# Back in THE DAY. Why?



## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Me, from another currently running thread...



> ... I'm actually more interested in the phrase back in the day used by the OP, have heard it used unendingly for the past ten years, understand the context, but don't at all get the precision; what exactly is t*he day*?


And Mad Hatter wrote:



> Heyday.


Really? But I'm not getting it. Abbreviations are linguistic pedals to the medal; they're supposed to speed things up. But _the day_ takes the same amount of time to write or say as _heyday_. Besides _heyday_ rhymes with itself. Smooth.

And why is it we say _gas_ for _gasoline _but not _vas_ for _vasoline_. Why is _trou_ for _trouser_ used only in the phrase _drop trou_, but never when buying or wearing them? Why is it we say _phone_ for _telephone_, but not _vision _for _television_? And why has _computer_ never been shortened to anything while_ package_, a measley two syllables, becomes a _pack_ when it holds my smokes, but only then because the mail person does not deliver stuff in _packs_ (tho my previous one did, but only because he rode a mule).

In younger days a pizza was a pizza pie, a limo was a limousine and a deli was a delicatessen. I think the last two shorties have ruined two very beautiful French-derived words and believe a person who calls a limousine a limo deserves never to ride in one. Though I should be allowed to slobber through a pizza without saying pie.

Businesses abbreviate themselves too, sometimes into nothingness. The Columbia Broadcasting System, better known as CBS, legally changed its name to its initials 20 years ago, making the letters CBS officially stand for nothing. Esso, the country's best known brand of gasoline and a phonetic spelling of the letters SO (for Standard Oil) for no explainable reason in the 70s changed it's name to the very similar, and meaningless, Exxon. (And we are not allowed to pronunce it Exx'n, was we do with Bost'n, Washingt'n and Oreg'n, we must say Ex'awn.)

Care to comment, or add more ununderstandable short-cuts? Peak is lonely, has time on his hands and is very, very cold up here.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> Me, from another currently running thread...
> 
> 
> > ... I'm actually more interested in the phrase back in the day used by the OP, have heard it used unendingly for the past ten years, understand the context, but don't at all get the precision; what exactly is the day?
> ...


Because "heydey" can't directly replace "the day", therefore the fact that it takes the same amount of time to say or write is irrelevant. Nobody says "back in heydey", there's still a 'the' required there.



> And why is it we say _gas_ for _gasoline _but not _vas_ for _vasoline_.


Because "gas" was already a real word, and people saw something familiar to shorten "gasoline" to. "Vas" is not a real word (in English) so it probably never occurred to anyone to shorten it.



> Why is _trou_ for _trouser_ used only in the phrase _drop trou_, but never when buying or wearing them?


Don't know.



> Why is it we say _phone_ for _telephone_, but not _vision _for _television_?


Because "vision" is already an actual word which, were it to be substituted for "television", would confuse the meaning of the sentence; i.e., "Want to watch the vision," isn't immediately clear. How do you watch vision? You need vision to watch anything at all, but it's not something you can see.



> And why has _computer_ never been shortened to anything while_ package_, a measley two syllables, becomes a _pack_ when it holds my smokes, but only then because the mail person does not deliver stuff in _packs_ (tho my previous one did, but only because he rode a mule).


You've never heard of a 'puter?

Answers to the rest of these questions: Because that's the way it is.



> In younger days a pizza was a pizza pie, a limo was a limousine and a deli was a delicatessen. I think the last two shorties have ruined two very beautiful French-derived words and believe a person who calls a limousine a limo deserves never to ride in one. Though I should be allowed to slobber through a pizza without saying pie.
> 
> Businesses abbreviate themselves too, sometimes into nothingness. The Columbia Broadcasting System, better known as CBS, legally changed its name to its initials 20 years ago, making the letters CBS officially stand for nothing. Esso, the country's best known brand of gasoline and a phonetic spelling of the letters SO (for Standard Oil) for no explainable reason in the 70s changed it's name to the very similar, and meaningless, Exxon. (And we are not allowed to pronunce it Exx'n, was we do with Bost'n, Washingt'n and Oreg'n, we must say Ex'awn.)
> 
> Care to comment, or add more ununderstandable short-cuts? Peak is lonely, has time on his hands and is very, very cold up here.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

JJR512 said:


> Because "heydey" can't directly replace "the day", therefore the fact that it takes the same amount of time to say or write is irrelevant. Nobody says "back in heydey", there's still a 'the' required there.


This wasn't really meant to be a debate, just a little rhetorical musing, not always easy to do with you. And it's _heyday_, not heydey. And I don't understand a word of what you just wrote above because it's _the day_ which replaces _heyday_ and not the other way around, and to say _in the heyday_ takes the same amount of time (enunciated syllables) yet is two letters/spaces shorter to write than this damnable _back in the day_


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

And you're correct, I've never heard of a _'puter_.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> Esso, the country's best known brand of gasoline and a phonetic spelling of the letters SO (for Standard Oil) for no explainable reason in the 70s changed it's name to the very similar, and meaningless, Exxon.


Actually, it was for a very explainable reason, if you consider "very explainable" to mean something like "requiring a lot of explanation."

Among other things, Esso wasn't really the country's best-known brand of gasoline, as Standard Oil of New Jersey (then the name of the company that used the brand) was only allowed to use it in some states, thanks to a weird mish-mash of antitrust settlements. As a result, the same company was identified by at least three different brand names in different parts of the country.

So changing the brand name to match nationwide, and to match the name of the company as well, wasn't such a bad idea.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> This wasn't really meant to be a debate, just a little rhetorical musing, not always easy to do with you. And it's _heyday_, not heydey. And I don't understand a word of what you just wrote above because it's _the day_ which replaces _heyday_ and not the other way around, and to say _in the heyday_ takes the same amount of time (enunciated syllables) yet is two letters/spaces shorter to write than this damnable _back in the day_


First you were talking about "the day" being replaced by "heyday". Your exact words, with your own emphasis duplicated, were, "But _the day_ takes the same amount of time to write or say as _heyday_." It was an assumption on my part that your rhetoric was pondering replacing the modern "back in the day" with the old-fashioned "back in the heyday". But because you were, according to what I just quoted, talking about "the day" vs. "heyday", I pointed out that you cannot simply take out "the day" from the phrase "back in *the day*" and replace it with "heyday", because then you would have, "back in heyday". You need to keep the "the" in there, but you left that out when you wrote what I just quoted from you.

But now you are talking about "back in the day" vs. "in the heyday". You're changing it up from what you originally said. Same number of syllables so it takes the same amount of time to say, but now you're complaining that the modern version is two characters longer than the classic version. Earlier, you were comparing "the day" to "heyday"; the extra character in "the day" didn't seem to bother you then, because you did, in fact, say, "..._the day_ takes the same amount of time to write...as _heyday_." But now that it's _two_ extra characters instead of only one, suddenly it's apparently a big deal. Weird.

I'm perfectly happy saying, "Back in the day..." It suits me. I usually follow it with something like, "...when I was cool," or occasionally, "...when I was a little girl fighting in the war..."


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

I wish so badly now that I had not begun this. So far, we've got you going on a mumbo jumbo road trip to nowhere that I'm interested in following and then there's Starch who sees wisdom in scrapping a brand name in use since 1929 and replacing it with a jazzy full-of-x's name that means nothing. Not quite the playful exercise in phrase origins I'd hoped for.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

One of the worst shortenings ever: PacSun from Pacific Sunwear. What the frak?

As you have probably guessed, I also have a grudge against now-meaningless acronyms. It's shameful that CBS tossed out their true name in the stroke of a pen. Same goes to KFC. What's next? Best Buy and Brooks Brothers will both turn into "BB" just to confuse everyone? Why not also McDonald's into "McD's"? It will never end, I swear.



Peak and Pine said:


> And you're correct, I've never heard of a _'puter_.


 I have, but only in a movie from 1995.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Jovan said:


> *One of the worst shortenings ever*: PacSun from Pacific Sunwear. What the frak?
> 
> As you have probably guessed, I also have a grudge against now-meaningless acronyms. It's shameful that CBS tossed out their true name in the stroke of a pen. Same goes to KFC. What's next? Best Buy and Brooks Brothers will both turn into "BB" just to confuse everyone? Why not also McDonald's into "McD's"? It will never end, I swear.
> 
> I have, but only in a movie from 1995.


No, I think that title goes to "The Shack"(Radio Shack) and "The Hut".(Pizza Hut)


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Yeah, but those are only used in advertisements as a way of sounding cool. Radio Shack and Pizza Hut have not actually changed their names. Pacific Sunwear legally changed their name to PacSun while I was still working there. I thought it was dumb and I was quite vocal about my opinion. I wasn't the only one.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> there's Starch who sees wisdom in scrapping a brand name in use since 1929


"Esso" was certainly used earlier than 1929, and the name for which it's an acronym was used in the 1860s.

The point is that Standard Oil was forced to divide into a number of different companies, and the right of any one of them to use the "Standard Oil" brand name (or an acronym) without something further to distinguish it from the other Standard Oils was tenuous and limited. I have never actually seen an Esso station in the United States, having grown up in a state where they weren't legally allowed to use the brand name.

It's not hard to see the wisdom in "scrapping" a brand name that you barely have the right to use.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Reading this thread is somewhat like stumbling into an unexpected episode of the Outer Limits(?)!! However, getting back to the OP, is the term heyday really a suitable compression of the phrase, "back in the day?" Back in the day is not necessarily a reference to ones "heyday(s) but rather, a reference to any number of specific moments in time.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

My first recollections of "back in the day" are from African Americans referring to either the days before the Civil Rights movement, or to the days of slavery. Subsequently, the generic public seem to have started using it as a general preface to the past.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

I'll never forget the first time I heard someone refer to a cellular phone as a cell phone. It made me furious. To me a cell phone is the phone in the jail from which you get your one call. 

I think it all started when people started calling "delicatessen," "deli."


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

FedEx.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Liberty Ship said:


> I'll never forget the first time I heard someone refer to a cellular phone as a cell phone. It made me furious. To me a cell phone is the phone in the jail from which you get your one call.
> 
> I think it all started when people started calling "delicatessen," "deli."


Or when Cell Phones looked like bricks?


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

As we've entered the "Information Age" (INFO AGE), the ability to relay said info faster has become a prized ability. Within the English language, we've made it an art form with the use of acronyms, abbreviations, trade jargon, and even slang. If you were to compare us to other countries (such as China), who lack the ability to do this because of the complexity of their written language, you can see the distinct advantage we have in the modern age.

We converse faster, we relay info faster, we get things done faster (in theory). Of course, we spend a lot of thinking time converting LOLs and OMGs back into what they really mean. How many people remember what the acronyms SCUBA, LASER, and RADAR stand for off the top of their heads?

Don't get me wrong, some of the phrasing I find downright frivolous, and possibly even silly, but coming from several fields which use "Trade Jargon" which relays VERY specific (or VERY general) information quickly I can't really complain about it's use. You've got to take the good with the bad.

As for Branding (The changing of company names), sometimes you need to. Someone mentioned KFC earlier. They did it to survive. Kentucky *FRIED* Chicken would have destroyed during the Health Food craze of the era, so the company wisely decided to "rebrand" itself to minimize the damage. It was a business decision to ride out a potential business killer. I really can't fault them for that. I also know of other companies who have changed their name after forming (or expanding), to better meet their actual business goals.

If a man opens an auto body shop (Ed's Body Shop), and ends up doing a lot of Tire Business, we wouldn't fault him for changing the name to Ed's Body and Tire. If the Body Shop portion just becomes a liability, he drops it, and it just becomes Ed's Tire. Things change. Rebranding, and Renaming is a way to present those changes to the public.

Radio Shack is a great example... Why do people go to radio shack now days? I personally go for oddball batteries and small electrical parts (unlikely). It's been years since I've had to work on a "radio," and hence it's been years since I've needed to go into a Radio Shack. They could use some serious rebranding.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Apatheticviews said:


> As we've entered the "Information Age" (INFO AGE), the ability to relay said info faster has become a prized ability.


We have _always_ been in an information age. Check with Socrates. Maybe you're referring to the method of dispersal or the speed at which its accomplished, but don't idealize the present as some sort of cornucopia of new found information when in reality its mostly just shuffling of known stuff on to the unknowing, valuable yes, but hardly worthy of the moniker Info Age.



Eagle said:


> However, getting back to the OP, is the term heyday really a suitable compression of the phrase, "back in the day?" Back in the day is not necessarily a reference to ones "heyday(s) but rather, a reference to any number of specific moments in time.


I agree with you. But it was Mad Hatter that said it meant _hey day_. It doesn't seem synonymous. So the original question still stands. And we can still safely discuss it because I think JJR512 is in bed after having been up a great deal of the night fiddling with Centrum (see latest entries in "Mate" thread). Liberty Ship says it's a Black expression. I can't authenticate that because the three Blacks here in Maine are busy right now and even when not they're really not big on rehashing that slavery thing


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

> Abbreviations are linguistic pedals to the medal


Back in the day it was "put the pedal to the *metal*" which means stomp on the gas and floor it.
:icon_smile:


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Of course you're right. I mis-typed, probably be due to the fingerless gloves I was wearing at the time, the time being _back in the night_, the last one, when it was -6° outside and I could only crank the stove so high, until I tossed the cat in which boosted it some.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Don't any of you twerps own an etymological dictionary? :rolleyes2: :smile:

The origins of the word _heyday_ aren't clear, especially with the ending _day_. It sounds like it ought to be day as in "day of reckoning" but it isn't. May have something to do with various Germanic exclamations that sound like "day" or "dey" or "da!" but no one knows for sure.

Relevant definition of _heyday_: "The stage or period when excited feeling is at its height; the height, zenith or acme of anything which excites the feelings; the flush, or full bloom, or stage of fullest vigor, of youth, enjoyment, prosperity or the like...."

So it's all about emotions, and could have been last week.

And it's hardly a new thing: first recorded use was by Smollett in 1751: "Our imperious youth...was now in the heyday of his blood."

More apropos to this thread may be Sterne's use of it in 1768: "I was interrupted in the hey-day of this soliloquy, with a voice."


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Quay (above) doesn't visit often and I'm proud that I can sometimes smoke him out, being among his twerps in not owning an etymological dictionary, nor does he of course, but Google covers many sins.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Pack up your pride and bury it with your dwindling fuel. You won't be smoking much else my way except your usual blend, whatever that may be.

And I've owned the whole OED since I was four. QED.

While I always appreciate those who appreciate words, this is my last entry. During my vacation, revelation. Talking about clothes is a complete waste of time and while such discussions sometimes attract the wise and witty it most often lures those of a different disposition. Too many other things to do in life.

_Finis._


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Geez, I don't wanna carry the burden of having knocked a good guy out of here. Check your mail box please.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Peak and Pine said:


> And why has _computer_ never been shortened to anything Care to comment, or add more ununderstandable short-cuts? Peak is lonely, has time on his hands and is very, very cold up here.


PC, in Europe at least. I understand the original IBM objections to peeps using PC for every 'puter but that was long ago. 
Thx for this thread P & P I love discussing lingusitics, it's part of my job & a hobby so that's understandable.
The abbs. I struggle most with aren't word abbs. at all but acronyms for whole phrases, esp. the newly created ones on the net. E.g. I remember 1st time I saw IIRC, it took me ages & ages to work out what it could mean. I didn't want to ask anyone of course.

A fav. acronym is dilligaf! There is now even a cheap Asian watch brand, Dilligaf.

Back later when I've thought about if there are any non-understandable abbs. that I've come across.
MEANWHILE I'll just say I prefer pedal to the medal...it makes you think!

TTFN!


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Apatheticviews said:


> We converse faster, we relay info faster, we get things done faster (in theory). Of course, we spend a lot of thinking time converting LOLs and OMGs back into what they really mean. How many people remember what the acronyms SCUBA, LASER, and RADAR stand for off the top of their heads?


I can remember what those mean off the top of my head, and SONAR, too. But I don't think this is really a valid point. When I see SCUBA or LASER or RADAR, I don't need to stop and think about what they mean before I can comprehend the sentence in which those _words_ are contained. Because those abbreviations, those acronyms, are just that: _words_. I don't think _anyone_ needs to know what "RADAR" actually stands for to be able to know what the word "radar" means. Now, I don't speak for everyone, but as for myself, "LOL" and "OMG" are exactly the same. They have attained the status of _words_ to me. I don't need to stop and think about what they mean; understanding what is meant by "LOL" is, for me, just as instantaneous a process as understanding what "head" means in the middle of a sentence.



> Radio Shack is a great example... Why do people go to radio shack now days? I personally go for oddball batteries and small electrical parts (unlikely). It's been years since I've had to work on a "radio," and hence it's been years since I've needed to go into a Radio Shack. They could use some serious rebranding.


I understand what you meant with regard to the KFC example, and Ed's Body Shop becoming Ed's Tires, but personally, I don't see a need for Radio Shack to change. For me, just as for you, I don't go there to buy radios or parts for radio repair. But if ever I need an odd battery, or some kind of electronic or electric gadget or gizmo, I know where to go. I mean, it's not as if I've ever said to myself, "Gee, I need an odd battery...If only there was a store called 'Battery Shack' I would instantly know where to go..."


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> TTFN!


Ah, the ol' Ta Ta For Now. Thank you. Oddly reminiscent of TTFO, which perhaps only those in the cut throat profession to which I was once attached would be familiar. What happened to Harry?, one might ask when seeing his vacant parking spot. Harry was TTFO'd last night, might be the reply. You can supply the meaning.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'll have a seance to consult with the ghost of the Easter Bunny and see what he thinks.

Our family has had bad karma since that fateful Palm Sunday in 1973.

You don't suppose they'll desecrate his memory by downsizing him to EB, do you?


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Peak and Pine said:


> Harry was TTFO'd last night, might be the reply. You can supply the meaning.


The F is the same as the F in Dilligaf.


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> I can remember what those mean off the top of my head, and SONAR, too. But I don't think this is really a valid point. When I see SCUBA or LASER or RADAR, I don't need to stop and think about what they mean before I can comprehend the sentence in which those _words_ are contained. Because those abbreviations, those acronyms, are just that: _words_. I don't think _anyone_ needs to know what "RADAR" actually stands for to be able to know what the word "radar" means. Now, I don't speak for everyone, but as for myself, "LOL" and "OMG" are exactly the same. They have attained the status of _words_ to me. I don't need to stop and think about what they mean; understanding what is meant by "LOL" is, for me, just as instantaneous a process as understanding what "head" means in the middle of a sentence.
> 
> I understand what you meant with regard to the KFC example, and Ed's Body Shop becoming Ed's Tires, but personally, I don't see a need for Radio Shack to change. For me, just as for you, I don't go there to buy radios or parts for radio repair. But if ever I need an odd battery, or some kind of electronic or electric gadget or gizmo, I know where to go. I mean, it's not as if I've ever said to myself, "Gee, I need an odd battery...If only there was a store called 'Battery Shack' I would instantly know where to go..."


SCUBA, RADAR, & LASER are beautiful examples because they have become words in their own rights, which was my point. You don't have to think about what they mean, because at this point, it's nearly irrelevant. Like you said, we know what each of those things are, even if we don't know what each of the letters that make up the acronym stand for. The information has become so fast that it skipped intervening points.

In military symbology we use a series of rectangles or diamonds with various lines, squiggles, etc to designate nearly any type of military unity. For example, a Friendly Infantry Battalion would be displayed as a Blue Rectangle with an X in the center going from all for corners, and one small staff centered and extending from the top. This symbol conveys A LOT of information quickly (especially when displayed on a map). As you said, radar is just a word, but in reality it is just a *symbol*. Much like a stop sign is just a symbol. We don't read them anymore. We just see them, and know they are a Stop Sign.

As for Radio Shack.. Do I think they should change their name? Not really. Do I think they could use some healthy "rebranding?" Maybe. They need something that explains what they are better than "radio shack" though. Kentucky Fried Chicken says Fried Chicken. Taco Bell says Taco. Radio Shack says Radio... But unfortunately, we don't buy a whole lot of radios anymore. 99% of what we go to Radio Shack for isn't Radios. The name seems slightly off is my point. It's like going to Bob's Burgers and finding out they are a Ice Cream Place.


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