# LL Bean Rebranding



## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

If you were given the opportunity, how would you assist LL Bean in rebranding their image to appeal to a younger demographic ? 

In 1985, more than 30% of their customers were under the age of 35, now that figure is 4%. 

Best,

Ross


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

Ugh! This is a fantastic post. I received the LL Bean fall catalog the other day and was _astonished_ at how nauseatingly bland their products and catalog were. It is awful and sad.

Unfortunately, I don't really know how they can fix this. I think that they first need to decided which direction they want to go in: basic, somewhat outdoorsy clothes, or pure outdoor store. Right now they they are stuck in the worst of both worlds. I can't imagine a serious outdoors person (someone who backpacks and kayaks, etc. on a regular basis) thinking to themselves "Hey, I need a new technical rain jacket; let me check out LL Bean's offerings." No, they would most likely head to REI or some other such place. Similarly, I also have a hard time imagining a person saying to themselves "Hey, I need a new pair of khakis that won't be wrinkled when I take them out of the washer. Let me see what LL Bean has to offer." It would be my hope that they would focus on the clothes and up the quality and the aesthetics and take their back to their glory days.

Also, I think they could really benefit from hiring the same firm that makes J. Crew's catalogs. While I don't necessarily like the clothes in them, they make a catalog that is definitely nice to look at and generally does a good job of presenting the clothes. My guess is that LL Bean still does a pretty good catalog business so they need to put out something better than the insipid publication that they've been sending out the past few years.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

I'd prefer it if LL Bean went backwards rather than forwards, more a Filson route than an Abercrombie & Fitch one. I doubt it will happen, though.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Yes very interesting...I'd say in 1985 LL Bean was something of a cultural phenomenon, something for yuppies to latch onto to define themselves. Now they are just a giant behemoth brand. How to reinvent itself? I don't know, but they'd better figure it out...it's true they are on the bland expressway. I am finding more and more duds in their offerings each season. Still there are a good number of 'winner' products as well. $15 Pima OCBDs, $59 Lambswool Sweaters, etc...well priced staples, they still do well at. 

Danny


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

They should do what I think they used to do best, really nice looking clothes designed for the weather. I've always liked their flannel lined khakis and jeans, they are a bit snugger fitting which means they hold heat better when it's cold out. How about a line of madras hiking shorts? Bring some style into the world of khaki, green and gray outdoor gear.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

LL Bean has a classic heritage--mine it! 

They should try a cross between Filson (as suggested above) and a Yankee J Peterman.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

I'd appreciate a a move back towards a distinctive style. The last catalog was so demographically nuanced that it felt like Eddie Bauer meets JCPenney. 

They need to eliminate some of the "every other catalog" bland (and occasionally, conspicuously cheap) merchandise and utilize their quirky, but well-loved designs updated for a new generation. Cutting back on the indifference and going back to the depth of sizes and specialized merchandise that made them a must-read catalog won't hurt them in the least.


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## wolfhound986 (Jun 30, 2007)

LL Bean should concentrate on their classic signature items and bring back a few that were discontinued, and make them well-made like they used to instead of bringing them back as a cheap watered down copies of what used to be. Lots of history with that brand.

They need to look ar Eddie Bauer and *not* do what they did. EB got lost during the 00s in pursing both the outdoors crowd and the business casual crowd. So neither their outdoors items nor their clothing are the best, and to be fair, not the worst, but they're now kind of nondistinct.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Tough question. I can tell you I wouldn't want LL Bean to turn into a catalog version of A&F, Banana, etc. They have a great heritage, work w/ that and perhaps make some clothes that appeal to a little more younger customer. 

The catalogs definitely need some work and they really should get rid of the "technical" outdoor gear or at least regualte it to it's own specific catalog. I like some of their hiking shirts, but if I want North Face, Mountain Hardware, Pearl Izumi, etc I'll buy it from a store that specializes in that sort of thing.

Brian


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

I can understand LLBs dilemma; they came to their heyday riding on the crest of the "back to the land" sentimentality that really came of age in the late 60s, and they were well placed to make good advantage of that. However, that crest has flooded out and ebbed, and that particularly demographic has seriously diminished. As much as I like their product, I'm not at all sure just where their market base is now. There just aren't many neo-mountaineers or urban backwoodsmen these days.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

wolfhound986 said:


> LL Bean should concentrate on their classic signature items and bring back a few that were discontinued, and make them well-made like they used to instead of bringing them back as a cheap watered down copies of what used to be. Lots of history with that brand.
> 
> They need to look ar Eddie Bauer and *not* do what they did. EB got lost during the 00s in pursing both the outdoors crowd and the business casual crowd. So neither their outdoors items nor their clothing are the best, and to be fair, not the worst, but they're now kind of nondistinct.


I agree with all of the above. They should re-introduce some Made in America stuff. I'd pay more to get it.

Now that they are opening more storefronts, I think their slide towards mediocrity will continue.


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

rl1856 said:


> If you were given the opportunity, how would you assist LL Bean in rebranding their image to appeal to a younger demographic ?
> 
> In 1985, more than 30% of their customers were under the age of 35, now that figure is 4%.
> 
> ...


Well, those 1985 figures probably have something to do with the Official Preppy Handbook effect. Maybe Bean should contact Lisa Birnbach and ask her to update her book. Frankly, if Bean is going to target younger people, they'll probably only further alienate their existing customers - does Bean really need to sell flared jeans?

I used to buy a great deal of Bean stuff in 1985 - I used to look forward to their fall catalog, especially. I don't know about "young" people, but I'm in my late 30s and probably spend less than $200 a year with Bean ( I spent much more as a teenager 20 years ago) - I don't see much that inspires me.

I'm sick of wrinkle/stain resistant crap. I've never liked their OCBDs as they didn't have good collar roll and felt cheap. I won't buy sweaters with nylon in them. Even the tartan flannel shirts, for some reason, look cheesy - and I love tartan flannel shirts.

I agree with people's comments on the technical clothing - get rid of it. Bean was NEVER really for the truly serious outdoorsman/hunter. Even when it was exclusively hunting type gear - it's appeal was for the mid-Atlantic types - "dudes" down in Connecticut who took a week off once a year to go fish or hunt, etc. - that was the genius of the brand: it convinced people to pay a Bean markup on a chamois shirt that could be acquired for half the price at a discount store.

Bean lost me when they started doing things like licensing their name with Subaru - which I think sums up Bean's image nicely. When I think of Bean nowadays, I think of little Subaru driving, $4 coffee drinking, pseudo-bohemians. I liked it better when it was the purveyor of quality/practical clothing - back when it offered to cuff all the trousers. The Norwegian sweater is another example of the modern Bean. The Norwegian sweater was ICONIC. Apparently, it cost too much to make in Norway, or something so, instead - they offer a Chinese made sweater that doesn't look as good. They should stop cutting corners for the sake of a lower price.

Frankly, I think it's a sin that a company that tries to play off of its Maine heritage doesn't employ Maine residents to make its bluchers and moccasin style shoes (which they did not so long ago) and has those mode overseas as well. Bean has lost its heart - it used to be special to me - now, it's just a mass marketer of ordinary, made in China, middle class garb. I can get that anywhere.

Go get a catalog from 1983 and look at it - I miss the old catalogs.


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

AlanC said:


> LL Bean has a classic heritage--mine it!
> 
> They should try a cross between Filson (as suggested above) and a Yankee J Peterman.


...with a dash of folksiness a la the Vermont Country store.

Current LL Bean is stodgy, not in an endearing way, but the worst sort of bland, inoffensive, suburban soccer mom way.

Its funny, when I see young people with LL Bean it is usually one of the two tried and true classics: the Bean Boot or the tote bag.

Bean needs to have a dozen classic, heavy-weight, items that it sells year in and year out which are all made in the US or Europe: the chamois shirt, bill's level khakis, a solid ocbd, shetland sweater, norwegian sweater, and a better, less soccer-momish barn coat.

They also need some outlandishly expensive showpiece items like Orvis's limited edition baboo fly rod, or a $10,000 wooden canoe, a set of campaign furniture, something like the high end Ralph stuff, that gives the more pedestrian khakis and boat shoes some mystique. I agree with the suggestions for a better catolog. I also like the way that J.Crew has taken to selling special editions from classic places--the Hunter Wellies, the Top-Siders, the Red Wings, the re-badged Loro Piana cashmere. Something like that might also work for Bean.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

What, I dare to ask, is wrong with bland?

Actually, probably plenty. But since some of us now drown in a sea of bland*, there arises a need to justify its place in the world.

**The Organization Man*, William H. Whyte.



tripreed said:


> Ugh! This is a fantastic post. I received the LL Bean fall catalog the other day and was _astonished_ at how nauseatingly bland their products and catalog were. It is awful and sad.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't really know how they can fix this. I think that they first need to decided which direction they want to go in: basic, somewhat outdoorsy clothes, or pure outdoor store. Right now they they are stuck in the worst of both worlds. I can't imagine a serious outdoors person (someone who backpacks and kayaks, etc. on a regular basis) thinking to themselves "Hey, I need a new technical rain jacket; let me check out LL Bean's offerings." No, they would most likely head to REI or some other such place. Similarly, I also have a hard time imagining a person saying to themselves "Hey, I need a new pair of khakis that won't be wrinkled when I take them out of the washer. Let me see what LL Bean has to offer." It would be my hope that they would focus on the clothes and up the quality and the aesthetics and take their back to their glory days.
> 
> Also, I think they could really benefit from hiring the same firm that makes J. Crew's catalogs. While I don't necessarily like the clothes in them, they make a catalog that is definitely nice to look at and generally does a good job of presenting the clothes. My guess is that LL Bean still does a pretty good catalog business so they need to put out something better than the insipid publication that they've been sending out the past few years.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

Perhaps they should look to for inspiration...

TT:teacha:


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## GWhite (Aug 25, 2007)

Wouldn't help with the younger demographic, but bring back the pipes!:icon_smile: 

I actually have one in my rack... smoked it a few days ago.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Rocker said:


> I liked it better when it was the purveyor of quality/practical clothing - back when it offered to cuff all the trousers.


I did notice on one of the cords it said they will hem or cuff to spec, that's one change I wish they'd make for all their pants.

Is customizing your clothes a big deal? I know LE does it for some of their casual clothes, but I wonder how many people go that route.

Brian


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

vwguy said:


> Is customizing your clothes a big deal? I know LE does it for some of their casual clothes, but I wonder how many people go that route.
> 
> Brian


I don't like trousers, even casual trousers, without cuffs. Bean used to have it as an option on all almost all of their trousers, back when. The least they could do is sell them unhemmed so, I can pay someone to do it. It's just one more thing where they cut corners - or don't offer a valued service that they used to.

Which reminds me - they used to advertise, in their catalog, the fact that you could get your Maine Hunting Boots "re-soled." They still do it but they don't advertise it - probably because they want people to buy a new pair - but itwas the idea of thrift/value, that Bean stood behind its product (not that they don't still have a good return policy) that gave it a kind of aura of being special. You could buy Bean boot knockoffs anywhere for less (see Cabelas), but it was the fact that they were made in Maine and that Bean would attach new bottoms that makes the product worth the price - you were getting value. How many people have purchased from Quoddy because they're handmade in Maine by craftsmen? Bean just feels so much more mass-market now. It was big even when I was a kid, I suppose but somehow - they made it feel like only you and a select few knew about Bean.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

In the early 80s I bought a large percentage of my clothing from them. It was solid quality, functional, easy to order, a pleasure all around. 

The best part was their guarantee - 'return anything at any time for any reason'. I bought a pair of chromexel handsewn loafers with Vibram soles. They were perfect. Wore them heavily, wore down the heels, of course. Hard to get the heels fixed, I called Bean. they said 'we'll repair'. They replaced the entire Vibram sole for $4.00. Wore them for another 6 months, same heel wear. I sent them back with a check for $4.00. They sent me a brand new pair.

Who else, then or now, offers such service?

(By the way, these days I don't even bother to scan the catalogue. I don't own anything from them anymore.)


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Rocker, those are all good points, we should get a mass of e-mails going to LL Bean to let them know how we feel. 

If they are custom hemming & cuffing some pants, they should be able to do it for more if not all of them. Most of the khakis I buy now come from LE because I can have them done in 1/4" increments.

Brian


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## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*My Two Cents: A Utah-centric Perspective.*

In my entire life, I've not seen more than, say, fifteen pairs of L.L. Bean's Maine Hunting Shoe. Yet I've seen hundreds of thousands of pairs of lookalikes, imitations, and knock-offs. When the Official Preppy Handbook hit bookstore shelves, there were ads in Seventeen Magazine for Sporto's "duck shoes". The ad depicted a white goose wearing bright green rubber moccasins.

This was a time when L.L. Bean's Maine Hunting Shoe received all sorts of praise from independent sources (OPH, G. Bruce Boyer, The Wall Street Journal, etc. etc. etc.). Alfred Gingold lampooned the much praised Gumshoe by intentionally confusing the name "gumshoe" with a similar word used in old dime store novels to describe freelance detectives.

Why did the Sportos from the ad outsell the original Maine Hunting Shoe? Simple. There were more color choices, and people could walk into a local department store to buy them. Sporto even out marketed Chris Craft's version, which was officially recognized as Preppy footwear for women in the OPH.

Meanwhile, the Maine Hunting Shoe could only be purchased from Freeport Maine. Oh, I should mention that the catalog from the Boy Scouts of America also offered Bean's gumshoe, but no other styles were offered, and you still could not purchase them from a bricks and mortar store outside of Freeport. I checked with a local Scout Headquarters, and you definitely had to mail away for them.

In my entire life, I've not seen more than, say, maybe two of the L.L. Bean Field coats mentioned in the OPH. The only official Bean Field Jacket I've seen was in a store in Japan who specialized in American Trad imports. Then there was Russell Hathaway, who used to wear them at my old High School. A lot of his clothes came from Freeport. Why have so-called "Barn Coats" outsold the L.L. Bean originals? Simple. You can walk into many department stores to purchase the knock-off coat. Now Bean sells Barn Coats too. They even make reference to the fact that they are based on the widely imitated Field Coat of yore.

In my entire life, I've seen exactly four of Bean's signature Norwegian Sweaters. Two of the four are in my closet. Yet I've seen thousands of traditional Norwegian sweaters. In fact, they have been a wardrobe staple here in the Rockies for many generations. Some of the sweaters I've seen were probably hand knit by Norwegian immigrants. Why has the signature Bean Norwegian Sweater not caught on in Salt Lake City (and the Wasatch Front), when such a sweater would seem perfectly at home in most peoples' wardrobe? Simple. It's so much more hassle to mail order from Bean than it is to go shopping in some mall where you are likely to find a variety of sweaters you can touch, feel, try-on, and even admire
from a store window.

In my entire life, I've only seen a few official L.L. Bean chamois cloth shirts. In fact, the Bean model I owned really did improve with each washing, just as the OPH said it would. Yet many of the other chamois shirts I've owned possessed the same properties. In fact, I had one from Orvis with a pair of flying mallards embroidered on the pocket flap. What could possibly be more Trad than that?

In my entire life, I'm relatively sure that I've never seen an official pair of Bean's signature Blucher moccasins in person. I've owned a pair of lookalike shoes from G. H. Bass, and another pair from some nondescript company called something like "High Octane". Both shoes were identical to the official Bean "Ranger Moccasins" I owned, except for the sole (of course).

I have seen a lot of moccasins from Freeport over the years, but all of them bore green tags from a company called "Eastland". Eastland's shoes have sold fairly well out here in Utah from what I've seen. Lots of stylish folks have that green tag hanging off the back of their shoes. Everybody else has the Timberland tree logo embossed into the upper of their moccasins.

What's the difference between the Bean mocs and the others I've seen or owned? Convenience, pure and simple. Think about it for a moment. Most guys hate to shop. Don't a lot of men's casual shoes come from a mother or a spouse? Unless you are in some kind of long-distance relationship, that means your shoes were probably picked up in a store somewhere. In my own case, I bought both pairs of the non-L.L. Bean Bluchers from a sale rack on an impulse.

Much has been written about L.L. Bean over the years. G. Bruce Boyer wrote a few choice words about the Maine Hunting Shoe in his book "Elegance". You already know that the OPH says L.L.Bean is nothing less than Prep Mecca. Articles have been written in major newspapers, and in many fashion mags as well. Aflred Gingold's bestselling book "Items From Our Catalogue" was a direct lampoon of the L.L. Bean catalog, as was the follow up called "More Items From Our Catalogue". BTW. Mr. Gingold has kindly granted me permission to post scans from those books on the Trad Forum if I can ever find my old copies. Anyway, how successful must Bean have been in the eighties for their catalog to be lampooned like that? After all, people out west understood all the jokes, didn't they?

In my lifetime I've seen only a few hundred OCBDs from Brooks Brothers, not counting the ones on the shelves in an actual Brooks Brothers store. Yet I've seen more OCBDs than I could possibly enumerate. Fully one third of the OCBDs that I've ever seen had a polo player embroidered on the pocket.

Look, we could argue all week long about Betamax vs. VHS, or Mac vs. Wintel. The bottom line is this: If you allow people to share your profits, then those people have a stake in your success.

Bean's gumshoe has a very distinctive logo on the back, and has the only chain tread sole on the market. Bean's field coat has a very distinctive color that sets it apart from the garden variety barn coats of the world. Bean's Norwegian sweater is recognizable from across the room. As much as I like knowing about the "secret handshakes" of Trad, I don't think it is in the best interests of retailers that our cult remain so secretive and exclusive.

I say Bean should look to Ralph Lauren for an example of how to retool their product line. Also, they might look at how Orvis has increased their Trad offerings in recent years. Orvis is hardly a knock-off of Cabella's, REI, or Eddie Bauer.

You can go into nicer shops and buy official Orvis products-mostly fishing and hunting supplies. But you don't get the full product line unless you order by mail, phone, or internet. They may get less of the profit if I buy a fishing lure from Angler's Inn. But when was the last time you saw a catalog of hand-tied flies from Mary Orvis Marbury? Did you order from it, or just read it and admire those elegant hand-tied flies?

I say David Morgan should be selling Bean's stuff alongside their usual Filson Mackinaws and Tilley Hats. I say Bean ought to be promoting Coleman's line of retro camping gear (metal coolers and such). Bean ought to be selling unconstructed tweed sack jackets, and OCBDs with lobsters or beagles embroidered on the pocket. Bean should be selling green canvas Springbar Tents, and handmade canoes. Bean should be selling sweaters and caps form Pendleton Woolen Mills.

L.L. Bean ought to feature their signature items in every catalog. You shouldn't have to order a different catalog if you want to see their real field jacket, for example.

Tell the story of each item, the way J. Peterman does. Let other people tell the story where appropriate, as Mel and Patricia Ziegler did in the halcyon days of the Banana Republic catalog. Borrow a few choice pull-quotes from the many articles written about L.L. Bean over the years. Reduce the printing costs for the catalog by using less expensive paper. Peterman, Banana Republic, and Duluth Trading Company have all been successful at printing on uncoated papers
over the years, In each case, they've used watercolor art in lieu of photographs. Watercolor effects are easy to get from Photoshop plug-ins, as well as standalone organic media programs such as Studio Artist Pro. Shoot, you could even go with Black and White supplemental catalogs during the year, and one big catalog at Christmas. Send people to the web site for flashy pics that rotate and zoom.

And for heaven's sake, start selling that book about L. L. Bean. What was it called again? In Search of L. L. Bean? Should be a no-brainer that Bean should offer that book.


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

dphil--
A wonderfuly written post. Well done old sport, well done.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

dpihl said:


> Think about it for a moment. Most guys hate to shop.


Well certainly not us.


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## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

Danny said:


> Well certainly not us.


Absolutely right. I'm assuming all along that we are slightly abnormal. We like clothes, we like to shop, and we're willing to go to extremes when seeking out "the good stuff".


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

TradTeacher said:


> Perhaps they should look to for inspiration...


And don't forget this:

L.L. Bean 1933 catalog


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Great thread, and great posts.

The problem with big companies is they can't imagine being small again. So they keep pressing on with becoming bigger, better, and more broadly appealing. Maybe a "heritage label" would be good for Bean, offering only a couple dozen classic items. This would give their normal customers a special set of products to aim for, or move up to. I have one of their "weekend oxfords" which is nearly as good as BB, but it's buried in among all their same-as-everyone-else shirts.

DocD


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

wolfhound986 said:


> LL Bean should concentrate on their classic signature items and bring back a few that were discontinued, and make them well-made like they used to instead of bringing them back as a cheap watered down copies of what used to be. Lots of history with that brand.
> 
> They need to look ar Eddie Bauer and *not* do what they did. EB got lost during the 00s in pursing both the outdoors crowd and the business casual crowd. So neither their outdoors items nor their clothing are the best, and to be fair, not the worst, but they're now kind of nondistinct.


+1

Panzer


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## wolfhound986 (Jun 30, 2007)

Rocker said:


> Frankly, I think it's a sin that a company that tries to play off of its Maine heritage doesn't employ Maine residents to make its bluchers and moccasin style shoes (which they did not so long ago) and has those mode overseas as well. Bean has lost its heart - it used to be special to me - now, it's just a mass marketer of ordinary, made in China, middle class garb. I can get that anywhere.


Well said, I totally agree, it's just wrong to play up Maine heritage when you've just outsourced what used to be made in Maine. So it becomes a bland, watered down, mass market copy of itself.



Doctor Damage said:


> The problem with big companies is they can't imagine being small again. So they keep pressing on with becoming bigger, better, and more broadly appealing. Maybe a "heritage label" would be good for Bean, offering only a couple dozen classic items. This would give their normal customers a special set of products to aim for, or move up to. DocD


With the store openings, it obviously appears they don't want to stay small. I don't think they've entered Eddie Bauer territory yet, but they are starting to.

I like the idea of a heritage label with a dozen classic items, like those chamois shirts, Norwegian sweaters, and handsewn camp mocs. The sales of regular items can help pay for production of those select items, right?

Perhaps an LL Bean heritage label = BB Golden Fleece?


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

*LL Bean PR Announcement*

*Company reports solid growth and employee bonuses*

FREEPORT, Maine, March 9 /PRNewswire/ -- L.L.Bean announced today its
fiscal 2006 business results as well as its intention to pay performance
bonuses to employees.
(Logo: )
For the 2006 fiscal year ending February 25, 2007, L.L.Bean reported
record annual net sales of $1.54 billion, a 4.6 % increase over 2005. The
company also announced that its Board of Directors approved a cash award of
7.5 % of annual pay to eligible employees, a payout of approximately $25.5
million. An additional $8.8 million will be allocated to the pension plan,
keeping the plan fully funded.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

LL Bean is a privately owned business that does not report financials so we can't know how profitable it is. But all indications suggest that they do ok and they prefer steady growth to the ups and downs of fads. Sure, they have no youth appeal to speak of , but lets face it, A&F and the like are going to end up on the ashheap next to Chess King. When today's youth are tomorrows soccer moms, they can buy from Bean. 

Given that, I doubt they are likely to change much of anything radical. J. Peterman tried to grow big as an upscale mail-order casual outfitter. They went bankrupt. As a business, I think their biggest problem is that they don't outsource quite as well as LE who seem to get a slightly better grade of 3rd world cheapies. But that is easy to say, probably harder to do. Also, they might want to offer some tailored items like LE, but probably not.


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## 3button Max (Feb 6, 2006)

*LL*

the Bean catalog used to be amazing to me c 1980. They still have a few great iconic items camp mocs, bluchers , maybe the chamois shirt.(all of which are probably 2nd tier to quoddy and the like)
I think at that time they were a little inside, ads in the New yorker etc. I am curious to try weekend ocbd but not in any hurry.


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## Congresspark (Jun 13, 2007)

Just off in the Subaru (no kidding!) to the grand opening of the LLB storefront in Albany NY. They were certainly packing them in. Turned out to be a great place for getting fall school stuff for the kids, and I enjoyed actually getting a look at things I'd wondered about in the catalog.

I've been wearing their mocs, chamois cloth shirts, boots, sweaters (Shetland and Norwegian) pretty much constantly for longer than I'm prepared to admit, and I don't see myself stopping as long as the quality and guarantee are in place. Vernacular trad. And the free shipping and points with their credit card are useful, as are the sales.

BTW, according to the catalog, you can get the dress chinos cuffed. Haven't tried them yet.


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## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

rl1856 said:


> If you were given the opportunity, how would you assist LL Bean in rebranding their image to appeal to a younger demographic ?
> 
> In 1985, more than 30% of their customers were under the age of 35, now that figure is 4%.
> 
> ...


What they would have to do to appeal to the "younger demographic" would not please folks on this forum... Come on LLB, let's kick out that last 4%!


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Regarding Subaru cars, somewhere I learned that most of their buyers/drivers are politically conservative & often Republican. So they are generally _not_ owned by the tree-hugging, root-munching hippies that one might expect...

DocD


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> Regarding Subaru cars, somewhere I learned that most of their buyers/drivers are politically conservative & often Republican. So they are generally _not_ owned by the tree-hugging, root-munching hippies that one might expect...
> 
> DocD


Interesting, though that doesn't seem to be the case in my neighborhood, or in the northwest where some of our friends live (Portland and Seattle).

Also, buyblue.com lists Bean as one of the "bluest" companies.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Doctor Damage said:


> Regarding Subaru cars, somewhere I learned that most of their buyers/drivers are politically conservative & often Republican.


Most people I see driving Subies certainly don't fit into that category, but I do see a lot of liberal types driving them.

Maybe we should get a thread going about stereotypical drivers of the different brands? Probably something for the Interchange though.

Brian


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

rl1856 said:


> If you were given the opportunity, how would you assist LL Bean in rebranding their image to appeal to a younger demographic ?
> 
> In 1985, more than 30% of their customers were under the age of 35, now that figure is 4%.
> 
> ...


I've only bought a handful of items from L.L. Bean, but I would like to see it move in the direction that Lands' End went in a few years ago. I don't expect to see L.L. Bean suits, but I definitely think there is room for more upscale clothing and more preppier styles.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> Regarding Subaru cars, somewhere I learned that most of their buyers/drivers are politically conservative & often Republican. So they are generally _not_ owned by the tree-hugging, root-munching hippies that one might expect...
> 
> DocD


Really? Not at all the way I see it in these parts, but may be so elsewhere in the US. Are you sure they weren't talking about their dog beds? LOL

I like Bean just fine the way it is. We still buy 'em up, especially in the fall and winter. I _would_ like to see more Hencho in USA products, though.


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## anselmo1 (Dec 22, 2006)

I personally feek that LL Bean should relate to its strong points of outdoor apparel, boots, moccasins, back packs, flannel shirts, jackets, winter clothing etc. As far as going upscale like Land End, I definitely wouldn't like to see it. LL Bean and Land End are really two different entities geared toward different demographics. Could you see Lands End trying to sell a canoe or LL Bean selling $895.00 cashmere sport coats?

To me, Lands End clothing has been on a downward slide ever since Sears purchased them. Quantity has replaced quality at Lands End. Unfortunately, finding something made in the USA or for that matter at LL Bean is a thing of the past.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> Great thread, and great posts.
> 
> The problem with big companies is they can't imagine being small again. So they keep pressing on with becoming bigger, better, and more broadly appealing. Maybe a "heritage label" would be good for Bean, offering only a couple dozen classic items. This would give their normal customers a special set of products to aim for, or move up to. I have one of their "weekend oxfords" which is nearly as good as BB, but it's buried in among all their same-as-everyone-else shirts.
> 
> DocD


Excellent idea, Doc. The right 'prescription', I think!


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

I found some historical prices for some LL Bean Classics in a study that a Chicago GSB economist did. Here are the historical prices and what they would be in 2007 dollars (adjusted using the Urban CPI)


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Nathan Detroit said:


> What they would have to do to appeal to the "younger demographic" would not please folks on this forum... Come on LLB, let's kick out that last 4%!


Probably another 1-2 years will take care of it naturally.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

In constant dollar terms, Bean's prices have stayed about the same. 
1) Whatever cost savings they get from importing goods haven't been passed along to the customer.
2) The Bean customer base is richer today than they were 20 years ago. People could probably afford to pay for higher quality gear. Would they though in the face of lower prices at Eddie Bauer and LE?


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## dandypauper (Jun 10, 2007)

well, one good thing I noticed, after looking at the 1933 catalog, is that some of their prices have come down. the plaid work shirt on the last page, is 3.75 shipped. in 1933 dollars, that's like $53!


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## Trapper Lake (Jun 19, 2007)

bean still serves a purpose for me. many of their classics are still available and of good quality.....bean boots/mocs, chamois shirts, lined chinos and jeans, down jackets and vests, double l cotton sweaters, stowaway rain coats, the original field coat (or hunter's original field coat if you want a more rigid duckcloth), maine guide shirt, irish fisherman's sweater, tote bags, rucksacks, cresta hikers, all of their handsewn mocs, ect. ect........still amazing quality for the price. as far as their reliance on overseas manufacturing, that's an issue i've become almost indifferent to. don't get me wrong, i still appreciate it when companies like bills and mercer keep their products usa made, but i think this is a trend that really can't be stopped given the state of the world economy....globalization is a reality and it's not all bad. the common argument i hear is that asian/latin american-made clothing is of inferior quality.....but i've had many experiences to counter that assumption. it depends largely on quality standards, and bean consistently puts out a tough product. 

not the bean of yesteryear, but that's to be expected when a company outgrows its own charm.


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## joeyzaza (Dec 9, 2005)

While most of us would like to see Bean go back to 1985, the reality is this would probably result in declining sales. If they want to grow, they need to keep a mix of the old and move up to a look of today. Kind of like brooks brothers did and kind of why most of us do not like the wrinkle free brooks brothers of today.


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## PersianMonarchs (Dec 7, 2005)

Trapper, that's one of the best posts I have seen. Well done, well done!


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

*In defense of Bean*

A few things about LL Bean:

1. This is still a family business. Leon Gorman is still the chairman of the Company - he is the Grandson of LL Bean. The company appointed it's first non-family CEO in 2001 (Chris McCormick) when Leon retired - he came up through the business (started there in 1983). The family is still heavily involved in the company and they are involved in Environmental protection and community affairs in Maine - they are serious outdoorsmen. 
*Lands End is a mega-chain owned by Sears - they have totally lost their Cache - Ditto to Eddie Bauer, etc..

2. LL Bean's retail store expansion plan is focused on regions where there are popular outdoor activities close by. If you have been in the Freeport store, you'll realize that they do have a real focus on Hunting, Fishing and Hiking - they offer classes and camps and sell top-end gear. Their expansion plan, if executed properly, can help Bean to become more than just a Northeast / mid-atlantic specialty retailer.

3. Their return policy is still the best in the business - they stand behind their product 100%. Employees seem to like working in their stores and take pride in the company's independence and heritage (i've only been in a few stores - so not a good sample).

Now I agree that their quality has gone down as they have shipped production overseas for many clothing items but I think that this is true of almost all retailers in the US. For what it's worth - this have become a Branding game. Patagonia (aka Pata-Gucci) is a top-end brand but most of their stuff is made overseas - their quality control is high and their marketing is superb - this is what I think Bean needs to work towards.

I would recommend that they come up with an LL Bean 'Vintage' line of clothing, etc... These items could be made in the USA or Europe - and they could charge up for them. I would buy this stuff - many of you would as well.

In summary, I totally agree with the posts I've read on this thread - The Bean needs some serious work. However, I do believe that LL Bean is one of the few great American Apparel / Outdoor companies we have left. It is worth saving - I agree that we should email customer service - or Chris McCormick. I couldn't find an email address for him on their website..


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

septa said:


> ...with a dash of folksiness a la the Vermont Country store.
> 
> Current LL Bean is stodgy, not in an endearing way, but the worst sort of bland, inoffensive, suburban soccer mom way.
> 
> ...


I agree with you and AlanC.

- Prominent classics
- Retro catalog
- Get rid of the huge amount of boring stuff. I can get a ribbed t-shirt anywhere. Eddie Bauer should remain the boring, bland store. I'd rather see unique but classic things at LL Bean.

For women's clothing, I've seen a few writeups in magazines about the French Sailor's Shirt, which is a good example of something that's different, distinctive and wearable, but not too trendy. They can just keep offering this, like the old Norwegian sweater, and people will still buy these in ten years.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

*23 year old LL Bean lover.*

My younger brother actually turned me on to LL Bean less than a year ago. He just turned 21 and I just turned 23. In high school I was a Ralph Lauren guy, had the hat, pants, polo shirts in all colors, button downs in all patterns. In college, I was lucky enough to be only 15min from a Brooks Brothers outlet so I switched to BB (also because I found their non-iron shirts amazing and I liked the lack of logo on their shirts). I put on some college weight so I can't fit in my Polo shirts anymore and have yet to replace them.

I've always been a value seeking person and after I graduated I started seeing my brother's LL Bean stuff so I looked into it and could not believe the prices. I still like the quality and selection of BB shirts better but not living close to the outlet (2 button downs for $75!) anymore makes them too expensive for me. I have since purchased khakis, cords, several OBDCs, several sweaters, and bean boots. I have tried at least 8 different brands of khakis including RL, Gap, banana Republic, Bill's Khakis, Wrangler Reata, Docker's. Bean's classic fit khakis are the absolute best fit (lookswise and feel wise) and best price. Also love that they have 29" inseams - I'd always have to buy 32x30s and get them tailored.

I like Bean's tailored fit shirts for more casual untucked (which I think appeals to the younger crowd) but the difference between traditional and tailored fit (in the same sizes) is far too great in my opinion. The traditional billows while the tailored is borderline too small and doesn't stay tucked. It'd be nice to have something in between so that I don't have to get both tailored and traditional versions of the same shirt.

I'd also like to see more patterns such as tattersalls, windowpanes, ginghams, etc. They don't have very many choices. I really like the patterns that Vineyard Vines puts out but I wouldn't pay $100 for a shirt. I feel like LLBean could get more of the young crowd by expanding their patterns. The ones I mentioned I think are very traditional and it seems like many brands have their own shirts in those patterns so I don't think it would be like LL Bean is copying anyone else


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