# Vacuum sealed bags - okay for clothes?



## GITU (Mar 12, 2009)

Hi there,

Does anyone here use vacuum sealed bags for clothing? I have a bunch of older/less worn clothes that I'd like to store and I am considering vacuum sealed bags but I would like to know if they are okay to use with clothing (cotton, viz.)?

Advice?

Thanks!


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

If you use them as space-savers, e.g. you completely evacuate the air, they probably are NOT ok. Most natural-fiber clothes need some air and moisture to maintain their structure and integrity.

I use the vacuum bags for out-of-season clothes, but I only use them because they are as moth-proof as it's possible to get without chemical treatment. I don't use a vacuum to suck all the air out of them, and I periodically break the seal to allow air circulation.


----------



## GITU (Mar 12, 2009)

So, the bags will destroy cotton clothing if I vacuum seal them? Too bad -- I have no more space left in my house. 

What if I took out about 90% of the air, and left the rest in?


----------



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

GITU:

I use them for seasonal clothes - just put all my Holiday sweaters in several. I vacuum all the air out and haven't had any detrimental effects! Been doing it for years.

The "roll the air out" bags are great for travel.


----------



## JAGMAJ (Feb 10, 2005)

This is all just speculation unless someone has actually observed damage from using vacuum-sealed bags. Personally, I'd be surprised if they caused any damage. It might take time to for the clothes to fluff back up, however.


----------



## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

wool needs to breathe.


----------



## JAGMAJ (Feb 10, 2005)

a tailor said:


> wool needs to breathe.


Please forgive my ignorance, but what exactly happens to wool fibers that are kept in a vacuum-sealed environment?


----------



## Mazderati (Nov 28, 2010)

I'd also like to know. A link to some empirical evidence would be nice.


----------



## vatoemperor (Jun 15, 2008)

Is "breathing" allowing trapped moisture to escape? Removing the air probably removes most the moisture anyway. Probably best to pack them right after wearing them, and when it is not too humid.


----------



## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

I am not questioning Alex since clothing/materials are not my expertise. However, as someone in the medical field, I have never fully undestood exactly what it means for an inanimate object like wool, etc., to need to "breathe". I'm also not sure how it will be damaged if it is protected in a sealed environment. Does sealing the bag equate with removing moisture? Does sealing the bag equate with having the garments "dry out"?

I've used these bags for my kids college "stuff" for years including bedding, linens, pillows, bulky sweatshirts, etc., and they have worked wonderfully with no NOTED ill effects. Granted, none of these items are high end garments, but if Alex recommends I avoid this practice for high end clothing I will trust his advice. I'd just be more satisfied if the questions I asked above were answered. Thanks.


----------



## stubloom (Jun 6, 2010)

Yes, Alex is right. But there are really 2 issues associated with "Space Bags" involved here....

1. MATERIALS USED FOR STORAGE MUST PERMIT THE GARMENT TO "BREATHE"

All fabrics, both natural and synthetic, need to "breathe". Specifically, wools need to breathe during both short and long term storage because wool is hydroscopic, meaning that wool has the unique ability to attract and absorb moisture from the air.

At any point in time, anywhere from 5% to 50% of the WEIGHT of a wool garment is moisture, depending on the indoor and outdoor atmospheric conditions (think Florida vs Arizona in the summer).

Care to speculate as to the possible consequence of storing your moisture laden, cream colored Loro Piana cashmere sweater in an air tight "space bag" for a period of say 6 months?

2. MATERIALS USED FOR STORAGE SHOULD NOT BE ACIDIC IN NATURE

Garments should be cleaned prior to storage (the female adult moth loves uncleaned garments!) and stored in materials that are not acidic in nature. Why? Because acidic materials degrade over time and off-gas (or release) acids. And when those acids come into physical contact with your garments, your garments could yellow and/or deteriorate.

So now the question becomes: which materials are acidic in nature? Here's a short list...

* Nylon or vinyl zip-up suit bags that you got from your clothing retailer or tailor. These bags are not chemically inert (chemically inert materials do NOT degrade over time and off-gas acids).

* Cotton zip-up suit bags with clear plastic fronts. Cotton is a step in the right direction but the plastic is not chemically inert.

* Canvas zip-up suit bags with clear plastic fronts. Same as above.

* Dry cleaner plastic bags. Dry cleaner plastic bags serve one function: to protect your garments from dust at the cleaners and in transit to your home. Never store anything in dry cleaner plastic bags unless you plan on wearing the garment in the short term.

* Cedar everything (blocks, rings, hangers, oil, chests and even cedar closets. Next to mahogany, there is no wood that's more acidic than the much revered cedar.

* Polypropylene boxes (aka Rubbermaid or Sterilite). Not chemically inert.

* Zip lock bags. Again, not chemically inert.

And, of course, Space Bags. And, you guessed it, they're not chemically inert.

Now, I know that I'll get some responses telling me that "Iv'e stored my sweaters in zip lock bags for years with no adverse consequences or consequences that I am aware of". To this I say that your been lucky and that your'e entitled to your opinion. As the late Senator Patrick Moynihan used to say: Your'e entitled to your own opinion, but your'e not entitled to your own facts.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

stubloom said:


> Yes, Alex is right. But there are really 2 issues associated with "Space Bags" involved here....
> 
> 1. MATERIALS USED FOR STORAGE MUST PERMIT THE GARMENT TO "BREATHE"
> 
> ...


Gee, that eliminates quite a lot.

Got any suggestions as to what s OK to store clothes in (I was just about to get some of those plastic boxes...)


----------



## Mazderati (Nov 28, 2010)

stubloom said:


> Specifically, wools need to breathe during both short and long term storage because wool is hydroscopic, meaning that wool has the unique ability to attract and absorb moisture from the air.
> 
> At any point in time, anywhere from 5% to 50% of the WEIGHT of a wool garment is moisture, depending on the indoor and outdoor atmospheric conditions (think Florida vs Arizona in the summer).
> 
> ...


I think you meant to say hygroscopic. Three other sources suggest wool may absorb up to 30% of its weight in moisture: Source 1, , and Source 3, with absorption depending, at least in part, on the lanolin content.

I understand mold to need all three of food, water, and oxygen to grow. So, at least in theory, an airtight bag with no oxygen should prohibit growth of mold. Link.

I'd also like to know the preferred method and media of storing clothes.


----------



## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

stubloom said:


> Now, I know that I'll get some responses telling me that "Iv'e stored my sweaters in zip lock bags for years with no adverse consequences or consequences that I am aware of". To this I say that your been lucky and that your'e entitled to your opinion. As the late Senator Patrick Moynihan used to say: Your'e entitled to your own opinion, but your'e not entitled to your own facts.


But a chemical process isn't random, like Russian roulette. If the conditions are X, Y, and Z, the process occurs. So if someone truly stored their sweaters in plastic bags and had no problem, that's a relevant bit of factual data.

I understand I'm not the fabric care expert here. I'm not claiming to know that plastic is safe, just giving a little push-back on the logic of the argument. If it's a given that some people have used non-inert storage containers with no noticeable ill effects, then I'd like to hear from someone whose garment DID discolor from being stored in plastic--to get a sense of whether it's a live risk or just theoretical.


----------



## AcridSaint (Jan 5, 2011)

My understanding of the "breathing" is to allow air circulation through the garment in order to prevent moisture build up. Maybe I'm mistaken here. I would think that if the garment were hung and allowed to "breathe" for a period of time prior to vacuum sealing then one could avoid any sweating that it might do in the bag. With bags that are not vacuum sealed, a garment could sweat and/or wick in moisture from the humid air and the bag would trap moisture leading to mold, rot, perhaps staining, etc. 

Wouldn't it also be possible for one to vacuum pack the garments with desiccant to help avoid any moisture problems? It would need to be newly purchased desiccant or reconstituted, but I would think it should be quite effective.


----------



## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

This discussion was interesting. So I did a quick google to see what other people thought.

This one person seems to have a good idea, if true. . The theory being that the moths won't eat through the cotton. The article also says paper bags work too. The article also backs up the theory of non-circulation and plastic.

Personally, I still don't get the breathing part, but I'll trust the experts.


----------



## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

I have nothing but logic to back this up but....

As long as the items were dry when they were put into the bags they are not going to get wet in a sealed vacuum packed bag (as long as the bags do not leak the moisture content will not change and therefore the item cannot absorb moisture that does not exist). If they were not dry your household vacuum is not a perfect vacuum (there is still air in the bag so if they were packed wet you may get mold growth--but maybe at a slower rate than say in a plastic box). (yes I know %humidity will change with temp but the total "amount" of moisture is constant).

No idea as to the non-inertness of the plastic itself, really depends on which plastic is used.

I have never put high end wool items in a vacuum bag (too worried about permanent creasing, maybe for no good reason) but I have linens, never a problem with mold. In dry--out dry.


----------



## Mazderati (Nov 28, 2010)

This suggests a non-acidic, lignin-free box, drawer, or chest lined with unbleached white muslin, 100% cotton sheets as the most ideal storage medium for garments. The same site also suggests mylar and polyethylene plastics as suitable liners. Links to archival materials are provided.


----------



## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

stubloom said:


> Now, I know that I'll get some responses telling me that "Iv'e stored my sweaters in zip lock bags for years with no adverse consequences or consequences that I am aware of". To this I say that your been lucky and that your'e entitled to your opinion. As the late Senator Patrick Moynihan used to say: Your'e entitled to your own opinion, but your'e not entitled to your own facts.


Empirical data could solve this. Do you have pictures of garments that have been ruined by long term storage in a space bag?

My own anecdotal evidence suggests space bags are fine for woolens. I routinely store my wool sweaters in space bags April - September. No damage that I have been able to discern in 4 years.


----------



## JAGMAJ (Feb 10, 2005)

harvey_birdman said:


> Empirical data could solve this. Do you have pictures of garments that have been ruined by long term storage in a space bag?
> 
> My own anecdotal evidence suggests space bags are fine for woolens. I routinely store my wool sweaters in space bags April - September. No damage that I have been able to discern in 4 years.


I don't even require a picture. I'd just like to hear from one person who has actually observed damage (however minimal) when storing wool in a vacuum-sealed bag. I'm not disputing the theories that people are putting forward, but so far, several people have reported storing items for several months in these bags with no issues, but nobody has reported having any damage whatsoever.


----------



## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

AcridSaint said:


> My understanding of the "breathing" is to allow air circulation through the garment in order to prevent moisture build up. Maybe I'm mistaken here. I would think that if the garment were hung and allowed to "breathe" for a period of time prior to vacuum sealing then one could avoid any sweating that it might do in the bag. With bags that are not vacuum sealed, a garment could sweat and/or wick in moisture from the humid air and the bag would trap moisture leading to mold, rot, perhaps staining, etc.
> 
> Wouldn't it also be possible for one to vacuum pack the garments with desiccant to help avoid any moisture problems? It would need to be newly purchased desiccant or reconstituted, but I would think it should be quite effective.


The information I've seen is that it's best for archival purposes to store textiles in an environment at roughly 50-percent relative humidity both to prevent mold and to prevent damage to the fibers from drying out.

I live in a part of San Francisco near the coast. It's cold, damp, and foggy much of the time. Things that get wet tend to stay wet and mold forms pretty easily. I have things that are sensitive to humidity like carbon steel knives, mechanical cameras, photographs, and guitars. I use reusable silica gel (with indicators) for humidity control. I also have a hygrometer for humidity measurement. I bought a lot of these packets and cannisters years ago and also use them in my sweater boxes since I have extras. Don't let the silica gel come in contact with anything. You can use acid-free paper or whatever else is safe as a barrier to prevent contact.

You could wrap an item in acid-free paper before vacuum-packing it to prevent contact with the bag but what I wonder about is whether the bag emits vapors that would cause a problem.


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

After reading all the responses, I decided to ask an expert in the field. My wife has a PhD in Fiber and Polymer Science, bestowed by the College of Textiles at North Carolina State University. The eminent Frau Doktor had this to say:

1. Vacuum doesn't hurt. Storing wool and other natural fibers in an air-evacuated bag will not harm the cloth, as it is essentially inert, and evacuating the air with a home vacuum cleaner will not increase dessication enough to make any difference.

2. The material the bag or storage unit is made of definitely can make a difference. As stubloom said, plastics will outgas, and the chemicals outgassed could have subtle to grossly negative effects on the storage material. The only way to know for sure would be to know the composition of the plastic, and/or run tests. She did tell me she had been meaning to mention this to me, because I use the Space Bags for some of my suits 

3. The compression effects of the vacuum bag can be a problem. This was her second concern. Sucking the air out will compress the fibers. They will uncompress when removed from the vacuum, but the time it takes to uncompress is pretty much equal to the time the garment spent in the bag. So, if you store a suit for six months in in a fully-evacuated bag, it will take six months for the suit to fully uncompress.


----------



## stubloom (Jun 6, 2010)

For the purposes of storing garments during the off season, I'd suggest one of two options:

1. Breathable suit bag with side or front zipper made of cotton

2. Breathable suit bag with side or front zipper made of man-made fibers.

As regards #2, some retailers have, within the past 2 years, substituted man-made fibers for the traditional vinyl or nylon bags you receive when you buy a suit. The advantage of both these bags is that they can be washed in a home washer when they become slightly dusty. 

Archival chests that are lignin free, sulphur free, chlorine free, etc. and lined with unbleached, unsized cotton muslin sheets wouldn't be practical for season storage but would be most appropriate if you were storing an heirloom or vintage garment or household textile over the long term. In that event, you'd want to clean before you store (unless cleaning would damage the textile in some manner).


----------



## GITU (Mar 12, 2009)

What an awesome thread! Thank you everyone for the replies! I bought some space bags after reading so many negative reviews, so I think I may even return them after trying one (with non-clothing items).

What about using some old frette top sheets I have, lining them around my wood shelves to store sweaters on top of them (inside a closet). Or, similiarly, the same lining inside large plastic containers to store both wool and cotton clothes?

Also, besides moth balls (I am told they smell bad), what can I put in my closet to keep away moths (and any other insects, if possible)?

Thanks!


----------



## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

GITU said:


> I bought some space bags after reading so many negative reviews, so I think I may even return them after trying one (with non-clothing items).


Surely you have an old unwanted wool sweater you can put in a bag right now and give us a report next year.



GITU said:


> Also, besides moth balls (I am told they smell bad), what can I put in my closet to keep away moths (and any other insects, if possible)?


I've always been a fan of cedar. It has a rather strong scent (not as strong as mothballs), but I consider it to be a pleasant scent.


----------



## GITU (Mar 12, 2009)

Thanks!

Another question re cedar: I was in Home Depot yesterday when looking to design my closet (looking at organization systems)... I saw a lot of cedar wood sheets. 

What is the purpose? Is it useful to hang those cedar wood sheet throughout the entire closet? Or what's the deal?

Thanks again!


----------



## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

GITU said:


> I was in Home Depot yesterday when... I saw a lot of cedar wood sheets.
> 
> What is the purpose?


See this Article. It would appear that mothballs can kill moths and larvae, while cedar acts as a mild deterrent to adult moths.

I have stored sweaters in a cedar closet for much of my life. I have also stored sweaters in cardboard boxes without any other form of protection. To date, only two of my sweaters ever had holes in them. One was my favorite wool sweater and one was a seldom-worn rayon cotton blend.:icon_scratch:


----------



## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

Although lots of people say that cedar is a deterrent for moths I take it with a grain of salt. We had a moth outbreak a year ago and more than a few times I saw moths sitting on cedar shoe trees (no larvae there just an adult taking a break). 

I still like lining closets for other reasons.


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

The idea behind cedar as a moth "deterrent" is that strong, non-body odors mask the scents that clothes moths use to find suitable nutrients for their larvae. Any material with a strong odor works just as well. Other things like dried lavender work too, for instance. Most people find the cedar smell to be pleasant, and it's not messy, which is why it became popular. For some reason, it also gained a reputation as a moth repellent, which isn't correct. 

If the cedar smell is strong, moths will have a harder time finding your clothes. If the cedar smell has faded because the wood is old/dried out, cedar isn't any better at preventing moth attacks than any other inert material.


----------



## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

Racer said:


> The idea behind cedar as a moth "deterrent" is that strong, non-body odors mask the scents that clothes moths use to find suitable nutrients for their larvae. Any material with a strong odor works just as well. Other things like dried lavender work too, for instance. Most people find the cedar smell to be pleasant, and it's not messy, which is why it became popular. For some reason, it also gained a reputation as a moth repellent, which isn't correct.
> 
> If the cedar smell is strong, moths will have a harder time finding your clothes. If the cedar smell has faded because the wood is old/dried out, cedar isn't any better at preventing moth attacks than any other inert material.


Now that makes much more sense!


----------

