# Mad For Ascots



## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

As a member here suggested, I've been watching movies to get a sense of a sartorial style I would like to adopt, and there is one look I've _definitely_ taken a shining to: the ascot.

I like the suave "completeness" that Cary Grant displays when he wears one with casual clothes--much nicer, IMO, than bearing an open throat to the general public. When playing Bertie Wooster, Hugh Laurie wears one when clad in pajamas. What a splendid appearance it makes! How could such a sublime statement such as this ever fade from the area of fine men's clothing?

Now, the big question is _this_: Do you think I can carry off this noble stance? After all, I'm only 27, and perhaps it calls for a more seasoned gentleman to adequately display an ascot in today's society, without fear of reprisal?

Gentlemen, I anxiously await all of your kind responses.

--Chase

P.S. And oh, BTW, if I do decide to start wearing ascots, where can I go to purchase some?

 CAH


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## rssmsvc777 (Jun 20, 2005)

You can buy them at Brooks Brothers, I just saw a few of them.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

Chase Hamilton said:


> As a member here suggested, I've been watching movies to get a sense of a sartorial style I would like to adopt, and there is one look I've _definitely_ taken a shining to: the ascot.
> 
> I like the suave "completeness" that Cary Grant displays when he wears one with casual clothes--much nicer, IMO, than bearing an open throat to the general public. When playing Bertie Wooster, Hugh Laurie wears one when clad in pajamas. What a splendid appearance it makes! How could such a sublime statement such as this ever fade from the area of fine men's clothing?
> 
> ...


You can purchase them at Ben Silver.

In my opinion, an ascot on a 27 year old is going to look, at best, affectatious, or at worst, eccentric and pretentious. Donning an article of clothing that fell out of favor 20 years before you were born is probably not the best way to take style tips from old movies.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

It depends on your circle. You risk looking like you are wearing a costume. So few people wear ascots that, especially on someone your age, it will look more like an affectation than an article of clothing.

Unless you travel in avant garde circles, you are taking a big risk by wearing them.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

My take: There is no way any 27-year-old can pull off an ascot without looking like he's wearing costume. Might as well add a cigarette holder and a monocle.

Everyone wants to be Cary Grant, but there was only one, and he's been dead for a long time now. (Nothing personal, of course. I kind of like the look myself.)


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## larsrindsig (Dec 31, 2006)

I must admit to a secret liking of ascots, too (and I'm the same age as you). However, as others have pointed out, wearing one will stigmatise you as someone who is trying too hard. It may just be that this is a lost battle. Shame, though.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

The eBay seller Moditalia has lightly used ones (she started selling things from films) for as little as as $.99 plus postage. A highly desireable pattern may go for all of $20. Start there.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Is Moditalia in Italy? There's a seller with a similar name who sometimes has ties I like, but I don't want to pay the overseas shipping.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Badrabbit said:


> You can purchase them at Ben Silver.
> 
> In my opinion, an ascot on a 27 year old is going to look, at best, affectatious, or at worst, eccentric and pretentious. Donning an article of clothing that fell out of favor 20 years before you were born is probably not the best way to take style tips from old movies.


On the other hand, where I live we don't blink an eye when a man walks by attired as if he'd just stepped off the set of Robin Hood. Wear costume often enough and it is soon only clothing again.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I know some of the undergraduates, guys 19 and 20, would wear them when I was at Oxford. I didn't think they looked foolish, maybe a little affected, though. That was quite a few years ago, however, (about 42, to be exact).

I wore ascots a fair bit while I was in my 30s, then didn't for a long time but more recently have taken up the practice in the past few years, especially the past year, when I bought a half-dozen. Three of those I bought on sale at the Beverly Hills Polo Shop in the company of no less a personage than Andy Gilchrist himself!

I have really come to like the way they dress up an otherwise mundane casual ensemble. I say if you like them, go for it! Be a style-setter, not a follower.

For the best value in ascots, I suggest Beau Ties Ltd. of Vermont. They call theirs "cravats." (What they call ascots are Velcro-fastened affairs in which I have no interest). The Beau Ties ascots are $65 (with a discount if you buy several items). The ones I have bought locally at Carroll & Co. have more fabric, hence are more sumptious, but they cost $95, with no discounts.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I have a secret affection for them. Years ago I bought a burgundy with cream dots ascot and put it away at the bottom of the shoebox in which I store my bow ties.

I am planning to start wearing it if and when, God willing, I make it to 65. Got a bit less than 20 years to go . . . . (by then ties will probably have slipped into the realm of hopeless affectation too . . . *sigh*).

As for wearing one at the age of 27? No disrespect but IMO there's almost no way in H-E-double toothpicks it wouldn't look ridiculous.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Whereas clearly some members of AA will see your ascot as affected, I don't think that many people who are not interested in eclectic clothing will know in the first place what that thing around your neck is. On campus I get more attention when I wear a tie than an ascot.

I buy my ascots at https://forzieri.com . That ebay seller, moditalia, also caught my attention, and I bid on one of those that went for $20 or so. It was a lovely crimson one.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*Recent Sighting*

I went to my wife's Christmas office party. For those of you who have been following my saga, no, I did not wear my sweater vest. One of the party attendees was a retired (local) television weather man who wore an ascot with a navy balzer, pocket square in complimentary colors to the ascot, grey wool trousers, and leather loafers. I admit that remembering that kind of detail for a member of this forum is not that extraordinary, but it also created an indelible impression on the scientists and engineers with whom my wife works. It really looked sharp. The weatherman in question was older, but it was difficult to determine if he was 50 or 60. Later, I heard he may be closer to 70. At 35 I do not believe I could pull off the look, but I would really like to try at 45.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

I'm in my 40's and tried one on at Paul Stuart around Christmas. (pretty poor one with one end and a loop) My wife thought it looked pretty rediculous on someone so "young". I'd try a scarf rather than an ascot- looks more youthful IMO.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

DocHolliday said:


> Is Moditalia in Italy? There's a seller with a similar name who sometimes has ties I like, but I don't want to pay the overseas shipping.


She is. I recall that the postage is nominal, though the savings puts your package in the hands of the Italian postal service.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

yachtie said:


> I'm in my 40's and tried one on at Paul Stuart around Christmas. My wife thought it looked pretty rediculous on someone so "young". I'd try a scarf rather than an ascot- looks more youthful IMO.


Attitudes can be so different. I will wear an ascot without a second thought but I have a couple good English silk neckerchiefs and I can't leave the house with them on because I think they look too affected.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Will said:


> She is. I recall that the postage is nominal, though the savings puts your package in the hands of the Italian postal service.


Seems like it's $7 or so. Not much, I admit, but seems like a lot when debating buying a $4 tie.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

dopey said:


> Ascots (I assume you mean a silk scarf tied full around the neck and tucked under your shirt) are the most useful and important article of clothing that has fallen into disuse that I can think of.


Would you include hats in that category? If so, I'd vote for those.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Will said:


> Attitudes can be so different. I will wear an ascot without a second thought but I have a couple good English silk neckerchiefs and I can't leave the house with them on because I think they look too affected.


What is the difference between an ascot and a neckerchief?


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

DocHolliday said:


> Is Moditalia in Italy? There's a seller with a similar name who sometimes has ties I like, but I don't want to pay the overseas shipping.


Completely agree with both.

If you succeed in bringing it back, I'll definitely jump on that bandwagon but I'm just not brave enough to be one of the pioneers...



dopey said:


> Ascots (I assume you mean a silk scarf tied full around the neck and tucked under your shirt) are the most useful and important article of clothing that has fallen into disuse that I can think of.
> 
> I often wear ties on the weekends when I would be much happier wearing an ascot. An open-necked shirt looks sloppy and an ascot is a great solution. Nonetheless, I won't wear one since it is just too unconventional and looks like attention-seeking. It is one thing to be practical but another to be deliberately distracting.
> 
> Still, I hope you wear one and bring it back for us timid folk.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

interestedinclothing said:


> What is the difference between an ascot and a neckerchief?


In Dressing The Man_, _Flusser uses 'Ascot' and 'Neckerchief' interchangeably.

Attention all you sartorial experts: Is he correct?

BTW, I have been following this discussion with great interest. As I work from home, it would be easy to revive a trend within my own confines. :icon_smile_wink:


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Chase Hamilton said:


> In Dressing The Man_, _Flusser uses 'Ascot' and 'Neckerchief' interchangeably.
> 
> Attention all you sartorial experts: Is he correct?
> 
> BTW, I have been following this discussion with great interest. As I work from home, it would be easy to revive a trend within my own confines. :icon_smile_wink:


What does he say about them? Neckerchief sounds like a marketing neologism for an ascot.


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## Boulevard06 (May 16, 2006)

Ascots are aesthetically pleasing and quite functional. If you want to wear one, wear one.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

interestedinclothing said:


> What does he say about them? Neckerchief sounds like a marketing neologism for an ascot.


Glad to oblige! Here's how Flusser defines them:

Ascot: "A square-ended tie with each end of equal width, worm primarily for day wear. Deriving its name from Ascot Heath, the English racetrack where the tie was first worn, the ascot consists of two knots. The first is a single knot, while the second is a Gordian knot with one end crossing over the other and held in place with a stickpin. Also, a throw-over neck scarf for sportswear."

Neckerchief: "A square knotted or draped in ascot fashion around the neck, usually made of cotton, silk, linen, or a wool-blend." [Methinks a word or two was omitted here.]

On page 169, Flusser displays four different ways to tie an ascot/neckerchief.

--Chase


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

An ascot, as you know, is two large blades connected by a strip of silk. The blades are worn inside the shirt. 

A scarf or a neckerchief is a 27" square of silk that is folded into a triangle, and from that into a long strip that is knotted around the neck. The ends are worn outside the shirt.

If I have time I will post a picture.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Wear an ascot, but be prepared to be snickered about. You will look silly to most business people, at least. But then, there are a lot of people who think a tie is pretentious nowadays, too, I suppose.

To me, (I may not be the deciding voice on this) a neckerchief is something that is usually rolled up and then tied at the front of the neck in possibly a square knot or other knot and generally worn with an open collar. An ascot is tied so that the fabric is pulled over the knot (if there is one) and no knot is visible.)


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

Will said:


> If I have time I will post a picture.


:icon_smile_wink:


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Tomasso said:


> :icon_smile_wink:


That's a neckerchief, correct?

--Chase


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## BUFFEDCARACENILOVER (Jan 18, 2007)

I forget who said it, but I love the quote:
"Style is knowing who you are, what you want to say, and not giving a damn about the rest." I think that's how it went. If you look self-conscious and uptight in it, odds are, you'll get ridiculed to death. However, if you wear it as if you know YOU ARE THE MAN, you'd be surprised how well your neckwear will be received, depending upon the situation, of course. 
Remember two things:
1.99% of "reality" is perception.
2.Humans can smell fear and insecurity.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

interestedinclothing said:


> What does he say about them? Neckerchief sounds like a marketing neologism for an ascot.


Flusser is pretty bullish about them and views them as a way to smarten up corporate casual. My favorite way to wear my one ascot is with a crew neck sweater, shirt collar tucked in or spread over top as the mood strikes. This reveals just a bit of the ascot so that it's an accent rather than something that screams for attention. I just employed this method last night with a blue shirt and dress commando type sweater. I thought it looked good and if it were truly obtrusive, the particular crowd with whom I was having drinks would no doubt have teased me royally.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Allow me to weigh in on this, in strong support of the OP. First, I wholeheartedly agree with JLibourel -- don't be a sheep, be a lion; be a man. There simply is no good reason on earth why you should not wear a simple piece of cloth around your neck if that's what your fancy or sense of expression strikes you to do.
Who gives a sh_t what others think. 

Your unique voice, vision and style are your birthright; they're gifts from your creator or your creative muse. We are all endowed with our own. Don't surrender yours to a committee vote! 

As I've noted on other occasions, I've been "dressing" for more than 30 years and have many times confronted the quandry you now face, namely, what will others think? In those days, there was no SF or AAAC to provide guidance or help me think things through; I've always had to find my courage from within. And I'm damn happy I did. 

Yes, I wore ascots when I was your age, and even younger (I'm now 45). Here's how I'd psyche myself up whenever I felt uncertain about a look I wanted to wear but felt compelled by my muse to don: I'd either leave home in the company of someone I enjoyed hanging out with (such as a family member or close friend) -- somone who would not be critical or judgmental -- or I'd dress down the look or wear it in an incongruous environment so that no one felt threatened by it. 

The key, in either case, was to first build my sea legs/gain my confidence with the look. It might take more than one occasion, but once you gain confidence, or at least ease with wearing whatever it is you want to wear you will quickly lose your self consciousness and beging to project comfort and confidence. It is in that moment that others will see your style and the way you carry it off as elegant and panache.

I say go for it. Never let fear govern your choices, for then it will govern your life -- and this is the only one you get. Don't live it by averting your gaze or by hiding your light. Keep your head high and let your light shine!


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Tomasso said:


> :icon_smile_wink:


Okay, that is almost a bandana. Those are still very appropriate if you are hiking or in the boy scouts. I have a red bandana that I tie around my neck like that when I hike. For lunch or dinner I might think twice.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

LARon said:


> Allow me to weigh in on this, in strong support of the OP. First, I wholeheartedly agree with JLibourel -- don't be a sheep, be a lion; be a man. There simply is no good reason on earth why you should not wear a simple piece of cloth around your neck if that's what your fancy or sense of expression strikes you to do.
> Who gives a sh_t what others think.


The great conundrum of AAAC in a nutshell, right there. How much value to place on the opinions of others?

I dress to please myself, but I am very much aware of how I will be perceived. There are many fashions of years gone by I enjoy -- frock coats, cloaks, etc. -- but I'd never wear them. They're costume today, and that seems like the antithesis of elegance, no matter how elegant they might once have been.

But we must each find our own comfort level, I suppose.


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## Thurston (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm 40 now and love the look but have been afraid to try it. I think an ascot with an open necked shirt and sportcoat looks worlds nicer than the open neck alone. I don't know why I worry so much. Could people possibly think I look worse than I think _they_ look when wearing sweatpants, sneakers, jeans that drag 3" on the ground, baseball caps in linen napkin restaurants or muffin-top jeans? And then there's the issue brought up earlier in this thread: would anyone even notice? Would they have a clue as to what they were looking at?

I've decided that I'll stop in Stein Mart this weekend and if they still have those $20 ascots I'll pick one up. If they don't have them - and how could they not - I'll be sure to report back that they ascot is returning to favor. :icon_smile_wink:


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> Flusser is pretty bullish about them and views them as a way to smarten up corporate casual. My favorite way to wear my one ascot is with a crew neck sweater, shirt collar tucked in or spread over top as the mood strikes. This reveals just a bit of the ascot so that it's an accent rather than something that screams for attention. I just employed this method last night with a blue shirt and dress commando type sweater. I thought it looked good and if it were truly obtrusive, the particular crowd with whom I was having drinks would no doubt have teased me royally.


I like this look also, except that I keep the collar tips inside of the sweater. If an ascot suits his personality any guy can make this work. The v-neck sweater, spread-collar shirt with the collar button and possibly another button open is bolder.


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## Thurston (Aug 17, 2006)

Are they really out of date if they're on today's Polo website?

Not exactly ascots, but even a little more offbeat if you ask me.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Thurston said:


> Are they really out of date if they're on today's Polo website?
> 
> Not exactly ascots, but even a little more offbeat if you ask me.


_Thanks_ for posting these, Thurston!

I'm partial to the ascot worn with the (velvet?) blazer. I know, the classic look is what I'm after! :icon_smile:

As to the others--hmmm. Not for me, unfortunately. It's my understanding that displaying too much of the ascot is incorrect. I'm with those that believe the main purpose of the ascot is to hide the throat in a pleasing manner, not bring too much attention to a gentleman's neck/chest!

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Connemara (Sep 16, 2005)

Will said:


> She is. I recall that the postage is nominal, though the savings puts your package in the hands of the Italian postal service.


Do NOT buy from Moditalia. It took over a month for an Altea tie I bought from her to arrive. This happens frequently to her buyers, apparently.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Unless most of your salary is spent on prophylactics I wouldn't suggest wearing any of those Polo outfits.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Connemara said:


> Do NOT buy from Moditalia. It took over a month for an Altea tie I bought from her to arrive. This happens frequently to her buyers, apparently.


That's what I meant about the Italian postal service.

I've bought perhaps ten ascots from her without a problem, other than slow delivery. For a $20 ascot I don't care if I wait.


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## Thurston (Aug 17, 2006)

interestedinclothing said:


> Unless most of your salary is spent on prophylactics I wouldn't suggest wearing any of those Polo outfits.


LOL! I actually avoided some of the more effeminate pictures too.


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

Although I've been suspicious of them for a while, I picked one up in Syms for $10 or so back in the beginning of December. While I will admit that I really like how it looks in the mirror (not nearly as flashy or outlandish as it seems) I'm having a hard time figuring out when to wear it, however. I really doubt I would wear it to work (though it was my boss who gave me hell for _not_ owning one), and I doubt I'd wear one to a bar or something. I'm only 22, and I'm really not too concerned about having the confidence to pull it off, I'm just trying to wait until I can find the right opportunity.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

tripreed said:


> I'm really not too concerned about having the confidence to pull it off, I'm just trying to wait until I can find the right opportunity.


Trip,

May I suggest wearing it with a nice polo and blazer when out for a semiformal evening this spring?

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## kshah (Oct 30, 2006)

The ones featured in the Polo shoot were all dark colors. Makes it seem boring.

I think they might work a little better in Spring.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> My favorite way to wear my one ascot is with a crew neck sweater, shirt collar tucked in or spread over top as the mood strikes. This reveals just a bit of the ascot so that it's an accent rather than something that screams for attention.


Eureka.

This strikes me as a very good way to sport an ascot. I just may try it before I hit retirement age.

Thanks for posting this method.

PS: I personally would go w/ my shirt collar tucked in as I think collar out draws the eye too readily to the neck area, which is not the idea here. Or I would just wear a buttondown collar, which sort of makes the decision for you.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Several posters have expressed their favor of ascots but feel constrained by fear or discomfort from wearing them. This is what I react to most strongly. Obviously, if that many guys still find them alluring, there must be something to it (and as an ascot devotee, I believe there is). 

While frock coats and capes may have long ago fallen out of favor and become costumy -- I certainly agree with that -- ascots have not. Indeed, as has been noted in several posts, there available right now from a variety of sources. So, they're obviously not long gone, nor gone the way of the cape. In fact, they're quite common in Florence and Paris. If you have an interest in expressing yourself in one, consider it adding a European touch. 

Besides, where would we be if there weren't people who dared let their muse/creative side speak, for fear of what others "may" think (in my experience, the people you fear most are sometimes among the first to compliment or mimic you). Impressionists were considered hack painters until enough of them came on the scene to constitute a movement, then a revolution. It was only after they're impact was patently obvious that the art world acknowledged that they may be onto something. 

As Lee Iacocca used to say, you either lead, follow or get out of the way.
Ditto to the ascot brigade. Wrap those necks fellas, and before long others will be doing likewise, thinking to themselves, "hey, that looks cool." If nothing else, it may begin a conversation.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

For me, it's not a matter of what others "may" think, it's a reaction to what I *would* think. If I saw a 20-something guy in an ascot, I'd assume he was unpleasantly self-involved, really geeky or both. On someone that young, it's foppish. 

That's not fair of me, I know, but I'm quite sure I wouldn't be alone in that assessment. Think of Tucker Carlson's bow tie and how strongly people reacted to that. 

I can buy cloaks from as many sources as I can buy ascots, but I'm still not going to wear one.


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## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

I know a Cal professor who wears an ascot when he is entertaining casually at home. As I think back ... I perhaps took notice the first time I saw him in one ... but I got used to it quickly. He has enough style to make it work.


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## UPennHaberdasher (Oct 9, 2006)

As I dress for myself, and I am 19 at college (I'm surrounded by jeans and sweatsuits), wearing a suit and hats makes me stand out anyway, so if I want to wear an ascot (which I often do) I just say "Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" and wear it anyway.
UPH


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

I'm not sure age itself really has anything to do with whether you can pull of an ascot. I think the real issue is your attitude. The problem with an ascot is that it immediately appears ornamental to most eyes, and thus can easily make you appear affected, as everyone's already pointed out. That being said, I think if you can wear an ascot with enough confidence such that it appears to be just a natural part of your outfit, then you could look just fine.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

A couple of brief thoughts after perusing this thread:

If you are willing to go about wearing a sport coat and pocket square in a milieu where jeans, sneakers, T-shirts and sweats are the norm, as I am and as I do, an ascot isn't going to make too much difference as to how you are perceived.

The comparison to frock coats and such seems lame. I don't know where you can get a frock coat outside of a costume establishment, but a number of upscale men's clothiers do offer ascots. That's a significant difference in my eyes.

It's kind of curious. I absolute loathe costuming, yet I will go about in contemporary yet classic apparel that probably strikes many observers as costume--a paradox that!


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## AOI Photo (Dec 19, 2006)

I am slightly older than you (31) and have worn them for at least 6 years.
I would have no hesitation wearing one but here is some advice given to me that I would pass on.

1. First try wearing them with a blue shirt. The gentleman who sold me my first one gave me that advice. He said that it attracts less attention against a blue shirt, than against white. Obvious perhaps, but true.

2. Start with a subtle one.

3. After putting it on, never think about it. Don't try to adjust it, don't mess with it, just forget about it. If yo are at all self conscious about what you wear, it shows.

I have never had anyone point and laugh. I have been asked "Where can I get a scarf like that" Most people simply mistake it for a stylish way of wearing a conventional scarf.

It is almost like when I wear a stroller, those in the know appreciate it, those that don't often ask where I got the "cool sport coat". The people who know just enough to be contemptuous are few and far between.

_This is the secodn post I have had to edit because I am to tired to type worth a darn.
_


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## Drag0n (Aug 24, 2006)

In Japan, I see ascots all the time.

I think they are very stylish for casual wear


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Drag0n said:


> In Japan, I see ascots all the time.
> 
> I think they are very stylish for casual wear


There, again.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

RSS said:


> I know a Cal professor who wears an ascot when he is entertaining casually at home. He has enough style to make it work.


Ahh, and there you have it. It all goes back to the attitude and projection of the wearer. (On this note, see my first post in this thread.)


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

I can't find the post that I wanted to reply to, but an ascot, of course, isn't adding a European flair to your outfit. An ascot is a classic American look, which is why I wear it. If I suspected that by wearing an ascot I was affecting an Italian or Frenchman I would be warier of it.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

DocHolliday said:


> For me, it's not a matter of what others "may" think, it's a reaction to what I *would* think. If I saw a 20-something guy in an ascot, I'd assume he was unpleasantly self-involved, really geeky or both. On someone that young, it's foppish.
> 
> That's not fair of me, I know, but I'm quite sure I wouldn't be alone in that assessment. Think of Tucker Carlson's bow tie and how strongly people reacted to that.


This is rather surprising to read, Doc. I've not previously known that you are so concerned with the perception of others, nor so critical as to ascribe negative traits (self-absorbed, geeky) to hypothetical/straw men just to justify not liking something.

Conversely, though I've not heard about the flap or strong reaction you cite concerning Tucker Carlson (was it a poll or somthing?), I'm glad to see he's secure enough in his choices to not let the views of others dictate what he wears, or what's best for him. Bravo TC! Viva la bow tie.

(Maybe he learned the same lesson I did: what others think of me is none of my business -- unless they're feeding, housing or clothing me.)


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

interestedinclothing said:


> I can't find the post that I wanted to reply to, but an ascot, of course, isn't adding a European flair to your outfit. An ascot is a classic American look, which is why I wear it. If I suspected that by wearing an ascot I was affecting an Italian or Frenchman I would be warier of it.


So much the better. My reference was intended to suggest how they are more commonly seen over there than they are, nowadays, here; not to comment on their provenance. But thanks for pointing that out.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Well, you'll obviously please a few people who post on AAAC and wish ascots were still fashionable. The rest of the world - - -


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## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

OK, so look. There are a number of us who like the look but are afraid to start it ourselves - eager to jump on the bandwagon, but not prepared to lead the charge. 
Why don't we start a Wear Your Ascot Day? Safety in numbers and all that. Arlo Guthrie said if five of you do it - it's a movement. 
Start by wearing it at home so we're comfortable with it, and, as was wisely suggested above, don't have to fuss with it once it's on. Then work our way up to short trips and errands to sypathetic establishments - the dry cleaners, liquor store, cigar shop. Then, when we are comfortable, to work and social functions. 
What say we begin training now and choose the first day of Spring for a full day of full-fledged ascot wearing?


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm in. Date?


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

*Too polite?*

Are people being too polite to the OP here? If so, you may not be doing him a favor.

While I agree with the comments that suggest the ascot would look affected or costumey, I think the best description is that it would look ridiculous. (I would apply the same description to that picture of Cary Grant or Rock Hudson or whoever it was wearing a bandanna.)

On the other hand, if you will be spending a lot of time socializing with Chatsworth Osborne, Jr., Thurston Howell III, and Thatcher Baxter Hatcher you may not stand out, even in your ascot, monocle, and cape.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

LARon said:


> So much the better. My reference was intended to suggest how they are more commonly seen over there than they are, nowadays, here; not to comment on their provenance. But thanks for pointing that out.


Do you have any pictures of people in Italy or France wearing ascots? I assume that The Sartorialist has some, but I haven't seen any in his blog except for one older man, who was in New York if I recall. I am always interested to see how people utilize ascots; the navy blazer with the ascot seems to be the most popular, and then Thurston Howell, III, wears them with everything from cardigans to button downs and polos. But he also wears belts with braces and prefers solid ascots, which seem to have about the effect of solid ties, if not more so. BBC's Jeeves & Wooster also shows the American billionaire J. Washburn Stoker with the peaked cap, DB navy blazer, white dock pants, and navy ascot look. And another young American man in that series with a similar outfit is wearing a navy ascot, but he doesn't have a peaked cap and his navy blazer is SB.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

By the way, does everybody agree that Bertie Wooster on the BBC series is an insufferable twit? Possibly not the best role model.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

LARon said:


> This is rather surprising to read, Doc. I've not previously known that you are so concerned with the perception of others, nor so critical as to ascribe negative traits (self-absorbed, geeky) to hypothetical/straw men just to justify not liking something.


Well, I'm glad I don't come across that way, because I do my best to avoid such behavior. But at the same time, it's no straw man to suggest that people can and do react negatively to unusual clothing choices. Just look at the threads here about some of the guys pictured at the Sartorialist. Pretending that people don't draw conclusions about you based on your clothing just seems naive.



> Conversely, though I've not heard about the flap or strong reaction you cite concerning Tucker Carlson (was it a poll or somthing?), I'm glad to see he's secure enough in his choices to not let the views of others dictate what he wears, or what's best for him. Bravo TC! Viva la bow tie.


There's been quite a lot of discussion of this here. A search for Tucker will give you a lot of opinions on his wardrobe, and the discussion usually breaks down similarly to the one we're having now.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Jack, we agree again. I have tiptoed around the truth you directly state.

Unless you hang out with only actors and artists, you will look totally out of place with the ascot.

It's a hard decision to make sometimes, whether we are giving advice to AAAC members how to dress for each other, or for the world in general.

In the world in general, you will look ridiculous in an ascot. So ridiculous that it could affect people's business decisions regarding you, even if you wear the ascot socially. If you are over 60, you might get away with it. Other than that, forget it.

I should probably have been bolder in the first place.

Alas. Let the flames begin.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

I like them and wear 'em from time to time.

My wife loves them and wishes that I would wear them more often, but it is easy to forget to throw one on for long periods of time.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Unless you hang out with only actors and artists, you will look totally out of place with the ascot.


I'm a journalist who covers theatre--I guess that makes me an artist. Also, I work from home. Maybe yet another reason why I should try wearing one? 

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

By my count (through post #70), there are 4 members who are strongly against or do not favor ascots, 3 who are neutral (expressing neither support/sympathy nor opposition) and 22 who strongly support or are sympathetic to the pro-ascot camp. (I left out Will, who's expressed all three views.)

To the extent numbers mean anything, they're running more than 5 to 1 in favor of/sympathetic to.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

LARon said:


> To the extent numbers mean anything, there is strong evidence that the view that ascots convey a negative impression is a decidedly minority view.


... among people who chose to reply to a thread about ascots on a men's clothing forum.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

DocHolliday said:


> ... among people who chose to reply to a thread about ascots on a men's clothing forum.


Why do we care if somebody snickers at us? I mean who really gives a rats a$$?


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## larsrindsig (Dec 31, 2006)

Good Old Sledge said:


> OK, so look. There are a number of us who like the look but are afraid to start it ourselves - eager to jump on the bandwagon, but not prepared to lead the charge.
> Why don't we start a Wear Your Ascot Day?


I'd do that!


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## Spence (Feb 28, 2006)

DocHolliday said:


> ... among people who chose to reply to a thread about ascots on a men's clothing forum.


Excellent point.

Discussions like this can lead to some interesting observations but always will fall back to the same truisim. It all depends...

Personal character, confidence and context are all important. Where I live I could wear pink cords with blue sailboats on them and it would be fine, but drive a few miles inland or even worse, go home to Iowa and I'd get beaten up 

-spence


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

iammatt said:


> Why do we care if somebody snickers at us? I mean who really gives a rats a$$?


Isn't this the logic used by guys who dress up as Star Trek characters in public? Where do we draw the line?

That probably comes across as more curt than I mean, so please don't think I'm trying to be rude. It's just a tough nut to crack. My tastes run to the theatrical, and I tend to push boundaries in the way I dress, but I ultimately want to be on the right side of the line, as it were. If my appearance impedes my life, hurts my career or alienates people, what's the point?


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Jack, we agree again. I have tiptoed around the truth you directly state.
> 
> Unless you hang out with only actors and artists, you will look totally out of place with the ascot.
> 
> ...


You may have a point. While we're on that thought, does anyone know if ascots are more regionally accepted in certain areas of the USA than others? In what parts of the USA did ascots first appear, and in what parts of the USA did ascots linger the longest?

I still argue that most people don't know what an ascot is, but I do concede that a man is naive if he expects that his ascot will bring about greater or even formerly equivalent social favor. But there are still some people, probably those of a more solitary nature, for whom the having of their own identity and standards is more important than avoiding the crossing of any social lines that could attract negative attention. 'Who cares what people think,' is a well-meaning saying. Stipulate that there are modalities of dress and circumstance, and that when a guy opens his mouth he can change the impression of others quickly, and you have a good reason to wear an ascot, assuming that a man requires a reason in the first place to wear his ascot.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

DocHolliday said:


> Isn't this the logic used by guys who dress up as Star Trek characters in public? *Where do we draw the line*?


You're right, Doc. I would definitely not wear an ascot with my Star Fleet Uniform. Well, maybe with the Wrath of Khan style tunics, but definitely not original series pullovers.:icon_smile_wink:


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> You're right, Doc. I would definitely not wear an ascot with my Star Fleet Uniform. Well, maybe with the Wrath of Khan style tunics, but definitely not original series pullovers.:icon_smile_wink:


People often mistakenly believe the black cloth around the crew's neck on the original series is an undershirt, when they're really all wearing ascots.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

DocHolliday said:


> People often mistakenly believe the black cloth around the crew's neck on the original series is an undershirt, when they're really all wearing ascots.


Perhaps this is a shameless threadjack, but in the original series, Kirk really could have used an ascot to cover some chest when he wore the deep v-necked, wrap-around number seemingly reserved for the captain.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

interestedinclothing said:


> Thurston Howell, III, wears them with everything from cardigans to button downs and polos. But he also wears belts with braces and prefers solid ascots, which seem to have about the effect of solid ties, if not more so.


In his book Gentleman: A Timeless Fashion, Roetzel states that Ascots should *never *be solids or stripes, _only_ patterns.

Just more proof that a huge amount of money and dressing appropriately don't always go hand in hand...

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> ...when he wore the deep v-necked, wrap-around number seemingly reserved for the captain.


That was for the benefit of Uhura and Yeoman Rand. After all, RHIP.


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## BUFFEDCARACENILOVER (Jan 18, 2007)

Thurston said:


> Are they really out of date if they're on today's Polo website?
> 
> Not exactly ascots, but even a little more offbeat if you ask me.


More proof that really good-looking guys can pull off damn near anything!


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Excuse me, I must have stumbled into the Bizarro AAAC. With all the posts we see excoriating people who wear the standard style of American casual dress as jackasses, mocking those who wear notch-lapel tuxes or rubber-soled shoes, or debating the impact of an extra or missing quarter-inch in a cuff or tie or the gaucherie of leaving one's cuff buttons unbuttoned, it's a little hard to believe that "Who cares what other people think?" is really the guiding wardrobe principle around here.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Chase Hamilton said:


> In his book Gentleman: A Timeless Fashion, Roetzel states that Ascots should *never *be solids or stripes, _only_ patterns.
> 
> Just more proof that a huge amount of money and dressing appropriately don't always go hand in hand...
> 
> ...


Does he explain why? I am curious because I have considered both solid yellow and orange ascots for Summer wear. The colors alone seem showy enough.


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## AOI Photo (Dec 19, 2006)

Chase Hamilton said:


> I'm a journalist who covers theatre--I guess that makes me an artist. Also, I work from home. Maybe yet another reason why I should try wearing one?
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Chase


Hmm. Maybe I need to tell all my fellow Dallas Theatre people "look for the guy in the acot... no not me, the other guy in the ascot." :icon_smile:


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

*Chase Hamilton* said: _In his book Gentleman: A Timeless Fashion, Roetzel states that Ascots should *never *be solids or stripes, __only patterns.

Just more proof that a huge amount of money and dressing appropriately don't always go hand in hand...

Kind Regards,

Chase_



interestedinclothing said:


> Does he explain why? I am curious because I have considered both solid yellow and orange ascots for Summer wear. The colors alone seem showy enough.


Interested...

All Roetzel states is there is "unlike neckties, there is no such thing as a solid or striped ascot." Finis! Perhaps someone can tell us why Roetzel has adopted this philosophy.

--Chase


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## robin (Jan 6, 2007)

The Sartorialist featured some pictures last month of a few men sporting light neck scarves almost like ascots: https://men.style.com/fashion/blogs/sartorialist/2007/01/ascot_or_neck_s.html#comments

I think this style would be the appropriate middle-ground for those not wanting to wear a full ascot.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Chase Hamilton said:


> All Roetzel states is there is "unlike neckties, there is no such thing as a solid or striped ascot." Finis! Perhaps someone can tell us why Roetzel has adopted this philosophy.


He also claims that a man's belt buckle must be brass, and endorses the Hermes "H" buckle.

I love Roetzel, but he's got some quirks.


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## jjwest (Aug 17, 2005)

Chase Hamilton said:


> In his book Gentleman: A Timeless Fashion, Roetzel states that Ascots should *never *be solids or stripes, _only_ patterns.


I'm not one for lots of rules, but as a devoted fan of ascots, I've got to say that I never wear solids or stripes. Ascots should offer a modest amount of visual interest. Solids, IMHO, are kind of inert and stripes are too bold. I like small patterns in general. So I guess there's something to Roetzel's point.

jjwest


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I'll just add that the first time (and only time so far) I have worn my newest ascot to work, I got more compliments on my appearance than I ever do in my finest neckties. And I work in a very casual office, so obviously they are not all that offputting to a lot of people. One may argue that I am cut some slack because of my age, however.

As to solid ascots, I used to wear them. These days they just seem a little too high school ROTC drill team-ish for my tastes.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

LARon said:


> By my count (through post #70), there are 4 members who are strongly against or do not favor ascots, 3 who are neutral (expressing neither support/sympathy nor opposition) and 22 who strongly support or are sympathetic to the pro-ascot camp. (I left out Will, who's expressed all three views.)
> 
> To the extent numbers mean anything, they're running more than 5 to 1 in favor of/sympathetic to.


I am entirely for them unless in Lansing, Michigan or Montpellier, Vermont where they are only worn by affected young men.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

JLibourel said:


> I'll just add that the first time (and only time so far) I have worn my newest ascot to work, I got more compliments on my appearance than I ever do in my finest neckties. And I work in a very casual office, so obviously they are not all that offputting to a lot of people. One may argue that I am cut some slack because of my age, however.


Fellows with a bit of seniority can pull them off much better than can the young, I'd say. Part of it is simply context. An ascot, like a hat, requires clothing of a certain style and quality, clothing that suggests a certain station in life. We've all seen many young fedora fans wearing their hats with very casual clothes, and the clothing only makes the hat look more out of place on one so young. Paired with a suit, though, the hat looks much better, because it has context.

Similarly, an ascot requires a certain elegance of attire that, when combined with the ascot, often pushes the young man into foppishness. It's not that young guys shouldn't dress well -- just that they, like all guys, must be aware of the image they present. An ascot is pure ornamentation, and such ornamentation on the young, worn in the necessary context, often creates an image of vanity and self-involvement. It suggests conspicuous wealth/privilege (see the Thurston Howell comments), and that the fellow disregards the opinions of his peers. Many people will find such an image offputting, and I can understand why.

An older fellow, on the other hand, has had time to earn his station in life, and so society gives him more freedom to wear what he likes.

Here ends the overanalysis.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

DocHolliday said:


> Fellows with a bit of seniority can pull them off much better than can the young, I'd say. Part of it is simply context. An ascot, like a hat, requires clothing of a certain style and quality, clothing that suggests a certain station in life. We've all seen many young fedora fans wearing their hats with very casual clothes, and the clothing only makes the hat look more out of place on one so young. Paired with a suit, though, the hat looks much better, because it has context.
> 
> Similarly, an ascot requires a certain elegance of attire that, when combined with the ascot, often pushes the young man into foppishness. It's not that young guys shouldn't dress well -- just that they, like all guys, must be aware of the image they present. An ascot is pure ornamentation, and such ornamentation on the young, worn in the necessary context, often creates an image of vanity and self-involvement. It suggests conspicuous wealth/privilege (see the Thurston Howell comments), and that the fellow disregards the opinions of his peers. Many people will find such an image offputting, and I can understand why.
> 
> ...


This is obiously a very well-thought out post, DocHolliday, and I respect all the time and thought that went into it. Unfortunately, I don't agree with all of it. You state that an ascot is 'pure ornamentation.' I disagree.

The books I have read on Men's Clothing state that the ascot was designed to keep a man's bare throat from being displayed in public--a thing no gentleman would ever do. I think one can take a stance (and support it rather strongly) that the necktie has evolved into a similar state of 'pure ornamentation' in today's society.

_Many_ have already posted in this thread that in their respective communities, they are equally as likely to be looked at twice for wearing neckties as they would for wearing ascots. I am not sure that wearing an ascot necessarily tags the wearer as being 'vain' and 'self-involved.' I believe we have seen from the posts in this thread that gentleman of all ages, from 19 on up, enjoy wearing an ascot and do not seem to be bothered by judging associates.

Let me reiterate that I respect your opinion re: ascots and your perception as to message wearing one sends off to other people. And let me hasten to add, that is only a perception that may be viewed as a rather strong one and not necessarily borne out by all the facts.

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

DocHolliday said:


> An ascot is pure ornamentation...


When I sported one to the pub on Wednesday evening, it sure help keep me warm in the midst of all of the bitterly cold weather we've been having in the northeast. That, in large part, is why I chose to wear it. So, there is some modicum of functionality to it.


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## Thurston (Aug 17, 2006)

A) Since I chose the screen name Thurston and the email thurstonhowell for all my online fora activities I guess I shouldn't look at any comparison to the character as a bad thing, but rather expected.

B) Maybe the populist solution to the neckwear issue is the dickey. We know that it's simply ornamentation, but the rest of the world will think it's actually a shirt.:icon_jokercolor:


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Thurston said:


> Maybe the populist solution to the neckwear issue is the dickey. We know that it's simply ornamentation, but the rest of the world will think it's actually a shirt.


Tricky.


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## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

*My suggestion*

When I wear them, I always make sure the neckband portion is folded in half so as not to obtrude above the back collar. I also knot it only once, keeping the knot small, and -- this is the important bit -- just undo the collar button of my shirt. Undoing anymore buttons on the shirt draws too much attention to it and risks making you look like a co-respondent.

And then, as an earlier poster said, forget about it.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

A huge difference is that while there are many situations where a tie is clearly overdressed, there are also many where it is still expected. If you are wearing a tie, you could very possibly be coming from someplace where it is expected, work, etc.

There is no place where an ascot is expected.

To some, a tie is an affectation. To most others, an ascot is a relic worn by playboys in the 1950s. There are precious few people who would even consider it.

Obviously, there is nothing to stop you from wearing an ascot. There certainly is no law against it. I don't care if you wear one. I would hope that we aren't advising people who come here for general advice to wear them, though.

I guess I live in a Midwest-type world where most people who might dress up at all would possibly wear a tie, but would never wear an ascot. Maybe in larger cities it is done. I have never seen anyone wear an ascot in real life. (I'm a 50 year old CPA.)

Wear it in good health if you want. Most people won't ridicule you to your face.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Thurston said:


> A) Since I chose the screen name Thurston and the email thurstonhowell for all my online fora activities I guess I shouldn't look at any comparison to the character as a bad thing, but rather expected.
> 
> B) Maybe the populist solution to the neckwear issue is the dickey. We know that it's simply ornamentation, but the rest of the world will think it's actually a shirt.:icon_jokercolor:


I couldn't find a photo to post, but I suspected this thread was going to get around to dickeys. I can't help thinking about Randy Quaid as Cousin Eddie in Christmas Vacation, wearing a dickey under a very thin white knit shirt, the outline of the dickey clearly visible through the shirt.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

This reminds me of thread I started a year or so ago. Since the time of this posting, I have seen an ascot or two in real life (incidentally always on an AAAC member). Alas, all of the responses to this thread were lost in the black whole of the old AAAC archives.



Barabbit said:


> I have been wondering this for a while. It seems odd to me that every member of this board would agree that spats and top hats have been relegated to being only acceptable as costume. However, some of the members would vehemently defend the appropriateness of other antiquated dress. I am thinking specifically of ascots. I would venture to guess that nearly 100% of people who are not ascot wearers would consider them an affectation if not costume. Why then are people not willing to let them go the way of spats?
> 
> Certainly, ascots have been far outside the mainstream for 50+ years which is at least as long as the tophat was gone when it was pushed into historical dress. I have never seen a person wear an ascot except on TV and if I did, I would think the person was sporting a rather glaring affectation. Why do they hang on while other things are discarded into the sartorial history books?


Finally I moved up in the world. Post 2000.


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## KCE (Nov 13, 2006)

A year ago I picked up a Brooks Brothers ascot on eBay, in a conservative navy blue pattern. I've only worn it once, and that was to a wedding last summer. I wore it with my seersucker suit, and tucked it into the collar of my shirt. I got a few compliments, not on the ascot specifically, but on my attire as a whole. But for the most part, I don't think anyone really noticed. In fact, I probably would have gotten more attention if I had worn a normal tie, as this was a fairly casual wedding. I regard an ascot the same way I regard bowties: while I love them both, they are not appropriate for everyday wear. I will be 24 next week, and I think that the pics posted of the Polo ads (I have also seen them in Macy's ads) show that ascots can be carried off with the right outfit, attitude and circumstances.


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## Vintage Gent (Jan 13, 2005)

Like Jan, I'm awfully fond of ascots, and have become even more so of late. Here's a recent photo:

https://imageshack.us


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Vintage Gent said:


> Like Jan, I'm awfully fond of ascots, and have become even more so of late. Here's a recent photo:
> 
> https://imageshack.us


_Great look,_ VG! How many buttons do you have undone to display the ascot? Have you ever considered untying one more?

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

*You're missing one vital thing....*

...to go with those ascots:


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

VG, take it from AQG that you've got just the look with the ascot tucked in demurely 'neath the sweater. It's subtle enough to avoid recriminations and can even be defended on the grounds that it keeps you warm when it's cold enough to merit wearing that sweater.


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## Thurston (Aug 17, 2006)

While technically wrong on a dozen counts, I think this outfit sported by Jeremy Piven works because of his personality.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Thurston said:


> While technically wrong on a dozen counts, I think this outfit sported by Jeremy Piven works because of his personality.


I agree, Thurston. Although not entirely sartorially correct, I still admire Mr. Piven bringing the ascot back into consciousness.

--Chase


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm quite happy to see all the discussion that's come forth on this topic, even though its not all consistent with my view. Indeed, it seems most posters have tried to work through the issue and consider different viewpoints. There are one or two haters who seem dug in and unwilling to consider anything other than their own view, but they're a minority and, in any case, that's probably to be expected. 

I have nothing more to offer, but just wanted to say thanks, guys, for giving this issue a good work over. Yet another (of many) reason I love this forum!


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## Vintage Gent (Jan 13, 2005)

Chase Hamilton said:


> _Great look,_ VG! How many buttons do you have undone to display the ascot? Have you ever considered untying one more?


Thanks, Chase. I've just the one button undone--helps keep the ascot from slinking down.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Chase Hamilton said:


> _Great look,_ VG! How many buttons do you have undone to display the ascot? Have you ever considered untying one more?
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> ...


Hmm. Anybody have any ideas as to how one would keep an ascot in place with more than one button undone, such as in the pictures of Jeremy Piven! (Though I'm not advocating showing as much of the ascot as he does!)

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Ascots should never be worn as low as the young man in that picture, and please also shave before you wear an ascot.

https://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot2mj9.jpg

https://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot1cl2.jpg


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

interestedinclothing said:


> Ascots should never be worn as low as the young man in that picture, and please also shave before you wear an ascot.
> 
> https://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot2mj9.jpg
> 
> https://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot1cl2.jpg


_Thanks_ for posting these, IIC! :icon_smile:

I love the pattern on the ascot the young man is wearing--but I agree: Way. Too. Low. 

Talk about "costume" and "trying too hard." He looks like he's about to step on stage as "The Silly-A$$ Englishman" (Reggie? Cedirc?) in a drawing room comedy.

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

FWIW, I wore one last night and don't think anybody laughed at me.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

This is a hoot: I'm standing in J. Press's Washington, D.C. Store at the intersection of 18th and L (a more dull, conservative and uninspiringly Trad shop I could not imagine), and guess what fills the stacked display table in front of me? A-S-C-O-T-S; a whole mess of 'em. There are at least 7 patterns (about 50 in all), only two of which (IMO) have any panache at all. And guess what else: they even have one displayed on a mannequin, i.e., they're actually promoting them for sale -- now, today (Feb. 11, 07)!

I can't imagine that anyone who shops at J. Press could ever be called pretentious, vacuous or foppish; dorky perhaps, but that's a whole other issue. 

Just thought I'd share.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

LARon said:


> This is a hoot: I'm standing in J. Press's Washington, D.C. Store at the intersection of 18th and L (a more dull, conservative and uninspiringly Trad shop I could not imagine), and guess what fills the stacked display table in front of me? A-S-C-O-T-S; a whole mess of 'em. There are at least 7 patterns (about 50 in all), only two of which (IMO) have any panache at all. And guess what else: they even have one displayed on a mannequin, i.e., they're actually promoting them for sale -- now, today (Feb. 11, 07)!
> 
> I can't imagine that anyone who shops at J. Press could ever be called pretentious, vacuous or foppish; dorky perhaps, but that's a whole other issue.
> 
> Just thought I'd share.


Oh, Ron, _thanks _for the update! I've spent the last couple of days canvassing Dallas, and the *only* store that carries ascots is The Polo Shop, and their ascots are, shall we say, "aggressively priced." Thank goodness I plan to be on the East Coast soon to visit family--I now have the added bonus of visiting J. Press as well! :idea:

Thanks again,

Chase

P.S. Where the ascots in J. Press silk? Did you notice how much they cost?

cah


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

https://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot3wy0.jpg

https://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot4ys4.jpg


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

interestedinclothing said:


> https://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot3wy0.jpg
> 
> https://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot4ys4.jpg


I *love* how the gentleman is wearing his ascot in the first shot--the perfect combination of the right amount of ascot displayed with incredible elan. :icon_smile:

Unfortunately, I can't take a shine to the gentleman in the second photo--looks more like he's wearing a muffler than an ascot. 

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

https://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot7zf4.jpg

https://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot8aa6.jpg


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

interestedinclothing said:


> https://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot7zf4.jpg
> 
> https://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot8aa6.jpg


Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis? 

--Chase :icon_smile_wink:


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

I live near a large mid west city and know of one gentleman, in his own business, and seeing clients all day who wears an ascot every day. He is probably 45 plus in age and French. Looks good on him..to me.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Chase Hamilton said:


> P.S. Where the ascots in J. Press silk? Did you notice how much they cost?
> 
> cah


You know Chase, I didn't even check, but Press tends to price on the moderate side. You may also want to check Brooks Bros., which is on the corner of Connecticut and M; I think someone noted earlier in the thread that BB is also showing them now (although I think they were referring to the NYC store. Still worth a shot.)

By the way, may I say that if anyone can carry off an ascot it should be a guy named "Chase Hamilton," which sounds right off of Philadelphia's Main Line.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

windsor said:


> I live near a large mid west city and know of one gentleman, in his own business, and seeing clients all day who wears an ascot every day. He is probably 45 plus in age and French. Looks good on him..to me.


If he also wears Belgian Shoes he's got most of the qualifications necessary to be an art dealer.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

LARon said:


> You know Chase, I didn't even check, but Press tends to price on the moderate side. You may also want to check Brooks Bros., which is on the corner of Connecticut and M; I think someone noted earlier in the thread that BB is also showing them now (although I think they were referring to the NYC store. Still worth a shot.)
> 
> By the way, may I say that if anyone can carry off an ascot it should be a guy named "Chase Hamilton," which sounds right off of Philadelphia's Main Line.


Or use your middle name when you sign documents, abbreviate your first name, adopt a title, etc.

C. Hamilton, Jr., E. Chase Hamilton, Chase Hamilton, III, etc.

Better yet buy a phoney signet ring and a pronouncing dictionary.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

LARon said:


> By the way, may I say that if anyone can carry off an ascot it should be a guy named "Chase Hamilton," which sounds right off of Philadelphia's Main Line.


Well, Ron, believe it or not, I was born in (drum roll, please!)... Philadelphia! :icon_smile:



interestedinclothing said:


> Better yet buy a phoney signet ring and a pronouncing dictionary.


Excellent idea! I thought I have the perfect pronouncing dictionary right here!

(I can learn to speak English in _eight_ other dialects!) :icon_smile_big:

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Thurston (Aug 17, 2006)

Well Chase, if you're visiting family in Philadelphia, stop at the Stein Mart in Downingtown. I purchased an ascot there last night and they have about a half dozen left. They are under their own T. Harris label, appear to be 100% silk and sell for $25.

After a bit of laughing at me, my wife did agree that an OCBD under a sportcoat looked better with this tucked in the neck than without.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Mulberrywood/Sam Hober made me up some beautiful silk squares to use as neckerchief/ascots. They came out very nicely.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Thurston said:


> Well Chase, if you're visiting family in Philadelphia, stop at the Stein Mart in Downingtown. I purchased an ascot there last night and they have about a half dozen left. They are under their own T. Harris label, appear to be 100% silk and sell for $25.


Thurston, you've given me a wonderful idea! :idea:

There's a Stein Mart a few blocks from here--I'm going to call tomorrow and see if they have any ascots in the store--I can't wait to try one on!

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## jjwest (Aug 17, 2005)

Chase Hamilton said:


> Thurston, you've given me a wonderful idea! :idea:
> 
> There's a Stein Mart a few blocks from here--I'm going to call tomorrow and see if they have any ascots in the store--I can't wait to try one on!


I've done well with eBay. Though buying in person is lower risk in terms of inspecting quality and dimensions. Always want at least 5 1/2 inches of width. The narrower ones just don't look right, IMHO.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

Nice little checklist one could make for "passing muster"

1. Am I decent looking, physically?
2. Am I self confident?
3. Am I wearing this somewhat more unique piece of clothing at an appropriate venue aka do I have common sense?
4. Am I able to purchase this item at a non-costume store?

I say, whatever your taste dictates, you can wear the item in question if you hit 2, 3, and 4, and it will only be enhanced if you are 1.

Look at Edward Fox in The Day of The Jackal.

I don't think I'd laugh at him...


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Coolidge24 said:


> Nice little checklist one could make for "passing muster"
> 
> 1. Am I decent looking, physically?
> 2. Am I self confident?
> ...


You make some good points. I have looked through old threads on 'pink shirts' and other things and often wanted to offer the same guidelines.

#3 is particulary important. Ascots are not to be worn on the job, as they are a reflection of leisure and not of business. Eschew ascots also at bus stops and in bad neighbourhoods. Finally, being under 40 (and absent in the 60s, when ascots were dying) and in the USA, I would not wear an ascot in the presence of an older member of my family, because I would not want to disrespect them by seeming affectatious. Exceptions would be made only on vacation at resorts or in other countries where the standards of dress are different, and an ascot is not an affectation (Italy, France, and perhaps some Asian countries).


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

interestedinclothing said:


> #3 is particulary important. Ascots are not to be worn on the job, as they are a reflection of leisure and not of business. Eschew ascots also at bus stops and in bad neighbourhoods. Finally, being under 40 (and absent in the 60s, when ascots were dying) and in the USA, I would not wear an ascot in the presence of an older member of my family, because I would not want to disrespect them by seeming affectatious. Exceptions would be made only on vacation at resorts or in other countries where the standards of dress are different, and an ascot is not an affectation (Italy, France, and perhaps some Asian countries).


Yeah I mean it sounds obvious to me...but that is pretty much the way I'd look at. You're not going to show up at the boardroom with the ascot. Or the bar. Well, not the neighborhood dive anyway. But you might show up at the cocktail party.


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## Cravate Royale (Nov 5, 2006)

*Ascots Images*



Chase Hamilton said:


> As a member here suggested, I've been watching movies to get a sense of a sartorial style I would like to adopt, and there is one look I've _definitely_ taken a shining to: the ascot.
> 
> I like the suave "completeness" that Cary Grant displays when he wears one with casual clothes--much nicer, IMO, than bearing an open throat to the general public. When playing Bertie Wooster, Hugh Laurie wears one when clad in pajamas. What a splendid appearance it makes! How could such a sublime statement such as this ever fade from the area of fine men's clothing?
> 
> ...


Chase

I have sent you a PM about Ascots with images

Sincerely,

Cravate Royale


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

As to the injunction against ascots in the workplace, I think if you work in a very casual office, as I do, there would be no harm in wearing an ascot. Few if any would have the sartorial sophistication to perceive it as a garment of leisure. To most of these types, wearing a shirt that buttons verges on "formal"!


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## Pechorin77 (Dec 21, 2006)

LARon said:


> You know Chase, I didn't even check, but Press tends to price on the moderate side.


I was in Press over the weekend and their ascots are pretty reasonable I thought at $65.00. Though I already had an armload of other stuff from their sale so I left the ascots for another day (they weren't on sale).

Has anyone had any experience with Turnbull ascots? I was going to pop over to the shop on 57th today to see what they have to offer.


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## Jay Gatsby (Jun 8, 2006)

I'm only 22 and wear ascots occasionally. However, when I get my real job, I'll never wear an ascot (or pocket squares, pink dress shirts, dress shirts with white contrasting collar, french cuffs, bow ties, boutonnieres) to work. I don't want to draw any attention to myself. I need to look serious, I'm majoring in psychology. I only wear ascots occasionally during my free time, among friends and family.

-Jay Gatsby


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

Badrabbit said:


> Since the time of this posting, I have seen an ascot or two in real life (incidentally always on an AAAC member).
> 
> Finally I moved up in the world. Post 2000.


I was also in attendance at one of these occasions and I must say that actually seeing seeing the look in real life is what make me start changing my mind about ascots.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

tripreed said:


> I was also in attendance at one of these occasions and I must say that actually seeing seeing the look in real life is what make me start changing my mind about ascots.


I agree it was done well on that occasion but even then all three of us expressed some surprise (or at least curiosity) at someone wearing an ascot. If it drew that much attention from us (i.e. men who know not only what an ascot is but also its history, lists of modern purveyors, etc...), it is sure to be something that is going to be looked upon as rather odd by the public at large.

I think everyone suggesting that a 20-something wearing an ascot is a mark of courage and suavity (without mentioning some huge caveats) is being borderline irresponsible.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I have to agree with Rabbit. 

This discussion is what got me to start the "role" thread. For sophisticated people who have no problem being out on the cutting edge, the ascot is one thing. For the average guy, it is totally something else. 

While a couple of you have expressed your disdain for the average guy on my thread, there are a lot more average guys than AAAC members and they rule the world we have to live in. For AAAC regulars, if you want to do an ascot, go for it, I suppose. I hate to see it being recommended for everyone, though.


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## skotdik (Sep 6, 2003)

Being the one who was caught in public wearing such an affected garment I will chime in with my expertise (or the lack there of). And the time I was caught by forum members wearing an ascot I feel that I truly did not pull it off. It was the wrong situation to wear it in considering I was in more casual attire while everyone else was in dress attire (although I still was better dressed than the majority of the restaurants patrons). It made me stand out more than if we would have all been in casual/resort attire. 

In most circles nowadays I receive many glares for wearing items that we would consider "normal". Wearing a tie when not at work (or even at work), church, or white tablecloth restaurant; wearing a suit/or sportcoat (even most lawyers/businessmen in this city don't wear suit jackets except in high profile meetings and court); oh, and if you wear a pocket square you've just about crossed the line to being effeminate. And lord help you if you are outside of your close southern trad circle and you wear a bow tie (I'm not southern trad but have been known to sport a bow tie every now and then). And the most grievous offense is wearing an ascot.

But I fear not. I am still trying to find the appropriate way to wear ascots. The correct amount of silk to show (I have found that the top button and at most the next button should be undone depending on the button stance of the shirt), sport coat/blazer, shirt collar type, French or barrel cuffs, color combinations, etc. I have failed several times to pull it off but have succeeded more often than not. Mostly it has to do with confidence. 

I still feel I am a little too young (33yrs old) to wear ascots more than what I am able to. Not being wealthy, retired, or eccentric (well I'm slightly eccentric). While I encourage people to give them a try I must urge you to do it only when you are extremely confident and are not worried about drawing attention to yourself. I love the look in a casual setting when a tie would be overdressed because I generally don’t like showing off my chest (unless I’m at a dance club trying to pick up some trashy women). But don’t try this look until you have mastered the basics in sartorial excellence. Proper fitting clothes and your basic wardrobe should be mastered before you seriously branch out. I fail at this regularly because I am young and do not work in an office environment. I feel the need to branch out prematurely to more eccentric items. I am able to pull this off because of my confidence but I urge others to perfect the basics and make them more acceptable in our world of ill fitting, mismatched, sloppy casual clothes before adding any items that might be peacockish. 

I feel that we have let too many sartorial items fall in to disuse and they are now considered taboo, eccentric, affected. Those hat lovers (fedoras, panamas, pageboys) out there understand. Until recently pocket squares were on the way out. Luckily we’ve stop that from happening for the time being. We’ve allowed business casual to dominate the office environment. Ties are considered excessive. Jackets/sportcoats are stuffy. Hats are not to be worn unless you are over 50. Double breasted suits. I’ve even been ridiculed for wear cashmere sweaters (too luxurious I guess). Notch label tuxedos are the norm.

So there it is fellows. Not recommened for everyone. But don't fear the satorial bullies if you choose to wear an ascot with confidence.


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

Badrabbit said:


> Finally I moved up in the world. Post 2000.


Oh, I meant to congratulate you on this in my other post. Well congratulations, nonetheless.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I have to agree with Rabbit.
> 
> This discussion is what got me to start the "role" thread. For sophisticated people who have no problem being out on the cutting edge, the ascot is one thing. For the average guy, it is totally something else.
> 
> While a couple of you have expressed your disdain for the average guy on my thread, there are a lot more average guys than AAAC members and they rule the world we have to live in. For AAAC regulars, if you want to do an ascot, go for it, I suppose. I hate to see it being recommended for everyone, though.


Wearing an ascot is not being on the cutting edge. Wearing an ascot is a salute to tradition. Any man who otherwise wears an ascot should consider his motives before he walks outside. For posing as pimps, playboys, and gangsters, it is a requirement that a man actually is one before he wears his ascot in public.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

JLibourel said:


> As to the injunction against ascots in the workplace, I think if you work in a very casual office, as I do, there would be no harm in wearing an ascot. Few if any would have the sartorial sophistication to perceive it as a garment of leisure. To most of these types, wearing a shirt that buttons verges on "formal"!


To put it another way, wearing an ascot is 'individualistic', and workplaces should be 'collectivist'. This is why the traditional suits for work are only navy and gray for example. Even in casual environments, polo shirts and khakis have become a uniform, putting everyone, except perhaps the boss, who may wear something loftier, on equal ground. This opens the lines of communication between everyone, increasing the effiency of the workforce.

It could also depend how you wear your ascot. If you wear it with a high or moderate stance I would say no, but if you wear it with a 'Jeremy Piven' stance you may escape notice. Outdoor work environments are probably the only places on the job for the traditionally worn ascot. Archaeological sites, botanical expeditions, and certain nautical excursions.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

interestedinclothing said:


> Ascots should never be worn as low as the young man in that picture, and please also shave before you wear an ascot.
> 
> https://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot2mj9.jpg
> 
> https://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascot1cl2.jpg


That bottom pic is of Edward Fox as the title character in _Day of the Jackal,_ no? Didn't he actually strangle the Baroness with that ascot? He was stone evil, but what was even more evil was the horrific Bruce Willis remake done of this absolutely brilliant suspense film. I don't recall BW trying to pull off an ascot, though. Thank God for small favors.

Edit:

Whoops. I take that back. That's a young Jeremy Irons in "Brideshead Revisited," of course. I will see if I can find a pic of Fox in DOTJ.

Update:

Bingo!

https://www.gonemovies.com/www/WanadooFilms/Misdaad/DayJackal1.asp


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I have to agree with Rabbit.
> 
> This discussion is what got me to start the "role" thread. For sophisticated people who have no problem being out on the cutting edge, the ascot is one thing. For the average guy, it is totally something else.
> 
> While a couple of you have expressed your disdain for the average guy on my thread, there are a lot more average guys than AAAC members and they rule the world we have to live in. For AAAC regulars, if you want to do an ascot, go for it, I suppose. I hate to see it being recommended for everyone, though.


That's nice you think so.

Average guys also wear olive colored Men's Wearhouse suits, $30 "dress shoes" and bad cologne. On casual occasions they are seen in sweats and t-shirts. Why should I care, or even consider, what these people think unless I am really going to spend a lot of time socializing with them?

I'm not advocating everyone should wear ascots at all times, and nor is anyone else on this forum. If you check above, several of us pointed to commonsense occasions where an ascot would or would not be fine.

If you don't run in circles where the ascot would be at least tolerated, then maybe you SHOULDN'T wear them. I mean if your employment and status and such depends that much on what you wear all the time, even out casually.

I see an ascot as no more daring than a madras jacket. I happily wear either. I don't wear either into work. I wouldn't dream of it. There is a place where the average man at least must be met. So I wear a suit. Granted, it is J. Press or older Brooks, not Men's Wearhouse. But it's a place where I have to interact with the average man above. I don't see this person in my social life, however. I really think a little tiny ascot inside your shirt collar is a wee bit different than showing up for work in a morning coat or wearing a cape around.

I suppose some people just live lives where neither of these would ever be acceptable in a casual social setting.

I'm sorry for them.


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

Here is me rockin' an ascot after a long day of labs. 
https://imageshack.us


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

Just today I saw an 60ish or 70ish year old man with an ascot. However, he was also wearing a sweat suit and white sneakers. I kid you not. The ascot was green with maroon paisly style patters. His sweat suit was dark grey. The ascot was tucked into the sweat suit top and the zipper pulled down a little to show it off. Really though..a FREAKIN' sweatsuit????


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

burnedandfrozen said:


> Just today I saw an 60ish or 70ish year old man with an ascot. However, he was also wearing a sweat suit and white sneakers. I kid you not. The ascot was green with maroon paisly style patters. His sweat suit was dark grey. The ascot was tucked into the sweat suit top and the zipper pulled down a little to show it off. Really though..a FREAKIN' sweatsuit????


Hmmm. Well, I guess that would be okay with some of the members who posted in this thread, after all, he was wearing an ascot but he wasn't a "twenty-something." :devil:

Kind Regards,

Chase

P.S. _Nice_ look, Bob! How many ascots do you own?

cah


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

Chase Hamilton said:


> P.S. _Nice_ look, Bob! How many ascots do you own?
> 
> cah


I own about four uncut full-sized (35" square) ascots and five cut ascots I wear to be less conspicuous (such as the one I have on now).

Here is a closer picture of what I wore after a (too) quick shave:
https://imageshack.us
I would not normally wear my second button unbuttoned such as how I am wearing it in this picture.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

burnedandfrozen said:


> Just today I saw an 60ish or 70ish year old man with an ascot. However, he was also wearing a sweat suit and white sneakers. I kid you not. The ascot was green with maroon paisly style patters. His sweat suit was dark grey. The ascot was tucked into the sweat suit top and the zipper pulled down a little to show it off. Really though..a FREAKIN' sweatsuit????


As a 60ish old man, I can say that age is no excuse for egregious sartorial incongruities of this sort. They are more grotesque than simply slob apparel!


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

As an experiment, today, I stopped by J. Press both to check out the spring collection and buy an ascot. Just for fun, you know.

I bought a navy one with white dots. I figured that was nice and conservative and not silly.

I put it on under a blue button down oxford, under the Brooks corduroy jacket.

I wore it to all of my classes and a Student Bar Association meeting.

Only 2 people said anything:

"Is that an ascot"
"Yes"
"Cool!"

He was wearing a Led Zeppelin t-shirt and jeans. 

and

"Heyy, an ascot! Now that is what I call a sense of style. That's so classic."
"Thanks"

Said not mockingly, not derisively, but seriously, by a city planner/law student who was wearing a standard dress shirt and chinos and whom I don't imagine is a frequenter of clothing message boards.

It really fills in that space when one wears a jacket and shirt sans tie. 

It's all about attitude and how you perceive yourself. I put the ascot on and looked in the mirror and I said to myself hey, damned if this doesn't look pretty good. And that was the attitude with which I went to class.

I completely agree that wearing a truly costumey type clothing, or a powdered wig or something, would be silly. But the two quotes above suggest to me what at least two ordinary looking male law students in the 25-35 age range thought of this effort.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Bob Loblaw said:


> I own about four uncut full-sized (35" square) ascots and five cut ascots I wear to be less conspicuous (such as the one I have on now).
> 
> Here is a closer picture of what I wore after a (too) quick shave:
> https://imageshack.us
> I would not normally wear my second button unbuttoned such as how I am wearing it in this picture.


Since I'm too shy to post my picture I admire the courage that you showed in posting yours. That said, you do have the right look for an ascot, though it is worth repeating that an ascot should be taut around the neck, and not slumped over the shoulders (see, for instance, the pictures on page 5 of this thread.) Your ascot's stance here is the 'Jeremy Piven' stance, for fashion-forward types, and isn't very kind to tradition, if that is what you are concerned with. For what it's worth, when I think of ascots worn anywhere besides yachts I think of a reserved and formal person. This is why the ascot is associated more with older than with younger men. But as someone correctly identified, one of the pictures on page 5 is of Charles Ryder of Brideshead Revisited, a college student at Oxford, who wears an ascot--a very reserved, earnest, and respectfully formal young man. Wearing an ascot on your chest, whether it is your intention or not, impresses a certain coolness on others, of a gangster or a sort of playboy. That may of course be your intention, but if it isn't I would advise raising your ascot as high as appropriate to make the distinction. I have never seen someone in an old film or an old picture wear an ascot that low.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Coolidge24 said:


> It's all about attitude and how you perceive yourself. I put the ascot on and looked in the mirror and I said to myself hey, damned if this doesn't look pretty good. And that was the attitude with which I went to class.


It always is.

Congrats on your experiment, confirming what many of us have been saying since this post began.

To all of you who've been wanting to try an ascot but haven't yet found the courage, take Coolidge's experience to heart. Gird your loins and get your attitude in the right place (if you help with that, go back and read my earlier posts).

Well done, my man.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

2 people gave you compliments. Most who would not say something complimentary say nothing. 

It's a free world. I don't really care if you wear an ascot or not.

If you want to take a disdainful tone toward those of us who choose not to wear things that "average guys" would not wear, that is your right, too. The pocket square, which I usually wear with sport coats and suits is far enough out for me. Almost no one where I live wears them either. 

Ah, those dreadful unsophisticated dolts they raise in "flyover" country.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I don't really care if you wear an ascot or not.


Hmmm. I'm confused, forsberg. On the other hand, you state you "don't really care" if folks wear an ascot or not; on the other hand, you've posted _seven times_ in this thread...

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Chase Hamilton said:


> Hmmm. I'm confused, forsberg. On the other hand, you state you "don't really care" if folks wear an ascot or not; on the other hand, you've posted _seven times_ in this thread...
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Chase


I had the same thought.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Ah, those dreadful unsophisticated dolts they raise in "flyover" country.


Hey, you said it, not me...

Given what average guys do wear, one does wonder what interest you would have in a clothing forum...I mean, I'm sure there's a J.C. Penney in range that could take care of all your needs without causing comments, silence, or making any waves.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I just inhabit their world. If you have decided I should buy my clothing at J.C. Penney, you are free to decide that.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

Coolidge24 said:


> Hey, you said it, not me...
> 
> Given what average guys do wear, one does wonder what interest you would have in a clothing forum...I mean, I'm sure there's a J.C. Penney in range that could take care of all your needs without causing comments, silence, or making any waves.


Mr Coolidge,

It's amazing to me that those of you who consider yourself to be so far above everyone else never seek to prove it by showing superior manners and class. Perhaps in your effort to distance yourself from the average you should work on these areas instead of insulting people who do not appreciate antiquated neckwear.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

Badrabbit said:


> Mr Coolidge,
> 
> It's amazing to me that those of you who consider yourself to be so far above everyone else never seek to prove it by showing superior manners and class. Perhaps in your effort to distance yourself from the average you should work on these areas instead of insulting people who do not appreciate antiquated neckwear.


Those of "us"? Well, sort of the pot calling the kettle black...it's okay to condemn people who have the guts to try new things by saying that everyone will be snickering at them. But condemn the throngs of snickerers, or those who cower in their snickers and one is Very Bad.

For my part I will apologize if I cause deep offense. I suppose the point has been made for either side.

Just having a little fun.


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

interestedinclothing said:


> Since I'm too shy to post my picture I admire the courage that you showed in posting yours. That said, you do have the right look for an ascot, though it is worth repeating that an ascot should be taut around the neck,


I recall my ascot was rather taut around my neck. I think it might just be trompe l'oiel appearing as if I am wearing it as a bandana. This particular ascot is cut and on the smaller side, so I can't wear it too high or my neck would be visible below the ascot.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

Coolidge24 said:


> Those of "us"? Well, sort of the pot calling the kettle black...it's okay to condemn people who have the guts to try new things by saying that everyone will be snickering at them. But condemn the throngs of snickerers, or those who cower in their snickers and one is Very Bad.
> 
> For my part I will apologize if I cause deep offense. I suppose the point has been made for either side.
> 
> Just having a little fun.


Re-read my posts. I never condemned anyone. I just stated my opinion that I thought a person in their twenties would look costumed or affected in an ascot. I also said that I thought all the suggestions to the contrary should have had some caveats attached. At no time did I say that someone would burn in hellfire or be thrown in prison for ignoring my advice.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Anyone can wear what they want. Whether it's a good idea for them or not is a different story. 

That's what I was discussing. I would not care if someone I dealt with today wore an ascot. I've just pointed out that a lot of people would. Most of them don't post on AAAC. 

If people want to post personal snotty things toward me, they say a lot more about themselves than they do about me. In my real life, people know what I'm about.

Flame away.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Bob Loblaw said:


> I recall my ascot was rather taut around my neck. I think it might just be trompe l'oiel appearing as if I am wearing it as a bandana. This particular ascot is cut and on the smaller side, so I can't wear it too high or my neck would be visible below the ascot.


Do you mean that the hanging blades or that the band that wraps around your neck is cut short?


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## eg1 (Jan 17, 2007)

*hmmm*



> Just today I saw an 60ish or 70ish year old man with an ascot. However, he was also wearing a sweat suit and white sneakers. I kid you not. The ascot was green with maroon paisly style patters. His sweat suit was dark grey. The ascot was tucked into the sweat suit top and the zipper pulled down a little to show it off. Really though..a FREAKIN' sweatsuit????


*burnedandfrozen*, was it, perchance, Al Davis that you saw? :icon_smile_big:


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

*Wow! *I had no idea that when I posted this question last Thursday, I would now be on the *seventh page* of this thread. First of all, a huge _Thank You_ to *all* who posted here--I'm a bit overwhelmed by the response.

I have learned a huge amount by reading all the posts contained here. What I've gleaned from all of this is that it is OK to follow your own style regarding what clothing you wear, so long as you keep in mind the impression you make to others while doing so.

Some things to factor in the mix include: your profession, the "circles" in which you travel, and what you want to say about yourself to others.

I believe what I have learned here is style in men's clothing has guidelines; but these guidelines are individual--what works for somebody else may not work for others.

This being said, I do agree that there is a finite line for which *no man* should ever cross because that would not be considered in bad taste or costume by other gentlemen. (e.g. frock coats, cloaks, and so on.)

I want to conclude by thanking _everyone_ for their interest--to those who posted here and those who contacted me via PM.

I know it has been said before, but I find the Fora here to be extremely informative on these issues and hope they are around for many years to come.

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

interestedinclothing said:


> Do you mean that the hanging blades or that the band that wraps around your neck is cut short?


Both! It was one of my first ascot purchases from a well-known ascot purveyor on ebay.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Bob Loblaw said:


> Both! It was one of my first ascot purchases from a well-known ascot purveyor on ebay.


I have the same problem with the band, though the blades on mine reach necktie length (I bought them from forzieri.com). I always assumed that the bands on ascots were standardized, and that it was contigent on having the right collar or button stance on a shirt to hide the edges of your neck. I wonder if in the past the sort of people that wore ascots simply bought special shirts with smaller neck sizes to use with their ascots. Surely the correct neck size isn't necessary on a shirt if the collar button will always be undone. Or perhaps it isn't a crime of fashion if a bit of neck shows beneath an ascot when one tilts one's head.

By the way, when you said that you bought from a known seller of ascots on Ebay, were you talking about the ebay seller moditalia?


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Chase Hamilton said:


> This being said, I do agree that there is a finite line for which *no man* should ever cross because that would not be considered in bad taste or costume by other gentlemen. (e.g. *frock coats, cloaks*, and so on.)


OOh!  You'd better take that up with Sator!


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Chase Hamilton said:


> This being said, I do agree that there is a finite line for which *no man* should ever cross because that would not be considered in bad taste or costume by other gentlemen. (e.g. frock coats, cloaks, and so on.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, Sator is free to start a "Mad For Frock Coats And Cloaks" thread, and start a discussion about them. That's exactly why I like it around here. :icon_smile:

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

KCE said:


> A year ago I picked up a Brooks Brothers ascot on eBay, in a conservative navy blue pattern. I've only worn it once, and that was to a wedding last summer. I wore it with my seersucker suit, and tucked it into the collar of my shirt. I got a few compliments, not on the ascot specifically, but on my attire as a whole. But for the most part, I don't think anyone really noticed. In fact, I probably would have gotten more attention if I had worn a normal tie, as this was a fairly casual wedding. I regard an ascot the same way I regard bowties: while I love them both, they are not appropriate for everyday wear. I will be 24 next week, and I think that the pics posted of the Polo ads (I have also seen them in Macy's ads) show that ascots can be carried off with the right outfit, attitude and circumstances.


Both a suit and a wedding call for a tie. A "casual wedding" whatever that means, does not mean wear an ascot with your suit.

A cravat (which I beleive is what we a re talking about here) is an item of casual wear.

Some seem to be thinking of them as a tie substitute for business attire or situations of similar formality (suit, blazer). And yes you should be ridiculed for wearing one that context.

And bow ties are not the same as a cravat. Bow ties are a legitimate substitute for a FIH tie with suit or blazer.

With a sport jacket, v-neck sweater, casual jacket, under a shirt, a cravat is fine. And certainly better than looking at neck skin and stray hairs.


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## wimbledonballs (Sep 22, 2008)

*cravats*

HI I LOVE THEM THE CRAVAT,
LOVE THE FEEL OF SILK AROUND MY NECK THEY FINISH A WEEKEND
OUTFIT OFF AND LOOK VERY SMART IT SATURDAY MORNING JUST
ABOUT TO GO OUT SHOPING IN LONDON AND I WILL BE WEARING
ONE TODAY. THE CRAVAT IS MAKING A COME BACK HERE IN LONDON
COME ON GUY START WEARING YOUR CRAVATS?????


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

wimbledonballs said:


> HI I LOVE THEM THE CRAVAT,
> LOVE THE FEEL OF SILK AROUND MY NECK THEY FINISH A WEEKEND
> OUTFIT OFF AND LOOK VERY SMART IT SATURDAY MORNING JUST
> ABOUT TO GO OUT SHOPING IN LONDON AND I WILL BE WEARING
> ...


Ah shopping in London. Where I first picked up on the cravat at its finest, as casual accesory, by observing gents walking around SW1 on a Sat. Not a suit or blazer in sight, but a number of cravats discretely worn under a shirt with v-neck jumpers and very casual jackets.
Cheers


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