# Weight loss encouragement. Warning: fat man picture.



## DLW (Jun 4, 2013)

It is time to lose weight! Doctor put me on BP pills because of it. No other serious heath concerns as of yet, I have physical in 10 days, who knows. All my weight is in my stomach area. I was 50lbs over weight to begin with, now that is has been almost a year since I quit smoking, I’ve gained another 50lbs. I’m 5ft 6in tall and 253lbs is not my ideal weight. I have been trying to eat better and walk. I get so discouraged with the process. I walk 5 miles a day for a month or so and drop 10lbs the first two weeks, two to three weeks later I have not dropped another pound. I get discouraged give up, put the weight back on, and then start all over again a month later. I’m inspired to post this after reading that Ruben, Dr. Livingston, and others have lost. What did others do to get past the discouragement?

I have another question as well. When I lose this weight, does shoulder width change as well as arm pit-to-pit measurement. What other things do I need to factor in?

I am hesitant to post this picture, as it is hard to put myself out here like this, let alone be my first picture. I’m sure some will scoff and ridicule so be it, it is what it is but I need some encouragement. I would like to open up my closet one day and actually post in the WAYW thread for some feedback.


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## Fiddlermatt (Jul 3, 2013)

I've dropped about 20 pounds over the summer, with moderately better eating practices and exercise. It stinks when you get stuck at one weight and cant seem to get passed it. Either fewer calories or exercise more, it's really the only way. Since you're a little overweight, you might have pain issues with doing enough walking/running to really drop the pounds; have you considered cycling? When it was cooler, and I was cycling 10 or so miles a day, I really dropped the weight fast. 

On your actual question, my p2p measurement has dropped about 2 inches (I store a lot of fat in my chest) since losing about 20 pounds. Shoulder measurements pretty much the same.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

You should not be embarrassed! You should be applauded! Just quitting smoking is a HUGE challenge. The #1 most addictive substance on the planet is nicotine. Heroin is #2. Seriously. https://addictions.knoji.com/top-ten-most-addictive-substances/

So, congratulations on quitting smoking. If you have the resolve to do that, you can tackle the weight. I need to lose weight too. And I'm encouraged by the stories I have heard. Just keep walking, and pretty soon you will walk faster and faster and then, you'll be running.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

I applaud your efforts and can tell you that if you stick with an exercise plan and watch the number of calories you consume, the weight loss WILL happen. 

Close to two years ago, I got tired of feeling heavy and having borderline high blood pressure. I vowed to change that. So I started exercising 3x week and measuring the food I ate according to the serving size listed on food packaging. For example, when getting a bowl of cereal in the morning, I used to just fill the bowl and munch away. Now, I only put 1 cup of cereal in the bowl. Now I know EXACTLY how many calories I consume. 

Cardiovascular machines really helped me burn calories and build stamina. If you choose to do this, I suggest getting approval from your physician and starting slowly. Build up from there a few minutes each week. Treadmill walking is also part of my regimen. In less than a year, I went from 181 pounds to about 155 (I'm 5-9). I feel a hell of a lot better and have more energy. 

Losing weight meant having to rebuild almost my entire wardrobe. I went from not being able to wear my size 40 suit, to fitting in the suit perfectly, to selling the suit because it became too big. I saw a drop in shoulder and chest sizing. I also went from a size 36 waist to 33/34. 

Best of luck with your weight loss plan! It is not always easy but the results from sustained effort makes it very worthwhile.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

It's all good, brother! You have to start somewhere. My advice to you is to not do anything drastic. Add changes to your diet and exercise regimen gradually. As for your measurements, EVERYTHING will change. Even your socks will fit differently. You don't realize the bloated proportions that you have inflicted upon your body until you start to lose weight. It is amazing to see (and feel) the transformation. Subtle things that you weren't able to do are suddenly attainable. For me, being Catholic, I wasn't able to use the kneeler because it put too much pressure on my knees. Now, no problem. It's the little things that make weight loss worthwhile. And, just so you know, I still have a loooooooong way to go before I can consider myself to be anywhere near my ideal weight. Weight loss is a marathon... not a sprint. Changing your diet is only one part of the equation.


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## Serenus (Jun 19, 2009)

It is very hard to do what you are doing and all I can say is stick with it and make it happen. I see overweight people at the gym often and every time I see somebody like this it makes me very happy because that person is there, doing something to make a difference. Unfortunately some ignorant people will scoff but for every insensitive person there are probably 10 who will support you!

No matter where you are there will always be somebody who can lift more, run faster or ride longer than you, so the key is to set your own goals and achieve them. I quit smoking too (never did it a lot but still...) because I liked running better and have not looked back. I even had a damn nice looking pipe...

Congratulations and best wishes!


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## DLW (Jun 4, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> Weight loss is a marathon... not a sprint. Changing your diet is only one part of the equation.


Thank you for these words. I'm going to put this on my screen saver.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

I bought a cheap little postage scale, a calorie counting app, and a couch to 5k app. I input exactly how much I ate each day, down to the exact milligram and including any free samples and "tastes". Initially I aimed for a ~500 calorie daily deficit, for a pound a week of weight loss, and after a while I upped that to 800-1200 daily deficit for two pounds a week. Over the course of the summer I've gone from nearly sedentary to running 35 miles a week and I've dropped ~55 lbs and 4-5" from my waist along the way. Sounds like a lot, but I did it one small step at a time, with more than a few backslides along the way. It's been worth it though, the trick knee's not giving me nearly as much trouble, the bum shoulder feels better and I've got about a quarter of an abb to boot. If you want a good idea of exactly how much of a difference it's made physically, I ran across a pair of my old jeans last week, needless to say they don't quite fit anymore:


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

My turning point was the purchase of a used copy of this book: . Do something physically difficult every day (or 6 of 7), for at least, oh, 24 minutes. I can't run, with flat feet, but this book changed my life. Putting on _functional _muscle allowed me to do more exercise, and more kinds. Forget about weight machines; forget about weights. I have no equipment in my house. If you can't do pushups now, put your hands on a chair and do them.

5 years ago, I could do 6 pushups. It took me 18 mos. to get up to 20.

I cycle, but I don't advise it: it depends on economy of motion, meaning that your goal as a cyclist is _not_ to burn calories. A more varied workout will get you further, I'd say.


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## Piqué (Apr 10, 2014)

Reuben said:


> ...and I've got about a quarter of an abb to boot...


Now THAT'S funny! :biggrin:


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Best of luck to you! I lost 35 lbs between December and April (195-160), and a couple years ago my wife lost 40 lbs. Diet was absolutely the key thing that helped both of us jumpstart our weight loss. It wasn't anything drastic (like a crash diet), but simply more leaner meats/more vegetables/more fruit, less carbs, and limiting portion sizes (no going back for seconds). The mindset you have to get into with food is that you're not going on a diet, but changing your diet. You also have to start looking at food as fuel- once we started doing that, eliminating junk from our diets became much easier. Portion control also became easier, because we trained ourselves over time to eat the amount we needed, instead of gorging until we couldn't move. I don't know if you're married or not, but the biggest help for me to lose my weight was encouragement from my wife. She and i now keep each other honest with food- since we don't keep junk around the house, we have to keep each other accountable on portion size. Also, eliminate soft drinks- that stuff does nothing positive for you. I personally drink a gallon of water a day, and I make fun of myself of WAYWT for my coffee intake, but it has no sugar or creamer in it.

making one more comment on carbs, the biggest pre weight loss lie I used to tell myself was that I was doing okay on food because I didn't have a sweet tooth, so I wasn't eating sugar. However, I was ingesting 3-500 g of carbs a day- drinking a 2 liter soft drink a day might've been better for me honestly lol. Don't try to eliminate carbs or go on a specialty diet, but do limit your intake of breads and pastas.

from someone whose been there, it's difficult to lose weight and change your lifestyle, no doubt about it. But I'll tell you, my wife and I went from eating a whole pizza APIECE for dinner 3 nights a week, to where we are now- down a collective 75-80 lbs, I run 6-8 miles a day, she does Crossfit 4 days a week, and were running our first 1/2 marathon in January. It was absolutely a difficult journey, but completely worth it.

also, not as drastic as some of the guys on here, but I went from a 37" to a 32". This was a pair that I used to wear (and would be straining on me) when I was first posting here:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...D-4D70-836F-AA1D8487FBEB_zpstkl1k9ya.jpg.html


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Losing fast and then not at all for awhile is not only common but typical. IMO and experience, the key is to do the constructive things each day (count calories, only ingest nutritional ones, do _*practically any form*_ of exercise) and don't even think about the future, or the scales. Just keep it up and let your clothes and energy levels tell you how you're doing.

You didn't gain it all in just a couple of months, no reason to think you can lose it all in that time.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Piqué said:


> Now THAT'S funny! :biggrin:


Hey! Don't make fun of my partial ab, you might scare it back into hiding.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm constantly yo-yoing with my weight. Most people don't understand how hard it is to lose weight. It sucks when your body and brain fight over what you can and can not eat. My body revolts, and I can't process many foods the same way most people can, so I can't eat like others. 

A couple of things that have helped me, when I stick to it, may be helpful. I discovered that it is more important to monitor what, and how much goes in. I keep a food diary. There are several smart phone apps that allow you to log your meals, and track your intake. Also, I visited a nutritionist, and for a while met with her regularly while I got on track, and gained an understanding of what I needed to do. May be an option for you. Check with your PCP, and see if you can get a referal. And, like we all know, keep moving. I like to run, and cycle. It's important to find what works for you. If you cycle it'll probably be helpful if you use a cycle computer with a heart monitor because you need to keep your heart rate in the aerobic range, and its easy on a bike to grind it out and get an anaerobic work out.

Most importantly, make sustainable changes. I yo-yo because I tend to make changes that are a lttle too radical, and can't maintain them. Well, that and a love for French food.

good luck.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Nobleprofessor said:


> You should not be embarrassed! You should be applauded! Just quitting smoking is a HUGE challenge. *The #1 most addictive substance on the planet is nicotine. Heroin is #2. Seriously*. https://addictions.knoji.com/top-ten-most-addictive-substances/
> 
> So, congratulations on quitting smoking. If you have the resolve to do that, you can tackle the weight. I need to lose weight too. And I'm encouraged by the stories I have heard. Just keep walking, and pretty soon you will walk faster and faster and then, you'll be running.


If you will forgive my candour, that 'fact' is pure BS.

Anyway, on topic. Prepare everything you eat yourself, as far as possible, from the basic ingredients. No take-aways, no fast-food, no ready-meals, no junk food, no snacks nor heavily processed ingredients. Practice restricted calorific intake. Also consider vegetarianism.

No food tastes as good as being slim feels. :thumbs-up:


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## dkoernert (May 31, 2011)

Thanks for posting OP. I am currently struggling with this myself. I am the heaviest I have ever been right now at 5'11" 215 lbs and a 37 waist is pretty snug. Just about 3 years ago when I was cycling competitively I weighed about 170, so that just shows how much I put on in a pretty short amount of time. I know that my #1 problem is the booze. I love good beer and I'm not a have just one kind of guy. Then of course that leads to the binge eating that comes after the drinking. I believe cutting out the booze will help me dramatically. I love lifting too so I plan to get back into that and hopefully hit my goal of 170 again before I know it. Myfitnesspal has helped me out a lot in the past with the nutritional monitoring.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Shaver said:


> If you will forgive my candour, that 'fact' is pure BS.
> 
> Anyway, on topic. Prepare everything you eat yourself, as far as possible, from the basic ingredients. No take-aways, no fast-food, no ready-meals, no junk food, no snacks nor heavily processed ingredients. Practice restricted calorific intake. Also consider vegetarianism.
> 
> No food tastes as good as being slim feels. :thumbs-up:


Huge +1 to all of this. In changing our lifestyle, my wife and I have ended up being almost vegetarian (no red meat- about the only meat we eat is grilled chicken). Also, Flairball's comment about tracking and logging is a good one. I use MyFitnessPal to track food intake and Endomondo to track running. MFP is neat because you can scan barcodes to come up with nutrition info. They're pricy, but you may also look into a fitness band of some sort. We're looking at getting either the FitBit or the Jawbone Up24 to track our walking/running/sleep data (my company also has a healthcare initiative that uses a website for tracking fitness- FitBit automatically syncs with it).


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

I found this book very inspiring:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2752095/

Available on Amazon both in ink and paper or Kindle versions.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Of course, you could eat red meat three meals a day and still lose weight, you just have to watch your portions a lot more carefully. I eat a lot of venison, it's leaner and healthier in general than beef


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Reuben said:


> Of course, you could eat red meat three meals a day and still lose weight, you just have to watch your portions a lot more carefully. I eat a lot of venison, it's leaner and healthier in general than beef
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm also big on venison--if I can talk the wife into freeing up the freezer space, might get two deer this year instead of one. Any health advantages are entirely eclipsed by Scotch.


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## Bookman (May 19, 2010)

congratulations on taking the first step! I lost about 75 pounds a few years ago. Shoulder size stayed fairly static; but, there are certain limits to what tailors can do with large weight losses (+25 pounds). Plateaus are a reality of weight loss...but, you will certainly break through them if you are consistent with diet and exercise. I would suggest two things: 1) consider using a personal trainer for a short time if it has been a long while since you regularly exercised (he/she can recommend workouts that will promote weight loss without hurting you), and, 2) Don't, in a period of celebration, discard all of your pants/coats from a slightly larger weight when you hit your goal...small slides back are normal. Best of luck!


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## red_shift (Aug 8, 2013)

Tweed McVay - You can do this and we're all here to support you. I went from 333lbs to 170lbs over the last 4.5 years and it's something that takes a change in lifestyle, not just a change in diet. Everyone has posted a lot of good advice so far.

Here are my methods:


Calculate your sedentary calorie needs - Mayo Clinic's Calorie Calculator Website
Subtract 500 calories per day for -1lbs per week or 1000 calories per day for -2lbs per week
Weigh yourself daily and track all consumption (down to coffee creamers [20 calories per creamer btw] and mustard [5 calories per tsp])
Aim for your goal number each day and you'll see results. As you start to lose weight and feel more fit, introduce light exercise and continue as your body allows.

The side effect of tracking what you take in is that it gets very difficult to be honest about eating food you haven't prepared. It's tough to say how much a salad or burger from your local diner really is calorie wise and it's very easy to overshoot your daily goal eating restaurant food. For moral and health reasons I've converted to vegetarian as well. The side effect of that is I can eat a greater quantity of food (meat, especially red meat, is very calorie dense) and it keeps me away from a bacon cheesburger when I'm out with family or colleagues.

Don't worry about plateaus, they will happen and when they do make sure that you *honestly* evaluate what you've been taking in and adjust from there. There's no reason to beat yourself up for yesterday if you're making changes today.



orange fury said:


> We're looking at getting either the FitBit or the Jawbone Up24 to track our walking/running/sleep data (my company also has a healthcare initiative that uses a website for tracking fitness- FitBit automatically syncs with it).


I've had luck with the FitBit One but like all fitness trackers you get what you give. I set a goal of 6,000 steps per day and it's nice to have a gauge of what I've done for the day, plus the historical data from the app and website. I haven't found any calorie count trackers that work better than pen and paper.


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## dkoernert (May 31, 2011)

+1 on the Fitbit recommendation above. The only thing I will add is that I have a Fitbit One and hate the fabric band you have to use for the sleep tracking. For that reason if I had to do it over again, I'd probably get the Flex.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

red_shift said:


> I've had luck with the FitBit One but like all fitness trackers you get what you give. I set a goal of 6,000 steps per day and it's nice to have a gauge of what I've done for the day, plus the historical data from the app and website. I haven't found any calorie count trackers that work better than pen and paper.


Thanks for the rec, weve been leaning more towards the FitBit actually and have been looking at the Flex (so we don't have to worry about forgetting to carry it).

per vegetarianism, part of the draw for me is that I can eat a ton of vegetables (albeit, low startch- spinach, grilled onions/peppers, etc), and the calorie content is far lower than eating an equal amount of meat or grains (helps with cholesterol too). Beware of too much fruit though- even though the sugar is better for you than the processed/refined crap that's shoved into most packaged foods, too much fruit is still loading you down with a lot of sugar. My motto is "moderation in everything".


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## racebannon (Aug 17, 2014)

You look great! Well done!


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## red_shift (Aug 8, 2013)

dkoernert said:


> +1 on the Fitbit recommendation above. The only thing I will add is that I have a Fitbit One and hate the fabric band you have to use for the sleep tracking. For that reason if I had to do it over again, I'd probably get the Flex.


They changed that recently, now you can just clip it to your sleepwear and activate the stopwatch for sleep tracking. Then in the morning you stop the timer and the software recognizes that as sleep time when you sync. I think it's probably anything over 2 hours on the stopwatch counts as 'sleep'.


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## dkoernert (May 31, 2011)

red_shift said:


> They changed that recently, now you can just clip it to your sleepwear and activate the stopwatch for sleep tracking. Then in the morning you stop the timer and the software recognizes that as sleep time when you sync. I think it's probably anything over 2 hours on the stopwatch counts as 'sleep'.


Very good to know, thanks!


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## Knickerbocker (Aug 18, 2014)

This post made me pull the trigger to join....can't believe I got the great handle.....anyhow....I must say beer and cheese one or the other or both can really take a toll....plus the slippery slope of a buzz driving hunger and disabling ones good intentions...best luck..slow and steady wins the race..


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

racebannon said:


> You look great! Well done!


You do realize that this is a current thread?


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

I have been around the martial arts and fitness activities all my life, so have no direct experience with the need to lose weight. However, I have trained a great many people and helped some of them make themselves lose weight. I recommend two recent books, _Body by Science_, by Doug McGuff, MD and _Bodyfat Breakthrough_, by Ellington Darden. Amazon has both. They document what most of us have known and practiced for years. To what these authors teach, I would add a personal, practiced technique that reflects my experience that overweight people must eat *much* less than they anticipate. Pick your idea weight. Add a zero to the number of pounds. When you have eaten that many calories, stop eating for the day. It's awful, but it works. Good luck.


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## DLW (Jun 4, 2013)

I am having trouble putting words together tonight as I appreciate the warm, thoughtful, sincere outpouring of support you gentlemen have shown me. I am truly humbled, by your words of encouragement and heartfelt suggestions. I want to express to all of you that each response is taken, with an open and willing mind, to help me achieve my goal. Thank you again for your words. One would expect no less from a group of gentlemen as yourselves.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Ricky Gervais started at 48: https://www.menshealth.co.uk/living/men/mh-interview-ricky-gervais, and if you've seen the old Ricky, you know where he started. He describes his workout as a 1950's high-school wrestling workout: lots of situps, bear walks, etc. Btw, the problem with walking is that it gets easier: you need to find a workout that can increase in difficulty w/o costing you more time.


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## ytc (Mar 20, 2012)

Good luck on your weight loss. I've lost about 14 lbs since July.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Congratulations on starting your weight loss journey. Personally, I've lost 45 lbs. and 5 inches from my waist since last winter. It's not an easy thing to take on at any stage of life, but the rewards are well worth it. Most of the comments have offered great advice as far as eating and exercise. I think Orange Fury made a great point about changing the way you view food. For the average Western man (or woman), food is an addiction. There are so many chemicals and so few nutrients in the average western diet, that it's no wonder I and many others simply couldn't put down the bag or box or tub or sleeve or whatever processed food container I happened to be holding. I don't subscribe to any one type of diet, but eliminating processed food and focusing on eating things as close to their natural state as possible did wonders for me. My own body started telling me what it did and didn't like (my body is fine with gluten, After a while, food stops having any power and simply becomes the way you fuel your body. It's no less enjoyable (often, it's much more so) but it loses the compulsive aspect. Psychologically, it's an amazing feeling to know you have regained control of your own body. 

As far as clothing, the best advice I can give you is to buy inexpensive items until you've reached your goal and/or your weight has remained stable for several months. I was so excited when I lost a few inches from my waist that I went and bought several hundred dollars worth of new pants, only to have to replace them a few months later.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Oh, and if you're looking for an easy and quick breakfast shake, I go with a serving of generic protein powder and two each of ovaltine, malt powder, instant coffee and generic water-soluable fiber mixed in a quart mason jar with water. It's a good 2-1 carb/protein ratio for post-morning-run recovery, the coffee adds a little extra caffeine and flavor, and the fiber helps keep me full until lunch. Comes in at about 450 calories for breakfast and carries me from six until noon pretty easily, maybe some wheat bread with a tablespoon of peanut butter (200~ish calories) or greek yogurt with fruit (~100-150 calories) and a black coffee (~5 calories) if I get ridiculously hungry around 10:00 or so. I've found the full-fat versions of yogurt have about the same caloric content per serving, maybe 10 or 20 more calories, but prove significantly more filling.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Tweed McVay said:


> I am having trouble putting words together tonight as I appreciate the warm, thoughtful, sincere outpouring of support you gentlemen have shown me. I am truly humbled, by your words of encouragement and heartfelt suggestions. I want to express to all of you that each response is taken, with an open and willing mind, to help me achieve my goal. Thank you again for your words. One would expect no less from a group of gentlemen as yourselves.


I think everyone would agree with me in saying that it's a pleasure to help in any way we can. One facet that I don't think is being discussed enough- but is absolutely critical to your success- is support from the people around you. Create a network of people you can surround yourself with (friends, family, us) that will be positive influences and encouraging to you. I'll be honest, when I started losing weight and working towards being healthier, I had a friend who would constantly make fun of me or berate me for food choices (I enjoy salads, I would order a dinner salad at a restaurant, and my food choices would somehow be stupid). Once I started visibly losing weight and dropping waist and shirt sizes, the jokes about my new eating habits turned into legitimate anger/bitterness/resentment towards me, since I was losing weight and he had gained weight. Because of the obviously sensitive nature of the topic of weight, I make it a point to not bring it up around other people, but it eventually (with him) turned into consistent resentment towards me anytime I would wear a fitted shirt/would order a healthy option etc (like it was a nonverbal attack against him). When I was at 170, he and I were at a gas station, and for the first time I was wearing a Cornelliani polo that I had never been able to wear before without having a visible spare tire (it was a "goal shirt" for me). At this gas station, the clerk started making unsolicited comments about how good I looked in the shirt and how in shape I had to be to pull something like that off- it was great vindication after losing (at that point) 25 lbs., and it made my day to have my physical shape commented on positively for the first time since high school. However, I became a target for the guy I was with for the rest of the day because he took it as a personal offense against him (irrational, I know).

my point to all this is that your weight loss is something you do for yourself, not for anyone else. My situation was odd in that it's unusual IMHO to have someone actually attack you for losing weight and bettering yourself, but ion the off chance you receive backlash because you get chicken when everyone else is getting a burger, or you turn down that second beer, or you have something grilled instead of fried, etc, remember that your weight loss is for you, not them. As I've been finding out, as you improve physically, you'll start embracing wellness and fulfillment in other areas of your life, which for me has translated into a lower tolerance for toxic relationships and negativity. Best of luck to you, and we're here for you! :thumbs-up:


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Wow, Fury, with friends like that...

Tweed, you might consider joining a cycling club or taking up a martial art (not at a dojo filled with preteens, though), in order to be around some more positive influences. Those activities have a natural progression in difficulty. I have never heard any disparagement in such contexts. I do jiu jitsu under a direct student of Helio Gracie (i.e. the expectations are high, and the students are very serious) , and I have never heard _anything_ but encouragement. The fact is, I'm not very good at it. Wrestling is hard to learn later in life.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Also, three pieces of unsolicited advice:

1) avoid places that you know are going to be tempting to you. To this day, even though I don't eat red meat anymore, I won't go in a Whataburger because, like Pavlov's Dog, I'll end up ordering the 1,200 calorie Chop House Cheddar Burger, like I used to every time I went there. I don't eat fast food at all anymore, but I still avoid that place like the plague.

2) I'll respectfully disagree with another poster, and suggest that you ditch your old bigger clothes once they no longer fit. My wife and I have both kept one pair of our largest pants around to remind ourselves where we came from, but keeping anything else would provide us with an easy out if we started gaining weight again ("at least we don't have to buy new clothes since we already have clothes that fit" etc). I loved being able to fit into a cotton chino Banana Republic suit that always fit too tight, but I don't want that to ever go the other direction. Some back slide and variation is normal, but significant jumps (when I went from a 16 neck to a 15 neck) should be an excuse to purge your inventory. I do agree with the earlier comment about buying cheaper clothes until you reach your goal- thrift shops and sales racks are your friend here.

3) learn to like water- it's overkill, but I drink a gallon or more a day (purely because I like it better than other beverages). For something as simple as water is, just keeping hydrated can keep you full, helps you more efficiently process food, helps your joints and muscles function properly...the list goes on. That's something you won't get from soft drinks or sport drinks. Also, on the topic of hunger, many times when you feel "hungry", it's actually your body telling you that it's getting dehydrated. I found that drinking more water isn't just taking up space to create the illusion of fullness, it's that you weren't actually hungry in the first place.

I wasn't sure initially about posting this, but because you put your cards on the table and posted a picture on the first post, I'll man up and post before and after pics of myself. The left is from the beach in August 2013 where I was at 195 lbs, had been declared by my doctor to be officially medically obese, and a hair away from being Type II diabetic. The right is a picture of me at a beach this past June at 160 lbs:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...2-4087-A049-2BF95665D48B_zpstupveibc.jpg.html

"weight loss" is a journey until you hit your goal, the journey immediately after that is a lifelong one in pursuit of maintaining good health. Overall wellness, not a number, is your ultimate goal.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SlideGuitarist said:


> Wow, Fury, with friends like that...


Yeah lol, as I said, my wife and I have less tolerance now for toxicity and negativity in our life and have been forging friendships that are positive influences in our life


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

By coincidence BBC2 broadcast this yesterday evening - Horizon: Should I eat meat? The big health dilemma.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episo...15-1-should-i-eat-meat-the-big-health-dilemma


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## challer (Sep 4, 2008)

I will second what Shaver has suggested, having gone from 239 to 200 on the way to 190 in just six months after years of not attending to my health responsibly. Eliminating sugar, simple carbohydrates and soy protein from your diet will do more for you weight than anything else, and they are in nearly all processed foods and most chain restaurants. For a strongly documented discussion on diets that work, backed by medical trials, I recommend "Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It." You can eat excellent food in good quantity if you eat the right things. Start reading labels.

I continue with cardio and resistance training not to lose weight, but to improve core strength and endurance lost due to years of weekly international travel.

As to your other question, most suits still fit, with alteration. You will need to become friends with a good tailor and plan a rotation of your best clothes through the shop at key points in your weight loss. Some clothes will be a write off. You will need new shirts as you go but they are a good way to reward key milestones.

MyFitnessPal is a great tool to track food intake, activity, and progress.



Shaver said:


> If you will forgive my candour, that 'fact' is pure BS.
> 
> Anyway, on topic. Prepare everything you eat yourself, as far as possible, from the basic ingredients. No take-aways, no fast-food, no ready-meals, no junk food, no snacks nor heavily processed ingredients. Practice restricted calorific intake. Also consider vegetarianism.
> 
> No food tastes as good as being slim feels. :thumbs-up:


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## darkmark (Feb 11, 2014)

There is a lot of good advice given so far. I myself have lost 45 lbs over the last couple of months.

One thing that has keep me motivated on my journey is to set small goals. If your goal is 50 lbs lost, that may seem like a very daunting task. However, if you break it up into ten 5lb increments, it certainly seems more attainable and you will start to gain momentum going forward. Reward yourself when you reach those goals. I recently bought a nice (but inexpensive) sport coat from Tweedydon as a reward to myself. It doesn't fit yet, but every morning that I see it in my closet, it's motivation to make good choices throughout the day.

Good luck on your journey and remember, slow and steady wins the race.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Holy smokes, OF... I had to look at the pictures 10 times before I realized that you were even in the photos. :biggrin:


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

A lot of encouragement here.My suggestion:go Atkins. Many have alluded to it but low carb is the way to go.High fat low carb and you will lose weight.The Gary Taubes sight is good too. Exercise is important for a variety of reasons but to lose weight going low carb is probably the surest way.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

shadow wilson said:


> A lot of encouragement here.My suggestion:go Atkins. Many have alluded to it but low carb is the way to go.High fat low carb and you will lose weight.The Gary Taubes sight is good too. Exercise is important for a variety of reasons but to lose weight going low carb is probably the surest way.


Low-carb is not "the way to go." Not for everybody. There are plenty of paths to reaching weight loss and health goals through diet. Many will champion whatever method got them results as the be-all, end-all of dieting and they will defend it to the death. A more helpful and balanced approach to someone wishing to lose weight would be to help them take a look at what many of these diets have in common: avoiding processed, refined food-like products in favor of whole, natural foods, increasing the intake of leafy greens and vegetables and eating all things in moderation. Later on, if someone finds that their body responds more positively to the avoidance of certain foods like dairy, red meat, cooked food, or even carbs they can further tailor their personal diet for best results.

BTW, welcome to the forum.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Yeah, giving up carbs isn't happening here. I go through a good two or three loaves of bread a week by myself. There's this fantastic bakery just around the corner that makes the best breads and pastries. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

hardline_42 said:


> Low-carb is not "the way to go." Not for everybody. There are plenty of paths to reaching weight loss and health goals through diet. Many will champion whatever method got them results as the be-all, end-all of dieting and they will defend it to the death. A more helpful and balanced approach to someone wishing to lose weight would be to help them take a look at what many of these diets have in common: avoiding processed, refined food-like products in favor of whole, natural foods, increasing the intake of leafy greens and vegetables and eating all things in moderation. Later on, if someone finds that their body responds more positively to the avoidance of certain foods like dairy, red meat, cooked food, or even carbs they can further tailor their personal diet for best results.
> 
> BTW, welcome to the forum.


+1 to all this, the main reason I went low carb was because I was so high-carb previously that I was a hair away from becoming type II diabetic. Everyone needs different things and responds differently to food types and groups, even over time- my avoidance of red meat now is because my body doesn't react well to it anymore. That doesn't mean that's right for everyone or anyone.

The he thing that DOES apply across the board is my mantra of "moderation in everything, everything in moderation". Watch your portions, treat food as fuel, don't eat until you can't move...those are the keys not to a diet (which can be temporary), but to a lifestyle change (which can be permanent).


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

orange fury said:


> +1 to all this, the main reason I went low carb was because I was so high-carb previously that I was a hair away from becoming type II diabetic. Everyone needs different things and responds differently to food types and groups, even over time- my avoidance of red meat now is because my body doesn't react well to it anymore. That doesn't mean that's right for everyone or anyone.
> 
> The he thing that DOES apply across the board is my mantra of "moderation in everything, everything in moderation". Watch your portions, treat food as fuel, don't eat until you can't move...those are the keys not to a diet (which can be temporary), but to a lifestyle change (which can be permanent).


Although I cap myself to around 60g of carbs (including fiber) per day, I wouldn't necessarily say low carb is anything close to a magic fix. The myth of a metabolic advantage is just a myth. Low carb diets do cause you to shed water weight, but that isn't necessarily a good thing as you can end up dehydrated if you aren't careful.

The only universal diet rypes are (1) Avoid hydrogenated oils and (2) if you're hungry, stuff yourself with non-starchy vegetables.

I personally think low carb is only useful to the extent that (1) you can handle a little more fat when cooking vegetables and (2) most meat is less calorically dense than most starches. You can eat pounds of brisket, but you can eat pounds of chicken and fish and slightly smaller quantities of reasonable cuts of pork and beef.

It helps if you like meat. I like the fact that, for me, I can eat a literal pound of chicken fajitas for dinner (without the tortilla, but with the cheese and sour cream) and it's only 600 or so calories. Th equivalent amount of good bread would be an entire day's worth of calories.

I disagree that natural whole foods are necessary or even desirable. Frankly, people should be less scared of processing, so long as the process is reasonably well regulated and transparent. You just have to be informed about what you're eating and not have stupid knee jerk reactions. For example, I love pork rinds. I eat a bag every day. They do me no harm. Fast food is also not inherently bad. In fact, most fast food restaurants publish their nutrition facts. It can be a lot easier to know what you're eating when it's from Chipotle than when it's from the local taqueria. Use that to your advantage, study the menus, and find something that fits into your scheme.

That said, I do agree that cooking is essential, if you measure your raw ingredients. More to the point, it's essential to make it really easy for yourself to make good choices. For me, this means cooking or prepping most of my meals, or the basic ingredients thereof every sunday. That way when I get home from work and I don't feel like cooking, it's just as easy to microwave the pulled pork I smoked over the weekend as it is to order carry out.

Bring your lunch, too.

Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

L-feld said:


> Although I cap myself to around 60g of carbs (including fiber) per day, I wouldn't necessarily say low carb is anything close to a magic fix. The myth of a metabolic advantage is just a myth. Low carb diets do cause you to shed water weight, but that isn't necessarily a good thing as you can end up dehydrated if you aren't careful.
> 
> The only universal diet rypes are (1) Avoid hydrogenated oils and (2) if you're hungry, stuff yourself with non-starchy vegetables.
> 
> ...


This is where diet is very personalized to the individual though. My problem with carbs was also a problem with portion control. This is the example I always use: when I was in college, I would eat ramen noodles (like everyone does). A brick of ramen is 2 servings, and 33g of carbs per serving (66g/brick). I would eat two bricks (132g carbs) for the main part of a meal, and I would eat that three meals/day (396g carbs). That would be in addition to the Taco Bell/Jack in the Box/Whataburger run I would make at least once a day, and the popcorn/chips/etc that I would eat as well. Point being, I would ingest on average 600g+ of carbs a day, which ultimately was processed into sugars. If I was watching a movie or something on a Friday night, I would easily eat a whole Little Caesars pepperoni pizza as well, which means that I had several 1,000g+ carb days (and God knows how many calories). I don't have a sweet tooth, so I was surprised to hear that I was a step away from diabetes, until I learned more about the way foods are processed by the human body.

We we don't avoid fast food or processed foods entirely, but when we do fast food it is something like Chipotle, where I can get a vegetarian burrito. As with anything though, what worked for me definitely isn't the end all/be all solution.


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## thegovteach (Dec 2, 2012)

Since March 2013 I have lost 125lbs. 
It was plain old hard work. Walked 3 miles a day, cut back on calories. 
My biggest problem was sweet drinks. Tea, Dr Pepper. 
avoiding breads, pasta, rice, potatoes are key...


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

I think it has been said already, but I'll say it again. It is different for everyone. I tried a lot of things in the past that others were having success with, but failed. Find what works for you. 

A couple of tid-bits. If you decide to start jogging, don't worry about speed or distance. Jog for a set time. If you are breathing so hard you can't talk, slow down. I jog with my dog, and it keeps me paced because I've got to keep her in control which means lots of dog commands, and extra "good girls" tossed in to monitor my breathing. 

On a treadmill (dreadmill) distract yourself with something that will take your mind off the work I use my iphone to watch a program on netfix, or listen to stand-up comedy on internet radio. Anything to avoid the minutes turning into hours.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Flairball said:


> On a treadmill (dreadmill) distract yourself with something that will take your mind off the work I use my iphone to watch a program on netfix, or listen to stand-up comedy on internet radio. Anything to avoid the minutes turning into hours.


^^X2! A boring workout will always be a short workout. I always watch my favorite shows on Hulu Plus on my cell phone while I am doing cardio. If I have nothing to watch or listen to, I will quickly tire of the exercise.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> ^^X2! A boring workout will always be a short workout. I always watch my favorite shows on Hulu Plus on my cell phone while I am doing cardio. If I have nothing to watch or listen to, I will quickly tire of the exercise.


I've downloaded an app called Zombies, run. Little audio play, little music, all-in-all a fun run for reuben.


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## ytc (Mar 20, 2012)

I have a dreadmill but it sucks so bad I can't use it. A four minute song suddenly turns into a never-ending 4 hour song.


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

You don't have to avoid meat.That is a myth.The fact is if you go low carb i.e. follow atkins or it's many derivatives you will lose weight fast. Of course good luck whatever you do

https://www.drfranklipman.com/big-fat-surprise-a-conversation-with-nina-teicholz/


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## red_shift (Aug 8, 2013)

shadow wilson said:


> You don't have to avoid meat.That is a myth.The fact is if you go low carb i.e. follow atkins or it's many derivatives you will lose weight fast. Of course good luck whatever you do
> 
> https://www.drfranklipman.com/big-fat-surprise-a-conversation-with-nina-teicholz/


Your link is mostly about how the low-fat craze is incorrect, like many other 'scientific facts' from the last few decades of food studies. In the mid-90's companies like Kraft, through their Snackwells line, made a lot of money selling 'no-fat' cookies and cakes by convincing the public that they could eat all the sweets they wanted without gaining a pound. As it turns out, eating a variety of food in moderation is the best way to maintain health and a stable weight. America has gone from 'fat makes you fat' to 'carbs make you fat' but the reality is simply that overeating makes you gain weight.

I've seen the focus shifting away from the all you can eat model toward quality food at slightly inflated prices but I think we have a long way to go. The American diet is still rooted in farming culture where people needed to take in 1500 calories per meal so they could fuel their outdoor work. Working in an office doesn't expend nearly as much energy and unless you're a crab fisherman a 750 calorie meal will usually suffice.

Like Godan said, choose your goal weight and add a 0 and that's you're daily calorie goal; it's just a matter of getting to within 10-20 pounds of that goal first.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

red_shift said:


> Your link is mostly about how the low-fat craze is incorrect, like many other 'scientific facts' from the last few decades of food studies. In the mid-90's companies like Kraft, through their Snackwells line, made a lot of money selling 'no-fat' cookies and cakes by convincing the public that they could eat all the sweets they wanted without gaining a pound. As it turns out, eating a variety of food in moderation is the best way to maintain health and a stable weight. America has gone from 'fat makes you fat' to 'carbs make you fat' but the reality is simply that overeating makes you gain weight.
> 
> I've seen the focus shifting away from the all you can eat model toward quality food at slightly inflated prices but I think we have a long way to go. The American diet is still rooted in farming culture where people needed to take in 1500 calories per meal so they could fuel their outdoor work. Working in an office doesn't expend nearly as much energy and unless you're a crab fisherman a 750 calorie meal will usually suffice.
> 
> Like Godan said, choose your goal weight and add a 0 and that's you're daily calorie goal; it's just a matter of getting to within 10-20 pounds of that goal first.


Absolutely.

A lot of nonsense is often promulgated about diets simply because weight loss is such a massively profitable (and barely regulated) industry. For the best part of a decade I worked with some of the most highly respected Dieticians in the UK and despite much opinion to the contrary from individuals outside of a professional context it really is a simple formula - fewer calories consumed plus increased exercise equals less weight.

Although they are a dangerous and contra-indicated solution, still, no-one has ever gained weight whilst wearing a gastric band. The conclusion from this fact is inescapable, albeit harsh, failed diets are resultant of insufficient willpower.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Shaver said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> A lot of nonsense is often promulgated about diets simply because weight loss is such a massively profitable (and barely regulated) industry. For the best part of a decade I worked with some of the most highly respected Dieticians in the UK and despite much opinion to the contrary from individuals outside of a professional context it really is a simple formula - fewer calories consumed plus increased exercise equals less weight.
> 
> Although they are a dangerous and contra-indicated solution, still, no-one has ever gained weight whilst wearing a gastric band. The conclusion from this fact is inescapable, albeit harsh, failed diets are resultant of insufficient willpower.


True, though genetics can play into it. In my case, the fact of the matter is, the years I was overweight I would say that I wanted to lose weight badly, but I just didn't want to put forth the effort necessary. I think the other thing is that people will go on unsustainable diets with a set timeframe: they'll do whatever the newest fad is (say, low carb), get to their goal weight, then drop the diet completely and revert right back to their old eating habits. I had a friend in college that would lose ~15lbs on a diet, then as soon as she got off it she would shoot up 20lbs. The key is actually making the change of lifestyle.

as an aside, in light of this thread and to cross something off our bucket list/prove to ourselves that we can do it, my wife and I signed up for our first half marathon last night, which we'll be running in January :biggrin:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

orange fury said:


> *True, though genetics can play into it. *In my case, the fact of the matter is, the years I was overweight I would say that I wanted to lose weight badly, but I just didn't want to put forth the effort necessary. I think the other thing is that people will go on unsustainable diets with a set timeframe: they'll do whatever the newest fad is (say, low carb), get to their goal weight, then drop the diet completely and revert right back to their old eating habits. I had a friend in college that would lose ~15lbs on a diet, then as soon as she got off it she would shoot up 20lbs. The key is actually making the change of lifestyle.
> 
> as an aside, in light of this thread and to cross something off our bucket list/prove to ourselves that we can do it, my wife and I signed up for our first half marathon last night, which we'll be running in January :biggrin:


Don't mention Infectobesity cf Adv36.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Shaver said:


> Don't mention Infectobesity cf Adv36.


I had to look that up, I learned something new today. Something new that now has me terrified and cowering under my desk lol.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

red_shift said:


> Your link is mostly about how the low-fat craze is incorrect, like many other 'scientific facts' from the last few decades of food studies. In the mid-90's companies like Kraft, through their Snackwells line, made a lot of money selling 'no-fat' cookies and cakes by convincing the public that they could eat all the sweets they wanted without gaining a pound. As it turns out, eating a variety of food in moderation is the best way to maintain health and a stable weight. America has gone from 'fat makes you fat' to 'carbs make you fat' but the reality is simply that overeating makes you gain weight.
> 
> I've seen the focus shifting away from the all you can eat model toward quality food at slightly inflated prices but I think we have a long way to go. The American diet is still rooted in farming culture where people needed to take in 1500 calories per meal so they could fuel their outdoor work. Working in an office doesn't expend nearly as much energy and unless you're a crab fisherman a 750 calorie meal will usually suffice.
> 
> Like Godan said, choose your goal weight and add a 0 and that's you're daily calorie goal; it's just a matter of getting to within 10-20 pounds of that goal first.


It is comforting that someone else understands the "add a zero" technique. I have seen it work from the beginning of a committed weight loss program through forty or fifty pounds, but it is not easy or fun. Your mention of the 1500 calorie meal is pertinent. If the OP is aiming towards a reasonable weight of 150 pounds, the "add a zero" method would allow only 1500 calories for the entire day - every day of a great many days. The volume of food intake is noticeably diminished. Fresh vegetables and some fruits can provide bulk and the necessary roughage without too many calories. I recommend avoiding all manner of fad diets and instead eating what will seem to be miniscule amounts of basic, wholesome food.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

godan said:


> It is comforting that someone else understands the "add a zero" technique. I have seen it work from the beginning of a committed weight loss program through forty or fifty pounds, but it is not easy or fun. Your mention of the 1500 calorie meal is pertinent. If the OP is aiming towards a reasonable weight of 150 pounds, the "add a zero" method would allow only 1500 calories for the entire day - every day of a great many days. The volume of food intake is noticeably diminished. Fresh vegetables and some fruits can provide bulk and the necessary roughage without too many calories. I recommend avoiding all manner of fad diets and instead eating what will seem to be miniscule amounts of basic, wholesome food.


+1

Eating the right amount of calories only seems difficult if you keep eating the same, calorie-dense, nutrient-poor foods that made you overweight in the first place. Replacing these with nutrient-dense foods that rank high on the satiety index (fullness factor) means you can eat way more than you think and still stay below your calorie requirement for the day. I eat several pounds of food a day and find it difficult to hit my calorie minimum to sustain my workouts.

Regarding the method for calculating your daily calorie requirement, I had never heard of the "adding a zero" rule until now, but it's pretty much dead on in my experience, give or take a few hundred for activity level. When I started losing weight, I was 170 lbs and started limiting myself to 1,250 calories a day just eating a purely raw, plant-based diet until I felt full. About 8 months later, I finally settled at my high school weight of around 125 (I'm only 5'-3"). I eat slightly more now that I'm trying to build muscle, but I've expanded my diet to include grains, lean meat and the occasional splurge meal which makes it easier to get my calories without stuffing myself silly.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Today's one of my two days off from running, so I'm eating a little lighter, 1670 calories for the day. This is my lunch, 544 calories of mixed greens, venison sausage, Vidalia onions, lusty monk mustard and fresh french bread:










Not half bad for a diet meal, no?


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

Shaver said:


> it really is a simple formula - fewer calories consumed plus increased exercise equals less weight.
> 
> Although they are a dangerous and contra-indicated solution, still, no-one has ever gained weight whilst wearing a gastric band. The conclusion from this fact is inescapable, albeit harsh, failed diets are resultant of insufficient willpower.


It is not this simple. Weight loss from gastric bypass is mediated by gut bacteria. Fecal transplants tell the same story: for similar diet and exercise, obesity strongly depends on the bugs.


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## red_shift (Aug 8, 2013)

I once read that the body is basically a black box where we can only input calories and exercise then monitor the results. 

This showed up in my RSS reader today - . We have a long way to go before we understand how the relationship between gut flora, macro/micronutrients and genetics influences health.


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## DLW (Jun 4, 2013)

Just an update:

I will be taking a "Nutrition For Life Course" with phase one beginning Sept. 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] and running 10 weeks. I have an appointment next Wednesday for registration, where pictures and measurements are recorded, and class starting the following week. I'm looking forward to participating in the class. I have heard only great reviews about the course. https://www.kgwellness.com/

Ruben, your diet sandwich looks like it's from Bon Appétit. I'm sure it was delicious.


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

Great. Keep us posted.I am in Ann Arbor where are you in Mich......the Van Boven label clued me(on another thread) me that you might be in Mich. The Detroit store closed years ago but the Ann Arbor store is still going.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

colorvision said:


> It is not this simple. Weight loss from gastric bypass is mediated by gut bacteria. Fecal transplants tell the same story: for similar diet and exercise, obesity strongly depends on the bugs.


This type of research has yet to effectively demonstrate which is cause and which is effect.

However, you go ahead and take a faecal transplant if you like. I trust that you will not object if I choose to abstain?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

On a different tack.....

Hunger makes you happy, healthier _and_ smarter - release of the hormone Ghrelin is stimulated, the immune system is accelerated and production of the protien Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor is boosted.

I very much enjoy the sharpening effect of hunger on both physical and cerebral processes, and disdain the malaise of sluggishness imparted by satiety.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Reuben said:


> Today's one of my two days off from running, so I'm eating a little lighter, 1670 calories for the day. This is my lunch, 544 calories of mixed greens, venison sausage, Vidalia onions, lusty monk mustard and fresh french bread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now that is my kind of diet! :thumbs-up:


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Vidalia.... there is no substitute.


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

red_shift said:


> Your link is mostly about how the low-fat craze is incorrect, like many other 'scientific facts' from the last few decades of food studies. In the mid-90's companies like Kraft, through their Snackwells line, made a lot of money selling 'no-fat' cookies and cakes by convincing the public that they could eat all the sweets they wanted without gaining a pound. As it turns out, eating a variety of food in moderation is the best way to maintain health and a stable weight. America has gone from 'fat makes you fat' to 'carbs make you fat' but the reality is simply that overeating makes you gain weight.
> 
> I've seen the focus shifting away from the all you can eat model toward quality food at slightly inflated prices but I think we have a long way to go. The American diet is still rooted in farming culture where people needed to take in 1500 calories per meal so they could fuel their outdoor work. Working in an office doesn't expend nearly as much energy and unless you're a crab fisherman a 750 calorie meal will usually suffice.
> 
> Like Godan said, choose your goal weight and add a 0 and that's you're daily calorie goal; it's just a matter of getting to within 10-20 pounds of that goal first.


I have not read the book;although a friend has.And the low fat anti meat butter, eggs, etc etc sentiment began in the 1950's. 
I am glad the op has decided upon a course of action. I support that completely.There is no doubt emphasis on no doubt that low carb is sure way to lose weight.The results speak for themselves.Often so called experts are so entrenched in their beliefs they either deny or make great efforts to discredit the evidence.There are many myths that despite evidence to the contrary continue to endure.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Walk everywhere... and I mean EVERYWHERE possible along with the 5 miles. As others have said, walk faster and eat healthier. I'd also recommend not eating out, not eating junk food, and cooking your own meals if you don't already. But most importantly, you must, as the oldest living American man said, keep moving.

-Quetzal


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

shadow wilson said:


> There is no doubt emphasis on no doubt that low carb is sure way to lose weight.The results speak for themselves.Often so called experts are so entrenched in their beliefs they either deny or make great efforts to discredit the evidence.There are many myths that despite evidence to the contrary continue to endure.


Yup, there's no doubt it *can* work, just like many other diets *can* work. The clearest consensus on *how* low carb/paleo/keto/low fat diets/ect work, though, is that they work the same as any other diet, by lowering your daily caloric intake below your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure). The "magic" in many of these diets is that they just so happen to cut out a chunk of calorie-dense foods (sugars, oils, fast foods, starches, whatever floats your boat) and force the dieter to fill up on less calorie dense foods, like lean proteins and veggies.


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

Shaver said:


> This type of research has yet to effectively demonstrate which is cause and which is effect.
> 
> However, you go ahead and take a faecal transplant if you like. I trust that you will not object if I choose to abstain?


I suppose it depends on your requirements for an effective demonstration of causality, i.e., whether demonstrating causality in mice is sufficient for extrapolation to humans. But mice that receive gastric bypass exhibit significant changes in gut bacteria, and fecal transplants from mice that receive surgery (but not sham surgery) prevent obesity.

I would also suggest that hunger affects people very differently. When I was obese, several times I tried very hard to follow a strict diet as recommended by nutritionists. Each time I blamed myself for failure because I could not control my hunger. Since I have eliminated a few disagreeable foods, the experience has been very different. I recently zero-calorie fasted for four days in the hopes of rebooting my immune system, and at no point was the hunger even remotely comparable to my previous experience. I think I would need to starve for at least one more week to approach that sort of misery.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

colorvision said:


> I suppose it depends on your requirements for an effective demonstration of causality, i.e., whether demonstrating causality in mice is sufficient for extrapolation to humans. But mice that receive gastric bypass exhibit significant changes in gut bacteria, and fecal transplants from mice that receive surgery (but not sham surgery) prevent obesity.
> 
> *I would also suggest that hunger affects people very differently*. When I was obese, several times I tried very hard to follow a strict diet as recommended by nutritionists. Each time I blamed myself for failure because I could not control my hunger. Since I have eliminated a few disagreeable foods, the experience has been very different. I recently zero-calorie fasted for four days in the hopes of rebooting my immune system, and at no point was the hunger even remotely comparable to my previous experience. I think I would need to starve for at least one more week to approach that sort of misery.


Indubitably.

Obese people tend to hunger for processed foods, food made in a plant as opposed to grown on a plant, the very foods that will have generated their obesity. These processed foods are rich in a fats, sugars and salt which are (at the very least psychologically) addictive. The hunger of withdrawal is a qualitatively different hunger to normal metabolic hunger.

BTW: my requirements for an effective demonstration of causality are simply that it should be demonstrated effectively, not too much to ask I trust?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

colorvision said:


> I recently zero-calorie fasted for four days in the hopes of rebooting my immune system, and at no point was the hunger even remotely comparable to my previous experience. I think I would need to starve for at least one more week to approach that sort of misery.


I'm intrigued by this, I assume you had only water for the four days? What is the theory behind the reboot of the immune system?


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

orange fury said:


> I'm intrigued by this, I assume you had only water for the four days? What is the theory behind the reboot of the immune system?


Yes, indeed. Any details of the fast, including your activity levels, would be appreciated.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Indeed, multi-day fasting can be a very debilitating process. On the few occasions I have tried it, my activity levels have plummeted in concert with my continued abstinence from food! Presently I do regularly fast to keep my weight and waistline under control. Generally I fast each Friday, but occasionally, when the weight has crept up due to my weekend's "gastronomical excesses," I will fast on Monday, as well as on Friday of the week that follows. To be fully candid, it still sucks, but it is manageable and, in reality, we can put up with almost anything for 24 hours or less!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

I'll second (or third) the fact that hunger feels different when you eat cleanly. I always wondered why not eating for a few hours made me feel the same way that not having coffee made me feel - dizzy, irritable, nauseous and with a pounding headache. I imagine those recovering from substance abuse issues probably feel the same symptoms due to drug detox and withdrawal. When your body is no longer bogged down by trying to digest the processed goop you feed it, it takes the opportunity to cleanse itself, releasing all those awesome toxins it's accumulated into your blood to be filtered through your liver and kidneys, which makes you feel awful until it either detoxifies itself or you interrupt the process by feeding it more goop.

This is the concept behind fasting. The body expends a huge amount of energy in the digestion process. Once the process shuts down through fasting, the body is free to use that energy to attend to other matters that had been put on the back burner, like healing, building up immunities, etc. It's basically what happens when you sleep. For a lot of people, water fasting is a bit too much to take on, so juice fasting has become pretty popular. If you juice fruits and vegetables and remove all the fiber, the nutrition goes directly to your blood stream and bypasses the lengthy digestive process, so you essentially get the benefits of the fast without the weakness.


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

orange fury said:


> I'm intrigued by this, I assume you had only water for the four days? What is the theory behind the reboot of the immune system?


I drank a lot of mineral water, and some coffee each day. Technically coffee has a few calories, but I ignored these. The theory is that to save energy during starvation, the body recycles unnecessary immune cells and white blood cell count goes down. When a threshold is crossed after 3 days or so, stem cells activate to produce new white blood cells, and probably other components of the immune system. A reasonable explanation can be found here:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...enerate-entire-immune-system-study-finds.html

When this story came out, I immediately wanted to try it out for my autoimmune disease. I increased lower-energy physical activity (mainly walking), and avoided anything strenuous. My doctor would not have recommended a fast of this duration, and I've recommended it to no one else, but it worked like a top for me. I've occasionally done intermittent (18-24 hour) fasts for quite some time now, but this was very different.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

hardline_42 said:


> I'll second (or third) the fact that hunger feels different when you eat cleanly. I always wondered why not eating for a few hours made me feel the same way that not having coffee made me feel - dizzy, irritable, nauseous and with a pounding headache. I imagine those recovering from substance abuse issues probably feel the same symptoms due to drug detox and withdrawal. When your body is no longer bogged down by trying to digest the processed goop you feed it, it takes the opportunity to cleanse itself, releasing all those awesome toxins it's accumulated into your blood to be filtered through your liver and kidneys, which makes you feel awful until it either detoxifies itself or you interrupt the process by feeding it more goop.This is the concept behind fasting. The body expends a huge amount of energy in the digestion process. Once the process shuts down through fasting, the body is free to use that energy to attend to other matters that had been put on the back burner, like healing, building up immunities, etc. It's basically what happens when you sleep. For a lot of people, water fasting is a bit too much to take on, so juice fasting has become pretty popular. If you juice fruits and vegetables and remove all the fiber, the nutrition goes directly to your blood stream and bypasses the lengthy digestive process, so you essentially get the benefits of the fast without the weakness.





colorvision said:


> I drank a lot of mineral water, and some coffee each day. Technically coffee has a few calories, but I ignored these. The theory is that to save energy during starvation, the body recycles unnecessary immune cells and white blood cell count goes down. When a threshold is crossed after 3 days or so, stem cells activate to produce new white blood cells, and probably other components of the immune system. A reasonable explanation can be found here:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...enerate-entire-immune-system-study-finds.htmlWhen this story came out, I immediately wanted to try it out for my autoimmune disease. I increased lower-energy physical activity (mainly walking), and avoided anything strenuous. My doctor would not have recommended a fast of this duration, and I've recommended it to no one else, but it worked like a top for me. I've occasionally done intermittent (18-24 hour) fasts for quite some time now, but this was very different.


This is fascinating stuff, thank you for sharing. I'm definitely looking into trying this now (24-48 hrs at first, I dont want to start off by trying 4 days)


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

Shaver said:


> Indubitably.
> 
> Obese people tend to hunger for processed foods, food made in a plant as opposed to grown on a plant, the very foods that will have generated their obesity. These processed foods are rich in a fats, sugars and salt which are (at the very least psychologically) addictive. The hunger of withdrawal is a qualitatively different hunger to normal metabolic hunger.
> 
> BTW: my requirements for an effective demonstration of causality are simply that it should be demonstrated effectively, not too much to ask I trust?


Do you not interpret the study of Liou et al (https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/5/178/178ra41) as suggestive of causality? Surely not a conclusive demonstration, but as the most likely explanation? There is good reason to be skeptical of applying the results of mouse dietary studies to humans (dietary fat is a good example), but in this case, the shifts in bacterial populations they've identified have been similar in mouse and man, and I see it as a pretty clean demonstration of causality.

To your list I would add 'nutritive hunger', namely the hunger that results when disagreeable foods damage epithelial cells in the stomach, reducing the efficiency of absorbing vitamins and minerals. This may contribute to the hunger that results from withdrawal of processed foods, which contain little nutrition themselves. Much diversity exists in the lore of dietary recommendations, but all good diets share one common feature that you rightly emphasize above all else: whole, unprocessed foods. The trad diet.


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

orange fury said:


> This is fascinating stuff, thank you for sharing. I'm definitely looking into trying this now (24-48 hrs at first, I dont want to start off by trying 4 days)


24 is pretty reasonable, and won't have many lasting effects, but I think there are diminishing returns between 24 and 72. I'm still trying to gain back the 8 lbs I lost over a month ago.


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## Elmer Zilch (Dec 13, 2008)

colorvision said:


> 24 is pretty reasonable, and won't have many lasting effects, but I think there are diminishing returns between 24 and 72. I'm still trying to gain back the 8 lbs I lost over a month ago.


Intermittent fasting has been very modish over the past few years, both as standalone program and as an aspect of the "paleo" lifestyle. The two major versions of IF are a 16/8 protocol, where you fast for 16 hours between 8 hour feeding windows, and a 24-hour protocol, one or at most two 24-hour fasts a week. I do a 24-hour fast every so often if I'm expecting a big weekend of eating and...it's fine. But any more than 24 hours and you lose focus as your glycogen stores get depleted and your body starts to nibble at your muscles.

In fact, I'm surprised that more emphasis in this thread hasn't been placed on building and maintaining lean body mass. Lifting weights, fellas...it's the closest thing we have to a fountain of youth.


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

Shaver said:


> Indubitably.
> 
> Obese people tend to hunger for processed foods, food made in a plant as opposed to grown on a plant, the very foods that will have generated their obesity. These processed foods are rich in a fats, sugars and salt which are (at the very least psychologically) addictive. The hunger of withdrawal is a qualitatively different hunger to normal metabolic hunger.
> 
> BTW: my requirements for an effective demonstration of causality are simply that it should be demonstrated effectively, not too much to ask I trust?


Great.Then you it seems would endorse Atkin/low carb as it most assuredly is proven to work.


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

Elmer Zilch said:


> Intermittent fasting has been very modish over the past few years, both as standalone program and as an aspect of the "paleo" lifestyle. The two major versions of IF are a 16/8 protocol, where you fast for 16 hours between 8 hour feeding windows, and a 24-hour protocol, one or at most two 24-hour fasts a week. I do a 24-hour fast every so often if I'm expecting a big weekend of eating and...it's fine. But any more than 24 hours and you lose focus as your glycogen stores get depleted and your body starts to nibble at your muscles.
> 
> In fact, I'm surprised that more emphasis in this thread hasn't been placed on building and maintaining lean body mass. Lifting weights, fellas...it's the closest thing we have to a fountain of youth.


I was waiting(no pun intended) for someone to bring up weightlifting. Body weight exercises are excellent too for weight loss or in tandem with dietary changes.Squats work well as they utilize the largest muscle groups and of course push ups are effective as well.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

shadow wilson said:


> I was waiting(no pun intended) for someone to bring up weightlifting. Body weight exercises are excellent too for weight loss or in tandem with dietary changes.Squats work well as they utilize the largest muscle groups and of course push ups are effective as well.


I found 3 miles of running followed by an emphasis on core to help significantly with my weight loss.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

orange fury said:


> I found 3 miles of running followed by an emphasis on core to help significantly with my weight loss.


Three at 6:00 (four if I'm feeling particularly froggy), four at 8:30-ish or whenever the neighbor's music gets particularly annoying.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AscotWithShortSleeves (Apr 12, 2009)

Just wanted to congratulate the OP on quitting smoking and wish him well in his weight loss. Losing weight is tough! At 5'8" and 180, I need to drop about 15-20 lbs. myself. In the past, I've gone from very fit to chunky and everything in between. What for me made the most difference was walking uphill on a treadmill. Do a mile a day but on enough incline that you're sweating and your heart rate is increased. (Check with your doctor first, though.) That will boost your metabolism more than 5 miles of easy strolling. At the same time, swear off sodas, cheese, alcohol, and fried foods till you're at your target weight. Black coffee (or tea) helps keep the appetite in check with no calories. Good luck!


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

I do exercise exclusively body weight and walking the dog but..............

https://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/index1.html


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

AscotWithShortSleeves said:


> At the same time, swear off sodas, cheese, alcohol, and fried foods till you're at your target weight. Black coffee (or tea) helps keep the appetite in check with no calories. Good luck!


And processed foods or anything that contains excessive amounts of sodium.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

colorvision said:


> Do you not interpret the study of Liou et al (https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/5/178/178ra41) as suggestive of causality? Surely not a conclusive demonstration, but as the most likely explanation? There is good reason to be skeptical of applying the results of mouse dietary studies to humans (dietary fat is a good example), but in this case, the shifts in bacterial populations they've identified have been similar in mouse and man, and I see it as a pretty clean demonstration of causality.
> 
> To your list I would add 'nutritive hunger', namely the hunger that results when disagreeable foods damage epithelial cells in the stomach, reducing the efficiency of absorbing vitamins and minerals. This may contribute to the hunger that results from withdrawal of processed foods, which contain little nutrition themselves. Much diversity exists in the lore of dietary recommendations, but all good diets share one common feature that you rightly emphasize above all else: whole, unprocessed foods. The trad diet.


I was twisting your tail somewhat re faecal transplants - puerile chappie that I am.

These microbiotia are indeed interesting strands of auxiliary research but the notion of FMT repels me just as much now as when I first read about it, way back when.

Still we are in absolute agreement - the Trad Diet. We should consider co-authoring, the only diet handbook in a TNSIL 3/2 roll binding........?

.
.
.
.

.


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

Shaver said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> A lot of nonsense is often promulgated about diets simply because weight loss is such a massively profitable (and barely regulated) industry. For the best part of a decade I worked with some of the most highly respected Dieticians in the UK and despite much opinion to the contrary from individuals outside of a professional context it really is a simple formula - fewer calories consumed plus increased exercise equals less weight.
> 
> Although they are a dangerous and contra-indicated solution, still, no-one has ever gained weight whilst wearing a gastric band. The conclusion from this fact is inescapable, albeit harsh, failed diets are resultant of insufficient willpower.


All of the above is completely sensible, except for the very last clause. The failure of willpower can be combated by considering satiety. Why do people eat more? Much of the time it's because they are hungry. Foods vary enormously in their caloric density and satiety.

Being hungry can very easily lead to poor choices about what to eat. Foods high in fiber (which ought to be classed the fourth nutrient) provide few calories and a feeling of being full.

I could happily go on about this topic, but here are the highlights:

Humans are not designed to eat meat. We are not built as carnivores or omnivores. The facts are irrefutable.

Cow's milk is very unhealthy and carcinogenic.

No oil is healthy, including everybody's favorite olive oil. All destroy the endothelium, which is the gateway to heart disease.

References available on request to those interested.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Edwin Ek said:


> All of the above is completely sensible, except for the very last clause. The failure of willpower can be combated by considering satiety. Why do people eat more? Much of the time it's because they are hungry. Foods vary enormously in their caloric density and satiety.
> 
> Being hungry can very easily lead to poor choices about what to eat. Foods high in fiber (which ought to be classed the fourth nutrient) provide few calories and a feeling of being full.
> 
> ...


I have found, having long ago mimimised any ingestion of processed foods, that hunger can be a magnificent indicator of targeted metabolic requirements, to wit cravings.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Mark Lauren's cheap book changed my life. Lauren was a Special Forces trainer, w/ no macho bluster at all. No HIIT, which is nearly impossible if you're out of shape. The advantage of body-weight exercises is that all of them work your core. Oh, and they're cheap. And can be done in one's living room. I find treadmill workouts so boring I want to cry, but I have a cycling trainer (not cheap, but cheaper than a treadmill). Still, cycling is v_ery _repetitive; it's not the best choice if one has knee problems.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Edwin Ek said:


> All of the above is completely sensible, except for the very last clause. The failure of willpower can be combated by considering satiety. Why do people eat more? Much of the time it's because they are hungry. Foods vary enormously in their caloric density and satiety.
> 
> Being hungry can very easily lead to poor choices about what to eat. Foods high in fiber (which ought to be classed the fourth nutrient) provide few calories and a feeling of being full.
> 
> ...


Do you have proof? I've read quite a bit that points to humans being some of the very finest endurance/pursuit predators in the animal kingdom and there is quite a bit of evidence in the archeological record for heavy hunting activity even early on. Look at the extinction of America's megafauna, for example.


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## dkoernert (May 31, 2011)

SlideGuitarist said:


> Mark Lauren's cheap book changed my life. Lauren was a Special Forces trainer, w/ no macho bluster at all. No HIIT, which is nearly impossible if you're out of shape. The advantage of body-weight exercises is that all of them work your core. Oh, and they're cheap. And can be done in one's living room. I find treadmill workouts so boring I want to cry, but I have a cycling trainer (not cheap, but cheaper than a treadmill). Still, cycling is v_ery _repetitive; it's not the best choice if one has knee problems.


Thanks for this. I really enjoy lifting, but the free gym we have at work (college campus) has gotten to be VERY crowded. I have been looking for some bodyweight stuff to do at home instead. I'll check out the book as well. Have you run a bodyweight program on a caloric deficit? If so, how is the recovery time? Slow recovery is another reason I am looking to switch it up. I bulked for a while earlier this year and got my squat up to 370, bench to 225, and deadlift to 405, but realized REAL quick that it is simply too difficult to maintain/grow those numbers in a deficit.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Edwin Ek said:


> All of the above is completely sensible, except for the very last clause. The failure of willpower can be combated by considering satiety. Why do people eat more? Much of the time it's because they are hungry. Foods vary enormously in their caloric density and satiety.
> 
> Being hungry can very easily lead to poor choices about what to eat. Foods high in fiber (which ought to be classed the fourth nutrient) provide few calories and a feeling of being full.
> 
> ...


I'd like to see your sources concerning both meat consumption and milk being carcinogenic. Nothing personal, I'm just curious as to where the data is being sourced (especially with the milk thing- I've never liked milk so I avoid it, but I've never heard this statement before)



Reuben said:


> Do you have proof? I've read quite a bit that points to humans being some of the very finest endurance/pursuit predators in the animal kingdom and there is quite a bit of evidence in the archeological record for heavy hunting activity even early on. Look at the extinction of America's megafauna, for example.


It's funny you mention this, because I was reading an academic journal concerning pursuit predators a couple weeks ago actually. That stuff is creepy if you think about it- you're running away from someone as fast as you can, and they're just walking behind you. You think you've gotten away from them, you set up camp, and they eventually just show up in your campsite. You keep repeating the process until you eventually drop dead from exhaustion, and they show up without any effort because nature has already taken care of you for them.

Fascinating stuff, but not a topic to read up on before bedtime lol


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

orange fury said:


> I'd like to see your sources concerning both meat consumption and milk being carcinogenic. Nothing personal, I'm just curious as to where the data is being sourced (especially with the milk thing- I've never liked milk so I avoid it, but I've never heard this statement before)


A lot of people will cite the China Study, which basically studied degenerative disease in populations in China and how it related to diet. Those who ate plant-based diets got less cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. than those who ate animal-product-heavy diets. At least that's the conclusion that the average person who watched _Forks Over Knives_ on Netflix will be led to.

Personally, I think there's a huge benefit to drastically increasing the amount of plant-based foods in the Western diet but I don't see any issues with supplementing this with some meat and dairy products. As with most things diet-related, the processing of the food has a lot to do with its ultimate effect on your body. Factory farmed animals, pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones, and fed unnatural corn diets, will probably give you cancer when eaten for decades.

There is no evidence that I have come across that proves eating animal products (from healthy sources and as a part of an otherwise balanced diet) leads to degenerative disease. In fact, Inuit populations remained quite healthy for generations eating primarily meat and fat.


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

hardline_42 said:


> A lot of people will cite the China Study, which basically studied degenerative disease in populations in China and how it related to diet. Those who ate plant-based diets got less cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. than those who ate animal-product-heavy diets. At least that's the conclusion that the average person who watched _Forks Over Knives_ on Netflix will be led to.
> 
> Personally, I think there's a huge benefit to drastically increasing the amount of plant-based foods in the Western diet but I don't see any issues with supplementing this with some meat and dairy products. As with most things diet-related, the processing of the food has a lot to do with its ultimate effect on your body. Factory farmed animals, pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormones, and fed unnatural corn diets, will probably give you cancer when eaten for decades.
> 
> ...


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

dkoernert said:


> Thanks for this. I really enjoy lifting, but the free gym we have at work (college campus) has gotten to be VERY crowded. I have been looking for some bodyweight stuff to do at home instead. I'll check out the book as well. Have you run a bodyweight program on a caloric deficit? If so, how is the recovery time? Slow recovery is another reason I am looking to switch it up. I bulked for a while earlier this year and got my squat up to 370, bench to 225, and deadlift to 405, but realized REAL quick that it is simply too difficult to maintain/grow those numbers in a deficit.


I'll stick to the question: I think you could do these exercises at a deficit. I do them when I'm under the weather, simply by slowing them down. I can't do "burpies" or "mountain climbers" at a caloric deficit, though, let alone with, say, a sinus infection; I don't have the energy. The exercises in Mr. Lauren's books are slower than those in the video, for what it's worth.

The variety of abdominal exercises in this book probably only scratches the surface, and I've seen some new one in jiu jitsu (e.g. take a medicine ball, sit on your behind, raise your feet off the ground, and pass the ball over and under your knees in a figure-8). That's just a different emphasis than bench press. If you don't have the energy to do sit-ups, I'll bet you could do static leg-raises, or even the plank, on a deficit. But I'm guessing.

To keep this somewhat in line with OP's original question: I'm 52. Every workout gives me some pain. As long as it's not indicative of injury, I live with it. I don't take Advil because inflammation has a purpose. Also: the first exercise Mr. Lauren demonstrates above is "dynamic squats." These cost nothing; you can do them in front of the TV. Heart pounding? Slow them down. Mountain climbers too hard? Hold the "plank" position instead.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

I mean, I'm 24 but I've got some rough wear and tear plus a couple surgeries, a major shoulder reconstruction and some meniscus excession and I've found recovery time isn't too bad at a calorie deficit for running. The first week and half of my C25K program I had some significant DOM but that went away quickly. Now the only think I do is occasionally slip a sleeve on my knee if it's particularly stiff during the day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

Tweed, how about an update? Have you begun your nutritional consultations?


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## NoahNY (Sep 2, 2014)

Atkins. Eat as much or as little as you like while losing all the weight you want. I am also a former smoker and carbs are simply another form of an addictive craving like nicotine. Worse, read "Wheat Belly," to learn why nobody should be eating wheat (or simple sugar).

As another poster stated, it's not a race.


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

NoahNY said:


> Atkins. Eat as much or as little as you like while losing all the weight you want. I am also a former smoker and carbs are simply another form of an addictive craving like nicotine. Worse, read "Wheat Belly," to learn why nobody should be eating wheat (or simple sugar).
> 
> As another poster stated, it's not a race.


I have an ally.....atkins works!


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Big landmark hit today, had my weight start with a one for the first time since middle school.


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## TheoProf (Dec 17, 2012)

I hit a major one too. I'm now 6'1 167 for an OrangeFury-like 22.0 BMI! I started at 245 in January. I see that many of us have taken a similar method to our weight loss. It really is about knowing what you take into your body and then making sure you're burning it over the course of the day. Self-discipline rarely leads to negative results in my experience.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

williamsonb2 said:


> Self-discipline rarely leads to negative results in my experience.


Ancient karate saying: _ The purpose of discipline is to live life more fully, not less_. Easy to say and to hear, but it means more when you know it empirically. Congratulations on the weight loss.


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

Shaver said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> A lot of nonsense is often promulgated about diets simply because weight loss is such a massively profitable (and barely regulated) industry. For the best part of a decade I worked with some of the most highly respected Dieticians in the UK and despite much opinion to the contrary from individuals outside of a professional context it really is a simple formula - fewer calories consumed plus increased exercise equals less weight.
> 
> Although they are a dangerous and contra-indicated solution, still, no-one has ever gained weight whilst wearing a gastric band. The conclusion from this fact is inescapable, albeit harsh, failed diets are resultant of insufficient willpower.


This is all solid advice. One additional point that often gets overlooked is the notion of caloric density and satiety. Foods vary widely on these two dimensions, and an effective diet recommends foods high in satiety and low in caloric density. The goal is a calorie deficit and not going hungry. When you are hungry, the part of the brain which controls executive decision making doesn't function as well-- you make poor choices and have reduced will power.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

As regards substance addictions, refined food addiction is No. 1 on the planet i.e. sugar, salt, caffeine, fat - Not tobacco and not alcohol.

Overeating in industrial societies is a significant problem, linked to an increasing incidence of overweightand obesity, and the resultant adverse health consequences. We advance the hypothesis that a possible

explanation for overeating is that processed foods with high concentrations of sugar and other refined

sweeteners, refined carbohydrates, fat, salt, and caffeine are addictive substances. Therefore, many people

lose control over their ability to regulate their consumption of such foods. The loss of control over these

foods could account for the global epidemic of obesity and other metabolic disorders. We assert that

overeating can be described as an addiction to refined foods that conforms to the DSM-IV criteria for substance

use disorders. To examine the hypothesis, we relied on experience with self-identified refined

foods addicts, as well as critical reading of the literature on obesity, eating behavior, and drug addiction.

Reports by self-identified food addicts illustrate behaviors that conform to the 7 DSM-IV criteria for substance

use disorders. The literature also supports use of the DSM-IV criteria to describe overeating as a

substance use disorder. The observational and empirical data strengthen the hypothesis that certain

refined food consumption behaviors meet the criteria for substance use disorders, not unlike tobacco

and alcohol. This hypothesis could lead to a new diagnostic category, as well as therapeutic approaches

to changing overeating behaviors.


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> There is no evidence that I have come across that proves eating animal products (from healthy sources and as a part of an otherwise balanced diet) leads to degenerative disease. In fact, Inuit populations remained quite healthy for generations eating primarily meat and fat.


Here is a link to a table showing characteristics of carnivores, omnivores, herbivores, and humans.

https://www.vegsource.com/articles2/anatomy_mills.htm

What is cancer? The rapid unchecked proliferation of cells. A calf at birth weighs about 70 pounds on average. 2 years later it weighs 2,000 pounds. Milk is one of the most powerful carcinogens ever tested.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Edwin Ek said:


> Here is a link to a table showing characteristics of carnivores, omnivores, herbivores, and humans.
> 
> https://www.vegsource.com/articles2/anatomy_mills.htm
> 
> What is cancer? The rapid unchecked proliferation of cells. A calf at birth weighs about 70 pounds on average. 2 years later it weighs 2,000 pounds. Milk is one of the most powerful carcinogens ever tested.


How about an unbiased source with citations to back up it's claims? That's no better than a site claiming crystals are the keys to healing. Furthermore, cancer is the uncontrollable proliferation of cells in the wrong location. Calling normal animal maturation cancer is just rediculous. How do you explain infants who continue to grow and mature on powdered formula?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Edwin Ek said:


> What is cancer? The rapid unchecked proliferation of cells. A calf at birth weighs about 70 pounds on average. 2 years later it weighs 2,000 pounds. Milk is one of the most powerful carcinogens ever tested.


The cow growth rate stat is a red herring, but I'll run with it for the sake of argument. Here's some quick math, using your numbers. 70 lbs at birth to 2,000 lbs in adulthood for a cow is a 2,757% growth rate in the span of 2 years (the age of maturity for a cow is about 15 months- a cow lives, on average, 15 years, so 24 months would be well into adulthood for an adult cow). The average human in the United States weighs 7.5 lbs at birth and 177.9 lbs in adulthood- a 2,272% growth rate (the US life expectancy is 78.74 years- 5.24x the life expectancy of a cow). This is a 21.34% difference in growth rate, which isn't huge. My point is that the "70 lbs to 2,000 lbs" statement is just a shock number, but comparing that to human growth rate through percentages shows that we actually have similar growth rates (though comparing humans and cows is like comparing apples and Buicks, to be honest). Using the logic implied here, if a cow's growth is cancerous because of a 2,000% weight increase from birth to adulthood, normal human growth must also be cancerous because of a similar growth rate.


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## MythReindeer (Jul 3, 2013)

Edwin Ek said:


> What is cancer? The rapid unchecked proliferation of cells. A calf at birth weighs about 70 pounds on average. 2 years later it weighs 2,000 pounds. Milk is one of the most powerful carcinogens ever tested.


Hi, I obtained a Ph.D. doing cancer research. I think you misunderstand a few things. Cancer is, as you say, the rapid unchecked proliferation of cells. It involves the mutation of genes that normally regulate cellular growth, and that's what a carcinogen does: promotes mutation. The normal regulation of cellular growth involves both stimulating growth and inhibiting it. Cancer arises from a loss of growth inhibition and/or an over-activation of growth stimulation, but both stimulation and inhibition of growth are normal processes. Stimulating growth is how we reach our adult size, or build muscle through exercise, or heal from a cut.

Cancer cells usually display other dysfunctions in addition to their unregulated growth--for one, they stop _effectively_ doing whatever task they had before they mutated and transformed into cancer cells. Sometimes they ramp up whatever functions they were originally doing, like when certain adrenal tumors produce too many hormones. Other times they may lose their original function. Their structure often becomes deranged, too. They don't look like normal cells and they don't form normal tissues. That's what a tumor is--a mass of growing cancer cells that are not working properly and not forming the proper structure that normal cells would form. A cow isn't a walking tumor, because a tumor would not be able to form the properly ordered structures necessary for walking.

I doubt that milk, in and of itself, is very carcinogenic. If it were, it would cause tumors in the cow, rather than just cause the cow to grow overly large. Some cows are treated with growth hormones to stimulate their growth, but if there is a possibility that THAT might spur growth of tumors then the cows would show show evidence of tumors in addition to increased size. I don't have any direct knowledge about that, but I imagine there is a finite risk. By the by, those growth hormones given to cows are unlikely to appreciably affect humans who consume the milk, according to the American Cancer Society: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/recombinant-bovine-growth-hormone

I hope this helps.


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## Piqué (Apr 10, 2014)

Edwin Ek said:


> Here is a link to a table showing characteristics of carnivores, omnivores, herbivores, and humans.
> 
> https://www.vegsource.com/articles2/anatomy_mills.htm
> 
> What is cancer? The rapid unchecked proliferation of cells. A calf at birth weighs about 70 pounds on average. 2 years later it weighs 2,000 pounds. Milk is one of the most powerful carcinogens ever tested.


There's really no need to manufacture reasons to dislike supermarket milk when plenty of factual ones already exist...


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## dkoernert (May 31, 2011)

Do any of you all work out in the morning? I went when the gym opened at 6:30 this morning and had zero energy (yes I had coffee before I went). I couldn't even get my normal deadlift weight off of the floor. Anyone lifting have some early morning energy tips? The wife wants me around in the evenings to help out with the baby and the housework so I am trying to stick to this morning thing, but I just don't see it happening.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

dkoernert said:


> Do any of you all work out in the morning? I went when the gym opened at 6:30 this morning and had zero energy (yes I had coffee before I went). I couldn't even get my normal deadlift weight off of the floor. Anyone lifting have some early morning energy tips? The wife wants me around in the evenings to help out with the baby and the housework so I am trying to stick to this morning thing, but I just don't see it happening.


I personally can't do mornings, the two times I tried it recently (back in December/January), I ended up throwing up after 2 miles of jogging - and that was my warm up. My wife used to do Crossfit at 5am (and still does occasionally). I know she had some coffee before, but she would wake up at 4:30 and eat a small granola bar - it gave her 30 mins to digest it and it helped give her energy (so she says).


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## dkoernert (May 31, 2011)

orange fury said:


> I personally can't do mornings, the two times I tried it recently (back in December/January), I ended up throwing up after 2 miles of jogging - and that was my warm up. My wife used to do Crossfit at 5am (and still does occasionally). I know she had some coffee before, but she would wake up at 4:30 and eat a small granola bar - it gave her 30 mins to digest it and it helped give her energy (so she says).


I'm going to give it another go, but I think I am in the same situation. I've never been a morning person.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

dkoernert said:


> Do any of you all work out in the morning? I went when the gym opened at 6:30 this morning and had zero energy (yes I had coffee before I went). I couldn't even get my normal deadlift weight off of the floor. Anyone lifting have some early morning energy tips? The wife wants me around in the evenings to help out with the baby and the housework so I am trying to stick to this morning thing, but I just don't see it happening.


I do my workouts exclusively in the morning (I wake up at 4:30am) because it's the only time I have to myself before the kids wake up and I like to spend time with my wife after the kids go to bed. There are a few habits I've developed that may or may not be useful to you. I'm a fan of oil pulling (I use coconut oil) when I wake up for oral health and general antibacterial/detox properties. I then brush my teeth and drink 32 oz of filtered water (more in the summer months). This wakes up my digestive system and my body in general and I've never needed more than that to perform during my workouts. Afterwards, I make a recovery green smoothie and I'm good for the day with minimal soreness and high energy. I'm a recovering caffeine-addict so I don't drink any caffeine products, ever.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

dkoernert said:


> Do any of you all work out in the morning? I went when the gym opened at 6:30 this morning and had zero energy (yes I had coffee before I went). I couldn't even get my normal deadlift weight off of the floor. Anyone lifting have some early morning energy tips? The wife wants me around in the evenings to help out with the baby and the housework so I am trying to stick to this morning thing, but I just don't see it happening.


I mean, I get up and jog most mornings but only three miles as opposed to the four I run in the evenings and at about a 10 minute miles instead of around 9. Better than a cup of coffee to get me moving, though.


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## Elmer Zilch (Dec 13, 2008)

dkoernert said:


> Do any of you all work out in the morning? I went when the gym opened at 6:30 this morning and had zero energy (yes I had coffee before I went). I couldn't even get my normal deadlift weight off of the floor. Anyone lifting have some early morning energy tips? The wife wants me around in the evenings to help out with the baby and the housework so I am trying to stick to this morning thing, but I just don't see it happening.


Early morning lifting is tough. I can't do it, but the friends I have who do speak annoyingly of the energy and sense of well-being they feel for the rest of the day.

Plenty of sleep, coffee, water. Beyond that: Unless you lift fasted, experiment with protein/carbs/fat timed around your workout. Everyone's needs are different, and there's no magic formula. Try slow-burning carbs like brown rice and sweet potatoes. Make sure to take in some animal protein both before and after your workout and some fat (e.g., coconut oil or olive oil) before your workout.

If all else fails, you can buy one of the many pre-workout HI-NRG supplements out there. I have no experience with them, but they can't all be snake oil and/or heart-attack inducers, can they?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Elmer Zilch said:


> Early morning lifting is tough. I can't do it, but the friends I have who do speak annoyingly of the energy and sense of well-being they feel for the rest of the day.


See, I wish that was me, but I just feel sick to my stomach the rest of the day if I work out in the mornings


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## dkoernert (May 31, 2011)

Elmer Zilch said:


> Early morning lifting is tough. I can't do it, but the friends I have who do speak annoyingly of the energy and sense of well-being they feel for the rest of the day.
> 
> Plenty of sleep, coffee, water. Beyond that: Unless you lift fasted, experiment with protein/carbs/fat timed around your workout. Everyone's needs are different, and there's no magic formula. Try slow-burning carbs like brown rice and sweet potatoes. Make sure to take in some animal protein both before and after your workout and some fat (e.g., coconut oil or olive oil) before your workout.
> 
> If all else fails, you can buy one of the many pre-workout HI-NRG supplements out there. I have no experience with them, but they can't all be snake oil and/or heart-attack inducers, can they?


I am focusing on the big 3 heavily right now and trying to join the 1,000 pound club. Its been hard enough in a caloric deficit as it is. I don't think ill ever be able to wake up in the morning be able to eat enough to sling heavy weight at 6:30am.

I did experiment with pre workout a while ago and couldn't find one that didn't make me feel like I wanted to crawl out of my skin, they are all pretty nasty.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

dkoernert said:


> Do any of you all work out in the morning? I went when the gym opened at 6:30 this morning and had zero energy (yes I had coffee before I went). I couldn't even get my normal deadlift weight off of the floor. Anyone lifting have some early morning energy tips? The wife wants me around in the evenings to help out with the baby and the housework so I am trying to stick to this morning thing, but I just don't see it happening.


Prior to retirement I used to squeeze in my workouts in the wee hours of the day, prior to heading off to work. Since retirement, I continue to rise between 0415 and 0430 each morning, perk my pot of coffee, eat breakfast and screw around on the computer until 0900, at which time it's down to the basement for a one hour weight routine with a Hoist V-5 and one hour cardio routine on an elliptical machine on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. On Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays the workout begin at 0930 hours and are limited to 90 minutes on the elliptical unit. Once the exercise is out of the way, I can do whatever I want for the rest of the day with a clear conscience!


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

I hate lifting in the morning too, as my energy seems far lower. Beyond sleeping and eating enough, two things seem to help but not fix this problem: pure caffeine instead of coffee (if necessary), and slowly sipping on a mix of water, whey protein and dextrose both before and during the workout.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

dkoernert said:


> Do any of you all work out in the morning? I went when the gym opened at 6:30 this morning and had zero energy (yes I had coffee before I went). I couldn't even get my normal deadlift weight off of the floor. Anyone lifting have some early morning energy tips? The wife wants me around in the evenings to help out with the baby and the housework so I am trying to stick to this morning thing, but I just don't see it happening.


All my deliberate exercise occurs in the pre-dawn morning. I run between three and eight miles two or three times a week and lift according to a consolidated/McGuff Big Five program twice a week. In addition, I do fifteen to thirty minutes of karate kata when I return from running or lifting. My incidental exercise includes mountaineering in all seasons, whitewater, bicycling, walking with a pack, teaching CCW courses (which is more tiring that one might expect) and other Colorado mountain type activities. These all happen at whatever times they happen.


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## Elmer Zilch (Dec 13, 2008)

dkoernert said:


> I am focusing on the big 3 heavily right now and trying to join the 1,000 pound club. Its been hard enough in a caloric deficit as it is. I don't think ill ever be able to wake up in the morning be able to eat enough to sling heavy weight at 6:30am.
> 
> I did experiment with pre workout a while ago and couldn't find one that didn't make me feel like I wanted to crawl out of my skin, they are all pretty nasty.


1,000 pounds combined on a caloric deficit? Dang. If you accomplish this, you will earn the undying admiration of the silent society on these forums known informally as the "Brotherhood of the 5-lb. Tub o' Whey."

Me, I'm middle-aged and am just trying to hold onto the picayune gains I've made over the past four years while also losing weight and whittling down my midsection. My goal look: "Wiry Retired Middleweight."

Good luck, and mind your joints when you lift heavy. Tendonitis is a BEETCH.


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## shadow wilson (Aug 19, 2014)

Back to the original topic of weight loss. There is no arguing the point aside from holding on to myths.So if anyone wants to eat healthier and give up the nonsense of calorie counting,low fat,trying to do ungodly stretches of exercise go low carb_ Atkins. The result will be if needed weight loss.If weight loss is not needed it is still a better way to go. Tons of evidence on the net should any one care to look.However results are usually the best way to convince us........if you need to lose weight go low carb high fat.


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## DLW (Jun 4, 2013)

It's official! I started my weight loss journey August 27, 20014 and as of yesterday October 1, I have lost 27 lbs per my weekly weigh in on the Nutrition for Life class scale. My mind has been opened up to diet and nutrition in ways I never thought possible. From the amount of proper calories I need daily, to the type of protein, carbs, and good fats our bodies need, as well as how food affects our cells and organs. This is not a diet, but a life change I am willing commitment myself too for a better me. Just thought I would give an update. Onward to the next 25 lbs.


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## TheoProf (Dec 17, 2012)

That's great! Congrats and good luck! It really is about a lifestyle change.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Tweed McVay, you have certainly earned my respect for a weight loss journey well started. Keep up the good effort! :thumbs-up:


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Congratulations on your success. What exercise routine are you following?


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## mdm08033 (Apr 1, 2013)

Great to read! Keep up the hard work. My doctor threatened me with diabetes about three years ago. A sales lady at Saks gently told me that their range of sport coats would not fit me. Then my wife developed an attachment to another guy. My response was plenty of jogging and walking every day. I eat less, and eat eat healthy, borderline vegetarian and some Lexepro. Six month later I was 60 pounds lighter. I weigh less than I did on my wedding day. I love my 36x34 Gap "Super Skinny" jeans and my 46L suits.


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## melville74 (Apr 26, 2014)

Hey Tweed- I applaud your post. I was over weight too. I pretty much hate gyms and running, so I happened upon a $180 entry level bike from Walmart. I finally found a physical activity that makes me sweat, burns calories and fat and doesn't kill my joints. If you have access to a bike you may want to try a mile or two and see if it works for you. Download the MapMyRide app on your phone which will help. And make sure to wear a helmet and bright clothing. I love it and bought a $1300 bike (still entry level for serious cyclists) this summer. It may be your thing! If not, you'll find something. Another tip- you can track calories with MyFitnessPal on your phone/laptop. It works great and I'm down about 15 lbs.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

+1 for cycling. Finding a more complex activity to do with your improved conditioning will motivate you still further. And buying gear is fun!


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## darkmark (Feb 11, 2014)

What what brand bike did you buy? It's crazy how much some bikes cost



melville74 said:


> Hey Tweed- I applaud your post. I was over weight too. I pretty much hate gyms and running, so I happened upon a $180 entry level bike from Walmart. I finally found a physical activity that makes me sweat, burns calories and fat and doesn't kill my joints. If you have access to a bike you may want to try a mile or two and see if it works for you. Download the MapMyRide app on your phone which will help. And make sure to wear a helmet and bright clothing. I love it and bought a $1300 bike (still entry level for serious cyclists) this summer. It may be your thing! If not, you'll find something. Another tip- you can track calories with MyFitnessPal on your phone/laptop. It works great and I'm down about 15 lbs.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

I live in Reston, VA, and the presence of numerous trails has helped me see this area from a much more positive attitude. Getting out and doing something is just much more appealing than setting a bike up on a trainer and peddling away while wearing headphones. A boring workout will quickly become demotivating.

I have a cheap hybrid bike from Target (ca. $200), but I just bought my almost-13-years-old son (already 5'3") a used Motobecane small-frame "cyclocross" bike (orig. ca. $1300; I paid $400). It's clear that I will not be able to keep up with him a year from now, as my otherwise serviceable cheapie creates _way_ too much drag (and is heavy). Nonetheless, we're doing 40 miles tomorrow after I finish my morning _hap ki do_ class.

Don't turn cycling into what golf or tennis often is for others (an occasion for conspicuous consumption). OTOH, if I wanted to ride in a pack, I'd need better gear.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Tweed McVay said:


> It's official! I started my weight loss journey August 27, 20014 and as of yesterday October 1, I have lost 27 lbs per my weekly weigh in on the Nutrition for Life class scale. My mind has been opened up to diet and nutrition in ways I never thought possible. From the amount of proper calories I need daily, to the type of protein, carbs, and good fats our bodies need, as well as how food affects our cells and organs. This is not a diet, but a life change I am willing commitment myself too for a better me. Just thought I would give an update. Onward to the next 25 lbs.


Excellent work. It sounds like you've broken through the mental wall and have a clear field ahead of you.


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## Natsoi (Mar 20, 2013)

I don't know if it has been noted in this thread already or not..... sugar is the biggest enemy IMO (and no I'm not just talking about the recent anti-sugar fad). Things like soft-drinks which are just empty calories when you could just drink water. I notice when I travel to the US that the prevalence of added sugar in lots of things you would assume is not that sugary is amazing, bread is an example which comes to mind.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

McVay, 27# is a lot. You should be proud of yourself!


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## DLW (Jun 4, 2013)

I feel it is time for an update as I have now officially hit the 50 lb milestone. I've gone from 256 down to 204. (I originally thought I was 253 lbs, but per my doctors records I was 256.) I was going to wait until I hit an even 200 but what the hey. I going to post some pictures today as this last week has been a good one. I had several people that I interact with at work comment on my weight loss. Last night I attended the wedding of a niece and had several comments there as well.

My "Nutrition for Life Course "ends this next Wednesday. I will have my final weigh in and at that time, I will have a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] BMI measurement taken. My beginning BMI was 36.4% and I had a body fat weight of 89.3 lbs. I know there is controversy with BMI measurements, but that was my beginning point and I'm curious to find out my progress. I will then take over my weight loss journey myself. I have the tools and knowledge gleaned from my class for a lifetime commitment to my better health and life. If I find that I'm starting to faultier a 10 course is offered as encouragement. The class is not a lesson format class but an accountability class.

I wish to thank all you for your encouraging words with my journey I would also add that if I have offended anyone in anyway that was never my intention. Please be assured you have my heart felt apology.

I debated whether to post these pictures here or in the WAYW thread. I decided here so I could put my own thread to bed.

The coat is a thift store find from about a year ago that I am able to wear now. It's not a snug as the photos might suggest.Sleeves need to be taken up a tad. I wore tweed side out but reversed in one photo to show 2nd side. Old USA made chinos by Uncle Ralph, BB belt, shoes,Roosternit wool tie and newer LL Bean shirt and sage green sweater all thrift store finds.


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## DLW (Jun 4, 2013)

I forgot to add. I decided to show the face since you all have seen the belly.


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## ArtVandalay (Apr 29, 2010)

Nicely done, congratulations. Great saddles.


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

Egads, that's my shirt! I must check my closet.

That's a wonderful accomplishment Mr. McVay, my heartfelt congratulations. It's never an easy job, that one!


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

Reuben said:


> How about an unbiased source with citations to back up it's claims? That's no better than a site claiming crystals are the keys to healing.


SOP: don't like the conclusions so try and discredit the source. Here's a thought: the table is full of factual assertions, which are easy to check. Check them. My guess is you won't bother, because even after you confirmed the information, you wouldn't be able to let go of your beliefs.

As for your other sentences, couldn't follow your logic.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Edwin Ek said:


> SOP: don't like the conclusions so try and discredit the source. Here's a thought: the table is full of factual assertions, which are easy to check. Check them. My guess is you won't bother, because even after you confirmed the information, you wouldn't be able to let go of your beliefs.
> 
> As for your other sentences, couldn't follow your logic.


Why should I? If it's making factual assertions why doesn't it list references? And as for the rest, if I'm a pot that makes you the kettle.


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

Great job Tweedy! You should be proud of yourself for the steps you have taken, and I hope you are able to continue until you meet your goal. Do be aware that you may (if you have not already) experience some plateauing as your body adjust, so please do not get frustrated if you experience this. One way around it is to "trick" your body by changing up your diet and/or your exercise routine to keep it from making these adjustments.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Tweed McVay, you have my heartfelt congratulations, that is an AWESOME accomplishment! And most importantly, you seem to have nailed the most important part that so many seem to forget- a healthy lifestyle is a lifelong journey that doesn't end once you hit your goal weight.

Congrats again!


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## Piqué (Apr 10, 2014)

Throw me in as someone who extols the necessity of lifting to help maintain muscle mass when losing weight. Here's a good thread about it: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/...rbidly-obese-to-6-pack-abs-ask-me-anything/p1


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Piqué said:


> Throw me in as someone who extols the necessity of lifting to help maintain muscle mass when losing weight. Here's a good thread about it: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/...rbidly-obese-to-6-pack-abs-ask-me-anything/p1


This is consistent with my lifetime experience, although I have maintained my weight throughout, so losing has not been an issue. I combine martial arts training, weights and lower-body cardio (running, biking, mountaineering, stair climbing, etc.) Exercise allows me to eat a comfortable amount without gaining weight.


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

Piqué said:


> Throw me in as someone who extols the necessity of lifting to help maintain muscle mass when losing weight. Here's a good thread about it: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/...rbidly-obese-to-6-pack-abs-ask-me-anything/p1


I totally agree with this as well. In addition, lifting weights as an adult male will also help keep osteoporosis at bay. And while we are not as susceptible to this as women are, it is still something that can impact us in later times. I am also a huge fan of yoga and pilates, even if done sporadically or on your own.


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## red_shift (Aug 8, 2013)

Tweed McVay, excellent work!

I have seen this happen with friends and family before; they are told they need to lose a significant amount and they start off with the best intentions. Then they lose 20lbs for three or four months and gain in back over the next two. I hope you get to your goal weight and as you approach it I think you'll be able to maintain since you've made the distinction that you are living a different lifestyle and not simply dieting. I hope you recognize that your accomplishment, and the maintenance thereof, is unique and you've entered the realm of the outlier. Congratulations on the 50lbs lost.


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