# Loden overcoat thread: 2nd try, more kindling this time…



## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

I've not been able to find much interest on this forum in Bavarian/ Austrian Loden overcoats, which are a big "trad" thing in Europe, not only Germany and Austria but also Italy, France, Britain... On the slim chance anyone else is interested, you can perhaps add to this&#8230;

As far as I can tell, the Big Three are

1, the creator, Munich's Loden-Frey, www.lodenfrei.com. I bought a very traditional Loden sportcoat in 1992, absolutely love it still. I hear LF has gone downhill in recent years, become very "modisch," produces lots of "Tramp-Tracht"&#8230; it has a very European Web site, utterly useless.

2, Vienna's Loden-Plankl, www.loden-plankl.at. Coats for "gentlemen": www.loden-plankl.at/english/kollektion/index.htm.

3, Salzburg's Schneiders, another European-style Web site, www.schneiders.com/de/index/index.asp. Schneiders markets more actively to North America. I've seen some of their stuff, pretty elegant. I have a Schneiders Tracht sportcoat.

I don't know much about Steinbock (Innsbruck), www.steinbock.at, but it's another Web site that shows you lots of what some people take for sex appeal but few clothes&#8230;

About Salko I hear less; the original firm went out of business and the label is now owned by Christa, an operation that specializes in Tracht for women. I think it's near Salzburg: www.christa-moden.at/index.php?mid=8.

I know northern Italian Loden exists, but I don't know of any makers&#8230;

As to American distributors, the only one I've found is Landau at Princeton University, which carries Schneiders: www.landauprinceton.com/our-products/loden-coats.php. Does anybody know of any others?

Here are two really good articles on Loden coats. From the NY Times, 1981: https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullp...3C1A967948260&sec=travel&spon=&pagewanted=all. The same newspaper, 1989: https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullp...15751C1A96F948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

I like this one:

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...097995&Parent_Id=202&default_color=Dark-green

though I suspect I'm missing the point of this thread.


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

I love loden. I have a northern Italian loden coat made of cashmere (as I understand loden is a style of fabric, and can be wool, cashmere or something else).

This website has some pretty great pictures, and an equally great name.

https://www.born-for-loden.co.uk/


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## gar1013 (Sep 24, 2007)

Loden is really more of a Bayerisch / Austrian Trad item... with Bayerisch Trad being something that'd have been acceptable anytime between the late 19th century through the end of World War II.

While I really do like the more traditional items of clothing that Germany (and Austria) have to offer, I also find it seems to make one stand out quite a bit -- especially if you aren't living in a German-speaking country.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Being of Austrian/Bavarian descent, this should be right up my alley, but some of the styles would be too costume-ish for me to wear outside of ethnic events.

Brian


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## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

LongWing said:


> though I suspect I'm missing the point of this thread.


I guess I was just throwing out what links I had, hoping to get some more thrown back at me... I'd like to pick up a Loden overcoat in the next month or so.

I have two loden sport coats, rather subdued next to some of the ones you'll see at Oktoberfest, but they do stand out, but they're fine for some occasions, going to church, St. Patrick's Day, going to the opera, and not only Wagner, casual Fridays in late fall, early spring...


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## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

septa said:


> I love loden. I have a northern Italian loden coat made of cashmere (as I understand loden is a style of fabric, and can be wool, cashmere or something else).
> 
> This website has some pretty great pictures, and an equally great name.
> 
> https://www.born-for-loden.co.uk/


Do you know who made your Italian loden?


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

Nathan Detroit said:


> I guess I was just throwing out what links I had, hoping to get some more thrown back at me... I'd like to pick up a Loden overcoat in the next month or so.
> 
> I have two loden sport coats, rather subdued next to some of the ones you'll see at Oktoberfest, but they do stand out, but they're fine for some occasions, going to church, St. Patrick's Day, going to the opera, and not only Wagner, casual Fridays in late fall, early spring...


Nathan, My apologies. My response was ambiguous - or simply misleading. What I meant was that my post probably was missing the point of the thread. You were interested in discussing authentic loden coats from the British Isles and I was posting something, probably irrelevant, from Brooks Brothers. However, I am curious to know if the BB loden has the single pleat in the back.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

*Loden coat*

There is a firm called Born for Loden in northern England which supplies Loden coats in many styles. I have their traditional long coat with an inverted pleat and have found it excellent in all respects.
The traditional Loden coat was a favourite of the former UK Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd, who was criticised for wearing it by some of the more xenophobic elements in the British press.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

These are interesting-looking coats. Can someone tell me more about their functionality? I wish the princeton place would've had photographs, and not just diagrams!


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I have a Loden-Frey duffel coat. I love it, but it's super heavy and is rarely worn. I'll try to snap a picture or two later.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

*Loden, continued.....*

I originally purchased a Steinbock traditional Tyrolean coat from Lands' End (!!!?) about 22 years ago; wore it constantly, eventually wore out the collar, cuffs, and front edge...I replaced it last year with a coat by Schneiders of Salzburg--a somewhat dressier version of item no. 1.

Roger Stevens , 428 East Wisconsin Ave, Milwaukee, WI 53202 handles Schneiders, and will do special orders.
I have also seen Schneiders items in the Allen-Edmonds Shoe Bank stores in our area.

In all honesty, I think I actually prefer the more robust, outdoorsy character of the Steinbock; I have seen pictues of what appears to be my old friend on the Loden-Plankl website (there is an English version).

As for Northern Italy--that was Sudtyrol--South Tyrol, part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, until 1918, when Italy got it in return for being on the winning side in WWI. Until recently, at least, Italian was the second language of the region, with Tyrolese-dialect German the dominant vehicle of communication.

Good luck in your search...I really don't regard the coat in question as a costume prop, as I wear mine to work almost daily during the winter months.

hbs


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## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

hbs midwest said:


> I have also seen Schneiders items in the Allen-Edmonds Shoe Bank stores in our area.


I recall that the AE Store on Michigan Ave here carried those for a brief time. Even on clearance they were pretty pricey and it was mainly jackets and not the big back pleat traditional coat.


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

Nathan Detroit said:


> Do you know who made your Italian loden?


All it says insde is "100% italian casmere". I picked it up at a thrift store. However, I have been told by sveral older gents that it is the most beautiful loden coat they have seen. It has the classic stylling, although, I would like some staghorn buttons for it. Also, one time when I was wearing it, and my brother and I were at Stonehenge, some tourists came up to us and started asking us to take a picture of them--in German.


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## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

If anyone is interested in Schneiders, their New York distributor is at 212/ 768-2137. I talked to them this morning and got numbers for stores selling their coats in Michigan and Baltimore... Landau near Princeton carries more of their line than anyone else in North America.


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## Pale Male (Mar 24, 2008)

*I Love Loden*

Giesswein sold some coats at their 7th Avenue showroom. I didn't buy, but I told a few coworkers and they happily did. Don't know if they're still there.

Also, Press had a beautiful version of their sack sport coat in green and possibly gray loden with horn buttons. Living in post-collegiate squalor, I couldn't possibly buy at the time, though a graduate-school friend managed to get one from his parents as a Christmas gift. I don't know if they were available more than one year, but they were featured that winter in the windows on York Street.


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## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

Sorry to hear Loden Frey is making schlock. I used to love their catalog back in the 1980's.

Here in Salt Lake City, there were plenty of pioneer immigrants of Germanic descent. I find it odd that there have been so many stores selling German food, trinkets, and women's clothing (Lanz of Salzburg was a big hit), yet the only Germanic-inspired menswear you ever see for sale, is the Tyrolean hat. So I had to mail away for details about Loden Frey and others.

The Oktoberfest up at Snowbird has changed a lot over the years. Horst Fidel used to bring up his polka band every weekend from August until October. Art Brogli would play the accordion and yodel in German with a slight Austrian accent. Tamara Von Gladekovitch would bring up her folk dancing troupe. And Siegfied's Delicatessen brought all kinds of interesting treats. No idea where all the lederhosen and trachten came from, but half of the attendees were dressed to the nines in German-inspired clothing.

Nowadays when you go to Oktoberfest, there is one little booth that sells anything German. A mixture of merchandise from Scandinavia as well, but who's complaining? The rest of the merchants are selling things like Kimonos, rhinestone belt buckles, and jewelery made from typewriter keys. A guy from Ecuador was selling hair sticks he'd turned on a lathe in his garage. All very fun stuff, but not exactly authentic German fare.

Twenty booths selling imported and microbrewery beers, and a big tent where you can sit at a folding table and buy a ten dollar bratwurst.

I know Snowbird is used to things that go downhill fast, but I'm somehow longing for the days when my high school German club would frequent the Oktoberfest of years gone by.


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## Lechner (Mar 31, 2010)

Thanks to Ask Andy Forums I was able to finally track down Salko of Austria, the manufacturer of my beloved *Austrian Loden Cloth* Overcoat - the waterproof one I bought over twenty years ago, the one that wears like iron but is as soft as a baby's blanket.

I finally got the car coat length version I've wanted all these years!









Here's the really crazy part&#8230; In the process of buying the new coat, I became Salko's Exclusive Representative for the entire United States.

My day job is developing and managing income property in San Francisco, but I became interested in reintroducing this venerable collection to America because it represents important values, like craftsmanship and durability.

Those of you who know loden coats know it's a garment one passes on to number one son - because it'll last that long and because he'll wear it with pride &#8230;on the street, on the hunt or on the campus. It will never go out of style.

I don't know jack about selling clothing but I think this brand deserves representation by the best merchants. I have no desire to see Salko dumped on the Sierra Trading Post. I've ruled out an otherwise obvious choice here in San Francisco because they are currently blowing out Barbour stock.

So, I am reaching out to Ask Andy Forums again, this time for your recommendations of retailers across the U.S. you'd suggest I talk to about Salko's collection of Loden/Alpaca coats and jackets (https://www.christa-moden.at/index.php?mid=8&smid=26 )

Thanks again for your help.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^ I'm sold. (Nearly) I love wool and wear it throughout our our wet Winters in the pacific northwest.

For starters how can I get a price list, at very least, covering the lines listed in the link you provided?

Thanks,


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## GentlemanGeorge (Dec 30, 2009)

I just picked up this vintage Lodenfrey about a week ago, gorgeous:


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## Pr B (Jan 8, 2009)

*Love Loden!*

I have a Loden coat I picked up at Scotch House, in London, back in '88. LOVE it: comfortable raglan sleeves, warm, windproof, and soft to the touch. I believe it is cut in what the English would call a hunting pattern. Only recently is the weave losing its finish.

But, yeah, Loden is hard to find in the US.


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*too hot or not?*

I adore the look of trachten/loden overcoats, but are they too warm?

by that i mean that my overwound biological thermostat (a mixed metaphor for which i apologise) is quite warm enough in a covert coat. is a loden much warmer?

with thanks,


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## Pr B (Jan 8, 2009)

*Warm?*

They are warm. I wear mine when we have snow on the ground here (typically, Nov-Apr), when the high temperatures stay below freezing (+32F, 0C). It is warm enough down to about 0 degrees F (i.e., -18C). (Although it's 77 F here today--and that's no April Fools!)


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I like the look of the Strada, tell me more.

Brian


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Right you are Tweedy. Most shades of green I'm happy with but it would be nice to see pictures,...

I'm come to the point where I no longer "Save" my favorite sport coats,....or any clothing in general. I want to wear it! I would wear one of these Loden coats all rainy, at times snowy, Winter here in the pacific northwest

I'd thought about a Bookster heavy weight tweed and may yet do it.
But I kind of like the Austria Trad thing going on with the Loden coats. I'd like to feel the fabric.



TweedyDon said:


> These are interesting-looking coats. Can someone tell me more about their functionality? I wish the princeton place would've had photographs, and not just diagrams!


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## Lechner (Mar 31, 2010)

More on my passion about Salko Loden...
History
Loden Cloth originated some 800 to 1,000 years ago as the fabric of Austria's mountain farmers and day laborers, and by the 17th Century, riflemen had adopted it for their uniforms. In the 19th Century, Kaiser Franz Josef I made it popular with the aristocracy. Today, its appeal has spread to all sectors of the apparel industry, including haute couture. Young European guys are captured by the traditional "Hubertus" hunting coat with its must-have-to-be-authentic open arm holes that make it easier to mount and fire a shotgun.

To produce Loden fabric, strong yarns are woven loosely into cloth which then undergoes a lengthy process of shrinking, eventually acquiring the texture of felt and becoming quite dense. It is then brushed or "fulled" and the nap is clipped, a process which is repeated a number of times until the fabric is lightweight, supple, windproof and extremely durable.

Fulling is the process of fluffing up an already woven or knitted piece of woolen cloth. It's to be distinguished from felting, which takes raw fleece and puts it through the same process without having any initial structure. Fulling makes the wool softer, fuzzier and thicker (so warmer for the same weight) but still very pliable. Loden cloth, developed to deal with Alpine climate, is knitted before it's fulled.

Sustainable
Wool is a perfectly-renewable resource, quick-growing and if anything helpful in the harvest to its producer.

Salko's Offerings - 2010
Salko offers long (118 cm) and ¾-length (100 cm) coats in three Loden fabrics:
· Pure Wool: 15%Alpaca Wool/85%European Wool, weighing 580 grams (~20 oz.)
· Mixed Wool: 75%Wool/20%Polyamide/5%Cashmere, 580 grams 
· Mixed "light" Wool : 80%Wool/20% Polyamide, 300grams (~11 oz.) 
Many coats have removable wool lining for climate versatility. Some are very trad with Euro shoulders, others have raglan shoulders and still others have yielded to modern tastes with more tailoring and set-in shoulders.
As of April 2010, I am just lining up retailers and ask that you recommend stores to me and me to stores you would like carrying these heirloom quality coats. Descriptions of the coats are on the Salko website(https://www.christa-moden.at/index.php?mid=8&smid=26#produkt_8). I can be contacted at [email protected]


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## Lechner (Mar 31, 2010)

*Salko Loden Coats will be available this fall...*

Thanks to Andy's Forum, you may find Salko Loden Coats in one of these stores this fall:

The Andover Shop at The Andover Shop in Boston and Cambridge, MA
Nick Hilton Studio in Princeton, NJ
O'Connell's in Buffalo, NY
Family Britches in Chappaqua, NY
Mur-Lee's in Lynbrook (Long Island, NY)
Rothman's on Union Square, New York City

More to come...


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## Dandan (Jul 17, 2020)

Eleven years later....

Pre-war Germans (from ca. 1860 to 1945) and post-war West Germans (until ca. the late 1960s) commonly bought high-quality home furnishings and clothing, but they tried their best to use them as little as possible. These people lived their lives and then died, and their belongings, which they assumed would become heirlooms, are worth very little now. I furnished my entire previous apartment with good-quality antiques and near-antiques in excellent condition-furniture, fixtures, mirrors, lamps, curtains, crockery, carpets-for less than €3,000. My German friends mocked me, saying that my place looked like their grandmothers'. (It's not true: German grandmothers are very fond of lace and kitschy ornaments.)

A loden coat, usually Austrian made, was a staple in the closets of German men who are now dead or very old, but lodens are now seen as old fashioned and rarely worn, although one still sees them occasionally in Southern Germany and German hunters still often wear loden jackets and pants. I've lived in Berlin for a decade, and I've never seen anyone in this city wear a loden coat. As a result, vintage lodens in new condition can be bought for very little, from €30 to €300, most typically €50 to €100. The best place to look for them in Germany is https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/, and the two best search terms are https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-kleidung-herren/loden/k0c160 and https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-kleidung-herren/lodenmantel/k0c160 .

If anyone abroad is keen on purchasing an "authentic" loden, I think the shipping costs are worth it, and Google Translate is your friend.

For a decent introduction to loden coats, the Gentleman's Gazette has a helpful article: https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/loden-coat-guide/ . The first photo in the article shows one of the two classic loden styles for men. Note in particular the colour, the collar, the shoulders, and the cuffs. You can't see it in the photos, but the pockets are slanted; that's also traditional. The rear of that style of loden looks like so, with a long vent:










The other classic loden style is like this one from Loden Frey, although they weren't quite so slim in the past: https://www.lodenfrey.com/LODENFREY...a9zm1KUm9ZfqfR5WH5RSRbuBfmdQY-YBoC0FwQAvD_BwE

This type of loden also often comes in two tones-grey with green edging-and sometimes with subtle decorative stitching in the shape of oak leaves on the edge of the cape-like thing (front and back), and sometimes also on the lapel and cuffs.

I'm not certain, but I believe that the first style is more typical of a hunting loden and the second of a city loden.

Classic lodens have deer-antler, leather or horn buttons. Lodens sometimes also come with leather buttonholes and cuff piping, and sometimes also with hidden buttons.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

@Dandan Thanks for the ebay hunting tips.

The T-shaped shoulder line is interesting. I've seen it before, but it repulsed me then, but intrigues me now.

I'm sure it's because I'm just not used to seeing it. I used to rag on raglan sleeves for looking like a potato sack, but that's precisely the appeal for me now.


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## Dandan (Jul 17, 2020)

@delicous_scent: is the T-shaped shoulder the type of shoulder on the first coat? I didn't know what it was called.

I am also fond of raglan sleeves. But I also like the T-shaped shoulder (if that's the first coat), even though it's kind of the opposite of raglan sleeves. It allows more mobility than any other shoulder in any other coat I have. The fabric on the body is pulled less when you move my arms forwards and backwards. Also, the armpits on this type of shoulder are often not sewn closed, which allows you to lift your arms above your head without pulling your whole coat up with them.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

Dandan said:


> @delicous_scent: is the T-shaped shoulder the type of shoulder on the first coat? I didn't know what it was called.
> 
> I am also fond of raglan sleeves. But I also like the T-shaped shoulder (if that's the first coat), even though it's kind of the opposite of raglan sleeves. It allows more mobility than any other shoulder in any other coat I have. The fabric on the body is pulled less when you move my arms forwards and backwards. Also, the armpits on this type of shoulder are often not sewn closed, which allows you to lift your arms above your head without pulling your whole coat up with them.


I don't know what it's called, but it gives off a distinct T silhouette to me.

All of that range of motion and mobility sounds really appealing to me now. Sounds similiar to coats that have a bi-swing back, I love my field jacket that has one.


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## Mr.C (Dec 21, 2021)

Nathan Detroit said:


> I've not been able to find much interest on this forum in Bavarian/ Austrian Loden overcoats, which are a big "trad" thing in Europe, not only Germany and Austria but also Italy, France, Britain... On the slim chance anyone else is interested, you can perhaps add to this&#8230;
> 
> As far as I can tell, the Big Three are
> 
> ...





GentlemanGeorge said:


> I just picked up this vintage Lodenfrey about a week ago, gorgeous:


Couple years back I bought a Navy Blue Salko from O'Connels in Buffalo, NY.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mr.C said:


> Couple years back I bought a Navy Blue Salko from O'Connels in Buffalo, NY.


Paraphrasing that fictional film character Crocodile Dundee, "Aye! Now that's a winter coat!" LOL.

PS: That is indeed a great coat!


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

The only loden item that I have is a sports jacket bought in the nineties from Lands' End. It is a beautiful dark green wool, and has that special look and feel to it that loden cloth typically has. The perfect combination with this jacket is a pair of charcoal grey (almost black) flannel or worsted trousers. I also had a favourite tattersall shirt to go with it (one with black and light green lines among other colours). A black or navy grenadine tie completed the outfit quite handsomely.

In my thrifting ventures, I have rarely seen jackets in loden cloth, although there are many in various dark green shades.


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