# The VA Tech Shooting



## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

As have many of you, I have listened and watched this tragic event unfold. Have just had to remove an extremely inappropriate comment on the Fashion Forum I know that at some point a thread will start over here.

Families are grieving. The country is in shock. Hearts are sad ... very sad.

When you post about this tragedy please remember those things.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

As a Virginia Tech alumnus, it was surreal watching the events unfold on the intenert (no TV at work). I can only hope that the university will be able to heal in time, but this will not be an easy task.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> As have many of you, I have listened and watched this tragic event unfold. Have just had to remove an extremely inappropriate comment on the Fashion Forum I know that at some point a thread will start over here.
> 
> Families are grieving. The country is in shock. Hearts are sad ... very sad.
> 
> When you post about this tragedy please remember those things.


I would think any comment other than compassion, extreme sadness and prayers for those who have lost friends, family, loved ones would be inapproriate at this time of national tragedy.


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## Desk Jockey (Aug 19, 2005)

I almost went there.

I'm an RA at my current future alma mater and can't imagine what it must have been like for them. We, during training for the Res Life dept, didn't even broach the subject.


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

StevenRocks said:


> As a Virginia Tech alumnus, it was surreal watching the events unfold on the intenert (no TV at work). I can only hope that the university will be able to heal in time, but this will not be an easy task.


I live in Houston and I attended Rice U., and not the University of Texas in Austin.

But I remember the UT tower shooting of 1966 by Charles Whitman, in Austin, Tx.. And many of my friends went to UT in the later 1960's, when that incident occurred.

It was difficult and took a long time, but the University of Texas at Austin has come back to be a bigger and greater institution.

It will take time, but I'm sure the same will happen at VT!


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> As have many of you, I have listened and watched this tragic event unfold. Have just had to remove an extremely inappropriate comment on the Fashion Forum I know that at some point a thread will start over here.
> 
> Families are grieving. The country is in shock. Hearts are sad ... very sad.
> 
> When you post about this tragedy please remember those things.


One had already started. It was appropriate. I can't imagine anyone here would be indelicate.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=68107


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

ksinc said:


> One had already started. It was appropriate. I can't imagine anyone here would be indelicate.
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=68107


I agree. I deleted the post and the references to it on the FF.


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## wj94 (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm a current VT student. I had class this morning in the building next to where the shootings took place at the same time they occurred. Luckily, I decided to skip class this morning. Unfortunately, one of the students killed was my friend's little sister. RIP Reema, my thoughts and prayers are with your family.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

WJ94 you need to be with your people for now.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

I feel like I felt when those poor Amish schoolchildren were murdered in similar fashion. Terrible.

Another strong reminder that evil and wickedness are alive and well in the world, even in our relatively comfortable corner of it.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

I have just read of Professor Librescu's heroic fate. It is consoling (I suppose that is the right word) to see that even in such horrid circumstances, some light of selfless, human virtue shined through. He should be remembered with great honor.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> I have just read of Professor Librescu's heroic fate. It is consoling (I suppose that is the right word) to see that even in such horrid circumstances, some light of selfless, human virtue shined through. He should be remembered with great honor.


Indeed. That man is real a hero.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

ksinc said:


> Indeed. That man is real a hero.


I think so too.

If your going to die anyway, you might as well throw some chairs, books, tables, whatever is available running to the person- afterall you might knock the gun/s out of his/her hand or knock the person unconcious. If he had been hit in the crotch by a bouncing chair he probably would have shot himself in the leg or both legs. Of course, in real life, none of us know what we would do, but thinking about it now and then there might have been a different out come, because thinking helps prepare.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

WA,

I've thought about all of that, too. Why not attack the shooter? But, as you point out, none of us knows how he would react. I've never seen a classmate's head blown open. I would imagine that's pretty paralyzing. From the news accounts, I gather the shooter had two guns, one of which was a Glock 9mm. Depending on the size of his clips, he may not have even reloaded, or reloaded only once, during the entire second incident. That doesn't leave much time to think. I'd like to think I'd have taken the chance, but, I have to admit, I really don't know that I would have. Perhaps someone other than the professor even did. We just don't know yet. I'm just grateful that one man found the instantaneous courage to stand in defense of others knowing what was coming his way. Whatever awards the governments of the US, Israel and Rumania may have for civilian bravery, I hope he get all of them.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

JOHN 15:13

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

Professor Liviu Librescu,an engineering science and mechanics lecturer who survived the Holocaust, blocked the door of his classroom with his body to protect those inside.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

rnoldh said:


> I live in Houston and I attended Rice U., and not the University of Texas in Austin.
> 
> But I remember the UT tower shooting of 1966 by Charles Whitman, in Austin, Tx.. And many of my friends went to UT in the later 1960's, when that incident occurred.
> 
> ...


I spent a year at the University of Texas at Austin a couple of years after the shooting. A number of people I knew had been under fire from Charlie, but nobody seemed unduly traumatized by the event.

Ya gotta love the Texans! After Whitman opened up, a lot of the students rushed home, got their rifles and returned his fire. This did much good, for it forced him to take cover behind the parapet, and he could only shoot through a few slits in the parapet. This probably greatly reduced the number of casualties. As I recall, the incident went on for about an hour before the cops stormed the deck and killed Whitman. If I remember the details aright, he took a couple of charges of 00 in the torso before he went down--a tough customer. Has any Eagle Scout ever come to a worse end?


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> WA,
> 
> I've thought about all of that, too. Why not attack the shooter? But, as you point out, none of us knows how he would react. I've never seen a classmate's head blown open. .


This article gives a good description of just how fast it all happened. For a number of people realizing what was really going on came too late. Attacking the shooter seems not very feasible when you read this:


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

JLibourel said:


> I spent a year at the University of Texas at Austin a couple of years after the shooting. A number of people I knew had been under fire from Charlie, but nobody seemed unduly traumatized by the event.
> 
> Ya gotta love the Texans! After Whitman opened up, a lot of the students rushed home, got their rifles and returned his fire. This did much good, for it forced him to take cover behind the parapet, and he could only shoot through a few slits in the parapet. This probably greatly reduced the number of casualties. As I recall, the incident went on for about an hour before the cops stormed the deck and killed Whitman. If I remember the details aright, he took a couple of charges of 00 in the torso before he went down--a tough customer. Has any Eagle Scout ever come to a worse end?


He should have come to a tougher ending. I am an Eagle Scout, J and deeply offended by your comments.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Duck said:


> He should have come to a tougher ending. I am an Eagle Scout, J and deeply offended by your comments.


What are you "deeply offended" about? My remark was to the effect that was the worst thing I had ever heard of an Eagle Scout doing. Obviously, this kind of behavior is utterly atypical of Eagle Scouts. If I had said that Whitman's crimes were about what you could expect from an Eagle Scout, then you might have cause to take umbrage, but such a comment would be so ridiculous that a rational man would assume I was being facetious.

"Deeply offended"--so many people are so damn prickly and hypersensitive in these fora!


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

Duck said:


> He should have come to a tougher ending. I am an Eagle Scout, J and deeply offended by your comments.


Oh, PLEASE. I will not bow to the Tyranny of the Offended. I am, in fact, offended by The Offended. Deeply offended, in fact.


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## TPS (Aug 21, 2006)

As a foreigner who studied in a US university I could not help but to notice the large number of international students and teachers among the victims. There were people quite literally from around the world, including of course the shooter himself.

I have to admit I was somewhat disappointed to see this sentence in a recent AP report on the commemoration proceedings in Blacksburg, VA:

"The mourners gathered in front of stone memorials, each adorned with a basket of tulips and an American flag. There were 33 stones - one for each victim and Cho."

Why the American flag? I don't intend to hurt anyone's sensibilities here, but I think something like a country's flag is highly symbolic and should therefore be treated with utmost seriousness (similar to using the cross, the star of David, etc, on a grave). Honouring non-Americans with the American flag strikes me as slightly ignorant. It almost makes me think that the organisers decided to use the same flag for each memorial to create a nice "patriotic" visual impact.

Maybe I just get stuck on details too much, but I wasn't too impressed by this diplomatic gaffe.

Anyway, rest in peace.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I am an immigrant. The VT massacre is a moment of stupendous sorry for VT and Virginia, the country, and much of the world. I think by draping all the caskets with the US flag, they were demonstrating the inclusive nature of the best of US society. Nothing PC, just a simple statement that with a lot of hard work and some luck, all your dreams can come true in this country and this country welcomes all with big dreams.

Something tells me if non-citizens had *not* be covered in a US flag, someone would have complained about that too.

Let us all grieve in peace and honour the dead.


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## TPS (Aug 21, 2006)

Wayfarer, I understand your opinion and sentiment but I still differ on this matter. Simply because someone wanted to get a good education in an American university does not mean that they wanted to be Americans or be remembered as Americans. Many immigrants may feel this way because they consciously strive to attain US citizenship, but I would say the vast majority of international students in US universities are not there for the purposes of immigration, but just for studying and getting a degree. If we really have to use national symbols for grieving the victims (something I would question in the first place), I think it would be best to use the correct national symbols.

Then again, you may be right; had different flags been used for different victims, some might have felt that to be disrespectful as well. These issues are never simple and there are always many opinions.

A small correction; the AP article was referring to memorial stones, not actual burial caskets. I would imagine that the remains of the international victims were repatriated and buried according to local traditions.

Just to make it clear, I don't hate the US or Americans, far from it, but in cases like this I disagree with the use of one country's symbol to honour all victims, regardless of nationality. Just as a purely hypothetical exercise, if this incident had happened in Germany, would all the victims be honoured with a German flag, even if they were American, Canadian, Peruvian, etc?

Perhaps I've already said too much. As I said, I tend to get stuck on details.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

Virginia Tech has a healthy and active international community. I don't think the use of the American flag suggested anything against the home countries of the victims.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Anent this matter of the flags, if I were killed in a foreign land, I would much prefer to be covered with Old Glory or no flag at all than the flag of a foreign nation.


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> When you post about this tragedy please remember those things.


With due respect, this wasn't a tragedy. It was a *crime*. Calling it a "tragedy" implies that it was a random act, a force of nature such as a hurricane or blizzard, a freak accident. In fact, it was a crime on the magnitude of the 9/11 terrorists and Islamic suicide bombers. It was easily preventable and easily dealt with. It is a type of crime that Americans and other Westerners must arm ourselves against in future.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Old Brompton said:


> With due respect, this wasn't a tragedy. It was a *crime*. Calling it a "tragedy" implies that it was a random act, a force of nature such as a hurricane or blizzard, a freak accident. In fact, it was a crime on the magnitude of the 9/11 terrorists and Islamic suicide bombers. It was easily preventable and easily dealt with. It is a type of crime that Americans and other Westerners must arm ourselves against in future.


Old Brompton, sometimes you amaze me. Is there some reason that "crime" and "tragedy" have become mutually exclusive? Yes, the shooter committed a crime. The victims suffered in the tragedy.

And to reiterate my comment from which you garnered your talking point, is this *really* the thread to debate semantics?


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

In a Arizona graveyard the mortal remains of a few, never repatriated Kreigsmariners from WW2 rest nearly forgotten. During their wartime imprisonment a crewmember revealed information about U-boat operations for favours. His fellow crewmen learned of this and killed him after a trial under german Kriegsmarine regulations. Our military tried them and pronounced guilty verdics with death by hanging. The bodies were interred, facing in the wrong direction without markers. After the war a few were eventualy claimed by family and returned to Germany. The rest lie forgotten, except somebody quietly places small flags of the modern german state and flowers on them. I know who the person is. It would suprise a lot of folks if not a confidentiality. Many public figures have been honoured by the emblems of other nations. I attended the funeral so many years ago of a la Fayette Escadrille veteran. My grandfather was a pallbearer. There were TWO flags on the coffin, ours and the french tricolour. Grandfather supervised the rifle salute from 03 Springfields, and presented the flags alongside the French Consul to the family. People did their best at VT.


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