# Meermin experience



## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

I have always favoured Northampton shoemakers but for some time have been quite interested in trying some Meermin shoes - mainly because they looked rather sleek and well made, while yet also being quite keenly priced (but somewhat less so now, with sterling so weak). A while ago, needing to replace some very old business shoes I ordered a pair of black boxcalf Oxfords, which are made on the Hiro last, but have been rather disappointed. While their website shows shoe sizes in "UK sizes", I suspect they are in fact using US sizes, as these shoes are definitely too small. They will have to go back.
Pleasingly, the soles were sewn with a concealed channel, but otherwise, I would say the shoes were "quite" good - on a par with Loakes, in most respects, though there were one or two slightly unfinished-looking details (the welt was very rough and ready looking by the arch of the foot). They had that less-expensive leather smell - in truth the leather appeared to be of reasonable quality, though I suspected they might have taken a while to wear in had I decided to keep them.
Smell is I think a reliable indicator of leather quality, but can be masked by that of other products used in shoemaking. My one pair of Edward Greens (bought a very long time ago at the factory) always had a sublime smell.


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## never behind (Jul 5, 2016)

Thanks for sharing. I've been pondering Meermin but I'm concerned about return shipping. Best I can tell it will run $65-$75 to ship via USPS. Can anybody verify?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Thanks for the report! Sorry they didn't fit, hopefully a replacement will give you what you seek. Lasts can make a great difference in fit, and while I've hardly done a detailed comparison, in general, I'd say many Northamptonshire lasts are bit more generous, and Meermin's a bit sleeker. My one concern in try Meermin has been that I find myself particularly well pleased in the fit of Northamtonshire footwear. I.e., not too broad a heel and an ample forefoot, which corresponds well with mine.

As you no doubt know, momsdoc is the Meermin fellow. I suspect he might be able to provide additional information if required.


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## Adelstensfostre (Sep 4, 2016)

Thank you for the illuminating report and commiserations on your experience.

I have been flirting with the thought of ordering a pair of Meermins off and on, mostly out of curiosity, but I've found it hard to get a good handle on the quality compared to Northampton-based makers (which I too very much favour). I now feel rather more enlightened and will shelve this particular curiosity for good.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Langham my friend, I wish you would have asked before your purchase

You are correct in the shoes being smaller than Northampton shoes. The length is sized in UK but I would say a smudge shorter in the Hiro last than comparably styled Northampton lasts. About a quarter size shorter, certainly not a half size, as I can wear a 9 Hiro, but take a US 10.

The BIG difference is width. Based on perusing Pediwear, and my own experience with C&J, E.G., and Barker, the default width for the vast majority of UK lasts is an F. Meermin is an E. They also have medium width heel, not generous, which is a great fit for me.

It clearly shows that by the E next to all the shoes. I wear a D/E in US shoes. All Northamptons I have are comfortably wide. My Meermin Hiros are snug out of the box as are the Eltons. After a few wears they are supremely comfortable. The Olfe, though an E is comfy from the start.

If you are an F width in UK, then the wider Ama last would suit you (I find it a bit loose), but they have nothing in that last at present. At times they have MTO Hiros in a wider last.

I have no experience with Loak. Based on AE, Meermin seem comparable in leather and construction, with less flaws. I would rate the leather similar to my Barkers, nice, but not up to Carmina or CS, and from there the other manufacturers just take off in quality.

You may be experiencing a higher price due to exchange rates than we do here in the US. I cannot find a full priced first quality shoe for $175 that compares. I would estimate from my Pediwear experience and from Flandarians descriptions, that Barkers and Sanders and Sanders are as close as I could get, but at a much greater cost.

Meermin are for medium feet, US D and UK E. Except for the more elongated Elton and Olfe lasts, if you are just making it at a size, i.e. UK9, go up a half size, for US 10 go to 9.5 also if you're between 10 and 10.5. The Olfe and Elton have a bit more toe length, so TTS. They also will not accommodate a high instep without gaping of the lacing. I cannot wear shoes with a low instep, but the Meermins fit well and close well out of the box, and completely after break in i Hiro and Olfe, Elton has a lower instep, and after breakin gap 1/8-1/4 inch.

IDK about smell, I've opened a ton shoe boxes, and enjoy the new shoe smell, but haven't gotten to the point of being able to differentiate quality based on their nose. It's the same with wine. I can detect poor quality, and differentiate between medium quality wines, but when you get to the astronomical ones, I know they smell good and taste good, but I cannot discern hundreds of dollars in difference by the smell alone. And as I have seen frequently at wine club dinners I have been invited to, most of the supposed aficionados get it more wrong than right.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Momsdoc, that is a wonderfully detailed summary, more useful to any potential purchaser of Meermins than my own account, which is necessarily more restricted in scope. On my feet, the Hiros were definitely tight, rather than snug (Alfred Sargent used to have an FX fitting which I found fitted me well).

As for wine, I'm not always very good at telling where it is from, but it can be fun trying!


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## winghus (Dec 18, 2014)

Momsdoc, you say the Olfe has a higher instep than Elton but Meermin themselves list Olfe as a low-instep shoe. I have an Elton and the instep is significantly higher than AE 65 last and fits my high instep feet great. I'm considering a couple of Olfe lasts shoes as I like the look of the last more than I do the Elton but was put off by the low-instep description. If Olfe is a higher instep than Elton, I will be fine. Could you confirm that?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

You will have to wait for October for me to confirm. My boots are put away. I can say for sure the Olfe has a wider toe box from their comfort. I may be thinking the instep is higher also because of their closure. I will pay more attention to the actual dimensions when I take them out. I can say for sure the Olfe fits more comfortably roomy than any other last, and Elton initially more constrictive than Hiro laterally. It may be that Elton has a higher instep than I imagine, but has a narrower toe box, giving a similar overall volume to the Hiro.
After a bit of wear and breakin, the Eltons never close as completely as the Hiro and Olfe, so I may be compensating for a narrower toe box than I imagine by not tightening the laces as much, and relying on their higher instep if that's what they have. I find the overall fit of Elton similar to AE5 D width which also requires a half dozen wears to achieve lateral comfort. On some AE5 I have noted vamp pressure in the beginning, which goes away. It would not with a loafer having a vamp strap.

I do not have a high instep, so can accommodate a wide variety of shoes, except penny loafers with a low instep and a constricting band across the vamp. Maybe with a lower instep shoe, I just tighten them less until they stretch out, which the penny loafers cannot due to the band.

With my easy to fit feet, I've always closed my laces to a comfort level over my instep. If there is any problem it's tightness over the 1st or 5th MTP joint. That invariablydissipates with wear. I've just thought it was a factor of shoe width, not considering the effect of instep on the process, as it wasn't important, as all would be fine with breakin. I have boot and shoe stretchers, and used to routinely stretch my new AE 5s until I realized that a half dozen wears does the trick just as well. Since every shoe/boot in the same last, from the same manufacturer will have its idiosyncrasies, I now reserve the stretchers for "hot spots" that don't go away. When they occur they are over the top of my 5th NTP or side of my 1st MTP joint. Luckily they are infrequent, and completely unpredictable, occurring on some of multiple shoes in the same last. I think just a couple of mm variation in tolerance is all it takes. 
I must qualify my comments, by stating, they are only pertinent to those brands which I have extensive experience with ~20 or more shoes/boots. 1,2, or 3 do not make for an adequate sample size. AE and Meermin must have those type of tolerance limits, as they are the only brands I have found this in. Carmina and perversely J&M,which are the other brands where I have over a dozen pairs, have NEVER caused this issue.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

As a coda to my slightly unhappy Meermin experience, the shoes were returned via Hermes - but never arrived. I received notification from Hermes that they had been received, but when nothing happened in the way of the expected refund, I contacted Meermin, who said they could not issue a refund as the shoes had not been received. I was slightly sceptical at first, but believe Meermin, my supposition being that the courier somehow "mislaid" the parcel of shoes - I was notified of a delivery, but no signature was obtained. Fortunately the parcel was insured.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has had a similar experience. A lot of internet shopping is done on the assumption that items that are unsuitable can be easily returned, but in reality it's always a bit of a pain in the backside.


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## nickaz99 (Oct 2, 2016)

Momsdoc,

I'm a newbie when it comes to fine footwear. I just started with an AE 5th Avenue 8.5E and will never wear department store shoes again. My budget is limited and I had been looking at Meermin. What size would you suggest in the Hiro last? I was thinking 8 given the narrow widths you are reporting. Thanks for your help.


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## JBierly (Jul 4, 2012)

nickaz99 said:


> Momsdoc,
> 
> I'm a newbie when it comes to fine footwear. I just started with an AE 5th Avenue 8.5E and will never wear department store shoes again. My budget is limited and I had been looking at Meermin. What size would you suggest in the Hiro last? I was thinking 8 given the narrow widths you are reporting. Thanks for your help.


Send them an email and tell them what you normally wear - that's what I did for the one pair I have - I think it was a bit of a narrow last and I only went a half size down from my normal US size.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

The current Meermin lasts are all UK E which is a US D. The instep is higher in Elton, regular in Hiro and low in Olfe. Rui has a regular instep but is the widest toe box an E+ in UK. Forget Ron if you're a US E the vamp is tight, and new Rey are narrow.

If you have a true E width in AE 5 last you will find Meermin tight. By going down only 1/2 size you might be able to compensate. But there is a significant variation in width among the same lasts. I am a D in the AE 5 last. Some are snug, some are perfect. All break in. Same with Meermin. Most Hiro and Olfe are Ok some are snug, but with wear they break in. Elton I go down 1 size and they always fit great. In boots I have Olfe 1 size down, despite them saying the instep is low and they are a bit narrower in the toe box, I find they fit fine.

If I were an E width in AE5, I would not think Meermin would be a comfortable fit in my usual 9 size. You could try going 1/2 size down but I will not feel comfortable telling you that will work. Return shipping is expensive, about $65. If you're willing to take the risk to be able to get into a good value nice shoe than go for it. Just be aware. 

Their leather is stiffer out of the box than AE, but don't let that discourage you. They soften up nicely with wear. The exception is the shrunken baby Llama which is much softer and gives a lot more. It comes in a brown bal boot, one of my favorites. It will accommodate much faster to a wider foot. You could also use a boot stretcher which I have done with the ones that were on the tighter side. It gets you a half width.


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## nickaz99 (Oct 2, 2016)

Thank you both for the replies. I have some thinking to do!


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## never behind (Jul 5, 2016)

I've been thinking about Meermin shoes, given the price. So I've been able to determine my size in Carmina's Inca last. So I emailed Meermin hoping to get sizing/last advice. They told me they didn't know anything about Carmina. Uh, what?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Let me see if I've got this straight.

Mallorca is a small island. The town of Inca is the main industrial center. I have driven across the town in five minutes, with waiting for red lights.

Matias Pujadas begins making shoes in Inca in 1866. In 1905 his son Mateo Pujadas opens a factory to produce GYW shoes. In 1961 his great grandson Jose Albaladejo Pujadas begins Yanko shoes. Yanko grows to produce over a million pair a year before falling on hard times and going bankrupt. 

Jose Albaladejo Pujadas and 4 sons leave Yanko to start Albaladejo shoes in Inca in1997. His other 2 sons Jose Albaladejo and Sandro Albaladejo leave Yanko to start Meermin Shoes in Inca.

Due to family "requests". Jose Albaladejo Pujadas renames his company Carmina after his wife and daughter.

Pepe Albaladejo, who is Jose Albaladejo's son and Jose Albaladejo Pujada's grandson takes over day to day operations of the business a few years ago, while his uncle Sandro Albaladejo takes over QC.

And they don't know anything about Carmina?:icon_scratch:


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## never behind (Jul 5, 2016)

momsdoc said:


> Let me see if I've got this straight.
> 
> Mallorca is a small island. The town of Inca is the main industrial center. I have driven across the town in five minutes, with waiting for red lights.
> 
> ...


I know! I figured I couldn't make this easier for them. Guess they don't want to sell me a pair of shoes.

"Thank you for your message.

Unfortunately we do not have information about the Carmina lasts, for your information our lasts in the Classic Collection are true to size, regular E UK (Medium) fitting."

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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

I am a US 9D. Looking at some Meermin boots, 101504. They are on the Rui last, and are sized 8.5 and the E. I see that the 8.5 is an American 9.5. This may be such a bargain if I win them on Ebay, so would the Meermin 8.5 Rui last fit me, and if so, spot on or a bit too big?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

memphislawyer said:


> I am a US 9D. Looking at some Meermin boots, 101504. They are on the Rui last, and are sized 8.5 and the E. I see that the 8.5 is an American 9.5. This may be such a bargain if I win them on Ebay, so would the Meermin 8.5 Rui last fit me, and if so, spot on or a bit too big?


I think soliciting opinions is a good idea. But be aware that momsdoc has multiple pairs of Meermin boots, so you may also want to PM him directly with your inquiry.


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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

For a Meermin captoe, if I am a 9.0US in the Park Avenue, D Width, could I go up to a 8.5 in the Meermins? Or stick with the 8.0 UK?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Save your money. Meermin in the Hiro last would be very expensive, since it wouldn’t fit an E width comfortably. I’m between a D and E and find the Hiro snug. Some are tight enough require a stretcher others just need some wears to break in. If I was a full E width they would never be comfortable.

Once in a while Meermin will have an MTO Hiro EE which is a US E width. Forget Elton also. I don’t know about the Rios last, Ron and New Rey are out, Rui and Ama might work as they are wider in the toe box.


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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

momsdoc said:


> Save your money. Meermin in the Hiro last would be very expensive, since it wouldn't fit an E width comfortably. I'm between a D and E and find the Hiro snug. Some are tight enough require a stretcher others just need some wears to break in. If I was a full E width they would never be comfortable.
> 
> Once in a while Meermin will have an MTO Hiro EE which is a US E width. Forget Elton also. I don't know about the Rios last, Ron and New Rey are out, Rui and Ama might work as they are wider in the toe box.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Hiro is a full size down from AE 5 last.


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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

momsdoc said:


> Hiro is a full size down from AE 5 last.


So 9D park avenue is 8e Hiro for captoe. Given my reading that Hiro could be narrower would 8.5 be too big? OR hit and miss


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

It would be long and probably give heel slip. I feel on my foot more length in Hiro than the 5.


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## JimbaTheHut (Mar 16, 2017)

I've had a shocking experience with Meermin. I ordered a MTO pair, double-sole, and there is a hole on the rib. Meermin refuse to accept responsibility, suggesting it's a normal thing in the hand-welted method. I did point out to them that the welt joint is normal, a hole is not. Never again. Low quality!


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

JimbaTheHut said:


> I've had a shocking experience with Meermin. I ordered a MTO pair, double-sole, and there is a hole on the rib. Meermin refuse to accept responsibility, suggesting it's a normal thing in the hand-welted method. I did point out to them that the welt joint is normal, a hole is not. Never again. Low quality!


Nice first post as Meermin is very popular on this forum and the quality for money ratio is undisputed.

How about a photo?

Cheers,

BSR


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

I’m at a loss. It would be best to show pics of what you are trying to describe, as the rib cannot be viewed on a shoe. Also a Meermin handwelted MTO is as rare as a pink unicorn. Are you sure it’s not GYW?


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

never behind said:


> Thanks for sharing. I've been pondering Meermin but I'm concerned about return shipping. Best I can tell it will run $65-$75 to ship via USPS. Can anybody verify? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Correct on the price. Cost me $82.00 to return my C&J Norwich 9 for a 9.5.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Return shipping is not a big issue anymore. SInce opening their NYC showroom, they claim to accept return shipping to NYC. That makes the USPS cost minimal. Shipping to the customer still comes from Mallorca with the usual shipping Charge.


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## Sam-I-Am (Mar 14, 2016)

never behind said:


> I've been thinking about Meermin shoes, given the price. So I've been able to determine my size in Carmina's Inca last. So I emailed Meermin hoping to get sizing/last advice. They told me they didn't know anything about Carmina. Uh, what?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you based in the U.S.? If so, it's likely you reached their U.S. customer service, based here in NYC. I wouldn't expect them to have detailed information on the sizing of shoes made by any competitor, including one based near their faraway HQ in Mallorca. In fact, I wouldn't expect ANY customer service rep or sales rep from ANY shoe company, except high-end or bespoke, to be able to compare their lasts with other shoemakers' lasts. If that's what you're looking for, I think you'll need to pay more for it.


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## Sam-I-Am (Mar 14, 2016)

momsdoc said:


> Return shipping is not a big issue anymore. SInce opening their NYC showroom, they claim to accept return shipping to NYC. That makes the USPS cost minimal. Shipping to the customer still comes from Mallorca with the usual shipping Charge.


Good news: Since 2019 they have been shipping AND accepting returns from/to their U.S. store in NYC. It's made returns very easy now.


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