# Huntin' fishin' an' shootin'



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Killing animals in other words.

I've always wondered about how hunters, anglers, "big game" fishermen, and bird shooters think and feel.

I don't want this to be a discussion about the rights and wrongs of killing animals, I'm just not interested in that. And as such I'm not passing judgement on those who do hunt & fish.

What I'm interested in knowing from hunters, fishermen, shooters is, first of, all Why do you do it? Is it for the adrenaline kick or for fun or for food? 
How does it feel to kill an animal? Is there any remorse and sickness afterwards?
And what is the largest thing you've killed?

(NB: Military personnel former & serving, you know the SOP here, official secrets and all that, so the answer is not a Vietnamese or an Argentinian (for us older chaps) or an Iraqi, Serbian or Afghani for the younger chaps :icon_smile_wink 


I've never even killed a mouse, a rat, a bird or a fish and certainly nothing larger with four legs!
I've just never felt the need to hunt or fish and don't really think I could kill an animal to be honest, unless it was a dog, lynx or wolf or something else threatening me or someone in my vicinity. 

To be honest, I couldn't even put a wounded animal out of its misery. I know that for a fact as I've been tested twice and just couldn't do it, someone else had to. Once it was just a small bird that had been hit by a car. The next time was a roe deer also hit by a car. Luckily other people nearby were quite prepared to swing wheel braces and tyre irons to do the deed. 

(Footnote: another discussion I know, but when it came to being on the frontline or in the line of fire both military and civil, then I had no problem being armed to the teeth and/or prepared to inflict serious violence on people.)

So perhaps it has something to do with some deep seated feeling of not wanting to kill creatures not equal to my own size and intelligence. I don't know.

Let's hear from you guys. 

PS. I genuinely have nothing against hunting and fishing and as such would like to thank those who do for all the game meat, game bird and game fish over the years. Delicious! Smoked elk heart is amazing!


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## JohnRov (Sep 3, 2008)

Well, as for the actual killing part, I fished growing up so it never really bothered me at all, but hunting is something different. I really don't hunt much, just a couple days a year because my father-in-law likes to go, but I have taken two deer in the past three years. I have also gone pheasant hunting. There is a certain seriousness as you approach a deer you just killed, a moment of truth realizing that it's a serious act and not something to be taken lightly. There is, at least for me, a difference in perception between killing a fish, a bird, and a deer. Not sure that's rational but it is a truth.

As for hunting in general, I'll take sitting in the woods any day. There have been times I've been sitting there with big snow flakes floating down in absolute silence, that were amazing. It is really all I need when I go out.

Shooting is completely different. I'm very competitive and shooting requires a lot of dedication and practice to become proficient. Add to that there are a lot of cool "toys" to buy and it sucks me in. I shoot trap and long range rifle for the most part.

I don't know if that answers your question, just my stab at it on short notice.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

JohnRov said:


> There is a certain seriousness as you approach a deer you just killed, a moment of truth realizing that it's a serious act and not something to be taken lightly.


Thanks John, that very much answers part of my question. The awareness that, from your personal perspective anyway, it is a serious act to kill a wild mammal.


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## MR MILLER (Feb 23, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Thanks John, that very much answers part of my question. The awareness that, from your personal perspective anyway, it is a serious act to kill a wild mammal.


Im a texen and an army brat so shooting has always been in my blood i grew up arounds guns and such my whole life, fishing for me is just a relaxing way to spend an early morning or late summer night even if i dont catch anything at all its the experience the same goes for hunting big game obviously id like to "catch" something but i think the experience of it all is still the most appealing factor, tracking an animals daily living pattern following it untill the perfect time to act, sheer excitment!!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I was raised in a home in which my Mom was raising three young children on her own. She supported us by cleaning other peoples homes and doing their dirty laundry. Times were financially difficult. When I was 12 years old, I began hunting with a neighbor and had begun fishing several years before that. We ate everything I caught or shot, including Trout, Bass, pan fish (I think they were Bluegills), rabbits, squirrels, Ruffed Grouse, Pheasant, Whitetail Deer. We also cultivated a fairly large vegetable garden that provided for most of our needs for vegetables...my Mom did a lot of canning! 

Old habits carried on into adulthood and groundhogs, several coyotes and an Elk were added to my list of game taken. While the elk was eaten and there always seemed to be a farmer or two that was willing to take the groundhog carcasses off my hands, the coyotes were taken for their pelts. Jeez, that sounds too much like Grizzly Adam's!   Oddly, I quit hunting for a number of years, when our oldest daughter wanted to disown me because she thought I had killed Bambi!


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

I grew up in the suburbs, so never had the inclination to hunt or fish. Just never came up. When I joined the Marines, I became an Intel Analyst. One of our required schools is SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance, & Escape). I'm a small guy, and dropped quite a few pounds during the courses I attended. Part of the training is figuring out how to survive on local foodstuff including fish, squirrel, bug, or whatever.

I look at Fishing & hunting as a means of survival. Humans are omnivores by nature. We are designed to process meat based protein to survive. I enjoy the act of cooking & eating, but not the act of killing. That is merely an act of necessity. Generally speaking, I am "willing" to hunt/fish but prefer to purchase my meat from a pure lazyness standpoint.

Now.. As for the "armed to the teeth" comment. I'm a firm believer in the "walk/talk softly but carry a big stick" philosophy. A man should always have some means of self defense. Not necessarily a gun, but a big stick (even an umbrella) will work.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

You know I'd love to come over to the States and one of you guys could take me out & show me what it's all about. Some scary blood pumping adrenaline rushing stuff like tracking puma or bear!


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

I grew up rural and shooting animals is part of farm life. Rabbit and hares compete with stock for food so must be maintained if the farm is to stay profitable. The same goes with duck shooting, although the traditions of that brings in a social perspective (and breasting a dam wall to put a bead on a duck before it's gone is a big adrenaline kick). Putting wounded animals that can't be fixed out of their misery is also a humane act that is part of farming. That said, it's still not a pleasant thing to do, particularly when it is your sister's cat that has been hit by a car!!! I have never hunted big game nor had the inclination to.

Since becoming a townie I have become soft and don't like killing animals. I will fish for the table but also exercise a catch and release policy where appropriate. For me, fishing is about the tranquility of the surroundings, the skill required to hook a fish, the thrill of the fight and, afterwards, either the satisfaction of seeing the fish swim away or choosing which sauce to serve it with!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I like to fish for flounder and rockfish (striped bass) I never got the hang of freshwater fishing. We catch and eat!!

I liked trap and skeet shooting. I'd like to go deer hunting during shotgun season but have not had the chance.

Fish I can clean myself but birds and deer I'd need help with the butchering.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

I have been shooting since I was six years old but maintain on rule constantly. If one kills it must be for survival. If one shoots it, you either eat it or it was about to eat you. Trophy hunters are not welcome around me and those who engage in canned hunts...well I can't write the words I have for them.


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

I have been an avid fisherman since my father taught me how some 25 years ago. Heere in the states it seems that these things are passed down through family as tradition. Something raw and real to bind us together in our humanity in a world of I-phones and e-mail on vacations. My sister-in-law's family are deer hunters, and the oldest son(10) just went on his first hunt. It just depends on the family you are born into. Currently I fly fish for trout, and have never killed one. The scenery on a trout stream is beautiful; in these parts most trout fishermen take a special pride in not only leaving no sign(that we were there), but picking up after the less condiderate. I don't b!^ch if I find a beer can, I just pick it up and carry it out with me. Realise that like driving a car, having nature accessible to the public is a privelage, not a right. When fishing for walleye with my dad and brother, dinner had been killed quickly and cleaned. We were sent out with the pail of heads, guts, ect... to drive across the lake to prevent bear from coming into our camp. Dad's instructions: straight across the lake, leave on an exposed rock for the gulls and eagles, and on the ride you THANK the fish for their life we took! By using ALL parts you honor their life.
Tha point is that no matter what you kill it won't kill you to show some respect!:icon_smile:


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

*https://yfrog.com/bcnorthernlightsj*

Good reasons to be outside


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## mjc (Nov 11, 2009)

Personally, I would like to hunt snowmobilers. Unfortunately, it's illegal in Ontario, probably because they're an endangered species (drinking beer and then driving across spring ice is very endangering).

For now, it's just a catch-and-release program on the family farm, targeting the trespassers with the loudest engines and ugliest fluorescent nylon jackets...

- Mike


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

"Some scary blood pumping adrenaline rushing stuff like tracking puma or bear! "

Actually it is not as big a rush as you suspect. However if they are tracking you it is an entirely different situation.
Besides, I like bears.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

mjc said:


> Personally, I would like to hunt snowmobilers. Unfortunately, it's illegal in Ontario, probably because they're an endangered species (drinking beer and then driving across spring ice is very endangering).
> 
> For now, it's just a catch-and-release program on the family farm, targeting the trespassers with the loudest engines and ugliest fluorescent nylon jackets...
> 
> - Mike


We feel the same of their waterbourne cousins, the dreaded SeaDoo!!


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## sowilson (Jul 27, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> We feel the same of their waterbourne cousins, the dreaded SeaDoo!!


I just love it when the SeaDoo's (or water skiers) buzz my boat when I'm fishing. We have a 50' separation rule and it's often violated. That's when I bring out some rather large Muskie baits. A collection of size 8 treble hooks coming at you tends to get your attention, as well as the gleam of a S&W 686 that just so happens to need a bit of polish when you buzz to close.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Ormund, 
I'll try to address your various concerns as best I can, from my perspective as a life-long westerner, with five years of residence in the greater New York region.

I grew up in the West. Almost all my relatives owned firearms. We didn't have guns in our home, but my mother and her husband gave me a BB gun when I was in fourth grade. Although I am quite far to the left politically, I have no objection to people owning firearms. 

As an adult I have enjoyed target shooting and I have taught my sons and daughter to shoot. My two youngest sons live in Montana and hunt regularly. 

I fly fish and release what I catch. I enjoy eating game, and would willingly hunt if I had the time and opportunity.

As to mercy killing, I have put injured animals out of their misery. It seems a decent thing to do. 

I am not enthusiastic about trophy or so-called varment hunting. I think it shows a lack of respect for the animals, and brutalizes the individuals who do it. I have observed that enthusiasm for killing abates as people grow older.

I equate a sense of personal security with possession of firearms in the home. I am familiar with the law as it relates to the use of deadly force and am quite prepared to shoot a dangerous intruder inside my home. I am also quite prepared to let him or her walk away unharmed.

I also believe an armed populace is good for democracy. I do not imagine any meaningful ability to resist, just a symbolic assertion of the sovereigenty of the individual. 

I hope this is helpful.

Best regards,
Gurdon


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## balder (Jan 23, 2008)

I've never shot anything bigger than rabbits and ducks-I was never that good a shot!I'm now too lazy to get out of bed at the early hours of the morning to do it!Never did any fishing but I could never see the point of coarse fishing,catching something you could'nt eat.If you could'nt eat it I did'nt see the point in hunting it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Country Irish said:


> I have been shooting since I was six years old but maintain on rule constantly. If one kills it must be for survival. If one shoots it, you either eat it or it was about to eat you. Trophy hunters are not welcome around me and those who engage in canned hunts...well I can't write the words I have for them.


LOL! While I have yet to go on a canned hunt (I assume you are referring to contract hunts, on which the game is brought to you and all the customer has to do is shoot it) and cannot ever see myself doing so, we have on a number of occassions, canned the fruit of our hunts. That was the way we preserved larger game, prior to the advent of large chest freezers in the home!


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## MichaelS (Nov 14, 2005)

*AS to hunting*

I like to hunt because I both like the taste of game and prefer to eat meat that is not factory raised and full of hormones, antibiotics, etc. I also feel that killing an animal in the woods is less "cruel" than what happens in large factory slaughter houses. (When we buy meat, we choose to purchase organically raised free range meat from local producers who do their own slaughtering and butchering. I know, I sound like a stereotype but this is our choice). I don't understand trophy hunting.

That said, if I had to survive on my hunting skills, I'd be in big trouble!

Target shooting is just fun. I have my grandmother's .22 marlin rifle she had to have in the early 1900's when her first Army Doctor husband was stationed out in the boonies in the Philippines and everyone had to have a weapon. It shoots well and bullets are incredibly cheap. It's just fun. (We do shoot skeet in the fall to get ready for duck season so that actually has a purpose).

Fishing is relaxing and I usually throw everything back (except for the occasional trout or a large northern pike).


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

As an _occassional_ hunter and fisherman (frankly, I lack the patience required to be very serious about either of them), there is something very primal about killing and eating your own food. It puts you very much in touch with the mortality that is at the source of all the meat that we eat. I think it's somewhat unfortunate that so many of us are omnivores, but live hermetically sealed off from the ending-of-life that meat-eating necessarily requires. It's easy to be in denial when you're eating a steak or hamburger made from a cow that someone you never met did away with in some building you've never seen and the meat came to you in plastic wrap or pre-cooked on a bun. I wonder if people might not take the ethical choices involved in being a carnivore, and feel a greater obligation to demand a decent life for food-stock animals, if they had more connection with the slaughtering process.

I do occassionally go trout fishing and do catch-and-release (which is certainly the dominant ethic within the fly-fishing community). No killing, no eating, just the technical challenge of making good casts, and the mental puzzle of figuring out where the fish are, what they want to eat that day, and how to disguise a hook to look like whatever it is they want.


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

Among the scenes which are deeply impressed on my mind, none exceed in sublimity the primeval forests undefaced by the hand of man. No one can stand in these solitudes unmoved, and not feel that there is more in man than the mere breath of his body.

-Charles Darwin


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Additional thoughts*

I think about the animals I am eating; how they lived and how they died. It seems to me to be a matter of respect. Commercial meat and fish raising are pretty disgusting, as are commercial chicken operations, but I am no more or less revulsed by commercial meat processing than by the hunting and dressing of game.

For philosophical and aesthetic reasons,there are some animals I dont eat: species in danger of extinction, horses, dogs and cats, cetaceans, songbirds, snakes 'possums, squirrels, catfish.

The presence of lead particles in game appears to be a problem that has not, until recently widely appreciated. Dealing with it rationally has been hindered by concern that it is a contrived issue somehow connected with anti-gun partisans. This is compunded by visceral anti-environmental reactions by many in the huinting and gun-owning population who see "environmentalism" as elitist and somehow un-American.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL! While I have yet to go on a canned hunt (I assume you are referring to contract hunts, on which the game is brought to you and all the customer has to do is shoot it) and cannot ever see myself doing so, we have on a number of occassions, canned the fruit of our hunts. That was the way we preserved larger game, prior to the advent of large chest freezers in the home!


Yes a canned hunt is generally some circus animal that is no longer wanted and is released for some low life to shoot. If they can't manage that the animal is staked out, and if they can't do that the guide shoots it for them. It is generally an old tamed animal and the shooter is generally some useless soul who has money to spend instead of courage or ethics.
As for canning what is hunted, that is no problem if you know how. The best I could do is either freeze it or make jerky. I don't do much of either these days. I am just rambling of times gone by. The hunting is behind me and only a target before me.


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