# Vass RTW Shoes



## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

By the time I purchased Bernhard Roetzelâ€™s book _Gentleman: A Timeless Fashion_ in 2000, I was already a shoe nut. I think the bug had initially bitten me a few years earlier when I took Alan Flusserâ€™s advice to heart and went searching for a pair of brown cap-toes to be my first pair of good dress shoes. Roetzelâ€™s text may have been confusing, and his single-minded devotion to Churchâ€™s may have been odd; but his pictures redoubled my interest. When another book published by Koenemann showed up at the top of my Amazon recommendation list, its title alone ensured that I would have to buy it: _Handmade Shoes For Men_ by Laszlo Vass and Magda Moldar.

The Vass book was a revelation. I had no idea the kind of effort and skill it took to produce handmade shoes and no conception of the kinds of effects that could be produced by intelligently-designed shoes. Where discussions of shoemaking that I had read previously had only confused me, Vassâ€™s descriptions, diagrams, and pictures made everything (or, rather, the basics of everything) about as clear as could be without watching an artisan making a shoe. And the shoes! I had never seen such shoes before. Some, like the Budapester, looked exotic. Some, like the plain-toe blucher with holes all over the upper of the shoe, were, frankly, remarkably ugly. But they all had character, and they all convinced me that I had to seek out and try Vass shoes.

I soon sought and found Vassâ€™s website. There was an e-mail address listed, and I sent an inquiry asking where Vass shoes were sold in the United States. At Star Shoes in Washington, DC, replied Eva Vass, Laszloâ€™s daughter. (Star Shoes is the former name of the oft-mentioned and oft-praised Sky Valet.) And so I looked up Starâ€™s phone number and called. Do you have a Budapester on Budapest last in my size, I asked. No, they didnâ€™t. How about on Banana last? No, not that one either. How about any shoe at all in my size? No, Iâ€™m sorry, sir. I thought that it was simply not to be.

And then along came Andrew Harris in the fall of 2003, offering on Style Forum the opportunity to purchase a special-order Budapester and a special-order U-last plain-toe balmoral with a floating medallion (more on U last later). I bit, I received the shoes, and Iâ€™ve been hooked on Vass ever since. They are the best-made and most comfortable RTW shoes that I have ever purchased.

*Materials*

The quality of raw materials used in shoe production are, of course, extremely important in determining the quality of the finished product; and the leather used for the upper, the lining, the welt strip, the insole, and the outsole are the most important raw materials in shoe production. Vassâ€™s insoles, outsoles, and welt strips are made from top-grade vegetable-tanned leather. (Rendenbach is probably the most famous and best-reputed producer of sole leather in the world, although there are a few other tanneries that do a superlative job as well.) Vass sources the leather used for its uppers from some of the finest tanneries in the world, including for its shell cordovan. I donâ€™t know which tanneries Vass uses for its calfskin, but I do know that the calfskin is excellent. Itâ€™s of the thicker, beefier variety favored by English manufacturers, which is appropriate given the larger scale of the shoes that Vass typically produces.

*Production*

Vass shoes are handmade. It is useful to explore more fully exactly what the term "handmade" means when applied to Vass shoes, particularly when it is impossible to visit a shoe store without being bombarded by claims made by manufacturers and salesmen alike that a particular brand is handmade or handgrade or fatte a mano or something similar. Traditionally shoemaking has been divided into a number of tasks, of which the most important ones are *lastmaking* (the production of the last or form on which the shoes are made), *patternmaking* (the creation of patterns that can be used to cut out leather pieces that can be sewn together to form the upper design), *clicking* (cutting out the pieces of leather that form the upper), *closing* (stitching the pieces of the uppers and lining together), *lasting* (pulling the stitched-together upper and lining over the last and affixing it thereto), *welting* (stitching the upper and a narrow leather strip called the welt to a carved-out rib on the underside of the insole called a feather or a holdfast), *making* (stitching the welt to the outsole and the building of the heels of the shoe), and *finishing* (polishing the uppers and soles, smoothing down the heel and sole edges, applying the edge dressing to the sole and heel edges, etc.).

For RTW shoes, the lastmaking and patternmaking will have been completed long before the maker even comtemplates a finished pair, so weâ€™ll not consider them further. Some makers will call a shoe handmade if a pair of hands touches the shoes at some point during the manufacturing process. This usage is plainly misleading. A typical high-end factory-made pair of shoes from a company such as Edward Green will have the upper leather hand-clicked. The pieces of the upper and lining are then stitched together using a sewing machine guided by hand (the exception, of course, being handsewn elements like the apron stitch on the EG Dover). The finished uppers are then lasted using a machine that throws a wire around the overhang of the upper placed on the last. A Goodyear welting machine, guided by hand, does the welting and making. Workers finish the shoes by hand, with the assistance of a buffing wheel. Itâ€™s reasonable to call the product of these labors handmade since there are steps perfoemed entirely by hand and since the ones done with a machine still are done one at a time by a skilled laborer.

Of course, neither of these two usages of the word "handmade" acurately describe the process that Vass uses to produce its shoes. As with Edward Green, the leather is clicked by hand and closed using a sewing machine guided by hand. An artisan then lasts the shoes by pulling the upper and lining leather over the last using shoemakers pincers and nailing it in place. The welting and making are also done by hand, using shoemakerâ€™s twine and an awl. The finishing is also done by hand. It takes an order of magnitude more time to produce a Vass shoe than it does an Edward Green shoe, and the vast majority of that time is spent doing highly specialized hand operations requiring great amounts of skill. Does this mean that Edward Green shoes are hunks of junk unworthy of praise or money? No, of course not. Edward Green, and many other producers of factory-made shoes, sell a wonderful product, remarkable for the quality and refinement of the lasts used and the care with which the shoes are made. Still, though, I would rather have a shoe handmade in the sense that Vass shoes are handmade.

Why? Well, letâ€™s be perfectly honest and admit that some of it is the romance of having shoes made the same way they were a hundred years ago. But that isnâ€™t the only or even the most significant reason. There are practical benefits to wearing handmade shoes instead of machine-made ones. Take, for example, hand-clicking. This is particularly useful because leather is not a uniform substance. Every hide is different, and each will have a certain number of imperfections. Hand-clicking will allow the maker to cut around the imperfections and to select regions of the hide that are appropriate for the different elements of the upper. Perhaps a machine could be constructed that could do as good or almost as good a job at avoiding imperfections in the hide and selecting the appropriate region of the hide for the appropriate piece of the upper; but as far as I know, such a machine does not exist today and is not incontemplation. The same can be said of waist construction. One particularly desireable feature of a hand-made town shoe is a true beveled waist, where the sole edges are rounded over and pressed so tight against the upper that one cannot see the welt stitching. It is possible for a machine-sewn shoe to have a reasonably good impersonation of a beveled waist â€" see, for example, the John Lobb Paris Prestige line RTW shoes â€" but I have never seen one as nicely done as on a hand-sewn shoe. Again, perhaps it would be possible to devise a machine that could do the job as well as can be done by hand; but I know of no such machine in existance or in contemplation. There are other arguments for the superiority of handmade shoes to machine-made ones â€" handmade shoes are lighter and springier than machine-made shoes, handmade shoes mold to the foot better than machine-made shoes, that the slight imperfections inherent in a handmade product are idiosyncratically beautiful, etc. â€" and I think that there is something to those arguments, particularly in light of my experience with Vass shoes. However, consider this: producing handmade shoes is so difficult and so labor-intensive (and the profit margins so low compared to machine-made shoes) that it doesnâ€™t make sense for a producer to do it that way unless he is committed to making the an extremely high-quality product. Perhaps it is possible to make a product of similar quality using machines. The reality is that that just doesnâ€™t happen.

A couple of other notes about Vassâ€™s production methods: they channel their leather soled shoes, but they do it in a manner different from English makers. English makers tend to cut the flap for the channel at a relatively shallow angle, starting very close to the sole edge. When the soles are finished, one is frequently hard-pressed to see the incisions for the channel flap. Vass cuts the flap further back from the edge of the sole and at a steeper angle. The incision is readily apparent on the finished soles. The advantage to the English method is that the flap incisions are harder to see. The advantage to the Vass method is that the flaps are less likely to peel back with wear. Secondly, Vass uses a full insole cover where most English (and other) makers use only a half-length one. There are those who prefer the finished look that the full liner gives. I would prefer to see the insole, particularly on a handmade shoe like Vass: the dimples in the insole that are a tell-tale sign of a carved-feather sole would be visible then. I suspect Iâ€™m in the minority, however.

*The Budapester*

Any thorough discussion of Vass is impossible without mention of the Budapester. "Budapester" is both a generic term for a full brogue, either a blucher or a balmoral, and for a particular kind of full brogue: a full brogue blucher on a round-toe last with high walls upturned at the toe.

This is Vassâ€™s canonical shoe. Indeed, it is Budapestâ€™s canonical shoe. Supposedly, the high, upturned toe derives from the shape of 19th Century Hungarian army boots, which were extremely roomy in the toe to allow soldiers to stuff them with straw and thus to help ward off frostbite. This strikes me as being a bit too much of a just-so story to be accurate; but regardless, this last shape has been associated with Budapest-made shoes for well over a century.

This shoe inspires strong emotions. Very few people who care at all about shoes have no opinion about it. The shoe, particularly as Vass executes it, is distinctive and unique, and not just because of the upturned toe of the last itâ€™s made on. The original Vass design had the elongated heel counters that intersected with the edge of the quarters, forming what Vass describes in his book as a echo of the peak of the wing cap. I have never seen this configuration in any shoe except the Vass Budapester, and I think that it is very attractive. Unfortunately, within the past two years or so, Vass has discontinued the elongated counter, perhaps to make the shoe more commercially acceptable. Far be it from me to second-guess those who actually sell shoes for a living, but I canâ€™t help but think that something important has been lost due to this design change. In any event, I still think that the shoe is brilliant because its elements are in harmony â€" the upturned toe of the Budapest last matches the peak of the wingcap, the bulky nature of the last pairs well with the relatively casual nature of the design, etc. â€" and because it is distinctive without being a caricature. In pictures, everyone notices upturned toe of the last; but on the foot, itâ€™s not nearly so apparent. Whatâ€™s more, it is endlessly adaptable. It looks as good dressed down in Scotch grain calf and a reverse welt as it does dressed up with standard welting and smooth calfskin. Itâ€™s appropriate for wear with odd trousers, chinos, and jeans: a chameleon of distinction and elegance.

Other companies make Budapesters, of course, and it might be instructive to compare another makerâ€™s Version with Vassâ€™s. Heinrich Dinkelacker is a distinguished German company, although I believe that their shoes are now made in Hungary. Here is a Dinkelacker Budapester:

https://img53.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buda43310516bordeauxanilou3dg.jpg

There is no doubt that this shoe is a superlatively-made product. My understanding is that it is a handmade product and that Dinkelacker uses the same basic process that Vass does. The braided welt stitching, and, indeed, everything about the shoe, points to the fact that highly-skilled artisans produced this shoe. And yet, I donâ€™t think that it succeeds nearly as well as the Vass version. There are too many unusual design jumbled together elements in this shoe for it to work. the three-eyelet V-shaped quarters, typically seen on sleek plain-toe bluchers like the John Lobb Paris Perrier, are a jarring presence on a decidedly unsleek full brogue reverse-welted blucher, particularly when the eyelets are metal-lined. The braided welting, while beautifully done, conspires to make an already-bulky shoe look huge. The toe medallion, in spilling over the sides of the wing-cap, creates the impression that the shoe is spreading out to consume all available space. This shoe is not a Vass-like chameleon: itâ€™s a one-dimensional shoe that looks like a home protection device.

*The Lasts*

Vass uses a significant number of lasts; however, I donâ€™t have experience with all of them, and Iâ€™m not going to attempt to comment on those that I am not familiar with. All of the lasts that I have seen share two characteristics: they are typically very flat over the ball and toes of the feet, and they all have lots of arch support.


*Budapest* â€" Iâ€™ve already talked this last to death while discussing the Budapester, but itâ€™s useful to note that itâ€™s a good choice for other designs, too. Among my favorites is what Vass calls the Norweger:

https://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=norwegerbudapest5ke.jpg

This is nothing more than Vassâ€™s take on the Chasse: a split-toe apron-front shoe with integrated side panels and quarters. Vass brings the apron out to the very edge of the shoe, and the high walls and flat toe area of the Budapest last show off this design to its best effect. Budapest also works well with plain-toe bluchers. Itâ€™s not as successful, however, with cap-toes. The toe cap accentuates the upturn of the toe, which makes the shoe a bit clownish. As with all Vass lasts, Budapest is wide, and it has lots of room over the instep.
*Banana* â€" Unfortunately, I donâ€™t have any pretty pictures of shoes on Banana. Vass lasts tend to be banana-shaped, which means that the inside of the last is fairly straight but that the outside has a pronounced, sweeping curve. As the name would suggest, Banana is expecially banana-shaped. Otherwise, though, itâ€™s not nearly as distinctive as Budapest. It still has the high walls characteristic of all Vass lasts, but it doesnâ€™t have the upturned toe. Itâ€™s a wide and somewhat ungainly last suited for such things as shell cordovan full brogues.
*P2* â€" This is probably the best all-purpose last in the Vass stable. Itâ€™s a round-toe last derived from the Peter (I think), with the standard high walls and banana shape. But whereas some of the older Vass lasts are, well, a bit brutish, the P2 is much more appropriate for city-ish shoes. Itâ€™s probably the most English-looking last that Vass makes, and itâ€™s one of the three (along with U and F) that Vass will put a beveled waist on. Here are a couple of examples:

https://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wholecutmedalionp2last2mx.png

https://img61.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theresianerp26bi.jpg

Despite the first example shown, I think that P2 works best with a cap toe, which tends to make the toe look a bit less blunt. Earlier, I said that I thought that this was the most English-looking of Vassâ€™s lasts. That is true. However, it is a mistake to think that if you purchase shoes on P2, you will get English-looking shoes. Itâ€™s sort of like good New York-style pizza when compared to Neapolitan pizza. Both are excellent, and the one may be recognizable as being related to the other, but each is its own species. The shape of P2 is less distinctively Central European than Vassâ€™s other lasts, but it still is Central European; and shoes made on it reflect that fact.

I wore a pair of P2 shoes to a fitting with George Glasgow from GJ Cleverley. As bespoke shoemakers are wont to do, he picked up and examined my shoes. His only comment was, "Well, theyâ€™re a bit wide, arenâ€™t they?" In my mind, that typifies a major difference between what the English and Vass are trying to do. The English, particularly the English bespoke makers, believe that a shoe should fit tightly. Vass believes that it should be roomy and comfortable. 
*U* â€" U last was originally developed by Vass for the line of RTW shoes that they make for sale in Japan for Roberto Ugolini, a Florentine bespoke maker. Ugoliniâ€™s typical toe shape is an Italian chisel: narrow, square toe with an extremely prominent, very cut chisel. Vassâ€™s U last (get it? U for Ugolini. Mr. Vass is one clever dude!) is a very good approximation of that look, and shoes made on it are probably the most stunning in the Vass line-up.

https://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ulastchukka3ft.jpg

U last has the reputation of being narrow. It is, at least in comparison to other Vass lasts. However, I donâ€™t think that itâ€™s particularly narrow in absolute terms. Itâ€™s probably a full American D width. The problem with U, at least for me, is that itâ€™s elongated so that the toes donâ€™t get scrunched into the narrow toe box. This causes the shoe to break at the toenail of my little toe, which is uncomfortable. Others may not have this problem, and if they donâ€™t, theyâ€™re in luck: U last can make some absolutely stunning shoes.
*F* â€" Iâ€™ve saved the best for last. F last is my favorite Vass last by a significant margin. I think that itâ€™s the perfect combination of style and comfort, and it will be the last that I have all of my special orders made on in the future (except for a couple of ideas I have for Budapest). F was another last developed for the Ugolini RTW shoes. This one has a round toe. Itâ€™s every bit as sleek as U, but it doesnâ€™t have the elongation and the toe break problem (at least for me).








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As with U, F last fits a bit narrowly when compared to other Vass lasts, but it is not narrow in absolute terms. If you donâ€™t have wide feet, this is about as good as it gets from Vass.

*Final Thoughts*

Vass isnâ€™t perfect. There are certain small aspects of their production that I wish were better (the way that they do brass nails at the toe of the sole, for examples â€" theyâ€™re too far from the sole edge and too few in number to be effective). I wish that they were more flexible in their special order program (although, it must be said, they are very flexible, particularly in comparison with most non-Italian firms). I wish that they hadnâ€™t changed the design of the Budapest. Still, they produce some of the finest RTW shoes available today at any price. Theyâ€™re wonderful shoes. Do yourself a favor and try a pair. Or two. Or ten.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Most interesting and valuable - many, many thanks for all the trouble you've taken. Vass's Budapester brogue is on my list of "must-get" shoes. I wish I could find a shop in Paris that stocks them.


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## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

Great as always, John. Thank you very much!!!


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## briiian13 (Oct 24, 2005)

Like I said before, 
Vass' Budapest Red Cognac or the Orange Pebble Grain is my favorite and most characterized and beautiful shoes by Vass or anyone in my opinion.

Another bookmark, this one maybe I'll print out and leave in the bathroom next to the toilet.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

What you say about the elongated counter is interesting. There is an echo of this in the traditional Veldtschoen design, e.g., by Alfred Sargent

https://imageshack.us

and Crocket & Jones:

https://imageshack.us

Combining it with a wing tip is (was) a nice idea


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## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

I have found a German website that sells Vass shoes. But I am little confused about the Lasts names. I am interested in the second pair from the left in the upper row. The Last is called "New Peter". Which one of the Lasts you described would that be?


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

*BRAVO!*

More, please.​
*https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks **​


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Thank you, JC, for this wonderful post. Here are a few links that might be appropriate to accompany it.

The Vass website:

https://www.vass-shoes.com/

The Vass book: _Handmade Shoes for Men _ at Amazon.com:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002NKDUW/

The Satorialist's interview with Gabor Halmos:

https://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/2005/11/coffee-with-gabor-halmos-of-vass-shoes.html

An online feature on Budapest shoes:


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## tbabes (Feb 28, 2006)

Fascinating post -- thank you!

*Where (in the U.S.) can I purchase Vass shoes? Where can I purchase Vass shoes online?*

Brian


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tbabes_
> 
> Fascinating post -- thank you!
> 
> ...


An exploration of this question from earlier this month:


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## WeTommyD (Oct 5, 2005)

Jcusey,

This was probably one of the best posts I have ever read on AskAndy! Because of your explanation on the production of handmade shoes, I can appreciate the shoes I own, even though they are not handmade to the standards of Vass. I have some further reading and may stop by B&N to see if they have Handmade Shoes For Men by Laszlo Vass and Magda Moldar. I love the boot on the F last. It is a wonderful thing. 

Thank you


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

Jcusey, wonderful post as always!

RichardS: Have you contacted the German shop that stocks Vass shoes? If I'm reading what's there correctly, the prices seem far lower than those cited in another thread for Vass shoes from Bergdorf Goodman and Louis Boston. Do you know whether they ship to North America?

Vancouver


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## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

> quote:RichardS: Have you contacted the German shop that stocks Vass shoes? If I'm reading what's there correctly, the prices seem far lower than those cited in another thread for Vass shoes from Bergdorf Goodman and Louis Boston. Do you know whether they ship to North America?


Yes, Roger I have sent them an Email today. They promptly replied and promised to send me a catalogue. If I were you IÂ´d just write them an Email too. 
Apropos prices: According to an online article about Budapest Vass shoes cost about EUR 350,-- (so less than 400 USD) in their Budapest shop!


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Jcusey = TheShoeGod!



Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style
-Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy, But not expressed fancy; rich, not gaudy; For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

Jcusey, thanks again!

It's just a pity that Vass is sooo hard to find in USA...

-Ex falso quodlibet-


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## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

The world is really small. The manager of the German Vass store just called me and told me that an American customer has just ordered a couple of pairs.

Roger, of course I have asked him if they would also deliver to Canada and he affirmed.

...if it wasn`t you who had just ordered the shoes.[?]


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## aportnoy (Sep 12, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by RichardS_
> 
> The world is really small. The manager of the German Vass store just called me and told me that an American customer has just ordered a couple of pairs.
> 
> ...if it wasn`t you who had just ordered the shoes.[?]


Guilty.[8D]

I went for these two pair:

London 3 Eyelet U Last in Boxcalf Bordeaux 
Oxford Medaillion, U Last, antic cognac

Thanks RichardS!!


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Thanks to Gabor Halmos, who got me to try on a pair of Vass shoes at the first Collection of Sartorial Excellence. I wouldn't take them off!

Great shoes and probably the two best shoes in my wardrobe.

I have the London B-2 Last in burgundy. Sort of like this one, but not pebble grain and a different sole:


And the one I got this year is sort of like this (Gabor/JCusey - know which one??)



Andy


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## baron (Jan 25, 2005)

When I contacted Sky Valet about Vass, they said they weren't selling them via mail order any more due to repeated fit issues. If I were to buy a pair online, how would I anticipate the fit? How do they fit compared to the C&J 337 last?


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by aportnoy_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny. I found them and contacted them Sunday night, and they promptly sent me a catalog, which I browsed through Monday night, sent an email about prices and got responses last night. Then I saw this great thread today. I found another place as well that sold a limited set of models for 429 Euros. I haven't bought anything yet, but I am very tempted to.

The only last I have tried is the U-last, because that was the only last Gabor had in my size at the Sartorial Excellence event in NYC last month.

Can anyone tell me how the Budapest last fits compared to the U-last? I have a quite high instep, and Lobb's 8000 last as well as Vass' U-last fit me very well. No Edward Green last whatsoever fits.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Just a quick comment on Vass' *R-last*, which I find particularly appealing (albeit I favour rather classic British-styled shoes). It is a rather English-looking style with a rounded toe, straightforward id appearance, with a high level of comfort for those seeking a medium width in a shoe.


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## Benedict Spinola (Jun 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jcusey_
> Vass isnâ€™t perfect. There are certain small aspects of their production that I wish were better (the way that they do brass nails at the toe of the sole, for examples â€" theyâ€™re too far from the sole edge and too few in number to be effective).


Jcusey,

Eva Vass tells me that these aren't to be relied upon for protection against leather wear - she recommends a metal toe piece, which Vass are happy to add at nominal cost.

Best wishes,

Spinola

P.S. Great post.


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## tennispro (Mar 20, 2006)

Can you post the site and or email address please. This sounds very interesting.
Thanks



> quote:_Originally posted by RichardS_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ONLY THE BEST, LEAVE THE REST


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Benedict Spinola_
> 
> Eva Vass tells me that these aren't to be relied upon for protection against leather wear - she recommends a metal toe piece, which Vass are happy to add at nominal cost.


It seems to me that the nails should at least be decorative if they aren't going to be functional. Unfortunately, they're neither.

I like the steel toes, and I also like the hard rubber toes that Vass will also use from time to time. They're only a bit less functional and a heck of a lot less noisy.



> quote:
> P.S. Great post.


Thank you, and thanks to everyone else for their kind words.


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## baron (Jan 25, 2005)

Does anyone have any thoughts on Vass sizing? The U last, specifically - can anyone compare it to similar lasts from Green or C&J?


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Terrific post, Mr. Cusey.


------------------------
Fortuna elegantes adiuvit.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by MarkusH_
> 
> Can anyone tell me how the Budapest last fits compared to the U-last? I have a quite high instep, and Lobb's 8000 last as well as Vass' U-last fit me very well. No Edward Green last whatsoever fits.


Budapest will be wider than U. All Vass lasts have a high instep.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by baron_
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on Vass sizing? The U last, specifically - can anyone compare it to similar lasts from Green or C&J?


Generally speaking, the Vass people recommend that you size up half a size with U. I'm a 10D in most American shoes, 9.5D in all EG lasts that I've tried, 43.5 in all Vass lasts except U, and 44 in U.


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## baron (Jan 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jcusey_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks


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## FMINUS (Jan 9, 2006)

Where is the place in Germany? Im down for a couple of pairs!


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## briiian13 (Oct 24, 2005)

me too


me likey budapest red cognac


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Let me get this straight, Mr. Cusey. You seem to be exhibiting some Frankly Nasty Bombasticity. Are you trying to claim that Vass Shoes are not ideal for Transylvanian peasantry?

*https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks **​


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Alexander Kabbaz_
> 
> Let me get this straight, Mr. Cusey. You seem to be exhibiting some Frankly Nasty Bombasticity. Are you trying to claim that Vass Shoes are not ideal for Transylvanian peasantry?


Meow!


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by jcusey_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks! Like the British, I don't equate surplus width with comfort. On the other hand, I like the looks of the Budapester and the Norweger on the Budapest last. Quite a dilemma.


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

Can someone pls post the contact information of this German store?

Thanks,

Panzer


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MarkusH_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ummm...you aren't "the British?"[:0]


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

JCusey,

Sounds like you need to make a pilgrimage to Vass in Budapest. I think the Malev flight leaves JFK at 6PM! But thanks a million for all your work.

Karl


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## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

> quote:Can someone pls post the contact information of this German store?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Panzer


Here:

Just click:

"KONTAKT"


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

thought i revive this for good reason. also a good read for those intereseted in vass.


is the P2 a bit wider than the U so should you size down half for P2?

i wear 44 in U so should i got 43.5? or stick with 44?
thanks


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## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

> is the P2 a bit wider than the U so should you size down half for P2?


As far as I know it is wider. For further information you may contact Mr. Trausch from "Budapester Schuhe".


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Brian13 said:


> is the P2 a bit wider than the U so should you size down half for P2?
> 
> i wear 44 in U so should i got 43.5? or stick with 44?
> thanks


P2 is indeed wider than U. The U last shoes that I have are 44s, while the P2 last shoes are 43.5. However, if I had it to do over again, I would probably get the U last shoes in 43.5 also. U last isn't super-narrow, and neither are my feet, so the half size up is probably not necessary for me. Your mileage may vary.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

thank you gentlemen


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

jcusey said:


> P2 is indeed wider than U. The U last shoes that I have are 44s, while the P2 last shoes are 43.5. However, if I had it to do over again, I would probably get the U last shoes in 43.5 also. U last isn't super-narrow, and neither are my feet, so the half size up is probably not necessary for me. Your mileage may vary.


 I had to go up a full size in U. But then again, you can't water-ski without boards whereas I can.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

that's exactly what i did in the U last. i went up to a size 11 44 to fit me.

but i thought you only wore shirts Mr Kabbaz?


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Brian13 said:


> that's exactly what i did in the U last. i went up to a size 11 44 to fit me.
> 
> but i thought you only wore shirts Mr Kabbaz?


 Need shoes for church on Sundays or wife sends me to couch. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

just won a P2 43.5 semibrogue from sartoriale on ebay . i'll let you know how they turn out. 600 dollars, oh well, hopefully that is somewhere within the ballpark of going rate on P2:icon_smile:


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

jcusey,
one more thing, would you know anything about these prototype lasts?

are these just another last with a small adjustment, or a completely newly fabricated last? 



also wondering if these would fit similar to the P2 thanks


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Brian13 said:


> jcusey,
> one more thing, would you know anything about these prototype lasts?
> 
> are these just another last with a small adjustment, or a completely newly fabricated last?
> ...


Sorry, can't help you. The pictures make it look like a derivative of P2, with the same high walls (except at the toe, which looks to have been shaved down or something) and distinctive banana shape, but there's no way I could tell for sure. Your best bet would be to contact Gabor.


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

Teacher said:


> Ummm...you aren't "the British?"[:0]


No, I just live there.

Btw, I have bought a Vass Budapester and a Vass Norweger since my last post on this thread a long time. They are very nice shoes, very comfortable and the "roominess" really does not bother me. However, the finish is not quite up to the standard of JL.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

The U Last is incredible but the standard Budapest shoe honestly looks like a clown shoe to me.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Artisan Fan said:


> The U Last is incredible but the standard Budapest shoe honestly looks like a clown shoe to me.


I love and wear both the Budapester and the U-Last.


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

Artisan Fan said:


> The U Last is incredible...


Can't stand the U-Last. Honestly looks like a peacock shoe to me.


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## kolecho (Nov 15, 2004)

The Budapester design comes in various lasts - Budapester last, 3636 and New Peter. Mine are in 3636. It is not as massive as Budapester last and very comfortable. They go well with casuals like chinos, jeans, moleskin, cords etc. I thought I would never get a pair until I saw them in the flesh. The handmade aura shines through and makes them irresistable. These and EG Dover are must have derby shoes for people like us.


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## Isak (Oct 26, 2003)

iammatt said:


> I love and wear both the Budapester and the U-Last.


+ 1/2. It's such a cliche, but the Budapester looks a lot better in person. I normally don't wear them with suits but with just about everything else.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

jcusey said:


> I like the steel toes, and I also like the hard rubber toes that Vass will also use from time to time. They're only a bit less functional and a heck of a lot less noisy.


Just wondering if anyone has seen/used/or has an opinion on the hard rubber toe piece.

As I understand it, a metal toe piece is difficult to insert into a single sole but the rubber will work fine. It seems a practical choice to protect the underside of the toe from early scuffing/decomposition, with minimal impact on the shoe's aesthetic... What do you think?


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

fritzl said:


> Can't stand the U-Last. Honestly looks like a peacock shoe to me.


I tried one at the trunk show that fit perfectly-- except for the extra three inches at the toe. Looked like a cockroach-killer. Perhaps some day I'll get them to base a bespoke model on the first 2/3 of it.


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

Isak said:


> + 1/2. It's such a cliche, but the Budapester looks a lot better in person. I normally don't wear them with suits but with just about everything else.


The Budapester on the Budapest last works great with the kind of suit that can stand up to a pair of Allen Edmonds.


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

*Brilliant!*

John, I think this is the best post on shoes I have read! Your knowledge and ability to put things clearly and in an interesting manner is a joy.

I didn't know much about Vass shoes, but now I feel I know a whole lot more. I don't much like the Budapester - people criticise Church's for bulbous toes and clunkiness - well that shoe takes the biscuit on those fronts! However I adore the other lasts and models you display and having looked into their prices I must admit they are very good value for money.

I wish I had more than one life time to collect a huge number of shoes from every great maker and Vass would be one of them! As it is I am struggling to find room for my Church's, EGs, G&Gs and C&Js!

Thank you once again John, a pleasure to read.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Rossini said:


> Just wondering if anyone has seen/used/or has an opinion on the hard rubber toe piece.
> 
> As I understand it, a metal toe piece is difficult to insert into a single sole but the rubber will work fine. It seems a practical choice to protect the underside of the toe from early scuffing/decomposition, with minimal impact on the shoe's aesthetic... What do you think?


The rubber toe pieces that I was referring to aren't taps. They're hard rubber plates that are flush to the sole and that are installed by cutting down the tip of the sole. I would imagine that they're somewhat easier to install than steel because rubber is easier to cut to size and because they're attached with brass slugging rather than with screws. But I can't believe that they would require much less work or that they would be more appropriate on single-sole shoes than steel.

The difficulty with toe plates on single-sole shoes is that if the person installing the plate isn't careful, he might cut the welt-sole lockstitch while cutting away the sole. The risk is there with both steel and rubber plates.


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

Leather man said:


> I don't much like the Budapester - people criticise Church's for bulbous toes and clunkiness - well that shoe takes the biscuit on those fronts!


Leather man, don't judge the Budapester before you have seen it on your own feet. It is truly a great style.

As to the sleeker styles, anyone within travel distance of Northampton has access to options that provide better value for money, but they are certainly a good value at retail as you would expect from an emerging markets producer.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Informative*

Thank you for the wonderfully informative post. I have e-mailed for a catalog.
Not sure if I can make the leap from trim English to massive Budapesters.

I have some custom made walking shoes that are clunky functional and in which one can walk comfortably for hours. But they arn't good looking. Perhaps, as several posters suggest, Budapesters would look good on one's feet. It will, of course, depend on the fit, as this is a problem for me. Wir wirden sehen.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

I agree with Mr Cusey that the F is wonderfully elegant, and the finishing is particularly special when you request 'Italian polish': mirror-like, but the grain of the leather is still visible. I feel like I have purchased a work of art, not just a shoe: it's no coincidence that Laszlo Vass is a renowned connoisseur of central European modern art.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Indeed, a very handsome example of the shoemakers art! Now, to complete your experience of the present example of such art, put them on and wear them...for many years and may it be in good health! :thumbs-up:


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## comrade (May 26, 2005)

Pliny said:


> I agree with Mr Cusey that the F is wonderfully elegant, and the finishing is particularly special when you request 'Italian polish': mirror-like, but the grain of the leather is still visible. I feel like I have purchased a work of art, not just a shoe: it's no coincidence that Laszlo Vass is a renowned connoisseur of central European modern art.


Beautiful shoe. Sadly, they couln't fit me at Vass.


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