# Looking for a new (used) car



## jimw (May 4, 2009)

I'm on the verge of needing a new car - my '98 Volvo V70 is still running decently, but its issues are piling up. Presently, I have an oil leak that will require taking the transmission apart to deal with, and with 200K on the odometer, it owes me nothin more.

I'd like some practical input - I already have my options open to the following, and mostly want feedback from those who have driven or dealt with these vehicles. Also, I have 3 children and 2 dogs, so a wagon is a must (my wife drives the minivan, thankfully!):

Volvo - I love my Volvo wagon (above), and can see getting a newer vintage of the same model (maybe a 2004, 2005). I also like the looks of the V50 wagon - its a bit smaller My concern is that its a hybrid of Ford, Volvo and Mitsubishi, so I don't know if its the reliable tank that I've come to admire in my V70. I do not want AWD/Cross country

Saab - my mechanic gives mixed review on these, and I don't know enough about turbocharged engines enough to trust them. Still, I like the looks, and my cousin has a 2004 wagon thats a very smart riding vehicle indeed.

Ford Focus wagons - simple, practical, and I've driven these as rental cars. They had a nice, nimble feel to them. I recognize these are not of the same stripe as the 2 options above, but I feel that a basic Ford can be a very traditional and thrifty option

I've had a Subaru in the past - it was rugged, but not very fuel efficient. Nix on most AWD or 4WD options - not enough economy to be worth my while. As for Audi's, I've never met anybody who was terribly thrilled beyond the aesthetics.

Any other ideas? Thanks for your input.

Jim


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Stick with Volvo. I do not own a wagon, but a few people have confused my '02 S60 with 120K with a new car. (In fact, I just drove it cross-country without a single issue, getting 35MPG!) My nephew had a V50, but it struck me as quite small. Saabs are no longer made, which is a deal-breaker for me, and a Ford is unlikely to last as long as a Volvo.


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

Good luck ,gents here spend more on a pair of shoes than I did for my first car.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

I guess Volvos are 'trad', hell, I bought several and still own an '85, but shouldn't this be in the Andy's Automotive Forum?


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

My advice is to stick with what you know, a newer version of the Volvo v70. With your kids and dogs, I don't think you would be happy in a smaller model. 

The nicest car I ever drove (comfort & handling) was a Saab, but good luck getting parts for one now that they are out of business. I have found BMW and Audi not the easiest cars to repair, and gave up on them after my A6 hit two deer in less than two weeks.

May I ask why you do not want an AWD or CrossCountry version? I would think that where you live it would come in very handy.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

The number of SAABs in traffic will keep parts a lucrative business for many years.

But Volvos are a safer bet. The SAAB turbos are great though.


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

blue suede shoes said:


> The nicest car I ever drove (comfort & handling) was a Saab, but good luck getting parts for one now that they are out of business.


As long as you live near a garage that works on Saabs, you'd be fine with one. The only Saab model that I would be concerned about from a parts standpoint is the 2010-11 9-5, which was introduced at a time when the Saab dealer network was in its death throes. Dealerships didn't build up a significant backlog of parts for these models as a result. Also, because they were sold for such a short time, they won't have the following that the older models enjoy, which will discourage independent garages from making the investment in figuring out how to service them. It's too bad because by all accounts they were very good cars.

I grew up in a Saab family, and my parents' 150k-mile '04 9-5 wagon is one of the most reliable cars I've ever known.


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

Saabs are wonderful cars to drive and you never receive the hateful glares that BMW drivers see. On the other hand even parts for the last generation 9-3, the most successful car the brand had produced, have become difficult to find. There have been many problems sourcing things like springs/ coilovers, electronic parts, etc., though the situation is improving. I have 65000miles on my vert and my first problem arose last month (ignition module) so I am happy with my reliability where many others are not. The 9-3 wagon is not a large car and I suspect might be too small for your needs; the 9-5 is larger but built on older technology with more extreme parts problems. 

All I can say is buyer beware; they are fun to have and unique in their own way but present some unique challenges to owners. In spite of these challenegs I plan on keeping mine until I am buried or the car is junked, or vice versa. I too had a 98 V70 that served me well but enjoy the Saab much much more. So, do you enjoy Roulette...


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Avoid the Saab. Stick with the Volvos. If you are against AWD, I don't think that Subaru is a good option. On a brighter note, at least you aren't contemplating a Jaguar.


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## AlfaNovember (Jun 27, 2011)

I confess, it saddens me to hear of the predicament Saab owners find themselves in. 
The feeling is not unlike hearing a distant, long-departed girlfriend has recently hit bottom; there's nothing to be done, but it's sad nonetheless. I was a big fan for many years - owned a '84 900, '87 900T, '99 9-3, and also persuaded four family members & friends to join the fold. I still have some club t-shirts in a box somewhere...

And FWIW - I've now owned my Audi S4 longer than all my Saabs put together... Still get thrills from it. But no - I wouldn't claim it was economical to run.


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## sidkane (May 22, 2004)

Of those you've listed, I've owned a Saab and Audi and frequently ride in a co-workers new Subaru wagon. 

Easily the best of the three was my Audi a8. Like a tomb (quiet) on the freeway, comfortable, great electronics etc. That said, got rid of it as it was coming off warranty as any repairs or service are very expensive on these types of cars. 

Saab was a quirky, ok car. nothing great, nothing horrible. Wouldn't buy one again. 

Very impressed with the Subaru for the money. Very tight, solid drive. Nice roomy interior and comfortable.


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

I drive a 2011 Subaru Outback and am very happy with it. I get around 20 mpg in mainly city driving. If I'm on a long highway trip it's 25-30 mpg. I've had 3 Saabs in the past but am concerned about their future to but another one at this time.


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## jimw (May 4, 2009)

drlivingston said:


> Avoid the Saab. Stick with the Volvos. If you are against AWD, I don't think that Subaru is a good option. On a brighter note, at least you aren't contemplating a Jaguar.


No, the Subaru (Forester) I owned, while solid, was not very economical for a 4cyl vehicle. As with many Canadians, I put more trust in a decent set of winter tires than in AWD.

My dad bought a Jaguar Vanden Plas as a late life indulgence - I give it all the standard kudos - nice lines, interior appointments, and a beautiful ride. But for day to day maintenance, it was no exception to most other British vehicles.

I recall a passage from Paul Fussel's 'Class' - Mercedes are "a sign of vulgarity, a car of the kind owned by Beverly Hills dentists or African cabinet ministers." I wonder if that's still the case - I tend to think so. I wonder about BMWs as well, but maybe that's because they're often tarted up with garish options and other 'bling'.

Interesting comments from all - thank you. There's a divide on perceptions I think, mostly based on reliability vs driving. I'm more interested in low-maintenance, and not so concerned with performance, but to each his own.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

jimw said:


> I wonder about BMWs as well, but maybe that's because they're often tarted up with garish options and other 'bling'.


It begs the old joke... "What's the difference between BMW's and a porcupine?"


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## Mister Krabs (Jun 1, 2012)

mhj said:


> I drive a 2011 Subaru Outback and am very happy with it. I get around 20 mpg in mainly city driving. If I'm on a long highway trip it's 25-30 mpg. I've had 3 Saabs in the past but am concerned about their future to but another one at this time.


I have a 4 cyl '11 outback and average 24.5 in town. On the highway I get 32 if I keep it around 70. It's worth driving the 4th generation ('10-13) outback on a test drive, I also cross shopped a used v/xc 70 when I chose mine and got a new subaru vs. a 5 y.o. v wagon at a similar price point. It's much, much more refined than the forester and has a bigger interior front and back seat than the previous generations. The 3.6 6cyl probably doesn't have the economy that you're looking for. If you're going used, the outback could induce sticker shock, it's got the highest resale value in it's class. I plan on keeping it for 10 years.


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## tgadd (Sep 20, 2012)

I had a '03 Saab 9-3 Vector. Such a great car, but expensive to fix and only going to get more expensive because they no longer make them. 

But, if I could get a smoking deal on a '12 9-5 I would probably buy one in a heart beat.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

There are fewer wagon alternatives available to North America than ever.

I have a 2001 Passat wagon V6 I bought new that still hauls. It's on limited boat and hardware store duty and drive it one week a month to work just to keep it moving.

VW only makes the Jetta in a wagon now but it's still a nice car. 

Passat wagons litter my neigborhood the way Volvos used to.


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## cumberlandpeal (May 12, 2006)

Have owned Volvos V70 and Toyota Land Cruisers. Highly recommend the VW Toureg TDI. Excellent mileage, very zippy, good amount of room.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

I'm a strong fan of Subarus. It's true that the mileage is not great, but it's still better than a Volvos, and the safety rating is higher. I've found them to be reliable here in the Maine winters, which should hold true in Ontario, wherever that is.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Jim, 

I live just south of you down on Lake Ontario, I would look at either a used VW Passat Wagon, Tiguan or Tourag.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

Another Volvo fan....are we all being braincontrolled by Muffy?  My first high school car was a '91 960 Turbo in British Racing Green. Drove like a boat and drank gas, but I loved it. Mind you I graduated in '07 so it wasn't necessarily a chick magnet car either haha. 

My vote goes to the V50. How about the XC60? Both look sleek to me. May end up getting the XC60 or 90 after I graduate from school myself. 

No opinion on the current Ford Focus wagons but I recently owned a '00 Focus Wagon SE as my college car. Had a range of problems and finally broke down a month ago at 140k. Now driving my mom's '03 S40 sport which I love to death (Whole family are Volvo drivers. She is looking at the XC60 as her new car. My brother drives a C70).


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

I drive a Grand Cherokee. It's in the shop, again. It seems like what was initially a cool, 10k jeep, has turned into a 10k jeep with another 5k repairs every year. If I had the money, I'd buy a Jeep Liberty or Compass. I've had it a few years now, and it's an absolute piece of garbage.

That said, it's got some cool features my 04 Buick never had. The Jeep is an 02 and it's a fairly cushy ride. When it works.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

*Big 3*

Folks around here will bend over backward for a made in the USA pair of chinos, made by a guy who likely doesn't pull down a living wage, but prefer foreign when it comes to one of the biggest purchases they'll ever make?Riddle me a confused Michigander.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

As a die-hard Volvo fan, I'm going to vote with my head here, and not my heart. I recommend the Ford. Volvo has a stellar reputation built squarely on the shoulders of Sweden-built, tri-digit cars with bulletproof I4 and I5 engines. Their quality started to slowly decline with the introduction of the "letter" models with a sharp decline after around 2000. The "best" of that era is precisely what you've got, IMO: the '98 V70. If you want proof, just take a look at what's available in junkyards. Plenty of later model 'S' and 'V' cars, but very few 200,700,900 and even 850 series, despite the swap to an I5 FWD configuration. My sister-in-law's '07 S40 is in the shop more often than my '93 245 is up on jackstands and my wagon's got 14 years and several hundred thousand miles on her sedan.

Saab is pretty much the same story and nothing since the GM takeover in '00 ever matched the well-earned success of the 900 (even the less popular new generation). 

I know the Ford doesn't have the cache of the other two, but you can get more car for the money. Think of it as the quartz Timex of your car choices. Alternatively, you can keep and repair the V70 you've got, but shop repair bills are expensive and, with three kids, I can't imagine that you've got a lot of time for DIY repairs.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Again suggest the Andy's Auto Forum for this but I want to pile on the comments about the expense of Volvo maintenance. I sold my last Volvo, a 2001 S 80 Turbo to my son-in-law. I had spent at least half of what I originally paid for it (used) on repairs. The Dealer service manager automatically shaved 15% and provided a sympathy card each visit. I hope my son-in-law sells it soon before it eats him alive. (I actually like him-he claims to be a DIY type, and he is...but...)

I now treasure my late mother's Wedgewood blue 1985 240 DL that will eventually tow my carcass to my funeral: cheap to fix and reliable.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

teamtc said:


> Folks around here will bend over backward for a made in the USA pair of chinos, made by a guy who likely doesn't pull down a living wage, but prefer foreign when it comes to one of the biggest purchases they'll ever make?Riddle me a confused Michigander.


When it comes to clothing, made in USA "usually" means better quality. That's just not the case with most modern American vehicles. Without getting political, there are reasons, IMO, why US car manufacturers have been incapable of making a decent car in decades (though I hear Ford is the exception, as of late). The (outsourced) electronics in every '90s and '00s GM product are complete garbage, and the rest of the components aren't too far behind. It really is the very definition of "Assembled in the USA from imported materials," but we're not talking about a pair of Bill's Khakis, here.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

I have a 2006 GMC Envoy which I bought used, I think it does all of the things a Volvo would but is cheap to fix. I like it because it's great in the snow, rain and dry and is quite comfortable.

We also have a 2008 G35S with a manual transmission. It is everything I ever wanted in a performance car. Great looking, fast and handles better then an M5. If you can find one used........


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## Mister Krabs (Jun 1, 2012)

teamtc said:


> Folks around here will bend over backward for a made in the USA pair of chinos, made by a guy who likely doesn't pull down a living wage, but prefer foreign when it comes to one of the biggest purchases they'll ever make?Riddle me a confused Michigander.


I'm from Jeep town originally, but the auto plants near me now are Kia, Hyundai, Mercedes and BMW. GM and Ford pulled up stakes around here to protect their Michigan and Ohio plants. My Subaru is made in Indiana.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

teamtc said:


> Folks around here will bend over backward for a made in the USA pair of chinos, made by a guy who likely doesn't pull down a living wage, but prefer foreign when it comes to one of the biggest purchases they'll ever make?Riddle me a confused Michigander.


It's not that confusing.

Remember that pretty girl you dated in high school? The one that you loved but treated you like cr*p because she could. After a while it wasn't worth it anymore. And so you started dating Suzie Honda or Amy Subaru. Yeah, she came from the wrong side of the tracks, but she loved you as much as you loved her, and in the end, that's all that counts.


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## CdnTrad (May 27, 2012)

jimw, I enjoyed your comment about Canadians and snow tires. You couldn't be more correct. I'd agree with a previous poster and go for the Focus wagon. Cheap, reliable and made in North America.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

David J. Cooper said:


> I have a 2006 GMC Envoy which I bought used, I think it does all of the things a Volvo would but is cheap to fix.


Volvos keep you safer. That's all that matters to me.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

filfoster said:


> I now treasure my late mother's Wedgewood blue 1985 240 DL that will eventually tow my carcass to my funeral: cheap to fix and reliable.


I think this forum needs a Volvo 240 thread in the worst way. It could still be trad clothing related: Which color 240 goes best with #8 shell, matching your belt buckle to your wheels, reupholstering the interior in Harris Tweed, etc.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Pentheos said:


> Volvos keep you safer. That's all that matters to me.


Volvo has always been an innovator in safety, adopting measures as standard equipment before other manufacturers, etc. However, in this case I believe the mid '00s Envoy might have scored a few points higher in safety ratings than the comparable XC90.


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## Red Tractors (Jan 9, 2011)

My '90 245

I can't honestly recommend one though, I'm still only half way through making the poor old beast reliable.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> However, in this case I believe the mid '00s Envoy might have scored a few points higher in safety ratings than the comparable XC90.


Perhaps, but Volvo doesn't engineer their cars with IIHS safety tests in mind, as their executives have publicly said. Did you know that Volvo now offers a pedestrian airbag?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Red Tractors said:


> My '90 245
> 
> I can't honestly recommend one though, I'm still only half way through making the poor old beast reliable.


She's a byoot! I'm glad you posted this. I've been wondering what my wagon would look like if I ditched the plastic hubs and went with the center caps and trim rings instead. Mine is a work in progress but still gets driven 100 miles a day without incident. The previous owners bought it new in '93 and had the original window sticker, paperwork and even a newspaper clipping from that year mourning the end of the 240 model, not to mention a stack of service records. I got all that for the princely sum of $800. Aside from regular maintenance and chasing down rubber and other wear parts, it hasn't given me any headaches. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend a 240 IF and only IF it's been well-maintained and taken care of with the receipts to prove it.



Pentheos said:


> Perhaps, but Volvo doesn't engineer their cars with IIHS safety tests in mind, as their executives have publicly said. Did you know that Volvo now offers a pedestrian airbag?


I stand corrected. That airbag is pretty cool! Better a broken leg than a broken head.


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## jimw (May 4, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> I think this forum needs a Volvo 240 thread in the worst way. It could still be trad clothing related: Which color 240 goes best with #8 shell, matching your belt buckle to your wheels, reupholstering the interior in Harris Tweed, etc.


I have to disagree on this. I know that belief in the 240 series is canon to many Volvo drivers, but I couldn't have been happier to get rid of ours. My wife had a 1990 sedan, and it was RWD and underpowered, IMHO. We had a slight grade in our driveway, and it could be comical trying to back it out to the road on a snowy day. The day we bought a V70 was when I really began to love Volvos.I don't have anything against N American vehicles on principle alone - my first 'very own' car was a little Saturn which made it to 200,000 miles, and never gave me any trouble. However, we also have a Dodge Caravan to ferry my brood around, and it has real reliability issues - I'm disappointed. Somebody made a point about many foreign manufacturers having full assembly lines in N. America - this keeps a lot of our neighbors employed. I suppose I should consider a Toyota Matrix - they're manufactured about 15 miles down the road from where I live.Odd that this thread got as much play as it has. I guess 'living trad' extends to the vehicles we drive, to a degree. I often tell myself that cars are a display of vulgarity, and that I should look at them in practical terms only ..... but in the end, I guess I'm just a poseur and charlatan!!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

jimw said:


> I have to disagree on this. I know that belief in the 240 series is canon to many Volvo drivers, but I couldn't have been happier to get rid of ours. My wife had a 1990 sedan, and it was RWD and underpowered, IMHO. We had a slight grade in our driveway, and it could be comical trying to back it out to the road on a snowy day. The day we bought a V70 was when I really began to love Volvos.


That's interesting. I've only ever owned one FWD vehicle and I got rid of it ASAP. The 240 is EXTREMELY well behaved in the snow, provided the driver knows what he's doing and the car has decent snow tires. The engineers at Volvo were smart enough to design the front track width much larger than the rear; so much so that it looks comical with the rear wheels sucked way into the fenders. However, this ensures that the drive wheels didn't have to drive over the compacted snow left directly behind the front wheels, providing much better traction. Also, 240s left the factory with a Dana 30 rear end (of Jeep fame), many with limited slip differentials. It's been commented on the thread already, that those who have the most experience driving in snowy conditions often prefer a RWD vehicle with snow tires than an AWD or even a 4X4 with all-seasons.

The standard Volvo B230F "red block" was never a high performance engine, though there were plenty of turbo models available. I've never thought it underpowered, though. But when it comes to reliability and longevity, a high performance gasoline engine running high compression, high valve lift and spring pressures with relatively low cylinder displacement will always wear out sooner than a lower performance engine subjected to the same use and maintenance. That's why so many of the "legendary" cars like the Mercedes 300D and 240 seem underpowered by modern standards, but regularly clock in 300k or more miles on the odo. In fact, the car with the world record for the most miles (a Volvo 1800S with almost 3 million miles) has an original B18 four-banger with a measly 115 hp.


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## teamtc (Jun 21, 2011)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> It's not that confusing. Remember that pretty girl you dated in high school? The one that you loved but treated you like cr*p because she could. After a while it wasn't worth it anymore. And so you started dating Suzie Honda or Amy Subaru. Yeah, she came from the wrong side of the tracks, but she loved you as much as you loved her, and in the end, that's all that counts.


 *shrug*


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

jimw said:


> I We had a slight grade in our driveway, and it could be comical trying to back it out to the road on a snowy day.
> but in the end, I guess I'm just a poseur and charlatan!!


Respecting hardline 42's claims for snow handling, everyone knows Volvos are laughable in the snow, especially considering where they originated. I've owned 4 and they were/are all bad in the snow, especially traction on slopes. Of course my driving is not to blame...

Don't feel bad about being a poseur and a charlatan...these are laudable aspirations in my opinion, and difficult to do well. I only manage them badly and to embrace them, makes for a small peer group among the much larger mob who deny the obvious.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

filfoster said:


> Respecting hardline 42's claims for snow handling, everyone knows Volvos are laughable in the snow, especially considering where they originated. I've owned 4 and they were/are all bad in the snow, especially traction on slopes. *Of course my driving is not to blame...*


 :tongue2:

Of course not! Just out of curiosity, were you running snow tires? There is a marked difference between all-season tires and snow tires. If you happen to live in a state that allows studded tires, the difference is even more remarkable.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> :tongue2:
> 
> Of course not! Just out of curiosity, were you running snow tires? There is a marked difference between all-season tires and snow tires. If you happen to live in a state that allows studded tires, the difference is even more remarkable.


No snow tires. I live in KY where these are not, to my knowledge, allowed any longer. I recall growing up in Ohio, and the fall ritual of changing to studded snow tires in December and the pleasant hum they made.
Our driveway is a gentle slope that resisted the attempts by all four of our Volvos to reach the street, ony 40 feet away....so near...and yet so far. Anything more than an inch of snow marooned them all.

Correction: No 'studded' snow tires are allowed. You can put on tires that have an alleged 'snow tread'.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

filfoster said:


> No snow tires. I live in KY where these are not, to my knowledge, allowed any longer. I recall growing up in Ohio, and the fall ritual of changing to studded snow tires in December and the pleasant hum they made.
> Our driveway is a gentle slope that resisted the attempts by all four of our Volvos to reach the street, ony 40 feet away....so near...and yet so far.


I see. Here in NJ, studded tire season is from October to March. I only put them on when there is, or is going to be, snow on the ground and they transform my wagon into a burly Euro-tractor.


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## Red Tractors (Jan 9, 2011)

As much as I love my 240, (Bought before I knew it had any "Trad" connotations). I think that the best modification you can do for winter driving in an older Volvo is to have a Jeep parked in the driveway beside it.


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## jimw (May 4, 2009)

Post-script to this thread: in the end I picked up a 7 yr old Toyota Matrix, a most un-trad choice! I'm going to splurge on new winter tires and rims.

Oh well, no regrets - hopefully it will prove a good heap for a salesman and father.

Any suggestions as to how I can give its a more 'natural shoulder' look?

Jim

QUOTE=jimw;1326295]I'm on the verge of needing a new car - my '98 Volvo V70 is still running decently, but its issues are piling up. Presently, I have an oil leak that will require taking the transmission apart to deal with, and with 200K on the odometer, it owes me nothin more.

I'd like some practical input - I already have my options open to the following, and mostly want feedback from those who have driven or dealt with these vehicles. Also, I have 3 children and 2 dogs, so a wagon is a must (my wife drives the minivan, thankfully!):

Volvo - I love my Volvo wagon (above), and can see getting a newer vintage of the same model (maybe a 2004, 2005). I also like the looks of the V50 wagon - its a bit smaller My concern is that its a hybrid of Ford, Volvo and Mitsubishi, so I don't know if its the reliable tank that I've come to admire in my V70. I do not want AWD/Cross country

Saab - my mechanic gives mixed review on these, and I don't know enough about turbocharged engines enough to trust them. Still, I like the looks, and my cousin has a 2004 wagon thats a very smart riding vehicle indeed.

Ford Focus wagons - simple, practical, and I've driven these as rental cars. They had a nice, nimble feel to them. I recognize these are not of the same stripe as the 2 options above, but I feel that a basic Ford can be a very traditional and thrifty option

I've had a Subaru in the past - it was rugged, but not very fuel efficient. Nix on most AWD or 4WD options - not enough economy to be worth my while. As for Audi's, I've never met anybody who was terribly thrilled beyond the aesthetics.

Any other ideas? Thanks for your input.

Jim[/QUOTE]


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Red Tractors said:


> As much as I love my 240, (Bought before I knew it had any "Trad" connotations). I think that the best modification you can do for winter driving in an older Volvo is to have a Jeep parked in the driveway beside it.


Excellent (good-natured) jab.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

teamtc said:


> *shrug*


Thank you. Coming from MI, your response, inadvertently, makes my point.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

jimw said:


> Post-script to this thread: in the end I picked up a 7 yr old Toyota Matrix, a most un-trad choice! I'm going to splurge on new winter tires and rims.
> 
> Oh well, no regrets - hopefully it will prove a good heap for a salesman and father.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the purchase. There's certainly no shame in purchasing something based on your needs. Toyotas are solid cars. My wife's '07 Camry is nearing 150k on the clock. With only regular oil changes and a little basic maintenance (just replacing consumables, really) it's given us exactly zero problems. As for giving the Matrix a "natural shoulder" look, start with a Ducks Unlimited decal and some nautical signal flags :smile:.

On a related note, I came across this article earlier today. Seems to address some of the issues you grappled with during the car selection process.


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## fiddler (Apr 19, 2010)

filfoster said:


> ...
> Our driveway is a gentle slope that resisted the attempts by all four of our Volvos to reach the street, ony 40 feet away....so near...and yet so far. Anything more than an inch of snow marooned them all.
> 
> ...


Get your friend/wife to sit in the trunk!  
Rear wheel drive is certainly fun in the winter, but to get enough traction you've got to have some weight over the tires.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

fiddler said:


> Get your friend/wife to sit in the trunk!
> Rear wheel drive is certainly fun in the winter, but to get enough traction you've got to have some weight over the tires.


Coupl'a cinder blocks over the rear axle does a good job for those of us with petite/unwilling wives!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

hardline_42 said:


> Congrats on the purchase. There's certainly no shame in purchasing something based on your needs. Toyotas are solid cars. My wife's '07 Camry is nearing 150k on the clock. With only regular oil changes and a little basic maintenance (just replacing consumables, really) it's given us exactly zero problems. As for giving the Matrix a "natural shoulder" look, start with a Ducks Unlimited decal and some nautical signal flags :smile:.
> 
> On a related note, I came across this article earlier today. Seems to address some of the issues you grappled with during the car selection process.


+1 on the reliability and longevity of those Toyota's. Back in the late 1980's and most of the 1990's I drove an SR-5, 4WD, wagon. Drove it for 12 years and accumulated 274,000 miles, before passing it on it's second owner! :thumbs-up:


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## jimw (May 4, 2009)

"As for giving the Matrix a "natural shoulder" look, start with a Ducks Unlimited decal and some nautical signal flags :smile:."

Nautical signal flags - that's funny! I haven't sailed in my life (have done extensive canoeing), so couldn't bring myself to do that, even as an ironic gesture. Maybe I should consider patchwork madras seat covers and install an analog radio to give it an air of archaism https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3506/3996192967_25bdcb6bd4.jpg !

Cheers,

Jim


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## Red Tractors (Jan 9, 2011)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Excellent (good-natured) jab.


Than you,

But it's all too true, just finished putting a new steel floor, springs, shocks, and bushings in my '96 Cherokee. With any luck it should be good for another 230,000 miles or so.

I love my Volvo, but when the snow falls, the 240 stays home.


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

My suggestion is a MB e320 or e350 Wagon. Damn near bulletproof. Drivetrain is good for 250k+ with just regular maintenance. Smooth on the highway and decent gas mileage. We also love Jeeps. Find a well maintained low mileage Cherokee. Last one rolled off of the assembly line in 2001. With luck and patience you can find one with less than 100k miles and a full service history. Then laugh all the way to the bank as you reliably put another 150k miles on the truck.... Late model Jeep Liberty is also a good vehicle. Our college age child drives one and it has been very reliable with just regular maintenance. Or you can look for a low mileage and well maintained V70. We have friends who own Saabs. They love them when they are running well. Personally I would be wary of owning a vehicle from a company that is no longer in business. 

Best, Ross


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