# Florsheim for BB?



## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Have you guys seen these:










Florsheim for BB for $395. Why can't they just give us an Alden LWB for BB in calf for this price?


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

maximar said:


> Florsheim for BB for $395. Why can't they just give us an Alden LWB for BB in calf for this price?


Because made in India Florsheims probably cost BB a lot less (wholesale) than made in the US Aldens. I've very disappointed in this development.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

maximar said:


> ]
> Florsheim for BB for $395. Why can't they just give us an Alden LWB for BB in calf for this price?


I don't know for sure, but I suspect that one of the reasons is that Alden is running way behind on its order log - multiple months behind. That's not good for Brooks Brothers.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

Those look like the Made in USA Florsheim by Duckie Brown shoes.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Brooks Brothers said:


> Genuine pebble leather. Leather lining, storm welted. Tone-on-tone stitching. *Imported*.


Looks like not, per the website.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

joenobody0 said:


> Because made in India Florsheims probably cost BB a lot less (wholesale) than made in the US Aldens. I've very disappointed in this development.


Why are you disappointed in this development? Is it because they are Florsheims, and not a high end US or UK brand? Or is it because they are made in India? Or is it because they are charging the outrageous price of $395 for Florsheims made in India?

As for me, I cannot say right now if I am disappointed in this development because I do not understand it. I am trying to figure it out. Could this shoe be the new limited edition Veblens in a different color? The Veblen is a $160 shoe available only on their website in four colors. Or could these be their flagship model Florsheim Imperial Kenmoors introduced in 1949, priced everyday at $225, but on sale several times a year for $160, in a different color? If it is either of these two shoes, why the big markup? Or could this be a new model such as a limited edition Royal Imperial, made with better materials and maybe even made in the US or UK, priced much higher?

If it is what I think it is, I am VERY disappointed. IMHO the natural colored edging on the heel and sole gives this away as a Veblen. Please tell me that I am wrong.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

Racer said:


> I don't know for sure, but I suspect that one of the reasons is that Alden is running way behind on its order log - multiple months behind. That's not good for Brooks Brothers.


Alden is running WAY behind on their orders. They are a very busy company. They could expand big time and make a lot more shoes (and money), but I guess they dson't want to.


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## GentlemanGeorge (Dec 30, 2009)

Well, they do say Florsheim by Duckie Brown but, also, imported.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

blue suede shoes said:


> Why are you disappointed in this development? Is it because they are Florsheims, and not a high end US or UK brand? Or is it because they are made in India? Or is it because they are charging the outrageous price of $395 for Florsheims made in India?


I'm disappointed because I see this as BB making another step from what they once were. It used to be if you went to BB and bought an expensive pair of shoes, an expensive briefcase, or an expensive umbrella you could be satisfied in the knowledge that you were getting something worth the money. In the first case you'd receive a pair of Edward Green or Alden shoes, in the second you'd receive an SAB bag, and in the third you'd receive a Fox (I think) umbrella. These days you might get a pair of Florsheims or a bag/umbrella made my some no name Italian factory. Brooks Brothers is becoming less and less of a purveyor of fine items for discerning gentleman.

Couple the above with the fact that I own many many pair of Aldens and wouldn't consider modern Florsheims for a second, and I'm sure you can understand my disappointment.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

On the other hand, this is very good for Florsheim.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

I would not worry or fret too much. This is not anything too new for BB.

BB has sold Sebago loafers for twice their normal retail price for years (or at least they did until recently). The Florsheims are not as bad as some of the Italian model shoes they have been featuring either.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Tom Buchanan said:


> The Florsheims are not as bad as some of the Italian model shoes they have been featuring either.


That may be true, however the Florsheims encroach on Alden territory in a way the Italian shoes never did. Hopefully these Florsheims don't sell well, because if they do I fear that Alden will be replaced by a more profitable supplier.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Shameful. Rapidly squandering brand equity. Fast on the track to becoming just another empty name.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

What I find disturbing is that they are priced as the Alden for BB. Florsheim and BB should take it easy. This is way too aggressive. 

I would rather wait months for an Alden than an immediate pair of Florsheims for the same price. If the Florsheims are $100, then we have a winner (for the moment) and this conversation is temporarily on hold. 

I know they sell Sebagos for a higher price. But think about this, what if they started selling the Sebagos for the price of the Alden for BB pennies?


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

maximar said:


> What I find disturbing is that they are priced as the Alden for BB. Florsheim and BB should take it easy. This is way too aggressive.


Well said.


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

These same shoes go for $395 on Zappos, so there goes the theory that BB jacked up the price.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^


Flanderian said:


> Shameful. Rapidly squandering brand equity. Fast on the track to becoming just another empty name.


Regardless of whether BB "jacked up the price" on these shoes or not, it is actions such as described in this thread and supported by similar observations during my last two visits to local BB retail locations in the Chicago-land area, that leads me to be inclined to agree with Flanderian's assessment of BB's future. Sad, very sad!


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

So, if Alden is not keeping up with their orders with BB, then which shoe line should BB carry to fill the gap? I'm not much of a fan of Florsheim (shadow of their former selves) and to be honest the colours shown aren't my cup of tea either, in defense of BB they are entitled to source to fill a hole in their product assortment and perhaps experiment a bit within a limited scope. 

If you were the merchandise planner, honestly what would you carry to fill that price point in the high $300 range for calf leather shoes?


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Allen Edmonds.


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

BB is still carrying plenty of Alden models; it's just that they've added these three Florsheim models (longwing calf, longwing shell, and saddle) for whatever reason. Maybe J. Crew bought up Alden's entire production of longwings, they have them in stock on their website in a number of sizes.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

On the other hand, this is a good move for Florsheim as the new management tries to rebuild the brand's reputation as a classic American shoemaker. Didn't the original family just recently take over again?


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

Bradford said:


> On the other hand, this is a good move for Florsheim as the new management tries to rebuild the brand's reputation as a classic American shoemaker. Didn't the original family just recently take over again?


They have a ways to go.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

JakeLA said:


> They have a ways to go.


 Looks like a good shoe for an old man...


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

JakeLA said:


> They have a ways to go.


There are more than a few people out there who are unable to tie laces or wear traditional loafers due to advancing age or disabilities that affect either the hands or feet. I see nothing at all wrong with the way this casual shoe looks for people who find themselves in this situation.

Cruiser


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Florsheim has always had a few awful designs in their line, even back in the good old USA made glory days. Doesn't detract from the fact that when most people think of LWB, Florsheim is still the first name that comes to mind.

I'll reserve judgment on these until I see them in person. Too often, people get caught up on the brand name and disregard everything else.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

Man you guys complain a lot.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> There are more than a few people out there who are unable to tie laces or wear traditional loafers due to advancing age or disabilities that affect either the hands or feet. I see nothing at all wrong with the way this casual shoe looks for people who find themselves in this situation.
> 
> Cruiser


ditto.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

joenobody0 said:


> Allen Edmonds.


That would be my first choice too. Who knows maybe they could not spare capacity.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Bradford said:


> Man you guys complain a lot.


Brooks Brothers can do no right with this crowd.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Orgetorix said:


> Brooks Brothers can do no right with this crowd.


That is untrue. Their GF suits are very nice, as are the Alden produced shoes. If those whiskey shells were made by Alden I'd be all over them in 1 second.

The shoes mentioned in the OP are horribly ugly in my opinion. Even if they *were *made by Alden I wouldn't give them a second look.


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## fiddler (Apr 19, 2010)

I will reserve final judgement until I've seen more real life pictures. Judging by the product photos, the finishing looks a lot better than the Aldens. Just look at that lovely double row stitching! Also the area where the welt joins looks a lot cleaner on these, compared to my Aldens. If they had dropped the white welt, I actually don't think these would've looked half bad. Florsheim must have hired very skilled workers.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

maximar said:


> Have you guys seen these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Considering that these are the prettied up versions on a retail web site the execution of these shoes are awful!!

I want to like them but can't.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

The biggest sin is the way they look. They remind me of the white vinyl shoes of the '70s designed to be worn with polyester, double-knit leisure wear. Didn't Clark Griswold receive something very similar from his brother-in-law in "Vacation"? Amazing that such relatively expensive shoes could give such an appling appearance of cheap, vinyl shoes. To be avoided.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Apart from the fact that they're longwing bluchers instead of shortwing bals, they look the same as the white pebble Peals made by C&J. Neither is all that bad looking, IMO.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Orgetorix said:


> Apart from the fact that they're longwing bluchers instead of shortwing bals, they look the same as the white pebble Peals made by C&J. Neither is all that bad looking, IMO.


Did the Peals have a white storm welt? That really looks bad IMHO.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

fiddler said:


> I will reserve final judgement until I've seen more real life pictures. Judging by the product photos, the finishing looks a lot better than the Aldens. Just look at that lovely double row stitching! Also the area where the welt joins looks a lot cleaner on these, compared to my Aldens. If they had dropped the white welt, I actually don't think these would've looked half bad. Florsheim must have hired very skilled workers.


Yes, and they must have paid those skilled workers at least 25 cents an hour. :icon_smile:


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

I think they look terrific. If Florsheim made Veblens in a white/bone/cream/whatever, I wouldn't wear anything else in the summer.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

frosejr said:


> I think they look terrific. If Florsheim made Veblens in a white/bone/cream/whatever, I wouldn't wear anything else in the summer.


No doubt. I think the Veblens are one of the best releases that ever happened to Florsheims these past years. It is unfortunate that they came out a week after purchasing a pair of Sanders & Sanders LWB for $250+. I could have purchased two Veblens. They are right on the money. I would take the Veblens anyday. The BBs, no way.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

frosejr said:


> I think they look terrific. If Florsheim made Veblens in a white/bone/cream/whatever, I wouldn't wear anything else in the summer.


...and they'd retail for 168.00 not 398.00!!


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> ...and they'd retail for 168.00 not 398.00!!


:aportnoy: EXACTLY!


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

Bradford said:


> Man you guys complain a lot.


Gentlemen on this forum have high standards.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Yesterday I visited the BB store in Toronto and they had on display (amongst all their shoes) two pairs of longwings in shell cordovan: one black shell, the other black shell pebblegrain (both had the Horween stamp on the soles). The insole said Made in the USA. They didn't look like these new Florsheim models, and they aren't the Black Fleece models either. I thought they might have be some oddball Aldens, possibly on the Plaza last (definitely not the Barrie last). They aren't on the BB website. Has anyone seen anything like them?


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

Not to threadjack Dr. Damage above, but I think there are whiskey Alden LWB on the BB website.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Green3 said:


> Not to threadjack Dr. Damage above, but I think there are whiskey Alden LWB on the BB website.


I don't think they are Alden. It say's "imported" instead of Made in USA.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

maximar said:


> I don't think they are Alden. It say's "imported" instead of Made in USA.


Florsheim, made in India.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

maximar said:


> Have you guys seen these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With apologies to all who like white wing tips...the last (and only) shoes that look like these I would wear would have to be equipped with sof spikes on the bottom...since many golf courses won't allow steel spikes any longer nor do I still play. So price is the least of my _personal_ objections to these gunboats. Sorry, but I have visions of Ted Knight wearing them with bright red pants in Caddy Shack. Now having offending a goodly portion of the forum, allow me to say that I truly would like to see Florsheim make a comback in the world of quality footwear. Bear with me while I tell you why.

My dad lost his sight at the age of 25 during the Great Depression. Prior to that he had worked (among other a number of other places) in a menswear store and appreciated good clothing and footwear. He was a striking figure and stood 6'4" and wore size 12 shoes.

After loosing his sight he ended up opening a combination country store/beer joint/ filling station. He wore work khakis every day. However.........with a John Wayne frame and standing on his feet all day he required quality shoes. He insisted on Florsheim and advised me to always do the same (unfortunately, they later went downhill and were he alive today he would probably insist on AEs or Aldens). He wore split toe bluchers and, not being able to see, would depend on me to tell him when they need polishing. He was particular about keeping his shoes shined and gave me explicit instructions on how to achieve the best results. Many is the time, as a young skinny kid, that I wrestled with those size 12s until they were gleaming. The leather was soft, supple and took (and kept) a great shine. I learned to enjoy it and took a lot of pride in making them look their best.

He always told me to never skimp on shoe leather...get the good stuff. Your feet are your foundation and you want support and good quality leather. He also believed that you could tell alot about a man's pride by how well he cared for his shoe leather. Florshiem was the best to be found in our small town and a pair would last him forever.

Sorry for hijacking the thread with my semi-blog sentimental trip down memory lane. My Dad didn't indulge himself in much of anything...he took care of his wife and 3 boys without a dime of support from the government or charity despite his handicap. But he loved his Florsheims. They were the best he could find...or afford. I learned a lot of things from the pride and care he took in his shoes and helping him in that way made me proud.

If it is true that the original family has reclaimed the company...I wish them the best.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Now these are wingtips BB wingtips. Anyone knows who makes them?


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## suginami (Jan 21, 2011)

Saltydog said:


> With apologies to all who like white wing tips...the last (and only) shoes that look like these I would wear would have to be equipped with sof spikes on the bottom...since many golf courses won't allow steel spikes any longer nor do I still play. So price is the least of my _personal_ objections to these gunboats. Sorry, but I have visions of Ted Knight wearing them with bright red pants in Caddy Shack. Now having offending a goodly portion of the forum, allow me to say that I truly would like to see Florsheim make a comback in the world of quality footwear. Bear with me while I tell you why.
> 
> My dad lost his sight at the age of 25 during the Great Depression. Prior to that he had worked (among other a number of other places) in a menswear store and appreciated good clothing and footwear. He was a striking figure and stood 6'4" and wore size 12 shoes.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing your childhood memories of your father. Brought a tear to my eye reading it.

My dad worked for Unocal (Union 76) his whole career until retirement.

He was hired right our of high school, and worked in the oil fields in Southern California, and on the drilling platforms in the Pacific Ocean just off of Huntington Beach.

When he got in his late thirties, he was moved into a semi-professional job, and got to wear slacks and a button-up shirt to work.

He was 6'5" tall, and wore a size 13 shoe, and Florsheim was one of the companies that carried his size.

He wore Florsheim longwing wingtips to work most of the time, and on the days he didn't, he wore Red Wing black leather bluchers, with a crepe rubber wedge sole. He wore these shoes with a shine that would make the military proud.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

^^^
Thanks, friend. Those guys took pride in their own work...and the work of others. And--they stood on their own two proudly shod feet! They contributed so much to the American Spirit.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

I have a phenomenal customer that won't wear anything but Florsheim gunboats. He's worn them ever since he was a young salesman for IBM in the 60's. I asked him why he loves them so much, his response, "Because these are the shoes you wear when it's time to kick some a**, and I've awoke every morning of my life ready to go kick some".


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Although I would not recommend this for business (unless glamour, etc&#8230, the styling looks good to me. Are they suede? It seems to me that the color would make it difficult to keep "shoes darker than trousers," though. 

Orsini finds this a good-looking shoe of a limited range useful for certain social venues when the slacks are chosen carefully. If I am not fired this year, I might get something like this. 

Orsini doubts shoes made in India will ever have much cachet&#8230;


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Mr. Mac said:


> I have a phenomenal customer that won't wear anything but Florsheim gunboats. He's worn them ever since he was a young salesman for IBM in the 60's. I asked him why he loves them so much, his response, "Because these are the shoes you wear when it's time to kick some a**, and I've awoke every morning of my life ready to go kick some".


Yes, wintips "..are perfect for grinding underlings into the dust and kicking sorry vendors over the horizon!" Very good when combined with your "man with no eyes" mirror shades.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Doctor Damage said:


> Yesterday I visited the BB store in Toronto and they had on display (amongst all their shoes) two pairs of longwings in shell cordovan: one black shell, the other black shell pebblegrain (both had the Horween stamp on the soles). The insole said Made in the USA. They didn't look like these new Florsheim models, and they aren't the Black Fleece models either. I thought they might have be some oddball Aldens, possibly on the Plaza last (definitely not the Barrie last). They aren't on the BB website. Has anyone seen anything like them?


I have seen those shoes too and curious, not that I need another pair of black longwings (got a nice pair of Cheney's for the defunct Dack's shoe chain).


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Uncle Bill said:


> by Doctor Damage said:
> 
> 
> > Yesterday I visited the BB store in Toronto and they had on display (amongst all their shoes) two pairs of longwings in shell cordovan: one black shell, the other black shell pebblegrain (both had the Horween stamp on the soles). The insole said Made in the USA. They didn't look like these new Florsheim models, and they aren't the Black Fleece models either. I thought they might have be some oddball Aldens, possibly on the Plaza last (definitely not the Barrie last). They aren't on the BB website. Has anyone seen anything like them?
> ...


One of our fellow Canadian members has seen the pebblegrain ones and told me they were Aldens, so I think I will take a closer look next time I'm in Toronto, which should be soon. I will try to record a product code or something, if I don't buy them.


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## suginami (Jan 21, 2011)

suginami said:


> .....He wore Florsheim longwing wingtips to work most of the time, and on the days he didn't, he wore Red Wing black leather bluchers, with a crepe rubber wedge sole. He wore these shoes with a shine that would make the military proud.


I was looking at shoes on the Red Wings website today, and noticed that they brought back the black plain toe blucher that my dad used to wear. They discontinued it about 15 years ago, but brought it back as part of their heritage collection. Man, I'll tell 'ya, looking at these shoes brings back memories.

Here is a quote from the Red Wings site on the shoe:

"In the early 1960's, policemen still walked their beats and the postman walked his mail route. Of course they needed comfortable and sturdy footwear for the eight hours spent on their feet. Red Wing responded with the #101, a sturdy black oxford with a moldable insole. It could be polished to meet their uniform requirements, but was tough enough for everything their day encountered."


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

The above user's story is what this forum is all about.
well done, and thank you.


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## Thewaxmania (Feb 20, 2008)

Saltydog said:


> With apologies to all who like white wing tips...the last (and only) shoes that look like these I would wear would have to be equipped with sof spikes on the bottom...since many golf courses won't allow steel spikes any longer nor do I still play. So price is the least of my _personal_ objections to these gunboats. Sorry, but I have visions of Ted Knight wearing them with bright red pants in Caddy Shack. Now having offending a goodly portion of the forum, allow me to say that I truly would like to see Florsheim make a comback in the world of quality footwear. Bear with me while I tell you why.
> 
> My dad lost his sight at the age of 25 during the Great Depression. Prior to that he had worked (among other a number of other places) in a menswear store and appreciated good clothing and footwear. He was a striking figure and stood 6'4" and wore size 12 shoes.
> 
> ...


Well said. Quite a moving story.


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## spielerman (Jul 21, 2007)

Bandit44 said:


> Florsheim has always had a few awful designs in their line, even back in the good old USA made glory days. Doesn't detract from the fact that when most people think of LWB, Florsheim is still the first name that comes to mind.
> 
> I'll reserve judgment on these until I see them in person. Too often, people get caught up on the brand name and disregard everything else.


So has anyone seen these in person? How about the shell ones? What do you think of them? If I were to be able to get a pair of shell for $300- would that be worth it- even if they are not Alden?


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

Mr. Mac said:


> I have a phenomenal customer that won't wear anything but Florsheim gunboats. He's worn them ever since he was a young salesman for IBM in the 60's. I asked him why he loves them so much, his response, "Because these are the shoes you wear when it's time to kick some a**, and I've awoke every morning of my life ready to go kick some".


Wow, great way to put it. I had a client in Germany, and whenever I had a particularly tough meeting, I'd put on my old Florsheim Longwings.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

And POOF...they are gone. I had bookmarked the page and looked at it every couple days, thinking I'd try to nail a sale and get them for less. I wonder if this was the kind of Brooks vapor product that others have complained about in other threads?


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