# What sort of coat do you wear over your suit on a cold winter day?



## Peat

I am wondering what gentlemen here wear over their suit or jacket and tie on a cold winter day.

Yestterday I went out looking to buy a traditional long coat or 'top coat'. I expected to purchase a coat that would go past my knees. I wanted a simple, conservative, black overcoat that would be good to wear over a suit or a blazer and grey flannels.

The stores I looked at had no coats of the length that I was thinking about. But this makes sense since most men today drive places, and if dresssed in a suit, would not be outside for all that long. So I settled on a really nice coat that fit my parameters perfectly, except for the length. It was only the length of a typical winter parka. So basically is a long coat or top coat, just not as long as they used to be many years ago.

What do men here wear over suits on a cold, dry winter day? I've always felt that a more everyday parka, while probably warmer and offering more protection, kind of ruins your look. Although if you're quickly changing out of it then I guess its not a big deal.


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## Peat

Oh, I guess I should mention that my new coat is a wool cashmere blend.


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## fishertw

*Winter coat*

Although I've considered buying a dark top coat, I currently have a camel Gloverall duffle coat that is good for really cold days. On warmer winter days, I usually wear a Barbour Border over a sportcoat or suit.
Tom


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## PJC in NoVa

If you'd still like to get a longer coat to go with that car coat, I can attest that this one has worked out well for me.

https://www.josbank.com/IWCatProduc...d=1&Section_Id=2100&pcount=&Product_Id=228877

It's currenlty at $499 but goes down to $347.50 (half off list) at least a few times a season.

Authorities such as Flusser warn that the shorter overcoats can cause the dreaded "looking like you're cut in half" effect, which is why I tend to like mine going below the knee, even if they're a bit more awkward in the car.


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## Palmer_Woodrow

I only wear a long dark topcoat with a suit in winter. It was a Banks purchase from 1992 and still provides good service. For formal occasions I wear my Chesterfield from Brooks in 1994.


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## rojo

I don't understand the current popularity of the three-quarter length or "car coats" that seem to be the fashion these days. I wear a traditional, full-length overcoat.


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## eagle2250

For the application you describe my present options include an HSM charcoal, herringbone weave topcoat that comes slightly below my knees and a Burberry Trench, with a wool winter liner. Early next week my options will expand to include a Gloverall grey, wool duffle coat.


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## rojo

Pardon my asking, but perhaps one of you gentle forum members would be kind enough to explain why so many of you prefer to say "topcoat" instead of "overcoat"?


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## oldschoolprep

*Cold Weather Overcoat Choice Depends*

It really depends on the weather and base attire. When wearing a suit or sportcoat/tie, I prefer a conventional length topcoat. Alternately, I usually don a shorter outer coat when I wear a sport coat and shetland w/o a tie.

On most cold days, I wear my BD BB Camel Polo Coat, a Navy DB Cardinal cashemere topcoat or well worn and loved 1987 J. Press British Warmer.

For cold and rainy days, a circa 1980 DB Burberry Trench I boiught right out of business school witn/without the liner depeding on the temperature and precipitation. It has a battered but cultured look that I really like. I contemplated buying a new one last year, but deferred because it looked too noveau.

On more casual days, its usually my battered Barbour border or a Barbour tweed (can't remember the model) that I bought two years ago.

Regardless of core attire or topcoat choice, Bean mocs or boots are the treads of choice when the weather is wet.


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## bd79cc

My old Balmacaan. The liner's wool, my suit's wool, so that's two woolen layers between me and the cold. That tightly woven water-repellant cotton shell is also windproof. And when the rain and sleet start, I don't get waterlogged.


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## eagle2250

rojo said:


> Pardon my asking, but perhaps one of you gentle forum members would be kind enough to explain why so many of you prefer to say "topcoat" instead of "overcoat"?


Darned if I know! That's just what I have always heard it called in my neck of the woods.


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## Markus

*Topcoat does not equal Overcoat*



rojo said:


> Pardon my asking, but perhaps one of you gentle forum members would be kind enough to explain why so many of you prefer to say "topcoat" instead of "overcoat"?


My understanding has always been that an overcoat is heavier than a topcoat. Topcoats are meant to be worn "on top" of something (like a suit) that is already pretty substantial. True overcoats are pretty hard to find unless you live somewhere where it gets really really cold and people invest in old-fashioned, thick heavy wool overcoats...(that somehow sounds awkward).

My guesstimate is that an overcoat might weigh twice as much as a topcoat.

Oh, btw, I also wear my ancient wool tweed balmaccan over a suit or jacket during the Fall and Winter. Did so last night as a matter of fact, over my Press navy camelhair jacket.

Markus


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## mcarthur

Camel hair double breasted polo coat


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## Falstaff

I've always thought that a "topcoat" is a coat that ends above one's knees, while an "overcoat" ends somewhere around the shins. As always, my posts welcome correction!

I wear a navy cashmere/lambswool singel-breasted towncoat (it comes down to mid-shin length).


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## PJC in NoVa

Just to stir the mix: 

What distinguishes a "greatcoat" from a topcoat from an overcoat?


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## windsor

Topcoats may be a little shorter but not above the knee. The main characteristic is that they are lighter and intended for less severe conditions...not as cold. My rule of thumb for what to wear is based on the formality of the base layer. Suits require either topcoat, overcoat or full length raincoat....with or without liner. Type of fabric and pattern as well as style of coat also comes into play here. A sport coat with odd trousers can be worn with these same options providing the coat is of an informal type. In other words, not a Chesterfield with velvet collar. You could also wear a three quarter length or car coat such as a Barbour or Duffle coat or Parka. These coats are less formal than the first group..topcoats, overcoats. Raincoats with sportcoats are fine too...if its raining or you think it will. My two cents worth. I think a lot of dressing/matching questions come down to assessing the formality/informality of the items and choosing those of similar type to go together.


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## Cool Cal

If it ever starts getting cold I'll wear a full length charcoal topcoat


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## Desk Jockey

I have a Burberry trench. But it's got a liner so I'm okay.


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## Cruiser

I wear a black wool carcoat. I like it because it also looks great for casual wear with jeans and I'm just not a fan of spending a lot of money on clothes. I like anything that can serve multiple purposes. I guess it's the same reason I like tweed jackets. They look great with wool pants and a tie and even better with jeans for casual wear.

Cruiser


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## egadfly

fishertw said:


> Although I've considered buying a dark top coat, I currently have a camel Gloverall duffle coat that is good for really cold days. On warmer winter days, I usually wear a Barbour Border over a sportcoat or suit.


Tom and are on the same page here: Border for commuting in wet weather; Gloverall for cold, dry days. I've also got a Brooks balmacaan -- knee-length, with a zip-out lining -- which I wear when the Barbour would be too casual.

Years ago, I had a beautiful tweed DB overcoat, purchased at the now long-defunct Max Golden & Son (above Sherman Bros). It was a wonderful coat: heavy, long, and rather dashing, or so I thought. I'd love to find a replacement.

Incidentally, I can't understand the current fad for shorter coats, which seems to have spread to other outerwear: a couple of years ago I was looking for a new winter parka, and could scarcely find anything with a back-length of greater than 33 inches. That struck me as rather absurd.

EGF


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## Peat

As for the terms 'overcoat' and 'top coat', I think they are pretty much interchangeable. I don't think one term was ever used for any different variation on men's coats than the other. But I could be wrong on this. "top' as in worn on top of your suit, and 'over' as in worn over your suit mean the same thing. 

I wouldn't mind having the full length coat, but I guess this is just another one of those ways in which the automobile changed everything in the 20th century. Getting in and out of a car, and driving a car, in a long coat is much less comfortable. Now if you are outside for a long time on a cold winter day, then a long coat might be good. But then, people who have to spend a long time outdoors in the cold normally do not wear suits. And they would much rather wear a coat that is practical and allows maximum freedom of movement. Such would be the case with police officers or paramedics. But I think if I had a commute each day where I took the subway and was always standing, then a long coat might do the trick.

Another way that cars changed everything is with hats. Men in the early 20th century wore them all the time. How often to you see a man in a fedora these days? Or even a nice fur hat? Again, I think it has to do with driving. But I guess longer hairstyles probably also had an impact on this too - guys don't want to get 'hat head'.


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## rsmeyer

Cold days-dark grey chesterfield-MTM by Andover Shop.Very cold days-British Warm bespoke from Chipp-late 80's. I take my coats off when I drive-too bulky. Also have a covert cloth topcoat and two raincoats (one lined, one not) for less cold weather.


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## JayJay

rsmeyer said:


> Cold days-dark grey chesterfield-MTM by Andover Shop.Very cold days-British Warm bespoke from Chipp-late 80's. I take my coats off when I drive-too bulky. Also have a covert cloth topcoat and two raincoats (one lined, one not) for less cold weather.


I have a cashmere car coat and a shorter length trench coat but prefer my longer topcoat and trench coat because of the protection they provide in nasty weather. I take my coat off when driving.


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## egadfly

rsmeyer said:


> Cold days-dark grey chesterfield-MTM by Andover Shop.Very cold days-British Warm bespoke from Chipp-late 80's. I take my coats off when I drive-too bulky. Also have a covert cloth topcoat and two raincoats (one lined, one not) for less cold weather.


Sounds like quite a coat wardrobe -- I'd love to see pics of the Andover and Chipp.

Incidentally, I agree about not driving in a coat: most days, I drive no further than the train station (five minutes away), so I put up with the bulk, but on cold days when I have a longer trip, I let the car warm up a bit and drive sans overcoat.

EGF


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## RTW

*difference between topcoats and overcoats*

_From the glossary of one of Flusser's books..._

*Topcoat:* An outercoat made of fabric lighter than that of an overcoat. The maximum weight fabric for the coat used to be 18 ounces per square yard or less.


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## PittDoc

*Opinion on a related item needed*

I wear a cashmere/wool navy "topcoat" over suit and blazer/slacks during the colder months. Loro Piana Storm system cashmere Icer for casual.

What I need is something to wear now, for rain, wind and 40-60 degrees over a suit/blazer. I commute in a car so the 3/4 lengths are sounding good on this thread.

I tried on the full range of Burberry and Aquascutum but being vertically challenged, they all made me look like I was wearing my Dad's overcoat. I'm sized more like an Italian male, so opinions on this Loro Piana are sought (I know it's rather $$):

https://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/...00478cat000488cat5260740cat4210734cat14890731


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## jasonpraxis

Generally over a suit I'll wear a navy single breasted Brooks Storm topcoat. For more formal occasions or evenings, a black wool/cashmere topcoat from Polo.

That said, I rarely have occasion to wear a suit. The Brooks coat works well with a sport jacket, as does the Barbour.


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## TMMKC

I own a very heavy, below-the-knee, wool/cahsmere camel-colored top coat when the temp drops too low. I have been known to wear it with jeans on several occasions too. It covers the legs...which I appreciate when wearing a suit.


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## Northeastern

Sort of cold - knee length charcoal topcoat. 
Wicked cold - Shin length navy blue wool/cashmere blend topcoat.

The "wicked cold" coat is probably twice the weight of the sort of cold coat and has thinsulate. Both are three button affairs that require a snazzy scarf be worn if the wind is really blowing. 

I have no temperature cutoff between sort of and wicked cold, some days you just wake up and know that you need a heavier coat.


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## Rocker

I own four grey Chesterfields and a tan Chesterfield - all with velvet collars, fly closure, full length.

I own a Covert coat for when it's not so cold.

Provided it's cold enough I'll wear the Chesterfields with anything including jeans and a sweater. I think 3/4 coats tend to look bad and rather boxy; much prefer a full length coat. My one exception is a pea coat - which I used to wear in H.S. and college and loved - but that was only with jeans and khakis.

I also don't much like "slash" pockets which seem to predominate; I prefer for them to be flapped.


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## whomewhat

When a California born and raised boy moves to Northern Idaho, coats become very important. When you have advanced arthritis at age 48, along with Reynaud's disease in your hands(turn blue, sores on fingers in cold), well, it becomes critical. I have purchased a coat for just about every contingency since I just cannot tolerate the damned cold weather here, but everything else is great about this place.

4 car or 3/4 length coats: Navy Blue (cashmere/wool blend), Black (cashmere/wool blend), Black (vicuna/cashmere blend), Charcoal (100% wool)

3 overcoats: Navy Blue (100% cashmere), Black (100% cashmere), Black (vicuna/cashmere blend)

1 longcoat: Navy Blue (100% cashmere)

3 gloverall hooded duffle coats: Black, Navy Blue, Beige

This may seem like overkill to some, but I use them all and am still looking for more. I sold my Kiton shearling a while back because it was a little tight fitting and have not been able to replace it since. (The single dumbest sale I have ever made!) I wanted to buy it back afterward, but on top of selling it to me the buyer wanted me to donate money to a charity that was not on my list of charities, which seemed like a crazy request. That is still on my list! Also, an Oxxford guanaco coat would be nice, but they do not come available, especially in my size, that often. Finally, a 100% vicuna, not blended, would also be nice to have. I have found that vicuna, and I imagine guanaco is very similar, are extremely warm and heavy, which is how I like my coats. Unlike some who will not buy or wear anything used, on certain items, coats being one of them, I pretty much only buy used, preferably vintage, and have them re-lined if necessary. Hint, hint to anyone with a used coat (44-46L) fitting the above description!


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## Patrick06790

Northeastern said:


> Sort of cold - knee length charcoal topcoat.
> Wicked cold - Shin length navy blue wool/cashmere blend topcoat.
> 
> The "wicked cold" coat is probably twice the weight of the sort of cold coat and has thinsulate. Both are three button affairs that require a snazzy scarf be worn if the wind is really blowing.
> 
> I have no temperature cutoff between sort of and wicked cold, some days you just wake up and know that you need a heavier coat.


Wicked cold - what we call "Brass Monkey" (as in "Better keep the brass monkeys in tonight, eh?")

I have various things but I keep returning to a lined London Fog trench and an LL Bean waxed coat.


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## Orsini

Overcoat and topcoat are two different things: The warmer overcoat is for the dead of winter when it is freezing cold. The lighter topcoat is for all the rest of the year.


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## hbs midwest

*Winter in the Upper Midwest*

For the dead of winter I pull out my loden jaegermantl--the long hunter's coat with inverted box pleat in back and set-in sleeves.

The loden cloth is practically impervious to wind and the traditional cut of the coat is generous enough to allow for layering--waistcoat, sweater, etc.

Hope I don't need it for a few more weeks. :icon_pale:

hbs


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## Peat

What's really hard (and expensive) is to find an overcoat that is suitable for formal or business situations, but is also really practical and warm for harsh conditions.


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## ilikeyourstyle

I use a black overcoat that comes down just below my knees. I also have a full-length overcoat, but I don't wear that one anymore because it impedes my stride when walking quickly to catch a train. I feel the knee-length coat is a good compromise between warmth and comfort when walking.


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## jeph

Navy Gloverall Duffle coat

jeph


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## ChicagoTrad

I got a Burberry coat a few years ago - which is sort of like a Navy Watch or Great-coat. double breasted, very long, made of incredibly heavy wool fabric. It looks great over a suit but fits the bill on cold Chicago days.


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## septa

I saw a very tradly chap on the train this morning:

P-3 horn rims, a navy suit (probably 2 button darted), white Pinpoint BD, brooks #1 stripe tie, black tassel loafers, and 

a yellow rain slicker. 

Does anyone else do this?


The coat was of the kind I haven't seen since I was about 12. The man was big, 6'3" or 6'4", and talked loudly about youth squash. 

egad--your doppelgänger on the other end of the R5?


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## Orgetorix

On the coldest days (below about 40 degrees) I wear my Press camelhair polo coat.


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## egadfly

septa said:


> I saw a very tradly chap on the train this morning:
> 
> P-3 horn rims, a navy suit (probably 2 button darted), white Pinpoint BD, brooks #1 stripe tie, black tassel loafers, and a yellow rain slicker.
> 
> Does anyone else do this?
> 
> The coat was of the kind I haven't seen since I was about 12. The man was big, 6'3" or 6'4", and talked loudly about youth squash.
> 
> * egad--your doppelgänger on the other end of the R5?*


Meant to respond to this earlier, but somehow didn't.

Alas, I am by no stretch of the imagination 6'3" (a good five inches shorter), nor do I own a slicker of the type you describe, though I wore them as a kid (purchased annually at the Navy surplus in Provincetown, along with other goodies like glass fishing floats and those rubberized flashlights that bend 90° at the top and come with interchangeable lenses) and I do now sometimes wear an old Patagonia Gore-Tex parka over a suit in poor weather.

I suppose one could make a case for Philadelphia Prep as a Trad offshoot of some sort. If so, foul-weather gear would certainly play into it, along with battered Shetlands and a few other hallmarks of the old rich. To be sure, I am not rich, and what money I have is not old, but having grown up on the fringes of that set certainly influenced, if not dictated, my style of dress, and as I've gotten older, I've been less and less inclined to apologize for it, or even to rein it in.

Anyway, that was all horribly off-topic. Apologies for rambling; it's been a long week.

EGF


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## Untilted

I need to get myself a camelhair polo coat.


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## NewYorkBuck

Slightly cold (30-45) - Burberry trench w liner

Very cold (<35) - Wool camel overcoat.


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## Orsini

Traditionally, the overcoat is for the dead of a northern European winter when it is really, really, really cold and is thus heavier and warmer. The topcoat is for the rest of the year and so is lighter in weight and not as warm. 

If you live in a warmer clime and do not have to do much trudging across the tundra mile after mile in the winter you could probably use a topcoat all year.


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## eg1

Patrick06790 said:


> Wicked cold - what we call "Brass Monkey" (as in "Better keep the brass monkeys in tonight, eh?")
> 
> I have various things but I keep returning to a lined London Fog trench and an LL Bean waxed coat.


I believe the full expression is "cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey" :icon_smile_big:

In the bitter cold I favour a full length charcoal overcoat in Biella cashmere/wool blend. For the merely damp/slushy days, the tan microfibre overcoat will do -- I call it my "Inspector Gadget" coat ...


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