# Black Tie, Non-Black Shoes?



## DPH (Mar 1, 2013)

Three part question:

1. Thoughts on black tie with not-black shoes?
2. Does your opinion change if the black tie is knit?
3. If your answer to either of the above is that you think it works, what color shoes do you think it works with?

Generally agree that black with black is a safe rule (although there are some exceptions), but I have seen the black _knit_ tie worn quite effectively with non-black shoes. For an example, check out this photo of Beppe Modense, founder of Milan fashion week, from the Sartorialist archive. (3 or 4 photos down). https://wax-wane.com/2012/11/26/dark-knit-ties-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-hating-and-love-black/


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Black ties with brown shoes is found in the Anglo American tradition long before Mr. Modense. This from AA dates to the 30's 

Of course, the man with the brown shoes is not looking to impress anyone, he is a man others try to impress. 

I believe I have another AA illustration one of a lawyer making an argument wearing a black tie , (I don't recall the shoes or even if the shoes are in the picture), which I will look for when I get home.



EDIT:

Here is the lawyer arguing his case wearing a black tie, with a stick pin no less. (One of the last of the double breasted suit with vest). He has anticipated our friend Cuff's predilection for solid tie and patterned shirt. His shoes are black. From this I conclude that black tie+brown shoes when you don't need to make a solid impression, but black shoes if you do.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Wouldn't bug me. Even brown shoes tend to have black sole edges and laces, right?


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

I'm not wild over it but it would have to be a darker brown shoe. I think most of the examples in your link have gray or more neutral color that makes it less jutting. It also is sort of misleading since some of them you only see the knot since it's over a sweater or similar so it doesn't stand out as much. It's possible to do, I just don't really care for it but I don't really care for solid black ties in general.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

We're talking about a black necktie, not black tie, right? Sure, I'd wear a black tie with brown shoes if it goes with the outfit overall. People think there are a lot more _rules_ about colour coordination than there actually are. The rules are matching belts and shoes, and not mismatching the same colour (i.e. navy blazer and navy trousers that aren't part of a suit).


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Matt S said:


> We're talking about a black necktie, not black tie, right? Sure, I'd wear a black tie with brown shoes if it goes with the outfit overall. People think there are a lot more _rules_ about colour coordination than there actually are. The rules are matching belts and shoes, and *not mismatching the same colour (i.e. navy blazer and navy trousers that aren't part of a suit*).


Oddly enough, I extend this to ties -- navy suits or jackets with solid navy ties set my teeth on edge.


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## DPH (Mar 1, 2013)

arkirshner said:


> Black ties with brown shoes is found in the Anglo American tradition long before Mr. Modense. This from AA dates to the 30's
> 
> Of course, the man with the brown shoes is not looking to impress anyone, he is a man others try to impress.
> 
> ...


Great photos - thank you.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Oddly enough, I extend this to ties -- navy suits or jackets with solid navy ties set my teeth on edge.


Probably because I'm a Bond fan I like navy ties with navy suits. But I make sure to match the navy as close as possible (I have 4 navy grenadine ties). And since the texture is so much different I don't have a problem.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Matt S said:


> Probably because I'm a Bond fan I like navy ties with navy suits. But I make sure to match the navy as close as possible (I have 4 navy grenadine ties). And since the texture is so much different I don't have a problem.


Double navy, you, Bond , and Cary Grant. Good company.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Wouldn't bug me. Even brown shoes tend to have black sole edges and laces, right?


Not in my experience, no.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

A black knit tie goes with almost anything.


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## MTM_Master? (Jul 8, 2009)

If one was inclined not to wear black shoes with a black suit, (and they asked me) I would have to recommend a burgundy shoe over a brown shoe. I suppose a very dark brown shoe _could_ work, but for some reason wearing any non-black shoe with a black suit does not work for me. For what it's worth, I would not do it. But then again I don't tend to experiment with my footwear much...


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## AJW (Nov 29, 2012)

MTM_Master? said:


> If one was inclined not to wear black shoes with a black suit, (and they asked me) I would have to recommend a burgundy shoe over a brown shoe. I suppose a very dark brown shoe _could_ work, but for some reason wearing any non-black shoe with a black suit does not work for me. For what it's worth, I would not do it. But then again I don't tend to experiment with my footwear much...


He's asking about a black necktie. I don't believe he said anything about jacket or suit color.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Black colored tie, rather than blacktie: sure, why not?

If your shoes were supposed to match your tie, people would be walking around in red and blue shoes a lot of the time. Or brown ties, which you don't see with much regularity. You don't see black ties very much either, when you get down to it.

Picture, if you will, a simple black tie, with a gray suit and brown shoes. I'm not seeing anything wrong with that picture.


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## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

My initial take on this thread was, is it ok to wear a color of shoe other than black for when dressed Black Tie (DJ).
I'm pleased to see that it isn't.
If there is a rule for "Tie must match your shoes", I'm failing at every occurrence other than "Black Tie" or a funeral.


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## MTM_Master? (Jul 8, 2009)

AJW said:


> He's asking about a black necktie. I don't believe he said anything about jacket or suit color.


Whoops! I read this post wrong...shame on me.


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## DPH (Mar 1, 2013)

MTM_Master? said:


> Whoops! I read this post wrong...shame on me.


Sorry for the confusion - yes, intended black-colored tie, not formal "black tie".


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Jovan said:


> Not in my experience, no.


Yeah, you're right. I guess I was thinking only in terms of burgundy, which does usually have black edges.

Matt S., I guess it works when both are exactly right -- but they so often aren't.


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## bremersm (Feb 1, 2013)

On a few occasions I have warn my black knit tie with a gingham shirt. I have paired it with brown desert boots.


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