# WASP (Not WASP)



## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

I suppose this happens every now and then when you "walk the dinosaur" of reactionary clothing. There have been some rumblings in parts of the tradosphere about things like geneology, bloodlines, authenticity, and other nonsense. Ralph Lauren was persona non grata for a while, but it looks like Muffy Aldrich may have taken his place.

Some days, I wonder if a goyische mob will come to strip me of my natural shoulders. As an antidote, I thought we should compile a list of notable Landsmen who have a contribution to "our thing."

In no particular order:

- The Press family
- Lisa Birnbach
- Charlie Davidson (I think?) 
- Paul Newman
- Marty and Elliot Gant
- Abe Ribicoff
- Bob & Sue Prenner
- Paul Winston
- Does Murray Rothbard count?

And of course, I have to give a local plug to Eddie Jacobs, Ken Himmelstein, and the Cohen family.

So to my fellow Landsmen, I say, L'Chaim.









Feel free to add to the list, or post lists of other ethnicities deserving a tip of the hat.


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## Spin Evans (Feb 2, 2013)

Christian made a list a couple of years back about all the Jewish TNSIL retailers. There's a bunch.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

That list would have to include thousands of men in smaller communities across the country who've sent young men out the door lookin' good since at least the late 1800s. My own addition would be Mr. Leon Sugar of Lumberton, NC. If WASPs had been allowed to dress themselves, who knows what "Ivy" would look like?


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

phyrpowr said:


> If WASPs had been allowed to dress themselves, who knows what "Ivy" would look like?


This might be a "chicken-and-egg" question, but did the WASPs just wear what the Jewish tailors provided them? Or did the Jewish tailors provide the garments the WASPs wanted?


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

?

Goyische? Landsman? L'Chaim? "Dress British think Yiddish" in a forum about American Ivy League style?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I was raised Catholic in the Midwest, so I'm not sure what to make of any of it.


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## Bin'Zev (Sep 19, 2014)

I need that button. It was one of my grandfather's favorite sayings.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Taliesin said:


> ?
> 
> Goyische? Landsman? L'Chaim? "Dress British think Yiddish" in a forum about American Ivy League style?


Given just how few actual WASPs one finds in the Ivy Leagues these days, it couldn't be more appropriate.

That said, during the 'golden years' of Ivy style, the 1950s and 1960s, there was still a "numerus clausus" in place limiting the numbers of Jews (and I think some other immigrant minority groups, including Italians). The number was still higher, proportionately speaking, than in the national population, but still. And at Yale the difference was often that the Jews and Italians were local; I bet that was the case at Harvard as well. There was also generally a profound class difference. As well as a difference in attitude. The average WASP Yalie got into Yale via a prep school and was not really expected to study hard. One was there for "character," hence the idea of the "gentleman's C." The immigrant students (Jews, Italians, etc.) had a different agenda. One motivation for the cap on Jews and Italians was that the immigrants ruined the atmosphere, with all their studying and so forth. All that changed of course in the early-to-mid 1970s, when the Ivies went co-ed and became meritocratic.

Anyway, I wonder to what except clothing was used by different sub-groups at the Ivies to signify 'tribal' identities&#8230;something not unlike what happens at a high school. One group wore what was in fashion&#8230;others did not. Might a sack suit and soft shoulders have been used to signify being part of an in-group? Were there sartorial queues?


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

phyrpowr said:


> That list would have to include thousands of men in smaller communities across the country who've sent young men out the door lookin' good since at least the late 1800s. My own addition would be Mr. Leon Sugar of Lumberton, NC. If WASPs had been allowed to dress themselves, who knows what "Ivy" would look like?


Just about all the department stores in the country until recently...


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Robert Halperin was one of the founders of Land's End.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Charlie Pivnick.


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## thegovteach (Dec 2, 2012)

The local men's stores, that were( past tense) in business, were Jewish owned.....great service, great salesmen( many were Gentiles,) I miss them terribly.....


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

I hope it's ok to link to this:

https://www.ivy-style.com/measure-of-a-man-the-martin-greenfield-memoirs.html


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

gamma68 said:


> This might be a "chicken-and-egg" question, but did the WASPs just wear what the Jewish tailors provided them? Or did the Jewish tailors provide the garments the WASPs wanted?


There were many jewish and italian tailors that were brought into companies like Brooks and other places to make clothing, such as the Greco brothers (later of Southwick). So I'd say it was more your WASPs needing someone to make their clothes.

Before I worked at the mens store this summer, my boss had worked at Goldstein's which was right next door from the 40's to the 60's. One day my boss (who was a stockboy/sorta salesman) got mad that they didn't sell enough ivy league tweeds when a sales rep came around, so he sold his car and opened up shop next door. Anways, I noticed a lot of our older customers would still refer to him as "a goldstein boy". 
There was also a lot of prejudice in the Ivy clothing business, I know for example, Bunce Brothers was supposedly pretty anti-semetic.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

gamma68 said:


> This might be a "chicken-and-egg" question, but did the WASPs just wear what the Jewish tailors provided them? Or did the Jewish tailors provide the garments the WASPs wanted?


I think a capsule history would be that Anglo-Saxon Brooks Brothers set the stage for what constituted Ivy style (i.e., what was wanted) by the WASP elite, in large part by Americanizing certain English fashions (e.g., the polo collar), and by introducing other styles and fabrics from abroad (e.g., weejuns, madras). Jewish-owned stores like J. Press followed BB's lead into the 'heyday', and then took the lead themselves as both fashion innovators (especially Chipp and Paul Stuart) and as preservationists (most notably Ralph Lauren). The mother ship is, of course, still sputtering along, but now flying an Italian flag.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Ginsburg and Cohen






This still cracks me up!!


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

L-feld said:


> I suppose this happens every now and then when you "walk the dinosaur" of reactionary clothing. There have been some rumblings in parts of the tradosphere about things like geneology, bloodlines, authenticity, and other nonsense. Ralph Lauren was persona non grata for a while, but it looks like Muffy Aldrich may have taken his place.
> 
> Some days, I wonder if a goyische mob will come to strip me of my natural shoulders. As an antidote, I thought we should compile a list of notable Landsmen who have a contribution to "our thing."
> 
> ...


"Abe Ribicoff"?? (Yes I know who he is, but why?)


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

fred johnson said:


> "Abe Ribicoff"?? (Yes I know who he is, but why?)


https://theivyleaguelook.blogspot.com/2010/03/jfk-and-fenn-feinstein-1961.html

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Another referral to a reference on this topic: https://www.ivy-style.com/school-ties-jewish-clothiers-and-the-ivy-league.html


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/25/opinion/is-harvard-unfair-to-asian-americans.html?_r=1


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

This is probably not really on topic, but I am not sure what is on topic in this thread. 

An Ivy Alum may be the next Secretary of Defense. President Obama has settled on Ashton Carter. Here is the interesting part: 

He has degrees in Physics AND Medieval History from Yale. NOW that is an odd combination.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Ginsburg and Cohen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Many have come close, but this still remains my favourite film of all time.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

Beresford said:


> I hope it's ok to link to this:
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/measure-of-a-man-the-martin-greenfield-memoirs.html


I was wondering how long before this got linked here. Poor Muffy. She delights and infuriates me in equal measure, but this really is too much. I don't know how people get off so much on public axe grinding.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

roman totale XVII said:


> I was wondering how long before this got linked here. Poor Muffy. She delights and infuriates me in equal measure, but this really is too much. I don't know how people get off so much on public axe grinding.


? Not sure why Muffy is mentioned in relation to Chensvold's post.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

gamma68 said:


> ? Not sure why Muffy is mentioned in relation to Chensvold's post.


My bad. Muffy brouhaha is here;
https://www.ivy-style.com/uva-fraternity-party-1963.html


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

I would expect, in fact I would hope, that non-WASP tailors and clothiers actually further systematized, refined, and "idealized" trad clothing; they didn't simply copy it (the assertion that Jews can only copy is at the center of Richard Wagner's [_et al._] anti-Semitism). I simply can't believe that there is some trad essence preceding its commercialization.


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## Oak City Trad (Aug 2, 2014)

roman totale XVII said:


> My bad. Muffy brouhaha is here;
> https://www.ivy-style.com/uva-fraternity-party-1963.html


That comment section threw me for a loop when I first saw it. It's like a train-wreck vortex; can't look away AND you get sucked in. Nevertheless, it brings up some bizarre questions about blogging bona fides.

Oddly enough, to bring it full circle, that discussion is relative to this thread since it too deals with ethnicity, socioeconomic background and what it means to be "authentic".


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

I had no idea what the whole "Muffy" thing was about until I looked at those comments.

I would be astounded if Muffy is a fake. I have been reading her blog since it started, and I have never read anything that rang false. That fundamentally distinguishes her from the infamous "Richard" of "WASP 101," whom you could pick out as a phony poseur a mile away. As for using the name "Muffy," well, yes, that could be a put on, but so is my name "Beresford" (although it is a family name).

Anyway, her blog is one of my favorites. It amazes me people are going out of their way to trash her.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

Ironically, I now realize I was one of the first to go after WASP 101, on this forum, long before Christian Chensvold ever targeted him:.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?84941-The-Latest-from-WASP-101


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Muffy's okay in my book. She's never done anything to offend me.



Taliesin said:


> ?
> 
> Goyische? Landsman? L'Chaim? "Dress British think Yiddish" in a forum about American Ivy League style?


Surely you're joking.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Jovan said:


> Surely you're joking.


Of course I'm not joking. I don't know what the first three words mean, and I don't know what a Wall Street, Savile Row-oriented expression ("dress BRITISH") has to do with Ivy League style.

And the OP has not yet explained.

So no, I'm not joking. Are you?


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

For those who don't want to spend the time to go thru the Ivy Style thread, the point seems to be that "Muffy Aldrich" is either a pseudonym, or a legal name change, for the blogger who runs The Daily Prep. Because of this, commenters are questioning other aspects of the blogger's self-description and suggesting that she's hypocritical in that she focuses the blog on a notion of 'authenticity' that she does not personally possess. This was a controversy six months earlier on a web forum called DC Urban Moms, and then came up again over at Ivy Style.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Taliesin said:


> Of course I'm not joking. I don't know what the first three words mean, and I don't know what a Wall Street, Savile Row-oriented expression ("dress BRITISH") has to do with Ivy League style.
> 
> And the OP has not yet explained.
> 
> So no, I'm not joking. Are you?


I agree with Taliesin. I understand there is a connection between Jewish folks and Ivy Style. But I don't get the "Dress British Think Yiddish" slogan.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

gamma68 said:


> I agree with Taliesin. I understand there is a connection between Jewish folks and Ivy Style. But I don't get the "Dress British Think Yiddish" slogan.


I heard it as "Dress Episcopalian, Think Yiddish," which makes more sense.

Anyway, I find the fascination with the person Muffy Aldrich to be distasteful. A brief look at the comments on that Ivy Style post confirms my desire for this forum not to 'go there.' Let's leave her alone.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Taliesin said:


> . . . Anglo-Saxon Brooks Brothers set the stage for . . .by Americanizing certain English fashions (e.g., the polo collar), and . . . Jewish-owned stores like J. Press followed BB's lead into the 'heyday', and then took the lead themselves as both fashion innovators (especially Chipp and Paul Stuart) and as preservationists (most notably Ralph Lauren).


Thus British clothing, with a Yiddish twist.


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

It is strange to me that people expect blogs to be "real." As if they are different than any other form of media/entertainment.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

L-feld said:


> Thus British clothing, with a Yiddish twist.


No, it's American. It has British origins, same as, say, our language or system of government. But definitely American.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

I've been following this thread and, in truth, am still not sure I understand it. But since that never stopped me before, here are a few thoughts:

- At different times and in different cultures / countries / societies, only certain opportunities were open to certain groups and groups (cultural, religious, ethnic, etc.) would tend to gravitate to certain fields owing to historical skills, experience or happenstance (and, then, it became self-reinforcing as they would train their children / recruit others from their group into the field), so the field became dominated by one or a few groups. My guess is that this is why many tailors, 50 to 100 years ago, were Italian or Jewish and, just my personal experience, today, the younger ones seem to be more from Latin America and some of the poorer Asian countries (with a few of the older Italian and Jewish tailors still working). 

- I have no idea if Muffy's name is real, etc., but she shows a lot of historical pictures that seem to support her story; hence, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and enjoy her blog. If valid evidence is present that she has been lying, then I'll stop reading and will (once again) be disappointed, but unless that happens, I'm going to ignore the rumors.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Wait a minute. You're not the guy on your blog?



oxford cloth button down said:


> It is strange to me that people expect blogs to be "real." As if they are different than any other form of media/entertainment.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

Taliesin said:


> For those who don't want to spend the time to go thru the Ivy Style thread, the point seems to be that "Muffy Aldrich" is either a pseudonym, or a legal name change, for the blogger who runs The Daily Prep. Because of this, commenters are questioning other aspects of the blogger's self-description and suggesting that she's hypocritical in that she focuses the blog on a notion of 'authenticity' that she does not personally possess. This was a controversy six months earlier on a web forum called DC Urban Moms, and then came up again over at Ivy Style.


You guys are really wasting your time on discussing Muffy or whomever she is pretending to be? Who cares. It's a blog. On the Webs. I am with Jovan. Let whomever cosplay to her hearts content...


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Fading Fast said:


> - At different times and in different cultures / countries / societies, only certain opportunities were open to certain groups and groups (cultural, religious, ethnic, etc.) would tend to gravitate to certain fields owing to historical skills, experience or happenstance (and, then, it became self-reinforcing as they would train their children / recruit others from their group into the field), so the field became dominated by one or a few groups. My guess is that this is why many tailors, 50 to 100 years ago, were Italian or Jewish and, just my personal experience, today, the younger ones seem to be more from Latin America and some of the poorer Asian countries (with a few of the older Italian and Jewish tailors still working).


I think that's absolutely right: It's a function of immigration and the kinds of economic opportunities available to immigrants. Where I live, Koreans today are filling the niche. I've yet to encounter any Latin American tailors, but the cobbler I go to is Latino.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

oxford cloth button down said:


> It is strange to me that people expect blogs to be "real." As if they are different than any other form of media/entertainment.


I think there needs to be a distinction between blog types.

On the one hand, there are photo-based blogs like "Classy Girls Wear Pearls," which I take as a fictional representation of a group of beautiful young people engaging in fantasy activities while wearing Trad-inspired clothing (and those bracelet things). This kind of blog, for me, is entertainment, or an advertisement.

On the other hand, there are blogs like The Daily Prep and Trad Ivy Preppy (with posts from OCBD). These blogs, to me, are informational. I usually read those because I want to learn what OCBD thinks of the O'Connell's Shetland sweater, or what Muffy (and her readers) have to say about LLB's latest offerings. Yes, Muffy also has photos of her sailing adventures and shopping trips. But I take those posts as a quasi-photo diary, as opposed to Sarah Vickers' preppy fantasy land photos.

So, I approach OCBD and Muffy with a certain sense that what's depicted is real. Not so much from Sarah Vickers. This doesn't mean one is better than another.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

tocqueville said:


> I think that's absolutely right: It's a function of immigration and the kinds of economic opportunities available to immigrants. Where I live, Koreans today are filling the niche. I've yet to encounter any Latin American tailors, but the cobbler I go to is Latino.


I wasn't around during Ivy Style's heyday, so I could be wrong. But my sense is FF and tocqueville have the Jewish connection pegged. As noted in an earlier post, the tailors at that time were predominantly Jewish, and they supplied what the WASP customers wanted. If they didn't, they probably would have gone out of business before Ivy Style took a popularity dive in the late 1960s.

My sense is the suggestion that Jewish tailors took British clothing and gave it a Yiddish spin and created Ivy Style for the WASPs is not entirely accurate.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Taliesin said:


> No, it's American. It has British origins, same as, say, our language or system of government. But definitely American.


Right, the melting pot, or at least salad bowl.

My point of posting here was not to imply that Jews invented TNSIL or anything like that. It was just a way of saying "you don't have to be a WASP to be WASPy."


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

gamma68 said:


> I think there needs to be a distinction between blog types.
> 
> On the one hand, there are photo-based blogs like "Classy Girls Wear Pearls," which I take as a fictional representation of a group of beautiful young people engaging in fantasy activities while wearing Trad-inspired clothing (and those bracelet things). This kind of blog, for me, is entertainment, or an advertisement.
> 
> ...


Seems dangerously close to being a process entirely within your head 

That the first is entertainment and the second informational seems, in itself, a shaky division. You could simply state that the first does not entertain you, and the second does. It's all a fantasy, and mainly works because blogs, like books, leave so much to ones own imagination.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

gamma68 said:


> I wasn't around during Ivy Style's heyday, so I could be wrong. But my sense is FF and tocqueville have the Jewish connection pegged. As noted in an earlier post, the tailors at that time were predominantly Jewish, and they supplied what the WASP customers wanted. If they didn't, they probably would have gone out of business before Ivy Style took a popularity dive in the late 1960s.
> 
> My sense is the suggestion that Jewish tailors took British clothing and gave it a Yiddish spin and created Ivy Style for the WASPs is not entirely accurate.


You are supposing that tailors create what customers order, to a detailed spec. Aren't the tailor a huge factor in detailing, cut, etc?

If most of the tailors were Jewish, then who else could have created the clothes? Bespoke customers do not 'create' their clothes, mostly, that's only clothing enthusiast bespoke clients...?


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

If Muffy is a fake, I'll eat my hat. I grew up in that environment (on my Mom's side), and though my family were more British/Anglican/Episcopalian than New England Congregationalist, I was always sent to Congregational schools where we lived and then in New England, so I saw all of that up close. There's just way too much of the real thing there, from her Dad's photos to her descriptions of going to the local Congregational church bazaar or her friends who are into sailing, for it to be fake. And the fact that her connections are with Brown, rather than her touting Harvard or Yale, is another indicium of her bona fides. Brown is a very good school, but does not have the public cachet of a Harvard/Yale/Princeton. A lot of folks who don't know better would just go "huh" if you said you went to Brown (just like they say with the not-well-known school I went to).

There's some public perception that New England WASPS are somehow a bunch of snobs. My personal experience with the real ones was actually quite to the contrary, that most of them are very down to earth folks with few pretensions. One of my college suitemates was directly related to two different U.S. presidents (not the Bushes, it was the other ones with the same last name), but he was one of the nicest people I have ever met.

Basically, they have nothing to prove. You are going to find them a whole lot nicer than say the Kardashians or the Beverly Hills housewives or the other folks on the TV reality shows with money but no upbringing.

My strong suspicion is Muffy would be quite gracious with anyone she met, not snooty.

The other part of the debate appears to be whether Muffy's husband at some point had a Polish last name he changed to sound more WASP (apparently another family name--Aldrich is a New England family name). So what. Go to a Mayflower Society meeting and you will be surprised at the variety of folks you will see there. They are not all named Cabot or Lowell, and where I live, they are not even all white. (No, I am not a Mayflower descendant, but at one point I went out with a girl who was.)

Well, that's my rant for the day.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> Seems dangerously close to being a process entirely within your head
> 
> That the first is entertainment and the second informational seems, in itself, a shaky division. You could simply state that the first does not entertain you, and the second does. It's all a fantasy, and mainly works because blogs, like books, leave so much to ones own imagination.


Sorry, I disagree. I am entertained by "Classy Girls Wear Pearls," even if the scenarios depicted are "staged."

Blogs, like books, can be fiction or non-fiction. I don't consider OCBD's blog to be "fictionalized" like Vickers' blog.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> You are supposing that tailors create what customers order, to a detailed spec. Aren't the tailor a huge factor in detailing, cut, etc?


Sure. But I also give my tailor some guidelines. I'm certain people did the same in 1955. It most likely wasn't an "either/or" scenario. Instead, "both/and."



Bjorn said:


> If most of the tailors were Jewish, then who else could have created the clothes?


If the tailors weren't predominantly Jewish, they would have been ________________ [fill in the blank]. Different people would have filled the role.



Bjorn said:


> Bespoke customers do not 'create' their clothes, mostly, that's only clothing enthusiast bespoke clients...


At its best, bespoke clothing is probably a combination of the customer telling his tailor what he wants, and the tailor offering helpful suggestions as to those details. It's not one-sided.


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

I am really me (which isn't saying much!) sand in my limited experience Muffy is a very nice, gracious, and kind person. Thanks for the kind words on the blog Gamma.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Bjorn said:


> You are supposing that tailors create what customers order, to a detailed spec. Aren't the tailor a huge factor in detailing, cut, etc?
> 
> If most of the tailors were Jewish, then who else could have created the clothes? Bespoke customers do not 'create' their clothes, mostly, that's only clothing enthusiast bespoke clients...?


It's hard to know how certain trends emerged. It would take some serious historical work to tease out the real origins of "Ivy" style. How much input would tailors ever had made? And if they provided input, where are they getting their ideas? I can't imagine the Eastern European Jewish immigrant tailor would be infusing his work for his non-immigrant clients with Eastern European styling cues&#8230;But perhaps he's reading fashion magazines to keep up with what's in style&#8230;so maybe it's the magazine editors who are influencing the style, whoever they might be?


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

L-feld said:


> Right, the melting pot, or at least salad bowl.
> 
> My point of posting here was not to imply that Jews invented TNSIL or anything like that. It was just a way of saying "you don't have to be a WASP to be WASPy."


Definitely, you don't have to be a WASP to enjoy Ivy Style/TNSIL/Trad. It is a great melting pot of a style, embraced and refined over the decades of the 20th century by Americans of so many different backgrounds, and with English, Scottish, Irish, Norwegian, and Indian influences, and others I'm surely overlooking.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

tocqueville said:


> It's hard to know how certain trends emerged. It would take some serious historical work to tease out the real origins of "Ivy" style. How much input would tailors ever had made? And if they provided input, where are they getting their ideas? I can't imagine the Eastern European Jewish immigrant tailor would be infusing his work for his non-immigrant clients with Eastern European styling cues&#8230;But perhaps he's reading fashion magazines to keep up with what's in style&#8230;so maybe it's the magazine editors who are influencing the style, whoever they might be?


I'm still sticking to my story that Eddie Jacobs Sr. was a trendsetter for tennis sweaters.

https://articles.baltimoresun.com/2008-12-26/news/0812250064_1_eddie-jacobs-motta-downtown-baltimore

_The founding Eddie Jacobs, who was the 1924 boy's indoor tennis champion, learned the game at Druid Hill Park on courts opposite his Auchentoroly Terrace home. He went on to win the 1927 national junior doubles and again in the 1960s took top honors as a senior player.
_
_"My father brought in the tennis sweater and made a style out of it," his son said.
_
_The shop also sells a necktie, popularly known as the Eddie Jacobs, with a pattern of crossed rackets over a background of dark blue. At one time there was a tennis blazer, with a racket lining and buttons._


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Taliesin said:


> Definitely, you don't have to be a WASP to enjoy Ivy Style/TNSIL/Trad. It is a great melting pot of a style, embraced and refined over the decades of the 20th century by Americans of so many different backgrounds, and with English, Scottish, Irish, Norwegian, and Indian influences, and others I'm surely overlooking.


I should also mention that I really just wanted to make the titular pun, but apparently I'm the only Was (Not Was) fan here.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

L-feld said:


> I'm still sticking to my story that Eddie Jacobs Sr. was a trendsetter for tennis sweaters.


I thought it was Rene Lacoste who got the whole tennis style thing started?


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

L-feld said:


> I should also mention that I really just wanted to make the titular pun, but apparently I'm the only Was (Not Was) fan here.


Dude, I'm from Detroit, and used to listen to them with the Electrifyin' Mojo...and I didn't pick up on it.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Beresford said:


> I thought it was Rene Lacoste who got the whole tennis style thing started?


Well, he designed the original pique knit polo shirt.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

SlideGuitarist said:


> Dude, I'm from Detroit, and used to listen to them with the Electrifyin' Mojo...and I didn't pick up on it.


I wish there was still radio like that. Do you get WHUR in your neck of the woods?


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## Captain America (Aug 28, 2012)

Duvel said:


> I was raised Catholic in the Midwest, so I'm not sure what to make of any of it.


I'm with you brother! Midwest Catholic with late 19th century German "roots." I think there's some old-stock white Protestant "south" in there somewhere back, as well.


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## Captain America (Aug 28, 2012)

Beresford said:


> I thought it was Rene Lacoste who got the whole tennis style thing started?


Maybe in France. Don't forget Big Bill Tilden and the sensation he made in America during the 1920s. Hollywood stars traipsed around in tennis sweaters, too, as well as the Yalies so beloved and sketched by Gibson.


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## Captain America (Aug 28, 2012)

Taliesin said:


> Definitely, you don't have to be a WASP to enjoy Ivy Style/TNSIL/Trad. It is a great melting pot of a style, embraced and refined over the decades of the 20th century by Americans of so many different backgrounds, and with English, Scottish, Irish, Norwegian, and Indian influences, and others I'm surely overlooking.


There's also a farm/utilitarian/military aspect there as well.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

L-feld said:


> I should also mention that I really just wanted to make the titular pun, but apparently I'm the only Was (Not Was) fan here.


I don't know if I "get" them, but I'd like to. I dunno, I get the vibe that they're an album band, and I haven't ever sat down and listened to all of one of their albums. I mean, I like "Out Come The Freaks." Shamefully, it's the same story for Kid Creole.

I have no idea what this thread's about anymore. I wonder about the role of cricket in the "tennis" sweater (I think it's akin to the role of tennis in the polo shirt), but I really don't know.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I don't know if I "get" them, but I'd like to. I dunno, I get the vibe that they're an album band, and I haven't ever sat down and listened to all of one of their albums. I mean, I like "Out Come The Freaks." Shamefully, it's the same story for Kid Creole.
> 
> I have no idea what this thread's about anymore. I wonder about the role of cricket in the "tennis" sweater (I think it's akin to the role of tennis in the polo shirt), but I really don't know.


It's funny, I have always thought both bands really shine on their 12" singles, Kid Creole more so, because they are really good when they stretch out and jam.

Was(Not Was)'s albums aren't entirely cohesive musically, but they are cohesive in their batshit craziness. But I like them best as a wacked out disco band.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

Consider that until the 2nd half of the 20th century, the Jewish people were highly nomadic and always fearful of having to move the proverbial next day.

The skill of tailoring was portable and a skilled tailor could carry his fabric, cutting shears and needles with him wherever he went. A skilled tailor was also adept at creating a garment in the latest style and/or to the specifications of the paying client. No wonder then that wealthy NE college students and immigrant tailors found each other. The relationship served a purpose for each; the client received a well made garment at a fair price and the tailor was able to assimilate into the local culture.

Also to the original post, I would add the Garfinkle family, who owned BB durring the middle of the 20th century, concurrent with the period that is glorified on this forum.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

L-feld said:


> I should also mention that I really just wanted to make the titular pun, but apparently I'm the only Was (Not Was) fan here.


My wife's surname is Waugh. Have occasionally tried that same pun with Waughs (Not Waughs), but nobody really gets it.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

rl1856 said:


> Also to the original post, I would add the Garfinkle family, who owned BB durring the middle of the 20th century, concurrent with the period that is glorified on this forum.


The same Garfinkle as the former DC department store??


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Happy Hanukkah !


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Brio1 said:


> Happy Hanukkah !


Thanks!


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

^Those trousers are amazing, L-feld! 

I think Tailesin nailed it: you don't have to be a WASP to enjoy TNSIL. You don't have to have attended an Ivy-League school, either.

As for our list of Jewish TNSIL merchants, let's not forget Arthur M. Rosenberg, Fenn-Feinstein, and Arthur Adler.

When I first saw the thread, I immediately thought of "Walk the Dinosaur." Then I thought that I was clearly an idiot: Who would make a Was (Not Was) joke? I'm delighted to see that the answer to that question is "L-feld."


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Sir Cingle said:


> ^Those trousers are amazing, L-feld!
> 
> I think Tailesin nailed it: you don't have to be a WASP to enjoy TNSIL. You don't have to have attended an Ivy-League school, either.
> 
> ...


I think my pun to post ratio is second only to WouldaShoulda's. I think there is a direct correlation between consumption of Chesapeake bay seafood and a corny sense of humor.

I'll need to get a pair of those pants one day. Currently Castaway doesn't have them in my size. Maybe they will restock in time for next year.

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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

L-feld said:


> Thanks!


You're most welcome , L-feld. Nice trousers !


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