# Sword Canes.



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I've collected sticks for many years. And it must be what's left of the 9 year old in me, but I confess to still being fascinated by sword canes. Though for many good reasons I don't possess one.

And let's get this out of the way, in every jurisdiction in the U.S. with which I'm familiar (And most other places I'm sure.) it's not legal to purchase one, much less to carry it public. So this is purely for academic and aesthetic interest only.

But if anyone makes a more functional, beautifully made and handsome sword cane than Burger of South Africa, I've yet to see it. Precision made, deadly serious but beautiful.


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

That is really cool. Admittedly not a fascination of mine, but cool nonetheless.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> That is really cool. Admittedly not a fascination of mine, but cool nonetheless.


Most I've seen are just toys really, admittedly dangerous ones, though mostly to anyone attempting to depend upon one. Others *are* functional, and *do* look like a conventional walking stick. But this is the only one that looks as if it's built by a collaboration between Mercedes and a Toledo sword smith.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Some years ago I was looking for a sword hiking stick for my father to use. Didn't see anything that I thought he would like. In my early twenties I had problems out hiking alone several times. Pimps like young twenty years olds is what I found out. It can be a dangerous world out there, especially for young college age women. Out of hiking thousands of times alone it has mostly been fine except a few times. There were also bears, cougar and pitt bulls to think about a few times. But, 99% of the time no worries.

In the US each state has its own rules for concealed weapons. Cal. and another state don't allow, so I read. In your house you may not need a concealed weapons permit in some states. The ones above are nice works of art. So, why not one own one or more.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

WA said:


> Some years ago I was looking for a sword hiking stick for my father to use. Didn't see anything that I thought he would like. In my early twenties I had problems out hiking alone several times. Pimps like young twenty years olds is what I found out. It can be a dangerous world out there, especially for young college age women. Out of hiking thousands of times alone it has mostly been fine except a few times. There were also bears, cougar and pitt bulls to think about a few times. But, 99% of the time no worries.
> 
> In the US each state has its own rules for concealed weapons. Cal. and another state don't allow, so I read. In your house you may not need a concealed weapons permit in some states. The ones above are nice works of art. So, why not one own one or more.


https://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2013/04/know-your-knife-laws-new-jersey/

"Any person who knowingly has in his possession any other weapon under circumstances not manifestly appropriate for such lawful uses as it may have is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

As a lawyer I don't understand how a statute like this hasn't been struck down as unconstitutionally vague. There are published accounts of citizens being _arrested_ for no other reason than having an ordinary pocketknife in their possession. With a law this broad, even a Leatherman tool or Victorinox might not have a 'manifestly appropriate use' under the circumstances of the moment when the cops start asking questions.

I didn't even bother looking up whether New Jersey state law preempts local law, because it's nearly impossible to get any worse than NJ state law anyway.

*Conclusion: Everything is illegal there.* Unless and until they bring their laws back in line with common sense and the U.S. constitution, avoid everything New Jersey."


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Any of your neighbors have a pitt bull or Rottweiler? When you go to get the mail then you have a ‘manifestly appropriate use’. Otherwise, a wealthy person needs to sue the state. 

In the Seattle area an 8x old lady was on her front door step and the neighbors two pitt bulls, from across the street, came and attacked her. Ripped muscles off her bones and huge amount of permanent damage.


----------



## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

I've often thought a sword stick might be a good accessory, but one as likely to cause trouble to myself rather than any assailant. I'm surprised they are illegal in the States, given that more deadly weapons seem to be so freely available.


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Flanderian said:


> I've collected sticks for many years. And it must be what's left of the 9 year old in me, but I confess to still being fascinated by sword canes. Though for many good reasons I don't possess one.
> 
> And let's get this out of the way, in every jurisdiction in the U.S. with which I'm familiar (And most other places I'm sure.) it's not legal to purchase one, much less to carry it public. So this is purely for academic and aesthetic interest only.
> 
> But if anyone makes a more functional, beautifully made and handsome sword can than Burger of South Africa, I've yet to see it. Precision made, deadly serious but beautiful.


Those are some nice looking canes.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

WA said:


> Any of your neighbors have a pitt bull or Rottweiler? When you go to get the mail then you have a 'manifestly appropriate use'. Otherwise, a wealthy person needs to sue the state.
> 
> In the Seattle area an 8x old lady was on her front door step and the neighbors two pitt bulls, from across the street, came and attacked her. Ripped muscles off her bones and huge amount of permanent damage.


I agree with you! Unfortunately, logic does not necessarily apply. It is no accident the statutes governing the issue are so vague and ambiguous. What's legal and what's illegal? Whatever the police and courts say it is.

And the treatment I linked is just the broad brush. There are also county, and even municipal statutes that may deal with the issue and can interact with the State statutes to modify or supersede them unless specifically precluded by the State law.



Langham said:


> I've often thought a sword stick might be a good accessory, but one as likely to cause trouble to myself rather than any assailant. *I'm surprised they are illegal in the States, given that more deadly weapons seem to be so freely available.*


The American legal system is an industry. This is good for business.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Howard said:


> Those are some nice looking canes.


Thank you, Howard!

I think you and I should each get one of the sticks below and take a stroll along Utopia Parkway. But since I'm old and decrepit and walk with a stick anyway, I might appear somewhat natural. Unfortunately you, however, would be on your own.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Why oh why would they declare something so elegantly engraved, so truly beautiful to the eye, and offering the user functional utility on several fronts, to be illegal for purchase or ownership? Should it be illegal to allow the potential victim an opportunity to present a potential assailant with an unpleasant discovery? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Why oh why would they declare something so elegantly engraved, so truly beautiful to the eye, and offering the user functional utility on several fronts, to be illegal for purchase or ownership? Should it be illegal to allow the potential victim an opportunity to present a potential assailant with an unpleasant discovery? :icon_scratch:


You're displaying unwarranted common sense! :biggrin:

The detailed answer to your entirely reasonable question is no doubt buried beneath a pile of arcane history and politics.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> I agree with you! Unfortunately, logic does not necessarily apply. It is no accident the statutes governing the issue are so vague and ambiguous. What's legal and what's illegal? Whatever the police and courts say it is.
> 
> And the treatment I linked is just the broad brush. There are also county, and even municipal statutes that may deal with the issue and can interact with the State statutes to modify or supersede them unless specifically precluded by the State law.


That sounds like a lot of latitude. Surely, the colleges have fencing and other sword sports! How many college students would have their own? I git the sense that you would be buying it for art: that puts it in a whole different category. Not to mention, if you are an elderly gentleman, would law enforcement even care? You can ask the local police and sheriff. Ambiguous leaves them the ability to charge those who abuse their freedom while leaving the rest of us free. Saves on writing tedious details. Ask to see how the locals interpret the law. The greedy will say no. The others should have respect for us.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

WA said:


> That sounds like a lot of latitude. Surely, the colleges have fencing and other sword sports! How many college students would have their own? I git the sense that you would be buying it for art: that puts it in a whole different category. Not to mention, if you are an elderly gentleman, would law enforcement even care? You can ask the local police and sheriff. Ambiguous leaves them the ability to charge those who abuse their freedom while leaving the rest of us free. Saves on writing tedious details. Ask to see how the locals interpret the law. The greedy will say no. The others should have respect for us.


The example you cited of a fencing program is an excellent one. The actual State statutes are worded in such a way that non-proscribed blades *can* be carried for any lawful purpose. But it is left virtually unhindered in the hands of individual officers to decide ad hoc what they consider lawful. In your example, I expect the majority would not be bothered, particularly since such weapons are, I believe, blunted and carried in separate containers. Other than that, NJ law enforcement's intolerance for bladed weapons is notorious, though elevated social status (I.e., got bucks!) will procure some consideration.

But even that is no protection. Though not in NJ, former NYC mayor David Dinkins was discovered strolling the avenues of Manhattan with a sword cane in hand. And *he* was arrested, *and* prosecuted!


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Wow! Sounds like unamerican.


----------



## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> ...
> But even that is no protection. Though not in NJ, former NYC mayor David Dinkins was discovered strolling the avenues of Manhattan with a sword cane in hand. And *he* was arrested, *and* prosecuted!


One of the principal features of a sword stick being that it is a concealed/disguised weapon, no one need know your walking cane is a weapon, at least until such time as you are obliged to make use of it. At that moment, presumably, you will be glad you had it about your person, regardless of any legal processes to which you may later be subject. If, as in the instant case, your weapon is revealed to be a work of great art and craftsmanship, I feel that would stand in your favour, at least in some way, assuming your judge to be a man of sound character.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

WA said:


> Wow! Sounds like unamerican.





Langham said:


> One of the principal features of a sword stick being that it is a concealed/disguised weapon, no one need know your walking cane is a weapon, at least until such time as you are obliged to make use of it. At that moment, presumably, you will be glad you had it about your person, regardless of any legal processes to which you may later be subject. If, as in the instant case, your weapon is revealed to be a work of great art and craftsmanship, I feel that would stand in your favour, at least in some way, assuming your judge to be a man of sound character.


It's complicated, and I can see both sides of the issue, as well as acknowledging what can be the subjective nature of the motivation of individual specific officers or other members of the justice system.

A note to friend Langham; despite its representation to the contrary in much of the world's press all Americans aren't walking down the street armed to the teeth. And in the jurisdictional crazy quilt out of which the American legal system evolved, many states have statutes for firearms which are quite restrictive, and one of them is NJ. I say this to explain in advance the obvious objection to my line of argument, which is, if all Americans are armed with firearms, why would law enforcement concern itself with something like a sword cane?

And the answer is that the vast majority of law enforcement officers would prefer that the citizenry not be armed, period! They would say that unarmed they present less danger to one another, *and to officers!* And despite the many problematic issues inherent in such a view, looked at subjectively from their perspective, they're likely right.

Both police and prosecutors exercise broad discretion as to which offenses they go after and which they don't. And collectively bladed weapons have historically been viewed by law enforcement as being possessed almost exclusively for criminal intent, and are usually gone after with all the legal weapons available.

A bit more than 25 years ago as a younger man I was walking down the road with one of my blackthorn sticks when local officers in a patrol car pulled up beside me and greeted me in a friendly manner, and asked jokingly if my stick had a sword in it. I responded that it did not in the same tone, but I knew they weren't joking. Bladed weapons are obviously something that concerns much/most of law enforcement. And irrespective of whether I might eventually prevail in court, carrying such a stick is definitely not worth the aggravation and legal expense that could possibly ensue.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

"And the answer is that the vast majority of law enforcement officers would prefer that the citizenry not be armed, period! They would say that unarmed they present less danger to one another, and to officers! And despite the many problematic issues inherent in such a view, looked at subjectively from their perspective, they're likely right." 

This reasoning is heavily pushed by organize crime. They want their victims completely harmless. People who can't fight back have no chance. If they are never seen again, then how can they be reported dead? Organize crime knows how to work the lie of safety and the progressives are easily deceived and push it too. Problematic? Without a doubt, I believe far more people disappear than those who reach for a weapon to quickly. When organize crime stomps all over honest law enforcement....


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Flanderian said:


> Thank you, Howard!
> 
> I think you and I should each get one of the sticks below and take a stroll along Utopia Parkway. But since I'm old and decrepit and walk with a stick anyway, I might appear somewhat natural. Unfortunately you, however, would be on your own.


How do you know about Utopia Parkway? You live in New Jersey.


----------



## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> ...
> 
> A note to friend Langham; despite its representation to the contrary in much of the world's press all Americans aren't walking down the street armed to the teeth.
> ....


For some time, the image of America that the media projects here has been somewhat troubling in terms of gun crime, sufficiently so that on my (so far) only visit to the States, a short stay with a friend who was working in Manhattan, various people warned me against going. In the event, I was glad to have ignored the warnings, it was a most pleasant stay and I found the place less stressful (and less violent) than London, where I lived at the time.

Realistically, I would not advocate carrying a sword stick. But then again, I have never (yet) been set upon by a murderous assailant ... if that happened, I might well have second thoughts on the matter.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Howard said:


> How do you know about Utopia Parkway? You live in New Jersey.


I was a secret agent from Jersey spying on Bayside! :cool2:

(Though it may also have something to do with many trips over the Throg's Neck Bridge. )



Langham said:


> For some time, the image of America that the media projects here has been somewhat troubling in terms of gun crime, sufficiently so that on my (so far) only visit to the States, a short stay with a friend who was working in Manhattan, various people warned me against going. In the event, I was glad to have ignored the warnings, it was a most pleasant stay and I found the place less stressful (and less violent) than London, where I lived at the time.
> 
> Realistically, I would not advocate carrying a sword stick. But then again, I have never (yet) been set upon by a murderous assailant ... if that happened, I might well have second thoughts on the matter.


Gun violence is a problem in the U.S.! And most sadly the greatest effect is within poorer communities. The greatest difference within such communities is that now a large percentage of youth is armed, whereas when I was a boy 50+ years ago, almost no one was. And such communities have certainly become far more dangerous as a result, and travel within them can deserve the level of concern your friends expressed.


----------



## ran23 (Dec 11, 2014)

I am happy to have turned 62 and what one now.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

WA said:


> "And the answer is that the vast majority of law enforcement officers would prefer that the citizenry not be armed, period! They would say that unarmed they present less danger to one another, and to officers! And despite the many problematic issues inherent in such a view, looked at subjectively from their perspective, they're likely right."
> 
> This reasoning is heavily pushed by organize crime. They want their victims completely harmless. People who can't fight back have no chance. If they are never seen again, then how can they be reported dead? Organize crime knows how to work the lie of safety and the progressives are easily deceived and push it too. Problematic? Without a doubt, I believe far more people disappear than those who reach for a weapon to quickly. When organize crime stomps all over honest law enforcement....


I have no personal experience with members of organized crime. But I have a fair amount with law officers, including family members, and the view I describe is virtually universal. In fact, I can't recall a single one advocating a greater arming of the citizenry.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> I have no personal experience with members of organized crime. But I have a fair amount with law officers, including family members, and the view I describe is virtually universal. In fact, I can't recall a single one advocating a greater arming of the citizenry.


What did Benjamin Franklin say? "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Law enforcement that doesn't agree doesn't belong in the US.

Logging and fishing are more dangerous jobs. What other industries are more dangerous than law enforcement? These are choosen careers. Just because those who choose law enforcement doesn't give them the right to speak against freedoms, much more try to take them away. Nor do they have a right to US citizenship. When I swore an oath to vote I swore an oath to defend freedom. Not remove freedom. Has America changed so much? No more bravery? Becoming a flock of chickens? I really believe in deportation of unworthy people.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

WA said:


> What did Benjamin Franklin say? "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Law enforcement that doesn't agree doesn't belong in the US.
> 
> Logging and fishing are more dangerous jobs. What other industries are more dangerous than law enforcement? These are choosen careers. Just because those who choose law enforcement doesn't give them the right to speak against freedoms, much more try to take them away. Nor do they have a right to US citizenship. When I swore an oath to vote I swore an oath to defend freedom. Not remove freedom. Has America changed so much? No more bravery? Becoming a flock of chickens? I really believe in deportation of unworthy people.


I think we've got 5 or 6 more topics here than simply sword canes. :thumbs-up:


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

If I were an interior decorator they would fit really nice on a short wall in a locked case. That is two of them criss crossed. They are to nice to go walking with. And some would hurt the palm of the hand if you actually used it for a cane to lean on. I think they are really basically art. If you got to many paintings on the wall. These are a good replacement for one of those paintings.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Hmmm.....
a brace of crossed sword canes might make an interesting arrangement on the wall in ones Man Cave, but that still leaves one facing the dilemma that they still cannot be legally purchased!


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Hmmm.....
> a brace of crossed sword canes might make an interesting arrangement on the wall in ones Man Cave, but that still leaves one facing the dilemma that they still cannot be legally purchased!


That's variable by jurisdiction, but in Florida?

I thought you could buy just about anything in Florida!


----------



## jeffreyc (Apr 8, 2010)

[/QUOTE]

They look beautiful, a great mixture of art and workmanship.
I am not sure about the situation in the UK. You could be arrested for walking around with one on the grounds of intent, but you might be able to keep it in your house.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> That's variable by jurisdiction, but in Florida?
> 
> I thought you could buy just about anything in Florida!


It does appear that Florida's concealed carry law allows for the carrying of a sword cane and/or other bladed instruments! If one can carry them, I suppose it is only reasonable to think that one might be able to buy them...yes, no? Regardless, truth be known, I would rather spend the money on shoes/boots! :crazy:


----------



## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

> They look beautiful, a great mixture of art and workmanship.
> I am not sure about the situation in the UK. You could be arrested for walking around with one on the grounds of intent, but you might be able to keep it in your house.


That is the case. Displays of knives, swords, lances, spears and various other bladed or pointed weapons are not at all uncommon in some houses. I knew someone at one time who had a most impressive array of daggers.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> It does appear that Florida's concealed carry law allows for the carrying of a sword cane and/or other bladed instruments! If one can carry them, I suppose it is only reasonable to think that one might be ble to buy them...yes, no? Regardless, truth be known, I would rather spend the money on shoes/boots! :crazy:


"yes, no?" Who knows? I wouldn't wish to make a bet, oxymoronic statutes aren't uncommon, at least in NJ.

Shoes and boots or sword canes?
Nah, shoes and boots *and* sword canes! :happy:

Heck, ya' never know when you might have to protect a loved one from a 'gator!


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Here is a cane. Don't know if it is more than that.

https://www.styleforum.net/content/type/61/id/2232893/


----------



## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> It does appear that Florida's concealed carry law allows for the carrying of a sword cane and/or other bladed instruments! If one can carry them, I suppose it is only reasonable to think that one might be able to buy them...yes, no? Regardless, truth be known, I would rather spend the money on shoes/boots! :crazy:


What about a boot with a sheath for a nice knife? And perhaps a holster in the other for a small pistol?
Gurdon


----------



## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Gurdon said:


> What about a boot with a sheath for a nice knife? And perhaps a holster in the other for a small pistol?
> Gurdon


(Pertaining to Florida...)

As soon as a blade is concealed in a boot, it can't have a blade longer than 4"; otherwise, blades have to be open-carried.

It's a little tricky with a swordcane, but I think most courts would rule that it's a concealed blade, so (amusingly) you could wear a rapier on your belt, or strap on a good Scottish claymore, and walk about with impunity, but the swordcane (might) land you in jail.

As for an ankle holster, as long as it fits the description of "secure carry" (snaps, finger release, etc) - and you have a carry license - the small pistol is just fine.

But it's easier to equip a zweihander sword and an AR-15, all openly carried, than it is to skulk about with your ankle-derringer and swordcane, at least from a legal perspective. 'Merica!

DH


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Oh well...
back to the drawing board! LOL.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Gurdon said:


> What about a boot with a sheath for a nice knife? And perhaps a holster in the other for a small pistol?
> Gurdon


LOL. Well...my Custom Hides 1946 Army (desiign) Briefcase did come with an optional holster in the front sleeve of the case. A matching holster in the boot shaft might be nice! :crazy:


----------

