# Non-traditional shell cordovan colors



## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

The most common colors for shell cordovan are Color #8 and black, but there are many others. A dark brown color that Alden calls cigar is becoming more and more common (at least, it seems to be); and although they are hard to come by, one will sometimes see what Alden calls Whiskey (tan) and Ravello (mid-brown). 

How about other colors? I have seen a Borgioli swatch card that also showed shell cordovan in navy blue, forest green, a lighter burgundy called Color #4, and three Scotch grain colors (brandy, forest green, and Color #8, if memory serves). I own a pair of shoes in navy blue, and I have seen pictures of shoes made up in green and brandy Scotch grain. Does anybody know of any other colors? And are these non-traditional colors as rare as Whiskey and Ravello?

I'm particularly intrigued by the Scotch grains...


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

> I'm particularly intrigued by the Scotch grains


I'd love to see that!

Apparrently Horween isn't presently producing Ravello and no one seems to know when more Ravello shoes will be forthcoming.

Other browns and a color 4 would be great if they were more available. I'm not ready for green shoes-yet.:icon_smile_big:


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

yachtie said:


> I'd love to see that!


Here's and Alden shoe in brandy Scotch grain shell cordovan pictured on centipede's awesome shoe porn website.



> Apparrently Horween isn't presently producing Ravello and no one seems to know when more Ravello shoes will be forthcoming.


What a pity, what a pity.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Hmmmm...I may be wrong but #4 may be what Alden called Mahogany, which they no longer use. I've seen Navy on loafers as well as Violet, but those are mainly found in the Europe market which is another totally different beast, just as the Japan market is.

Although it seems as though Cigar is becoming common, let me verify the opposite. Cigar is still in limited supply and mostly available to select Alden retailers.

I believe Europe is a totally different story as far as shell supplies however.

Japanese shell is also a different story. If you visit such stores as Isetan, you'll find many different makers of shell leathergoods, using all sorts of colors and shades. The quality is definately lesser than Horween's though.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

LeatherSOUL said:


> Hmmmm...I may be wrong but #4 may be what Alden called Mahogany, which they no longer use. I've seen Navy on loafers as well as Violet, but those are mainly found in the Europe market which is another totally different beast, just as the Japan market is.


I wouldn't be surprised if the violet that you've seen is Color #4. It certainly has a purple tinge.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

jcusey said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the violet that you've seen is Color #4. It certainly has a purple tinge.


It was really violet...I mean purple, eggplant, dark Barney.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Man, those Scotch-grain shoes of centipede's are _awesome_. I've only seen the swatches before (I have them on my other [presently broken] computer) and always wanted to see shoes made with Scotch-grain shell. Nice.

You guys have seen more colors than I. Violet, huh? Wow. I've been waiting to see more variations of brown (look at the spectrum of browns in calf!), and I thought I might see the occasional navy or green. But what about red..._really red_? I'm surprised that hasn't come up.

PS: jcusey, what brand are your navy shell shoes?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Teacher said:


> Man, those Scotch-grain shoes of centipede's are _awesome_. I've only seen the swatches before (I have them on my other [presently broken] computer) and always wanted to see shoes made with Scotch-grain shell. Nice.


Can you just imagine Alden making up a pair of scotch-grain, cordovan long wings? That would be a pair of "must haves!"


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

LeatherSOUL said:


> It was really violet...I mean purple, eggplant, dark Barney.


I can see the copy on your next Special Edition: "These U-tips are really violet. I mean purple, eggplant, dark Barney!" :icon_smile_wink:



Teacher said:


> But what about red..._really red_? I'm surprised that hasn't come up.
> 
> PS: jcusey, what brand are your navy shell shoes?


Carmina has (or had) a color of shell cordovan that was described to me as being tomato red, but I've never seen a picture.

My navy shell cordovan shoes were made by Martegani.



eagle2250 said:


> Can you just imagine Alden making up a pair of scotch-grain, cordovan long wings? That would be a pair of "must haves!"


That would be some shoe!


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

There is a whole range of colors lurking in even the darkest - Alden's current aubergine #8 or black - shell cordovan. 

If you look at the reverse side, the tip of the tongue or the inside of unlined shells, it's clear that the dye doesn't penetrate the leather. A scratch on #8 reveals a much lighter tone. With wear and exposure to sunlight this pallete emerges beautifully. My most-worn shells are a pair of AE Hinsdales purchased a decade ago. They started out as AE's chocolate-burgundy #8. Now they range from very dark brown all the way up to a 'whiskey' shade in areas of greatest rubbing such as the heel counter and cross strap. My Alden black shells have a green-brown undertone. 

It's worth the wait.


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

jcusey said:


> Here's and Alden shoe in brandy Scotch grain shell cordovan pictured on centipede's awesome shoe porn website.


Ouch. Those look like a take on Vass' Norweger by some Chinese manufacturer using the finest vinyl plastic available on the mainland.

I just don't get the horse leather thing...


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

MarkusH said:


> I just don't get the horse leather thing...


Oh, well....:icon_smile_wink:


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> Can you just imagine Alden making up a pair of scotch-grain, cordovan long wings? That would be a pair of "must haves!"


SOLD! I sure hope someone from Alden is reading this thread! We are their best customers, after all.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

I'd be in for a pair of chukkas or indie boots in the stuff!


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Here's a pic of my Scotch Grain #8 Norwegian Split Toes from the Today's Footwear thread...I actually am wearing them today, inspired by this thread, but too lazy to take a new pic for today.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

*non traditional shell cordovan colors*



LeatherSOUL said:


> Here's a pic of my Scotch Grain #8 Norwegian Split Toes from the Today's Footwear thread...I actually am wearing them today, inspired by this thread, but too lazy to take a new pic for today.


LeatherSoul-
Thank you for posting. Good looking shoes especially with the scotch grain shell cordovan


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Nice, LeatherSOUL! Those are gorgeous.

And yes, eagle, I'd salivate over something like that, Homer Simpson style!


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

well-kept said:


> There is a whole range of colors lurking in even the darkest - Alden's current aubergine #8 or black - shell cordovan.
> 
> If you look at the reverse side, the tip of the tongue or the inside of unlined shells, it's clear that the dye doesn't penetrate the leather. A scratch on #8 reveals a much lighter tone. With wear and exposure to sunlight this pallete emerges beautifully. My most-worn shells are a pair of AE Hinsdales purchased a decade ago. They started out as AE's chocolate-burgundy #8. Now they range from very dark brown all the way up to a 'whiskey' shade in areas of greatest rubbing such as the heel counter and cross strap. My Alden black shells have a green-brown undertone.
> 
> It's worth the wait.


You touch on a good point. Because shell is so impermeable, it is very hard to dye, and it almost impossible to dye it uniformly. Even in a single lot of shells, I am told, you will see a lot of color variation, and there may be irregularities of in shade even on an individual shell.


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## arenn (Dec 29, 2003)

Somebody one time posted a swatch image of the various colors. I uploaded it to flicker. Here's a link:

https://farm1.static.flickr.com/134/400109494_6e745254db_o.jpg

If somebody wants to hotlink this, knock yourself out. The quality isn't the greatest, but beggars can't be choosers.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Thanks Arenn!


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

John,

According to that pic, I think #4 is what Alden called "Mahogany."


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Here's whiskey- arrived today:icon_smile_big:


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

I wonder how much tweaking of color is possible downstream. I've seen cordovans at Lattanzi that are quite distinctive, and to my eye much more beautiful than what Alden does. [Of course, at 10x the price for MTM, they should be nice.]

Anyway, there is a pair of #8 wing-tips in their Madison Avenue store that is quite a bit more brown than I recall Alden #8s being. Might be a trick of the lights, but it does appear to be different.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

LeatherSOUL said:


> According to that pic, I think #4 is what Alden called "Mahogany."


That looks like the swatch card that I have seen, and it's apparent that I misremembered about Color #4. Still a nice color, though, isn't it?

BTW, do you know why Alden no longer offers Mahogany shell cordovan? Did Horween stop making it, or could Alden just not get it in sufficient quantities? I'm still kicking myself for not picking up the Alden of Carmel's wingtip bals in mahogany shell cordovan when I had the chance.



yachtie said:


> Here's whiskey- arrived today:icon_smile_big:


Nice looking shoes, yachtie. If you don't mind my asking, where did you get them?


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## SGladwell (Dec 22, 2005)

jcusey said:


> Here's and Alden shoe in brandy Scotch grain shell cordovan pictured on centipede's awesome shoe porn website.


Oh, wow.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

jcusey said:


> Nice looking shoes, yachtie. If you don't mind my asking, where did you get them?


Thank you, jcusey. Alden Shoe shop NYC


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

yachtie said:


> Thank you, jcusey. Alden Shoe shop NYC


Thanks, yachtie. The one on Madison near Brooks Brothers? I'll need to check it out when I am in the New York next week.


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## AlonzoMosely2 (Oct 19, 2006)

Yachtie, what last are those? They sure don't look like the Barrie. I am going to get a pair if they make them in a last that fits me.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

AlonzoMosely2 said:


> Yachtie, what last are those? They sure don't look like the Barrie. I am going to get a pair if they make them in a last that fits me.


They're on Aberdeen. (Barrie doesn't fit me well either)

jcusey- yes 344 madison. They have several styles in whiskey, but only a couple in my size Glad this was one of them as it's my favorite one in #8. If you get something please post it:icon_smile:


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

*non traditional shell cordovan colors*



yachtie said:


> Here's whiskey- arrived today:icon_smile_big:


yachtie,
Thank you for posting a picture
Good looking shoes


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

THat's a nice looking model. Should be brilliant with tan twill trousers and whatever else goes with that. For some reason, I had always assumed they were made from calf, and by Allen-Edmonds.


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## arenn (Dec 29, 2003)

I've got the Alden of Carmel Masterworks Special Reserve in whiskey (the long wing blucher on the Barrie last). That is certainly one of the most unique colors out there and very attractive too, if I must say so myself. The only downside to whiskey is the difficulty of getting it.


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## PittDoc (Feb 24, 2007)

First post so please excuse my ignorance. Love the forum and it clearly helped guide my purchase this week.

I'm the proud owner of a pair of shell cordovan, straight tip bal oxfords in "burnished walnut." Alden of NYC tells me only they only get 12 pair a year. Model 9064. My limited experience and some online research suggests these are uncommon. These are my 3rd pair of Aldens but clearly the most beautiful. IMHO.

As an added bonus, my experience and service with the father and son team at the Alden store was exemplary and entertaining. Think American Chopper but with shoes. Great shopping experience.

If anyone is interested I could post some pics.


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## arenn (Dec 29, 2003)

Shoe photos are always most welcome in my book


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

PittDoc said:


> If anyone is interested I could post some pics.


Please do.:icon_smile_big: Welcome to the Forum PittDoc!



> ...burnished walnut..


Wanna bet it's really Cigar? If not, I'm making another call...


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Oh, *yachtie*, you temptor you! You make me want to spend money Mrs. Teacher would really, really not like. As I've said several times, whiskey shell is my favorite shell color by a long shot, and your pic does _nothing_ to ebb my yearnings!:devil: Great shoes; enjoy them in good health.

*PittDoc*: Welcome! Pics?


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

I absolutely am in love with that grain shell cordovan, when was that offered? Beautiful shoes Leathersoul.

I have the typical Alden color 8 shells, as well as a pir of the C&J dark brown ones, and they're great. Is the C&J brown the same as what Alden calls "cigar"? Looks similar, and I believe they both source from Horween, correct?


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

jcusey said:


> Here's and Alden shoe in brandy Scotch grain shell cordovan pictured on centipede's awesome shoe porn website.
> 
> What a pity, what a pity.


I love Aldens, scotch grain, brandy color and shell cordovan, and was figuratively licking my shoe chops when I read the post, then I clicked on the link... I'm sorry, but I think those shoes look like a bad job of over-corrected grain finished off with a high-gloss polyurethane.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

yachtie said:


> Here's whiskey- arrived today:icon_smile_big:


Now these are simply sinfully gorgeous!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Those are a very handsome pair of shoes indeed yachtie! Wear them in good health.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

rip said:


> I love Aldens, scotch grain, brandy color and shell cordovan, and was figuratively licking my shoe chops when I read the post, then I clicked on the link... I'm sorry, but I think those shoes look like a bad job of over-corrected grain finished off with a high-gloss polyurethane.


To be honest, they're not my favorites, either. I can't decide how much of it is the appearance of the grain shell cordovan and how much of it is the last (Modified, I think), which I don't think is attractive at all. LeatherSOUL's Color #8 Scotch grains look much better to me.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

jcusey said:


> To be honest, they're not my favorites, either. I can't decide how much of it is the appearance of the grain shell cordovan and how much of it is the last (Modified, I think), which I don't think is attractive at all. LeatherSOUL's Color #8 Scotch grains look much better to me.


They really do look like they're made on the Modified Last, Split-Toe -- I see the footbalance heel in a few of the pics. Looks to me like the high-gloss may be a result of the way he is shining the shoes. I see a little white in some of the pics - may have a ton of wax polish on them with a spit-shine..


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## .38Special (May 1, 2006)

That Whiskey/Brandy color is gorgeous ! 

I'm eager to buy a pair of Crockett & Jones Harvard in that tone for spring/summer season. But unfortunately Shyam at P.Lal cannot stock those as they seem reserved to C&J's official stores and mail order service. 

Anyone knows where I could get them with some discount ?


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## PittDoc (Feb 24, 2007)

PittDoc said:


> ...I'm the proud owner of a pair of shell cordovan, straight tip bal oxfords in "burnished walnut." Alden of NYC tells me only they only get 12 pair a year. Model 9064. My limited experience and some online research suggest these are uncommon. These are my 3rd pair of Alden's but clearly the most beautiful, IMHO.


Here is a picture, as promised. I'm interested in what others think the official color is. ImageShack lost some golden-red in the translation. It definitely has a "burnished" quality and you will notice some variation in color in the area between the toe cap and laces. I'd like to think this is a natural characteristic of shell cordovan; maybe somebody just spilled something on them. Fortunately, it is not noticeable under normal conditions.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Gorgeous, PittDoc! That's certainly not Cigar, which is considerably darker. I can't tell from the pic if it's #4 or not. Whatever it is, me likey.


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## Don Goldstein (Dec 25, 2005)

I have a pair of Alden of Carmel AF21's wing tip's in whiskey cordovan in 10D that I have not worn. Maybe I should sell them for a huge markup since they are impossible to get .


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

After noticing what C&J and others offer in shell colors, I wonder if the rarity of the lighter shades is a bit overstated.

Now clearly Alden is a major buyer and therefore maybe the numbers are, in fact, correct, but I have detected a hint of stubborness from Alden when it comes to the topic of lighter hued browns in shell.

Now how about a Vass custom in a lighter shade of shell?!?!?! Flight to Budapest, anyone?


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## arenn (Dec 29, 2003)

Is that the mysterious Ravello by any chance?


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

PittDoc said:


> Here is a picture, as promised. I'm interested in what others think the official color is.


I'm 99.999% sure it's whiskey. It kind of looks different because of the dark mahogany heel and edgetrim. I own a pair of whiskey George Boots that look the same. Also, I do believe they may be older as the more recent whiskey shells look a bit different. Any chance of looking inside and telling us what the first number in the sequence above the size is?


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

PittDoc said:


> Here is a picture, as promised. I'm interested in what others think the official color is.


It sure looks like Ravello to me- The black sole edge and heel is like my plain toe bluchers. Defintely not Cigar- that always scans greenish on my monitor. Hmmm. They did say they had captoe bals in whisky but the color sure looks Ravello. That lightening on the vamp is what happens when shell flexes- the folds are lighter (opposite of calfskin)

They're beautiful shoes Pitt. Congratulations!


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

By the way, the number "4" at the end of the style number, "9064" is used for a lot of whiskey shoes.


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## PittDoc (Feb 24, 2007)

LeatherSOUL said:


> I'm 99.999% sure it's whiskey. It kind of looks different because of the dark mahogany heel and edgetrim. I own a pair of whiskey George Boots that look the same. Also, I do believe they may be older as the more recent whiskey shells look a bit different. Any chance of looking inside and telling us what the first number in the sequence above the size is?


Numbers on the inside:

7 1/2 2?29 026 2

B/D 9073

The second digit is unintelligible to me. Same on both shoes. Nothing above the size just to the right of it. According to the retailer these were from an order placed 1 year ago, but who knows.

On a more practical note, wore them tonight for the first time - great fit, great feel. Regardless of color.


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## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

Oh, I'm a sucker for horse's ass. Please stop this! I cannot afford a pair of these!



yachtie said:


> It sure looks like Ravello to me- The black sole edge and heel is like my plain toe bluchers. Defintely not Cigar- that always scans greenish on my monitor. Hmmm. They did say they had captoe bals in whisky but the color sure looks Ravello. That lightening on the vamp is what happens when shell flexes- the folds are lighter (opposite of calfskin)
> 
> They're beautiful shoes Pitt. Congratulations!


I agree here looks a little dark to be Whiskey.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

*And the winner for the mystery shoe color is...*

*Leathersoul!*

9064 is whiskey- according to Alden NYC.
Congratulations Leathersoul!


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Yes, I figured so. Those shoes were also probably made in 2002 which may be the reason for the difference in shade versus whiskey shoes made in 2006 or 2007. I have a pair of whiskey boots from 2003 that are that same shade.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

*non-traditional shell cordovan shoes*



LeatherSOUL said:


> Yes, I figured so. Those shoes were also probably made in 2002 which may be the reason for the difference in shade versus whiskey shoes made in 2006 or 2007. I have a pair of whiskey boots from 2003 that are that same shade.


LeatherSoul-
When you have the opportunity, could you post a picture of your boots in whiskey shell cordovan from 2002?


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

mcarthur said:


> LeatherSoul-
> When you have the opportunity, could you post a picture of your boots in whiskey shell cordovan from 2002?


Seconded.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

mcarthur said:


> LeatherSoul-
> When you have the opportunity, could you post a picture of your boots in whiskey shell cordovan from 2002?





Teacher said:


> Seconded.


See :


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Man John, you are too good!


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## boehmri (Jan 27, 2007)

According to Citishoes, an Alden 9073 is a cigar shell cap-toe bal.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

boehmri said:


> According to Citishoes, an Alden 9073 is a cigar shell cap-toe bal.


PittDoc-

You originally posted "9064," but then posted that "9073" was written in the shoe. Which is it? If the shoe is indeed 9073, the picture was definately miscolored/hued as cigar definately does not look like the picture you posted. Hmmmm, the mystery and suspense continues...


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## Bic Pentameter (Jan 12, 2004)

I have a pair of Grenson squared toe bluchers I purchased at Isetan last summer. They are in Whiskey shell cordovan. I was quite surprised to see Grenson work in shell,but I believe that they may have been a sample.

Also, just last December, Isetan had a large selection of Meermin Mallorca shell cordovan shoes in green, navy, and a dark brown. I bought a pair of bluchers in navy shell cordovan. Barney's New York had matching cordovan navy belts, but none in my size.

I am still looking for a navy shell belt to go with them.

Bic


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## PittDoc (Feb 24, 2007)

LeatherSOUL said:


> PittDoc- You originally posted "9064," but then posted that "9073" was written in the shoe. Which is it?


Indeed - I had not noticed the discrepency until now but the BOX has 9064 on it but the SHOES are labeled with 9073. I suppose the shoes' markings are the ones to be believed. Compared to your whiskey boots (which BTW are very attractive) mine seem a little more red. I've included a couple more pics with different lighting, these images are closer to the real thing than the previous post.


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## PittDoc (Feb 24, 2007)

boehmri said:


> According to Citishoes, an Alden 9073 is a cigar shell cap-toe bal.


Thanks boehmri - I think you are right. The box/shoe number mismatch caused some confusion.

Another question - Alden of NYC sent Kiwi mid-tan shoe polish. Paste-type. Is this the right one to use?


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

PittDoc said:


> Another question - Alden of NYC sent Kiwi mid-tan shoe polish. Paste-type. Is this the right one to use?


Yes. Don't use too much, only apply once every 10 or so wearings. For a quick touch up, use a slightly damp soft cloth and give your shoes a quick wipe down before you leave the house.

Now, your new pictures make them look Ravello to me...still definately not cigar...but since they're from '02, heck maybe they're Mahogany.


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## PittDoc (Feb 24, 2007)

LeatherSOUL said:


> Now, your new pictures make them look Ravello to me...still definately not cigar...but since they're from '02, heck maybe they're Mahogany.


Thanks for all the info everyone. It's been both informative and entertaining. Your the expert LeatherSOUL, maybe I'll refer to them as "Ravehogany."


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

.38Special said:


> That Whiskey/Brandy color is gorgeous !
> 
> I'm eager to buy a pair of Crockett & Jones Harvard in that tone for spring/summer season. But unfortunately Shyam at P.Lal cannot stock those as they seem reserved to C&J's official stores and mail order service.
> 
> Anyone knows where I could get them with some discount ?


I don't know about a discount, but Ben Silver has them in his catalog.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

rip said:


> I don't know about a discount, but Ben Silver has them in his catalog.


It's worth noting that the mid-brown shell cordovan version (was it Whiskey or Ravello?) is no longer shown on the Crockett & Jones website. I wonder if this is an accidental omission or if they have stopped producing it.


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## bigbris1 (Jan 24, 2007)

LeatherSOUL said:


> It was really violet...I mean purple, eggplant, dark Barney.


This is worth typing LOL...heck, this is signature material!


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

bigbris1 said:


> This is worth typing LOL...heck, this is signature material!


I agree. I give anyone permission to use it!


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## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

bigbris1 said:


> This is worth typing LOL...heck, this is signature material!


Viola(sic)


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## bigbris1 (Jan 24, 2007)

LeatherSOUL said:


> I agree. I give anyone permission to use it!


Thanks!


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

jcusey said:


> It's worth noting that the mid-brown shell cordovan version (was it Whiskey or Ravello?) is no longer shown on the Crockett & Jones website. I wonder if this is an accidental omission or if they have stopped producing it.


They are present in the latest catalog from C&J. Both whiskey and dark brown were in C&J swatch book for MTO. Maybe C&J is trying to dedicate more of that color to RL offerings?


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## jml90 (Dec 7, 2005)

bigbris1 said:


> Thanks!


Haha do you want it?


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

hreljan said:


> They are present in the latest catalog from C&J. Both whiskey and dark brown were in C&J swatch book for MTO. Maybe C&J is trying to dedicate more of that color to RL offerings?


I've seen dark brown and (i think) burgundy shell cordovan for RL, but I can't ever recall seeing Whiskey or Ravello. I don't have a print version of the 2007 C&J catalogue, but the online scans at only shows the shoe in dark brown shell cordovan. Of course, I seem to recall that there is more than one version of the C&J catalogue.


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## bigbris1 (Jan 24, 2007)

jml90 said:


> Haha do you want it?


Nah, you got it brother.


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