# Another Ben Silver shamele$$ price: Alden shoe trees



## 1WB (Sep 25, 2008)

I was just shopping to see whether there were any deals out there right now on Alden shoe trees and I happened across Ben Silver's $65 !?! listing.

Why mark up an item only 10% or 20%, when you can sell it for almost double!

Oh, Ben Silver...


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## Bucksfan (May 25, 2008)

Check amazon for the woodlore elite shoe tree - they're part of the 30% off amazon sale - so that brings them to $21 with free shipping!


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

If you've got a Nordstrom Rack near you, they've got the Woodlore ones for $13. I scooped some up this past weekend.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

They never fail to amaze me. At one point, maybe in the 90s, I bought a few regimental-type ties and a $175 shirt from them (nice but not worth it), and they've been sending me about 10 catalogues a year ever since. Maybe those crazy prices are to pay for that.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

We've been through the whole issue with Ben Silver and their gouging at least twice that I can recall. During one of those times I'm absolutely positive we had someone who works for Ben Silver chime in incognito,....

During one of JOS Banks most recent sales I picked up six pairs of shoe trees at a little over nine bucks per pair.

I will never forget my visit to their store in Charleston. For anyone who visits the store I invite you to just inquire with one of the 20 something sales associates if they ever have sales,..... The attitude exuded by the Prenners inside most of the front covers of their catalogs is also expressed by their help.

Everything Ben Silver sells is made from the "finest available materials,".....:crazy: If you don't believe it just read one of their catalogs!


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## Benson (Aug 28, 2009)

Perhaps more importantly than BS pricing habits, I would add that I can't discern anything special about my alden trees. In fact, they seem just as so-so as the pairs I bought at a third of the cost. I'd also add that here in Spain Carmina charges sixty five euro for a pair of lasted trees, and while that is nearly ninety usd it is 65 euro to Spaniards.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Best deal ever was Woodlores from STP at $7.77 delivered about a year ago. I bought at least eight pairs. I'm hot-and-cold on JAB. They are not split, for one thing, and so they work fine for some pairs and are a tight squeeze for others. But the price is right if purchased on sale (and that happens at least three times a year).


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

CMDC said:


> If you've got a Nordstrom Rack near you, they've got the Woodlore ones for $13. I scooped some up this past weekend.


Me too. Being split is a nice feature.



32rollandrock said:


> Best deal ever was Woodlores from STP at $7.77 delivered about a year ago. I bought at least eight pairs. I'm hot-and-cold on JAB. They are not split, for one thing, and so they work fine for some pairs and are a tight squeeze for others. But the price is right if purchased on sale (and that happens at least three times a year).


$7.77 delivered? Was free shipping in effect, or were they listed even _lowe__r?_ I hopped on the JAB deal too, but I now see that being split would help shape a few pairs better.

For an even cheaper deal (sporadically) on cedar trees, sign up for DSW's rewards program. They often send out $10 off $10 coupons, and they carry a basic split cedar tree for about $12-$15. They don't come as nicely boxed as JAB or Woodlore, but they do the job for $5.


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## MacTweed (Oct 30, 2011)

Yeah, when I purchased my Alden shell cordovan tassel loafers from Ben Silver in July I also purchased the Alden shoe trees. I balked at the price at first, but gave in and purchased them anyway. In hindsight I should have shopped around. I believe they also charged me $12 for the Alden shoe paste as well. One would think they would throw it in for free after spending that much. 

While they sell nice stuff, I believe they are overpriced by a significant margin.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

I believe there was free shipping. I shoulda bought more.

Also, not long ago, someone said that Target sells cedar trees for $9 every day. I went to my local Target, but they had none. Indeed, they weren't sure what a shoe tree was until I 'splained it.



Taken Aback said:


> Me too. Being split is a nice feature.
> 
> $7.77 delivered? Was free shipping in effect, or were they listed even _lowe__r?_ I hopped on the JAB deal too, but I now see that being split would help shape a few pairs better.
> 
> For an even cheaper deal (sporadically) on cedar trees, sign up for DSW's rewards program. They often send out $10 off $10 coupons, and they carry a basic split cedar tree for about $12-$15. They don't come as nicely boxed as JAB or Woodlore, but they do the job for $5.


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## Benson (Aug 28, 2009)

Whenever one of these Ben Silver is expensive threads appear, I vacillate between wanting to point out my own unsatisfactory experiences ($36 socks should not develop pulls in a week) and wanting to defend the place. I say defend because they kind of get treated unfairly here. That is to say, some items there are marked up egregiously, there is no doubt, but not all of them. Most of the trousers, for example, are excellent and reasonably priced, and can sometimes be had for fifty percent off the retail price (I once nabbed a pair of hertling-made covert twills for $65.). I'd also say more than half the accessories cost what they cost everywhere. The Drakes' goods, for example, cost what they do everywhere. 

In fact, I am going to go so far as to say BS can be a better value than Press or Brooks at times. A BS ocbd cost twice as much as one from the others, sure, but has anyone here not returned a shirt or similar item to BB or Press because it started falling apart after a month? Perhaps I am the only one, but each of the past six shirts I've bought from BB has started abrading at the shoulder seam after just four or five washings (no dryers ever), and after a year or two the collars start to wear significantly. The last Press shirt I bought came with its buttons nearly hanging off (two loose passes through the buttonhole at most) and has a collar so skimpy and tails so short I never wear it. My oldest BS ocbd is ten years old and is only now starting to come apart at the collar, and the youngest is two and look just out of packaging. Would I, however, pay $300 for an ocbd made of Thomas Mason 200s cloth by individualized? Never. I can get Mytailor to make me a shirt in that cloth for a bit more than half the price, and I can go to Burgos and have a shirt handmade for me in alumo cloth for $300, and that is with an unfavorable exchange rate. So BS loses me there, and other places, namely shoes, but even there one must concede that a number of stores charge what BS charges for C&Js, no? It's just that pediwear sells them cheaper.

So how much of the dislike of BS is about the sales of the other places? What I mean to ask is whether BB and JP buy loyalty by occasionally forgoing their own insane markup (when one considers what one is getting)? I know it kept me shopping in those places for years. But at some point I became so disgusted with the quality of the goods (can anyone argue that the $20 BB otc sock can even come close to a $25 Marcoliani sock? or that a $200 pair of BB trousers can compare to a Herttling-made $200 trouser?), that buying fewer items at places I liked seemed not only desirable but the only option for someone who likes these kinds of clothes.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

^^

Don't own any Press shirts, but I get at least four years out of my BB OCBD's, and that's with weekly wear except in the summertime when the weather turns withering. If what you describe happened to me, I'd return the shirts for full refunds. BB did that once for me with a shirt that was more than a year old but worn rarely, and they did it without any arguing and even after I said that a store credit would be sufficient.

You are right about BB socks, though. Horrid quality.


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## DG123 (Sep 16, 2011)

I buy my Alden shoe trees from www.shermanbrothers.com , $30 pair.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

32, they're usually found at the end of an aisle in the shoe department, the next aisle over may have the shoes polishes.

first time I bought them, they were indeed $9. Last time I checked, they were increased to $12. They're made in Ch... btw. You may also check the Bass outlet, where they have a deal on 2 pairs at $15 apiece.



32rollandrock said:


> I believe there was free shipping. I shoulda bought more.
> 
> Also, not long ago, someone said that Target sells cedar trees for $9 every day. I went to my local Target, but they had none. Indeed, they weren't sure what a shoe tree was until I 'splained it.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

DG123 said:


> I buy my Alden shoe trees from www.shermanbrothers.com , $30 pair.


A local, family-run shoe store has top-quality, spring-loaded cedar shoe trees for $25. Look close to home, it can be done. However, the store boasts Dexter as their top shoe. Go figure.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Not at this Target, sad to say--did a thorough check, then sought help from a manager. Now, if only there was a Bass outlet within striking distance...



Barrister & Solicitor said:


> 32, they're usually found at the end of an aisle in the shoe department, the next aisle over may have the shoes polishes.
> 
> first time I bought them, they were indeed $9. Last time I checked, they were increased to $12. They're made in Ch... btw. You may also check the Bass outlet, where they have a deal on 2 pairs at $15 apiece.


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

I find my woodlore split-toe trees at K&G superstore for $12. Not sure if you have one of those nearby??


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## Benson (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks, 32. I failed to mention that BB did exchange the shirts without question and that they have always handled such situations admirably. The problem for me is that it happened to the next batch, too, one of which was non-iron (I wanted a box check and thought I should finally try the non-irons anyway) and unfortunately it deteriorated even quicker than the others. Anyway, I gave up on BB because this wasn't the only time; too many items had arrived at my door with problems or soon developed them (popped buttons, unraveling side seams etc.) whereas I'd never once had a problem with the other shops. 
Shirts are a slightly different story, though, for while I like those at Andover and BS and both can be had for reasonable prices, last year I ventured into MTM shirts and I can't imagine going back. For one thing, it is not so appreciably more expensive and probably not more costly, and for another I can get exactly, or almost exactly, what I want and not have to waste so much time returning things or writing emails to CS departments. 

Alas, I've strayed some . . .Happy thanksgiving, all.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

127.72 MHz said:


> We've been through the whole issue with Ben Silver and their gouging at least twice that I can recall. During one of those times I'm absolutely positive we had someone who works for Ben Silver chime in incognito,....
> 
> During one of JOS Banks most recent sales I picked up six pairs of shoe trees at a little over nine bucks per pair.
> 
> ...


Why are we picking on Ben Silver? Every item I've ever bought from them is as good or better than a comparable BB or J Press item. In some cases, markedly so. If they choose to price their products higher than expected, how does that hurt you or me? I can choose to pay their asking price or buy a similar product elsewhere. It's as simple as that. There's no need to belittle one of the better menswear stores in America today.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

eyedoc2180 said:


> A local, family-run shoe store has top-quality, spring-loaded cedar shoe trees for $25. Look close to home, it can be done. However, the store boasts Dexter as their top shoe. Go figure.


Really? I've been shopping there for a long time, and I've never heard that one. They sell a lot of Alden, among other strong brands. Offer a hush-hush 10% discount on Alden for in-store purchases, btw.


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## chilton (Jul 16, 2008)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Why are we picking on Ben Silver? Every item I've ever bought from them is as good or better than a comparable BB or J Press item. In some cases, markedly so. If they choose to price their products higher than expected, how does that hurt you or me? I can choose to pay their asking price or buy a similar product elsewhere. It's as simple as that. There's no need to belittle one of the better menswear stores in America today.


Valid point. However, are their $65 Alden shoe trees better than Sherman brothers $30 shoes trees? No.

I guess their strategy on identical items from non-house brands is to make up the margins on people who don't cross shop or just don't care. That's fine, however in that process they alienate potential crossshoppong customers because they cause them to question: "If BS is blatantly price gouging on easily comparable items, what are they doing for not so easily compared items(like a house blazer)?". That works well when businesses existed on a fairly local isolated basis, not as much now.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

chilton said:


> Valid point. However, are their $65 Alden shoe trees better than Sherman brothers $30 shoes trees? No.
> 
> I guess their strategy on identical items from non-house brands is to make up the margins on people who don't cross shop or just don't care. That's fine, however in that process they alienate potential crossshoppong customers because they cause them to question: 'if BS is blatantly price gouging on easily comparable items, what are they doing for not so easily compared items(like a house blazer)?". That works well when businesses existed on a fairly isolated basis, not as much now.


I hear you, but I think of it this way: When I'm travelling on the highway, have 500 more miles to go, and get thirsty, do I stop at a gas station convenience store and pay $2 for a bottle of water or do I stop at a BJ's to get a case of water for 50 cents per bottle? In the interest of saving time, I stop at the gas station. It's my choice.

I suspect that the target BS customer makes a similar tradeoff when shopping for clothes. When you're spending a fair amount of change for a pair of C&J shoes with maybe a sportcoat and one or two pairs of trousers thrown in, a premium of $30 for a pair of shoe trees probably doesn't enter into the equation. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I'm just saying some people value their time and would rather not spend it finding the best price for shoe trees.

As for not so easily compared items like a house blazer, I sincerely believe that BS offers a high quality inhouse product. Would I pay retail? That's a tough call, but if I had to choose a house blazer from BS, BB or JPress, I would certainly try out the BS blazer first.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Why are we picking on Ben Silver? Every item I've ever bought from them is as good or better than a comparable BB or J Press item. In some cases, markedly so. If they choose to price their products higher than expected, how does that hurt you or me? I can choose to pay their asking price or buy a similar product elsewhere. It's as simple as that. There's no need to belittle one of the better menswear stores in America today.


I agree with this. If you don't like the prices then don't shop there. I've gotten a few things from BS that I consider of top quality and fairly priced; other items seem to be way too pricey but I don't get upset about it, I just go elsewhere.


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## sjk (Dec 1, 2007)

The Rambler said:


> Really? I've been shopping there for a long time, and I've never heard that one. They sell a lot of Alden, among other strong brands. Offer a hush-hush 10% discount on Alden for in-store purchases, btw.


I'll ultimately let him speak for himself, but was eyedoc2180 referring to Sherman Brothers his original post or another "local, family-run shoe store" presumably in NJ? (I agree Sherman Brothers is a great store, both online and B&M.)


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Ben Silver, generally, is BS. God knows I'm not a cheapskate, but their prices are laughable.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

They're simply trying to get people to pay their fair share:

https://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/sue-prenner.asp?cycle=08


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

^ Wow. $1500. That explains everything.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Why are we picking on Ben Silver? Every item I've ever bought from them is as good or better than a comparable BB or J Press item. In some cases, markedly so. If they choose to price their products higher than expected, how does that hurt you or me? I can choose to pay their asking price or buy a similar product elsewhere. It's as simple as that. There's no need to belittle one of the better menswear stores in America today.


In my way of thinking Ben Silver is picking on themselves! It's a matter of perspective and my perspective, as well as many others, is that Ben Silver has good to very good menswear.
*Great catalogs
*Good ideas and examples of mostly classic style.

But you're incorrect to compare Ben Silver to J. Press or Brooks Brothers. After all one look, (and especially one read) at any Ben Silver catalog and you will see that Ben Silver sees themselves as having no equal! (and their prices reflect that!)

If you will kindly read the inside of *any* Ben Silver catalog you will read about clothing made from "The finest available materials," and that is one hell of a difficult claim to back up. (so much so that anyone who has taken the time to pick up even a rudimentary feel for mens clothing can see straight away that this claim is simply laughable! )

Your question: *"If they choose to price their products higher than expected, how does that hurt you or me?*" One of the main reasons many members of AAAC come here is to interact with others who are interested in mens clothing. A large part of this interaction is keeping an eye on the mens clothing market. (and that includes quality as well as price *which equals overall value*) So *not* to shed light on the overall value of a given vendor defeats one of the main purposes that many AAAC members depend on this site for.

This is no more "Picking on" Ben Silver than it is "Picking on" any other vendor that we regularly discuss here at AAAC.

If you care to reply to this message please use one sentence in your reply to address the comments the Prenners make in their catalogs such as their offering being made from the "Finest available materials." or their clothing are "Investments" that an owner will "Not lose one penny on."

What does "The finest available materials" mean to you? To me it's very easy to clarify, it means that *you cannot find any better materials anywhere in the world, period.* After reading this have you ever wondered why Prince Charles, and for that matter the rest of the males in the British Royal family, do not purchase their clothing from Ben Silver? Do you? Do you understand that this is a ridiculous claim to make?

It's very simple, Ben Silver, the Prenners overstate the quality of their clothing to justify the price. Now putting this into perspective it's not as though I'm saying the Prenners are bad people and they're going to hell! I, and many others, have simply said that they have a little higher opinion of their products than is justified by the prices that they charge.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

BS seems just to have taken the psychic thrill many get from paying more for something they could buy for less, to a higher power. They wouldn't still be in business if there weren't plenty of folks who enjoy that.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

I agree with Snow Hill Pond. Ben Silver offers very good products for very high prices, and presents a poor value for most of us. But I don't care. I'll shop their online thrift store occasionally and have purchased used items on e-Bay. Every business has a different model, and I'll admit theirs does not appeal to me. But I see no reason to bash them -- I get ideas from their catalogs and benefit from their wares using my thrifty shopping strategy. 

As far as "best materials available" goes, I just view that as typically retail puffery and pay it no mind. Years ago Ford claimed their "Granada" compared favorably to a Mercedes. I paid that no mind either, and have purchased two Fords since with a clear conscience.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

For what it's worth I too have purchased from Ben Silver and, where I can justify the expense, I will continue to do so in the future.

That being said I don't view the "best materials available" thing as typical retail puffery. I truly believe that Ben Silver takes it to a level that, quite frankly, puts me off.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Not enamored with posters saying what other posters should or should not do. Each or us is entitled to their opinion, and some opinions are more valid than others ("validity" consisting of logic, knowledge, experience, etc.).

If one wishes to purchase from Ben Silver, do so. If not, don't. If someone wants to criticize Silver's prices, quality, service or anything else, go ahead. Those of you who disagree are free to offer rejoinders on why the critiques may be misguided. 

The tilt toward quasi-censorship to protect Ben Silver is absurd. Brooks Brothers, O'Connell's, J.Press, Edward Green, Allen Edmonds, Alden, Lands' End, L.L. Bean, and many other fine companies have been criticized on these fora - perhaps even by the Ben Silver defenders in this thread. Why Ben Silver gets special consideration, and others do not, is hard to fathom.


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## Benson (Aug 28, 2009)

While I think there are a number of valid points above, I think it is difficult to claim BS inflates the worth of their goods more than other companies. Hyperbole is the nature of advertising, no? Regarding comparisons, however, I just don't know that BB or Press still make worthwhile goods at any price any more, and I also don't know that they are so much cheaper than BS (are they not selling the same trousers as O'connell's for a similar price? Are they not selling Aldens and Hilton jackets for what others sell them?). In fact, one wonders if it is simply that BS doesn't have sales that puts people off. If so, I think it is fair to say that this is common practice for a good number of "upscale" mens' shops (see: Wilkes bashford, and many, many places in NY (as well as Madrid and London). 

Re censorship: I'm not sure anyone suggested we shouldn't criticize BS. Is this is a matter lingering from another thread?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
It would seem that what you are saying is that value, like beauty, is truly in the eye/mind of the beholder! 
..............and I am inclined to agree.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I remember, years ago, teasing a very dignified, silver-haired colleague about something he was wearing. His response: "If Brooks Brothers sells it, I'll wear it, and that settles it." I think Ben Silver must fill that role for many of its regular customers. Disregarding price, there is almost nothing in their catalogues that I consider to be in bad taste, or shoddy. For the non-aficianado, that's a real "value added."


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

Perhaps someone from Ben Silver has been reading this thread? 
:icon_smile_wink:

The Alden trees seem to be the standard $35 now:
https://www.bensilver.com/Alden-Cedar-Shoe-Trees,5736.html


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Dr. D said:


> Perhaps someone from Ben Silver has been reading this thread?
> :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> The Alden trees seem to be the standard $35 now:
> https://www.bensilver.com/Alden-Cedar-Shoe-Trees,5736.html


If this is the case, then they should know that their lovely shawl cardigans are overpriced by $100. Contact me when the price is corrected and I'll buy 6!


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> I remember, years ago, teasing a very dignified, silver-haired colleague about something he was wearing. His response: "If Brooks Brothers sells it, I'll wear it, and that settles it." I think Ben Silver must fill that role for many of its regular customers. Disregarding price, there is almost nothing in their catalogues that I consider to be in bad taste, or shoddy. For the non-aficianado, that's a real "value added."


I agree with this, Rambler. Additionally, as others have said, occasionally Ben Silver has a pretty decent price on an item. I got a wonderful pair of slippers from them; they were cheaper than J. Press and O'Connell's slippers. Though I don't purchase from Ben Silver very often, I do check out their sale section on-line from time to time. Some items are greatly reduced in price. So, though I tend to look elsewhere for a variety of reasons, I think Ben Silver is worth a look.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

This whole "value" argument is silly, whether with respect to Ben Silver or anyone else. Quality is a perceptual measurement (a. not everyone will agree on an item's relative quality and b. quality includes design values which are wholly aesthetic criteria). And while price is objectively measurable, price sensitivity is not. So the notion that members are "shedding light on the overall value of a given vendor" is an exercise in futility.


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## 1WB (Sep 25, 2008)

Dr. D said:


> Perhaps someone from Ben Silver has been reading this thread?
> :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> The Alden trees seem to be the standard $35 now:
> https://www.bensilver.com/Alden-Cedar-Shoe-Trees,5736.html


Attention moderators: perhaps we could re-title this thread something slightly less inflamatory, like Ben Silver prices: Alden shoe trees?

It has proven to be a very interesting discussion.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

_If_ they were to take action, a thread split would be more likely.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Sartre said:


> This whole "value" argument is silly, whether with respect to Ben Silver or anyone else. Quality is a perceptual measurement (a. not everyone will agree on an item's relative quality and b. quality includes design values which are wholly aesthetic criteria). And while price is objectively measurable, price sensitivity is not. So the notion that members are "shedding light on the overall value of a given vendor" is an exercise in futility.


Sharing opinions is a large part of what makes this web site so helpful to so many. That being said I acknowledge your opinion and I wholly disagree.

The whole "Value" argument is fully valid. Almost anything human beings are involved with becomes relative. (subjective) That subjectivity has a much wider variance when people have little understanding on which to base their subjective, (relative) opinions.

Many people here at AAAC have a much better understanding of mens clothing than the population at large and therefore they have a more objective view of what quality in mens clothing means.

So there's nothing at all "Silly" about discussions on this board about the price to quality ratio of a retailer's offerings and these discussions are very helpful and thus not even remotely futile.


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## dcjacobson (Jun 25, 2007)

I like getting the Ben Silver catalogs--I'd love to look as good as any of the men shown in them. I hope the catalogs keep coming and they don't catch on to me, because my last puchase was about 20 years ago and I can't even remember what I bought! Probably a tie. but I'm on a budget now. If I was a high-earning guy, I'd have no qualms at all about patronizing them.

As an aside, I do think their current lapel and tie widths are a bit too skinny for my tastes. I like the traditional look, but I'm not sure I want to go back to 1962.

Good luck,
Don


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## swb120 (Aug 9, 2005)

I don't know of any other retail store which has a better selection of crested/emblematic ties (though $110 per tie is a steep price). I love my BS emblematics.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> Sharing opinions is a large part of what makes this web site so helpful to so many. That being said I acknowledge your opinion and I wholly disagree.
> 
> The whole "Value" argument is fully valid. Almost anything human beings are involved with becomes relative. (subjective) That subjectivity has a much wider variance when people have little understanding on which to base their subjective, (relative) opinions.
> 
> ...


The fact that there are widely differing opinions from informed posters about whether Ben Silver gives good value is a proof statement that this is an exercise in futility. It may be fun to discuss, but you are not "shedding light" on anything. The conversation is good; the pronouncements are off putting.

The reasoning of many here seems to be: At BS the regimental ties are $105. I can get a good regimental tie from Brooks for $80. Therefore BS is a rip-off. This is reductive reasoning.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ Or you can get the *exact same tie* from the *same place *Ben Silver gets many of their regimental ties (*) shipped to your door from London for less than Ben Silver charges.

This example is an objective fact. I have purchased ties form both from Ben Silver and Benson and Clegg and both ties were labeled "Benson and Clegg." (Other members have done the same thing and commented on this forum)

This equated to better value verses what Ben Silver offers on the exact same item.

* Benson and Clegg https://www.bensonandclegg.com/index.php?p=27/37/0


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