# Christmas = "Season"?



## Philip12 (Aug 24, 2005)

On its website Brooks Brothers invites us to "celebrate the season." The ad features a Christmas tree, so I can assume "season" has become synonymous with "Christmas".

What about spring, summer and fall, are they still "seasons" to be celebrated, too?

Has it become bad taste to use the word "Christmas" in America? Why would that be?

Is "Christmas" a trad word?


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

Philip12 said:


> Is "Christmas" a trad word?


not if you Jewish, or Muslim or Hindu or ....


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

I find this ridiculous as well and I am Jewish.

I understand why, but it still seems a bit disingenuous to call it 'Holidays' or 'Season'. The fact is that this entire American cultural rhythm is based on Christmas, not any other holiday. I am fine with that and wish people would just say 'Christmas'.

In the end, people get their point across though, so it's not the end of the world.

Danny


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Philip12 said:


> On its website Brooks Brothers invites us to "celebrate the season." The ad features a Christmas tree, so I can assume "season" has become synonymous with "Christmas".
> 
> What about spring, summer and fall, are they still "seasons" to be celebrated, too?
> 
> ...


Oh And Philip, if you're wondering the reason 'why'...it's called 'political correctness'. No public entity wants to exclude anyone or offend anyone so they use the most generic term possible. Unlike Belgium, we have millions of non-Christians here. That's the reason why.

I have found myself wondering when this began. I assume in the 1960s businesses would say 'Christmas' without a second thought. Can anyone speak to this? I am guessing this all came about in the 1980s.

Danny


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

Danny said:


> Oh And Philip, if you're wondering the reason 'why'...it's called 'political correctness'. No public entity wants to exclude anyone or offend anyone so they use the most generic term possible. Unlike Belgium, we have millions of non-Christians here. That's the reason why.
> 
> I have found myself wondering when this began. I assume in the 1960s businesses would say 'Christmas' without a second thought. Can anyone speak to this? I am guessing this all came about in the 1980s.
> 
> Danny


actually it came about much earlier for people in business, sending generic 'happy holidays' cards goes back to the 60s before all the pc stuff. i remember seeing these cards every where kmart to department stores


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## jeansguy (Jul 29, 2003)

Do you still wish people a 'Merry Christmas' when you see them on the street? Or do you defer to the more PC 'Happy Holidays!' I try my best to say 'Merry Christmas', but sometimes I feel so out of place doing it.

I used to get into discussions with friends who would say happy holidays, asking them, "What Holiday?", and then "Oh! Merry Christmas" when they responded. Sadly I feel like I have lost this battle.


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## clemsontiger (Jun 9, 2007)

young guy said:


> not if you Jewish, or Muslim or Hindu or ....


To be pc maybe we should simply refer to these as "religions" they maybe offensive.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

I'd really rather people not use the word "Christmas," since what we celebrate in America isn't Christmas at all but a poor bastardization of it.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

The one that really gets me: At a Christmas tree farm we visited after Thanksgiving, all the signs and staff said, "Happy Holidays". At a Christmas tree farm. The only reason to be there is to buy a Christmas tree. To celebrate Christmas. If there was any safe place in the world to say the word Christmas, shy of the manger, it would be a Christmas tree farm!

JB


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

Merry Christmas everyone!


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

*Let's win the war on Christmas this year.*

"If you say I can't deck my halls, I'll deck you myself" Toby Keith sings on Colbert:

https://www.colbertnation.com/the-c...23-2008/a-colbert-christmas--toby-keith-sings

Funny for PCs and unPCs alike.


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## NoPleats (Sep 28, 2008)

Danny said:


> Oh...it's called 'political correctness'....


Yes. And, if the Politically Correct factions can pressure society to control the language it uses, it naturally follows they are also controlling the way society thinks. I, for one, refuse. And that's why I'll wind up in a "Re-Education" Camp soon after the military begins rounding people up.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

Reddington said:


> Merry Christmas everyone!


Buon Natale!:icon_smile:

hbs


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## Philip12 (Aug 24, 2005)

Danny said:


> I find this ridiculous as well and I am Jewish.
> 
> I understand why, but it still seems a bit disingenuous to call it 'Holidays' or 'Season'. The fact is that this entire American cultural rhythm is based on Christmas, not any other holiday. I am fine with that and wish people would just say 'Christmas'.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Danny, for pointing out the obvious. I'm just wondering how the idea came about that non-Christans would be offended by the mere mention of the word "Christmas", when indeed everyone knows that's what we are talking about. It's all about self-sencorship.


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## JCrewfan (Nov 9, 2008)

I've never considered political correctness the raison d'etre for "Happy Holidays." It seems nothing more than a contracted form of "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year." It's a way to offer a greeting for both holidays, even if you're Christian. "Happy Holidays" doesn't take Christ out of Christmas; it simply acknowledges the holiday that comes a week later. And, of course, as a bonus, it doesn't alienate anyone from another religion. We are a diverse country in a diverse world, so why would we want to exclude others anyway? I really don't understand the recent push-back against the phrase.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Philip12 said:


> Thank you, Danny, for pointing out the obvious. I'm just wondering how the idea came about that non-Christans would be offended by the mere mention of the word "Christmas", when indeed everyone knows that's what we are talking about. It's all about self-sencorship.


Philip I think you'd have to live here to understand the way political correctness works in America. It's because everyone here worries about discrimination and inclusiveness. That's why when we celebrate as a country, we have to celebrate in a generic, all inclusive way.

No company wants to say 'Merry Christmas' for fear of excluding or turning-off non Christmas celebrators.

To get really deep about it, people actually want to conceptually change 'Christmas' into 'Holiday'. They want it to be a generic, all inclusive retail celebration...which is basically what it is. People who want to celebrate Jesus can do that in private on their own time...in the public sector it's 'Holiday'. 

I can't explain it any more than that. If you're searching for a more rigorous answer, then come on over and see for yourself.

Anyway this is not clothing related so we'd probably better let this thread go on its merry way....

Danny


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

While I think there is indeed much political correctness going on in terms of "sanitizing" holidays and language, I am not sure that Brooks Brothers is so far off base in using holiday season, or just season.

Certainly not mentioning Christmas at a Christmas tree farm is a bit ridiculous. I have lots of Jewish friends, but I do not know any who have actually purchased a Hannakah bush. I guess you could say that Christmas trees are actually a carried over pagan tradition of bringing live greenery in during the solstice, but that is not exactly good marketing to the target audience.

Brooks is a huge international corporation, with customers of all faiths. In NYC, I am sure that a large percentage of their customers are Jewish, Muslim, athiest, agnostic, or whatever. Same for most other major cities.

While I am very happy to celebrate the birth of Christ myself, I still purchase more generic "holiday" cards since so many of my friends and colleagues are of other faiths. I feel a bit strange about sending my Jewish friends a card that says, Merry Christmas. I guess that I could get two styles of cards, but I am not that organized.


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

JCrewfan said:


> We are a diverse country in a diverse world, so why would we want to exclude others anyway? I really don't understand the recent push-back against the phrase.


its all part of the imagined 'war on christmas' as pushed by fox news and those folks, if by some reason you dont say 'merry christmas' then they assume you are against christmas and anti christian and anti western civilization. some people say happy holidays because they dont know if the person they are speaking to is christian or athiest or whatever. saying happy holidays doesnt deny christmas it simply includes everyone else


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## zarathustra (Aug 24, 2006)

Simply put, it is just easier to say happy holidays to every one. this way i don't have to remember which of my friends are Jewish, but celebrate christmas in the pagan sense, which are Jewish and don't celebrate Christmas, who are atheist, and who actually celebrates Christmas. 

That doesn't even involve my clients.

I do admit, Joe's Christmas Tree example is quite ironic. Perhaps they could only find Happy Holiday signs?


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

Well maybe not so much a bad word, but politically incorrect. I work in a retail establishment and we are required to say "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas". Personally it makes no difference to be because I'm not religious. I feel that it is more equal for everyone, because it takes everyone into account.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

The workplace in particular seems to call for increasingly generic expressions.

I've even noticed the word "holiday" being used in place of "Thanksgiving". 
As in, "How was your holiday?" 

Soon we'll hear things like, "How was your significant life event?"


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## Arnold Gingrich fan (Aug 8, 2008)

Philip12 said:


> Is "Christmas" a trad word?


Is "Xmas" a Trad way to spell it?

Is "Yuletide" more Trad to say than "the season"?


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Arnold Gingrich fan said:


> Is "Xmas" a Trad way to spell it?
> 
> Is "Yuletide" more Trad to say than "the season"?


Ding ding ding!

Let's end this now...this is the kind of annoying, ridiculous stuff that appears here that needs to stop. This is a forum about clothing.

Danny


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## Arnold Gingrich fan (Aug 8, 2008)

True. My point, which you got, was that this thread's subject isn't especially Trad. The thread belongs in The Interchange section, if anywhere.

.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Is it Trad to keep a thread going with posts criticizing its un-Traditude?

Is THIS post Trad?

Crap


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## Arnold Gingrich fan (Aug 8, 2008)

Joe Beamish said:


> Is it Trad to keep a thread going with posts criticizing its un-Traditude?


How about criticizing it for not being particularly clothing-related? "This is a forum about clothing." - Danny


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

In Hong Kong, where only a small fraction of people are Christians, X-Mas is widely celebrated and people say "Merry Christmas" w/o reservation. There have been large Christmas displays up in the stores and on the sides of skyscrapers since early November.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I don;t want to be too political.

But I will say, in BB's defense, that even pre-PC era I heard "season" used to refer to the whole spectacle that begins at around thanksgiving and goes through Christmas eve, Christmas, boxing day, new years eve, and new years day.

I frequently use the word "season", not out of PCness, but to denote prtty much all the celebrations around the month of December.
For example, "I really love this season", or "We're really busy this season."
whereas on Christmas (or to someone I'm seeing for the last time before Christmas) I'd say "Merry Christmas."


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I don;t want to be too political.
> 
> But I will say, in BB's defense, that even pre-PC era I heard "season" used to refer to the whole spectacle that begins at around thanksgiving and goes through Christmas eve, Christmas, boxing day, new years eve, and new years day.
> 
> ...


That was my thought. I don't gear up for Christmas for two weeks. But the season of parties, cocktails and lazy lunches goes from now until Jan 1. Lots of us like the "season" more than Christmas.


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## CrescentCityConnection (Sep 24, 2007)

Green3 said:


> That was my thought. I don't gear up for Christmas for two weeks. But the season of parties, cocktails and lazy lunches goes from now until Jan 1. Lots of us like the "season" more than Christmas.


The reason for the season is Christmas. I unapologetically say Merry Christmas. It is a sad day in my opinion when, oh well never mind. I am not going to get off on a tangent as to how our society has evolved (for lack of a better word) to the present state. The older I get the less tolerant I am of all the PC BS. It infuriates me.

PS-Green3 this is not directed at you.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Philip12 said:


> On its website Brooks Brothers invites us to "celebrate the season." The ad features a Christmas tree, so I can assume "season" has become synonymous with "Christmas".
> 
> What about spring, summer and fall, are they still "seasons" to be celebrated, too?
> 
> ...


There's also "resort" season, which is when one can wear pastels in the middle of winter. 

In the context of Brooks Brothers, I read the word "season" to mean the period from Thanksgiving through New Year's Eve when people are likely to go to a lot of festive occasions that require dressing up.


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

::::::


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## Acacian (Jul 10, 2007)

Well, I'm still sending "Merry Christmas" cards to all my consulting clients this year, just as I always do. 

None of them have fired me yet for receiving an actual Christmas card rather than a generic corporate greeting card.


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## Arnold Gingrich fan (Aug 8, 2008)

Acacian said:


> Well, I'm still sending "Merry Christmas" cards to all my consulting clients this year, just as I always do.


Interesting. It begs the question: if you had an important client whom you knew to be a practicing Jew, would you send him/her a "Happy Hannukah" card instead?


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Arnold Gingrich fan said:


> Interesting. It begs the question: if you had an important client whom you knew to be a practicing Jew, would you send him/her a "Happy Hannukah" card instead?


My Christmas cards say "Merry Christmas" inside them. No other printed text. I'm sending them in the spirit of celebrating Christmas.

I have two people that I have to send alternate cards to - one is Jewish, and he gets a Hannukah card. The other grew up on an Indian reservation and was traumatized by overzealous missionaries, so he has an open hostility to people being overtly Christian. I find him some other sort of card, which this year didn't even look like something appropriate to winter, let alone Christmas.

Jews don't traditionally send Hannukah cards. That's a fabrication of the card manufacturers. If I had a signficant number of non-Christians on my card list, I'd consider sending Happy New Year cards.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)




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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I'd rather say Happy Holidays than Merry Christmas,that way you're observing all the holidays instead of just one.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

I had a older Jewish client who lived in Manhattan. I sent her a Happy Hanukkah card.

She sent me a card, too. A *Happy Christmas* card. Although this may not be a rare expression, it was the first one I'd ever seen in my 52 years and I got quite a kick out of it.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

Joe Beamish said:


> The workplace in particular seems to call for increasingly generic expressions.
> 
> I've even noticed the word "holiday" being used in place of "Thanksgiving".
> As in, "How was your holiday?"
> ...


Have you also noticed how the meaning of Thanksgiving is being changed?

The meaning of the holiday is to give thanks to God for blessings received.

However, I lost track of the number of ads this year that said the point of Thanksgiving was to be "thankful for our [troops; police; firefighters; emergency responders; teachers; union workers; government employees; add your choice here]." Not that all of these people don't deserve thanks and gratitude for what they do, but again it's simply secularizing the actual meaning of the holiday.


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## Arnold Gingrich fan (Aug 8, 2008)

Miket61 said:


> My Christmas cards say "Merry Christmas" inside them. No other printed text. I'm sending them in the spirit of celebrating Christmas.
> 
> I have two people that I have to send alternate cards to - one is Jewish, and he gets a Hannukah card. The other grew up on an Indian reservation and was traumatized by overzealous missionaries, so he has an open hostility to people being overtly Christian. I find him some other sort of card, which this year didn't even look like something appropriate to winter, let alone Christmas.
> 
> Jews don't traditionally send Hannukah cards. That's a fabrication of the card manufacturers. If I had a signficant number of non-Christians on my card list, I'd consider sending Happy New Year cards.


That's the way to do it! There's a fine line between being considerate and well-mannered, and going to PC extremes. You stay within reason, and are a "class act".

.


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## Arnold Gingrich fan (Aug 8, 2008)

Relayer said:


> I had a older Jewish client who lived in Manhattan. I sent her a Happy Hanukkah card.
> 
> She sent me a card, too. A *Happy Christmas* card. Although this may not be a rare expression, it was the first one I'd ever seen in my 52 years and I got quite a kick out of it.


Both of you are class acts, and show the true spirit of the holidays: peace, tolerance and mutual respect.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Slams my iron age, reproduction longsword onto computer desk.
The Christmas tree is not pagan. Pagan, or paganos is a greek word refering to people of the country. You know, rural boobs who dress in brown and antique their sandals, stuff like that.
No, the xmas tree comes from ancient germanic peoples ( those guys across the Rhine that wiped out a legion in a forest, forever saving Northern Europe from more latin languages and chariots that ewventually gave us Fiat. 
The trees were first sacrificed to deep waterways to WOTAN
and a bunch of other kraut sounding gods and goddesses fighting each other, Bigfoots named Grendle and providing inspiration for Wagner.
The germans brought trees in at Christmas as a traditional memory of this sacrifice. It spread, first to England via those germans brought in as kings and the sadly forgotten Christmas Truce of WW1 when soldiers crossed No mans Land with small, candle lit trees as gifts and symbols of truce.
But all of this to be truly PC should be automatically translated by Andy.
It's called being bilingual, which in California doesn't mean German, but spanish, or french in Quebec.
All I know, is my jewish aunt puts up a tree with blue lights, cals it her Channukah tree and says " why waste a perfectly good holiday?'
And my Rabbi delights in saying Merry Christmas after I say Shabbot Shalom and happy Channukah, and asks me how my wierd jewish sect is doing with the teachings of Rebi Yeshua, and did I notice all the indians putting up lights for their festival?


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## SlowE30 (Mar 18, 2008)

To be safe, this year I'll just send Kwanza cards to everyone.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

SlowE30 said:


> To be safe, this year I'll just send Kwanza cards to everyone.


even if they're not African American?


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Howard said:


> even if they're not African American?


The best part about Kwanzaa is that you can get all your gifts at the after-Christmas sales.

Except this year, when the after-Christmas sales started in November.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

It always amazes me the intolerant demands we be tolerant of their intolerances.

In schools why not have Christmas programs that include hanukkah and some others so the children can learn about others and learn how to get along instead of anti-education by abolishment.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Why not leave school to teach MATH and SCIENCE so we aren't falling ever farther behind other countries?
Why not expect our churches,temples,synagogs to teach our children moral values.
My rebi would have made a terrible Driver's Ed teacher ( thankfully, he walks all the time.)
Conversely, the sociology teacher who 'taught' driver's ed couldn't handle his own religion, let alone have the competence to explore others.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> Why not leave school to teach MATH and SCIENCE so we aren't falling ever farther behind other countries?
> Why not expect our churches,temples,synagogs to teach our children moral values.
> My rebi would have made a terrible Driver's Ed teacher ( thankfully, he walks all the time.)
> Conversely, the sociology teacher who 'taught' driver's ed couldn't handle his own religion, let alone have the competence to explore others.


Are you saying that the 1 hour Christmas program that came around once a year ruined your education because you weren't studing MATH and SCIENCE for the 1 hour?

And that one hour the morals of 'peace on earth and good will toward all men' destroyed the school system?

Glad I'm not you.

I don't know of any Christians that attack Christianity.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

WA said:


> I don't know of any Christians that attack Christianity.


How about Mormons, Baptists, and other faiths that believe that if you're not of their particular denomination, you're not going to be saved?

A Catholic friend who teaches in a public school that has a lot of Baptists often has to explain that yes, Catholics are Christians.

It's a church headed by the successor to Peter, who was chosen by Jesus himself to lead the church. Duh.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Miket61 said:


> The best part about Kwanzaa is that you can get all your gifts at the after-Christmas sales.
> 
> Except this year, when the after-Christmas sales started in November.


But,they'll never have an after Kwanzaa sale,you'll never seen that,just for the african-americans only.


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*19 days till Holiday!*



Beresford said:


> Have you also noticed how the meaning of Thanksgiving is being changed?
> The meaning of the holiday is to give thanks to God for blessings received.


I'm pretty sure it's about thanking the Indians. It's always about the Indians.

Christmas is a day (or twelve) and a season is a season (in this case from mid-October till mid-December). Obviously you commercialize the event of longer duration.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Miket61 said:


> How about Mormons, Baptists, and other faiths that believe that if you're not of their particular denomination, you're not going to be saved?


I already said Mormons are not. I don't know of any Baptist that say they are the only ones. They recognize some other denomination and some non-denomination.



> It's a church headed by the successor to Peter, who was chosen by Jesus himself to lead the church. Duh.


Does anybody other than Catholics believe that? Besides Catholics begin until about 300 years later. When you look at other scripture about this and start putting the pieces together what does it really say? Another problem, how come the Catholics are breaking one of the 10 commandments with all those idols in their buildings. How do you explain all those south of the border people asking me if I'm Christain or Catholic? I thought Catholics are suppose to be both.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Hands WA a airline ticket and enough cash to buy a hammer and museum entrance.
Go smash that nasty old Catholic idol La Pieta a second time.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*It is the eating season*

It is the eating season, which starts on Halloween/Dia de los Muertes and runs till New Year's Eve, CE.

As to when "happy holidays" began being used, I remember hearing the expression in the late 50's or early 60's. I liked it as it seemed open and inclusive.

Seems to me that most of the pushing about xmas comes from fundamentalist Christians.

Being an atheist since very early childhood hasn't kept me from enjoying the trees, lights and decorations, Advent calendars with chocolates, lumenarias/farolitas, dradels, festive meals, giving and getting presents, thinking about the various seasonal myths associated with the solstice, and, of course, the music. I usually manage to recite Utah Phillips's IWW version of the Doxology. Being culturally Episcopalian, I am familiar with the tune. I also like to listen to Dylan Thomas reciting "A Child's Christmas in Wales." A couple of years ago a friend and I made 20 quarts of mince meat. The pies were very good.

For a few years I cut a linoleum block and made cards. The images were usually trees or electric trains. One year I did an orange tree. I cheated, though, and colored the oranges by hand rather than doing a third block.

On the North Coast crab is a part of the eating season as crab season starts around xmas.

Season's Greetings,
Gurdon


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

WA said:


> I already said Mormons are not.


You did? Where? Are not what? Mormons are not Christians? The Church of _Jesus Christ_ of Latter-Day Saints isn't Christian?



> I don't know of any Baptist that say they are the only ones. They recognize some other denomination and some non-denomination.


Maybe you don't know any Baptists?



> Does anybody other than Catholics believe that? Besides Catholics begin until about 300 years later. When you look at other scripture about this and start putting the pieces together what does it really say?


I've attended Episcopal, Lutheran, and Presbyterian services, and they all read the Nicene Creed, which refers to a holy Apostolic church - a church founded by Jesus when he appointed Peter as the first Pope. The Reformation is based on the belief that the Catholic Church has strayed from the true teachings of Christ.



> Another problem, how come the Catholics are breaking one of the 10 commandments with all those idols in their buildings.


I've been going to Catholic churches all my life. I've seen depictions of saints, and of Jesus and Mary. I've seen allegorical depictions of God and the Holy Spirit. I have never yet seen an idol.



> How do you explain all those south of the border people asking me if I'm Christian or Catholic? I thought Catholics are suppose to be both.


Maybe by "Christian" they mean "Christian," in quotes, referring to someone who focuses more on slamming other people's religions and telling scandalous lies about them than actually following the teachings of Jesus.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I once had to wait while my business partner Bob went to talk with his priest.
Unknown to me, my exaust system was damaged by this big old rock we bottomed out on doing our last desert survey.
For a split second I swear I was floating above everything looking down.
Next thing I know, I'm laid out on the grass, my collar loosened and Bob and a very concerned priest kneeling over me.
"uh, what happened?"
The kindly priest said "My son, you Idled your car and had an auto body experience."
I've noticed a failing in myself, and by extension others lately.
We seem to be doing an awfull lot of worrying about what the other guy is, or is not doing in the religosity department.
We need to attend to our own internal ministry first.
I've heard a rumour that giant Paul Bunyand statue in Dakota is made of Lutheran casserole, their clandestine answer to LDS 2 year food supply and surplus MREs.
Personally, my exitement at Christmas revolves around the wonder food with a bad PR, the fruitcake.
I get out my old frog gigging spear, sharpen the three prongs and wait for the annual migration to the ancient dumpster breeding grounds.I've extended my bulk food buying many a week with this bounty.
There is one I cannot consume. I brought it in, and damned if it didn't have a image of our own Andy plain to see ion the nuts and dates.
It's sitting in my closet next to the saucer of pipe tobacco.
I think his image scares away the moths.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Kav said:


> I once had to wait while my business partner Bob went to talk with his priest.
> Unknown to me, my exaust system was damaged by this big old rock we bottomed out on doing our last desert survey.
> For a split second I swear I was floating above everything looking down.
> Next thing I know, I'm laid out on the grass, my collar loosened and Bob and a very concerned priest kneeling over me.
> ...


Wow. Stream of consciousness much?


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Pentheos said:


> Wow. Stream of consciousness much?


Can you think of a _better_ way to end this thread?

Actually, there's _one_ better way...​
Merry Christmas, Everyone!


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Miket61 said:


> Maybe you don't know any Baptists?


I know plenty of Baptist. My Moms side of the family is nearly all Baptist. The first Church I remember going to is non other than Baptist. Yes, four years. Moms sister married a Mennonite. My Dad is Pentecostal. My Dads father was a Pentecostal preacher. Sounds like you really don't have a clue what Baptist believe. Kav certainly doesn't. I prefer Pentecostal, any day, to anything else.

I enjoy Santa Clause and Rudolph the red noise reindeer, even though I don't believe in either of them.
Merry Christmas.


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

Miket61 said:


> I've been going to Catholic churches all my life. I've seen depictions of saints, and of Jesus and Mary. I've seen allegorical depictions of God and the Holy Spirit. I have never yet seen an idol.


As a Catholic, it does make me uneasy seeing people kneeling before statues or touching them as though they have mystical qualities. They are purely symbolic in my understanding. One could argue that every Nativity scene or crucifix is a taboo graven image...


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> Merry Christmas, Everyone!


Merry Christmas to you too Mike.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^Wow, I feel a bit like Robinson Caruso. This is the third thread this morning, in which folks have been wishing everyone a Merry Christmas. Did I fall asleep last night and sleep away the remaining 17 days before Christmas(!)? If so, Merry Christmas to all!


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I am sitting on the tarmac of Santa Paula Airport manning a table and enjoying access to a fully functional computer.
We had a morning prayer by a retired navy Chaplain, I think he's presbeterian, if it matters.
I missed orthodox liturgy with my priest's blessing, though today we honor the passing of the Russian patriarch in Moscow.But life is to be lived.
I'm wearing my single Hermes reserved for flying, my lucky 50 F Saint Exupery note in my wallet and a chipped mug of hot cofree. I hate drinking coffee out of anything but a well used ceramic mug, the mug of a humble man, maybe a carpenter, also made of clay?
Steve's bright yellow Stearman has just rolled out, his wife Barbara is trying not to cry seeing it and the hestitant start of gasoline,air and spark going tapoket tapoket tapoket before catching and running briefly at full throttle, sahking itself like a racehorse ready to run.
You can smell the oil mixed with lemon grove blossoms, some faceless woman wearing my fav, Chanel #5 and steam from my mug.
Cliff Robertson, who keeps 3 aircraft here just waved and then shook hands with one of 3 surviving Pearl harbour vets in our area.
It's going to be a great day, God's day, and part of the seasons and time spoken of so beautifully in the Bible.
And WA, show me one post where I've ever MENTIONED Baptists. I am always amazed how people can don buckets over their head and accuse other people of blindness.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> ^Wow, I feel a bit like Robinson Caruso. This is the third thread this morning, in which folks have been wishing everyone a Merry Christmas. Did I fall asleep last night and sleep away the remaining 17 days before Christmas(!)? If so, Merry Christmas to all!


or should I say Happy Festivus,Eagle.


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## TheGuyIsBack (Nov 6, 2008)

Danny said:


> I find this ridiculous as well and I am Jewish.
> 
> I understand why, but it still seems a bit disingenuous to call it 'Holidays' or 'Season'. The fact is that this entire American cultural rhythm is based on Christmas, not any other holiday. I am fine with that and wish people would just say 'Christmas'.
> 
> ...


Well the majority of the US is Christian so I don't see anything wrong with it.


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## welldressedfellow (May 28, 2008)

hbs midwest said:


> Buon Natale!:icon_smile:
> 
> hbs


Si,parlo Italiano?


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> As a Catholic, it does make me uneasy seeing people kneeling before statues or touching them as though they have mystical qualities. They are purely symbolic in my understanding. One could argue that every Nativity scene or crucifix is a taboo graven image...


Yes, entirely symbolic -- much like grandmothers who talk to or even kiss the photos of their grandchildren. None of those supplicants actually believes the statue is Jesus, Mary, or whatever. And before someone goes down the "pray to saints" path, yes Catholics pray to saints in the sense that they are asking the saint to pray for them -- much like one might ask a friend or loved one to pray for them.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

TheGuyIsBack said:


> Well the majority of the US is Christian so I don't see anything wrong with it.


So I believe the other half is jewish,Am I right?


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Howard said:


> So I believe the other half is jewish,Am I right?


Yes, Howard, you nailed it. By the way the third half is French.


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## Bay Area Baritone (Dec 2, 2008)

Mike Petrik said:


> Yes, Howard, you nailed it. By the way the third half is French.


Mr. Petrik, when you feed a troll, he tends to hang around. 

On the other hand, it would probably take a crowbar to disloge this particular entity.

B.A.B.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> And WA, show me one post where I've ever MENTIONED Baptists.


Looked at some back post and couldn't find any. Thought you wrote somewhere about them.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

One wonders what else evangelicals 'think' without acertaining facts.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> One wonders what else evangelicals 'think' without acertaining facts.


I didn't look at all the threads. Besides, nobody knows it all, including you. Whether under Baptist or Fundamentalist you have written enough that you clearly do misunderstand them. Even I don't understand them all, being there are various groups, and I only come from a few of them. Unless you are God good luck to fully understanding every religion on earth. Further, if you come from one group of beliefs it is very difficult not to use those beliefts to try to understand the others beliefs. So the frame work your working from is sometimes totally wrong. Even the way others use words- there all adapted to meet their beliefs, and how they connect scriptures and how those scriptures are connected and so on. When we only have a few pieces of the puzzel and we base those pieces according to a different groups beliefs then we misunderstand.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Oh, NOW I understand. Fundies and baptists, penties and charis don't believe only a few will be raptured after all the russian jews are returned to Israel via $300 donations with a love gift of a made in China plastic, glow in the dark, ark of the covenant.
And their return really won't effect the rebuilding of the temple mount as trip gear to force the return of jesus to destroy hordes of godless, russian orthodox soldiers from the East and North and anybody else they don't particularly like, like Barney and teletubbies.
I am SO SORRY,
I misunderstood you.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> Oh, NOW I understand. Fundies and baptists, penties and charis don't believe only a few will be raptured after all the russian jews are returned to Israel via $300 donations with a love gift of a made in China plastic, glow in the dark, ark of the covenant.
> And their return really won't effect the rebuilding of the temple mount as trip gear to force the return of jesus to destroy hordes of godless, russian orthodox soldiers from the East and North and anybody else they don't particularly like, like Barney and teletubbies.
> I am SO SORRY,
> I misunderstood you.


Sounds like a load of hate there Kav.

Perhaps you ought to go cry on your mommies lap.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

It's called reciprocity in anthropology WA. You've been banging away on every perceived threat to your own conceived notion of Christianity so long the romans probably handed some ancestor the hammer used to drive in 4 nails.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> It's called reciprocity in anthropology WA. You've been banging away on every perceived threat to your own conceived notion of Christianity so long the romans probably handed some ancestor the hammer used to drive in 4 nails.


What do you know about Christianity when you are a freaken stupid agnostic. If there is one thing upper education should have taught you is *shut up*, *sit down*, and *learn* instead of being Jackass stupid. What is a Jackass? Somebody who refuse to get wise. In other words somebody who stubbornly refuses to stop being a fool. When somebody writes about their religous background or any back ground you should shut up and listen and learn something instead of pretending to know something you obviouly don't know. When you have 3 pieces to a puzzel out of thousands or millions and think you know something, then that proves you are a through fool. I learned a long time ago to listen and learn from people who really do know something about something I really don't know.

What do you know about religion when you don't even have God? Nothing! All you do is make excuses about the Bible, as though it is a book of lies, with your disbelief, and then, accuse real Christians who do believe in the Bible. Some of the things you write about religion is so foolish I don't even see how a fool could be so foolish! If you really want to learn about Christianity then go to real Christians and learn from them, not from stupid people who are athists and agnostics wearing robes and other make believe Christianity pretending to be Christians. You don't even know how to learn.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

By the look of the scrape marks on your knuckles, I just found the missing link, assuring me the fame and fortune 
my degree failed to produce.
The theory of evolution continues it's academic progress and fine tuning.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Kav said:


> By the look of the scrape marks on your knuckles, I just found the missing link, assuring me the fame and fortune
> my degree failed to produce.
> The theory of evolution continues it's academic progress and fine tuning.


Is all you want to do is fight. It seems like you would be asking alot of questions about things you never learned. Take the theory of evolution, you never even listen to the scienticfic reason the other side says against it- that equals your brainwashed.

And like I said *If you have no God you have no religion*. The way you play religion is like little girls playing house with a bunch of dolls. I don't know any girls that play house or with dolls after the age of 10. So how do you explain your embarrasment? The religous background you come from hire atheist and agnostics, so the believers are leaving and the others discover they no longer have a reason to have a church building because they have no religion. The only religous groups that are growing are those who believe in a real God. Only an idiot would go to a pretend church with a pretend god. If the Bible is a book of lies why do you go to a pretend church and pretend to be holy? Why would anybody make a god that is dumber than man kind? If you are going to worship something dumber than you why not a slug instead? If you are going to worship something dumber than you how aren't you a complete idiot? Do I need to say more?


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

No, no need to say more.
You're on ignore.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

At least the Mennonites have clean feet.

Regards,
Gurdon


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