# Gentlemen, tell me a little bit about Church's Shoes.



## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

Just curious about the quality of this historic Northampton brand.

Thanks.


----------



## Il Signor Crispone (Jul 18, 2014)

They're very high quality, with a price tag to match. But you are genuinely paying for quality and skilled craftsmanship rather than a brand or an image. If you can afford them I doubt you'd regret buying a pair, they really are beautiful shoes.


----------



## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Il Signor Crispone said:


> They're very high quality, with a price tag to match. But you are genuinely paying for quality and skilled craftsmanship rather than a brand or an image. If you can afford them I doubt you'd regret buying a pair, they really are beautiful shoes.


Some of them are beautiful shoes.

These days, (and that might mean since the Prada takeover), Church's also make lots of really ugly shoes.
Polished leather or binder brogues with chrome studs all over them.
I've no idea what tasteless muppets would buy these monstrosities, but I passed the Church's shop in Regent Street today and they are on very prominent display in the window, so somebody must be attracted.










And even worse, the new Shanghai shoes, the ones I've seen are monks that look like they've been abused for 10 years without shoe trees.










https://www.styleforum.net/t/271571/churchs-new-shanghai-like-or-not

I saw these ones in the window of the Bicester outlet store and had to go in and check my eyes weren't deceiving me.
They are not cheap either. 
If ever a company had lost it's way, that company now is Church's shoes.


----------



## Il Signor Crispone (Jul 18, 2014)

Odradek said:


> Some of them are beautiful shoes.
> 
> These days, (and that might mean since the Prada takeover), Church's also make lots of really ugly shoes.


I agree completely. I have seen those monstrosities of which you speak, but had blotted them from my memory. Life has sufficient sorrows without dwelling upon Church's fashion range.

But if you want a pair of black cap toe Oxfords or a classic brogue, and can afford them, Church's are good. They have lost their way with the fashion crap, but the core range is still very nice.


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Correct on the Prada account. I think their basic shoe is over priced. The hand grade shoes are nice but then you're into the $700-800 range so it pays to look at other brands. They have a high end line that, they claim, is on par with John Lobb (I was told exactly this by a SA at the Chicago store) which coincidentally is priced also on par with JL. 

During their sales they have select models on sale for 40% off. That's about the only time I would consider looking at them. Otherwise, I don't find them particularly interesting.


----------



## g3org3y (Dec 30, 2014)

Odradek said:


>


:confused2: :wtf:


----------



## style417 (Jun 28, 2014)

I didn't realize that Prada had bought them.

Oh my, those monks are particularly horrible.


----------



## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Since the Prada takeover, Church's have been taken in some unexpected directions - no one can say they are hidebound by tradition. However, other Northampton makers, in my opinion, offer better value and quality - the prime example is Crockett & Jones, but you might also consider Cheaney. The latter firm, coincidentally, is now run by the Church brothers, who bought it following the takeover of their old firm.


----------



## Traser (Jan 10, 2013)

Odradek said:


> https://www.styleforum.net/t/271571/churchs-new-shanghai-like-or-not


Those are just plain nasty!


----------



## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> Correct on the Prada account. I think their basic shoe is over priced. The hand grade shoes are nice but then you're into the $700-800 range so it pays to look at other brands. They have a high end line that, they claim, is on par with John Lobb (I was told exactly this by a SA at the Chicago store) which coincidentally is priced also on par with JL.
> 
> During their sales they have select models on sale for 40% off. That's about the only time I would consider looking at them. Otherwise, I don't find them particularly interesting.


I think that's an excellent assessment. Let's put it this way, if I had to pick a shoe made by Prada to pay $700 for (and there are a lot!), it would be those. However I don't know that the shoes in general are of the same quality as the competition. For my money I'd rather C&J (or RL on the rare occasion the EG/GG-made English shoes go on deep discount).


----------



## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Traser said:


> Those are just plain nasty!


Yes, but we're not the target demographic. On the one side, you have EG, C&J, Cheaney,etc. On the other side you have Maison Martin Margiela, Rick Owens, etc. It's two entirely separate markets. Church's are merely trying to cover both sides. Now you might think that the latter side is ugly, overpriced, poorly made designer shlock made for fashion tragics with more money than sense who wouldn't recognise quality and classic style if it bit them in their low-rise squashed arses, but who behave like a Tasmanian devil on Red Bull for the right brand name, and that Church's is comprehensively selling out and trashing their legacy by marketing to people so willfully lacking in any sense of discernment or aesthetic competence, but I could not possibly comment.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I am not keen on Church, they do not seem to present an equivalent cost to quality ratio in comparison to the other Northampton manufacturers.


----------



## cheld (Feb 12, 2015)

Shaver said:


> I am not keen on Church, they do not seem to present an equivalent cost to quality ratio in comparison to the other Northampton manufacturers.


+1. Even setting aside the "fashion-forward" abominations displayed above, I find them the clunkiest looking of the Northampton shops (at size US 11-11.5 I have to be careful to avoid the clown shoe look). If you're keen on English styling take a look at C&J, Alfred Sargent or Cheaney. Carmina and Meermin out of Spain are also worth a look.


----------



## tas (Aug 10, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I am not keen on Church, they do not seem to present an equivalent cost to quality ratio in comparison to the other Northampton manufacturers.


Owner of a few pairs (so I don't think I have a negative bias) I tend to agree with the statement. Of course if you find something on sale...

Also the welt is on the large side usually.


----------



## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments. I have a very special pair of Church Grafton Brogues inbound at this moment.

I was able to get them for a fraction of their normal price...

These are a very different rendition of that model, classic and handsome indeed.

We will just have to wait and get a look at them when they arrive now won't we.

:cofee:


----------



## @ndrew (Oct 17, 2015)

*Vintage Church's*

I've been following the debate with interest about the difference in quality between pre-Prada Church's and those produced today. I recently acquired a lot of Church's, namely:

- Grafton brogues (size 80 F, last 73)
- Piccadilly 'monk' shoes (size 80 F, last 73)
- Charter brogues (size 100 E last 73)

All three pairs are marked 'London, Paris and New York' so I'm assuming that they pre-date the takeover by Prada. Am I right to think this? All three are brand spanking new and unworn, so I'm finding it difficult to believe they all pre-date 1994&#8230;

Whilst I see that Church's still produce a Grafton brogue, I have been unable to track down information (particularly comparative price information, as I eventually plan to sell these on) for the Piccadilly and Charter styles. Does anyone know if these models are still produced - and if not, when they went out of production, or which ones they equate to today?

In particular, the Charter pair has a very old-fashioned looking box, with a criss-cross design and graphics of shoemaking tools on it. To be honest it looks like a box from the 60s or 70s (something which seems to be backed up by the price label of £65.00), but again I find it hard to believe that these shoes have made it this far without ever being worn! Can anyone shed any light on when this style of box was being used?

This pair also came with Church's engraved and adjustable metal shoe trees, the like of which I've never seen before. Again if anyone has any information on these (how old, value, etc) I'd be mightily grateful.

Finally, amongst the lot were also 2 pairs of very worn Church's. I don't expect these have any value, but am loathe to throw them away. Apart from sending them to the charity shop (who probably wouldn't accept them anyway due to their condition), does anyone know if there is a place where old Church's go to spend their final days in dignity, or get revamped, upcycled or whatever?


----------



## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

StephenRG said:


> Now you might think that the latter side is ugly, overpriced, poorly made designer shlock made for fashion tragics with more money than sense who wouldn't recognise quality and classic style if it bit them in their low-rise squashed arses, but who behave like a Tasmanian devil on Red Bull for the right brand name, and that Church's is comprehensively selling out and trashing their legacy by marketing to people so wilfully lacking in any sense of discernment or aesthetic competence, but I could not possibly comment.


Beautifully put.


----------



## jeffdeist (Feb 7, 2006)

Despite their strange post-Prada offerings, original styles (e.g. the Consul) have not been updated at all. In fact, I find their lasts overly stodgy, more than Allen Edmonds.

This is a shoe I once sought, but find uninspiring today. Especially at $650.

https://postimg.org/image/9qfwlm4cf/


----------



## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

I can safely attest with all confidence that the sole pair of Church's that I own are of the utmost and highest quality.

This last sentiment leaves me desirous of yet another pair...


----------



## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

jeffdeist said:


> Despite their strange post-Prada offerings, original styles (e.g. the Consul) have not been updated at all. In fact, I find their lasts overly stodgy, more than Allen Edmonds.
> 
> This is a shoe I once sought, but find uninspiring today. Especially at $650.
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/9qfwlm4cf/


Be encouraged that they go on sale from time to time and at significant discounts to boot, or shoe in this instance.


----------



## DG123 (Sep 16, 2011)

Watchman said:


> I can safely attest with all confidence that the sole pair of Church's that I own are of the utmost and highest quality.
> .


I consider fit to be a significant component of footwear quality.For me, considering that they neglect fit by not offering multiple width sizing, none of English footwear brands are of "high quality"


----------



## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

DG123 said:


> I consider fit to be a significant component of footwear quality.For me, considering that they neglect fit by not offering multiple width sizing, none of English footwear brands are of "high quality"


My Friend,

May I ask where you are looking for your English made shoes?

Because the dear chaps on the other side of the pond most certainly offer their wonderful shoes in a multiplicity of widths.

I know because the Church 173 last shoe that I own is in a "G" width. Which is equivalent to US "E" or "EE"

Now then, the width options may not be quite as prevalent as their Americano counterparts, but they are available.

Thanks.


----------



## DG123 (Sep 16, 2011)

Watchman said:


> My Friend,
> 
> May I ask where you are looking for your English made shoes?
> 
> ...


Which English brand(s) offer multiple widths for a particular shoe model ?
As far as I know the English brands make use of different lasts (to allow for a range of upper patterns, shoe shapes and profiles etc...) but do not offer multiple widths within each last.


----------



## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

Some of the English makers do offer differing widths.

But yes, as you have suggested they typically just have narrow lasts in general.

There is one narrow last that I am thinking of by C&J, it is their handgrade last...

Here is the Pediwear site and you can search for narrow widths here:

https://www.pediwear.co.uk/


----------



## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

To say that English makers do not offer width fittings is too much of a generalisation. Shops may not carry a large variety of widths but most brands manufacture different widths especially made to order.


----------



## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

My pair of Chetwynds are my favorite shoes. They've been all over the world for the last 5 years and are still running strong.


----------



## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

I have many, many pairs of Church's shoes and can vouch for their general quality as I am quite hard on my shoes. They come at different price/quality levels. Their entry-level, which used to be (and may still be) called the 'City' line is to be avoided in my opinion (not very nice leather, inferior lining). Then there is the standard 'Custom Grade' which tend to retail around £400 - these are their best shoes, especially if you can get them on a good discount. Particuar favourites of mine were the 173 last (Consul, Chetwynd, Grafton, Amberley chelsea boot), the Philip oxford (not made any more sadly), and the Tenby/Tewkesbury/Taunton/Walcot last. Then they have a more expensive level, which have oak barked soles, and used to be the 137 last i.e. Lamport but this has also been discontinued and replaced with something else which is not quite as nice. Church's most expensive shoes have fantastic leather, but they are not of the same construction quality as Edward Green who they rival in price. 

If you take the Church's Custom Grade, they are considerably better quality shoes than Barker, Cheaney and Loake, and about comparable with Tricker's. C&J pip them for qualtiy so long as you can get along with their narrow lasts (which I find uncomfortable). Edward Green are a step up. 

Some other observations : 
(1) None of their shoes have closed channel soles 
(2) Their styles have always been more conservative (?boring) than you might find elsewhere such as C&J
(3) As has been stated already, the general quality may be on the slide and they are trying to become more fashionable (but you can say the same about Cheaney IMHO)
(4) They have a very good shoe refurbishment programme 
(5) They are popular and this pushes up the price -- but there are deals to be had and I've usually got mine for 20-50% off and sometimes more 

Church's take a lot of battering on the forums, but I have been very happy with my Church's shoes and they are my go-to shoe -- with winter coming the Graftons will soon be out !


----------

