# Places to avoid



## Langham

Recommendations can be both good and bad. Others might like to contribute to this if they have ever experienced disappointment with a hotel, a visit somewhere (maybe an entire country even?), or as in this case, a restaurant.

I can give further particulars if anyone is interested, but to be brief, let me just say this: avoid Jamie Oliver's restaurants.


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## Canadian

Avoid having lunch at the Nelligan in Montreal, unless wearing a suit. It's definitely where rich businessmen go to eat, and be seen. I fit in, but I could barely afford the lunch without dipping into my poutine budget.

Avoid a 59.99/night (or less) hotel, anywhere in northern Alberta (north of Edmonton). They're guaranteed to be filled with oil workers who like to drink, smoke and carouse. If you must stay, book ahead of time and ask for a quiet(er) room.


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## zzdocxx

This could get interesting.


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## Snow Hill Pond

zzdocxx said:


> This could get interesting.


Agree.

The diner that's empty at 8AM on a Saturday morning. If they can't get breakfast right, I would be concerned about the other meals.


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## Hitch

Applebees


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## yorkio

Langham said:


> I can give further particulars if anyone is interested, but to be brief, let me just say this: avoid Jamie Oliver's restaurants.


I'd be interested in the particulars, even if no one else is. The only time I've eaten in one of his restaurants was in Oxford last year and I remember being rather impressed.

I'll chip in with a place to avoid too - Oldfields in Durham. Ridiculously overpriced and one of the few places I've been served food I would genuinely describe as inedible. You'd be better off at Nando's, which says a lot about the fine dining possibilities in Durham!


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## Jovan

Canadian said:


> Avoid having lunch at the Nelligan in Montreal, unless wearing a suit. It's definitely where rich businessmen go to eat, and be seen. I fit in, but I could barely afford the lunch without dipping into my poutine budget.
> 
> Avoid a 59.99/night (or less) hotel, anywhere in northern Alberta (north of Edmonton). They're guaranteed to be filled with oil workers who like to drink, smoke and carouse. If you must stay, book ahead of time and ask for a quiet(er) room.


Apart from that it has a dress code (which most of us would applaud) and that it's pricey, why is Nelligan something to avoid? I feel like I'm only getting part of the picture here.


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## drlivingston

Jovan said:


> Apart from that it has a dress code (which most of us would applaud) and that it's pricey, why is Nelligan something to avoid? I feel like I'm only getting part of the picture here.


Perhaps, he is telling people to avoid it so that it is easier to get a reservation. :smile:


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## Langham

*Jamie's big disappointment*



yorkio said:


> I'd be interested in the particulars, even if no one else is. The only time I've eaten in one of his restaurants was in Oxford last year and I remember being rather impressed.


I'll have to confess first to being rather prejudiced against Jamie. I've never been taken in by his blokish TV banter, nor by his impoverished descriptive powers - 'whacking' things in ovens, 'sloshing', everything so easy easy easy. He irritates the hell out of me. Naturally it infuriated me that his last cookbook, or the one before that, proved to be British publishing's 2011 bestseller, presumably on the back of his dubious tie-up with a well-known supermarket chain.

Got that off my chest anyway. I've often walked past the restaurant in Oxford that you mention, but have never felt like going in, even without my Jamie prejudices - the tables are all so close together, and there seem to be plastic imitation hams hanging from the ceiling. If you're in Oxford, there are plenty of better places to eat.

So - I've never even been inside one of his restaurants, but my wife has, last week, to the Reading Jamie Oliver. I trust her discrimination and judgement implicitly and tried to discourage her from going, but she had no choice in the matter as she was going with a number of colleagues. She reported afterwards that the food was very poor indeed - she had a stuffed chicken breast, for want of anything more appealing on the menu, which tasted more like turkey apparently, and her colleagues' meals were also disappointing. Worst of all was that the restaurant started a sort of pub quiz over the tannoy, with someone barking out questions, and diners being browbeaten for answers. It killed the evening.

I was disappointed for my wife, but nevertheless secretly quite pleased to have my prejudices confirmed in this way. I believe Jamie grew up in a pub, so he probably thinks it's quite normal to have a pub quiz going on while people are trying to enjoy a quiet meal and talk to one another.


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## Jovan

Over here we call it "trivia night". But I agree it doesn't belong in a restaurant purporting to be fine dining.


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## salgy

Langham said:


> She reported afterwards that the food was very poor indeed - she had a stuffed chicken breast, for want of anything more appealing on the menu, which tasted more like turkey apparently, and her colleagues' meals were also disappointing.


This doesn't surprise me, celebrity chefs open restaurants based on their popularity & due to their popularity these restaurants stay profitable, but the food is always sub-par... The worst meal to date in my life was at emeril's in Atlanta (and I will admit to having feelings towards emeril similar to Langham's feelings towards Jamie Oliver)


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## Jovan

Lesson learned... don't go to restaurants that are just popular because of a name.


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## drlivingston

salgy said:


> The worst meal to date in my life was at emeril's in Atlanta


I ate at Emeril's in Orlando... It, too, was not worth a bam!


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## Haffman

Langham said:


> I've often walked past the restaurant in Oxford that you mention, but have never felt like going in, even without my Jamie prejudices - the tables are all so close together, and there seem to be plastic imitation hams hanging from the ceiling. If you're in Oxford, there are plenty of better places to eat.


The food in the Oxford Jamie's is overwhelmingly average and the ambience is similarly forgettable.

However, I must disagree with your final point, as I find central Oxford (as in the city rather than the villages) to be surprisingly poorly served with good restaurants.


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## Haffman

Harrods.

Whatever your views on Mohammed al-Fayed, the place is utterly soulless now.


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## Langham

Haffman said:


> I must disagree with your final point, as I find central Oxford (as in the city rather than the villages) to be surprisingly poorly served with good restaurants.


Perhaps it's not really central, but one of the best meals I have ever had was at the Cherwell Boathouse, two summers ago, which surprised me as it had been reasonably good 20-25 years earlier yet had managed to become even better, whereas experience has taught me to expect restaurants to be less good than I remember them from my youth. You might have a point though, as I was subconsciously including various village establishments in my earlier statement. I have looked in vain for various restaurants that I remember as being good in central Oxford - the Elizabeth, the Bleu Blanc Rouge are two - but they have gone.

Blanc's Brasserie in Walton St is another chain restaurant that I put in the same class as Jamie Oliver's, albeit marginally better food is served.



Haffman said:


> Harrods.
> 
> Whatever your views on Mohammed al-Fayed, the place is utterly soulless now.


I have disliked Harrods for a very long time, apart from the food hall.



Jovan said:


> Over here we call it "trivia night". But I agree it doesn't belong in a restaurant purporting to be fine dining.


I'm not sure Jamie Oliver even aspires to 'fine dining', but I feel he may be an impostor in any case.


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## Canadian

The Nelligan does not have a dress code. However, the atmosphere makes it clear that unless you want to drop a lot of coin, you shouldn't even go in the bar for a glass of wine. I had lunch there, a small sandwich and it was thirty dollars for a Coke and sandwich. I would hesitate to guess what the plat principal is but I would rather spend my money elsewhere.

Now, if I was staying at the Nellgian, I would eat there. But you need to know what you're getting into before you sit down. It strikes me as a place which sees a lot of business trips, but people who eat there probably have expense accounts far superior to mine.

There is nothing wrong with it, aside from being deceptively expensive. 

Tom


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## Snow Hill Pond

Downtown Columbus in the evening wearing the maize-and-blue after a Wolverine victory...


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## Jovan

Canadian: Damn... point taken. If I pay $30 for a smoked meat sandwich it would have to be one that made me kneel down and praise God for giving me tastebuds.


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## Snow Hill Pond

The objection to The Nelligan seems not to be in the spirit of the thread. It's akin to saying you should avoid the Bugatti dealership because all the cars are expensive.


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## Canadian

I diaagree. The Nelligan is deceptively expensive. You don't really know it's expensive till you see the menu. I was pointing out that one should avoid it, unless you are aware that you will have to spend a lot of money for something you can get down the block for a few bucks. It's in a tourist area, but it doesn't cater to the average tourist.

Tom


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## Jovan

Exactly what I was going to say. Your complaint seems to be that it's expensive for what you get, as in not commensurate to the quality. For that, I would definitely avoid it.


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## salgy

drlivingston said:


> I ate at Emeril's in Orlando... It, too, was not worth a bam!


:icon_hailthee:


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## Snow Hill Pond

Canadian said:


> I diaagree. The Nelligan is deceptively expensive. You don't really know it's expensive till you see the menu. I was pointing out that one should avoid it, unless you are aware that you will have to spend a lot of money for something you can get down the block for a few bucks. It's in a tourist area, but it doesn't cater to the average tourist.
> 
> Tom


It's been my experience that most big city hotels have restaurants like this where they charge prices that seemingly have no basis in reality.


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## Jovan

True, but I've never heard of or experienced anything quite that outrageous. Maybe a few bucks more at most. And it seems in keeping with the spirit of the thread telling us that, should we stay at the hotel, there's the same stuff for much less down the street.


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## Bjorn

Jovan said:


> Canadian: Damn... point taken. If I pay $30 for a smoked meat sandwich it would have to be one that made me kneel down and praise God for giving me tastebuds.


At Arlanda airport, a solid shrimp sandwich and glass of white wine cost me 50 $. But it was great. I knelt down and thanked, you know, evolution.


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## Snow Hill Pond

Jovan said:


> True, but I've never heard of or experienced anything quite that outrageous.


Oh don't worry...if you live long enough you'll see things that'll make The Nelligans seem like a bargain.


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## Snow Hill Pond

Bjorn said:


> At Arlanda airport, a solid shrimp sandwich and glass of white wine cost me 50 $. But it was great. I knelt down and thanked, you know, evolution.


A bought a 12 ounce bottle of water at the same airport for $10...and it was luke warm.


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## Bjorn

Snow Hill Pond said:


> A bought a 12 ounce bottle of water at the same airport for $10...and it was luke warm.


Try the Scandinavian Tapas Bar. Dreadfully expensive but good shrimps and great white wine.


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## Chouan

I'd second the Jamie Oliver comments. I dined at his "Italian" restaurant at Canary Wharf, at my wife's insistence. https://www.jamieoliver.com/italian/canary-wharf
It was dreadful. Crowded, noisy, not particularly good food, pushy waiters trying to get you to spend more, etc.
The last couple of places I've dined at in London I quite enjoyed. None are cheap, but all were good. The Gun ( https://www.thegundocklands.com/ ) which I used to drink in in my youth when in the West India Docks, but which is now a very pleasant gastro-pub, Smith's ( ) and The Trafalgar ( https://www.trafalgartavern.co.uk/ ). In Cambridge I liked Gros Franck's, ( https://legrosfranck.com/ ), near Newmarket is The Green Man ( ) and in Bury St.Edmunds is Maison Bleue ( ). 
The last place I really disliked has recently closed.


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## yorkio

Ha, guess we caught then on a good day then! There was certainly nothing wrong with the service on that occasion though, and the rabbit pappardelle was very good indeed. 

Either that or my standards have become distorted through living in the North East for too long…


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## tocqueville

Florida.


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## Jovan

We were talking about businesses... what do you have against Florida?


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## ZachGranstrom

tocqueville said:


> Florida.


lol, I agree.


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## ZachGranstrom

The roach coach near St. Joseph's. 

Never again will I trust that $5.00 lunch combo special.


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## drlivingston

Is Florida a restaurant? or are you referring to the state in general? In any event, fill us in on the details.


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## Shaver

Running with the 'unexpected expense' theme - anyone who has ordered a coke from a cafe right on the banks of the Seine will know not to do it twice. :icon_pale:


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## drlivingston

Shaver said:


> Running with the 'unexpected expense' theme - anyone who has ordered a coke from a cafe right on the banks of the Seine will know not to do it twice. :icon_pale:


The same goes for getting cokes anywhere near the Rialto Bridge in Venice. My wife and I had two small pizzas and one can of coke each. With the exchange rate at the time, it was US$90. :crazy:


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## zzdocxx

drlivingston said:


> The same goes for getting cokes anywhere near the Rialto Bridge in Venice. My wife and I had two small pizzas and one can of coke each. With the exchange rate at the time, it was US$90. :crazy:


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## justonemore

Perhaps the high cost of Switzerland has jaded me a bit but I'm not finding any of these prices as shocking. A club sandwich in any 5* hotel here is going for about $40. It's what happens when your staff count is higher than your guest count.


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## Odradek

Stumbling across an old thread, I'll throw in Tommy Burger in Los Angeles, especially the one in Santa Monica.

And I'd also avoid almost all Mexican restaurants in Europe. One possible exception in London.


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## Dieu et les Dames

Booooo.



tocqueville said:


> Florida.


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## Jovan

18|8 Fine Men's Salons.

Cut my hair way too short and it was rather uneven at that. I ended up getting it fixed but... for $30, it should be perfect the first time. The experience is mainly what they bank on, it seems. They have a nice waiting area and all with refreshments, but if they can't give a decent hair cut that doesn't matter.


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## drlivingston

Dieu et les Dames said:


> Booooo.


LMAO....


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## Shaver

It's gone now but the Hayfield boozer in Chapeltown (Leeds) took a brave or foolish man to enter. I drank there regularly, of course. You do the math. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Langham

^ From the report, it sounds quite an exciting pub. Nowadays, they just aren't ever as good, I find.


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