# Disturbing Comments By Religious Affairs Minister



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Just to keep the world on its toes, the Religious Affairs Minister in Pakistan had some comments regarding the upcoming knighthood of Salman Rushdie:



> "This is an occasion for the (world's) 1.5 billion Muslims to look at the seriousness of this decision," Mohammed Ijaz ul-Haq, religious affairs minister, later said in parliament. "The West is accusing Muslims of extremism and terrorism. If someone exploded a bomb on his body he would be right to do so unless the British government apologizes and withdraws the 'sir' title," ul-Haq said, also urging Muslim countries to break diplomatic ties with London.
> 
> "If Muslims do not unite, the situation will get worse and Salman Rushdie may get a seat in the British parliament."


Available at:

Ah, the Religion of Peace. I shall sleep better tonight knowing ul-Haq is on the job!


----------



## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

> If someone exploded a bomb on his body he would be right to do so


With any luck and a little bit of planning, maybe they'll gather in an isolated area or island (to reduce the collateral damage) and bomb themselves into oblivion.

See, that comment from the Religious Affairs minister is terrorism right there... the constant threats of what these kookoo birds will do. Fine... blow yourselves up. Just stop taking other people with you.


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Yes, but that doen't make any impact. 
I always think of this from _Good Morning, Vietnam! _:
"How hot is it? It's so hot I saw one of those guys in the orange robes burst into flames!" LOL

Once it's in a movie, it has jumped-the-shark.


----------



## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Ah, the Religion of Peace. I shall sleep better tonight knowing ul-Haq is on the job!


It's only a minority of muslims who feel this way - like around a ten million of them (1%), the rest are indeed peace loving.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Wayfarer,

You will sleep even better at night realizing that Pakistan has nuclear weapons.

I wonder what makes these guys tick, besides the time bombs they strap to themselves! (Credit to Dennis Miller for that line.)

Karl


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Ah yes, the religion of peace - - - -

It's interesting how none of the supposedly vast majority of "non-radical" Muslims ever protests any of this bullying and murder. (And always totally half-heartedly and ineffectively when they do.)


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

rkipperman said:


> It's only a minority of muslims who feel this way - like around a ten million of them (1%), the rest are indeed peace loving.


Would not 15 million be 1% of 1.5 billion? Also, recent surveys put it higher than that by far, that would justify suicide bombing. Additionally, this "minority" is a high ranking government official of a nuclear power. However, either way, I think we should push for Six Sigma (or better). I know just one suicide bomber would really ruin my day.....


----------



## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Would not 15 million be 1% of 1.5 billion? Also, recent surveys put it higher than that by far, that would justify suicide bombing. Additionally, this "minority" is a high ranking government official of a nuclear power. However, either way, I think we should push for Six Sigma (or better). I know just one suicide bomber would really ruin my day.....


Can you point to the survery showing 1.5 billion?


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

rkipperman said:


> Can you point to the survery showing 1.5 billion?


Read the article I quoted. The good minister provided the 1.5 billion. I assumed that was the number you were using.

Regardless though, as I stated, one suicide bomber is enough to ruin my day. I hope to never meet one personally.

Cheers


----------



## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Ah yes, the religion of peace - - - -
> 
> It's interesting how none of the supposedly vast majority of "non-radical" Muslims ever protests any of this bullying and murder. (And always totally half-heartedly and ineffectively when they do.)


How vigorously do you or your friends apologize to Pakistanis every time Pat Robertson says anything nutty?


----------



## Tom Bell-Drier (Mar 1, 2006)

try living in Britain , where we now have our very own home grown muslim suicide bombers, and terrorists.

try having an opinion that goes against the official dictat of multi culturism, and political correctness, and run the risk of being accused of racism and inflaming race hatred, and the consequences therein.

read the British press ( not the guardian I hasten to add) and see the letters pages of the opinions of middle England.

the whole Salman Rushdie thing started in a northern Mill town in England called Bradford at least 15 years ago where the British flag was burned and rioting occured in protest at salman rushdies book where a fatwah was declared on his life and further reiterated by the then leader of Iran Iyatolah khonemmi.

In all fairness to The united states the muslim problem only really came into the public conciusness post 911, in britain we have been living with ever increasing threats from that section of the community for over a decade.

these were people we accepted with open arms , provided working opportunities , education, a benefits system, social housing and the protection that went with being british citizens. 

I hasten to add I am not racist ,Britain has a long and proud tradition and history of immigration from India, the west Indies ,Jamaica, Poland, vietnam, sri lanka ,almost all the countrys within the continent of Africa , europe and beyond.

all these people have retained much of their cultural Identity yet been willing to assimilate into the larger populus. yet not the muslim population.

a recent poll revealed that 59% of the British population given the opportunity would emigrate from the country such is the discontent and disatisfaction.

can nearly 35 million people be wrong.


----------



## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> It's interesting how none of the supposedly vast majority of "non-radical" Muslims ever protests any of this bullying and murder. (And always totally half-heartedly and ineffectively when they do.)


What are your news sources? I have read many such protests myself.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Conncordia,

How many terrorists is Liberty University harboring? Terribly flawed analogy.

Karl


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Concordia said:


> How vigorously do you or your friends apologize to Pakistanis every time Pat Robertson says anything nutty?


Tell ya what. Look at the picture of effigies being burned on this link. Read this quote from the link:



> If someone exploded a bomb on his body, he would be right to do so unless the British government apologizes and withdraws the 'sir' title," ul-Haq said..... Every religion should be respected. I demand the British government immediately withdraw the title as it is creating religious hatred," Niazi told the National Assembly.


Here is a very key difference too: Pat Robertson is not a Cabinet Minister. I do hope you can see the difference? Also, I have yet to hear Pat talk about exploding a bomb on a person for being honoured by another government nor burn people in effigy. Apples, meet Oranges.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

*More Good News....*

https://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/exclusive_suici.html



> Large teams of newly trained suicide bombers are being sent to the United States and Europe, according to evidence contained on a new videotape obtained by the Blotter on ABCNews.com


I wonder what precautions these suicide bombers are going to take to make sure no one that "feels their pain" gets caught up in the blasts?


----------



## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Étienne said:


> What are your news sources? I have read many such protests myself.


How are the Citroen barbecues over there these days? I hear Lamb a la Citroen is the new national dish :icon_smile_big:

M8


----------



## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> How are the Citroen barbecues over there these days?


Seriously, do you never get tired of the same old francophobia? You really have nothing better to say?


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Pakistan is by fiat an ISLAMIC State instead of a united India which includes Hindu, Sikhe, Jain, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Christian - oh and moslem citizens. And Pakistan used to be in two pieces until Bangladesh declared independance. To be called a 'Minister for religous Affairs' seems rather grand considering there is only one religon. He is, in fact, Minister for Islam and like his peers in other ISLAMIC nations is the de facto enforcer of keeping it Islam. Pat Robertson, Danish Cartoons, Salmon Rushdie are expressions of open societies. The solution, though onerous is to be less open, at least to adherants of closed societies like Islam. This was successful once, indeed a cup of coffee and a croissant are direct cultural artifacts of an earlier Europe that did just that. The breakup of Yugoslavia included the horrific 'ethnic cleansing' by Slobodan Milosojik and Co. This was a sad conclusion to a vestigal bit of history not commemerated in breakfast dishes. Up until WW2 islamic chetniks were fighting christian Serbs until Tito came to power. I find it interesting we could observe a truce for Rammadan along with touchy feely postage stamps in Round 1 of US vs Iraq. Curiously, Clinton observed no such truce bombing Yugolsavia during Easter. The West is like a kidnap victim, bonding to it's kidnappers and rejecting the SWAT team. Geshe Pak minister can sit on it and spin.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Kav said:


> I find it interesting we could observe a truce for Rammadan along with touchy feely postage stamps in Round 1 of US vs Iraq. Curiously, Clinton observed no such truce bombing Yugolsavia during Easter. The West is like a kidnap victim, bonding to it's kidnappers and rejecting the SWAT team. Geshe Pak minister can sit on it and spin.


Excellent call Kav. I point the interested reader also to the recent BBC study on itself. One particular thing that came out is that staff would *not* show a copy of the Koran being mistreated yet were happy to show any number of indignities being done to copies of the Bible. The West may not be committing suicide but it certainly is buying the gun and paying to give its erst-while murderers shooting lessons.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

I wonder how much fear controls the 99% of peace loving Muslims into doing nothing?

I think Europe will eventually come to it's sences and start deporting their Muslim citizens and making them non-citizens. What is happening in Europe has got to change. European Muslims rejecting Western Civiliziation has got to come to an end.


----------



## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Étienne said:


> Seriously, do you never get tired of the same old francophobia? You really have nothing better to say?


Oh c'mon get a grip. If you recall, I am one of the few here who defends French culture and history. Past and present.

You obviously have no sense of humor ic12337:

M8


----------



## Tom Bell-Drier (Mar 1, 2006)

Martinis at 8 said:


> Oh c'mon get a grip. If you recall, I am one of the few here who defends French culture and history. Past and present.
> 
> You obviously have no sense of humor ic12337:
> 
> M8


For sale 20,000 circa 1939 french army rifles only dropped once


----------



## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Tom Bell-Drier said:


> For sale 20,000 circa 1939 french army rifles only dropped once


I thought those were Italian rifles :icon_smile_big:

Read _A World Undone_. It's a good treatise on the French military during World War 1. Fact is, Blitzkrieg was a revolution in warfare and would have caught any nation by surprise for World War 2. All of Germany's neighbors fell to it, not just France. It was a _fait accompli_ before anyone could react in what was then the traditional manner. Whereas WW1 was the opposite in that once both sides started mobilizing, it was impossible to stop the starting of war no one really wanted. Poor Germany in that case, as Austria-Hungary was the real belligerent in starting that one.

M8


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

A serious study of WW2 will find an obscure french general briefly repulsing and then COUNTERATTACKING successfully using the same mobile tactics before having to fall back.


----------



## Mr. Papa (Jun 15, 2007)

I respect Rushdie's freedom to have published _The Satanic Verses_, but I think knighting him in the current political climate was painfully stupid. If Pakistan 'knighted' Osama bin Laden tomorrow, there'd be a public outcry here also, and rightfully so. I could easily argue that _The Satanic Verses_ was just a book, and nowhere near the same as a bombing, but I don't think that's the point. Given the events in Israel and Iraq, and the bizarre interchange we're having with Iran, knighting Rushdie isn't just disrespectful, it's provocative, and his words and ideas have now become even more powerful weapons in the hands of fundamentalists. Which is why we should oppose fundamentalism on all fronts--it's a failure of the kind of critical thinking that allows one to differentiate between a sentence and a bomb.



Karl89 said:


> Conncordia, How many terrorists is Liberty University harboring?


Not sure about Liberty, but many Regent University (Robertson's school) grads are highly-placed in the Bush administration, which is considered to be a fundamentalist, terrorist regime in some regions of the world. I doubt that it's directly connected to Regent, or it's questionable academic rigor, but that assertion is floating around. It could just be a failure of critical thinking, imagination, and courage in general, but why did Regent students proliferate in that environment?


----------



## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

Martinis at 8 said:


> You obviously have no sense of humor


On the Interchange? Regarding uncalled-for French jokes? I must admit it got tiresome about one year ago.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Mr. Papa said:


> I respect Rushdie's freedom to have published _The Satanic Verses_, but I think knighting him in the current political climate was painfully stupid. If Pakistan 'knighted' Osama bin Laden tomorrow, there'd be a public outcry here also, and rightfully so. *I could easily argue that The Satanic Verses was just a book, and nowhere near the same as a bombing, but I don't think that's the point.*


Wow, 9th post and already a muslim extremist apologist. New record I think.

Sorry, when we get Cabinet Ministers calling to suicide bomb someone for writing books, you'll have a leg to stand on.

P.S. That is exactly the point.


----------



## OscarTheWild (Jan 8, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> Wow, 9th post and already a muslim extremist apologist. New record I think.
> 
> Sorry, when we get Cabinet Ministers calling to suicide bomb someone for writing books, you'll have a leg to stand on.
> 
> P.S. That is exactly the point.


I too am disturbed by the comments by this minister. These fringe lunatics were never able to get more than 2 or 3 % of the vote in the past. However, during the time of the military dictator, Zia, they started getting stronger. Zia, and his religious extremism were strongly supported by the US. These radicals (and their evil madrassas ) were also supported by the US because they produced the Mujahedeen to fight against the soviets.

Suddenly, these people had power, clout and political presence and with the help of the US and Saudis, flush with cash and organization skills (Saudis are not known for organization skills, guess where these guys acquired them). Even after the soviets had been defeated, the US continued support of the radicals. The prime reason was that radicallized sunnis (who think shia are infidels and should be eliminated) were considered the best bet against Iran. Pakistan became the playground for the proxy war between iran (shias) and the sunnis (Saudis & CIA).

Post 9-11, the support for these radicals was cut-off. But it is a huge apparatus, with tremendous inertia. On top of it, it now appears to have life of its own.

Musharaf needed to clean house of corrupt politicians. So he banned a large number of them for standing in elections. An unfortunate and unforseen result was that a sizeable number of the islamist party candidates won. (If you disallow most Republicans and Democrats from the next election, who do you think will win elections in the US? ).

The *sad part is that US is still supporting extremists*.

https://www.signonsandiego.com/news/w...militants.html

This group is closely linked with Al Qaeda.

The same rationale is being used again. Radical sunnis against a radical shia iran. The nuance is that these guys value their ethnic affiliation (Baluchis) and religious affliliation (sunnis) more than their global affiliation (Al Qaeda).

The moderates in PK had long ago asked the US to stop support for these radicals.

So people like these are in political offices as part of power sharing. The minister for religous affairs is a largely a ceremonial title. As a federal minister, the person has a ministry to answer to him, and some discretionary allocation of funds and contracts to his sycophants. I do not think the prime minister or the president or for the most part, the population pay any importance to him. I think he would be surprised and very flattered that his comments have become the item of discussion for a clothes enthusiasts group in the US. *Please, ignore people like this. They crave attention* and their ridulous comments are attempts to garner it.

-


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

The Bolsheviks thought Stalin a PITA and gave him a post nobody else wanted. Guess who used the obscure office of intelligence to gain supreme power? We call his post ceremonial, Musharef calls his post ceremonial. What do the fools on the streets call it?


----------



## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Wow, 9th post and already a muslim extremist apologist. New record I think.
> 
> Sorry, when we get Cabinet Ministers calling to suicide bomb someone for writing books, you'll have a leg to stand on.
> 
> P.S. That is exactly the point.


I think that Mr. Papa makes a valid point. It is reasonable to not try to pour gasoline on a fire. It may be a fine line, but standing up to the fanatics (a good thing) is different from being provocative (not always so good).


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

KenR said:


> I think that Mr. Papa makes a valid point. It is reasonable to not try to pour gasoline on a fire. It may be a fine line, but standing up to the fanatics (a good thing) is different from being provocative (not always so good).


I am sorry Ken, I have to continue to disagree. Is Britain a soveriegn nation or not? It needs to be free to decide who the Queen can tap on the shoulder with a sword. It needs to be free to do this without calls for suicide bombers from nuclear powers.

Do not dismiss such calls for action, these people take action. To wit: cartoonists need to be free to make satire without worrying about death threats or causing riots, millions in property damage, embassy closings, and deaths during the riots. Film makers need to be able to make films without fear of being stabbed to death on an open street.

Where does it stop? These Islamic bullies grow more daring with each episode that they are not crushed. The revolution is coming and it is carrying a Koran.


----------



## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

And I agree that we need to stand up to Islamic bullies. We don't need to start a fight but when provoked, we need to end it. I may be a little iffy on knighting Salmon Rushdie but I do not have a problem with countering fatwas, death threats, riots or other Islamic bullying with hmmmmm....let's see...maybe a B-52 strike?


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> Religious Leader Deems Octane Magazine Photos 'Blasphemy,' Threatens Death to Editor
> Cleric Maulana Abdul Aziz said at Friday prayers June 15 "the managers of this magazine deserve to die" and threatened death against the editor, the publisher and other staff of Octane for "blasphemy towards the Hazrat (prophet) Adam".


Not to be outdone:

https://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=126&art_id=nw20070620112908423C340437



> Islamabad - A hard-line Pakistani parliamentarian and head of a religious political party on Wednesday demanded a "sir" title for Osama bin Laden, the leader of the al-Qaeda terrorist network, in retaliation for Britain knighting author Salman Rushdie.
> 
> "Muslims should confer the 'sir' title and all other awards on bin Laden and Mullah Omar in reply to Britain's shameful decision to knight Rushdie," Sami ul Haq, leader of the pro-Taliban Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, said in a statement, referring also to the leader of the Taliban.


These guys can party. Pretty interesting how to them, an author and two mastermind terrorists are equals. So happy to know they are helping to rule a nuclear power.


----------

