# Shell Cordovan? How can you tell



## spielerman (Jul 21, 2007)

Are these shoes shell cordovan? How old? How does one tell?

javascript:history.go(-1)


----------



## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Don't know how old (but they have not made shoes with heels like those in at least 15 years, I think). Definitely cordovan. You can tell from the dark luster and from the creasing.


----------



## trolperft (Feb 7, 2007)

qwerty said:


> Don't know how old (but they have not made shoes with heels like those in at least 15 years, I think).


That is all we can know about their age. I tried to check how old my Florsheim
shoes are exactly before. But Florsheim(Weyco Group) no longer has a record about their old shoes.


----------



## clemsontiger (Jun 9, 2007)

No matter their age or material, they're good looking shoes. Wear them proudly.


----------



## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

Agree with qwerty that the shoes are shell


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

Being a first time shell owner, and having many many many many Calf shoes, and one shell... Yes. those are definitely shell. 

Don't ask me how I know... I just know!


----------



## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Nice SHELL CORDOVAN shoes.

How do I know? They look exactly like my shell cordovan Florsheim longwings.


----------



## Luis-F-S (Apr 6, 2009)

Probably 20-25 yo; I have the same shoe by Hanover.


----------



## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Those are shell. The creasing is the easiest way to tell. There is no micro-creasing--or spiderwebbing--like you see with calf. You'll also often see some whitish waxy buildup in the creases with shell. It has the the right sheen to it (although sometimes corrected grain leather will look similar). You can see a little bit in that picture, but on shell shoes the lacing holes will have a crimped look to them. Finally, shell has a certain smell, although that's not readily apparent in a picture.

Nice shoes. Classics.


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

AlanC said:


> Those are shell. The creasing is the easiest way to tell. There is no micro-creasing--or spiderwebbing--like you see with calf. You'll also often see some whitish waxy buildup in the creases with shell. It has the the right sheen to it (although sometimes corrected grain leather will look similar). You can see a little bit in that picture, but on shell shoes the lacing holes will have a crimped look to them. Finally, shell has a certain smell, although that's not readily apparent in a picture.
> 
> Nice shoes. Classics.


This probably falls into "I don't want to know" territory, but I have wondered whether the smell is the actual horse or is it the particular dyes used to treat the leather.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Actually, much of the nose of the leather, comes from the chemicals used in the tanning of the hides/shells.


----------



## nhorween (Jun 20, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Actually, much of the nose of the leather, comes from the chemicals used in the tanning of the hides/shells.


That's correct - most of what you're smelling in the shells is the blend of oils/waxes/fats that are either rubbed on or impregnated into the skin. The method of vegetable tanning yields a completely different smell than other methods, as the actual end result is achieved by "vegetable liquours" (tannins derived from sources such as tree barks).

Great shoes!


----------



## jht3 (Jul 8, 2009)

i have the same shoes and i thought mine looked nice for being so old, but yours blow mine away.

what is the model number stamped inside?


----------



## Bernard T. McManus (Sep 23, 2009)

trolperft said:


> But Florsheim(Weyco Group) no longer has a record about their old shoes.




Florsheim was once a great shoe company.


----------



## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

there is a means of dating Florsheims that were made in the US in the 70's to the mid-80's based on the two letter code inside the shoe. I believe the first letter corresponds to the last year of the date--but please search here and on Style Forum for the original post. 60's florsheims were apparently made in a different factory and did not use this code--post 80's florsheim's you don't have. It is interesting to see which of your vintage Imperials is older--and sometimes surprising.


----------



## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Yes, shell longwings. They also produced shell wingtips which were not "longwings".The long line of broughing which is parallel to the sole, identifies the longwing.


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Actually, much of the nose of the leather, comes from the chemicals used in the tanning of the hides/shells.





nhorween said:


> That's correct - most of what you're smelling in the shells is the blend of oils/waxes/fats that are either rubbed on or impregnated into the skin. The method of vegetable tanning yields a completely different smell than other methods, as the actual end result is achieved by "vegetable liquours" (tannins derived from sources such as tree barks).
> 
> Great shoes!


Thanks. Interesting and ... reassuring.


----------



## Catch-22 (Jun 26, 2009)

that Patina is called "Deep Bruise" and can only be duplicated with many, many years of both beign neglect and occasional care. In other words.....that color is PRICELESS.

Enjoy with the air of superiority they impart to the wearer.


----------



## OneEyeMan (Aug 23, 2009)

Beautiful shoes Spielerman.
I'll bet they're really comfy too.
Lenny


----------



## emptym (Feb 22, 2008)

Very nice shoes. Certainly shell imo.

In addition to the things mentioned, shell has kind of a "plump" look to me.


----------



## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

The late Justice Potter Stewart, die-hard Reds fan and trad icon himself, once quipped in an opinion on pornography and obscentiy, "I know it when I see it." Most shell afficionados would probably make the same profer. My comment would be, I do not believe you colud find any other type of leather which would show so few signs of aging after so many years. Look atthe leather, it shows almost no signs of wear. I have a shell watch band on an old Breitling and it is completely unscathed after extensive wear. As a shoe salesman once said to me, "you will love the horse, it wears very well." Enjoy the shoes.


----------



## swischalet (Dec 12, 2008)

Can somebody tell me if these are shell cordovan? I think they are but I don't have any experience with cordovan. Thanks.


----------



## tonylumpkin (Jun 12, 2007)

Its a little tough to tell from those pictures, but I'd say they may be. With Allen Edmonds they give you an additional clue to look for...AEs shell cordovan shoes have combination heel lifts, while their calf shoes have all rubber lifts. So, if you think the heels are original, you can consider that as well.



swischalet said:


> Can somebody tell me if these are shell cordovan? I think they are but I don't have any experience with cordovan. Thanks.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I say it is going by the black laces and black sole. They put a black soles on their burgundy shells over at AE.


----------



## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

AE has also done some Polished Cobbler Leathers (corrected grain high shine) in the MacNeil as well like the black ones currently available. Judging from the insoles hose look fairly new and there is no real depth of color. I'd guess polished cobbler.


----------



## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

swischalet said:


> Can somebody tell me if these are shell cordovan? I think they are but I don't have any experience with cordovan. Thanks.


I do not believe these are shell. I have a number of reasons but simply the color does not appear correct. (It would be best if you could get a side view.) Check out these Sanfords--which are not shell--the color is identical and apparently so is the leather.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=100074&highlight=recraft


----------



## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

They look like AE McNeils. If they are, they only come in black polished cobler or burgundy shell cordovan. -> 

If I were part of the guessing game, I would say shell also, but it is hard to tell without a bit more detail in the picture. The give away seems to be the creases, and the lack of microwebs.

Mattdeckard, looking at the AE website, I see plenty of burgundy calf with black sole dressing. Taking a look at my shoe rack, even my Alden tassels have black sole dressing. Take a look at the Randolph's that comes in 5 different colors and their sole dressings.


----------



## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Nerev said:


> They look like AE McNeils. If they are, they only come in black polished cobler or burgundy shell cordovan. ->
> 
> If I were part of the guessing game, I would say shell also, but it is hard to tell without a bit more detail in the picture. The give away seems to be the creases, and the lack of microwebs.
> 
> Mattdeckard, looking at the AE website, I see plenty of burgundy calf with black sole dressing. Taking a look at my shoe rack, even my Alden tassels have black sole dressing. Take a look at the Randolph's that comes in 5 different colors and their sole dressings.


Guys, when in doubt check the catalogues: https://issuu.com/search?q=allen+edmonds&cr=all&lan=en&dsp=text&start=30&num=10&st=document

Nerev you can tell from the footbeds the shoes are several years old--natural leather vs. the current black. A quick persual of the catalogues shows you that AE made burgundy polish cobler as late as 1998-1999. The only true ways to tell if they are shell is to check for the following: does the leather of the shoe appear to have tiny pin size peaks to it. This is where the hair of the horse was actually removed. When they finish shell, unlike calf, they clean both sides (skin it really) and the horse hairs leave actual peak marks. They are impercetible to your eye standing up but can be seen when viewed up close.


----------



## speedmaster (May 27, 2008)

Two thoughts ...

1. I think they are shell.

2. They look great!! ;-)


----------



## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Still don't think they are shell but do you have pics of the soles? That may help if they are original.


----------



## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

I vote no - but still nice


----------



## brussell (Jun 15, 2005)

I believe those are MaCallisters. I had a pair once and they were CG.

Brad


----------



## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

gman-17 said:


> Guys, when in doubt check the catalogues: https://issuu.com/search?q=allen+edmonds&cr=all&lan=en&dsp=text&start=30&num=10&st=document
> 
> Nerev you can tell from the footbeds the shoes are several years old--natural leather vs. the current black. A quick persual of the catalogues shows you that AE made burgundy polish cobler as late as 1998-1999. The only true ways to tell if they are shell is to check for the following: does the leather of the shoe appear to have tiny pin size peaks to it. This is where the hair of the horse was actually removed. When they finish shell, unlike calf, they clean both sides (skin it really) and the horse hairs leave actual peak marks. They are impercetible to your eye standing up but can be seen when viewed up close.


You are right, I should have looked at the catalogues.


----------



## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Nerev said:


> You are right, I should have looked at the catalogues.


Yes but I didn't mean that to come off as it might have read. I was trying to be informative not a butt head.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I guess I was wrong earlier. Without the patina and with the wrinkles, the laces and sole don't matter. It probably is polished cobbler.

No patina whatsoever and a more plasticine wrinkling like you get from polished cobbler could mean it's polished cobbler. PC is now my vote.



my shells new


----------



## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

chacend said:


> AE has also done some Polished Cobbler Leathers (corrected grain high shine) in the MacNeil as well like the black ones currently available. Judging from the insoles hose look fairly new and there is no real depth of color. I'd guess polished cobbler.


I agree. The creasing, especially on the left shoe, looks odd; certainly more like CG than shell. A picture of the heel would be conclusive, though.


----------



## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

I picked up a pair of older AE Strands that looked like unkempt shell at very first, but for the all the reasons listed here, they turned out to be polished cobbler. Complicating the matter was a sole that looked partially eaten and an aftermarket heel. PC certainly can look like shell.


----------

