# Bush knew?



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Though I have long entertained so-called conspiracy theories regarding the American 9-11 attacks, I have stopped short (lacking the proof) of being in any way convinced that Bush himself may have known more about the attacks than the offical story would have us believe.

Until I saw this rare clip, in which Bush, in late 2001, during an informal talk accidentally lets the cat out of the bag:


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

O.K. Bush is not my chosen president, and I intensely oppose many of his policies. But The whole conspiracy culture is a disease of halftruths, distortions and collection of torn bits of hearsay to create a mosaic and not the true picture. So, for everyone and all; Bush didn't have previous knowledge, the Clintons, often onerous didn't murder anybody,Dianna wasn't snuffed by M.I. 5, there were no shooters on the grassy knoll, It really was a weather balloon at Roswell, F.D. R. had no prior knowledge of Pearl Harbour and there are no Lizard People, Protocols of Zion or unicorns fornicating on the dark side of the Moon- which we faked the landings at the studio now used by Ellen Degeneras. I'm going to place my newly lead lined brolly open over my futon now, just in case North Korea does manage to detonate a nuclear devise off Catalina Island using the U.S.S. Pueblo disquised as a Liberian flagged, swedish cruise liner full of retirees attending a make millions in real estate with no money down by some motivational speaker seminar.


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Kav said:


> O.K. Bush is not my chosen president, and I intensely oppose many of his policies. But The whole conspiracy culture is a disease of halftruths, distortions and collection of torn bits of hearsay to create a mosaic and not the true picture. So, for everyone and all; Bush didn't have previous knowledge, the Clintons, often onerous didn't murder anybody,Dianna wasn't snuffed by M.I. 5, there were no shooters on the grassy knoll, It really was a weather balloon at Roswell, F.D. R. had no prior knowledge of Pearl Harbour and there are no Lizard People, Protocols of Zion or unicorns fornicating on the dark side of the Moon- which we faked the landings at the studio now used by Ellen Degeneras. I'm going to place my newly lead lined brolly open over my futon now, just in case North Korea does manage to detonate a nuclear devise off Catalina Island using the U.S.S. Pueblo disquised as a Liberian flagged, swedish cruise liner full of retirees attending a make millions in real estate with no money down by some motivational speaker seminar.


But there are intelligent and qualified people who subscribe to other than the official version for one or some or all of these events. Did you watch the video in the clip? How do you explain the contents?


----------



## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

JLPWCXIII said:


> But there are intelligent and qualified people who subscribe to other than the official version for one or some or all of these events. Did you watch the video in the clip? How do you explain the contents?


You must be joking! He could have been explaining what he saw on TV, which was that a plane had crashed into one of the towers. Although the video of the actual crash was not at hand the aftermath was and the reports were that a plane had crashed into the tower. He may have jumbled up his words as he is prone to doing but lets please stop with the "Bush knew" theories because they are absurd. This is a government that cannot keep secret from the press national intelligence matters such as terrorist surveillance. Do you think something like this can be kept under such tight lock and key?

The problem with all this sort of non-sense is that right now this talk is taken only seriously by a few very confused fringe groups. In 1945 it would have been tougher to deny the holocaust because it was right there for everyone to see. However 60 years down the road there are many who deny it ever occurred and with the further passage of time this confusion will be taken more and more seriously.


----------



## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

*unsure*

I cannot watch the video now - will watch at home tonight (no sound card at work). I do recall this article in the Washington Post: 
Say what you will about the WP being a radical left wing paper, it did get front page placement. Looking forward to watching tonight.


----------



## fenway (May 2, 2006)

Oh, for the love of God, give it a rest.  

You sound like George Soros.


----------



## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

So, three months after the fact the President says that he saw (on TV) the first plane hit the tower. 

That indicates that he had some foreknowledge of the planned attack.

Good God, man, are you not the least bit embarrassed to make such a post?


----------



## MichaelS (Nov 14, 2005)

I've got my tin foil (no aluminum foil here, that’s a whole different conspiracy) hat on so the Bush Mind Control satellites can't tell me what to believe!


----------



## Spence (Feb 28, 2006)

I think this is just one of those trying too hard to tell a story moments. As it seems like just about every aspect of Bush's life is manipulated to connect more with voters...as is this.

-spence


----------



## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

Jeez Louise. I think he's been a lousy president, but he was obviously saying that he saw on TV _that_ an airplane had hit the tower. He saw _that_ the TV news people were covering it. Not that he actually saw the actual, literal impact itself.

That's how Southerners (esp. Texans) talk.


----------



## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

*memory*

is faulty and changeable. Recently I learned that recall of a memory actually changes it each time, this may account for why eye-witnesses are so problematic for attorneys and investigators.

In addition, we have an President, know for malapropisms, mispronunciations, and inaccuracies relating a story at a time of immense 
stress and confusion.

I'm with Kav.

Michael


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm no bush fan, but I also totally endorse Kav's post. These conspiracy theories are becoming too common and also more and more ridiculous.

I don't want to say much more. I love your posts about menswear and really do appreciate your contributions to that part of the forum.


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

As one of the strongest anti-Bush people on this board, I just don't think this video proves anything. There are two possible interpretations of what Bush says on the video:

1. He is speaking accurately when he says he saw the first airplane hit the WTC, which means that apparently the people who set up the attack were filming it and he got to see it, and then he forgot that it was this giant secret and he talked about it on camera; or

2. his recollection of events is fuzzy.

Given that he's demonstrated over the years that his grasp on reality is tenuous at best, I vote for number 2.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

'Intelligent and qualified people' are infamous for embracing some rather stupid and unqualified ideas and opinions. Please, I could start the mother of all threads on this subject alone. Angela Davis once proclaimed her superior knowledge of Vietnam at a student seminar at UCSC. A few Vets in grad school proceeded to challenge her to list 5 Saigon bars, ocean currents off the coast and how fast a water buffalo can charge out of a rice paddy. It's the story of the 4 blind men examining an elephant and deciding what it was.


----------



## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

*Bush knew even more!*



JLPWCXIII said:


> Though I have long entertained so-called conspiracy theories regarding the American 9-11 attacks, I have stopped short (lacking the proof) of being in any way convinced that Bush himself may have known more about the attacks than the offical story would have us believe.
> 
> Until I saw this rare clip, in which Bush, in late 2001, during an informal talk accidentally lets the cat out of the bag:
> 
> [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc2lih2qjEg&NR"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc2lih2qjEg&NR


I respect you and love your posts.

But the version I heard is that Bush had a lot of prior knowledge that he had gotten from Tony Blair. And the real key is that Blair had gotten his info from The Queen who got it from........!!!!

See how SILLY, rumors, 1/2 truths, and misinterpretations can be!


----------



## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

I'm more inclined to subscribe to this conspiracy theory:


----------



## Spence (Feb 28, 2006)

Beresford said:


> I'm more inclined to subscribe to this conspiracy theory:


Yea, but as Cheney says...it hasn't completely been shot down either!

-spence


----------



## whnay. (Dec 30, 2004)

Save yourself the embarassment and delete this thread...


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

It depends on the meaning of "knew." The possibly apocryphal _Book of Bush,_ of which only a single fragment of text has survived, relates just what a Bush of the ancient world "knew," and should have known:

1. . . . Verily, did Bush then goeth in unto his helpmeet, Laura, and he lieth there with her, and he knew her.
2. And, lo, Laura did conceive and begat she unto Bush two maidens, Jenna and Barbara, and fair and comely they were, and maketh not the people to groan. 
3. And the people were pleased with this issue, and did rejoice, and bloweth they did upon the pipe and plucketh they did upon the string, and falleth they did upon one another, in merriment and wonder.
4. Went then the people unto Bush, and gathereth them about him, and beseecheth him they did, saying:
5. "Bush, goeth thou not unto war, but goeth in unto thy helpmeet, Laura, and lieth there with her, and know her, and maketh her to beget more maidens unto thee, fair and comely, and pass thou thy days in idleness and fornication, as did the one before you! Goeth thou not unto war in the Land of Ur and far Babylon!" 
6. But Bush heard the people not, and he went not in unto his helpmeet, Laura, and he lay with her not, neither did he know her, and she begat not unto him more maidens, fair and comely. Heeding not the people, unto war Bush went, he and his chieftains, unto the Land of Ur and far Babylon.
7. Then were the people stirred to anger and great mischief, tearing at their raiment, and raising great tumult, saying: 
8. "Bush, if thou go not in unto thy helpmeet, Laura, and if thou lieth there not with her, and know her not, and maketh her not to beget unto thee more maidens, fair and comely; but shall pass thou thy days in war in the Land of Ur and far Babylon, then unto thine words shall we hearken not, neither shall we heed the counsel of thy chieftains
9. Verily we say unto to thee, Bush: if thou doeth not these things we ask of thee, and goest thou then unto war and retireth not, we shall come unto thee and thy chieftains, and put our hands upon thee, and we shall cast thee and them from us, unto the darkness beyond the Beltway, where dwelleth only carrion fowl and the Mingled Peoples!"
10. And hearing thus, Bush waxed wroth and did curse the people and did tear his raiment, crying: " I am the Chief of all of thee! I maketh war where I will, and I goeth in unto whom I will, and I goeth neither to the right hand, nor to the left hand, when I will not!"
11. And the people were sore amazed at Bush and his wrothful speech, and in the eleventh month did they take themselves unto the assembly, and there did they throw their lots upon the ground.
12. And the scribes of the people came them unto the assembly and gathered unto them the lots that were upon the ground, yea, all of them, and counted them they did.
13. And the scribes did read the judgment of the people in the lots they had thrown upon the ground, and the judgment was read to the people, and the people were pleased with the judgment that they had made.
14. And went then the people unto Bush and his chieftains, and put they their hands upon them, and cast them away they did, unto the darkness beyond the Beltway, where dwelleth only carrion fowl and the Mingled Peoples . . . .

The fragments breaks off at this point.


----------



## Jimmy G (Mar 23, 2006)

Did Bush know ? Were it not for the lovely and gracious Laura by his side, Bush would probably shower with his clothes on.


----------



## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah you cant really be serious with this utube video. First of all it looks like something from Access Hollywood or one of those retarted shows. Secondly, I'm a bush supporter but everyone knows how notoriouslly bad he is when it comes to speaking, some of the stuff this guy says I wouldnt believe until I heard it first hand.

MrR


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

*JLPWCXIII - don't hurt yourself with big ideas*

Gents,

One again JLPWCXIII has shown that he should stick to posting pictures of late Victorian Great Britain rather than trying to make a salient point about current affairs.

Karl


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I can't belive this was posted when $40 million people are dying in the streets of America because they don't have healthcare while the other $260 million are shooting at each other. ;-)


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Interesting responses. Bush has a long track record of being coy with the truth (to put it mildly), and here we have startling evidence that he claims to have 'seen the first plane hit the tower'. If former President Clinton had made an analagous slip-up about the Cole bombing, Vince Foster, or Ron Brown, one wonders if the gentlemen on this thread would have been equally determined to overlook it.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

JLPWCXIII,

Have I ever complained about Clinton's commission in the GRU? Absolutely not! I am glad he served at least one country honorably!.....just kidding. I for one have never subscribed to the conspiracy theories surrounding the Clinton's except for the the cloud Bill Clinton created over what the meaning of IS is.

Karl


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Kav said:


> 'Intelligent and qualified people' are infamous for embracing some rather stupid and unqualified ideas and opinions. Please, I could start the mother of all threads on this subject alone. Angela Davis once proclaimed her superior knowledge of Vietnam at a student seminar at UCSC. A few Vets in grad school proceeded to challenge her to list 5 Saigon bars, ocean currents off the coast and how fast a water buffalo can charge out of a rice paddy. It's the story of the 4 blind men examining an elephant and deciding what it was.


Certainly intelligent and qualified people can be misinformed, self-deluded, etc., just like anyone else. But as one of our more independent-minded members, don't you ever hesitate to accept the 'official' version of events, especially when there are inconsistencies and cover-ups?


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> JLPWCXIII,
> 
> Have I ever complained about Clinton's commission in the GRU? Absolutely not! I am glad he served at least one country honorably!.....just kidding. I for one have never subscribed to the conspiracy theories surrounding the Clinton's except for the the cloud Bill Clinton created over what the meaning of IS is.
> 
> Karl


Fair enough. So your position is that Bush simply mis-spoke?


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

JLPWCXIII,

Probably, though I don't claim to have a window on the man's soul. Amazing how the anti-Bush crowd (and I am no fan, having been a steadfast supporter of McCain since the 2000 primaries) can claim that Bush is both a brain dead idiot and an evil genius who can orchestrate international conspiracies. 

Karl


----------



## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

JLPWCXIII said:


> here we have startling evidence that he claims to have 'seen the first plane hit the tower'


JLPWCXIII, not to be a pain in the neck but did you read the responses on the first page? Omitting "that" does not make it startling evidence.

MrR


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> JLPWCXIII,
> 
> Probably, though I don't claim to have a window on the man's soul. Amazing how the anti-Bush crowd (and I am no fan, having been a steadfast supporter of McCain since the 2000 primaries) can claim that Bush is both a brain dead idiot and an evil genius who can orchestrate international conspiracies.
> 
> Karl


Note, too, that the title of the thread isn't 'Bush Planned?' but 'Bush Knew?'


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

MrRogers said:


> JLPWCXIII, not to be a pain in the neck but did you read the responses on the first page? Omitting "that" does not make it startling evidence.
> 
> MrR


I read them all. They seemed to be variations on the theme of 'who cares?' I find this response to be quite odd...unless some posted a reply without watching the clip, which I do not doubt.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

JLPW, Yes, I always ride upstream a spell before drinking even the clearest water. You never know for certain if a dead animal is putrefying to the point of slipping hair and wiggling with maggots where it drowned. Conspiracy theories are probably much like urban myths. A sociologist/anthropologist/psychologist could probably talk forever on the reasons we as a world culture embrace such contemporary folklores. We even have supermarket tabloids proclaiming Hitler is alive in a secret Antarctic bunker plotting his return, AND PEOPLE BUY THEM. I suppose when the unthinkable happens; the gracefull Dianna no longer gracefull in a crushed mercedes or jet planes deliberately crashed into buildings we reach for equally unthinkable, irrational reasons. It's to horrible to consider a mundane cause. We cannot accept a mere Oswald destroying Camelot. We need a Mordred, be it Castro, L.B.J. the Mafia or C.I.A. A mere Oswald is to- common, like the people we live with daily. Thats to close for comfort for some of us. My answer, instead of paranoia is to be UNCOMMON, not elitist, just that guy wearing pocket Squares and Guerlain Imperiale ;o)


----------



## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

JLPWCXIII said:


> I read them all. They seemed to be variations on the theme of 'who cares?' I find this response to be quite odd...unless some posted a reply without watching the clip, which I do not doubt.


Stating that they do not agree with your interpretation does not equate to "not caring." In light of the ridicoulous comments that W seems to make everywhere he goes, omitting the word "that" does not seem to be groundbreaking, startling evidence to those of us firmly planted in reality.

mrr


----------



## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

JLPW, in your opinion, who shot JFK? I find that the answer to that question reveals a great deal about someone's assumptions, use of the facts, and perspective, which in all likelihood would help me better analyze your take on "Bush knew."


----------



## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

Following up on Karl's point, here's my favorite question for the American and International Left. Is George Bush: 


An evil genius who is capable of faking international intelligence reports to start wars that benefit his friends in the military/industrial complex and who is privy to plots to destroy skyscrapers and commercial jetliners resulting in the death of thousands, all to advance the nefarious ends of his fellow conspirators? Or
A blithering idiot of a dunce who can barely speak English, incapable of pronouncing the word "nuclear" (he's too stupid to keep using that pronunciation only because he knows the Leftist intellectuals go berserk every time they hear it, right?), who is always forgetting himself and letting slip telling references to the evil plots of his corporate masters, and whose wealthy and connected father bought for him an undergraduate degree from Yale, an MBA from Harvard, the governorship of Texas, and the U.S. presidency?
Do you suppose there's a third possibility?


----------



## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

rojo said:


> [*]A blithering idiot of a dunce who can barely speak English, incapable of pronouncing the word "nuclear" (he's too stupid to keep using that pronunciation only because he knows the Leftist intellectuals go berserk every time they hear it, right?), who is always forgetting himself and letting slip telling references to the evil plots of his corporate masters, and whose wealthy and connected father bought for him an undergraduate degree from Yale, an MBA from Harvard, the governorship of Texas, and the U.S. presidency?[/LIST]Do you suppose there's a third possibility?




I think when most people point to Bush's lack of intelligence, they mean stupid compared with other U.S. presidents of our lifetime, not stupid compared with Americans in general.


----------



## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

crs said:


> I think when most people point to Bush's lack of intelligence, they mean stupid compared with other U.S. presidents of our lifetime, not stupid compared with Americans in general.


How do they really know?


----------



## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

rojo said:


> How do they really know?


They don't. But except for Gerald Ford -- and in his case, I recall the comments as being mostly by comedians and mostly about his tripping and stumbling than mental lapses -- I can't think of a president in the past 100 years whose intelligence was routinely questioned. I don't think GWB is stupid, but someone has to be the least intelligent president of all time, and which president would you choose if not GWB?


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

crs said:


> They don't. But except for Gerald Ford -- and in his case, I recall the comments as being mostly by comedians and mostly about his tripping and stumbling than mental lapses -- I can't think of a president in the past 100 years whose intelligence was routinely questioned. I don't think GWB is stupid, but someone has to be the least intelligent president of all time, and which president would you choose if not GWB?


Ford, Reagan, and Bush 43 have all been regularly criticized as morons. My father used to talk about his friend who had to fire Reagan from his job working for GE because of how stupid he was.

On the other hand, intelligence is no guarantor of success in the White House. Witness Carter, Nixon, Hoover, and Kennedy (interrupted term, but not much to show for it).


----------



## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

crs said:


> I don't think GWB is stupid, but someone has to be the least intelligent president of all time, and which president would you choose if not GWB?


I'm not going to speculate on that because, even if we were to agree, I can't tell that there's any benefit to actually finding an answer. One thing that disappoints me greatly about the American left, and I'm not yet convinced that this applies to you, although it applies to many, is their belief that excesses of intelligence can make up for deficits in judgment. I don't think that belief could be any further from the truth.


----------



## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

jackmccullough said:


> Ford, Reagan, and Bush 43 have all been regularly criticized as morons.


All Republicans. Perhaps that's an indication that Democrats lack better ammunition.


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

hopkins_student said:


> All Republicans. Perhaps that's an indication that Democrats lack better ammunition.


There were tons of other things we criticized the three of them for, including the Nixon pardon deal (you will never convince me there wasn't a deal), the fact that in all his years in Congress Ford opposed every piece of civil rights legislation that came up, Reagan's war on the poor and cozying up to plutocrats and dictators here and abroad, and Bush's numerous crimes.

Maybe what it proves is that smart candidates don't appeal to Republicans.


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

crs said:


> They don't. But except for Gerald Ford -- and in his case, I recall the comments as being mostly by comedians and mostly about his tripping and stumbling than mental lapses -- I can't think of a president in the past 100 years whose intelligence was routinely questioned. I don't think GWB is stupid, but someone has to be the least intelligent president of all time, and which president would you choose if not GWB?


Hey, if Ford was a little dim he at least had a good excuse: he played four years of Big Ten football back when the headgear was more or less worthless. God only knows how many concussions he suffered while playing center with a leather bag on his head. In either event, presidential intelligence is a vastly overrated virtue. The office doesn't require a great intellect, and, as others have noted, individual brilliance is no guarantor of success once the office is attained. Those qualities of mind constituting so-called "social intelligence" would seem to be of much greater value to the aspiring chief executive than would a tip-top brain. A combination of the two would be ideal, of course, but that is rare in any field, much less in elective politics.


----------



## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

LBJ was the one who rode Ford the hardest, but that was, of course, well before Ford's presidency. From Johnson we have such gems as:

Ford played football without a helmet too long.
Ford can't walk and fart at the same time.
Ford's economics is the worst thing to happen to this country since pantyhose ruined finger-f*cking.

.
.
.
Invective today is much less artistic.


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Concordia said:


> LBJ was the one who rode Ford the hardest, but that was, of course, well before Ford's presidency. From Johnson we have such gems as:
> 
> Ford played football without a helmet too long.
> 
> ...


The last doesn't sound like Lyndon; but the first three are priceless.


----------



## Jimmy G (Mar 23, 2006)

Here's George Bush showcasing his intellectual dexterity.

www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/videos/bush-sovereignty.html


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

rojo said:


> JLPW, in your opinion, who shot JFK? I find that the answer to that question reveals a great deal about someone's assumptions, use of the facts, and perspective, which in all likelihood would help me better analyze your take on "Bush knew."


I don't know who all shot JFK. Oswald may have been one of the shooters, but there isn't enough evidence to say for certain. Some say he was elsewhere at the time, and was a scapegoat.


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

crs said:


> They don't. But except for Gerald Ford -- and in his case, I recall the comments as being mostly by comedians and mostly about his tripping and stumbling than mental lapses -- I can't think of a president in the past 100 years whose intelligence was routinely questioned. I don't think GWB is stupid, but someone has to be the least intelligent president of all time, and which president would you choose if not GWB?


Ford slipped on wet metal stairs, and Bush choked on pretzels. I think Ford is at least an order of magnitude smarter than Bush.


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Concordia said:


> LBJ was the one who rode Ford the hardest, but that was, of course, well before Ford's presidency. From Johnson we have such gems as:
> 
> Ford played football without a helmet too long.
> 
> ...


Johnson was a sociopathic cad. Someone of his type becoming President should have immediately ignited a new Constitutional Convention.


----------

