# Uniforms in movies and television (discussion moved here)



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

The Trek uniforms are really _costumes_, but the most realistic seeming variety _were_ the red ones from the early films. I could never imagine how any contemporary naval uniform could evolve into the others.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Taken Aback said:


> The Trek uniforms are really _costumes_, but the most realistic seeming variety _were_ the red ones from the early films. I could never imagine how any contemporary naval uniform could evolve into the others.


Just take a look at the men and women on the aircraft carrier decks. They wear differently coloured tops depending on their line of work.

Star Trek's uniforms may not be realistic but they look good on television. It was one of the shows being used to advertise the benefits of colour television in the '60s. In fact, the costumes and starship interiors from the pilots were a little more drab in their colour scheme until someone told them to pep it up a little more. The 2009 film is a tad more realistic in that the dress uniforms are dark grey or maroon and only the standard -- presumably for work/combat/etc. -- uniforms have colour coded tunics, albeit a few shades darker than the original series. Still, costumes are costumes. They have their own fictional logic and that's usually good enough for the fans! (Which you can probably tell I'm one of.)


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

Jovan said:


> Just take a look at the men and women on the aircraft carrier decks. They wear differently coloured tops depending on their line of work.
> 
> Star Trek's uniforms may not be realistic but they look good on television. It was one of the shows being used to advertise the benefits of colour television in the '60s. In fact, the costumes and starship interiors from the pilots were a little more drab in their colour scheme until someone told them to pep it up a little more. The 2009 film is a tad more realistic in that the dress uniforms are dark grey or maroon and only the standard -- presumably for work/combat/etc. -- uniforms have colour coded tunics, albeit a few shades darker than the original series. Still, costumes are costumes. They have their own fictional logic and that's usually good enough for the fans! (Which you can probably tell I'm one of.)


Why yes, I will get into a discussion about this.

The problem with the other uniforms, especially the TNG uniforms, was that they were all jumpsuits. Surely if giant onesies were actually a good uniform, the US Army would have experimented with them by now. (Maybe they have, I don't know: but the things looked pretty goofy, all other things being equal. I never understood why we all had to wear pajamas in the future.) The general color scheme wasn't bad, but they weren't anything as crisp and all-around good looking as the movie reds.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I agree, but you have to admit the TNG third season ones with the Nehru collar were a big improvement. They were a jacket and trouser. Initially they were closer fitting and made of the same fabric as the jumpsuits. Later they moved to a more appropriate wool gabardine fabric which didn't stretch, thus they were made looser fitting. The jacket had a jumbo spandex band at the bottom with the "wrong side" facing out. The costume change was due to the first/second season's tight fitting jumpsuit doing murder on Mr. Stewart's back -- in fact, his doctor said he couldn't work any more if the costumes weren't made more wearer-friendly. Unlike the jumpsuits they constantly had to be adjusted when the actors sat down and got up again so they'd keep the crisp looking, military tailoring look in front. This is where the infamous "Picard manouevre" comes from. The trousers were actually held up by braces underneath the jacket. The back zipper was a nightmare -- the actors always needed a hand getting them off.

The Deep Space Nine jumpsuits were a little better than the ones worn on TNG's first and second season. From what I can gather they were intended to be like work coveralls (which TOS and TNG had), with the characters changing into TNG 3rd season style uniforms when on Earth or other occasions. They're considerably looser fitting compared to the TNG uniforms and even have a very visible elastic waist. Then comes Voyager which introduces a whole host of continuity problems with this one. They mysteriously transformed into a jacket and trousers whenever it was convenient for the characters (especially Captain Janeway) to look macho. Even the grey undershirts were shown open in the front for no good reason when the zipper was always in back!

The First Contact uniforms... meh. Don't really like them too much.

FYI, I will move this conversation to another thread if it's too off topic for everyone.


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

Titus_A said:


> Why yes, I will get into a discussion about this.
> 
> The problem with the other uniforms, especially the TNG uniforms, was that they were all jumpsuits. Surely if giant onesies were actually a good uniform, the US Army would have experimented with them by now. (Maybe they have, I don't know: but the things looked pretty goofy, all other things being equal. I never understood why we all had to wear pajamas in the future.) The general color scheme wasn't bad, but they weren't anything as crisp and all-around good looking as the movie reds.


Pilots & Tankers wear pajamas!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I'd also point out that Seal Team 6 wear flight suits.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Titus_A said:


> Why yes, I will get into a discussion about this.
> 
> The problem with the other uniforms, especially the TNG uniforms, was that they were all jumpsuits. Surely if giant onesies were actually a good uniform, the US Army would have experimented with them by now. (Maybe they have, I don't know: but the things looked pretty goofy, all other things being equal. I never understood why we all had to wear pajamas in the future.) The general color scheme wasn't bad, but they weren't anything as crisp and all-around good looking as the movie reds.


LOL. Back in the day, we called them flight suits, worn by a pretty impressive cross section of our aerospace forces then and (even) now...aircrews wore/wear them; missile launch crews wear them, etc. During the 1960's, crews assigned to the Aerospace Defense Command got a little wild and crazy, wearing a visually striking blaze orange version; while we poor schmucks in the Strategic Air Command were left with the comparatively uninspiring olive drab versions. Alas the passage of time has done nothing for our sense of color style, as today's color options include...well(?); "there are green ones, and green ones, and green ones, and green ones; and they are all made out of ticki-tacky...and they all look just the same!" Actually they are made out of Nomex...and that really is a plus! (LOL) Thank gawd, Star Fleet finally got it right!


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. Back in the day, we called them flight suits, worn by a pretty impressive cross section of our aerospace forces then and (even) now...aircrews wore/wear them; missile launch crews wear them, etc.


Well, this is true: aviators have long worn flight suits. I suppose if you envision ST-type astronauts as successors to aviators, the uniform makes a certain amount of sense. But my impression---and please correct me if I'm wrong---is that the flight suit was a primarily utilitarian outfit made for flying, or as a type of coverall for working on planes, rather than an everyday walking-around uniform. Star Trek crews always seemed more like marines than flyers, too, so I wasn't thinking of aviator uniforms.



Jovan said:


> The First Contact uniforms... meh. Don't really like them too much.


Hmm, I thought the TNG movie uniforms were an improvement. _Gustibus non disputandem_.


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## DcJeff (May 23, 2011)

I was in the Submarine service and we wore poopy (loose jump) suits all the time. We didn't have different colors because there weren't that many of us.


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## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

Jovan said:


> I'd also point out that Seal Team 6 wear flight suits.


Well, yes, sorta, technically. They do wear flight suits, they also wear cammies of the Army, other armed service branches and patterns never used by a military. They also wear civilian clothes of various origins, wet suits on occassion, pretty much anything. DevGru doesn't really have a uniform, they just wear whatever best fits the mission at that time.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Titus_A said:


> Well, this is true: aviators have long worn flight suits. I suppose if you envision ST-type astronauts as successors to aviators, the uniform makes a certain amount of sense. But my impression---and please correct me if I'm wrong---is that the flight suit was a primarily utilitarian outfit made for flying, or as a type of coverall for working on planes, rather than an everyday walking-around uniform. Star Trek crews always seemed more like marines than flyers, too, so I wasn't thinking of aviator uniforms.
> 
> ....


Indeed sir, you are correct. Flight suits are a utility uniform. However, having at various points of my service worn flight suits, OD fatigues, BDU's, and the dark blue fatigues, formerly worn by our missile combat crews, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the flight suits invest their male wearers with significantly enhanced appeal to members of the opposite sex, when compaired with all the other options! LOL. Didn't ya ever wonder why female Trekkies outnumber male Trekkies, almost two to one? It's gotta be the clothing choices!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> Indeed sir, you are correct. Flight suits are a utility uniform. However, having at various points of my service worn flight suits, OD fatigues, BDU's, and the dark blue fatigues, formerly worn by our missile combat crews, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the flight suits invest their male wearers with significantly enhanced appeal to members of the opposite sex, when compaired with all the other options! LOL. Didn't ya ever wonder why female Trekkies outnumber male Trekkies, almost two to one? It's gotta be the clothing choices!


Finally someone gets it. The stereotype that all Trekkies are white guys is demonstrably false if you go to any nerdy convention.

My girlfriend actually loves the TNG first season jumpsuit and hates the third season one. (We are polar opposites on this.) I think it has more to do with Data in tight spandex than the actual costume design though. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Jovan said:


> Finally someone gets it. The stereotype that all Trekkies are white guys is demonstrably false if you go to any nerdy convention.
> 
> My girlfriend actually loves the TNG first season jumpsuit and hates the third season one. (We are polar opposites on this.) I think it has more to do with Data in tight spandex than the actual costume design though. :icon_smile_wink:


I never liked the first season jumpsuits either. It always looks awkward when I watch the early episodes. My favourite Star Trek uniforms are from TOS movies (not TMP).


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

And of course everyone remembers the unisex skants which were just as short on the guys as the gals! If anything the skirted duty uniforms make the least sense.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Jovan said:


> Finally someone gets it. The stereotype that all Trekkies are white guys is demonstrably false if you go to any nerdy convention.
> 
> My girlfriend actually loves the TNG first season jumpsuit and hates the third season one. (We are polar opposites on this.) I think it has more to do with Data in tight spandex than the actual costume design though. :icon_smile_wink:


Well, Marina Sirtis hated the jumpsuits that gave away her figure (which I certainly didn't mind), but the first season skirted TNG uniforms were incomprehensible, and especially on the guys. :icon_smile_big:


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Gotta hand it to the male extras who were secure enough in their masculinity to wear them!

Troi's sex appeal is a bit overrated in my opinion. I guess she's not _bad_ looking and certainly had a great figure. However, she was a total Mary Sue most of the time -- almost no personality flaws (read: _no personality_) and all the male guest stars wanted her for whatever reason. It got rather tiresome and unbelievable after a while, which is saying a lot on a series that has countless alien humanoids and faster than light space travel!


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Well, Denise Crosby probably would have balanced that out had she continued. That character certainly had some more personality.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Taken Aback said:


> Well, Marina Sirtis hated the jumpsuits that gave away her figure (which I certainly didn't mind), but the first season skirted TNG uniforms were incomprehensible, and especially on the guys. :icon_smile_big:


A Star Fleet nod, perhaps, to those martially inclined types...who are fond of wearing Uniform Kilts(!)? LOL. The design could have worked, if it had allowed the manly men of Star Fleet to bare their heavily muscled and hairy legs. But alas, as it was, it simply made then look a bit...well, like sissies. There, I have said it! I may regret it but, I have said it.


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