# Shorts in the city....



## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

So, I was at a cocktail party here in Boston tonight; and there were a few people in shorts; which was a bit odd because it's not THAT hot out and most peeps were coming from work. 

I'm not sure I would normally notice such a thing but I did; and it occurred to me suddenly that I wouldn't be wearing shorts even if it were 95 deg. out. 

Why? Well, because I'm in a city. But that's a bit strange; why should being in a city make any difference? But to me it does; but I'm not sure why. Now, I'm a bit of a weirdo anyway: I've never worn blue jeans; I wear a tie pretty much whenever I'm not exercising, et cetera. 

Is my sense (obtained, I think, just from watching other people in my family and beyond) that wearing shorts in the city is verboten outside of an exercise environment completely unfounded, or anachronistic, or just an absurd preference I've picked up erroneously?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

When it's hot, I wear shorts. I don't care where I am.


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## swils8610 (Mar 12, 2016)

I wear chino shorts when it's warm out. I find them acceptable in casual settings. Sometimes with a golf shirt sometimes with a OCBD.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> When it's hot, I wear shorts. I don't care where I am.


This. 5"-7" inseams and no apologies from this guy.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I think the OP's difficulty is that he was in Boston. Everywhere else? If it's hot wear shorts for casual wear. Climate determines dress, not some archaic set of Rules.


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## swils8610 (Mar 12, 2016)

I'm not sure why Boston would sway anyone's decision. I've been to Boston many times and have worn shorts.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Let's be honest- this thread will do what every other shorts/jeans/sneakers thread does and attract the same group of posters that defend shorts and the same group of posters that hate shorts. We've been here before folks- my opinion won't change yours and your opinion won't change mine (not directed at OP, just a general blanket statement).

as I've said in the past- the humidity in Texas makes every piece of clothing stick to you, which calls for lighter fabrics and a lesser amount of fabric. Most of my summer is spent in shorts and a linen shirt. Also, my Patagonia Baggies (5") are some of my favorite pieces of clothing I own.


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## Searching_Best_Fit (Feb 11, 2015)

Califax said:


> So,* I was at a cocktail party here in Boston tonight; and there were a few people in shorts*; which was a bit odd because it's not THAT hot out and most peeps were coming from work....


So I highlighted the part where I think the OP is thinking in his way: cocktail party, people wearing shorts. Even if the party has not enforce any dress code, unless it is super relaxed party, one should dress at least with a pair of regular pants and collar shirt, or so I think..

No objection of wearing shorts given the right situation.


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## Color 8 (Sep 18, 2015)

If I want people to take me seriously, I don't wear shorts ; if it doesn't matter, then shorts are fine.
I feel exactly the same way about short-sleeved shirts.


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## Color 8 (Sep 18, 2015)

And yes, these are old-time _INNER-CITY_ city persons' rules -

"Short pants are for little kids." Also derogatory, akin to saying "Go get your f***ing shine box."

"Dungarees (jeans) are for farmers."
As in "Yo Farmer Brown, nice dungarees. Now go put some slacks on, I want to go shoot pool."

"No one over 18 needs a pair of sneakers."
Adults expend their energy on adult occupations, not kids' games. Obviously, if you never wear anything other than slacks once you are out of High School and no longer required to do athletics, when the hell are you going to wear sneakers ?

I might wear short pants to a happy hour at a tiki bar to drink mojitos or something, but that's not a _real_ (read: "city") bar or a _real_ "cocktail party" IMO :biggrin:.



Califax said:


> So, I was at a cocktail party here in Boston tonight; and there were a few people in shorts; which was a bit odd because it's not THAT hot out and most peeps were coming from work.
> 
> I'm not sure I would normally notice such a thing but I did; and it occurred to me suddenly that I wouldn't be wearing shorts even if it were 95 deg. out.
> 
> ...


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Searching_Best_Fit said:


> So I highlighted the part where I think the OP is thinking in his way: cocktail party, people wearing shorts. Even if the party has not enforce any dress code, unless it is super relaxed party, one should dress at least with a pair of regular pants and collar shirt, or so I think..
> 
> No objection of wearing shorts given the right situation.


Why should cocktail party matter? Let's assume no dress code, why SHOULD I wear slacks if it's hot and humid outside?

Don't get me wrong, I'd be more than happy to wear slacks if the evening is cooler but if it's hot and humid?


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

swils8610 said:


> I'm not sure why Boston would sway anyone's decision. I've been to Boston many times and have worn shorts.


Well in GENERAL (there are always exceptions), shorts identify a person as a tourist; as do sneakers.

I don't think it's just Boston; I live in NYC too and I would feel the same way seeing shorts there; and it's not just cocktail parties: walking the dog, food shopping, etc. would also seem strange. Virtually anything outside of exercising, really.

Anyway, interesting responses. Thanks.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

If they can wear shorts in the NBA why can't we wear shorts in Boston? They were good enough for Larry Bird. And we're not talking Bermuda shorts here. With knee socks. And regimental blazer.

On the other hand, I think we'd see many golf course records fall in PGA pros could wear shorts. But not cutoffs.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Color 8 said:


> And yes, these are old-time _INNER-CITY_ city persons' rules -
> 
> "Short pants are for little kids." Also derogatory, akin to saying "Go get your f***ing shine box."
> 
> ...


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Step out of Beantown and come down here to the stifling humidity of the southeast and see how long you stay in your buttoned-up attire. There are times when ties are appropriate. However, for any old cocktail party in the summer, you will find people looking at you strange if you are wearing long pants. As far as "most peeps were coming from work", trust me, many corporate people wear shorts here in the summer to work. It seems that comfort and productivity supersede image in many professional climates around here.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

orange fury said:


> Let's be honest- this thread will do what every other shorts/jeans/sneakers thread does and attract the same group of posters that defend shorts and the same group of posters that hate shorts. We've been here before folks- my opinion won't change yours and your opinion won't change mine (not directed at OP, just a general blanket statement).
> 
> as I've said in the past- the humidity in Texas makes every piece of clothing stick to you, which calls for lighter fabrics and a lesser amount of fabric. Most of my summer is spent in shorts and a linen shirt. Also, my Patagonia Baggies (5") are some of my favorite pieces of clothing I own.


My friend, you are absolutely spot-on with your assessment, but I've got to tell you, as one of the "wear shorts only for exercise crowd," a bit less than four months of living in this sub-tropical environment into which we relocated has substantially tempered my views of those wearing shorts regularly. Rumor has it that even I can be found wearing shorts occasionally while walking about the neighborhood! :redface:


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Califax said:


> Well in GENERAL (there are always exceptions), shorts identify a person as a tourist; as do sneakers.
> 
> I don't think it's just Boston; I live in NYC too and I would feel the same way seeing shorts there; and it's not just cocktail parties: walking the dog, food shopping, etc. would also seem strange. Virtually anything outside of exercising, really.
> 
> Anyway, interesting responses. Thanks.


So what if it identifies one as a tourist? Is that a sin or something to be ashamed of?

I live in Chicago which is as urbane as anywhere else, and in the summer, when it's hot and humid, many locals wear shorts.

I've been to Boston and NYC plenty of times and I'll tell you right now, there's nothing odd or strange about seeing the locals in shorts.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

SG_67 said:


> When it's hot, I wear shorts. I don't care where I am.


I do too, when the weather gets hot I change to shorts as well.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

SG_67 said:


> Why should cocktail party matter? Let's assume no dress code, why SHOULD I wear slacks if it's hot and humid outside?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'd be more than happy to wear slacks if the evening is cooler but if it's hot and humid?


Why should you sweat to death when you can feel comfortable in shorts?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

eagle2250 said:


> My friend, you are absolutely spot-on with your assessment, but I've got to tell you, as one of the "wear shorts only for exercise crowd," a bit less than four months of living in this sub-tropical environment into which we relocated has substantially tempered my views of those wearing shorts regularly. Rumor has it that even I can be found wearing shorts occasionally while walking about the neighborhood! :redface:


haha no kidding, Florida and Houston are certainly comparable with humidity. My dad has an office in St. Pete that he has to go to once a month, and that's a regular complaint of his.

Also, we're going to a casual cookout at the president of my company's apartment this afternoon- it's hot, and I can promise you I'll be in shorts (as will most others)


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

SG_67 said:


> So what if it identifies one as a tourist? Is that a sin or something to be ashamed of?


Well let's put it this way, I don't go out of my way to ape tourists, lol  My brother was married at the Sacré-Cœur a few years back; and on the invitation it implored guests to please refrain from wearing shorts or sneakers walking around Paris - this was a hint to Americans mainly, and yes it was because these items would identify you as a "tourist." You can be a tourist without being a "tourist."



> I live in Chicago which is as urbane as anywhere else, and in the summer, when it's hot and humid, many locals wear shorts.


Good for you!



> I've been to Boston and NYC plenty of times and I'll tell you right now, there's nothing odd or strange about seeing the locals in shorts.


I've lived in both cities my whole life; but I'll cede you the point because you've been here "plenty of times." Hah! 

It obviously depends upon where in NYC/Boston you are; and who we're talking about. Let's leave it at that.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Califax said:


> Well let's put it this way, I don't go out of my way to ape tourists, lol  My brother was married at the Sacré-Cœur a few years back; and on the invitation it implored guests to please refrain from wearing shorts or sneakers walking around Paris - this was a hint to Americans mainly, and yes it was because these items would identify you as a "tourist." You can be a tourist without being a "tourist."


Who cares if one "looks like a tourist"? If it's hot and humid, I'll wear shorts. The moment I open my mouth to ask for something it will be obvious that I'm an American tourist. If it's mild, I'll wear slacks.



> Good for you!


Thank you!



> I've lived in both cities my whole life; but I'll cede you the point because you've been here "plenty of times." Hah!
> 
> It obviously depends upon where in NYC/Boston you are; and who we're talking about. Let's leave it at that.


Leaving aside the hint of classism within your comment, how wonderful for you that you've lived in both towns.

I've been all around Manhattan and Boston is so small I've walked nearly every inch of that town from the backbay, to the north end and Beacon Hill and I've seen, at least in the sweltering heat, tourists and locals alike wearing shorts.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Must have been a slow Friday the 13 to worry about this. I wear shorts when it's hot outside and I don't have to be anywhere in a professional context or out hiking in the woods (lyme disease carrying ticks).


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Some people have a style which is defined by what they wear: let's call that "active style".

Some have a style defined by what they won't wear: we could call this "passive style".

"I wear a cravat!": active.

"I never wear jeans.": passive.

And so on.

Active style tends to be preference-based: I like it, so I'll wear it. It's less beholden to "rules" or "what others may think". It's individualistic.

Passive style is avoidance-based: I hope I don't look like a tourist! Is it too early to wear white? Only waiters wear that lapel. It's collectivistic.

Both can be taken to extremes; clowns are active style in extremis, Mao jackets are too collectivist.

I don't think there's a right or wrong; naturally, it's a rich vein of argument.

Me? I practice active style. Hot? shorts. Hot? white. What's the date? Who cares! It's hot.

AAAC leans heavily towards passive style (dressing "correctly"), and I will agree that wearing shorts in town (like wearing brown) is "wrong", and I would care if I... cared. I, however, do not, so I will wear shorts if I deem it necessary.

DH


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

To each his own. One place that shorts look great involves doing reinsurance business in Bermuda. Blazer, white shirt and tie. Shorts @ 8" inseam, over the calf socks, and good shoes, the standard uniform for deal makers. A tourist could never pull this off.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Dhaller said:


> Some people have a style which is defined by what they wear: let's call that "active style".
> 
> Some have a style defined by what they won't wear: we could call this "passive style".
> 
> ...


Interesting but utter tosh.

Expressing strong distaste for things may be avoidance based or may be based on a strong underlying preference or may be based on a strong underlying view as to what best accords with classical conventions. It in no way necessarily imputes a 'go with the herd' mentality.

What at you characterise as passive preferences are often expressed because of the context: e.g. In response to someone raising the issue of whether X looks good, etc. And to be helpful often the advice is expressed not by reference solely to personal preference but also the poster's view - right or wrong - as to what is sensible in the context of the question as a matter of general practice (the locus classicus being the 'first interview' or 'funeral' threads).

What you characterise as active style is pure subjectivism. Which is defensible as a philosophical perspective; it just often looks like sh$t / is wholly insensitive to man being a social animal.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Intrepid said:


> To each his own. One place that shorts look great involves doing reinsurance business in Bermuda. Blazer, white shirt and tie. Shorts @ 8" inseam, over the calf socks, and good shoes, the standard uniform for deal makers. A tourist could never pull this off.


This is just silly.

Wearing shorts in in hot weather because it is more comfortable and you don't care about formality I understand.

Wearing shorts as part of a faux business rig that ex hypothesi will be uncomfortable because of the jacket and tie is just stupid. Sounds like a hotel resort uniform where a faceless corporation decrees jacket and tie but allows shorts as a union concession. Would be a good look as the manager of a outdoor pool at top Vegas hotel, perhaps.


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## adept (Jun 9, 2015)

> Let's be honest- this thread will do what every other shorts/jeans/sneakers thread does and attract the same group of posters that defend shorts and the same group of posters that hate shorts.


Entirely possible...LOL


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## adept (Jun 9, 2015)

Wearing shorts depends on the context. If you are contemplating wearing shorts in a setting that is pushing the envelope, then you don't understand or don't care. I would like to think that most who frequent this website, for the reason they are more conscientious about their appearance, would know better.

Edit to say, when in doubt, don't...


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

I struggled with shorts in the city for a long time, however in recent years I have revised my position, and on weekends I now walk around "beshorted" through the same Sydney streets that Monday to Friday I wear pinstripes on. 

I only wear dark khaki four pocket cargo type shorts, and counter them with a colourful top - pink, powder blue etc, to avoid looking like asurvivor of the battle of the Kokoda Trail.

Given that the great proletarian masses wear boardshorts,ripped t shirts and flip flops on "casual dress Fridays" I think I am doing alright.


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> I struggled with shorts in the city for a long time, however in recent years I have revised my position, and on weekends I now walk around "beshorted" through the same Sydney streets that Monday to Friday I wear pinstripes on.
> 
> I only wear dark khaki four pocket cargo type shorts, and counter them with a colourful top - pink, powder blue etc, to avoid looking like asurvivor of the battle of the Kokoda Trail.
> 
> Given that the great proletarian masses wear boardshorts,ripped t shirts and flip flops on "casual dress Fridays" I think I am doing alright.


Cargo shorts?! Noooooooo!


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> My friend, you are absolutely spot-on with your assessment, but I've got to tell you, as one of the "wear shorts only for exercise crowd," a bit less than four months of living in this sub-tropical environment into which we relocated has substantially tempered my views of those wearing shorts regularly. Rumor has it that even I can be found wearing shorts occasionally while walking about the neighborhood! :redface:


If you are a recent convert to shorts, I bet those legs are blindingly white. lol


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

Trad-ish said:


> Cargo shorts?! Noooooooo!


Yes. shades of the Raj and the ICS doing village visits.

"Bearer, pass me me elephant gun, there is a man here who dislikes my shorts."


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

But my crooked shanks need to be covered!

J/K. Shorts have their place as do pants. In the hot weather, there is nothing better than a cool breeze up one's leg to cool down the "boys" if you know what I mean. That's a deal-maker. And it's why I go with a 2" inseam.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Shorts? Because it is hot? Why stop there? Why not speedos? Or just go naked?

Of course as an old fuddy-duddy archaic rule slave myself I have often, when assaulted by the Sun's rays, thought to myself 'if only my knees and shins were exposed then I should certainly be much more comfortable'.


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

https://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/tag/safari-jacket/

When Q visits Japan in _You Only Live Twice_, he wears the classic British military warm-weather outfit of a bush shirt tucked into Bermuda shorts. Q's military-issued, khaki cotton bush shirt has a two-piece point collar, front placket, shoulder straps and two breast pockets, each with a box pleat and button flap. The shirt's buttons are light brown horn. Q wears the collar button and first two buttons open. He also wears the shirt's long sleeves rolled up above the elbow.
https://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Q-Bush-Outfit-2.jpgQ's linen bermuda shorts are british tan-darker than the khaki shirt-and have single forward pleats and slanted side pockets. The shorts' waistband is wide and has an extended button closure and slide-buckle side tabs. In the rear, there are two darts on either side in the rear and no pockets. The hem is knee-length, though more traditionally for Bermuda shorts it's an inch or two above the knee. Though Bermuda shorts can be tailor-made, Q's certainly are not. They are too large in the seat and bunch up, and the legs are a little baggier than they should be. Bermuda shorts are cut like dress trousers, and in Bermuda they are treated as such when made of dressy materials. With this outfit, Q wears the requisite light brown suede, 2-eyelet, crepe-soled desert boots with tan over-the-calf socks.
https://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Q-Assistants.jpgQ's two assistants who set up Little Nellie wear similar clothes to Q's clothes, all surely provided by the military. They both wear bush shirts; one wears a khaki shirt with the sleeves rolled up and the other wears a british tan shirt with the sleeves down and cuffs buttoned. His shirt's cuffs are rounded with a single button. Both assistants wear khaki cotton Bermuda shorts, light brown desert boots and long light brown socks, all in the same style as what Q wears.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

drlivingston said:


> If you are a recent convert to shorts, I bet those legs are blindingly white. lol


....and that, Sir, is a wager that you would surely win! Onlookers continue to don their beloved Ray-bans when my lower legs are exposed. LOL. 



Shaver said:


> Shorts? Because it is hot? Why stop there? Why not speedos? Or just go naked?
> 
> .....


LOL. Would you believe I've tried both of your suggestions and been asked by the neighbors to please stop and further stating "it was just too much of a good thing!" Bwahahaha!


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Shaver said:


> Shorts? Because it is hot? Why stop there? Why not speedos? Or just go naked?
> 
> Of course as an old fuddy-duddy archaic rule slave myself I have often, when assaulted by the Sun's rays, thought to myself 'if only my knees and shins were exposed then I should certainly be much more comfortable'.


So what counts as hot and humid in Manchester?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

We English possess a little book, commonly referred to as a passport, which permits us to roam hither and thither across the globe and in this manner our experience of climate is not exclusively limited to that found directly out of our own front door.


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## crispyfresh (Jan 30, 2016)

Califax said:


> So, I was at a cocktail party here in Boston tonight; and there were a few people in shorts; which was a bit odd because it's not THAT hot out and most peeps were coming from work.
> 
> I'm not sure I would normally notice such a thing but I did; and it occurred to me suddenly that I wouldn't be wearing shorts even if it were 95 deg. out.
> 
> ...


I applaud people who have the confidence to wear what THEY wanna wear:


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ Indeed. It helps when douchebags so clearly self-identify, although I find that douchebaggery is easy to detect in the absence of such overt signalling.


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## ouinon (Jun 28, 2015)

Shaver said:


> We English possess a little book, commonly referred to as a passport, which permits us to roam hither and thither across the globe and in this manner our experience of climate is not exclusively limited to that found directly out of our own front door.


So you don't wear shorts on holiday either?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't like the shorts/blazer look anyways, but the fit of the jackets in those pictures doesn't do anything to help their cases.

except for Wooster, he can kind of do what he wants and get away with it.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

ouinon said:


> So you don't wear shorts on holiday either?


Well, I don't go 'on holiday' rather I travel. This snooty distinction aside, still, the answer is 'No, of course not. Why would I ?'


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

drlivingston said:


> [T]rust me, many corporate people wear shorts here in the summer to work.


This thread has unfolded exactly as Orange Fury predicted it would, with one exception: the statement quoted above. I did not see that one coming.

Wearing shorts if you work, say, in a small advertising agency or in the back office of a small manufacturing concern? I could see that. But in a "corporate" environment? Curious. Very curious. Well, if you can get away with it on a muggy Alabama day, good for you.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Fat blokes love wearing shorts, even in the winter. Although Peter Griffin always has long green trousers. Maybe it is a UK thing. 

I feel odd wearing shorts outside the beach - even on a golf course on a hot summer day.

Anyway, long trousers used to be a rite of passage from boy to man. The only adults wearing shorts were vegetarians, scoutmasters, ramblers and various other weirdos.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Shaver said:


> Well, I don't go 'on holiday' rather I travel. This snooty distinction aside, still, the answer is 'No, of course not. Why would I ?'


I worked with a man that always kept his jacket on. Even on the hottest summer day. I admired that. The style of the British Raj.

If it was too hot the memsahibs could always go up to the hill station in Simla. But a gentleman keeps his jacket on.

All this disappeared with 'kidults'.

Middle aged people going to rock concerts themselves - instead of waiting in the car to pick up their daughters after the school disco.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

Balfour said:


> ^ Indeed. It helps when douchebags so clearly self-identify, although I find that douchebaggery is easy to detect in the absence of such overt signalling.


I almost cannot believe the poster was putting those photos up as exemplars of good style; it's always best to assume the best about people, so I'm going to say I detect a bit of subtle and devious irony in those photos, and that the poster was being satirical.

Actually, at boarding school the whole blazer/sport jacket and shorts thing was very popular; I used to do it too. But it was deffy not in the city.

This thread reminds me that both of my grandfathers were inveterate gardeners; and they almost always they gardened in their suits; or sport coats, and always in a tie. And NEVER, EVER in shorts. Cigars in mouths, sweating profusely, as I remember. haha


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## Roycru (Apr 13, 2011)

Some might find this helpful, while others may not.....


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Balfour said:


> ^ Indeed. It helps when douchebags so clearly self-identify, although I find that douchebaggery is easy to detect in the absence of such overt signalling.


Can someone please translate this for me?


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## crispyfresh (Jan 30, 2016)

Califax said:


> I almost cannot believe the poster was putting those photos up as exemplars of good style; it's always best to assume the best about people, so I'm going to say I detect a bit of subtle and devious irony in those photos, and that the poster was being satirical.
> 
> Actually, at boarding school the whole blazer/sport jacket and shorts thing was very popular; I used to do it too. But it was deffy not in the city.
> 
> This thread reminds me that both of my grandfathers were inveterate gardeners; and they almost always they gardened in their suits; or sport coats, and always in a tie. And NEVER, EVER in shorts. Cigars in mouths, sweating profusely, as I remember. haha


I put those pictures up as a example of people wearing what THEY wanna wear and not caring about other people's opinions. In todays' society, which has no substance, the MAJORITY of what we call trad clothing looks like old fashioned old men dress up clothes, or at the least, preppy, to people who are not in the know about the style. Does that stop people who love trad from dressing that way?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

What jobs are you allowed to wear shorts besides lifeguards?


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## ouinon (Jun 28, 2015)

Howard said:


> What jobs are you allowed to wear shorts besides lifeguards?


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/64/5f/9c/645f9cd9ffbbb8a02faf6f9059ef9723.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/64/5f/9c/645f9cd9ffbbb8a02faf6f9059ef9723.jpg


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Howard said:


> What jobs are you allowed to wear shorts besides lifeguards?


UPS drivers

Edit: And gym teachers and boxers. Catalogue models.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

crispyfresh said:


> I put those pictures up as a example of people wearing what FASHION TELLS THEM WHAT THEY wanna wear and REALLY WANTING TO BE NOTICED. In todays' society, which has no substance, the MAJORITY of what we call trad clothing looks like old fashioned old men dress up clothes, or at the least, preppy, to people who are not in the know about the style. Does that stop people who love trad from dressing that way?


fixed that for you. You had some typos.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

https://weatherspark.com/averages/29970/Corpus-Christi-Texas-United-States

I'd like to take this opportunity to invite any members that refuse to wear shorts to spend a week in August down here in south Texas with me, and I'll buy your first pair short pants when you can no longer stand the heat.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

Howard said:


> What jobs are you allowed to wear shorts besides lifeguards?


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

I must make the observation that big fat men, who presumably perspire year round, looove wearing shorts as soon as humanly possible. Were the men in question tubby types? 
I really never truly noticed a real cooling effect of short sleeves or half pants. Are one's knees and elbows getting too warm? Loose thin fabric is fine. These ballhugging tapered short pants of late are a joke and I have no idea what their point is.
It was two weeks before Memorial Day. Have some standards.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Tempest said:


> I must make the observation that big fat men, who presumably perspire year round, looove wearing shorts as soon as humanly possible. Were the men in question tubby types?
> I really never truly noticed a real cooling effect of short sleeves or half pants. Are one's knees and elbows getting too warm? Loose thin fabric is fine. These ballhugging tapered short pants of late are a joke and I have no idea what their point is.
> It was two weeks before Memorial Day. Have some standards.


humidity. If it's a dry heat, fine, long sleeves and pants block direct sunlight. When the heat index is 104*F and humidity is at 90%, it doesn't matter how thin the fabric is, every inch of it will stick to you.

I worked for a car rental company in college, where we were required to wear a shirt and tie. After a summer where several employees collapsed from heatstroke in the parking lot, management said that employees could start wearing golf shirts- our region didn't have an issue after that.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Howard said:


> What jobs are you allowed to wear shorts besides lifeguards?


The one being done by the rather handsome chap in the avatar on this post.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Chouan said:


> The one being done by the rather handsome chap in the avatar on this post.


As good an opportunity as any for a re-post of a larger version of your thumbnail avatar image?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Shaver said:


> As good an opportunity as any for a re-post of a larger version of your thumbnail avatar image?


+1, I've always wondered what that was


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

orange fury said:


> +1, I've always wondered what that was


For many years I believed it to be Giger's Alien at a drinking fountain......


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Shaver said:


> For many years I believed it to be Giger's Alien at a drinking fountain......


funny you mention that- I've always thought it was an alien wearing a helmet and oversized bulletproof vest leaning against a drinking fountain.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

I'll have to find the picture now.....


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Et voila!
Me on the bridge wing of the vessel I was serving on during the First Gulf war. We were issued with kevlar body armour, which we only wore on this occasion as it was so uncomfortable. The object I am leaning on is the bridgewing compass repeater, with an azimuth mirror on top for taking bearings. Here's a close up of one


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

Califax said:


> Is my sense (obtained, I think, just from watching other people in my family and beyond) that wearing shorts in the city is verboten outside of an exercise environment completely unfounded, or anachronistic, or just an absurd preference I've picked up erroneously?


I think that your overall view of shorts is a little extreme.

However, I do agree with you that it is odd for someone to wear shorts to a cocktail party. Especially one that is not a daytime event in the summer. In my experience cocktail parties signal that this is an occasion to dress above what you would normally wear, but not a suit.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

What is it about "the city"? 

I've heard this mentioned on numerous occasions on this thread. Does temperature affect people differently in the city vs. country or suburbs?


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

SG_67 said:


> What is it about "the city"?
> 
> I've heard this mentioned on numerous occasions on this thread. Does temperature affect people differently in the city vs. country or suburbs?


It depends on what you're doing, I suppose. But everything else being equal, city life is a bit more formal than life in a suburb or rural life.

I'm willing to be most libraries, for example, in rural areas you'd feel perfectly find sauntering in wearing shorts. But try doing that here:

















I can reference many, many similar places that feature prominently in my life, on a daily basis. Again, I'm sure there are exceptions.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Califax said:


> It depends on what you're doing, I suppose. But everything else being equal, city life is a bit more formal than life in a suburb or rural life.
> 
> I'm willing to be most libraries, for example, in rural areas you'd feel perfectly find sauntering in wearing shorts. But try doing that here:
> 
> ...


Life in the city is more formal? There are certainly more formal events in the city but life in general is no more formal or informal than anywhere else.

The pics you posted; unless specifically posted, I wouldn't hesitate to wear shorts into either.

I hate being hot! When on vacation and if it's hot, I'll dress comfortably. Abstract rules of propriety cease to exist when they bump up against practicality.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)




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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

SG_67 said:


> Life in the city is more formal? There are certainly more formal events in the city but life in general is no more formal or informal than anywhere else.
> 
> The pics you posted; unless specifically posted, I wouldn't hesitate to wear shorts into either.
> 
> I hate being hot! When on vacation and if it's hot, I'll dress comfortably. Abstract rules of propriety cease to exist when they bump up against practicality.


Yes, city life is permeated by institutions, clubs and societies and whatnot which, by their very nature, range from the somewhat to the extremely formal - in customs, dress, manners, discussion, mutual regard, social stratification etc. That is just a fact. It's hard to believe that you would maintain otherwise.

No, you wouldn't spend any appreciable time in that institution wearing shorts; unless you are utterly bereft of social awareness, you would feel extremely uncomfortable in your comfy/cool shorts. I can pretty much guarantee that.

And no, a dress code isn't posted because it isn't necessary. And it isn't necessary precisely because the codes are implicit. If you weren't aware of them you probably wouldn't be aware of the institution either.

And it's not about air conditioning either; for most of its existence it didn't have air conditioning; it only recently acquired climate control, etc.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Larger image: https://i.imgur.com/DbTXT3s.png


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

In the proper context there's nothing wrong with shorts.https://s3.photobucket.com/user/the...8-4c37-98f3-baafafc6b32a_zps1cf91add.jpg.html

https://s3.photobucket.com/user/the...0-418b-aa8a-5aa6ed42224d_zps4679a103.jpg.html


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

I suppose I have three governing assumptions in this discussion; assumptions I'm afraid I was more or less taking for granted; nevertheless they seem to me to be irrefutable. 

1. not every place is the same, much less every city; wichita is different in a bewildering variety of ways from, say, London. 

2. the idea that you could "know" a city by visiting it a few times, even many times, is frankly risible. I've spent my whole life more or less in Boston's back bay and I often feel that, as much as it feels like home, I couldn't get to "know" the Back Bay much less Boston in an entire lifetime. 

3. not everyone is of the same tribe; even people who live in the same city, and even on the same block, may live in very, very different cities. This is just the way it is.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

I am rather dismayed that some are not grasping that the urban should be more urbane than more rural people.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

ouinon said:


>


I've definitely seen mailmen/women wear shorts.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

The pith helmet is good. I do not believe that anyone is begrudging those in uniform.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Califax said:


> Yes, city life is permeated by institutions, clubs and societies and whatnot which, by their very nature, range from the somewhat to the extremely formal - in customs, dress, manners, discussion, mutual regard, social stratification etc. That is just a fact. It's hard to believe that you would maintain otherwise.
> 
> No, you wouldn't spend any appreciable time in that institution wearing shorts; unless you are utterly bereft of social awareness, you would feel extremely uncomfortable in your comfy/cool shorts. I can pretty much guarantee that.
> 
> ...


If there's a dress code that's a different matter. My club has a dress code during weekdays which is fine as I'm typically attired in what would be considered business wear.

However, when on vacation or on my own time, I'll dress according to the weather. You're certainly free to adhere to arbitrary rules that you set for yourself based on tradition or some other notion of the urban vs. country, but it's just that; arbitrary. Whether something is implied or not is irrelevant. I've gone into any number of "institutions" without regard and I've not had any issues. I've never felt out of place or otherwise uncomfortable.

Why? Because I'm not so shallow as to worry about what others may think if they see me in shorts. I'm comfortable with my own sense of self, who I am and don't need a nod of approval from the usher to be made to feel welcome.

If a particular dress code is indicated, that's a different matter. A gentleman ought not consider wearing shorts into the Vatican but walking around Rome in the summer?

I must say that there is an air of haughtiness abound on this thread when people compare Wichita Kansas to London. As though Wichita is full of rubes that don't know better.

If anyone is so bound up by such silliness as to judge another by his choice of pants, then I pity your sad existence.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

SG_67 said:


> If there's a dress code that's a different matter. My club has a dress code during weekdays which is fine as I'm typically attired in what would be considered business wear.
> 
> However, when on vacation or on my own time, I'll dress according to the weather. You're certainly free to adhere to arbitrary rules that you set for yourself based on tradition or some other notion of the urban vs. country, but it's just that; arbitrary. Whether something is implied or not is irrelevant. I've gone into any number of "institutions" without regard and I've not had any issues. I've never felt out of place or otherwise uncomfortable.
> 
> Why? Because I'm not so shallow as to worry about what others may think if they see me in shorts. I'm comfortable with my own sense of self, who I am and don't need a nod of approval from the usher to be made to feel welcome.


Well, perhaps the difference is discerned therein^^. It's simply not ultimately about you and your feelings and sense of priorities; you matter a great deal less than you apparently think you do.

Let's put it this way then. Either you don't know what is expected of you in a given institution, club or society; or you are aware of what is expected of you, but you prefer to dress as you like, regardless of expectations; it's (roughly) either ignorance (willful or otherwise) or adolescent disregard.

Either way, you would not be likely to step across the threshold of the places I'm referring to; unless as a very transient interloper, who will keenly feel that he doesn't belong, I promise you. I know that as certainly as I know my nose on my face. This is not a slight; it's just how it is.



> If a particular dress code is indicated, that's a different matter. A gentleman ought not consider wearing shorts into the Vatican but walking around Rome in the summer?
> 
> I must say that there is an air of haughtiness abound on this thread when people compare Wichita Kansas to London. As though Wichita is full of rubes that don't know better.


So funny. Don't you see that the snobbery resides in your own assumptions? Quite the opposite of me; I applaud and value the differences among people and places.



> If anyone is so bound up by such silliness as to judge another by his choice of pants, then I pity your sad existence.


Who said anything about judging a person? I was referring to the choice of clothing; not to the person.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Califax said:


> Well, perhaps the difference is discerned therein^^. It's simply not ultimately about you and your feelings and sense of priorities; you matter a great deal less than you apparently think you do.
> 
> Let's put it this way then. Either you don't know what is expected of you in a given institution, club or society; or you are aware of what is expected of you, but you prefer to dress as you like, regardless of expectations; it's (roughly) either ignorance (willful or otherwise) or adolescent disregard.
> 
> ...


Proclaiming me as either ignorant or practicing willful disregard is not judging? We'll put that aside for now.

You're certainly free to feel anyway you'd like in a given situation, at any given time and at any particular place given your current state of dress.

Wearing shorts in an urban setting is not a crime. It's no tawdry, lewd or déclassé in the least bit. Should one always wear shorts? Of course not. Should one attend opening night wearing shorts?

I can assure you of this, my self esteem and view of myself is not wrapped up in what I wear. So as plain as the nose on your face may be, it fails when it comes to detecting where and when I feel as though I don't belong. Wherever I am, that's where I belong. It's quite that simple.

And yes, it is about me. As far as to whom I matter, I'm content mattering only to myself and the people I care to make an impression on.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

SG_67 said:


> Proclaiming me as either ignorant or practicing willful disregard is not judging? We'll put that aside for now.


I didn't proclaim you as such. I suppose it would have been clearer and more precise to have said "one." Whether it applies to you is not for me to judge.



> So as plain as the nose on your face may be, it fails when it comes to detecting where and when I feel as though I don't belong. Wherever I am, that's where I belong. It's quite that simple.
> 
> And yes, it is about me. As far as to whom I matter, I'm content mattering only to myself and the people I care to make an impression on.


Yes, that about sums it up. I am not partial to Dr. Seuss, myself. You must admit, it does sound a bit like him:

"So as plain as the nose on your face may be, 
It fails when it comes to detecting me.
When I feel as though I don't belong. 
Wherever I am, that's where I belong. 
It's quite that simple. 
And yes, it is about me, you see;
As far as to whom I matter, 
I'm content mattering primarily to me,
And the people I care to flatter;
Wherever I am, that's where I belong. 
It's quite that simple."


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

SG_67 said:


> I.......If anyone is so bound up by such silliness as to judge another by his choice of pants, then I pity your sad existence.


Why thank you SG, that is very kind of you to commiserate so profusely, it* is* a burden to endure my sad (not to mention judgemental) existence. 

.
.
.
.
.

.
.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Califax said:


> I didn't proclaim you as such. I suppose it would have been clearer and more precise to have said "one." Whether it applies to you is not for me to judge.
> 
> Yes, that about sums it up. I am not partial to Dr. Seuss, myself. You must admit, it does sound a bit like him:
> 
> ...


Now I am partial to Seuss, very partial, and there is one sublimely erudite tale which sums up the folly of conformism vis-a-vis good taste - The Sneetches.

*But, because they had stars, all the Star-Belly Sneetches
Would brag, "We're the best kind of Sneetch on the beaches."
With their snoots in the air, they would sniff and they'd snort
"We'll have nothing to do with the Plain-Belly sort!"

*







*

*Full text here: https://courses.cs.vt.edu/cs2604/Summer2000/projects/Sneetches.txt


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Chouan said:


> Et voila!
> Me on the bridge wing of the vessel I was serving on during the First Gulf war.


This pic may be a timely reminder to some of the regular Interchange contributors that there is a real person behind brother Chouan's avatar and one, if I may say so, of no small experience or achievement. Something to bear in mind when the accusations of trollery are being blithely bandied about subsequent to a reasonable disagreement of political perspective.

:icon_saint7kg:


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

SG_67 said:


> I must say that there is an air of haughtiness abound on this thread when people compare Wichita Kansas to London. As though Wichita is full of rubes that don't know better.


I imagine the Wichita Lineman( whatever that is) probably wore shorts.

Strange that American gridiron seems to favour slimline plus fours and long socks over shorts though....


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

In contrast, I imagine anybody going to San Antone would be well advised to dress up well against the wind and rain. Hat essential.

Sleeping under a table in a roadside park can get chilly of a night. Not to mention walking down 66 all day.

Maybe a pair of those lightweight trahseez where you can zip the bottom off and convert them into shorts?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Califax said:


> I didn't proclaim you as such. I suppose it would have been clearer and more precise to have said "one." Whether it applies to you is not for me to judge.


Point taken.



> Yes, that about sums it up. I am not partial to Dr. Seuss, myself. You must admit, it does sound a bit like him:
> 
> "So as plain as the nose on your face may be,
> It fails when it comes to detecting me.
> ...


Now how can I argue with Dr. Suess.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Shaver said:


> This pic may be a timely reminder to some of the regular Interchange contributors that there is a real person behind brother Chouan's avatar and one, if I may say so, of no small experience or achievement. Something to bear in mind when the accusations of trollery are being blithely bandied about subsequent to a reasonable disagreement of political perspective.
> 
> :icon_saint7kg:


I am inclined to agree with your conclusion(s) and will add that "brother Chouan" comes to us with some rather obvious debating skills and I am certain he is an even more skilled educator. However, given the suggestive design of the body armor he is wearing, in the picture to which you refer, he obviously must be engaged in a debate with some fellow crew members and dressed accordingly. LOL.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> I am inclined to agree with your conclusion(s) and will add that "brother Chouan" comes to us with some rather obvious debating skills and I am certain he is an even more skilled educator. However, given the suggestive design of the body armor he is wearing, in the picture to which you refer, he obviously must be engaged in a debate with some fellow crew members and dressed accordingly. LOL.


More in case of a robust disagreement with an Iranian "Boghammar" https://www.naval-technology.com/fe...st-attack-craft-fleet-behind-hyperbole-4.html or Maverick, or an Iraqi Exocet. Differences of opinion with the crew were usually managed by my pointing out the obvious fallaciousness of their arguments, such that their shame overcame their aggression. That and the weight of either Queen's ,or Board of Trade, Regulations......


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Kingstonian said:


> In contrast, I imagine anybody going to San Antone would be well advised to dress up well against the wind and rain. Hat essential.
> 
> Sleeping under a table in a roadside park can get chilly of a night. Not to mention walking down 66 all day.
> 
> Maybe a pair of those lightweight trahseez where you can zip the bottom off and convert them into shorts?


I am surprised to hear somebody from your side of the pond to know that song, maybe you know the original Charlie Pride version, but I think the Texas Tornadoes did it better.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Yes Charlie Pride. From a Country n Irish station. They play a lot of that type of music - red sovine tearjerkers, local news and the death notices.

Philomena can do good cover versions in addition to songs about Tyrone/cottages in the old Dungannon road.

She does this as well as anybody, including Charlie Pride:-


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Reuben said:


> Larger image: https://i.imgur.com/DbTXT3s.png


Why did they have a law like that in the 1950's?


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## Andersdad (Oct 23, 2006)

Does one wear shorts on Russell Street?


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

Shaver said:


> We English possess a little book, commonly referred to as a passport, which permits us to roam hither and thither across the globe and in this manner our experience of climate is not exclusively limited to that found directly out of our own front door.


Half the world now travels with a British passport, often in shorts, saris, pyjamas and lord knows what else.....


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

SG_67 said:


> What is it about "the city"?
> 
> I've heard this mentioned on numerous occasions on this thread. Does temperature affect people differently in the city vs. country or suburbs?


I dont know. I was taught never to wear brown shoes in the city Monday to Thursday -we seem to have overlooked that one....


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

Kingstonian said:


> I worked with a man that always kept his jacket on. Even on the hottest summer day. I admired that. The style of the British Raj.
> 
> If it was too hot the memsahibs could always go up to the hill station in Simla. But a gentleman keeps his jacket on.
> 
> ...


Indeed.

And a gentleman will ask ladies present if he may remove his jacket.


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

Whether one likes/love shorts, or not, they have had their place in the trad/ivy, and dare I say, preppy code for quite a long time. As someone who actually grew up in Boston I can tell you that Boston has a long history of applying the above codes, and that in the heat of summer shorts are worn by many locals, not just tourist.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with shorts in the right context. When in doubt I'll wear trousers. "In the city" in and of itself, is not a reason to wear trousers. 

Boston; I can tell you, as someone who began riding the red line to school in the 4th grade, is much more than just Back Bay, Beacon Hill, and the North End. Without knowing the OP, the "Boston" tone of his posts strike me as that of a carpet bagger who has no idea where Mattapan is, or Readville, yet thinks their existence in the same neighborhoods as all the other carpet baggers gives them an understanding of this city. But that's another topic.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> Half the world now travels with a British passport, often in shorts, saris, pyjamas and lord knows what else.....


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Flairball wrote: Boston; I can tell you, as someone who began riding the red line to school in the 4th grade, is much more than just Back Bay, Beacon Hill, and the North End. Without knowing the OP, the "Boston" tone of his posts strike me as that of a carpet bagger who has no idea where Mattapan is, or Readville, yet thinks their existence in the same neighborhoods as all the other carpet baggers gives them an understanding of this city. But that's another topic.

Oh, yeah, did you ever make it to the Hillbilly Ranch in Park Square?


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## Hayek (Jun 20, 2006)

Uhh, it sounds like you need to get more. I've lived in NYC, Boston, and DC and everyone in those cities wears shorts in the summer. My social group consists of people in their 20s-30s, so maybe this is an age thing, but I can't imagine why one would be surprised to see people wearing shorts when it's hot out. After work and on weekend in the summer I more or less exclusively wear khaki shorts, polo shirts, and boat shoes, and that seems to be the order of the day for most people.


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

xcubbies said:


> Oh, yeah, did you ever make it to the Hillbilly Ranch in Park Square?


I'm afraid time was not on my side on this one. The sight of the lounge is now a parking garage, and truth be told, Park Sq now does not resemble Park Sq when I used to walk through it on my way to HS.

BTW, the wife and I frequent your neck of the woods. Portland is a great town.


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

I set my sartorial standards on Victorian Englishmen. If they would wear it - so will I, in the same conditions.

So a rubber planter in Malaya or a member of the Indian civil Service may well wear shorts in the tropics, but would never dream of wearing them in London. He may wear shorts on a visit to a remote kampung, but would not dream of doing so at the club Christmas ball.

simple rule: 
Shorts + open neck short sleeve white shirt = working dress in tropical climes
long tan trousers (chinos) + long sleeve white shirt = casual dress in non aircon environments (eg the club bar)
long dark trousers + Jacket and tie = ladies present (no matter how hot)

EDIT: I mean no matter how hot the weather is, not how hot the ladies are.......


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

And to illustrate:

Malaya club bar c1950. The shorts are worn by a police officer straight off duty. The Planter has changed into long trousers and a long sleeved shirt.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

EnglishmanAbroad said:


> I set my sartorial standards on Victorian Englishmen. If they would wear it - so will I, in the same conditions.


Umm...this is a joke, right?


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## EnglishmanAbroad (Apr 16, 2016)

smmrfld said:


> Umm...this is a joke, right?


Not at all. It's where most of the dress standards you currently follow came from.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

delete by author.


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