# Trying the car thread again



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Not about excitement or exhiliration at speed.

This is about fun or boredom from everyday use:

Most fun:
1. Vauxhalls/Opels
2. Fiats (500, X19, Panda, 600 - London, Maderia, Sweden, Italy - fun wherever I've driven them )
3. Small Korean/Japanese cars
4. Jaguars (especially my friend's C Type and the 80s XJ6 Sport)
5. Rovers (especially the SD1 and the P6 [first car I ever went over a 100mph in])

Most boring:
1. Fords
2. Saabs
3. Volvos
4. VW
5. Everything French


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Not about excitement or exhiliration at speed.
> 
> This is about fun or boredom from everyday use:
> 
> ...


Funny you should bring this up today. I'm driving a Porsche Boxster (borrowed) this week. Extreme fun in the extreme.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

During the last couple of weeks I've needed on occasion to drive my mother in law's Saab 9-3, I don't think I've ever driven a more joyless and uncomfortable car than this. No wonder the company went bust, because with cars like that I now know why no one was buying them! I'm not at all surprised because it's a bloody awful car - sluggish, acceleration of a bus, understeers like mad, it has the turning circle of an oil tanker, the steering wheel is huge and very high & can't be adjusted, you have to sit slightly sideways on a very uncomfortable seat as the pedals are moved over to the right, the ignition key is in the central console between the seats, and you have to engage reverse both to start the engine and to remove the key...and this is a manual!!! Plus loads of other irritating aspects.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Most fun, (in completely different ways), when I lived in California I had a 1975 Datsun 280Z and a 1964 Cadillac Coupe de Ville. At the same time.
Both very enjoyable cars.

In my more sedentary life these days, I'd have to vote for our now departed 2003 Citroen Berlingo. A modern deux cheveux.
The 2009 Berlingo we replaced it with was awful. They tried to make it more car like but just made it bland. Bigger but somehow with a smaller boot.

Currently have a Ford S-Max which is functional, and compared to the Berlingos quite luxurious, but ultimately uninspiring.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I wouldn't have another Ford if you offered me one brand new & free of charge.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

My 1990 Honda CRX was a lot of fun to drive.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Yea, small Japanese/Korean cars are great fun to own and drive. I had an aunt who owned a tiny 2 door 1980s Nissan Sunny but with a 1.6 engine, which for its size was a huge engine, it went like stink! I used to love flying around in it.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Here's my top half dozen list of the small cars I've had most fun driving. 

1. 1989 Vauxhall Astra, 5 door hatchback, 1.6 engine
2. 1979 Vauxhall Astra, 3 door hatchback, 1.3 engine
3. 2012 Fiat Panda, 5 door hatchback, 1.2 engine
4. 1980s Nissan Sunny, 3 door hatchback, 1.6 engine
5. 1980s Fiat X1/9, 1.5 engine 
6. 1980s Opel Corsa, 3 door hatchback, 1.4 engine


Bottom of the list - i.e. the small cars I hated driving:

Renault 4 
Renault 6
Renault 12
Mini Metro
Maestro
Volvo 440
Volvo 480 
Ford Fiesta
Ford Escort


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I wouldn't have another Ford if you offered me one brand new & free of charge.


Cars can be so situational. I've generally had good luck with Fords. But I've also known people who had wretched, never-again experiences, even with the same make, year and model that worked for me. It's instructive to check out some websites, of which there are no shortage, where owners rate cars and talk about their personal experiences. The experiences and ratings run the gamut with any given year, make, model. My all-time best car was a 1994 Ford Taurus. Bought it for $500 at a garage sale, drove it 50,000 miles and sold it for $1,500, with no major expense beyond a water pump (which is to be expected when you get up to 140,000 miles or so). I still see it tooling around town years after I got rid of it, and the present owner, whom I once followed to a parking lot, raved about what a great car it was and how lucky she was to find it. Mrs. 32 thinks I erred in getting rid of it.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

I will try this again, I started this after the first post while on a conference call, and must have named 8 vehicles at least, only to submit and losing everything when I had to login again.

Fun:

1. *1994 Jeep Wrangler Sahara* I was with my father when he purchased this brand new at the dealership, and when he took delivery of it. It was a special order vehicle for him. He passed away in 2001 and left the Jeep to me. I got my drivers license about 6 months after his passing, and it has been a weekend driver for me ever since, not every weekend, but especially in the next couple of months before it get's to be 105 out and I can comfortably drive it without the top, and doors. I've gotten more attention from women in this Jeep than I have when I was driving my mothers gaudy SUV's (Escalade, Navigator)

2. *1998 Land Range Rover 4.0 SE *this thing was absolutely my favorite daily driver. I did alot of the work on the "gremlins" that they tend to have on my own. Replacing computer systems, and air bags that sprung a leak. It was extremely comfortable, and a dream to drive on the highway with it airbag suspension. I sold it when my wife, and I were getting married to help finance our wedding.

3. *2008 Land Rover Range Rover 4.6 HSE* 5 years after our wedding I was finally able to replace the 98 that I sold. This one was a craigslist find that I got for an absolute steal. The lady who listed it from the Rio Grande Valley was not the owner of the vehicle, and had to have all of the paperwork signed through her husbands lawyer since he was in a Federal Penitentiary. He is one of the 8 guys named in this article I was a nervous wreck driving it back from the RGV and passing the Sarita Border Patrol checkpoint. I had my story ready just in case the drug dog hit on my vehicle about just purchasing it. Strangely enough I waited in line for about 15 minutes 20 cars or so. It seemed as though every car was getting the 5th degree from the agents, and when it was my turn they didn't even ask me if I was a citizen just waved me on through.

4. *96-2003 Ford F-250's* my brother fancies himself a ranch hand and a general outdoorsman. He has had at least 12 of these in the past ten years. He finds them for cheap with high miles, and as soon as he buys them puts them up for sale at a mark-up, and drives it until someone offers him what he's asking. He has never sold one for less than what he purchased it for. These truck are just the epitome of truck. If you are not hauling a loaded trailer every weekend they are essentially overkill, but they are fun.

*Diesels*: In general I prefer diesel motors over gas motors. I don't really know why it may be the noise, or the smell of the burning diesel. I would love to have a diesel Land Rover, and one of my dream vehicles is the mid 80's diesel Mercedes wagon with the rear facing third row seat. I have found a couple of these before, but my wife will not allow me to buy one that does not have therear facing third row.

Boring:

1. *Dodge 1500-3500* my brother in law owned one when they started selling them with the Hemi motors, and I hated it. It had ZERO turning radius.

2. *Mercedes ML 320 CDI *my mother recently bought one of these, and I thought I would love it. It's diesel it's Mercedes what could go wrong? It is such a boring car. Silver ext. Black leather int. The only nice part of the vehicle is the burlwood on the center of the dash. It is an absolute torque monster though. If you are correctly using the paddle shifters on the steering wheel it will pin you into the seat, but they are so horribly placed that just about every time I drive it, I down shift while turning.

3. *Lincoln Navigator* my mother went through a phase of wanting cars that would normally be seen on MTV's Cribs with 26" rims. She only had this one for about 6 months, and I thought it was just terribly boring to drive.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Most fun, in order of possession, there were a few others that weren't much fun:
'67 Pontiac GTO convertable,
Saab 96,
Lotus Europa, Series 1,
Lotus 7, Series II, I think. It had a ford 105 E engine and right hand drive,
Lotus Elise, the first model year they were available in the US.

ALso have had a Series I and a half 109' wheel base, Land Rover, several VW vans, a 1971 camper; a couple of Vanagons and a Eurovan. The most reliable was the '71 van.

I currently drive a 95 Land Rover D-90 and a BMW 328 xi wagon with manual transmission.

The Elise was remarkably fast and vey nimble. The Europa anticipated the configuration, construction and performance of the Elise by 30 years. I think the Elise came close to what Chapman would have considered an ideal balance of power, weight, handling and innovation. Despite looking 'way too slick for my tastes, it came close to the spirit of the Seven.

I wish I'd kept the Seven.

Gurdon


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

^^

Jeep. Never. Ever. Again.

I know Jeep has its fans, but after the nightmare that was Mrs. 32's 1999 Jeep Cherokee I would never buy a Jeep. Unbeknownst to most folks, including myself and Mrs. 32, Jeeps are prone to a condition called the Jeep Death Rattle (yes, that is really what they call it). It is a front-end issue that erupts at highway speed making the occupants feel as if the vehicle is about to come apart. The only way to stop it is to pull off the road, come to a complete stop and try again. And when you get back up to highway speed, it will happen again with no warning whatsoever.

Sometimes, it can be fixed and sometimes it cannot be fixed, no matter how much money you spend. We gave up after a new set of tires and about $500 worth of front-end work. My mechanic was realistic: He told us, plainly, that we could well spend thousands of dollars and never track it down. Mrs. 32's guy (she uses someone else) confidently predicted that everything was fixed after we spent $200 or so on some sort of new part (can't recall what it was). Of course, it was not fixed. And so we rid ourselves of the Jeep last month. It had just 117,000 miles on it, the body was in perfect condition, the interior was good and it had no mechanical issues whatsoever except the Jeep Death Rattle, which rendered the vehicle worthless long before its time.

For those who wish to roll the dice and buy a used Jeep anyway, don't do it without first taking it out on the highway for an extended drive. At least 45 minutes at highway speed. And even then. Before pulling the trigger, google "jeep death rattle" and ask yourself whether you really want to take any chance on descending into this mechanical purgatory. It's just not worth it.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> ^^
> 
> Jeep. Never. Ever. Again.
> 
> ...


I know it well, but I know it as the death wobble. We had a 2007 4 door JK that had this happen, and when it does it's scary as hell, but the issue is well documented and it's an incredibly easy fix. You need a new steering stabilizer with a new bracket. It should cost less than $100.00 and it was a permanent fix for us. There's a reason Jeeps hold their value so well. They are tough built like tanks incredibly reliable and really easy to work on.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Dmontez said:


> I know it well, but I know it as the death wobble. We had a 2007 4 door JK that had this happen, and when it does it's scary as hell, but the issue is well documented and it's an incredibly easy fix. You need a new steering stabilizer with a new bracket. It should cost less than $100.00 and it was a permanent fix for us. There's a reason Jeeps hold their value so well. They are tough built like tanks incredibly reliable and really easy to work on.


Yeah, I've read about the steering stabilizer--in fact, I think that may have been what my wife's mechanic installed with the guaranteed-fixed smile. Glad it worked for you. Doesn't work for everyone. Believe me. If it were only so easy and straightforward, it would not be such a topic all over the Internet. Also, it should be of concern that your Jeep is eight years newer than ours was and it was STILL an issue. That's not good. At all.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Most boring:
> 1. Fords
> 2. Saabs
> 3. Volvos
> ...


I disagree about Saabs and French cars - I had an older Saab once, it was a very satisfying car to drive and incredibly solid, built like a steam engine - I'm sure it would have been very safe in a crash, but I dare say that is a slightly boring consideration. I have also had numerous Renaults and Citroens, also a Peugeot. The Peugeot was boring but the others weren't at all, my 2CV was great fun and even the Clio I once had was quite fun. I would have had a DS or a Traction Avant if I could have found a sound one.

At one time I had a BMW 325 convertible which was quite 'exciting' i.e. fast, but also rather boring in a way.

Some cars have a certain character, and that is what I now look for in a car (besides, naturally, opulent luxury) so I am now on the look-out for a well-worn car of a certain well-known marque, but at a knock-down price.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Character, yes, thats it, isnt it? Very difficult to out your finger on exactly What that is when it comes to Cars, but you know immediately the very first time you drive any car if it has character or not.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Another necessary consideration in my household is the ability to put up with a certain level of abuse (talking about cars (mostly)).


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

I've had only Saabs for the past 20 years. Solid and safe for the most part, four of them were written off in accidents. One a 9000 I was shunted in and although not destroyed it was an insurance write off, as was the 900 that replaced it when a lorry reversed into it. The replacement, a 9-5 was destroyed when a stupid girl in a small Peugeot drove into the back of me at about 40mph whilst I was stationary in a queue of traffic, and shunted me into a Range Rover. Although the car's front and back ends were destroyed, the passenger compartment was undamaged and I, and more importantly, both my children were unhurt. The next, also a 9-5 turned over at speed when a tyre blew out on a sharp corner on a dual carriageway. It traveled about 100 yards on its roof, but I got out, through the door, unhurt.
I now have a 9-5 Aero, which has 250bhp and breathtaking acceleration, whilst looking like a family saloon car. It is comfortable and roomy, and can take four adults and their bags comfortably on holiday. Boring it isn't!
The car I most enjoyed driving was my MGB Roadster.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Remind me to have you ride shotgun the next time we take a trip somewhere.



Chouan said:


> I've only had Saabs for the past 20 years. Solid and safe for the most part, four of them were written off in accidents. One a 9000 I was shunted in and although not destroyed it was an insurance write off, as was the 900 that replaced it when a lorry reversed into it. The replacement, a 9-5 was destroyed when a stupid girl in a small Peugeot drove into the back of me at about 40mph whilst I was stationary in a queue of traffic, and shunted me into a Range Rover. Although the car's front and back ends were destroyed, the passenger compartment was undamaged and I, and more importantly, both my children were unhurt. The next, also a 9-5 turned over at speed when a tyre blew out on a sharp corner on a dual carriageway. It traveled about 100 yards on its roof, but I got out, through the door, unhurt.
> I now have a 9-5 Aero, which has 250bhp and breathtaking acceleration, whilst looking like a family saloon car. It is comfortable and roomy, and can take four adults and their bags comfortably on holiday. Boring it isn't!
> The car I most enjoyed driving was my MGB Roadster.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> Remind me to have you ride shotgun the next time we take a trip somewhere.


Don't stand near me in a thunderstorm.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Chouan said:


> Don't stand near me in a thunderstorm.


Mrs. 32 doesn't.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Character, yes, thats it, isnt it? Very difficult to out your finger on exactly What that is when it comes to Cars, but you know immediately the very first time you drive any car if it has character or not.


Absolutely true.

My own experience is that "character" is not necessarily a virtue. I recall a Peugeot diesel owned by my uncle that was chock-a-block with character.


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Not about excitement or exhiliration at speed.
> 
> Most boring:
> 1. Fords
> ...


While I agree with your assessment of Volvos in general, I'd have to make an exception for the p1800 (I've been thinking about beginning the search for a well-restored one.)

In general, it's the little road-hugging roadsters which are loads of fun. There are many to choose from, but the Lotus Elise probably comes close to topping the list.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Dhaller said:


> In general, it's the little road-hugging roadsters which are loads of fun. There are many to choose from, but the Lotus Elise probably comes close to topping the list.


That was my experience. Not only did the Elise perform wonderfully, the connection between the Elise and Chapman's early designs was clear, as was the connection to classic British motor sport.

Gurdon


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## jrobie79 (Aug 19, 2009)

1985-1991 BMW 3-series...most fun little car out there, needs to be stick tho


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Most fun cars for me have been convertibles in the summer and trucks/SUVs in the winter. I tend to be fond of older convertibles and newer trucks.

Most sedans bore me. I'm also not fond of minivans.


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## Joseph Peter (Mar 26, 2012)

Glad to see the car thread. Acquired a 2014 CTS-V this past November. Yummy.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Joseph Peter said:


> Glad to see the car thread. Acquired a 2014 CTS-V this past November. Yummy.


A buddy of mine bought one of those a few years ago. He was looking for a four door car that drove nicely and had a bit of umph, while not appearing ostentatious. He thought that CTS-V walked the line the best, and he has been pleased with the car. I hope you enjoy it too.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

My concern with Cadillac would be durability. Friends I've known who've had them say they're great until they start to break, and that they start to break a lot sooner than expected. Always been more of a Lincoln fan.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^However, with the Platinum maintenance plan that comes with Cadillac's new car sales, Caddy owners enjoy at least 4 years or 50,000 miles of peace of mind! I've been very pleased with the SRX we've owned for close to 3 years, at this point.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Mrs. 32 just got a 2011 Honda Accord equipped with a V6, and I like it very much. Not sexy, but solid, sufficient power for our needs and every option you can think of. Much nicer than the plain-jane Toyota Tacoma I drive that has neither electric windows nor cruise control. OTOH, I'm into the second week of the borrowed Boxster, and it is very much growing on me. Plenty of scoot, comfortable (once you get used to being six inches off the ground) and just the right amount of luxury without going over the edge--you don't really need bluetooth or hand controls for the stereo on the steering wheel. Secondhand ones of this vintage (2000) with low miles are widely available for under $20,000 (the dealer who sold us the Honda had one for $17,500 with something like 35k on it), and it is tempting until I consider that an oil change costs $600.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Anyone got a modern Chrysler like a 300C or a Crossfire? Love the look of them but apparantly they are real junkers!


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Anyone got a modern Chrysler like a 300C or a Crossfire? Love the look of them but apparantly they are real junkers!


I don't really find either appealing. As for the quality, I believe there was undercover video of a bunch of Chrysler workers on lunch breaking getting high and because of union rules the company wasn't able to fire them.

American car makers have never really paid attention to styling, certainly not the sedans. I think Buick is doing a nice job now and Cadillac about 10 years ago started to do this as well. Some of the new Fords look slick as well.


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## ChrisRS (Sep 22, 2014)

32rollandrock said:


> Mrs. 32 just got a 2011 Honda Accord equipped with a V6, and I like it very much. Not sexy, but solid, sufficient power for our needs and every option you can think of. Much nicer than the plain-jane Toyota Tacoma I drive that has neither electric windows nor cruise control. OTOH, I'm into the second week of the borrowed Boxster, and it is very much growing on me. Plenty of scoot, comfortable (once you get used to being six inches off the ground) and just the right amount of luxury without going over the edge--you don't really need bluetooth or hand controls for the stereo on the steering wheel. Secondhand ones of this vintage (2000) with low miles are widely available for under $20,000 (the dealer who sold us the Honda had one for $17,500 with something like 35k on it), and it is tempting until I consider that an oil change costs $600.


I don't know how we ended up as car twins, but I have the same two cars. I suspect my Tacoma has a slight technology edge, but not much. i have electric windows and locks. I also love the Honda. Entry level luxury with good power but I don't mind if it gets dinged.

To the OP and fun cars, I have owned two convertibles. As a teenager, a 1970 Fiat Spider, and as a father rewarding a teenage daughter, a 1998? Saab 900. Both were fantastic to drive and frustrating to maintain.


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## Joseph Peter (Mar 26, 2012)

32, I think the issues with durability are old news. I've had Caddies since 96 and zero issues with them since. Maybe I just have been lucky and they arent perfect by any means but at least for that make, GM has its act together. The only "problem" with the V is rear wheel drive and with 556 hp, you can burn up tires in a week.

On that note, however, the new Lincolns do look pretty good!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Joseph Peter said:


> 32, I think the issues with durability are old news. I've had Caddies since 96 and zero issues with them since. Maybe I just have been lucky and they arent perfect by any means but at least for that make, GM has its act together. The only "problem" with the V is rear wheel drive and with 556 hp, you can burn up tires in a week.
> 
> On that note, however, the new Lincolns do look pretty good!


Your experience is the better one, then because I've always steered clear. A friend who gets one after the other never manages to get much past 120K or so before the nickel-and-dime stuff starts in. I know that older models were bona fide disasters. I'm probably more cautious than I should be. I won't consider a Hyundai, for example, because they had such a bad rap when first introduced eons ago.

Before we got the Accord, we test drove a Lincoln MKZ and were much impressed. Still, the Accord seemed a better choice, if only because it's been around long enough that any mechanical kinks likely would be ironed out. And I still trust Japanese durability more than American. If I had my druthers, though, we would have gotten a Town Car. Those things are tanks, and super comfy. But Mrs. 32 wanted something that didn't scream "old people," plus she wanted front wheel drive.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

ChrisRS said:


> I don't know how we ended up as car twins, but I have the same two cars. I suspect my Tacoma has a slight technology edge, but not much. i have electric windows and locks. I also love the Honda. Entry level luxury with good power but I don't mind if it gets dinged.
> 
> To the OP and fun cars, I have owned two convertibles. As a teenager, a 1970 Fiat Spider, and as a father rewarding a teenage daughter, a 1998? Saab 900. *Both were fantastic to drive and frustrating to maintain.*


For me, this is it, exactly. I don't have the patience or wallet to put up with a car that's in the shop a lot. My Tacoma is a 2002. Standard cab. The only options it came with were a radio and air conditioning. But it was super cheap and, after two years, has yet to have a mechanical issue of any sort.


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## Joseph Peter (Mar 26, 2012)

Lol, you know what they say: happy wife,...


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Joseph Peter said:


> Lol, you know what they say: happy wife,...


Exactly, my missus is extremely happy with our uber-safe, ultra-economic, super comfortable Hyundai i30 diesel estate.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Took the Boxster back last night. Back to the Tacoma. It seemed fine before, but now I feel like I'm in the Beverly Hillbillies.


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