# Loafer side gaps. What do they mean?



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I picked up some loafers recently. Length seems fine, but there are fairly large gaps on the sides of the shoes when i stand or walk. What are the gaps indicative of? Are the shoes too wide? Too narrow? Too.....?


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## Anthony Charton (May 7, 2012)

I've observed that before. Certainly wide to my eye.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

You can see the no show sock in there.


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

tocqueville said:


> You can see the no show sock in there.


To wide.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

do you have flat feet? I was just at an AE store looking for some oxfords (PA, 5th Ave, Strand) and when I tried them on in an 8E there were gaps to the side of my feet. The guy said not to worry about those because its more important that it fits at the ball of your feet and heel. He said that happens to me because i had wide feet. he said its more of an aesthetic thing... seeing as howd i'd be wearing pants with oxfords, i figured it wasn't a huge deal. loafers on the other hand, i could see how you could be more concerned with that.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

If I'm at a shoe store and the salesperson says to me about a gapping shoe, "Don't worry about it, it's fine," I'm going to another shoe store.

Side gaps are a sign of poor fitting shoes. It's as important to have shoes that fit well as it is to have shoes that are made well. I'm not an expert on biomechanics nor shoe construction, but your foot needs to be properly matched with the shoe's last, as well as with length and width sizing.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I wish it were not so difficult. 

That foot measures 7.5e, by the way. The shoe is 8d. I wonder what a 7.5e would be like.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

That's a gap? You should see some of my loafers. I have gaps at 7AM that are gone by 5PM. I figure my feet easily grow half a width by evening. I have shoes that started out 8.5E that feel better on my feet than EEEs after a few weeks of wearing.
It's not so difficult. It's a shoe. If it feels good, wear it--we may be talking about 1/8" in the maker's sizing, and stamping a shoe 8d doesn't mean it's exactly the same as other 8ds even if the last is the same. It will be close, but there's always some variability.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

cdavant said:


> That's a gap? You should see some of my loafers. I have gaps at 7AM that are gone by 5PM. I figure my feet easily grow half a width by evening. I have shoes that started out 8.5E that feel better on my feet than EEEs after a few weeks of wearing.
> It's not so difficult. It's a shoe. If it feels good, wear it--we may be talking about 1/8" in the maker's sizing, and stamping a shoe 8d doesn't mean it's exactly the same as other 8ds even if the last is the same. It will be close, but there's always some variability.


I'm inclined to agree with you, as I enjoy wearing the shoe. I'm mainly curious because a) I hope to buy more loafers in the future and am trying to understand how they should fit, and b) I definitely want to order more Rancourts and am trying to pin down my size, given that they offer every variation in the book. It's a burden, I suppose, having choices.

I'll keep wearing these shoes until I decide that they are floppy or annoyingly loose. So far so good.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Looks like dreaded topline bulge to me. 

Maybe you can send them back.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

at first i was inclined to believe in you but I went to both of the Allen Edmonds stores in San Francisco this wkend and both of the sales managers said the same thing...

I was trying PAs and Strands which are on the 5 last, built for long, narrow feet. i have a Boardroom (the PA made for JAB but in the 7 last - average foot) that fits perfectly... unfortunately they other oxfords are all on 5 lasts so theres not much i can do.

I've always thought (and worn fine) I was a 9D but I found out I'm an 8.5E and those tend to fit the best at AE. Also of note was that the Kenilworth, a 3 eyelet derby, I'm actually an 8E in.



MaxBuck said:


> If I'm at a shoe store and the salesperson says to me about a gapping shoe, "Don't worry about it, it's fine," I'm going to another shoe store.
> 
> Side gaps are a sign of poor fitting shoes. It's as important to have shoes that fit well as it is to have shoes that are made well. I'm not an expert on biomechanics nor shoe construction, but your foot needs to be properly matched with the shoe's last, as well as with length and width sizing.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

MaxBuck said:


> If I'm at a shoe store and the salesperson says to me about a gapping shoe, "Don't worry about it, it's fine," I'm going to another shoe store.
> 
> Side gaps are a sign of poor fitting shoes. It's as important to have shoes that fit well as it is to have shoes that are made well. I'm not an expert on biomechanics nor shoe construction, but your foot needs to be properly matched with the shoe's last, as well as with length and width sizing.


This _is _indeed the correct answer.

"Size" has less to do with proper fit, in most cases, than does the shape of the last. The manufacturer can call a shoe whatever size they please, but if the interior spaces (as defined by the last's shape) do not come close to approximating the form of your foot, the shoe _will not fit well!_

Your loafers appear to be wider in the ankle area and narrower in the toe, as it seems many shoes are.. which is puzzling to me. Do that many men have elephant ankles and ballerina toes? (I do not... My feet are just the opposite... narrow-ish in the ankle area, but broader in the toe.)
The infernal Allen Edmonds "5" last is a supreme culprit in this befuddling trend... and more confounding still is AE's use of that last on so many of their most "mainstream" shoes.
Perhaps feet of my proportions are in the minority... although I _do _find many well-fitting lasts amongst the offerings of the various Northampton manufacturers.
...No matter what, I think a long stay in a fiery place ought to be in store for the AE sales people who are telling you that's how shoes should fit! That's utter nonsense, and they ought to know it. AE is a much better company than that, and I sincerely hope that sort of misinformation is not condoned.

Unfortunately, finding lasts that fit well involves far more trial and error than simply finding one's "size." 
Since there is no way (that I know of, at least) to quantify last shape, the only way to determine what really fits well is to try the shoes on... which can be difficult if ordering shoes from a remote source, rather than buying them in person. I do not know whether Rancourt has similar shoes on different lasts, but in my opinion, I think your quest for a better fit might be far more productive if you pursue different lasts, rather than different sizes in the same last.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> This _is _indeed the correct answer.
> 
> "Size" has less to do with proper fit, in most cases, than does the shape of the last. The manufacturer can call a shoe whatever size they please, but if the interior spaces (as defined by the last's shape) do not come close to approximating the form of your foot, the shoe _will not fit well!_
> 
> ...


Good advice.

By the way, i fit pretty well in an AE 8 and 1 lasts, 8.5d; terribly in the 5 last.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> The infernal Allen Edmonds "5" last is a supreme culprit in this befuddling trend... and more confounding still is AE's use of that last on so many of their most "mainstream" shoes.


Well, I'm one of those who is glad AE makes the 5-last, as it fits my foot perfectly. But it sure isn't the right one for everyone.


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