# Good Tailors in Sydney?



## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

I'm looking for a good decent tailor in Sydney. I wouldn't know where to start looking, I have no clue where they are, can anyone help me out? Sorry if a similar topic was posted before, the search function is not working for me.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

John Cutler, in Henry Bucks, O'Connell St.

Joe Cutrone, Edgecliff Centre, Edgecliff.

Aus


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

When you say tailor - do you mean alterations or bespoke suits & shirts?

If bespoke then John Cutler is good - though things are not the same since the departure of Karl Sussmann...


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

Mainly just as a bespoke tailor or services similar as the prices for bespoke is abit too high for me. I've heard of John Cutler, any ideas how much it is in general for a shirt?


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EndZone_
> 
> Mainly just as a bespoke tailor or services similar as the prices for bespoke is abit too high for me. I've heard of John Cutler, any ideas how much it is in general for a shirt?


Depends on fabric but say AUD350. I have not had Joe Cutrone make me a shirt but I would guess that his charges would be somewhat cheaper. Rochefort in Elizabeth St, primarily a tie maker, also makes shirts, but I am not sure whether this is a MTM service or bespoke.

Aus


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

I've heard there is a tailor in Maroubra, Sydney that does draping. I was curious about this, have you heard about them before?


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EndZone_
> 
> I've heard there is a tailor in Maroubra, Sydney that does draping. I was curious about this, have you heard about them before?


I have not heard about him. The other better known tailors in Sydney are Bijan, in O'Connell St and Adamo Marrone in Leichardt, but I know nothing of their work, nor know anyone who has had anything made by them. There is a short RealPlayer movie about Adamo .

Aus

edit: hyperlinks added


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by PhatG_
> 
> When you say tailor - do you mean alterations or bespoke suits & shirts?
> 
> If bespoke then John Cutler is good - though things are not the same since the departure of Karl Sussmann...


Yes, Karl had a wonderful eye for materials and colours. He was always impeccably dressed whenever I visited, a man of true style. Having said that, the actual fit and silhouette of the suit comes from john's skill as a cutter. I would recommend him without reservation.

AZTEC

**************************************


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

Re Rochefort...

He makes beautiful ties (I have a few, & look forward to collecting more)... As for Shane's shirts - personally I had a very bad experience... (I was spoilt by the attention to detail & service from karl & John at Cutler)

Cutler's Bespoke shirts are my favourite of the Australian made - I have over 25 Cutler shirts to date...

Vince Maloney on Elizabeth St also offer a fantastic tailoring service as well as a shirt service.

What ever you do, avoid Harrolds in Sydney... The service & feel is 'smarmy'...


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by PhatG_
> 
> What ever you do, avoid Harrolds in Sydney... The service & feel is 'smarmy'...


Could not agree more.

Aus


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

I'm wondering where is Karl Sussmann now?
Also what do you mean by "smarmy"? Sorry there's so much I don't know &gt;.&lt;


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## twchoy (Jan 21, 2005)

I have not heard about him. The other better known tailors in Sydney are Bijan, in O'Connell St and Adamo Marrone in Leichardt, but I know nothing of their work, nor know anyone who has had anything made by them. There is a short RealPlayer movie about Adamo .

Aus

edit: hyperlinks added
[/quote]

I have been a customer of Casa Adamo for a few years , I'm very happy with his work.
Adamo and his wife Theresa are the nicest people you ever meet.
His suits are very soft with minimal paddings.
Also for complicated alterations, he is only person that i trust.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EndZone_
> 
> I'm wondering where is Karl Sussmann now?
> Also what do you mean by "smarmy"? Sorry there's so much I don't know >.<


*smarmy* adj. colloq. Ingratiating, obsequious; smug, unctuous. Fawning, esp. when applied to menswear salesmen.

Aus


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

Karl is currently enjoying his other passion - cycling as well as travelling


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

Does anyone know the prices for these tailors? eg. for 2pc suits in super 120s


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

Besides making and altering clothes, does any of the mentioned tailors above offer to make shoes? I heard John Cutler provides a service, any idea in general for the cost and time involved?

thanks


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## twchoy (Jan 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EndZone_
> 
> Besides making and altering clothes, does any of the mentioned tailors above offer to make shoes? I heard John Cutler provides a service, any idea in general for the cost and time involved?
> 
> thanks


John Cutler is the Sydney agent for Edward Green shoes, a pair of mto Edward Green will set you back $AUD1500.
It would take around four months for a pair of mto Greens to arrive in Sydney.


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

twchoy

How does Adamo's works compared to Cutler's?


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

Depending on your style - I originally went to Cutler for my first serious suit, only to walk away with Brioni & Corneliani (all MTM)... Why, I prefer the feel & softness of Italian suits that John himself will never attempt as he is of the more structured & older style. Same reason I have yet to find a Zegna suit (Sartorial & Couture) that I am comortable wearing - shame as they have fantastic fabrics & are available EVERYWHERE.

FYI 1- I recently visited John to discuss the merits of making a suit for my wedding, we agreed that as much as he would like to make me a suit, he himself admitted that the end product would not be to my likening... Funny enough it was suggested that the only other alternative in Sydney was Adamo...

FYI 2 - You must be very patient, as John has limited time/resources & hence only pruduces a limited number of suits per year. You may have to wait your turn.

So, you have to ask your self what style appeals to you & "suits" you...

Best to go in & talk to John & discuss what you are looking for... Then go to Adamo & do the same... You must connect with the tailor!

As mentioned before Harrolds is not an option (even though they are the only Brioni & Kiton reseller in NSW, I would not trust them for a MTM or any of there 'bespoke' services). 

FWIW I have bought a few Caruso suits during their sale(s) as they literally fit me OTR & are great value for work with out the fear of accidents etc.


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## twchoy (Jan 21, 2005)

I have to agree with PhatG Cutler's suits are more structure and some what conservative. I believe Cutler spent some time in Savile Row learning the art of bespoke tailoring. Hence his style leaning towards Savile Row.
Although in a recent conversation with him, he does have a Italian coat maker that would creat a softer Italian style suit, if the client chooses to.

Most of the suit that Adamo have made for me are similar to Borrelli, Kiton, Saint Andrews in design. They are usually cut with higher armholes and more of a fitted coat and minimal shoulder paddings. Unlike other tailors, he likes to work with very fine clothes. His suits are very soft to wear.

They are both exceptional tailors working in Sydney. As PhatG suggested talk to both of them and see which one you will connect with.


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

Adamo sounds like my kinda tailor. Would he be willing to do military blazers and embroidery?


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

So are we saying that in terms of thier cutting abilities and the quality of workmanship, they both are comparable?


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## twchoy (Jan 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EndZone_
> 
> Adamo sounds like my kinda tailor. Would he be willing to do military blazers and embroidery?


I am sure he can if you ask, in his early years as a tailor, he was making military uniforms for the Italian army.


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## twchoy (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by posa_
> 
> So are we saying that in terms of thier cutting abilities and the quality of workmanship, they both are comparable?
> [/quote
> ...


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by EndZone_
> 
> Adamo sounds like my kinda tailor. Would he be willing to do military blazers and embroidery?


I'm having a little difficulty picturing the type of tailoring that you are contemplating. Adamo's tailoring is toward the soft end - precisely the opposite of the hard or military type of tailoring that is more John Cutler's style. A soft tailored blazer will look more rowing club than military.

I would suggest Joe Cutrone as an alternative to John Cutler, for a military style blazer. Former Labor leader Mark Latham, and ex-Wallaby captain John Eales, are acknowledged clients. Eales in particular seems to favour military style blazers.

Aus


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

If it is a truly classy bespoke suit you are after I would like to put my vote in for Adamo Marrone in Leichhardt. He does a beautifully constructed and stylistically eloquent fully hand-made suit that is really a work of art for prices that are less than a Brioni ready to wear. He will even do a fully hand-made bespoke super 220's suit to the tune of about $10000 AUD. 

As for a genuine top class bespoke shirt then make sure you check out Charles Nahkle in Parramatta. Even if this seems too far out west for you I still strongly recommend a special visit just to meet Charles even if it is to just look through his swatches. He always stocks beautiful material. There is even one guy that comes from Italy just to order shirts from him. His prices are amazingly reasonable too. You might pay three times as much if you brought the same quality shirt on Jermyn St. In fact I just visited the Brioni shop in Rome last week and I must say I just brushed straight past their shirt section, as I thought I could get an equally nicer shirt for a fraction of the price from Charles. 

As far as someone who I trust completely for modifcations to suits then I whole-heartedly recommend Argy's on Crown St, Surry Hills. In fact Argy has my new Brioni suit right now and I wouldn't have entrusted it to anyone else in town. I have to drive 45 minutes to get to him but he really is good. He will also makes suits and given his eye for shape and form I imagine he would also be very good although I haven't had a chance to inspect his work in detail.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Aus_MD_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


350 AUD???! [:0]

May I suggest going to Charles Nahkle in Parramatta even if you do have to travel a bit to get there. I have spoken to tailors in Sydney who feel that John Cutler charges inflated prices. I strongly recommend at least ordering one shirt from Charles and you will probably find he does a superb FULLY bespoke shirt that is just as good or better for between 175-250 AUD depending on the materials. Charles says he only makes about 30AUD per shirt so his mark ups are very low.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by posa_
> 
> Does anyone know the prices for these tailors? eg. for 2pc suits in super 120s


For Adamo this will cost about 3600 AUD for a two piece, FULLY canvassed hand made suit with functional sleeve buttons, hand picking etc. In fact he even makes functional sleeves buttons by hand rather than using a machine, as is generally the case.


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

Does Adamo offer a MTM service too?


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

EndZone

Either way this is going to sound rude (I'm just trying to understand what you are trying to achieve) - but there appears to be no consistency with your questions or post on this forum - or is it just me?

You have been given a fountain of knowledge to start with by other members of this forum, yet still appear to be lost/confused?

Below is a synopsis of your Qs:
1. You ask for a good tailor in Sydney?
2. Then you ask about bespoke in Sydney?
3. You then make reference that bespoke is to expensive, but still persist with either Cutler or Adamo?
4. You then mention a tailor in Maroubra that does draping? Curtains?
5. You then ask about shoes made to order?
6. You ask about Karl, but obviously have never met him?
7. Then deciding on Adamo for... Military inspired clothing? Embroidery? When we have just described the differences between Cutler & Adamo...

Again, please don't take this the wrong way as forums like this are a great source of information - I learn't the hard way, trial & error...


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

Sator

Could you give us the contact details for Charles Nahkle and Argy's?
Is Argy's quick enough for you?


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by posa_
> 
> Sator
> 
> ...


Nakhle is located at 69 Phillip St in Parramatta.

Aus


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

PhatG, I realize my posts have been confusing and out of the way. I was thinking of too much things and wanting to know this and that coz I've never really experienced much with tailors in Sydney. 

I apologize for my outlandishness.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by posa_
> 
> Sator
> 
> ...


Argy Clothing Alterations
Tailors-Mens'
668 Crown Street Surry Hills NSW 2010
Tel: (02) 93197291
Mob 0419 268 574

Charles Nakhle (sorry I misspelt his surname):
NAKHLE SHIRTMAKERS
Suite 7 Lower Ground Floor, 55-65 Phillip Street, Parramatta NSW 2150
Phone: (02) 9633 4696

Argy has an excellent turn over time in my experience. That said I have never had to get anything done in any great hurry either.

BTW I forgot to mention that I just went to see Charles yesterday and he showed me a small sample of materials he had just got in from Italy and they were beautiful. He had some nice cotton/silk blends but the pure cotton materials were almost as silky. He had not had time to unpack everything to show me his swatches but I think I will drop in soon and take a look. Don't take my word for it - for all I can say is if you appreciate a fine shirt you will be glad you paid Charles a visit.

Both Argy and Charles are highly affable and knowledgable people when it comes to their craft.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by EndZone_
> 
> Does Adamo offer a MTM service too?


If what you mean is that a bespoke suit of super 100-120s wool is too expensive (with Adamo in this price range we are generally talking Zegna materials) then Adamo will do a basic suit for around $1800 AUD. You won't have a suit with functional sleeve buttons, hand picking in the lapels etc and the materials will be more basic but it is still a Casa Adamo suit. On the other hand last week in Rome the Brioni ready to made suits all started at 2700 EUROS - so really from an international perspective prices are quite competitive.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Oh did I mention that Charles Nakhle does the 'bespoke' shirts for Baubridge and Kay in the city, although Charles did confide in me that B&K get customers to try on a made to measure size then just say a bit shorter there, a bit longer there etc and pass these on to him. Theirs is therefore really not a true bespoke shirt in the strictest sense. B&K charge more for their 'bespoke' service too...


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks Sator
I just ordered a shirt with Charles. $185 with Eqyptian cotton - seems a good value if the shirt fits well.
I will try Argy's in due course.

appreciate the info.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by posa_
> 
> Thanks Sator
> I just ordered a shirt with Charles. $185 with Eqyptian cotton - seems a good value if the shirt fits well.
> ...


You are welcome. Keep us posted on how you find Charles' service.


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

Sure, I will.

Charles only had very thin shell buttons but I was wondering if I can get some of those thick mother of pearl buttons like the ones on Brioni, RLPL and Zegna couture.

Also no one really stocks good sea island cottons here...


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

BTW I have also commissioned Adamo on a 3pc suit (H&S 120's) and I will keep you posted on that as well. 5-6weeks...


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by posa_
> 
> BTW I have also commissioned Adamo on a 3pc suit (H&S 120's) and I will keep you posted on that as well. 5-6weeks...


Adamo last told me it could take up to 7 weeks so you are fortunate. Your choice of a three piece suit was also interesting since they are a bit of rarity these days - I guess that's why you go bespoke to stand apart from the crowd.

I keenly look forward to reading your comments when you get your suit.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by posa_
> 
> Sure, I will.
> 
> Charles only had very thin shell buttons but I was wondering if I can get some of those thick mother of pearl buttons like the ones on Brioni, RLPL and Zegna couture.


When I last asked Charles about this he told me he can get them in for you if you want. I suggest ringing him up and asking him.


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

I have checked out Argy's today. His place didn't seem like a very good tailoring place as he was selling lots of casual stuff and some cheap suits.

Would I be safe to let him alter my Brioni jackets? especially complicated alterations like repositioning sleeves, etc?


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by posa_
> 
> I have checked out Argy's today. His place didn't seem like a very good tailoring place as he was selling lots of casual stuff and some cheap suits.
> 
> Would I be safe to let him alter my Brioni jackets? especially complicated alterations like repositioning sleeves, etc?


Sorry for the delay - I hadn't noticed the question. Yes Argy's is a simple shop. However, he does make bespoke suits - I have seen him bring customers back for a second fitting. How expensive a shop looks and how good the tailor is often match poorly. My new Brioni suit came back from in great condition. I have also had a velvet jacket altered by him flawlessly - velvet is extremely hard to work with - and it was spotless. The advice previously given out on this forum is to always take an old jacket that needs a bit of modification to a new tailor first to test the waters. If you are still unsure you could check out who Harrolds use to modify their suits. Perhaps pay them a visit and ask while you are there. Let me know if you do.


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback Sator.
It does not seem that Argy is a tailor but uses couple of tailors in house. In any case, since he was highly recommended, I will try him with simple stuff.
Cheers


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

Don't want to sound like a know it all - but Argy is not a tailor, he infacts employs people to do the work.

As for bespoke work - he is not a Bespoke tailor - they do offer some basic suits etc for sale which have been made on the premises.

All my Brioni suits have been tailored at John Cutler & Vince Maloney - yes they are expesive, but so are the suits.

FYI - I used to work in the Rag-Trade... We stayed well clear of Alan, unless it was a basic job needed in a rush.

Good luck.


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## assassino (Mar 29, 2006)

Q. "Do Australians wear suits?"

A. "Yes, when they are standing in the dock!"


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## rhapsody692000 (May 12, 2006)

Hi, I've recently gone to a *Matthew Lawrence bespoke *  situated in William St (Paddington) to enquire about making a bespoke suit. Matthew Lawrence seemed like a decent guy although he is only 27 yrs of age. Anyone know anything about him?
He has also recommended this for canvas: I use high quality German fusing/ a English canvas which is hand canvased for a half canvas construction

Any opinions on that?
Cheers, appreciate it


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

*Matthew Lawrence Bespoke*

Funny, this should come up - I recently visited his w/shop to see & feel what he has...

Simple answer - no...

Has the idea, but not really the finish that deserves "Bespoke"...


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

PhatG said:


> Funny, this should come up - I recently visited his w/shop to see & feel what he has...
> 
> Simple answer - no...
> 
> Has the idea, but not really the finish that deserves "Bespoke"...


Can you be more specific, PhatG?

Aus


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## rhapsody692000 (May 12, 2006)

*Matthew Lawrence Tailors*

Cheers for the heads up, I was very seriously contemplating getting a suit done by matthew lawrence. Will check out the other recommendations


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## rhapsody692000 (May 12, 2006)

*Brioni in Sydney?*

PhatG

Your feedback has been most helpful, indeed, I have definitely decided not to go to Matthew Lawrence for a bespoke suit. 
Was just wondering about Brioni and Kiton suits (MTM), where would be the best places in Sydney to look for them since you mentioned to avoid Harrolds.
I do definitely agree they feel a bit smarmy.

Cheers


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

*Response*

@ Aus_MD
- After wearing MTM Brioni, MTM Corneliani, MTM Zegna, OTR Caruso you begin to get a feal that Matthew Lawrance can not achieve yet. Also, his eye is still un-trained when it comes to style & balance. The only description I can politely say is that his suits looked like what the Rugby League players would wear to an awards night (collars over lapel, 4 buttons, & boxy)... Not a good image... Very similar to the suits from 'Skin Deep' on Elizabeth St.
- Finally, Matthew did mention that he has been trained on Saville Row?
- Classic example where 'Bespoke' is wrongly used.

@ rhapsody692000
- Unfortunately whilst in Sydney, Harrolds is the only place for MTM Brioni or Kiton... Have you tried a Kiton or Brioni suit before? They are both very different in style & feel.
- If you are one of the forunate ones that can go OTR, then do it...
- Otherwise, Harrolds is fine, just be very specific!!! & PATIENT unless Brioni or Kiton have your details on file. Brioni has my details, though I still won't trust Harrolds (yes, I am obsessive in my details)
- For me, the MTM is the only option as Sydney never stocks many suits in my size OTR (& I'm a 36R!). Nearly every suit I try in Sydney is either too boxy or too long?

Shocking as it may seem - whilst in Sydney, I would go to the Zegna store for a MTM. The price is good & they have a good fabric selection. I'm actually on the Zegna option for my next round of suits (for my wedding as well as for work - banking). Also they will be consistent & have presence in every city I frequent.

Good luck.


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## rhapsody692000 (May 12, 2006)

*Brioni*

Thanks PhatG for the all the feedback and information. I am only just starting a new professional career in advertising and have not had the resources to get a good suit till now. 
With regards to Brioni OTR, are they available at Harrolds? And what is your recommendation, Adamo bespoke or Brioni OTR, I have a budget of about $2000 AUD.
I quite like Zegna but the Satorial range don't seem to fit me too well. Will give Brioni a go.

And one more thing, what did you mean about saville row and confusions with 'bespoke', I've only ever visited Kilgour on Saville Row so I don't know if the rest of the tailors on the row are true bespoke.

Thanks for everything!
Cheers


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

*Response*

@ rhapsody692000

- Harrolds will have a selection of OTR Brioni & others in-store. Best to try & find your style. Then wait for their sales (upto 50% off). Whilst in there have a look at the Caruso line. I personally wear Caruso & MTM Corneliani daily (for fear of an accident etc) & save the Brioni for every other day or biggger meetings where I am in front of CF & CE O's etc.

- FYI - A OTR Brioni suit will start at AU$4000 (depending on the fabric).

- as for 'bespoke' & 'Saville Row', there is a lot of info on this forum already. But in a short:
BESPOKE - was a term meaning that the tailor has been spoken of/for by another client. No advertising or marketing as the Bespoke tailor is a gentlemen's secret & in time will become his confidante. As it is up to the tailor/cutter to make you look your best by hiding your worst...

- Savill Row is a street (as you have visited) where the bespoke & English tailoring started - Saville Row style is very different to Italian & American.

- This being your first serious suit, I would take the time & try them all! Most importantly, you have to connect with the tailor or in this case the brands vision (Brioni, Kiton, Zegna, etc) - you being in advertising should understand the importance of BRANDS...

Good luck.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

PhatG said:


> ...Harrolds is fine, just be very specific!!! & PATIENT unless Brioni or Kiton have your details on file. Brioni has my details, though I still won't trust Harrolds (yes, I am obsessive in my details)


I agree, smarmy though the service may be, it also depends on who is working there when you go. That said, the level of knowledge of the guys in the store is pretty mediocre. I knew more about suits than they (which is honestly not saying much), largely thanks to AAAC with its gurus like Manton writing their incredibly knowledgable posts as well as the books I have read. It is obvious that they are a fairly poorly trained bunch with little or no tailoring expertise. It constrasted markedly to the gentleman in the Brioni flagship store in Rome, who really knew his stuff. Indeed, the salesmen in any reputable menswear store in Italy really impressed me with their knowledge compared to salemen in Australia. Harrolds do offer a MTM Brioni or Kiton service but I would advise extreme caution in allowing the guys on the floor to measure you up.

If you can afford to pay the sort of prices they are asking for Brioni or Kiton RTW/MTM, may I strongly suggest that you rather go to someone like Adamo Marone, where the tailor who makes your suit is also the one who measures you out. With suits fit is everything. The advice that a really experienced pro like Adamo can give you is priceless. Remember too, that a bespoke suit from Adamo or John Cutler will be 100% handmade, whereas a MTM from Kiton will be partly machine made and hand finished. From Adamo, a Super 220s suit from Adamo will also cost you around $10000 AUD, whereas you will pay more than twice that just to get a Kiton badge on a suit (for a MTM suit that is). I posted a reply to another thread bragging about how reasonably priced bespoke was here in Sydney and the Americans were highly envious. The reason a Kiton MTM costs more than bespoke is less because of quality than because of the exchange rate with the Euro and because of you are paying for Kiton's advertising.

Perhaps you might want to start a new thread asking advice about Kiton/Brioni MTM vs local bespoke omitting any mention about Sydney in the title so as to invite non-Australians participation in this discussion.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

If your budget is $2000 and this is your first serious suit I recommend that you visit Joe Cutrone. Joe will make you a good suit that fits well, and you will be dealing with somebody who has been in the business for 60 years - he started with his father in Calabria as a boy. 

I started off by going down the Zegna and Brioni MTM route but to be honest the fit was never as good as the fit of a few cheap suits that I had made in Hong Kong.

Aus


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Sorry, I missed the fact that your budget was around $2000 AUD. As has already been pointed out Brioni ready to wear is already well beyond your budget. I personally have never seen a Brioni suit under $5000. A Kiton ready to wear will cost around $7000. Even Borrelli costs around $4800 AUD. If it is made to measure then it will cost substantially more than that.

However, Adamo Marrone told me recently that he can do a basic suit for a minimum of $1800 AUD. It will lack many of the bells and whistles (super fine woolen fabrics, hand picking, functional sleeve buttons etc) but it will beat a ready to wear suit hands down any day because of the fit and eloquent silhouette. It would still be a fantastic first serious suit. Yes, check Joe Cutrone out too (although he is unfamiliar to me) - maybe you will get a suit with a better fabric for a similar price.


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## rhapsody692000 (May 12, 2006)

*Joe Cutrone*

Hey, took some of the suggestions from the forum and went to check out Joe Cutrone at Edgecliff.
Can't say I really connected with Joe although admittedly, it was only a very brief chat. He gave the impression that he knew what he was doing.
He was also proud to show me the suits he was making for Johnny Eales although I don't think that was such a good endorsement. Don't know about you guys but Johnny's not exactly the poster child for elegance and style.
Let me know what you guys think.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

Actually, having met John Eales a few times I can tell you that his suits are well cut and made. Your criticism could also be made of John Cutler, if you were to use John Howard as an example of his work. 

I think that you need to have a good idea of what you want a bespoke tailor to do, and be able to communicate that to him. If you go into any tailor's workshop most of the suits being made will look fairly unimaginative - not because of the tailor's lack of style but because of the client's conservative tastes.

If you want a low cost version of Kiton or Brioni, get to know what elements of their style and fabrics are attractive to you and get that replicated. In regard to fabric, Joe favours H&S but will be able to get virtually anything for you.

Aus


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## rhapsody692000 (May 12, 2006)

*Joe Cutrone*



Aus_MD said:


> Actually, having met John Eales a few times I can tell you that his suits are well cut and made. Your criticism could also be made of John Cutler, if you were to use John Howard as an example of his work.
> 
> I think that you need to have a good idea of what you want a bespoke tailor to do, and be able to communicate that to him. If you go into any tailor's workshop most of the suits being made will look fairly unimaginative - not because of the tailor's lack of style but because of the client's conservative tastes.
> 
> ...


Aus MD, that is actually a good point you made about John Howard and John Eales. I should remember that I am stepping into a tailor not a showroom. I have gone to Adamo as well, and I guess I connected with him better to a certain extent, so I guess my new suit will be made by him. Thanks for the feedback and advice, they have been most helpful. By the way, what do H&S stand for? Thanks guys!

Cheers


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

rhapsody692000 said:


> Aus MD, that is actually a good point you made about John Howard and John Eales. I should remember that I am stepping into a tailor not a showroom. I have gone to Adamo as well, and I guess I connected with him better to a certain extent, so I guess my new suit will be made by him. Thanks for the feedback and advice, they have been most helpful. By the way, what do H&S stand for? Thanks guys!
> 
> Cheers


The relationship that you have with your tailor is as critical as the other elements of tailoring i.e his skills, your style and the materials- so if you have developed a rapport with Adamo that's great. H&S = Holland and Sherry a cloth merchant.

Aus


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

*Response*

Never under-estimate the importance with connecting with your tailor, more important is the tailor's ability to understand/interpret you.

e.g. I always wanted my first 'serious' suite from John Cutler, as it turned out:
- Karl & I had more in common, this made my visit's all the more enjoyable as we were able to discuss 'life-style' questions (Italian cars, bikes & collectible watches)
- in turn, I trusted Karl with all matters regarding fabric & cut.

Good luck & God Speed


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

rhapsody692000 said:


> I have gone to Adamo as well, and I guess I connected with him better to a certain extent, so I guess my new suit will be made by him.


I am actually quite glad you decided on Adamo. One of the reason is that if you have your first serious suit made by him, he will then have your measurements, and when things progress in your career a bit more and you decide you need another suit things will be easier. You will already have a working relationship with him and your tastes will have matured more too. All of this will help towards eventually put together your dream suit.


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

*BE AWARE SYDNEY-SIDERS*

As recommended by Sator some time ago, I have taken one of my bespoke suits to Argy's (surry hills) for taking in side seams on the trousers and repositioning sleeves of the jacket (the pitch was a little off). The reason I took it to Argy is that the suit was made in Melbourne and I didnt want to travel to Melborne for the job.

Anyway, the chinese tailors (alterations people) at Argy's have totally messed up the suit by : 1) making the trousers too small (tighter than jeans) and cutting off any access seam allowances making them impossible to be fixed 2) cutting off seams on the shoulders also making them too small, again, impossible to fix.

It took them 4 weeks to messe it up and when I went there to pick them up, both sleeves were unattached and the trousers were in a state that I have never seen before.

What is more fascianting is Argy's attitide and response to my reaction. I even paid him for his job but I feel that I shouldnt have.

I am not even going to mention what he said and what he did to me cuase some of you might not even believe me but I strongly urge you not to take stuff to him as his skills and knowledge very elementary and he is not capable of handling any tailoring/alterations jobs. Also a bad mannered con man, IMO.

I hope the people do not get wrong ideas about this post as I am only trying to warn people not to make the mistake I made (costed me over$4000)

BTW, Sator, this is by no means to blame you I still do appreciate your recommedations... and Charles' shirts and Adamo's 3pc suit came out beautifully. However I much prefer Bijan's suits to Adamo's (Adamo's was about $1000 cheaper)...


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

testing...


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## PhatG (Apr 4, 2006)

posa said:


> As recommended by Sator some time ago, I have taken one of my bespoke suits to Argy's (surry hills) for taking in side seams on the trousers and repositioning sleeves of the jacket (the pitch was a little off). The reason I took it to Argy is that the suit was made in Melbourne and I didnt want to travel to Melborne for the job.
> 
> Anyway, the chinese tailors (alterations people) at Argy's have totally messed up the suit by : 1) making the trousers too small (tighter than jeans) and cutting off any access seam allowances making them impossible to be fixed 2) cutting off seams on the shoulders also making them too small, again, impossible to fix.
> 
> ...


Sad too hear - but like I had mentioned earlier Alan is not someone I would trust - even with jeans...

The fact that fashion shops in Sydney only use him when in desperation says a lot...


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

I am truly horrified to hear this story and feel myself partly responsible for ever having recommended Argy's.  I went there as he was recommended to me by a retailer and have personally never had problems with him. However, this makes me think seriously about ever using his services again myself although I am about to pick up another RTW suit that has been altered by him. 

BTW I have tried out Vince Maloney at PhatG's suggestion. Michael at the shop who pinned me up was certainly very professional at picking up on details that would have been oblivious to many other tailors. They are much pricier but hearing this appalling travesty makes me wonder if you 'get what you pay for'. And thank you for at least sharing this warning with the rest of us.


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

I have learnt a great lesson: Never to take bespoke garments to no one but to bespoke tailors...

I have decided to stick with Sydney based tailors for this resaon.

I am now thinking of trying out Joe Cutrone but the jackets he made felt and seemed very heavy and hard. I think he uses heavier canvass and also uses some material thats stuck onto the inside of the cloth (in between the canvass and the wool. I cant figure out what it is but it wasnt fusing). Does anyone experienced Joe's jackets and know if he could do a very "soft" jacket?


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

Posa, I have not had a jacket made by Joe, only trousers. I am sure he will be able to make a softer jacket for you as I have seen an unconstructed jacket that he had made, which was very soft. I am very happy with the trousers he has made for me.

Aus


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## posa (Sep 28, 2005)

Thnaks Aus MD


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## Samuel (Jan 27, 2006)

*Alterations*

Gentlemen,

Hoping that at this late stage i still may be able to help in terms of alterations and tailoring and also to answer the question about whom Harrolds use for alterations from an earlier post.

Harrolds use and I wholeheartedly recommend Hayel & Son which is in the Gowings Building (Level 4)

He exclusively alters all the Caruso, Brioni, Pal Zileri Suits etc sold by that shop and Versace domestically will only allow their garments to be altered by him.

I have used Hayel to amend a number of my ready to wear Ede's, Gieves, P. Smith's and a Caruso and the workmanship is faultless. (Loosing weight can be costly!)

Hayel is perhaps the most expensive tailor i have come across but have never been disappointed.

Hope i'm not too late to assist


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Samuel said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Hoping that at this late stage i still may be able to help in terms of alterations and tailoring and also to answer the question about whom Harrolds use for alterations from an earlier post.
> 
> ...


How do prices compare with Vince Maloney? Also you know if they will do create functional sleeve buttons and what they charge for this? In fact does anyone create functional sleeve buttons for a reasonable price?


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## Samuel (Jan 27, 2006)

Sator,

Hayel has been solely altering clothing for some time and therefore cannot really be compared to Vince Maloney. 

I'm sure that he could create the functional sleeve buttons that you are looking for as he altered some working buttons superbly on two of my suits. 

I find his workmanship excellent and he is also very personable and does take the time to discuss suit construction. During the Harrolds sale time, it is fascinating to visit his workroom and see the various Brionis et al. apart and see how well (or otherwise) the suits have been put together. 

It always amuses me to see the look of disdain on his face when individuals bring in their recently purchased OTR Armanis and their insistence at how careful he must be in altering their "works of art". 

I would recommend just dropping past his workroom next time you are on Market St to ask.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Samuel said:


> Sator,
> 
> Hayel has been solely altering clothing for some time and therefore cannot really be compared to Vince Maloney.
> 
> ...


Thanks. It sounds like it might be worthwhile giving him a try. I will be interested to see what he charges for things. That said, I am finding Vince Maloney to be excellent and so far hard to beat, so it will be interesting seeing how they compare. I might try taking a new blazer to Hayel to see how he fairs. The disdain for the Armanis is highly reassuring.


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## Samuel (Jan 27, 2006)

*Vince Maloney/ Matthew Lawrence Bespoke*

Sator,

I'm interested, have you always liked Vince Maloney? Is it their selection, attention to detail or perhaps the feel of the store that most attracts you?

I'm curious as i often walk past and find that their window displays are very much "the 1000 different ways to dress a 3 button Kent and Curwin Suit".

Please don't think i am demeaning in this message, simply curious about the store and keen to hear your thoughts.

Interestingly, if anyone else is reading this thread, i too would agree with PhatG and his assessment of Matthew Lawrence Bespoke. My bespoke experience in Paddington was a sole measurement around my waist and a suit 6 weeks later.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

*Vince Maloney*



Samuel said:


> Sator,
> 
> I'm interested, have you always liked Vince Maloney? Is it their selection, attention to detail or perhaps the feel of the store that most attracts you?
> 
> ...


Sorry, I have no experience yet with them as a bespoke tailor of suits or shirts. I have only used their service as an alteration tailor. That said they seemed highly experienced and the staff well trained. They picked up on the fact that I have a slightly dropped shoulder on the left and one waist that sits higher. They knew that one assymetrical physical feature will run through the rest of the body and went looking for it. They knew that you should show a bit of sleeve and without prompting them pinned me up to add a perfect degree of waist suppression in the coat. In other word they show a thorough knowledge of all those basics little things that you expect of a real pro.

That's why they have my new Kiton suit. They were all over it immediately to check out the construction and did what every pro does - look underneath the collar (the suit maker's equivalent of looking underneath the bonnet). They immediately picked up on the solid old world hand-made construction of the coat.

The gentleman there who appeared to be the cutter for their suits, seemed to have a bit of a pet peeve about double breasted coats - which I prefer, though he apparently systematically tends to disuade all of the customers away from them. Michael however, quietly suggested that I ignore him, as DB coats obviously do suit my physique! Otherwise I would need to inspect an example of a bespoke suit made by them to really get an idea of what their work was like.

As far as bespoke shirts go, I know that they charge twice as much as Charles Nakhle. So I'm not in in a hurry to change shirt maker, especially since I know now that Charles is a one time professional colleague of Alex Kabbaz's. I have a good working relationship with Charles and enjoy going there to chat and look through his swatches.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Samuel said:


> Interestingly, if anyone else is reading this thread, i too would agree with PhatG and his assessment of Matthew Lawrence Bespoke. My bespoke experience in Paddington was a sole measurement around my waist and a suit 6 weeks later.


You are kidding aren't you? He only measured your waist???  If so then this is - at best - a MTM service and clearly NOT bespoke.


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## Samuel (Jan 27, 2006)

Sator,

Thank you for the information about Vince Maloney and the attention to detail they display. It is great such institutions still exist. 

I agree entirely with the Matthew Lawrence "MTM service". It is disappointing and misleading that one can hang a sign on the window and label themselves 'bespoke'. If i recall it was fairly prominent display in William St. 

Interestly, i drove past the store on the weekend and saw he had displayed outside on the wall a chalk board with "why go bespoke with me" or words to that effect. 

Perhaps for the benefit of those in Sydney that subscribe to AA, i could try to place a couple of images of his finished product online for critique?

It is not a suit that i am enamoured with so i would hope that no one would hold back in their assessment. 

Do let me know how you get on with the Kiton.


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

Hey guys, any chance of posting up some photos of Adamo's work? heh


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## Peter Van Petegem (Sep 26, 2006)

who is the gentleman in Rushcutters Bay. I believe he was in the Fin Review liftour about 24 monght ago. Jewish gentleman, quite old, is he still cutting?


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## rumblingtummy (Nov 17, 2006)

Hey Sydney siders!

I have a black tie optional event to attend in mid December and wish to purchase a nice shirt and tie in Sydney (although I could order the tie or ebay one).



Sator said:


> As for a genuine top class bespoke shirt then make sure you check out Charles Nahkle in Parramatta.


I'm planning to pick up a shirt from Charles and take it with me to Hong Kong for comparison purposes and so I don't rock up to the tailor with a dodgy shirt! 

What would the approximate turn around time for a first shirt from Charles be?

Rochefort appears to be highly regarded in this thread. The AUD$190 to $250 price range would be my only concern ... although I would much rather purchase one quality tie than several lesser quality ties.

Also, excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between a "luxury" tie and a "six-fold" tie?

What other viable alternatives are there for the tie?

Thanks in advance! =)


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

rumblingtummy said:


> Hey Sydney siders!
> 
> I'm planning to pick up a shirt from Charles and take it with me to Hong Kong for comparison purposes and so I don't rock up to the tailor with a dodgy shirt!


Charles can make you a shirt in a week if you specifically ask him to. If he is busy it can take just a bit longer. Just make sure you specify when you need it.


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## rumblingtummy (Nov 17, 2006)

Sator said:


> Charles can make you a shirt in a week if you specifically ask him to. If he is busy it can take just a bit longer. Just make sure you specify when you need it.


Thanks Sator, I will probably drop in over the weekend.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

rumblingtummy said:


> Thanks Sator, I will probably drop in over the weekend.


He is open only on Saturday morning.


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## rumblingtummy (Nov 17, 2006)

Sator said:


> He is open only on Saturday morning.


Thanks, you just saved me a phone call. =)


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## rumblingtummy (Nov 17, 2006)

Sator said:


> Sorry, I missed the fact that your budget was around $2000 AUD.
> 
> However, Adamo Marrone told me recently that he can do a basic suit for a minimum of $1800 AUD. It will lack many of the bells and whistles (super fine woolen fabrics, hand picking, functional sleeve buttons etc) but it will beat a ready to wear suit hands down any day because of the fit and eloquent silhouette. It would still be a fantastic first serious suit. Yes, check Joe Cutrone out too (although he is unfamiliar to me) - maybe you will get a suit with a better fabric for a similar price.


@Sator: would you be able to expand on the other bells and whistles that will be missing?

@Aus: I can't find the post, but I'm sure I read somewhere that you buy your suits from John Cutler and have casual pieces made by Joe Cutrone. May I ask you the reasoning behind this?

I'm considering staying put and using the money that would be spent on airfares, accomodation etc overseas into a bespoke suit in Sydney instead.

I guess one big advantage of that is I can have little things fixed up which is a distinct possibility with it being my first "real" suit ...

Reading through the thread, the best options for a bespoke suit in Sydney appear to be John Cutler, Joe Cutrone, Adamo Marrone and possibly Vince Maloney. So I'll do a whirlwind day trip to each of them when I have a greater understanding of what I'm looking for and hopefully click with at least one of them ...


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

rumblingtummy said:


> @Sator: would you be able to expand on the other bells and whistles that will be missing?
> 
> @Aus: I can't find the post, but I'm sure I read somewhere that you buy your suits from John Cutler and have casual pieces made by Joe Cutrone. May I ask you the reasoning behind this?
> 
> ...


A basic suit is mostly machine made. That is all. As for the expensive super wools you will hopefully know better after reading old post and will know to avoid them anyway.

As for why Aus_MD only goes to John Cutler for his suits I imagine you will learn why when you ask Mr Cutler about his prices. All I will say is that if you were planning to fly to Bankok first class and stay in the suite of a five star hotel you will be getting your money's worth. He is Savile Row trained and has his business in the CBD as well as being the third generation in a dynasty of bespoke tailors. He has customers who order $50 000 vicuna coats from him. The cut is a typical Savile Row cut - horsehair canvas construction, military shoulders, drape in the chest/shoulders, moderate waist suppression and a bit of flair on the skirt.

Another tailor who has more sensible prices you should shortlist is Sam Disano. Charles Nahkle will have his business card as he recommends Sam who has a _tiny_ shop on the back streets of Parramatta a few minutes walk from Charles' shop. Sam used to have a larger bespoke tailoring business on Hunter St in the city until he retired but now runs a little hobby shop as he says tailoring is his hobby and he would go mad if all he did was play golf all day. Charles has noted that Sam's customers have immaculately fitting suits. Sam has _decades_ of experience and is very good at cutting a pattern right first time. His cut tends to be very Roman ie a Brioni type of silhouette, well structured (Sam prefers horsehair for the canvas), chiselled shoulders, narrowish lapels, and lean-and-clean overall. This is further accentuated by the sleek fit that Charles notes as being a feature of Sam's work.

Sam has many customers who have followed him from Hunter St, some of them ex-Cutler customers who find him as good or better - for fit as well as price. Sam has told me that he thinks that back in John Cutler's father's day the garments were of much higher standard than those currently seen carrying the Cutler name. Then again John Cutler told me himself that his father always used to say that "some swear by me, some swear at me".

As far as the quality of bespoke tailoring in Sydney I can tell you that Adamo Marrone has told me that he has had altered too many a Savile Row made suit in his shop in which the workmanship has been frightfully shoddy. Interestingly Adamo grew up in a place a few minutes from the Brioni workshop where all their suits are made but despite this I would say his style is actually very Neapolitan in a drape cut of a soft construction similar to what you expect from Rubinacci or Attolini. Even his most basic suits have more shape and a lovelier roll of the lapels than _anything_ I have ever seen on a Kiton Napoli.

But yes, do your rounds and see who you 'click' with. The fact that you can go for multiple fittings in Sydney is something definitely in your favour.


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## rumblingtummy (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks Sator. It is great to have someone like you on these fora with so much knowledge pertaining to the bespoke scene in Sydney. Your feedback and information provided is very much appreciated!

Some very useful information there, and a "sensibly priced" tailor to boot! =)

Have you had anything made/altered by Sam Disano yourself?



Sator said:


> Sam has many customers who have followed him from Hunter St, some of them ex-Cutler customers who find him as good or better - for fit as well as price.


Is that Charles' opinion or that of friends of yours, or your own perhaps? I must admit that I am a little curious as to why Sam's name has never come up before. (Don't take it the wrong way or anything, I'm not questioning you or anything at all! I'm just a little confused!)

To cut to the chase and help me work out my options, two questions. Any answers would really help me out, so thanks! =)

1) What kind of price ranges are we talking about for the aforementioned tailors? (Obviously, my budget has limitations!)
2) Once I have tried the OTR suits available at Harrolds and the Zegna store and worked out my preferences such as those listed at , would I possess enough knowledge to go talk to the bespoke tailors being new to this whole thing?


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

rumblingtummy said:


> I must admit that I am a little curious as to why Sam's name has never come up before.


Because I never brought it up before.

I introduced the Sydney forumites to Charles Nahkle and now I am mentioning Sam Disano - as an option.

As for prices I suggest that you should go inquire yourself. It depends on your choice of fabrics and whether you ask for extra handwork.

Happy hunting!


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## rumblingtummy (Nov 17, 2006)

Sator said:


> Because I never brought it up before.
> 
> I introduced the Sydney forumites to Charles Nahkle and now I am mentioning Sam Disano - as an option.
> 
> As for prices I suggest that you should go inquire yourself. It depends on your choice of fabrics and whether you ask for extra handwork.


I dropped by Charles' place just then. He was very friendly and helpful, especially in explaining my options and what suited me. I had no idea there could be so many things wrong with my current shirt!

I asked him for his opinion on bespoke tailors in the area. He said in terms of quality, construction and cut etc, Sam Disano was very good and the best in the area, although he was unsure about the prices. He did however make a passing comment that they were out of his price range! I went by Disano's shop as well but unfortunately it closed at 1pm.

He mentioned his suits are made by Sam Hasham, down the road. Sam measures the suits himself and supervises the making of the suits on his premise (whereas Disano sends them somewhere). Charles said that a fully canvassed suit with Zegna type materials costs about $1800 from Sam Hasham.

Hasham Clothing
51 Phillip St Parramatta NSW, 2150
Ph: (02) 9635 7629

In greater Sydney, Charles believes Adamo is the best. He thinks that Cutler is good, but thinks very highly of the suits he has seen from Adamo.

I ended up having a 2x2 100 italian white twill shirt ordered for $185. Semi-cutaway collar, dart (Charles suggested I give it a try), no pleats and french cuffs ("french cuffs of course" he said, he seems to like those!) Looking forward to seeing how it turns out in 2-3 weeks.

Charles did also mention that the *prices would be increasing* after christmas to a *little over $200* since they are making very little money.

Charles had asked me how I had heard of him and I mentioned this website - like several of his other customers according to Charles. Whilst I was there, someone from Adelaide called asking for information and some swatches to be sent - "he was from the internet too, it's a new revolution" Charles smiled.


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## Khoa (Aug 20, 2005)

Yeah, that guy from Adelaide was me. I spoke to Charles today. Will be picking up a shirt from him to see what all the fuss is about.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

The new revolution is the one I started on AAAC since I introduced forum members to Charles. I have been trying to encourage Charles to take part here but he says he is too busy and the kids hog the computer at home. Charles says he grew up around shirts and has dreams of writing book on the history of shirtmaking. All AAAC members should do likewise and encourage him to post here.


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## rumblingtummy (Nov 17, 2006)

*Shoes?*

A little off topic, but just wondering: where do you guys buy shoes in Sydney?


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## Newton (Oct 6, 2006)

RT you may be interested to know that someone at styleforum.net has just started a thread on hand-made shoes in Sydney.


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## rumblingtummy (Nov 17, 2006)

Newton said:


> RT you may be interested to know that someone at styleforum.net has just started a thread on hand-made shoes in Sydney.


Thanks, I'll check it out! =)

I dropped by Ferragamo today, they said all their shoes from the Tramezza line are sold out and they probably won't have new stock until January/February :/

This thread had a useful link to AE's as well: https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=18867

Might drop by and see how the park avenue fits.


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## greggo (Jan 30, 2007)

*Time to weigh in...*

OK, so my arrival at this thread is a little late but i may have something interesting to say...

i decided to get a bespoke suit made here in sydney a few weeks ago. and when i say "bespoke" i mean "bespoke". not made to measure, not tailored and certainly not off the peg - full bespoke! 2 or 3 fittings, exactly what i wanted in terms of style and definitely my choice of cloth.

i had dreadful trouble finding a pattern cutter. any pattern cutter. i moved to sydney from london two years ago and no-one i knew here had had a suit made or even altered locally.

as it was i wish i had taken a look at this thread a few weeks ago but never mind.

after trying a few awful-looking tailors in the CBD (up until today i'd never heard of john cutler, dammit!) i dropped in to see Matthew Lawrence.

Matthew definitely talks the talk. he appeared to understand what i wanted (soft english cut, very savile row, comfortable but definitely *not* italian). he was also open to my views on cuffs, lapels, waist and all the rest. and he definitely took more than just a waist measurement!

i ended up going with him, ordering a bespoke suit for about AUD 2k (seems cheap... we'll see what the quality is like!). i've just had my first fitting and i'm cautiously optimistic. he's young, true, but he also appears to want to get the right finish.

i'm a bit worried about the fact that he goes for a half- floating canvas, half- fused jacket, but he's convinced me that a full floating canvas coat would be too hot here in sunny sydney.

i've insisted on the usual details, working cuffs, braces trousers, stitched lapels and the rest.

the whole thing is supposed to be ready in just three weeks from now - a tight timetable that i've held him to, for various reasons, but hopefully he'll make it!

the only feedback i've received on him is what's previously been mentioned here in the forum. not exactly positive and it might have affected my decision had i read the posts before i ordered the suit. having said that, it doesn't sound like the only customer to post here actually got the full bespoke service. of course, when i ordered i knew it would be a bit of a foray into the unknown so for now i'll remain optimistic.

i'll let you know how it goes.

greggo


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

greggo said:


> i ended up going with him, ordering a bespoke suit for about AUD 2k (seems cheap... we'll see what the quality is like!). i've just had my first fitting and i'm cautiously optimistic. he's young, true, but he also appears to want to get the right finish.
> 
> i'm a bit worried about the fact that he goes for a half- floating canvas, half- fused jacket, but he's convinced me that a full floating canvas coat would be too hot here in sunny sydney.
> 
> the whole thing is supposed to be ready in just three weeks from now - a tight timetable that i've held him to, for various reasons, but hopefully he'll make it!


You do know that John Cutler is Savile Row trained don't you?

I am terribly concerned about the claim that a full floating canvas would be "too warm for Sydney". What utter rubbish. Fusing results in a glued front - which breathes even less and would be even hotter! The Neapolitans are masters at making summer suits for the hottest of weather - and you would never, never get a Neapolitan tailor saying anything like that.

The other thing that is of grave concern is the fact he can get it all done in a mere 3 weeks. A proper bespoke suit takes 60 hours or more to make and anyone that can get a suit done so quickly arouses the strongest of suspicions. The 2k price is also that something which can only be offered on a machine made suit. One or two other tailors in town offer a bespoke suit for that price but always fully machine made - without any fusing employed at all, suggesting that 2k is too much to pay for a semi-fused lounge suit.


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## greggo (Jan 30, 2007)

sator: like i said in my original post, i wasn't aware of the existence of john cutler until after i'd ordered the suit - i'll know for next time!

as for your concerns, you're absolutely right and i share the same worries. his off-the-peg stuff looks ok but we'll just have to see how the 'bespoke' comes out.

fingers crossed, eh?


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## meister (Oct 29, 2005)

*Hayel Saad Gowings Buildings*



Samuel said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Hoping that at this late stage i still may be able to help in terms of alterations and tailoring and also to answer the question about whom Harrolds use for alterations from an earlier post.
> 
> ...


A top bloke and loves his job and the whole family are wonderful to customers and professional. Good coffee (espresso) from Md for regulars!


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## EndZone (Jan 8, 2006)

greggo said:


> sator: like i said in my original post, i wasn't aware of the existence of john cutler until after i'd ordered the suit - i'll know for next time!
> 
> as for your concerns, you're absolutely right and i share the same worries. his off-the-peg stuff looks ok but we'll just have to see how the 'bespoke' comes out.
> 
> fingers crossed, eh?


Just out of curiosity, how did the suit turn out?


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## T4phage (Nov 12, 2003)

Sator said:


> The new revolution is the one I started on AAAC since I introduced forum members to Charles. I have been trying to encourage Charles to take part here but he says he is too busy and the kids hog the computer at home. Charles says he grew up around shirts and has dreams of writing book on the history of shirtmaking. All AAAC members should do likewise and encourage him to post here.


What "Revolution"? The word implies something groundbreaking, but I don't see the 'revolution' that you started.

Btw: your mentioned Adamo Marrone on this and other fora, and said that his coats are softer and have a better roll than your Kiton, yet the ones displayed on his website: look as stiff as a board with tons of padding. eg:


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

T4phage said:


> What "Revolution"? The word implies something groundbreaking, but I don't see the 'revolution' that you started.
> 
> Btw: your mentioned Adamo Marrone on this and other fora, and said that his coats are softer and have a better roll than your Kiton, yet the ones displayed on his website: look as stiff as a board with tons of padding. eg:


The 'revolution' is that a my shirtmaker went from being an obscure shirtmaker running a struggling business in the outer Western suburbs of Sydney to one which a lot of satisfied forumites go to. The expression 'revolution' was Charles Nakhle's own. It was a big breakthrough for him.

All of my coats from Adamo have insignificant amounts of padding compared to my RTW Kiton which is grotesquely padded by comparison. As with all tailors, whether Neapolitan or from Biella like Adamo, he will adjust the amount of padding. Some coats will have more structure - others less. Big deal. It is all part of the bespoke experience.


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## T4phage (Nov 12, 2003)

Sator said:


> The 'revolution' is that a my shirtmaker went from being an obscure shirtmaker running a struggling business in the outer Western suburbs of Sydney to one which a lot of satisfied forumites go to. The expression 'revolution' was Charles Nakhle's own. It was a big breakthrough for him.
> 
> All of my coats from Adamo have insignificant amounts of padding compared to my RTW Kiton which is grotesquely padded by comparison. As with all tailors, whether Neapolitan or from Biella like Adamo, he will adjust the amount of padding. Some coats will have more structure - others less. Big deal. It is all part of the bespoke experience.


Thank you for clearing that up. As for Kiton being 'grotesquely' padded, I have yet to see a model from them with as much padding as the pictures above. Indeed the amount of padding is 'part of the bespoke experience', but then again, not all tailors will do a totally empty shoulder.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

The trouble is that if you look at my Kiton coat carefully, you can see the outlines of the edges of the preformed padding from the outside - just like an American football player's shoulder padding. Adamo only puts in a whisp of padding on _my_ coats by comparison.

You are however perfectly right: tailors who put _absolutely nothing_ at all in - whether just at the sleeve head or otherwise - are extremely rare.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Sator said:


> Interestingly Adamo grew up in a place a few minutes from the Brioni workshop where all their suits are made but despite this I would say his style is actually very Neapolitan in a drape cut of a soft construction similar to what you expect from Rubinacci or Attolini. Even his most basic suits have more shape and a lovelier roll of the lapels than _anything_ I have ever seen on a Kiton Napoli.


This is interesting as Kiton and Attolini are both made the same way and neither has any drape while Rubinacci is made completely differently and has a ton of drape. I would think that Kiton and Attolini would be much more similar since the lapels of both are done by machine, they both are slightly padded and they are both RTW, but what would I know.

I would love to see some of your Adamo suits on as they sound very nice.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

iammatt said:


> I would love to see some of your Adamo suits on as they sound very nice.


I guess it is time that this thread had some quality pictures of Adamo Marrone bespoke suits in it. Adamo is flexible with what style he will cut. I prefer a closer fitting style with strong waist suppression. I have asked for a DB with classical wide lapels and a high 'fashion' waist. The button stance ends up being quite high as a result but with a DB coat I personally think it looks balanced and have no intention for it to be changed for the next suit.

This one was made when the weather was still scorching hot in Sydney and is a lighter (300gram) weight. The lighting ruthlessly exaggerates the wrinkles on this lighter suiting which in real life drapes much better than this, especially as I asked for heavier horsehair canvass rather than the light linen canvass that Adamo generally prefers. Of course, the suit is a darkish navy colour although to the camera it may appear midnight to blackish.

https://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=front3wi4.jpg

https://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frontfi4.jpg

https://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=backnl1.jpg

https://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=back2kr7.jpg

https://img338.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sideuh1.jpg

Medium weighted suits are coming up soon with some real heft to it.

The shirt is Charles Nakhle bespoke. Shoes are the Berkeley from EG (202 last).


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

And yes I forget to sport the pocket square for the camera.


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## T4phage (Nov 12, 2003)

Sator said:


> I guess it is time that this thread had some quality pictures of Adamo Marrone bespoke suits in it. Adamo is flexible with what style he will cut. I prefer a closer fitting style with strong waist suppression. I have asked for a DB with classical wide lapels and a high 'fashion' waist. The button stance ends up being quite high as a result but with a DB coat I personally think it looks balanced and have no intention for it to be changed for the next suit.
> 
> This one was made when the weather was still scorching hot in Sydney and is a lighter (300gram) weight. The lighting ruthlessly exaggerates the wrinkles on this lighter suiting which in real life drapes much better than this, especially as I asked for heavier horsehair canvass rather than the light linen canvass that Adamo generally prefers. Of course, the suit is a darkish navy colour although to the camera it may appear midnight to blackish.......


Now this is much much better than what he has up on his site. You should ask him to change the picture. 
This coat has a small amount of shoulder padding correct? Also, is your back more curved than usual? 
There seems to be a bit of tightness at the back-waist area. A result of your wanting a tight waist?


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

T4phage said:


> This coat has a small amount of shoulder padding correct? Also, is your back more curved than usual?
> There seems to be a bit of tightness at the back-waist area. A result of your wanting a tight waist?


The photo perhaps exaggerates a little by generating slight fish-eye angularity in a close up shot. But it is also definitely because I like strong waist suppression with a coat which follows the shape of the body through all of its curvatures. I think the natural curvature of the human spine is elegant and I prefer it shows rather than hide underneath so much drape. I know others will say it looks too this, that and the other but it's just my preference. I think a lesser tailor might have taken my preferences too literally but Adamo has left just enough drape through the chest to avoid it looking like some exaggeratedly tight coulture house affection. The result is a classical hour glass type of figure - which is what 19th century tailors strove for.


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## Khoa (Aug 20, 2005)

Sator, can you show us a photograph of the fit of the shirt?


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## schanop (May 17, 2007)

Sator,

Now I know whose coat it is. I saw this coat a few months ago when I picked up my jacket Adamo made for me. I really like and am interested in the fabric you chose for this suit.

Thank for the pic. The coat looks even better on the inteded owner.


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## Tym (Sep 29, 2007)

Hi, as a newbie to this forum I hope that I'm forgiven for any mistakes. I came across this forum when I googled "Matthew Lawrence Bespoke". I came across this quote and felt that I had to respond



Samuel said:


> Interestingly, if anyone else is reading this thread, i too would agree with PhatG and his assessment of Matthew Lawrence Bespoke. My bespoke experience in Paddington was a sole measurement around my waist and a suit 6 weeks later.


I've now got at least two suits from Matthew Lawrence in Paddington - one of which was for my wedding - and did not experience any poor service at all.

Instead I found he was very comprehensive in his measurements. Added to this was an extensive range of fabrics coupled with a very friendly way of stepping me through my choice. The end result both times has been a suit that fits very well and makes me feel like a million dollars.

I would agree with someone else who noted that Matthew is still quite a young man in the bespoke industry, but I would say this is a good thing because it means that he is often more creative and less fixed in his ways. For instance the suit I had made for my wedding (seen below) was a unique variation on tails that suited me because of my height. I think I would have felt a bit judged if I had asked for this design from a more traditional bespoke tailor.


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## Tym (Sep 29, 2007)

Greggo

You wrote


greggo said:


> we'll just have to see how the 'bespoke' comes out.


How did it come out?


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## cupid112 (Oct 14, 2007)

Hi All

If anyone is interested, i called Sam Disano the other week and he said that if you bring your own material, he can make a suit for you for $850, which seems quite reasonable. I might go see him sometime when i am back in Sydney and get a suit made. Sartor, do you know how many fittings Sam usually does.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Has anyone had any experience with Zink and Sons in Oxford St Darlinghurst? And would anyone know where to get decent alterations in Canberra?


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

cupid112 said:


> Hi All
> 
> If anyone is interested, i called Sam Disano the other week and he said that if you bring your own material, he can make a suit for you for $850, which seems quite reasonable. I might go see him sometime when i am back in Sydney and get a suit made. Sartor, do you know how many fittings Sam usually does.


He costs less and has only one fitting unless you insist on more. He also uses horrid plastic buttons and so I usually source my own.


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## ZegnaGent (Mar 4, 2008)

*My first bespoke!*



Sator said:


> He costs less and has only one fitting unless you insist on more. He also uses horrid plastic buttons and so I usually source my own.


Hi Sator,

As promised, my update on the results of ordering a suit from Nick Salanitro in North Sydney. Cost was $1800AUD including cloth, canvassing, and working buttons. This is what I got:

1) Suit itself is a navy stripe high-2-button in H&S Perennial Lite. Canvassed not fused. More structured than I'm used to, with heavier roping and waist-suppression. Nick hails from Sicily, and I wonder if that has any influence on his style...

2) Very happy overall. Fit is excellent: no strange bulges anywhere as I tend to find with my Zegna MTM suits. FINALLY, someone got the sleeve length right and I can actually show some cuff.

3) Next time round (planning a Medium gray with blue stripe), I'll see if he can do softer shoulders and more open quarters.

Very addictive experience indeed. Can't go back to RTW ever! And even MTM seems like a waste of money now! For Zegna fabrics, I'll probably pay Adamo a serious visit whenever time and cashflow permit.

Will try to post some pics soon.

Best Regards.:icon_smile:


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## MarkMarco (Jun 1, 2008)

*Tailor in Sydney*

The best tailor in Sydney is Adamo in Leichhardt. He is a true master tailor with much recognition from some of the most important in the industry. One saturday spent in Casa Adamo on Norton street talking shop and seeing the work being carried out on the premises will have you hooked on his work. See this establishment before making a decision. MM


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