# NBA=Not Basketball Anymore...



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

...Well...another brawl broke out at an NBA game last night...anybody catch this???

First off, I think that Denver was at fault...when you have a 10 FG lead with a minute to go, you dont keep your starters on the floor...that's an insult...but NY deffinately over reacted...

I just started to take an interest in Basketball again this year, and was planning on catching my first game in over 3 years next month when the heat come into Oakland...I really thought the game was starting to take a change for the better, these guys were keeping the off court antics to a minimum, new talent was comming in from Europe, making the game more technical and less of a contest to see whom could hang off the rim the longest and then offer up the best dance presentation after dunking...The uglyness of the Detroit V Indy brawl was fading away, and the legendary Don Nelson was back...yup, I deffinately thought this would be a good year for hoops...but it looks like things will never change, the NBA's glory days are far behind them, and there really appears to be no hope in ever reviving the sport...Well...at least no fans were assaulted this time...It'll be interesting to see if the league brings the hammer down on these thugs on Monday how they react; will they take it like men and admit they were wrong, or will they get up in arms, cry discrimination, threaten leagal action, and play the victim untill all responsibility is taken off them...something tells me it will be the latter...

It's really a shame, I'd be interested in talking to some of the greats from the past (MJ, Magic, Bird, etc...) and see how they feel about these thugs who are ruining the sport that they made great...


----------



## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I've watched more games this season (which still isn't many) and I think the quality of play has improved a little.

But this kind of thing negates what modest gains the league might have achieved with this former fan.

If I want to watch street brawls I'll go back to my old neighborhood and get it for free.


----------



## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

George Karl's bud is Larry Brown and he wanted to teach Isiah Thomas a lesson by keeping his starters in. This is what happens when you disrespect an opponent: You have players who have pride and have their adrenaline pumping. This kind of thing happens once in a while in every era. Remember Kermit Washington and Rudy Tomjanovich in 1977?


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

I never watch the NBA anymore. To me, the college game is much more exciting to watch.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I was never a basketball fan, but then again, it is a rare sport I can actually spectate in any meaningful fashion. However, basketball and baseball are certainly at the bottom of my "to watch" list.

That being said, why do people get bent out of shape when a bit of a donnybrook breaks out at a basketball game? I mean, you have a group of young men with their adrenaline pumping, many of them from rough neighborhoods, and to not start throwing punches when challenged is seen as a sign of weakness. Their entire lives they are pampered and treated differently by teachers, coaches, girls, even cops and other authority figures. If you are NBA material, money, cars, passes to concerts, clubs, etc. start flowing. You begin to believe your own hype at the age of 19.

I am always baffled at this thought that pro-athletes are automatically expected to be positive role models. Gents, these guys did not get their millions for their brains or good manners. All pro-athletes in popular US sports made their millions for their physicality and nothing else.

No, I just do not see where the shock over thrown punches is in US pro sports.


----------



## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

You're a Canadian, Wayfarer. Isn't it a law that you're a boxing ... I mean hockey fan?


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> That being said, why do people get bent out of shape when a bit of a donnybrook breaks out at a basketball game? I mean, you have a group of young men with their adrenaline pumping, many of them from rough neighborhoods, and to not start throwing punches when challenged is seen as a sign of weakness. Their entire lives they are pampered and treated differently by teachers, coaches, girls, even cops and other authority figures. If you are NBA material, money, cars, passes to concerts, clubs, etc. start flowing. You begin to believe your own hype at the age of 19.


You make a good point...but never-the-less...the way I see it is that these men's job is to play basketball...now, say you work in an office, that's your job, say you have a co-worker who grew up in a rough area where being scrappy is a way of life...say one day you and him have a disagreement about somehting, and he just starts throwing fists at you...

...just because these guys have a fantasy job, it's still a job, and there are certain responsibilites that must be attached to it...and regardless of wheather they want the mantle of "role-model" bestowed upon them, the reality is that children look up to these guys, so they should at least pretend to have some couth when out in public...especially when they are at work...

...and yes, it is true that many of these guys are given breaks from the time they are in high school, but there are still a number of them who use the privelaged position for good, the problem is that the bad apples are allowed to publicly spit in the face of the rules, and when called on it, yell, scream, and cry untill the league backs down (a really bad message to send to kids)...


----------



## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

NBA needs more that dress code policy. David Stern is a businessman, and he really needs to define his product (again) to attract the cutomer he wants. NBA has grown mostly internationally, where audieneces are not so sensitive to off court antics. So, NBA was willing to live with decline in viewership domestically - we'll see how long will that last.


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I honestly don't see the big deal. One team was running the score up and a fight broke out. It wasn't a "brawl" by my definition - no one was maimed or killed, or taken away in an ambulance - just some pushing, shoving, and a few sucker punches. Your average bar brawl is much more violent. I'm actually routinely amazed at how such large and athletic men fight like a bunch of girls. One hockey team could probably take on the entire NBA at one time.

I also liked the older days when there were some real "enforcers" on teams like Oakley, Barkley, Mason ... seemed to be a lot less of such foolishness because no one wanted a real fight to start. For all the talk of the modern thuggish NBA I think the so-called "old-timers" would clearly lay the smack down on the "bad boys" in today's league pretty darn fast.

I felt the same when T.O. was terrorizing the Eagles. When a room of 250-300 pound NFL players can't or won't clean T.O.'s clock inside 3 seconds, something is seriously wrong. If a T.O. would have tried that in a 1970s or 1980s Raiders locker room they never would have found the body.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

ksinc said:


> I also liked the older days when there were some real "enforcers" on teams like Oakley, Barkley, Mason ... seemed to be a lot less of such foolishness because no one wanted a real fight to start. For all the talk of the modern thuggish NBA I think the so-called "old-timers" would clearly lay the smack down on the "bad boys" in today's league pretty darn fast.


indeed...but those guys werent punks...that's the difference...

I relate the new blood in the NBA to the suburban "gangstas" that one encounters on a trip to a shopping mall in anytown USA...it's like yeah...okay you have your crew of 10 flashing hard looks at little kids and old people...why dont you try doing that on a street corner in South Philly or East Oakland, or any other part of a major metropolitan city with a rep for raising real tough guys...then let's see how "gangsta" you are...

If the majority of these NBA guys had a run in with a real honest-to-goodness tough guy, they'd keep their tempers in check, I guarantee it...so why cant they do that just as a coutesy to the fans?


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

ksinc said:


> I'm actually routinely amazed at how such large and athletic men fight like a bunch of girls. One hockey team could probably take on the entire NBA at one time.


:icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:

QFT


----------



## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

My feeling is the gap between fans and the players in all pro sports has widened to the point where players don't feel any obligation to those who pay their salaries. 

Eventually fans will weary of cheering for their favorite childish multi-millionaire - and paying through the nose for the privilege.

Maybe.


----------



## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

I've given up on pro bball. I just got tired of crybaby millionaires.

There's no sportsmanship in this league and much better entertainment options for me.

I read about Isaiah Thomas' press conference. He's part of the problem obviously...


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

ksinc said:


> I'm actually routinely amazed at how such large and athletic men fight like a bunch of girls. One hockey team could probably take on the entire NBA at one time.


Actually two former hockey players could take on the entire NBA at one time: Bob Probert and Basil McRae.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Those two might think twice about tangling with Ben Wallace, but I agree that they are a formidable pair.


----------



## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Yes! They nailed them:


----------



## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

Artisan Fan said:


> Yes! They nailed them:


Somehow, my impression is that players really don't care about these sorts of punishments. The money they do not get to collect is marginal (for them), and most don't care about the effect of their absence on the team.

Even a 1 year suspension seems not to be adequate. If I fight at my place of emplyment., I would probably be fired, without a chance of ever being re-hired. If NBA has that sort of policy - that would drop the number of fights.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

The skill level for the best players is really unique. No owner wants to lose the services of his best player that way. They won't allow that to happen.


----------



## Doctor B (Sep 27, 2006)

I look forward to reading similar critiques of the more common fighting that takes place in the NHL, as well as in the NFL and Major League Baseball, among other professional sports.


----------



## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Doctor B said:


> I look forward to reading similar critiques of the more common fighting that takes place in the NHL, as well as in the NFL and Major League Baseball, among other professional sports.


Absolutely! the number of incidents in the NBA is actually quite low. Fighting in the NFL has gone down dramatically however baseball and hockey are infamous for their bench clearing brawls. In the NHL its considered part of the game and fans are usually disappointed when there is no fight. In baseball retaliatory headshots from pithcers is commonplace but for some reason its not covered the same way as with basketball.


----------



## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

In Jimmy Breslin's book about the 1962 Mets (_Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?_) he has something funny to say about bench-clearing brawls.

I can't find my copy so I'll have to paraphrase:

During a bench-clearing brawl with St. Louis, Mets manager Casey Stengel (in his 70s) remained in the dugout. Baseball players fight like girls, and it was bad enough that people called Stengel an old man. He sure as hell wasn't going to be called an old lady.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Doctor B said:


> I look forward to reading similar critiques of the more common fighting that takes place in the NHL, as well as in the NFL and Major League Baseball, among other professional sports.


The critique should be exactly the same as the one I have offered. We have jocks in action, getting worked up. Why are we surprised when punches get thrown? It is still beyond me. Even in a sport that is often seen as "gentlemanly", look at the physicality in road cycling. Every pro-sport, by definition, is populated with the most physically gifted young men able to play it. Such fine physical specimens should be expected to toss the occassional punch in the heat of the moment IMO.


----------



## Smudger (Jun 11, 2005)

*sportsmanship*

There are two contact sports which I enjoy: rugby union football where the raising of a voice to the refs can get you sent off the pitch. Also, lacrosse which is vigorous but not quite as well-controlled by the refs. I have never played shinty, hurling, gaelic football or Aussie football but they seem to be similar. We should boycott these overpaid, semi-literate hooligans and encourage other sports. High schools should be promoting lacrosse instead of football-it is cheaper and safer. Professional sports, especially in the U.S. have gotten out of control. 
Bill


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Smudger said:


> There are two contact sports which I enjoy: rugby union football where the raising of a voice to the refs can get you sent off the pitch. Also, lacrosse which is vigorous but not quite as well-controlled by the refs. I have never played shinty, hurling, gaelic football or Aussie football but they seem to be similar. We should boycott these overpaid, semi-literate hooligans and encourage other sports. *High schools should be promoting lacrosse instead of football-it is cheaper and safer.* Professional sports, especially in the U.S. have gotten out of control.
> Bill


Yes! :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

This thread has inspired my parting shot sports column for 2006. In it I conclude that we get the heroes we deserve.


----------



## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

*Let's not fool ourselves, "fans" love it.*



Wayfarer said:


> I was never a basketball fan, but then again, it is a rare sport I can actually spectate in any meaningful fashion. However, basketball and baseball are certainly at the bottom of my "to watch" list.
> 
> That being said, why do people get bent out of shape when a bit of a donnybrook breaks out at a basketball game? I mean, you have a group of young men with their adrenaline pumping, many of them from rough neighborhoods, and to not start throwing punches when challenged is seen as a sign of weakness. Their entire lives they are pampered and treated differently by teachers, coaches, girls, even cops and other authority figures. If you are NBA material, money, cars, passes to concerts, clubs, etc. start flowing. You begin to believe your own hype at the age of 19.
> 
> ...


+1

Let them beat the **** out of each other! It's worked for Hockey.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

rnoldh said:


> +1
> 
> Let them beat the **** out of each other! It's worked for Hockey.


I think the solution is like what happened in hockey. The fines and suspensions were not enough, criminal charges were laid more than once. Do that to the people in the NBA and I bet you see a change in behavior. Of course, you might get the ACLU, Jesse Jackson, or such riled if that happened. Just my IMO.


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> I think the solution is like what happened in hockey. The fines and suspensions were not enough, criminal charges were laid more than once. Do that to the people in the NBA and I bet you see a change in behavior. Of course, you might get the ACLU, Jesse Jackson, or such riled if that happened. Just my IMO.


Five of the Indiana Pacers were criminally charged for their roles in the Motor City Melee. I don't recall any particular uproar from The Usual Suspects, although the players' union was a bit miffed. Artest eventually pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor battery charge, I believe. The only NHL prosecutions that I am aware of are those involving viscious stick attacks, a la McSorley/Brashear or Ciccarelli/Richardson. I imagine if an NBA player smashed an opponent over the head with a similar improvised weapon in the middle of a game he would also be criminally charged and no particular outrage would ensue. There is a legend from the early '60s of Wilt becoming completely enraged one night - over cheap shots from Walter Dukes, I believe - picking up his team's _bench_, and trying to bludgeon the entire Pistons team with it. Wilt was not criminally charged for this explosion, although he was ejected for it - the only ejection of his storied career.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Well that's the thing with hockey, a weapon is part of the game. 

As I said about basketball, I am not a fan, do not follow it and the events surrounding it. I had no idea there had been a big fight in Pontiac. I was thinking more about that guy that choked his coach...was there charges there and did he not get to return after a time out?


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Latrell Sprewell (spelling?) was suspended almost an entire season without pay for choking his coach.


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Well that's the thing with hockey, a weapon is part of the game.
> 
> As I said about basketball, I am not a fan, do not follow it and the events surrounding it. I had no idea there had been a big fight in Pontiac. I was thinking more about that guy that choked his coach...was there charges there and did he not get to return after a time out?


Spree choking P.J.? Nah, he wasn't criminally charged. He did receive a substantial suspension from the league, however. By far the worst basketball brawl occurred at the college level in the early 1970s: Ohio State at Minnesota, January 1972. The Gophers were loaded, with three future NBA players _and_ Dave Winfield in the lineup. The Buckeyes were pretty good as well, and were leading with a couple of minutes left in the game. It had been a rough game, and Ohio State's center, Luke Witte, was clobbered going to the basket and knocked to the floor. A Minnesota player extended his hand, ostensibly to help Witte to his feet, but as Witte began to rise the Gopher kicked him in the groin and punched him back to the floor. Several other Minnesota players then stomped Witte but good. A very nasty brawl ensued, of a distinctly racial nature, as Minnesota's stars were black and OSU's were white, except for Jim Cleamons. The Minnesota crowd began getting into it as well. Witte was very badly injured and was never really the same player after that, which was too bad as he was something of a poor man's Bill Walton. The incident was quite notorious at the time, although no criminal charges were filed. That's one thing about these NBA brawls: no one ever gets hurt, at least not since Rudy T was almost killed - and that was a fluke. The last person I recall getting hurt in a NBA fracas was Jeff Van Gundy, when he got in the way of Marcus Camby's haymaker intended for Danny Ferry - and who cares if Jeff Van Gundy gets clocked?

And just the other day I watched the infamous brawl between Canada and the USSR in the 1987 World Junior Hockey Championship. Wow. Now that was a _brawl_. There's never been anything like that in _any_ basketball game, anywhere. It makes the Minnesota/OSU dustup look like a pillow fight.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

You sound like quite the b-ball historian and that sounds like a pretty good brawl.

Yup, no fights like hockey fights. I have also quite following hockey for several reasons, not least among them the fact that some of the guys I grew up with that went NHL are now retired millionaires and I am neither. I know next to nothing about this generation, I was of the Bobbie Probert/Ti Domi/Stevie Y generation.

However, hockey is a sport where you might not be that great of a player but could make yourself a commodity due to your ability to fight on ice. Probert and Domi are good examples but the most classic one of all was one before my time, Tiger Williams. 

As I keep saying, I really do not see why people are surprised when pro athletes toss the occasional punch.


----------



## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

I don't people are surprised pro athletes throw punches in the heat of the moment. People have their biases, hence a thread about a basketball brawl while there are no threads or criticism of the many hockey or baseball fights.


----------



## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

First, I must disagree with the premise of the original post. In basketball (esp NBA) 10 points with a minute to go is not insurmountable. In any case, if you (team) don't like it, causing a rumble is still not a valid option.

While a fight of this type (ongoing punching and grappling, multiple cheapshots) is not the worst thing in the world, it is unacceptable. It should be handled as such, and the fines, and more importantly, the suspensions, show that the Commissioner's office is clearly stating that it is unacceptable.

Competitive athletes engaged in a physical game like basketball will over-react from time to time. Those reactions will from time to time be way over the top. That will not stop, but the egregious incidents can be held to a minimum. They are professionals, and must be required to act adults with some restraint. It can happen.


----------



## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> ...Well...another brawl broke out at an NBA game last night...anybody catch this???
> 
> First off, I think that Denver was at fault...when you have a 10 FG lead with a minute to go, you dont keep your starters on the floor...that's an insult...


What's wrong with an insult on the basketball floor?


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Okay, I can understand the rationalle _"It happens in other sports and it isnt a big deal..."_ Sure, I'm not complaining about the occasional fight that may break out in Boxing or UFC....j/k even with Hockey, the fighting is part of the tradition (I mean the sport even has provisions for it written into the rules)...baseball fights...eh...they're usually more like sissy dogpiles on the pitcher's mound...football fights are almost non existant anymore...but basketball is a sport without much history of fighting (or at least that I know of)...I mean, I think if Tiger woods and Davis Love III got into it on the putting green, there'd be a bit of an uproar aswell...fighting is just more tolerable in some sports than others...basketball shouldnt be one of them...these players are by far the most pampered and catered to by the league, they should show some respect for the fans who basically sign the grossly overinflated paychecks that entitle them to this lifestyle which they have become so accustomed...


----------



## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Okay, I can understand the rationalle _"It happens in other sports and it isnt a big deal..."_ Sure, I'm not complaining about the occasional fight that may break out in Boxing or UFC....j/k even with Hockey, the fighting is part of the tradition (I mean the sport even has provisions for it written into the rules)...baseball fights...eh...they're usually more like sissy dogpiles on the pitcher's mound...football fights are almost non existant anymore...but basketball is a sport without much history of fighting (or at least that I know of)...I mean, I think if Tiger woods and Davis Love III got into it on the putting green, there'd be a bit of an uproar aswell...fighting is just more tolerable in some sports than others...basketball shouldnt be one of them...these players are by far the most pampered and catered to by the league, they should show some respect for the fans who basically sign the grossly overinflated paychecks that entitle them to this lifestyle which they have become so accustomed...


Golf isn't a contact sport. Its impossible to eliminate fighting from a contact sport. Singling out Basketball is simply your bias.
I don't think there's a such thing as a grossly inflated paycheck, certainly not in their cases they generate tons of money.


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> However, hockey is a sport where you might not be that great of a player but could make yourself a commodity due to your ability to fight on ice. Probert and Domi are good examples but the most classic one of all was one before my time, Tiger Williams.


Wasn't Tiger known as "The Man Who Could Bite A Wall," because he'd been in so many battles that his snozz was pounded flat against his face? Now _he_ was a thug. However, the NBA has always had room for a similar kind of player, a not-very-talented, but fierce and violent player whose role it is to protect the stars, give a hard foul, and mix it up if the situation requires. They used to be frankly described as "enforcers," but the preferred modern euphemism is "role player." The prototype, I suppose, was "Jungle Jim" Loscutoff, who played for the Celtics back in the Russell era and made sure that no one messed with Russ, Cooz, Tommy, Sam, or the rest of the Celtic stars. Then there was Lucious Jackson, who was actually _Wilt__'_s bodyguard on the great 'Sixer teams of the late '60s; Rick Mahorn and Jeff Ruland of the '80s Bullets (although Ruland was a pretty good player); Kermit Washington, who protected Kareem until "The Punch"; Cliff Ray of the Barry-era Warriors; Michael Cooper and Kurt Rambis of the Showtime Lakers; Marc Ivaronni of the '80s 'Sixers; and Jordan's personal bodyguard, Charles Oakley. The oddest enforcer ever was Calvin Murphy, all 5' 10" of him, who, in addition to being a great player, was an ungodly terror who scared everyone in the league during his playing days. I once saw Calvin go berserk during an _exhibition_ _game_ and take on the entire Cleveland Cavalier starting five: he looked like a wolverine on crack tearing into a pack of Great Danes.


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Lushington said:


> Wasn't Tiger known as "The Man Who Could Bite A Wall," because he'd been in so many battles that his snozz was pounded flat against his face? Now _he_ was a thug. However, the NBA has always had room for a similar kind of player, a not-very-talented, but fierce and violent player whose role it is to protect the stars, give a hard foul, and mix it up if the situation requires. They used to be frankly described as "enforcers," but the preferred modern euphemism is "role player." The prototype, I suppose, was "Jungle Jim" Loscutoff, who played for the Celtics back in the Russell era and made sure that no one messed with Russ, Cooz, Tommy, Sam, or the rest of the Celtic stars. Then there was Luscious Jackson, who was actully _Wilt'_s bodyguard on the great 'Sixer teams of the late '60s; Rick Mahorn and Jeff Ruland of the '80s Bullets (although Ruland was a pretty good player); Kermit Washington, who protected Kareem until "The Punch"; Cliff Ray of the Barry-era Warriors; Michael Cooper and Kurt Rambis of the Showtime Lakers; Marc Ivaronni of the '80s 'Sixers; and Jordan's personal bodyguard, Charles Oakley. The oddest enforcer ever was Calvin Murphy, all 5' 10" of him, who, in addition to being a great player, was an ungodly terror who scared everyone in the league during his playing days. I once saw Calvin go berserk during an _exhibition_ _game_ and take on the entire Cleveland Cavalier starting five: he looked like a wolverine on crack tearing into a pack of Great Danes.


Another player known for commiting hard fouls and provoking fights was Bill Laimbeer. He fought with Bird, Parish and Barkley.


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> Another player known for commiting hard fouls and provoking fights was Bill Laimbeer. He fought with Bird, Parish and Barkley.


Well, Bill was a cheap-shot artist who lost every fight he was ever in, but he did commit hard fouls. He was also a pretty good player, better than most enforcers of the day. And, as it turns out, he's a pretty good coach.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Lushington said:


> The oddest enforcer ever was Calvin Murphy, all 5' 10" of him, who, in addition to being a great player, was an ungodly terror who scared everyone in the league during his playing days. I once saw Calvin go berserk during an _exhibition_ _game_ and take on the entire Cleveland Cavalier starting five: *he looked like a wolverine on crack tearing into a pack of Great Danes.*


Lol, great image.

I'd never heard of that name for Tiger but could see that being the case. I am not much of a sport historian though, I must admit. I usually do a sport and then if/when I quit, it loses it shine for me. While not what I would consider well versed, oddly enough the sport I am most conversant in is road cycling, maybe because it was the last sport I participated in at a respectable level. I can see myself losing touch there too, just like football. I stopped following football when Barry Sanders retired and Chris Speilman was traded. With the retirement of "The Lion King", Mario Cippollini, I am starting to lose interest in road cycling too.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Lushington said:


> Well, Bill was a cheap-shot artist who lost every fight he was ever in, but he did commit hard fouls. He was also a pretty good player, better than most enforcers of the day. And, as it turns out, he's a pretty good coach.


Lambeer used to come by some places I worked at during my undergrad. He was always pretty gracious. I heard he was one of the few NBA players whose father was richer than him. Lambeer packing had a huge depot on Outerdrive, if memory serves. I heard once the company had fallen on hard times though.


----------



## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

Lushington said:


> for Danny Ferry - and who cares if Jeff Van Gundy gets clocked?
> 
> And just the other day I watched the infamous brawl between Canada and the USSR in the 1987 World Junior Hockey Championship. Wow. Now that was a _brawl_. There's never been anything like that in _any_ basketball game, anywhere. It makes the Minnesota/OSU dustup look like a pillow fight.


Yeah, that was a brawl! We need some of this in the NBA!!!

Here's the famous brawl:






They are a bunch of overpaid, immature, arrogant thugs, that play in the NBA, so why not give the fans something they would find interesting!

Who didn't watch highlights of the famous Indiana-Detroit brawl?


----------



## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

rnoldh said:


> Yeah, that was a brawl! We need some of this in the NBA!!!
> 
> Here's the famous brawl:
> 
> ...


How is that exactly?


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

rnoldh said:


> Who didn't watch highlights of the famous Indiana-Detroit brawl?


Me 

But when I get home tonight I will check the link!


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Laxplayer said:


> Another player known for commiting hard fouls and provoking fights was Bill Laimbeer. He fought with Bird, Parish and Barkley.


Laimbeer may have "fought" with them other guys, but Parish simply punched him out! LOL Wasn't the Chief like a 3rd or 4th degree black belt in Kenpo?

One of the finest moments in the history of sports IMHO 

Here's a memory lane for those that want to remember the 'good old days of b-ball' https://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2701111


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

ksinc said:


> Laimbeer may have "fought" with them other guys, but Parish simply punched him out! LOL Wasn't the Chief like a 3rd or 4th degree black belt in Kenpo?
> 
> One of the finest moments in the history of sports IMHO
> 
> Here's a memory lane for those that want to remember the 'good old days of b-ball' https://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2701111


Oh, I never said he won the fight. I said he _provoked_ fights and committed hard fouls. I'm a Celtics fan, I hated Laimbeer.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Didn't Bill have some unflattering nick-name like "The Flopper" or something like that, basically it indicated he would make a big show of getting fouled and hit the floor?


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Didn't Bill have some unflattering nick-name like "The Flopper" or something like that, basically it indicated he would make a big show of getting fouled and hit the floor?


Yes, and he was very good at getting the calls made in his favor.


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> Yes, and he was very good at getting the calls made in his favor.


The pity is that Laimbeer's "bad boy" act has obscured what a good player he was. Bill was a solid defensive center, an excellent rebounder, and a deadly shooter. His range really spread the floor, and this let Isaiah and Dumars penetrate and either score or dish it to the open man. His "most hated player in the league" routine was also a sound strategy, as it took dumb players out of their game and also took some of the officials' heat off the rest of Daly's "bad boys." The Pistons would probably not have won those two titles without Laimbeer. Still, it was always fun to watch him get his butt kicked. Chief really let him have it.


----------

