# Men's Wearhouse Joseph Abboud MtM Review



## crocto (Dec 12, 2012)

After doing some searching, research, asking questions, and generally looking around the internet and NYC I decided to go with a made-to-measure suit from Men's Wearhouse. I literally just picked up the suit today from the Men's Wearhouse tailors. I'll describe the process a bit (for me at least), review the suit, and provide some pictures. Big thanks to TheBarbaron for answering some of my questions. Basically, I picked MW for three reasons 1. proximity 2. price 3. made in America (at least that's the claim).

The process for me was easy. I saw this really nice looking light grey sharkskin suit by JA at MW. I tried the 38S and it was too tight. The 40S was too large. I know I can tailor it but I decide to give the MtM stuff a shot. They had me put back on the 38S jacket and I told them how I wanted it to fit. Two sales guys helped me one was doing his first suit and the dude assisting him is/was the #2 seller of MtM suits for all the MW stores. Same deal with the pants. I put them on they measured me and I told them how I wanted it to fit and they adjusted it accordingly.

After all that they said which fit do you want: Modern (this is hard to describe it's not really modern but it's not really JAB monster box cut either), Slim (what I wanted), or Extreme Slim (way too tight). The issue that I had was the jacket/pants model the MW sales guys wrote down was for the Modern even though I wanted the Slim. This happened because, partly my fault and partly theirs, when they measured me we used the Modern fit suit for my measurements instead of the Slim (more on this in a bit).

After taking my measurements I picked out the fabric. There are 3 tiers I picked tier 1 for $595. You then pick from a lot of options including lining (for body and sleeves), functional sleeve buttons, 2 or 3 button, single or double breasted, notch or peak lapel, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Some of the things were free (slanted pockets) but some were extra (between $10 and $50).

Here's how my price broke down: tier 1 fabric $595, 2 button, notch lapel, center vent, slanted pockets, functional sleeve buttons (+$50), ticket pocket (+$10), pick stitching (+$10), and blue gingham lining for body and sleeves. The total for me came to $665 versus $495. This also included alterations once it got to the store. Also included were a very nice suit bag and a terrible plastic hanger. They have you pay half when you order and half when the suit shows up.

I was quoted that it would take about 21 days to get to the store. There were a few holidays in-between but I did get a call that it had come in about 21 days later. I tried the suit on and the pants needed to be hemmed. Also, because of the fact that the MW sales guys used the Modern fit codes the pants needed to be taper, waist brought in, and thighs slimmed. It only took them one day to do all that and there was no extra charge.

The fabric is really nice. I was shocked at just how, well, different it felt! I guess because it wasn't stuffed onto a rack, pawed at by many hands, or generally abused by being an OTR suit. It honestly felt like going from my old '92 station wagon to a car that was built this century. I would say the quality of the fabric is up there with a Brooks Brothers suit. The stitching on the on lining looks good and secure. The buttons are securely fasten and are of a decent quality. The lining is smooth and well attached to the jacket.

Honestly, for the price I think it's a pretty good suit. My only issue was the pants not being the right cut and the fact that I really couldn't change the jacket buttoning position (about an inch down would be perfect). Since I spent over $500 and am a member of their rewards program I'll get $50 off my next purchase so that's like getting working buttons for free. Some pictures below.


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## Spex (Nov 25, 2012)

Informative review. I agree that a slightly lower button stance would look better. Are you able to specify features such as lapel width, gorge height or shoulder padding amount? Also does Tier 1 fabric mean the low end or high end. I'm assuming this is 1/2 canvassed? Cheers.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

To be honest, I think the button stance is more than a little off. I don't think it's within 2-3' of your natural waist, and in large part responsible for the unusual creasing through the body of the jacket. I'd say the jacket is on the short side, but that may be your preference. Same goes for the sleeves, but then again maybe it's that the angle of the sleeve opening doesn't match up with the shirt cuff.


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## alphadelta (Oct 2, 2007)

Is the jacket fused or floating canvas? It looks about 1 - 2" too short. The sleeves look pretty big, both at the sleeve head and at the cuffs.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Jacket body is 2" to short for my taste, the ticket pocket I could do without. But I would not want today's "modern or slim".


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## crocto (Dec 12, 2012)

I'll try to answer the questions as best as I can.

Spex
1. The suit is half-canvassed.
2. Label width, button height, gorge height, and padding are all non-adjustable. It is what it is. The shoulder padding is quite minimal.

Medhat
Sadly, I can't really adjust the button stance. Since it's MtM they said I can only change so much. The buttoning point is actually near my natural waist so it's in the correct position. I'm just extremely short 5' 3" so anything near my natural waist makes me look odd. And yes I like my jackets on the shorter side. Most short jackets are still too long for me again because I'm quite short.

Alphadelta
The sleeves aren't as big as they look. It's the Modern fit so the sleeves and arms are a bit wider but not a deal breaker. The Slim is prefect and the Extreme Slim is much too tight.

Mhdena
Again I like the short jackets. I'm happy with the length on this because it's actually a short jacket! Again, the Modern fit isn't really that "modern" much more traditional. The two slim fits wouldn't be your cup of tea than. I also really like ticket pockets. You can get it without and save yourself $10.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Let the waist out a bit.


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## Searching_Best_Fit (Feb 11, 2015)

*It is a good fit, after all*



crocto said:


>


Actually, I think the fit is pretty good. The jacket length hits the right points: it covers the rear (it seems) and it kind of divide the height from neck down in half. Anything longer, it will make the legs look shorter; any shorter, it will not cover the rear. Given the proportion, this length is right on target.

Furthermore, given your body type and the size on the waist, I would also agree on this modern fit for your sleeves and pants. Going slim on sleeves and legs may not suit you because it may project a cartoon-ish figure (round body with match-sticks arms and legs). You need something to balance your body size. You might, if you really want, slim down the sleeve cuff by 1/2" to 1" for wearing button-cuff shirt. However, this can be remedied by wearing French Cuff shirt to support the cuff. If you do intend to wear FC shirt with this suit, the cuff opening may not be an issue.

My only pick on the fit would be the bottom button is opened a bit further, but that is the style nowadays :-|.

Hi Crocto, would you mind showing the close-up pictures top and underneath the lapel? Given that this is a half-canvas suit with pick stitching, I would like to see the handy work done by JA on the lapel.

Cheers.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Jovan said:


> Let the waist out a bit.


Agreed. The fabric is pulling, and the button is hanging on for dear life.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

crocto said:


> Medhat
> Sadly, I can't really adjust the button stance. Since it's MtM they said I can only change so much. The buttoning point is actually near my natural waist so it's in the correct position. I'm just extremely short 5' 3" so anything near my natural waist makes me look odd. And yes I like my jackets on the shorter side. Most short jackets are still too long for me again because I'm quite short.


I didn't realize you were of "that" height, which in that case makes some of the adjustments you've made more understandable. The overall fit (jacket length, etc...) and proportions in this case actually work really well for you. Agree with the comments to let the jacket out a little. I'm still a little bugged by the button stance, for me it would be reason enough to look elsewhere for my next suit, even if it is at your natural waist, it "looks" like it should be lower. Also, given your height, I'd argue against the ticket pocket, as eliminating any additional horizontal elements on the jacket will add the appearance of length. But I think the price makes it a pretty attractive MTM proposition.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

I hate to point this out, but at 5'3", no one will be looking at him horizontally. The odd button stance might not be as noticeable when seen from above. Perspective.


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## crocto (Dec 12, 2012)

Yeah being this short _sucks_. Most short jackets are too long. The only ones I've found that really do a good job of fitting my diminutive body are Charles Tyrwhitt Ted and Banana Republic. The button position is OK. My Banana Republic suits have a buttoning position that's probably about an inch or so lower and it's spot on. Here's a view of them. The MW guys said basically because it's MtM and not full custom there isn't much I could do with that.

I did some shopping around. Even went into NYC. Went to my.suit, Black Lapel, and one other whose name escapes me. I would have gone with Black Lapel except for two reasons: the cost ($20 for train + $10 for parking + time) of getting into NYC and the suits aren't made in the U.S. Jovan has an excellent Black Lapel suit but I figured if I was going to spend $500+ on something it might as well be made here.

I'll get some pictures of the pick stitching and fictional button sleeves tonight.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

crocto said:


> fictional button sleeves


Prose or verse?


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## Searching_Best_Fit (Feb 11, 2015)

Speaking of ticket pocket, I think that Flusser mentioned that if you want to add more heft to your waist, add a ticket pocket. On the other hand, if you do not want people to look at your waist, skip it. That being said, men sometimes needs some change from time to time, right?

Just to clarify, I would like to see the back of the lapel. Thanks in advance. :biggrin:


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

The slanted pockets help a bit though.


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## 123abc (Oct 3, 2014)

IMO, jacket length is spot on for your body, but all sorts of opinions on what is "right" for length. I agree with whoever says the sleeves just look big somehow - not sure if it's all the way or just at opening. Shoulders look VG I think. I'd agree it's a tad bit tight at that top button, even if the style is tighter, it doesn't work on this suit on you.


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## AscotWithShortSleeves (Apr 12, 2009)

Crocto: I think it's a nice suit but (as I see others have noted) just needs to be let out ever so slightly in the middle.

I love that lining. I would be tempted to "accidentally" flash that "custom made" label all over the place!

I'm 5'8"/180 lbs. and wear anything between 38S and 40S.


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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

Crocto,

I spent quite a bit of time today looking at websites (work is slow) and trying to do some research regarding suits for shorter men. I almost was not going to post because: 1. I am certainly no expert and find it difficult to critique at this level with the other members who are clearly more knowledgable with more experience than I have and 2. I find it difficult to make suggestions without sounding like I am criticizing your choices on what was obviously an expensive and long awaited purchase for you.

However, the fact that you post here and have done so for some time leads me to believe that you will take all that I am about to say as it is meant. That is, hopefully to help your future purchases and also hopefully to allow other members to let me know where I am making mistakes.
Let me start off by saying that as a first impression the suit looks great. I think you got a very good price on what seems to be a very stylish suit. Outside of these forums, 99 percent of people would think you got it just right.
Thoughts:
As much as I love the color and fabric, everything I am reading would seem to indicate that a darker suit, either charcoal or navy would be better on someone of your height. It has been my own experience that a darker color does nore to hide all of the little things while a lighter suit just blares them out for viewing;
I think the shoulders look great, by far the best part of the fit to my eye but starting at the front chest around where the breast pocket sits and then downward, I think it is too tight.
I think the length of the jacket is perfect but the button placement (as has been mentioned) seems to be clearly too high. I would venture to say the bottom button looks closer in my view to where the top button should be but to raise it an inch or so above that would seem okay as well. This is especially important for a shorter man to allow more view of the shirt above the button to elongate your torso;
It is hard to tell but it looks like this has roped shoulders and again, it is suggested that roped shoulders tend to look better on a more athletically built taller man. Everything on your suit should be geared towards making the eye look horizontal instead of vertical;
I think the sleeves look clearly too large from the top to the bottom. This may be what a JA suit looks like but I think that when you stand naturally as you are in your picture, you should be able to see a small gap in the space between your body and your arms. I assume this can be corrected;
You did not give us any pictures of the pants without the jacket but I am guessing that the pants (and this may be the result of the mistake they made with the modern fit as it sounds like they already did quite a bit of tailoring here,) don't fit you perfectly. Everything I have read today would indicate that for a shorter man, it is important that the rise be made smaller. Not smaller compared to the pants in full but shorter in actuality than what a taller man might need. I cannot see your waist but I find the drape of the pants a little off and at the risk of sounding too personal, my view makes the crotch area look like either you are wearing the waist too high or it is a tad too tight;
I cannot tell if you have cuffs and certainly you do not need them but if you do put them on, they need to be shorter to compensate for the reduced length of the inseam;
I agree with Jovan that the slanted pockets are a nice touch and with others that the ticket pocket, while a cool addition, is also not a good idea on a shorter man, having another thing in the line of sight to stop the vertical pull. I am wondering if you might actually be better served with a jetted pocket with no flap. Although this would seem to be reserved mainly for more formal wear. It might be a small detail which helps to once again allow for a more pure line from top to bottom. I have seen this phenomenon while I thrift although usually for more fashionable forward brands like Hugo Boss and I generally do not like the look for myself but in this case...maybe something to at least think about.

Well, I hope that did not sound too bad. I really think you will have no problem wearing this and looking great for years to come but I think that maybe some of these ideas could help more in the next purchase. I don't have any doubt that most if not all of the men on these forums would go bespoke given the means and coming from someone who has thrifted his entire wardrobe, I can certainly understand that this was a large expenditure. I think that perhaps in the future if you can get a better base suit fit wise for your body type, MTM could make quick work of a lot of these other little issues. I would also suggest that perhaps others on these forums who are in your height range might share a little more of what they found to be workable.

Hoping this is helpful,


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

crocto said:


> Yeah being this short _sucks_. Most short jackets are too long. The only ones I've found that really do a good job of fitting my diminutive body are Charles Tyrwhitt Ted and Banana Republic. The button position is OK. My Banana Republic suits have a buttoning position that's probably about an inch or so lower and it's spot on. Here's a view of them. The MW guys said basically because it's MtM and not full custom there isn't much I could do with that.
> 
> I did some shopping around. Even went into NYC. Went to my.suit, Black Lapel, and one other whose name escapes me. I would have gone with Black Lapel except for two reasons: the cost ($20 for train + $10 for parking + time) of getting into NYC and the suits aren't made in the U.S. Jovan has an excellent Black Lapel suit but I figured if I was going to spend $500+ on something it might as well be made here.
> 
> I'll get some pictures of the pick stitching and fictional button sleeves tonight.


Hey, I recently read about this guy/shop. Can't remember the source, but I Googled him and this was in the NYT a few years ago so he's been around at least a few years. Have you checked Peter Manning out?

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/29/fashion/peter-manning-designs-clothes-for-shorter-men.html?_r=0

I suspect they may be a bit pricey.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

I think that any fit issues could be resolved by the natural reduction in weight that occurs once winter is over. It seems to me that Mr Crocto has overall done well given the combination of constraint and desire. Wear it in good health!


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## crocto (Dec 12, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have a very thick skin so feel free to say whatever. I'll try to answer some more of the questions.

The ticket pocket is a matter of style. I just really like the look of it. I can see how it would add an extra bit of heft to where I don't need but I just like ticket pockets.

The shoulders on the suit are very good. Even the Modern cut has very lightly padded shoulders which is great.

Woofa, thanks for all the great feedback. I think there are some things I just can't change. The button position is higher than I would like but it's not as high as some of the other suits I've seen, like SuitSupply. The roped shoulder isn't something I can change. I honestly didn't even think of it. The chest fits quite well and there's no pulling in the back across the shoulder or down near my waist. I'll get some pictures of just the pants. I think the problem is that the pants were the Modern fit and I had them tapered and taken in quite a bit to slim them down. So instead of having a short rise with a slim pant I have a long rise with a slim pant so it looks slightly off.

As far as the cuffs go they're probably big looking because I've got small hands. No jokes! Honestly, looking at my other pictures all of the sleeves on my jackets look big mostly because I'm not a normal sized person!

Medhat, thanks for the Peter Manning link I haven't heard of him and will check it out!

Stephen is right. Once I stop eating like an American I'll probably lose a pound or two.

Searching here are some pictures of the lapel and the pick stitching. I hope they help.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

What's wrong with roped shoulders...?


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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

I apologize if my post sounded like I did not like roped shoulders. What I had in fact read online is that anytime you are looking to minimize "breaks" in a line of sight, the best way to do this is remove all places in the outfit which cause a person's eyes to stop somewhere during their view. The thinking seemed to be that when a person is either shorter or taller than average, it is best to make as clean a look as possible, minimizing most ornamentation which, in theory would bring attention to the height difference.
This could really be just too far afield, similar to the removal of flaps on the pockets. I think I only ran across this on one website somewhere and could really just be the style that designer liked more than a good rule of thumb. Sorry for the confusion there.


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## ilikeyourstyle (Apr 24, 2007)

I like the suggestion of letting out the waist to relax the strain on that button. I think it looks quite nice otherwise. I used to have a suit that colour, and I loved wearing it, though I always chose burgundy/brown shoes.


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## Searching_Best_Fit (Feb 11, 2015)

crocto said:


> Searching here are some pictures of the lapel and the pick stitching. I hope they help.


Thanks for sharing the pictures. I like the pick-stitching done because it is not too visible but there. The back of the lapel seems fine.

So it seems the ticket pocket is done with both besom and flap options. IMO you can just fold the flap of the ticket pocket in to make it a besom style to minimize the effect while still provides the functionality.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Please don't do that. It looks disjointed to have that one pocket jetted and the rest flapped.



Woofa said:


> I apologize if my post sounded like I did not like roped shoulders. What I had in fact read online is that anytime you are looking to minimize "breaks" in a line of sight, the best way to do this is remove all places in the outfit which cause a person's eyes to stop somewhere during their view. The thinking seemed to be that when a person is either shorter or taller than average, it is best to make as clean a look as possible, minimizing most ornamentation which, in theory would bring attention to the height difference.
> This could really be just too far afield, similar to the removal of flaps on the pockets. I think I only ran across this on one website somewhere and could really just be the style that designer liked more than a good rule of thumb. Sorry for the confusion there.


Thanks for your explanation. I'm not sure how roping would fit into that, however. If anything it draws the eyes vertically, as do hacking pockets. I do not believe cuffs make or break (no pun intended) a suit trouser for short men either.


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## TheBarbaron (Oct 8, 2010)

I'm thrilled everything worked out for you, Crocto. It's a lovely suit (I've eyed that fabric myself). 

The one suggestion I would make, if you decide to get another one at any point, is that your consultant order a suit as two pieces (a "sportcoat" and a pant). That lets you have a modern fit jacket and a slim fit pant if you so desire. As a suit unit, one must stay within one silhouette, but there's no price or style difference for ordering each piece separately.


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## crocto (Dec 12, 2012)

The pick stitching is pretty subtle when combined with the color of the suit. They showed me a navy blue one were it was a bit more noticeable. It's was still pretty subtle and well done. Well worth the extra $10.

Thanks Barbaron. You did a great job answering my questions. The MW staff goofed and I didn't pay enough attention so I got a Modern instead of the Slim (which is what I wanted). If I get another one I'll make sure I pay more attention.

Don't like cuffs mostly because it makes me think of 1915 not 2015. The Ted Baker suit I wore the other day has a roped shoulder and a similar buttoning position.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

crocto said:


>


I am a trifle late to the party and, further, have not read every post of commentary. This said the suit seems OK (perhaps a touch baggy in the crotch...?) and certainly better than most examples one sees day-to-day.

Clearly the issue that you have is how best to address your proportions and to this end the single easiest, quickest, cost-free, improvement to this suit would be simply to tuck in the pocket flaps - something that I often do myself with a suit (but never a sport jacket) for I prefer the sleeker line it provides.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

Shaver said:


> Clearly the issue that you have is how best to address your proportions and to this end the single easiest, quickest, cost-free, improvement to this suit would be simply to tuck in the pocket flaps - something that I often do myself with a suit (but never a sport jacket) for I prefer the sleeker line it provides.


Jovan pointed out, it would look a bit "off" to have the pocket flaps tucked but the flap to the ticket pocket left out (I don't recall if I've ever seen a jetted ticket pocket).

But beautiful fabric and I really like the pick stitching, a steal at $10 (even if machine done, which is almost a certainty).


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## crocto (Dec 12, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I am a trifle late to the party and, further, have not read every post of commentary. This said the suit seems OK (perhaps a touch baggy in the crotch...?) and certainly better than most examples one sees day-to-day.


Yeah I think that's from having the fit as Modern instead of Slim. When I get some time I'm going to take it back to MW and see if they can fix it up a bit for me.

The flap tucking won't work because I don't think the ticket pocket flap will fit in it's own pocket.

Medhat, they bumped up the price of the stitching and ticket pocket from $10 to $15. I think the functional buttons on the sleeve are still $50 though.


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## ran23 (Dec 11, 2014)

I only wish I was bigger, 40-42 size. My local Men's shop/consignment took in almost 12 of these suits.


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