# Traditional Stroller Tuxedo



## andrewcorreia (Jan 21, 2009)

I am a Funeral Director who would like to retire my cutaway penguin tails and just go with a stroller tuxedo instead. My cutaways are so old, I don't know where to purchase or have made a high quality stroller tuxedo. Any suggestions? Oh, and vests with buckles in the back just aren't an option, lol.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Not sure what you mean. A tuxedo is the US term for what the rest of the world calls a dinner jacket, the black garment with satin or grosgrain lapels, worn as semi formal evening wear. A stroller is a black jacket, worn as semi formal day wear. While it is either single breasted or double breasted, its lapels are made from the same fabric as the rest of the jacket.

Please elaborate on what you are looking for.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

It sounds like the OP wants to source a stroller to replace his morning coat. 

As one who hasn't yet delved into morning wear, I can't offer any suggestions, but a place to source a proper stroller sounds like what he wants.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

A stroller is simply a tuxedo jacket, either one button single breasted peak lapel, or double breasted peak lapel, but without satin or grosgrain facing on the lapels or elsewere. Any made to measure program can make one. As the OP is from Rhode Island, I recomend Brooks Bros. because when his jacket is finished he can try it on in the store and have any further alterations taken care of right there. I do not know which location would have the best personel to take his measurements and place his order, certainly not one in a mall. Perhaps a member from the area can make a suggestion.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I wasn't aware that a stroller demanded a tuxedo jacket. All the sources I have seen state that it is simply a black lounge jacket worn over grey trousers and vest. The vest and trousers are most formally striped or checked though plain grey is supposed to be acceptable. For occasions other than funerals, the vest can be buff or, in this more colorful age, something seasonal. However, I am always ready for correction on these points. And shouldn't there be a homburg in the mix, as well?


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

There are several older threads on this. Here is a post I made in one of them, which helps give some stroller guidance:



AlanC said:


> Esquire, April 1938, from Anthony Jordan's original post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Those are the strollers I understood. I like them. However, where would one wear such, other than to church on Easter morning? I just don't circulate among those who might don them as normal daytime garb. For that matter, is there anyone anymore who does?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> I wasn't aware that a stroller demanded a tuxedo jacket. All the sources I have seen state that it is simply a black lounge jacket worn over grey trousers and vest.


As Mr. Kirshner suggests, absent its satin trim, that's pretty much all a tuxedo jacket is. A couple of other details sometimes found on tuxedo (evening) jackets are jetted pockets and no rear vent.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

AlanC said:


> There are several older threads on this. Here is a post I made in one of them, which helps give some stroller guidance:


As Alan C's illustrations show, semi-formal day wear is quite flexible as to details, especially when compared to semi-formal evening wear.

The single breasted notch lapel jacket, worn with a 6 button matching fabric vest was often worn by Winston Churchill as regular day wear, much as we today would wear a business suit.

https://www.wpclipart.com/famous/political/Churchill/Winston_Churchill_1.png.html

Although not seen often in the U.S., there is a painting of the Cloud Club in which a notch lapel stroller is worn by one of the members.

No cuffs were the norm and the cuffed pants pictured in the second illustration were presented as a "fashionable option."

In the following post OldSarge asks whether the stroller is worn as today as 'normal daytime garb'. I don't think anyone, other than a few eccentrics, wear it today as regular go to the office clothes . I have a double breasted one and it is appropriate for baptisms, weddings and the like. The reason I chose double breasted is that is doesn't stand out too much. On these occasions double breasted is less formal that the single breasted peak lapel version, and I suspect many people think it is just a black sport coat.

The stroller is an option to keep in mind for daytime weddings where something more formal than a suit is desired. while the pants, shoes and other accessories are the same, it does not require the groom or his attendants to find morning coats; (the groom of course retains the option of a morning coat for himself while not requiring it of his attendants). In fact, the attendants can just wear a black blazer, single or double breasted, with the proper pants and accessories, although the buttons on the blazer should be changed. As the illustrations above show, it can be an elegant look.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

arkirshner said:


> As Alan C's illustrations show, semi-formal day wear is quite flexible as to details, especially when compared to semi-formal evening wear.
> 
> The single breasted notch lapel jacket, worn with a 6 button matching fabric vest was often worn by Winston Churchill as regular day wear, much as we today would wear a business suit.
> 
> ...


Especially with the homburg and, for the _truly_ eccentric, gloves and walking stick.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Oldsarge said:


> Especially with the homburg and, for the _truly_ eccentric, gloves and walking stick.


Sarge,

If we are ever invited to the same event, I'll get the homburg, gloves, and stick if you will.

Regards,

Alan


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I'm sorry I don't have the accompanying text, but I believe this photo is from 1930's Apparel Arts and depicts some of the kit they recommended wearing with a stroller.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

arkirshner said:


> Sarge,
> 
> If we are ever invited to the same event, I'll get the homburg, gloves, and stick if you will.
> 
> ...


You're on. I've got the stick, I'll get the homburg sometime next year and gloves are easy. Unfortunately, I will have to forego the neatly trimmed mustache. My beard is so coarse my wife won't come within reach if I grow one.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Flanderian said:


> I'm sorry I don't have the accompanying text, but I believe this photo is from 1930's Apparel Arts and depicts some of the kit they recommended wearing with a stroller.
> 
> View attachment 3062


Most of that makes perfect sense though I can't make out what a couple of the smaller items are. Card case would be one, I suppose, but what are the others?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> Most of that makes perfect sense though I can't make out what a couple of the smaller items are. Card case would be one, I suppose, but what are the others?


I'm uncertain also. I see a notebook and pen, but that's about all I can see.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> I'm sorry I don't have the accompanying text, but I believe this photo is from 1930's Apparel Arts and depicts some of the kit they recommended wearing with a stroller.
> 
> View attachment 3062


Perhaps someone with the requisite technical know how can post the picture along with the following:

1 yellow shirt with white starched collar

2 Tan mocha gloves

3 DB 6x2 Black jacket

4 Shepherd checked trousers

5 grey hose with yellow clocks

6 black antelope cigarette case and silver license holder with automobile key

7 lavender pleated shirt with white starched collar

8 snake-wood cane with gold band

9 Malleca walking stick

10 a pair of shoes with grey cloth button tops

11 blue clocked hose

12 blue pleated shirt with white starched collar

13 lavender hose with clocks

14 shepherd check bow tie

15 midnight blue homburg hat

16 black antelope billfold and white pearl stick pin

17 blue address book

18 blue enameled pencil and a black cigarette holder

19 SB grey waistcoat

20 yellow buckskin gloves


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

1 yellow shirt with white starched collar

2 Tan mocha gloves

3 DB 6x2 Black jacket

4 Shepherd checked trousers

5 grey hose with yellow clocks

6 black antelope cigarette case and silver license holder with automobile key

7 lavender pleated shirt with white starched collar

8 snake-wood cane with gold band

9 Malleca walking stick

10 a pair of shoes with grey cloth button tops

11 blue clocked hose

12 blue pleated shirt with white starched collar

13 lavender hose with clocks

14 shepherd check bow tie

15 midnight blue homburg hat

16 black antelope billfold and white pearl stick pin

17 blue address book

18 blue enameled pencil and a black cigarette holder

19 SB grey waistcoat

20 yellow buckskin gloves

Damn, it worked! Anyway, according to the above there was a large number of choices for variations within the theme of "stroller" even in the 1930's. Today our options are likely even greater. Such fun!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

arkirshner said:


> Perhaps someone with the requisite technical know how can post the picture along with the following:
> 
> 1 yellow shirt with white starched collar
> 
> ...


Well done!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> 1 yellow shirt with white starched collar
> 
> 2 Tan mocha gloves
> 
> ...


Likewise!


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

You sure the shirt is pleated and not just striped?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^My understanding is striped shirts with white collar are correct. I would be surprised if a pleated shirt was.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Hmmm . . . they sure _look_ like pleats but I have a hard time pairing a pleated shirt with a four-in-hand tie. But then, I'm half slob. What do I know?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Orgetorix said:


> You sure the shirt is pleated and not just striped?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes

From Spring 1935 AA, reviewing recent observations:

"Nor was the trend toward formality restricted to the tailcoat. It was likewise extended to
semi-formal day wear. Here again, men returned to the apparel with which they had been
previously familiar, or, perhaps had not entirely discarded. The single-breasted oxford
grey or black jacket was worn with striped worsted or cheviot trousers. The single or
double-breasted waistcoat matched the jacket, was made of a light washable material.
Black shoes with a plain last, a demi-bosom or pleated bosom shirt of white, or a pale color
with white starched collar and cuff's, a derby hat, gloves, cane, and usually some type of
black and white neckwear completed the ensemble."

One should not forget that AA was not an anthropological study but a trade publication for retailers that reported what trend setters were wearing. Just like today, some trends caught on, some did not; of those that caught on, some had staying power, some did not.


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## andrewcorreia (Jan 21, 2009)

Gentlemen, I am thrilled to see so many responses. However, I still haven't received any suggestions for brands! I don't see any stroller jackets online from Brooks Brothers. Any ideas? English brands, perhaps?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

"Oh, and vests with buckles in the back just aren't an option, lol."

Why not?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

andrewcorreia said:


> Gentlemen, I am thrilled to see so many responses. However, I still haven't received any suggestions for brands! I don't see any stroller jackets online from Brooks Brothers. Any ideas? English brands, perhaps?


Any well-made black odd jacket, whether SB or DB, when worn over grey trousers and an appropriate vest _is_ a stroller jacket. That's the charm of the outfit. It's easy to put together and requires only what most of us probably already have.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Black or charcoal/oxford grey, from what I understand.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

To the best of my knowledge,and I seriously looked earlier this year, there are no branded strollers in the US. There simply is not a large enough market for single breasted peak lapel jackets without satin or grosgrain facing. It is not economically feasible for even a small manufacturer to cut less than 500 units at a time.

Either go double breasted using a black blazer or suit jacket as a base, or get a SB made to measure or made to order.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Jovan said:


> Black or charcoal/oxford grey, from what I understand.


Yes, very dark grey is fine and some say it is preferable.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

arkirshner said:


> To the best of my knowledge,and I seriously looked earlier this year, there are no branded strollers in the US. There simply is not a large enough market for single breasted peak lapel jackets without satin or grosgrain facing. It is not economically feasible for even a small manufacturer to cut less than 500 units at a time.
> 
> Either go double breasted using a black blazer or suit jacket as a base, or get a SB made to measure or made to order.


The Wizard has a number of SBPL suits in black and charcoal.....


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

*Srolling and trolling*

Are these the contents of Noel Coward's valise?



arkirshner said:


> Perhaps someone with the requisite technical know how can post the picture along with the following:
> 
> 1 yellow shirt with white starched collar
> 
> ...


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> The Wizard has a number of SBPL suits in black and charcoal.....


Perhaps, but they are 2 button made from guaranteed to wrinkle 150s.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

I was curious: Is the one-button feature a requirement for a 'proper' stroller?



arkirshner said:


> A stroller is simply a tuxedo jacket, either one button single breasted peak lapel, or double breasted peak lapel, but without satin or grosgrain facing on the lapels or elsewere. Any made to measure program can make one. As the OP is from Rhode Island, I recomend Brooks Bros. because when his jacket is finished he can try it on in the store and have any further alterations taken care of right there. I do not know which location would have the best personel to take his measurements and place his order, certainly not one in a mall. Perhaps a member from the area can make a suggestion.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Not according to the pictures Alan C posted. Both the gentleman in the upper right and the one in the lower left are sporting 2 button coats. It appears that the stroller is the most variable of semi-formal day wear. That's a nice feature.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

I suppose that if I ever pine for one of these in a peaked lapel, I would get one from Indy Magnoli who can churn these vintage pattern suits and jackets out pretty well. It could have any of the features described above.
I have a half-dozen or so things from him and the measurements are evidently accurate.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

filfoster said:


> I was curious: Is the one-button feature a requirement for a 'proper' stroller?


 The stroller descended from the one button morning coat,( same garment cut off at the height of the stroller's skirt), and the one button is somewhat more formal, but the two button is also proper.

Flusser in Dressing the Man has a picture of Anthony Eden in a one button model, which perhaps someone can scan and post.

One button was also the choice of PM Chamberlain, whose choice in clothing was certainly better than his choice of policy. Incidentally, to his right is Joseph Kennedy Sr. in his morning coat.

https://thelondonlounge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8288&hilit=anthony+eden


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

And the appropriate vest is always a solid?



Oldsarge said:


> Any well-made black odd jacket, whether SB or DB, when worn over grey trousers and an appropriate vest _is_ a stroller jacket. That's the charm of the outfit. It's easy to put together and requires only what most of us probably already have.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

arkirshner said:


> The stroller descended from the one button morning coat,( same garment cut off at the height of the stroller's skirt), and the one button is somewhat more formal, but the two button is also proper.
> 
> Flusser in Dressing the Man has a picture of Anthony Eden in a one button model, which perhaps someone can scan and post.
> 
> ...


Sorry don't have a scanner. And while this isn't a particularly good photo, what is he wearing under his topcoat?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

filfoster said:


> And the appropriate vest is always a solid?


Not always. Usually, I would agree but if you are going to wear checkered trousers and do not want a black or buff vest then a checkered one, in this instance, should be fine.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> Sorry don't have a scanner. And while this isn't a particularly good photo, what is he wearing under his topcoat?
> 
> View attachment 3070


I apologize, the photo I was thinking about is not in Flusser. I was at work relying on memory, always dangerous. Tonight I started going through my books unsuccessfully, but I did find it here on AAAC post 2

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...314-Is-a-Pocket-Watch-Correct-With-A-Stroller

Flandarian, The photo you found is from 1956 and the Soviet Foreign Minister is in the background. I believe Eden is wearing a morning coat.
Looking through Flusser tonight I did find on page 91 a drawing of Eden with stroller and buff vest. My copy of the book has a very small white dot close to where a second button would be but it also has another white dot on the left lapel where it is an obvious printing error.

It seems that when the British statesmen wore what they termed "black jacket and striped pants" as "work clothes" they wore a black vest. Presumably the buff vest variant was not a work day.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

arkirshner said:


> Flandarian, The photo you found is from 1956 and the Soviet Foreign Minister is in the background. I believe Eden is wearing a morning coat.


Thank you.


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## joezasada (May 29, 2011)

I was able to get a off the rack stroller; most formalwear sellers can get them if they don't have them (usually from the same maker as cutaway coats). Basically you want a SB black or dark gray jacket with peak lapels. You can wear it with the same waistcoat and striped trousers that you wear with regular morning attire. I often wear semi-formal morning attire as a guest to daytime weddings or other more formal occasions. Sometimes a 'stroller' can also be known as a 'director's coat'. The cool thing about morning attire is that with the two different coast (cutaway and stoller) you can use all the other accessories and have both formal and semi-formal kit.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

I suspect there is 'thread fatigue' with this subject but I will risk your wrath by asking for a clarification of a point, because I like this look and might get one for the very infrequent occasion to wear it.
What is the consensus on the buttons for a stroller jacket? I get the lapels of the same body fabric and the jetted pockets and no vent, but the posts above sway between the single button tuxedo style and the multi-button Churchill/Stresemann type coats. I think the multiple button style would give it a little more flexibility but am curious if you all think it makes any real difference.


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

filfoster;1266637What is the consensus on the buttons for a stroller jacket? I get the lapels of the same body fabric and the jetted pockets and no vent said:


> A stroller jacket is latitudinarian in regards to buttons: have one, have two, have six on a DB: all would be appropriate. Gustibus non disputandem (with the usual caveats about doing what is most flattering for your body type).


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

arkirshner said:


> Perhaps, but they are 2 button made from guaranteed to wrinkle 150s.


Can't believe I missed this, but it is still worthy of a reply.

I have four of these from 'guaranteed to wrinkle 150s' fabric, and they don't wrinkle any more or less than my 100 Oxxford or 120 H&S fabrics. When it comes down to it, the wrinkles actually fall out of those jackets faster than on my more expensive stuff. If I had to travel with two suits, it would be those.


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