# Going too far.... Allergies & school lunches



## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

I was just reading an article that mentioned the suspension of a 2 year old from pre-school because she had stuck a cheese sandwich in her pocket and taken it to school against the "no outside food" Policy. While I wish I could say that I was shocked, it was really no surprise that this school is located in the U.S. As a matter of fact, I haven't heard of such issues coming from elsewhere (Although the U.K. tends to be just as melodramatic on many such issues). Here in Switzerland, I am required to actually give my children a snack to carry with them. I have heard nothing that forbids peanuts or other foods that might cause an allergic reaction. Again, it seems as if this is primarily a U.S. phenomenon and a recent one at that. I certainly don't remember any of my classmates having to run to the hospital & the majority of us had a peanut butter & jelly sandwich for lunch. While I hate to make light of potential problems, it seems to me that suspending a 2 year old is going way, way too far. It also seems a rather typical American thing to do. 9'999 students and their parents need to change their routines for the 1 kid that might suffer an allergy & any deviation from the schools demands will be met with the standard "zero tolerance" policy (no pointing your fingers like a gun, no kissing little Suzy on the playground, no cheese sandwiches, etc). What's next? Should the grocery stores be forced to stop selling peanut products because a few people can't be within 1000 feet of a peanut? How far are we responsible as a society for such things? Should we consider endangerment charges against someone that has a peanut plant in their backyard?


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## Larry Poppins (Jan 14, 2014)

I can't speak to the particulars here, but my son has a level VI dairy allergy. Cheese could kill him. He has been routinely threatened with cheese by other students and was for a time in kindergarten very scared to go to school and would not eat anything until it was over. A no outside food policy wouldn't help though. Every federally approved school lunch includes milk. They have a no peanut table, but nothing for dairy. What's he supposed to do, eat in the nurse's office?


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

This is related, I reckon you will agree;

https://time.com/20197/crazed-pet-cat-holds-family-hostage-and-forces-them-to-call-911-for-rescue/


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

Larry Poppins said:


> I can't speak to the particulars here, but my son has a level VI dairy allergy. Cheese could kill him. He has been routinely threatened with cheese by other students and was for a time in kindergarten very scared to go to school and would not eat anything until it was over. A no outside food policy wouldn't help though. Every federally approved school lunch includes milk. They have a no peanut table, but nothing for dairy. What's he supposed to do, eat in the nurse's office?


Ok. Again, I hate to make light of situations but what you mention seems a bit odd. Threatened with cheese? At a pre-school and kindergarten level? These kids are what? 3-6 years old? Where are the teachers? I have 2 young daughters myself and it doesn't seem that this problem exists here. We have no rules as to what the children are allowed to bring due to allergies & we certainly don't have tables that are "no peanut" or "no dairy". I would guess there are people here that are allergic to foods but I certainly don't hear about it the way I do in the states. In fact, I know of one girl that is lactose intolerant but it doesn't come to the whole of society changing because of her, it's up to her and her family to avoid it (or have the medication available). How far can we push the envelope on this one? No dairy, no gluten, no nuts, oops my kid is allergic to fresh fruit and little timmy breaks out in hives everytime he sees fresh vegetables. Of course bobby only eats kosher while suzie needs halal. Forget the Capri Sun pouches, only 100% juice is allowed. I suppose everyone should have their special needs tables but then we start worrying about segregation. Again, all this seems to have come with the new millenium. What happened before the year 2000? I don't remember any of my schoolmates being rushed to the hospital. Again, how far is too far? It reminds me of the Jr. High kid that sued his school because they didn't allow a homosexual based club. In Jr. High? Heck, back in the day we weren't allowed to wear shorts to Jr. high as they were to sexually suggestive.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

Hitch said:


> This is related, I reckon you will agree;
> 
> https://time.com/20197/crazed-pet-cat-holds-family-hostage-and-forces-them-to-call-911-for-rescue/


Ha. There was a time that such an article would be found in the The National Enquirer versus Time. As Dylan sang "The times, they are a changin'"


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Larry Poppins said:


> I can't speak to the particulars here, but my son has a level VI dairy allergy. Cheese could kill him. He has been routinely threatened with cheese by other students and was for a time in kindergarten very scared to go to school and would not eat anything until it was over. A no outside food policy wouldn't help though. Every federally approved school lunch includes milk. They have a no peanut table, but nothing for dairy. What's he supposed to do, eat in the nurse's office?


Or eat at home? Sounds like public school is the problem.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Hitch said:


> This is related, I reckon you will agree;
> 
> https://time.com/20197/crazed-pet-cat-holds-family-hostage-and-forces-them-to-call-911-for-rescue/


LOL. There is a more permanent and perhaps more appropriate solution to that 'bad cat' problem and it shouldn't require involvement of the animal control folks. Back in the day, we handled things like that a bit more directly!


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. There is a more permanent and perhaps more appropriate solution to that 'bad cat' problem and it shouldn't require involvement of the animal control folks. Back in the day, we handled things like that a bit more directly!


Indeed but that doesn't fit into the modern American idea that everyone is a victim and needs recognition/compensation for their problems(or at least paid therapy). Besides, you'd probably go to jail longer for putting a bullet into a cat versus a human.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Alas, you may be right.
It is but one additional aggravation of living in deteriorating democracy, which seems to be all too rapidly becoming just another "nanny state!" (heavy sigh)


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Al:eek2:as, you may be right.
> It is but one additional aggravation of living in deteriorating democracy, which seems to be all too rapidly becoming just another "nanny state!" (heavy sigh)


As long you keep the colas to 16oz & below, we'll try to avoid signing a warrant for your arrest (& possible execution).


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Alas, you may be right.
> It is but one additional aggravation of living in deteriorating democracy, which seems to be all too rapidly becoming just another "nanny state!" (heavy sigh)


even though you've taken a slightly veiled swipe at Liberals, let me just point out that I see regulations as a necessary evil (in some cases), especially when abuse is taking place. For example, I look to the financial and environmental sectors as needing regulations. The financial sector, well, because our country wouldn't be in the mess that it's in if Wall Street wasn't allowed to play Russian Roullette with the economy, and the environmental sector to keep known offendors from polluting our country with their toxic filth. I don't know about you but I prefer living in a country with clean air and water. Don't even get me started on hunting. If we didn't have hunting or fishing regulations there'd be no game left for anyone


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

gaseousclay said:


> even though you've taken a slightly veiled swipe at Liberals, let me just point out that I see regulations as a necessary evil (in some cases), especially when abuse is taking place. For example, I look to the financial and environmental sectors as needing regulations. The financial sector, well, because our country wouldn't be in the mess that it's in if Wall Street wasn't allowed to play Russian Roullette with the economy, and the environmental sector to keep known offendors from polluting our country with their toxic filth. I don't know about you but I prefer living in a country with clean air and water. Don't even get me started on hunting. If we didn't have hunting or fishing regulations there'd be no game left for anyone


Talk about making economic and finacial ruin out of a cheese sandwhich!!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

justonemore said:


> Ok. Again, I hate to make light of situations but what you mention seems a bit odd. Threatened with cheese? At a pre-school and kindergarten level? These kids are what? 3-6 years old? Where are the teachers? I have 2 young daughters myself and it doesn't seem that this problem exists here. We have no rules as to what the children are allowed to bring due to allergies & we certainly don't have tables that are "no peanut" or "no dairy". I would guess there are people here that are allergic to foods but I certainly don't hear about it the way I do in the states. In fact, I know of one girl that is lactose intolerant but it doesn't come to the whole of society changing because of her, it's up to her and her family to avoid it (or have the medication available). How far can we push the envelope on this one? No dairy, no gluten, no nuts, oops my kid is allergic to fresh fruit and little timmy breaks out in hives everytime he sees fresh vegetables. Of course bobby only eats kosher while suzie needs halal. Forget the Capri Sun pouches, only 100% juice is allowed. I suppose everyone should have their special needs tables but then we start worrying about segregation. Again, all this seems to have come with the new millenium. What happened before the year 2000? I don't remember any of my schoolmates being rushed to the hospital. Again, how far is too far? It reminds me of the Jr. High kid that sued his school because they didn't allow a homosexual based club. In Jr. High? Heck, back in the day we weren't allowed to wear shorts to Jr. high as they were to sexually suggestive.


For someone that once poked fun at flyover Iowa Hicks, you sure sound like one of us in this rant!!

Welcome, friend!!


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> For someone that once poked fun at flyover Iowa Hicks, you sure sound like one of us in this rant!!
> 
> Welcome, friend!!


Ah my friend. You seem to have missed that while I support neither the democrats or the republicans, I do happen to think that there are a few viewpoints from all sides that are somewhat valid. I find useful information from all sides and therefore hold viewpoints from republicans, democrats, libertarians, socialists, communists, etc. etc. etc. While I admit to leaning toward the republicans on this issue, please don't get too used to it. LOL.:crazy:


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Some of the common ground I've found with my own Liberal Wienie Friends typically revolves around eduacation and nutrition.

If only they could appreciate the evil of a controlling central authority in other areas of government!!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Why would anyone be suspended for bringing a cheese sandwich?


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

Howard said:


> Why would anyone be suspended for bringing a cheese sandwich?


Zero tolerance policies are the norm nowadays Howard. If a 2 year old carrying a cheese sandwich in her Pocket is allowed to get away with such an injustice, then the 3 year olds might try to get away with it as well. I can only hope that next time around they'll charge her with "a salt and buttering".


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

gaseousclay said:


> even though you've taken a slightly veiled swipe at Liberals, let me just point out that I see regulations as a necessary evil (in some cases), especially when abuse is taking place. For example, I look to the financial and environmental sectors as needing regulations. The financial sector, well, because our country wouldn't be in the mess that it's in if Wall Street wasn't allowed to play Russian Roullette with the economy, and the environmental sector to keep known offendors from polluting our country with their toxic filth. I don't know about you but I prefer living in a country with clean air and water. Don't even get me started on hunting. If we didn't have hunting or fishing regulations there'd be no game left for anyone


I've heard arguments like this as long as I can remember but I never come across a single conservative who could by any stretch be considered an anarchist, and you havnt either.


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## Larry Poppins (Jan 14, 2014)

justonemore said:


> Ok. Again, I hate to make light of situations but what you mention seems a bit odd. Threatened with cheese? At a pre-school and kindergarten level? These kids are what? 3-6 years old? Where are the teachers?


They were five. The kid in question would get his hands covered with cheese powder from chips or else a slice of cheese and chase my son around. The teachers were on lunch break and the yard duty had 10 classes of kids to watch. The little tyke went on to become a notorious bully and these days is often threatened with peanut butter (he's allergic too.) He and my son are both in the same class this year and there are in fact so many different allergies in the class that the teacher has made it a policy that parties are fruit and juice only. Happily there hasn't been any wailing and moaning about children denied a proper childhood because they cant eat cupcakes in class at St. Smithen's Day. Hardly a reason to shut down public education, but allergies are becoming more common and more severe. Even private schools with strict dress codes are being forced to adopt policies. Anaphylaxis is scary. Suspended for a cheese sandwich does sound rather stupid, almost as stupid as the private church preschool teacher who fed my son a cupcake with butter frosting against our written instructions. Ambulance-->hospital-->Epinepherine-->Albuterol-->etc


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

Larry Poppins said:


> They were five. The kid in question would get his hands covered with cheese powder from chips or else a slice of cheese and chase my son around. The teachers were on lunch break and the yard duty had 10 classes of kids to watch. The little tyke went on to become a notorious bully and these days is often threatened with peanut butter (he's allergic too.) He and my son are both in the same class this year and there are in fact so many different allergies in the class that the teacher has made it a policy that parties are fruit and juice only. Happily there hasn't been any wailing and moaning about children denied a proper childhood because they cant eat cupcakes in class at St. Smithen's Day. Hardly a reason to shut down public education, but allergies are becoming more common and more severe. Even private schools with strict dress codes are being forced to adopt policies. Anaphylaxis is scary. Suspended for a cheese sandwich does sound rather stupid, almost as stupid as the private church preschool teacher who fed my son a cupcake with butter frosting against our written instructions. Ambulance-->hospital-->Epinepherine-->Albuterol-->etc


As a parent I can understand such concerns. My main point is that I just don't see these type of issues coming from anywhere but the U.S. and I wonder why.


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## Larry Poppins (Jan 14, 2014)

Justonemore
I've actually heard that Hazlenut and dairy allergies are on the rise in Europe and schools are trying to figure out how to adapt. The zero tolerance approach does seem to be a uniquely American solution. I think its grounded in the mistrust of educators and the fear that they will be to lenient on some kid who needs to be taught a lesson. These policies started out for weapons and drugs but have slowly worked their way down to the kindergarten lunchbox. The school lunches I ate in Europe are certainly a cut above anything I've ever seen on a lunch tray here. Students dldn't have to have a signed note from a doctor in order NOT to take a carton of milk as is the case here. Again there is the mistrust of students to pick their own food from a cafeteria and the refusal to see school cafeteria workers as anything more than fast food workers who can pass a background check. Add to that the widespread resentment of children who rely on "the state" to feed them lunch in the first place, and local school boards cowering before the threat of imagined lawsuits as they write policies and you are bound to get some spectacularly bad outcomes. I have never lived in Europe unless you count a summer semester or two, so I can't speak from much experience, but I can't imagine a ban on outside food ever being considered in a public school anywhere outside of the states. I wonder what would happen if American schools took their responsibility to see that children are fed well as seriously as the responsibility to see that they are given standardized tests.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

The pre-school my daughters attend has the kitchen that's used for several of the areas pre-schools. It's a very Professional team. All trained in culinary arts with further training in cooking for children. They create meals according to "la fourchette verte" (the green fork) which is a program providing standards for balanced and nutritional meals. They don't seem to take many précautions with cheese and nuts. I can tell you that they serve both at every event (an event without cheese, nuts, fruits, meats, and wine in Switzerland, is not an event). I know I've seen cheese on the breakfast trolley (cheese is a recurring theme in Switzerland). Perhaps there aren't any kids that are allergic and they know this? Perhaps they just leave it to kids to avoid it (the kids serve themselves & can take what they want)? I think I might see what the chef there has to say on this topic. For the younger kids (1-4), the nursery lists all forbidden food on a big whiteboard but from what I can remember they're mostly (all) for religious reasons

The primary schools here require parents to provide a snack for the recess period. They handed out a pamphlet showing 14 ideas as to what could be considered appropriate. 4 of them had cheese, 1 was a trail mix containing nuts, and another featured a whole nut bread. Needless to say...There's no ban of cheese, dairy, or nut products in our primary schools.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

justonemore said:


> Zero tolerance policies are the norm nowadays Howard. If a 2 year old carrying a cheese sandwich in her Pocket is allowed to get away with such an injustice, then the 3 year olds might try to get away with it as well. I can only hope that next time around they'll charge her with "a salt and buttering".


That's really outrageous.


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