# Forget chinos, what about everyday WOOL pants?



## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Though I'm as guilty as anyone, we keep hashing out the perfect chino ad nauseum.

What about everyday wool pants, appropriate for the city, and winter?

What's everyone wearing?


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## unmodern (Aug 10, 2009)

Funny you should ask, I just bought Riviera (Made in Canada) grey flannels from STP on mega-discount. List price $265, but I scored them in my size for $80 shipped. Had them hemmed and I'm really loving the slightly more formal feel! They are just the perfect weight, too, not too warm for overheated libraries/offices, but a bit warmer than chinos for the really nippy days. I can highly recommend them, even at the more usual sale price (~$150, plus the 20% off discounts that float around occasionally).


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

The quality may have changed since I bought and wore them often, but Lands End Year'rounders were a good choice for "everyday" wear a few years ago. The Tailored Fit version seemed quite similar in cut to Bills M3 - at least on my short, athletic body.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I have several:

1. Berle flannels. Got them from Huge Store (.com) several years ago.

2. Lands End Year-Rounders, in various colors and permutations. In LE-speak, "Tailored Fit" means "less huge."

3. Bill's wool khaki-colored pants, eBayed.

4. Orvis flannels, which are okay but nothing to write home about.

5. Several pairs of older LL Bean flannels, which were something to write home about.

6. Assorted really thick wool pants, for hunting, skiing, fishing and doing other ill-advised things outside in the winter when sane peopler are inside

7. Lambourne moleskins, which aren't wool, but are certainly warm.

8. And winding up this dissertation, I took a shot at LL bean's "washable wool flannel" pants in olive from the sale section of the website. They arrived yesterday and they are similar in heft and fit to the old ones I liked. As to this idea of chucking them in the washer, we'll see.

https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/65708?feat=502702-GN2&page=washable-wool-flannel-pants


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Except for a few incidental bargains I took advantage of on STP, the only "wool pants" I've been buying for the past five years, or so, have been BB's wool gaberdines. They fit well, look good, are reasonably durable and are nicely priced. Hard to beat all that!


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Hertling makes most of the pants for JPress, OConnells, Norman Hilton among others. Impeccable.

Brooks have been pretty reliable too.


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

I'll second the LLBean offerings. I've gotten 3 pair of the "Town and Field" flannels over the past few years and I really like them.


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

Not cheap at $190 unfinished, but the nicest flannels I have worn are the made in the US lambswool flannels from Howard Yount:
https://www.howardyount.com/collections/wool-pants

Yount has some trousers made in Italy (tighter cut) while the American-made ones are more loose - you have to check each item to see the origin. Click the sizing chart on each item for extensive measurements of the waist, leg, etc. If you need only one good pair of pants, these will do the job.

Personally, I don't care for the LE year'rounders at all - I think the material feels bad and their dark charcoal is more of a mid-gray. I also am not so fond of Beans' recent dress trousers, although I have not tried this year's iteration yet so I will be interested in hearing Patrick's opinions on these. In my experience Beans changes things up every year, so if you find something you really like I would highly advise buying multiples ASAP before they change suppliers/styles for the next year.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

I actually find that finding decent wool dress trousers is easier than finding good chinos. I there's something about wool, or wool blends, that is simply more forgiving than hard cotton.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Dr. D said:


> I also am not so fond of Beans' recent dress trousers, although I have not tried this year's iteration yet so I will be interested in hearing Patrick's opinions on these. In my experience Beans changes things up every year, so if you find something you really like I would highly advise buying multiples ASAP before they change suppliers/styles for the next year.


This has been my experience - and practice - as well.

I'll post something more definitive on the Bean pants - with photos - later this week.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

unmodern said:


> Funny you should ask, I just bought Riviera (Made in Canada) grey flannels from STP on mega-discount. List price $265, but I scored them in my size for $80 shipped. Had them hemmed and I'm really loving the slightly more formal feel! They are just the perfect weight, too, not too warm for overheated libraries/offices, but a bit warmer than chinos for the really nippy days. I can highly recommend them, even at the more usual sale price (~$150, plus the 20% off discounts that float around occasionally).


Another vote for Riviera, a very well made and comfortable pair of trousers.

About LLBean, my wool trou are very satisfactory, but they do tend to change year to year. Also, don't be optimistic about your waistline: they sew them with NO extra material to let out


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks for the Riviera tip! Sadly none in my size... Thanks to all for the other info too.

I haven't bothered with LE or LLB because of consistency issues. For example, phyrpowr says his LLB are snug w/ no extra to let out, while my LLB chinos/shorts are inches over nominal size. The bottom line is, I'm never completely happy with them, so they go back or sit unworn -- money wasted that could have gone toward something better.

I'm tempted to drop by JPress today for some flannels, but even on sale, Jiminy Christmas...


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I have several pairs of gray flannels from Polo, BB, Incotex, and Corbin, but the ones I wear most often are my LL Bean signature flannels that cost me all of $15.

They're a much lighter gray, which to me is more casual, they're a bit thicker, which is nice in the cold and they didn't cost much, so I don't worry about ruining them by wearing the out on a walk, or to a dive-y bar.

For whatever reason, the thickness and texture work really well with everything from a chamois cloth shirt to a tweed jacket and tie.

I'm not sure if it's what you're asking, but to me they're the a wool pant equivalent of khakis in that I wear them the same way.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I have several pairs of gray flannels from Polo, BB, Incotex, and Corbin, but the ones I wear most often are my LL Bean signature flannels that cost me all of $15.
> 
> They're a much lighter gray, which to me is more casual, they're a bit thicker, which is nice in the cold and they didn't cost much, so I don't worry about ruining them by wearing the out on a walk, or to a dive-y bar.
> 
> ...


That's one thing I'm asking, so yes. Thanks!

BTW no JPress visit today.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

I have some US made Corbin gabardines from STP that have an ideal cut as well as being very durable so far. Also, they cost about 1/100th of the usual prices at Press, BB, and OC's.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I still haven't found my perfect pair, but for ~$100 J Crew's classic fit isn't bad at all. I should probably pick up another pair, actually. The weight is good for my "winters"


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## jeffdeist (Feb 7, 2006)

Sadly Brooks Brothers appears to have discontinued their Loro Piana tropical weight wool dress pants. They are an excellent alternative to chinos.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Another vote for Hertlings. O"Connells has a terrific selection, including some wonderful whipcords. Also, a vote for Riviera, from STP (never seen them anywhere else), particularly their lightweight gab; and for heavyweight flannels, Hiltl, a German company, are my all-time favorites, which can be had for a good price at STP from time to time.


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## Semper Jeep (Oct 11, 2011)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I have several pairs of gray flannels from Polo, BB, Incotex, and Corbin, but the ones I wear most often are my LL Bean signature flannels that cost me all of $15.
> 
> They're a much lighter gray, which to me is more casual, they're a bit thicker, which is nice in the cold and they didn't cost much, so I don't worry about ruining them by wearing the out on a walk, or to a dive-y bar...


I have the LL Bean Signature flannels, and while mine cost me a bit more than $15, I have to agree that they are pretty good. I bought them in navy and they were my first purchase from the Signature Line and I was impressed enough to immediately turn around and order the grey as well. I have had mine about two years now and they get worn quite often in the fall and winter. I also have a few different shades of flannels from Brooks Brothers but the LL Bean ones feel a bit more rough and seem to be more versatile when I want to wear them with something more casual than what I can get away with the BB ones.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

godan said:


> The quality may have changed since I bought and wore them often, but Lands End Year'rounders were a good choice for "everyday" wear a few years ago. The Tailored Fit version seemed quite similar in cut to Bills M3 - at least on my short, athletic body.


LE Tailored Fit are much better done than Bills M3.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Dr. D said:


> Not cheap at $190 unfinished, but the nicest flannels I have worn are the made in the US lambswool flannels from Howard Yount:
> https://www.howardyount.com/collections/wool-pants
> 
> Yount has some trousers made in Italy (tighter cut) while the American-made ones are more loose - you have to check each item to see the origin. Click the sizing chart on each item for extensive measurements of the waist, leg, etc. If you need only one good pair of pants, these will do the job.
> ...


These look interesting. How do you find the rise on these pants?


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

I find the US-made flannels to be comfortable but not loose. The measurements posted are accurate and they seem to be mid-rise to me, not low nor high. But to be honest I am not really that picky about rise as long as it isn't drastically low-cut.

There is a dedicated thread on styleforum with a lot of comments and comparisons , including many from the proprietor himself. Here is his description:
*Lambswool flannel, 12 oz, pants made in America - similar to the VBC s120s, though made by a different Italian mill. The primary difference here is in cut. Our American made pants are a little higher rise, and a bit more forgiving in the thighs, hip, and seat. While customers occasionally size up in the Italian pants, I don't expect that to happen much in the American pants. These are extremely well made and I'm very proud of them. As for the fabric, we're now carrying it in seven colors, and the depth and range of the color in each pair is really gorgeous. Just really rich shades.*

And here is some more info with some fit pics:


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Thanks. I saw the measurments, but I always have a hard time figuring out what the number means for rise, a subjective assessment is helpful.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

It's a higher midrise, IMO. Maybe .5"-1.5" below navel, depending on how your built.


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## Nick888 (Mar 8, 2012)

A nice wool flannnel trousers from Land's End is highly recommended.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

10-11" is low rise. Mid would be more like 12-13".


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

hookem12387 said:


> It's a higher midrise, IMO. Maybe .5"-1.5" below navel, depending on how your built.


How would you compare with Bills M2?


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## caravan70 (Mar 18, 2010)

I'll second the J. Crew recommendation. One of my favorite pairs of trousers is a wool, striped pair from them... simply beautiful. Very thick fabric and great construction. Goes wonderfully in fall with a cardigan or pullover sweater. Mine are a few years old... not sure if they're still making that particular model, but worth looking into.

If you want a really thick pair of wool trousers, try Filson. You'll be comfortable in subzero temperatures in some of their wonderful offerings.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

OK, LL Bean washable wool from sale section of website:

Tagged waist 36 measures 18.5 inches on outside, so fairly close. 

I forgot and ordered with cuffs, which means they arrived with stingy little 1 1/4 inch things scarcely worth the name. I'll probably have my alterations lady dismantle and rehem. (As opposed to "ahem.")

Button flap back pockets. Alterable waist (good) with not enough fabric to let anything out (bad).

Just throw 'em in the washing machine, they say. I am not sure I believe this, but there is one way to find out. 

Horrible photo of my personal rear end in these pants. Not tight, not baggy, just about right for the man with no fanny.

Specs: 36 waist measures 18.5 inches; rise 12.5 inches.

Conclusion: A warm, comfortable, nice-looking pair of what I would call hard flannel pants. They're not soft, verging on the fuzzy. They only have this taupey-olive color in the sale section at $45 or so. The regular price is $99. People might not like the button flap rear pockets. 

If I was doing it again I'd get them unfinished and have big ol' cuffs put on.


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## jwa_jwa_jwa (Jul 13, 2010)

Bought a few pairs of BB flannel trousers last December and they are exquisite; durable, good looking and comfortable. Highly recommended.


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## Christophe (Oct 27, 2010)

Is that the "field olive heather" colour? They look much lighter than the website photos.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Here's a better look at the LL Bean pants, which are field olive heather.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks Patrick!

Taupe-y olive indeed. On the LLB page they look like ever-so-slightly-olive-ish gray to me.

Anyway pretty nice pants for fifty bucks, even though flap pockets aren't my thing.


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

Great review Patrick - thank you. I am headed to Freeport today so I will see if the mother ship has any of these left.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

AldenPyle said:


> How would you compare with Bills M2?


 I've tried on an M2 once, so unfortunately I cannot really compare. A decent bit higher than a j Crew classic fit, if that helps at all.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Patrick06790 said:


> OK, LL Bean washable wool from sale section of website:
> 
> Tagged waist 36 measures 18.5 inches on outside, so fairly close.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this summary (and photos).

Based on this review and the sale price, I ordered two pair for myself and received them last night. My initial reaction is that I'm very pleased. I had them hemmed a little short without a cuff and plan to wear them this fall/winter with boots around the yard. A nearly perfect country trouser. I would have liked the option of pleats, but at the current price, I could not resist.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

hookem12387 said:


> I've tried on an M2 once, so unfortunately I cannot really compare. A decent bit higher than a j Crew classic fit, if that helps at all.





AldenPyle said:


> How would you compare with Bills M2?


My size 32 M2 have a 10.25" rise (outseam minus inseam).


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> ...I had them hemmed a little short without a cuff and plan to wear them this fall/winter with boots around the yard...


that's what I should have done. glad it worked out


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## unmodern (Aug 10, 2009)

Jovan said:


> 10-11" is low rise. Mid would be more like 12-13".


So what is high-rise, 15"? If I (5'9", just under average height) wore a 15" rise, the waistband would actually make contact with my ribcage. I've measured. As someone pointed out in another thread, lots of classic suits had 11" rises. Check out the rises in Take Ivy.

There's the ridiculous low-rise fad of 1990's/2000's, but there's the equally ridiculous reactionary response. To me trad is all about balance. . .


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I may have exaggerated a bit. How about we say 13" or greater is "high".


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## BiffBiffster (Jul 2, 2012)

Jovan said:


> I may have exaggerated a bit. How about we say 13" or greater is "high".


How about we say that you simply don't know and that you should defer to someone with more knowledge about the subject? Sometimes "I don't know" is better than making something up.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

The LLB Washable Wool are on sale again. I just ordered some Charcoal Heather for $44.99. There's Navy Heather too. 10% off through Mon.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I would have said the sand thing as jovan. 501s are, I think, 11 1/4. They are considered mid, though high relative to all other jeans these days.

I sure wish I could afford those Younts.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Does anyone have any experience with bonobos? I've almost pulled the trigger on them several times during their sales.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

tocqueville said:


> I would have said the sand thing as jovan. 501s are, I think, 11 1/4. They are considered mid, though high relative to all other jeans these days.
> 
> I sure wish I could afford those Younts.


According to the Levi's website, pre-washed 501s come in 11.25", whilst the shrink-to-fit are 12.25". You wouldn't know, however, because it's pitched in a way that makes the rise seem shorter. Despite that, they are pretty nicely fitting jeans. I only wish the quality was the same as it used to be and there were more belt loops.



tocqueville said:


> Does anyone have any experience with bonobos? I've almost pulled the trigger on them several times during their sales.


IIRC, they have a worry-free return policy. Maybe it's time for both of us to give them a try.


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## alkydrinker (Apr 24, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> Does anyone have any experience with bonobos? I've almost pulled the trigger on them several times during their sales.


I don't know how much their cuts vary between their different models, but I bought a pair of their flagship chinos over the summer. After a few wears I stopped wearing them primarily because the rise is just too low. It is trendy low. However, the fabric is OK and the construction details such a stitching and fasteners is actually very good.

Customer service is excellent. I had to downsize twice - originally tried 36 waist, exchanged for 35 (still too big), then finally a 34. That is to say there is a good amount of vanity sizing in their waist sizing. Pants that truly measure 36" fit me well and Bonobos 34s are comfortable for me.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Good to know, thanks! I'm actually a 35 or 36 myself. I wish they'd stay away from vanity sizing, it's a little frustrating.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Indeed. It makes one begin to wonder if he should only buy trousers in stores so he can try them on first and avoid the hassel mailing back and forth.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Bonobos isn't available in stores, unfortunately.


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## ggleach101 (Dec 17, 2012)

Jovan said:


> Bonobos isn't available in stores, unfortunately.


Bonobos teamed with Nordstrom last year. You can try them on there.

I like Bonobos and wear them quite a bit, as chinos are pretty much what I live on (I am trying to change that). My biggest problem with Bonobos is the lack of consistency in sizing. I ordered three pair of pants, all the same size, but in different colors. I sent all three back. One was too long, but fit in the waist. The other two were good length, but one was too large in the waist and the other was too small in the waist. Again, according to Bonobos, they were all the same size.

They made it right and their customer service is spot on. I have ordered several more times from them, and still find inconsistencies, but it's not a problem to simply trade them out for a different pair of pants.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Well, I'll be damned. Thanks for the tip! I doubt the same sales and promotions happen at Nordstrom, but I'd feel like an ass trying them on and then buying online. :icon_pale:

That's a shame about the consistency. Perhaps they have a few different suppliers?


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## ggleach101 (Dec 17, 2012)

I had just lost a bunch of weight so I was shopping anyway. I saw them and decided to try them on. They didn't have my size in the store, but I got a decent feel for the weight of the material and the cut. I liked it so I ordered them in my size, or what I thought was my size at the time. 

I think they move their production around from time to time, be it China or India, or wherever they are getting the best seal at the time. That could account for the inconsistency. Again, though, they were very gracious in making the exchanges or returns and I still buy from them because I like the overall product.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

that have a good rep here.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Himself said:


> that have a good rep here.


Looks good. One says "worsted wool flannel." Is that not an oxymoron? I thought the two were different.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I think this best explains it: https://putthison.com/post/23674835650/worsted-vs-woolen-flannels-i-love-wool-flannel

A shame they don't have any moleskins... at least not in the search for my size.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

tocqueville said:


> Looks good. One says "worsted wool flannel." Is that not an oxymoron? I thought the two were different.


I thought so too!

BTW I had a hard time finding flannels at all this year. They either sold out quick or weren't stocked enough, except for the high end places that always have them (for over $200).


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

No Nordstroms here...


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Jovan said:


> Well, I'll be damned. Thanks for the tip! I doubt the same sales and promotions happen at Nordstrom, but I'd feel like an ass trying them on and then buying online. :icon_pale:


Bonobos has a "guide shop" in Georgetown in DC, just for trying things on. There are computers there too, to order online from, and a couple of lovely young ladies to convince you. Actually it's a great shopping experience, no pressure at all. I think they understand the online shopper.

I would have bet my eye teeth that Bonobo's has a major retailer behind it. So their stuff is in Nordstrom? Hmm.

Back to everyday wool pants.

I bought the LL Bean washable flannel, like Patrick's, and I'm very pleased. They were advertised as Classic Fit, but are a bit fuller, and almost an inch large. I would downsize next time but they're fine. I got them cuffed, and the length was perfect. Indeed the cuffs are dinky, but for $45 all up, who cares? The creases fell out, but press 'em up again and they'd pass muster anywhere, without ever looking too precious either -- exactly what I like in trad clothing.

Now I need trops for summer...


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Himself said:


> Bonobos has a "guide shop" in Georgetown in DC, just for trying things on. There are computers there too, to order online from, and a couple of lovely young ladies to convince you. Actually it's a great shopping experience, no pressure at all. I think they understand the online shopper.
> 
> I would have bet my eye teeth that Bonobo's has a major retailer behind it. So their stuff is in Nordstrom? Hmm.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip about the g-town shop. I'll check that out when i get a chance. Interesting idea.


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Costco's Kirkland gabs are a great buy at ~$60. Made in Itally. Only basic colors (blue, grey, tan, etc.), though.


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