# The Trad Lifestyle: Does the Car Make the Man?



## irsky (Apr 2, 2013)

Perhaps this might be a bit off topic, or possibly even misplaced, but seeing as I am a young man searching for his first car, and just generally interested in automobiles, I can no longer let my curiosity sit. 

So with that preface, I present my question. What car do you drive? Do you link your car to your dress at all? And on a more jovial note, what is the "penultimate" trad/"prep" car (if it even exists)?

Feel free to post pictures, critique, etc. etc.


----------



## mayostard (Mar 10, 2013)

try this thread: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?132448-Most-Trad-Car-of-all-time


----------



## Hayek (Jun 20, 2006)

Not really. I don't own a car and don't have much of a desire to own one. Most of the people in my demographic (young city dwellers) seem to be of the same opinion. Zipcar, rental cars, plus the occasional friend with a car is enough.


----------



## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

Seeing as you are in Georgia, I believe you can well appreciate the Jeep Wrangler. Take off the doors and you've got the ultimate campus cruiser.


----------



## TsAr (Mar 21, 2013)

TradThrifter said:


> Seeing as you are in Georgia, I believe you can well appreciate the Jeep Wrangler. Take off the doors and you've got the ultimate campus cruiser.


Ditto...


----------



## jddillard3 (Jun 7, 2013)

As a Jeep Wrangler owner from metro Atlanta and now living much farther south, I would advise making sure you purchase one with A/C if you plan on wearing OCBDs and Blazers. Nothing very "trad" about showing up with sweat stains.


----------



## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

Oh man, not this can of worms. Many here would probably say a beat up 80s Volvo, but personally I don't see the appeal. I wouldn't limit myself based on what some strangers on the internet consider "preppy," etc. If your area of GA is anything like it is out here, just get a Z71 pickup, a tahoe, or any Jeep. Preppy? Likely not. Useful? You bet.


----------



## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

TradThrifter said:


> Seeing as you are in Georgia, I believe you can well appreciate the Jeep Wrangler. Take off the doors and you've got the ultimate campus cruiser.


Could not agree with this more. I own two Jeep Wranglers one of which is a 1994 with 160k miles on it that was left to me by my father. It is a tank, other than some minor transmission issues it has been a joy to own. Starts up first try every time. The other is much newer and the 4 door model to accommodate my wife, and potential family. If you do make a decision to go with the Jeep Wrangler the only caution I would give you is to stay away from soft top models. The soft top does have a life expectancy, and should be replaced around the same time you replace your tires which can be a big expense.


----------



## adoucett (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm a younger guy as well. My car (A Subaru) fits my interests. Going road biking? Throw it in the back. Going skiing with snow on the roads? Four wheel drive. 

If I drove a 2 door MG this wouldn't work so well.


----------



## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Clothing I select primarily for its appearance on the hoof. Cars I select primarily for the driving experience (tempered by economic considerations). I don't have any overlap in my criteria for the two.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

MaxBuck said:


> Clothing I select primarily for its appearance on the hoof. Cars I select primarily for the driving experience (tempered by economic considerations). I don't have any overlap in my criteria for the two.


^ This! A car is a tool. Clothes make a personal statement.


----------



## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> ^ This! A car is a tool. Clothes make a personal statement.


I'm sure, somewhere on a car forum, there's someone wearing cheap, square-toed Kenneth Coles posting pictures of the new Italian calfskin interior in his car while other members comment on the handsewn quality evident in the slight irregularity of the stitching. Everything we own makes a personal statement about us, even if that statement is "I don't care about this particular item." Since our young OP has stated that he is interested in automobiles, I'd say he's looking for more than just a tool (ah, to be young and carefree!).

I'd second the Wrangler advice and throw in an XJ Cherokee as an option for a bit less flash without sacrificing much utility. Though the newest model is now over ten years old, they're well-built, parts are cheap and maintenance is easy. Extra points will be awarded if you get it in Wagoneer trim:


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

We owned two Cherokees. I rolled one and walked away with a bruised and scraped knee. That's why I bought a second. Great tools . . . with a bit of style.:wink2:


----------



## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

I'll agree that purchasing a car solely for fashion's sake is a bad mistake. My style has changed a great deal since I purchased my car three years ago, but I'm not going to go trading in just because I wear ocbd's and chinos now. Frugality is king.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

A car that's attractive to _you_ and functions well is what you want. To some of us, Trad is just a clothing style, not a breed of dog, make/model of car, or choice of food. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

I've had "trad" ('87 Wrangler, 3-series wagon) and un-trad cars (F150, 4Runner), but what I figured out is exactly what Sarge notes: cars are tools. I drive a Prius now. Yeah, it looks just like every other tree-hugging, blue state transplant in DC's Prius, but there's a reason everyone drives 'em and it ain't cause they're pretty. I don't have leather or a 6-speed manual, or RWD, etc, but what I do have is a durable, cost-effective vehicle that is capable of transporting myself and lots of gear anywhere I need to go, that still fits in small parking spaces. There are a dozen other car models that fit this bill for me, I just bought the best deal I could find. 

If you want to get really into it, consider that most associate the trad lifestyle with a miserly one. So your grandma has a 1988 Buick LeSabre but she is willing to let you have it because she doesn't drive anymore? Yeah, that's the trad car for you.

Hayek: Of course, I don't know your experience, but my experience as a young urban professional here is that most people I meet without cars wish they had a car. Then again, I do a lot of things on a weekly basis outside the city/metro area that my friends aren't always in synch with - volunteering, fishing, visiting family, etc - which would cost me a fortune to use ZipCar for. Also, driving around friends without cars is the pits ("So... you mind if we make a quick stop at Costco?"). 

That said, you can always tell who's riding a bike for exercise/enjoyment and who's riding a bike because they don't have a car.


----------



## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

The vehicle is a "standalone". I consider cargo space, and a bit more performance than I'm normally going to need, just in case. Something like a Subaru Outback, or one of the Jeep Cherokee AWD models should fit the bill just fine. Nicely finished enough for out on the town, bad weather capability, and room enough for those awkward things (e.g., new lawn mower, flat screen TV) that just don't fit in trunks.


----------



## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Jovan said:


> To some of us, Trad is just a clothing style, not a breed of dog, make/model of car, or choice of food. :icon_smile_big:


After several years on this forum, I still don't understand everyone clinging to the "it's just a clothing style!" mantra. I'm sure it's purely coincidence that so many members:

-sail
-hunt/shoot
-fly fish
-hike
-camp
-wet shave
-own (a) dog(s)
-are into horses
-own oriental rugs
-have attended college
-ride bicycles
-are audiophiles
-like gin, whisky and cigars
-like fountain pens
-like mechanical watches
-play golf
-play lacrosse
-play ice hockey
-attend college football games
-etc. etc. etc.

Clothing may not be the factor that drives all other decisions, but it can't exist outside the context of our lives either. We dress FOR occasions and activities, not the other way around. If we don't have the majority of those occasions and activities in common, then what is driving what?


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Uh, I wouldn't call that list particularly Trad. I fail to see what it has to do with either attendance at an Ivy League college or the desire to have done so. A list of activities frequent among well-educated, relatively affluent men, it is. Trad? Not so much.

But I'm still focusing on the idea that Trad is a way of dressing rather than a 'Lifestyle' (terrible word/concept). YMMV and I admit that possibly once or twice in my life I've been wrong.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

The only thing driving my affection for the style is that I think it looks good. Just my opinion. Signing off.


----------



## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> Uh, I wouldn't call that list particularly Trad. I fail to see what it has to do with either attendance at an Ivy League college or the desire to have done so. A list of activities frequent among well-educated, relatively affluent men, it is. Trad? Not so much.
> 
> But I'm still focusing on the idea that Trad is a way of dressing rather than a 'Lifestyle' (terrible word/concept). YMMV and I admit that possibly once or twice in my life I've been wrong.





Jovan said:


> The only thing driving my affection for the style is that I think it looks good. Just my opinion. Signing off.


My point is that clothing doesn't/shouldn't exist in a vacuum. The list wasn't meant to define a trad "lifestyle" but rather to show that lifestyles dictate dress. And if we all subscribe to, basically, the same style, wouldn't it make sense that we have similarities in other aspects of our lives?


----------



## Pale_Male (May 20, 2013)

hardline_42 said:


> My point is that clothing doesn't/shouldn't exist in a vacuum. The list wasn't meant to define a trad "lifestyle" but rather to show that lifestyles dictate dress. And if we all subscribe to, basically, the same style, wouldn't it make sense that we have similarities in other aspects of our lives?


It's rather doubtful that a Beverly Hills gynecologist who drives a pricey and flashy Mercedes would be seen in a 20-year-old Press sack suit.


----------



## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

To me there is a separation of "trad" and utility. I drive a Grand Cherokee. It gets me around. I got it because I spend a sizable amount of time on roads which are in disrepair (such as old mountain roads). I did not buy it because it matched my "trad" clothing.

A trad car is such that it gets you around. If I owned a Jeep Wagoneer or a Mercedes, it is nothing to do with how I dress. One can only apply the trad concept to a very limited group of items. I would prefer to buy a car based on utility (I have had two Buick Century cars and a Saturn) than on some bizarre concept that my car is linked to a trad ethos.


----------



## irsky (Apr 2, 2013)

Oh boy...I did not mean to re-ignite several dormant debates! Reading my original post again, I realize that my language was sort of misleading. In all actuality, I could care less about whether or not the car itself is considered trad/preppy/fratty, etc. Since I'm in the south, fitting in would be driving something like the aforementioned Wranglers (which I love, but my mom is not so keen on...had a few friends die in one :frown, 4Runners, trucks, the list goes on. Personally, I have more of a taste for things that are considered more classic. I would not particularly fancy driving a super new looking car. In all honesty, I will accept driving just about anything right now (5 months with my license and still no car  ), but would prefer something that I am happy with. I suppose if I had to compile a list of cars that I am partial to, it'd be:
-early 90's BMW 3-series
-mid 2000's Volvo s60
-any year Wrangler's
-3rd gen 4Runners
-late model Cherokee's
-Silverado z71's
-2004 and newer F150
-1996-2002 Toyota Land Cruisers
-Older Lexus LX's
Those are cars that I find attractive, and that are popular down here. Trad admittedly hearkens back to Northeastern Ivy League attire more than Southern "prep" wear. Oh well. Is it a venerable list?


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Just my opinion, but for me the Trad ethos is more about function than form; when focused on clothes, more about style, comfort and durability than flash and fashion. Trad or not, the right vehicle is really nothing more than a means of going from point A to point B, safely, comfortably, reliably and economically...in that general order of priority! Through the years I've been rather fond of Ford pick-up trucks, but I also really enjoy our SRX. Must be an indication that the Trad and the Hillbilly in me are at odds over the transportation thing?


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I have great affection for F150's and drove one for . . . a damned long time! Now I drive a Freestyle because it hauls around my lumber and garden stuff, friends when necessary (or at least more friends than will fit in the Escape hybrid), takes me cross country @27+mpg and I can sleep in the back if needed. However, next car will probably go back to a truck. Probably a Tahoe unless Ford brings back the Ranger. Yeah, function, function, function.


----------



## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Trad isn't a lifestyle. It's a general, and somewhat loosely-defined, style of clothes.

It's a bit like the little "recommendation" things that you see on shopping - or movie, or music - websites. "People who liked this movie also liked ...." If the nexus of connections gets sufficiently dense and predictable, you have a genre. This works pretty well: if you liked "Sunset Boulevard," there's a good chance you'll like other noirish movies. Where it starts to get goofy is if the little recommendation thing starts saying, "People who liked this movie also liked Lindt chocolates." Sometimes - particularly with the help of lots of data and abundant computer processing power - there may even _be_ identifiable correlations like that. It doesn't follow that there's a film-noir-Lindt-chocolates "lifestyle." Of course, even if there's a correlation, there's going to a lot of data - probably _most_ of it - that doesn't fit (the "data" in this situation being actual human beings).

Given the tribal tendencies of people, they're more inclined to err on the side of seeing tribes/lifestyles/subcultures that aren't really there than the opposite. Indeed, one might argue it's a signficant source of strife. In the relatively minor and transitory realm: "You can't like punk rock if you don't wear torn clothes and spit at people." In what's possibly more serious instance: "You can't appreciate fiscal restraint if you're gay."


----------



## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

I drive an old Subaru Legacy wagon, I think a 98. It's functional for me because of the four wheel drive, as it snows in the winter here.

There are a lot of "tradly" cars. There's a Volvo 240d, the pre-1994 Saab 900, etc. If I had to pick one as the pinnacle it would be a Mercedes 300TD wagon in that washed-out yellow color.


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

End this debate and buy a mint D90 and call it a day. Everyone goes home happy, then.


----------



## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

We own two Subarus, which are good, practical vehicles for the conditions in Maine. They have a reputation as being popular among outdoors enthusiasts, and in Maine it is estimated that about 1 of 7 non-trucks on the road is a Subaru. 

Curiously, DownEast magazine, which is a glossy which covers the more upscale aspects of life in Vacationland ran an article on Subarus and their popularity in the state. One entertaining part of the piece remarked on how Subarus are particularly popular among lesbians. I'm still trying to reconcile my image issues and my small fleet. I mean, how can a Trad car be popular with lesbians. Are lesbians Trad. It's too much to rap my head around. Maybe I should get some Volvos.


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

xcubbies said:


> We own two Subarus, which are good, practical vehicles for the conditions in Maine. They have a reputation as being popular among outdoors enthusiasts, and in Maine it is estimated that about 1 of 7 non-trucks on the road is a Subaru.
> 
> Curiously, DownEast magazine, which is a glossy which covers the more upscale aspects of life in Vacationland ran an article on Subarus and their popularity in the state. One entertaining part of the piece remarked on how Subarus are particularly popular among lesbians. I'm still trying to reconcile my image issues and my small fleet. I mean, how can a Trad car be popular with lesbians. Are lesbians Trad. It's too much to rap my head around. Maybe I should get some Volvos.


Only the Forester


----------



## Pale_Male (May 20, 2013)

"You can't appreciate fiscal restraint if you're gay."

Or EVER vote Republican.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I realize this is all in jest but we are in danger of slipping into (shudder) politics . . . :crazy:


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Hayek said:


> Not really. I don't own a car and don't have much of a desire to own one. Most of the people in my demographic (young city dwellers) seem to be of the same opinion. Zipcar, rental cars, plus the occasional friend with a car is enough.


I agree I don't own a car at all, I've been taking public transportation for 27 years.


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

xcubbies said:


> We own two Subarus, which are good, practical vehicles for the conditions in Maine. They have a reputation as being popular among outdoors enthusiasts, and in Maine it is estimated that about 1 of 7 non-trucks on the road is a Subaru.
> 
> Curiously, DownEast magazine, which is a glossy which covers the more upscale aspects of life in Vacationland ran an article on Subarus and their popularity in the state. One entertaining part of the piece remarked on how Subarus are particularly popular among lesbians. I'm still trying to reconcile my image issues and my small fleet. I mean, how can a Trad car be popular with lesbians. Are lesbians Trad. It's too much to rap my head around. Maybe I should get some Volvos.


I realize how dangerous the topic is, but I can absolutely imagine lesbians being Trad. In fact, I think I've known a few. A lot of Trad is synonymous with North Eastern preppy aesthetics, among other things, and surely one can slot just about anyone into a certain cultural milieu, regardless of politics or sexuality. Being preppy and being X, Y, or Z are seldom exclusive. Remember, Trad is ultimately just a style. At most an aesthetic. For every Republican Trad icon, I can show you a Democrat Trad icon. I bet we could quickly put together a considerable roster of gay Trads. Trad is agnostic in most things beyond shoulder padding preferences.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

And Faire Isle sweaters.


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Oldsarge said:


> And Faire Isle sweaters.


Speaking of Gay Trad and Faire Isle sweaters:








By the way, how does one describe Mr. Capote's tie in this picture below. Polka dots? It's awesome. I want one in navy.

https://www.wikinoticia.com/images2...etdna-cdn.com/files/2013/01/Truman-Capote.jpg


----------



## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Or you can be like Chris Brown and get your $400,000 Lamborghini painted to match your $250 sneakers. 
In our terms... that is like getting a pair of John Lobbs dyed to match a Tommy Hilfiger belt.
https://music.yahoo.com/blogs/stop-the-presses/chris-brown-kicks-wheels-gotta-match-173532051.html


----------



## irsky (Apr 2, 2013)

Starch said:


> Given the tribal tendencies of people, they're more inclined to err on the side of seeing tribes/lifestyles/subcultures that aren't really there than the opposite. Indeed, one might argue it's a signficant source of strife. In the relatively minor and transitory realm: "You can't like punk rock if you don't wear torn clothes and spit at people." In what's possibly more serious instance: "You can't appreciate fiscal restraint if you're gay."


Correlation does not mean causation! Well said.


----------



## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Jovan said:


> A car that's attractive to _you_ and functions well is what you want. To some of us, Trad is just a clothing style, not a breed of dog, make/model of car, or choice of food. :icon_smile_big:


Thank you. I figuratively bite my tongue every time I see a "What is a Trad (Girlfriend, Dog, Car, etc.)" post.


----------



## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Jovan said:


> The only thing driving my affection for the style is that I think it looks good. Just my opinion. Signing off.


Good summary. Tacking all sorts of other stuff onto a clothing style is pointless, in my opinion.


Starch said:


> Trad isn't a lifestyle. It's a general, and somewhat loosely-defined, style of clothes.
> 
> It's a bit like the little "recommendation" things that you see on shopping - or movie, or music - websites. "People who liked this movie also liked ...." If the nexus of connections gets sufficiently dense and predictable, you have a genre. This works pretty well: if you liked "Sunset Boulevard," there's a good chance you'll like other noirish movies. Where it starts to get goofy is if the little recommendation thing starts saying, "People who liked this movie also liked Lindt chocolates." Sometimes - particularly with the help of lots of data and abundant computer processing power - there may even _be_ identifiable correlations like that. It doesn't follow that there's a film-noir-Lindt-chocolates "lifestyle." Of course, even if there's a correlation, there's going to a lot of data - probably _most_ of it - that doesn't fit (the "data" in this situation being actual human beings).
> 
> Given the tribal tendencies of people, they're more inclined to err on the side of seeing tribes/lifestyles/subcultures that aren't really there than the opposite.


Most people want to be told what to do (wear, think, listen to, drive, etc.) and many people are happy to step into that role and tell them what to do (wear, think, listen to, drive, etc.). As for those links that come from algorithims(sp), the insurance industry loves to generate all sorts of bizarre linkages (as dubious as Kissinger's linkages) to justify targeting another statistical minority for overcharging.


Oldsarge said:


> I have great affection for F150's and drove one for . . . a damned long time! Now I drive a Freestyle because it hauls around my lumber and garden stuff, friends when necessary (or at least more friends than will fit in the Escape hybrid), takes me cross country @27+mpg and I can sleep in the back if needed. However, next car will probably go back to a truck. Probably a Tahoe unless Ford brings back the Ranger. Yeah, function, function, function.


People should think long and hard about their vehicle choices. They really do affect your financial future. Unless, of course, you literally have money to burn.

Here's a great article for weekend warriors in their SUVs and white-collar workers in their pickup trucks:
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/04/its-never-too-late-to-ditch-your-gas-guzzler/


----------



## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

*Hayashida's take on the issue*

Hayashida's take on the issue


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Starch said:


> Trad isn't a lifestyle. It's a general, and somewhat loosely-defined, style of clothes.
> 
> It's a bit like the little "recommendation" things that you see on shopping - or movie, or music - websites. "People who liked this movie also liked ...." If the nexus of connections gets sufficiently dense and predictable, you have a genre. This works pretty well: if you liked "Sunset Boulevard," there's a good chance you'll like other noirish movies. Where it starts to get goofy is if the little recommendation thing starts saying, "People who liked this movie also liked Lindt chocolates." Sometimes - particularly with the help of lots of data and abundant computer processing power - there may even _be_ identifiable correlations like that. It doesn't follow that there's a film-noir-Lindt-chocolates "lifestyle." Of course, even if there's a correlation, there's going to a lot of data - probably _most_ of it - that doesn't fit (the "data" in this situation being actual human beings).
> 
> Given the tribal tendencies of people, they're more inclined to err on the side of seeing tribes/lifestyles/subcultures that aren't really there than the opposite. Indeed, one might argue it's a signficant source of strife. In the relatively minor and transitory realm: "You can't like punk rock if you don't wear torn clothes and spit at people." In what's possibly more serious instance: "You can't appreciate fiscal restraint if you're gay."





tocqueville said:


> I realize how dangerous the topic is, but I can absolutely imagine lesbians being Trad. In fact, I think I've known a few. A lot of Trad is synonymous with North Eastern preppy aesthetics, among other things, and surely one can slot just about anyone into a certain cultural milieu, regardless of politics or sexuality. Being preppy and being X, Y, or Z are seldom exclusive. Remember, Trad is ultimately just a style. At most an aesthetic. For every Republican Trad icon, I can show you a Democrat Trad icon. I bet we could quickly put together a considerable roster of gay Trads. Trad is agnostic in most things beyond shoulder padding preferences.





Steve Smith said:


> Thank you. I figuratively bite my tongue every time I see a "What is a Trad (Girlfriend, Dog, Car, etc.)" post.





Doctor Damage said:


> Good summary. Tacking all sorts of other stuff onto a clothing style is pointless, in my opinion.
> 
> Most people want to be told what to do (wear, think, listen to, drive, etc.) and many people are happy to step into that role and tell them what to do (wear, think, listen to, drive, etc.). As for those links that come from algorithims(sp), the insurance industry loves to generate all sorts of bizarre linkages (as dubious as Kissinger's linkages) to justify targeting another statistical minority for overcharging.
> 
> ...


While _intrinsically_ there's nothing wrong with wanting cars from a certain period driven by certain people, one must ultimately examine _why_ they want it and if it works for them in terms of maintenance, insurance costs, and so forth. If it's _only_ because there's a loose Trad association and not because you actually like the style, function, gas mileage, etc. it seems phony in the extreme. Like people who buy an Astin Martin because they think it'll instantly turn them into Sean Connery or Daniel Craig. (Though I'm sure, nice as their cars are, the company does not mind this line of thinking in their promotions.)

DD is right -- automobile purchases should not be made on one aspect alone. It's a lot of money and a serious decision.

My personal opinion: Some old cars are beautiful, no doubt, but I'd much prefer they had modern features and a hybrid engine.


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Doctor Damage said:


> Good summary. Tacking all sorts of other stuff onto a clothing style is pointless, in my opinion.
> 
> Most people want to be told what to do (wear, think, listen to, drive, etc.) and many people are happy to step into that role and tell them what to do (wear, think, listen to, drive, etc.). As for those links that come from algorithims(sp), the insurance industry loves to generate all sorts of bizarre linkages (as dubious as Kissinger's linkages) to justify targeting another statistical minority for overcharging.
> 
> ...


Interesting read (and comforting, too), but having shopped for hybrids myself, I hope no one reads this and runs out to buy an old Honda Insight. Honda has had some serious trouble keeping their Civic and Insight hybrids on the road because the traction batteries are always giving out - a cool $3000+ repair. I think he gets his gas mileage numbers from random internet sources, as well. Not very many cars rated at 35mpg highway really achieve that sort of mileage with the average Joe behind the wheel, driving like he would any other car, and it is really exaggerated in a hybrid.


----------



## GITU (Mar 12, 2009)

I have an Audi A6 Avant with a 3.0T engine. It's an absolute blast to drive, very comfortable and very high tech. I highly recommend Audis, but that's just my preference and we all have ours...


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Tilton said:


> Interesting read (and comforting, too), but having shopped for hybrids myself, I hope no one reads this and runs out to buy an old Honda Insight. Honda has had some serious trouble keeping their Civic and Insight hybrids on the road because the traction batteries are always giving out - a cool $3000+ repair. I think he gets his gas mileage numbers from random internet sources, as well. Not very many cars rated at 35mpg highway really achieve that sort of mileage with the average Joe behind the wheel, driving like he would any other car, and it is really exaggerated in a hybrid.


Learning how to drive a hybrid is critical as is the time of year. Your mileage improves as the weather cools and vice versa. My wife loves her Escape hybrid and averages between 34 and 38 mpg simply because we've figured out that you can 'kick' it into electric drive by keeping below 40 mph. I expect that other varieties have similar quirks.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I want a full electric car, in all honesty, but given the um... quality of my current Chevy, I'm not in any hurry to purchase a Volt. However, good on them for producing the fastest selling car in a long time.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Wait 'til this thing hits the showrooms!


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Oldsarge said:


> Learning how to drive a hybrid is critical as is the time of year. Your mileage improves as the weather cools and vice versa. My wife loves her Escape hybrid and averages between 34 and 38 mpg simply because we've figured out that you can 'kick' it into electric drive by keeping below 40 mph. I expect that other varieties have similar quirks.


I haven't driven an Escape hybrid, but I imagine it is a lot more gas than electric compared to the compact hybrids - I kick into electric almost any time I am not accelerating, so a pulse-and-glide driving style keeps me in a higher electric-to-gas ratio. Also of note is that generally with a hybrid (and definitely with a Prius), just like a regular fuel injected engine, the warmer the weather, the better the fuel economy. When it gets up to 90ish, I'm getting 47+ on my city commute and 52+ on the highway without even trying. When that temp drops below 45 or so, I get around 38-40mpg on my commute, 45 hwy unless I block the grill and drive for economy.


----------



## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Tilton said:


> I haven't driven an Escape hybrid, but I imagine it is a lot more gas than electric compared to the compact hybrids - I kick into electric almost any time I am not accelerating, so a pulse-and-glide driving style keeps me in a higher electric-to-gas ratio. Also of note is that generally with a hybrid (and definitely with a Prius), just like a regular fuel injected engine, the warmer the weather, the better the fuel economy. When it gets up to 90ish, I'm getting 47+ on my city commute and 52+ on the highway without even trying. When that temp drops below 45 or so, I get around 38-40mpg on my commute, 45 hwy unless I block the grill and drive for economy.


You sound like a hypermiling ecomodder :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Too much effort to save a couple bucks a week, usually.


----------



## thegovteach (Dec 2, 2012)

No, it is not. I live in a part of the country in which everyone drives a pick-up truck. My doctor drives a F-250 truck. My lawyer drives a Chevrolet Silverado truck. My minister drives a Dodge Ram. I drive a Honda Element, and not for the reason you think, until I fell off my house doing work on my chimney, and hurt my back, I drove a truck. The Element, while ugly, is built on an Accord frame and serves the purpose of the truck with the back seats out....and doesn't kill my back...


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Definitely not. My wife drives across the Basin five mornings a week through L.A. traffic. Being able to coast along on battery saves a heck of a lot more than a couple of bucks a week . . . and doesn't add to the air pollution, either.


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Oldsarge said:


> Definitely not. My wife drives across the Basin five mornings a week through L.A. traffic. Being able to coast along on battery saves a heck of a lot more than a couple of bucks a week . . . and doesn't add to the air pollution, either.


That's not really hypermiling, just driving efficiently. Hypermiling takes a lot more effort and time than just letting off the gas to switch into electric mode. I commute through DC and in this city's traffic, it unquestionably takes longer to get to work by hypermile it. Hypermiling in an Escape Hybrid would be more like 44-60mpg across the whole tank, and usually involves some aftermarket modifications and a significant modification to your driving style. Say your wife's commute is 40mi round trip and gas is $3.75/gal. EPA rates her car at 32mpg, she gets 38. That's about $0.75 savings per day, $4.25/week.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Ah! I didn't realize hypermiling was a real word. Thanx for the clarification. Yes, it would take a lot of driving to make up for the modifications, I suspect.


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Oldsarge said:


> Ah! I didn't realize hypermiling was a real word. Thanx for the clarification. Yes, it would take a lot of driving to make up for the modifications, I suspect.


I would probably think so. Time is another issue - being able to leave 15min later every morning and not having to think about that stuff while I'm driving is easily worth the price. I think the whole hypermile community is less about the savings and more about a) the glory and b) the environment.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

The reason being the glory and the excuse being the environment.:devil:


----------



## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Tilton said:


> I would probably think so. Time is another issue - being able to leave 15min later every morning and not having to think about that stuff while I'm driving is easily worth the price. I think the whole hypermile community is less about the savings and more about a) the glory and b) the environment.


There are also the folks who install hour meters in their diesel vehicles, who are fanatical about the durability and mileage of those vehicles. Car enthusiasts come in many stripes nowadays, and "high performance" has many definitions!


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Yup. That's why I consider the car a tool. 'High performance' is too complicated for my non-mechanical mind. I've got other things to be obsessive about. :redface:


----------



## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> Ah! I didn't realize hypermiling was a real word. Thanx for the clarification. Yes, it would take a lot of driving to make up for the modifications, I suspect.


Tilton pretty much cleared it up already, but hypermiling is a driving style that involves certain fuel-saving driving techniques that the general driving public considers annoying and/or unsafe like pulse and glide (accelerate, coast, repeat), driving 5 to 10 miles below the speed limit, and EOC ("engine off coasting"). For those who are obsessed with wringing every last inch out of a tank, it's not too much trouble, but the average driver probably gets the most benefit just by switching from a gas hungry SUV to a more modern car that gets 30 mpgs and up.

Personally, I spend so much time on the road that the "enjoyment" factor (whether it be performance-related or not) is important to me. My Volvo wagon gets about 23 mpg but I demand RWD and I like it's boxy looks and styling (plenty of other "practical" benefits, too). I make up for the lowish mpg by riding my bike on the weekends and motorcycle commuting when weather allows (thinking about switching to year round mc-commuting). I can get 55 mpg and all of the fun my throttle hand can muster :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Galt (Oct 4, 2008)

The OP asked... "what is the "penultimate" trad/"prep" car (if it even exists)?"

I apologize in advance because really I hate when people pick on someone's word choice or grammar in a post, especially when it is completely unrelated to the topic. And, chances are, I'll make some grammatical errors in this post. However, "penultimate" is one of my favorite words, and it is commonly misused as a synonym for the phrase "the ultimate," or "the best." Penultimate actually means second to last. For example if Henry finished the race in last place and John finished 2nd to last, then John would be the penultimate runner. I completely realize that no one cares. So, sorry for the English lesson, but penultimate is a great word when used correctly.

As for the cars, I have always been a Volvo driver. I don't think a car makes the man, but it can certainly make him more comfortable (and safe).


----------



## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

xcubbies said:


> We own two Subarus, which are good, practical vehicles for the conditions in Maine. They have a reputation as being popular among outdoors enthusiasts, and in Maine it is estimated that about 1 of 7 non-trucks on the road is a Subaru. QUOTE]
> 
> They are good, practical vehicles for the conditions in Colorado, too. Yesterday, I bought my fifth new Subaru from the same dealer, a locally-owned business that understands the market in this university/retirement community very well. I'm dubious about the "trad lifestyle" beyond some aspects of clothing, but Subarus reflect the absence of ostentation, durability and practicality that one finds (increasingly less) in some iconic trad clothing brands. My own experience over the past twenty-five years is that Subaru products have been much more consistent and trustworthy than, for instance, Brooks Brothers or LL Bean products.


----------



## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Galt said:


> The OP asked... "what is the "penultimate" trad/"prep" car (if it even exists)?"
> 
> I apologize in advance because really I hate when people pick on someone's word choice or grammar in a post, especially when it is completely unrelated to the topic. And, chances are, I'll make some grammatical errors in this post. However, "penultimate" is one of my favorite words, and it is commonly misused as a synonym for the phrase "the ultimate," or "the best." Penultimate actually means second to last. For example if Henry finished the race in last place and John finished 2nd to last, then John would be the penultimate runner. I completely realize that no one cares. So, sorry for the English lesson, but penultimate is a great word when used correctly.


Good post, and appropriate.

In the same vein, I have just about given up on the misuse of "shirting" and "suiting" here and on SF. "Shirting" and "suiting" are the "tarmac" of the clothing enthusiast world. Misuse them long enough and the definition changes.


----------



## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Galt said:


> The OP asked... "what is the "penultimate" trad/"prep" car (if it even exists)?"
> 
> I apologize in advance because really I hate when people pick on someone's word choice or grammar in a post, especially when it is completely unrelated to the topic. And, chances are, I'll make some grammatical errors in this post. However, "penultimate" is one of my favorite words, and it is commonly misused as a synonym for the phrase "the ultimate," or "the best." Penultimate actually means second to last. For example if Henry finished the race in last place and John finished 2nd to last, then John would be the penultimate runner. I completely realize that no one cares. So, sorry for the English lesson, but penultimate is a great word when used correctly.




Given all the talk of Subarus and hybrids, I assumed that folks really were describing the penultimate vehicle. :icon_smile_wink:

While others disagree, I do find some vehicles more "trad" than others. My garage includes an '82 320i and an '85 300td (formerly driven by Dad and Mom, respectively), but my Wrangler and Sierra 2500HD get the nod the vast majority of the time. Jeeps are clearly "trad." Trucks may not be "trad," but I can assure you that they are "Texas trad."


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

A West Coast Surfer Dude Trad car would be a woodie, if said Trad had made it big, or a VW microbus.


----------



## Galt (Oct 4, 2008)

smujd said:


> Given all the talk of Subarus and hybrids, I assumed that folks really were describing the penultimate vehicle. :icon_smile_wink:"


... nice


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Body styles change with such regularity that it is very difficult to find a "timeless" auto design -- even Jeeps and Beetles have been re-designed.

Your best bet would probably be to filter by country of manufacture. Asking if it is made in the U.K., Germany, France, or union-made in the U.S. (not just whether it is a U.S., U.K., German, or French brand) will narrow the field quite a bit, I imagine. 

For instance, as far as I can tell, there are no British-owned, British-manufactured autos still in mass-production; all that seem to be left are the hand-built luxury makers, British brands that manufacture somewhere else, and foreign brands that manufacture in the UK. I would be surprised if there were any auto importers in the U.S. who still try to do what they did in the 60s, selling British-made sportscars to young men who wanted to be playboys. :biggrin2:


Union-made mass-produced U.S. autos are still a possibility (the UAW actually provides a helpful list: ) and I hear it's still possible to find German-owned, German-manufactured cars with a little bit of digging (be sure to check the VIN number).


----------



## mrfixit (Dec 30, 2012)

i'm going with jeep wagoneer



Jovan said:


> I want a full electric car, in all honesty, but given the um... quality of my current Chevy, I'm not in any hurry to purchase a Volt. However, good on them for producing the fastest selling car in a long time.


uhhh, tesla???


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

mrfixit said:


> i'm going with jeep wagoneer
> 
> uhhh, tesla???


I have some reservations about their reliability as well.


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

For some reason I also suspect the $65,000 base price tag has as much to do with the number you see on the road as the reliability.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I think more than anything, I'm waiting for electric car technology (whether or not it has the Volt's ability to power the battery by gas in a pinch) to be better tested and more reliable overall.


----------



## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

There's enough experience with Teslas at least to suggest that they're reasonably reliable. The Roadsters have been driving around for five years: some battery issues, but my understanding is they were resolved. The price tag is a major issue (and it was, at least initially, a _lot_ more than $65,000 for the Roadster). The range limitation rules it out as a primary family car for most families, I think. The price makes it hard to justify as a supplemental in-town-only commuter for all but a niche market of what I guess we're now calling "one percenters."


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I think you can narrow it even further . . . eco-snobs. That's people who _could_ drive a Prius but prefer to flaunt both their money and their environmental credentials.


----------



## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Starch said:


> There's enough experience with Teslas at least to suggest that they're reasonably reliable. The Roadsters have been driving around for five years: some battery issues, but my understanding is they were resolved. The price tag is a major issue (and it was, at least initially, a _lot_ more than $65,000 for the Roadster). The range limitation rules it out as a primary family car for most families, I think. The price makes it hard to justify as a supplemental in-town-only commuter for all but a niche market of what I guess we're now calling "one percenters."


The $65,000 figure is for the absolute base-model S.


----------

