# J Press X Daniel Cremieux



## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

I figure it's only a matter of time before this topic is started, so why don't I kick it off?

Thoughts about the new J Press X Daniel Cremieux collection?

I think the jackets are... interesting. Maybe the blue jersey blazer is a good choice?

Thoughts?


----------



## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

The DB gingham "opera blazer" is kinda kool. You could wear it to a summer stock production with your Indy boots and a pair of critter pants.


----------



## CLTesquire (Jul 23, 2010)

the polos are ridiculous

I think the blue blazer looks nice and the pants, the non-side tab ones, look pretty nice to me (although they appear to be a bit ambitiously priced)


----------



## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

Speaking of ambitiously priced, the Yale hoodies in their new "Yale Line" are a bit steep. The "Y" pants are cool, but not $140 cool...


----------



## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

In France, Cremieux is a third-rate Ralph imitation. In the US, it's sold at Dillards.


----------



## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

If I had gone to Yale, I'd like the Yale stuff.

As for the Cremieux... The jackets are decent but the logos are gauche and turn me off, entirely.

First Urban, now this? Wait for J^2: CrewxPress Spring 2012.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

The thing is that Cremieux isn't some sort of hip, young and edgy brand.

It's a small step up from Nautica and Chaps, exclusive to a middle of the road, midwestern dept. store.

This is like a J.Press X MAcy's Club Room line.


less


----------



## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

AdamsSutherland said:


> If I had gone to Yale, I'd like the Yale stuff.
> 
> As for the Cremieux... The jackets are decent but the logos are gauche and turn me off, entirely.
> 
> First Urban, now this? Wait for J^2: CrewxPress Spring 2012.


LOL! :icon_jokercolor:


----------



## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

This collaboration baffles me. I think some of it is nice, but it's way overpriced. And much of it is ruined by logos. A "jersey blazer" for $295? I have something similar from Rugby, and you can be darn sure I didn't pay anywhere near that.

I agree that the Yale stuff looks cool, though it too is overpriced. The sweaters are made in China; $200+ for them seems a bit steep.

In general, the prices at Press this season seem steep: I love this gingham sack Press is offering, but $495 for a light cotton jacket?

https://jpressonline.com/sportcoats_pressclusive_detail.php?id=J21852S


----------



## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

I like the gingham sack as well but not at that price.


----------



## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Until I saw this, I seriously thought Daniel Cremieux was just a Dillards store brand. Next thing you know, Zegna is going to be doing collabs with Tasso Elba.


----------



## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

JakeLA said:


> In France, Cremieux is a third-rate Ralph imitation. In the US, it's sold at Dillards.


Have you ever looked at some of his jackets at Dillards? They're actually not bad. He lines the back of the collars with rep stripe material almost like a tie. He has very nice attention to details.


----------



## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

The J. Press/Cremieux collaboration makes perfect sense to me, especially if it were in some way mediated by Dillards. Over the years, at least in the San Antonio market, the DDS Mens Clothing departments have shown obvious influence from the likes of Press and the old Brooks Brothers: Corbin flat-front pants, Gitman shirts, Naturalaire 3/2 suits and jackets (MTM), and a host of similar house-brand items, to name a few. The tie department at my Dillards has a better selection of stripes, emblematics, and foulards than the local Brooks. Cremieux's products act as a less-conservative, more-casual (and mostly better-selling) compliment to these Trad staples. Keep in mind that Dillards is by no means J. Press-by-The-Alamo. You have to pick and choose there to assemble Trad items. But the fact that these items are available at all to any San Antonian who wants to stop by and pick them up - 1700 miles from New Haven or San Francisco, or as far as you can get from a Trad hotbed and still be in the continental US - seems significant here.

In my mind, at least, I see one or more buyers at DDS having studied places like Brooks, Press, O'Connell's and Cable Car Clothiers to get at the essence of traditional conservative menswear. Indeed, they reached that essence in a meaningful way. And I think the folks at Press studied Dillards back to see how someone could successfully sell stodgy old (and authentic!) Trad rags to the masses far away from the coasts. Cremieux at Press could be the beginning of a beautiful relationship between Press and Dillards Department Stores: I'd love someday to drive down to the Dillards at Ingram Park Mall to pick up a Press 3/2 blazer. And I wouldn't mind picking up that Cremieux linen blazer and those beige tab-waist pants at Press, either!


----------



## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

I looked at the Cremieux stuff at Dillard's website and it's all disgusting, tasteless crap.


----------



## Preacher (Jul 5, 2008)

JakeLA said:


> I looked at the Cremieux stuff at Dillard's website and it's all disgusting, tasteless crap.


That's a bit of a broad brush you are using. I have lots of DC stuff that is neither disgusting nor tasteless. Their cotton long sleeve polo shirts are some of the nicest casual shirts I have. When you factor in the quality with the deep discounts that can be had at dillards for the change of seasons the DC clothing represents a remarkable value. I also have several pair of dress slacks that I bought for a song that are higher quality than the HSM equivalent slacks that Dillards carries. In fairness to your comment, most DC stuff is NOT viewable online.


----------



## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

I visited my Dillard's a couple of hours ago and spotted a Daniel Cremieux jacket that looked almost exactly like this one:

https://jpressonline.com/daniel_cremieux_jackets_detail.php?id=E1RCJA02_S

It was a dark blue cotton/linen blend of light (but not the lightest) weight with a pre-washed finish, 4 overlapping dark plastic buttons at each sleeve, one patch pocket at the chest and one at each side (no flaps), darts, side vents, and a 3/2 configuration. No real lining, but well finished - nice attention to detail. No padding at the shoulders. Sizes S-M-L-XL. The XL fit like a slightly tight and slightly short contemporary Brooks 3/2 sack blazer in size 46R. It felt almost a full size down from an O'Connell's blazer in 46R. Shoulders, back and length of sleeve were perfect on me, vents and gorge showed a little tightness. All I have to do is lose 10 lbs. for a perfect fit! The jacket is well-thought-out in terms of fit and appearance. It doesn't have the odd proportions or show the obvious shortcuts that you would expect to find in an inexpensive jacket. I don't like to wear darts, but in this jacket's case I'd make an exception. My Dillard's has the jacket in dark blue (not quite navy) and stone. Regular price $150.00. Good pricing for a jacket of this quality that would encounter frequent use in the spring and summer months.

Press shows their version of this Cremieux jacket in numerical sizes. Aside from this, I'm interested in learning exactly how the Press jacket differs from the Dillard's jacket.


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Perhaps Daniel Cremieux is trying to update their image? Their choice of Dillard's as exclusive U.S. retailer was not necessarily the best one for presenting an up-market image...

Are they even especially French? I know that some of their ties used to be made in France, but am not certain if that's still the case... Anyone here buy things from Daniel Cremieux in the 70s or 80s? Was it the same sort of outfit?

I wonder how much input the U.S. J. Press folks had in this decision? Maybe they were simply handed the line by their friendly overlords over at Onward Kashiyama? :icon_smile:


----------



## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

^I think you're right about the Japanese decision to engage in this collaboration, Katon. The Yale stuff was definitely a Japanese decision: the clothing is made in China and bears the Japanese J. Press labels. Apparently that sort of thing sells like hotcakes in Japan, since the Japanese don't have any problem wearing clothing associated with an American university of which they are not alums. I would imagine the Americans at J. Press are less than scintillated by these collaborations, but they have to do what Onward Kashiyama wants...


----------



## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I've followed the threads. I've looked at the goods. I do not get it at all. Daniel Cremieux has absolutely no chaché at all. It is every bit the type of clothing you'd find at Dillard's or Macy's or one of those other stores that puts out generic clothing by the ton with either made-up or re-purposed brands.

If there's one thing I've learned from following these forums is that clothing should be exciting, even here in the trad world where we don't like the flashy stuff. There are authentic, high-quality, and often pricey iterations of every garment and for the budget conscience there're brands like Land's End, L.L. Bean, and thrifting.


----------



## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

I also don't see the point of this collaboration at all. The best I can think of for a rationale is that OK do a lot of third-party manufacturing for 'designer' brands. They must have got a contract to stitch up some stuff for DC and this was part of the deal...


----------



## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

bd79

Thanks for sharing the information about Dillards. I would never have considered them an option in my clothing search. I may need to check out Dillards in the DFW area.


----------



## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

katon said:


> [. . . ] I wonder how much input the U.S. J. Press folks had in this decision? Maybe they were simply handed the line by their friendly overlords over at Onward Kashiyama? :icon_smile:


Excellent questions!

Doesn't Onward Kashiyama place J. Press boutiques in the large department stores over in Japan? I wonder if they believe that Dillard's - the store that practically invented the single-brand boutique-style format for North American department stores - could be ready someday, in at least some markets, to host a J. Press boutique? That boutique might sell nice dark blue linen/cotton jackets, not labeled as Daniel Cremieux at $150, but as J. Press at $495. We know this assumes lots of optimism about how our economy will fare in the next couple of years and about the general public's knowledge of and interest in J. Press. But maybe OK and DDS know something we don't.

Cowtown - you're welcome! Good hunting!


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Some of the items don't look too bad. The polos are horrible. The collaboration looks better than a lot of the new stuff that BB is doing, but that's a low low bar.


----------



## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Someone please explain to me the logic of this collaboration. I understand, the Brooks Brothers collaborations even if I don't agree with them and most of them are with other iconic American Brands, they are just trying to stay relevant to a younger demographic. But JPress baffles me, this is a small company, that must have minimal overahead, considering that stock is limited to what's in the stores (obviously no warehousing or distribution overhead). They are not relevant to anyone outside of people like us, and if they are trying to become relevant, why would you chose Daniel Crimeaux? Most Americans have never heard of the brand, it's not iconic, it's not American. Why piss of the people that keep your small operation of 4 stores running by bringing in crap they don't want, that also isn't going to attract anyone new. I just can't imagine the kiddies saying, "oh man, did you know that JPress has Daniel Crimeux?", quickly followed by "who's JPress?", and "who's Daniel Crimeaux"


----------



## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

^I suppose the "logic" of this collaboration, such as it is, can only be chalked up to the Japanese owners of J. Press. As Alden Pyle (I believe) and others have mentioned, J. Press is a very different sort of operation in Japan. The Japanese version puts logos on lots of stuff, sells women's wear and children's clothing, &c. It is far less true to J. Press' origins than the American version.

At times, it seems as if the Japanese owners don't understand the American market very much, and assume it's somewhat similar to the Japanese market. For instance, the Yale stuff sells like hotcakes in Japan, because no one cares if a non-alum wears Yale stuff. The Japanese appear to have assumed that these items would have a great deal of appeal in the US, when in reality they'd only appeal to alums. It's hard to imagine the New Haven Press store selling lots of $200+ made-in-China Yale sweaters, when one can get much cheaper sweaters elsewhere in the city.

My guess is that, for some reason, the Crimeux collaboration didn't seem as bizarre to the Japanese owners. Given the prices, I don't think the stuff will sell very well in the US.


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Sir Cingle said:


> ^I suppose the "logic" of this collaboration, such as it is, can only be chalked up to the Japanese owners of J. Press. As Alden Pyle (I believe) and others have mentioned, J. Press is a very different sort of operation in Japan. The Japanese version puts logos on lots of stuff, sells women's wear and children's clothing, &c. It is far less true to J. Press' origins than the American version.
> 
> At times, it seems as if the Japanese owners don't understand the American market very much, and assume it's somewhat similar to the Japanese market. For instance, the Yale stuff sells like hotcakes in Japan, because no one cares if a non-alum wears Yale stuff. The Japanese appear to have assumed that these items would have a great deal of appeal in the US, when in reality they'd only appeal to alums. It's hard to imagine the New Haven Press store selling lots of $200+ made-in-China Yale sweaters, when one can get much cheaper sweaters elsewhere in the city.
> 
> My guess is that, for some reason, the Crimeux collaboration didn't seem as bizarre to the Japanese owners. Given the prices, I don't think the stuff will sell very well in the US.


One of the things about the Japanese J. Press is that the quality often seems suspect (especially since the pricing is similar to USA Press and above, now that the yen is so strong). Made in China and, often kind of tatty fabric. I am not really familiar w/ Crimeux but from what people have been saying it would fit in well there and might be a step up. [Another thing about Japan is that the downtown department stores where J.Press is sold are really dying as people shift to discount outlets. I wonder how J.Press Japan is actually doing {Also wonder how PressUSA is doing in the recession}]. It wouldn't at all surprise me if this collaboration isn't mostly about selling in Japan.

SirCingle would know better than me, but I would guess the Yale stuff is mostly about driving youth (& game day Saturday) traffic to the New Haven store.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

AdamsSutherland said:


> If I had gone to Yale, I'd like the Yale stuff.


AS, I doubt it. I appreciate the joke, the idea of selling Yale logoed stuff to the general public is ludicrous, and says all that needs to be said about this "designer," but, at least to me, advertising that one attended a prestigious college is distasteful, even if one actually did go there. Exceptions may be made for the odd, aged t shirt or sweatshirt, perhaps for the semi-obscure college tie, and things of that nature, but beyond that, (again, to me), it's bragging. :drunken_smilie:


----------



## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

^I think I largely agree with you here, Rambler. I own a couple of ties from an alma mater, along with a sweatshirt and a few shirts I wear to the gym. To be honest, I don't wear my school ties very much; though I'm sure it doesn't bother anyone else, I feel a bit like a braggart.

There are, however, surely some appropriate times to wear such gear: big sports games featuring your school; alumni events; reunions; &c.

But, hey: I live in New Haven, and I'm constantly surrounded by Yale gear. It doesn't trouble me at all. If only the undergrads would up their wardrobe to the level of emblematic Yale chinos...


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Yeah, that stuff is ok for freshmen, and sports fans. A guy in the Duke bookstore told me that they make a bazillion a year selling stuff to bball fans.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Thank God Almighty I am free of the angst of having attended an Ivy League school!!


----------



## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

I still think Cremieux at Press is about Onward Kashiyama trying to hook up with a larger distribution channel in the US. . . like Dillard's. OK must drool over the turnaround Claudio del Vecchio performed at Brooks. (Brooks already had a large distribution channel in place here when del Vecchio bought it.) But they must also see how the Brooks product had to change with the times, how far away it has moved from the likes of must-iron OCBDs, 3/2 suits, and emblematic ties. Could J. Press do this and survive?


----------



## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

bd79cc said:


> But they must also see how the Brooks product had to change with the times, how far away it has moved from the likes of must-iron OCBDs, 3/2 suits, and emblematic ties. Could J. Press do this and survive?


This is an interesting question and one that was likely put to the test in the capsule collection for Urban Outfitters. It's a measure of the brand's cultural currency that people want to wear the brand but not the clothes. I think that this is what happened with Brooks Brothers. While they, Brooks Brothers, appear to the stalwart class to have pushed the envelope clear off the table and into the wastepaper basket, I can only imagine the rejoicing of the Invisible American Potato that can finally wear Brooks Brothers without appearing so stuffy. Those same tubers are probably salivating for a Kenneth Cole collaboration on some rubber soled slip-on dress shoes.

Similarly there is an ever-present drone of lip service paid to Press in many fashion blogs whose authors and readership would shudder at the idea of a garment roomy enough to tie their shoes without straining a seam or two. These people are probably the ones that rejoiced in the prospect of snug fitting shaggy dogs and blazers cut for toddlers.

I would argue that, at least as far as the "rebirth" of American Style stretches out before us, the collaboration with UO or similar stores can probably turn a profit and capture a fashion headline, but the idea of diffusing Press to department stores would fall flat since that audience has no natural enthusiasm for the brand and would likely view it as one more name on a tag in the shoulder-shrugging expanse of anchor store menswear departments. They'd wait for it to be marked down and wonder why the lapels were all weird.


----------



## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

bd79cc;1191750 But they must also see how the Brooks product had to change with the times said:


> I wonder if Brooks really needed to change with the times or if it was a decision made by their marketing people. I wonder what would have happened if BB expanded the number of stores but continued to stock the 3/2s, must irons, etc. Would customers have stayed away because of the perceived "stodgy" look or would mall shoppers walk by, see a BB store and decide to pick up a suit, shirt, or tie based upon familarity with the brand. It seems that the marketing folks believed the former.


----------



## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Cowtown said:


> I wonder if Brooks really needed to change with the times or if it was a decision made by their marketing people. I wonder what would have happened if BB expanded the number of stores but continued to stock the 3/2s, must irons, etc. Would customers have stayed away because of the perceived "stodgy" look or would mall shoppers walk by, see a BB store and decide to pick up a suit, shirt, or tie based upon familarity with the brand. It seems that the marketing folks believed the former.


Growing workplace casualness and BB's quality decline in the Marks & Spencer era were the twin bullets that killed off a ton of BB's former clientele. If they still needed tailored clothing, they went elsewhere. Some have come back since quality has begun to improve, but many haven't. Maybe most.

So yes, if BB was going to remain viable, it had to start trying to appeal to a new customer base: People who had never shopped at BB but would come for a "standout" product like the industry's best-performing non-iron shirts, or a younger demographic of Gen-Xers and millennials who had no history with the brand and would only come if the image and the product appealed to their tastes. Either way, you're dealing with people who, by and large, have no history with the TNSIL look and wouldn't be attracted if Brooks kept on selling mostly 3/2 sacks and regular OCBDs.

To Brooks' credit, they haven't gone the full Abercrombie and sold out to the point where there's no continuity with what they once were. Take a look at the catalogs and marketing materials they've put out in the last four or five years: it's full of appeals to Brooks' history and traditions. Is that a business-driven strategy? Sure. But IMO it's both a necessary and a commendable one.


----------



## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

My hunch was that the American version of J. Press in the past didn't need to generate that much of a profit for OK. It merely solidified the heritage of the brand for the Japanese consumers, and the Japanese J. Press made the money. But now Alden Pyle suggests that J. Press may not be doing too well in Japan. Perhaps this is why OK has attempted to push the American J. Press in different directions--in hopes that the American version will now make money.

This may be cause for serious concern. If OK is attempting to turn the American J. Press into the Japanese J. Press, it may abandon the traditionalism and quality we like. But perhaps one ought not to get alarmed. As it stands now, J. Press still offers the traditional stuff, with some newer things on the side. A rise in the latter doesn't necessarily entail a decline in the former.

For what it's worth, Alden Pyle, my salesman at Press told me that the Yale gear was selling best in the New York store, not the New Haven one. And this makes sense to me: In New Haven, folks have lots of stores to choose from when buying Yale clothing. You can get a Yale letter sweater from the Yale Bookstore for under $100. Why buy a Press one (made in China) for $230?


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Sir Cingle said:


> My hunch was that the American version of J. Press in the past didn't need to generate that much of a profit for OK. It merely solidified the heritage of the brand for the Japanese consumers, and the Japanese J. Press made the money.


I honestly don't think this has been much of a factor for a long time. I don't think the existence or lack of existence of J. Press stores in the US would have any effect on Japanese sales. If Daniel Cremieux ended sales in France, would that have any effect on the sales in Dillards? Is Daniel Cremieux even a real brand in France? Who knows. I guess J.Press makes reasonable returns in the US but with growth rates that wouldn't be very attractive to a lot of American companies. OK tolerates that because in general Japanese companies except low returns and low growth much more so than corporate America. Super low interest rates and limited hostile takeovers have a lot to do with that, I guess.



Sir Cingle said:


> But now Alden Pyle suggests that J. Press may not be doing too well in Japan. Perhaps this is why OK has attempted to push the American J. Press in different directions--in hopes that the American version will now make money.


That was just a guess. I took a look at OK's annual reports. During 2005-2008, OK was making ROE's of about 5% on very slow growth, bad by American standards, maybe typical by Japanese. But they really got clobbered the last few years, sales in 2010 were off by maybe 20% from the peak and ROE at 1% in 2010 (after a giant loss in 2009).



Sir Cingle said:


> This may be cause for serious concern. If OK is attempting to turn the American J. Press into the Japanese J. Press, it may abandon the traditionalism and quality we like. But perhaps one ought not to get alarmed. As it stands now, J. Press still offers the traditional stuff, with some newer things on the side. A rise in the latter doesn't necessarily entail a decline in the former.


I don't see much likelihood of American J.Press turning into Japanese J.Press. That market seems very limited. I am sure they would prefer to somehow leverage the J.Press brand into something like JAB or J.Crew, but thats easier said than done, especially by a company like OK which has little experience in the American market. Bigger risk from the trad perspective, is that A) OK sells the US brand to an American conglomerate that wants to invest in expansion (their annual report says they are looking to concentrate on core brands and it would be just like a Japanese company to sell a profitable overseas subsidiary to concentrate on making losses at home) ; or B) they just go out of business.



Sir Cingle said:


> For what it's worth, Alden Pyle, my salesman at Press told me that the Yale gear was selling best in the New York store, not the New Haven one. And this makes sense to me: In New Haven, folks have lots of stores to choose from when buying Yale clothing. You can get a Yale letter sweater from the Yale Bookstore for under $100. Why buy a Press one (made in China) for $230?


Interesting. Just shows how little I know.


----------



## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

^Thanks, Alden Pyle, for such a thoughtful response. I see what you mean in regard to the (un)importance of an American Press for the Japanese one. Still, a gander at the Japanese Press Web site demonstrates that it plays up the brand's American heritage to a great extent. Here, for example, is the page on the J. Press "story":



I doubt Dillards makes as much of the French heritage--such as it may be--of Daniel Cremieux. Again, your point is well taken, but, with at least an erstwhile Japanese obsession with Ivy style, perhaps Press' heritage is more important than you suggest. Then again, maybe not.

You bring up two possible doomsday scenarios: OK sells Press; OK goes out of business. Let's hope neither happens!


----------



## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Did anyone else notice "Mexico" on that map?


----------



## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Sir Cingle - the Cremieux boutiques at the local Dillard's locations seem to use the same design cues found in both the interior and exterior of J. Alden Clothiers over in Essex (). Dillard's has had the Cremieux line and that look for their boutiques for a long time. My best guess: the common design cues come from yet another source, hardly French.

Trip - the funny thing about that map is, we _were_ Mexico until about 1836 or so. . . .


----------

