# Allen Edmonds' poor build and repair quality



## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

I bought a pair of Park Avenue's a few months back. After wearing then a few times, I noticed that one of the heel's didn't have the corner knocked off like the other one did. I exchanged if for a new pair, no problem. 

After I'd worn the new pair a couple of times, I notice that the heel was separating from the shoe along the sides. This was happening on both shoes. I sent the shoes back, and they re-heeled them for free. The shoes came back yesterday, and they looked pretty good. I wore them today, and while I was walking around my kitchen I noticed that they were squeaking a bit when I put my heel down. Sure enough, the heel is coming off again. 

Am I being too demanding when I ask that a $325 pair of shoes don't fall apart after being worn just a handful of times? I feel like if this had been a fluke and had happened to one shoe it would be excusable--everyone makes mistakes and has off days, but this has happened to both shoes twice. Ugh. This is certainly my last pair of AE.

Brett


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Brett said:


> I bought a pair of Park Avenue's a few months back. After wearing then a few times, I noticed that one of the heel's didn't have the corner knocked off like the other one did. I exchanged if for a new pair, no problem.
> 
> After I'd worn the new pair a couple of times, I notice that the heel was separating from the shoe along the sides. This was happening on both shoes. I sent the shoes back, and they re-heeled them for free. The shoes came back yesterday, and they looked pretty good. I wore them today, and while I was walking around my kitchen I noticed that they were squeaking a bit when I put my heel down. Sure enough, the heel is coming off again.
> 
> ...


No, you're not being too demanding. Such incidents are rare but reported. AE CEO posts here, you can address your concerns directly to him.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

camorristi said:


> AE CEO posts here, you can address your concerns directly to him.


Good to know. Thanks!

Brett


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

This has got me thinking: how can I get Graangard to replace my old Waldens.....?


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## greekgeek (Mar 19, 2009)

Sounds like you should have kept the first pair.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Does seem rare. I've had several pairs and been nothing but satisfied. The PA is such a popular show that I can't imagine there being a systemic issue like this and it not being discussed here. I'm sure they'll make it right.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

Trip English said:


> Does seem rare. I've had several pairs and been nothing but satisfied. The PA is such a popular show that I can't imagine there being a systemic issue like this and it not being discussed here. I'm sure they'll make it right.


They have already had a chance to make it right. They just fixed this very problem, and it occurred again after just a few hours of wearing the shoes. Should I send them back again? Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing and expecting different results?

Here are some photos to illustrate the problem. You can see that a piece of paper fits between the heel and the base of the shoe.

In the last one (now I'm just being picky), you can see that the edge of the heel looks like it wasn't shaped very cleanly. As if the tool used wasn't sharp enough, or improper technique was used.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

I'd send them back and give them another chance. Communicate your dissatisfaction with them. It is not unheard of for a manufacturer to drop the ball, but I think that AE will work to resolve the problem. That said, I wouldn't burn bridges out of frustration. I've had much better luck being polite and insistent rather than by being an irate customer.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Brett said:


> Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same thing and expecting different results?


No. Repeating the same thing and expecting different results is what our parents teach us as children: "If at first you don't succeed, try and try again."

Or are our parents teaching us to be insane...


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> I'd send them back and give them another chance. Communicate your dissatisfaction with them. It is not unheard of for a manufacturer to drop the ball, but I think that AE will work to resolve the problem. That said, I wouldn't burn bridges out of frustration. I've had much better luck being polite and insistent rather than by being an irate customer.





JJR512 said:


> No. Repeating the same thing and expecting different results is what our parents teach us as children: "If at first you don't succeed, try and try again."
> 
> Or are our parents teaching us to be insane...


So you're both suggesting that exchanging a $300 pair of shoes 3 times to get a pair that isn't defective is perfectly acceptable and that I'm making much ado about nothing?

Perhaps I am. That's why I posted here: to get a reality check. I'm still not sure that I agree with you though.

Brett


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

This has not been my experience with AE shoes.

Where did you buy these from?


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Brett said:


> So you're both suggesting that exchanging a $300 pair of shoes 3 times to get a pair that isn't defective is perfectly acceptable and that I'm making much ado about nothing?
> 
> Perhaps I am. That's why I posted here: to get a reality check. I'm still not sure that I agree with you though.
> 
> Brett


I didn't say or mean anything more or other than what I actually wrote, funnily enough. And I don't see where I wrote anything about exchanging shoes. I just questioned your definition. See, you can tell that's what my post was in reference to because that's the only part of your post that I quoted.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

JJR512 said:


> I didn't say or mean anything more or other than what I actually wrote, funnily enough. And I don't see where I wrote anything about exchanging shoes. I just questioned your definition. See, you can tell that's what my post was in reference to because that's the only part of your post that I quoted.


Relax. No one is attacking you.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Trip English said:


> Relax. No one is attacking you.


It's hard to relax without the partial-nude advertisements...:icon_smile_wink:


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Brett,

I'd go with your gut. If you're sour, you're sour and you have every right to be. There's no question that you got two duds in a row and at any price-point that's two too many. However, I think that Allen Edmonds has proven itself to be a company that makes a great product and the CEO has literally stepped into previous discussions to get the situation resolved. He's created a lot of good will on these boards and that leads some, like me, to urge a little more leeway than we'd grant to other companies.

If it were me, I would absolutely work with them to resolve it. It's very important for me to buy high quality and American-made goods and that, combined with Paul's involvement here, is enough to put the extra effort into getting the perfect pair of shoes.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

JJR512 said:


> It's hard to relax without the partial-nude advertisements...:icon_smile_wink:


You have a point. I can forward you some links.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Trip English said:


> You have a point. I can forward you some links.


Unless the links are going to put non-pornographic photos of beautiful (not slutty) women on the right side of this page, don't bother.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Brett, you can be outraged if you want, but that's not fixing your shoes. Based on the numerous customer-oriented experiences that many here have had at AE, I doubt very much that, in the end, they will fail to resolve things to your satisfaction. Of course any manufacturing defect is disappointing, but they do happen. It's rotten luck that you've drawn the short straw twice in a row (or perhaps something undiagnosed/undiscussed is going on), but I wouldn't quit at one attempt at remediation. 

FWIW, I have 4 pairs of AE's, and none have any quality problems to speak of. Are they the same thing as a pair of Cleverly's? No, but they have been good value for the money for me. Here's hoping they can resolve your issue.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Brett, by all means, don't throw out the towel just yet. 

AE usally has a great product and offers tremendous customer service. With close to 15 pairs of AE, I can attest to the fact they make a great product. Customer service is also usually top notch.


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

I have been treated like ROYALTY each and every time I have bought AE shoes and I have NEVER experienced any QC problems. None. 

Please give this great American company a chance to fix things for you. Things happen.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

So you've heard our advice, now go do something about it. If you don't want to send them back for another repair, wear them as they are. If you want an entirely new pair, call AE and raise hell until you get what you want. Trying to convince us to change our minds isn't helping you get your shoes fixed/repaired.

If you're wanting to raise a battle cry of anti AE rhetoric you've come to the wrong place. We wear and love them. I've sold them for years with few if any complaints from customers. Sounds like you've got a problem with your shoes. Contacting AE is a far better avenue than complaining here.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

Thanks for the encouragement, all. I will work with them to try to get this fixed, but if the other pair of Fifth Aves I ordered before this all happened shows up with problems, then I will be done.



harvey_birdman said:


> Where did you buy these from?


From the AE store in Cincinnati, which has since closed its doors.



Trip English said:


> If it were me, I would absolutely work with them to resolve it. It's very important for me to buy high quality and American-made goods and that, combined with Paul's involvement here, is enough to put the extra effort into getting the perfect pair of shoes.


It's important to me too. I really want to like these guys. Historically I've had trouble finding shoes, and I tried on a whole lot of shoes at a whole lot of stores before I found and liked these. I was pretty excited to find a brand with a good reputation that looked good, was comfortable, and was made in the USA on top of all that.



Barrister & Solicitor said:


> Brett, by all means, don't throw out the towel just yet.
> 
> AE usally has a great product and offers tremendous customer service. With close to 15 pairs of AE, I can attest to the fact they make a great product. Customer service is also usually top notch.


So far my exchanges with customer service haven't been very impressive. Perhaps I should pick up the phone in stead of emailing them.



Mr. Mac said:


> If you're wanting to raise a battle cry of anti AE rhetoric you've come to the wrong place.


Not my intent at all.

Brett


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

Brett said:


> So far my exchanges with customer service haven't been very impressive. Perhaps I should pick up the phone in stead of emailing them.
> Brett


I believe this may be exactly the correct approach. As I'm sure we've all experienced, email correspondence simply does not always have the ability to communicate information accurately and certainly removes any "personal" interaction.

It's my feeling that once you actually *speak *with a customer service rep, your problem(s) will be solved or at the very least the rep will make all reasonable attempts to solve your issue(s).


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

DocD said:


> I believe this may be exactly the correct approach. As I'm sure we've all experienced, email correspondence simply does not always have the ability to communicate information accurately and certainly removes any "personal" interaction.
> 
> It's my feeling that once you actually *speak *with a customer service rep, your problem(s) will be solved or at the very least the rep will make all reasonable attempts to solve your issue(s).


The good doctor is right. It's funny, every single time that someone posts on this forum about bad experiences with AE Customer Service, it's ALWAYS after a chain of several emails back and forth with them. Paul, if you are reading this, perhaps the email route for customer service is an opportunity for improvement?

Personally, I've always just called them up. Their CS reps are readily available, knowledgable, and always put the customer first. If you call and happen to get Brenda on the line, it's the equivalent of winning the customer service lottery - she is the Best!!!


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Why do people continue to avoid the phone? Sending a chain of e-mails and conducting a Q&A thread on a forum seems like a time consuming way to avoid a 3 minute phone call.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

Trip English said:


> Why do people continue to avoid the phone? Sending a chain of e-mails and conducting a Q&A thread on a forum seems like a time consuming way to avoid a 3 minute phone call.


Outside of the obvious sociopathic desire to avoid direct interaction with fellow human beings, there's the benefit of a written chain of communication. Emails are admissible in court. Unrecorded phone calls are hearsay


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Racer said:


> Outside of the obvious sociopathic desire to avoid direct interaction with fellow human beings, there's the benefit of a written chain of communication. Emails are admissible in court. Unrecorded phone calls are hearsay


However, telephone conversations may be confirmed in writing!


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## Thurnau (Apr 14, 2010)

I bought and sent back a couple of pairs of strands so far. None quite fit well, but I agree that there is a lot of room for improvement for AE. After I ordered my first pair AE took about one week (or longer) to even send the shoes. I checked the box and filled out the form to exchange for another size and yet nothing showed up. Since then I bought and returned another size from from zappos since I was disgusted with the slow service ordering direct. 

I have high hopes for AE, being US made, high quality, and offer widths. So far I am not impressed.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Just to point out - there's an AE company-owned store in Jeffersonville, not all that far up 71 from Cincy, and right off the highway. Shouldn't be more than 45-50 minutes from Mason, if I remember right. I know, it's a trip, but you can do the outlet mall thing if you want too - there's a J Crew store and Polo Ralph Lauren too, as well as a Brooks Brothers 346 that tends to have a little bit of mainline stuff available at decent prices.

And yes, if you don't want to visit the store, give them a call - I have every confidence that they'll get it taken care of. AE is not in the business of slipshod customer service, that much is for sure!


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## Master-Classter (Jan 22, 2009)

I've got a few pairs and never had any issues... I don't know, sounds like you just got a few lemons in there. Considering they send out thousands of pairs, I wouldn't make the jump to say the whole company has poor quality...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Thurnau said:


> I bought and sent back a couple of pairs of strands so far. None quite fit well, but I agree that there is a lot of room for improvement for AE. After I ordered my first pair AE took about one week (or longer) to even send the shoes. I checked the box and filled out the form to exchange for another size and yet nothing showed up. Since then I bought and returned another size from from zappos since I was disgusted with the slow service ordering direct.
> 
> I have high hopes for AE, being US made, high quality, and offer widths. So far I am not impressed.


LOL. Well Jeez Louise, you live in the "swamp capital" of this great Nation of ours. Do you suppose that the UPS guy and your new AE's might have inadvertently become '**********' on the way out to your house? 

Note: There is no actual offense intended in offering the above...just humor! This, coming from one Cajun lovin Hoosier!


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Racer said:


> Outside of the obvious sociopathic desire to avoid direct interaction with fellow human beings, there's the benefit of a written chain of communication. Emails are admissible in court. Unrecorded phone calls are hearsay


Not exactly. "Hearsay" does not mean what non-lawyers think it means; it's a complicated set of rules. Plenty of testimony about telephone conversations is admissible, and a big chunk of that is non-hearsay. Cases get decided all the time on the basis of what was said in a non-recorded conversation (telephonic or otherwise). Emails are harder to dispute, though, and that's both a reason to use them and avoid them.

But surely the OP isn't contemplating litigation against AE on the basis of a gap between the sole and the heel...


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## AllenEdmondsCEO (Mar 17, 2009)

Hello Brett - Please send your shoes back to my attention directly (we'll pay for the shipping, of course). We use any such instance (and they are indeed infrequent, even more infrequent since we boosted our quality control methods over a year ago) for education and remediation within our team. We take this all very seriously and we'll make sure your next pair of Park Avenues will be right. We've sold thousands of Park Avenues this year and it's a shoe that rarely comes back. How you received two pairs in a row with this problem will be examined internally here.

In all seriousness, thanks for holding us to a high standard. It's key to who we are and what we want to do.

Best regards,
Paul


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## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

AllenEdmondsCEO said:


> Hello Brett - Please send your shoes back to my attention directly (we'll pay for the shipping, of course). We use any such instance (and they are indeed infrequent, even more infrequent since we boosted our quality control methods over a year ago) for education and remediation within our team. We take this all very seriously and we'll make sure your next pair of Park Avenues will be right. We've sold thousands of Park Avenues this year and it's a shoe that rarely comes back. How you received two pairs in a row with this problem will be examined internally here.
> 
> In all seriousness, thanks for holding us to a high standard. It's key to who we are and what we want to do.
> 
> ...


Hello Paul,
I'd like to start off by saying that I'm a great admirer of Allen Edmonds and wear a pair just about every day. I know that in any manufacturering process, there is a margin of error and I have no doubt that your company does everything in its power to make sure that margin is as narrow as possible.
However, I've noticed a bit of a trend in regards to heel separations. I myself have a pair where this is happening, although to such a small extent that I would rather keep wearing the shoes that do without them over the time it would take to fix. Is this a known issue or something that happened due to batch of product? It just seems to be that since the one issue keeps popping up that it might not be a coincedence.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

I just counted six pairs of AE's in my closet. All are excellent quality with no issues. Every contact I have had with AE, both by email and with personnel in their Denver Cherry Creek store has been pleasant, professional and businesslike. Bad things happen everywhere, but the willingness of the CEO to stand behind his products reflects the fine opinion I have formed of the company.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I too want to see A-E do well, but have to admit I was taken aback by the gross QC problems w/ a pair of McNeils that I recently bought from LE Canvas and sent back immediately as wholely unacceptable.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...30-Off-Regularly-Priced&p=1158820#post1158820

I've received a full refund so no harm done, but was disappointed to get an obviously problematic pair of shoes from such a well-reputed brand as A-E. If they are having problems at the factory I sincerely hope they are able to get to the bottom of them and fix them pronto.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

TheWGP said:


> Just to point out - there's an AE company-owned store in Jeffersonville


There is, but it's an outlet store, so they only sell seconds.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

Talked with the AE customer service representative, and she took care of everything. They have one pair in my size (9C) in stock in the warehouse. They're going to pull that, have it inspected just to be double sure it's a-ok, and send them out here. Also got a call from Paul Grangaard while I was out to lunch. I feel confident that they're going to do what it takes to get me a good pair of shoes. This makes me happy 

Brett


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

Brett said:


> Talked with the AE customer service representative, and she took care of everything. They have one pair in my size (9C) in stock in the warehouse. They're going to pull that, have it inspected just to be double sure it's a-ok, and send them out here. Also got a call from Paul Grangaard while I was out to lunch. I feel confident that they're going to do what it takes to get me a good pair of shoes. This makes me happy
> 
> Brett


It's been said here before but I'll say it again:
AE is a company that goes above and beyond to make sure it's customers are satisfied. 
Seriously, how many times have any of you received a call from Alden's CEO, or Crockett & Jones CEO, or John Lobb's CEO?
I have three pairs of AEs (I only discovered the brand about three years ago) but plan on being a lifelong customer as long as they keep up the great service and keep manufacturing in the U.S.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

triklops55 said:


> It's been said here before but I'll say it again:
> AE is a company that goes above and beyond to make sure it's customers are satisfied.
> Seriously, how many times have any of you received a call from Alden's CEO, or Crockett & Jones CEO, or John Lobb's CEO?
> I have three pairs of AEs (I only discovered the brand about three years ago) but plan on being a lifelong customer as long as they keep up the great service and keep manufacturing in the U.S.


I recently received a personal email from Alden's CEO. Unfortunately he didn't tell me what I wanted to hear. I am quoting him here:

"Clearly, we*fell short of*our goal*to provide you with a product that gives you*a great wearing experience and full satisfaction. On behalf of all here at Alden I apologize for causing that disappointment.
*
Sincerely,
*
Arthur Tarlow"

AE is tops in my book!


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

AllenEdmondsCEO said:


> Hello Brett - Please send your shoes back to my attention directly (we'll pay for the shipping, of course). We use any such instance (and they are indeed infrequent, even more infrequent since we boosted our quality control methods over a year ago) for education and remediation within our team. We take this all very seriously and we'll make sure your next pair of Park Avenues will be right. We've sold thousands of Park Avenues this year and it's a shoe that rarely comes back. How you received two pairs in a row with this problem will be examined internally here.
> 
> In all seriousness, thanks for holding us to a high standard. It's key to who we are and what we want to do.
> 
> ...


Having been eyeing Park Aves for a few months as my 2nd pair of black shoes for rotation, and looking for some silly deal to make it ok, this is enough to push me over the edge to spend the $325. I'll be at Nordstrom's tonight.

Paul, being in customer relations myself (auto industry), it is things exactly like this that separate the good companies from the GREAT companies. You've just earned one here. Kudos!


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

YoungClayB said:


> I recently received a personal email from Alden's CEO. Unfortunately he didn't tell me what I wanted to hear. I am quoting him here:
> 
> "Clearly, we*fell short of*our goal*to provide you with a product that gives you*a great wearing experience and full satisfaction. On behalf of all here at Alden I apologize for causing that disappointment.
> *
> ...


The Alden CEO's response sounds like a canned message. Some intern is probably in charge of sending those.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

triklops55 said:


> The Alden CEO's response sounds like a canned message. Some intern is probably in charge of sending those.


Unfortunately it wasn't canned. He was basically apologizing for disappointing me but really never offered up anything to satisfy me. For the full context and the full letter (both to him and from him) see this thread: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?108188-What-s-Wrong-with-my-Alden-PTB


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

triklops55 said:


> The Alden CEO's response sounds like a canned message. Some intern is probably in charge of sending those.


That's insane!
First, if you were a CEO would you have "some intern" handling customer service complaints?
Second, if you were a CEO would you allow anybody to use your name for important issues regarding cs? Or--maybe anything else?
If you answered yes to either question then the handling of this matter would be even worse than already demonstrated by Alden.
That brings up another matter. When there is an issue with Allen Edmonds there are still some that are ready to "lock and load". Yet, in this case it's with Alden, some are willing to make excuses for them.
I don't get it.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

YoungClayB said:


> Unfortunately it wasn't canned. He was basically apologizing for disappointing me but really never offered up anything to satisfy me. For the full context and the full letter (both to him and from him) see this thread: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?108188-What-s-Wrong-with-my-Alden-PTB


That's pretty crummy. I was at a local shop where they don't stock AE or Alden, but they can order them both. I mentioned that perhaps I would like to purchase some Aldens, to which the store owner replied that they're a pain to deal with. He said something to the effect of: "In fact, I have to go pull the catalog out of the dumpster, because Tim tossed it out there in a fit of rage after getting off the phone with them."


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Brett said:


> There is, but it's an outlet store, so they only sell seconds.


Ah - I wasn't aware they only sold seconds - I'm fine with AE seconds so it's all I've purchased from AE! They still take returns on the seconds, so I figure it's a can't lose proposition. I'm glad to hear you got things straightened out, particularly with the personal attention of the CEO. Above and beyond... above and beyond.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

triklops55 said:


> It's been said here before but I'll say it again:
> AE is a company that goes above and beyond to make sure it's customers are satisfied.
> Seriously, how many times have any of you received a call from Alden's CEO, or Crockett & Jones CEO, or John Lobb's CEO?
> I have three pairs of AEs (I only discovered the brand about three years ago) but plan on being a lifelong customer as long as they keep up the great service and keep manufacturing in the U.S.


I'd rather have shoes that are made right the first time, as all of my Aldens have been, than have to deal with all the mishagas of returning shoes repeatedly, etc. etc. etc. A properly made shoe trumps a call from the CEO...kinda tough to wear a phone call on your feet.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

smmrfld said:


> I'd rather have shoes that are made right the first time, as all of my Aldens have been, than have to deal with all the mishagas of returning shoes repeatedly, etc. etc. etc. A properly made shoe trumps a call from the CEO...kinda tough to wear a phone call on your feet.


Well, as we found out on this thread, even the best shoe makers (Alden and AE included) produce duds now and then. Given similar quality and price point, good customer service is the deciding factor for many of us.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

triklops55 said:


> Well, as we found out on this thread, even the best shoe makers (Alden and AE included) produce duds now and then. Given similar quality and price point, good customer service is the deciding factor for many of us.


I see. So I infer that you believe the OP's experience of receiving a second pair with the same defect to be good customer service? I'll stick with Aldens.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

smmrfld said:


> I see. So I infer that you believe the OP's experience of receiving a second pair with the same defect to be good customer service? I'll stick with Aldens.


Apparently you've not done your homework. I said that getting a call and a message from the CEO promising to do something to keep the customer happy is good customer service.
I'm glad that your Aldens have all been problem free, as they should be; they're generally great shoes afterall.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

smmrfld said:


> I see. So I infer that you believe the OP's experience of receiving a second pair with the same defect to be good customer service? I'll stick with Aldens.


This is precisely why I have chosen not to purchase healthcare insurance for my family. We have superior genetics and I've never been sick...you see, our parents (or god if you prefer) made us right "the first time".

(only in this weird analogy, it's actually cheaper *to* have the health insurance)...I just really like the "glow" that not having coverage provides me, and that unqualitative feeling just makes me feel heads and tails better than all those rubes with the peace of mind offered by dumb old health insurance.

<end of analogy>



triklops55 said:


> Well, as we found out on this thread, even the best shoe makers (Alden and AE included) produce duds now and then. Given similar quality and price point, good customer service is the deciding factor for many of us.


Well said. I've purchased 5 pairs of AE shoes and have never had a problem - even with seconds and used shoes from eBay, but I have read this thread and other similar threads where folks have had problems with AE shoes so I know that they aren't immune. I've also purchased only one pair of Alden's and they had a serious problem. You are spot on in saying that the CS that is offered by AE (not just when then is a problem but for sales as well) is the swing vote when deciding who gets my business...for now anyways; I long for the day that I am so wealthy that I can dismiss my own personal experiences with Alden and just plop down the cash for a replacement pair without even having to involve their customer service department.

Oh and for the record and to clear up any questions you may have: yes, I am bitter. LOL


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Use the money on a solid brand like Tricker's. You won't be disappointed.


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## MicTester (Oct 8, 2009)

I currently own 17 pairs of AE and I can tell you that my dissatisfaction was at an all time high about 12-18 months ago. Even made me buy my first pair of non-AE shoes in many years and I offloaded a couple of AE on ebay. 

The 2010 collection appears to look and sound like things are changing for the better. Almost placed an order for a new pair last month, but waiting to see and hold them before placing an order. Never had to do that in the past.

Love that company no doubt and will support it; but unlike in the past, have to do my homework before placing orders.


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## BespokeMex (Nov 13, 2010)

I've owned just about every brand of shoes out there in the $300-$500/pair range (foreign and domestic), even brands touted as the best and most comfortable or luxurious shoe in the world.... until I discovered AE a few years back. Since then, I've bought and worn nothing but AEs and have sent a few pairs back for recrafting, and got them back like new again. So far no duds yet (knock on wood). The only other chance I'll take with shoes again is to commission my first pair of bespoke shoes.


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## WJRJR (May 1, 2010)

Hanzo said:


> Hello Paul,
> I'd like to start off by saying that I'm a great admirer of Allen Edmonds and wear a pair just about every day. I know that in any manufacturering process, there is a margin of error and I have no doubt that your company does everything in its power to make sure that margin is as narrow as possible.
> However, I've noticed a bit of a trend in regards to heel separations. I myself have a pair where this is happening, although to such a small extent that I would rather keep wearing the shoes that do without them over the time it would take to fix. Is this a known issue or something that happened due to batch of product? It just seems to be that since the one issue keeps popping up that it might not be a coincedence.


I have noticed this as well. Even on a pair of mcallisters that I had redrafted. Did you hear anything further on this? I have experienced this problem win three new or recrafted pairs of AEs recently.

WJR


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

I got a kick out of the Alden CEO's response. Alden is a unique company. They aren't a large operation and have no desire to be one. For better or worse they do things their way and really don't care much about public opinion.

Alden reminds me of a specialty store I shop at. Their prices and selection are the best in the state and they stock stuff you just can't find anywhere else, but their customer service is terrible. They know it, and they don't care. In the words of the owner, "I'll start giving a s*** [about customer service] as soon as the free market tells me to."

Not my ideal way of doing business, but he does have a point...


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Mr. Mac said:


> I got a kick out of the Alden CEO's response. Alden is a unique company. They aren't a large operation and have no desire to be one. For better or worse they do things their way and really don't care much about public opinion.
> 
> Alden reminds me of a specialty store I shop at. Their prices and selection are the best in the state and they stock stuff you just can't find anywhere else, but their customer service is terrible. They know it, and they don't care. In the words of the owner, "I'll start giving a s*** [about customer service] as soon as the free market tells me to."
> 
> Not my ideal way of doing business, but he does have a point...


Hahaha! "no shoes for YOU!!!" Alden really is the soup Nazi of the shoe world. If my 990s had worked out and this fiasco had happened to someone else, I think it would have made me like the 990s even more.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

I got my new Park Aves the other day. I wore them twice. The heel is coming off again. These were made just for me, and they were specially inspected by quality before leaving because of the problems with the last pair. 

I recently ordered some Fifth Aves. I wore them for half a day at work. Their heels are also starting to separate. If anyone has recently purchased a pair of AE shoes, I advise you to check the heels, and ensure that there is no separation.

Brett


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

Brett said:


> I advise you to check the heels, and ensure that there is no separation.
> 
> Brett


Can you show us a picture of this separation? I'm not sure that the heels on leather soled shoes are glued down absolutely tight as a rule...


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

Dragoon said:


> Can you show us a picture of this separation? I'm not sure that the heels on leather soled shoes are glued down absolutely tight as a rule...


Yes. See the first page of this thread. There are a few photos there.

Brett


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

Brett said:


> I got my new Park Aves the other day. I wore them twice. The heel is coming off again. These were made just for me, and they were specially inspected by quality before leaving because of the problems with the last pair.
> 
> I recently ordered some Fifth Aves. I wore them for half a day at work. Their heels are also starting to separate. If anyone has recently purchased a pair of AE shoes, I advise you to check the heels, and ensure that there is no separation.
> 
> Brett


Dang, where are you wearing them? I have bought three pairs this year and found them all perfectly flawless. Another pair from the Rack had a problem but AE made it right with a new pair.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

dks202 said:


> Dang, where are you wearing them? I have bought three pairs this year and found them all perfectly flawless. Another pair from the Rack had a problem but AE made it right with a new pair.


Indoors. I'm a software engineer, so I do a lot of sitting too. I weigh about 175 lbs. I don't know what I could be doing to make this happen.

Brett


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## BespokeMex (Nov 13, 2010)

Brett said:


> I got my new Park Aves the other day. I wore them twice. The heel is coming off again. These were made just for me, and they were specially inspected by quality before leaving because of the problems with the last pair.
> 
> I recently ordered some Fifth Aves. I wore them for half a day at work. Their heels are also starting to separate. If anyone has recently purchased a pair of AE shoes, I advise you to check the heels, and ensure that there is no separation.
> 
> Brett


Call them back. You sure are having bad luck with those shoes. I've been wearing nothing but AEs for the last few years, except for my tennis shoes, and haven't had a single issue with them. In fact, I'm waiting for the after christmas sale to pick up a few more pairs.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

BespokeMex said:


> Call them back. You sure are having bad luck with those shoes. I've been wearing nothing but AEs for the last few years, except for my tennis shoes, and haven't had a single issue with them. In fact, I'm waiting for the after christmas sale to pick up a few more pairs.


I called them earlier today. Spoke with who I believe is the customer service manager. After I told her, she was pretty annoyed (at their QA folks, not me). She said she was going to go and speak with the QA manager and find out what the heck is going on. She said that after my first problem they did indeed find something wrong, but the QA manager was pretty confident that the problem was solved before they made my latest pair of shoes. Apparently something is still wrong. Modern adhesives are pretty amazing. I would expect the leather or the rubber to give way before the adhesive joint if the adhesive was applied and cured correctly. She also said she'd call me back within the hour, which didn't happen. I can forgive that though, it was later in the day, and sometimes you have to deal with the person standing in front of you first, so I know how that is.

Brett


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## hohne1 (May 12, 2010)

I have 25 pair of Allen Edmonds shoes and some are 20 years old. I have never had a heel come loose (or any other problems). I don't know what you are doing to cause the heels to separate, but I find that really strange. I have worn my AE's in rain, snow, heat, cold, etc. I have walked many miles in downtown environments. Never a problem.

Chris


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Just wondering, but does the separation actually affect the performance of the shoe? Or is it strictly cosmetic?


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

Leighton said:


> Just wondering, but does the separation actually affect the performance of the shoe? Or is it strictly cosmetic?


So far it's strictly cosmetic. If just four hours of wear is enough to separate the heel from the shoe, what are they going to look like in 3 years? Even if if this was a purely cosmetic problem and didn't ever effect the performance of the shoe, it would still be unacceptable in my mind. If I were OK with cosmetic seconds, I would shop at their outlet store, but I'm not OK with that, so I pay full price for their products.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

hohne1 said:


> I have 25 pair of Allen Edmonds shoes and some are 20 years old. I have never had a heel come loose (or any other problems). I don't know what you are doing to cause the heels to separate, but I find that really strange. I have worn my AE's in rain, snow, heat, cold, etc. I have walked many miles in downtown environments. Never a problem.


I'm pretty sure I'm not doing anything. If me wearing a shoe for just a few hours causes it to start to come apart, there is something wrong with the shoe. The first time, as I previously stated, AE said that they found an actual problem with their assembly setup. I can't imagine my shoes were the only ones constructed while this process problem was in place.

Brett


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

MicTester said:


> I currently own 17 pairs of AE and I can tell you that my dissatisfaction was at an all time high about 12-18 months ago. Even made me buy my first pair of non-AE shoes in many years and I offloaded a couple of AE on ebay.
> 
> The 2010 collection appears to look and sound like things are changing for the better. Almost placed an order for a new pair last month, but waiting to see and hold them before placing an order. Never had to do that in the past.
> 
> Love that company no doubt and will support it; but unlike in the past, have to do my homework before placing orders.


I hope your first pair of non Allen Edmonds (or AE for short) shoes was not a pair of Alden shoes, MicTester. Alden's problems have been substantially worse than AE's problems have been (and for twice the price of AE, LOL, what a frigging joke! ARGH!!!!!). Right now, Alden is $50 to $100 more than Crockett & Jones (or C&J for short), which is far better than Alden in every conceivable way (despite the increasingly unfavorable exchange rate between the Great British Pound and United States Dollar).


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Looking at the pics you (Brett) offered, early in this thread, I doubt you have to worry about the shoe continuing to deteriorate with continued wear. It appears that the gap to which your refer is the result of variations in the landscapping contours (not sure this the the proper term to describe the condition but, it is tne best I can do this early in the AM! ) of the sole material and the base of the heel. The resulting gap was probably covered up during the final finishing process of those shoes. Wearing the shoes for the first time simply broke away the finishing material and exposed the pre-existing variations between the two surfaces. 

I doubt that further wear of the shoes will result in any exacerbation of the problem to which you refer. Over the years, I have purchased a sufficient number of AE's to qualify for two free pair, and am within two more purchases of qualifying for a third free pair, through AE's Cobbler Club program. After reading of Brett's woes, I inspected the pairs of AE's presently on my shoe racks and found two pair exhibiting the condition to which Brett refers. Honnestly, I don't know when or under what conditions the referrenced gap developed in my shoes but, I have worn both pair regularly over a period of several years and they have not failed me yet! I am not saying Brett should just sit back and accept the flaw but, I really don't think it as serious as he perceives it to be. :thumbs-up:


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

I spoke with their customer service on Wednesday of last week (5 days ago). At that time they said they would call back within the hour. Today is Monday, and they still haven't called back. I've left several voice-mails and called several more times since Wednesday. This is not outstanding service.


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## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

WJRJR said:


> I have noticed this as well. Even on a pair of mcallisters that I had redrafted. Did you hear anything further on this? I have experienced this problem win three new or recrafted pairs of AEs recently.
> 
> WJR


Sorry, I just now saw this.

To answer your question, no, I never did hear back on this.


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Brett said:


> I called them earlier today. Spoke with who I believe is the customer service manager. After I told her, she was pretty annoyed (at their QA folks, not me). She said she was going to go and speak with the QA manager and find out what the heck is going on. She said that after my first problem they did indeed find something wrong, but the QA manager was pretty confident that the problem was solved before they made my latest pair of shoes. Apparently something is still wrong. Modern adhesives are pretty amazing. I would expect the leather or the rubber to give way before the adhesive joint if the adhesive was applied and cured correctly. She also said she'd call me back within the hour, which didn't happen. I can forgive that though, it was later in the day, and sometimes you have to deal with the person standing in front of you first, so I know how that is.
> 
> Brett


Possibly this post by Nick V, from another thread, bears on the topic:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...02934-B.-Neslon-Recraft&p=1068003#post1068003


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

Interesting post. I wonder in AE uses contact cement, or a weaker adhesive to attach their heels. Perhaps I should pay a visit to my local cobbler and get his thoughts.

Thanks,
Brett


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I don't peruse the fashion forum that often, but I've been seeing the title of this thread for about a month now, and I think it should be allowed to die. Allen Edmods makes very good shoes, everyone knows that. Every time I read the thead title it seems a little more slanderous.


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

While I agree that may have been true at one time, AE has sent me five pairs of shoes with gaps between the heel and the sole. Forgive me for expecting more from a $300 pair of shoes.

Brett


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## WJRJR (May 1, 2010)

Hanzo said:


> Sorry, I just now saw this.
> 
> To answer your question, no, I never did hear back on this.


Thanks.


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## WJRJR (May 1, 2010)

Brett said:


> While I agree that may have been true at one time, AE has sent me five pairs of shoes with gaps between the heel and the sole. Forgive me for expecting more from a $300 pair of shoes.
> 
> Brett


I agree with Brett. I have noticed this problem on several new pairs of AEs recently as well.

WJR


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## hellomarty (May 9, 2009)

sent my walnut grain PA back to the factory. haven't heard anything yet...been almost 2 weeks. I'm sure they fixed it and it's on the way back...


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## Brett (Mar 6, 2010)

From what they now tell me, the problem is purely cosmetic. I've talked to one cobbler so far on the forum, and he said it's a tradeoff chosen by the design of the shoe. This separation allows the heel to bend and flex in a particular way when you walk, allowing the show to act a particular way when you walk. The heels themselves are attached with threaded nails, so they're not going to fall off. I'm also going to head over to a local cobbler and get his opinion to ensure that I've done my due diligence.

It bothers me that they didn't just tell me this in the first place, and instead there was a protracted fixing and replacing processes. At this point I just want to be done.

I'm also not sure how I feel about the crack being allowable. In the first pair that exhibited this, I noticed it while wearing the shoes sitting down. I had my right ankle resting on my left knee, looked down and plainly saw the crack.

Additionally, a small crack like that will suck up water by capillary action. Unlike the rest of the sole, the mating area between the heal and the sole isn't going to dry very quickly. Dirt and other debris will also get in there. Since the heel is meant to move, that dirt and debris will abrade mating surfaces. 

I will wear my newest pair and report back. 

Brett


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Brett said:


> It bothers me that they didn't just tell me this in the first place, and instead there was a protracted fixing and replacing processes. At this point I just want to be done.


I think even at a well-run plant, not everyone has exactly the same picture in their head of how things are supposed to go. I can easily imagine that there would be confusion between Cust Service, the QA people, the assembly workers, and whoever designed the shoe about the intent behind the heel attachment.


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## temple_gym (Oct 10, 2010)

No. I dont think you are demanding. And it doesnt matter whether its $32.50 or $325. When its a product fault, its a product fault. You have every right to ask for a replacement or even refund , I think.

I am actually surfing to Net to get a pair of AE loafers. Hmmm.... I am thinking twice...


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

temple_gym said:


> I am actually surfing to Net to get a pair of AE loafers. Hmmm.... I am thinking twice...


In that case, you better go English, Italian or bespoke as Alden, as of late, has been having (and absolutely continues to have, unfortunately ) a much higher frequency, intensity and quantity of problems (particularly with customer service) than Allen Edmonds (or AE for short) ever has had and continues to have. This is despite the fact that Alden is twice the price of AE (what a depraved joke ).


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## hellomarty (May 9, 2009)

OK, I received a phone call from AE a couple days ago, heel being replaced and will be UPS back to me!

woo hoo!


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

I haven't posted on AAAC in a long time and only came back for a PM. Still, I saw this thread and had to read it.

The gap you speak of appears on most or all my shoes, AE and non-AE alike. You're correct about the nails; they do not use a glue. This includes shoes I've had resoled/reheeled by my local cobbler, who is excellent. I just checked a pair of AE Brewsters that I'm wearing that have the original heels (toplifts replaced), and yes, I can slide a piece of paper under the heel. These shoes were sold back around 1996-1997. The same goes for some old J&M Aristocrafts I have at home. (Not sure about my Florsheim Imperials, as those old ones are nailed to death.)

Wear the shoes and enjoy them instead of inspecting them to death. You'll be a lot happier in the long run and won't be in such need of blood pressure medication.


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