# Ripped off at Barcelino



## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

Hello,
Just writing to vent about my frustrations with my suit purchase. I read, study and check this forum quite frequently and have tried a variety of suit brands.

All with the intent of leading up to a fantastic suit quality to price ratio purchase. However, I went out last weekend to a Barcelino, somewhat aching to buy or try a suit (never a good idea). I tried a Pal Zileri and a Ravallazo but didn't like the ones they had but did like one the proprietor showed me.

I thought I was buying a quality suit for a good price, I was weak and was sold by the salesman. The suit did look good and I was enamored with the Super 150s. The price on the tag said originally $1600 but sale for $960. I figured its a good deal. I am not educated enough to buy on ehaberdasher or STP and usually figure for the price, I can get a Zegna or Corneliani at Saks for about the same without worrying about fit problems since I get to try them on there.

I discovered after the suit was tailored and everything that it was a really a Gianni Manzoni...sold online retail for about $550.00!! The model I have is the D90002. With tailoring, tax, etc. I paid about $1000+!!



I feel duped by my own stupidity and just disappointed not in the suit as the look is alright but that I paid that much for a "margin builder" suit. I think I read somewhere that these are purchased at about $100-200. Sadly there is nothing I can do about it now. I think I will stick to buying suits from AA recommended establishments and brand names only in the future.

https://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suit14ia.jpghttps://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suit28fv.jpghttps://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=suit57yh.jpg


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

NicoNij:

The first step is admiting a mistake and LEARNING from it is the second.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Like Andy said....and remember, you will probably make more costly mistakes given the opportunity....wear the suit, don't let it sour you, enjoy it..rememer the tailoring may have been close to $100 on a suit you have to bring to a tailor, so add that to the price and you are not that far off....

Oh, and maybe you should talk to the boss, but his retail may have been very fair for retail, with ebay sometimes you just never know.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

it may not hurt to try, but you might want to try printing out that online price and bring it to the store where you purchased the suit and request a price match refund.

I have done the same myself with a digital piano I recently purchased. I bought it thinking I got a good price from the dealer and later when I did more research, I found out through a piano forum I was lead to online advertisements (very hard to find) that the best deals would have saved me $300-400 more.

I went back to the dealer with my case and he presented me a check for $205 after a long 15 minute discussion.
He was very nice and accomodating and for my trouble wanted to give me some more free stuff but I refused and thanked him. I think it also helped that we both spoke Korean as well. also the fact that he verbally told me that his price is best guaranteed (implying to me that he will honor a price match refund if i came across a better deal, of course if I came across it naturally).

Anyways, my lesson is to do my research before going out buying something big. I am very impatient and compulsive when something interests me!


although im not too sure of how relevant the above is to retail merchandise purchases, as pianos are of a different arena where dealing/haggling for best price and price matching is common practice.


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## rssmsvc777 (Jun 20, 2005)

Is "Barcelino" a store in SF ? Don't feel too bad, we all have had this experience. For me , it was with Armani Collezione items.


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## kaiiwa (Oct 15, 2006)

Yeah, don't feel bad it happens to everyone once in a while.


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

Barcelino is a quasi fine men's clothing store in and around the SF/Bay Area/Peninsula. I only know of locations in San Francisco, San Mateo, and San Jose. The only top end suits that I have seen worth mentioning are Belvest and Ravalazzo. However, for the price, I believe there are better options. Merchandise caters to the Mezlan/Moreschi shoe wearing type for a bad generalization - meaning their styles are somewhat gaudy but can have good deals and some good products. Salesman are similar to used car salesman. My thinking in going to a place like this was that I thought lackluster business might lead to bigger discounts on better quality products. I pretty much went to every place possible in the Bay Area: Wilkes Bashford, Neimans, Saks, Patrick James, BB, Polo, Nordstroms, even Barcelino a few times before. Tried on suits at all the places and did find some beautiful suits, however most ones that I did like were around $1500+ so I decided to keep looking. Sadly, went alone on this day and perhaps just felt too eager to finally spend some money on myself after Xmas and New Years. A lesson learned...better earlier than later!


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

The suit did look good and I was enamored with the Super 150s 

I think this is all that matters. It looks good to you. The rest washes out in the wash. Sure maybe it had no hand work or was fased or whatever. You liked the way it looked on you. The zileri didn't look good on you. Is it better to have a well made expensive suit look awful on you or a more mass produced garment look great on you. 

As for the price, everything is a lesson. Everyone would like to undo some purchase or what have you.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

yeah, dont worry about it, NicoNij.

did i ever tell you I bought a Mani suit at full retail price? yeah, everone here knows about it.

The suit jacket ended up being too small, so after a couple of wears to some interviews and a wedding,
I dont wear the jacket anymore so basically, all I have left is a pair of $500 Mani dress odd pants.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

I have to admit I bought a Mani at full retail as a young man. Glue central. Terrible experience.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

yeah at least you wore yours. 
i just have the pants thats it!
$500!!


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

Frankly the suits look good. If they look good on you, you have bought a great suit at a good price. Your next 2 or 3 can be at the $550 rather than the $960 price now that you have tried them on and know what size you wear and how they fit you.

If you liked it better than the Pat Zileri or Ravazzolo (both of which I love) than you got a smokin deal at a price a fair bit below what you would pay for most Zileris and all Ravazzolos.

Barcelino has a number of stores. The main stores carry Ravazzolo, Belvest and one other line and will not have suits much under $2000. The store across from the Hound is the off price store. They do carry the odd Ravazzolo from the main store but mostly special purchase goods that I find a good value if you know what you are looking for. I bought a Marco Azzali there (full canvassed in a tropical weight wool from Gruppo Forall who owns Pat Zileri also). It is a non vented suit that wears very well and was easily worth whatever I paid for it. Which I recall was about what you paid maybe a bit less.

Post up a picture for us with the suit on.

Perry


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

*picture post*

Let me figure out how to do this image hosting thing and I'll post a picture..most likely tomorrow.


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

To add to the other posts, don't feel too bad. I bought 2 Bernini suits in Las Vegas before finding this forum! Luckily for me, the salesman really wanted to sell me a suit(both times, two years apart), so he let me have the $995. suits for $695. The Bernini website is atrocious, like most of their clothes, but the suits I bought are actually very well made. One, a mid gray with ecru stripes is Loro Piana fabric, 3-button, double vent jacket and a black cashmere with a fine herringbone pattern. Both suits are either fully or at least half-canvassed and very well made.
I'll probably never buy another, but until these wear out, I'll enjoy wearing them!

Mark S.


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## comrade (May 26, 2005)

Snobbery can be protective!
Barcelino had a store in the nearby Stanford Shopping
Center for many years. It featured a style which recalled the
clothes worn by "Paulie Walnuts" of the Sopranos.
Moreover, the staff at Barcelino reminded me of
the "students" which held Americans hostage in the
Embassy in Tehran in 1979-80. Needless to say,
I only visited the store during "final clearance


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## taillfuzz (Mar 30, 2004)

Barcellino is a very high pressure store that was called Orpheus many years ago. Seemed like most of the salesmen were from Lebanon and Iran. NM and Wilkes Bashford are much nicer stores; also better overall sales experiences.


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## AMVanquish (May 24, 2005)

Two of their stores that I know of closed recently, in Palo Alto and San Francisco. The one in the South Bay remains, though, and for some reason is very highly ranked in the local weekly paper. I go to that mall frequently, but have never stepped inside(for fear of high pressure sales.)

I did actually step inside the one in Seattle, but was rather unimpressed.


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

*Pictures uploaded*

Pics are dark, so I'll try to get some lighter ones. I know most abhor the 3 button suit, but I wanted something similar this Letterman photo below. Originally I only liked the classic 2 button as well, but I've grown to slowly like the 3 button for business. The White shirt is Faconnable oxford, white collar, blue shirt is Polo, ties both by Barcelino, shoes Santoni Darren (saving up for either C&J Weymouth) or Borgioli wholecut black).

https://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=712653113lt.jpg


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## johnjack11 (Oct 13, 2006)

Do you still like the fit and look of the suit?

It would be worse if you spent $3k on a more expensive "brand" and it fit terribly!

You could always mention your research findings to the owner, and see if he will give you a better deal on your next purchase. He is not likely to discount a suit that he has already sold, but may wish to keep you as a customer....

Jack


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

I haven't spoken with the proprietor yet. I am just bothered by salesman like him. While I do accept responsibility for the purchase, I think one cannot be a naive customer anymore. I think the fit is okay - the fabric doesn't really drape or feel like silk as I would think a super 150s would. For the price, I would have much rather purchased something off of EHaberasher instead. Oh well.


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

*You're ready to step up to online purchasing, and save some money!*



NicoNij said:


> I haven't spoken with the proprietor yet. I am just bothered by salesman like him. While I do accept responsibility for the purchase, I think one cannot be a naive customer anymore. I think the fit is okay - the fabric doesn't really drape or feel like silk as I would think a super 150s would. For the price, I would have much rather purchased something off of EHaberasher instead. Oh well.


You said that you are not educated enough to buy from ehaberdasher or STP. I think you are by now.

And with their return policies, it would not be a high risk purchase!

Wear, enjoy and learn from your Barcelino purchase!

BTW: I don't think you've mentioned your size, or any sizing issues that you have. This forum is a good resource to ask how particular brands are cut. And unless you have extreme sizing issues ( a 12' drop, an XLL length for instance), I think you would do fine online.

Good Luck!


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## Russ (Feb 20, 2006)

AMVanquish said:


> Two of their stores that I know of closed recently, in Palo Alto and San Francisco. The one in the South Bay remains, though, and for some reason is very highly ranked in the local weekly paper. I go to that mall frequently, but have never stepped inside(for fear of high pressure sales.)


Smart move. If you ever do walk into the San Jose store, high pressure sales is exactly what you'll find.


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## english_gent (Dec 28, 2006)

NicoNij said:


> Pics are dark, so I'll try to get some lighter ones. I know most abhor the 3 button suit, but I wanted something similar this Letterman photo below. Originally I only liked the classic 2 button as well, but I've grown to slowly like the 3 button for business. The White shirt is Faconnable oxford, white collar, blue shirt is Polo, ties both by Barcelino, shoes Santoni Darren (saving up for either C&J Weymouth) or Borgioli wholecut black).
> 
> https://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=712653113lt.jpg


i love three button suits .. its the all too common two button i can't stand.

three or one one button is my preference.


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

*Update*

So I had time to talk with the proprietor of the Barcelino on the suit I purchased. He went on to say that the Gianni Manzoni suit I purchased is hand made and canvassed and not fused...any verification on that? Right now I just want a refund on the suit b/c I feel I was ripped off. He went on to state that every product at Barcelino is of high quality and even tried to compare it to Wilkes Bashford. I do understand it is my prerogative to pay for that suit despite it being cheaper online. I also know that items purchased at brick and mortars will cost more, but I honestly believe that his original price of $1485 for this suit is fictitious and that the suit is ＮＯＴ worth $995.00. He said that he can't compare the prices and that he doesn't have a computer and doesn't know how online shopping works

Basically where we stand now is that he offered for me to go in on Saturday to get a trial fit with his tailor. Where he said any adjustment I want can be done to my suit. I said I will be there. But honestly I just want a refund. I was sold a 48 R, where I believe I am a 50 R. He said he can make the 48 R go up 2 sizes. I'm just worried all these alteration will mess it up. He tried to say I'm not a true 50 R (40 U.S.) which was why he gave me smaller size but isn't that why they do alterations?! Do I have any basis for this being that I am unhappy with my suit? The owner is a slick talker and will try to snake out of it. He kept saying that I looked happy originally when I left. Of course I looked happy, I thought I was getting a quality suit - not some mark up margin builder! What is the forums suggested course of action? I should mention that the receipt says no refunds after 7 days and the sale tag says no refunds or exchanges - plus alterations were done。


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

Nothing irritates me more than the store proprietor, not the salesman, trying to weasel his way out like that for a damn sale, because obviously he doesn't want a return. If you do want to return it then do so, and don't ask for a compromise else you want to bang your head against the wall later on if you did. Good luck!


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Acidicboy is right. Return the suit immediately and don't take no for an answer.

This cheesy store should not be mentioned in the same sentence with Wilkes.

P.S. I think you meant Ravazzolo suits unless they are selling a knock-off brand. It's a bit like good audio in that you want to go with a more established brand, excepting small artisan shops.


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## Hennessy (Oct 9, 2006)

NicoNij said:


> So I had time to talk with the proprietor of the Barcelino on the suit I purchased. He went on to say that the Gianni Manzoni suit I purchased is hand made and canvassed and not fused...any verification on that?


Pinch the front and back of the fabric of the lapel or below the bottom button hole pull it apart a bit. Rub it between your fingers. If you can feel a third hidden layer of material hanging loose between the two visible layers, it is canvassed.



NicoNij said:


> I was sold a 48 R, where I believe I am a 50 R. He said he can make the 48 R go up 2 sizes. I'm just worried all these alteration will mess it up. He tried to say I'm not a true 50 R (40 U.S.) which was why he gave me smaller size but isn't that why they do alterations?!。


Measure around the fullest part of your chest under your armpits. The circumference in inches should equal your suit size. Based on the photos you have posted you do not appear to need a larger size. Is it uncomfortably tight in the chest or the shoulders?


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

The chest is a little tight but not unreasonably. Andy's review states the following about Gianni Manzoni lines(

 Superior Italian canvas in jacket fronts
Full canvas chest piece
 Canvas lapel
_C__anvas_ Sleeve head 
 Wrapped horse-tail hair reinforcements
 Bi-stretch woven interlinings
Fine_ all-cotton Italian pant pocketing _
100% Cupra Bemberg Japanese body lining

The suit that I have is suppose to be super 150s by Cessilstrona (anyone know of this quality?). It really doesn't seem Canvassed. I have decided that I want a refund even if it means paying restock fee (which is 20% on $1100!!), if he won't give it to me, I will try to get a discount, closer to what the real value should be. I'd live with the error if I wasn't paying double the retail value. I just don't feel like I am wearing a quality product...plus I'll be grumpy thinking about this snake oil salesman laughing back at Barcelino.

The suits aren't terrible if you pay around $400-600 max. Otherwise I really learned bargain shopping on STP or ehaberdasher is much better. I will let you know how it goes after saturday morning.


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

*no luck*

Went to Barcelino today...and no luck. I told the proprietor that I have no intention to refit the suit and just wanted to return it. He said that he cannot return the suit b/c it was fitted to my body. He then went on and on about how the suit is worth the value and that he knows nothing about online shopping. He even went so far as to guarantee that the suit is worth the $1495 original price and that there is absoluately no fusing in this suit. It was all a complete lie! I was verified by Michelle from vavraitaly that the Gianni Manzoni line is fused and not canvassed. Another forum member said their suits are usually bought around $100-200 wholesale and online prices reflect what should be actual retail prices for the suit. Please check dann-online.com, execstyle.com, vavraitaly.com and suityourself.com. Even for the Super 150s model, $600 maximum price. Certainly not all handstich work as the owner claims. Overall I am just frustrated with the whole Barcelino chain. I got the phone number of Mr. Browning the VP of the company to file a formal complaint. Suprisingly, he was "busy" and still has yet to return my call. 
The Store manager of the Hillsdale, San Mateo store I went to is Jim Bickert, phone number 345-4200. 
I went to the Barcelino in San Jose as well and was greeted by same type of pushy salesman trying to close a deal. One thing I noticed was that the San Jose store lists suits at regular price. The Hillsdale store makes fictitious retail prices and lists the normal price as a sale price. I find this misleading. I hope this store goes out of business soon. I plan to call Browning everyday until I get my money back. I am tired and frustrated with the ordeal.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

There is no doubt that the owner has handled this poorly, he has lost a customer for life. The idea behind a "new customer walks in every day and who cares about the odd lost customer" is antiquated in this day and age and he will surely feel the repercussions of such a business model with time.

His best line of damage control would have been to offer to exchange the suit towards a something a step or two up, which ity sounds like he has or has access to. But it has gone to far for this now.

Get all your documentation together, bullet proof, proving the suit is in fact fused and that Mr. x has mis represented the purchase. Send him a register letter offering him one last chance to right his wrong before you take him to small claims court. Offer to dissect the suit in court to illustrate to the judge exactly what is a fused suit. You may need to buy two total beater 10 dollar jackets on e bay, one fused one not to tear them open for the judge also to spell it clear as day. I think your issue will be resolved before you hit the stand. It will cost you 100.00 to recover your 1000.00

Disclaimer:
I assume that most states have a similar system as ours, a 35 dollar fee to register a claim in small claims court with a ceiling of a few thousand dollars ($7,000.00 here in Quebec) and this is valid option in your state??


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## fashionvictim (Jan 9, 2005)

*How did you pay?*

Did you pay with a credit card? I hope the answer is yes, because if so you can initiate a chargeback. Since you know he's straight out lied to you, you have grounds. If you do that, do the right thing and return the suit to him (once you know you've gotten the credit on your statement).

-- Mike


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

No one has said it so I will, I've always thought Barcelino was a shop with a few nice things and TONS of sloppy rags they peddle to mostly "Babes in the woods" who know little to nothing about decent clothing,....but want a few nice things.

I was thrilled when their Portland, Oregon den went under. (In all fairness I did purchase a couple of pairs of their branded shoe trees for $12.95 a day or two before they closed!) 

I guess the thing that hits a nerve with me is that I truly believe Barcelino, (and a few others) pray on those I consider to be relatively innocent. I used to go by the Barcelino in Portland as it was in an upscale mall downtown and the vast majority of their patrons were either the young 25ish guys wanting to look sharp or the middle aged guys in work clothes who likely owned one suit and a blazer that they've had for fifteen years,....

They end up being "Handled" by the three card monty dealers who call themselves salesman at Barcelino,...and if they ever find out how badly they've been burned, they're turned off to the whole experience.

When I was twenty five and had just begun my first job out of college, General Electric hired me and moved me to Boston and I lived in an apartment in a little town called Tauton. (Not too far from the Alden factory) There was a small men's store called Foster's, "On the Green" in the little town square of Tauton. The owner could have really taken me to the cleaners if he would have wanted to. But he took me under his wing and showed the twenty five year old California boy what to look for in quality clothing. He taught me how to get a good value for what I could afford. I wish I could buy a suit or two from him now,...

Regards,

Bill Woodward
Portland, Oregon


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Artisan Fan said:


> Acidicboy is right. Return the suit immediately and don't take no for an answer.
> 
> This cheesy store should not be mentioned in the same sentence with Wilkes.
> 
> P.S. I think you meant Ravazzolo suits unless they are selling a knock-off brand. It's a bit like good audio in that you want to go with a more established brand, excepting small artisan shops.


Well, they certainly can both be named together as far as crookedness goes. For all the love that Wilkes gets here, nobody ever mentions how he almost went to jail for trying to cheat the city of San Francisco out of rent money. He, and his store, are anything but beyone reproach when it comes to matters of ethics.

Barcelino was an OK store in the 80s. It is an absolutly horrible store now. However, I don't see why you should be entitled to a refund when you bought something that you liked and found out later that it wasn't so great or that it was overpriced. There isn't, as far as I am aware of, a cooling off period on clothing purchases and any court who heard you complain about being told a suit was canvassed when it was really fused would laugh you right on out of there.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

iammatt said:


> Well, they certainly can both be named together as far as crookedness goes. For all the love that Wilkes gets here, nobody ever mentions how he almost went to jail for trying to cheat the city of San Francisco out of rent money. He, and his store, are anything but beyone reproach when it comes to matters of ethics.
> 
> Barcelino was an OK store in the 80s. It is an absolutly horrible store now. However, I don't see why you should be entitled to a refund when you bought something that you liked and found out later that it wasn't so great or that it was overpriced. There isn't, as far as I am aware of, a cooling off period on clothing purchases and any court who heard you complain about being told a suit was canvassed when it was really fused would laugh you right on out of there.


You make a great point,...I don't think he's going to get a refund and I don't think they're going to do any kind of credit or exchange either. What they are offering him is more tailoring. The two worst experiences I've ever had were with a Barney's in New York city years ago trying to cut a pair of pants down four inches,...after the salesman said it would look great, it NEVER did! Our "Ripped off at Barcelino" brethren is most likely going to have to learn to live with his suit.

Unless it feels very bad, it seems to fit and look fine. The "Take away" from this experience for me is: Don't buy from Barcelino. Rather than debate with a salesman or store manager I think it would be great if Barcelino got a few phone calls from individuals who will not buy anything from Barcelino in the future because of their business practices.

Regards,

Bill Woodward
Portland, Oregon

P.S. As mentioned the VP for Barcelino is Mr. Browning and he is in the Bellevue, Washington store at 425-462-2000.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

iammatt said:


> ......There isn't, as far as I am aware of, a cooling off period on clothing purchases and any court who heard you complain about being told a suit was canvassed when it was really fused would laugh you right on out of there.


Generally I agree with you in principal Matt.
However, unless I have misunderstood the time line of the episode, (which is very possible as I read this threads while doing other work 99.5 percent of the time) he was told it was a fully canvassed suit before he bought it, therefore the goods were misrepresented and he should stand a good chance.
If he only questioned this fact after the sale was complete, then he would be sunk I would think.


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

Unfortunately I paid with a Debit card so I have just filed a claim investigation today. The owner did tell me that the suit is entirely done in handwork and there is 100% zero fusing in the suit both before I bought the suit and yesterday when I went to return it. At the time I would have been willing to exchange for something that is actually worth what I paid for it. But now I just no longer want to do business with them anymore. 
I agree that technically I should not be able to return the suit but I feel really cheated in this situation. While previously I would walk away and accept the loss, I would rather exercise all options since I'd be unhappy keeping the suit anyways. I have been participating in this forum for a while prior to my purchase and 127.72 mHz described it accurately when he said that Barcelino preys off people like me. Deceiving people who have moderate knowledge of suits and those that naively believe what sales people tell them. 
I learned a good lesson and strengthened my belief that one always should research their products before buying and to be cynical of salespeople. This however becomes a vicious cycle. The customers will window shop and try numerous products, then go home and research or check out other options. This will frustrate the salespeople and store owners and perhaps will lead some to ignore customers or feel jaded toward "browsing" customers. Certainly not a win win for retailers...maybe customers. 
I work in e-commerce and this whole experience really changed my views on return policies and customer satisfaction. I once read that when you sell a customer a product they like, you have a 50% chance of them returning. Sell them a product they don't like and you have 0% chance of them returning. But handle a bad situation well and they have an 80% of returning. I am ashamed I have become a disgruntled customer. The owner even said I have buyer's remorse...to which I agreed! I was sold a $500 suit for $1100. The problem is not the suit fit/quality. The problem is price I paid is not commensurate with the suit he described prior to my purchase and is not accurate to the actual value.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

NicoNij said:


> ....... I was sold a $500 suit for $1100. The problem is not the suit fit/quality. The problem is price I paid is not commensurate with the suit he described prior to my purchase and is not accurate to the actual value.


We tend to accept more BS from the textile industry than we would from the auto industry or the computer industry and this really must stop. They know most shoppers will just go away quietly.

If you bought a laptop with 200 gig hard drive and 2 gig processor and brought it home to find it only had an 80 gig drive and a 1 gig processor, you would box it up and take it back regardless if you had already run the setup and configured the machine to your liking.

You were lied to by the management when they told you the suit had no fusing, therefore they have misrepresented the goods sold, in my home market area, you would have 30 days from the purchase to pursue them for that offence if the jacket is in fact fused. We have very strong consumer protection laws here, maybe your home state does or does not, but you could find out on the gov. web site quickly I would think.

This is not buyer's remorse in the sense you just changed your mind or decided you no longer liked the cut (for which I would have far less sympathy).
This is buyer's remorse because you discovered the you were defrauded of your money by being sold goods that did not live up to what was promised to you.


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## lawgman (Mar 28, 2005)

NicoNij said:


> He even went so far as to guarantee that the suit is worth the $1495 original price and that there is absoluately no fusing in this suit.


In Canada, mens stores have have been charged with misleading advertising under our version of anti-trust laws where they significantly inflated the regular price of garments that resulted in an overstatement of the savings to consumers when these garments were on sale.

As an idea to conitnue to piss off the retailer, why don't you offer to cut the suit open. Tell him that if there is no fusing, you will gladly walk away but if there is fusing they will need to refund your money. Of course if there is fusing he will refuse but at least you can continue to put up fight and it will re-enforce to him that he can't continue to lie to you.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

NicoNij said:


> Unfortunately I paid with a Debit card so I have just filed a claim investigation today. The owner did tell me that the suit is entirely done in handwork and there is 100% zero fusing in the suit both before I bought the suit and yesterday when I went to return it. At the time I would have been willing to exchange for something that is actually worth what I paid for it. But now I just no longer want to do business with them anymore.


Granted that he said BEFORE you purchased the suit that the it was handmade, canvassed and has zero fusing, maybe you could insist that he put it in writing and claim it otherwise later on.

In any case, this looks like a long drawn out battle. If you have the time and patience to fight it out, I bid you good luck and I wish you "kick his as$" but if you don't and you just put the cost of this experience as a tuition fee in the school of experience, there is no shame in that and I wish you satisfaction on your next purchases.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

just bring Luca Brasi with you. and make him an offer he cannot refuse.

or better yet, call me and if this place is near by i will go and be luca brasi


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

Brian13 said:


> just bring Luca Brasi with you. and make him an offer he cannot refuse.
> 
> or better yet, call me and if this place is near by i will go and be luca brasi


Remember not to place your hand on any table, Brian.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

haha!

if the people at barcelino go to the point of stabbing my hand and wrapping a wire around my neck making my eyes bulge out,
this will more than help the OP case in getting his money back in small claim's court


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## samblau (Apr 2, 2005)

I cannot give legal advice, however their is a concept of an "implied warranty of merchantability" or something to that effect, essentially the canvassing or lack thereof in a suit can be a "hidden defect" if it was represented to be cnavassed and is in fact not under Article 2 of the UCC (uniform Commerical Code) which should apply in CA. There are also some statutes regarding to misrepresenting MSRP. You would need to proove that it is not canvassed or that the price listed was in fact violative, I assume you have a lawyer friend or can find one on the board, maybe have them write a quick letter or write a letter yourself and forward copies with return receipt to the CA attorney general, better business bureau etc. Again, I can't offer legal advice but you may be able to pull some general terms of the web or a CA lawyer can assist you. 
-sam


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Regardless of what this merchant should choose to do at this point, it would seem that a complaint filed with your local Better Business Bureau, might serve to protect future shoppers who are unaware of the questionable sales practices of the merchant in question.In any event, don't give up...that's what they are counting on!


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

I just read this thread and I feel badly about what happened to you. You trusted someone who did not react in kind. I'm a lawyer and want to say for the future that I am not a fan of debit cards. Had you charged the purchase say on Amex you might have disputed the charge claiming that the merchant misrepresented the goods sold. But this is the past. The person who did the wrong is the merchant -- not you. And I am sure you won't make the same mistake again.

My hobby is photography and before I knew of firms like B&H in NYC I bought items like polarizing filters from my local camera store for three times the price of B&H. But once I knew . . .


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## Lino (Apr 15, 2006)

If you used plastic to pay for the suit, check to see if the card company has a buyer protection policy. I think Amex will take back anything a retailer will not.


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## bmoney (Mar 27, 2007)

*interesting*

hi,

It doesn't sound like these guys are going to give you your money back willingly, so I would find an attorney who will write them a demand letter. If you know an attorney, they could write a letter threatening to file a small claim if there is not a refund. This can be done very inexpensively, and might motivate the proprietor to see his options not as give him his money back or lose him as a customer but as give him his money back / have to show up in small claims court w my attorney at $100-300/hr.


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## NicoNij (Nov 13, 2006)

*lastest update*

Here is the latest update. I have gone ahead and filed a credit card claim. My bank requires that I take a third party to verify what I claim about the suit not being hand made. I have taken the suit to a tailor, who opened it and stated that the suit has a floating chest piece but the suit is fused and many restated I was ripped off and decieved. Unfortunately my tailor as well as a few other dealers that sell Manzoni suits do not want to put anything on paper verifying what they said. I understand most people do not want to get tied up legally on this issue. I have even gone as far as calling Alpetora, the company that exports the suits and sadly, they were about as dishonest as the person I bought the suit from. The owner stated that I paid a cheap price ($1200) for my Gianni Manzoni suit and that people in New York sell it for $1800! He then went on to say that all suits are handmade. Obviously he has to protect his customers and most companies don't want to hurt their relationship with the importer.
Sadly, I think this case is going nowhere. Going to a lawyer will be too expensive for me. And my bank will not do anything without a third party documentation. I believe everyone has been tricked one time or another in life, but I did my research and if you call any of the dealers that carry the same suit I purchased, they can verify the product and willing to provide a phone to talk with. Isn't it the credit card companies job to do the research?? If I bought a car or a computer and was told different specs than how it is actually made, this is easy to get a hold of the actual production details. Why is it so difficult to get this is the garment industry? I shouldn't be so upset over something like this but it is very frustrating to be right and have it go nowhere.


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## ice (Sep 2, 2005)

*You have taken the wrong approach*

Why do you buy suits?

Is it:

1. To dress well and look good.

2. As some sort of shopping game, to get the most possible suit for the least amount of money.

Too many people in this forum fall under #2. They search out the highest quality brands, carefully evaluating things like the number of working buttonholes and the number of hand stitches in the shoulder. They buy them on ebay and from clearance stores, and cheerfully tally up how much money they have "saved" over the Saks MSRP.

I have a feeling if you saw these people in the streets, they wouldn't be particularly well dressed. They aren't buying clothes that necessarily suit them, that look good on them, that build up a complete wardrobe, or even clothes that fit them. They are buying based on some numeric formula where they get the most paper value for the least amount of money. Its a game for them, that has nothing to do with actually wearing the mountains of clothes they buy.

Please, make #1 your reason for clothes shopping.

Your clothes need to look good on you. And that suit you bought, as much as I can tell from your pictures, looks good on you. Fused chestpieces aren't as bad as some people say, they don't fall apart after a few wearings. No one is going to peer at your shoulders to see if they are hand stitched. The material seems very nice. It fits you well enough.

I do see a few areas where some tailoring would have helped, and this is where you missed an opportunity. The store manager offered to have the suit perfectly tailored to you at no cost, and you should have taken him up on this. A perfectly tailored off-the-rack suit can look terrific, similar to a custom suit if you don't get too close. A good tailor can work magic. It would also have been an excellent learning opportunity for you, seeing a suit go from an awkward fit off-the-rack to a good fit after extensive tailoring.

This is a lesson you need to learn: There is nothing wrong with paying full price for something if it is exactly what you want. Because in the end, if you get what you want, you are the winner.

Remember there is no guarantee you would have got this suit for cheaper online. Online discount vendors often offer product that doesn't sell well in the regular stores, and usually for a reason. Your suit may indeed have been better quality, or a more desireable cut and fabric, than you could have got online.

I think the only reason you are unhappy with it is because you went home and looked it up on the internet and saw it was available cheaper online. I don't think you are actually unhappy with the suit at all, just the perceived value. You are paying attention to the wrong thing. The suit is the thing, and the price isn't so terrible for a quality suit. Well, it is kind of high, you did pay too much. But not enough for the amount of anguish you have caused yourself.

Go to the store manager, and accept his offer of a complete fitting and tailoring, at no charge. Then be happy that you have a good fitting, decent quality suit that looks great on you. And learn from your experience.


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## ykurtz (Mar 7, 2007)

ice said:


> I think the only reason you are unhappy with it is because you went home and looked it up on the internet and saw it was available cheaper online. I don't think you are actually unhappy with the suit at all, just the perceived value. You are paying attention to the wrong thing. The suit is the thing, and the price isn't so terrible for a quality suit. Well, it is kind of high, you did pay too much. But not enough for the amount of anguish you have caused yourself.


Excellent advice. While I hate to see anyone get taken, what it does is make you a smarter and tougher buyer down the road. The quality of your future purchases and the money you'll save by learning stuff from this site and other sites like it will more than make up for the money you lost in this one transaction. I assume you'll buy more apparel down the road and you'll quickly make it all back and then some. And, more importantly, end up with high quality clothes to boot.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

amen , amen brother.


just chalk this one up. hey, i bought my mani at full price thinking it was good until later i found out i could have gotten it cheaper. oh well. 
i dont buy mani at full price anymore.


like rocky balboa said:
"it's not how hard you hit, it's taking the hits and keep getting up. that's what winners do!!!!!!"


see that movie. i love that movie. that speech to his son in the street was powerful.


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

ice said:


> Why do you buy suits?
> 
> Is it:
> 
> ...


Your response really resonated with me. As I need to rebuild my wardrobe I've been shopping around at full price stores like SFA and NM and discount places like Marshall's, Syms and Filene's Basement.

What I have noticed is that that very few of customers at the discount stores are imo well dressed -- even considering that one does not dress to the nines to go shopping at Marshall's etc. And many have that look in their eye like a hunter looking for game as if they needed the game to survive.

I agree that the goal isn't a good bargain or to get well made clothes at a good value. The goal is to look good and this to me means wearing flattering clothes. They should fit well and look nice. Of course cloth and construction matter. And price certainly matters. But I also wonder just how many people at Marshall's are there for the hunt and not because they need clothes for the kids or for themselves.


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

If your bank wants a letter from a tailor I would try again to get one. I would suggest that you ask a tailor to describe what the suit is without reference to what you were told. In other words the tailor could say that he inspected the garment and it is fused and machine made. You would then explain what you were told. This might make the tailor more comfortable. Lots of tailors out there. 

And this really seems to bother you so I wouldn't give up.

Best of luck!


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

I think you would be better off to stop demaining yourself and the suit you bought. When you started off this thread, you liked the way the suit fit and your chief (perhaps only) complaint was that you felt you paid too much for it. By your last posting, you had talked yourself into disliking the suit, feeling it was the wrong size, you were misled in the fit, etc. Look at what you've done. It seems to me if you can't afford to live with the buyer's remorse you're suffering, you should buy all your suits from the $200 rack.


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