# What's Wrong with my Alden PTB?



## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Hey guys,
I got my cigar shell PTB a couple of months ago and I recently noticed what looks like the welt pulling away from the shoe. I certainly would not expect this from a shoe that cost me darn near $700. The shoes are a special order because of my narrow foot (8AA)...and I placed the order through the Alden store in NYC. Should I call the Alden store in NYC or call Alden up directly?

The frustrating part is that this right shoe has given me trouble right out of the gate. The left shoe fit(s) much better. When you look at the shoes in shoe trees, it obvious that the throat of the right shoe is bigger. I probably should have talked to Alden about this when I first got the shoes, but I was so excited that they were finally in, I just kind of ignored it and chalked it up to the shoes being hand made, inherent variability, yada yada yada.

How should I handle this? Should I be asking for a completely new pair of shoes? or just to repair the welt issues on these?

Pic of whats going on below:


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I'd send them back to Alden itself (not the store), with a polite letter expressing your dismay. They'll make it right.


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Perhaps the shoe trees with your name on them caused the shoes to cringe in horror at the narcissism...

LOL ;-)

Looking like you need to call old Alden up...


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Too bad, they have been looking really good in the what shoes are you wearing thread. I am dying for a pair myself.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

I know that makes you sick. I wouldn't be happy with a repair but I have severe OCD.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

Ughh, that's terrible. My sincere condolences. What a pain to have special ordered those and waited to get them only to receive them with such a glaring defect.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

A horror and a scandal. Send them to Alden post haste!


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Down with Alden! j/k :icon_smile_big:

No worries. I'm sure they'll fix them.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

I hope that they replace them. I am not too excited about a repair since 1) the throat of the right shoe is so much bigger anyways 2) there is a limit to the number of times that a shoe can have the welt replaced and I hate to use one of those times 3 months into the life of the shoe. 

Very frustrating indeed


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

As shop owner representing a high-end brand, I'd say that often-time the client guides the steps that the manufacturer takes to make things right. If the client indicates that a repair is an acceptable fix so be it. However, if the client diplomatically indicates that only a replacement will satisfy them the manufacturer will almost always accommodate them. I hope things work out to your satisfaction.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Well, it is a real lesson in life: nothing -- especially those things we put on pedestals -- is perfect. Except for the pair of Brooks LHS I'm now wearing, bought this afternoon!


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Well, I called Alden and told them about the issues with theright shoe and they asked me to mail them to them so that they could take a look at them. I'll post back here once I hear from them.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

YoungClayB said:


> Well, I called Alden and told them about the issues with theright shoe and they asked me to mail them to them so that they could take a look at them. I'll post back here once I hear from them.


Good to hear they were willing to have a look - I'm sure they'll take care of you. Alden's CS may not quite rise to AE levels, since they're a smaller, arguably more "crotchety" company, but they do know how to correct things like this.


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## tsasls (Apr 30, 2008)

I had a much more minor problem with a pair of shell NST where the threads on the quarters was coming loose.
Although I had no receipt,but the shoes were only worn indoors,the Alden store manager in SF replaced the shoes with no questions asked. In addition, he told me to not hesitate to bring any problems to their attention. I hope you will be able to get a replacement pair for your troubles.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

PeterW said:


> Well, it is a real lesson in life: nothing -- especially those things we put on pedestals -- is perfect. Except for the pair of Brooks LHS I'm now wearing, bought this afternoon!


Congrats, Peter. Nice acquisition.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

tsasls said:


> I had a much more minor problem with a pair of shell NST where the threads on the quarters was coming loose.
> Although I had no receipt,but the shoes were only worn indoors,the Alden store manager in SF replaced the shoes with no questions asked. In addition, he told me to not hesitate to bring any problems to their attention. I hope you will be able to get a replacement pair for your troubles.


I've spoken with the folks at the Alden store in SF and they were extremely helpful. I'm happy to hear that they took care of you...


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

*Please let us know how this works out Clay*

I think Alden will take care of you.... Might have to wait a bit before you get a new pair if they decide to replace them and not repair them. Please let us know how it works out for you....

I recently placed a special order through the Alden Store in NYC - will let you know how my order works out in 6 or 7 months!


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Well, Alden called me back today and right off the bat admitted that there was a defect and that they would repair the bottom of the shoe at no charge to me. I told them that I really wasnt sure that a repair was my best option since the shoes were only 3 months old and that this sort of repair can only be performed on a pair of shoes a certain number of times...and that I would hate to "burn" one of those times this early into the life of the shoe. The guy said he would call be back after he "went up" a level. He literally called me back less than 5 minutes later and without any discussion whatsoever said that Alden NYC would be crediting my credit card back with the full purchase price. I asked what that meant in terms of my shoes and he just said "we keep the shoes, you get your money back"...and that was kind of the end of it. I am certainly not dissatisfied with Alden's response to the problem, but I am not overly impressed either. Seems like they would have gone to some effort to take care of the re-order for me...or bump me to the front of the waiting list line for the special make-up....but alas, this IS Alden we are talking about.

I've really got some thinking to do...especially with the sale that Allen Edmonds has going on right now. I could easily score 2 pairs what what those 990's cost me. 

I also really wonder what they are going to do with a pair of 8AA shoes that have been worn pretty extensively for the past 3 months.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Not awful, but pretty weak: I recall that Eagle said that Quoddy, subject of a lot of criticism on price in a recent thread, fixed a defective pair and sent a new one, too.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

YoungClayB said:


> Well, Alden called me back today and right off the bat admitted that there was a defect and that they would repair the bottom of the shoe at no charge to me. I told them that I really wasnt sure that a repair was my best option since the shoes were only 3 months old and that this sort of repair can only be performed on a pair of shoes a certain number of times...and that I would hate to "burn" one of those times this early into the life of the shoe. The guy said he would call be back after he "went up" a level. He literally called me back less than 5 minutes later and without any discussion whatsoever said that Alden NYC would be crediting my credit card back with the full purchase price. I asked what that meant in terms of my shoes and he just said "we keep the shoes, you get your money back"...and that was kind of the end of it. I am certainly not dissatisfied with Alden's response to the problem, but I am not overly impressed either. Seems like they would have gone to some effort to take care of the re-order for me...or bump me to the front of the waiting list line for the special make-up....but alas, this IS Alden we are talking about.
> 
> I've really got some thinking to do...especially with the sale that Allen Edmonds has going on right now. I could easily score 2 pairs what what those 990's cost me.
> 
> I also really wonder what they are going to do with a pair of 8AA shoes that have been worn pretty extensively for the past 3 months.


That doesn't really surprise me. I didn't expect Alden to tell you "tough luck" but it seemed reasonable you'd be offered a repair or a refund. I agree this isn't overwhelming customer service; I'd say this is right at the level of passable. On the bright side, at least you got your shoes quickly. This would be far worse if you had to wait 9 month to get this pair.

If I were you, I'd ask if I accept the repaired shoes would it be possible to purchase another pair at cost (if you're interested) for the inconvenience. If they don't accept your counter-offer take your money and reevaluate if you wish to be an owner of Alden shoes.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

joenobody0 said:


> If I were you, I'd ask if I accept the repaired shoes would it be possible to purchase another pair at cost (if you're interested) for the inconvenience. If they don't accept your counter-offer take your money and reevaluate if you wish to be an owner of Alden shoes.


I agree that a straight refund, leaving you where you started before you placed the order, is a kind of zero-sum resolution. I think Alden would wisely gain your loyalty and good word-of-mouth by A) making the repair at no charge and B) giving you another pair, of your choosing, at cost. It's hard to suggest this to them. They should offer it, mindful of the fact that you will now not own any Aldens and, I'm guessing, be hesitant to buy another pair.

If you wish to gather a few such suggestions on this forum and forward them to your contact at Alden, feel free to use this one.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

well-kept said:


> I
> 
> If you wish to gather a few such suggestions on this forum and forward them to your contact at Alden, feel free to use this one.


As an owner of many Aldens, please feel free to use what I wrote in any conversation you may have with Alden in the future.

I vastly prefer Aldens to AE for every style of shoe but hearing this makes me uncomfortable. Their shoes are getting more and more expensive, and my customer services expectations start to rise for $600+ shoes. Now that regular stock Whiskey/Ravello/Cigar shoes are starting to cost $650+, the difference in price between Alden and someone like Ron Rider (or even Vass) starts to get close enough for me to start looking elsewhere.

Did you contact the shop you purchased these shoes from? I'd be interesting in hearing if they interject on your behalf. I'm attempting to insulate myself from this sort of issue by purchasing from stores that I feel would "go to bat" for me. I'd suggest Tom Park at Leather Soul.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Maybe I'm missing something - Alden gave a full refund for a defective pair of shoes (what else would they do if YCB rejected the repair option). He can now, if he chooses, place an order for the exact same shoes. He'll naturally have to wait since I'm guessing Alden doesn't have 8AA ptbs in rare cigar shell sitting around their factory. Is the wait the problem? He won't get "bumped" to the head of the line because, as in most factories, the machines are set up for certain shoes and he'll have to wait until it comes time to make a new batch of ptbs in cigar shell again (probably months).


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Cardinals5 said:


> Maybe I'm missing something - Alden gave a full refund for a defective pair of shoes (what else would they do if YCB rejected the repair option). He can now, if he chooses, place an order for the exact same shoes. He'll naturally have to wait since I'm guessing Alden doesn't have 8AA ptbs in rare cigar shell sitting around their factory. Is the wait the problem? He won't get "bumped" to the head of the line because, as in most factories, the machines are set up for certain shoes and he'll have to wait until it comes time to make a new batch of ptbs in cigar shell again (probably months).


You are right Cards...the more I have thought about it, the happier I am with the way this has been handled. To address your question that I would summarize as "Whats the big deal folks? He got his money back and is free to re-order or do whatever he chooses"...

In my line of work, my employer rates my performance each year in 2 dimensions...the 2 dimensions are "the what"...and "the how"....basically "what" you've managed to accomplish and "how" you've managed to accomplished it. The idea is that if you accomplished a great deal of work, but you managed to piss off everyone you work with in order to get it done, then that is reflected in your annual performance review.

So, in this situation, its certainly not the "what" that I am unhappy about. I mean if you look at it from my perspective, I was able to basically wear a pair of $660 shoes in a size and style that no store on the face of the planet stocks for three months for free. I mean, that is pretty amazing. This was my first pair of shell cordovan shoes and if I am being honest, I am not sure shell is really worth it (for me anyways...I am not trying to start a debate on whether shell is good or bad). I mean I was constantly brushing the shoes (~15-30 min after each wearing) and always nervous about water drops getting on them and causing welps. So getting my $660 back and being able to make a conscious decision on whether I liked the shoes enough in the first place to re-order them is pretty awesome.

Its really "how" Alden handled the situation and communicated the resolution to me that I have a problem with. The Alden representative that I spoke to was not rude, but I guess the best way to describe him would be "curt" or "short". The way that he explained the resolution to me honestly made me feel like that if I called up the Alden NYC store that they wouldnt really welcome me as a good customer...more like, "oh this is the guy with the narrow foot that we had to eat the cost of his shoes"...and I certainly doubt that they would be willing to knock a hundred bucks off the $150 MTO charge like they did for me the first time around.

So, how SHOULD they have handled it you ask:...well, The Alden rep should have just said. "Mr YoungClayB, I just got off the phone with the guys at the New York store and you have my word that we are going to make this right for you. You should expect a call from the manager of the NY store within the next 24 hours to discuss your options"...and then when the guy from the NY store called, he should have offered to place the order for me and said something like "hey, are you still good with this cigar color? were you happy with the PTB? what about the size? How did they fit? We really want you to be happy and if you want, we can change up your replacement order (style, last, size, color, etc) however you like"....

^^^Now THIS would have made me an Alden customer for life. But here I am, browsing the AE website wondering what shoe(s) I am going to buy with my $660. Sure, I absolutely have the ability to buy another pair of Aldens, but I feel kind of like Alden "broke up with me". LOL That may be overly dramatic but they made zero effort to keep me as a customer.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

^^^ I couldn't have explained my dissatisfaction in hearing your story nearly this well. This is exactly what I think the big deal is. 

I prefer Alden to AE, but the Shell Strand is a super shoe. Alden doesn't make anything like it and it would be the one AE that I might buy over an Alden. Such a wonderful shoe for $450 makes a very strong argument for AE.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I agree that they were overly abrupt in the way they handled things. As it's not a stock item, though, they were somewhat limited.

Just my opinion, but I think you would have been better off letting them fix them for you.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

I do think the response might have been somewhat different had this not been a special make-up - either way, if he wanted a replacement shoe, he'd have to wait months in all likelihood. That said, I think Alden's response is appropriate: they offered to repair, and when that was declined, refunded his money. In such an uncommon size, it's unlikely they had much that they could offer him in the way of shoes; certainly, they could have offered him his money back PLUS something else (say an at-cost order of shoes) but really, there's only so far you can go with that kind of thing when selling products that retail for this much. Remember, Alden is smaller than AE - it may not seem like it, since on the forums Alden gets just as much talk and praise as AE and perhaps more so in shell models - but they really do not have the huge customer support infrastructure that some companies have, and AE has to some extent. 

That said, I do think I'd be left with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth too here, YoungClayB. Vague feelings of disappointment and being let down would no doubt ensue. It's not that they didn't do RIGHT - it's that they didn't FINISH the job and KEEP you coming back by affirmatively going beyond. Hell, I bet you would have felt better with even just a conversation with the NY store manager and/or some small discount like "next time we'll waive the custom order fee entirely" - that doesn't lose them too much money, doesn't have any messy accounting involved, and most importantly, keeps you a customer! But really, like Alan said, they're just so limited by the stock issue - if you were the typical 9D or 10D or so, I'm sure they would have figured some alternative out.

I say the above never having purchased Aldens at retail (all my NIB's have been from other sellers) but having dealt with AE customer service several times and Alden customer service twice. Both have gone above and beyond for me, but there's definitely a feeling of a bit more "stodginess" with Alden that you don't get with AE. Blame it on New England, eh?


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

TheWGP said:


> Blame it on New England, eh?


Well, they _are_ Yankees...


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Thanks, YCB, for describing the kind of customer service you were expecting. I'm certainly sympathetic to your disappointment, especially since they were your first Aldens. That said, I've never experienced, from any company, the level of customer service you're describing that you wanted from Alden.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

they will fix or replace. 
but honestly I'm not surprised by this given some of my experienced with the craftsmanship of late.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

Cardinals5 said:


> That said, I've never experienced, from any company, the level of customer service you're describing that you wanted from Alden.


My experience last year with Edward Green might set a new standard. Green is almost certainly a smaller company than Alden. I sent an old pair of oxfords back to the factory to have resoled.

They put a scratch in one of the shoes, while performing the work. They sent me photos of the damage, which in my eyes was minimal. They apologized. They returned the resoled shoes to me without charging for the work. But here is where they distinguished themselves... they insisted on making me a new pair of shoes, any style I wanted, any leather or last, MTO, free of charge. I was almost embarrassed to accept them but to do otherwise would have been rude.

In behaving with such incredible generosity and by setting such a high standard for themselves they have earned my lifelong loyalty. This is what separates the men from the boys.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

That is an amazing story, very impressive!



well-kept said:


> My experience last year with Edward Green might set a new standard. Green is almost certainly a smaller company than Alden. I sent an old pair of oxfords back to the factory to have resoled.
> 
> They put a scratch in one of the shoes, while performing the work. They sent me photos of the damage, which in my eyes was minimal. They apologized. They returned the resoled shoes to me without charging for the work. But here is where they distinguished themselves... they insisted on making me a new pair of shoes, any style I wanted, any leather or last, MTO, free of charge. I was almost embarrassed to accept them but to do otherwise would have been rude.
> 
> In behaving with such incredible generosity and by setting such a high standard for themselves they have earned my lifelong loyalty. This is what separates the men from the boys.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

well-kept said:


> I was almost embarrassed to accept them but to do otherwise would have been rude.


Maybe not rude, but certainly insane. That is an impressive story.

What shoes did you order?


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

AlanC said:


> Maybe not rude, but certainly insane. That is an impressive story.
> 
> What shoes did you order?


Warwick in Edwardian. Every wearing is enhanced by the fact that they were a gift from the maker.

And I do feel that Alden and other high-end firms would be wise to err on the side of this form of graciousness. It is repaid in myriad ways and makes the world feel like a better place.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The Rambler said:


> Not awful, but pretty weak: I recall that Eagle said that Quoddy, subject of a lot of criticism on price in a recent thread, fixed a defective pair and sent a new one, too.


Your memory is spot-on, Sir. It was the first pair of lined boat shoes I ordered from Quoddy. It seems the stitching holding the sole to the upper was too tightly done and within weeks, the upper started pulling away from the heel portion of the right shoe. As instructed, I returned the shoes to Quoddy and in a surprisingly short period of time found a surprisingly large parcel from Quoddy Trail, delivered to my front door. Inside I found two shoe boxes, one with the original shoes, resoled and the other with a brand new pair of Quoddy boats, crafted just as I had originally ordered. When I called Quoddy to see if there had been some mistake, I was told that was their way of saying thanks for my patience!


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> Your memory is spot-on, Sir. It was the first pair of lined boat shoes I ordered from Quoddy. It seems the stitching holding the sole to the upper was too tightly done and within weeks, the upper started pulling away from the heel portion of the right shoe. As instructed, I returned the shoes to Quoddy and in a surprisingly short period of time found a surprisingly large parcel from Quoddy Trail, delivered to my front door. Inside I found two shoe boxes, one with the original shoes, resoled and the other with a brand new pair of Quoddy boats, crafted just as I had originally ordered. When I called Quoddy to see if there had been some mistake, I was told that was their way of saying thanks for my patience!


This level of customer service creates goodwill and a desire to support the company with future purchases; Alden's response creates a feeling of indifference in my mind. I think a free pair of shoes is probably too much to expect but the offer of a pair at cost is well within reason. After all, Alden did have the OP's money for some time. Consequently, he missed out on the time value of that money so a simple return of funds doesn't actually make him whole (though he did get free use of the shoes so this point is probably moot). This is of course besides the ill-will the transaction generated.


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## Ahheck01 (Nov 19, 2008)

well-kept said:


> My experience last year with Edward Green might set a new standard. Green is almost certainly a smaller company than Alden. I sent an old pair of oxfords back to the factory to have resoled.


 My deep desire for a pair of EG shoes (or three) has been multiplied, thanks to you, kind sir.


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## Bartolo (Mar 2, 2009)

AlanC said:


> Just my opinion, but I think you would have been better off letting them fix them for you.


Definitely. I think that the OP was overly sensitive, and not practical, with respect to the issue of how many times in his lifetime he'll _really _want to get them resoled.

And since when does the definition of "good customer service" include "fix the defective item for free and send me another one, free?"

I hesitate to bring up the other side of customer service, but I will. That is the rather meritless claims that merchants have to figure out how to deal with. I've been reading AAAC a while now, and I detect a trend towards 'let's get all we can out of AE and Alden or else we'll take our grievances public on the fora' in some (thankfully small) circles. This is the ugly side of "good customer service" and I submit that it's not a zero-sum game for any company; there really IS a reason why "we'll fix it for free and send you another one free" is not universal, especially among merchants who try to price their goods competitively. (Which does bring up why EG might be able to afford to make a new pair for free, given their retail prices. But that'd be the subject of another thread.)


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

The customer has received a full refund with minimal push-back. Sounds OK to me.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Bartolo said:


> Definitely. I think that the OP was overly sensitive, and not practical, with respect to the issue of how many times in his lifetime he'll _really _want to get them resoled.


If the welt pulling away from the upper had been the only issue, I probably would have been happy with a repair, but as you can see in the picture of the shoes with the shoetrees in, the opening of the right shoe was pretty distorted (larger opening circumference) and caused the right shoe to not fit very well - even before the stitching defect came to the surface. The biggest thing for me is that as a customer paying close to seven hundred dollars for a pair of shoes, you want to be treated special, and Alden's "soup nazi" attitude of complete indifference as to whether they keep me as a customer just doesnt sit right with me. I am not nor have I ever looked for a "handout" from Alden, AE, or any company for that matter.

The price difference between a "normal" dress shoe (i.e. one that would pass in a boardroom without looking out of place) and an Alden dress shoe is probably about the same as the price difference between the nightly rates of a "Comfort Inn" as compared to the Ritz Carlton. Anyone who has ever stayed in a Ritz Carlton knows that customer service is paramount and each customer is treated like they are special - its just part of the deal.

And like I said before, its not "what" Alden did is response to the problem, its "how" they did it. Its about like going to a restaurant and ordering a steak only to find it undercooked. If the restaurant is Applebees, then slapping it back on the grill is fine, but if you are at Ruth's Chris and its a $50 steak, then I would expect a new piece of meat because putting it back on the grill or oven just isnt as good as getting it right the first time. What Alden did to me is the equivalent of just taking the steak off my bill and then escorting me to the parking lot - still hungry.



Bartolo said:


> And since when does the definition of "good customer service" include "fix the defective item for free and send me another one, free?"


I am not sure if this was directed at me or not, but I never said this.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Orsini said:


> The customer has received a full refund with minimal push-back. Sounds OK to me.


Absolutely, it is OK. I hope that my continued posts are not interpreted as me saying that its not OK. All I am saying is that for a company like Alden who sells high end goods, having customer service that is "OK" is probably not what most customers expect...they expect exceptional instead.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

YoungClayB said:


> Absolutely, it is OK. I hope that my continued posts are not interpreted as me saying that its not OK. All I am saying is that for a company like Alden who sells high end goods, having customer service that is "OK" is probably not what most customers expect...they expect exceptional instead.


Your scenario of customer service is spot on here, YoungClayB.

The end result Alden offered you was fair, but their approach left much to be desired from a company selling, in essence, luxury item goods to a very discriminating clientele. In the end, Alden is competing against a market skewed towards cheaper foreign alternatives and customer service is one way to stand out and protect/build your customer base.

Yes, Allen Edmonds could write a book on this subject, and they are a bigger company. However, in this case, size does not matter when it comes to customer service. If I was running Alden, I personally would have been embarrassed as hell that a shoe with a flaw like yours ever made it out of the factory doors-and on a MTO, rare cigar shell upper to boot. A free repair job was a ridiculous offer-refund or exchange (of course noting the reality of constraints dictating a long wait time) should have been the first two starting points of discussion.

I help run a small company with 35 employees-when a customer has an issue it is "all hands on deck" until that problem is resolved, especially when it is our fault. Some companies get it, some don't. What works in Alden's favor is a firmly entrenched business and a great (usually) product. It appears they can afford a less than enthusiastic customer care attitude. I know we can't, especially during this recession.


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## djl (Feb 6, 2006)

YoungClayB said:


> So, how SHOULD they have handled it you ask:...well, The Alden rep should have just said. "Mr YoungClayB, I just got off the phone with the guys at the New York store and you have my word that we are going to make this right for you. You should expect a call from the manager of the NY store within the next 24 hours to discuss your options"...and then when the guy from the NY store called, he should have offered to place the order for me and said something like "hey, are you still good with this cigar color? were you happy with the PTB? what about the size? How did they fit? We really want you to be happy and if you want, we can change up your replacement order (style, last, size, color, etc) however you like"....


There are plenty on the forum who may be able to correct me or expound, but as I understand it, the "Alden Shop" in NYC is not a retail store operated by Alden. It's an independent retailer operating under license. Given that, it would be improbable to get the type of response/coordination you were hoping for.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

djl said:


> There are plenty on the forum who may be able to correct me or expound, but as I understand it, the "Alden Shop" in NYC is not a retail store operated by Alden. It's an independent retailer operating under license. Given that, it would be improbable to get the type of response/coordination you were hoping for.


If I may chime in again, with an Alden experience this time.

Three years ago I purchased a pair of shell lhs from Citishoes on Park Ave. They were ordered over the phone, delivered ups. I wore the shoes perhaps twice over a couple of weeks and the cross strap tore at the well-known vulnerable point where the strap, tongue and collar meet. I called the store and spoke to the man who had taken my order. He told me to send the shoes back to him and promised to take care of it. He returned the shoes to Alden. The strap was replaced. The shoes were returned to me, quickly and without charge.

The shop might have said it wasn't their problem. Alden might have done the same. But both retailer and manufacturer treated me like a valued client. The result is that I will be happy to do business with them again.

I did indicate that I felt Edward Green's approach was singular. I feel that my Alden issue was handled very well and I agree with Young Clay - it is not what happens, but often how it happens that leaves a lasting impression.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

YoungClayB said:


> Absolutely, it is OK. I hope that my continued posts are not interpreted as me saying that its not OK. All I am saying is that for a company like Alden who sells high end goods, having customer service that is "OK" is probably not what most customers expect...they expect exceptional instead.


What, specifically, did they fail to do that you felt they should have?

And when Orsini says "OK", that is like a normal person saying "highly satisfied."


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

AlanC said:


> Well, they _are_ Yankees...


I beg to differ - most New Englanders are Sox fans!:icon_smile_wink:


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

So, its been about a week and a half since the Alden "customer service" guy told me that I would be issued a refund and I still have not received the credit back to my credit card. So, last Friday, I called the NYC store to see what the holdup was and was told that they didn't do refunds for custom orders and that he would have to check with Alden to see how to proceed.

The NYC store called me back this morning and said that I would be getting a refund for $550...I asked why $550 and not the $660 that I paid for the shoes. I was then told that the "shoe portion" of the original purchase price could be refunded but that the MTO fee for the custom order couldnt be refunded. I about hit the roof...I cant recall exactly what I said, but the gist was something like: "let me get this straight, I placed a custom order for a pair of shoes and was charged $660...I wait 4 months for the shoes to be made...I wear them for 3 months only to have them start falling apart...and the amount of money that I am being refunded isnt even enough to buy a replacement pair of shoes in the same size and style!"...he said he would check on some things and call me back...when he called me back, he said that I would be refunded $650...still not what I paid for the shoes, but at this point, I am just ready to be done with it.

At no point in my dealings with Alden did they EVER offer up a replacement pair of shoes.

So, while all this is going on, I am exchanging PM's with Paul Grangaard (Allen Edmonds CEO) to see if there is any way that AE can make a PTB for me in my size and to my specifications. AE's 1 last (which is what the Leeds is made on) can only go down to a size 8.5A and I needed a 8.5AA in that last. Long story short, Paul and his team are going to slightly modify the Leeds pattern so that it can be built on the 5 last (which IS available in my size). The paperwork for the custom order was completed this morning and I will have my replacement PTBs in 8-10 weeks (Leeds on the 5 last in Brown Chromexcel with brown split reverse welt, Toby mini lug sole and 2mm Poron insole).

Its amazing that a small company the size of Alden can't even get their ducks in a row with their communications with one of their flagship stores, but that a large company like Allen Edmonds has a CEO that is so in touch with his customers that he answers private messages on AAAC with *solutions* and that he is on a first name basis and regularly talks to the customer service rep that I had been dealing with.

I will be an Allen Edmonds customer for life...they truly are *THE* great american shoe company.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

YoungClayB said:


> ...he said he would check on some things and call me back...when he called me back, he said that I would be refunded $650...still not what I paid for the shoes, but at this point, I am just ready to be done with it.


This story just keeps getting worse. Alden may be popular so they might not care, but I'm going to seriously think about going a different route with my future purchases - especially for any MTO offerings.

I understand you're tired of dealing with this and you're inclined to take what you can get, but if I were you, I'd be on the phone with my credit card company starting the charge back procedure. If ever there was an instance that called for a charge back, this is it.


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## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

joenobody0 said:


> I understand you're tired of dealing with this and you're inclined to take what you can get, but if I were you, I'd be on the phone with my credit card company starting the charge back procedure. If ever there was an instance that called for a charge back, this is it.


Always. People generally don't seem to understand that the CC company will cheerfully refund your money in the case of defective merchandise when the merchant is giving you the run around.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

If I were the OP, I would write a letter to the CEO/president of Alden and let him know what has occurred. I guarantee that they will not only give you all your $ back but they will make you a new shoe. The top guys don't want to hear that this is what is going on at the lower levels of the co. Especially when they hear that you have switched to AE because the AE CEO has heard your story.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Boy, I thought Alden was being "typical" in their first-round of trying to deal with this problem (not a great response, but average for most companies), but this is now getting much worse. The idea they're not going to refund for the MTO upcharge is crazy (and what's with the $10 difference later?). Definitely write to the CEO of Alden while simultaneously beginning the chargeback procedure with your credit card company.

Glad to hear Paul Grangaard at AE is helping out and you're getting a new pair. We look forward to seeing them when they arrive.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

YoungClayB said:


> So, its been about a week and a half since the Alden "customer service" guy told me that I would be issued a refund and I still have not received the credit back to my credit card. So, last Friday, I called the NYC store to see what the holdup was and was told that they didn't do refunds for custom orders and that he would have to check with Alden to see how to proceed.
> 
> The NYC store called me back this morning and said that I would be getting a refund for $550...I asked why $550 and not the $660 that I paid for the shoes. I was then told that the "shoe portion" of the original purchase price could be refunded but that the MTO fee for the custom order couldnt be refunded. I about hit the roof...I cant recall exactly what I said, but the gist was something like: "let me get this straight, I placed a custom order for a pair of shoes and was charged $660...I wait 4 months for the shoes to be made...I wear them for 3 months only to have them start falling apart...and the amount of money that I am being refunded isnt even enough to buy a replacement pair of shoes in the same size and style!"...he said he would check on some things and call me back...when he called me back, he said that I would be refunded $650...still not what I paid for the shoes, but at this point, I am just ready to be done with it.
> 
> ...


ycb,
i agree with the advice of both tonyp and card. i would send a copy of this email to arthur turlow ceo of alden shoe co


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Holy cow, it seems any claim to adequate customer service Alden had on this just went up in smoke. Everyone's already given you great advice, and I'm very interested to see how it turns out - but for now, the (granted, already super-slim) chance of my ever doing any MTO with Alden just vanished completely!

AE, on the other hand, continues to amaze with the CEO's personal service and attention to customers - but that level of service, in my experience, goes right on down the line to the bottom, which is presumably the issue Alden is having.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

No question I would write a letter to the Alden CEO explaining the problem. This is an instance when having a store go to bat for you would have been a big help.

Kudos to AE for being so accommodating.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

on a similar note.

i would say that 80 percent of the barrie lasted shoes i have had, seen, currently own, etc have one toe box that is significantly larger than the other. This is probably specific to the last in my size, but I encourage others to take a long look at their own pairs to see if this holds true at all across sizes.

if so, and even if it is just specific to my size, HOW DOES ALDEN NOT CATCH THIS!?


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

closerlook said:


> if so, and even if it is just specific to my size, HOW DOES ALDEN NOT CATCH THIS!?


Unfortunately to a lot of their customers these sorts of flaws are considered part of the "hand made" charm of these shoes. The fact that these shoes are nearly completely machine made is often never mentioned.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Ok...email sent. I'll keep you all posted on the response.

Dear Mr. Tarlow,
My name is Clay B. Xxxx and I am writing to tell you about my recent experience with the Alden Shoe Company. On March 15, 2010, I placed a custom order through the NYC Alden Shoe Shop on Madison Avenue. I ordered the 990 Plain Toe Blucher in Cigar Shell Cordovan for $660 - this was my "dream shoe"; I had dreamed of owning this shoe since the cigar shell color was first introduced several years back. Having never worn Alden shoes before, I had to do a lot of research to determine what my shoe size would be in the Barrie last&#8230;After much agony, I finally decided that I was an 8AA in the Barrie last.

On June 3rd, 2010, my Cigar Shell 990's were delivered (much quicker than I expected). They were beautiful - everything that I had imagined they would be. And the fit was as close to perfect as I could have asked for. The left shoe fit absolutely perfectly, but the right shoe felt a little "loose" out of the box for some reason. I had to really cinch down on the laces and even then, there was still some heel slippage in the right shoe. I was so excited to finally have my "dream shoes" in hand though; I didn't worry too much about this variation between shoes and trusted that once the shoes were broken in, everything would be ok.

Here is a picture of my shoes the first time I put them on my feet (Notice how the right shoe is laced tighter):

After a few months of wearing the shoes 2-3 times per week, I noticed a problem with the right shoe. It looked like the welt was pulling away from the upper.

Here are a couple of pictures of the problem with the right shoe:

As the problem gradually became worse, I finally called Alden customer service and they asked me to send the shoes in for inspection. About a week later, an Alden customer service representative called me back and right off the bat admitted that there was a defect and that they would repair the bottom of the shoe at no charge to me. I told the customer service representative that I really wasn't sure that a repair was my best option since the shoes were only 3 months old and that this sort of repair can only be performed on a pair of shoes a certain number of times...and that I would hate to "burn" one of those times this early into the life of the shoe. The customer service representative said he would call be back after he "went up" a level. He literally called me back less than 5 minutes later and without any discussion whatsoever said that Alden NYC would be crediting my credit card back with the full purchase price. I asked what that meant in terms of my shoes and he just said "we keep the shoes, you get your money back"...and that was kind of the end of it. The Alden representative that I spoke to was not rude, but I guess the best way to describe him would be "curt" or "short". The way that he explained the resolution to me honestly made me feel like that if I called up the Alden NYC store that they wouldn't really welcome me back as a good customer. 

If the welt pulling away from the upper had been the only issue, I probably would have been happy with a repair, but as you can see in the picture of the shoes with the shoetrees in, the opening of the right shoe was pretty distorted (larger opening circumference) and caused the right shoe to not fit very well - even before the stitching defect came to the surface. The biggest thing for me is that as a customer paying close to seven hundred dollars for a pair of shoes, you want to be treated like your business means something to the company that you are buying them from, and from my perspective, Alden's customer service showed an attitude of complete indifference as to whether or not they kept me as a customer. 

The price difference between a "normal" dress shoe (i.e. one that would pass in a boardroom without looking out of place) and an Alden dress shoe is probably about the same as the price difference between the nightly rates of a "Comfort Inn" as compared to the Ritz Carlton. Anyone who has ever stayed in a Ritz Carlton knows that customer service is paramount and each customer is treated like they are special - its just part of the deal. It's not "what" Alden did in response to the problem, it's "how" they did it. It's about like going to a restaurant and ordering a steak only to find it undercooked. If the restaurant is Applebees, then slapping it back on the grill is fine, but if you are at Ruth's Chris and its a $50 steak, then I would expect a new piece of meat because putting it back on the grill or oven just isn't as good as getting it right the first time. What Alden did to me is the equivalent of just taking the steak off my bill and then escorting me to the parking lot - still hungry.

At this point, I was not necessarily dissatisfied with Alden's response to the problem, but I was not overly impressed either. I was basically back where I started: no shoes, and not even in the waiting line&#8230;but the upside was that I could now make a conscious decision as to whether I liked the shoes enough in the first place to re-order them. The downside was that I really DID like them enough to reorder them, but the price of the shoes has gone up and I would have to wait another 6-8 months to get the new shoes.

So, at this point, it's been about a week and a half since the Alden customer service representative told me that I would be issued a refund and I still have not received the credit back to my credit card. So, last Friday, I called the NYC store to see what the holdup was and was told that they didn't do refunds for custom orders and that he would have to check with Alden to see how to proceed.

The NYC store called me back yesterday morning and said that I would be getting a refund for $550...I asked why $550 and not the $660 that I paid for the shoes. I was then told that the "shoe portion" of the original purchase price could be refunded but that the MTO fee for the custom order couldn't be refunded. This made me VERY upset...I can't recall exactly what I said, but the gist was something like: "let me get this straight, I placed a custom order for a pair of shoes and was charged $660...I wait 4 months for the shoes to be made...I wear them for 3 months only to have them start falling apart...and the amount of money that I am being refunded isn't even enough to buy a replacement pair of shoes in the same size and style!"...he said he would check on some things and call me back...when he called me back, he said that I would be refunded $650...still not what I paid for the shoes, but at this point, I am just ready to be done with it.

At no point in my dealings with Alden did anyone EVER offer up a replacement pair of shoes.

So, while all this is going on, I am exchanging emails with Paul Grangaard (Allen Edmonds CEO) to see if there is any way that AE can make a PTB for me in my size and to my specifications. AE's 1 last (which is what the Leeds is made on) can only go down to a size 8.5A and I needed an 8.5AA in that last. Long story short, Paul and his team are going to slightly modify the Leeds pattern so that it can be built on the 5 last (which IS available in my size). The paperwork for the custom order was completed yesterday morning and I will have my replacement PTBs in 8-10 weeks (Leeds on the 5 last in Brown Chromexcel with brown split reverse welt, Toby mini lug sole and 2mm Poron insole).

It's amazing that a small company the size of Alden has these sorts of communication issues with one of their flagship stores, but that a large company like Allen Edmonds has a CEO that is so in touch with his customers that he answers private messages on AAAC (Ask Andy About Clothes Forum) with solutions and that he is on a first name basis and regularly talks to the customer service rep that I had been dealing with. 

For as long as I can remember, I have admired shoes made by the Alden Shoe Company, and I have always dreamed of the day that I would be able to afford to purchase a pair of Alden Genuine Shell Cordovan shoes. I am truly blessed that I have finally reached a point in my career that I can afford such wonderful shoes, but based on my experience with my first pair of Alden shoes, it's really hard to imagine me coming back for more. Please don't get me wrong; I completely understand that every so often, a manufacturing defect will make its way out of the factory, but when that happens, I can only hope that your other customers receive better customer service than that which was offered to me. 

Sincerely,
-Clay B. Xxxxx


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

If that doesn't get you a new pair of shoes, free, Arthur Tarlow doesn't care about his company.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

I blame the hipsters. Seriously. 

You really have to wonder if anything that takes a shoe out of the normal production schedule is bad. It seems like "they" would take special care with a special order. Maybe "they" are way more concerned about big orders for J.Crew or the Japanese. The "they" that come to mind are Russell Mocassin, Alden, Quoddy.

I'm seriously disgusted with the couple pairs of Russells I have but love my four pair of Aldens. 

Making shoes ain't rocket science. I'm seriously thinking about taking a shoe making class. I'm good at that kind of thing. Anybody want to pre-order now? Get in on the ground floor...


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

ycb,
very well done


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Dragoon said:


> I blame the hipsters. Seriously.
> 
> You really have to wonder if anything that takes a shoe out of the normal production schedule is bad. It seems like "they" would take special care with a special order. Maybe "they" are way more concerned about big orders for J.Crew or the Japanese. The "they" that come to mind are Russell Mocassin, Alden, Quoddy.
> 
> ...


While I agree with the sentiment, the reality is more that without hipsters, Alden would have to shut down or ship jobs overseas. There simply aren't enough people making these types of purchases in these austere times. I know that if my company wasn't sticking sound systems in Audis and Astons they'd probably be a subsidiary of Samsung by now and this helps to calm me down when I have to wait 4 weeks to get a television made!


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

YCB - Outstanding letter. I, as others, look forward to the response.

GW


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

YCB: Excellent letter and good luck in your quest for satisfaction! :thumbs-up:


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Dear Mr. Xxxxx,
*
I have your email message detailing your experience with a pair of cigar cordovan bluchers in which*the*inseam (welt) stitching failed. Your letter raises a number of issues, and has been discussed at length here at Alden since its arrival. There is no doubt that the defect you encountered was due to a flaw in manufacturing. I understand and appreciate that you were looking forward to the shoes, and am very sorry that they were not up to standard.
*
The unfortunate reality is that with a custom single pair in size 8AA*our response options are a bit limited as compared to a style and size we could replace to you from our stock. Having decided you did not want the*shoes to be repaired, the only prompt response left to offer was a refund. I do feel confident that had you decided to re-order the shoes at Alden NY (or any of our dealers*authorized to*write*custom pair orders) you would have been able to do so. In fact,*had you decided to re-order the shoes, we would still have*processed a credit with the original dealer and started a fresh order*since the custom*make time*is substantial and we don't feel it*is appropriate to hold your money during the process.
*
One of the issues that stood out immediately to me was*that you were not*initially*offered*a full refund*on the shoes. As is standard practice in these situations we*contacted Alden NY requesting background information. The store owner remembered the shoes and the transaction,*and*related that the*refund offered was for the full amount paid for the shoes.*He*stated that the*only amount not refundable was a $10 shipping fee, which is*their store policy. At the same time he pointed out that your purchase price had not included the*additional charge of $150 that Alden applies to all custom single pairs, and*in light of that was*surprised that you*were*unhappy with his handling of the transaction overall.
*
Because Alden NY is an independent dealer*I do not have access to their*records, and am not in a position to make any judgment between the two different versions*of how the refund process was handled or of the overall transaction. Is it possible that*you first spoke with someone*at the store who was unaware that the custom charge had been waived for you in the original transaction?
*
Clearly, we*fell short of*our goal*to provide you with a product that gives you*a great wearing experience and full satisfaction. On behalf of all here at Alden I apologize for causing that disappointment.
*
Sincerely,
*
Arthur Tarlow
ALDEN SHOE CO.
Middleboro, MA 02346
(508) 947-3926
[email protected]
*
*


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## jhcam8 (Aug 26, 2008)

^ So, you did not pay the upcharge? Or is the store mistaken?


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Speechless. Unless AE goes belly up, Alden will never receive my business again.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

jhcam8 said:


> ^ So, you did not pay the upcharge? Or is the store mistaken?


It's not clearly broken down on the invoice but I clearly remember Ralph at Alden NYC reducing the MTO fee from $150 to $50.


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## Repp Stripe (Oct 6, 2010)

Mr. Tarlow laid it out pretty clearly. 

I still don't get what you expect for some reason.

And it sounds like your gripe should be more with the store than Alden (aside from the defect that lead to all of this). They are the ones who have been poor communicators and who have jerked you around a bit.


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## jhcam8 (Aug 26, 2008)

YoungClayB said:


> Speechless. Unless AE goes belly up, Alden will never receive my business again.


It's disappointing to have a negative experience, esp. with a seller who's enjoyed your custom for a period of time. I ran into a stone wall at RL a few years ago over an expensive suit with poor shoulders that couldn't be straightened out. My letter to Ralph went unanswered. To this day my wife won't enter an RL store and while I haven't quite sworn off, my custom is down 90% or more.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

So Mr. Tarlow admits the shoe is defective, but cannot offer you to have it remade on an expedited basis? You would think he would at least offer to put you at the head of the line since they goofed. Get back in line does not seem like a very good solution. 

Maybe they are not too excited about having to make an 8AA again. At least you got an apology, I guess.


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## Repp Stripe (Oct 6, 2010)

I get the impression that Alden's wait list is not just first come, first serve.

I think you have to wait for the next run of that shoe.

So the wait would be for the next run of plain toe bluchers in Cigar. 

Not really a practical way to just move a whole run up for one customer.

I could be wrong, however, about their process.


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## LanceW (Jun 2, 2009)

I read Mr. Tarlow's reply as "I'm sorry you are unhappy but consider it might be your fault."


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Reading Tarlow's response, I have to say I don't think Alden (the company) has necessarily done anything wrong. Alden NYC's approach to the refund was wrong from the beginning.

However, Alden (the company) hasn't done much here that was right, either. They've offered _acceptable_ customer service in refunding the money for the shoes, since they couldn't immediately send a replacement pair. But _exceptional_ customer service--the kind demonstrated by AE and EG--involves going above and beyond what's fair to please a customer and keep their business. Clay clearly isn't a crank trying to take Alden for a ride.

The mere fact that he was the victim of a manufacturing defect should have been a small incentive for Alden to do something special to keep his business. The fact that he had such a disappointing customer service experience should have been a much, much bigger incentive for Alden to do something special for him. How about an offer of a stock pair of another shoe (if available in his size) plus refunding the MTO fee? How about refunding his money and offering a credit towards his next Alden purchase? How about a promise to remake the shoes for him as fast as the factory could possibly get it done?

When AE messes up your (used) shoes, they eat $300 and send you a new pair. When EG messes up your (used) shoes, they send you your pair back, plus they eat $1000 and send you a whole new pair. When Alden messes up your (brand new) shoes, they eat nothing. It's fair, but sometimes fair isn't good enough.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

At least it didn't take him long to get back to you. You sent your email and said your piece. If they're still messing around with the refund you need to have your CC company issue a charge back. If not, it's probably just time to swear off Alden from now on. There are better shoes that don't cost much - if anything - more in similar styles. Check out some of the casual offerings from Vass if you're looking for something higher in quality.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Swear off Alden, what? You got your money back! Every cent but the shipping, which common. 

Agreed, it sucks you're without your favorite shoes, and yes, you should get bumped to the top of the line, that would be the nice thing to do, but at the end of the day, you got your money back. End of story.

JB


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

YCB:

Good email on your part. The response was basically I'm sorry but this is out of our control since we don't have direct access to NYC store books. Something is Rotten and it isn't in Denmark. Frankly, I think the CEO should sent you a $650 credit toward the shoe of your choice. That is what good CS is. The fact that the NYC store says you paid less than $660 can be quickly verified. In all honesty, you wound up with a slap in the face for trying to be a good customer. I certainly would take my business elsewhere. Alden certainly does not have the best QC. I have many Alden SC shoes and there is usually a minor defect in each one. Certainly companies like EG, Lobb, C&J don't let stuff out of their factories with some of the defects I find on Aldens.


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## Repp Stripe (Oct 6, 2010)

Expecting a free pair of $500+ shoes is unreasonable.

Sure, it sounds great that other companies have done it in the past (although that may say more about the markup on their shoes than their commitment to service), but it is not reasonable. 

Alden offered a refund or repair. I probably would've taken the repair and asked about the possibility of a partial refund considering the defect. Or, take the full refund.

I've got no horse in this race. I own no Alden shoes.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

Repp Stripe said:


> I still don't get what you expect for some reason.


Mr. Tarlow simply offered an apology for falling short of his company's goals and for my disappointment. I would have liked to have seen some action on his part that would have caused me not to be disappointed...I dont know a few things that I might have offered if I were the CEO:
- Alden repairs my shoes and sends them back while at the same time starting the process of making me a new pair. When the new pair is ready they offer to ship them to me as soon as they receive the repaired pair. As the CEO, this is precisely what I would have done.

Some other options that would be sort of going above and beyond: 
- Allow me to buy my repaired defective shoes back from them as "seconds"...basically allowing me to keep the repaired shoes but while also offering a partial refund.
- allow me to pay for the repair service on my defective shoes and send them back to me (in addition to the refund)

Hell, an Alden t-shirt might have even been nice. lol



Orgetorix said:


> Reading Tarlow's response, I have to say I don't think Alden (the company) has necessarily done anything wrong. Alden NYC's approach to the refund was wrong from the beginning.
> 
> However, Alden (the company) hasn't done much here that was right, either. They've offered _acceptable_ customer service in refunding the money for the shoes, since they couldn't immediately send a replacement pair. But _exceptional_ customer service--the kind demonstrated by AE and EG--involves going above and beyond what's fair to please a customer and keep their business. Clay clearly isn't a crank trying to take Alden for a ride.
> 
> ...


I like how you worded this. Thanks



joenobody0 said:


> At least it didn't take him long to get back to you. You sent your email and said your piece. If they're still messing around with the refund you need to have your CC company issue a charge back. If not, it's probably just time to swear off Alden from now on. There are better shoes that don't cost much - if anything - more in similar styles. Check out some of the casual offerings from Vass if you're looking for something higher in quality.


Yeah, I am over it. My credit card was credited back yesterday and the head honcho of Alden has heard my story and seems to be fine with losing my business - so, I am fine with taking it elsewhere. Its disappointing more than anything because I really wanted to be an Alden fan; I liked knowing that the price that I was paying for a pair of shoes was helping to keep american workers employeed and to keep a dying craft alive in the United States.

This whole experience hasnt been the greatest but it hasnt been the worst either. I probably wont boycott Alden for life or anything or try to dissuade others from purchasing their products, but for the time being, AE is getting my business. If I ever do decide to purchase from Alden again, I will be going into it with my eyes wide open.



Joe Tradly said:


> Swear off Alden, what? You got your money back! Every cent but the shipping, which common.
> 
> Agreed, it sucks you're without your favorite shoes, and yes, you should get bumped to the top of the line, that would be the nice thing to do, but at the end of the day, you got your money back. End of story.
> 
> JB


Agree


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Tonyp said:


> I have many Alden SC shoes and there is usually a minor defect in each one. Certainly companies like EG, Lobb, C&J don't let stuff out of their factories with some of the defects I find on Aldens.


I'm sorry, what? Why are you buying shoes with defects of any size, especially shell cordovan? You have "many" pair and each has a defect? Why are you still buying Aldens?

JB


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

The reply from Tarlow seemed a bit pointless and exemplifies what I said earlier about Alden. Contrast it to YCB's communications with AE and the custom job they are doing for him on the Leeds--talk about bending over backwards. There is no reason why Alden can't walk another pair of YCB's shoes through the factory. Have you seen G-man's factory tour pics from the TWO times the AE CEO personally walked him through the AE factory while they made a pair of shoes for him? It can be done, Alden just chooses not to. I would venture to say that if AE got aggressive on the variety of shell colors and styles that Alden offers that they could hurt Alden's business very very badly.

Oh and I e-mailed Alden's C/S with a last question over a week ago--still awaiting a reply.

YCB--you got hosed.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

The only thing I'm confused about is whether you got a FULL refund back or not - there seemed to be some question of a $50 MTO fee or something, so I'll just ask: how short, for whatever reason, was your refund when it hit your credit card? 

Honestly, I think making you foot the shipping bill is ridiculous from a customer service perspective, but I wouldn't complain about it since it's just a shipping fee and, well, UPS (or whoever) already got paid for delivering the package! The MTO fee, or a $50 part of it, would be 100% unacceptable - it sounds like there's some confusion about what exactly happened there.


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

TheWGP said:


> The only thing I'm confused about is whether you got a FULL refund back or not - there seemed to be some question of a $50 MTO fee or something, so I'll just ask: how short, for whatever reason, was your refund when it hit your credit card?
> 
> Honestly, I think making you foot the shipping bill is ridiculous from a customer service perspective, but I wouldn't complain about it since it's just a shipping fee and, well, UPS (or whoever) already got paid for delivering the package! The MTO fee, or a $50 part of it, would be 100% unacceptable - it sounds like there's some confusion about what exactly happened there.


In March 2010, I paid $660 which included a $50 MTO fee but no shipping as I was told that shipping was free. I was refunded $650 and they said the discrepancy was because the $20 shipping fee wasnt refundable. I told them I didnt pay shipping and they said that the $20 fee was standard...yada yada yada. I guess arithmetic (or record keeping) isnt one of their strongsuits. Oh, AND I also came out of pocket about $15 to ship them back to Alden when the manufacturing defect surfaced. So, at the end of the day, I was out ~$25.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
While I am sympathetic with the reality that at the end of the day you are without your "dream shoes" and are out $25 as well, isn't that simply the bane of on line shoppers. A while back I tried unsuccessfully to purchase a sport jacket that I really, really wanted to call my very own. Three jackets into this effort, I did not have a jacket that fit, the vendor had no sale, I was out $47 in return shipping fees and the vendor was out whatever it was that they had spent. Certainly not a favorable ending but, it was real...sad! As I frequently find myself telling my grandsons, when things haven't gone their way..."That's just the way things work sometimes. Time to suck it up and move on, boys!"


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## jhcam8 (Aug 26, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> While I am sympathetic with the reality that at the end of the day you are without your "dream shoes" and are out $25 as well, isn't that simply the bane of on line shoppers. A while back I tried unsuccessfully to purchase a sport jacket that I really, really wanted to call my very own. Three jackets into this effort, I did not have a jacket that fit, the vendor had no sale, I was out $47 in return shipping fees and the vendor was out whatever it was that they had spent. Certainly not a favorable ending but, it was real...sad! As I frequently find myself telling my grandsons, when things haven't gone their way..."That's just the way things work sometimes. Time to suck it up and move on, boys!"


Sage advice, Eagle - balancing the reward of getting something you couldn't otherwise v. the risk of paying some back and forth shipping. You decide if it's worth it.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Well, I guess the $25 or so isn't all that bad. I think Tarlow's point is just that 'well what else do you want?' and since your size is so tricky I do see what he's saying... but yeah, they don't seem too concerned to lose your business. Oh, well.

It would have been good customer service to refund you for the shipping - heck, even places like Amazon have figured that out - don't make customers pay for shipping when the problem is on your end! Eagle is right, though - suck it up and move on. AE provides much more in the way of customer service, though I wouldn't go so far as to say "never buy Alden again!"


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## Bartolo (Mar 2, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> While I am sympathetic with the reality that at the end of the day you are without your "dream shoes" and are out $25 as well, isn't that simply the bane of on line shoppers. A while back I tried unsuccessfully to purchase a sport jacket that I really, really wanted to call my very own. Three jackets into this effort, I did not have a jacket that fit, the vendor had no sale, I was out $47 in return shipping fees and the vendor was out whatever it was that they had spent. Certainly not a favorable ending but, it was real...sad! As I frequently find myself telling my grandsons, when things haven't gone their way..."That's just the way things work sometimes. Time to suck it up and move on, boys!"


I agree with your general sentiments, and these hassles are why I don't do a lot of online purchasing of not-known-to-me items, but let's remember that the ONLY thing wrong here is the manufacturing defect(s) in the shoes. I'd think that, that being the case, Alden would make the op "whole."


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## El_Abogado (Apr 21, 2009)

There are only three options:

1. Get the pair repaired for free.
2. Get a new pair made for you in the usual amount of time or less.
3. Get your money back.

You got your money back and you were offered repair, which you turned down. You make too much of your experience.


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## but_ch (May 4, 2010)

YoungClayB:

I'm with you. Your experience has turned you away from Alden. Probably others as well, myself included. That in itself is reason enough for a company to go above and beyond in customer service to make the customer satisfied. The posters that think otherwise probably have never worked in customer service. 

When you screw up, as a business, it is your responsibility to 1. Fix the problem, and 2. Make sure the customer will come back. That's 101 level stuff, folks. 

Imagine how much better this would have went if someone, anyone would have asked, "What can I do to fix this?" Instead, the response was "sorry." Not good enough. My boss would have fired me. 

The CEO of Alden basically laid the blame on Alden NYC and turned it into a "he said, she said" and stayed out of it. But he's the CEO. 

I have personally eaten more cost than that to satisfy a customer, and I'm not the owner of Alden or the owner of my business. In the end, keep them coming back. You make more money down the road.


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