# Men Are Miserable in Their Late 30s



## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

So says a recent British study:



> Men in their late-30s and early-40s are the least content of all of us. ...
> 
> Whether they are mourning the passing of their prime or struggling to cope with the demands of a job and young family, those aged 35-44 invariably hit a mid-life crisis *when their happiness level plunges lower than at any other age*, according to a study for the Government. ...
> 
> Researchers found that it takes men until they reach the age of 65 to start enjoying life as much as they did in their late-teens and early-20s.


I'm 38, by the way. Only 27 years to go until things turn around!

Any thoughts from the members on why this particular age range would be so unpleasant?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I am generally very content with my life, but this time period is/was a time of transition. For me, it has had some melancholy aspect to it as I slowly make the transition from stud-muffin to bran muffin. I can see where people might get depressed as the boundless strength, energy, and drive of youth fades and we have to take better care of ourselves as we realize our mortality.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Having been in your shoes (I'm 42), I think the prospect of turning 40 was the most depressing...and that may be at the root of the problems. Society places such great burdens on men to be successful at everything they do, so much so that personal happiness is often thrown to the wolves.

Turning 40 was particularly difficult for me...knowing that, basically, half my life was over. I am loathe to celebrate birthdays anyway, but I recall sitting on the front steps of our home with a drink and a cigarette (and I don't smoke all that often) getting really melancholy. Once it passed, I gradually started feeling better about myself and the prospects the rest of my life would hold. 

We have not been blessed with children, so the stress of raising kids doesn't factor into our lives. I can honestly say, though, I am now the happiest and most content I have ever been. I finally started my own business and feel I have more control over my professional destiny, I have my health, a beautiful home, interesting clients, fun hobbies, fantastic friends, loving extended families and a beautiful wife who I love deeply.

It's a cliche, but life is truly what you make of it. I saw the "second" half of mine as an opportunity to use the experience and wisdom I had accumulated in the first half to empower myself. Anyway, that's just my two cents...and I'm not really sure if I even answered your question!


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Wayfarer said:


> as I slowly make the transition from stud-muffin to bran muffin.


LOL. I'll need to remember that one.:icon_smile_wink:


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

Phinn said:


> So says a recent British study:
> 
> I'm 38, by the way. Only 27 years to go until things turn around!
> 
> Any thoughts from the members on why this particular age range would be so unpleasant?


I'm 38 also and happy with my life as it is right now.

I can see the dilema with being in your 30's though. You're not old enough to feel "too old" to get wild on a Saturday night, but (at least in my case) you're old enough to know you can't do it every night anymore. In my mind I am a very young 38. Even though I feel young, I know I'm not 21 and hopefully act accordingly at the appropriate times.

As I'm typing this I'm listening to the 69 Boyz - Tootsie Roll. I'm hoping this will keep me young.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

I'm not sure that we can take from the study that the years 35-44 are a tortured hell. The average satisfaction score is a 6.8 (presumbably on a 1-10 scale) so, overall, more happy than not? The high scores cited for various age/gender combinations don't even hit 8.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

If the study is true, than most men are fools/weak.

These are prime years for achievement. Why focusing on that is cause for misery is beyond me. Accomplishment, for me at least, is what brings satisfaction and happiness. I hit 30 this year, the regrets of my twenties aren't the "fun" stuff, they are the missed opportunities to accomplish more. 

Life isn't about behaving like a broke jackass (teens and early twenties).


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

JRR said:


> If the study is true, than most men are fools/weak.
> 
> These are prime years for achievement. Why focusing on that is cause for misery is beyond me. Accomplishment, for me at least, is what brings satisfaction and happiness. I hit 30 this year, the regrets of my twenties aren't the "fun" stuff, they are the missed opportunities to accomplish more.
> 
> Life isn't about behaving like a broke jackass (teens and early twenties).


Do not be so fast to criticize JRR. Trust me, hitting 40 can be a time of very mixed feelings. Just as you take pride in accomplishing more than you ever thought possible, nature starts to let you know that the decline is starting. I too value what I have accomplished, my affluence and lifestyle vs. being rather broke in my youth, and the many good things in life. However, it is all tinged with melancholy as the undeniable fact that my days are numbered becomes clearer and clearer. Wait until a very close friend of your youth drops dead from a health problem. Nothing drives it home quite like that. Now imagine if you are around 40 and have not accomplished much to be proud of and see that time and the odds are against you ever marshalling yourself to meet some of your dreams and goals. I would be depressed if I had made it to this age and could not reflect positively on what I have done so far.

Youth truly is wasted on the young. I think it is a realization that most everyone comes to.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Do not be so fast to criticize JRR. Trust me, hitting 40 can be a time of very mixed feelings. Just as you take pride in accomplishing more than you ever thought possible, nature starts to let you know that the decline is starting. I too value what I have accomplished, my affluence and lifestyle vs. being rather broke in my youth, and the many good things in life. However, it is all tinged with melancholy as the undeniable fact that my days are numbered becomes clearer and clearer. Wait until a very close friend of your youth drops dead from a health problem. Nothing drives it home quite like that. Now imagine if you are around 40 and have not accomplished much to be proud of and see that time and the odds are against you ever marshalling yourself to meet some of your dreams and goals. I would be depressed if I had made it to this age and could not reflect positively on what I have done so far.
> 
> Youth truly is wasted on the young. I think it is a realization that most everyone comes to.


WF,

Fair enough, I see your points. I was probably a little over the top...

I just get frustrated at the whole "partying equals happiness" argument that some seem to hold. The article seems to imply that men want to return to their teen years, that this is the time of bliss. I would argue that a 40 something who wants to be a teen is a bit sad..(not directed at ANYONE on the forum, is a generalization).

I am probably a bore and a curmudgeon, but I think men would be more happy if they would grow up and realize that being a man is about being responsible. Even small accomplishments can help with self esteem etc. Christ, I know a 30 something who is broke b/c he has no self control over spending and has to LIVE WITH HIS MOTHER... Trust me this guy would be happier if he would just man up and PAY HIS OWN BILLS.

Also, being personally responsible at the very least, will allow one to not appear like the pathetic photo in the link. (LOL at that guy!)

Cheers


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

JRR said:


> WF,
> 
> Fair enough, I see your points. I was probably a little over the top...
> 
> ...


He looks like Horatio Caine/David Caruso from CSI-Miami.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

The older I get, the more I understand and the more self confidence I gradually gain.

Of course, because I was never very athletic (I played basketball, but any success I had was from learning to shoot and handle the ball, where athleticism helps but is not essential), I guess I don't notice that much of a decline.

I seem to gradually improve as a musician as life goes on, although some of my precision is not as good because I don't play 10 to 15 hours a week any more.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

I am not misrable, but I have shifted the focus of my enjoyment significantly - I used to take great pleasure from drinking and sex, and was able to eat more freely. I also took a great deal of pride and enjoyment out of being involved in violence. 

now, the focus of my life is providing for my family - I have accepted that my own needs come after those of my family, and it will be that way for at least 2 decades to come. but that doens't make me misrable, it is the stage of life I am in.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

My daughters are adults now, so I'm back to drinking and sex. It's just with the same woman. :icon_smile_big:


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

JRR said:


> WF,
> 
> Fair enough, I see your points. I was probably a little over the top...
> 
> ...


JRR,

I totally agree with all that you have to say here too. Nothing, IMO, is sadder than a 40 year old guy that wants to dress and act as if he is 25. I actually find that I am as social or even more social now than I was at 25, it is just that it is in a different way. For me, sitting outside on a nice desert night with some drinks and friends is far more attractive that "clubbing". Or like last Friday evening, hosting a wine tasting/happy hour with some close friends. To be out at a club at 40 would just annoy me.

I think you are on target as to personal responsibility and I wonder if that is not the cause of some of the distress of these men, as they either have not stepped up to the plate to their responsibilities or are upset they have had them thrust upon them. As Don Corleone <sp?> said, being a man is about taking care of your family.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

KenR said:


> My daughters are adults now, so I'm back to drinking and sex. It's just with the same woman. :icon_smile_big:


Practice makes perfect.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

*Don Corelone speaks the Truth!*



Wayfarer said:


> JRR,
> 
> I totally agree with all that you have to say here too. Nothing, IMO, is sadder than a 40 year old guy that wants to dress and act as if he is 25. I actually find that I am as social or even more social now than I was at 25, it is just that it is in a different way. For me, sitting outside on a nice desert night with some drinks and friends is far more attractive that "clubbing". Or like last Friday evening, hosting a wine tasting/happy hour with some close friends. To be out at a club at 40 would just annoy me.
> 
> I think you are on target as to personal responsibility and I wonder if that is not the cause of some of the distress of these men, as they either have not stepped up to the plate to their responsibilities or are upset they have had them thrust upon them. As Don Corleone <sp?> said, being a man is about taking care of your family.


"... I spend my life trying not to be careless. Women and children can be careless, but not men... I work my whole life, I don't apologize; to take care of my family, and I refused to be a fool, dancing on the string held by all those bigshots. I don't apologize; that's my life, but I thought that, that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the string. Senator Corleone; Governor Corleone... "

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Godfather

God bless the internet!

Anyway, that should be a guy's goal for happiness, taking care of family, trying to provide them a better life than what they had.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

JRR said:


> "... I spend my life trying not to be careless. Women and children can be careless, but not men... I work my whole life, I don't apologize; to take care of my family, and I refused to be a fool, dancing on the string held by all those bigshots. I don't apologize; that's my life, but I thought that, that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the string. Senator Corleone; Governor Corleone... "
> 
> https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Godfather
> 
> ...


I was thinking of his talk to Frankie Fountaine but that works too!


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> I was thinking of his talk to Frankie Fountaine but that works too!


Johnny Fontane? In his office during the wedding? That works too...

Lambasts Johnny for not taking care of his family...


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

JRR said:


> Johnny Fontane? In his office during the wedding? That works too...
> 
> Lambasts Johnny for not taking care of his family...


Johnny...that's right. Have not watched it in a few years, I need to again soon. Yup, the part where Johnny starts to cry.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

If I had to articulate a single reason why I am not as happy and contented as I was at 25, nor as I will be at 65, is that at 38, I have all of the responsibilities of an older man, but none of the wealth, power or independence.

At 25, I had only myself to take care of. I was never one for "partying" anyway. My friends and I would go to upscale, easy-going watering holes, and we would discuss sophisticated, urbane topics in a sophisticated, urbane way, such as how we had no money, how we would like to have more money, how much more fun we'd have if we had more money, etc.

But, everything I owned fit in the back of my sub-compact 4-door. So, I could move at a moment's notice, when I wanted, where I wanted. And I took advantage of that freedom, many times.

My boss (age 65) and his second wife just finished building their dream house in Aspen. Or Vail. One of those hoity-toity places. He's one of about 50 older guys that I could name off the top of my head who are in a similar position.

In my line of work, it pays to have some gray hair. My clients are multi-national corporations and individuals who had enough money to lose a fat wad of cash in bad investments. (I'm a lawyer, and my area is securities fraud and other forms of investor loss.)

But there are about a hundred million gazillion lawyers around age 55-65. There are _*fewer than half*_ as many who are my age. (Generation X was the one that was nearly aborted and contracepted out of existence.) Which means that my age group invariably loses clients to older lawyers.

For these demographic reasons, my age group simply cannot get the kind of traction at this stage of our careers that the older lawyers had when they were in their mid-30s. Everyone I know says the same thing. Their bosses constantly lecture them about how when _*they*_ were nearly 40, they had done X, Y and Z, blah blah blah. Well, Pops, _*you*_ didn't have a gigantic demographic bubble of self-centered Boomer a**holes just ahead of you on the career ladder, soaking up all the opportunities.

Anyway, when they all start to die off and/or retire, we're going to have it relatively easy. By the time I'm in my 50s or so, there will be half as many lawyers working for a larger group of potential clients. So, the future's bright. But in the meantime, people like me sit and wait for the to begin.

In the meantime, at 38, I have acquired a mortgage, student loans out the a**, two cars and a 3 year-old. The house I grew up in cost my dad around $40K in the early 1970s. That same house sold a few years ago for nearly $400,000. In other words, the actual house that my father bought, when he was younger than me, is so far out of my price range that I can't even see if from here. Even though I make over 3 times as much as my father did, my standard of living is lower than my parents' was. And they had 3 kids and one income.

So, yeah, the quality of my daily life is lower now than when I was 25, and lower than I expect it to be when I'm 50+. In terms of economics, anyway.

On the personal side, I guess I'm as well-off as I ever have been. Other than having no free time and stress that could kill an elephant. I'm healthy. I'm a hell of a lot smarter about how to deal with stuff. My relationship with my wife is the best I've ever had. My son is a daily joy. All good things.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Phinn, 

That was one damn funny link.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Phinn said:


> For these demographic reasons, my age group simply cannot get the kind of traction at this stage of our careers that the older lawyers had when they were in their mid-30s. Everyone I know says the same thing. Their bosses constantly lecture them about how when _*they*_ were nearly 40, they had done X, Y and Z, blah blah blah. Well, Pops, _*you*_ didn't have a gigantic demographic bubble of self-centered Boomer a**holes just ahead of you on the career ladder, soaking up all the opportunities.


Hilarious. Best thing I've read all day.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Personally, everything after Kindergarden has been a PITA.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

But you needed the pain to give you your literary muse.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

I am a baby boomer......and it is all about us.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

KenR said:


> I am a baby boomer......and it is all about us.


...and your relentless pursuit of drinking and sex.:icon_smile_wink:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> I slowly make the transition from stud-muffin to bran muffin.





TMMKC said:


> LOL. I'll need to remember that one.:icon_smile_wink:


Good lord...I feel somewhat like the crumbs, that get brushed from the table onto the floor!


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

I think some men are miserable their whole lives - FrankDC comes to mind! But one wonders how much of modern ennui is merely just self-indulgence gone amok. 

I blame Arthur Miller. Was their such a thing as a mid-life crisis before Willie Loman? .......only half kidding.

Karl


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Are you trying to say that the later 50s is a crummy time of life??


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> ...and your relentless pursuit of drinking and sex.:icon_smile_wink:


Let's hope so!



forsbergacct2000 said:


> Are you trying to say that the later 50s is a crummy time of life??


Let's hope not!


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Karl89 said:


> I blame Arthur Miller. Was their such a thing as a mid-life crisis before Willie Loman? .......only half kidding.
> 
> Karl


Excellent point. I think it was at that time, or thereabouts, men started having mid-life crisis and stopped having mistresses. Are the two related?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

When did those who can afford it and/or pull it off ever abandon mistresses?


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Wayfarer,

People drank more back then too. Lets bring back the three martini lunch!

And as to the mistress thing, you could be right, but just in case check with Mrs. Wayfarer for her opinion!

Karl


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> When did those who can afford it and/or pull it off ever abandon mistresses?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Carson#Joanna_Holland


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Johnny just married his - - -


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Karl89 said:


> Lets bring back the three martini lunch!
> 
> Karl


Speaking of that practice, I have a wicked habit of taunting people who work at places with strict no-alcohol-during-working-hours policies by having a drink when I dine with them over lunch. Am I, like the chap in The Chap, a rogue, cad and utter beast or is it all just good fun? Keeps me chuckling as I rapidly leave my 36th behind and greet my 37th.


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> Speaking of that practice, I have a wicked habit of taunting people who work at places with strict no-alcohol-during-working-hours policies by having a drink when I dine with them over lunch.


Apart from jobs where there is a real reason for this (e.g., airline pilots), does anywhere actually have a requirement like this? I can't imagine any business justification for preventing people from having a glass of wine or a beer if they go out for lunch.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I find most employers have an unwritten policy about this.

You don't want to be associated (in most jobs) with drinking during business hours. When I have business lunches, it's been years since anyone even offered to buy an alcoholic drink.

I suppose that is just my experience, though. If I smelled alcohol on an employee's breath (in my accounting department which requires accuracy), I would probably find a way to ease them out without using the alcohol as the reason.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Trilby said:


> Apart from jobs where there is a real reason for this (e.g., airline pilots), does anywhere actually have a requirement like this? I can't imagine any business justification for preventing people from having a glass of wine or a beer if they go out for lunch.


Whether the requirement of abstemious behavior is implicit or explicit, most employees feel pressure to toe the line. Probably very different in the US than in Britain. We've got that Puritan streak running through us.


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## NewYorkBuck (May 6, 2004)

Im 39 and happier than Ive ever been in my life. Maybe the beautiful 27 yr old gf has something to do with it......


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I find most employers have an unwritten policy about this.
> 
> You don't want to be associated (in most jobs) with drinking during business hours. When I have business lunches, it's been years since anyone even offered to buy an alcoholic drink.
> 
> I suppose that is just my experience, though. If I smelled alcohol on an employee's breath (in my accounting department which requires accuracy), I would probably find a way to ease them out without using the alcohol as the reason.


I have a few clients who still drink during lunch, but most do not. I go with the flow. The only problem is, after downing a glass or two of wine over lunch, the first thing I want to do when I get back to my office is take a nap...which brings me back to the thread. I found that serious drinking during the week gets increasingly difficult after 38.


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## SoutherWinds (May 24, 2007)

NewYorkBuck said:


> Im 39 and happier than Ive ever been in my life. Maybe the beautiful 27 yr old gf has something to do with it......


Good catch there! and yes I'm sure it has a lot to do with it.

As long as it passes the "half your age plus 7 rule" your all good!


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Trilby said:


> Apart from jobs where there is a real reason for this (e.g., airline pilots), does anywhere actually have a requirement like this? I can't imagine any business justification for preventing people from having a glass of wine or a beer if they go out for lunch.


It is not a business justification. It is a shift in mores as the "three martini lunch" is viewed a barbaric reminder of white male hegemony in the business world. All brought to you by the left and three decades of programming the young at US universities.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I'm pretty happy with my life,I'm 33 and feel good about myself.But fustrated(sexually)that my girlfriend won't give it up!That's the bad part.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Howard said:


> I'm pretty happy with my life,I'm 33 and feel good about myself.But fustrated(sexually)that my girlfriend won't give it up!That's the bad part.


Glad to know that you're happy. Might I suggest a "three martini lunch" with the girlfriend? That always used to work for me.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

I have to say that the American view regarding a drink at lunch is the height of puritanical foolishness. Of course it is prudent that some professions avoid alcohol during work hours but I hardly think a glass of wine or a beer at lunch creates some sort of workplace liability for an employer. In Europe often the most productive lunches I had (where deals were consumated) were fueled by a bottle of two of wine -and to be honest I am grossly underestimating the alcohol consumed during some of those lunches. 

And F2K, while I have no doubt you are a fine and accurate accountant, I also have no doubt that the Arthur Andersen auditors for Enron and Worldcom abstained from alcohol during lunch and, well, we all know about the accuracy of their work product.

Alas, I didn't partake in the three martini lunch today, but Monday, especially if the Asian markets don't rebound, could see a revival of the practice!

Karl


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> JRR,
> 
> I totally agree with all that you have to say here too. Nothing, IMO, is sadder than a 40 year old guy that wants to dress and act as if he is 25. I actually find that I am as social or even more social now than I was at 25, it is just that it is in a different way. For me, sitting outside on a nice desert night with some drinks and friends is far more attractive that "clubbing". Or like last Friday evening, hosting a wine tasting/happy hour with some close friends. *To be out at a club at 40 would just annoy me.*
> 
> I think you are on target as to personal responsibility and I wonder if that is not the cause of some of the distress of these men, as they either have not stepped up to the plate to their responsibilities or are upset they have had them thrust upon them. As Don Corleone <sp?> said, being a man is about taking care of your family.


I agree the club scene has lost much of the "shine" it had when I was younger. Does the idea of loud music, annoying conversation and watered down expensive drinks every weekend appeal to me the way it used to....NO. My only request though, is when I turn 40 in a few years is to be able to go into a club and not look or feel like a 40 year old struggling to fit in. I might be fooling myself, but I try and keep myself feeling as young as possible. Do I want to be 25 again, no, but I want to be able to have the fun I did at 25....when I feel like it.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Alcohol or lack of it had nothing to do with the clerical accuracy I'm referring to in Arthur Anderson's case. Deliberately ignoring accounting irregularities has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, and I suspect you know that. It also has a lot more to do with one's ethical standards than one's consumption or lack thereof concerning alcohol.

In playing with bands, I'm unfortunately well aware of what the consumption of too much alcohol does to many people's accuracy as I have dealt with dismal public performances when a bass player or drummer has had too much to drink, and I've had to struggle occasionally in vain to overcome that band's handicap. Unless they are a world-famous celebrity, I don't want anything to do with band members who cannot be trusted around alcohol. You can be dismissive of me if you choose. I know what I have had to deal with.

For doing inputting and bookkeeping, alcohol does nothing to help a person's accuracy. If drinking alcohol was part of the company's culture, I would tolerate it, but the company better provide me with enough help to correct the additional errors that we have to be reversed and corrected.

If a sales person or other sort of rainmaker finds that alcohol helps make the sale happen, more power to him. 

In most companies, being known as someone who drinks during lunch is not something that will help you. If you are otherwise a superstar, it may be ignored, but it is not a good idea in most companies. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying that that's the way it is.


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## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

I am 38 and decidedly, not miserable at all. That may change when I am 48, or maybe 58.


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