# Buying shoes without trying them on - how do you know they will be comfortable?



## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

I've always had difficulty buying shoes - even in-store - just because I find that most shoes are not comfortable (not to mention that sizes and shapes/cuts may also vary greatly between brands and lines). I see people buying shoes online all the time (Zappos, eBay, AAAC, etc), but can't understand how. How do you know that the shoes you buy will be comfortable without trying them on (assuming that both you and the seller/retailer have accurate foot measurements)?


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

imme said:


> I've always had difficulty buying shoes - even in-store - just because I find that most shoes are not comfortable (not to mention that sizes and shapes/cuts may also vary greatly between brands and lines). I see people buying shoes online all the time (Zappos, eBay, AAAC, etc), but can't understand how. How do you know that the shoes you buy will be comfortable without trying them on (assuming that both you and the seller/retailer have accurate foot measurements)?


Well, you kind of don't know until you try them. But once you know your correct size, and if you have experience with a certain brand, there is a relative certainty they're going to be comfortable.

I must say I have tricky feet to fit, but have never found that "most shoes are uncomfortable" as you mention. What kind of shoes have you found uncomfortable in particular? You say "most" but that's pretty broad. Johnston & Murphy, Allen Edmonds, Cole Haan, Kenneth Cole? Or do you just mean any dress style shoes?

Are you mostly used to wearing athletic shoes?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

If you have an odd size foot, (barring being able to afford bespoke) or flat feet, no shoe would probably feel comfortable. (Shoes that don't fit well are awful.)

I wonder if that is what the OP is getting at.


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> If you have an odd size foot, (barring being able to afford bespoke) or flat feet, no shoe would probably feel comfortable. (Shoes that don't fit well are awful.)
> 
> I wonder if that is what the OP is getting at.


Perhaps so. I have large flat feet and a set of orthotics really works for me.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

The only way I know that mail order shoes will be comfortable is to order them custom made from Russell's. I've learned not to order shoes online from anyone else. Try. Them. On. First!


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## Dieu et les Dames (Jul 18, 2012)

It's a crapshoot for me. I buy within my range and hope for the best. Probably half of the shoes end up re-sold on ebay. If I buy new, it's Zappos or Amazon for their amazing return policies.

Why do you find so many shoes uncomfortable?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

StylinLa said:


> Well, you kind of don't know until you try them. But once you know your correct size, and if you have experience with a certain brand, there is a relative certainty they're going to be comfortable.
> 
> I must say I have tricky feet to fit, but have never found that "most shoes are uncomfortable" as you mention. What kind of shoes have you found uncomfortable in particular? You say "most" but that's pretty broad. Johnston & Murphy, Allen Edmonds, Cole Haan, Kenneth Cole? Or do you just mean any dress style shoes?
> 
> Are you mostly used to wearing athletic shoes?


Sorry, "most" was a sweeping generalization. Admittedly, I don't have much experience with trying on dress shoes. Beyond the pair of Florsheim I purchased along with a bespoke suit ~7 years ago (but have worn all of thrice because I was always worried about scratching/damaging my "nice" shoes), I don't know that I've ever tried on any of the "higher end" shoes you mentioned.

For the past several years, I've only worn runners when I go out in the evenings (unless I'm coming from work, in which case I'm still wearing dress shoes). I actually wear dress shoes every day. Or, rather, I wear black shoes every day. My default up until recently was a pair of black Rockport walking shoes. As of late, it is a pair of black Dr. Comfort FlexOA; I realize the name is ridiculous, but they're very comfortable on busy days that have me walking/running around the entire time. If I feel like dressing up more, I'll wear my black Rockport dress shoes. But, I only wear them on days I don't expect to be walking around as much; they're comfortable...right up until they're not and I notice that my little toe gets more sore every time it rubs against the side...

I struggle to balance comfort, appearance, and price when it comes to shoes (not to mention how easy it would be to remove blood and other assorted body fluids that may or may not come into contact with the shoes on a daily basis).

ETA: I don't have flat feet, but I don't have a large arch, either. The other part of it is that I also don't have narrow feet. One reason many shoes that should fit me length-wise are uncomfortable is that they are too narrow - either in the area of the arch or toes - or too loose in the heel area.


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## Faust (May 1, 2012)

I've had very good luck ordering from the AE Shoebank. First, find out your size, then order. It can be trial and error.


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## Dieu et les Dames (Jul 18, 2012)

Sounds like you actually _need_ some Alden's. They're made on a combination last. So you can buy something that fits wide in the toe box and narrow at the heel. They're pricey, but well worth it.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

I don't see why you percieve a problem. IF purchased from a site with liberal return policies, such as AE, or Zappos the only difficulty is a trip to the UPS store and a few dollars in shipping. Probably about what you'd spend on gas and parking going to the store. Then there is the time savings and convenience of trying them on at home. Just make sure to stay on the carpeting so you don't mar the soles.
It's no different from ordering other clothes online. The fit between manufacturers and different models is always a crapshoot. With clothes you have the otion of returning them or taking them to the tailor. With shoes you just return them and order the correct size.

BTW Woodlore sells a shoe stretcher that works well for relieving small pressure points.

Also shaving down callouses and corns is a vital but oft overlooked necessity. If diabetic or having neuropathy this should be performed by a Podiatrist on a regular basis.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Thank you all for the tips, suggestions, questions, and insight so far .

I measured my foot (length 10.25" and 4" at the widest part of the foot, per this guide: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=102267) and it says my shoe size is 8.75E (US). Depending on the shoe style and brand, I believe my current shoes are almost all size 9-9.5. Am I measuring incorrectly?


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## Kreiger (Nov 6, 2011)

You probably are measuring correctly. Your 'true' size for dress shoes will normally be smaller than what you take for sneaker-sized shoes. If you have a wider foot, which it seems you do, you may also be buying a longer shoe than you need so you can get the width that you need.


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

As I suspected you don't wear a lot of what we would consider dress shoes. I think some of the discomfort you mention is simply that, and proper dress shoes are a different fit than you're used to.

You may also benefit from going to an "E" width. I wore a D width for years, but started getting some slight fit and rubbing issues. I believe there is an Allen Edmonds store in Minneapolis. Go try a shoe in your usual length but an E width and see if that helps. I know they are pricey, but if you splurge for one pair, it might serve your immediate needs. Also be clear, I'm sure the Edmonds people would allow you buy and wear around the house to check for fit over some time. Just stay on carpet and *don't *scuff the soles at all.

E width shoes are unfortunately hard to find. EEE is much more abundant, but may be way too wide for you...they are for me.
Edmonds and Alden make most all their shoes in an E width (but to be clear, most have to be ordered). The Edmonds store would likely have a handful of E widths in stock in their best selling models (Park Avenue, Strand, Fifth Avenue).

If you find they fit, then you can order shoes on that last with confidence and also use the Shoe Bank.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

I have difficulty getting a comfortable fit in shoes. This is due to the non-standard shape of my feet. From the description of the difference between the OP's measured size and that with which he has been wearing, it may be that he has the same problem I do - the location of the widest part of the foot is in a nonstandard location. 

Whatever the shape of one's foot, it is necessary to measure one's feet. To do this you get your feet measured on a Brannock device, paying particular attention to the size of shoe one should wear based on the location of the widest part of the foot. A competent shoe salesperson can do this, so can an obsessed shoe enthusiast. (I have two Brannocks, US and English.) 

With this informatioon and knowledge of the fits of the various brands and their particular shapes, the aforementioned knowledgable shoe seller should be able to suggest shoes that fit well. The main thing to remember is that there is little if any consistency in size or fit between brands of shoes, or between different shapes of shoes from the same manufacturer. 

Depending on how much time, effort and money one wants to spend on getting comfortable dress shoes, it is possible to find a brand of shoe with a last (the wooden pattern on which a shoe is built) and size that is just right. It could be Aldens, which as noted, have a combination last, meaning that the width of the heel is a different size (narrower) than the width of the front of the shoe. This has been described as a typically American fit. Or, if one's feet are wide in the heels, Loakes would fit better than Aldens. Allen Edmunds has several lasts and many people find at least one of them to provide a good fit in their proper size. 

In my experience none of the above mentioned shoe brands fits me in any of the lasts which they offer. Nor, for that matter, do Lobbs, Churches or most other brands of dress shoes fit comfortably. I have, however, found a size and last combination from Edward Green that fits almost as well as custom made shoes do. I can now mail-order Edward Greens and be certain of getting comfortable shoes. Difficult-to-fit feet are something of a fancy problem. But solving it can be a pleasant diversion.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## alric (Aug 29, 2012)

As a guy who graduated college only a few years ago, I'm still relatively new to wearing good shoes. And as a graduate student, my budget is tight, so I rely heavily on internet sales to afford anything. My solution to figure out what sizes I should look for online was to visit my local Allen Edmonds and get them to fit me. They measured my foot and let me try on a few different styles of shoe. You can ask them to let you try on some different lasts, and this should help you to see if any of their lasts are a particularly good fit. Then you can go home, get on the AE website, and look for all the models of shoe that are made on that same last that fit you well. If you find one of those models on ebay or the thrift exchange here, you'll know it fits you well.

You might feel bad visiting the AE store and getting so much help from them without making a purchase, but if you're anything like me, you'll end up going back later and buying something (I bought a pair of boots in the Rediscover America sale last October from the shoe bank without trying them on, because I'd already been measured and knew they would fit). So don't feel like you're taking advantage of the sales associates - they know that the time they spend helping you figure out your size is an investment in a future customer.


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## H&W (Aug 25, 2013)

imme said:


> I've always had difficulty buying shoes - even in-store - just because I find that most shoes are not comfortable (not to mention that sizes and shapes/cuts may also vary greatly between brands and lines). I see people buying shoes online all the time (Zappos, eBay, AAAC, etc), but can't understand how. How do you know that the shoes you buy will be comfortable without trying them on (assuming that both you and the seller/retailer have accurate foot measurements)?


You do not!

Even with the benefit of being able to occasionally try on shoes for comparison, you are embarking upon an odyssey of shoe purchases rather than a mere journey. Prepare yourself for being dashed onto the siren rocks of "Just adding three tongue pads to these Lobbs!", stabbing a cyclops over a factory second somewhere along the way, and eventually arriving at the perfect last...whereupon you toss all of the accumulated and incorrectly sized suitors into the gaping maw of Ebay. :devil:


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

Kreiger said:


> You probably are measuring correctly. Your 'true' size for dress shoes will normally be smaller than what you take for sneaker-sized shoes. If you have a wider foot, which it seems you do, you may also be buying a longer shoe than you need so you can get the width that you need.


+1

I wear a 10D sneaker but a 9D dress shoe and an 8.5D Indy boot. When in doubt I generally ask around on AAAC or SF about how lasts fit for different makers. It's worked for me so far

Sent from my tinfoil hat


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I suppose it's fair to say ordering shoes online can be a bit of a crap shoot, when it comes to achieving a proper fit. However, your odds can be improved considerably if you have prior experience with a particular brands sizing through brick and mortar store purchases, have an opportunity to discuss and resolve your fit concerns with a knowledgeable sales associate, prior to making the purchase (check out Allen Edmonds, The Shoemart, LeatherSoul...), or can deal with vendors who have liberal return policies. For those of us who live out in the hinterlands, online vendors frequently provide our only access to the better made shoes!


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

When in Budapest recently, I bought a pair of Buday shoes but also stopped by the Vass store so I could determine which of their lasts would best suit my foot for future purchases. The key to buying shoes from a given supplier is to know the proper size and last for your foot. If either one is wrong, you won't be comfortable.

The only reason I felt comfortable buying a pair of shoes from Tyrwhitt last week is their terrific return policy. I have no idea whether this shoe will be comfy or not without trying it on. I look forward to trying on some Meermins the next time I'm in Europe just so I know which of their lasts (if any) will be right for me.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^ so which Vass last fit you best?


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

RogerP said:


> ^^^ so which Vass last fit you best?


The New Peter. Felt great!

Just for comparison, I wear the 5 last (65 last) in AE and the Mako last in Buday.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I do this online. I already know the size and type of shoe I will buy, for example: New Balance Black Sneakers 626, I shop for it, check it out online then I head on the bus to take a ride there, get it, find the shoes I saw online. Cause when you know the size and shoes you want, it becomes easier to shop for yourself so you don't waste time.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

MaxBuck said:


> The New Peter. Felt great!
> 
> Just for comparison, I wear the 5 last (65 last) in AE and the Mako last in Buday.


That's one I haven't tried as the instep fits lower that U,K and F from what I've read.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Uncharacteristically, I got very lucky (in a sense) and managed to finish work early this afternoon. So, I popped by the very nearby AE store and the store manager was kind enough to measure me and talk about shoes and other random interesting stuff. Very nice guy. Well, he measured me as a 7.5E. So, I tried on the 7.5E Black Hills (on sale/clearance for ~$195 from $295), but it was too loose near the heel and too tight near the toes. So, I tried on a 7E in the Black Hills (he said the last is "65-ish") and it fit quite well! They didn't have the color I wanted, so they have ordered it for me so that I can try it on; it should get to the store later this week. Should I bite? This is the first time I've bought *nice*, resolable shoes like this and definitely the first time I have even considered spending this much on a pair of shoes (the only more expensive piece of clothing I own is my bespoke suit that I got almost a decade ago). I'm not averse to spending that much on a pair if they are comfortable I'll get long-term (years-decades) use out of them (including resoling). But, I don't know how to tell if wearing them all day would be comfortable vs just wearing them in the store for a little while. Help!


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

If they are uncomfortable in the store forget about them. If they are comfortable for a few minutes in the store they still may feel tight after a day in them, but should break in. Wear them at home strictly on the carpet for an hour or more so as to not mar the soles. Then they can be exchanged if needed for a better fitting pair. AE themselves recommend this on their website. Having an AE store nearby takes all the guesswork out of it.

Help us out. What is the color of your bespoke suit, and do you intend to wear the shoes with that primarily or for mostly other purposes? What color did you choose?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> If they are uncomfortable in the store forget about them. If they are comfortable for a few minutes in the store they still may feel tight after a day in them, but should break in. Wear them at home strictly on the carpet for an hour or more so as to not mar the soles. Then they can be exchanged if needed for a better fitting pair. AE themselves recommend this on their website. Having an AE store nearby takes all the guesswork out of it.
> 
> Help us out. What is the color of your bespoke suit, and do you intend to wear the shoes with that primarily or for mostly other purposes? What color did you choose?


The suit is out of state, at the family home, not with me. Sadly, I've been too worried about damaging it (food, in transit, etc) to cart it off and wear it in different places. The shoes are a plain black color and it was my intention to wear them as my daily work shoe for when I'm wearing clothes (dress shirt, dress pants, +/- white coat). I opted for the rubber soles because they would be easier to care for with all the cr*p that could get onto them. The gentleman mentioned that these shoes would also be more forgiving than others when it came to having blood spilled on them (no, he didn't volunteer that information up front, but he did tell me when I asked).


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

imme said:


> The suit is out of state, at the family home, not with me. Sadly, I've been too worried about damaging it (food, in transit, etc) to cart it off and wear it in different places. The shoes are a plain black color and it was my intention to wear them as my daily work shoe for when I'm wearing clothes (dress shirt, dress pants, +/- white coat). I opted for the rubber soles because they would be easier to care for with all the cr*p that could get onto them. The gentleman mentioned that these shoes would also be more forgiving than others when it came to having blood spilled on them (no, he didn't volunteer that information up front, but he did tell me when I asked).


That's quite alarming. Leather, or synthetic shoes containing a porous lining cannot be terminally cleaned (except possibly in a gas autoclave, but I've never thought of that before, nor know if it's even feasible). Any footwear I subject to that kind of treatment stays in the OR locker or is covered with booties on the floors. They would certainly not set foot in my car, no less my home. While there is always some chance of contamination of outside footwear in a hospital setting, all precautions should be taken to minimize those chances. i.e. wearing of shoe coverings when performing proceedures, or utilizing footwear kept in your hospital locker, never to leave the institution except in a red bag. DO NOT willingly subject good shoes to such a risk.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> That's quite alarming. Leather, or synthetic shoes containing a porous lining cannot be terminally cleaned (except possibly in a gas autoclave, but I've never thought of that before, nor know if it's even feasible). Any footwear I subject to that kind of treatment stays in the OR locker or is covered with booties on the floors. They would certainly not set foot in my car, no less my home. While there is always some chance of contamination of outside footwear in a hospital setting, all precautions should be taken to minimize those chances. i.e. wearing of shoe coverings when performing proceedures, or utilizing footwear kept in your hospital locker, never to leave the institution except in a red bag. DO NOT willingly subject good shoes to such a risk.


I always wear booties for procedures...when possible (i.e. if you're inpatient for half the day and have to dress nicely because you have clinic that afternoon and evening and someone's crumping...well, you just don't have time...fortunately, this is definitely not the norm). I hate when blood (and other body fluid) soaks through the booties, but that's a discussion for another time. I'm not planning to wear these in the OR, but some of my clinic patients are...unpredictable.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Then my initial aversion to the rubber soles is unwarranted. If you could find a shoe that's comfortable in a burgundy/oxblood, it would be more veratile than black.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> Then my initial aversion to the rubber soles is unwarranted. If you could find a shoe that's comfortable in a burgundy/oxblood, it would be more veratile than black.


That's an interesting thought - I've almost exclusively worn black "dress shoes" (the exception is one pair of brown shoes I picked up on sale from Aldo's while in university). I do like the look of their Morgan Wingtips in wine brush off leather - in what settings could that shoe be worn? Is there any style or color shoe that could be worn almost daily, but also be at least adequate in a formal setting? Also, do you follow the rule of thumb that the belt and shoes should match? If not, how what could be paired with them? Any tips about belts?


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Sounds like you are doing well so far. AE customer service has been widely known as among the best. 

Now remember, if there is any discomfort at all in the store, don't buy them and if the vamp presses down on the top of your foor, it will never get better. 

It is more to pay for a shoe but they can be resoled a couple times.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

For formal wear only black will do, but those are not formal shoes. For everything else from business suits to sports coats and trousers to casual wear, burgundy works. I'm sure you will find universal agreement on this forum for oxblood with black, grey, navy or brown trousers and suits. It's THE most versatile color, while black is the least . I have the Morgan's in wine on order, until I see them, I don't know how they would go with a suit. They are heavily brouged, and I'm concerned about their finish But I am not buying them for a suit, as I have others for that purpose. From what I can conjecture, suits are something you would wear rarely and not in the legal or banking field, so I would be concerned about casual wear and SC.

Match the belt color to the shoes if you can. Wine/oxblood/burgundy belts are readily available everywhere. If you want to get crazy, AE has belts that match their shoes, but a $25 belt from any Department store will do for starters. I would suggest however making the investment in a full grain leather belt, as cheaper belts peel and fall apart with alarming speed. BB outlets carry 346 belts that the salespersons claim are full grain and are not unreasonably expensive on sale (which is almost always).


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

What qualify as formal shoes? Also, if they fit well, is this a decent price or am I better off waiting trying to get seconds from the shoe bank, some other sale, or buying elsewhere? I am tempted to check out Nordstrom's because it seems like they have a good return policy (though the nearest store is not that nearby), though their in-store selection is more limited.

It looks like Cole Haan and Florsheim shoes are more readily available, but it sounds as though they are not even in the same league as AE.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

If a shoe is my size (9.5) then I can be assured that it will fit comfortably.

I have always considered this fretting about the lasts to be akin to the (notoriously oblique and self-indulgent) tendencies of the audiophile.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Shaver said:


> If a shoe is my size (9.5) then I can be assured that it will fit comfortably.
> 
> I have always considered this fretting about the lasts to be akin to the (notoriously oblique and self-indulgent) tendencies of the audiophile.


Shaver,
You are fortunate to have standard feet. I am envious of the vasst array of shoe possibilities open to you.

Why should fitting shoes to particular feet require less attention to cut and design than fitting clothes to particular bodies? Do you also believe that attention to tailoring is equally misplaced?

Moreover, while I must confess to a degree of audiophilistinism, there are discernible differences in how various moderately high-end stereo components reproduce music.

In a not unrelated vein, I am happy to report that in the course of unpacking from our move to a new house, earlier today I located the missing mates to two orphaned EG captoe oxfords, one black and one brown. They are UK 10 F on EG's 202 last.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Gurdon said:


> Shaver,
> You are fortunate to have standard feet. I am envious of the vasst array of shoe possibilities open to you.
> 
> Why should fitting shoes to particular feet require less attention to cut and design than fitting clothes to particular bodies? Do you also believe that attention to tailoring is equally misplaced?
> ...


Re standard feet - what can I say? I am a very average man.

Perhaps annoyingly, I can also buy clothes OTR with few problems - although this is not to say I won't have trousers and slevees taken up or shortened by as little as half an inch to achieve perfection.

Good news re the found shoes. Why did you pack a pair of shoes seperate to one another, though? Is it shameful of me to admit that I keep my shoes in the original boxes?


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## coase (Apr 29, 2010)

I find it astonishing that Shaver can wear all shoes that are 9.5. I suspect that he not only has average feet but that he buys shoes from a narrow range of manufacturers. I usually wear 12EEEs but often can wear a 13d and occasionally have found 12Ds cut wide that fit in very different brands.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

My feet haven't grown in years so the size has stayed the same for so many years, I have been a size between 10 and 11 1/2 for a couple of years now and if you shopped online even before you got to the department store, you would know what you already want so you don't have to choose in store. It would save you loads of time.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Shaver said:


> Re standard feet - what can I say? I am a very average man.
> 
> Perhaps annoyingly, I can also buy clothes OTR with few problems - although this is not to say I won't have trousers and slevees taken up or shortened by as little as half an inch to achieve perfection.
> 
> Good news re the found shoes. Why did you pack a pair of shoes seperate to one another, though? Is it shameful of me to admit that I keep my shoes in the original boxes?


I was packing somewhat hastily. My shoes were stacked along the side of the bed, more or less in their correct pairs. There are enough of them that four somewhat large packing cartons were required. Toward the end of the process I had to redistribute some shoes in order to accommodate a pair of large mountain boots.

I don't think it is shameful that you keep your shoes in their original boxes. But if the shoes are inside the boxes you can't casually admire them as you pass by. I suppose it may be equally odd that I keep the shoe boxes, mostly filled with shoe bags and the polishing cloths that EG encloses with each pair. Some of the shoe boxes came in handy for packing small objects, cuff link boxes, pocket knives and other stuff that accumulated in the top drawer of my dresser.

I keep a few pairs of shoes that call for a bit of extra care in their bags; EG correspondents, Cleverley custom made, EG opera pumps. It is a hardship, though, as I would have to take them out of their bags in order to look at them. And that would be a bit over the top if done with any frequency.

I am envious of your ease in fitting shoes and clothes.

Based upon your posts one would not imagine you to be average.

Cheers,
Gurdon


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Sorry to digress, but are the Black Hills for ~$200 worth it? I'm going to go try them on tomorrow. But again, comfort walking around for a minute in-store vs "normal" use can be quite different. That's my main concern. But, I'm also hoping to buy some shoes relatively quickly. Hence, my dilemma...


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Be sure to wear your normal socks and always shop for shoes at the end of the day when your feet are swollen.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

imme said:


> Sorry to digress, but are the Black Hills for ~$200 worth it? I'm going to go try them on tomorrow. But again, comfort walking around for a minute in-store vs "normal" use can be quite different. That's my main concern. But, I'm also hoping to buy some shoes relatively quickly. Hence, my dilemma...


If you are near Mall of America, I suggest going to Nordstroms and having them order the shoe for you. I bought my first AE there at full price and had the same concerns as you regarding comfort. The salesman suggested I take the shoe home and wear it as long as needed. If I had any problem, they would take them back for a refund or exchange at any time no questions asked. This takes all the risk out of buying shoes from them. Unless I am getting a sale price from AE I buy all my AE shoes at Nordstroms so there is no risk if they do not perform as I like. AE will take back shoes only if unmarred or defective after wearing. They are having a sale on AE Dec. 26th, you can preorder shoes from AE that they do not stock.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

Orsini said:


> Be sure to wear your normal socks and always shop for shoes at the end of the day when your feet are swollen.


Very good advice and don't be afraid to walk away if the shoes don't meet your needs and comfort.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Orsini said:


> Be sure to wear your normal socks and always shop for shoes at the end of the day when your feet are swollen.


That's how it was when I went earlier this week. Won't be able to do it again for a while.



momsdoc said:


> If you are near Mall of America, I suggest going to Nordstroms and having them order the shoe for you. I bought my first AE there at full price and had the same concerns as you regarding comfort. The salesman suggested I take the shoe home and wear it as long as needed. If I had any problem, they would take them back for a refund or exchange at any time no questions asked. This takes all the risk out of buying shoes from them. Unless I am getting a sale price from AE I buy all my AE shoes at Nordstroms so there is no risk if they do not perform as I like. AE will take back shoes only if unmarred or defective after wearing. They are having a sale on AE Dec. 26th, you can preorder shoes from AE that they do not stock.


That does make a lot of sense, but I will soon be out of town for a while and won't be near any Nordstroms, AE, or the like. Nordstrom's is having a sale on AE shoes Dec 26? That's good to know. I'll be away, so hopefully I can order online. The reason I asked about these shoes in particular is because they are on sale for $195 (I think the line is being discontinued). Regular price is $295. Even on eBay, new ones go for around $270.

ETA: What is the duration of Nordstrom's return policy? I don't see it listed on their website, but remember reading about people returning stuff after using it for months/years (which is silly).


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

If they are what you want and meet the above mentioned requirements - then go for it.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

It's a good price. If you like them buy them. As a Blucher the closing fit is more adjustable than an Oxford. They will last a long time if cared for, and you can always buy an Oxford later (when you can afford another pair) if you decide you need one for a suit (which I bet you will). Remember it's addictive.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

VaBeach said:


> Very good advice and don't be afraid to walk away if the shoes don't meet your needs and comfort.


True. If it doesn't fit in the store then run away! That old SA advice about shoes "breaking in" is horse feathers.


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

Orsini said:


> True. If it doesn't fit in the store then run away! That old SA advice about shoes "breaking in" is horse feathers.


Yeah, I read about people breaking in shoes, but since I switched to primarily buying and wearing AE, they fit comfortably and aren't all that stiff out of the box.

I can recall in the past buying some shoes (and not just low end brands) that didn't feel all that comfortable in store and they rarely ever "broke in."

I suppose our feet vary quite a bit, but I'm an advocate if they don't feel pretty good initially, they likely never will. Others may have a different experience.


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

imme said:


> ETA: What is the duration of Nordstrom's return policy? I don't see it listed on their website, but remember reading about people returning stuff after using it for months/years (which is silly).


Nordstroms has an over-the-top liberal return policy. My boss bought a pair of shoes that felt good in store. But after wearing for a day on a trip to NY, they became so tight he could feel his heart beat in his feet. Even after a days wear, Nordstrom took them back. Many would find that a bit much.

But if you were to buy a pair, wear them around house on carpet to avoid scuffing the soles, I would anticipate no problem on returning them.

Though I've gotten quite confident of my size with buying my Edmonds online, I always pre-wear the shoes in house whenever I'm trying out a new last.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

VaBeach said:


> If they are what you want and meet the above mentioned requirements - then go for it.


and always shop wisely.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

StylinLa said:


> Nordstroms has an over-the-top liberal return policy. My boss bought a pair of shoes that felt good in store. But after wearing for a day on a trip to NY, they became so tight he could feel his heart beat in his feet. Even after a days wear, Nordstrom took them back. Many would find that a bit much.
> 
> The policy is over the top ridiculous. I have been told you could wear-out shoes and they will take them back. I don't know how long you need to keep the receipt, but the salesman told me they would look it up in the computer and not to worry about the length of time. It seems you are not taking advantage of them so don't feel guilty, this is their business model. Obviously it works for them as I haven't heard they are in danger of going under.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

StylinLa said:


> Yeah, I read about people breaking in shoes, but since I switched to primarily buying and wearing AE, they fit comfortably and aren't all that stiff out of the box.
> 
> I can recall in the past buying some shoes (and not just low end brands) that didn't feel all that comfortable in store and they rarely ever "broke in."
> 
> I suppose our feet vary quite a bit, but I'm an advocate if they don't feel pretty good initially, they likely never will. Others may have a different experience.


It's not so much that they won't break in at all -- they will. But if it doesn't fit in the store, that "break in" will not save you.

So, wear your regular socks, buy at the end of the day, and be sure they are comfortable in the store. And if there is any pinching across the vamp that will not improve. Too bad -- I missed out on a nice pair of monks because of that pinch.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

coase said:


> I find it astonishing that Shaver can wear all shoes that are 9.5. I suspect that he not only has average feet but that he buys shoes from a narrow range of manufacturers. I usually wear 12EEEs but often can wear a 13d and occasionally have found 12Ds cut wide that fit in very different brands.


That is a good point - Loake, Cheaney & Barker are my choice of manufacturers.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Shaver said:


> That is a good point - Loake, Cheaney & Barker are my choice of manufacturers.


This is a touch off-topic, but do you find that each manufacturer does a particular style well? I associate Loake with a fairly wide range of styles, but when I think of Cheaney, I think of substantial brogues. Am I being unfair? I don't really have _an_y preconceptions about Barker (other than Barker Black, which is 60% cool and 40% mall goth).


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Does anyone know what size shoe they are? If you do then you don't have to shop for a long time, when they have the size you want online then going into the store will make it easier for you to shop. It saves you time and the energy.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

Howard said:


> Does anyone know what size shoe they are? If you do then you don't have to shop for a long time, when they have the size you want online then going into the store will make it easier for you to shop. It saves you time and the energy.


But for those just starting out, the myriad of lasts will make your head swim, not to mention the sizing issues.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

VaBeach said:


> But for those just starting out, the myriad of lasts will make your head swim, not to mention the sizing issues.


Agreed!

So, I just got back from Nordstroms (which one of the sales guys there told me was the largest AE distributor in the state?) and they did not have a single pair of AE shoes in size 7E (in any color)! The sales guy was (obviously) super nice and helpful and very apologetic about not having any of the shoes I was interested in in my size. He had me try on what they had (7D, 7EE, 7.5D, 7.5EE, etc) and we established what I already knew - 7E was probably my best size. He'll try to order a bunch of different AE shoes in my size so that I can try them on.

Oh, and I had emailed the AE shoebank about availability at the beginning of last week and they replied this morning (a Sunday!). It's a pretty big list! Many of the shoes aren't current styles, so I couldn't try them on, but I am really curious to see how the Park Avenue fits, since I've heard so many good things about them. If they're comfortable, I may splurge and get a Park Avenue from Nordstroms; if they work out and if there's another style that is also comfortable, I may order seconds from the shoebank. I feel bad that I didn't get a chance to go back to the AE store to try on the shoe they ordered and have been holding for me, but they did mention that they have people that have them hold onto shoes for them for weeks and months (though, I don't want to be one of those people)!

I suppose it would be good to learn about shoe care and how to weatherproof and polish (and what to use to do both). The sales guy mentioned that they use Skidmore's leather cream on their shoes. Is that sufficient? If not, what do you all recommend?


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

imme said:


> Agreed!
> 
> So, I just got back from Nordstroms (which one of the sales guys there told me was the largest AE distributor in the state?) and they did not have a single pair of AE shoes in size 7E (in any color)! The sales guy was (obviously) super nice and helpful and very apologetic about not having any of the shoes I was interested in in my size. He had me try on what they had (7D, 7EE, 7.5D, 7.5EE, etc) and we established what I already knew - 7E was probably my best size. He'll try to order a bunch of different AE shoes in my size so that I can try them on.
> 
> ...


Yeah, i warned you about the E width thing. I got lucky and found a pair at Nordstroms here. After I established the E width would work for me, it's been all mail order from Edmonds since. It usually takes about 3 weeks since I am guessing they make them once I order them.

That's nice and very Nordstrom-like if the guy will get a few in for you to try. The Shoe Bank has a surprisingly large selection of E widths in my size.


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## mcfrankshc (Dec 8, 2013)

I get custom insoles to make sure things fit the way I want.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> This is a touch off-topic, but do you find that each manufacturer does a particular style well? I associate Loake with a fairly wide range of styles, but when I think of Cheaney, I think of substantial brogues. Am I being unfair? I don't really have _an_y preconceptions about Barker (other than Barker Black, which is 60% cool and 40% mall goth).


Not really, the English manufacturers know, from one to the other, what will sell. It's much of a muchness.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

StylinLa said:


> Yeah, i warned you about the E width thing. I got lucky and found a pair at Nordstroms here. After I established the E width would work for me, it's been all mail order from Edmonds since. It usually takes about 3 weeks since I am guessing they make them once I order them.
> 
> That's nice and very Nordstrom-like if the guy will get a few in for you to try. The Shoe Bank has a surprisingly large selection of E widths in my size.


Yeah, but they're all pretty decently expensive shoes, so it doesn't surprise me that he was willing to try to get hold of them for me. The AE shoebank also has a bunch of shoes available in my size. The problem is that many of them are older styles/lines, so I have to just not get them, since I can't try them on in any store.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

imme said:


> Yeah, but they're all pretty decently expensive shoes, so it doesn't surprise me that he was willing to try to get hold of them for me. The AE shoebank also has a bunch of shoes available in my size. The problem is that many of them are older styles/lines, so I have to just not get them, since I can't try them on in any store.


You don't have to try on the particular shoe. If you know your size in the last, they will fit the same regardless of style or year. Just remember that Bluchers and Bals will be different in the same last.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> You don't have to try on the particular shoe. If you know your size in the last, they will fit the same regardless of style or year. Just remember that Bluchers and Bals will be different in the same last.


That is VERY good to know. It also makes sense, but I've never gone by that because of past experiences with varying levels of comfort with different shoes from the same manufacturer.

Fortunately, the sales guy gave me copies of a couple AE catalogs. They provide all the info about each shoe and even have tables of which shoes are from each last .


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

imme said:


> I suppose it would be good to learn about shoe care and how to weatherproof and polish (and what to use to do both). The sales guy mentioned that they use Skidmore's leather cream on their shoes. Is that sufficient? If not, what do you all recommend?


Shoe care has been the subject of several threads. A search of the archives should yield more information than you need. The basic topics are shoe trees, type/brand of polish and various approaches to shoe cleaning, rejuvination, and polishing.

My own biases: always keep shoe trees in your shoes when they are not occupied by feet, use cream polish, either Meltonian or Saphire, depending on color and degree of opacity you want for a particular pair of shoes. Many people here prefer paste wax, such as Kiwi. Also some use Allen Edmunds's brand of shoe cream. I am tempted to provoke a heated discussion at this juncture by repeating comments I made on an earlier post, but suffice it to say that many hold very strong opinions on shoe care and polishing.

At some point, sooner rather than later, you may wish to look into various brands of English shoes, Churches, Loake, Edward Green, to name just three. IMHO their styling and styles are generally sharper looking, smart, as one English shoe maker says, than AE or Alden, which I feel are not as good looking as English shoes.

Good luck in your shoe quest.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Gurdon said:


> Shoe care has been the subject of several threads. A search of the archives should yield more information than you need. The basic topics are shoe trees, type/brand of polish and various approaches to shoe cleaning, rejuvination, and polishing.
> 
> My own biases: always keep shoe trees in your shoes when they are not occupied by feet, use cream polish, either Meltonian or Saphire, depending on color and degree of opacity you want for a particular pair of shoes. Many people here prefer paste wax, such as Kiwi. Also some use Allen Edmunds's brand of shoe cream. I am tempted to provoke a heated discussion at this juncture by repeating comments I made on an earlier post, but suffice it to say that many hold very strong opinions on shoe care and polishing.
> 
> ...


I'm trying to make a list of exactly what I should buy. So, I started reading up on leather shoe care. As you alluded to, there is a surprisingly large amount of controversy!

As far as I can tell, I will need a soft cloth (or sponge?) for applying polish, polish (cream like Meltonian seems preferred over wax), a soft cloth and horsehair brush for buffing polished shoes (one for each color of polish?), a water and stain protection spray (there is controversy about using mink oil), and possibly shoe bags. There also seems to be controversy about saddle soap and venetian shoe cream, but it seems that it is probably safe to avoid. Am I missing anything obvious or is that it? Also, do you have any specific recommendations for water/stain protection spray?

Another question: is it harmful to use the same treatment/care/materials on non-leather shoes or lower quality leather shoes? For example, the dress shoes I use now (along with the pair of black Florsheim's that I recently rediscovered in my closed) are both black and I'm not sure if they are leather.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> I'm trying to make a list of exactly what I should buy. So, I started reading up on leather shoe care. As you alluded to, there is a surprisingly large amount of controversy!
> 
> As far as I can tell, I will need a soft cloth (or sponge?) for applying polish, polish (cream like Meltonian seems preferred over wax), a soft cloth and horsehair brush for buffing polished shoes (one for each color of polish?), a water and stain protection spray (there is controversy about using mink oil), and possibly shoe bags. There also seems to be controversy about saddle soap and venetian shoe cream, but it seems that it is probably safe to avoid. Am I missing anything obvious or is that it? Also, do you have any specific recommendations for water/stain protection spray?
> 
> Another question: is it harmful to use the same treatment/care/materials on non-leather shoes or lower quality leather shoes? For example, the dress shoes I use now (along with the pair of black Florsheim's that I recently rediscovered in my closed) are both black and I'm not sure if they are leather.


I am bringing this back up since it has been a couple weeks and I would like to hear from you more experienced gents firsthand


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

An example of how it's done, if I may...I'm fortunate enough that there's a Nordstrom Rack near me. Hence by trying on shoes there - specifically AE and Magnanni, both of which are fairly readily available - I could judge what the size will be if I were to order online. At one price level for Magnanni, typically I go half a size down - 10.5 rather than 11. At the next level up, typically 11 fits. When I ordered a pair of monkstraps online from Magnanni's own site, at the higher price level, I ordered the 11s (fortunate, as they were out of the 10.5s). They arrived, I tried them on on my carpet, they fit. It's that simple. If they hadn't? Well, for the minor cost of shipping, it was worth the risk.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

StephenRG said:


> An example of how it's done, if I may...I'm fortunate enough that there's a Nordstrom Rack near me. Hence by trying on shoes there - specifically AE and Magnanni, both of which are fairly readily available - I could judge what the size will be if I were to order online. At one price level for Magnanni, typically I go half a size down - 10.5 rather than 11. At the next level up, typically 11 fits. When I ordered a pair of monkstraps online from Magnanni's own site, at the higher price level, I ordered the 11s (fortunate, as they were out of the 10.5s). They arrived, I tried them on on my carpet, they fit. It's that simple. If they hadn't? Well, for the minor cost of shipping, it was worth the risk.


Interesting . I was also wondering about shoe care in my previous post (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...hey-will-be-comfortable&p=1488506#post1488506) and was hoping people would weigh in based on their knowledge and experience. I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need to buy to care for leather shoes (anticipating a new black pair and a new brown/burgundy pair). In particular, I'm interested in getting a wingtip in brown/burgundy so that I can use it in both casual and semi-formal settings, since I would use those much more than I would a very formal shoe like the park avenue (though I would love to get a pair at some point).


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> I'm trying to make a list of exactly what I should buy. So, I started reading up on leather shoe care. As you alluded to, there is a surprisingly large amount of controversy!
> 
> As far as I can tell, I will need a soft cloth (or sponge?) for applying polish, polish (cream like Meltonian seems preferred over wax), a soft cloth and horsehair brush for buffing polished shoes (one for each color of polish?), a water and stain protection spray (there is controversy about using mink oil), and possibly shoe bags. There also seems to be controversy about saddle soap and venetian shoe cream, but it seems that it is probably safe to avoid. Am I missing anything obvious or is that it? Also, do you have any specific recommendations for water/stain protection spray?
> 
> Another question: is it harmful to use the same treatment/care/materials on non-leather shoes or lower quality leather shoes? For example, the dress shoes I use now (along with the pair of black Florsheim's that I recently rediscovered in my closed) are both black and I'm not sure if they are leather.


So far, all I've bought is black Meltonian shoe cream. I wasn't really sure about the rest of the stuff and if I should get a kit or buy things separately. What brushes, cloths, cleaning stuff, waterproofing/weatherproofing stuff, and other creams do I need? I'd like to start practicing on my current Rockports (I think they're leather) so that I have an idea of what to do when I buy a really nice pair of dress shoes (hopefully soon).


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> So far, all I've bought is black Meltonian shoe cream. I wasn't really sure about the rest of the stuff and if I should get a kit or buy things separately. What brushes, cloths, cleaning stuff, waterproofing/weatherproofing stuff, and other creams do I need? I'd like to start practicing on my current Rockports (I think they're leather) so that I have an idea of what to do when I buy a really nice pair of dress shoes (hopefully soon).


Bumping this because I really want to buy the stuff I need in order to start taking care of the shoes I currently have. I have so far bought a jar of black Meltonian shoe cream. What brushes/cloths do I need? A round polish brush and a rectangular shine brush? Does the brand matter? Is Kiwi good enough? Saddle soap seems controversial.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

imme said:


> Bumping this because I really want to buy the stuff I need in order to start taking care of the shoes I currently have. I have so far bought a jar of black Meltonian shoe cream. What brushes/cloths do I need? A round polish brush and a rectangular shine brush? Does the brand matter? Is Kiwi good enough? Saddle soap seems controversial.


Shaver, I believe, has posted an excellent discussion of shoe care. The following will at least get you started.

I suggest: (1) Meltonian cream in a color you like that is close to the color of the shoes on which you intend to use it, (2) a rectangular brush for brushing off dust, and for vigorously brushing the shoes after the cream polish has dried, (3) a small brush that you can find for sale at cobblers' stores for applying polish to the crevices, such as the juncture of upprt and sole, and seams of shoes, (4) a strip of soft cloth, such as tee shirt or bed sheet, wound around your index and middle fingers to apply the Meltonian polish to the shoes in question, (5) a soft polishing cloth of the sort sometimes found in shoe boxes containing new shoes. An old cotton tee shirt or rag from a flannel (sp?) or moleskin shirt.

I suggest that you get separate brushes for black shoes, medium to dark brown shoes, and tan and very light brown shoes.

I grew up using Kiwi wax. I do not like it. Others do. I have tried and do not like AE's shoe cream. Others do.

Saphir cream is qute nice, but tends to obscure the subtle varigation of leather as it acquires character over time. I sometimes use it. Saphir renovator, spelled differently because it is French, is quite good. I use it.

I suggest that you not use water proofing silicon sprays and heavy boot sealing oils and waxes on dress shoes.

Wipe off your shoes with a rag to remove dirt and dust. Brush them to get at the remaining dust. Use the little brush to get polish into the places you won't be able to apply it with the cloth. Don't use too much polish. Wind the strip of cloth around the two aforementioned fingers of your most useful hand and SPARINGLY apply cream polish rubbing/massaging it gently into the leather. Let the shoes dry a bit, five or six minutes. Brush them vigorously with the rectangular brush till they shine nicely. Then use the soft cloth to burnish the shine and give it a bit more brightness.

You might profit from getting a couple of shoe shines from really experienced shoe shine experts. I have learned a lot watching someone who is good at it polish my shoes. If you do this leave a good tip.

I hope this helps.

Regards,Gurdon


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Wow, thank you, Gurdon! That was exactly the kind of experience-based recommendation I was hoping to get. 

Does the type of brush hair matter? It seems like all the small round polish brushes and rectangular shine brushes are made of horse hair. Does the brand make any difference (I would assume not, but are there perhaps any brands of brush to avoid?)?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Go to the pharmacy and buy gloves, latex or PVC. Then your fingers won't be stained. It doesn't come off living human leather so easily.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks for the tip, momsdoc .

Great news! The Park Avenue is comfortable, though the salesperson bent/worked the sole and heel pretty well (he made the shoe into a V-shape several times) to get the shoes to be so comfortable. Is that anything to be worried about or to be expected from a new leather shoe? Since I could not get any shoes in my size to be transferred in-state, I crossed a couple state lines to try on a pair in my size that they had at another location.

I was also wondering about the sole being so slippery. Does that improve with time? Is there anything I can do with it to avoid slipping? Also, what is the difference between "Park Avenue" and "Park Avenue V Tread"? Which is "better"? As of last week, the shoe bank had both of those available in my size. I REALLY want to pull the trigger on a pair of black Park Avenues (especially with the outlet sale going on now!).

The shoe bank also had a pair of "Mcallister V Tread" in merlot (which I also want - beautiful shoe!), but I would not be able to try one on in my size. If the Park Avenue is comfortable, can I anticipate a similar experience with the Mcallister?


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

^^

The v-tread soles are a rubber half sole. You can click onto them here:

https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF270_1_40000000001_-1

I don't wear my nicest shoes in truly bad weather, so I wouldn't feel like I needed that.

The McAllister and the PA are on the same last, and are both balmorals, so the fit should be about the same (though some have noticed slight differences).


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> ^^
> 
> The v-tread soles are a rubber half sole. You can click onto them here:
> 
> ...


Thanks! I was searching around and kept seeing references to the two and comparing which was "better," but couldn't find a simple answer like this. Would it be fair to say that the V-tread soles would presumably be less "slippery" than the full leather soles? When I was walking around in the store, the body of my foot kept slipping and sliding a bit with each step (though, the heel seemed ok). To my recollection, it was a full leather sole, though it looked plasticky. Alternately, is it worth getting the full leather sole and then having a cobbler (after trying to find one) put on a thin rubber sole to cover it? Where I currently live, there is snow (and snow melting crystal substances) on the ground most of the year. Where I will probably be living in a year from now, there is rain most of the year. I recall that leather soles don't like water and so I would need to dry them out after each wearing and find a store that sells rubber overshoes. If I can clarify these things, I would like to call an outlet to order the Park Avenue today  (since the Park Avenue seconds are currently on sale for $200, while the McAllister seconds are still at their regular price of $250).

ETA: I would prefer to save the black Park Avenue shoes for when I am feeling a little dressier than usual, so I am still also in the market for a pair of (less expensive) burgundy/oxblood/merlot-colored wingtips that I would wear on a more regular basis (or perhaps two different pairs that could be alternated). Currently, I wear either a pair of Rockport black split-toe bluchers or a pair of black runners (I know, I know :$). I really want to add a nice rich brownish shoe to wear regularly!


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Leather soles can handle water. I mean, I do a little bit of puddle-dodging when I'm in leather soles, but just wet pavement? I'm fine. The shoes you tried on in store were slippery because they still had the factory finish. Once that's roughed up a bit, there will be more traction. The rubber sole would have more traction out of the box. I'd rather have the rubber half-sole than pay a cobbler to put on a topy. I like my cobbler, but if you have the option to get a factory rubber half sole, that makes more sense.

Buy Bass Weejun loafers for your other brown shoes, if loafers fit you. Make sure you get the ones with the leather sole, in burgundy. They're cheap, and they're supposed to be ($75 is what you should pay). Moccasins are generally pretty cheap. A pair of wingtip shoes cheaper than AEs is generally going to come with some kind of compromise.

Remember not to wear the same shoes two days in a row.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Leather soles can handle water. I mean, I do a little bit of puddle-dodging when I'm in leather soles, but just wet pavement? I'm fine. The shoes you tried on in store were slippery because they still had the factory finish. Once that's roughed up a bit, there will be more traction. The rubber sole would have more traction out of the box. I'd rather have the rubber half-sole than pay a cobbler to put on a topy. I like my cobbler, but if you have the option to get a factory rubber half sole, that makes more sense.
> 
> Buy Bass Weejun loafers for your other brown shoes, if loafers fit you. Make sure you get the ones with the leather sole, in burgundy. They're cheap, and they're supposed to be ($75 is what you should pay). Moccasins are generally pretty cheap. A pair of wingtip shoes cheaper than AEs is generally going to come with some kind of compromise.
> 
> Remember not to wear the same shoes two days in a row.


Thank you . I'm going to give the outlet store a call right now.

Bass Weejuns sound nice, but I've honestly never worn loafers because I have a hard time imagining myself wearing them and walking around in them. I suppose I feel that way because the only (few) people I ever saw wearing them growing up were old people (in hindsight, these were probably people 40+). They look great on most people I see wearing them, but they seem to have "too much" going on for my taste and I don't like the big stitching around the rim. The appear of brown wingtips/laced shoes for me is that I can wear them with jeans if I do go out and they would look good. That said, I should see if I can find a store that sells Bass Weejuns around here and give them a shot .


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Drat, someone beat me to the V-tread soles. There were still three pairs of Park Avenues with the leather soles available, so I bought one.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Penny loafers work as well, or better with jeans than wingtips. I'd say they have less going on than a wingtip, too.

Also, James Dean wears pennies well with his jeans in Rebel Without A Cause.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Penny loafers work as well, or better with jeans than wingtips. I'd say they have less going on than a wingtip, too.
> 
> Also, James Dean wears pennies well with his jeans in Rebel Without A Cause.


Thanks . As far as rubber overshoes go, would Tingley "Trim" overshoes be ok? Or is there another brand/line that you would recommend? I was looking for Tingley "Storm" overshoes, but they only make them for sizes larger than mine.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

imme said:


> Thanks . As far as rubber overshoes go, would Tingley "Trim" overshoes be ok? Or is there another brand/line that you would recommend? I was looking for Tingley "Storm" overshoes, but they only make them for sizes larger than mine.


I don't wear overshoes, sorry. If the weather's really too nasty to wear proper shoes, I'm happy to wear goretex boots.


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## NEMaker (Jan 25, 2013)

imme said:


> Drat, someone beat me to the V-tread soles. There were still three pairs of Park Avenues with the leather soles available, so I bought one.


Dont feel bad if you need to return them for sizing. I'm normally an 11D, but I went back and forth with shoebank 3 times trying to find a Park Ave that fit without the top line bowing out. I eventually gave up, but today I went to a local store and tried on the Strands which are the same last. Ends up I would be probably be 10.5 EE or EEE.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

NEMaker said:


> Dont feel bad if you need to return them for sizing. I'm normally an 11D, but I went back and forth with shoebank 3 times trying to find a Park Ave that fit without the top line bowing out. I eventually gave up, but today I went to a local store and tried on the Strands which are the same last. Ends up I would be probably be 10.5 EE or EEE.


I actually went to another state and tried on the Park Avenue in my size  (I had unsuccessfully been trying since November to get a couple of the stores in town here to get *any* shoe in my size transferred so that I could try it on). It is good to know that the shoe bank would accept returns for sizing (presumably with unmarred soles), though. One thing that I was wondering about was that when I first tried on the shoes, they were quite stiff. But, after the salesperson worked the sole and the leather of the heel, the shoes were comfortable. Is that expected or should I be worried?


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## NEMaker (Jan 25, 2013)

imme said:


> Thanks . As far as rubber overshoes go, would Tingley "Trim" overshoes be ok? Or is there another brand/line that you would recommend? I was looking for Tingley "Storm" overshoes, but they only make them for sizes larger than mine.


SWIMS are usually the overshoe of choice. I cant recall the other big brand, but I read somewhere that people had issues with it taking the color off shoes. I have a pair of SWIMS but only use them when I have to wear dress shoes for really bad weather. Otherwise I'm like Youthful and opt for boots. A little rain isn't a big deal, but for winter I'm concerned with salt eating away at the leather, slushy snow soaking in, and more importantly - possibly falling b/c of ice.


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## NEMaker (Jan 25, 2013)

imme said:


> I actually went to another state and tried on the Park Avenue in my size  (I had unsuccessfully been trying since November to get a couple of the stores in town here to get *any* shoe in my size transferred so that I could try it on). The thing that I was wondering about was that when I tried it on first, it was quite stiff. But, after the salesperson worked the sole and the heel, it was comfortable. Is that expected or should I be worried?


The big thing is how did they feel? If they feel like they fit well, then you're good. The worst thing you can do is to convince yourself that you should fit into either a smaller or larger size. Smaller and your feet will hurt and you wont want to wear that shoe. Larger and you might have slippage, and will definitely start creating weird looking creases. I made the mistake of sticking with a pair of Rutledge that were a hair too snug but I thought would stretch out more and they didn't, so now I reluctantly wear them. In general you will see some give in the leather though, so that's why it's important for you to be in tune on what fits well and what doesn't.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

NEMaker said:


> SWIMS are usually the overshoe of choice. I cant recall the other big brand, but I read somewhere that people had issues with it taking the color off shoes. I have a pair of SWIMS but only use them when I have to wear dress shoes for really bad weather. Otherwise I'm like Youthful and opt for boots. A little rain isn't a big deal, but for winter I'm concerned with salt eating away at the leather, slushy snow soaking in, and more importantly - possibly falling b/c of ice.


I did check out SWIMS, but they seem significantly more expensive and don't seem to cover much of the shoe. If it was raining, wouldn't you want as much of the shoe covered as possible (i.e. Tingley Storm, though they aren't made for my size of shoe, unfortunately) instead of just protecting the part of the shoe (bottom and sides) that would get wet from walking in water?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

NEMaker said:


> The big thing is how did they feel? If they feel like they fit well, then you're good. The worst thing you can do is to convince yourself that you should fit into either a smaller or larger size. Smaller and your feet will hurt and you wont want to wear that shoe. Larger and you might have slippage, and will definitely start creating weird looking creases. I made the mistake of sticking with a pair of Rutledge that were a hair too snug but I thought would stretch out more and they didn't, so now I reluctantly wear them. In general you will see some give in the leather though, so that's why it's important for you to be in tune on what fits well and what doesn't.


After he worked the sole and leather on the heel, the shoe was as comfortable as any other shoe I've worn.


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## NEMaker (Jan 25, 2013)

imme said:


> I did check out SWIMS, but they seem significantly more expensive and don't seem to cover much of the shoe. If it was raining, wouldn't you want as much of the shoe covered as possible (i.e. Tingley Storm, though they aren't made for my size of shoe, unfortunately) instead of just protecting the part of the shoe (bottom and sides) that would get wet from walking in water?


Keep an eye out for sales. I bought my pair online for more than 1/2 off + free shipping. How far are you planning to walk in the rain? SWIMS provide good coverage over most of the shoe, but honestly you should be fine with most galoshes.


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## NEMaker (Jan 25, 2013)

imme said:


> After he worked the sole and leather on the heel, the shoe was as comfortable as any other shoe I've worn.


If it was comfortable, then it sounds like it shouldn't be an issue. I have a pair of Loakes that took almost a month worth of wearing for them to fully break in. Then again they are heavier and thicker shoes than the Park Ave.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Wow, that was fast! The Park Avenues arrived this evening. To make things even sweeter, even though I was told when I placed my order that they had no more V tread Park Avenues in my size, those are exactly what arrived today! (Thanks, Greg!!). I know they're not firsts, but it would have been nice if they had come with the cloth bags and a polish cloth, instead of the plastic bags and tissue paper.

I tried them on and the left shoe is comfy, but the right shoe is a bit more snug than I remember and I'm not sure what to make of it. I didn't do the crazy bendy thing to the sole that the sales guy at the AE store did.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

If someone knows their size of their shoe then you don't have to try them on.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Howard said:


> If someone knows their size of their shoe then you don't have to try them on.


This was my first AE purchase (actually, my first purchase of a dress shoe that has a letter in the size, as well ) and the local stores here had been unable to get any AE shoe in my size transferred over, so I went to another state to try on whatever they had in my size (it turned out to be a Park Avenue). When I got back home, I called the shoe bank and ordered the shoe in that size.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

So...should I be worried that my foot feels snug in the shoe or should I not? I haven't worn the shoes off of the carpet in my place because I wasn't sure. TBH, it feels like both feet are a little snug, but each time I try them on (briefly), I get more used to it. I've also been reading about the break in period with this kind of shoe, where it feels stiff and snug for the first several weeks. (I'm also tempted to get another pair of AE shoes...something more casual in a burgundy...I keep reading about people loving their shoes in walnut, but the color doesn't appeal to me at all...I really like their merlot and burgundy, though).


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

If the vamp fits, and the problem is the toe-box being snug, they should adjust to accommodate your feet. It takes a good half dozen or more wearings for the leather and sole to relax. The salesman seems to have made the sole more malleable with his flexing in the store, that will occur with wear. Out of the box the soles are naturally stiff as boards. 

I know some here dispute the notion of shoes breaking in, but I strongly disagree, if they are comfortable but just snug. RogerP has himself suggested wearing shoes for only part of the day when new if they are snug. I have now broken in most of my AEs and they went from painful after 4 hours of wear to perfectly comfortable all day long. I have cheated with my most recent pairs by using shoe stretching spray and a shoe stretcher on the right shoes which are always tight around my little toe at first. This has made them comfortable all day long from day one, and I now use this on every new shoe I buy, immediately


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> If the vamp fits, and the problem is the toe-box being snug, they should adjust to accommodate your feet. It takes a good half dozen or more wearings for the leather and sole to relax. The salesman seems to have made the sole more malleable with his flexing in the store, that will occur with wear. Out of the box the soles are naturally stiff as boards.
> 
> I know some here dispute the notion of shoes breaking in, but I strongly disagree, if they are comfortable but just snug. RogerP has himself suggested wearing shoes for only part of the day when new if they are snug. I have now broken in most of my AEs and they went from painful after 4 hours of wear to perfectly comfortable all day long. I have cheated with my most recent pairs by using shoe stretching spray and a shoe stretcher on the right shoes which are always tight around my little toe at first. This has made them comfortable all day long from day one, and I now use this on every new shoe I buy, immediately


Thank you for clarifying that . How do you determine if the vamp fits? Should the front parts of the vamp (with the eyelets) be able to close completely or close to it? They make a "V" when I tie the laces (see below).


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

imme said:


> Thank you for clarifying that . How do you determine if the vamp fits? Should the front parts of the vamp (with the eyelets) be able to close completely or close to it? They make a "V" when I tie the laces (see below).
> View attachment 10346


If the vamp is too tight, it will pinch or even hurt (god forbid) at the bottom of the lacing where the seam is. There is no room for it to give there. The v in your lacing is a little bit wider than I would expect, but it will close up as you wear them and the shoe stretches. If they were straight now, you would have a problem with them being too loose down the road. Expect about half that v to go away.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> If the vamp is too tight, it will pinch or even hurt (god forbid) at the bottom of the lacing where the seam is. There is no room for it to give there. The v in your lacing is a little bit wider than I would expect, but it will close up as you wear them and the shoe stretches. If they were straight now, you would have a problem with them being too loose down the road. Expect about half that v to go away.


Thanks for the reassurance! The two areas of snugness/squashedness are (1) along the right proximolateral 5th metatarsal and (2) the left 5th toe. It probably is just because it is stiff new leather and will improve once it has broken in. I think I will start wearing these Park Avenues a couple times/week in the beginning until the leather becomes more malleable.

Do you think it would be safe to buy another pair of shoes on the same last in the same size (I am asking in anticipation of a tentative upcoming AE 2 for ~$250 sale on closeouts because I want a nice pair of burgundy shoes for more regular use)?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

That's my problem area. I think it's because the stitching comes together near the 5th MTP joint. I have examined both my feet and do not see an obvious difference between them in this area, so a few mm must be all it takes. If you have a couple of weeks before the sale, wear the PAs you have every other day to make sure. Then if OK get the merlot. If you don't have time and the current ones don't hurt after a half day, I think you'll be safe once they break in so hit the sale.

You can order shoe stretch spray from www.FootFitter.com and have it in a few days. No need to fear. I have used it on tan, walnut, burbon, chili, black merlot and brown without any adverse effect on color or finish of the shoes, from multiple shoe suppliers. I have not tried it on corrected grain.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> That's my problem area. I think it's because the stitching comes together near the 5th MTP joint. I have examined both my feet and do not see an obvious difference between them in this area, so a few mm must be all it takes. If you have a couple of weeks before the sale, wear the PAs you have every other day to make sure. Then if OK get the merlot. If you don't have time and the current ones don't hurt after a half day, I think you'll be safe once they break in so hit the sale.
> 
> You can order shoe stretch spray from www.FootFitter.com and have it in a few days. No need to fear. I have used it on tan, walnut, burbon, chili, black merlot and brown without any adverse effect on color or finish of the shoes, from multiple shoe suppliers. I have not tried it on corrected grain.


That sounds like a good plan . I will wear the PAs every couple days for the next couple weeks and see how they work out. I recently ordered some brushes, a flannel cloth, and some overshoes - I hope they all arrive soon (there's still plenty of snow and water on the ground)!

I actually just bought a set of brushes (shine and dauber) from their eBay site. Their main site has slightly better prices if you qualify for the free shipping; otherwise, their eBay store generally offers free shipping for the same or a slightly higher price. What specific stretcher do you have/recommend () for alleviating the pressure on the left 5th toe and right 5th lateral metatarsal? Also, does each foot need its own shoe stretcher (I would imagine so)?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

So, I wore the PAs for ~4 hours today. I definitely need to get some stretching stuff. My feet *hurt* over both dorsal 5th toes (L>>R; I'll probably be getting a blister on the left, shortly) and both first metatarsophalangeal joints. I don't know if it's because those areas hurt that I was distracted from the snugness along the lateral 5th metatarsal, but that didn't bother me at all today. It was such a relief to change shoes just now. They're good looking shoes, but I really hope this gets better . Would it hurt the shoes if I tried to do the bendy thing to the sole that the AE salesman did on the pair I tried on in-store?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Macy's had a burgundy 7M captor in 7M, 8M, and 8W on clearance, but the 7 was just too narrow in the 5th toe and the 8 was too big. Great price, though - south of $50 before the extra 20% off today.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Does anyone have experience with shoes on the AE cemented 444 last? Specifically, I'm curious about comfort and longevity, since they are presumably not recraftable. Also, how does the fit compare to the welted 5 last of the Park Avenue?

I'm hoping to get some input by tomorrow, since there are a couple pairs of shoes I'm interested in that are on sale in my size, but they're all in the cemented 444 last! I'm specifically looking for a couple shoes that would be alternated for daily use, primarily in a professional setting, but also that could work in a casual setting with jeans.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

imme said:


> So, I wore the PAs for ~4 hours today. I definitely need to get some stretching stuff. My feet *hurt* over both dorsal 5th toes (L>>R; I'll probably be getting a blister on the left, shortly) and both first metatarsophalangeal joints. I don't know if it's because those areas hurt that I was distracted from the snugness along the lateral 5th metatarsal, but that didn't bother me at all today. It was such a relief to change shoes just now. They're good looking shoes, but I really hope this gets better . Would it hurt the shoes if I tried to do the bendy thing to the sole that the AE salesman did on the pair I tried on in-store?


This sounds more serious than just a litlle snugness. You're best bet IMO would be to get the shoe stretcher and the shoe strech solution from foot fitters. Do one shoe at a time. Spray on the solutionin the offending areas and crank open the shoe psreader as to the instructions. Then without removing it repeat the spray in 12 hours and crank it open a couple of more turns, but dont force it. 24hrs. later insert a shoe tree and repeat the process on the other shoe. Then try wearing them, I'm sure it will be significantly better, but the amount of pain and the multiple areas is concerning.

I noticed the web site for AE says they will do whatever they can to satisfy the customer, so before doing the stretching, call them and exolain the situation. They may be nice and offer an exchange for the next width. If that fails you have nothing to lose by trying the stretching.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Yeah, those sound way too small, man. Borderline crippling, even. 


Sent from HAARP using Tapatalk


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> This sounds more serious than just a litlle snugness. You're best bet IMO would be to get the shoe stretcher and the shoe strech solution from foot fitters. Do one shoe at a time. Spray on the solutionin the offending areas and crank open the shoe psreader as to the instructions. Then without removing it repeat the spray in 12 hours and crank it open a couple of more turns, but dont force it. 24hrs. later insert a shoe tree and repeat the process on the other shoe. Then try wearing them, I'm sure it will be significantly better, but the amount of pain and the multiple areas is concerning.
> 
> I noticed the web site for AE says they will do whatever they can to satisfy the customer, so before doing the stretching, call them and exolain the situation. They may be nice and offer an exchange for the next width. If that fails you have nothing to lose by trying the stretching.


Thanks for the tips. I would have contacted AE, but I already wore the shoes to one morning of clinic, so I don't think they would let me exchange. I feel like kicking myself because I even just wore them around walking on the carpet in my place for a couple days and it didn't hurt. It would be awesome if AE did offer to let me size up, though. The guy at the AE store even said the 7E was my size after I tried on the shoe in-store. What do you think would be the best way to contact AE?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Telephone, and explain that you were fitted in an AE store.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> Telephone, and explain that you were fitted in an AE store.


Thanks, I will try to call them tomorrow. I hope the fact that I bought seconds doesn't affect their response. It would be nice if they were also sympathetic to the fact that I had to go to another state to get fitted...

Btw, do you have any experience with the AE cemented 444 last?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Whew, I'm glad I posted here, listened to you guys, and called. Even after I told her I wore them outside, the CSR said she would send me a label for returning the shoes. I think I'll probably still get charged the $10 restock fee, but it's better than being out the full price for shoes I can't wear.

Now, about those shoes built on the cemented 444 last, any experiences or suggestions?  I'm told that this last is roomier all around than the welted 5 (though, I would then worry about slippage in the heel...). There are three in my size that are $100 each in which I'm interested:

New Haven Brown Soft Calf: 

Oxford in Black: 

Lincoln Park in Chili: 

ETA: I called my local AE store and they apparently have a bunch of wider shoes in stock. They also apparently offer free shoe stretching! The lady said they can usually end up stretching the shoe to the next width up. But, I think that I will just go ahead and return the PAs via mail like has already been set up to avoid complicating things.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

So...it turns out that I'm actually a 7.5E, not a 7E. They had a bunch of 7.5Es in store that I tried on - including a Park Avenue! There was a little snugness by the left first metatarsophalangeal joint, but it was MUCH more comfortable than the 7E. Apparently the focal stretching they do for free in-store takes care of that quite well if you don't want to wait for the leather to break in on its own.

After checking out the store, I had my heart set on getting a Morgan in burnished wine (on sale at the retail store for $197)...but all the ones in my size were long gone and it's a closeout. Other shoes on my wanted list include the MacAllister (in burgundy), Strand (walnut - the color never really appealed to me, but I like the shoe and I suppose the color goes with everything), and (obviously) Park Avenue (black). The salesperson was very helpful and patiently took her time fitting me. She also had me try on one of their orthotic shoes because the last is apparently quite similar to that of the cemented 444. Unfortunately, the fit isn't great (loose in the heel, instep, and parts of the toebox, while being snug in other parts of the toebox). So, the shoes I was hoping to get on the cemented 444 last are out. I got a list from the shoebank at the last minute (I was hoping to find a stray Morgan ), but they didn't have anything on my wanted list. I considered getting a Brooks Fifth Avenue, but I wanted the cork footbed, so I didn't pull the trigger.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Glad it worked out with the return. So now you know the right size to get. Chill out and wait for the shoe you want, it will come. You can always pay full price if you get antsy. I got the Morgan in wine on closeout. It came last month with a large piece of dye missing on the tongue. I sent them back and they are going to try and re-craft it, but if not possible, then they will refund me the money as it is no longer available. Just as well, I'm kind of hoping they can't fix it because when it came, I wasn't thrilled by the way the color changes all over it. I did like the fit though.

Well glad I could help. I don't know when I will post again, this was #999. I'll have to be more thoughtful about the next one. I wonder what happens at 1K, does a little cake with candles pop up?


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## NEMaker (Jan 25, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> Well glad I could help. I don't know when I will post again, this was #999. I'll have to be more thoughtful about the next one. I wonder what happens at 1K, does a little cake with candles pop up?


Early congrats on the soon to be 1k, that was a busy ~6 months for you. I end up lurking more than posting, but apparently that trend is changing as of late ..


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> Glad it worked out with the return. So now you know the right size to get. Chill out and wait for the shoe you want, it will come. You can always pay full price if you get antsy. I got the Morgan in wine on closeout. It came last month with a large piece of dye missing on the tongue. I sent them back and they are going to try and re-craft it, but if not possible, then they will refund me the money as it is no longer available. Just as well, I'm kind of hoping they can't fix it because when it came, I wasn't thrilled by the way the color changes all over it. I did like the fit though.
> 
> Well glad I could help. I don't know when I will post again, this was #999. I'll have to be more thoughtful about the next one. I wonder what happens at 1K, does a little cake with candles pop up?


I'll try to patiently wait (though, I really need a pair of nice brown shoes; the only brown shoes I have are a pair of square-toed slip ons I bought years ago ). But, I may be moving out of country come Summer. I know they do international shipping for $40, but paying the shipping fee and duty would add ~$100 to the price. I suppose that I will just keep biding my time, touching base with the shoebank once in a while to check their stock, and hoping that AE has another surprise sale coming up soon. Otherwise, I will probably cave before I move away and pay full price. The salesperson did say that there is a storewide sale of 15% of everything every October.

I won't congratulate you on the 1000th post before you make it, but I'm sure it'll be a good one. Maybe you get a larger discount code for BB when you hit 1000 posts .

The shoebank does currently have the Park Avenue in my size in "grey cloud" (whatever that is), bourbon, and brown, but not in black. They also have the Strand in brown, but I don't think it's a nice brown.


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## NEMaker (Jan 25, 2013)

imme said:


> I'll try to patiently wait (though, I really need a pair of nice brown shoes; the only brown shoes I have are a pair of square-toed slip ons I bought years ago ). But, I may be moving out of country come Summer. I know they do international shipping for $40, but paying the shipping fee and duty would add ~$100 to the price. I suppose that I will just keep biding my time, touching base with the shoebank once in a while to check their stock, and hoping that AE has another surprise sale coming up soon. Otherwise, I will probably cave before I move away and pay full price. The salesperson did say that there is a storewide sale of 15% of everything every October.
> 
> I won't congratulate you on the 1000th post before you make it, but I'm sure it'll be a good one. Maybe you get a larger discount code for BB when you hit 1000 posts .
> 
> The shoebank does currently have the Park Avenue in my size in "grey cloud" (whatever that is), bourbon, and brown, but not in black. They also have the Strand in brown, but I don't think it's a nice brown.


Before you jump the gun, I would try on all of the shoes that you like to get an idea of fit. They can always order in your size at the store, and you have no commitment to buy. Each last is different, and sometimes the same last is still different depending on the materials used. Understanding each lasts characteristics will save you a lot of headache. I think I wrote this earlier, but I returned 3 Park Ave's and gave up because they were tight and I had the topline bowing. Come to find out that in that last (since it is long and narrow) I need to go shorter and wider. So instead of an 11D, I need to wear a 10.5EE or EEE.

Good luck hunting!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> Well glad I could help. I don't know when I will post again, this was #999. I'll have to be more thoughtful about the next one. I wonder what happens at 1K, does a little cake with candles pop up?


early congrats.


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## musicmax (Mar 13, 2012)

imme said:


> I considered getting a Brooks Fifth Avenue, but I wanted the cork footbed, so I didn't pull the trigger.


Don't all welted AEs have a cork footbed? I thought the Brooks models simply _added_ the poron insole above the cork (or more precisely, use a poron insole rather than a standard AE insole).


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

musicmax said:


> Don't all welted AEs have a cork footbed? I thought the Brooks models simply _added_ the poron insole above the cork (or more precisely, use a poron insole rather than a standard AE insole).


You are correct.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

firedancer said:


> You are correct.


What is your source? I keep reading that the BB AE shoes don't have the cork and just want to know once and for all what is correct.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

With the blessing of the AE CSR almost a month back, I returned the PAs ($200) I bought. Today, I received a call from another CSR saying that they would be willing to exchange the pair for my size and that they had one pair in stock! I'm looking forward to them arriving. Of course, I do have a pair of black J&M Meltons ($160) I bought from JAB (and have not worn outside) that greatly resemble the PAs. But, I'm very tempted to keep both pairs. I really should add a burgundy/brown pair to my mix (I have none to speak of), but feel like I should test these two out first to see how they fit. Advice?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Try the PA inside. If the new size fits well, return the J&M since you haven't worn them outside. Put the money toward a Merlot AE now that you know the size that fits you. You don't need 2 black captoe Bals, and the AE is far superior to the J&M. The 5th Ave. appears on webgems at times in merlot. Otherwise check out a merlot Strand. It's a great shoe, and pairs well with suits or casual.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

I returned the J&Ms (after having a medium shoe tree inside, they were more comfortable than the PAs, but had more of a sheen than I wanted in my first formal captoe shoe). I'm still breaking in the PAs (pressure is mainly on the 1st MTP and medial aspect of the 1st MT with a little on the left 5th toe, but nothing is painful, like the smaller size was).

What is there a difference between the AE Strand and the BB Strand? Is it just the poron insole, rubber overlay on the sole, and slightly different ("jigsaw" pattern) heel that the BB shoes have? Are those bad or good? Usually, the Brooks versions of shoes are listed for $199, while the AE-branded seconds of the same shoe are $289. Is there any reason to pay an extra $90 for the standard AE-branded shoes? I am assuming that the BB shoes are also recraftable.

Also, I know that people on many forums seem to love their walnut Strands, but those shoes honestly didn't do much for me when I saw them in person. I don't think I have ever seen the brown Strands in person, but would they look ok for use as a regular shoe (i.e. with grey/blue/black dress pants or jeans)? To give some context, I like the color of the burgundy/merlot McAllisters and burnished wine Morgans.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

imme said:


> Also, I know that people on many forums seem to love their walnut Strands, but those shoes honestly didn't do much for me when I saw them in person. I don't think I have ever seen the brown Strands in person, but would they look ok for use as a regular shoe (i.e. with grey/blue/black dress pants or jeans)? To give some context, I like the color of the burgundy/merlot McAllisters and burnished wine Morgans.


I have the dark brown Strands. I don't wear them with jeans, because I have better shoes for jeans. You can't wear dark brown shoes with black trousers, but you're already too cool for black trousers. I don't own navy pants, either, but they would be alright with navy. They look nice with gray.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I have the dark brown Strands. I don't wear them with jeans, because I have better shoes for jeans. You can't wear dark brown shoes with black trousers, but *you're already too cool for black trousers*. I don't own navy pants, either, but they would be alright with navy. They look nice with gray.


lol at the bit I bolded and thanks for the info. If I don't have better shoes for jeans (what shoes do you wear with jeans?), would the brown Strands work? Thinking about it now, I don't actually have any black pants that fit me, aside from my black suit and an extra pair of plain black wool dress pants (which would be worn with the black PAs and the latter of which is still NWT).

The reason I'm asking about the Brooks Brothers brown Strands is that the shoebank has seconds of those available in my size for $199. While they also have the regular AE brown Strands available, those are $289.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> lol at the bit I bolded and thanks for the info. If I don't have better shoes for jeans (what shoes do you wear with jeans?), would the brown Strands work? Thinking about it now, I don't actually have any black pants that fit me, aside from my black suit and an extra pair of plain black wool dress pants (which would be worn with the black PAs and the latter of which is still NWT).
> 
> The reason I'm asking about the Brooks Brothers brown Strands is that the shoebank has seconds of those available in my size for $199. While they also have the regular AE brown Strands available, those are $289.


Any thoughts?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

As I have gleaned from this site, BB have a poron heel piece added as the only structural difference, I would get the BB Strand, if the AE is a first and you want to save money and don't have a problem with seconds. If they're both seconds than the BB is a no brainer


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> As I have gleaned from this site, BB have a poron heel piece added as the only structural difference, I would get the BB Strand, if the AE is a first and you want to save money and don't have a problem with seconds. If they're both seconds than the BB is a no brainer


Both Strands are seconds and (dark) brown. Any idea if a poron heel piece affects the wear on/life/comfort/recraftability of the shoe?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Nope, but I have the the BB LEB from AE. It feels the same in the foot bed. It should be just as recraftable.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> Nope, but I have the the BB LEB from AE. It feels the same in the foot bed. It should be just as recraftable.


I'm not sure what shoe the LEB is, but I have emailed the shoebank to check what they have in stock and will probably buy the brown BB Strands tomorrow if they are still available, thanks . If anyone else has thoughts (about BB Strands; brown strands; how well they go with jeans; how poron affects comfort, fit, and recraftability of the shoe; or anything else), I would also appreciate hearing them.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

The shoe was a typo, I meant LWB (in pebble tan).


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Looks like they still have the brown BB Strands in my size. Unless someone posts something groundbreaking, I will call to buy them today when I have a chance.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Didn't read the whole thread so may be repeating what others have said.

1. I am a difficult fit, and the nearest AE store is ~90 miles. So I just started ordering and returning by mail. The customer service is unparalleled and return shipping is free (like Zappos). I've gone through almost 20 pair.

2. You are in Minneapolis? That's just a short hop to Milwaukee and from there Port Washington, the AE Shoe Bank ! You could try on shoes to your heart's content, I imagine. If you call ahead they can retrieve from local storage shoes in your size, and preferred styles.

Just a suggestion !

Also, you may be able to get on a tour of the AE factory, if that kind of thing interests you.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

zzdocxx said:


> Didn't read the whole thread so may be repeating what others have said.
> 
> 1. I am a difficult fit, and the nearest AE store is ~90 miles. So I just started ordering and returning by mail. The customer service is unparalleled and return shipping is free (like Zappos). I've gone through almost 20 pair.
> 
> ...


Thanks . I have thought about going to the Port WI location before, but it's a 5+ hour drive each way, which would use up my entire day off for the week (and leave me drained for the following week, since I'm not used to driving so much). (Getting old is not fun!). Also, MN has no sales tax on clothing - if I try on something in store and want to buy it, I don't know if they would let me ship it to avoid paying sales tax.

I thought that while return shipping was free, there was a $10/pair restocking fee?


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

I haven't heard of any restocking fee, unless they are charging me and I just didn't know it.

What I was suggesting actually was a commuter flight to Milwaukee, maybe you could get one cheap if it is far enough in advance. Then well, renting a car vs taxi, I dunno how far it is to the Shoe Bank. If you find shoes you like have them shipped home.

When I visit Wisconsin in May, I'll take a quick day trip up to Minneapolis, reverse of what I am suggesting to you.

Don't remember the cost of the flight, strangely though I think it was more than to fly to NYC from Milwaukee.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

About the fee, give them a call, they are quite helpful.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Brown BB Strands have been ordered


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

:thumbs-up:


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Restocking fee is only for seconds, I believe. 


Sent from beyond HEO using unknown means


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

My brown Strands arrived today and they're PERFECT! Not only are they gorgeous shoes (Strand), but the color is actually a rich burgundy (instead of the BM brown that it appears to be online) AND they fit comfortably out of the box. I haven't had a chance to lace them up, yet, but I'm still in awe! I will be keeping these.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Reuben said:


> Restocking fee is only for seconds, I believe.
> 
> That is correct. I have never been charged. As a matter of fact while awaiting a webgem to be manufactured, I called CS and asked if I could change the size since they were ordered the day before. They said no, to just order another in the correct size and return the first one when it arrived. Seemed like a waste of effort and shipping on their part, but that's how they are set up,.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Congrats, imme !

Happy for you.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Congratulations.

When are you going to order your next pair of shoes?

Also, now that you have successfuly ordered a pair of shoes long distance, you can start researching the style and fit of English shoes.

It's a slippery slope.

Gurdon


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks for the help and good wishes, everyone . I still have the pair of AE PAs I ordered a couple weeks ago (I have them in Tingley overshoes for when I wear them around my apartment on occasion). I'm SO tempted to wear them to the dinner event I have tomorrow night (first time wearing them outside!), but there's a part of me that wonders if I would be better off (fit-wise, since the BB Strands are so comfortable out of the box) with exchanging them for a pair of BB PAs. The two things that make me hesitate are: (1) AE PAs are usually $90 more than the BB PAs and (2) I wouldn't be able to wear PAs tomorrow and this event is probably one of the most appropriate settings in which I would wear them in the next several months. It is also important for me to make/maintain a good impression (sartorial impression included).


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

For AE seconds, if you pay the return shipping there is no restocking fee.

If they pay return shipping its $10 fee per pair, which is fair either way you do it.

IMO


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Is it worth buying AE shoe bags (currently on sale for $8.50)? If so, which is better, "cotton flannel" or "natural cotton flannel"?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> Is it worth buying AE shoe bags (currently on sale for $8.50)? If so, which is better, "cotton flannel" or "natural cotton flannel"?


Thoughts about the shoe bags? Also, I see that the McAllisters (firsts) are on sale for $259. When they have seconds available, they go for $199. Is there any benefit to paying the extra $60 (other than to guarantee I get the color I want - the website says 8 weeks to make and deliver the shoe in Merlot, though the Bourbon is in stock)? I'm still working on breaking in my Strands - I have only worn them once or twice, but I'm hoping to get them to be an every-second-day regular use shoe. They are comfortable for about half a day, before I start feeling the rubbing against my 1st MTP knuckle and 5th toe. My PAs are still in the box with virgin soles; they aren't as comfortable as the Strands out of the box, but I suspect it's because the Strands are BB with the soft insole and I just need to start wearing the PAs outside so that I wear them more regularly. I know that the local AE retail stores will stretch firsts, but does anyone know if they will also stretch seconds? I know some consider it cheating, but I think that focused stretching of both pairs would really speed up the break-in process.

The four AE shoes I had on my list were the McAllister (merlot), Park Avenue (black), Morgan (burnished wine; I believe this shoe was discontinued a couple months ago, but it was beautiful to see in-person!), and the Strand. To date, I have the black PA (seconds) and brown Strand (I bought the BB-branded shoes in brown and really like the color; the Walnut did nothing for me). I was hoping to create a rotation of at least three shoes for daily wear (obviously, saving the PAs for more formal occasions), including mostly non-black shoes; my current "rotation" consists of my black Rockports almost daily with the Strands (or a pair of black "dress" runners with elastic laces lol) worn occasionally.

My buying timeline is such that I want to get the shoes by June, if possible. I have kept an eye out for penny loafers (i.e. Bass Weejuns), but there are no places around that carry them in my size. Most stores don't carry anything below 8 and many will not or cannot order smaller sizes. My feet are wide and picky, so I'm hesitant to buy shoes like penny loafers without trying them on first. Any suggestions?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> Thoughts about the shoe bags? Also, I see that the McAllisters (firsts) are on sale for $259. When they have seconds available, they go for $199. Is there any benefit to paying the extra $60 (other than to guarantee I get the color I want - the website says 8 weeks to make and deliver the shoe in Merlot, though the Bourbon is in stock)? I'm still working on breaking in my Strands - I have only worn them once or twice, but I'm hoping to get them to be an every-second-day regular use shoe. They are comfortable for about half a day, before I start feeling the rubbing against my 1st MTP knuckle and 5th toe. My PAs are still in the box with virgin soles; they aren't as comfortable as the Strands out of the box, but I suspect it's because the Strands are BB with the soft insole and I just need to start wearing the PAs outside so that I wear them more regularly. I know that the local AE retail stores will stretch firsts, but does anyone know if they will also stretch seconds? I know some consider it cheating, but I think that focused stretching of both pairs would really speed up the break-in process.
> 
> The four AE shoes I had on my list were the McAllister (merlot), Park Avenue (black), Morgan (burnished wine; I believe this shoe was discontinued a couple months ago, but it was beautiful to see in-person!), and the Strand. To date, I have the black PA (seconds) and brown Strand (I bought the BB-branded shoes in brown and really like the color; the Walnut did nothing for me). I was hoping to create a rotation of at least three shoes for daily wear (obviously, saving the PAs for more formal occasions), including mostly non-black shoes; my current "rotation" consists of my black Rockports almost daily with the Strands (or a pair of black "dress" runners with elastic laces lol) worn occasionally.
> 
> My buying timeline is such that I want to get the shoes by June, if possible. I have kept an eye out for penny loafers (i.e. Bass Weejuns), but there are no places around that carry them in my size. Most stores don't carry anything below 8 and many will not or cannot order smaller sizes. My feet are wide and picky, so I'm hesitant to buy shoes like penny loafers without trying them on first. Any suggestions?


Also, are the walnut McAllisters the same shade as the walnut Strands? There is a pair of McAllister seconds in my size, but they are walnut. The walnut shade of the Strand does not instill in me the same feeling it apparently installs in most guys - most people seem to be in love with it, but it just looks bland to me. I prefer richer deep burgundy/mahogany shades.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

I was always enamored of the Walnut color shoe, however I think I have learned here that the lightness of the color puts some limits on its use. With the "general" rule that shoes should be darker than the pants, what it is worn with tends to put it more on the casual side.

For me this is one of those situations where what I like on the rack or on the shelf, doens't always look the best on me, and vice-versa.

(Disclaimer -- I am not an expert!)


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## partyof6 (Feb 24, 2014)

imme said:


> Also, are the walnut McAllisters the same shade as the walnut Strands? There is a pair of McAllister seconds in my size, but they are walnut. The walnut shade of the Strand does not instill in me the same feeling it apparently installs in most guys - most people seem to be in love with it, but it just looks bland to me. I prefer richer deep burgundy/mahogany shades.


Yes. Walnut is the same on Strand and McAllisters. Due to its wingtip design, the latter has more broguing and may appear slightly darker. It will not look like the burgundy/mahogany you prefer, however. Check out the Merlot or Bourbon to get those shades.


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## espressocycle (Apr 14, 2014)

To be honest, trying on only goes so far anyway. I've had plenty of shoes that felt comfy in the store, but hurt after a day on my feet or after a week of wearing in cheap padding.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

espressocycle said:


> To be honest, trying on only goes so far anyway. I've had plenty of shoes that felt comfy in the store, but hurt after a day on my feet or after a week of wearing in cheap padding.


You can try wearing better insoles for your feet.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

So...I slipped again. I went to the mall to check out the new Allen Edmonds store and try out some shoes...ended up passing by a Cole Haan store and buying 3 pairs of shoes and a belt :$. All final sale. All penny loafers, though, which are something I have been looking for for quite some time now. I purchased two leather-bottom penny loafers (Hudson; one black, one dark brown) and one pair of rubber-bottom penny loafers (Tucker; dark brown; the only reason I got this is because I can't really wear leather-soled shoes in the rain). I also bought a black braided belt, which brought the total to just above $200.

I'm still thinking about those AE Mcallisters in bourbon as my final shoe. But, the shoebank only has a second in walnut for $200, while the first is on sale (including bourbon) for another couple days for $260. Should I wait or should I just buy a first for $260?

On a separate note, I received my first ever shoe compliment, today. It was from a guy, though  (and he was wearing what looked like a pair of construction boots near the end of their life). I was wearing brown BB Strands.


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## Stubbly (Jul 26, 2013)

imme said:


> I'm still thinking about those AE Mcallisters in bourbon as my final shoe. But, the shoebank only has a second in walnut for $200, while the first is on sale (including bourbon) for another couple days for $260. Should I wait or should I just buy a first for $260?


You deserve first quality shoes. If you can afford the $260, go for it!

I would have purchased less from Cole Haan, and put those dollars towards the Mcallisters in bourbon.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Stubbly said:


> You deserve first quality shoes. If you can afford the $260, go for it!
> 
> I would have purchased less from Cole Haan, and put those dollars towards the Mcallisters in bourbon.


I don't know about "deserve," but I definitely "want!"


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## Stubbly (Jul 26, 2013)

imme said:


> I don't know about "deserve," but I definitely "want!"


Why would you not deserve first quality shoes?


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

When Cole Haan starts making shoes in the USA, Italy and the UK again, that is when I will set foot in a Cole Haan store.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Hmmm, I'm still on the fence about $259 for the McAllisters. Does anyone know if AE will be having any significant sales in May or June? If not, I would plan to go ahead and make the purchase. A pair of McAllisters will probably be my last shoe purchase for a while (at least a couple years), unless something significant changes.

By the way, do the AE retail stores stretch seconds, also? I was in one of their new retail stores, but forgot to ask. Also, are they able to do focused stretching at specific pressure points? It sounds like the turnaround time for getting a pair of shoes stretched here is at least a week.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> Hmmm, I'm still on the fence about $259 for the McAllisters. Does anyone know if AE will be having any significant sales in May or June? If not, I would plan to go ahead and make the purchase. A pair of McAllisters will probably be my last shoe purchase for a while (at least a couple years), unless something significant changes.
> 
> By the way, do the AE retail stores stretch seconds, also? I was in one of their new retail stores, but forgot to ask. Also, are they able to do focused stretching at specific pressure points? It sounds like the turnaround time for getting a pair of shoes stretched here is at least a week.


Does anyone know?


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

All things considered, you might consider a pair of English shoes. Perhaps one of our forum colleagues familiar with AE fit and that of the various English rands could help.

This recently bumped thread gives an example of successful long distance English shoe buying:
<https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?81885-Church%92s-Grifton-Review-%96-Pleasant-Surprise/page2>

Regards,
Gurdon


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Gurdon said:


> All things considered, you might consider a pair of English shoes. Perhaps one of our forum colleagues familiar with AE fit and that of the various English rands could help.
> 
> Regards,
> Gurdon


That's a good thought, though I've always had a difficult time finding comfortable shoes. Can anyone recommend a reasonably-priced, good quality, English brand with comfortable shoes? . I may end up just buying the McAllisters (at the very least, if another better option crops up in the next week, I can return them for just the $10 restock fee).


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

On a separate note, someone in my city has a pair of new brown suede Strands listed on eBay. They have Dainite soles, though. I always thought that suede could not be worn in the rain, but some recent reading tells me otherwise. If the seller was willing to lower the price down to that of a pair of seconds (~$200), would it be worth it to add a pair of suede shoes to my rotation? Or, would it still not be worth it to buy them from a non-retail source?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

If you don't already have suede, then you need them.:devil:


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

momsdoc said:


> If you don't already have suede, then you need them.:devil:


LOL thanks. The seller seems friendly. I'll see if he will lower the price (perhaps we could meet in person and just do the sale offline - I hope that saving on eBay seller fees (10%) + PayPal fees (3%) would be motivating).


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## musicmax (Mar 13, 2012)

imme said:


> On a separate note, someone in my city has a pair of new brown suede Strands listed on eBay. They have Dainite soles, though. I always thought that *suede could not be worn in the rain*, but some recent reading tells me otherwise. If the seller was willing to lower the price down to that of a pair of seconds (~$200), would it be worth it to add a pair of suede shoes to my rotation? Or, would it still not be worth it to buy them from a non-retail source?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

I will be picking up the suede shoes from the seller today (I think a deal like $200 cash for new AE firsts in my size warrants the drive ). I'll also check out a new cotton pique suit he has in my size (also discounted quite a bit from retail sale prices), but I'm not sure if I'll get the suit (I'm not sure how cotton pique looks on a suit) .

What brushes or other accessories will I need to take care of (my soon to be) new suede shoes? What is your guys' suede shoe care regimen and what particular products do you recommend for waterproofing (and how often)?


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

My waterproofing regimen is simple. I don't wear suede shoes if there is the slightest chance of rain.

Cleaning is simple, use a suede brush, and make sure no dirt ever gets on them.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

Turns out the suede Strands were a width smaller than I usually wear, but they were as comfortable as my current Strands, so I bought them. (I also bought the cotton suit :$)

Is Meltonian Water & Stain Protector good for waterproofing or would Atsko Silicone Water-Guard or Sno-Seal be better? I'm also trying to decide what brush to get. Is the AE combo brush (https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF583_1_40000000001_-1_) good or is there a better brush?


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> Turns out the suede Strands were a width smaller than I usually wear, but they were as comfortable as my current Strands, so I bought them. (I also bought the cotton suit :$)
> 
> *Is Meltonian Water & Stain Protector good for waterproofing or would Atsko Silicone Water-Guard or Sno-Seal be better? I'm also trying to decide what brush to get. Is the AE combo brush (https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF583_1_40000000001_-1_) good or is there a better brush?*


Same question as above (bolded). Also, the local AE store exchanged the pair for a pair of 7E for me. When I try them on, I can tighten the laces completely (both sides of the vamp touching all the way up), but my heel is not held snugly in place like with my other AE shoes (it can move up and down less than 1cm, but definitely does not come out of the shoe). Is that ok? No part of the shoe feels tight - it's almost like wearing a pair of relaxed runners.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

imme said:


> Same question as above (bolded). Also, the local AE store exchanged the pair for a pair of 7E for me. When I try them on, I can tighten the laces completely (both sides of the vamp touching all the way up), but my heel is not held snugly in place like with my other AE shoes (it can move up and down less than 1cm, but definitely does not come out of the shoe). Is that ok? No part of the shoe feels tight - it's almost like wearing a pair of relaxed runners.


Anyone?


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## sleepyinsanfran (Oct 24, 2013)

I've heard people say that they have found new shoes to have heel slippage which goes away once broken in. But in my experience (based on an expensive alden-sized mistake, among others!) shoes that have heel slippage are typically not just wide at the heel, but slightly roomier overall, allowing your feet to fit further inside the toebox and leaving some small extra space at the heel lengthwise (1/8 to 1/16 inch even). imo these will never really get snug at the heel. - the slight slippage gets progressively painful once your feet sweat during the day... so I wouldn't recommend a 7E if you get heel slippage, and wait for the 7D if that's a better fit. Although you can try wearing them with fat socks and see if you get heel slippage still, perhaps.

Btw I'm visiting minneapolis a few weeks from now (will be my first summer/spring visit ever - I've only had to travel to MSP in winters so far  ) Super excited about it.



imme said:


> Same question as above (bolded). Also, the local AE store exchanged the pair for a pair of 7E for me. When I try them on, I can tighten the laces completely (both sides of the vamp touching all the way up), but my heel is not held snugly in place like with my other AE shoes (it can move up and down less than 1cm, but definitely does not come out of the shoe). Is that ok? No part of the shoe feels tight - it's almost like wearing a pair of relaxed runners.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

sleepyinsanfran said:


> I've heard people say that they have found new shoes to have heel slippage which goes away once broken in. But in my experience (based on an expensive alden-sized mistake, among others!) shoes that have heel slippage are typically not just wide at the heel, but slightly roomier overall, allowing your feet to fit further inside the toebox and leaving some small extra space at the heel lengthwise (1/8 to 1/16 inch even). imo these will never really get snug at the heel. - the slight slippage gets progressively painful once your feet sweat during the day... so I wouldn't recommend a 7E if you get heel slippage, and wait for the 7D if that's a better fit. Although you can try wearing them with fat socks and see if you get heel slippage still, perhaps.
> 
> Btw I'm visiting minneapolis a few weeks from now (will be my first summer/spring visit ever - I've only had to travel to MSP in winters so far  ) Super excited about it.


Hmmm, I think I will see if they will let me swap them back for the 7.5D I had initially (not sure why I wrote size 7 before). Trying it on again now, the E isn't as snug as I would like. Thanks!

Also, Is Meltonian Water & Stain Protector good for waterproofing or would Atsko Silicone Water-Guard or Sno-Seal be better? I'm also trying to decide what brush to get. Is the AE combo brush (https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline...0000000001_-1_) good or is there a better brush?​

When you come for your visit, I hope it doesn't snow! Also, remember that there is no sales tax on clothing (and shoe) purchases! Conveniently, they also recently opened up a new AE retail store that within walking distance of a mall that is close to a light rail station (you can catch the light rail directly from the airport). The BB 30% off corporate sale is also coming up May 21 and that store is downtown.


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

momsdoc said:


> My waterproofing regimen is simple. I don't wear suede shoes if there is the slightest chance of rain.
> 
> Cleaning is simple, use a suede brush, and make sure no dirt ever gets on them.


On the other hand, I find that suede shoes dry out very nicely from the rain - better than leather in my opinion. Of course, all my suede shoes are treated and treated often.


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## imme (Sep 22, 2013)

sleepyinsanfran said:


> I've heard people say that they have found new shoes to have heel slippage which goes away once broken in. But in my experience (based on an expensive alden-sized mistake, among others!) shoes that have heel slippage are typically not just wide at the heel, but slightly roomier overall, allowing your feet to fit further inside the toebox and leaving some small extra space at the heel lengthwise (1/8 to 1/16 inch even). imo these will never really get snug at the heel. - the slight slippage gets progressively painful once your feet sweat during the day... so I wouldn't recommend a 7E if you get heel slippage, and wait for the 7D if that's a better fit. Although you can try wearing them with fat socks and see if you get heel slippage still, perhaps.
> 
> Btw I'm visiting minneapolis a few weeks from now (will be my first summer/spring visit ever - I've only had to travel to MSP in winters so far  ) Super excited about it.


Hmmm, I think I will see if they will let me swap them back for the 7.5D I had initially (not sure why I wrote size 7 before). Trying it on again now, the E isn't as snug as I would like. Thanks!

Also, Is Meltonian Water & Stain Protector good for waterproofing or would Atsko Silicone Water-Guard or Sno-Seal be better? I'm also trying to decide what brush to get. Is the AE combo brush (https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline...0000000001_-1_) good or is there a better brush?​

When you come for your visit, I hope it doesn't snow! Also, remember that there is no sales tax on clothing (and shoe) purchases! Conveniently, they also recently opened up a new AE retail store that within walking distance of a mall that is close to a light rail station (you can catch the light rail directly from the airport). The BB 30% off corporate sale is also coming up May 21 and that store is downtown.


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## sleepyinsanfran (Oct 24, 2013)

good luck!

I think there have been extensive discussions on waterproofing suede in the past (you're asking about suede/nubuck, right?), but I rarely encounter snow/rain where I live, so perhaps other forumites can chime in? afaik, in general, silicone sprays rub off easier than petroleum-based protectors, but the latter tend to damage the leather more. 

oh no! No sales tax you say? Might have to sneak out for a trip to AE or BB while the better half is stuck at family events  Seriously though, I am trying to clear out a bunch of shoes (on feebay since the sales forum has been panjo-ed), and any new new purchases have to be made in stealth !


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