# Off Savile Row Tailors



## Henry (May 4, 2006)

As I mentioned in my other thread, here is the list of tailors who interested me when browsing the new suit I am going to buy. I'm afraid the list is fitted around my budget - Â£600-900 - so the list is somewhat ephemeral, including full bespoke suits and their MTM counterparts and, indeed, some Savile Row tailors. I've put in all prices for any cost / quality assessment which might take place.

I've done the empirical work, but I've no idea about the quality of these places - so if you could help fill in the blanks, that would be great. I've included websites and relevant Andy discussions too. Here we go:

Richard Anderson
https://www.richardandersonltd.com/index.html
Bespoke: Â£2969

Kilgour
https://www.8savilerow.com/
Full bespoke: Â£2700
Entry level bespoke: ~Â£1500

Gieves and Hawkes
www.gievesandhawkes.com
Bespoke: Â£2600
MTM: Â£695

Ede and Ravenscroft

Bespoke: Â£2300
MTM: Â£750

James & James / Davies & Son

Bespoke: Â£2200
MTM: Â£750
https://www.bownsbespoke.com/jamesandjames.htm

Timothy Everest

Bespoke: Â£1985

Jasper Littman

Bespoke: Â£1895
MTM: Â£595

Mark Powell

Bespoke: Â£1600

John Pearse

Â£1500

Redwood & Feller
www.redwoodandfeller.co.uk/
Bespoke: Â£1400
MTM: Â£600

Redmayne

Bespoke: Â£1400
MTM: Â£650

GD Goldings
https://www.goldings.co.uk/
Bespoke: Â£985

Eddie and Chris Kerr

Bespoke: Â£950

Whitcomb & Shaftesbury
https://whitcombandshaftesbury.com/
Bespoke: Â£1500 (Â£750 on offer)
Discussion:

Tony Lutwyche
https://www.lutwyche.co.uk/
Bespoke: Â£900

Higgins and Brown
https://www.higginsandbrown.co.uk/Home.htm/
Bespoke: Â£399

Other:

Anthony J Hewitt

Norton & Sons
https://www.nortonandsons.co.uk/tailoring.html

Lukeâ€™s Tailors

Franco Santoro
39 Carnaby St, London, W1F 7DT (02074378440)

Edit: added Tony Lutwyche's confirmed price (Â£900)


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Given your listing and the number of Savile Row firms it includes, I'm not quite sure why this thread is titled "Off Savile Row Tailors." Regardless, this very lengthy discussion should be of some relevance regarding many of the firms which you have referenced:


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Yes, I understand that the thread title is a bit misleading.

My purpose was really to compare the merits of MTM offerings from bona fide Savile Roaw tailors and the true bespoke suits by lesser known tailors - which hopefully come in at a comparable price. Apologies for the confusion.

I've browsed the thread you read extensively, and due to the long and slightly random nature of its progression, what it has in individual assessment, it is somewhat lacking in comparative evaluation. I was hoping this might provide a more direct approach to this!

Sorry if this really is too much a rehashing of an old topic!


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Henry_
> I've browsed the thread you read extensively, and due to the long and slightly random nature of its progression, what it has in individual assessment, it is somewhat lacking in comparative evaluation.


Indeed. It was my hope that discussion would not turn into "which is best" debate and, thankfully, it has not. A consequence of that, however, is that it really isn't comparative...as you suggest. So I certainly understand the rationale behind your posting.


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

I rather get the feeling I've annoyed you in some way - I hope this isn't the case and, if it is, I apologise - it was done quite unintentionally!

I understand that something as personal as tailoring is hard to rank in so empirical a way as you imply - I wasn't expecting anyone to do so. However, there is no doubt that some tailors are better than others. All I wish to establish is how the respective tailors stack up in a general way - which 'league' they are in, if you will. Their placings within this league aren't what I'm looking for! Particularly, I want to know how the MTM offerings stack up against the bespoke suits of 'lesser' tailors - even if the latter are slightly more expensive.

Again, I apologise if I've trodden on any toes!


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Henry_
> 
> I rather get the feeling I've annoyed you in some way - I hope this isn't the case and, if it is, I apologise - it was done quite unintentionally!
> 
> ...


Oh no!! You haven't offended me at all. Quite the contrary. The whole point of Fora such as this is for individuals to share questions, concerns, experiences and expertise. While I personally tire of threads as to the "best" tailor or the "best" shoe, I believe that both evaluative and comparative information is exceptionally useful and appropriate. I am terribly sorry if I gave you a different impression. That was certainly not my intent.


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Oh good!

No, I'm not interested in who's 'best' - basically I want to know if I should go MTM or bespoke and, if bespoke, who's providing the genuine article (as opposed to CTM) and who's not. Beyond that, if anyone has any insight into the tailors themselves, I'm all ears. I'm particularly interested in their house styles and approach to cutting - I hear some off-Row tailors (and indeed some SR tailors too) can be slightly prickly about how they cut their suits...


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

Henry,

I completely understand what you're trying to do here.
You need some feedback before you shell out a lot of money and then wonder if you could have done better elsewhere.
I can help you to a small extent but only by telling you what I have heard or experienced of the tailors you mentioned.

So here is my list.
I'm simply stating whether I've heard /experienced good or bad things about them as I don't want to get in trouble for slating companies etc.
I've left many of them out because I know nothing useful about them.

Richard Anderson: Good
Kilgour: Good
Jasper Littman: Good
GD Goldings: No comment
Whitcomb & Shaftesbury: No comment
Tony Lutwyche: No Comment
Franco Santoro: Good

Hope that helps.


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Three more possibilities for your list: Jonathan Quearney, Souster & Hicks, Benson & Clegg. I'm not saying they are the same or even similar but they are at the value end of the bespoke / MTM arena.


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## Monty_Monty (Apr 18, 2006)

How about these blokes:

Andy Preston tailoring
Addison Steele
Dres2Kill
FeatherstoneHaugh

Ive not seen anything on AA about any of these guys. Any input would be useful, as I am seriously considering buying a suit from Andy Preston, but dont know much about how he compares to similar priced MTM.

A guy in my office just had a suit made by King & Allen (cost him Â£299), which he is not particularly happy with, and he was only given a choice of 6 cloths!


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## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

And of course the classic:




Has anybody worked with them?


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## TE Hesketh (Nov 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by RichardS_
> 
> And of course the classic:
> 
> Has anybody worked with them?


I believe this is Tony Lutwyche, who is currently re-launching Cheshire Clothing as Cheshire Bespoke. 
Bonhamesques' "no comment" would appear to be a negative assessment. I would also be interested to know if this is from personal experience and what any problems were, mainly because I have some suits from Cheshire Clothing and would be interested as an indication of what clothing from the new company be like.

Regards

Rob


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Not sure 'no comment' is necessarily a negative opinion on Lutwyche - I'd be interested to here if his suits live up to his marketing though.

Incidentally, I went into Ede's today (spending the day in Oxford, Holdfast) and had a really nice chat with their tailor. Contrary to my initial impression, and more in keeping with your experience, the chap was extremely friendly. He accepted that I didn't want to start the process today - I've got a busy month ahead - but was happy to give me the inside track on their personal tailoring service. The process takes about 7 weeks, costs from Â£695 and seems very satisfactory. The price included their standard fabric, from a cursory glance and touch, seemed perfect for my needs.

He asked what kind of suit I wanted and immediately recognised the kind of cut I was going for, and was keen to extrapolate (correctly) what else I would likely choose based on my brief outline. He came across as an altogether well informed and helpful person, I think I may well be going with them. He even suggested a student discount, though I had to grudgingly admit I'd gone down the year before. He said he might still be able to sort something out, which was very welcome!

I understand that the salesman is a different beast to the tailor, and there is no correlation of quality between the two, but I was definitely impressed.


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## Vik (Mar 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Bonhamesque_
> 
> Henry,
> 
> ...


Goldings make an awful lot of military uniforms and the like - saw one of there bespoke suits the other day...looked very stiff, although my pal did say that this was the aim...

Vik


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## Siegfried (Nov 11, 2004)

Good day,
I refer you to my post on my experience with the made to measure service at George Goddard, Ltd.:

https://www.goddards-tailoring.co.uk/
I wonder if other Ask Andy members have utilized their excellent service?
Best regards,
Siegfried


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## Leon (Apr 16, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Monty_Monty_
> 
> How about these blokes:
> 
> ...


I recently read the press about andy preston tailoring.

Dress 2 Kill have a shop/ barbers in London now

https://www.dress2kill.com/

I don't see much to differentiate these made to measure tailors. I don't like the double buttonholes on the lapels on the Andy Preston suits.
I have no direct experience.
Leon

About Eden's penchant for double-breasted waistcoats: 
"Always had doubts about that. So did my tailor." 
Bill Deedes


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Monty_Monty_
> 
> How about these blokes:
> 
> ...


People like Dress 2 Kill, Featherstone Haugh, King & Allen etc. are bottom-end MTM outfits that are actually below Henry's price range.
Personally I believe to get best value for money you should go to a place where your budget will only just get you in on the ground floor.
Don't forget that most of what you're paying for with a bespoke / MTM suit is the construction, so it's better to have a beautifully cut and well constructed suit in an ordinary fabric than a badly made suit in a super-silky fabric.
Personally I believe Henry is better off sticking to his list than going down market to the likes of Dress2Kill etc.

"The Americans have their soul singers and it's fair to say that we English have our soul singers" Peter Cook


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Henry_
> 
> Not sure 'no comment' is necessarily a negative opinion on Lutwyche - I'd be interested to here if his suits live up to his marketing though.


It _was_ supposed to be a negative comment about Lutwyche, that was the whole point.
All the tailors whom I've written 'no comment' next to are tailors that I've heard / experienced negative things about. In his case, Tony Lutwyche calls his company 'Lutwyche Bespoke' but in fact does not offer fully bespoke garments, only MTM, and as we all know that is a blatant abuse of the word bespoke.

And as for Andy Preston, would you buy a suit from this man? 

Seriously though, I know nothing about him.
Having browsed his site, one thing does put me off though. This necessity for gimmicks like brightly coloured button holes and all the other bells & whistles.
In my opinion, if a suit has a flattering and distinctive cut (I've no idea if his do) then you don't need to 'advertise' it with all these silly gimmicks. It smacks of desperation to me.
It's as if he's begging your office colleagues to say 'Wow! look at those buttonholes! Where did you get that suit?'

"The Americans have their soul singers and it's fair to say that we English have our soul singers" Peter Cook


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## byoloye (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Monty_Monty_
> 
> How about these blokes:
> 
> ...


I have personal experience with Addison Steele. They made me a 3-piece grey suit for my wedding. Jacket was a 2 button SB. Waist-coat had lapels. They are travelling tailors. Someone measures you up, and the suit probably gets made up in Leeds.

The first guy who took the order, got it so badly wrong. The suits had to be remade. I had to take a picture of what I wanted to the next person. Once the error was corrected, it has now turned out to be one of my nicest suits.

If you do use Addison Steele, make sure you communicate your ideas thoroughly. They struck me as another one of these new "tailoring" firms that have identified the British male's resurgent interest in tailored clothing as a business strategy, as opposed to bringing something new and fresh to the market.

My suit was nice though, although a bit expensive for what it was.

As for Dress2Kill, I wonder how much quality you could possibly get at those prices.

For Â£600 - Â£900, you can go bespoke. Martin Thorp, the cutter at Roderick Charles (Chancery Lane branch) does a good job.

Segun Adelaja will do you a nice suit at round about the Â£700 to Â£900 mark.

Tom Baker, based in Soho apparently does a good job in that price range, but I have no personal experience of his work.

Regards,
Bolaji


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

I recommend George's Tailor in Haringey, North London highly. Made my first bespoke experience a uniformly positive one, and a suit and two pairs of pants in J.J. Minnis fabic cost just 650 BP. See my review below:





-----------------------------------
"It is an old trick. The playgoer who does not like dirty plays is denounced as a prude; the music-lover who resents cacophony is told he is a pedant; and in all these matters the final crushing blow administered to the man of discrimination is the ascription to him of a hidebound prejudice against things that are new because they are new." -Royal Cortissoz


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## Monty_Monty (Apr 18, 2006)

Thanks for the responses guys.

Bonhamesque - I hear what you're saying about APT. I have to admit that the images in his gallery didnt inspire me with confidence, especially this one:








https://www.andyprestontailoring.com/img/gal_details_001big.jpg









I like the idea of originality, but is some bloke with a pony tail is trying to persuade me to do it, then it is hardly original is it.
Just a way of branding his suits i suppose.

Bolaji - Thanks for the info on AddisonS. Glad to hear that they sorted out your order in the end.


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## Monty_Monty (Apr 18, 2006)

Thanks for the responses guys.

Bonhamesque - I hear what you're saying about APT. I have to admit that the images in his gallery didnt inspire me with confidence, especially this one:



I like the idea of originality, but is some bloke with a pony tail is trying to persuade me to do it, then it is hardly original is it.
Just a way of branding his suits i suppose.

Bolaji - Thanks for the info on AddisonS. Glad to hear that they sorted out your order in the end.


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Monty_Monty_
> I like the idea of originality, but is some bloke with a pony tail is trying to persuade me to do it, then it is hardly original is it.
> 
> Exactly.
> ...


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

I have a couple of Boateng's less OTT RTW suits (a bit of colour under the collar and within the cuff area and a very bright lining). They are good value in the sale as long as you are not too weighty but some of his suits are for show business people only.

BTW Scabal do MTM and I am very happy with the one I have from them.


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

I have to say, it's a real eye-opener to see how many of these firms which market themselves as bespoke are anything but. There's a definite correlation between those with glossy websites and those who are attempting this trick. Perhaps harsh, but certainly the most reasonable true bespoke outfitters are very internet unfriendly.

I think I'm pretty set on MTM now. I'm a pretty easy fit and, frankly, if it's a little disappointing I can make forays into the world of bespoke later.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

I always thought that "off row" refers to bespoke establishments that dont have a Savile Row address. Meyer & Mortimer on Sackville Street comes to mind.


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Probably right - this thread isn't particularly true to its title, I must admit.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Henry_
> Incidentally, I went into Ede's today (spending the day in Oxford, Holdfast) and had a really nice chat with their tailor. Contrary to my initial impression, and more in keeping with your experience, the chap was extremely friendly. He accepted that I didn't want to start the process today - I've got a busy month ahead - but was happy to give me the inside track on their personal tailoring service. The process takes about 7 weeks, costs from Â£695 and seems very satisfactory. The price included their standard fabric, from a cursory glance and touch, seemed perfect for my needs.
> 
> He asked what kind of suit I wanted and immediately recognised the kind of cut I was going for, and was keen to extrapolate (correctly) what else I would likely choose based on my brief outline. He came across as an altogether well informed and helpful person, I think I may well be going with them. He even suggested a student discount, though I had to grudgingly admit I'd gone down the year before. He said he might still be able to sort something out, which was very welcome!
> ...


As I wrote elsewhere, I'm glad you found this visit much more pleasant than the last one. If you do go down this route, that would be at least 3 people I know who've bought MTM from Ede after I mentioned them. I should be getting commission... or at least a discount!

I don't think I could pass for a student discount anymore unfortunately... even a "might be able to sort something out" student discount!


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

I assume it must be same guy - I've seen him a lot in there. Grey thinning hair, quite slight, glasses, quiet but pleasantly fawning, always calling one 'sir'... Good for myself esteem as a young-ish buyer. Not many are that kind. Reminds me of good Custodians in my college at Oxford! I should mention you, he'd be very impressed. Do you know where the suit is tailored? I know they have a tailor there - a genial Italian chap - but assume it isn't all done there?

By the way, agreed on that pony tailed goon - not letting him near my lapels!


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Literide_
> 
> I always thought that "off row" refers to bespoke establishments that dont have a Savile Row address. Meyer & Mortimer on Sackville Street comes to mind.


Not exactly. While Savile Row is a street, it is also a broader area and the term "Savile Row tailor" generally includes not only those who reside on the Row itself but those bespoke tailors in nearby Sackville, Cork, Mount, St. George, Maddox, Dering, Old Burlington, Prince's, Conduit and Stafford streets. Off the Row generally refers to those bespoke tailors beyond Picadilly and Regent Street. It's a bit like Broadway and Off-Broadway theatres...referring not only to a particular location but also connoting something about the enterprise itself.


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## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

Henry writes about the price of Richard Anderson bespoke ...


> quote:Bespoke: Â£2969


 I'm not exactly sure what you are pricing -- and that could make a big difference -- but below is a cut and paste from a late 2004 e-mail from Brian Lishak of Richard Anderson ...


> quote:Average price of sports coat is Â£1764, 2 piece suit Â£2293, trousers Â£529.


Of course that was 2004 ... and this is 2006 ... but still, some might find the information useful."I used to think myself Dorian Gray ... but lately, Dorian Graying seems more fitting." -- Scott


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

I got that price a couple of days ago by email from a chap there called Clive Gilkes; he said it was average for a two piece suit. Perhaps inflation has set in. Also, that includes VAT.


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## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

Henry said:


> I got that price a couple of days ago by email from a chap there called Clive Gilkes; he said it was average for a two piece suit. Perhaps inflation has set in. Also, that includes VAT.


Inflation! That's a frightening thought ... expecially on top of the value of the dollar to the pound. But if Clive says it ... he would know.

I'm having dinner with Richard's house manager, Brian Lishak, on Thursday ... I'll verify.

Scott


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Cool - I had to read it several times to confirm I hadn't got latent dyslexia re the 6s and 9s! Very glad to be proven wrong, under the circumstances... Perhaps that's what having a good reputation will do for you.


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## MRX (May 20, 2006)

I have tried Couch and Hoskin, the city tailors on Cheapside. They do a very good bespoke suit for £1,400. I was very pleased with the outcome. It's a reasonably soft, structured fit. They were flexible with my request for softer shoulders and a myriad of strengthened pockets.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

The Autumn 2007 edition of Savile Row Style Magazine has an interesting feature on off-Row tailors that may be of interest and relevance.


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## Haider (Sep 18, 2008)

Curator said:


> I recommend George's Tailor in Haringey, North London highly. Made my first bespoke experience a uniformly positive one, and a suit and two pairs of pants in J.J. Minnis fabic cost just 650 BP. See my review below:
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothesold.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16755
> 
> ...


Hi,

I elected to go with George's Tailors in Haringey on the evidence of a recommendation. George is very welcoming tailor and shares the benefit of his experience i.e. English Pleats Vs Italian pleats Vs flat front and how they can be used to for different silhouettes and their drawbacks. I have been for the two fittings as well as the initial measurements. I went for a Holland and Sherry (Legend swatch book) 140S wool in a shade of blue. I was quoted £1000. As it's said the proof of the pudding's in the eating as I shall post photos of the suit in due course.

Thanks 
Haider

PS 
You don't get the luxurios shopping experience, that's not what I'm after, it's a small workshop with a changing room and crafts-men/woman at work.


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## RMiller (Dec 11, 2009)

Monty_Monty said:


> How about these blokes:
> 
> Andy Preston tailoring
> Addison Steele
> ...


I got tempted by Dress2Kill's so called "bespoke" offering. Worst mistake I made when it comes to choosing a tailor. Even though I went for one of the higher end fabrics the end product is worse than an average off the peg suit. At £700 I feel ripped off as I could easily have purchased 2 good off the peg suits and had those adjusted for a much better result.

There is not much of a bespoke experience about this bunch...first they try to flog you one of their cheaper fabrics which they have a "great deal" on. The salesman at the front is full of buzzwords and sales pitches which is fine but the moment you go into detail about construction and technicalities of a suit he gives the "don't ask that sort of question around here mate" look.

Regrettably I still placed an order due to the fact they had a fabric I liked.

Once the suit was delivered I realised this is a shop front. For example I asked them how they can claim to be bespoke and deliver a fused jacket...you can imagine their answer.

Beware of this Dress2kill gimmick. Plenty of places to get better suits at better prices is my advice.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Lutwyche Is rather cheeky using" Bespoke" after his savaging of Richard and Sean for bending the rules a bit with there made in England labels.

I have met him a few times and I have to say that for an ex army officer and an owner of a tailoring house his shoes could do with a bit more polish.

Richard Anderson is my favourate.



Bonhamesque said:


> It _was_ supposed to be a negative comment about Lutwyche, that was the whole point.
> All the tailors whom I've written 'no comment' next to are tailors that I've heard / experienced negative things about. In his case, Tony Lutwyche calls his company 'Lutwyche Bespoke' but in fact does not offer fully bespoke garments, only MTM, and as we all know that is a blatant abuse of the word bespoke.
> 
> And as for Andy Preston, would you buy a suit from this man?
> ...


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## whistle_blower71 (May 26, 2006)

David Reeves said:


> Lutwyche Is rather cheeky using" Bespoke" after his savaging of Richard and Sean for bending the rules a bit with there made in England labels.
> 
> I have met him a few times and I have to say that for an ex army officer and an owner of a tailoring house his shoes could do with a bit more polish.
> 
> Richard Anderson is my favourate.


RJ did not bend the rules regarding Made in England labels. They acted within the rules but the rules changed.

*W_B*


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

whistle_blower71 said:


> RJ did not bend the rules regarding Made in England labels. They acted within the rules but the rules changed.
> 
> *W_B*


At the very best they acted in bad faith.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

RJman said:


> At the very best they acted in bad faith.


Much like calling an MTM company Bespoke in my opinion.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Should Toby Norman be on the list?


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## caf flow (Oct 11, 2009)

heard great things about this chap
going to try him out soon
https://www.threadneedlemantailors.co.uk/


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