# Tipping at resturants



## dawgvet (Mar 15, 2009)

I have a question about tipping your waiter/waitress when out to dinner. Do you all prefer to just write in a tip on the receipt when using a card or always leave cash for a tip. My father and I debate this idea as he says sometimes the wait staff may not get the tip or at least a reduced amount. I usually write in a tip as I use a debit card most of the time and don't always have correct change for a tip. Just wondering what the right thing is to do. Any input appreciated.
Thanks,
Jed


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

I don't know if there is a right thing to do. 

If possible, I always leave cash. My reasoning is that the waitperson is not making a ton of money. If I leave a tip on the card, then the tip is declared income for tax purposes. If I leave cash, then the waitperson declares his/her tips to the IRS. Whether they choose to do so or not is none of my business.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

I pay my taxes and they should pay theirs, too. That's why I never leave a cash tip. Keeps 'em honest. 

Just kidding. If I have the right amount of cash to tip without needing to break any bills, I leave cash. Otherwise, I just write it in. I don't usually carry much cash, usually just a 20 or two if any at all, so I mostly just write it in.

SHP: I don't think you're right on the declared/undeclared thing. In most restaurants, tips are shared. This is divided up between kitchen staff, waitstaff, bartenders, etc and based on a point system, net sales, or total tips. Unless waitstaff is skimming off of the top and not adding some of his/her tips to the tip share, card/cash won't matter. The card tips are cashed out and added to the cash tips, which are then divided up between staff. Your server may end up with 60% of total tips he/she collected that night, or 120% of total tips he/she collected that night, depending on the system used.*

*A server taking home 120% of the tips he/she collected in a night is probably a very lousy server and working at a point system restaurant. Of course, there is the odd huge tip, which will also tilt the scales one way or another depending on which side you stand. 


I have also noticed a new trend in many restaurants I've been in where, basically, the server takes my order, asks if I want dessert, and brings me my check. Everything else is done by someone else - and usually 3-4 someone elses. I had this experience the other night at a pretty well-respected DC restaurant. I saw my server exactly three times and he was at our table for a total of maybe four minutes. I wanted to tip the Guatemalan runner double what I tipped my server considering he was the one filling glasses, bringing food, checking on us mid-meal, bringing dessert menus, etc.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

When I was a waiter (one summer, many years ago now), cash tips were not automatically reported to the IRS. There was a contribution of tips to bus boys, runners, etc., regardless of the form of the tips, but tips in cash were contributed/shared in cash. So, again, it was on the server as to whether they would report or not. 

I tip fairly generously (20% as standard, often rounded up to next whole dollar, and on full post-tax amount), but don't tip in a different form than I pay the bill. If I'm paying the bill with plastic, the tip is plastic. If I'm paying in cash, the tip is in cash.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

CuffDaddy said:


> When I was a waiter (one summer, many years ago now), cash tips were not automatically reported to the IRS. There was a contribution of tips to bus boys, runners, etc., regardless of the form of the tips, but tips in cash were contributed/shared in cash. So, again, it was on the server as to whether they would report or not.


Yes, when I waited on tables in college that was my experience as well...but that was over 20 years ago. I recall lots of arguments between waitresses and busboys about the busboys wanting more of a share of the cash tips.

Per Tilton, I don't doubt things may have changed, especially at chain restaurants or at some of the fancier places, but at my local diner, I'm pretty sure the waitress keeps her tips and is on her honor to declare her cash tips to the IRS (and give the busboys their due).


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> I don't know if there is a right thing to do.
> 
> If possible, I always leave cash. My reasoning is that the waitperson is not making a ton of money. If I leave a tip on the card, then the tip is declared income for tax purposes. If I leave cash, then the waitperson declares his/her tips to the IRS. Whether they choose to do so or not is none of my business.


As a general proposition two people making the same income should pay the same tax on that income. While other criteria can alter the sensibility of that proposition, whether the income is in the form of cash tips or a check from the employer is not one of those criteria in my book.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

CuffDaddy said:


> When I was a waiter (one summer, many years ago now), cash tips were not automatically reported to the IRS. There was a contribution of tips to bus boys, runners, etc., regardless of the form of the tips, but tips in cash were contributed/shared in cash. So, again, it was on the server as to whether they would report or not.
> 
> I tip fairly generously (20% as standard, often rounded up to next whole dollar, and on full post-tax amount), but don't tip in a different form than I pay the bill. If I'm paying the bill with plastic, the tip is plastic. If I'm paying in cash, the tip is in cash.


My practice exactly.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

15% cash is my standard. If the server promises NOT to report it to the government I'll go up to 20%.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

As mentioned cash is usually enjoyed by these folks. They make what hourly? $4.00? The problem with cash goes into "tip sharing". If the property splits all the tips evenly & the server pockets the tip, the system becomes unbalanced. This would be more of an issue to me than the u.s. government missing out on a few undeclared tips.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

justonemore said:


> They make what hourly? $4.00?


Ha, they wish. $2.13/hour. It's not at all uncommon for servers to never, ever recieve one cent in their actual paychecks, with every cent withheld to cover the taxes on the reported tips.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Cash is best for tips.

I tend to adhere to local custom for the approximate percentage. Excessively over-tipping is an unseemly practice. 

Don't get me started on establishments who add a tip to the actual bill as presented.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> Ha, they wish. $2.13/hour. It's not at all uncommon for servers to never, ever recieve one cent in their actual paychecks, with every cent withheld to cover the taxes on the reported tips.


For some reason I thought the "minimum wage" had gone up for servers/hospitality workers. Thanks for the correction.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

There has been talk of raising it, but, to the best of my knowledge, it remains at a level it almost exists in name only.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Mike Petrik said:


> As a general proposition two people making the same income should pay the same tax on that income. While other criteria can alter the sensibility of that proposition, whether the income is in the form of cash tips or a check from the employer is not one of those criteria in my book.


Entirely correct. That is why I leave cash and trust my waitperson to do the right thing.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

I almost never carry cash, so I tip with plastic on most occasions. Tip splitting depends on the establishment. I've noticed most small restaurants don't have bussers or runners so the server does all the work. I typically tip in the area of 15-20% depending on the level of service I got. Don't be fooled by the 'minimum wage' nonsense. My sister in law used to work for Green Mill in Minneapolis and she said she made very good money in tips. There are some industries, like coffee shops, where wages aren't going to be as good, but I don't see these establishments as need based in today's economy, especially with a million Starbucks shops around town


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Entirely correct. That is why I leave cash and trust my waitperson to do the right thing.


I do too when I leave cash. It is not my job to police them and I don't view it as a big issue really, but I cannot support the idea (not yours) that one should leave cash for the purpose of enabling them to avoid taxes. That just isn't right.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

I generally tip in cash, actually, invariably in cash, usually about 10-15%, dependent upon the size of the bill. If the tip is in cash then I know that the waiter or waitress gets it, rather than the restaurant owner.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I also tip in cash, generally around 20% or slightly more, unless we are out for breakfast. For some reason my tipping rate for breakfast meals is generally set at 15%...I'm not sure why, but I've always done it that way. Maybe it's a time spent at the table/level of work effort thing? :icon_scratch:


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## AceBoogie (May 12, 2013)

This is kind of off topic, but how do you guys tip for deliveries that you order online? There is usually a tip box online but I'm not sure if the delivery guy will ever see that money and i feel awkward just handing over a few bills for a delivery tip if the bill is already paid online


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Good question. I use seamless from time to time, and I leave the standard tip it has in there (18% I think) for most places. If they restaurant doesn't have a delivery fee, I'll bump my tip up. If the guy is really prompt, I'll throw him a dollar or two, depending on meal price. I'm always afraid to put that I'll tip in cash, because I imagine them thinking "this cheapskate isn't going to tip a dime!" and then proceeding to soil my food, a la the movie Waiting.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

AceBoogie said:


> This is kind of off topic, but how do you guys tip for deliveries that you order online? There is usually a tip box online but I'm not sure if the delivery guy will ever see that money and i feel awkward just handing over a few bills for a delivery tip if the bill is already paid online


When I order a delivery, I always tip the deliveryman. I would never use a tip box online or at the restaurant (if I had stopped in on my way home to place the order) because I don't know where that tip money goes. In the restaurant for a sit down meal, I always pay with plastic and almost always tip with plastic. If I tip with cash, lately I have been handing the tip to the waitress rather than leaving it on the table. This thread has made me give serious thought to not tipping with plastic when I pay with plastic.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

To clarify, I waited tables for about a month in college. All credit card tips were handed to me, directly, in cash, at the end of the night (less 10% to the busboy and 10% of tips proportionate to alcohol sales, which went to the bartender). As I mentioned before, unless a server is dishonest with his coworkers who depend on the tip money they earn from him (and let me tell you, the dishwasher every dime of his cut from the waitstaff), he gets the tip tax free. Regardless of tip method, the server walks out with his cut of tips for the night in cash. The tip you put on your credit card is not put into some system whereby a check is cut for the server and taxes are already deducted. It is up to the server to report all tips earned, cash or otherwise.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, maybe I'll stop tipping in cash all together to be sure that the unseen and harder working employees DO get their fair share of the tips and not leave a portion of their livelihood in the hands of a waiter.


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## Belfaborac (Aug 20, 2011)

Would it not be both simpler and better to just pay people a wage it's possible to live on? $2.13 x 8hr x 5 days x 48 weeks comes in at an annual wage of $4089,60, which seems a smidgeon on the low side. And if you might not even receive those few dollars....


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Some passenger cruise line companies don't pay their catering crew at all. No wages at all; they are entirely dependent upon tips.


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## Belfaborac (Aug 20, 2011)

Cheers, I'll remember to check into that in advance if I ever feel like going on a cruise. I would never knowingly travel with a company like that, just like I would never knowingly dine in a restaurant which doesn't pay a living wage. Not a great fan of exploitation in general, really.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Belfaborac said:


> Would it not be both simpler and better to just pay people a wage it's possible to live on? $2.13 x 8hr x 5 days x 48 weeks comes in at an annual wage of $4089,60, which seems a smidgeon on the low side. And if you might not even receive those few dollars....


Say you get 10 tables a night. Each leaves a $10 tip. That's 100x5x50 = $25K a year in tips. I'm sure there are places where the tips are a lot less, but there are also places where the tip income is a lot more.

If you're a good waiter, you want to work for tips...at least I did, when I waited on tables during college.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Belfaborac said:


> Would it not be both simpler and better to just pay people a wage it's possible to live on? $2.13 x 8hr x 5 days x 48 weeks comes in at an annual wage of $4089,60, which seems a smidgeon on the low side. And if you might not even receive those few dollars....


Well, in addition to the fact that good waiters at high-end or high-turnover restaurants can do better than any hourly wage that would be viable, you have the problem that the restaurant business is low margin and unpredictable. During periods of low traffic, having to pay wait staff a living wage ($12/hour? $20?) regardless of traffic would push many restuarants over the edge. A tip-based system means that some restaurant expenses scale (once you assume that the patrons are figuring in the tip as part of the total expense of the meal in deciding whether and when to dine at the establishment). I don't love the current system, but to suggest a wholesale change would be just "simpler and better" might be oversimplifying.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Say you get 10 tables a night. Each leaves a $10 tip. That's 100x5x50 = $25K a year in tips. I'm sure there are places where the tips are a lot less, but there are also places where the tip income is a lot more.
> 
> If you're a good waiter, you want to work for tips...at least I did, when I waited on tables during college.


I've had several friends who waited or tended bar after college for a year or so. When they moved on to the professional world, at least a couple said they were making less money, all said and done. One of them would pull in around $800 a week tending bar just on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

At restaurant it is always proper to leave about 20% tip then add sales tax.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Tilton said:


> To clarify, I waited tables for about a month in college. All credit card tips were handed to me, directly, in cash, at the end of the night (less 10% to the busboy and 10% of tips proportionate to alcohol sales, which went to the bartender). As I mentioned before, unless a server is dishonest with his coworkers who depend on the tip money they earn from him (and let me tell you, the dishwasher every dime of his cut from the waitstaff), he gets the tip tax free. Regardless of tip method, the server walks out with his cut of tips for the night in cash. The tip you put on your credit card is not put into some system whereby a check is cut for the server and taxes are already deducted. It is up to the server to report all tips earned, cash or otherwise.
> 
> EDIT: Now that I think about it, maybe I'll stop tipping in cash all together to be sure that the unseen and harder working employees DO get their fair share of the tips and not leave a portion of their livelihood in the hands of a waiter.


Sadly, there are some restaurants where the staff do not receive tips that are paid by card - the restaurant keeps it. Tips should always be paid separately, in cash.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Langham said:


> Sadly, there are some restaurants where the staff do not receive tips that are paid by card - the restaurant keeps it. Tips should always be paid separately, in cash.


What restaurants in the states do this?


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Langham said:


> Sadly, there are some restaurants where the staff do not receive tips that are paid by card - the restaurant keeps it. Tips should always be paid separately, in cash.


Good way to get sued in the U.S. For a little background, see: https://www.tipcompliance.com/pollearningcenter.cfm?doc_id=89


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

^^ I have absolutely no idea what the legal position is here in the UK but I suspect that, tips supposedly being discretionary, the area is entirely unregulated. I always ask the waiting staff how they prefer their tip to be paid, and in a good few cases they ask for cash as otherwise the restaurant either keeps all of it, or sometimes it keeps 50%. But perhaps the real reason they prefer cash is to avoid having to share with the other staff? Nobody knows.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Tilton said:


> What restaurants in the states do this?


 I have no idea. I was referring only to the UK.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Belfaborac said:


> Cheers, I'll remember to check into that in advance if I ever feel like going on a cruise. I would never knowingly travel with a company like that, just like I would never knowingly dine in a restaurant which doesn't pay a living wage. Not a great fan of exploitation in general, really.


It's most of them. Almost invariably the case when the catering crew are what is usually described as 3rd World.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Langham said:


> ^^ I have absolutely no idea what the legal position is here in the UK but I suspect that, tips supposedly being discretionary, the area is entirely unregulated.


Tips are discretionary in the US, too, but employer treatment of tips is unregulated.


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

In the states, wait staffs are paid below minimum wage. In privately owned restaurants, benefits like health insurance, disability and paid vacations are the exception. Not the rule.

Years ago, I did this work to make it through college. Now, I generally tip 20%. The server will be better treated by the IRS if the tip is in cash, but I don't usually carry cash these days.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

wdrazek said:


> *In the states, wait staffs are paid below minimum wage. *


Just a point of fact: they are not.

Per DOL, italics mine:

1) the amount of cash wage the employer is paying a tipped employee must be at least $2.13 per hour; _(in many states the minimum wage is higher and tip credit lower. For example, in WA, the wage is $9.19 and there is no tip credit taken)._
2) the additional amount claimed by the employer as a tip credit cannot exceed $5.12 (the difference between the minimum required cash wage of $2.13 and the current minimum wage of $7.25);
3) the tip credit claimed by the employer cannot exceed the amount of tips actually received by the tipped employee; _(ie. if an employee earned less than $5.12/hr in tips, the difference must be paid by the employer)_
4) all tips received by the tipped employee are to be retained by the employee except for a valid tip pooling arrangement limited to employees who customarily and regularly receive tips;


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

All due respect, $2.13 is below the US minimum wage, sorry. Tips are a wait person's livelihood.

And again, health/disability/life insurance and paid vacations are a rarity. Just sayin.



Tilton said:


> Just a point of fact: they are not.
> 
> Per DOL, italics mine:
> 
> ...


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Reminds of Mr. Pink in 'Reservoir Dogs'. He had to be forced to tip.

At least he did not shoot the 'waitperson' like the bloke in 'The Sopranos'.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Howard said:


> At restaurant it is always proper to leave about 20% tip


Agree. If you cant afford a decent tip..STAY HOME.


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## jbarwick (Nov 17, 2012)

My tip starts at 20% then goes down from there based on service.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

wdrazek said:


> All due respect, $2.13 is below the US minimum wage, sorry. Tips are a wait person's livelihood.
> 
> And again, health/disability/life insurance and paid vacations are a rarity. Just sayin.


You clearly either misread or misunderstood. Waitstaff make minimum wage. Period. I'm not saying that minimum wage is by any means a liveable wage, but they do make at least that.

Benefits are another story all together, and much more broadly applied to the general workforce than tip credits, which apply only to a very specific job. I wouldn't lump paid vacation into the same category as healthcare, though.

That said, as I mentioned, I spent a brief time waiting tables and I know what it is like. I usually tip around 20% and then round up to the next dollar is it is uneven. Frankly, unless the service is egregious, I don't give it any thought and I tip the same way almost every time - it is just part of the cost of a meal. I've never understood people who make a big deal over the tip.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Chouan said:


> Some passenger cruise line companies don't pay their catering crew at all. No wages at all; they are entirely dependent upon tips.


A recent Panorama (a reasonably credible English T.V. program) expose of the practices of cruise liners and their flags of convenience applied to flout employment laws was shocking. Employees can actually end up in debt to the companies for whom they work 18 hours a day.


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

Your tipping standards are beyond the average and I commend you. 
In my 20's I did stints as waiter, busboy, cook, pantry chef getting to my Bachelor's degree. What I was most aghast over was how privately owned four star restaurants provided zero in benefits -not even employee paid ones- while the chains at least did some... although it was often to the regularly paid staff, e.g. the managers, cooks and dishwashers.

Since then, I have realized that the smaller houses were not wrong. The cost of benefits is high (especially health care here in the States). And they have a lot of larger scale corporate competitors who can spread costs out more.

Still, I insist that wait staffs over here are in a precarious position economically, and a little bit extra is the right thing to do, in my opinion.



Tilton said:


> You clearly either misread or misunderstood. Waitstaff make minimum wage. Period. I'm not saying that minimum wage is by any means a liveable wage, but they do make at least that.
> 
> Benefits are another story all together, and much more broadly applied to the general workforce than tip credits, which apply only to a very specific job. I wouldn't lump paid vacation into the same category as healthcare, though.
> 
> That said, as I mentioned, I spent a brief time waiting tables and I know what it is like. I usually tip around 20% and then round up to the next dollar is it is uneven. Frankly, unless the service is egregious, I don't give it any thought and I tip the same way almost every time - it is just part of the cost of a meal. I've never understood people who make a big deal over the tip.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

you also want to tip on how the service was and how the staff treated you fairly or not.


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## Belfaborac (Aug 20, 2011)

I tip if I receive exceptional service, which is a very rare occurrence. If service is merely good I may take the opportunity to rid myself of whatever change I'm carrying, if any. Restaurant staff here earn 60.000+/year, close to the national average, so I see no reason to be more generous. And somehow, despite them earning a decent wage, there are restaurants aplenty to choose from.

I also tip when travelling in poor countries and I suppose I shall also have to do so if I ever visit the US.


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