# Hawaiian shirts ARE trad!



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Long a favorite of mine, I remember news photos of President Eisenhower on Holiday wearing them. But for any who may have remained unconvinced, I now have incontrovertible *proof* that Hawaiian shirts are indeed traditional!









Were they not traditional before he wore them, they certainly were after!

https://maxminimus.blogspot.com/2012/05/trad-ivy-tuesday-mr-secretary-and.html


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Thank you sir.

:icon_hailthee:


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

> Aloha shirts manufactured for local wear are considered formal wear in business and government, and thus are regarded as equivalent to a shirt, coat, and tie (generally impractical in the warmer climate of Hawaii) in all but the most formal of settings.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_shirt


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

I never knew they weren't... :icon_smile_wink:


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)




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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Dead on. When the temperature gets above 75 it's too hot for a tie and when it gets above 80 it's too hot for a coat. Break out the aloha shirts!


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

I say they are, but only if worn with a mustache as awesome as the first pic...


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> Dead on. When the temperature gets above 75 it's too hot for a tie and when it gets above 80 it's too hot for a coat. Break out the aloha shirts!


80 too hot?? That's Christmas day here..:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

leisureclass said:


> I say they are, but only if worn with a mustache as awesome as the first pic...


And now you understand why I don't live there! San Antone is a lovely city but I am a native born, SoCal Coastie/weather wimp. Below 60 I bundle up. Above 80 I complain, whimper, snivel and strip down as far a public decency allows. :biggrin:


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Good to know. Now I can tell all my friends to shove it when they laugh at my aloha shirts. 

Interestingly, I spent a good amount of time down in Oxford, MS, and it is one of the few places I have been where short sleeved ocbds are, without hyperbole, ubiquitous. Rightly so, it's probably mid-90's with 80% humidity down there right now.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Acme said:


>


Great find! If it's good enough for Harry, it's good enough for me. One of the most dapper of cheif executives, and to my knowledge, the only one to have been a haberdasher. (Not so wild about his choice in the photo however.)


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

sbdivemaster said:


> I never knew they weren't... :icon_smile_wink:


Exactly! Too many images show them as slob wear. I like to wear them with tailored trousers and polished pennies.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

And a good panama hat. Just the ticket for _al fresco_ dining, especially near the sea.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Reyn Spooner's button-down popovers are the "traddest" of all, IMO. Even J. Press has carried them in the past.


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## chadwick (Apr 27, 2010)

Like OMGZ, I'm so going to have to go out and buy Hawaiian shirts now!!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Stick to Reyn Spooner and Kamehameha and you'll be tight. Tommy Bahama is okay but only if you can get them seriously marked down.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

I've got quite a few Hilo Hatties, but they're in my personal stash; I sell Alohas on the side, if anyone is interested - all 100% cotton, made in USA, matching pocket, coconut buttons... the good stuff!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> Stick to Reyn Spooner and Kamehameha and you'll be tight. Tommy Bahama is okay but only if you can get them seriously marked down.


Reyn Spooner does indeed make very nice Hawaiian shirts such as the one posted by Topsider, but my personal favorites through trial and error are those from Tori Richard -









I find their designs most attractrive, and these are made from cotton lawn, which I consider the near perfect cloth for both comfort and appearance in hot, humid weather.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

For cotton, as opposed to the traditional rayon, I like the Paradise Found make.


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

I've got a couple of PRL Hawaiian shirts that you guys just gave me permission to break out.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Not quite warm enough, here, yet. It's still polo and sport coat weather. By the first of July, though . . .


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Read some Reyn Spooner history.

AKA the "Brooks Brothers of the Pacific," standard business-casual for Hawaii and coastal SoCal, 1960-1990.

Older gentlemen around here wear hardly anything else.

On anyone under 60 it's rare outside of a yacht club. Inside, still plenty.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Perhaps sometimes the question is not "is it trad?" but "does it look good?".


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Bjorn said:


> Perhaps sometimes the question is not "is it trad?" but "does it look good?".


It looks better than sweating.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> It looks better than sweating.


Exactly. Of course, one must take one's connotations into account. I'm sure an aloha shirt _would_ come across as odd in Stockholm. But then I suspect that the problem of being soaked in sweat without heavy exercise is much reduced in Sweden. Down here? Uh-_huh!_


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> It looks better than sweating.


And there are no options?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> Exactly. Of course, one must take one's connotations into account. I'm sure an aloha shirt _would_ come across as odd in Stockholm. But then I suspect that the problem of being soaked in sweat without heavy exercise is much reduced in Sweden. Down here? Uh-_huh!_


What with all the sex and looking out for polar bears, it's a wonder we find time to get dressed at all 

I just think maybe you are using the same arguments that people who wear cargo shorts and t-shirts use, utility.

But are they stylish? In what colors and patterns? To what?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Bjorn said:


> What with all the sex and looking out for polar bears, it's a wonder we find time to get dressed at all
> 
> I just think maybe you are using the same arguments that people who wear cargo shorts and t-shirts use, utility.
> 
> But are they stylish? In what colors and patterns? To what?


I think some Hawaiian shirts are beautiful and can lend greater elegance to most men in hot, humid weather. To me, the cloth of the last Tori Richard shirt I posted is a beautiful and brilliant design close to art. And while I have fair confidence in my _eye_, I respect the opinion of anyone who does not find it so.

The greater issue is that Hawaiian shirts are part of an American and Pacific sartorial idiom that is largely absent in Europe. I lived in Germany for three yeas in the late '60's and came to learn that in each culture an individual's _eye_ develops and is conditioned by what they grow up with. I.e., two gentlemen, each discerning, from different sartorial backgrounds will actually *experience* the way someone looks in a particular item of apparel differently. That's a rather long-winded way of trying to explain that what looks good in Sweden, or the UK, may not look too good in America, and the opposite. And the same is true all around the world. (But I do like the "all the sex" part!)


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Bjorn said:


> Perhaps sometimes the question is not "is it trad?" but "does it look good?".


They certainly do look to be and are indeed comfortable attire. Given the right setting, casual on a hot, sunny afternoon, I think Hawaiian shirts look pretty darn good...and situationally appropriate!


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

Bjorn said:


> I just think maybe you are using the same arguments that people who wear cargo shorts and t-shirts use, utility.
> 
> But are they stylish? In what colors and patterns? To what?


Bjorn,

From its first appearance in the 1930's, the Aloha shirt has denoted a particular kind of American casual style. Since its early days as resortwear specific to the Hawaiian islands, it has spread widely.

A number of posters here have mentioned that iconic menswear shops such as J Press will carry shirts by Reyn Spooner. On the other hand, I've never heard of Press carrying cargo shorts.

I'd recommend that you take a look at for a history of the company from its inception in the 1950's. They do a better job than I could explaining the significance of the Aloha shirt.

Like suits, there is a wide range of quality available in Aloha shirts, from the cheap to the sublime. Some are very stylish, and very well constructed. Again, I'd recommend Tori Richard and Reyn Spooner. I'm rather fond of Cooke Street, but that's a shirt in a different class, and a story for another post.

I hope that helps. Do people not wear Hawaiian shirts in Sweden? You should add one to your wardrobe, I'm sure you'd get many compliments.


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## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

I do like some in the Kahala line -- the company has been around since the '30s, and most are still made in Hawaii. The rayon feels great in the Texas heat. And I'm a fan of John Severson's surf-based designs for Kahala.

I have several of the Spooners in cotton (with button-down collars!) that are beautifully done as well, and some of their Phil Edwards designs. All of mine, at least, were made in Hawaii.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

I've had a couple of Kahala, nice stuff.

Lately, just between you and me and the fencepost, I've been buying the Cook Street shirts at Costco. They come in two types, one they call a "camp shirt" and is a thicker material.

Just have to pick and choose as far as patterns are concerned.

I had some decent Aloha shirts I bought at the Honolulu "Flea Market", they were new and they were cheap, but they worked out just fine!

Of course they're not as nice as the Reyn Spooners, though one of my attendings mistook one of my cheap shirts for one.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Final shot.

As a shirt, you may love it, or you may hate it, but this cloth is a work of art.








Fortunately, these colors and this pattern would tend to flatter me. I'd wear it with cream colored linen slacks, and of course, tan pennies.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

zzdocxx said:


> Lately, just between you and me and the fencepost, I've been buying the Cook Street shirts at Costco. They come in two types, one they call a "camp shirt" and is a thicker material.


+1 on those Cooke Street shirts, I like the patterns and construction.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes that is the correct spelling, I tend to get mixed up! Plus the Cooke Streets are only about $20. Lol, I have got a whole closet full of them. Well, I have a lot, put it that way, some are on temporary retirement in storage as well.

Nice shirt Flanderian.


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## joeyzaza (Dec 9, 2005)

Scanned through these posts...kind of mixed feelings on this one. Not sure if Harry Truman is the model of trad in a Hawaiian shirt. If you are looking for somehing to wear in the hot weather and you want to look trad, there are better options than a Hawaiian shirt. 

I own a black Tommy Bahama that I bought 7 or 8 years ago for a party when I was in Hawaii. Maybe worn it once or twice since then. I just don't feel right in it.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Here's one I like, from about 1960


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

If anyone's interested, Reyn Spooner has been advertising a sale.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Nice, too bad I'm not sure if I am currently a XL or XXL.

Appreciate the tip!

:thumbs-up:

Hmmm maybe I'll call them up and see how the returns work.

Size guide, seems they're cut on the large side, doesn't it?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Himself said:


> If anyone's interested, Reyn Spooner has been advertising a sale.


And here I just blew my month's allowance on fly-fishing gear! Such is life . . . :icon_headagainstwal


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> I think some Hawaiian shirts are beautiful and can lend greater elegance to most men in hot, humid weather. To me, the cloth of the last Tori Richard shirt I posted is a beautiful and brilliant design close to art. And while I have fair confidence in my _eye_, I respect the opinion of anyone who does not find it so.
> 
> The greater issue is that Hawaiian shirts are part of an American and Pacific sartorial idiom that is largely absent in Europe. I lived in Germany for three yeas in the late '60's and came to learn that in each culture an individual's _eye_ develops and is conditioned by what they grow up with. I.e., two gentlemen, each discerning, from different sartorial backgrounds will actually *experience* the way someone looks in a particular item of apparel differently. That's a rather long-winded way of trying to explain that what looks good in Sweden, or the UK, may not look too good in America, and the opposite. And the same is true all around the world. (But I do like the "all the sex" part!)


True

I do like the variance in pattern and color, and I would probably wear one if I could get away with it. and the ones you've posted look nice.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

If you ever get to SoCal, look me up and we'll go find you a suitable one and you can wear it here, in Honolulu, Bankok, etc.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> If you ever get to SoCal, look me up and we'll go find you a suitable one and you can wear it here, in Honolulu, Bankok, etc.


Will do


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Hey sounds like a good excuse for a meetup and lunch! ! !


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

My last business trip was Norway, don't see SoCal coming up any time soon 

But if it does, sure!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

It is rather a long hop over the pole . . . :biggrin:


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

But you never know! Now that the seed of that idea has been planted in his consciousness, we may expect to see him hear sometime in the next 6 to 9 months.

Back to Reyn Spooner,

OK I'm a size 48 jacket, my chest is about 48 - 49". 

So what size RS shirt would fit me?

An XL perhaps?

In the Cooke Streets, I've bounced between the XL and the XXL.

Hmmm. . .


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## digger21209 (Jul 15, 2009)

As one who wears and loves his Hawaiian shirts in both personal and professional settings....

A few pointers - 
In addition to Reyn Spooner, Tori Richard and Kahala are brands worth watching out for.
For work, I stick to 100% cotton or the bark cloth/spooner cloth, which are a cotton blend.
Don't be afraid of the polyester - it helps them stay crisp in the heat, but softens up just fine.
Special cottons include Egyptian cotton, and cotton lawn (or regency) which have finer/softer hand.
"Original" Hawaiian shirts were tailored bright side in, so you have the reverse print on the outside if you want to go for authenticity.
Also - there are generally 3 styles of these shirts, and they all fit differently
1. Button down/button front - with a box pleat in back
2. Button down/pullover - with a half placket front and box pleat in back
3. Camp shirt - with a single piece flat lying collar, and back darts - usually WITHOUT a front placket where it buttons
4. Straight collar, button front shirt with box pleat or back darts - still usually without a front placket.

All styles of these shirts have a straight hem in the front and back, vs. curved shirttails.
Most have a pocket on the left chest. 
Here's the tricky part - and what sets apart the better shirts - 
The pattern on the pocket should be MATCHED to the pattern on the shirt, so that its virtually invisible.
Even higher quality shirts, especially with larger scenes or patterns, will be matched across the front where the shirt buttons.
IMHO - its a matter of refinement, likely only noticed by those "in the know" - kind of like before you knew there were so many ways to tie a necktie...but once you DID find out, you went with what you found made the best impression.



Oldsarge said:


> Stick to Reyn Spooner and Kamehameha and you'll be tight. Tommy Bahama is okay but only if you can get them seriously marked down.


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## digger21209 (Jul 15, 2009)

You have to check every shirt's measurements if you're buying vintage.

Many sellers on ebay will measure the shirts at the chest, from armpit to armpit.
Those measurements of the same size, same manufacturer (and particularly RS) vary WIDELY (no pun intended) - by as much as 4 inches.
my guess is you will likely be most comfortable in an XL....but you may be a L in some of the rayon campshirts, or even an XXL in some of the straighter cut pullovers.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

digger21209 said:


> As one who wears and loves his Hawaiian shirts in both personal and professional settings....
> 
> A few pointers -
> In addition to Reyn Spooner, Tori Richard and Kahala are brands worth watching out for.
> ...


Very interesting and helpful, thanks.


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

Okay, you guys are really bad for my pocketbook...Now that I've read this thread, I'm thinking about getting a Reyn Spooner shirt, but I agree with ZZDOCXX, they seem to be cut really large. Does anyone here know how they fit? I wear an XL in BB casual, and a 17" neck, so it seems like I need a large. That would be surprising, since I haven't worn a large since I was 17...Aw, heck, I'll just order an XL and see how it fits!

Okay, I've done it. I ordered the New Biscus Fields in navy, and I'll post photos when I get it!


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

msphotog said:


> I'm thinking about getting a Reyn Spooner shirt, but I agree with ZZDOCXX, they seem to be cut really large. Does anyone here know how they fit? I wear an XL in BB casual, and a 17" neck, so it seems like I need a large. That would be surprising, since I haven't worn a large since I was 17...Aw, heck, I'll just order an XL and see how it fits!


The people who think RS "runs large" are probably used to wearing slim-fit or something. They're a typical full-cut shirt. Order your regular size. I wear a large in most shirts, and RS's large fits me fine.


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

Thanks! I was just going with the size chart on their website.


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## dmourati (May 29, 2012)

zzdocxx said:


> But you never know! Now that the seed of that idea has been planted in his consciousness, we may expect to see him hear sometime in the next 6 to 9 months.
> 
> Back to Reyn Spooner,
> 
> ...


I'm same size as you, 49" chest (roughly). I bought my first Reyn Spooner on sale as advertised in this thread in XL. It arrived today and fit perfectly. I'd say the sizes listed in the chart posted above are a bit overstated.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks so much for that.

Now I hope I can decide and order before the sale ends.

But yes I figured the XL would probably be it.


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## randyrobotron (May 31, 2012)

leisureclass said:


> I say they are, but only if worn with a mustache as awesome as the first pic...


I second this.

What do u think of how George Clooney looked in them?


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Looks like they have gone the way of the Belgian loafer... https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303640104577438820299941562.html?mod=e2tw


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

The WSJ is printed in New York. Their views on this subject are irrelevant and immaterial. All commentary made on the Hawaiian shirt must, to be pertinent, originate in coastal California from Santa Barbara to San Diego _or_ in Hawai'i. Accept no substitutes! All others may kneel in reverence and do obeisance to The Word.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

:icon_hailthee:


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