# What Suit Under a Cap and Gown?



## Mercrutio (Apr 1, 2009)

Or no suit at all? 

A friend is graduating from law school, and he will be attending ceremonies and events on graduation day that are both indoors and outdoors. The school is in the South East, so the weather in mid May should be rather hot. The obligatory cap and gown are black with blue (is the blue portion a hood? or tunic?) Anyway, we disagreed about two things:

1) He says that he doesn't think it is appropriate to wear a suit, if only because of the heat and the extra covering from the cap and gown. He plans on wearing dress pants, an OCBD, and keeping a blue blazer and tie in his car. I think, on the other hand, that a suit is required for the formality of the occasion. I wore one under my gown when I graduated, for what that is worth.

2) He says that if he did wear a suit, he would wear a cotton or linen one, because of the heat. He has a Brooks in khaki that he'd wear, if it wouldn't throw off the cap and gown. I think that is unacceptable. Charcoal or light gray is the best solution (albeit in a light wool) because it would best go with the black and blue scheme of his cap and gown. 

So what do you think?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

When I graduated high school I wore a jacket under my robe... and wish I hadn't. I didn't visibly perspirate (thank God) but I definitely did around my armpits and felt uncomfortable in general. I suggest keeping the jacket close by for when the robe is taken off. Today the robes are made of polyester or nylon so they can be pretty warm.

I think a lightweight wool suit will be fine for the weather, especially with the trousers alone. Encourage him to wear a tie at least.


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

+1 for the tie with or without the jacket. the gowns tend to have enough of a "V-neck" that you would see the shirt collar and tie but not so much that you would see the jacket (approximately). What's under the gown shows up in the photos so I would say wear a collared shirt and tie (and not a button down collar) and keep the jacket in the car. I wouldn't try to match the tie to the gown but it shouldn't be at war with it either. The gown gets stowed after the ceremony, the rest of the outfit is what's seen all day.

Keep the jacket on a HANGER in the car so if its hot you dont cook it into a wrinkled ball.


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## Timeless Fashion (Apr 12, 2009)

I would definitely wear a dress shirt and a nice tie with suit pants, but not a suit jacket under the gown. I would have a suit jacket available, possibly with a family member, for photos after the commencement when you take the gown off.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

I have always thought it was insane of the Americans to have their gowns closed rather tha open at the front like here in Britain. Closing the gown creates more trapped heat but i guess that they close them to hide whatever questionable clothing choice the graduand wears underneath it all... Same with them moving the sleeve openings of the BA/MA gowns from the elbow to the wrist to hide any bare arms (the worse has to be the MA gown sleeves).


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

When one has put up with three year's worth of assignments, tests and examinations what, really, is a few hour's discomfort? Man up and wear a suit and a dark one at that. 

That said, I have no idea what American regalia looks like and if, indeed, a coat is even visible under the robe!


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## Nigel W (Apr 14, 2009)

Dinner jacket (tuxedo), highly polished black shoes, white dress shirt with separate starched wing collar, white bow tie and clerical tabs. At least that's what I wore when I graduated in 1980, but we had no choice.

If the dress code is not so strict I guess you would drop the clerical tabs and wear a smart suit and tie.


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## Portly_polar_bear (Oct 15, 2008)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> but i guess that they close them to hide whatever questionable clothing choice the graduand wears underneath it all...


I suspect you may be right. At pre-graduation ceremony inspections I've seen people sent home for darker socks, have their ties retied, jewellery removed and so on by the head porter (resplendent in morning dress and medals!) :teacha:. Most of it is showing people how to properly fold their hoods.

Recently a friend was told that if he couldn't source a white shirt in time (he'd needed to hire one and it was far too small) he'd have to forego the ceremony. Cue a lot of dashing about to borrow one. All this could be avoided if the gown was wrist-length and buttoned up, not that I'm advocating it.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Are you serious? When judges don robes to take the bench, they don't leave their suit coat on underneath. The robe is fulfulling the role that a jacket does. Same rule for graduation.

I think I would have died of heat stroke at either my undergrad or law school graduation if I had layered up with a jacket. Those robes (and the law school ones are typically much heavier and hotter than the thin undergrad things) are _stultifying_.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Another vote for no jacket under the gown; keep a suit jacket or sport coat handy for after you take the gown off.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

I wore a seersucker suit when I graduated from college, but I left the jacket off while I wore the robe.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

DougNZ said:


> When one has put up with three year's worth of assignments, tests and examinations what, really, is a few hour's discomfort? Man up and wear a suit and a dark one at that.
> 
> That said, I have no idea what American regalia looks like and if, indeed, a coat is even visible under the robe!


It's more than feeling discomfort. They often take photos when you go up on stage and grab your diploma. Looking sweaty when that happens isn't advisable. On top of that, suit shoulders look a bit odd underneath the drape of a robe.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Another vote for no jacket under the robe.

If it's going to be hot, though (and I assume I'll be pilloried for this) you might want to wear a Camelback under the robe if you have one. As an alternative I've been to a number of graduations at which bottled water was provided for the graduates and audience because it was so hot.

I have two graduations next month. I've already learned that my son's graduation from Sterling College, a tiny enviro-hippie school in Vermont, is likely to be quite casual: no caps and gowns, and maybe anything goes in clothing. I suspect that the Yale Drama School graduation will be orders of magnitude more formal.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

At least be classy about it. A flask... of water. :icon_smile_big:


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## Mercrutio (Apr 1, 2009)

*OK: The Consensus is No Jacket*

But what about the color.

One poster mentioned seersucker--which I think is an interesting choice, but a little too, um, smart. I could just picture it peeking out under the black of the robe--the cross between summer ease and solemnity might be too much.

I say no to navy--which is what I prefer for formal occasions--because I don't care for how it goes with black. Personally, I wear merlot shoes with a navy suit, unless it is an interview, and I think the only way navy and black look right together is as part of a uniform--i.e. police and the navy itself. But anyway, the cap and gown has this combination, and I think navy won't work--the navy pant legs, under the black robe, with the blue over-carriage or hood or whatever it is--will look too put together. Black would be all right, actually--but then my friend would be stuck in a black suit on an otherwise perfectly nice summer day once the robe came off and he put on a jacket. After that's taken into consideration, Charcol or light grey is all that's left. Your thougths?


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Nigel W said:


> Dinner jacket (tuxedo), highly polished black shoes, white dress shirt with separate starched wing collar, white bow tie and clerical tabs. At least that's what I wore when I graduated in 1980, but we had no choice.
> 
> If the dress code is not so strict I guess you would drop the clerical tabs and wear a smart suit and tie.


I'm guessing Cambridge? Oxford only allows bands on higher doctors.

Actually, a dinner jacket is not strictly correct IMHO. The regs say 'dark suit/jacket' or something like that. Anyways, unless you graduate from Oxbridge, Durham, St Andrews or Trinity College Dublin (or the other ancient unis of Britain and Ireland), they will not impose subfusc on you.

For American AD (academic dress), you can do away with the jacket as it is closed (one or two wear their gowns open, e.g. Stanford who has Oxbridge influences in its AD). I would, however, suggest a waistcoat as when you sit down, the gown has a tendency to open up below and expose what's underneath, especially for doctoral robes.

Also, the robe does not necessary take place of a jacket. In Oxford, one of the most formal ensembles one can wear consisted of 5 layers:

1. Shirt
2. Suit jacket
3. Black gown
4. Convocation habit
5. Hood

Even though the convocation habit is closed at the front at the top, a suit jacket is still worn because the black gown's sleeves' openings are cut at the elbows and the habit is sleeveless so your white shirt's arms will be exposed.









The only thing wrong with the above person is that he left his jacket unbuttoned thus exposing the white shirt and his waist (and also the hood should be hooked under the bands, not over them)....


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## Mercrutio (Apr 1, 2009)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> I'm guessing Cambridge? Oxford only allows bands on higher doctors.
> 
> Actually, a dinner jacket is not strictly correct IMHO. The regs say 'dark suit/jacket' or something like that. Anyways, unless you graduate from Oxbridge, Durham, St Andrews or Trinity College Dublin (or the other ancient unis of Britain and Ireland), they will not impose subfusc on you.
> 
> ...


This is a fascinating post. By your logic here, the rule, such as their might be one in the U.S., would be: if the gown leaves arms, collar, etc. exposed, whatever shows underneath it should be formal--i.e. a jacket, a collar with tie.


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## Portly_polar_bear (Oct 15, 2008)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> Actually, a dinner jacket is not strictly correct IMHO. The regs say 'dark suit/jacket' or something like that.


They do, but it is noted that:

" 'Dark' means 'black', although very dark grey or very dark blue would suffice."

The aim is to look neat and formal, and to achieve this there should be no contrast between the suit and the gown. Dinner jackets are specifically noted as being suitable in the dress code. In one or two of the colleges the undergraduate gown is actually blue, and not a very dark one, but a basic black-and-white ensemble is still expected -- undergraduate gowns are much smaller than those of people who hold a degree and don't cover much.

For the fellows presiding at a graduation ceremony grey and navy suits are more common with few or none in the black expected of graduands, though they're in much longer gowns.



Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> (and also the hood should be hooked under the bands, not over them)....


I wouldn't be surprised if it had ridden above the bands by itself. Hoods are quite unruly and uncomfortable things to wear, and using the little toggle that attaches to your shirt button serves only to pull your shirt out of your trousers.


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## mt_spiffy (Apr 12, 2008)

Jovan said:


> When I graduated high school I wore a jacket under my robe... and wish I hadn't. I didn't visibly perspirate (thank God) but I definitely did around my armpits and felt uncomfortable in general. I suggest keeping the jacket close by for when the robe is taken off. Today the robes are made of polyester or nylon so they can be pretty warm.
> 
> I think a lightweight wool suit will be fine for the weather, especially with the trousers alone. Encourage him to wear a tie at least.


+1...


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

I think this needs to be looked at specifically as to what time of year the Graduation ceremonies are held. I graduated with my MVCR in Autumn 2008. I wore a lightweight summer suit which was fine under the gown. 

I think that if your going to go through the ceremony show some style, I find that wearing a shirt and tie under a gown to be plebeian and is in an affront to the ritual and history of the occasion.


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## Simon Myerson (Nov 8, 2007)

Subfusc. Show some class.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

No coat, except in the extremely unlikely case of armless gowns. Good trousers, good shirt, stellar tie, as they'll show. Coat in the car for the post parties.

Academically sartorial note: Don't switch your mortarboard tassel until the end of the ceremony, or when instructed to do so by the presiding dean. Usually they start out on the left and end up on the right, but check your school's protocol and don't guess.

Congratulations to all the class of 2009!


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Portly_polar_bear said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it had ridden above the bands by itself. Hoods are quite unruly and uncomfortable things to wear, and using the little toggle that attaches to your shirt button serves only to pull your shirt out of your trousers.


Historically, that hood loop was meant for the cassock button. Because the cassock is a much heavier garment, there is not danger of the garment ridding up. Now, they use it to hook the hood onto the shirt which is wrong IMO. The collar, tie and bands and the weight of the hood pulling down your back should be sufficient enough to keep the hood in place. The biggest mistake people usually make is to wear the hood with the neckband so far down the front that the hood body slips over their shoulders like a shawl creating a messy and clumbsy effect (women who wear open necked tops are particularly guilty of this as there is nowhere to hook the neckband so they pin it all the way down).

I agree that subfusc has class. It just goes well with the gown and sort of acts as a class equaliser. Some of my colleagues who went to different unis other than the subfusc wearing institutions wore subfusc to their graduations and received many compliments because it just looks smarter.

The tassel flipping business (as well as cap throwing) is American in origin. Because of the growing number of graduates, individual hooding (or a complete change of dress a lá Oxford) would take too much time so flipping tassels is like a way to mark change in status though this would be rendered useless when a wind blows or when you've already graduated and you're proceeding onto the rank of Master. Cap throwing came from the Naval Academy and somehow infiltrated into the academic ceremony to the point it is now a 'tradition' (albeit a questionable tradition). IMO, keep your hat on!


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## Portly_polar_bear (Oct 15, 2008)

That's interesting. I'm glad to hear the hook isn't meant for a shirt -- for design that bad to last so long would be impressive.

I agree the hood should be worn well back. It feels wrong at first but it's the only way.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

In the vintage hoods that I have got, there is no loop so that loop is a modern innovation. The loop would probably work well with a very light unlined hood but if it is full-shape and made of wool like the Oxford doctoral ones which are huge, it will be heavy enough to pull the shirt up. I have noticed that the hoods made before 1970 are lighter than today's ones.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

ajo said:


> I think this needs to be looked at specifically as to what time of year the Graduation ceremonies are held. I graduated with my MVCR in Autumn 2008. I wore a lightweight summer suit which was fine under the gown.
> 
> I think that if your going to go through the ceremony show some style, I find that wearing a shirt and tie under a gown to be plebeian and is in an affront to the ritual and history of the occasion.


... are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

ajo said:


> I think that if your going to go through the ceremony show some style, I find that wearing a shirt and tie under a gown to be plebeian and is in an affront to the ritual and history of the occasion.


Are Supreme Court justices being plebian when they take the bench without a jacket under their robes?


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

In these circumstances, go without the jacket.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

ajo said:


> I think this needs to be looked at specifically as to what time of year the Graduation ceremonies are held. I graduated with my MVCR in Autumn 2008. I wore a lightweight summer suit which was fine under the gown.
> 
> I think that if your going to go through the ceremony show some style, I find that wearing a shirt and tie under a gown to be plebeian and is in an affront to the ritual and history of the occasion.





Jovan said:


> ... are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding.


Jovan is onto something, I think. You really are making a joke. Aren't you?

Of course a graduate, judge, minister, or dean may wear a suit under the gown if they choose. That, as you said, would be "fine." However, there is no one putting a gun to their heads and requiring them to do so, in the name of tradition or whatever.

As I said before: If the gown has no sleeves or is open in the front all the way down, you're stuck with wearing a suit coat with trousers to match. Otherwise, suit yourself, or not.


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

Wear the shirt and tie. Take the coat along. You will find every combination at the ceremony. At my daughter's college graduation last year, most people including the audience wore shorts. I was overdressed in my sport coat.


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

Grey pinstripe two piece; white shirt; subtle classic print tie, or school tie: if you wore this you would shock with your classic understate style and good taste.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

His good taste or _your_ good taste... you're the one dictating to him what to wear. :icon_smile_big:


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Jovan said:


> ... are you kidding? Please tell me you're kidding.


No. Not at all. Ritual and tradition should be respected if not just for there history but the symbolism and theatre of the occasion and what it represents to you as an individual.

To graduate is a process of symbolically breaking with a particular aspect of your life and moving forward into new avenues of life.

Ritual is like theatre dress for what the occasion demands.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Blueboy1938 said:


> Jovan is onto something, I think. You really are making a joke. Aren't you?
> 
> Of course a graduate, judge, minister, or dean may wear a suit under the gown if they choose. That, as you said, would be "fine." However, there is no one putting a gun to their heads and requiring them to do so, in the name of tradition or whatever.
> 
> As I said before: If the gown has no sleeves or is open in the front all the way down, you're stuck with wearing a suit coat with trousers to match. Otherwise, suit yourself, or not.


The regalia that a Professor or Dean wears on stage is vastly different from a gown that you wear when the University confers the degree.

I take it that the gowns in question here are something of a standard type? In Australia we follow English traditions in these matters. Do they differ in the US?

It's up to the individual to decide what road they take, no one is forcing any one to do anything, but I do believe in respect for ritual and tradition and the symbolic theatre that it is. So in IHO the occasion demands a suit.

Also for me when I got my Masters my teen age son was in attendance as well, so it was important that I looked the part required for the solemnity of the occasion.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

CuffDaddy said:


> Are Supreme Court justices being plebian when they take the bench without a jacket under their robes?


I had a look at recent photo of the Supreme Court and noticed that the robes were full flowing, head to toe, long sleeved, vastly different from the robes you wear upon graduation at University.

Wearing a suit underneath would be pointless under these circumstances.


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## JayJay (Oct 8, 2007)

I recommend a summer weight suit, but leave the jacket with someone until after the ceremony.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

ajo said:


> I had a look at recent photo of the Supreme Court and noticed that the robes were full flowing, head to toe, long sleeved, vastly different from the robes you wear upon graduation at University.


Maybe this is the source of confusion. When I graduated from law school, my robes were _very_ different from the ones they gave us for college graduation. They were heavy cloth, long sleeved, elaborate, and _rented_. They were serious garments, not like the disposable trash they issued in plastic bags for college graduation. Totally different thing. IIRC, the OP was asking about a friend's _law school_ graduation. If his school's robes are like mine were, a suit jacket underneath would be totally invisible and an invitation to heat stroke.


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## eamuscatuli3 (Jun 12, 2006)

CuffDaddy said:


> Maybe this is the source of confusion. When I graduated from law school, my robes were _very_ different from the ones they gave us for college graduation. They were heavy cloth, long sleeved, elaborate, and _rented_. They were serious garments, not like the disposable trash they issued in plastic bags for college graduation. Totally different thing. IIRC, the OP was asking about a friend's _law school_ graduation. If his school's robes are like mine were, a suit jacket underneath would be totally invisible and an invitation to heat stroke.


I agree.


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## Mercrutio (Apr 1, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> Maybe this is the source of confusion. When I graduated from law school, my robes were _very_ different from the ones they gave us for college graduation. They were heavy cloth, long sleeved, elaborate, and _rented_. They were serious garments, not like the disposable trash they issued in plastic bags for college graduation. Totally different thing. IIRC, the OP was asking about a friend's _law school_ graduation. If his school's robes are like mine were, a suit jacket underneath would be totally invisible and an invitation to heat stroke.


This is exactly the case, as I understand it: the robe will be a heavy cloth affair. My friend has yet to get his, so there's no telling how thick the cloth is, and no way to be certain about the sleeves. But my guess is that the school itself--a rather posh place with lots of old architecture--will insist on the robe being sufficiently formal, and that should mean long sleeves, etc., if what the posters here have noted is correct.

My friend says that the prospect of sitting for a couple of hours outside under a robe like this is why he wants to eschew a tie, as well as a jacket. This makes perfect enough sense to me, even though my own preference, even with the heat, would be to wear a suit anyway. He has read this thread, and so far he's not much persuaded that he shouldn't stick with his plan--an OCBD and gray slacks, with the blue blazer and tie waiting.


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## Mercrutio (Apr 1, 2009)

*I see your point but*



Jovan said:


> His good taste or _your_ good taste... you're the one dictating to him what to wear. :icon_smile_big:


Doesn't everyone's taste come from somewhere else? I mean, people are certainly more or less original, but we all take in what others do, choose what we like, and live with it. It seems to me that the real question is not whether you take other people's advice about how to dress, but rather WHAT advice you take and how well you mold it to your own idiosyncrasies and predilections.

For what it's worth, I think the suggestion about the gray pinstripe suit is a good one. I wish I had thought of it myself.


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## Chengdu nanhai (Apr 12, 2009)

Great discussion! I learned quite a bit of useful information, and just in time for my upcoming graduating :icon_smile_big:


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, the fabric used for gowns were meant to keep you warm in ye olde times when there was no central heating and you lived in Britain where the climate is cold and rainy. 

Nowadays, it is made of Russell cord which is a cotton and wool blend (same used for law gowns). Princetta is the same but lighter and cooler. Polyester is now the thing used for all hired gowns whilst RC/P is sold on request. RC hangs better and is hardwearing (also looks better). Poly just does not drape well, can be shiny and can overheat you more than RC can IMHO. 

In America, about 80% of materials available through robemakers are poly or poly blend. The remaining is tropical wool and the like. But I still feel that if they wore gowns open, the overheating will not be much of an issue. 

IMO, you cannot compare high school gowns with university gowns. HS gowns are only meant to be worn once and that is that whilst university gowns can be worn for life so quality and hardiness counts.

Of course, if you are going into the teaching profession at university or some traditional teaching institution, I would invest in a good quality gown made of the best fabric.


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## Portly_polar_bear (Oct 15, 2008)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> university gowns can be worn for life so quality and hardiness counts.
> 
> I would invest in a good quality gown made of the best fabric.


Sometimes the best fabric is the one that can go in the washing machine after a particularly strenuous dinner :icon_smile_wink:. I'm sure that's less of a problem as one becomes a little more sedate.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

ajo said:


> No. Not at all. Ritual and tradition should be respected if not just for there history but the symbolism and theatre of the occasion and what it represents to you as an individual.
> 
> To graduate is a process of symbolically breaking with a particular aspect of your life and moving forward into new avenues of life.
> 
> Ritual is like theatre dress for what the occasion demands.


But wearing a suit jacket under a hot robe is just not a sound idea, especially if it's an outdoor graduation. It's not disrespecting tradition or ritual, nor being "plebeian." It's being practical. Sometimes, you just have to be. I doubt I'm going to see any suits worn under robes at this year's UF graduation. The case you make about judges' robes goes well for uni graduates too -- long sleeved, closed front robes. Surely you can allow some leeway for that and not resort to archaic insults.



Mercrutio said:


> Doesn't everyone's taste come from somewhere else? I mean, people are certainly more or less original, but we all take in what others do, choose what we like, and live with it. It seems to me that the real question is not whether you take other people's advice about how to dress, but rather WHAT advice you take and how well you mold it to your own idiosyncrasies and predilections.
> 
> For what it's worth, I think the suggestion about the gray pinstripe suit is a good one. I wish I had thought of it myself.


I think you took my post a little too seriously. The emoticon was used there for a reason.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Mercrutio said:


> My friend says that the prospect of sitting for a couple of hours outside under a robe like this is why he wants to eschew a tie, as well as a jacket....He has read this thread, and so far he's not much persuaded that he shouldn't stick with his plan--an OCBD and gray slacks, with the blue blazer and tie waiting.


The OCBD seems like too casual a shirt for a graduation, especiallly a law school graduation.

I would recommend a spread collar shirt, in white broadcloth or pinpoint, with a sedate tie (e.g., a 'wedding tie' or a repp tie). This would work well with the gray trousers, and will also look fine wtih the blazer once the graduation attire is off.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> I have always thought it was insane of the Americans to have their gowns closed rather tha open at the front like here in Britain. Closing the gown creates more trapped heat but i guess that they close them to hide whatever questionable clothing choice the graduand wears underneath it all... Same with them moving the sleeve openings of the BA/MA gowns from the elbow to the wrist to hide any bare arms (the worse has to be the MA gown sleeves).


At Harvard, part of the original 19th century intent (of reinstating the long forgotten gowns) was to have them act as a uniform that would hide differences of clothing among the students.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Under my gown I wear a suit......my birthday suit! :icon_smile_wink:


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Bog said:


> At Harvard, part of the original 19th century intent (of reinstating the long forgotten gowns) was to have them act as a uniform that would hide differences of clothing among the students.


That probably is the case because theu do not have a prescribed 'subfusc' clothing underneath the gown so people could wear what they want (along certain parameters). Since British AD is descended from Oxbridge which does have subfusc, that is why all our gowns are open regardless of subfusc being applied or not. Also, Americans follow a more continential practice nowadays than adhere to British practice.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> That probably is the case because theu do not have a prescribed 'subfusc' clothing underneath the gown so people could wear what they want (along certain parameters). Since British AD is descended from Oxbridge which does have subfusc, that is why all our gowns are open regardless of subfusc being applied or not. Also, Americans follow a more continential practice nowadays than adhere to British practice.


There seems to have been a uniform that was abandoned in the early 1800s. Not having a uniform, there was nothing specific to wear the gown on top of.

Here is a picture from 1890 that shows graduates in white tie under their gowns.


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