# Professor Wear



## DPC3 (Jun 15, 2009)

I will be starting my doctorate program soon, and am curious what would be a good set of clothing either to move across to or upgrade to. The reason I ask is because I believe I will be teaching some classes as a part of my program. I am a project manager, and have a respectable wardrobe of sports coats, dress shirts, ties, and the like, but I also have some good business casual BB sports shirts and nice wool trousers. At the university that I am going to be attending in my experience I have never seen a professor wear a jacket, and many do not even wear sports shirts. I will be 31. What I would really like to do is go to what I think would be traditional professor clothes and get some tweed jackets from Brooks Brothers. What do you think is appropriate? I live in Minneapolis, and I usually am the best dressed wherever I go. Thank you in Advance.
-DPC3


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You might want to pose this question on the Trad Forum as well.


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

I have a number of customers who are collage Professors. They tell me that they rarely wear a sports jacket to the classes they teach. They never wear a tie. They say they dress that way because that's how all the other professors and students dress. We have become a country of lemmings. When I was in school- which was more than 50 years ago- everyone wore a jacket or suit to class. If you feel better wearing a jacket you should do so. Maybe you will start a trend. The sports jacket and suit manufacturers will thank you. 
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
www.chipp2.com/blog/


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Check out the Trad What Are You Wearing Thread - about 1/2 the regular posters are professors or teachers of some sort.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Might be different in the upper Midwest than in the South, but I think khakis, ocbds, and an occasional blazer/jacket when you teach. Most of my grad students dress like slobs, so I find it refreshing when someone comes to class dressed appropriately. You will be one step ahead of most students because an important part of graduate school is learning how to distinguish yourself from the crowd. Hopefully, this will transfer into success in your endeavors. Good luck.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

paul winston said:


> They tell me that they rarely wear a sports jacket to the classes they teach. They never wear a tie. They say they dress that way because that's how all the other professors and students dress. We have become a country of lemmings.


OK, what were they when everyone wore a coat and tie because that's what all the other professors wore. Sounds like they were lemmings then too. :icon_smile_big:

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against professors wearing a coat and tie. My only point is that one group of professors are no more lemming like than the other. Actually it's nothing more than human nature to want to fit in with your peer group whether they are in coat and ties or sport shirts. Nothing has changed in this regard.

Cruiser


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## WhereNext (Aug 16, 2009)

It depends on the School/department and the University in general. I got my first professorship at 29 (in Georgia) and would wear different clothes depending on activities. Pretty casual if I was just going to be in my office, a bit nicer (khakis or wool trousers and a nice button front shirt or sweater) if I was meeting with students or other faculty, and I teach in a 3 piece suit. The suit thing is pretty uncommon, but it's something I do because I like. Expect comments if you do this though as it will put you in a small minority of most academics!
I think it's better to err on the side of overdressing when you teach, as I think it shows a bit of respect for your students and their time. The middle ground I posited earlier will probaby be a good balance of looking professional and towards the upper end of the academic spectrum but not to the point it will cause a stir.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

Let's see.MN. Your uniform will be tweed jackets (other sporty coats and corduroys are fine), OCBD, gabardine or corduroy slacks for most of the year, khakis in warmer times. Really nice shoes will help not in a dressy way but trad heavy longwings, chukka boots, blouchers. Tie is optional, when worn usually thinner, repp, or even woolen. Invest in some Targyles (Target argyle socks) and v-neck sweaters. At age 31 I would stay away from baggy fits, BB Regent cut should be good. Your stipend should not be spent on clothes, it will be barely enough for anything else, so follow the exchange, and eBay (This money situation will remain so when you become a professor, too, so be ready for that).
You will still stand out with what goes on today, the trick is looking good without looking like a fool. If people make fun or roll eyes, ignore them. They are the ones you will surpass in your future career if everything else is even. 
Good luck.


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## Dr Kilroy (May 10, 2010)

This is obvious - wear a tweed suit and a bow tie. :icon_smile_big:

Seriously - that's what I would do if I were you. Oh, well no - I wouldn't wear tweed in town. :smile:

I would choose a more formal way - some nice suit, a sweater vest and a tie. 

Best regards, Dr


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

On the basis of thirty years in academia, finishing as a tenured full professor and department head, my suggestion is that you first observe what your colleagues are wearing, then follow the principle of "looking good while fitting in." If you are tenure-track, you will (or should) learn the political and social niceties associated with that process. With due regard to the ideas of those who need not make a living in academia, dressing in a manner that might be interpreted as conveying a sense of superiority will draw just the sort of attention you do not want. As you learn the system, your clothing can become a little sharper, cleaner, better pressed, better coordinated and perhaps up a notch on the scale of dressiness.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

godan said:


> dressing in a manner that might be interpreted as conveying a sense of superiority will draw just the sort of attention you do not want. As you learn the system, your clothing can become a little sharper, cleaner, better pressed, better coordinated and perhaps up a notch on the scale of dressiness.


That's the ticket. Look polished, but not overdone. After tenure, I recommend wearing GTH clothing as often as possible.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> That's the ticket. Look polished, but not overdone. After tenure, I recommend wearing GTH clothing as often as possible.


I would add, also after promotion to full professor. The saddest creatures around a university are the tenured associate, and even assistant, professors who are nearing bleak retirement with no hope of promotion. Academia is a small, specialized, enclosed society with its own rules. Anyone with sense understands and adapts. Even the grubby people are nonetheless your colleagues, and they are likely to remain so for decades.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

As a former academic, I can tell you that your best option for dressing well is not being an academic and pursuing a career in which you might actually make enough money to buy what you want.

Of course, the dirty little secret about academia is that so many of your colleagues will have trust funds...

Honestly, the advice given above makes sense: aim to look nice without being too nice. You don't want to dress like you imagine yourself being someplace else, some place better. But by and large professors dress very poorly except for some of the older ones who might retain a touch of trad.



godan said:


> I would add, also after promotion to full professor. The saddest creatures around a university are the tenured associate, and even assistant, professors who are nearing bleak retirement with no hope of promotion. Academia is a small, specialized, enclosed society with its own rules. Anyone with sense understands and adapts. Even the grubby people are nonetheless your colleagues, and they are likely to remain so for decades.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> As a former academic, I can tell you that your best option for dressing well is not being an academic and pursuing a career in which you might actually make enough money to buy what you want.
> 
> Of course, the dirty little secret about academia is that so many of your colleagues will have trust funds...
> 
> .... But by and large professors dress very poorly except for some of the older ones who might retain a touch of trad.


I agree with the first sentence!
I don't really know about the second. I have met one or two.
Third statement, I disagree. We are not doing that bad hereabouts


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## MinnMD (May 6, 2008)

I agree with fitting in but at the better end of the scale. 

When lecturing medical students, I wear a tie with a blazer or coat, but medicine is more formal than other fields. For a different field, I'd suggest a wool jacket, cotton dress shirt (or wool knit), dress pants and no tie for lectures. Dress shoes are good idea. If this seems too much, remove the jacket.

MinnMD


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

godan said:


> On the basis of thirty years in academia, finishing as a tenured full professor and department head, my suggestion is that you first observe what your colleagues are wearing, then follow the principle of "looking good while fitting in." If you are tenure-track, you will (or should) learn the political and social niceties associated with that process. With due regard to the ideas of those who need not make a living in academia, dressing in a manner that might be interpreted as conveying a sense of superiority will draw just the sort of attention you do not want. As you learn the system, your clothing can become a little sharper, cleaner, better pressed, better coordinated and perhaps up a notch on the scale of dressiness.


I've been in academia 35 years. If you're a teaching faculty member and seeking tenure track, fit in with whatever your colleagues in your department wear. Most faculty I am familiar with dress pretty poorly. I have never seen a faculty member move quickly in her or his field if they dress better than colleagues, their chairperson, or their dean UNLESS they are some sort of golden child who writes prolifically and is considered a rising star in their field. Once you have tenure you can pretty do whatever you want, but until then- keep a low profile.
Tom


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## Cavebear58 (Jan 31, 2010)

paul winston said:


> I have a number of customers who are collage Professors.


LOL Coordinated accessories, no doubt then. ;-)


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## wpking (Jul 13, 2010)

Keep a low profile and try to fit in. Otherwise dress a little more sharply than average.

Studies have shown that students rate their professors higher if the professor dresses well.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I am appalled by the advice given to the OP by academics former and present. That it is most likely true and well intentioned makes it especially grievous. So one must learn early on that in modern academia conformity and mediocrity are the essential virtues? A sad lesson to pass on to the young with whom they are entrusted. How about inspiration by example? A sartorial emblem that our schools aren't peopled primarily by third-rate minds with second-hand ideas?


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

^^^ I found this out my first year of grad school when I took a course from a professor whom my PhD director had voted against for tenure. Ironically, I've found that the top-tiered research institutions are where egos and and cut-throat politics are most prevalent. Professors are just like other people; they operate in cliques, create rivalries, and act vindictively. Human nature is what it is, regardless of where you work.

OTOH, academia can be a fantastic place to work; I'm lucky to work at a university with a comfortable, collegial environment.


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## wpking (Jul 13, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> I am appalled by the advice given to the OP by academics former and present. That it is most likely true and well intentioned makes it especially grievous. So one must learn early on that in modern academia conformity and mediocrity are the essential virtues? A sad lesson to pass on to the young with whom they are entrusted. How about inspiration by example? A sartorial emblem that our schools aren't peopled primarily by third-rate minds with second-hand ideas?


The culture of academia is to pursue _intellectual _excellence.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Graduate students dress like undergraduate students, virtually everywhere. Tshirts, polos, jeans, sweatshirts. Wear OCBD's and khakis and your fellow students will neither notice or care. Deviate from that and they will think you are eccentric. That only matters in the first year. After that you won't care about what your fellow students think. Your professors will not care whether you live or die, much less how you dress. 

Letters & Sciences & Engineering Professors dress in dot-com era casual Friday business casual: button up shirts, casual slacks or jeans. Deviate from that (in either direction) and your fellow professors will think you are eccentric. Professional school professors dress to the more formal side of that or sometimes a jacket. Almost certainly, no one will care how you dress though. 

No one will ever begrudge how you dress for teaching though. Want to lecture in an Emmet Kelly sad clown get-up with full make-up? Just tell your colleagues you get better evaluations that way, they will shrug and say "Have to try that sometime".


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

wpking said:


> The culture of academia is to pursue _intellectual _excellence.


 Agree and believe 100%.
It seems like you are heading for a Nobel or a Pulitzer whatnot, then you can go around in gym shorts and nobody will care. Having personally knowing couple of Nobel laureates though, they all dress rather nicely, leaning towards trad, maybe a function of age.

P.S. If there is any evidence that clown make-up improves ratings, please let me know. "Have to try that sometime"!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

wpking said:


> The culture of academia is to pursue _intellectual _excellence.


And a condescending contempt for sartorial aesthetics by those who do or should know better is a form of intellectual slovenliness. A basic dishonesty.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> And a condescending contempt for sartorial aesthetics by those who do or should know better is a form of intellectual slovenliness. A basic dishonesty.


I am not sure about that, Flanderian. After all the responders are members of this forum, they would be condescending themselves. Academic jobs do not pay well and does not leave much time for pusuit of personal interests. Still, the summary recommendation to the young gentleman was to dress well at the end, albeit without separating out too much from his peers. Sartorial aesthetics has a wide range as can be seen by a quick comparison with the other forum. You can choose to get dandy, or remain within the acceptable range, yet keep it up. His first and foremost job, though, will be to learn his subject area inside and out. Intellectual mediocrity in academia has a Malthusian spread, poisoning many young minds, and is not acceptable. Sartorial mediocrity, on the other hand, is not desirable, but only harms the person himself.


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

I wish you the best in both your doctorate program and your search for your personal style. Forestry?


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Flanderian said:


> I am appalled by the advice given to the OP by academics former and present. That it is most likely true and well intentioned makes it especially grievous. So one must learn early on that in modern academia conformity and mediocrity are the essential virtues? A sad lesson to pass on to the young with whom they are entrusted. How about inspiration by example? A sartorial emblem that our schools aren't peopled primarily by third-rate minds with second-hand ideas?


At the university where I taught (admittedly a second-tier state university) conformity and mediocrity were certainly essential virtues among the faculty. "Third-rate minds with second-hand ideas" also sums them up pretty well. Of course, that was a long time ago. It has been 37+ years since I've been away from college teaching. Admittedly, the faculty in those days dressed pretty decently by and large: Coat and tie at minimum and more commonly suits were the norm.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

JLibourel said:


> At the university where I taught (admittedly a second-tier state university) conformity and mediocrity were certainly essential virtues among the faculty. "Third-rate minds with second-hand ideas" also sums them up pretty well. Of course, that was a long time ago. It has been 37+ years since I've been away from college teaching. Admittedly, the faculty in those days dressed pretty decently by and large: Coat and tie at minimum and more commonly suits were the norm.


In my school (Not the hallowed halls of Ivy.) the artsy profs. generally did pretty well, though a tie and jacket was the norm for all male instructors. I can still recall a prof. that taught drama, (Though I have no recollection of why I might have been in his class.) who was even a notable dandy. It's just nice to recall that schools used be something in addition to a place you went so as to learn how to make money. Dressing well need not be equated to corporate livery.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Or as my last boss in the "permanent job" world told me: Lose the tie. I did so dutifully, but I still got laid off.

I'm no professor, but I've learned that although I admire AP's style and Brownshoe's too, I'm not allowed to look like them unless I'm playing dress up in the safety of my own home. Which also helps explain why neither of those venerable dudes posts pix of themselves anymore.

Lose. The. Tie.

(Please forgive me for the negative vibe of this post. The thread rubbed off on me....)


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## ryanscottmc (Oct 19, 2010)

I say dress comfortably (if you will be on you feet for most of the day) and dress in a manner that commands the respect of your students.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Joe Beamish said:


> "Lose the tie." I did so dutifully, but I still got laid off.
> 
> Lose. The. Tie.
> 
> (Please forgive me for the negative vibe of this post. The thread rubbed off on me....)


Why? Why give in to the prejudices of the anti-tie brigade?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Keeping the job is more important in the current economic climate.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Jovan said:


> Keeping the job is more important in the current economic climate.


Joe Beamish wrote that he dutifully lost the tie but still got laid off.
Of course, one shouldn't give any excuse for being laid off; but the anti-tie prejudice needs to be challenged. This may be an American problem: I can't see any UK or other European boss telling a subordinate to "lose the tie".


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## mlongano (Feb 3, 2010)

This thread is evidence of the sad state of affairs in America...

...I remember a time, not so long ago, when a person would be looked down on for dressing slovenly...

...now it appears that we have come full circle when an employee needs to be concerned that he is not dressing slovenly enough to satisfy his poorly dressed superiors.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

The reason given (for the head of my department to tell me to lose the tie) was "we're more relaxed around here" (a virtue) which also meant "we're creative". I didn't yet have (and still do not have) B-Shoe's _je ne sais quoi_ -- and to my boss I appeared staid, stodgy, stiff. I was a dull representation of her creatively minded, edgy, British-inflected department.

All because of the tie.

I never replaced the income or benefits of that position (although I'm much happier now, but still tie-less). So my advice would be, if you want to dress sharper than your coworkers, you might want to know how to "position" this potentially significant phenomenon. It could matter! The head of a department might just view the tie wearing professor as "elitist", "out of touch" or "off-putting" to his flip floppy, hip hoppy students.

In our culture the tie appears to "mean" something, as exampled yet again by the unfortunate thread running on the other board started by Cruiser who wants us to stop criticizing the Obama-style look of wearing a dark suit with a white shirt and NO tie whenever the prez wants to send a smoove and relaxed vibe as a man of the people. The absence of the tie says "I am relaxed right now. Don't be afraid. I'm one of you."

If you're a Fast Company type place, the tie could get in the way of things in this upside down world.

I really wish the tie didn't "mean" much of anything. But often it does, so proceed with caution before freaking out your fellow professors.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Joe Beamish said:


> The reason given (for the head of my department to tell me to lose the tie) was "we're more relaxed around here" (a virtue) which also meant "we're creative"...and to my boss I appeared staid, stodgy, stiff. I was a dull representation of her creatively minded, edgy, British-inflected department.
> All because of the tie.


A boss who is disturbed or annoyed by the wearing of ties by members of her staff doesn't seem to me to be relaxed or creative!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Bastards!!


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

^1) Nobody gets fired because of a tie. 
2)If your boss tells you "lose the tie" it usually has a deeper meaning. He is not really talking about "the tie".
3) If you are indispensable, nobody will care if you wear a rice sack or Kiton. Same in academia and business.
4) It is possible to dress well without a tie, by the way.
5) Standing out is not as bad as you might think if you are in academia, especially intellectually which spreads to how you look, too. I have never tried to fit in. And, I am fine. That is one academic's experience.
6) The boss who insists everybody dress up in a certain way is just running a military shop. Nothing creative about it. Depending on the last business book he read, or the trends of his industry he may require casual, or full regalia. I am not sure that is the type of person I want to work for. But, then that is why I am in academia where salary and benefits will never match what you can get elsewhere with same set of skills.

Finally this thread went way beyond what it is intended for. I am not complaining, it's fun.

Cheers.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Joe Beamish said:


> In our culture the tie appears to "mean" something, as exampled yet again by the unfortunate thread running on the other board started by Cruiser who wants us to stop criticizing the Obama-style look of wearing a dark suit with a white shirt and NO tie whenever the prez wants to send a smoove and relaxed vibe as a man of the people. The absence of the tie says "I am relaxed right now. Don't be afraid. I'm one of you."


If you will go back and re-read what I posted you will find that I didn't say that at all. In what was obviously, since I clearly said it was, a tongue in cheek post I poked some good natured fun at those who bash just about any U.S. public figure who strays from the "rules" while ignoring British royalty or other sartorial icons who do the same.

Heck, at the end of the day I don't care who you criticize or why. I may not agree with your reasoning, but that's OK because you don't agree with mine either. I just ask that you be an equal opportunity critic. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

catside said:


> ^1) 5) I have never tried to fit in. And, I am fine.


Sir, I admire your integrity as well as your nerve. I much prefer a man with sufficient courage to be an individual, and to represent himself honestly as he sees himself, irrespective of whether I enjoy or approve of the result. For why must I?


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

I didn't say I got laid off because of the tie. I said I was seen as stodgy because of it by the boss. I was laid off along with a bunch of others when the economy went south because I was one of the more recent hires -- 6 mos. after I quit wearing ties. Sorry to have created any false impression on that point. Still, there was a sense of my not having fit in, in the boss's eyes early on.....

catside, I agree with your other point -- there's a reverse kind of uniform happening which is decidedly un-creative indeed.

My post was only half-serious, although it contained no lies....I laugh at this stuff....sorry about that.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

catside said:


> Nobody gets fired because of a tie.


I'm sure this is true


> It is possible to dress well without a tie, by the way.


Not if one is wearing sports jacket, blazer or suit.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

catside said:


> It is possible to dress well without a tie, by the way.





williamson said:


> Not if one is wearing sports jacket, blazer or suit.


Fortunately most of us do not live in a world where everyone is so narrow in their definition of what looks good. Most folks, even clothing enthusiasts, think that Sinatra knew how to dress well.










The fact is that the world is changing and fewer and fewer men are choosing to wear a necktie, but the simple elimination of this item of clothing doesn't mean that one cannot still look good. There is more to looking really good than simply putting on a suit and tie.

I have a feeling that if the old sartorial icons that are frequently held up for admiration in this forum were still alive today they would dress very differently; and that might include not wearing a tie as often as they did back in the day. You never know. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> Fortunately most of us do not live in a world where everyone is so narrow in their definition of what looks good. Most folks, even clothing enthusiasts, think that Sinatra knew how to dress well.


We've all had bad days!!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> Most folks, even clothing enthusiasts, think that Sinatra knew how to dress well.


And some of us never did. Poor Frank. But the accompanying photo does remind me of a youthful, bearded Cruiser with some apocalyptic patterned shirt buttoned at his navel.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Most folks, even clothing enthusiasts, think that Sinatra knew how to dress well.


I do not believe that jacketed-but-tieless is anything but unfinished, and therefore cannot be dressing well. Your assertion that my view is narrow does not bother me at all.


> ...fewer and fewer men are choosing to wear a necktie


So what? Are we really such busy or important people these days that we should not be expected to do as our predecessors did? Aesthetics is not determined by the majority. My gut feeling is that this is what you want to happen, so you assert that it is happening in order to try to make it happen. I have little doubt that there are people who have a casualisation agenda; I hope you are not one of these.


> ...the simple elimination of this item of clothing doesn't mean that one cannot still look good.


If by this you mean simply leaving off the tie from an _ensemble_ that would traditionally include one, that is ridiculous. If, on the other hand, you mean dressing in a completely different style, you may be right.


> There is more to looking really good than simply putting on a suit and tie.


In this I agree - see my immediately previous sentence. I have not the slightest objection to a neat and smart casual ensemble - one can indeed look really good so dressed; what I dislike above all is the ridiculous hybrid of formal and casual that is the wearing together of an open-necked shirt (casual) with a suit (formal).


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

williamson said:


> My gut feeling is that this is what you want to happen, so you assert that it is happening in order to try to make it happen.


Once again you have me pegged all wrong. Personally I don't care one way or the other whether men wear neckties or not. At age 61 I'm semi-retired and currently wear a tie about a half dozen times a year, if that much. It depends on how many weddings and funerals there are during the year.

But having said that, I wore a coat and tie to work every day for over three decades. For the majority of that period of time I wasn't required to do so. In fact, I could have worn jeans if I had wanted. Instead I chose to wear a coat and tie in an office of about 100 men where perhaps ten other guys wore ties. Much of the time I had a boss who never wore a tie. I doubt that there are many here who can say that they did that for that long a period of time.

Here is a picture of me with my boss at work one day back in the late 70's. I'm the guy in the coat and tie. You can see how my co-workers were dressing.










Now as far as the necktie industry fading, this was confirmed by a Gallup Poll a couple of years ago that showed only a tiny percentage of American men wear ties these days. Not only that but the American Dress Furnishings Association, the trade group that represents the tie business, went completely out of business due to a lack of membership. So who is asseting something in order to try and make it happen? Doesn't sound like it's me.

I apologize for going off track here, but I hate it when folks attribute things to me that simply aren't true. I will admit that after decades of wearing neckties, I don't particularly care to wear them today; however, I don't care in the least whether someone else wants to wear one. After all, I wore them all those years surrounded by others not wearing them. Why would it bother me if I weren't wearing one today and was surrounded by other guys wearing them? It wouldn't, but the truth is that I would probably be wearing a tie if everyone else was. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## MicTester (Oct 8, 2009)

Academia, more than most other professions, lets one get away with quite a lot if one is delivering the publications. No school wants to lose a citation magnet because of the color of his bandana.

Anyway, my point is that, the less you fit in, the higher the bar. But, if you cross that bar, you have it your way. 

And your way, in my opinion, should be the spirit of much of what goes on around here. A thoughtful consideration of the fact that it matters a whole lot when we care how we present ourselves.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

williamson: I will wear an ascot or scarf from now on if my exposed collarbone is that revolting to you.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> ...Personally I don't care one way or the other whether men wear neckties or not. At age 61 I'm semi-retired and currently wear a tie about a half dozen times a year, if that much. But having said that, I wore a coat and tie to work every day for over three decades. For the majority of that period of time I wasn't required to do so. In fact, I could have worn jeans if I had wanted. Instead I chose to wear a coat and tie in an office of about 100 men where perhaps ten other guys wore ties. Here is a picture of me with my boss at work one day back in the late 70's. I'm the guy in the coat and tie. You can see how my co-workers were dressing.


I'm sorry, but what you say in the first sentence I have quoted is not the impression I get from your postings; you seem always to be reminding readers of the tieless "option" even if you're not advocating nor praising it. If this impression is wrong, I apologise - and I must say that you look fine in the photograph. 
I was a teacher for 36 years and wore jacket and tie daily all that time. Probably up till about 1980 not wearing a tie might have been remarked on; by the time I retired I was the only one apart from the Principal who did wear a tie. But I am more than 10 years older than you, _i.e._ of a pre-baby-boomer generation, and have always been bewildered by their sartorial ideas. In the UK, the tieless-but jacketed look was around in the immediate post-war period and then again (briefly) in the early 1970s, but during the period when my generation's stylistic awareness was formed it was very much frowned on. The 1990s seem to have produced incongruous mixes of casual and formal, and possibly the current tieless-but-jacketed look partly stems from that. 


> ...a Gallup Poll a couple of years ago that showed only a tiny percentage of American men wear ties these days.


While I'd like to know the precise question asked, I must accept this finding, but with caveats. Firstly, this is one country, not the whole western world; secondly, people say what they think they should say to opinion pollsters more often than one might think - the result of the UK parliamentary election of 1992 was quite different from the one given by the exit polls.


> ...when folks attribute things to me that simply aren't true.


Again, if this is what I have done, I apologise.


> williamson: I will wear an ascot or scarf from now on if my exposed collarbone is that revolting to you. (Jovan)


Open-necked shirts are fine by me without anything over them and under a jumper. But I have already risked outstaying my welcome on this forum by stating very many times that it is the tieless-but-jacketed look which I dislike so much.


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## Douglas Brisbane Gray (Jun 7, 2010)

Jacket without a tie, absolute shower.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Douglas Brisbane Gray said:


> Jacket without a tie, absolute shower.


Must get that jacket!


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## wpking (Jul 13, 2010)

Love that combo.


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## Master-Classter (Jan 22, 2009)

Look at what NYRanger wears. He's a prof at a junior school but personally I think he balances the dressed up ('im the boss') with casual ('im approachable') look quite well. 

Now I'd still change a few things since his look is a little "urban NYC" IMO, but I think it's a good starting point.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Master-Classter said:


> Look at what NYRanger wears. He's a prof at a junior school but personally I think he balances the dressed up (I'm the boss') with casual (I'm approachable') look quite well.


I agree wholeheartedly - he's got the balance right forn the classroom and looks good.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

williamson: I think it was obvious that I was kidding, but I am curious if wearing an ascot (such as the gentlemen pictured above) is any better in your eyes.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Jovan said:


> williamson: I think it was obvious that I was kidding, but I am curious if wearing an ascot (such as the gentlemen pictured above) is any better in your eyes.


I don't like ascots (= cravats in British/European English) but the one pictured is a caricature of one just as the wearer is a caricature of a particular English social class.
Probably I'd have to accept the open-necked shirt as the lesser of two evils!


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## DPC3 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thank you for all the responses! I was thinking back on it and I only remember one of my professors in my education through a masters that wore a jacket to teach class in. He always wore varieties of tweed, which I though looked quite sharp and dignified. My question is, I have only gone to Catholic Universities for my two degrees, none of them were research institutions. I will continue my education at a Catholic University. From some of the comments it seems the tier of the University might have something to do with the way people dress. I remember one of my fully tenured philosophy professors lecturing wearing graphic tees with beers commercials on them. Although even as an undergraduate I wore BB Polos and BB Khakis I was in the minority. After graduating I treated myself to an upgrade to BB sports shirts. I usually wear these with Khakis, but throw some wool trousers in the mix sometimes. I was thinking higher degree, higher style, but I guess not. As further information my masters was in Project Management and I will be doing research in my doctorate on teaching, creating, and developing Project Management Methodologies. I hope that the classes I will teach will be in Project Management. My doctorate will actually be an EDD in Organizational Leadership. Thanks for the responses.
-DPC3


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## DPC3 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thank you for all the responses! I was thinking back on it and I only remember one of my professors in my education through a masters that wore a jacket to teach class in. He always wore varieties of tweed, which I though looked quite sharp and dignified. My question is, I have only gone to Catholic Universities for my two degrees, none of them were research institutions. I will continue my education at a Catholic University. From some of the comments it seems the tier of the University might have something to do with the way people dress. I remember one of my fully tenured philosophy professors lecturing wearing graphic tees with beers commercials on them. Although even as an undergraduate I wore BB Polos and BB Khakis I was in the minority. After graduating I treated myself to an upgrade to BB sports shirts. I usually wear these with Khakis, but throw some wool trousers in the mix sometimes. I was thinking higher degree, higher style, but I guess not. As further information my masters was in Project Management and I will be doing research in my doctorate on teaching, creating, and developing Project Management Methodologies. I hope that the classes I will teach will be in Project Management. My doctorate will actually be an EDD in Organizational Leadership. Thanks for the responses.
-DPC3


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## Douglas Brisbane Gray (Jun 7, 2010)

williamson said:


> I don't like ascots (= cravats in British/European English) but the one pictured is a caricature of one just as the wearer is a caricature of a particular English social class.
> Probably I'd have to accept the open-necked shirt as the lesser of two evils!


I am glad you knew Terry Thomas was acting the role of a caricature. Which he did very well.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

When I wear a tweed jacket I often hear I look "like a professor". But this thread teaches me the falsehood of that characterization. Really whenever someone is wearing a t-shirt and jeans, we should say, "Ah -- going for the professor look I see."


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Joe, like usual you are spot on. :icon_smile_big:


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Joe Beamish said:


> When I wear a tweed jacket I often hear I look "like a professor". But this thread teaches me the falsehood of that characterization. Really whenever someone is wearing a t-shirt and jeans, we should say, "Ah -- going for the professor look I see."


:icon_smile_big:

I will concede that more than 43 years have passed since I began my freshman year of college; however, I really don't remember there being any one particular style of dress for the teachers. Some wore three piece suits while others wore jeans. Most of the latter were the younger faculty members, although whenever any of the older faculty members adopted the casual look with the requisite long hair the students seemed to flock to them. I suppose that was just indicative of the times.

I also don't remember there being any correlation between how they dressed and how well they performed in the classroom. There were good and bad in all camps.

Cruiser


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Indeed, there isn't much of a correlation. :icon_smile_big:


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

^^ I wonder if this look would get better teaching ratings.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

The sad truth is that most college students would find that look "fuddy duddy" today. Donald Sutherland's character was casual enough to appeal to the youth in 1978.

Worth noting that his corduroy three piece suit would be a pretty rare sight in 1962, the year the movie takes place.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

The hair style and clothing are more 1978 than 1962, I agree.


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## KevinP (Nov 26, 2012)

Ok, this is an old thread, but I wasn't around this forum when it was current.

I work at a Korean university and am the only non-Korean tenured professor here. Tenure is different here: if you're lucky enough to get such a position, you're basically hired with it but still have to publish to ascend the promotional ladder and get the accompanying pay raises. 

Being the only non-Korean, I probably have a greater degree of freedom, but, that said, there is a large degree of freedom anyway. There are some professors I've never seen without suit and tie and (a few) others I've never once seen in such.

I've generally dressed nicely for my classes (suit with, or occcasionally without, tie, sports jacket with tie, sports jacket with turtleneck, etc.) but recently have ramped it up a bit, paying more attention to how I dress, hanging out on this forum to find out more, etc. The recent change is a midlife expression following the realisation that what once looked good on me doesn't anymore, and also being old enough to pull off styles I couldn't have before (fobs, ascots, bow ties, etc.)

Ultimately, I'm glad to have this freedom, especially if I'm in a bit of an experimental phase now. I can literally wear anything less than a tuxedo, down to jeans and t-shirt, and not be asked about it. But although I often had profs who wore shorts when I was studying in the US and New Zealand, I've never seen that here.

Still, it can be difficult to find the right balance for new professors. I recall when I was teaching classes as part of my MA. I was terrified that my students would find out I was a student too so I never wanted to dress like one. I almost always wore a sports jacket at least. You do want to dress respectfully and still be approachable, and least until you're old enough that 'approachable' starts to look silly.  Within that context, dress for what looks good on you and what doesn't stand you too far apart from the others. I used to have a habit of dressing more formally at the beginning of the semester and becoming more informal as the term went on. But now dressing up is too much fun for that.


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## weibaby (Oct 16, 2012)

dcahill3 said:


> I will be starting my doctorate program soon, and am curious what would be a good set of clothing either to move across to or upgrade to. The reason I ask is because I believe I will be teaching some classes as a part of my program. I am a project manager, and have a respectable wardrobe of sports coats, dress shirts, ties, and the like, but I also have some good business casual BB sports shirts and nice wool trousers. At the university that I am going to be attending in my experience I have never seen a professor wear a jacket, and many do not even wear sports shirts. I will be 31. What I would really like to do is go to what I think would be traditional professor clothes and get some tweed jackets from Brooks Brothers. What do you think is appropriate? I live in Minneapolis, and I usually am the best dressed wherever I go. Thank you in Advance.
> -DPC3


I am a college student in a renowned public university in CA, my male engineering professor is always dressing a forest green/navy velvet blazer, a dark colored button down shirt with jeans and oxford, usually no ties.


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