# a good pair of "reds" to start with?



## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

Would be a good selection for my first pair of "reds"?


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## unmodern (Aug 10, 2009)

One 24-year-old's opinion: the lightweight fabric + unusual color + chemically enhanced crease makes those seem unnecessarily fuddy-duddy. And not trad/Americana fuddy-duddy, just kind of "grandpa." I'd go for BB or J. Crew over that. I'd go for something in regular-weight chino fabric, at least for a first pair. My 2c


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

Not a big fan of no-iron and the LE no-iron twills I have are disturbingly shiny. I would probably steer clear and maybe try a pair of legacy chinos or something from their new chino line.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Currently E-bay has some dead stock Sea Island trousers for just a little over what those Lands End cost. 
I am not sure what your requirements are but my order of preference is cotton canvas duck, cotton twill, Sea Island and then poplin. The last two are certainly summer pants but are not "Reds" in the "Nantucket Reds" sense.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Wow, those are really red! There are better options. See unmodern's recommendations in post #2! Good lunk in the hunt!


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

eagle2250 said:


> Wow, those are really red! There are better options. See unmodern's recommendations in post #2! Good lunk in the hunt!


Thanks to all. Still learning this stuff, I appreciate the guidance.


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

Have to agree with unmodern. Those don't look remotely comfortable either.


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## statboy (Sep 1, 2010)

Get the must-iron Legacy ones at LE. I have them and they're great. Got them for about $20. Super soft. Much better than the junk they sell at jcrew. And does BB even make must-iron chinos anymore?


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

Why not just get a pair of authentic ones from Murrays?


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

LLBean had some last year that I bought and really like although they don't seem to be on their site. I think they're in the 1912 line but I'd need to double check. They aren't shiny like the LE ones, more distressed. LLB Signature also had some last year.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

I just bought a pair of these in Heart Red. It was a very lucky situation, they were on sale and my wife wasn't there to stop me. They are fantastic:

https://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4360392&parentPage=family


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

DoghouseReilly said:


> Not a big fan of no-iron and the LE no-iron twills I have are disturbingly shiny. I would probably steer clear and maybe try a pair of legacy chinos or something from their new chino line.


LE fabric and finish seem very inconsistent to me. It's as if they run out of fabric or change vendors every month!!


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

https://www.nantucketreds.com/


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## SconnieTrad (Mar 16, 2011)

DoghouseReilly said:


> Not a big fan of no-iron and the LE no-iron twills I have are disturbingly shiny. I would probably steer clear and maybe try a pair of legacy chinos or something from their new chino line.


Funny you should mention that, I just sent back a pair in "Pewter" that were so shiny they almost sparkled!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

DoghouseReilly said:


> Not a big fan of no-iron and the LE no-iron twills I have are disturbingly shiny. I would probably steer clear and maybe try a pair of legacy chinos or something from their new chino line.





statboy said:


> Get the must-iron Legacy ones at LE. I have them and they're great. Got them for about $20. Super soft. Much better than the junk they sell at jcrew. And does BB even make must-iron chinos anymore?


The Legacy Chino is discontinued, they only have Original and Casual Chino now.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> It's as if they run out of fabric or change vendors every month!!


If I had no life at all, I'd be keeping track of vendor numbers because I have seen them vary widely even under one item number. That was most infuriating when they switched their loafers to rubber soles and discontinued 360-degree boat shoe lacing while keeping the same numbers.


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

Jovan said:


> The Legacy Chino is discontinued, they only have Original and Casual Chino now.


Check the Overstocks. I picked up a pair of the reds in the Legacy Chino for $12. No permanent crease. I'm not especially happy with the fit but for the price they are a steal.

Just checked, they are back to $14.97.


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## CM Wolff (Jun 7, 2006)

statboy said:


> And does BB even make must-iron chinos anymore?


For the last two seasons they've made some terrific ones...the Vintage Chinos.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

Jovan said:


> The Legacy Chino is discontinued, they only have Original and Casual Chino now.


They discontinued the Legacy Chino? For the season or forever?! I live and breathe in these pants.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Forever, apparently. Supposedly the new ones have thicker fabric. I'll see how good they are one of these days.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I've got to be honest, the new Original Chinos are some of the best on the market for under $100. They're very different from the legacy chinos, but I can't imagine someone wouldn't find them an improvement. Give them a shot at the next markdown.


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

Sartre said:


> Why not just get a pair of authentic ones from Murrays?


I bought a pair and they looked great. I noticed the "Made in China" tab and sent them back.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Trip English said:


> I've got to be honest, the new Original Chinos are some of the best on the market for under $100. They're very different from the legacy chinos, but I can't imagine someone wouldn't find them an improvement. Give them a shot at the next markdown.


How's the rise??


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

Larsd4 said:


> I bought a pair and they looked great. I noticed the "Made in China" tab and sent them back.


Did you do so because you assume Chinese goods are inferior, or because you want to support American manufacturing?


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

The Nobby Shop reds are USA made and not priced all that high.


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

Sartre said:


> Did you do so because you assume Chinese goods are inferior, or because you want to support American manufacturing?


I avoid Chinese goods to promote American jobs. The pants were very well made and they fit great. I had to force myself to send them back. I'm sick of seeing out of work Americans with no hope.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Trip English said:


> I've got to be honest, the new Original Chinos are some of the best on the market for under $100. They're very different from the legacy chinos, but I can't imagine someone wouldn't find them an improvement. Give them a shot at the next markdown.


Thanks, will do. My only problem with the Legacy Chino besides the rise --a little too low on Tailored Fit, it's since been heightened due to complaints like mine according to the rep I spoke to -- was the really wrinkle prone fabric. The other chinos I own are softer/thicker, and thus wrinkle far less than the Legacy.



mjo_1 said:


> The Nobby Shop reds are USA made and not priced all that high.


Thanks for the link. Those are actually less than Murray's is charging for their overseas stuff. If I could just find the courage to wear Nantucket reds...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

WouldaShoulda said:


> How's the rise??


Indeed, the rise would also be the litmus test for me to buy the chinos. It is really hard to find find chinos waisted() so that they sit where they should, at a man's natural waist! :icon_scratch:


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Trip English said:


> I've got to be honest, the new Original Chinos are some of the best on the market for under $100. They're very different from the legacy chinos, but I can't imagine someone wouldn't find them an improvement. Give them a shot at the next markdown.


I was excited about the new chinos, but am disappointed that they have forgotten tall men. Seems like LE is carrying fewer and fewer pants in long rise. Their khakis used to be my go to, but other than a few pleated varieties, that source has dried up.


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## dshell (Mar 17, 2007)

I've got a pair of these and are happy with them.



mjo_1 said:


> The Nobby Shop reds are USA made and not priced all that high.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Bandit44 said:


> I was excited about the new chinos, but am disappointed that they have forgotten tall men. Seems like LE is carrying fewer and fewer pants in long rise. Their khakis used to be my go to, but other than a few pleated varieties, that source has dried up.


It's a shame, yes. I could use the long rise at 6'1. The worst part is that they indicate Tailored Long on the size chart when none exist!


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

Larsd4 said:


> I avoid Chinese goods to promote American jobs. The pants were very well made and they fit great. I had to force myself to send them back. I'm sick of seeing out of work Americans with no hope.


Understood.

You didn't say this personally, but while we're on the subject, as long as members of this forum expect to pay $15-20 for a pair of trousers then jobs will continue to be shipped overseas.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Sartre said:


> Understood.
> 
> You didn't say this personally, but while we're on the subject, as long as members of this forum expect to pay $15-20 for a pair of trousers then jobs will continue to be shipped overseas.


I sincerely doubt that's the attitude of the members on this forum. Lars was referring to a pair of Made in China pants that cost $72.50, not $15-$20. As proven by the pants from the Nobby Shop, quality, Made in USA clothing can be had at a price point which, in general, the members here are willing to pay. I don't think anyone is expecting "Made in USA" for "Imported" prices.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

I don't have any experience with LE. I don't shop there and they may be just fine. I disagree with the "junk at J Crew" remark though. Some of my favorite chinos, including reds are from there. I find the fit and quality to be exceptional and they can be had on sale for a fair price.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> ...Made in USA clothing can be had at a price point which, in general, the members here are willing to pay...


...As long as it's on sale, discounted, discontinued, overstocked, or thrifted.

BTW I was not addressing Lars personally, he had a valid point.


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## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

Hey all,

I have a pair of Bill's M3 vintage twill weathered reds that I rather like. For some reason, the fit on them is a bit looser than my other M3s, but that's my only real beef. They're a solid twill, wear well, and made in the USA. Plus, I got them off Sierra Trading Post for a song.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

I have not found an American made canvas red pant yet. The Orvis model is imported

The Murray's Toggery model is imported https://www.nantucketreds.com/collections/nantucket-reds-collection/products/nr-mens-pants-reds

The Nobby Shop trousers are Twills, (They might be American made Berles like the ones Press had, can not say for sure) right now. They look like the lowest retail price American made twill at $65.00.(Brickmans has pants at about the sameprice point no information about country of origin ) Generically speaking American made Khaki twills seems to be running from $65.00-$275.00.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

I have a pair of the Orvis reds. I like them but as is the case with most everything Orvis sells they are not worth the non-sale price. I purchased mine a year or two ago for $49.- and, in my opinion, they are just barely worth that.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

I have just found an American made pair of canvas trousers, https://www.sidmashburn.com/shop/trousers/canvas-button-fly-trouser-red.html



C. Sharp said:


> I have not found an American made canvas red pant yet. The Orvis model is imported
> 
> The Murray's Toggery model is imported https://www.nantucketreds.com/collections/nantucket-reds-collection/products/nr-mens-pants-reds
> 
> The Nobby Shop trousers are Twills, (They might be American made Berles like the ones Press had, can not say for sure) right now. They look like the lowest retail price American made twill at $65.00.(Brickmans has pants at about the sameprice point no information about country of origin ) Generically speaking American made Khaki twills seems to be running from $65.00-$275.00.


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## Bricktop (Feb 10, 2010)

C. Sharp said:


> I have just found an American made pair of canvas trousers, https://www.sidmashburn.com/shop/trousers/canvas-button-fly-trouser-red.html


Wow, those are *RED!*


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

and seem unlikley to fade to the _Nantucket_ shade of red we've come to know. I've also never seen a pair of reds with a button fly.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Indeed, they are bright enough to make even the 'house madame' blush!


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Sartre said:


> You didn't say this personally, but while we're on the subject, as long as members of this forum expect to pay $15-20 for a pair of trousers then jobs will continue to be shipped overseas.


I also don't want to hijack this thread, but I completely agree on this point. It seems to be a knee-jerk reaction that, no matter what the product is, it will be worth it once it's marked down. There seems to be some widely held belief that retailers who charge a fair price are sitting in wood paneled rooms running their thumbs through bricks of cash and chomping down on a churchill.

Anyone who's in the retail business knows how mercilessly expensive it is to operate an establishment and to hear otherwise very thoughtful people insisting that the correct price for anything is 40% less than the asking price can be very disheartening. For a community that, on its face, seems dedicated to quality and longevity, I think it's startling how much time is devoted to paying the least amount possible for anything and ignoring the deteriorating effects this has on the marketplace.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ Your points are valid Trip. But perhaps there a middle ground here. 

As has been mentioned by another reply I don't believe that most members here at AAAC are looking for a pair of trousers for $15-$20-. 

But, in my opinion, before one can complain about people who want something for nothing, (which essentially is what you're doing I believe) one must define a dollar range, at least roughly, of what a fair price is.

The Orvis Breton red canvas pants I referenced list for $90.- which is a fair price for a half decent quality pair of casual trousers. Except for the fact that the fit and finish of this product is atrocious by most anyone's standard!

Knowing how poorly they're sewn with slight puckers where the fabric is bunched in between stitches, undoubtedly because they're being sewn as fast as possible in a sweatshop somewhere is the developing world, I truly believe they should be priced around $30.-

It's not wrong to point this out.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

$90? Jeez! I'll definitely get the Nobby ones for $20 less. Again, if I can gather the courage. (And my girlfriend doesn't chew me out for buying "bright pink pants". :icon_smile_big


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> ^^ Your points are valid Trip. But perhaps there a middle ground here.
> 
> As has been mentioned by another reply I don't believe that most members here at AAAC are looking for a pair of trousers for $15-$20-.
> 
> ...


You're bringing up some points I'd like to discuss further, but I don't want to hijack this thread any more than it's already been hijacked (especially since I haven't seen any great suggestions for reds!), so I'll start another thread this evening. If anyone would like to join me or start the thread themselves I'll see them there.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

*On the wayward subject of reds...*

Here's my 2 cents:

If we consider the Murray's Toggery reds the quintessential pair, then a lot of the pants on the market are out of the running. There's a place for red pants (I have a pair of fire engine red pants that I love, for example), but "reds" have a very distinct character. They start of a sort of dusty red and fade to a pale pink.

*1. Murray's:* They're so affordable that you can start with the genuine article.

*2. Vineyard Vines:* I'm usually allergic to anything be-whaled, but I've seen so many pairs that I mistook for Murray's before seeing the whale that I have to give them credit for a worthy replica.

*3. J.Crew:* If you're looking for a slim pair, J.Crew made a very convincing pair. I say _made_ because the current models seem to have gone in a different direction.

*4. Land's End:* Like J.Crew, it appears they've gone in a different direction. As recently as last summer I picked up a pair of shorts, the legacy chino 6" shorts, that have worn much like a pair of Murray's.

Good luck.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks to all for the input. I just ordered the following from Lands' End:
Shorts: in Vintage Brick
Chinos: 

I know the pleated shorts aren't trad, but I can use the extra room in the thighs.

Francis


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## Quintilianus (Sep 12, 2011)

For those interested, these Dockers are on sale for $14.99 on the Sears website, right now. 100% cotton. Color ("barn door red") discontinued. I just ordered a pair yesterday. I would recommend trying on the same fit of Dockers in a store, before ordering. For a more "trad" fit, you could check the Dockers website; the site allows one to view pants by color, and a few other red-ish options are also on sale, at present.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

frosejr said:


> I know the pleated shorts aren't trad, but I can use the extra room in the calves.


How exactly are you going to be wearing these shorts?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Maybe he meant thighs?


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

Jovan said:


> Maybe he meant thighs?


I did indeed. Sorry about that.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I just assumed he was anticipating the response of the ladies when they saw has handsome new shorts!


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

Trip English said:


> I just assumed he was anticipating the response of the ladies when they saw has handsome new shorts!


Fingers crossed


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

frosejr said:


> Thanks to all for the input. I just ordered the following from Lands' End:
> Shorts: in Vintage Brick
> Chinos:
> 
> ...


These came today, and they have to go back. The color is right, and I like the look...but the rise is terrible for me (6'3 and a little extra in the middle) and I fooled myself into thinking I could do 42s. Not yet. 44s for me.


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

I just bought a pair of those LE plain front Legacy chinos in vintage brick myself. They were also my first pair of "Reds". I'm pretty happy with them, especially for $14.97. Mine fit very well and the fabric has a nice feel. I'm hoping they will fade with washing.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

The previous season's selection included a color actually _called_ "Nantucket Red', and which compared to the (then) newly introduced brick, appeared more faded. That's not to say that the brick won't fade to the same shade over time, but they aren't what LE considers the same color.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I thought I'd post a comparison since I see a past season red's still there:

Vintage Brick:









Nantucket Red:


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

^^thanks for the comparison. I returned both pairs because of the rise. When they add red pants next spring, I'll try a long-rise pair, and just pay the price to get them instead of waiting for sales. I'm quickly learning odd sizes don't usually make it to the sale.


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