# What is your experience with various eBay snipers/autobidders?



## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

Hello community,
I have been shopping at eBay for many years. It is obvious these days that old style bidding has been replaced with autobidders/ snipers. Some are free, some for pay. I think I will start using one which takes the fun away a little but that's life.
What is your experience with these software and/or websites in terms of efficiency, success, ease of use, and id security? Please post any negative and/or positive experiences for everyone's benefit.
I would also appreciate if people post their conflicts of interest, i.e. owner of the website)
Cheers


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## marshtj (Mar 3, 2008)

esnipe has worked great for me.


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## Finian McLonergan (Sep 23, 2009)

catside said:


> Hello community,
> I have been shopping at eBay for many years. It is obvious these days that old style bidding has been replaced with autobidders/ snipers.


I fail to see the logic of your argument. If you are present during the last minute of bidding, and enter your maximum bid during the last minute, there is practically no difference between you and the sniper. The sniper has no way of knowing what your maximum is.

Snipers are useful if you can't be present and want to avoid participating in early price ramps which can happen if you enter your maximum bid early on. But the idea that they can "steal" an item away from you right at the close only applies if you are bidding only in the minimum increments allowed by the auction, as would normally be the case in a physical auction.

By placing your maximum bid (which could well be a lot more than the current winning bid) duing the last minute of of the online auction, you eliminate any advantage the sniper may think s/he has.

And knowing in advance exactly how much you are prepared to pay and sticking to it is regarded as one of the cardinal rules of buying at auction, physical or online.


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## Master-Classter (Jan 22, 2009)

so why would someone use these then?



if you're not present, I still don't see why you wouldn't set your max bid and then just not be there when the auction closes. If you win, great, if not, then it's more then you were prepared to pay.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Master-Classter, that's pretty much right, insofar as it goes. However, it ignores the psychology of auctions, wherein your actions will influence the actions of another. If an item sits at $50 for 7 days, a prospective bidder may feel that $75 is the most that would be a good bargain. If it passes $75 on day 2, however, that same prospective bidder may well re-value the item in his mind, and conclude that $100 would be an attractive price to him. Most humans take signals about the value of things from the values that others attach to those same or comparable things, and auctions are no exception.

Thus, the (rational) point of using a sniper program, or bidding late yourself, is to _avoid_ influencing the bids of others.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm with Mr. McLonergan on this, though perhaps someone could convince me of my wrongheadedness.

If you enter your maximum bid, eBay itself effectively acts as your computerized bidder, and does almost the same thing the sniper does. The only difference is that eBay will "show your hand" by outbidding competing bidders as soon as they enter their bids, rather than waiting 'til the last second. But I can't see how that would make any difference if you wait until the last minute or so of the auction.

The main reason (that I can see) why a straight eBay bid might be problematic _early_ in an auction is really psychological. If, say, there are a dozen people interested in an item and they all look at it early on, each will have - either exactly, or at least vaguely - some idea of how much is the most he wants to pay. If they all (or just two of them) put in their real maxima through eBay early on, the item will run up to the slightly over the second-highest maximum right away. That leaves each of the other eleven interested buyers with a lot of time to think about whether he _really_ might go a _little_ (or even a lot) higher than what he thought his maximum price was. Psychologically, the price the "market" is willing to pay will creep (or perhaps even leap) up ... even if it creeps, a few days of creeping can cover a lot of dollars.

If the maximum each bidder were willing to pay were really fixed (_i.e._ if the psychology referred to above didn't come into play), and everyone entered his maximum, then all items would always go to the person with the highest maximum, and the price would always be close to the second-highest maximum (either exactly, or plus the bid increment, depending on in what order they entered their maximum bids).

There are some other reasons too, I suppose: bidders who are buying for resale and don't quite even know what they're bidding on, assorted nefarious schemes (that may or may not work anyway), etc.

But - as noted - if you put your bid in in the last minute or so, there's not really time for anything "funny" to happen.

EDITED TO ADD:

CuffDaddy said the same thing I did while I had the edit window open!


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

CuffDaddy said:


> Master-Classter, that's pretty much right, insofar as it goes. However, it ignores the psychology of auctions, wherein your actions will influence the actions of another. If an item sits at $50 for 7 days, a prospective bidder may feel that $75 is the most that would be a good bargain. If it passes $75 on day 2, however, that same prospective bidder may well re-value the item in his mind, and conclude that $100 would be an attractive price to him. Most humans take signals about the value of things from the values that others attach to those same or comparable things, and auctions are no exception.
> 
> Thus, the (rational) point of using a sniper program, or bidding late yourself, is to _avoid_ influencing the bids of others.


Yes! I agree and I think people's experiences with sniper software/websites will be useful to other members. I think sniper programs can beat the by hand bids or suddenly slowed connection etc with few seconds, which may be all the difference. No adrenaline rush though and that is a pity.


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## alphadelta (Oct 2, 2007)

I've bought about 25 items on ebay over the past couple of years and use the "last minute" method as stated by others and winning over 95% of my bids. I decide what an item is worth to me and place my bid within the last minute. If I win, great; if not, no big deal. Snipers are only useful if you will not be available to place that last minute bid.

AD


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## ilikeyourstyle (Apr 24, 2007)

Like others in this thread, I bid right at the end. The reasons to do this:

1. Bidding early gives other bidders information, and the less information you can give the other bidders, the better
2. Late bids give the other bidders less of a chance to revise their mental maximum bid, which due to the won/loss psychological nature of auctions, is constantly up for revision.
3. It's exciting...like a sporting contest that comes down to the wire.

I sometimes think that the ebay marketplace is very efficient, but I keep encountering situations where other bidders bid the minimum on an item, probably with the assumption that they can top it in the future if needed. Of course, when you bid at the end, they don't get that opportunity.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

I've used hammersnipe for years. When I see something I want, I decide the maximum I want to pay, enter that amount and with 5 seconds left my bid is placed--for just enough to top the previous bid. Other bidders never know I'm lurking and I never pay more than I think something is worth to me. I can put things in a bid group--say a camera when there are 50 listed--and if I win one my other bids are cancelled.

I have a pair of 8.5EEE Leeds in shell I sniped from under someone's nose. He immediately offered me $100 more than I paid. Sorry, they are one of my favorite shoes and I would have lost them in a bidding war.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

cdavant said:


> I've used hammersnipe for years. When I see something I want, I decide the maximum I want to pay, enter that amount and with 5 seconds left my bid is placed--for just enough to top the previous bid. Other bidders never know I'm lurking and I never pay more than I think something is worth to me. I can put things in a bid group--say a camera when there are 50 listed--and if I win one my other bids are cancelled.
> 
> I have a pair of 8.5EEE Leeds in shell I sniped from under someone's nose. He immediately offered me $100 more than I paid. Sorry, they are one of my favorite shoes and I would have lost them in a bidding war.


Thank you. So far we have two positive experiences:

esnipe- free to try 10 days, then 1% of the winning bid tops at $10. No bidding time info given.
hammersnipe- free to use for last 10sec bidding, they have a priority service for last 3 sec bidding, $9 a month.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

With Hammersnipe you have options as to when the bid is placed. I usually use 5 seconds, since 3 cuts things a bit close--but after the auction you can look at the bids and tell when you've been sniped. I can see no downside to using a snipe engine, unless you get off on bidding. Early in me eBay days, I'd sit and bid, and always paid more than I wanted. I'm about 10 short of my red star--just because I never buy a book, dvd, hosta--I've got a lot of hosta--without seeing what it's available for on eBay for first. I have probably 12 pairs of NIB AEs bought when I figured out their old system--list twice at a reasonable price, if it doesn't sell the third time start it at 0.01--for around $50 a pair.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

Just bid what you think an item is worth and if they overbid by sniping or regular bids, then they are welcome to it. If you are simply angry about not getting a bargain due to last minute interest then you lose by being too cheap. The sniping programs are handy but if one limits the maximum bid to the percieved value and you think an item is worth more, then you win.

Luckily very few items are unique. An identical item is probably going to be listed soon so even if you lose another opportunity is just a few days away. It is no big deal to lose an auction.

As disclosure I should point out that I am probably the guy you are bidding against so you should simply back off and not bid against me.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

catside said:


> Thank you. So far we have two positive experiences:
> 
> esnipe- free to try 10 days, then 1% of the winning bid tops at $10. No bidding time info given.
> hammersnipe- free to use for last 10sec bidding, they have a priority service for last 3 sec bidding, $9 a month.


Hammersnipe priority service gives you the option to choose how many seconds before auction end the bid will be placed. Free service no options, 10 to 20 seconds. It also has a handy snipetool that is bookmarked on the bookmark toolbar, simplifies operation when you are on an eBay page. I will test drive the free service.
Any other experiences?


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

Country Irish said:


> Just bid what you think an item is worth and if they overbid by sniping or regular bids, then they are welcome to it. If you are simply angry about not getting a bargain due to last minute interest then you lose by being too cheap. The sniping programs are handy but if one limits the maximum bid to the percieved value and you think an item is worth more, then you win.
> 
> Luckily very few items are unique. An identical item is probably going to be listed soon so even if you lose another opportunity is just a few days away. It is no big deal to lose an auction.
> 
> As disclosure I should point out that I am probably the guy you are bidding against so you should simply back off and not bid against me.


Never angry! Not for an auction I mean. It's just a game.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

catside said:


> Never angry! Not for an auction I mean. It's just a game.


Indeed it is just a game. That is another reason to never bid against me!

As a side note I have to wonder about people who bid an item through the ceiling just so they can"win". It doesn't make much sense to get too caught up in the auction mentality.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

I win the items I want 90% of the time. I have an incredibly fast internet connection so I wait until there's literally 3 seconds left and then submit my maximum bid, and it enters it a split second before the auction closes and I win. Most people on eBay are cheap and if you're willing to pay a reasonable price for the item, you won't be outbid. I don't buy clothes that much but I buy a lot of electronics and I'm always really happy with the price I end up paying. 

For anyone who still doesn't understand the logic behind the "last minute" method: if I place a max bid of 10 early on, and someone else bids 5 and then sees that I'm still winning, they'll often say "oh what the hell, I'll go ahead and bid 7 to see if I can get it." I then end up paying 8 instead of 6. Another bidder could even come along after that and bid 9, causing me to have to pay the full 10 instead of the initial 6. However, if I wait until the end and bid 10, I beat out the first bidder's 5 and end up paying 6, so while I may have been willing to pay 10, I saved 4 and came out even further on top. No point spending extra money if you don't have to.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

All that you've said is right on the mark, but who cares bout an incredibly fast internet connection when there's eSnipe? I set it to bid at 1 second before close and there's no extra fee for that.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

Peak and Pine said:


> All that you've said is right on the mark, but who cares bout an incredibly fast internet connection when there's eSnipe? I set it to bid at 1 second before close and there's no extra fee for that.


I'm not knocking eSnipe, if you like it use it. I've just never had to use it because I work on the computer so I'm on the internet a lot anyway and might as well just do it myself.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Remember snipe engines bid just before the auction closes and you don't have to be anywhere near the computer. Set it and forget it and learn if you won or lost the next morning. Also HS send you an email if you are outbid before the auction closes, giving you a chance to revise your bid. It can be useful if you see there are six bidders two days before the auction closes, meaning you probably underestimated what something is worth.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

cdavant said:


> Remember snipe engines bid just before the auction closes and you don't have to be anywhere near the computer. Set it and forget it and learn if you won or lost the next morning. Also HS send you an email if you are outbid before the auction closes, giving you a chance to revise your bid. It can be useful if you see there are six bidders two days before the auction closes, meaning you probably underestimated what something is worth.


So we are trying to figure out the optimum sniper software/website.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Let me quickly take you through eSnipe.

You call it up with the same name and password you use for eBay. You write in the auction # and it asks you three things: how many minutes before close do you want to be reminded. Huh, I say. Put a zero there. How long before the auction ends do you want to place your bid. Put 1 or 2 seconds there. And what is your max bid. Then hit enter. That's all there is to it.

You can opt to have an eSnipe icon in the tool bar called SnipeIt. When on an auction page, if you hit it, a small box drops down, you sign in and the auction number of the page you're on automatically fills in and you answer the three questions and that's it. You can change or delete your bid up until five-minutes before action time, after that you're doomed, but in a good way.


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## mjc (Nov 11, 2009)

auctionsniper.com works for me.

The nice thing about sniping is that you have lots of time to cancel impulse buying... whereas a bid with ebay directly can't be cancelled.

- Mike


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

mjc said:


> auctionsniper.com works for me.
> 
> The nice thing about sniping is that you have lots of time to cancel impulse buying... whereas a bid with ebay directly can't be cancelled.
> 
> - Mike


OK, prevention of impulse buying is another rationale. Good one! auctionsniper.com has similar fee structure to esnipe. I think eventually we will have a list of these. Thanks


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

I suppose if everybody used snipers (or just sat until the last few seconds and bid themselves), the eBay's auction format would stop acting like an open auction altogether. Perhaps that's already happened. The fact eBay auctions happen online, with a hard time limit, makes it pretty hard to protect the open nature of the auction, which exists in a live auction because it's run by an actual human auctioneer.

If the advantages of a live auction or gone, I wonder whether eBay (or a competitor) wouldn't just start offering - perhaps as a buyer-chosen alternative - a traditional sealed-bid auction.

The sealed-bid auction has the advantage (to sellers) of making the sale at the actual highest price, rather than just slightly over the second highest. The sellers would lose the advantage, which exists in at least _some_ truly open auctions, of the "psychological" element referred to in other posts, by which bidders, seeing others' behavior, may revise upwards the maximum amount they're willing to pay.

Other than the price element referred to above, a truly open auction doesn't appear to have any advantage to bidders, but consider: the bidders who - based on learning the information about just how much others value an item - revise their own maximum upwards may actually be _glad_, in retrospect, that they did so. If the value one ascribes to an item were truly objective and determinable, this could never be the case, but it seems unlikely to me that that is the case in the real world. In other words, the "psychological" effect referred to above may be psychological, but that doesn't mean it's psychotic ... people might really decide that an item is worth more to them than they at first thought it was.

I suppose eBay could force their auctions into being more "open" by, say, extending the expiration of each auction until two (or however many) minutes after the last bid is entered.

EBay seems, however, to be going the other way: toward more "buy it now" items and the like ... essentially, toward being just a general-purpose sale channel for distributors who want to sell goods directly at a discount. If you wanted to steal eBay's true auction business, you might want (in addition to raising a huge amount of money for marketing your service) to offer sellers alternative auction formats.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

Review of free hammersnipe service (not premium)
I went ahead and bid through hammersnipe on a Testoni shoe that I do not need but would not mind if get it real cheap. Registration took 2 minutes. Then you enter auction number (copy and paste, their browser tool not available for free account) and you are done. I put in $21 on a 9.99 opening bid, no bidders yet. About half an hour before auction end my bid was already under the max bid but hammersnipe did not send me a warning. I got an email that ebay refused my bid because was lower than the going bid after the auction ended. In the last three seconds there were three bids -most likely snipers but maybe people waiting on their computers- thus 10 second bid of free hammersnipe service is not really last minute. At the end highest bidder who also used the sniper won, 45 bucks, good value if it is right size and need.
Verdict: free service of hammersnipe is easy to use, but fails to pass the grade due to lack of warning of outbid, and being beaten by faster sniper engines. I am not sure if this is relevant as highest bid wins regardless. Still 10 sec is a long time in digital world.
It is good to bid and forget, free, and good to prevent impulse bids.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm still having problems with seeing the benefit of bidding later than 10 seconds before the auction ends.

Unless other bidders are actually seeing your bid, and reacting to it, nothing different happens if your bid is earlier or later (actually, it's _better_ earlier, because if it's later you need to beat the highest earlier bid by the increment).

I doubt anyone can reliably react in less than 10 seconds:

- No matter how fast your Internet connection runs, you're at the mercy of eBay's software and hardware if you want to see other bids, and eBay's system wasn't designed or intended to facilitate trading shoes the same way Goldman Sachs trades index option futures.

- You can't think and make fresh decisions that fast (at least not good ones). Sure, you could have software that employs some complex proprietary algorithm, but what would that algorithm _be_? It's not like these are liquid, tradable commodities where you can make a profit by instantaneous exploitation of tiny market movements (if they were, Goldman Sachs probably _would_ be trading shoes, and killing us at it).

In short: there's at least a theoretical benfit to putting your bid in after the "decision threshold," _i.e._ the point when others have time to see your bid, process the information you've conveyed to them thereby, and react in some way (most likely "psychologically," _i.e._ by adjusting their own estimate of what the maximum is they're willing to pay for the item).

It doesn't follow that going even later is even more advantageous. In fact, it seems to me that the ideal time to bid is exactly _at_ the deicision threshold, and not a second later. I'm not sure exactly where the decision threshold is, but I find it hard to believe it's later than 30 seconds, and for most items it's probably at least a minute, if not a good bit longer.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

Starch said:


> I'm still having problems with seeing the benefit of bidding later than 10 seconds before the auction ends.
> ...


I agree with most of your points. As I said I am not sure few seconds would be relevant as the highest bidder wins. The clear advantage of hammersnipe is you are not getting in a bidding war where reason may be momentarily waylaid. Another is you don't have to wait on computer. The particular disadvantage of this free service is lack of warnings for early outbids to rethink your strategy about valuation.

PS Second try for another auction bid 21 secs before auction end.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Because most bidders' priority, probably, is to get an item cheaply (click on _bid history_ to see the paltry increments most do) the bidder (me) who wants only to get the item at a fair price will most always win if he places $100 bids on $10 items through a sniper and walks away. DO IT IN THE LAST TWO SECONDS. I have won auctions by beating the guy who bid at three seconds. But price is a second priority. Getting the item at all is the first and that's because I use eBay to buy one-of-a-kind stuff that I can get no where else, ever.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

Peak and Pine said:


> Because most bidders' priority, probably, is to get an item cheaply (click on _bid history_ to see the paltry increments most do) the bidder (me) who wants only to get the item at a fair price will most always win if he places $100 bids on $10 items through a sniper and walks away. DO IT IN THE LAST TWO SECONDS. I have won auctions by beating the guy who bid at three seconds. But price is a second priority. Getting the item at all is the first and that's because I use eBay to buy one-of-a-kind stuff that I can get no where else, ever.


One of a kind items are a special situation where it is worthwile to bid in real time and be generous with the amounts. One can assess value in a second if familiar with the item. Sniping programs simply can not assess the situation and adjust for last minute bidders. Old books are a good example. Some are simpy availiable only because the owner has died or similar special situations and there is no second chance to add it to your collection. Thus live bidding is far superior to sniping software.


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## Master-Classter (Jan 22, 2009)

I like the point way above that you can bid on multiple of the same item and if you win one then it doesn't bid on the others.


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## chamjoe (Oct 26, 2009)

the problem with the snipers if you really want the item is that if your price gets beat you don't have time to re-bid. In a way this can help prevent you from overpaying for an item. As a whole I use ebay much less it has become harder and harder to find a deal with people paying more than items are worth of the time IMHO.


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