# The TGTA--Trad Glossary & Abbreviations



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Ok guys, in another thread a member was asking about the abbreviation OCBD, so I thought I would start a thread to explain all the abbreviations we use to new members. I know when I first started reading the posts it took me awhile to realize what some of them meant. Here goes:

TGTA-Trad guide to abbreviations
OCBD-oxford cloth button down
AE-Allen Edmonds
BB-Brooks Brothers
LE-Lands' End

Ok, there's a small start, help me out here...


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## johnsamson (Sep 10, 2005)

OPH-Official Preppy Handbook
B2-Brooks Brothers


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Laxplayer said:


> Ok guys, in another thread a member was asking about the abbreviation OCBD, so I thought I would start a thread to explain all the abbreviations we use to new members. I know when I first started reading the posts it took me awhile to realize what some of them meant. Here goes:
> 
> TGTA-Trad guide to abbreviations
> OCBD-oxford cloth button down
> ...


Here are a few more:

TNSIL= Traditional Natural Shoulder Ivy League
LLB = L.L. Bean
GTH = Go To Hell
TIM = Tipsy In Madras (I think I just made that one up...what the hell.)


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Coolidge24 said:


> It's been used!


I meant the abbreviation, not the book.


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

LHS = Leisure hand sewn


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

Some basics:
1B, 2B, 3B - 1,2 or 3 button jacket
2/3B - 3 roll to 2 button jacket
SB - single breasted
DB - double breasted
PS - pocket square (handkerchief to the fogeys)
FIH - four-in-hand tie or knot


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

DJ: Dinner Jacket (upper class), Tuxedo (middle class), Tux (lower class)

Sorry, couldn't resist.

JB


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

BMW - exotic Trad motorcar
VW - van driven by Preppies on their OE
OE - Overseas experience; tour of Europe


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## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Trad Forum Glossary*

*OCBD:* Oxford Cloth Button Down. A shirt made from a coarse weave of cotton known as "Oxford Cloth". The phrase button-down refers to the collar, which buttons to the body of the shirt. Much ado is made in this forum about the length of the collar points, and the degree to which the collar "rolls" from the collar stand to the buttons that hold the collar points in place. Rumors about the availability of poly/cotton blend and short sleeved OCBDs are greatly exaggirated. "Fused Collars" (collars made to keep their shape with heat activated glue instead of careful cutting and matching of fabric pieces) are an anathema to members of this forum. There is lively debate among members on the topic of shirt pockets. Some insist there should be no pockets on a dress shirt, while others insist that a true OCBD is impractical without one. J. Press makes their shirts with a button flap covering the pocket, which some find preferable to the original Brooks Brothers OCBD.


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

BB or B2 - Brooks Brothers https://www.brooksbrothers.com/
LE - Lands End https://www.landsend.com/
LLB - LL Bean https://www.llbean.com/
STP - Sierra Trading Post


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## JBZ (Mar 28, 2005)

Alden LHS = Alden Leisure Handsewn Penny Loafer


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

As the term often comes up here:

AmJack: American Jackass style


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

J. Press = J. Press :icon_smile_big:


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

*"Proper Roll" of OCBD Collar*

There are actually two types of "proper roll" when it comes to OCBD's. And BB shirts can be seen to exhibit both types of roll--

To clarify, one type of roll, exemplifed by, say, a Mercer or vintage Gitman BD I describe as a sort of a "liberty bell" roll. Clear enough? The collar rolls outward at the top, curves gracefully back in at the midpoint, then reverses direction so that it intersects the button nicely. Facing someone wearing a collar with this curve, the collar point on the left will be shaped like an S.

Oddly, given the emphasis and attention paid to BB collars and their "proper" roll, BB OCBD's in particular sometimes exhibit an entirely different type of roll--this can often be seen in vintage photos. This roll is virtually the opposite of a liberty bell. The top of the collar curves down almost immediately and then curves awkwardly out and eventually down towards the button. Facing someone wearing a collar with this curve, the collar on the left will be shaped like a backwards S.

Just a thought for the obsessed...

Markus


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## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*BT: Bowtie

DP BT/ Diamond Point Bow Tie:* A bow tie whose ends are triangular instead of square. Other styles of bows include "Thistle" (the most common type of bow), "Butterfly" (usually wider than a thistle), Paddle/ Oar/ Cricket Bat/ Straight ( a tie whose blade has a consisted width, with no flare or "bulb shape" anywhere along the blade. The latter of these bow tie shapes is usually very narrow. J. Press used to refer to a "victorian batwing" style in their catalog, (which referenced the paddle style bow in the 1980's). Old catalogs from the Victorian period, however seem to suggest that a "batwing" was probably diamond pointed, in addition to being narrow (ie straight along the length of the tie blade).*

TYO/ Tie Your Own**/ To Be Tied/ Hand Tied/ Freestyle/ TIY/ Tie it yourself/ Self Tie/ *A bow tie that is tied by the wearer (or his spouse), rather than pre-tied. There is no standard terminology for distinguishing "real" bow ties from either the clip-on, or the strap-on style of bow ties. Hence, there is no search engine capable of locating this style of tie, while eliminating hits from formal wear shops who only stock polyester satin "fake" bow ties. Increasing the frustration, is the fact that Chevrolet refer to the logo on the grille of thier cars a "bow tie". There is a type of pasta called "bow tie pasta". There is a style of bikini called a "Bow tie" bikini. IN short, there are dozens of subject matters that come up in a general search for bow ties which bear little or no relevance to the business of finding just the right tie. Hence, there have been many efforts made by members of this forum to assemble lists of the best bow ties, and where to purchase them.

*CCC:* Cable Car Clothiers/ Robert Kirk: A very nice shop in San Fran, devoted to "natural shoulder" clothing. What could be more Trad than that?

* 3 to 2 roll*: The traddest of all blazers and suit coats have three buttons, but the lapel rolls in such a way that the third button is only seen when it is buttoned. The only way to tell if it's a three button blazer, is if the underside of the uppermost buttonhole is visible on the roll of a lapel. This superfluous third button serves three very important purposes: It shows off the skills of the tailor (a well made, corded buttonhole looks nice from the back side as well as the front), it provides a spare button if you loose one (you almost never see the top button anyway), and it provides extra protection from the wind and rain in a severe storm (probably the only time it is ever buttoned).

* Natural Shoulder:* Like the terms "organic" and "natural food supplement", the term Natural Shoulder is not officially defined by any official standards body. The idea, is to have as little padding in the shoulders of the jacket as possible.

* Patch:* *1.* An oval piece of suede leather attached to each elbow of a tweed blazer or (rarely) a shetland sweater. *2.* The pockets on a blazer. Patch pockets are just what the name implies-- they are sewn onto the face of the blazer, not set in. A patch pocket on the breast is sewn to the blazer along both sides and across the bottom, with the top edge left open (so that the pocket remains functional as a pocket). The lower two pockets are generally the same, although they tend to look better if a flap is added which folds down over the open edge. *3.* A medical student who posts here regularly (not necessarily known for wearing clown noses and bed pan shoes-- give him time). *4.* Patchwork: Like a patchwork quilt, generally rendered in madras but occasionally made of tartan or corduroy. Madras patchwork is often synonymous with the phrase "GTH" as in "GTH Blazer" or "GTH Pants". It is not always obvious whether somebody means "madras patchwork" "elbow patches" or "patch pockets" when referencing a "patch blazer".

*Mouse:* A computer pointing device developed at Xerox's PARC (Palo Alto Research Center), and popularized by Apple Computer Corp. Apple Founder Steve Jobs is now a member of the "House of Mouse".

*The one button vs. three button controversy:* A suit coat or blazer should always have three buttons. A dinner jacket should have only one button. A computer's operating system should always be designed around the one button mouse, even if power users decide to maximize their own productivity with customized multi-button pointing devices.

*Expired Link:* A cufflink that has come apart (usually one of the chain links has broken, causing the two buttons to separate from one another).

*Glossary:* A boutique that sells lip gloss and related items.

*Boat:* A hole in the water into which one pours money.

*AAAC:* Ask Andy About Clothes-A hole in the internet into which one pours one's time. Especially if one is a forum moderator.

*Naval Observatory:* Where one goes to have one's belly button examined.

*Trandy:* One who lives on the intersection between Trad and Dandy. Essentially somebody whose fountain pen and cuff links match, but whose tie and handkerchief (pocket square) do not.

*Braces:* 1. English for "Suspenders" 2. American for "orthodonture".

*Suspenders:* English for "garter belt" (a women's undergarment used to hold up her stockings).

*Stocking:* what a grocer does when he/she is not bagging or checking

*Checking:* different from Savings or CDs

*CD:* what one plays in one's Discman while jogging

*Discman:* (archaic) the forerunner to the iPod, and the replacement for the Walkman.

*Walkman:* Sony's replacement for the Transistor radio.

*Transistor Radio:* Sony's invention that revolutionized the way people listen to music. With the exception of the mechanical turntable and the Motorolla (a radio designed to attach to the Battery of an automobile), most music reproducing devices prior to the transistor required a lot of current to operate. The transistor (developed at AT&T's Bell Labs) required less current, and could be powered by simple flashlight batteries. For better or worse, people could now listen to music everywhere.

*Colour:* English for Color
*Favour:* English for Favor
*Catalogue:* English for Catalog
*Reguard:* English for Regard
Brittons seem to esteem the letter "U" so highly, that they even use it in places where it doesn't beloung.

*Garter: 1.* A non-poisonous snake *2.* A heraldric device used in almost every scottish clan badge (much to the chagrin of the Royal Order of the Garter and it's members). *3.* What a scottsman uses to hold his garter flashes in place. *4.* An elasticized piece of silk worn at the top of a bride's stocking (usually ornamental). In American custom, she removes the garter toward the end of wedding festivities, and flings it into a crowd of unmarried women. The woman who catches the garter is then forced to marry the next man she meets. *5.* An elastic device worn by men to hold their stockings up-common in America prior to the 1950's, but now worn primarily with non-elasticized socks, such as formal silk hose.

*Arm Garter:* (Aka: "Gay 90's Arm Bands) An elastic or spring used to keep one's sleeves at the proper length. More common in America prior to the 1930's, and now worn principally as a part of period costume. Sanford Cluett of Cluett Peabody & Co. (aka "Arrow") invented "Sanforization", which took a lot of guess work out of sizing ready made garments. Arrow may have been the first to realize the impact of this invention on the shirt market, however Brooks Brothers is widely regarded as the company that popularized ready made shirts. "St. George" nickel plaited spring steel arm bands may still be acquired in England.

*LOL:* Laughing out loud

*ROFLOL:* Rolling on the floor laughing out loud

*ROFLMYAO:* Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off

*Seamless:* the opposite of seemly


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## LPinFla (Jan 7, 2005)

*NTWF!*

Dpihl, now that was funny--and quite clever, too! You see, I told you, I laugh when it's funny.


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

NNI - non-non iron

or maybe just "iron"?


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## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

Dpihl, Your observation about English spelling made me laugh. Some usefull information, in there too. I'd never heard the word Trad (well not in terms a clothing), before joining the forum. I do quite like the style though. I love penny loafers, button down shirts and seesucker jackets ect, stuff that I would term Ivy league.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Joe Tradly said:


> DJ: Dinner Jacket (upper class), Tuxedo (middle class), Tux (lower class)
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> 
> JB


Upper usage is mostly 'black tie'.


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## JonH (Jul 9, 2007)

Sorry to revive old threads with silly questions, but could someone provide a more detailed definition of what exactly trad is?

I'm new and not exactly sure what qualifies as trad, I figured the glossary was as good as any place to ask this.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

JonH said:


> Sorry to revive old threads with silly questions, but could someone provide a more detailed definition of what exactly trad is?
> 
> I'm new and not exactly sure what qualifies as trad, I figured the glossary was as good as any place to ask this.


A quick look at the Hall of Fame Threads & Links thread leads one to Trad 101, which is as good a place to start as any. In short, it is the Ivy-League, natural shoulder style. Centuries long wars have been waged in attempts to narrow the definition further.

Welcome to the board.


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

Maybe it's time to reconsider the possibility that David Icke, and Patrick are right! The Lizard People are here, and have found ways to destroy our civilization by driving us mad.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

NFP No pleats
NFD No darts


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Joe Tradly said:


> DJ: Dinner Jacket (upper class), Tuxedo (middle class), Tux (lower class)
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> 
> JB


If "tux" is lower class, where does one slot in "monkey suit" and from there down, dinner jacket with notch lapels?


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## JonH (Jul 9, 2007)

AlanC said:


> A quick look at the Hall of Fame Threads & Links thread leads one to Trad 101, which is as good a place to start as any. In short, it is the Ivy-League, natural shoulder style. Centuries long wars have been waged in attempts to narrow the definition further.
> 
> Welcome to the board.


Thanks for the welcome and the response AlanC, that thread helped a lot. I guess my next question would be what qualifies as a "sack" suit? I'm sorry, I am having trouble finding the definitions for these terms.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Intrepid said:


> Maybe it's time to reconsider the possibility that David Icke, and Patrick are right! The Lizard People are here, and have found ways to destroy our civilization by driving us mad.


At least one of the Bros. Brooks was a human/reptile hybrid. Whoops, gotta go, Henry Kissinger's spying on me through the toaster again.


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

JonH said:


> Thanks for the welcome and the response AlanC, that thread helped a lot. I guess my next question would be what qualifies as a "sack" suit? I'm sorry, I am having trouble finding the definitions for these terms.


JonH, there is a function here that may be of help to you.

The header has a drop down entitled "Search". Check out Troll, Trad, and Sack Suit.


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## JonH (Jul 9, 2007)

Intrepid said:


> JonH, there is a function here that may be of help to you.
> 
> The header has a drop down entitled "Search". Check out Troll, Trad, and Sack Suit.


Intrepid,

I certainly wasn't trying to troll, I had tried searching for answers to my questions before posting. The results I found didn't provide much in the way of explanation (at least not in the detail I was hoping for), they were more discussions of the topics by people who obviously know far more than myself. Granted I did not read every post in every thread resulting from my search, so I may have missed something.

I apologize for taking up your time.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

a sack jacket:

natural shoulder (minimal padding)
minimal waist suppression

They are usually 3 buttons, lapel rolled to the middle button. Some are 2 buttons.

They usually don't have front darts.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

A picture is worth a thousand words:


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## JonH (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks Untilted, just what I was looking for :icon_cheers:


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