# 1940s Brooks Brothers



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Stumbled across some nice Brooks ads from the 1940s, thought I'd share them here. I get the impression that Brooks didn't quite understand what it had with the Ivy League style yet... Interesting anyhow, though.









(1940)

Lots of Ivy League staples there, but still advertised for playing tennis.









(1940)

Madras shirts... for the beach. Interesting that their buttondowns are apparently made of a cotton cheviot from Scotland... Can anyone help shed some light on the difference between a cheviot weave and an oxford weave?









(1940)

Classic natural shoulder jacket.









(1940)

Hawaiian shirts... Trad? :icon_smile_big:









(1940)

The model here seems to have some waist suppression... I didn't realize they'd made a waist suppressed suit before the No. 2 in the early 1960s... Note the collar pin. 









(1940)

This ad seems to suggest that Brooks was at least aware that something was happening on campus...









(1940)

"Anonymous but unanimous"... I like that. 









(1940)

Anglo-inspired waist-suppressed double breasted, featured with derby bowler and dress gloves, for maximum effect. 









(1941)

Is that a green buttondown? I suspect the matching tie was due to the expense involved in printing color ads...









(1941)









(1941)

Uruguayan rope-soled espadrilles? That's a sharp-looking bathrobe, though.









(1941)









(1942)

Brooks acknowledged the war, but it didn't seem to drain off their customer base to quite the same extent as the Ivy-based clothiers.









(1942)

Note the early use of rayon.









(1943)









(1943)









(1943)

Pink OCBDs for the summer. 









(1943)

Spring overcoats. 









(1943)

Silk surcingle belts! Does anyone make these anymore?









(1943)

Wool bow ties! Anyone making them this fall?

















(1944)









(1944)

More (most likely uncomfortably hot) spring overcoats!









(1945)









(1945)









(1946)









(1946)









(1946)









(1946)









(1947)

So before they used slubby short-staple cotton???









(1948)

Note the cordovan. 









(1948)

Paisley!









(1948)

Apparently J. Press wasn't the only one doing double-breasted seersucker... surprising they'd still be pushing the old Anglo suppressed double breasted this late in the game. Was Brooks the first to do tan seersucker?









(1949)

Apparently "Crash Linen" just meant undyed natural linen before J. Press latched on to the term?

The things one learns!


----------



## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Great post. The more things change, the more they stay the same.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

That was fun! I want that worsted gab summer suit with the patch pockets. I think much of the stuff looks unabashedly English, though with a softer shoulder: the little squib on having the best of both worlds, British fabrics and American make is interesting, coming as it does on the eve of WW2. I wonder if postwar catalogues, maybe 1950 or so, strike a different, less English note?


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Good stuff, katon. I'd really like a pair of those white flannels in the first picture.


----------



## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Interesting to note the many variations in jacket style including 2 and 3 button and single and double breasted. Apparently the 3r2 sack never was the only viable option.


----------



## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Really neat post! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

From the 1950 Coronet article on Brooks. 
Brooks rewards this loyalty with an equally unswerving devotion to the tradition which has made the establishment an institution. In two of its stores, suits are still piled on long tables as they were in all clothing stores a half-century ago. By far the best individual seller is still the "No. 1 sack suit," a straight-hanging model with no padding in the shoulders or stiffening in the lapels. The style hasn't changed in more than 40 years.

Brooks firmly believes that the old is as new as tomorrow, providing it is correct. Tyrone Power, the film star, found this out when he was preparing for his role in _The Razor's Edge_. He dropped in to see Mr. Brooks and asked if the store had some photographs which would give his studio's tailors an idea of what the correctly dressed man wore in 1914. Mr. Brooks showed him a picture on the office wall of Yale University's famed Whiffenpoof singing club, taken about that time. Power was delighted; the clothes were just what he needed.
"All right, young man," Mr. Brooks told the actor as he led him to the door. "Take the elevator to the second floor, see one of our salesmen there, and buy our No. 1 sack suit. That's what all of us have on in that picture, and it's still sold at Brooks."


----------



## dwebber18 (Jun 5, 2008)

We really do need a time machine so we can go back and load up on all that great stuff. I'm sure being a big, tall guy I'd still be out of luck. My dad had to always order his shoes and he only wears a 12


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

I wanted to touch on something you mentioned in this post https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?107258-J.-Press-in-1959 in relation to your current post. You asked about "English Kerchief Bordered Madder Print Silks. Crepe Lined" - "Kerchief Bordered"? ---The tie in question is on the bottom left. I have seen these. I would have you look at the silk Bandanna scan from 1946. Imagine a tie that is solid colored at the tip, then has a border followed by the design. It would look very much like the Bandanna in the front.

Modern source for silk belts https://www.bowties.com/index.cfm/p/products/range/106/cat/346/subcat/0.htm

Drakes still makes Challis bow ties


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Thanks, C. Sharp!

A few extra images from 1942:









(1942)









(1942)

"Snake hook buckle"... that's a new term to me. Any ideas?









(1942)









(1942)


----------



## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks Katon,

Always interesting, but this one with the Naval Officers uniforms was great. As a current Naval Officer, it's good to see that some things haven't changed over the years as our Service Dress Uniform remains virtually unchanged from the ones in the ads. In the past few years we have even gone back to Brooks Brothers as a supplier.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Are any of the gorgeous jackets pictured 3/2? Most seem decidedly shaped, too. Despite the "style hasn't changed in 40 years" line about the No 1 sack from the 1950 article C Sharp cites ( _Coronet_, wow, is that article online?) the look of the jackets in the ads seems quite different from the classic 1950s and on design we admire so much.


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

The Rambler said:


> Are any of the gorgeous jackets pictured 3/2? Most seem decidedly shaped, too. Despite the "style hasn't changed in 40 years" line about the No 1 sack from the 1950 article C Sharp cites ( _Coronet_, wow, is that article online?) the look of the jackets in the ads seems quite different from the classic 1950s and on design we admire so much.


A few of them seem to have 3-roll-2. The corduroy one from the first post and the herringbone ones from the second, anyhow.

I suppose this was what I was trying to get at when I mentioned that Brooks didn't really seem to understand the Ivy League look yet... Maybe Brooks was catering to a different crowd then? The only jacket that looked like a sack was the 1940 Country Jacket.

For some contrast, here's a couple 1940s J. Press ads:









(1941)









(1948)

I suppose the look simply hadn't left the campus yet?

Back in the 1930s (and later?) Brooks even had a "square shoulder" option:









(1934)

I'm not sure if this was a pre-padded shoulder for their mail order crowd, or simply an option for the locals who patronized Brooks more like one might a made-to-measure tailor, though.

I get the impression that the idea behind the sack suit originally was that someone who lived somewhere without bespoke tailors could buy a mail-order Brooks sack suit and have their local alterations tailor take it in... I'm not sure they ever envisioned folks wearing their sack suits unaltered fresh from the package. 

Maybe it all started as a bit of early class sensitivity by Ivy Leaguers during the Great Depression? Those who knew better imitating those less familiar with suits who wore theirs fresh out of the box? I suppose it could have simply been introduced to Ivy League campuses by G.I.s, like khakis were... Those 1941 J. Press jackets do look suspiciously sack-like, though...

**Edit:*

Some close-ups:


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

https://www.ivy-style.com/theres-only-one-brooks-brothers-coronet-magazine-1950.html


The Rambler said:


> Are any of the gorgeous jackets pictured 3/2? Most seem decidedly shaped, too. Despite the "style hasn't changed in 40 years" line about the No 1 sack from the 1950 article C Sharp cites ( _Coronet_, wow, is that article online?) the look of the jackets in the ads seems quite different from the classic 1950s and on design we admire so much.


----------



## SartoNYC (Feb 22, 2005)

Thank you for the post. 

If Brooks carried some of the same items it would be a lot more interesting.


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Nice posts. Very interesting. The shirt in the Mary McCarthy story "The Man in the Brooks Brothers Shirt," was green, btw.

I think this ad from Roger Kent is informative, if the certain internationally famous maker is Brooks, which it certainly must be. 


1940


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

C. Sharp said:


> From the 1950 Coronet article on Brooks.
> Brooks rewards this loyalty with an equally unswerving devotion to the tradition which has made the establishment an institution. In two of its stores, suits are still piled on long tables as they were in all clothing stores a half-century ago. By far the best individual seller is still the "No. 1 sack suit," a straight-hanging model with no padding in the shoulders or stiffening in the lapels. The style hasn't changed in more than 40 years.
> 
> Brooks firmly believes that the old is as new as tomorrow, providing it is correct. Tyrone Power, the film star, found this out when he was preparing for his role in _The Razor's Edge_. He dropped in to see Mr. Brooks and asked if the store had some photographs which would give his studio's tailors an idea of what the correctly dressed man wore in 1914. Mr. Brooks showed him a picture on the office wall of Yale University's famed Whiffenpoof singing club, taken about that time. Power was delighted; the clothes were just what he needed.
> "All right, young man," Mr. Brooks told the actor as he led him to the door. "Take the elevator to the second floor, see one of our salesmen there, and buy our No. 1 sack suit. That's what all of us have on in that picture, and it's still sold at Brooks."


Not the 1914 Whiffenpoofs, but the editorial board of the 1920 Yale Daily News.








Note the pegged trousers. Closer to the post-war version of the natural shouldered suit.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

When my father was teaching me how to break in a new pipe (!), I remember that he told me that the first thing a seasoned pipe smoker does with a new briar is remove all filters and condensers from the inside :biggrin2:.


----------



## Douglas Brisbane Gray (Jun 7, 2010)

katon said:


> "Snake hook buckle"... that's a new term to me. Any ideas?


Used to be part of school and cub scout uniforms when I was a boy. My schools was brown with a yellow stripe.


----------



## Peachey Carnehan (Apr 18, 2009)

I'd love to sit down with a BB catalog from the 40s and one from 1960 side by side and see how much changed and how much stayed the same in an essentially conservative style.


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Another one, from 1949.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Interesting as always.
Where do you find this stuff?


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm surprised at how some of those suits hold up over time, style wise. (Especially that two button paddock cut.) They're not as exaggerated as some '40s suits.


----------



## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Those lapel rolls on the jackets are amazing. Really amazing


----------



## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

Beautiful! The waist suppression may be a mirage, though. In old ads, which 40 years later still looked no different that these illustrations , and on their in-store mannequins, Brooks pinned suits so there'd be waist. Don't know why since that wasn't their sack style. Maybe they wanted an athletic look. Of course, there were always more foppish wearers -- I remember a very dashing young salesman at the Madison Ave. store -- who would have the suits tailored for waist suppression, as well as working cuffs and other details.


----------



## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

katon said:


> Thanks, C. Sharp!
> 
> A few extra images from 1942:
> 
> ...


Dear Brooks Brothers,

Yes please. I would like one of each. Please put them on my account.

Sincerely,

Orgetorix


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

A few more:









(1943)

I'm beginning to think that Brooks may indeed have been the first out with brown seersucker...









(1943)









(1943)









(1943)









(1945)









(1945)









(1946)









(1947)


----------



## carpu65 (Apr 15, 2009)

Some new stuff:
1930s Brooks Brothers double breasted (seems darted):

1941 Brooks Brothers double breasted (the shape of the lapels seem deliberately archaic,like on a 1890s double breasted).

Modern sketch for Brooks Brothers that depicts the 1930s-1940s Brooks double breasted:

The last of Brooks,Wintrop Holly Brooks,in 1945 (note the double breasted,seems darted)

At left a 30s Brooks Brothers double breasted,at right a 1969 Brooks Brothers DB blazer; note that the shape of the lapels is similar (with the peaks horizontal).
I don't see "boxy" unshaped sacks here:

A 1940 tweed single breasted suit; i don't see "sack" (see the shoulder and the waist)

Now some of interesting; remember Tyrone Power and the movie "The razor's hedge"?


> Tyrone Power, the film star, found this out when he was preparing for his role in _The Razor's Edge_. He dropped in to see Mr. Brooks and asked if the store had some photographs which would give his studio's tailors an idea of what the correctly dressed man wore in 1914. Mr. Brooks showed him a picture on the office wall of Yale University's famed Whiffenpoof singing club, taken about that time. Power was delighted; the clothes were just what he needed.
> "All right, young man," Mr. Brooks told the actor as he led him to the door. "Take the elevator to the second floor, see one of our salesmen there, and buy our No. 1 sack suit. That's what all of us have on in that picture, and it's still sold at Brooks."


And here some pictures of the movie,set in 1915, with the 1946 No.1 sack suit:

Well,seem to me clear and evident that in 30s and 40s sack suit,undarted and with little waist suppression was only ONE among others models at Brooks Brothers,and not the main model like in 50s and 60s.


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

From a reminiscence by Joseph W. Alsop, describing the way Brooks Brothers was viewed in the years before the Ivy League Boom:


> As for the men, the first rule was to go to London for suits and shoes as soon as you could afford it. If financial strain was then felt, shirts, neckties, and so forth might also be acquired in London, or even New York. But if expense was no object, it was preferable to seek these lesser articles from Charvet or Sulka in Paris. The less well-heeled, meanwhile, clothed, shirted, and shoed themselves at Brooks Brothers, and so did 90 percent of the young males until the fairly awe-inspiring moment when their fathers would take them to their London tailors-not necessarily in London, for the tailors' and shoemakers' representatives came to the US twice a year to see to the current wants of their regular customers on this side of the water.


Strangely enough, this view of Brooks as a downmarket Savile Row alternative rather than its own unique style seems to have persisted in certain circles until at least the early 60s; Tom Wolfe referenced the viewpoint in his essay "The Secret Vice". When did it finally die out, I wonder? The 80s?


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

AldenPyle said:


> Not the 1914 Whiffenpoofs, but the editorial board of the 1920 Yale Daily News.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unless my Gaydar is broken, front row left.


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

SartoNYC said:


> Thank you for the post.
> 
> If Brooks carried some of the same items it would be a lot more interesting.


I agree with you. Some of those items look far more stylish than what is offered today. The more shaped suits look like they could be sold as modern RLPL.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Unless my Gaydar is broken, front row left.


Unless you're making advances on the man in question, it isn't gentlemanly to make accusations about someone's sexuality. :teacha:


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

katon said:


> From a reminiscence by Joseph W. Alsop, describing the way Brooks Brothers was viewed in the years before the Ivy League Boom:
> 
> Strangely enough, this view of Brooks as a downmarket Savile Row alternative rather than its own unique style seems to have persisted in certain circles until at least the early 60s; Tom Wolfe referenced the viewpoint in his essay "The Secret Vice". When did it finally die out, I wonder? The 80s?


Very interesting. That makes it all the more remarkable that they had discerning customers like Cary Grant or Fred Astaire.


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

There is truth in the Alsop comment but I think the story is a little more complicated. I point readers to the 1960 George Fraizer article https://thematerialist.net/artofwearingclothes.html. I would also suggest the Coronet article linked on the first page of this thread.



katon said:


> From a reminiscence by Joseph W. Alsop, describing the way Brooks Brothers was viewed in the years before the Ivy League Boom:
> 
> Strangely enough, this view of Brooks as a downmarket Savile Row alternative rather than its own unique style seems to have persisted in certain circles until at least the early 60s; Tom Wolfe referenced the viewpoint in his essay "The Secret Vice". When did it finally die out, I wonder? The 80s?


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Definition of Cheviot
https://belovedlinens.net/TextilePedia/CheviotS.html

"Cheviot shirting is a narrow, all-cotton fabric, made originally from the wool of Cheviot sheep, weighing from four to five ounces per yard of 27 inches width finished and is composed of single or double ends in the warp and single filling. The effect of the double ends is entirely different from that produced by a two-ply thread, and is really meant to create a rib weave effect. This fabric is made of cotton yarns, from l-16s to l-22s in the warp and filling, and the cloth contains from 40 to 46 double ends per inch in warp and 36 to 40 picks per inch in the filling. Another grade is made by weaving 36 to 62 single ends per inch in the cloth, and 19 to 52 picks per inch in the filling finished .
BY THE FIRST METHOD there is 'produced a cloth that is at once stout and pliable, and having excellent wearing qualities. This cloth Is used principally in the manufacture of shirts and mock shirts for the use of workmen accustomed to rough, dirty work, such as miners and railroad men, and those similarly employed. It is made in stripe pattern, usually of the darker tones of fast colors, such as dark blue, dark brown, etc., in the warp, and filling to match. In these warp stripe patterns the dark colors fonm 'the body or ground of the pattern andi the warp warp forms but a narrow pin stripe in the cloth. Then there are the light patterns, lm which meanly all the bright colors are used, such as light blue, orange, red, light greeny etc. In this case the body or ground of the cloth la formed by the white warp, and the bright color farms the pin stripe In the cloth. Print yarns are occasionally introduced in the light colored patterns to create mixed color effects. The filling in the light patterns is always white. In making Cheviot shirting there is rather a heavy size placed upon the warp yarn."


----------



## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

I wish they'd return to that level of quality. But that doesn't make enough profit for Luxotica these days...

Imagine buying a heavy flannel suit that lasted say for 30-50 years.


----------



## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

We've been over this before, EVT. There's no business connection between RBA and Luxottica, and Brooks is RBA's only retail entity.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage (Nov 24, 2011)

Hello to the OP. What month was the 1949 Southern vacationists ad published?

Thanks--


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

A vintage polar bear sweater was sold on ebay. You can see it here and snag the picture. . Same seller sold a Brooks Tennis Sweater of the same vintage.


----------

