# Striped ribbon watch straps: "Not Ivy!"



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Earlier today, over lunch with a few friends and colleagues, one old trad-fogey-Ivy League type declared that he and other Ivy League-leaning types from days of yore would (emphatically) not consider "those damned cheap nylon watch straps" to be acceptable within the Ivy Leauge (sartorial) curriculum. "They're fruity looking, and, besides that, cheap looking," he said. He added that it's "just plain wrong to wear a $1,000 Southwick MTM suit, a $70 OCBD, a pair of $400 shell cordovan tassel mocs, a $150 shell cordovan belt, an $80 silk repp tie...and then accessorize with a $5 watch strap."

This guy knows his stuff--especially circa '50s and '60s Ivy League style. So, what say all of you in response? I dare say he's correct, which inspires a second glance at a few good looking dark brown croc and shell cordovan straps I've seen recently.

I believe it was Coolidge24 who told us that his father thought striped watch straps to be silly. This adds fuel to the fire, and prompts a question: are these cheap watch straps a left-over from the era of "preppy," and did they infect (like a disease) the old school Ivy League style about which my friend spoke? I mean, his point is well-taken: to wear high quality goods and then accessorize with a piece of cheap nylon...well, there is something of a disconnect, admittedly.

Cheers,
Harris


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> He added that it's "just plain wrong to wear a $1,000 Southwick MTM suit, a $70 OCBD, a pair of $400 shell cordovan tassel mocs, a $150 shell cordovan belt, an $80 silk repp tie...and then accessorize with a $5 watch strap."
> 
> This guy knows his stuff--especially circa '50s and '60s Ivy League style. So, what say all of you in response? Cheers,
> Harris


Seems like there is more interest in what something costs as opposed to what something is. He may be correct, and simply not be stating his arguement is a good way. But then I have watches with ribbon and croc bands, so I can go either way.
Cheers


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

The older ones (20 and more years ago) appear to be made of silk ribbon, not nylon. Is it just plain wrong to wear an expensive suit with a fruity-looking, brightly colored silk tie?


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

There's no single correct answer on this. He's confident of his opinion but that doesn't mean he is correct.

If we follow and extend his logic then where will that leave us with respect to such accepted low-cost traddish accessory items as cheap timex watches? Or vintage Volvos? I thought one of the (background) elements of Trad was the appreciation of _value_ and thrift. And (at least as we articulate it here on this board) to some extent the independent-minded tendency to thumb one's nose at the canons of convention and wear whatever suits our fancy. I think that the fellow, while trad, may appear to be at least a bit of a snob, at least where watchbands are concerned. Note: a bit of snobbery in some areas (like those having to do with sartorial themes) seems to be part and parcel of Trad. I'm a snob in certain areas but less snobbish on those points where I don't think it matters. For example, I prefer BB shirts but will wear St. Johsns Bay khakis. Perhaps others can comment on areas where they are a stickler (or maybe snobbish) about certain things... Another example is that I only wear cotton or wool or other natural fibers, unless its swimwear, where nylon is acceptable. Oh, sometimes in the summertime I guess I have been known to wear rayon or silk...

Oh, one more thing. Where can we get 'em for $5?

Markus


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

I would suppose he is correct if you are solely looking at cost (which is not too trad). How does he feel about grosgrain belts? I like the simplistic look of the nylon straps and for the money I think they are a tremendous value, they wear forever. I wear them because I like them, they do not get smelly like leather straps and you can wash them if needed.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Pfui.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Also bah.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

A couple more thoughts. How trad is anyone who tells you all in the same breath the prices he paid for everything he's wearing? However, we might assume for the sake of argument that Harris embellished to help make his acquaintance's point.

I think it's likely a generational attitude. Many of those born before about 1950, my father among them, would consider a colorful striped watchband, whether silk or nylon, to be too casual to wear with a suit.


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## mgw (Jul 29, 2005)

Does this mean that inexpensive Timex watches are not favored as well?


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> and then accessorize with a $5 watch strap.


Where'd he find one for five bucks? I think I paid twice that for mine!


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## ROI (Aug 1, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by rojo_
> 
> I think it's likely a generational attitude. Many of those born before about 1950, my father among them, would consider a colorful striped watchband, whether silk or nylon, to be too casual to wear with a suit.


That's my reading of the fogey's objection to grosgrain ribbon watchbands. The pivotal question would be, Would he wear a ribbon band on the golf course or running Saturday morning errands? Another approach, Would he wear a sprocket-laden, multi-color, steel sport watch (i.e.: Rolex, Omega, Tag-Heuer, et al) with a suit? Answers to those questions might clarify his stand against ribbon bands.

"The whole thing is performance and prowess and feats of association. Why don't critics talk about those things - what a feat it was to turn that that way, and what a feat it was to remember that, to be reminded of that by this? Scoring. You've got to score." Robert Frost


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## guyfromboston (Jan 26, 2005)

The specifics of how people dressed in the 1950s is interesting because it's a useful guide for how I should dress - I like the look, and use most of it day to day. Do I view it as a written-in-stone sort of thing? No. Honestly, I can't imagine a lot of people wearing ribbon straps or belts back then. Just doesn't seem like something that would happen. Don't know why.


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## 3button Max (Feb 6, 2006)

I think Central Watchband or maybe it's watchband central in Grand Central Station NYC (on web) has them @5 for $25-

The better watchbands 25 years ago were a silk grosgrain not nylon but the real grosgrain etc can still be had from leatherman, O'Connell's etc. 
It would look kind of weird to put an expensive high end leather band on a drugstore timex - a cognitive dissonance of sorts- so the nylon makes some sense. For all of that, trad like anything else does have it's bundle of contradictions-**possibly fodder for a huge thread and discussion***(which for whatever reason we accept)ie the cheapo nylon band is cool but brand X chinos are not and on and on...

On this thought some "preppy" items have made their way into trad and obviously prep is a descendant, subset of trad..
sometimes you wonder..the Gucci loafer obviously very European- hardly seems trad to me but because I wouldnt wear them is hardly grounds for dismissal by the trad police.
It would be funny if Mr. Fogey Ivy really did state the cost of all of the above items but more likely just a well meaning lunch conversation.

max

However, there must be some examples of trad gone wrong.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

I will add one more piece of evidence in support of this person's assertion.

Until the 70's or 80's, many drug or convenience stores carried cheap nylon straps. They were packaged for sale on a cardboard backing with marketing copy like "no metal touches the skin" "fits all wrists", etc. Given those connotations, I can see why people would associate such straps as being cheap. 

Nylon straps are also a staple of military watches. I still wear them and like them.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

Harris, I love hanging out with those old guys. Met one in the bar at the yacht club just last month. A good ten years older than my dad, but said he used to sail with him before I was born. He seemed disappointed that I was drinking draft beer. Next thing I knew he was buying me double martinis.

And Tucker Carlson: I can't watch him without thinking how I'd like to send him to _my_ barber. He'd walk out looking right.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

Just an observation. Is it possible that the striped ribbon watchband phenomenon is something that "jumped the pond"? 

Recently I've been watching a lot of early British Avengers TV episodes from circa 1965 (released on DVD and to be found at Costco). Besides bringing back good memories I've noticed a number of the characters wearing striped watchbands. And one episode focuses partially on Emma Peal's lost watch, which also has a striped watchband.

These early shows are still in black and white (Britain didn't have color broadcasting capability yet), but they sure look like the trad/preppy watchbands that have been around.


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
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I thought you had over #200 of them. Are the all going in the dumpster?


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> ...I have to endure the first few seconds of that Californian-come-Preppy Tucker Carlson, sporting his shoestring bows, patterned forward points, circa '75 haircut, and striped watch straps. The fact that he wears the latter is enough to make want to stop wearing them.


Might as well, if you consider Tucker an imposter of some sort. Several AAAC members have made eloquent and inspiring cases in the past for separating one's sense of style from one's class/birth origins.

I observe that your views on these matters have shifted over the last year or so from a sort of "I was preppy now I'm grown up" original-trad style, to this whole 'fogey' thing which is very much a Fedora Lounge, _uber_-nostalgist, "I wish I lived in the 40s" sort of style.



> quote:_Originally posted by rojo_
> 
> And Tucker Carlson: I can't watch him without thinking how I'd like to send him to my barber. He'd walk out looking right.


Tucker is an individual and thankfully seems to make no apologies for his style (or his haircut). We can't all wear flat-top, short sides, "now that's a haircut I could set my watch to" haircuts.

Robot fightin' time! [}]


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by jmorgan32_
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I gave away a bunch of the things.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
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DD, I'm not sure I've ever thought of myself as a "grown up preppy."

Perhaps my views have shifted a bit. For better or worse.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Beresford_
> 
> Just an observation. Is it possible that the striped ribbon watchband phenomenon is something that "jumped the pond"?
> 
> ...


I believe you are correct as to their origin in the UK. I believe this stems from their use by the UK military. The UK has a long tradition of issuing good quality watches to many of its armed forces (rolex, omegas, cwc, etc.) Their military specs require that the bars or pins be fixed to the lugs of the watch, thus requiring a nylon strap.

My guess is that the normal issued straps became replaced by straps in the various regiment's colors. In the old movies, James Bond wore a strap with the regimental pattern of the general services division (I think). The US probably picked up on the regimental type straps after the war.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Just when did Timex watches become part of the "Trad" arsenal? I grew up in the 40s and 50s in what would now be called a very "ivy-league-leaning" environment, and absolutely no one other than adolescents in prep school wore anything so cheap as a Timex watch. My father generally carried a pocket watch; when he wore a wristwatch, it was a Rolex on a strap (black croc, if memory serves). My best friend's dad had a Cartier tank (which began my love affair with Cartier, which continues to this date). Other friends and/or their dads had Hamiltons or Bulovas, but never,ever Timex.

Train your eye! Then train your brain to trust your eye.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> DD, I'm not sure I've ever thought of myself as a "grown up preppy." Perhaps my views have shifted a bit. For better or worse.


Of course it's not worth dwelling on. Just an observation, really. I am concerned, though, that you may start wearing suits _all the time_, not just at work!


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

Well, I've no intention of stopping wearing mine. Even if my father does think they're a bit silly.


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## Rebel_5 (Jan 9, 2006)

Are modern Bulovas considered Trad?


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## 16198 (Feb 25, 2005)

My Grandfather, now 89 years old, wears one on his Timex and has for at least 30 years. It looks good on him, in his LL bean duds and suspenders. Heâ€™s trad in my book. He rotated the bands about once a season as I recall. I remember being a little kid and him telling me how he found them more comfortable than leather or metal. 

These days he wears just one that my Mom gave him from her collection when his last one got too old and soiled. My mom got into them in the 80â€™s when they were popular and wore them on 14K gold mens watches. She used to laugh about the $800 watch and the $5 band thing. She matched them to her outfit every day.

Growing up we wore them with a Timex Ironman, G Shock, or a military/ Bean type field watch once the original band got old or broken. We took them from our parents or bought them at the local pharmacy because they were cheap, available, and acceptable.

Last year Mom gave me a 14K gold watch and passed on 30 or so bands to wear with it. It came with a black leather croc band which sees some use too.

My take on it all is that going for the super bright colored ones and matching them to your outfit every day is fun, but a bit affected. Itâ€™s clearly discussed in the OPH and they come in school colors so Iâ€™d say itâ€™s got some strength in the preppy branch of the trad tree.

No worries though. Feeling conservative, go leather, feeling bold and a bit preppy, break out a bright band and some yellow socks and a pink sweater.


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## 3button Max (Feb 6, 2006)

I have read/seen drawing pix of solid black silk ribbon on watches in the 20's -so the concept goes back a bit.


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## msh14 (Nov 11, 2005)

Harris, if you don't mind my asking, where in NJ do you live?


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

They may not be Ivy, but I just bought a handful of ribbon watchbands from the local Brooks Brothers factory outlet with a little BB dead sheep on the keeper.

I've got my Dad's old gold Le Coultre on one, and his Movado military watch from WWII on another. I think old watches look great with these grosgrain bands.


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## 3button Max (Feb 6, 2006)

"little bb dead sheep"

that's great!-Can we keep it in the act?

I liked the watch bands (pictured on BB website)but a little put out by "branding" the said dead sheep on keeper.
my sister in law got me the bow tie(Brooks icon as motif) really poor silk +branding again-she meant well--or she was fleeced I guess.

3 button max


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by 3button Max_
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> I liked the watch bands (pictured on BB website)but a little put out by "branding" the said dead sheep on keeper.
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> 3 button max


Out here in the faraway colonies (Hawaii) such things are difficult to come by. When one sees them one snatches them up, even if they have dead sheep on them.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by msh14_
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> Harris, if you don't mind my asking, where in NJ do you live?


Northern.


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## msh14 (Nov 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
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Again if you don't mind, which town specifically. I'm just curious because I live in Short Hills.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

How else would you wear a mechanical service watch? On a croc strap? LOL


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## Daniele (Dec 28, 2004)

My Continental two eurocents: I think that the Ivy gentleman was right, croc suits better more formal attire; but for less 'dressy' or smart casual attire I'd say grosgrain it's ok, and it has been adopted by used by some very style-conscious people in the 50s... In other words, if it was good for Chet Baker, it's enough good for me also .


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## ROI (Aug 1, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Daniele_
> 
> My Continental two eurocents: I think that the Ivy gentleman was right, croc suits better more formal attire; but for less 'dressy' or smart casual attire I'd say grosgrain it's ok, and it has been adopted by used by some very style-conscious people in the 50s... In other words, if it was good for Chet Baker, it's enough good for me also .


Chet Baker's consideration was more practical than any of ours; he used his to tie off when he was shooting drugs. Not the image most here are cultivating.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by 3button Max_
> 
> I liked the watch bands (pictured on BB website)but a little put out by "branding" the said dead sheep on keeper.


15 seconds with a paring knife and that little bugger pops right off, leaving virtually no trace of its annoying existence.


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## Daniele (Dec 28, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by ROI_
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'What you are is measure of what you can', as an ancient _Magister_ used to say.

Btw, do you mean that praticity is un-Trad?


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## Daniele (Dec 28, 2004)

Sorry for mispelling, I meant 'practicality' of course.


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## boatshoes (Aug 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Brownshoe_
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Double that if all you have at your disposal are finger nails.


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

> quote:I believe you are correct as to their origin in the UK. I believe this stems from their use by the UK military. The UK has a long tradition of issuing good quality watches to many of its armed forces (rolex, omegas, cwc, etc.) Their military specs require that the bars or pins be fixed to the lugs of the watch, thus requiring a nylon strap.
> 
> My guess is that the normal issued straps became replaced by straps in the various regiment's colors. In the old movies, James Bond wore a strap with the regimental pattern of the general services division (I think). The US probably picked up on the regimental type straps after the war.


Tom is right about the military background in the UK. It's unusual to see ribbon watchbands on this side of the pond - but when I do see someone wearing one, it's usually in the Guards colours.


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## 3button Max (Feb 6, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Brownshoe_
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Great! thanks for directions-I sort of want one and will probably have to kill the sheep.

max


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