# Why do Tuxedos tend to not have vents? What determines need for vents in any jacket?



## Peat (Jun 18, 2006)

I have noticed that a lot of Tuxedos do not have vents. Or maybe I just happen to have seen very few with them.

Why is this? It seems to me that a vent or two on any jacket is a useful thing for numerous reasons.

Any thoughts?


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

As I understand it, dinner jackets were originally made without vents, for some reason or other, and this custom has continued. Today I see the issue as akin to that surrounding the notch lapel; the latter is associated with business clothing, as are either type of vent, whereas peak lapel/roll collar and ventless styles are clearly marked out. It is the opinion of many (here at least) that side vents are more acceptable, while a centre vent is highly undesirable.
I can't say what determines the need for vents in jackets, as I for one have never noticed much difference between ventless, single, or double vented in terms of how the jacket looks when worn.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Sport coats originally had center vents. They allowed the wearer freer (upper body) movement. Some coats had/have extra material in the back to allow even more movement (don't remember the name of this contraption). Somewhere down the line vents became a fashion statement in traditional coats such as suits and tuxedos. And now we are stuck with them as far as the majority of readymade is concerned!


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Vents were originally for sporting purposes, which is why they aren't as appropriate on dinner jackets. Vents have become commonplace in business suits, and they are completely acceptable there. Vents make wearing a jacket a bit more comfortable when sitting down and when reaching into trouser pockets.


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## comrade (May 26, 2005)

Jake1990 said:


> As I understand it, dinner jackets were originally made without vents, for some reason or other, and this custom has continued. Today I see the issue as akin to that surrounding the notch lapel; the latter is associated with business clothing, as are either type of vent, whereas peak lapel/roll collar and ventless styles are clearly marked out. It is the opinion of many (here at least) that side vents are more acceptable, while a centre vent is highly undesirable.
> I can't say what determines the need for vents in jackets, as I for one have never noticed much difference between ventless, single, or double vented in terms of how the jacket looks when worn.


"Originally" may be 130 years ago. I have a tuxedo that I purchased in 1965.
It has a center vent. It is from Paul Stuart, a leading high-end menswear shop 
in New York.


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

comrade said:


> "Originally" may be 130 years ago. I have a tuxedo that I purchased in 1965.
> It has a center vent. It is from Paul Stuart, a leading high-end menswear shop
> in New York.


That would be why I said 'originally', by which I implied the origin of the dinner jacket around a century ago.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Jake1990 said:


> That would be why I said 'originally', by which I implied the origin of the dinner jacket around a century ago.


The dinner jacket is a bit older than that actually. But since you mentioned it, here is something for a dinner jacket circa 1910 from no less an authority than W.D.F. Vincent:










Note the centre vent on the far left - and the step collar on the far right.


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm an historian, and my concept of a century has consequently become somewhat flexible! Re early examples of step/notch and vents, I get the impression from this forum that they were in the minority, and whether or not that's accurate, I think it's more their association with business clothing which lies behind the views of many here. Personally I don't care what other people choose to wear - its up to them.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

I have an extensive history in the Formalwear Chapter of The *Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes*, but briefly since the Dinner Jacket (Tuxedo) origins were from riding clothes "they" tried to deviate as much as possible from riding clothes!

Vents serve a function for sitting on a horse (or chair!) so the jacket was designed without vents. Even Formal trousers have NO cuffs!


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

I'm probably being the devil's advocate here, Andy, but you can also argue that tail coats such as the dress coat for evening wear and the morning coat for daywear are also sports coats and riding attire, inappropriate for anything else. Tail coats also have centre vents.


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

I like a centre vent on everything, even a tux.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

My understanding is that the ventlessness comes under the principle of "simpler=more formal," which also covers the lack of pocket flaps and the completely plain toe (not even a toe cap allowed) of the type of oxford that is traditionally considered most appropriate (in terms of lace-up shoes) with black tie.

As for me, I prefer a ventless d.j., but have worn some with center vents (just as I have worn d.j.'s with flapped pockets and--gasp--_notch lapels_). The vent is not a show-stopper in my personal "book."

My current fave RTW tux is my JAB PL, which has jetted pockets and no vent.


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## oroy38 (Nov 11, 2009)

I have a few suits with center vents, and as long as a jacket fits how I want it to, then I could care less about whether its single or double vented.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PJC in NoVa said:


> As for me, I prefer a ventless d.j., but have worn some with center vents (just as I have worn d.j.'s with flapped pockets and--gasp--_notch lapels_). The vent is not a show-stopper in my personal "book."


Personally I think that all this talk about vents and lapels and patent leather and who knows what else that goes on is much ado about nothing. If you have a well fitting tuxedo (regardless of style), a self tied bow tie, and nicely shined shoes you will be in the upper echelon of almost any black tie event you might attend. I have no problem with those who want to follow the "rules" to the letter, but following the rules to the letter isn't necessary to look nice and be appropriately dressed at a black tie affair.

If I were to attend a black tie affair tomorrow night I would wear a notch lapel tuxedo, a five button vest, and a pair of captoe bals. Would I pass muster in this forum, of course not; but I will look nicer than a majority of the other guys attending the event because my tuxedo fits and my shoes will be shined. I'll also tie my own tie but some will probably say that is a setback. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Cruiser: You would look fine except for the five button waistcoat. Get a cummerbund instead!

Dinner jackets look better with pocket flaps than back vents to me. I'm not certain why this is.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

PJC in NoVa said:


> My understanding is that the ventlessness comes under the principle of "simpler=more formal," which also covers the lack of pocket flaps and the completely plain toe (not even a toe cap allowed) of the type of oxford that is traditionally considered most appropriate (in terms of lace-up shoes) with black tie.


But that same "principle" is directly controverted by the stripe on tuxedo trousers, the required addition of a waistcoat/cummerbund, the use of studs rather than buttons, etc. People get into trouble when they try to "reason" their way though clothing rules and identify fundamental "laws" of the clothing universe that can be applied more broadly. They're derived from logic in the same way that the grammar rules are. I.e., not really. The logical underpinnings are so obscured by purely cultural/historical factors that you just have to accept the meaning (and connotations) of elements of dress as given, but somewhat flexible over time.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Jovan said:


> Cruiser: You would look fine except for the five button waistcoat. Get a cummerbund instead!


I have a cummerbund. I just don't like them nor do I particularly care for the look of those low cut vests. I know those things are considered "proper" black tie, but I just don't feel comfortable wearing something that I find unattractive.

Personally I like the look of a vest and like for some of it to show. Obviously if I had to wear a cummerbund for some reason I would; that's why I have one, but for ordinary events I like what I have. Actually I like the silver vests also but I don't have one. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> I have a cummerbund. I just don't like them nor do I particularly care for the look of those low cut vests. I know those things are considered "proper" black tie, but I just don't feel comfortable wearing something that I find unattractive.
> 
> Personally I like the look of a vest and like for some of it to show. Obviously if I had to wear a cummerbund for some reason I would; that's why I have one, but for ordinary events I like what I have. Actually I like the silver vests also but I don't have one. :icon_smile:
> 
> Cruiser


I find cummerbunds awkward, troublesome (always slipping out of place, it seems), and not altogether comfortable. A vest is much to be preferred as far as I'm concerned. I have one in a sort of self-color black paisley brocade from JAB. Or I will just wear my DB tux so I can skip both vest and cummberbund.

For reasons of practicality, I too also normally wear plain-cap calfskin bals (black and well-shined, of course) with my tux. In truth, no one has ever even remarked upon my footwear either way; it's not like there are flying squads of "opera-pump police" out there waiting to pounce in the real world.

Another exception to the "simpler=more formal" principle or rule of thumb or whatever is the formal shirt: a pleated or marcella shirtfront is of course less plain than, well, a plain shirtfront, but the former we wear with a tux and the latter we generally eschew when it comes to black-tie situations.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Another exception to the "simpler=more formal" principle or rule of thumb or whatever is the formal shirt: a pleated or marcella shirtfront is of course less plain than, well, a plain shirtfront, but the former we wear with a tux and the latter we generally eschew when it comes to black-tie situations.


Excellent point.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Another exception to the "simpler=more formal" principle or rule of thumb or whatever is the formal shirt: a pleated or marcella shirtfront is of course less plain than, well, a plain shirtfront, but the former we wear with a tux and the latter we generally eschew when it comes to black-tie situations.


Actually I prefer a plain front shirt with my tuxedo. I have a pleated shirt just like I have a cummerbund, but my shirt of choice these days is a simple white dress shirt. Mine is an Eagle brand white shirt with French cuffs, a semi-spread collar, and a subtle white on white herringbone pattern. It had a pocket that I had to carefully remove.

I've thought about having my tailor make a button strip out of the buttons and retrofitting the shirt for studs, but I doubt that I will ever do this. I'm not wild about studs either, and I can always wear the pleated shirt if I want to use studs.

Cruiser


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> Actually I prefer a plain front shirt with my tuxedo. I have a pleated shirt just like I have a cummerbund, but my shirt of choice these days is a simple white dress shirt. Mine is an Eagle brand white shirt with French cuffs, a semi-spread collar, and a subtle white on white herringbone pattern. It had a pocket that I had to carefully remove.


I've done this myself and find it acceptable. White poplin or white-on-white fabrics work just fine IMO. I make sure the buttons are MoP. I was inspired to do this from seeing Roger Moore in _Octopussy_ when he wears a white light-weight poplin (or perhaps something more luxurious) shirt with a spread collar and double cuffs with his white dinner jacket. The buttons were a simple MoP. This shirt would be better worn with a lounge suit, but for black tie I find the simplicity very elegant. What makes this shirt even more appropriate in Roger Moore's situation is that he was in India at the time. So I'm sure this made things a bit more comfortable.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Matt S said:


> I've done this myself and find it acceptable. White poplin or white-on-white fabrics work just fine IMO. I make sure the buttons are MoP. I was inspired to do this from seeing Roger Moore in _Octopussy_ when he wears a white light-weight poplin (or perhaps something more luxurious) shirt with a spread collar and double cuffs with his white dinner jacket. The buttons were a simple MoP. This shirt would be better worn with a lounge suit, but for black tie I find the simplicity very elegant. What makes this shirt even more appropriate in Roger Moore's situation is that he was in India at the time. So I'm sure this made things a bit more comfortable.


I've done it too, but only in a pinch (got blood on formal shirt while dressing with a nick on hand I didn't realize had opened up again). And again, no one noticed that I was wearing a standard-issue white-poplin FC pocketless business shirt--or at least no one said anything about my lack of pleats 'n' studs.

If one is wearing a high-cut vest, that downshifts the shirtfront as a player in the black-tie ensemble anyway.


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## Busterdog (Jan 1, 2010)

DJs were originally 'smoking jackets' to be worn at home in the evening. They were made popular by the the then Prince of Wales (later King Edward VII) who - being a portly gentleman- felt uncomfortable in stiff shirt and tail coat formality when gambling of an evening in Monte Carlo. DJs were ventless as one wasn't expected to go riding or shooting in 'casual' attire. 
Double vents on a jacket hid ones bum when riding, a single vented jacket allowed one ease of movement when shooting. 

Personally my dinner jacket does not have vents though does have flaps on the pockets - each to his own I guess.


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