# can someone comment my new bespoke suit?



## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

https://imageshack.us
https://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=519&i=image00000gj4.jpg

took this photo when the trousers was not finished yet.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

https://imageshack.us


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

https://imageshack.us


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

https://imageshack.us


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

https://imageshack.us


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

https://imageshack.us


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

https://imageshack.us


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

Is the jacket just a smidge to tight? The button seems to be pulling. The sleeves seem to be a little short. The button stance is too high for my taste but that is a matter of personal preference. I'm not trying to rain on your parade this is just what I see.

I love the colors. The pattern matching is good.

Tough to tell about the pants. I recommend that you have them sit at your natural waist.


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## alphadelta (Oct 2, 2007)

In the first photo (you are wearing it), there appears to be a bit of "stress" where it is buttoned -- as if it fits too tight. It's difficult to tell in the photo, but it also looks a bit too tight where the sleeves meet the shoulders -- not quite wide enough. You are showing a bit too much shirt cuff -- either your shirt sleeves are too long, or the suit sleeves are too short. The lapel "button hole" should not be a "keyhole" shaped "button hole" but rather tapered at both ends. The contrasting "lace stitching" on the lining is not my cup of tea, but that's just a preference.

Just my thoughts,
AD


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## joshuagb (Nov 27, 2004)

The pattern matching is really nice. The fit of the coat is pretty exact. These folks say tight, but really, it's probably not too tight as long as you're standing still. I mean, you may or may not want to have the waist let out a smidgen. The shoulders look fine.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

It does not look too tight to me (other than at the top button). However, I do agree that either the sleeves are too short or the shirt sleeves are too long. 

Also, there seems to be some air pocket on the right shoulder/chest area that is absent from your left side.


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## minimal (Dec 10, 2004)

Nice! It's a very high stance. I *like* a high stance, but that's even a bit high for me. Still, beautiful coat.


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

alphadelta said:


> In the first photo (you are wearing it), there appears to be a bit of "stress" where it is buttoned -- as if it fits too tight. It's difficult to tell in the photo, but it also looks a bit too tight where the sleeves meet the shoulders -- not quite wide enough. You are showing a bit too much shirt cuff -- either your shirt sleeves are too long, or the suit sleeves are too short. The lapel "button hole" should not be a "keyhole" shaped "button hole" but rather tapered at both ends. *The contrasting "lace stitching" on the lining is not my cup of tea, but that's just a preference*.
> Just my thoughts,
> AD


Different strokes for different folks. I like the contrast stitching on the lining. I hope you don't get discouraged by the "beating" you're taking here. A lot of what is said, like the button stance and contrast lacing, is just a matter of taste.


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

It looks a little snug since the top button is slightly pulling,
The sleeves seem a little short
Is it my imagination that the left side is slightly longer than the right?


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I almost posted the first response in this thread earlier today, but then didn't after I told myself that I really don't know that much about the subject given that I seldom wear a suit. My two comments were going to be that the shirt sleeves are too long or the coat sleeves are too short, and I was going to opine that I thought it was a little of both.

My second comment was going to be that I thought the coat was a little too tight. It looks like a typical guy's suit after he's had it a few years and added a pound or two since it was new. I was going to suggest that perhaps you should allow a smidgen of "room to grow".

Now after reading the other posts, maybe I know more than I thought I did. 

Cruiser


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

For purposes of comparing bespoke to MTM, could MTM have produced the same results?


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## couch (Mar 8, 2005)

The body looks nice; the quarters cross just a bit at the bottom front (note how the stripes angle inward), which may be improvable in the next suit. The chest is a bit too clean for my taste; adding just a bit of drape might also help alleviate the tension on the top button, and reduce the visual impression that the suit is restrictive. If the canvas is very light, a little more structure in the front/lapel area might also help this, as might a little more shaping of the cloth over the upper chest if needed (did your tailor use under-lapel darts?). I would prefer more roll where the lapel meets the front edge at the top button; this would be a question of pad stitching and canvas weight. The lapel notch (gorge) looks very high; it may be just right for you--hard to tell because of the high camera angle. It looks to me that the cuffs of the shirt are somewhat loose and slip down over the hand more than might be ideal; were the cuffs a little more fitted, I'd guess the coat sleeves would be about the right length.

The fit of the collar and shoulders are very important and hard to judge from these pictures; as far as I can tell, the shoulder width looks good. I would look into the cause(s) of the wrinkling on the sleeves. If you are standing in a natural posture in the photo, it may be that the sleeve pitch (the rotational angle at which the sleeve is attached to the body), the sleeve shape (amount of arm-curve built in), the way the sleevehead is set in to the body, or the width and taper of the sleeve should be adjusted in the next suit. Or it may simply be that the shirt sleeves are very full and causing the coat sleeves to bunch. Or some combination of these causes. Your goal is for the sleeves to fall with little or no horizontal wrinkling when your arms hang naturally at rest. 

Is this your first suit from this tailor? If so, you are off to a good start.


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

Nice fabric and good lapel width.

Montgomery, are you sure this is full bespoke?
How much did you pay for this and where, if you don't mind me asking?


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

clothesboy said:


> Is the jacket just a smidge to tight? The button seems to be pulling. The sleeves seem to be a little short. The button stance is too high for my taste but that is a matter of personal preference. I'm not trying to rain on your parade this is just what I see.
> 
> I love the colors. The pattern matching is good.
> 
> Tough to tell about the pants. I recommend that you have them sit at your natural waist.


Thank you for your comment.
The jacket is a little tight,the tailor told me the same idea,but I insisted to do that,I just wanna to try a very fit jacket which I never had.
The sleeves are ok,I think,an inch shorter than the sleeves of shirt.
The button stance is too high,I agree with you on this point,the tailor also told me this when he was cutting the pattern,I think the position of first button is very important,it decides how much part of the tie can be seen,I use this jacket as an experiment that what button stance is best for me,I will adjust it next time,in fact,already done in my next jacket which is being made.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

alphadelta said:


> In the first photo (you are wearing it), there appears to be a bit of "stress" where it is buttoned -- as if it fits too tight. It's difficult to tell in the photo, but it also looks a bit too tight where the sleeves meet the shoulders -- not quite wide enough. You are showing a bit too much shirt cuff -- either your shirt sleeves are too long, or the suit sleeves are too short. The lapel "button hole" should not be a "keyhole" shaped "button hole" but rather tapered at both ends. The contrasting "lace stitching" on the lining is not my cup of tea, but that's just a preference.
> 
> Just my thoughts,
> AD


Thanks for your comments.It si a little tight,that's what I told the tailor,I wanna try a very fit suit,unfortunately I put on some weight in the two months he finished the suit.

Is the shirt cuff showing too much?I think an inch of shirt cuff is ok,what is the standard length in your opinion?

I love the keyhole button hole,many ready-to-wear jackets have this feature.The button hole was sewn by hand,the tailor was not likely to do a tapered one which is too simple and easy.

The lace stitching lining is completely hand work,I like it.

Thank you for comments.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

joshuagb said:


> The pattern matching is really nice. The fit of the coat is pretty exact. These folks say tight, but really, it's probably not too tight as long as you're standing still. I mean, you may or may not want to have the waist let out a smidgen. The shoulders look fine.


Thanks for comments.I think it is not very tight but just very fit,I asked the tailor to do that.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

rkipperman said:


> It does not look too tight to me (other than at the top button). However, I do agree that either the sleeves are too short or the shirt sleeves are too long.
> 
> Also, there seems to be some air pocket on the right shoulder/chest area that is absent from your left side.


Is an inch of shirt cuff out of jacket sleeves too long?I think it is the standard length.

The right shoulder/chest is the same with left side,maybe a problem of the pic.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

minimal said:


> Nice! It's a very high stance. I *like* a high stance, but that's even a bit high for me. Still, beautiful coat.


Thanks mate.I just wanna try a high stance,I want the tie to be seen at a suitable length.However,I have asked the tailor to move it down by an inch in my next jacket.


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## red96 (Jun 26, 2007)

My OTR suits pull a little bit at the button the way yours does. It doesn't bother me, but if I was paying for bespoke, I would probably ask the tailor to adjust it.

I agree with the prior posters who suggested the sleeves of the jacket are too short. There are other threads on the forum that provide good guidance about how much sleeve to show, and while your tastes should guide how you dress, I would normally show a bit less shirt sleeve.

Overall, very nice suit!


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

clothesboy said:


> Different strokes for different folks. I like the contrast stitching on the lining. I hope you don't get discouraged by the "beating" you're taking here. A lot of what is said, like the button stance and contrast lacing, is just a matter of taste.


Yes,I like the lining lacing too,it's also a sign of hand work.Different guy,different taste.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

shirtguy said:


> It looks a little snug since the top button is slightly pulling,
> The sleeves seem a little short
> Is it my imagination that the left side is slightly longer than the right?


Almost all remarks mentioned the short sleeves,but I think they are just appropriate.Should the shirt cuffs an inch longer than the jacket sleeves?

The left side is as long as the right one,they were cut together.

Thank you for comments.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> I almost posted the first response in this thread earlier today, but then didn't after I told myself that I really don't know that much about the subject given that I seldom wear a suit. My two comments were going to be that the shirt sleeves are too long or the coat sleeves are too short, and I was going to opine that I thought it was a little of both.
> 
> My second comment was going to be that I thought the coat was a little too tight. It looks like a typical guy's suit after he's had it a few years and added a pound or two since it was new. I was going to suggest that perhaps you should allow a smidgen of "room to grow".
> 
> ...


Thank you Cruiser.Yes the jacket is a little tight.In fact I grew almost 20 pounds during the two months in which the tailor was finishing the suit.

Why do all of you think the sleeves too short?They are just one inch shorter than cuffs of shirt.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

rkipperman said:


> For purposes of comparing bespoke to MTM, could MTM have produced the same results?


Not sure,haven't tried MTM.


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## cpac (Mar 25, 2005)

montgomery said:


> Is an inch of shirt cuff out of jacket sleeves too long?I think it is the standard length.


An inch is very long.

More standard is 1/4 or 1/2 of and inch.

Still, it's a very nice suit. Enjoy!


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

couch said:


> The body looks nice; the quarters cross just a bit at the bottom front (note how the stripes angle inward), which may be improvable in the next suit. The chest is a bit too clean for my taste; adding just a bit of drape might also help alleviate the tension on the top button, and reduce the visual impression that the suit is restrictive. If the canvas is very light, a little more structure in the front/lapel area might also help this, as might a little more shaping of the cloth over the upper chest if needed (did your tailor use under-lapel darts?). I would prefer more roll where the lapel meets the front edge at the top button; this would be a question of pad stitching and canvas weight. The lapel notch (gorge) looks very high; it may be just right for you--hard to tell because of the high camera angle. It looks to me that the cuffs of the shirt are somewhat loose and slip down over the hand more than might be ideal; were the cuffs a little more fitted, I'd guess the coat sleeves would be about the right length.
> 
> The fit of the collar and shoulders are very important and hard to judge from these pictures; as far as I can tell, the shoulder width looks good. I would look into the cause(s) of the wrinkling on the sleeves. If you are standing in a natural posture in the photo, it may be that the sleeve pitch (the rotational angle at which the sleeve is attached to the body), the sleeve shape (amount of arm-curve built in), the way the sleevehead is set in to the body, or the width and taper of the sleeve should be adjusted in the next suit. Or it may simply be that the shirt sleeves are very full and causing the coat sleeves to bunch. Or some combination of these causes. Your goal is for the sleeves to fall with little or no horizontal wrinkling when your arms hang naturally at rest.
> 
> Is this your first suit from this tailor? If so, you are off to a good start.


Thanks couch,very professional comments.
The jacket is a little tight,both the body and sleeves,I asked the tailor to do that,as I wanted to try a very fit jacket.The sleeves are very thin,because all the jackets I have seen are of too fat sleeves in my idea,so I asked the tailor to cut fit sleeves,which caused the wrinkling.I was told by the tailor what effect it may cause,but I insisted to try.
The tailor didn't use under-lapel darts,he asked me whether to use under-lapel darts,it may help the chest looks better,but sacrifice the pattern match of the cloth.
This is the first suit from this tailor,next is to be finished.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

Bonhamesque said:


> Nice fabric and good lapel width.
> 
> Montgomery, are you sure this is full bespoke?
> How much did you pay for this and where, if you don't mind me asking?


Yes,full bespoke and hand work.The tailor finished the full suit in hand,and himself,both jacket and trousers.

He cut patterns for me,and three fittings,it took 2 months,I visited him a few times to watch him working on this suit.

Price:about USD 670 for workmanship,I brought the fabric to the tailor,the fabric was about USD 22 per metre,I used 2.8 metres.The overall price is about USD 730.We are in China.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

red96 said:


> My OTR suits pull a little bit at the button the way yours does. It doesn't bother me, but if I was paying for bespoke, I would probably ask the tailor to adjust it.
> 
> I agree with the prior posters who suggested the sleeves of the jacket are too short. There are other threads on the forum that provide good guidance about how much sleeve to show, and while your tastes should guide how you dress, I would normally show a bit less shirt sleeve.
> 
> Overall, very nice suit!


Thank you,mate,will work on this point.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

cpac said:


> An inch is very long.
> 
> More standard is 1/4 or 1/2 of and inch.
> 
> Still, it's a very nice suit. Enjoy!


In fact,mine is about 2cm,4/5 inch I think.

https://imageshack.us

Look at this pic,are Prince Charles' coat sleeves too short?


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

Your suit looks great, wear it in good health. The fabric is very nice, and the lining with the stitching looks very unique. It seems like you made a very good choice.


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## DunninLA (Aug 17, 2007)

montgomery said:


> In fact,mine is about 2cm,4/5 inch I think.
> 
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> Look at this pic,is Prince Charles' coat sleeves too short?


No, his SHIRT sleeves were cut too long. They fall too far onto his hand. Almost to the knuckle!

Regarding your sleeve length, it is always a balancing act between the length of the shirt sleeve and that of the jacket sleeve. If you buy your shirts OTR, then you will have this variability, and the just-at-the-edge-of-being-too-short jacket sleeve will indeed be too short for a shirt sleeve that hangs slightly long, as does the shirt sleeve in your picture.

Regarding the pulling button -- how on earth does a man gain 20 pounds in two months? Are you training in a dojo?


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## DunninLA (Aug 17, 2007)

This is quite a coincidence. I bought an OTR suit six months ago in dowtown LA from the company that both runs Nino Ferretti store here in LA, but also distributes a few brands from Italy. It is almost identical to your fabric, but slightly darker grey. That is a purple/lavender/plum color pin stripe right?


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

montgomery said:


> Why do all of you think the sleeves too short?They are just one inch shorter than cuffs of shirt.


I know that I said I thought they were too short, but that was just my personal opinion. They are not too short if that is the way you like them. After all, it is your suit and you should wear it the way you like it. It's just personal preference, that's all.

For me personally, I'm not a big fan of showing a lot of cuff. I actually like for my shirt and coat sleeves to be exactly the same length or perhaps just a tiny bit of shirt extending out, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch. I think that the cuff showing should be a subtle accent to the overall effect whereas with an inch it simply draws too much attention to that one aspect of the suit. But again, that's just me and I'm certainly no expert in this matter.

Cruiser


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

DunninLA said:


> No, his sleeves were cut too long. They fall to far onto his hand.
> 
> Regarding your sleeve length, it is always a balancing act between the length of the shirt sleeve and that of the jacket sleeve. If you buy your shirts OTR, then you will have this variability, and the just-at-the-edge-of-being-too-short jacket sleeve will indeed be too short for a shirt sleeve that hangs slightly long, as does the shirt sleeve in your picture.
> 
> Regarding the pulling button -- how on earth does a man gain 20 pounds in two months? Are you training in a dojo?


My shirt is OTR,I think it is the problem of shirt sleeves,too long.

Ate too much,snacks after supper,best way to put on weight.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

DunninLA said:


> This is quite a coincidence. I bought an OTR suit six months ago in dowtown LA from the company that both runs Nino Ferretti store here in LA, but also distributes a few brands from Italy. It is almost identical to your fabric, but slightly darker grey. That is a purple/lavender/plum color pin stripe right?


My fabric is dark grey,with pin stripes,very cheap,about USD 22 per metre.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> I know that I said I thought they were too short, but that was just my personal opinion. They are not too short if that is the way you like them. After all, it is your suit and you should wear it the way you like it. It's just personal preference, that's all.
> 
> For me personally, I'm not a big fan of showing a lot of cuff. I actually like for my shirt and coat sleeves to be exactly the same length or perhaps just a tiny bit of shirt extending out, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch. I think that the cuff showing should be a subtle accent to the overall effect whereas with an inch it simply draws too much attention to that one aspect of the suit. But again, that's just me and I'm certainly no expert in this matter.
> 
> Cruiser


Thank you,Cruiser.Now I believe it is because of my shirt,which is OTR,and french cuff.If I was wearing a common button cuff shirt,the sleeves of jacket will seem relatively longer.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

omairp said:


> Your suit looks great, wear it in good health. The fabric is very nice, and the lining with the stitching looks very unique. It seems like you made a very good choice.


Thank you,mate.


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## comrade (May 26, 2005)

Is it my imagination? But the suit, in addition to being a bit snug,
looks stiff. Frankly, it looks "asian" to me like suits I've seen
from Thailand and other bargain bespoke centers.


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

montgomery said:


> Yes,full bespoke and hand work.The tailor finished the full suit in hand,and himself,both jacket and trousers.
> 
> He cut patterns for me,and three fittings,it took 2 months,I visited him a few times to watch him working on this suit.
> 
> Price:about USD 670 for workmanship,I brought the fabric to the tailor,the fabric was about USD 22 per metre,I used 2.8 metres.The overall price is about USD 730.We are in China.


Definitely full bespoke then by the sounds of it and a good price too.
I agree with you that the suit sleeves look ok, it's the shirt sleeves that are too long. That's why you're showing too much cuff.
The very slight pull on the front button doesn't really bother me. You could burp twice and it would disappear.
What does bother me though is the creasing down the front of the sleeves. It almost appears as if the sleeves are pitched too far back, it might be worth mentioning it to the tailor.

Personally I would also have preferred a bit more waist suppression but this is obviously subjective.
Like I said, the lapel width is good (up to date) and the notch is nice and high so the suit is definitely current IMO.


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## Gong Tao Jai (Jul 7, 2005)

Montgomery, who is the tailor?


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

rkipperman said:


> For purposes of comparing bespoke to MTM, could MTM have produced the same results?


Anybody?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

You show more cuff than I would like, but otherwise, I really like your suit.


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## susanc (Jul 31, 2007)

The saddle stitching is a beautiful detail and works wonderfully with the pin-stripes, a good choice. Lovely buttonholes. The pulling in the sleeves need some attention, as has been previously noted. 
The pants from what I see are very well done.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

montgomery said:


> Thanks for your comments.It si a little tight,that's what I told the tailor,I wanna try a very fit suit,unfortunately I put on some weight in the two months he finished the suit.
> 
> Is the shirt cuff showing too much?I think an inch of shirt cuff is ok,what is the standard length in your opinion?
> 
> ...


take a couple of those extra pounds off and you have a very good body fit. shirt sleeves too long but if you move the shirt cuff buttons tighter, and the cuff will come up. 
the front edge at the bottom overlaps, unless you are standing too erect, and not relaxed.
still there could be a bit more curve on the lower front.
really dont care for all the fru fru on the inside. fancy linings i understand but all those useless stitches are just for show. imho not very gentlemanly.
the buttonholes are all very well made by hand.
but i am surprised that with all the inside fuss, that the jacket edges are not stitched.
edge stitching firms up the edge and is more important than that fussy inside.
could you give us a close up of the lapel buttonhole.
the inside view of the trouser shows good construction and a good deal of hand work.
it looks as though you have two watch pockets, one inside and one outside.
is the larger one for your cell phone?


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## Pipps (Dec 20, 2005)

It looks like a good suit, for the price.

The sleeves appear to be creasing rather more than you should expect.

I would've also preferred a slimmer silhouette. That is just my personal preference.

The fabric looks very nice and you have a done a good job controlling the lighting in your photos.

Well done!


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## joshuagb (Nov 27, 2004)

a tailor said:


> shirt sleeves too long but if you move the shirt cuff buttons tighter, and the cuff will come up.


This is a good point. The sleeves on the suit coat don't look like they're too long. The sleeves on the shirt don't look too long either. In general, you want a little extra length on your sleeves to keep them from riding up when you raise or bend your arms.

I think for you it's just that the cuffs are too big, which allows the sleeves to slip down over the hand more than they should (which is also the problem in the above photo of Prince Charles). This problem is hard to fix if the cuffs are double or French. If they are button, you can just move the buttons over. Simple as that.


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## alebrady (Oct 14, 2004)

Mr. Pipps said:


> It looks like a good suit, for the price.
> 
> The sleeves appear to be creasing rather more than you should expect.
> 
> ...


curious, what do you mean by slimmer - there doesnt look like there is much capacity for getting more slim. or did you mean something along the lines of a sharper sillhoute?


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

rkipperman said:


> For purposes of comparing bespoke to MTM, could MTM have produced the same results?


That's a difficult question to answer as it depends which bespoke you're comparing with which MTM outfit.

From my point of view I've seen Savile Row MTM that looks easily as good as that suit but then it costs more because you have to buy it in London.
You probably wouldn't get as much detail on the inside of the suit with the saddle stitching etc. but from the outside you could easily acheive what you see in the first photo if not better.

If you tried to compare Chinese bespoke with American MTM you'd probably get another result again. If you compared London bespoke with Chinese MTM you'd get another result etc. etc.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

Gong Tao Jai said:


> Montgomery, who is the tailor?


The tailor's name is Xiaochi,he's been in this industry for 27 years.In workmanship,he is maybe the best tailor in China,there is no other one finishes a suit by hand and by oneself.His right hand was disabled,in fact,he made my suit with his left hand.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

a tailor said:


> take a couple of those extra pounds off and you have a very good body fit. shirt sleeves too long but if you move the shirt cuff buttons tighter, and the cuff will come up.
> the front edge at the bottom overlaps, unless you are standing too erect, and not relaxed.
> still there could be a bit more curve on the lower front.
> really dont care for all the fru fru on the inside. fancy linings i understand but all those useless stitches are just for show. imho not very gentlemanly.
> ...


The jacket edges are stitched by hand.
https://imageshack.us

A close pic of the lapel buttonhole

https://imageshack.us

The paper patterns the tailor cut for me
https://imageshack.us

The trousers was made with some techniques the tailor invented himself,he told me,both cutting and tailoring.
The two pockets inside the waist can put many items,mobile,cash,important documents,etc.Besides these two pockets,all pockets on this trousers contain a smaller inside pocket.
https://imageshack.us


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## ad51213 (Nov 2, 2007)

Very good! ! ! !:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:


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## Custos (Nov 5, 2007)

Know this thread's a couple of weeks old, but it got bumped today so I figured a quick comment was fine since I ran into his cuff problem too.

The suit is very handsome, monty. I really like the fabric. There does appear to be a bit too much tension at that top button, but as an earlier poster said, lose some of that weight gained during the making of your suit and you'll be set.

The sleeves aren't too short. It's just that the shirt cuffs are too wide. I think an earlier poster noted this as well. I've had this problem for years. I finally taught myself to sew buttons and just moved my cuff buttons in. It's easy to do and well worth it--you can learn on the internet. Afterwards, your cuffs will fall just above the natural root of your thumb, showing just the right amount, and they'll adjust rather nicely as you gesture with your arms and hands.

Hope your suit brings you years of service and happiness!


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

ad51213 said:


> Very good! ! ! !:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:


thanks mate


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

Custos said:


> Know this thread's a couple of weeks old, but it got bumped today so I figured a quick comment was fine since I ran into his cuff problem too.
> 
> The suit is very handsome, monty. I really like the fabric. There does appear to be a bit too much tension at that top button, but as an earlier poster said, lose some of that weight gained during the making of your suit and you'll be set.
> 
> ...


thanks a lot mate.
the tailor is making me a jacket without darts.
https://imageshack.us


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

https://imageshack.us

adjusted lapel and button stance on this jacket.the tailor used some new cutting and tailoring skills to make it.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

https://imageshack.us/

I like the way the lining is sewn in.

It is a very nice jacket.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

it must be this tailors hallmark the reversed the buttonhole. slick advertising on his part. many tailors will something that will catch the publics eye. 
note the lapel notch is not square. its slightly closed, thats called a fish mouth style.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

the stitches that you point out are by hand. but you are showing the bottom not the edge.
the "edge" is the front edge. that runs from the lapel notch down to the bottom. 
i would trade all that garish inside stitching for a finely blind stitched edge.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

a tailor said:


> it must be this tailors hallmark the reversed the buttonhole. slick advertising on his part. many tailors will something that will catch the publics eye.
> note the lapel notch is not square. its slightly closed, thats called a fish mouth style.


I asked the tailor to do the buttonhole in this way,at the beginning he did it at the reverse direction to the current one,as same as the buttonholes on many OTR jackets.I wanted this jacket to be a little different so asked him to redo it as what we see now.
I didn't know the notch shape has a name.Could you tell me more other styles?


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

a tailor said:


> the stitches that you point out are by hand. but you are showing the bottom not the edge.
> the "edge" is the front edge. that runs from the lapel notch down to the bottom.
> i would trade all that garish inside stitching for a finely blind stitched edge.


Still haven't got what you meant for edge.Could you show me a pic of that?Did you mean the inside part which is connected to the lining with lace and you preferred to see them without the lace but instead of invisible stitches?
I asked the tailor about this part of the jacket,he told me the visible way is more difficult than invisible way on workmanship and is stronger.The inner construction skills he used is different from ordinary.The ordinary working time of a suit is 40 hours,he spent 230 hours on this one,all by himself.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Usually the front, which is sewn to the facing, is sewn once and pressed and then opened up and folded back on itself. A second row of sticthing is sew to keep the edge flat and not bellow out. Most tailored jackets this is done by hand so it can not be seen. This edge stitching by some tailors begins at the vent and goes along the hem edge up the front edge, lapel edge, collar edge, until they are at the end of the other side of the vent. Others begin this edge stitch at the bottom of the facing and go up the front edge around the collar edge to the bottom of the other facing. And a few tailors only sew the front edge once, with an edge stitching. Sometimes a decorative stitch is added, which is sewn about 1/8-1/4 inch from the edge.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

To me the suit looks like a nightmare. The inside is awful looking, the fit is not good with the too tight shoulders and crossing over fronts. It looks like all of the handstitching was for show as some of the important parts are not done by hand.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

iammatt said:


> To me the suit looks like a nightmare. The inside is awful looking, the fit is not good with the too tight shoulders and crossing over fronts. It looks like all of the handstitching was for show as some of the important parts are not done by hand.


"MADE in China" brand takes another beating LOL!


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

clothesboy said:


> <Snip> ...The button seems to be pulling. The sleeves seem to be a little short. The button stance is too high... <snip>


 
Hey, that's what I thought... Maybe reading all those books actually did me some good! 

Can you please tell me: are not the shirtsleeves falling a a little too long? They look like halfway between base-of-thumb and second-thumb-joint than base-of-thumb to me.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

WA said:


> Usually the front, which is sewn to the facing, is sewn once and pressed and then opened up and folded back on itself. A second row of sticthing is sew to keep the edge flat and not bellow out. Most tailored jackets this is done by hand so it can not be seen. This edge stitching by some tailors begins at the vent and goes along the hem edge up the front edge, lapel edge, collar edge, until they are at the end of the other side of the vent. Others begin this edge stitch at the bottom of the facing and go up the front edge around the collar edge to the bottom of the other facing. And a few tailors only sew the front edge once, with an edge stitching. Sometimes a decorative stitch is added, which is sewn about 1/8-1/4 inch from the edge.


Thanks,very detailed explanation


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

iammatt said:


> To me the suit looks like a nightmare. The inside is awful looking, the fit is not good with the too tight shoulders and crossing over fronts. It looks like all of the handstitching was for show as some of the important parts are not done by hand.


Tell us which parts are not hand made and can you show us your suits which are hand made and not nightmares?


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

montgomery said:


> Tell us which parts are not hand made and can you show us your suits which are hand made and not nightmares?


search iammatt's what you are wearing today post all are hand made in Naples!


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

luk-cha said:


> search iammatt's what you are wearing today post all are hand made in Naples!


Won't bother to search.It seems you all tend to judge quality by where they were made instead of craftsmanship.Some guys on this forum are knowledgable and some are ignorant.Is Naples your Mekka?Do you worship shoes hand made in Italy?Most of them are made by Chinese workers in Chinese owned factories in Italy.On costumes,many ranges of Zegna,Armani are made in China,although the Italian play tricks to change the label with an Italian one.If you guys don't like Made-in-China products,try not consuming anything from China,if you can not struggle a month,you'd better give better respect to Chinese products.


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## penguin vic (Sep 20, 2007)

montgomery said:


> Won't bother to search.It seems you all tend to judge quality by where they were made instead of craftsmanship.Some guys on this forum are knowledgable and some are ignorant.Is Naples your Mekka?Do you worship shoes hand made in Italy?Most of them are made by Chinese workers in Chinese owned factories in Italy.On costumes,many ranges of Zegna,Armani are made in China,although the Italian play tricks to change the label with an Italian one.If you guys don't like Made-in-China products,try not consuming anything from China,if you can not struggle a month,you'd better give better respect to Chinese products.


Hey relax, you're jumping the gun a bit. If you're happy with the suit and happy that you got what you paid for that's all that matters.

I personally don't care for the closed quarters, fancy insides, keyhole in the lapel, uneven sleeve buttons and the marketing spin (special extraordinary invented techniques, etc). But that's why I'm not wearing your suit!

No need to get defensive and make sweeping statements that "*you all* tend to judge quality by where they were made".

Take others' responses with a grain of salt and enjoy wearing your suit, made to your taste!

Cheers


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

penguin vic said:


> Hey relax, you're jumping the gun a bit. If you're happy with the suit and happy that you got what you paid for that's all that matters.
> 
> I personally don't care for the closed quarters, fancy insides, keyhole in the lapel, uneven sleeve buttons and the marketing spin (special extraordinary invented techniques, etc). But that's why I'm not wearing your suit!
> 
> ...


Thanks mate,I was quite calm but just not happy to see someone who was ignorant and talking without using brain.
"*you all* tend to judge quality by where they were made". I meant specific people,but you know this word has multiple meanings.
Your life attitude is great,I've learnt something from you,thank you。
Cheers mate.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

montgomery said:


> Tell us which parts are not hand made and can you show us your suits which are hand made and not nightmares?


It really isn't about my suits. You asked for comments and I told you what I thought. The shoulders are extremely unflattering on the first suit, the pant waistband looks badly done and the front quarters are way too closed. On top of that, the saddle stitching on the lining is tacky and the buutonholdes don't look good to me. I would feel the same no matter where it was made. If you don't want comments, don't ask.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

iammatt said:


> It really isn't about my suits. You asked for comments and I told you what I thought. The shoulders are extremely unflattering on the first suit, the pant waistband looks badly done and the front quarters are way too closed. On top of that, the saddle stitching on the lining is tacky and the buutonholdes don't look good to me. I would feel the same no matter where it was made. If you don't want comments, don't ask.


You still didn't tell me which important parts are not hand made,I am very curious to learn that.Most people like the shoulders and I think they fit well,could you explain why you think them extremely bad?What is your standard for bad shoulders?No offence,just wanna know that.What makes you think the pant waistband is not good?I think it is of original craftsmanship and full hand work which can not be found on other pants.On the lace stitches,some people like it,some don't,it's a personal taste problem.Whatever,thanks for your comments and wanna read more.

Now I have an idea that guys on this forum prefer to see costumes of simple and ordinary craftsmanship,novelty and invention are not well accepted, is that true?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

montgomery said:


> You still didn't tell me which important parts are not hand made,I am very curious to learn that.Most people like the shoulders and I think they fit well,could you explain why you think them extremely bad?What is your standard for bad shoulders?No offence,just wanna know that.What makes you think the pant waistband was not good?I think it is of original craftsmanship which can not be found on other pants.On the lace stitches,some people like it,some don't,it's a personal taste problem.
> 
> Now I have an idea that guys on this forum prefer to see costumes of simple and ordinary craftsmanship,novelty and invention are not well accepted, is that true?


Well, the shoulders look too tight. That can be seen by the large amount of horizontal pulling under the sleevehead. They also look like they are wanting to move backwards while your posture wants to go forward. In short, they do not look like they were made for your body.

The pant craftsmanship may be ok, it just irks me when something that should be sewn in by hand, like the waistband, is not while the tailor spends hours on decorative stitching. If I am not seeing correctly, then I apologize.

I do not prefer simple and ordinary craftsmanship. I like little flourishes. I just prefer them when they relate to the overall garment and are not just for show like the lace stitching.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

TO THE MEMBER WHO REPORTED ONE OF THE ABOVE POSTS:

That is not trolling. That is sincere disagreement with the majority of the membership. Sorry.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

It looks a nice suit in many ways.

odd points

I am curious what appear to be two button holes beneath the left in-breast pocket and what they are for?

Are the ticket (s) inside the jacket simialrly oicked out in white - the broan lining works well.

Did you detail the insode pockets you want - two watch pockets is unusual in the trousers (although useful though) his choice or yours.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

iammatt said:


> Well, the shoulders look too tight. That can be seen by the large amount of horizontal pulling under the sleevehead. They also look like they are wanting to move backwards while your posture wants to go forward. In short, they do not look like they were made for your body.
> 
> The pant craftsmanship may be ok, it just irks me when something that should be sewn in by hand, like the waistband, is not while the tailor spends hours on decorative stitching. If I am not seeing correctly, then I apologize.
> 
> I do not prefer simple and ordinary craftsmanship. I like little flourishes. I just prefer them when they relate to the overall garment and are not just for show like the lace stitching.


Maybe the shoulders don't look good on the pic but in fact they fit great and most guys in this thread agreed,the wrinking was caused by sleevehead which is tight,I told the tailor to make very slim sleeves which look really nice from sideview but naturally cause pulling.So I guess you had the wrong idea of bad shoulders which in fact is the problem of tight sleeves.
The waistband is completely hand made with cotton fabric,not as all other pants which use ready-to-use waistband instead.The tailor spent two days to make the waistband and it is functional instead of decorative,I don't see why you said something was not sewn by hand.
I see most men here don't like the lace stitching,mabe it is garish,but the tailor's idea is to exhibit a kind of vintage sewing skill which is not often seen today.

Here is a close pic of the inside of the pant,please point out which parts are not hand made.
https://imageshack.us


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

GBR said:


> It looks a nice suit in many ways.
> 
> odd points
> 
> ...


Thanks
The two button holes,one for a button which hides in the pocket,the other is for pen.
What did you mean by the ticket inside the jacket?
The two inside pockets are not designed specifically for watch,maybe some important documents also,this is his original design,hand made waistband with pockets instead of ready-to-use waistband.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

montgomery said:


> Won't bother to search.It seems you all tend to judge quality by where they were made instead of craftsmanship.Some guys on this forum are knowledgable and some are ignorant.Is Naples your Mekka?Do you worship shoes hand made in Italy?Most of them are made by Chinese workers in Chinese owned factories in Italy.On costumes,many ranges of Zegna,Armani are made in China,although the Italian play tricks to change the label with an Italian one.If you guys don't like Made-in-China products,try not consuming anything from China,if you can not struggle a month,you'd better give better respect to Chinese products.


i never said that they were quality, all i said was if you wanted to know more about iammatt's suits then you can do asearch quite easily! and i just stated where and how they were made!

as for your made in China issue, nobody here has said because you suit was made by chinese hands that is was any less of a good product that anyone else's to me it is a very tipical suit in a tipical chinese style just look at Hu Jin Tao's suits more or less the same as yours in style.

comments wear made on fit! based on what we feel is right or wrong if you dont perticularly enjoy then then dont post pictures.

jiu shi na me jian dan!


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

luk-cha said:


> i never said that they were quality, all i said was if you wanted to know more about iammatt's suits then you can do asearch quite easily! and i just stated where and how they were made!
> 
> as for your made in China issue, nobody here has said because you suit was made by chinese hands that is was any less of a good product that anyone else's to me it is a very tipical suit in a tipical chinese style just look at Hu Jin Tao's suits more or less the same as yours in style.
> 
> ...


agree. my comments had nothing to do with my suits, only with his, and certainly nothing to do with where they are made.

if Montgomery is interested, he can check todays what are you wearing thread.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

luk-cha said:


> i never said that they were quality, all i said was if you wanted to know more about iammatt's suits then you can do asearch quite easily! and i just stated where and how they were made!
> 
> as for your made in China issue, nobody here has said because you suit was made by chinese hands that is was any less of a good product that anyone else's to me it is a very tipical suit in a tipical chinese style just look at Hu Jin Tao's suits more or less the same as yours in style.
> 
> ...


I always want to read some comments made with tailoring knowledge instead of rude judgement any ignorant people can do.
If you believe this suit is of typical Chinese style,please explain with tailoring knowledge which parts or details are of this style and what is the so called Chinese style,if you can not,you'd better consider words before talk.
As your idea is Chinese suits are of Chinese style,do you mean most Italian OTR suits,most English OTR suits,Brooks Brothers' suits are of Chinese style?They are made by Chinese,at least part of their ranges.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

iammatt said:


> agree. my comments had nothing to do with my suits, only with his, and certainly nothing to do with where they are made.
> 
> if Montgomery is interested, he can check todays what are you wearing thread.


Checked and commented,thanks.Your windowcane pant in old posts is a nightmare to me.
Still waiting for you to point out the parts on my trousers which were not made by hand.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

montgomery said:


> I asked the tailor to do the buttonhole in this way,at the beginning he did it at the reverse direction to the current one,as same as the buttonholes on many OTR jackets.I wanted this jacket to be a little different so asked him to redo it as what we see now.
> I didn't know the notch shape has a name.Could you tell me more other styles?


i thought it was the tailors idea about the buttonhole. 
even though i dont care for the fancy inside. i must admit that he put in a great deal of time and loving hand work into it. 
about the lapels. there are a multitude of lapel, collar, and notch shapes out there. there are not enough names to cover all of them. each time a tailor changes a corner or angle or size or shape he says its my lapel design and puts his name on it. but chances a tailor in some other part of the world may have done the same. the nice thing about custom mades is that you too can be a designer. discuss this with your tailor. tell him your idea of a lapel shape you would like. he can make paper lapel shape thats called a "shaper". he uses this when constructing the lapel. that shaper will give you an idea of what the lapel will look like.
generally the shape on your lapel most tailors call a fish mouth. if you look at a fish in profile with its mouth open you can see why. but even this one has many variations.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

montgomery said:


> Checked and commented,thanks.Your windowcane pant in old posts is a nightmare to me.
> Still waiting for you to point out the parts on my trousers which were not made by hand.


I did not see your comment. Perhaps it did not post.

The waistband looks like it was sewn and inserted by machine. The picture is not detailed enough to know for sure. It doesn't really matter as long as they fit. More problematic is the fit of the shoulders and the buttonholes which look very poor to me.


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

Having read the whole thread, I realize this is just a pile-on. Nothing I wrote hasn't already been said by others. Never mind.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

iammatt said:


> I did not see your comment. Perhaps it did not post.
> 
> The waistband looks like it was sewn and inserted by machine. The picture is not detailed enough to know for sure. It doesn't really matter as long as they fit. More problematic is the fit of the shoulders and the buttonholes which look very poor to me.


Thanks,if this pic can not provide enough details,I can't do anything more.If you believe the waistband was sewn and inserted by machine,can I comprehend your idea as it is too good to be done with hands?LOL

I understand you don't like the shoulders but don't understand what's wrong with the buttonholes,you believe they were made by machine again?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

montgomery said:


> Thanks,if this pic can not provide enough details,I can't do anything more.If you believe the waistband was sewn and inserted by machine,can I comprehend your idea as it is too good to be done with hands?LOL
> 
> I understand you don't like the shoulders but don't understand what's wrong with the buttonholes,you believe they were made by machine again?


I am sure the buttonholes are hand sewn if you say they are. They are just shody looking to my eye.

Yours:

Nice:


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

dopey said:


> Your first post seem to indicate a desire for comments on your suit. It has become quite clear that you really just want praise. Your subsequent posts seem to indicate that you also wish your suit to serve as an ambassador for the quality of Chinese tailoring. If that is true, you and your suit have failed. Neither the cut nor the workmanship are attractive. Since you will ask, here are two specific examples - cut - the quarters overlap and the stripes down the front show an inattention to patternmaking. The result is claustrophobic. This is an objective criticism and not, I think, a subjective matter of taste. I also think the overall cut looks both skimpy and stiff (and without appearing lean and trim), but that is personal preference and doesn't really go to quality. Quality - the buttonholes are poorly sewn, and while I am sure they are hand done, they look machine made to me.
> 
> If you and your tailor wish to demonstrate the prowess of Chinese tailoring skill, try to copy the cut of one of iammatt's coats from the Styleforum threads mentioned. You will be hard pressed to find better examples of bespoke at its finest, at least not easily on the web.
> 
> Good luck!


I don't know what makes your impression that I only want praise.I said I want to read comments with good tailoring knowledge instead of rude judgement any ignorant people can do,isn't that reasonable?

I was just asking guys who don't like the suits for reasons so that I can improve my knowledge and improve my clothes,is that a mistake?

Thanks for your detaled comments on the suit itself.

On the overlapped quarters,as I have belly,the waist supression is not big and the middle of the front swells a little which caused the overlapping,will try improving this in my next jacket.If you know what to do on tailoring,please tell me.

The stripes matching on front is perfect,it is a problem of photo angle.

The overall cut is tight,I will need to work out to get off a few extra pounds.

Don't know what's the standard for lean and trim,could you explain a bit?

Is the reason that you don't like the buttonhole is they look like sewn by machines??I am very shocked to hear that.Did you mean you want to see buttonholes which are not well sewn and anyone can distinguish them because the job is not well done?

Won't bother to copy anyother's clothes,but I am interested to see the clothes which cater you guys' taste.I am currently very interested in this issue.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

a tailor said:


> i thought it was the tailors idea about the buttonhole.
> even though i dont care for the fancy inside. i must admit that he put in a great deal of time and loving hand work into it.
> about the lapels. there are a multitude of lapel, collar, and notch shapes out there. there are not enough names to cover all of them. each time a tailor changes a corner or angle or size or shape he says its my lapel design and puts his name on it. but chances a tailor in some other part of the world may have done the same. the nice thing about custom mades is that you too can be a designer. discuss this with your tailor. tell him your idea of a lapel shape you would like. he can make paper lapel shape thats called a "shaper". he uses this when constructing the lapel. that shaper will give you an idea of what the lapel will look like.
> generally the shape on your lapel most tailors call a fish mouth. if you look at a fish in profile with its mouth open you can see why. but even this one has many variations.


Thanks,the buttonhole was my idea,I wanted it to be different,is it a design?
Thanks for your detailed explanation on lapel,this is exactly the kind of knowledge I want.
Could you take a look at the trousers' waistband,I wanna know how it can be thought as machine made?


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

iammatt said:


> I am sure the buttonholes are hand sewn if you say they are. They are just shody looking to my eye.
> 
> Yours:
> 
> Nice:


Did you mean my buttonhole is too tidy and clean to be hand made?Or your idea is the lapel buttonhole should a real hole?
I really don't think your buttonhole is nice,the end is finished roughly.
Can I understand your idea as in your taste,a good buttonhole should not be clean and trim so that anyone can recognize easily it is sewn by hand?In other words,inferior hand work.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

montgomery said:


> Did you mean my buttonhole is too tidy and clean to be hand made?Or your idea is the lapel buttonhole should a real hole?
> I really don't think your buttonhole is nice,the end is finished roughly.
> Can I understand your idea as in your taste,a good buttonhole should not be clean and trim so that anyone can recognize easily it is sewn by hand?In other words,inferior hand work.


OK...


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

montgomery said:


>




Sorry but there is no excuse for a coat that fits this way. I don't care if it's made by last two virgins in Naples but the way the quarters are closed you would definitely get a better fit with an OTR suit.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

montgomery said:


> I always want to read some comments made with tailoring knowledge instead of rude judgement any ignorant people can do.
> If you believe this suit is of typical Chinese style,please explain with tailoring knowledge which parts or details are of this style and what is the so called Chinese style,if you can not,you'd better consider words before talk.
> As your idea is Chinese suits are of Chinese style,do you mean most Italian OTR suits,most English OTR suits,Brooks Brothers' suits are of Chinese style?They are made by Chinese,at least part of their ranges.


if you need to here comments made with real tailoring knowledge then why are you posting here you own tailor should be the only person you need to listen too as you are not interested in people comments here and just think they are being rude!

here are some picture that might help you under stand

















the first picture is from the late 50's, and ok the second on is on a dummy but it still fits it correctly and now compare it to yours!

look at the front balance and have an excessive over lap to them them, the fit across the chest and shoulders your buttonhole's that look like lollypop's and have a OTT comic trait 
to them.

by chinese style look at HJT's, this is what i mean 

















































very closed front quarters, sack like long sleaves - why it is like this?? it is to do with the tradition chinese Tang Zhuang

some more pictures to show you better how most people here prefer their suits to look

























ru guo ni hai bu dong women jiu meiyou ban fa bang dao nin de!


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

luk-cha said:


> if you need to here comments made with real tailoring knowledge then why are you posting here you own tailor should be the only person you need to listen too as you are not interested in people comments here and just think they are being rude!
> 
> here are some picture that might help you under stand
> 
> ...


It seems you really took a time to post pics,thanks.
You think suits in old movie pics are good?They are not fit at all,look at the wrinkles on chest and waist.
Anderson Sheppard's sample jacket is well cut althouth not well canvassed.But it is easy to cut a good looking jacket for standard build model,and much more difficult to cut a fit jacket for people of unstandard build.
I understand why you think Hu's suit is of Chinese style,it's nothing about the cutting,but about body shape.
Chinese people are of different build with Caucasians,how can you expect a suit looking the same on them?Chinese tailors use the same cutting methods as Engslish tailors,the build difference makes them look different.
Mr.Hu has a belly,how can you expect a strong waist suppression for him as he has no obvious waist.If there is no waist supression,the quarters may overlap naturally.
BTW,tangzhuang has nothing to do with suits,I think you meant zhongshanzhuang.
I now understand why you think they are of Chinese style and I'm afraid that is what they should be and inevitable.

I have looked at some clothes that are appreciated here.And I understand what caters most:extra wide shoulders,strong waist surppression,wide spread quarters,simple inside,all visible handwork like sewings should be roughly made so that can easily be recognized instead of being thought of machine made.

Thanks very much for you job.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

Anyone who is reading please comment another suit:
https://imageshack.us


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

I find it very difficult to see anything as the light source is behind you so you have a dark suit standing in shadow.

I think your sleeves are too short, maybe 1/4" - 1/2". I still think the shoulders are too big. There is a lot of folding going on about your upper arm.


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## penguin vic (Sep 20, 2007)

montgomery said:


> It seems you really took a time to post pics,thanks.
> You think suits in old movie pics are good?They are not fit at all,look at the wrinkles on chest and waist.


People move. Suits aren't painted on. I think something's being lost in translation regarding your concept of a "fit" suit and people's concept of a well-fitting suit.



montgomery said:


> Anderson Sheppard's sample jacket is well cut althouth not well canvassed.But it is easy to cut a good looking jacket for standard build model,and much more difficult to cut a fit jacket for people of unstandard build.


Not sure what you mean by A&S coats not being well canvassed or how you can tell from that pic.



montgomery said:


> I understand why you think Hu's suit is of Chinese style,it's nothing about the cutting,but about body shape.
> Chinese people are of different build with Caucasians,how can you expect a suit looking the same on them?Chinese tailors use the same cutting methods as Engslish tailors,the build difference makes them look different.
> Mr.Hu has a belly,how can you expect a strong waist suppression for him as he has no obvious waist.If there is no waist supression,the quarters may overlap naturally.


This means all Chinese and portly folk are doomed to wear ugly (IMO) suits.



montgomery said:


> BTW,tangzhuang has nothing to do with suits,I think you meant zhongshanzhuang.


I'll take your word for it 



montgomery said:


> I now understand why you think they are of Chinese style and I'm afraid that is what they should be and inevitable.
> 
> I have looked at some clothes that are appreciated here.And I understand what caters most:extra wide shoulders,strong waist surppression,wide spread quarters,simple inside,all visible handwork like sewings should be roughly made so that can easily be recognized instead of being thought of machine made.


Not sure what you mean by "extra wide shoulders". I think there's a pretty good consensus on well-fitting (as opposed to extra wide) shoulders. Disagreement perhaps on shoulder 'styles' for want of a better word.

In terms of the forum's preference for "wide spread quarters", you're not prone to exaggeration are you  There is a definite preference against crossed quarters however (ie. it looks bad).

On visible handstitching, in particular the examples posted above, to me it's a case of subtlety. It is curious that the lapel buttonhole is a handstitched keyhole (or "lollipop" as someone called it!) - I thought the keyhole on the lapel is usually a cost saving exercise for RTW manufacturers.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

penguin vic said:


> People move. Suits aren't painted on. I think something's being lost in translation regarding your concept of a "fit" suit and people's concept of a well-fitting suit.
> 
> Well canvassed suits can maintain the shape even people move.Yes,our opinion on fit maybe different and I'm afraid the same standard won't work on different build.
> 
> ...


My dear friend,a keyhole buttonhole is more difficult than a tapered one,no matter made by hand or machine.Ask any hand work tailors or RTW workers,it definitely is not for cost saving but on the other hand instead.

Want to learn your idea on my new posted suit pic.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

clothesboy said:


> I find it very difficult to see anything as the light source is behind you so you have a dark suit standing in shadow.
> 
> I think your sleeves are too short, maybe 1/4" - 1/2". I still think the shoulders are too big. There is a lot of folding going on about your upper arm.


Thanks,how about the quarters?


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

montgomery said:


> Thanks,how about the quarters?





clothesboy said:


> *I find it very difficult to see anything as the light source is behind you so you have a dark suit standing in shadow.*
> 
> I think your sleeves are too short, maybe 1/4" - 1/2". I still think the shoulders are too big. There is a lot of folding going on about your upper arm.


:icon_smile:


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## penguin vic (Sep 20, 2007)

montgomery said:


> My dear friend,a keyhole buttonhole is more difficult than a tapered one,no matter made by hand or machine.Ask any hand work tailors or RTW workers,it definitely is not for cost saving but on the other hand instead.


Wow, now I know that the manufacturers of my cheap suits have really splashed out on the buttonhole on their lapels ... 

So it's more "difficult" but what's it doing on the lapel? What exactly are you buttoning your lapel to?

Personal preference, sure, but the difficulty explanation is silly. It's probably pretty darn difficult having a suit made in the dark with one hand tied behind your back. I'll have to get my tailor to make my next suit that way - then I'll know it is truly a top quality suit with the highest degree of difficulty.



> Want to learn your idea on my new posted suit pic.


The lighting doesn't really help. It appears to be a touch too wide in the shoulders (could be the angle) and the sleeves do seem slightly short. Having said that and although the pic's a bit dark, it looks to fit better than the one you posted earlier. The two photos are taken at very different angles however.


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

penguin vic said:


> Wow, now I know that the manufacturers of my cheap suits have really splashed out on the buttonhole on their lapels ...
> 
> So it's more "difficult" but what's it doing on the lapel? What exactly are you buttoning your lapel to?
> 
> ...


Ask your tailor to sew a tapered buttonhole and a keyhole one,watch him or you can try sewing a little yourself(I tried),you'll find a keyhole one is more difficult.The round end is the difficulty.

As you always have a tapered buttonhole on your lapel,do you button it?

Yes the shoulders are extra wide as I mentioned.Now I know it is a custom on many tailored jackets .

Thanks.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

montgomery said:


> Thanks
> The two button holes,one for a button which hides in the pocket,the other is for pen.
> What did you mean by the ticket inside the jacket?
> The two inside pockets are not designed specifically for watch,maybe some important documents also,this is his original design,hand made waistband with pockets instead of ready-to-use waistband.


This is an unusual way to fasten an inside breast pocket but thought proving for my next suit. The pen pocket would seem a bit small I suspect - I prefer the left one about 2 1/2" wide.

The ticket pocket inside is the small one on the lower left facing of the lining and sometimes on the right hand side as well. Did he provide these or you seek one or two?

The second waist band pocket I like - the benefits of a hand made one. Presumably he put in two back pockets?


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## montgomery (Jul 21, 2007)

GBR said:


> This is an unusual way to fasten an inside breast pocket but thought proving for my next suit. The pen pocket would seem a bit small I suspect - I prefer the left one about 2 1/2" wide.
> 
> The ticket pocket inside is the small one on the lower left facing of the lining and sometimes on the right hand side as well. Did he provide these or you seek one or two?
> 
> The second waist band pocket I like - the benefits of a hand made one. Presumably he put in two back pockets?


The pen pocket is big enough for one pen.

The tailor provided the ticket pocket.

Yes two back pockets,one with button,one without.

Thanks.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

montgomery said:


> It seems you really took a time to post pics,thanks.
> You think suits in old movie pics are good?They are not fit at all,look at the wrinkles on chest and waist.
> Anderson Sheppard's sample jacket is well cut althouth not well canvassed.But it is easy to cut a good looking jacket for standard build model,and much more difficult to cut a fit jacket for people of unstandard build.
> I understand why you think Hu's suit is of Chinese style,it's nothing about the cutting,but about body shape.
> ...


i think you have missed the point the pic's from the old movie are from me using the screen print fuction so they will capture wrinkles and creases as the actor is moving.

i put the A&S picture there as it is a non moving pic of a suit and for me it is a good example of what yours should look like in a non-moving pose - to make a comment on the construction is just needless

just because HJT has a belly it does not mean that he has to wear a suit that make him look more portly and stout then he already is he be better off with a rice sack dyed ink blue! this is just the way chinese people wear/ like to wear the clothes long and loose

as for you proclain that the chinese use the same cutting methods and SR or IT this is pretty standard i am sure they use sissors and even in the big factories lasars and and other wonderful gagets i dont think anyone here assumed that chinese tailor use chopsticks and choppers to cut clothing!


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