# Do Soulmates Exist?



## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

So I'm stuck in traffic listening to the radio when a advert comes on for eharmony or some other internet dating site that promises to find people their soulmates. It got me thinking about the whole notion of a soulmate. Now I'm currently single, not even in a serious relationship. However I have been in love twice in my 35 years and yet I cannot say that either of these women were my soulmate or even close to it. In all honesty I'm kind of a cynic when it comes to matters of the heart. I think the divorce rate is so high because people either marry for selfish reasons or they have unrealistic expectations from their spouse. Yet I just can't see that there is only one person in whole world that can be ones true love. I mean it's kind of nice I suppose to think about it when one is feeling romantic or nostalgic but in reality is this a good mind set to have? I can see how somebody when in a new relationship might think this with all the intense feelings falling in love brings but in the end if things don't work out we eventually find someone else and the process repeats does it not? I know a lovely elderly couple who have been married to each other for over 60 years. I'll have to ask them what they think as well.
Regards,
Mark


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## Gong Tao Jai (Jul 7, 2005)

There is no evidence that soulmates exist, nor can there be any evidence. The existence of people who stay together happily for their whole lives does not rule out the possibility that they could have been equally happy with other partners. And the world is full of people who were sure at one time that they had found their soul mate, only to break up later. 
I always thought the whole idea was corny.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

If I have/had one, I sure never found her! My present wife is incomparably better than the first two devils I was married to, which is no great feat. She is an attractive woman with many good qualities (even if she is not altogether sympathetic to many of my sartorial endeavors)and she has my loyalty and affection, but a "soulmate" (whatever that is exactly supposed to mean), naaah! The idea that there is only one person with whom you can be really and truly happy seems fatuous and childish to me. I suspect there are hundreds of middle- to late middle-aged white women in greater Long Beach alone with whom I could live quite happily.


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> she has my loyalty and affection, but a "soulmate" (whatever that is exactly supposed to mean), naaah!


Do I hear an echo of the now famous quote by Prince Charles here?

AZTEC

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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

I can't say that there is one specific person for everybody, but I can say that my wife and I are an excellent fit, I can't compare it with the other women I have been with


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

I have to agree with you all. I think the whole concept was invented by poets as an excuse for not getting a job.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by burnedandfrozen_
> 
> I have to agree with you all. I think the whole concept was invented by poets as an excuse for not getting a job.


And indeed there are massive economic concerns interested in 'love'. I mean, of course, the entire greeting card industry, most fiction, some literature, the music industry, and obviously Hollywood ("You complete me!", whatever Tom).

I'm almost your age, Burned, and have pretty much the same story. Met a number of women I really liked, but they always seem to tell me exactly what I want to hear, which I can detect without any effort at all. One, once, even knew exactly what I eat for breakfast, which I only told a few buddies; she did 'research', in other words! How's that for taking away any excitement about dating!

DD


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by AZTEC_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am afraid I don't know the "now-famous quote by Prince Charles." What is it? In any event, I was obviously not wittingly quoting it.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Doctor D,

Young man, do not loose faith!
And do not settle!
For, yes, soulmates do exist, albeit rare.
Most people walk their way through life having never know the great joy being/having a soulmate can bring!

I once read a mathematicianâ€™s theory that there are 50,000 possible mates on earth that each of us could spend our lives happily with. 
But of those 50,000, how many could be true soulmates?
Perhaps between one and four?

I am hardly a scholar (bite your tongues!), but I do believe that represents something along the lines of .0000000007 per cent of the world's population is a perfect match for you.

I do not mean to be discouraging, in fact, quite the contrary.

I was lucky, I pulled up to a red light and there she stood at a traffic light,
Awestruck, 
I illegally parked my car and got out.
I would not trade what ensued for all the super 150s in the world.

The dating game is growing more and more complicated,
people leave their hearts at home and shop with a spread sheet.
Everybody wants the Hollywood version.
I hear people in my office and at the club speaking about "their dates and cruising" 
and I could heave.

But do not give up, it will find you when you are not looking, when you are in the place you least expect. Hopefully, it will hit you like a train.

Last summer (2004) I watched an elderly man and woman walking down the sidewalk, chatting, kissing, holding hands. As they approached I realized it was my lawyer and his wife.
Out celebrating 45 years of marriage.
It was a lovely sight.

And even if life sends you a few curves and you do not spend the rest of your life with your soulmate, the experience will change you forever and it is better to have a shared a little, than nothingat all.

Don't settle, but don't spreadsheet shop either.
and Doc D,
may I suggest you visit Montreal more often this summer!


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

I think that what we commonly term a "soulmate" is someone for whom we have an intense emotional connection and a physical attraction on top of that.

I remember being 13 and worrying that my one true soulmate was probably someone in the Soviet Union and I would never meet him! 

There are few people with whom one gels both mentally and physically, but they're out there. And yes, dating today sounds awful; I'm glad I don't have to do it.

*"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Soulmates come and go...


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> ...I illegally parked my car and got out...


That's taking quite a chance knowing the Surete, eh?!!!

Anyway, good words, Z!
DD


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Dating in the Northwest Corner of Conn. is the absolute worst, unless you're looking for someone with more children than real teeth, an evil disposition and eight months' back rent due on the trailer...

I probably met my soulmate when I was drinking, and missed that opportunity as well.

It all bothers me less as I approach age 44. It's already far too late to marry and start a family. Much better to make it big writing and entertain myself with an endless procession of decorative ninnies. [}]


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## bosthist (Apr 4, 2004)

Since I'm on a music kick, here is a song for thinking about soulmates:

(I'd Go the) Whole Wide World
Wreckless Eric



When I was a young boy
My mama said to me
There's only one girl in the world for you
And she probably lives in Tahiti

I'd go the whole wide world
I'd go the whole wide world
Just to find her

Or maybe she's in the Bahamas
Where the Carribean sea is blue
Weeping in a tropical moonlit night
Because nobody's told her 'bout you

I'd go the whole wide world
I'd go the whole wide world
Just to find her
I'd go the whole wide world
I'd go the whole wide world
Find out where they hide her

Why am I hanging around in the rain out here
Trying to pick up a girl
Why are my eyes filling up with these lonely tears
When there're girls all over the world

Is she lying on a tropical beach somewhere
Underneath the tropical sun
Pining away in a heatwave there
Hoping that I won't be long

I should be lying on that sun-soaked beach with her
Caressing her warm brown skin
And then in a year or maybe not quite
We'll be sharing the same next of kin

I'd go the whole wide world
I'd go the whole wide world
Just to find her
I'd go the whole wide world
I'd go the whole wide world
Find out where they hide her

words and music Eric Goulden / Wreckless Eric (Zomba Music)


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## ChubbyTiger (Mar 10, 2005)

Depends on your definition, I suppose. I would call my wife and I soul mates, I guess. It sounds hokey enough that I might choose another phrase, though.  

Don't give up hope. If it is supposed to happen, it will.

CT


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

'Since our inner experiences consist of reproductions and combinations of sensory impressions, the concept of a soul without a body seems to me to be empty and devoid of meaning.'

-Dr Albert Einstein


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Vettriano man_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't drink anymore. And I don't _want_ to get married and start a family. It would play absolute hell with my fishing. []

A little hoo-hah now and again, now that wouldn't be bad.

(I bow to no man in the depths of my shallowness.)


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Vettriano man_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My father was 54 when he met my mother, and 55 when I was born.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

VS,

May I ask how old your mom was?


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> VS,
> 
> May I ask how old your mom was?


42.

And don't ask how old she is now.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

I doubt that they exist and this is something that is driven by women. I think most men realize that there are many fish in the sea and selecting one means asessing and accepting the positive and negative traits. 

I have to hand it to Mr eHarmony, he is a genius. Even if well matched when they meet, suggesting that that will remain the case throughout is a little over optimistic. Our thoughts and needs drift over time. If luck our partners will drift with us, if not, well you know...


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ITV1 in the UK broadcast a two-hour film, called _Whatever Love Means_, on the early years of the relationship between Prince Charles and his new wife.

The title comes from Charles and Princess Dianaâ€™s first television interview when they announced their engagement in 1981. They were asked the question: "Are you in love?" Bride-to-be Diana said: "Of course", while Charles replied yes, adding: "Whatever that means."

AZTEC

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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

I think we know what Charles meant "yes, I found someone who can produce heirs without ears like trophy cups".


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

A couple of years ago, Laura Kipnis wrote an amusing little book, _Against Love: A Polemic_, that gives the idea of life-long, undying love the old one-two. It should probably be read by any man or woman contemplating the state of voluntary servitude known as marriage; but, as we know, a nod is as good as a wink . . . Edith Wharton perhaps summed it up best in _The Age Of Innocence_:

"[Newland Archer] reviewed his friendsâ€™ marriages - the supposedly happy ones - and saw none that answered, even remotely, to the passionate and tender comradeship which he pictured as his permanent relation with May Welland. . . and with a shiver of foreboding he saw his marriage becoming what most of the other marriages about him were: a dull association of material and social interests held together by ignorance on one side and hypocrisy on the other."

Of course, this insight did not prevent Archer from marrying May, or from believing that he had found his soulmate in Madame Olenska. So it goes . . .

"Cross-legged under an umbrel umbershoot, he thrones an Aztec logos"


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

For all-consuming, single-minded bitterness that reaches new heights, check out https://www.nomarriage.com/.

DD


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

The purpose of marriage is not to ensure perpetual happiness with your soulmate, but to provide an underpinning for society.

In a society where everybody is busy screwing everyone and everything, nobody builds a railroad. In a society where sex, marriage, and childbirth have no relationship, male children grow up without a steady role model and female children grow up to believe their only value is as a sex object. In a society where you are always free to chase the next shiny object, a lot of people will live, and die, alone.

----------------------


"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> The purpose of marriage is not to ensure perpetual happiness with your soulmate, but to provide an underpinning for society.
> 
> In a society where everybody is busy screwing everyone and everything, nobody builds a railroad. In a society where sex, marriage, and childbirth have no relationship, male children grow up without a steady role model and female children grow up to believe their only value is as a sex object. In a society where you are always free to chase the next shiny object, a lot of people will live, and die, alone.


I'm with you all the way there. Commitment is what it's all about. That said, men and women down the ages have always successfully managed to have a lot of fun without endangering mariage and a stable family. But today everyone is looking for an excuse to avoid real responsibility.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Speaking of lifelong commitment, I wish _I _ could make a living producing studies which confirm the painfully obvious.

"A study of 9,055 people in America, tracked since they were teenagers in 1979, has found that those who married and stayed married accumulated almost twice the personal wealth of their single peers."


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

Interesting comments from you all especially from Zegmantl. Hmmm I wonder if he believes in love at first sight?
I think what really matters most is mutual acceptance. There are things about us all that probably annoy those around us and we all have our bad habits. It just seems like people these days either think things will change once they are married or they just reach a point where they cannot live with it anymore. My mother divorced my father because he didn't make enough money to give her the life she felt entitled to. He made enough to support us in a traditional middle class lifestyle with mom staying home to raise me and my sister. We never went without, we took vacations ect. Yet mom wanted more and dad seemed complacent where he was work wise. So she divorced him for a guy who promised her the house in the hills, the fur coats and so fourth. And he delivered if only for a few years before business went bad and they had to move back to the dreaded middle class neighborhood. Oh well what can you do? So having parents who divorced puts me at risk as well and the fact that I'm not exactly rolling in cash myself is another strike against what I have to offer a lifetime partner. Sure I'd like to do the whole marriage and kids thing but I have to be honest with myself and what I really have to offer. But soulmates? Well, why not? Gotta have something to dream about.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> For all-consuming, single-minded bitterness that reaches new heights, check out https://www.nomarriage.com/.
> 
> DD


Thanks for the link. Ha! This from the page, 'Why Men Should Not Marry':

'What I'm saying is that human beings are nasty weak treacherous creatures that are for the most part totally untrustworthy. Experience is my basis for this statement, both mine and others who I know or who have written reliable histories. If you can find a woman to be your companion who is not treacherous, a deceitful little actress, a sly whore or a manipulative nag or a shrieking hag, then you are among the lucky few. Congratulations. I hope your luck continues to hold out.'


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

I was amused to discover there is an internet dating site for people who want to meet millionaires. In other words, you can now look for your soulmate in the right income bracket. LOL.


AZTEC


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Although I don't really believe in soulmates, there is no denying that it often happens when we meet a girl that we get a heady feeling we were somehow "meant for each other". And a wonderful feeling it is. It can easily lead us to believe in some kind of destiny. Maybe this is nature's way of favouring a strongly united couple likely to form a stable family. I don't see any reason not to enjoy it while it lasts. However, there always comes a time when commitment (or "making it work") becomes an issue. At one time society made sure couples, once formed, stayed together whether they liked it or not. Today it seems that many couples don't want to meet the challenges of the long term - whence soaring divorce rates, crumbling families, etc. Our consumer society may be to blame - short term gratification, everything now, etc.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
> 
> Although I don't really believe in soulmates, there is no denying that it often happens when we meet a girl that we get a heady feeling we were somehow "meant for each other". And a wonderful feeling it is. It can easily lead us to believe in some kind of destiny. Maybe this is nature's way of favouring a strongly united couple likely to form a stable family. I don't see any reason not to enjoy it while it lasts. However, there always comes a time when commitment (or "making it work") becomes an issue. At one time society made sure couples, once formed, stayed together whether they liked it or not. Today it seems that many couples don't want to meet the challenges of the long term - whence soaring divorce rates, crumbling families, etc. Our consumer society may be to blame - short term gratification, everything now, etc.


Beautifully said, my friend. I will not speak for other than the UK, but as a young gay man, this hardly bodes well for my future. Or perhaps it is too early for me to be jaded?

"The Bishop of _Rome_ hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of _England_."
Thomas Cranmer, _The Book of Common Prayer_, Article XXXVII.​


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Flatsix wrote:

In a society where you are always free to chase the next shiny object, a lot of people will live, and die, alone.

~~~~~

That accurately describes a very large, and quickly growing, element of society.
The divorce rate in Quebec is said to be at 58 percent!
The separation rate of the reconstituted family, a whopping 70 percent.


VS,

I had read a similar study while doing some research about university, oddly enough.
The tie is was, in Canada, Statistics Canada reported that the divorce rate was lowest amongst couples where both people had completed university. It also went on to say the university grad population who held the highest annual income and lowest unemployment rate was amongst those who held Master degrees, not a Phd!


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> ...I had read a similar study while doing some research about university, oddly enough. The tie is was, in Canada, Statistics Canada reported that the divorce rate was lowest amongst couples where both people had completed university. It also went on to say the university grad population who held the highest annual income and lowest unemployment rate was amongst those who held Master degrees, not a Phd!...


Z, good stat about having the MA, which is exactly where I stand. Now if only the money would start flowing...

Regarding other posts on society holding marriages together in the past: what is overlooked is that people were stuck in marriages which were terrible. Women in particular, with no economic prospects, were often trapped in abusive and hateful marriages, which Church and Society would (1) not let them escape, and (2) provided no means for them to survive if they did escape. So although like everyone I lament the huge decline in responsible adult relationships these days, I think the old 'system' was much worse. At least today, people can choose to be responsible or irresponsible, instead of being forced one way or the other.

DD


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

There's been studies here in the US to that show that the more income and education a couple has the more likely they will remain married. So surprise here. I think it's just really sad that there seems to be a lot of people who are so selfish that their sense of entitlment trumps the feelings and needs of others. I also tend to agree that our impatient nature these days also rule out the effort needed to make relationships work. After being brought up on sitcoms I guess us 20 and 30 somethings expect every problem to workitself out in a half hour. It's always easier to take the path of least resistance but the rewards of doing so never are worth it.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by burnedandfrozen_
> 
> There's been studies here in the US to that show that the more income and education a couple has the more likely they will remain married. So surprise here. I think it's just really sad that there seems to be a lot of people who are so selfish that their sense of entitlment trumps the feelings and needs of others. I also tend to agree that our impatient nature these days also rule out the effort needed to make relationships work. After being brought up on sitcoms I guess us 20 and 30 somethings expect every problem to workitself out in a half hour. It's always easier to take the path of least resistance but the rewards of doing so never are worth it.


I agree, I think people are less willing to make an effort today than in the past. If someone meets your standards enough to want to marry him or her, then that person is worth keeping.

It ties into my "vacuum theory". In the past, if your vacuum didn't work, you had it repaired. You had a commitment to your vacuum. Today, you throw it out and get a new one.

Now if if my vacuum were to hurt me, that'd be different, but if if fails to pick things up once in a while or makes disturbing sounds, I just turn it over and work on it.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> Regarding other posts on society holding marriages together in the past: what is overlooked is that people were stuck in marriages which were terrible. Women in particular, with no economic prospects, were often trapped in abusive and hateful marriages, which Church and Society would (1) not let them escape, and (2) provided no means for them to survive if they did escape. So although like everyone I lament the huge decline in responsible adult relationships these days, I think the old 'system' was much worse.


Women today are often still in abusive and hateful relationships, and it is thier own doing. How often have you heard someone ask a woman why they don't leave that relationship and they say "well he only beats me because he loves me" or some other such nonsense?


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by crazyquik_
> 
> Women today are often still in abusive and hateful relationships, and it is thier own doing. How often have you heard someone ask a woman why they don't leave that relationship and they say "well he only beats me because he loves me" or some other such nonsense?


A variant of this is: "He beats me" "Why don't you leave him? "Because I love him". I'm always amazed at how women let themselves be exploited. It is certainly due in part to fear, but above all to misplaced feelings of guilt - women seem to have enormous reserves of guilt that can be tapped by unscrupulous men. Of course, it may well be that this guilt is implanted at an early age by our male-dominated society. Or it may be a Western thing. I wonder if it's the same in Japan?


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Vettriano man_
> 
> ...Space is also usually an important issue for both parties to keep harmonious - each needing their own interests and friends maybe, thereby sharing each other's cultural viewpoints.


Yes, space is very important. When my folks are around each other too much, cabin fever sets in and they start scrapping. When each has enough time to do their own things, then all's well.

DD


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## eurodove (Dec 29, 2005)

I am finding this topic very interesting. Now as far as women who are with men who beat them, yes I can say I had a friend of mine who after this happened say she still loved him. I don't get it myself, I as a woman, can not see myself saying this is ok and trudging along in this marriage, but that person has to make that call. My parents have been married for 47yrs.and still counting. They worked at the same place(different depts)went to work together, had lunch together, drove home together, went to bed together and woke up every morning together and still talked liked they hadn't seen each other all day. That just always fascinated me and makes me wonder does that exist for everyone and would it for me? Should I expect this out of my marriage when I find that person?


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Maybe brain parasites can (partially) explain the Mars/Venus problem...

https://www.corante.com/loom/archives/2006/01/17/the_return_of_the_puppet_masters.php

DD


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

Reminds me of the song "He Hit Me" by The Crystals: 

He hit me, and it felt like a kiss. 
He hit me, and I knew he loved me. 
If he didn't care for me, I could have never made him mad.
But he hit me, and I was glad.

Not quite Da Doo Ron Ron.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Vettriano man_
> 
> Interesting - I was having a similar discussion on Saturday evening with friends about what women do actually look for in a man when in a relationship. The consensus from both the male and female viewpoints was for both parties to aim for a happy balance - that the man should be considerate to the woman and also positive with ideas and actions and that it should be mutually returned. On the other side of the coin some women do like to lead the way and they find men who are happy to be led, but they are usually weak men who give in to this, sadly. Space is also usually an important issue for both parties to keep harmonious - each needing their own interests and friends maybe, thereby sharing each other's cultural viewpoints.


I think women usually do get their way with us through their nagging, b**ching, wheedling and cajoling. We are much more easygoing, peaceful creatures. This is no new new thing! Today we regard ancient Greece as as very sexist, male chauvinist culture. Consider then this joke (that I think comes from Plutarch's Lives: "Themistocles rules Athens. Themistocles' wife rules Themistocles, and her little son rules Themistocle's wife!" I don't think anyone would call Themistocles a "weak man" (albeit something of a rogue and traitor).


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not so sure about guilt. I think allowing this sort of abuse is based upon having a low self-esteem (I don't deserve better treatment), having been subjected to a history of familial abuse (I'm used to this sort of treatment), or fear of being alone (If I object to this treatment I won't have anyone).

I would never stay with an abusive person, but I've never experienced this sort of situation.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

We've gone from happy lives and love with a soul mate to abuse and beatings??

Lets get back to the lovin'


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## Cliff (Mar 10, 2005)

When you get beaten by a soul mate, is it any easier ?


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by eurodove_
> 
> Should I expect this out of my marriage when I find that person?


Maybe "expecting" it is too strong a word. It can happen, but not all marriages are like that from the get-go. Sometimes you have to work at it, sometimes a marriage is more like a quiet, comfortable thing with not that much communication.


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## eurodove (Dec 29, 2005)

What if you think you found your soulmate(if such exists) but he is married to someone else?


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> We've gone from happy lives and love with a soul mate to abuse and beatings??
> 
> Lets get back to the lovin'


Group hug!


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by eurodove_
> 
> What if you think you found your soulmate(if such exists) but he is married to someone else?


Ah, but that assumes there is only one soulmate for any given person. Very romantic but also unrealistic.

That belief is the impetus behind a great deal of art, poetry and crimes of passion, however.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by eurodove_
> 
> What if you think you found your soulmate(if such exists) but he is married to someone else?


Not counting potential moral issues, your in treacherous waters. Even if his situation is complex. People could get hurt.

I know, love can be cruel. I had many bruises to show for it in my bachelor days. Your married man may have all the qualities of your perfect soulmate, but his having a mate is too big an obstacle. I think VS is right, there is more than one man out there for you. [8D]


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

I thought the "he only beats me because he loves me" was just a Land-O-Jerry-Springer thing, but I guess it happens in the UK and France as well. And we can assume most of Europe too I guess.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

What if you think you found your soulmate(if such exists) but he is married to someone else?

~~~~~~~~


Life is full of little moments when you meet someone and connect in some slight way.
A beautiful moment, and nothing more. Enjoy it for what it is, relish it, and move on without having crossed the line. Even if you think she/he is your soulmate.


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

Just today I was talking to a co-worker who I dated a few times five years ago. She just turned 35. She is still living at her fathers (parents are divorced) as she did five years ago when we went out those few times. Not long after I decided to look elsewhere she got pregnant (by who nobody seems to know) and decided to stay at Dads and raise her daughter with him. I bring this up because when I saw her and her father the other day I couldn't believe she was still living at home. "So where's the father"? I asked. She just shrugged her shoulders. I just can't belive how people arrive at such places in their lives. "I'm trying to fit these pieces together but it just isn't working" I told her.


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

I think the notion of a soulmate is frankly absurd. There are any number of people out there you could quite happily spend your life with. The trick - and problem - is finding someone who likes you back and is available at the right time.

I'm very happily married. When Mrs ashie259 and I met, we found each other to be single and available, and living in the same geographical area. We also had mutual friends who could testify that neither of us were violent, psychotic or completely dissolute. So we got together, liked it and intend to stay together. 

And it's been great, but I'm sure neither of us have any doubt that it could have been someone else. Not anyone, but someone else. This someone else just wasn't around at the right time.

So I think that as with any other aspect of life, you make what you hope is the best decision based on the prevailing circumstances at the time.

As for the women in violent relationships thing, I don't think there's any great mystery as to why they stay in them. For many women in this type of relationship, the cons (mostly immediate and practical) of getting out of it outnumber the pros (mostly long-term and abstract).


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## eurodove (Dec 29, 2005)

I am a little fearful in posting this but here goes. . . .
I had never ever in my life remotely thought of crossing that line, but the attraction, and everything that goes along with that lined up perfectly and was/is such a strong connection that it was crossed and is still being crossed going on two years. 
At first I thought, if he is wanting to be with me, it's because he wants out of his marriage and we will be together. Call me naive, but I thought this is how this thing(love)works. I'm not married, and never have been. I know marriage is not easy, it's constant work, as in anything. But I truly thought when a man is looking outside of his marriage, then he should either fix it, try to fix it or should opt out and say it's not working. He has told me had he met me first, he would have married me, but he says he loves his wife. I know that is code for "I'm not leaving her for you." 
This is his second marriage. He had a difficult first marriage along with the divorce and I can only assume, he doesn't wish to have his wife of now go through that same path, but that's me talking and if so that's the case, then I don't understand the mentality of not wanting to hurt her with a divorce but hurting her with an affair is ok? I don't get it. 
Now I know I'm probably setting myself up here for an onslaught of things(I can take it,I'm a grown woman) but I appreciate all honesty here and if I could get your opinions on as to why men cheat on their wives? And perhaps in this case why would he still stay?


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by eurodove_
> . . . . I don't understand the mentality of [his] not wanting to hurt her with a divorce but hurting her with an affair is ok? I don't get it. . . .


Nor would I, if the man were being honest with himself and you. But I doubt that he is.

From all that I've seen and experienced in more than fifty years of life, a man who truly loves a woman wants to spend as much time with her as possible; he wants to live with her, to marry her. As a lawyer who's handled way too many divorces, and as a friend who's heard way too many confidences, I can tell you that I think the man is spinning a story to allow himself transient pleasure without lasting joy. Why he would do that, you can determine at least as well as I.

I'm sorry.



> quote:. . . .why [do] men cheat on their wives?


Many reasons; none of them good. The most common seem to be traceable to selfishness and shallowness on the man's part: confusing sexual intercourse with the exchange of love, he's reluctant to adapt to his wife's needs and resents the constraints that commitment (ah, the word of the times!) sets forth -- constraints that actually liberate, as they allow the growth of a deeper, truer love than otherwise possible.

Of course, women can be just as selfish and shallow, prizing physical and financial security above a real love. Neither sex has a corner on virtue or its opposite.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

I agree with rws.

People cheat for three reasons:

1. A need is not being met in the primary relationship. Simple answer and very vague. This may not be the spouse's fault; she may not even be aware that he has a need that is not being met, be it sexual, emotional/romantic, etc.

2. They think the grass is greener. Some people find marriage stifling and idealize others.

3. They enjoy being naughty, and think "why not, as long as I can get away with it".

Given this man's prior relationship pattern, if #1 applies, he is either not communicating well or has unrealistic expectations, and if #2 or #3 apply, I do not think things would be different had he been married to you instead.

It sounds as if he is getting, as rws said, transient pleasure, and you are getting angst. Which really is not ideal.

*"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

Since its inception, I have wanted to stay out of this messy topic. For now I am too young to be concerned about â€œsoulmatesâ€- my friends currently provide sufficient companionship.

But the last three threads, beginning with eurodoveâ€™s contribution, simply require comment. And therefore:



> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
> I agree with rws.
> 
> ...


I agree also. When I was 10 my dad left my mum for a woman considerably younger. I would say he initially cheated for the very reasons VS lists. (Good grief, I hope my dad is not on this forum.) Yet his new relationship eventually failed, probably for the same reasons. To this day he remains a wannabe playboy (if a successful businessman), but to me he is just another selfish, cold-hearted bloke.

Since then he has tried to regain my respect (money for this and that, an occasional trip to Paris), but I have never seen any indication that he was ever sorry for the utter trauma as an only child I went though. It is no secret on this forum what my sexual preference is, and I could have gratefully used his support at the time it was most crucial. Call me burnedandfrozen.

Cheers to you, my dad.

"The Bishop of _Rome_ hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of _England_."
Thomas Cranmer, _The Book of Common Prayer_, Article XXXVII.​


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

Wow! What I thought would be a mostly overlooked kind of hokey posting sure has evolved.
I once read that when a man feels ready for marriage, he pops the question to whichever woman he happens to be seeing. This makes sense but is it a good idea? I mean if you are with someone you can't see yourself with for life then why bother? It's better for both involved to go their seperate ways I think.
I also have to agree with the list of reasons why people cheat. I think some people do this because they are scared of leaving the marriage for some reason.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by burnedandfrozen_
> 
> Wow! What I thought would be a mostly overlooked kind of hokey posting sure has evolved.


My friend, be careful what topics you initiate. (Sort of like the _Jurassic Park_ syndrome?)[]

Everything started out reasonably enough, -and I checked in occasionally to track the progress- but then it evolved into areas that were so utterly painful to me that I could no longer keep silence.

Of parallel interest is another topic in the Interchange, _Appeal of "Lad" Magazines_. So far nothing has galvanized me -and it may die on the vine- but I'm keeping an eye on it. As a 20 something I may yet want to offer some thoughts, albeit from a gay standpoint. Yet now is not the time...

"The Bishop of _Rome_ hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of _England_."
Thomas Cranmer, _The Book of Common Prayer_, Article XXXVII.​


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by ashie259_
> 
> I think the notion of a soulmate is frankly absurd. There are any number of people out there you could quite happily spend your life with. The trick - and problem - is finding someone who likes you back and is available at the right time.
> 
> ...


sorry, I don't think that you are right. I have a pretty perfect fit with my wife, and I can't imagine being married to anybody else.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by globetrotter_
> 
> sorry, I don't think that you are right. I have a pretty perfect fit with my wife, and I can't imagine being married to anybody else.


You are a very lucky man. My best wishes to you.


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

> quote: sorry, I don't think that you are right. I have a pretty perfect fit with my wife, and I can't imagine being married to anybody else.


Well, nor can I - now. But my point was that when we met, there were any number of potential candidates stalking the earth. They had their chance, and they blew it!


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## Mr. Knightly (Sep 1, 2005)

Nearly all marriages, even happy ones, are mistakes: in the sense that almost certainly (in a more perfect world, or even with a little more care in this very imperfect one) both partners might be found more suitable mates. But the real soul-mate is the one you are actually married to. - J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter to Michael Tolkien

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Knightly_
> 
> Nearly all marriages, even happy ones, are mistakes: in the sense that almost certainly (in a more perfect world, or even with a little more care in this very imperfect one) both partners might be found more suitable mates. But the real soul-mate is the one you are actually married to. - J. R. R. Tolkien, Letter to Michael Tolkien
> 
> ...


If I wanted to start a debate I think the whole soulmate idea is starting to ruin the dating culture and marriage to some extent.

My grandparents never talked about soulmates. They were married for 55 years.

Now people talk about soulmates. Girls I went to high school, college, and law school with screw around instead of going for the people that are interested in them long-term. Reason? They are just waiting for this soul-mate (who incidentally looks like Brad Pitt or something) to materialize. The guys are not any better. Everyone is cynical about the other gender. I hate sounding dramatic but I wonder if my generation is going to be the one that gives up on marriage because they are continuously frustrated by having to settle for something and not win this quest for a "soulmate".

I'm sure this was said at the beginning of each generation, just as the types of music that have been favored by each succeeding generation are (rightly or wrongly) considered lewd by their parents.

But in the case of soulmates, I believe the idea of the perfect, oh-so-perfect rather than very good and pleasant match has caused many people in my generation to set standards to the extent that they will never find the right person because they will never be satisfied.

For my own sake, obviously, I am hoping I'm wrong, and am always looking


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Coolidge wrote:
I hate sounding dramatic but I wonder if my generation is going to be the one that gives up on marriage because they are continuously frustrated by having to settle for something and not win this quest for a "soulmate".

~~~~~

I never hear the younger women at the gym speak about frustration in not finding a soul mate.

I do hear them speak about, what he does for a living, where he lives and what he drives all the while tabulating.

I never hear the younger men at the gym speak about frustration in not finding a soul mate.

I do hear them speak about, how great her "bod" is, how well she performs, and then somewhere near the end, what she does for a living.

I often think about what my daughters will face when their time comes,
Because currently, I see far too many people obsessed with money and sex with almost no regard for anything else, except, as Flatsix said, chasing the next shining object.

I would much prefer to see a quest for a soulmate than some of the quests I see currently.


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> . . . . I would much prefer to see a quest for a soulmate than some of the quests I see currently.


Amen!


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> I never hear the younger women at the gym speak about frustration in not finding a soul mate.
> 
> I never hear the younger men at the gym speak about frustration in not finding a soul mate.
> ...


Don't worry. In my experience, the views of the kind of punter you get at gyms are not representative of those of the rest of the community at large.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> Coolidge wrote:
> I hate sounding dramatic but I wonder if my generation is going to be the one that gives up on marriage because they are continuously frustrated by having to settle for something and not win this quest for a "soulmate".
> ...


I wasn't looking for a soulmate either, untill one day my whole perspective changed, and I decided that I wanted to find the right girl. it was a wierd thing, I went from being a confirmed bachlor to being on a quest for the right woman, pretty much over night. it wasn't a casual thing - I preobrably went on 200 or so first dates over a period of 2 years, maybe even more, before I found the one. and, strangly enough, she was totally differnt from all the girls I had always dated.


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## Mr. Di Liberti (Jan 24, 2006)

Soulmate (or soul mate) is a term sometimes used to designate someone with whom one has a feeling of deep affinity, friendship, love, strong intimacy or compatibility.

A related concept is that of the twin flame or twin soul - thought to be the ultimate soulmate, the one and only other half of one's soul, which all souls are driven to find and unite with.

However, not everyone who uses these terms intends them to carry such mystical connotations; they are sometimes used simply as an expression of strong emotional feeling for someone.

It seems to me, far to many people these days are serial monogamist. They'll go out with someone, fall in like and an intimate relationship before they really know each other. Only to realize at some point in the future, they have little if anything in common.

I also believe a lot of people don't understand that a happy and healthy relationship (at any level of Intimacy) requires an amount of effort.

Lack of open and honest communication may very well be the kiss of death for many relationships. Talking with not to, and really listening to what your partner has to say is a must.

Do soulmates exist, I have my doubts.

Anthony


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by burnedandfrozen_
> 
> Wow! What I thought would be a mostly overlooked kind of hokey posting sure has evolved.
> I once read that when a man feels ready for marriage, he pops the question to whichever woman he happens to be seeing. This makes sense but is it a good idea? I mean if you are with someone you can't see yourself with for life then why bother? It's better for both involved to go their seperate ways I think.
> I also have to agree with the list of reasons why people cheat. I think some people do this because they are scared of leaving the marriage for some reason.


You have too high an expectation for marriage. A wife is a domestic servant, if you cann't afford one. She's also the mother of your children, if you want a few. That is it. Marriage is for breeding. Therefore, you should have as many wives as you can afford and manage.

That soulmate, emotional bond crap is a sign of degeneracy of a society that has passed its peak.

The Gentle Cheetah


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> Coolidge wrote:
> I hate sounding dramatic but I wonder if my generation is going to be the one that gives up on marriage because they are continuously frustrated by having to settle for something and not win this quest for a "soulmate".
> ...


I see this too, but sense that it is the result of the polarization. Nobody settles. They either quest for soul mates, or they screw around and go after money and things. There's no middle ground.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by GentleCheetah_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Although, Gentle Cheetah, I'm sure you are aware that for most of us here in the U.S. more than one wife is not an option, even if we could afford and manage two or three, and even if you think it's something we should have.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

GentleCheetah wrote:
A wife is a domestic servant, if you canâ€™t afford one. She's also the mother of your children, if you want a few. That is it. Marriage is for breeding. Therefore, you should have as many wives as you can afford and manage.

~~~~

With all due respect,
as a teenage boy I thought having three wives would be the greatest thing in life.

But once you have children, once you have daughters, it is unimaginable how any man could raise their own daughters to accept such a place in life.

I will go without so they need not.
I will ensure they are educated and confident enough to take their place in life.
That is your role as father.
Anything less is unthinkable.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quoteo Soulmates Exist?


The God of this Universe has precisely the kind of dark sense of humour - and art - necessary to create the occasional soulmate. For those thusly matched, life will proceed on an inevitable course toward that destiny of meeting. The rest of us can look to them as inspiration for art, poetry, and music, whilst awaiting the punchline.


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by rojo_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I am well aware of that and countless legal issues surrounding marriage/divorce, girlfriends sueing boyfriend, boyfriends suing girlfriends, hookers suing patrons, so on and so forth. And I am not wealthy enough to support multiple wives. But there are ways to do this should you have the money and the desire (and some guts I shall point out).

The legal issues can be skirted. J. Paul Getty liked to have the woman sign a piece of paper before sleeping with her. You can do the same.

The more serious problem is what ZegnaMTL raised. That is, a man generally has attachment to his children: He wants to see them grow into excellent adults. Having multiple families presents a serious logistic problem. That said, it's better for you to impregnate another woman than to let another man impregnate her. Let's just be honest to ourselves. If you had the resources and power, you would father a lot of children with a lot of women. It's just human nature.

I also want to point out that so called soulmate thing was probably invented by "liberated" women who didn't want to perform their wifely duties. They said to the swindled men, "look, you have me as a soulmate. A soulmate is better than a domestic servant. You can talk to me like talking to an equal partner even though I cannot perform all those nice duties that you really, really desire -- woops, what I really meant is that by debasing yourself to my level, you allow me to control your thoughts and make you work for me, including doing household work."

The Gentle Cheetah


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by GentleCheetah_
> 
> You have too high an expectation for marriage. A wife is a domestic servant, if you cann't afford one. She's also the mother of your children, if you want a few. That is it. Marriage is for breeding. Therefore, you should have as many wives as you can afford and manage.
> 
> That soulmate,* emotional bond crap * is a sign of degeneracy of a society that has passed its peak.


So, Shakespeare was wrong? You don't believe in love and romance, if not the concept of a lone soulmate?

That seems quite cynical and joyless. It's like saying you should follow whichever career pays the most, whether you despise going to work or not. After all, it's just a business transaction, not hours of your waking life.

If that is the case, than a woman should just marry the richest, most genetically perfect man available -- after all, his husbandly duties are supporting her and producing sperm. As zegnamtl said, many people seem to be very shallow and mercenary. At least the romantics out there are seeking something more than a domestic or a wad of cash.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by GentleCheetah_
> 
> If you had the resources and power, you would father a lot of children with a lot of women. It's just human nature.


No, I promise you I would not. You're projecting your own desires onto me.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by rojo_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And dearest rojo, how do you think this is all playing out with me? As a young man this thread is utterly depressing. This is what I have to look forward to? Hopefully my friend, things are better with you.

But frankly why would I have _any_ reason to curtail my alcohol and cigarette consumption when life -as it is played out here- is apparently a bunch of BS anyway?

Respectfully,
Jason

"When Britain first at Heaven's Command arose from out the azure main, this was the character of the land and guardian angels sung the strain: Rule Britannia! Britannia rule the waves! Britons shall _*never*_ be slaves."


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

On the marriage and finances issue, here's an interesting 'food-for-thought' article:

I nearly choked when I read the reason one woman gave for why marriage is cheaper than being single, to wit:
_"When we were courting, my husband had a closet full of preppy shirts, striped ties, and khakis. Now he pretty much wears the same blue New York Giant's sweatshirt and Gap jeans all the time. I haven't worn perfume since the first Bush Administration."_

Ye Gods, another Trad or near-Trad lost!

DD


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Wow, Gentle Cheetah--you're at least half-kidding, right? Because, if not, brrrrrrrrrrrrrr.


Soulmates? I dunno. A useful concept for poets, mostly.

But mature, clear-eyed, companionable love, with lots of laughs, mutual respect and trust, unconditional support, fun in the sheets, and the happy prospect of growing old together?

That certainly does exist. I've enjoyed it for twelve years now.

Why do men cheat?

Why does one take a second piece of pie, a third cocktail, sleep past 11:00?

It's appetite. Men (and women, I assume) are attracted to many, many people, and when that happens, every instinct screams "SLEEP WITH HER!" It's frankly annoying.

It's my guess that very often this is the sole reason for infidelity--I'll leave all of that "insecure in the marriage, issues with XYZ" stuff to Dr. Phil.

One just WANTS to, regardless of how wonderful one's spouse is. That old cliche "It had nothing to do with you" is probably completely true, 9 times out of 10.

Marriage requires the conscious choice to fight that instinct. Many fail. It's not a "natural" way to act.

That's why those vows have meaning.


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

Well, sometimes it takes an extreme form of expression to counter the status quo. There is nothing wrong in what I said. Mine was an expression of human instincts. The reality limits the degree to which our instincts can be played out. Over time, social conditioning and personal experience tend to blur the line between the EFFECTs of those limitations and our instincts. In other words, we take what the society expects of us and what is dangerous to undertake as what our instinct allows and not allows. Translation: We become a moral, upright citizen because of suppression of natural instincts. Is it good or bad? You are the judge.

But I do have to say, IMHO, romatic love should not be the basis for marriage. A marriage is a form of business; its primary aim is to bring up the children.

A lot of men look for their personal happiness and understanding in their female counterparts. I think at least to some men that kind of hope/wish is a big mistake. I can go on and on, touching subjects such as career, hobbies, etc., etc.. But I shut up.

The Gentle Cheetah


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

I hope people don't take it too personally. My views tend to be way different from most people's. Just take them as entertainment, if you strongly disagree with them. Retorts are more than welcome, although I won't engage myself in arguments. Nobody truly wins in a debate. The best a debate can do is to force each side to better understand the other side's position.

The Gentle Cheetah


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

This is quite funny, actually:



"I've been with my wife for more than 20 years. That's a lot of time to put into a long-term investment. 

I've grown used to her. I'm comfortable with her. Frankly, I'd be lost without her. But I guess I'd feel that way about pretty much anybody who was from the same age group, economic tier, and level of education, and who I happened to marry 20-odd years ago, back when it was time to acquire a wife."


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

VS,

How utterly horrible!
Poor Mrs. Brant, unless of course she feels the same way,
in that case, they deserve each other and make a perfect match!


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Thank you, VS! I browsed around after that article and found this one:

Eighty Percent Of Al-Qaeda No. 2s Now Dead

February 1, 2006 | Issue 42â€¢05

WASHINGTON, DCâ€"The Pentagon announced Monday that 80 percent of Osama bin Laden's seconds-in-command have been eliminated. "Nearly 1,600 al-Qaeda leaders ranked number two have been wiped out," Lt. Col. Mark Allison said. "That leaves only 400 of Osama bin Laden's right-hand men in the organization." Following the apparent failure to kill bin Laden's No. 2 man Ayman al-Zawahri in a missile strike on a Pakistani border town on Jan. 13, American forces intensified the search for al-Qaeda second-in-command Ahmed Al-Zahnami, or, failing that, No. 2 man Amman al-Zaharani, or No. 2 man Ahmed al-Zafarani.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

The Onion never disappoints if you're looking for a touch of parody.


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## marc_au (Apr 22, 2004)

Soulmates do exist! They can't always live together though.

*GR8MAN (The Shooman) B8MAN.*


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> VS,
> 
> ...


Mr Brandt looks pretty young. I wonder how Mrs B feels about him seeing her as something you only use twice a year? Maybe she makes her own arrangements the rest of the time...


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## LPinFla (Jan 7, 2005)

In marc au's case, solemates do exist!


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Good one, LP!


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