as I recall, we paid just a nickle for a whole bottle of Coke, to wash down the candy bar we bought with a second nickle. Now that's living large on just a dime! LOL.


My dad was 40 when I was born in '64, so he was a Depression Era kid who, at some level, never adjusted his price meter.

According to him, everything was too expensive when I grew up. Looking back, I wonder if it wasn't just a brilliant parental meta-defense against having to buy anything for me as I never asked because I didn't want to hear the speech again about, "when I grew up that cost X" (much less than it did now), or "we did without" or "we made our own" (out of dirt, apparently), etc.

So of course, I grew up hearing, "A candy bar used to cost a nickel," or "you could get a coke for a nickel." Ah, good times.


----------



## drpeter

I was born in 1950, Faders, and I heard the same thing from many of uncles and aunts. And we kids used to make fun of them. "When I was your age, I had to swim across flooded rivers, and fight tigers in the jungle, every bloody day just going to school..."

But not my Dad.

He always spent as much money as he could afford on his children despite a small salary, and later an even smaller pension. We, as kids, understood. There were a couple of years in my teenage life when the total number of clothing items I possessed (not counting underclothes) was six:: Three pairs of cotton trousers, and three shirts. I managed handsomely! No complaints. My life was so rich in so many other things. The love of my parents, a wonderful older brother who was, and still is, my protector (and for whom I would easily give my life), terrific circles of friends, and books borrowed from the libraries. None of this cost a penny, but they were all absolutely priceless.

The essence of our lives doesn't lie in the ornaments, it lies in love and friendship, in understanding and knowledge -- and in compassion.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I was born in 1950, Faders, and I heard the same thing from many of uncles and aunts. And we kids used to make fun of them. "When I was your age, I had to swim across flooded rivers, and fight tigers in the jungle, every bloody day just going to school..."
> 
> But not my Dad.
> 
> He always spent as much money as he could afford on his children despite a small salary, and later an even smaller pension. We, as kids, understood. There were a couple of years in my teenage life when the total number of clothing items I possessed (not counting underclothes) was six:: Three pairs of cotton trousers, and three shirts. I managed handsomely! No complaints. My life was so rich in so many other things. The love of my parents, a wonderful older brother who was, and still is, my protector (and for whom I would easily give my life), terrific circles of friends, and books borrowed from the libraries. None of this cost a penny, but they were all absolutely priceless.
> 
> The essence of our lives doesn't lie in the ornaments, it lies in love and friendship, in understanding and knowledge -- and in compassion.


Thank you for sharing those recollecitons.

In college in the '80s, I was on my own and worked several minimum to near-minimum wage jobs to make it all work - attic apartment, counting the slices of bread in a loaf, etc. And, to our AAAC lean, I had more than six , but not more than 15 non-underwear items and only cause I needed dress trousers, shirts and ties for one job. My college wardrobe was one pair of jeans, one pair of chinos, a couple of shirts, a sweatshirt and one mid-weight and one heavy jacket and, probably, a few items I'm sincerely forgetting, that took me through four years and I wasn't unhappy.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57645


Wow a nickel for a coke, I'll take 2.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Back in the mid 1950's, as I recall, we paid just a nickle for a whole bottle of Coke, to wash down the candy bar we bought with a second nickle. Now that's living large on just a dime! LOL.


Then how much was a can of Coke?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> Then how much was a can of Coke?


A what? Cans were for dinner and beer, not Cokes.


----------



## Andrew Christopher

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57611


This kid dresses like a Polo Ralph Lauren ad/mannequin.

Wonder if those floppy collars go to a button down.


----------



## Fading Fast

Andrew Christopher said:


> This kid dresses like a Polo Ralph Lauren ad/mannequin.
> 
> Wonder if those floppy collars go to a button down.


I had a similar thought as it is a pretty darn early example of a sweatshirt under a sport coat and not because somebody just came out of the gym and tossed the sport coat on for warmth. Even in the '70s, at least by the older generation, a sweatshirt under a sport coat would have seemed very odd. Hence, this kid was ahead of his time or, as we see often, most things go back much farther than we think.


----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> A what? Cans were for dinner and beer, not Cokes.


So Coke cans weren't invented yet, TK?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> So Coke cans weren't invented yet, TK?


If they were we never had them. Coke started using them in 1960, according to the Google.


----------



## Oldsarge

I remember that being a sad day only to be surpassed by changing the beloved hourglass bottles with plastic.:fool:


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## Charles Dana

Oldsarge said:


> I remember that being a sad day only to be surpassed by changing the beloved hourglass bottles with plastic.:fool:


Yes.

Speaking of classic beverage containers, milk isn't really milk unless it was poured from a glass bottle that had been delivered early in the morning by the milkman.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> Yes.
> 
> Speaking of classic beverage containers, milk isn't really milk unless it was poured from a glass bottle that had been delivered early in the morning by the milkman.


What, you don't like the current shmashmortion of a cardboard container that used to open into a triangle pour spout, but now has a round screw cap jammed awkwardly near the top?


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## Fading Fast

Since we all seemed to enjoy the coke one from yesterday. Love the iconic press pass in the hat band look.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Since we all seemed to enjoy the coke one from yesterday. Love the iconic press pass in the hat band look.
> View attachment 57681


Two other details I appreciate are the impeccable and timeless look of his collar, tie, and jacket and the reasonable size of his Coke. The Big Gulp was still far in the future.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Since we all seemed to enjoy the coke one from yesterday. Love the iconic press pass in the hat band look.
> View attachment 57681


Do you remember those old chest type Coca-Cola dispensers, with the bottle opener screwed on the front corner of the case. The bottles were suspended on rails near the top of the case and you had to slide the bottle to the end to pull out your cold refreshing bottle of Coke! It would be so cool to have one of those classic chests sitting in the corner of my study.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Two other details I appreciate are the impeccable and timeless look of his collar, tie, and jacket and the reasonable size of his Coke. The Big Gulp was still far in the future.


Plus the collar pin or bar (hard to tell). And yes, there was a time when we didn't super-size everything.



eagle2250 said:


> Do you remember those old chest type Coca-Cola dispensers, with the bottle opener screwed on the front corner of the case. The bottles were suspended on rails near the top of the case and you had to slide the bottle to the end to pull out your cold refreshing bottle of Coke! It would be so cool to have one of those classic chests sitting in the corner of my study.


I remember those and the ones where you'd see the coke bottles through a long and narrow glass door. There is a very large collectors market for those machines with a lot of them out there as restoration guys pull them out of junk yards and restore them. They aren't inexpensive, but depending on your budget, aren't crazy either and are available. All this I've learned over the years from watching shows on the History channel.


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> Yes.
> 
> Speaking of classic beverage containers, milk isn't really milk unless it was poured from a glass bottle that had been delivered early in the morning by the milkman.


And now you can get Milk from either the bagel store or your local supermarket.


----------



## Andrew Christopher

Fading Fast said:


> I remember those and the ones where you'd see the coke bottles through a long and narrow glass door. There is a very large collectors market for those machines with a lot of them out there as restoration guys pull them out of junk yards and restore them. They aren't inexpensive, but depending on your budget, aren't crazy either and are available. All this I've learned over the years from watching shows on the History channel.


There was one of those types in my church (of all places) when I was a kid in the mid/late 80s. It was already a relic by that point.

I'll always remember my grandfather giving me change every Sunday after church to buy a cold Dr. Pepper in a glass bottle.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Plus the collar pin or bar (hard to tell). And yes, there was a time when we didn't super-size everything.
> 
> I remember those and the ones where you'd see the coke bottles through a long and narrow glass door. There is a very large collectors market for those machines with a lot of them out there as restoration guys pull them out of junk yards and restore them. They aren't inexpensive, but depending on your budget, aren't crazy either and are available. All this I've learned over the years from watching shows on the History channel.


Those older style cooler chests for soft drinks and longnecks are pretty common in the more kitschy BBQ and burger joints around here.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another fun Coke one. Note the implied rise in his trousers based on where the belt hits versus the suit jacket's buttons.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Another fun Coke one. Note the implied rise in his trousers based on where the belt hits versus the suit jacket's buttons.
> View attachment 57736


Great illustration that brings back cherished memories. I miss the preponderance of Coca-Cola and other sodas in glass bottles. How many of us can recall collecting empty bottles to turn in for pocket change...or perhaps just a chilled bottle of Coke? As to the rise you note in those trousers...now that's what I am looking for, but finding not! (Heavy sigh.)


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57780


What an enjoyable illustration. Looking back I can remember our two daughters being at the ready to help us get ready, when we were going to some special occasion. Egad, now that they are all grown up, married and raising their own families, it's hard to find good help and I am frequently left to my own devices when getting ready to go! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

That is so lovely! Can't help thinking that there aren't that many grownups these days who would know how to tie a bow tie, let alone kids.

Some years ago, I was talking about skill learning in one of my classes on cognitive psychology, and I told my students that the basic skills one learned in childhood could often be applied to related tasks later on in life. I was wearing one of my usual uniforms: a tweed sports jacket and a bow tie, with grey flannels and burgundy laceups. So I pointed to my shoes and my tie and said that the procedure involved in tying my shoe laces, learned early in my life, was directly applicable to tying my bow tie. 

The steps involved making a loop with one end of the lace or the tie, and then folding the other end over and in, then out. Finally that end would get tucked into the knot, and both ends would be pulled out. I showed them how to do this by retying the lace on one of my shoes. Then I asked for a volunteer and undid my bow tie. I showed how it should be tied on the neck of the volunteer, a young lady who was eager to be the professor's model, LOL. The class actually applauded at the end, although it was a simple thing to do.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> What an enjoyable illustration. Looking back I can remember our two daughters being at the ready to help us get ready, when we were going to some special occasion. Egad, now that they are all grown up, married and raising their own families, it's hard to find good help and I am frequently left to my own devices when getting ready to go! LOL.


Do they come and visit?


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## Howard




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## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


>


The guys wearing shorts have signs taped on their backs that say, "Kick me."


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> That is so lovely! Can't help thinking that there aren't that many grownups these days who would know how to tie a bow tie, let alone kids.
> 
> Some years ago, I was talking about skill learning in one of my classes on cognitive psychology, and I told my students that the basic skills one learned in childhood could often be applied to related tasks later on in life. I was wearing one of my usual uniforms: a tweed sports jacket and a bow tie, with grey flannels and burgundy laceups. So I pointed to my shoes and my tie and said that the procedure involved in tying my shoe laces, learned early in my life, was directly applicable to tying my bow tie.
> 
> The steps involved making a loop with one end of the lace or the tie, and then folding the other end over and in, then out. Finally that end would get tucked into the knot, and both ends would be pulled out. I showed them how to do this by retying the lace on one of my shoes. Then I asked for a volunteer and undid my bow tie. I showed how it should be tied on the neck of the volunteer, a young lady who was eager to be the professor's model, LOL. The class actually applauded at the end, although it was a simple thing to do.


I still remember my first time wearing a bowtie, a black tie moment in high school. My father handed me one of my grandfather's black ties and told me just to tie a bow. It is that easy. I find tying a bowtie in front of a mirror makes it harder. I just tie it without looking, pull it trim, and look in the mirror only to confirm it looks right.


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## drpeter

Exactly. And it should, of course, never be perfectly even, there should be an air of _deshabille_ about it.


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## Fading Fast




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## Peak and Pine

1904, eight years before the Titanic, German born J. C. Leyendecker now painting in America and the greatest of the great, came up with this. Note the military style cap on woman, with cockade, a little Prussian touch.

Oops, framing cut off the whole cap, try it again...


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## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Note the military style cap on woman, with cockade, a little Prussian touch.


Likely gearing up and kitting out for WWI, LOL. Start with the peaked cap and the rest will follow.

It's an apt metaphor. Europe was on the deck of a Titanic, a soon-to-be-sinking political ship. The prosperity ushered in by the industrial revolution was to be capped with the horrors of mechanized warfare. But the lessons were not learned too well, were they? World War No 2 was to follow.


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## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Likely gearing up and kitting out for WWI, LOL. Start with the peaked cap and the rest will follow.
> 
> It's an apt metaphor. Europe was on the deck of a Titanic, a soon-to-be-sinking political ship. The prosperity ushered in by the industrial revolution was to be capped with the horrors of mechanized warfare. But the lessons were not learned too well, were they? World War No 2 was to follow.


For those who love history but also enjoy murder mysteries, I highly recommend Jacqueline Winspear's Maisie Dobbs series, taking you through the period just before WW I and, in the latest book, up to the entering of the war by the USA. The intimate picture of life in the UK during those events is superb. The details are on a par with Leyendecker's illustrations.


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## eagle2250

Howard said:


> Do they come and visit?


The older daughter and her family live just a half mile from us and join us for a family dinner almost every Sunday. The younger daughter and her family live a 10 to 11 hour drive away fro us, so we see them a lot less frequently, but we do the best we can do!.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> For those who love history but also enjoy murder mysteries, I highly recommend Jacqueline Winspear's Maisie Dobbs series, taking you through the period just before WW I and, in the latest book, up to the entering of the war by the USA. The intimate picture of life in the UK during those events is superb. The details are on a par with Leyendecker's illustrations.


Thanks, TKI, I've heard of this series, and they will join my queue of future reading material.

In the same vein, the _Babylon Berlin_ TV series from Germany is also excellent -- the series is based on a set of _romans policiers_ written by Volker Kutscher. They are set during the last years of the Weimar Republic, as the Nazis start gaining power.

The interwar years in England and Europe were interesting ones. Berlin, as a city, was an intriguing, bawdy, and sometimes dreadful place.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Thanks, TKI, I've heard of this series, and they will join my queue of future reading material.
> 
> In the same vein, the _Babylon Berlin_ TV series from Germany is also excellent -- the series is based on a set of _romans policiers_ written by Volker Kutscher. They are set during the last years of the Weimar Republic, as the Nazis start gaining power.
> 
> The interwar years in England and Europe were interesting ones. Berlin, as a city, was an intriguing, bawdy, and sometimes dreadful place.


Agreed, it's an outstanding show. Besides the engaging stories, it is insanely visually appealing. The clothes are a lot of fun for AAAC members as is the architecture.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed, it's an outstanding show.


Fades, I presume you are referring to _Babylon Berlin_. As far as I know, the Maisie Dobbs mysteries have not been made into a TV series or films, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Fades, I presume you are referring to _Babylon Berlin_. As far as I know, the Maisie Dobbs mysteries have not been made into a TV series or films, but I could be wrong.


Yes, I was referring to "Babylon Berlin."


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## drpeter

Just discovered that the Maisie Dobbs books had been considered for a film (or maybe even a TV series?) in 2015. No idea what became of it.


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## Fading Fast




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## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Just discovered that the Maisie Dobbs books had been considered for a film (or maybe even a TV series?) in 2015. No idea what became of it.


I would love such a series. In my mind's eye I have already cast Tuppence Middleton as Maisie.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Bit late for "_Le Froid Viendra_", LOL. "_Le printemps est arrivé_" would be more like it!


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Vecchio Vespa

Why did we grow up? That kid looks dressed for fun.


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## drpeter

LOL. That kid is wearing my summer uniform, except for the shoes and socks. I usually wear a T shirt, shorts and sandals in warm weather. Occasionally, trousers and shirt.


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## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> LOL. That kid is wearing my summer uniform, except for the shoes and socks. I usually wear a T shirt, shorts and sandals in warm weather. Occasionally, trousers and shirt.


Likewise. I do remember that at that age wearing beat up oxfords and socks was actually great for playing in the streets. My beat up oxfords of choice from about fourth grade were white bucks, very stained with grass and dirt.


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## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57942


I'd sure love to adopt a dog.


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## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> I'd sure love to adopt a dog.


They are wonderful, but having just returned from walking mine in the rain I assure you they are not 100% fun 100% of the time. Oh, and he woke me up at 0430 wanting breakfast.


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## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> They are wonderful, but having just retuned from walking mine in the rain I assure you they are not 100% fun 100% of the time. Oh, and he woke me up at 0430 wanting breakfast.


Yup, we love our guy, but you take the good with the bad with dogs.


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## Howard

TKI67 said:


> They are wonderful, but having just returned from walking mine in the rain I assure you they are not 100% fun 100% of the time. Oh, and he woke me up at 0430 wanting breakfast.


What kind of dog was it?


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## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> What kind of dog was it?


He is an English setter, like the one who is my avatar (her name was Opal) only black and white (his names is Hopps). He is a nine year old rescue, but he came from the same breeder as Opal, Feathers English Setters. They are very energetic outdoors and love to chase birds and squirrels. They are extremely gentle. Indoors he is like furniture except when he is being fed.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> He is an English setter, like the one who is my avatar (her name was Opal) only black and white (his names is Hopps). He is a nine year old rescue, but he came from the same breeder as Opal, Feathers English Setters. They are very energetic outdoors and love to chase birds and squirrels. They are extremely gentle. Indoors he is like furniture except when he is being fed.


That's cute.


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## Fading Fast




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## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> Yup, we love our guy, but you take the good with the bad with dogs.


What kind of dog do you own?


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## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> What kind of dog do you own?


An English Springer Spaniel.


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## Fading Fast




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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> An English Springer Spaniel.
> View attachment 57992


Now, now Faders, how can you not tell us the name of this splendid animal?


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## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58020


Even back when guys wore such things, wearing the outfit with rolled cuffs, red shoes, and goofy cap would have embarrassed me.


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## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Now, now Faders, how can you not tell us the name of this splendid animal


Finny ("Phineas" when he's being bad and "Finn" for short). He's a really good boy.



TKI67 said:


> Even back when guys wore such things, wearing the outfit with rolled cuffs, red shoes, and goofy cap would have embarrassed me.


I did like that his jeans are (I think) belted back. I understand what you are saying, but for me, it's hard to say as when something is very common it starts to "feel" different.

There are some things I just don't like no matter how "common -" bit loafers and very short sport coats - but as the "skinny" look has become the norm this past decade, what looks "right" to my eye is a slimmer (not skinny) suit than before.

And then there's the enviroment you are in. His outfit might look goofy going to school (or not), but could be fine on a boat. In a beach town, I'd stroll to the store in a Hawaiian shirt (a milder one, but still), a pair of shorts and espadrilles, but in NYC, even when hot as heck, I'd feel silly wearing that outfit.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> An English Springer Spaniel.
> View attachment 57992


What's his/her name?


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58020


Hope they don't drink too much.


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## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> What's his/her name?


Finny ("Phineas" when he's being bad and "Finn" for short). He's a really good boy.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> Finny ("Phineas" when he's being bad and "Finn" for short). He's a really good boy.


How old is he?


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> How old is he?


In that picture, eleven I think, he turns 13 next week.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58109


Do you have a diet Coke in that bowl of ice? I has to be at least a couple of decades since I hagt the high test version of a soft drink of any brand! LOL.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58109


They don't all expect Coke, do they?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Do you have a diet Coke in that bowl of ice? I has to be at least a couple of decades since I hagt the high test version of a soft drink of any brand! LOL.


I don't drink a lot of soda, but like you, diet Coke is a favorite. I haven't had a stand-alone real Coke in a long time. That said, I do have real Coke when I have a rum and coke, which should be coming up soon as we enter summer-drink season.



Howard said:


> They don't all expect Coke, do they?


That's the goal of Coke's advertising. You are correct Howard, they all don't want Coke, but the Coca-Cola Company wants to create that impression in its advertising.


----------



## Charles Dana

eagle2250 said:


> Do you have a diet Coke in that bowl of ice? I has to be at least a couple of decades since I hagt the high test version of a soft drink of any brand! LOL.


No Diet Coke. Given the era, those seeking a diet cola at that party would have looked for ginger ale under the "No-Cal" brand. A few years later, Diet Rite would have filled the bill, then Tab.


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## Vecchio Vespa

I have never liked diet drinks because they trigger migraines for me and my wife. BTW a six ounce Coke is only 63 calories, about the same as a single chicken nugget with no ketchup or dipping sauce!


----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> I have never liked diet drinks because they trigger migraines for me and my wife. BTW a six ounce Coke is only 63 calories, about the same as a single chicken nugget with no ketchup or dipping sauce!


I thought Diet Coke had less calories than Regular Coke?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> I thought Diet Coke had less calories than Regular Coke?


It does, but if you drink a reasonably sized regular Coke it is not a huge number of calories.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Constantin Alajálov, Armenian-American artist, immigrated from Russia shortly after the Russian revolution, at the age of 23. A fascinating life, a talented artist. Painted covers for both _The New Yorker_ and _The Saturday Evening Post_.

The cover shows an older couple eating in a train -- late in the evening, perhaps -- surrounded by sleeping passengers. March 24th, interestingly was the date of Operation Varsity, the final major push into Germany by the Allies, under Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery.

https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/artists/constantin-alajalov/


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## Howard

TKI67 said:


> It does, but if you drink a reasonably sized regular Coke it is not a huge number of calories.


Our Family is trying to do away with drinking sodas but maybe once in a while I will drink them, we've been drinking more water and flavored drinks.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58173


Wow, the way they dressed looked so much different in 1945 compared to now in 2021.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> Our Family is trying to do away with drinking sodas but maybe once in a while I will drink them, we've been drinking more water and flavored drinks.


You really cannot beat Adam's Ale (water).


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58173


Mr. and Mrs. Thurston Howell III.

Pre-island.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Howard said:


> Wow, the way they dressed looked so much different in 1945 compared to now in 2021.


It looked different in 1945 too, if you're referring to the highlighted couple in the first row. I know a little, very little, about 1945 (being two months old when that New Yorker came out).

Those first row boors remind of a glimpse back to the 80s in DC where I worked for a dozen years. At a Roy Rogers fast food restaurant on a Sunday morning at the next table was a stately looking elderly couple. The woman was seated while the man went to order (and old fashioned and likeable custom), meanwhile the lady reached into her handbag and pulled out real silverware (!) and arranged it neatly into two place settings on the tiny formica table.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> You really cannot beat Adam's Ale (water).


We used to call water by that name when I was a kid!


----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> You really cannot beat Adam's Ale (water).


Does that come in different flavors?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Howard said:


> Does that come in different flavors?


What was so funny, that was a question, some seltzers come in diferent flavors.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> What was so funny, that was a question, some seltzers come in diferent flavors.


sorry...I misunderstood. Of course water is just water, but they add all manner of things nowadays, bubbles, fruit juices, vitamins, electrolytes. However, I figure Adam did not have a selection and just had plain old water. Plain old water is my favorite.


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> I have never liked diet drinks because they trigger migraines for me and my wife. BTW a six ounce Coke is only 63 calories, about the same as a single chicken nugget with no ketchup or dipping sauce!


Yours is a very persuasive comparison! Well done. LOL.


----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> sorry...I misunderstood. Of course water is just water, but they add all manner of things nowadays, bubbles, fruit juices, vitamins, electrolytes. However, I figure Adam did not have a selection and just had plain old water. Plain old water is my favorite.


I also like those Crystal Light powders you can pour into the water, shake the bottle and later on enjoy after it was in the refrigerator for a few hours.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> I also like those Crystal Light powders you can pour into the water, shake the bottle and later on enjoy after it was in the refrigerator for a few hours.


Sadly they give me headaches.

:0(


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> Sadly they give me headaches.
> 
> :0(


Do you drink other beverages?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> Do you drink other beverages?


Coffee in the morning, black. Water in the midday. Occasionally an espresso, an oat milk cafe latte, or a cappuccino around tea time, occasionally tea at tea time, some sort of drink before dinner (one old fashioned, martini, beer, gin and tonic, or wine...negroni or Manhattan now and then), and back to water after dinner. Sometimes an after dinner brandy or limoncello. Arnold Palmers in restaurants or on the golf course. Now and then something bubbly like a small ginger ale or a Coke. Root beer at places that have really good root beer. Big Red with barbecue. Home made lemonade in Vietnamese restaurants with ca phe sua da for dessert. V-8/with Cholula for a snack.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58258


Great illustration...and I believe that was General George Armstrong Custer's favorite shirt.....an Arrow! LOL.


----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> Coffee in the morning, black. Water in the midday. Occasionally an espresso, an oat milk cafe latte, or a cappuccino around tea time, occasionally tea at tea time, some sort of drink before dinner (one old fashioned, martini, beer, gin and tonic, or wine...negroni or Manhattan now and then), and back to water after dinner. Sometimes an after dinner brandy or limoncello. Arnold Palmers in restaurants or on the golf course. Now and then something bubbly like a small ginger ale or a Coke. Root beer at places that have really good root beer. Big Red with barbecue. Home made lemonade in Vietnamese restaurants with ca phe sua da for dessert. V-8/with Cholula for a snack.


I drink coffee in the morning and sometimes once more in the afternoon so I don't wind up overdosing on so much caffeine I cut it off after 2 cups a day, water in the afternoon for lunch and dinner.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> I drink coffee in the morning and sometimes once more in the afternoon so I don't wind up overdosing on so much caffeine I cut it off after 2 cups a day, water in the afternoon for lunch and dinner.


You are wise to have that routine!


----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> You are wise to have that routine!


I'm trying to cut down on a lot of caffeine since I get so jittery sometimes and now I'm trying to drink more water and less soda these days.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58306


Now come on! I'd like to think it was so, but did we ever really look that good? I'm pretty sure Mrs Eagle did and am sure many of your significant others did as well, but young men never have been or never will be that nicely polished. However, we did know enough to keep the soles of our shoes off such a pristinely maintained classic automobile. Just sayin.....


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Now come on! I'd like to think it was so, but did we ever really look that good? I'm pretty sure Mrs Eagle did and am sure many of your significant others did as well, but young men never have been or never will be that nicely polished. However, we did know enough to keep the soles of our shoes off such a pristinely maintained classic automobile. Just sayin.....


I don't think the young lady in the picture is a "Mrs." Anybody, except for a night.

He does look sharp.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58306


I'm betting it's Havana--for several reasons.


----------



## Peak and Pine

It is Havana and it's a stylized '55 Buick against which they lean.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> I don't think the young lady in the picture is a "Mrs." Anybody, except for a night.
> 
> He does look sharp.


That was my take, a 'lady of negotiable affection'. Reportedly to this day the trade is among the city's greatest sources of foreign revenue.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> It is Havana and it's a stylized '55 Buick against which they lean.


That was my take as well, especially given the building in the background with the winged figure. Plus the tropical ambience, the '55 Buick, the white suit.

The winged figure is the angel Nike, the Greek goddess of speed and strength (and, more recently, of sneakers and trainers). A quick check of landmarks in Havana revealed this lovely image of the Grand Theatre Tower in Havana:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58408


If he hurts the little guy with that needle, Fido is going top bite the Doctor a new one! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58451


Thank you for remembering our fallen, those who gave all.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Thank you for remembering our fallen, those who gave all.


Having never done anything more than "registered" at the post office when I was seventeen in 1981, I have incredible respect and gratitude for all those who have served. I know I've lived safely in this country because of their service and sacrifice.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

And a distaff bonus, because it's fun to see an all but timeless dress. My guess, this ad is from the '20s or '30s, but that dress could still be worn today.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58519
> 
> 
> And a distaff bonus, because it's fun to see an all but timeless dress. My guess, this ad is from the '20s or '30s, but that dress could still be worn today.
> View attachment 58520


Style is timeless and fashion is passing. That old adage is normally used in reference to men's style and not specifically women's style. However in the examples above it does seem to apply to women's style, as well. Alas, it has been well over two decades since I have been able to convince Mrs Eagle to slip into her old Poodle Shirt and the Cable Knit sweater that went so well with it. It's probably lying hidden away somewhere in the hoard, and by now, largely consumed by moths! :crazy:


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> and by now, largely consumed by moths!


Wool thou art, and to wool thou returnest? I am thinking of the clothes disintegrating to bits of wool as the moths ravage them. It's a striking image and another comment on style and clothes: Vanity of vanities... LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Style is timeless and fashion is passing. That old adage is normally used in reference to men's style and not specifically women's style. However in the examples above it does seem to apply to women's style, as well. Alas, it has been well over two decades since I have been able to convince Mrs Eagle to slip into her old Poodle Shirt and the Cable Knit sweater that went so well with it. It's probably lying hidden away somewhere in the hoard, and by now, largely consumed by moths! :crazy:


My girlfriend, no surprise, tries to dress in a timeless style. In her closet, now, are several iteration of that dress.

As you correctly imply, women's clothes suffer even more from fashion obsolescence than men's, but there still are a lot of 20th Century styles going strong in women's clothes.

Perhaps, not a surprise, but for women, the clothes that have become classic are often what were the clothes worn by the "average" woman - like that dress - and not the high-end stuff.

I see it in old movies all the time where the women's fancy clothes would look ridiculous if worn today, but the clothes worn by the average housewife or secretary would look fine today.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

A nice DB coat, looks like a pea coat based on the collar and buttons, but can't quite tell because the length is hard to discern.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> A nice DB coat, looks like a pea coat based on the collar and, but can't quite tell because the length is hard to discern.


A bridge coat maybe, because of the buttons. Whatever, posted in the wrong thread. Heavy posters can get confused. The Polo thread is over there. This is for _llustrations_ like this...










But maybe we should have a pea coat thread, starting with this...










...and ending with this*...








*

...and whatever's in between.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58568


When Mrs Eagle and I were completing our five mile walk yesterday, enduring close to 90 degree air temps, still air and a bright, full sun beating down on us, we could have used a couple of those parasols! However, that navy Peacoat and the Tennis Sweater worn beneath just wouldn't work in these parts. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> When Mrs Eagle and I were completing our five mile walk yesterday, enduring close to 90 degree air temps, still air and a bright, full sun beating down on us, we could have used a couple of those parasols! However, that navy Peacoat and the Tennis Sweater worn beneath just wouldn't work in these parts. LOL.


But you could enjoy zipping around FL in that fun-looking sports car in the background.

Just realized I posted the wrong pic here, a Ralph one in the "Illustrations" thread - oops and sorry - this was supposed to be today's illustration pic:


----------



## Fading Fast

Feel like a new "retro" illustration to me, but the clothes and shoes are pretty neat.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Feel like a new "retro" illustration to me, but the clothes and shoes are pretty neat.
> View attachment 58586


That illustration so elegantly depicts the notable difference in the emotional maturity of teenage boys and girls. Indeed, the sexes, at that point in their lives are in two very different worlds! LOL.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> Feel like a new "retro" illustration to me, but the clothes and shoes are pretty neat.
> View attachment 58586


My guess that this was taken in 1955.


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> My guess that this was taken in 1955.


You may be right Howard as that was the year "Rebel Without a Cause" was released.

But the illustration has so many iconic items - the movie we just referenced, a poodle skirt, the letterman sweater, the two-tone car - that it feels to me like a modern illustration intended to look like it's from the '50s.

Also, the artist's style, while I can't put my finger on why, doesn't feel original to the '50s to me. That just my guess.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> But the illustration has so many iconic items - the movie we just referenced, a poodle skirt, the letterman sweater, the two-tone car - that it feels to me like a modern illustration intended to look like it's from the '50s.
> 
> Also, the artist's style, while I can't put my finger on why, doesn't feel original to the '50s to me. That just my guess.


I agree with you. The illustration does seem like a pastiche rather than a contemporaneous work. Plus, nothing about the young lady's hairstyle says "1955."


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

A bonus pic for today. This is the cover from a fun-as-heck pulp novel, *What Makes Sammy Run?* I just finished (comments on the book here:  #899 ).


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58636


When I am blessed to come upon an old classic movie in black and white on TV, I am, perhaps, oddly contented. I felt much the same way when the black and white illustration pictured above popped up. Boy, I really want to turn back the clock to the 1950's.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> When I am blessed to come upon an old classic movie in black and white on TV, I am, perhaps, oddly contented. I felt much the same way when the black and white illustration pictured above popped up. Boy, I really want to turn back the clock to the 1950's.


Do you have a favorite black and white film?


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> Do you have a favorite black and white film?


Not a favorite, per se, but most recently, based on member Fading Fast's
review and recommendation, Mrs Eagle and I recently watched the movie titled Possessed, starring Joan Crawford and Van Heflin. a great suspenseful drama/film, made more ominous by the black and white format.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I thought Dr. Strangelove did an amazingly fine job of using black and white. It was a palpable character.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> When I am blessed to come upon an old classic movie in black and white on TV, I am, perhaps, oddly contented. I felt much the same way when the black and white illustration pictured above popped up. Boy, I really want to turn back the clock to the 1950's.


Like you, I love black and white movies and illustrations.



eagle2250 said:


> Not a favorite, per se, but most recently, based on member Fading Fast's
> review and recommendation, Mrs Eagle and I recently watched the movie titled Possessed, starring Joan Crawford and Van Heflin. a great suspenseful drama/film, made more ominous by the black and white format.


Glad to hear you enjoyed it. It's fun for what it is.


----------



## ran23

Nosferatu. favorite


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

The lady seems to be rushing to get on board as the train starts to move. The way the steam seems to be coming out is a bit odd, unless they are very close to the locomotive engine. The rust and grey colours intersecting at an angle on the body of the coach also seems puzzling. A great action painting. Movement and anxiety are both captured very well.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58675


Perhaps the fellow wearing the hat and holding the Trench coat hopped on board and left the little woman behind, missing the train. Boy is he ever going to pay for that oversight! LOL. It is a great illustration, with countless stories to tell.


----------



## Howard

drpeter said:


> The lady seems to be rushing to get on board as the train starts to move. The way the steam seems to be coming out is a bit odd, unless they are very close to the locomotive engine. The rust and grey colours intersecting at an angle on the body of the coach also seems puzzling. A great action painting. Movement and anxiety are both captured very well.


Hope she caught her train on time?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The lady seems to be rushing to get on board as the train starts to move. The way the steam seems to be coming out is a bit odd, unless they are very close to the locomotive engine. The rust and grey colours intersecting at an angle on the body of the coach also seems puzzling. A great action painting. Movement and anxiety are both captured very well.


Some of the old steam engines used to also have steam breaks, which would produce steam from "under" the train car, but I don't know (I didn't think so, but it very well could be) if they used steam breaks on the passenger cars. If so, that could account for steam coming up that way.

And yes, the rust and grey colors meet in an odd way. I initially thought it was just a shadow, but I think you are correct and it is painted that way.



eagle2250 said:


> Perhaps the fellow wearing the hat and holding the Trench coat hopped on board and left the little woman behind, missing the train. Boy is he ever going to pay for that oversight! LOL. It is a great illustration, with countless stories to tell.


My guess, you are like me and have been hard wired to let your wife/girlfriend (or any woman) go first, so it just wouldn't happen, but if it did, the best move, at that point, would be to leave her behind and find a new wife or girlfriend when you got off.


----------



## drpeter

What about wiring her ( a telegram ) from the next station and apologizing profusely?


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> What about wiring her ( a telegram ) from the next station and apologizing profusely?


Speaking from experience, I've found that extreme grovelling is an excellent survival/conflict resolution technique. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58681


I know it may seem gauche, but I'm one to drink my Coco Cola straight from the bottle...the same way I drink my Guinness Extra Stout, straight from the bottle!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I know it may seem gauche, but I'm one to drink my Coco Cola straight from the bottle...the same way I drink my Guinness Extra Stout, straight from the bottle!


Nothing better than a hot day and a cold glass bottle of Coke pulled from a big metal tub filled with ice sitting out front the store: you walk inside, pay, pop the top with the store's bottle opener, walk out and drink right from the now-sweating bottle.


----------



## Howard

drpeter said:


> What about wiring her ( a telegram ) from the next station and apologizing profusely?


Or just typing it on a typewriter?


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> I know it may seem gauche, but I'm one to drink my Coco Cola straight from the bottle...the same way I drink my Guinness Extra Stout, straight from the bottle!


I sometimes drink it in a cup.


----------



## drpeter

I've been watching test cricket these last few days, with New Zealand touring England. The first test was at Lord's cricket stadium and the camera would often pan the medium-sized crowd that had gathered to watch the match. Many of them had bottles of iced champagne they were consuming prior to a picnic-style lunch, others were drinking beer from bottles and glasses, and at least one fellow had a steel stirrup cup, likely with Pimm's No. 1 in it.

New Zealand performed admirably well, but England managed to sustain a resistance -- the match was drawn because after five days of play, and one day lost to rain, the time was up. NZ was leading the score by quite a lot, but those are the breaks. NZ opening batsman Devon Conway, a debut test player at Lord's, scored a double century, 200 runs, broke various records, and batted from the start of the first innings until the end. Spectacular cricket indeed!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## drpeter

I wonder if "motorcycle" was deliberately misspelt as part of a brand name. The one ancient Indian motorcycle I had some experience with had a stick shift for changing gears!

Apparently they are still making the bikes:

https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/motorcycles/


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58715


What are those people waiting for?


----------



## fishertw

Howard said:


> What are those people waiting for?


The guy to hit the golf ball.


----------



## Howard

fishertw said:


> The guy to hit the golf ball.


I thought it was something else.


----------



## Oldsarge

Note the Bean boots in the foreground and the Russell's on the lady in the rear.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58773


LOL. You can tell the lady is not amused. To be quite honest, I find myself dropping food on my jacket or shirt front rather more often as I have got older. I suppose I'll chalk it up to general decline.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 58751
> 
> 
> Note the Bean boots in the foreground and the Russell's on the lady in the rear.


What a great way to spend a weekend. Does anyone still go out camping in a tent. The wife and I do, but rarely these days. When we get friends involved in the effort, they always want to take their travel trailer. Alas, it is just not the same!


----------



## Howard

drpeter said:


> LOL. You can tell the lady is not amused. To be quite honest, I find myself dropping food on my jacket or shirt front rather more often as I have got older. I suppose I'll chalk it up to general decline.


We're all pigs sometimes, we all drop food on our shirts and we clean it up afterwards.


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> What a great way to spend a weekend. Does anyone still go out camping in a tent. The wife and I do, but rarely these days. When we get friends involved in the effort, they always want to take their travel trailer. Alas, it is just not the same!


I'm getting the travel trailer. A shower before bed, at my age, is no longer a luxury. After all, deer season is two weeks long.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58789


I can't help but wish more fellows wore fedoras on a regular basis...it just finishes the look so many of us are hoping to achieve!


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> I can't help but wish more fellows wore fedoras on a regular basis...it just finishes the look so many of us are hoping to achieve!


Yeah, he looks so handsome.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58862


He must be going on a business trip somewhere.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58862


Great illustration, but I must point out, that has got to be a polyester suit to look that unwrinkled at the arrival end of a flight. LOL!


----------



## Fading Fast

And since, for some reason, I didn't post one yesterday, a bonus one for today:


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58961
> 
> 
> And since, for some reason, I didn't post one yesterday, a bonus one for today:
> View attachment 58962


What did those meals consist of, were they gourmet ones?


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> What did those meals consist of, were they gourmet ones?


Since I never road on trains back in their heyday, the '20s - '60s (I was born in '64), I can only tell you what I've read, which is in the US, on the "premiere" trains, the meals were what you'd encounter in a nice upscale restaurant, but not gourmet in the true sense of the word.

To be sure, different train lines had different meals and I'd bet there were some examples of gourmet dishes served, but in general, it seems like the railroads were serving good upscale food - steak, chicken, fish, potatoes, vegetables, etc., - but not fancy gourmet food.

Howard, if you Google "train menus for the 1930s" or '40s, etc., you can get a sense of what they served. Here's one example: https://www.iridetheharlemline.com/...kets-and-menus-from-the-20th-century-limited/


----------



## Oldsarge

That's a pretty good description of what we ate on the Rocky Mountaineer in Canada. If you dream of the great old days of train travel, try one of their excursions.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Classic. My ideal blazer has only four buttons, like this one. If there are two more, they should be in a straight line with each column (similar to Navy uniforms), not placed farther out. These are not easy to find.

I should remove the top pair of buttons from one or two of my blazers and see how that works -- I don't think the balance of the jacket would be altered in any way by this removal.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Classic. My ideal blazer has only four buttons, like this one. If there are two more, they should be in a straight line with each column (similar to Navy uniforms), not placed farther out. These are not easy to find.
> 
> I should remove the top pair of buttons from one or two of my blazers and see how that works -- I don't think the balance of the jacket would be altered in any way by this removal.


My ideal blazer has three, only the middle one being useable!

I agree with your take on the DB with four. Since DBs must be worn buttoned or look slovenly, I always find that the top two being more widely spaced on a six button jacket gives the impression, even if inaccurate, of being too tight in the chest.

BTW I like the yellow sweater or vest peeking out a very nice touch, and it would not work nearly as well on a six button DB IMO.


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> My ideal blazer has three, only the middle one being useable!
> 
> I agree with your take on the DB with four. Since DBs must be worn buttoned or look slovenly, I always find that the top two being more widely spaced on a six button jacket gives the impression, even if inaccurate, of being too tight in the chest.
> 
> BTW I like the yellow sweater or vest peeking out a very nice touch, and it would not work nearly as well on a six button DB IMO.


Good eye, my friend. I missed that yellow sweater entirely!


----------



## drpeter

Ditto, I missed that sweater too!!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59054


Can't help but noticing that the gentleman has pretty much destroyed that kitchen, but did you notice he is wearing a popover shirt with those gabs with the sewn in belt and the stylish tie. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59054


What happened to the photo?


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> What happened to the photo?


I'm sorry Howard, I'm not sure what you are asking?


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> I'm sorry Howard, I'm not sure what you are asking?


I'm saying that I don't see the photo, the area I see is just blank.


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> I'm saying that I don't see the photo, the area I see is just blank.


Well that's odd. I can still see it. Is anyone else not seeing the pic?


----------



## Oldsarge

I see it and don't sympathize with the idiot one iota. The first time my wife went to St. Louis for training on a new lab machine she returned to find the house clean, the kids still bathed and healthy and dinner on the table. She was hurt! How dare I be so competent by myself? I told her that if I had wanted a housekeeper, I'd hire one. I didn't marry her for that!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> Well that's odd. I can still see it. Is anyone else not seeing the pic?


That's OK, I won't worry about it.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Well that's odd. I can still see it. Is anyone else not seeing the pic?


The picture shows on my screen as well. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59170


I think this picture shows a great dichotomy for today's era.

The coat on the left, with flap pockets, button stance, and colour, is borderline unwearable.

The coat on the right could be far more easily worn with almost any outfit due to the more casual patch pockets and slouchier button stance and lapels.

Dieworkwear on styleforum made a great point about polo coats as well. The slouchier the details, the better.

The Duke had arguably the best looking polo coat. Look how low the button stance is, and how open the chest is as well. This is very rare to find on a coat.










Where it loses me is that half his torso is pretty exposed to the elements.

This problem could be solved by buying a pretty voluminous and large scarf though, like this one


----------



## Fading Fast

delicious_scent said:


> I think this picture shows a great dichotomy for today's era.
> 
> The coat on the left, with flap pockets, button stance, and colour, is borderline unwearable.
> 
> The coat on the right could be far more easily worn with almost any outfit due to the more casual patch pockets and slouchier button stance and lapels.
> 
> Dieworkwear on styleforum made a great point about polo coats as well. The slouchier the details, the better.
> 
> The Duke had arguably the best looking polo coat. Look how low the button stance is, and how open the chest is as well. This is very rare to find on a coat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where it loses me is that half his torso is pretty exposed to the elements.
> 
> This problem could be solved by buying a pretty voluminous and large scarf though, like this one


You make a lot of good and interesting points and observations. Is it the formality of the coat on the left that causes you to say it is almost unwearable?

The DOW's coat is beautiful, but agree that you need a wide scarf. I think I'd prefer it to close a bit higher on the torso, but still, his is an incredible coat.

With a few overcoats sitting in my closet that get little use, I'm not going to buy a polo coat, but it is one of the classic items of clothing I wish I had owned once in my life.

I'm 57 and would buy one tomorrow if we still lived in the world, but they are very expensive and it just wouldn't get enough wear to justify it.

When I met my girlfriend two decades ago, she was wearing one on her 5'11" frame. She and her coat made a very good first impression.


----------



## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> You make a lot of good and interesting points and observations. Is it the formality of the coat on the left that causes you to say it is almost unwearable?
> 
> The DOW's coat is beautiful, but agree that you need a wide scarf. I think I'd prefer it to close a bit higher on the torso, but still, his is an incredible coat.
> 
> With a few overcoats sitting in my closet that get little use, I'm not going to buy a polo coat, but it is one of the classic items of clothing I wish I had owned once in my life.
> 
> I'm 57 and would buy one tomorrow if we still lived in the world, but they are very expensive and it just wouldn't get enough wear to justify it.
> 
> When I met my girlfriend two decades ago, she was wearing one on her 5'11" frame. She and her coat made a very good first impression.


Essentially, yes. I can't see any remotely casual outfit being worn with the left coat, and that's what reigns in today's world.

The right coat, I can see even just a turtleneck being worn.

Now that I type that, one could argue you could do the same with the more formal coat. Wearing a scarf, no one could tell what you have on underneath. I'd still prefer the right coat because it looks inherently more casual.

I agree that a slightly higher closure would be preferable on the DoW coat, an icy wind can get rid of all warmth with that open of a chest, big scarf or not.

Yeah, I recall our discussion about polo/camel coats. Beautiful garments, but not something that works in my wardrobe for all the reasons you mentioned.

A 5'11 woman wearing a polo coat would make for a stunning impression indeed, thanks for sharing that memory. I wonder if she still has or wears it?


----------



## Fading Fast

delicious_scent said:


> Essentially, yes. I can't see any remotely casual outfit being worn with the left coat, and that's what reigns in today's world.
> 
> The right coat, I can see even just a turtleneck being worn.
> 
> Now that I type that, one could argue you could do the same with the more formal coat. Wearing a scarf, no one could tell what you have on underneath. I'd still prefer the right coat because it looks inherently more casual.
> 
> I agree that a slightly higher closure would be preferable on the DoW coat, an icy wind can get rid of all warmth with that open of a chest, big scarf or not.
> 
> Yeah, I recall our discussion about polo/camel coats. Beautiful garments, but not something that works in my wardrobe for all the reasons you mentioned.
> 
> A 5'11 woman wearing a polo coat would make for a stunning impression indeed, thanks for sharing that memory. I wonder if she still has or wears it?


We started dating back in '97 and that coat was with us (and she wore it regularly every winter) until an apartment building basement fire in 2016, where we were storing many of our clothes during a renovation of our apartment (you can't make this stuff up), took it and a lot of articles of clothing from us.

It's been on our "replacement list" since, but she just hasn't found the one she wants, plus we have been replacing other items, so it's not as if we've been singularly focused on replacing the polo coat.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> Essentially, yes. I can't see any remotely casual outfit being worn with the left coat, and that's what reigns in today's world.
> 
> The right coat, I can see even just a turtleneck being worn.
> 
> Now that I type that, one could argue you could do the same with the more formal coat. Wearing a scarf, no one could tell what you have on underneath. I'd still prefer the right coat because it looks inherently more casual.
> 
> I agree that a slightly higher closure would be preferable on the DoW coat, an icy wind can get rid of all warmth with that open of a chest, big scarf or not.
> 
> Yeah, I recall our discussion about polo/camel coats. Beautiful garments, but not something that works in my wardrobe for all the reasons you mentioned.
> 
> A 5'11 woman wearing a polo coat would make for a stunning impression indeed, thanks for sharing that memory. I wonder if she still has or wears it?


An interesting discussion. I have quite a few polo coats which I too wear less often these days, but mainly because, being retired, I have few occasions to dress formally.

That said, however, I have no qualms at all about combining formal pieces with informal ones. I pay more attention to colours, textures and materials and I believe the right combination of these aspects can create an attractive look regardless of the identity of the actual pieces, or even their vintage.

For instance, if the formal "left coat" in Faders' picture is combined with a dark brown Harris tweed sports jacket that is also flecked with a bit of rust and olive, and a blue open collar shirt with a subdued but slightly brighter ascot or scarf, I think it would work well. Grey flannels and burgundy brogues would complement the picture.

There was a time when people would have been taken aback by the combination of formal or dressy items with casual, informal ones. But that view has changed considerably. We combine sports coats with casual khakis and blue jeans almost routinely -- such looks are accepted fully. I've even put on a slightly beat-up, old dinner jacket with good quality khakis and elicited interest and approval, LOL. In such a combination, one can "dress down" the dinner jacket, by selecting one that is older and worn, and "dress up" the trousers by choosing material like a wool cavalry twill rather than plain cotton drill.

What I am suggesting is that there is a pretty decent range within each category of clothing (like dinner jackets or khakis) that permits nuanced movement within that range. And by moving the formal "down" and the informal "up" within their ranges, one can marry what might previously have been thought unmarriageable, LOL.

As for the Duke's style, I would have trouble with that coat for myself -- the lapels are far too large for my taste and the button stance far too low. Even with a big scarf for protection from the elements, it would not look good for me -- too much scarf, making me look like a Croat in full cry on a battlefield. On a horse, to boot.


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## Fading Fast




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## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> We started dating back in '97 and that coat was with us (and she wore it regularly every winter) until an apartment building basement fire in 2016, where we were storing many of our clothes during a renovation of our apartment (you can't make this stuff up), took it and a lot of articles of clothing from us.
> 
> It's been on our "replacement list" since, but she just hasn't found the one she wants, plus we have been replacing other items, so it's not as if we've been singularly focused on replacing the polo coat.


That must be pretty heartbreaking, I'm sorry that happened F_F.

I think it's pretty cool you two have been together for so long though and still have each other. The past year definitely has me terrified of losing people.

Makes sense on focusing on other priorities first for items.


----------



## 215339

drpeter said:


> An interesting discussion. I have quite a few polo coats which I too wear less often these days, but mainly because, being retired, I have few occasions to dress formally.
> 
> That said, however, I have no qualms at all about combining formal pieces with informal ones. I pay more attention to colours, textures and materials and I believe the right combination of these aspects can create an attractive look regardless of the identity of the actual pieces, or even their vintage.
> 
> For instance, if the formal "left coat" in Faders' picture is combined with a dark brown Harris tweed sports jacket that is also flecked with a bit of rust and olive, and a blue open collar shirt with a subdued but slightly brighter ascot or scarf, I think it would work well. Grey flannels and burgundy brogues would complement the picture.
> 
> There was a time when people would have been taken aback by the combination of formal or dressy items with casual, informal ones. But that view has changed considerably. We combine sports coats with casual khakis and blue jeans almost routinely -- such looks are accepted fully. I've even put on a slightly beat-up, old dinner jacket with good quality khakis and elicited interest and approval, LOL. In such a combination, one can "dress down" the dinner jacket, by selecting one that is older and worn, and "dress up" the trousers by choosing material like a wool cavalry twill rather than plain cotton drill.
> 
> What I am suggesting is that there is a pretty decent range within each category of clothing (like dinner jackets or khakis) that permits nuanced movement within that range. And by moving the formal "down" and the informal "up" within their ranges, one can marry what might previously have been thought unmarriageable, LOL.
> 
> As for the Duke's style, I would have trouble with that coat for myself -- the lapels are far too large for my taste and the button stance far too low. Even with a big scarf for protection from the elements, it would not look good for me -- too much scarf, making me look like a Croat in full cry on a battlefield. On a horse, to boot.


Ah, I should have been more specific. By casual, I meant anything from just a button down, to a sweater.

I agree that a tweed jacket and flannels would likely work well with the more formal coat.

I'd love to see those casual dinner jacket combos if possible, I think that's very relevant in today's era. I think tailoring will survive for the enthusiast market at least; I now have a "fun suit" in olive green linen I'm excited to wear.

The buttoning points on these coats are a bit different, but still strikes me as being very formal

















I've never actually seen informal pairings with these coats, so I'm having trouble imagining it.

Though I recall Simon from PS wearing a nice monochrome outfit, it could easily be transplanted on this same coat. Basically the same idea I was trying to convey with the casual camel coat, but now I realize it could easily work with the more formal guard's coat(?) as well.










Dark turtleneck, grey trousers.


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## Fading Fast

delicious_scent said:


> That must be pretty heartbreaking, I'm sorry that happened F_F.
> 
> I think it's pretty cool you two have been together for so long though and still have each other. The past year definitely has me terrified of losing people.
> 
> Makes sense on focusing on other priorities first for items.


Thank you. While frustrating, the fire was pretty bad so we were and are grateful no one was hurt or worse and the damage was limited to the basement (and some smoke damage a couple of floors up).

It was one of those times when you have to recognize (as you noted about last year) what really matters.

I'm far from perfect and have had a moment now and then of frustration about this or that lost item, but then remind myself to see the bigger picture.

We are in our twenty-fourth year together and, in addition to being a couple, are each other's best friend, which is something we're are both really grateful for. So you take the blows life throws and try and stand back up - we all go through it.

One day, we'll find a replacement polo coat for her and it will be a fun and joyous purchase to make. Thank you again for your kind words.


----------



## drpeter

Fades, having a companion to support you through the difficult times is absolutely priceless. I hope you both continue to soldier on through thick and thin, if that's the right expression!


----------



## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> Though I recall Simon from PS wearing a nice monochrome outfit, it could easily be transplanted on this same coat


Yes, that was along the lines of the general point I was trying to convey. I think one must simply trust one's judgment and combine colours and textures and cloth, and simply have confidence that the ensemble will work. The idea of dressing down the more formal piece and dressing up the less formal one simply helps to achieve a balance, so that the contrast isn't overly stark.

The lion's share of dressing well is confidence. If you have the self-assurance that your judgment about how you look is valid and in good taste, then others who see you will pick up on that confidence. That judgment will develop over time if you acquire and wear clothes with careful attention paid to each item you add to your wardrobe.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast




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## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59497


With--spats?


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59601


A young and beautiful lady casts her wiles upon the lake of love...and another young man is smitten! Fishing...understanding the mysteries of love is part and parcel of understanding the art of fishing. Nuff said.


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59642


Truth be known, a young man in love has got to use whatever props are available, at that time to woo the classic beauty of his choice. In this present instance our young hero has chosen a book of fourteen line love poems to sweep her off her feet and make her heart his very own. However back in the day with the future Mrs Eagle, to impress her, I would take her out to watch the moonlit elephant walks of the alert B52's, taxiing out of the Christmas Tree parking apron to roll down the runway and then back to the alert area. At this late date, I can't remember whether I identified more with Jimmy Stewart, as LtC Dutch Holland in the movie Strategic Air Command or Slim Pickens, as Major King Kong riding the bomb down to target in Dr. Strangelove during those experiences. Mrs Eagle remains my classic beauty to this day and the beloved B52 continues to fly at the tip of the spear, defending this country against her enemies, two examples of enduring beauty to my eyes!


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## Fading Fast




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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59723


The ghosting effect makes for a rather unusual , as well as interesting sales illustration. Certainly draws one's attention to the details of the garments and footwear.


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## Oldsarge

His facial expression is pretty ghosty, too.


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## Fading Fast




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## Fading Fast

And since you only see some of his ⇧ outfit, let's do two today.


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## drpeter

Vespas were immensely popular in India in the 1960s and 1970s. The other Italian scooter was Lambretta. The Vespa scooter was, like many motorcycles, almost a family vehicle -- Dad, Mum and a couple of small kids could all fit on one!

Personally, I preferred motorcycles, sometimes with a sidecar. The wheels of the scooters were small, and so I felt that they were not as stable as motorcycles which usually had larger wheels.

Interesting that the Indonesian advert shows an image with people who look European.


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## Fading Fast




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## Peak and Pine




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## drpeter

We're beginning to get a glimpse of the dark depths of the Peakster's psyche. Macabre and horrifying! What other eldritch thoughts might be lurking in there, I wonder? Or perhaps he has been reading too many Lovecraftian tales, holed up in his den in Maine? The face of that child blowing out the candles already shows the beginnings of an other-worldly transformation into one of the ancient ones of Cthulhu...


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60208


"A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away" I dated a stewardess, who worked for American Airlines. I can't honestly claim the relationship was as hot and racy as that promised by the adults only novel, Flight Girl, but it was obviously a precursor to better days and even better relationships!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> "A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away" I dated a stewardess, who worked for American Airlines. I can't honestly claim the relationship was as hot and racy as that promised by the adults only novel, Flight Girl, but it was obviously a precursor to better days and even better relationships!


No kidding, like you, long ago, I dated a stewardess for American Eagle which was a budget airline within the American Airline family. We would get together when she was in town with extra time. We even took some long weekend trips together when our schedules allowed.

What this generation might not get is that we hardly talked between visits. There was no text, email, etc., back then and, in her job, she wasn't sitting at a phone and, as a bond trader, I rarely took personal calls at work.

So, we'd get together, hang out for a few days and, then, months could go by until we'd have any contact (I think she sent me a postcard now and then). It was fun in a "each time was like a mini vacation" way. I sometimes wonder what happened to her as that was twenty-five years ago.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> No kidding, like you, long ago, I dated a stewardess for American Eagle which was a budget airline within the American Airline family. We would get together when she was in town with extra time. We even took some long weekend trips together when our schedules allowed.
> 
> What this generation might not get is that we hardly talked between visits. There was no text, email, etc., back then and, in her job, she wasn't sitting at a phone and, as a bond trader, I rarely took personal calls at work.
> 
> So, we'd get together, hang out for a few days and, then, months could go by until we'd have any contact (I think she sent me a postcard now and then). It was fun in a "each time was like a mini vacation" way. I sometimes wonder what happened to her as that was twenty-five years ago.


I dated my stewardess longer before she bacame a stewardess than after she was on the job. American Airlines plucked her out of the little burg of Woolrich, PA, sent her off to Texas for training and then based her out of New York, NY. As I recall, we went out on three (maybe four) dates after she was on the job. I was a college student and getting together was just too complicated and way too expensive for a full time student, with a couple of part time jobs. LOL.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60260


Clearly the illustration is a straight forward pitch...it is a good looking suit and I certainly wish I could wear such a rig as elegantly as the gentleman in the picture. Then things get complicated, as I am distracted by the greenery in the upper tight hand corner and I must ask...why is it there? :icon_scratch:


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Clearly the illustration is a straight forward pitch...it is a good looking suit and I certainly wish I could wear such a rig as elegantly as the gentleman in the picture. Then things get complicated, as I am distracted by the greenery in the upper tight hand corner and I must ask...why is it there? :icon_scratch:


It's hard to tell exactly where it hits because he's sitting, but what struck me in this one, beyond it being just a nice classic suit, is how much I prefer the longer cut of the suit jackets back then (or pre early '00s when the modern shorter cut became the norm).

I get that this is only about the length of a suit (and sport) jacket, and it's probably all just opinion, but to my eye, the longer cuts look more natural and proportional.

I have no idea why the green is there as there was no context to this pic when I found it.


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## Oldsarge




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## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 60292


I love the coat and it wouldn't take much to convince me that I feel the same way about the fedora, but truth be known, I never in my life dressed that well to go out and walk the dog! LOL.


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## Fading Fast




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## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60327


Why does his shadow look like a dog, and why is his right shoulder shaded but not his left?


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## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Why does his shadow look like a dog, and why is his right shoulder shaded but not his left?


The artist's skills were limited?


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## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> The artist's skills were limited?


Indeed! Note the lady's shadow makes her look like a Tuning Fork. Not a complimentary look, for sure. LOL.


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## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Why does his shadow look like a dog, and why is his right shoulder shaded but not his left?


Could it be that the hat brim is casting a shadow on the right shoulder (angle of the sun, etc.)?
No idea why the shadow looks like a dog.


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## Oldsarge

If you follow the light, these folk live in a planetary system with two suns. One hits their bodies the other hits the gentleman's fedora.


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## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> It's hard to tell exactly where it hits because he's sitting, but what struck me in this one, beyond it being just a nice classic suit, is how much I prefer the longer cut of the suit jackets back then (or pre early '00s when the modern shorter cut became the norm).
> 
> I get that this is only about the length of a suit (and sport) jacket, and it's probably all just opinion, but to my eye, the longer cuts look more natural and proportional.
> 
> I have no idea why the green is there as there was no context to this pic when I found it.


Member Alan_Bee from SF had an interesting jacket makeup that is much longer than anything I've seen outside of an illustration. I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but it does have a certain appeal.


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## Fading Fast

delicious_scent said:


> Member Alan_Bee from SF had an interesting jacket makeup that is much longer than anything I've seen outside of an illustration. I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but it does have a certain appeal.


Based on where it hits versus his hands, it looks like a pretty tradition (pre-'00s length); although, on his torso, it looks a touch long to my eye, but that's hard to say with his leg bent like that.

Again, pre the '00s, that jacket's length would not raise an eyebrow. I think the hacking jacket style pockets make the skirt of the jacket look long, but again, the overall length seems about right for pre '00.

Big picture, IMO, jacket lengths in this ball park look better than the much shorter cuts of today.


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## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> Based on where it hits versus his hands, it looks like a pretty tradition (pre-'00s length); although, on his torso, it looks a touch long to my eye, but that's hard to say with his leg bent like that.
> 
> Again, pre the '00s, that jacket's length would not raise an eyebrow. I think the hacking jacket style pockets make the skirt of the jacket look long, but again, the overall length seems about right for pre '00.
> 
> Big picture, IMO, jacket lengths in this ball park look better than the much shorter cuts of today.


Interesting, I've no real life reference point, so this is not something I'm at all used to...outside of Apparel Arts illustrations.

It looks cool, but I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing it, too far into 'vintage' territory for me.


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## Oldsarge

Being quite sure no one notices how I dress, I'd be quite comfortable in a jacket like that.


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## drpeter

I have jackets of different lengths and my regular (or reference) length is 30" measured from the point just where the collar meets the body in the back, to the hem of the jacket., I am comfortable with an inch above or below that number, but more than 1.5" and it begins to look too long or too short to my eyes.

I have also had varying amounts of success shortening jackets. Even with a very fine alterations tailor like Mr Vang, anything greater than an inch is probably going to be ruinous. Button stance, and pocket height will be affected, and these modifications can alter the balance of the jacket in a bad way!

Independent of someone's specific body proportions, I think the jacket and trousers need to have a balance with each other. If one of these is too short or too long relative to the other, the ensemble as a whole looks off balance. This fact has to be factored into considerations related to torso, leg and arm length for the wearer. It gets complicated, especially if one's body deviates from the standard proportions used by manufacturers of RTW jackets, trousers and suits.

By the way, Alan Flusser's _Style and the Man_, has a good discussion of these matters, as I recall. It has been some time since I read it, though.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another one to keep our lively conversation about suit-jacket lengths going.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Another one to keep our lively conversation about suit-jacket lengths going.
> View attachment 60387


Reminds me of my old boss.


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## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Another one to keep our lively conversation about suit-jacket lengths going.
> View attachment 60387


The Kenton, The Madden, The Lockhart, The Somerset, The Duryea. I wonder if suit models have all been named after places or people in the British Isles. Many of the shoe models in many the old shoe companies, like Allen Edmonds, carried distinctly British names: MacNeill. McAllister, Barclay, Leeds, Morgan, and so forth. AE did have American locales like Saratoga and Park Avenue too. Perhaps this trend is an indication of what we, as a culture, think of as names that represent elegance and sophistication.

I wonder if we have models of suits, shoes and other items named after some of the other places in the world from which people immigrated to this country. Are there clothing items named after places in Germany or Italy or France, for instance? These were all countries from which there was early and substantial immigration to the United States.

When I first came to this country. I was struck by how much Americans seemed to hold up France and French culture as the pinnacle of sophistication. Perhaps this was in gratitude to the French who helped America during the revolutionary war. Or maybe because France and Paris were associated with _haute couture_. On the other hand, it was fashionable in France (at least during the latter part of the last century) to look down upon America!

Interestingly enough, there is at least one item the French named using a Sanskrit word: A perfume called _Samsara_. The word means the cycle of births and deaths in the material world, literally the flow through the world.


----------



## Flanderian

delicious_scent said:


> Member Alan_Bee from SF had an interesting jacket makeup that is much longer than anything I've seen outside of an illustration. I'm still not sure how I feel about it, but it does have a certain appeal.


Love the whole ensemble! :loveyou:

Might have it an 1" shorter, but I'd rather it a smidge long than what's currently fashionable.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> The Kenton, The Madden, The Lockhart, The Somerset, The Duryea. I wonder if suit models have all been named after places or people in the British Isles. Many of the shoe models in many the old shoe companies, like Allen Edmonds, carried distinctly British names: MacNeill. McAllister, Barclay, Leeds, Morgan, and so forth. AE did have American locales like Saratoga and Park Avenue too. Perhaps this trend is an indication of what we, as a culture, think of as names that represent elegance and sophistication.
> 
> I wonder if we have models of suits, shoes and other items named after some of the other places in the world from which people immigrated to this country. Are there clothing items named after places in Germany or Italy or France, for instance? These were all countries from which there was early and substantial immigration to the United States.
> 
> When I first came to this country. I was struck by how much Americans seemed to hold up France and French culture as the pinnacle of sophistication. Perhaps this was in gratitude to the French who helped America during the revolutionary war. Or maybe because France and Paris were associated with _haute couture_. On the other hand, it was fashionable in France (at least during the latter part of the last century) to look down upon America!
> 
> Interestingly enough, there is at least one item the French named using a Sanskrit word: A perfume called _Samsara_. The word means the cycle of births and deaths in the material world, literally the flow through the world.


Don't you find 563 or 986 just as catchy, though?


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 60413


Really good one, looks, '20s or early '30s


----------



## Fading Fast

Traditional-length-jacket week continues.


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## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 60413


That's got to be a picture of students at Texas A&M...look at the Senior Boots worn by the guy at the top of the steps....yes, no?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Traditional-length-jacket week continues.
> View attachment 60432


Love it! Particularly enjoy the cloth swatches.



eagle2250 said:


> That's got to be a picture of students at Texas A&M...look at the Senior Boots worn by the guy at the top of the steps....yes, no?


Lacking familiarity with the customs of Texas A&M, I see simply riding boots. :crazy:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

^^
Gary Cooper. Swell. But that's a photograph, not an illustration. And it's not an ad. Or am I missing something there?

Back to the illustrations...










My Italian is not very good, but I think that's saying, _ Lookit me, casually packing my cigarette as I strike a pose in this ridiculous tomato suit while my 80 year old valet struggles to hold open my 15-pound overcoat. _


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 60439


Once again, our man Coop.

The vest and tie are a bit much together, but Coop is very young here. As he matured, he learned to tone it down some, but still, always an interesting dresser. Note the flap on the breast pocket.

If you can find a reasonably priced copy, this is a fun book about his style:


----------



## Fading Fast

Closing out traditional-length jacket week.


----------



## Peak and Pine

This is from 1948 and I believe the illustration is very good, particularly the intricate drapáge of the many folds and creases in the fabric, something which must bore or stymie many illustrators for they leave it out. Fire the copy writer (The Coolest Man in Life?) and either put an A before _Coronado_ or an S after _suit _.










_*This post certified Gary Cooper free. _


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> Once again, our man Coop.
> 
> The vest and tie are a bit much together, but Coop is very young here. As he matured, he learned to tone it down some, but still, always an interesting dresser. Note the flap on the breast pocket.
> 
> If you can find a reasonably priced copy, this is a fun book about his style:
> View attachment 60452


His name was mentioned in a song, "Putting On The Ritz".


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> This is from 1948 and I believe the illustration is very good, particularly the intricate drapáge of the many folds and creases in the fabric, something which must bore or stymie many illustrators for they leave it out. Fire the copy writer (The Coolest Man in Life?) and either put an A before _Coronado_ or an S after _suit _.
> 
> View attachment 60476
> 
> 
> _*This post certified Gary Cooper free. _


Go with the suit, but burn that tie! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Once again, our man Coop.
> 
> The vest and tie are a bit much together, but Coop is very young here. As he matured, he learned to tone it down some, but still, always an interesting dresser. Note the flap on the breast pocket.
> 
> If you can find a reasonably priced copy, this is a fun book about his style:
> View attachment 60452


As I glance into the library, (A pile of books in the corner which my wife has not yet made me send to the thrift shop.) what should I spy with my little eye?! 

A quick check of Amazon shows sellers asking from $112 for used, and $175 for new.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Closing out traditional-length jacket week.
> View attachment 60474


Exceptional! Architype of the genre! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

But I think I might have to forego the Bolero bottom!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> As I glance into the library, (A pile of books in the corner which my wife has not yet made me send to the thrift shop.) what should I spy with my little eye?!
> 
> A quick check of Amazon shows sellers asking from $112 for used, and $175 for new.


I bought it when it came out and it was (from memory) ~$75, which I'm sure I grumbled about at the time. It's a nice book - heavy stock paper, etc. - but honestly, I don't get why it has gone up in price other than the usual, I guess it didn't sell a lot of copies at the time, so there's not much "secondary" supply. Keep your eye on eBay as sometimes books like this pop up for more reasonable prices over there.


----------



## Peak and Pine

This is so bad It becomes giggly good, for at first glance it looks professionally composed and painted, then you put on your specs and realize the artist does not understand the concept of a breast pocket and in no way would HSM attach one big enough to hold an iPad which was yet to be invented. We're in 1952 here.










So just what is this smirking creep doing fully suited up on a sunny day at the beach? And fooling with a Polaroid? Snapping pics of scantily clad babes, the fatty on the towel praying he'll take hers?

Mom completely ignores her kid dangling a fish in her face while dressed like a _Hesperus_ boatswain, makes goo goos at the over dressed perv, sticks hands in pocket (in swimwear?) reaching for her smokes, and will contribute to beach litter as she will grind her butt out into the sand. Possibly. This ad does not encourage me to buy HSM. Not only because it blows nickles, but because I was seven years old in '52. Besides, back then I was a Hickey Freeman man. Boy.
.
_*This post certified Gary Cooper free._


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I bought it when it came out and it was (from memory) ~$75, which I'm sure I grumbled about at the time. It's a nice book - heavy stock paper, etc. - but honestly, I don't get why it has gone up in price other than the usual, I guess it didn't sell a lot of copies at the time, so there's not much "secondary" supply. Keep your eye on eBay as sometimes books like this pop up for more reasonable prices over there.


The market for book buying and selling is arcane.

I've related before how during his life my brother published a variety of titles all on railroads, I believe all on steam, and mostly about the Pennsylvania Rail Road. The text content and the photos they contained were indistinguishable to me, but the books sold, and are *still* being sold on Amazon.

When I once inquired how this was possible, he explained that while the market is very, very narrow, it is equally deep, so that purchasers will eagerly gobble up another book on the same subject.

I think the same is true for sartorial hobbyists. (Or at least this one! ) Too bad they were far more modest in their pricing than the market may have born, but it was a different era.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> The market for book buying and selling is arcane.
> 
> I've related before how during his life my brother published a variety of titles all on railroads, I believe all on steam, and mostly about the Pennsylvania Rail Road. The text content and the photos they contained were indistinguishable to me, but the books sold, and are *still* being sold on Amazon.
> 
> When I once inquired how this was possible, he explained that while the market is very, very narrow, it is equally deep, so that purchasers will eagerly gobble up another book on the same subject.
> 
> I think the same is true for sartorial hobbyists. (Or at least this one! ) Too bad they were far more modest in their pricing than the market may have born, but it was a different era.


Embarrassingly, I have a full shelf of sartorial books and a full shelf of railroad books. I don't buy many of either any more, but for awhile, I was probably a pretty good customer of your brother's.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Embarrassingly, I have a full shelf of sartorial books and a full shelf of railroad books. I don't buy many of either any more, but for awhile, I was probably a pretty good customer of your brother's.


I think no embarrassment should be entailed. I was taught to venerate books and reading; and stacks of books, magazines and exceptional catalogs are IMHO one of the great pleasures of life. (Irrespective of how sloppily I store them! ) Can't bear to part with many.

I double checked what books Amazon had of my brothers' for sale, and it looks like they're all now used. As mentioned, he's sadly long gone, and his wife who was a partner certainly couldn't be active any longer either.

I'll PM some titles to you that are on Amazon, but I doubt you'll have ever heard of them, they're that esoteric.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I think no embarrassment should be entailed. I was taught to venerate books and reading; and stacks of books, magazines and exceptional catalogs are IMHO one of the great pleasures of life. (Irrespective of how sloppily I store them! ) Can't bear to part with many.
> 
> I double checked what books Amazon had of my brothers' for sale, and it looks like they're all now used. As mentioned, he's sadly long gone, and his wife who was a partner certainly couldn't be active any longer either.
> 
> I'll PM some titles to you that are on Amazon, but I doubt you'll have ever heard of them, they're that esoteric.


Thank you, I PM'ed you back.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> This is so bad It becomes giggly good, for at first glance it looks professionally composed and painted, then you put on your specs and realize the artist does not understand the concept of a breast pocket and in no way would HSM attach one big enough to hold an iPad which was yet to be invented. We're in 1952 here.
> 
> View attachment 60478
> 
> 
> So just what is this smirking creep doing fully suited up on a sunny day at the beach? And fooling with a Polaroid? Snapping pics of scantily clad babes, the fatty on the towel praying he'll take hers?
> 
> Mom completely ignores her kid dangling a fish in her face while dressed like a _Hesperus_ boatswain, makes goo goos at the over dressed perv, sticks hands in pocket (in swimwear?) reaching for her smokes, and will contribute to beach litter as she will grind her butt out into the sand. Possibly. This ad does not encourage me to buy HSM. Not only because it blows nickles, but because I was seven years old in '52. Besides, back then I was a Hickey Freeman man. Boy.
> .
> _*This post certified Gary Cooper free._


Love your interpretation of the illustration. but is that a polaroid he has in hand....or is it a Leica, Point and Shoot camera. Men in suits just don't carry polaroids...yes, no?


----------



## Flanderian

The mate to above.


----------



## Peak and Pine

This ad accomplishes what it sets out to do. Think of Relax Dad, not Business Dad, and show a mini catalogue of gift ideas. Of course the most prominent idea is a hammock, but MacGregor's not selling those.










Each of the eight gift ideas has its own little pic and description and since what Hammock Dad is wearing is one of the ideas, I think it would show better if Hammock Dad were turned 90°










*This post certified Gary Cooper free.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Traditional-length-jacket week continues.
> View attachment 60432


I so much prefer that length. Was watching the last released Bond movie recently-Spectre-and was struck by how short Craig's suit jacket was, hitting the tops of his thighs.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I so much prefer that length. Was watching the last released Bond movie recently-Spectre-and was struck by how short Craig's suit jacket was, hitting the tops of his thighs.


I agree. What I don't know is if my opinion is simply that, just an opinion? Does all the blah, blah, blah about "proportion" to body torso, "closing" the triangle, covering the butt, etc., truly reflects some objective "better" aesthetic to traditional-length jackets or is it just justification for the look I like?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> The mate to above.
> 
> View attachment 60522


Is that really the color of their skin?


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Once again, our man Coop.
> 
> The vest and tie are a bit much together, but Coop is very young here. As he matured, he learned to tone it down some, but still, always an interesting dresser. Note the flap on the breast pocket.
> 
> If you can find a reasonably priced copy, this is a fun book about his style:
> View attachment 60452


Great book. One of three volumes by Bruce Boyer, the others include one on Fred Astaire Style and another on Rebel Style. I have all three in my library.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> As I glance into the library, (A pile of books in the corner which my wife has not yet made me send to the thrift shop.) what should I spy with my little eye?!
> 
> A quick check of Amazon shows sellers asking from $112 for used, and $175 for new.


Good heavens! I bought it when it first came out, for $30 or so, can't recollect exactly. Maybe it was more expensive,


----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> Is that really the color of their skin?


LOL, Maybe the artist Tibor Kalman had a hand in this! Some years ago, he painted Queen Elizabeth with dark skin for the magazine _Colors_ put out by Benetton.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Great book. One of three volumes by Bruce Boyer, the others include one on Fred Astaire Style and another on Rebel Style. I have all three in my library.


I did not know that. I'll have to look into the others now.



drpeter said:


> Good heavens! I bought it when it first came out, for $30 or so, can't recollect exactly. Maybe it was more expensive,


I bought it right when it came out and thought, from memory (so I absolutely could be wrong), it was around $75, which is expensive IMO, but not so crazy expensive that I wouldn't have bought it. That said, you may be correct and I might be confusing it with another book. There is no price on the book or the sleeve it came it - at least none that I could find.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> The mate to above.
> 
> View attachment 60522


Isn't that George Hamilton's father?


----------



## drpeter

I checked Boyer's other two "Style" books, and they are slim volumes, but with no price marked. The Coop book is somewhere else, and I have to search for it. Some of my older books are on shelves that are currently blocked by tall piles of books acquired more recently! Some day, it will all get organized...


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Great book. One of three volumes by Bruce Boyer, the others include one on Fred Astaire Style and another on Rebel Style. I have all three in my library.


I just bought both books, one in "Excellent" condition and the other "Very Fine" from well-rated sellers on ABE books, which I have been buying from for well over a decade and have only had one small problem in all that time (and I buy a lot of books on ABE).

Here's the punchline: the two books combined cost $22 with shipping - Astaire $15 / Rebel $7.

Yet, the Cooper book is north of $100 on ABE (phew, I'm glad I already own that one).

As you note, the two I just bought look "less substantial" than the Cooper book.


----------



## drpeter

Great! I too have used Abe Books extensively in the past, acquiring first printings and first editions. These days, I rarely do any online purchasing, after many of my accounts got hacked. One lives and learns.


----------



## Peak and Pine

This thread needs to be cleaned up. It's either about illustrations of clothing or It's not. For unexplained reasons a photograph of Gary Cooper gets planted here. It's questioned (by me), but not withdrawn and goes on to engender an entire conversation about Cooper and books about Cooper. Okay, so I'm a tight a** about on-topic conversations, real life and here. A reminder, this thread is not about clothes period. It's about the _illustration _of clothes. And if you check my last two posts here you'll see they go into detail about the illustration part.

Now the good news, Andy is having a sale on threads this week. They're free. Go start one for Gary Cooper and one for railroad books. I may start one for vintage clothing ads done with illustration, 'cause I'm outta this one.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> This thread needs to be cleaned up. It's either about illustrations of clothing or It's not. For unexplained reasons a photograph of Gary Cooper gets planted here. It's questioned (by me), but not withdrawn and goes on to engender an entire conversation about Cooper and books about Cooper. Okay, so I'm a tight a** about on-topic conversations, real life and here. A reminder, this thread is not about clothes period. It's about the _illustration _of clothes. And if you check my last two posts here you'll see they go into detail about the illustration part.
> 
> Now the good news, Andy is having a sale on threads this week. They're free. Go start one for Gary Cooper and one for railroad books. I may start one for vintage clothing ads done with illustration, 'cause I'm outta this one.


Relax. It's only a digression. What you seek will surely circle back, like that giant brook trout that always comes back to check out the fly you proffered but never hits it! How about some illustrations of people dressed for fishing, bonus points if they are working a small stream with dry flies!


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> This thread needs to be cleaned up. It's either about illustrations of clothing or It's not. For unexplained reasons a photograph of Gary Cooper gets planted here. It's questioned (by me), but not withdrawn and goes on to engender an entire conversation about Cooper and books about Cooper. Okay, so I'm a tight a** about on-topic conversations, real life and here. A reminder, this thread is not about clothes period. It's about the _illustration _of clothes. And if you check my last two posts here you'll see they go into detail about the illustration part.
> 
> Now the good news, Andy is having a sale on threads this week. They're free. Go start one for Gary Cooper and one for railroad books. I may start one for vintage clothing ads done with illustration, 'cause I'm outta this one.


While the Threads in our forums are mostly subject driven, it is the nature of such friendly conversations to meander a bit, adding spice to the brew to explore related points of interest. The original conversations always seem to find their way back to the Threads stated topic It frequently makes the conversations more interesting....no harm, no foul!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60527


Exceptional!


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Is that really the color of their skin?


It is. These guys have been swimming laps in a vat of bronzer!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I did not know that. I'll have to look into the others now.
> 
> I bought it right when it came out and thought, from memory (so I absolutely could be wrong), it was around $75, which is expensive IMO, but not so crazy expensive that I wouldn't have bought it. That said, you may be correct and I might be confusing it with another book. There is no price on the book or the sleeve it came it - at least none that I could find.


I believe I purchased mine on a subscription basis. I remember $50, but it may have been $75. Though I'm sure it eventually heavily discounted through retailers.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I believe I purchased mine on a subscription basis. I remember $50, but it may have been $75. Though I'm sure it eventually heavily discounted through retailers.


I can't find my receipt for it and, as noted, as opposed to many books, there is no price on the inside cover, etc.

I asked my girlfriend and she said she thought it was $90. Then I found this site, gary-cooper-enduring-style, which supports her memory. She's a smart woman. But again, this is all memory and prices today, it's not proof positive.

Usually, you are spot on that the retailers discount them a lot, but (again, from memory) that didn't happen (or, at least, I didn't see it) with this one. We bought a friend, who works in fashion, a copy (she gushed over our copy when she saw it) and, am pretty sure, we paid full price even then, after it had been out for awhile.

Since then, anytime I've looked, the used-book-market price for a decent copy has always been over $100.

Who knows, this could just be the odd one-off, I see it occasionally with other books, or it could come down in price in the future.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I can't find my receipt for it and, as noted, as opposed to many books, there is no price on the inside cover, etc.
> 
> I asked my girlfriend and she said she thought it was $90. Then I found this site, gary-cooper-enduring-style, which supports her memory. She's a smart woman. But again, this is all memory and prices today, it's not proof positive.
> 
> Usually, you are spot on that the retailers discount them a lot, but (again, from memory) that didn't happen (or, at least, I didn't see it) with this one. We bought a friend, who works in fashion, a copy (she gushed over our copy when she saw it) and, am pretty sure, we paid full price even then, after it had been out for awhile.
> 
> Since then, anytime I've looked, the used-book-market price for a decent copy has always been over $100.
> 
> Who knows, this could just be the odd one-off, I see it occasionally with other books, or it could come down in price in the future.


I'm not sure of the former price food chain for mass market books, but I think it might go subscription price, full retail price, (less) discounted retail price. There's apparently now a collector's market in effect, as there is for _*Men in Style*_*.*


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> It is. These guys have been swimming laps in a vat of bronzer!


They look like George Hamilton.


----------



## drpeter

Human desires and motives are fascinating. In the countries where most people have darker skin, there are all sorts of products sold for making the skin lighter or fairer. In the countries where people have lighter skin, on the other hand, there is a great urge to darken the skin, by tanning in the sun, or even using various tanning facilities, or bronzing agents. The general wisdom is that this is a fundamental aspect of human nature: We never seem to be happy with what we have, but hanker after what we don't have!

Just before spring break, my standard wisecrack to the kids in my classes who were about to head for the beaches down south: Hey kids, I don't need to go anywhere, I have a built-in tan that will always be with me. They laughed politely, these are nice midwestern kids. But then, I realized that I too get tanned, but during the summer. It's what we here in the heartland call a Farmer's Tan. My forearms are much darker as the summer progresses, and they begin to look like those chaps in that advert up there.

Or like George Hamilton, LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> They look like George Hamilton.


Well, at least he isn't orange!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Well, at least he isn't orange!
> 
> View attachment 60597











or look like Cosmo Kramer.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 60531


Those spray on tanning solutions can be a bit tricky in the application. LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60599


Based solely on the look on her face and the placement of her hands on her hips suggests to me that she has attitude and that our hero is about to be blindsided! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 60619


Looks like Apparel Arts - the nonpareil of clothing illustrations where even the darn suitcase looks appealing.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Looks like Apparel Arts - the nonpareil of clothing illustrations where even the darn suitcase looks appealing.


'tis.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Tweedlover

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 60625


Now that looks like a British club scene circa 1940's or so.


----------



## Fading Fast

This is one of my favorite clothing illustration of them all. I'd love to find a better copy and also any detail about its history, but so far, this is the best copy I could find and I haven't been able to find out anything about its history.

In 2012, when the Fashion Institute of Technology did a show on Ivy Style, it used this illustrations - weirdly altered as shown below - for its brochure.


----------



## drpeter

Faders, I am not sure if you found this out already, but take a peek at this webpage:

https://thecarycollection.com/products/ivy-style-1
The second illustration you displayed is on the cover of the tri-fold brochure for the Ivy Style show. If you place your cursor over the brochure in the cover area, the image becomes magnified and you can see the source of the image:

"Illustration from _Apparel Arts_, Advance Fall 1935, v.5, No. IVA, pg 73."

Perhaps finding that source in the FIT library might provide additional information about the provenance of the image, the name of the illustrator, etc. This may be easier for you since you live in New York City.

Apparently, the brochure can be bought for $50 -- not sure if it is worth that much to you.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60639
> 
> This is one of my favorite clothing illustration of them all. I'd love to find a better copy and also any detail about its history, but so far, this is the best copy I could find and I haven't been able to find out anything about its history.
> 
> In 2012, when the Fashion Institute of Technology did a show on Ivy Style, it used this illustrations - weirdly altered as shown below - for its brochure.
> View attachment 60640


An illustration with a bit of history about it. Now that does amp up the interest factor. Drpeter's post #3552, below, adds to the mistique and we are left wondering who would actually pay $50 for a six panel, paper stock brochure? As to the composition of the image itself, it would appear we are looking at a pick-up football contest on some unspecified Ivy campus, bit in point of fact, only the man in the brown Tweed sport coat and khaki hued wool gabs looks young enough to be a college student. But then, perhaps this is after the war and veterans are on campus attempting to recover the rest of their lives.

It is fun to look at the second version of the illustration, the one festooned with the Ivy Style banner, and consider that the entire group whose feet are shown in the drawing, all seem to be floating in mid air. My friend, you are right...this is a fascinating illustration!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> An illustration with a bit of history about it. Now that does amp up the interest factor. Drpeter's post #3552, below, adds to the mistique and we are left wondering who would actually pay $50 for a six panel, paper stock brochure? As to the composition of the image itself, it would appear we are looking at a pick-up football contest on some unspecified Ivy campus, bit in point of fact, only the man in the brown Tweed sport coat and khaki hued wool gabs looks young enough to be a college student. But then, perhaps this ids after the war and veterans are on campus attempting to recover the rest of their lives.
> 
> It is fun to look at the second version of the illustration, the one festooned with the Ivy Style banner, and consider that the entire group whose feet are shown in the drawing, all seem to be floating in mid air. My friend, you are right...this is a fascinating illustration!


The fact that someone would put out there the asking price of $50, not to mention the possibility that someone might actually pay it, is one of the reasons that so many people hang onto so many things. They think they are valuable. My mother in law was such a person. I suspect that in her mind the accumulation of 95 years' detritus somehow would be a treasure trove for her heirs. The reality was that they were merely the reason we spent a miserable week bagging and disposing of things after she died.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Faders, I am not sure if you found this out already, but take a peek at this webpage:
> 
> https://thecarycollection.com/products/ivy-style-1
> The second illustration you displayed is on the cover of the tri-fold brochure for the Ivy Style show. If you place your cursor over the brochure in the cover area, the image becomes magnified and you can see the source of the image:
> 
> "Illustration from _Apparel Arts_, Advance Fall 1935, v.5, No. IVA, pg 73."
> 
> Perhaps finding that source in the FIT library might provide additional information about the provenance of the image, the name of the illustrator, etc. This may be easier for you since you live in New York City.
> 
> Apparently, the brochure can be bought for $50 -- not sure if it is worth that much to you.


Thank you - very good sleuthing. I have the brochure from when I went to the show (tucked away somewhere). I wasn't that interested in owing a physical copy as finding a better on-line digital copy. I just don't care that much about "stuff" anymore, but thought there is probably a better digital copy out there than the one I had.



Vecchio Vespa said:


> The fact that someone would put out there the asking price of $50, not to mention the possibility that someone might actually pay it, is one of the reasons that so many people hang onto so many things. They think they are valuable. My mother in law was such a person. I suspect that in her mind the accumulation of 95 years' detritus somehow would be a treasure trove for her heirs. The reality was that they were merely the reason we spent a miserable week bagging and disposing of things after she died.


I am not a "stuff" guy. Other than books, which my girlfriend and I buy to read not to collect, I don't have a lot of things and don't want them as I don't find much fun in having "stuff." Like you, I've had to clear out a few relatives' houses after they passed and it's been an unenjoyable job. After the 2% of things that the kids want are taken, the other 98% is a job just to get rid off. Each time, I ended up having to pay someone or some company just to take the bulk of it away.



eagle2250 said:


> An illustration with a bit of history about it. Now that does amp up the interest factor. Drpeter's post #3552, below, adds to the mistique and we are left wondering who would actually pay $50 for a six panel, paper stock brochure? As to the composition of the image itself, it would appear we are looking at a pick-up football contest on some unspecified Ivy campus, bit in point of fact, only the man in the brown Tweed sport coat and khaki hued wool gabs looks young enough to be a college student. But then, perhaps this is after the war and veterans are on campus attempting to recover the rest of their lives.
> 
> It is fun to look at the second version of the illustration, the one festooned with the Ivy Style banner, and consider that the entire group whose feet are shown in the drawing, all seem to be floating in mid air. My friend, you are right...this is a fascinating illustration!


I've always wondered why the Fashion Institute thought the guys look better, as you so well said it, floating than in the original. Sometimes I think people have to do things just to justify their jobs.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> But then, perhaps this is after the war and veterans are on campus attempting to recover the rest of their lives.


Since the Apparel Arts magazine is dated 1935, this prospect seems unlikely if it was taken whole from the magazine -- unless FIT modified the image somehow. I agree that the students look somewhat older.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you - very good sleuthing. I have the brochure from when I went to the show (tucked away somewhere). I wasn't that interested in owing a physical copy as finding a better on-line digital copy. I just don't care that much about "stuff" anymore, but thought there is probably a better digital copy out there than the one I had.
> 
> I am not a "stuff" guy. Other than books, which my girlfriend and I buy to read not to collect, I don't have a lot of things and don't want them as I don't find much fun in having "stuff." Like you, I've had to clear out a few relatives' houses after they passed and it's been an unenjoyable job. After the 2% of things that the kids want are taken, the other 98% is a job just to get rid off. Each time, I ended up having to pay someone or some company just to take the bulk of it away.
> 
> I've always wondered why the Fashion Institute thought the guys look better, as you so well said it, floating than in the original. Sometimes I think people have to do things just to justify their jobs.


At least around here Habitat for Humanity will send out a truck and take an extremely wide variety of items.


----------



## Fading Fast

Vecchio Vespa said:


> At least around here Habitat for Humanity will send out a truck and take an extremely wide variety of items.


It's much harder in NYC as space is always at a premium, so even the Goodwill type stores have to be selective. After the kids take, we give as much to Goodwill as it will take and, then, pay the junk guys who say they give a lot away to charity (but who knows).


----------



## GRH

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 60413


And then the killing began.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> It's much harder in NYC as space is always at a premium, so even the Goodwill type stores have to be selective. After the kids take, we give as much to Goodwill as it will take and, then, pay the junk guys who say they give a lot away to charity (but who knows).


.....and this is why the wife and I are culling our respective hoards before our time in this world expires.. we don't want the kids and grand kids to have to go throught the exercises you describe! It will be interesting to see who wins this race. LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60639
> 
> This is one of my favorite clothing illustration of them all. I'd love to find a better copy and also any detail about its history, but so far, this is the best copy I could find and I haven't been able to find out anything about its history.
> 
> In 2012, when the Fashion Institute of Technology did a show on Ivy Style, it used this illustrations - weirdly altered as shown below - for its brochure.
> View attachment 60640





drpeter said:


> Faders, I am not sure if you found this out already, but take a peek at this webpage:
> 
> https://thecarycollection.com/products/ivy-style-1
> The second illustration you displayed is on the cover of the tri-fold brochure for the Ivy Style show. If you place your cursor over the brochure in the cover area, the image becomes magnified and you can see the source of the image:
> 
> "Illustration from _Apparel Arts_, Advance Fall 1935, v.5, No. IVA, pg 73."
> 
> Perhaps finding that source in the FIT library might provide additional information about the provenance of the image, the name of the illustrator, etc. This may be easier for you since you live in New York City.
> 
> Apparently, the brochure can be bought for $50 -- not sure if it is worth that much to you.





eagle2250 said:


> An illustration with a bit of history about it. Now that does amp up the interest factor. Drpeter's post #3552, below, adds to the mistique and we are left wondering who would actually pay $50 for a six panel, paper stock brochure? As to the composition of the image itself, it would appear we are looking at a pick-up football contest on some unspecified Ivy campus, bit in point of fact, only the man in the brown Tweed sport coat and khaki hued wool gabs looks young enough to be a college student. But then, perhaps this is after the war and veterans are on campus attempting to recover the rest of their lives.
> 
> It is fun to look at the second version of the illustration, the one festooned with the Ivy Style banner, and consider that the entire group whose feet are shown in the drawing, all seem to be floating in mid air. My friend, you are right...this is a fascinating illustration!


Thank you for posting this! :icon_hailthee:

I too find this to be one of the best and most beautiful among the AA/Esky illustrations.

As has been noted the illustration when used to advertise the Ivy Style event was worked over and modernized somewhat in its appearance, as well as giving the figures the angelic power of flight. An improvement? Not to my eye.

The illustrator was George B. Shepherd one of many AA/Esky illustrators, all of whom were contractors, excepting Robert Goodman late in his career with them.

I too love the luminous, serene, slightly other worldly character of Shepard's illustrations.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Thank you for posting this! :icon_hailthee:
> 
> I too find this to be one of the best and most beautiful among the AA/Esky illustrations.
> 
> As has been noted the illustration when used to advertise the Ivy Style event was worked over and modernized somewhat in its appearance, as well as giving the figures the angelic power of flight. An improvement? Not to my eye.
> 
> The illustrator was George B. Shepherd one of many AA/Esky illustrators, all of whom were contractors, excepting Robert Goodman late in his career with them.
> 
> I too love the luminous, serene, slightly other worldly character of Shepard's illustrations.
> 
> View attachment 60667


Flanderian, hi, are you aware of a better digital copy out there of the "college boys" than the one I posted? Thank you, FF.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Flanderian, hi, are you aware of a better digital copy out there of the "college boys" than the one I posted? Thank you, FF.


No, sorry, I do not. The only versions I've seen appear identical in quality to the top illustration you posted.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> No, sorry, I do not. The only versions I've seen appear identical in quality to the top illustration you posted.


That's been my experience, but thank you for looking.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> That's been my experience, but thank you for looking.


Quite welcome, sir! 👍


----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian said:


> Thank you for posting this! :icon_hailthee:
> 
> I too find this to be one of the best and most beautiful among the AA/Esky illustrations.
> 
> As has been noted the illustration when used to advertise the Ivy Style event was worked over and modernized somewhat in its appearance, as well as giving the figures the angelic power of flight. An improvement? Not to my eye.
> 
> The illustrator was George B. Shepherd one of many AA/Esky illustrators, all of whom were contractors, excepting Robert Goodman late in his career with them.
> 
> I too love the luminous, serene, slightly other worldly character of Shepard's illustrations.
> 
> View attachment 60667


I'm the old guy in the boater squeezing her bottom.


----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> I'm the old guy in the boater squeezing her bottom.


Ahh . . . . memories, huh?


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> It will be interesting to see who wins this race. LOL.


I have already lost the race. But I have no direct descendants, and the state can dispose of what I don't, or send the entire bloody lot for recycling.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60688


Today those gold toned pipe barriers would be black canvas tapes that extend out of and retract back into the vertical stanchions. Progress? Perhaps, but I wish we had kept the gate agents in uniform!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60688


Great illustration of handsome clothing!



eagle2250 said:


> Today those gold toned pipe barriers would be black canvas tapes that extend out of and retract back into the vertical stanchions. Progress? Perhaps, but I wish we had kept the gate agents in uniform!


Reminds me of a chain of restaurants named The Brass Rail that used such a rail in front of their establishment to add tone to the enterprise. But the pictured chain was covered with port wine colored velvet. I may have only encounter them/it in Manhattan, and my personal familiarity with them must go back about 60 years.


----------



## Flanderian

Another G. B. Shepherd.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Another G. B. Shepherd.
> 
> View attachment 60694


The artist seems particularly adept with his facial expressions. It's too bad he drew the Doorman with his white gloved hand raised in greeting. I would love to see the look on the gentleman's face as the pert, young lass approaches.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> The artist seems particularly adept with his facial expressions. It's too bad he drew the Doorman with his white gloved hand raised in greeting. I would love to see the look on the gentleman's face as the pert, young lass approaches.


Eyes straight ahead, shoulders back! 🪖


----------



## Flanderian

How about some footwear? Also George B. Shepherd.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

I looked up the Anthony Squires brand and discovered a whole new world! Apparently it was one of several brands that were very popular in Australia, and were part of the clothing businesses started by Jewish immigrants who came to Australia after WWII, many of them Holocaust survivors. There is an exhibition about this at the Sydney Jewish Museum (they call it the _schmatte_ trade, what is known as the "rags" trade in New York).

https://sydneyjewishmuseum.com.au/exhibition/dressing-sydney-jewish-fashion-story/


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> How about some footwear? Also George B. Shepherd.
> 
> View attachment 60711


I may have a problem, but I can see myself buying and wearing all of the low quarter shoes included in that illustration. That's a pretty persuasive sales illustration. The riding boots are quite handsome as well, but not being a rider, I would rather avoid the extended shaft sweating my lower leg all day long! LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> I may have a problem, but I can see myself buying and wearing all of the low quarter shoes included in that illustration. That's a pretty persuasive sales illustration. The riding boots are quite handsome as well, but not being a rider, I would rather avoid the extended shaft sweating my lower leg all day long! LOL.


As an illustration I certainly admire it, but for me times have changed. It is a commentary on many things, including retirement, changing styles, global warming, and discomfort with many of the trappings of bygone eras that not a single pair of shoes or boots or any of the hats would tempt me.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60722


Nice!


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> I may have a problem, but I can see myself buying and wearing all of the low quarter shoes included in that illustration. That's a pretty persuasive sales illustration. The riding boots are quite handsome as well, but not being a rider, I would rather avoid the extended shaft sweating my lower leg all day long! LOL.


But what about the USAFAC? 

(United States Air Force Air Cavalry.)


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts, I think '34, also by George B. Shepherd.


----------



## Flanderian

This illustration is unsigned and unattributed. May be G. S. Shepherd, and certainly is similar to some of his signed work. Illustrators at the time would often work in multiple styles, and would also often imitate each other.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60764


He needs to keep his face clean so that he may want to kiss her afterwards.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60764






Howard said:


> He needs to keep his face clean so that he may want to kiss her afterwards.


👍 👍 👍


----------



## Flanderian

G. B. Shepherd does advertising -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ ooooh!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60764


I have taken a young lady to the county fair and have indeed bought her a cone of cotton candy on several occasions during my younger years, but frankly I can't remember ever wearing a suit and tie, while doing so! Just saying......


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> I have taken a young lady to the county fair and have indeed bought her a cone of cotton candy on several occasions during my younger years, but frankly I can't remember ever wearing a suit and tie, while doing so! Just saying......


It must be a special occasion for them.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since we've been discussing neckwear over in the Dressing Well in the Heat thread:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Since we've been discussing neckwear over in the Dressing Well in the Heat thread:
> View attachment 60811


A couple with attitude. We can only imagine she is saying....
"that is one hell of an ascot dear, but...get your damned claws out of your pocket! Act like you have some manners." LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Since we've been discussing neckwear over in the Dressing Well in the Heat thread:
> View attachment 60811


Great illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

G.B.S, has a tipple.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ really cool. The variety in general and the bold patterns are impressive


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ really cool. The variety in general and the bold patterns are impressive


Yes. Given plenty of time and sufficient encouragement - $$$$ 😁, old George knew how to handle a paint brush.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60838


Reminds me of my Uncle Bill! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

The last of George B Shepherd that I have. The first two are unquestionable Shepherd's, the last two unattributed, but appear as if they may be by his hand.


----------



## Flanderian

Late '40's, early '50's.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60895


Wow! Very cool! 

Looks remarkably like my first office job in '66. Open bay office, we all wore ties and jackets. Usually suits,, though the occasional blazer or discreet sports jacket also made appearances.

I can smell the Brylcreem!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wow! Very cool!
> 
> Looks remarkably like my first office job in '66. Open bay office, we all wore ties and jackets. Usually suits,, though the occasional blazer or discreet sports jacket also made appearances.


When I started in the "back office" on Wall St. in the '80s, men still dressed very much like this, but they had longer '80s-style hair. The trading and sales area were where the BB suits, etc., where worn, but in the "back office," the attire was more like this.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> When I started in the "back office" on Wall St. in the '80s, men still dressed very much like this, but they had longer '80s-style hair. The trading and sales area were where the BB suits, etc., where worn, but in the "back office," the attire was more like this.


Just realized too that in keeping with that period the staff is all male and rather pale. 

The prevailing public attitude was that women didn't need a serious job as they would all eventually wish to marry and become homemakers. It wasn't until well into the early '70's that women began to populate such offices along with male colleagues.


----------



## Flanderian

A late '30's, early '40's tipple.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> A late '30's, early '40's tipple.
> 
> View attachment 60915


I rather like the dual vents on the grey suit. I'm scratching my head over the satin stripe on the leg of the suit on the right, as we look at the picture. Is that a uniform?


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> I rather like the dual vents on the grey suit. I'm scratching my head over the satin stripe on the leg of the suit on the right, as we look at the picture. Is that a uniform?


Sharp eyes! Hadn't noticed it, and his jacket looks suspiciously like a mess jacket. Would almost be tempted to suggest he might be a waiter, but he seems to be enjoying a beverage along with the other two gents. A dress uniform from WWII?

The Army, Navy and Air Force each have a navy blue dress mess jacket in their regs. Though of course at the time the Air Force was still part of the Army. Depending upon service and rank, such jackets are now adorned with various braids and insignia of rank. But perhaps at the time they were simpler.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## GRH

eagle2250 said:


> I rather like the dual vents on the grey suit. I'm scratching my head over the satin stripe on the leg of the suit on the right, as we look at the picture. Is that a uniform?


(Stripe on trouser seam) + (cropped jacket) = White tie [tails outside the frame].


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> A late '30's, early '40's tipple.
> 
> View attachment 60915


LOL, in contrast to what Flanderian said earlier, this group, while male, is definitely not pale -- they are bronze.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Just realized too that in keeping with that period the staff is all male and rather pale.
> 
> The prevailing public attitude was that women didn't need a serious job as they would all eventually wish to marry and become homemakers. It wasn't until well into the early '70's that women began to populate such offices along with male colleagues.


In addition to the lack of women, such offices, at least in the sixties and early seventies, were also mostly white. Over time, more men, and eventually women, of colour started to make their appearance in such offices, and the businesses that those offices represented.

There are two aspects to all this: First, the lifting of immigration restrictions for non-European peoples that accompanied the passing of the Hart-Celler Act of 1965 (itself a broadening of the McCarran-Walter Act of 1952) contributed to wider immigration into the United States from countries in Asia, Africa and other parts of the world. The main beneficiaries of this Act were professional people -- scientists, physicians, engineers, etc -- who found employment in the usual settings such as universities, hospitals, etc. As time passed, their children and other relatives came in and found jobs in a much wider range of positions.

Second, the trend toward globalization also led to greater numbers of entrepreneurs from various parts of the world, some of them quite wealthy, coming to our shores, and starting businesses that benefited and enriched the US in many ways, not just financially. As one example, consider food: When I first arrived in the US in the mid-seventies, Americans were far less adventurous in their eating habits and food preferences compared to what they are like now. We can find dishes from every corner of the globe incorporated into our cuisines, and often exotic food and restaurants even in small cities.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60943


Paraphrasing the late artist Thomas Kincaid, "The Perfect End To A Day of Hard Labor!"


----------



## Flanderian

GRH said:


> (Stripe on trouser seam) + (cropped jacket) = White tie [tails outside the frame].


👍

Sharp eyes! Studying the illustration from that perspective, the figure appears perched upon the bar stool and the tail can be seen descending from the back of the jacket.


----------



## Flanderian

Late '40s - early '50's.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60979


.....and she says, "What'cha going to do with that second tie, Big Boy? You going to tie me up and then, and then....." A perfect caption for the illustration would be "Wishful Thinking."


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> .....and she says, "What'cha going to do with that second tie, Big Boy? You going to tie me up and then, and then....." A perfect caption for the illustration would be "Wishful Thinking."


And my mind thought, "I remember a time when, like this guy, you'd keep an extra tie and shirt in your desk at work." I like where your mind went better.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> .....and she says, "What'cha going to do with that second tie, Big Boy? You going to tie me up and then, and then....." A perfect caption for the illustration would be "Wishful Thinking."


In my office it was more likely he made a wise*** remark to which she responded, "Why don't you make a noose out of that and hang yourself! "



Fading Fast said:


> And my mind thought, "I remember a time when, like this guy, you'd keep an extra tie and shirt in your desk at work." I like where your mind went better.


Never a shirt, but a couple extra ties For the inevitable glob of lunch when entertaining a client. And also a packable Brooks ultralight weight raincoat for unexpected downpours on my return 3/4 mi. stroll to the train.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 60988


Love all the interesting styles and patterns. One of the few positive develops in dress over the past decade plus has been the younger generation embracing cardigans. The ones I see them wear are mainly one color, simple in design (although the shawl collar has made a comeback too) and pretty fitted, but still, at least they are wearing them.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Love all the interesting styles and patterns. One of the few positive develops in dress over the past decade plus has been the younger generation embracing cardigans. The ones I see them wear are mainly one color, simple in design (although the shawl collar has made a comeback too) and pretty fitted, but still, at least they are wearing them.


The solid colored woolens offer the most options for pairing. But I'd like to see more cable knit and shaker knit versions as that embellishment adds a lot of surface interest to the piece while maintaining its solid color versatility.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61008


Great drawing!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Wonderful


----------



## drpeter

I know one of the earlier silhouettes for jackets is the relatively broader shoulder and the narrower waist which is followed by a straight drop in the quarters of the jacket. This is especially seen, almost exaggerated, in DB jackets: The wider peaked lapels and the top buttons that are spread apart both accentuate the effect.

I much prefer the alternate silhouette: Natural shoulders, with a soft line and a regular waist, as in the sack jacket, followed by slightly flared quarters that do not hug the hips but move a bit outward, unlike the sack jacket. I think this slight flare balances the shoulders, which tend to be wider than the hips for most men.

Just my personal take!


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 61011


Looking at all those well dressed gentlemen on the tennis court and reflecting back on my rigs worn when playing tennis, I fear I might have dressed a bit like a tennis bum. Of course when I add in other sports I participated in over a lifetime (football, wrestling, track and field, perhaps a total of 6 rounds of golf, etc) the picture only gets worse. I guess I've got a lot of work to do to amp up my sporting wardrobes!...but then I'm just too tired to do that! LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I know one of the earlier silhouettes for jackets is the relatively broader shoulder and the narrower waist which is followed by a straight drop in the quarters of the jacket. This is especially seen, almost exaggerated, in DB jackets: The wider peaked lapels and the top buttons that are spread apart both accentuate the effect.
> 
> I much prefer the alternate silhouette: Natural shoulders, with a soft line and a regular waist, as in the sack jacket, followed by slightly flared quarters that do not hug the hips but move a bit outward, unlike the sack jacket. I think this slight flare balances the shoulders, which tend to be wider than the hips for most men.
> 
> Just my personal take!


I agree with virtually word you typed in the post above, but must add that back in the day, they wore their lapels and shoulders like that. LOL.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I agree with virtually word you typed in the post above, but must add that back in the day, they wore their lapels and shoulders like that. LOL.


I suppose styles and fashions change, but being eclectic in my tastes, I like the idea of selecting the features that I like in a shirt or trousers or jacket, and looking for that combination of features when I buy an article of clothing. Many of us on this forum and elsewhere do that, others stick to one style of clothing, like Trad.

There's an interesting piece in _Permanent Style_ posted in the last couple of days by Simon Crompton. He considers that old sartorial chestnut: Must we dress for others, or must we dress for ourselves? He recommends the middle path (maybe he is a good Buddhist, LOL), where other people and context must be taken into account, but one's personal preferences must be indulged as well -- both to a degree. For reference, it is here:

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/07/should-you-dress-for-yourself-or-for-others.html


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Wonderful
> 
> View attachment 61068


Very nice! 👍 Looks early '50's.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Very nice! 👍 Looks early '50's.


Agreed, looks post-war '40s or early '50s to me.



drpeter said:


> ,,,He recommends the middle path (maybe he is a good Buddhist, LOL), where other people and context must be taken into account, but one's personal preferences must be indulged as well -- both to a degree. For reference, it is here:
> 
> https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/07/should-you-dress-for-yourself-or-for-others.html


When time allows, I want to read the article, but from your summary, I'd say it's pretty close to how I approach dressing (or try to anyway).


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61105


Back in the days when you can read a newspaper on the train but now you have smartphones.


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> Back in the days when you can read a newspaper on the train but now you have smartphones.


IMO, the artist in the illustration with the newspaper readers got one thing wrong. Many on the subway fold the paper in half (with the seam) to make it take up less space when reading. The illustration doesn't feel accurate (see below - different examples of folds).


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61105


A great illustration! It reminds me of the days I spent riding the South Shore & South Bend commuter rail from Chesterton, IN to the East 9th Street station in Chicago and back each day. I had read my two papers, slugging down a pot of coffee at home before departing for the train station, so I spent my tine mumbling into a dictaphone recorder and drafting much of my correspondence for the day. Good times? Naw! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61105





eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration! It reminds me of the days I spent riding the South Shore & South Bend commuter rail from Chesterton, IN to the East 9th Street station in Chicago and back each day. I had read my two papers, slugging down a pot of coffee at home before departing for the train station, so I spent my tine mumbling into a dictaphone recorder and drafting much of my correspondence for the day. Good times? Naw! LOL.


You never know!


----------



## ran23

As a child in San Francisco, family friends taught me how to fold a newspaper. 67 now.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration! It reminds me of the days I spent riding the South Shore & South Bend commuter rail from Chesterton, IN to the East 9th Street station in Chicago and back each day. I had read my two papers, slugging down a pot of coffee at home before departing for the train station, so I spent my tine mumbling into a dictaphone recorder and drafting much of my correspondence for the day. Good times? Naw! LOL.


What did you do for a living?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

All of these drawings and memories of commuting on trains reminds me of playing bridge in the back of the bus, laying the dummy hand on an attache case. Great memories.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

And a bonus distaff illustration just cause it's a good one.


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> What did you do for a living?


I was a RegionalDirector for The GSA's Federal Protective Service. We provided facility security and law enforcement services for Federal facilities dispersed throughout a six state area of operations. Interesting work, but long hours and way too much travel. LOL.


----------



## Howard

So she wants me to nuke her in the freezer?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61158
> 
> 
> And a bonus distaff illustration just cause it's a good one.
> View attachment 61159


Good Lawd, it was a freaking blinding flash of the obvious. Looking at the illustration it struck me as to why I've a;ways found the classic shape of Coca-Cola bottles so pleasing to look at!  LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61158
> 
> 
> And a bonus distaff illustration just cause it's a good one.
> View attachment 61159


Super cool!


----------



## Flanderian

Young Henry -


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> I was a RegionalDirector for The GSA's Federal Protective Service. We provided facility security and law enforcement services for Federal facilities dispersed throughout a six state area of operations. Interesting work, but long hours and way too much travel. LOL.


Laudable work! 👍

I had no inkling such even existed! Thought the GSA was mainly a numbers organization. Guess I just assumed it was handled by the FBI or each agency arranged for its own security. :icon_jokercolor:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Laudable work! 👍
> 
> I had no inkling such even existed! Thought the GSA was mainly a numbers organization. Guess I just assumed it was handled by the FBI or each agency arranged for its own security. :icon_jokercolor:


Actually The General Services Administration was composed of three services; The Property Management Service, The Federal Supply Service and The Property Disposal Service. The Property Management Service either owned or leased the properties housing most other activities of the Federal Government. The Property Management Service included five Divisions, one of which was The Federal Protective Service. I had a staff of uniformed police officers, Physical Security Specialists with law enforcement authority, who assessed the facility security and law enforcement needs of each property, and Systems Security Specialists who designed the security systems installed in our Federally owned or leased spaces. We also had contracting authority to award statewide and multi-state contracts for uniformed armed guard services in our buildings. In my region we supported approximately 1100 locations dispersed throughout six states, to include Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, and Wisconsin.

Now, back to our originally scheduled discussion.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Actually The General Services Administration was composed of three services; The Property Management Service, The Federal Supply Service and The Property Disposal Service. The Property Management Service either owned or leased the properties housing most other activities of the Federal Government. The Property Management Service included five Divisions, one of which was The Federal Protective Service. I had a staff of uniformed police officers, Physical Security Specialists with law enforcement authority, who assessed the facility security and law enforcement needs of each property, and Systems Security Specialists who designed the security systems installed in our Federally owned or leased spaces. We also had contracting authority to award statewide and multi-state contracts for uniformed armed guard services in our buildings. In my region we supported approximately 1100 locations dispersed throughout six states, to include Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, and Wisconsin.
> 
> Now, back to our originally scheduled discussion.


Boy, that's a lot of work! 😅

From my own very limited experience with security via military service, that's an impressive organizational structure. Think we need to re-induct you and send you up to DC to straighten things out for when scallywags get rambunctious!

Back to work! :devil:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## A.L.Z.

@Fading Fast @Flanderian @eagle2250

What are your thoughts of men wearing fur coats, in the context of trad clothing as recorded in classic movies and classic ads and posters? I mean the classic mink coats and the like. Other the college raccoon coat (slightly oversized, rolled up sleeve cuffs, big collar, very full-length)....is fur the exclusive province of women in classic trad clothing?

As you have encyclopedic knowledge of vintage posters and ads, have you seen any fur on men?


----------



## Fading Fast

A.L.Z. said:


> @Fading Fast @Flanderian @eagle2250
> 
> What are your thoughts of men wearing fur coats, in the context of trad clothing as recorded in classic movies and classic ads and posters? I mean the classic mink coats and the like. Other the college raccoon coat (slightly oversized, rolled up sleeve cuffs, big collar, very full-length)....is fur the exclusive province of women in classic trad clothing?
> 
> As you have encyclopedic knowledge of vintage posters and ads, have you seen any fur on men?


The raccoon coat, as you note, was very popular for younger men (college age/twenties) in the 1920s into the 1930s (and you'd see a few as late as the 1950s).

I've also seen some men's top coats (usually high end) with fur collars in ads and movies from the 1920s - 1960s, but that's about it for men and fur.

To be sure, a fur coat could pop up as an outre' style on a man in a movie, but in that case, it was there for its eccentricity.

While I appreciate your compliment, I'm just a guy who looks at a lot of old pictures and movies, so maybe there's more to the men-and-fur story than I've seen.


----------



## Fading Fast

Today's illustrations are especially for @A.L.Z.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> Today's illustrations are especially for @A.L.Z.
> 
> View attachment 61265
> View attachment 61266
> View attachment 61267


I always thought that fur coats to me looked effeminate but I'll wear one on the street just as long as I don't get made fun of.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> I always thought that fur coats to me looked effeminate but I'll wear one on the street just as long as I don't get made fun of.


If you wear any fur coat on any urban street you need to brace yourself and be on the alert for some activist to confront you. If they happen to have a can of red paint, they may splash you with it. Fortunately, most animal rights activists do not patrol the streets with their paint cans at the ready.


----------



## Howard

Vecchio Vespa said:


> If you wear any fur coat on any urban street you need to brace yourself and be on the alert for some activist to confront you. If they happen to have a can if red paint, they may splash you with it. Fortunately, most animal rights activists do not patrol the streets with their paint cans at the ready.











Like Jerry Seinfeld wearing a fur coat?


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 61249


Taking the family to an airshow...a great way so spend a summer Saturday!


----------



## eagle2250

A.L.Z. said:


> @Fading Fast @Flanderian @eagle2250
> 
> What are your thoughts of men wearing fur coats, in the context of trad clothing as recorded in classic movies and classic ads and posters? I mean the classic mink coats and the like. Other the college raccoon coat (slightly oversized, rolled up sleeve cuffs, big collar, very full-length)....is fur the exclusive province of women in classic trad clothing?
> 
> As you have encyclopedic knowledge of vintage posters and ads, have you seen any fur on men?


Many years ago in a land far, far away (AKA: Central Pennsylvania) I worked as an apprentice for a Furrier. I didn't make the garments, but he did and I'm here to tell you, I fail to understand the attraction to furs. In fact, I think their moment in time has passed. The market has faded greatly. The garments are inconveniently bulky, many offer an unpleasant hand to the touch, they are a challenge to maintain and also to store during the off season. If you want a natural hide coat, go for a smooth finished or veen a sueded leather and save yourself a lot of headaches.

Good luck in your hunt, my friend!


----------



## Oldsarge

Fur parkas make perfect sense in the Far North but in our current urbanized world, I go along with Eagle.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> Fur parkas make perfect sense in the Far North but in our current urbanized world, I go along with Eagle.


How much does a fur coat for men cost? Might be quite expensive I'm guessing, Sarge?


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> How much does a fur coat for men cost? Might be quite expensive I'm guessing, Sarge?


Today's cost could easily range from $2500+ to well over $10,000., but you will get noticed! LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

You can get rabbit fur coats for as little as $400 but they wear out quickly. Longer lasting fur will set you back just about what Eagle said.


----------



## Oldsarge

This is a spill-this-on-your-clothing ad from the '20's through the '60's.


----------



## Flanderian

From the hand of the master -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ You know his coat could stop a small-caliber bullet.


----------



## drpeter

He's either a stand-in for Dashiell Hammett or the Continental Op -- same thing, you might say. And just in case, he has a large flat gunmetal cigarette case in his breast pocket that will definitely stop a slug.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> Fur parkas make perfect sense in the Far North but in our current urbanized world, I go along with Eagle.


Back in the day, while serving at Northern tier Bases, the USAF issued us arctic parkas, fitted with what they said was wolf's fur trim around the hood of the parkas. The rest of the coats exterior was I think nylon material. We paired those coats with matching arctic pants and white Bunny Boots and stayed pretty cozy....for a short while and then we got cold and warmed ourselves by shivering! LOL.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Today's cost could easily range from $2500+ to well over $10,000., but you will get noticed! LOL.


You know I'll just stick to my peacoats instead.


----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 61317
> 
> 
> This is a spill-this-on-your-clothing ad from the '20's through the '60's.


Why did they advertise this?


----------



## LC7

First post here, though I've lurked for a while. I was looking up Calvin Coolidge today and found some pics that might belong in this thread, which I was perusing earlier today. The first looks to be a painted portrait. The second, while a photo, shows a pretty trad outfit.


----------



## Tweedlover

Oldsarge said:


> Fur parkas make perfect sense in the Far North but in our current urbanized world, I go along with Eagle.


Sadly the coat was sold from my mother's estate when she died, but we used to have the buffalo hide coat owned by my great grandfather who homesteaded in the 1880's from Canada. I wore it once to a visit with my then 90ish year-old great aunt back in the 1970's. She said she'd never seen one, only buffalo hide lap blankets. Quite heavy and the seams were sewn with sinew.


----------



## A.L.Z.

eagle2250 said:


> Many years ago in a land far, far away (AKA: Central Pennsylvania) I worked as an apprentice for a Furrier. I didn't make the garments, but he did and I'm here to tell you, I fail to understand the attraction to furs. In fact, I think their moment in time has passed. The market has faded greatly. The garments are inconveniently bulky, many offer an unpleasant hand to the touch, they are a challenge to maintain and also to store during the off season. If you want a natural hide coat, go for a smooth finished or veen a sueded leather and save yourself a lot of headaches.
> 
> Good luck in your hunt, my friend!


This is one of the few men's fur coats, which I think, under the "right" circumstances, looks really nice. It's large but not bulky...it's tasteful....it looks extremely cosy and warm, very rich looking...(P.S. does anyone kno where this image originally is from, or from when?)










But as you say, the time for this kind of clothing may be over.

There was a recent article in the NYT about media and culture, and how it is changing. There were once "mainstream" media outlets that directed and maintained a national culture. This is no more. there are now many subcultures within a single nation, and each evolves on its own.

I live in Canada, but lived for a while in Boston in the 2000s decade. Many women wore mink coats, it looked good on them....I went out of my way often to compliment wearers who I thought looked pretty nice.

As for the men, they were all African -American, or gay. But they were members of these communities that stood out first and foremost as people who defined their identities primarily as members of their communities, if you get what I am trying to say.

I wouldn't consider Condoleezza Rice or barack Obama as African-Americans...for me, they are Americans first, and black second. I cannot imagine either in a mink coat.
I wouldn't consider Pete Boutigieg as a gay man....I consider him first an American, then a Democrat, then a South-Bender, then a married gay man....I cannot imagine him or his husband in a mink coat.

I consider a classic polo overcoat as one of the most iconic items of AMerican trad mens clothing. I can totally imagine Obama or Buttiggieg in one...in fact, pretty sure Obama often roams around in one.


----------



## Fading Fast

LC7 said:


> First post here, though I've lurked for a while. I was looking up Calvin Coolidge today and found some pics that might belong in this thread, which I was perusing earlier today. The first looks to be a painted portrait. The second, while a photo, shows a pretty trad outfit.
> 
> View attachment 61346
> View attachment 61347


Welcome to AAAC, glad you are posting.

In the first one, I love his dress boots.

In the second pic, I wouldn't be surprised if he's wearing white flannels based on the era.

Good pics.


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## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ You know his coat could stop a small-caliber bullet.
> 
> View attachment 61326


Exceptional Art Deco inspired illustration! 👍



LC7 said:


> First post here, though I've lurked for a while. I was looking up Calvin Coolidge today and found some pics that might belong in this thread, which I was perusing earlier today. The first looks to be a painted portrait. The second, while a photo, shows a pretty trad outfit.
> 
> View attachment 61346
> View attachment 61347


Silent Cal. Looks as if someone has forced him to wear barb wire underwear and stolen his dog! 



A.L.Z. said:


> This is one of the few men's fur coats, which I think, under the "right" circumstances, looks really nice. It's large but not bulky...it's tasteful....it looks extremely cosy and warm, very rich looking...(P.S. does anyone kno where this image originally is from, or from when?)
> 
> View attachment 61357
> 
> 
> But as you say, the time for this kind of clothing may be over.
> 
> There was a recent article in the NYT about media and culture, and how it is changing. There were once "mainstream" media outlets that directed and maintained a national culture. This is no more. there are now many subcultures within a single nation, and each evolves on its own.
> 
> I live in Canada, but lived for a while in Boston in the 2000s decade. Many women wore mink coats, it looked good on them....I went out of my way often to compliment wearers who I thought looked pretty nice.
> 
> As for the men, they were all African -American, or gay. But they were members of these communities that stood out first and foremost as people who defined their identities primarily as members of their communities, if you get what I am trying to say.
> 
> I wouldn't consider Condoleezza Rice or barack Obama as African-Americans...for me, they are Americans first, and black second. I cannot imagine either in a mink coat.
> I wouldn't consider Pete Boutigieg as a gay man....I consider him first an American, then a Democrat, then a South-Bender, then a married gay man....I cannot imagine him or his husband in a mink coat





A.L.Z. said:


> I consider a classic polo overcoat as one of the most iconic items of AMerican trad mens clothing. I can totally imagine Obama or Buttiggieg in one...in fact, pretty sure Obama often roams around in one.


Very thoughtful and interesting! Thanks for offering it.



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61359


Quite continental. :beers:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Just love the classic BB suit.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Just love the classic BB suit.
> 
> View attachment 61381


That is a great looking suit, but personally I'm still looking for the airline that offers all that legroom and room to move around in. It just doesn't exist...never has and never will!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Just love the classic BB suit.
> 
> View attachment 61381


Great illustration! 👍

Lounge chair seating, just like contemporary flights! 

Contemporary seating configurations in airliners had their ancestry in the "cattle cars" the military used to contract to move large numbers of troops by air. Lucky me, I got a window seat on the long flight to Rhine Mein. Too bad I was seated next to Moose Franson, which allowed me about 5" inches between the Moose and the cabin wall. 😭


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration! 👍
> 
> Lounge chair seating, just like contemporary flights!
> 
> Contemporary seating configurations in airliners had their ancestry in the "cattle cars" the military used to contract to move large numbers of troops by air. Lucky me, I got a window seat on the long flight to Rhine Mein. Too bad I was seated next to Moose Franson, which allowed me about 5" inches between the Moose and the cabin wall. 😭


Sounds like some pretty luxurious travel arragnements to me. When the USAF sent me to Spangdahlem AFB, I sat in a web seat installed along the external walls and down the center aisle of a C-130 Hercules. Jeez Louise, the soles of my feet and my rosy red butt cheeks vibrated for two days after our arrival Good times.....I don't think so! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Sounds like some pretty luxurious travel arragnements to me. When the USAF sent me to Spangdahlem AFB, I sat in a web seat installed along the external walls and down the center aisle of a C-130 Hercules. Jeez Louise, the soles of my feet and my rosy red butt cheeks vibrated for two days after our arrival Good times.....I don't think so! LOL.


Sounds like great fun! 

During my 4 years, the USAF had the good sense not to allow me anywhere near a military aircraft. When I got out, I was routinely asked what kind of plane I was on. Always responded that I flew an MC-88. This was the USAF designation for a manual typewriter! :icon_saint7kg:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61420


Great illustration of a great suit. :loveyou:

In my youth, they shared prominence with Hart, Schaffner and Marx with both making nice upper middle quality tailored clothing. The sort of thing I eventually hoped to graduate to from the Robert Hall of my boyhood. 

Just learned, per below, that they were a brand of the Botany 500 group, which had its origins in NJ and Philadelphia -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botany_500


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration of a great suit. :loveyou:
> 
> In my youth, they shared prominence with Hart, Schaffner and Marx with both making nice upper middle quality tailored clothing. The sort of thing I eventually hoped to graduate to from the Robert Hall of my boyhood.
> 
> Just learned, per below, that they were a brand of the Botany 500 group, which had its origins in NJ and Philadelphia -
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botany_500


As a kid, my mom would take me to Robert Hall about once a year to get a navy blazer and pair of grey dress trousers (bought a bit too big for me to "grow into" and then, at the end, worn too tight for a bit) for the few "dress up"events (a family wedding, funeral, or maybe a birthday dinner out) we'd have each year. She had no idea at all about men's clothes, but someone must of told her to get a navy blazer and grey trousers as she did that for me religiously.



Flanderian said:


> View attachment 61425


I would wear this outfit (but with a leather belt) today in a situation that called for it.


----------



## Oldsarge

How it happened, I'll never know but every place the Army sent me in my 29 years, I flew commercial except one flight to Oahu. Flying sitting backward facing in a Starlifter was roomier and more comfortable than any coach seat I ever sat in. The one to and from Maui was miserable.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> As a kid, my mom would take me to Robert Hall about once a year to get a navy blazer and pair of grey dress trousers (bought a bit too big for me to "grow into" and then, at the end, worn too tight for a bit) for the few "dress up"events (a family wedding, funeral, or maybe a birthday dinner out) we'd have each year. She had no idea at all about men's clothes, but someone must of told her to get a navy blazer and grey trousers as she did that for me religiously.


For me it was one suit a year, which I got to wear each Sunday to church, along with all the other kids. Like yours, my mother had little sense of sartorial style, but a great belief in propriety. I.e., clothes that were clean, well mended and appropriate to the occasion.

And like your mother, my clothing was always purchased too large, so I could grow into it, and since I was a big kid I had two types of clothing; clothing that was too large, and clothing that was worn out! :icon_cheers: I have no doubt that these experiences lie somewhere at the root of my sartorial obsessions. But I am grateful for her care, as among my contemporaries were many who did not receive the same.



Fading Fast said:


> I would wear this outfit (but with a leather belt) today in a situation that called for it.


Clever economy in this add using only one color of ink to great effect.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> That is a great looking suit, but personally I'm still looking for the airline that offers all that legroom and room to move around in. It just doesn't exist...never has and never will!


Actually such an airline did exist, my friend!

In the 1980s and 1990s, up here in Wisconsin, we had the Milwaukee-based Midwest Express airlines which had first-class style seats throughout. Wide, comfortable, plenty of legroom and two abreast. They also served excellent cold food -- things like fruit, cheese, cold cuts, bread and a very nice shrimp cocktail. Real china and glass and proper cutlery. This airline, unfortunately, went out of business. A crying shame, if you ask me.


----------



## FiscalDean

drpeter said:


> Actually such an airline did exist, my friend!
> 
> In the 1980s and 1990s, up here in Wisconsin, we had the Milwaukee-based Midwest Express airlines which had first-class style seats throughout. Wide, comfortable, plenty of legroom and two abreast. They also served excellent cold food -- things like fruit, cheese, cold cuts, bread and a very nice shrimp cocktail. Real china and glass and proper cutlery. This airline, unfortunately, went out of business. A crying shame, if you ask me.


Actually, Midwest Express was originally operated as a department of Kimberly Clark shuttling executives back and forth between Neenah, WI and Atlanta. Eventually, someone thought others who fly regularly might appreciate their service and it was spun off.

They served a choice of two hot meals, usually one beef and one a poultry or seafood dish. In addition to the meal, they also offered unlimited wine, cocktails and post prandial beverages. Most flights also featured chocolate cookies right out of the oven!

The airline was eventually acquired by Pacific Airways Holdings, I believe it was around 2010.


----------



## drpeter

Yes, I am familiar with the airlines' origins with Kimberly Clark. I have also heard that the airlines went into decline after the events of 9/11. And I do remember the warm chocolate chip cookies!


----------



## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> Actually, Midwest Express was originally operated as a department of Kimberly Clark shuttling executives back and forth between Neenah, WI and Atlanta. Eventually, someone thought others who fly regularly might appreciate their service and it was spun off.
> 
> They served a choice of two hot meals, usually one beef and one a poultry or seafood dish. In addition to the meal, they also offered unlimited wine, cocktails and post prandial beverages. Most flights also featured chocolate cookies right out of the oven!
> 
> The airline was eventually acquired by Pacific Airways Holdings, I believe it was around 2010.


That's a neat-as-heck story. I love origin stories like that where you find out how some quirky thing came into being. Plus, you had me at the warm cookies.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61468


Would you feed your horse, cola?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61468


Der Bingel! 👍 👍 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Would you feed your horse, cola?


It's OK Howard, it's Royal Crown.


----------



## Flanderian

The casual side of Trad -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Love seeing the old BB ads.

⇩ Some odds and ends for Sunday


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love seeing the old BB ads.
> 
> ⇩ Some odds and ends for Sunday
> 
> View attachment 61515
> View attachment 61517
> View attachment 61516


Lovely illustrations! :loveyou:

The center one is particularly touching.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 61521


Wonderful illustration, but do you see much / any difference in this cut from the previous BB cuts?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Wonderful illustration, but do you see much / any difference in this cut from the previous BB cuts?


Far be it for me to step on Brooks' ad text, but you're right. Could be an instance of chicken or the egg, as I haven't any into on the relative chronology of each ad.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Figures 616 and 608 look identical, except for the darker shading in the latter. Likewise, Figure 609 is identical to the the one to its right (the Fig number is cut off, maybe 610?), except for differences in shading and the presence or absence of stripes. I wonder why.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61530


From the examples on the illustration above, it would appear that the skin tight continental fit that appeals to so many and yet confuses and confounds the rest of us , is really nothing new, but rather a more vintage fashion that came, went and has raised it's disturbing head a subsequent time! Clothes that fit properly are comfortable. The examples in that illustration do not appear to be so. Sorry.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> From the examples on the illustration above, it would appear that the skin tight continental fit that appeals to so many and yet confuses and confounds the rest of us , is really nothing new, but rather a more vintage fashion that came, went and has raised it's disturbing head a subsequent time! Clothes that fit properly are comfortable. The examples in that illustration do not appear to be so. Sorry.


From illustrations like this, dated 1922 (lower center and left), I've seen that the 1920s definitely fitted men's suits, etc., more like today with the pants cut shorter as well. But it did keep sport coat and suit jacket lengths to more traditional measures.

I had always thought the reason was the "suit-tie-shirt" construct as we know it was only coming into being in the 1920s and they hadn't yet gotten the fit right, which they would do, overall, in the 1930s.

But as we've seen, not only today, but off and on from the '30s on, they've played around with the proportions and fit a lot, sometimes exaggerating the looseness and sometimes, like today, making them very tight. That said, with the entire construct losing support, I wonder if there will be a return to a more traditional balance or if the suit-tie-shirt construct will just, sadly, fade away.



drpeter said:


> Figures 616 and 608 look identical, except for the darker shading in the latter. Likewise, Figure 609 is identical to the the one to its right (the Fig number is cut off, maybe 610?), except for differences in shading and the presence or absence of stripes. I wonder why.


This appears to be some sort of "insider" to the fashion world sketch page. Maybe the answer to your question lies in what it was used for as you are clearly correct that the illustrations are repeated, but slightly altered.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> From the examples on the illustration above, it would appear that the skin tight continental fit that appeals to so many and yet confuses and confounds the rest of us , is really nothing new, but rather a more vintage fashion that came, went and has raised it's disturbing head a subsequent time! Clothes that fit properly are comfortable. The examples in that illustration do not appear to be so. Sorry.


You're bang on target! Styles and fashions are cyclical. When I was a teenager in the sixties, we were all wearing drainpipe trousers, and this astounded our fathers because they were used to the looser, pleated trousers of the forties and fifties. But it did not astound people of an earlier generation who were familiar with tight, flat-front trousers. They belonged to the Edwardian generation, as they were called in that country across the pond. So it goes.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Far be it for me to step on Brooks' ad text, but you're right. Could be an instance of chicken or the egg, as I haven't any into on the relative chronology of each ad.


Brooks Brothers' No 1 Sack Suit, dating back to the 1890s, was essentially borrowed from the English styles of the day: Three buttons, natural shoulders, and so forth. We think of it now as American, of course, but like the BB button-down shirt, it had its origins in England.

Cross-national influences in clothes and styles are always interesting topics. In his various essays, Bruce Boyer has considered these topics. The origins of various articles of clothing and their design tell us about cultures and their influence. When we think about it, the suit, in its many forms and variations, has now spread around the world. Its regional adaptations in cultures as different and far-flung as India, China and Japan are nothing short of amazing.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61530





eagle2250 said:


> From the examples on the illustration above, it would appear that the skin tight continental fit that appeals to so many and yet confuses and confounds the rest of us , is really nothing new, but rather a more vintage fashion that came, went and has raised it's disturbing head a subsequent time! Clothes that fit properly are comfortable. The examples in that illustration do not appear to be so. Sorry.





Fading Fast said:


> From illustrations like this, dated 1922 (lower center and left), I've seen that the 1920s definitely fitted men's suits, etc., more like today with the pants cut shorter as well. But it did keep sport coat and suit jacket lengths to more traditional measures.
> 
> I had always thought the reason was the "suit-tie-shirt" construct as we know it was only coming into being in the 1920s and they hadn't yet gotten the fit right, which they would do, overall, in the 1930s.
> 
> But as we've seen, not only today, but off and on from the '30s on, they've played around with the proportions and fit a lot, sometimes exaggerating the looseness and sometimes, like today, making them very tight. That said, with the entire construct losing support, I wonder if there will be a return to a more traditional balance or if the suit-tie-shirt construct will just, sadly, fade away.
> 
> This appears to be some sort of "insider" to the fashion world sketch page. Maybe the answer to your question lies in what it was used for as you are clearly correct that the illustrations are repeated, but slightly altered.





drpeter said:


> You're bang on target! Styles and fashions are cyclical. When I was a teenager in the sixties, we were all wearing drainpipe trousers, and this astounded our fathers because they were used to the looser, pleated trousers of the forties and fifties. But it did not astound people of an earlier generation who were familiar with tight, flat-front trousers. They belonged to the Edwardian generation, as they were called in that country across the pond. So it goes.


This is a splendid fashion illustration from the '20's. 👍

But the both thinness of the figures, and snugness of the fit are a bit exaggerated. Though certainly the typical tailored clothing of the '20's fit more closely than the drape jacket, and Oxford Bag inspired trousers of the the '30's that followed.

"Gentleman" Jimmy Walker, Mayor of NYC, considered a very stylish man of the era is shown below wearing a more typical '20's cut and fit.


----------



## drpeter

I wish Gentleman Jim's trousers were visible in this photograph. Here is an illustration of Edwardian clothes, from the early 1900s. Not quite the drainpipe trousers of the sixties, but fairly tight and tapered legs. Also the frock coat is still clearly the style in jackets, four buttons being the norm.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> I wish Gentleman Jim's trousers were visible in this photograph. Here is an illustration of Edwardian clothes, from the early 1900s. Not quite the drainpipe trousers of the sixties, but fairly tight and tapered legs. Also the frock coat is still clearly the style in jackets, four buttons being the norm.
> 
> View attachment 61532


Yes, very typical of the stylish gent! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

From the hand of the master -


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> From the hand of the master -
> 
> View attachment 61533


Would that master be JC Leyendecker whose illustrations and art adorned the pages of the old _Saturday Evening Post_?


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Would that master be JC Leyendecker whose illustrations and art adorned the pages of the old _Saturday Evening Post_?


Indeed! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast

J. C. Leyendecker, I believe, created what became the Paul Stuart logo "The Man on the Fence." It is one of the very few logos I actually like (discretely place on a few casual items) as it is beautiful and, pretty much, no one knows what it is anyway.


----------



## drpeter

Agreed. It's a nice image, and a good logo.

I did a bit of research on it. I think the fence-sitter is based on the fictional character Dink Stover, in Owen Johnson's 1912 novel _Stover at Yale_, set during the early 20th century. I haven't read it, but the description of the book reminded me of another novel I have actually read about campus culture, set in the late 1950s: _The Final Club_ (1990) by Geoffrey Wolff.

The image (or its concept) was chosen by Clifford Grodd, who was CEO of Paul Stuart. I'm not sure if the Leyendecker artwork was selected from a variety of similar images, or if Grodd had a particular affinity for the Stover character. Grodd passed away in 2010.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Agreed. It's a nice image, and a good logo.
> 
> I did a bit of research on it. I think the fence-sitter is based on the fictional character Dink Stover, in Owen Johnson's 1912 novel _Stover at Yale_, set during the early 20th century. I haven't read it, but the description of the book reminded me of another novel I have actually read about campus culture, set in the late 1950s: _The Final Club_ (1990) by Geoffrey Wolff.
> 
> The image (or its concept) was chosen by Clifford Grodd, who was CEO of Paul Stuart. I'm not sure if the Leyendecker artwork was selected from a variety of similar images, or if Grodd had a particular affinity for the Stover character. Grodd passed away in 2010.


I've read both books you reference and you are correct, there's a somewhat similar vibe. "Stover at Yale" is a very of-it-period book in style and plotting, which might turn some off, but I enjoyed it. Fitzgerald's "This Side of Paradise" also captures some of that "a young man at an Ivy school who doesn't quite fit in," theme as well.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> J. C. Leyendecker, I believe, created what became the Paul Stuart logo "The Man on the Fence." It is one of the very few logos I actually like (discretely place on a few casual items) as it is beautiful and, pretty much, no one knows what it is anyway.
> View attachment 61585


He did, but prior to being appropriated by Paul Stuart, it served a different commercial interest -


----------



## Flanderian

Also by J. C. Leyendecker -


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> He did, but prior to being appropriated by Paul Stuart, it served a different commercial interest -
> 
> View attachment 61597


That is neat. I've seen it as the Interwoven ad before, but don't remember it having color in the tie (or at all), but that could very easily just be my memory being wrong. Do you know if the original illustration had color as shown here?

The more I think about it, I realize, I just don't remember as I've looked at this illustration for many years in many iterations and no longer have a clear memory of its progression through time.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> That is neat. I've seen it as the Interwoven ad before, but don't remember it having color in the tie (or at all), but that could very easily just be my memory being wrong. Do you know if the original illustration had color as shown here?
> 
> The more I think about it, I realize, I just don't remember as I've looked at this illustration for many years in many iterations and no longer have a clear memory of its progression through time.


I believe it did. I'm first familiar with the image as an ad in vintage Esquire, and believe that was its original use. Don't know if the ad also appeared elsewhere. I've got the entire original ad archived among my Esquire and/or Interwoven Socks images, and will dig it out when I've a bit more time. Unfortunately, by archive is rather haphazard and isn't searchable, so I require a bit of time to locate it. But I enjoy doing it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I believe it did. I'm first familiar with the image as an ad in vintage Esquire, and believe that was its original use. Don't know if the ad also appeared elsewhere. I've got the entire original ad archived among my Esquire and/or Interwoven Socks images, and will dig it out when I've a bit more time. Unfortunately, by archive is rather haphazard and isn't searchable, so I require a bit of time to locate it. But I enjoy doing it.


Please don't put yourself out as, one, I'm sure your memory is correct and, two, it's nothing more than idle curiosity. My guess, somewhere along the line, I saw it in black and white and that's what stuck in my head. Any which way, it's just such a cool illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Please don't put yourself out as, one, I'm sure your memory is correct and, two, it's nothing more than idle curiosity. My guess, somewhere along the line, I saw it in black and white and that's what stuck in my head. Any which way, it's just such a cool illustration.


No bother, you've got me curious now too.

And you've got far more confidence in my memory than I do!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> That is neat. I've seen it as the Interwoven ad before, but don't remember it having color in the tie (or at all), but that could very easily just be my memory being wrong. Do you know if the original illustration had color as shown here?
> 
> The more I think about it, I realize, I just don't remember as I've looked at this illustration for many years in many iterations and no longer have a clear memory of its progression through time.


Have looked through my archive and can't find a better version of the image than the one I posted, though I can swear I've seen the full page ad. Should I run across it in the future, I'll post it.

One of the reasons I believe the color is original to this ad is that orange is always the signature color for the brand's logo, and all the color in the ad is orange. Of course, that's not to say that other non-color versions weren't also published contemporaneously.

An added bit of interest I learned in my poking around is that the Interwoven ad is from 1921. As such, it predates Esquire, so I was mistaken about seeing it there.

Edit: Thinking further about the nature of the illustration made me curious concerning it being Dink Stover.. I don't know if that character featured in any other book, but the one I found is *Stover at Yale*. And the copy I found lists a Frederick R. Cruger as the illustrator, clearly not the Leyendecker illustration of the subject ad. Though that certainly doesn't preclude Leyendecker from having done a later illustration of the same character.


----------



## Flanderian

In recompense here's another particularly nice George B. Shepard illustration. This was also part of an Interwoven ad.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Have looked through my archive and can't find a better version of the image than the one I posted, though I can swear I've seen the full page ad. Should I run across it in the future, I'll post it.
> 
> One of the reasons I believe the color is original to this ad is that orange is always the signature color for the brand's logo, and all the color in the ad is orange. Of course, that's not to say that other non-color versions weren't also published contemporaneously.
> 
> An added bit of interest I learned in my poking around is that the Interwove ad is from 1921. As such, it predates Esquire, so I was mistaken about seeing it there.
> 
> Edit: Thinking further about the nature of the illustration made me curious concerning it being Dink Stover.. I don't know if that character featured in any other book, but the one I found is *Stover at Yale*. And the copy I found lists a Frederick R. Cruger as the illustrator, clearly not the Leyendecker illustration of the subject ad. Though that certainly doesn't preclude Leyendecker from having done a later illustration of the same character.





Flanderian said:


> In recompense here's another particularly nice George B. Shepard illustration. This was also part of an Interwoven ad.
> 
> View attachment 61623


Thank you for all the sleuthing. ⇧That's a wonderful illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> He did, but prior to being appropriated by Paul Stuart, it served a different commercial interest -
> 
> View attachment 61597


Paul Stuart dispensed with the pipe and the book when they adapted this image.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Paul Stuart dispensed with the pipe and the book when they adapted this image.


I thought he still had a book. No? I just Googled it and I think the book is still there, but you could be right.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I thought he still had a book. No? I just Googled it and I think the book is still there, but you could be right.


You're right. He still has the book, judging by a couple of examples I looked at.

I think the book and the pipe symbolized college students in those days. Pipe smoking was considered a collegiate habit well into the fifties, perhaps.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61625


Very '50's! :icon_cheers:

I wore a suit or sport jacket and tie when traveling by air into the early '70's. It was just a thing that was done. I recall taking a couple weeks leave in June '70 and visiting London and Edinburgh and wearing same on both international flights. Though I didn't on the BEA flight from Heathrow to Edinburgh. Good thing too! The poor stewardess managed to douse the same passenger twice with drinks during the short flight! 😁


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


>


 "An Oxford man!" He was incredulous. "Like hell he is! He wears a pinksuit."

Tom Buchanan discussing Jay Gatsby.

- *The Great Gatsby*


----------



## ran23

I never flew back in the day, I missed so much.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> "An Oxford man!" He was incredulous. "Like hell he is! He wears a pinksuit."
> 
> Tom Buchanan discussing Jay Gatsby.
> 
> - *The Great Gatsby*


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61674


Wow! I wanna go! :loveyou:


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## Flanderian




----------



## Oldsarge




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## Flanderian

Very 40's! 👍


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## Flanderian




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## Fading Fast

⇧ Nice


----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 61694


What kind of drink is he consuming?


----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> What kind of drink is he consuming?


Judging by the bottle next to the tray of glasses and the ice bucket, it's probably bourbon.
Four Roses is a bourbon that does not seem to be widely popular in our country. The first time I saw a bottle was, interestingly enough, in Amsterdam, and not in the US, the birthplace of bourbon whisky.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 61722


The jacket on the left, with the pleated and belted back most appeals to my taste id jacket designs.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nice
> 
> View attachment 61724


Handsome suit well put together! 👍



drpeter said:


> Judging by the bottle next to the tray of glasses and the ice bucket, it's probably bourbon.
> Four Roses is a bourbon that does not seem to be widely popular in our country. The first time I saw a bottle was, interestingly enough, in Amsterdam, and not in the US, the birthplace of bourbon whisky.


In my youth, the cheap stuff, widely available and favored by those who might regularly consume its ilk for breakfast.



eagle2250 said:


> The jacket on the left, with the pleated and belted back most appeals to my taste id jacket designs.


Me to.


----------



## Flanderian

More booze ads. "Work is the curse of the drinking class." -










And just because I gottta. 'Cause it's so darn nice!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

There's a suit I would love to have, especially if it is a dove grey in cotton/poplin. I like the three button front, but I'd dispense with the breast pocket flap. And perhaps add a 1-3/4" cuff for the trousers. It would be a perfect summer suit.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> There's a suit I would love to have, especially if it is a dove grey in cotton/poplin. I like the three button front, but I'd dispense with the breast pocket flap. And perhaps add a 1-3/4" cuff for the trousers. It would be a perfect summer suit.


I'm with you. In the '90s, I had a cotton (I think blended with wool, but the cotton dominated) dove grey suit. It was a wonderful summer suit. Dove grey, done right, was never easy to find, which is why I never replaced it and now, of course, I imagine, unless custom, it would be impossible.

I also owned a Haspel poplin grey, but that was more of a medium grey color. Also a wonderful summer suit as it was light and comfortable but took a pretty good beating and was inexpensive.

I miss the time when suits were a big part of menswear so you'd find a large selection of them everywhere with some quirky ones, like a cotton-wool dove-grey summer suit, mixed into this or that store's offering. The suit was the backbone of a man's wardrobe and menswear stores responded accordingly.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I'm with you. In the '90s, I had a cotton (I think blended with wool, but the cotton dominated) dove grey suit. It was a wonderful summer suit. Dove grey, done right, was never easy to find, which is why I never replaced it and now, of course, I imagine, unless custom, it would be impossible.
> 
> I also owned a Haspel poplin grey, but that was more of a medium grey color. Also a wonderful summer suit as it was light and comfortable but took a pretty good beating and was inexpensive.
> 
> I miss the time when suits were a big part of menswear so you'd find a large selection of them everywhere with some quirky ones, like a cotton-wool dove-grey summer suit, mixed into this or that store's offering. The suit was the backbone of a man's wardrobe and menswear stores responded accordingly.


It is both rare and memorable. I had a dove grey linen 3/2 sack from Brooks Brothers in the 1970s.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61744


*Very* nice! 👍

And remarkable in several ways First, it's a good example of how a skilled sartorialist can put together an ensemble in a variety of modes and look darn good by knowing what they're doing. Excellent fit and proportion, this outfit could be worn well by men of a variety of physiques.

Secondly, if you told me this came from the '20's, I'd believe you. But If you instead told me it came from the late '50's, I'd also believe you. Fashion was surprisingly similar in many regards in each.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 61750


The suit is nice, but I would definitely lose the gloves from that right coat pocket. If you have to, put them in a pocket of the Trench coat.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61804


Love the suit and the cane ads an element of mystery to the gentleman we see...enough so that he has captured the undivided attention of the perky young thing who appears to be giving our hero her best "come hither" look!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Love the suit and the cane ads an element of mystery to the gentleman we see...enough so that he has captured the undivided attention of the perky young thing who appears to be giving our hero her best "come hither" look!


Based on her flapper-looking outfit, I'm guessing it's the 1920s and his cane is a "walking stick," which for some God-unknown reason, some healthy men used to carry.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Based on her flapper-looking outfit, I'm guessing it's the 1920s and his cane is a "walking stick," which for some God-unknown reason, some healthy men used to carry.


They must have carried them to fend off all the admiring females.


----------



## drpeter

I think canes were carried by English gentlemen of standing, and often the canes had gold or silver handles. It may have been a replacement for the sword, and it was a bit of ostentation, a display of wealth. The umbrella replaced the cane in the 1930s, and became a common accessory -- a bit more functional given the nature of English weather!

In India, Army officers often carried swagger sticks, which were shorter than canes. They could be used for all sorts of things, including pointing to parts of a soldier's uniform "turnout" that needed improvement. Some carried a shooting stick which also had a split top and a pointed lower end, so it could be stuck into the ground and the top opened up to form a seat for the officer to sit on. Clever, right?


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I think canes were carried by English gentlemen of standing, and often the canes had gold or silver handles. It may have been a replacement for the sword, and it was a bit of ostentation, a display of wealth. The umbrella replaced the cane in the 1930s, and became a common accessory -- a bit more functional given the nature of English weather!
> 
> In India, Army officers often carried swagger sticks, which were shorter than canes. They could be used for all sorts of things, including pointing to parts of a soldier's uniform "turnout" that needed improvement. Some carried a shooting stick which also had a split top and a pointed lower end, so it could be stuck into the ground and the top opened up to form a seat for the officer to sit on. Clever, right?
> 
> View attachment 61810


I've got one of those posted field seats. Rather nifty design, but it's not all that comfortable to sit upon. Though it is better than nothing, I suppose. and it is a great conversation piece, leaning against a flatboat bookcase in the Man Cave.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61804


Great illustration! 👍



Fading Fast said:


> Based on her flapper-looking outfit, I'm guessing it's the 1920s and his cane is a "walking stick," which for some God-unknown reason, some healthy men used to carry.


And some unhealthy ones lean upon one. 🥲



drpeter said:


> I think canes were carried by English gentlemen of standing, and often the canes had gold or silver handles. It may have been a replacement for the sword, and it was a bit of ostentation, a display of wealth. The umbrella replaced the cane in the 1930s, and became a common accessory -- a bit more functional given the nature of English weather!
> 
> In India, Army officers often carried swagger sticks, which were shorter than canes. They could be used for all sorts of things, including pointing to parts of a soldier's uniform "turnout" that needed improvement. Some carried a shooting stick which also had a split top and a pointed lower end, so it could be stuck into the ground and the top opened up to form a seat for the officer to sit on. Clever, right?
> 
> View attachment 61810


Rather than replace, why not combine? 












eagle2250 said:


> I've got one of those posted field seats. Rather nifty design, but it's not all that comfortable to sit upon. Though it is better than nothing, I suppose. and it is a great conversation piece, leaning against a flatboat bookcase in the Man Cave.


And a handsome decor it sounds! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

In the summertime . . . .


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I've got one of those posted field seats. Rather nifty design, but it's not all that comfortable to sit upon. Though it is better than nothing, I suppose. and it is a great conversation piece, leaning against a flatboat bookcase in the Man Cave.


And what, pray, is a flatboat bookcase? As a book collector, I'm dying to know, LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Rather than replace, whey not combine?


I do have a wooden cane with a short sword (I think that's the right descriptor, it is longer than a knife) hidden inside the body of the cane. This was given to me as a gift by a friend who was a gun collector and dealer in Madison, Wisc, and who also dabbled a bit in edged weapons of various sorts.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> I do have a wooden cane with a short sword (I think that's the right descriptor, it is longer than a knife) hidden inside the body of the cane. This was given to me as a gift by a friend who was a gun collector and dealer in Madison, Wisc, and who also dabbled a bit in edged weapons of various sorts.


Sounds like a pleasant gift.

I've admired both fine sticks and fine weapons for much of my life. I know my interest in both fire arms and edged weapons originated in boyhood. And while among the most peaceful of men, I'm still fascinated by beautiful examples of each.

My fondness for sticks began roughly 40 years ago when I purchased a couple which I added to over the years. Ironically, I was to become dependent upon one perhaps a dozen years ago, which at least gives me a good reason to carry it! 

Sword canes are unfortunately against statute to carry in most jurisdictions, but a friend, knowing my fondness for sticks, presented me with a gag gift of an inexpensive one made up for tourists in Mexico. Comparatively useless for either purpose, it none-the-less resides in my umbrella stand with my other sticks, never to be carried. :icon_saint7kg:

But I've been intrigued by the sticks offered by Burger Knives since discovering them. They are both serious weapons intended for defense in a dangerous place, and IMHO authentic works of contemporary armory art.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Sounds like a pleasant gift.
> 
> I've admired both fine sticks and fine weapons for much of my life. I know my interest in both fire arms and edged weapons originated in boyhood. And while among the most peaceful of men, I'm still fascinated by beautiful examples of each.
> 
> My fondness for sticks began roughly 40 years ago when I purchased a couple which I added to over the years. Ironically, I was to become dependent upon one perhaps a dozen years ago, which at least gives me a good reason to carry it!
> 
> Sword canes are unfortunately against statute to carry in most jurisdictions, but a friend, knowing my fondness for sticks, presented me with a gag gift of an inexpensive one made up for tourists in Mexico. Comparatively useless for either purpose, it none-the-less resides in my umbrella stand with my other sticks, never to be carried. :icon_saint7kg:
> 
> But I've been intrigued by the sticks offered by Burger Knives since discovering them. They are both serious weapons intended for defense in a dangerous place, and IMHO authentic works of contemporary armory art.
> 
> View attachment 61848
> 
> 
> View attachment 61847


One edged weapon I possess, and honour, is a _Kukri_, a Gurkha knife. It is a pretty lethal weapon, and it is bigger than a standard knife. I would love to pick up a good quality _Kris_ someday, the curvy/wavy-bladed knife common in Malaya and Indonesia, often with interesting histories and associations.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> One edged weapon I possess, and honour, is a _Kukri_, a Gurkha knife. It is a pretty lethal weapon, and it is bigger than a standard knife. I would love to pick up a good quality _Kris_ someday, the curvy/wavy-bladed knife common in Malaya and Indonesia, often with interesting histories and associations.
> 
> View attachment 61850
> 
> 
> View attachment 61851


The Kukri in your photo is a very beautiful knife, and undoubtedly both a fearsome weapon, and useful general purpose tool. Beautifully made! 👍

The Kris is a work of art and looks as if it might have come straight from a museum.

My knife collection consists of a few simple pocket knives with blades of around 3" inches. I've found the only time I need a knife is when I don't have one.  And they are possibly the single most useful, easy to carry personal tools I possess.

But I have definite preferences. One is a lovely small Damascus steel lockback with figured wood scales that I annoy my wife with by calling it my dress knife. The remaining two are one hand knives and also lockbacks. I was taught as a boy that a folding knife that doesn't lock is an accident waiting to happen. And experience has proven that true. I like them small, light, flat and sharp.

When my oldest granddaughter was very young, I was helping her undo some cardboard packaging with which she struggled, and used my pocket knife to cut it apart. Shortly afterward she went surreptitiously out to our kitchen and whispered dramatically to my wife, "Grandpa has a knife!" Soon to be a junior in college, I enjoy recounting to her at every opportunity the day she ratted out her grandpa! :icon_saint7kg:


----------



## Oldsarge

From about the age of nine I carried a pocket knife everywhere I went, even to school. It was illegal and I knew it. Didn't care and never got caught. But I told my students that it wasn't legal for me and if I caught them with one they were doomed. For years I carried at least one, sometimes two and, on strange occasions, three. One day I was about to leave the house and realized that I had four blades on my person. That was absurd! So I went back inside and put two of them away. These days about the only thing I carry is a Leatherman. Being without a knife is disturbing.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> And what, pray, is a flatboat bookcase? As a book collector, I'm dying to know, LOL.


It's a bookcase made in the shape of a flat bottomed row boat. I' will try to get a picture and post it later!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61853


A modern day knight perhaps, tasking a walk with his favored saber! The walking sticks I picked up for use when we go out hiking, are not equipped with a blade, but they have proven quite useful in keeping oneself vertical and for fending off offending snakes that appear almost out of nowhere! LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

I always considered a cane as an aid to walking, usually for the aged or the disabled. A walking stick was a personal weapon for the gentleman about town. I have been advised that on the other side of the pond the definitions are reversed. No surprise there, England and America are divided by a common language, as the old saying goes. But having no ruffians locally to fend off, all of mine sit in the umbrella stand gathering dust unless I have some rough ground to traverse. I did in Hawaii. The ground there is so rough that I am giving much thought to purchasing a pair of hiking poles. It's a first world problem.


----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> From about the age of nine I carried a pocket knife everywhere I went, even to school. It was illegal and I knew it. Didn't care and never got caught. But I told my students that it wasn't legal for me and if I caught them with one they were doomed. For years I carried at least one, sometimes two and, on strange occasions, three. One day I was about to leave the house and realized that I had four blades on my person. That was absurd! So I went back inside and put two of them away. These days about the only thing I carry is a Leatherman. Being without a knife is disturbing.


Cute story! 👍

Serves the little miscreants right. 

I'm sure it's purely a product of my own lack of knowledge and imagination, but what the heck do you do with 3 or 4 folding knives on your person? I only ever carry one. Currently the lower of the two below. Have found better blade steel to be a revelation.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61853


Wonderful illustration! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian said:


> Cute story! 👍
> 
> Serves the little miscreants right.
> 
> I'm sure it's purely a product of my own lack of knowledge and imagination, but what the heck do you do with 3 or 4 folding knives on your person? I only ever carry one. Currently the lower of the two below. Have found better blade steel to be a revelation.
> 
> View attachment 61862


As I recall, that morning I had a Leatherman on my belt, a common jackknife in the right front pocket, a 'hunter's scalpel' on a lanyard around my neck and a Lone Wolf folding stiletto in my back pocket. Why? I haven't a clue and that's why I went back inside and put the hunter's scalpel and the stiletto away. Two is plenty.


----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> As I recall, that morning I had a Leatherman on my belt, a common jackknife in the right front pocket, a 'hunter's scalpel' on a lanyard around my neck and a Lone Wolf folding stiletto in my back pocket. Why? I haven't a clue and that's why I went back inside and put the hunter's scalpel and the stiletto away. Two is plenty.


Travis Bickle? 










You're scaring me now, Sarge!


----------



## Oldsarge

He has more hair than I do.


----------



## Howard

I've always wondered as to why those pimps carry walking canes as they're not disabled, could it be that the cane gives them a cool look to them?


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> I've always wondered as to why those pimps carry walking canes as they're not disabled, could it be that the cane gives them a cool look to them?


Could be. You can never tell - that might even be a good look for you! I suggest you start off with a swagger stick like the fellow below. You know, like a starter kit? You can use it to smack rude shoppers who don't return their carts to the proper place.

irate:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Could be. You can never tell - that might even be a good look for you! I suggest you start off with a swagger stick like the fellow below. You know, like a starter kit? You can use it to smack rude shoppers who don't return their carts to the proper place.
> 
> irate:
> 
> View attachment 61907


LOL.


----------



## drpeter

In many of these old illustrations, the artist, whether by convention or by demand from those who commission the work, created human beings with exaggerated lengths for legs, very often seen in depictions of women. Perhaps because of our culture's admiration for long legs, LOL. This one seems especially marked, and unusually so for the man. The distance from the waist to the shoes is twice the distance between the waist and the top of the head. While extremes will always exist (many human characteristics appear to follow a statistical normal distribution), legs and torsos usually have about the same length, on average.

The most exaggerated proportions I have seen are in the depiction of the woman holding the torch in the well-known Columbia Pictures logo. It is a depiction of Columbia as a personification of the United States. Over the years, the legs have become longer and longer relative to the torso!


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> As I recall, that morning I had a Leatherman on my belt, a common jackknife in the right front pocket, a 'hunter's scalpel' on a lanyard around my neck and a Lone Wolf folding stiletto in my back pocket. Why? I haven't a clue and that's why I went back inside and put the hunter's scalpel and the stiletto away. Two is plenty.


Good heavens, Sarge! You were armed and dangerous that morning, LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian said:


> Could be. You can never tell - that might even be a good look for you! I suggest you start off with a swagger stick like the fellow below. You know, like a starter kit? You can use it to smack rude shoppers who don't return their carts to the proper place.
> 
> irate:
> 
> View attachment 61907


I often regret that the US Army doesn't see fit to equip its senior NCO's with such. I would have felt quite dashing striding around the post with one--and maybe just a bit even more authoritative.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Travis Bickle?
> 
> View attachment 61875
> 
> 
> You're scaring me now, Sarge!





Oldsarge said:


> He has more hair than I do.


Damn. Travis Bickle's wearing my haircut! Perhaps it's time for me to change hairstyles. But Travis better not mess with me... I'll pull out my 3" Buck knife folder, with a 2" blade and frighten him off. Yea, that's my storey and I am sticking to it! LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61913


Great illustration and a nice suit, for sure. A plus in this one is it illustrates proper manners...a gentleman always opens and holds the car door for his lady. LOL, I've been doing this so long for Mrs Eagle, she might eventually get used to and grow to expect it! I've actually managed to pass this trait on to our grand sons.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61913


YOWZER! :loveyou:


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> In many of these old illustrations, the artist, whether by convention or by demand from those who commission the work, created human beings with exaggerated lengths for legs, very often seen in depictions of women. Perhaps because of our culture's admiration for long legs, LOL. This one seems especially marked, and unusually so for the man. The distance from the waist to the shoes is twice the distance between the waist and the top of the head. While extremes will always exist (many human characteristics appear to follow a statistical normal distribution), legs and torsos usually have about the same length, on average.
> 
> The most exaggerated proportions I have seen are in the depiction of the woman holding the torch in the well-known Columbia Pictures logo. It is a depiction of Columbia as a personification of the United States. Over the years, the legs have become longer and longer relative to the torso!


The idealized figure for both men and women is long-legged, and as you point out, often exaggerated when drawn. Member Fading Fast kids that the renowned AA/Esky illustrator Laurence Fellows always had the clothing he illustrated being worn by men 7' tall, as below.

But it's also worth noting that cut and fit of the clothing was intended to maximize that trait, irrespective of physique through high-rise, roomy pleated trousers worn at the waist, a short waistcoat just touching the waistband and a shorter jacket with a distinct waist near the natural waist.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> The idealized figure for both men and women is long-legged, and as you point out, often exaggerated when drawn. Member Fading Fast kids that the renowned AA/Esky illustrator Laurence Fellows always had the clothing he illustrated being worn by men 7' tall, as below.
> 
> But it's also worth noting that cut and fit of the clothing was intended to maximize that trait, irrespective of physique through high-rise, roomy pleated trousers worn at the waist, a short waist coat just touching the waistband and a shorter jacket with a distinct waist near the natural waist.
> 
> View attachment 61922


Which is why it would be nice to live in a "Fellows'" world. We'd all be seven feet tall, good looking, rich and well clad.

Effectively, it's a variation on the famous quote by Cary Grant:

"Everyone wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant"


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Which is why it would be nice to live in a "Fellows'" world. We'd all be seven feet tall, good looking, rich and well clad.
> 
> Effectively, it's a variation on the famous quote by Cary Grant:
> 
> "Everyone wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant"


👍 👍 👍!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Which is why it would be nice to live in a "Fellows'" world. We'd all be seven feet tall, good looking, rich and well clad.


And, tongue firmly lodged in cheek, may I also point out that in a "Fellows" world, we would all be White, almost certainly Anglo-Saxon, and quite likely Protestant, LOL.

Michael Caine once said that everyone does his accent, and in fact he himself does it too.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> And, tongue firmly lodged in cheek, may I also point out that in a "Fellows" world, we would all be White, almost certainly Anglo-Saxon, and quite likely Protestant, LOL.
> 
> Michael Caine once said that everyone does his accent, and in fact he himself does it too.


That largely describes Fellows' world, and the majority of America at the time. I could say nativism runs back to the American war for independence, but it doesn't, it's even older, with each succeeding 2nd generation of native born Americans decrying "foreigners1" 

Though Fellows himself was a man who didn't dwell on his sexual orientation which at the time would have been carefully guarded.

Michael Caine does a beautiful English accent! And if you've had an opportunity to hear him speak in his authentic Cockney accent makes you appreciate what a fine actor he truly is.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> That largely describes Fellows' world, and the majority of America at the time. I could say nativism runs back to the American war for independence, but it doesn't, it's even older, with each succeeding 2nd generation of native born Americans decrying "foreigners1"
> 
> Though Fellows himself was a man who didn't dwell on his sexual orientation which at the time would have been carefully guarded.
> 
> Michael Caine does a beautiful English accent! And if you've had an opportunity to hear him speak in his authentic Cockney accent makes you appreciate what a fine actor he truly is.


Very true, Flanderian. At one time, the Irish, the Italians, and various Middle European/Slavic immigrants were all discriminated against in this country, and most of them were whites! I would say the only group who had it good was the Anglos who were the first Europeans here -- and they could discriminate against Native Americans. Which is why my comment was tongue-in-cheek.

Some day we'll get over it and perhaps treat each other as human beings first, but I'm not holding my breath. And it isn't just here either -- ethnicity and within-ethnic caste systems (like in my old country, India) have been used to discriminate against people all over. Us vs Them.

I'll second that about Caine. He has always been one of my favourite actors. I've heard the Cockney accent, yes, and also others he does quite well.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Very true, Flanderian. At one time, the Irish, the Italians, and various Middle European/Slavic immigrants were all discriminated against in this country, and most of them were whites! I would say the only group who had it good was the Anglos who were the first Europeans here -- and they could discriminate against Native Americans. Which is why my comment was tongue-in-cheek.
> 
> Some day we'll get over it and perhaps treat each other as human beings first, but I'm not holding my breath. And it isn't just here either -- ethnicity and within-ethnic caste systems (like in my old country, India) have been used to discriminate against people all over. Us vs Them.
> 
> I'll second that about Caine. He has always been one of my favourite actors. I've heard the Cockney accent, yes, and also others he does quite well.


You are dead on there, my friend. When my grandfather immigrated from the south of Italy, he wasn't "White". He was too olive-skinned and had too eagle-beak a nose. It's not well known but there was a movement to put Italian-Americans in camps just like the Japanese descended citizenry early in WWII and it was only cancelled because half of Brooklyn and most of Chicago was volunteering. I have read that half the Italian operatives in the OSS were 'soldiers' in their own neighborhoods who just wanted to get back to the Old Country and start throwing knives.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Very true, Flanderian. At one time, the Irish, the Italians, and various Middle European/Slavic immigrants were all discriminated against in this country, and most of them were whites! I would say the only group who had it good was the Anglos who were the first Europeans here -- and they could discriminate against Native Americans. Which is why my comment was tongue-in-cheek.
> 
> Some day we'll get over it and perhaps treat each other as human beings first, but I'm not holding my breath. And it isn't just here either -- ethnicity and within-ethnic caste systems (like in my old country, India) have been used to discriminate against people all over. Us vs Them.
> 
> I'll second that about Caine. He has always been one of my favourite actors. I've heard the Cockney accent, yes, and also others he does quite well.


I don't know, I can see in my mind's eye some Dutchmen standing around New Amsterdam complaining, "Oh no, here come more of those damn Englishmen!" 

And in the former pantheon of Knickerbocker old money, the families of Dutch origin still had a leg up on those of English. :icon_cheers:

I think Caine is marvelous too, as his Cockney accent is his normal speaking voice. London's East End is ripe with interesting history. Wish I'd been aware of it when on holiday there as a lad. Few Cockneys to be seen then either in the theater district, or Earl's Court where I had found lodging. Did have one fellow stop me on the street and request a light for which he cheerily thanked me. Have wondered to this day what it was about my appearance that made him decide on me of whom to make that request? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61940


I hated suits with short pants. Shorts with a blazer and tie was only bearable because it was a uniform and everyone looked like that.


----------



## Fading Fast

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I hated suits with short pants. Shorts with a blazer and tie was only bearable because it was a uniform and everyone looked like that.


I hear ya - not a look I like. That said, while I never lived in that world either era-wise or class-wise, from old pics and movies, it seems it was a quite-common look in parts of the world in certain social classes.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I hear ya - not a look I like. That said, while I never lived in that world either era-wise or class-wise, from old pics and movies, it seems it was a quite-common look in parts of the world in certain social classes.


I hear ya...it was an uncomfortable era for me. Dad was in the Navy,and for some reason my parents stuck me in private schools where I was clearly not in the same league with any of my classmates. They went home to big houses on the water, and I went home to the two bedroom apartment. I begrudgingly admit I received a far better education than the public schools in the area were providing at the time.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61940


Great ad, and great clothing! 👍



Vecchio Vespa said:


> I hear ya...it was an uncomfortable era for me. Dad was in the Navy,and for some reason my parents stuck me in private schools where I was clearly not in the same league with any of my classmates. They went home to big houses on the water, and I went home to the two bedroom apartment. I begrudgingly admit I received a far better education than the public schools in the area were providing at the time.


I can relate to your experience. Except for the private school part. 












Fading Fast said:


> I hear ya - not a look I like. That said, while I never lived in that world either era-wise or class-wise, from old pics and movies, it seems it was a quite-common look in parts of the world in certain social classes.


I think then as now ads were frequently aspirational, reflecting more how we think we'd like to live, than as we do.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oldsarge

LOL That overcoat looks like it should have been _Sûreté_ issue.


----------



## drpeter

As in the French crime branch, the_ Sûreté Nationale_ ?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I hear ya...it was an uncomfortable era for me. Dad was in the Navy,and for some reason my parents stuck me in private schools where I was clearly not in the same league with any of my classmates. They went home to big houses on the water, and I went home to the two bedroom apartment. I begrudgingly admit I received a far better education than the public schools in the area were providing at the time.


As recently as the late 1970's/early 1980's when I was assigned at Mississippi State University as an AFROTC instructor and had frequent dealings with the Columbus AFB command staff, quite a few of the Air Force members were sending their kids to private academies, rather than to Mississippi's public schools. They quality of education(s) was the rationale for that that I always heard stated.


----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> LOL That overcoat looks like it should have been Surité issue.


I like the coat fine, but love the Art Deco illustration!


Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62001


Really cool ad! 👍

Very fine style. This retailer had elaborate ads throughout the early era of Esquire, all very informative as to cut and style of the period.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 62012


I love these type of ads. Just amazing the selection that was out there back then.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I love these type of ads. Just amazing the selection that was out there back then.


They were very nice! 👍

Couldn't find the entire ad, but I believe this is one half of a two page John David ad. Like it for the art work, and for its elaboration of pocket choices and backs.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> They were very nice! 👍
> 
> Couldn't find the entire ad, but I believe this is one half of a two page John David ad. Like it for the art work, and for its elaboration of pocket choices and backs.
> 
> View attachment 62013


What makes this era so nice is there was a basic construct - suit, collard shirt, tie (clearly oversimplifying) - and then creative minds went to work on cut, style, fabric, details, colors, patterns, textures, but all within a holistically consistent construct. Today, it's chaos because there is no construct.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> What makes this era so nice is there was a basic construct - suit, collard shirt, tie (clearly oversimplifying) - and then creative minds went to work on cut, style, fabric, details, colors, patterns, textures, but all within a holistically consistent construct. Today, it's chaos because there is no construct.


You are so right. In my view a well dressed person in the prior century made a first impression by cut and cloth. For a second and more critical look there were myriad details to be appreciated, the most obvious one, and therefore in its own so special category, was the combination of tie, shirt, and jacket. The next might be the selection of shoes, both design and leather. Then there were the minutiae over which we debate.

A person dressed in a suit today would have been deemed a slob in the bank at which I worked in the seventies. My last job was in state government, and we often wore suits to walk across the street and testify at the state legislature. Our emissaries were typically wearing ill-fitting suits with cuffless pants that pooled over unpolished black derbies, obviously no ironing required white shirts, and ties emblazoned with designs featuring things like the state flag or the Tabasco logo. Of course the flag lapel pin was mandatory. That was the high end, and from there we descended through Dockers and ill fitting polos, jeans, trainers, and so on. I actually think wearing a nice pair of sweats might reflect an upward trend!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> What makes this era so nice is there was a basic construct - suit, collard shirt, tie (clearly oversimplifying) - and then creative minds went to work on cut, style, fabric, details, colors, patterns, textures, but all within a holistically consistent construct. Today, it's chaos because there is no construct.





Vecchio Vespa said:


> You are so right. In my view a well dressed person in the prior century made a first impression by cut and cloth. For a second and more critical look there were myriad details to be appreciated, the most obvious one, and therefore in its own so special category, was the combination of tie, shirt, and jacket. The next might be the selection of shoes, both design and leather. Then there were the minutiae over which we debate.
> 
> A person dressed in a suit today would have been deemed a slob in the bank at which I worked in the seventies. My last job was in state government, and we often wore suits to walk across the street and testify at the state legislature. Our emissaries were typically wearing ill-fitting suits with cuffless pants that pooled over unpolished black derbies, obviously no ironing required white shirts, and ties emblazoned with designs featuring things like the state flag or the Tabasco logo. Of course the flag lapel pin was mandatory. That was the high end, and from there we descended through Dockers and ill fitting polos, jeans, trainers, and so on. I actually thing wearing a nice pair of sweats might reflect an upward trend!


An accurate and valuable distinction IMO! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62053


Nice! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Remember Stanley Blacker?

Remember Orlon!?


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Definitely remember Stanley Blacker and think I remember "Orlon," but I read so much about this stuff, that I no longer know sometimes if I'm truly remember something from "back then," or from all the years since when I've read about clothing history.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Remember Stanley Blacker?
> 
> Remember Orlon!?
> 
> View attachment 62081


I have Stanley Blacker jackets, picked up in thrift shops. And yes, I'm old enough to remember Orlon!

The welt or swelled edge around the breast pocket on this particular jacket seems larger in width than those around the lower flap pockets. It's almost as wide as piping. Whether that's an illusion created by the photograph, or simply a style, is hard to tell. But the larger width draws attention to the breast pocket. The deep green is a nice colour.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Remember Stanley Blacker?
> 
> Remember Orlon!?
> 
> View attachment 62081


I'm sure I must have at one time been familiar with Orlon acrylic and Stanly Blacker, but for the life of me I can't recall a thing about either. Could this be a result of the aging process or perhaps just a black hole in the weave of my sartorial knowledge? LOL. :crazy:


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I'm sure I must have at one time been familiar with Orlon acrylic and Stanly Blacker, but for the life of me I can't recall a thing about either. Could this be a result of the aging process or perhaps just a black hole in the weave of my sartorial knowledge? LOL. :crazy:


The aging process does affect our memory. It could also be that gap you refer to as a black hole. The trouble is that it is hard to tell: The information may still be stored in your brain, but accessing it has become difficult or impossible; on the other hand, it may never have been there in the first place! LOL, black holes are dangerous because the phenomenal levels of gravity will pull everything near the black hole into it.

Stanley Blacker was an actual person, and not just a label -- he started in the fifties, and was known as "Mr Sport Coat". Here's an obit from 2000:

https://wwd.com/fashion-news/fashion-features/stanley-blacker-79-mr-sport-coat-1189094/


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Definitely remember Stanley Blacker and think I remember "Orlon," but I read so much about this stuff, that I no longer know sometimes if I'm truly remember something from "back then," or from all the years since when I've read about clothing history.
> 
> View attachment 62083


Cool Mr. Slowboy! 👍



drpeter said:


> I have Stanley Blacker jackets, picked up in thrift shops. And yes, I'm old enough to remember Orlon!
> 
> The welt or swelled edge around the breast pocket on this particular jacket seems larger in width than those around the lower flap pockets. It's almost as wide as piping. Whether that's an illusion created by the photograph, or simply a style, is hard to tell. But the larger width draws attention to the breast pocket. The deep green is a nice colour.


Sharp eyes! It does.



eagle2250 said:


> I'm sure I must have at one time been familiar with Orlon acrylic and Stanly Blacker, but for the life of me I can't recall a thing about either. Could this be a result of the aging process or perhaps just a black hole in the weave of my sartorial knowledge? LOL. :crazy:


Or because at the time you only got to wear Class A's & fatigues!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

I believe I saw a date for this small catalog of 1921, but I can't find it again. As I suspect some know, Charles Macintosh developed the first widely practical rubberized clothing by impregnating cloth with rubber that had been dissolved in coal-tar naptha.

Sometime later Goodyear Rubber exploited Charles Goodyear's invention of vulcanized rubber to use it in a process, which judging by this brochure was similar to Macintosh's, to make a broad line of clothing they describe as "weatherproof."


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Really neat.


----------



## AldenPyle

Feel like Model B would not work today. Is it that the belt is just too wide?


----------



## Flanderian

AldenPyle said:


> Feel like Model B would not work today. Is it that the belt is just too wide?


Interesting point. And I think much of this wouldn't translate to contemporary vernacular.

But I's correct for the period, as this is a take-no-prisoners storm coat, and the belt width is in balance with the large pockets, broad lapels and generous skirt.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Really neat.
> 
> View attachment 62175


Love it! Beautiful illustration. 👍


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 62181


Nice! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62227


Now they can play tennis in private.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62227


He stands directly behind the young beauty, whispering in her left ear..."Let us go to a place more private and I will spank you with that tennis racquet!" LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62227


What a lovely painting! :loveyou:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Very 1930s classic looking men's overcoats. Reminds me of an Edward G. Robinson movie.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Very 1930s classic looking men's overcoats. Reminds me of an Edward G. Robinson movie.
> 
> View attachment 62270


Classic and cool illustration! 

Particularly impressed by how much personality with which he is able to imbue each figure.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Classic and cool illustration!
> 
> Particularly impressed by how much personality with which he is able to imbue each figure.


 I thought so too. I "recognized" those people from my childhood as he captured the type so well.



Flanderian said:


> View attachment 62274


I love this style of BB ads.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I thought so too. I "recognized" those people from my childhood as he captured the type so well.


Same here! Might have seen them at a bus stop downtown. 



Fading Fast said:


> I love this style of BB ads.


Simple, but very effective. For a while in the early '70's I would buy a copy of the WSJ each morning, and the ads being run there were still very similar to these from several decades earlier. Recall seeing and purchasing a raincoat from them that folded into a small package that I used to keep in my desk drawer at work. I saved some clothing upon encountering unexpected downpours before my return walk to the train.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Same here! Might have seen them at a bus stop downtown.
> 
> Simple, but very effective. For a while in the early '70's I would buy a copy of the WSJ each morning, and the ads being run there were still very similar to these from several decades earlier. Recall seeing and purchasing a raincoat from them that folded into a small package that I used to keep in my desk drawer at work. I saved some clothing upon encountering unexpected downpours before my return walk to the train.


I started reading the WSJ in the '80s on a "college subscription" (and have had a subscription ever since).

I don't remember the style of the BB ads form that time, but remember seeing BB ads in the WSJ and thinking how out of reach that world of clothing was for me - a state university college kid with a just-above minimum wage job and no family history with that kind of dress.

Pre-internet, ads in newspapers, which had a lot more copy than today, were a main source of information about stores, etc.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I love this style of BB ads.
[/QUOTE]

I do, too. I miss seeing them in the morning paper each day. I also loved the Lewis and Thos. Saltz ads back then.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62338


Very nice! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 62344


I've worn through more than a few of Hart Schaffner & Mars' suits over the years. HSM and BB were the backbones of my business wardrobe.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> I've worn through more than a few of Hart Schaffner & Mars' suits over the years. HSM and BB were the backbones of my business wardrobe.


HSM served me well too. A long established local store. Salesmen who knew their merchandise, and your size just by looking at you. A tailor who would study the suit you were trying on for about 5 seconds, stretch it a bit here, give it a tug there, then slash it a few times with tailor's chalk before returning to his Marlboro. A few days later you picked it up and the alterations were all performed expertly, and the suit fit perfectly. Included in the purchase price, of course! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62376


A great example of a member of the lesser sex talking his way into trouble. Been there and done that, but not in the most recent 50 years. I was a slow learner, but I did learn. Nuff said! LOL.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62376


He can have both if he wanted to.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Outstanding illustration. The shirt and jacket patterns fight a bit, but still, like outfit a lot overall.


----------



## DCR

Flanderian said:


> HSM served me well too. A long established local store. Salesmen who knew their merchandise, and your size just by looking at you. A tailor who would study the suit you were trying on for about 5 seconds, stretch it a bit here, give it a tug there, then slash it a few times with tailor's chalk before returning to his Marlboro. A few days later you picked it up and the alterations were all performed expertly, and the suit fit perfectly. Included in the purchase price, of course! 👍


Alas that it now so difficult to achieve the same experience, let alone with a mi-USA suit.


----------



## Flanderian

DCR said:


> Alas that it now so difficult to achieve the same experience, let alone with a mi-USA suit.


Gone but not forgotten, that was a half century ago. Even more remarkable is the fact that it wasn't particularly unusual. It was expected.

Never been to O'Connell's in person. Wonder if a visit might offer something similar? Certainly telephone consultations with Ethan suggest they might.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62413


The Stetson Stratoliner has much in common with the Stetson Temple Hat...you can count on looking pretty darned good in either hat design!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62413


Great ad, great illustration! 👍

Multiple themes of interest implicit in this one image.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Button boot, button boot, button boot. 

That's a really nice illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Button boot, button boot, button boot.
> 
> That's a really nice illustration.


Thanks!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Feels very Apparel Arts.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Feels very Apparel Arts.
> 
> View attachment 62439


More wonderful Leyendecker! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ It looks bullet proof.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ It looks bullet proof.
> 
> View attachment 62521


Only A nickel? I'll take 2 for 10 cents.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ It looks bullet proof.
> 
> View attachment 62521


Great illustration and great style! 👍

I've always found that when wearing knit shirts with a sport jacket that the whole composition just looks better with top button of the shirt buttoned, as I seems here. An alternative is to use a neckerchief or ascot to close the neck instead.


----------



## Flanderian

Not so dark knight rising. 

From the incomparable JCL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62572


LOL, as we age, reminiscing about the past becomes an increasingly popular pastime...and on those early trips down memory lane, we could still fit into those uniforms!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62572


What a marvelous illustration! :loveyou:

Sartorially, artistically and content!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Great company, classic duffel coat. I have one of their Monty duffels, in camel with the wooden toggles. Dates back to the fifties, I think. Heavy and perfect for Wisconsin winters. Pairs with everything I have in the sweater and trouser departments, LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Great company, classic duffel coat. I have one of their Monty duffels, in camel with the wooden toggles. Dates back to the fifties, I think. Heavy and perfect for Wisconsin winters. Pairs with everything I have in the sweater and trouser departments, LOL.


We bought one for my girlfriend a few Christmases ago and could not agree more with you - wonderful coat. It's one of the classics that you can still buy today. I love that you have one dating back to the fifties.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62628


A classic! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

The casual side of Trad. Smart sportwear '55 to '65.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Nice, love the coat far left.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nice, love the coat far left.
> 
> View attachment 62667


Riding the dog! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Kid mohair and merino for summer. Swank mid '60's summer wear -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ really good one.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ really good one.
> 
> View attachment 62722


Nice! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ That's a real good illustration. The drape is wonderfully done, very natural, and you can almost "feel" the texture of the material.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Did IRL people (besides Cary Grant and Fred Astaire) ever look that good?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Did IRL people (besides Cary Grant and Fred Astaire) ever look that good?
> 
> View attachment 62838


Great illustration! JCL?

Per above, I think Anthony Eden came close.

On right -










And here on left -










William Powell didn't do badly either -










And Clark Gable too.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great illustration! JCL?
> 
> Per above, I think Anthony Eden came close.
> 
> On right -
> 
> View attachment 62845
> 
> 
> And here on left -
> 
> View attachment 62846
> 
> 
> William Powell didn't do badly either -
> 
> View attachment 62847
> 
> 
> And Clark Gable too.
> 
> View attachment 62848


I don't know, but I thought JCL too.

And you are right, there have been several throughout history who've equalled the illustration ideal.

These guy could go on the list too.









Gary Cooper.








Errol Flynn.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I don't know, but I thought JCL too.
> 
> And you are right, there have been several throughout history who've equalled the illustration ideal.
> 
> These guy could go on the list too.
> 
> View attachment 62849
> 
> Gary Cooper.
> View attachment 62850
> 
> Errol Flynn.


Nobody looked better than Coop! And when I was a kid, I hoped I might grow up to look like Errol Flynn. (But heredity interceded! 😭)


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Nobody looked better than Coop! And when I was a kid, I hoped I might grow up to look like Errol Flynn. (But heredity interceded! 😭)


Growing up in the '70s, I was an old movie fan and thought Errol Flynn was everything you'd want to grow up to look like. He was the Sea Hawk or Robin Hood - what could be cooler? But alas, it was not to be.


----------



## Oldsarge

I was never much of a movie fan so (fortunately) I had no model to try and emulate. And now it's far too late!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62872


Ahh . . . . !
Vintage Brooks! When good was good! :beer:


----------



## Flanderian

When it gets cold again -


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Ahh . . . . !
> Vintage Brooks! When good was good! :beer:


Agreed, it might be form the '80s as I think I remember that style of BB catalogue from that era.



Flanderian said:


> When it gets cold again -
> 
> View attachment 62879


A nice illustration.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62980


Do tailors still do that?


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> Do tailors still do that?


She is not a tailor, at least beyond the walls of the nest, but Mrs eagle still does what we see in the illustration. I assume professional tailors do it as well.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62980


A pro! 👍



Howard said:


> Do tailors still do that?


Only good ones.



eagle2250 said:


> She is not a tailor, at least beyond the walls of the nest, but Mrs eagle still does what we see in the illustration. I assume professional tailors do it as well.


A rare gem! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

A photo rather than illustration, but too nice not to share. Circa 1928 -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Hollywood in the '20s and '30s took glamour to the ne plus ultra.

Staying with @Flanderian's theme of Classic Hollywood glamour, check out these pics from the 1927 silent movie "Spring Fever." Can't you just see the Ralph Lauren design team pouring over these for ideas.
















And a few good "clothing" movie poster illustration form the '20s:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Hollywood in the '20s and '30s took glamour to the ne plus ultra.
> 
> Staying with @Flanderian's theme of Classic Hollywood glamour, check out these pics from the 1927 silent movie "Spring Fever." Can't you just see the Ralph Lauren design team pouring over these for ideas.
> View attachment 63051
> View attachment 63052
> 
> 
> And a few good "clothing" movie poster illustration form the '20s:
> View attachment 63054
> View attachment 63055


Exceptional!

All of them. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63114


I like it, but am uncertain what the illustrator is trying to convey. Smartly dressed, or fashion victim? Perhaps I fall into the later category in terms of my general admiration for much of what Polo has put out, but I want to take that silly hat and stomp on it. Smart, or too brand obsessed by half? . . . . :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I like it, but am uncertain what the illustrator is trying to convey. Smartly dressed, or fashion victim? Perhaps I fall into the later category in terms of my general admiration for much of what Polo has put out, but I want to take that silly hat and stomp on it. Smart, or too brand obsessed by half? . . . . :icon_scratch:


I'm pretty much with you. It even seems that the baseball cap with a suit or sport coat and tie thing has become less common (thankfully). I like the illustration from an artistic point of view. It's got a fun expression to it.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm pretty much with you. It even seems that the baseball cap with a suit or sport coat and tie thing has become less common (thankfully). I like the illustration from an artistic point of view. It's got a fun expression to it.


Agree, lovely illustration!

I have an instant and violent reaction to logo embellished clothing, and Polo is among the most egregious.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63143


Aww . . . !


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I'd buy both of those items today. I bought a similar raglan last year and posted about it somewhere at the time, so now I'd like that suit and cut just that way. That suit is insane.

I'm too lazy to find my pics of the coat I bought, but here it is from Magee:

https://www.magee1866.com/en/Black-...Tweed-Corrib-Quilted-Raglan-Coat/m-12386.aspx


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I'd buy both of those items today. I bought a similar raglan last year and posted about it somewhere at the time, so now I'd like that suit and cut just that way. That suit is insane.
> 
> I'm too lazy to find my pics of the coat I bought, but here it is from Magee:
> 
> https://www.magee1866.com/en/Black-...Tweed-Corrib-Quilted-Raglan-Coat/m-12386.aspx
> View attachment 63179


An incredibly handsome and wearable coat design. Count me as impressed.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> An incredibly handsome and wearable coat design. Count me as impressed.


Thank you. I love it. I buy almost no clothes anymore as WFH and our casual world has left me with more "nice" clothes than I need, but I've wanted a classic raglan-sleeved Tweed overcoat like this for a long time. It is just about the only clothing item I've bought in the past couple of years.


----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 63117


Capitalist styling!


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63180


A bellhop and spats? Man, that's an old one.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> A bellhop and spats? Man, that's an old one.


Agreed, '20s or early '30s is my guess.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I'd buy both of those items today. I bought a similar raglan last year and posted about it somewhere at the time, so now I'd like that suit and cut just that way. That suit is insane.
> 
> I'm too lazy to find my pics of the coat I bought, but here it is from Magee:
> 
> https://www.magee1866.com/en/Black-...Tweed-Corrib-Quilted-Raglan-Coat/m-12386.aspx
> View attachment 63179


Wonderful tweed raglan shoulder coat!



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63180


----------



## Flanderian

The young men wear grey suits, the boss what suits his whimsy! -


----------



## Flanderian

When America made shoes!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> When America made shoes!
> 
> View attachment 63234


Those are some nice shoes.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> The young men wear grey suits, the boss what suits his whimsy! -
> 
> View attachment 63185


In the bank where I worked either it was the other way around or Ben Love, the CEO, found grey Oxxford suits whimsical.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> When America made shoes!
> 
> View attachment 63234


My last pair of Spectators went to our grandson, passed on to him on the occasion of his high school graduation. Both our grandsons seem to have a taste for fine footwear...perhaps it's genetic. LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63237


Great illustration and style!



Howard said:


> Those are some nice shoes.


Think so too, Howard. 👍



Vecchio Vespa said:


> In the bank where I worked either it was the other way around or Ben Love, the CEO, found grey Oxxford suits whimsical.


😁 😁 😁



eagle2250 said:


> My last pair of Spectators went to our grandson, passed on to him on the occasion of his high school graduation. Both our grandsons seem to have a taste for fine footwear...perhaps it's genetic. LOL.


As well it should!

Good job, grandpa! 👌

👍


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63352


How would you describe those stripes? Otherwise, nice rig!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63352


Great rig! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Great rig! 👍


Any thoughts on @eagle2250 's question about the "stripes" in the pattern?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Any thoughts on @eagle2250 's question about the "stripes" in the pattern?


I'd describe them as nice! 

Cloth looks as if it may be tweed, and both tweed and Saxony from the period was often woven with contrast/complimentary textures, patterns or colors. Beyond that, I know not, Thought the terms shadow stripes and sandwich stripes are floating around in the muddle I call my mind. :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I'd describe them as nice!
> 
> Cloth looks as if it may be tweed, and both tweed and Saxony from the period was often woven with contrast/complimentary textures, patterns or colors. Beyond that, I know not, Thought the terms shadow stripes and sandwich stripes are floating around in the muddle I call my mind. :crazy:


Like you, I think they have a name - and what you suggest could be right, but nothing is pinging in.

In the '80s and '90s, the salesmen in the good mens stores all knew those names, which was basically how I first learned them (before I later forgot them).

Pre Internet, it was those salesmen (and the occasional book) who taught you all this stuff. It's a shame most of those guys, heck, most of that world is all but gone.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Awesome pic. It echoes the sweater ads we see from the same era.









Feels Apparel Arts to me.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 63391


The Queen Bee and her posse! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Not a fan of the clothing style, but a heck of a fun illustration.


----------



## drpeter

It's striking how different the trousers are in the two pictures above posted by FF and Flanderian. The billowing summer slacks in the first picture are at one extreme and the tight Edwardian suit pants in the second image are at the other! It's also worth noting that two of the suits in the second picture look almost like those made in today's style -- the only difference is in the length of the jacket.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Not a fan of the clothing style, but a heck of a fun illustration.
> 
> View attachment 63429


The styling exhibited may be fatally dated, but those prices are "to die for." $17.95 for a cashmere suit(!)? These days we must pay way more than that for just our underwear or a pair of socks! Those must have been the good old days? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The styling exhibited may be fatally dated, but those prices are "to die for." $17.95 for a cashmere suit(!)? These days we must pay way more than that for just our underwear or a pair of socks! Those must have been the good old days? LOL.


A two-minute Google search (so I'm sure it's only vaguely accurate) shows that the average annual salary in 2021 is ~$51,000 and in 1925 (probably the decade of that ad) it was ~$3200. Now, if we could keep our current salaries and shop in 1925, we'd really have something.


----------



## drpeter

Another Google search will tell us that $1.00 in 1925 is the equivalent of $15.60 today when adjusted for inflation. So the cost of the suit in 1925, $17.95, translates to $280.02 today. A pretty nice value, I guess.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Not a fan of the clothing style, but a heck of a fun illustration.
> 
> View attachment 63429


👍 👍 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Nice.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nice.
> 
> View attachment 63445


Cool, but put socks on some of those boys! Never would have happened to have a man dressed for business or class without socks.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 63464


One rarely sees smoking jackets advertised these days. I have seen one or two such jackets during my last few years of thrifting. Perhaps there are more available in the thrift shops in larger cities.

The smoking jacket is associated in my mind with a kind of formal informality, paradoxical as it may seem! It's the jacket you slip into after a formal black-tie evening, when you are relaxing with cigars and port in the library or billiard room. There may be other uses for this jacket as well. In some versions, where the jacket is almost knee-length and has a loosely tucked belt, it looks very much like a dressing gown. Sometimes this was called a smoking peignoir!

The cloths (often brocade or other ornamental fabrics) used in smoking jackets are also interesting because of their rich colours and textures. Often an Eastern influence or even origins (India, Persia) can be seen in the materials and designs. They add an extra dimension to the plainer, darker elements of evening wear. It is almost as though one is putting down the formality of the evening for a more relaxed, casual look. It might be worth looking into the history of the smoking jacket. And we would do well to start with Bruce Boyer:

https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/return-of-the-smoking-jacket-7364
Thanks for posting these images, Flanderian.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63474


Good looking rig, but that buffalo plaid is an unusual choice of neck wear for that rig. Ah well, to each his/her own.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63474


Me in my dreams 40 years ago!

👍


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> One rarely sees smoking jackets advertised these days. I have seen one or two such jackets during my last few years of thrifting. Perhaps there are more available in the thrift shops in larger cities.
> 
> The smoking jacket is associated in my mind with a kind of formal informality, paradoxical as it may seem! It's the jacket you slip into after a formal black-tie evening, when you are relaxing with cigars and port in the library or billiard room. There may be other uses for this jacket as well. In some versions, where the jacket is almost knee-length and has a loosely tucked belt, it looks very much like a dressing gown. Sometimes this was called a smoking peignoir!
> 
> The cloths (often brocade or other ornamental fabrics) used in smoking jackets are also interesting because of their rich colours and textures. Often an Eastern influence or even origins (India, Persia) can be seen in the materials and designs. They add an extra dimension to the plainer, darker elements of evening wear. It is almost as though one is putting down the formality of the evening for a more relaxed, casual look. It might be worth looking into the history of the smoking jacket. And we would do well to start with Bruce Boyer:
> 
> https://www.cigaraficionado.com/article/return-of-the-smoking-jacket-7364
> Thanks for posting these images, Flanderian.


👍 👍 👍

"when you are relaxing with cigars and port in the library or billiard room."

And while relaxing in PJ's with a bag of Cheetos and a diet coke while watching re-runs of _The Honey Mooners_? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> 👍 👍 👍
> 
> "when you are relaxing with cigars and port in the library or billiard room."
> 
> And while relaxing in PJ's with a bag of Cheetos and a diet coke while watching re-runs of _The Honey Mooners_? :icon_scratch:


That too, yes. After all, a smoking jacket is not that far removed from a dressing gown. The latter is often my outer garment of choice (over a T shirt and sleeping shorts) as I watch old films...


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> That too, yes. After all, a smoking jacket is not that far removed from a dressing gown. The latter is often my outer garment of choice (over a T shirt and sleeping shorts) as I watch old films...


I've long wanted a dressing gown, or two, but all I have are bathrobes. 

But seriously, I have. Paul Stuart has had some marvelous examples in older catalogs. One I recall is cashmere with silk satin lining and piping. :loveyou:

Should I feel a bit more ambitious I might try to contrive to scan a couple and post them. I'm fussy about scans, but don't wish to dismantle my catalogs!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> I might try to contrive to scan a couple and post them


Quite a bit of hesitancy there...LOL


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Quite a bit of hesitancy there...LOL


Hesitant?

Yes, depending upon the catalog. What vintage Paul Stuart catalogs I've been able to retain are a source of sartorial nourishment, and I wish to preserve them in fair condition. PS catalogs were once almost cost-no-object creations of extremely talented photographers, graphic artists and printers. At least half of mine are bound like a book rather than simply being a double page printed, folded in half and stapled. And as my scanner is a flat bed scanner, it just does not do to try and flatten a page of any such catalog, and curled up on the scanner it yields an image not worthy of the original.

As it happens, the particular robes I had in mind are from their fall/winter1997 catalog which is printed on a single sheet and folded, making it more feasible for me to scan.

The robes on the left and center are both cashmere/wool blends with silk satin linings and piping in two colorways, camel and navy. The checked robe on the right is unlined and of lambswool.


----------



## Flanderian

Out sporting!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63516


👍 👍 👍


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Out sporting!
> 
> View attachment 63524


Really nice. Feels Esquire/Apparel Arts (I think I might even remember it).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63546


Looks like a Pendleton Topster. Somewhere in the hoard I have a Topster that looks very similar to the one pictured. On campus, back in the day, it would have fit right in.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Looks like a Pendleton Topster. Somewhere in the hoard I have a Topster that looks very similar to the one pictured. On campus, back in the day, it would have fit right in.


I had an unclear memory that you had one and thought of that when I saw this pic.

On somedays it's about the clothes, but today's pic just hit me in a "there really was a time college kids dressed like that" way.

By the time I went to collage in the '80s, it was all jeans, t-shirts, sweatshirts, etc., especially at the state university, Rutgers, I went to. But it was set on a classic Ivy-looking (it's not an Ivy school) campus - stone buildings from the early 1900s, big leafy quads, etc., but no one was dressing like "Take Ivy" sadly.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63546


👍👍👍



eagle2250 said:


> Looks like a Pendleton Topster. Somewhere in the hoard I have a Topster that looks very similar to the one pictured. On campus, back in the day, it would have fit right in.


:teacha: 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Nice. Love the cut and drape of the suit.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nice. Love the cut and drape of the suit.
> 
> View attachment 63620


Shouldn't the tie be inside his coat?


----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> Shouldn't the tie be inside his coat?


It might be that the angle formed by the bottom ends of the lapels makes it look as though the tie has popped outside. The tie may still be inside the coat.


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> Shouldn't the tie be inside his coat?





drpeter said:


> It might be that the angle formed by the bottom ends of the lapels makes it look as though the tie has popped outside. The tie may still be inside the coat.


Howard, I think @drpeter is correct in his observation of this illustration.

Also, there was a time in the '30s and '40s when many men's ties were often worn much shorter, but from what I've read that was because they would either be tucked under a vest or "inside" the suit jacket or sport coat as it was expected to always be buttoned. Hence, the "short-ness" of the tie would never show.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nice. Love the cut and drape of the suit.
> 
> View attachment 63620


A handsome suit and an attractive lady in blue, whose eyes seem to be saying..."There is nothing for you to see here; keep your eyes to yourself, numb nuts!" LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nice. Love the cut and drape of the suit.
> 
> View attachment 63620


Beautiful illustration! :loveyou:

The mode looks roughly mid '50's.

Mine somewhere between the late '50's, mid-'60's. The apotheosis of modernist minimalism in men's dress. Everybody wanted to look like this guy. Though of course it helped a lot if you were built like this guy. On interior linemen it had a somewhat different effect. :icon_jokercolor:



Howard said:


> Shouldn't the tie be inside his coat?


Uh-uh!!!
And you wanted rhinestone chips! :happy:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Very '60s cool.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Very '60s cool.
> 
> View attachment 63781


The guy on the right, wearing the blue suit, looks a bit like Florida's misguided Governor. Although, I don't think I've ever seen him wearing a hat.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> The guy on the right, wearing the blue suit, looks a bit like Florida's misguided Governor. Although, I don't think I've ever seen him wearing a hat.


LOL, Eagle, he's just holding the hat, not really wearing it. Perhaps that is a metaphor indicative of the FL governor's general style?


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> The guy on the right, wearing the blue suit, looks a bit like Florida's misguided Governor. Although, I don't think I've ever seen him wearing a hat.





drpeter said:


> LOL, Eagle, he's just holding the hat, not really wearing it. Perhaps that is a metaphor indicative of the FL governor's general style?


Why are some of the folks in the car cringing and leaning away from this guy?


----------



## Flanderian

Wonder what's on his mind?


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Wonder what's on his mind?
> 
> View attachment 63800


Maybe he's thinking that he'll get some.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Wonder what's on his mind?
> 
> View attachment 63800





Howard said:


> Maybe he's thinking that he'll get some.


Who knows what is in the hearts(and minds) of men? Well, it's been said that the shadow knows. LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Maybe he's thinking that he'll get some.


Or . . . . "[email protected], why do I have to run to the bathroom again *now*!"


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Or . . . . "[email protected], why do I have to run to the bathroom again *now*!"


I think he is wondering if a Unified Field Theory in physics is closer to his grasp -- Strong Interactions, Weak Interactions, Electromagnetism and -- the holy grail -- Gravity!


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## FiscalDean

Flanderian said:


> Wonder what's on his mind?
> 
> View attachment 63800


I wonder what's on her mind!


----------



## Flanderian

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 63815


Magnificent ad art! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Flanderian

FiscalDean said:


> I wonder what's on her mind!


You wonder!?

"How much has this old geezer got?"

:icon_saint7kg:


----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian said:


> You wonder!?
> 
> "How much has this old geezer got?"
> 
> :icon_saint7kg:


And how much of it can* I *get?


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Or . . . . "[email protected], why do I have to run to the bathroom again *now*!"


I wonder what shes thinking?


----------



## Howard

Oldsarge said:


> And how much of it can* I *get?


For the amount of money that I have.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63839
> View attachment 63840


Those illustrations posted side by side provide pictorial proof that having kids can be hard on one's figure. Note the trim 34" waistlines featured in the illustration on the left and then take a look at the gentleman's waistline in the illustration on the right. Now tell me that handsome youg led perched on Dad's shoulders doesn't add at least 15 pounds and two inches to Dad's waist! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Those illustrations posted side by side provide pictorial proof that having kids can be hard on one's figure. Note the trim 34" waistlines featured in the illustration on the left and then take a look at the gentleman's waistline in the illustration on the right. Now tell me that handsome youg led perched on Dad's shoulders doesn't add at least 15 pounds and two inches to Dad's waist! LOL.


Yeah, it's the pregnancy.


----------



## Flanderian

A lot of ground to cover in "Clothing Illustrations From or Inspired by the 20s to the 60s."

Here's one that I like very well. I usually snicker at designer labeled clothing as typically being unappealing for a number of reasons which can be summarized as not looking very good, and being priced for people who like to buy names rather than clothes. But I like this very well for what it is, and what is is a faithful interpretation of the aesthetic of 1930's - '40's Italian bespoke.

Valentino, from a much maligned era including this example from '82.


----------



## Flanderian

Recreation of vintage cloth by Fox Brothers. Over-size glen check in fox brown and ecru made of very special 100% Merino made as 25 ounce coating. Here made into a Balmacaan collared, Raglan shouldered, belted overcoat. (Yes. too busy with shirt and tie, so wear it with something simpler! :icon_saint7kg


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> A lot of ground to cover in "Clothing Illustrations From or Inspired by the 20s to the 60s."
> 
> Here's one that I like very well. I usually snicker at designer labeled clothing as typically being unappealing for a number of reasons which can be summarized as not looking very good, and being priced for people who like to buy names rather than clothes. But I like this very well for what it is, and what is is a faithful interpretation of the aesthetic of 1930's - '40's Italian bespoke.
> 
> Valentino, from a much maligned era including this example from '82.
> 
> View attachment 63844


I can only say I like the three piece suit, but I would love to call that overcoat my very own! I can't help but wonder why he is holding, rather than wearing his hat?


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Recreation of vintage cloth by Fox Brothers. Over-size glen check in fox brown and ecru made of very special 100% Merino made as 25 ounce coating. Here made into a Balmacaan collared, Ragland shouldered, belted overcoat. (Yes. too busy with shirt and tie, so wear it with something simpler! :icon_saint7kg
> 
> View attachment 63847


I got this from Fox in my email this morning! Very nice cloth, and a lovely overcoat.


----------



## Flanderian

Flanderian said:


> A lot of ground to cover in "Clothing Illustrations From or Inspired by the 20s to the 60s."
> 
> Here's one that I like very well. I usually snicker at designer labeled clothing as typically being unappealing for a number of reasons which can be summarized as not looking very good, and being priced for people who like to buy names rather than clothes. But I like this very well for what it is, and what is is a faithful interpretation of the aesthetic of 1930's - '40's Italian bespoke.
> 
> Valentino, from a much maligned era including this example from '82.
> 
> View attachment 63844


Going indoors, had to remove his cover!


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> I got this from Fox in my email this morning! Very nice cloth, and a lovely overcoat.


Me too, and I agree.

I enjoy mixing patterns, and while this isn't awful, my problem is solely with the scale of the stripe. I'm fine with the tie.

Change that Bengal stripe to a closely spaced hairline, and it would bring harmony to the universe! :icon_saint7kg:

Pity there's such a dearth of colors and patterns among RTW shirtings anymore. The hairline stripe is one of the nicest and most versatile. Reads as a solid from more than a few feet away, while still bringing a lot more interest to other patterns than a solid would.

Also miss the once common end-on-end weave broadcloths.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Recreation of vintage cloth by Fox Brothers. Over-size glen check in fox brown and ecru made of very special 100% Merino made as 25 ounce coating. Here made into a Balmacaan collared, Raglan shouldered, belted overcoat. (Yes. too busy with shirt and tie, so wear it with something simpler! :icon_saint7kg
> 
> View attachment 63847





Flanderian said:


> A lot of ground to cover in "Clothing Illustrations From or Inspired by the 20s to the 60s."
> 
> Here's one that I like very well. I usually snicker at designer labeled clothing as typically being unappealing for a number of reasons which can be summarized as not looking very good, and being priced for people who like to buy names rather than clothes. But I like this very well for what it is, and what is is a faithful interpretation of the aesthetic of 1930's - '40's Italian bespoke.
> 
> Valentino, from a much maligned era including this example from '82.
> 
> View attachment 63844


A couple of pretty impressive overcoats above. The glen check is a cool "statement" coat, not a coat for me personally, but I love seeing it. The other one, the pale grey bold herringbone slung over the guy's arm is what I'm all about (if I hadn't banned myself from buying overcoats for myself for at least the next five years).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63856


Reminds me of the "What the hell is that?" Improv on SNL ages ago.

Edited to add link.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> A couple of pretty impressive overcoats above. The glen check is a cool "statement" coat, not a coat for me personally, but I love seeing it. The other one, the pale grey bold herringbone slung over the guy's arm is what I'm all about (if I hadn't banned myself from buying overcoats for myself for at least the next five years).


Agreed. As a man with a smaller build (5'-7", 155 lbs) a large check like the one in the overcoat would make me disappear completely, LOL. But if a bigger man wears it, I also agree with Flanderian that its boldness should be offset by very plain, quiet shirting and a discreet, monochrome tie, say, a grenadine of darker hue. As it is, the ensemble in the picture is far too noisy and makes the human being seem disordered. And do look at his expression -- he is most certainly looking glum.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63856


I think they are looking at a momentous event in human history. The aliens from Alpha Centauri are finally landing in full view, thereby putting to rest any lingering doubts about the existence of other intelligent life forms in the universe. And they are dressed by HS&M! The humans, that is, not the aliens. Now that's really cool.

https://www.technologyreview.com/20...ng-sign-habitable-zone-planet-alpha-centauri/


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> A couple of pretty impressive overcoats above. The glen check is a cool "statement" coat, not a coat for me personally, but I love seeing it. The other one, the pale grey bold herringbone slung over the guy's arm is what I'm all about (if I hadn't banned myself from buying overcoats for myself for at least the next five years).


Ah, ya' know ya' want it! :icon_saint7kg:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63856


Cool! 

Very WWI.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Agreed. As a man with a smaller build (5'-7", 155 lbs) a large check like the one in the overcoat would make me disappear completely, LOL. But if a bigger man wears it, I also agree with Flanderian that its boldness should be offset by very plain, quiet shirting and a discreet, monochrome tie, say, a grenadine of darker hue. As it is, the ensemble in the picture is far too noisy and makes the human being seem disordered. And do look at his expression -- he is most certainly looking glum.


I'm sure you're correct and know what suits you best, but it's worth noting that oversized patterns of this sort were first popularized by the then Prince of Wales, later Edward VIII and subsequently Duke of Windsor, a man of similar proportion.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> I'm sure you're correct and know what suits you best, but it's worth noting that oversized patterns of this sort were first popularized by the then Prince of Wales, later Edward VIII and subsequently Duke of Windsor, a man of similar proportion.


Indeed, I know that well, and I also know that he was especially adept at combining multiple patterns. However, LOL, there aren't many of us in this world with the sartorial skills and acumen of the late Duke (and erstwhile King Edward VIII).


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Indeed, I know that well, and I also know that he was especially adept at combining multiple patterns. However, LOL, there aren't many of us in this world with the sartorial skills and acumen of the late Duke (and erstwhile King Edward VIII).


👍 👍 👍


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 63868


I am most impressed with the back of the grey suit coat, worn by the man facing away from us and sitting on the bench. That is the way to craft a jacket that works with the wearer.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> I am most impressed with the back of the grey suit coat, worn by the man facing away from us and sitting on the bench. That is the way to craft a jacket that works with the wearer.


Agreed! 👍

And apparently a common option for sporting tailored clothing of the era.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I am most impressed with the back of the grey suit coat, worn by the man facing away from us and sitting on the bench. That is the way to craft a jacket that works with the wearer.


It is very much like the Norfolk jacket. The half-belt at the back tends to draw in the waist a bit and gives shape to the back of the jacket. This style is in contrast to the sack cut where there is less shaping of any kind in the torso.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63870


If one were to unbutton the top buttons of those suit coats, those rigs would fit right in being worn to this day! Real style lasts...seemingly...forever. Nice rigs!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63870


Handsome classics from the '30's! 👍

Nice art work too.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ It's a shame that after almost a hundred years, we might be losing the classic suit-shirt-tie construct as the basic clothing palette for men.


----------



## drpeter

Isn't it interesting that in science-fiction films about the future, one rarely sees men wearing the standard suit-shirt-tie ensemble? Our ideas about future dressing for males appear to involve some sort of closed-collar or round-necked tunic paired with trousers. Perhaps these films herald the demise of the suit (or its transformation) in the future.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ It's a shame that after almost a hundred years, we might be losing the classic suit-shirt-tie construct as the basic clothing palette for men.
> 
> View attachment 63988


Great illustration from a master. Sad indeed.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 63993


A $5 felt fedora? That is clearly a very vintage ad!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> A $5 felt fedora? That is clearly a very vintage ad!


A fedora today costs more than 5 dollars.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64002


Either the topcoat is too big or the trousers are too tight, LOL. Perhaps it is the just the angle used by the artist.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Either the topcoat is too big or the trousers are too tight, LOL. Perhaps it is the just the angle used by the artist.


I noticed that too. The pants look really skinny. My guess is a bit of the issue is the artist's limitation.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64002


Anthony Eden? 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> A fedora today costs more than 5 dollars.


That depends.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Looks like an Esquire or Esquire-quality illustration.


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> That depends.
> 
> View attachment 64005


You can buy hats at the dollar store too.


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> You can buy hats at the dollar store too.


You bettcha! irate:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Looks like an Esquire or Esquire-quality illustration.
> 
> View attachment 64021


Great illustration of great clothes. Though originally introduced by Brooks as a more modestly priced line, who wouldn't want clothes that look this great? :loveyou:


----------



## Flanderian

Very '50's -


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> You bettcha! irate:


Dollar Stores have been the place to go for most people.


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Dollar Stores have been the place to go for most people.


Dollar stores 'R cool!


----------



## Fading Fast

Might be a dupe as it "feels" familiar, but on the chance it isn't, it's too good to pass up.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64032
> 
> Might be a dupe as it "feels" familiar, but on the chance it isn't, it's too good to pass up.


Delightful! 👍

Early JCL, I think.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ looks like it's one of my favorite collars: a rounded-end collar (club?) with eyelets cut in so that a "bar" can pass through and be secured with "screwed ends" to work like collar bar, but much more secure.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ looks like it's one of my favorite collars: a rounded-end collar (club?) with eyelets cut in so that a "bar" can pass through and be secured with "screwed ends" to work like collar bar, but much more secure.


Absolutely! I was wearing collars like this in the early '60's (Which incidentally have* nothing* to do with *T**h**e* *'**6**0**'**s.*) The most common ends for the screw on bars were ball, or a cube. Though I always thought the cube coolest. (Uncool guys had gems in theirs. 👎)


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Absolutely! I was wearing collars like this in the early '60's (Which incidentally have* nothing* to do with *T**h**e* *'**6**0**'**s.*) The most common ends for the screw on bars were ball, or a cube. Though I always thought the cube coolest. (Uncool guys had gems in theirs. 👎)


I have both the cube and ball kind, sitting unused like most of my wonderful classic attire and accouterments. But it is one of my favorite "nuanced" item from the era. Thankfully, I don't remember ever seeing one with gems.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 64038


An interesting illustration with more than just a bit of mystery built into it He is impeccably dressed, so much so that he has secured the undivided attention of the cute and perky girl next door, but what is that contraption his left hand is glomed onto? Some sort of signaling device, perhaps? .


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64043
> View attachment 64044


Delightfully droll, as always! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> An interesting illustration with more than just a bit of mystery built into it He is impeccably dressed, so much so that he has secured the undivided attention of the cute and perky girl next door, but what is that contraption his left hand is glomed onto? Some sort of signaling device, perhaps? .


Good question!

I paid no attention to it until you drew my attention, believing it a just random object the subject had grasped to steady himself after too many highballs. Surveying it more closely, I note a shelf below the apparatus at the top, suggesting it might be a display of some sort? I do remember similar looking devices with horizontal grooves into which plastic letters could be slotted to convey varying messages.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 64057


Given the reaction of the females in that crowd, clearly, I've got to get me one of those suits LOL.


----------



## Oviatt

eagle2250 said:


> Given the reaction of the females in that crowd, clearly, I've got to get me one of those suits LOL.


The look on the other man's face is priceless, too.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## semil

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64078


I would like the trousers for $3.50 and up.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64078


Cool clothes, literally and figuratively! 

And very nice illustration.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64123


Great threads, but the walking stick is the crowning feature of that illustration to my eyes. As I age, I find myself developing a growing appreciation for such accessories!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64123


Nice! 👍

Early JCL I believe?


----------



## Flanderian

Early '60's business class I believe.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Nice! 👍
> 
> Early JCL I believe?


Looks like him to me, but it didn't say.



Flanderian said:


> View attachment 64128
> 
> 
> Early '60's business class I believe.


Handsome suit. What do you think the "red" running through the material is - some sort of contrast nubby silk thread?


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 64081


I wonder what the guys are talking about?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Looks like him to me, but it didn't say.
> 
> Handsome suit. What do you think the "red" running through the material is - some sort of contrast nubby silk thread?


Sharp eyes!

I didn't even notice it, and when you drew my attention to it, I thought at first it was just shading. But observing it more closely, it does look like some form of slub, or other colored thread woven into the cloth.

If so, it removes it from business class of the period, and deposits it with a rim-shot in Dean Martin in Vegas class.

irate:


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> I wonder what the guys are talking about?


They're examining the new innovation of balloon tires. :teacha:


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> They're examining the new innovation of balloon tires. :teacha:


I think the chap on the left is talking about the size of the fish he caught over the weekend.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64145


Looks like a scene from a play by Eugene O'Neill. _Long Day's Journey Into Night, _perhaps?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Looks like a scene from a play by Eugene O'Neill. _Long Day's Journey Into Night, _perhaps?


The artist is Kenton Nelson.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64145


Looks like a long night at work....'The Midnight Stretch!'


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Looks like a long night at work....'The Midnight Stretch!'


Or maybe they've finished dinner.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> The artist is Kenton Nelson.


I looked him up. Yes, I seem to remember seeing some of his work in various places, but I did not know the name of the artist at the time. I like his style, a kind of "wistful realism", if that's the right way of putting it. Vibrant colours, certainly. I feel there is a faint resemblance to some of the work of Max Beckmann, one of my favourite painters, although the latter is far more abstract and less realist in style.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64145


Been there, done that! 😢

Looks like the 4AM one-hour interlude in Amsterdam's bar hours when they close to clean up.


----------



## Flanderian

A boyhood sartorial icon of mine was Charlie Chan's #1 son, portrayed by Chinese American actor Keye Luke. Always immaculately dressed in sharply tailored suits and jackets he was such a noticeable departure from Warner Oland's more dowdy Charlie Chan.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Old movies are an incredible source of sartorial history and, yes, that's a well-dressed young man.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> A boyhood sartorial icon of mine was Charlie Chan's #1 son, portrayed by Chinese American actor Keye Luke. Always immaculately dressed in sharply tailored suits and jackets he was such a noticeable departure from Warner Oland's more dowdy Charlie Chan.
> 
> View attachment 64153
> 
> 
> View attachment 64154


My Father likes Charlie Chan films.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Old movies are an incredible source of sartorial history and, yes, that's a well-dressed young man.


My parents got a TV around '51 or '52. The films that got shown after school or on weekends were mostly from the '30's. No doubt a formative factor in my obsession! 

A lot were very stylish, not to mention well written and acted with characters interesting enough to even entertain a little boy's mind.



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64270


This is really cool! Love it.


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> My Father likes Charlie Chan films.


Howard, your dad is obviously a gentleman of discernment! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> My parents got a TV around '51 or '52. The films that got shown after school, or on weekends were mostly from the '30's. No doubt a formative factor in my obsession!
> 
> A lot were very stylish, not to mention well written and acted with character's interesting enough to even entertain a little boy's mind.


Growing up in the '70s, I developed a love of movies from the '30s-'60s watching them on my grandmother's 1960s B&W which we got after she passed. Something about the style, the era, all of it appealed to me even as a kid and I've been a fan of those movies and that style ever since.



Flanderian said:


> This is really cool! Love it.


I love the suit-shirt-tie combo on the gentleman sitting.



Flanderian said:


> View attachment 64284


Wonderful ad. The "top" shoe is odd but neat to see.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64329


Well, at least I still have legs half that long! 

When Abraham Lincoln was asked by a journalist how long a man's legs should be, the reported response was, "Long enough to reach the ground!"

:happy:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

That looks like a threesome in the making....


----------



## FiscalDean

Oviatt said:


> That looks like a threesome in the making....


OH MY, my mind may have gone there if there were two ladies and one man!


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 64340


An illustrated big city version of the fictional Mike Brady, perchance?


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> That looks like a threesome in the making....


Uh . . . 

*NO!*


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

FiscalDean said:


> OH MY, my mind may have gone there if there were two ladies and one man!


same here, Fiscal.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64394


Cool!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Staying ⇩ with the theme ⇧


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Staying ⇩ with the theme ⇧
> View attachment 64450


Ah, ha, a JCL fest! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## lmi

From an uncle's sketchboard; he did illustrations back in the day for the mail catalogue







of the Hyde Park Toggery in Cincinnati Ohio.


----------



## Flanderian

lmi said:


> From an uncle's sketchboard; he did illustrations back in the day for the mail catalogue
> View attachment 64462
> of the Hyde Park Toggery in Cincinnati Ohio.


Nice! Thank you. 👍

Edit: I have a niece, sister and uncle, all of whom are or were talented commercial artists. Unfortunately when the Talent Angel got to me, all that was left was the booby prize. :icon_jokercolor:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

lmi said:


> From an uncle's sketchboard; he did illustrations back in the day for the mail catalogue
> View attachment 64466
> of the Hyde Park Toggery in Cincinnati Ohio.


Your uncle was very talented. Thanks for sharing this with us.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64464


Ahhh . . . Schlitz! I remember it fondly. 🤢

Great illustration! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I could wear (and have worn) his outfit almost exactly as it is. A muted tone-on-tone (grey) is the only way I've bought a suit with that much pattern and then I'd pair it quietly with a white shirt and simple striped blue tie. But I'd wear cordovan or black shoes, which would be the only difference.


----------



## Oldsarge

Flanderian said:


> Ahhh . . . Schlitz! I remember it fondly. 🤢
> 
> Great illustration! 👍


Hamm's Continental was the first domestic beer I really liked. Then came Sam Adams Winter Lager! I was really happy with them until Uncle decided my services were needed in the FROG. What a revelation.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64509


The fictional characters Laverne and Shirley might argue that it was the (just as fictional) Shotz Beer that made Milwaukee famous. LOL


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 64499


He probably wants a massage.


----------



## lmi

eagle2250 said:


> Your uncle was very talented. Thanks for sharing this with us.


Thank you. he was known for his larger city and land-scapes and commissioned portraiture, and then also did the commercial work, including several years of the covers of the Proctor & Gamble annual reports. Interestingly with these on the sketchboard are the miniature scale, 1 to 3 inches, which is an art in itself. And his sweet and heartfelt nature that comes through; it really evokes the sentiment of that time imo, the romance and style of the bygone era. The focus on the lost art of intimate dancing. I especially like the one where the couple are hiding their gifts for one another and he is caressing her chin for a better look, and she's clearly enjoying it. And humorously, the fellow in the easy chair with impossibly long legs! Incidentally, the lady in the apron I believe was his wife; looks a lot like her. I'm going to send a link of this to his daughter, as she will be so pleased that her father's work is receiving some attention and appreciation in 2021.


----------



## lmi

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64509


Here's an interesting piece of Schlitz bar art - all out of proportion in grandiosity to the beer itself lol


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> He probably wants a massage.


No, I think he probably wants a Yuengling or Horlacher! 😎


----------



## Flanderian

lmi said:


> Here's an interesting piece of Schlitz bar art - all out of proportion in grandiosity to the beer itself lol
> View attachment 64529


WOW! :icon_cheers: That is spectacular.










Now if only the same degree of talent had gone into the beer.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Wonderful


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Wonderful
> 
> View attachment 64568


Nice! 👍


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64584


Wow, that's a tall man.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64584


Navy blazer, khaki hued gabs, a blue and white university stripped shirt and white bucs...that is about as classic as it gets! Although we should probably drop the embroidered adornment ofthe jackets left breast pocket.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64584


👍 👍 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64678


Great ad! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64707


A fantastic men's suit, for sure, but look at that tennis racket the lady is carrying. Now that is the way the 'sports gawds' intended for tennis racquets to be made. Those were the days in which the game depended more on the athletes skill and less on the tennis racquets design! Just saying.... LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64707


Great illustration! A testament to a time when brands meant something! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

The paddock jacket. Cut and made to have both buttons buttoned. One of the better illustrations of same.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A fantastic men's suit, for sure, but look at that tennis racket the lady is carrying. Now that is the way the 'sports gawds' intended for tennis racquets to be made. Those were the days in which the game depended more on the athletes skill and less on the tennis racquets design! Just saying.... LOL.





Flanderian said:


> Great illustration! A testament to a time when brands meant something! 👍


I agree. I really love this one and only found it because @Flanderian inspired me to look for more Kuppenheimer illustrations.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I agree. I really love this one and only found it because @Flanderian inspired me to look for more Kuppenheimer illustrations.


Nudge Inc. :icon_saint7kg:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64767


Beautiful! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Really nice suit and illustration.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Really nice suit and illustration.
> 
> View attachment 64860


What language is that?


----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> What language is that?


I believe it is Austrian German. There are several dialects of German spoken in Austria, and in Bavaria and other regions within Germany. The written form in Austria is _Österreichisches Deutsch_ (Austrian Standard German).


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Really nice suit and illustration.
> 
> View attachment 64860


👍 👍 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

It is remarkable how outsized and exaggerated the shoulders on these jackets are -- must have been the hyper-masculine fashion in those days (1920s, perhaps?).

The line at the very bottom states that body darts are tailored in, although these models are described as "Sack Coats". I thought sack jackets were usually undarted. Maybe this company is a departure from that tradition.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 64872


I am not too sure I agree with that first line, especially since the subsequent copy appears to contradict it. If anything, quality and timelessness in clothing are the opposites of fashion, which, by its very nature, is fleeting and ephemeral. Or perhaps they want to claim that avoding fashion is itself a fashion.

The price of the jacket appears to indicate that this advert is from the late 1970s, perhaps. My very first Harris tweed jacket, a grey/brown/cream tick weave bought at Redwood and Ross in East Lansing, MI, in 1982, cost $175. I remember it with fondness. I wore that jacket for almost thirty years before giving it to one of my students who was in need of some jackets. She loved wearing men's sportcoats and shirts because the quality was so much better for the price compared to women's clothes -- that was her claim, and I think she was right! And our culture is much more accepting of women adopting and wearing men's clothes of every kind.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> It is remarkable how outsized and exaggerated the shoulders on these jackets are -- must have been the hyper-masculine fashion in those days (1920s, perhaps?).
> 
> The line at the very bottom states that body darts are tailored in, although these models are described as "Sack Coats". I thought sack jackets were usually undarted. Maybe this company is a departure from that tradition.


An interesting point. Historically, I've found the one term sack used to mean different things. And I've also read several different accounts of its origins.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> I am not too sure I agree with that first line, especially since the subsequent copy appears to contradict it. If anything, quality and timelessness in clothing are the opposites of fashion, which, by its very nature, is fleeting and ephemeral. Or perhaps they want to claim that avoding fashion is itself a fashion.
> 
> The price of the jacket appears to indicate that this advert is from the late 1970s, perhaps. My very first Harris tweed jacket, a grey/brown/cream tick weave bought at Redwood and Ross in East Lansing, MI, in 1982, cost $175. I remember it with fondness. I wore that jacket for almost thirty years before giving it to one of my students who was in need of some jackets. She loved wearing men's sportcoats and shirts because the quality was so much better for the price compared to women's clothes -- that was her claim, and I think she was right! And our culture is much more accepting of women adopting and wearing men's clothes of every kind.


Norman Hilton made some of the finest RTW tailored clothing. Through its history it continued to employ a lot of hand work in its manufacture. It also was an ardent proponent and adherent to the essential Ivy/Trad aesthetic with only subtle nods to fashion. (Similar to Chipp and Press in that regard.)

I think your surmise that the ad dates from the '70's a good guess. Perhaps the composer of the ad copy was attempting to deal with the comparatively traditional styling of the Norman Hilton jackets compared to the greater fashion of the era.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Ooh.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Ooh.
> 
> View attachment 64886


An interesting and entertaining illustration. One look at his face, the set of his eyes and the pronounced pouch of his mouth leaves one wondering 'what the hell is rambling around that hyperactive mind of his? LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Ooh.
> 
> View attachment 64886


Great illustration and sense of style! :loveyou:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I really like those old Brooks ads. You can feel the essence of what Brooks once was in them.

⇩ From J.Crew this weekend.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I really like those old Brooks ads. You can feel the essence of what Brooks once was in them.
> 
> ⇩ From J.Crew this weekend.
> View attachment 64967


Ultra Cool! 

A scion of the original Dick Carroll founder of the late, great Caroll & Co. of Beverly Hills? The founder passed away in '03 at the age of '80, and while I guess he might have done this, I think I detect a different and more recent aesthetic. A son or other relative would be my guess. Andy will know for sure.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ One of my favorites (it's my phone's wallpaper). The interesting thing is the above copy move the men from their original setting (note the position of the feet, especially of the man in the overcoat):


----------



## Fading Fast

I hate even following that ⇧ one.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I hate even following that ⇧ one.
> 
> View attachment 65000


I love it! :loveyou:

While vintage, frankly, I'd wear it now.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65062


A great illustration and I can't help but wonder if the gentleman is deep in thought, considering that the only way those trouser cuffs are going to work is if he spends all day walking with his right foot up on the curb and his left foot down on the road surface....and even at that, he still is wearing high water pants! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration and I can't help but wonder if the gentleman is deep in thought, considering that the only way those trouser cuffs are going to work is if he spends all day walking with his right foot up on the curb and his left foot down on the road surface....and even at that, he still is wearing high water pants! LOL.


Sometimes I ride my bicycle in the cooler weather wearing trousers. In order to avoid getting grease from the chain on my trousers, I often ride with the cuff of my right pants leg rolled up! The left leg is not of concern since the chain is on the right side.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration and I can't help but wonder if the gentleman is deep in thought, considering that the only way those trouser cuffs are going to work is if he spends all day walking with his right foot up on the curb and his left foot down on the road surface....and even at that, he still is wearing high water pants! LOL.


It certainly could be what @drpeter says, but I posted it simply because it echoed the rolled-up cuffs in the Ralph thread from a day or two ago.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> It certainly could be what @drpeter says, but I posted it simply because it echoed the rolled-up cuffs in the Ralph thread from a day or two ago.


LOL, one solution might be Jodhpurs -- for cycling, horse-riding, and high-water navigation. With a pair of water-resistant boots (Wellies, perhaps?), Jodhpurs should work even with a fair bit of water to wade through. But then you might also need a riding crop, swagger stick or at the very least a fly-swatter.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> ....and even at that, he still is wearing high water pants! LOL.


And that's because he's standing in high water, look again...










Here's another by the same artist, Jack Purcells (a favorite footwear) dangling from a power line.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> And that's because he's standing in high water, look again...
> 
> View attachment 65068
> 
> 
> Here's another by the same artist, Jack Purcells (a favorite footwear) dangling from a power line.
> 
> View attachment 65069


Both fun and insightful. I was thinking of you just this morning!


----------



## Peak and Pine

^
.And I often dream of you, especially when the moon is full.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65062


Haven't we all!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Really good. Love the way the artist capture the collar and tie knot.


----------



## Howard

Peak and Pine said:


> And that's because he's standing in high water, look again...
> 
> View attachment 65068
> 
> 
> Here's another by the same artist, Jack Purcells (a favorite footwear) dangling from a power line.
> 
> View attachment 65069


I always see shoes tied to a pole in those crappy neighborhoods.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Really good. Love the way the artist capture the collar and tie knot.
> 
> View attachment 65092


Great ad & style! :loveyou:

Awful beer. 🤢


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Really nice illustration.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Really nice illustration.
> 
> View attachment 65115


The springer makes it perfect.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Really nice illustration.
> 
> View attachment 65115


Another great JCL!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65327


At first glance I thought the rig on the right was captioned "The Caufield" and that resurrected memories of the character Holden Caufield, that rascally protagonist in JD Salinger's "The Catcher In The Rye" Good memories of a great/classic book. A closer look at the illustration above revealed the title to be The Cliffdale, hinting that I might have just taken a wayward stroll down memory lane, but good memories none the less. Perhaps it's time to reread Catcher In The Rye?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> At first glance I thought the rig on the right was captioned "The Caufield" and that resurrected memories of the character Holden Caufield, that rascally protagonist in JD Salinger's "The Catcher In The Rye" Good memories of a great/classic book. A closer look at the illustration above revealed the title to be The Cliffdale, hinting that I might have just taken a wayward stroll down memory lane, but good memories none the less. Perhaps it's time to reread Catcher In The Rye?


I've been thinking about rereading "That Catcher in the Rye" as well. I've probably read it three or four times in my life already.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65765


Never use a step ladder for a job in which an extension ladder is better suited or at least face the ladder toward the wall of the house. Hopefully he is able to grasp that baseball firmly in his hand before fate steps in and our hero rides that step ladder to the ground. :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65793


For a second there I thought the guy was looking at his smartphone.


----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> For a second there I thought the guy was looking at his smartphone.


But he is. It was an advance model sent by a time traveler.


----------



## Andy

drpeter said:


> But he is. It was an advance model sent by a time traveler.


Right! It's called a Magnetosphere business card. But obviously he's from another world since he has his bottom button fastened! :angry: 😲


----------



## drpeter

Andy said:


> Right! It's called a Magnetosphere business card. But obviously he's from another world since he has his bottom button fastened! :angry: 😲


I wonder if fastening the bottom button of a three-button jacket (or any other) is a sign of a deep-seated insecurity, psychological or simply structural -- rather like wearing both belt and braces to hold up your trousers.


----------



## Andy

drpeter said:


> I wonder if fastening the bottom button of a three-button jacket (or any other) is a sign of a deep-seated insecurity, psychological or simply structural -- rather like wearing both belt and braces to hold up your trousers.


drpeter:
But that's crazy! :crazy:
Lots of weather reporters button all because their suit jackets are properly sized or cut with a too wide flair thus showing the bottom of the necktie.
As for braces plus a belt it's ignorance or insecurity.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65581





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65765





Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65793


Lot's of nice stuff in my absence! 👍👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Love the guy on the right's vertical-stripe contrast-collar shirt, but might not have chosen to wear it with a horizontal-striped suit.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love the guy on the right's vertical-stripe contrast-collar shirt, but might not have chosen to wear it with a horizontal-striped suit.
> 
> View attachment 65983


I think you meant it the other way around, Faders. The shirt's stripes are horizontal, the suit's vertical.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I think you meant it the other way around, Faders. The shirt's stripes are horizontal, the suit's vertical.


Yes, good catch sir. I won't even edit and just let it stay wrong for posterity.


----------



## drpeter

That takes moral courage and great self-assurance. You're being extraordinarily kind to an old academic. Thank you.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love the guy on the right's vertical-stripe contrast-collar shirt, but might not have chosen to wear it with a horizontal-striped suit.
> 
> View attachment 65983


You guys are seeing things that I just don't see in the illustration above. I either need a new monitor or, Jeez Louise, I've got to have the prescription on these glasses checked!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love the guy on the right's vertical-stripe contrast-collar shirt, but might not have chosen to wear it with a horizontal-striped suit.


Acknowledging the below mea culpa  (Very Flanderian like, BTW!) I think the differing intensities of the patterns of shirt and suit make the whole composition harmonious. Impossible to say from the shading of the drawing, but the suit's pattern is either a faint, closely spaced pinstripe, or a self pattern of the cloth. Were it bolder, the whole thing would be yuck! 🤢



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65983


Love it! :loveyou:

Beautiful illustration! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> You guys are seeing things that I just don't see in the illustration above. I either need a new monitor or, Jeez Louise, I've got to have the prescription on these glasses checked!


Prescription!?!?

My computer glasses are 1.5 $12.95 drug store glasses.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Acknowledging the below mea culpa  (Very Flanderian like, BTW!) I think the differing intensities of the patterns of shirt and suit make the whole composition harmonious. Impossible to say from the shading of the drawing, but the suit's pattern is either a faint, closely spaced pinstripe, or a self pattern of the cloth. Were it bolder, the whole thing would be yuck! 🤢


That's an interesting perspective and could be spot on. I'd need to see it "live," but I hear you, it might work in a not-traditional way. I worked with a guy who could put four-pattern outfits together with an incredible sense of balance (some where better than others).

Once you are doing that, it requires a great eye and you have to see it "live" to form a real opinion. I did notice that the suit's pattern is somewhat "muted," but it's hard to tell from an illustration how that really looks (kinda like how J.Peterman clothes often differ in person from the illustrations).


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> You guys are seeing things that I just don't see in the illustration above. I either need a new monitor or, Jeez Louise, I've got to have the prescription on these glasses checked!


Faders is referring to the picture _above _his statement, not the one below -- so it is the one with the two chaps in suits, and he is referring to the one on the right.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Faders is referring to the picture _above _his statement, not the one below -- so it is the one with the two chaps in suits, and he is referring to the one on the right.


Thanks for the clarification, my friend.


----------



## Flanderian

Another from the series. Big Boys Don't Cry!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Another from the series. Big Boys Don't Cry!
> 
> View attachment 66113


A great illustration. However, while "Big Boys Don't Cry," they also don't apply rouge to their cheeks or wear lipstick and the the three boys in the picture appear to be doing both! Which brings us to the legitimate point that photographers back in those really old days did apply such makeup to men being photographed and apparently illustrators did too?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66167


Nicely '50's! 👍



eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration. However, while "Big Boys Don't Cry," they also don't apply rouge to their cheeks or wear lipstick and the the three boys in the picture appear to be doing both! Which brings us to the legitimate point that photographers back in those really old days did apply such makeup to men being photographed and apparently illustrators did too?


Or too much salt in their diet!


----------



## Flanderian

Possible dupe, but still nice. A favorite of mine -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Agreed, if a dupe, worth posting again.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Agreed, if a dupe, worth posting again.
> View attachment 66261


Beautifully rendered! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Another from same series as above -


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> Another from same series as above -
> 
> View attachment 66281


What a sad commentary on us all. O, to have lived in a time when every man was between 6'2" and 6'4" and had a 28" waist without ever working out harder than mixed doubles or mixing doubles.


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> What a sad commentary on us all. O, to have lived in a time when every man was between 6'2" and 6'4" and had a 28" waist without ever working out harder than mixed doubles or mixing doubles.


👍


----------



## eagle2250

Vecchio Vespa said:


> What a sad commentary on us all. O, to have lived in a time when every man was between 6'2" and 6'4" and had a 28" waist without ever working out harder than mixed doubles or mixing doubles.


There is a bit of ironic truth in what you say. I wish I had a copy to post, sadly I don't, but back in the late 1960's the USAF used me in a recruiting poster when I stood at 73" and weighed in at approximately 180+ pounds, sporting a 44" chest and a 30" waist. LOL, I had worked hard to get that way, but these days I work even harder for a lot more muddied results!


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> There is a bit of ironic truth in what you say. I wish I had a copy to post, sadly I don't, but back in the late 1960's the USAF used me in a recruiting poster when I stood at 73" and weighed in at approximately 180+ pounds, sporting a 44" chest and a 30" waist. LOL, I had worked hard to get that way, but these days I work even harder for a lot more muddied results!


Back in the late '60's the USAFSS used me as an example too -










It was called the "Don't be like that guy!" campaign.


----------



## Fading Fast

I've had an 8" "drop" my entire adult life, but unfortunately, it's from a 40" (gets sand kicked in his face at the beach) chest to 32" waist. Now, an 8" drop from a 44" chest would be something.

This guy ⇩ looks to have, what, a 44"⇨32" frame for a fantasy-world 12" drop?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I've had an 8" "drop" my entire adult life, but unfortunately, it's from a 40" (gets sand kicked in his face at the beach) chest to 32" waist. Now, an 8" drop from a 44" chest would be something.
> 
> This guy ⇩ looks to have, what, a 44"⇨32" frame for a fantasy-world 12" drop?
> View attachment 66389


Keep in mind the padded shoulders on the suit in that illustration could be adding two of the 44 inches you surmise. I would guess he is more of an actual 42" to 32" drop, but then, like my physique, my vision is also not what it used to be! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 66401


Bi swing shoulders and a tufted or tucked blower back...add side vents at the tail and that is exactly how a comfortable suit/sport coat should be made!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Bi swing shoulders and a tufted or tucked blower back...add side vents at the tail and that is exactly how a comfortable suit/sport coat should be made!


A natural shoulder sack with a single hook vent is pretty comfortable as well!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66481


Those were the days, flipping through the vinyl, selecting our afternoons entertainment to be stacked on the old Victrola. These days we tap the screen of our iphone and have an entire concert lined up. Change is constant, but it is not always for the better.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Those were the days, flipping through the vinyl, selecting our afternoons entertainment to be stacked on the old Victrola. These days we tap the screen of our iphone and have an entire concert lined up. Change is constant, but it is not always for the better.


I still play LPs, just not stacked. I am getting ready to cue some Ravel.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66481


👍

I can recall when my view of riches was having a huge record collection. And the successive audiophile debates as to the media with the most faithful reproduction, just to end up where it all began.

In the believe it or not category, the basement of my military barracks contained an airman run audio coop that was once Europe's #1 volume retailer if judged by full retail cost, The Darmstadt Audio Club. Cost to members for a nominal membership fee ran roughly 20% to a 1/3 of full retail due to volume purchasing by the club. Needless to say our barracks (Named Waterloo by its builders) rocked with high-end audio.

A record collector of note below -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ The length of that jacket (like these ⇩) must be sending those under 40 to the fainting couches.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ The length of that jacket (like these ⇩) must be sending those under 40 to the fainting couches.
> 
> View attachment 66619




Exceptional!


----------



## Flanderian

More 7' tall men to restore balance to the universe.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> More 7' tall men to restore balance to the universe.
> 
> View attachment 66625


The popularity of estate jacket designs must be restored! Nuff said.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66751


Who should she choose?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66751


It appears she is sitting on the arm of the character Frank Reagan in the TV series Blue Bloods. The rube with his left hand jammed in his pocket just doesn't stand a chance!  Great illustration, BTW.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66751


Looks like an early JCL.

Very nice! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

For the gentleman of gravitas -


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> It appears she is sitting on the arm of the character Frank Reagan in the TV series Blue Bloods. The rube with his left hand jammed in his pocket just doesn't stand a chance!  Great illustration, BTW.


I thought she was sitting on her father's lap after securing approval for her engagement, hence flashing the ring and everyone smiling.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66837


A great illustration, providing a decidedly entertaining visual study to occupy the mind of the viewer, while getting it's advertising message across. Not the gentleman wearing the long coat and stomping down the street with his paper under his right arm and chewing the stem off his pipe. He appears to have a lot on his mind, but this is just one story of what is happening on that street. Lots of fun....Thank-you.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration, providing a decidedly entertaining visual study to occupy the mind of the viewer, while getting it's advertising message across. Not the gentleman wearing the long coat and stomping down the street with his paper under his right arm and chewing the stem off his pipe. He appears to have a lot on his mind, but this is just one story of what is happening on that street. Lots of fun....Thank-you.


I really like this illustration too. Being 1928, you can already see that the clothing style are closer to what we think of as the early 1930s than the early 1920s.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66837


Wonderful illustration! :icon_cheers:

Almost looks like an early Fellows illustration. Fellows earlier illustrations were more linear than his work in AA/Esky, and this looks as if it could be transitional.


----------



## Flanderian

Re above, Herbert Fell Sharp, another AA/Esky illustrator, worked in a style similar to Fellows', and the handsome illustration posted by FF is also reminiscent of his work.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Wonderful illustration! :icon_cheers:
> 
> Almost looks like an early Fellows illustration. Fellows earlier illustrations were more linear than his work in AA/Esky, and this looks as if it could be transitional.


If it is Fellows, it's cool to see his style evolve over time. I imagine, somewhere - a college or foundation or something - his papers, sketches, other works, etc. are stored as it seems like that happens for most of these artists, authors, etc., even the ones who were not super famous.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> If it is Fellows, it's cool to see his style evolve over time. I imagine, somewhere - a college or foundation or something - his papers, sketches, other works, etc. are stored as it seems like that happens for most of these artists, authors, etc., even the ones who were not super famous.


I would hope so! But I suspect that excepting some well renowned illustrators like JCL and NC Wyeth, many of those we enjoy have not been archived for posterity. 😢


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> I would hope so! But I suspect that excepting some well renowned illustrators like JCL and NC Wyeth, many of those we enjoy have not been archived for posterity. 😢


I'm sure you are right. I was only hoping as I've done some research on authors from the '30s and '40s who had modest success and, surprisingly, their papers, etc., were archived at institutions, but a magazine illustrator is another thing.


----------



## 127.72 MHz




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm sure you are right. I was only hoping as I've done some research on authors from the '30s and '40s who had modest success and, surprisingly, their papers, etc., were archived at institutions, but a magazine illustrator is another thing.


I may be mistaken, and hope I am. Certainly I would think somewhere like FIT and Pratt would find them intrinsic to their courses of study.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ That makes sense.


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Re above, Herbert Fell Sharp, another AA/Esky illustrator, worked in a style similar to Fellows', and the handsome illustration posted by FF is also reminiscent of his work.
> 
> View attachment 66845
> 
> 
> View attachment 66847


The top photo looks like one of those mix and match stick on's you used to see in those magazines.


----------



## Peak and Pine

The print posted earlier today, this one...










...has been put up before (I remember commenting on the Bank of England chairs), yet worthy of a second try. Seems more than just a fashion ad, but it is, for Hart, Schaffner & Marx 1921, and where's the rest of it? It's obviously a detail of a larger piece, but I can't find it. There's anxiety on the part of the pictured pair even tho seated, you see it in their faces and their body language. It's a haunting piece, skilfully rendered.


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> The top photo looks like one of those mix and match stick on's you used to see in those magazines.


Wish it would stick on me! 



Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ That makes sense.
> 
> View attachment 67057


Beautiful illustration!

Classic duds! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Needs broader shoulders!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Needs broader shoulders!
> 
> View attachment 67081


What, are you implying his 46" chest to 32" waist drop of 14" is unrealistic?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> What, are you implying his 46" chest to 32" waist drop of 14" is unrealistic?


Possibly 50" X 28"!

But those yard wide shoulders! 🤯


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Outrageous prices, what's this world coming to?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

127.72 MHz said:


> Outrageous prices, what's this world coming to?
> 
> View attachment 67087


98 cents for a shirt? That's cheap for me, I'll take a dozen of them.


----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> 98 cents for a shirt? That's cheap for me, I'll take a dozen of them.


I posted this in Blues and Brags some time ago, but I found five short-sleeve pima cotton polo shirts on an incredible markdown at a local vintage shop that was clearing them out. Most of them were in fine condition and my cost was, on average, 77 cents per shirt! I went back the next day and found another seven or so, for an average cost of 79 cents per shirt. These are all shirts whose retail price was in the $25 to $40 range, and they were either US-made or Peru-made. Terrific quality, and in almost-new condition.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 67113


Very handsome! 👍


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Could "Conservative" have implied the "Trad" of the day?


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I particularly like how the artist captured the shirt collar, tie bar and tie on the gentleman in the foreground.

Getting this one in before baseball season is over.


----------



## Howard

drpeter said:


> I posted this in Blues and Brags some time ago, but I found five short-sleeve pima cotton polo shirts on an incredible markdown at a local vintage shop that was clearing them out. Most of them were in fine condition and my cost was, on average, 77 cents per shirt! I went back the next day and found another seven or so, for an average cost of 79 cents per shirt. These are all shirts whose retail price was in the $25 to $40 range, and they were either US-made or Peru-made. Terrific quality, and in almost-new condition.


That's great.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I particularly like how the artist captured the shirt collar, tie bar and tie on the gentleman in the foreground.
> 
> Getting this one in before baseball season is over.
> View attachment 67297


Another beautiful early JCL! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Flanderian

Into the storm! :cold:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Looks bullet proof








Found this version too ⇩


----------



## Flanderian

Wonderful illustration, and wonderful ad. From the era before the airborne cattle cars when air travel was still something special. Throughout the '60's and into the '70's I would most often wear a tie and jacket for air travel, and always for international travel.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ That's a really good one.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ That's a really good one.
> View attachment 67477


Great illustration from late '50's - early'60's. 👍 During the era, there were 3 main styles among retail offerings with a fair amount of borrowing among them. They were sometimes described as Ivy, continental and traditional. Ivy (Currently Trad) and Continental were both more fashionable trends with Ivy being the most popular. And both were worn most by younger men. The traditional of the era tended to be worn most by older, more mature men and most professionals. It is this later group that this ad illustration best represents.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Really well-done illustration. @eagle2250, I think the gentleman on the right has a watch in his breast pocket attached by a strap to his lapel button hole - I remember you and I we're looking at those a while back. It's always fun when an example pops up like this.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Really well-done illustration. @eagle2250, I think the gentleman on the right has a watch in his breast pocket attached by a strap to his lapel button hole - I remember you and I we're looking at those a while back. It's always fun when an example pops up like this.
> 
> View attachment 67569


Great illustration and great ad! :loveyou:

Another once vaunted maker of quality clothing, based in Rochester, NY.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## 127.72 MHz

Not quite an illustration. Pure British wool from Montgomery Ward!


----------



## 127.72 MHz

American Fat Cats,...


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 67757


Jay Gatsby observing George and Martha. 

Another great JCL!


----------



## Flanderian

Socks wid clocks what rocks! irate:


----------



## Peak and Pine

Flanderian said:


> Jay Gatsby observing George and Martha.
> 
> Another great JCL!


The referencing of illustrator John C Leyendecker as JCL appears to be a manufacture of this forum. New to me, a life long fan. Some postings attributed to him are incorrect, including the above. Too kitchy for John, it's by his younger brother Frank Xavier. (See his unimaginative sign at lower right.) John Leyendecker's sign is complex. Watch for it.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Flanderian said:


> Socks wid clocks what rocks! irate:
> 
> View attachment 67777


Two of each should hold me for awhile. I would gladly wear any of them.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

A wee more about Leyendecker...

For my 16th birthday my mother, who in the 30s had gone to the Boston School of Fine and Applied Art, taught art in public school shortly before marriage and had once met Leyendecker, gave me a signed print. No idea how she got it and cannot show it here because it hangs in another house and am having a devilish time trying to find it on line, probably because it does not exist there. It's what eventually become an Interwoven socks ad, but just the art work without the product mention. I do not know it's cash value, if any, only it's value to me.

Below, a favorite...


----------



## 127.72 MHz

"The Village Tailor." Norman Rockwell


----------



## Peak and Pine

127.72 MHz said:


> "The Village Tailor." Norman Rockwell
> 
> View attachment 68017


^^^

Amazing. A single subject painting is unusual for Rockwell. That one reminds me of N. C. Wyeth, another giant of the occupation.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 67969


Great illustration and great clothes! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

Before the wonders of Photo Shop, certain illustration mills would have books of generic heads, front, sides and rear view, a form of clip-art, and they would snip and paste the heads onto different fashions. The above, posted here earlier today, looks like one of those jobs, a really bad one.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 68027


I remember this one from the Esquire thread and love it, one of my favorites.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68035


Late '40's, early '50's - great illustration!


----------



## Flanderian

A pair of well dressed kitchen frig pirates -irate:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Feels Esquire - love his herringbone suit.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> A pair of well dressed kitchen frig pirates -irate:
> 
> View attachment 68093


Raiders of the Lost Kitchen Fridge?

The chap in the grey suit looks a bit like like Dagwood -- a world-renowned midnight kitchen fridge raider. One of my local friends who owned a restaurant in town in the eighties had a sandwich on his menu named The Dagwood. You can imagine how much stuff went into the filling, LOL.

My own fridge is packed to the gunwales with...well, stuff. (Or gunnels, if you wish). So it demands constant raiding, I should think.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> A pair of well dressed kitchen frig pirates -irate:
> 
> View attachment 68093


A great illustration, nice suits for sure, but those octogenarial buccaneers are totally oblivious to that two legged "diet plate" standing behind them. They need to put on their eyeglasses or get their priorities in order! LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

The question is, who pours beer into a pilsner looking straight ahead with their eyes closed? Answer, this guy, forced to do so by a crappy illustrator.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Feels Esquire - love his herringbone suit.
> 
> View attachment 68107


It is. And wonderful illustration above! 👍



drpeter said:


> Raiders of the Lost Kitchen Fridge?


Great line! :laughing:



eagle2250 said:


> A great illustration, nice suits for sure, but those octogenarial buccaneers are totally oblivious to that two legged "diet plate" standing behind them. They need to put on their eyeglasses or get their priorities in order! LOL.


See no evil . . . . etc.! :icon_saint7kg:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## drpeter

Shaken, not stirred?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Shaken, not stirred?


.....but, but when it is shaken, they bruise the Gin....that just can't be good? LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68143


Two thirds of a basic business wardrobe...yes, no?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68143


Outstanding!


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> .....but, but when it is shaken, they bruise the Gin....that just can't be good? LOL.


Depends.

As a lad, I read all of Fleming's Bond books, as I had a bromance going with the hero, (Anti?) who was essentially both a snob and a thug, though a patriotic one. My recollection (Razor sharp 60 years ago, a dim fog today.) is that the books posited his martinis as "*stirred*, not shaken" rather than the other way round.

A pursuit of continuing this misspent youth during the following years resulted in my becoming an amateur bartender of sorts. As in, what do you do at 3AM sequestered on a hillside in a foreign country when you're too wired to sleep after just having worked an 8 hour rotating shift?

First, it's important to make mixed drinks with cold ice. It would seem obvious that *all* ice is cold. But it's not that simple. You've got ice that's thrown into a large receptacle where it's floating around in the process of melting, and you've got ice that is rock hard, way below 32 degrees F, that is truly cold. You want the later.

Assuming the above, whether a drink is stirred or shaken is determined by the properties you wish to impart, notably dilution. A shaken drink will result in a more diluted, less strong drink, whereas a stirred drink will be less diluted, and hence stronger, and contain more liquor per sip. A skilled bartender will elect the method best suited to the nature of the drink they are preparing to get the exact effect they desire.

Edit: Rereading this, more on the issue has come back to me, and I am savoring it, as libations are something I now enjoy only in memory.

Among those drinks traditionally stirred rather than shaken are the Manhattan, the Stinger and the Negroni. Old fashioned, yes I know, but delicious in their simplicity when prepared with top ingredients and obsessive care; and potent! And to this I would add the Martini.

Among those always to be shaken, an equally simple concoction, the Bourbon Sour. My favorite, the original Wild Turkey, fresh squeezed lemon juice and cane sugar, shaken with cracked ice. To be strained into a glass of course, not plopped like slush into an oversized one, which seems to be the contemporary trend.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> .....but, but when it is shaken, they bruise the Gin....that just can't be good? LOL.


I imagine Bond (or rather, Fleming) must like a little bruising now and then, even if it is only the gin..."I like my gin slightly bruised".


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Love those "two-tone" shawl collar sweaters.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love those "two-tone" shawl collar sweaters.
> 
> View attachment 68267


I'm not sure about the garments in the photo above, but hidden away, somewhere in this hoard is a tennis racquet very similar to the one pictured! Just saying.......


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 68247


Were those the actual prices back then?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love those "two-tone" shawl collar sweaters.
> 
> View attachment 68267


Wonderful illustration, and outfit! 👍



Howard said:


> Were those the actual prices back then?


Yes, I would assume so.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I imagine Bond (or rather, Fleming) must like a little bruising now and then, even if it is only the gin..."I like my gin slightly bruised".


Shaking does several things to a martini, but bruising the botanicals is not one of them. It gets the drink very cold, it contributes a tad more melt water than stirring, it leaves miniature ice floes on top of the drink, and it aerates the drink. The aeration has a very small impact on the flavor, but it is detectable. A stirred martini, not being as cold or as dilute, has more of the flavor of the more subtle botanicals. I enjoy them both ways.


----------



## drpeter

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Shaking does several things to a martini, but bruising the botanicals is not one of them. It gets the drink very cold, it contributes a tad more melt water than stirring, it leaves miniature ice flows on top of the drink, and it aerates the drink. The aeration has a very small impact on the flavor, but it is detectable. A stirred martini, not being as cold or as dilute, has more of the flavor of the more subtle botanicals. I enjoy them both ways.


I am in the middle of _Carte Blanche_, a Bond novel written by Jeffrey Deaver. This writer says that Bond actually likes the aerated gin that results from shaking. Perhaps Deaver himself is partial to shaken martinis.

When I used to drink, my favourite form of alcohol was scotch -- generally single malts but also some blends. I liked it neat, or with a bit of cold water or sometimes, club soda, and at most one cube of ice.

My personal feeling is that we put far too much ice into drinks in our society. Barkeeps usually plunge the glass into a slowly melting tray of ice, then bring it up filled to the brim with ice, and pour alcohol into what space is left in the glass! Perhaps they save on the booze this way, but the net result is a quickly diluted, and generally tasteless drink. If you enjoy the taste of the whiskey or gin or other drink, why mess it up with all that ice?


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Shaking does several things to a martini, but bruising the botanicals is not one of them. It gets the drink very cold, it contributes a tad more melt water than stirring, it leaves miniature ice flows on top of the drink, and it aerates the drink. The aeration has a very small impact on the flavor, but it is detectable. A stirred martini, not being as cold or as dilute, has more of the flavor of the more subtle botanicals. I enjoy them both ways.


Since I'm responsible for having picked up the ball and run the wrong way, ("Shaken not stirred.") I enjoyed your expanding upon my expounding.  My only demure is with the term "tad." But though having conducted no scientific measurements 50+ years ago, my recollection as to the amount of dilution is that the difference was a tad more than a tad. 

But this assumes facts not in evidence. Or at least not yet. I.e., my method requires *very* cold ice *cubes* fresh from the ice machine, or from my elegant ice bucket. (A combat helmet hung out the window by its chin strap.) These ice cubes then placed on a bar towel, which is folded over, and the ice cracked with a hammer. No mechanical shaver adding friction. and hence melt. This cracked ice then placed in a dry, chilled mixing glass, the ingredients quickly measured into the glass, swirled a few times with a bar spoon and strained into a chilled glass. This method of stirring resulting in a drink seeming as cold as one shaken, but without the inevitable melt which occurs (most usefully for some drinks.) by the mechanical friction of shaking, even with the same very cold cracked ice.

Entirely in agreement concerning the aeration. My perception is that it imparts a slight fizziness to a drink. Very desirable for a Bourbon Sour, but not for my Negroni.

Irrespective of mixing method, employing cracked rather than shaved ice results in minimal to no ice flows.



drpeter said:


> I am in the middle of _Carte Blanche_, a Bond novel written by Jeffrey Deaver. This writer says that Bond actually likes the aerated gin that results from shaking. Perhaps Deaver himself is partial to shaken martinis.
> 
> When I used to drink, my favourite form of alcohol was scotch -- generally single malts but also some blends. I liked it neat, or with a bit of cold water or sometimes, club soda, and at most one cube of ice.
> 
> My personal feeling is that we put far too much ice into drinks in our society. Barkeeps usually plunge the glass into a slowly melting tray of ice, then bring it up filled to the brim with ice, and pour alcohol into what space is left in the glass! Perhaps they save on the booze this way, but the net result is a quickly diluted, and generally tasteless drink. If you enjoy the taste of the whiskey or gin or other drink, why mess it up with all that ice?


Reminds me of the look of horror upon the server's face while on holiday in Britain when after he or she placed a microscopic chip of ice in my scotch, I requested more! 

Alas, at heart, I am an American! 😢


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> Since I'm responsible for having picked up the ball and run the wrong way, ("Shaken not stirred.") I enjoyed your expanding upon my expounding.  My only demure is with the term "tad." But though having conducted no scientific measurements 50+ years ago, my recollection as to the amount of dilution is that the difference was a tad more than a tad.
> 
> But this assumes facts not in evidence. Or at least not yet. I.e., my method requires *very* cold ice *cubes* fresh the ice machine, or from my elegant ice bucket. (A combat helmet hung out the window by its chin strap.) These ice cubes then placed on a bar towel, which is folded over, and the ice cracked with a hammer. No mechanical shaver adding friction. and hence melt. This cracked ice then placed in a dry, chilled mixing glass, the ingredients quickly measured into the glass, swirled a few times with a bar spoon and strained into a chilled glass. This method of stirring resulting in a drink seeming as cold as one shaken, but without the inevitable melt which occurs (most usefully for some drinks.) by the mechanical friction of shaking, even with the same very cold cracked ice.
> 
> Entirely in agreement concerning the aeration. My perception is that it imparts a slight fizziness to a drink. Very desirable for a Bourbon Sour, but not for my Negroni.
> 
> Irrespective of mixing method, employing cracked rather than shaved ice results in minimal to no ice flows.
> 
> Reminds me of the look of horror upon the servers face while on holiday in Britain when after he or she placed a microscopic chip of ice in my scotch, I requested more!
> 
> Alas, at heart, I am an American! 😢


Well the tad can quickly become a TAD! Most bartenders do not shake or stir very long. I do!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love those "two-tone" shawl collar sweaters.
> 
> View attachment 68267


That racquet looks as if it would be very heavy.


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Well the tad can quickly become a TAD! Most bartenders do not shake or stir very long. I do!


Indeed it can! 👌


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 68287


⇧ Very well done.


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 68287


Is he about to shoot the dog?


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 68287


An interesting illustration...a mixed bag of interests for sure. Perhaps Dad is just home from work and is preparing to meet a questionable young lad coming to pick up his daughter for a first date. His mission is to explain the ground rules before the date commences. LOL. Been there, done that! Thanks for the memories.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Very well done.
> 
> View attachment 68325


Still looking for trousers with a rise that generous! Would have missed that if the gentleman on the right had not tucked his sweater in his trouser waist.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> An interesting illustration...a mixed bag of interests for sure. Perhaps Dad is just home from work and is preparing to meet a questionable young lad coming to pick up his daughter for a first date. His mission is to explain the ground rules before the date commences. LOL. Been there, done that! Thanks for the memories.


Haha, remember the Dad in the film _Clueless_? This is the high-end lawyer who warns the lad with the Sinatra outfit who comes to pick up his daughter (played by Alicia Silverstone): "Bring her back by 11 PM. Remember, I've got a forty-five and a shovel here."


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Still looking for trousers with a rise that generous! Would have missed that if the gentleman on the right had not tucked his sweater in his trouser waist.


My recently thrifted RL Polo trousers in heavy flannels have that generous a rise. They look great on me, and I am most pleased with them. Perfect for the coming months in the tundra here.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Very well done.
> 
> View attachment 68325


Great illustration! 👍 (Think Jimmy Stewart may have been the inspiration. )


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Is he about to shoot the dog?





eagle2250 said:


> An interesting illustration...a mixed bag of interests for sure. Perhaps Dad is just home from work and is preparing to meet a questionable young lad coming to pick up his daughter for a first date. His mission is to explain the ground rules before the date commences. LOL. Been there, done that! Thanks for the memories.


Just returned from work and took a look at his investment portfolio. Is preparing for a trip to his broker to discuss the latter's investment strategy. :icon_pale:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68375


Now who is to blame for this one...the designer, the illustrator or the model? In any event, the above is an image that will never cease to haunt me! :crazy: Sorry for the brutal honesty.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Now who is to blame for this one...the designer, the illustrator or the model? In any event, the above is an image that will never cease to haunt me! :crazy: Sorry for the brutal honesty.


Reminds me of a young Jeff Goldblum.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68375





eagle2250 said:


> Now who is to blame for this one...the designer, the illustrator or the model? In any event, the above is an image that will never cease to haunt me! :crazy: Sorry for the brutal honesty.


Uhhh . . . . 🤔


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 68383


Anywhere?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68467


Wonderful illustration! :icon_hailthee:

Having sat on two criminal juries that rendered verdicts, this scene is very reminiscent of the first where we deliberated for 3 days, and the judge sent us back twice, before a verdict could be reached.


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Anywhere?


Yes, it unquestionably *is* somewhere! 

Your backyard?


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Admittedly not an illustration of the the Florsheim "Yuma." (Foreground) The Yuma has always been one of my favorite shoes.

I recall my Father wearing these with his off white khakis.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

Flanderian said:


> Wonderful illustration! :icon_hailthee:
> 
> Having sat on two criminal juries that rendered verdicts, this scene is very reminiscent of the first where we deliberated for 3 days, and the judge sent us back twice, before a verdict could be reached.


Yes--I was the foreman of a criminal jury and this rings so true--there is always a hold out. We (I) delivered a verdict to a courtroom that was suddenly packed and to my great surprise we were then promptly escorted out of the courtroom, back through the jury room, each with a policeman for our protection, through a tunnel and we exited through another building a block away and told to go straight home. They don't tell you this stuff ahead of time.....


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Yes, it unquestionably *is* somewhere!
> 
> Your backyard?


mine is too small.


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> Yes--I was the foreman of a criminal jury and this rings so true--there is always a hold out. We (I) delivered a verdict to a courtroom that was suddenly packed and to my great surprise we were then promptly escorted out of the courtroom, back through the jury room, each with a policeman for our protection, through a tunnel and we exited through another building a block away and told to go straight home. They don't tell you this stuff ahead of time.....


You apparently deliberated in a more enlightened jurisdiction. I can recall in the first trial rubbing elbows (Though not literally) with the defendant as we waited to go into the court, no sheriff's deputies present. :icon_pale:

The second trial was the opposite of the first; after entering the jury room, to produce a first straw vote the foreman asked in a mocking tone if anyone thought the defendants not guilty? One by one we each raised our hand, then he did too. It seems that each of us by the end of the trial independently came to the conclusion that neither the prosecution or defense had produced any credible evidence, and the defendant wins ties.

He said we better wait awhile before reentering the court with our unanimous verdict, so we sat around the table for another 45 minutes before he told the bailiff that we had reached a verdict. We filed out and the judge announced the verdict, and the prosecutor's jaw hit the floor. To this day I don't understand how he believed he could prevail without a single credible witness. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> mine is too small.


So, you don't have parks in Bayside!?


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> So, you don't have parks in Bayside!?


Yes, we do.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68717


Has anyone else noticed how grey suede gloves have nearly disappeared?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68717


Very nice! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Yes, we do.


 Parks are good! :icon_cheers:
Parks + barbeque = picnic!!! :happy:


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Has anyone else noticed how grey suede gloves have nearly disappeared?


I hadn't but now that you've mentioned it . . . . 🤔


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> I hadn't but now that you've mentioned it . . . . 🤔


It is carryover from the USN, wearing them with blues. I used to like them to work with a navy overcoat and navy or dark grey suit with a white shirt.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68805


Ah, Schlitz!

I remember it, though not fondly. 🤢


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Ah, Schlitz!
> 
> I remember it, though not fondly. 🤢


You didn't care for its taste?

I must say most American beers, usually lagers, tasted pretty bland (light and thin) to me, back when I drank. I did like the European kind, darker and somewhat more bitter. But I did not drink much of it. Beer was an occasional beverage for me then, since I much preferred scotch or gin, and usually wine with meals.


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> So, you don't have parks in Bayside!?


Yes, we do.


Flanderian said:


> View attachment 68811


I wonder if they were fighting over the same woman?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68805


Make that Guinness Extra Stout and you have a real winner! Don't want to foment an argument, but I have never been a big fan of Schlitz...it's OK but not much more.


----------



## FiscalDean

eagle2250 said:


> Make that Guinness Extra Stout and you have a real winner! Don't want to foment an argument, but I have never been a big fan of Schlitz...it's OK but not much more.


It's hard to believe, I've never even sampled Schlitz even though I grew up in WI. However, I have fond memories of Miller and Pabst. When my wife and I were first dating, we often took their factory tours which ended in the tasting rooms. We were broke college kids so it was a cheap "date"


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> You didn't care for its taste?
> 
> I must say most American beers, usually lagers, tasted pretty bland (light and thin) to me, back when I drank. I did like the European kind, darker and somewhat more bitter. But I did not drink much of it. Beer was an occasional beverage for me then, since I much preferred scotch or gin, and usually wine with meals.


In the mid '60's I would sometimes drink a beer, but didn't think much of it was very good, preferring mixed drinks. But upon going to live in Germany, I discovered that it wasn't that I didn't like beer, I just didn't like most *American* beer! In Germany there's poor beer, but a great deal more good beer! German beers then tended to have regional characteristics along with specialty type beers that better compliment differing foods, or for differing occasions, and the best of it is very delicious indeed!

An exception to my mild disinterest in American beers at the time, was an inexpensive Pennsylvania brewed beer I had sampled named Horlacher, now defunct. Upon traveling to Germany, I found it was generically similar in character to German beer. Another German lager style beer still being brewed and widely sold in my area is Yuengling. It is also inexpensive, but isn't just a good cheap beer, but a good beer period, very similar in character to a slightly lighter bodied German lager.

Though of course, the craft brewing industry in NJ, and I'm sure much of the U.S., is now producing some superb beers, and in a dizzying number of varieties. I found I tended to favor ales, though not IPA's. The best of it is every bit as good, and sometimes better, than the traditional European beers I came to enjoy.

Alas, personal necessity now requires I remain abstinent. And I would dearly love a fine beer with a meal, or the wines I equally enjoy, a cordial or aperitif. Have never been drawn primarily to drinking just "hard" liquors.

An example of American craft beers that echoes some of the fruit beers of Belgium and could be said to combine beer, desert wine or cordial all in one bottle is this for the Christmas season by Troegs -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68467


This is another painting in which Norman Rockwell included himself. See him?


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> In the mid '60's I would sometimes drink a beer, but didn't think much of it was very good, preferring mixed drinks. But upon going to live in Germany, I discovered that it wasn't that I didn't like beer, I just didn't like most *American* beer! In Germany there's poor beer, but a great deal more good beer! German beers then tended to have regional characteristics along with specialty type beers that better compliment differing foods, or for differing occasions, and the best of it is very delicious indeed!
> 
> An exception to my mild disinterest in American beers at the time, was an inexpensive Pennsylvania brewed beer I had sampled named Horlacher, now defunct. Upon traveling to Germany, I found it was generically similar in character to German beer. Another German lager style beer still being brewed and widely sold in my area is Yuengling. It is also inexpensive, but isn't just a good cheap beer, but a good beer period, very similar in character to a slightly lighter bodied German lager.
> 
> Though of course, the craft brewing industry in NJ, and I'm sure much of the U.S., is now producing some superb beers, and in a dizzying number of varieties. I found I tended to favor ales, though not IPA's. The best of it is every bit as good, and sometimes better, than the traditional European beers I came to enjoy.
> 
> Alas, personal necessity now requires I remain abstinent. And I would dearly love a fine beer with a meal, or the wines I equally enjoy, a cordial or aperitif. Have never been drawn primarily to drinking just "hard" liquors.
> 
> An example of American craft beers that echoes some of the fruit beers of Belgium and could be said to combine beer, desert wine or cordial all in one bottle is this for the Christmas season by Troegs -
> 
> View attachment 68819


Wisconsin is home to a number of old breweries since we have a large German immigrant population dating back more than a century. There are also several good craft breweries and brew pubs, some of which make fine porters as well as lighter lagers. Before I quit drinking I had sampled some of these and liked them. I do like *Guinness* as well as some Ales like *India Pale Ale*. My own little town has its locally famous beer, *Point Special Lager* (Stevens Point Brewery), which does have its admirers elsewhere in the Midwest and in the country! My old country, India, had some good beers as well -- probably still do. Here is Point Beer. Their old T shirt slogan: "Point Beer: It Is Not Just For Breakfast Any More"


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Wisconsin is home to a number of old breweries since we have a large German immigrant population dating back more than a century. There are also several good craft breweries and brew pubs, some of which make fine porters as well as lighter lagers. Before I quit drinking I had sampled some of these and liked them. I do like *Guinness* as well as some Ales like *India Pale Ale*. My own little town has its locally famous beer, *Point Special Lager* (Stevens Point Brewery), which does have its admirers elsewhere in the Midwest and in the country! My old country, India, had some good beers as well -- probably still do. Here is Point Beer. Their old T shirt slogan: "Point Beer: It Is Not Just For Breakfast Any More"
> 
> View attachment 68849


Sounds like a very fine Pilsner style beer. While Pilsner style beers were brewed in Germany, most Germans felt a Czech pils, Urquell pilsner the finest.

Local micro breweries include -










And -










Whose brewer marches to the beat of a different drummer -










But among local foamy libations my favorite was a red ale, a variety I tended to prefer -










Brewed at a quaint brew pub on the National Historic Register -










Too bad the kitchen has gone to seed, and they need not have "improved" the furnishings with blond wood. 😡


----------



## Flanderian

Charles Dana said:


> This is another painting in which Norman Rockwell included himself. See him?


By George, it does indeed! 😲


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Sounds like a very fine Pilsner style beer. While Pilsner style beers were brewed in Germany, most Germans felt a Czech pils, Urquell pilsner the finest.
> 
> Local micro breweries include -
> 
> View attachment 68873
> 
> 
> And -
> 
> View attachment 68877
> 
> 
> Whose brewer marches to the beat of a different drummer -
> 
> View attachment 68879
> 
> 
> But among local foamy libations my favorite was a red ale, a variety I tended to prefer -
> 
> View attachment 68881
> 
> 
> Brewed at a quaint brew pub on the National Historic Register -
> 
> View attachment 68883
> 
> 
> Too bad the kitchen has gone to seed, and they need not have "improved" the furnishings with blond wood. 😡


Love the Man Skirt! Have to get myself one of those utility kilts...


----------



## eagle2250

FiscalDean said:


> It's hard to believe, I've never even sampled Schlitz even though I grew up in WI. However, I have fond memories of Miller and Pabst. When my wife and I were first dating, we often took their factory tours which ended in the tasting rooms. We were broke college kids so it was a cheap "date"


I can hear Mary Hopkin's singing off in the distance, "Those were the days, my friends; we thought they would never end!" The one thing Mrs Eagle remembers of our dating experience back in the day, is that I was tall, good looking well mannered and decidedly cheap....she tells me she can't remember dating anyone who could stretch a buck as far as I was able to do. Thank gawd she wasn't into me for my money! LOL.


----------



## 127.72 MHz




----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> This is another painting in which Norman Rockwell included himself. See him?


Wasn't there one where he was painting himself?


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Norman Rockwell created this in 1960.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68887


Marvelous! Not sure of the illustrator, Rockwell?


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Kamakura Shirt email.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68943
> 
> From a recent Kamakura Shirt email.


The introduction of Seersucker.....to what year do we credit ever popular style? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68943
> 
> From a recent Kamakura Shirt email.


They forgot the hook vent and lapped seams!  👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> They forgot the hook vent and lapped seams!  👍


You're right, but while they didn't note them, the seams look lapped; as to the center hook, we'd need a pic from behind. I'm just glad somebody besides Press is trying to keep Ivy alive.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> You're right, but while they didn't note them, the seams look lapped; as to the center hook, we'd need a pic from behind. I'm just glad somebody besides Press is trying to keep Ivy alive.


👍 👍


----------



## Fading Fast

Another from Kamakura that seems to address @Flanderian items:


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> You're right, but while they didn't note them, the seams look lapped; as to the center hook, we'd need a pic from behind. I'm just glad somebody besides Press is trying to keep Ivy alive.


Ironic that J Press has been owned by a Japanese company, Onward Kashiyama, since 1986 or so.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Ironic that J Press has been owned by a Japanese company, Onward Kashiyama, since 1986 or so.


Several years ago, I posted comments about the book "Ametora" (comments here:  #33 ), which describes how Japan became involved with Ivy clothes as far back as the 1950s and how, today as you note, it could easily be argued Japan has "saved" Ivy from extinction.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Flanderian's post #4373 got me thinking about the quality of McGregor's offerings. (At a given point in time.)

Obviously not an illustration but perhaps you will find this interesting.

I own several vintage McGregor coats that display remarkable attention to detail and overall quality. I love the names of some of their coats in the 50's and 60's that reflect the public's fascination with our nation's advancements. (One of my 1960's era McGregor coats is called
"The Ram Jet.")

Here is one I recently found on Ebay:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Another from Kamakura that seems to address @Flanderian items:
> View attachment 69107


Ahh . . . . corrected all malfeasance! 👍

But should those lapped seams by 1/4" or 3/8"? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## 127.72 MHz

circa 1950s


----------



## 127.72 MHz

1955 I would wear any one of them today,...


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 69155


He should stop smoking.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Portland, Oregon's own Jantzen sportswear ad from 1967.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69249


Very nice illustration! What do you think of the tucked in sweater vest?


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> He should stop smoking.


He will. ☠


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Very nice illustration! What do you think of the tucked in sweater vest?


I'm not a fan of tucked in sweaters or sweater vests in general. I've seen Ralph do it a lot (I think he does it to show/sell more belts) and, occasionally, it looks okay when the sweater and pants are of a similar color and texture and the pants are dress trousers, but overall, it's better left out IMO.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I'm not a fan of tucked in sweaters or sweater vests in general. I've seen Ralph do it a lot (I think he does it to show/sell more belts) and, occasionally, it looks okay when the sweater and pants are of a similar color and texture and the pants are dress trousers, but overall, it's better left out IMO.


All true! 👍

But I'm of a mixed mind.

First, I'm very fond of sweater vests. (You know, I'm chilly. I think I'll go put on my wine colored lambs wool, but not tuck it in. )

The tucked in sweater vest was common, if not universal during the '30's. Obviously, it helps if you have a very small waist, but like a short waistcoat, it can add length to the body by providing a longer leg line.


----------



## Flanderian

'Tis the season to buy socks . . . . tra-lah, lah-lah, lah, lah! 🥳


----------



## 127.72 MHz

[HEADING=2]Over the years Interwoven had some beautiful ads.[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]Interwoven Mills, Martinsburg, North Carolina (1890-1976)[/HEADING]

Interwoven Mills was a textile factory that specialized in the manufacturing of men's hosiery. The mill opened in 1890 under the name Middlesex Knitting Company. The plant that stood at this location on Porter Avenue was the first textile mill to be powered by electricity in the United States. The company went through several ownership changes and operated under a few different names until 1962 when it was acquired by the Kayser-Roth Corporation. That textile manufacturer is still in business and based in North Carolina, but the Martinsburg plant was closed in 1976.

A brief history with some images of the still standing plant.

https://theclio.com/entry/82317


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69293


I'm well aware of the fact that there is broad appeal for wide shoulders in men's suit/sports jackets and overcoats. The wide shoulders tapering down to a narrow waist is supposed to connote a vigorous masculinity. But I've never found the look attractive because the width of the shoulders, especially when exaggerated, falls so out of proportion with the rest of the garment. In fact, I should think that a man with extremely wide natural shoulders and an extremely narrow natural waist would want to have a tailor make adjustments so that these factors are less pronounced in a jacket or coat. But perhaps I am in a minority here.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I'm well aware of the fact that there is broad appeal for wide shoulders in men's suit/sports jackets and overcoats. The wide shoulders tapering down to a narrow waist is supposed to connote a vigorous masculinity. But I've never found the look attractive because the width of the shoulders, especially when exaggerated, falls so out of proportion with the rest of the garment. In fact, I should think that a man with extremely wide natural shoulders and an extremely narrow natural waist should want to have a tailor make adjustments so that these factors are less pronounced in a jacket or coat. But perhaps I am in a minority here.


I agree. At 6'1" 150lbs, I positively, definitely do not have wide shoulders, but here's the thing, artificially making my shoulders wider by extending the shoulders of the suit jacket/sport coat looks off or wrong or something.

When I first started buying tailored clothing, a few salesmen suggested I try that and I never liked the results as it felt and looked odd.

IMO, properly fitted clothing looks better than clothing exaggerated to hide a flaw. To be sure, a few tweaks by the tailor here or there can help, but I believe you have to "own" yourself, flaws and all.

I'm tall, thin and have narrow shoulders, that's all there is to it. I don't exaggerate it - I avoid vertical stripes (I look terrible in pinstripes) - but avoiding something that emphasizes a flaw is different than aggressively trying to mask the flaw


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69293


*YOWZER!!! :happy:*


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ What a beautiful illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ What a beautiful illustration.
> 
> View attachment 69327


Thank you!

Great style here!


----------



## Flanderian

Consider the possibilities -


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Consider the possibilities -
> 
> View attachment 69353


Nice options, but I must tell you, at 0500 hours options are not what is needed, but rather 30 pair of basic black socks in the drawer to choose from. I can't claim to have bought all those, but the word has gotten out that I wear black GoldToes and they always seem to show up in the Christmas stocking! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Nice options, but I must tell you, at 0500 hours options are not what is needed, but rather 30 pair of basic black socks in the drawer to choose from. I can't claim to have bought all those, but the word has gotten out that I wear black GoldToes and they always seem to show up in the Christmas stocking! LOL.


Christmas stocking? (Another pun? )


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Nice options, but I must tell you, at 0500 hours options are not what is needed, but rather 30 pair of basic black socks in the drawer to choose from. I can't claim to have bought all those, but the word has gotten out that I wear black GoldToes and they always seem to show up in the Christmas stocking! LOL.


Your requirement brought to mind a detail from a work of fiction written back in the late seventies: Early in the novel _Nine and a Half Weeks_, the writer Elizabeth McNeill describes the wardrobe of her male character, a Wall Street broker, in great detail -- the traditional suits, white and blue shirts and other items. One of his dresser drawers is filled to the brim with nothing but identical black socks and another, similarly, with identical grey socks! This was a way of achieving what you asked for: The ability in the early morning dark to get dressed without worrying about matching socks.

This also brings to mind a funny story from my own experience. Back when I was still teaching, my department chair called me one winter morning into his office, and when I entered, simply pointed to his shoes, with a chuckle. There, on his feet were two identical brogues, one burgundy and one black! He said this was one of the dangers of dressing in the dark.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Irecall


drpeter said:


> Your requirement brought to mind a detail from a work of fiction written back in the late seventies: Early in the novel _Nine and a Half Weeks_, the writer Elizabeth McNeill describes the wardrobe of her male character, a Wall Street broker, in great detail -- the traditional suits, white and blue shirts and other items. One of his dresser drawers is filled to the brim with nothing but identical black socks and another, similarly, with identical grey socks! This was a way of achieving what you asked for: The ability in the early morning dark to get dressed without worrying about matching socks.
> 
> This also brings to mind a funny story from my own experience. Back when I was still teaching, my department chair called me one winter morning into his office, and when I entered, simply pointed to his shoes, with a chuckle. There, on his feet were two identical brogues, one burgundy and one black! He said, this was one of the dangers of dressing in the dark.


I recall a similar scene. In front of the Friday morning officers' meeting at Texas Commerce Bank a guy whose anonymity I shall preserve was called to the front to speak. In front of several hundred of us it was revealed he was wearing navy chalk stripe trousers and same width grey chalk stripe jacket.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Your requirement brought to mind a detail from a work of fiction written back in the late seventies: Early in the novel _Nine and a Half Weeks_, the writer Elizabeth McNeill describes the wardrobe of her male character, a Wall Street broker, in great detail -- the traditional suits, white and blue shirts and other items. One of his dresser drawers is filled to the brim with nothing but identical black socks and another, similarly, with identical grey socks! This was a way of achieving what you asked for: The ability in the early morning dark to get dressed without worrying about matching socks.
> 
> This also brings to mind a funny story from my own experience. Back when I was still teaching, my department chair called me one winter morning into his office, and when I entered, simply pointed to his shoes, with a chuckle. There, on his feet were two identical brogues, one burgundy and one black! He said, this was one of the dangers of dressing in the dark.


LOL , It was experiences such as your friend reported that I think contributed to my staying in uniform so much of my adult life, but alas the day eventually came when the USAF sent me a letter advising that military service was a young man's game and I was no longer a young man and that it was time for me to hang up my Air Force tunic and go home. Hence I have been struggling to put together a decent, matching, well coordinated rig each day, ever since!


----------



## drpeter

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Irecall
> 
> I recall a similar scene. In front of the Friday morning officers' meeting at Texas Commerce Bank a guy whose anonymity I shall preserve was called to the front to speak. In front of several hundred of us it was revealed he was wearing navy chalk stripe trousers and same width grey chalk stripe jacket.


LOL, It may have been a new style he was trying out, chalk stripes on different background colours.


----------



## Flanderian

More socks with clocks what rocks! 

Very similar to those once supplied to me in grey cotton lisle by F. R. Tripler.

Edit: They were a lighter, silvery grey, and I enjoyed pairing them with navy pinstripe suits on which their color tended to pick out the stripe.


----------



## Fading Fast

Talking about socks, here's a guy shellacking his floor in grey dress trousers, penny loafers (maybe, hard to tell) and argyle socks.


----------



## FiscalDean

drpeter said:


> LOL, It may have been a new style he was trying out, chalk stripes on different background colours.


An early attempt at casual Friday!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Talking about socks, here's a guy shellacking his floor in grey dress trousers, penny loafers (maybe, hard to tell) and argyle socks.
> View attachment 69555


Maybe I'm missing something, Faders, but isn't he painting the kitchen cabinets? Or maybe you are using the word 'shellacking' metaphorically, given the position of his knees and her stance with one hand on hip.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Talking about socks, here's a guy shellacking his floor in grey dress trousers, penny loafers (maybe, hard to tell) and argyle socks.
> View attachment 69555


👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Wonderful ad. Not a fan of a corduroy jacket with corduroy pants (unless it's a suit), but still a heck of an illustration.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Wonderful ad. Not a fan of a corduroy jacket with corduroy pants (unless it's a suit), but still a heck of an illustration.


Frankly, neglected to read the ad text, but agree 100%. Just a beautiful lost opportunity for pairing cords with all the other cloth that enriches its texture.

👍


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69731


Very '58 to '68! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69791


*WOW!* :happy:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## DCR

Clearly that Pilgrim wasn't starving prior to the first Thanksgiving


----------



## Flanderian

DCR said:


> Clearly that Pilgrim wasn't starving prior to the first Thanksgiving


Maybe he was a Sicilian Pilgrim? :icon_scratch:

Considering the implements and methods then extant, it was likely accomplished as infrequently as possible!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69879


Thanks for the reminder...we need to resupply the drink stores before guests arrive on the morrow! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69879


Seasonal, with great '50's look and feel! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Quintessential '40's style!


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Quintessential '40's style!
> 
> View attachment 69885


Timely for sure. I love the illustrations of the food for the 1648 Thanksgiving holiday; somewhat impressed by the sartorial depictions; and am truly thankful that times have changed, clothing styles have evolved and I will be wearing chinos and one of my beloved vented fishing shirts for tomorrows Thanksgiving gathering.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Timely for sure. I love the illustrations of the food for the 1648 Thanksgiving holiday; somewhat impressed by the sartorial depictions; and am truly thankful that times have changed, clothing styles have evolved and I will be wearing chinos and one of my beloved vented fishing shirts for tomorrows Thanksgiving gathering.


And that's the pre-laundering era. Clothing got laundered once a year whether it needed it or not! 

My mother was born in 1910, and from the age of 15, she had the dubious honor of "keeping house" for her 5 brothers and father after my grandmother passed away. Electric wash machines, even electrification, were really in their infancy. And the first few years of her duties entailed a scrub board, mangle and a clothes line. Laundering was a weekly endeavor, and consumed an entire day.


----------



## Fading Fast

Not an illustration ⇩ but fits the vibe.


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> And that's the pre-laundering era. Clothing got laundered once a year whether it needed it or not!
> 
> My mother was born in 1910, and from the age of 15, she had the dubious honor of "keeping house" for her 5 brothers and father after my grandmother passed away. Electric wash machines, even electrification, were really in their infancy. And the first few years of her duties entailed a scrub board, mangle and a clothes line. Laundering was a weekly endeavor, and consumed an entire day.


So you worn the clothing until it stunk to high heaven?


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69969
> View attachment 69971
> 
> 
> Not an illustration ⇩ but fits the vibe.
> View attachment 69973


Wonderful illustrations!

Thank you! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> So you worn the clothing until it stunk to high heaven?


Me personally? No. While my mother habitually still did laundry on Mondays, the advent of automatic wash machines (But still had a cloths line.) and an adequate wardrobe allowed for a fresh change daily.

But those Pilgrims had a paucity of dry cleaners. 

Happy Thanksgiving, Howard! 🥳


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Me personally? No. While my mother habitually still did laundry on Mondays, the advent of automatic wash machines (But still had a cloths line.) and an adequate wardrobe allowed for a fresh change daily.
> 
> But those Pilgrims had a paucity of dry cleaners.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving, Howard! 🥳


You Too, Flanders.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70021


Handsome coats! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

Guess who?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69969
> View attachment 69971
> 
> 
> Not an illustration ⇩ but fits the vibe.
> View attachment 69973


There was a time when what is pictured above is the way we served the feast in the Eagles Crib, but these days we have a really large island in the kitchen. Plates, food drinks etc, are set out on that island and everyone just serves themselves. It seems to work pretty well that way!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> Guess who?
> 
> View attachment 70033


JAB?


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> JAB?




Good ol' Brooks!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> Good ol' Brooks!


Fascinating. Banks used to run similar ads and at least in the sixties and seventies always seemed to include a DB and a two button. Great ad!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70119


Beautiful!


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Nice options, but I must tell you, at 0500 hours options are not what is needed, but rather 30 pair of basic black socks in the drawer to choose from. I can't claim to have bought all those, but the word has gotten out that I wear black GoldToes and they always seem to show up in the Christmas stocking! LOL.


Got some black socks for you! :devil:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70021


The coat on the left has a lower buttoning point than most coats I've seen. Very similiar to the DoW's polo coat I've seen.

I've been highly tempted to have a coat made like that in camel hair in the future, but the open chest is always what brings me back down to reality. During a windy day, forget it.

On the other hand, I already have coats that can button up all the way for windy days, so maybe I should treat myself in the future!

What are your thoughts? Do you have an idea on what would make your quintessential polo coat?


----------



## Fading Fast

delicious_scent said:


> The coat on the left has a lower buttoning point than most coats I've seen. Very similiar to the DoW's polo coat I've seen.
> 
> I've been highly tempted to have a coat made like that in camel hair in the future, but the open chest is always what brings me back down to reality. During a windy day, forget it.
> 
> On the other hand, I already have coats that can button up all the way for windy days, so maybe I should treat myself in the future!
> 
> What are your thoughts? Do you have an idea on what would make your quintessential polo coat?


At one point, I owned an overcoat (not a polo) with a low button stance and it is a negative as you guessed as you, not only need a scarf, you will regularly spend some time positioning the scarf to have good chest coverage - basically, it's more work than I want from my clothing. After that coat, I always made sure my overcoats had a normal or higher button stance.

I regret not having bought a polo coat when I was younger and would have had a use for it; now I have too many unused overcoats to justify another overcoat purchase. If I did indulge, especially where I'm at now in my life, I'd try to check as many Trad boxes for it as I could since it would be an "experience" purchase.


----------



## drpeter

Great point. I have a similar concern with DB jackets, Faders. I much prefer a higher button stance, and I have seen DB jackets that are so low that the only button that works is the one at the very bottom (and perhaps a jigger button inside). The large lapels go all the way down and hang loose and open at the chest, and you feel like you need a very large ascot instead of a tie to cover the shirt front! In fact, I much prefer the naval style DB button stance, high and with vertical rows of buttons on either side, rather than the spread-out top button pair. But it is hard to find jackets like that for civilian use. Of course one can always move the top buttons and position them directly above the ones in the second pair. It would be great to find a US Navy blazer, but they are usually not there in the Army-Navy surplus places, especially without insignia.


----------



## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> At one point, I owned an overcoat (not a polo) with a low button stance and it is a negative as you guessed as you, not only need a scarf, you will regularly spend some time positioning the scarf to have good chest coverage - basically, it's more work than I want from my clothing. After that coat, I always made sure my overcoats had a normal or higher button stance.
> 
> I regret not having bought a polo coat when I was younger and the would have had use for it; now I have too many unused overcoats to justify another overcoat purchase. If I did indulge, especially where I'm at now in my life, I'd try to check as many Trad boxes for it as I could since it would be an "experience" purchase.


Hahahaha, I had to laugh because you brought me back down to reality again.

I already have too many unused overcoats already as well, hopefully they will get some use when I'm fully finished school and into my career. Even school is entirely WFH for me at the moment.

I was able to get some good use in last winter during an internship.

I'm tempted to get a polo coat sooner rather than later because my tailor isn't getting any younger.

Though I'll say I've finally learned to mull on purchases 1-2 years beforehand rather than buying them right away. Shiny things are so distracting and tempting.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> At one point, I owned an overcoat (not a polo) with a low button stance and it is a negative as you guessed as you, not only need a scarf, you will regularly spend some time positioning the scarf to have good chest coverage - basically, it's more work than I want from my clothing. After that coat, I always made sure my overcoats had a normal or higher button stance.
> 
> I regret not having bought a polo coat when I was younger and would have had a use for it; now I have too many unused overcoats to justify another overcoat purchase. If I did indulge, especially where I'm at now in my life, I'd try to check as many Trad boxes for it as I could since it would be an "experience" purchase.


+1!

Getting that area covered is essential to trying to stay warm. One reason I loved my grey herringbone overcoat was that it was a DB, and that extra fold of material delivered right where it's needed.

Conversely, I've got a Bean barn coat with a button-out liner, but the liner stops a few inches from the edge of the coat where it buttons, leaving a 4" or 5" strip of canvas right down the middle that's the only covering. Rather poor design IMO. But since I otherwise like and find the coat convenient, I simply make sure I wear one of my cashmere scarves draped down the center to provide the requisite warmth.


----------



## 215339

The other configuration I was looking at was this one.


__
http://instagr.am/p/BsChAKIhifn/

Tailor Chris Despos posted this coat at TOF. This coat is for a customer who lives in a similiar area to me. Looks very warm with a closed chest, but it does lose a lot of the drama of an overcoat IMO.


----------



## drpeter

I actually prefer the style of the second (Despos) coat to that of the first (beige) coat. The high button stance, balanced lapels, and parallel columns of buttons are very much to my liking. To each his own, I suppose!


----------



## 215339

drpeter said:


> I actually prefer the style of the second (Despos) coat to that of the first (beige) coat. The high button stance, balanced lapels, and parallel columns of buttons are very much to my liking. To each his own, I suppose!


Yep, I can see the appeal. It is a very "straight" cut overall from top to bottom, no nonsense, and wouldn't require much fussing with scarves either.

The other one has curves, sweeping lapels, and differing button placements. The flair is definitely what appeals to me.


----------



## Fading Fast

delicious_scent said:


> Yep, I can see the appeal. It is a very "straight" cut overall from top to bottom, no nonsense, and wouldn't require much fussing with scarves either.
> 
> The other one has curves, sweeping lapels, and differing button placements. The flair is definitely what appeals to me.


Think about how you're going to use the coat in the context of your overall wardrobe. What I mean is that if you already have an overcoat with a high-button stance for those insanely cold days, then there's no reason not to lean toward your aesthetic preference with the polo coat.

When I was young, I bought items to "cover" as many weather and "dressing" scenarios as possible because I had a small wardrobe. But overtime, as the wardrobe grew, I could buy "tactical" items that filled niches or just because of aesthetic preference.

A good polo coat should last you a few decades, so you are smart to take your time and think about what you really want.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Think about how you're going to use the coat in the context of your overall wardrobe. What I mean is that if you already have an overcoat with a high-button stance for those insanely cold days, then there's no reason not to lean toward your aesthetic preference with the polo coat.
> 
> When I was young, I bought items to "cover" as many weather and "dressing" scenarios as possible because I had a small wardrobe. But overtime, as the wardrobe grew, I could buy "tactical" items that filled niches or just because of aesthetic preference.
> 
> A good polo coat should last you a few decades, so you are smart to take your time and think about what you really want.


Excellent advice! One of the great advantages of thrift shopping is that one can indulge in one's predilections and fancies at a very low cost. In the last couple of years, I have added several overcoats of various types, ranging from trench coats (including a recently acquired Burberry), to chesterfields, ulsters and several polo coats.


----------



## Flanderian

delicious_scent said:


> The other configuration I was looking at was this one.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/BsChAKIhifn/
> 
> Tailor Chris Despos posted this coat at TOF. This coat is for a customer who lives in a similiar area to me. Looks very warm with a closed chest, but it does lose a lot of the drama of an overcoat IMO.





drpeter said:


> I actually prefer the style of the second (Despos) coat to that of the first (beige) coat. The high button stance, balanced lapels, and parallel columns of buttons are very much to my liking. To each his own, I suppose!


Like it oughta be! irate:


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70291


----------



## Flanderian

Speaking of the '50's, a walk on the wild side circa '58 - '61 -


----------



## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> Think about how you're going to use the coat in the context of your overall wardrobe. What I mean is that if you already have an overcoat with a high-button stance for those insanely cold days, then there's no reason not to lean toward your aesthetic preference with the polo coat.
> 
> When I was young, I bought items to "cover" as many weather and "dressing" scenarios as possible because I had a small wardrobe. But overtime, as the wardrobe grew, I could buy "tactical" items that filled niches or just because of aesthetic preference.
> 
> A good polo coat should last you a few decades, so you are smart to take your time and think about what you really want.


Great advice F_F, I appreciate it.

The second paragraph is exactly the situation I'm in right now. Unsure if I've "covered" all the situations for my small wardrobe, so I think it's a good idea to hold off for now.

I'm glad I was steered away from blue tweeds and slim raglans on here for my last coat. No more though! I already have two raglans now.

I dig this current coat by Drake's. It's more of an ulster coat than a polo coat. I think it's the lapel shape and angle that really does it for me. I'm normally not a fan of flapped breast pockets, but I'm ambivalent about this one. Darts are distracting on a camel coloured coat though, I'd get rid of them.











drpeter said:


> Excellent advice! One of the great advantages of thrift shopping is that one can indulge in one's predilections and fancies at a very low cost. In the last couple of years, I have added several overcoats of various types, ranging from trench coats (including a recently acquired Burberry), to chesterfields, ulsters and several polo coats.


I've recently come around to this. I wasn't aware that there's a plethora of great overcoats available for a good price. This could give me an opportunity to try out different styles without contributing to waste, and then have a coat made later.


Flanderian said:


> Like it oughta be! irate:
> 
> View attachment 70295


I dig this one, but the lapels and gorge look very high to me, could be the camera angle.


----------



## Fading Fast

Something we talk about from time to time, on the right is a historical example of a sweater tucked into the dress trousers.


----------



## drpeter

The problem with tucking in sweater and shirt (and perhaps an undershirt or T shirt to add to the mix) is that there is often a lot of bulk around the belt line. Unless one has a waist that is slim to the point of non-existence, this practice will result in an uncomfortable bunching under the waistband of one's trousers.

I often take the opposite tack, not just with sweaters, as most people do, but also with long-sleeved polo shirts. I always wear a polo shirt outside, or untucked. And then, when I wish to have another layer, I wear a jacket or blazer over them. It's a bit more comfortable for me.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> The problem with tucking in sweater and shirt...is that there is often a lot of bulk along the belt line.


True. But the solution may not be to abandon the sweater tuck, but to have pants and jackets tailored to accomodate. Too loose or baggy if worn without the sweater? Of course, but just like you have indoor and outdoor jackets, each for a specific purpose, likewise with pants. You have sweater pants and regular pants.

I like the look and feel of a tucked light weight sweater. And even the more extreme: to accomodate a heavy Norwegian pull-over, I have both a larger girthed jacket and a Norwegian with the sleeves removed.

-----------------------​
_He returns to add:_
The Norwegian is not tucked, too _visually_ heavy. The example is given to tell of the accomodation of jackets as well as pants.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

delicious_scent said:


> Great advice F_F, I appreciate it.
> 
> The second paragraph is exactly the situation I'm in right now. Unsure if I've "covered" all the situations for my small wardrobe, so I think it's a good idea to hold off for now.
> 
> I'm glad I was steered away from blue tweeds and slim raglans on here for my last coat. No more though! I already have two raglans now.
> 
> I dig this current coat by Drake's. It's more of an ulster coat than a polo coat. I think it's the lapel shape and angle that really does it for me. I'm normally not a fan of flapped breast pockets, but I'm ambivalent about this one. Darts are distracting on a camel coloured coat though, I'd get rid of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've recently come around to this. I wasn't aware that there's a plethora of great overcoats available for a good price. This could give me an opportunity to try out different styles without contributing to waste, and then have a coat made later.
> 
> I dig this one, but the lapels and gorge look very high to me, could be the camera angle.


That is a beautiful camel coat, but I just can't get excited about flapped breast pockets. In the prep tradition of dressing OTR my favorite polo is the one O'Connell's offers, but I went single breasted instead. Camel coats are surprisingly warm.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Vecchio Vespa said:


> That is a beautiful camel coat, but I just can't get excited about flapped breast pockets.


I question it's beauty, but agree with Vespa about the breast flap. The beauty part seems marred by the buttoned coat jamming up against the patch pockets, and the breast flap - - and I like breast pocket flaps - - seems created by a monkey. I'll explain, first take another look...










A breast pocket, jet or patch, is always smaller than its cousins on the hip. Here its the same size. Or the flap is. A breast pocket angles slightly down toward the right, not like here, where it zooms ski slope sharply. Most rotten, the flap must be a parallelogram, not a rectangle, the left and right edges must run in a straight vertical line. These do not. I think the entire coat is ruined by this humungus outa shape pocket.


----------



## 215339

Vecchio Vespa said:


> That is a beautiful camel coat, but I just can't get excited about flapped breast pockets. In the prep tradition of dressing OTR my favorite polo is the one O'Connell's offers, but I went single breasted instead. Camel coats are surprisingly warm.


I'm with you, they're mainly just distracting.

The one I posted is surprisingly 100% wool, I thought it was pure camelhair.

I've thought about trying single breasted coats, but they seem to often have fairly open chests, or are very conservative in styling. On the other hand, camel is so bold, maybe it all balances out.

Do you have any pictures of yours?


Peak and Pine said:


> I question it's beauty, but agree with Vespa about the breast flap. The beauty part seems marred by the buttoned coat jamming up against the patch pockets, and the breast flap - - and I like breast pocket flaps - - seems created by a monkey. I'll explain, first take another look...
> 
> View attachment 70451
> 
> 
> A breast pocket, jet or patch, is always smaller than its cousins on the hip. Here its the same size. Or the flap is. A breast pocket angles slightly down toward the right, not like here, where it zooms ski slope sharply. Most rotten, the flap must be a parallelogram, not a rectangle, the left and right edges must run in a straight vertical line. These do not. I think the entire coat is ruined by this humungus outa shape pocket.


I came to respect that pocket, despite usually disliking flapped breast pockets.

That's a giant, flappy pocket that isn't shy, and I dig the synergy between it and the patch pockets.

Good eye on the cramped patch pockets, I didn't catch that initially.









Ralph's flapped pocket here is much smaller. Frankly I'm more annoyed by this one because it unintentionally looks slapped on, like a design detail was lost in translation. It makes me want to get out some scissors and snip it off.









Another flapper.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70423
> 
> 
> Something we talk about from time to time, on the right is a historical example of a sweater tucked into the dress trousers.


Outstanding! :happy:



delicious_scent said:


> I'm with you, they're mainly just distracting.
> 
> The one I posted is surprisingly 100% wool, I thought it was pure camelhair.
> 
> I've thought about trying single breasted coats, but they seem to often have fairly open chests, or are very conservative in styling. On the other hand, camel is so bold, maybe it all balances out.
> 
> Do you have any pictures of yours?
> 
> I came to respect that pocket, despite usually disliking flapped breast pockets.
> 
> That's a giant, flappy pocket that isn't shy, and I dig the synergy between it and the patch pockets.
> 
> Good eye on the cramped patch pockets, I didn't catch that initially.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ralph's flapped pocket here is much smaller. Frankly I'm more annoyed by this one because it unintentionally looks slapped on, like a design detail was lost in translation. It makes me want to get out some scissors and snip it off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another flapper.


Very nice! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

delicious_scent said:


> That's a giant, flappy pocket that isn't shy, and I dig the synergy between it and the patch pockets.


I have no idea what that means, but I respect your bull dog attitude on this, especially while being dead wrong. That Ralph pic, it's iconic, I have a copy, always wary that smoke from the votive candle might smudge it.


----------



## 215339

Peak and Pine said:


> I have no idea what that means, but I respect your bull dog attitude on this, especially while being dead wrong. That Ralph pic, it's iconic, I have a copy, always wary that smoke from the votive candle might smudge it.


Basically, the bold pocket seems congruent with the overall sporty and casual nature of the coat. It makes the swelled edges even more apparent, which I enjoy. It also appears to lie flat rather than jut out, which is a bonus.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 70453


This is a really nice one. I know we've had Austin Reed illustrations before - and they've always been well done - but I don't remember ever seeing this one before.

My first (and only) true trench coat was an olive Austin Reed one that was meaningfully less expensive than Burberry, but I'd say of similar quality.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> This is a really nice one. I know we've had Austin Reed illustrations before - and they've always been well done - but I don't remember ever seeing this one before.
> 
> My first (and only) true trench coat was an olive Austin Reed one that was meaningfully less expensive than Burberry, but I'd say of similar quality.


Good!  I hate posting dupes.

I'm sure through the years I've seen Austin Reed clothing, but don't recall much. Believe it to have been poorly represented in the U.S.

Burberry has a well deserved reputation, but at some point, even well before it became just a fashion brand, both its reputation and price exceeded its reality. I have two trench coats, both between 25 & 30 years old. One Burberry and one Brooks. Like both and each of fine quality, but frankly, the Brooks coat is better, more guts.


----------



## drpeter

You know, I have a lovely Botany 500 trench coat in olive green that is as good as any other trench coat I have, including Burberry. Considerably less expensive, especially since it was picked up on a deep discount sale. I don't have a Brooks trench coat, so I can't compare there.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> You know, I have a lovely Botany 500 trench coat in olive green that is as good as any other trench coat I have, including Burberry. Considerably less expensive, especially since it was picked up on a deep discount sale. I don't have a Brooks trench coat, so I can't compare there.


A fine quality brand once upon a time. 👍


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70511


Never heard of that Island.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Howard said:


> Never heard of that Island.


Ever heard of WWII?
Howard, Google these things. It's free.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Ever heard of WWII?
> Howard, Google these things. It's free.


The history is interesting.

The Battle of Wake Island began with the Japanese attack on US forces on Dec 8 1941, along with the attack on Pearl Harbor (Dec 7th because of the time zones).

The other bit of history is that on Dec 10, two days later, Britain's two famous dreadnoughts, the _Prince of Wales_ and the _Repulse_ were sunk by more than eighty Japanese strike aircraft in the South China sea, twenty miles off Kuantan on the east coast of British Malaya. To my knowledge it was the first time that air attacks destroyed capital ships (deemed unsinkable) in an actual war, although it had been done during military exercises. My father, who worked for the British colonial administration, was in Kuala Lumpur at that time, and like everyone else in Malaya, waiting for the Japanese invasion.

I read about ten accounts of this last naval/air battle and included a detailed description in my first novel, _The Colony of Grace_. which is about an incident during the Japanese occupation of Malaya, based on one of my father's stories. One of these days, I'll get around to publishing it, with luck!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70511


Squarely placed in the early '60's. 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Squarely placed in the early '60's. 👍


Agreed, early Don Draper.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed, early Don Draper.


There has to be a term for what you just did, Faders, but I cannot seem to find it. If there isn't a term, perhaps we need to invent one. Maybe language experts or literature professors can help us here.

You commented, very deftly, on an artist's drawing of a man's clothes in an advert by placing it in a historical time period through a fictional character (that is, his clothes) from a TV series set in that time period. Very nice! This use of a fictional character (who was himself carefully outfitted by the costume designer to achieve the look of the early sixties) to reference a broader aspect is something I have seen now and then, and even engaged in myself. I've always thought this a clever inversion -- if that's the right word. By the way, the costuming in _Mad Men_ is meticulous and exact, and achieves a verisimilitude that is truly enviable.

The closest term I can think of is_ synecdoche_, the business of the part representing the whole (e.g., The Pentagon to represent the US Military). In a sense, it is the clothing part representing a historical period as a whole, but through fictional referencing, rather than real means. So perhaps _fictional synecdoche_?


----------



## Peak and Pine

Clothing sketches...

(You've probably heard that $Tree is raising it's prices to $1.25. As a counter measure I am keeping my posting prices steady AND offering more pics per post.)



















...and this personal one from way back, me, shortly after release from juvey...


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> There has to be a term for what you just did, Faders, but I cannot seem to find it. If there isn't a term, perhaps we need to invent one. Maybe language experts or literature professors can help us here.
> 
> You commented, very deftly, on an artist's drawing of a man's clothes in an advert by placing it in a historical time period through a fictional character (that is, his clothes) from a TV series set in that time period. Very nice! This use of a fictional character (who was himself carefully outfitted by the costume designer to achieve the look of the early sixties) to reference a broader aspect is something I have seen now and then, and even engaged in myself. I've always thought this a clever inversion -- if that's the right word. By the way, the costuming in _Mad Men_ is meticulous and exact, and achieves a verisimilitude that is truly enviable.
> 
> The closest term I can think of is_ synecdoche_, the business of the part representing the whole (e.g., The Pentagon to represent the US Military). In a sense, it is the clothing part representing a historical period as a whole, but through fictional referencing, rather than real means. So perhaps _fictional synecdoche_?


I've always loved that word and _metonymy_, which in my small brain anyway, overlaps in use if not meaning with _synecdoche_. We "do" the things in those words, quite often when speaking, without even thinking about it. As with many things, they are easier to do that way, as when you start to think about it, it can get confusing.


----------



## Peak and Pine

I thought this...










...posted yesterday, was a parody. And may still be, but no one else seems to have picked up on it. Wake Island is one of the most desolate places on earth. Zero people live there. There is no animal life except rats and dead sea birds. We snatched it from Spain after the Spanish American War. And Pan Am, it Googlely turns out, did actually have a presence there, building a refueling depot for Anerica's first US to the Orient (a name that should be brought back) air route.

But they actually let folks off the plane, dressed to the 60s nines, to stumble around this rock strewn hell hole? And promoted it with a poster of smiling faces as they're greeted by the natives, of which there are none?

-------------------------​
I be a moth to a flame for a quality post, well-written and info packed, and this one, spurred by that Pan Am thing, by @drpeter fills that bill...



drpeter said:


> The Battle of Wake Island began with the Japanese attack on US forces on Dec 8 1941, along with the attack on Pearl Harbor (Dec 7th because of the time zones).
> 
> The other bit of history is that on Dec 10, two days later, Britain's two famous dreadnoughts, the _Prince of Wales_ and the _Repulse_ were sunk by more than eighty Japanese strike aircraft in the South China sea, twenty miles off Kuantan on the east coast of British Malaya. To my knowledge it was the first time that air attacks destroyed capital ships (deemed unsinkable) in an actual war, although it had been done during military exercises. My father, who worked for the British colonial administration, was in Kuala Lumpur at that time, and like everyone else in Malaya, waiting for the Japanese invasion.
> 
> I read about ten accounts of this last naval/air battle and included a detailed description in my first novel, _The Colony of Grace_. which is about an incident during the Japanese occupation of Malaya, based on one of my father's stories. One of these days, I'll get around to publishing it, with luck!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70751


Great illustration, but I find myself motivated to ask, who among us has ever traveled with a trunk as our heavy luggage. Or are we looking at a clothing salesman hawking his wares at a trunk show?


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> I thought this...
> 
> View attachment 70779
> 
> 
> ...posted yesterday, was a parody. And may still be, but no one else seems to have picked up on it. Wake Island is one of the most desolate places on earth. Zero people live there. There is no animal life except rats and dead sea birds. We snatched it from Spain after the Spanish American War. And Pan Am, it Googlely turns out, did actually have a presence there, building a refueling depot for Anerica's first US to the Orient (a name that should be brought back) air route.
> 
> But they actually let folks off the plane, dressed to the 60s nines, to stumble around this rock strewn hell hole? And promoted it with a poster of smiling faces as they're greeted by the natives, of which there are none?
> 
> -------------------------​
> I be a moth to a flame for a quality post, well-written and info packed, and this one, spurred by that Pan Am thing, by @drpeter fills that bill...


Why thank you, Peaks! That is very kind of you.

As for Wake Island, I too was wondering what the attraction of the place was. It is a group of three atolls, and I doubt if there were any people there at any time, but apparently it had some strategic importance in WWII. Maybe they built a memorial to the war dead there, and the smart set went to pay homage?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Great illustration, but I find myself motivated to ask, who among us has ever traveled with a trunk as our heavy luggage. Or are we looking at a clothing salesman hawking his wares at a trunk show?


From what I've read and seen, there was a time, mainly pre WWII, but it held on a bit into the '50s, when wealthier travelers would take trunks of clothes with them, mainly when going on a stream ship. It was also a time when porters would meet your cab at the dock and, then, tag and take your trunk to your "stateroom" for you.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> Great illustration, but I find myself motivated to ask, who among us has ever traveled with a trunk as our heavy luggage.





Fading Fast said:


> From what I've read and seen, there was a time, mainly pre WWII, but it held on a bit into the '50s, when wealthier travelers would take trunks of clothes with them, mainly when going on a stream ship.


Rearranging stuff in the Cold Room (which really they all are in a Maine December) Sunday, I had to move what you see below, so took a pic of it. My grandfather's (born the year Lincoln was shot, I knew him for 12 years before he went North). It's his steamer trunk, heavily varnished by me to preserve what was left of the stickckers....










..the favorite of which is this one, The White Star Line, you probably know as the line of the Titanic. This trunk is from that date. (Imagine, these bobbing up in the water off Halifax.). Bonus: my purple, laceless Jack Purcells.










The trunk in the illustration earlier posted is for train travel. It's a mini-closet, and some years back one was standing unblemished near a stack of trash at the town dump. I took it. It's wonderful, basically made from a very thick paste board with metal cleats at the corners. I have restored it. Hangers and drawers and all sorts of stuff. I would have to go to an outbuilding, plus clean off bat sh** to photograph it, so nix for now on that.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70751


Very nice! Retailer catalog, most likely early '40's. 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ That's a beautiful one. The travel posters of the era were, very often, well done and, like here, are a treasure trove of clothing styles form that time.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 70847


Since LNER stands for London North Eastern Railway, perhaps we can safely assume that the Scarborough referred to here is the coastal resort town in Yorkshire, and not Scarborough, NY (on the Hudson) or other similarly named towns in the US.

In any case, this is a gorgeous image, as FF points out. It reminds me of a magazine advert for travel to Bermuda which I saw as a child in Malaya and fell in love with. That one too showed a long sweep of beach with small buildings, but at twilight, with that lovely nacreous blue light one usually finds closer to the tropics, at the point where it is fading into dark. It had distant lights that seemed to twinkle on in the buildings on shore, and the dark blue of the ocean past the beach.

Eager as I was in those days to travel and see the world that I had only read about in books, I imagined what it would be like to be on that beach. And life did turn out well in that respect. I have travelled to so many countries, lived in several, learned the languages of other people and tried to understand their cultures. That is the ultimate education, and I speak as one who made a life in teaching and research. Sometimes the world contains blessings in disguise, and the pleasure of living is to discover these blessings and keep them in our memories, and close at hand in our hearts. It can well be our insurance against despair.

Good heavens, all that from an advert! Maybe there is a point to advertising...


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 70847





drpeter said:


> Since LNER stands for London North Eastern Railway, perhaps we can safely assume that the Scarborough referred to here is the coastal resort town in Yorkshire, and not Scarborough, NY (on the Hudson) or other similarly named towns in the US.


When @drpeter posted his comment, I went back and looked at the pic and noticed that the gentleman is wearing a combo that takes a thoughtful eye to put together: a tan jacket with off-white (or stone) trousers.

I like the look a lot in the summer and have worn it for years, but you have to be careful to make sure there is enough contrast between the color of the two items or it looks off. And, of course, you have to take into consideration the textures, patterns, etc., but nailing the color contrast is key.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Rearranging stuff in the Cold Room (which really they all are in a Maine December) Sunday, I had to move what you see below, so took a pic of it. My grandfather's (born the year Lincoln was shot, I knew him for 12 years before he went North). It's his steamer trunk, heavily varnished by me to preserve what was left of the stickckers....
> 
> View attachment 70793
> 
> 
> ..the favorite of which is this one, The White Star Line, you probably know as the line of the Titanic. This trunk is from that date. (Imagine, these bobbing up in the water off Halifax.). Bonus: my purple, laceless Jack Purcells.
> 
> View attachment 70795
> 
> 
> The trunk in the illustration earlier posted is for train travel. It's a mini-closet, and some years back one was standing unblemished near a stack of trash at the town dump. I took it. It's wonderful, basically made from a very thick paste board with metal cleats at the corners. I have restored it. Hangers and drawers and all sorts of stuff. I would have to go to an outbuilding, plus clean off bat sh** to photograph it, so nix for now on that.


My friend, your Grandfathers serves as one of the more fascinating historical texts that I have been introduced to. It is indeed a treasure. Thanks for sharing it with us.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70937


Would you look at the rolled cuff on those blue jeans? Now that is future growing room! LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70937


Fun! Late '40's - early '50's.



drpeter said:


> Since LNER stands for London North Eastern Railway, perhaps we can safely assume that the Scarborough referred to here is the coastal resort town in Yorkshire, and not Scarborough, NY (on the Hudson) or other similarly named towns in the US.
> 
> In any case, this is a gorgeous image, as FF points out. It reminds me of a magazine advert for travel to Bermuda which I saw as a child in Malaya and fell in love with. That one too showed a long sweep of beach with small buildings, but at twilight, with that lovely nacreous blue light one usually finds closer to the tropics, at the point where it is fading into dark. It had distant lights that seemed to twinkle on in the buildings on shore, and the dark blue of the ocean past the beach.
> 
> Eager as I was in those days to travel and see the world that I had only read about in books, I imagined what it would be like to be on that beach. And life did turn out well in that respect. I have travelled to so many countries, lived in several, learned the languages of other people and tried to understand their cultures. That is the ultimate education, and I speak as one who made a life in teaching and research. Sometimes the world contains blessings in disguise, and the pleasure of living is to discover these blessings and keep them in our memories, and close at hand in our hearts. It can well be our insurance against despair.
> 
> Good heavens, all that from an advert! Maybe there is a point to advertising...


An exceptionally fine piece of work by an illustrator, I think also. No doubt, a few artistic liberties with his subject as judging only from photos and cinema, the British seaside in reality resembles a tropical isle just a bit less. 

A beautifully written, and true, next to last paragraph. Though less travelled than you, what experience I have had has made be a different, and I think slightly better, fellow than I otherwise would have been.


----------



## Flanderian

Esky -


----------



## drpeter

Thank you, Flanderian, for your kind words.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Esky -
> 
> View attachment 71023


While I love the Ivy look of the late '50s / early '60s, I would be very happy to live in a world of Esquire / Apparel Arts men's style of the '30s and '40s. The'30s in particular is incredible broad minded about variation within the basic suit-shirt-tie construct in a way that later decades weren't.


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## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Thank you, Flanderian, for your kind words.


Quite welcome, and well earned IMHO.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> While I love the Ivy look of the late '50s / early '60s, I would be very happy to live in a world of Esquire / Apparel Arts men's style of the '30s and '40s. The'30s in particular is incredible broad minded about variation within the basic suit-shirt-tie construct in a way that later decades weren't.


Well put, and IMO, exactly true.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71043


I am unfamiliar with the Vintagel Dancer brand, but Trench coat designs won my sartorial heart many decades ago.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71043


Nice coats! 👍



eagle2250 said:


> I am unfamiliar with the Vintagel Dancer brand, but Trench coat designs won my sartorial heart many decades ago.


Me too.


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## Flanderian

Hart, Schaffner and Marx -


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Hart, Schaffner and Marx -
> 
> View attachment 71087


I like the patch pockets on this suit. Not something I'd wear to the office (back in the day when any of this mattered), but I still like the look.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> I like the patch pockets on this suit. Not something I'd wear to the office (back in the day when any of this mattered), but I still like the look.


It's an interesting issue. Perhaps counter intuitively, during the '50's and early '60's (The Ivy era.) office attire was often more relaxed in some details than it became in the '80's and later. Suits with patch pockets might certainly be worn, and sometimes even sport jackets. Think back to earlier episodes of Mad Men.


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> It's an interesting issue. Perhaps counter intuitively, during the '50's and early '60's (The Ivy era.) office attire was often more relaxed in some details than it became in the '80's and later. Suits with patch pockets might certainly be worn, and sometime even sport jackets. Think back to earlier episodes of Mad Men.


Agreed, there's plenty of historical evidence (movies, photos) in support of that. In finance, where I worked, it was pretty much gray or blue conservative suits, but other fields, especially creative ones like "Mad Men's" world of advertising, were more adventurous. So, some of my view/comments are skewed by where I worked.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71139


Manservant to His Nibs: "Well, sir, I think the injury is turning bad, it might even be turning septic. We'd better get you into hospital, we do not want to lose the foot."


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71139


It looks as though he is stealing the gentleman's shoes, as he sleeps in a chair! Oh-no....that just can't be good. LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71139


Beautiful illustration!



eagle2250 said:


> It looks as though he is stealing the gentleman's shoes, as he sleeps in a chair! Oh-no....that just can't be good. LOL.


He would have been in my old neighborhood!  (But only after he had lifted his keys and wallet. :devil


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## Flanderian

HSM -


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## Fading Fast

⇧ Suit's nice, but I want the car.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Suit's nice, but I want the car.


The lady, or the cobra?


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## Fading Fast

⇧ The top pic is more my speed, but I'd want it in another color like racing green.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ The top pic is more my speed, but I'd want it in another color like racing green.


Your wish, Sir! -










I believe the illustration is of an MGA, depicted above, judging from the cut lines of the hood, headlight and windscreen. It and the TR3 were the most common sports cars of my boyhood. But the MGA was the hallmark of Ivy cool!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71181


Great clothes and ad! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

HSM -


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Your wish, Sir! -
> 
> View attachment 71311
> 
> 
> I believe the illustration is of an MGA, depicted above, judging from the cut lines of the hood, headlight and windscreen. It and the TR3 were the most common sports cars of my boyhood. But the MGA was the hallmark of Ivy cool!


That's pretty close to perfect.



Flanderian said:


> HSM -
> 
> View attachment 71313


The suit and overcoat are both really nice.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm guessing '70s or early '80s Brooks catalogue.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> HSM -
> 
> View attachment 71313


I purchased and worn out more than a few HSM garments over the past three to four decades and I believe I even had an HSM sport coat or two, even further back, during my college years! Good stuff.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71343
> 
> I'm guessing '70s or early '80s Brooks catalogue.


The better Brooks! 👍



eagle2250 said:


> I purchased and worn out more than a few HSM garments over the past three to four decades and I believe I even had an HSM sport coat or two, even further back, during my college years! Good stuff.


+1! The stuff you wear to work. :loveyou:


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## Flanderian

HSM -


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

The overcoat and the suit jacket, side by side, appear to have lapels that are about the same size. I should have thought that overcoat lapels would be somewhat larger than those for a DB suit jacket, even for a single-breasted overcoat, and even in the old days when suit jackets sported very wide lapels.


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## eagle2250

My point of indecision focused on the wear of the gloves. In my world, if it is cold enough to justify wearing an overcoat, it is cold enough to justify wearing gloves. I have never felt comfortable pairing gloves with a suit jacket, unless the gloves were a component of a uniform.


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## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> My point of indecision focused on the wear of the gloves. In my world, if it is cold enough to justify wearing an overcoat, it is cold enough to justify wearing gloves. I have never felt comfortable pairing gloves with a suit jacket, unless the gloves were a component of a uniform.


For a business suit or blazer, I agree, but I've worn a Shaggy Dog sweater and heavy Tweed sport coat with gloves to run errands as the sweater and sport coat can be enough to keep you warm even in 40 degree weather, but your hands still get cold. It's a very tactical combo, but I refuse to wear a scarf with it as (not saying this is justified) to me that looks forced.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71437


Two dapper gents! 👍


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## Flanderian

HSM -


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## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> For a business suit or blazer, I agree, but I've worn a Shaggy Dog sweater and heavy Tweed sport coat with gloves to run errands as the sweater and sport coat can be enough to keep you warm even in 40 degree weather, but your hands still get cold. It's a very tactical combo, but I refuse to wear a scarf with it as (not saying this is justified) to me that looks forced.


Curious, Faders. I _like_ the look of a quality dress scarf (preferably wool or wool-and-silk with paisley or polka-dot patterns), paired with a regular-weight tweed jacket for cooler weather in the Fall (likely with no gloves). Add a flat cap, and you're good to go. I've always thought the combination quite elegant, and usually wear sportcoat and scarf during the October/November months. The possible colour, pattern and texture combinations offer a nice challenge to one's skill at putting together an effective ensemble.

I think the gloves and suit issue can be resolved, if you wish, by selecting the right pair of gloves. Personally, I feel that gloves made from a very thin, smooth leather of uniform color (not mottled or patterned) which fit snugly on one's hands can look quite nice, even with a suit or sports jacket. I have rarely tried this out, though, for a very simple reason: My hands are usually warm, and in any centrally heated environment, I don't need protection for my hands.


----------



## Donaker

These illustrations remind me so much of my childhood! I remember the fashion of the 60's very well from my parents' photos. It was amazing! Just now the trends of this era are very popular and I love them much more than those in the early 2000s. Recently I got into sewing, as I was inspired by some vintage clothing bloggers. Some of my dresses really turned out like pro! I`m also interested in oriental motifs in clothing. Found Hijab store and tried to sew something similar. I also bought some dresses from them. Very flamboyant!


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## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Curious, Faders. I _like_ the look of a quality dress scarf (preferably wool or wool-and-silk with paisley or polka-dot patterns), paired with a regular-weight tweed jacket for cooler weather in the Fall (likely with no gloves). Add a flat cap, and you're good to go. I've always thought the combination quite elegant, and usually wear sportcoat and scarf during the October/November months. The possible colour, pattern and texture combinations offer a nice challenge to one's skill at putting together an effective ensemble.
> 
> I think the gloves and suit issue can be resolved, if you wish, by selecting the right pair of gloves. Personally, I feel that gloves made from a very thin, smooth leather of uniform color (not mottled or patterned) which fit snugly on one's hands can look quite nice, even with a suit or sports jacket. I have rarely tried this out, though, for a very simple reason: My hands are usually warm, and in any centrally heated environment, I don't need protection for my hands.


Gloves and a convertble, the top on which is most always down, is a great pairing, even with just a Shetland.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Illustrator Leslie Saalburg, 1938

I purchased my first HS&M Gold Trumpter from a mens shop "On the Green" in Taunton, MA. in 1988. (I was really moving up from my Silver Trumpter Blazer!)


----------



## 127.72 MHz

One for the impending season.

Undated Hart Schaffner & Marx.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> Your wish, Sir! -
> 
> View attachment 71311
> 
> 
> I believe the illustration is of an MGA, depicted above, judging from the cut lines of the hood, headlight and windscreen. It and the TR3 were the most common sports cars of my boyhood. But the MGA was the hallmark of Ivy cool!


Even though I am, in most respects, an Anglophile, in matters automotive I long for the German counterpart.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71557


A revealing common place of the era by a master! 👍


----------



## Flanderian

HSM -


----------



## Flanderian

A


Vecchio Vespa said:


> Even though I am, in most respects, an Anglophile, in matters automotive I long for the German counterpart.
> 
> View attachment 71573


50+ years ago a friend and former professional go-kart driver acquired a somewhat bedraggled white 356 Cabriolet Speedster. Disregarding its resemblance to an upside down bathtub, he and a suitably anesthetized yours truly, flashed about the German countryside performing various nefarious quests!

:devil:


----------



## Flanderian

With the delightful, whimsical illustrations of Mr. Slowboy occasionally appearing in this thread, I thought this might be of interest.










http://tweedlandthegentlemansclub.blogspot.com/2021/12/slowboy-portraits-of-modern-gentleman.html


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## Fading Fast

⇧ Fun and well done.


----------



## Fading Fast

View attachment 71633


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Appearing as a draft or study, though it may be a finished piece done in partial monochrome, a John Leyendecker painting starring a mirror and co-starring a back-to gent in summer duds. What a mirror, 200 pounds probably, mahogany with ormolu braid. We should all have one of those. Imagine though how rotten this would look if the gent tieing his tie was aiming a cell phone at his reflection, a nasty, lazy way of doing a self portrait that the internet age seems to encourage.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71635


Frank, is that you!? 😆


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> HSM -
> 
> View attachment 71577


Can't help but wonder what he did with his Irish Setter ( see post #541).


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## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Frank, is that you!? 😆


A strong echo at minimum.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 71649


Sans the tie, I wore a version of this for "business casual" quite often.


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## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71711


Beautiful illustration, elegant clothing! 👍



Fading Fast said:


> Sans the tie, I wore a version of this for "business casual" quite often.


And was the best dressed man in the room, no doubt!


----------



## Flanderian

\


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ This one has a echo of Bing .


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ This one has a echo of Bing .


Most definitely!

Der Bingle!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Leyendecker, a study. Note how the part in the hair changes.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Leyendecker, a study. Note how the part in the hair changes.
> 
> View attachment 71801


So noted. Leyendecker may have done this study at a time when the parting in men's hair had moved from the side to the center ( or vice versa ).

When I was growing up in Malaya and India (1950s-60s), the center parting was fairly common. Wavy hair was also considered attractive along with pencil mustaches, and many men used hair oil or Brylcreem. David Niven, an actor I was always quite fond of, was the epitome of this look, although his parting was mostly on the side. And in fact, my cricket coach in school was a dead ringer for Niven -- he probably made a conscious attempt to wear his hair and mustache to imitate the Niven look.

A funny label from WWII: the very young fliers in the RAF, piloting Spitfires and Lancaster bombers, were often called the Brylcreem Boys. Anyway, here is Niven:


----------



## Peak and Pine

Got staring at the Leyendecker again, the one posted earlier, man putting on his sock garters, this...










...and what I thought were lines applied by the seller of this print, to impede a clean download, are actually grid lines put there by Leyendeker himself. An aid to the perfection of composition I presume, showing how little I knew about this, thinking he just grabbed a brush and went willy nilly. Nay, this is like an architect's rendering. Amazing, to me.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Got staring at the Leyendecker again, the one posted earlier, man putting on his sock garters, this...
> 
> View attachment 71819
> 
> 
> ...and what I thought were lines applied by the seller of this print, to impede a clean download, are actually grid lines put there by Leyendeker himself. An aid to the perfection of composition I presume, showing how little I knew about this, thinking he just grabbed a brush and went willy nilly. Nay, this is like an architect's rendering. Amazing, to me.


Reminds me of the pin-and-string methods used by Dutch painters in the seventeenth century and later to achieve precise perspectives using vanishing points, convergence, etc. These techniques were supposedly used by Johannes Vermeer, although there is no strong evidence that he used grid lines. I believe one or two of his paintings have pinholes in the canvas, which suggest the possibility that pins and string could have been used to create perspective lines for using geometrical projections (I saw a lot of his lovely paintings when I lived in Holland). He could also have used a camera obscura to achieve similar results.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> So noted. Leyendecker may have done this study at a time when the parting in men's hair had moved from the side to the center ( or vice versa ).
> 
> When I was growing up in Malaya and India (1950s-60s), the center parting was fairly common. Wavy hair was also considered attractive along with pencil mustaches, and many men used hair oil or Brylcreem. David Niven, an actor I was always quite fond of, was the epitome of this look, although his parting was mostly on the side. And in fact, my cricket coach in school was a dead ringer for Niven -- he probably made a conscious attempt to wear his hair and mustache to imitate the Niven look.
> 
> A funny label from WWII: the very young fliers in the RAF, piloting Spitfires and Lancaster bombers, were often called the Brylcreem Boys. Anyway, here is Niven:
> 
> View attachment 71803


Brylcreem was the commonality of my later boyhood, as it was of most of my contemporaries. (A little dab will do 'ya!😁) I had a head of thick, straight, blue/black hair which when poorly barbered (The unfortunate norm in my milieu.) assumed a life of its own. And this unctuous concoction was successful at subduing it. In later adolescence it was displaced by lower viscosity Vitalis.

Wistful memories now, as headgear is necessary to protect onlookers from the glare emanating from my scalp!


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71793


Great illustration! 👍


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Love its Art Deco-ness.


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Brylcreem was the commonality of my later boyhood, as it was of most of my contemporaries. (A little dab will do 'ya!😁) I had a head of thick, straight, blue/black hair which when poorly barbered (The unfortunate norm in my milieu.) assumed a life of its own. And this unctuous concoction was successful at subduing it. In later adolescence it was displaced by lower viscosity Vitalis.
> 
> Wistful memories now, as headgear is necessary to protect onlookers from the glare emanating from my scalp!


Did you use hair spray too?


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Did you use hair spray too?


Who!?

Ladies used hairspray. *Real* men used Brylcreem! irate:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> Who!?
> 
> Ladies used hairspray. *Real* men used Brylcreem! irate:


Didn't they use that in The 1950's?


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> Who!?
> 
> Ladies used hairspray. *Real* men used Brylcreem! irate:


Brylcream, "a little dad will do ya. Use more, only if you dare...." However, truth be known, we real men used Vitalis! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> "a little dad will do ya...


I've always been fond of little dads, LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> Brylcreem was the commonality of my later boyhood, as it was of most of my contemporaries. (A little dab will do 'ya!😁) I had a head of thick, straight, blue/black hair which when poorly barbered (The unfortunate norm in my milieu.) assumed a life of its own. And this unctuous concoction was successful at subduing it. In later adolescence it was displaced by lower viscosity Vitalis.
> 
> Wistful memories now, as headgear is necessary to protect onlookers from the glare emanating from my scalp!


Brylcreem or Vitalis was necessary to the slicked straight back look of investment bankers in the early eighties, paired, of course, with Gucci bit loafers, an impeccable dark suit, a blue or pink shirt with a white spread collar, garish braces, and an Hermes tie. That whole look just made you feel confident.


----------



## drpeter

Vecchio Vespa said:


> That whole look just made you feel confident


The Gordon Gekko Look, perhaps?


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Brylcreem or Vitalis was necessary to the slicked straight back look of investment bankers in the early eighties, paired, of course, with Gucci bit loafers, an impeccable dark suit, a blue or pink shirt with a white spread collar, garish braces, and an Hermes tie. That whole look just made you feel confident.


Let's see how I stacked up - by that time I was 30 years past the Brylcreem era of my youth. Never an investment banker. Gucci bit loafer, or Gucci loafers of any kind with a suit!?  Hey, I still like blue and pink shirts with white spread collars, (Or without) though I never get to wear them anymore. Garish braces!? Them's fightin' words! Certainly not; interesting, beautiful and well coordinated braces! 😁

Hermes ties? :icon_scratch: Always were a boring waste of opportunity IMHO.


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts, '30's, but don't know issue -


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Brylcream, "a little dad will do ya. Use more, only if you dare...." However, truth be known, we real men used Vitalis! LOL.


Isn't that the stuff that came in a bottle?


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Apparel Arts, '30's, but don't know issue -
> 
> View attachment 71943


Just wonderful clothes and wonderful artwork.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71949


There must've have been a murder going on here in this picture.


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> Isn't that the stuff that came in a bottle?


Yup!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71949


Oh no! The Khaki clad gentleman's friend just slipped in his hair grease, hitting his head and knocking himself out What to do, what to do?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Oh no! The Khaki clad gentleman's friend just slipped in his hair grease, hitting his head and knocking himself out What to do, what to do?


Clearly, a lot of stories could be built around this one, but I also like the way the clothes were illustrated. Love the white bucks with the khaki suit.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Oh no! The Khaki clad gentleman's friend just slipped in his hair grease, hitting his head and knocking himself out What to do, what to do?


Just saw how much the pair of shoes he liked cost! 



Fading Fast said:


> Clearly, a lot of stories could be built around this one, but I also like the way the clothes were illustrated. Love the white bucks with the khaki suit.


👍


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts 1934 in the raw -


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 72089


Great evocative ad! Wonderful art work. :loveyou:


----------



## Flanderian

From Apparel Arts -


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I love those Apparel Art illustrations. If they had dialogue boxes over their heads, I imagine their conversation would go something like this:

"Life if perfect."
"Yes it is."


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Pouvons-nous esperer a la vie au grand air, mes gentilhommes distingués?


----------



## Flanderian

Massaged individual figures from a '30's Esky montage. Believe it or not, these are preppies, I.e., high schoolers. Look a lot like your kids? 😆


----------



## Howard

drpeter said:


> Pouvons-nous esperer a la vie au grand air, mes gentilhommes distingués?


I didn't know you spoke French?


----------



## drpeter

Howard said:


> I didn't know you spoke French?


Ah, Howard, there are so many things you do not know about me, LOL. Just kidding. But how well do we know anyone, even those closest to us? It's a favourite trope among mystery writers -- someone lives with their spouse for donkey's ears, then the spouse dies or disappears, and the one left alive discovers the double life led by their beloved partner! Double agent for the Chinese espionage bureau, currency criminal, international white slave trader (female and male), mercenary, forger of Flemish paintings, body double for the pope, gun runner in Africa, fomenter of regime overthrow in far lands...the list is only limited by one's imagination.

To get back to your question: I read French much better than I speak it because I have never lived in a Francophone country -- but I have studied French. I do speak Spanish better because I have lived in South America. I was brought up bilingual (English and Malayalam, a South Indian language) in British Malaya. And living in India, I picked up Hindi/Urdu, plus some Tamil (another South Indian language similar to Malayalam). Some of these languages I can only speak (Tamil, Urdu), but the others I can read, write and speak. I have a flair for languages and love learning them. Mathematics (in which I majored while at university) could also be considered a second language.

Let me hasten to add: _None of this is unusual for most people in the world_. Americans tend to believe (wrongly, I suspect) that it is a sign of great ability to be able to speak more than one language, but a lot of people do so because of necessity and proximity to linguistic groups other than their own. Here in our country, we are pretty monolingual and only speak American -- so it is understandable that they think second or third languages unusual. Go to Europe and you'll find that most folks know multiple languages.

The British actor and comedian Eddie Izzard once joked about the English who think more than one language would lead to calamity ("Good God, man, two languages in one head?") while stating that the Dutch speak four languages effortlessly and smoke marijuana to boot.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 72361


Ah, Zippo, the pride of Bradford PA. The windproof lighter. A really snazzy gift was a gold plated one with your initials. Suave!  That and your soft pack of coffin nails, and you were good to go. The serviceman's friend. The USAF helped fund our addiction, $3.00 a *carton! *About 80 guys on my flight, and the only one who didn't smoke was Mormon Jim. (Clever nickname resulted from the fact that he was a Mormon. )


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Ah, Zippo, the pride of Bradford PA. The windproof lighter. A really snazzy gift was a gold plated one with your initials. Suave!  That and your soft pack of coffin nails, and you were good to go. The serviceman's friend. The USAF helped fund our addiction, $3.00 a *carton! *About 80 guys on my flight, and the only one who didn't smoke was Mormon Jim. (Clever nickname resulted from the fact that he was a Mormon. )


LOL, Flanders, perhaps Mormon Jim had the last laugh, as they say...I'm very glad I gave up the habit 34 years ago.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> LOL, Flanders, perhaps Mormon Jim had the last laugh, as they say...I'm very glad I gave up the habit 34 years ago.


As a child, I grew up around adults who smoked...I hated the stink and the dirt associated with the habit, thank gawd. I have yet to take my first puff and am absolutely sure that's never going to happen. If it has a positive impact on my health......yahoo!


----------



## Fading Fast

Flanderian said:


> Ah, Zippo, the pride of Bradford PA. The windproof lighter. A really snazzy gift was a gold plated one with your initials. Suave!  That and your soft pack of coffin nails, and you were good to go. The serviceman's friend. The USAF helped fund our addiction, $3.00 a *carton! *About 80 guys on my flight, and the only one who didn't smoke was Mormon Jim. (Clever nickname resulted from the fact that he was a Mormon. )


Really glad you quit as well - we can't afford to lose the world's greatest curator of Apparel Arts / Esquire photos and, more importantly, a friend.

Those Zippo lighters and cigarette lighters in general are cool; it's a shame they were part of such a bad habit. I'm not a collector of things, but were I, old lighters would be something I could see myself getting excited about.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> As a child, I grew up around adults who smoked...I hated the stink and the dirt associated with the habit, thank gawd. I have yet to take my first puff and am absolutely sure that's never going to happen. If it has a positive impact on my health......yahoo!


I had the exact same experience - I've always hated the smell and filth that came with it. I can still remember, as a kid, my mom and me doing a deep clean of the house after my dad quit in the '70s. It was incredible the "coating" smoke left on so many things ("Wow, who knew the frame of the hall mirror was really that color?"). My mom and I deep cleaned, threw some things out and painting a lot and the house looked and smell so much better.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I enjoy no more than a handful of cigars annually, sometimes only on July 4 and Thanksgiving. They are always reasonably good ones, favorites including Partagas, Upmann, Cohiba, and R&J. I smoke them on the deck. I do not subscribe to pairing them with liquor of any sort, simply savoring the smoke. It is always a lovely respite, especially if sitting by the fire pit.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I had the exact same experience - I've always hated the smell and filth that came with it. I can still remember, as a kid, my mom and me doing a deep clean of the house after my dad quit in the '70s. It was incredible the "coating" smoke left on so many things ("Wow, who knew the frame of the hall mirror was really that color?"). My mom and I deep cleaned, threw some things out and painting a lot and the house looked and smell so much better.


Reminds me of the _Bruine_ cafes in Amsterdam. These places dated back to the seventeenth century and they had wood-panelled walls that had become a mahogany brown from a couple of centuries of smoke (pipes, cigars, cigarettes). These days, smoking is either banned in those places, or there is a separate section set aside for smokers.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> LOL, Flanders, perhaps Mormon Jim had the last laugh, as they say...I'm very glad I gave up the habit 34 years ago.


No doubt!

39 years and counting for me.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> Really glad you quit as well - we can't afford to lose the world's greatest curator of Apparel Arts / Esquire photos and, more importantly, a friend.
> 
> Those Zippo lighters and cigarette lighters in general are cool; it's a shame they were part of such a bad habit. I'm not a collector of things, but were I, old lighters would be something I could see myself getting excited about.


In my youth, it was part of the culture. MD's recommended them in print ads, newsmen on TV smoked during broadcasts. In France, you were not allowed to enter the country without a pack of Gauloises Caporal in your pocket.

But as Mr. Vespa alluded, cigarettes were just a bad habit, whereas enjoying a fine cigar was a pleasure. (But for which we are also cognizant of the risks entailed.)


----------



## Flanderian

Esky ad art May '36 -


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> As a child, I grew up around adults who smoked...I hated the stink and the dirt associated with the habit, thank gawd. I have yet to take my first puff and am absolutely sure that's never going to happen. If it has a positive impact on my health......yahoo!


I grew up with My Father when he smoked but then he stopped over 40 years ago and now he has use his inhaler to breathe.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> I had the exact same experience - I've always hated the smell and filth that came with it. I can still remember, as a kid, my mom and me doing a deep clean of the house after my dad quit in the '70s. It was incredible the "coating" smoke left on so many things ("Wow, who knew the frame of the hall mirror was really that color?"). My mom and I deep cleaned, threw some things out and painting a lot and the house looked and smell so much better.


My Father smoked and as well as My Mother too back during the late 70's.


----------



## Howard

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I enjoy no more than a handful of cigars annually, sometimes only on July 4 and Thanksgiving. They are always reasonably good ones, favorites including Partagas, Upmann, Cohiba, and R&J. I smoke them on the deck. I do not subscribe to pairing them with liquor of any sort, simply savoring the smoke. It is always a lovely respite, especially if sitting by the fire pit.











Kramer loves a good pipe.


----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> No doubt!
> 
> 39 years and counting for me.


35 years for My Father.


----------



## eagle2250

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I enjoy no more than a handful of cigars annually, sometimes only on July 4 and Thanksgiving. They are always reasonably good ones, favorites including Partagas, Upmann, Cohiba, and R&J. I smoke them on the deck. I do not subscribe to pairing them with liquor of any sort, simply savoring the smoke. It is always a lovely respite, especially if sitting by the fire pit.





Flanderian said:


> In my youth, it was part of the culture. MD's recommended them in print ads, newsmen on TV smoked during broadcasts. In France, you were not allowed to enter the country without a pack of Gauloises Caporal in your pocket.
> 
> But as Mr. Vespa alluded, cigarettes were just a bad habit, whereas enjoying a fine cigar was a pleasure. (But for which we are also cognizant of the risks entailed.)


As previously stated I am not and have never been a practitioner of the habit, but I also want to note that I support every individuals right to make their own choices. Over the years we have entertained guests in our home who smoked. I have always graciously asked that they do so outside of the home and most have just as graciously complied. A few became indignant, but those who have done so have been the rare exceptions.


----------



## Flanderian

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 72425


Charming and entertaining in every regard! 👍👍👍



eagle2250 said:


> As previously stated I am not and have never been a practitioner of the habit, but I also want to note that I support every individuals right to make their own choices. Over the years we have entertained guests in our home who smoked. I have always graciously asked that they do so outside of the home and most have just as graciously complied. A few became indignant, but those who have done so have been the rare exceptions.


A wise man! :icon_hailthee:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> As previously stated I am not and have never been a practitioner of the habit, but I also want to note that I support every individuals right to make their own choices. Over the years we have entertained guests in our home who smoked. I have always graciously asked that they do so outside of the home and most have just as graciously complied. A few became indignant, but those who have done so have been the rare exceptions.


Growing up in my household, My Father always used an ashtray when he smoked or else he would get the ashes on our brown carpet and My Mother wouldn't like that.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian

For any whom it might interest, note storm coat on figure at left. This once a fixture of winter wear for men in colder climates when not dressed for business.


----------



## Flanderian

HSM -


----------



## Peak and Pine

Leyendecker...


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> HSM -
> 
> View attachment 73221


Given all the HSM suits I bought and wore out over the years, I can't recall ever garnering that much attention on any one outing, Hmmn.....


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Given all the HSM suits I bought and wore out over the years, I can't recall ever garnering that much attention on any one outing, Hmmn.....


But then you're not Andy Griffith! And at second blush, I wonder what's going on here? :icon_scratch: Are these gals smiling or smirking? And why are some folks cringing? 😆


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

An impeccably attired gentleman from the pen of the man who invented Santa, Morristown, New Jersey's own Thomas Nast.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> But then you're not Andy Griffith! And at second blush, I wonder what's going on here? :icon_scratch: Are these gals smiling or smirking? And why are some folks cringing? 😆


I suspect that the gals are smiling, but the one guy watching is smirking, as he says to himself, "what;s that jackalope got going for him that I don't have?" LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Choices -


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts -


----------



## drpeter

A far cry from the current fashions popular at the university -- a haze of blue denim, hoodies and cotton flannel.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> A far cry from the current fashions popular at the university -- a haze of blue denim, hoodies and cotton flannel.


While it's a truism that clothing styles have been evolving to the ever more casual end of the spectrum, despite episodic reactions to the contrary, and we will ultimately be returned to loin cloths just in time to enjoy the full fruits of global warming, I have the half-baked hypothesis that different generations function as tribes within broader society. And each such tribe has its uniform of what is required and what is proscribed. Adherence to these sartorial norms signify membership in the tribe thereby gaining protection from it, whereas deviation represents that the individual is a threat to the tribe, or at the least, suspect.

By comparison one benefit of being elderly is that one becomes less threatening. No one really cares very much what one wears. If it's deemed odd, well, old people tend to be odd. Eccentric? How delightful! Comical? The aged are a comedic trope. Being one's own sartorial self becomes much easier.


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts, Spring '37 -


----------



## Peak and Pine

From above...

_...one benefit of being elderly is that one becomes less threatening. No one really cares very much what one wears. If it's deemed odd, well, old people tend to be odd. Eccentric? How delightful! Comical? The aged are a comedic trope. Being one's own sartorial self becomes much easier. _

I quibble mightily with that. First hand knowledge, I am old. I am not giving up. I am not a laughing stock, and encourage all others post 60 to take that pledge.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> A far cry from the current fashions popular at the university -- a haze of blue denim, hoodies and cotton flannel.


Even back in the late 1960's we didn't dress like is pictured in the illustration at Penn State... Although you did see a whole lot of OCBD's and Khakis on campus. LOL.


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts December '31 -


----------



## Flanderian

From what I've been able to determine, every fashion plate that appeared in vintage Esquire, also appeared in Apparel Arts. But not all fashion plates from Apparel Arts made it to Esquire. I'm uncertain if the following illustration also appeared in Esquire.


----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts -


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 74063


Great photo!

Thanks! 👍


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian

Scanned pages of Apparel Arts. Sorry, don't know year or issue. Plate on right was reused subsequently in Esquire, the one on left, I believe, wasn't.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 74157
> 
> View attachment 74159
> 
> View attachment 74161
> 
> View attachment 74163
> 
> View attachment 74165
> 
> View attachment 74167
> 
> View attachment 74169


I've got several editions of all the Holmes stories and the four novels, including the one that reproduces the typography and illustrations from the Strand magazine originals where they first appeared. They are all treasured.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian

Chipp, early to mid '70's. Nice illustration, but the illustrator took some liberties in making the Chipp cut more attuned to the fashions of the era than it actually was. Gorgeous tartans are all in place however, and the cloth of surpassing quality.


----------



## Peak and Pine

This pair looks really excited about them farmer fashions...










...silently hoping to be chosen next, the new Mr. 1938...


----------



## xcubbies

Looks like a 3" cuff on those overalls. Will they tailor them to the 2.5" that I prefer?


----------



## drpeter

I think they are simply folded up, not stitched in. 

Now, you really would find those overalls useful? Perhaps you have a farm where you work during the weekends, or even full time. It could be a collectible, though. Last year, I found a gorgeous pair of overalls made out of thick charcoal wool with a red overpane, and I bought it (twenty bucks, it was a curiosity). I'll likely never wear them...My friends have often made the suggestion that I'm slightly off my rocker, LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## drpeter

Peaks, I take it these are some of the illustrious former members of AAAC. I imagine they have faded away, like old soldiers.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> Peaks, I take it these are some of the illustrious former members of AAAC. I imagine they have *faded* away, like old soldiers.


Ssshhhhh. He's being held hostage you know. Let's not spook the captors.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

Leyendecker, 1932, adopting a far less severe style than in his advertising illustrations.










Leyendecker-esque. Hart, Shaffner and Marx. 1916...


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## DCR

I wonder where in Boston they were located?


----------



## Flanderian

Another peek into Apparel Arts Summer '34 -


----------



## Charles Dana

DCR said:


> I wonder where in Boston they were located?


In the 1930s, Rogers Peet was at 104 Tremont Street at Bromfield.


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts -


----------



## Flanderian

Good habits via Apparel Arts -


----------



## drpeter

Flanders, are these images from your personal copies of Apparel Arts?


----------



## paxonus

Not sure if this has been posted previously, but this looks like the definitive guide to Apparel Arts illustrations

https://apparelartsillustrations.weebly.com/


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Flanders, are these images from your personal copies of Apparel Arts?


No, they're random images I've collected on-line through the years. I haven't any hard copies.



paxonus said:


> Not sure if this has been posted previously, but this looks like the definitive guide to Apparel Arts illustrations
> 
> https://apparelartsillustrations.weebly.com/


Not much out there on the illustrators, this is where I've gotten most of my information about them. 👍


----------



## Flanderian

School daze! Looks just like *your* high school kids! 😆

From Apparel Arts, 1930's.


----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> School daze! Look just like *your* high school kids! 😆
> 
> View attachment 74859


Other than perhaps yearbook picture day at my school, most of us were hillbillies and just didn't dress that well. LOL!


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts fall '37 -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts 1932 -


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts, Theory and practice -


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts -


----------



## Flanderian

Apparel Arts. Possibly from the Gruppo GFT republication -


----------



## drpeter

Nice image. I especially like the way the artist has used green and yellow in painting the landscape outside the building, seen through the door and window.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Nice image. I especially like the way the artist has used green and yellow in painting the landscape outside the building, seen through the door and window.


It is a lovely scene, but that outfit would by comparison make Al Czervik look staid.


----------



## drpeter

In spite of having heard about the film (but never seen it), I had no idea who Czervik was, LOL, until I looked him up. But I have always liked Rodney Dangerfield and his "I get no respect" one-liners, complete with that tugging on his giant tie knot. One of his laments: "I was so ugly when I was born, my mother asked her doctor to please send me back."


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Nice image. I especially like the way the artist has used green and yellow in painting the landscape outside the building, seen through the door and window.


I believe the illustrator may have been George B. Shepherd.



Vecchio Vespa said:


> It is a lovely scene, but that outfit would by comparison make Al Czervik look staid.


I suspect it's beach wear. Odd to the contemporary eye, but I've seen similar outfits worn as such during the era.


----------



## Flanderian

Another by Shepherd I believe -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## 215339

This one feels like it's out of an AA catalog. I'm awfully tempted to get it.


----------



## eagle2250

delicious_scent said:


> This one feels like it's out of an AA catalog. I'm awfully tempted to get it.


Clearly the coat pictured has a history, as well as a whole lot of future potential! Good luck in your hunt.


----------



## Peak and Pine

They're looking at zooming babies. It was the 50s.Today we put them in carriages.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian

delicious_scent said:


> This one feels like it's out of an AA catalog. I'm awfully tempted to get it.


Very interesting garment!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## 215339

eagle2250 said:


> Clearly the coat pictured has a history, as well as a whole lot of future potential! Good luck in your hunt.


Thanks Eagle, I appreciate the good luck. The mottled fabric is very enticing to me.


Flanderian said:


> Very interesting garment!


For sure. I do wonder if it's possible for a raglan coat to be TOO big. In my head, these are fairly sizing agnostic compared to a tailored coat.


----------



## Howard

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 75553


Is he on a Fox Hunt?


----------



## Oviatt

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 75483


Poirot's younger--and thinner--brother?


----------



## Peak and Pine

delicious_scent said:


> For sure. I do wonder if it's possible for a raglan coat to be TOO big. In my head, these are fairly sizing agnostic compared to a tailored coat.


Have you ever owned a raglan? And do you plan on chopping a lotta wood any time soon?

You see, you may be overlooking the purpose of the raglan, it's for ease of arm movement, very handy, especially when jumping off tall buildings, they flap real nice. Now it's my opinion and mine only, and I own raglans, that they don't look all they swell when not jumping frantically up and down. They essentially have no shoulder and if you are not blessed with having strong ones yourself, then everything droops right and left.

There is something called a half raglan, and these I prefer. And own. One side of the fore and aft dimension is set in, the other is raglan. Cannot remember which, think it's the back that's raglan.

Dajavu is now rolling in here like the fog, I believe you and I have had this discussion before, no? Like for years now.


----------



## 215339

Peak and Pine said:


> Have you ever owned a raglan? And do you plan on chopping a lotta wood any time soon?
> 
> You see, you may be overlooking the purpose of the raglan, it's for ease of arm movement, very handy, especially when jumping off tall buildings, they flap real nice. Now it's my opinion and mine only, and I own raglans, that they don't look all they swell when not jumping frantically up and down. They essentially have no shoulder and if you are not blessed with having strong ones yourself, then everything droops right and left.
> 
> There is something called a half raglan, and these I prefer. And own. One side of the fore and aft dimension is set in, the other is raglan. Cannot remember which, think it's the back that's raglan.
> 
> Dajavu is now rolling in here like the fog, I believe you and I have had this discussion before, no? Like for years now.


Yep, I own two! They are not quite as roomy as this one though, but still roomy.

We definitely have had this conversation before, I wanted to clarify how roomy one can get when buying a raglan before it starts looking ridiculous. This one has a full chest of about 49-50", and mine is 38".

Yeah I understand the less than desirable silhouette from having narrow shoulders and an A-line. The droopy look is exactly what appeals for me.

You're right on the half-raglan, the front is set-in, the back is raglan.


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> Poirot's younger--and thinner--brother?


Yes, Iphicles Poirot.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

For the man who kept in shape...









And the ones who didn't..


----------



## Peak and Pine

*1963*










...would look very elegant today. Minus the skinny tie, cigarillo and dirty finger nails.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Leyendecker...


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

Only the last guy saw the light, threw away the smokes.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

Crack that knee a little more to the right and whoosh, off goes the blonde guy's tiny head.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Leyendecker...


----------



## Peak and Pine

^^
Quite different from much of Leyendecker. This is a full bore large painting with tons of action. Everything's in motion, arms and legs and, particularly, the water.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

This page is laden with conflict, things I miss and yet things I should not miss because of the inequities and disparities they evidence.


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> This page is laden with conflict, things I miss and yet things I should not miss because of the inequities and disparities they evidence.


Golf?


----------



## drpeter

Vecchio Vespa said:


> This page is laden with conflict, things I miss and yet things I should not miss because of the inequities and disparities they evidence.


It's one of those things that seems to be almost fully absent from the discussions in this forum -- the nature of those inequities and disparities, which can be uncomfortable. But the general world and the culture we live in is beginning to engage in those conversations. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. As someone who is deeply familiar with such inequities in multiple cultures and societies, I am not too optimistic that things will get better. I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Charles Dana

Vecchio Vespa said:


> This page is laden with conflict, things I miss and yet things I should not miss because of the inequities and disparities they evidence.


Astute observation. I, too, am aware of the often uncomfortable history lessons that a lot of these old advertisements tacitly teach. They tend to show us an idealized slice of a rarefied society. And yet: those wonderful clothes!

I resolve my feelings by reminding myself as follows: "It's all about the clothes here. Focus on the clothes, Dana. Those advertisements are relics. Extract whatever sartorial goodness you can get from them and leave their husks behind. There are plenty of other websites (and other media) that will be happy to give you all the news and commentary you can take about 'inequity' and 'disparity.' You come to Ask Andy for a respite from all that deep stuff."

And I will continue to enjoy this thread as long as we stay on the subject of clothes.


----------



## ksinc

I have realized all my 'watched threads' were started by Flanderian.


----------



## Flanderian

Charles Dana said:


> Astute observation. I, too, am aware of the often uncomfortable history lessons that a lot of these old advertisements tacitly teach. They tend to show us an idealized slice of a rarefied society. And yet: those wonderful clothes!
> 
> I resolve my feelings by reminding myself as follows: "It's all about the clothes here. Focus on the clothes, Dana. Those advertisements are relics. Extract whatever sartorial goodness you can get from them and leave their husks behind. There are plenty of other websites (and other media) that will be happy to give you all the news and commentary you can take about 'inequity' and 'disparity.' You come to Ask Andy for a respite from all that deep stuff."
> 
> And I will continue to enjoy this thread as long as we stay on the subject of clothes.


Not only is the milieu idealized, but largely fictional, existing mostly in films and publications where it served as both aspiration and escapist entertainment. It's no accident that the highest style was created and promulgated during the Great Depression where the public at large sought escape from the often grim reality of their lives and encouragement for material improvement. And contemporary versions, both international and regional, serve exactly those same functions in poorer countries around the world today.

As such, not only is depicting high style not ignoble, but elevating. Offering standards of aesthetics and taste inherent in which are principles that can lead to a broadened outlook and more refined view of the world, and an enjoyment of the intrinsic value of fine things of themselves.

School daze -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Oviatt

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 76853
> 
> View attachment 76855
> 
> View attachment 76857


What is that Stetson ad doing among the other two? Ready made bow ties? Mermaid n Wolf? Which of these is not like the other? (All fab, though).


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 77733
> 
> 
> View attachment 77735


Very interesting, as always. Images #13 and 14 appear to be a precursor of the fabled Eisenhower Jackets issued by the US military services.


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Very interesting, as always. Images #13 and 14 appear to be a precursor of the fabled Eisenhower Jackets issued by the US military services.


They do indeed! I've seen photos and illustrations of similar jackets from the '30's & '40's. My father had an old leather jacket with similar styling elements made from *true* Chamois hide. Beautiful stuff! But he thought the jacket was trash because it was older and only wore it to do dirty jobs! 😭

Obviously, my father wasn't my sartorial inspiration.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

George B Shepherd -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## 215339

From inspiration to reality





































It feels very "Wet Bandits" from Home Alone, a movie I watched growing up. Definitely not a sexy or flattering coat, but it is fun and I love the silhouette.


----------



## Howard

delicious_scent said:


> From inspiration to reality
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It feels very "Wet Bandits" from Home Alone, a movie I watched growing up. Definitely not a sexy or flattering coat, but it is fun and I love the silhouette.


Delicious, why is your face blurred?


----------



## 215339

Howard said:


> Delicious, why is your face blurred?


Hey Howard! I blurred it for anonymity.

The other alternative is cropping the head, but I find this doesn't give the complete silhouette in a picture. I've done both though.


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> Delicious, why is your face blurred?


*YOWZER! irate:*

Good stuff.


----------



## Flanderian

delicious_scent said:


> Hey Howard! I blurred it for anonymity.
> 
> The other alternative is cropping the head, but I find this doesn't give the complete silhouette in a picture. I've done both though.


I thought it might be a new way of wearing a beard.


----------



## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> Hey Howard! I blurred it for anonymity.
> 
> The other alternative is cropping the head, but I find this doesn't give the complete silhouette in a picture. I've done both though.


So, is the coat you are wearing an Alligator?


----------



## 215339

drpeter said:


> So, is the coat you are wearing an Alligator?


Nope, not Alligator, but the styling and details definitely reminded me of the old Alligator ad, and other illustrations posted in this thread.

The description from the seller describes it as being made by "Michaels-Stern" for "Blach's of Birmingham, AL."

I found a history of the company here.

https://rbscp.lib.rochester.edu/finding-aids/D117
I still find it amazing in what great conditions these old wool coats are in. The seller claims it's from either the '40s or '50s. That makes it older than my dad, but a bit younger than my grandma. Feels like finding an old treasure.

Part of the excitement is imagining who might have worn this and what adventures it has been through.

Can't find a fabric or fit these days in most ready to wear. I will have to get used to wearing this coat though, as I do for any piece of outerwear that is out of the current norm.










I also have a Schott peacoat that I bought as a university freshman that I stuffed into my backpack and wore daily throughout the early years. It brought a smile to my face yesterday when I still fit into it just fine. @Flanderian was the one who recommended it to me.

https://www.askandyaboutclothes.com...e-do-i-get-a-nice-peacoat.139072/post-1430552
Just like that, 8 or 9 years have gone by!


----------



## Flanderian

Brooks goes to war -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Howard

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 78437


And Eve?


----------



## Flanderian

Howard said:


> And Eve?


Sorry, Howard, ya gotta find your own Eve!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 78525


A stylish and warm sweater for almost every occasion. The one in the upper right corner of the photo particularly intrigues me...it almost has the appearance of a Woolrich Buffalo Check jacket.


----------



## Flanderian

While yachting -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> While yachting -
> 
> View attachment 78905


He looks sharp, sharp enough to hook up with Lacy, but can he hang on to beat Judge Smails on the golf course?


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> He looks sharp, sharp enough to hook up with Lacy, but can he hang on to beat Judge Smails on the golf course?


Well done! :icon_hailthee:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## ran23

I really got to pull off a Winter White outfit before winter is over.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## 215339

An actual "Alligator" coat from the 1960s. It has that interesting shoulder construction of looking like set-in sleeves from the front, and is raglan at the back.


----------



## 215339

I'm also curious as to why coat seams are constructed like this. I've seen them a lot on old Ivy coats and it looks like a very nice detail that adds to the finish of a coat. Also curious as to the idea behind adding a lining to the vent alongside a 1/4 lining.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Fini.

Gone fishin'!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

"When I suggested we go shoot some birdies, that's not exactly what I had in mind."


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

Genius in isolation--Leyendecker detail.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^
Bravo. Thnx.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 84614


I've never owned a pair of classic spectator shoes. The closest I have come is a pair of shoes with dark and slightly less dark leathers combined in the same shoe - dark brown toecaps and saddles, with the rest of the shoe in somewhat lighter brown. I wonder if these latter are also considered spectator shoes. Curiously enough (according to wikipedia), the first spectator shoes were designed by John Lobb in 1868, for -- of all people -- cricket players! Maybe I should find a pair, since cricket was my game at school and university.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> I've never owned a pair of classic spectator shoes. The closest I have come is a pair of shoes with dark and slightly less dark leathers combined in the same shoe - dark brown toecaps and saddles, with the rest of the shoe in somewhat lighter brown. I wonder if these latter are also considered spectator shoes. Curiously enough (according to wikipedia), the first spectator shoes were designed by John Lobb in 1868, for -- of all people -- cricket players! Maybe I should find a pair, since cricket was my game at school and university.


Nor have I. I've had several pair of saddle shoes combining different hides for the saddle and remainder of the shoe, and have always thought of them as just saddle shoes. No expert here, but I'd classify spectators as a different genre.

I love 'em, but couldn't possibly imagine me ever having enough opportunity to pair them well with circumstance and ensemble to justify an acquisition, least of all at this point in my life.


----------



## Flanderian

From DAKS Simpson - Simpson's of Piccadilly. Sorry that they're out of order -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

A reminder, dear reader, that this thread was created for the illustration of clothes, not the clothes themselves, and while the Constitution guarantees you the right to freely discuss clothing ("...to your hearts content", as Jefferson wrote), any time, any place, you would do well to occasionally give note of the illustrations themselves.

With that in mind, prompted by the thoroughly discouraging recent spate of poor quality, too small black and whites with indecipherable text, I offer up the following...











































And a repeat of the (unnoted, but stunning) two water colors a few posts above...


















Plus a vintage in oil...










And maybe one more...


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> to occasionally give note of the illustrations themselves


But we do, Peaks, we do. I recollect recent discussions in this very thread of the wonderful work, and unique styles of Laurence Fellows, JC Leyendecker, Akira Sorimachi and other luminaries in the "Pantheon of Menswear Illustrators". In fact, one of those discussions even prompted me to go and buy a book of illustrations by Fellows. I agree, we should be talking about this fine art -- which has, alas, been sidelined by photography in the last few decades.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> ...one of those discussions even prompted me to go and buy a book of * illustrations by Fellows.*


So you bought a book of cartoons?


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> So you bought a book of cartoons?


Yes! It is a wonderful book of Fellows illustrations from Esquire. I think Flanderian has it too, he bought it long before I did. Here it is:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> A reminder, dear reader, that this thread was created for the illustration of clothes, not the clothes themselves, and while the Constitution guarantees you the right to freely discuss clothing ("...to your hearts content", as Jefferson wrote), any time, any place, you would do well to occasionally give note of the illustrations themselves.
> 
> With that in mind, prompted by the thoroughly discouraging recent spate of poor quality, too small black and whites with indecipherable text, I offer up the following...
> 
> View attachment 84676
> 
> View attachment 84677
> 
> View attachment 84678
> 
> View attachment 84679
> 
> 
> View attachment 84680
> 
> 
> And a repeat of the (unnoted, but stunning) two water colors a few posts above...
> 
> View attachment 84681
> 
> View attachment 84682
> 
> 
> Plus a vintage in oil...
> 
> View attachment 84683
> 
> 
> And maybe one more...
> 
> View attachment 84684


The last two are, in my opinion, not only excellent illustrations but artistic compositions and executions I would be glad to have hung in my home.


----------



## Flanderian

Finishing out the series -


----------



## Peak and Pine

Vecchio Vespa said:


> The last two are, in my opinion, not only excellent illustrations but artistic compositions and executions I would be glad to have hung in my home.


Yes. Probably more portraiture than illustration, but remarkably fine. And a needed change from the stilted 1930s ads that have populated this thread of late. Which offer up a quandry as I greatly admire clothing of that period and incorporate as much as I can into my own stuff. But here we are, in a time when even the current stripped down versions, the too tight and the too short, are soon to be dust as we gravitate toward a suitless society. And the drawings of a recent yesteryear now seem as distant as if they depicted Napoleonic dress. Depressing. So I shy from the notable but drab ads Flanderian's been putting up, tho no knock to him. Covid, gas $s and Ukrane all add to this. I needs me some color. I don't seem to operate well in a sepia world.



























Back to what Vespa has mentioned, this...










...that is Jonathan Miler, recently deceased at 85, who at 18, me, saw in a landmark Broadway review, Beyond the Fringe, in '62. Here is a recent photo of him, how great the artist who did his likeness.










And this is actor Leslie Howard, best remembered as Ashley in GWTW. Dead when his plane was shot down in WWII.


----------



## drpeter

The portrait of Jonathan Miller looks so much like WH Auden, I actually thought it was him before seeing the photograph of Miller you added. Here's Auden in his later years, for comparison:


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

A blue blazer, gray flannels and whisky. Just about covers it.


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 85192
> 
> A blue blazer, gray flannels and whisky. Just about covers it.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 85192
> 
> You've inspired me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A blue blazer, gray flannels and whisky. Just about covers it.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

Apologies for the smallness. But a zoom in may be worth it.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Accoutrements for semi-formal, stroller, Stresemann, Esky circe 1930's -


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Apologies for the smallness. But a zoom in may be worth it.
> 
> 
> View attachment 85214


Those trousers seem like skirts. 33" cuffs!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

^
Photograph. This thread's for illustrations. And not necessarily advertisements. Illustrations featuring men's clothing, like this...

John Sheridan, one of the greats...
.









1938 with a suit that would wash today. Depiction of the undercarriage of the swivel chair particularly swell. I know about this. Had to grease mine last year.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 85462


I have a Knox fedora. They make elegant hats.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> I have a Knox fedora. They make elegant hats.


They are.









A history -









Knox New York Hat Company - Bernard Hats


The Knox Hat Company was founded in 1838 by Charles Knox expanded from a shop at 110 Fulton Street to his corporate headquarters and shop on Fifth Avenue.




bernardhats.com


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

^
Consider following the rules or starting a new thread. That's a photograph and not a particularly good one. This is an illustration....


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 85271


Been there, done that....but the contestant I was holding the blue ribbon for was a Doberman Pinscher named Socrates Defender (AKA: Socks) in shows in Kansas City, MO; Memphis TN; etc. Good memories!


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> Been there, done that....but the contestant I was holding the blue ribbon for was a Doberman Pinscher named Socrates Defender (AKA: Socks) in shows in Kansas City, MO; Memphis TN; etc. Good memories!


My wife is a great lover of dogs, and I've always enjoyed them Dog shows are one of our favorite entertainments. Have also attended coursing events a few times sponsored by the Wolfhound Club of America. What fabulous and interesting creatures! As I've found typical, discussions with breeder/fanciers offered everything one could wish to know, and much, much more! 

But seriously, watching these majestic dogs chase a lure around a field was awe inspiring. Their personalities are fascinating. While playfulness is atypical of the breed, one dog by the name of Jack introduced himself to my petit wife by pressing his nose between her shoulder blades by way of greeting. Their terribly short life spans seem a tragedy.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 85632
> 
> View attachment 85633


Field hockey in the lower photograph?


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Field hockey in the lower photograph?


Looks like it. Obviously photos of an school(s) during the '30's. Don't know which, but believe it may be Oxford, though it could also be a public school. Beautiful photos, and excellent illustrations of the clothing being worn at them during the period.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flanderian said:


> Looks like it. Obviously photos of an school(s) during the '30's. Don't know which, but believe it may be Oxford, though it could also be a public school. Beautiful photos, and excellent illustrations of the clothing being worn at them during the period.


It always struck me as odd that when (1960s) and where (northern Virginia) I was in high school, field hockey was a girls' sport. It looked like a blast.


----------



## Flanderian

Vecchio Vespa said:


> It always struck me as odd that when (1960s) and where (northern Virginia) I was in high school, field hockey was a girls' sport. It looked like a blast.


Certainly a marvelous opportunity to beat the bejeezus out of one's rivals with a stick!


----------



## drpeter

Vecchio Vespa said:


> It always struck me as odd that when (1960s) and where (northern Virginia) I was in high school, field hockey was a girls' sport. It looked like a blast.


Field hockey was a huge sport in India, very much a man's sport, although women too played the game. The big rivalry was with Pakistan, as one might expect. These countries had top teams well into the sixties. Then they both lost the edge to the West Germans and other European countries. And cricket began to supersede hockey as the national obsession. Now cricket is huge in both countries, and 80% of the world's cricket fans are in the subcontinent. Apart from national teams that play other countries, the Indian Premier League has cricketers from many of the cricket playing countries play in the Indian teams.


----------



## drpeter

Flanderian said:


> Looks like it. Obviously photos of an school(s) during the '30's. Don't know which, but believe it may be Oxford, though it could also be a public school. Beautiful photos, and excellent illustrations of the clothing being worn at them during the period.


I am pretty sure it's either Oxford or Cambridge. The arches of the old buildings in the photograph are a good indication.


----------



## Flanderian

drpeter said:


> Field hockey was a huge sport in India, very much a man's sport, although women too played the game. The big rivalry was with Pakistan, as one might expect. These countries had top teams well into the sixties. Then they both lost the edge to the West Germans and other European countries. And cricket began to supersede hockey as the national obsession. Now cricket is huge in both countries, and 80% of the world's cricket fans are in the subcontinent. Apart from national teams that play other countries, the Indian Premier League has cricketers from many of the cricket playing countries play in the Indian teams.


Interesting to learn!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## ran23

A lot of the option socks, I would have preferred. I really need stripped socks.


----------



## Flanderian

ran23 said:


> A lot of the option socks, I would have preferred. I really need stripped socks.


Stripes are a handsome classic. Subdued versions, IMO, are appropriate to most business attire. When I was in business. socks with clocking (A discreet pattern down the side.) were a favorite that added interest without drawing any comment other than what was favorable.

For a variety of reasons I shall not go into, I've become very fond of bamboo (rayon) socks. They are thin socks, with a silky texture and generally have no discernible toe seam. I only purchase inexpensive socks, as I don't wish to invest for the long-haul.

These have recently caught my eye as they are ribbed, which is a general preference I have. I also have a fondness for, and find very useful for accessorizing, socks that are burgundy or ruby in color. If the photo for this ad is correct, it looks as if the ribbing creates a stripe effect in socks of this shade. I'm also interested in their shade of forest green as I find it very useful, and it's somewhat difficult to come by.









Amazon.com: Silky Toes Mens Bamboo Ribbed Dress Crew Socks 3 or 6 Pairs Calf Socks : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry


Amazon.com: Silky Toes Mens Bamboo Ribbed Dress Crew Socks 3 or 6 Pairs Calf Socks : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry



www.amazon.com


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Last one of Oxford(?) '30's from LIFE covers -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

Rene Gruau does it again!


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 86101
> Rene Gruau does it again!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## drpeter

These topcoats, with their wide, billowy quarters, look almost like a cloak. I think there was a time when loose overcoats were the proper form for men.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Remember Stanley Blacker? Remember Orlon?


----------



## drpeter

I have a couple of Stanley Blacker sport coats. I like them, they are pretty functional. Mine are 100% wool, however -- no Orlon. But I remember Orlon, from reading about it.


----------



## Flanderian

Came across a couple more LIFE covers of natty Oxford(?) students from the '30's that were hiding in my archive -


----------



## ran23

I was gifted a Stanley Becker Camel Hair for my b'day. alas, it is a 38-short.


----------



## Flanderian

ran23 said:


> I was gifted a Stanley Becker Camel Hair for my b'day. alas, it is a 38-short.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Tiger

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 86504


So many great things in this thread...thank you, gentlemen!


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 86504


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 86520


I totally get the brown suede shoes with the gray suit, but polished black with a brown suit? The tie sort of ties it together, but I am struggling a bit here......


----------



## William Kazak

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 85632
> 
> View attachment 85633
> love this overcoat


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> I totally get the brown suede shoes with the gray suit, but polished black with a brown suit? The tie sort of ties it together, but I am struggling a bit here......


When you're the illustrator, you can make anything work! 

But melding an ensemble by tying it together with something above and below the waist is a useful tool. And the illustrator cheats further by making the browns, rich, "high" browns that tend to accessorize (And flatter!) more easily.


----------



## Flanderian

The origins of the polo coat.


----------



## drpeter

I've worn mid-brown sports jackets (flat hard cotton, rather than rich textured wool) with black or charcoal full-sleeve polos which are made of flat, soft pima cotton. A lighter colour in a pair of corduroy trousers (khaki, beige, rust) would combine well with this shirt and jacket. I think such combinations can work, but one must be careful about the shades and textures. Although I rarely wear black shoes, I imagine a pair of black loafers might go well with the ensemble I described above. In general brown, black and beige in various shades go well together, and here, playing with texture can create some lovely effects. Black shoes will also go with these mixtures.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Jarman -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Tweedlover

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 86775


That topcoat on the right resembles one I have, which, of course, was thrifted many years ago. Mine, however, is a medium gray with thin red windowpane stripes. I do like that style of collar.


----------



## Flanderian

Tweedlover said:


> That topcoat on the right resembles one I have, which, of course, was thrifted many years ago. Mine, however, is a medium gray with thin red windowpane stripes. I do like that style of collar.


Sounds handsome!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

Worthless post by me, now deleted.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## poppies

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 86842


Is the artist trying to indicate... snakeskin?


----------



## Flanderian

poppies said:


> Is the artist trying to indicate... snakeskin?


The figure on the left? If so, I don't think so. Just Mr. Fellows taking a whack at grained leather on a full brogue.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 86853


Great illustration! 

A tradition of fine cloth.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Peak and Pine

^^^
We should have a seperate thread for clothing cartoons. Lawrence Fellows, don't think he was invited to N. C. Wyeth's Christmas parties.


----------



## Oviatt

Not an illustration but madly interesting all the same:


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> Not an illustration but madly interesting all the same:
> 
> View attachment 86930


Mr. Stewart! Exceptional! 

But you need not apologize for it being a photo rather than a drawing. An illustration is any image that offers a visual explanation of a text, concept or process, as it does in this instance of the stylish nature of Mr. Stewart's dress. Photos along with drawings have always been used interchangeably as illustrations.

To suggest otherwise would be as ludicrous as conflating fine art and illustrations.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^
Bull.
The intention of this thread has always been to post depictions of mens' clothing as portrayed on canvas, meaning art created by something you hold in your hand that isn't a camera. And you know that.

Oviatt, the shot of Jimmy Stewart is an interesting one, maybe start a thread for portraiture?


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 86997


Great illustration!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 87036


The illustration is interesting, for sure, but the fabric pattern on that guy's suit is at best a bit jarring!


----------



## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> The illustration is interesting, for sure, but the fabric pattern on that guy's suit is at best a bit jarring!


Nah, it's country clothing, don't you know! 

Much wilder cloth than this was traditional English country fare. I think this is a large scale glen check in loosely woven Saxony. Soft, cozy and warm.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87110


GREAT art deco illustration!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87131


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87152


Outstanding!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Delete dupe.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87348


Great clothes and illustration!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

Hart, Schaffner & Marx


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87494
> Hart, Schaffner & Marx


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

The gentleman on the left has a blackthorn stick. I do too!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

Not an advert for clothing but those suits are a good a thing to wear while sipping whiskey as anything! Off the record.


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87533
> 
> 
> Not an advert for clothing but those suits are a good a thing to wear while sipping whiskey as anything! Off the record.


Very cool illustration!


----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87540


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Ordinary beach regalia.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87592


  

Lest my ailing memory fail me, our esteemed Eagle's one time employer.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87820


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 87852


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

If you say so......


----------



## Oviatt

Not sure if this is and old illustration or new, but it is too good not to post!


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> Not sure if this is and old illustration or new, but it is too good not to post!
> View attachment 87886


Most likely, and a great illustration!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## eagle2250

Oviatt said:


> Not sure if this is and old illustration or new, but it is too good not to post!
> View attachment 87886


Most impressive hat shot that I can recall being posted in this thread, for quite some time!


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## William Kazak

I love the nautical theme; navy double breasted blazer, brass buttons, white pants and white shoes.


----------



## eagle2250

William Kazak said:


> I love the nautical theme; navy double breasted blazer, brass buttons, white pants and white shoes.


While the sartorial style definitely has great appeal to me, I have to admit that other than for water skiing and fishing, boating is not a passion for me. However, the clothes are a big plus. LOL.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

Not a great copy, but lovely whimsy -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian

For those younger members who view pre-acquisition Brooks as an institution which was perpetually frozen in the '50's from its inception to its first acquisition, it wasn't. Rather it was a dynamo of evolving styles, but always driven by tradition, impeccable levels of taste and the finest quality. And it was within these parameters that its style evolved. It was when that innovation ceased, and those standards slipped, that its decline began.


----------



## Flanderian

Interwoven socks was a brand that produced some of the most iconic commercial art to ever grace an ad. Indeed, it was a Leyendecker illustration of theirs that Paul Stuart borrowed for their corporate logo.

Long merged, acquired; wash, rinse, repeat, the brand has vanished. But fortunately some of its iconic ad art lives on.

The illustration -









And the ad -


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 88605


I'm with the PJ's and dressing gown! 

Though long johns don't float my boat.


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Flanderian




----------



## William Kazak

Some guys know how to really enjoy life.


----------



## Flanderian

William Kazak said:


> Some guys know how to really enjoy life.


Gotta try!


----------



## Oviatt

This man is very serious about his bourbon....


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 89150
> 
> This man is very serious about his bourbon....


----------



## Flanderian




----------



## Oviatt

Is that the Fred Perry logo?


----------



## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> Is that the Fred Perry logo?


Looks as if it might be. Until you posed the question, I had never heard of Fred Perry, but a little clicking shows he was contemporary with the illustration. 

If Rene Lacoste can stick his Crocodile on everybody's shirts, why not Fred Perry!


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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## William Kazak

I need more contrast than the fella on the left.


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## Flanderian

William Kazak said:


> I need more contrast than the fella on the left.


Could you expand?


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## Flanderian




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## William Kazak

Flanderian said:


> Could you expand?


Wearing all the same color is not a look for me.


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## drpeter

I agree with @William Kazak: the shirt and trousers in identical colour (and material, it would seem) looks a bit too much like a uniform (military or sports). In the appropriate context (on a parade ground or a cricket field), the uniform will look fine, but outside those special environments, they look too studied, perhaps, or even contrived.


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## Oviatt




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## Flanderian

William Kazak said:


> Wearing all the same color is not a look for me.


  



Oviatt said:


> View attachment 89675


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## Flanderian

I have had a fondness for fancy socks. And I find the vintage Interwoven sock ads infinitely droll, or charming, usually well drawn and sometimes brilliantly so. Quite a few years ago I began collecting images of these ads. I'll offer them 3 at a time so as to hopefully not exhaust the patience of other forum members. For those whom they might interest -


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## Oviatt

Love those sock ads!


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## Flanderian




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## Oviatt




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## eagle2250

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 89741


I must admit that way back in the day I did occasionally could be found sitting on the lawn of the Hetzel Union Building, on Penn States University Park campus, but I never did that while wearing a coat and tie. Just saying.........


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## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 89741


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## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> I must admit that way back in the day I did occasionally could be found sitting on the lawn of the Hetzel Union Building, on Penn States University Park campus, but I never did that while wearing a coat and tie. Just saying.........


But you could have!  The fellow's jacket looks a lot like a Pendleton Topper, or something from McGregor.


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## Flanderian

Posted in error.


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## Flanderian




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## Preppy Climber

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 89753
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 89755
> 
> 
> View attachment 89756


As someone who also loves fancy socks (and I've long lost count of how many pairs I own), all of these ultra-cool ads are making me drool!


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## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> But you could have!  The fellow's jacket looks a lot like a Pendleton Topper, or something from McGregor.


Indeed, several Pendleton Toppers hing in my closet to this very day!


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## drpeter

Great adverts, Flanders! I've been thinking for some time that I should be looking for a few pairs of socks that are more brightly coloured. You've inspired me to look more actively. As such, I have the usual assortment of blacks, blues, greys and beiges, plus a bunch of argyles and socks with clocks, some of which are brighter than others.


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## Flanderian

Preppy Climber said:


> As someone who also loves fancy socks (and I've long lost count of how many pairs I own), all of these ultra-cool ads are making me drool!





eagle2250 said:


> Indeed, several Pendleton Toppers hing in my closet to this very day!


  



drpeter said:


> Great adverts, Flanders! I've been thinking for some time that I should be looking for a few pairs of socks that are more brightly coloured. You've inspired me to look more actively. As such, I have the usual assortment of blacks, blues, greys and beiges, plus a bunch of argyles and socks with clocks, some of which are brighter than others.


I still have several pair of old, sized F R Tripler English made socks in Merino wool for winter and cotton lisle for summer with clocks in business useful shades of grey and navy. IMHO, they're the nonpareil of elegance of socks for serious business. 

Then, of course, I also have socks with snow flakes, and reindeer.


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## Flanderian




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## Peak and Pine

Mixed review on the sock ads.Too much stuff crammed into too limited a space, a typical client demand. The top one in post #5050 crawls over the line with its quote from Revelations and it's depiction of a buck toothed, very yellow Japanese, and a dead Mussolini. Yeah, I get it, we won the war, connect that please to selling socks.

Ralph Lauren would never have created ads like those, with flyining socks being shuffled in the air like a deck of cards.

There's a reason I mention Lauren, a pioneer in aspirational advertising; don't show a dozen disembodied suits, show them your best one and put it in a setting that makes folks want everything in the picture from the classic car to the beautiful babe, but only one thing's for sale, the suit, so ka-chinggg on that.

Lauren was not the first to do this. One of the first, surprisingly enough, was the same company whose over-stuffed, poorly composed, corn ball ads appeared in the half dozen posts above, Interwoven Socks. And this approach may have mentored Lauren.

Until they cheaped out and went with whatever it was that created the ads above, Interwoven had the premier illustrator of the times in their fold. An example below. And if you hadn't seen the beautifully painted Interwoven logo, you might not know which of the items was being advertised. As it should be, they're socks for Ch***t's sake, a very minor part of the whole, but you can't miss 'em. A glorious ad, Leyendecker, 1929.


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## Flanderian

That's a beautiful illustration, and a great ad! 

Undeniably Leyendecker and Rockwell were, along with Wyeth, among the finest *draftsman* to ever do ad art.

Whether "over-stuffed, poorly composed, corn ball ads" is, however, a fair characterization (Rather than assassination? ) is less certain. Different era, different styles; one man's "corn ball" is another man's comedic joie de vivre. (Different fellows *can* have differing perspectives. ) For myself, I enjoy them thoroughly! As I also do the Leyendecker ad, enjoying it for what it is, rather than castigating it for its different intent and perspective.

The intent and purpose of the ads and their illustrations was to sell socks. The details of its contemporary commercial success of the specific ads are not known to me so I would not make any sweeping generalities about their commercial desirability. But I do know that at the time Interwoven was selling more socks than anyone else. (In the world, I believe.) which suggests it didn't hurt.


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## Oviatt




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## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 89906


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## Flanderian




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## Peak and Pine

I must admit, I'm warming a bit toward these 40s era Interwoven ads. The sock selection quite vast and the designs truly creative. So please pass this crumpled note on under the desks to the front row of the thread where I think Flanderian is seated...

_There are various way to view this thread. For the art and for the persuasive quality of the advertising are two. I felt the Interwoven ads fell short on both counts. But you are a collector of these and have a special affection for them. So nostalgia is a third way. I overlooked that. Viewing these illustrations in the context of their day is the right way, but that's something I lack the ability to do. I cannot look back very far with much feeling nor look ahead with mùch anticipation, a rather cold outlook until it's understood that it's purposeful, trained, disciplined in, so that concentration is on the present, a promise I made to myself as I began to really age. Let me move out of the way and let the nostalgia flow,, and make the occasional visits to this thread mostly silent ones._


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## Flanderian

Peak and Pine said:


> I must admit, I'm warming a bit toward these 40s era Interwoven ads. The sock selection quite vast and the designs truly creative. So please pass this crumpled note on under the desks to the front row of the thread where I think Flanderian is seated...
> 
> _There are various way to view this thread. For the art and for the persuasive quality of the advertising are two. I felt the Interwoven ads fell short on both counts. But you are a collector of these and have a special affection for them. So nostalgia is a third way. I overlooked that. Viewing these illustrations in the context of their day is the right way, but that's something I lack the ability to do. I cannot look back very far with much feeling nor look ahead with mùch anticipation, a rather cold outlook until it's understood that it's purposeful, trained, disciplined in, so that concentration is on the present, a promise I made to myself as I began to really age. Let me move out of the way and let the nostalgia flow,, and make the occasional visits to this thread mostly silent ones._


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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian

The last of them -


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## Flanderian

Not great draftsmanship, but still great style!


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## Oviatt




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## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 90077


   Outstanding!


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## Flanderian




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## Oviatt

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 90135


Love this--blotters and Juleps make a perfect backdrop for mens accessaries.


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## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> Love this--blotters and Juleps make a perfect backdrop for mens accessaries.


A well done layout, IMHO.


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## Flanderian




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## Preppy Climber

I wish I would have kept these two framed prints. Photo taken 20+ years ago in my first house in Long Beach, CA.


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## Preppy Climber

Here's a close up of the bottom half of one of the framed prints. OK, maybe I also want to brag on the budgies, unfortunately no longer with me.


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## Peak and Pine

^
Hey lookit them boids.
Very colorful. Paint them yourself, or did they come out of the sky that way?


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## Preppy Climber

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> Hey lookit them boids.
> Very colorful. Paint them yourself, or did they come out of the sky that way?


Ha! Roady and Ryder came directly from the sky! 😁


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## Flanderian

Preppy Climber said:


> I wish I would have kept these two framed prints. Photo taken 20+ years ago in my first house in Long Beach, CA.
> View attachment 90238



Great prints!


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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Preppy Climber

Flanderian said:


> Great prints!


Thank you!


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## drpeter

Preppy Climber said:


> Here's a close up of the bottom half of one of the framed prints. OK, maybe I also want to brag on the budgies, unfortunately no longer with me.
> View attachment 90239


Are the budgies real birds (stuffed, perhaps) or are they made out of some material like porcelain?


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## Preppy Climber

drpeter said:


> Are the budgies real birds (stuffed, perhaps) or are they made out of some material like porcelain?


They were indeed real—their chirping attested to that. 😆 In the first picture you’ll see a plastic toy budgie on the perch that Roady and Ryder thought was their playmate. 😁


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## Flanderian




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## drpeter

Preppy Climber said:


> They were indeed real—their chirping attested to that. 😆 In the first picture you’ll see a plastic toy budgie on the perch that Roady and Ryder thought was their playmate. 😁


Thank you for clarifying that -- I should probably have guessed when you mentioned their names.


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## Preppy Climber

drpeter said:


> Thank you for clarifying that -- I should probably have guessed when you mentioned their names.


Well, I might be biased, but my budgies were so picture perfect that they did look almost unreal. 😁


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## Oviatt




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## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 90366


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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Oviatt




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## Flanderian

Oviatt said:


> View attachment 90390


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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Andy

*Banned!* Illegal/immoral business practice spam advertising without paying!


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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian

I think I may have posted this charming set of figures in some form before, but came upon individual images of each in good digital detail so am offering them again. Believe the illustrator is Fell-Sharp (One gentleman.) who did contract work for AA and Esquire.


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## Flanderian

F.W.I.W, $35 in 1937 is worth about $720 now.


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## eagle2250

Flanderian said:


> F.W.I.W, $35 in 1937 is worth about $720 now.
> 
> View attachment 90726


So, you are telling us that actual spending levels have remained essentially the same? Good to know,


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## Flanderian

eagle2250 said:


> So, you are telling us that actual spending levels have remained essentially the same? Good to know,


Yes and no, but as a generality so it seems.

There are important distinctions to consider such as the tailored garments actually having been the product of hand tailoring, as I suspect that much of the mechanized processes that produce contemporary tailored clothing didn't exist in 1937. I.e., real clothing made by real people. But whether well or poorly depends on the individual item.

I've also noticed that cloth from the era in addition to being heavier was also often less refined, and I'm not alluding to Super numbers. Rather, it would seem that technology has had a largely beneficial effect in the mills that now produce it.


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## Flanderian




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## Flanderian




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## Peak and Pine

^
The copy's particularly good on the above. Maybe because the author and I share the sentiment. Not sure which came first, the copy or the art, but they don't quite match. Difficult to read on this small screen cell, the idea is that a conventional outfit is brought more to life with a single burst of something or other, the key being _single_, and I agree; the copy refers to the vest. However, Jaunty Jack there also has an enormous flower in his lapel and a collar pin for his shirt, maybe scrap some of that and go with just the vest, which has an oddly cut bottom.

Jack's all set for his day at the races with his binocular case and probably one of those cane things that turns into a wobbly, single legged seat. My grandfather used to use one of those, he lived at the races, Suffolk Downs, the bay state's grabber of your cash, and they talk about fentanyl.


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## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> one of those cane things that turns into a wobbly, single legged seat.


It's called a shooting stick, Peaks, and I am familiar with it because Indian Army officers regularly carried those things. They are similar to a swagger stick, except that the top opens up and splits to both sides. forming a seat on which the officer can rest his backside. Here's an example, from the British Army:


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## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> The copy's particularly good on the above. Maybe because the author and I share the sentiment. Not sure which came first, the copy or the art, but they don't quite match. Difficult to read on this small screen cell, the idea is that a conventional outfit is brought more to life with a single burst of something or other, the key being _single_, and I agree; the copy refers to the vest. However, Jaunty Jack there also has an enormous flower in his lapel and a collar pin for his shirt, maybe scrap some of that and go with just the vest, which has an oddly cut bottom.
> 
> Jack's all set for his day at the races with his binocular case and probably one of those cane things that turns into a wobbly, single legged seat. My grandfather used to use one of those, he lived at the races, Suffolk Downs, the bay state's grabber of your cash, and they talk about fentanyl.


I would like to add that several shades of yellow and Oxford grey flannel go together very well. This attests more to the versatility of the grey flannel suit rather than anything specific to the yellow. Ties with yellow stripes, or broad swaths of yellow punctuated by small, neat, repeating patterns, are also perfect with grey flannel. Tattersall shirts with Yellow/Cream ground are great with such a suit as well.


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## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> It's called a shooting stick, Peaks, and I am familiar with it because Indian Army officers regularly carried those things. They are similar to a swagger stick, except that the top opens up and splits to both sides. forming a seat of which the officer can rest his backside. Here's an example, from the British Army:
> 
> View attachment 90915


Who needs Google when I've got you. Thanksish (Hebrew for _thanks_). Does it come with a balm jar for sore a**?


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## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Who needs Google when I've got you. Thanksish (Hebrew for _thanks_). Does it come with a balm jar for sore a**?


You're always welcome.

As for balm jars, I never checked with the officers concerned. Since they were my superiors, that question would have set me off on what they euphemistically called "extra parade" -- trotting for miles with a full haversack and a rifle and those heavyweight "cement shoes" called ammunition boots. The Army can be bizarre.


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## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> It's called a shooting stick, Peaks, and I am familiar with it because Indian Army officers regularly carried those things. They are similar to a swagger stick, except that the top opens up and splits to both sides. forming a seat on which the officer can rest his backside. Here's an example, from the British Army:
> 
> View attachment 90915


I am not sure why I have one of those stick field chairs, but there it sits, leaning against the side of a rowboat (evolved into a bookcase) in my cave. Life is somewhat strange at times, but it is good as well.


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## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I am not sure why I have one of those stick field chairs, but there it sits, leaning against the side of a rowboat (evolved into a bookcase) in my cave. Life is somewhat strange at times, but it is good as well.


A rowboat bookcase? I need one of those, since my flat is really littered with tidy stacks of books in every room.


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## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> A rowboat bookcase? I need one of those, since my flat is really littered with tidy stacks of books in every room.


You may be in luck, my friend. I bought mine ( 20+ years ago) off a craftsman from Wisconsin that travelled around craft fairs in several States and took orders to be constructed and shipped to the purchasers. They turned out rather solidly built and really handsome work. Good luck in your hunt.


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## Flanderian




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## AJP

Here is a picture from Flanderian's Vintage Esquire Illustrations that shows a nice illustration of a "shooting stick" being used.


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## AJP




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## Peak and Pine

^
Good copy with that, could be written today. But as with a lot of these Esquire reprints, it doesn't totally address the picture. For instance, it doesn't mention that the seated gent has left his chin in the car, or in this case, in the half a car, a rare automotive innovation of the 40s that failed to catch on.


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## martinlily

Thanks for sharing this useful information.


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## Oviatt




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## crispyfresh

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 85771


The patterns in the socks to the left are fabulous. I wonder if anyone makes anything similar currently?


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## Oviatt




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## Oviatt




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## Oviatt




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