# English shoes - where to go for mid-range quality?



## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

I would greatly appreciate members' input on English shoes. 

I am in the fortunate position to be able to make some new acquisitions. Until I joined this forum, I haven't given much conscious thought to clothes and shoes (I've inherited what I think is the fairly good taste of my father). So I've tended to buy Church's for best, Loake for beaters and have some country boots from Trickers. (Yes, I know - there is great variation of quality in the current ranges produced by Church's and Loake, but I haven't bought new shoes in over five years.)

I've been reading through some old threads on shoes, and have noted a lot of 'static' about Church's following the Prada takeover. I think all my Church's shoes predate that (2000?).

My question is where would you look for quality in the mid-range these days? (EG, Lobb, G&G are beyond my means - I mean in the £200 to £400 range.) My instinct is to stick with Church's, but go with the custom grade.

(Needless to say, I appreciate fit is essential: I'm just looking for comments / suggestions to pull together a shortlist.)


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> I would greatly appreciate members' input on English shoes.
> 
> I am in the fortunate position to be able to make some new acquisitions. Until I joined this forum, I haven't given much conscious thought to clothes and shoes (I've inherited what I think is the fairly good taste of my father). So I've tended to buy Church's for best, Loake for beaters and have some country boots from Trickers. (Yes, I know - there is great variation of quality in the current ranges produced by Church's and Loake, but I haven't bought new shoes in over five years.)
> 
> ...


Balfour, might I encourage you to consider trying Herring? If you are confident of your foot size then mail order is not an issue. Free shoe tree for AAAC members too. The Herring premium range is manufactured by Cheaney and the two pairs I have purchased from them (Wilson boots and Chamberlain brogues) are truly beautiful shoes.

Loake 1880's are worthy of some serious consideration too. My Aldwych are rather lovely shoes and improving as they age.

Crockett & Jones will be my next purchase, I have drooled over them in the shop (we have a very impressive gentleman's footwear outlet in Manchester) but truly cannot justify their purchase at this time. I can relate, though, that after close examination they are constructed with what appears to me (without ripping them apart, obviously) a very high standard of craft and better yet visually exclaim quality.

I cannot comment on Church as I have always considered them to be the default shoe for men who are 'going up' in the world. Being a gentleman with a definite downward trajectory, I have thus avoided them. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Church's custom grade are nice shoes, but Crockett and Jones definitely fit your budget as well and may be a bit nicer midrange shoes.
Alfred Sargent's exclusive range is another to look at. I have purchased several pair from A Fine Pair of Shoes, and have always been pleased with their pricing and service (shoes usually arrive in the US a day after ordering!) I believe they ship free to the UK.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Balfour, might I encourage you to consider trying Herring? If you are confident of your foot size then mail order is not an issue. Free shoe tree for AAAC members too. The Herring premium range is manufactured by Cheaney and the two pairs I have purchased from them (Wilson boots and Chamberlain brogues) are truly beautiful shoes.


Having had a look on their website, they look very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, have you had them long and have they worn well?

Do any other members have experience of Herring?



Shaver said:


> I cannot comment on Church as I have always considered them to be the default shoe for men who are 'going up' in the world. Being a gentleman with a definite downward trajectory, I have thus avoided them. :icon_smile_wink:


Good Lord. Never heard this before. I suspect gentlemen are not unduly concerned with their trajectory!:icon_smile_wink:


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> Church's custom grade are nice shoes, but Crockett and Jones definitely fit your budget as well and may be a bit nicer midrange shoes.
> Alfred Sargent's exclusive range is another to look at. I have purchased several pair from A Fine Pair of Shoes, and have always been pleased with their pricing and service (shoes usually arrive in the US a day after ordering!) I believe they ship free to the UK.


Good suggestion - was planning to try C&J.

Church's fall into the 'tried, tested and liked' category (at least from 10 plus years ago) - does anyone have any recent experiences to share on quality?

The main thing I noticed was the prices are pretty steep for the mid-range (e.g. c. £350 for Consul custom grade, more for half-brogues). Even if the quality has held up, do people think they continue to offer value for money or can you get more bang for your buck?


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Balfour said:


> Good suggestion - was planning to try C&J.
> 
> Church's fall into the 'tried, tested and liked' category (at least from 10 plus years ago) - does anyone have any recent experiences to share on quality?
> 
> The main thing I noticed was the prices are pretty steep for the mid-range (e.g. c. £350 for Consul custom grade, more for half-brogues). Even if the quality has held up, do people think they continue to offer value for money or can you get more bang for your buck?


Yes, I have two pairs of Custom Grade, both post Prada take over - Diplomat semi brogue and Lingfield Oxford with toe cap (on the smooth 108 last). Both black.

I think even at current prices they do represent vfm. Interestingly, the Diplomats have a full leather lining where the Lingfields make do with part fabric linings. Both date from 2006 and have yet to go back to Church's for any repair.

Incidentally the Diplomats were a replacement pair offered by Church's when they 'damaged' a 2000 pair they were refurbishing (I just paid the repair price of £80)


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

No idea of your size, but if you are still interested in Church's, Herring have had quite a few at sale prices for a while now. At least they do in a 7.5.

I have two pairs of Herring's own brand shoes. Henley spectators, which I rarely wear, and the summer hasn't really arrived here yet, and Burgh boots. The boots were bought as factory seconds from their shop in Devon but developed a fault after 6 months wear. Adrian Herring had them resoled at no cost to me. Their customer service is excellent.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> Having had a look on their website, they look very interesting. If you don't mind me asking, have you had them long and have they worn well?


The boots I have owned for over a year and not only are they wearing very well but also after an application of conditioning cream and a buff with a soft cloth they look as good as any shoe I have ever seen. 
The shoes are only a couple of months old but did not require 'breaking in', fit absolutely perfectly and (if I am any judge) have all the hallmarks of a shoe that will last.

Both pairs are well crafted, the grain is fine, the lustre subtle. Both are extremely comfortable to wear and fully leather lined.

More generally, there is a perspective which allows the following notion concerning a level above which the amount one spends on a shoe ceases to adequately correlate with its improvement. Is a £50 pair twice as good as a £25 pair? Definitely. Are £100 shoes twice as good as £50 shoes? Easily. Are £300 shoes superior to £150 shoes? Absolutely. Are £600 shoes twice as good as £300? Probably not. Once the construction is of high enough quality, the calfskin very reasonable and the craftsmanship fine (which is achievable around the £300 mark) then every £50 further that you expend seems (to me) to provide considerably less than £50 worth of perceivable improvement.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Shaver said:


> More generally, there is a perspective which allows the following notion concerning a level above which the amount one spends on a shoe ceases to adequately correlate with its improvement. Is a £50 pair twice as good as a £25 pair? Definitely. Are £100 shoes twice as good as £50 shoes? Easily. Are £300 shoes superior to £150 shoes? Absolutely. Are £600 shoes twice as good as £300? Probably not. Once the construction is of high enough quality, the calfskin very reasonable and the craftsmanship fine (which is achievable around the £300 mark) then every £50 further that you expend seems (to me) to provide considerably less than £50 worth of perceivable improvement.


This encapsulates my philosophy perfectly. (But it wouldn't stop me from stocking up on Edward Greens if budget was not an issue ...)


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

I recommend the Herring website too; fast and efficient service and plenty of variety. Plus the free shoe tree as Shaver mentioned.

I purchased a pair of Cheaney semi-brogues from them not so long ago, and I am mighty pleased with the shoes. The only downside, for me, in purchasing a decent pair shoes is that I have to have a Topy sole placed upon the existing leather one, which seems like a crime.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Jake Genezen said:


> I recommend the Herring website too; fast and efficient service and plenty of variety. Plus the free shoe tree as Shaver mentioned.
> 
> I purchased a pair of Cheaney semi-brogues from them not so long ago, and I am mighty pleased with the shoes. The only downside, for me, in purchasing a decent pair shoes is that I have to have a Topy sole placed upon the existing leather one, which seems like a crime.


Vis-a-vis Topys I walk an unavoidable and considerable distance in my shoes each day (first to the railway station and then to my place of work at the other end of the journey) perhaps an hours walking in total- and I walk _very_ quickly. Thus, especially with my gate which wears the centre of the right sole more quickly, my shoes visit the cobblers more often than I would like; perhaps once a year on a maximum of twice a week wearing. However I have an excellent cobbler who understands and reflects my pride in my footwear. Premium leather soles well fitted and nourished (Solonil Sole tonic being my preference) can eliminate the need for any rubber prosthetics.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

In London, John Rushton has good shoes at good prices
https://johnrushtonshoes.com/

Northampton factories are another option I have bought from Churchs, Trickers and Lobb that way. A good idea to ask what they have in your size first though.


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

Shaver said:


> Vis-a-vis Topys I walk an unavoidable and considerable distance in my shoes each day (first to the railway station and then to my place of work at the other end of the journey) perhaps an hours walking in total- and I walk _very_ quickly. Thus, especially with my gate which wears the centre of the right sole more quickly, my shoes visit the cobblers more often than I would like; perhaps once a year on a maximum of twice a week wearing. However I have an excellent cobbler who understands and reflects my pride in my footwear. Premium leather soles well fitted and nourished (Solonil Sole tonic being my preference) can eliminate the need for any rubber prosthetics.


I will definitely bear this in mind as I am now seeking to invest in better quality shoes. I think a couple of bad experiences with leather soles made me over cautious.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

*English shoes - US equivalents*

Thanks for the suggestions, chaps - very helpful. I will definitely follow up with Herring, and call on Crockett & Jones and Trickers.

On a different note - and given that our American cousins are now online - I would be interested in any views people have on how English makers compare to American makers? So much of the discussion on the forum revolves around Allen Edmonds and Alden, and I'd like to have some context! My best guess is that AE are in the lower mid- to mid-range (Cheaney, perhaps) and Alden are more analogous to C&J / Church's custom grade. But does anyone have actual experience of both the American and English makers?


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Balfour said:


> On a different note - and given that our American cousins are now online - I would be interested in any views people have on how English makers compare to American makers? So much of the discussion on the forum revolves around Allen Edmonds and Alden, and I'd like to have some context! My best guess is that AE are in the lower mid- to mid-range (Cheaney, perhaps) and Alden are more analogous to C&J / Church's custom grade. But does anyone have actual experience of both the American and English makers?


Not really relevant unless you want longwings and intend to buy them when you are in the US. Otherwise for most Brits they not price competitive. Rushton stocks them though if you want to see them in London

https://putthison.com/post/7422451907/check-out-this-wonderful-video-about-john-rushton


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

Balfour said:


> My question is where would you look for quality in the mid-range these days? (EG, Lobb, G&G are beyond my means - I mean in the £200 to £400 range.)


If you can wait for the summer sales and increase that price budget by £50, Edward Green.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Kingstonian said:


> Not really relevant unless you want longwings and intend to buy them when you are in the US. Otherwise for most Brits they not price competitive. Rushton stocks them though if you want to see them in London
> 
> https://putthison.com/post/7422451907/check-out-this-wonderful-video-about-john-rushton


More curiosity than any intention to purchase. They tend to be thrown around as the 'go to' shoemakers here, and I was interested in how they compared to English shoes.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*English Shoes*

I have a number of pairs of English shoes: EG's, Lobbs, Loake and bespoke Cleverleys. In addition I have a couple of pairs of AE's and a couple of pairs of Aldens.

I prefer the fit, finish and, especially, the style and smartness of English shoes. The classic EG 202 last in a captoe oxford is wonderfully trim and stylish compared to anything else except the Cleverleys.

Many of my fellow Americans seem to like clunky double soled longwing shoes, somewhat like EG Malverns or Lobb Darbeys, only heavy-looking. Even AE's trim-looking offerings on their Number 5 last are not as smart as comparable designs on the EG 202 last.

On the other hand, Rancourt beefroll penny loafers, of which I have a pair, are the ultimate expression of the Norwegian-inspired handsewn moccasin-styled shoe.

I hope this perspective is helpful.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## IvanD (Jan 5, 2012)

It may be worth checking out John White.

https://www.johnwhiteshoes.com/

Not a huge range, but for the price, I have found them to be of excellent quality.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Premium leather soles well fitted and nourished (Solonil Sole tonic being my preference) can eliminate the need for any rubber prosthetics.


Can you tell me where to buy this?
I've just Googled "Solonil Sole" and the only thing it comes up with is a link back to this thread.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Odradek said:


> Can you tell me where to buy this?
> I've just Googled "Solonil Sole" and the only thing it comes up with is a link back to this thread.


forgive me my typo it is _*C*_olonil sole guard and is available on Amazon under this name. I will correct my original post if I can. (I cant)


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

What about Sanders?

That's not meant as rhetorical question: I am actually just throwing it out thinking someone else might know something about them. They seem to be priced in the same range as Loakes, just from looking at websites that sell both (a little higher in the top "Diplomat" line, actually).


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## Chris Liu (Apr 29, 2012)

In my most humble opinion Vass Budapest is the best shoe for the money. A lot of mid range English shoe makers are probably still machine welted and of lesser quality. I think Vass run $700 for the RTW.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

IvanD said:


> It may be worth checking out John White.
> 
> https://www.johnwhiteshoes.com/
> 
> Not a huge range, but for the price, I have found them to be of excellent quality.


I think John White shoes are made in Spain or Portugal. I notice they describe themselves on their website as "suppliers' of shoes.


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## pichao (Apr 13, 2008)

I can also recommend Vass shoes. I paid around 500 euros for double monkstraps with steel toe caps. That included shoetrees and shipping...


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Balfour said:


> On a different note - and given that our American cousins are now online - I would be interested in any views people have on how English makers compare to American makers? So much of the discussion on the forum revolves around Allen Edmonds and Alden, and I'd like to have some context! My best guess is that AE are in the lower mid- to mid-range (Cheaney, perhaps) and Alden are more analogous to C&J / Church's custom grade. But does anyone have actual experience of both the American and English makers?


I generally agree with this--although, I prefer C&J to Alden. AE is a great entry level shoe (at least, entry level amongst this crowd). The biggest difference I see between AE and Herring, etc. is the styling. Same with Alden v. C&J.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

As the OP should have worked out by now, there is a huge selection of sites and brands. 

Sites: Shipton & Heneage, Herring, Pediwear, A fine pair of shoes, and plenty of others
Mid-range/mid-range-plus: Loake 1880, Grenson Rose Coll, Trickers, Cheaney, Alfred Sargent, Crockett & Jones, Church's, etc. 

Owing to the efficiency of pricing and competition in the UK, you can't really arbitrage quality or price - a £250 retail price shoes will be better than a £200 pair and worse than a £300 pair (though it's not entirely linear). Whatever you decide to pay in this middle range, ignoring special sales/discounts, you will find that the pair of shoes you buy willl be worth that. None of us can tell you what's the right amount to pay!


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## marcl (Jun 9, 2012)

I am surprised no one has mentioned Sanders. (hi by the way, first post) I have just bought a pair of Sanders 'Jude'









Very well made and made entirely in England. Might not be to some people taste as they are more of a country brogue. But there appears to be very little difference in workmanship with Trickers. They are also a little less clunky than the Trickers 4444 last, so have IMO a slightly nicer form. Not quite as good leather but at £220 they are very good value. The best part is the fact that you can buy them from ASOS, as I did and now and then they have some good discount codes. In my case 24% off! £167.:biggrin2:

Of course they do make some very nice business shoes as well, in the Diplomat range. Well worth a look at.

Marc.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

StephenRG said:


> ... None of us can tell you what's the right amount to pay!


Nice quip, but not a question I ever asked.

Not so much with shoes (given the paucity of my recent purchases), but - more generally - my experience is that there is great variation in quality in items that are similarly priced.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

smujd said:


> I generally agree with this--although, I prefer C&J to Alden. AE is a great entry level shoe (at least, entry level amongst this crowd). The biggest difference I see between AE and Herring, etc. is the styling. Same with Alden v. C&J.


Thanks for this (and the posts from others) on the American brands. They get bandied about quite a bit here so those posts have been helpful for my frame of reference!


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## iamogfan (Apr 27, 2012)

Does C&J have factory seconds?


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

iamogfan said:


> Does C&J have factory seconds?


Yes. Though the shop only opens Fridays and Saturday mornings, Usually quite a few others looking so you may not find anything you like.


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## chrstc (Jun 11, 2007)

Hello,

If you're not in a hurry, and particularly if you'd like to have a hand in designing the exact details of your footwear in some way, then I'd highly recommend Cliff Roberts in Northampton. Full details in this enormous thread on SF but also search this forum for a thread with more images, including some of my own shoes to date. He will work with bespoke lasts too which is an added attraction and will still come in within your stated budget.

https://www.styleforum.net/t/110988/my-balmoral-boots

Chris.


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## iamogfan (Apr 27, 2012)

Kingstonian said:


> Yes. Though the shop only opens Fridays and Saturday mornings, Usually quite a few others looking so you may not find anything you like.


Is it only in person or do they have a website or some kind of catalog?


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

iamogfan said:


> Is it only in person or do they have a website or some kind of catalog?


It is at the factory. Some of the buyers probably put shoes straight on to eBay.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Balfour said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, chaps - very helpful. I will definitely follow up with Herring, and call on Crockett & Jones and Trickers.
> 
> On a different note - and given that our American cousins are now online - I would be interested in any views people have on how English makers compare to American makers? So much of the discussion on the forum revolves around Allen Edmonds and Alden, and I'd like to have some context! My best guess is that AE are in the lower mid- to mid-range (Cheaney, perhaps) and Alden are more analogous to C&J / Church's custom grade. But does anyone have actual experience of both the American and English makers?


The question of Alden vs. Allen-Edmonds has been the subject of innumerable debates in this forum over the years. Some claim that Alden is cut above A-E, others emphatically deny it. We don't get to see too many English shoes aside from Brooks-Peales in my part of the world. From the few pairs I have seen, I get the sense that C&J Benchgrades are more or less in the same ballpark as A-E and Alden while the Handgrades do seem a little more refined. However, there is a substantial coterie of Internet Gentlemen who will maintain that any shoe manufactured in Northampton is ipso facto far superior to any remotely comparable footwear manufactured elsewhere in the world--especially in as vulgar and plebeian a place as the USA!


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

JLibourel said:


> However, there is a substantial coterie of Internet Gentlemen who will maintain that any shoe manufactured in Northampton is ipso facto far superior to any remotely comparable footwear manufactured elsewhere in the world--especially in as vulgar and plebeian a place as the USA!


Whereas a Northampton shoe is, by and large, unappreciated in its country of origin. Northampton shoe museum is an eye opener. Yet look at what the locals are wearing. Or go into the factory shops and see who is buying. Lobb seems to be full of orientals, so they are happy with the small sizes (and maybe Lobb loafers as well).


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## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

*Second vote for Sanders*

I agree with mard's post above. If the original poster is looking for a good mid-range English shoe, I have been very pleased with Sanders. I own the Holborn chukka boot, from their second tier Ambassador range, and I find its quality vastly superior to Loake Shoemaker range and the old Alfred Sargent Classic range and approaching Loake's 1880 range and the old AS Exclusive range (I know AS has revamped their Exclusive range lately, however). That said, the Holborn comes in easy leathers to fudge like Scotch grain and suede, and I don't doubt that their smooth leathers are less than top quality and may be corrected or "polished." Based on my Holborns, I would have no hesitation looking to Sanders Ambassadors first next time or recommending them at ~150 pounds as a very commendable mid-range English shoe.


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## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

I think the Alden vs Allen-Edmonds debate is somewhat like the Coke/Pepsi Ford/Chevy debate (Americans seem to like debates of this sort). I have owned several (alas, too many) of both, and I don't think there is a qualitative difference. I think Allen-Edmonds offers far better customer service and a wider range of styles and lasts. Aldens are beefier but sometimes sloppily made (they regard a 1/8 inch gap or more where the welt joins as acceptable). Alden ships half of what it makes to Japan, and those of us with Nordic feet are left to buy what we can when Alden gets around to making them. Allen-Edmonds allows you to buy direct from the factory or custom make your own for a little more, and they have stores in most larger cities. I think the difference is more between Tricker's and C&J than between Church's and Cheaney. Personality and devotion rather than quality and durability. Alden has a distinct personality and all of its shoes look somewhat the same. If you love them you tend to really love them, and you pay extra for the love (Tricker's). If you don't particularly love them, they don't stack up well in price over quality relative to Allen-Edmonds. Wolverine is inching into the shoe market from its boot roots and is offering some interesting dressier models at about the AE pricepoint, and folks tend to forget that Frye also makes its better shoes and boots in Arkansas still.


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## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

I think I have about ten pairs of Church's, all bought within the last 5 years. I can confirm that they remain very high quality shoes, if you buy in the Custom Grade in calf leather (there are some corrected grain ones out there which are to be avoided). All of them are wearing up well, including the two which get particularly heavy use. 

I am not such a fan of the new 'city' line from Churchs.

If I had a budget of £400 for some new shoes I would however check the sale at Edward Green and make a visit to the factory shops for EG, Church, Lobb, C&J etc. Make it an adventure!

For lesser quality shoes and ankle boots, at a more reasonable price, I am a big fan of Joseph Cheaney. Their range has gone a bit fashion forward since the takeover by the Church brothers, but its a pleasure to partake in the enthusiasm for shoes of this still-UK owned brand. I am given to understand that the shoes Cheaney make for Herring are particularly good, but haven't tried them yet.


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## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

I can without any reservation recommend Church's. I know that there's much polemic here on this forum on the apparent recent going down in quality, something I cannot comment on, since I don't own pre Prada models but the actual offerings are of very good quality. Church's are, in my opinion, the hallmark of high quality English footwear and models like the Consul and Chetwynd are must haves in a classic wardrobe. Although they're above your financial cut off line I recommend looking at the Graftons in shell (called crup by Curch's). That's a marvelous and very well made and solid shoe but keep in mind that it runs slightly large compared to the other Church's models. The last Church's I purchased is a Charles II, made expecially for Herring's. Now that's a wonderful shoe coming with an oak bark sole and uppers iof highest quality made on a slighty different last slightly sleeker and more elegant than the regular custom grades.


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## 3holic (Mar 6, 2008)

I read on another forum that EG is having a pop up sale in London where their shoes are selling in your price range. Don't know if I am allowed to post a link here. You should be able to find it by Googling it.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

3holic said:


> I read on another forum that EG is having a pop up sale in London where their shoes are selling in your price range. Don't know if I am allowed to post a link here. You should be able to find it by Googling it.


As far as I know, and sadly I didn't get to go, that Edward Green sale was only from July 18th to 22nd.

Here's the price range shoes were selling at.
Boots: £350-£395
Oxfords/Derbies: £295
Loafers: £195-£250

Got this info from Justin FitzPatrick's Shoe Snob website.


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## Busterdog (Jan 1, 2010)

I'm looking for penny loafers in brown (I already own the Alden LHS in cigar), currently it's a toss up between Paul Stuart's 'Dorner' tassels and Church's 'Pembrey' - any advice on differences in quality. I know the Paul Stuart's are Bookbinder leather, seem overpriced at $495. I think the Church's are GBP233. (exclusive of VAT) though I've no idea of their leather quality.


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## dwebber18 (Jun 5, 2008)

I really like my 3 pairs of Alfred Sargents. I know their line is a little different than when I purchased mine but they are a good deal and are very high quality shoes. I've got Aldens and AEs and Rancourt but my Alfred Sargent's seem to use the highest quality leather of any shoe I've owned. They are also really comfortable and I have three different styles on three different lasts. As someone else above stated that the styling and fit of British shoes is superior to all of the American shoes I have. I really like my Indy boots and my shell LHS and AE Strands but the Sargents and C&J are better designed and gorgeously proportioned.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Balfour said:


> Good Lord. Never heard this before. I suspect gentlemen are not unduly concerned with their trajectory!:icon_smile_wink:


All is well. As the economic goes down, the socio goes up.


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## MikeVK (Jul 28, 2014)

Balfour said:


> I would greatly appreciate members' input on English shoes.
> 
> I am in the fortunate position to be able to make some new acquisitions. Until I joined this forum, I haven't given much conscious thought to clothes and shoes (I've inherited what I think is the fairly good taste of my father). So I've tended to buy Church's for best, Loake for beaters and have some country boots from Trickers. (Yes, I know - there is great variation of quality in the current ranges produced by Church's and Loake, but I haven't bought new shoes in over five years.)
> 
> ...


I'd go for Trickers or Barker. Here is couple of UK shops you might be interested herringshoes.co.uk and https://english-brands.co.uk


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## DG123 (Sep 16, 2011)

Balfour said:


> On a different note - and given that our American cousins are now online - I would be interested in any views people have on how English makers compare to American makers? So much of the discussion on the forum revolves around Allen Edmonds and Alden, and I'd like to have some context! My best guess is that AE are in the lower mid- to mid-range (Cheaney, perhaps) and Alden are more analogous to C&J / Church's custom grade. But does anyone have actual experience of both the American and English makers?


Alden and Allen Edmonds companies appreciate the significance of fit, and as such offer multiple width sizing.
As far as I know the English brands typically offer only two widths, one that is somewhat medium and another which is more wide. Consequently a consumer with a shallow and, or narrow width foot will not be able to get a good fitting English made shoe.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Starch said:


> What about Sanders?
> 
> That's not meant as rhetorical question: I am actually just throwing it out thinking someone else might know something about them. They seem to be priced in the same range as Loakes, just from looking at websites that sell both (a little higher in the top "Diplomat" line, actually).


I have a pair of Sanders that I got in 1983, as far as I remember, which I still wear and are still in good condition. Does that answer your question?


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## Fred G. Unn (Jul 12, 2011)

MikeVK said:


> I'd go for Trickers or Barker. Here is couple of UK shops you might be interested herringshoes.co.uk and https://english-brands.co.uk


Heck of a necro-bump there. Useful info, but I bet Balfour figured out in the almost 2 years since he started the thread.


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## jeffreyc (Apr 8, 2010)

+1 for Crockett and Jones, I have had a Cordovan for many years with no problems. Although I have been lurking around the Vass website for many months. It seems as soon as you put the word English in front of things, the price rises (not correctly IMO)


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## FullFathomFive (Jul 23, 2014)

Some cheaper/mid range options for English shoes (Northampton too, being the home of the English shoe):

Chapman & Moore
John White

There is a UK discount store called TK Maxx which stocks them alongside Loake at heavily discounted prices. These are usually out of season.

Hope this helps.

My first post on here.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

DG123 said:


> Alden and Allen Edmonds companies appreciate the significance of fit, and as such offer multiple width sizing.
> As far as I know the English brands typically offer only two widths, one that is somewhat medium and another which is more wide. Consequently a consumer with a shallow and, or narrow width foot will not be able to get a good fitting English made shoe.


A consumer with a narrow and/or shallow width foot will be able to get a good fitting pair of English shoes if they can afford to go the bespoke route. Otherwise, American shoes are the only way to go for consumers with narrow and/or shallow width foot.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I've mentioned Sanders and Sanders before. I own two pair of their casual shoes, and find they offer an outstanding value in quality footwear.

For those interested in more formal styles their _Diplomat _range is their top-of-line, and offers fine calf leather, refined lasts and superb build quality for around $350 ex-VAT.







https://www.sanders-uk.com/shop/category/diplomats

Edit: Sorry, see many UK members attending, it's about 250 Pounds Sterling *with* VAT.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

I would second Alfred Sargent's shoes in terms of quality and price. https://www.afinepairofshoes.co.uk/ often has sales on AS - the best part is they offer free worldwide shipping, free Saphir polish AND free shoe trees with every shoe purchase. you absolutely can't beat that. Julian at AFPOS offers great customer service and is very helpful with sizing. I own the AS Moore in chestnut and love it.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

FullFathomFive said:


> Some cheaper/mid range options for English shoes (Northampton too, being the home of the English shoe):
> 
> Chapman & Moore
> John White
> ...


Sorry, as it's your first post, but those aren't really English shoes - both 'zombie' brands, made elsewhere.

Answering the OP, which itself is somewhat of a zombie posting from 2012, resuscitated by some unasked-for kiss of life, I would unhesitatingly recommend Crockett & Jones.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Fred G. Unn said:


> Heck of a necro-bump there. Useful info, but I bet Balfour figured out in the almost 2 years since he started the thread.


Yes, indeed I did. Foster & Son have become a firm favourite, along with C&J. Loake 1880s remain perfectly acceptable.


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## FullFathomFive (Jul 23, 2014)

Langham said:


> Sorry, as it's your first post, but those aren't really English shoes - both 'zombie' brands, made elsewhere.
> 
> Answering the OP, which itself is somewhat of a zombie posting from 2012, resuscitated by some unasked-for kiss of life, I would unhesitatingly recommend Crockett & Jones.


Interesting, i thought they were still made in Northampton. Do you know who owns the brands now then?

There is so much of this going on, people buying old brands and just stamping the name on much lesser quality product.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

FullFathomFive said:


> Interesting, i thought they were still made in Northampton. Do you know who owns the brands now then?
> 
> There is so much of this going on, people buying old brands and just stamping the name on much lesser quality product.


There is an old thread about Chapman & Moore here.

John White is still (I believe) an independent company, once one of the biggest shoemakers in Northants. They are rather coy about where their shoes are now made. The story on their website stops at around 1950 - probably it's wherever they can get the work done most cheaply, which is not here.


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## Fred G. Unn (Jul 12, 2011)

The decline of Grenson has been sort of sad to see too. The G:Lab and G:Two lines are made in India, and many of the G:One line shoes, while still made in Northampton, use corrected grain leathers. The G:Zero line at £460.00 is really above "mid-range quality" that I associate with C&J Benchgrade and AS Exclusive since for that price you could get C&J Handgrade. I have no direct experience with the G:Zero line, but I have two pairs of C&J Handgrades and they are really excellent shoes.

Someone had linked to this video over in the "Leather Quality" thread on SF, but after watching it I have a hard time supporting "made in India" shoes:





Contrast that with a tannery like Baker:


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

I have a really well made pair of Grenson boots, but they're probably 15 years old, perhaps a bit more. Still beautiful despite a re-soling three years ago.


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## Fred G. Unn (Jul 12, 2011)

Chouan said:


> I have a really well made pair of Grenson boots, but they're probably 15 years old, perhaps a bit more. Still beautiful despite a re-soling three years ago.


Yeah, I currently have some Grenson for Paul Stuart loafers, and have had a couple of other Grensons in the past. With their current production methods I won't likely be buying any in the future though. Nothing against their G:Zero line, but at that price point there are just so many other options I'd rather buy. Some of their older shoes are excellent though. Congrats on the boots!


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Fred G. Unn said:


> The decline of Grenson has been sort of sad to see too. The G:Lab and G:Two lines are made in India, and many of the G:One line shoes, while still made in Northampton, use corrected grain leathers. The G:Zero line at £460.00 is really above "mid-range quality" that I associate with C&J Benchgrade and AS Exclusive since for that price you could get C&J Handgrade. I have no direct experience with the G:Zero line, but I have two pairs of C&J Handgrades and they are really excellent shoes.
> 
> Someone had linked to this video over in the "Leather Quality" thread on SF, but after watching it I have a hard time supporting "made in India" shoes:
> 
> ...


Interesting videos. I saw some men working at a tannery in Marrakesh recently - they seemed to be up to their waists in the tanning liquids.

Grenson's decision to make some of their shoes in India is rather sad and devalues the brand, but no doubt they see it as a purely commercial decision that keeps them afloat. I still like some of their made in England shoes.


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