# Ode to the bit loafer (pics)...



## Doctor Damage

In this thread I am going to post a bunch of photos of bit loafers, of various brands and various types. I will start first with Gucci (obviously), then move on to others. The focus will be on classic bit loafers, and their close variants. I will also post some fake Gucci shoes, so that anyone who is buying on eBay will have a better idea of what to avoid.

To our members I ask that you reserve me the first half-dozen or so posts, so I can cover a few basic points.

DD


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## Doctor Damage

The classic Gucci bit loafer has undergone an evolution, probably under the influence of Tom Ford's tenure at the company. Bit loafers from the early 90s and before were designated as below.

Below left is the 110-0009/3, and below right the 110-0010/3. Note the change in the shape of the toe box from left to right. Although not visible, the heel changes from a high but wedged heel in the 0009 to a high flat heel in the 0010.



The 110-0010 model seems to have continued largely unchanged as the following models.

Below is the 015937.



Below is the 015938, the current model, and the only one of the above still in production. I will post larger images of this model, but the photos below allow comparison with the preceding models above.



Personally, I suspect Ford's influence begins with the 110-0010 model with the blockier toe box and higher heels. This is essentially the modern "classic Gucci", as the model number changes are just that -- the design has not changed to the current model.

DD


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## Doctor Damage

Here is a great view of the 015938.


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## Doctor Damage

Here are some good images of the basic Gucci classic loafers. This makes comparing the colours of the materials an easy matter.

015938




016343


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## Doctor Damage

Here is a set of images, from an eBay seller.

This is the 110-0009, the precursor to the current model of Gucci bit loafer. I really love the older look of these models (long gone), with the lower heel and more rounded toe.



These are the 015938, new and used.






These are the 016343 models.




Next I shall post a few more pics of the lug sole version, then I shall post several recent Gucci models which look like the classic loafer, but were actually one-season-only models.

DocD


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## Tom Rath

I can respect that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can respect that everyone has different opinions when it comes to shoes and clothes. I can respect that variety is the spice of life. But for the life of me I just dont get these shoes. They are a perfect storm of flash, poor construction and unusual design. To each his own I suppose...


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## Topsider

No disrespect intended, but isn't there some sort of lower age limit as to when one can get away with wearing these? Whatever it is, I haven't reached it yet. 

Nice job with the research and photos, however. And hey, they're in the OPH, so they're alright with me.


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## familyman

I know I shouldn't like these. I do though. Especially the older ones. The bit should be too much flash but it isn't. Even with lugs they look ok. I love the toe seam. They just have good balance or something. 
I feel dirty. I need to go look at some Aldens to make myself feel clean again.


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## septa

There should be no shame in liking these shoes. I think much of the aversion to the house of Gucci, and to similar brands like Charvet and Hermes, is to what they have come to mean not what they once meant. As I understand it, in the era of high trad (50s-60s) these brands may have been a bit eccentric, bordering on louche, but hardly worthy of outrage. I think we might have the same reaction to sack suits and Aldens if they were favored by eurotwits. 
In one of his novels, Auchincloss dresses his main character, an arch-WASP, in Charvet. Can't remember which one. Carefully brought into one's wardrobe the Gucci can be just the ticket.


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## Speas

The old model is remarkably more attractive and balanced than the new. 

I also don't get the mud-tired SUV model.


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## mcarthur

Doctor Damage,
Thank you for your outstanding efforts on this project


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## Doctor Damage

mcarthur said:


> Doctor Damage, Thank you for your outstanding efforts on this project


Lots more stuff to come. LOTS more. I am intending to also post the various competitors who offer good, classic bit loafers as alternatives to Gucci, including the Alden versions.

*Septa*, I believe you are right. Gucci has become so closely associated with bling-bling crap, and rap/gangsters, and gay flash, such that more modest folks have an automatic reaction of horror when hearing the name. But once upon a time, only the wealthy and well-dressed wore the shoes, even though the price was never outrageous. And the old ones were really well constructed (photos will prove that, stay tuned).

DocD


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## Duck

I have a black pair of Cole Haan's and an older brown pair of Gucci's. I absolutely love both pairs but I always wear them in more casual outfits. The Gucci's are the most comfortable shoes that I own.


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## Doctor Damage

Time for some super mega big images of the 015938 and 016343 models. These are from Jap/Korean websites, so it's possible they are fakes, but if so they capture the look perfectly (I believe these are real -- the Gucci fakes are pretty obvious).

----------------

015938





----------------

016343


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## Doctor Damage

Here are some recent Gucci models which strongly resemble the classic model, but with slight variations. The group of three below is the 015938, 157440, and 155182. Note that the second two were introduced in 2006 and seem to be revivals of older Gucci models, at least in terms of the proportions.



Here are two views of the 157440 model, which is still available from Gucci and looks to be a long-term addition to their "classic" range. Personally, I really like this model.



Below is another recent model, possibly 2005 only (my records show). This is the 115316 model, and came in black and brown, leather & suede, and both leather and rubber lug soles. Note the long pointed toes, longer heels, and double rows of stitching on the "beefroll". On the sole, note the 8 nails in the heel (the classic models have only 4 nails).





Here are two more views of the 115316 models.




Later I shall post more photos of all of the models above, from Jap/Korean sources and from eBay.

This probably seems a lot of useless trivia, but for those who might be interested in buying from eBay, it is worthwhile being aware of the various models, so you know what you are looking at.

DocD


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## Doctor Damage

That's pretty much it. I have a lot more photos of all of the models posted above, plus the variants made of the Gucci canvas/cloth -- if anyone is keen on these (or any other models), please message me and I will provide images.

For those who are eBaying, I will post some fake Gucci shoes later in this thread, but I recommend studying the photos above as a reference. I will post many used/vintage Gucci shoes, and competitors too, for reference. If you know your size, you can sometimes find some stellar bit loafers on eBay, often never worn.

I will also post some of the competitors, including Alden, Allen-Edmonds, Cole-Haan, Church's, and Peter Huber.

So...let's start posting whatever weird bit loafers we know about, or have spotted on eBay, and we can grow this thread into a useful (and fun) collection of images like the "tassel loafer" thread. For those who own bit loafers (of any brand), please post your comments, particularly regarding fit vis-a-vis common shoes such as Weejuns, etc., for those who are buying on eBay.

Regards,
DocD


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## mcarthur

DD,
Those are great pictures. Again thank you for all efforts


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## LeatherSOUL

Alden Flex Bit Loafer, 5726F.


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## jml90

I have a pair of Footjoy bit loafers in tan which I love and usually wear once a week. They resemble the shape of the Alden full strap or my J&M tassels.


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## EastVillageTrad

I have the Alden Cape Cod bit loafer in black calfskin, wear it with a navy blazer, suits and even formal wear. 

I can't ever bring myself to don a Gucci anything or my stomach would turn.

These Aldens aren't a bad shoe.


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## familyman

LeatherSOUL said:


> Alden Flex Bit Loafer, 5726F.


I really like the proportion of these shoes. What last are they on? They just seem shaped a bit different than other alden loafers I've seen. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the bit. Something about metal decorations seems silly. Of course I LOVE almost all brouging for decoration so I'm a little inconsistent with my feelings on decoration.


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## LeatherSOUL

familyman said:


> I really like the proportion of these shoes. What last are they on? They just seem shaped a bit different than other alden loafers I've seen. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the bit. Something about metal decorations seems silly. Of course I LOVE almost all brouging for decoration so I'm a little inconsistent with my feelings on decoration.


They're on the Van last, same as the LHS. Flex construction, soft calf. Very comfortable!


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## Doctor Damage

More bit loafers for the Alden fans. Below is the H467, apparently. I like the pebble-grain leather, but the vamp is too low for my tastes.



This pair was on eBay a while ago, the size is 11C. The leather is nicely aged and looks beautiful.


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## 3button Max

*loafer damage*

enjoying these pix and postings.
I remember wanting a pair of Gucci black loafers 20 years ago- but didnt take the plunge.
the current offering by Gucci seems too eurocentric for me-somewhat off the trad radar- I suppose if I encountered a vintage pair I'd consider them but only in black
just cant imagine 20 year old Gucci shoes have held up all that well-the alden and allen-edmund current line is more to my liking-but again black, the other colors just dont cut it.


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## A.Squire

Have you stumbled across any Barker bit close-ups?


*as always, enjoying the photos.


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## Doctor Damage

Alden H468 from eBay, size 12EEE.


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## Khnelben

*The really modern ones...*

have toes that are more pointed, the models with the pressed "GGs".

I have a pair like that in very dark navy/black - they have the following numbers on them - 23527 and 147825.

I am still getting used to the pressure on the hell (and it's not a good sensation) - you always hear of the comfort of Gucci's, but I am thinking of taking these to the shoe-maker guy.

They also have a great model in suede with beige/blue and navy patches this season. Really nice, I am thinking on buying these.

Andrey


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## Lucky Strike

Here's a pointed Gucci model, in an appropriate eurotrash setting, the shoe is probably around three years old:


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## PittDoc

Lucky Strike said:


> Here's a pointed Gucci model, in an appropriate eurotrash setting, the shoe is probably around three years old:


Love it! Always helpful to see shoes in-context. Next time Mrs. PittDoc dons some red boots I'll know what to wear.:icon_smile_big:


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## Doctor Damage

Alden H466 (dark brown soft calf) and H467 (black soft calf). Not sure where I found these pics, they must be that discount Alden dealer in the US.


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## Doctor Damage

Here's more non-Gucci bit loafers. The first is a pair of Sebagos bit loafers which must be extremely rare.



The next two pairs are Bruno Maglis. The first is an old style called "Kirby", while the second is a new pair called "Bruno".


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## Patrick06790

Looking at all these I conclude that I could do it. I won't, but I could.

I remain firmly against the tassel and/or kiltie.


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## Doctor Damage

Patrick06790 said:


> Looking at all these I conclude that I could do it. I won't, but I could.


I'm assembling a bunch of photos of men wearing bit loafers, so we will be able to see the context. It will be easier to judge.

DocD


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## jml90

Doctor Damage said:


> I'm assembling a bunch of photos of men wearing bit loafers, so we will be able to see the context. It will be easier to judge.
> 
> DocD


I'll see if I can get get some of Dennis Farina on LAw and ORder wearing them. I know he had suede and black ones aswell as Belgian loafers.


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## spinlps

Recently on ebay: Brooks Brothers Alligator Bit Loafers. Hand Made in Italy.


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## Khnelben

*Doctor Damage ...*

it would be good to have pictures of bit loafers showing their versatile nature - both in the business environment (normal business and more high-level execs) and casual surroundings (South of France etc.).

Andrey


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## Doctor Damage

Thanks for the BB photos, spinlps. The BB website photo makes the shoes look cheesy, but the eBay photos show the very sophisticated Italian shape of the shoes (nice!).

DocD


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## tripreed

A.Squire said:


> Have you stumbled across any Barker bit close-ups?
> 
> *as always, enjoying the photos.


Saw this one on Ebay


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## Doctor Damage

Well spotted, Trip. Here's the rest of the eBay photos for the Squire (note the nails in the sole...). Not too keen on the black leather, but I've seen them photographed in brown suede, which is very nice.


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## Old Brompton

Those Barker Blacks look atrocious, IMHO. It looks as if someone chopped off the toes...


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## AlanC

tripreed said:


> Saw this one on Ebay


"Aaaaarrrr! I want me shoes back! "


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## Doctor Damage

Some clever fellow _always_ drags out the pirate reference...rum, sodomy, and the lash (no wait...that was the Royal Navy).

*Old Brompton*, I agree that the Barker Black "Wolfe" loafers in black are rather bizarre, but I think they look better in brown leather & snuff suede (see below). Anyone?


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## Doctor Damage

Classic pair of Church's bit loafers, size 9M. I think these are stunning shoes, with perfect proportions (to my eye) and clearly solid construction.


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## tripreed

Doctor Damage said:


> *Old Brompton*, I agree that the Barker Black "Wolfe" loafers in black are rather bizarre, but I think they look better in brown leather & snuff suede (see below). Anyone?


Come now, you wouldn't actually wear those would you?


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## Doctor Damage

tripreed said:


> Come now, you wouldn't actually wear those would you?


Ummm...yes?

Okay, you called my bluff. Maybe in the brown suede, but never in the black leather.

Anyway, here's a very convincing Gucci competitor called Peter Huber. They have a website, which I don't have handy, but in any case they don't seem to update the site very often. But the shoes are very nice.


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## Old Brompton

Those Peter Huber loafers are very nice, thanks for sharing! Aware of the name, didn't know they offered this classic style. BTW I don't see this model offered on the PeterHuber.com website, but I have found them offered for sale at Perlis.com.


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## Doctor Damage

These are perhaps the most true-to-the-theme copycats out there, the Allend Edmonds "Bruzzano". These are my personal favourites, as they evoke the shape and proportions of older Gucci bit loafers. Unfortunately, they only come in black calf now, but in the past they were offered in black suede and brown calf (perhaps more).

The first pair below is black calf, size 8.5D (below left), while the next pair is in black suede, size unknown (below right).



This pair is brown calf, sized 11D.


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## Doctor Damage

Allen Edmonds "Bruzzano" in black suede.



Brown calf (apparently...although it looks like burgundy).



For comparison, the two below are sized 9EEE (left) and 10.5D (right).


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## jml90

Light tan Footjoy full strap bit loafer from my personal collection


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## Doctor Damage

I see that the price of the classic Gucci bit loafers (015938) has risen from $395 a year ago, to $410 a few months ago, and today $430. Which makes the Alden or Cole-Haan or Allen Edmonds bit loafers a lot more appealing.

DocD


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## Doctor Damage

This image below is from the history section of the Gucci website. The accompanying text reads: "During the 1950's the trademark striped webbing, which was derived from the saddle girth, becomes a great success. The mocassin with metal bit is introduced and becomes another icon product."



Could this be the original bit loafer? The heel seems a bit tall for the period...but I wasn't there. Does anyone know better?

DocD


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## jml90

Doc what do you think of the ones I posted?


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## 3button Max

*historical Guccis*

I would bet those Gucci w/ big heel are 1970s-just guessing since Ihave pair of thrifted black Bass weejun tassel loafers-and they had a big heel-great local shoemaker solved that-ditto on a pair of Johnston Murphy black wingtips-lower the 70s heel and you have a great shoe(actually i could use the height but the big heel is just ugly.) cobbler thought mid 70s

I suppose mid 70s is vintage to some-I think of vintage as pre dating my existence.

I was impressed by Allen Edmunds and Alden bit loafers-they looked more substantial than Gucci.

Damage -I am enjoying the pictorials on bit and tassel loafers-

max


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## upr_crust

*To add my two "bits" to the discussion . . .*

. . . (pardon the pun, I have a weakness for them).

My Cole-Haan horsebit loafers, in black suede (with a small historical claim - purchased at the Cole-Haan store in the World Trade Center a month before 09/11)

https://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=01717aka6.jpg


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## Doctor Damage

*jml90*: I like those fine, especially the colour, although my personal preference is for the heavy folded-over leather around the toe. BTW, what is Footjoy? a brand, or a retailer?

*upr-crust*: Those Cole-Haans are the "Bartlett" model, which I will post with other C-H shoes as soon as possible.

*3button*: I also suspected those were 70s shoes in the photo. I've seen some like that on eBay and they just look 70s. Probably some Gucci office assistant e-mailed the photo to the web designer, without making any effort to fact check.

So I plan to post some Cole-Haan images soon, then post a bunch of photos of men actually wearing the shoes, which should help us visualize how bit loafers look "on the man".

DocD


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## jml90

Doctor Damage said:


> *jml90*: I like those fine, especially the colour, although my personal preference is for the heavy folded-over leather around the toe. BTW, what is Footjoy? a brand, or a retailer?


Footjoy is a brand mostly known for thier golf shoes, but make some AE quality welted dress shoes. I got these for $25+s&h on the bay


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## Doctor Damage

Time for the Cole-Haan "Bennett". Here's the original versions, which they sold for many years, adding only the black calf with silver bit, and including the lug sole version.



Here's the original lug sole version.



Here's more recent versions in a solf calf.



Unfortunately, they only come in two widths now (medium and wide) and the suede styles seem to have been dropped. I suppose individual C-H stores may still have some older stock, and those I would buy -- I regret not doing so a few years ago when they still offered them in lots of styles. The latest calf leathers look to be the crappier shiny leather that C-H has been using these days, but I can't confirm that.

I saw a man wearing the brown suede with gold bit style on Spadina Avenue in Toronto with grey pants and a Barbour quilt, and he looked outstanding; it's a great look.

DocD


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## Doctor Damage

Cole-Haan "Assante" in white calf, now no longer available. This model looks identical to the "Bennett", so I am not sure why they would sell both, except that the Assante was under the Bragano label.

Here's a larger photo of the "Bartlett", the model that *upr_crust* posted above. Note the squarer bit (reminiscent of Ferragamo) and the higher vamp.

DocD


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## jml90

I want brown suede bit loafers...


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## spinlps

Doctor Damage said:


> Here's a larger photo of the "Bartlett", the model that *upr_crust* posted above. Note the squarer bit (reminiscent of Ferragamo) and the higher vamp.
> DocD


Speaking of Ferragamo, when can we expect your detailed write up?


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## Doctor Damage

jml90 said:


> I want brown suede bit loafers...


So do I.
I've got some photos that will make you want them even more.



spinlps said:


> Speaking of Ferragamo, when can we expect your detailed write up?


I will post some Ferragamo photos at some point.

DocD


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## jml90

AE bits in black are on sale for $150


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## Doctor Damage

More images of Cole-Haan "Bennett" models.


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## bfad51

That first photo posted is from a late 1970s Gucci horsebit loafers
believe me on this one, I had a half dozen of those puppies with the higher heal. I got my first pair of Gucci loafers in the fall of 1968 for my senior year in
high school. My mother bought my twin brother and I each a pair when we first went into the Gucci NY store on Fifth Ave. They were selling for $67.00 which was a lot of money back then (or at least to buy to 17 year olds) .
The shoes were only offered in Black Brown, Blue, Dull Red ,White. (white was awsome) . The shoes were offered in only the classic style which was reintroduced in the US in 2000. They also had he Florence model but didnt sell that in the US only in Europe.(it is available upon request from the Fifth ave store.) 
Gucci first came out with the Ribbon model in 1979 Green, Red, Green
When Tom Ford took over the company he totally did away with the classic
styles, and since his leaving the company the new designer has hit the 
old archives and has brought back some of the classic models. (only the NY store has the classic model in stock) they have the gold horse bit on them.
all the Saks Neimans, Bergdorfs and Barneys stores only sell the round toe models with the silver bit.


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## bfad51

Does anyone know who makes the white horse bit loafers
the ones that are pictured with the black and tan. Those whites look
just like the Originals from the early 60s...(Palm beach , Palm Springs look)


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## jml90

bfad51 said:


> Does anyone know who makes the white horse bit loafers
> the ones that are pictured with the black and tan. Those whites look
> just like the Originals from the early 60s...(Palm beach , Palm Springs look)


Cole Haan _made_ them.


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## Old Brompton

Thanks for posting the beautiful photos of bit loafer porn. I find this thread really satisfying. Have been wearing bit loafers in one form or another since the '80s. They were part of our 'uniform' in mid- to late-'80s London. Anyway, does anyone have the scoop on the bit loafers offered by Dann...?


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## bfad51

DocD is right on, on almost ever fact. Except they still make the original classic loafer it has a little higher heal than the newer shoe that came out last year 2006 the ones with the ribbons) which has a low heal, The higher heal with the round toe and the silver bit buckle sells at Barney, Bergdorfs, Neimans Saks.. This shoe has the wider toe and runs a wider than the other classics. The longer toed classic Gucci that you showed pictures of is the 
Florence model. Again, the original classic Gucci loafer is only offered in Brown and Black (model no. 110-00913) and can only be bought in NYC or Beverly Hills.


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## bfad51

Just checking DocD pictures, the 110-009/3 is not long gone, its alive and well
and you can still get that shoe in the NYC or Bevelry Hills stroe for $450.00
The model 015938 is the round toe that has the higher stacked heal
if you buy that shoe in the NYGucci store they will check the horse bit
for you from silver to gold. 
the Red green ribbon that was re introduced last year is style 157440 
has the lower heal. ( a lift can be put in the heal and it will look just like the famous Gucci of the early 80s which I have been begging Gucci to reintroduce.
I had that shoe in a Cognac leather (not shiny) and it was the best of the best...


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## Doctor Damage

Great info, gfad51. This is exactly what I was hoping one of our members would come up with! I'm glad to see that some of the more classic models have re-appeared and seem to be sticking around in the Gucci catalogue.

My personal preference is for the the ones with the red-green-red ribbon under the bit.

DocD


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## Brideshead

Great pictures, Doctor. I am very new to the bit loafer and only have one pair at present. I have to admit they are Italian made Boss black lable in a black suede - as below:

























They do have that leather that 'feels like silk' and are extremely comfortable. Would anyone know who makes them for Boss? I am not sure if they are current - I got them summer 2005.


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## Doctor Damage

Brideshead said:


> Great pictures, Doctor. I am very new to the bit loafer and only have one pair at present. I have to admit they are Italian made Boss black lable in a black suede - as below:
> 
> They do have that leather that 'feels like silk' and are extremely comfortable. Would anyone know who makes them for Boss? I am not sure if they are current - I got them summer 2005.


I guarantee they are no longer available. Once one gets beyond Alden and AE (and some of the British brands) then shoe models get replaced almost every season. The turnover in models is near-total. You must buy them as soon as you see them, don't wait to save up money or whatever. Usually by the time I see a pair of shoes and think "hey, those are great, I want a pair" then they are not longer available to order in my size.

Most of the famous Italian brands have one or maybe two models they keep year to year, but everything else changes. For Gucci it's the 015938 (or has been for a while), for Ferragamo it's the Diego/Faro, etc.

DocD


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## Doctor Damage

Salvatore Ferragamo bit loafers, in order: Faro, Gear, Diego II. These are the classic designs which keep sticking around in the Ferragamo catalogue (I have an old photo to prove that).



Here's images of the current Ferragamo Faro and Diego models.



I believe the Diego replaced the Geneva (below), which was the traditional Ferragamo bit loafer with lug soles. It appears to be nothing more than a name change and a slightly different rear counter.



DocD


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## jml90

I can't tell if I love the Ferragamos or hate them.


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## Khnelben

*I also ...*

believe there is another very famous Ferragamo design of the horse-bits ?

Andrey


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## Doctor Damage

This model is the Ferragamo "Cancun", which was introduced last summer and seems to be retained for at least another season. I really like this model, and almost bought a pair last fall. The brown suede is particularly nice.


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## jml90

Now those I like. And you DD go straight to hell for posting them!


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## Doctor Damage

Ferragamo "Diego" lug sole loafers, size 10.5EE.


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## 16128

I like the Cancun. The Diego look too trendy.


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## Doctor Damage

Now, as promised, below are several photos of men in real-life situations wearing bit loafers. These photos should help illustrate the good and bad aspects of this type of shoe.

First we have George Hamilton wearing a pair of Gucci's (left) and Ferragamo's (right) with suits in suit-appropriate settings.



Second is Tab Hunter wearing Gucci bit loafers with a tuxedo.



Third is two men flanking...well, a woman in a red dress. The man on the left is wearing Gucci's with a suit, while the man on the right (partially visible) is wearing unidentified bit loafers with more casual clothing.



Next I shall post photos of bit loafers worn in casual settings with casual clothes.

DocD


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## Patrick06790

Violently subjective impressions from a man who is wearing an aluminum foil helmet:

George Hamilton pulls it off. He always looks like he's enjoying himself.

I'm not hip enough to formal wear to have an informed opinion but the guy in the tux looks okay. People wear those evening pump things, don't they? Doesn't seem like much of a stretch to wear bit loafers.

The guy on the Lady in Red's right looks smarmy, but I bet he looks that way all the time.


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## jml90

Patrick06790 said:


> George Hamilton pulls it off. He always looks like he's enjoying himself.


Yeah I agree with that. I think a suit is the most formal you can wear bit loafers with but, I think black bals are the only thing appropriate with a tux maybe bits in a more casual event.

EDIT: Trying with no avail to get a pic of Dennis Farina in bits.


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## Doctor Damage

Here are bit loafers being worn with more casual clothing, and casual settings. First up (again) is George Hamilton in Gucci's. Please avert your gaze from the green leather jacket, and notice the bit loafers and jeans. I particularly like the brown suede shoes with the sports jacket in the third photo.



Second is Gore Vidal in Ferragamo loafers, at home.



Third is two photos from Scott Schuman's travels in NYC. Everyone on this forum should remember the first fellow, but the second one may have been overlooked. Red suede Gucci loafers!



...and last but not least, a photo of Derrick Miller (of Barker Black) and his brother photographed by Scott Schuman. Look closely and you'll notice that Miller's brother on the right is wearing the Barker Black "Wolfe" crossed-bones loafers in brown suede.



DocD


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## spinlps

Doctor Damage said:


> Here are bit loafers being worn with more casual clothing, and casual settings. First up (again) is George Hamilton in Gucci's. Please avert your gaze from the green leather jacket, and notice the bit loafers and jeans. I particularly like the brown suede shoes with the sports jacket in the third photo.
> 
> DocD


Nice 3R2 jacket eh?

Thanks for the pics DD. Opens up some options for my Alden black bits and has piqued my interest in a pair in brown sued.


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## jml90

Some interesting AE bits on the bay


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## jml90

Saw a man wearing Bragano model on woven black today. 

Pretty well dressed all things considered DB 4x1 jacket black turtleneck and pocket square.


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## jamgood

*Thems fer a wee pony!! More lak chiwahwha bits.*

The woman in red is the former Ivana Trump, and perhaps her current sugardaddy on her right. Is that too obvious and I just didn't get the joke?

In olden times Cole-Hann did not label its Italian shoes Cole-Haan. "Intercueros" was the brand.
(I didn't bother to photo the bit loafers as the gold leaf "Intercueros" has long vanished. But a pair of medallion-less wingtips still have the gold leaf "Intercueros")
Nappa calf with tan pigskin lining.

Before Cole-Haan jumped the shark, in more recent years the Bragano bit loafer had a thicker, somewhat less flexible upper than the nappa calf of the C-H. The construction was somewhat superior and the Bragano retailed for about $40 more than the CH. The CH bit may not be made in Italy now.(?)

At one time there was also a specialist in Gucci ribbon bit moc knock-offs named Harbor Imports. Harbor Imports devolved into Harbor Footwear Group, the current licensed marketer of Bass and, I think, Steeple Gate, GBX and Georgio Brutini (sp?)

A few years ago I sold several (new) pairs of the Bruno Magli and Church bit loafers on eBay. The Magli were well constructed, but overpriced at retail. The Church were similar to Cole-Hann in quality and I think were made in Spain. I think Church, before the Prada acquisition, sourced the bit loafers in both Italy and Spain. They were labelled Prima Classe by Church or Church's.

Both Johnny Carson and Ed McMahon often wore Gucci loafers (patent, sometimes) on the Tonight Show.

Thank you for all your photo essays DD. (MD, Phd.,JD, DD.....in Damage ??? Is that pronounced Daah-Maahsh)


----------



## shuman

Are these Gucci?

https://imageshack.us

However strange the combination, somehow he pulls it off. From Trovato(sp?)


----------



## Doctor Damage

More shoe porn. These photos nicely illustrate the difference between the black calf and brown calf (the latter is very dark).





DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

More porn of a brown calf pair. Beautiful stuff.











DocD


----------



## jml90

How do these run siZe wise?


----------



## jml90

Here's some bit loafers on The Sartorailist. Gucci?

https://bp2.blogger.com/_qjpwnPW4c1o/RgvDQQAshyI/AAAAAAAAAu4/mt2nUyXkeCY/s1600-h/RCHBVSV.jpg


----------



## Doctor Damage

jml90 said:


> Here's some bit loafers on The Sartorialist. Gucci?


Here's the photo from your link...Hamish Bowles, of course, with a wonderfully gangly charmer.

No way to tell. They aren't _obviously_ Gucci shoes, but the Big G sold many variations on their own classics, so could be. I'd guess Bruno Magli probably.

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

More photos of bit loafers in action...first up is Ronald Ferguson and his daughter.



This is Joan Rivers with her husband Edgar Rosenberg.



This man should need no introduction...bit loafers, tartan trousers, and blazer!



DocD


----------



## P-K-L

I really love those pictures, where we can see the bitloafers "in action".

Here we got a variety of Alden Bitloafers:


----------



## Doctor Damage

Thanks *PKL*, that photo allows easy comparison with other photos in this thread.

Below are two photos of Gucci's being sold by the same person. The great thing about these photos is they are photographed exactly the same, which makes colour and size comparisons easy. The brown one is a 10D and the black is 10E.

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

The pair below is the standard Gucci and the size is apparently 10EEE.



DocD


----------



## spinlps

*AE Heathwood*

An interesting AE Bit Loafer. I prefer the styling to the Bruzzano and, as a bonus, these are 360 welted. Similar to the new Alden Flex-Welt bit loafers, particularly the bottom picture.

It is not in the last few catalogs but has appeared new on ebay recently. NOS / deadstock perhaps?

I'm waiting for delivery of the bottom pair and can post more pics when they arrive.

Black

AE Chili

Brown Suede

Brandy or just a lighter chili?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Good finds, *spinlps*. I particularly like the brown suede. Too bad that AE seems to have eliminated any leathers other than black and burgundy, for most of it's shoes (and certainly the models I would buy -- why not suede in the Grayson, for example?).

DocD


----------



## Khnelben

*I have been ...*

to DC and actually missed a pair of Cole Haans at the Lyusburg premium outlet - for 100 USD - its really a pity.

They looked great on my feet, and very classic - as I have a pair of navy Guccis with pressed logos.

Gucci has also made a pair this summer in white/blue - very C'ote Azure.

DD, all of the pictures are great.

Andrey


----------



## spinlps

*Another AE...*

This one is called the Hardwood. The bit looks awfully similar to the SF bit, no?


----------



## Khnelben

*As mentioned earlier ...*

I have been to a reception in the presence of Prince Michael

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=69563

he has been wearing beautiful bit loafers, in something that may have been croc leather.

The bit on the shoes was to the outer side and looked like a stirrup.

Who makes these apart from Polo?

DD, can you please post pictures of Gucci bamboo loafers and similar models?

Thanks,

Andrey


----------



## Doctor Damage

Khnelben said:


> DD, can you please post pictures of Gucci bamboo loafers and similar models?


This is the recent 138204 model, with bamboo bit.

Here are the same drivers worn with a suit.

DocD


----------



## Khnelben

*thanks ...*

that's nice.

Andrey


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here is a very detailed photo of a pair of Gucci 155182 loafers, in a nice country-grain leather. The leather really makes them look casual. They might even be unlined, which would be really great!



DD


----------



## Khnelben

*Arnold ...*

S. is wearing a funny pair of loafers ))

Getty ref. No. 74880562

Andrey


----------



## Literide

I have the Church's Mad (@49th) ave made in Italy version from about 15 years ago. 
Super comfy w/o socks, lining is glove soft. Generally I only wear unlined loafer w/o socks but these are great. Never owned the Gucci original, but no need, the Church's are awesome. 
Dont know where or from whom in Italy they would have sourced them, but they sure are nice, especially at not much more tha n$100 IIRC. Sure miss those sales.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's another photo of Derrick Miller wearing those crossed-bones loafers, this time in brown calf (from The Sartorialist).



DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Today I managed to inspect a pair of those Barker Black loafers at Holt Renfrew in Toronto and I must say I was impressed with them. The last is a beautiful shape and the crossed-bones bits are totally unnoticable in real life; honestly, you just don't notice them at all. They will order any size & material I want--and I do want a pair--but the delivery wait is 16-18 months!

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

My preferred shoe store up here has confirmed that Church's no longer offer a bit loafer, which had been suggested by one of our members earlier in this thread. Too bad, as they would be much better than actual Guccis.

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Sebago bit loafers!




DocD


----------



## jml90

I wore a pair of Cole Haan bit loafers today. At first I didn't like them, but I wore them all day and I LOVE them. I WANT MORE!


----------



## Doctor Damage

More proof that A-E sold the Bruzzano bit loafer in more than just black calf...style 49741, size 12D.



DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

jml90 said:


> I wore a pair of Cole Haan bit loafers today. At first I didn't like them, but I wore them all day and I LOVE them. I WANT MORE!


Saw a man wearing a pair of those in black leather the other day in Toronto. They made a nice, quiet jingling sound!

DocD


----------



## EastVillageTrad

P-K-L said:


> I really love those pictures, where we can see the bitloafers "in action".
> 
> Here we got a variety of Alden Bitloafers:


I have these in black calf and I think the tan would be next on the list, maybe later this year. . .

So many younger fellows on the trading floor wear the ugly Feragamo bits w/ the "D" buckles, so chunky and no class...

The Cape Cod Aldens are great! I was mistaken in the elevator the other day for Gucci, and I piped up, "No these are Alden" and the women who I had held the elevator door for said, "Ohh, those are the best".

HA!


----------



## Doctor Damage

How to wear bit loafers (part _deux_)...

1.

Worn with cutaway at your wedding to your first wife (he is the Marquess of Blandford, heir to the Duke of Marlborough)...and attending Goodwood with your buddies after breaking up with your second wife because she has no longer has patience for your substance abuse problems.

2.

Does anyone recognize this man? He's a well-known Canadian media mogul, photographed here in happier times.

DocD


----------



## jml90

Doctor Damage said:


> How to wear bit loafers (part _deux_)...
> 
> 1.
> 
> Worn with cutaway at your wedding to your first wife (he is the Marquess of Blandford, heir to the Duke of Marlborough)...and attending Goodwood with your buddies after breaking up with your second wife because she has no longer has patience for your substance abuse problems.
> 
> DocD


Before and after definately looks like he's been hittin' the bottle.


----------



## tntele

*Questions about bit loafers*

I currently own the Cole Haan version of the bit loafer. While I like the way the shoe fits, its durability and excessive creasing of the calf leaves alot to be desired. I've owned the Geneva by Ferragamo in the past and it simply did not fit my foot very well. I've tried the Cancun by Ferragamo and also the new Gucci loafer (with the webbing) and was umimpressed by either shoe. I'm not going to pay over $400 for an unlined shoe (Cancun) and the Gucci simply looks to "fashionable" for me. This leaves me with considering the Alden version. Has anyone had any luck with this shoe? Does this shoe more closely resemble the classic Gucci loafer without that huge heel? I love Alden as I've had great luck with them in the past, and wonder if the Alden bit in the "Cape Cod" line is as durable as their other shoes. Is the "Cape Cod" line of shoes more along the quality of JM instead of AE or Alden? Thanks for the input.


----------



## Doctor Damage

*Adults Only*



tntele said:


> This leaves me with considering the Alden version. Has anyone had any luck with this shoe? Does this shoe more closely resemble the classic Gucci loafer without that huge heel? I love Alden as I've had great luck with them in the past, and wonder if the Alden bit in the "Cape Cod" line is as durable as their other shoes.


Here is some great Alden bit loafer shoe porn which may help you decide if you like them or not.

DocD


----------



## mcarthur

^
Very nice model. No shoes on the cutting board


----------



## A.Squire

^ great photos. Are they yours? Judging from your WAYW photos I'd say no, but I'm curious.


----------



## Doctor Damage

A.Squire said:


> ^ great photos. Are they yours? Judging from your WAYW photos I'd say no, but I'm curious.


Oh no, just from eBay a few weeks ago.

If Alden (and other shoe brands) actually put photos like those bit loafers on the cutting board up on their websites, I bet they'd sell more shoes than they do right now. The Alden and AE sites are sadly uninspiring. This was brought home to me last week, when I saw a bunch of AE shoes at their trunk show in Toronto: they look 100X better in the flesh than on their website. Same story for Alden, mostly.

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Kirk Douglas, 1971.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Eric Clapton, 2003.


----------



## Georgia

Lord I wish these were a 9.5C:


----------



## Doctor Damage

Georgia said:


> Lord I wish these were a 9.5C...


Finally, a real-life photo of the suede version.
In fact, those would fit me! Hmmm....

DocD


----------



## Tom Bell-Drier

Georgia said:


> Lord I wish these were a 9.5C:


I can`t find a photo on the internet but I have a pair of english made loakes that look identical to these.

Though wether the loakes reflect the quallity of the aldens - I don`t know


----------



## Doctor Damage

George Hamilton somewhere in Europe in 1968, with his future first wife.



Here he is in NYC more recently. Why the funny face? The blonde is his first (now ex-) wife and the brunette was his current girlfriend at the time of the photo!



DocD


----------



## TMMKC

Doctor Damage said:


> George Hamilton somewhere in Europe in 1968, with his future first wife.
> 
> Here he is in NYC more recently. Why the funny face? The blonde is his first (now ex-) wife and the brunette was his current girlfriend at the time of the photo!
> 
> DocD


George Hamilton is a God! I highly recommend that every AAAC member read his book, "Life's Little Pleasures."

I am on the verge of getting bit loafers. My question to you, Doc, is....

What would you recommend be the best color, style (e.g. calf or suede) and brand (e.g. Gucci, AE) for my first pair? I'd like something that is versatile enough for casual and dressier wear (with a blazer/tie but probably not a suit). Speak to me, oh Oracle of Bit Loafers! Thanks.:icon_smile_big:


----------



## Doctor Damage

TMMKC said:


> George Hamilton is a God! I highly recommend that every AAAC member read his book, "Life's Little Pleasures."


I recommend the movie _Eight Heads in a Duffel Bag_ in which he plays a long-suffering but rich husband of an alcoholic wife ("mummy is tired again and she went to lie down") and blonde domineering sorority daughter who wants to marry the boring bookish milquetoast boyfriend. Insert mob hitman with duffel bag full of heads, switch duffel bag of heads with duffel bag of college textbooks owned by boyfriend, and voila comedic fun. And George Hamilton looking stylish throughout.



TMMKC said:


> I am on the verge of getting bit loafers. My question to you, Doc, is....
> 
> What would you recommend be the best color, style (e.g. calf or suede) and brand (e.g. Gucci, AE) for my first pair? I'd like something that is versatile enough for casual and dressier wear (with a blazer/tie but probably not a suit). Thanks.


I am told never to wear them with a suit; casual only. Which model to buy first? Reliable recommendations are not my thing, but that's not stopped me yet from shooting my mouth off, so here we go.

Based on all the photos I've collected, photos posted by other members, and comments made by members, I think the best starter bit loafer is the AE Bruzzano, since it's the most faithful copy of the original Gucci. The Alden version is probably number two as it's a slightly less sleek design, although there will be no difference in quality between the two. On the other hand, the Alden does come in four different colours and materials, so perhaps it is best to jump into those right away and then you can just order the other versions later with full confidence in fit. On the _other_ other hand, the AE shoe is made in Italy with the hidden stitching soles, which is kind of nice and very authentic (although I would immediately cover those with a thin topy to prevent wear). I think the best & most functional colour would be black in calfskin; leave suede for later once you're comfortable with the style.

Cole Haan bit loafers are another option, sleeker than the Aldens, but they have very low vamps and are possibly inferior in quality to the AE and Aldens.

Gucci obviously makes the originals, but the classic model comes with a high heel and large toebox, which is an acquired taste. People familiar with American shoes like tassel loafers may find the aggressively Italian nature of the Guccis to be a bit too much. Guccis are also "priced to perfection".

Overall, I guess if I was going to buy only one pair of bit loafers I would get the AEs. If I was sort of planning to get more, I'd go direclty to the Aldens since they offer more options for later.

Does anyone disagree? Any other opinions?

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Yes, they made boat shoes at one point...


----------



## TMMKC

Doctor Damage said:


> I recommend the movie _Eight Heads in a Duffel Bag_ in which he plays a long-suffering but rich husband of an alcoholic wife ("mummy is tired again and she went to lie down") and blonde domineering sorority daughter who wants to marry the boring bookish milquetoast boyfriend. Insert mob hitman with duffel bag full of heads, switch duffel bag of heads with duffel bag of college textbooks owned by boyfriend, and voila comedic fun. And George Hamilton looking stylish throughout.
> 
> I am told never to wear them with a suit; casual only. Which model to buy first? Reliable recommendations are not my thing, but that's not stopped me yet from shooting my mouth off, so here we go.
> 
> Based on all the photos I've collected, photos posted by other members, and comments made by members, I think the best starter bit loafer is the AE Bruzzano, since it's the most faithful copy of the original Gucci. The Alden version is probably number two as it's a slightly less sleek design, although there will be no difference in quality between the two. On the other hand, the Alden does come in four different colours and materials, so perhaps it is best to jump into those right away and then you can just order the other versions later with full confidence in fit. On the _other_ other hand, the AE shoe is made in Italy with the hidden stitching soles, which is kind of nice and very authentic (although I would immediately cover those with a thin topy to prevent wear). I think the best & most functional colour would be black in calfskin; leave suede for later once you're comfortable with the style.
> 
> Cole Haan bit loafers are another option, sleeker than the Aldens, but they have very low vamps and are possibly inferior in quality to the AE and Aldens.
> 
> Gucci obviously makes the originals, but the classic model comes with a high heel and large toebox, which is an acquired taste. People familiar with American shoes like tassel loafers may find the aggressively Italian nature of the Guccis to be a bit too much. Guccis are also "priced to perfection".
> 
> Overall, I guess if I was going to buy only one pair of bit loafers I would get the AEs. If I was sort of planning to get more, I'd go direclty to the Aldens since they offer more options for later.
> 
> Does anyone disagree? Any other opinions?
> 
> DocD


Excellent advice as usual, DocD. Thank you. I have been looking at the AE Bruzzanos, as well as the Guccis. My business has been going very well...I feel the need to reward myself with a little treat! I think, in the long term, I may like the AEs better...and the price is more reasonable and I know from experience the quality is always outstanding.

BTW...I was always taught that you don't wear loafers with a suit. Judging by pictures and comments I've seen on AAAC, I wonder if I need to rethink my position (after all, George Hamilton is wearing them in the second photo!). Also, I will check out the movie...thanks.:icon_smile:


----------



## Tucker

This has been one of the more interesting threads on the Trad forum. Thanks, DocD.

I've never worn bit loafers before and am still on the fence as to whether I'll ever buy a pair. My lawyer, a well-dressed gentleman, has worn Gucci bit loafers for as long as I've known him (over 30 years). They seem to fit his character; however, they just don't seem to be "me". I can't put my finger on it.

Edit: If I were to bite the bit, I think I'd have to go for the Alden 5726F. The color looks great.









Photo by LeatherSoul


----------



## spinlps

Doctor Damage said:


> Does anyone disagree? Any other opinions?
> 
> DocD


I'd agree for the most part. My experience in the AE vs. Alden bit sweepstakes:

AE Bruzzano's run small, very small. Lacking a local AE dealer, I ordered through the AE site and the shoes marked "11" fit more like a "10." I returned them and ordered a pair of the Alden CC's locally. These fit true to size IMO.

I do have a pair of AE 360 Welted bits that fit fabulously, better than the Alden CC's in some respects. These difference come down to last fit than construction as the Alden CC's are solid. I do not have a pair of the mainline Alden bits.... yet.

The AE's also come in a variety of styles and colors and are available at deep discount on the Bay. These, unlike the Bruzzano's, fit true to the AE last chart.


----------



## TMMKC

spinlps said:


> I'd agree for the most part. My experience in the AE vs. Alden bit sweepstakes:
> 
> AE Bruzzano's run small, very small. Lacking a local AE dealer, I ordered through the AE site and the shoes marked "11" fit more like a "10." I returned them and ordered a pair of the Alden CC's locally. These fit true to size IMO.
> 
> I do have a pair of AE 360 Welted bits that fit fabulously, better than the Alden CC's in some respects. These difference come down to last fit than construction as the Alden CC's are solid. I do not have a pair of the mainline Alden bits.... yet.
> 
> The AE's also come in a variety of styles and colors and are available at deep discount on the Bay. These, unlike the Bruzzano's, fit true to the AE last chart.


So, if I decide to get the Bruzzanos, I should get a "12" instead of my usual 11C-D?


----------



## spinlps

TMMKC said:


> So, if I decide to get the Bruzzanos, I should get a "12" instead of my usual 11C-D?


I would suggest trying these on in person. I decided it wasnt worth the hassle to ship shoes back and forth to get a perfect fit and went to my local Alden dealer for a pair of the Cape Cod's and proper fitting.


----------



## TMMKC

spinlps said:


> I would suggest trying these on in person. I decided it wasnt worth the hassle to ship shoes back and forth to get a perfect fit and went to my local Alden dealer for a pair of the Cape Cod's and proper fitting.


I may have better luck finding the Alden model in KC than the AE shoe (most retailers here only carry a fe AE models). I like the Gucci brown loafer too but, as DocD pointed out, the heel is fairly high for such a shoe.

I normally only buy shoes online that I've tried on in a store. Too bad that's not always possible.


----------



## Doctor Damage

That's valuable info on the Bruzzano fitting, thanks everyone. Clearly they are using an Italian sizing for that model, not American sizes. Just for visual reference, here's a pair of Bruzzano's from eBay that have been to hell and back:





DocD


----------



## bd79cc

Tucker said:


> they just don't seem to be "me". I can't put my finger on it.
> 
> Edit: If I were to bite the bit, I think I'd have to go for the Alden 5726F. The color looks great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Photo by LeatherSoul


My sentiments, as well.


----------



## bd79cc

Doctor Damage said:


> That's valuable info on the Bruzzano fitting, thanks everyone. Clearly they are using an Italian sizing for that model, not American sizes. Just for visual reference, here's a pair of Bruzzano's from eBay that have been to hell and back:
> 
> DocD


Good-looking shoes. Much more durable than their construction would suggest. But for Pete's sake, put some shoe trees in them before they decide to curl up and die!


----------



## TMMKC

Doctor Damage said:


> That's valuable info on the Bruzzano fitting, thanks everyone. Clearly they are using an Italian sizing for that model, not American sizes. Just for visual reference, here's a pair of Bruzzano's from eBay that have been to hell and back:
> 
> DocD


Wow...that's a pity. And shoe trees are so cheap too.


----------



## Doctor Damage

TMMKC said:


> Wow...that's a pity. And shoe trees are so cheap too.


To be fair to the seller--whom I do not know--those look like they've been jammed in a box or something. Even my oldest and most abused loafers don't squash flat like that (although the toes will curl a little at the tip).

DocD


----------



## spinlps

Ended up wearing the AE Heathwood bit loafers today. These are in heavy rotation but still look great.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I picked up a pair of the Gucci 157440 today, sized 10.5D, and I was surprised to discover that the sizing is comparable with AE (10.5D). Two years ago, when I last tried on a pair of Gucci shoes, they seemed to fit small, such that even an 11D was tight in spots. Very odd...they must have correlated their sizes with American sizes now to make things easier for them. The 015938 classic model seems comparable, maybe a little bit tighter, but I passed on that model because of the super-high heels and generally boxy shape -- be forewarned, the 015938 is much more "fashiony" in real life than in the photos I've posted earlier in this thread.

DocD


----------



## mcarthur

^
Congratulations! Post picture!


----------



## TMMKC

Doctor Damage said:


> I picked up a pair of the Gucci 157440 today, sized 10.5D, and I was surprised to discover that the sizing is comparable with AE (10.5D). Two years ago, when I last tried on a pair of Gucci shoes, they seemed to fit small, such that even an 11D was tight in spots. Very odd...they must have correlated their sizes with American sizes now to make things easier for them. The 015938 classic model seems comparable, maybe a little bit tighter, but I passed on that model because of the super-high heels and generally boxy shape -- be forewarned, the 015938 is much more "fashiony" in real life than in the photos I've posted earlier in this thread.
> 
> DocD


Good for you! That's great insight. The "fashion-forward" aspects of the Gucci model are a little off-putting to me...but that's merely my preference. In doing some investigating the past few days, I've settled on the Alden model in dark brown. I think I'd get much more wear out of brown than black (like the AE model). I too will past a pic once I get the shoes.


----------



## Doctor Damage

TMMKC said:


> Good for you! That's great insight. The "fashion-forward" aspects of the Gucci model are a little off-putting to me...but that's merely my preference. In doing some investigating the past few days, I've settled on the Alden model in dark brown. I think I'd get much more wear out of brown than black (like the AE model). I too will past a pic once I get the shoes.


I think the Gucci shoes look less aggressive in suede, so they might be okay and I think I will see if they can be ordered. But the Alden is a nice alternative and only 2/3 the price of the Big G. Having had a chance to sit down and closely examine my new shoes, they are very luxurious and seem to have more in common with top quality purses or wallets than shoes, while sitting on a shelf in a store they look sort of cheap & flashy.

For fun, here's some older G models. Note the Ferragamo brown suede loafers in the second photo; the rest are Gucci. And yes, that's a pair of men's red suede shoes you see in the bottom photo!


----------



## spinlps

Shipton also offers an homage... with or without the striped ribbon.

https://www.shipton-usa.com/erol.html#536X0

The price is certainly favourable.


----------



## TMMKC

As of yesterday, I have a pair of dark brown Alden models on order from a local retailer. I love the color...very classic. He carries a rather large collection of Alden shoes in stock, though not this model. The price wasn't a back-breaker either...$250. I can't wait!

P.S. I have a feeling this is an addiction that will need to be fed every couple years! I may keep my eye out on ebay or Sierra for the AE or a "gently used" pair of Gucci models.

Thanks to all for the input!:icon_smile_big:


----------



## Doctor Damage

spinlps said:


> Shipton also offers an homage... with or without the striped ribbon.
> https://www.shipton-usa.com/erol.html#536X0
> The price is certainly favourable.


Thanks for that link. Another interesting source and some of the colours look really good (I recommend avoiding the orange suede, however... <smile>).



TMMKC said:


> As of yesterday, I have a pair of dark brown Alden models on order from a local retailer. I love the color...very classic. He carries a rather large collection of Alden shoes in stock, though not this model. The price wasn't a back-breaker either...$250. I can't wait!
> P.S. I have a feeling this is an addiction that will need to be fed every couple years! I may keep my eye out on ebay or Sierra for the AE or a "gently used" pair of Gucci models.


The nice thing about the Alden is next year you can buy the black calf, the year following the brown suede, and finally the black suede. Then you can start again.

DocD


----------



## TMMKC

Doctor Damage said:


> The nice thing about the Alden is next year you can buy the black calf, the year following the brown suede, and finally the black suede. Then you can start again.
> 
> DocD


That's what I suspect...this might be the start of a new addiction! Actually, I would like to get a Gucci model eventually, but I work too hard for my money to throw down that kind of cash for a pair of shoes without trying them on first (even though I know I can always return them...but that's a pain in the arse most of the time). The next time I'm in a city with a Gucci store, or near a Needless Markup, I'll try on a pair.

The Aldens fit me like bedroom slippers. However, in all honesty, I tried on a penny loafer he had in stock...but it's made on the same last, and with the same type fo leather, as the horse bit model.


----------



## PittDoc

Do the Alden bit loafers have a Goodyear sole? If they can be easily resoled I would favor them over the Gucci's. Does Alden's reconditioning program apply to these?

I've had my Gucci loafers resoled a few times and they feel slightly different each time, which I blame on changes made to the heel/sole relationship. Not unwearable but less comfortable.


----------



## TMMKC

PittDoc said:


> Do the Alden bit loafers have a Goodyear sole? If they can be easily resoled I would favor them over the Gucci's. Does Alden's reconditioning program apply to these?
> 
> I've had my Gucci loafers resoled a few times and they feel slightly different each time, which I blame on changes made to the heel/sole relationship. Not unwearable but less comfortable.


The model I bought has a leather sole, so I'm not much help on that matter. However, the man who owns the shoe store told me Alden does the same of reconditioning as AE.


----------



## buckman44

*About the Bit Loafers*

Just checking in to this interesting thread. I have six pairs of the AE Bruzzanos (3 brown & 3 black) and a pair of the CH Bennets. (The Bennets are CH's new entry into the market. They have a higher vamp so you don't have to go around looking prissy in your shoes.) I like the AEs better for dress-up (and I do wear them with suits and my tux--I live in the South) but find the Bennets better for wearing to work because they come with a thicker sole and wear longer. ALso, AE quit making the Bruzzano in brown about 5-6 years ago and their black has a nickel bit instead of brass. For my black ones I always bought brown and had them dyed black because I prefer the brass bit.

I'll probably switch to the Alden when these wear out, as I like their quality better than CH, and AE has removed themselves from my market by discontinuing brown and refusing to put brass bits on the black.

I wish shoe companies would alert customers to impending discontinuations of styles so we could stock up. Best example is Sperry. One day you could buy the Kudu and the next it was gone. I'd have bought 5 pairs to last for life if I'd have known.

I have a lot more knowledge on this subject, but don't want to bore.


----------



## Doctor Damage

buckman44 said:


> Just checking in to this interesting thread. I have six pairs of the AE Bruzzanos (3 brown & 3 black) and a pair of the CH Bennets. (The Bennets are CH's new entry into the market. They have a higher vamp so you don't have to go around looking prissy in your shoes.) I like the AEs better for dress-up (and I do wear them with suits and my tux--I live in the South) but find the Bennets better for wearing to work because they come with a thicker sole and wear longer. ALso, AE quit making the Bruzzano in brown about 5-6 years ago and their black has a nickel bit instead of brass. For my black ones I always bought brown and had them dyed black because I prefer the brass bit.
> 
> I'll probably switch to the Alden when these wear out, as I like their quality better than CH, and AE has removed themselves from my market by discontinuing brown and refusing to put brass bits on the black.
> 
> I wish shoe companies would alert customers to impending discontinuations of styles so we could stock up. Best example is Sperry. One day you could buy the Kudu and the next it was gone. I'd have bought 5 pairs to last for life if I'd have known.
> 
> I have a lot more knowledge on this subject, but don't want to bore.


Can you comment on the fit of the Bruzzano versus other AE models?

As for the bit colour, AE would probably send you a replacement if you asked.
Gucci will replace them on request (or at least the used to...).

DocD


----------



## buckman44

*Bruzzano Fit*

Yes, I can confirm that the Bruzzanos tend to run narrower. I still buy my normal 10D and after 20-25 wearings, they fit just fine. I can see why someone used to the CH shoes would be frustrated with the Bruzzanos, though, because the Cole Haans do seem to stretch out more with wear.

One comment I withheld in deference to you Gucci lovers is that I reached a point 10-12 years ago when I had to decide whether I liked a certain look in my bit loafers or whether I liked to say I wore Guccis. I came down on the side of the look and refused to buy the square-toed version they switched to. Still won't wear them, even though they have ceased to make me laugh out loud when I see them. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age.

I don't post here often and I'm probably not the best standard to use these days. I still refuse to wear anything but suits and jackets with three buttons (not the new-fangled darted kind), no pleated slacks, 1.25-1.5 inch cuffs, button-downs, alligator belts, BB rep, VV, or Randy Hanauer's bow ties.

And, finally, I just have to say that I find it a tad weird for guys to sit around and talk about what they wear. I'd rather be in a deer stand or flyfishing, but I got snagged by this site once when trying to find a certain kind of shoe, and found this place more fun than I want to admit.


----------



## buckman44

*Bruzzano Fit*

Yes, I can confirm that the Bruzzanos tend to run narrower. I still buy my normal 10D and after 20-25 wearings, they fit just fine. I can see why someone used to the CH shoes would be frustrated with the Bruzzanos, though, because the Cole Haans do seem to stretch out more with wear.

One comment I withheld in deference to you Gucci lovers is that I reached a point 10-12 years ago when I had to decide whether I liked a certain look in my bit loafers or whether I liked to say I wore Guccis. I came down on the side of the look and refused to buy the square-toed version they switched to. Still won't wear them, even though they have ceased to make me laugh out loud when I see them. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age.

I don't post here often and I'm probably not the best standard to use these days. I still refuse to wear anything but suits and jackets with three buttons (not the new-fangled darted kind), no pleated slacks, 1.25-1.5 inch cuffs, button-downs, alligator belts, BB rep, VV, or Randy Hanauer's bow ties.

And, finally, I just have to say that I find it a tad weird for guys to sit around and talk about what they wear. I'd rather be in a deer stand or flyfishing, but I got snagged by this site once when trying to find a certain kind of shoe and found this place more fun than I want to admit.


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## Doctor Damage

Welcome to the dark side of the Force, buckman.
You can never go back...

Thanks for the comments. I too am a bit leery of the "new" G loafer shape, which is why I bought the revived model.

DocD


----------



## LeatherSOUL

Some news on the Alden Flex Bit Loafer:

Looks like Alden will be updating the loafer to be more like the LHS with the same handsewn stitching on the vamp. They should start rolling out in 2008.


----------



## marlinspike

Didn't see these in the thread. Magnnani Ibiza's which I bought new on ebay for $48 (being size 14 sometimes has perks). No longer made. Came in white black and tan when they were made. Bologna construction (which as far as I'm concerned is a plus). They seem to pick up grime easily for some reason, maybe I just notice it more because of how light they are. I guess it's time to buy more Coach leather cleaner (or not...looks like they've changed their conditioner and cleaner raising the price, giving you less product, and making a formula that is no longer safe for many leathers).


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## Doctor Damage

Gucci loafers in black and brown suede.


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## Doctor Damage

Barker Black "Wolfe" bit loafer, all four versions.



I promise not to post these again!

DocD


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## TMMKC

buckman44 said:


> Yes, I can confirm that the Bruzzanos tend to run narrower. I still buy my normal 10D and after 20-25 wearings, they fit just fine. I can see why someone used to the CH shoes would be frustrated with the Bruzzanos, though, because the Cole Haans do seem to stretch out more with wear.
> 
> One comment I withheld in deference to you Gucci lovers is that I reached a point 10-12 years ago when I had to decide whether I liked a certain look in my bit loafers or whether I liked to say I wore Guccis. I came down on the side of the look and refused to buy the square-toed version they switched to. Still won't wear them, even though they have ceased to make me laugh out loud when I see them. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age.
> 
> I don't post here often and I'm probably not the best standard to use these days. I still refuse to wear anything but suits and jackets with three buttons (not the new-fangled darted kind), no pleated slacks, 1.25-1.5 inch cuffs, button-downs, alligator belts, BB rep, VV, or Randy Hanauer's bow ties.
> 
> And, finally, I just have to say that I find it a tad weird for guys to sit around and talk about what they wear. I'd rather be in a deer stand or flyfishing, but I got snagged by this site once when trying to find a certain kind of shoe and found this place more fun than I want to admit.


It sounds like we are (nearly) on the same page. AAAC is my guilty pleasure. Thanks for the insight on the Bruzzanos...as I think they might be my next shoe acquisition (or I may just get a black pair of Aldens to go with the brown pair I already have). I nearly pulled the trigger on the Guccis, the cost didn't scare me off as much as the fit. My toes were literally right at the end on the 11Ds...the 11 1/2 Ds were too wide. I have flat feet with a narrow heel, so most loafers are not going to fit me perfectly anyway...but the Alden was really close.


----------



## eagle2250

A pair of the Alden Bit-Loafers, in brown calf is next on my list of "must haves"...unless I find a pair of properly fitted, alpine grained, shell cord longwings first (are you reading this LeatherSoul?). Are the Alden bit loafers as soft and supple as the appear in the photos?


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## Duck

It is fantastic, like slipping into a little slice of heaven. I could wear them everyday if it wasn't against the shoe rotation rules. You owe it to yourself to get a pair.

Why doesn't anyone make shell bit loafers?


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## TMMKC

eagle2250 said:


> A pair of the Alden Bit-Loafers, in brown calf is next on my list of "must haves"...unless I find a pair of properly fitted, alpine grained, shell cord longwings first (are you reading this LeatherSoul?). Are the Alden bit loafers as soft and supple as the appear in the photos?


The leather is butter-soft and they fit like bedroom slippers. I love them. You'll like the brown calf...it's a near-perfect shade. Alden also makes a "dressier" bit loafer, but I did not particularly like the last and fit. At $250 a pair, the Aldens are worth every penny.


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## TMMKC

Duck said:


> Why doesn't anyone make shell bit loafers?


You'd think they would, as there is probably a market for them.

Duck, I recall you once wrote that you have some Cole Haan bits. How's the fit? I swear I heard that they stretch out too much.


----------



## Duck

TMMKC said:


> You'd think they would, as there is probably a market for them.
> 
> Duck, I recall you once wrote that you have some Cole Haan bits. How's the fit? I swear I heard that they stretch out too much.


I have four pairs of bit loafers, Gucci, Cole Haan, J&M and Alden. I need to take pictures for the comparisons.

Aldens - Great fit, comfortable and new.
Guccis - They are the classics, almost 17 years old, handed down from my Uncle to me. I am taking them to my cobbler next week for new soles and some TLC. They look great, feel average.
Coles - I actually enjoy these shoes minus one thing. They are black and don't hold a shine very long. Great shoe though and I haven't notice any major stretching. The area below the toe stitching seems to get scuffed a lot more quickly.
J&M - Least favorite, I wear them maybe twice a year. Look plasticy almost.

Which ones do I wear the most... I don't know. I like all of them except the J&M, they all appeal on certain levels and with certain outfits. I have a lot of shoes and it is nice to be able to mix it up.


----------



## TMMKC

Duck said:


> Aldens - Great fit, comfortable and new.
> Guccis - They are the classics, almost 17 years old, handed down from my Uncle to me. I am taking them to my cobbler next week for new soles and some TLC. They look great, feel average.
> Coles - I actually enjoy these shoes minus one thing. They are black and don't hold a shine very long. Great shoe though and I haven't notice any major stretching. The area below the toe stitching seems to get scuffed a lot more quickly.
> J&M - Least favorite, I wear them maybe twice a year. Look plasticy almost.


Thanks...good insight. I am going to keep looking for a classic pair of Guccis on ebay (or elsewhere). I have a feeling the new model did not fit me well because of the more square toe box. I would assume an older version would fit better, much like the Alden.

Note: I wasn't too excited by the J&M bit either.


----------



## Duck

TMMKC said:


> Thanks...good insight. I am going to keep looking for a classic pair of Guccis on ebay (or elsewhere). I have a feeling the new model did not fit me well because of the more square toe box. I would assume an older version would fit better, much like the Alden.
> 
> Note: I wasn't too excited by the J&M bit either.


Exactly, I have tried on the new Guccis and they just feel off. Not uncomfortable but different. Good luck in your hunt.


----------



## LeatherSOUL

eagle2250 said:


> A pair of the Alden Bit-Loafers, in brown calf is next on my list of "must haves"...unless I find a pair of properly fitted, alpine grained, shell cord longwings first (are you reading this LeatherSoul?). Are the Alden bit loafers as soft and supple as the appear in the photos?


When scotch grain shell is available from Alden I'm the first in line. As far as the leather in the bit loafers...are you talking about the flex bit? If so, they are very very soft and buttery.


----------



## Falstaff

I am thinking about purchasing my first pair of bit loafers. Are there some Guccis on ebay that are authentic? I'm very wary of thinking I got a deal at $150 and finding out that they're junk.
From what I read, the Aldens are tremendous; should I just get those? Advise, please . . .


----------



## Duck

Falstaff said:


> I am thinking about purchasing my first pair of bit loafers. Are there some Guccis on ebay that are authentic? I'm very wary of thinking I got a deal at $150 and finding out that they're junk.
> From what I read, the Aldens are tremendous; should I just get those? Advise, please . . .


Falstaff,

If I had to choose between Gucci and Alden... well, I would save my penny's and buy both.

Seriously, go for the Guccis, they are the originals and look great. If you can post a picture without the link to the sale or send a few of us the link in PM so that you don't get into a bidding war we would be more than happy to authenticate the G's for you.


----------



## TMMKC

Falstaff said:


> I am thinking about purchasing my first pair of bit loafers. Are there some Guccis on ebay that are authentic? I'm very wary of thinking I got a deal at $150 and finding out that they're junk.
> From what I read, the Aldens are tremendous; should I just get those? Advise, please . . .


From what I've found on eBay, the Guccis for sale there are genuine. I just haven't had much luck finding them in my size (11D), or the particular style I'm looking for (the "classics"). You can buy new Guccis online for about $60 less than what you'd pay in a store (regular retail is around $460 a pair).

I am a big fan of Alden shoes in general, and there is absolutely no way you can go wrong by buying a pair of their bit loafers (around $250). I suggest you start with Aldens. If you take care of them, they will last you for many, many years. On top of that, I believe Alden (like AE) do have a refurbishing service available as well. On top of that, they're made in the USA...if that matters.


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## Doctor Damage

Duck said:


> Exactly, I have tried on the new Guccis and they just feel off. Not uncomfortable but different. Good luck in your hunt.


Those (not you, Duck) who are new to Italian loafers will find these strange. The toe box is supposed to be long, as it's part of the overall slimming effect. Fit the heel cup, metatarsals(sp), and over the instep, although the latter in particular will always stretch with soft leather. Forget the toes; they will never be tight in the toes.

I will try to dig out some photos of fake Guccis, as a visual reference.

DocD


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## Doctor Damage

Alden bit loafers, both currently on eBay (sizes are 11E and 12E respectively).


----------



## eagle2250

Duck, TMMKC and LeatherSoul: Thanks for the feedback on the feel of the leather in the Alden bit loafers. I should have a pair sitting in the closet (and occassionally on my feet) before the end of the year. I keep hoping a pair of new 9.5Ds will show up on ebay but, as another poster observed, the $245 retail price is not a bad price for such a well made shoe.


----------



## spinlps

*Allen Edmonds Verona*

New model for Spring 2008. No details on their site yet but here's a pic. Look DD - it comes in something other than black!


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## TMMKC

Thanks for posting. I can't say as I like to looks of that bit..too "chunky" for my tastes.


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## Doctor Damage

spinlps said:


> New model for Spring 2008. No details on their site yet but here's a pic. Look DD - it comes in something other than black!


Thanks, spin! Are you an AE insider, or something?

Except for the bit, those look identical to a model Gucci recently had for a season or two, which I sadly missed. Basically a revival of an older model. I agree with TMMKC about the bit, but I guess that could easily be changed with an AE replacement bit from the Bruzzano or maybe an Alden bit of the same size.

DocD


----------



## spinlps

Doctor Damage said:


> Thanks, spin! Are you an AE insider, or something?
> .
> 
> DocD


Nah. Found that pic on the fashion forum last night and cross posted it here. Didn't see it on the AE site though other new 08 models have started to trickle in.


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## Doctor Damage

President number 42 wearing Ferragamo bit loafers (with president number 41).



Number 42 at some recent events.



DocD


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## Doctor Damage

Ferragamo "Diego" lug soles, rather nice shoes with the classic SF bit (double horseshoes). I think I'd like a pair, since the sole is not as thick as the 2" or whatever of the Gucci rubber lug sole (and Cole-Haan no longer offers the lug sole Bennett). More proof that almost any shoes look better in suede than calfskin.


----------



## Falstaff

Duck said:


> Falstaff,
> 
> If I had to choose between Gucci and Alden... well, I would save my penny's and buy both.
> 
> Seriously, go for the Guccis, they are the originals and look great. If you can post a picture without the link to the sale or send a few of us the link in PM so that you don't get into a bidding war we would be more than happy to authenticate the G's for you.


Unfortunately, there are none available on ebay for the moment. I did lose a fairly intense bidding war today on a pair of 10H suede Aldens (though non-bit) loafers. Curses, although I blame no one here.
I guess I could consider Cole-Haan (who makes great shoes) . . . but I really, really want a Gucci or an Alden, which, as I see, consistently outrank your other pairs. I guess I'll have to go to a retailer. Or I could just wait, as frustrating as that is.


----------



## TMMKC

Falstaff said:


> Unfortunately, there are none available on ebay for the moment. I did lose a fairly intense bidding war today on a pair of 10H suede Aldens (though non-bit) loafers. Curses, although I blame no one here.
> I guess I could consider Cole-Haan (who makes great shoes) . . . but I really, really want a Gucci or an Alden, which, as I see, consistently outrank your other pairs. I guess I'll have to go to a retailer. Or I could just wait, as frustrating as that is.


Keep the faith. I am in a search for some "classic" black Gucci loafers (11D) myself. Thus far, I have come up empty-handed. I can't really justify buying yet another new pair of shoes this year (though that "rule" never seems to hold up with my wife!:icon_smile_big, but I may just have to bite the bullet and buy a new pair of Guccis eventually. If not, I am tempted to get another pair of Aldens or Cole Haans (the CH bits fit me really well).

Sweetness offered up a pair of 11D black Guccis for sale recently but they're not quite the style I am after.


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## Doctor Damage

I just remembered this Hiroshi Watatani drawing of an "Ivy Leaguer" wearing bit loafers, although the background and car license plate suggest he visiting Europe.


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## mpcsb

Doctor Damage said:


> I just remembered this Hiroshi Watatani drawing of an "Ivy Leaguer" wearing bit loafers, although the background and car license plate suggest he visiting Europe.


Doc,
Nice. Yeah, that would be Florence's Ponte Vecchio in the background.


----------



## Khnelben

*Royalty - Prince Philip*

He is wearing bits in this family picture - the latest anniversary

getty 77970498

Also, Prince Michael has been seen wearing Polo type loafers with buckels - but very rarely seen in pictures like this.

Andrey


----------



## Doctor Damage

Make sure to get a pair before they're gone...

_Dear Sir,

I just want to let you know that the Bruzzano will be discontinued as of December 15th, 2007.

Sincerely,
Sarah Schmitz
Allen Edmonds Shoe Corporation_


----------



## spinlps

Doctor Damage said:


> Make sure to get a pair before they're gone...
> 
> _Dear Sir,_
> 
> _I just want to let you know that the Bruzzano will be discontinued as of December 15th, 2007. _
> 
> _Sincerely,_
> _Sarah Schmitz_
> _Allen Edmonds Shoe Corporation_


I believe they will be replaced by the Verona pictured above.


----------



## egadfly

Doctor Damage said:


> Make sure to get a pair before they're gone...


Can anyone who owns a pair of these comment on the sizing? I've heard that they both small and narrow, so that one generally needs to both size up and take an extra width.

EGF


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## Friedrich2

Spot the horsebit loafers!



(Shouldn't be too difficult...)


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## HoustonTEX

Doctor Damage said:


> Ferragamo "Diego" lug soles, rather nice shoes with the classic SF bit (double horseshoes). I think I'd like a pair, since the sole is not as thick as the 2" or whatever of the Gucci rubber lug sole (and Cole-Haan no longer offers the lug sole Bennett). More proof that almost any shoes look better in suede than calfskin.


I bought a pair of brown suede this summer. They are my favorite casual shoe now. I am not worried that i wear too much and they won't last very long.


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## Doctor Damage

Tonight and tomorrow I intend to post a bunch of bit loafer porn, then offer some comments on what/which models/brands to buy and what to watch for on eBay (to those whom I have said I would help monitor eBay, sorry but I just don't have the time).

Cole-Haans...I wish they still made these in suede, and with the lug sole. I should have bought them when I had the chance (the Toronto store had all of them).


----------



## egadfly

Doctor Damage said:


> Tonight and tomorrow I intend to post a bunch of bit loafer porn, then offer some comments on what/which models/brands to buy and what to watch for on eBay.


DocD:

Looking forward to the loafer pr0n, and will be grateful to have your thoughts on "best practices" for us would-be bit loafer buyers.

EGF


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## Doctor Damage

This pair of vintage Gucci web loafers is obviously in brand-new condition, and with those high heels & the deep curve at the leading edge of the heels, I guess these date from the 1970s or earlier (or maybe early 1980s at the absolute latest). I just saw a pair from the 1950s that were identical to these in a book, but then the book could be wrong. Anyway, it's interesting to note the quality of the leathers, but how primitive is some of the construction. I've seen some vintage Gucci loafers on eBay that have obvious differences between the left and right shoes, but were obviously bought new at full price. Some things _have_ gotten better.


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## marlinspike

Are Cole Hann shoes decent quality at all?


----------



## Doctor Damage

*FAKES...*

*FAKE* Gucci loafers...

When I originally started this thread I promised to point out some fake bit loafers, so those buying on eBay would have some references. Frankly, I have not seen any fake Gucci loafers on the US eBay for a couple of years, so I guess it's not a problem anymore. On the other hand, I regularly see fakes on the UK eBay, so they do still exist. I have never seen, nor I admit would expect to see, fakes of other bit loafers. Who would fake Cole-Haans, or Alden Cape Cods, or AEs? Without the ridiculous brand mark-up of the "luxury" brands, there is no point to a fake.

Below I post a few Gucci fakes and point out the differences. Overall, the best way is to simply look and you can get a "feeling" that something is just not quite right. Also, keep in mind that Gucci makes shoes with a very distinct shape that is rarely duplicated and out of leathers that are essentially women's purse leathers.

-- -- --

*FAKE #1:* The problems with this fake is the (1) too wide heel cup (when viewed frmo above), (2) wrinkled leather (these are supposed to be new), (3) the horsebits which are too small and incorrectly shaped, (4) absence of the "Gucci" metal plaque nailed to bottom of arch on the sole, and (5) only two nails on the heel instead of four.

*FAKE #2:* The problems here are the (1) obviously inferior leather uppers, (2) extra stitch running laterally across the beefrolls (classic Gucci models DO NOT have beefrolls with any stitching over the beefroll), and (3) the childishly bad finishing of the soles, note the haphazard black paint on the edges, the apparent absence of nails, and the mis-matching colours of the sole. Suprisingly, the overall shape of this fake is pretty good.

*FAKE #3:* This fake also has a good shape, but the problems are with the (1) the extra stitching across the beefroll, (2) amateurishly finished sole, with wrong nails, lack of heat-wheel decorations, and generally sloppiness.

-- -- --

I hope this helps. The best thing to do is compare the fakes above with clear photos of the genuine ones (such as the ones which I have posted earlier in this thread).

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

I've had some conversations by PM with PittDoc, among others, and I would like to offer a few general thoughts on bit loafers...

1. Gucci loafers are made from leathers that are similar to what you'd find women's purses are made, i.e. soft and luxurious. However, this also means they are not going to wear as robustly as cordovan or even good calfskin. They're soft, comfy, but made for wearing on soft office carpets and in the car only, and NEVER in the rain or snow.

2. Both myself and PittDoc have noticed that the leather soles on Gucci loafers show wear pretty quickly, so again these are shoes for carpets only (unless you put rubber topy on the bottom, which is somewhat un-stylish, although practical). I imagine the AE shoes and Cole-Haans will be similar, since both are made in Italy, but I suspect the Aldens will be markedly the toughest of the lot.

2. PittDoc has found that the thick rubber lug soles on the Gucci loafers are very robust and hold up well, so I think this may be the best choice for those concerned about longevity. In any case, bit loafers are casual shoes, so lug soles are quite appropriate and give some bulk when worn with Bills, etc. I think the next pair I buy will be the lug soles. I'm no George Hamilton, but he appears to wear the lug soles exclusively (at least according to photos and movie appearances), which is good enough for me.

4. Probably the most robust bit loafer out there is the Alden Cape Cod, assuming the high quality of Alden's leathers and construction. It is, however, the least elegant to my eye.

5. AE is discontinuing their "Bruzzano" bit loafer, but it presumably will be replaced by the "Verona" in 2008, as noted by one of our members. I cannot honestly imagine why they would do this, although the new model does appear to be slightly more refined in its shape and detailing, which would be a step forward.

6. Cole-Haan has sadly shrunk their "Bennett" line down to only two models. Gone are the lug sole and suede versions which looked so great. I imagine they will cancel the remaining models soon.

Overall, I think bit loafers have a lot to offer as a casual shoe, especially when worn with the baggier, bulkier "trad" clothing we talk about in this forum. I suspect the lug soles in particular would be the best buy, given PittDoc's experiences walking around Europe, although leather soles would (in theory) be easier to replace. Gucci still leads for style, as no-one offers anything with that unique shape and proportions, and they always have the name too (for which one pays). Now that Cole-Haan has marginalized their bit loafers, I think the Alden is probably the "best bang for the buck" given their reputation for quality, although the new AE might be better for those who want more style.

In the final analysis, you have to buy what you like.

I will be continuing with Gucci, probably with the lug sole classic loafer in brown calf and suede, but that's a personal choice.

DocD


----------



## marlinspike

But has Cole Hann only marginalized their bit loafers by limiting the selection, or is the quality no good as well? I ask because I know Aldens don't fit me (even the few that do come in size 14).


----------



## Doctor Damage

I have a thousand more photos that I could post in this thread, but I'd just be repeating myself, so I will leave off with some nice shoe porn of Gucci lug soles in suede.

These are size 9D.





These are size 8.5D.





DocD


----------



## mcarthur

DD and PD-
Thank you for your comments on the bit loafers


----------



## Doctor Damage

Florsheim Imperial bit loafers.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Two pairs of seriously worn-out Alden bit loafers, size 10.5EEE, from eBay. Although these are worn-out and have seen better days, I think they're still charming...sort of like old boat shoes that one can't part with (although this guy _is_ parting with them).

The colour register is off on the middle photo -- the brown ones are the H465.


----------



## bd79cc

Doctor Damage said:


> Florsheim Imperial bit loafers.


I had a pair of Florsheim bit loafers a lot like these when I was a teenager. My favorite shoes, then. They went -clinkety-clinkety-clink- when I walked. Drove my mother nuts with rage and exasperation. Dad didn't like them, either. I gave the offending shoes to a friend for riding rights to his motorcycle. Everyone was a winner in that deal.

P.S.: Note the narrow penny-loafer-like top strap and the detail on the bit. A very cool shoe!


----------



## TMMKC

I have been trying on Guccis for several months now in hopes of finding a style that fits me better than my Aldens or Cole Haans. I did buy a "dressier" pair off a fellow AAAC member several weeks ago that fit me well, but they're not really appropriate for more casual wear.

The more classic Gucci bit loafers (and even the new "silver bit" models) seem to run very short on me. I've tried to go up a half or full size, but then the width and heel get out of whack. Is this unusual? 

Another question: I swear a previous poster said the Alden Cape Cod loafers were to be discontinued in 2008. Is that correct? If so, any ideas so to where I could grab a bargain on them? I'd love a black calf pair for my growing collection. I have no problem paying full retail for the "right" item but...like many on AAAC...I can't pass up a good deal!:icon_smile_big:

Thanks.

FYI...I just posted a pair of Gucci 11D bit loafers on AAAC for sale if anyone is interested.


----------



## Doctor Damage

TMMKC said:


> ...Another question: I swear a previous poster said the Alden Cape Cod loafers were to be discontinued in 2008. Is that correct? If so, any ideas so to where I could grab a bargain on them?


I hope not, as I'm considering a pair myself. But somehow I would not be surprised if they did, given I like them. Certainly AE has officially discontinued their "Bruzzano" bit loafer, although it will apparently be replaced by a slightly different model.

Sorry to hear about the fit issues. Gucci shoes are particularly narrow in the heel cup and have long vamps, so if you have wide and high feet they would probably be a problem.

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Alden bit loafers, both pairs are size 11E. The numbers printed on the boxes are the same, however.


----------



## topbroker

I'm a *huge *fan of bit loafers, so I'm very glad to have discovered this thread. I was sorry to recently lose an Ebay auction on a pair of black genuine crocodile bit loafers. They were pretty snazzy.


----------



## TMMKC

If anyone is interested, I found out the discontinued AE Bruzzano can be had directly through AE at 30 percent off. With shipping, you can get a very fine bit loafer for less than $200! 

Note: Look at previous pages to this thread, you will find that Bruzzanos run short.


----------



## Doctor Damage

TMMKC said:


> If anyone is interested, I found out the discontinued AE Bruzzano can be had directly through AE at 30 percent off. With shipping, you can get a very fine bit loafer for less than $200!


...and as TMMKC has pointed out Jos Bank is currently offering the Cole-Haan "Ascot II" bit loafer on sale, a very classic looking shoe, although the AE "Bruzzano" is presumably the better shoe. Here is a comparison of the Cole-Haan "Bennett" (top) with the new Cole-Haan "Ascot II" (below).

DocD


----------



## marlinspike

Are Cole Haan good like Johnston&Murphy is good, or are they good like a good shoe company (though obviously not like Alden)?


----------



## TMMKC

marlinspike said:


> Are Cole Haan good like Johnston&Murphy is good, or are they good like a good shoe company (though obviously not like Alden)?


Cole Haan used to be better, I assume when most of their shoes were made in Maine. It's kind of the same story with J&M. I would say, for the most part, both shoe makers are now "good, but by no means great." That told, it doesn't stop me from buying casual shoes from J&M, as well as the occasional Cole Haan every few years.


----------



## Doctor Damage

marlinspike said:


> Are Cole Haan good like Johnston&Murphy is good, or are they good like a good shoe company (though obviously not like Alden)?


I think most would agree with the former: good shoes, but not Alden or AE (or Gucci). But at the sale price Jos. Bank is currently offering, why not? Much better than most other shoes at a $129 price point.

DocD


----------



## marlinspike

Doctor Damage said:


> But at the sale price Jos. Bank is currently offering, why not?


I'm of the philosophy that it is better to have 3 high quality things than 10 low quality things. I guess I can scratch Cole Haan off my list...probably wouldn't have fit me comfortably anyways (to date, no Alden, AE, Martegani, J&M, or Moreschi has fit me without pain...lucky me). Might as well put the $129 towards a pair of Koronyas.

I guess maybe I should ask this though: how does Cole Haan compare to Magnanni? Most here don't hold Magnanni in high esteem, but as they are the only brand I've tried so far that makes a last that comes close to fitting me, I've settled for them in the mean time and they seem better than I would have thought given the comments on them here.


----------



## Doctor Damage

One of our members was kind enough to send me this photo comparing the current Gucci "classic" bit loafer with the Alden flex-welt bit loafer.



DocD


----------



## Bob_Brooks

^The Gucci is such a better looking shoe IMHO. I may be a bit biased as I just bought the Guccis.


----------



## TMMKC

Bob_Brooks said:


> ^The Gucci is such a better looking shoe IMHO.


I tend to agree...and I'm a big Alden fan! I've actually tried on that Alden model before. It's not nearly a refined looking as the Gucci, obviously (look at the sole). It also has a fairly high vamp, which I though was a little uncomfortable. The leathers on the Alden are very nice, but I think that particular shoe would need some breaking in.


----------



## ds23pallas

*Gucci vs. Alden*

Hello everyone,

The side by side bit loafers pictured above belong to me (thank you for posting, DD!). Perhaps I can offer my experiences with the two makes:

Both pairs are quite recent acquisitions but I have had other Gucci loafers in the past. I picked up this brown pair on sale for something under $300 (CDN). I find the heel too high for my tastes, but one becomes used to that with use. 

As an Alden fan, I was curious to try their version of the bit loafer. My local Alden shop has a very knowledgeable staff and they thought that I would enjoy the flex-welt over the Cape Cod version, given my shoe preferences in the past. I prefer the Gucci for looks and lounging about, but the Alden provides a much longer lasting comfort, at least for me and my use. 

The break-in period for the Alden was negligible, certainly less than with my shell cordovan LHS. The leather is very soft. 

P.S. Excellent forum! I joined ages ago but normally look in only occasionally to do a search for any questions I may have. 

ds23pallas


----------



## eagle2250

ds23pallas said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> The side by side bit loafers pictured above belong to me (thank you for posting, DD!). Perhaps I can offer my experiences with the two makes:
> 
> As an Alden fan, I was curious to try their version of the bit loafer. My local Alden shop has a very knowledgeable staff and they thought that I would enjoy the flex-welt over the Cape Cod version, given my shoe preferences in the past. I prefer the Gucci for looks and lounging about, but the Alden provides a much longer lasting comfort, at least for me and my use.
> 
> The break-in period for the Alden was negligible, certainly less than with my shell cordovan LHS. The leather is very soft. ...


Thanks ds23pallas for a very timely first post. Your experience with your local Alden dealer, very closely mirrors the exchange I had with the vendor when I ordered my first Alden bit loafers from Shoemart, this past week. Looking at my past purchasing historyfrom them , they strongly recommended the "flex-welt over the Cape Cod version." I'm giving both a try but, suspect the flex-welt will be my final choice...I just prefer a more substantial shoe that offers more support to my feet. I do hope to see you posting more in the future!

For other posters/ TMMKC, did AE offer their Bruzzano model in any color, other than black? If it was offered in Chestnut or dark brown and I can find a pair still in the factory store system, they may be my second pair of Bit loafers!


----------



## Doctor Damage

ds23pallas said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> The side by side bit loafers pictured above belong to me (thank you for posting, DD!)...
> 
> ...P.S. Excellent forum! I joined ages ago but normally look in only occasionally to do a search for any questions I may have.
> 
> ds23pallas


Glad you posted, you have a lot of good info to contribute. Certainly you're one of the few Canadians with a good collection of Aldens and you even have a store nearby (I have to cross the border to O'Connells).

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

eagle2250 said:


> For other posters/ TMMKC, did AE offer their Bruzzano model in any color, other than black? If it was offered in Chestnut or dark brown and I can find a pair still in the factory store system, they may be my second pair of Bit loafers!


Let me make a guess that the brown colours have not been offered for a few years, just black. I doubt you will find any new ones in the system, but black is good too!

From watching eBay, I've noticed that the Bruzzano were available in black calf, tan calf, black suede, and brown suede.

DocD


----------



## eagle2250

Thanks DodD for the prompt reply...Ill be keeping my eyes on the Bay and perhaps give a black pair a turn around the shoe store! Thanks again.


----------



## 1gunner

Doctor Damage said:


> Thanks, spin! Are you an AE insider, or something?
> 
> Except for the bit, those look identical to a model Gucci recently had for a season or two, which I sadly missed. Basically a revival of an older model. I agree with TMMKC about the bit, but I guess that could easily be changed with an AE replacement bit from the Bruzzano or maybe an Alden bit of the same size.
> 
> DocD


Are you saying that the bit can be swapped? This is important to me because as I've been shopping for black shoes I found myself by far prefering the looks of a silver bit over the traditional gold which limits my choices. If this is possible I opt for a pair of Aldens and just simply swap the gold bit for silver.


----------



## TMMKC

1gunner said:


> I've been shopping for black shoes I found myself by far prefering the looks of a silver bit over the traditional gold which limits my choices.


The Bruzzano has a silver bit, and I believe it's a little bigger than the Alden bit...closer to Gucci in size. To my knowledge, and DocD can probably shed more light on this, the AE bit loafers (both the Bruzzano and its replacement) are the only widely available bit loafer with a silver bit like the Gucci. The Gucci bit loafers I own have a high vamp and are very sleek and dressy...quite different than the "classic" model. But they have a silver bit too.

Considering I can get such a good deal on the Bruzzanos right now, I am tempted to get a pair. I'll have to report back if I pull the trigger.


----------



## 1gunner

Yes, the AE Bruzanno has the silver bit but the vamp is too high for my liking. I love the proportions of the Alden Cape Cod the best so if I could convert the gold bit to a silver I would be set. Does anyone know if Alden have a custom program?


----------



## TMMKC

1gunner said:


> Yes, the AE Bruzanno...vamp is too high for my liking.


Interesting...I have never heard that about the Bruzzano. How's the heel?


----------



## Bob_Brooks

Just came across this Bit Loafer. Are Johnston & Murphy Shoes worth $295?

https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/catalog_detail.aspx?PLOID=55251&SEARCH=HENTON


----------



## Ron_A

Bob_Brooks said:


> Just came across this Bit Loafer. Are Johnston & Murphy Shoes worth $295?
> 
> https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/catalog_detail.aspx?PLOID=55251&SEARCH=HENTON


Based on my experience with J&M, I would say no, they're not worth $295.

I received a JAB sale catalog in the mail, and these Cole Haan bit loafers are marked down to $130 (I have no idea if they're a good deal, but they seem relatively inexpensive).

https://www.josbank.com/IWCatProduc...=1&Section_Id=16791&pcount=&Product_Id=417433


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Ron_A said:


> Based on my experience with J&M, I would say no, they're not worth $295.
> 
> I received a JAB sale catalog in the mail, and these Cole Haan bit loafers are marked down to $130 (I have no idea if they're a good deal, but they seem relatively inexpensive).
> 
> https://www.josbank.com/IWCatProduc...=1&Section_Id=16791&pcount=&Product_Id=417433


Those are inexpensive, but please notice that they are the Ascot II model, not the better Cole Haan bit models like the Bennett. This model is only $175 at full price.

I do not have experience with those shoes, but I have seen them at places like Filenes and have been very unimpressed in the looks. The price is attractive though.


----------



## TMMKC

Bob_Brooks said:


> Just came across this Bit Loafer. Are Johnston & Murphy Shoes worth $295?
> 
> https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/catalog_detail.aspx?PLOID=55251&SEARCH=HENTON


If you really like that style, get it...though I think you could get a better made loafer for less money IMO. Alden Cape Cods, for example, are around $260. You can get the AE Bruzzano for less than $200, as it has been discontinued. J&M shoes, by in large, have become so hit-and-miss during the past several years.

Regarding the Cole Haan Ascot II...I suspect it's a (relative) "value-priced" model Cole Haan made specifically for JAB. DocD did point out that some of the stiching on the Ascot II is a little more refined than the Bennet model (stiching on the Ascot II being similar to stitching on Guccis). All that told, for $130, I suspect the Ascot II would still turn out to be a good shoe for the money if you take care of it and treat it kindly in the shoe rotation.


----------



## eagle2250

TMMKC said:


> If you really like that style, get it...though I think you could get a better made loafer for less money IMO. Alden Cape Cods, for example, are around $260.


During Shoemart's January sale, the Alden Cape Cod Bit loafers can be had for right at $220, and change. I think the sale goes through the end of January.


----------



## Cleveland Brown

*Cole Haan Ascot II*

If anyone has a Sym's near to them, the Ascot2 is going for $55. That's pretty hard to beat.


----------



## TMMKC

As a little experiment and out of curiosity, I ordered the black Cole Haan Ascot II from JAB online. I found the 11D, my regular size, ran short and a little tight around the instep.

For the price, I would say they are "decent" for the (sale) price but by no means on par with Aldens, Guccis of AEs. Made in India too. The construction is much more like a dress shoe (as opposed to the moc construction of the Alden), the leathers are okay and have a nice finish to them. 

I returned the shoes to a JAB store and tried on the 11 1/2...much better. I decided to keep them. I have taken to only packing loafers when I travel anymore...lace-ups are way too much trouble in an airport. My loafers see a lot of duty!

On a scale of 1 to 10 (ten being the very best), I'd give the Cole Haan Ascot II a strong 6.


----------



## Cleveland Brown

I think TMM has a good assessment. I bought a pair of the black ones from Syms for $55. I think they are back up to $79 now.

These aren't by any means the best shoes I own but I like them for travelling. Will take with me next week to Asia. I like these because if they get roughed up, it's no great loss but they still look nice enough. I also like to stick with loafers when travelling. 

These do run small. I normally take a #9 in most brands but for these I use a #10. Still, for the price it's a good deal. Especially if you'd like to do as I plan to do and save a bit for a pair of Alden or Gucci (still trying to decide).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Cleveland Brown said:


> These do run small. I normally take a #9 in most brands but for these I use a #10.


Those sizes reflect my experience with Cole Haan (not the bit loafers, though). I need to go up at least 1/2 size on Cole Haans, for some reason.



> Especially if you'd like to do as I plan to do and save a bit for a pair of Alden or Gucci (still trying to decide).


They both have their good points and bad points. Gucci fits me better, but the Aldens come in a dark brown leather which is amazing.

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here is our first view of the AE Verona horsebit loafers, which apparently replace the Bruzzano. In the montage below the Verona is in the left column and I have added the Bruzzano in the right column for comparison. The Verona appears to have a slightly higher vamp and heel, making them resemble Gucci more than did the Bruzzano, but we shall have to see them in person. I hope they aren't glossy as in these photos (equanlo's photos from the Chicago collective indicated that they have less of a sheen in real life -- see previous posts in this thread).



I shall definitely be getting a pair of these.

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's the same shoe in dark brown calf:



Apparently the style numbers are 49600 (black calf) and 49602 (dark brown calf). Hopefully at some point they do suede versions.

DocD


----------



## LeatherSOUL

Here's the updated Alden Flex Bit ala LHS:



















I like it.


----------



## marlinspike

Doctor Damage said:


> More bit loafers for the Alden fans. Below is the H467, apparently. I like the pebble-grain leather, but the vamp is too low for my tastes.


I was going to post that I couldn't believe there were no proper pictures of the Cape Cods on here in non-suede, but I searched and found these. I just wanted to point out that I sometimes have an issue with low vamps digging into the top of my foot, but in the case of these shoes it's a bit of an optical illusion. If you look at them headon, you see they rise steeply going towards the inside of the foot so it doesn't fit like a shoe with a low vamp.


----------



## Doctor Damage

marlinspike said:


> I was going to post that I couldn't believe there were no proper pictures of the Cape Cods on here in non-suede, but I searched and found these. I just wanted to point out that I sometimes have an issue with low vamps digging into the top of my foot, but in the case of these shoes it's a bit of an optical illusion. If you look at them headon, you see they rise steeply going towards the inside of the foot so it doesn't fit like a shoe with a low vamp.


Sorry, when I say "low vamp" I mean the vamp does not extend high up the instep. Cole Haan is a good example of this.

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

This pair of AE Bruzzano's is currently being sold on eBay, size 10D. The style is 49761, discontinued of course.


----------



## marlinspike

This may interest one here since IIRC Doctor Damage posted that it might be unwise to keep trees in Alden cape cod loafers. Here is word from Alden on trees in cape cod loafers and on Topys

"You can use cedar trees in the Cape Cod shoes, however it is best to use a tree small enough that it does not require more than minimal effort to place in the shoes. Use of a larger tree will result in stretching. We also recommend against use of Topy sole guards on any slip-on shoes, as the additional layer of material will affect the shoe's ability to flex as you walk, compromising fit and perhaps leading to stretching."


----------



## TMMKC

marlinspike said:


> This may interest one here since IIRC Doctor Damage posted that it might be unwise to keep trees in Alden cape cod loafers. Here is word from Alden on trees in cape cod loafers and on Topys
> 
> "You can use cedar trees in the Cape Cod shoes, however it is best to use a tree small enough that it does not require more than minimal effort to place in the shoes. Use of a larger tree will result in stretching. We also recommend against use of Topy sole guards on any slip-on shoes, as the additional layer of material will affect the shoe's ability to flex as you walk, compromising fit and perhaps leading to stretching."


Interesting...thanks. I have some slightly smaller trees I may start putting in my Cape Cods (as I have noticed some stretching). Though the stretching wasn't awful, I am now considering putting some tongue pads in the shoes to take up a little room. Good idea? Bad idea?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Good info, marlinspike. I agree the Alden cape cod leather is so soft it would probably stretch easily, especially if the shoe trees are left in for a long time.

But regarding topy, I am never quite convinced. The reason being is that moccasin stitching connects the uppers directly with the sole. Once that stitching is worn through, then how do they re-stitch it? I understand special machines exist, but I'm not sure how effective that is as a retrofit. I do recognize that the topy makes the soles stiffer, at least initially, so I only put it on after the shoes are well and truly worn and are in danger of wearing through. The super-thin "women's" topy is very flexible. But that's an old fight and one I'm not going to indulge in here!

To everyone: buy the Alden bit loafers. The dark brown is particularly magnificent. I think I will eventually go back to O'Connells and get them to order the size I need. In fact, I should have done that instead of buying the tassel loafers, but we learn by doing.

DocD


----------



## ds23pallas

To everyone: buy the Alden bit loafers. The dark brown is particularly magnificent. I think I will eventually go back to O'Connells and get them to order the size I need. In fact, I should have done that instead of buying the tassel loafers, but we learn by doing.

DocD[/quote]

DD,

Are you considering the Cape Cod or the Flex-Welt? I am heading to San Francisco this weekend and will try a pair of the Cape Cod in black (my local Alden shop doesn't carry the bit loafer as an in-stock item). I am not interested in purchasing the Classic Gucci bit loafer again (I have 2 pair).

ds23pallas


----------



## marlinspike

Doctor Damage said:


> But regarding topy, I am never quite convinced. The reason being is that moccasin stitching connects the uppers directly with the sole. Once that stitching is worn through, then how do they re-stitch it?


The cobbler I used back when I was in DC had done it time and time again on the same pair of Bologna stitched shoes without issue. As I understand it, they have similar construction.


----------



## Doctor Damage

ds23pallas said:


> Are you considering the Cape Cod or the Flex-Welt? I am heading to San Francisco this weekend and will try a pair of the Cape Cod in black (my local Alden shop doesn't carry the bit loafer as an in-stock item). I am not interested in purchasing the Classic Gucci bit loafer again (I have 2 pair).
> 
> ds23pallas


The cape cod version is in my view the best. But then I am not really keen on the Van last, or whatever the other is on, and I also don't like heavier, welted shoes much these days (which is just a personal thing). More objectively, the cape cod is super-cheap considering the quality of that shoe (probably the same for the whole cap cod range), and I will never stop saying that the dark brown calfskin is amazing. The dark brown calfskin is amazing, by the way. Hopefully I didn't forget to mention the dark brown calf is amazing.

I did find the sizing to be strange (thank you Ethan, for putting up with me), but then Alden sizing is all over the map as others here have found. I wear an 11D in the tassel loafer, but a 9.5EEE in the Indy Boot is too big for me. I suspect I am a 10E in the cape cod bit loafer, but I'm not sure yet.



marlinspike said:


> The cobbler I used back when I was in DC had done it time and time again on the same pair of Bologna stitched shoes without issue. As I understand it, they have similar construction.


Interesting. I will have to ask around.

DocD


----------



## marlinspike

I liked my black ones so much I bought a pair of dark brown ones a couple of weeks later. I'll probably get a pair in cognac eventually, but I'm in no hurry as I have a pair of tan with silver bits from Magnanni.

I wear a 14D in the cape cod loafer as I do with everything (well, everything that I can wear at all with my flat feet). If it helps, it seems to me to be shorter in length than the Hampton last (which I can't wear without pain, but I have tried), but not enough so to call for a downsize.


----------



## eagle2250

LeatherSOUL said:


> Here's the updated Alden Flex Bit ala LHS:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like it.


The very shoes on my feet, as I type this. I agree with LeatherSoul's opinion regarding another Alden model....I love these shoes, very comfortable! Thanks for the pic, Tom.


----------



## TMMKC

eagle2250 said:


> The very shoes on my feet, as I type this. I agree with LeatherSoul's opinion regarding another Alden model....I love these shoes, very comfortable! Thanks for the pic, Tom.


Those are beautiful shoes. Maybe its my screen but are those bits gold or silver? I don't recall Alden using silver bits.

BTW...slightly off-topic...I bought a pair of Cole Haan Ascot II bits on sale at JAB out of curiosity a couple weeks ago. I wore them on a business trip and found they are incredibly comfortable and the leather really holds a shine. Obviously they're not on par with my Alden or many other makes, but I have to admit I was impressed with what $130 got me.


----------



## marlinspike

The flexwelt ones have silver bits. Yet another reason to favor the cape cod IMHO.


----------



## eagle2250

TMMKC said:


> Those are beautiful shoes. Maybe its my screen but are those bits gold or silver? I don't recall Alden using silver bits...





marlinspike said:


> The flexwelt ones have silver bits. Yet another reason to favor the cape cod IMHO.


The flex-welt bit loafers I purchased from Shoemart last month have gold tone bits. I bought mine in brown...perhaps that made a difference. I also considered a pair of the Cape Cod bits for a couple of weeks but, they allowed my foot to slip a bit, laterally, and the flex-welts did not. So I kept the flex-welts! If the Cape Cod version had provided a better fit, I would have kept both.


----------



## marlinspike

eagle2250 said:


> The flex-welt bit loafers I purchased from Shoemart last month have gold tone bits. I bought mine in brown...perhaps that made a difference. I also considered a pair of the Cape Cod bits for a couple of weeks but, they allowed my foot to slip a bit, laterally, and the flex-welts did not. So I kept the flex-welts! If the Cape Cod version had provided a better fit, I would have kept both.


Hmmm...maybe I've confused them with the AE's? I've looked at so many bit loafers, I've started to lose track.


----------



## LeatherSOUL

The flex bit is silver on the black model, gold on the others.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Some guy on eBay is selling these AE Verona bit loafers, in colours that they are not offered. So they must be fakes, but who the hell would bother to fake Allen Edmonds shoes?

DocD


----------



## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> Some guy on eBay is selling these AE Verona bit loafers, in colours that they are not offered. So they must be fakes, but who the hell would bother to fake Allen Edmonds shoes? DocD


I can't imagine anyone producing AE fakes. Could they be special make-ups that were refused by the customer or left unclaimed?


----------



## jml90

Doctor Damage said:


> Some guy on eBay is selling these AE Verona bit loafers, in colours that they are not offered. So they must be fakes, but who the hell would bother to fake Allen Edmonds shoes?
> 
> DocD


If you check out the rest of his items and location, he probably goes to the shoe bank and buys closeouts and special orders that no one picked up or whatever.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Alden bit loafers, not sure of the colour (looks to be dark brown). The size is 8.5D.


----------



## TMMKC

Doctor Damage said:


> Alden bit loafers, not sure of the colour (looks to be dark brown). The size is 8.5D.


Hey! Somebody stole my shoes! I have that exact model and color. It's a great shade of brown.

I am thinking of adding tongue pads, as the (very soft) leather has stretched a little from the shoes trees. I now use trees that are a little too small for the shoes.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Major H Stanley Cayzer, 1983, photographed by Slim Aarons. This is my new favourite photo; I would like to be dressed like this all the time, plus driving the Rolls.



Donald Lease & wife, 1968, another Slim Aarons photograph. Your eyes do not deceive you: it appears Mr Lease is wearing red Gucci bit loafers with Lilly pants.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Finally, a closeup view of those Barker Black "bone" bit loafers. Not sure about leather calfskin, but in black or brown suede they look good.


----------



## marlinspike

After those beat up brown ones, and the atrocity that is Barker Black loafers, I felt someone ought to show the cape cods in a more favorable light.


See that nick in the black pair under the beefroll? Anything that can be done about that?


----------



## Doctor Damage

marlinspike said:


> After those beat up brown ones, and the atrocity that is Barker Black loafers, I felt someone ought to show the cape cods in a more favorable light.
> 
> See that nick in the black pair under the beefroll? Anything that can be done about that?


Now that is some amazing hard-core shoe porn.
Thank you, Marlinspike. That's a keeper!

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Since everyone here luuuuuuuves the Barker Blacks, here's two more photos:




Believe me, they look quite conservative in person.

DocD


----------



## Tucker

LeatherSOUL said:


> The flex bit is silver on the black model, gold on the others.


Ben Silver has a very nice picture of these in the latest catalog (along with the usual BS markup).


----------



## Carolopolis

Here is my new pair of Alden brown suede bit loafers from the Cape Cod Collection. I'm really happy with them. 

With my other Feb. acquisitions


side view



from the top


----------



## The Louche

*Two Things...*

First off I'd like to offer a ringing endorsement for the updated Gucci bit loafer. I don't understand why everyone talks about how the quality of construction is rubbish - I have had some for two and a half years now that see very hard wear. They have held up beautifully with little more than fresh taps regularly and (now their second) set of Topys. Say what you want about Topys, but I think Gucci's present a classic case for them; apply them before ever wearing, replace at first sign of wear-through, and you'll never come close to touching the factory sole. It's that simple. Maybe 20 years from now these shoes won't look so hot, but given how much I wear them, if they hold together another 8 I'll be QUITE pleased.

On a related note - anybody able to testify to the quality/durability of the Barker Black's? They ooze odd-ball style...

-The Louche :aportnoy:


----------



## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> Since everyone here luuuuuuuves the Barker Blacks, here's two more photos:
> 
> Believe me, they look quite conservative in person.
> 
> DocD


Actually, I do rather like the "chiseled toe" on the Barker Blacks. Now if they were in a nice deep brown and featured a conventional bit, I could easily see a pair of those beauties on my feet! :icon_smile:


----------



## Doctor Damage

eagle2250 said:


> Actually, I do rather like the "chiseled toe" on the Barker Blacks. Now if they were in a nice deep brown and featured a conventional bit, I could easily see a pair of those beauties on my feet! :icon_smile:


Look back through this thread, Eagle. Somewhere I posted photos of those things in chocolate brown suede and a mid-brown leather.

Nice photos, Carolopolis!

DocD


----------



## marlinspike

Are the Barker Blacks even allowed to be posted here? Those things on the front don't say anything horsey to me. Plus, they damage my eyesight a little bit each time I see them. Not to mention how they make me die a little on the inside.


----------



## Doctor Damage

marlinspike said:


> Are the Barker Blacks even allowed to be posted here? Those things on the front don't say anything horsey to me. Plus, they damage my eyesight a little bit each time I see them. Not to mention how they make me die a little on the inside.


I've seen some pretty hideous shoes posted on this forum, like everything in whiskey shell cordovan. Anyway, I started the thread, so nyah, nyah!

DocD


----------



## marlinspike

I think bit loafers in whiskey cordovan would look nice, but I'm not a fan when it's on in a lace-up either.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

How do Gucci Loafers fit?

I need a pair of black loafers, and found a Gucci pair for fairly cheap.

I'd like a pair, mainly due to their inclusion in TOPH.


----------



## 16128

The Aldens are really nice; thank you for the pictures.

My husband would wear those, but he hates Gucci bit loafers. I like Gucci's for me, however.


----------



## TMMKC

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> How do Gucci Loafers fit?
> 
> I need a pair of black loafers, and found a Gucci pair for fairly cheap.
> 
> I'd like a pair, mainly due to their inclusion in TOPH.


It depends on your foot shape, I think. I have one pair that fit me well, but they're not the "classic" style either...they have a higher vamp, slightly squared toe and a more modern looking bit (very dressy). The classic Guccis bits do not fit me well at all. It must have something to do with me having a pretty flat foot and a narrow heel. The style makes my foot slide too far forward. I suggest, if you live near a retailer that carries them (e.g. Needless Markup), go try some on.


----------



## Doctor Damage

AE Harwood; the code is 3654-1128, which I suppose means chili calf.

https://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ae229cst5.jpg 
https://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ae229dnc7.jpg 
https://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ae229bra3.jpg


----------



## ds23pallas

*Weird Weejuns*

What strange goings-on with these shoes? It looks like a bit/kiltie loafer hybrid for those who want it all. Doctor Damage, have you ever seen something like this before?


----------



## TMMKC

^Bass certianly tried to cover all the bases on that one, didn't they?


----------



## topbroker

I'd wear 'em! Weird but fun.


----------



## videocrew

TMMKC said:


> ^Bass certianly tried to cover all the bases on that one, didn't they?


It needs broguing. THEN I'd be impressed.


----------



## Topsider

TMMKC said:


> ^Bass certianly tried to cover all the bases on that one, didn't they?


All they need to do is add tassles.


----------



## Doctor Damage

ds23pallas said:


> Doctor Damage, have you ever seen something like this before?


Emphatically NO! And do you know what? I personally blame you for throwing my stomach off again. My parents brought some stomach bug back from New Mexico and I spent the last few days recovering from the vomiting and the...umm...er...anyhoo, seeing those horrible, horrible Bass loafers you posted set me off again.

Curse you, and don't ever come to Ontario. You won't be welcome.

DD


----------



## Doctor Damage

KentW said:


> All they need to do is add tassles.


Yes tassels...and perhaps a rubber lug sole. The vamp could also be in white glossy leather, like a sort of loafer-spectator shoe.

DD


----------



## spinlps

A few pics of a Gucci bit loafer for DD...


----------



## ds23pallas

*Understatement not at home here...*

"True vintage" as indicated by the ebay seller.


----------



## M. Charles

Goldfinger's shoes, no doubt.



ds23pallas said:


> "True vintage" as indicated by the ebay seller.


----------



## gstousland40

*Gucci Lug sole Loafer*

In the Fall of 2004, I purchased a pair of brown lug sole Gucci loafers at Harrods in London. They have a toe that is more pointed than the traditional Gucci loafer - pointed enough to give a little style but not so pointed that they will go out of style.

I am looking to purchase another pair but have not been able to find them anywhere. Can anyone help?

Thanks

Grant


----------



## gstousland40

You seem to be quite knowledgeable on Gucci loafers. Perhaps you can help.

In the Fall of 2004, I purchased a pair of brown lug sole Gucci loafers at Harrods in London. They have a toe that is more pointed than the traditional Gucci loafer - pointed enough to give a little style but not so pointed that they will go out of style.

I am looking to purchase another pair but have not been able to find them anywhere. 

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Grant


----------



## MarcDavidMiller

ds23pallas said:


> "True vintage" as indicated by the ebay seller.


Studio 54, before the drug raid; Margaret Trudeau with neither panties nor Pierre. Memories...


----------



## Doctor Damage

MarcDavidMiller said:


> Studio 54, before the drug raid; *Margaret Trudeau with neither panties* nor Pierre. Memories...


I remember that infamous photo of Margaret, which demonstrated so clearly why the beaver is Canada's national animal. God, she was hot in those days...

(Google has failed to find any online copy of that photo. I have it in an old issue of FRANK magazine, but I think scanning and disseminating it would be a bit twisted, even for me. Trust me, it's a great photo.)



gstousland40 said:


> In the Fall of 2004, I purchased a pair of brown lug sole Gucci loafers at Harrods in London. They have a toe that is more pointed than the traditional Gucci loafer - pointed enough to give a little style but not so pointed that they will go out of style.
> 
> I am looking to purchase another pair but have not been able to find them anywhere.
> 
> Any help is appreciated.


I think I know the ones you're describing. They were the 115316 model and were only around for a couple of seasons a few years ago (2004/05). They were available in brown & black, calf and suede, with leather and rubber soles. Unfortunately, they are no longer available so you are out of luck. I think I may have posted some photos of them earlier in this thread.

I keep hoping the new design direction at Gucci leads to a retro classic horsebit loafer, but I suspect they will keep the Tom Ford-ian version with the 1" heels and bulky toebox.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Alden for Brooks Brothers.


----------



## Duck

Doc, they look like a bit driving moc. I love bit loafers but something might stop me from those. Hope all is well

Question for you doc, how many pairs of bits do you own?


----------



## Lieutenant

I had been looking at bit loafers for years, and this info as pushed me over the edge to pick up a pair of the AE Bruzzano in Brandy. Now, any suggestions on how casual I can dress these without being offensive? For example, would jeans and a nice alpaca sweater be too casual? Where is the line with these bits?

Thanks Doc and others for the education.


----------



## TMMKC

Lieutenant said:


> I had been looking at bit loafers for years, and this info as pushed me over the edge to pick up a pair of the AE Bruzzano in Brandy. Now, any suggestions on how casual I can dress these without being offensive? For example, would jeans and a nice alpaca sweater be too casual? Where is the line with these bits?
> 
> Thanks Doc and others for the education.


I think bits are very versatile. I wear mine with everything (including shorts) except suits and dinner jackets...though I am tempted to try it with some of my "dressier" models. To answer your question...you should be able to wear them with jeans (I wear my brown Aldens with jeans all the time).


----------



## eagle2250

^ I will second TMMKC's endorsement for wearing bit loafers with jeans, as well as with chinos and most other casual trousers. I also wear my Alden flex-welt, bit loafers with poplin summer suits, but don't think I would try them with anything more formal.


----------



## Lieutenant

I see. I look forward to putting some outfits together once they arrive. At any time would you wear them without socks, like a boat shoe?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Lieutenant said:


> I see. I look forward to putting some outfits together once they arrive. At any time would you wear them without socks, like a boat shoe?


Probably never. Photos that I've seen suggest sockless would be a somewhat effeminate choice. Remember, although quite casual, bit loafers will always be more "dressy" than boat shoes, etc.


----------



## Speas

Lewis Grizzard, the late humour writer from Georgia, exclusively wore Gucci loafers sockless. Not my style, but I wouldnt have call him effete.


----------



## The Louche

I wear my Gucci bits (Tom Ford model from 2005) sockless. I think it adds to the rather middle finger vibe they can give off if someone so chooses...

I wouldn't say the look is effete if it's done correctly.


----------



## Sartre

Doctor Damage said:


> I keep hoping the new design direction at Gucci leads to a retro classic horsebit loafer, but I suspect they will keep the Tom Ford-ian version with the 1" heels and bulky toebox.


The Gucci flagship store in NYC still sells the "old" version (lower heel, pointier toe) that I know from the late 70s/early 80s. I got these last year.


----------



## Lieutenant

Thanks for the info..I will wear socks with them). They just came in today (Allen Edmonds Bruzzano) and I have mixed feelings. They look great, they fit ok (I almost feel like my heel isnt centered over the shoe's heel) but most importantly, as it seems with many allen edmonds I have purchased, that stiching is sometimes and issue. The left shoe has a cut loop that allows the leather upper (under the bit to the side) to stick out a little more than the right shoe. I'm sure it's an easy fix for a cobbler, but just annoying when it comes from AE. That being said, it looks great and in my size at a discount, so no returns here)


----------



## Doctor Damage

Some of you may be interested in the Ferragamo "Rich" model, which is pretty conservative for that company. It looks like an updated version of the long-discontinued "Faro" model which was their classic model for a long time prior to their designs becoming weird.

This is a current model as far as I can tell. Needless Markup and Nordstrom both carry it in various colours. I like the rounded, normal toebox and the low heel.


----------



## SCsailor

The lines of the above shoe look great to me, but the bit is too much IMHO. Thanks for the post.


----------



## DonV

Doctor Damage said:


> I think the best & most functional colour would be black in calfskin; leave suede for later once you're comfortable with the style.


I'm hoping to pick up a pair of bit loafers soon, and I can't decide between dark brown and black calf.

Black seems more 'right' somehow, but maybe this board has poisoned me against black shoes. I think I would likely wear the black ones with jeans, gray trousers (with fun socks), or dark suits, if I wear them with suits at all. Maybe even tan trousers, if that works out.

I'd probably wear the dark brown with jeans and gray or tan trousers. I suspect if I had any 'fun'-colored chinos or cords (red, yellow, orange) brown might work better but I could be proven wrong. (I think you had a photo of a gentlemen with a Rolls Royce, navy blazer, red trousers, and black bit loafers).

Any thoughts?


----------



## eagle2250

DonV said:


> I'm hoping to pick up a pair of bit loafers soon, and I can't decide between dark brown and black calf... Any thoughts?


The decision seems so difficult because, you really need one of each, with a third pair in chestnut calf. Problem solved!  A glance at my shoe racks would lead one to believe that this suggestion was not offered in jest!


----------



## Got Shell?

DonV said:


> I'm hoping to pick up a pair of bit loafers soon, and I can't decide between dark brown and black calf.
> 
> Black seems more 'right' somehow, but maybe this board has poisoned me against black shoes. I think I would likely wear the black ones with jeans, gray trousers (with fun socks), or dark suits, if I wear them with suits at all. Maybe even tan trousers, if that works out.
> 
> I'd probably wear the dark brown with jeans and gray or tan trousers. I suspect if I had any 'fun'-colored chinos or cords (red, yellow, orange) brown might work better but I could be proven wrong. (I think you had a photo of a gentlemen with a Rolls Royce, navy blazer, red trousers, and black bit loafers).
> 
> Any thoughts?


Black seems more elegant, but I've seen someone that looked great with khaki shorts and black bit loafers. I like both black and brown bit loafers, including suede brown.


----------



## TMMKC

Got Shell? said:


> Black seems more elegant, but I've seen someone that looked great with khaki shorts and black bit loafers. I like both black and brown bit loafers, including suede brown.


I suggest you start with brown calf and expand from there. Black calf next. Then brown suede.


----------



## Doctor Damage

TMMKC said:


> I suggest you start with brown calf and expand from there. Black calf next. Then brown suede.


That seems like sound advice. Save the black suede for visits to the city only. I suspect the best value will be the Alden Cape Cod bit loafers.


----------



## DonV

Doctor Damage said:


> That seems like sound advice. Save the black suede for visits to the city only. I suspect the best value will be the Alden Cape Cod bit loafers.


I just placed an order on Amazon for the Allen-Edmonds Verona. I liked the Cape Cod; it's been a while since I've seen it in person but I think I might have preferred the Verona last time I had a chance to see both in one day.

My original plan was to get it in dark brown, but as Amazon is currently selling the black one for $130, it was a little hard to pass up.

I should have it in a week or so, but I'll have to find some tongue pads since it was slightly looser than I prefer.


----------



## Doctor Damage

John DeLorean...

https://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dmcpublicityphotoir3.jpg


----------



## Ron_A

DonV said:


> I just placed an order on Amazon for the Allen-Edmonds Verona. I liked the Cape Cod; it's been a while since I've seen it in person but I think I might have preferred the Verona last time I had a chance to see both in one day.
> 
> My original plan was to get it in dark brown, but as Amazon is currently selling the black one for $130, it was a little hard to pass up.
> 
> I should have it in a week or so, but I'll have to find some tongue pads since it was slightly looser than I prefer.


The black AE Verona deal on Amazon seems almost too good to pass up. (The deal still appears to be running - $130 for a pair of Veronas in black calf.)

That said, since I mainly wear khakis in my "down time" (and I would not wear these shoes with a suit), I am questioning whether it even makes sense to purchase a pair of black shoes mainly for casual wear. How do others feel about pairing black bit loafers with khakis/chinos?


----------



## smujd

Ron_A said:


> The black AE Verona deal on Amazon seems almost too good to pass up. (The deal still appears to be running - $130 for a pair of Veronas in black calf.)
> 
> That said, since I mainly wear khakis in my "down time" (and I would not wear these shoes with a suit), I am questioning whether it even makes sense to purchase a pair of black shoes mainly for casual wear. How do others feel about pairing black bit loafers with khakis/chinos?


Agree that it is a great deal at $130. Despite the rather strong (and somewhat confusing) anti-black shoe bias on this forum, I wear black loafers with jeans, khakis/chinos, slacks, and shorts.


----------



## The Louche

I'd wear black bit loafers out at night with jeans. To the bar. Sinatra ONLY wore black shoes after six. I'd say your safe taking all of your sartorial advice from Sinatra.


----------



## TMMKC

The Louche said:


> I'd wear black bit loafers out at night with jeans. To the bar. Sinatra ONLY wore black shoes after six. I'd say your safe taking all of your sartorial advice from Sinatra.


From experience, I think black loafers only look good with darker wash jeans.

"You gotta love livin', baby, because dyin' is a pain in the ass." 
-- The Chairman of The Board


----------



## The Louche

^ Good talk!


----------



## Tom Buchanan

It seems that John McCain is taking heat for wearing Ferragamo loafers, or as the blogs say, "$520 loafers".

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/isabel-wilkinson/a-week-in-john-mccains-sh_b_115692.html


----------



## Sartre

Tom Buchanan said:


> It seems that John McCain is taking heat for wearing Ferragamo loafers, or as the blogs say, "$520 loafers".
> 
> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/isabel-wilkinson/a-week-in-john-mccains-sh_b_115692.html


I guess they've forgotten that in 2004 John Kerry spent $64,000 in ties from Vineyard Vines ...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Sartre said:


> I guess they've forgotten that in 2004 John Kerry spent $64,000 in ties from Vineyard Vines ...


I hope to God it was a custom design ordered for his entire campaign team...?


----------



## TMMKC

Does anyone know if Gucci still makes these? I am going to be in Vegas in September and was planning stop by the Gucci store in Caesars Palace to buy a pair. However, I don't see this model on their Web site. 

It's been some time since I have been in a Gucci store. Do they have different/additional merchandise in the brick and mortar stores than online? If they no longer make it, I may buy the Alden model. Thanks.


----------



## aikon

Of course the still sell them. I highly suggest you pick up a pair. 

I also think they are on the website under "Classics"


----------



## Sartre

TMMKC said:


> ...It's been some time since I have been in a Gucci store. *Do they have different/additional merchandise in the brick and mortar stores than online?* If they no longer make it, I may buy the Alden model. Thanks.


The NYC flagship store certainly does. I cannot speak for the other stores.

TJS


----------



## TMMKC

aikon said:


> Of course the still sell them. I highly suggest you pick up a pair.
> 
> I also think they are on the website under "Classics"


Hummm...I probably didn't dig enough on the site. Thanks. That's good to know because I've been eyeing them for a couple months now.


----------



## Clay J

Not to dig up a thread, but I just found a few odd Gucci bit varieties at home...


----------



## Ron_A

^ I'm always happy to see this thread resuscitated. I like the first pair, even though the Gucci ribbon is a bit over the top.

I actually just received my first pair of bit loafers a few days ago. They are AE Verona in dark brown calf. I like them, but for some reason my wife HATES them...Hopefully she'll get used to them.

In any case, they are a bit more formal looking in person than I had imagined. From reading this (and other threads), it's my understanding that it's appropriate to wear them with khakis and even jeans on occasion. However, I'm not sure that I feel quite right about doing so -- they seem too elegant to pair with broken-in khakis (and certainly too nice to wear with jeans). I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this. Is the Verona a little more formal than other versions (e.g., Alden Cape Cod)?


----------



## Sartre

^ The hell with the loafers, that's a good looking sport coat collection.

tjs


----------



## TMMKC

Ron_A said:


> I actually just received my first pair of bit loafers a few days ago. They are AE Verona in dark brown calf. I like them, but for some reason my wife HATES them...Hopefully she'll get used to them.
> 
> In any case, they are a bit more formal looking in person than I had imagined. From reading this (and other threads), it's my understanding that it's appropriate to wear them with khakis and even jeans on occasion. However, I'm not sure that I feel quite right about doing so -- they seem too elegant to pair with broken-in khakis (and certainly too nice to wear with jeans). I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this. Is the Verona a little more formal than other versions (e.g., Alden Cape Cod)?


I pulled the trigger today on my third pair of bits in as many months (brown suede Alden Cape Cods). I went back and forth on whether to get another pair of Guccis, but I honestly think the Aldens fit me better and are more durable.

Ron, your wife will come around. Mine was a little skeptical when she saw mine at first, but once she saw how I wore them -- and I had a chance to explain they hold a certain "old school" charm for me (bad description but it's the best I can do) -- she was fine.

You are entirely correct in saying the Verona is probably a bit too dressy for broken-in khakis and most jeans, but I bet they'd look fine if paired with darker wash "dress" denim. I like the Alden models because I can confidently wear them with slacks/tie/sportscoat combo, khakis or jeans. However, unlike your Veronas, they would not look good at all with a suit.


----------



## Ron_A

^ Thanks for the feedback, TMMKC.


----------



## The Louche

I'm a big devotee to Gucci bits for their total versatility, Ron. I think they go with everything from odd trouser/blazer/tie to jeans, nicer khakis, and shorts. I can see how you would think they are too formal for khakis, but the problem is easily solved by choosing nicer khakis and wearing with an OCBD, tie, and blazer. Its trad with a twist.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Pair of old Gucci loafers, in a perfect brown colour.

https://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vintage66ayx5.jpghttps://g.imageshack.us/thpix.phphttps://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vintage66bbp8.jpghttps://g.imageshack.us/thpix.phphttps://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vintage66cmd2.jpghttps://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php


----------



## CrackedCrab

^^those are very nice, do they still make that model?


----------



## Tucker

From O'Connell's...Alden flex-welt bit with Vibram sole.


----------



## eagle2250

^With a pair of the Alden flex-welt bit loafers in the 'stable', I find myself strangely attracted to the model with the vibram sole...never seen that offering before!


----------



## ze_ant

*Thank you!*

Thank you, Doctor Damage.

I just stumbled onto this thread and am pleased to discover that my 3 pairs of Gucci loafers are all from the "classic" range:-

1 x black leather with silver bit and 1 x black suede with brushed gold bit 110 009/3 and 1 x light brown with silver bit 155182 :icon_smile_big:


----------



## nringo

My Nordstrom Rack got a big shipment of Allen Edmonds in this past week. I picked up these today:



AE Pasadena.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Good posts, everyone.

I saw the latest James Bond movie last night and was pleased to see the villain was wearing classic Gucci bit loafers in brown suede with lug soles. Unfortunately, Bond took a fire axe and split one open in the climactic fight, which was upsetting.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I just noticed these two photos on Flickr.com. They are not related, i.e. not posted by the same photographer.

https://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=newyork1.jpg

https://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gucci1c.jpg


----------



## cycliste1

Doctor Damage said:


> Good posts, everyone.
> 
> I saw the latest James Bond movie last night and was pleased to see the villain was wearing classic Gucci bit loafers in brown suede with lug soles. Unfortunately, Bond took a fire axe and split one open in the climactic fight, which was upsetting.


I remember the loafers from the movie as well. They are my least favorite of the bits. They are kind of clunky looking. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't refuse a pair as a gift. I have brown suede classic Guccis and a pair of driving mocs. I also have the Alden Cape Cods in brown.

I have always wanted the brown classic bit loafer but am concerned that they are ostentatious. Like a flashy Rolex on my feet. Someday I will bite the bullet and get them. Maybe this spring.


----------



## TMMKC

Tucker said:


> From O'Connell's...Alden flex-welt bit with Vibram sole.


Excellent choice and a beautiful shoe, Tucker. Just when I thought I was done buying bit loafers for awhile, I get reeled back in!:devil:


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I bought a secondhand pair of Cape Cods on ebay (entered a low bid and was surprised when no one ever outbid me), and really love them.
One of the most comfortable shoes I've worn, and to be honest I prefer them to the Gucci bits (they look more trad and weejun-y to me).

Only problem is they can't be re-soled.


----------



## cycliste1

I think that they are terrific. I really love my Cape Cods as well. And I agree that they look more like a pair of Weejuns. The Guccis have a higher heel which looks slightly awkward, IMO with chinos or shorts.

I didn't know that the Cape Cods could not be resoled. Are you sure of that? I will have to ask my shoemaker the next time I bring mine in for a shine for a firm answer. He can resole anything.



Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I bought a secondhand pair of Cape Cods on ebay (entered a low bid and was surprised when no one ever outbid me), and really love them.
> One of the most comfortable shoes I've worn, and to be honest I prefer them to the Gucci bits (they look more trad and weejun-y to me).
> 
> Only problem is they can't be re-soled.


----------



## TMMKC

^You CAN re-sole Cape Cods. I asked the cobbler I take our shoes to and he confirmed this (he's also the only Alden retailer in Kansas City). He says it's not necessarily easy to do, but it can be done (same goes for Guccis). I trust the guy. They do very good work at very reasonable prices.


----------



## cycliste1

TMMKC said:


> ^You CAN re-sole Cape Cods. I asked the cobbler I take our shoes to and he confirmed this (he's also the only Alden retailer in Kansas City). He says it's not necessarily easy to do, but it can be done (same goes for Guccis). I trust the guy. They do very good work at very reasonable prices.


Good deal! Thanks for the information. Mine are practically brand new but I hated to think they could not be resoled.


----------



## The Louche

TMMKC said:


> ^You CAN re-sole Cape Cods. I asked the cobbler I take our shoes to and he confirmed this (he's also the only Alden retailer in Kansas City). He says it's not necessarily easy to do, but it can be done (same goes for Guccis). I trust the guy. They do very good work at very reasonable prices.





cycliste1 said:


> Good deal! Thanks for the information. Mine are practically brand new but I hated to think they could not be resoled.


I hate to beat a dead horse, but this entire issue can be avoided simply by getting toppies. Even if you aren't normally a fan, this is one of those cases where toppies make particular sense since they allow for never needing to replace the original sole. Plus, with a more casual shoe I don't think any arguments about the negative appearance of toppies are valid either...


----------



## The Louche

cycliste1 said:


> I remember the loafers from the movie as well. They are my least favorite of the bits. They are kind of clunky looking. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't refuse a pair as a gift. I have brown suede classic Guccis and a pair of driving mocs. I also have the Alden Cape Cods in brown.
> 
> I have always wanted the brown classic bit loafer but am concerned that they are ostentatious. Like a flashy Rolex on my feet. Someday I will bite the bullet and get them. Maybe this spring.


I have to agree that the lug sole seems to run counter to the delicate nature of the bit loafer IMO. Certainly a decent shoe, but I think it calls for a touch more refinement in order to perfect. Add this argument to list of reasons that toppies are a good idea - you can have your tread and have your refined appearance at the same time.


----------



## Doctor Damage

The Louche said:


> cycliste1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I remember the loafers from the movie as well. They are my least favorite of the bits. They are kind of clunky looking. On the other hand, I certainly wouldn't refuse a pair as a gift.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to agree that the lug sole seems to run counter to the delicate nature of the bit loafer IMO. Certainly a decent shoe, but I think it calls for a touch more refinement in order to perfect. Add this argument to list of reasons that toppies are a good idea - you can have your tread and have your refined appearance at the same time.
Click to expand...

I suspect the actor was wearing size 8 shoes, so the lug soles looked huge. Gucci doesn't seem to vary the size of the horsebits much, nor the thickness of the soles, as sizes increase. So on size 8 the horsebits look huge and the soles look thick, but on size 13 not so much. However, I agree the lug soles are a bit thicker than they need to be. Back in the 1980s or early 90s the lug soles were much thinner and less chunky.



cycliste1 said:


> have always wanted the brown classic bit loafer but am concerned that they are ostentatious. Like a flashy Rolex on my feet. Someday I will bite the bullet and get them. Maybe this spring.


I too want that model. The brown is just brown enough (dark). I think you will find the horsebits on the classic models are positioned rather high on the vamp such that with long pants they tend be obscured much of the time. With highwater pants, however, they will be visible. I know in photos these shoes look garish, but somehow in real life they seem fine.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Dexter bit loafers, unknown date. I think it's pretty clear these are identical to the Alden Cape Cods.

https://img11.imageshack.us/my.php?image=03041138.jpg


----------



## linklaw

Those shoes are on ebay right now


----------



## Bob_Brooks

*Re*

I just picked up a pair of Ferragamo "Master" bit Loafers. Anyone know the Difference between the Master and the Diego?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Some discussion about Gucci sizing here which is worth a look.


----------



## Patrick06790

linklaw said:


> Those shoes are on ebay right now


I bought 'em. Another taboo, shot to hell.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Patrick06790 said:


> I bought 'em. Another taboo, shot to hell.


Good choice. I think you'll like the Cape Cod shoes (assuming they fit). The quality is excellent. Those will be a notch or two above similar AE USA-made shoes. The only problem is once you start wearing bit loafers, you'll want a hundred pairs. It's a slippery slope, but it's a very comfortable ride down.


----------



## Patrick06790

Doctor Damage said:


> Good choice. I think you'll like the Cape Cod shoes (assuming they fit). The quality is excellent. Those will be a notch or two above similar AE USA-made shoes. The only problem is once you start wearing bit loafers, you'll want a hundred pairs. It's a slippery slope, but it's a very comfortable ride down.


I took a look at the shoes the other night. Somehow I have accumulated a dozen pairs of penny loafers. Didn't pay much for any of them, but still.

The only way to justify this is to wear almost no other shoe style all summer.

I need professional help.


----------



## Duck

Doctor Damage said:


> Good choice. I think you'll like the Cape Cod shoes (assuming they fit). The quality is excellent. Those will be a notch or two above similar AE USA-made shoes. The only problem is once you start wearing bit loafers, you'll want a hundred pairs. It's a slippery slope, but it's a very comfortable ride down.


Truer words have not been spoken. I started off with a pair of light brown bits four years ago and I now own five pairs. From the standard brown guccis to the black bit, cape cods and chocolate suede. They are addictive.


----------



## TMMKC

Duck said:


> Truer words have not been spoken. I started off with a pair of light brown bits four years ago and I now own five pairs. From the standard brown guccis to the black bit, cape cods and chocolate suede. They are addictive.


:aportnoy:I'm up to four pairs of bits now, with my eye on a fifth pair (the lug-sole Gucci or Alden, or black suede Cape Cods).

The brown suede Cape Cods have become one of my favorite pairs of shoes.


----------



## Ron_A

Does anyone have any experience with the Cole Haan Bennett? It looks very similar to the AE Verona (and, like the Verona, is made in Italy) but has a gold-toned bit and comes in a lighter brown shade called "luggage." (It also sells for around $170 at The Shoe Mart -- about $100 cheaper than the Verona.) Thanks.


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Ron_A said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the Cole Haan Bennett? It looks very similar to the AE Verona (and, like the Verona, is made in Italy) but has a gold-toned bit and comes in a lighter brown shade called "luggage." (It also sells for around $170 at The Shoe Mart -- about $100 cheaper than the Verona.) Thanks.


The Bennett used to be the good quality Cole Haan bit loafer, as opposed to the cheaper Ascot. The Bennett used to sell for about $265 full price, with sales to be had. It is interesting how some things like bit loafers are getting cheaper in this economy.

I have a pair of barely tried on black Bennetts in 10.5 if anyone is interested. I was hoping to get about $80, if I could ever get my camera to work.


----------



## Ron_A

Friends, I just pulled the trigger on these ($99 using the BIN feature on ebay). They are the Cole Haan "Ascot", but they look slightly different than the Ascot II sold at JAB (or maybe not?). Any chance they are new old stock of a discontinued Cole Haan model?


----------



## ds23pallas

Ron_A said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the Cole Haan Bennett? It looks very similar to the AE Verona (and, like the Verona, is made in Italy) but has a gold-toned bit and comes in a lighter brown shade called "luggage." (It also sells for around $170 at The Shoe Mart -- about $100 cheaper than the Verona.) Thanks.


Ron,

I purchased a pair of the Bennetts about a year ago in San Francisco to replace an aging pair of Guccis. The appearance is very similar to that of the Alden Cape Cod bit loafer. I find the Bennetts to be comfortable, and are ageing well, however they don't get a lot of use as they are black and I wear mostly browns.

The same trip to San Francisco I looked at the Ascot II at JAB. It was a very disappointing piece. I believe it had a synthetic sole, and a cheap overall appearance. I can't comment on the Ascot I, however.

I think you would be pleased with the Bennett.


----------



## Ron_A

^ Thanks for the feedback. I like the looks of the Bennett, but I wanted to pick up a cheaper pair of bit loafers in darker brown. I have the AE Verona, but don't wear it much as it is dressier and I don't care for the silver bit.


----------



## atchudy

I am looking at the Alden Cape Cods, and cannot decide between the two browns. Does anyone have any real life pictures of them side by side?

What is more Versatile?


----------



## Tucker

Alden 5725F. Flex-welt horse bit in cognac.

I like.

https://www.natoriya.jp/ALDEN/5725F.html


----------



## TMMKC

atchudy said:


> I am looking at the Alden Cape Cods, and cannot decide between the two browns. Does anyone have any real life pictures of them side by side?
> 
> What is more Versatile?


I don't have a side-by-side pic handy, but I own and prefer the darker brown. Go back several pages in this thread...there was a discussion about the "browness" of that particular shoe.


----------



## eagle2250

Tucker said:


> Alden 5725F. Flex-welt horse bit in cognac.
> 
> I like.
> 
> https://www.natoriya.jp/ALDEN/5725F.html


Oh no, say it isn't so! I'm in love again....a perfect way to round out my assembly of cognac loafers (pennies, Tassels and now Horse-bits!). Are they available in the States?


----------



## Tucker

eagle2250 said:


> Oh no, say it isn't so! I'm in love again....a perfect way to round out my assembly of cognac loafers (pennies, Tassels and now Horse-bits!). Are they available in the States?


Yes. Try The Shoe Mart.


----------



## Ron_A

Friends:

I received the Cole Haan bit loafers that I purchased on ebay (new in the box), and they indeed are the Ascot II. That said, for $99.99 (including shipping -- I received them via UPS overnight), I think they're pretty nice shoes and were a good value. I frankly think that they are very similar to the AE Verona -- selling for $275 -- although the leather is not quite as supple, they aren't noticably inferior to the naked eye (not yet anyway). I'll be interested to see how they hold up, but if someone is looking to try bit loafers and doesn't want to spend upwards of $200, then I'd take a look at these. The seller from whom I purchased them had a lot more of them, in various sizes, on ebay.


----------



## TMMKC

Ron_A said:


> Friends:
> 
> I received the Cole Haan bit loafers that I purchased on ebay (new in the box), and they indeed are the Ascot II. That said, for $99.99 (including shipping -- I received them via UPS overnight), I think they're pretty nice shoes and were a good value. I frankly think that they are very similar to the AE Verona -- selling for $275 -- although the leather is not quite as supple, they aren't noticably inferior to the naked eye (not yet anyway). I'll be interested to see how they hold up, but if someone is looking to try bit loafers and doesn't want to spend upwards of $200, then I'd take a look at these. The seller from whom I purchased them had a lot more of them, in various sizes, on ebay.


I second that. I bought a pair of black Ascot II loafers from JAB last year, primarily to check them out (figuring I could always return them...which I expected to to do). I was pleasantly surprised by the fit and relative quality. Granted, they're not on par with AE, Alden or Gucci models, but the Ascot II is a decent, moderately-priced shoe (as Ron pointed out).


----------



## eagle2250

eagle2250 said:


> Oh no, say it isn't so! I'm in love again....a perfect way to round out my assembly of cognac loafers (pennies, Tassels and now Horse-bits!). Are they available in the States?





Tucker said:


> Yes. Try The Shoe Mart.


Tucker: While I thank you for your feedback, I must also say...my wife is cursing you! Fancy that.  Thanks again, I'm calling Shoemart.


----------



## CrescentCityConnection

eagle2250 said:


> Tucker: While I thank you for your feedback, I must also say...my wife is cursing you! Fancy that.  Thanks again, I'm calling Shoemart.


Me too!! Those are fantastic looking!


----------



## gccg

The most popular Bit Loafer of AAAC - Alden :icon_smile:


----------



## Doctor Damage

Those Alden's are great! Thanks for posting them. More proof that the Cape Cod dark brown is the colour of choice.

I was in the Gucci store in Toronto today and I can confirm there is indeed a "classic" model available by special order. It has a gold horsebit, rounded toe, thin sole, and 1" heel. I couldn't read the model number clearly (five digits) but the saleslady said they could order them with no probs. One of our members posted this info before, but I have to admit I was skeptical until I saw them for myself, so my apologies. The Toronto store doesn't stock them, of course, since the pair on display were an order for a customer who never picked them up, so I imagine anyone interested would have to contact the New York store. Nice looking shoes, actually. In your mind's eye think of them as the current model but with rounded toe and thinner sole and you've got it.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Do you think they let Connie wear his Gucci loafers in the clink? Probably not...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Yul Brynner in Gucci loafers, 1957-58 and 1974.

https://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4215822805brynner1957.jpg
https://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4215825340brynner1958.jpg
https://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4216174201brynner1974.jpg


----------



## ds23pallas

Doctor Damage said:


> Do you think they let Connie wear his Gucci loafers in the clink? Probably not...


No, but they did allow him Topsiders.


----------



## Doctor Damage

ds23pallas said:


> No, but they did allow him Topsiders.


It really is "Club Fed", then?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Ron_A said:


> I actually just received my first pair of bit loafers a few days ago. They are AE Verona in dark brown calf. I like them, but for some reason my wife HATES them...Hopefully she'll get used to them.


Strange, because I've found that women are fascinated by bit loafers and tassel loafers.

Anyway, how do the Verona loafers fit versus other AE models?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

I received a similar response as well, and among my small collection of loafers (3 pennys and 1 bit) my ex-girlfriend said she thought the Cape Cods were, by far, the best looking and her favorite pair.


----------



## Duck

I own numerous pairs of bits and my wife is neutral. She has made it abundantly clear that she does not like tassels. She prefers laces, I do not.

Wear what makes you happy.


----------



## TMMKC

Duck said:


> Wear what makes you happy.


Sartorially speaking, truer words were never spoken. I've often said that life's too short to go through it wearing uninteresting socks (or socks at all!) and drinking cheap liquor. I guess this applies to bit loafers as well.

My wife likes my bit loafers, and I regularly get positive comments from others. Those who deride my shoe choices must keep their thoughts to themselves.


----------



## Ron_A

Doctor Damage said:


> Strange, because I've found that women are fascinated by bit loafers and tassel loafers.
> 
> Anyway, how do the Verona loafers fit versus other AE models?


My wife has become more neutral with regard to bits. In general, though, she considers them shoes for older men, and, since you don't see them around here very often, they are somewhat unique (which isn't always a good thing). I like them, but wear them in moderation. Truth by told, I have a hard time matching them with outfits (they seem too dressy, IMO, for khakis and a button down, yet I can't wear them with suits).

The Veronas are nice -- much nicer than the Cole Haan Ascot II, which I also own. The fit is fairly roomy, but I have them in EEE width....They have a higher vamp than the Ascot II and penny loafers (Alden LHS, etc.).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Ron_A said:


> My wife has become more neutral with regard to bits. In general, though, she considers them shoes for older men, and, since you don't see them around here very often, they are somewhat unique (which isn't always a good thing). I like them, but wear them in moderation. Truth by told, I have a hard time matching them with outfits (they seem too dressy, IMO, for khakis and a button down, yet I can't wear them with suits).


Bit loafers are certainly strange things and I can't quite force myself to follow the advice I was given by a Harry Rosen salesman that they are not to be worn with suits. Unless they are in suede with lug soles I think they are fairly dressy, actually, and don't quite fit with chinos (as you say).

Some old guy came by the office yesterday to pick up some documents and he had on some vintage bit loafers, Italian certainly to judge by the shape and soles.

Today, at a meeting, one of the clients (rich man) pulled off his Gucci loafers under the table and carelessly pushed them aside, which is the only way I noticed them. I thought that was a bit rude (the shoe removal, not the shoes). They were a 90s design, unless I'm mistaken. For trivia fans, the other guy at the meeting owns a jet; I'm never quite sure what to make of people who can afford jets, other than the obvious fact that they can afford jets and I can't.



Ron_A said:


> The Veronas are nice -- much nicer than the Cole Haan Ascot II, which I also own. The fit is fairly roomy, but I have them in EEE width....They have a higher vamp than the Ascot II and penny loafers (Alden LHS, etc.).


Do the fit the same size as your other AE shoes?


----------



## Ron_A

Doctor Damage said:


> Do the fit the same size as your other AE shoes?


I've decided that I'm going to try to wear my AE Veronas with a suit some time (probably on a Friday or in a more casual setting).

Generally speaking, the AE Verona fit is similar to my other AE shoes. I have noticed a big difference in the E vs. EEE width in AE shoes. But, the Verona are pretty true to size, in my experience.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Ron_A said:


> I've decided that I'm going to try to wear my AE Veronas with a suit some time (probably on a Friday or in a more casual setting).
> 
> Generally speaking, the AE Verona fit is similar to my other AE shoes. I have noticed a big difference in the E vs. EEE width in AE shoes. But, the Verona are pretty true to size, in my experience.


Good info. I stopped into a store in Toronto (just today) that had a couple pairs of Verona left, all of them too small of course. The guy sort of confirmed what you said about them being normal sizes. I was really impressed by the overall quality. I'd rate these better than the classic Gucci models. In fact, I'd rate these better than the standard USA-made AE models.


----------



## Mazama

*A long way from Gucci*

This site has an Alden bit loafer with a lug sole:
https://www.menshoenet-alden-shoes.com/306137_Alden_Bit_Mini_Lug_Slipon.html


----------



## Doctor Damage

Gucci vintage ribbon loafers in red calfskin. Look closely and you can see how friggin' awesome these shoes were made in the past. Today's quality is simply not in the same league. I wish I had a time machine.

https://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bpt392kkgrhgohdiejlllvv.jpg
https://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bpt4ddgbwkkgrhgohc8ejllp.jpg
https://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bpt4jegbgkkgrhgohcmejll.jpg
https://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bpt4g1wb2kkgrhgohdmejll.jpg


----------



## Mazama

*And it's not coming back*

"Today's (Italian) quality is simply not in the same league." (as in years gone by).

And it's not coming back. Ethnic Italian birthrate imploded long ago and few young apprentices replaced their parents. Within Italy African, Middle Eastern and Balkan immigrants now provide a lot of that labor but without the skills the Italians acquired over many generations. Many of the high end Italian clothing companies sub out much of the work to China, India, et al and then let Albanians working in Italy put them together and slap on the "Made in Italy" label.

Not all Italian manufacturers are doing this now, but an Italian woman who owned a very high end Italian import boutique for many years assured me it was already happening on a large scale and will accelerate.


----------



## jsk85

*Cole Haan Bennett*

I just purchased a pair of Cole Haan Bennett loafers from the Shoe Mart. I will try to post some pictures when I receive them. They look good, and apparently were once $285. The Shoe Mart has marked them down significantly.

-JSK


----------



## Doctor Damage

Mazama said:


> "Today's (Italian) quality is simply not in the same league." (as in years gone by).
> 
> And it's not coming back. Ethnic Italian birthrate imploded long ago and few young apprentices replaced their parents. Within Italy African, Middle Eastern and Balkan immigrants now provide a lot of that labor but without the skills the Italians acquired over many generations. Many of the high end Italian clothing companies sub out much of the work to China, India, et al and then let Albanians working in Italy put them together and slap on the "Made in Italy" label.
> 
> Not all Italian manufacturers are doing this now, but an Italian woman who owned a very high end Italian import boutique for many years assured me it was already happening on a large scale and will accelerate.


Good information (if unwelcome). I wish Italian companies would just label stuff appropriately. I have a pair of GEOX loafers which were made in Slovakia, not Italy. I'm actually glad they didn't pretend they were made in Italy.



jsk85 said:


> I just purchased a pair of Cole Haan Bennett loafers from the Shoe Mart. I will try to post some pictures when I receive them. They look good, and apparently were once $285. The Shoe Mart has marked them down significantly.


They should be good for the price. I think Duck has a few pairs of those and he likes them. If you look back over this thread you'll see that C-H used to offer them in two shades of suede, four shades of calfskin, and leather or rubber lug soles.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I have a pair of the AE Verona loafers on order. Should be here by next Friday. If they fit well (fingers crossed!) then I will buy two more pairs and stash them in the closet.


----------



## Patrick06790

Did we ever do an Ode to the penny loafer?


----------



## Reds & Tops

That sounds like a good thread to me


----------



## Doctor Damage

Patrick06790 said:


> Did we ever do an Ode to the penny loafer?


There is a thread devoted to the LHS and other goodyear welted penny loafers, but nothing more general in scope. In fact I'd like that thread to be re-named "ode" by the moderators, if we have any left, if only so that I can find it easier. I think the category of "penny loafer" is perhaps too vague (or open to interpretation) to be fully useful as a thread handle...but don't let that stop anyone!


----------



## TMMKC

Doctor Damage said:


> I have a pair of the AE Verona loafers on order. Should be here by next Friday. If they fit well (fingers crossed!) then I will buy two more pairs and stash them in the closet.


AE doesn't make that model in suede, do they? I'm now up to three Cape Cod bits (black, brown, and brown suede). I'd like to change it up and get a non-Alden black suede pair. Gucci makes them, but for something I wouldn't wear as much as the brown model, I can't justify the price.


----------



## gman-17

Doctor Damage said:


> Gucci vintage ribbon loafers in red calfskin. Look closely and you can see how friggin' awesome these shoes were made in the past. Today's quality is simply not in the same league. I wish I had a time machine.
> https://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bpt4ddgbwkkgrhgohc8ejllp.jpg
> https://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bpt4jegbgkkgrhgohcmejll.jpg
> https://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bpt4g1wb2kkgrhgohdmejll.jpg


Doc those really are very nice where did you find them?


----------



## gman-17

TMMKC said:


> AE doesn't make that model in suede, do they? I'm now up to three Cape Cod bits (black, brown, and brown suede). I'd like to change it up and get a non-Alden black suede pair. Gucci makes them, but for something I wouldn't wear as much as the brown model, I can't justify the price.


Does anyone make a light brown suede bit loafer?


----------



## Doctor Damage

TMMKC said:


> AE doesn't make that model in suede, do they? I'm now up to three Cape Cod bits (black, brown, and brown suede). I'd like to change it up and get a non-Alden black suede pair. Gucci makes them, but for something I wouldn't wear as much as the brown model, I can't justify the price.


So far the Verona is only available in black and brown calfskin (apparently). The brown is a nice medium brown, lighter than the so-dark-it's-almost-black brown that Gucci uses. Since they're made in Italy I doubt AE can do special make-ups in the leather of your choice. But since you mention it, I'd like to see them in a suede and lug soles (thin lug soles, like the older Cole Haan bit loafers).

The Gucci in black suede with lug soles is a good looking shoe, however be aware (as I found out to my dismay, expensively) the marked sizing has changed recently: I wear a 10.5 in most shoes but need a 9.5 in those...



dman-17 said:


> Doc those really are very nice where did you find them?


Those red ones are on eBay right now. I'm still thinking I would like to pick up a vintage pair for historical purposes, whether they fit me or not.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Doctor Damage said:


> I have a pair of the AE Verona loafers on order. Should be here by next Friday. If they fit well (fingers crossed!) then I will buy two more pairs and stash them in the closet.


I just found out that the Verona only comes in D and EEE widths, not the E that I probably need. I totally missed that in the catalogue. AE told my local retailer that an 11D might work instead of the 10.5E I wanted, but based on experience I'm not sure about that. So back to Gucci...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Current version of the Cole-Haan Bennett loafers.


----------



## release the hounds

Why are we talking about Gucci? I thought this was a TRAD forum. Come on guys, restrain yourselves. I find all these shoes disgusting. Blecch! Dime a dozen.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Seriously vintage pair of Gucci loafers (on eBay right now).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Link to a quote from G. Bruce Boyer on Gucci loafers.


----------



## Doctor Damage

***** PRAISE THE LORD!!! *****

I just spoke to some dude working at the Gucci store on Fifth Avenue to ask about those quasi-vintage horsebit loafers I saw in the Toronto store recently. After a bit of confusion, he was able to identify what I saw and I am pleased to announce that this boring, unimaginative, unfashionable and above all CLASSIC model is available and can be ordered for the same price as the current models (info below).

model number:
*015936*

sizing:
order up 1/2 size from the 015938 model

photos:


----------



## Mazama

*Coming around*

I never had the slightest interest in bit loafers until "release the hounds" brought them to my attention. By and large I've never cared for metal decorations on shoes, but now I'm starting to rethink the matter.

What's it called when ranting against something causes people to pay more attention to it and eventually like it? The Streisand affect?

Could "release the hounds" actually be a so-called viral marketing agent for Gucci who's trying to manipulate people into buying something they never considered before?


----------



## TMMKC

Doc, stop posting shoe porn!:icon_smile_big: 
Beautiful shoes...and without the annoying high heels of the newer model.


----------



## Doctor Damage

TMMKC said:


> Beautiful shoes...and without the annoying high heels of the newer model.


These actually have high heels, but overall they have more traditional proportions compared to the newer models. The photos below illustrate the details of this model very well. Whoever edited these photos managed to do a poor cutout job around the soles, but the essentials are clear I think, based on the pair I saw in Toronto.

The toes viewed from above are shaped like this pair (posted by one of our members):


----------



## Doctor Damage

Funny quote about bit loafers from some blog called Easy & Elegant Life:



> The whole was worn with horse bit loafers, which I come to appreciate more as I age. The gold bit echoes the gold buttons of the blazer. They are "very Richmond" though. Our former parish priest used to wear them, without socks of course, under his cassock. It never failed to amuse me at Communion.


Accompanying photo (from Flusser's latest book):

https://img140.imageshack.us/i/dfairbanksjrflusserg.jpg/


----------



## Duck

Doctor Damage said:


> Funny quote about bit loafers from some blog called Easy & Elegant Life:
> 
> Accompanying photo (from Flusser's latest book):
> 
> https://img140.imageshack.us/i/dfairbanksjrflusserg.jpg/


The whole was worn with horse bit loafers, which I come to appreciate more as I age. The gold bit echoes the gold buttons of the blazer. They are "very Richmond" though. Our former parish priest used to wear them, without socks of course, under his cassock. It never failed to amuse me at Communion.

So true about Richmond. You see them everywhere.


----------



## Doctor Damage

More photos of the 015936 model.

https://img518.imageshack.us/i/01593610.jpg/https://img370.imageshack.us/i/01593611.jpg/


----------



## Doctor Damage

Let's put the issue about Gucci shoe construction to rest, once and for all...

*Are the soles stitched on or glued?*

The soles are stitched on. Outside, the stitching is hidden in a groove with a flap of leather which is glued down over top, hiding the stitching from view. When the soles get worn down the stitching becomes visible, like in the photo below. Inside, you can see a corresponding row of stitching around the circumference of the footbed. This is standard moccasin construction.

Some of their fashion shoes might be glued - I don't know - but the soles of their "classic" models are stitched on (and are pretty solid for most people's use).


----------



## The Louche

^^

Agreed. Classic Gucci bit loafers are well made shoes; much or robust and well made thanthey appear upon cursory inspection. I have a pair that are 5 years old; I have beaten the living hell out of them and they are in good shape. The only wear area of concern is the leather at my achillies, which has worn small holes in itself. Easily corrected, however, I'm sure.


----------



## jamgood

Apologies for not back-tracking but have Bass bit loafers appeared on here? Somewhere in the archives I've a pair purchased for beaters that have never been worn. May be genuine Honduran hand-sewns!


----------



## gman-17

I picked these up today --well they were delivered to me today. I purcahsed them from the AE shoe bank in Maine. I think they are really beautiful--they are seconds by the way. I have a pretty good eye and I can't tell. I feel bad for our Canadian friends, who don't have access to the shoe bank, I would be happy to ship them to you.

Yes those are the show trees. :icon_smile_big:

G


----------



## linklaw

What is the model of those Allen Edmonds?


----------



## gman-17

linklaw said:


> What is the model of those Allen Edmonds?


They are Verona loafers.


----------



## Doctor Damage

The Verona is a really nice shoe. They fit me perfectly, except for one thing: the heels are completely stacked leather which means they are going to need to wear down some before they don't bother my feet.


----------



## gman-17

Doctor Damage said:


> The Verona is a really nice shoe. They fit me perfectly, except for one thing: the heels are completely stacked leather which means they are going to need to wear down some before they don't bother my feet.


Doc,

I have them on today and they are a very nice fit for me. I am wearing them on with a pair of grey Zanella trousers and some yellow Marcoliani socks and they look super.

I recomend them to everyone.


----------



## smujd

gman-17 said:


> I recomend them to everyone.


As do I. The Verona is a great loafer.


----------



## Doctor Damage

When I line up the Verona next to my Gucci ribbon loafers the proportions are exactly the same, which surprised me since at a glance they look much different!


----------



## ds23pallas

jamgood said:


> Apologies for not back-tracking but have Bass bit loafers appeared on here? Somewhere in the archives I've a pair purchased for beaters that have never been worn. May be genuine Honduran hand-sewns!


Weejun bit loafers:


----------



## gman-17

Doctor Damage said:


> When I line up the Verona next to my Gucci ribbon loafers the proportions are exactly the same, which surprised me since at a glance they look much different!


The Veronas are made in Italy at a factory which is not owned or controlled by AE--could it be the same factory as the one making Guccis. Would be interesting to know the answer. My guess is that both Gucci and Ferragamo manufacture very little today and subcontract.


----------



## nringo

smujd said:


> As do I. The Verona is a great loafer.


Agreed. Picked up a pair at the AE store during the last sale.


----------



## Got Shell?

I really like the Verona and bruzzano by ae. Does anyone know the difference? Th bruzzano is older, so I assume it was just replaced by the Verona. They appear identical. I need a pair of bit loafers! I'd prefer silver bits though.


----------



## gman-17

Got Shell? said:


> I really like the Verona and bruzzano by ae. Does anyone know the difference? Th bruzzano is older, so I assume it was just replaced by the Verona. They appear identical. I need a pair of bit loafers! I'd prefer silver bits though.


Ok the Veronas I purchased have silver bits, but they are brown I don't know how the black ones come. It looks like the difference between the Verona and Bruzzano is the toe. The toe on the Bruzzanos appear more rounded--but that is a guess. I would call the shoe bank for definitive answers.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

I'm almost positive I've seen both brown and black with silver bits. Best check on that with the authorities, though.


----------



## nringo

Pleasant McIvor said:


> I'm almost positive I've seen both brown and black with silver bits. Best check on that with the authorities, though.


I'm pretty sure black has silver bits.


----------



## Got Shell?

I ish Alden would make some welted bit loafers in shell. That would be a no-brainer. I'm just hesitant to buy shoes than can't be resoled by the factory.


----------



## jdsox

I have a pair of black Veronas and indeed they have silver bits.

I absolutely adore the shoes, but I must say they have not held up very well thus far. The rubber rear edge of the heel wore down to the leather after only about six weeks (wearing twice a week or so) -- that's a common wear pattern for me, but I've never had it happen so quickly. Also, now, after about four months of similar usage, they already look like they just about need to be resoled. By contrast, my AE Fifth Avenues (purchased at the same time and worn about the same amount) have held up much better.


----------



## Doctor Damage

jdsox said:


> I absolutely adore the shoes, but I must say they have not held up very well thus far. The rubber rear edge of the heel wore down to the leather after only about six weeks (wearing twice a week or so) -- that's a common wear pattern for me, but I've never had it happen so quickly. Also, now, after about four months of similar usage, they already look like they just about need to be resoled. By contrast, my AE Fifth Avenues (purchased at the same time and worn about the same amount) have held up much better.


Good to know. I'll get the topy put on as soon as possible. So far I've only worn them in the office but they seem robust enough for what they are (i.e. lightweight Italian loafers).


----------



## Doctor Damage

AE has expanded their horsebit loafer lineup with the Lucca, basically the Verona with a rubber sole. I'm not a fan of the AE lug sole, but I like the suede.

It comes in the following styles:
49601 black suede
49605 brown suede
49609 black calfskin


----------



## Doctor Damage

AE Lucca (better photo of all three styles):


----------



## gccg

Barker Black Wolfe


----------



## aikon

Barneys and Saks have dark brown suede gucci loafers with the green/red/green webbing under the horsebit. They are a beautiful shoe, and are a special limited run.


----------



## Doctor Damage

aikon said:


> Barneys and Saks have dark brown suede gucci loafers with the green/red/green webbing under the horsebit. They are a beautiful shoe, and are a special limited run.


Those sound really nice. I can't find them on their website, so they must be a store only exclusive. They have a tan suede right now, but those don't look too good.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I would like to note that I've been wearing my AE Verona bit loafers quite a bit and I'm loving them. Better made than Gucci, and better leathers too, in my opinion.

Several weeks ago I visited my local shoe repair guy and he had a pair of old Gucci loafers that he'd just repaired for some customer "in his 70s". They had the old woven green label inside on the sock liner. The leather was ridiculously soft but tough - incredible quality - it's true the new ones are not in the same league. However, my AE Verona loafers come pretty close.

Footjoy bit loafers, size 9.

https://img193.imageshack.us/i/footjoysize9d.jpg/


----------



## aikon

Doctor Damage said:


> Those sound really nice. I can't find them on their website, so they must be a store only exclusive. They have a tan suede right now, but those don't look too good.


You are correct, they are a store only exclusive. They are the same cut as the tan suede (and the black leather w/ green/red/green that they've had for many seasons), but with a dark chocolate suede. If interested, be sure to size down a half size from any other gucci loafer (even the black leather w/ green/red/green, despite being the same model), because these run very big.


----------



## TMMKC

Doctor Damage said:


> AE Lucca (better photo of all three styles):


I am assuming I would need to order UP a half size on the Lucca as well? AE's bit loafers run small if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## gman-17

TMMKC said:


> I am assuming I would need to order UP a half size on the Lucca as well? AE's bit loafers run small if I'm not mistaken.


I have both the Alden bits and the AE bits. My AE Luccas are 1/2 size larger than Alden.


----------



## smujd

TMMKC said:


> I am assuming I would need to order UP a half size on the Lucca as well? AE's bit loafers run small if I'm not mistaken.


I sized up one half size with my AE bits. Perfect fit.


----------



## gman-17

*From the set of Wall Street II*

I really hope this movie is good.


----------



## Doctor Damage

gman-17 said:


> I really hope this movie is good.


It probably won't be (the movie, I mean), since Oliver Stone is not as clever as he, his fans, and Hollywood think he is.

More photos of Shia LaBeouf here. I have those exact Gucci loafers. Very comfortable, but my AE Verona loafers are better.


----------



## gman-17

Doctor Damage said:


> It probably won't be (the movie, I mean), since Oliver Stone is not as clever as he, his fans, and Hollywood think he is.
> 
> More photos of Shia LaBeouf here. I have those exact Gucci loafers. Very comfortable, but my AE Verona loafers are better.


Doc,

Stone did the first movie and it was quite good--despite all his attempts at ruining capitalism. Let's hope lightning strikes twice. Good to hear on the AEs as I don't have any Gcucis.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I checked out the AE Lucca (rubber lug sole) loafers today at a local trunk show. Hard rubber, but they seem like they would last a long time. If anyone who has these can comment on wear, please post.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Doctor Damage said:


> I checked out the AE Lucca (rubber lug sole) loafers today at a local trunk show. Hard rubber, but they seem like they would last a long time. If anyone who has these can comment on wear, please post.


I think I'm going to order a pair of those AE Lucca loafers tomorrow. I think I shall try the brown suede, although black does have a certain presence.

Here is a man wearing Gucci loafers (looks sorta like AlanC!).

https://img10.imageshack.us/i/gucciontheman5.jpg/


----------



## Doctor Damage

These Gucci loafers are currently on eBay: top to bottom: 015936, 015938 (both currently available), and vintage ribbon loafers (the current version is different).

https://img10.imageshack.us/i/015936.jpg/
https://img21.imageshack.us/i/015938.jpg/
https://img21.imageshack.us/i/ribbonm.jpg/


----------



## CM Wolff

Thanks to this thread (especially the dedication of Doctor Damage), I just bought my first pair of bit loafers, the AE Verona in brown. Absolutely love them, fit like a glove, they instantly move to the top of my list as far as pure comfort in a loafer. 

Have had an (irrational) aversion to bit loafers forever, but this thread caused me to undergo a total change of heart. Those Luccas will be next.


----------



## Doctor Damage

CM Wolff said:


> Thanks to this thread, I just bought my first pair of bit loafers, the AE Verona in brown. Absolutely love them, fit like a glove, they instantly move to the top of my list as far as pure comfort in a loafer.
> 
> Have had an (irrational) aversion to bit loafers forever, but this thread caused me to undergo a total change of heart. Those Luccas will be next.


Welcome to the dark side of the Force...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Illustrated herein is the beauty of beaten-up, worn-down, black suede bit loafers:

https://img5.imageshack.us/i/600x4502009111300001.jpg/


----------



## Got Shell?

The luccas look nice, but is it just me or do the black calfskin ones have a black bit? It looks like it has a black shiny surface, that definitely does not do it for me.


----------



## gman-17

On ebay a wish of mine for a very long time.


----------



## Catch-22

This should include pictures of a great looking pair of a.testoni bit loafers in wine but I haven't a degree in posting pictures on AA.:crazy:

They are both beautiful and comfortable.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Got Shell? said:


> The luccas look nice, but is it just me or do the black calfskin ones have a black bit? It looks like it has a black shiny surface, that definitely does not do it for me.


I've seen the black suede AE Lucca in person and rest assured they have a silver bit and it really shines out against the black suede. What you are seeing in photos is the usual Allen Edmonds "Curse of the Bad Photos" which makes their shoes look like junk when the opposite is true. Also worth noting is the lug sole on the production model is quite nice - the soles in the photos I posted earlier were pre-production and not used.

Black suede is fairly "urban" in taste, however, so if you wear lots and autumn earth tones I suggest getting the brown instead. I think I posted some photos of George Hamilton wearing black suede bit loafers with a suit in NYC - that's how it's done and it looks good. But if you wear chinos and a blue blazer most of the time, then black suede is probably not for you. Black calf, on the other hand, is more flexible in my opinion.


----------



## AlanC

Picture from the Lexington Herald-Leader of Coach John Calipari during UK's win over UConn at Madison Square Garden last night (Go Big Blue!):


----------



## Doctor Damage

AlanC said:


> Picture from the Lexington Herald-Leader of Coach John Calipari during UK's win over UConn at Madison Square Garden last night (Go Big Blue!)


Ferragamo has certainly become the go-to loafers for our economic and political betters!


----------



## Doctor Damage

Allen Edmonds bit loafer complete lineup:

https://img689.imageshack.us/i/aeveronaandlucca.jpg/


----------



## Doctor Damage

Allen Edmonds Bruzzano lineup from 1990:


----------



## jdsox

The soles on my (beloved) Veronas do not have much life in them -- when I push on them I can feel the weaknesses where a hole will soon form.

This may be a silly question, but can the shoes be resoled in any meaningful way? I know that AE will not recraft them, but I presume that there is nonetheless a way to extend the life of the shoes? Assuming that's right, anything in particular I should have the cobbler do or not do?

Thanks.


----------



## Ron_A

jdsox said:


> The soles on my (beloved) Veronas do not have much life in them -- when I push on them I can feel the weaknesses where a hole will soon form.
> 
> This may be a silly question, but can the shoes be resoled in any meaningful way? I know that AE will not recraft them, but I presume that there is nonetheless a way to extend the life of the shoes? Assuming that's right, anything in particular I should have the cobbler do or not do?
> 
> Thanks.


I have been considering having "Topys" (I believe that's what they're called) put on my bit loafers for this very reason. It's my understanding that these would help to preserve the life of the soles. I am not sure about this, but I would imagine that Topys (or rubber soles) can be put on if the soles are not yet worn through.


----------



## Doctor Damage

jdsox said:


> The soles on my (beloved) Veronas do not have much life in them -- when I push on them I can feel the weaknesses where a hole will soon form.
> 
> This may be a silly question, but can the shoes be resoled in any meaningful way? I know that AE will not recraft them, but I presume that there is nonetheless a way to extend the life of the shoes? Assuming that's right, anything in particular I should have the cobbler do or not do?





Ron_A said:


> I have been considering having "Topys" (I believe that's what they're called) put on my bit loafers for this very reason. It's my understanding that these would help to preserve the life of the soles. I am not sure about this, but I would imagine that Topys (or rubber soles) can be put on if the soles are not yet worn through.


The Veronas cannot be resoled in any "meaningful way", so as soon as they are worn in (i.e. softened up) but before you wear them through, get a cobbler to glue Topy on the bottom (the thin Elysium stuff, 1.7 mm thick). Topy will take years to wear out. My Gucci loafers have this and they are my go-to shoes for long walks around Toronto.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I got a pair of the brown suede AE Lucca with lug sole yesterday. They're okay, but not as good as the leather soled ones. It's hard to say why; it's just intangible, instinctive stuff. The fit seems slightly big/loose, which I suppose is due to the different soles. (Plus, I realized, for the fourth time, that suede and me do not look good together.) They will have to go back, I'm afraid.


----------



## gman-17

Doctor Damage said:


> I got a pair of the brown suede AE Lucca with lug sole yesterday. They're okay, but not as good as the leather soled ones. It's hard to say why; it's just intangible, instinctive stuff. The fit seems slightly big/loose, which I suppose is due to the different soles. (Plus, I realized, for the fourth time, that suede and me do not look good together.) They will have to go back, I'm afraid.


Very interesting, Doc. I really like the look of the lug sole, but your experience is interesting. I think the sizing may also be due to the fact that they could be made in a different location.


----------



## Doctor Damage

gman-17 said:


> Doctor Damage said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got a pair of the brown suede AE Lucca with lug sole yesterday. They're okay, but not as good as the leather soled ones. It's hard to say why; it's just intangible, instinctive stuff. The fit seems slightly big/loose, which I suppose is due to the different soles.
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting, Doc. I really like the look of the lug sole, but your experience is interesting. I think the sizing may also be due to the fact that they could be made in a different location.
Click to expand...

I'd be surprised if they were made somewhere else since the uppers on the Lucca are done to the same standard as the uppers on the Verona. Would it make sense to have different factories doing the same shoe? Could be.

I think the prob has to do with the rubber soles: they are much less stiff than the leather soles and consequently the Lucca just seems more flexible and sloppy overall. Also, I can't figure out why they did the stitching right through the lug sole - they should have done what Gucci does and sewn the uppers to a "welt" layer and then glued the soles to that. Much more stable and easily resoled. In fact, they clearly had the materials to do that, but chose to modify the lug soles so they could sew them through. Weird stuff.

When all is said and done, I'm beginning think a layer of Topy on leather soles is probably the best configuration for bit loafers.


----------



## nringo

Doctor Damage said:


> The Veronas cannot be resoled in any "meaningful way", so as soon as they are worn in (i.e. softened up) but before you wear them through, get a cobbler to glue Topy on the bottom (the thin Elysium stuff, 1.7 mm thick). Topy will take years to wear out. My Gucci loafers have this and they are my go-to shoes for long walks around Toronto.


I just noticed that my veronas were starting to get a little thin in one spot so I took them in to get the Topy put on. Hopefully that does the job.


----------



## gman-17

Doctor Damage said:


> I'd be surprised if they were made somewhere else since the uppers on the Lucca are done to the same standard as the uppers on the Verona. Would it make sense to have different factories doing the same shoe? Could be.
> 
> I think the prob has to do with the rubber soles: they are much less stiff than the leather soles and consequently the Lucca just seems more flexible and sloppy overall. Also, I can't figure out why they did the stitching right through the lug sole - they should have done what Gucci does and sewn the uppers to a "welt" layer and then glued the soles to that. Much more stable and easily resoled. In fact, they clearly had the materials to do that, but chose to modify the lug soles so they could sew them through. Weird stuff.
> 
> When all is said and done, I'm beginning think a layer of Topy on leather soles is probably the best configuration for bit loafers.


Thorough, as always, Doc. I am curious as to where they are made and will have to ask. Sounds very different.


----------



## Got Shell?

I think the Alden flex welt is the most practical bit, since it can be factory resoled, a big plus. Also, I'm not a fan of the rounded sole.


----------



## jdsox

Doctor Damage said:


> The Veronas cannot be resoled in any "meaningful way", so as soon as they are worn in (i.e. softened up) but before you wear them through, get a cobbler to glue Topy on the bottom (the thin Elysium stuff, 1.7 mm thick). Topy will take years to wear out. My Gucci loafers have this and they are my go-to shoes for long walks around Toronto.


Thanks. I'm not familiar with Topy's, but I confess that, while it's no doubt an unreasonable sentiment, I enjoy the leather soles and am not excited about putting a rubber topping on them. But I suppose it's better than the alternative (i.e., wear through the soles and replace the shoes).


----------



## Doctor Damage

jdsox said:


> Doctor Damage said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Veronas cannot be resoled in any "meaningful way", so as soon as they are worn in (i.e. softened up) but before you wear them through, get a cobbler to glue Topy on the bottom (the thin Elysium stuff, 1.7 mm thick). Topy will take years to wear out. My Gucci loafers have this and they are my go-to shoes for long walks around Toronto.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I'm not familiar with Topy's, but I confess that, while it's no doubt an unreasonable sentiment, I enjoy the leather soles and am not excited about putting a rubber topping on them. But I suppose it's better than the alternative (i.e., wear through the soles and replace the shoes).
Click to expand...

Topy is simply the compromise you must accept for wearing lightweight shoes with thin soles: they wear out quickly. The alternative, as GotShell says, is to get the LHS/bit loafer, but those are heavy welted shoes which will feel much different on your feet.

When I went into Miller's Shoes in Hamilton wearing my Gucci loafers, the guy immediately said "those are inside shoes". That's unfortunately true, but with Topy they become outside shoes too and I need never worry about humping around in them (and wearing them out).


----------



## kforton

Just picked up a pair of the Alden Cape Cods in the rich, brown calf. I like the shoes a lot, but I wish that the hardware was a bit wider and covered more of the instep of the shoe.


----------



## Prisoner of Zendaline

In my youth, I bought a pair of really beautiful bit loafers, in a very shiny Burgundy leather, with fine Paolo Gucci style vermeil 'bits' _(more like Art Nouveau jewelry, than Horse Tack)_. Sounds sleazy, but they were obviously high-concept and high-quality...quarter-inch heels...not 'pimp-wear' by any stretch of the imagination.

My boss made fun of them, and said they were not appropriate for business wear _(I was one of the few in the office who even wore a tie and blazer, so 'business casual' would be a better term than 'business wear')_. I will add that over the years, his helpful comments to others, on other topics, led to a couple of suicides...

They looked closest to the Brooks Brothers Crocodile loafers that were shown...but dressier.

Was my boss right, or was that just some more of his sadism? Personally, I'd consider something so shiny to be good with any outfit for which Shell Cordovan tassel loafers would be appropriate.

If not appropriate for a navy blazer, pleated creme-colored wool trousers, pale blue spread-collar shirt, and silk tie, for what sort of ensemble _*would*_ such shoes be right?

Thoughts, anyone?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Prisoner of Zendaline said:


> In my youth, I bought a pair of really beautiful bit loafers, in a very shiny Burgundy leather, with fine Paolo Gucci style vermeil 'bits' _(more like Art Nouveau jewelry, than Horse Tack)_. Sounds sleazy, but they were obviously high-concept and high-quality...quarter-inch heels...not 'pimp-wear' by any stretch of the imagination.
> 
> My boss made fun of them, and said they were not appropriate for business wear _(I was one of the few in the office who even wore a tie and blazer, so 'business casual' would be a better term than 'business wear')_. I will add that over the years, his helpful comments to others, on other topics, led to a couple of suicides...
> 
> They looked closest to the Brooks Brothers Crocodile loafers that were shown...but dressier.
> 
> Was my boss right, or was that just some more of his sadism? Personally, I'd consider something so shiny to be good with any outfit for which Shell Cordovan tassel loafers would be appropriate.
> 
> If not appropriate for a navy blazer, pleated creme-colored wool trousers, pale blue spread-collar shirt, and silk tie, for what sort of ensemble _*would*_ such shoes be right?
> 
> Thoughts, anyone?


Sounds like your boss was an idiot. Ignore him!


----------



## Doctor Damage

C&J horsebit loafers.

https://img46.imageshack.us/i/crockett25b.jpg/


----------



## Doctor Damage

Cross post with another thread:
comparison of Alden Cape Cod with AE Verona.


----------



## Doctor Damage

To my surprise a local shoe store was selling off two NOS pairs of the AE Bruzzano which they had sitting around gathering dust. They had an 11D, which made me think "Yippee!" since I wear the Verona in 11D, but the sizing is quite different - I would need an 11.5D in the Bruzzano to get the right fit. I kinda liked the huge horsebits on the Bruzzano (the bits on the Verona have much smaller rings), although the Bruzzano was clearly a shorter-vamp shoe and looked slightly dated.


----------



## nringo

Doctor Damage said:


> To my surprise a local shoe store was selling off two NOS pairs of the AE Bruzzano which they had sitting around gathering dust. They had an 11D, which made me think "Yippee!" since I wear the Verona in 11D, but the sizing is quite different - I would need an 11.5D in the Bruzzano to get the right fit. I kinda liked the huge horsebits on the Bruzzano (the bits on the Verona have much smaller rings), although the Bruzzano was clearly a shorter-vamp shoe and looked slightly dated.


How much were they selling them for?


----------



## Lancette

*Vintage Gucci Bit Loafers fit*

How to the vintage Gucci bit loafers fit?

Generally, a size 41 EU equals 8 US, 42 is 9, etc. Does this run true for the old Gucci's? Or should one go down a size?


----------



## Doctor Damage

nringo said:


> Doctor Damage said:
> 
> 
> 
> To my surprise a local shoe store was selling off two NOS pairs of the AE Bruzzano which they had sitting around gathering dust. They had an 11D, which made me think "Yippee!" since I wear the Verona in 11D, but the sizing is quite different - I would need an 11.5D in the Bruzzano to get the right fit. I kinda liked the huge horsebits on the Bruzzano (the bits on the Verona have much smaller rings), although the Bruzzano was clearly a shorter-vamp shoe and looked slightly dated.
> 
> 
> 
> How much were they selling them for?
Click to expand...

I don't remember but it was something like CAD$150, which is a steal. I doubt they would ship them to the United States, but you never know - here's the store: .


Lancette said:


> How to the vintage Gucci bit loafers fit?
> 
> Generally, a size 41 EU equals 8 US, 42 is 9, etc. Does this run true for the old Gucci's? Or should one go down a size?


I don't know and I suspect only one or two of our members might. I seem to remember someone posting that the old ones were true to size for length, but very narrow. I don't like to comment on shoes I haven't bought or at least tried on in a store, but from regularly viewing vintage models on eBay (and inspecting a pair in a shoe repair shop) I believe they were narrow in width. They will stretch of course, but if you are a EE or EEE or have really thick/fat feet then I suspect you should just forget about vintage Gucci loafers.

The new ones are completely different in terms of sizing, but enough members have those that we can certainly recommend sizing.


----------



## Lancette

Doctor Damage said:


> Lancette said:
> 
> 
> 
> How to the vintage Gucci bit loafers fit?
> 
> Generally, a size 41 EU equals 8 US, 42 is 9, etc. Does this run true for the old Gucci's? Or should one go down a size?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know and I suspect only one or two of our members might. I seem to remember someone posting that the old ones were true to size for length, but very narrow. I don't like to comment on shoes I haven't bought or at least tried on in a store, but from regularly viewing vintage models on eBay (and inspecting a pair in a shoe repair shop) I believe they were narrow in width. They will stretch of course, but if you are a EE or EEE or have really thick/fat feet then I suspect you should just forget about vintage Gucci loafers.
> 
> The new ones are completely different in terms of sizing, but enough members have those that we can certainly recommend sizing.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I have medium-narrow feet, so I am more worried about length (heel-slippage and what not)


----------



## Doctor Damage

Cole Haan bit loafers.

https://img519.imageshack.us/i/haan1.jpg/https://img522.imageshack.us/i/haan2.jpg/https://img689.imageshack.us/i/haan8.jpg/https://img163.imageshack.us/i/haan3.jpg/https://img692.imageshack.us/i/haan11.jpg/

https://img4.imageshack.us/i/337345807o.jpg/https://img718.imageshack.us/i/337345853o.jpg/https://img687.imageshack.us/i/337345886o.jpg/https://img62.imageshack.us/i/337345937o.jpg/


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

Never liked bit loafers. Penny and tassel loafers yes. But for me bit loafers are the demesne of old men.


----------



## D&S

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Never liked bit loafers. Penny and tassel loafers yes. But for me bit loafers are the demesne of old men.


For all the comments about bit loafers being for old men and for arrivistes, I know of no other article of clothing (aside from the Barbour jacket) that is almost exclusively the preserve of upper and upper middle class people of all ages. Sartorially "correct" or not, they are THE standard formal shoes for most preppy men in my experience, while still being appropriate for casual wear. The contempt they get on this site is beyond me.


----------



## Got Shell?

I concur. They can look great.


----------



## Overman138

Here's a bit driving moc:


----------



## bd79cc

I'm in the market for a pair of brown bit loafers. I've tried on a pair of Ferragamo Rich Moccasins and a pair of the current Classic Gucci Loafers, but no one locally carries the Alden Cape Cod bit loafer. How does it fit relative, say, to the Brooks LHS? If I wear a 10 D in the LHS, is this the size Cape Cod bit loafer I'd order? Thanks in advance for your input.

P.S. The Brooks LHS in 10 D fits me perfectly. Relative to this, the Ferragamo Rich Moccasin in size 10 D fits me narrow at the toes, tight across the instep and tight at the heel. It is a long shoe, in the classic Italian loafer tradition. A 10-1/2 D would probably work fine and resemble the Alden Aberdeen last in fit. The Classic Gucci Loafer fits me ever so slightly looser than the LHS. The Gucci's instep isn't grabby as on the LHS and that big round Gucci toebox is more spacious than that of the LHS. Although the Ferragamo is the better made shoe, the Classic Gucci Loafer's shorter, wider profile makes it an extremely comfortable shoe right out of the box. My only concern would be the stretchiness of the leather and how loose the shoe would get after break-in.


----------



## Doctor Damage

bd79cc said:


> I'm in the market for a pair of brown bit loafers. I've tried on a pair of Ferragamo Rich Moccasins and a pair of the current Classic Gucci Loafers, but no one locally carries the Alden Cape Cod bit loafer. How does it fit relative, say, to the Brooks LHS? If I wear a 10 D in the LHS, is this the size Cape Cod bit loafer I'd order? Thanks in advance for your input.


I am certain some members here own both, so hopefully they will chime in with their experiences. I do know that members have made it clear that the Cap Cods will stretch, so if they are tight when you buy them, they won't be later. When the CAD goes to par I will be ordering a pair of Cape Cods and I will order them in my regular size - I've tried them on in the past and determined this. They will be tight in the toe box to start, but I know they will stretch.


> The Brooks LHS in 10 D fits me perfectly. Relative to this, the Ferragamo Rich Moccasin in size 10 D fits me narrow at the toes, tight across the instep and tight at the heel. It is a long shoe, in the classic Italian loafer tradition. A 10-1/2 D would probably work fine and resemble the Alden Aberdeen last in fit. The Classic Gucci Loafer fits me ever so slightly looser than the LHS. The Gucci's instep isn't grabby as on the LHS and that big round Gucci toebox is more spacious than that of the LHS. Although the Ferragamo is the better made shoe, the Classic Gucci Loafer's shorter, wider profile makes it an extremely comfortable shoe right out of the box. My only concern would be the stretchiness of the leather and how loose the shoe would get after break-in.


This type of shoe _always_ stretches (in girth/width, not length). You have to be psychologically prepared for that to happen and size accordingly. I bought a pair of those current Gucci models last year and sold them quickly as they were too big. I take a 10.5D in most shoes (AE, Alden, etc.) but need the 9.5D in the classic Gucci, although I wear 10.5D in the ribbon Gucci. So I suggest considering going down a full size, although that's not gospel as your toes might reach to the end.

Although the Gucci might seem less well made than the Ferragamo's, they are tough shoes and will likely last much longer. I have not been that impressed with Ferragamo's offerings generally, althought I haven't seen the Rich model specifically. These Italian companies seem to make several different grades of shoe quality, which is not always evident at first glance (unless you handle every model, every year, for several years). Of course they price them all the same, so that's no help. It's not like AE or Alden with which you can be sure everything they sell is good quality - when buying Italian loafers, it's "buyer be picky".


----------



## D&S

Overman138 said:


> Here's a bit driving moc:


What brand are these?


----------



## ds23pallas

bd79cc said:


> How does it fit relative, say, to the Brooks LHS? If I wear a 10 D in the LHS, is this the size Cape Cod bit loafer I'd order? Thanks in advance for your input.


bd - I have the Cape Cod (drop tassel - same last as the bit) and the LHS in shell cordovan. The Cape Cod is 9.5D (my "normal" size) and the LHS is 9D. The two shoes feel completely different on the foot, which I suppose is a given with the different construction techniques. I agree with DD that the Cape Cod felt a little snug in the toes initially, but they quickly became my favourite moccassin construction shoe (I also have Weejuns, Sebagos, Gucci Classic, AE Walden and the Cole Haan Bennett). Hope this helps some.


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## bd79cc

DD and ds - thanks for all the insight! Your commentary makes everything I've observed in my bit loafer hunt make sense.


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## Doctor Damage

Maharaja of Jodhpur.

https://img37.imageshack.us/i/0000323500007maharajahj.jpg/


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## Doctor Damage

Current brown suede Gucci model (015938).

https://img442.imageshack.us/i/600x44930518221.jpg/https://img186.imageshack.us/i/600x44930518222.jpg/


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## kentucky gentleman in m

*Admission*

I know I shouldn't like bits, but aside from a burgundy tassel they are my favorite footwear available.


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## JQB

*Gucci bit loafer - with stripe*

Hi Clay, Sorry I am a newbie here, but I had to ask about the picture. Is this a real Gucci or a fake - I just haven't seen one where the green-red stripe is not enclosed in leather and the shoe-tree is covering the insole. All the other posts show the fabric enclosed. Maybe it is a very old design - could you enlighten me?



Clay J said:


> Not to dig up a thread, but I just found a few odd Gucci bit varieties at home...


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## Doctor Damage

I was in Toronto yesteryday and was able to check out the new Allen Edmonds bit loafer with rubbers soles. This is a really impressive shoe: nice leathers, nice horsebit, great proportions, and a really tough rubber sole (rather thick, too). I am definitely going to order a pair as soon as the next AE trunk show goes through town. I was really impressed and liked them a lot more than the AE Lucca.


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## JQB

*what happened to green-red-green*

Can anyone explain the origin of the green-red-green ribbon, does it mean anything? Is it unique to Gucci or did anyone else do similar.

There is a pic somewhere in the middle of this thread (copy below) with some black loafers with a green-red-green ribbon but it is not enclosed in the rounded leather edge like the Gucci ones are now, the ribbon just sat under the horsebit buckle - straight across.

There were loads of those in London in the 90s but I can't see any of them here - maybe they never hit the States? Maybe not Gucci?

Now there is blue and brown ribbon as well !
What is it all about? Any more Green-red-Green Pics anyone?


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## Doctor Damage

Doctor Damage said:


> I was in Toronto yesteryday and was able to check out the new Allen Edmonds bit loafer with rubbers soles. This is a really impressive shoe: nice leathers, nice horsebit, great proportions, and a really tough rubber sole (rather thick, too). I am definitely going to order a pair as soon as the next AE trunk show goes through town. I was really impressed and liked them a lot more than the AE Lucca.


I have a pair of the Firenze on order through a local clothing store. AE told them that customers have been finding they fit a bit large, so apparently AE recommends dropping down 1/2 size from the Verona.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Doctor Damage said:


> I have a pair of the Firenze on order through a local clothing store. AE told them that customers have been finding they fit a bit large, so apparently AE recommends dropping down 1/2 size from the Verona.


My new AE Firenze loafers arrived on Monday and I am impressed with the fit and design. I think they make a great Ferragamo alternative (and are probably better made). The leather is extremely soft, with super-large scotchgrain (these are certainly casual shoes) and the toe is a chisel shape. The soles are rubber, with low heels and the rubber is extremely tough and much more rigid and stable than the lug soles on the AE Lucca: these are a good substitute for leather soles. Below are photos of the Firenze in black (the tongue on the right shoe is fine, it's just squashed down a bit from being in the box).

https://img203.imageshack.us/i/copyoffirenze001.jpg/https://img688.imageshack.us/i/copyoffirenze002p.jpg/

Below is a photo of the Firenze (10.5D) next to the Verona (11D) for comparison. The fit is very similar between the two, but the Firenze's leather is softer so they feel more like slippers than the Verona.

https://img688.imageshack.us/i/copyoffirenzeverona.jpg/


----------



## bd79cc

^That's a really nice pair of bits, DD. I might stop over at Nordstrom's tomorrow and take a look!


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## Doctor Damage

I just bought a pair of the Cape Cod bit loafers in dark brown (from O'Connells). I tried to tighten the horsebits to eliminate the "jingle" sound and they snapped (they are cast metal). I managed to find some matching gold-coloured wire in a local craft store and in true _jugaad_ tradition bent replacement rings. The photo below shows the homemade rings. Nice shoes, although a little rough on the details.

https://img153.imageshack.us/i/0017d.jpg/


----------



## JQB

Bit of an odd question here - but who came out with the bit loafer first? 
I was told that the horse bit apparently has been used even in roman times as a decorative feature. The recent style of the bit seems to have changed over time - seems more rounded and less oval - anyone got pictures of horse bit style loafers that pre-date the classic 70s/80s, 40's to 60's??


----------



## Doctor Damage

JQB said:


> Bit of an odd question here - but who came out with the bit loafer first?
> I was told that the horse bit apparently has been used even in roman times as a decorative feature. The recent style of the bit seems to have changed over time - seems more rounded and less oval - anyone got pictures of horse bit style loafers that pre-date the classic 70s/80s, 40's to 60's??


The horsebits on the oldest Gucci loafers that I have seen were much larger than today's and fully circular in shape. The oval shape seems to have been favoured by AE and Church's.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Gucci will be offering a new/old version of the lug sole horsebit loafer this fall (245972) which will apparently have brass/yellow hardware and a lower heel.

https://img257.imageshack.us/i/245972b6v001000001full.jpg/https://img708.imageshack.us/i/245972b6v002535001full.jpg/


----------



## JQB

Doctor Damage said:


> The horsebits on the oldest Gucci loafers that I have seen were much larger than today's and fully circular in shape. The oval shape seems to have been favoured by AE and Church's.


Didn't know Church's did bit loafers, I knew Crocket & Jones did.
Perhaps you could do a competition as to who can come up with the oldest bit loafer! I'm also still curious as to why a horse-bit is the de facto standard as opposed to any other form of chain/decoration. Does anyone know the answer to that?


----------



## Doctor Damage

JQB said:


> Doctor Damage said:
> 
> 
> 
> The horsebits on the oldest Gucci loafers that I have seen were much larger than today's and fully circular in shape. The oval shape seems to have been favoured by AE and Church's.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't know Church's did bit loafers, I knew Crocket & Jones did. Perhaps you could do a competition as to who can come up with the oldest bit loafer! I'm also still curious as to why a horse-bit is the de facto standard as opposed to any other form of chain/decoration. Does anyone know the answer to that?
Click to expand...

Here is the oldest, most vintage pair of Gucci loafers I have ever seen:

https://img51.imageshack.us/i/g763a.jpg/

Church's no longer makes horsebit loafers, but when they did they made probably the best ever; classic proportions, solid quality.

Why horsebits and not some other trinket? Guccio Gucci, the man who started the company in 1906 was a saddle maker who branched into bags and later shoes. I think it's quite understandable that he would have used horsebits since his background would have been filled with them.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Those new Gucci's look nice.

I love my Cape Cod bits but they are in really terrible shape. I don't even know if it's worth trying to get them resoled.


----------



## ds23pallas

AdamsSutherland said:


> I love my Cape Cod bits but they are in really terrible shape. I don't even know if it's worth trying to get them resoled.


AS,

Just curious about how your Cape Cods have deteriorated. I have a pair of drop tassels that have been resoled once. I thought that the heel and sole wore out too quickly but I think the upper and lining have held up remarkably well.


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## Doctor Damage

Those of you who like the Alden Flex Welt horsebit loafer (Van last) owe it to yourselves to click on the following links and drool at some great shoe porn courtesy of that Japanese site Harris found back in the day.

Alden 5725F
Alden 5727F


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## eagle2250

^^
LOL. I won't have to click on the website. I'll just open my closet doors and gaze at the Alden flex-welt Horse-bits displayed on my shoe racks!  They look just like a pair of LHS's but, with snaffle-bits.


----------



## JQB

Can anyone tell me when Gucci stopped making this shoe featured ??
The new style encloses the tape in leather - this old style was discontinued. When did the switch happen?
I am also interested in the model number(s).


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## Doctor Damage

It's impossible to tell, as we simply don't have enough examples with reliable dates. In fact, the ribbon loafers always had the ribbon surrounded by leather, so yours are a special model. I can only guess by the shape and leather they date from the 1980s, or maybe 1990s at the latest.


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## JQB

Wow Doc damage you are quick off the mark!

Do you know when the ribbon loafer first emerged then? And I thought they stopped it for a good long while and then re-introduced it again relatively recently.
thanks


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## Doctor Damage

The ribbon loafer was almost as old as the regular model and was available side-by-side ever since (as near as we can tell) until the Tom Ford days when it disappeared for a while. The new version is not the same, actually, since the strap is different and the heels are low, but it's a reasonable facsimile. Nothing is as it was...


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## Doctor Damage

Dustin Hoffman wearing Gucci lug soles in the film _Wag The Dog_.

https://img33.imageshack.us/i/wagthedog.jpg/

Interesting penny loafers on DeNiro, too.


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## Doctor Damage

AE Verona bit loafers in a nice cognac colour. These are size 9D and have extra stitching on the beefrolls which production models do not have, so I assume these are samples. However, I wish AE offered this colour.

https://img715.imageshack.us/i/b3chdwcwkkgrhqng0ew5cuk.jpg/https://img442.imageshack.us/i/b3ct9qcwkkgrhqfiuew5jcr.jpg/


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## Doctor Damage

Time for brand spotters to get busy!


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## Doctor Damage

Gucci vintage bit loafers. These are really strange, but I kinda like them.

https://img217.imageshack.us/i/394599629o.jpg/
https://img62.imageshack.us/i/394599708o.jpg/
https://img37.imageshack.us/i/394599775o.jpg/


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## Doctor Damage

Church's vintage bit loafers!


----------



## TMMKC

The toe box on the Church's model looks a little longer that Gucci, or is it just the angle of the photo? 

Another matter...I am thinking about buying some AE black suede Lucca bits this fall. The salesman at Nordstron told me, like the Veronas, the Lucca model runs short...so to size up.

Knowing the Lucca is a relatively new model, I haven't heard anything about it...good or bad. You?


----------



## JQB

*Vintage Edward Green Bit Loafer*

Vintage Edward Green bit loafers - i spoke to them and they can still make 'em to order although discontinued.
A true classic.


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## JQB

Alfred Sargent "Brompton" as sold 1990s. Classic English style though not Moc.


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## JQB

*Gucci type webbing backed bit loafers - are they back in?*

They're back! Kurt Geiger doing a webbing backed bit loafer 2010. I've been looking for this style for a while and I've found three just like it in the last week.


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## gman-17

JQB said:


> Alfred Sargent "Brompton" as sold 1990s. Classic English style though not Moc.


That is a really nice bit, I cannot believe Chay hasn't told me about that one.


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## Doctor Damage

Good photos, everyone. Always fun to see bit loafers from other brands. Hopefully the ribbon style comes back into popularity and we see more variations from different brands!

Regading those vintage Church's: they are probably a narrow width, hence they appear longer. Italian shoes past a certain age always seem to be narrow even though marked medium.


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## Doctor Damage

Some interesting vintage Gucci bit loafers. Note the edging to the rear counter strap: the leather has been folded under before stitching - no one does that today.

https://img844.imageshack.us/i/3a800x600.jpg/
https://img201.imageshack.us/i/3d800x600.jpg/
https://img685.imageshack.us/i/3f800x600.jpg/


----------



## Henry346

Where should I go to find older Gucci loafers? I don't mind the price but the current season of loafers has a very unflattering cut in my opinion.


----------



## JQB

Doctor Damage said:


> Good photos, everyone. Always fun to see bit loafers from other brands. Hopefully the ribbon style comes back into popularity and we see more variations from different brands!
> 
> Regading those vintage Church's: they are probably a narrow width, hence they appear longer. Italian shoes past a certain age always seem to be narrow even though marked medium.


Doc Damage - Any idea what year were those Church's vintage loafers??


----------



## LanceW

Does Alden make a chocolate suede bit loafer with a silver bit? I like the looks of the AE Lucca but the rubber sole makes it unusuable for me.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Henry346 said:


> Where should I go to find older Gucci loafers? I don't mind the price but the current season of loafers has a very unflattering cut in my opinion.


Ebay is the only possibly source, which always has a few older pairs available at any given time. Sizing is unknown, as the sort of people who bought and wore Gucci loafers in the 70s and 80s are, generally speaking, not the sort of people who discuss footwear on the internet!


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## Doctor Damage

JQB said:


> Doc Damage - Any idea what year were those Church's vintage loafers??


Church's has not had a bit loafer in their catalogue for nearly ten years or longer. Beyond that, who can say?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Gucci 157440 in brown leather (new).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Gucci loafers are not a new thing.

https://img29.imageshack.us/i/moonlanding.jpg/


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## Doctor Damage

I was in Toronto yesterday and discovered the Gucci store is not longer stocking the classic models.


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## Doctor Damage

EG bit loafers.

https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/kgrhqqokjye3rlyrdrbn80j.jpg/


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## Doctor Damage

Duston Hoffman:

https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/hoffmanlr.jpg/

Francis Ford Coppola:

https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/coppolalr.jpg/


----------



## ludo

I have been trying to locate a discontinued style of Gucci Loafer, it was circa 2004, horsebit driving mocc, full rubber membrane sole with no heel, round toe and had a thick exposed white stitching. If i had the name and style number, my search would be easier. Thanks!


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## Doctor Damage

Don't want to get your feet wet? Don't like strains from water, slush, or bodily fluids? But still want to wear stylish footwear? Gucci now has the answer to your problem: 100% rubber bit loafers.

https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/guccirubber.jpg/


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## Doctor Damage

Gucci is now selling exactly the shoes I have always wanted to buy: classic loafers in scotchgrain leather with low heels and gold horsebits.


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## FLMike

Doctor Damage said:


> Gucci is now selling exactly the shoes I have always wanted to buy: classic loafers in scotchgrain leather with low heels and gold horsebits.


I like that model as well. I have the same shoe, but in dark brown calf w/antique gold bit. I bought them at the Gucci store in NYC, probably 8-10 years ago. I've had them resoled once, but otherwise they're still in good condition overall. I wonder why the description says "antique silver hardware", when it's clearly antique gold.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Youtube video on tearing the soles off a pair of Gucci 015938 loafers and replacing them - fascinating stuff.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Cole Haan bit loafers - wish they still made these.
The photos are from some guy's blog but I can't remember the link.


----------



## hookem12387

acutestyle.tumblr.com I believe.


----------



## rwaldron

I saw a pair of Bit Loafers at a Nordstrom Rack a couple of weeks ago, and I've been kicking myself ever since nor not getting them (or at least for not writing down the make and model). They were brown with a faux-alligator pattern to them (the reason I didn't buy them), and a rubber sole that rolled up the back. super comfy. They would've been perfect for tailgating.

Also, I still think someone should make shell bit loafers - horse bit on horse hide.


----------



## Ron_A

rwaldron said:


> I saw a pair of Bit Loafers at a Nordstrom Rack a couple of weeks ago, and I've been kicking myself ever since nor not getting them (or at least for not writing down the make and model). They were brown with a faux-alligator pattern to them (the reason I didn't buy them), and a rubber sole that rolled up the back. super comfy. They would've been perfect for tailgating.
> 
> Also, I still think someone should make shell bit loafers - horse bit on horse hide.


The shoes that you mention may have been the Martin Dingman Saxon model (which are carried by Nordstrom).


----------



## Barnavelt

Doctor Damage said:


> Youtube video on tearing the soles off a pair of Gucci 015938 loafers and replacing them - fascinating stuff.


I loved that video. It's such a feeling of transferred satisfaction watching a true craftsman plying his trade with such skill. I get the same feeling watching "How It's Made" which, as you probably already know, is an excellent Canadian product in and of itself.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Doctor Damage said:


> Cole Haan bit loafers - wish they still made these.
> The photos are from some guy's blog but I can't remember the link.


If those are the Ascot II, they were well supplied with them the last time I swung through a Cole Haan outlet. I wish I'd had the cash to pick up a pair at the time.


----------



## rwaldron

Ron_A said:


> The shoes that you mention may have been the Martin Dingman Saxon model (which are carried by Nordstrom).


I think thats it! Thanks!


----------



## drlivingston

I used to wear my ColeHaan bit loafers with everything. My wife likes me in tassle loafers so, oh well, I guess that I will be putting these on the exchange. lol


----------



## rwaldron

Doctor Damage said:


> Cole Haan bit loafers - wish they still made these.
> The photos are from some guy's blog but I can't remember the link.


How do those differ from the Air Aiden that they still make? https://www.colehaan.com/colehaan/catalog/product.jsp?catId=100&productId=384783&productGroup=384784


----------



## Doctor Damage

rwaldron said:


> How do those differ from the Air Aiden that they still make? https://www.colehaan.com/colehaan/catalog/product.jsp?catId=100&productId=384783&productGroup=384784


Don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if they might be a notch or two down in quality from the classic Bennett models (which pre-dated the Nike purchase). But I'm glad to see they still have bit loafers.


----------



## bd79cc

I _love_ these shoes, especially in this color. A couple of years back, I saw a salesman in the Men's Department at Saks near Union Square in San Francisco wearing a pair of these. They looked _sublime._



gccg said:


> Barker Black Wolfe


----------



## Doctor Damage

bd79cc said:


> I _love_ these shoes, especially in this color. A couple of years back, I saw a salesman in the Men's Department at Saks near Union Square in San Francisco wearing a pair of these. They looked _sublime._


The colour dark brown is underrated when it comes to footwear, in my opinion. I am always disappointed to learn that many shoes I would like are only available in black or tan - what the heck kind of colour is tan for footwear?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Thanks to one of our Canadian members who sent me a link to this great blog post about Gucci loafers.

Here's a photo from the blog:


----------



## bd79cc

Doctor Damage said:


> Thanks to one of our Canadian members who sent me a link to this great blog post about Gucci loafers.
> 
> Here's a photo from the blog:


Thanks for the excellent blog post, DD. But "A mess of worn-out Gucci loafers?" This looks like a fertile field indeed for Nick V. or someone like him.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's the 273904 model - I don't particularly like the antiqued burgundy finish, but I do find the "gunboat" soles kind of fun. This model came in brown and black scotchgrain and black suede, all of which looked much better.


----------



## Topsider

The maiden voyage of my new Dexter Gilfords. These run long. I had to go down 1/2 size in length.


----------



## cincydavid

Do you have pics of the sole/heel and the sockliner? I'm considering some Dexter 1957's and would be curious to see more pics.


----------



## Topsider

cincydavid said:


> Do you have pics of the sole/heel and the sockliner? I'm considering some Dexter 1957's and would be curious to see more pics.


Here ya' go.


----------



## Trad-ish

Did I miss your review of those, Topsider?


----------



## Doctor Damage

What movie is this image from?


----------



## cincydavid

If those Dexters aren't identical to my $325 Alden Cape Cods I'll eat my hat. I know it's been discussed previously that they may very well come out of the same plant. No point in paying more just to have the Alden name on them...


----------



## Topsider

cincydavid said:


> If those Dexters aren't identical to my $325 Alden Cape Cods I'll eat my hat. I know it's been discussed previously that they may very well come out of the same plant.


They do come from the same factory, and they're pretty much the same shoe, except for the contrast stitching on the Dexter (which I like).


----------



## wacolo

Doctor Damage said:


> What movie is this image from?


My first thought was_ The Talented Mr. Ripley_, but then I thought of _School Ties_. Good question.


----------



## Topsider

Trad-ish said:


> Did I miss your review of those, Topsider?


No review. Very pleased with them, though. Basically the same shoe as the Alden Cape Cod for nearly half the price. It has me wondering if the rest of Dexter's 1957 line is as good, particularly the Pembroke. You can never have too many penny loafers.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Topsider said:


> cincydavid said:
> 
> 
> 
> If those Dexters aren't identical to my $325 Alden Cape Cods I'll eat my hat. I know it's been discussed previously that they may very well come out of the same plant.
> 
> 
> 
> They do come from the same factory, and they're pretty much the same shoe, except for the contrast stitching on the Dexter (which I like).
Click to expand...

They're obviously identical in design and construction, although as has been said materials might be slightly different. I too like the contrast stitching and would prefer it if I could get it.


----------



## Patrick06790

Topsider said:


> Here ya' go.


Now that I see these I realize I have a pair, snagged at the thrift shop some time back, filed and forgotten.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here is my current lineup of horsebit loafers - from left to right with sizing: AE Verona (11D), Gucci 157440 (10.5D), Gucci 307929 (9D). They fit roughly the same, although the AE and the ribbon Gucci's have longer toe boxes so they look larger. The scotchgrain Gucci loafers are particularly wonderful and are a 100% match for my feet, even better than the AEs which I had previously considered excellent.


----------



## Ron_A

Doctor Damage said:


> Here is my current lineup of horsebit loafers - from left to right with sizing: AE Verona (11D), Gucci 157440 (10.5D), Gucci 307929 (9D). They fit roughly the same, although the AE and the ribbon Gucci's have longer toe boxes so they look larger. The scotchgrain Gucci loafers are particularly wonderful and are a 100% match for my feet, even better than the AEs which I had previously considered excellent.


Interesting on the sizing (that you had to go down two whole sizes from AE to Gucci). I have both the AE Lucca and Verona - the Lucca runs a bit big, in my experience, but my Veronas seem pretty true to size. I still need to pick up the black Guccis with the ribbon - I love the look of those (I constantly am on the lookout over on ebay).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Ron_A said:


> Interesting on the sizing (that you had to go down two whole sizes from AE to Gucci). I have both the AE Lucca and Verona - the Lucca runs a bit big, in my experience, but my Veronas seem pretty true to size. I still need to pick up the black Guccis with the ribbon - I love the look of those (I constantly am on the lookout over on ebay).


The sizing is all over the map and I had the same problem you did with the AE Lucci: the Lucca in size 11D was significantly larger than the Verona in size 11D, which I credit more to the flexible rubber soles than anything else, since they're obviously made on the same last. I can wear the Gucci 015938 model in size 9.5D and I wear the Alden Cape Cod horsebits in 10.5D, just to confuse things more than they are.

I like the ribbon Gucci's a lot, but they have one flaw: the straps holding the bits are not sewn into the beefrolls, which means the straps and the bits will not tighten up when you put your feet into them and will be loose (and will jingle). Fortunately, the rings on Gucci bits are actually solid metal and can be worked with pliers, which is what I did. The rings on the AEs and Aldens are molded metal and will snap if you use pliers on them (please trust me on this one...).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Gucci has introduced those wonderful scotchgrain loafers in brown and burgundy smooth calf - time to fire up the credit card! Who knows when such classic looking models will be available again?


----------



## camel12

Love these shoes. Are they still being produced?

Shoeline is the only retailer I could find selling these but, they did not have 10m.


----------



## mcarthur

brown


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Mac branches out stylewise - nice to see!


----------



## m_ujifusa

mcarthur said:


> brown


Which brand/model are these? Also, for anyone looking at the Dexter Gilford on Shoeline I called them today to ask about availability of other sizes (normal widths) and they said they would be receiving replenishment in 3-4 months. If anyone knows another source to purchase the Gilford at in the meantime I would appreciate the tip.


----------



## Tilton

Those appear to be the alden handswens in calf.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Indeed...Alden flex-welt Bit Loafers! They are indeed a very comfortable and handsome shoe.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I now have two pairs of these - perfect fit & proportions.

https://postimg.org/image/voug1ben1/
https://postimg.org/image/hqdbcbut7/
https://postimg.org/image/xoy75n979/
https://postimg.org/image/gb07jecvl/


----------



## LouB

Recent purchase of AE Bruzzano from eBay.


----------



## Kreiger

https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF40002_1_40000000001_-1

Looking good. Better hardware than the Verona 'I,' I say.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Kreiger said:


> https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF40002_1_40000000001_-1
> 
> Looking good. Better hardware than the Verona 'I,' I say.


I like it. I made the leap into bit loafers this week -- Cole Haan Ascot II, which the outlet near me had for near-Weejun money. I kind of wanted to buy the brown and the tan, but I just went for the brown. I like 'em.


----------



## pahhhoul

Topsider said:


> The maiden voyage of my new Dexter Gilfords. These run long. I had to go down 1/2 size in length.


Great looking bit loafers.
I'm off to get a pair 1/2 size smaller than was I usually wear!
Thanks TopSider!


----------



## Lannes

Kreiger said:


> https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF40002_1_40000000001_-1
> 
> Looking good. Better hardware than the Verona 'I,' I say.


But they've apparently done away with narrow widths...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Kreiger said:


> https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF40002_1_40000000001_-1
> 
> Looking good. Better hardware than the Verona 'I,' I say.


I've said this before, but it's worth repeating: the Verona models (and presumably the Verona II, too) are what old Gucci loafers were. Buy them.


----------



## Doctor Damage

AE Verona

https://postimg.org/image/fly1vk487/https://postimg.org/image/leu6mqb8x/https://postimg.org/image/rp6ydby65/


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Looks like some of the classic Gucci bits are on Gilt this evening.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I purchased a pair of those new AE Verona II bit loafers and I highly recommend them. They come in a really nice antique brown finish, just beautiful (the previous Verona model came in a plain dark brown). The lasts are the same shape, but they've changed the size designation: I wear size 11D in the Verona, but apparently size 10.5D in the Verona II. Strange, but this "tag change" means the Verona II is more consistent with sizing in the rest of AE's lineup.

I hadn't intended to buy anything today but was early for a lunch and happened to go into Harry Rosen's (Toronto) to kill a few minutes, and there the shoes were, calling to me. How could I say no?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate




----------



## Doctor Damage

^ awesome


----------



## jwlester

I haven't seen anyone weigh in on the widths of the Dexters. I see M and 2W. Can anyone advise on how they run width wise? I always fall between M and W. Thanks.


----------



## rwaldron

I just saw this:


__ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/158189005635086929/

...and now I think I've fallen in love


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I think I prefer the curved strap, but those have a certain something with the exposed seam and the beautiful finishing. Do you know who made them? (EDIT: Ha! I thought they might be Rancourts).

I just posted this in the Equus Leather thread -- and while it would be the worst possible taste to pair this with a bit loafer, it's cool nonetheless.


----------



## Ensiferous

Youthful Repp-robate said:


>


That is a great image. Angle, composition, subject isolation, bokeh... and the shoes and clothes are excellent too.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Ensiferous said:


> That is a great image. Angle, composition, subject isolation, bokeh... and the shoes and clothes are excellent too.


Thank you -- I wish the mirror wasn't there, but it isn't too jarring. If I'd shot this on film, I'd happily print it.


----------



## Doctor Damage

The infamous Mark Thatcher wearing a pair of ribbon Gucci bit loafers. I have these and they're solid, if slightly no-frills for the price. The next pair I get I won't put topy and and just let them wear in (and out).

https://postimg.org/image/o0x44h5zt/https://postimg.org/image/b5ar09t19/https://postimg.org/image/z1j99vovr/https://postimg.org/image/lnt5a9yhn/


----------



## Dieu et les Dames

Sometimes I look at Alden and Gucci together, and the contrast seems a little humorous.





































So similar, and yet so completely different!

Thank you Tilton for the Gucci's. They've been holding up extremely well.


----------



## Tilton

Excellent! I wish my own brown Guccis were that color instead of the standard dull brown. The pics don't quite do justice to that patina.


----------



## redcorals

*What makes a Gucci loafer so.....*

I took pics of my Gucci bits that expired recently. Peeled them a little....


----------



## herfitup

Just got these in from eBay. Florsheim Royal Imperial Bit Loafer made in Italy. They need some time with shoe trees but I think they will clean up nicely.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I have my brown bits. Should I say no to black ones?

I kind of want a pair to treat like Weejuns, and I think black is as good as brown for that.


----------



## bd79cc

Doctor Damage said:


> Florsheim Imperial bit loafers.





rwaldron said:


> I just saw this:
> 
> 
> __ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/158189005635086929/
> 
> ...and now I think I've fallen in love


I saw the additional pictures of the Rancourt bit loafers on the website, and I love the way the look of these old Florsheims lives on in them.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Doctor Damage said:


> Seriously vintage pair of Gucci loafers (on eBay right now).


Previously I had speculated that this pair is an example of original or near-original Gucci loafers. Here's a pair from the 1950s as showed in the Gucci museum (on their website):

https://postimg.org/image/qc9tyqsij/


----------



## herfitup

rwaldron said:


> I just saw this:
> 
> 
> __ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/158189005635086929/
> 
> ...and now I think I've fallen in love


You know they weren't made in Italy but the spirit of the old Florsheim Royal Imperial comes through. Much more structured but I love the leather and need to put them on the list.


----------



## Doctor Damage

redcorals said:


> I took pics of my Gucci bits that expired recently. Peeled them a little....
> 
> View attachment 10139


Those actually have a shank - how interesting. Thanks for posting!


----------



## bd79cc

^Ha! Now I know why my pair of those Gucci waffle-stompers support my feet so well. . . and took so long to break in!


----------



## Bit Man

I found this thread while surfing for information (and pictures!) about bit loafers, and signed up to contribute. My collection:










Left to right, top to bottom:

AE Lucca, Dexter 1957 Gilford, Cole Haan Ascott II.


----------



## Bit Man

...and some loafer pics:

My Cole Haan Ascot II's:










And with shorts!:










Gucci pics:





































Galoshes:










And even sandals!:










If you guys are interested, I'll post some of the outfits that I've put together with bits.


----------



## Fraser Tartan

Bit Man said:


> ...and some loafer pics:
> 
> My Cole Haan Ascot II's:


I have the same loafers. I like the shape of the toe box. They've held up well.


----------



## Bit Man

Fraser Tartan said:


> I have the same loafers. I like the shape of the toe box. They've held up well.


So far mine are holding up nicely. I've had sole protectors put on them, so that should help. I'm quite happy with them. Bought them on The Bay for ~$120. I might buy some AE Veronas for myself as a birthday present. Of course, I'd love to find the perfect chocolate suede pair, too. I could kick myself for not getting a pair of the AE Luccas when they were being clearanced...


----------



## Piqué

I love those red Guccis.


----------



## orange fury

I've never really considered bit loafers as something I would own, but I really like those Cole Haans...


----------



## Bit Man

orange fury said:


> I've never really considered bit loafers as something I would own, but I really like those Cole Haans...


 I haven't paired them with a suit, and probably won't, but they go surprisingly well with everything from shorts to a sport coat and odd trousers. I've become a big fan of bits.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

orange fury said:


> I've never really considered bit loafers as something I would own, but I really like those Cole Haans...


The Ascot II has made its way to the outlets, and it doesn't take much luck to find them at around $120 (typically 40% off of a nominal retail of $200). I scored mine for trivially less than that. Mine have held up well enough. I like the looks of Bit Man's Gilfords*, which seem to have a taller toe-box, but I find that the slightly lower toebox of the Haans works well on my feet, so IDK.

*He loses points for the slightly matchy-matchy drink and pocket square, of course. :icon_viking:


----------



## Bit Man

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> ...*He loses points for the slightly matchy-matchy drink and pocket square, of course. :icon_viking:


That shows commitment.


----------



## fishertw

Bit Man said:


> I haven't paired them with a suit, and probably won't, but they go surprisingly well with everything from shorts to a sport coat and odd trousers. I've become a big fan of bits.


Just bought my first pair of bits, Alden's which I got on sale from O'Connels. I'll not wear them with suits but with summer sport coats and blazers.


----------



## bd79cc

Bit Man said:


> I haven't paired them with a suit, and probably won't, but they go surprisingly well with everything from shorts to a sport coat and odd trousers. I've become a big fan of bits.


Me, too. Guccis and Ferragamos over the past year and a half.


----------



## Bit Man

A couple of the outfits that I've put together with bit loafers:



















Casual with o.c.b.d.:










With ascot:










With denim:










What I wore for Easter:










I am a huge, life-long fan of the blue and gray, so I had to put an outfit together with bits:


----------



## bd79cc

^Very nice combinations! I like your sense of color, texture and line. And the bits look as though they were made for these outfits!


----------



## mjo_1

Agreed! I have Alden cape cods in tan and you've given me some good ideas. And more reasons to pick up another pair or two!


----------



## Bit Man

bd79cc said:


> ^Very nice combinations! I like your sense of color, texture and line. And the bits look as though they were made for these outfits!





mjo_1 said:


> Agreed! I have Alden cape cods in tan and you've given me some good ideas. And more reasons to pick up another pair or two!


Thank you for the kind words, gentlemen. I have more outfits planned, and I'll post pictures when I've put them together.


----------



## Dieu et les Dames

Bit Man, glad you joined the forum! All of the pictures you posted are great. I'm going to stop by the Destin CH outlet later today to check out the Ascot II's.



orange fury said:


> I've never really considered bit loafers as something I would own, but I really like those Cole Haans...














fishertw said:


> Just bought my first pair of bits, Alden's which I got on sale from O'Connels. I'll not wear them with suits but with summer sport coats and blazers.


Did you already post pics?


----------



## Ron_A

Some nice posts here recently. Great combinations, Bit Man. For what it's worth, your last one (blue and gray), looks very similar to what I wear on a regular basis.

As an aside, my first pair of bits was the Cole Haan Ascot II. I believe that this model was sold exclusively at Jos. A. Bank. While I think that they are good "entry level" bit loafers, you might want to save up for the Alden Cape Cod or AE Verona. I believe that Dexter makes a shoe that is identical to the Alden Cap Cod bit - you may want to seek it out. I now own two pairs of Alden Cape Cods, two pairs of Veronas, AE Lucca and the aforementioned CH Ascot IIs. I will say that, IMO, AE Veronas or original Gucci bit loafers in black are by far the most versatile option. I wear my black Veronas with everything, including suits.

Edit: The Dexter shoe that I am referring to actually is the Gilford mentioned upthread.


----------



## Bit Man

Dieu et les Dames said:


> Bit Man, glad you joined the forum! All of the pictures you posted are great...


Thank you!



Ron_A said:


> Some nice posts here recently. Great combinations, Bit Man. For what it's worth, your last one (blue and gray), looks very similar to what I wear on a regular basis.
> 
> As an aside, my first pair of bits was the Cole Haan Ascot II. I believe that this model was sold exclusively at Jos. A. Bank. While I think that they are good "entry level" bit loafers, you might want to save up for the Alden Cape Cod or AE Verona. I believe that Dexter makes a shoe that is identical to the Alden Cap Cod bit - you may want to seek it out. I now own two pairs of Alden Cape Cods, two pairs of Veronas, AE Lucca and the aforementioned CH Ascot IIs. I will say that, IMO, AE Veronas or original Gucci bit loafers in black are by far the most versatile option. I wear my black Veronas with everything, including suits.
> 
> Edit: The Dexter shoe that I am referring to actually is the Gilford mentioned upthread.


Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I've got my eye on the Verona, and will probably pick a pair up for my birthday in the next couple of months. I bought a pair of the Dexters, based on the information in this thread, and was seriously considering the Gucci models, but changed my mind after reading, here and other places on the internet, how delicate they are. It's a shame; Gucci has some beautiful bit loafers with lower heels, too.


----------



## Bit Man

Bits I found at Brooks Brothers:




























Not my thing, but they're definitely different.


----------



## Bit Man

Ferragamo:










I love these Gucci bits:










Looking for a pair of chocolate suede like these, but with a lower heel:


----------



## Bit Man

My Dexter 1957 Gilfords:










Sole protectors:


----------



## Bit Man

Dapper, bit wearing mannequins:


----------



## Bit Man

Showing off my bits and Steinhart Ocean 1:










With denim and o.c.b.d.:


----------



## mjo_1

Where did you get your Dexters? The only seller I was aware of was shoeline, who only had super wide widths. I ended up biting the bullet and going with the Aldens. I'd like another pair in darker brown and/or black, and it sure would be nice and worth the savings to find Dexters somewhere.


----------



## kidcharlemange

+1 on the Dexter 1957s. I got a pair of the Seabagos (same exact shoe as the Dexters, as I can tell from the pictures) from the Trad thrift exchange a while back, and have started wearing them on a regular basis. They are excellent bits and they won't be my last pair. Although i wish mine had a full rubber heel instead of the combo - they are a bit slippery on tile.


----------



## Ron_A

mjo_1 said:


> Where did you get your Dexters? The only seller I was aware of was shoeline, who only had super wide widths. I ended up biting the bullet and going with the Aldens. I'd like another pair in darker brown and/or black, and it sure would be nice and worth the savings to find Dexters somewhere.


There are some pairs of Dexters still available over at Shoeline, but not a real big selection of sizes. There appear to be more sizes available in brown than in black - I may pull the trigger on a brown pair. Shoeline is the only place that I have seen these shoes available.


----------



## orange fury

So the more I've read this thread, the more and more I've liked the idea of getting a pair of the Cole Haan Ascot ii's off eBay. I really don't want to spend more to get a nicer pair because I'm not sure how much I'll actually like them. The only problem is that I don't know what color to get between black and dark brown. I like the idea of black (because of how traditional it is for bits and I could see myself wearing them with navy or gray pants or dark jeans), but I wear brown shoes 99% of the time (tassel and penny loafers). Since I'm only buying one pair at this point, which have you guys found to be more versatile?


----------



## Trad-ish

Dark Brown. (Just as seriously).


----------



## LouB

I have a brown pair, purchased from eBay.



orange fury said:


> So the more I've read this thread, the more and more I've liked the idea of getting a pair of the Cole Haan Ascot ii's off eBay. I really don't want to spend more to get a nicer pair because I'm not sure how much I'll actually like them. The only problem is that I don't know what color to get between black and dark brown. I like the idea of black (because of how traditional it is for bits and I could see myself wearing them with navy or gray pants or dark jeans), but I wear brown shoes 99% of the time (tassel and penny loafers). Since I'm only buying one pair at this point, which have you guys found to be more versatile?


----------



## Bit Man

orange fury said:


> So the more I've read this thread, the more and more I've liked the idea of getting a pair of the Cole Haan Ascot ii's off eBay. I really don't want to spend more to get a nicer pair because I'm not sure how much I'll actually like them. The only problem is that I don't know what color to get between black and dark brown. I like the idea of black (because of how traditional it is for bits and I could see myself wearing them with navy or gray pants or dark jeans), but I wear brown shoes 99% of the time (tassel and penny loafers). Since I'm only buying one pair at this point, which have you guys found to be more versatile?


I own all three colors of Ascot II's (black, brown, and British Tan), and have made outfits out of all three colors, and enjoy all three colors equally. My recommendation would be to buy the color of bit that you use most, day-to-day, in other styles that you own, and if you get bitten by the bit bug, you'll eventually get the other colors, anyway.

A new outfit (with an ascot):










I hope everyone's having a great weekend!


----------



## Andrew Ryan

Does anyone have any experience with re-soling the new 1953 collection Gucci loafers, or insight as to whether it may be possible? They're even more thin-soled than the standard 'classic' Tom Ford Gucci loafer model, but I've got 5 (!) pair and really love them, but haven't worn them much lately out of concern for wearing them out. I might go with Topy's if I have to, but really trying to avoid that.

Also: w/r/t the AE Verona II, I have 5 pairs, 3 gold bit (now discontinued) and 2 silver bit, and I have to say: they are great shoes, but they aren't "What the Gucci loafer used to be." They may have the profile and rounded toe right, as well as heel height, but the bits are too small and too matte to be in any way confused with Gucci's. Just my two cents.


----------



## bd79cc

Andrew Ryan said:


> Does anyone have any experience with re-soling the new 1953 collection Gucci loafers, or insight as to whether it may be possible? They're even more thin-soled than the standard 'classic' Tom Ford Gucci loafer model, but I've got 5 (!) pair and really love them, but haven't worn them much lately out of concern for wearing them out. I might go with Topy's if I have to, but really trying to avoid that.
> 
> Also: w/r/t the AE Verona II, I have 5 pairs, 3 gold bit (now discontinued) and 2 silver bit, and I have to say: they are great shoes, but they aren't "What the Gucci loafer used to be." They may have the profile and rounded toe right, as well as heel height, but the bits are too small and too matte to be in any way confused with Gucci's. Just my two cents.


Try Gucci's repair people for your concerns about the 1953 Collection loafers:

https://www.gucci.com/us/faq

Click "care & repair" then "How do I repair an item?"

I agree with you about the AE Verona II. No way to mistake those for a pair of Guccis, either in appearance or build. Not better or worse, just different. I like that they look Italian but fit a bit like a big roomy American shoe.


----------



## Dieu et les Dames

Bit Man inspired me to pick up a couple Ascot II's this past weekend.


----------



## Bit Man

Dieu et les Dames said:


> Bit Man inspired me to pick up a couple Ascot II's this past weekend.
> 
> https://i59.tinypic.com/2624d29.jpg[/][/QUOTE]
> 
> Nice! Wear them in good health.


----------



## Andrew Ryan

bd79cc said:


> Try Gucci's repair people for your concerns about the 1953 Collection loafers:
> 
> https://www.gucci.com/us/faq
> 
> Click "care & repair" then "How do I repair an item?"


I have no idea how I neglected to just check the Gucci website. Thanks so much. I've emailed them inquiring and will let you guys know what they have to say about it, FWIW.


----------



## Bit Man

Cool and different:










I prefer a classic snaffle, but those are beautiful.


----------



## L-feld

Is there still a place to purchase Gucci bits in wide sizes? I feel like I've seen them in the past, but I'm having trouble finding them now that I'm actually considering buying them.


----------



## Topsider

Ron_A said:


> There are some pairs of Dexters still available over at Shoeline, but not a real big selection of sizes. There appear to be more sizes available in brown than in black - I may pull the trigger on a brown pair. Shoeline is the only place that I have seen these shoes available.


The "brown" Dexter Gilford is actually more of a British tan color. If you want a true dark brown, take a look at the Cole-Haan Ascot II.

Also, be advised that the Gilford runs 1/2 size large. I usually wear 10.5W, but had to size down to a 10W in the Gilford.


----------



## Andrew Ryan

L-feld said:


> Is there still a place to purchase Gucci bits in wide sizes? I feel like I've seen them in the past, but I'm having trouble finding them now that I'm actually considering buying them.


Not that I'm aware of. The standard model is a bit wide for a D, though. I believe Gucci will do MTM shoes, but only from the NY store, if I recall correctly.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Old snuff suede made-in-Italy Cole Haans:


----------



## orange fury

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Old snuff suede made-in-Italy Cole Haans:


That shirt


----------



## frosejr

The Dexter 1957 bits have been the subject of several discussions on AAAC, including this thread. I recently came across a black pair in nice shape in 12D. I can attest to their excellent construction and style. Unfortunately for me, I'm a 12C or 12B, so I'm swimming in these things. Watch for a post in the Exchange, I'll be looking to get my cost (about $45) out of them.


----------



## Bit Man

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Old snuff suede made-in-Italy Cole Haans:...


I _love _those! I wish they would start making them again (or Allen Edmonds would bring their own version out). The outfit looks great, too. Gjdm.

More bit pron. Ferragamo bit wearing mannequin at Saks Fifth Avenue:


----------



## Andrew Ryan

vintage (late 80's? no idea) rubber-soled Gucci driving moccasins that I scored off eBay and am currently using as slippers. the mid-sole is soft leather and it flexes well and they're quite comfortable. half size up so I could easily put them on/off.


----------



## Bit Man

An outfit from last Sunday:



















I can't believe it's already Monday.


----------



## L-feld

Wearing my Dexter bits today. For some extra equestrian mojo, i'm wearing a surcingle belt too 




Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


----------



## Doctor Damage

L-feld said:


> Is there still a place to purchase Gucci bits in wide sizes? I feel like I've seen them in the past, but I'm having trouble finding them now that I'm actually considering buying them.





Andrew Ryan said:


> Not that I'm aware of. The standard model is a bit wide for a D, though. I believe Gucci will do MTM shoes, but only from the NY store, if I recall correctly.


You need to try them on. The 015938 model is quite wide and stretches. I used to think I needed an E width but discovered I don't, in fact the standard models in D width are roomy. They still have the 015936 model in EEE width in the NYC Fifth Avenue store (I was there a couple weeks ago) but they don't appear to be as well made as the regular models and don't appear any wider. Remember that in ye olden dayes Gucci loafers fitted narrow.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Bit Man said:


>


These of course are the new 1953 models which have a great fit for people (like me) who have narrow heels. I saw the smooth black calf ones above in the NYC Fifth Avenue store, but oddly they aren't on the website. I have two in black scotchgrain, but the smooth black would be nice too. The reddish colour looks magnificent, although it seems to have been discontinued. The plain brown calf looks great too (not in the photo).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Bit Man said:


> I bought a pair of the Dexters, based on the information in this thread, and was seriously considering the Gucci models, but changed my mind after reading, here and other places on the internet, how delicate they are. It's a shame; Gucci has some beautiful bit loafers with lower heels, too.


The belief that Gucci shoes are delicate and wear out quickly and are shabbily made is one of those bull sh*t stories that gets dreamed up and spread around the internet usually by people who don't actually have direct experience. If you avoid the fashion models and stick with their standard models, they will last. Obviously thin leather soles won't last too long if you take long walks in the rain each week, but then you should have rubber soled shoes for that. In any case, Gucci loafers won't wear out any faster than any other similarly constructed loafers. They still do make the best bit loafers (although the AE Verona's are good too) and the 1953 models are particularly nice.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Andrew Ryan said:


> Does anyone have any experience with re-soling the new 1953 collection Gucci loafers, or insight as to whether it may be possible? They're even more thin-soled than the standard 'classic' Tom Ford Gucci loafer model, but I've got 5 (!) pair and really love them, but haven't worn them much lately out of concern for wearing them out. I might go with Topy's if I have to, but really trying to avoid that.


These are not the sort of shoes one buys and then worries about wearing out. It's going to happen. They're luxury shoes bought because they're sooooo comfortable. I'm surprised that you're willing to spend the money on five pairs but are worried about wear. If you want to be practical with footwear you should buy something else.


> Also: w/r/t the AE Verona II, I have 5 pairs, 3 gold bit (now discontinued) and 2 silver bit, and I have to say: they are great shoes, but they aren't "What the Gucci loafer used to be." They may have the profile and rounded toe right, as well as heel height, but the bits are too small and too matte to be in any way confused with Gucci's. Just my two cents.


When I said the Verona's are what Gucci loafers used to be I was comparing them to a vintage pair of Gucci loafers which I inspected in a local shoe repair shop. They were super lightweight with thin leathers everywhere, yet were extremely solid and tough. It was a stunning thing to see/tough. Although I agree that the Verona's have a different shape and styling, and visually could not be confused with Gucci's, in terms of materials and construction and overall "feel" they are very similar to that old pair of vintage Gucci's.


----------



## Andrew Ryan

Doctor Damage said:


> These are not the sort of shoes one buys and then worries about wearing out. It's going to happen. They're luxury shoes bought because they're sooooo comfortable. I'm surprised that you're willing to spend the money on five pairs but are worried about wear. If you want to be practical with footwear you should buy something else.


I've plenty of more 'practical' loafers, and within the Gucci world I have two pair of the lug-sole models for just that reason. But yes, they are luxury shoes that are extremely comfortable and unrivaled in style (within this aesthetic). I don't worry about my standard model Gucci's because they're readily replaceable - I doubt they're discontinued anytime soon - but the 1953 models purely because I like wearing them so much but would hate to be without a similar styling/model in the future. It already appears Gucci is phasing out many of them, and the plain dark brown 1953 model was never featured on their website - I bought them all through Bergdorf, Neiman's &c. online, where they appear to be dwindling in sizes available.

I've gone back to wearing them in regular rotation, and no, never in hazardous conditions, but do hope they're at least re-solable _if _Gucci discontinues them and/or they don't offer a similar style (lighter than the super-dark standard, gold bit, classic styling) in the future. It's not a matter of money - I'd gladly just replace them if needed - but of concern for the future of my loafer wardrobe...

On that 'other forum', an eminent member once called wearing a Gucci loafer similar to eating an ice cream cone - return to original condition is not possible, only replacement. A $500-$600 ice cream cone is one that luckily I _can _afford to eat, but I'd hate to keep eating them and then find myself in a world devoid of ice cream cones...


----------



## Tilton

Andrew Ryan said:


> I've plenty of more 'practical' loafers, and within the Gucci world I have two pair of the lug-sole models for just that reason. But yes, they are luxury shoes that are extremely comfortable and unrivaled in style (within this aesthetic). I don't worry about my standard model Gucci's because they're readily replaceable - I doubt they're discontinued anytime soon - but the 1953 models purely because I like wearing them so much but would hate to be without a similar styling/model in the future. It already appears Gucci is phasing out many of them, and the plain dark brown 1953 model was never featured on their website - I bought them all through Bergdorf, Neiman's &c. online, where they appear to be dwindling in sizes available.
> 
> I've gone back to wearing them in regular rotation, and no, never in hazardous conditions, but do hope they're at least re-solable _if _Gucci discontinues them and/or they don't offer a similar style (lighter than the super-dark standard, gold bit, classic styling) in the future. It's not a matter of money - I'd gladly just replace them if needed - but of concern for the future of my loafer wardrobe...
> 
> On that 'other forum', an eminent member once called wearing a Gucci loafer similar to eating an ice cream cone - return to original condition is not possible, only replacement. A $500-$600 ice cream cone is one that luckily I _can _afford to eat, but I'd hate to keep eating them and then find myself in a world devoid of ice cream cones...


Topy the soles before they're too worn down and replace the Topy as necessary. That's what I've done on mine and there isn't really a better plan to mitigate wear. Unless, of course, showing the Gucci logo on the sole accounts for more than 5% of the reason you like them, then you're stuck.


----------



## Andrew Ryan

Tilton said:


> Topy the soles before they're too worn down and replace the Topy as necessary. That's what I've done on mine and there isn't really a better plan to mitigate wear. Unless, of course, showing the Gucci logo on the sole accounts for more than 5% of the reason you like them, then you're stuck.


Don't care about the Gucci logo. Topy's just might be their future...


----------



## Andrew Ryan

I spoke with Gucci shoe repair just now, and they informed me that they do offer a re-soling service, starting at $88 depending on evaluation once sent in. They _did _say that it has to be a product they are 'available to re-sole', meaning not a discontinued item - when I inquired regarding the 1953 collection, they said that I should be fine.

Some relief provided.


----------



## shoeman65

Doctor Damage said:


> The belief that Gucci shoes are delicate and wear out quickly and are shabbily made is one of those bull sh*t stories that gets dreamed up and spread around the internet usually by people who don't actually have direct experience.


I believe they don't make their all of their own shoes, I spoke to a UK Italian shoe importer who says he uses a factory that claims to make shoes for Gucci - ergo, the quality would be much the same as you would expect from any other high end maker - obviously the 'spec' you give to the maker matters, but I wouldn't believe the quality to be any higher than many others - just put a Brand on it and it doubles it's value but not necessarily it's quality.

So I disagree with "wear out quickly and are shabbily made is one of those bull sh*t stories" anyone can trash a magnificent shoe in days if mistreated, there is no reason to believe Gucci shoes would last any longer than any other quality shoe - there is nothing materially special about them. And if they are indeed made in outsourced factories there is a very good probability some would be "shabby", especially as in recent years the shoes coming out of Italy appear to be quite erratic in their quality from one batch to the next - i.e. wiggly stitching, variation in stitches per inch, bad cutting. I haven't examined any recent Gucci loafers carefully to see if they fall foul of this same tendency, but if they outsource they almost certainly will.

Doctor Damage - are you connected to Gucci in any way, or just their best fan? I don't think i've ever read you saying a critical word about them!


----------



## Tilton

I think the man just likes his bit loafers. 

Most of the accusations of shoddy construction and premature wearing/failure come from folks used to wearing something like Alden LHS or similar. The thin sole and glove-like leather is not going to wear like double oak and shell but compared to similar shoes, the Gucci is very good. A fair comparison would be to the Verona II from AE, and I seriously doubt the Verona II will hold up any better/longer than Guccis.


----------



## L-feld

Tilton said:


> I think the man just likes his bit loafers.
> 
> Most of the accusations of shoddy construction and premature wearing/failure come from folks used to wearing something like Alden LHS or similar. The thin sole and glove-like leather is not going to wear like double oak and shell but compared to similar shoes, the Gucci is very good. A fair comparison would be to the Verona II from AE, and I seriously doubt the Verona II will hold up any better/longer than Guccis.


Heh, but the Veronas are half the price and can be recrafted...

Maybe I should get those instead, as they are more easily available in wide sizes. I really need to find a store that stocks this stuff so I can try it on. Probably need to go to DC for that. :icon_headagainstwal


----------



## orange fury

You guys are a terrible influence on me lol. Cross post from May Acquisitions, because it's topical:

Went to to an outlet mall tonight, and while there, I decided to drop by the Cole Haan store to check out these bit loafers everyone had been talking about. I just went in to look, but these are the Ascot IIs that came home with me:



wonderfully comfortable shoes, I feel like I'm wearing slippers. And they were 50% off, so I got them for less than I would've off eBay. I ended up going with black, but I get the feeling that the dark brown might be in my somewhat near future...

Like Dieu, this was a Bit Man-inspired purchase. On the upside, when I tried them on, my wife was the one that immediately suggested I buy them, so at least I'm not in trouble with her :biggrin:


----------



## Trad-ish

Is Cole Haan discontinuing the Ascot II? The size selection is really spotty and I'm not seeing it on their website.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Andrew Ryan said:


> I've plenty of more 'practical' loafers, and within the Gucci world I have two pair of the lug-sole models for just that reason. But yes, they are luxury shoes that are extremely comfortable and unrivaled in style (within this aesthetic). I don't worry about my standard model Gucci's because they're readily replaceable - I doubt they're discontinued anytime soon - but the 1953 models purely because I like wearing them so much but would hate to be without a similar styling/model in the future. It already appears Gucci is phasing out many of them, and the plain dark brown 1953 model was never featured on their website - I bought them all through Bergdorf, Neiman's &c. online, where they appear to be dwindling in sizes available.
> 
> I've gone back to wearing them in regular rotation, and no, never in hazardous conditions, but do hope they're at least re-solable _if _Gucci discontinues them and/or they don't offer a similar style (lighter than the super-dark standard, gold bit, classic styling) in the future. It's not a matter of money - I'd gladly just replace them if needed - but of concern for the future of my loafer wardrobe...


I'm actually worried about the 1953 models too since they fit perfectly for my feet. When they came out I immediately picked up two in black scotchgrain, but never got around to the medium brown calf or burgundy calf (and now the latter is discontinued I think). Frankly, I thought the 1953 thing was a one-year-only model but I'm glad to see it's stuck around for a second year and the last is being used on other shoes in their lineup. I should have bought more pairs but I have too many shoes as it is and I'm onto a nylon flight jacket kick right now so my disposable income is going to other things. However, I need to bite the bullet and get a couple more pairs of the 1953 models and stash them away. As you say, it's only a matter of time before they disappear.


shoeman65 said:


> Doctor Damage - are you connected to Gucci in any way, or just their best fan? I don't think i've ever read you saying a critical word about them!


No connection - my positive chatter is partially a reaction to the bad rap they've gotten, unjustly. Remember that a few years back Gucci loafers were poo-pooed on the forums, despite having a long history of style and quality and a role in TNSIL preferences. Sure, their fashion one-season bling bling models are total overpriced junk, but their classic models are solid footwear. They're not MacNeils in shell with Redenbach soles, but still solid.


----------



## Andrew Ryan

The smooth black leather version is available through a couple of retailers online, IIRC, and on the UK Gucci website, FWIW. Also on the UK site is a lovely scotch grain dark brown non-1953 but similar version... I called them about ordering it, but was told that they won't ship UK site items to the US :/

Why they offer so many variations exclusively through various retailers as well as specific regions is beyond me, but one thing is that they do continue to bring out more and more 1953 loafers (unfortunately mostly in fashion-y colors and designs) as well as introducing other variations on the horse bit loafer (most recently, rubber platform soled (ugh) versions and suede fringed versions (double ugh). I'm hoping that this indicates they'll at least be keeping some variations on them alive in the future alongside the standard models...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Andrew Ryan said:


> The smooth black leather version is available through a couple of retailers online, IIRC, and on the UK Gucci website, FWIW. Also on the UK site is a lovely scotch grain dark brown non-1953 but similar version... I called them about ordering it, but was told that they won't ship UK site items to the US :/
> 
> Why they offer so many variations exclusively through various retailers as well as specific regions is beyond me, but one thing is that they do continue to bring out more and more 1953 loafers (unfortunately mostly in fashion-y colors and designs) as well as introducing other variations on the horse bit loafer (most recently, rubber platform soled (ugh) versions and suede fringed versions (double ugh). I'm hoping that this indicates they'll at least be keeping some variations on them alive in the future alongside the standard models...


The last time I checked the smooth calf version wasn't on the website, but I will check again later today. I don't mind those fringed loafers, but I'm annoyed I missed the tassel loafer version they had last year in burgundy. The different models for different markets is annoying for those of us who aren't jetting around the world. At least since all the 1953 models are on the same last you can order them without worry about fit.

Update: The smooth black calf 1953 models are on the Italian website, but not the US or Canadian sites. The Italian site has a wonderful variation in an antiqued dark brown smooth calf, which looks wonderful:
https://www.gucci.com/it/styles/307929BLM002140#

- - - - -

Bruce Jenner in bit loafers

https://postimg.org/image/6iayuzsf5/


----------



## Bit Man

orange fury said:


> You guys are a terrible influence on me lol...And they were 50% off, so I got them for less than I would've off eBay. I ended up going with black, but I get the feeling that the dark brown might be in my somewhat near future...Like Dieu, this was a Bit Man-inspired purchase. On the upside, when I tried them on, my wife was the one that immediately suggested I buy them, so at least I'm not in trouble with her :biggrin:


That's a great deal. Congratulations! Wear them in good health. :biggrin:

New outfit:



















That ^^^^ sport coat was just recently thrifted. I don't think I've posted any outfits with me - just the valet, so here's one from me experimenting with the timer:










While you can't, unfortunately, see the bits, I'm extremely happy with the sport coat (_*Hart Schaffner Marx*_), and that fit ^^^^ is straight off the rack from the thrift shop without any tailoring.

Anyway, I hope everyone has a great Memorial Day!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Trad-ish said:


> Is Cole Haan discontinuing the Ascot II? The size selection is really spotty and I'm not seeing it on their website.


 They've made it an outlet-only model. They sometimes put the outlet stuff online, but only once a month or so. If you head to a brick-and-mortar outlet, you shouldn't have much trouble finding a pair.


----------



## mcarthur




----------



## Andrew Ryan

Question for you guys. I already own a pair of these w/silver bit, with slightly more cream to them than the ones pictured. I currently wear them in the spring/summer with light brown and beige linen blend and pure linen jackets. Do you think these would work in the fall with a lighter brown jacket as well, or should they be regulated to strictly S/S? I ask because I'm strongly considering picking up a second pair.


----------



## Bit Man

Andrew Ryan said:


> Question for you guys. I already own a pair of these w/silver bit, with slightly more cream to them than the ones pictured. I currently wear them in the spring/summer with light brown and beige linen blend and pure linen jackets. Do you think these would work in the fall with a lighter brown jacket as well, or should they be regulated to strictly S/S? I ask because I'm strongly considering picking up a second pair...


I wouldn't hesitate to wear them in the fall. I let the weather dictate the style. Obviously, when it's too cold to wear loafers, I simply wouldn't wear them - not because of a retail schedule, but because it's impractical. Some places (like Houston, for example) allow for almost year-round wear.


----------



## Bit Man

Mannequin sexiness:



















I love the tie as much as the Ferragamos. :tongue2:


----------



## Bit Man

A Gucci Roos outfit from angelbespoke's Tumblr:


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## Andrew Ryan

Just a tip for anyone still looking for them (Doctor Damage, I'm looking at you): the smooth black calf 1953 Gucci loafer is available at Bloomingdales.com right now.


----------



## orange fury

Andrew Ryan said:


> Just a tip for anyone still looking for them (Doctor Damage, I'm looking at you): the smooth black calf 1953 Gucci loafer is available at Bloomingdales.com right now.


Nice! Thanks for the link!

those navy suede Elenor's are pretty incredible looking...


----------



## Dieu et les Dames

orange fury said:


> You guys are a terrible influence on me lol. Cross post from May Acquisitions, because it's topical:
> 
> Went to to an outlet mall tonight, and while there, I decided to drop by the Cole Haan store to check out these bit loafers everyone had been talking about. I just went in to look, but these are the Ascot IIs that came home with me:
> 
> [pic]
> 
> wonderfully comfortable shoes, I feel like I'm wearing slippers. And they were 50% off, so I got them for less than I would've off eBay. I ended up going with black, but I get the feeling that the dark brown might be in my somewhat near future...
> 
> Like Dieu, this was a Bit Man-inspired purchase. On the upside, when I tried them on, my wife was the one that immediately suggested I buy them, so at least I'm not in trouble with her :biggrin:


Great looking shoes at an irresistible price!


----------



## orange fury

Dieu et les Dames said:


> Great looking shoes at an irresistible price!


Absolutely! I'm actually looking at the dark brown pair to replace a pair of Johnston & Murphy tassel loafers that are getting worn out beyond repair.


----------



## L-feld

Pucked up these AE Firenze's yesterday. I prefer the sleeker bit of the Verona, but I wanted some pebbled loafers and really needed a pair of brown shoes with a rubber sole.

Paul Grangaard apparently designed these himself. They are easily the most flexible shoe i've ever owned and are significantly more comfortable than the Dexter bits I posted before.




Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


----------



## Doctor Damage

L-feld said:


> Pucked up these AE Firenze's yesterday. I prefer the sleeker bit of the Verona, but I wanted some pebbled loafers and really needed a pair of brown shoes with a rubber sole.
> 
> Paul Grangaard apparently designed these himself. They are easily the most flexible shoe i've ever owned and are significantly more comfortable than the Dexter bits I posted before.
> 
> 
> [IMG]
> 
> Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit[/QUOTE]
> The Firenze is a beautiful shoe and beautifully made and are ideal for Friday nights in the city going from bar to bar. They look like Ferragamo but in my opinion are a much, much better bang for the buck and arguably just as well made. I had a pair a couple years back but they were a bit too large so I sold them to one of our members. Now you've got me thinking about another pair.


----------



## L-feld

Doctor Damage said:


> The Firenze is a beautiful shoe and beautifully made and are ideal for Friday nights in the city going from bar to bar. They look like Ferragamo but in my opinion are a much, much better bang for the buck and arguably just as well made. I had a pair a couple years back but they were a bit too large so I sold them to one of our members. Now you've got me thinking about another pair.


haha, yeah, I'm already thinkning about another pair, although I may lean towards the Verona, if they are this soft and flexible.

I did go and try on the Gucci bits, and I can see what all the fuss is about. Unfortunately, they were still too narrow for my feet, so they are off the table until Gucci starts making wides again (or if I find some 11 wides on ebay...)


----------



## Doctor Damage

Doctor Damage said:


> The Firenze is a beautiful shoe and beautifully made and are ideal for Friday nights in the city going from bar to bar. They look like Ferragamo but in my opinion are a much, much better bang for the buck and arguably just as well made. I had a pair a couple years back but they were a bit too large so I sold them to one of our members. Now you've got me thinking about another pair.





L-feld said:


> ha ha, yeah, I'm already thinking about another pair, although I may lean towards the Verona, if they are this soft and flexible.


The Verona is even lighter but the thin leather soles won't last nearly as long as the Firenze's.


> I did go and try on the Gucci bits, and I can see what all the fuss is about. Unfortunately, they were still too narrow for my feet, so they are off the table until Gucci starts making wides again (or if I find some 11 wides on ebay...)


I doubt you will ever find any old ones and they won't make wides again. They used to come in EE and EEE widths but they were only available in the NYC store (in north America) and when I was checking e-Bay regularly I almost never saw them. In any case, the EEE width was super-wide.


----------



## L-feld

Doctor Damage said:


> The Verona is even lighter but the thin leather soles won't last nearly as long as the Firenze's.
> 
> I doubt you will ever find any old ones and they won't make wides again. They used to come in EE and EEE widths but they were only available in the NYC store (in north America) and when I was checking e-Bay regularly I almost never saw them. In any case, the EEE width was super-wide.


Well, maybe I will get the Veronas and just topy them.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Bit Man

After church selfie with the Cole Haan Ascot II's:


----------



## Bit Man

A more colorful outfit with the Cole Haan Ascot II's and a new tie:


----------



## Doctor Damage

One of my acquaintances sent me this photo of his Gucci's which are getting worn down:

https://postimg.org/image/ttilhzsm7/


----------



## Andrew Ryan

FWIW, Gucci has just added a dark brown pebble grain 1953 loafer to the US website: https://www.gucci.com/us/styles/307929AOD002140#










I've no idea where these would fit in my wardrobe, considering I've already got 3 pair of the smooth brown calf 1953's, but... I kinda want them anyway. You know. Just because.

Also, sidenote: Doctor Damage: those reddish colored 1953 loafers you have at the top of the last page are still available at the Saks website, where they're called 'burgundy-brown' (although they seem much more just red to me).


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## Bit Man

A new outfit, utilizing blue and gray, with a day cravat:



















And in action:


----------



## Doctor Damage

Andrew Ryan said:


> FWIW, Gucci has just added a dark brown pebble grain 1953 loafer to the US website: https://www.gucci.com/us/styles/307929AOD002140#
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've no idea where these would fit in my wardrobe, considering I've already got 3 pair of the smooth brown calf 1953's, but... I kinda want them anyway. You know. Just because.
> 
> Also, sidenote: Doctor Damage: those reddish colored 1953 loafers you have at the top of the last page are still available at the Saks website, where they're called 'burgundy-brown' (although they seem much more just red to me).


Thanks for the heads up. I need to get a pair of the smooth brown ones, but on the other hand I'm a sucker for scotchgrain. Unfortunately, now that Gucci has so many nice models worth owning, my income is going downhill and I need to tighten up - dammit!


----------



## orange fury

Bit Man said:


> A new outfit, utilizing blue and gray, with a day cravat:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And in action:


its a rare thing to see someone successfully pull off a cravat (or even attempt it, for that matter). Very well done! I've been looking at a navy/white pindot cravat, and this may just tempt me to pull the trigger...


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Not to get off-topic, but yes he's doing the neck cloth well. Probably because it's not patterned and therefore doesn't stand out. With that in mind, you may want to just get a plain one, Orange Fury.


----------



## Bit Man

orange fury said:


> its a rare thing to see someone successfully pull off a cravat (or even attempt it, for that matter). Very well done! I've been looking at a navy/white pindot cravat, and this may just tempt me to pull the trigger...





Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Not to get off-topic, but yes he's doing the neck cloth well. Probably because it's not patterned and therefore doesn't stand out. With that in mind, you may want to just get a plain one, Orange Fury.


Thank you, gentlemen.


----------



## orange fury

Bit Man, yet again, I'm blaming you for another purchase 

I liked my black CH Ascot ii's from back in May so much, I went back and bought the dark brown ones tonight. 50% sale, 10% more because of an email I got from them, and $5 more because they messed up part of the transaction. Good deal if you ask me :biggrin:



i feel like these will get much more wear right now because I'm wearing so much white/khaki/tan/etc, whereas when the gray and navy pants come out for fall and winter, the black ones will get more use.


----------



## Bit Man

orange fury said:


> Bit Man, yet again, I'm blaming you for another purchase
> 
> I liked my black CH Ascot ii's from back in May so much, I went back and bought the dark brown ones tonight. 50% sale, 10% more because of an email I got from them, and $5 more because they messed up part of the transaction. Good deal if you ask me :biggrin:
> 
> i feel like these will get much more wear right now because I'm wearing so much white/khaki/tan/etc, whereas when the gray and navy pants come out for fall and winter, the black ones will get more use.


That's a great deal, and bits at that price let you get several colors to have plenty of options for different outfits. It's nice to have options.


----------



## Fletcher

orange fury said:


> Bit Man, yet again, I'm blaming you for another purchase
> 
> I liked my black CH Ascot ii's from back in May so much, I went back and bought the dark brown ones tonight. 50% sale, 10% more because of an email I got from them, and $5 more because they messed up part of the transaction. Good deal if you ask me :biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> i feel like these will get much more wear right now because I'm wearing so much white/khaki/tan/etc, whereas when the gray and navy pants come out for fall and winter, the black ones will get more use.


These look nice. I looked at what I think were ascott ii's at a ch outlet a couple of years ago and I recall the vamp being shorter. Likewise, a quick Google search pulled up some shoes that appear to have a shorter vamp than these.

Maybe it was the ascot i that I saw.


----------



## Fletcher

I think it may just be the angle or something with the image in the above picture. I looked back in this thread at some may 2014 pictures of ascot iis in this thread and they seemed to have the shorter vamp I recalled.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fletcher said:


> I think it may just be the angle or something with the image in the above picture. I looked back in this thread at some may 2014 pictures of ascot iis in this thread and they seemed to have the shorter vamp I recalled.


That was my first thought, too. They have perhaps changed them. I don't see them on the company's website, incidently.


----------



## Trad-ish

Doctor Damage said:


> That was my first thought, too. They have perhaps changed them. I don't see them on the company's website, incidently.


See my post from 5/24. They've been off the website for a few months now.


----------



## orange fury

Question for those that have Ascot II's: is some rattle from the bits normal when walking? I don't know if my left one has stretched or I just didn't notice it before, but my left shoe has been rattling quite a bit when walking, there seems to be more play than in the right shoe. Sound normal or like something that will affect the integrity of the shoe long term?


----------



## L-feld

orange fury said:


> Question for those that have Ascot II's: is some rattle from the bits normal when walking? I don't know if my left one has stretched or I just didn't notice it before, but my left shoe has been rattling quite a bit when walking, there seems to be more play than in the right shoe. Sound normal or like something that will affect the integrity of the shoe long term?


Perfectly normal for a bit loafer. If someone says something about the sound, just tell them that if they have a problem with your spurs, then you can settle it like gentlemen.

Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Two of my pairs of Bit Loafers

my Black Gucci's

I wore them without socks just for fun. I would never wear them without socks.










and Vintage Cole Haans (made when they were good shoes) made in Italy.










The Gucci's look great and they fit very well. They are mediums, but I wear a narrow. But, they fit perfectly. However, they are surprisingly uncomfortable.

The Cole Haans are usually regarded as running narrow. But, these slip on my heels. Very little structure, but comfortable.


----------



## Andrew Ryan

Can anyone comment on the aesthetics of the Alden Cape Cod bit loafers vs the Gucci 1953 models? They look startlingly similar except perhaps the stitching across the strap, and maybe a smaller bit? As mentioned, I own quite a few pair of the 1953 models but the soles are wearing out fast and Gucci - while able to confirm that they do resole shoes - wasn't able to confirm they would do it on the 1953 models in particular (why, I don't know). I'm considering the Alden's as a backup for when my 1953's eventually die... (re-craftable - right?, gold bits vs silver, available in tan/cognac...)


----------



## Doctor Damage

Andrew Ryan said:


> Can anyone comment on the aesthetics of the Alden Cape Cod bit loafers vs the Gucci 1953 models? They look startlingly similar except perhaps the stitching across the strap, and maybe a smaller bit? As mentioned, I own quite a few pair of the 1953 models but the soles are wearing out fast and Gucci - while able to confirm that they do resole shoes - wasn't able to confirm they would do it on the 1953 models in particular (why, I don't know). I'm considering the Alden's as a backup for when my 1953's eventually die... (re-craftable - right?, gold bits vs silver, available in tan/cognac...)


Alden's shoes are clumsy by comparison. They have their place, but they're not the same league. I know everyone is going to to disagree but I've owned both.


----------



## L-feld

The leather on the Alden Cape Cods in kind of on the stiff side. It's not bad leather, but it's something that is more suited to an oxford than a loafer. The soles are also on the stiff side, which is similarly not well suited to a loafer. 

I ended up getting the AE Veronas, btw. And I'm very pleased with them.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Doctor Damage

L-feld said:


> The leather on the Alden Cape Cods in kind of on the stiff side. It's not bad leather, but it's something that is more suited to an oxford than a loafer. The soles are also on the stiff side, which is similarly not well suited to a loafer.


Agreed, and according to someone I know the heels wear down way too fast. I didn't keep mine long enough to find out.


> I ended up getting the AE Veronas, btw. And I'm very pleased with them.


Great looking shoes.


----------



## Doctor Damage

orange fury said:


> Question for those that have Ascot II's: is some rattle from the bits normal when walking? I don't know if my left one has stretched or I just didn't notice it before, but my left shoe has been rattling quite a bit when walking, there seems to be more play than in the right shoe. Sound normal or like something that will affect the integrity of the shoe long term?


The horsebits have absolutely nothing to do with the construction of the shoe. They're just decorations stuck on. If they fell off you could keep wearing the shoes for years with no effect. If the rattling or jangling bothers you then you can stuff some bits of wool or felt or stuffing into the round cylinders where rings hook into the shafts. This will reduce the noise and won't be noticeable except by someone on their hands and knees with nose pressed against your shoes*. Do NOT attempt to tighten the rings with pliers or something - on AE and Alden Cape Cod bit loafers the rings are metal coated plastic and will snap.

* If that's how you get your kicks then I suggest wearing shoes other than bit loafers!


----------



## orange fury

Doctor Damage said:


> The horsebits have absolutely nothing to do with the construction of the shoe. They're just decorations stuck on. If they fell off you could keep wearing the shoes for years with no effect. If the rattling or jangling bothers you then you can stuff some bits of wool or felt or stuffing into the round cylinders where rings hook into the shafts. This will reduce the noise and won't be noticeable except by someone on their hands and knees with nose pressed against your shoes*. Do NOT attempt to tighten the rings with pliers or something - on AE and Alden Cape Cod bit loafers the rings are metal coated plastic and will snap.
> 
> * If that's how you get your kicks then I suggest wearing shoes other than bit loafers!


Thanks, I'm not going to mess with them, I just happened to notice it when I was at my desk and first wearing them. I don't notice it/it doesn't bother me anymore.


----------



## thetallestmanonearth

Picked these up on ebay. Vintage. I'm worried that it's a pair of ladies shoes. See the heel.










__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


















What's the consensus? Thank you guys in advance.


----------



## Dieu et les Dames

thetallestmanonearth said:


> Picked these up on ebay. Vintage. I'm worried that it's a pair of ladies shoes. See the heel.
> 
> What's the consensus? Thank you guys in advance.


That may have been the style "back in the day," but I don't actually know first hand. If they fit you then enjoy them and the height boost. New heels would be pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things so there's always that option if the height really bugs you. Otherwise nice looking bits, and I like your watch.


----------



## orange fury

Dieu et les Dames said:


> That may have been the style "back in the day," but I don't actually know first hand. If they fit you then enjoy them and the height boost. New heels would be pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things so there's always that option if the height really bugs you. Otherwise nice looking bits, *and I like your watch*.


Hah, I was thinking the same thing. Sub?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

thetallestmanonearth said:


> Picked these up on ebay. Vintage. I'm worried that it's a pair of ladies shoes. See the heel.
> 
> What's the consensus? Thank you guys in advance.


Depends. Guccis, even today, have kinda high heels, _n'est pas?_ That's always been my impression. And they may have been higher back in the day.

What's that sizing on the bottom say?


----------



## thetallestmanonearth

orange fury said:


> Hah, I was thinking the same thing. Sub?


Thank you. Indeed, it's a no date sub.


----------



## thetallestmanonearth

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Depends. Guccis, even today, have kinda high heels, _n'est pas?_ That's always been my impression. And they may have been higher back in the day.
> 
> What's that sizing on the bottom say?


The bottom says 41 G.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

thetallestmanonearth said:


> The bottom says 41 G.


Well, not that I'm 100% sure how European shoe sizing works, but I think that makes them about a men's 8 wide, right? So if they fit like one, then I think they were made as a men's shoe.


----------



## racinglikeapro

My first post at AAAC but the advice on this thread and others has always been helpful.

I recently picked a pair of the AE Verona IIs in brown after returning a pair of Gucci's (non 1953s). The Gucci's fit me poorly and the shape wasn't all that pleasing. The Verona's on the other hand fit beautifully, have a truly classic shape, and are significantly cheaper. 

For someone looking for their first horsebit loafer I recommend the Verona II as your first choice.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> And they may have been higher back in the day.


Heels were much higher on Gucci's in the past, even from the earliest days. Old photos and many shoes I've seen on e-Bay confirm this. The pair in question (posted by thetallestmanonearth) are too chunky and high-vamp to have been women's shoes. Even Gucci's standard horsebit loafers for women were (and remain) much differently proportioned.


----------



## Doctor Damage

racinglikeapro said:


> I recently picked a pair of the AE Verona IIs in brown after returning a pair of Gucci's (non 1953s). The Gucci's fit me poorly and the shape wasn't all that pleasing. The Verona's on the other hand fit beautifully, have a truly classic shape, and are significantly cheaper.
> 
> For someone looking for their first horsebit loafer I recommend the Verona II as your first choice.


Great shoe and I second your recommendation. I have a pair and they're excellent. I've said it before that these are closer to vintage Gucci's in terms of lightness and leather quality than the modern-day Gucci's. I had the benefit of handling a vintage pair in a local shoe repair shop.


----------



## racinglikeapro

Doctor Damage said:


> Great shoe and I second your recommendation. I have a pair and they're excellent. I've said it before that these are closer to vintage Gucci's in terms of lightness and leather quality than the modern-day Gucci's. I had the benefit of handling a vintage pair in a local shoe repair shop.


Great to hear Doc. I'm looking forward to these getting worn way too often and aging beautifully


----------



## L-feld

What is the term for the little strip of leather that goes around the perimeter of the plug and covers the edges of the plug and the apron?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I'm not sure how wearing bit loafers is like making love to a beautiful woman, but I'm sure there's some connection.


----------



## Reuben

Is there any reason beyond cost not to get the JR soles on a pair of Alden bits if I'm sending them off to B.Nelson to be resoled? Would the JR soles be stiffer than is optimal with bit loafers?


----------



## Trad-ish

racinglikeapro said:


> My first post at AAAC but the advice on this thread and others has always been helpful.
> 
> I recently picked a pair of the AE Verona IIs in brown after returning a pair of Gucci's (non 1953s). The Gucci's fit me poorly and the shape wasn't all that pleasing. The Verona's on the other hand fit beautifully, have a truly classic shape, and are significantly cheaper.
> 
> For someone looking for their first horsebit loafer I recommend the Verona II as your first choice.


Did they really fit true to size? There was some discussion earlier in the thread about the Verona and it running almost a full size small. I happened to read it AFTER I had bought a pair off Ebay. Yes, the pair I bought fit nearly a size too small. Which reminds me I need to put them on the exchange. (If anyone needs a size 13 Verona in brown with gold bits, IM me).

Those are beautiful shoes, btw.


----------



## Fletcher

I find that my Verona II's, which are factory 2nds purchased in January of this year, fit very long but true to size in width.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Trad-ish said:


> Did they really fit true to size? There was some discussion earlier in the thread about the Verona and it running almost a full size small. I happened to read it AFTER I had bought a pair off Ebay. Yes, the pair I bought fit nearly a size too small. Which reminds me I need to put them on the exchange. (If anyone needs a size 13 Verona in brown with gold bits, IM me).


My experience with the Verona was it fits 1/2 size small, so my 10.5 feet wear the Verona in size 11. However, my experience with the Verona II is true to size so my 10.5 feet wear size 10.5. During the model switchover I guess AE must have decided to change the tagging so their shoes fit true. The Verona I and II are made on the same last and the same way, but it's just the tagged size that seems to have changed.

Of course, the usual warning applies: your experience will likely vary from mine and it's always smart to try on shoes before buying, etc etc.


----------



## mcarthur




----------



## Doctor Damage

Gemma Arterton


----------



## Mike75

Trad-ish said:


> Did they really fit true to size? There was some discussion earlier in the thread about the Verona and it running almost a full size small. I happened to read it AFTER I had bought a pair off Ebay. Yes, the pair I bought fit nearly a size too small. Which reminds me I need to put them on the exchange. (If anyone needs a size 13 Verona in brown with gold bits, IM me).
> 
> Those are beautiful shoes, btw.


I sized down on the recommendation of the AE online chat rep. I'm normally a 10.5/11 D, but she suggested I try the 10 EEE Verona II. Fit perfectly.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Toronto mayoral candidate John Tory wearing bit loafers while installing signs.


----------



## Bit Man

An outfit pic wearing the Cole Haan Ascot II's:










I don't know if it's clear enough on your monitor, but the socks match the pocket square. 

And one wearing the Dexter 1957 Gilford bits:


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Oak Street Bootmakers:


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## Doctor Damage

^ made by Alden obviously... or more precisely that factory that does the Cape Cod line for Alden

^^ and great outfits, Bit Man!


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## Bit Man

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ made by Alden obviously... or more precisely that factory that does the Cape Cod line for Alden
> 
> ^^ and great outfits, Bit Man!


Thank you. I forgot to add that in the second pic I was wearing the Dexter 1957 Gilford bits.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Mark Thatcher in Gucci loafers. I like those!


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## L-feld

Doctor Damage said:


> Mark Thatcher in Gucci loafers. I like those!


Wow, the old ones really did have a bit of a heel on them.


----------



## Bit Man

L-feld said:


> Wow, the old ones really did have a bit of a heel on them.


Too much, imo. That looks _way_ effeminate - almost photoshopped. Handsome man from the waist up, woman in pantsuit from the waist down.


----------



## Bit Man

I bought a cable knit turtleneck on clearance, and decided to make a bit outfit with it:



















I love the richness of the colors. I wish I could find a nice, dark chocolate herringbone sport coat in 44R.


----------



## hoorayhenry

A friend has started up a new brand doing Made in Italy bit loafers. Might be of interest.

https://www.present-london.com/horatio/


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## Andrew Ryan

I'm currently in talks with Rancourt & Co (who I have many pairs of loafers from and love) about making me a custom pair of bit loafers in mimosa calfskin (tan with silver bit to start, then dark brown next F/W season if they work out), except with the more traditional Gucci-style inner curved strap and larger more circular style bit than what they normally make. I'm hoping to replace all of my Gucci's with custom versions by them, in an effort to have higher quality bit loafers than will last much longer than all of my Gucci's have. I'll update you guys with photos once they're made if all goes through...


----------



## Bit Man

Linen/wool sportcoat from JoS. A. Bank, PRL ocbd and chinos, and Cole Haan Ascot II's:


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## Bit Man

Allen Edmonds Lucca bit loafers


----------



## L-feld

Since it's getting warmer out, what is the consensus on white bit loafers? Are they too trashy? Too geriatric South Florida?


----------



## Trad-ish

Maybe Cousin Eddie will get you a pair just like he bought Clark.


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## L-feld

Trad-ish said:


> Maybe Cousin Eddie will get you a pair just like he bought Clark.


Only if he gets me a matching belt.


----------



## Puig

I've been contemplating picking up a pair of Alden Cape Cod bit loafters, and read some of the sizing discussions in older threads, can anyone comment who has both the LHS and Cape Cod as to any sizing differences. I am a 9.5D in the Van last, have BB unlined LHS, and Suede Flex Welt LHS, both same size, would I be a 9.5D in the Cape Cod, what last are they built on? Thanks


----------



## L-feld

Puig said:


> I've been contemplating picking up a pair of Alden Cape Cod bit loafters, and read some of the sizing discussions in older threads, can anyone comment who has both the LHS and Cape Cod as to any sizing differences. I am a 9.5D in the Van last, have BB unlined LHS, and Suede Flex Welt LHS, both same size, would I be a 9.5D in the Cape Cod, what last are they built on? Thanks


The cape cod are not built on any of Alden's lasts. They are manufactured by the H. H. Brown shoe company, using their lasts.

I would not recommend the Alden bit loafer, personally. The upper and sole are thicker and stiffer than suits a loafer and I have found them relatively uncomfortable. If you want a solid bit loafer in the $300ish range, I would go for the AE Verona. The leather and construction are much nice and more flexible.

I have the Alden Cape Cod in 11eee and a (mainline) LHS in 11e, the LHS is definitely larger. If you absolutely must buy the Alden, I would recommend you buy your usual size.


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## Puig

Thanks L-Feld, I've heard the same from a few folks about the Verona, will check them out as well. Unfortunately I've got a decent sized credit at Sherman Bros., due to a shipping snafu with another pair of shoes, so I was perusing what they carry. So you're saying the Cape Cod's are a little smaller than your LHS, but not so much as to size up? Loafers are hard on me, 10 is often too large, but my Gucci bits are too tight at 9.5, same with Weejuns. Alden 9.5D fits perfectly in the Van last, hence the fondness for Alden.


----------



## L-feld

Puig said:


> Thanks L-Feld, I've heard the same from a few folks about the Verona, will check them out as well. Unfortunately I've got a decent sized credit at Sherman Bros., due to a shipping snafu with another pair of shoes, so I was perusing what they carry. So you're saying the Cape Cod's are a little smaller than your LHS, but not so much as to size up? Loafers are hard on me, 10 is often too large, but my Gucci bits are too tight at 9.5, same with Weejuns. Alden 9.5D fits perfectly in the Van last, hence the fondness for Alden.


Well, the cape cods definitely run more true to size than anything on the van last. For what it's worth, I'm also comparing a eee width cape cod to an e width LHS. I find them somewhat comparable in width, but the LHS is clearly longer and has a lower instep. Both have relatively wide heels.

My biggest complaint about the cape cods is the materials used. They use a stiff and heavily lined leather and a thick leather sole. It's not that it's bad quality, it's just more appropriate for a goodyear welted lace up shoe where flexibility is less necessary.

I'm not really a big fan of either shoe, at the end of the day. That said, I found the LHS to be more flexible than the cape cods, which I think is really saying something.

I too have serious fit issues with loafers, so I feel your pain.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Agreed the Cape Cods are 1:1 fitting shoes, mercifully. They will also stretch out with use, being proper moccasin designs, so do not size up.


----------



## Andrew Ryan

I haven't talked to a Gucci rep, but all of the Tom Ford era 'modern classic' models (both leather and suede, lug sole and regular) are gone from their website. I'm wondering if they're phasing them out...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Andrew Ryan said:


> I haven't talked to a Gucci rep, but all of the Tom Ford era 'modern classic' models (both leather and suede, lug sole and regular) are gone from their website. I'm wondering if they're phasing them out...


Geez you're right... that's probably not a bad thing since the heavy toe box and high heels were not comfortable for everyone. I guess the 1953 models have been popular, which is fine with me since that last fits me 100%. I'm pleased to see the ribbon versions are now available in brown too, and with a gold horsebit. I have to spend some money, I guess.


----------



## L-feld

Two part question:

(1) Where is the best place to buy Ferragamos? I've found that the best fit for my foot is Ferragamo 11ee, but these are somewhat hard to come by. It looks like the Ferragamo website doesn't list wide sizes. I really want these: https://www.ferragamo.com/shop/en/usa/men/shoes-1/slip-ons-1/-617506--1#pId=6148914691233644481

(2) Anyone have experience with Massimo Matteo shoes? If I have to end up futzing around with standard widths and tongue pads or shoe stretchers, I would rather do that with $150 shoes rather than $600. These look really attractive: https://www.zappos.com/massimo-matteo-hand-sewn-moccasin-with-bit-tan


----------



## top secret

L-feld,

I don't have experience with Massimo Matteo, however, according to Dappered, "This Massimo Matteo brand sure seems to be the Zappos version of DSW's Mercanti Fiorentini. Perhaps the same manufacturer (Made in Italy, glued soles, nice leather and designs) and just branded slightly differently for the sellers?" https://dappered.com/2015/01/the-best-mens-dress-shoes-under-200-of-2015/

Looks like the Mercanti Fiorentini line has a few bit loafer options. And, if there's a DSW near you, could provide insight into Massimo's sizing.

Mercanti Fiorentini: https://www.dsw.com/shoe-brands/men/Mercanti-Fiorentini/_/N-1z13yngZ1z13z6aZ1z13yrr


----------



## L-feld

top secret said:


> L-feld,
> 
> I don't have experience with Massimo Matteo, however, according to Dappered, "This Massimo Matteo brand sure seems to be the Zappos version of DSW's Mercanti Fiorentini. Perhaps the same manufacturer (Made in Italy, glued soles, nice leather and designs) and just branded slightly differently for the sellers?" https://dappered.com/2015/01/the-best-mens-dress-shoes-under-200-of-2015/
> 
> Looks like the Mercanti Fiorentini line has a few bit loafer options. And, if there's a DSW near you, could provide insight into Massimo's sizing.
> 
> Mercanti Fiorentini: https://www.dsw.com/shoe-brands/men/Mercanti-Fiorentini/_/N-1z13yngZ1z13z6aZ1z13yrr


Thanks for the tip. I will swing by DSW and see if they have them in stock. It looks like they have a similar shoe, except with a really unfortunate ornament. A "turd in the punchbowl" if you will. What is that thing?!










https://www.dsw.com/shoe/mercanti+fiorentini+bamboo+loafer?prodId=338007&productRef=SEARCH


----------



## L-feld

Hey Top Secret, thanks again for the heads up about the mercanti fiorentini shoes. I swung by DSW to check them out. They had the normal black bit loafers in stock, of which I don't need any more pairs, but they look nearly identical to the tan ones that Zappos sells, except for a slightly different bit. 

They seem nice enough. I definitely had to size up to a 12 in order to get my foot into it and even then they were still slightly narrow, but the leather seemed really pliable and I think they would be really comfortable after breaking in. The leather isn't as nice as my Ferragamos or AE Veronas, but it's a lot softer than the Alden Cape Cods I'm looking to replace. 

The construction is also a lot softer than the Aldens, which I like. Similar to the Ferragamos and AE's, but not quite as sturdy feeling. Also, fwiw, they are definitely bologna stitched, not glued. I think they would wind up very comfortable, even if they don't feel like they would last as long as the AE's or Ferragamos.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I have seen the DSW version of that shoe. Still doesn't beat the Cole Haan Ascots.


----------



## L-feld

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I have seen the DSW version of that shoe. Still doesn't beat the Cole Haan Ascots.


Unfortunately, i think the vamp on the Ascot is too low for me. Otherwise, they would be a good option, since they come in wide sizes.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

L-feld said:


> Unfortunately, i think the vamp on the Ascot is too low for me. Otherwise, they would be a good option, since they come in wide sizes.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


The Ascot's vamp is pretty close to that one - less than a quarter inch, I reckon. The older, Italian-made CH bits have very low vamps, though.


----------



## L-feld

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> The Ascot's vamp is pretty close to that one - less than a quarter inch, I reckon. The older, Italian-made CH bits have very low vamps, though.


Oh really? That might be worth trying then. Do you know what stores tend to stock them?


----------



## L-feld

The Massimo Matteo's came in the mail today. For $150, I'm really happy with them. The leather looks nice, shines up well without looking plasticky, and it's very pliable, which I like in a loafer. The leather actually seems a bit nicer than what DSW had. I will still need a tongue pad, but otherwise the size 12's fit very comfortably, and the heel is nice and narrow.

One thing I really like about these is that they are lined with a thin nubuck, and the arch support is covered with the same thin nubuck. For me, this is more comfortable than the top grain liner that AE and Ferragamo use. It's sort of a nice middle ground between a lined and unlined shoe.

Overall, I'm pretty happy for the money. Once again, not as solid feeling as the AE's or Ferragamos, but they are still comfortable, attractive, and certainly don't feel cheap. I may go ahead and order the brown suede ones too.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Trad-ish

L-feld, those look good! I just wish they had them in a dark brown or burgundy leather.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

L-feld said:


> Oh really? That might be worth trying then. Do you know what stores tend to stock them?


Check the Cole Haan outlets - the model is "Ascot II." The main line tends to mess with success. List is $200, but reasonably cautious sale shopping (and buying shoe care stuff to get over the dollar amount for a coupon) got me down to something under $120, which was just about right for what I got.


----------



## L-feld

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Check the Cole Haan outlets - the model is "Ascot II." The main line tends to mess with success. List is $200, but reasonably cautious sale shopping (and buying shoe care stuff to get over the dollar amount for a coupon) got me down to something under $120, which was just about right for what I got.


Figures, the closest ones are down in DC suburbs. Maybe I will swing by next time I take a J. Press field trip.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Doctor Damage

Here's an article in the Telegraph on "Sixty Years of the Gucci Loafer":
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fashion-and-style/10421130/Sixty-years-of-the-Gucci-loafer.html


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## Doctor Damage

AE Verona I versus Gucci 015938 (from Styleforum).


----------



## Doctor Damage

1953 loafer porn (click for larger)... these fit superbly well lots of room in the toe box but not a square toe and the heels are relatively narrow and grip well, nice asymmetrical last, also the low heels are comfy

https://postimg.org/image/omvxww377/https://postimg.org/image/5xprud5rb/https://postimg.org/image/a3ymgmlg7/


----------



## SG_67

Doctor Damage said:


> 1953 loafer porn (click for larger), these fit superbly well lots of room in the toe box but not a square toe and the heels are relatively narrow and grip well, low heels are comfy too
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/omvxww377/https://postimg.org/image/5xprud5rb/https://postimg.org/image/a3ymgmlg7/


For me, it's the only Gucci product I would consider purchasing. It's such a classic.


----------



## Doctor Damage

USAF installation excellence team arrived at an airbase. Note brown suede lug sole Gucci's and N3B parka on the man at right.

https://postimg.org/image/lzss8q1dl/


----------



## Doctor Damage

Ferragamo apparently still makes their old-style bit loafers with the lug sole. These have better proportions than Gucci's equivalents since the lug soles on these are lower.

https://postimg.org/image/9r827ylfd/https://postimg.org/image/fdq1carzh/

I was in Toronto yesterday and noticed these, which I might try on next time.

https://postimg.org/image/7lt8vyncb/


----------



## fiftyforfifty

Doctor Damage said:


> 1953 loafer porn (click for larger)... these fit superbly well lots of room in the toe box but not a square toe and the heels are relatively narrow and grip well, nice asymmetrical last, also the low heels are comfy
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/omvxww377/https://postimg.org/image/5xprud5rb/https://postimg.org/image/a3ymgmlg7/


Simply superb


----------



## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> USAF installation excellence team arrived at an airbase. Note brown suede lug sole Gucci's and N3B parka on the man at right.
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/lzss8q1dl/


"Installation excellence team"? Is that what they are calling the IG (Inspector General) teams these days?


----------



## Doctor Damage

eagle2250 said:


> "Installation excellence team"? Is that what they are calling the IG (Inspector General) teams these days?


Probably. Like every large organization, the USAF has a lot of people wearing stars and eagles to think up stuff like "installation excellence team", ha ha


----------



## Doctor Damage

For those of you who might want a Gucci car, check out the early 70s AMC Hornet with interior by Gucci:

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/cur...sportabout-the-first-fashion-designer-mobile/


----------



## FLMike

Doctor Damage said:


> 1953 loafer porn (click for larger)... these fit superbly well lots of room in the toe box but not a square toe and the heels are relatively narrow and grip well, nice asymmetrical last, also the low heels are comfy
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/omvxww377/https://postimg.org/image/5xprud5rb/https://postimg.org/image/a3ymgmlg7/


Ah, yes. The classic.....


----------



## FLMike

On my feet today....classic Gucci


----------



## irish95

Come on man, why the socks? I am so disappointed in you. There will be a hearing tomorrow at 3:00 to determine if you are still allowed in the club. If you plan on bringing an attorney, he must wear shorts.


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## FLMike

irish95 said:


> Come on man, why the socks? I am so disappointed in you. There will be a hearing tomorrow at 3:00 to determine if you are still allowed in the club. If you plan on bringing an attorney, he must wear shorts.


Why shorts? Are we meeting on the golf course?

You're right, though, I'm really slipping. Gucci with socks....two days straight....


----------



## irish95

Golf course? That is downright cruel. It's minus 2 windchill as I type.


----------



## CSG

Why socks? Because grown men look silly without them, especially wearing street shoes.


----------



## FLMike

^The term "broken record" comes to mind....


----------



## Doctor Damage

CSG said:


> Why socks? Because grown men look silly without them, especially wearing street shoes.


I agree!


----------



## Sam H

I just had this interesting thought about bit loafers as and associated outfits as an evening wear analogue.

Let's start with black tie. Black tie is traditionally a casual alternative to the evening wear of white tie. Black tie uses dark, monochrome colors and understated elegance to achieve an urbane, polished look. Black or very dark blue accented with silk. However, in it's original time, it was more casual by way of removing the tails from the jacket.

Nowadays, casual evening wear alternatives to black tie appear due to the perceived formality of black tie. The tuxedo is no longer the casual option. For most people, it is the most formal option, especially in the United States where the concept of white tie these days is very far removed. Let's think about what the most casual, tailored alternative for urbane evening wear is: It would have to be a dark blazer with gray trousers. A navy blazer with gray trousers is to the dark suit what the tuxedo is to the tailcoat decades ago.

If one is just going to hangout with friends, they might throw on an odd jacket but in many instances, a full suit would look too affected. No doubt, similar logic was applied in the heyday of the tuxedo.

Now, what is the one major pain point for the navy blazer that gets rehashed constantly on these (and other) forums? Whether or not that blazer should have metal, preferably gilt, buttons. It seems a similar complaint about the bit loafer also will inevitably arise. The classic bit loafer seems to have been black with a gold-toned bit. This seems to complement a blazer perfectly, especially one with gold-toned metal buttons. Furthermore, as a loafer and classically with a moc-toe, it embodies casual, social dressing up as opposed to dressing up for business.

But this coherence internal to the outfit I'm describing isn't the only level of coherence. Another level of coherence is how this outfit is very analogous to the tuxedo. The entire tuxedo rig uses silk accents for understated flashiness including, traditionally, opera pumps with a silk bow. The opera pump is another black, slip on, evening shoe and it also includes a purely ornamental vamp decoration that is reviled by many yet is an echo of the jacket detailing. While the tuxedo is more understated in it's flashiness, the blazer and bit loafer use metal to add flash making the entire outfit more casual but also staying in line with the general increase in casualness most people exhibit nowadays.

It seems like these analogues are too relevant to ignore and makes the bit loafer a very suitable candidate for social evening use with a blazer driven outfit. Obviously, many here already see it that way but I feel like this is still an interesting perspective on the coherence it has both aesthetically and analogously.

I decided to order a pair of bit loafers while thinking about this stuff, never had any before


----------



## FLMike

^Navy blazer with black Gucci bits has been a staple of mine for the past 15 years. I'll admit to not always matching my metals.


----------



## CSG

Sam H, very nice comments. I often wore Bally gold bit, moc toe loafers with a metal button blazer and gray slacks back in the day. Now, the Ballys are too small for my older feet and I've thought of finding a pair, probably the classic Guccis to replace them as Bally no longer makes that style.


----------



## Oldsport

@ Sam H - I'm also contemplating a Black pair myself, again. I keep getting close but can never pull the trigger. I actually do not own a Black pair of casual shoes for evening casual wear. The reason I hedge is that I live in South New Jersey, so, just don't want to 'look like that', if anybody knows what I mean. 

However, every time I see FLCracka's in a photo, I get the urge for a pair again...


----------



## Sam H

@Triathlete I know what you mean. I'm from Philly and in NYC. Before I got into this stuff I don't think I'd have gone for bit loafers and black loafers would not be my first choice until I had already built up a shoe collection, but now I realize that the only casual black shoe I own is a nice chelsea boot which doesn't cover warm weather. Monkstraps would be a good alternative but I suddenly got really into the idea of a bit loafer and flip flopped to it. Probably I will get a pair of double monks at some point also to have a non-moc toe alternative  I'm going on a company trip to somewhere warm in a few days which is why I bought them now in the middle of a snow storm.

Anyway, I can't justify buying the Gucci's for the 600+ price tag new so I decided to try out this Jay Butler brand. The guy who started the brand is actually an "iGent" or whatever you call it on SF and maybe here as well? He runs the fine young gentleman blog. Anyway, I like the shoe, I bought it in the size I wear Sperry's in. The shoes are blake stitched and full grain leather with leather soles that are very casual (no heavy heel which I was glad about). The vamp is a bit short which I was aware of from reviews I read. It makes look either sleeker and more formal or more prissy depending on your viewpoint. I personally don't mind it.

I was a bit concerned about the shoes being made in Mexico because a few years ago I tried to limit my purchases from countries that are notorious for sweatshop labor but he has photos of him visiting the factory on his site and since it's such a small operation with him visiting the factory, I think it's safe to assume this isn't like some international conglomerate locking people inside with armed guards like I've heard the Levi's factories in Mexico are like (or at least were at the pinnacle of the sweatshop exposure ordeal 20 years ago).

Anyway, the look is very casual yet sleek. The leather is soft and nice without much of a shine from the factory or worse that polyurethane dipped look some shoes have. I prefer to start with full grain leather and a matte finish and shine as desired so this was good in my opinion. The bits are a very shiny yellow metal, more-so in real life then photos.

Also the toe is not square but more almond which I also like. That may be less traditional though from what I understand.

Oh and finally, the funniest part about this is I've actually avoided owning a real normal navy blazer so I'm finally having one made and I'm getting brown MOP buttons instead of metal so I'm defeating my own point somewhat  The brown MOP I found, however, is gold when hit by the light which is why I went with it. It's almost like an iridescent, yet more subdued alternative to gold buttons. I'm excited to see how it turns out, I haven't found any pictures of something similar.

https://jaybutler.com/collections/m...cts/mens-bit-loafer-leather?variant=860214077

Pics of me:


http://imgur.com/4dxRJvN

 seated, cross legged


http://imgur.com/tyq5yho

 standing, non-skin-tight-clam-digger pants should have a healthy enough break that it doesn't look like you are wearing super effeminate shoes when standing if the shorter vamp makes you a bit nervous


----------



## Oldsport

Is this a horrible alternative? I REALLY don't want to spend much on Bits...

https://www.dsw.com/shoe/cole+haan+fairmont+loafer?prodId=319165


----------



## FLMike

I personally wouldn't wear that Cole Haan. As alternatives go, I like the AE Verona. It's available on Shoebank for $279.


----------



## L-feld

Triathlete said:


> Is this a horrible alternative? I REALLY don't want to spend much on Bits...
> 
> https://www.dsw.com/shoe/cole+haan+fairmont+loafer?prodId=319165


Avoid Cole Haan.

If you want to go on the cheap, these are a very good value for $159. They have the right construction (Bologna), the right details (concave strap under the bit, plug folds over the apron along the stitching, etc.), the leather is very soft. I have a pair in tan and while they don't compare to my AE's or Ferragamos, they are totally decent and very comfortable.

https://www.zappos.com/massimo-matteo-hand-sewn-moccasin-with-bit-brown-suede

DSW also has these, apparently made by the same vendor, in pebble grain leather.

https://www.dsw.com/shoe/mercanti+fiorentini+bombe+bit+loafer?prodId=346732

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FLMike

L-feld said:


> Avoid Cole Haan.
> 
> If you want to go on the cheap, these are a very good value for $159. They have the right construction (Bologna), the right details (concave strap under the bit, plug folds over the apron along the stitching, etc.), the leather is very soft. I have a pair in tan and while they don't compare to my AE's or Ferragamos, they are totally decent and very comfortable.
> 
> https://www.zappos.com/massimo-matteo-hand-sewn-moccasin-with-bit-brown-suede


Those actually look decent, especially the black ones.......waaaayy better than the Cole Haans posted. By the way, I like your review!


----------



## Oldsport

Thanks FLCracka and L-feld. I was actually going to pick up a pair of the DSW MF versions (decided not to go so cheap). They are just a better shoe. However, on FLCracka's recommendation, I went to the AE Shoebank site to check on the Veronas. In doing so, I saw that there was a pair of AE Shelton Saddles available, a shoe I've been searching for for some time. As a result of buying them, I am going to have to wait on the Bit Loafers. 



FLCracka said:


> Those actually look decent, especially the black ones.......waaaayy better than the Cole Haans posted. By the way, I like your review!


----------



## Oldsport

Darn, just looked at the Massimo. May have to get the Brown Suede....


----------



## crispyfresh

Doctor Damage said:


> Cole Haan bit loafers - wish they still made these.
> The photos are from some guy's blog but I can't remember the link.


Thats from blogger " acutestyle". I immediately recognized his the pictures.


----------



## crispyfresh

Andrew Ryan said:


> I'm currently in talks with Rancourt & Co (who I have many pairs of loafers from and love) about making me a custom pair of bit loafers in mimosa calfskin (tan with silver bit to start, then dark brown next F/W season if they work out), except with the more traditional Gucci-style inner curved strap and larger more circular style bit than what they normally make. I'm hoping to replace all of my Gucci's with custom versions by them, in an effort to have higher quality bit loafers than will last much longer than all of my Gucci's have. I'll update you guys with photos once they're made if all goes through...


I cant wait to see your shoes. Ive got a Rancourt Bit loafer and LOVE it. Its a waaay better buy than Gucci. Im gonna stock up on them.


----------



## FLMike

crispyfresh said:


> I cant wait to see your shoes. Ive got a Rancourt Bit loafer and LOVE it. Its a waaay better buy than Gucci. Im gonna stock up on them.


I'm sure he has them by now. You are responding to a post that was made a year ago.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Sam H said:


> Pics of me:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/4dxRJvN
> 
> seated, cross legged
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/tyq5yho
> 
> standing, non-skin-tight-clam-digger pants should have a healthy enough break that it doesn't look like you are wearing super effeminate shoes when standing if the shorter vamp makes you a bit nervous


Those Jay Butler bit loafers look a lot better than I expected, very nice in fact. Don't worry about low-vamps, they were all the rage in the 1980s, and with the rights pants/socks combo look great (basically what you're doing!).


----------



## Doctor Damage

(click for larger image)

https://postimg.org/image/bedv04wrj/


----------



## Doctor Damage

Terry Wogan, rip.


----------



## crispyfresh

Doctor Damage said:


> AE Verona I versus Gucci 015938 (from Styleforum).


Almost identical shoe. I bet the Allen Edmond is a better buy for the value.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Do we like these?










I thought they were at least worth taking a picture of.


----------



## crispyfresh

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Do we like these?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they were at least worth taking a picture of.


What are are those?


----------



## FLMike

crispyfresh said:


> What are those?


Ha. Well said.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

crispyfresh said:


> What are are those?


I don't know how to embed a Vine.

BB Outlet, though. Not online.


----------



## FLMike

It looks like a bit loafer mated with a Weejun.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

FLCracka said:


> It looks like a bit loafer mated with a Weejun.


I'd say that's exactly what it is - though more Weejun than bit loafer.


----------



## Doctor Damage

the SNL creator in bit loafers

https://postimg.org/image/t7c5i87tl/https://postimg.org/image/lq13rb2kp/


----------



## FLMike

Gucci on the feet today....


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ very nice, the modern classic model! the pants/socks combo is nicely understated

- - - - -


----------



## FLMike

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ very nice, the modern classic model! the pants/socks combo is nicely understated
> 
> - - - - -


Thanks, Doc. ^I'm digging this, too.....sporting the lug-soled version of what I'm wearing, but a whole lot sexier!


----------



## eagle2250

^^Indeed, gentlemen....
my eyes have always been drawn to a nice pair of 'snaffle-bit' loafers...and would you look at the high rise on those "mom-jeans!'


----------



## Doctor Damage

The modern day rubber lug sole Gucci's look good on women (as the photo demonstrates) but on men they look like army boots. I had a pair for a couple hours and sent them back. I suggest men stick with the leather soles...


----------



## FLMike

Doctor Damage said:


> The modern day rubber lug sole Gucci's look good on women (as the photo demonstrates) but on men they look like army boots. I had a pair for a couple hours and sent them back. I suggest men stick with the leather soles...


Agree 100%


----------



## Doctor Damage

Johnny and Ed in Gucci loafers.


----------



## eagle2250

I like the Snaffle-Bits, but I'd replace those pink socks with a light or medium grey sock. Pink on pink is just too much of a good thing.


----------



## Ron_A

I love bit loafers as much as the next guy (I own seven pairs), but I am not, personally, a big fan of the look on the Eurotrash-looking guys in posts #810, 819 and 821.


----------



## Doctor Damage

#821 is Sir Nicholas Soames and that particular outfit is wildly out of character for him!


----------



## Oldsport

This makes me want to take my Bits I've only worn two times so far to the Goodwill ... Ewwwwww


----------



## eagle2250

^^
You are spot-on with your gut reaction...the subject does exude a bit of a smarmy quality, one not many would wish to emulate. What a waste of a perfectly good example of arm candy! LOL.


----------



## CSG

That guy is a billionaire a few times over.


----------



## FLMike

CSG said:


> That guy is a billionaire a few times over.


As a wise man once said, you can't buy good taste.


----------



## CSG

I don't know, have you seen his Lambo? Keep in mind, one "wise man's" good taste is another's trash. Lots of judgemental people here.


----------



## Carrsville

I am looking for a cheaper alternative to AE and others. What are everyone's thoughts on these, Sandro Malibu, https://m.dsw.com/shop/product/326270


----------



## Oldsport

I almost bought those but in the end I found the pebble grain a little cheap looking. What size are you? I bought the pair in the link below, wore two times and do not want. I will cut you a good deal. I had low proile Vibram soles installed (like Topys). Size 10D:

https://www.dsw.com/shoe/mercanti+fiorentini+bit+loafer?prodId=290374



Carrsville said:


> I am looking for a cheaper alternative to AE and others. What are everyone's thoughts on these, Sandro Malibu, https://m.dsw.com/shop/product/326270


----------



## Carrsville

Thanks for the input, I am a 11.5 - 12 depending on the shoe. Thanks for the offer though. The Sandro's fit similar to AE Verona's they definitely have an "Italian" feel to them.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Carrsville said:


> I am looking for a cheaper alternative to AE and others. What are everyone's thoughts on these, Sandro Malibu, https://m.dsw.com/shop/product/326270


Those look like a dead copy of the AE model, with a slightly modified horsebit. I wonder if AE does re-branded shoes sometimes, like how BB sells AE under their own name? That's quite common among the upmarket UK brands and for instance Cheaney shoes can be had re-branded from a variety of different retailers, not just direct from Cheaney.


----------



## Doctor Damage

CSG said:


> That guy is a billionaire a few times over.


Her father is That Guy from Formula 1...


eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> You are spot-on with your gut reaction...the subject does exude a bit of a smarmy quality, one not many would wish to emulate. What a waste of a perfectly good example of arm candy! LOL.


I agree about the arm candy, if you like bottle blondes with legs a mile long.

I've got a few pics of them to post in the Albert Slipper thread.


----------



## orange fury

I've been looking at getting some new bit loafers for a while now, ever since my Cole Haan Ascots gave out. I was originally looking at the AE Verona II in black, but wasn't a fan of the silver bit (and didn't really want to spend $350). Any thoughts on the Jay Butler Millbank? JB is apparently made in Mexico, but it's also run buy the guy that does the AFYG blog. Link:
https://jaybutler.com/products/mens-bit-loafer-leather?variant=860214069

FWIW, I'm interested in the black ones, but possibly the navy suede down the road


----------



## Doctor Damage

Joan Collins and her husband.


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> I've been looking at getting some new bit loafers for a while now, ever since my Cole Haan Ascots gave out. I was originally looking at the AE Verona II in black, but wasn't a fan of the silver bit (and didn't really want to spend $350). Any thoughts on the Jay Butler Millbank? JB is apparently made in Mexico, but it's also run buy the guy that does the AFYG blog. Link:
> https://jaybutler.com/products/mens-bit-loafer-leather?variant=860214069
> 
> FWIW, I'm interested in the black ones, but possibly the navy suede down the road


I've never heard of that brand, but I can tell you that I personally don't care for the style of those shoes. I especially don't like the short vamp, nor do I like the style of the bits themselves. If I were you, I would just save up for some real-deal Guccis or, secondarily, some AE Veronas.


----------



## Carrsville

Can one get away with wearing brown bit loafers with a gold bit and matching brown belt with a engine turned silver buckle? My gut says not to mix the different colored hardware of the bit and buckle. Thoughts?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Carrsville said:


> Can one get away with wearing brown bit loafers with a gold bit and matching brown belt with a engine turned silver buckle? My gut says not to mix the different colored hardware of the bit and buckle. Thoughts?


Don't have thoughts about it. No one but you will notice.

When I was fresher on this forum I would worry about stuff like that, or getting things the perfect length, or keeping my shoes perfectly clean. But now with greater age and wisdom (ha!) I realize what's a thousand times more important is having some style and uniqueness and masculinity. Leave the matching stuff to women, and leave the pursuit of some perfect standard to the style bloggers and window dressers.


----------



## CSG

True traditionalists don't care about the sort of minutiae. The best model for real trad is folks that come from old money (a few generations) and simply don't care about this stuff the way so many who want to emulate the look do). A few basic good things in subtle colors, the right good shoes, a couple jackets, ties, and you're done. You won't have to worry about matching because everything matches with each other. And if it doesn't? That's sort of the original genesis of the go to hell look.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ what he said!


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> Don't have thoughts about it. No one but you will notice.
> 
> When I was fresher on this forum I would worry about stuff like that, or getting things the perfect length, or keeping my shoes perfectly clean. But now with greater age and wisdom (ha!) I realize what's a thousand times more important is having some style and uniqueness and masculinity. Leave the matching stuff to women, and leave the pursuit of some perfect standard to the style bloggers and window dressers.


Well said.


----------



## Carrsville

New Cole Haan Ascot's, not a bad shoe for the price.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Carrsville said:


> View attachment 16304
> View attachment 16305
> 
> New Cole Haan Ascot's, not a bad shoe for the price.


Those indeed look good. Are they new? I had thought the most recent versions had been kind of downgraded quality-wise, if you know what I mean, but I could be wrong.

- - - -

I think brown suede is great in horsebit loafers.


----------



## awvaliani

What do you think would be more suitable for a freshmen at a Northeastern Ivy League: Verona II, Gucci Bit, or Alden Cape Cod? I have a pair of the Alden CC in dark brown calf, and I was leaning towards the Verona II in black for my next purchase because it's fairly cheaper than the Gucci ($350 vs $640). However, I'm going to Dubai next week and will probably get a chance to shop there. At what price point would the Gucci be a better buy than the AE Verona II or Alden CC? Also, would you not recommend the Gucci over the AE or Alden at all? If so, what would be a better buy AE Verona II or Alden CC (both are $350)? Also, looking at the Ferragamo bit but it seems as if it's very overpriced ($400-$600) because I think all their bits are on the studio line. Opinions?


----------



## Doctor Damage

awvaliani said:


> What do you think would be more suitable for a freshmen at a Northeastern Ivy League: Verona II, Gucci Bit, or Alden Cape Cod? I have a pair of the Alden CC in dark brown calf, and I was leaning towards the Verona II in black for my next purchase because it's fairly cheaper than the Gucci ($350 vs $640). However, I'm going to Dubai next week and will probably get a chance to shop there. At what price point would the Gucci be a better buy than the AE Verona II or Alden CC? Also, would you not recommend the Gucci over the AE or Alden at all? If so, what would be a better buy AE Verona II or Alden CC (both are $350)? Also, looking at the Ferragamo bit but it seems as if it's very overpriced ($400-$600) because I think all their bits are on the studio line. Opinions?


Opinions? Sure, I've got one. Let's say the shoes you mention were all the same price. I would then buy the Ferragamo first, Gucci second, Verona a very close third, and the Cape Cods trailing by some distance.

The tricky bit is that Gucci and Ferragamo both make a bunch of different models, not all of equivalent quality. Some of Gucci's classic models, both the Tom Fords with taller heels and the current 1953 models, are solid, well made shoes. Some of Gucci's other models are not as good and are intended only for one season buyers and wearers. None of course are intended to last like double sole brogues, but that's not the point.

In terms of Ferragamo, some of their current bit loafers are very good quality, better than Gucci frankly (example: these ones LINK are excellent shoes, I've tried them on and would have bought them but for some fit issues).


----------



## Doctor Damage

This guy was a well known actor in the 1980s... anyone?


----------



## Doctor Damage

In answer to L-feld, I wear the 1953 loafers in a 9D (where are you getting G width?) and the classic model in 9.5D. Those are UK sizes, which is what Gucci sells here in Canada. They fit a lot differently however: the 1953 has a narrower heel which will grip better and a lower instep which prevents your foot from sliding forward too far. It is possible with the classic for your foot to slide too far forward and touch the front (which one of our members complained about years ago). Also the higher heels are a bit weird, and they have stiffeners around the rear uppers which makes them less flexible. I would say stick with the 1953 loafers if they fit you well, since they're actually more classic in appearance and in my opinion can be worn with a broader range of clothing, from dressed to casual (whereas the classic model is best worn with a suit or sports jacket and dress pants, believe it or not).


----------



## L-feld

Thanks for the input. On the boxes, the shoes I have purchased say "11 G" but I don't think that refers to width. I think it just means "Gucci sizing" versus "US sizing" which is how they are described on the website. One says "45E" as well, which I think, similarly, means "45 European sizing" rather than E width.

At any rate 11 is what I generally wear in UK sized shoes, so I assume "Gucci sizing" is the same as UK sizing. I was tempted by the white-metal bits on the classics, which I like better than the brass bits on the 1953's. I guess I still have my Veronas, but the Guccis are way more comfortable, so maybe I will just have to learn to love the brass bits.


----------



## Doctor Damage

45E is a European size for sure (45 cm) and the E is more or less equivalent to D width in North America. Many UK shoes have E as the width, but it's like a D here. European F is equivalent to an E here. Of course, that's not a hard and fast rule, but among the serious shoe brands it's fairly reliable. G is just plain weird, ha ha

Anyways, the 1953 models are more classic than the Classics, in my view, although the latter are probably a bit more robust. The latter are also roomier if you have 'chubby' feet. Brass is a a more trad colour than silver, for sure (take at look at the buckles on your surcingle belts - they're all brass).


----------



## L-feld

Gotcha. FWIW, the shoes themselves just say "11" with no width indicator.

I do have fat feet, but a low instep. Classic fallen arch. My toes are actually short in relation to my foot as I have a 12 arch length, but an 11 overall length. I used to wear 11 wides, but I've found that 12's actually fit me better as they are usually more snug at the instep, but still have toe room.

The 1953's are the first loafers I've ever owned that feel perfect without futzing around with pads or insoles or stretching, etc. I like the brass bit on the brown suede pair I have, but I'm slightly weird about getting a black pair with a brass bit. I just always thought that looked weird, even if that was the original incarnation of the shoe.

I'm sure I will get over it.


----------



## Doctor Damage

If you have foot problems then avoid anything with higher heels, like those Classic models. I'm glad the 1953 fit you so well - keep buying them. They also fit my feet perfectly, like they were made for them. Great stuff. I've got two pairs. Unfortunately I've got too many pairs of other types of unworn shoes in my closet to justify stocking up on 1953s.

As for the colour of horsebits, you're right the black + brass was the original spec. When I used to monitor e-Bay for vintage Gucci I think I only saw one pair of old shoes with silver bits. Anyways, life is too short and unpredictable to worry about things like that!


----------



## Doctor Damage

The duke of Westminster died today. The photo of him below (when he was much younger) was taken by Allan Warren and it's what got me interested in Gucci loafers, strange as that may seem.

https://postimg.org/image/h4z9e81cl/


----------



## Doctor Damage

Montreal policeman Robert Ménard, who just died (that's him in the bit loafers). Here's his obit: LINK, which is worth reading since he was a real character.


----------



## FLMike

^What a look. So great...the pistol, the cigarette, the sideburns, the Gucci bits. Fantastic.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's the least awful member of the K Klan.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Seriously I cannot stand that crew...what a waste of souls! Jeez Louise, that's almost enough to persuade me to give up on by beloved bit-loafers.


----------



## Doctor Damage

eagle2250 said:


> Seriously I cannot stand that crew...what a waste of souls! Jeez Louise, that's almost enough to persuade me to give up on by beloved bit-loafers.


They're an odious bunch, but playing the same cynical and profitable media game as someone who need not be mentioned. Anyways, wear your bit loafers proudly and show the world how they should be worn.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
LOL. Well said and I shall certainly abide by your wise counsel pertaining to the continued wearing of my Bit loafers!


----------



## LukeRoz

Reading this thread makes me want to try a pair. Any updated suggestions for a 'budget/starter' pair similar to the Massimo Matteo and DSW pairs mentioned earlier that are no longer available?


----------



## Doctor Damage

LukeRoz said:


> Reading this thread makes me want to try a pair. Any updated suggestions for a 'budget/starter' pair similar to the Massimo Matteo and DSW pairs mentioned earlier that are no longer available?


I don't know if Cole Haan's Ascot is still available (I doubt it) but that would be a start. I think you should just go right to AE's Verona II. They're good quality and plenty classic, and you might be able to get them on sale or something if price is an issue (even full price they're still a helluva lot of bank for the buck).


----------



## FLMike

Doctor Damage said:


> I think you should just go right to AE's Verona II. They're good quality and plenty classic, and you might be able to get them on sale or something if price is an issue (even full price they're still a helluva lot of bank for the buck).


+1. I second this recommendation.


----------



## LukeRoz

Any thoughts on the CH Fairmont vs Ascot II? I'm leaning towards the CH options to try out bit loafers before committing to some nice AE and beyond offering. Thanks!


----------



## Doctor Damage

LukeRoz said:


> Any thoughts on the CH Fairmont vs Ascot II? I'm leaning towards the CH options to try out bit loafers before committing to some nice AE and beyond offering. Thanks!


I wouldn't worry about whether you'll like bit loafers or not: if you've gotten to this stage you'll like them. They're just shoes, after all, and worn with the right clothes they're not any flashier then any other types of shoes, despite what you might think from seeing photos.

I think it's better to buy the best you can afford, rather than spend (waste?) money on something of lesser quality or appeal.


----------



## LukeRoz

any thoughts on these?

https://www.dsw.com/shoe/mercanti+fiorentini+bit+loafer?prodId=290374


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## Doctor Damage

LukeRoz said:


> any thoughts on these?
> 
> https://www.dsw.com/shoe/mercanti+fiorentini+bit+loafer?prodId=290374


They have several photos of the same shoe, in dark brown scotchgrain, here:
https://www.dsw.com/shoe/mercanti+fiorentini+bombe+bit+loafer?prodId=346732

They look quite nice. If I was in the U.S. I'd give them a shot.


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## eagle2250

Are my eyes deceiving me or are we looking at a gentleman wearing one green and one orange sock? :crazy:


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## BourbonandBranch

eagle2250 said:


> Are my eyes deceiving me or are we looking at a gentleman wearing one green and one orange sock? :crazy:


Unfortunately, it looks that way and no pair of shoes can cancel out that horrible decision. I don't get the flashy socks (or shoelaces, which I have seen lately) trend.

BnB


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## Doctor Damage

BourbonandBranch said:


> Unfortunately, it looks that way and no pair of shoes can cancel out that horrible decision. I don't get the flashy socks (or shoelaces, which I have seen lately) trend.


It's a British thing, to a large extent. Traditionally, once you weren't wearing a City suit and were wearing casual clothes, then light coloured socks, even with dark clothing, was common.


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## gamma68




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## Doctor Damage

About a week ago I did something to one of my feet, some sort of muscle pull, and no matter what shoes I wear they just irritate it more. Except for these, my old Gucci 157440 loafers, which I bought several years back and which remain extremely comfortable. The arches have never sagged, and the heels, despite huge mileage walking in sun and rain, are still not worn down much, so there's no misalignment of my feet. Even though I've had several pairs of really well made goodyear welted shoes, none have stayed as comfortable as these Gucci loafers.

https://postimg.org/image/d33ueoqh1/


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## Doctor Damage

Brian Mulroney, Canada's prime minister for several years in the 1980s, often wore Gucci loafers and had reportedly accumulated a large collection of them.

https://postimg.org/image/6fllmiarl/ https://postimg.org/image/t1cs8qme1/


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## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/re6dyjiev/


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## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/wn3ed8rk1/


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## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> https://postimg.org/image/re6dyjiev/


LOL. Now please tell me, who among us, in his right mind, is looking at the dude in that picture(!)? I do indeed love snaffle-bit loafers, but not quite that much!


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## tda003

I just did a count and found that I have 4 pair of the 1953's in black, brown black patent and brown suede. There aren't many occasions any more for me to come out of my Billfishers, but when it's slacks time, the Guuci loafers get worn more often than most others. They hold up remarkably well.


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## Doctor Damage

Mitchum & Cavett.

https://postimg.org/image/psijlv8p1/


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## Andrew Ryan

Some custom Rancourt & Co bit loafers I had made, specifically for wear with jeans - Montello Tempest sole w/ contrast midsole, and some relatively matte Gucci horse bits I sent in (taken from a pair of very beat up 1953 collection Gucci's that, for some reason had nickel/silver bits). I wanted them a bit more casual (hence using the somewhat matte bit and contrast sole, + Tempest) and prefer the Gucci bit's proportions to any other maker's so that was the idea.

























Obligatory side-by-side comparison - left is the AE Verona II, right is 1953 Gucci. I prefer the Gucci's for wear with more dressy getups and trousers, of course; the custom Rancourt were to fill a specific niche.


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## Doctor Damage

^ Fine looking shoes, with the rubber inserts a nice wet weather bit loafer!


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## Gerry98

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Fine looking shoes, with the rubber inserts a nice wet weather bit loafer!


Hi, DocD, I'm new to the forum and I've looked through this entire thread and was wondering why I can't see the images in the earliest posts. It just shows a blue box with a question mark and, on my phone, a box that says 'IMG.' Wondering if I'm the only one with this problem, thanks!

BTW just got my first pair of brown 1953s the day before Easter, never been happier.


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## Doctor Damage

Gerry98 said:


> Hi, DocD, I'm new to the forum and I've looked through this entire thread and was wondering why I can't see the images in the earliest posts. It just shows a blue box with a question mark and, on my phone, a box that says 'IMG.' Wondering if I'm the only one with this problem, thanks!


What happened is that whatever free online image hosting service I (and others) used at the time is now gone or they deleted old photos. It's a problem with free hosting. If you want to see something in particular let me know the post # and I'll try to figure out what it was and re-post.


> BTW just got my first pair of brown 1953s the day before Easter, never been happier.


I love the 1953 too. The last is 100% fit for my feet. I have a couple pairs sitting in the close unworn. I should have got a couple more.


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## Gerry98

Doctor Damage said:


> What happened is that whatever free online image hosting service I (and others) used at the time is now gone or they deleted old photos. It's a problem with free hosting. If you want to see something in particular let me know the post # and I'll try to figure out what it was and re-post.
> 
> I love the 1953 too. The last is 100% fit for my feet. I have a couple pairs sitting in the close unworn. I should have got a couple more.


Thanks! I will let you know as I have to go back through there thread now, haha.

I consider myself lucky that Gucci has kept the 1953, consistently, since 2013. I was so afraid that they've go back to the square toed, high heeled Ford model or alter it in some other way. However, I think it's safe to say that it's here to stay. Needs more color options, though. Only comes in black and brown.

Speaking of 1953, I've seen those pictures from The Met's website of the two vintage pairs in their collection (one from '53, another from the 1940s) and neither look like the current 1953. I thought that they called it the 1953 (not just '65th Anniversary Collection') because it was a true remade version of the shoe as it looked at its inception, but it's not. However, in this picture from 1959 (verifiably so given the cars in the background) the Guccis look quite a bit like the current 1953s, the bits seem not too large or round as the 70s ones were (see Doug Fairbanks, Jr.), so maybe the shoes were changed to the their current design shortly after their debut. It's all guessing, too bad Gucci isn't too helpful/transparent with such historical matters.


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## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> What happened is that whatever free online image hosting service I (and others) used at the time is now gone or they deleted old photos. It's a problem with free hosting. If you want to see something in particular let me know the post # and I'll try to figure out what it was and re-post.
> 
> I love the 1953 too. The last is 100% fit for my feet. I have a couple pairs sitting in the close unworn. I should have got a couple more.


The above is an example of what makes AAAC such a special place...a forum member willing to go the proverbial extra mile to answer another members question(s). Thank you for that, Doctor D!


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## Doctor Damage

I just checked my "Gucci" file on the hard drive and it has 5,699 items in it. I guess big hard drives make it waaaaay too easy to just save everything. In my defense, I'm a highly visual person so I find images to be as insightful as words.


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## Doctor Damage

This is what I think is the oldest pair I've ever seen for sale on e-Bay, although I have no idea what their age is; I'm speculating 1960s. Maybe earlier? What's clear is the basic design and proportions has changed back and forth over time.


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## Doctor Damage

Here's U of W's new chancellor in Gucci loafers, probably rather old given the mix of higher heels with slim soles.


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## FLMike

^Great pic and great use of 1953’s.


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## Vecchio Vespa

As my 69 year old feet rebelled at my late 80s Guccis, last year I picked up a pair of AE Veronas in EEE. Other than the slightly less stacked heel, the brushed nickel in lieu of brass, and the comfort of the extra width I find them indistinguishable.


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## Doctor Damage

TKI67 said:


> As my 69 year old feet rebelled at my late 80s Guccis, last year I picked up a pair of AE Veronas in EEE. Other than the slightly less stacked heel, the brushed nickel in lieu of brass, and the comfort of the extra width I find them indistinguishable.


Good post... yeah our feet change over the years. I've got a nice pair of USA-made Cole Haan brogues which are too small for me now, but I wish I could still wear them.


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## Doctor Damage

actor Stanley Baker, 1970


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## ran23

My first and only is a Cole Haan black I found at a thrift store.


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## Doctor Damage

Does anyone know if the AE Verona II has been cancelled? I was looking at their website just now and that model is available in one colour, wide only, and three sizes, which suggests they're just selling off a few odds and ends. It would be a real shame if the model is gone.


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## Gerry98

Doctor Damage said:


> This is what I think is the oldest pair I've ever seen for sale on e-Bay, although I have no idea what their age is; I'm speculating 1960s. Maybe earlier? What's clear is the basic design and proportions has changed back and forth over time.


Wow, just realized that these appear to be the same shape of the Guccis featured in the Gucci Museo exhibit from a few years back (1960s, maybe late 1950s):


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## Gerry98

Also, found this pair of rare (in my opinion) suede Gucci loafers from the estate of Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. (I previously posted an imagine on here of him wearing a, seemingly, calfskin pair) which were auctioned off back in 2011. They probably date from the 1960s or 70's, shame that the inside label is missing:


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## eagle2250

Gerry98 said:


> Also, found this pair of rare (in my opinion) suede Gucci loafers from the estate of Douglas Fairbanks, Jr. (I previously posted an imagine on here of him wearing a, seemingly, calfskin pair) which were auctioned off back in 2011. They probably date from the 1960s or 70's, shame that the inside label is missing:
> View attachment 23315


May we assume that they were in your size and that you plan to actually wear them or do you plan to hold them as purely fan memorabilia? :icon_scratch:


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## Gerry98

eagle2250 said:


> May we assume that they were in your size and that you plan to actually wear them or do you plan to hold them as purely fan memorabilia? :icon_scratch:


I wish. The auction was in 2011, well before I ever cared about bit loafers. Some lucky soul owns them now, I hope.


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## eagle2250

^^
Sorry to hear that. Perhaps you will prevail in the next auction, in which you participate.


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## wilhelm00

I just can't. A bit belongs in my horse's mouth, not on top of my shoes.


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## Gerry98

wilhelm00 said:


> I just can't. A bit belongs in my horse's mouth, not on top of my shoes.


If you "can't" then why are you here?


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## Doctor Damage

Here's a great looking pair of old Gucci's which I saw on e-Bay while looking for something else. Note the superb quality of the uppers (I've handled an old pair like this, that leather is butter soft but very tough) and the soles (it's hard to find sole leather like that anymore except on the most expensive shoes).


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## Gerry98

Doctor Damage said:


> Here's a great looking pair of old Gucci's which I saw on e-Bay while looking for something else. Note the superb quality of the uppers (I've handled an old pair like this, that leather is butter soft but very tough) and the soles (it's hard to find sole leather like that anymore except on the most expensive shoes).


Have they sold? If not, could you please give a link to the listing?


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## WillBarrett

Saw a decent pair of black Martin Dingman horsebits on the Bay recently, but I can't bring myself to pull the trigger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Doctor Damage

Gerry98 said:


> Have they sold? If not, could you please give a link to the listing?


I'm afraid I don't have the link. You'll just have to dig around on e-Bay and if you're persistent you'll find them. I saw the listing yesterday so I imagine it's still active.


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## Gerry98

Doctor Damage said:


> I'm afraid I don't have the link. You'll just have to dig around on e-Bay and if you're persistent you'll find them. I saw the listing yesterday so I imagine it's still active.


Found it, thanks.


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## Dragoon

I came across this story about gucci loafers yesterday. Not going to review all 90 pages of this thread to see if it's already been shared.

https://www.acontinuouslean.com/2011/05/24/made-in-italy-the-iconic-gucci-loafer/


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## Doctor Damage

I was at the mall today to meet a friend for a coffee and we wandered around a bit to stretch our legs. We went into the Ferragamo store and I see they have some really excellent quality bit loafers (links below). The bits are too large, which is unfortunate since the underlying shoes were superb. With smaller bits I would have bought them. The photos on the website do not do them justice at all.

https://www.ferragamo.com/shop/ca/en/men/shoes-3074457345616743845--1/drivers/bond-696001


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## Doctor Damage




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## Doctor Damage

I'm pleased to see that AE has the Verona II on their website again, so they apparently still offer it thankfully. I had posted a while back that it was gone from their site but they must have just been revamping the site or something. Anyways, great shoes.


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## FLMike

On my feet today. Purchased at NYC Gucci store circa 2002. Holding up quite well.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Doctor Damage

^ nice shoes! weather is finally getter nicer here so I can pull out my bit loafers


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## Doctor Damage




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## Doctor Damage




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## Doctor Damage

extremely rare photo of Charles wearing Gucci loafers, I've seen a second photo from this appearance and Mountbatten is looking down at the shoes lol


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## eagle2250

^^
Nice kicks on a good man!


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## Doctor Damage

Tom Cruise's son


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