# The 'trad' bicycle



## Hugh Morrison (May 24, 2005)

In a world where most cyclists wear dayglo jackets, plastic hats and ballerin tights while riding with their bums in their air, it's important for the trad cyclist to stick to his guns, riding sedately through the streets with the only concession to his clothing standards being his bicycle clips. 

Unfortunately practical considerations like storage space compel me to use a modern folding bike, but the Pashley would seem to be the ideal Trad bicycle for gentlemen.



Indeed I used to have a cheap secondhand replica of one of these, in British Racing Green, which served me well for some years. 

Are there any other 'trad' cyclists out there?

'The casual idea is the triumph of misguided egalitarianism. By playing to the desire to seem non-judgmental, the Slob has succeeded in forcing his tastes on the world at large (because to object to inappropriate dress would be judgmental)'- Patrick07690


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Just back from my few days in Paris where I was surprised and charmed to see so many elegant young women on trad looking bicycles.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Trimmer_
> 
> Just back from my few days in Paris where I was surprised and charmed to see so many elegant young women on trad looking bicycles.


when I was 22, on my first work trip to Europe, almost 20 years ago, I was in Amsterdamn in Nov and I remember seeing all of these very good looking people, dressed in real adult clothes, riding bikes, which were very trad bikes, looking back. It made a huge impression on me. at that point in my life I had never seen an adult in a suit riding a bike, and certainly not a couple riding a bike, with the beutiful young lady in a dress perched on the back carrier while the man pedeled in a suit and tie.

I honestly don't know if you see the same thing today in Amsterdamn, but it made a huge impression on me then.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

The last time I saw anyone wearing jacket and tie on a bicycle was when I was in primary school. Quite a few of my fellow students did this - although I'm not sure if school uniforms are what you had in mind. Oh, our bicycle of choice then was the big old-fashioned Huffy, unless you were fortunate enough to have an "English" bike.
Cheers


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## GreyFlannelMan (Jun 16, 2004)

One does see the same thing in Amsterdam today. Well-dressed people riding practical bikes. Let's face it: most people don't need an $800+ bicycle for their daily riding. Most people don't ride daily, which is a shame. 

Slightly OT, but in Paris last week, I was pleasantly surprised by the number of people still riding scooters despite the frigid temps. I wish these were more popular in NYC.


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## Hugh Morrison (May 24, 2005)

Indeed one does see smartly dressed people cycling trad bikes in Amsterdam, Paris and Copenhagen. You can also spot the occasional one in Oxford and Cambridge as well. London cyclists, alas, tend to conform to the 'space alien' stereotype although you sometimes see suit-wearing cyclists in the City. 

Partly it's to do with our wealthy times - in the old days a bicycle was just a cheap practical form of transport and one wore one's normal clothes on it because there was no market for specialist gear. 

Now it is touted as an 'extreme sport' which requires special expensive clothing even for a 1/2 mile trip to the library.

'The casual idea is the triumph of misguided egalitarianism. By playing to the desire to seem non-judgmental, the Slob has succeeded in forcing his tastes on the world at large (because to object to inappropriate dress would be judgmental)'- Patrick07690


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## Nantucket Red (Jan 26, 2006)

My brother has a wonderful and very trad Robin Hood complete with light and bell. It's built like a tank.

-------------------------------------------------
God gave us women; the Devil gave them corsets.
- French proverb


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## texas1L (Feb 13, 2006)

Space suits? Please, don't talk about anything you don't know anything about. It's all practical. 20 miles in the saddle creates chaffing. An upright saddle position creates too much pressure on the sit-bones.

The bike you showed is an example of an English 3-speed roadster, extremely tough bikes built to last, popular for country use during the 50's, but also extremely heavy, and with only 3-speeds, tough to get over a big hill. Never that popular outside of the UK.

My idea of a trad bike would be a 10-speed steel touring bike.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

While not totally trad, you can visit:

www.rivbike.com

These bike and the wool bike clothing they offer are retro in the finest use of the word.

I will post my Rivendell saluki here as well as my rivendell custom, these are all inspired from the bikes of the 70's and earlier..they have the Glorious and Wilbur for those that truly want to go back to a grander time, but beware, prices are not small for these wonderful modern interpretation of past wonders.

The first is a Rivendell Saluki, inspired by the french touring bikes of days long gone and with the odd 650b tire size:

The next is my totally custom rivendell with 700C wheels. Note that both of these bikes are set up with upright bars and a nice wide leather saddle, all in a very retro, comfortable riding positions...cycling is one of my hobbies and when my knees and back got to a point I had to make adjustments, these are the results.

guit


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## Lucky (Jan 21, 2005)

tex..no one above is speaking of 20 mile bike rides!...the thread talks about a bike apropriate to someone who is dressed nicely and who seeks basic, but stylish, transportation...I have a matching pair of Pashleys, one male and one female model,that truly fill the bill for this...not the sort of bicycles you would take out for a lengthy sweaty ride(I think it weighs 42 pounds!)..but perfect for getting from point A to point B in a leisurely fashion..think english county lane circa 1930..


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Lucky,

You can have it both ways...My bikes can be used with nice clothing (although you will need to tie down your right pant leg), or go for a 20+ mile ride...if you want to wear regular shoes, not have the clips possible scrap or scratch the leather, the toe clips can be taken off.

guit


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

My parents in the 1980s rode two old English bikes. The female model I don't remember but Dad's was a drake, black with white fenders. 

Sadly, they stopped riding them and they were sold to some people in Fenwick who seem to be the only market in SE Connecticut for such vehicles.

I didn't miss them then but in retrospect it might have been nice to still have that Drake around.


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## lostinaustin (Jul 27, 2005)

guitone,

Love those Rivendells. And the nitto accessories.

They seem quite similar to each other. Just out of curiosity, do they serve different purposes for you?


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

lostinaustin,

They do look alike but are not...they are both relaxed geometry bikes, one has the 650b wheel and tires (so the tires are fat, 32mm) the other, the rivendell custom has 700c tires at 28mm. The rivendell is a faster bike, it can be set up to race, but my bones don't like that anymore...the bars are for my back, the newer shorter TA cranks for my knees....so the saluki is my go everywhere bike, firetrails, supermarket, anywhere I feel like it at a moderate pace. The rivendell is my go faster bike (although my go faster is nowhere close to where it used to be)..

The nitto stuff is first rate, I love the rack and bars...you obviously are a bike guy, anytime you want to talk....

Joel

guit


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## Hugh Morrison (May 24, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by texas1L_
> 
> Space suits? Please, don't talk about anything you don't know anything about. It's all practical. 20 miles in the saddle creates chaffing. An upright saddle position creates too much pressure on the sit-bones.
> 
> ...


I have been cycling for over twenty years on a variety of different bikes and terrains, principally MTBs but also touring bikes, so I do know a fair bit about it and the need for the right equipment, though I manage 10 miles a day in the English winter in 'normal' clothes on an upright bike with no problems.

I would of course dress differently for competitive or long distance cycling. My argument is that for leisurely cycling or commuting less than about 15-20 miles a day, you don't need special gear, but a lot of newbies buy it because they feel they need to look the part.

The term 'space alien' (not 'space suit' - that would be interesting to wear on a bike!) is a disparaging term used by the UK press for cyclists who wear the full monty of face mask, helmet, eye protectors, lycra body suit etc.

'The casual idea is the triumph of misguided egalitarianism. By playing to the desire to seem non-judgmental, the Slob has succeeded in forcing his tastes on the world at large (because to object to inappropriate dress would be judgmental)'- Patrick07690


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## Lucky (Jan 21, 2005)

guit..those look like great bikes....I'm in the market for a new bike..was thinking of a mountain bike but I'm going to check yours out..thanks


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

Guitone,

As a long-time-appreciator of the Rivendell bikes and their philosophy, I must congratulate you on your two bikes. Very handsome and, I'm sure, a pleasure to ride.

I hope you enjoy them for many, many years. (I'm sure you will!)

Markus


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## Kimo (Sep 16, 2005)

Count me in as a trad cyclist. I daily commute + miles on an all steel Raleigh ( for pix see Sheldon Brownâ€™s great bicycle site: https://sheldonbrown.com/images/superbe54-big.jpeg )

Hugh, Iâ€™ve tried the Pashley, and they are a fine bicycle,. I enjoy most an old DL-1 Raleigh. It is a good deal cheaper than Pashley, if you can find them. And unlike the gorgeous Rivendell bicycles, my old English roadster boasts 28â€ rims, which makes potholes and the cobblestones of SOHO simplicity itself. Those Rivendells are simply too beautiful to critique. So Iâ€™ll stop the comparisons.

Mike Flanigan of ANT bicycles also makes an attractive â€œtradâ€ bicycle (www.antbikemike.com) . Another forum member suggested as a source for Dutch classic bikes. For those really into exploring English roadsters see the forum at www.oldroads.com

Like surfboards ( I can easily imagine another thread outlining traditional boards) I have a number of bicycles each suited to itâ€™s purpose. On a dare, I took out the heavy Roadster out on a century,ride, and Iâ€™m proud that I finished, but I wouldnâ€™t do it again. Iâ€™ll stick with my Bianchi racer. I also have a Raleigh 20 foldable suitably geared up with the latest components. But for my daily ride, wearing working duds, I do it on my traditional Bobbie bike. I truly enjoy the exercise, itâ€™s stately geometry has me towering over taxi-cabs and thereâ€™s nothing like seeing New York City flying down Fifth Avenue.

I share the common notion that the Bicycle industry is driven by fads, be it the mountain bike craze or the current lycra â€œbe like Lance â€œcraze of 4 figure retail roadbikes. In all this the Gentlemanâ€™s bicycle, the roadster, be it a Pashley, Rivendell, Raleigh etc. has been proven as reliable transportation all over the world. I do own a car, but Iâ€™d rather be riding.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Lucky,

Email me or phone me if you want and I can give you a down and dirty on the different RIvendell bikes and what the advantages are. They do not make a mountain bike, but they have some very unique things.

Joel

[email protected]



> quote:_Originally posted by Lucky_
> 
> guit..those look like great bikes....I'm in the market for a new bike..was thinking of a mountain bike but I'm going to check yours out..thanks


guit


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Markus,

Thank you..these are both great bike, I love riding each.....

Joel



> quote:_Originally posted by Markus_
> 
> Guitone,
> 
> ...


guit


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

A different kind of trad: no brakes, no freewheel, single speed. The bike I lust after, the Bianchi Pista:



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"It is an old trick. The playgoer who does not like dirty plays is denounced as a prude; the music-lover who resents cacophony is told he is a pedant; and in all these matters the final crushing blow administered to the man of discrimination is the ascription to him of a hidebound prejudice against things that are new because they are new." -Royal Cortissoz


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Curator_
> 
> A different kind of trad: no brakes, no freewheel, single speed. The bike I lust after, the Bianchi Pista:


Pistas aren't that expensive are they? I had an old Falcon I converted to single spped although I kept the freewheel & brakes, more practical for me. I also have a Peugeot Triathlon circa 1984, 12 speeds, friction shifting, ah...

Back on topic, I'd have to say the old English bikes would be very Trad.

Brian


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

Yeah, Pista lust is lust for an attainable object that I'll probably still never acquire. They go for around $600 I think, but they're so sought after they can be difficult to lay ones hands on.

Your quiver sounds mouth-watering.

-----------------------------------
"It is an old trick. The playgoer who does not like dirty plays is denounced as a prude; the music-lover who resents cacophony is told he is a pedant; and in all these matters the final crushing blow administered to the man of discrimination is the ascription to him of a hidebound prejudice against things that are new because they are new." -Royal Cortissoz


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Is that a single speed or a fixed gear?

guit


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> Is that a single speed or a fixed gear?
> 
> guit


The Pista? That is a fixed gear bike.

Brian


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

forgive my sloppy terminology, I could have saved time in saying just "fixed gear" instead of "single speed, no freewheel."

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"It is an old trick. The playgoer who does not like dirty plays is denounced as a prude; the music-lover who resents cacophony is told he is a pedant; and in all these matters the final crushing blow administered to the man of discrimination is the ascription to him of a hidebound prejudice against things that are new because they are new." -Royal Cortissoz


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Not at all, there are both single speeds and fixed (as you well know), but I should have just know with the absence of brakes. Fixed gear riding is another story all together....



> quote:_Originally posted by Curator_
> 
> forgive my sloppy terminology, I could have saved time in saying just "fixed gear" instead of "single speed, no freewheel."
> 
> ...


guit


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

The Pista looks nice but why would one ever ride a bicycle without brakes? Not meant to troll, just curious!

To me that seems like a design defect suit waiting to happen.


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## Lance (Jan 10, 2004)

Coolidge,

Those bikes are usually ridden on an enclosed track or on rollers, not the road.

Thanks,
Lance

"Now is the dramatic moment of fate, Watson, when you hear a step upon the stair which is walking into your life, and you know not whether for good or ill."


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
> 
> The Pista looks nice but why would one ever ride a bicycle without brakes? Not meant to troll, just curious!
> 
> To me that seems like a design defect suit waiting to happen.


The Pista is a racing bike, commonly called a track bike, meant to be used in a velodrome. Having grown up racing bikes, I would often ride my track bike (Schwinn Paramount) in city traffic, to hone my cycling skills. Doing so, one learns to concentrate, anticipate and react, which are immensely useful skills for racing. It can be dangerous.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

Some of those bikes in Europe did look nice. Especially on those bike trails and paths that seem to be just like what one might imagine on a postcard. When you live in land where the humidity reads like the temperature, though, such scenes remain part of Europe.


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## Where Eagles Dare (Feb 14, 2006)

Bike 3 is my personal favorite.


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## Super Fly (Nov 25, 2004)

Those Vanilla bikes are gorgeous. Very similar to Rivendellâ€™s approach, masterful detail.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

The Vanilla bikes look very nice...I did not see a geometry page, I would hope that the non track bikes are relaxed in the angles...they look great. All of these bikes are quite expensive, and generally worth every penny. I have 3 Rivendells at home, one is my first frame that is now my girlfriends, it is too small for me. The one philosophy that I love about rivendell is that they put you on the biggest bike you can handle and that tends to add to the comfort, it helps your arms, back and neck, nice approach. Grant Petersen is thought of as a retro grouch, a maverick...all he is, is a really smart bike design guy, and a wonderful person. He has gotten me back to riding after over a 10 year layoff due to a bad back, and I ride 20 plus miles at a time in season (before my knee surgeries I was riding 40 and 50 mile rides, those days are not in my immediate future). In the nice weather I get home from work and ride for about an hour each day and on weekends a couple of hours...a great hobby and it keeps me in shape.

I also have a cheapish Surly that I built up and converted the wheel size to 650b. I have a metal basket and rack on this bike and it is perfect for going on errands around town. Yea, I like bikes.

guit


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## Duane Gran (Jan 14, 2005)

I used to race competitively (road racing) but these days I'm recreational. I would be better served by an upright bike, but alas I have the hard-core gear and may resemble the fanatics you lampoon. To that end, let me clarify two things:

-- dayglo jackets are vital. A cyclist is effectively invisible when not seen. Defensive riding goes only so far, but garish colors help. It is the only place I care to be seen in bright yellow, but I prefer it over being fashionably dead.
-- plastic hats save lives, plain and simple.


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## johnapril (Feb 8, 2006)

The last time I saw old bikes like that was in Bagan.


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## nicksull (Sep 1, 2005)

In Italy - somewhere like Milan - the equivalent of Pashley would be something like this more classic Bianchi cycled slowly of course from ones apartment in Via della Spiga to lunch at Bice in Via Borgospesso. A distance of some 800 yards. And nary a space alien in sight. Perfetto



nicks


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## nicksull (Sep 1, 2005)

Oh that didnt work....



nicks


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## Where Eagles Dare (Feb 14, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> The Vanilla bikes look very nice...I did not see a geometry page, I would hope that the non track bikes are relaxed in the angles...they look great.


They don't have a goemetry page because they are custom-built. You have to visit Saca and get measured. Then he builds the bike to your specs.


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## Kimo (Sep 16, 2005)

Very nice Italian bike. Thanks Nick! For those interested in geometry, the classic roadster has a long wheelbase (46") which makes for unusual handling. It certainly doesn't feel like a track bike, but it allows a very solid feeling on the road. A very stable ride, not at all twitchy. That wheelbase made for some nice carving through the snow today. For those lusting after the Pista and other like minded slick track machines, I'd offer my shredded trousers legs (and the near miss) I've had while racing on my track bike to work. I've found that the full chaincase is overkill, but I appreciate the hockey stick on my daily rider. These classic bikes were designed for the well dressed gent.


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## Where Eagles Dare (Feb 14, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Kimo_
> 
> Very nice Italian bike. Thanks Nick! For those interested in geometry, the classic roadster has a long wheelbase (46") which makes for unusual handling. It certainly doesn't feel like a track bike, but it allows a very solid feeling on the road. A very stable ride, not at all twitchy. That wheelbase made for some nice carving through the snow today. For those lusting after the Pista and other like minded slick track machines, I'd offer my shredded trousers legs (and the near miss) I've had while racing on my track bike to work. I've found that the full chaincase is overkill, but I appreciate the hockey stick on my daily rider. These classic bikes were designed for the well dressed gent.


I wouldn't consider a Pista, or any welded steel frame to be "Classy". Welding is for Titanium. Steel must be fillet brazed or lugged. Welded steel belongs to Huffys, Schwinns and others of their ilk.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Much like everything else, the Italians produce the best road and track bikes in the world 

I competed for several years in road races, in the velodrome and in invidual time trials

My favorite road bike was a custom Colnago olympic master.....amazing piece of machinery......

MrR

"Give me the luxuries in life and I'll gladly go without the necessities"


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

The current bikes coming from almost anywhere, unless custom, are all TIG welded. It is not that easy, unless you want to spend lot's of money to get a nice steel lugged frame. Richard Sachs, who builds in CT is considered one if not the greatest bike builder (race bikes specifically). He took much of what he does from the old Italian masters..and yes, you can still get a great Italian bike, but you really have to know what you are looking for. Now there are a couple of French and Canadian builders than build in the French touring stuyle, Mariposa being one, Barry in Canada being another. These bikes have huge waiting lists and are some of the finest built today.

guit


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

Pardon me for jumping in, but what kind of helmet is a "trad" helmet?


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## CWJ (Mar 22, 2006)

For the former competitive cyclist, a trad helmet would have to be an old leather hairnet. Maybe a dandified trad former competitive cyclist would have one in red, white and green.

Fogey cyclists might wear the original Bells.

Trad cycling shoes?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Since I had not discovered AAAC when this thread was first initiated, I'm glad to see it has been resurrected. Suprised to see no mention of Schwin models in a discussion of TRAD bikes...how about an S-10, full suspension, mountain bike. If not that, the old Schwin crusiers must be TRAD...not efficient but TRAD.


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## JRY (Mar 22, 2005)

Hmm... "trad" bicycle? The list would surely have to include the venerable Schwinn Paramount and maybe the English Jackson Racers, both as built in the 1960's and 70's. Good stuff.

Regards,

JRY

_Context - Delineation - Resolution_


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## Hugh Morrison (May 24, 2005)

Apart from a WW2 leather flying helmet there isn't really a trad cycling helmet. For those concerned about safety I suggest a read of this:

As for dayglo jerkins etc...I tend to just use a Sam Browne belt, usually only in low visibility or at night. Has a 'trad' feel for some reason, I don't know why.

For all your pantomime requirements visit www.pantomimesonline.co.uk
'The casual idea is the triumph of misguided egalitarianism. By playing to the desire to seem non-judgmental, the Slob has succeeded in forcing his tastes on the world at large (because to object to inappropriate dress would be judgmental)'- Patrick07690


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## Randall (Apr 21, 2006)

It's really interesting to see trad ideals applied to bikes. Cool thread. I ride two bikes; one is a 1958 Schwinn, very trad. The other is a Breezer -- simply a great commuter bike, while probably not truly trad. www.breezerbikes.com I actually do ride it to work wearing a suit and tie (my office is only 1/2 mile from my house).

-Randall


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## SartoNYC (Feb 22, 2005)

Having ridden them all. Titanium, carbon, steel, aluminum. Litespeed, Corima, Felt, Calfee, Colnago. My next bike is going to be a custom steel fixed gear with Campagnolo Record, hand painted in my Highland Tartan.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Does your tartan have any "Bianchi green" in it?


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## Where Eagles Dare (Feb 14, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by KenR_
> 
> Does your tartan have any "Bianchi green" in it?


You mean "Celeste" right?


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Yes, I think so. It's that light green that many Bianchis sport.


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## lostinaustin (Jul 27, 2005)

For me, Trad = Lugged Steel Frames. And American custom builders have surpassed most Euro builders. See:

www.rivendellbicycles.com
www.vanillabicycles.com
www.richardsachs.com
www.waterfordbikes.com

Then there are the trad components:
Brooks Saddles www.wallbike.com/swallowclassic.html
Nitto Stems and Bars www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/handlebars_stems_tape/16027.html

When I give up racing/crashing, I'm going to invest in one of those Vanilla frames.


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## misterman (Feb 3, 2005)

a song..."motorcycle" by rumble strips


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## thomj513 (Apr 7, 2006)

I know this is an old thread but I finally found the link I was thinking of when this was active. Check-out the Dress Code section. www.3speedtour.com.


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