# what to look for in old wine...



## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi gentlemen. I had a funny incident today. I'll spare the details, but basically I had a guy give me 5 bottles of wine that he was going to throw out. Not for any reason, but I think he may have been clearing a relatives home and was just getting rid of some things. Without feeling like a hobo, I took all his wine at the town transfer station (we used to call it the dump :icon_smile. 

I love wine, but hardly an expert. Novice, really. They were all reds (cabernets and sirahs), all from the mid 1990's (94-96). 

So here are my questions. Are there things to look for, before opening, that would indicate if its still in good shape? Anything I can see visually on the cork? Or, is the best way to just crack it open and enjoy? I guess if its bad, I will know right away, correct? I just hate to taste something rotten and nasty. 

I am also curious if these are anything special or were just table wine, now old. I looked them up, but could not find much. If anyone is interested, I will list the varieties and would appreciate comments. 

Tell you what. Let me go grab the bottles, and I will list them shortly as a continuation of this thread. Any help on what to do is much appreciated. 

Tom


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

^ So here is what I got...

Herzog Special Reserve Cabernet 1996

Ravenswood Petite Sirah 1996

St Joseph 'Offerus' 1997 - France, Rhone

Jessandra Vittoria 1994 Santa Vittoria - 70% cab, 30% sangiovese

Chateau Souverain, Cab, 1995, Alexander Valley

So what might I expect from these? Thanks again...
Tom D


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*bad news*

so sorry. those must be quite rotten by now. mail them to me and i will happily refund the postage!!!

alternately, cook yourself a rare beef wellington, some candied parsnips roasted initially in the beef drippings, perhaps a roquefort salad, stilton to follow along with a nice port, invite some good friends over and cackle with glee. i'm no expert but it sounds as if you are on to a good thing.

but to be on the safe side, mail them to me for a full report.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Unless the corks are visibly deteriorating, there's no way to tell for certain whether the wine has gone south without opening each and at least smelling them. If they smell like vinegar or like rotten wood, they're done.

That having been said, the vast majority of wine is not intended to be shelved for more than a year or two past their release. Thus, it is unlikely these fall into the category of wines that can be aged, but you never know.

Hopefully someone on here is familiar with these labels and vintages. You might also just try emailing one of the major wine websites or reviewers for advice, or asking the sommellier at a nice local restaurant.


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## Gromson (Oct 11, 2009)

It really depends on how they were stored. You could take a lovely Latour and stick it in a closet for a while and ruin it. You could likewise take a not so great wine and store it well and have it be... still not so great but not much worse. 

Only great wines aged properly get any better.


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

turban1 said:


> so sorry. those must be quite rotten by now. mail them to me and i will happily refund the postage!!!
> 
> alternately, cook yourself a rare beef wellington, some candied parsnips roasted initially in the beef drippings, perhaps a roquefort salad, stilton to follow along with a nice port, invite some good friends over and cackle with glee. i'm no expert but it sounds as if you are on to a good thing.
> 
> but to be on the safe side, mail them to me for a full report.


Thanks for the offer! Very generous of you.
Tom


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

sko said:


> Unless the corks are visibly deteriorating, there's no way to tell for certain whether the wine has gone south without opening each and at least smelling them. If they smell like vinegar or like rotten wood, they're done.
> 
> That having been said, the vast majority of wine is not intended to be shelved for more than a year or two past their release. Thus, it is unlikely these fall into the category of wines that can be aged, but you never know.
> 
> Hopefully someone on here is familiar with these labels and vintages. You might also just try emailing one of the major wine websites or reviewers for advice, or asking the sommellier at a nice local restaurant.


Good advise. I suspected also that most wines are not intended to be further aged. I think I may also ask at my local wine store. Thanks for the tips.

TD


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## SeptemberSun (Aug 19, 2009)

A lot of Cabs age extremely well but it all depends on the tannins present when bottled. 7 to 15 years is a reasonable number of years and Opus 1 often reaches its peak after 20 years. The only real risk is that the wines could be corked, which means that bacteria has gotten into the cork and infected the wine. You'll know right away as the wine will taste literally like cardboard.

Red wines don't necessarily get better with age, some do, some don't depending upon the Tannins present when bottled (based on vintage year). It's the modification of these tannins with time and age that plays a crucial role in the ripening of the fruit and the opening up of new flavours with time. Most people drink most wines way too young

Here's what I know/think

*St Joseph 'Offerus' 1997* - France, Rhone - '97 was an excellent vintage in northern Rhone. Drink or Hold to *2017*. (I would hold)

*Ravenswood Petite Sirah 1996* - '96 was a good vintage in Napa/Sonoma. People are now drinking Petite Sirahs from the 80s. Ravenswood is a great producer so you can expect the fruit to be top notch. Drink or Hold to 2011 (I would hold)

*Herzog Special Reserve Cabernet 1996* - '96 was a good vintage in Napa/Sonoma. I'm pretty sure that Baron Herzog is a Kosher wine, which is very cool! If it is Kosher it will be unfiltered so you will need to decant it before drinking since there will be sediment that you need to let sit. Drink or hold to 2011 (I would drink now).

*Chateau Souverain, Cab, 1995, Alexander Valley* - '95 was an exceptional vintage in Napa/Sonoma. Drink or hold to 2012 (I would hold).

*Jessandra Vittoria 1994 Santa Vittoria* - '94 was a good vintage in Napa/Sonoma. I would drink this now.


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

^ Excellent information. Very informative. I spoke with someone else yesterday who gave me similar information, that these could be outstanding wines now or to hold. Curiosity will get the best of me, so something will get opened this Thanskgiving. I may go with your suggestion of the drink & hold recommendations. Although, "holding" good wine has never been my strength :icon_smile:.

Tom


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

SeptemberSun gave you sound advice. There are few ways to tell whether an unopened bottle has turned. One of the few indicators is to look at the shoulder--with the bottle sitting upright, where does the level of liquid hit the bottle.


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

smujd said:


> SeptemberSun gave you sound advice. There are few ways to tell whether an unopened bottle has turned. One of the few indicators is to look at the shoulder--with the bottle sitting upright, where does the level of liquid hit the bottle.


Meaning, if its turned, it may appear below where it should normally hit, correct?


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## bluesman (Aug 17, 2009)

*Never disgard wine with a good fill and a sound cork.*

Open it and try it. If it's vinegar, chuck it. If it's good or better, drink it. If it's not vinegar and the first taste and sniff are underwhelming but not foul, sip small pours over an hour or more and you'll often be pleasantly surprised at how good it may become when opened for a while. Decant half of the bottle and see what effect that has (even on over-the-hill whites).

Dottie and John (WSJ wine columnists for years) always warned not to jump to conclusions on first sniff or sip. We've found them to be entirely correct. I've learned a lot even from wines that were over the hill, e.g. a '61 Gaja barbaresco given to us by a friend's father this year - the only thing left in the bottle was those hints of stuff that reviewers are so fond of, but it was fun to experience a bottle of Angelo's stuff.


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## fat paul (Aug 26, 2008)

There is nothing as wonderfull and mysterious as a bottle of wine. Open a bottle, poor a glass, swirl, smell and taste. If there is something wrong with it (usualy not) try another bottle. We tend to over think wine. Its all about how a wine relates to your tastes. Learning to trust your your own opinion is the biggest step in wine enjoyment.
cheers, fat paul


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

The best tip I ever learned about "old wines" is that "corked wine" smells like wet sweat socks. It's also a smell that doesn't go away after a few minutes in a glass. If you smell this, pitch the wine down the drain.

Certainly many wine connoisseurs may suggest you hold these wines, but since NONE of these were really built for storing 20 years and then selling at auction, drink up!

Salut!


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