# Best source for "basic" OCBD? Not Land's End!



## mualphapiper (Dec 13, 2009)

Hi folks! 

I buy clothing sporadically, tending to focus on the basics, wearing them out and then buy new when necessary. As it seems, my basic OCBD's bought a few years ago are entering their twilight years, with fraying around the collar and cuffs, and two with holes in the elbow. Not problem for slightly rumpled daily trad wear, but I'll need to be getting a few more in white, blue and maybe uni stripe.

I was horrified (not really, mildly disappointed, actually) to find that LE seems to have dumped their basic OCBD (cotton must iron) in favor of a SML sized blend OCBD and a whole barrel of patterned non-iron basic OCBD's. Since I haven't been shopping for shirts in a while, I'm a little out of touch with what's currently available. Are Hyde Park shirts worth the extra money for the advertised better durability? I feel like the shirts I have are wearing out before their time (2 yrs). I only hang dry them!

Where are trads buying must-iron OCBD's these days? BTW I had my budget in the $25-30 per shirt range. I'm an athletic build 38R with a 7 in drop, so I'll probably look at a tailored fit option. I don't want to go non-iron, but I may have to if I can't find a better source.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

If you don't wear your OCBDs with ties, the Hyde Park is not a terrible option when on sale. The "new" stingy collar makes it difficult to recommend as an all-around option, though, and the ever-climbing price doesn't make it any more attractive. The best budget option that meets your requirements is still, IMO, the Brooks OCBD during either the Christmas or Father's Day sales when they can be had for about $40 each.


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## Ματθαῖος (Jun 17, 2011)

That's interesting. I really like the ones I get at Land's End:
https://www.landsend.com/products/mens-long-sleeve-tailored-broadcloth-shirt/id_250857?sku_0=::WHI

The 16.5 x 35 off the rack fits me like it was tailored. I guess YMMV.

Matthew


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

The Brooks Brothers OCBD is now priced at $95, or three for $225. Even when buying multiple shirts during the very best (infrequent) sales, that $40 price won't be achieved, especially when adding in shipping. We're looking at about double the price of what the OP wishes to spend...

I wish LE would bring back the basic OCBD, and reconstitute the Hyde Park to the way it was in the 1980s. I feel like traditionalists are being squeezed from all sides!


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

At the price point you're looking for you might have a tough search ahead of you. Let's not forget cotton had a price spike on commodity markets a while back and I think BB's recent price increase reflects it working through the supply chain. I'm going to try Kamakura shirts when it's time to add to my OCBD section in my closet.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

I feel like I'm starting to become a shill for JAB, but their ocbd is comparable quality to the Hyde Park, and since these are being phased out, get 'em while they last. I own the tall version of these shirts in blue, white, and ecru and have been satisfied with them (although the collar is a little stiff). If need be, have a tailor take in the body. There isn't a better deal to be had.

https://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Product_11001_10050_342771


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Bandit, thanks for the scoop on the JAB ocbds. Nothing left in white but had my size in blue. Haven't seen prices like that since LE discontinued the superpinpoint.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

I've had good luck with the Ralph Lauren Polo OCBDs I've found at the outlet malls, though you have to put up with their silly logo on the chest.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> I feel like I'm starting to become a shill for JAB, but their ocbd is comparable quality to the Hyde Park, and since these are being phased out, get 'em while they last. I own the tall version of these shirts in blue, white, and ecru and have been satisfied with them (although the collar is a little stiff). If need be, have a tailor take in the body. There isn't a better deal to be had.
> 
> https://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Product_11001_10050_342771


How is the collar point length? And is the collar lined and fused? (But @ $14.99. :icon_smile: )


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Bandit44 said:


> I feel like I'm starting to become a shill for JAB, but their ocbd is comparable quality to the Hyde Park, and since these are being phased out, get 'em while they last. I own the tall version of these shirts in blue, white, and ecru and have been satisfied with them (although the collar is a little stiff). If need be, have a tailor take in the body. There isn't a better deal to be had.
> 
> https://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Product_11001_10050_342771


I've wondered about these. Are they real, untreated, must-iron cotton?

To the OP - BB OCBDs last so long that over time they may be cheaper than T-shirts. Investing in several to get you through a week, or whatever your laundry cycle is, is probably worth it.

Otherwise it may be worth trolling eBay for BB or other classic makes. I recently bought an old LL Bean for $7 that's _at least_ as nice.

Dinky collars aside, Hyde Parks are decent shirts and well worth the money on sale.

If SML sizing fits you, and it does me, BB "346" shirts from the outlets can be fine. The last ones I bought were essentially the same as a made-in-USA 132Q, but SML-sized and made in Malaysia. I think I paid $45ea on sale. Has anyone bought these lately?


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

Brio1 said:


> How is the collar point length? And is the collar lined and fused? (But @ $14.99. :icon_smile: )


+1 on the OCBD. I'm wearing one right now, from the Executive line, and the collar roll is terrific. I'm not an expert and am not sure if it's lined and fused.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Points measure 3.25 inches. The collars are both lined and fused, and as I mentioned, initially quite stiff, but the fabric is untreated/must iron. I try to be frugal where I can be, so for me, this is one place where I am willing to sacrifice. Plus, I'm a 16.5 x 37 tall, so my choices are limited. They've held up quite well to repeated machine wash/dry and ironing with minimal shrinkage, better than my Hyde Parks but not as well as my Gitman Cambridge oxfords. No doubt about it, these are a step down from BB, so I'm hesitant to enthusiastically recommend because we don't all have the same expectations about the value/quality ratio. On the other hand, JAB stores are everywhere and I've never had a problem with their return policy.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I bought a big pile of the JABs a while back. (They were on sale!!! Gosh!!!)

The collars are definitely stiff, but they improve with washing. Good roll.

A good deal when you get them down to $20 per or whatever it worked out to.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> Points measure 3.25 inches. The collars are both lined and fused, and as I mentioned, initially quite stiff, but the fabric is untreated/must iron. I try to be frugal where I can be, so for me, this is one place where I am willing to sacrifice. Plus, I'm a 16.5 x 37 tall, so my choices are limited. They've held up quite well to repeated machine wash/dry and ironing with minimal shrinkage, better than my Hyde Parks but not as well as my Gitman Cambridge oxfords. No doubt about it, these are a step down from BB, so I'm hesitant to enthusiastically recommend because we don't all have the same expectations about the value/quality ratio. On the other hand, JAB stores are everywhere and I've never had a problem with their return policy.


Thank you very much. I ordered one in blue. (I shouldn't quibble over $14.99.)  _ I put the pedal to the metal, good buddy!_


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Patrick06790 said:


> I bought a big pile of the JABs a while back. (They were on sale!!! Gosh!!!)
> 
> The collars are definitely stiff, but they improve with washing. Good roll.
> 
> A good deal when you get them down to $20 per or whatever it worked out to.


Thank you, Patrick. I value your opinion here on the forum. Take care.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I suggest investing in something nicer if you really want an OCBD that will last. BB are the standard, even if the collar isn't quite how it used to be.


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## ada8356 (Dec 14, 2007)

I just bought 4 BB OCBDs at the end of June (semiammual sale) and the price came to 4 for $190.80 ($47.70/ea) before tax. Not too bad.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Jovan said:


> I suggest investing in something nicer if you really want an OCBD that will last. BB are the standard, even if the collar isn't quite how it used to be.


Yes, I own two dozen from BB. I'm not so sure about their offering in "blue" (too gray for my taste), so I'm always on the lookout for other shirtmakers that offer an OCBD in blue. However, with the recent price increase and attitude of certain employees I may look elsewhere for OCBDs. Perhaps it is time to order from Mercer.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Ratio Clothing is working on a new, longer, full roll button-down collar last I heard. The oxford shirts are $98 and made to order with five different sizing variables (or the option to send in finished measurements, which is great if you've nailed your shirt fits already). However, with a possible price increase in the future due to rising cotton costs, it's not a bad time to try them if you don't mind a slightly shorter, less rolled collar. They can also heighten the collar band, add a back button, or even make a flap pocket. I think they even do locker loops if requested. There's a lot of "secret" options that they haven't yet made available on the website, so just email if interested.

Did I mention made in USA by the same lovely people who make Brooks Brothers' OCBDs? I think it might even be the same fabric, it feels so similar.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I've thought a lot about threads like these - where a member with a low post count polls the community for answers - and I think that I've come to give less and less weight to their price targets as I do to their other concerns. One of the things that I believe most of us who have spent a long time participating (and purchasing) have discovered is that in today's market you're probably not going to find exactly what you want at any price. As your "budget" shrinks your range of options follows suit. I've heard it so many times over the years that I've been coming here that I'm often tempted to tell "newbies" to try experimenting by shopping without a budget. It's not that you might wind up falling in love with a $400 Kiton shirt, but more likely that you'll look at a $95-$125 model that you may have thought was completely out of reach, buy you find suits your build and other demands perfectly. Once you've established that you can then go about trying to find the best price or the most generous sale. 

As an example, I wear sport coats almost every day and bought dozens and dozens of jackets that weren't quite right because I had arbitrarily limited myself to $300 - a minuscule budget for tailored clothing. Then somewhere along the way I discovered Ralph Lauren's Made in Italy suits and sport coats and they were so utterly perfect that I haven't bought anything since. They retail for between $1,300-1,700, but I've never paid more than $600 for any one and have gotten a few on eBay for much less than that. 

Ultimately you're not spending from a limited stack of cash, but managing your cash-flow over time. Your pace of purchasing is just as arbitrary as your budget in that sense. If you need to keep 4 shirts in rotation, just buy more expensive ones over a longer period of time if that's what it takes. That and get creative with thrifting and eBay. 

As to the specifics - I also recommend Brooks Brothers. A $10 jump for a made in America shirt is nothing. Enjoy it before it's gone.


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## mualphapiper (Dec 13, 2009)

Trip, I agree on the philosophical and practical basis listed but I also find that when cash flow is limited, there is a certain point where "Making the best with what you have" comes into play. In this case, I do have a quite limited stack of cash, $300 to be exact, with which I need to update my worn professional wardrobe, not just shirts, before heading to graduate school. Additionally, my target price for shirts was not the least bit arbitrary either, $25-30 was very reasonably for Lands End basic must iron OCBD's. If I pay for two BB shirts at full price I'll have very little left to use on the khakis, socks, light jacket etc. I need.

I'll probably follow what you suggest in the long term, but building slowly, adding high quality garments one by one as the budget allows. For instance I replaced all my dress shoes with AE's a couple years ago. 

In any case, it sounds like, the answer is "No" there is no equivalent in that price range for the basic Lands End OCBD. I think I'll need to look at ebay.

Thank you all for your helpful advice.


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## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

$17.50 for a new shirt from Joseph A Bank (current clearance sale) is a great bargain. I don't see how you can do any better pricewise on eBay or thrifting.

https://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Product_11001_10050_342771


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I'd rather pay more for an irregular or slightly used BB OCBD than that much for something of JAB quality. A few years ago I sold a couple of my BB OCBDs that didn't fit and were washed a few times for $15 each (originally bought for $30 each from ArmyHardHat which is sadly no more). Everyone apparently thought it was a steal and asked why I was "giving them away".


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

Would it be possible for someone to post a link showing the BB OCBD. I seem to only be able to find no iron versions. I have two I love that were bought during clearance sales a few years ago.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Men > Dress Shirts > select "Supima Cotton"


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## mrfixit (Dec 30, 2012)

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/on/d...rothers-Site/default/Search-Show?q=oxford usa


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

mualphapiper said:


> Trip, I agree on the philosophical and practical basis listed but I also find that when cash flow is limited, there is a certain point where "Making the best with what you have" comes into play. In this case, I do have a quite limited stack of cash, $300 to be exact, with which I need to update my worn professional wardrobe, not just shirts, before heading to graduate school. Additionally, my target price for shirts was not the least bit arbitrary either, $25-30 was very reasonably for Lands End basic must iron OCBD's. If I pay for two BB shirts at full price I'll have very little left to use on the khakis, socks, light jacket etc. I need.


How many shirts do you _need_ before graduate school? Why do they _need_ to be must iron OCBDs? What's wrong with a point or spread collar, or a non-iron shirt, if it means a significant price difference? Are they compromises? Sure, but as an undergrad, I have decided that I need to be flexible. Some of us need to contort more than others.

I mean, don't get me wrong, if it were in the cards for me financially, then must-iron made in the USA BB OCBDs would be right up my alley. That ain't happening for the foreseeable future. The other OCBD options I've looked at require too much compromise around the collars. I _might_ go for some spread collar shirts from LE, CT, or TM Lewin. I'd rather have a decent spread collar shirt than an OCBD I'm not happy with.


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## mualphapiper (Dec 13, 2009)

"How many shirts do you need before graduate school? Why do they need to be must iron OCBDs? What's wrong with a point or spread collar, or a non-iron shirt, if it means a significant price difference? " 

I should clarify, I'm going to seminary and will be working full time as a pastoral assistant, thus the need for a professional wardrobe, so in this case 5-6 shirts ultimately, starting out with about 3. Must-iron OCBD is just personal preference.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

mualphapiper said:


> "How many shirts do you need before graduate school? Why do they need to be must iron OCBDs? What's wrong with a point or spread collar, or a non-iron shirt, if it means a significant price difference? "
> 
> I should clarify, I'm going to seminary and will be working full time as a pastoral assistant, thus the need for a professional wardrobe, so in this case 5-6 shirts ultimately, starting out with about 3. Must-iron OCBD is just personal preference.


Ah, I see. You have literally no shirts that aren't too worn to work into a rotation for a while?

As for khakis and socks, which you mentioned needing, I buy navy socks from Gold Toe for $10 a four-pack. I'll probably go for Uniqlo in the future, because I don't need any more navy socks. My khakis are from all over the place, but I reckon you can find khakis to fit any budget.


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## JoshT (Jul 31, 2010)

Interesting thread. Thank you to all the contributors.

Did I understand that correctly? Is JAB really discontinuing their OCBDs? If so, does anyone know why? It seems pretty surprising, especially as I would have thought that OCBDs would be a staple that they could rely on always being able to sell...


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

mrfixit said:


> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/on/d...rothers-Site/default/Search-Show?q=oxford usa


Thanks for the link!

I was especially entertained by the $195 "Black Fleece" OCBD. What a great wheeze! Had no idea Brooks Brothers had a comedy site.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

JoshT said:


> Interesting thread. Thank you to all the contributors.
> 
> Did I understand that correctly? Is JAB really discontinuing their OCBDs? If so, does anyone know why? It seems pretty surprising, especially as I would have thought that OCBDs would be a staple that they could rely on always being able to sell...


...especially now, while "preppy" is 'in"...


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

JoshT said:


> Is JAB really discontinuing their OCBDs? If so, does anyone know why? It seems pretty surprising, especially as I would have thought that OCBDs would be a staple that they could rely on always being able to sell...


It's possible they are just discontinuing their must-irons and going all non-iron.


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## mayostard (Mar 10, 2013)

I get the appeal of the non-iron pinpoints for most guys, but non-iron oxfords just blow my mind. Who is buying these things?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

People who can't stand wrinkles?


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> I feel like I'm starting to become a shill for JAB, but their ocbd is comparable quality to the Hyde Park, and since these are being phased out, get 'em while they last. I own the tall version of these shirts in blue, white, and ecru and have been satisfied with them (although the collar is a little stiff). If need be, have a tailor take in the body. There isn't a better deal to be had.
> 
> https://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Product_11001_10050_342771


It is $12.49 at the moment!


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Brio1 said:


> It is $12.49 at the moment!


I have no idea where you found that price; online, and at the local store, the JAB "Executive" OCBD sells for $19.99. At that price it seems to me to be a very good buy.


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

They were only at that price for a day I believe. I ordered 3 despite the fact that I'll probably never need to buy another shirt in my life I have so many.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

MaxBuck said:


> I have no idea where you found that price; online, and at the local store, the JAB "Executive" OCBD sells for $19.99. At that price it seems to me to be a very good buy.


Why, I found it by clicking upon the link, Mr. Buck. Perhaps the price has been fluctuating, sir. And yes the shirt is a good buy @ $12.49 - $19.99.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Jovan said:


> I suggest investing in something nicer if you really want an OCBD that will last. BB are the standard, even if the collar isn't quite how it used to be.


+1 Even if you have to buy used. I would rather wear a used BB OCBD (can be bought on the Thrift Exchange for $20 or less, shipped) than a new cheapo $35 shirt. They are both used, and clean after you run them through the washer.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Brio1 said:


> It is $12.49 at the moment!





mhj said:


> They were only at that price for a day I believe. I ordered 3 despite the fact that I'll probably never need to buy another shirt in my life I have so many.





Brio1 said:


> Why, I found it by clicking upon the link, Mr. Buck. Perhaps the price has been fluctuating, sir. And yes the shirt is a good buy @ $12.49 - $19.99.


Joseph A Bank is one of those stores where "at the moment" needs to be taken precisely literally.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

^

Smacks somewhat of a bait- and -switch at work here, yes?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Brio's pretty much nailed how JAB works.


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## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

I think I am in the minority here but I like the L.L. Bean non-iron OCBDs. To my non-expert eye the fabric is substantial and the non-wrinkle stuff that's applied makes it more so. It is definitely a heavier feeling shirt to wear, not at all like my Brooks Brothers shirts, which are much lighter and softer and which are also very nice for completely different reasons. I have many of these LLB shirts and they hold up well to home laundering without premature fraying. They are available in regular oxford and pinpoint oxford, with prices starting at $40 for basic solids and university stripes. All in all a lot of bang for the buck IMO.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Corcovado said:


> I think I am in the minority here but I like the L.L. Bean non-iron OCBDs. To my non-expert eye the fabric is substantial and the non-wrinkle stuff that's applied makes it more so. It is definitely a heavier feeling shirt to wear, not at all like my Brooks Brothers shirts, which are much lighter and softer and which are also very nice for completely different reasons. I have many of these LLB shirts and they hold up well to home laundering without premature fraying. They are available in regular oxford and pinpoint oxford, with prices starting at $40 for basic solids and university stripes. All in all a lot of bang for the buck IMO.


I'm a big fan as well. A few on here have complained that the LLB offerings are harsh on their skin - I think they need a big glass of man-up juice.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

LLB wears well. I still have a made in the USA non-iron model in rotation. Starting to pil a bit but they do break in very softly over the years.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Real men know how to iron shirts!


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I actually have one of the LL Bean non-irons. The sizing is a little odd, but they're super beefy. Doesn't hurt to have one in rotation. I usually wear it casually with the collar open.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

^

And unbuttoned, I'll bet. :icon_smile:

It's a pity that I didn't buy the university stripe in green while it was available.


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## Plainmike (Aug 8, 2012)

+1 LLBean OCBD the trim fit is still a bit big but...


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Just got the new LE Men's catalog and while I see they have Hyde Park's again, I noticed that the blue tattersall they show appears to have a collar that looks to have both shorter points and a wider spread than most OCBDs. I'd be interested to see if anyone else gets that impression.


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