# Bill O'Williams



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/02/bill-oreilly-brian-williams-falklands-war


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

He said:

"I was in a situation one time, in a war zone *in Argentina*, in the Falklands"

EXCUSE ME????? The Falklands is not IN Argentina it is IN the South Atlantic Ocean and it is British not Argentine!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

> So is the Mother Jones piece a cheap shot? "It's not a cheap shot," replies O'Reilly. "It's a lie."
> The thing is, he argues, no U.S. correspondents ever claimed to be on the ground in the Falklands, but they still may legitimately claim to have covered the war - albeit from Buenos Aires and other non-Falklands locales. "We were sent down there to cover the Falklands war. How else am I supposed to label it? And when you have people shooting guns, that's combat. There isn't any distinction to be made because I've never said that I was on the islands or that there was any action in that capacity. All I did was tell people what I did, and 100 percent of that is true. If you want to distort what I've said, as Corn does, then that is irresponsible, and that is a lie."
> In addition to witnessing the unrest in Buenos Aires after the surrender, O'Reilly speaks of covering the hostilities from Montevideo, Uruguay, where the wounded were rushed after the Argentines bombed the HMS Sheffield in May 1982. "It was an extension of the war," says O'Reilly, who is also accused of over-remembering a report from an El Salvador war zone in 1981.
> "If you want to split hairs, split hairs," says O'Reilly, who says he's not contemplating legal action against Mother Jones. "I'm a public figure. Why am I going to do that?"


Nothing better to do??

And what is the point exactly??

You got our guy now we are getting yours??

Another flash, BO is not a news anchorman.

BW is.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

^^

I don't watch television news or Bill O'Reilly. I am only tangentially aware of his existence. Conversely, I am not a subscriber to MJ or even a casual reader of the publication--I doubt that I've read five MJ stories in my life. However, the MJ story seems deeply reported and researched with multiple named sources. I found Mr. O'Reilly's descriptions of his actions hard to believe, particularly the account of a "hostile" pointing an M16 at his head from ten feet away. I also found his reaction suspect. Instead of refuting the allegations, he dismisses the source. That should raise all kinds of flags.

I do not know the truth, but I think that this raises questions that any news organization should try to answer. Whether Mr. O'Reilly is an anchor is irrelevant. He is in a position, as I understand it, of commenting on current events based on facts. If he cannot be trusted to tell the truth about his work, then he cannot be trusted to present facts as facts.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

1. He presents his opinion, not facts as facts. 

2. That's why I liked to the more complete version in the WP.

3. Do really think that BW is the news equivalence of BO??


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> 1. He presents his opinion, not facts as facts.
> 
> 2. That's why I liked to the more complete version in the WP.


I appreciated the link. It was helpful. But it did not answer all of my questions.

While I appreciate that commentators offer opinions as opinions, I don't much value opinions from commentators who can't be trusted to tell the truth when it comes to facts. Echoes of "you're entitled to your opinion but not your facts," perhaps. A case in point is Rush Limbaugh. In the mid 1990s, I had to listen to him on a somewhat regular basis as part of the job I had at the time. I found him to be a self-promoter who played fast and loose with the truth to the point that his opinions, in my opinion, were worthless. A case in point was the morning of the Oklahoma City bombing. In the immediate aftermath, Limbaugh turned into a journalist and told listeners that he had highly placed sources who told him that the bombing was the work of Middle Eastern terrorists. He covered himself with enough "it's unconfirmed," but still. No responsible person should go on the air less than an hour after the explosion and say stuff like that unless they have it nailed.

Although Mr. O'Reilly is, as I understand it, conservative and Mr. Limbaugh surely is, this is not a matter of political persuasion. Liberal or conservative has nothing to do with it, and I guess you'll just have to trust me on that. I do not know Mr. Williams' political persuasions, but that guy should have been fired and pronto. He should have found out when he went to the office the morning after the you-know-what hit the fan and discovered that his key to the door didn't work anymore.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> He said:
> 
> "I was in a situation one time, in a war zone *in Argentina*, in the Falklands"
> 
> EXCUSE ME????? The Falklands is not IN Argentina it is IN the South Atlantic Ocean and it is British not Argentine!


Turns out he was in Argentina at the time of the Falklands War and a violent riot broke out where he was.

Kinda like when the Top Gear Boys got run out of town there!!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Turns out he was in Argentina at the time of the Falklands War and a violent riot broke out where he was.
> 
> Kinda like when the Top Gear Boys got run out of town there!!


The plot is thickening:

I'm not sure I like Mr. O'Reilly's chances here. The key, I think, could be the camera man. If someone saved my life the way that O'Reilly claims to have saved this camera man, I would have jumped as fast as I could to help O'Reilly refute the accusations. If it had really happened and I was O'Reilly, I would have said "Check with (camera man's name)--he'll back me on this." Neither has happened.

If the camera man is located and says it never happened, then Fox should terminate O'Reilly. As I understand it, O'Reilly has gotten on a high horse and criticized Williams (again, this is my understanding, I haven't heard it directly since I don't watch television news or commentary) for lying. You can't do that and keep your job if it turns out that you did the same thing.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

The man appears to make a habit of lying. Even in my own, very limited experience of seeing him on Youtube, he seems to habitually rearrange the truth to suit his views. Is such dishonesty and hypocrisy thought acceptable on US television? How do people who have worn uniform and *really* been in danger view this man?


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Chouan said:


> The man appears to make a habit of lying. Even in my own, very limited experience of seeing him on Youtube, he seems to habitually rearrange the truth to suit his views. Is such dishonesty and hypocrisy thought acceptable on US television? How do people who have worn uniform and *really* been in danger view this man?


The truth, all too often, is superfluous in the United States, both in the media and in politics. It is considered a terrible thing to lie about one's military service, yet political operatives often lie about the military service of others and get away with it. John Kerry is just one example. I really don't much care about the details. What I know is, he voluntarily put himself in harm's way, knowingly put his life at risk by going into combat when he could have lived a cushy life at home. He won a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. No one should be able to take that away from him, but here came a bunch of whack-a-doodles, accusing him of being a coward and scoring political points when they should have been summarily dismissed as crackpots. And Dubya, who ducked military service and used connections to avoid Vietnam while Kerry voluntarily risked his life, remained silent--now there's a coward for you. Adding to the ridiculousness was the cooked-up controversy about what Kerry did with his medals--did he give them back, did he throw them away. Who cares? They were his medals to do with as he wished. There's also Max Cleland, who lost both legs in Vietnam and had his patriotism questioned by political enemies while he was in the Senate. Utterly disgraceful.

The truth isn't important in America. From Lance Armstrong to the White House to Little League, winning is the only thing that matters.

As for the media, I've lost count of the cases in which journalists were caught plagiarizing, or otherwise lying, and given second chances. It should be the easiest of calls: If you plagiarize, you get fired, don't pass go, don't collect $200. Inevitably, they plagiarize again and end up getting fired, often in a most public way. While not a case of plagiarism, Patricia Smith is an excellent example of how media organizations tolerate lying. She made stuff up while working at a Chicago newspaper, and it was easy to prove. She'd reviewed an Elton John concert without going to the show and written about him performing songs that he did not perform--there were thousands of eyewitnesses, aka concert goers, to her lies. She was passed off to the Boston Globe, where she became a columnist. An editor became so suspicious that he required her to provide names and phone numbers of everyone whom she wrote about. That editor got promoted but did not tell his successor that Smith could not be trusted to tell the truth, and so she was allowed to operate freely. She ended up getting fired, finally, after getting caught making up quotes and people in dozens of columns. No one at any point said, loudly and clearly, this woman writes stuff that is not true and so should not be allowed to write. Until the lies became so big and prolific that it was impossible to do anything else.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> If the camera man is located and says it never happened, then Fox should terminate O'Reilly. *As I understand it, O'Reilly has gotten on a high horse and criticized Williams (again, this is my understanding, I haven't heard it directly* since I don't watch television news or commentary) for lying. You can't do that and keep your job if it turns out that you did the same thing.


*TALKING POINTS MEMO
2-20-15*
Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly ... thanks for watching us tonight ... more proof the American media is corrupt.
That is the subject of this evening's Talking Points memo.
This man ... 56-year-old David Corn ... who works for the far left magazine ... Mother Jones ... smeared me, your humble correspondent, yesterday ... saying I had fabricated some war reporting.
Mother Jones ... which has low circulation ... considered by many the bottom rung of journalism in America.
however ... in this Internet age ... the defamation they put forth ... gets exposure.
and so I have to deal with this garbage tonight. I'm sorry.
basically David Corn ... a liar ... says that I exaggerated situations in the Falklands War ... and Salvadoran War.
Here's the truth ... everything I've said about my reportorial career ... everything ... is true.
33-years ago in June ... Argentina surrendered to Great Britain ... ending the Falklands War.
I was covering the conflict from Argentina and Uruguay for CBS News.
After learning of the surrender ... angry mobs in Buenos Aires ... stormed the presidential palace ... the Casa Rosada ... trying to overthrow the government of General Leopoldo Galtieri.
I was there on the street ... with my camera crews.
The violence was horrific. ... as Argentine soldiers ... fired into the crowd ... who were responding with violent acts of their own.
My video of the combat ... led the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather that evening.
and later on ... I filed a report ... that ran nationwide.
That's what happened.
I never said I was on the Falkland Islands ... as Corn purports ... I said I covered the Falklands War ... which I did.
Now ... in what I consider to be a miracle ... I found this CBS internal memo from 33 years ago ... praising my coverage that day.
The cable was sent to the CBS bureau chief in Buenos Aires ... by the news desk here in New York City:
"Doyle, O'Reilly didn't have the time last night but would like to say many thanks for the riot piece last night. WCBS-TV and WCAU-TV both took the entire piece, instead of stripping it for pix. They called to say thanks for a fine piece."
"Thanks again. Your piece made the late feed, a winner last night."
Want more? ... here it is:
Shortly after my crew and I ... escaped grave danger on the streets of Buenos Aires ... I wrote to CBS News boss Ed Joyce ... praising the crew's bravery.
I have the letter:
"The crews were great &#8230; the riot had been very bad, we were gassed, shot at, and I had the best vantage point in which to report the story."
So we have rock solid proof ... that David Corn ... smeared me ... and some websites that picked up his defamation ... did as well.
Now ... I had to spend hours last night ... on the phone with various reporters ... and crawling around my basement covered with dust to find documents from 33 years ago. Again, it was a miracle I found them.
all because an irresponsible ... guttersnipe ... a far left zealot ... who has attacked Fox News many times before ... spit this stuff out on the net.
and you know what? ... nothing is gonning to happen to David Corn.
Mother Jones and the far left websites ...couldn't care less about the truth.

They are in business to injure. This is a political hit job.
At this point ... TV coverage has been scant, but CNN tried to exploit the situation because a guy over there named Brian Stelter ... is another far left zealot ... masquerading as a journalist. CNN can do a lot better than this guy.
Real journalists ... knew this story was B-S from the jump.

They knew Corn was trying to take the Brian Williams situation ... and wrap it around my neck ... for ideological reasons ... because he has a history of attacking Fox News.
In addition ... *Corn actually wrote that I hammered Brian Williams ... when everyone knows ... I went out of my way on Kimmel and the Factor ... to be compassionate to the man.*

Corn must think the folks ... are as dumb ... as he is.
The whole scandal ... reminds me of another guy who got completely away with it.
That man is Al Franken ... who years ago ... accused me of faking my working class upbringing.
He actually said in public many times ... I was not raised in Levittown ... he ran around telling that to the media ... who gleefully printed his words.
The despicable Franken ... perhaps the biggest liar I have ever known ... wouldn't even retract it when I produced this:
The deed to my parent's house ... it says Levittown, Al
... but you, a dishonest smear merchant ... wouldn't retract your false story.
And I'm sure Corn won't either.
and what happened to Al Franken?
He was elected a senator from Minnesota.
And that's the memo ...

Retraction??


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Retraction? From me? Why? Because the guy who's accused of lying and hasn't been able to refute the allegation said so? Why should I believe him?

Jury's still out, in my estimation, on whether Mr. O'Reilly can be trusted to tell the truth about anything. My statement was not definitive, and thanks for including my original statement. I think we should let this one play out a bit before deciding anything definitive.



WouldaShoulda said:


> *TALKING POINTS MEMO
> 2-20-15*
> Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly ... thanks for watching us tonight ... more proof the American media is corrupt.
> That is the subject of this evening's Talking Points memo.
> ...


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I myself have covered wars. I wrote about them plenty when I was a college student. Life-and-death situations, blood and gore--I covered it all in several term papers.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Just ran across this, which I think is a good analysis and along the lines of what Wouldashoulda has said: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/...column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

The upshot is, it doesn't matter to O'Reilly's employer or his fans whether he is lying or not because he is paid to be divisive, with truth being irrelevant. Just my opinion, but I think that's sad. It would be nice if people in this country tried to be nicer to each other and understand opposing viewpoints instead of throwing rocks at each other all the time. That might sound naive and stupid, but that's what I think. I don't recall the same level of rancor in public discourse 25 years ago that we see today. Maybe I've just forgotten.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> I myself have covered wars. I wrote about them plenty when I was a college student. Life-and-death situations, blood and gore--I covered it all in several term papers.


And I climbed Mt. Everest twice. In one week. Walking on my hands.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Sometimes at night in my dreams I can fly.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Life can be greatly enriched if, when we awaken from our dreams, we arise, pull on our boots, sally forth and make every effort to live those dreams. I suggest you proceed to your local airport and sign up for your first flying lesson!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> I don't recall the same level of rancor in public discourse 25 years ago that we see today. Maybe I've just forgotten.


Pre-CNN 24hr news and no internets??


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Pre-CNN 24hr news and no internets??


Yes. Perhaps another example of how the digital age has cheapened us all.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> Yes. Perhaps another example of how the digital age has cheapened us all.


By "us all" you are speaking of those in the "news" bidness??


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm more interested in levitating and floating along of my own volition. I'm not sure that anyone can teach me how to do this. It involves a range of "floating." Sometimes I float a few feet above the sidewalk, for which I sometimes bounce like a moon walker or just sort of hover above the pavement like Michael Fox on his hover-board in Back to the Future. Other times I climb high into the air and float above the town at the level of treetops and higher.



eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Life can be greatly enriched if, when we awaken from our dreams, we arise, pull on our boots, sally forth and make every effort to live those dreams. I suggest you proceed to your local airport and sign up for your first flying lesson!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> By "us all" you are speaking of those in the "news" bidness??


No. Everyone who lives in America.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> No. Everyone who lives in America.


Who elected you spokesperson??


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Who elected you spokesperson??


No one. I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> No one. I am entitled to my opinion, just as you are entitled to yours.


Well, "cheapened" sounds less like an opinion and more like a judgement to me!!


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Well, "cheapened" sounds less like an opinion and more like a judgement to me!!


Judgments are opinions, aren't they? I've always thought so, at least.

I'm no fan of O'Reilly, but his embellishment seems to me to fall into a much less extreme category than that of Brian Williams. He was in a nation at war, and felt himself to be at risk from armed insurgents (or so he claims). I think his embellishment would be questionable on a resume, while Williams's would be grounds for dismissal. But that's just one man's judgment/opinion.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

MaxBuck said:


> Judgments are opinions, aren't they? I've always thought so, at least.
> 
> I'm no fan of O'Reilly, but his embellishment seems to me to fall into a much less extreme category than that of Brian Williams. He was in a nation at war, and felt himself to be at risk from armed insurgents (or so he claims). I think his embellishment would be questionable on a resume, while Williams's would be grounds for dismissal. But that's just one man's judgment/opinion.


Might sound simplistic, but to me, a lie is a lie is a lie when you make your living the way these guys do. And if it is true that Mr. O'Reilly never dragged a camera man to safety in the face of angry mob, as he has claimed, I think that's a pretty significant fib and certainly in the same vein as Williams lying about the military incident. The goal--making themselves appear heroic and experienced at having faced danger or even death in the face--is the same.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Geeze, there are guttersnipes everywhere: https://money.cnn.com/2015/03/01/media/bill-oreilly-jfk-recordings/index.html?iid=SF_MED_River


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