# Top 3 to your son



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

As your son(s) come of age what sartorial advice, if any, will you give them. Bearing in mind that today's teenagers have a very different clothing style & a very different attitude to clothes and what does & doesn't look right. You don't want to sound like an old geezer correcting current fashion elements like the currnetly popular wearing of the traditional clashing colours (red/orange, blue/green), untucked shirts, half-mast ties and the front of the jean cuff tucked into sock eek:yes, a current one in Sweden; much like Carson's awful tuck the middle of your T-shirt hem only into your trousers behind the belt buckle). But at the same time you want to give them some solid guidelines as they approach young manhood. 

Your top 3 please gents. Mine later :icon_smile:


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

1) Always look Neat & Clean for the *oldest* audience expected to be present. They are the ones who can determine your future. They have the current power, which is what you want. Fashion may change, but Neat & Clean does not. aka. *Don't look sloppy in anyone's eyes.*

2) *Dress for the occasion*, and pay attention to the details. The little things are what will make or break it.

3) *Be confident.* You chose the outfit as a type of uniform. It was the best one for the occasion, and if others are over or underdressed, they obviously made the mistake, not you. Confidence can put people at ease. Confidence can drive people away. It will put the people you want at ease, and the ones you don't away.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Good ones there. I'm not revealing my 3 yet but your No. 3 is similar to my No.1 :icon_smile_wink:


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

He's dealing with his own teenage child so I expect any advice he might solicit from me now would be related to raising a teen, not his attire; however, I do remember what I said to him when he was a teenager and he turned up one day with a buzz haircut. I said "Grow some hair, boy." That haircut was killing this old hippie. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

I'm not quite ready for children myself, but the top three clothing related things my father taught to me were:

1. How to tie a tie. 
2. How to shine shoes.
3. To stay away from novelty t-shirts and clothing with ads on them.

I also have to thank my mother for teaching me to do the laundry, iron clothing, and sew buttons. Yes, I know it sounds terribly sexist and old fashioned but at least I learned these things and I am most grateful to them.


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## 12345Michael54321 (Mar 6, 2008)

1. Keeping to a budget is important, but paying a little more for quality is seldom a mistake. And in the long run, it may even save you money.

2. It's better to be the only man present who's wearing a tie, than to be the only man present who's not wearing a tie.

3. Proper fit is everything. Few men would willingly choose to wear shoes 4 sizes too big, or 3 sizes too small. Apply the same insistence on wearing only the right size to the rest of your wardrobe. (Okay, some women will choose to wear shoes 3 sizes too small for them. But they're women, so we aren't expected to understand how they think. Besides, some of them can look quite good in unnaturally small clothing.)
-- 
Michael


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

I was a product of a single-parent home, but my mom rules for me were:

*Always give good impressions- *Which means whenever I meet someone, I should be presentable because first good impressions start by first looking at how well you dress.

*Always wear what's comfortable to you*- It means that while dressing well, I shouldn't wear stuff that I don't like because people tell me to wear it.( I think she told me this partly because my Grandmother was strict, and forced my mother to wear some hideous clothes when she was smaller)

*Always wear stuff that Fit*- She told me that I could have the most expensive suit the the world, but if it didn't fit well, then It wouldn't matter if it was expensive because on me it would look cheap.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*top 3*

My friends

1.Shine your shoes.
2. Shine your shoes
3. Take your shoes off when entering someones home.


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## Casual_yet_trying (Mar 25, 2010)

1. 4 necktie ties (Windsor, half-Windsor, four in hand, Pratt)
2. Sarcastic t-shirts will get you nowhere in life (personal experience)
3. Learn to love the feel of a suit


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm struggling with two 14 year old boys. My brain cannot cope with coming up with three bits of advice. The best I can do in my swim against the tide is to say "wear what is appropriate". In other words, make an effort for weddings and funerals, and put on some nice clothes when friends and family come around.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

1. It's better to have a few pieces of durable clothing that fit and are ethically made than a suitcase-full of cheap stuff in fake sizes made in a way that disrespects both the worker and the environment.

2. Formality is group-specific, not place specific; the idea behind different levels of formality is that they put different types of people at ease. Sometimes over-dressing can cause just as much tension among others as under-dressing can.

3. Do your best to be genuine. Clothing can't make a person something they're not.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

1. Quality over quantity, buy something that is well made and will last the test of time.

2. Classicism over trends, this years model is exactly that. Learn about clothes understand what suits you and wear it with confidence.

3. Get your hair cut on regular basis, (he looks like cousin it at present) and stop wearing those damn underpants outside your trousers, there underpants not advertising.:crazy:

Oh and one last piece of advice from the bard; 'to thy own self be true.'


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> the front of the jean cuff tucked into sock eek:yes, a current one in Sweden; much like Carson's awful tuck the middle of your T-shirt hem only into your trousers behind the belt buckle).


A friend in Sydney told me that shell tracksuits (sooo last century) with bum bags are on the rise amongst teenage boys.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

katon said:


> It's better to have a few pieces of durable clothing that fit and are ethically made than a suitcase-full of cheap stuff in fake sizes made in a way that disrespects both the worker and the environment.


What does that mean? Sounds like some anti-Commie thing. Anyway, how many of us born here remember learning to speak English? That answer would be zero. It got oozed into us by the those around us long before memory clicked in. And so it goes with dressing knowledge, or should, no? Do you not set a daily example for your kids or do you mean you plan to actually sit them down at, say age 16 and say stuff like, listen, junior, always shine your shoes. Either how stupid are your kids or you? _Son, learn to love the feel of a suit._ Wha? There's not an important piece of advice so far that your son shouldn't have been able to pick up from being in your company for a dozen or more years. And while emulation of his peers may tug, which is not altogether a bad thing, you're still his father and it is you that he as an emerging adult will secretly seek to copy. This all presumes he admires you. (Your job, you are the genesis of all non-pop culture admiration.) If so, then to be similar seems like the natural order of things.
​


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

ZachGranstrom said:


> *Always wear what's comfortable to you*- It means that while dressing well, I shouldn't wear stuff that I don't like because people tell me to wear it.( I think she told me this partly because my Grandmother was strict, and forced my mother to wear some hideous clothes when she was smaller)


Again, a rule very close to my No.1


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

DukeGrad said:


> My friends
> 
> 3. Take your shoes off when entering someones home.


You'd love Sweden then. No one wears shoes at home, residents or guests. And Children up to age 16 don't wear outdoor footwear in the classrooms and hallways. My family & friends from the UK get the hang of it after a couple of days.


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*the three pillars of wisdom?*

"Dress British, think Yiddish" - well, it used to work on Madison Avenue in olden days.

How about:

1) dress in a manner that is never fully in style nor out of style either;
2) buy the best that you can afford and take care of it
3) if you appear not to care what others think, they will not think much of you.


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

1. Budgeting, deal finding, and when to pay retail
2. Correct fit
3. How to shine shoes


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

ajo said:


> A friend in Sydney told me that shell tracksuits (sooo last century) with bum bags are on the rise amongst teenage boys.


Noooooo!!!! Say it ain't so!! 
(I always snicker at the US name for them, "fanny packs" snicker, snicker :icon_smile


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

katon said:


> 3. Do your best to be genuine. Clothing can't make a person something they're not.


Very good that one,related in a way to my No.1


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

ajo said:


> A friend in Sydney told me that shell tracksuits (sooo last century) with bum bags are on the rise amongst teenage boys.


Thankfully that style is not popular in my country. All I have to worry about is kids who wear Ed Hardy shirts, quoting lines from the show Jersey Shore.:crazy:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

My three are from the perspective of both my sons growing up in Sweden. Where a horrible old thing called Jantelagen (unwritten modesty rule. Very Lutheran) implies that people shouldn't try to be too proud, or stand out or be different.

*1. Comfortable/confidence*
Never wear anything you're not comfortable in. If you don't like the look of what you've put on, change it. You should never feel self-conscious by your own actions. However, If you're wearing something you have to wear (uniform, DJ) that you don't like the look of then that's a different matter, get used to it! Once you've decided on your rig, no matter how different or eccentric or indivdual it is, be confident in the wearing of it. You are an individual, be confident in that, be confident in who you are, and don't pretend to be something you're not. Clothes do not maketh the man!

*2. Snob/rebel* 
Respect what's expected! In other words don't be a snob and turn up to events for working class or poor people wearing the most expensive suits,ties and shoes or overdressed in a suit when you know for a fact that most people will be in jeans or just their everyday clothes. And at the other end of the scale, don't try to be a rebel and turn up to formal events dressed like a slob in jeans, T-shirt and trainers when you know for a fact that most people will be in at least lounge suits. (Both of these are major problems in Sweden amongst the generation born in the 80s)

*3. Compliments, small talk, and everday civilities*
One thing that all age groups in Sweden seem to suffer from is giving and receiving compliments, making comfortable small talk, and saying simple things like "you're welcome" when someone says thanks, and saying "thank you" when someone helps you, etcetera. Learn not to be embarrassed when someone pays you a compliment on your appearance and to thank them for it; and not to do the usual thing that Swedes do of laughing it off and making a sarcastic reply rather than saying thank you genuinely. Learn to give compliments genuinely too.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

1.Always dress like a mensch.

2.Always dress appropriately

3.Wear a tie on occasions.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Thanks for asking*

In the course of raising three sons I tried to instill sartorial taste and good sense along the lines of much of which was posted in this thread. In retrospect, the best thing I did was set an example of how to dress. That is essentially the point of this forum.

As a practical matter I taught my sons, and some of their friends, how to:

Shine shoes,
Knot a tie,
Shave.

I also explained and demonstrated how suits are supposed to fit. I enjoyed taking my boys to the local tailor and having OTR suits measured and altered to fit well, and buying them good shoes (AE's), shoe trees, and a brush and polish.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Noooooo!!!! Say it ain't so!!
> (I always snicker at the US name for them, "fanny packs" snicker, snicker :icon_smile


 My those Americans use strange English.


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## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

3) Look your best, while maintaining individuality and personality

2) Shine your shoes

1) Never let the baseball coach catch you improperly attired when it comes time for "cup check"


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Scotch&Cigars said:


> 1) Never let the baseball coach catch you improperly attired when it comes time for "cup check"


Always wise advice!:icon_smile_big:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

4) change teams if your coach feels your cup too often! :icon_smile_wink:


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> 4) change teams if your coach feels your cup too often! :icon_smile_wink:


Funny yet creepy, all at the same time.:icon_smile_big: :crazy:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

ZachGranstrom said:


> Funny yet creepy, all at the same time.:icon_smile_big: :crazy:


I know, "sorry", but "ha ha" at the same time. We have to able to talk about and laugh at such ideas,images,thoughts,pain at the same time in order to process them w/o causing unnecessary offence/hurt of course. 
I had orignally illustrated that with a story from my days in the Royal Green Jacket army cadets in the mid-70s and a Company Captain in his 60s who liked to touch boys "inappropriately" which of course caused a few of the lads to leave. But while I felt that that would be too far off topic I've now said it. Luckily the sick bastard never touched me, but I left soon after finding out anyway.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> 4) change teams if your coach feels your cup too often! :icon_smile_wink:


Man,that doesn't sound right.


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## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> 4) change teams if your coach feels your cup too often! :icon_smile_wink:


We never had coaches that would dream of that. Our coaches would give us a light tap with a bat to make sure we were wearing one. Of course, that probably wouldn't fly these days without a lawsuit either...


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Peak and Pine said:


> katon said:
> 
> 
> > It's better to have a few pieces of durable clothing that fit and are ethically made than a suitcase-full of cheap stuff in fake sizes made in a way that disrespects both the worker and the environment.
> ...


"[D]urable clothing that fits" means that given the choice, it's better to have a few things of genuine quality than a bunch of things with the superficial appearance of quality. "ethically made" means that one shouldn't ignore how things are produced; social and environmental responsibility are extensions of personal responsibility.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Scotch&Cigars said:


> We never had coaches that would dream of that. Our coaches would give us a light tap with a bat to make sure we were wearing one. Of course, that probably wouldn't fly these days without a lawsuit either...


True, some over sensitive mother would probably consider it assault and go straight to the authorities.


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## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> True, some over sensitive mother would probably consider it assault and go straight to the authorities.


Who, not coincidentally, is the same mother who would sue the league/coach if her kid was hit in the nuts, because the coach didn't make sure he was wearing a cup...


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Scotch&Cigars said:


> Who, not coincidentally, is the same mother who would sue the league/coach if her kid was hit in the nuts, because the coach didn't make sure he was wearing a cup...


Or that the kid didn't get enough playing time.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

We've already decided that we wont even talk about kids till I hit the big three oh, which would put the wifey at 25 and probably be about the perfect time to start thinking about starting a family, so maybe my views on dress will change in those 3 1/2 years, but...

1) Style is the most important part of dressing-That's why some dudes can wear a cheap suit/outfit and make it look good, while other guys can rock high end stuff and still look like crap...I mean, quality counts for something, but you gotta know how to dress yourself...

2) Dress for the occasion- Of course you dont wanna show up to a formal affair in your gym clothes, but at the same time you'll also feel pretty foolish wearing a 3 piece to a backyard BBQ...

3) The only real "rule" of dressing is make sure it looks good- Rather than stressing over certain rules (which the vast majority of people you'll encounter in a day dont know about anyway), let your eyes do the judging; LOOK in the mirror, make sure that what youre wearing looks good, and for the most part, you'll be good to go...No matter what style you favor, from the most casual to the most formal, it usually seems like the best dressed fellas are "rule" breakers...

and a big thumbs up to the OP...this is one of the more fun threads I've read in the ol' interchange lately (so I had to post)...


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

oops...just thought of a fourth one that kind of goes with my previous three:

Versatility- You have to have a well rounded wardrobe...there's nothing wrong with wearing denim some days, and suits on others, if you are unwilling to include certain elements in your wardrobe because say for example "t-shirts are beneath you" or "The man will never make you wear a suit and tie"...well then you're missing out on alot of cool stuff either way...yup...gotta have a versatile wardrobe...


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## lovemeparis (May 20, 2006)

*In the eyes of the beholder...*



The Gabba Goul said:


> LOOK in the mirror, make sure that what youre wearing looks good, and for the most part, you'll be good to go...


Mirror, mirror on the wall...

Tell me who's the best dressed of all:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:

But, of course... c'est MOI


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Gabba, good to see you back. Where have you been?

Cruiser


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

The Gabba Goul said:


> We've already decided that we wont even talk about kids till I hit the big three oh, which would put the wifey at 25 and probably be about the perfect time to start thinking about starting a family, so maybe my views on dress will change in those 3 1/2 years, but...
> 
> 1) Style is the most important part of dressing-That's why some dudes can wear a cheap suit/outfit and make it look good, while other guys can rock high end stuff and still look like crap...I mean, quality counts for something, but you gotta know how to dress yourself...
> 
> ...


Top advice, all three! And great observations. If you look like crap having followed the "rules" then you need to break the rules.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> We've already decided that we wont even talk about kids till I hit the big three oh, which would put the wifey at 25 and probably be about the perfect time to start thinking about starting a family, so maybe my views on dress will change in those 3 1/2 years, but...
> 
> 1) Style is the most important part of dressing-That's why some dudes can wear a cheap suit/outfit and make it look good, while other guys can rock high end stuff and still look like crap...I mean, quality counts for something, but you gotta know how to dress yourself...
> 
> ...


You make some very good points there.


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## mjc (Nov 11, 2009)

If you're handy with tools (always carry a Leatherman!) AND you know how to cook (especially in university, where most males are drunken fools incapable of cooking Kraft Dinner), women will adore you for that and tolerate whatever sartorial flight of fancy you care to indulge in (fedoras, zoot suits, monocles, shell cordovan, whatever ...)

- Mike


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## Archdale (Mar 24, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> Do you not set a daily example for your kids or do you mean you plan to actually sit them down at, say age 16 and say stuff like, listen, junior, always shine your shoes. Either how stupid are your kids or you? _Son, learn to love the feel of a suit._ Wha? There's not an important piece of advice so far that your son shouldn't have been able to pick up from being in your company for a dozen or more years. And while emulation of his peers may tug, which is not altogether a bad thing, you're still his father and it is you that he as an emerging adult will secretly seek to copy. This all presumes he admires you. (Your job, you are the genesis of all non-pop culture admiration.) If so, then to be similar seems like the natural order of things.


Amen to that one- 
I remember as a kid seeing my father wear 3-piece suits (which are still hanging in his closet) and it obviously left an impression. I remember learning how to tie a half-windsor, which is all he ever wore, while just recently incorporating the other tie styles into my repertiore. He taught me how to shine shoes which I still do religiously to this day, and the benefit of buying quality over quantity. 
We wear the same size shoe and I raided his closet for a pair of Burgandy cap toes when I got my first job that required that sort of thing and I wore them till the shoe literally fell completely apart (uppers came clean off at the laces:crazy. I can remember those same shoes being worn by him when I was in grade school.
Anyhow to this day I have copped a couple of his vest and 2-blazers for my current wardrobe and I hope my son does the same to my collection when he comes of age. I believe that will be the sincerest form of flattery and make this young father very pround.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

1. Get a haircut. To paraphrase the Air Force, "When does a (man) need a haircut?" (Wrong answer here) "Wrong! A (man) NEVER needs a haircut!" meaning keep it cut neat and clean.

2. Dress like a man. 90% of people dress like fools. Put on your shirt, coat and tie and be ready for business. Another paraphrase, Gordon Gekko: "This is your wake up call, pal. Go to work."

3. Respect yourself. Trends come and go, buy things that last. Buy quality and cry once.

If there was a fourth, it'd be "Join the military and make something of yourself. Then 20 years later take a comfortable pension and have plenty of free time to annoy YOUR kids with advice like this."


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Pink and Green said:


> Dress like a man. 90% of people dress like fools. Put on your shirt, coat and tie and be ready for business.


I must disagree with this because most men don't work in jobs that call for a coat and tie and in fact to wear such attire would be highly inappropriate for them. The suggestion that a man who doesn't wear a coat and tie dresses like a "fool" or is not a "man" is a little much.

My father worked in a slaughterhouse and never wore a coat and tie, but he didn't dress like a fool. And his war record in Europe in WWII certainly qualified him as a man.

Cruiser


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Pink and Green said:


> 1. Get a haircut. To paraphrase the Air Force, "When does a (man) need a haircut?" (Wrong answer here) "Wrong! A (man) NEVER needs a haircut!" meaning keep it cut neat and clean.
> 
> 2. Dress like a man. 90% of people dress like fools. Put on your shirt, coat and tie and be ready for business. Another paraphrase, Gordon Gekko: "This is your wake up call, pal. Go to work."
> 
> ...


Number 3 is true,always respect yourself.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

I raised two daughters, but to my nephews I always tell them this:

"Be cool, like Uncle Kenny"!

And when they get old enough:

"******* up is _highly_ overrated"!

I think that is sound advice. :icon_smile_big:


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

I don't (and won't) have sons. What I tell my nephews is this: condoms are for sailors.


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