# Baggy, Sagging Pants in Atlanta



## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Though many us would love to legislate style, I think it's just another form of government nannyism. I'm just amazed people can actually walk around in those things.

https://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/08/23/america/NA-GEN-US-Sagging-Pants-Ban.php


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> Debbie Seagraves, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia, said the law could not be enforced in a nondiscriminatory way because it targets something that came out of the black youth culture.


Actually, it came out of prison culture, and signified a certain ... how does one say it? ... _receptivity to amorous relations_.



> "This is a racial profiling bill that promotes and establishes a framework for an additional type of racial profiling," she told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution for its Thursday editions.


Not only is it redundant, but she says it more than once.

But, yes, she's correct. It's a way to give police probable cause to stop a certain segment of the population that commits a disproportionate amount of crimes against persons and public health.

There aren't enough prisons or guards to criminalize offenses against style.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Phinn said:


> Actually, it came out of prison culture, and signified a certain ... how does one say it? ... _receptivity to amorous relations_.


Are you sure? I had also read that it was a prison thing, but it came from the fact that they don't let you wear a belt in prison.

Either way, this seems to suggest that some people need to try a little harder to identify the real problems.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

I find it somewhat ironic that the Atlanta city councilman who proposed the oridinance is African-American.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> Are you sure?


Having never been in prison, I cannot confirm.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

ACLU said:


> Debbie Seagraves, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia, said the law could not be enforced in a nondiscriminatory way because it targets something that came out of the black youth culture. "This is a racial profiling bill that promotes and establishes a framework for an additional type of racial profiling," she told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution for its Thursday editions.


That ACLU bollocks makes me thoroughly sick. This quotation alone is worse than any Galloway-style flatulence that we have do endure in Europe.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Albert said:


> That ACLU bollocks makes me thoroughly sick. This quotation alone is worse than any Galloway-style flatulence that we have do endure in Europe.


+1...:icon_smile:


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Phinn said:


> Actually, it came out of prison culture, and signified a certain ... how does one say it? ... _receptivity to amorous relations_.





jackmccullough said:


> Are you sure? I had also read that it was a prison thing, but it came from the fact that they don't let you wear a belt in prison.
> 
> Either way, this seems to suggest that some people need to try a little harder to identify the real problems.


Seems both of you are correct.

_...the origin of that look was from prison. Men in prison wore
their pants low when they were spoken for. The other reason their pants
looked like that was because they were not allowed to have belts
because
prisoners were likely to try to commit suicide. _


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Phinn said:


> Actually, it came out of prison culture, and signified a certain ... how does one say it? ... _receptivity to amorous relations_.


Well that about says it all...give me my high waisted "peg leg" trousers if you please. Don't want any misunderstandings in that regard at my age! Say wot!


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

https://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

So,Why don't they ban baggy pants in New York if they ban it Altlanta?


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Howard said:


> So,Why don't they ban baggy pants in New York if they ban it Altlanta?


Why don't you run for state Senator of NY and try to change things.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Laxplayer said:


> Why don't you run for state Senator of NY and try to change things.


That's what Hillary Clinton's for.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Howard said:


> That's what Hillary Clinton's for.


Clinton is a U.S. Senator from New York, not a state senator.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Laxplayer said:


> Why don't you run for state Senator of NY and try to change things.


I hope not. That means Hilary would have gotten another job .


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Laxplayer said:


> Clinton is a U.S. Senator from New York, not a state senator.


Then who's the State Senator?


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Howard said:


> Then who's the State Senator?


Sorry...I read it a little fast. I thought you meant Senator...as in the Federal Government. Not Senator...as in go to Albany.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Howard said:


> Then who's the State Senator?


You don't vote? I don't live in NY, so I wouldn't know. As Wayfar would say, DYOH.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Howard said:


> Then who's the State Senator?


If you don't know, there's this thing called Google. Wonderful tool.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

Thanks for the Snopes link. Unfortunately, unlike many Snopes articles, this one does not contain any linked citations for its blanket assertion that the sagging pants carries no social significance in prison, but is a purely practical effect of a lack of belts. 

I find it hard to believe that a dress feature that figures so prominently in sartorial signals outside prison has no cultural significance inside prison. After all, the practicality of clothing pales in comparison to its semiotics.


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## Title III Guy (Mar 18, 2007)

Phinn said:


> Actually, it came out of prison culture, and signified a certain ... how does one say it? ... _receptivity to amorous relations_.
> 
> *Not only is it redundant, but she says it more than once. *


Maybe she formerly worked in the Dept. of Redundancy Department.
.
.
. T3G


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*Sagging Jeans: Go Directly to Jail*

The New York Times on baggy, sagging jeans:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/fashion/30baggy.html?_r=1&ref=fashion&oref=slogin


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

See also Interchange: Baggy Pants in Atlanta

Cheers,
A.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

This too shall pass. Like every other "fashion statement".

Just like a child throwing a tantrum, give the "offenders" attention, and they do it all the more. Reward the bad behavior with attention. 

Is wearing the jeans like this tacky? Yes. Offensive? Not really, only to style. Stupid? Without a doubt.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Frank aka The Minotaur said:


> Just like a child throwing a tantrum, give the "offenders" attention, and they do it all the more. Reward the bad behavior with attention.


My thoughts exactly. This is exactly what they want: to be seen as 'bad boys' and 'rebels' in the eyes of 'we' the supposedly monstrous hardline conservatives. The truth is they will grow up.

Also it was Nietzsche who said if you really want to kill something, kill it with laughter. My GF pointed out that those sagging jeans looks like the wearer has soiled himself causing them to sag under the weight of an enormous ..... :icon_smile_big:


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## Ofishbein (Aug 3, 2005)

At the risk of stereotyping, I would say that a fair number of gang members (gangstas?) adopt this look. In that case, I say let their pants sag - it's harder to run from the scene of a crime while trying to keep one's trousers from falling off.


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## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

There was a beautiful segment on an old Red Green episode in which the little guy who is a habitual small-time hoodlum had to perform some public service by speaking to youth about crime. During his "how to" presentation, he mentioned how difficult it is to elude the police when your pants keep falling down around your ankles.
"Pant Loads" we call 'em around here.


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

*Sagging jeans go directly to jail*

There is a freedom of expression. I think that the proper way to solve the problem of sagging jeans is to restrict where they can be worn. 
Example in St.Louis the Union Station Association prohibitited the wearing of du rags while shopping. Even Nellie the rapper was not allowed to enter wearing a du rag

Don't hire anyone wearing sagging pants and don't allow them in your place of business. 
The wearing of pants sagging glorifies prison wear. There is no place in our society for the glorification of criminals.


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## alaric (May 23, 2005)

I sympathize with the intent, but I have yet to find a governmental "cure" that was not worse than the "disease" that preceded it.

alaric


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Albert said:


> See also Interchange: Baggy Pants in Atlanta
> 
> Cheers,
> A.


Thanks, Albert. Rather than have two separate discussions, I have merged them into a single thread...and inasmuch as much of the focus is on expression and government action, I have kept it in The Interchange.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I agree that this seems to be swatting a fly with a sledgehammer.

Parents and employers need to deal with this (if it needs to be dealt with.) Not the government.

We have too many laws now that stay on the books forever even when their usefulness or relevance has passed.


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## Midnight Blue (Apr 22, 2007)

"Sagging began in prison, where oversized uniforms were issued without belts to prevent suicide and their use as weapons. The style spread through rappers and music videos, from the ghetto to the suburbs and around the world."

Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that so many people look to criminals for inspiration in fashion, music and behaviour? Say what you will about the anti-establishment hippies of the past but at least they believed in making the world a better place. Today's celebration of criminal culture has entirely different implications for society.


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## Renty (Apr 4, 2007)

I was eating lunch with a few deputies one day and they were having a discussion about people and sagging pants. One was talking about how much it annoyed her and the other deputy said he didn't mind because it made them easier to catch because inevitably their pants fall down when they run. :aportnoy:


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Midnight Blue said:


> Say what you will about the anti-establishment hippies of the past but at least they believed in making the world a better place. Today's celebration of criminal culture has entirely different implications for society.


Midnight Blue,

At least in Germany (i.e. my home country) the anti-establishment movement was highly totalitarian, collectivist and antisocial in character. No wonder that it transformed straight into a couple of terrorist groups. Therefore, I do not believe the tale of a "better world". I think the only difference is that both groups mentioned come from different layers of society...

Cheers,
A.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

medwards said:


> The New York Times on baggy, sagging jeans:
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/fashion/30baggy.html?_r=1&ref=fashion&oref=slogin


I think people are allowed to wear their jeans the way they want to not because people say it's wrong or indecent but it's their perogative.


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## Infrasonic (May 18, 2007)

Jared Diamonds "collapse" is a very good read if you want to find some context for modern day gang behaviour relating to past societys.

Surely we should be subverting from within by informing these chaps that, in fact, the latest hippest style is to wear your jeans around your ankles......and full handcuffs are even more "in"......:devil: :icon_smile_big: 

I


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Laxplayer said:


> Clinton is a U.S. Senator from New York, not a state senator.


Which is too bad actually.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Howard said:


> I think people are allowed to wear their jeans the way they want to not because people say it's wrong or indecent but it's their perogative.


It's Bobby Brown's prerogative.


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## Mr. H (Aug 27, 2007)

Laxplayer said:


> > Originally Posted by *Howard* https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?p=612261#post612261
> > _I think people are allowed to wear their jeans the way they want to not because people say it's wrong or indecent but it's their *perogative*_
> 
> 
> ...


Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, pierogies.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

More on the crack down. 

https://kevxml2a.verizon.net/_1_DSD...0&qcat=usnews&ran=29090&passqi=&feed=ap&top=1


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Some people wear sagging pants and post their literary efforts on walls with spraypaint. Others seem to embrace sagging intellectual non constructs and post online.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

medwards said:


> More on the crack down.
> 
> https://kevxml2a.verizon.net/_1_DSD...0&qcat=usnews&ran=29090&passqi=&feed=ap&top=1


Same article was on Yahoo today, good amount of puns in there 

Brian


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I think the women are wearing the saggy pants as well,the young girls are doing it,probably to make a statement.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

I distinctly remember a case several years ago in which a young suspect was confronted by an arresting officer He put his hands up. At that point, his saggy pants started to fall down and when he reached down to grab the waistband to hold them up, the cop capped him thinking he was going for a gun. Turned out he was unarmed. Dead, but armed.

Still, I'm against any law governing poor dressing just as I am against any law abridging free speech. I like to know who the idiots are up front.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

If anyone remembers the rap group Kriss Kross who had a song called Jump 15 years ago.And in their video they wore the pants backwards,now how's that for a statement?


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Howard said:


> If anyone remembers the rap group Kriss Kross who had a song called Jump 15 years ago.And in their video they wore the pants backwards,now how's that for a statement?


Maybe that they could as well carry their faces in the back of their trousers? In Germany, we call people like this "bottoms with ears".


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I missed the Prerogative post by Lax.

I loved that song. It's too bad the singer is such a fool.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I missed the Prerogative post by Lax.
> 
> I loved that song. It's too bad the singer is such a fool.


Everybody's talking all this stuff about him. Why don't they just let him live? :icon_smile_wink:


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Albert said:


> Maybe that they could as well carry their faces in the back of their trousers? In Germany, we call people like this "bottoms with ears".


I guess rap groups wanted to try a different way of dressing so they put their shirts on and their pants backwards.At first,I thought it was my television but it was them all along.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Howard said:


> I guess rap groups wanted to try a different way of dressing so they put their shirts on and their pants backwards.At first,I thought it was my television but it was them all along.


That's right, could well be. Did you know that many TV sets emit a form of radiation that can impair your cognitive abilities? It's called "MTV".


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Albert said:


> That's right, could well be. Did you know that many TV sets emit a form of radiation that can impair your cognitive abilities? It's called "MTV".


I knew that MTV was falling apart years ago,It's just not the same as it used to be when I use to watch it in the early 90's.


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