# Corvette.



## eleccon (Oct 15, 2005)

I may soon be able to fulfill a longstanding desire by purchasing a new sports car. I have been strongly attracted to the new Corvette and recently had the opportunity to test drive an example. Overall, I am quite impressed, especially the performance-to-dollar ratio.

However, I have been surprised by the polarizing effect of this particular vehicle. As a card-carrying trad, I have been told that in effect, "You....are simply not a Corvette _person_. Only persons who can't afford xxx brand (Porsche, Benz, etc.) buy _those_."

Now, having spent some time on various fora, I must generally disagree with that overall perception of 'vettes being somehow indicative of a lack of class, and their owners automatically suspect of some criminal activity. I think they are vastly underrated as a sports car choice by the general masses, and today's version is a viable choice for any enthusiast.

My question is this: would owning this particular vehicle just cause too much "perception dissonance", causing one to be considered "one of those people", or have any other members of the trad set adjusted their boundaries with the times?

BTW, my present vehicle is German. And I don't really have an issue with swimming upsteam, as it were, in terms of perception. I'm really just asking what the members here think of the image of today's typical 'vette owner.

Strongly Contemplating Potential Polarization,

AE


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

ummm...do you like the car??? can you afford the car??? those should be the only questions that matter when purchasing a new car...other than that...dont really worry what others think...as long as you're happy with your purchase, that's all that should matter...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## P.J. (Jan 24, 2006)

Humbug. I say you should buy what ever you like.

Recently, there was talk about which gentlemans car one would like to have, but as long as you don't fit the middle aged balding identity crisis, you should be ok.


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## dorian (Mar 31, 2004)

Go for the new Z06, when it arrives. That is performance/dollar ratio for you.

Other wise, I'd rather have a bargain basement Audi.

And, yes, I'm a horrible snob.

ps - the driving pleasure (eg. general feel, steering and driving communication, engine noise, long term reliability, et cetera) you'd find more of in a Boxster of any year or level.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Buy the 'vette. Anyone hassles you, just tell them it's your "Go To Hell" car. Of course, I preferred my black '68 ... 4-on-the-floor 454 ... to the new models, but ...

*https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks **​


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

Find a car you truly love, and you will own that car longer than any other.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

If you need to be trad by a vintage vette, otherwise buy what you like...

guit


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Buy what you like. The Corvette has one if not the best performance to cost ratios EVER.

But you should try a used Porsche for the same money and read alot of reviews. I think you may change you mind. 16 LeMans Victories can't be all wrong.

Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

Personally I like trad cars better...

A vintage car will appreciate in value, so if you get tired of it you won't lose much money (you might even sell it for more than you paid!)

Vintage cars tend to have more personality. If you want something perfect, get a new Toycedes, I mean, Lexus, or one of those other made-up Japanese luxery appliances. If you want something idiosyncratic, go with a vintage car and love its faults. Personally I prefer the driving expirience of them.

It will also allow you to look down on people who drive _fuel injected_ cars [|)]

To quote Gone In 60 Seconds, regarding vintage cars to new cars.



> quote:Memphis: Perhaps, Mmmm. But, you know, this is the one. Yes, yes yes... I saw three of these parked outside the local Starbucks this morning, which tells me only one thing. There's too many self-Indulgent wieners in this city with too much bloody money! Now, if I was driving a 1967 275 GTB four-cam...
> Roger the Car Salesman: You would not be a self-indulgent wiener, sir... _You'd be a connoisseur. _
> Memphis: Precisely. Champagne would fall from the heavens. Doors would open. Velvet ropes would part.


---------------------

Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

True...but driving a classic car daily is not practical...I have a freind who owns a vintage Porsche...one fo the first 911's...and he rarely takes it out of the garadge...first off, you dont want to risk something happening to it on the road, secondly, it's kind of a myth that all classic cars appreciate in value...it's a very relative thing...true it was a 6 or 7 thousand dollar car when it was new and now it could fetch upwards of $110,000.00, but you'd have to pay at least that to buy a car of similar stature today...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

1) I assumed he was buying this as a second car, meaning practicality is not as much of an issue

2) Some choose not to drive them. But that's what car insurance is for...

3) I disagree about the value statement. There are a laundry list of specialty cars which are holding thier value or appreciating. Almost all of them are over 20 years old (notable exceptions being things like Land Rover Defender 90s and BMW M3 Lightweights, cars that are 10 years old but are still selling at near sticker price.) 

Any new car is going to lose thousands as soon as you leave the lot, and unless its subject to special circumstances, will continue to fall for 20 years or so. However you could buy a classic, drive it for a year, and probably get nearly the same from it. Try doing that with a 2006 Corvette.


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## berto (Nov 20, 2003)

I have a 2002 Z06 Corvette. Before this one I had a 2001 Z06.

So I can tell you that you are correct in sensing that Corvettes are very polarizing and the masses have strongly felt preconceptions that they will unload on you. Many of them somewhat negative.

They will tell you, Corvettes are for fat, bald guys with gold chains around their necks, trying to pick up young chicks. Corvettes are "Ferraris for ********." Corvettes are dangerous, have high insurance, and guzzle gasoline. You bought a Corvette to impress women. You are having a midlife crisis. And everyone has a [insert uncle/brother-in-law/best friend/you name it] that had one just like yours back in 1977.

Of course all of the above is about 99% false. The 1% that is true is that some knuckleheads do buy new Corvettes thinking that something glamorous will happen to them.

Fortunately, most Corvette owners are nice, normal folks. Most Corvette drivers cheerfully wave at other Corvette drivers on the road, especially if the two cars are of similar model years. All Corvettes are performance cars to some degree or another, but the new Z06 Corvettes are taking performance per dollar to all-new levels. My 2002 Z06, when new, was one of the fastest, best handling, and best braking cars one could buy at any price. The 2006 Z06 raises the bar even higher. So basically only the very wealthy should be looking at Ferraris or Porsches if performance is the objective. Only a few very new and very expensive exotics can approximate the performance of a new Z06, and even fewer, outrageously expensive exotics can clearly surpass a new Z06.

Please visit corvetteforum.com to browse and meet some nice folks with a variety of interests. It is one of the largest internet communities in existence. I particularly enjoy the Politics, Religion, and Controversy forum. There are some very bright and insightful people posting there.

Happy motoring.


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## kabert (Feb 6, 2004)

Let's face it, cars have images to varying degrees. Corvettes have a pretty strong image in America -- they've been around for over 50 years, they're fast, a little brash and sometimes macho and pushy. The same could be a stereotype for the typical driver.

I guess it comes down to the factors you consider important in a sports car:
- price
- image
- performance

Clearly you can get alot of value for your money with a Corvette (though I see the new one (the z06?) will be $65K). As for image, it's something you'll have to live with -- no two ways around it. You can get the same performance (though with much different feel and handling) for the same price if you buy a used 911 or Boxster or M5 or M3 -- with those cars though the image is quite different (more upscale).

Good luck.


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## Charley (Feb 8, 2005)

Interesting that someone would recommend a Ferrari.
This is a link offering one of those models for sale:

*1967 Ferrari 275 GTB/4 Serial Number 9909 GT*
https://ferraris-online.com/pages/carintro.php?reqcardir=FE-275GTB4-09909

What is somewhat interesting is the description, including
"Only 25,671 miles on the odometer. Very low miles on a rebuilt engine, transaxle, brakes and suspension."

Didn't the Yugo get more miles than that before the engines went out?


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by kabert_
> 
> with those cars though the image is quite different (more upscale).
> 
> Good luck.


It seems to me that anybody who has almost 70 crackers to plunk down on a car could have an upscale image if they wanted to...asking "what kind of guy drives a 'Vette?" is a little like asking "What kind of guy wears a pink shirt?"...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## Nantucket Red (Jan 26, 2006)

Though I've never been a Corvette fan, I think the 2006 iteration is the most beautiful yet. It has actually reversed the image I always had of the 'vette.

To my thinking, the truly low-brow American performance cars are the Camaro and the Firebird. The Corvette is in another class entirely.

-------------------------------------------------
God gave us women; the Devil gave them corsets.
- French proverb


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## berto (Nov 20, 2003)

> quote:You can get the same performance (though with much different feel and handling) for the same price if you buy a used 911 or Boxster or M5 or M3


I'm taking issue with this as another preconception, widely held by the uninformed masses that are not car enthusiasts, that is 99% false.

While there are several variables that will determine performance capability, power and weight eclipse all other factors. With 505 horsepower and 3,100 pounds, a 2006 Z06 has virtually no rivals. Boxsters have in the range of 200 to 270 horsepower and about the same weight...forget it. Better count on spending half a million dollars for a Porsche Carrera GT simply to keep up. BMW offers nothing new or used that can even come close at any price. With 405 horsepower and 3,100 lbs, my old 2002 Z06 is not too shabby, and neither is a new "regular" or convertible Corvette with 400 horsepower and about 3,200 lbs.

The next best alternate choice for performance at similar cost would be a used Viper, although I think they suffer under the "*******" image even worse than Corvettes. Oh well, to each his own.


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## eleccon (Oct 15, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies and opinions.

For the record, Berto, I am a member of Corvetteforum, but rarely post. I have indeed found the vette community to be a great representative cross section of America -- everyone from plastic surgeons to truck drivers. A great and inclusive bunch of enthusiasts.

I have also had the pleasure of a Corvette track day at Waterford Hills raceway back in June of last year. I came away thoroughly impressed with both the C5 and C6 versions. My friend also had a Doug Rippie built C5 Z06 which was somewhere in the neighbourhood of 550 hp. We enjoyed a few _very_ hot laps in that beast as well -- let me tell you, it had a level of power and control I thought was strictly the domain of purpose-built race cars. After that, I decided I simply had to have at least a C6....maybe even a C6 Z06.

My present car is a BMW, and I love it for what it does well. It certainly has a great balance of handling, power and refinement. But...there is an indefinable something missing. Maybe it has _too much_ refinement. Not enough hair on the chest? Whatever it is, the vette has it. I need it.

So, when all is said and done, I intend to purchase one. Image be damned. (For the record I'm 37, and have been married for 17 years. Still have my hair!) I love performance vehicles and base my purchases accordingly.

Great to receive the feedback from AAAC members. Thanks for your help.

--AE

**PS: I'd love to try a nice used Porsche 911 NA or Turbo. Maybe it's time to cultivate some new friends...


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Why buy a new Corvette when one can get










in the same price range?

https://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/dealers.detail/hmn_vehicle_id/228588/


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

(Well alright, maybe for a _bit_ more )


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## modsquad (Jul 2, 2004)

I've never driven one but from everything I've read the Z06 kicks ass in every direction. Ninety-nine percent of a Ferrari's performance at 25 percent of the price. Is Honda still making the NSX? That's also a budget supercar that costs about the same as a Z06, I think.


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## Siggy (Jan 14, 2006)

Vintage cars are a pain in the ass, both in upkeep and in driving...not comfortable or fun IMO.

A new corvette is a performance car. It is a bit limiting, such that I wouldn't want to drive it in any type of snow or in the winter months period, plus it only fits two. Its not the most practical.

If you are fine with its limitations, then go for it. If you only have one car though, I'd opt for something else of a German nature.


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## eleccon (Oct 15, 2005)

While having a huge advantage in terms of style and exclusivity, I agree that vintage cars have a big downside in terms of parts, maintenance, etc. These realities would be compounded on the Caribbean island on which I live. I already have enough difficulties dealing with my present vehicle and it's dealer(stealer)ship....

As far as winter goes, Siggy, that is now a not so fond memory. Just two seasons here -- Wet and Dry. Mind you, there's not many places to drive fast, but it seems a fair trade to me.[8D] Practicality is not so much an issue, as I have other vehicles. It's more of an image concern, one which I feel that I can live with.


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

Interesting thread, although it probably belongs in the Interchange.

A few points, in no particular order:

* There is such a thing as a "Corvette person". This year for the ALMS event at MidOhio, the Porsche Club area and "Corvette Corral" were in the same area and shared a common entrance. Mrs. FlatSix and I were sitting in the Porsche area watching the race when I had the bright idea of turning my chair around, watching the people entering the gate, and seeing if we could _predict_ which way the people entering would turn - towards their parked Porsche, or towards their parked Corvette? In fifty-some people over half an hour, we were _never wrong._ Some of them were easier than others, of course - the two men holding hands were obviously returning to the Boxster parked down the row from us!

* As a trackday car, it's hard to beat a Corvette in bang-for-the-buck, although every time it rains I take my F1 GS-D3-shod SRT Neon up to Nelson Ledges and beat up on the Z06es until they go home. Unfortunately, Corvettes are also unsatisfying track cars. Their tactile feedback is not as good as, say, a Logitech Playstation wheel and they are very, very wide. They're great cars to crash which is why you always see them in tire walls here in the Midwest, patiently waiting to be pulled out. Even the new C6 is not too easy to drive fast and well thanks to the lack of feedback. If you look at the 2005 One Lap of America results, you will see that I consistently thrashed a new C6 in my 238,000-mile Mercedes-Benz 190E track rat.

* As a street car, the low quality of the Corvette interior, together with the universally negative image mentioned above, make it a bit of a hassle to use. You'll also be a magnet for idiots on the road who want to race.

But if you really want one, go ahead and get it. People on this forum make bizarre choices all the time to satisfy themselves - I wear spectator shoes, for G-d's sake.

FWIW, my Corvette history is this: Long time fan, used to attend Bob McDorman's Midwest show with my father every year. Ran an LT4 C4 Collectors 'vert as a company car in the late Nineties. I've *almost* purchased a new Z06 three or four times - each time I've backed out after spending an hour or two in the car. I simply cannot stand the interior and the steering. My 911 is not as fast as any C6 but it's simply a better place to do business, and the doors close with a "ting" not a clunk-thunk.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

As for performance, you're not going to get to use much of it, so factor that in.

I'm assuming you live in Michigan (Waterford Hills track is there), so you're looking at using it 5-6 months of the year, if that matters. They are also tough to handle on the freeways, because the wide tires track the asphalt paving closely, riding up and down from the grooves. Not an issue with, say, a Boxster.

As for "what it says about the owner"; every car does this to some degree, and it wouldn't stop me from buying a BMW 330, just because 95% of them are owned by yuppies.

If you love it, buy it. If you merely like it a lot, don't.


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## baron (Jan 25, 2005)

I've driven the C6 Vette and, even in regualar, non Z06 guise, it's insanely fast, with incredible handling and braking. The interior is a huge improvement on the C5 as well. I'd love to have one as a second car, or an only car if I didn't need to haul my dog around so much.

And I think I'd revel in the irony of car's image. I may even grow a mullet.


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## 80FJ40 (Sep 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by berto_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Surely there are some serious suspension considerations. If you bolt a jato booster rocket to your Radio Flyer you would have awesome acceleration but it would not hang too well in the chicanes.

80FJ40


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

Car preference is like suits.....you may love Samuelsohn and I may love Canali.

If you like the performance/value relationship of the Corvette, get one.

If you are able to and prefer to buy a Porsche/Ferrari/Lamborghini do so.

Vettes, Porsches and BMWs all have very active track day opportunities. You will love whatever you get.

I was at Firebird Main this past weekend and had a great day dicing with a new 06 Viper Coupe, C5 Z06, and Porsche for a good 80 minutes of wide open no restrictions track time. A bit more restrictive track group had a Factory 5, older Lamborghini, Porsche's, and non Z06 vettes galore as well as the odd group of lesser street cars.

Enjoy,
Perry


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## Briguy (Aug 29, 2005)

Are you buying the car for you or to impress other people? If its for you, get what you like. 

I owned a 1995 C4 Corvette. The Vette was a bit crude, but it ran like hell, got 25 mpg on the highway (giving it a cruising range of almost 500 miles on a tank of gas)and made the most wonderful mechanical sounds, from the whirring of the 6 speed trans to the rumble of the exhaust. Sigh. 

No, its not a Ferrari. So?


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

I have to agree with the rest of the posters here that it really comes down to what you like and what you want.

If you're looking for a car to have some fun with around town without doing anything dangerous or illegal then the corvette is a great car for you. You'll have a great time going up to 45 very quickly, racing ghosts on the on ramp, and having the car hug you as you take corners with a little bit of speed.

That being said, if you're looking for something to perform amazingly on the track, that's the 911. You'll have a good bit of fun on the track with the corvette as well, but you have to know what you're doing to really get the full use out of the vette on the track. And now matter how good/bad you are on the track, you'll do better in the 911 than the vette out there.

If you're looking for a car that is very easy to drive quickly on the track to sort of learn on, the best car would probably be the RX8. Very forgiving car, very easy to recover.

The vette is a little bit harder, and you see alot of people who don't know what they are doing take them into the wall. So if you go with the vette I would suggest taking some lessons from a good instructor. In fact you should really do that no matter what car you own if you are looking to take it on the track, but especially with the corvette.

That being said, it isn't as scary as say the viper, where there is loads of grip but then all of a sudden it lets go without any sort of warning, and is pretty difficult to recover. There is a reason so many people wreck them. My favorite example, one of these car shows was taking out the new viper for a review, and they have their professional driver taking it on a windy mountain road. About 3 or 4 turns into it, the car just breaks loose and he goes over the side. Luckily it wasn't that big of a drop, but it just goes to show you how deceptive the car can be.

Now in the same price range as the vette the only real competition is the boxster. The boxster is has a better interior, more dependable, etc. But as the saying goes, the only reason to buy a boxster is because you can't afford a 911.

My opinion is that unless you're going to go all the way and go for the 911, go for the vette. But I have to admit my own biases here. I don't like the boxster because it isn't the 911, I love the engine on the corvette, and most of all I love that we americans have built at least 1 car right.

But at the end of the day it is all about which one you prefer, and which car was built for what you need. For example, I had a friend who loved the mazdaspeed miata on paper. He read all the glowing reviews, saw it in action getting thrown around, read up on the history and specs. He loved the bang for the buck, bullet proof engine, that it was a convertible, was so easy to toss around, etc. But then he went and test drove one. Well he's 6'5." Needless to say the miata wasn't built for tall people. He couldn't get comfortable, had to bend forward so he could see out of the windshield, horrible experience.

So really, no matter how great a car is for everyone else, if it wasn't built with you in mind, it's the wrong car.


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## Dolle Dolf (Feb 7, 2006)

The Vette is the best performance car value on the market but I feel that it lacks in ambience, and if it matters to you, image. I recently sat in one during a car show and did not like the seat, the smell and the tactile experience of the interior. You will use the interior of the car every day even if only commuting. The time that you will use the terrific performance potential of the Vette will be very limited at best, quite likely even none if you don't track it. 

Another terrific sports car value is a Maserati Coupe, slightly used Gransport, or a Spyder. The Maserati has a sweet interior, likely to please the most discerning. The Maserati Coupe is also a true 2+2, which for a married guy is great if the kiddies want to come along. It is however not a Ferrari, which may be a disadvantage, or an advantage. These go great with a Canali suit. 

The best all round sports car in this segment is probably the Porsche 911. However this car is ubiquitous. The Boxter is a terrific car and the Cayman seems to be even better. But none of these are 911s, and if you get in them you know it. Benzes and Beemers are on very sreet and look boring. The Bangled Beemers are an abomination. 

The new Aston V8 is a great looker, and will get raves everywhere. You may not be able to get one for a while though. Pure 2 seater. Terrific image. Probably a bit more expensive than the Vette ($90k?)

The new Jaguar XK looks sweet. Auto tranny only though, albeit with flappy paddles. Apparently much improved from the old XK8. Great image in the US (in the UK jags are more of a "wide boy" car). 

As a long time Alfa Romeo man and classic car lover I have a lot of experience running classic cars and old bangers. You can easily use a classic as a daily driver, provided you have one or better two more as backups, a specialist mechanic nearby, and the distances covered are not too long. Classic cars indeed do have a style and character that is often missing from more recent designs. Personally I feel that cars of the 90s have improved so much technologically and ergonomically, that byuing a classic and trying to run it as a daily driver is not a sensible proposition as for the same money you can run a splendid almost maintenance free 1990s or later car without the headache. 

Some car stereotypes:

Vette: youngish, Springsteen look, jeans, white T shirt, big biceps, ballcap. Or balding, early middle age, slightly overweight, leather jacket, khakis, loves beer and steaks and burgers, and plays Springsteen on the radio because he wished that he still looked like the previous guy, wears a Tag-Heuer but would love a Rolex. Fun loving harmless guy with a nice family. 

jag: US: well off blue haired, in FLA with a Noo Yawk-Joisey accent, in unisex tropical shirt, ballcap and shorts. The old Bulova still goes if you whack it now and then. 
UK: late middle age, OTR suit, loud tie, TAG or Rolex, either swallows "h", "T" and pronounces the "r" as a "w" in case of the Cockney wide boy, or pronounced "up" as "oop" and says "aye" instead of "yes" in case of the overpaid trade union boss. Has an ego, can be fun but also annoying has hell. 

Aston; young middle age, at least MTM clothing, JLC, VC or AM, nothing loud or superfluous, wine club member, eats red meat but only in civilized portions and only the best quality. Quite likely single and a bit full of himself. 

Porsche 911: young middle age, slim, business casual attire, health club member, avoids red meat. That nice quartz watch still keeps time prefectly. A bit of a bore, as is his very pretty wife. 

Ferrari: red or black mid-engined V8: late middle age, too much money, overcompensating for loss of youth. Of course a Rolex. The biggest one with lots of gold. Kids are gone and wife has been traded in. 
grey or blue front engined V12: late middle age, too much money, at peace with loss of youth. Anything But Rolex. 

Benzes and Beemers: just about everyone who found out that they don't need an SUV or minivan anymore and that a Camry is a boring car. 

Maserati: Can't afford a Ferrari. Does not want a Ferrari. Tries hard to convince himself and everyone else of the latter.


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## DressPRMex (Jun 20, 2005)

IMHO, the Vette speaks too loud to denote any style whatsoever.

Whenever I see someone stepping out of a recent/new vette, I think to myself: "mid-ass drug dealer". These people are often wearing silk shirts, black jeans and pointy boots [xx(]

Don't get me wrong: I am sure that most vette owners are really nice people, and also that the vette is a great performer for the buck (great 0-60 specs, heavy hp and all that jazz), but so is a dragster, if you know what I mean.

If you are thinking of purchasing a newcar, and want to spend aprox. $67K (for the Z06 version with super-sized soda and fries), my take is that you can find something which is also very sporty and fast, but that is also more refined and subtle. If you are willing to go second hand, then the sky is the limit to what you can get nowadays for that green, provided you know your stuff about knots and bolts.


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## eleccon (Oct 15, 2005)

*Dolle, DressPRMex & FlatSix,*

Now you have me reconsidering my choices...I had almost made peace with the whole image thing. Your points about subtlety and personal style resonate a bit with me. Perhaps I do owe it to myself to at least try a 911 (or something comparable) first. Just as good a reason as any to hop over to the US.

I do like the irony as well *Baron*. I used to have a mullet (and a Camaro!) waaay back in my misspent adolescence.


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## Kai (Jul 30, 2003)

Buy a C6 Z06.

These are amazing cars. A terrific blend of performance and everyday drivability.

I'm not a big fan of the regular (non-Z06) vette, but the new Z06 is one of the best cars on the planet.


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## Dolle Dolf (Feb 7, 2006)

Eleccon, don't get me wrong. Corvettes are terrific cars and there are great advantages to owning a car that you can bring to a nearby Chevvy dealer for minimal maintenance and repair costs. OTOH, $65k will get you into a 1996-7 Ferrari 456GT. One of Pinifarinas best designs, some consider it his finest. This car cost new $225k. And you can tell. It has a gorgeous interior. Of course it gulps gas like a drunken sailor, and maintenance is relatively expensive, count on $1k per year and once every 5 years an "engine out" service to replace cambelts. a $5k jobbie. OTOH, it will likely not depreciate much more. It is a work of art. If maintained it will be an heirloom. Mid-engined F355 are in reach for that money also.

The Vette will get all the thumbs up. The F-car will only get the nods of appreciation from the cognoscenti. The Maser will get all the "what is that". The Aston will get, as Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear said it, will make people want to have your babies. The new XK will probably get you close to that. The 911 will get keyed (at least in the UK).

If it were between the Vette and the 911 I might actually pick the VEtte. It is just that more exuberant than the Porshe, which is too restrained and soulless for me. I would go for the regular version then, perhaps the convertible, and keep the change for some nice shoes and such  The Z06 does not offer open top motoring, and I just don't see where the abundant performacne would come in, unless you plan to track it regularly, and are competitive. I would actually go for a test drive and if I would consider the 911 that more refined I would allow myself to be blown over. Road and Track put the cars side to side, and the Vette won, but only because it was $20k cheaper. All reviewers marveled at the power of the Vette, but all equally marveled about the 911's composure and refinement.

I have lusted after the Masers for quite a while. To me they have the "brio" that the Aston lacks. Without any of the vulgarity associated with the Ferraris. They are very close to a F360 performance wise. Especially the Gransport. They can be used as daily drivers. Maintenance more expensive than the 911 but significantly less than the F-car.

Check out the forums at www.maseratiforum.net and www.ferrarichat.com. Many car to car comparisons and owner experiences there. Many own several cars and are able to compare them first hand.

$65k is a lot of dosh, no matter how much the relative "bargain". Get what you like and what you want. To me the image is an added bonus. But no way a deciding factor. Good luck.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

vette vs. 911, sorry, I have to take the 911, any vintage. Better yet, give me an old bathtub.

guit


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## DaveInPhilly (May 16, 2005)

I love the Vette. I have been facinated with the care since I was a child. My tastes have grown slightly, I drive my boss's 911 every now and then, and I am absolutely in love with the car, but to be fair you can't step into a 911 for less than $20k more than the Vette. 

You can always do what the guy in the office next to me does, but the Vette and a Bimmer.


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

I've driven all 3 cars. I love cars.

Corvette: again, greatest performance/value car out there. hands down. However, Porsche makes the better overall car imo.

911 GT 1,2,or 3: Any 911 is amazing. demanding alot from the driver to handle with care. If you love to drive and like to push a car the 911 is so satisfying. It demands of a driver.

The Boxster S: 90% of a 911 at 1/2 the price. Convertible with a detachable hardtop. Mid engine stability and agility that can play head games on 911 owners

--- Personally, joking aside, The Boxster S is my choice. It has a look about that is just amazing at all angles. And if you want 911 performance, you can tweak it to kick the 911 to the curb. Depends on how much money you want to throw at it. However, the 911 demands speak to the driver in you. A 911 driving class should go with every purchase. 

If money is no object I consider this car below Truly The Ultimate Drving Machine, this is what you get when you quit LeMans, and devote money toward consumer super cars, Perfection:

Decisions, Decisions.



Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style


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## m kielty (Dec 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> Why buy a new Corvette when one can get
> 
> ...


Because it will start up when you turn the key?

mk


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## MarkY (Mar 24, 2005)

As far as a 911 vs the Vette, other than both being sportscars there isn't a lot in common. I own a 911 and have driven several vettes.

A 911 will never out run a vette in a straight line unless you're talking about a GT or a turbo. Even turbos aren't fast until they spool up. If you throw a few turns into the mix, the story changes.

Vettes are awesome cars, but like anything GM produces it will rattle and sound like it's falling apart in about 2 years. Way too much plastic as well. They also don't hold their value well at all.

Vettes are way easier to drive than 911s although the new 911s aren't quite as tempermental. 

In my experience "Vette people" are a much more down to earth crowd and a pleasure to be around. I can't really say this about "Porsche people". A lot of them are posers with their nose stuck way up in the air. Hence, the Porsche prick joke.

Dollar to raw power ratio, a Vette kicks Porsche's ass. Vettes are also a dime a dozen. A 911 is an engineering masterpiece that has a tradition and history the Vette can't come near. The 911 is also a much more beautiful car that you'll turn and look back at every time you park it.

The bottom line is to purchase what YOU want. Who cars what "stigma" is associated with it. If you have your heart set on a Vette, get one and drive it in good health. I've heard there is a waiting list for the new Z06.

BTW, a Boxster is a chick car. The "S" a little less so. Maybe you should try out the new Porsche Cayman.

Mark


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

The engine placement is what asks alot of the driver in the 911 and the raw power; but also hurts it in cornering. inertia and all.

If the Boxster had a 350hp flat-6 and wider tires it would wipe the floor with the 911. I find it humorous when people say the boxster S is a chicks car (usually only comes from 911 owners.lol) To say the Boxster which closly resembles and inspired by one of my favorite cars the 550 spyder









I think the Boxster is a sweeter looking car.But as Porsche will never let that happen the 911 will always be faster than the Boxster. However, there have been some Boxster S's enhanced that would be hard for any 911 to beat other than in the Straight Away.

Check out Evo race comparisons: 911 was able to achieve greater straight-line speeds around the Bedford Aerodrome the Boxster S was able to generally corner faster due to its differing dynamics. Ultimately the Boxster produced a faster lap time than the 911 much to the road testers surprise.

Despite the Boxsters quicker time around the curcuit however, the general opinion was that the 911 was the overall superior machine, perhaps this is an indication that Evo (and i have to agree) take other factors into consideration(and i have to agree) than simple lap times when considering the most rewarding machine, most of which have been discussed in this thread already. But that being said I find the Boxster S for the money, everyday driving, convertiblity, looks primarily, and cornering/agility performance to be an amazing package.

Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style


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## MarkY (Mar 24, 2005)

In my post above, I didn't mean to slight the Boxster in perfomance. It is a very capable car as you've described above. I based my description of it as a "chick's car" based purely on looks. I realize this is quite shallow, but it just looks like a car a girl should be driving. 

But then again, I find that most 2 seater "roadsters" look like chick cars. The 350Z (not the coupe), the S2000, Z4, etc. The Cobras being an exception. That Spyder you posted is pretty awesome as well.

Mark


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## eleccon (Oct 15, 2005)

MarkY,

I do have a bit of experience with the standards of GM / Ford quality. That long-gone 89 Camaro of my youth was the single most abusive automotive relationship of my life. My very first car, a Mustang GT, was a very close second. I loved them both, but they ran for no more than a week before grenading some part or another. Rattling doors (and how I remember that long, heavy and clunky IROC door) would have been a welcome problem in light of transmission / computer / fuel injection failures.

I eventually graduated through various Japanese and German cars. I grew quite accustomed to a certain level of build quality and refinement. It wasn't until I'd seen the new C6 that something just sort of reawakened the desire for a lusty V8. After driving both the C5 and 6 basically back-to-back it was almost 'game over' that I would get one. The thought of a new Z06 could also be entertained...

Perhaps asking for the opinions of my peers is all a pretense to revisit those cars from my earlier days. If that's the case, I see the car as no less engaging and beautiful because of it. In terms of choice, right now it's 80% vette, 20% something else. 

After all, someone needs to help erode those stereotypes.

--AE


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## DressPRMex (Jun 20, 2005)

I am surprised no one so far has mentioned the Lotus Elise, or the Elan, for that matter.

I have had the extreme pleasure of racing one before and I can tell you it is the most fun thing one can do with their clothes on![]

Incredible figures, true Sir Collin Chapman lightweight and ground effects philosophy, it handles better than a go-kart and you can get yours, new, for less than $50K.

I don't know if this is an every day car, simply because getting in or out of its cockpit is a bit of a hassle. Regardless, these two Lotus models are a Raceman's dream come true.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by m kielty_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry you have that problem.


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## m kielty (Dec 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Touche'

mk


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

You begin this thread by stating in your post that you are a "card-carrying trad".

The absolutely most completely trad _attitude_ to have is to not give a damn what anyone thinks and buy whatever the hell car you want to drive, other people be damned. Perhaps it would not occur to a true card carrying trad to post the question on this board. I don't know. I do understand the dilemma you have explained. You are looking for a sense of congruence, I think.

So, from a pure trad perspective, there you have it--buy what you _want_ plain and simple.

Others above have done quite a nice job of deconstructing the nuances of the images of various cars, so I have nothing to add there.

You've been encouraged to go virtually every different way, so I've nothing to add there.

My only piece of advice is to look long and deeply inside yourself and if you still find yourself craving or wanting a car, whatever kind it might be, to go with your gut. When you get in the right car, every sense in your body and every cell in your brain should be shouting "this is the one". Listen to your gut/brain continuum.

Markus


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> Why buy a new Corvette when one can get
> 
> ...


I advise getting that sort of car; much more stylish than a Corvette.
*"In truth, I am not altogether wrong to consider dandyism a form of religion."

Charles Baudelaire*


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

This one is quite nice and available right now. Please buy it so that I stop driving by to look at it.


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## eleccon (Oct 15, 2005)

*Markus* wins. You've also hit it right with my concerns on congruence. I'll have to deal with that.

I do feel the vette will be the car that ignites a long-term relationship. In retrospect, I think most of my recent carriages have not engendered any real passion. Have they been pleasureable to drive, with a good (safe?) image? Absolutely.

The vette, though, is what I _really want_. But to be fair to myself, I will still make an opportunity to try a 911 (or something comparable) before I place an order.

I just cant do those vintages or 10 year old exotics, though. I think would be setting myself up for another vehicle neurosis. The reality of maintenance, parts, tools, manuals, learning curves and general driving paranoia would set in as quickly as the inevitable emotional attachment. I should probably mention that about 8 years ago I spent a year of nights and weekends restoring a 15 year old motorcycle....one time around with _that_ was quite enough, thank you.

--AE


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

So lightning does strike twice in the same place...LabelKing and IamMatt seconding me, in adjacent posts no less! Thanks, gentlemen


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

What is the intended purpose for this car? Are you looking for a track car?

All of these comparisons of performance are reall just fantasy off the track. Once you reach a certain level of performance, there is very little to be gained by seeking additional performance out of a street car. The difference between 300 and 500 horsepower in a 3000-3500 lb car is very small in regular driving - the differences can only be experienced (by a responsible individual) at the track. So if you are picking a car for regular street driving, look for other factors aside from performance (reliability, looks, fulfilling a dream, safety, $$$, etc.).

If you are looking to get a track car, then you will need to factor in a whole boatload of other issues.


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## eleccon (Oct 15, 2005)

It's definitely a street car *pleasehelp*. No tracks where I live. 
I just happened to be able to spend some time at Waterford Hills while in Michigan on business.

It's more a combination of your first three 'other factors'. It is also nice to have that extra power available, if and when one needs it.


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> So lightning does strike twice in the same place...LabelKing and IamMatt seconding me, in adjacent posts no less! Thanks, gentlemen


Classics are classics. Upkeep be damned.

*"In truth, I am not altogether wrong to consider dandyism a form of religion."

Charles Baudelaire*


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## tricket (Aug 23, 2003)

How about this?

https://imageshack.us


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tricket_
> 
> How about this?
> 
> https://imageshack.us


Chavmobile maximus.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by eleccon_
> 
> MarkY,
> 
> ...


Interestingly much of the world has not yet realized that Mercedes Benz quality has been abysmal recently. The trade knows. As a friend at a MB dealership commented....It is not surprising that our customers expect their cars to run after paying over $100,000 for them....

The new Chairman of Daimler Chrysler (in his takeover press conference) recently mentioned that quality was like a savings account.....He admitted that recently MB (nee Daimler Chrysler) has been withdrawing from that account and now it was time to start making deposits. Hopefully he is correct as I would hate to buy a MB and have it give me the same performance as the mentioned 80's Camaro or Mustang for about 5 times the cost.


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## Shoe-nut (Feb 8, 2006)

As long as were posting pics of cars here are a few more.





































Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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## m kielty (Dec 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LabelKing_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like a chick car.
Jessica Rabbit maybe?[}]

Eleccon,
Buy the 'Vette.
The only other choice is the Porsche,(not the Boxster).
Porsche has become a stealth vehicle,there are so many on the road you don't pay attention to them anymore.
The new Corvettes are eye candy.
Go for it!

mk


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## m kielty (Dec 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Shoe-nut_
> 
> As long as were posting pics of cars here are a few more.
> 
> ...


That's one helluva junk yard. 
Where is it?

mk


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Maybe because you can keep the vette on the road.......this baby will live in the shop, beautiful as it is, it is for someone with many cars.



> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> Why buy a new Corvette when one can get
> 
> ...


guit


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## Shoe-nut (Feb 8, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by m kielty_
> 
> That's one helluva junk yard.
> Where is it?
> ...


On my cousins property he has at least 200 cars there.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Is he going to do anything useful with them, or are they too far gone?



> quote:_Originally posted by Shoe-nut_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


guit


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## Shoe-nut (Feb 8, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> Is he going to do anything useful with them, or are they too far gone?
> 
> guit


He has some decent cars but most of what is down in the hollow on his property (where pictures are taken) is not anything you would want to have unless you like projects. He is in need of money now and is quite inclined to sell off some of this stuff. But I don't see a flood of people lining up to buy any of it.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by eleccon_
> 
> It's definitely a street car *pleasehelp*. No tracks where I live.
> I just happened to be able to spend some time at Waterford Hills while in Michigan on business.
> ...


The funny thing about dreams is that they often will not accept substitutes. The other funny thing about dreams is that when they come true, they are rarely as good as imagined. You have to balance the practicality of a sports car against fulfilling the dream.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

If you buy your corvette please don't do this:

https://flickr.com/photos/pwosel/sets/72057594062797676

Perry


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## eleccon (Oct 15, 2005)

Well, after a few more days to think on it, I'm going with my gut.*

It's the vette. And yes, I'll keep it stock....no foolishness. Yes, it appears that it can also be a gentleman's car.

*Reminds me of a quote from someone. I'll mangle it here:

_"I've been going with my gut since I was 15, and I have to say that, after 25 years, my gut is full of sh_t!"_

Thanks guys,

--AE


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Enjoy the car and be safe.


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