# Stupid Question: Narrow end of tie not long enough to reach loop?



## Slice57 (Feb 26, 2010)

So I recently started wearing neckties on a daily basis for work. Problem is, regardless of the knot I use, the narrow end is never long enough to reach the "loop" on the back of the tie that will keep it in place. So now when I walk around, the narrow part of the tie ends of being visible. I'm 6'2 and have a 16 1/2 " neck.

I'd like to avoid buying XL long ties. Aside from sticking the narrow end in my shirt or wearing a tie tack, is there something I can do to keep it in place?

Thank you


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## Finian McLonergan (Sep 23, 2009)

This sounds like a problem more than a few large tall men are having due to the low waisted trousers that are now almost ubiquitous in the RTW suit market, so by no means a stupid question.

Other than removing the loop and sewing it back on higher up, the only other options I see are XL/bespoke ties or higher waisted/rise trousers.


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## ada8356 (Dec 14, 2007)

There's not a lot of ways to 'fix' this issue other than getting longer ties and/or going custom. If you check out Sam Hober (link under Andy's Selected Merchants) they do custom ties for a very fair price.


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## ada8356 (Dec 14, 2007)

FYI - I too have a 16.5 neck and at 5' 10" I run into this problem when tying a half-windsor on some ties and almost always when I use a full windsor.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

You can pin the small end to the back of the larger end with a saftey, or even, a straight pin. But assuming you tie your tie to proper point, and don't wear your slacks too low, you would probably do better with longer ties.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Why are you avoiding buying longer ties? That's why they make longer ties. It's nothing more than common sense. If your tie isn't long enough to do what you want it to do, the tie is simply too short for your height, neck size, and knot you are using; or some combination of these things. The only logical solution is to buy longer ties.

Cruiser


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## Slice57 (Feb 26, 2010)

I was looking for a solution other then buying longer ties due to financial constraints. I'm recently out of law school and after buying several suits, jackets, shirts, pants, shoes, belts, I was hoping to get by with the 20 or ties I already had. 

Also, I always see regular length ties on sale, but never the XL variety. So basically it boils down to trying to save money.

Thank you for the responses.


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

Could you move the loop farther up the tie? I've thought about doing this myself.


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## mlongano (Feb 3, 2010)

Try to allocate $100.00 per month for the next year and purchase one tie each month from Sam Hober. At the end of the year you'll have twelve high quality ties that fit perfectly and will provide good service to you for many years to come...

...with any luck at all, at the end of the twelve month period you'll be laughing at the days when purchasing a quality tie was such a financial burden.

Congratulations on completing law school!!


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

As Finian suggested, I wonder if the problem isn't that you're wearing your dress trousers on your hips, rather than your waist. Answer me this: Do you wear your suit pants at the same place, relative to your torso, as your jeans? If so, you're almost certainly wearing them too low.

Also, remember that there's no need to have the long end of the tie reach below the top of your waistband. You can be entirely traditional and leave it an inch or two _shorter_ than your waistband. Less length on front means more length available in back.

Another thing you can do to get a touch more length out of a tie is to use the "oriental" knot, which is basically an overhand knot tied around the skinny end... it does require that you put the tie on inside-out. Should get you another .5-1" of tie length, which may be enough to get the small end to the keeper.

Slice, congratulations on the JD. Lots of naysayser, both non-lawyers and disgruntled lawyers, will try to tell you that you should hate your new life. Ignore them. I actually know a lot of happy lawyers - including me!


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

The first thing is this: what knot do you use? I think the commonest reason for ties being too short is the unfortunate use of the hideous so-called "Windsor" knot. If you tie a four in hand, arguably the best knot of them all in the first place, you should encounter fewer problems.


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

Dear Op, I have the exact same problem. I tuck the short end of the tie into my shirt above the second button. It never comes loose and no one is the wiser.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

I did some experimenting. After three tries with both knots, I found that the full Windsor consistently uses about an inch more tie than a four-in-hand (twice around). So if you're using a FW, switching to a 4iH will gain you another inch. But frankly, I'd get the big end where you want it and the heck with where the short end is - it shouldn't show anyway unless your tie is loose and wandering around. If the short end is showing, then maybe either you're tying your tie too loose or your shirt collar is too big.


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## jjskywlker (Dec 9, 2009)

Two words, tie bar.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

The answer is obvious. You need a longer tie. Honestly tucking the tie in your shirt is one of those things people come here to learn how to avoid doing so you simply have to face the fact that you are not a munchkin and should not wear their clothes. Depending on the knot you probably need a tie that measures from 60 to 62 inches. Give the little tie to some unfortunate leprechaun.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

The solution isn't to get longer ties, it's to get trousers with a longer rise. Since you are so tall, your trousers probably don't reach anywhere close to your waist. Find a place where you can get long rise trousers and then your tie problems will be solved too.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> Why are you avoiding buying longer ties? That's why they make longer ties. It's nothing more than common sense. If your tie isn't long enough to do what you want it to do, the tie is simply too short for your height, neck size, and knot you are using; or some combination of these things. The only logical solution is to buy longer ties.
> 
> Cruiser


Beat me to it.

I fail to see the logic in refusing to buy longer ties. I buy shorter garments because I'm short.

Try tie tacks if saving money is your only concern.

www.augustusbrine.com. All his ties are long, I couldn't find any for my short stature.


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## Benjamin E. (Mar 2, 2007)

When you get the money, look for longer ties. Also, if you're not wearing your pants at the waist, do that. If all else fails, sew the loop higher up on the tie. One of my deans has asked me to do this several times. It's not complicated unless the loop is sewn through the center seam in the back of the tie. Otherwise, it's not that hard.


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## Master-Classter (Jan 22, 2009)

send me a few inches off the top!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Slice57 said:


> So basically it boils down to trying to save money.


While the concept of thrift/consignment shops has never had that much appeal for me, ties are a different matter. With the price for good quality new ties often around $100 for $10 worth of silk and $5 worth of labor, self-preservation becomes an issue. While I haven't shopped them there, I understand that high quality, good looking ties can be had dirt-cheap. Would also think E-Bay might be a source.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

harvey_birdman said:


> Dear Op, I have the exact same problem. I tuck the short end of the tie into my shirt above the second button. It never comes loose and no one is the wiser.


+1. Been doing this for years and indeed, it works like a charm!


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## ada8356 (Dec 14, 2007)

> I did some experimenting. After three tries with both knots, I found that the full Windsor consistently uses about an inch more tie than a four-in-hand (twice around). So if you're using a FW, switching to a 4iH will gain you another inch. But frankly, I'd get the big end where you want it and the heck with where the short end is - it shouldn't show anyway unless your tie is loose and wandering around. If the short end is showing, then maybe either you're tying your tie too loose or your shirt collar is too big.


The half-windsor is also a good option. I much prefer it to a four-in-hand due it's nice symmetry.


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## Wildblue (Oct 11, 2009)

Everybody above covers your options. I have the same problem myself as a tall guy with a decent neck. However, the guys are right that say that the only REAL solution is longer ties. Believe me--everything else is a compromise. Over time, tucking the tail in your shirt feels lumpy, makes the tie itself pop out a bit, and still sometimes shows. Wearing a thinner weight or white dress shirt, the tail can sometimes also be seen through the shirt. Doing things like wearing higher pants or constantly hiking them up only covers over the problem. If you had really long arms, would you walk around hunched all the time so your sleeves didn't ride up and show your wrists? Or would you buy jackets with longer sleeves?

Those that say things like "well, it SHOULDN'T show" might be right in sartorial theory, but we none of us wear our clothes in sterile, motionless theory. In application, we wear clothes in real world situations with gravity, motion, wind, contaminants, etc. So, being practical and acknowledging budgets, if I were you, I'd do the best I could right now by choosing your knots, considering moving up your retention straps on the tie backs, and using a tie tack/bar as needed. 

But from here on out, buy only long ties. If you get them from the right places, they're readily available for any tie in inventory and only cost $2 to $10 extra. (i.e. Paul Fredrick, and with Sam Hober you get your tie in a completely custom length!) Trying to stay with the practical theme, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about with not always finding ties in long length, or going shopping and seeing a tie you like on sale for a good price, but it's just a standard length. I still buy those myself, but WITHOUT EXCEPTION, I get a bit peevish every time I put on a tie that comes up short, and ALL of my ties that I enjoy wearing the most are of longer length, even if I like the style better of some of my shorter ties.

Over time, I've come to realize that, as a tall guy that's decently big, to get things that truly do fit right, I, more often than not, can NOT buy off the rack. (another example is me realizing that several of my OTR shirts that I had to buy large enough to get a big enough collar, or longer sleeves, are made WAYYY too big in the chest. And even then, the sleeves are often still not truly long enough, unless I find the rare "tall" size, and even then they're sometimes TOO long!)


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

ada8356 said:


> The half-windsor is also a good option. I much prefer it to a four-in-hand due it's nice symmetry.


The Pratt Knot ties even smaller. I think its called a pratt... Starts with the tie upside down.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

I'm 6'3 with a long torso. I've always had trouble with the small end being too short. There are several ways around this.

1) Buy extra long ties. Not everyone offers them, but the big retailers do.
2) Have your regular ties lengthened. It's not always cheap, normally $25 or so per tie. Try the online Tiecrafters.
3) Buy custom made ties.
4) Secure the small end to your shirt. Tuck, pin, tie bar, etc.
5) Find ties with less padding that will allow for smaller knots
6) Tie smaller knots like the FIH or Pratt
7) Raise the tie loop further up the tie.

I've been this tall since I was 14 or so. I've done all of these except the custom tie route, and that's only because the other 6 options work just fine for me.


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

My low tech solution is to take piece of scotch tape and make it into a circle with the sticky side out and tape the short end to the back of the wide end. Alternatively you can you double sided tape. 

No one ever sees what's going on.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

mhj said:


> My low tech solution is to take piece of scotch tape and make it into a circle with the sticky side out and tape the short end to the back of the wide end. Alternatively you can you double sided tape.


I'm sorry, but... :crazy:?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

CuffDaddy said:


> I'm sorry, but... :crazy:?


Actually, to me, it sounds like a serviceable, if "low-tech" way to substitute for the loop.

I actually don't bother with the loop anyway, but I'm only 5' 9" and don't have this problem.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Yeah, I let the little guy run free. The end of my tie, I mean. Why, what did you think I meant?


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## 12345Michael54321 (Mar 6, 2008)

Slice57 said:


> I was hoping to get by with the 20 or ties I already had.


20 ties, and you've only now begun to realize that they're too short? Seems like the sort of thing a man might notice by the second or third tie. But whatever.



> Also, I always see regular length ties on sale, but never the XL variety. So basically it boils down to trying to save money.


I hear you.

FWIW, I'm a little over 6 feet tall, with a nearly 18" neck. I've found that https://www.thetiebar.com offers a large variety of extra long ties, of generally good quality, at quite reasonable prices.

Sell your too short ties, take the resulting money, and buy a few extra long ties. You'll be better off with 10 ties that are the right length, than with 40 that are too short.
-- 
Michael


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

How expensive is it to have a second tie "loop" sewn on?


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Leighton said:


> How expensive is it to have a second tie "loop" sewn on?


Pretty cheap I would guess.


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## deandbn (Mar 6, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> You can pin the small end to the back of the larger end with a saftey, or even, a straight pin. But assuming you tie your tie to proper point, and don't wear your slacks too low, you would probably do better with longer ties.


I agree with Mr Flanders, I do this as well. Just quick and easy!!


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## Bookman (May 19, 2010)

tie bar works great...and so does the scotch tape (very low cost and works perfectly well)...


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

1. Use a bobby pin to clip the narrow blade to the back of the wide blade. With the capped ends of the Bobby pin and its low pressure, it should do the trick without injuring you or the tie. 

2. Stop trying and keep the ends separate as sprezzatura.


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