# Joseph A Bank



## welldressedfellow (May 28, 2008)

From what I've seen,the majority of people on this site have it in for Jos A Bank,and I would like to know why?I shop there often,and have had only one major issue,the employees are not overly helpful or friendly.Other than that,I think it's a great store,and you can't beat the prices.So what is everyones beef with them?


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Their clothes are a decent value for the money, but JAB isn't a place for people who appreciate fine clothing. The clothes are average and style is bland, but many here like the _Joseph_ line, which is more stylish than the rest. People here often complain about the poor quality of the sales people. I can't stand all the non-iron shirts they have. I got a nice broadcloth shirt from them a few years ago when they still had a few non-treated cotton shirts. If you're on a tight budget and need something right away, JAB is fine. If you can wait around for good deals on better clothes you're better off somewhere else.


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## welldressedfellow (May 28, 2008)

Matt S said:


> Their clothes are a decent value for the money, but JAB isn't a place for people who appreciate fine clothing. The clothes are average and style is bland, but many here like the _Joseph_ line, which is more stylish than the rest. People here often complain about the poor quality of the sales people. I can't stand all the non-iron shirts they have. I got a nice broadcloth shirt from them a few years ago when they still had a few non-treated cotton shirts. If you're on a tight budget and need something right away, JAB is fine. If you can wait around for good deals on better clothes you're better off somewhere else.


I don't get suits from them,but I like their sportswear,amongst other things.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

I don't have it in for them. Your point is well taken about the staff being unfriendly and not overly helpful. In a depressed retail environment one might think being friendly and helpful would come naturally but I guess I'm old school. My dislike of JAB is based in the comparison of how they are today to their days as a manufacturing merchant but nothing stays the same so there's no point beating that dead horse.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

Matt S said:


> Their clothes are a decent value for the money, but JAB isn't a place for people who appreciate fine clothing. The clothes are average and style is bland, but many here like the _Joseph_ line, which is more stylish than the rest. People here often complain about the poor quality of the sales people. I can't stand all the non-iron shirts they have. I got a nice broadcloth shirt from them a few years ago when they still had a few non-treated cotton shirts. If you're on a tight budget and need something right away, JAB is fine. If you can wait around for good deals on better clothes you're better off somewhere else.


That sums it up pretty well. JAB was where I bought my first suit with my own money during college. I think they have their place in the natural progression of learning about and appreciating fine clothing.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Matt S said:


> ...JAB isn't a place for people who appreciate fine clothing&#8230;


 I must respectfully disagree with this. Some folks who are quire capable of appreciating better go to JAB, MW, etc., because that is the best that they can afford at that particular point in their "career." 

For the OP: While JAB is what it is, it is not actually *bad* when is on sale and is the best you can afford. However, at this price point, you might wish to look at Baroni.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Frankly, I don't have it in for JAB either. I just don't like the cut or style of their clothing. I prefer Italian cut and higher quality clothes. I have nothing against getting a decent suit, SC, etc...at a good price, I just prefer a different style.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Tonyp said:


> Frankly, I don't have it in for JAB either. I just don't like the cut or style of their clothing. I prefer Italian cut and higher quality clothes. I have nothing against getting a decent suit, SC, etc...at a good price, I just prefer a different style.


 Can you suggest any alternatives for us in that JAB price point?


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

Orsini said:


> Can you suggest any alternatives for us in that JAB price point?


What price point are you looking at? I'd be glad to tell you what brands I would buy in place of JAB.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

You guys should all come shop at the Madison store then? I work there and every employee is helpful. =D


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

nolan50410 said:


> What price point are you looking at? I'd be glad to tell you what brands I would buy in place of JAB.


 Well, let us stretch it a bit and say in the $250.00 USD to $500.00 USD range (that lower figure is probably about the most I would pay for a JAB two-piece suit). I paid ~$450.00 USD for a suit the other day from (eek!) MW but I needed it *real* fast...


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Orsini said:


> Well, let us stretch it a bit and say in the $250.00 USD to $500.00 USD range (that lower figure is probably about the most I would pay for a JAB two-piece suit). I paid ~$450.00 USD for a suit the other day from (eek!) MW but I needed it *real* fast...


What suit did you get at MW for $450?


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Orsini said:


> Can you suggest any alternatives for us in that JAB price point?


To be honest, I haven't been in a JAB store in quite some time. What are their suits priced at. If I know the general price for a suit then I can't be of some help. I know the have several lines, like gold and signature and remember retail prices at the top around $800. Is this correct?


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## 82-Greg (Apr 13, 2008)

Tonyp said:


> To be honest, I haven't been in a JAB store in quite some time. What are their suits priced at. If I know the general price for a suit then I can't be of some help. I know the have several lines, like gold and signature and remember retail prices at the top around $800. Is this correct?


Everyday prices are misleading. They are almost always sales every other month or so. I've seen signature for less than $350 and believe I've seen a forum discussion indicating they went for $300 or less.


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## suitsyousir (Aug 8, 2008)

Bought a J. Press suit for $265 during the summer 50% off sale. I think this is the kind of deal which should allow anyone to look beyond MW and JAB. 

That's only if one finds the J. Press product superior, of course.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

In all honesty, how good is the quality of a suit for $250-$300. I buy most of my suits on sale if posible but from time to time I do buy a MTM suit or have a bespoke garment made. but I can usually find suits that retail for $2000-$3000 selling for $800-$1100 on sale. I have been to Brooks Bros. and found nice have canvassed suits for $500. 

Nordstrom rack gets some very nice suits from time to time for $300-$400 that are $1000+ retail. Barneys, NM, bloomingdales all have good sales and you can get some great stuff. Buy less but buy better quality. I admit that when I first graduated college and law school I had no money to spend on expensive clothes. As I made more money I started to invest little by little on better quality clothing.

I like quality workmanship and good fabric. You are going to have to pay a little more from time to time to get that. Rather than buying 4 suits at $300 each. buy 1 for $900 on sale and buy a lesser quality for $300. Eventually the but quality suits will start appearing in your closet and the lesser quality will wear out and be replaced.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Tonyp said:


> In all honesty, how good is the quality of a suit for $250-$300. I buy most of my suits on sale if posible but from time to time I do buy a MTM suit or have a bespoke garment made. but I can usually find suits that retail for $2000-$3000 selling for $800-$1100 on sale. I have been to Brooks Bros. and found nice have canvassed suits for $500.
> 
> Nordstrom rack gets some very nice suits from time to time for $300-$400 that are $1000+ retail. Barneys, NM, bloomingdales all have good sales and you can get some great stuff. Buy less but buy better quality. I admit that when I first graduated college and law school I had no money to spend on expensive clothes. As I made more money I started to invest little by little on better quality clothing.
> 
> I like quality workmanship and good fabric. You are going to have to pay a little more from time to time to get that. Rather than buying 4 suits at $300 each. buy 1 for $900 on sale and buy a lesser quality for $300. Eventually the but quality suits will start appearing in your closet and the lesser quality will wear out and be replaced.


You have to understand that JAB's profit works by buying tons and tons of fabric in bulk. It is a truly astounding amount, and they buy contracts for like 2-3 years. It significantly reduces cost. The profit margin on a suit there is almost nothing - the reason for this is to get people in and buy a suit and then buy shirts and ties with it.

It is also much harder to find a Hickey Freeman or Oxxford or the like at a Nordstrom Rack that is a solid navy or classic pinstripe. I've been to Sak's and Nordstrom Rack recently and most were much more wild patterns. Including one that had a neon pink pinstripe.



suitsyousir said:


> Bought a J. Press suit for $265 during the summer 50% off sale. I think this is the kind of deal which should allow anyone to look beyond MW and JAB.
> 
> That's only if one finds the J. Press product superior, of course.


You also have to have access to J. Press. You have to realize JAB is in a lot of places where there aren't a ton of other choices - especially in the Midwest.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

brokencycle said:


> What suit did you get at MW for $450?


 It is a Joseph & Feiss, charcoal, two-button, SB, center-vent, size 54, for $447.04 at full retail, out-the-door. I needed to get it into the tailor for alteration *that day* to have it back in time for a funeral so there was no time to shop around. I got a pair of AE PA's at Nordstrom $243.35 on sale, out-the -door.

P.S. - I just realized I had my posters mixed up. Sorry for the confusion...


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## suitsyousir (Aug 8, 2008)

brokencycle said:


> You also have to have access to J. Press. You have to realize JAB is in a lot of places where there aren't a ton of other choices - especially in the Midwest.


Oh trust me, I feel your pain: the first suit I bought in the US, after leaving all my clothing behind in Europe, was at a "Knight's Chamber" in a mall in Minnesota. That suit also happened to be made in China. I still shudder when my wife forces me to look at those wedding photos. I continued to wear that damn "immigrant suit" for four years until I had enough money to overhaul my wardrobe.

But there are alternatives in the Midwest, and I cannot recommend ebay highly enough. Instead of hunting for clothiers, I suggest finding the best alterations tailor in the area. That, to me, is the key to cheap suit success anyway, whether from JAB or Jim Bob.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Tonyp said:


> To be honest, I haven't been in a JAB store in quite some time. What are their suits priced at. If I know the general price for a suit then I can't be of some help. I know the have several lines, like gold and signature and remember retail prices at the top around $800. Is this correct?


 Today the Signature Gold is ~$800 - ~$1300 full retail, on sale for ~$600 - ~$400. The Joseph is ~$900 full retail, on sale for ~$400.

Of course, you would *NEVER* want to pay those full retail prices for *anything* at JAB&#8230; 
(or anywhere else in the universe, for that matter).


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## left_fielder (Mar 20, 2008)

brokencycle said:


> You also have to have access to J. Press. You have to realize JAB is in a lot of places where there aren't a ton of other choices - especially in the Midwest.


Exactly one of my reasons for shopping there (a mortgage and two boys results in the other). Living in the rural midwest certainly limits my options. I'm not ready to roll the dice online with a more expensive suit and then potentially have twice as much in it in alterations. The manager of our nearest store was great, but moved on to bigger and better. I stopped in this weekend to pick up another suit and when no one came around to help, I just double-checked my size, went home and ordered online. Luckily they fit well enough OTR for me. So far I don't know any better, so ignorant bliss...


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

This topic seems to come up a lot, I think JAB's stuff on sale is decent value and is the best option in a lot of the country. We finally got a BB in our state, so if I really want a suit from them, I can try it on before I buy. I know you can order & return, but that's too much of a hassle for me. I'd rather be able to go into a local store, try the item on to see exactly how it fits and not have to guess. JAB's sale going on right now has some really good deals on odd sport coats, suits. etc. This past Winter I got a grey flannel suit from them for $100, can't argue w/ that.

Brian


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

vwguy said:


> This topic seems to come up a lot, I think JAB's stuff on sale is decent value and is the best option in a lot of the country. We finally got a BB in our state, so if I really want a suit from them, I can try it on before I buy. I know you can order & return, but that's too much of a hassle for me. I'd rather be able to go into a local store, try the item on to see exactly how it fits and not have to guess. JAB's sale going on right now has some really good deals on odd sport coats, suits. etc. This past Winter I got a grey flannel suit from them for $100, can't argue w/ that.
> 
> Brian


I agree. I am awfully hesitant to buy a suit or sportcoat off the internet - especially ebay.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

brokencycle said:


> I agree. I am awfully hesitant to buy a suit or sportcoat off the internet - especially ebay.


I've done, it w/ mixed results. Even knowing I'm a 44L w/ whatever brand, it's still a crap shoot. Measurements are one thing, fit is another.

Brian


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## DonV (Apr 2, 2006)

I get my basic trousers from them - gray, tan, olive, etc. I know now to go with Short instead of Regular as I feel the rise is high, but they're OK trousers. It's a decent store for inexpensive basics. Their signature peak-lapel tuxedo even has most of the details right; I'll probably purchase either it or a Marco Valentino from eBay. Additionally, they carry some Allen Edmonds shoes, which could be helpful if there's no AE or Nordstrom store near you.


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## BoX (Mar 29, 2006)

Buy a suit from JAB that fits you well and then take care of it. You will look better then the 95% of the folks out there. The problem is that the other 5% are members of this forum so JAB gets kicked around a lot.

-BoX


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## Diggy18 (Apr 11, 2008)

This kind of question is really pretty interesting since it brings up socio-economic issues and gets into those funny considerations behind economic decisions.

If you feel like you "need" a certain suit, then maybe you are willing to forgo better quality in exchange for getting something right away. Ironically, in the situation we are discussing "getting it right away" means paying less, too.

But if you've already got a bunch of suits, or you have few suits but also rarely need to wear a suit, then you may feel like you can afford to wait until you come across something really nice.

And even though a Baroni at say $600 might be a far better value than a JAB at $300, if you've only got $300 to spend then the whole issue of which purchase is a better value is moot. And yes, generally speaking fewer high quality suits may be better than a multitude of lesser quality suits, but what if you wear a suit five days a week? How boring would it be to only have two really nice suits and wear the same one every other day? It's better to get a number of cheaper, lesser quality suits. Then later you can work your way around to the better quality, better value purchases.

I also think a lot of people really don't know where to look for the nicer deals on suits when they first start out wearing them. I know I NEVER heard of Filene's Basement before looking on this site. And I never guessed Marshall's would have nice suits, too.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Diggy18 said:


> And even though a Baroni at say $600 might be a far better value than a JAB at $300...


It's interesting how these made-up, sound like Italian 'boutique' names have become almost orthodox on this forum. After reading the long thread and Andy's analysis, on the merits or otherwise of the wares of the Wizard of Aahs, I can only conclude that these Baroni suits are worth what customers are charged for them - around $300 dollars.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Diggy18 said:


> ...a Baroni at say $600 might be a far better value than a JAB at $300...


 Relative value aside, I would imagine that Baroni would be more in the $250-$300 range. If I had had more time, or had simply built my wardrobe in advance, I would have gone for Baroni or possibly a J. Press like the other gentleman mentioned.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Hector Freemantle said:


> It's interesting how these made-up, sound like Italian 'boutique' names have become almost orthodox on this forum. After reading the long thread and Andy's analysis, on the merits or otherwise of the wares of the Wizard of Aahs, I can only conclude that these Baroni suits are worth what customers are charged for them - around $300 dollars.


Possibly you could you favor us with a recommendation in the $250 - $500 price range?


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Orsini said:


> Possibly you could you favor us with a recommendation in the $250 - $500 price range?


Well, Orsini, $300 dollars can get you TWO Ted Lapidus or Pierre Cardin made under license in Syria. I don't know whether these are sold anywhere other than the likes of the Arabian Gulf but for $150 dollars you get a 50% Super 120s wool with the balance being man- made. Very hard wearing and great for work. $300 dollars will get you 100% 120s wool. If you like all wool, but can't stretch to $300, then how about a Zignone Super 120s at $180 dollars? Note this is not a made-up Italian label, but the name of the mill which makes the fabric. Don't ask me about fusing and floating canvas and such like as all that is, sadly, as much Greek to me as it obviously is to the vendor of Baroni. However, I can say that all these suits are quite nice and seem to compare well to suits that cost quite a lot more.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

People can say what they will about Jo A. Bank but, it is the the only place I've found to buy a quite serviceable Blackwatch DJ for less than $50 (delivered to my door) and a few other items at equally surprising prices. When considering the purchase of items, I plan to use only on an incidental basis, Jo A. Bank is certainly a vendor to consider. However, when buying suits/sport-coats to be worn on a regular, recurring basis, JAB's suits just to not compare to the HSM and BB suits I've relied on over the years.


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## Jackdaws (May 28, 2008)

*Go BB!*

Your clothing dollar is better spent at Brooks Brothers. You can shop sales and get better clothes for less money.


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## SkySov (Mar 17, 2008)

Sorry, but even during BB's sales the price is not lower than JAB. But I have a question for discussion. Don't you think brands like BB charge a bit more for their name and where it's made? Perhaps if one believes BB is a better value, meaning that because an 1818 is $900 and a Sig Gold is $300 then BB is three times as good as JAB, there is some snobbery or some psychological mumbojumbo going on where the person isn't being objective? Maybe some here just have a bias towards regular people's brands and Chinese made stuff? Or they're being Internet elitists making posts in K-mart underwear?


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## joeyzaza (Dec 9, 2005)

Banks suits vary significantly in quality in price. However, at some points in the year, you can pick up a signature, signature gold or Joseph on sale for under $300 and this is a huge bargain. These are well made suits. Even the executives are decent quality for the price. My only criticism is they could use a little less padding in the shoulders. 

The cut and pattern used by Brooks Brothers is a better fit on my body type. But I do not bash Banks like others on this board.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

JAB suits don't fit me particularly well, except for the Joseph line. I got one of those a season or two back for like, $299, and think it's a good buy at that price.

In fact, I wish they'd start stocking the Joseph suits in some standard fabrics (plain dark gray super 110s, plain navy in same fabric, etc.) in addition to all the "fashion" checks and stripings they use now.

I'm old enough to remember shopping at JAB when the Baltimore-based chain was still manufacturing its own tailored clothing offerings in the USA. It was sort of the last vestige of the time, going back to the late 19th century, when Baltimore was a major center of menswear manufacturing. Now of course it's just a brand name and everything is made in Asia or Mexico, except for some of the nicer ties, which last time I checked were Italian-made.


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## suitsyousir (Aug 8, 2008)

SkySov said:


> Sorry, but even during BB's sales the price is not lower than JAB. But I have a question for discussion. Don't you think brands like BB charge a bit more for their name and where it's made? Perhaps if one believes BB is a better value, meaning that because an 1818 is $900 and a Sig Gold is $300 then BB is three times as good as JAB, there is some snobbery or some psychological mumbojumbo going on where the person isn't being objective? Maybe some here just have a bias towards regular people's brands and Chinese made stuff? Or they're being Internet elitists making posts in K-mart underwear?


Of course they charge for the brand. The bigger the brand, the greater the surcharge. But it's not just about fashion or snobbishness. Certain brands guarantee quality; the ability to walk into a store and feel confident that you're buying high quality is worth extra money. Of course, when BB's quality starts to slide it has a much more negative effect than on fashion-focused H&M.

Small outfits like J. Press charge low prices in comparison (at least on suits) because they occupy a niche market - high enough volume to buy relatively cheaply and hence set modest prices, but small enough to have insider status. And that's a little ironic, since J. Press clientele are going to have a higher average income than BB (not many students or young professionals wander in there).

JAB is all about bulk and to people who buy there, it's all about savings. People will buy at BB and say "I shop there because of the quality". I doubt you'll hear that about JAB. The problem with JAB is that you can't be sure whether that Sig suit will still be hanging in your closet ten years from now - let alone the cheaper wares. And as for the sig suits in particular, if you stick a diamond in the middle of coal, it's bound to become dirty. People will see it and not realize what a good piece of kit they're looking at.

People on this board value JAB at the low end because of the image JAB has decided to cultivate. They used to be more like BB. Now they're more like MW. It's their choice. Don't blame anyone here for that.

As for anti-Chinese bias, that's starting to go away. The cause was a mixture of anti-outsourcing and - more importantly - low quality output (oh, and perhaps the whole totalitarian-nationalist-government-which-brutally-suppresses-its-people-but-let's-face-it-the-Chinese-wouldn't-be-particularly-nice-if-they-were-a-democracy-either-ooh-did-someone-say-Japan-during-the-1930's thing). 
Every manufacturing industry needs time to learn the right techniques. China is pretty much there now. "Made in China" won't be as big a deal in future as simply consistent brand quality. That's BB's achilles heel right now - consistent brand quality, which means sourcing from the right factories. For JAB that's not just an achilles heel, it's a major concern.


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## Diggy18 (Apr 11, 2008)

Hector Freemantle said:


> Well, Orsini, $300 dollars can get you TWO Ted Lapidus or Pierre Cardin made under license in Syria. I don't know whether these are sold anywhere other than the likes of the Arabian Gulf but for $150 dollars you get a 50% Super 120s wool with the balance being man- made. . . . Don't ask me about fusing and floating canvas and such like as all that is


So $300 for the two suits plus $2,000 roundtrip flight, coming to $2,300 total, or $1,150 per suit. You're breaking the rules of our thought experiment. We're looking at suits for $300! I mean come on, extreme examples are inadmissible. I'm sure if you scour a Salvation Army shop enough times eventually you'll find a $2,000 suit for like $300 but that's not what we're talking about. (Or is it?) And I think the issue of canvassing and so on is a major factor in assessing the quality of th suit - at least that's what I've gathered from lurking on these boards



Hector Freemantle said:


> It's interesting how these made-up, sound like Italian 'boutique' names have become almost orthodox on this forum. After reading the long thread and Andy's analysis, on the merits or otherwise of the wares of the Wizard of Aahs, I can only conclude that these Baroni suits are worth what customers are charged for them - around $300 dollars.


:icon_pale: Haha, my ignorance has diluted my point, methinks. I didn't know Baroni was one of those made up Italian names. I should have said something like "Even though a *Zegna *at $600 might be a far better value than a JAB SigGold at $300, if you only have $300 to spend at the time then the question of which purchase is of greater value is moot."


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Terms like "quality" and "value" have different meanings to different people and often the difference boils down to specific individual needs. In other words, what is good, or perhaps best is a better word, for one may not be as good for another, depending on the situation. There is no one size fits all answer.

I wore a coat and tie for much of my working life but rarely wore a suit. These days in my semi-retirement I may wear a suit 5-6 times a year. I suspect that there are far, far more men like me than there are men wearing suits on a regular basis. In fact, most men probably only need one suit.

My guess is that most men like me do not go to Brooks Brothers for a suit nor do they get them off of ebay or any other online source. Most likely they go to JAB, Macy's, JC Penney, MW, or someplace similar. They buy their one suit to hang in the closet 99 percent of the time and are done with it. Most of them have little to no interest in spending either time or money on something that will rarely see the outside of the closet. Can they get something better with a little more effort? Sure they can but it just isn't a big deal for them.

My point is that stores like JAB serves the needs of many, many ordinary men like me. Actually I have never bought anything from JAB, but I mean stores like it. That's their customer base and it's a much larger base than the typical AAAC participant base. 

And like I've said before, that guy buying a suit at JAB probably has something else in his life that he devotes as much time, money, and attention to detail toward as most folks here do with clothing; and I'll bet that it is a passion, whatever it may be, that many here would not share. 

For example, think of the guy in the $2000 suit taking pictures with a $7 disposable camera from the drug store and contrast that with the photography buff in a J.C. Penney suit taking pictures with $2000 worth of gear. It's all about what floats each person's individual boat.

Cruiser


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Diggy18 said:


> So $300 for the two suits plus $2,000 roundtrip flight, coming to $2,300 total, or $1,150 per suit. You're breaking the rules of our thought experiment. We're looking at suits for $300!


Well, this is where I live Diggy. For me there's no round trip, But seriously, I'm sure you can find lots of suits that are cheap and cheerful as are Baroni without travelling to Dubai! I didn't inspect them very carefully but there were suits on sale on Younge Street in Toronto for $99 the other week.



Diggy18 said:


> And I think the issue of canvassing and so on is a major factor in assessing the quality of th suit - at least that's what I've gathered from lurking on these boards


Well it might be. But the Wizard of Aahs seemed totally confused about how his suits weere made and as far as I know no-one has actually cut them up and looked. Hang on a minute, wasn't the final conclusion that there was no fusing or canvas at all in some places - just the cloth and the lining? But as I say, this is Greek to me and in my experience the test of how well a jacket is made is only apparent after you've been caught in the rain or had the thing dry cleaned after which some of them seem to - if not actually fall apart - to at least no longer have the crispness that they had before.



Diggy18 said:


> :icon_pale: Haha, my ignorance has diluted my point, methinks. I didn't know Baroni was one of those made up Italian names.


Yes that's precisely the point. These sounds- like names really are insidious. But thanks to this forum it would appear that Baroni (and Marco Valentino!) are becoming bona fide labels. I'm in two minds to contact the maker of the Canalli (sic) suit I saw today and see what it would go for on e bay!


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Hector Freemantle said:


> Well, Orsini, $300 dollars can get you TWO Ted Lapidus or Pierre Cardin made under license in Syria. I don't know whether these are sold anywhere other than the likes of the Arabian Gulf but for $150 dollars you get a 50% Super 120s wool with the balance being man- made. Very hard wearing and great for work. $300 dollars will get you 100% 120s wool. If you like all wool, but can't stretch to $300, then how about a Zignone Super 120s at $180 dollars? Note this is not a made-up Italian label, but the name of the mill which makes the fabric. Don't ask me about fusing and floating canvas and such like as all that is, sadly, as much Greek to me as it obviously is to the vendor of Baroni. However, I can say that all these suits are quite nice and seem to compare well to suits that cost quite a lot more.


Thank you. Yes, I definitely prefer wool or wool/cashmere. I had never heard of Zignone. I may look for that in the furure. Hopefully, by that tme I will have worked my way back up to the curb again, in which case I will drop cheap duds like a hot potato!


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## T-Bag (Jun 16, 2008)

I'll tell you what, given my occupation - I am hard on suits and I can't see spending crazy dollars for one that may get ruined. Because of that, and the customer service that I've always received - I buy the majority of my suits at JAB. As has been stated before, if the fit is correct - you are ahead 95% of the time.

I went to the mall today, found a nice looking JAB Signature that "retailed" for $795. Now I wouldn't pay full retail for one of their suits if you made me, but with some of their crazy sales - it sometimes makes sense. I picked it up for $149 + alterations to the jacket + tax and walked out around $180 for a damn nice suit. Not Oxxford, not Brioni - but serviceable and practical for MY needs. Even I have been looking at some Zengas for $500 and Hickey Freeman for $600 (found some _decent_ deals in Orlando), I'm not certain I'd rather have 1 of those over 2-4 JAB Signatures or Signature Golds. . .

My last 3 suits from JAB have come in at the $150ish mark. I almost pulled the trigger on a Signature Gold today for the same price but my wife talked me out of it (I got suckered into wanting it because it was a Signature Gold for $150, not because I liked it).

So given the "true" price point of JAB (not $500-1000, but $150-400), since they are ALWAYS on sale - they are not a bad deal and can hold their own. Tell me where I can find a Signature or Signature Gold quality for $150 and I'm all in.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Orsini said:


> ...Hopefully, by that tme I will have worked my way back up to the curb again, in which case I will drop cheap duds like a hot potato!


I've often wondered how long the thrill of owning a pair of bespoke John Lobb's would last. Until the heel started to show wear I guess!


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Hector Freemantle said:


> I've often wondered how long the thrill of owning a pair of bespoke John Lobb's would last. Until the heel started to show wear I guess!


I always find it depressing to see the first marks on my AE's soles.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

brokencycle said:


> I always find it depressing to see the first marks on my AE's soles.


That's why I Topy mine. They go to the cobbler shiny and fragrant and come back ... well a little bit mutilated I suppose, but I do find that preferable to what happens to a none -topeyed leather sole. And there's the nice warm secure feeling that when required it can be done again... and again, and again. Look after the uppers and the heels and they are yours for life.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Hector Freemantle said:


> I've often wondered how long the thrill of owning a pair of bespoke John Lobb's would last. Until the heel started to show wear I guess!


 I have no idea what this has to do with my comment, but have a nice day.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Hector Freemantle said:


> That's why I Topy mine. They go to the cobbler shiny and fragrant and come back ... well a little bit mutilated I suppose, but I do find that preferable to what happens to a none -topeyed leather sole. And there's the nice warm secure feeling that when required it can be done again... and again, and again. Look after the uppers and the heels and they are yours for life.


Toppers? You're not talking about heel and toe taps are you?


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Not 'topper', but 'topy' - a very thin hard-wearing sole protector that you put on top of new leather soles. Naturally, manufacturers don't like them saying they can damage the shoe by throwing them off-balance. Some manufacturers put them on as standard to save you slipping all over the place. To me it's a better alternative to those combination leather soles with rubber inserts that even relatively high- end shoe makers are now using on some shoes.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Orsini said:


> I have no idea what this has to do with my comment, but have a nice day.


You have a nice day, too ,Orsini. I would have thought the meaning of my post was obvious. You were saying that once you became wealthier again you would stop buying comparatively rubbish suits such as Baroni and the like and get back to the swell stuff. Quality shoes are the thing that I like and bespoke Lobb are about as high end as you get. It then occurred to me that any purchase starts to lose perceived value once the item becomes worn. Obviously that was one lateral step too many. Sorry.


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## archon (Jul 28, 2008)

I don't mind JAB. Employees are not overly helpful and their wild sales that result in huge price disparities on the same item from week to week are slightly annoying and make it real hard to know exactly when to buy.

I have a few items from the Traveller's line that I take on business trips. It is not the most high quality fabric, but it does the job on business travel. It stays fresh, relatively wrinkle free, and best of all the wrinkles easily fall out when just hung up for a few hours.

As far as standard coporate non-executive business dress goes, I think JAB is a good "one stop shop" place. I'm in my suits, dress shirts, slacks and sportscoasts for 12-18 hours a day and need quality at a reasonable price. If I ever get that Vice President title though, I will probably stop shopping there for my day to day business wear.


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## Fuzzypuppy (Mar 30, 2008)

Hector, with all due respect - you're talking out of your ass. You say you don't know anything about fusing versus canvassing, yet you are comparing Jeff's suits to $99 Yonge Street specials. Your entire argument lacks any perspective on quality, and hence value. Instead, your only reference point appears to be price.

I don't know a thing about any of the brands you buy in the Gulf. Therefore, I won't speculate.

I can't speak to the Baronis, but personally my experience has been that Jeff's Marco Valentinos are incomparably better than anything I've purchased from JAB, much earlier in life.



Hector Freemantle said:


> Well, this is where I live Diggy. For me there's no round trip, But seriously, I'm sure you can find lots of suits that are cheap and cheerful as are Baroni without travelling to Dubai! I didn't inspect them very carefully but there were suits on sale on Younge Street in Toronto for $99 the other week.
> 
> Well it might be. But the Wizard of Aahs seemed totally confused about how his suits weere made and as far as I know no-one has actually cut them up and looked. Hang on a minute, wasn't the final conclusion that there was no fusing or canvas at all in some places - just the cloth and the lining? But as I say, this is Greek to me and in my experience the test of how well a jacket is made is only apparent after you've been caught in the rain or had the thing dry cleaned after which some of them seem to - if not actually fall apart - to at least no longer have the crispness that they had before.
> 
> Yes that's precisely the point. These sounds- like names really are insidious. But thanks to this forum it would appear that Baroni (and Marco Valentino!) are becoming bona fide labels. I'm in two minds to contact the maker of the Canalli (sic) suit I saw today and see what it would go for on e bay!


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Fuzzypuppy said:


> Hector, with all due respect - you're talking out of your ass.


Thank you for your kind words. But please calm down.



Fuzzypuppy said:


> You say you don't know anything about fusing versus canvassing, yet you are comparing Jeff's suits to $99 Yonge Street specials.


Read the very long thread regarding these suits, and you'll see that Jeff doesn't know anything either or doesn't care.

And unless you've had any of these suits dry cleaned - when the quality of the construction really matters - it's pretty academic what goes on on inside the suit.

Unless you saw these '$99 Yonge Street specials' how do you know they aren't comparable?



Fuzzypuppy said:


> Your entire argument lacks any perspective on quality, and hence value. Instead, your only reference point appears to be price.
> 
> I don't know a thing about any of the brands you buy in the Gulf. Therefore, I won't speculate.


Well seeing as I _do _know about the brands available in the Gulf is terms of quality and apparent value my argument is obviously _not_ only based on price.



Fuzzypuppy said:


> I can't speak to the Baronis, but personally my experience has been that Jeff's Marco Valentinos are incomparably better than anything I've purchased from JAB, much earlier in life.


I'm pleased that you are happy with your purchases. But please try not be so emotional about this. We are talking about cheap suits, here. All I'm saying is that there plenty of these about with a reasonable quality. And I'm sure Jeff would be the first to agree with me.


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## Fuzzypuppy (Mar 30, 2008)

Hector Freemantle said:


> Thank you for your kind words. But please calm down.
> 
> Unless you saw these '$99 Yonge Street specials' how do you know they aren't comparable?


Far from being "emotional", I was quite calmly pointing out that you are talking out of your ass.

I have been to Toronto many times. As I've pointed out in the past, I lived in a number of Canadian cities, Toronto being one of them. While I can't speak to the particular suits you referenced, I can indeed attest to the fact that the vast majority of the ones being sold at that price point are not worth even that discounted price.

Also, I spend a good deal of time in the Gulf states in my line of work (and my prior one), and so can profess to knowing something about the retail landscape there. What I cannot do, is weigh in on the particular brands you reference, and so unlike you I will not attempt to do so.

I will recap.

1. You came in, slagged a seller who has overcome quite a bit of distrust about the quality of his wares (if you read the original speculation on Baroni you'll see most people reacted the way I did - $300 eBay suits with pseudo-ripoff brand names? Junk!), who now receives almost universal acclaim on the value of his suits.

2. You then said you have no knowledge of fusing versus canvassing or any of the other aspects that contribute to the underlying quality question.

3. You mention a number of nameless $99 suits on Yonge Street, which many of us *do* know are rubbish.

4. You name a number of brands in the Gulf which most of us are not familiar with but provide us with no reason to believe they are either high quality or high value.

I think my (calm) assessment that "you are talking out of your ass" is warranted, and I'm going to stick by that.

:icon_smile:


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Tonyp said:


> Frankly, I don't have it in for JAB either. I just don't like the cut or style of their clothing. I prefer Italian cut and higher quality clothes. I have nothing against getting a decent suit, SC, etc...at a good price, I just prefer a different style.


+1

I think JAB is pretty nice. I agree with others, though, in that I simply don't like most of their styles - just not the cuts that I look for. I have a fair amount of clothing from them, though, that I got a few years back when I first started working. It has held up very very well. Most of it much better than suff I have from Brooks. And when I find something there that has styling I like I snap it up. Tremendous value when purchased at sale prices.


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

I've held off weighing in here, but Fuzzy Puppy has offered an analysis that I can support.

I'll just add the JAB can present tremendous value at times. (29 bucks for a Madras coat OR a genuine Harris Tweed *is* tremendous value.)

The fact that it can *not* present "industry best" quality should really surprise nobody. This is not rocket science.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Fuzzypuppy said:


> Also, I spend a good deal of time in the Gulf states in my line of work (and my prior one), and so can profess to knowing something about the retail landscape there. What I cannot do, is weigh in on the particular brands you reference, and so unlike you I will not attempt to do so.


I think I mentioned 3 brands. These were Ted Lapidus, Pierre Cardin and Zignone: all mentioned in response to another poster's request for other brands at the Baroni price point to compete with the garments offered by JAB. I won't rave about their quality other then to say that they are very nice and very cheap and good value for money.
The first two are I think fairly well-known names and the latter is a known Italian fabric mill which can be easily googled.

As I stated, all of these offer suits at prices way below the made-up Baroni and M. Valentino brands that as I mentioned earlier seem now to have become spoken of as if they were not just made-up names.

I'm not saying that these are NOT worth $300 dollars: they might be. I applaud their purveyor for having marketed them so successfully that they have become a reference brand on this forum ,on a par with established brands. The point I'm making, one last time, is that the world's a big place and there are lots of good cheap suits around and we oughtn't to get so easily beguiled by those that are presented so cleverly that some people believe that Brioni and Baroni are one and the same thing.

I stick with my suggestion that you are being emotional about this. We rarely accuse people of talking out of their backsides unless we have been 'moved' in some way. In this instance, it seems to be because you own a suit and feel some loyalty towards it. Once again, I'm pleased that you like it.


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## cornelianifan (Dec 30, 2006)

I never quite understand either why JAB gets kicked around so much. I find them quite useful as a source of decent long rise trousers. I am aware of know other long rise trousers available that offer the same value as JAB Signatures on deep discount for $50 or less. My tux, which I probably wear 4 times a year, is also JAB. Right out of grad school I bought a lot of JAB Sig suits, and they lasted quite well. As stated elsewhere, you cannot go wrong pulling the triggers on these when they are $250, and they are miles ahead of anything else you can get at this price (at least in standard navy/gray/charcoal/pinstripe and not wild colors). 

In regard to BB v JAB, the notion that BB is somehow incredible and superior quality while JAB is cheap junk is quite a bit of bunk. BB is marginially more expensive and offers a marginally better quality, but in my view the overall dollar-for-dollar value is quite similar. And some JAB lines (like Sig Gold) are clearly superior to the lowest BB line. No company seems to slide by on reputation more than BB. I can't associate shirt lines comprised mainly of non-iron schlock as tantamount to extraordinary quality. 

BB seems to fill a similar niche to Nordstrom: Just enough snobbery to make the average upper middle class shopper feel he is special, but really not much of a cut above the supposed de classe competition at the next rung down.


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## Fuzzypuppy (Mar 30, 2008)

Hector Freemantle said:


> I stick with my suggestion that you are being emotional about this. We rarely accuse people of talking out of their backsides unless we have been 'moved' in some way. In this instance, it seems to be because you own a suit and feel some loyalty towards it. Once again, I'm pleased that you like it.


Hehe, I'll admit my wording was perhaps a bit forceful (a sin which I will concede I can be rightfully accused of). It perhaps comes from a culture, both in the service and in finance, where we are accustomed to not taking such things personally. In the spirit of not making this something it's not, let's call a truce and get back to bad-mouthing Jos A. Bank.



Actually, I don't mind JAB for what it is, except that in my mind it's not a particularly great bargain even on sale, and that none of their stuff fits me.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

Fuzzypuppy said:


> Hehe, I'll admit my wording was perhaps a bit forceful (a sin which I will concede I can be rightfully accused of). It perhaps comes from a culture, both in the service and in finance, where we are accustomed to not taking such things personally. In the spirit of not making this something it's not, let's call a truce and get back to bad-mouthing Jos A. Bank.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, I don't mind JAB for what it is, except that in my mind it's not a particularly great bargain even on sale, and that none of their stuff fits me.


 Ok. I can recognise an apology as well as the next man - regardless of how it's presented.

With regard to Jos A Banks: while never having purchased from them myself, they do seem to me to fill a spot ( as others have pointed out) 
in the menswear spectrum that no-one else fills in precisely the same way, and it's this that accounts for their success in the business.


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## JRock80 (Mar 13, 2008)

I for one, shop Banks frequently! I find "some" of their merchandise a great value. Example Signature Gold Suites for $250, Various Sportcoats for $99 or less. Signature ties on clearance for $20. Non Iron Shirts for $37.50 or less. Signature Tuxedo's great value. These are some of the things that are great values and can beat out BB in terms of value. Quality is relevant to the individual. I own HF suits, and JAB suits and can honestly not tell the difference between the two. I take my time in purchasing my suits and pick patterns and colors that complement my style. Some of the better compliments I have received have been in a JAB suit. 

I believe one can look good for less. Yes I can spend $1500 or more on a suit if I want to, I just don't see the point, when the difference is marginally discernable.


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## micahb2002 (Sep 15, 2007)

I have a JAB executive suit from which a coat button fell off during the first wear, and the pocket tore on the second wear. I only paid $100ish for the suit, but I won't buy executive again. I bought a "stays cool" tweed suit the other day for $169, only because it was brown tweed that I liked. Both coats will make good sportcoats when the pants break.

I have a JAB sig gold I recently bought for $300, and it appears to be very good quality. It feels half-canvassed as well, and is 100% wool. 

I own BB 1818 and two Hickey Freeman Collection that I got on sale, and I find that the JABs are worth proportionally about what they are on sale as the 1818s when they are on sale. JAB is a step down in quality but in price as well. Hickey Collection is much better value IMO when it can be found at Nordstroms Rack, but finding it in a decent style is difficult.


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## Mathew J (Mar 31, 2007)

I have one executive suit from there, it was cheap and it seems ok but worth about what I paid for it ($200).

I regularly buy their non iron travellers shirts on clearance for about $30 or so...

The one thing I like about the place is that it is a dedicated mens clothing store, which makes shopping alot easier than some of the department stores.

the clothes seem to hold up ok, look conservative, and are cheap all things considered (when I last looked nordstrom was charging $60+ for basic non iron dress shirts).

they aren't anything spectacular, but they make shopping easy for me and the price is usually right. Personally I put them a few notches above the mens warehouse but that might just be my totally unfounded opinion as I have never shopped in a mens warehouse.

Brooks stuff is a bit nicer and almost the same price when on sale, but Brooks doesn't discount nearly as often as Banks, and the shirts I find are pretty close in durability.


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## welldressedfellow (May 28, 2008)

Mathew J said:


> I have one executive suit from there, it was cheap and it seems ok but worth about what I paid for it ($200).
> 
> I regularly buy their non iron travellers shirts on clearance for about $30 or so...
> 
> ...


I had completely forgotten about this thread.


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## Mathew J (Mar 31, 2007)

welldressedfellow said:


> I had completely forgotten about this thread.


Sorry, for some reason I was curious on the perception of JAB and this thread jumped out at me.


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## GrumF14 (Aug 25, 2008)

What's the breakdown of the quality of the JoS A. Bank lines? I feel like this was posted elsewhere, but even doing a search, I couldn't find it. What are the quality levels (preferably in the order they get better/worse) and what are they comparative to in other brands?

On a random side note, it turns out I also know the Chairman of the company, and had no idea until this evening. Weird.


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## topbroker (Jul 30, 2006)

GrumF14 said:


> What's the breakdown of the quality of the JoS A. Bank lines? I feel like this was posted elsewhere, but even doing a search, I couldn't find it. What are the quality levels (preferably in the order they get better/worse) and what are they comparative to in other brands?
> 
> On a random side note, it turns out I also know the Chairman of the company, and had no idea until this evening. Weird.


They might be in trouble. I read online a few days ago that people were shorting their stock:


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## mczewd (Jul 21, 2008)

SkySov said:


> Sorry, but even during BB's sales the price is not lower than JAB. But I have a question for discussion. Don't you think brands like BB charge a bit more for their name and where it's made? Perhaps if one believes BB is a better value, meaning that because an 1818 is $900 and a Sig Gold is $300 then BB is three times as good as JAB, there is some snobbery or some psychological mumbojumbo going on where the person isn't being objective? Maybe some here just have a bias towards regular people's brands and Chinese made stuff? Or they're being Internet elitists making posts in K-mart underwear?


I have purchased several pairs of dress slacks at JAB that work quite well for looking sharp at the office. However, I once purchased a suit there. While I was waiting the usual few days for the alterations to be made I stopped by Brooks Brothers and tried on their separates. The fit was much better for me; less boxy. I called JAB and told them to stop the presses and bought the BB.

On the other hand, I have a JAB tux that does the job for me quite well considering it was purchased on sale for $249. In fact, at this moment they have a sale on dinner jackets for $129.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Now that this thread is back, I'll offer an answer to the frequently posed question of "What else would you recommend?"

At the sub $500 price point, Polo's upper-end blue label suits, the ones made in Italy, can be had easily, either through eBay, outlets or larger discount stores such as Marshall's. Usually they sell for about $400-$500, down from $1,200 and up. Solids are harder to find, but not impossible. These are half-canvas but well made.

Marshall's and STP also often have great deals on Corneliani. Striped mainline Cornelianis -- full canvas construction, some handwork -- can be had commonly for $500 or less. Again, solids are more elusive, but can be found for $700 or less with some looking. These are great suits even setting aside the discount price. 

Canalis are less common at Marshall's, but they show up, too. Most Saks Off-Fifth will have Hickey Freeman and other brands, and sale prices will regularly knock the asking price below $500.

You can even find Brooks Golden Fleece for $500 with some looking. I'm selling some now over at StyleForum for less than $400 once you factor in Live.com's cashback offer. The buying and selling forum there produces many great bargains.

Other brands I've bought NWT for $500 or less include mainline Zegna (solid navy) and suits from both Ralph Lauren's Black and Signature lines.

Now, if you want to walk into a retail store and buy a suit off the rack, no hassle or fuss, for less than $500, your options are going to be limited. But if you're willing to do a bit of legwork, good bargains are waiting to be found. And as the economy tanks, I imagine such bargains will only become all the more common.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

GrumF14 said:


> What's the breakdown of the quality of the JoS A. Bank lines? I feel like this was posted elsewhere, but even doing a search, I couldn't find it. What are the quality levels (preferably in the order they get better/worse) and what are they comparative to in other brands?
> 
> On a random side note, it turns out I also know the Chairman of the company, and had no idea until this evening. Weird.


In order:

Signature Gold > Signature/Joseph > Traveller's > Executive/Business Express

The siganture gold suit is a 120's wool, with pick stitching and all that. The signature gold shirts are a 2ply 120's cotton - they are now wrinkle free.

Signature suits are a 110's wool, with more details than all other lines except signature gold.
Signature shirts are a 2ply 100's cotton.

Joseph suits are also 110's wool, have pick stitching and are a trimmer fit.
Joseph shirts are not wrinkle free, but a 100's fabric.

Traveller suits are a 100's fabric that are wrinkle and stain resistant.
Traveller's shirts are a 2ply 80's wrinkle free. It is the best selling shirt at JAB.

Executive suits are a 100's wool and lack any of the above characteristics.
Executive shirts are 80's two ply but not wrinkle free.

There are also business express suits, which are separates and are similar to the executives.



DocHolliday said:


> Now that this thread is back, I'll offer an answer to the frequently posed question of "What else would you recommend?"
> 
> At the sub $500 price point, Polo's upper-end blue label suits, the ones made in Italy, can be had easily, either through eBay, outlets or larger discount stores such as Marshall's. Usually they sell for about $400-$500, down from $1,200 and up. Solids are harder to find, but not impossible. These are half-canvas but well made.
> 
> ...


A lot of us don't have access to the outlet stores though. Personally, I wish I did.


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## skillet (Aug 28, 2007)

Brokencycle,
I know the Sig Gold's are much fuller-fitting than the Joseph line suits, but what about the regular Signature suits? Is there any fit difference between the Sig's and the Sig Gold's? Also, any idea if JAB ever plans to offer their Signature or athletic-cut dress shirts in tall sizes? Thanks for the info.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

skillet said:


> Brokencycle,
> I know the Sig Gold's are much fuller-fitting than the Joseph line suits, but what about the regular Signature suits? Is there any fit difference between the Sig's and the Sig Gold's? Also, any idea if JAB ever plans to offer their Signature or athletic-cut dress shirts in tall sizes? Thanks for the info.


The signature and signature gold suits are slimmer than executives but more full cut than the Joseph. I believe them to be cut about the same.

As for shirts, I can ask, but I wouldn't expect a response. Nothing ever gets very far.


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## bwridge (Feb 20, 2006)

I find JAB to be more than adequate for my needs. I already have some tailored suits made so I go to JAB to spice up my business casual wardrobe. I have some decent slacks and a couple of nice blazers I bought that fit well and look nice. SUre, it's not the highest quality gear, but it looks decent and can be found at a good price if one is careful about shopping there.

As for the complaints abotu service, I shop at the Lynnwood,WA store and found the staff to be quite friendly, helpful, and knowledgabel.

BRian


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## Mathew J (Mar 31, 2007)

brokencycle said:


> The signature and signature gold suits are slimmer than executives but more full cut than the Joseph. I believe them to be cut about the same.
> 
> As for shirts, I can ask, but I wouldn't expect a response. Nothing ever gets very far.


This is most likely why I preferred the executive in cut to the sig gold I tried on, I just prefer a "full cut" vs more form fitting.


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## THORVALD (Jan 30, 2007)

*JAB Today*

Years ago when JAB was a Baltimore Metro
area company they had less stores, allowing
themselves to staff those less stores with 
professional clothing salesman. Plus in those
days their style of clothing was more in line
with mainstream mens dress business fashions.

Today, a larger expanded national company, with 
lots of stores. Hence less pro-sales staff to spread 
around. Mens business fashions today !

Thorvald


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## epfunk (Sep 14, 2006)

i just don't like the marketing. everything's on sale all the time. has anyone ever actually bought anything there at full price?


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## Mathew J (Mar 31, 2007)

epfunk said:


> i just don't like the marketing. everything's on sale all the time. has anyone ever actually bought anything there at full price?


Actually I prefer it to brooks model of only 25% off occasionally and you need to use their card...I just wish JAB would keep their sale prices all the time instead of making you wait for it.


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## mysharona (Nov 4, 2008)

*suggestion*

Get a hand-made, fully canvassed suit from Astor & Black. The sales rep will come to your home or office and fit you. I got one with Versace fabric for under $700. They also have fabric by Zegna, Dormeuil, Loro Piana, and Scabal (Brioni), among others. Best bang for the buck.
www.astor&black.com. They are all over Ohio and have a Charlotte, NC rep as well for the fella that started this thread.


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## THORVALD (Jan 30, 2007)

*JAB Purchase*

Today was the last day of ANOTHER
JAB sale of the moment so to speak.
Bought two pair of pleated charcoal 
wool slacks list @ $150.00/pr. .
With sale price & $25.00 off came
to $49.00/pr..

JAB way OVER $$$ with way too much
inventory. IMO they over expanded 
on a national basis & starting in 2009,
things could get rough for this chain.

Thorvald


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## welldressedfellow (May 28, 2008)

mysharona said:


> Get a hand-made, fully canvassed suit from Astor & Black. The sales rep will come to your home or office and fit you. I got one with Versace fabric for under $700. They also have fabric by Zegna, Dormeuil, Loro Piana, and Scabal (Brioni), among others. Best bang for the buck.
> www.astor&black.com. They are all over Ohio and have a Charlotte, NC rep as well for the fella that started this thread.


Link won't work.Thanks though.Glad to see another North Carolinian on here.


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## LVP (Jun 28, 2008)

epfunk said:


> i just don't like the marketing. everything's on sale all the time. has anyone ever actually bought anything there at full price?


I'm sure many people are sucked in by the suit deals and are "sold into" buying full price shirts and ties at the same time, which is exactly what they want you to do. Are any of these people members of this site? Probably not many, and I would guess a good percentage wouldn't do it again.

Not sure if this is what you mean by marketing but I find their radio spots very annoying.


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## Diggy18 (Apr 11, 2008)

welldressedfellow said:


> Link won't work.Thanks though.Glad to see another North Carolinian on here.


It's actually:

www.astorandblack.com


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

epfunk said:


> i just don't like the marketing. everything's on sale all the time. has anyone ever actually bought anything there at full price?


I did once. I was under a time constraint.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Today's ads were buy one get two free. If this isn't indicative of a bailout waiting to happen I don't know what is. Don't know how long this sale lasts but given my limited grasp of retailing math I don't think they'll make it up in volume.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Actually, if you look at the publicly available date (like 3Q earnings) JAB made money. They're trying to take market share from places like Men's Wearhouse and Macy's which are struggling.

And yes, the goal is, by having people come in and buy stuff that is significantly marked down, they will buy other stuff. That's why the store is almost never 50% off the entire store (only twice a year).

And don't fool yourselves and say BB hasn't been doing similar stuff lately. I get an email from them on at least a weekly basis about some sale. It is always Friends & Family, or Semi-Annual sale, or extra off clearance, or made to measure event, or something. Less sales than JAB, but still quite frequent in the past 18 months.


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## apachecadillac (Nov 15, 2008)

I get emails almost daily from BB and JAB (I'm on both mailing lists). The two chains seem to have very similar marketing strategies. I think Friends and Family at one means Preferred Customer at the other, and Special Event at either means here we go again.

My sense is that in terms of price points, JAB lines are marginally cheaper than BB, and that JAB peters out, in terms of quality, at about the 1818 suit quality level at BB. In other words, JAB gives BB a run for the money at the factory outlet store and entry level mainstream stores points, but JAB doesn't offer a response to the better BB stuff.

That said, I remember hearing somewhere that as a general matter you can buy quite a good suit for $700-800, which, interestingly, is a bit less than list price for either BB 1818 or JAB signature gold suits, and a bit more than the street price. 

Sometimes I wonder if price points don't do more to dictate quality than label. That's not to say that there aren't deals and steals out there. But realistically, BB can put just so much quality into a factory outlet suit that has a street price of $250. Nordstrom's Rack may occasionally offer a great deal on a suit that runs $700 in a regular store (that price point again), but the suit was manufactured to the higher price point.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Jos. A. Banks....

You kinda suck.

I don't live near a JAB store, so I order through the internet. Their pictures are almost NEVER accurate in terms of color. Just now I received 2 Executive suits in that recent 2 for $300 deal. The grey they showed in photos is WAY lighter than the real product. This isn't the first time I got stung by the color problem at JAB. I've been lead to believe suits and other items were on the lighter half of the contrast spectrum, and in reality they are almost black.

Aside from that, the suits aren't too bad, but for $150 I have gotten better cut and better cloth from the cheap suits sites. In fact, I really love the 3 $99 "Italian" suits I got at one of those disaster sites with $99 conservative intro suits and lines of more progressive and expensive weird/off-center styled suits. Those $99 suits also came with far more pockets inside the jackets for cell phones or iPods, etc.

Put my vote, for the internet suit shopper, on the bargain basement Italian suit sites over the el-cheapo deals on JAB.

If you want an inexpensive thrash suit, you can find far better online than JAB. Save the cash. Go very cheap for your low end suits.



Matt S said:


> Their clothes are a decent value for the money, but... The clothes are average and style is bland...


I have to agree with this.


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## the420skipper (Mar 14, 2009)

I agree with the idea that their clothes are bland and the quality mediocre, but I don't think you can argue with the value they offer. 

For instance, while I didn't buy it, I remember someone pointing out that they offered a Blackwatch dinner jacket a while ago, for a very low price (for a dinner jacket, that is). At least at this point in my life, there's no way I would pay for a good quality Blackwatch dinner jacket, since I'd wear it maybe once or twice a year, but at $100-150, it's not a bad idea. They unfortunately don't have many of these examples, since most of their clothing is, like we've agreed, so bland.

But in terms of wardrobe staples, it is a good way to get cheap essentials if you know you're going to go through them quickly, or for some reason don't need good quality. I couldn't stomach buying my workhorse clothes at J.C. Penney or somewhere like some have suggested, but JAB is fine.


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## Bespoke Trout (Jun 1, 2008)

I don't care for the cuts and styles--mostly uninspiring single vent suits without much silhouette to them. More importantly, I've known an increasing number of people who find the suits fall apart after a year or two. 

I have bought their socks, however, without any problems.


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## MoosicPa (Jan 30, 2008)

*Jos. A. Bank*

I don't have a problem w/ JAB stores, I don't buy my suits there, but have purchased a couple of sports coats on sale, got a great deal on cashmere sweaters after Christmas, and will pick-up a tie or two there. Also I get my cedar shoe trees there. The quality is good for what you pay.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I had had no experience with JAB until they opened a store not too far from my digs about 18 months ago.

Contrary to what some have said here, I found their staff extremely friendly, eager and helpful.

Shop the sales right and good bargains and values can certainly be had there.

I recently bought my boy a Signature suit for $238 (before tax and alterations). It seemed like a good value to me, and he is very happy with it.

I also picked up a couple of pairs of Woodlore shoe trees there on sale at $15 each, which I consider a good price.

If you have a corporate card, which just about anyone with a paycheck can get, you can order A-E shoes for 20% off, which is worth noting.

Agree that anyone who pays full retail for all but the cheapest items at Banks is a sucker, but if you deal with them shrewdly, JAB is a decent resource, IMO.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Diggy18 said:


> I'm sure if you scour a Salvation Army shop enough times eventually you'll find a $2,000 suit for like $300 but that's not what we're talking about.


Dayum, that's an expensive Salvation Army.


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## NewYorker30 (Mar 20, 2008)

I've actually never shopped at a JAB store or even laid eyes on the outside of a JAB store before. It's not because I'm consciously elitist either because I had no idea JAB was even viewed negatively before reading this thread. Although I never purchased an item from JAB my father did give me a camel hair sports coat from Joseph A. Banks that he had but didn't want. Anyway, I have a different high quality camel hair sports coat that I compared it to quickly (I actually never wore the JAB sports coat before I just have it in my closet). The only noticeable difference in quality to me is that the higher end sports coat seems to have a higher quality lining in both material and construction around the inside pockets. I wouldn't say the JAB sports coat is of 'poor' quality overall though because of this difference. Granted this sports coat might be old from a time when they had higher quality items or whatever. I just don't know enough about JAB's history or when the garment I own was sold or made so I can't say much on this issue.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

NewYorker30 said:


> I've actually never shopped at a JAB store or even laid eyes on the outside of a JAB store before. It's not because I'm consciously elitist either because I had no idea JAB was even viewed negatively before reading this thread. Although I never purchased an item from JAB my father did give me a camel hair sports coat from Joseph A. Banks that he had but didn't want. Anyway, I have a different high quality camel hair sports coat that I compared it to quickly (I actually never wore the JAB sports coat before I just have it in my closet). The only noticeable difference in quality to me is that the higher end sports coat seems to have a higher quality lining in both material and construction around the inside pockets. I wouldn't say the JAB sports coat is of 'poor' quality overall though because of this difference. Granted this sports coat might be old from a time when they had higher quality items or whatever. I just don't know enough about JAB's history or when the garment I own was sold or made so I can't say much on this issue.


What's the country of manufacture given on the coat's label?

JAB is by origin Baltimore-based (main office is in suburban Hampstead now) and used to make most of its wares in its own Maryland workrooms. (Crabtown was a big center for the production of ready-made menswear going back to the 19th century.) About a decade or so ago, however, Bank abandoned US manufacture entirely and is now a brand selling offshore-made goods only. I was in a JAB store yesterday and noticed that whereas a few seasons ago they were carrying many ties labeled "Made in Italy," all their neckwear now seems to be Chinese-made.

On a positive note: Their thick maplewood suit hangers are a good deal at $15 per (indeed, a few seasons ago I got an armload for half off, a fantastic deal):

https://www.josbank.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=&pcount=&Product_Id=286576

During my visit yesterday I learned also that JAB honors its 20% anytime discount for Corporate Card holders on all the shoes it sells, meaning my next pair of Allen-Edmonds will be coming from Bank.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

PJC in NoVa said:


> What's the country of manufacture given on the coat's label?
> 
> JAB is by origin Baltimore-based (main office is in suburban Hampstead now) and used to make most of its wares in its own Maryland workrooms. (Crabtown was a big center for the production of ready-made menswear going back to the 19th century.) About a decade or so ago, however, Bank abandoned US manufacture entirely and is now a brand selling offshore-made goods only. I was in a JAB store yesterday and noticed that whereas a few seasons ago they were carrying many ties labeled "Made in Italy," all their neckwear now seems to be Chinese-made.
> 
> ...


Be careful with those hangers - I have seen a lot of returns on those, because they like to split.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

brokencycle said:


> Be careful with those hangers - I have seen a lot of returns on those, because they like to split.


Thanks for the warning. Mine seem to be holding up OK so far.


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## NewYorker30 (Mar 20, 2008)

PJC in NoVa said:


> What's the country of manufacture given on the coat's label?
> 
> JAB is by origin Baltimore-based (main office is in suburban Hampstead now) and used to make most of its wares in its own Maryland workrooms. (Crabtown was a big center for the production of ready-made menswear going back to the 19th century.) About a decade or so ago, however, Bank abandoned US manufacture entirely and is now a brand selling offshore-made goods only. I was in a JAB store yesterday and noticed that whereas a few seasons ago they were carrying many ties labeled "Made in Italy," all their neckwear now seems to be Chinese-made.
> 
> ...


I just checked one of the sports coat's inner pockets and found a label. The label said it was made in the USA by the textile workers union. So it does seem to be from a time when JAB was making higher quality products; If you are correct that is.


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## IgorK (Sep 29, 2005)

My last purchase which I have made on josbank.com, was 3-Button Harris Tweed Sportcoat. 
I have bought this sportcoat only for 65 dollars. 
When I have received my order I was very happy with the purchase. 
In my opinion very quite good sportcoat for such money.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

I have to admit I love their seersucker suits, which WERE CORRECTLY COLORED on the site. But, every suit or wool piece I have gotten has been far off color from photos provided on the site.


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## Benjamin NYC (Dec 28, 2006)

What is wrong with Jos. A. Bank? Their suits are tasteless and boring without being classic, their sales staff has no idea what they are talking about, their tailors are inept, and they will not stop sending me emails. I'm sure they are fine for socks or whatever, and maybe some of their basic ties there is nothing wrong with, but the whole gig overall is rather low-rent and pretentious. Just my $0.02


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## the420skipper (Mar 14, 2009)

IgorK said:


> My last purchase which I have made on josbank.com, was 3-Button Harris Tweed Sportcoat.
> I have bought this sportcoat only for 65 dollars.
> When I have received my order I was very happy with the purchase.
> In my opinion very quite good sportcoat for such money.


This is the perfect use of the company.


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## Pseudo Menjou (Apr 3, 2009)

I believe that JAB has some nice items that are perfectly appropriate for everyday business wear such as their dress shirts and sport coats. However, that is because I happen to have one of their stores nearby and I can go in and look at the merchandise before buying it. I recently took advantage of their 199/99 sale in which you can purchase a sale-priced sport coat for $199 and obtain a second one for $99. As a result, I came away with two coats for $298 that would have otherwise sold for around twice that amount at normal prices.


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## cwf1980 (Apr 18, 2008)

*Crazy like a fox*

With some suit makers declaring Chapter 11 (Hartmarx) it seems like Jos A Bank may being capitalizing during the economic downturn. If you own some Jos A Bank stock you can afford to buy some suits with the money you made today.

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB123922985729102791.html


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## APT (Nov 5, 2006)

The signature gold suits are not that bad. Decent quality and probably impossbile to go wrong at $400 on sale. Quick suit fix if you don't want to spend a lot of $$$ and need a suit yesterday. 

Having said that my search for a basic navy suit came to a halt today at the Nordstrom Rack where I found a Canali identical to what is sold in Pentagon City or Tysons. With the 35% off sale it came to $477!!!! 
It will compliment the HF blue pinstripe I bought on e-bay NWT for $275. 

Bargains are out there. But I can see where people do not have the time or paitence to look beyond JAB when suit shopping.


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## David A. (Mar 8, 2006)

*Knowing the JAB sale system*

Whenever JAB does an extra 50% off its clearance merchandise, it's very good value for the dollar -- but items may go in hours or even minutes.

I own a half-dozen, maybe more JAB dress shirts, all bought for $15-20 each, as well as various polos for around $10-$15. Signature wool trousers for $35-50.

Do I like my Hickey Freeman and Black Label clothes better? Sure. But I need enough clothes to wear every day.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

As a follow up, I have to relate that the 2 suits I got for $299 are pretty good. They aren't great, I am still bent by the color problem on the site, but they actually look ok, and are a truly good value for $150 each.

If the executive suits are similarly cut and made to higher end suits, I'm not sure there is a good reason to buy more expensive JAB suits. They are a little bland, but if you don't want to be a cubicle wallflower, they are perfect for you.

I still love their stay-cool seersucker suits, though the cut could be better with a little more pinch at the waist of the jackets.


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## Thewaxmania (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm wondering if anyone has any pictures of their JAB suits or themselves in said suits...I've never seen a photo on here of a JAB suit and I'd be interested to see how they look.


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## Sousaphil (Mar 8, 2009)

mysharona said:


> Get a hand-made, fully canvassed suit from Astor & Black. The sales rep will come to your home or office and fit you. I got one with Versace fabric for under $700. They also have fabric by Zegna, Dormeuil, Loro Piana, and Scabal (Brioni), among others. Best bang for the buck.
> www.astor&black.com. They are all over Ohio and have a Charlotte, NC rep as well for the fella that started this thread.


Can you please post a picture of yourself in the a&b suit? I've seen several a&b threads, yet none with any pictures.


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## Felix Krull (Dec 20, 2008)

The amount you spend on a suit is no different than the amount you spend on anything you place value upon. If clothing is very important to you and you love suits you will spend the money to get the quality and look you desire. If, on the other hand, you wear suits because you have to but you still want to look nice, you'll go to a department store or BB or JAB and try to maximize your purchasing dollar. 

I fall into the former category and even when I didn't have a lot of money I bought MTM and bespoke suits because I saw great value in buying clothes I'd still wear a decade later. In fact, I still have two suits that I commissioned in '98 and '99 that are still part of my regular rotation of nearly twenty suits. 

I always advise young people that one high quality custom suit (either MTM or bespoke) is worth two or three JAB or BB suits. It amazes me how college students and others will blow a grand on a laptop that will be obsolete in two years but only want to spend $300 on a suit that they will likely own for twice or thrice as long. 

You will be much better off if you do exactly the opposite, buy the most expensive suit you can afford and buy the cheapest computer/techno-gadget you can find.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Sousaphil said:


> Can you please post a picture of yourself in the a&b suit? I've seen several a&b threads, yet none with any pictures.


I doubt you will find another A&B picture thread after the last one.

That poor guy was lambasted over his shirt and suit, though what was shown looked awful in terms of tailoring to his form.


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## lookirishdressbritishtr (Apr 3, 2009)

David A. said:


> Whenever JAB does an extra 50% off its clearance merchandise, it's very good value for the dollar -- but items may go in hours or even minutes.
> .


In every store they can place online orders which are also 50% off. There is far more merchandise available online than in any of their stores. You can get sized in the store and then choose from any pattern/color/etc. online. 
Most of their stuff doesn't fit me at all (even with excessive alterations), but I do like their silk polo sweaters, socks, and some accessories. All of these are a steal at 50% off.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

On a side note, when working they had the silk and merino sweaters for B1G2, except in the store they were still ringing up for $34, so they were 3 for $34.


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## Grenadier (Dec 24, 2008)

Anyone have any opinion on their socks? They seem to have some nice patterns...


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## bbcrock (Feb 13, 2009)

lookirishdressbritishtradeyiddish said:


> In every store they can place online orders which are also 50% off. There is far more merchandise available online than in any of their stores. You can get sized in the store and then choose from any pattern/color/etc. online.
> Most of their stuff doesn't fit me at all (even with excessive alterations), but I do like their silk polo sweaters, socks, and some accessories. All of these are a steal at 50% off.


Yes, but in size 46 the sale suits at the president's day 50% off clearance were selling out by 10am ONLINE and I only received about 90% of my order. I wasn't overcharged, but by the time I checked out at least 25% of what I bought was backordered and I only got some of that.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Felix Krull said:


> If, on the other hand, you wear suits because you have to but you still want to look nice, you'll go to a department store or BB or JAB and try to maximize your purchasing dollar.


I understand what you mean if you are saying IF you have the means try bespoke/MTM. However, I can only speak for myself when I say I wear suits because I want to and I want to look nice and I believe the entry level suits at BB, although not bespoke are certainly above the quality one would find at JAB or any department store IMHO.

Certainly you are not putting BB on the same level as JAB or department stores.

Danny


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Claybuster said:


> I understand what you mean if you are saying IF you have the means try bespoke/MTM. However, I can only speak for myself when I say I wear suits because I want to and I want to look nice and I believe the entry level suits at BB, although not bespoke are certainly above the quality one would find at JAB or any department store IMHO.
> 
> Certainly you are not putting BB on the same level as JAB or department stores.
> 
> Danny


Personally, I think Brooks Brothers is a bit overrated. Do I like their 1818 and Golden Fleece stuff? Yes.

I don't think the entry level Brooksease is anything spectacular. I don't see it being better than a JAB signature or sig gold.



azlawstudent said:


> Anyone have any opinion on their socks? They seem to have some nice patterns...


get them at the Super Tuesday sale before Father's Day. At 50% off +$25/$100 spent. Wool OTC socks for like $8 is a good deal. They hold up pretty well as well.


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## Felix Krull (Dec 20, 2008)

Claybuster said:


> I understand what you mean if you are saying IF you have the means try bespoke/MTM. However, I can only speak for myself when I say I wear suits because I want to and I want to look nice and I believe the entry level suits at BB, although not bespoke are certainly above the quality one would find at JAB or any department store IMHO.
> 
> Certainly you are not putting BB on the same level as JAB or department stores.
> 
> Danny


Brooks Brothers is a ubiquitous retailer, like JAB and department stores. That was what I meant. Some department stores, like Neiman, for example, carry suits that are far above Brooks Brothers. Other department stores, like Dillards, carry a few brands that I think are roughly in line with much of what Brooks Brothers makes.

My point was that if you need a suit for work or some other mandatory function, then you are most likely going to go to one of these ubiquitous retailers to make your purchase out of convenience. If, on the other hand, you love suits and wear them for business as well as a variety of social engagements, as I do, then you will likely find yourself a tailor or a good MTM service.


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## bossman08 (Apr 26, 2009)

Would people agree that a well-tailored JAB sportscoat or suit would look equal to a Brooks Brothers suit? I don't think the 'cut' can be used as an excuse to frown upon JAB...we all know a good tailor can go a long ways.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

bossman08 said:


> I don't think the 'cut' can be used as an excuse to frown upon JAB...we all know a good tailor can go a long ways.


Yes, but a good tailor can't go everywhere.

If you are doing some typical stuff like arm length and waist on a jacket, yes, you can get a lot more from a JAB suit for the price when compared to other suits. The two suits I purchased recently for $150/ea. are quite a steal.

Don't get carried away, though. JAB suits aren't very luxurious, but you can look very good in them with some tailoring.

I can't comment on longevity yet, but their suits are comfortable to me.


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## jcrog (May 29, 2009)

I am thinking of getting a Signature Suit (Separates) for $199. I just need the suit for weddings and funerals and am not looking to spent alot.

thoughts?


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## bbcrock (Feb 13, 2009)

Felix Krull said:


> ...
> 
> I always advise young people that one high quality custom suit (either MTM or bespoke) is worth two or three JAB or BB suits. It amazes me how college students and others will blow a grand on a laptop that will be obsolete in two years but only want to spend $300 on a suit that they will likely own for twice or thrice as long.
> 
> You will be much better off if you do exactly the opposite, buy the most expensive suit you can afford and buy the cheapest computer/techno-gadget you can find.


You are amazed by this? I would put owning a laptop equal to owning a house or car.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Felix Krull said:


> The amount you spend on a suit is no different than the amount you spend on anything you place value upon. If clothing is very important to you and you love suits you will spend the money to get the quality and look you desire. If, on the other hand, you wear suits because you have to but you still want to look nice, you'll go to a department store or BB or JAB and try to maximize your purchasing dollar.
> 
> I fall into the former category and even when I didn't have a lot of money I bought MTM and bespoke suits because I saw great value in buying clothes I'd still wear a decade later. In fact, I still have two suits that I commissioned in '98 and '99 that are still part of my regular rotation of nearly twenty suits.
> 
> ...


Realistically, most young fellows just starting out on a job are not going to be able to afford a "regular rotation" of nearly 20 suits." Now let's do some simple math. You can quite easily get a JAB Signature suit for around $300, sometimes appreciably less. A suit from a good but economical bespoke operation like W.W. Chan or a decent MTM from a quality maker will cost you somewhere in the vicinty of $1,200 (low-end). You can double to triple that figure for a quality domestic tailor or high-end MTM (e.g., Oxxford). Now, doesn't it make more sense for a young man entering a job that requires wearing a suit to start out with a reasonable rotation of a half-dozen or so moderately priced suits and build from there rather than dropping most of his sartorial budget on one or two really good suits, which, no matter what the quality of fabric and workmanship, will be beaten to death from almost daily wear in fairly short order and be boring in their repetitiveness?


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