# What's so great about Bills Khakis?



## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

This is the question that I found myself asking after hearing so much about them here on AAAC. I went to a local men's clothing store to try on the various models to see for myself. They were "ok" but there was no way I could imagine paying $145 for a pair of khakis! So I ended up getting 3 pairs of m3s from Sierra Trading Post ($40 each for bark and red vintage twills and $63 for a pair of khaki driving twills)... So after wearing the vintage twills for about a month, here is my list of things that ARE SO GREAT about Bills Khakis. I am in love with these pants!!!

- an extra beltloop. 8 is better than 7! It might not seem like a big deal but it makes your belt fit so much better

- wide waistband. Very comfy

- wide opening fly. Most flat front pants I have ever owned were really hard to get the fly open to take a leak. It's really neat the way the fly on the m3s is cut. It's hard to describe this if you don't own a pair. 

- deep pockets. Although I do wish that there was a pocket separater in the right front pocket like there is in some of my other dress slacks. 

So that's it for me. What about you guys? What is so great about YOUR Bills Khakis


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Strange, but the fly is a major advantage.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

They feel like real khakis.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

I clicked on this thread fearing to see yet another "what, why?!" question type thread - and was quite surprised to find such accurate, direct positive comments!

I don't have any of the M3's (yet!) but I definitely agree with your comments nonetheless - Bills Khakis are a quality item. I will submit, though, that they are best purchased off the Exchange / Ebay or on sale via STP or other sources!


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## goplutus (Jun 4, 2005)

deep pockets, thick fabric, hearty stitching, many belt loops (i trust the 8 count)


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## erbs (Feb 18, 2008)

The cloth and cut are excellent.


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

+1 to cloth and cut. For me the revelation was that they feel better after 10-20 washes.... broken in not broken down. I also appreciate the fact that they can make full enough waist/upper thighs with a tapered leg opening. It's a small thing, but something often missed in size 40 waist pleated causal pants.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

ohh...thought of another one: availability in even AND odd sizes!


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

un-hemmed.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

The price. They routinely pop up on the exchange and still last forever.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

the cut: M1s look great on some people, for my skinny butt, M3s work best, M2s work fine. Also, Bill's poplins are wonderful lightweight wash pants.


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## brozek (Sep 24, 2006)

I've been thinking about getting a pair from STP, and this thread put me over the edge. Can anyone comment on whether they run true to tagged size?


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## Ripley (Oct 19, 2010)

Bills run true to size, not a fraction of vanity sizing in my experience (M3s are what I've tried).


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## tlocke (Jan 9, 2010)

I agree that they improve with age. For some reason the fabric seems to hold its crease better as they get older. I wish they made a short rise though.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

M3 vintage twills run true to size for me. M3 driving twills run slightly bigger. I wear 32 and 31 respectively.


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

tlocke said:


> I agree that they improve with age. For some reason the fabric seems to hold its crease better as they get older. I wish they made a short rise though.


It is precisely the high rise (gets a tad shorter as the model numbers rise from 1 to 3) that makes them appealing to some of us who either do not look good in the low rise pants practically everyone else makes now or who find low rise distasteful on anyone -- trad dogma for some. What members of this forum have wished for is what Bills, or anyone I know of, does not make. High rise (like M1), trim (like M3) tapered (like M1) khakis with on seam pockets (like M1 or M2). Like the true natural-shoulder sack jacket and suit, such an item, long ago standard trad gear, is a bit of a chimera.


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## AAF-8AF (Feb 24, 2009)

YoungClayB said:


> M3 vintage twills run true to size for me. M3 driving twills run slightly bigger. I wear 32 and 31 respectively.


Is there much shrinkage with washing?


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

When washed and dried at home, a little, over time; it's best to wash and dry a couple of times before having them tailored.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

tlocke said:


> I agree that they improve with age. For some reason the fabric seems to hold its crease better as they get older.


Agreed, although recently I've started ironing mine flat, without a crease, and I actually like the look better that way. I don't know why, but it seems more authentic, more like the khaki's you would see in a WWII movie set in the Pacific Theater


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

[QUOTE For some reason the fabric seems to hold its crease better as they get older. I wish they made a short rise though.QUOTE]

I agree with both statements. I often drive about an hour, spend a few hours in and out of offices, restaurants, etc., then drive another hour. Bills seem to survive this experience looking crisper than other (even higher end) brands.

For a short, athletic build, the M3's are the best of the Bills, but a J. Crew-style pant that sits on the hips would be welcome.


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## tlocke (Jan 9, 2010)

For me the short rise is not a matter of style or taste, just genetics. I am 5'7'' tall.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Where does everyone buy their Bill's, direct? at a B&M? or somewhere else? I notice some styles appear on Sierra Trading Post.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

STP for me: m3s were about 50 bucks last year, so were m2 poplins. Big lots seem to pop up there from time to time. They've also usually got the "vintage twill," as well as the regular one, a nice soft fabric.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

I also iron mine flat. I think pressed khakis without a crease look sharp.

Best thing = you have to earn them. They are perfect in year 2.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Charles Saturn said:


> Where does everyone buy their Bill's, direct? at a B&M? or somewhere else? I notice some styles appear on Sierra Trading Post.


I have a very light collection so far, but I've bought both from B&M. Darien Sport Shop & Richard's.


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## oldominion (Dec 8, 2009)

Two years I left a local haberdasher with intense buyer's remorse. I could not believe--Heaven forfend!--that I'd just dropped 300 of my hard-earned writerly/teacherly dollars on two pair of khakis. No, not khakis: the Bullard Field pant. Waiting the two days for them to be hemmed was hell. Kept me up at night. Three hundred dollars. Absurd.

After one day of wearing the pants--pant, excuse me--I was tempted, and continue to be, to buy more. The heft of the fabric and the drape of the pant is exquisite, and I don't use that word lightly. They just feel right, the hang, the waist; the crease is gorgeous, the cuff is beefy but flat and holds its shape well.

I really don't know if I have another pair of pants (period) that I enjoy wearing as much.

I broke down and bought a pair of Cramerton twills this season and while I enjoy them I don't love them like I love the Bullards. I can get away with something a bit more casual at my teaching job, but the weave of the twill is rather rustic (I used to have a pair of Britches with the same widish and canvasy-looking weave) and it'd be hard to imagine wearing them in a more formal work environment...


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Charles Saturn said:


> Where does everyone buy their Bill's, direct? at a B&M? or somewhere else? I notice some styles appear on Sierra Trading Post.


I have purachased off ebay. Two pair were seconds, but I am unable to discern the flaw.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

The Rambler said:


> STP for me: m3s were about 50 bucks last year, so were m2 poplins. Big lots seem to pop up there from time to time. They've also usually got the "vintage twill," as well as the regular one, a nice soft fabric.


Rambler, did you really say big lots as in "Big Lots, orange exclamation mark"?


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

oldominion said:


> ..I broke down and bought a pair of Cramerton twills this season...but the weave of the twill is rather rustic (I used to have a pair of Britches with the same widish and canvasy-looking weave) and it'd be hard to imagine wearing them in a more formal work environment...


Good information I've been eyeing those...Thanks!


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

This has probably been covered before, but how much if any vanity sizing does Bills utilize? Second question, how do the poplins vary from the twills, I always find poplin to be a rather vague term. Thanks. They are reasonably priced at STP, and I like buying from STP, no hassles.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I think the waist measure is pretty accurate, after the pants have been through the dryer. Poplin is significantly lighter than twill, and a different weave. A good poplin is flexible and solid-looking, but, as with other fabrics, comes in various quality levels and weights. The Bill's poplin is quite good, but, like all poplin, too light for me to want to wear it in cold weather.


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

Charles Saturn said:


> This has probably been covered before, but how much if any vanity sizing does Bills utilize?


My 32's were just that when purchased, a bit snug but my correct size. I measure @32 even. Now when buttoned and measured (not while wearing) they measure an even 17in across (x2=34in). Wash at home, sometimes dry, mostly hang dry. So a little stretch, i suppose. I have never had casual pants shrink and stay shrunk in the waist.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

Charles Saturn said:


> This has probably been covered before, but how much if any vanity sizing does Bills utilize? Second question, how do the poplins vary from the twills, I always find poplin to be a rather vague term. Thanks. They are reasonably priced at STP, and I like buying from STP, no hassles.


The 36s I bought from Hanson's measure exactly 36". Sadly this means I can't wear them right now. My weight loss goal has now become being able to wear my 36 Bills M1s. : )


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

tlocke said:


> For me the short rise is not a matter of style or taste, just genetics. I am 5'7'' tall.


I'm only 5'8" but frightfully well endowed and I like pants that come up to my waist. M1s and M2s do so. So do J. Crew Essentials -- both in Classic Fit and Urban Slim.

(There's only one lie in the above sentence)


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Joe Beamish said:


> I'm only 5'8" but frightfully well endowed and I like pants that come up to my waist. M1s and M2s do so. So do J. Crew Essentials -- both in Classic Fit and Urban Slim.
> 
> (There's only one lie in the above sentence)


:icon_smile_big: JB, at least you're frightfully well-endowed with wit. I miss your Brooklyn wisecracks.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Joe Beamish said:


> I'm only 5'8" but frightfully well endowed and I like pants that come up to my waist. M1s and M2s do so. So do J. Crew Essentials -- both in Classic Fit and Urban Slim.
> 
> (There's only one lie in the above sentence)


You're really 5'6" arent you. LOL


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## MKC (Sep 10, 2010)

Charles Saturn said:


> This has probably been covered before, but how much if any vanity sizing does Bills utilize?


In a 38 waist, my M1s are consistently an inch large -- and hold that size.



Charles Saturn said:


> Where does everyone buy their Bill's, direct? at a B&M? or somewhere else? I notice some styles appear on Sierra Trading Post


If you are willing to pay full price (my experience has been that M1 flat fronts are hard to find at the usual discounted sites) the best place in the world to buy Bill's is Hansen's Clothing of Spencer, Iowa. Free hemming, free shipping, and a little extra patch of cloth added to the back of the cuff to help prevent wear.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

oldominion said:


> Two years I left a local haberdasher with intense buyer's remorse. I could not believe--Heaven forfend!--that I'd just dropped 300 of my hard-earned writerly/teacherly dollars on two pair of khakis. No, not khakis: the Bullard Field pant. Waiting the two days for them to be hemmed was hell. Kept me up at night. Three hundred dollars. Absurd.
> 
> After one day of wearing the pants--pant, excuse me--I was tempted, and continue to be, to buy more. The heft of the fabric and the drape of the pant is exquisite, and I don't use that word lightly. They just feel right, the hang, the waist; the crease is gorgeous, the cuff is beefy but flat and holds its shape well.


I thrifted and flipped a pair of Bullard Field Pants about 8 months ago (not my size), so while I can't comment about the fit I can say that the material is incredible. This was the only pair of them which I have seen and I will say that you don't have to look inside and see the Bill's label to know that they are of extremely high quality.

They are expensive, but would I rather have one pair of BFP's or two pairs of BB Advantage Chinos? I would take the pair of Bullard Field Pants without a doubt.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I have the regular chinos and poplins, haven't tried any of the fancier fabrics. I have them in all configurations, though with weight loss I have to say M3 suits me best.

In the summer, though, the baggy M1 poplins are very nice. 

I also appreciate the M1P, with the single forward pleat, which in my opinion is the best sort of pleated trouser.

Some guys have complained that their Bill's get raggedy at the hem or cuff. Maybe I get mine in the high-water mode, but I have had no such problems in the five years or so I've been buying Bill's.

Some have come via eBay or STP, and some from Hansen's or Eljo's. Even at the full ticket they are a good deal.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Most of mine have been bought NWT on e-bay at really good prices. But, that was some time back. It seems there used to be tons of them on there and I could usually find what I wanted with little trouble for under $50...sometimes well under $40. Unfortunately, the over supply seems to have dried up substantially. No where near as big a selection or prices as low. Don't know what happened.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

I have one pair of Bullards, and they are just ridiculously amazing. They will literally stand up on their own for a brief second or so if you arrange them just so.  They are that substantial and well put together. If you keep your eyes out on Ebay you can get them cheap sometimes - but I think I still paid $40some shipped, which I considered really good. I would concur that the Ebay supply of Bills has dried up - I watched them for awhile, but the only pair I ever bought that way were the Bullards, which also seem to be the hardest to find of the "standard models." Just searched and it seems some people must have stopped visiting the clearance center, or the supply has dried up!

I also have quite a few pairs of the Original Twills in various colors, two pairs of limited edition Wellingtons, several poplins, and a pair of chamois cloth, in addition to shorts in twill and poplin weights. I'd say I've had a good bit of exposure to the various types, and have done it on the cheap - trades account for 90% of them, with a couple of strategic purchases of NWT's or package deals. That said, I think it's not so much how you get them or what you pay, but how you wear them! The more they're worn, the better they seem to crease. I will say I prefer the chamois cloth to the poplins - they feel a little nicer, obviously. The heavy-duty Wellingtons are great fall pants, heathered colors, so I'm wearing those a good bit right now, pretty sturdy stuff - different feel than the Bullards but pretty similar "durability" feel.

Anyway, my point is this: I don't think you can go wrong with any of the Bills types - even the shorts worked well in the summer, for what that's worth. The MODELS are where you need to dial in your fit - I still haven't found any of the M3's but M1, M1P, M2, M2P are all in my closet and all get worn. It's just that what I'm doing will alter which cut I want to wear - sitting in the office all day vs. walking around all day is probably the best opposite to mention. Once you can get past the price, via Ebay, STP, the exchange, trading, thrift, whatever - or just pay it - the Bills are worth every ounce of their substantial weight!


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## linklaw (Aug 1, 2007)

Charles Saturn said:


> This has probably been covered before, but how much if any vanity sizing does Bills utilize?


When I visited the Bill's factory, I was told that to pass quality control the waist had to be within 1 inch, plus or minus, from the stated size.


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## POLOGOLF (May 10, 2005)

They fit, they look good, they are american made.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> Most of mine have been bought *NWT* on e-bay at really good prices.





> I'd say I've had a good bit of exposure to the various types, and have done it on the cheap - trades account for 90% of them, with a couple of strategic purchases of *NWT's* or package deals.


I give up, NWT?


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## Ripley (Oct 19, 2010)

New With Tag


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Ripley said:


> New With Tag


There is a lot of jargon around here one needs to get a hold of.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Charles Saturn said:


> There is a lot of jargon around here one needs to get a hold of.


QFT...


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

linklaw said:


> When I visited the Bill's factory, I was told that to pass quality control the waist had to be within 1 inch, plus or minus, from the stated size.


That's interesting, pretty undemanding. Since they sell 33, 35, 37, I wonder if they re-mark them.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Trip English said:


> I have a very light collection so far, but I've bought both from B&M. Darien Sport Shop & Richard's.





The Rambler said:


> That's interesting, pretty undemanding. Since they sell 33, 35, 37, I wonder if they re-mark them.


A Bills CS rep told me that the tolerance was a quarter of an inch


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

that's more like my experience with them, Clay.


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