# Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style



## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

That looks pretty interesting:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0...104-4703130-0219922?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Does anybody know more about the book? Judging from the title I`d imagine it is made up like Boyer`s book about Fred Astaire.


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

The book is not slated to be released until September but here is the publisher's catalogue with a description of the book etc:

https://www.twbookmark.com/library/bulfw07.pdf


----------



## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

It has potential, but I could have done without Armani and Kors. It's too bad Boyer didn't do the project instead.


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

I am not familiar with the author and am reluctant to judge how well suited he might be to this task before reading the book. However, I would add that if one is looking for a rather good biography of Cary Grant, Marc Eliot's 2004 _Cary Grant: A Biography _ should suffice rather nicely.


----------



## RichardS (Nov 20, 2004)

Eliot`s book is really well researched and one of the best bios I have read on the subject so far (and I own about 5-6). Nevertheless, if the authors focuse more on the actor`s dress style (as Boyer did in his Astaire book which is by no means a bio) than on his life I`ll be the first to place an order.


BTW, medwards, I got the second Fallan & Harvey suit I wrote about some weeks ago, and it`s stunning.


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

I am a great admirer of Mr. Boyer and wish that the Astaire book contained a great deal more of his writing...

I've been thinking that rather than individual books on each of these celebrities a compendium could be a rather nice book. Perhaps someone might put that bee in Mr. Boyer's bonnet.  

And RichardS: Congratulations on the suit. I am delighted that it worked out so well. I'd be a tad jealous but my latest from F&H should be delivered on Wednesday. :icon_smile:


----------



## constantmystery (Apr 18, 2006)

*I agree with medwards...*

Yes, I found that I wish the Boyer book had more writing to accompany the pics. I remember reading two of Bruce Boyer's books in the late 80's-early 90's one called "Elegance" (I think...) and the other whose title i cannot recall. each was chockful of salient advice and illustrations.

I think Boyer could do a compendium on the great "dressers" incl; Adolph Menjou, etc, (remember his book,"It took nine tailors...")

One of the best books on men's classic fashion was published by Rizzoli and written by Woody Hochswender enttitled,"Men in Style" and it featured illustrations fron 30's era Esquire and Apparel Arts all the way up to the mid 50's...eachillustration is followed by rather arch and detailed commentaqry on the clothing displayed... Read it !


----------



## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

constantmystery said:


> I remember reading two of Bruce Boyer's books in the late 80's-early 90's one called "Elegance" (I think...)


:icon_hailthee:


----------



## cuffthis (Jul 13, 2004)

i will look forward to the release of this. Anything CG related catches my attention.


----------



## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

and the other whose title i cannot recall. 


The second book was called "Eminenty Suitable" and while somewhat dated it was a thorough discussion of the construction of tailored clothing and tracked the demise of the manufacturing of quality clothing in the U.S.


----------



## Maggio (Apr 4, 2005)

I like the premise...still love to look at Grant in North by Northwest.

I am sure there will be photos in the book we can all go gah-gah over.


----------



## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

constantmystery said:


> Yes, I found that I wish the Boyer book had more writing to accompany the pics. I remember reading two of Bruce Boyer's books in the late 80's-early 90's one called "Elegance" (I think...) and the other whose title i cannot recall. each was chockful of salient advice and illustrations.
> 
> I think Boyer could do a compendium on the great "dressers" incl; Adolph Menjou, etc, (remember his book,"It took nine tailors...")
> 
> One of the best books on men's classic fashion was published by Rizzoli and written by Woody Hochswender enttitled,"Men in Style" and it featured illustrations fron 30's era Esquire and Apparel Arts all the way up to the mid 50's...eachillustration is followed by rather arch and detailed commentaqry on the clothing displayed... Read it !


Great idea for a new book on "Great Dressers" which could include film and other great dressers not from the entertainment industry such as the redoubtable Signore Agnelli, etc..

Further, is "Men in Style" still in print? I am not too far from Rizzoli's and would wander up there if the book could still be purchased.

Thanks for these thoughts.

Joe


----------



## archduke (Nov 21, 2003)

AlanC said:


> It has potential, but I could have done without Armani and Kors. It's too bad Boyer didn't do the project instead.


What's wrong with Armani? OK, he charges a lot for his clothes but the man has a good eye or he surely would not be in his business.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

I am the author of Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style, Foreword by Giorgio Armani, Afterword by Michael Kors, due out Sept. 4th. It's the first full-length biography of Cary Grant that traces his evolution as a style icon.

Any Cary Grant style fans out there?


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Welcome. I believe you will find quite a bit of interest on this Forum. If you were to sum up Mr. Grant's approach to style and what was unique about him, what would you say?

By the way, you will see that interest in your book preceded you.

_Moderator's Note: previous thread cited subsequently merged into this discussion and those postings now precede the author's message above._


----------



## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

I look forward to the book, I'm sure ther's a few Cary Grant fans on here although I've only just joined so can't be sure.


----------



## Keith T (May 15, 2006)

There are tons of us, believe me. Archie receives much praise here at AAAC and over on Style Forum. I already have the book on order and cannot wait to get it. Welcome aboard.


----------



## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

I am a Cary Grant fan. I look forward to seeing your book.

Welcome to Ask Andy!


----------



## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Just saw "Notorious" for the umpteenth time yesterday. Would definitely like to get a copy. He was a hero to me even before I realized I liked nice clothes.


----------



## 99debra99 (Aug 14, 2006)

Hiyya!

A man full of style and panache :icon_smile: I look forward to your book with great interest.

regards, Debra.


----------



## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

Keith T said:


> There are tons of us, believe me. Archie receives much praise here at AAAC and over on Style Forum. I already have the book on order and cannot wait to get it. Welcome aboard.


Thank you, I'm sure Mr Leach would be inpressed with the forum.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Nice to have you aboard with us, too, Richard. (I had noticed your recent participation in a smaller forum.) You can count me in too as another one eagerly awaiting the publication of your book so I can add it to my small sartorial library.

Without wishing to be too repetitious, I will second the remarks that Cary Grant is much revered among us as one of the great style icons of the 20th century--usually as part of a trinity with the Prince/Duke and Fred Astaire.


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

*Participant or Peddler?*

I do hope you have joined this Forum to paricipate and not just peddle your book. I am sure that this Forum's members would be exceptionally interested in a real conversation about what you have learned about Mr. Grant and about style. So let us begin....


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> I do hope you have joined this Forum to paricipate and not just peddle your book.


Give the guy a break. I doubt anyone has ever gotten rich writing style books. Or even made a living. I will let him speak for himself, but I can say from experience that these books are labors of love, and part of the reward is to share one's passion with others.

I for one am looking forward to the book


----------



## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

Any book on Cg will get some $$$ out of me... guy would look cool in a prison jumpsuit.

Rich- suggestion, replace the @ with AT in your name else every email addy hunting webbot will pick it up and you will get Spammed to death.

...Unless you want ED medications delivered to you by underage farm girls who have no shame...


----------



## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

*Greetings Richard!*

Let's be nice to Richard, he's a veritable font of CG info and affable to boot.


----------



## Jill (Sep 11, 2003)

Wow! What a pic! Are those black suede shoes?

I dunno how many we have here now, but there's always room for more Cary Grant books.

I was just saying this morning that when I had more time, I wanted to post a new CG thread re: his (and Edith Head's) wardrobe in To Catch a Thief. I just introduced this great picture to the next generation over the weekend, and she loved the "style" of the movie. There's an interesting mini-documentary on the DVD about her and how his look was selected for the various scenes. 

One of my favorite looks is in the very beginning of the movie. He's at the bottom of the staircase, before he ascends to his bedroom to escape the police. He has on what must be 10 pound trousers, just judging by the drape, and a striped "T-shirt" with a scarf tied under it. This picture doesn't really do it justice, so I used one form the next scene outside in the flower market. You get the idea... Then a closeup...


I also love the outfit when it looks like he has a silk ascot under what looks like a reversed gray sweatshirt! 



Who else could pull that off with such aplomb?


----------



## Fortinbras (Feb 4, 2005)

What sort of hat is Mr. Grant carrying? I have a similar suit and may give the hat a try.


----------



## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

*Congratulations and Much Success!*

Best wishes for success with your new book. Will pick it up when I see it. Is it a part of the series that includes last year's Astair style book?

Joe


----------



## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

*Ssshhhhhhhhhhhh!*



Jill said:


> Are those black suede shoes?


Yep. And a Black overcoat as well.  Forgive him, he didn't know the rules.:icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Welcome. I think it's universal that the style of CG is appreciated here at AAAC.

M8


----------



## Jill (Sep 11, 2003)

Tomasso said:


> Yep. And a Black overcoat as well.  Forgive him, he didn't know the rules.:icon_smile_wink:


LOL! He probably "broke the rules" more than an other style icon in history (except perhaps the DoW). But noone has ever looked so good breaking them!!


----------



## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

Fortinbras said:


> What sort of hat is Mr. Grant carrying? I have a similar suit and may give the hat a try.


A gray fedora with a deep diamond bash


----------



## constantmystery (Apr 18, 2006)

I met Cary Grant at a Hollywood private club some twenty odd years ago. His personal manner was as elegant as his wardrobe.


----------



## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

constantmystery said:


> I met Cary Grant at a Hollywood private club some twenty odd years ago. His personal manner was as elegant as his wardrobe.


i envy you!


----------



## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

Cary Grant is my style favorite. Can you post a brief outline of your book?


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

RichardS said:


> That looks pretty interesting:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0...104-4703130-0219922?s=books&v=glance&n=283155
> 
> Does anybody know more about the book? Judging from the title I`d imagine it is made up like Boyer`s book about Fred Astaire.


Good God no! Boyer's book is a magazine article with a bunch of photos. This is a full-length biography with over 100 photos, some rare and never before published, and documents.

--Richard Torregrossa, author of Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style,


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

medwards said:


> Welcome. I believe you will find quite a bit of interest on this Forum. If you were to sum up Mr. Grant's approach to style and what was unique about him, what would you say?
> 
> By the way, you will see that interest in your book preceded you:


Tough question. It took me an entire book to answer that one. But briefly I would say that he genuinely loved clothes. I think for a lot of other style icons clothes were a job requirement, a career necessity, but for him they really were a love and a passion, something that enriched his life, and I think that's what we respond to as much as the clothes themselves and the rest of his talents.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Chuck Franke said:


> Any book on Cg will get some $$$ out of me... guy would look cool in a prison jumpsuit.
> 
> Rich- suggestion, replace the @ with AT in your name else every email addy hunting webbot will pick it up and you will get Spammed to death.
> 
> ...Unless you want ED medications delivered to you by underage farm girls who have no shame...


Hey, thanks for that. Stupid mistake on my part!!!!

Cheers,
Richard
P.S. Love that line--CG "would look cool in a prison jumpsuit." Brilliant! You should copyright it.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Joe Frances said:


> Best wishes for success with your new book. Will pick it up when I see it. Is it a part of the series that includes last year's Astair style book?
> 
> Joe


Thanks, Joe. No, nothing to do with the Astaire book. It's much more ambitious. Nothing against Mr. Boyer, but this is a full-length biography that is the first book that traces Grant's development as a man of style. I think you'll particularly enjoy the never-before-published photos by the legendary Bob Willoughby and all the original material, such as the interviews with Grant's tailors.

But it goes deeper than that. I think style reflects character. And CG was an extraordinary man, outside and in.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Keith T said:


> There are tons of us, believe me. Archie receives much praise here at AAAC and over on Style Forum. I already have the book on order and cannot wait to get it. Welcome aboard.


Thanks, Keith.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> I do hope you have joined this Forum to paricipate and not just peddle your book. I am sure that this Forum's members would be exceptionally interested in a real conversation about what you have learned about Mr. Grant and about style. So let us begin....


I am here to participate. I worked on this book for more than three years, thinking I was alone in my sartorial obsession and fascination with the life and style of CG. You can't imagine how relieved I was to find gents with similar interests. So, Mr. Chatterbox, ask away.

Also, a big thanks to the friendly and knowledgeable Tomasso for recommending this site.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

99debra99 said:


> Hiyya!
> 
> A man full of style and panache :icon_smile: I look forward to your book with great interest.
> 
> regards, Debra.


Thanks, Debra. You'll be glad to hear that CG was wild about shoes, too.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

medwards said:


> Welcome. I believe you will find quite a bit of interest on this Forum. If you were to sum up Mr. Grant's approach to style and what was unique about him, what would you say?
> 
> By the way, you will see that interest in your book preceded you:


Thanks for the welcome and the tip about the previous posts. Tough question. It took me an entire book to answer that one. But I would say that CG genuinely loved clothes and unlike some style icons wearing them was more than a job requirement or a career necessity, but a joy and a passion, something that enriched his life. I think that comes through as much as the quality of the clothes themselves and his other talents.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

outrigger said:


> I look forward to the book, I'm sure ther's a few Cary Grant fans on here although I've only just joined so can't be sure.


Happily, they are out there in huge numbers, all extremely knowledgeable too!


----------



## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

welcome to the forum, mr. torregrossa. and congratulations on your book. in all probability that will be part of my small collection of table books.

i'm just curious as to why you wrote (or compiled) this book. looking at your previous books, this is a very different topic altogether for you, right? maybe you could shed light on this and why you chose cary grant as your subject. thanks.


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

*Some Questions to Begin a Conversation*



richt1ATmindspring.com said:


> I am here to participate. I worked on this book for more than three years, thinking I was alone in my sartorial obsession and fascination with the life and style of CG. You can't imagine how relieved I was to find gents with similar interests. So, Mr. Chatterbox, ask away.


Thank you. I for one look forward to your participation.

So here are some questions that come to mind;

Your previous books were neither about fashion nor celebrities. What brought you to this project and why did you spend three years of your life pursuing it?

How would you describe Mr. Grant's "style?" What was unique about it? How did it evolve?

Where did he shop for clothing? Was he a difficult man to please?

How much control did he have over the apparel he wore in his movies?

Did he have any syle icons of his own...individuals whose dress and demeanor he admired?

I recognize that the answers to many of these questions may be found in the pages of your book, but inasmuch as it is not yet available, I thought these might be good jumping off points for a conversation on this forum.

Sidenote to manton: Some writers actually try to sell their wares to earn a living. I see such a fellow every morning in my mirror. You're just being protective of a fellow Tom Wolfe fan. :icon_smile_big: By the way, amazon.com has a special deal for those who order this book paired with one called _The Suit_.


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*Town & Country Excerpt*

For those who would like to sample Mr. Torregrossa's work and cannot wait until the book's publication date, thdere is a very nice excerpt in the September issue of _Town & Country _magazine.

Oh yes, there is also a little shopping guide on how to dress like Cary Grant.


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

Hey, Manton. See Mr. T around lately? :devil:


----------



## erasmus (Sep 26, 2004)

Welcome to the board, Mr. Torregrossa. Do let us know if you are planning to have a book signing party or related event, especially in the Los Angeles area. I'm sure the Southern California contingent of AskAndy would be interested in attending. I know I would be happy to attend and purchase your book.


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Amazon.com now has the book in stock.


----------



## alaric (May 23, 2005)

Just picked up a copy yesterday in Borders.

The book has a nice balance of photos and copy. A good read, well worth the purchase.

alaric


----------



## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

I'd have liked more on his clothes, of course, but the best book on Grant's style to date.


----------



## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

richstyle said:


> I am the author of Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style, Foreword by Giorgio Armani, Afterword by Michael Kors, due out Sept. 4th. It's the first full-length biography of Cary Grant that traces his evolution as a style icon.
> 
> Any Cary Grant style fans out there?


BTW, I have the cat book 

M8


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

acidicboy said:


> welcome to the forum, mr. torregrossa. and congratulations on your book. in all probability that will be part of my small collection of table books.
> 
> i'm just curious as to why you wrote (or compiled) this book. looking at your previous books, this is a very different topic altogether for you, right? maybe you could shed light on this and why you chose cary grant as your subject. thanks.


It's all art to me. This'll take some explaining.

When I was working as a journalist more than ten years ago, there was very little fashion coverage and there were already lots of bios of CG (about 13). I'd always wanted to write about him but it seemed I'd missed the boat. Then in the late '90s, fashion and style just exploded. When people like Giorgio Armani mentioned him as an inspiration, I thought it would be interesting to do what none of the other biographers thought to do--document how he created himself through the finer points of style. And style in the broader sense--not only clothes but demeanor, behavior, developing all the qualities of a true gentleman in business as well as in his personal life.

As to the other books, I started off as a fashion illustrator, but for fun started cartooning as a hobby, really, while I was working as a jobbing jouro. The illustrations provided an appealing dimension to my text that other books didn't have. Publishers loved that. Look at The Suit, which you've discussed here. I think the illustrations add an undercurrent of humor which I enjoy, even though it's a serious topic.

And I've always looked at all things, whether it's journalism, sports, business, or dressing well, as where exactly do the professionals in these fields transcend themselves and create what is really art rather than a mere commercial product.

CG struck me as taking dressing well (and many other things) to a higher level, which I would call art. I'm sure he would laugh at this because he wasn't of that mind and just say he was merely doing the best job he could do with what he had to work with.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Martinis at 8 said:


> BTW, I have the cat book
> 
> M8


Cool. The cat book thanks to all you cat people helped me finance the researching and writing of CG.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Will said:


> I'd have liked more on his clothes, of course, but the best book on Grant's style to date.


I'm with you, pal. If only I had more time and more resources and the people in the inner circle had been more cooperative I'd have been able to offer a lot more. But I'm working on something that just might be about nothing but his sartorial eloquence.

Thanks for the kudos.


----------



## Rubini (Jun 26, 2006)

richstyle said:


> I'm sure he would laugh at this because he wasn't of that mind and just say he was merely doing the best job he could do with what he had to work with.


I just received, and am thoroughly enjoying, my copy of your book. What struck me as I read is the fact that he was not born perfect...he just employed his considerable aesthetic intelligence to package himself so that he looked perfect, ie, seeking out the right cut of suit and shirt for his body structure.
I also enjoyed that you devoted space in your book to the great man's tan. Damn, what a great tan.


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

*Thank you, Mr. T*

It's nice to see you back. I appreciate your willingness to share your insights with us. It's always good to have someone on board who has as obvious an interest in style as you do. I apologize if I seemed a tad cynical previously. I have seen more than a few vendors jump onto this Forum to make a quick sale and then leave just as quickly. I do hope you will try to stick with this little community of ours. It's the fashionable thing to do. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Thank you. I for one look forward to your participation.
> 
> So here are some questions that come to mind;
> 
> ...


Sorry for the delay. CG would be appalled by my bad manners, but here are the answers to your very thoughtful questions.

What brought me to this project was Giorgio Armani. I had been working as a journalist covering fashion for about ten years. In 2003 Mr. Armani said that his current collection was inspired by CG's timeless elegance in the Hitchcock classics Notorious and North by Northwest. I thought that was odd. CG always seemed to me to dress like a banker. Rather dull. At least compared to someone like Steve Mcqueen or the Beatles or Jimmy Page. CG is not an actor of my generation.

My father was a big fan of CG and I remember him coming home and fussing with his tie bars and cuff links, his suits and trousers, and he was big on cigarette cases too, the nifty silver kind you slide into your inside jacket pocket. He even had a jewelry box for his cuff links and other accessories! I thought this unbelievably square!

But of course then I grew up.

After the Armani event, CG's name started to pop up everywhere in the fashion world. So I went back and took another look at him--not as an actor but as a man of style and I was hooked, mostly because I guess what impressed me the most was that he evolved as a man of style, through intelligent choices, shrewd observation, and a good deal of hard work. He was not born with it. And he had a very tough early life. But he used style to transform himself and that was tremendously inspirational to me.

The CG book does seem like a rather strange departure from my other books, but not really. I studied fashion illustration in college. My work was always criticized for being "too cartoony." So at one point I said screw it, I'll just draw cartoons, which is enormous fun. When I became a journalist I drew for relaxation and at some point the writing and the drawing merged.

What was unique about CG's style is that he was a *pioneer*. He was the first man to completely transform himself through the raw materials of style. We live in an era of makeover mania, of people constantly re-inventing themselves, but he did it before there was even a name for it. He did it without the easy accessiblity to designer brands and plastic surgery and all the other things today's stars use to enhance themselves. Beau Brummell, David Niven, A.J. Biddle and all the rest--they had plenty of help and resources and education and money. CG started from zero and surpassed them all in my opinion. That's unique.

He shopped for clothing at the Burlington Arcade and as you know by now he was a client of Hawes & Curtis in his early H'wood days but he moved around a lot. It's all in the book. If he was on location, say, in Spain filming a movie he would check out the local men's shops and tailors and sometimes he would make purchases or strike up a relationship with a particular tailor, then move on. He had a serious interest and passion for quality clothing. Remember, in his day it wasn't as easy to come by quality clothing as it is today.

Was he hard to please? Let's put it this way, he did not suffer fools gladly, as I've said before. I think we've all been in situations where we've walked into a men's shop or a tailor's shop or department store and they just assume you don't know anything and they try to sell you something you don't really want or need. By the time CG was 30, he knew as much about quality menswear as any tailor, so if they tried to sell him inferior merchandise, he was having none of it.

And he was a very precise man. He had to be. He knew that everything he wore on screen would be magnified 100 times at least, so 1/8 of an inch might not seem like a lot to us, but on film every little flaw shows up, so he was meticulous about details. And time has proven him right. There's a reason why he's celebrated as a style icon 40 years after he made his last movie, 20 years after his death, more so than just about anybody.

He not only had total control over his own clothes but everybody else's. He took Doris Day shopping at Ann Taylor in NYC for That Touch of Mink because he thought they had the kind of clothes her character would wear. The wardrobe department had selected clothes that were too fancy for the role she was playing.

I would describe CG's own style as minimalist. As he said, "the simpler the better."

As to his style models, he seems to have learned from everybody: The Duke of Windsor of course. But also the Marx Brothers, Noel Coward, Henry Ford, and he never stopped learning, even well into his seventies. He commented that powerful people like Lew Wasserman wore dark suits. If he liked something by Ralph Lauren or Oleg Cassini he would drop them little notes.

if he was alive today I think he would enjoy this site because he had a 'passiono for fashion.' Though fashion is not the right word. Style would be more to the point.

Happy thoughts, as CG would say.

RT


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

"Remember, in his day, in his day it wasn't as easy to come by quality clothing as it is today." 

Do you really think that? Pricey ready-to-wear goods may or may not have been as common, but I should think that good custom tailors were far more widespread and accessible.


----------



## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

*Quality Clothing*

Right you are, JLibourel-Growing up in NYC in the 50s and 60's, there were a score of top-flight custom tailors (Dunhill Tailors, Weatherill, the custom departments at Brooks Press and others) and high quality department stores (DePinna etc.) that are gone and have often been replaced by either jeans retailers or overpriced outlets of "designer" wear.


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*Grant's Choices*

There were certainly a large number of very fine tailors to whom Carey Grant could have taken his trade in the 1950's and 60's. However, I am reminded of something George Frazier wrote of Mr. Grant in _Esquire_ in 1960: "Something of a maverick as to tailors, he now goes to Quintino (around $225 a suit) in Beverly Hills, California, and, whenever possible, certain of the preposterously low-priced geniuses in Hong Kong."


----------



## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

The book is not at B&N yet here in Houston. I will check Borders today, as I want to take a copy with me on my upcoming trip (I leave in the morning).

M8


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

JLibourel said:


> "Remember, in his day, in his day it wasn't as easy to come by quality clothing as it is today."
> 
> Do you really think that? Pricey ready-to-wear goods may or may not have been as common, but I should think that good custom tailors were far more widespread and accessible.


Yes, I think you're right. There were more good tailors in his day. I'm sure you've head people like Jack Taylor bemoan tailoring as "a dying art." I guess what I mean to say is that with the mass media covering fashion and style as obsessively as they do and a Polo Ralph Lauren, Armani, and other designer shops seemingly everywhere, ready-to-wear seems to be everywhere. And I think for the really good bespoke and off the peg, you had to travel to London or New York where the sales people were really knowledgeable.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> It's nice to see you back. I appreciate your willingness to share your insights with us. It's always good to have someone on board who has as obvious an interest in style as you do. I apologize if I seemed a tad cynical previously. I have seen more than a few vendors jump onto this Forum to make a quick sale and then leave just as quickly. I do hope you will try to stick with this little community of ours. It's the fashionable thing to do. :icon_smile_big:


:icon_smile: I shall not leave until I am booted off (with a quality bespoke boot of course).


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

constantmystery said:


> I met Cary Grant at a Hollywood private club some twenty odd years ago. His personal manner was as elegant as his wardrobe.


That's good to hear. Writing the book, I heard many stories about how gracious and kind he was--and funny. I think that's part of a man's style--not only how he looks but how he behaves.

RT


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Rubini said:


> I just received, and am thoroughly enjoying, my copy of your book. What struck me as I read is the fact that he was not born perfect...he just employed his considerable aesthetic intelligence to package himself so that he looked perfect, ie, seeking out the right cut of suit and shirt for his body structure.
> I also enjoyed that you devoted space in your book to the great man's tan. Damn, what a great tan.


Good to hear it. I think that's what fresh about the book--that he wasn't this perfect god-like creature who just breezed into Hollywood and became a style icon without any effort. It required extraordinary intelligence to do what he did.

And the bit about the tan. I tried to make the book fun.

One of my favorite interviews was with one of the make-up artists who worked with CG, a cranky old man who snapped back at me when I asked, "Well, what if there was a string of rainy days, maybe on a set somewhere like London, how did he maintain that glowing tan?" "I don't know, young man, I didn't follow him around every day." Ha!


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

richstyle said:


> Yes, I think you're right. There were more good tailors in his day. I'm sure you've head people like Jack Taylor bemoan tailoring as "a dying art." I guess what I mean to say is that with the mass media covering fashion and style as obsessively as they do and a Polo Ralph Lauren, Armani, and other designer shops seemingly everywhere, ready-to-wear seems to be everywhere. And I think for the really good bespoke and off the peg, you had to travel to London or New York where the sales people were really knowledgeable.


I've given this a bit more thought. What I was thinking is this. When I lived in San Diego in 1990, The Gap was the big fashion store and that was it. The freakin' Gap! Ha!

Now in La Jolla in the space of one block there's an Armani/X, Polo RL, a Banana Republic, and two tailors I frequent, one who makes my ties (because no one else wants to bother with such small change) and one who makes my suits, a bleary-eyed gent who takes forever because he's so damn busy. A a Bloomingdales is set to open soon too in one of the malls. A Bloomingdale's in San Diego! Never thought I'd see the day. And now Savile Row tailors travel to the states quite frequently. They come to YOU. Stephen Lachter was in NYC a few months ago, seeing clients, doing fittings,etc.

So I'm saying this kind of accessibility is really quite new. If you were a movie star like Mr. Grant, you could jet off to London or NYC and buy what you needed and seek out the best. But I just don't think quality or at least fairly good quality clothing and accessories have ever been more accessible than they are today.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I bought the book at my local B&N yesterday evening and pored over last night and early this morning before rising. It am up to the chapter about Grant and his women. It is certainly a book that belongs in every sartorialist's library.

Richard, I see that you live in L.A. Any chance of local signings? I am sure that a number of forumites would like to attend and perhaps make an event of it.

One thing that surprised me is that in a goodly percentage of the photos of situations where CG might or should have been wearing a pocket square, he wasn't. Admittedly, some of these were from his movies. Still it seems surprising. The pocket square was conspicuous by its absence in about 40% of the photos where most of us would have thought it should have been present.


----------



## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

I can't wait to get this book. Thanks Rich for this insider commentary and for creating such a style book. Keep on keeping on.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

erasmus said:


> Welcome to the board, Mr. Torregrossa. Do let us know if you are planning to have a book signing party or related event, especially in the Los Angeles area. I'm sure the Southern California contingent of AskAndy would be interested in attending. I know I would be happy to attend and purchase your book.


I'm thinking maybe Book Soup in Los Angeles for a signing in October. Unless you know of a better venue.

I'm also thinking of getting a bunch of authors together who have written on the subject of fashion and style and maybe doing a Q&A with the audience. Manton is on the East Coast, but I might be able to assemble an interesting group from the L.A. area. Not only writers who write on sartorial matters but maybe even film critics, costume designers, etc., who could offer their view on the power of style.

The question is where. Anybody got any ideas?

--RT


----------



## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

richstyle said:


> I'm thinking maybe Book Soup in Los Angeles for a signing in October. Unless you know of a better venue.
> 
> I'm also thinking of getting a bunch of authors together who have written on the subject of fashion and style and maybe doing a Q&A with the audience. Manton is on the East Coast, but I might be able to assemble an interesting group from the L.A. area. Not only writers who write on sartorial matters but maybe even film critics, costume designers, etc., who could offer their view on the power of style.
> 
> ...


How about the Rose Bowl?


----------



## undarted (Jul 5, 2005)

I love this thread. Rich, I think you nailed it when you said he was a pioneer, in the sense that he was a style icon, not fashion! I think CG epitomized that distinction, which makes him such a heavyweight around here. If Ask Andy had to identify one individual that captures its philosophy, I think he would be Cary Grant.

I am definitely going to check it out at Barnes, if it's there.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

JLibourel said:


> I bought the book at my local B&N yesterday evening and pored over last night and early this morning before rising. It am up to the chapter about Grant and his women. It is certainly a book that belongs in every sartorialist's library.
> 
> Richard, I see that you live in L.A. Any chance of local signings? I am sure that a number of forumites would like to attend and perhaps make an event of it.
> 
> One thing that surprised me is that in a goodly percentage of the photos of situations where CG might or should have been wearing a pocket square, he wasn't. Admittedly, some of these were from his movies. Still it seems surprising. The pocket square was conspicuous by its absence in about 40% of the photos where most of us would have thought it should have been present.


A local signing has been suggested and I'll check with Book Soup. I shall keep you all posted. A forum somewhere would be even better. Any ideas?

Very sharp observation about CG's omission of pocket squares-particularly odd for a man who claimed to have invented or popularized the square version. You know I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out. Here's my guess as to why.

Early on, in the 30s and 40s, I think you see him with pocket handkerchiefs, especially in the 30s, in all manners-- fluffed and stuffed, pointed, etc. See the photo of CG and Katherine Hepburn in the book.

But I think as he got older he paired down his style. As Diana Vreeland famously said, "style (or was it elegance?) is elimination." Grant himself said about style "the simpler the better." Perhaps that was one of the accessories he eliminated.

But I think the reason might also be a technical one concerning movies. Mainly lighting. In North by Northwest he wears the famous mid-gray suit and matching tie but no pocket square. I think a white pocket square might've reflected light in a way Hitch or CG thought distracting.

Eva Marie Saint told me that on that picture they had trouble lighting them because he was so tan and she was so light skinned. So maybe the white pocket square was eliminated because of the way it reflected light. (His white shirt does look to me like it's piped with halogen lighting it's so bright.) She also told me that he traveled light and seemed to embrace a real minimalist approach to dressing.

But I for one am all for pocket squares!

Cheers,
RT


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

milesfides said:


> I love this thread. Rich, I think you nailed it when you said he was a pioneer, in the sense that he was a style icon, not fashion! I think CG epitomized that distinction, which makes him such a heavyweight around here. If Ask Andy had to identify one individual that captures its philosophy, I think he would be Cary Grant.
> 
> I am definitely going to check it out at Barnes, if it's there.


I owe a thanks to Mr. Chatterbox because he asked the question, What makes CG unique, and that got me thinking. It wasn't an easy question to answer because he had so many sterling qualities that combined to make him the icon that he is, but I wanted to sum it up in one word. I'm glad you think "pioneer" sounded right.


----------



## erasmus (Sep 26, 2004)

richstyle said:


> I'm thinking maybe Book Soup in Los Angeles for a signing in October. Unless you know of a better venue.
> 
> I'm also thinking of getting a bunch of authors together who have written on the subject of fashion and style and maybe doing a Q&A with the audience. Manton is on the East Coast, but I might be able to assemble an interesting group from the L.A. area. Not only writers who write on sartorial matters but maybe even film critics, costume designers, etc., who could offer their view on the power of style.
> 
> ...


A menswear store would be a possibility (probably an independent store). Manton had his signing at Venanzi in midtown Manhattan. I noticed Domenico Vacca has a store now on Rodeo.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

erasmus said:


> A menswear store would be a possibility (probably an independent store). Manton had his signing at Venanzi in midtown Manhattan. I noticed Domenico Vacca has a store now on Rodeo.


I know a gal at the Domenico Vacca store. Could be a possibility. I'm checking around... Wonder if I could get some CG people to come....


----------



## Rubini (Jun 26, 2006)

richstyle said:


> The question is where. Anybody got any ideas?
> 
> --RT


Apparently, CG used to eat at Canter's Deli. Maybe you could hold the event there...


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Surprising that Canter's doesn't include him on its list of celebrity noshers:


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

medwards said:


> Surprising that Canter's doesn't include him on its list of celebrity noshers:


And the Ivy. I've got a xerox of a menu he had all of his pals sign at a dinner one night. I'll post it if I ever get my scanner up and running again.

I've got a whole list of restaurants he frequented. Delmonico's. There's a famous Chinese restaurant he liked...he knew the owners for years, even had them up to his house for dinner....the restaurant angle is a good one.


----------



## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

As much as I look forward to my next meal at Canters, I wouldn't want to attend a book signing there -- especially not one devoted to the elegance of CG. As with all the other SoCal forum members, however, I eagerly await the announcement of a date and location! 

(Vacca would be nice, but I think the Ralph Lauren shop is more representative of CG's British-American look than the neopolitan offerings directly across the street at Vacca).


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

LARon said:


> As much as I look forward to my next meal at Canters, I wouldn't want to attend a book signing there -- especially not one devoted to the elegance of CG. As with all the other SoCal forum members, however, I eagerly await the announcement of a date and location!
> 
> (Vacca would be nice, but I think the Ralph Lauren shop is more representative of CG's British-American look than the neopolitan offerings directly across the street at Vacca).


Brilliant! Forgot he had a store there. You're right. RL's style is very much in line with Grant's. In fact, he loved the book and the book will be on sale in all of his stores. Perfect setting.


----------



## erasmus (Sep 26, 2004)

LARon said:


> As much as I look forward to my next meal at Canters, I wouldn't want to attend a book signing there -- especially not one devoted to the elegance of CG. As with all the other SoCal forum members, however, I eagerly await the announcement of a date and location!
> 
> (Vacca would be nice, but I think the Ralph Lauren shop is more representative of CG's British-American look than the neopolitan offerings directly across the street at Vacca).


Yes, that's quite true BB would be sartorially more in keeping with CG's Anglo-American style. BB also has a larger space and the store manager seems nice. Definitely an option. I was thinking it might be easier to work with an independent store.

Just brainstorming, but I'm thinking the store might see some value in scheduling the book signing with a MTM event or trunk show at BB or Vacca.


----------



## Rubini (Jun 26, 2006)

richstyle said:


> Brilliant! Forgot he had a store there. You're right. RL's style is very much in line with Grant's. In fact, he loved the book and the book will be on sale in all of his stores. Perfect setting.


According to your book RL & CG were friends, were they not?


----------



## erasmus (Sep 26, 2004)

Ha, I subconsciously read "Brooks Brothers" instead of "Ralph Lauren" in Laron's post above. Both would be good candidates.


----------



## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

For all that BB represents in the pantheon of classic American style, I believe RL's the better venue. The atmosphere is significantly more elegant and upscale and far less trad.

Just let us know the date.


----------



## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

Rubini said:


> According to your book RL & CG were friends, were they not?


They were certainly acquantences. RL appears in the documentary "Cary Grant: A Class Apart" and tells of spending a day at the racetrack with CG.

I recommend the documentary.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388815/


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

As long as we are considering sites in Beverly Hills for this potential get-together, I might suggest someone approach Carroll & Co. as a potential host venue. The store is a good deal more spacious and "centered" (if that's the right word) than the BH Polo store, which is rather labyrinthine. About the only room of any size in the latter is where the suits and sport coats are displayed, and that's still not nearly as spacious as the showroom of Carroll & Co.


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Or Jack Taylor's? After all, he was the man _Variety_ said dressed Cary Grant:


----------



## erasmus (Sep 26, 2004)

LARon said:


> For all that BB represents in the pantheon of classic American style, I believe RL's the better venue. The atmosphere is significantly more elegant and upscale and far less trad.
> 
> Just let us know the date.


Agreed, let us know the date. However, the venue I think is somewhat dependent on what the author wishes to get out of the event. If he wants to do a traditional reading and signing, then a bookstore would seem to be a better bet. Bookstores are set up for those events, retail stores not as well. Incidentally, Dutton's, a great independent bookshop in Brentwood, has a new branch in Beverly Hills on Canon Dr (.

Alternatively, the author could do both a reading/signing at Dutton's and walk around the corner to Ralph Lauren (CG knew RL), Brooks Bros (CG loved BB buttondowns) or Vacca to hold a more sartorial meet/greet at those establishments.

Another interesting possibility is Carroll & Co, which is just a couple of stores down the street from Dutton's (. Carroll & Co says CG was one of its clients.


----------



## erasmus (Sep 26, 2004)

JLibourel said:


> As long as we are considering sites in Beverly Hills for this potential get-together, I might suggest someone approach Carroll & Co. as a potential host venue. The store is a good deal more spacious and "centered" (if that's the right word) than the BH Polo store, which is rather labyrinthine. About the only room of any size in the latter is where the suits and sport coats are displayed, and that's still not nearly as spacious as the showroom of Carroll & Co.


Apparently great minds (and guns) think alike


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Rubini said:


> According to your book RL & CG were friends, were they not?


Yes, they were friends in CG's later years. CG was one of RL's early childhood idols. They used to go to the track together and Grant admired his line. I have receipts from Polo for stuff CG bought for his daughter--riding clothes and such--that didn't make it into the book. Also letters. If we can pull of that book signing, I'll bring them and other interesting tidbits, a a funny letter from Woody Allen to CG, etc., etc.

The entire RL Polo line seems to have been inspired by CG or at least the Savile Row cut.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

medwards said:


> Or Jack Taylor's? After all, he was the man _Variety_ said dressed Cary Grant:


Jack's joint is pretty narrow and small. But Spago is right next door....


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

*CG: A Celebration of Style book signing*

All I want out of it is to have some fun, sign some books, and share with the members here some of the things that didn't make it into the book. Not a great deal of sartorial stuff but still interesting tidbits.

But the question my publisher is asking. How many people do you think will attend?

Can anybody hazard a guess?

Many thanks for the interest.

RT


----------



## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

I'll be one.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

LARon said:


> I'll be one.


Okay, then, that's a start. Anybody else?

P.S. Maybe Andy could moderate a Q&A.


----------



## Rubini (Jun 26, 2006)

richstyle said:


> Okay, then, that's a start. Anybody else?


I'm in.


----------



## erasmus (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm in as well. To get a better feel for attendance, perhaps you can pick a date /time and set up an online poll, which I think is doable on AA now. But someone correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I am in too...at least if I don't have to try to make it to BH from the Heart of Orange at the peak of a weekday Rush Hour.


----------



## 18677 (Jan 4, 2006)

*Shameless plug*

You can buy Richard's book on the Classic Style website:


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Green Irish Tweed by Creed and New Mown Hay by Floris were CG's favorite scents.But I just talked to somebody at Acqua di Parma claiming that CG wore this scent, too. Anybody know anything about this? Or any opinions on the cologne itself?


----------



## Rubini (Jun 26, 2006)

richstyle said:


> Green Irish Tweed by Creed and New Mown Hay by Floris were CG's favorite scents.But I just talked to somebody at Acqua di Parma claiming that CG wore this scent, too. Anybody know anything about this? Or any opinions on the cologne itself?


I must admit, I don't know much about cologne, but until your book I had never heard of either New Mown Hay or Green Irish Tweed. Nice names. Do they still make these colognes, and if so, where does one obtain them?


----------



## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

Green Irish Tweed is produced by Creed and can be found at your local Nieman's but, at around $100. I'd suggest shopping around on the net. I think this place has the best price. It's quite a nice fragrance.
www.scentiments.com


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

*sign on*

The publisher is looking into Book Soup as a possible site. I shall keep you posted.... RT


----------



## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Rubini said:


> I must admit, I don't know much about cologne, but until your book I had never heard of either New Mown Hay or Green Irish Tweed. Nice names. Do they still make these colognes, and if so, where does one obtain them?


There is no currently produced Floris product called New Mown Hay, but GIT and Acqua di Parma are two of the world's great scents.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I think Carrol & Co. would be a fine venue.


----------



## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

richstyle said:


> Yes, they were friends in CG's later years. CG was one of RL's early childhood idols. They used to go to the track together and Grant admired his line. I have receipts from Polo for stuff CG bought for his daughter--riding clothes and such--that didn't make it into the book. Also letters. If we can pull of that book signing, I'll bring them and other interesting tidbits, a a funny letter from Woody Allen to CG, etc., etc.
> 
> The entire RL Polo line seems to have been inspired by CG or at least the Savile Row cut.


PRL "Grant" model (1995). Extended soft shoulder, 3 to 2 lapel, patch pockets, nipped waist, angled lower front edges, moderate side vents. Topcoat weight camelhair broken herringbone tweed. Influenced by SUSPICION?

















Earlier there was a PRL "Astaire" model suit/sport jacket. Astaire objected. The jacket style was renamed Polo IV.


----------



## bimmerzimmer (Jul 28, 2005)

I love this book. It's very interesting and does a lot to break down the essence of CG's style and approach to clothing. 

One think that sticks with me is a bit of an inconsistency however. On several instances it cites Grant as having a rather modest wardrobe and closet. Then on other occassions it mentions a storage area of 250 plus suits, 75-80 overcoats, etc. It mentions all the tailors and fine stores he shopped but then also mentions him professing to buy BB off the peg. So...I guess CG was as enigmatic as he was stylish.

Bimmerzimmer


----------



## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Rich,

I also love the book...it's written so well I have a hard time putting it down and the pictures are terrific and the style commentary very valuable. It would be great if you could do a book on Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. one day.

My favorite page so far is Page 29 where it talks to how engaging Cary was in conversation because he really was interested in what people cared about personally. This is something I have seen often in charismatic people.

If only this was more prevalent in today's society...


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

bimmerzimmer said:


> I love this book. It's very interesting and does a lot to break down the essence of CG's style and approach to clothing.
> 
> One think that sticks with me is a bit of an inconsistency however. On several instances it cites Grant as having a rather modest wardrobe and closet. Then on other occassions it mentions a storage area of 250 plus suits, 75-80 overcoats, etc. It mentions all the tailors and fine stores he shopped but then also mentions him professing to buy BB off the peg. So...I guess CG was as enigmatic as he was stylish.
> 
> Bimmerzimmer


CG can be contradictory. A modest WORKING wardrobe but he saved everything, cut the mother-of-pearl buttons off of his frayed old shirts and saved them. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

RT


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Artisan Fan said:


> Rich,
> 
> I also love the book...it's written so well I have a hard time putting it down and the pictures are terrific and the style commentary very valuable. It would be great if you could do a book on Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. one day.
> 
> ...


Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. would be a great subject. Now there was a guy who knew clothes.

As to pg. 29, I'm glad you got that. Style is more than suits and ties; it's how you behave, how you treat other people, etc. The great thing about writing the book was interviewing people who knew him. The energy level immediately went up. He had a knack when it came to making people feel good about themselves.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

jamgood said:


> PRL "Grant" model (1995). Extended soft shoulder, 3 to 2 lapel, patch pockets, nipped waist, angled lower front edges, moderate side vents. Topcoat weight camelhair broken herringbone tweed. Influenced by SUSPICION?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tell me more about the PRL "Astaire" model suit jacket if you can. Was it Astaire himself who objected or his estate?


----------



## alaric (May 23, 2005)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Artisan Fan* https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?p=400073#post400073
> _Rich,
> 
> ...


Rich,

Just to make extra work for you (should you choose to accept it...): I think the book should be a twofer, as DF, Sr. was every bit as stylish as Jr., if not more so. So, maybe a book on the Fairbanks clan. Just a thought, as I know how much authors *love *to have other peoples _*brilliant *_ideas thrust at 'em.:icon_smile_wink:

alaric


----------



## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

alaric said:


> DF, Sr. was every bit as stylish as Jr., if not more so.


Cary Grant idolized DF Sr. They had met briefly, shipboard on an Atlantic crossing when CG was Archie Leach, and DF Sr. treated him magnanimously. It surely must have impressed CG, a neophyte vaudeville performer, that the biggest star in the world was such an affable person as he adopted a like disposition when he became Cary Grant.

CG was also impressed by DF Sr's "healthy" suntan and worked to maintain such till the end.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

alaric said:


> Rich,
> 
> Just to make extra work for you (should you choose to accept it...): I think the book should be a twofer, as DF, Sr. was every bit as stylish as Jr., if not more so. So, maybe a book on the Fairbanks clan. Just a thought, as I know how much authors *love *to have other peoples _*brilliant *_ideas thrust at 'em.:icon_smile_wink:
> 
> alaric


I'm all over it--if I can get a publisher to agree with us. :icon_smile: Actually, it IS a brilliant idea because they both are significant in the development of men's style and the masculine ideal in the 20th century. Plus, there really isn't much written about them from this vantage point.


----------



## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Rich,

I notice in the photos that many of Cary's suits have a very nice drape which reminds me of Super 120s+ wool. Did Cary have any fabrics of that fineness back then or is it just lighter fabrics that are fooling me? I always thought the finer wools were a relatively recent innovation.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Artisan Fan said:


> Rich,
> 
> I notice in the photos that many of Cary's suits have a very nice drape which reminds me of Super 120s+ wool. Did Cary have any fabrics of that fineness back then or is it just lighter fabrics that are fooling me? I always thought the finer wools were a relatively recent innovation.


Interesting question because men of style did not have Super 120s or Super 320s available to them back in CG's heyday, so they deserve even more credit for maintaining their stylish look in the hot weather of H'wood. The other day it was near 100 degrees in Bev Hills. Yet they dressed well, often in tweeds, wools, etc., heavier fabrics that must've been murder in such weather.

By the late 1950s early sixties you had the tighter weaves (worsted wools with silk) like the suit CG is wearing in North by Northwest, but technology has surely made it more comfortable to dress well in all climates today.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Artisan Fan said:


> I notice in the photos that many of Cary's suits have a very nice drape which reminds me of Super 120s+ wool. Did Cary have any fabrics of that fineness back then or is it just lighter fabrics that are fooling me? I always thought the finer wools were a relatively recent innovation.


The heavier stuff drapes MUCH better than the lighter stuff. So RichT is right that Grant was not wearing Supers (certainly nothing over 80s) but this is a reason why his clothes draped so well, not an anomaly.

While it's true that lighter cloth is a more recent innovation, this did not improve performance in most instances but weakened it. In some instances, growers, weavers and (especially) spinners have been able to produce thin light yarns that ape (but do not equal) the resilency of the yarns. But that is a more recent innovation still, partly owing to breeding, partly to "high twist" spinning.

RichT is also right that back then, men just accepted that to be well attired meant, sometimes, to be a bit warm. You didn't eschew the coat, or wear tissue, just because it was hot. Standards and expectations, especially for movie stars, were higher.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

manton said:


> The heavier stuff drapes MUCH better than the lighter stuff. So RichT is right that Grant was not wearing Supers (certainly nothing over 80s) but this is a reason why his clothes draped so well, not an anomaly.
> 
> While it's true that lighter cloth is a more recent innovation, this did not improve performance in most instances but weakened it. In some instances, growers, weavers and (especially) spinners have been able to produce thin light yarns that ape (but do not equal) the resilency of the yarns. But that is a more recent innovation still, partly owing to breeding, partly to "high twist" spinning.
> 
> RichT is also right that back then, men just accepted that to be well attired meant, sometimes, to be a bit warm. You didn't eschew the coat, or wear tissue, just because it was hot. Standards and expectations, especially for movie stars, were higher.


So very true. I had to do some walking around in Los Angeles this week when it was literally close to 100 degrees in a full-on suit and tie and I gotta tell you I was wearing a light poplin cotton suit but I was sopping wet and hating life. I don't know how those cats pulled it off with such sweatless aplomb. I thought my admiration for them could not get any deeper, but it has. --RT


----------



## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

*Would Any Members Who've Read The Book Care To Post A Review At Amazon.com*

https://www.amazon.com/Cary-Grant-A...=pd_bbs_1/103-0416781-7123833?ie=UTF8&s=books


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Is there anything more to add to the review by the guy who insists that Grant was gay and in love with Randolph Scott? In any case, I just got the book today and look foward to going through it.


----------



## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

Amazon has packaged it with Manton's book for $36. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

manton said:


> Is there anything more to add to the review by the guy who insists that Grant was gay and in love with Randolph Scott? In any case, I just got the book today and look foward to going through it.


Yeah, dumbest review I've read. He doesn't like photos of CG in suits :crazy: - why buy the book then? His three Amazon reviews are on gay topics so he's clearly more interested in the sexual behavior of CG rather than his dress and is upset the book is not about the former.


----------



## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

manton said:


> Is there anything more to add to the review by the guy who insists that Grant was gay and in love with Randolph Scott?


Yes, RT seems to have ruffled some boa feathers.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

EL72 said:


> Amazon has packaged it with Manton's book for $36. :icon_smile_wink:


Merino wool sweaters. Love 'em but beware. The moths love 'em. Just chucked out a few of mine. I prefer cashmere. Cedar blocks and cedar sprays do the trick for cashmere but for some reason my merino wool garments got eaten alive.

And if you gonna buy cashmere or merino wool wait until Jan/Feb if you can when they're 80% off.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

richstyle said:


> So very true. I had to do some walking around in Los Angeles this week when it was literally close to 100 degrees in a full-on suit and tie and I gotta tell you I was wearing a light poplin cotton suit but I was sopping wet and hating life. I don't know how those cats pulled it off with such sweatless aplomb. I thought my admiration for them could not get any deeper, but it has. --RT


And I'll bet those heavier wools and tweeds traveled better than the super 120s. You could stuff them into a duffle bag if you had to, take them out, hang 'em and shake 'em and I'll bet they looked just great, an added benefit to their superior drape. Manton, do you agree?


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

EL72 said:


> Amazon has packaged it with Manton's book for $36. :icon_smile_wink:


A financially sound reason to purchase vast quantities for gifts on Christmas Day, Flag Day, Columbus Day, President's Day, Halloween, Bank Day, Boxing Day, and Martin Luther King Day, not to mention birthdays and anniversaries. :icon_smile_wink:

RT


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Tomasso said:


> Yes, RT seems to have ruffled some boa feathers.


You know, when I was writing the book the first thing people asked me was, "So, was he gay?" As if I was there in his bedroom every night with a flashlight observing his noctural behavior.

There are so many more interesting things about CG than his sexuality but people want to know, one way or the other. Why do you think that is? I talked to film critic Richard Schickel about it and he said that's because they all want him "on their team."

But there's just no convincing anecdotal or documentary evidence that he was gay. What is floating around out there are people who will tell you that, Oh, yeah, my grandmother's ex husband's third wife's second cousin's nephew's said that they had a liason. Ridiculous stuff like that.

However, I found it pretty easy to find women he dated or just hit on at the race track or at a party or just about anywhere.

I'll tell you something that wasn't in the book. He ticked off Hedda Hopper. 
She wanted to write his autobiography--desperately wanted to write it. When he made a deal with Joe Hyams to write an autobiographical piece for Ladies Home Journal, with which I am sure you are all familiar, it infuriated her, and then venegfully planted rumors of his alleged homosexuality; that's when they really started rolling. In her columns--internationally sydicated columns. You can actually trace it if you go back to them, a tedious but enlightening process.

But as CG said, once the cat's out of the bag there's not much you can do about it. But he fought back for the sake of his wife and kid, e.g. the Chevy Chase incident.

Anyway, the book has gotten superb reviews, it's selling, you guys like it, and if Manton likes it, well, that's all that matters. :icon_smile:


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Tomasso said:


> Yes, RT seems to have ruffled some boa feathers.


Good one!

The irony is--and stop me if I told you this--but GENRE, a gay magazine, is devoting a laudatory eight pages to it in November.


----------



## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

richstyle said:


> I talked to film critic Richard Schickel about it and he said that's because they all want him "on their team."
> :icon_smile:


Frankly... It makes more sense that both sides would prefer that he be gay.
If you're gay - He's Carey Grant for cryin out loud. Straight guys look at him and think WOW!
If you are straight... Now why in God's name would we want that guy fishing in the same pond as the rest of us? Forget that nonsense!

I asked Jill whether she'd still love me if Carey Grant appeared and asked her to run away with him. She said that she would still love me, remember me fondly and try to write on occasion.


----------



## Rubini (Jun 26, 2006)

manton said:


> The heavier stuff drapes MUCH better than the lighter stuff. So RichT is right that Grant was not wearing Supers (certainly nothing over 80s) but this is a reason why his clothes draped so well, not an anomaly.


Interesting that the heavier, old-fashioned stuff is better than the lighter, high-tech stuff. It makes sense, too. So if one were having a bespoke suit made, and wanted it to drape in the classic, old-school way that Grant's, Astaire's and Cooper's suits draped, what qualities should one look for in the fabric? Does anybody still make 80s wool? In terms of ounces, how much would the cloth in those classic suits have weighed?


----------



## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Rubini said:


> Interesting that the heavier, old-fashioned stuff is better than the lighter, high-tech stuff. It makes sense, too. So if one were having a bespoke suit made, and wanted it to drape in the classic, old-school way that Grant's, Astaire's and Cooper's suits draped, what qualities should one look for in the fabric? Does anybody still make 80s wool? In terms of ounces, how much would the cloth in those classic suits have weighed?


30's suits were commonly of 16 oz. wool, which is about as heavy as you can wear in a heated building without passing out from heat prostration. But 16 oz. cloth makes great odd trousers.

A heavy suit today is 13 oz., which provides decent drape without quite as much insulation. A good summer/spring suit in a breathable fresco or mohair of 10 oz will drape much better than an 8 oz. tropical worsted, and be cooler too.

The normal Savile Row suiting is Super 80's, but no-one bothers to indicate the number.

Your tailor will have books from Lesser et al with plenty of choices.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

richstyle said:


> I'll tell you something that wasn't in the book. He ticked off Hedda Hopper.
> She wanted to write his autobiography--desperately wanted to write it. When he made a deal with Joe Hyams to write an autobiographical piece for Ladies Home Journal, with which I am sure you are all familiar, it infuriated her, and then venegfully planted rumors of his alleged homosexuality; that's when they really started rolling. In her columns--internationally sydicated columns. You can actually trace it if you go back to them, a tedious but enlightening process.
> 
> :


As a professional editor, I must point out that the only person who could possibly have written Cary Grant's autobiography was CG himself. Hedda Hopper might well have wanted to write his biography but not his autobiography.


----------



## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

JLibourel said:


> As a professional editor


Wouldn't it be wonderful to have someone edit every missive sent, though privacy would become an issue.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Tomasso said:


> Wouldn't it be wonderful to have someone edit every missive sent, though privacy would become an issue.


Oh Lord, I make plenty of typos in my own post. Sometimes I correct 'em, sometimes I don't bother.


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

JLibourel said:


> As a professional editor, I must point out that the only person who could possibly have written Cary Grant's autobiography was CG himself. Hedda Hopper might well have wanted to write his biography but not his autobiography.


Ghost writers write other people's autobiographies all the time, sometimes uncredited, sometimes credited. I've written a few myself, uncredited.


----------



## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

I just finished reading my copy. Thank your for writing this excellent piece of work.

M8


----------



## richstyle (Aug 14, 2006)

Martinis at 8 said:


> I just finished reading my copy. Thank your for writing this excellent piece of work.
> 
> M8


Thanks you, Martinis. Glad you enjoyed it.


----------



## DEG (Jan 29, 2005)

*Welcome richstyle*



richstyle said:


> I am the author of Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style, Foreword by Giorgio Armani, Afterword by Michael Kors, due out Sept. 4th. It's the first full-length biography of Cary Grant that traces his evolution as a style icon.
> 
> Any Cary Grant style fans out there?


Any number of us are. He is a regular topic and a reference source around here. I have seen all of his films and loved every one.

Just ordered your book. Congratualtions on its publication!

Best wishes!


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

richstyle said:


> Very sharp observation about CG's omission of pocket squares-particularly odd for a man who claimed to have invented or popularized the square version.


Bit late to the party - I guess '50s style to me mean 1850s! Pity CG never wore frock coats :icon_smile: . But reading through this thread, which I had hitherto ignored, I couldn't help but be struck by the claim to having invented the pocket square:

Here Oscar Wilde flies in the face of convention to sport one - purists considered it bad form for frock coats to have any external pockets whatsoever.

Still, I might check this book out regardless.


----------



## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

Rich, thank you for the book ... and I'm glad to see so many AAAC members are recommending it.

Nothing against Boyer ... but after the Fred Astaire book, I avoided buying Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style. I assumed it would be similarly lacking.

As one forum member seems to like to say ... wrong again!

When it comes to content, _Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style_ is the anthesis of _Fred Astaire Style_. Astaire deserves better. Grant deserves it and got it!

_______________________________________________________________________


manton said:


> The heavier stuff drapes MUCH better than the lighter stuff. So RichT is right that Grant was not wearing Supers (certainly nothing over 80s) but this is a reason why his clothes draped so well, not an anomaly.


The first and only "super 120s" I had tailored never gave the drape of my Anderson & Sheppard clothing (all 80s or heavier). Of course the Bay Area climate lends itself to wearing heavier cloth. 
_______________________________________________________________________


Sator said:


> Here Oscar Wilde flies in the face of convention to sport one - purists considered it bad form for frock coats to have any external pockets whatsoever.


Sator, that is not a pocket square ... it is my handkerchief which -- after wiping my tears -- I angrily stuffed into Mr. Wilde's pocket once he determined that I would be allowed to age. :icon_smile_wink:

--Dorian

Edited after Sator's post below: I hadn't stopped to think about why that pocket was there. At the time I was far too upset to concern myself with propriety.


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

RSS said:


> Sator, that is not a pocket square ... it is my handkerchief which -- after wiping my tears -- I angrily stuffed into Mr. Wilde's pocket after he determined that I would be allowed to age. :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> --Dorian


But the fact remains that it is indeed most remarkable that you ever found a chest pocket at all to stuff your hanky into. Hmm... had you a chance to ask what manner of foppery Mr Wilde might have been imitating to inspire him to bespeak his frock coat with such an artifice? Dear oh dear - what would the late HRH Victoria have said???

Lo and behold here my good Sir: did Herr Johann Strauss sport a chest pocket upon his frock coat?


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Richard, this question is only tangentially related to style and not at all related to fashion, but in the few personal interviews I've seen of CG his world-famous accent was almost entirely missing, and some credible reports over the years claimed the accent was either entirely fake or highly exaggerated by CG. Did you happen to discuss this topic with anyone while researching or writing your book?


----------



## LaoHu (Sep 16, 2006)

Do my eyes deceive me or is OW sporting single link cuffs?


----------



## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^ Jeremy Brett wears them a lot as Sherlock Holmes in the BBC series, which would have been set in the same period.


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Ditto for Gabriele D'Annunzio from the same period:


----------

