# Patagonia vs Orvis vs LL Bean



## WillBarrett (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm a fan of all three brands, and I recognize that Patagonia is usually superior. I'm curious, though, how you might view items like sweater fleece, quilted pullovers, etc.

I know some of you only wear sweaters but for those of you who wear casual outdoor gear, I'm curious for your thoughts.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Ditto...I too am a fan of all three brands, but for different products. Patagonia's Torrent Shell jacket is the most convenient rain slicker that I own. With Orvis it's their Ultimate Khakis and their Shooting Jackets. With LL Bean it's their rubber footed hunting boots and camp shoes. Also, their Alegash Bison hide footwear is handsome on one's feet, surprisingly durable, and modestly priced. I would not want to give up any one of the three as a future source for my outdoor needs.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

I’m a big Patagonia fan....going back probably 20 years.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

It you go back far enough, you need to throw Pendleton and Woolrich into the mix. Current Bean and Orvis offerings can be a bit sketchy. Of the three that you listed, Patagonia is the most consistent brandwise. That being said, the last few non-USA made better sweaters that I have owned felt cheap in comparison to their vintage counterparts.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Much of the current Pategonia shmata is no better than any third-world-sourced dreck from the other mentioned brands. It’s a race to the bottom for all of them.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Don't forget Filson. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

...and then there was/is Bill's Khakis; will they make it? :icon_scratch:


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## Lawschooled (Feb 9, 2018)

I have a few Patagonia items and like them very much. The stand up shorts are my go-to shorts in the summer, and the better sweater 1/4 zip is my favorite piece of casual layering that get's worn almost too often. The torrentshell is also a great value item for casual rain protection.
For technical gear in the mountains or backcountry I'll stick to Arc'teryx, for everything else it's Patagonia.
Another plus of Patagonia is the companys environmental policy, creating as little enviromental impact as possible, using recycling plastic and a very transparent policy were exactly the items are produced and focusing on fair trade and good working conditions, even in asia. Plus they have this worn wear campaign where they repair your gear for free which is awesome, good for the enviroment and your wallet.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

For simply casual wear I don't think there's all that much difference, except for price. You'll probably tire of the article of clothing before you wear it out. Guess it all comes down to what sort of dashing figure you wish to portray. I do think that Orvis is grossly overpriced for clothing, even on sale.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> ...and then there was/is Bill's Khakis; will they make it? :icon_scratch:


Don't get me started on the Pakistani Bill's. Those things are an abomination.


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## WillBarrett (Feb 18, 2012)

Was definitely thinking about items like the quilted synchilla or sweater fleece/better sweater. All three make similar items and it seems like there's not a ton of difference in quality.


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## Charles959 (Nov 22, 2015)

I would like to see Patagonia offer their Torrentshell rain pants in colors other than black and "forge grey", which increase one's odds of getting run over at night, in the rain.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

drlivingston said:


> Don't get me started on the Pakistani Bill's. Those things are an abomination.


What is this business about the "Pakistani Bill's"? The resuscitated Bill's touts the fact that their pants and other products are American-made. I purchased a couple of pairs, and they seemed indistinguishable from the originals. I am aware that shortly after the original Bill's folded, there was some sort of effort to sell foreign-made pants under the Bill's name, but I thought that had folded. Am I mistaken in this?

I might buy a few more pairs of Bill's Original Twills if they offered a few more of the older color options like bourbon, mushroom or olive. As it stands, the only color in the original twills I like is British khaki, and I have plenty of those. Wish they'd also revive the Bullard twill.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

JLibourel said:


> What is this business about the "Pakistani Bill's"?


Most of the Bill's that I find at thrifts are MIUSA models. However, every now and then, there will be an influx of the Paki Bill's to hit discount retailers in the TJMaxx group. Maybe they purchased the old stock in a buyout. While I am not usually very picky when it comes to pants, the Paki Bill's certainly fit different from the domestic models.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

LL Bean: Lined chinos, boots, long underwear, sweatshirts, chamois shirts, flannel shirts, puffy jacket, barn coat.

Orvis: I like their fly floatant better than Gink. Sometimes they have something I want, like odd vests. They size things for the well-fed sportsman. I am going to try their Ultimate Khakis some day.

Patagonia: I never think of Patagonia. I don't know why. I had one of their sling packs (fly-fishing) but didn't like it.


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## chiamdream (Aug 7, 2009)

WillBarrett said:


> Was definitely thinking about items like the quilted synchilla or sweater fleece/better sweater. All three make similar items and it seems like there's not a ton of difference in quality.


I have several sweater fleeces from both Patagonia and LLB, and the Patagonia ones are decidedly more softer and more substantial. Of course, they cost more at full retail, so it all depends what you're looking for. Patagonia gets a lot of credit for the popularization of polyester fleece, so there's a heritage/authenticity argument to be made for them if you care about that. (I admit that I do. I wouldn't buy duck boots from Patagonia.)


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## mendozar (Dec 13, 2005)

Boots from Bean. Better Sweaters and Synchilla from Patagonia. I don't actually own anything from Orvis, but the closest thing would be my Barbour Bedale? Maybe I could get some Battenkill luggage...


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## Evanparker (May 22, 2016)

Overall I think Bean's got some hits in there, but a lot of misses these days too. I definitely love their sweaters. While they still made them, shetlands were a great deal for the money. The non-iron scratchy hair shirt oxfords have got to go. those things are bad news. Bean has some passable inexpensive fishing waders, and a bunch of not really passable rods and reels.

Orvis's current line of clothing is often quite gawdy and way way too elderly-dandy for me. Way too many of their casual shirts are $100+, and then made in china, and have absolutely no distinguishing cloth or qualities to make the price point worth it in any way. They do have those Barbour jackets which are neat i suppose. 

Orvis's fly fishing product lines however, are absolutely out of this world. They are one of the top innovative companies making fly fishing gear these days, and really hit the nail on the head with the fishing equipment they still make. I have a number of top quality USA rods and reels that always pull their weight and thensome. They also have excellent customer service, great repairs, and neat upsell/upgrade options on the rods they can sell you at surprisingly low prices.

Patagonia has a lot of great technical gear, but I guess I don't really have any. My room mate has a bunch, and she hikes in it all year, and it holds up pretty well.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Evanparker said:


> Overall I think Bean's got some hits in there, but a lot of misses these days too. I definitely love their sweaters. While they still made them, shetlands were a great deal for the money. The non-iron scratchy hair shirt oxfords have got to go. those things are bad news. Bean has some passable inexpensive fishing waders, and a bunch of not really passable rods and reels.
> 
> Orvis's current line of clothing is often quite gawdy and way way too elderly-dandy for me. Way too many of their casual shirts are $100+, and then made in china, and have absolutely no distinguishing cloth or qualities to make the price point worth it in any way. They do have those Barbour jackets which are neat i suppose.
> 
> Orvis's fly fishing product lines however, are absolutely out of this world. They are one of the top innovative companies making fly fishing gear these days, and really hit the nail on the head with the fishing equipment they still make. I have a number of top quality USA rods and reels that always pull their weight and thensome. They also have excellent customer service, great repairs, and neat upsell/upgrade options on the rods they can sell you at surprisingly low prices.....


We've found Bean to be decent value in many things, but not all. And decent quality in many things, but not all. The rain slickers are great and really well priced, but they can't seem to figure out how to make a zipper on those that doesn't constantly catch on the material. We have a few that we beat the heck out of - can't complain about how they've held up, but from day one, the zipper-catching thing was annoying.

I don't think the Bean boots are unbelievable value, but we love them anyway (and they are made in the US). We've owned many pairs over several decades and - until the new policy change anyway - Bean has always fixed or sent new ones when there was a legitimate problem (we don't, for example, send in ten-year-old ones that are dying of old age, but we have, over the years, had a few things go awry in the first year or two and Bean was great).

I agree with you on Orvis. Its line of clothing seems uneven, all over the map and some parts of it are old, dowdy or just odd. That said, there are some good pieces (some of the "military inspired" ones seem well done as are some sweaters) but you have to pick and chose.

But the fly fishing line - according to my girlfriend's dad - is outstanding. We've bought him several things from it that he loves and, as you note, the prices are very competitive.


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## bjorn240 (Jan 8, 2008)

I give Patagonia the nod for technical gear - I use their R1 Field 1/4 zip shirt for upland hunting as well as an R1 hoody and a Nano-Air hoody for fly fishing. I also use a Atom sling bag for fly fishing.

The Orvis twill cotton shirts are good. Medium fits like a 16-35, which seems huge for a medium, but happens to be my size. I find their fly fishing stuff to be just ok compared to Fishpond and Simms, but they have some good stuff. But the best Orvis thing I have by far is my Orvis Uplander - a 20 ga Beretta 686 with an English stock and upgraded wood. 

Bean I use for more of the staples - chamois shirt, ragg wool socks, Maine Hunting shoes. I did buy one of their Pa'tridge II strap vests this year, but ended up not using it. I am probably going to send it back and get a Wingworks or Q5 vest.

But all three have useful stuff for hunting and fishing.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

Patagonia:

I like their technical gear, past and present. This includes items like recent Nano Puff, Regulator grid fleece, and Torrentshell jackets as well as formerly state-of-the-art items like their fleece Snap-T's which are more streetwear today but as good as they ever were. I have a pretty large collection of vintage Patagonia.

I tend to avoid their items that are designed from the start as streetwear. I think of Patagonia as a technology company and the engineer in me enjoys collecting and studying their material choices and design decisions. I think they do a very good job with quality control regardless of product origin.

There are design and material tradeoffs that go into making a product lightweight. An Ultralight down jacket from them will not be as durable as a Snap-T. That's not a quality problem. Think about what they designed their product to do prior to purchase.

There's some California beach/surfer DNA that influences their design choices that I get a kick out of. If I need to appear serious and traditional, I'm not going to be wearing Patagonia anyway.

Orvis:

They used to have stores here that I would frequently browse. I got tired of trying things on and finding out that they went nuts with the vanity sizing and even their smallest size in whatever I was looking at was too big. It's now been a few years so maybe things have changed there. I'm 5'10", about 170 lbs., wear a 40R, and have a 32 waist. They had some Barbour things but there are other local stores with a better Barbour selection so that wasn't a draw for me. I don't fish so cannot comment on that gear. I want to like Orvis but they don't like me. 

L.L. Bean:

I like the classic items that I recall from the 80's when I was in school. I don't think I need to run down that list. I collect vintage Bean like I do vintage Patagonia. As far as anything of recent design, I thought their Shetlands from several years ago were good value but I think they're gone now. I liked the pre-non-iron OCBDs. Bean also goes crazy with the oddly-proportioned vanity sizing but not as bad as Orvis.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

Hair color? LOL! Dark brown but greying (reading some of the other trollish threads here isn't helping with that). Oh, I'm a Leo by the way too. 

Seriously, I just found it absurd how often I'd get excited about something and find out that the shoulder seams would be hanging down my arms or the trousers wouldn't stay up despite the labeled size telling me it should fit and it wouldn't even be close. And I couldn't size down to make the item work because the size would be unavailable. Orvis is the only store where I can recall having to walk away regularly for that reason. I'm not small and shouldn't have that problem. I'm not at some extreme of the bell curve. I don't seek out hipster-fit clothes.

By the way, I wear a Medium in everything Patagonia, past and present. Their Medium is designed to fit a 38-40 chest and it all works for me. If something of theirs fits slim or full, it's done for good reason. I don't try to make a Patagonia "Regular" fit garment fit more slim by sizing down nor do I take their "Slim" fit and size up to make it fit more loosely. That would screw up the proportions. I don't wear their slimmer stretchy clothes with my street clothes. I won't wear a Regulator fleece over an OCBD, for example.

Their non-technical streetwear is more influenced by current fashion when it comes to fit so expect less predictability there.

I don't see Orvis and Patagonia as direct competitors.

L.L. Bean sold Patagonia gear in the 80's. I think there are some catalog scans from Katon around here.


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