# How Many Yards of Fabric for a shirt?



## undarted (Jul 5, 2005)

How many yards of cotton fabric does a men's dress shirt usually require? 

And does it matter if it's a home project or professionally made?


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

36" = 3 yards

45" = 2.5 yards

60" = 2 yards

more or less depending on size. Buy a little extra to be on the safe side.

Carl


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## undarted (Jul 5, 2005)

Thank you sir! I will try my hand at fashioning a dashing shirt and will post the results here, to the delight of all you discerning and sometimes-more-than-just-constructive-criticism gentlemen. No, I have no idea how to make a shirt, but I am planning on reverse-engineering it. If the russians and chinese could do it, by God, as an American I will reverse-engineer. 

The goal? To create the greatest ocbd shirt ever. EVER. No two will ever be alike, even if you asked me to.

I am sure this will be the best advertising for Kabbaz' shirts EVER.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Don't tell anyone, but reverse engineering is how I learned to make a shirt. 
Just read these two articles from right to left; bottom to top. They'll make total sense and speed you on your way. :icon_smile_wink:


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Another resource that others have found helpful: _Shirtmaking: Developing Skills for Fine Sewing_ by David Page Coffin.


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## Sam Hober (Jan 2, 2005)

Milesfides,

Go for it.

The number one skill you will need is patience, everything else will come to you as you go along.

Good luck.


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

medwards said:


> Another resource that others have found helpful: _Shirtmaking: Developing Skills for Fine Sewing_ by David Page Coffin.


I would second that recommendation.

Even if you have on intention of sewing a stitch yourself, it will helpl you to understand how a shirt ought to be made and suggest some interesting (and some weird) possibilities.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

medwards said:


> Another resource that others have found helpful: _Shirtmaking: Developing Skills for Fine Sewing_ by David Page Coffin.





Cantabrigian said:


> I would second that recommendation.
> 
> Even if you have on intention of sewing a stitch yourself, it will helpl you to understand how a shirt ought to be made and suggest some interesting (and some weird) possibilities.


I would vehemently disagree. Milesfides wants to reverse engineer a shirt and thus create one correctly. There are egregious errors in Mr. Coffin's book which will be extremely counterproductive to the effort.

An avid reader of many of the publications of Mr. Coffin's employer, Taunton Publications (_Fine Wookworking, Fine Cooking_ and more) I would venture to say that they are the finest publisher of their type in the U.S. if not the world. I would rate no other higher. Moreover, Coffin's writing skills are excellent as is his knowledge of general sewing technique.

Not so his shirt book. The errors are many and they are errors of substance, not style. There are mistakes in method which are not preferences in technique. They will set the amateur off on an incorrect course and it will be a course from which reversal is impossible.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

So you don't recommend it? 

As I noted, others have said it to be useful. It certainly helped me understand shirt construction, but if Alex suggests that it may take you in the wrong direction, I would certainly take heed of his advice.


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## undarted (Jul 5, 2005)

I just finished reading both pages Mr. Kabbaz, and it was a lot of fun and informative, your sense of humor and your passion for what you do made it a very easy read. I appreciated the way you simplified the process, mostly in layman terms, very objective and honest. I was surprised at how I was able to follow 99% of what you were saying.

Hm...I might check out that book if it has good sewing information, as I have a regular Juki sewing machine circa mid-1980s (mother's), but I have never used it. 

For now, I think i will try a casual shirt (tentatively called 'THE ULTIMATE OCBD') since I don't have ready access to a 12-ton press. One day, I hope I will be your guest in the East Hamptons.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

medwards said:


> So you don't recommend it?
> 
> As I noted, others have said it to be useful. It certainly helped me understand shirt construction, but if Alex suggests that it may take you in the wrong direction, I would certainly take heed of his advice.


 No, in that respect I agree. It will certainly help you in understanding shirt construction.

The problem is more technical in nature and arises when one tries to use the book as an instruction manual for sewing a shirt. It contains methods which not only sound logical but can be forced to work. Where I see enormous difficulty is that only those who make shirts professionally (and by that I mean fully qualified hands-on shirtmakers such as Jim Hamilton, Sahmanian the elder, Stanley Seewaldt, M. Colban, and a few others) will realize the fallacy of those improperly instructed construction steps. The amateur will merely follow the directions and the result will be a much-more-difficult-to-sew yet inferior chemise.


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## 44XT (Aug 2, 2005)

I too am contemplating making shirts, because it is almost impossible to find casual shirts with a 37" sleeve. I have read, and thought that the David Coffin book was good, but now with Alex's insight's I am having doubts. Can anyone suggest a good primer book that describes making a simple shirt. Did Singer or anyone else produce a "basic" book?


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## jsprowls9 (Jun 24, 2005)

*Reverse Engineering of Shirts*

Singer did produce a book on the subject for the home-sewing market, though the exact title escapes me at the moment. I will say that Singer, Pfaff, and several other machine manufacturers produce what are called _service line sheets_ for the industrial sector of their business. While these are geared to sell machines, they do provide other interesting information that any machine operator (be it a home or factory unit) can benefit from.

I have a rather large collection of Singer service line sheets given me by my grandmother; and, I've also collected many others from trade shows and speaking with equipment purveyors. The best book on the subject, I believe, is by Frederick Kogos entitled 'How to Make Men's and Boys Shirts'. It may also have been published under: Apparel Institute, Inc. or Kogos International Corp. All addresses point to Great Neck, NY.

The apparel industry is littered with many self-published works, Kogos is no exception. In the 1950s, when his company was actively publishing, he operated a CMT house and consulted for many large garment factories. He is an operations guy, so the information in this book includes some pattern drafting information by Warmkessel and discusses topics like: thread & needle selection, seam construction, thread abradement, best practices, standard procedures, etc.

What I like most about this book, however, is that it lays out the sequence of operations in much the same was as the Singer service line sheet does. It describes the technical operation along side pattern drafting and garment engineering. The information presented is largely unbiased (some does exist) with empirical information. Combined, these facts allows the user to determine how best to apply it whether as a hobbyist, a tailor, or a factory sewing machine operator.

As Alex points out, reverse engineering is the best way to learn about garment construction. This is why tailors progress through an alterations component in their training - they need to learn how garments are technically designed to go together before they can learn to cut patterns. A patternmaker and industry consultant I know of has published several articles on reverse engineering of shirts - this information is freely available: . Start with this post, which is the end of the series; but, links to all other pertinent posts in the series are provided within.

Another of Kathleen's posts also shares some several of our budding amateurs might enjoy adding to their notebook.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

David's recent participation in this board has caused me to review my thoughts. His statement that "his methods are strictly aimed at the home sewer, versus being an instruction manual for professionals", has somewhat tempered my reaction. Though I personally feel that a number of the techniques shown are much more difficult than necessary and that others will result in an inferior garment, his methods will certainly work to accomplish the goal of creating a shirt.


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## jsprowls9 (Jun 24, 2005)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> [David's] statement that "his methods are strictly aimed at the home sewer, versus being an instruction manual for professionals", has somewhat tempered my reaction. Though I personally feel that a number of the techniques shown are much more difficult than necessary and that others will result in an inferior garment, his methods will certainly work to accomplish the goal of creating a shirt.


One will most certainly obtain a shirt through the practice of these techniques. However, I submit that sewing is much more enjoyable and effective when one practices the concept of "standard work".

Perhaps I was too harsh in presenting my frustration. But, as a teacher and a professional patternmaker, I am frequently taken off-base when designers or students (who have no practical frame of reference) defend their wasteful habits by citing this book.

As a tailor, my price matrices are based on standard work measurements in order to derive a fair selling price for my product. As such, any inefficiency I introduce into the process detracts from my earning potential - as I and my mentors believe it should be.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

*juki*



milesfides said:


> I just finished reading both pages Mr. Kabbaz, and it was a lot of fun and informative, your sense of humor and your passion for what you do made it a very easy read. I appreciated the way you simplified the process, mostly in layman terms, very objective and honest. I was surprised at how I was able to follow 99% of what you were saying.
> 
> Hm...I might check out that book if it has good sewing information, as I have a regular Juki sewing machine circa mid-1980s (mother's), but I have never used it.
> 
> For now, I think i will try a casual shirt (tentatively called 'THE ULTIMATE OCBD') since I don't have ready access to a 12-ton press. One day, I hope I will be your guest in the East Hamptons.


nice machine for your purpose but i bet it has not been oiled in 20 years.
check the instruction book and oil. dont run it dry.


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## Vogateer (Dec 11, 2008)

*Original pages to be put back up?*

I have a couple of questions for Alexander Kabbaz. I'm glad you've been able to upgrade your site, and I was hoping the pages you linked to in this article might be put back up so we can see them again.

Also, do you have any specific practices you would recommend someone change if they wanted to use Mr. Coffin's book to make their own shirts?

As a non-profit worker I would appreciate the ability to be able to make at least a few of my own shirts, as non-profit wages do not afford fine clothing, but I do want to make an effort. :icon_smile:


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## jazz_tini (Jan 30, 2009)

I too would love to read the missing articles:


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

I bought Coffin's book recently and I'm also curious about Mr. Kabbaz's specific criticisms of the book's shirt assembly instructions. I assume it's got to be in part based on Coffin's suggestion that you assemble the cuffs and collars attached to shirt body/sleeves rather than make them first and then attach, but what do I know?

I'd also second (third?) the request to restore the informational articles cited above.


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