# Opera Pumps



## suitandtieguy (Mar 9, 2007)

My bf and I are going to a formal event and he surprised me with a pair of Opera Pumps (they have bows). I think they look feminine but he assures me that these are totally appropriate for men to wear with black tie.
I have never owned a pair before nor seen anyone earing them. Thoughts?


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## Lime (Feb 27, 2008)

Opera pumps are a traditional choice for formal footwear, along with the more masculine patent leather laceup balmoral. I wore a terrific pair of Cole Haan calfskin opera pumps for 20 years, from my fraternity days to just this past year, and only replaced them with Alden patent leather bals for the sake of change. That being said, my wife thinks the opera pumps are a bit dandyesque, especially on my 8.5 size foot, but that's her problem.


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## indylion (Feb 28, 2005)

suitandtieguy said:


> My bf and I are going to a formal event and he surprised me with a pair of Opera Pumps (they have bows). I think they look feminine but he assures me that these are totally appropriate for men to wear with black tie.
> I have never owned a pair before nor seen anyone earing them. Thoughts?


_Offensive post deleted by Teacher_


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

Opera pumps are not feminine, they are refined and dignified (unlike the snipe above).

They are descended from the shoes that men wore at court (as in the presence of the English monarch), except they now have a bow instead of a steel buckle.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I understand the traditional aspects of opera pumps and would never project any negative connotations in the direction of folks who wear them; however, I don't think I will ever wear them myself. They come across as being very feminine looking to me. I'm just thankful that there are other options available. 

Cruiser


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

indylion said:


> Offensive post deleted by Teacher


Uncalled for.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

suitandtieguy said:


> My bf and I are going to a formal event and he surprised me with a pair of Opera Pumps (they have bows). I think they look feminine but he assures me that these are totally appropriate for men to wear with black tie.
> I have never owned a pair before nor seen anyone earing them. Thoughts?


I wish anyone would buy me Opera Pumps. Preferably calf with a low vamp. consider yourself lucky and wear them with confidence. They were good enough for Frank and Dean.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

I agree with the OP--I would never wear them.

Of course, I feel the same about patent leather--way too dainty for me.

I also agree that indylion's post was beyond the pale.


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## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

I wear a pair that I had made for me at Crockett & Jones. 
Leopard across the toe. Black velvet.
I've received nothing but compliments when I wear them. 
Particularly from the ladies.


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## Valhson (Mar 26, 2007)

Can't say here nor there. I do like the look but with 10EEEE feet, I feel they wouldn't look right for me. Wouln't be against others pulling it of that is for sure. I see them at the Kennedy Center now and then. 

But with a sunken heart I must inform you I see very little proper dress there on opening nights anymore. Looks like most just leave to office and show up.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

As others have correctly noted, opera pumps are a refined and dignified traditional option for formal footwear. That said, the bows can seem to some a bit too dandy-ish or dainty to some folks. Of course as Jack points out, some folks feel that way about balmorals (UK oxfords) in patent leather too. Given that patent leather bals and opera pumps are a gentleman's traditional two options for a formal occasion, I guess some guys who otherwise value traditional norms feel they're between a pillow and a soft place when it comes to formal affairs. Of course they could just ignore traditional sartorial convention and wear a well-polished conservative bal such as the AE Park Avenue (this option works well as a practical matter, but technically doesn't satisfy the formal rules of engagement for those few, like me, who care about such things), but another option is to look for plain calf opera pumps w/o the bow. Paul Stuart used to sell them. I bought a barely used pair via eBay for $20. These shoes represent a handsome and useful option for gents who are uncomfortable not only with shoes donning bows or patent leather but with attending formal affairs with less than formal shoes.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Mike Petrik, Please let me take just a moment to thank you for your well thought out response to posts like mine that take the opposite viewpoint. It's refreshing to read such a post that, while not agreeing with my personal thoughts on the subject, nevertheless recognizes that there are personal choices involved in things like this and there is no absolute right or wrong in such matters. 

By the way, I'm one of those who also doesn't particularly care for patent leather either. :icon_smile_big: 

Cruiser


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

David V said:


> I wish anyone would buy me Opera Pumps.


I gave my younger brother a pair of opera pumps a few months ago.

To be fair, though, it was a pair of AE Ritz that I bought for myself, but the instep was too shallow for me. They are the only pair of AEs that didn't fit me perfectly in 10.5EEE.

Fortunately, he wears the same size that I do. He tried them on, and they were very comfortable to him. he wears them with tails and with his DB tuxedo.

I am seriously considering having a bespoke pair made at some point. Until then, I will muddle on with my AE Spencers.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> ...By the way, I'm one of those who also doesn't particularly care for patent leather either. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Cruiser


Personally, I love patent leather. Why I'm almost sure the good Lord gave man patent leather pumps just so that he could see if the lady wearing them was going Commando, or not! I don't think he intended for us to actually wear them? :icon_smile_wink:

PS: Ouch... the wife just hit me!


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

Can anyone post a picture of a real life ensemble with the opera pumps? I personally can't imagine wearing them, but I would like to see what the proper set-up is.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

How about some factual, objective history from *The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes,* Formalwear Chapter:

Patent leather slip-ons are the most traditional, but oxfords (lace up) are fine, especially in an emergency. If you're going to wear oxfords, the best choice would be a plain toe or cap toe. These are not work shoes!!! No wing tips or loafers, or any other style that might be considered business shoes. The oxford shoe can be shined as you would any dressy shoe.

Black calfskin *dancing pumps* with ribbed silk bows are the most acceptable. The word pump may have come from either the word "pomp", or "pump" (from the application of a foot brake by the coachmen that wore this shoe style). Pumps date from the 16th century and are the oldest part of evening dress. Originally they were worn with knee breeches and silk stockings. 

Formal shoes are customarily patent leather, but can be highly shined leather or velvet. Velvet pumps are most appropriate when you are hosting a formal evening at home! 

*Patent leather* is from New Jersey by way of France. The art of varnishing woods and metals was used on leather in the early 1800's in France for pumps, which were all the rage then. In 1922 Seth Boyden of Newark, New Jersey developed leather based on the European method and applied for a "patent" for the process. ​


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Thanks, Cruiser. I often disagree with your posts, but I just see no point in being disagreeable. I try to stay away from using the word "rules" when it comes to clothing, favoring instead "norms" and "conventions." I believe such norms and conventions are useful insomuch as they charitably remove much of the stress that results from uncertainty. Most people want to dress and behave appropriately in matters of manners and such, and well-understood conventions and norms remove such uncertainty. In addition, such conventions and norms usually develop over time and therefore include a level of tastefulness that stands the test of time. Like most conservatives, I view deliberate gratuitous departures from norms as unattractive attempts at self-promotion, self-expression, or self-somethingorother. More liberal folks tend to view conventions as arbitrary constraints on individual behavior. Such is life.
Cheers,
Mike


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Andy said:


> ...Pumps date from the 16th century and are the oldest part of evening dress. Originally they were worn with knee breeches and silk stockings....


 Cruiser, you're not going to tell us you don't particularly care for this look either?


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

trims said:


> Can anyone post a picture of a real life ensemble with the opera pumps? I personally can't imagine wearing them, but I would like to see what the proper set-up is.


Not sure how much you can really tell from this picture (black is really hard to resolve details in a photo). I'm wearing AE Ritz opera pumps in this photo. From our cruise last NYE.


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## trims (Apr 12, 2007)

Mark from Plano said:


> Not sure how much you can really tell from this picture (black is really hard to resolve details in a photo). I'm wearing AE Ritz opera pumps in this photo.


First off, it looks great on you, my compliments. The whole look is well put together, only overshadowed by your wife.

They are more subtle than I imagined, and probably go unnoticed by most. Still not sure if I've got the cajones though :icon_smile_big:

Thanks for posting the pic.


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

suitandtieguy said:


> My bf and I are going to a formal event and he surprised me with a pair of Opera Pumps (they have bows). I think they look feminine but he assures me that these are totally appropriate for men to wear with black tie.
> I have never owned a pair before nor seen anyone earing them. Thoughts?


My wife won't even let me buy them.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

suitandtieguy said:


> My bf and I are going to a formal event and he surprised me with a pair of Opera Pumps (they have bows). I think they look feminine but he assures me that these are totally appropriate for men to wear with black tie.
> I have never owned a pair before nor seen anyone earing them. Thoughts?


They are, as others have pointed out, a perfectly usual and traditional (though it is a young tradition) shoe to wear with black tie. However, if you really don't feel comfortable wearing them, don't. Maybe you could try them out a couple of times and see; you might change your mind, or you might now...but at least you can say you gave it an honest attempt.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

*Now, now...that's not a good enough excuse*



MarkusH said:


> My wife won't even let me buy them.


Actually they are on my shopping list and my wife is also very anti-pumps. I think her concern is that the type of black tie 'do' we go to is often relatively conservative (civic awards - that kind of thing) and that pumps may not be well received in such gatherings!

My main worry is quite otherwise. I am not sure if the pinched bow would upset the break on the trouser, although Mark's lovely pic suggests perhaps not. Even so, I am looking for a flat bow and calf leather but other than Lobb bespoke (c. £1800) I cannot see any. 









Any ideas welcome.

Cheers.


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

Brideshead said:


> I am looking for a flat bow and calf leather but other than Lobb bespoke (c. £1800) I cannot see any.
> 
> Any ideas welcome.


Shipton and Heneage does a made-to-order opera pump for a few hundred dollars. I can't say for certain, but they can probably be persuaded to make the bow flat.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Andy said:


> _...Pumps date from the 16th century and are the oldest part of evening dress. Originally they were worn with knee breeches and silk stockings...._
> 
> Cruiser, you're not going to tell us you don't particularly care for this look either?


I don't know. Are those knee breeches made out of denim?. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## suitandtieguy (Mar 9, 2007)

Thanks for the input. I will go ahead and wear them as I have been reassured that they are nothing out of the ordinary. My bf will be thrilled.


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## etp777 (Nov 27, 2007)

Definitely appropriate, and not feminine technically.

That being said, I'm not a fan of them, particularly because I feel same way, that they look rather feminine. Black patent balmorals are my semi-formal shodding of choice.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

etp777 said:


> Definitely appropriate, and not feminine technically.
> 
> That being said, I'm not a fan of them, particularly because I feel same way, that they look rather feminine. Black patent balmorals are my semi-formal shodding of choice.


I have both-patent lace-ups and pumps; the former bespoke from Cleverley,
and wear the pumps much more often--especially with black tie, at lengthy operas
as they are easily slipped off.

I wear the lace-ups exclusively with white tie.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mark from Plano said:


> Not sure how much you can really tell from this picture (black is really hard to resolve details in a photo). I'm wearing AE Ritz opera pumps in this photo. From our cruise last NYE....


Mark: I must claim foul! Looking at that picture of you standing with your lovely wife, who's going to notice your shoes...patent or otherwise(!)?

For the record, I don't really harbor the level of rejection towards patent shoes, alluded in my earlier post. After all, I do have a recently purchased pair of black velvet Albert slippers!


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## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

I find this discussion of opera pumps/albert slippers being feminine as pretty hilarious.
I suggest you check and earlier thread on this subject...

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=79104&highlight=Albert+Slipper

Peter Lawford, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, Dennis Farina...yup, all raving queens.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> Mark: I must claim foul! Looking at that picture of you standing with your lovely wife, who's going to notice your shoes...patent or otherwise(!)?
> 
> For the record, I don't really harbor the level of rejection towards patent shoes, alluded in my earlier post. After all, I do have a recently purchased pair of black velvet Albert slippers!


LOL. My standard response to those that harbor dislike for patent leather is that such fears can be overcome through therapy and medication. I won't suggest such for you since it appears you have yours well under control (one liberal dose of velvet seems to have solved the problem). :icon_smile_big:



donk93953 said:


> Peter Lawford, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, Dennis Farina...yup, all raving queens.


Jilly said to tell you he doesn't find this funny and Frank wants to see you outside.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Mark from Plano said:


> My standard response to those that harbor dislike for patent leather is that such fears can be overcome through therapy and medication.


If medication includes good single barrel bourbon I'm willing to take the treatment. Actually I would like to modify my prior stance much like Eagle did his. I don't "dislike" patent leather as much as I just don't see it as a necessity in my life. A nicely shined pair of bals serves me quite well but if I felt like the occasion warranted it I would wear patent leather lace ups, just not the opera pumps.

It would be a hard sell for someone to talk me into that, unless of course she was really, really good looking and had a bottle of that single barrel bourbon in hand. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Neal Shields (Mar 11, 2007)

*Excruciatingly correct*

If they were given to you by someone who loves you, suck it up and wear them. Their opinion is far more important than the collective opinion of the great unwashed.

I wear opera pumps, and would would not be likely to go back. I must admit that my "bow" isn't pinched but would not mind if it were. My wife calls them excruciatingly correct.

Warning!!! You are going to show a lot of stocking, so beyond the idea of the pumps themselves being less than lumberjack, you need to wear silk hose with them. I had a devil of a time finding mine and ended up with $80 Brioni's from NM. However, I later found the same thing at Jos. A Banks for way less.

Why I like them:

It makes me feel even more superior than I already do.

I know that I am right while everyone else is wrong or at least less right.

It is different.

No one ever asks; "where did you rent your tux" when you are wearing opera pumps.

It makes a statement that says you are not overly concerned about other people's opinions.


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## suitandtieguy (Mar 9, 2007)

Quote:If they were given to you by someone who loves you, suck it up and wear them. Their opinion is far more important than the collective opinion of the great unwashed. 

You are right. I will waer them as I know he will be thrilled (he has a pair and loves us to match). I often wear silk stockings under my suits to work already. I will wear them with my tux too. Thanks for all the input!


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> If medication includes good single barrel bourbon I'm willing to take the treatment.
> 
> Cruiser


Whatever works. Just be sure to bring enough for the whole class.


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## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

Neal Shields said:


> Warning!!! You are going to show a lot of stocking, so beyond the idea of the pumps themselves being less than lumberjack, you need to wear silk hose with them.


I beg to disagree: My DB tux outfit is very conservative. But, I do wear black socks with the nude mud-flap girl on them in red. 
The ladies always smile.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Neal Shields said:


> Warning!!! You are going to show a lot of stocking, so beyond the idea of the pumps themselves being less than lumberjack, you need to wear silk hose with them. I had a devil of a time finding mine and ended up with $80 Brioni's from NM. However, I later found the same thing at Jos. A Banks for way less.


Embrace the sock!!!

From Manton's wedding attire article:


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Does anyone make a black calfskin opera pump? I think I dislike the patent leather more than the little bows on traditional pumps.


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## damon54 (Dec 12, 2007)

I used to see the occasional Cole Haan Pump in Calfskin.

I have Magli Formal Pumps , fabric body, no Bow with a silk accent on the upper portion of the vamp.

They don't turn me into Tommy Tune, but quite easily the most feminine 
entre of my shoe collection.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

damon54 said:


> I used to see the occasional Cole Haan Pump in Calfskin.
> 
> I have Maglia Formal Pumps , fabric body, no Bow with a silk accent on the upper portion.
> 
> ...


Me too...but I don't think CH makes those anymore. I'll need to check out the Maglias. I'm still not sold on getting a special pair of shoes for black tie, but half the fun is in the looking!

Oddly enough, I brought up the idea of opera pumps to my wife. She thinks they're maybe slightly feminine, but have a certain old-school "coolness" to them. As with most clothes, if you exude the right level of confidence, you can wear pretty much anything.


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## Midnight Blue (Apr 22, 2007)

Try on your new pumps with your tuxedo before making any final decision. When viewed by themsleves pumps can indeed appear over the top. But when seen in the context of an overall classic black-tie ensemble, their appearance is much less dramatic. I doubt anyone even notices that I'm wearing pumps instead of oxfords (until I sit down and cross my legs, that is!)


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## whistle_blower71 (May 26, 2006)

TMMKC said:


> Does anyone make a black calfskin opera pump? I think I dislike the patent leather more than the little bows on traditional pumps.


Yes, Edward Green. I got mine at Ede & Ravenscroft. They have a wine/purple lining.

*W_B*


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## Roikins (Mar 22, 2007)

Midnight Blue said:


> Try on your new pumps with your tuxedo before making any final decision. When viewed by themsleves pumps can indeed appear over the top. But when seen in the context of an overall classic black-tie ensemble, their appearance is much less dramatic. I doubt anyone even notices that I'm wearing pumps instead of oxfords (until I sit down and cross my legs, that is!)


I agree... the only time you can really tell I'm wearing pumps is when I'm sitting, and even then it's hard to tell since my feet are under a table or hidden by the table cloth. When you're mingling about, everyone is usually looking up at what the women are wearing or looking for another glass of champagne or hors d'oeuvres, not looking down at shoes. Here's a photo which I think demonstrates how pumps probably wouldn't be noticed:
https://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000414759448350189

I wear a pair of Ferragamo patent pumps with a strip instead of whole bow:
https://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000455047032895659


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> Does anyone make a black calfskin opera pump? I think I dislike the patent leather more than the little bows on traditional pumps.


You might check Paul Stuart. They used to carry such a pump, and at least one version sans bows -- which I own and wear.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

Another variation is Belgian Shoes' version.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Thanks for the advice, all.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Neal Shields said:


> If they were given to you by someone who loves you, suck it up and wear them. Their opinion is far more important than the collective opinion of the great unwashed.
> 
> I wear opera pumps, and would would not be likely to go back. I must admit that my "bow" isn't pinched but would not mind if it were. My wife calls them excruciatingly correct.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have worn them a lot. How are they for walking?


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## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

Elegantly delightful


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## tbabes (Feb 28, 2006)

TMMKC said:


> Does anyone make a black calfskin opera pump? I think I dislike the patent leather more than the little bows on traditional pumps.


Yes! I just purchased a pair of Edward Green / Purple Label Opera Pumps in black calfskin.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

I believe I saw half a dozen of those on eBay over the past couple weeks. I was monitoring the 10.5, but, then I realized, unfortunately, they are indeed calf leather. Anyway, possessing two is enough for me at the moment.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

*Lace Up, Slip On, Step Out*

I found this today - interesting alternatives to the Pump......

https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F05E7DD133CF931A25753C1A961958260


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Brideshead said:


> I found this today - interesting alternatives to the Pump......
> 
> https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F05E7DD133CF931A25753C1A961958260


"the Broadstreet, at $260 in eye-catching white and black, is a best seller among the store's white-shoe clientele"

Spectator shoes with (non-California) black tie? This may make we a Luddite, but: Nix nix!


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Did I read that wrong or did he just suggest specatators and bit loafers for use with a tux? ic12337:


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Mark from Plano said:


> Did I read that wrong or did he just suggest specatators and bit loafers for use with a tux? ic12337:


The article referenced seems to suggest them as an option but I do not believe the poster necessarily does...


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Orsini said:


> The article referenced seems to suggest them as an option but I do not believe the poster necessarily does...


Sorry. Reread my post and it wasn't clear. I meant that the article suggested it.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

donk93953 said:


> I find this discussion of opera pumps/albert slippers being feminine as pretty hilarious.
> I suggest you check and earlier thread on this subject...
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=79104&highlight=Albert+Slipper
> ...


Yes, getting tiresome. That high formality = feminine, and presumedly hunting boots at the other end of the range, are therefore uber masculine is kind of silly. I happen to own both and everything in between. My sexual proclivities do not change when I am dressed formally. I think perhaps this notion comes from class distinctions more than anything. Some men were just never exposed to formal wear, at least in its correct forms, growing up, therefore, a truly formal shoe is somehow feminine.

Opera pumps and Prince Alberts may be effete, but hardly feminine.


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## LoneWolf (Apr 20, 2006)

Before reading this thread I would not have considered wearing what a member of his security team once referred to as (then Governor) Ronald Reagan's "dolly shoes". But now I'm giving serious thought to buying a pair. 

Just what I need - another pair of shoes.


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## Beau Nash (Apr 6, 2008)

I have a pair of AE Ritz pumps that my wife hated when I ordered them, hated when they came in, snarked about when I said I was going to wear them, and absolutely loved once they were on with the tuxedo. Like many things sartorial, I think having proper shoes adds a sense of confidence about what one is wearing, even for those of us who don't wear formal wear more than a half dozen times a year. And, as posted above, it is hard to confuse a well cut tuxedo with proper shoes and a rental outfit.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Orsini said:


> The article referenced seems to suggest them as an option but I do not believe the poster necessarily does...


 Oh, I wear them all the time with a tux!

Actually on the question of Gucci Loafers the Duke of Edinburgh, as we know, is signed up.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Brideshead said:


> Oh, I wear them all the time with a tux!


Truly? I had never heard of this! Live and learn, I guess...

For any evening semi-formal event, or just certain types?


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Beau Nash said:


> I have a pair of AE Ritz pumps...


What were they like for walking?


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## Ricardo Malocchio (Oct 3, 2007)

Pumps are traditional, elegant, even quite comfortable and decent for dancing. They do very much fit the intended bill. If you dig them, wear them.

But make no mistake - chicks hate 'em. ("Ladies" on the other hand, may well appreciate your throwback style.)

Er, chicks also hate spectators. Sorry.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Orsini said:


> Truly? I had never heard of this! Live and learn, I guess...
> 
> For any evening semi-formal event, or just certain types?


I was joking, of course!

No I normally wear a pair of Church's plain calf Oxfords on the svelte 108 last (Lingfield) with a dinner jacket but would wear Tricker's Albert slippers at home or for a less formal black tie affair. Pumps are still on my 'to do' list.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Brideshead said:


> I was joking, of course!
> 
> No I normally wear a pair of Church's plain calf Oxfords on the svelte 108 last (Lingfield) with a dinner jacket but would wear Tricker's Albert slippers at home or for a less formal black tie affair. Pumps are still on my 'to do' list.


Oh, joking... OK.

Do you ever wear a velvet smoking jacket to any of these events? Someone on another forum mentioned an entire evening semi-formal outfit all made of velvet. Have you ever seen anythng like that?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I have to admit to never wearing pumps and the odds are against me ever buying/wearing them. However, I am more than happy to walk around in my kilt and PC kit. If you think it takes cajones to wear pumps, try strutting around in a kilt. And then every other "lady" wants to see if your cajones are visible! :icon_smile_big:


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

Aaron in Allentown said:


> I gave my younger brother a pair of opera pumps a few months ago.
> 
> To be fair, though, it was a pair of AE Ritz that I bought for myself, but the instep was too shallow for me. They are the only pair of AEs that didn't fit me perfectly in 10.5EEE.
> 
> ...


hitchcock wide sizes has pumps in your size. they are friendly on exchanges or returns.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Orsini said:


> Oh, joking... OK.
> 
> Do you ever wear a velvet smoking jacket to any of these events? Someone on another forum mentioned an entire evening semi-formal outfit all made of velvet. Have you ever seen anythng like that?


I haven't seen anything like that in the flesh.

I would love to have a velvet smoking jacket (even though I no longer smoke!) but I feel with so many competing demands on my limited resources, that it may be a long time coming, regrettably.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Brideshead said:


> I haven't seen anything like that in the flesh.
> 
> I would love to have a velvet smoking jacket...


That would be nice...


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## Capt Ron (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm looking for a pair of patent opera pumps 11.5 medium width. AE had none on their website help!

P.S> I have missed you guys. Sorry I have been gone. I got approved to build the largest gun range in Florida and I have been smacked busy. I also have a radio show on WEBY 1330Am radio now called Capt Ron Radio, IWillNotBeAVictim Hour
www.IWIllNotBeAVictim.com


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Capt Ron said:


> I'm looking for a pair of patent opera pumps 11.5 medium width. AE had none on their website help!


Have you tried Brooks Brothers?

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=527&Product_Id=1065328&Parent_Id=522&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=

Made in England as well, NOT 'imported'.


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## Capt Ron (Dec 28, 2007)

I tried BB's, but they don't have them in my size!!!!!!!!!! Even at $348.00! But they do have the calve skin for $448 in my size, if they run a true 11.5D. They have a 12D also. Do Opera pumps typically run small????
I truly wanted patent leather.
Would one be insulting to the calve to polish it up to a brilliant patent shine? I know their my shoes and I can do what I please, but what would be proper protocol in such a dilemma?


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## Dennis V. (Apr 20, 2010)

I think calf is perfectly acceptable, I prefer calf and my opera pumps are calf skin, highly polished of course. The only problem with mine is that the bows are also calf skin, so I need to change those for grossgrain ones if I can ever find grossgrain ribbon.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Thrifted my pair of AE Ritz. Born with the cojones.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

I wear a pair of AE "Belgiums"...a plain toe, U-throat balmoral in "polished cobbler". Not patent leather...but frankly looks too much like it to wear for business in my opinion. While it's true Sinatra wore what he called his "Mary Janes"...he also wore a toupee and had body guards. I may opt for patent leather pumps when I make my debut on stage in Vegas or stride the red carpet in Hollywood. Until then...nah. I'm with Cruiser...as usual.


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