# The Heritage-Hipster Matrix



## Mazama (May 21, 2009)

An Online WSJ piece today, "Is L.L. Bean Driving the Runway?!" starts:

 "Unbatten the hatches, folks: The Brawny Man is back. He's dressed for the elements, looking as rugged as a lumberjack-and also a tad pleased with himself. Yes, he can hunt, chop trees, mine gold and pull lobsters from frigid waters. But his oil-waxed knapsack of tricks has just grown: He's today's fashion icon"

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10...90393103166572.html?mod=WeekendHeader_Rotator

Based on the photograph's these "Brawny Men" look like some skinny guys trying out for a cast opening with the Village People.

I simply don't get these "designer interpretations of traditional American outdoor and working attire. RL has a $700 ripoff - excuse me, interpretation - of the $250 Filson Cruiser (110) this fall that is made from inferior fabric and not long enough to cover your butt in cold weather. What's the point?

The chart in the article titled "The Heritage-Hipster Matrix" (Our road map to the strange and crazy lovefest between new-school designers and old-school brands.) is amusing.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Useless clothing for useless people.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Agreed. I think it is time to err on the side of dandy, rather than fauxberjack. 

This is why I am not pleased with my 20 year old set of Filson luggage. It is not JUST that its trendy, but it lacks elegance. 

But anyway, I (for one) am feeling a bit hemmed in: one side, that horrible southern frat boy look with bright polo, khakis, flip flops, and horrible sunglasses; on the other, skinny boys with beards with rugged boutique clothing. 

On paper, both could come under the American traditional look. In practice, they are . . . well, you get the point.

I do like that there is more interest in American made clothing, but this hipster movement is marked by a surfeit of smugness and self-parody.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

^^ Just keep wearing what you've been wearing. This too shall pass


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## redmanca (May 29, 2008)

Trip English said:


> Useless clothing for useless people.


Hah! I love how wearing a 3/2 sack allows you to make judgments on people's usefulness.

As if clothes have any connection with morality.

Conor


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Is "useless" a moral term?


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

PeterW said:


> Agreed. I think it is time to err on the side of dandy, rather than fauxberjack.
> 
> This is why I am not pleased with my 20 year old set of Filson luggage. It is not JUST that its trendy, but it lacks elegance.
> 
> ...


Howz about this: we don't err on any side. We dress in a manner that's appropriate to our immediate situation. That means we don't build a treehouse in a 3 piece suit, don't stroll the boulevard in coveralls, or attend the opera in footie pajamas.

My major beef with fashion is that it moves clothing into the abstract. That's fine for an art exhibit, but ridiculous otherwise. I even enjoy runway shows where the garments have truly moved beyond costumes into the absurd, but again, they have their place on the runway.

If I'm walking the dogs through the woods I'm going to be in a macanaw cruiser. If I'm attending a cocktail party here in Greenwich, I'm likely to be in a shawl-collar tuxedo. If I'm at work I'll be in a blazer or a suit. In my workshop I'll be in a chambray shirt and dickies. The garments are contextually appropriate.

(also, I wear a beard because I have a fat-bottomed head and the beard allows me to employ an optical illusion. I'm not letting my inner lumber-jack shine through)


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

Trip English said:


> (also, I wear a beard because I have a fat-bottomed head and the beard allows me to employ an optical illusion. I'm not letting my inner lumber-jack shine through)


I wear a beard because, as a comedian once suggested, I'd like to maintain the illusion that my hair is migrating to my face rather than abandoning me altogether.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Trip English said:


> ... we don't ... attend the opera in footie pajamas.


Strange as it may sound, that is an aspiration of mine.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

redmanca said:


> Hah! I love how wearing a 3/2 sack allows you to make judgments on people's usefulness.
> 
> As if clothes have any connection with morality.
> 
> Conor


Clothes have everything to do with morality! I, for example, wear a 1.75" cuff on my pants to indicate that I'm a remorseless sinner.

The point of that comment is that if you're dressed like a lumberjack in SoHo, you probably have less than a passing acquaintance with trees and their many uses.

As someone who works with, and has a tremendous respect for the building trades, it irritates me that someone can put on "workwear" and approximate, if only visually, the reverence associated with such garments. This is why I call them useless. They are impersonating people with tremendous societal value while having little or none themselves.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Starch said:


> Strange as it may sound, that is an aspiration of mine.


As long as there's grosgrain along the zipper I suppose it would be fine.


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

redmanca said:


> Hah! I love how wearing a 3/2 sack allows you to make judgments on people's usefulness.
> 
> As if clothes have any connection with morality.
> 
> Conor


In my opinion it's not about morality, rather a critique of slaves of fashion adopting a "lifestyle look" that they at best parody by their insistence in wearing those styles with touches such as low rise trousers, "curated" labels and following whatever blogger they worship as their maven.

Call me a curmudgeon, but fashion is cyclical and driven primarily by marketing. The workwear / heritage crowd will move onto something else in a few years while the rest of us keep on doing what we are doing.


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> ^^ Just keep wearing what you've been wearing. This too shall pass


Amen.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Dave Barry did a great (and humorously brutal) article on this fashion once long ago, when it first struck. I wonder how much of that stuff would actually hold up when working outdoors for any length of time, and how much ( $1300 cotton parkas) is actually dangerous.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)




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## mayer (Sep 25, 2010)

Orgetorix,you are so great.i learn much experience.


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## redmanca (May 29, 2008)

Trip English said:


> This is why I call them useless. They are impersonating people with tremendous societal value while having little or none themselves.


So working in the building trades is the only way to contribute to society?

Tell you what, call me tomorrow after I finish teaching High school English and you can tell me how wearing RRL jeans means I am useless and contribute nothing to society.

Conor


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

In reading the article, I must admit being mildly enthused by the mention of Woolrich, Pendleton, etc...all preferred brands from my past...from my past staging a comeback but, this excitement was tempered by the memory of shopping the Woolrich Store located in Woolrich, Pa., just two weeks ago and being unable to find a single item that had been 'made in the USA!' These venerable brands may be staging a comeback but...'it ain't the same!'


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

redmanca said:


> So working in the building trades is the only way to contribute to society?
> 
> Conor


Oh please.

The trend is workwear. That's why I bring up the building trades. If it were lab coats and stethoscopes then a doctor could be irked.


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## Mazama (May 21, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> (my) excitement was tempered by the memory of shopping the Woolrich Store located in Woolrich, Pa., just two weeks ago and being unable to find a single item that had been 'made in the USA!' These venerable brands may be staging a comeback but...'it ain't the same!'


It's not just that Woolrich is made offshore but for a number of years the quality of the wool they use has been absolutely awful (recycled Chinese army blankets?).

Bemidji Woolen Mills still makes a close approximation of the former Woolrich products in their U.S. facility for what passes these days for a reasonable price. Their Stag Jacket is still made in numeric sizes (40,42, 44...) and is made from 18 oz. 85% wool blend versus Woolrich's 11.5 oz. (low quality) 80% wool. Of course you'll pay more, ~$160 v. $115. Bemidji also offers a number of models in heavier 85% and 100% new wool. Good stuff.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

PeterW said:


> But anyway, I (for one) am feeling a bit hemmed in: one side, that horrible southern frat boy look with bright polo, khakis, flip flops, and horrible sunglasses;


And don't forget the Southern Swoop haircut (also known as 'bama Bangs) that goes with the southern frat boy look.

I'm currently working on a Master's degree, and I am absolutely surrounded by these toolbags, all of whom haven't been active in a fraternity for years/decades. The grad school's dress code is business casual, even on weekends, but somehow the flip flops are given a pass.


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## redmanca (May 29, 2008)

Trip English said:


> Oh please.
> 
> The trend is workwear. That's why I bring up the building trades. If it were lab coats and stethoscopes then a doctor could be irked.


OK, but how can you judge someone's usefulness to society based on what they wear? You say builders are useful to society while those who wear those clothes but don't build things are useless. Do you know what they do for a living? What qualifies you to judge their usefulness?

Again, am I (a high school teacher) useless to society because I wear RRL jeans? What possible connection is there between the clothes a person wears and what they contribute to society?

Conor


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

I think you're perhaps being wilfully obtuse.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I have not doubt there are plenty of people who buy into this workwear/heritage trend purely as fashion, but I haven't come across any.


I work in the skilled trades, and am somewhat involved and connected with organizations that promote them. Over the past few years across the board there seems to be a large influx in people interested in learning these skills, of the people I've met, most could be described as hipster/workwear/heritage enthusiast. 

To me they all seem really sincere, uncynical and un-motivated by fads.
If anything they remind me of people here, almost anti-fashion, interested in quality craftsmanship, with an eye to timelessness and longevity.

Granted, the people I've been n contact with aren't the types to be spending $600 on Woolrich X _____, Filson X ____ stuff, or wearing that ridiculous runway stuff shown in the article (though that could be because I'm not in New York).

Again, I feel this is very analogous to trad, there are certainly types who are just in it for the trend, but many who see something more in it and are in it sincerely.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Starch said:


> I think you're perhaps being wilfully obtuse.


There is a lot of that going around!!


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

redmanca said:


> So working in the building trades is the only way to contribute to society?
> 
> Tell you what, call me tomorrow after I finish teaching High school English and you can tell me how wearing RRL jeans means I am useless and contribute nothing to society.
> 
> Conor


Well, you're not a hero nor do you have a particularly difficult job, so...


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## brozek (Sep 24, 2006)

Pentheos said:


> Well, you're not a hero nor do you have a particularly difficult job, so...


 I thought the article was interesting - if three years late - but this thread stopped being interesting about two posts in. If you don't like Yuketen mocs, that's fine - you're _wrong_, but that's another issue - but are we really discussing the relative societal value of plumbers vs. teachers and the authenticity of their wardrobes? That's a ridiculous discussion on so, so many levels.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

brozek said:


> - but are we really discussing the relative societal value of plumbers vs. teachers
> 
> and the authenticity of their wardrobes? That's a ridiculous discussion on so, so many levels.


1) No, a troll tried to take us there but others resisted and Pentheos injected his usual wit!!

2) However, discussing the authenticity (but in this case, in-authentic) of one's wardrobe is completely valid.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I have not doubt there are plenty of people who buy into this workwear/heritage trend purely as fashion, but I haven't come across any.
> 
> I work in the skilled trades, and am somewhat involved and connected with organizations that promote them. Over the past few years across the board there seems to be a large influx in people interested in learning these skills, of the people I've met, most could be described as hipster/workwear/heritage enthusiast.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting post. Trend or not, these type of clothes play on a desire for higher quality, better made items. Stuff from the usual mall stores becomes noticeably more junky and young people are grasping for a good piece of cloth, as much as anything.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

People are drawn toward "authentic", touchable stuff in an abstracted, distracting, arbitrary, and at times de-humanizing day-to-day digital existence. That's what it is, dog.


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## kevinbelt (Dec 2, 2007)

redmanca said:


> So working in the building trades is the only way to contribute to society?
> 
> Tell you what, call me tomorrow after I finish teaching High school English and you can tell me how wearing RRL jeans means I am useless and contribute nothing to society.
> 
> Conor


I hope today's lesson plan involved reading comprehension, because you completely misunderstood (and misrepresented) what Trip said.

________

Personally, I think some of the hipster stuff is ridiculous, just like any other trend. But at least some of the trendies seem to be supporting venerable old brands. The trad world has seen so many companies go out of business over the years due to lack of support, it's hardly fair to object when the wider world begins to support these companies. If this is the price we have to pay to keep LL Bean, or Red Wing, or Barbour, or whoever in business, I think it's ok.

-k


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## pseudonym (Aug 1, 2010)

kevinbelt said:


> Personally, I think some of the hipster stuff is ridiculous, just like any other trend. But at least some of the trendies seem to be supporting venerable old brands. The trad world has seen so many companies go out of business over the years due to lack of support, it's hardly fair to object when the wider world begins to support these companies. If this is the price we have to pay to keep LL Bean, or Red Wing, or Barbour, or whoever in business, I think it's ok.
> 
> -k


I agree wholeheartedly with this. Sure, the 10x markups are ridiculous, but that's the fashion industry. However, I'm also sick of the elitism seen on this forum when it comes to the trends among young men towards the trad/"heritage" look. You're not better than them just because you're more "authentic," just as they aren't better than you because they are more "hip." I find it funny to see the same bitter insularity that I see in the hipster community ("Yeah, I saw them a couple years back. They're alright, I guess") here among grown men.

This isn't all good, but then again, nothing is. Lighten up. Everything will be okay. The trend will pass, and in its wake will be the influx of money, ideas, and vibrancy that we are seeing now. Oh, and the thousands of new customers who, when they decide that they need to start dressing like an adult, remember how much they liked the way they dressed when they were in their twenties.


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## Reptilicus (Dec 14, 2004)

I think it's time to put this all in perspective with a little dose of Zoolander.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mazama said:


> It's not just that Woolrich is made offshore but for a number of years the quality of the wool they use has been absolutely awful (recycled Chinese army blankets?).
> 
> Bemidji Woolen Mills still makes a close approximation of the former Woolrich products in their U.S. facility for what passes these days for a reasonable price. Their Stag Jacket is still made in numeric sizes (40,42, 44...) and is made from 18 oz. 85% wool blend versus Woolrich's 11.5 oz. (low quality) 80% wool. Of course you'll pay more, ~$160 v. $115. Bemidji also offers a number of models in heavier 85% and 100% new wool. Good stuff.


While there is much truth in the words Mazama types regarding the declines in quality, the saddest reality for me remains that the the close to 1000 people who worked at the Woolrich Woolen Mills, with whom I worked when I worked there as a summer and holiday hire back in the 1960's, are all gone. The mill in Woolrich, Pa, is closed and boarded up...the buildings are crumbling and the people are gone.


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> While there is much truth in the words Mazama types regarding the declines in quality, the saddest reality for me remains that the the close to 1000 people who worked at the Woolrich Woolen Mills, with whom I worked when I worked there as a summer and holiday hire back in the 1960's, are all gone. The mill in Woolrich, Pa, is closed and boarded up...the buildings are crumbling and the people are gone.


I used to love Woolrich clothing. The company really changed in the mid '90s and stopped being a manufacturer and became a marketer. Sad.

I still have a shirt-coat my grandfather purchased for me from there while it was still made in Pennsylvania.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Here's an old thread I'd like to revive. Lately in my web browsing I've been reading a lot of hipster/heritage blogs and noted that this is a real phenomenon. And an interesting one: here are a lot of young hipster types (here's an example: https://simplethreads.wordpress.com/(and, oddly, a bunch of Japanese enthusiasts)) getting seriously excited about Filson/Alden/Quoddy/etc. Oddly, as someone who is very much NOT a hipster and who is a) twice the age of the hipsters and b) not particularly interested in the whole rugged/outfitter/Maine aesthetic, I find that I deeply sympathize with the movement and applaud its values: durable, high-value goods made by crafstmen, ideally made in the US. There's an anti-modernist romanticism going on here, which I share, that celebrates values that these goods represent. As fashion trends go, this is a terrific one.


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## St. Charles Ave. (Jan 15, 2011)

> For four years and counting, city-bound American men have been eating like yeoman farmers and dressing like Wild West oil prospectors. Why in the hell is this still happening--and how long can it continue?


From this month's GQ.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

tocqueville said:


> Here's an old thread I'd like to revive. Lately in my web browsing I've been reading a lot of hipster/heritage blogs and noted that this is a real phenomenon. And an interesting one: here are a lot of young hipster types (here's an example: https://simplethreads.wordpress.com/(and, oddly, a bunch of Japanese enthusiasts)) getting seriously excited about Filson/Alden/Quoddy/etc. Oddly, as someone who is very much NOT a hipster and who is a) twice the age of the hipsters and b) not particularly interested in the whole rugged/outfitter/Maine aesthetic, I find that I deeply sympathize with the movement and applaud its values: durable, high-value goods made by crafstmen, ideally made in the US. There's an anti-modernist romanticism going on here, which I share, that celebrates values that these goods represent. As fashion trends go, this is a terrific one.


I don't think I'd call Ryan, the guy that runs the site, a hipster. Perhaps a fan of the current Americana trend. I do think lots more people are getting into quality, and I do firmly believe it will last. The combination of feeling the quality (literally feeling it against your skin, seeing it lasting) and knowing the story behind it (ex: Corter leathers) makes me truly believe this will last for new fans.

Also, what does it mean to eat liek a yeoman farmer? And the last time I saw some NYC blog talk about wearing western boots and overalls, well I never have. I read GQ (missed that line), but don't always get what they're saying.


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