# Suits without a tie



## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

In the world of business casual, the suit without a tie look is gaining increasing prevalence. I have thought, or been conditioned to think, that it always looks a bit lazy and has a touch of the car salesman/gangsternightclub bouncer about it. Yet, on occasion, people do pull it off and it can sometimes look ok or even (dare I say it) good. 

My personal preference would always be to wear a tie. My suspicion, reading this forum, is that there is a US-bias that would fall very firmly against a suit without a tie partly because sportsjackets are so common in the states as an alternative. In Europe, however, a suit without a tie is more common and seen as slightly more formal IMO than a sportsjacket + trousers.

Interested to see what your views are. Also, if you do think its possible to carry off a suit without a tie, do you think it matters what kind of suit - i.e. does it need to be more deconstructed, no pin-stripes, etc, etc....


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Suit sans tie is odd to me. I would rather go with a blazer/sportcoat and odd trousers.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Suit without a tie = looks like the first move in a striptease. Then off comes the jacket, out comes the shirt, etc., etc.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Ok, I agree, but all I'm saying is it seems to be de rigeur for smart business casual in Europe so there must be something to it, or some rules to pull it off. And perhaps we on this forum haven't discovered them yet. Hmmm...


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## Foutre le feu (Oct 9, 2007)

I can see it being problematic in a professional context, but if you're wearing a suit to show off some flair, jil sander, prada, and dior homme have frequently gone sans tie in their collections.

here's an example. 
https://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/fashionshows/S2008MEN/JSMEN/RUNWAY/00080m.jpg


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I wear a suit without a tie quite often, especially my black suit. I probably woudn't do this with a patterned suit (not sure why), but I like it with solid black, navy, and charcoal. It's an easy way to look nice on Saturday night. It seems to be a popular look these days as I see quite a few folks doing it. In the end it's just a matter of personal taste and style. 

Cruiser


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

yeah, interesting pic. In reality it tends to be boss, M&S, etc, etc. with an open-neck shirt (open top button)


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Suit sans tie = 'I'm a dinner jacket (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad)


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## AlmostSmart (Jul 12, 2007)

Rossini said:


> yeah, interesting pic. In reality it tends to be boss, M&S, etc, etc. with an open-neck shirt (open top button)


I would say, in my opinion, that if you are wearing a shirt sans tie, that the top button should be open.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

To my eye, a suit without a tie comes off looking more "forced" casual than business casual...almost like the wearer is saying through their actions, hey, look at me...I'm cool!" On the other hand, a blazer or sportcoat without a tie, even worn with an open neck, knit polo shirt, looks fine.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

AlmostSmart said:


> I would say, in my opinion, that if you are wearing a shirt sans tie, that the top button should be open.


Unless you are Tony Shalhoub (Monk).

Cruiser


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*suit sans tie?*

Wearing a suit without a tie is a serious dressing error, usually committed by the young who do not realize the error of their ways. The tie lends color and elegance to those suited. Because Brad Pitt follows this dressing pattern doesn't make it right. This is what an odd jacket and trousers are for. A suit tieless seriously detracts from your dress, and makes the viewer think, "Poor fellow probably doesn't own a sportcoat."


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

dfloyd said:


> A suit tieless seriously detracts from your dress, and makes the viewer think, "Poor fellow probably doesn't own a sportcoat."


+1 Fashion magazines notwithstanding, I've never seen it look good when done. Usually it looks like the guy forgot/stained his tie.


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## Xenon (Oct 3, 2007)

I think pulling of a suit/shirt without tie successfully depends on the fit of the suit and shirt. A very slim fitting suit over a very slim fitting shirt can look very nice. This is my standard dress wear during the hot summers. In my opinion it looks even nicer with a pin strip suit. Although some here may dislike the look--- I can't believe how many compliments i get from both women and men.

In all cases the shirt must be freshly ironed and your hair short/trim. Any unneccessary looseness in shirt and suit and untidy shoes will make the look far worse than if a tie had been present


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> To my eye, a suit without a tie comes off looking more "forced" casual than business casual.


Well put.

Anyone for the defence?


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## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

AlmostSmart said:


> I would say, in my opinion, that if you are wearing a shirt sans tie, that the top button should be open.


I agree.


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## Daywalker (Aug 21, 2005)

I'm with Cruiser on this topic. If it looks good (and it really can), do it.
There are "rules" for doing this, however.

1. Keep your coat buttoned when standing.
2. Keep your shirt collar inside your coat collar.
3. NEVER unbutton more than 2 buttons (preferably starting at the top).
4. No undershirts allowed.
5. No French cuffs.
6. No braces.
7. No embroidered or ribbon watchbands or D-ring belts.
8. Best executed with fine, dark, solid-color wool fabrics (black being especially nice at night); no tweeds or flannels, please.
9. Be comfortable with it, or don't do it. 

The No. 1 cause of looking "forced" is the wearer's self-consciousness. That is, it takes a particular personality to do it well.

By the way, don't judge this practice by the guy at the bar after work that just decided to remove his tie. He is not a serious practitioner; he is just a guy that decided to remove his tie.


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## Maggio (Apr 4, 2005)

Suit sans tie seems to work quite well for George Clooney.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Daywalker said:


> There are "rules" for doing this, however.
> 
> 5. No French cuffs.


I like your rules except for No. 5! :-(


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

Daywalker said:


> I'm with Cruiser on this topic. If it looks good (and it really can), do it.
> There are "rules" for doing this, however.
> 
> 1. Keep your coat buttoned when standing.
> ...


I mostly agree with these rules. Do to a recent change in paymasters, I have had to forgo the tie, but I still wear sutis or sport coats. I am trying to raise the bar without rocking the boat to the point where I am cast out of the boat. Sometimes sartorial sacrifices must be made in the interests of paying for diapers, formula, daycare, early learning programs, etc.

P.S. The mostly comes from the fact that I do sometimes wear my French cuff shirts sans tie. For me, it is a very carefully considered decision involving which shirt, which suit, and which cuff links.


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## Daywalker (Aug 21, 2005)

Maggio said:


> Suit sans tie seems to work quite well for George Clooney.


Clooney is a ringer. He'd look good in a suit made from a potato sack!


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

*suit without tie*

I say again what I've said before meny times - to me open-necked shirts look bad with sports jackets and blazers, and look a thousand times worse with a suit. The look is sloppy, unfinished and incongruous, and the fact that celebrities adopt it and that it is popular does not mean that it is something to be adopted. Rossini, please don't go down this road!


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Further to my earlier remark, a man shouldn't look as if he's half undressed. That is a lady's privilege, and ladies do it so much better than us. Tielessness, along with short jackets, darted shirts with tails hanging out, low rise trousers, etc. is feminine - leave all that for the ladies - each to his/her own.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

dfloyd said:


> Wearing a suit without a tie is a serious dressing error, usually committed by the young who do not realize the error of their ways. The tie lends color and elegance to those suited. Because Brad Pitt follows this dressing pattern doesn't make it right. This is what an odd jacket and trousers are for. A suit tieless seriously detracts from your dress, and makes the viewer think, "Poor fellow probably doesn't own a sportcoat."


I couldn't disagree with this more. If you are a trad then I understand the comment but your quote stands alone and does not speak to the mass of people that like the look and get complemented usually by the opposite sex which after all, even if married is what we all like and hope to be noticed by. cruiser said it right and I have said it before on this very topic. If you can pull it off then by all means go for it. Alot of guys can't because they don't have the style or the ability to carry themselves with the confidence it takes.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

williamson said:


> I say again what I've said before meny times - to me open-necked shirts look bad with sports jackets and blazers, and look a thousand times worse with a suit. The look is sloppy, unfinished and incongruous, and the fact that celebrities adopt it and that it is popular does not mean that it is something to be adopted. Rossini, please don't go down this road!


Well I agree with you on the suits, maybe sports jackets and blazers we'll have to disagree. But suits-wise, I really am trying to resist but its hard sometimes to be the only one in the room with a tie without feeling inappropriate.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Tonyp, I don't dress to get compliments from the opposite sex, but to gain the respect of other men - which earns me women's estime. But that's just me.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

dfloyd said:


> Wearing a suit without a tie is a serious dressing error, usually committed by the young who do not realize the error of their ways.


I was at a party last week and no one had on a tie, but nearly every man there had on either a suit or sport coat. And these were not young people. With the exception of the very few who are extremely conscious of fashion, what *typical* man wants to be wearing a frickin tie when he is out having a good time at a party on Saturday night? I know, most of the folks here aren't typical nor do you want to be. That's OK.

Truth is most of the guys only wore the suit or sport coat because of the women wanting to dress up. The average guy just doesn't consider a Saturday night out to be a fashion show. I know I don't. But I can assure you that if a tie had been the requested order of dress at that party I would have had one on out of respect for the host's wishes.

I think some may be confusing the issue of wearing a suit without tie in a professional or business setting vs. a more casual social setting. Like a prior poster said, many feel out of place in a tie when no one else is wearing one. I know I would. All I know is that when I showed up the first thing my date did was compliment me on how good she thought I looked in my tieless suit. That works for me regardless of what the rule is. :icon_smile:



> I don't dress to get compliments from the opposite sex, but to gain the respect of other men


Myself, I like the compliments from the opposite sex; but that could be due to the fact that in the world in which I live it takes a heck of a lot more than the clothes one is wearing to get the respect of other men. That is usually way down the average man's list when it comes to respect. And like it or not most of us live in a world populated by average men.

Cruiser


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Rich said:


> Tonyp, I don't dress to get compliments from the opposite sex, but to gain the respect of other men - which earns me women's estime. But that's just me.


Rich:

I am sure you are a well dressed man and probably are considered well dressed by your peers but surely you already have the respect of other men who know you. I am only trying to point out that women do find men with or without a tie to be attractively dressed if they put it together the right way.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Cruiser, this is exactly the point. You've noticed it where you are in a more casual setting. Where I am it happens in a business smart casual setting. Both of us feel uncomfortable wearing the only tie in the room, yet I agree with other posters that without one it can all look a bit untidy and messy. Which is why I am interested in any views as how to pull it off in the best way possibly if you feel you have to do it. It has been suggested to me that it's ok with a fashion suit - armani, etc - but less easy with the kind of suits more often discussed on this forum which I tend to gravitate towards - Zegna MTM, Kilgour, Brioni etc..


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

This, taken from a BBC TV Programme, "The Restaurant" is the kind of thing I'm up against every day:


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*Tieless and sleepless in Seattle*

First of all, I'm not against going tieless, I'm just oppossed to wearing a suit without a tie. The suit is designed to be worn with a tie and that rule should be adhered to. When I attend any casual function, I don't wear a tie. I wear a sport coat with a sport shirt or sweater or both when it is nippy out. I just feel that the suit should be reserved for more formal occassions and it looks out of place when you don't wear a tie. What is even worse is when you wear a dress shirt with a suit sans tie. I don't care who wears it, celebrity or just plain Bill, it gives the appearance of being not fully dressed. Manton puts it very clearly in "The Suit" when he proclaims that the only dress shirt which can be worn sans tie and unbuttoned is the OCBD.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

dfloyd said:


> First of all, I'm not against going tieless, I'm just oppossed to wearing a suit without a tie. The suit is designed to be worn with a tie and that rule should be adhered to. When I attend any casual function, I don't wear a tie. I wear a sport coat with a sport shirt or sweater or both when it is nippy out. I just feel that the suit should be reserved for more formal occassions and it looks out of place when you don't wear a tie. What is even worse is when you wear a dress shirt with a suit sans tie. I don't care who wears it, celebrity or just plain Bill, it gives the appearance of being not fully dressed. Manton puts it very clearly in "The Suit" when he proclaims that the only dress shirt which can be worn sans tie and unbuttoned is the OCBD.


Problem is that most folks haven't read "The Suit" and aren't aware of this rule about wearing a suit without a tie. A lot of men do it and a lot of people seem to like it. I suspect that out in the world, where most of us live, a "rule" doesn't carry much weight if no one knows about it. I guess what I'm saying is that if I'm at a party where a lot of guys are wearing suits or dress shirts with no tie and no one knows that they are violating a rule, what harm is done, unless of course the fashion police show up and start arresting people.

Perhaps if suits came with an instruction manual explaining how they are supposed to be worn, more folks would know. On second thought, even if my suits did have instruction manuals, the way I look at it is that I paid for them and they belong to me so I will wear them and enjoy them as I see fit.

Once you get past the utilitarian stage clothing should be fun, especially if you have shelled out more than is required to meet the basic need. How can it be fun if everyone is walking around with a rule book dictating exactly how the clothes must be worn. It would seem kind of boring to me. But that's just me.

Cruiser


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Rossini said:


> Well I agree with you on the suits, maybe sports jackets and blazers we'll have to disagree. But suits-wise, I really am trying to resist but its hard sometimes to be the only one in the room with a tie without feeling inappropriate.


I strongly agree with Rich, and also with the first part of dFloyd's posting.
Moreover, I'd much rather be the only man wearing a tie (and quite often find this to be the case) than the only man not wearing one.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> Problem is that most folks haven't read "The Suit" and aren't aware of this rule about wearing a suit without a tie. A lot of men do it and a lot of people seem to like it. I suspect that out in the world, where most of us live, a "rule" doesn't carry much weight if no one knows about it. I guess what I'm saying is that if I'm at a party where a lot of guys are wearing suits or dress shirts with no tie and no one knows that they are violating a rule, what harm is done, unless of course the fashion police show up and start arresting people.
> 
> Perhaps if suits came with an instruction manual explaining how they are supposed to be worn, more folks would know. On second thought, even if my suits did have instruction manuals, the way I look at it is that I paid for them and they belong to me so I will wear them and enjoy them as I see fit.
> 
> ...


Cruiser, what I don't understand is why you're such an apologist for what you wear and how you wear it. If you want affirmation for your "style", it may not be forthcoming. There are some folks here that have looked into what consitiutes traditional men's dress and believe that such style, with all its attendant "rules" provides a consistently good look. Within such rules there is plenty of latitude for individuation, but pitching them wholesale and deriding anyone that doesn't agree with you is just an attempt at setting yourself up as an arbiter of style-without any history to back you up.


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## pocketsquareguy (Oct 8, 2007)

I have now grown to like wearing a suit without a tie but find the look is more successful on me with a more fitted, trim cut dark suit and white shirt and cutaway collar. I have also found that the choice of belt and it's buckle become even more important since they have a greater focus. My regular cut suits seem to beg to have a tie...


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

As I have said in the previous threads on this topic and in this thread. If you put the outfit together correctly you will not only look good but the tie will go unnoticed. Of course, unless you are at an event where everyone but you is wearing a tie!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

yachtie said:


> Cruiser, what I don't understand is why you're such an apologist for what you wear and how you wear it. If you want affirmation for your "style", it may not be forthcoming.


I am not looking for affirmation of anything. If a person asks you to please not call them stupid, that isn't the same thing as them asking you to call them smart. I'm not asking for anyone to like or approve my manner of dress, but I am asking you to not trash it solely because it is different from yours. Can you see the difference? Most folks in my neck of the woods call that being polite.



> There are some folks here that have looked into what consitiutes traditional men's dress and believe that such style, with all its attendant "rules" provides a consistently good look.


And I think that's terrific, I really do. I like to hear about what you like and why because I might find something there that I like and want to adopt. After all, I still wear suits and ties, and I like to tie my own bow tie when I wear my dinner jacket. I'm very traditional and very conservative when I do have occasion dress like this. All my dress shirts are white and various shades of blue, but since coming here I have seen a couple of patterned shirt and tie combinations that I might try. I came here solely out of curiosity and a desire to pick up some information.



> but pitching them wholesale and deriding anyone that doesn't agree with you is just an attempt at setting yourself up as an arbiter of style-without any history to back you up


I defy you to find even once where I have derided anyone over the way they dress. In fact, this is just the opposite of what I have been saying. I think that everyone should develop his own style consistent with his own likes and dislikes, and then go out in the world and have fun without running down others who may do things a little different.

I have never advocated going to a funeral or wedding in cut offs and a tank top. That would not only be disrespectful but just plain old bad manners. Myself, I wear a charcoal suit with a subdued tie to the funeral and a brighter tie to the wedding.

Take this thread for example. The discussion was about whether it is OK to wear a suit without a tie. Although I often wear a suit without a tie, as do many many people around me, I never said that everyone should do that because I do it. I don't care whether you or the next guy wears a tie or not. That's a personal choice and it's none of my business. And if I think your tie looks nice, I will tell you so whether I have one on or not.

If you want to have "rules", that's fine, I don't care. But the fact is that even well dressed guys don't all agree on those rules no matter how much you might want them to. Just look at the discussions that go on here with other more esteemed members of this forum. And from the private mail I've been getting there are quite a few among you who like to dress nice but don't care for some of the rigidity that some here display in dictating to others what is right or wrong when usually it's just a matter of personal taste.

Hell, I like to dress nice; that's why I'm here. But that doesn't mean that I am going to get up on Saturday morning and put on a jacket with pocket square to run down to the grocery store. Nor am I likely to put on a suit and tie to go to a party or a club on Saturday night unless it is expected by the host. But I just might put on a suit without a tie. Or I might put on a pair of jeans with a dress shirt and blazer. It depends on my mood or perhaps what my lady is wearing.

My whole point is that you should wear what you want to wear and I should wear what I want to wear, and we should still be friends; or at least our choice in clothing should not be what comes between us. If we can't be friends let's let it be over something more important than that.

I really think some are missing the point of everything I've been trying to say. Maybe I'm just not saying it well, I don't know. If I'm not maybe I need to go get the money back that I paid for that second major I had in English in college. Of course it could be that that was so long ago I have forgotten everything. :icon_smile:

I'm really not trying to anger anyone.

Cruiser


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## fullgrain (Jan 5, 2007)

Rossini

There is no US bias. There is an AA bias, which is quite a different matter. :icon_smile: In any case, are you going to let a bunch of imperialist Yanks tell you how to dress?

Easiest way to pull it off, I think, if the suit itself is otherwise conservative, is with an interestingly colored or patterned shirt; this helps avoid the I-just got-off-work-and-took-off-my-tie look. Those ones you were referencing on the other post are on the right track, I think. If all the elements are well-chosen and the occasion appropriate, you'll look fine.


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## sachin0310 (Sep 21, 2007)

suits without a tie looks good but it gives more casual look can wear on weekends but other days suits with tie


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

fullgrain said:


> Rossini
> 
> There is no US bias. There is an AA bias, which is quite a different matter. :icon_smile: In any case, are you going to let a bunch of imperialist Yanks tell you how to dress?
> 
> Easiest way to pull it off, I think, if the suit itself is otherwise conservative, is with an interestingly colored or patterned shirt; this helps avoid the I-just got-off-work-and-took-off-my-tie look. Those ones you were referencing on the other post are on the right track, I think. If all the elements are well-chosen and the occasion appropriate, you'll look fine.


Good points all Fullgrain. I think you're right about the pattern as long (guess I'm stating the obvious) as it fits/relates to the suit on some level and doesn't look too wacky.


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## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

There is nothing more boring than the black suit, white shirt with open collar look, often accompanied by boat-like black shoes. Besides being proper, wearing a tie allows a man the opportunity for adding a little expression of varying color and pattern to the uniform look of a suit. I do often wear a sport jacket with open neck bd shirt or polo shirt for a casual weekend look, but I just don't think a suit looks right without a tie, except maybe in Hollywood, where the only four-in hand ties are worn with dinner jackets.


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## Daywalker (Aug 21, 2005)

rsmeyer said:


> There is nothing more boring than the black suit, white shirt with open collar look, often accompanied by boat-like black shoes. Besides being proper, wearing a tie allows a man the opportunity for adding a little expression of varying color and pattern to the uniform look of a suit. I do often wear a sport jacket with open neck bd shirt or polo shirt for a casual weekend look, but I just don't think a suit looks right without a tie, except maybe in Hollywood, where the only four-in hand ties are worn with dinner jackets.


Hold it. Not everybody wears "boat-like" black shoes with their tie-less suit but if it helps you cast the look in the worst light possible, then go ahead. Second, a tie is what MAKES the suit a uniform (uni = one, one form, uni-form, everybody wears a tie). How is your wearing a short-sleeve polo with your sportcoat any less wrong than going without a tie?


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## LondonFogey (May 18, 2006)

My view:

Sports jacket with no tie - looks fine and sometimes even better than sports jacket with tie. 

Lounge suit with no tie - ok if it's an informal cut suit in linen, moleskin, corduroy etc

Business type lounge suit in dark cloth, pinstripes etc worn with no tie - looks like you've been taken into police custody and had your tie and shoelaces taken away. 

Dinner jacket with no tie - Hollywood z-lister appearing in 'Heat' magazine who probably wore a four in hand black tie but took it off because his collar didn't fit.


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## vickysethi (Sep 21, 2007)

no tie then no suit.A complete suit is always with a tie other wise it looks like a casual wear


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

there is certainly nothing wrong with suit without tie - it is the occasion which dictates surely not a rule.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

Everyone I've ever seen wearing a suit sans tie has looked, to me, as if he is just coming in from an all-nighter.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

GBR said:


> there is certainly nothing wrong with suit without tie - it is the occasion which dictates surely not a rule.


Any occasion that dictates a suit must also dictate a tie.


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## Daywalker (Aug 21, 2005)

David V said:


> Any occasion that dictates a suit must also dictate a tie.


I took GBR's comment to mean that the occasion dictates whether a tie would be necessary. Aside from the usual events--work, funerals, weddings, etc.--wearing a suit is a matter of personal preference as to when and where.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

Daywalker said:


> I took GBR's comment to mean that the occasion dictates whether a tie would be necessary. Aside from the usual events--work, funerals, weddings, etc.--wearing a suit is a matter of personal preference as to when and where.


Well based on that concept why stop at the suit.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Daywalker said:


> wearing a suit is a matter of personal preference as to when and where.


I think this is the sticky wicket here. Some of us don't hesitate to wear a suit in a somewhat informal setting just as we might also wear a sport coat and slacks, and being a more informal setting we don't wear a tie with either. I also wear a more casual shoe when I do this.

On the other hand there are others who only wear a suit when the setting is of a level of formality to warrant a tie; therefore, they are always wearing a tie when they have a suit on and, conversely, never wear a suit without a tie because if a tie is not warranted they just don't wear a suit. I'm not different here. In such a setting I never wear a suit without a tie. I suspect that most of the others who say that they sometimes wear a suit without a tie are the same. They aren't saying that they go tieless to a business meeting.

So it isn't as much about whether to wear a tie with the suit as much as it is whether you should wear a suit in a less formal setting where a tie is not normally worn, such as going out to a club on Saturday night. Sounds like simply a personal preference to me that certainly should not cause friction. If you don't like the look, don't wear it; and if you like the look, go for it.

After all, would you rather I wear my jeans and blazer to the restaurant or my suit without a tie? Or is the window of acceptability so small that I do need a rule book. Just kidding. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I was going to compliment the thread on two mentions of black suits and no one rising to the bait. Still, much restraint was shown!

Has anyone been watching Cane? Jimmy Smits seems to do the tieless suit thing, with FC, in most every scene. He also does odd trousers with jacket, FC, sans tie. Pocket square every time I notice.

Personally, if I want a jacket but do not feel like a tie, I opt for the odd trousers with sportcoat and an OCBD.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> IAfter all, would you rather I wear my jeans and blazer to the restaurant or my suit without a tie? Or is the window of acceptability so small that I do need a rule book. Just kidding. :icon_smile:
> 
> Cruiser


Get the book..or Andy's CD!


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Wayfarer said:


> Has anyone been watching Cane? Jimmy Smits seems to do the tieless suit thing, with FC, in most every scene. He also does odd trousers with jacket, FC, sans tie. Pocket square every time I notice.


Hmmm... What would Denny Crane say?


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

GBR said:


> there is certainly nothing wrong with suit without tie - it is the occasion which dictates surely not a rule.


I wonder, like some others whether there is a slight difference between the approaches to this on either side of the Pond? The above statement appears to me to sum up the current attitude on this side.

The alternative of a sports jacket (with or without tie) is rather out of favour here at present - certainly in the southeast. An appropriate combination of suit, belt, pocket square and shoes but no tie seems to have taken on the role that might previously have been played by the sports jacket. I say 'might' as I have never been convinced of the sports jacket look.

Recently I went with a colleague for an Interview in London at the head office of a major Government Department. We both wore dark suit with tie. Our two interviewers (both middle-aged men) wore dark suits sans tie. We did not get the contract........


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I guess I like the look of a sport coat better than a suit when not wearing a tie.

However, if someone chooses to wear a suit to a casual situation and does not want to wear a tie with it, I don't see where there is a major problem.

I only own one suit, so it gets worn only to "suit and tie" situations.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

First, I'm not sure anyone has suggested that a sport coat must or should be accompanied by a tie; we can all agree that whether one should wear a tie with a sport coat is simply a question of forum, preference and judgment.

But I hold with those who say a suit should be accompanied by a tie. It just looks better. That said, I realize that lots of folks disagree and that tieless suits can engender compliments, and I don't hold it against anybody who wants to go this route. I never thought badly about the folks who wore the once very popular leisure suits either, even if I always thought they looked silly.

Some guys like black suits without a tie accompanied by square toed shoes. Without them, people with taste would not be so valued. I say live and let live.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

LondonFogey said:


> My view:
> 
> Sports jacket with no tie - looks fine and sometimes even better than sports jacket with tie.
> 
> ...


Sums up my views probably better than I could.

I will grant there are a few men--a very few--who can pull off the suit-and-no-tie look and look "cool" doing so. However, I am not among them!


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

JLibourel said:


> Sums up my views probably better than I could.
> 
> I will grant there are a few men--a very few--who can pull off the suit-and-no-tie look and look "cool" doing so. However, I am not among them!


The GQ article about the 50 most stylish men of the last 50 years tells a story about Steve McQueen attending a black tie benefit in a lumberjack shirt and jeans. The story is told as if anyone could be stylish doing that. Fact is, this only works if you ARE Steve McQueen, you KNOW you ARE Steve McQueen and EVERYONE ELSE KNOWS you ARE Steve McQueen.

My point: If Brad Pitt does it it's probably a bad idea to copy him.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

David V said:


> Any occasion that dictates a suit must also dictate a tie.


Hear, hear! 
The point about suit without tie is basically one of incongruity.
Suit = formal (by everyday's standards); open-necked shirt = casual.
Mixed modes, mixed metaphors, mixed messages.
The NYTimes article brought to our notice by MEdwards draws attention to the behaviour of the collar - such behaviour is the reason for my assertion that the look is sloppy and unfinished as well as incongruous.


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## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

Daywalker said:


> Hold it. Not everybody wears "boat-like" black shoes with their tie-less suit but if it helps you cast the look in the worst light possible, then go ahead. Second, a tie is what MAKES the suit a uniform (uni = one, one form, uni-form, everybody wears a tie). How is your wearing a short-sleeve polo with your sportcoat any less wrong than going without a tie?


1: No-a tie is what makes one uniform different from another uniform. 2: A sport coat ("sport") is not a suit. 3: The guys I see wearing black suits (not at all objectionable in itself) with an open neck white shirt are almost invariably wearing boat-like shoes.


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## Houstonian (Aug 29, 2006)

I just watched a new show I really like, Burn Notice, where the main character freuently dresses in such a manner.

Of course, he is frequently jumping off the roofs of buildings, fighting 3 people at once, etc. - so he needs a little flexibility.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Suit sans tie can look nice when properly executed. A while back in NYC dunhill, the salesman was wearing the following:

SB navy chalkstripe suit
Crisp white FC shirt
Brown suede brogue boots
White tv fold PS

Never forgot the look and hope to replicate one day when I get such a suit.

MrR


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

This is the reason white tie dress looks better than black tie dress: the tie blends in with the shirt.

This is in effect the same look that is being achieved with a suit without a tie, although on a different level.


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## Foutre le feu (Oct 9, 2007)

I think this is a fabulous example of a suit but no tie look. Granted, it is from gucci's recent spring show, so it's rather flashy, but it works.

https://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/fashionshows/S2008MEN/GUCCIMEN/RUNWAY/00020m.jpg

The vast majority of those who go sans tie don't do it well, it's true. Usually it comes across as lazy and unprofessional. But if you have the savoir faire wear a statement suit then hats off to you. Having money and a rakish air also helps..


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

It helps if the suit is a summer suit. Suits in white, cream, beige, and tan can look fine without a tie. A charcoal stripe not so much.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

MrRogers said:


> Suit sans tie can look nice when properly executed. A while back in NYC dunhill, the salesman was wearing the following:
> 
> SB navy chalkstripe suit
> Crisp white FC shirt
> ...


This is very much my view. The guy obviously did it with elan; it was intended. This is the kind of look I see in London, often exquisitely executed, and which I also try to emulate - with limited success.

It does not have to be a 'summer suit' or any particular suit. The attention to detail is all important. When done right it creates a look that no sports jacket can approach IMO.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

I think suits have to have a tie. Without a tie it would just be matching coat and trousers and maybe a vest but, not suit.


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## Daywalker (Aug 21, 2005)

Foutre le feu said:


> I think this is a fabulous example of a suit but no tie look. Granted, it is from gucci's recent spring show, so it's rather flashy, but it works.
> 
> https://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/fashionshows/S2008MEN/GUCCIMEN/RUNWAY/00020m.jpg
> 
> The vast majority of those who go sans tie don't do it well, it's true. Usually it comes across as lazy and unprofessional. But if you have the savoir faire wear a statement suit then hats off to you. Having money and a rakish air also helps..


IMO, that is an example of exactly what it should NOT look like. 
I like a nice suit without a tie for casual occasions and intend to spread the word as far and wide as possible.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

FWIW, the suit-and-open-necked-shirt is a very common look on the soap opera ("All My Children") my wife intermittently follows (and I not infrequently join her--one of the lowest of my guilty pleasures!), and most of those fellows look pretty good doing so. Of course, as a general matter, soap stars of either sex (the younger ones, anyway) look a helluva lot better than us ordinary mortals! And that, I think, makes a very big difference.

Without naming names, some of the tieless suit ensembles described in this thread strike me as positively clownish!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Does Erica date men who wear tieless suits?


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Does Erica date men who wear tieless suits?


Yep! She recently had an affair with Dr. Jeff Martin, the father of her long-lost son, whom she thought had been aborted (but the foetus had been transferred by the evil Dr. Madden to his own wife). Dr. Martin was given to wearing casual suits (linen, etc.) with open necked shirts. It almost broke up her marriage to Jackson Montgomery.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

George Clooney may exude charisma, sexuallity or whatever unshaven, tieless in a black suit. George Clooney shaved, and properly dressed looks like a charismatic gentleman.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

I refuse to mention Miami Vice


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Looking through Flusser's Dressing the Man (2002 edition) he dedicates a short section on suits without ties; compete with pictures of Cary Grant and Jacqueline Bouvier's father in such attire. His conclusion is that it is a great way to make the suit a bit more casual and wearable in all situations. BTW, Sator would be happy to know that the Bouvier photo is of him wearing the suit as "beach wear" but might not approve of his wearing it with a collarless t-shirt.


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## Pipps (Dec 20, 2005)

Interesting discussion, and a topic which I think is gaining considerable scrutiny from many questioning young businessmen.

This is how I address the dilema. Stripy, smart, well pressed dress shirts, with plain coloured suits.

You will still look very smart, whilst not offending your slovenly or less educated colleagues.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Mark from Plano said:


> His conclusion is that it is a great way to make the suit a bit more casual and wearable in all situations.


And I think this is exactly what those of us who like suits without ties are saying. I don't think we are saying that we think you should wear a suit without a tie in a more formal business setting in situations where a suit AND tie is appropriate. I know I'm not. I wear mine on Saturday night to the club or to a party or to dinner; not to a meeting with the Mayor.

To those of you here who are aware of my penchant for jeans and a sport coat on Saturday night, it looks to me like I'm not dumbing down my business attire but rather dressing up my casual attire by wearing a suit without a tie. I don't see how most of you could consider that a bad thing.

Cruiser


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## lee lin (May 2, 2007)

should i wear a tie with a cream linen suit in the summer?


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> To those of you here who are aware of my penchant for jeans and a sport coat on Saturday night, it looks to me like I'm not dumbing down my business attire but rather dressing up my casual attire by wearing a suit without a tie. I don't see how most of you could consider that a bad thing.
> Cruiser


It may, perhaps, be the lesser of two evils.


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## Pipps (Dec 20, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> To those of you here who are aware of my penchant for jeans and a sport coat on Saturday night, it looks to me like I'm not dumbing down my business attire but rather dressing up my casual attire by wearing a suit without a tie...
> Cruiser


Lesser of two evils?

It is the best thing to do in a non-formal environment.

Hat's off! :aportnoy:

PS: Sports Coat with jeans is the way for the modern gentleman!


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Mr. Pipps said:


> Lesser of two evils?
> 
> It is the best thing to do in a non-formal environment.
> PS: Sports Coat with jeans is the way for the modern gentleman!


Suit-without-tie, and sports-coat-with-jeans, are both incongruous mixes.
Can you not, will you not, see this?
"When will they ever learn?"


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

lee lin said:


> should i wear a tie with a cream linen suit in the summer?


You can wear a tie for sure. But with such a casual suit and the high temperatures it is worn in, a tie is not necessary. In a suit like this meant for casual wear in the summer, I think it can be appropriate to go without a tie.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

Rossini said:


> I like your rules except for No. 5! :-(


Took the words right out of my mouth.

I agree with all except #5.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

Inspired by this thread, and having seen a few print and television models sporting the look, I opted for it today:

Dark blue 3 button suit; black shoes and belt; French blue barrel cuff, medium spread collar, no tie.

I've already gotten two comments, and it wasn't even 9:00 yet: 

1. Where's the interview? (teasingly, by a coworker who was also on the receiving end of that question when he was dressing up);

2. A second coworker looked at with surprise and said "I'm afraid to ask... ". I responded with "See, no tie... no interview, no funeral. I just like to do this occasionally." He laughed and said "oh that's cool".

Wait until I do come in with a tie (and French cuffs). :devil:


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Frank aka The Minotaur said:


> Wait until I do come in with a tie (and French cuffs). :devil:


I like to do this about once or twice a week (today for example). If someone asks why, I just say "Oh, no reason" and leave it at that. It's good to keep 'em guessing...:devil:.

Actually I've done it so much by now I'm not sure anyone notices anymore.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Three button and no tie? Hmm....maybe two would be better?!


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Suits*

Gentlemen

I have mixed my suit coats with my jeans to great success. Nice look, many more compliments on this look.
Have nice day


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

Rossini said:


> Three button and no tie? Hmm....maybe two would be better?!


Yes, you're probably right. I'm not wild about three button, but I liked the suit overall. I tend to button only the center button.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

Mark from Plano said:


> I like to do this about once or twice a week (today for example). If someone asks why, I just say "Oh, no reason" and leave it at that. It's good to keep 'em guessing...:devil:.
> 
> Actually I've done it so much by now I'm not sure anyone notices anymore.


That's my plan for over the winter months. But I doubt I will do suit AND tie together. That would be over the top for where I work, and definitely have them all a-twitter. :devil: At the very least it will be tie and dress slacks, maybe sport coat.


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## VincentC (May 23, 2008)

I have a 3 piece black suit and i think it looks better without a tie to be honest.


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## Josey (Apr 30, 2008)

:icon_smile: Pretty much spot on.


LondonFogey said:


> My view:
> 
> Sports jacket with no tie - looks fine and sometimes even better than sports jacket with tie.
> 
> ...


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Suit without tie: to quote the late, great Wm Safire (well, I won't bother to look it up) you have to earn it. Not so great looking on a young punk, with all due respect. Save it til you're 60 and have done something--right, Cruiser?


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

A grey suit and a black turtleneck was one of my standard weekend/informal/urban outfits long before I turned 60, and it has remained so since.


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## jblaze (Oct 6, 2009)

I see this look all of the time (and do it myself) in business meetings. It seems almost part of the "corporate uniform" when dressing a bit up from business casual.

I happen to like the look, but it may be "incorrect" according to purists, but rest assured that you would not look in the least bit out of place with this look in business meetings.

Some people do wear french cuffs and some people just leave their jacket on the chair.


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## VincentC (May 23, 2008)

Wearing a shirt without a tie, is calleds sans tie isnt it? Which is a new term to me.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Gray suit with black turtleneck--now that's a different matter, a great look. I was thinking of regular cut and sewn shirts.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

For those of you who think that the suit with no tie works, I would like to see some photos. I think this is hard to pull off, particularly for a young man. IMO it is nothing more than a continuation of the slide into casual dressing. 

It fits right in with the "top shirt button unbuttoned when wearing a tie" discussion. Good God. Wear a suit or don't wear a suit. But when you wear a suit, wear a tie and button the top button. If you want to be more casual, there are many options which are better than dumbing down your suit.


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## richard d. (Mar 17, 2010)

*Suits without ties.*

Steve, You're so right...I cannot imagine wearing a suit and no tie. Why discount your nice suit? Also, when a man wears a tie and leaves the top button unbuttoned...to me it reflect sloppy, unkept look, and no respect for the money one has spent on their suit. I would also like to see some pictures where a suit can look decent without a tie. Might as well wear flip flops if you're wearing no tie in my opinion. I would be open to seeing pics too Steve. Now I do think a nice turtle neck can look nice and perhaps dress down a suit for something casual. I just think it looks like one forget and left their tie at home. Richard d. Jacksonville / Fl



Steve Smith said:


> For those of you who think that the suit with no tie works, I would like to see some photos. I think this is hard to pull off, particularly for a young man. IMO it is nothing more than a continuation of the slide into casual dressing.
> 
> It fits right in with the "top shirt button unbuttoned when wearing a tie" discussion. Good God. Wear a suit or don't wear a suit. But when you wear a suit, wear a tie and button the top button. If you want to be more casual, there are many options which are better than dumbing down your suit.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

richard d. said:


> Steve, You're so right...I cannot imagine wearing a suit and no tie.


Indeed, he is, and so are you!


> Why discount your nice suit? Also, when a man wears a tie and leaves the top button unbuttoned...to me it reflects sloppy, unkept look ... Might as well wear flip flops if you're wearing no tie in my opinion.


Also in mine. 


> Now I do think a nice turtle neck can look nice and perhaps dress down a suit for something casual.


This can work (and I think does work in winter with a tweed suit).


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## PinkPlaidSocks (May 1, 2008)

Not saying good or bad, you guys duke it out.......

Cary Grant 
Brad Pitt https://www.thesunblog.com/frosting/angelina-jolie-brad.jpg
Barack Obama 
Anderson Cooper https://www.mensflair.com/ns/media/no-tie-look.jpg
George Clooney https://www.cinema.com/image_lib/news_georgeclooney5.jpg
Clark Gable https://images.cdn.fotopedia.com/flickr-4121331357-image.jpg
Ralph Lauren https://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m180/two2tone/RL.jpg
Andy Gilchrist


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

PinkPlaidSocks said:


> Not saying good or bad, you guys duke it out.......
> 
> Cary Grant
> Brad Pitt https://www.thesunblog.com/frosting/angelina-jolie-brad.jpg
> ...


The ones that pull it off best are Cary Grant, Clark Gable, and Ralph Lauren. It's because they are wearing casual suits, not formal business suits. The others (except Anderson Cooper) are wearing dark business suits with solid white shirts. To me, they are all screaming for ties for some colour, or something ease the stark contrast between the white shirt and dark suit.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Once you are over 40 you've earned the right to NOT wear a tie if you don't want to :icon_smile_big:


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

No one's mentioned wearing a high-end, well tailored suit, preferably chalk stripe, with no shirt at all. Anybody do that? Quite popular here.​


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Peak and Pine said:


> No one's mentioned wearing a high-end, well tailored suit, preferably chalk stripe, with no shirt at all. Anybody do that? Quite popular here.​



​As far as I'm concerned a suit needs to be relatively trim fitting (well tailored?) in order to look good when worn casually without a tie. I think striped suits are the only non-solids that translate easily into a casual look. Other suit patterns don't work as well, if at all.

Cruiser


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

A suit without a tie has to be AT LEAST as bad as an overcoat and tie without a jacket!! 

It's a suit. Put on a tie already!!


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> A suit without a tie has to be AT LEAST as bad as an overcoat and tie without a jacket!!
> It's a suit. Put on a tie already!!


Agree a thousand times!
This point could also be put negatively - if you don't want to wear a tie, then don't wear a suit.


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## Kuttermax (Mar 16, 2010)

godan said:


> A grey suit and a black turtleneck was one of my standard weekend/informal/urban outfits long before I turned 60, and it has remained so since.


Or grey suit with black shirt, no tie. While not something I would wear to work, certainly something I would wear in a more casual setting such as drinks after work on a Friday night.


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## recoveringchef (Nov 17, 2009)

Bwahaha! Or perhaps an odd jacket with jorts? Anyone try that yet?:idea:



Peak and Pine said:


> No one's mentioned wearing a high-end, well tailored suit, preferably chalk stripe, with no shirt at all. Anybody do that? Quite popular here.​


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Kuttermax said:


> Or grey suit with black shirt, no tie. While not something I would wear to work, certainly something I would wear in a more casual setting such as drinks after work on a Friday night.


I wore this very thing to a Saturday night party a couple of months ago and my lady friend who was with me loved it. The suit was charcoal grey.

Cruiser


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

recoveringchef said:


> Bwahaha! Or perhaps an odd jacket with jorts? Anyone try that yet?:idea:


Sadly, yes. People unfortunately tried this style before.










Well, at least he's wearing a bowtie.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

*Banded collars?*

My post earlier in this thread on wearing suits with turtlenecks was relatively favorably received, but this one may be different. I like banded collar shirts so much that when I retired I had several of my dress shirts converted to banded collars by a skilled tailor. I wear them often, buttoned completely, of course, with suits. I believe their appearance is much the same as a turtleneck, but visually lighter. Mocks, which are somewhat similar, always seem sloppy, but a well-fitting banded collar, buttoned, looks neat and seems right to me.


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## R0ME0 (Feb 10, 2010)

Rossini said:


> In the world of business casual, the suit without a tie look is gaining increasing prevalence. I have thought, or been conditioned to think, that it always looks a bit lazy and has a touch of the car salesman/gangsternightclub bouncer about it. Yet, on occasion, people do pull it off and it can sometimes look ok or even (dare I say it) good.
> 
> My personal preference would always be to wear a tie. My suspicion, reading this forum, is that there is a US-bias that would fall very firmly against a suit without a tie partly because sportsjackets are so common in the states as an alternative. In Europe, however, a suit without a tie is more common and seen as slightly more formal IMO than a sportsjacket + trousers.
> 
> Interested to see what your views are. Also, if you do think its possible to carry off a suit without a tie, do you think it matters what kind of suit - i.e. does it need to be more deconstructed, no pin-stripes, etc, etc....


I personally don't like this look. Not my cup of tea.


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## jamz (Mar 6, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> No one's mentioned wearing a high-end, well tailored suit, preferably chalk stripe, with no shirt at all. Anybody do that? Quite popular here.​


I do this, but bracers are a must. Especially with a potbelly.


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## bkdc (Mar 4, 2007)

I do it all the time when I leave work and decide to join my friends in happy hour The tie comes off and the top button becomes undone. It wouldn't fly in a professional setting. I agree with all of Daywalker's rules including #5.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Rossini said:


> In the world of business casual, the suit without a tie look is gaining increasing prevalence. I have thought, or been conditioned to think, that it always looks a bit lazy and has a touch of the car salesman/gangsternightclub bouncer about it...
> My personal preference would always be to wear a tie. My suspicion, reading this forum, is that there is a US-bias that would fall very firmly against a suit without a tie partly because sportsjackets are so common in the states as an alternative. In Europe, however, a suit without a tie is more common and seen as slightly more formal IMO than a sportsjacket + trousers.


During the 1980s sports jackets certainly went into a decline in the UK - they were "squeezed" between suits and more casual wear. But sports jacket worn with a tie has always been perfectly acceptable as professional wear and was - perhaps still is - the standard working dress of male schoolteachers; as a teacher I wore it throughout my career. And while I took the jacket off if it was hot, I always wore the tie.
Much as I loathe the open-collared shirt with any jacket, it may be that this "look" has rescued the sports jacket from the extinction with which it seemed threatened.


bkdc said:


> I do it all the time when I leave work and decide to join my friends in happy hour The tie comes off and the top button becomes undone. It wouldn't fly in a professional setting.


As you might deduce from above, I would take the jacket off, not the tie.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

*Sorry if someone has used this, just git tired of reading*

Well...Sadaam went with the suit/no tie look at his trial--but that didn't work out so well for him. Of course, his resources had greatly diminshed since the toppling of his regime.:icon_smile_big:


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## bmoney (Mar 27, 2007)

*No Tie*

What was with that? I presumed they were throwing him in and out of the jail cell and the tie was the least of his concerns. Ahmadinejead doesn't wear a tie either. I wonder if it is a cultural thing not too, though Persian and Arab cultures are distinct.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I believe Ayatollah Khomenei proclaimed neckties to be "un-Islamic." One of those Iranian ayatollahs did, anyway.


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## ATLien (Jan 6, 2009)

Daywalker said:


> I'm with Cruiser on this topic. If it looks good (and it really can), do it.
> There are "rules" for doing this, however.
> 
> 1. Keep your coat buttoned when standing.
> ...


You said there are "rules" for doing this. Do you mean these are your personal rules or generally accepted rules. If they are general rules, I'd be interested in the source of these?


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## Master-Classter (Jan 22, 2009)

I do this all the time, but then again my environment is a bit more casual. 

It's a one-up on just pants and a shirt. I guess if your office is suit and tie then yes, it's sort of a "you have to earn it" thing.


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

*With a necktie and without a necktie*

Here's how you look:

With necktie: British diplomat

Without necktie: if you don't pull it off very adroitly (see Cruiser's remarks on trim silhoutte), Iranian diplomat or Nuremburg trial defendant.

IMHO, just about anyone can look good in a suit without a necktie. But it's harder to do and takes more care.


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2010)

Master-Classter said:


> I do this all the time, but then again my environment is a bit more casual.


In the UK at least lots of offices no longer require formal clothes and its just smart-casual, whatever that means. A lot of people then end up wearing suits just because its easier than working out what smart-casual actually means. Its easier just to put on a decent suit and short and know you'll look ok. However, most of them, including me, can be bothered to do battle with a tie in the morning.

Consequently, ties in the office start to look date or slightly odd, a bit like wearing a sports coat into the office.

Matt


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

In this excerpt from "Austin City Limits" Lyle Lovett shows how to wear a suit (black no less) without a tie; and for those who notice such things, a pocket square. At the same time I'm sure that the cowboy boots won't impress many here. :icon_smile_big:






Cruiser


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

A suit without a tie is one tie short of a suit.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

matthelliwell said:


> In the UK at least lots of offices no longer require formal clothes and its just smart-casual, whatever that means. A lot of people then end up wearing suits just because its easier than working out what smart-casual actually means. Its easier just to put on a decent suit and short and know you'll look ok. However, most of them, including me, can be bothered to do battle with a tie in the morning.
> 
> Consequently, ties in the office start to look date or slightly odd, a bit like wearing a sports coat into the office.
> 
> Matt


"Do battle with a tie?" I doubt it takes me longer than a minute most mornings.


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