# A Discussion on Corduroy Trousers



## WilliamMMLeftfoot (Jun 14, 2009)

I'm curious, do you prefer wide or narrow wale corduroy trousers? What is more traditional in America v. Britain (if applicable)? I've read that wide-wale is more "casual" whereas narrow-wale is more "modern," is this true? I can't seem to find any wide-wale ones online anyhow, as Cordings, Brooks Brothers, and Orvis all carry only narrow-wale.


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

My personal preference is 8-wale. You can find 4-wale at J. Peterman.


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## Reds & Tops (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm not a big fan of the large wale cords. I don't know what about them exactly bothers me, but I prefer 8 wale and smaller.

Can't claim to know the genesis of the cloth, but here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:

"While the word "corduroy" looks as if it should have a French origin, as if derived from "corde du roi" ("cloth/cord of the king"), in fact there is no such phrase in French, and the word, like the cloth, is of English origin, probably from _cord_ plus the obsolete _duroy_, a coarse woolen fabric.[1] Corduroy is believed to have been first produced in Leeds, England."

And here is a good article by English mill Brisbane & Moss.

There doesn't seem to be reference to a certain wale being more American or British. In fact, it would appear that there isn't a distinction at all.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Quite an interesting topic - my presumption has always been that the narrower the wale, the more casual the trousers. Quite possibly, this presumption on my part stems from wearing Levis narrow wale corduroy jeans as a kid in the 1970s. 

I just checked some of my corduroy trousers and the ones cut as trousers (8 pair) run from 8 to 11 wale while the ones cut as jeans (2 pair) run from 13 to 16 wale.


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## WilliamMMLeftfoot (Jun 14, 2009)

From eHow.com: 

"Avoid wearing wide-wale corduroy at all costs; it looks old-fashioned and dated. Instead, look for thin or super-thin wale, which looks like velvet."

J. Peterman on 4 - Wale Corduroy Trousers:

"Very uncitified"



. . . I must say though, most of what you see seems to be narrow-wale, X > 8. Personally, I prefer 8 or bellow, but can't seem to find them in stores.

By the way, how do we distinguish them? Below 8, Wide-Wale. 8,9 Medium Wale? Above 9, Narrow-Wale?


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

I think the lower the number the thicker the wale. 8 is amedium wale. 12 is finer. 4 is large wale.


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## Acacian (Jul 10, 2007)

Cardinals5 said:


> Quite an interesting topic - my presumption has always been that the narrower the wale, the more casual the trousers. Quite possibly, this presumption on my part stems from wearing Levis narrow wale corduroy jeans as a kid in the 1970s.


Same here, and that's actually why I like wide-wale corduroys. The narrow wale ones remind me too much of those I wore as a kid, with the accompanying "zip-zip-zip" sound they made while running around on the playground.

I wore wide wales in college a lot (late 80s) and my roommates made fun of me for wearing "old man pants", but it didn't bother me a bit.


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## SartoNYC (Feb 22, 2005)

*Wide wale - Cordings of Piccadilly*

Substantial cords are still available at Cordings in London. These are the best ones I have found and they usually go on sale right around Christmas. New & Lingwood also have essentially the same trousers, and their holiday discount is bigger. Still made in the UK.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

I only own narrow wale 5 pocket cords, but am looking for some larger wale cords. I like the way the wider wale, more trouser-like cords look.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Wide wale cords can be gotten from O'Connells. They may not have the pants on the website, but they have them in the store, so call them or send an e-mail. In fact, almost anything can be had from O'Connells so they _should_ be the go-to store for everything "trad".

I find the narrow wale cords much warmer in winter, wereas wide wale cords seem to allow too much wind through the gaps between the ridges. Unfortunately, my only pair of narrow wale cords were long ago handed-up to my dad who wears them often in winter. Oddly, I have never run across another pair of narrow wale cords in a store, although I admit I don't go out of my way to look for them.


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

*narrow-wale..*

..It's been a long time since I've seen any, but weren't the Bill's Dixie cords a pincord?


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## KCKclassic (Jul 27, 2009)

Ralph Lauren has some decent wide wale cord trousers. I like mine a lot, hefty fabric, and thus fairly warm. I just have the one pair, the rest of my cords are thinner wale 5 pocket types......which I also love. Corduroy is one of my favorite fabrics, for no particular reason.


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## Ruslev (Mar 10, 2009)

I thought wide wale were more casual than thin wale?

I also found this:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Oh no...not another website but, I do love curduroy!


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## Solidarity (Oct 1, 2009)

J. Peterman? Himilayan walking shoes?


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## jbryanb (Oct 2, 2006)

Lambourne from Britain makes wide wale cords, in a very thick, heavy weight which I prefer.
Sierra Trading Post usually has them on sale.


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## RTW (Jan 7, 2006)

Bookster makes very nice 8-wale corduroy trousers.
I'm anticipating the arrival of a few pairs soon... :icon_smile:
You can use the "clydesdale" Ask Andy promotional code for 5% off your order.


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## Naive. Jr. (Dec 4, 2008)

RTW said:


> Bookster makes very nice 8-wale corduroy trousers.


Dear RTW, since you are an expert I would like to ask you to elaborate why you prefer Bookster's version of 8-wale corduroy trousers.

Another problem: Don't you think it a disadvantage that Bookster's is an outsourcer? In other words, Bookster does not make the clothes, but gives the job to others?


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## Naive. Jr. (Dec 4, 2008)

SartoNYC said:


> Substantial cords are still available at Cordings in London. These are the best ones I have found and they usually go on sale right around Christmas. New & Lingwood also have essentially the same trousers, and their holiday discount is bigger. Still made in the UK.


I have just looked at the cordoroy trousers on the Cordings website and seen several nice colours. Is the similarity of the corduroy trousers offered by New & Lingwood because they have the same trouser manufacturer as Cordings?

Do you know if both trousers have the same mill? Do you know which corduroy mill is employed to provide the corduroy for either retailer?


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Naive said:


> Another problem: Don't you think it a disadvantage that Bookster's is an outsourcer? In other words, Bookster does not make the clothes, but gives the job to others?


Yeah, all those Savile Row shops who outsource their making are junk, too.

Seriously, why on earth would this be a problem? Peter's a nice guy, but I'd rather have him focused on what he's good at--designing, sourcing, marketing, and selling--and leave the actual making to people who are skilled at it. What does it matter if they work in his shop or their own?


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## Naive. Jr. (Dec 4, 2008)

Seriously, it is a problem only in the sense of a feeling and lack of knowledge. I have not yet ordered anything from Bookster. I have never been to Scotland and I don't know the circumstances. I was rather surprised to hear that Bookster doesn't make the clothes himself. Perhaps it makes no difference. If so, I'm happy about it, because I must not fear something disorderly. - Furthermore, if it is the case that Savile Row outsources (which I do remember reading before on this website elsewhere), then Bookster is in good company.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

I have both wide and narrower. I suppose if I had to choose one or the other, I would go with the wide.


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## Serenus (Jun 19, 2009)

I bought two IDENTICAL pairs of cordoroys from BB last month. Identical, that is, except that one was "stone" and the other was "olive". After two washes, the stone pair shrunk enough that the length was exactly right for me, but there was no such shrinkage on the olive!

I know there has been some discussion here about pants from BB shrinking, but I was quite surprised that this happened to me.


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## WilliamMMLeftfoot (Jun 14, 2009)

Don't most cotton pants shrink in the wash anyway?


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## RTW (Jan 7, 2006)

Naive said:


> Dear RTW, since you are an expert I would like to ask you to elaborate why you prefer Bookster's version of 8-wale corduroy trousers.
> 
> Another problem: Don't you think it a disadvantage that Bookster's is an outsourcer? In other words, Bookster does not make the clothes, but gives the job to others?


Well, I'm not really an expert. However, after comparing several different corduroy trousers I find the fabric Bookster uses is substantial with a nice hand. The trousers are made to order so that you can choose your options - some of which are difficult to find elsewhere. Also, Bookster customer service is top notch. The price (including shipping from UK) was very reasonable - less than the retail price for quality cordurory cords from Bills, O'Connells, etc. when ordering several pair.

I don't think it it's a disadvantage thet Bookster is an outsourcer.
O'Connells, The Andover Shop, Ben Silver, and other quality mens clothing stores do this.


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## bookster1uk (Jun 1, 2007)

RTW said:


> Well, I'm not really an expert. However, after comparing several different corduroy trousers I find the fabric Bookster uses is substantial with a nice hand. The trousers are made to order so that you can choose your options - some of which are difficult to find elsewhere. Also, Bookster customer service is top notch. The price (including shipping from UK) was very reasonable - less than the retail price for quality cordurory cords from Bills, O'Connells, etc. when ordering several pair.
> 
> I don't think it it's a disadvantage thet Bookster is an outsourcer.
> O'Connells, The Andover Shop, Ben Silver, and other quality mens clothing stores do this.


I don't think we should be placed in the typical category of 'outsourcers', we work so closely with our various tailors , in the minutest detail,every order is worked on individually and carefully, we know the individual people we work with by name, we see each other often, speak several times a day,we are more like friends with common interests and aims. The admin side is handled late into the night and at weekends. This isn't bad time management, its attention to details and customer service, pre and post sale. I would like to think that puts us in a different league. Our refusal to truly outsource, inc the overseas option, is a limiting factor. Finding people with the high level of skill we require is not easy, in fact we are having to develop a training programme to allow for our future plans without any compromise to our standards, rather than find an easier option. Its very frustrating as we have so many other great ideas we want to introduce, but we would rather get where we want to go slowly, than cut corners to 'cash in'. We ain't perfect, but we try to be, and remain affordable.

Rule Brittania (whats left of it)


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2020)

When I was a kid, I wore wide wale corduroys and I loved it. When I was in High School and College, narrow wale corduroy jeans were very popular (Levi's, Wrangler, Lee, Lois). In many schools, the only kind of jeans allowed were corduroy jeans, mostly 12 or 14 wales per inch. 

When I became a college professor, Levi's cord jeans were 10 wales per inch. However, almost all my Ralph Lauren pants are 8 wales per inch. 

I agree with those who say that 8 w is regular or medium. 7 or less is really wide wale. My preference goes for 8, 9 or 10 wales. I am a moderate. Last week, I bought the nicest Levi's corduroy chino which are 9 wales. They are so comfortable. 

I wear 12 and 14 w corduroy jeans only during Spring and Fall (Levi's, Tommy Hilfiger, Tristan, Orvieto, etc.). I usually wear thicker 7, 8 or 9 wales when it gets colder here in Montreal in October up to April or depending on the weather. Less than 7 wales, I don't really like because often it is rather plushy rather than velvety. 

During June, July and August, I usually wear corduroy shorts, bermuda style or short OP style shorts. Did I tell you? I love to wear corduroys. BTW, I have a closet full of corduroy suits.


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