# Jeep Grand Wagoneer



## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

My father owned two. I've owned one. I like 'em a lot. Anybody else?

I keep hearing rumors that Jeep will (one day) offer the Wagoneer--complete with woodgrain paneling on sides and back tailgate--again in the future. The new Jeep Commander nods to the boxy shape, but it's not quite the Wagoneer of old

For what it's worth: www.wagonmaster.com

Cheers,
Harris


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## wby (Sep 10, 2003)

My parents have had one for years. I think it is a 1984 model, but I am not certain. It still runs perfectly, but it has been through some rough treatment and has a lot of wear and tear. They loaned it to me for a while when I was between vehicles. Now one of my brothers has it. I think it will just continue to get passed around the family. My brother and I were talking recently about getting some body work done and fixing it up a little, but we agreed that we sort of like the reminders of where it has been and what we have done to it over the years. As with a lot of things we discuss on this forum, I am not sure they could do it like they used to, so I don't think I would buy another one if they produced them again. And with current gas prices, I would not drive the family jeep right now. If I ever got the urge to own one, I would either bid on the family jeep or else look for another used one.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

It's a very classy car, I see a lot of them driving around in Grosse Pointe, where the philosophy is to buy a nice car new and keep it pristine forever. The old Roadmaster station wagons are in the same leauge, as well as the pre-80's Eldorados and older Lincoln Mark series.

I wouldn't consider the Commander an homage to the Wagoneer, as much as a response to the Hummer or Mercedes G500 (slanted windscreen with boxy back.) The new Jeeps do look a lot nicer than the older models, especially the new Liberty. The Cherokee is starting to look like a Rover, though (nothing wrong with that, but they should have their own look.)


Good/Fast/Cheap - Pick Two


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## Horace (Jan 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> My father owned two. I've owned one. I like 'em a lot. Anybody else?
> 
> ...


I've always like them myself.

To offer a different experience: when young, some in my family had a penchant for flash -- cars that "everyone" has now, but at the time were rare or rarer. At the time, it caused me a bit of embarassment, even as a child, because they screamed "money".


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

I've always liked them in the dark blue or dark maroon. There's a guy in Birchrunville, PA who rebuilds them and sells them for a lot less than the guy in TX. It gets my vote for the trad of cars. I understand they break a lot but you can keep 'em going.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> It gets my vote for the trad of cars.


An interesting topic. How about new "trad" cars, or cars with more traditional design cues?

The newer Ford Thunderbird (Out of production, but more recent)
Chrysler PT Cruiser
Chevy HHR
Chevy SSR
New Jeep Cherokee or Commander
Pontiac Solstice
Audi TT
BMW Z3 (I think the Z4 is ugly)
Porsche 911 (Timeless design)
Panoz Esperante
Land Rover Range Rover (The design is getting funky, though)
Morgan Aero 8 or Roadster (C'mon 

Good/Fast/Cheap - Pick Two


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> My father owned two. I've owned one. I like 'em a lot. Anybody else?
> 
> ...


Have loved them for years. People think i'm strange, but i've dreamed of owning one and restoring it over time.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

I think I favor the same vintage Ford Country Squire and Oldsmobile 88 Custom Cruiser woody wagons.

One likes to be a little lower to the ground for those trips up to the Cape., plus the third row turnaround seat that you can watch out the back is a plus. 


As for tradly cars, I think the last really trad designs go back to the 1980s...either practical yet classic European designs or staid and formal American big boats:

The Jaguar XJ6 sedans
The Volvo 240 DL

The Ford Crown Vic, Mercury Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car
The Ford Country Squire Wagon (and Mercury Colony Park Wagon)


All the big Rear-Wheel Drive GM sedans (Chevrolet Caprice (and woody wagon), Pontiac Parisienne (and Safari woody Wagon), Olds 88, 98 (and Custom Cruiser woody Wagon), Buick Electra and LeSabre (and Estate woody Wagon), and Cadillac Brougham (I still drive one of these)

The Wagoneer

The Mercedes station wagon


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
> 
> I think I favor the same vintage Ford Country Squire and Oldsmobile 88 Custom Cruiser woody wagons.
> 
> ...


I wonder if the they'll make another Wagoneer. They should.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They tried there for a bit in the mid 90s with the Grand Wagoneer but were so uninspired as to basically just put faux wood on the sides of a Grand Cherokee. Pretty lame. It would be nice to see the classic out there again


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

Yes. It would. My hunch is that they would forego the v-8 360 in favor of a 6 cylinder engine. Of course, the Wagoneers were selling like hotcakes when gas was tres pricey back in the late 70s and early 80s.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Heck, they came out with a PT cruiser with wood grain sides! Someone should email Jeep to see if that is planned.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by shuman_
> 
> Heck, they came out with a PT cruiser with wood grain sides! Someone should email Jeep to see if that is planned.


Yeah just I think the old trad design is gone no matter what. The whole fun of tradly cars like the wagoneer was the classic boxiness. Just the right amount of chrome, and images of trips to the shore, tailgate parties, duck hunting, or first nights at philharmonic concerts depending on the trad model purchased.

The new versions of formerly trad cars (those that still exist) remind me only of nouveau riche soccer moms.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

I agree totally. I'll have to check out your recommendations on the woody wagons at my local classifieds!


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## Siegfried (Nov 11, 2004)

Gentlemen and Ladies,
The one - the only...

Siegfried


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## prato (Jan 5, 2005)

The Grand Wagoneer, for sure.

I vote we cannonize the 126 chassis Mercedes as well, as the 123 are getting quite long in the tooth. Still, it's amazing how beat these can get and still retain their dignity.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

There's a 123 devotee among us. That would be me. I still have my eyes on this beauty ('83 240d at the top):


Cheers,
Harris


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

What is the appeal to you of these particular vehicles (both the old mercedes sedans and the Wagoneers)? I find peoples' interest in cars to be very interesting and these are some particularly interesting examples because they are not particularly "good" vehicles (though the mercedes diesels do run strong for a reasonably long time), nor did they really capture peoples' dreams in their day (I don't mean to insult your taste when saying they are not "good," many of the vehicles I am fond of are also not good vehicles). Is it merely the styling or the memories that they bring up?

Coolidge - I find your mention of the xj sedan to be quite interesting, because I have never met anyone who didn't want to drive theirs off of a cliff.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> There's a 123 devotee among us. That would be me. I still have my eyes on this beauty ('83 240d at the top):
> 
> ...


Very nice!


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## prato (Jan 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> There's a 123 devotee among us. That would be me. I still have my eyes on this beauty ('83 240d at the top):
> 
> ...


That's a beautiful car.


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## prato (Jan 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by pleasehelp_
> 
> What is the appeal to you of these particular vehicles (both the old mercedes sedans and the Wagoneers)? I find peoples' interest in cars to be very interesting and these are some particularly interesting examples because they are not particularly "good" vehicles (though the mercedes diesels do run strong for a reasonably long time), nor did they really capture peoples' dreams in their day (I don't mean to insult your taste when saying they are not "good," many of the vehicles I am fond of are also not good vehicles). Is it merely the styling or the memories that they bring up?


In a word, personality. As for me, I have liked these Mercedes for as long as I can remember. They are solid, dependable, noble and reserved. The door slams satisfyingly. The gauge of the metal is nice. The interiors smell like history and look great too. I just really like these things.

Resonably long time? Some have gone 1,000,000 miles without rebuild. That's a fantastically long time in my book.

That's not to say that I don't enjoy driving. If I had a curvy road and a 930-style 911 I would be very happy indeed. And I must admit I wouldn't turn down a new Lamborghini. But usually I just need to get around.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by pleasehelp_
> 
> Coolidge - I find your mention of the xj sedan to be quite interesting, because I have never met anyone who didn't want to drive theirs off of a cliff.


Oh there's no denying they were utter garbage. A friend of mine has a silver '88. It's beautiful, but: the rear doors no longer unlock by power, the air suspension broke, the air conditioner has died, a little light saying Circuit One Failure Flashes on the dashboard, and the glove compartment occsionally falls open, bashing the passenger very hard in the knee (I speak from painful experience).

That said, it's the classic design, more than the classic reliabiltiy which I mention. I know many trads/trad types who have owned these cars, much as they wished they could drive them off cliffs.

My own preference is for the above mentioned 1980s American large rear-wheel drive sedans and wagons, particularly those from GM. My experience with them (as I still drive one) has been that they are well made, project understated elegance or classic utility depending on the model. and nothing but reliable (though starting the carbureted engines in winter can be a chore).

I personally can be found at the helm of a similar dreadnought to this (formerly my grandfather's) which I believe epitomizes the formal American sedan provided it is not taken hostage by urban subcultures and degraded with rims and tinted windows:

But still, that XJ6 design to me is classic, and trad

And of course, my other favorite is the woody wagon..this one being Buick's model


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## wby (Sep 10, 2003)

Harris,

If my parents were interested in selling, then you would really do well to visit them. In addition to the old Wagoneer, my mom has (until recently) been driving the same Mercedes since 1983 or '84. I am not exactly sure of the model (I am not a big car guy - it is a 4 door sedan), but it is a diesel engine and still runs great. When my grandparents passed away a little while back she inherited a newer Mercedes and put the old diesel in storage. 

My parents also inherited one of the old sports models (red with convertible top). Again, not sure of the year or model, but it is a sweet ride. It is not diesel though. 

Finally, my dad has a 1979 diesel sedan. This, like the Wagoneer, is at one of my brother's houses (in case anyone is thinking that in typical Alabama fashion all these cars are in my parent's front yard). Again, I don't know much, but I was told that this particular model is somewhat of a collector's item. It needs a little work though. I can attest to the smell of those old Mercedes. This 1979 car has an interesting, but very nice, smell to the leather inside. You are inspiring me to learn more about these, as they all need driving occasionally and I am sure they would be more than happy to have me drive them around from time to time.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

The old 240d was not crap. A great car. I can't speak for the turbo diesels, but the non-turbo Mercedes diesels of that era were (and are) well built and, if maintained, will keep going...and going...and going...and going...and...well, you get the idea.

Actually, I can speak to one turbo diesel. A neighbor owns a 300td (wagon) that's just reached the 200,000 mile mark. Still going strong.

Cheers,
Harris


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## wby (Sep 10, 2003)

I think my mom's has over 200,000 miles. Still doing great, though rarely driven now. Actually, I never thought of a Mercedes Benz as very trad. Well, I suppose one that is twenty years or older perhaps is. Now, a Wagoneer, that is very trad.


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

I've owned two Grand Wagoneers and a Volvo 240 Wagon and loved all three.

The first GW was an '84 bought for $2750 in '91, drove it for three years and sold it for $2450. Lowest depreciation of any car I've ever owned. This vehicle was awesome, but rusted out from underneath me (Minnesota).

Next, we bought a used three year old 240 for $11,000, drove it six years and sold it for $6000 (and probably put that much into service fees into it). This was also a beast, but rear wheel drive was tough on a hilly driveway in winter.

I tried to relive my original GW experience and bought a completely rust-free white GW for $4300. I babied this vehicle, driving only in summer, polishing, etc. My five and nine year-old sons were enamored of the bench seat which allowed them to sit next to Dad up front (no air bags) while I tooled around town. Too bad this vehicle wasn't mechanically sound. I barely got into double figures on gas mileage, and was constantly taking it to the shop.

Finally I had to let it go to make room in our garage and our car repair budget. The boys still look back fondly on it. Sold it for $3000 on eBay.


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> There's a 123 devotee among us. That would be me. I still have my eyes on this beauty ('83 240d at the top):


Like this one:

This could be the last day of the rest of your life


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## prato (Jan 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by petro_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That could be a good one, Petro. Have you looked into the cost of an engine?

If you are in the bay area, I've noticed a very high density of 123's at Rossmore, a retirement home in Walnut Creek. Some independent MB mechanic in WC probably knows something...


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## Vettriano Man (Jun 30, 2005)

My Father had a 'Wolseley Traveller' back in the 1950's which was like a box on wheels decorated with what can only be described as _'half-timbering'_ like a tudor building! The back had double doors which opened vertically instead of horizontally and to us little-uns seemed like opening up the great doors of a barn. As a family we must have looked like the Beverly Hillbillies going along jam-packed with kids and family junk!


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

This may be the best deal I've ever seen on Ebay. A navy blue W123 240d. Look at the mileage. Incredible. If the car is in good shape, then it's an extraordinary opportunity to own a superb car:


-Harris


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> This may be the best deal I've ever seen on Ebay. A navy blue W123 240d. Look at the mileage. Incredible. If the car is in good shape, then it's an extraordinary opportunity to own a superb car:
> 
> -Harris


Considering the brick and mortar operation is pretty nearby, I'd be tempted to drive out and look at it if I were interested. Which, considering I am in the middle of law school and not yet employed, I am not.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Just agreed to purchase a Jeep Grand Wagoneer '88 for a mere $850. Its most pressing need is a brake line on the drivers side. Guess its a hub halfway back that needs fixing. ANyone with more know-how than me have an idea what this should cost? Thanks.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

No matter what it costs now it will cost a lot to keep repairing it. Nonetheless, it will still end up costing less than a new car.

I hope that you are fortunate to have another car to rely upon during its time in the shop. Such time is inevitable. There are so many things that inevitably break, no matter how high or low it scored on the Consumer Reports chart back in 198x.



My old Cadillac has occasionally been hospitalized for a week at a time and as I am still in law school I can't afford to purchase a second car for a daily driver. Sometimes this can be quite annoying. One week I took taxis to school.


Count on a few hundred I would think for the brake line.

I hope you're having it checked for other things. You might as well get them done now as hourly labor rates will only go up.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Yes. Agreed. I wasnt sure if it was similar to having brake pads, etc. done or more or less costly. Otherwise, it seems in good mechanical order, for a car nearly 20 years old.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Got it back from inspection and dropped at the body shop. Only two major things wrong were skid plate rusted through, some rust on frame, and rusted brake line on drivers side. I think thats good for a 20 yr. old car. Cant wait to get it back to driving condition.


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