# Work Boots - Advice Needed on Fit, style



## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

I thought I had found a solution with my special order INDY Boots on the Modified Last from Moulded Shoe - but after waiting 6 months, Alden advised that they can no longer do Modified Last boots on a EEE width (new cutting machine was the excuse). Lot's of time invested with nothing to show for it, but of course the guys at Moulded apologized and returned my Deposit. I haven't found a size in the Standard Alden INDY boot (Tru-Balance) that 'feels' right yet - tried a 9.5EEE in the Alden Shop and with my orthotic it just didn't feel right in the toe box. Alden shop doesn't stock EE - if they did, I would have tried a 10EE...

Now I'm looking closely at White's Boots - as I've heard they are very well made and seems like they are customizable in both size and style. Thinking about their 'Smoke Jumper' model, which is essentially a 6" or 8" plain toe work boot (you can add a cap toe, etc). I'm going to have a retailer help me to measure with my orthotic (none in my area so I'll do this when on vacation) and then see what the company says in terms of sizing. There are tons of Leather options available and they are now carrying Cromexcel...

Forget the different colored leathers and laces here - but this is kindof what I'm going for (6" smoke jumper):



My question(s) are -
1. Has anyone had experience using White's custom order program from a size / comfort perspective.
2. What do you think of the styling / comfort of White's boots? I know they are very different than INDY boots, but I'd be really curious to hear a comparison of the two.
3. Anyone know of an Alden dealer in NYC (or online with free shipping) that stocks EE width. I'd like to try them out before I completely give up on the ubiquitous INDYs

Happy holidays to all and than you so much in advance for going thru my ramblings


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## MichaelB (Dec 17, 2004)

For a long time I lived within a few miles of the White's factory and store. So I knew a lot of guys who wore their boots and swore by them: hunters, loggers, ranchers, construction workers, and real smokejumpers. They're legendary throughout the Northwest and Montana (you can even find them described in Norman Maclean's autobiographical stories about the Forest Service and firefighting; he wrote A River Runs Through It). They're indestructible, and guys will have them resoled again and again, they're so attached to the comfort of their own broken-in pair of boots. Like a handmade saddle, they just get better with age.

That said, as you can tell from the catalog photos the White's Smokejumpers are big, heavy, real-deal, no-compromise work boots. Unlike the Alden's, they make far too much of a statement for city or suburban wear. If the Alden's are a really good-looking and sturdy SUV, the White's are a Caterpillar bulldozer. A trawler-style luxury yacht versus an actual ocean-going tugboat.


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## cowboyjack (May 18, 2008)

White's Boots. BEST money you will ever spend on a very rugged pair of footwear. I have several pair, two Smokejumpers, and one Packer, ranging from 12 to 8 years old. If you measure carefully, just follow their directions, or have someone help you, the sizing is superb. They will even send a "trial pair" if you call and ask. They will customize just about anything you could possibly want. What more can I tell you? No, they are not too fashionable, but for work boots? None better and none a better value over time.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

cowboyjack said:


> White's Boots. BEST money you will ever spend on a very rugged pair of footwear. I have several pair, two Smokejumpers, and one Packer, ranging from 12 to 8 years old. If you measure carefully, just follow their directions, or have someone help you, the sizing is superb. They will even send a "trial pair" if you call and ask. They will customize just about anything you could possibly want. What more can I tell you? No, they are not too fashionable, but for work boots? None better and none a better value over time.


Thanks Jack - I was speaking with the guys at Baker's and they recommended that I have a pair shipped to try out for sizing - shipping (one way) is free so I can give that a shot. There's a 'Happy Feet' store in NM that I'm going to check out next time i'm in the area. The gentlemen I spoke with on the phone told me that he will help me measure with and without my orthotic. I think he has some regular stock in the store I can try on as well...

Would much rather deal with White's direct - we'll see what happens when I'm in NM.. Have anyone worked with Happy Feet?


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

mike147,
check the alden catalog for alden foot balance system-
86 black trubalance last-come in double and triple eee-


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

mcarthur said:


> mike147,
> check the alden catalog for alden foot balance system-
> 86 black trubalance last-come in double and triple eee-
> 
> Tom at Leathersoul recommended I try a 10EE on the Tru-Balance, based on my size for the Modified last. I just haven't found a bricks and mortar shop that has that size in stock for a try on.. Baker's has free shipping right now, might give it a shot.


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## tokyogator (Oct 24, 2008)

*Whites Boots on Ebay*

I have been looking to get a pair of the Whites Semi-dress. Does anyone have experience with those and how they look compared to a normal dress boot?

This seller on ebay seems to carry Whites overstock at very reasonable prices. There are also EE that pop up on occasion:
https://shop.ebay.com/whitesriver/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686


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## cowboyjack (May 18, 2008)

If Happy Feet is in Albuquerque, as I recall it is a pretty good store. Any store that actually carries Whites in stock should know how to measure for them.

I measured my Whites with my orthotic and the double pair of socks I wear with work boots. Worked out fine. I had them add higher heel counters on my second and third pair to accommodate my orthotic.

Whites take a little breaking in and your foot will feel different, but once there... most comfortable shoes I own, bar none.

I've seen the semi-dress in person... well, they are what they are. If I wanted a dressier pair of Whites I'd look to their nicer packers out of calfskin or bullhide.

Not to change the topic entirely, but if I ever needed another pair of Whites... which is not all that likely, as they are a lifetime investment, I'd go see Steve at Dubois Leather in Idaho.

Steve makes his own version of smokejumpers, packers, etc. Lots of Idaho wildland firefighters wear 'em, which is strong endorsement in my book. These men's lives sometimes depend on their footwear holding up and put more wear on a boot in a year than I do in ten.

I bought a pair of pull-on cowboy boots from Steve and found him to be an old fashioned craftsman that really knows what he is doing.

Although maybe I DO need a pair of dressy packers... hhhhmmmmm.

Dubois Leather & Shoe Company
Steve & Bev Gilger, Owners
183 W. Main
P.O. Box 142
Dubois, ID 83423
(208) 374-5490


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## cowboyjack (May 18, 2008)

Tokyogator,

p.s. Know nothing about that ebay seller, but Hathorns are NOT the same as Whites. Hathorns are fine boots, but they are sort of a cheaper version. Not nearly as full rebuildable as a pair of Whites, ask a wildland firefighter who has some.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

cowboyjack said:


> If Happy Feet is in Albuquerque, as I recall it is a pretty good store. Any store that actually carries Whites in stock should know how to measure for them.
> 
> I measured my Whites with my orthotic and the double pair of socks I wear with work boots. Worked out fine. I had them add higher heel counters on my second and third pair to accommodate my orthotic.
> 
> ...


What are heel counters Jack - seems like something i need to research more... I like the smoke jumpers - the pair in the link i listed above are 6" Smokejumpers with some Bakers Customization...I like them but have never seen them in person.

My orthotics are 3/4 length - fairly thick with a metatarsal pad up front. Does the archease make it tough to seat your orthotics? I have flat feet so need some arch support but I'm worried about too much 

I actually have an old pair that i am planning to send to White's with my measurements - very close in size to what i wear now in my shoes. Did you measure yourself or did a shop owner do it for you?

Sure hope happy feet has some in stock close to my size. There's a place in Sante Fe that just measures and orders - no stock  Thanks again Jack


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

*Update*

I spent some time at Happy Feet and had a follow up call with White's. In order to get a boot to accomodate my orthotics, I would need to get a boot built without the archease system - basically with a flat footbed and a block heel. Seems like it's not easy to get White's to do this and they are not accostomed to fitting customers with orthotics (they believe that the fit is so good with their boots that you don't need your orthotics). The guys at happy feet did not measure my feet with my orthotics, only without, so I don't understand how they are going to be able to get me the fit I need.

I called Wesco today and it seems that they fit quite a few customers that wear orthotics. They charge and additional $95 for this as a one time fee but will actually build up a stock last based on the measurements (with and without the orthotics) and build me a boot. Any severe foot deformities might require an additional charge but I don't fall into that category.

So I think it makes more sense for me to go with Wesco. Both boots are made well an made in the USA but wesco just seems to be more willing to accomodatey needs.

Will keep you posted as things progress. Thanks again for the advice.

Mike147


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## Pappa (Dec 2, 2007)

*Wesco Boots*

Mike---

I have worn Wesco boots for years and HIGHLY recommend them. The folks there will fit and treat you right!! Almost indestructible!!!


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## joeyzaza (Dec 9, 2005)

I like the look of their travelers boots. This company makes real work shoes. 

I have a pair of Alden Indys. They are comfortable and have held up great. I am wearing them right now. (Just don't wear them when walking on snow and ice). They are nice work shoes, but not as heavy duty as the whites appear.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

Anyone know what wesco boots look most similar to white's smokejumpers? Is it the jobmaster?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
The Jobmaster looks almost identical to White's Smoke jumpers. Wesco also offers a firefighters version of their Jobmaster...equipped with soles that provide additional protection from the heat and sewn together with Kevlar thread. Also take a look at the different design and soling options available...you can come up with a much more civilized version of the Jobmaster!


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## jhcam8 (Aug 26, 2008)

LL Bean Katahdin Iron Works Engineer Boots - an excellent value!

(sorry, the pic won't take)


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

I know a few guys in the California forest Service who have Wesco's. They look good. Mind you, they are even more rugged looking than Red Wings, so don't expect them to look right in the city. Also, remember that those heels are an inch and a half thick. Tends to look a bit effeminately high heeled if you don't have a Pulaski in hand.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

I spoke to the guys at Baker's Shoes in Oregon. They carry both White's and Wesco... The told me that they will work with either company to make me a custom (MTM) boot. These guys prefer White's - they simply do much more business with White's than Wesco.

White's Smokejumpers will need to be made on a Northwest Last with a single piece sole - like the Vibram 232... Boot will have a flat footbed and will accommodate an orthotic. Only way it's gonna work - no White's archease system...

Wesco will accommodate as well - but simply charges more for options... Custom option is $95 off the bat and the up-charges for custom items are higher. With Wesco - will need to do a one-piece sole as well.

Trying to figure out why Wesco charges $95 for MTM and White's doesn't charge anything. Do Wesco do a better / more thorough job getting a custom fit than White's?

I'm going to measure up and send off the Baker's - then will discuss all of my options with them.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Alas, costs seem to have gone up since I bought my last pair of Wescos! The MTM fee is a one time charge that I understood was intended to offset the additional set up costs for making boots specifically sized for your feet. Should you buy one, two or ten pair (over the years) you will see that charge just one time!


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

*Update on WESCO*

About 4-5 months ago - I ordered a pair of 8" Jobmasters - Lace-to-toe - with a slightly lowered heel. I worked with Pete and Ray from the custom-fit department. They recommended that I try lace-to-toe, over plain toe, as the lace-to-toe model would give me more flexibility in getting the right fit (more control). He also recommended a larger gusset, to aid in the insertion and removal of my custom orthotics.

About 4 weeks ago, I received my boots from WESCO for a mid-sole fitting. The boots basically came to me with uppers complete, glued onto a flat piece of leather. I brought them to my friend Ron at Moulded Shoe - He has fitted me many times for Alden Modified Last and other shoes (if you recall - Alden no longer makes boots in EEE on the Modified Last - so I can't buy another pair from Moulded). He thought they were a touch too short and needed to be a bit wider - but the depth was fine in the toe-box. I agreed with his assessment, tried them on a few additional times, and sent them back to WESCO with some notes.

Ray from WESCO called me back to discuss my issues - and agreed to make the boot 1/8 inch longer and a touch wider. My last was built up a bit more, and the boot was re-lasted and completed. They came in the mail this week and so far - so good - comfortable out the box but stiff like new boots should be and need breaking in... Tough to go running around with a new pair of 8" workboots in NY given the extreme heat we've been experiencing, so I'll likely break them over the next few months. Debating on whether or not to apply some of the bee oil that came with the boots while breaking them in - or just wear them. Happy to have a pair of nice workboots for many years to come....

If the fit works out well - I'd like to explore some other options with WESCO. I don't like the styling of the JH Classic Oxfords - wish they had a little more variety (White's has a nice oxford they sell thru Bakers and I like the semi-dress) - hoping WESCO can make some style modifications to the JH Classic but I'm not holding my breath. I would also consider a 6" Packer with a Toe-cap in Chromexcel - or maybe rough-out... we'll see how it goes! I'd love something to take the place of INDY Boots - which just aren't working out for me in terms of sizing.

Overall - a very good experience. I will post some pics in a few days and a follow up soon when I confirm comfort.


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## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Mike147 said:


> Debating on whether or not to apply some of the bee oil that came with the boots while breaking them in - or just wear them. Happy to have a pair of nice workboots for many years to come....


I have two pairs of White's (a pair of Packers and a Baker's Bounty Hunter). I just use Obenauf's Heavy Duty LP on them. I put a coat on the day after I received each pair, and every few wearings I'd put on another coat to really get it soaked in. Now they are about as waterproof as they are going to get. Now maybe every 15 wearings or so I'll put another coat on, especially where the leather flexes like near the toe and around the ankle. I just use my fingers to apply the Obenauf's to warm it a little so it really soaks in.

Andy B.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

*Pics of my Jobmasters*

Finally getting around to posting some pics..

8" Jobmaster in Oiled Brown with Vibram Sole - 2 Heel Lifts Lower. Custom fit with mid-sole fitting - that was really key for me. So far, fit is great but Hot NY weather has kept me from wearing them as often as I'd like.

I wish WESCO did more with Oxfords - Not a big fan of the JW Classic. Now that I have the fit about down, would love to get a pair of Shoes...


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## Valkyrie (Aug 27, 2009)

Very nice boots. Serious stuff. Thanks for posting the pictures and satisfying our curiosity.


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