# Has anyone got nasty with you over the way you're dressed?



## miurasv (Jan 11, 2010)

The other night I wore Crombie pink cords and Crombie Country Olive Coat with a white shirt, burgundy pocket square/handkerchief and Cheeney Crocodile (mock) boots and somebody I knew got so aggressive and nasty with me about the way I was dressed that the barman at the club I was in noticed and he got the bouncers to throw the guy out. Has anything similar happened to you?

https://www.crombie.co.uk/p/Category_Men_Coats/4629.htm

https://www.crombie.co.uk/p/Category_...ts/60059TR.htm


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Not since I was about 9 years old. How in the world did the trouble start?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

miurasv said:


> The other night I wore Crombie pink cords and Crombie Country Olive Coat with a white shirt, burgundy pocket square/handkerchief and Cheeney Crocodile (mock) boots and somebody I knew got so aggressive and nasty with me about the way I was dressed that the barman at the club I was in noticed and he got the bouncers to throw the guy out. Has anything similar happened to you?
> 
> https://www.crombie.co.uk/p/Category_Men_Coats/4629.htm
> 
> [URL="https://www.crombie.co.uk/p/Category_...ts/60059TR.htm"]https://www.crombie.co.uk/p/Category_...ts/60059TR.htm


Yes, but they were much nicer after they got back up. 

Though I confess my personal tastes run counter to moc-croc and a burgundy PS with red cords.


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

Flanderian said:


> Yes, but they were much nicer after they got back up.


You leave them in good enough shape to get up? If I'm forced to engage in the "old ultra violence"*, I want them to at least get a ride in an ambulance.:icon_smile_big:

* quote from A Clockwork Orange


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

*You were in a pub/bar, someone drunk may have wanted a fight and got kicked out - seems like a usual night at a British pub.*

I have had people make comments in the past, Fair Isle sweater (although it is also had good comments), tweed jacket, etc; however, never any one getting aggressive. His aggression probably had more to do alcohol than it did your clothes.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Red cords do have associations with a certain type of toff. And you had a covert coat and pocket handkerchief as well. And Cardiff is a bit lively at weekends anyway.


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## Mongo (May 9, 2008)

<punches horse> :deadhorse-a:

What bad man say about Mongo clothes?


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## oroy38 (Nov 11, 2009)

Usually my friends back home give me a hard time about the way I dress, and maybe a joke here and there from friends here at school, but generally nobody's ever gotten "nasty."

I usually ignore it, but I was having a bad day once and someone made some stupid remark about the way I dressed. To which I replied:

Oh, then please give me the location of the homeless person you stole your clothes from so that I can look as sloppy and disgusting as you. 

Probably not the most mature response, but it seemed to get them to leave me alone.


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## miurasv (Jan 11, 2010)

ToryBoy said:


> *You were in a pub/bar, someone drunk may have wanted a fight and got kicked out - seems like a usual night at a British pub.*
> 
> I have had people make comments in the past, Fair Isle sweater (although it is also had good comments), tweed jacket, etc; however, never any one getting aggressive. His aggression probably had more to do alcohol than it did your clothes.


He'd had a few to drink, as had I but he got really aggressive saying that I looked like a clown and pathetic. It was totally unprovoked. Some women had come up to me though and said they liked my clothes which he witnessed.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

No. I have to throw them out myself...


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Perhaps some forethought about your choice of friends, choice of clothing and combinations thereof....


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

miurasv said:


> He'd had a few to drink, as had I but he got really aggressive saying that I looked like a clown and pathetic. It was totally unprovoked. Some women had come up to me though and said they liked my clothes which he witnessed.


At first I thought you might have a problem with fighting, but it seems like you need to work on Noel Coward type witty rejoiners, like " Well your mom didn't say I looked like a clown, but to be fair she mightn't have had the best vantage point, being on her knees and with my **** in her mouth her speech was probably somewhat impeded".:icon_smile:


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*In the US, this will happen in bars where the usual denizens ...*

wear jeans, t-shirts, and a baseball cap. I've had it happen to me, but I've usually ignored it and left. Not wearing what you were wearing, but a suit with tie and pocket square. At the nicer places, ir has never happened.


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## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

I've had lots of bad comments, or people offended that I'm wearing a suit (or more confused sometimes!). 
But I also get great comments all the time.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Not in a long time.


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## I Like Dancing (Nov 13, 2007)

Dont think so. There should never be a reason to get "nasty" with another man the way one is dressed, especially in a club. The only reason to get nasty is if you came with people to the club and got turned down at the door because of the way you chose to dress.

The only time I witnessed something close to being nasty is when my friend was in a nightclub washroom, I stepped in and seen my friend adjusting his pocket square in the mirror and some pretencious guy said something to him. My friend didn't say a word back...I just remember the end of what he said being "....you aren't that good looking". As I finished up at the urinal I responded (while having some intoxicating effects kicking in) by questioning that guys sexual orientation.

As I made the "busy" washroom silent, I proceeded to wash my hands, dry them and adjust my own attire.


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## Lowndes (Feb 25, 2008)

I thought this post was going to go in a different direction when I read the title.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

ToryBoy said:


> *You were in a pub/bar, someone drunk may have wanted a fight and got kicked out - seems like a usual night at a British pub.*
> 
> I have had people make comments in the past, Fair Isle sweater (although it is also had good comments), tweed jacket, etc; however, never any one getting aggressive. His aggression probably had more to do alcohol than it did your clothes.


What sort of pub do you frequent? I have never found that - there again I don't go in pubs in centres where the average age is 17 or on council estates where it is 16.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL, I haven't had anything like that happen to me since I was a teenager in high school. Back then I reacted a bit more immaturely than I would these days but then again, that was 45+ years ago! I don't think anyone picks on a person my age. However, if they do, I'll pull out my AARP Membership card and let em know just who they are messing with! :thumbs-up:


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

Yes, something similar has happened to me. It was a couple of years ago, though.

I was downing a few in a local establishment when a perfect stranger sitting next to me at the bar asked me what color was the tie I was wearing. Well, I'm thinking, I don't have to take this from you, so I stood up and laid him out with one punch, then finished my brew. I think it was a Guinness, out a bottle. I definitely prefer it on tap, however, nothing compares to the real thing in Ireland. Galway, if you don't mind.


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## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

In my 20s I did find that wearing a suit or even dress pants to a "white trash" (sorry I can not think of a better term, it was what it was...) bar would get you some stink eye. They all thought you were a cop (narc). Of course I don't go to those bars anymore.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Best thread in a while, thanks. :icon_smile:


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> Red cords do have associations with a certain type of toff. And you had a covert coat and pocket handkerchief as well. And Cardiff is a bit lively at weekends anyway.


Had to look up "toff." I like it.


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## El Ruso (Jan 7, 2010)

Relayer said:


> Yes, something similar has happened to me. It was a couple of years ago, though.
> 
> I was downing a few in a local establishment when a perfect stranger sitting next to me at the bar asked me what color was the tie I was wearing. Well, I'm thinking, I don't have to take this from you, so I stood up and laid him out with one punch, then finished my brew. I think it was a Guinness, out a bottle. I definitely prefer it on tap, however, nothing compares to the real thing in Ireland. Galway, if you don't mind.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)




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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Quite a few ladies have got "nasty" with me due to my peacock suits........


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Aren't you married?


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Scoundrel said:


> Aren't you married?


I said have. As in past tense.

I wouldn't describe myself as a peacock anymore either.....


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## cbird (Oct 27, 2006)

No one's ever been nasty to me, but I recall a bartender's recounting of an exchange: a customer he knew walked in wearing a pinkish shirt, the bartender states "a real man would never wear pink," the customer replies "it's not pink, it's salmon!," then the bartender finishes with "but what kind of a man can you be if you know that it's salmon?"


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Relayer said:


> Yes, something similar has happened to me. It was a couple of years ago, though.
> 
> I was downing a few in a local establishment when a perfect stranger sitting next to me at the bar asked me what color was the tie I was wearing. Well, I'm thinking, I don't have to take this from you, so I stood up and laid him out with one punch, then finished my brew. I think it was a Guinness, out a bottle. I definitely prefer it on tap, however, nothing compares to the real thing in Ireland. Galway, if you don't mind.


I can't imagine what would have happened had he asked the color of your socks!!!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

dfloyd said:


> *In the US, this will happen in bars where the usual denizens ...*
> 
> wear jeans, t-shirts, and a baseball cap.


When I lived in Nashville I often went to some real dive music hangouts in a coat and tie without anyone saying a word to me about what I was wearing. My personal favorite was the Springwater Supper Club.










I also stopped by a biker bar, the Bikini Beach Lounge, one afternoon in a coat and tie. I not only enjoyed a cold brew but even shot a game of pool without a word being said by anyone, and at 150 pounds I don't think anyone was afraid of me. :icon_smile_big:

Having said that, I will admit that I wasn't dressed in pink pants and a coat like that worn by the OP. No offense to anyone who likes that but I suspect that such attire would draw attention at many establishments in the U.S.; and not just those where the patrons are wearing baseball caps.

Cruiser


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> I'll pull out my AARP Membership card and let em know just who they are messing with!


I just whack them with my cane.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

miurasv said:


> The other night I wore Crombie pink cords and Crombie Country Olive Coat with a white shirt, burgundy pocket square/handkerchief and Cheeney Crocodile (mock) boots and somebody I knew got so aggressive and nasty with me about the way I was dressed that the barman at the club I was in noticed and he got the bouncers to throw the guy out. Has anything similar happened to you?
> 
> https://www.crombie.co.uk/p/Category_Men_Coats/4629.htm
> 
> [URL]https://www.crombie.co.uk/p/Category_...ts/60059TR.htm[/URL]


Hello there, I don't know if you're from South Wales or elsewhere, but you went into a pub in Cardiff, a notoriously violent working class city, dressed like a country squire or a weekending stockbroker down from London, so I can't say I'm surprised you got grief for your choice of clothes, I'm not condoning it, I'm just not surprised, especially in Cardiff. What does surprise me though is that it was somebody you knew.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> When I lived in Nashville I often went to some real dive music hangouts in a coat and tie without anyone saying a word to me about what I was wearing.
> 
> I also stopped by a biker bar, the Bikini Beach Lounge, one afternoon in a coat and tie. I not only enjoyed a cold brew but even shot a game of pool without a word being said by anyone, and at 150 pounds I don't think anyone was afraid of me. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Cruiser


Age has its advantages. People still have an innate tendency to defer to their seniors. While mugging could be a problem, most (unless they are complete scumbags) will not pick a fight with someone from an older generation.


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## LilacCords (Apr 28, 2009)

What David Reeves said :icon_smile_big:


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> When I lived in Nashville I often went to some real dive music hangouts in a coat and tie without anyone saying a word to me about what I was wearing. My personal favorite was the Springwater Supper Club.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Someone has to say it: In a thread about sartorially provoked public-house unpleasantness, those have to be three of the world's_ least_ threatening-looking bar patrons (the "gang sign" that the one in the middle is trying to flash doesn't help, even if it _is_ "pretty fly for a white guy"). If they said anything about my pink cords, I'd give 'em the what-for, I'll tell you what--and that ain't no hooey. What would they do in retaliation, try to bludgeon me with their "Flight of the Conchords" DVDs?:icon_smile_wink:

As for our OP, to put it in regional terms that I can understand, it sounds like he showed up at the old Hammerjacks under the freeway in Baltimore (anyone remember that place?) dressed as if headed for the fall running of the Gold Cup out at The Plains in Fauquier County. The reaction he got probably should not have been all that surprising. I don't condone bad manners, but bars are almost by definition places of lowered inhibitions, so any clothing that's attention-getting (whether for well or ill) in a sober setting should be expected to work its influence even more intensely among drunks.

Crayon-colored pants and busy plaid overcoats are probably best avoided altogether, at any rate.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

It's not a gang sign he's making, it's the heavy metal horns. A lot of people do that in greeting or just for fun when & wherever the feeling arises.:icon_smile:

I take it you've never been to a metal gig! :icon_smile:


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> It's not a gang sign he's making, it's the heavy metal horns. A lot of people do that in greeting or just for fun when & wherever the feeling arises.:icon_smile:
> 
> I take it you've never been to a metal gig! :icon_smile:


Oh, really? I thought he might be a Texas Longhorns fan.

But you're right, I'm completely unfamiliar with the most overused (save for one) hand gesture of the last 30 years.:aportnoy:

I take it you're not really an earl.:icon_smile:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I couldn't agree more, it's not that it's extremely overused, it's more that it's used inappropriately by people at punk and hard rock gigs who think they're listeningg to metal and can't tell the difference anyway :icon_smile_big:

Me, not an Earl? Good god man what are you suggesting? :icon_smile_wink:

Username due to my father's ancestors.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> it's used inappropriately by people at punk and hard rock gigs who think they're listeningg to metal and can't tell the difference anyway :icon_smile_big:


Ronnie James Dio and the lads from Spinal Tap would be appalled.


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## Benjamin E. (Mar 2, 2007)

I was at a BBQ one summer, wearing a blue Faconnable shirt and Polo khakis, when I got a bit of grease on my sleeve from the grill. I complained out loud to myself when I was assaulted by one of the girls there, saying it was my fault for not wearing jeans and a t-shirt. I then put on a puffy red coat and a blue sock hat with a yellow thing on top and said, "Screw you guys, I'm going home!" and left. But really, I just seethed for a while until it was time to go.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Ronnie James Dio and the lads from Spinal Tap would be appalled.


Absolutely!

Here's a great quote by Ian Gillan in a Black Sabbath documentary "I think the best singer Black Sabbath ever had was Ronnie and the worst was probably me" :icon_smile_big::aportnoy:


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Someone has to say it: In a thread about sartorially provoked public-house unpleasantness, those have to be three of the world's_ least_ threatening-looking bar patrons (the "gang sign" that the one in the middle is trying to flash doesn't help, even if it _is_ "pretty fly for a white guy"). If they said anything about my pink cords, I'd give 'em the what-for, I'll tell you what--and that ain't no hooey.


:icon_smile_big: OK, but in my defense I was only trying to show the bar itself and validate my description of it as a "dive" where one would likely see ball caps. Perhaps I should have included a picture of one of my other old hangouts that I mentioned, the Bikini Beach.










These guys pictured are nice enough fellows as are The Weasels who hang out there regularly, but I wouldn't suggest that you try to give anyone the "what-for" when The Outlaws are in the house. Those guys can be nasty; however, none of them ever said anything to me about having a coat and tie on when I would drop in after work. Actually none of them ever said anything to me, period, about anything. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Pee-Wee's last request...


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## Bracemaker (May 11, 2005)

miurasv said:


> The other night I wore Crombie pink cords and Crombie Country Olive Coat with a white shirt, burgundy pocket square/handkerchief and Cheeney Crocodile (mock) boots and somebody I knew got so aggressive and nasty with me about the way I was dressed that the barman at the club I was in noticed and he got the bouncers to throw the guy out. Has anything similar happened to you?
> 
> Not since the unfortunate incident last weekend in Tescos when the waistband cord from my jim-jams got caught in a fleeing shoplifter's shopping trolley...my case comes up on Wednesday.
> 
> https://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/fashion/article7008980.ece


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

Benjamin E. said:


> I was at a BBQ one summer, wearing a blue Faconnable shirt and Polo khakis, when I got a bit of grease on my sleeve from the grill. I complained out loud to myself when I was assaulted by one of the girls there, saying it was my fault for not wearing jeans and a t-shirt.


Why? Are jeans and t-shirts grease-resistant?


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> :icon_smile_big: OK, but in my defense I was only trying to show the bar itself and validate my description of it as a "dive" where one would likely see ball caps. Perhaps I should have included a picture of one of my other old hangouts that I mentioned, the Bikini Beach.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I doubt I'm ever going to find myself "in the house" there, nor do I actually wear pink cords, so there's no need to worry about me. I just hope The Weasels are so named in honor of that wonderful Frank Zappa album, "Weasels Ripped My Flesh," and not because they are actual ferocious rodents.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Bracemaker said:


> Not since the unfortunate incident last weekend in Tescos when the waistband cord from my jim-jams got caught in a fleeing shoplifter's shopping trolley...my case comes up on Wednesday.
> 
> https://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/fashion/article7008980.ece


Oh I know, I've been following this on the BBC. What kind of social level does one have to sink to before one loses all pride and respect for oneself and thinks it's okay to go shopping in nightwear and slippers? The photos they've been showing are disgusting


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Bikers are usually alright. They like rebellion and they have some intelligence. Being precise about my home town I am from Bolton which is an arshole hole of a town. There was 7 knifings in the city centre one Saturday night last year. If you walk around in brown shoes there someone would shout abuse at you.

I think things happen but you make yourself a target by standing out. Standing out is a good thing however.


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## Benjamin E. (Mar 2, 2007)

JerseyJohn said:


> Why? Are jeans and t-shirts grease-resistant?


Not at all. Everyone else there was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, so it might have been an order to conform to everyone else, as this is not the first time I've gotten yelled at for dressing how I do. It's probably that most people don't care if their jeans get grease on them.

This also reminds me of the time I was wearing a new pair of dress shoes and someone stepped on them on purpose, scratching them. I gave the requisite "WTF, man?!" and he responded "Don't wear such fancy stuff and it won't get ruined".


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## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

I left work friday evening and decided to head out to meet a friend at a local club that was a bit upscale. I don't have a problem going anywhere when I'm dressed up as I'm usually pretty conservative. (no pink pants) Well, those plans fell through and another friend called me up saying that they were headed to a benefit for a friend and that I was welcome to go. I thought it'd be fun and so I went over. 

I walked in the door and the place about stopped. Apparently I missed the memo that dress code for the evening was bib overalls and Realtree camo trucker hats. Now, had this just been a dive bar, I don't think it would've been a problem, but this was a private party. I was getting the stink eye from every guy in there. (although the ladies seemed to like it, I think that only made the men more upset) I stuck around for a few beers and then made my exit. I can't be sure, but my guess is that as the evening progressed, someone would've gotten up the (liquid) courage to confront me.


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## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

Hanzo said:


> I left work friday evening and decided to head out to meet a friend at a local club that was a bit upscale. I don't have a problem going anywhere when I'm dressed up as I'm usually pretty conservative. (no pink pants) Well, those plans fell through and another friend called me up saying that they were headed to a benefit for a friend and that I was welcome to go. I thought it'd be fun and so I went over.
> 
> I walked in the door and the place about stopped. Apparently I missed the memo that dress code for the evening was bib overalls and Realtree camo trucker hats. Now, had this just been a dive bar, I don't think it would've been a problem, but this was a private party. I was getting the stink eye from every guy in there. (although the ladies seemed to like it, I think that only made the men more upset) I stuck around for a few beers and then made my exit. I can't be sure, but my guess is that as the evening progressed, someone would've gotten up the (liquid) courage to confront me.


What is a benefit exactly (I understand a big benefit dinner for charity)? And was the friend who took you also in overalls? What were you wearing?!


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

I get the impression that if booze were allowed in my workplace, several fellows would take a swipe at me.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Most of the stories of outright confrontation by strangers come from the UK. I wonder if this is one of the hidden advantages of living in a country (USA) with a much higher murder rate with firearms as prevalent as refrigerators? There's really no circumstance in which I would go up to a stranger in a bar and begin insulting him in earnest... not just because I was raised to have manners, but also because I could easily end up dead.


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## NukeMeSlowly (Jul 28, 2005)

Benjamin E. said:


> This also reminds me of the time I was wearing a new pair of dress shoes and someone stepped on them on purpose, scratching them. I gave the requisite "WTF, man?!" and he responded "Don't wear such fancy stuff and it won't get ruined".


If that had happened to me, that f***er would be missing a f***ing limb, or at least an eye.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> Most of the stories of outright confrontation by strangers come from the UK.


When I was in London there were regular verbal assaults while on the underground. The folks were edgier and more hostile than any New Yorker I've ever met!!


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Yeah, in my experience, most New Yorkers are not nasty until you engage them. (And, actually, the majority of them are fantastic folks.) The idea of just shooting your mouth off at random strangers is pretty foreign to my experience.


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## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

Sean1982 said:


> What is a benefit exactly (I understand a big benefit dinner for charity)? And was the friend who took you also in overalls? What were you wearing?!


Well, that was part of the problem, I didn't really understand what was going on. A friend of a friend had passed away and around here, its not uncommon to basically hold a big party to try to raise money for his family. Had I known it was THAT kind of a benefit, I'd have known better. (families in this area that hold these benefits are generally of a lower economic class) I was wearing a nice pair of slacks, my AE Strands, a Joseph Aboud shirt, my Paul Fredrick car coat with a nice scarf. It wasn't a suit, but...it wasn't exactly the standard attire for the evening.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Only use my gun when kindness fails.


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## 46L (Jan 8, 2009)

Benjamin E. said:


> This also reminds me of the time I was wearing a new pair of dress shoes and someone stepped on them on purpose, scratching them. I gave the requisite "WTF, man?!" and he responded "Don't wear such fancy stuff and it won't get ruined".


I would have inserted my newly scuffed shoe straight up his ass.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

CuffDaddy said:


> Most of the stories of outright confrontation by strangers come from the UK. I wonder if this is one of the hidden advantages of living in a country (USA) with a much higher murder rate with firearms as prevalent as refrigerators? There's really no circumstance in which I would go up to a stranger in a bar and begin insulting him in earnest... not just because I was raised to have manners, but also because I could easily end up dead.


The UK also has the phenomenon of violent soccer hooliganism, which has no real cognate in the USA. Even a dip into wikipedia doesn't come up with much:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_hooliganism#United_States

The closest we come (outside of northern New Jersey) is the occasional riot or mini-riot after a team wins a championship. IIRC it's happened a few times in Chicago and Detroit after NBA title series, and there was some illegal bonfiring and rock-throwing near the U of MD campus when the Terps won the NCAA hoops title in '02. But these were spontaneous outbreaks of disorder, not organized hooliganism, and didn't involve fighting supporters of a rival team, but rather fans of a winning team getting out of control while amongst themselves, so to speak.

I vividly recall being part of the giant crush at Wisconsin & M Streets in Georgetown when the 'Skins won their first Super Bowl, but that had a positive,friendly vibe; despite my indulgence in a few celebratory libations that Sunday evening, I'm pretty sure I'd remember if any cars had been burned or gigantic rumbles broken out.

It seems like the US has more gun crime, but less public fistfighting. Intuitively, they do seem like they might be related. Someone looking for trouble might be likelier to bloody a nose if he can be reasonably sure he's not going to get shot in return.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Also, google "happy slapping" to see a UK/western europe fad that _never_ would take off in America - too many of the slappers would have been shot dead.


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## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> Not since I was about 9 years old. How in the world did the trouble start?


I bet you were wearing a white collar dress shirt with button cuffs, weren't you? :icon_smile_wink:


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Scarred for life, I was. 

Actually, it was an OCBD. The other kids were wearing knit polo/golf shirts - the ones with the little alligators on them - and I wore a button-down shirt. Already the subject of much jealousy for my precocious brilliance and good looks [must... not... laugh...], this was all the provocation required.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

CuffDaddy said:


> Scarred for life, I was.
> 
> Actually, it was an OCBD. The other kids were wearing knit polo/golf shirts - the ones with the little alligators on them - and I wore a button-down shirt. Already the subject of much jealousy for my precocious brilliance and good looks [must... not... laugh...], this was all the provocation required.


Not to get into Interchange territory, but an acquaintance of mine who is from Sweden and who has spent time in the Netherlands (she is now an aspiring American citizen in the making) says that in the smaller, historically tight-knit and relatively mono-ethnic, and latterly socialist-leaning or social-democratic countries of Northern Europe, there is a strong tendency to want to hammer down any nail that sticks up too much (her metaphor). She further says that she doesn't sense much of that conformist/leveling impulse in the USA, at least not in everyday American life or as a general and ingrained habit of the American mind. I'm aware that the plural of anecdote is not data, but I can't help wondering if we aren't seeing an instance of that conformist impulse in this anecdote from Wales.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I think the aphorism that "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down" is actually originally a _Japanese _saying, but it's got truth around the world.

It's useful to remember, though, that our country was started and populated by all the wierdos who couldn't get along in the dominant culture of their "old country." So, yeah, there's a bit of eccentricity genetically hard-wired into most Americans.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

CuffDaddy said:


> I think the aphorism that "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down" is actually originally a _Japanese _saying, but it's got truth around the world.
> 
> It's useful to remember, though, that our country was started and populated by all the wierdos who couldn't get along in the dominant culture of their "old country." So, yeah, there's a bit of eccentricity genetically hard-wired into most Americans.


Arnold Schwarzenegger has said that he knew he had to get out of Austria when he heard some of his high-school classmates speculating about the size of their eventual state-guaranteed pensions (which were to kick in, IIRC, at age 55).

He just knew right then and there that he couldn't stay in a society where the thoughts of _teenagers_ were already being dominated by the prospect of retirement.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> ...you went into a pub in Cardiff, a notoriously violent working class city...especially in Cardiff


I wonder whether you have ever been to Cardiff. It's been primarily a city of white-collar workers for nearly 50 years - and many would say it's a fine city nowadays. "Notoriously violent" would seem to be a figment of your imagination!
However, I would not like to be in the centre of Cardiff or indeed any other large city on this island late on a Friday or Saturday night - but binge-drinking is by no means confined to south Wales.


Earl of Ormonde said:


> ...dressed like a country squire or a weekending stockbroker down from London, so I can't say I'm surprised you got grief for your choice of clothes, I'm not condoning it, I'm just not surprised...What does surprise me though is that it was somebody you knew.


 With this I agree.


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## Matthew Schitck (May 12, 2009)

*very, very drunk at the time*

I'm afraid in the UK we are mostly very drunk. So aggressive confrontational behaviour can often happen.
Personally I have had an excellent night in a biker bar despite the fact I was in black tie. Alternatively I got into a fight in a bar in Bolton whilst wearing a suit. I don't know how much of that was the fault of the suit or just my winning personality.


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

As a teenager, I was on occasion harshly scolded - and even ridiculed - by my father for some of my sartorial experiments; beyond that, I've never had a particularly vitriolic reaction to my attire, no.

And I deserved the paternal ridicule, in retrospect.

DH


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## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

A funeral benefit, wow!

We Londoners are a friendly lot ic12337:

I was very strongly abused by a gang of football 'fans' some time ago on the tube, they were on the opposite platform thank god, but they gave me and a woman sitting next to me some abuse. Me for not being in a football shirt, and her for being a woman. What can you do with these idiots? One had a bleeding head wound, seriously.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I did almost get a tie cut off once. I was wearing a University of Michigan necktie at a restaurant in (home of Michigan State University) Lansing (near the crowded bar) and kept playing a little device in the tie that played "Hail to the Victors" the University of Michigan Fight Song. It took awhile in the dark bar for the others to figure out where the Fight Song was coming from. I removed the necktie very quickly when I was discovered!


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

PJC in NoVa said:


> I just hope The Weasels are so named in honor of that wonderful Frank Zappa album, "Weasels Ripped My Flesh," and not because they are actual ferocious rodents.


Weasels are NOT rodents! They're carnivores. They eat rodents.

On the general topic, the only person who EVER gives me any grief about my apparel is my wife--the old philistine!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Hey Jan, if it ever gets to the point where she divorces you over it, you could always wear an ascot to the trial!


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

JLibourel said:


> Weasels are NOT rodents! They're carnivores. They eat rodents.
> 
> On the general topic, the only person who EVER gives me any grief about my apparel is my wife--the old philistine!


Oy--good catch!

I meant no disrespect to either weasels (members of the family _Mustelidae) _or rodents, and promise never to confuse them again.

This is ironic, since in college I once won a sixpack of beer betting against a hallmate who ignorantly but stubbornly swore that rabbits were rodents. (This was before wikipedia; we actually had to look it up in a dead-tree dictionary.)

PS: How could I forget that without the weasel family, we would not have the sport of ferret-legging!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferret_legging


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

I've been known to be openly dismissive of people I don't like, so in the rare occasion I have heard a negative comment about my wardrobe, well placed "f**k off," or "Have you looked in a mirror lately? I'm not overdressed" usually do the trick.

I've always thought a weasel or rhesus monkey would make a fine housewarming present for someone you like much.:icon_smile_big:


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PJC in NoVa said:


> I meant no disrespect to either weasels (members of the family _Mustelidae) _or rodents, and promise never to confuse them again.


Actually these are the Weasels to which I was referring.










I don't know which category they go in but I do know that they tend to be very friendly, unlike Angels, Outlaws, etc., and they don't care how you are dressed. They bill themselves as a drinking club with a motorcycle problem.:icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> Actually these are the Weasels to which I was referring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In their own way, they're very trad... you don't find much more traditional Americana than the biker 

DH


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## ourkid (Nov 17, 2009)

Matthew Schitck said:


> I'm afraid in the UK we are mostly very drunk. So aggressive confrontational behaviour can often happen.
> Personally I have had an excellent night in a biker bar despite the fact I was in black tie. Alternatively I got into a fight in a bar in Bolton whilst wearing a suit. I don't know how much of that was the fault of the suit or just my winning personality.


I'd imagine it wasn't the fault of either the suit or your personality but rather your choice of towns in which to drink :icon_smile_wink:.

A friend of mine from Bolton says that he used to look out of his bedroom window at the gang who hung out on the corner of his street. As soon as he saw them starting to harrass somebody else he'd take the opportunity to nip out, otherwise he knew he'd get a bit of aggro himself. It's just that kind of town I'm afraid.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Actually these are the Weasels to which I was referring.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is there a totemic significance to all the orange, or is it worn as a high-visibility, road-safety thing?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Reading the last dozen or so responses to this thread, I am reminded of an incident that took place in one of our local high schools, a few years ago. A 16 year old male student, slight of build and wearing heavy glasses and clothing that didn't fit the norm of most of the other students, brought a machete and a camp saw to school and, as a class period ended, he began slashing and cutting his fellow students. He was eventually taken down in a hallway by an assistant principle and subsequently turned over top the police. In the weeks and months that followed, it was learned that the assailant was an almost straight "A" student, who had been teased and shoved about for sometime by the (more) beautiful people in the student body. A**holes who couldn't keep their cruel words and brutish actions to themselves, pushed one, who was more vulnerable than they, until he snapped. How sad it is, that we seem to never learn!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Arnold Schwarzenegger has said that he knew he had to get out of Austria when he heard some of his high-school classmates speculating about the size of their eventual state-guaranteed pensions (which were to kick in, IIRC, at age 55).
> 
> He just knew right then and there that he couldn't stay in a society where the thoughts of _teenagers_ were already being dominated by the prospect of retirement.


I've also noticed that Americans tend to brag on how much they accomplish at work while Euro's tend to brag about how much work they don't do!!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Is there a totemic significance to all the orange, or is it worn as a high-visibility, road-safety thing?


Tennessee Vols colors??


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

williamson said:


> I wonder whether you have ever been to Cardiff. It's been primarily a city of white-collar workers for nearly 50 years - and many would say it's a fine city nowadays. "Notoriously violent" would seem to be a figment of your imagination!


You're joking of course! I've been to Cardiff several times. I don't know what Cardiff you've been visiting for the last 50 years, but when I was there often in the early 80s, only 20 odd years ago, it was still very much an industrial working class city. As for white-collar workers, yes of course, during the working weekday, but of a weekend evening all the valley boys come in, and that's when it kicks off. No need to be rude talking about figments of my imagination. When I was a police officer up to 1996 the crime figures spoke for themselves and Cardiff was "notoriously violent" For a while on a par with Manchester, but perhaps you don't know about the seedier side, the underworld, and the crime world of Cardiff.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Cuff Daddy said:


> Most of the stories of outright confrontation by strangers come from the UK.


On this forum, perhaps; but if you look at similar stories on the Fedora Lounge, you'll see that this is not the case there, though there is probably a higher proportion of British correspondents on this forum than on that one.


Earl of Ormonde said:


> I don't know what Cardiff you've been visiting for the last 50 years, but when I was there often in the early 80s, only 20 odd years ago, it was still very much an industrial working class city. As for white-collar workers, yes of course, during the working weekday, but of a weekend evening all the valley boys come in, and that's when it kicks off.


I have always lived within 50km of Cardiff; I lived and worked in the city itself for 4 years, and maintain that it is a city of white-collar workers as far as its actual residents are concerned. As you say, "it kicks off" when evening visitors arrive - but that, I suspect, is true of many large cities.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Tennessee Vols colors??


Hmmm, so that would make the Weasels a TN-specific motorcycle club, I guess.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Is there a totemic significance to all the orange, or is it worn as a high-visibility, road-safety thing?


My immediate thought was it was a Harley Davidson thing (orange on black are sort of official Harley colors), but that's just speculation.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Hmmm, so that would make the Weasels a TN-specific motorcycle club, I guess.


An allumni association on wheels!!


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Tennessee Vols colors??


Lane Kiffin, watch your back!


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> An allumni association on wheels!!


As long as they're not Clemson fans . . .

One of the precious few bright spots in my long autumn of football-fan agony (I'm still having nightmares about some of the Redskins games I forced myself to watch) was being in the house when the Terps beat Clemson at Byrd. The game was riddled with botches by both teams, but still it was sweet to silence the IPTAY faithful.

Speaking of orange-clad gridders, btw, I am currently going through _The Express, _Robert Gallagher's book on which the film about Ernie Davis was based. An excellent book for fans and nonfans alike.

Davis was one of those cases (they are probably rarer than we like to think) when exceptional athletic ability really was combined with exceptional character. And it keeps coming up in the book that he was known as an elegant dresser to boot.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Hmmm, so that would make the Weasels a TN-specific motorcycle club, I guess.


Hardly. Their National Headquarters is in Agoura Hills, California; although they do have at least one chapter in Tennessee.

Cruiser


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

CuffDaddy said:


> Most of the stories of outright confrontation by strangers come from the UK. I wonder if this is one of the hidden advantages of living in a country (USA) with a much higher murder rate with firearms as prevalent as refrigerators? There's really no circumstance in which I would go up to a stranger in a bar and begin insulting him in earnest... not just because I was raised to have manners, but also because I could easily end up dead.


In the UK you just get glassed, stabbed or kicked to death.


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## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

David Reeves said:


> In the UK you just get glassed, stabbed or kicked to death.


"Glassed"? Is that when someone introduces a broken bottle to you, forcibly? Seems like that would also fall under the heading of "stabbed"...


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## Naive. Jr. (Dec 4, 2008)

*Threefold Social Organism not realised in UK*

Obviously, the social system in Britain requires more justice. You might apply for asylum in Switzerland on the basis of colour prejudice, but The Mayor of London pointed out at the WEF in Davos last week that nightlife in Bern is far more strict than elsewhere. ToryBoy already mentioned the decadent effect of alcohol on modern consciousness, so perhaps you should first return to that pub after you've found more open-minded citizens interested in understanding how Britain could become more human and prepared yourself for a more difficult future?


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

flatline said:


> "Glassed"? Is that when someone introduces a broken bottle to you, forcibly? Seems like that would also fall under the heading of "stabbed"...


Pint glass unbroken until point of impact with face. The pint glass hits the face drinking side up. The way it breaks causes lots of scarring. There's an example of this in a scene in trainspotting.

I think guns being involved just logically creates more fatalities from confrontations. Of course America has a population much, much larger than the UK.

I am not talking like all this violence is a badge of honour but perceptions that we are all like Hugh Grant or Roger Moore are rather off the mark.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

David Reeves said:


> In the UK you just get glassed, stabbed or kicked to death.


Right, but only a minority of people (the very strong or the well-trained) are going to be able to deliver that kind of retribution. Easily avoided by only picking on the physically weak. Anybody can draw a gun, though, and shoot someone at a 4' distance. So you have to be a bit more cautious with everyone.


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## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

David Reeves said:


> Pint glass unbroken until point of impact with face. The pint glass hits the face drinking side up. The way it breaks causes lots of scarring. There's an example of this in a scene in trainspotting.


Jesus, according to wikipedia, in the UK there are more than 5,000 glassing attacks each year. That's more than 13 people a day; if you figure it happens mostly on Fri/Sat nights, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glassing#cite_note-0that's like 95 people per weekend. I've been in some sketchy areas of LA and NYC, but England gives me particular pause. Between the glassing and the happy slapping and the general arseheads, I'd be nervous to look at someone in a pub. I'd end up in Manchester wearing a Liverpool kit or something.

This all reminds me a bit of the story from back in November about the BBC reporter who was followed by a group of drunken yobs - in the _middle of the day_ - shouting at him and throwing beer on him, until he cold-cocked one of them.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-s...obs-after-attack-and-threats-115875-21795791/


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

The worst I've ever gotten is some random goth girl telling me, "You look like you just came from church." I decided to take it as a compliment.

Occasionally things also get yelled at me from the safety of an open window on a car going 50 mph. How courageous. I want to be just like them someday. 



Benjamin E. said:


> Not at all. Everyone else there was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, so it might have been an order to conform to everyone else, as this is not the first time I've gotten yelled at for dressing how I do. It's probably that most people don't care if their jeans get grease on them.
> 
> This also reminds me of the time I was wearing a new pair of dress shoes and someone stepped on them on purpose, scratching them. I gave the requisite "WTF, man?!" and he responded "Don't wear such fancy stuff and it won't get ruined".


That guy has a self-esteem problem if he has to mess up others' attire to make himself feel superior. I used to know people like him in high school and, thankfully, no longer do.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

Jovan said:


> The worst I've ever gotten is some random goth girl telling me, "You look like you just came from church." I decided to take it as a compliment.


You should have said "I did. Tell me - have you accepted Jesus as your personal savior?" You'll never see anyone beat a faster retreat! :icon_smile_big:


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

As someone from the second most violent city in America(Memphis) according to a recent poll, I have to say that I have never seen real violence in the UK. I know it happens, but England is hardly as dangerous as Bagdad.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

anglophile23 said:


> I have to say that I have never seen real violence in the UK. I know it happens, but England is hardly as dangerous as Bagdad.


Actually, that's a bid of a misconception. War and terorrism in war and terrorist zones is one thing, whereas social violence and what is socially acceptable is something else altogether. An odd fact well acknowledged by experts for years is that throughout the years of "The Troubles" Belfast was one of the friendliest cities in the UK. I've been out for evenings in Belfast and had a great time ( I have an aunt lives in Newtonabbey) and not heard an angry word from anyone compared to some of the nightmare areas/pubs I've been to in London.
I'd rather have a pint in Belfast any day of the week if the choice was between Belfast and say Bermondsey, Peckham or Stoke Newington or any other "stabbings-muggings-shootings R us" area of London .


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

anglophile23 said:


> As someone from the second most violent city in America(Memphis) according to a recent poll, I have to say that I have never seen real violence in the UK. I know it happens, but England is hardly as dangerous as Bagdad.


Erm....I should think it's not as dangerous as Baghdad. Thankfully we don't need soldiers on the streets yet.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

This all seems very post modern: being picked on for dressing nice. And Cruiser, please do not answer a question that wasn't asked (the question: have you been picked on for dressing nicely)!

And, at the risk of sounding pretentious, could a lot of these unnerving inncedents have been avoided simply if the man were wearing the clothes and not the other way around?


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Scoundrel said:


> And Cruiser, please do not answer a question that wasn't asked (the question: have you been picked on for dressing nicely)!


The question was, and I quote: "*Has anyone got nasty with you over the way you're dressed?*" You added the word "nicely" so my suggestion is that you pay more attention to the question being asked, or perhaps to the response being given. Besides, the word "nicely" made my answer even more to the point.

My answer was no, I have not been picked on for dressing nicely, even by bikers in a biker bar.

Cruiser


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

I hear occasional remarks now and again, such as "being dressed for a funeral." At the time, I was wearing a double-breasted POW check suit with a red BB #1 stripe tie and a blue pencil striped shirt. The accuser was wearing sunglasses while indoors, shorts, a pocket tee, and a beard inspired by a couch and television, so I just poked fun at him back. 

I once had a guy scowl at me presumably over my tweed jacket and tie. This guy had on full hiking regalia, complete with socks pulled up to the ankles, boots, shorts, fanny pack, and walking stick except for a few fatal flaws - none of it had so much as a granule of dirt on it, and he was dressed this way to the mall. An outdoor mall, granted, but I see few Tucson natives gear up like they're going to hike Mount Lemmon and head straight to the mall. I see a lot of snowbirds do this, however. 

TL;DR: If someone remarks on your attire, theirs is probably even more suspect.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL. Your post reminds me of times, while section hiking the Appalachian Trail, we have departed the Trail for a "real" shower and visit to convenience stores and a good meal at eateries, located not far off the route. After the shower, alas, our sartorial choices were the clothes taken off, just prior to showering, or perhaps, the ones we had worn a day or so before...neither option, likely under any circumstance to be pristine! However, as we sat and ate our meal, the other "Nuts in the Bowl" (so to speak), were as kind and friendly as one could ever hope. Not one saw fit to criticize our attire!

I guess the moral of this experience was/is, if you don't want to get picked on because of your attire, spend less time in Bars/Pubs and shopping malls and take up hiking. The people you meet are a lot nicer!


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## Bracemaker (May 11, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Actually, that's a bid of a misconception. War and terorrism in war and terrorist zones is one thing, whereas social violence and what is socially acceptable is something else altogether. An odd fact well acknowledged by experts for years is that throughout the years of "The Troubles" Belfast was one of the friendliest cities in the UK. I've been out for evenings in Belfast and had a great time ( I have an aunt lives in Newtonabbey) and not heard an angry word from anyone compared to some of the nightmare areas/pubs I've been to in London.
> I'd rather have a pint in Belfast any day of the week if the choice was between Belfast and say Bermondsey, Peckham or Stoke Newington or any other "stabbings-muggings-shootings R us" area of London .


I can vouch for this - as an alumnus of QUB, '70 to '74 at the height of The Troubles - in the early hours of many a Sunday morning I used to take my girlfriend home (until her resistance finally cracked)by taxi to Duncairn Gardens on the other side of town, and then, due to impoverishment, walk back to my digs near the Holy Land (the cognoscenti will know whereabouts this is), taking in the delights of the Falls Rd, no man's land and the Shankill on the way. Nobody ever said boo to me.
About the same time I went to stay with my brother in Manchester one weekend and got the living s**t kicked out of me by a load of Man Utd fans for not being appropriately attired - I had my Uni scarf on, not a Red one.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

My Pet said:


> I hear occasional remarks now and again, such as "being dressed for a funeral." At the time, I was wearing a double-breasted POW check suit with a red BB #1 stripe tie and a blue pencil striped shirt. The accuser was wearing sunglasses while indoors, shorts, a pocket tee, and a beard inspired by a couch and television, so I just poked fun at him back.
> 
> I once had a guy scowl at me presumably over my tweed jacket and tie. This guy had on full hiking regalia, complete with socks pulled up to the ankles, boots, shorts, fanny pack, and walking stick except for a few fatal flaws - none of it had so much as a granule of dirt on it, and he was dressed this way to the mall. An outdoor mall, granted, but I see few Tucson natives gear up like they're going to hike Mount Lemmon and head straight to the mall. I see a lot of snowbirds do this, however.
> 
> TL;DR: If someone remarks on your attire, theirs is probably even more suspect.


A fanny pack?

No one sporting an a$$ purse (at the mall, no less) should ever be critical of someone else's attire.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> I guess the moral of this experience was/is, if you don't want to get picked on because of your attire, spend less time in Bars/Pubs and shopping malls and take up hiking. The people you meet are a lot nicer!


We are a freindly, casual crew at the marina as well!!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Bracemaker said:


> I can vouch for this - as an alumnus of QUB, '70 to '74 at the height of The Troubles - in the early hours of many a Sunday morning I used to take my girlfriend home (until her resistance finally cracked)by taxi to Duncairn Gardens on the other side of town, and then, due to impoverishment, walk back to my digs near the Holy Land (the cognoscenti will know whereabouts this is), taking in the delights of the Falls Rd, no man's land and the Shankill on the way. Nobody ever said boo to me.
> About the same time I went to stay with my brother in Manchester one weekend and got the living s**t kicked out of me by a load of Man Utd fans for not being appropriately attired - I had my Uni scarf on, not a Red one.


Exactly! The Holy Land indeed, I haven't heard that phrase for a while. :icon_smile:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

WouldaShoulda said:


> We are a freindly, casual crew at the marina as well!!


LOL. +1 and very well put!


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## MikeWB (Jan 8, 2010)

Not really nasty, but the most memorable reaction to the way I was dressed occurred one fine summer day. I was walking down the street in a double breasted blue blazer and white trousers (don't remember whether I was wearing a tie that day) and someone in a passing car yelled "Hey, Ken! Where's Barbie?"

I usually get more compliments than criticism for the way I dress, but the most usual (and wearisome) reaction is "why do you always dress up so much?" I did have one woman I worked with tell me that I look like a stiff, but suffice it to say that I felt anything but stiff in her presence.


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## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I'd rather have a pint in Belfast any day of the week if the choice was between Belfast and say Bermondsey, Peckham or Stoke Newington or any other "stabbings-muggings-shootings R us" area of London .


What prejudice! Do you know any of those areas of London well? I have lived in Elephant and Castle and am regularly in the other areas mentioned. I get less abuse in these areas than in central London (i.e middle class yobs outside pubs, football fans on the tube etc). Peckham and Stoke Newington are increasingly trendy and have some posh shops and bars even, but the ordinary pubs are not that bad! My attire is not regarded with more then the occasional glance or positive comment (many young black men there are stylish even if not in my style, and older black men and many of the people attending the mega churches in Peckham are very well dressed).


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Had a few stares (quick, check my user name), but most at the resort take my vacation wear to mean I am either

A. Rich
B. Eccentric
C. Insane

Or some combination there of. I think I'm only one, I'll let you figure it out.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Sean1982 said:


> What prejudice! Do you know any of those areas of London well?


Yes I do!


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## richardUK (Nov 29, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Oh I know, I've been following this on the BBC. What kind of social level does one have to sink to before one loses all pride and respect for oneself and thinks it's okay to go shopping in nightwear and slippers? The photos they've been showing are disgusting


https://www.peopleofwalmart.com/


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

*"Last orders for pint glass as we know it?"*

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8495617.stm


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## Venturian (Nov 9, 2009)

*Old Soldiers...*

Much of what I know about attire, and etiquette, I learned in the military. I still do 100 push ups a day before I shine my shoes and put on a coat and tie. Haven't had any problems. Even in dive bars.


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## Beaky Thwaite (Feb 7, 2010)

When I was 19 years old, I had a beautiful Gant double breasted seersucker suit(got it from good ol' John Wanamaker's in Central Philly). One summer evening I was walking home from work wearing this suit when a bunch of guys and gals in a Charger drove by and yelled "nice suit!" in a derogatory fashion. At that age, I was hyper sensitive about my appearance and never wore the suit again(fortunately, it was late August, so the time to put in the closet for a year was soon coming).

I wish I had that suit now(and my 19 year old body to wear it)!


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## MikeWB (Jan 8, 2010)

Beaky Thwaite said:


> When I was 19 years old, I had a beautiful Gant double breasted seersucker suit(got it from good ol' John Wanamaker's in Central Philly). One summer evening I was walking home from work wearing this suit when a bunch of guys and gals in a Charger drove by and yelled "nice suit!" in a derogatory fashion. At that age, I was hyper sensitive about my appearance and never wore the suit again(fortunately, it was late August, so the time to put in the closet for a year was soon coming).
> 
> I wish I had that suit now(and my 19 year old body to wear it)!


The sad thing is that people like that are the insecure ones. They know nothing other than the grungy garb of their everyday, humdrum existence and just don't know how to deal with people who rise above the ordinary.


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## Beaky Thwaite (Feb 7, 2010)

MikeWB said:


> The sad thing is that people like that are the insecure ones. They know nothing other than the grungy garb of their everyday, humdrum existence and just don't know how to deal with people who rise above the ordinary.


Pretty much. But, at the time, I thought it was because seersucker wasn't as common as other styles, and maybe it made me look too old. Whenever I wore a navy or charcoal suit I only received compliments, so I was weary of seersucker and other "different" styles for a long time after that incident.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

MikeWB said:


> The sad thing is that people like that are the insecure ones. They know nothing other than the grungy garb of their everyday, humdrum existence and just don't know how to deal with people who rise above the ordinary.


I see this sentiment expressed quite often here and I can't help but wonder about it. Why must just about everyone who doesn't dress in a suit be described as "insecure?"

The incident described sounds like a bunch of young people doing what so many young people do. I knew quite a few like that when I was young. They loved to make fun of other people in any way that they could. They could laugh at people for being old, overweight, unattractive, or dressed differently. Were they being immature, insensitive, childish? Of course they were; but I'm not so sure that I would instantly call them insecure or say that they were living a humdrum existence.

A friend of mine when I was young was one of the worst at this type behavior, but he wasn't insecure. He was quarterback of the football team and is now a retired Marine Corps Sgt. Major. At reunions his stories of high school are some of the best, especially the one about the night he and some friends "borrowed" a hearse from the funeral home where one of them worked and went joy riding around town. Their downfall was when they cruised the local teen hangout in it. I could have seen my friend, the future Sgt. Major, hooting at some kid in a suit back then, but insecure he wasn't and certainly not humdrum. He just had some growing up to do. I suspect that the young folks in the Charger were the same.

Cruiser


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Beaky Thwaite said:


> When I was 19 years old, I had a beautiful Gant double breasted seersucker suit(got it from good ol' John Wanamaker's in Central Philly). One summer evening I was walking home from work wearing this suit when a bunch of guys and gals in a Charger drove by and yelled "nice suit!" in a derogatory fashion. At that age, I was hyper sensitive about my appearance and never wore the suit again(fortunately, it was late August, so the time to put in the closet for a year was soon coming).
> 
> I wish I had that suit now(and my 19 year old body to wear it)!


Wow! You wore this to work? What kind of business?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> I see this sentiment expressed quite often here and I can't help but wonder about it. Why must just about everyone who doesn't dress in a suit be described as "insecure?"
> 
> The incident described sounds like a bunch of young people doing what so many young people do. I knew quite a few like that when I was young. They loved to make fun of other people in any way that they could. They could laugh at people for being old, overweight, unattractive, or dressed differently. Were they being immature, insensitive, childish? Of course they were; but I'm not so sure that I would instantly call them insecure or say that they were living a humdrum existence.
> 
> ...


Insecure...perhaps, perhaps not. Arrogant and Ignorant bores...absolutely. "Just having some growing up to do"...your friend may have been the exception but, many never do grow up! Have you made many of your high school reunions? Are you too much of an optimist, perhaps?


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## AscotWithShortSleeves (Apr 12, 2009)

This doesn't qualify as "nasty"--but it's as close as I've come in recent memory.

A while back, my wife and I were visiting with our neighbors when they spontaneously invited us to join their family for dinner--_that_ night. We didn't feel like it, but I couldn't think of an excuse, so I (stupidly) accepted.

When we showed up, I was in a nice merino sweater, a collared shirt, and a pair of decent wool slacks. Nothing fancy. I was suprised to see that all the males in the family were what I would call slobbed out--sweatpants, track suits, t-shirts, etc. Even the brother-in-law (also a guest) was dressed like this! For a nice weekend dinner with guests!

The father ribbed me very good-naturedly--something like "Gee, you dressed up!--but I couldn't believe how piggy (piggily?) they were dressed. Thing is, I never seen the sons wear anything else!


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> I see this sentiment expressed quite often here and I can't help but wonder about it. Why must just about everyone who doesn't dress in a suit be described as "insecure?"
> 
> Cruiser


It's not people who don't dress in a suit that are insecure. It's people who don't dress in a suit _and then feel compelled to make snotty comments to people who do_ who have some sort of problem -- although whether it's insecurity or not I'll leave to the psychiatrists.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

JerseyJohn said:


> It's not people who don't dress in a suit that are insecure. It's people who don't dress in a suit _and then feel compelled to make snotty comments to people who do_ who have some sort of problem --


Of course there are many here who make snotty comments about people who aren't wearing suits or who otherwise dress in a manner of which they don't approve. Can we assume that they all suffer from the same "problem?" :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> Have you made many of your high school reunions? Are you too much of an optimist, perhaps?


Actually I've been to all but one; however, I manage to keep in touch with a large portion of them through a very active Facebook group; at least the ones that are still alive. Quite an alarming number have died. In fact, we just lost one last week and another the week before. We were already in double digits by the time the 10 year reunion came around and the number has steadily gone up over the years.

But back to the subject, I am always shocked at how so many of my classmates turned out. Some of the absolute worst in high school, the bullies and thugs, evolved into some of the most responsible, successful people you could imagine. Not all, but far more than I would have thought as a teenager.

For example, in addition to the guy already mentioned, the guy driving the aforementioned "borrowed" hearse now owns a successful business and one of the other culprits is a dentist. Most of us figured that whole bunch was eventually bound for the big house. Who knew? I don't believe that a person's teen and very young adult years are always an indicator of how they will eventually end up. And for that I say "Thank God". :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Beaky Thwaite (Feb 7, 2010)

Orsini said:


> Wow! You wore this to work? What kind of business?


At the time, I worked in retail sales at Bloomingdales.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Beaky Thwaite said:


> At the time, I worked in retail sales at Bloomingdales.


Wearing seersucker to a straight job... That's bitchin'!


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

When I was in elementary school and middle school the mean kids would always make fun of my clothes. They would always ask me why I wore polo shirts and chinos to school everyday. To them, a polo shirt was dressed up, as were chinos. Everyone else always wore a t-shirt and jeans. In the winter I wore sweaters whilst everyone else wore sweatshirts. I think the last time I wore a t-shirt that wasn't an undershirt was in the 4th grade. Adults always respected me more because I dressed better than the other kids. By high school nobody really cared anymore that I never wore t-shirts. At least in college, my peers see it as a positive thing.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Orsini said:


> Wearing seersucker to a straight job... That's bitchin'!


It's fairly unremarkable in the southeast. In most law firms with 100+ lawyers in Atlanta, it would be a rare day during the summer when there was not at least one attorney wearing seersucker.


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

Mostly I get, "you look very dapper today," which is interesting considering my office is still a "suit-only" firm in NYC. This usually happens on casual Fridays when I liven it up with a sports coat and odd trousers with a vest and color in the shirt and tie. I have never had a nasty word. Some confusion as others have noted, as in "why are you wearing a tie when you don't have to?" Then when I say, "because I like to." I get a "oh, right."

The closest it came was when I wore an ascot to the office, and I got a few comments about being, "slightly over the top" until I showed them the scar where I had just had throat surgery, and I got a nod and silence.

Everyone pretty much knows I am a militant dresser, and it's all totally political, in that I am not going go just go with the herd. Now others are wearing ties, even on Fridays; and I get plenty of questions from guys on what to wear, etc...


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Joe Frances said:


> Mostly I get, "you look very dapper today," which is interesting considering my office is still a "suit-only" firm in NYC. This usually happens on casual Fridays when I liven it up with a sports coat and odd trousers with a vest and color in the shirt and tie. I have never had a nasty word. Some confusion as others have noted, as in "why are you wearing a tie when you don't have to?" Then when I say, "because I like to." I get a "oh, right."
> 
> The closest it came was when I wore an ascot to the office, and I got a few comments about being, "slightly over the top" until I showed them the scar where I had just had throat surgery, and I got a nod and silence.
> 
> Everyone pretty much knows I am a militant dresser, and it's all totally political, in that I am not going go just go with the herd. Now others are wearing ties, even on Fridays; and I get plenty of questions from guys on what to wear, etc...


Speaking of ascots, I highly recommend the excellent WWII documentary "The Ritchie Boys" not only b/c of the topic covered, but b/c one of the extraordinary veterans interviewed, Prof. Victor Brombert of Princeton, totally rocks his ascot-with-deep-blue-shirt-and-charcoal-v-neck look. The small vidcap shown here gives some idea, but does not do him justice:

https://www.ritchieboys.com/EN/boys_brombert.html

I also was tickled when he said that western Maryland reminded his younger self of middle-European resort areas such as Marienbad.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Joe Frances said:


> Everyone pretty much knows I am a militant dresser, and it's all totally political, in that I am not going go just go with the herd. Now others are wearing ties, even on Fridays; and I get plenty of questions from guys on what to wear, etc...


Does this mean that when the time comes that you have everyone there wearing a tie, you will then go tieless? After all the herd will be in ties and if you don't want to go with the herd------ :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Beaky Thwaite (Feb 7, 2010)

Orsini said:


> Wearing seersucker to a straight job... That's bitchin'!


Bloomies wanted a jacket and tie, but we were free to wear whatever style we wanted. So in the summer I would often wear seersucker, or a navy db blazer with white linen pants and other stuff that wasn't really "business dress". Of course, compared to some of the other outfits that guys wore at the store at the time, I was probably the most conservative dresser of all of the male salespeople.

Unfortunately, my current job in an office is "business casual". I generally wear an oxford cloth button down and chinos, and I'm still over dressed compared to most of my coworkers.


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## SeptemberSun (Aug 19, 2009)

No one has been cross with me but I do recall a group of my family members (couple ex Marines) almost getting in a guys face for wearing blue jeans and sneakers to my Great Aunt's wake...you can certainly offend others by the way you dress...


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## Jae iLL (Nov 14, 2009)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Someone has to say it: In a thread about sartorially provoked public-house unpleasantness, those have to be three of the world's_ least_ threatening-looking bar patrons (the "gang sign" that the one in the middle is trying to flash doesn't help, even if it _is_ "pretty fly for a white guy"). If they said anything about my pink cords, I'd give 'em the what-for, I'll tell you what--and that ain't no hooey. What would they do in retaliation, try to bludgeon me with their "Flight of the Conchords" DVDs?:icon_smile_wink:
> 
> As for our OP, to put it in regional terms that I can understand, it sounds like he showed up at the old Hammerjacks under the freeway in Baltimore (anyone remember that place?) dressed as if headed for the fall running of the Gold Cup out at The Plains in Fauquier County. The reaction he got probably should not have been all that surprising. I don't condone bad manners, but bars are almost by definition places of lowered inhibitions, so any clothing that's attention-getting (whether for well or ill) in a sober setting should be expected to work its influence even more intensely among drunks.
> 
> Crayon-colored pants and busy plaid overcoats are probably best avoided altogether, at any rate.


I live in Baltimore. From the drinking I've done here, in California (where I'm from, Nor Cal) and in Korea I've never seen somebody try and get crazy with anybody else because they were dressed too nicely. People might follow a well dressed person out of the bar with the intention of robbing them, but usually robberies aren't too violent, as long as the victim isn't stupid.

I think the way a person carries themselves has a lot to do with how they're treated, much more than how they dress. Everytime I go out there are multiple fights, but it's always because somebody could have done or said something differently than they chose to.


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## eclipse75 (Dec 25, 2009)

alright, i've read through a good amount of these responses. it seems as though the "dress for the occasion" rule applies here. dressing in a blazer to a ******* bar will not get you any respect. they're the working class. them being in a drunken state, i can see where they are coming from. some fancy boy comes dressed up into his territory. imagine walking into a golf tournament with a graphic tee and jeans..


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

The only times anyone ever got nasty with me over the way I was dressed was when I was in police uniform and facing strikers of various types, protesters, and demonstrators or dregs like football hooligans, criminals being arrested and violent mindless rioters, all of whom had various opinions about my uniform and my conscience. Often suggesting I was one of Maggie's bootboys.
Actually, do you know what? Having to police justified strikes, marches and demos and being called one of Maggie's bootboys was the most hurtful. Far more so than being called a pig or bastard or other unsavoury things by unsavoury types like hooligans and criminals. But when it came from working men justifiably striking or marching for their rights, that hurt!


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

Cruiser said:


> Does this mean that when the time comes that you have everyone there wearing a tie, you will then go tieless? After all the herd will be in ties and if you don't want to go with the herd------ :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Cruiser


No, I would not go tieless; I would up the use of bow ties and ascots, and see whether I could push those envelopes.


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## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

Joe Frances said:


> No, I would not go tieless; I would up the use of bow ties and ascots, and see whether I could push those envelopes.


Quite right. I moved to my new flat on the 8th of October last, and I have not left the front door without a tie (or bowtie) on in that whole time, not once, and I don't intend to do so. I'll never drop the suit either (and yes, it's been a suit or evening dress that whole time too).


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## KidFury (Apr 12, 2008)

Today I got the "He has as many pairs of shoes as a woman" deal... Quite annoying and ignorant


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## RedBluff (Dec 22, 2009)

No, never really nasty.

My soon to be ex-wife (God it feels good to type that) usually asks, "why are you so dressed up?".
At work I get, "do you have an interview today?".
My penchant for darker colors in winter somethings gets me, "are you going to a funeral?". 

My replies are standard; because like to and I can, no, and no respectively.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

One memory comes to mind right now, my first week of college this year.I came in wearing a blazer with a shirt and tie my first day. I thought it was casual, but every student who saw me thought I had to be the Professor in the class.First day it was funny,but after that it got to be annoying. 


To this day, I still get fellow students(not the people in my class) who come up to me and ask if I'm a professor of this class or a Teacher's aide.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

ZachGranstrom;1091302thought I had to be the Professor in the class.[/quote said:


> Your Prof's wear ties!?!? I thought PJ's and flip-flops were now the undergrad uniform of the day, with clean PJ's worn for more formal classes.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> Your Prof's wear ties!?!? I thought PJ's and flip-flops were now the undergrad uniform of the day, with clean PJ's worn for more formal classes.


Sadly no, I have no prof. who wear ties, I think that is why classmates thought I was the teacher because that is what they saw on T.V.(prof. wearing Trad clothing).

Also, never!!! will I wear PJ's with flip-flops. I have a reputation to uphold.:icon_smile_big:


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

I'm often mistaken for someone higher up the foodchain than I am, because of the way I dress.


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## Ekphrastic (Oct 4, 2009)

Flanderian said:


> Your Prof's wear ties!?!? I thought PJ's and flip-flops were now the undergrad uniform of the day, with clean PJ's worn for more formal classes.


Oh, man, you're telling me. There's a professor in my college who quite often wears flip-flops and shorts to work. I mean, when you hold students' grades--and, by extension, their futures--in your hands, I think you should dress appropriately.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> My answer was no, I have not been picked on for dressing nicely


To balance it all out, you've been picked on endlessly here. :icon_smile_big:


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

KidFury said:


> Today I got the "He has as many pairs of shoes as a woman" deal... Quite annoying and ignorant


Next time just pitch right in, with something like "More, actually, if you only count quality stuff."


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2010)

RedBluff said:


> No, never really nasty.
> 
> My soon to be ex-wife (God it feels good to type that) usually asks, "why are you so dressed up?".
> At work I get, "do you have an interview today?".


I get the same sorts of comments (as jokes though) at work if I wear a tie. Actually its lunch time here, I might go and buy myself a new tie. Avoiding comments (if that's what you want to do) is about dressing for the occasion. You can still dress well without getting up other people's nose.

One of the few times I get comments outside work is when I wear out my , though the bouncers like it as its warmer than their coats.

My ex-wife is firmly ex. :icon_smile_big: Hope the divorce goes smoothly for you.

Matt


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## nehpets99 (Jan 22, 2010)

My coworkers asked that the other day when I decided to throw an orphaned suit coat on over my usual attire of sport shirt and jeans. I got a lot of "got a date tonight?" "setting up shop with some furniture and gonna listen to our problems?" (apparently I looked like a psychologist...).

Then again, they asked me similar questions when I switched from a work logo tshirt (not mandatory to wear) jeans and tennis shoes to sport shirts, jeans, and brown shoes.

I wouldn't call it "nasty" though, it's all in good fun. Now it's a matter of getting a blazer/sportcoat or 2 and some chinos and I'll start wearing those. Anything more than that would probably be a bit too formal for my work setting.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Ekphrastic said:


> Oh, man, you're telling me. There's a professor in my college who quite often wears flip-flops and shorts to work. *I mean, when you hold students' grades--and, by extension, their futures--in your hands, I think you should dress appropriately*.


Why? What does his attire have to do with the skill and ability he possesses to do his job professionally?


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Why? What does his attire have to do with the skill and ability he possesses to do his job professionally?


It is a form of noblesse oblige. Those with power always have a special obligation to behave politely toward those without it.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Kurt N said:


> It is a form of noblesse oblige. Those with power always have a special obligation to behave politely toward those without it.


What a load of tosh!


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Kurt N said:


> It is a form of noblesse oblige. Those with power always have a special obligation to behave politely toward those without it.


Are you serious??!?! I agree that those in power should dress better, but they are definitely not obligated to do so.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

*Not at all nasty*

The manager at the convenience store/gas station I drop by frequently asked why I was dressed up this morning (Friday). (He's a nice guy; some folks here may have been bummed; I knew he was just making conversation.)

I just told him that I was teaching a Junior Achievement Class this morning, so I dressed in a jacket and tie. (I figure that it's a bit of the role playing that you do when teaching the class; I'm sure I would not be expelled as a Junior Achievement volunteer if I wore a shirt and slacks, actually. No, I did not get into a Sociological discussion with the manager!!)


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> What a load of tosh!


What a charming turn of phrase! But not an argument.

Now if the _implied_ argument is that noblesse oblige is a nonsense concept, it's not worth attempting to reply. And if the implied argument is that dressing with some degree of care has nothing to do with being polite, then again it's not worth attempting to reply.

The only reasonable line of argument (that I can see) is that in a typical collegiate setting, shorts and flip-flops counts as an acceptable degree of care with one's attire--as long as the shorts are clean, I guess. I don't see it that way, but it's a possible view.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Kurt N said:


> What a charming turn of phrase! But not an argument.
> 
> Now if the _implied_ argument is that noblesse oblige is a nonsense concept, it's not worth attempting to reply. And if the implied argument is that dressing with some degree of care has nothing to do with being polite, then again it's not worth attempting to reply.
> 
> The only reasonable line of argument (that I can see) is that in a typical collegiate setting, shorts and flip-flops counts as an acceptable degree of care with one's attire--as long as the shorts are clean, I guess. I don't see it that way, but it's a possible view.


No matter how you dress it up, stating, as you did, that people in a position of power have an obligaiton to dress in a certain way is still a load of tosh...and if you don't know what tosh means, it means nonsense.


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> No matter how you dress it up, stating, as you did, that people in a position of power have an obligaiton to dress in a certain way is still a load of tosh...and if you don't know what tosh means, it means nonsense.


I know what "tosh" means. I was just remarking on the quaintness of it. I don't think of it as a word in current use, but maybe that's a regional thing.

Another line of argument in favor of professors' wearing shorts occurs to me. One might say that the politics of the classroom, what with things like course evaluations and expansion of the range of student choices, have leveled the playing field, so that the professor is no longer in a position of power.

(I would love to have _you_ advance an argument. It's annoying to have to do the work of two people.)

EDIT: ZachGranstrom, I don't see the difference between "should" and "have an obligation to." If you prefer "should," that's fine.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2010)

Kurt N said:


> I know what "tosh" means. I was just remarking on the quaintness of it. I don't think of it as a word in current use, but maybe that's a regional thing.


Given the clothing style of a lot of people in this forum I'm not sure current use or quaintness is a thing to complain about!

Anyway, I use the word tosh, it's a perfectly good word.

Matt


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Kurt N said:


> EDIT: ZachGranstrom, I don't see the difference between "should" and "have an obligation to." If you prefer "should," that's fine.


Yeah,you're right. Probably a bad word to choose,ic12337: but what I meant was that even though it would be ideal for people in power to dress well, the point where it is obligated to dress well is just wrong.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

ZachGranstrom said:


> Are you serious??!?! I agree that those in power should dress better, but they are definitely not obligated to do so.


If they don't they will be mocked by the very people who don't regularly wear such clothes.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Bog said:


> If they don't they will be mocked by the very people who don't regularly wear such clothes.


*You have a point*, but at the same time I've seen many public officials wear casual clothing in public events. And usaully the mocking is not by what they're wearing, but by what issues that are at hand.:icon_smile:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Kurt N said:


> I know what "tosh" means. I was just remarking on the quaintness of it. I don't think of it as a word in current use, but maybe that's a regional thing.
> 
> Another line of argument in favor of professors' wearing shorts occurs to me. One might say that the politics of the classroom, what with things like course evaluations and expansion of the range of student choices, have leveled the playing field, so that the professor is no longer in a position of power.
> 
> ...


Don't flatter yourself because you have no argument. You just throw out an opinion as if it's an acknowledged truth that people in power have an obligation to dress in a certain way. What do you support that with?
When in fact, if anything, the opposite is true, because No. 1, people in power often dress as they like. No. 2, the evidence before me on a daily baiss is that No.1 is correct. No.3 nothing ANYWHERE is of lesser importance in the workplace than how a perosn boss or not dresses.
Skill, professionalism, and competence are what are important.
If you work at a job where peole are judged on their clothing rather than what they are capable of then I feel sorry for you.

As for tosh it is a very common word in usage in the UK.
As for noblese oblige, that isn't. And by the way it's 2010! So notions like nobless oblige are archaic and not welcome.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> If you work at a job where peole are judged on their clothing rather than what they are capable of then I feel sorry for you.


Then you must feel sorry for 99.9% of working people. How noble of you.


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

ZachGranstrom said:


> Yeah,you're right. Probably a bad word to choose,ic12337: but what I meant was that even though it would be ideal for people in power to dress well, the point where it is obligated to dress well is just wrong.


Ah...I guess your thought is that ideals are fine, but if we start imposing firm obligations on other people, the whole thing gets too oppressive or burdensome. I'd be ready to go along with that, to at least some degree. I don't want to make a schoolteacher feel bad about showing up at school looking a little unkempt after having a harried morning getting the kids ready and then dashing to work. I think it depends on how much power and privilege you enjoy, and maybe other factors.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> DonAs for noblese oblige, that isn't. And by the way it's 2010! So notions like nobless oblige are archaic and not welcome.


Maybe not welcome in Sweden, or wherever you're at. But despite your trendy European denial of it, the phenomenon is still at work, whether you like it, or not.


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Don't flatter yourself because you have no argument. You just throw out an opinion as if it's an acknowledged truth that people in power have an obligation to dress in a certain way. What do you support that with?


Dressing neatly, modestly, and not too casually, is a way of showing respect toward those around you, yes? And those in power have a special obligation to show respect toward those over whom they have power, yes?



> When in fact, if anything, the opposite is true, because No. 1, people in power often dress as they like. No. 2, the evidence before me on a daily baiss is that No.1 is correct?


You're saying that a norm is invalid because it's generally ignored?



> No.3 nothing ANYWHERE is of lesser importance in the workplace than how a perosn boss or not dresses. Skill, professionalism, and competence are what are important.


First hard-headed realism, and now starry-eyed, oversimplifying idealism. EDIT: Wait a minute--you're having me on, aren't you (as they say in the UK)? From other threads I know that you've had several jobs where you wore a _uniform_ to work. And now you're claiming never to have encountered an environment where appearance matters?



> As for tosh it is a very common word in usage in the UK. As for noblese oblige, that isn't. And by the way it's 2010! So notions like nobless oblige are archaic and not welcome.


I concede the point on "tosh." You may wiki the phrase "noblesse oblige" to see contemporary uses. But if what bothers you is the _phrase_, then set that aside. I was trying to talk about the obligations of those in power, not to allege that people in power are of nobler spirit.


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## wheredidyougetthathat (Mar 26, 2006)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Don't flatter yourself because you have no argument. You just throw out an opinion as if it's an acknowledged truth that people in power have an obligation to dress in a certain way. What do you support that with?
> When in fact, if anything, the opposite is true, because No. 1, people in power often dress as they like. No. 2, the evidence before me on a daily baiss is that No.1 is correct. No.3 nothing ANYWHERE is of lesser importance in the workplace than how a perosn boss or not dresses.
> Skill, professionalism, and competence are what are important.
> If you work at a job where peole are judged on their clothing rather than what they are capable of then I feel sorry for you.
> ...


cobblers


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Both sides have made their point. Can we stop this now?


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## Ekphrastic (Oct 4, 2009)

My, it appears that my comments started something...

To answer your question, E.o.D., I simply meant that dressing well is a sign of respect and professionalism--basically the same idea that appears frequently on the forum. I know that there are some professors who take their academic duties very seriously, yet dress unprofessionally. The converse is true, as well. However, from my--admittedly limited--experience, students appreciate it when their professor dresses professionally. (And, by "dressing well" and "professionally," I'm using those descriptors in the sense most people on this forum would. I realize that we could argue that, in an academic setting, the rules of professional dress change, but I'll stick with the traditional definition.) I try to dress professionally when I teach--I often fall short, but I try--and I've had some students actually thank me for it. (Surprised me, it did.) I think it makes them feel like I take my job seriously; as I alluded to earlier, when grades are on the line, I think that's a proper attitude to (try to) project.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

:deadhorse-a:


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## Ekphrastic (Oct 4, 2009)

You're right, of course, Scoundrel. :icon_smile_wink:

Back on topic: Usually, if someone notices my clothes, I don't think there's any malice intended. And, even if there is, I think a line like, "Thank you for noticing!" and acting like the person _did _intend a compliment works well.


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## Mordred (Apr 20, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Oh I know, I've been following this on the BBC. What kind of social level does one have to sink to before one loses all pride and respect for oneself and thinks it's okay to go shopping in nightwear and slippers? The photos they've been showing are disgusting


It's totally fine, if it's done properly . In my first year at University I, would always meander out for provisions sometimes alone sometimes with company, in - essentially glorified-flannel checked pajama bottoms, slippers and a cardigan or dressing gown - of a hungover Sunday morning - for japes of course - granted, the slippers in question are from new & lingwood ditto the dressing gown, but that is hardly the point.
So naturally I was absolutely outraged to hear that the likes of Tesco are venturing to dictate how we choose to attire ourselves when engaged in something as trivial as the buying of groceries, a chap can shop in his Jammies if he damn well wants to.

Bloody Police state!!!!!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I would accept that you probably have the right to shop in your pajamas.

I doubt that the folks who post here will endorse your idea as a good thing, though.


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