# The popover...revisited



## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

I think I found my hook this summer-the pop-over. I'm going to do them in white, three times per week at least, from April through September. Reckon how many I'll need? 

What do I plan on wearing them with?-monogrammed B.K.'s and bow ties with a blue blazer and penny loafers--holla back.

Squad A, you said Mercer had them for $85?-true dat?

I found a source for $95.

Anyone else have a source?-Variety-spice-o-life--no pony please.


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

Do let us know how it goes. I'm very interested in popovers. Very.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

*The popover-revisited*



A.Squire said:


> I think I found my hook this summer-the pop-over. I'm going to do them in white, three times per week at least, from April through September. Reckon how many I'll need?
> 
> What do I plan on wearing them with?-monogrammed B.K.'s and bow ties with a blue blazer and penny loafers--holla back.
> 
> ...


A.Squire-
Could you please post a picture?


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Once upon a time, F.A. MacCluer made a good looking pullover. The typical design: 4-button placket, center pleat in the back and loop, and half-sleeved, just at or a tad beyond elbow. Offered in blue and white in the heavier oxford cloth, which (IMHO) never quite measured up to the plush denseness of the Gitman heavy TTX "Cambridge" oxford cloth but oh well. Maybe they offered other colors as well; not sure. An uninformed hunch is that Sero also had a hand in the pullover business at one point. I'd be interested in hearing more from anyone who owns the old Brooks pullovers from way back when--maybe a compare/contrast with what Mr. Mercer is now offering, which I'm sure is spot on. And speaking of the Gitman oxford: I'm still looking for boxer shorts. Since buying half a dozen a few years back, it seems they've disappeared. I should've bought a lifetime's worth.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Harris, have you tried the CEGO boxers? They're supposed to have the Brooks cut and he does runs in oxford shirting from time to time. Drop Carl an email and see what he's got.

I'm tempted to try a popover sometime. Highly alluring.

It's good to have you posting, Harris. Stick around.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

As many of you know, I have been looking for popover oxfords for a long time. I had a couple of my grandfathers as a kid and loved them.

The good news is that I found what might be a great RTW popover in the attached link. The bad news is that the shirt is a whopping $198. Squire's man Wm. King has another lux version for $125. So basically Mercers is the only realisticly priced option.

https://www.hickeystyle.com/website/product.asp?s_id=2&dept_id=4152&pf_id=PAAAIAMKLFIMMEEH&


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^ The Hickeys aren't even sized at that price. Yikes. You might catch those on deep discount during their summer sale if you keep an eye on them.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

What is the point of these popovers? Is everyone so busy in the morning that they have to save time by buttoning up 2 maybe 3 less buttons on their shirt? Also, if you are wearing a tie no one will see your nifty popover anyway.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

^ Good points. But unless the hickey sale is around 75% off (instead of their usual 20%), I am not really interested.

One other point. Polo does have some non-pony popovers out there, but they are not good. Polo's version has a pleat or fold under the placket, which for me ruins the aesthetic. Also, the end of the placket is sloppy.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Breaking news just in...Squire's trusted clothier and friend Wm. King just acquired a stock of the popovers that he helped to design (the Williams Point) which he has discounted to $95. They are by Madeleine Finn, which appears to be a very good shirtmaker (I googled them). These are US made and cut to Wm. King's standards. Hope this helps.

Edit - Sorry, just realized that this was the source referenced by Squire for $95 (doh). Hope I did not let the cat out of the bag.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

A.Squire said:


> I think I found my hook this summer-the pop-over. I'm going to do them in white, three times per week at least, from April through September. Reckon how many I'll need?
> 
> What do I plan on wearing them with?-monogrammed B.K.'s and bow ties with a blue blazer and penny loafers--holla back.
> 
> ...


Perhaps I will get in trouble for this, but I feel that it is my own personal responsibility to tell you that I find your posts unbelievably annoying. It is actually shocking how annoying they are.

There. I holla'd back.


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

I am coming to A. Squire's side on this one. I actually enjoy his posts.

I just holla'd at you.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Okay, gents, let's agree that some enjoy A. Squire's posts, others find them over the top. I don't want this to degenerate into a poll on A. Squire. Let's try to keep the discussion focused on popovers.


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

I agree Alan C. I just found the comment to be a little ridiculous and out of place. I just wanted to lend support.

On, popovers... I find them to be a little ridiculous. Why pullover a shirt when you can just button two or three more buttons. What if you brush your hair before you put your shirt on, with a popover you have to brush it again.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

iammatt said:


> Perhaps I will get in trouble for this, but I feel that it is my own personal responsibility to tell you that I find your posts unbelievably annoying. It is actually shocking how annoying they are.
> 
> There. I holla'd back.


Edit: I must have been posting at the same time as you, Alan.


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

iammatt said:


> Perhaps I will get in trouble for this, but I feel that it is my own personal responsibility to tell you that I find your posts unbelievably annoying. It is actually shocking how annoying they are.
> 
> There. I holla'd back.


Moderator's edit


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## Nantucket Red (Jan 26, 2006)

The best popovers I've had were at Jordan Pond. Pipin' hot with lotsa buttah. That's a good popovah!


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Nantucket Red said:


> The best popovers I've had were at Jordan Pond. Pipin' hot with lotsa buttah. That's a good popovah!


Well played, Red.

Jb


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

*Let me be plain*

Serious Moderator Warning

Keep to the topic. AlanC was nice - I'm not.

Thanks for your cooperation.


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

What is the point of a popover?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Duck said:


> What is the point of a popover?


I think that you are supposed to wear a santa-type hat with them on your way to the bathroom at night. They are a little scrooge mcduck for me.

Either that or you eat them with prime rib or as a first course at Nieman Marcus.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

Duck said:


> What is the point of a popover?


Second that. Not to condemn but just curious, is there some advantage I don't know about?


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

Duck said:


> What is the point of a popover?


I don't know if it necessarily has a point, perhaps it's just a little something different. I believe that I have read that a large percentage of shirts used to be made like this. To me it has sportier connotations, though I don't know how accurate that is.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Cable Car Clothiers' 2007 catalog has them in white, blue, pink, yellow and ecru in pionpoint, not oxford, sized S thru XXL for $89. Short sleeve only. FWIW the original BB button-down was made in this style and I believe it was rather late in its lifetime (early 1950s or so) that the coat front was made standard.


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

To me they're interesting because of historical interest and the fact that they're just a little different. 
I'm interested in interesting things.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Brooksfan said:


> Cable Car Clothiers' 2007 catalog has them in white, blue, pink, yellow and ecru in pionpoint, not oxford, sized S thru XXL for $89. Short sleeve only. FWIW the original BB button-down was made in this style and I believe it was rather late in its lifetime (early 1950s or so) that the coat front was made standard.


If I recall correctly, they also came without a chest pocket, either that or they could be removed by Brooks themselves. Also, did everyone have a grand-dad who wore these? LOL


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## Taxi_driver (Mar 19, 2006)

I found this cool popover on sale at Orvis!










I'll post some pics when it arrives


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## Larchmont (Jan 2, 2005)

To me there are two types of popover:

1. Dress shirt (OCBD, full length sleeves) - a novelty as a popover.

2. Casual shirt (also OCBD but could be madras or some other fabric, short sleeves) - a weekend shirt.


Oh - it is nice to see Harris again.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Every few months we have a thread on popovers/pullovers. First someone like Squire or myself states that they have found a potential source for them. Those of us who like the style then start to post. Then a bunch of people ask what is a popover instead of just searching the many older threads on the topic. Then people ask what is the point of popovers. And then people criticize the style (which is fine since it is a somewhat odd and maybe outdated detail).

What is the point of a popover shirt? Ultimately it is just a style element. Just like what is the point of a tassel on a loafer, or a buttonhole on a 3/2 lapel? For me, it takes the OCBD back to its sportswear roots. Aside from the good feelings that I got from hand-me-down shirts, I like popovers because they make an oxford dress shirt more casual. They are sort of in between an oxford and a polo shirt. Sometimes a cotton pique polo seems too casual. I can understand that some people do not like the look, just like I am not wild about collar pins and other things. Not really worth fighting over.


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

Could someone post a picture, drawing, oil painting, lithograph, copper plate etching, something, of someone wearing a shirt that would normally be called an ocbd with long sleeves and ponyless, please, that is also a popover. Perhaps it could even be stickied. I just think some people, myself included, have a tough time grasping what such a thing looks like on a human being. It might end some of these discussions. 
Thank you.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

septa said:


> Could someone post a picture, drawing, oil painting, lithograph, copper plate etching, something, of someone wearing a shirt that would normally be called an ocbd with long sleeves and ponyless, please, that is also a popover. Perhaps it could even be stickied. I just think some people, myself included, have a tough time grasping what such a thing looks like on a human being. It might end some of these discussions.
> Thank you.


thats easy.

im gonna take a picture of myself in a white bb ocbd, and photoshop it so it looks like a popover.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

I don't have photoshop, I have the drawing editor. The result is horrible because I can't get the right kind of white, but you can have a rough idea of it:

https://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01368oy0.jpg


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

Untilted said:


> I don't have photoshop, I have the drawing editor. The result is horrible because I can't get the right kind of white, but you can have a rough idea of it:
> 
> https://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01368oy0.jpg


Thank you.


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## Tom72 (May 8, 2006)

What is the popover point, you ask? What is the point of full placket and buttons, I reply.

Actually, the ancient BB ocbd solid color popovers I had (alas, long gone now) had a button hole on the gut line at waist height, presumably to correspond to a small button on the inside of the trousers, which, when buttoned, would prevent dreaded blousing of a superbly baggy shirt. They were fuller cut than any full front button shirt I have ever seen. There were no pockets on any of them. One was a light grey, very nice. 

By the by, I say presumably because I never had the trousers which "presumably" complemented the shirts.

I am no one's grandfather, though biologically I suppose it would be possible, I don't want to think about it.

Yours,


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

septa said:


> Could someone post a picture, drawing, oil painting, lithograph, copper plate etching, something, of someone wearing a shirt that would normally be called an ocbd with long sleeves and ponyless, please, that is also a popover. Perhaps it could even be stickied. I just think some people, myself included, have a tough time grasping what such a thing looks like on a human being. It might end some of these discussions.
> Thank you.


The Search function is your friend. Feel free to use it. This one has a very small placket (all kinds of jokes possible there).

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=48434&highlight=popover


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

I did search and looked at that thread, but didn't see that the shirt was a pop-over until now. Is that all the farther the buttons go down? I imagined the placket extending closer to the navel. That looks like the placket on a polo shirt. I really don't mean to be annoying. Thanks for directing me to the image and I'll keep searching.


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## knickerbacker (Jun 27, 2005)

Tom72 said:


> What is the popover point, you ask? What is the point of full placket and buttons, I reply.
> 
> Actually, the ancient BB ocbd solid color popovers I had (alas, long gone now) had a button hole on the gut line at waist height, presumably to correspond to a small button on the inside of the trousers, which, when buttoned, would prevent dreaded blousing of a superbly baggy shirt. They were fuller cut than any full front button shirt I have ever seen. There were no pockets on any of them. One was a light grey, very nice.
> 
> ...


As stated in previous threads, the Brooks popovers were offered later than stated on the board as I had hand me downs from dear old dad which I wore no earlier than about 1979 due to the size. They had long sleeves and pockets with no flap. In the "help yourself young student of appropriate attire" pile were a much larger number of Press OCBD placket front shirts with a pocket and button flap which I assumed were commercially available far longer than the BB version. Why do I like them? Because they were really cool then as they seemed different, unusual, and better made than the coat front standard OCBD's which Santa brought. Why would I seek them out now? Because I still think that they are the cat's meow. 
Squire- if you'd have your source look into a 5 or 6 button longsleeve ocbd- last button should be at the belt- with pocket and flap, I would be much obliged. You are an asset to the board


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## boatshoes (Aug 21, 2005)

AlanC said:


> Harris, have you tried the CEGO boxers? They're supposed to have the Brooks cut and he does runs in oxford shirting from time to time. Drop Carl an email and see what he's got.
> 
> I'm tempted to try a popover sometime. Highly alluring.
> 
> It's good to have you posting, Harris. Stick around.


I tried the CEGO boxers. I'm your average 42R / 34W guy and they were really, really tight.

I'm willing to give the Mercer boxers a try, though. Would be interested in hearing if anyone has bought them.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

septa said:


> I did search and looked at that thread, but didn't see that the shirt was a pop-over until now. Is that all the farther the buttons go down? I imagined the placket extending closer to the navel. That looks like the placket on a polo shirt. I really don't mean to be annoying. Thanks for directing me to the image and I'll keep searching.


Septa,

Yes, the placket is usually a good bit longer. Generally the length of 4 buttons on a regular oxford.


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

Untilted said:


> I don't have photoshop, I have the drawing editor. The result is horrible because I can't get the right kind of white, but you can have a rough idea of it:
> 
> https://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01368oy0.jpg


Haha! Hope you're not an art major. Good lookin belt UnTilt. Go Hoos, go.

The long-sleeve solid oxford pop over sounds interesting, if for no reason other than it's a little different and decidedly "old school".

Last season polo had a madras short-sleeve pop-over, sans logo, I purchased in fall on deep discount (I've yet to wear it). The madras is a great color, but the collar (bd) seems a little weird and short to me. I'll have to give the shirt a few wears to see if I like it.

Nice to see ya, Harris.


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## Mel (Dec 12, 2006)

*what is a popover? is it a pull over oxford?*

What is a "popover". is it the oxford that you pull over your head??


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## Tom72 (May 8, 2006)

^ Yes, it is an ocbd you pullover. Like a crew neck sweater as opposed to a cardigan.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

iammatt said:


> Perhaps I will get in trouble for this, but I feel that it is my own personal responsibility to tell you that I find your posts unbelievably annoying. It is actually shocking how annoying they are.
> 
> There. I holla'd back.


Thanks, Matt.

Badger reprimands Toad's foolishness: _"Independence is all very well, but we animals never allow our friends to make fools of themselves beyond a certain limit; and that you've reached."_

I'll see what I can do to clean up my act.


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## joeyzaza (Dec 9, 2005)

I think I may pick up a popover as well for this summer. A little variety would be nice.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I guess I can see the point of them. I'm not sure about the popover with a bow tie, but if anyone can make it look good, I suppose Squire can. (I suppose if you did it with a sweater, no one would know you're wearing a pullover shirt with a tie. My guess is that's not what you're aiming at, though.)


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

JDDY said:


> Last season polo had a madras short-sleeve pop-over, sans logo, I purchased in fall on deep discount (I've yet to wear it). The madras is a great color, but the collar (bd) seems a little weird and short to me. I'll have to give the shirt a few wears to see if I like it.


I believe I found one of these at Marshall's last summer, though I don't recall if it was long sleeved or short sleeved. The wife vetoed it, though. That's alright; it wasn't exactly a wardrobe staple. It was the first knowledge I had that any such thing existed. In the future, I do think I'd like to at least give something like this a shot.


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## fairway (Sep 23, 2006)

Another possible source for popovers would be Kenneth Gordon, which I think is headquartered in New Orleans. I have not purchased any for several years but last I checked they could be purchased through Khakis in Cincinnati, Ohio. 

Mine have lasted past the 6 year mark and still going. However, not sure how wide the color range is, but seems to me to be full cut with a box pleat and nice sleeve length. Pricing was in the $80-85 range.


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## Benjamin.65 (Nov 1, 2006)

lovely thread. I wonder if New & Lingwood doesn't have your so-called "popover" shirts in their sporting kit. At school we had white pullover shirts for cricket. What beastly design or material they've dreamt up now, I know not.:icon_smile:


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

*Here is a popover for sale...*

BB with logo, but here is one


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