# Monograms & the Trad



## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I've only had one shirt monogrammed in my life. It was the first shirt I bought from Brooks Brothers which, so many years ago, was the first major clothing purchase I had really made. Prior to that, school uniforms were as nice as I got and I treated those pretty badly. 

Since then I've never taken the plunge for one reason or another, but have seen a few monogrammed shirts that make me want to try it out, but I know that monograms are a delicate subject. 

Anyone have any thoughts on the subject? How about placement? 2 letters or 3? Thread color? Or just skip it?


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Skip it. Other than my engine turned buckles, no monograms for me. I find them distracting.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

I thought the recent thread on monograms over on the fashion forum was interesting. In my circle nobody would *ever *associate a monogram with an extremely expensive custom shirt and I don't think that they would think somebody with one was "showing off". They would just assume you got it done at Macy's or Dillards. I think most of the usual mail order vendors do it at a very reasonable cost so I don't really get the association with exclusiveness.

So to me, it is not an enormous affectation but still I think of it as a tiny one. My wife encourages me to get my shirts monogrammed but I don't think that I ever will.


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

When I was 13, I received a monogrammed Lands' End duffle bag as a gift, which I still own. Other than that, I have no monograms on anything. And I can't see why I'd want to change that.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

The only monograms that appeal to me (and the ones I'd get if I did), are the tiny block letter initials below the chest pocket of the shirt. 

Otherwise, I actually like putting tiny words where monograms should be. Some may recall my "BROKE" engine turned belt buckle. This may also be an option.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I have a monogrammed bath robe that I really like. I'm also after a good quality engine turned buckle with my initials, something heirloom quality. I've always thought that was cool. Aside from that, I've actually always wanted just 1 shirt with with a monogram on the left elbow, just because it made me laugh when it was proposed in the OPH, something in the same color as the shirt to see if anyone ever a)noticed and b) got the joke. 

Aside from that, I don't see any harm in them, but I'm not dying to throw 'em on my clothes, either.


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## M. Morgan (Dec 19, 2009)

Good topic. I would like to put a maroon monogram in block letters, with my three initials, below the pocket of one white pinpoint shirt, just to see how I like it, then go from there.

I know a lot of people who monogram at least some of their shirts, and have at least one friend who moongrams nearly all of his. Like me, he has a suffix to his name, and he throws the "III" onto the end of each monogram, which does seem a bit affected, so I would leave out my Roman numeral.

Of the people I know who wear them, these are the ones that stick out: 
1. Above-mentioned friend who uses his suffix -- monograms shirt pockets;
2. Friend with four initials who uses all four initials -- also monograms pockets;
3. Old prep school teacher who had a shirt or two with monograms on his shirt cuff, which never appealed to me but worked for him in his low-key way;
4. Friend's uncle who has a "de _" initial and wears a monogram on the ribcage, in cursive, which I found striking.

Otherwise what I typically see (and which I consider to be less notable) is three initials in navy, below pocket or on pocket of button-downs. I think this is a fine look that can be endearing if worn in the right context, i.e., not when one rolls into the sticks meeting a potential client for the first time, but in a comfortable environment around people one knows.


Edit: I'm only talking about monograms on shirts here.


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## Repp Stripe (Oct 6, 2010)

If you like 'em, do it.

I've always kind of liked the ones in the same color as the shirt.

Put them where you want. The elbow idea makes me laugh too. 

I've never cared to pay extra for them.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

For me only my Lands' End canvas and leather attache and one pair of cufflinks. A couple of pens in the past. Never on a shirt. I guess because of the connotation bestowed upon them by people I have known who wore them. One was an egomaniac. One was a small town politician who wore them on his collar and embarrassed his constituency. It is the sort of out-of-the-ordinary thing most people have seen certain people do and have often formed opinions based on that. Making a good first impression is so important, I don't want it to turn on the whim of something that few people really care for. My advice--enjoy your argyles and ps. Don't ruin a good shirt with something you may regret. It really adds nothing positive to your look. It's a whim--I've had it--it will pass.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Actually, this thread is making me want to do the elbow thing. I may have to order a LE OCBD next month for just this purpose


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Interesting location. Can LE accommodate this? The location isn't noted in the ordering process.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

No idea. If I do it, I'll call in and ask


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## Benson (Aug 28, 2009)

I suppose monograms might seem silly, if not wholly affected, to most, particularly on a sleeve cuff, but when they are out of sight, as they should be, what will appearances matter? Nonetheless, I understand your reservation, Trip, as I launder my shirts at home and see no proper reason to put a monogram on my shirt, save my own sense of "who cares and why not?" which eventually led me to include one on my order to Mytailor.com. Self-colored, inside collar where a tag might be, but below a shirt pocket seems fine, too.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I think it goes to the personality of clothes and the details that develop this personality. To an extent we're all here because we see more than just a garment. We share the common history of a style of dress, traditions of manufacturing, and the larger narrative into which the style fits. 

Whether it's the top button hole on the lapel as it folds over, the subtle wear at the collar of a shirt, the patches added after holes appeared in the elbows, or, dare I say, a subtle monogram, the details give the clothing identity as they age. Look no further than ds23pallas' (sorry I've been picking on you these past few days!) terrific posts that often include garments from his father or pieces that have been worn down, repaired, and worn down again. To me the idea of a monogram is just one more detail to leave your mark on the clothing you love and whether it survives to get passed on or not it is all the more personal while in service.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Just curious, as I'm certainly no authority on monograms...If a shirt has a pocket, shouldn't the monogram go on the top portion of the pocket? Isn't the lower on the ribcage thing something you would do on a shirt that had not pocket...typically MTM or custom?


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I don't think that the location is pocket-dependant, but I could be wrong. I've never seen any Monogram Laws. I've seen it on both and like the location. It's mostly private with just the most remote possibility of being seen.


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## M. Morgan (Dec 19, 2009)

Trip English said:


> I think it goes to the personality of clothes and the details that develop this personality. To an extent we're all here because we see more than just a garment. We share the common history of a style of dress, traditions of manufacturing, and the larger narrative into which the style fits.
> 
> Whether it's the top button hole on the lapel as it folds over, the subtle wear at the collar of a shirt, the patches added after holes appeared in the elbows, or, dare I say, a subtle monogram, the details give the clothing identity as they age. Look no further than ds23pallas' (sorry I've been picking on you these past few days!) terrific posts that often include garments from his father or pieces that have been worn down, repaired, and worn down again. To me the idea of a monogram is just one more detail to leave your mark on the clothing you love and whether it survives to get passed on or not it is all the more personal while in service.


Quite so, Trip, re:narrative and having a historical appreciation and frame of reference, which makes me curious about the history of monogramming, so I'll be scanning the intertubes about it and see if I happen upon anything interesting.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

May it yield a dump truck of information.


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## swb120 (Aug 9, 2005)

I personally love monograms on my dress shirts. I don't think it's any more of an affectation than pocket squares, cuff links, or other sartorial choices made by many on this forum. Any unlike those choices, a monogram is rarely seen by anyone other than the wearer during the work day. I prefer simple block letters, in navy on blue shirts, black on white shirts, on the top portion of the pocket. My grandfather and uncles - all bankers and all Brooks Bros. aficionados, all wore their shirts monogrammed. As a teenager and later, college student, I loved to wear their old monogrammed BB button-downs.


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

I monogram any new shirt purchase. 

I know some don't approve, but I like it. I can't explain why.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

I usually give monogram dress shirts as a gift. White with light gray block letters. The receivers usually are very happy to receive one.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Monograms are best suited to items that are prone to loss or theft. I like 'em on luggage. I put my initials on a couple of hard gun cases when I acquired a vintage one, and liked the way it looked. (Wish I knew who JDW was). I have a silver plate zippo lighter so adorned (gift from my son), as well as a sterling belt buckle from my wife. I've had a few shirts monogrammed in my life, but it hasn't occurred to me to go to the trouble in several years. In short, mongrams are fine, but let discretion be your watchword.

Scott


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

I just don't guess I want to be known as "that guy"..."that guy who always has his initials on his shirts". The whole thing about traditional classic dressing is most people remember you--not your clothes. Mainly though--I just don't like them. If you do, it's your money and you are the one who will be perceived for better or worse. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. Obviously from the diversity of opinion one should do what they think best in the matter and not overthink it.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

"When I first obtained the services of a shirtmaker, a little less than 30 years ago, I looked to Flusser's book, _Making The Man, _for guidance. The issue of monograms on bespoke shirts has always been a delicate one. There is one camp that holds that a gentleman's monogram should only serve its original purpose of identifying the owner of the shirt to the laundry. Fortunately, not being a gentleman, and having always laundered and ironed my own shirts, such a practice strikes me as coy. If verisimilitude is the only goal, then all monograms should be black, perhaps even stamped, and hidden on the inside of the tail of the shirt.

But large, blatant monograms that are garish and scream, "I'm wearing a custom shirt" too are distasteful to me. As are breast pockets on shirts intended for wear with suspenders, I.e., dress shirts. So where to put a monogram? I choose one of Flusser's recommendations and had block letters with just my first and last initial placed about two inches below where a chest pocket would have been, which corresponded with it being perhaps 2 or 3 inches above the waistband of my trousers, and 2 or 3 inches from the center placket. While this was OK, I found it looked drab and frumpy, and while perhaps tasteful, really did nothing for the aesthetic of the whole shirt.

I've always been fond of the Art Deco era and geometric Art Deco designs. When I switched shritmakers, my new shirtmaker had a traditional monogram design that evoked this era. It was a small, elongated diamond, perhaps 3/8 of an inch from top to bottom. Letters placed within are configured to follow the sides of the diamond and become integral to the entire design. The effect was discreet but much more aesthetically pleasing than simple block letters. Being a largish fellow, this monogram placed in a similar position to my original location appeared perhaps even more discreet, yet lent an aesthetic embellishment to the shirt. 

I again had fun playing clothing designer by selecting the thread to be used for this monogram. My objective was to subtlety enrich the appearance of the shirt without obtrusive contrast. One of my favorites was white thread. Placed on a white shirt it's about as subtle as one could wish. Also very nice on light blue or blue and white striped or checked shits. Maroon worked well with just about everything too, and I love maroon. Navy, ditto. And silver gray fit in as well. No polo players, please! But not coy either. "

I'll add that I am also fond of yellow thread for a monogram. But remember, mine are very small in relationship to the shirt body. In that scale, yellow can be an interesting accent color, and it tends to compliment almost any color or pattern. ​


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Saltydog said:


> Just curious, as I'm certainly no authority on monograms...If a shirt has a pocket, shouldn't the monogram go on the top portion of the pocket? Isn't the lower on the ribcage thing something you would do on a shirt that had not pocket...typically MTM or custom?


Centered on the pocket is what I've seen and had done with shirts I had made with a pocket.


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

I've had some shirts monogrammed in the past (cuff) but have not done so in several years. I have four initials which most retailers will not do, they will only do three. LE used to and then they stopped. Whatever makes you happy!

GW


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

When I first started wearing OCBD's, in h.s. (very preppy public school) and college (also public but since all my friends dressed like hippies, I rebelled by wearing trad) I had my shirts monogrammed because that was what was done. On the breast pocket -- it was very hot climate and the OCBD's were mostly half-sleeve. The monograms were ostentatious, I admit, because none of us wore jackets, so the monogram would be seen. The breast pocket monogram -- on an OCBD -- or lower on a dressier non-button down shirt sans pocket -- was originally not meant to be seen since once upon a time, even before mine, a gentleman never removed his jacket in public, certainly not at work. The cuff monogram is definitely meant to be seen and, therefore, has a showy and certainly not trad connotation. Also, I can't bring myself to wear someone's monogram and have passed on some very high quality thrift shop finds for that reason, possibly a sin of vanity. I had some OCBD's that I had monogrammed, but having gained weight, passed on to my son. Since I only had first and surname initials and his middle name is same as mine, I simply had his first name initial added. For the record, he finds white and blue OCBD's square and has yet to wear them. I tell him, you will.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> But large, blatant monograms that are garish and scream, "I'm wearing a custom shirt" too are distasteful to me.


This is the connection that I don't get. Lands' End will monogram a $29 shirt for an additional $5. Other places do as well, most people know this. I suppose a monogrammed shirt is "custom" in the sense that it has (hopefully) the wearers initials.

On a slightly related note. It seems that 99% of the women in this town have started "monogramming" the rear windows of their cars with vinyl decals about 3" x 6" with an ornate font. Makes me grit my teeth. Not that I care what anybody else does. : )


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

WFB, Jr. wore monograms.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corn...nal-review-i-so-many-us-do/kathryn-jean-lopez

So did JFK. That is good enough for me. If you like them, go for it.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

WFB? Sold.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Dragoon said:


> On a slightly related note. It seems that 99% of the women in this town have started "monogramming" the rear windows of their cars with vinyl decals about 3" x 6" with an ornate font. Makes me grit my teeth. Not that I care what anybody else does. : )


These must be the ones who don't have the stick figure families that include the pets, or the long row of slightly overlapping prep school booster club stickers, showing that they've timed their breeding to have at least one child perpetually enrolled at Westminster.

When I buy shirts from Brooks Brothers, I have them monogrammed with a lozenge (elongated diamond) pattern where the top of the pocket would be. White shirts get light grey thread, other colors get slightly darker versions of the body color. I think that's sufficiently subtle.

The only real air of exclusivity I could see being derived from a monogram is that they're difficult to hand down to one's children or younger siblings.


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## M. Morgan (Dec 19, 2009)

Miket61 said:


> These must be the ones who don't have the stick figure families that include the pets


I have a friend who, being young and unmarried, jokingly claims he's going to put up a stick figure of his one-man family on the back of his car. That might be the only rear window stick family I would support.


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## Repp Stripe (Oct 6, 2010)

I don't understand the sentiment that one cannot pass down a monogrammed article of clothing or that one cannot wear an inherited monogram.

I would proudly wear an inherited monogram of my father's or grandfather's and hope that if and when I do have a child he or she will feel the same. 

In fact I'd rather wear an inherited monogram than my own.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Repp Stripe said:


> In fact I'd rather wear an inherited monogram than my own.


I'm thinking mainly of shirts, which do wear out. For any sort of monogrammed silver (cufflinks, money clip, flask, etc.) it's probably preferable to have a male ancestor's initials on it.

As far as I know, my father never had anything monogrammed. But he hated his middle name, so he probably wanted to avoid questions.


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## erbs (Feb 18, 2008)

I would definitely wear a monogrammed shirt with my father or grandfather's monogram.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Trip English said:


> The only monograms that appeal to me (and the ones I'd get if I did), are the tiny block letter initials below the chest pocket of the shirt.
> 
> Otherwise, I actually like putting tiny words where monograms should be. Some may recall my "BROKE" engine turned belt buckle. This may also be an option.


That "Broke" buckle is a classic!!

Perhaps your pocket monogram should read "WTF?"


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I like that idea. I've been thinking a lot about my monograms as I'm almost certainly going to take the plunge, but I'd like one out of three to be some small word. WTF will certainly be added to the list of potentials. OMG will be added as well.


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## shepdawg (Jul 31, 2011)

I'm thinking of using my initials, ARS. But also possibly RIL (Res Ipsa Loquitur)


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Trip English said:


> I like that idea. I've been thinking a lot about my monograms as I'm almost certainly going to take the plunge, but I'd like one out of three to be some small word. WTF will certainly be added to the list of potentials. OMG will be added as well.


Trip, I'll have to grab you pictures. I've gone with OMG, WTF, and HI on the back collar of my 3 lands end OCBDs. Always in the thread color of the shirt (white on white). Not sure anyone's Ever noticed, but I like 'em. Highly suggested!


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Trip English said:


> WTF will certainly be added to the list of potentials


Do WTF classy, like so -


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