# American look vs English look



## Compaq (Apr 18, 2010)

What exactly is the difference? I'm talking casual here, not formal.

Thanks
Compaq


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

They wear football jerseys, while we wear football jerseys.


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## Padme (Aug 18, 2009)

Depending on the look you are going for, Europeans are slightly dated in my opinion. They are slightly more exagerated if they are going for sloppy or strange hair.

If they are going for preppy or sloane, depending on the money they've got, it's a dated luxury look which is not bad or a lot of trendy designer.

I do agree some Americans will try and copy the look. I always hope for a middle of the road approach leaning toward the American look.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Compaq said:


> What exactly is the difference? I'm talking casual here, not formal.
> 
> Thanks
> Compaq


Very little difference as far as I can see.


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## Compaq (Apr 18, 2010)

I still don't understand what the "American traditional look" is, nor the classic English/British look.

Wearing sport coats, sport shirts, cotton trousers etc. What look is it, really?

Sorry for stupid questions:S


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## Padme (Aug 18, 2009)

I think of it as who we are and what we do as opposed to a look we wear. We just happen to wear clothing that helps us to do the things we do. Over the years some of the labels have changed, some hairstyles have changed but not much because we are still doing the same things in our lives.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Compaq said:


> I still don't understand what the "American traditional look" is, nor the classic English/British look.
> 
> Wearing sport coats, sport shirts, cotton trousers etc. What look is it, really?
> 
> Sorry for stupid questions:S


You have to define yourself more clearly, when you wrote casual in your previous post I assumed you meant modern street casual in which there is not much differecne between US and UK clothing

However, if you're talking about the US Ivy League/college/Kennedy clan look (called Trad on this forum for some odd reason:icon_smile_wink vs. the classic English look then there is a world of difference on which many people have written books and still not succeeded in explaining it clearly.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Padme said:


> I think of it as who we are and what we do as opposed to a look we wear. We just happen to wear clothing that helps us to do the things we do. Over the years some of the labels have changed, some hairstyles have changed but not much because we are still doing the same things in our lives.


I like that.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

A huge topic: "two countries divided by a common langauge.":icon_smile_big:


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## Compaq (Apr 18, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> You have to define yourself more clearly, when you wrote casual in your previous post I assumed you meant modern street casual in which there is not much differecne between US and UK clothing
> 
> However, if you're talking about the US Ivy League/college/Kennedy clan look (called Trad on this forum for some odd reason:icon_smile_wink vs. the classic English look then there is a world of difference on which many people have written books and still not succeeded in explaining it clearly.


I meant the traditional/classic look. I suppose it's not a goal to have a completely classic English look (or American for that matter), but find something we like.

Now, I'm a big fan of sportcoats (though I've never worn one. I just like the way it looks, especially the tweeds).

When wearing sportcoats, is it a sport shirt I'm supposed to have underneath? As I've understood it, sport shirts have more patterns and are less formal. Is that correct?

If I bought one classic summerly outfit, could I use that, and go back to my modern clothes when I wash the new clothes? How should I approach this new hobby / interest? Buy enough attires so that I have for each day and so that I can mix, or buy one, wear it one day and something modern the next? It just feels weird mixing a modern look and a classic look. I may be off my rocker here. I have much to learn, and I believe this place is brilliant!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> A huge topic: "two countries divided by a common langauge.":icon_smile_big:


Churchill! However, it was "peoples" not "countries"


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Roetzel's book (which I just sold) has the distinction down perfectly. In fact, if you lean more "European Trad" (if such a thing can be said to exist), you'll do no better than the Gentleman's Guide. Since Roetzel is German, he has the English look nailed, and even contrasts it with authentic American trad in the book.*

*This book predates the word trad, but you know it when you see it.

Seriously, highly recommended reading if one wants to be more continental. I don't, thus the sale. Worth the price of admission for turning me on to Barbour in college however.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Pink and Green said:


> Roetzel's book (which I just sold) has the distinction down perfectly. In fact, if you lean more "European Trad" (if such a thing can be said to exist), you'll do no better than the Gentleman's Guide. Since Roetzel is German, he has the English look nailed, and even contrasts it with authentic American trad in the book.*
> 
> *This book predates the word trad, but you know it when you see it.
> 
> Seriously, highly recommended reading if one wants to be more continental. I don't, thus the sale. Worth the price of admission for turning me on to Barbour in college however.


His bok crops up here regularly as a "must read" and I must say that it behoves everyone interested in men's clothing to get a copy and read it. Not just flick through it, looking at the pretty boys, but to actually sit down and read it. If it isn't the gentleman's bible then I don't what else could be.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

As I said, it's a little too European in flair to me, but his advice is still sound.*

*Said as someone who has a Union Jack shaving mug, brush and etc, but still pulls out the disposable razor and Barbasol too. The beauty of being American - Nordstroms one day, Wal-Mart the next with no one thinking twice.


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## Compaq (Apr 18, 2010)

The traditional wet shave is superior to the Gillette disposables. A proper shave soap is much, much better then Gillette's crap in a can. I just recently bought Geo F. Trumper's Lime soap. Brilliant. 22 Euros, and it lasts me a year, probably.

If you're going classic, the traditional wet shave (brush, straight or DE razor, shaving soap/shaving cream etc) should be mandatory


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## TradMichael (Apr 13, 2006)

Breast pocket on left vs. right


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

It's all become quite muddled over the last 15 or 20 years, but I think to answer the question with any integrity one must impose some conditions on the question, and those I shall impose are that wearer is attempting to look good and has a modicum of aesthetic sensebility. For the purpose of the specific explanation I will offer I will also include other Europeans though aware that to many Europeans the differences in dress among them are as great as those between British and American.

The difference is the varying aesthetic regard for rusticity. Folk costume or national costume aside my life's experiences suggest that as a generality European's regard formality as the highest paradigm while many Americans gravitate to a greater degree of rusticity as a paradigm. This may be rooted in an aristocratic social paradigm at the heart of Europeans while an American's touchstone is likely to be agrarian. And I realize this may be offensive and vehemently denied by many left leaning Europeans, but it is still my perception consciously or often unconsciously that the aristocratic paradigm remains.

The U.S. had a huge and vibrant men's sportswear industry cranking out innovation for much of the 20th Century. A lot of the inspiration for designs originated in the costumes worn for manual labor, by frontiersmen and for active sport. These were refined and evolved, and sprinkled with a bit of cross-pollination from European estate wear to become classic American sportswear. And for most of this time Europeans who wished to dress well, but more casually, would wear a slightly more relaxed version of everyday business wear.

Obviously things have changed. But that this difference is not yet wholly gone and lies at the heart of the issue I think can be clearly seen in comparisons of the variety of modes represented by the casual wear of British and American retailers.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

USA: Jeans and t-shirts
UK: Jeans and t-shirts


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Churchill! However, it was "peoples" not "countries"


Oops, right, thanks. Better, of course.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Most interesting, Flanderian. Must think about that, not sure it's true, but feels like it is....


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

While there are a lot of things that are similar, the average American tends to look like










and the average UK resident tends to look like










I think it's the sunglasses.:icon_smile:


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

In relation to Rotzel are we speaking here of Gentleman's Guide to Grooming and Style or Gentleman A Timeless Fashion?


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Yankophile:

Pair of voluminous WWII-style khakis
Full-cut Madras buttondown
Sad-looking cotton bucket hat

Anglophile:

Moleskin trousers
Viyella tattersall shirt
Flat cap


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## PeterSawatzky (Feb 20, 2009)

British:








American:









(At least in casual clothes, the Brits tend toward earth tones, whereas the Americans have more blue and tan mixed in. I think this is because of the stronger distinction between town [blue and gray] and country [green and brown] settings, from which formal and casual styles are derived. The American suburban culture splits the difference.)


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm no expert here, but I think two differences include an American preference for center vents and button down collars while Brits go for side vents and various non-buttoned collars.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

katon said:


> Yankophile:
> 
> Pair of voluminous WWII-style khakis
> Full-cut Madras buttondown
> ...


I'd be much obliged if you would refrain from trolling.

American and British (traditional) causal clothes are not really that dissimilar. They really have the same idea, and they both draw heavily from "country" looks. All that comes down to is divergent evolution. Barbours and Barn Coats are almost the same thing, and jeans and moleskin's serve the same purpose. Americans tend to all wool shirts over viyellas, and laced boots over wellies. Same idea, but American clothes tend to be more rugged.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

P Hudson said:


> I'm no expert here, but I think two differences include an American preference for center vents and button down collars while Brits go for side vents and various non-buttoned collars.


...and then you have us confused/conflicted personalities who prefer side vents and OCBD's (button down collars)...occasionally paired with western boots!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

katon said:


> Yankophile:
> 
> Pair of voluminous WWII-style khakis
> Full-cut Madras buttondown
> Sad-looking cotton bucket hat


I'm down with that!!


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Compaq said:


> I still don't understand what the "American traditional look" is, nor the classic English/British look.
> 
> Wearing sport coats, sport shirts, cotton trousers etc. What look is it, really?
> 
> Sorry for stupid questions:S


You need to take some time and review some of the "STICKY" threads at the beginning of this forum to get a better idea of things. Use that & the search function to do some research before asking questions; alot of what you are looking for is already there.


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## Cavebear58 (Jan 31, 2010)

beherethen said:


> While there are a lot of things that are similar, the average American tends to look like
> 
> and the average UK resident tends to look like
> 
> I think it's the sunglasses.:icon_smile:


I find this an offensive post. I shalln't lower myself to respond even though there are several comments I could make.

Regards, Graham.


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## jojo (Mar 28, 2007)

As far as fit goes, UK suits and jackets tend to be cut much trimmer and fitted while American suits have the "sack" look. When I wear an American cut suit, it literally feels like it swims on me even though its the same size as what I buy in England.

UK shirts also tend to have no breast pockets and spread collars are preferred while US shirts tend to narrower collars and a breast pocket.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

American:
Button-down collars, fuller cut shirts and trousers, and our "dress" shoes are more casual. English dress shoes always look a little pointy to me. I am sure our shoes look round and clunky to them. Center vent jackets. Four-in-hand knots.
English:
Spread collar shirts, trimmer cut clothes, side vent jackets, sleek shoes. Windsor knots.

There are other things, but that is what comes to mind off the top of my head.


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## Carisbrooke (Nov 12, 2008)

Here's a magazine article on the American look vs the English look with respect to tweed.

Rugged Tweed Boy, UK x USA, _Free & Easy_, January 2010


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## BPH (Mar 19, 2007)

Cavebear58 said:


> I find this an offensive post. I shalln't lower myself to respond even though there are several comments I could make.
> 
> Regards, Graham.


+1 - could post a million pictures of many American's that would actually make Frank look pretty good but won't lower myself.


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## BPH (Mar 19, 2007)

Carisbrooke said:


> Here's a magazine article on the American look vs the English look with respect to tweed.
> 
> Rugged Tweed Boy, UK x USA, _Free & Easy_, January 2010


None of these capture the English look I am familiar with - to me they all look American


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

BPH said:


> None of these capture the English look I am familiar with - to me they all look American


Really? Most of them look more English to me. Maybe it's just that no one actually dresses quite like that. Well... maybe the Japanese do...


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