# Sport coat to wear with Mock Turtleneck?



## vangogh57 (Nov 9, 2011)

What color or combination of colors for a sport coat would you recommend to go with a black turtle neck/gray slacks and gray turtleneck with black slacks? Also, how would that change if slacks were different color?
Thanks 
Vangogh57


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

The real first question is what color are you? The choices of turtleneck and slacks you provided go with just about anything so what you need is to find out what color coat would go best with your complexion. First go here (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/Tutorials/CindyBuschColorAnalysis.htm) and follow the flow chart to get the season of your coloration. Then scroll down to the 'suits' for that season and pick which color you like best. Once you've done that, all you need is to choose the material. For such a classic casual look as you would appear to want, tweed herringbone would be hard to beat.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

Biting my tongue!


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

There isn't a sport coat to wear with a mock turtleneck,sir. Please don't wear such a thing, but then again, Steve Jobs wore one and taking into consideration the deification of this man...


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

What is a "mock turtleneck"?

I know what mock turtle soup is. Approximately, anyway.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Starch said:


> What is a "mock turtleneck"?
> 
> I know what mock turtle soup is. Approximately, anyway.


On a turtleneck the cylinder of fabric goes up the neck, and is folded inside out and comes back down the neck. In other words , two ply. A mock turtleneck has a shorter cylinder of fabric, and only goes up the neck; single ply. From a distance they look the same.


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

I wear a black-and-white puppytooth sport coat with either my black crew-neck jumper or charcoal jumper.

I've seen quite a few members mock the mock turtleneck. For me, a genuine turtleneck look so much better on women then men; a lower neckline - a mock turtleneck or crew-neck - flatter men better. the proper turtleneck, when worn by men, looks 'pretentious' and 'dated' - not my words, but words I have heard many times about this article of clothing in regards to men.


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Jake Genezen said:


> I wear a black-and-white puppytooth sport coat with either my black crew-neck jumper or charcoal jumper.
> 
> I've seen quite a few members mock the mock turtleneck. For me, a genuine turtleneck look so much better on women then men; a lower neckline - a mock turtleneck or crew-neck - flatter men better. the proper turtleneck, when worn by men, looks 'pretentious' and 'dated' - not my words, but words I have heard many times about this article of clothing in regards to men.


Good advice imo. The combo can look great, but few designers have figured out that guys look better in mocks with lower necklines.


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## PTB in San Diego (Jan 2, 2010)

Turtlenecks and mock-turtlenecks have an unfortunate association in my mind with 60's modsters and bell-bottoms and huge bronze chains with peace medaillons, or maybe with the cool guy at the church social in the 80's. Do you have adorably shaggy hair?

If you want a devil-may-care, New York-Euro-Mick Jagger-dressed-up look, I'd suggest a t-shirt in lieu of the mock-turtleneck, preferably a very nice, silk, very black one. Banana Republic used to have pima cotton tees in black and in white -- I bought a few of them and I like them a lot, very nice against the skin, and the blacks are very black, and the finish is polished. I'd do the black with either charcoal or black pants, although I guess I don't wear black pants any more. I wouldn't do the gray.

As far as color for sport coat, with black and charcoal, the options are wide open. I even wear a black silk tee with a navy suit, or with a navy sport coat (horrors! gasp! the AA stalwarts will ban me!!), and, frankly, I get compliments. Err on the side of darker. (Please tell me you wouldn't consider a lighter-colored sport coat with that dark combination.) I have a black and brown houndstooth that looks great with a black tee, as does my dark camel cashmere.

By the way, wash black cotton very carefully. Inside out, cold, gentle cycle or hand. It lightens in color very easily.

P.s.... if you can't pull this look off, don't try it. 

https://photos.lucywho.com/mick-jagger-photo-gallery-c15855513.htmlhttps://photos.lucywho.com/mick-jagger-photo-gallery-c15580087.html


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

arkirshner said:


> From a distance they look the same.


Sorry, but I beg to differ. Mock turtlenecks are one of my pet peeves. To me they don't look right, and don't look good. A good turtleneck will tend to be significantly higher after being folded than a mock turtleneck. I guess if one's neck can't accommodate a turtleneck (To which I would argue to just let it bunch up anyway.) I guess it's a compromise, but not a happy one. To me, they always look like presumptuous T-shirts, or a turtleneck that never grew up, and I feel the proportion looks all wrong with a tailored jacket.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> The real first question is what color are you? The choices of turtleneck and slacks you provided go with just about anything so what you need is to find out what color coat would go best with your complexion. First go here (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/Tutorials/CindyBuschColorAnalysis.htm) and follow the flow chart to get the season of your coloration. Then scroll down to the 'suits' for that season and pick which color you like best. Once you've done that, all you need is to choose the material. For such a classic casual look as you would appear to want, tweed herringbone would be hard to beat.


With all respect, these seasonal color matching schemes are over-hyped, simplistic and often misleading. It's a lot more complicated than that.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

vangogh57 said:


> What color or combination of colors for a sport coat would you recommend to go with a black turtle neck/gray slacks and gray turtleneck with black slacks? Also, how would that change if slacks were different color?
> Thanks
> Vangogh57


This one -









Lots, they're all neutrals. But if you're a "winter" you better select one in fuchsia.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> A good turtleneck will tend to be significantly higher after being folded than a mock turtleneck.


Depending on how far they are folded over, I guess you are right. What I was trying to say, was that from a distance the observer sees that its a man wearing a turtleneck. Whether it's an inch or so higher or lower on the neck is not apparent until the observer gets much closer.


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## DG123 (Sep 16, 2011)

Moc turtlenecks are sporty. Good choice for a golf shirt.


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> With all respect, these seasonal color matching schemes are over-hyped, simplistic and often misleading. It's a lot more complicated than that.


However, if OP is a 'Winter' a black-and-white puppytooth sportcoat will flatter him better than a black-and-brown puppytooth. If he is looking to buy a sportcoat, surely it is common-sense to buy something that flatters him the most. The idea of the 'seasons' thing is to save you money.

Browsing the Style Forum now-and-again (I'm not a member), I see some really nice (and expensive) outfits, but look terrible on the person because it's in conflict with their complexion, etc. However, this is generally not noted - they are in praise, but only of the clothes, not the whole composition.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

I wear BB's black merino, um, crew neck with their Prince of Wales sport coat. It was probably billed as a "mock turtle," but no one would confuse it with a turtle neck, even from a distance. I do share the concerns about the mock turtle, so don't skewer me completely.


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

eyedoc2180 said:


> I wear BB's black merino, um, crew neck with their Prince of Wales sport coat. It was probably billed as a "mock turtle," but no one would confuse it with a turtle neck, even from a distance. I do share the concerns about the mock turtle, so don't skewer me completely.


I bet it's a sharp combo. Does the BB Prince of Wales have the purple overcheck?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Jake Genezen said:


> However, if OP is a 'Winter' a black-and-white puppytooth sportcoat will flatter him better than a black-and-brown puppytooth.


Sorry, but I don't agree. It would depend on the brown. (A word that disguises an incredibly rich and varied palette of colors.) And if he were to select a color other than black or grey to wear below his face, the choices become even greater.

I'm a "winter." (An old, cold and snowy one!) And it's amazing what I can get away with. Variety is the life of spice!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Well, when one reaches a certain age, one can get away with anything! I hope I'm approaching that point, not because I want to be old but getting away with things appeals greatly. :icon_smile_big:


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

Under your baseball jersey.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

JDC said:


> I bet it's a sharp combo. Does the BB Prince of Wales have the purple overcheck?


Mrs. Eye has the color vision in the family. Ironic, I know. She reports a red/rust undertone. It is the camelhair version, circa 2003. The fit is now a bit snug, as it seems to shrink every year. I hate when that happens!


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> Sorry, but I don't agree. It would depend on the brown. (A word that disguises an incredibly rich and varied palette of colors.) And if he were to select a color other than black or grey to wear below his face, the choices become even greater.
> 
> I'm a "winter." (An old, cold and snowy one!) And it's amazing what I can get away with. Variety is the life of spice!


+1. I can't even figure out what season I am. I have characteristics of every season. The best thing to do is to wear what you like. The only colour that flatters few people is solid black.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

As for the topic at hand, I'm not a fan of mock turtlenecks with sports coats, or anything else for that matter. All mock turtlenecks I've seen are always half the height of turtlenecks. And they also have larger collars. Both of those attributes are why they don't work with a sports coat. A real turtleneck works much better, and is by far more classic. Mock turtle necks are the ones that look outdated. They remind me of the 90s.


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

David J. Cooper said:


> Under your baseball jersey.


Hey I like you.


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Matt with all respect, be careful with the "all" and "always". A few nice (and entirely workable with a coat) mocks are out there. E.g.: https://patrickjames.com/1223/Patrick-James-Cashmere-Mock-Turtleneck-Sweater.aspx


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

Matt S said:


> The only colour that flatters few people is solid black.


I agree; the only people who can wear black are 'winters' :wink2:.



> I can't even figure out what season I am. I have characteristics of every season.


However, that doesn't make the theory less valid, just that you don't know what 'season' you are.

The theory that Carol Jackson talks about is taken from a whole host of colour and art theory - it is not just some whim. However, it is just that, a 'theory'. Some people have more faith in it then others, I guess. Just like there are theories about how certain silhouettes flatter certain body shapes, etc.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Matt S said:


> +1. The best thing to do is to wear what you like.


True, if your goal is to please yourself.

False, if your goal is to look your best.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

JDC said:


> Matt with all respect, be careful with the "all" and "always". A few nice (and entirely workable with a coat) mocks are out there. E.g.: https://patrickjames.com/1223/Patrick-James-Cashmere-Mock-Turtleneck-Sweater.aspx


I was indeed careful, since I wrote "All mock turtlenecks _I've seen_..." You must have missed that part. But I don't see how that one from Patrick James could work with a coat. It looks like all the others I've seen. It's mostly on how the mock turtleneck collar slopes down and doesn't hug the neck. The sports coat collar won't sit right around that mock turtleneck collar. That's why a regular turtleneck works so much better.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Jake Genezen said:


> I agree; the only people who can wear black are 'winters' :wink2:.


Some winters have pale skin, which obviously would not look good in black either. Black is far too powerful for someone with pale skin.

But from the descriptions of each season, it sounds like there are a lot of overlaps. I know for sure that I'm not a winter. But colours in clothes have meaning, and for that reason we can't just wear colours in our "palate." If I want to wear a pea coat the only choice I have is dark navy. It's just not right in anything else. Going by seasonal complexion is one way of dressing. Going by the earth's seasons and location is the more traditional way to dress, and I don't see anything wrong with that. If I'm an autumn, I think it would look strange to wear autumnal colours in summer. Both methods of dress need to be considered to be well-dressed.


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Matt S said:


> I was indeed careful, since I wrote "All mock turtlenecks _I've seen_..." You must have missed that part. But I don't see how that one from Patrick James could work with a coat. It looks like all the others I've seen. It's mostly on how the mock turtleneck collar slopes down and doesn't hug the neck. The sports coat collar won't sit right around that mock turtleneck collar. That's why a regular turtleneck works so much better.


Matt, if one buys the correct size, the neck sits vertically when the sweater is put on. It's just the right amount of height to accomodate a sports coat without looking effete. Your point that full turtlenecks don't have this problem is correct, but they have a worse problem: if you're over 40 and/or have a waist size that's anywhere close, it's almost certain you look like a U-boat captain in them. Mocks are almost as bad but not quite.

FYI I missed nothing in your post. It was misleading imo. Nobody can argue with your own experience, I'm just questioning the amount here. Both your OP and response in this thread indicate not much on this topic. So try one of these PJ's or similar. They look great with a coat.

Also fyi your claim that you've never seen one worthy of a coat is incorrect. This is from your own blog:










One last note, any clothing designer will tell you black is the single most ubiquitously flattering color for both men and women. Only extreme winter types have a problem with it. I'm almost embarrassed mentioning it, considering your blog etc.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

JDC, in Connery's example the collar slopes too much at the bottom, so I honestly don't think that one would work well with a sports coat either. I had this example in mind when I wrote here before. The collar and shoulders of a sports coat will not sit right with such a collar because the collar slopes down his shoulders. There's a bump there that will interfere with the jacket. It would come out looking sloppy.

Pierce Brosnan wore a real turtleneck with a sports coat successfully on Remington Steele. The turtleneck ends right at the base of the neck, which is why it works. It would have been better if it were pulled down all the way.










As for black, where have you been every time someone here says that black is the least flattering colour and is the main reason to avoid black suits? And the article on seasonal colours says that black only suits Winters and tells Spring and Autumn complexions to avoid black. I found another article that tells summers to avoid black as well. However, black is indeed flattering in that it is slimming. That is why it is recommended, not because it flatters the complexion. But pale winters obviously would not look good in black since it would make them look even paler.


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Matt, formal tuxedos are black, formal parties are black tie etc. It's simply a given that black flatters the highest percentage of men, it's been that way for a very long time.

As for the mock discussion I'm tempted to keep it going just so you'll keep posting more pics.  Great stuff. If you haven't seen Brora's site for Fall 2011 you should. I agree that full t-necks look better (at least if you have the jawline for it.. guys with weak ones should stay at least 100 feet away from them), but ime (personal) some mocks look great. Instead of telling us what you think they'll look like, try one of the PJs or similar and then tell us what you think. Here's another one, from Paul Frederick. I'd choose a different color for the mock in this combo, but if you think it can't look great especially on the right guy we'll need to agree to disagree.


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## sunjh2004 (Dec 31, 2010)

I prefer true turtleneck/roll neck sweaters. One of my all time favourite winter Friday styles. Looks great on lean/slimmer guys. Make sure the sweater is not the chunky type though it looks like the cream nautical one is quite in now.


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## sunjh2004 (Dec 31, 2010)

BTW, forgot to mention, this is a perfect example of playing "colour blocking" since the jacket and sweater can be solid and it looks super neat and chic. But a patterned jacket is another story.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

JDC said:


>


I agree with you here. That's a good combo (and I actually like the color of the mock turtleneck). And the mock turtleneck in that picture would work with a sports coat (though I would still prefer a full turtleneck). I like that one better than most I see. IMO, full turtlenecks are more timeless while mock turtlenecks remind me of the 90s. The great thing about turtlenecks is that they keep your neck warm. That's a practical advantage. The downside is most places are overheated. I wear them if I know I'll be outside a lot. Do you have any pictures of well-dressed men in a mock turtleneck and sports coat? Here's a great page on Steve McQueen and the turtleneck:
https://42ndblackwatch1881.wordpress.com/2011/05/08/the-turtleneck-from-beatniks-to-bullitt/

As for the discussion on black, I'll start a new topic on that to leave this one for Mock Turtlenecks.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Starch said:


> What is a "mock turtleneck"?
> 
> I know what mock turtle soup is. Approximately, anyway.


Well it's a sort of sweater that's made from mock turtle, just like the soup.
The thing is mock turtles are a critically endangered species. This kind of thing should really be outlawed now.


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## Rolex Luthor (Jan 5, 2009)

MikeDT said:


> Well it's a sort of sweater that's made from mock turtle, just like the soup.
> The thing is mock turtles are a critically endangered species. This kind of thing should really be outlawed now.


+1. To paraphrase Esquire, "Before wearing your mock turtleneck, pre-treat it by throwing it away."


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