# Blue suit, brown shoes



## rmcnabb (Feb 25, 2009)

I work in the medical field and the flashiest dressers I see on a consistent basis are drug reps. They're usually given extra money to keep their wardrobes updated (or so we're told) and encouraged to always look sharp. Very few actually wind up looking good, more commonly they just look flashy and trendy and freshly pressed, which doesn't equate to good taste in my book. (The men are the worst offenders by far - the women usually wind up looking quite smart.) This is not meant to be a characterization of drug reps in general, it's just that they brought this to my attention.

Anyway, a constant trend I've noticed over the past 2-3 years is brown shoes with a blue or black suit. The first time I saw it I thought someone was just having a private joke. But then, on the third or fouth person it became obvious that a trend had moved into town, much like when Jaws moved in to the beaches off Long Island. I know there are times when blues and browns look great together, (dirty bucks with seersucker, boat shoes with a blue blazer,) but this is obviously just someone who took his regular navy chalk stripe and instead of putting his hand on the black cap toes, he reaches 10" to the right and grabs the brown ones instead, thus becoming "fashionable". (The next thing that happened was that toes got longer, and squarer, and then squarer still, and longer still, but that's a rant for another day. :icon_pale

Was my head in the sand or is it true that this just started happening recently? I'm reminded of the Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy gag about who needed who in the duo: "I need you? I need you? I need you like a tuxedo needs brown shoes!"


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

rmcnabb said:


> I work in the medical field and the flashiest dressers I see on a consistent basis are drug reps. They're usually given extra money to keep their wardrobes updated (or so we're told) and encouraged to always look sharp. Very few actually wind up looking good, more commonly they just look flashy and trendy and freshly pressed, which doesn't equate to good taste in my book. (The men are the worst offenders by far - the women usually wind up looking quite smart.) This is not meant to be a characterization of drug reps in general, it's just that they brought this to my attention.
> 
> Anyway, a constant trend I've noticed over the past 2-3 years is brown shoes with a blue or black suit. The first time I saw it I thought someone was just having a private joke. But then, on the third or fouth person it became obvious that a trend had moved into town, much like when Jaws moved in to the beaches off Long Island. I know there are times when blues and browns look great together, (dirty bucks with seersucker, boat shoes with a blue blazer,) but this is obviously just someone who took his regular navy chalk stripe and instead of putting his hand on the black cap toes, he reaches 10" to the right and grabs the brown ones instead, thus becoming "fashionable". (The next thing that happened was that toes got longer, and squarer, and then squarer still, and longer still, but that's a rant for another day. :icon_pale
> 
> Was my head in the sand or is it true that this just started happening recently? I'm reminded of the Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy gag about who needed who in the duo: "I need you? I need you? I need you like a tuxedo needs brown shoes!"


Good question. There was an old-school line of thinking that said blue clothing and brown shoes should never be paired. (My 88 year old parents think it is a terrible idea.) More recently, one of the fashion magazines had a quote, and I wish I could cite it properly, saying something to the effect that modern quality fabrics and leathers make blue and brown a great mix. I do it without hesitation, and there are plenty here who do the same. Bill


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

rmcnabb said:


> I work in the medical field and the flashiest dressers I see on a consistent basis are drug reps. They're usually given extra money to keep their wardrobes updated (or so we're told) and encouraged to always look sharp. Very few actually wind up looking good, more commonly they just look flashy and trendy and freshly pressed, which doesn't equate to good taste in my book. (The men are the worst offenders by far - the women usually wind up looking quite smart.) This is not meant to be a characterization of drug reps in general, it's just that they brought this to my attention.
> 
> Anyway, a constant trend I've noticed over the past 2-3 years is brown shoes with a blue or black suit. The first time I saw it I thought someone was just having a private joke. But then, on the third or fouth person it became obvious that a trend had moved into town, much like when Jaws moved in to the beaches off Long Island. I know there are times when blues and browns look great together, (dirty bucks with seersucker, boat shoes with a blue blazer,) but this is obviously just someone who took his regular navy chalk stripe and instead of putting his hand on the black cap toes, he reaches 10" to the right and grabs the brown ones instead, thus becoming "fashionable". (The next thing that happened was that toes got longer, and squarer, and then squarer still, and longer still, but that's a rant for another day. :icon_pale
> 
> Was my head in the sand or is it true that this just started happening recently? I'm reminded of the Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy gag about who needed who in the duo: "I need you? I need you? I need you like a tuxedo needs brown shoes!"


IMO there is nothing wrong with brown shoes and a navy suit in most business settings, at least in the US, although lighter the shades of brown would indeed be more fashion forward. But never paired with a black suit IMO, though of course I would never wear a black suit to begin with ( I am well aware that others who are generally less traditional disagree with this). The UK admonition against brown in town has never really taken in the US, even in big city law and banking. Square toed shoes are ugly regardless of color.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Mike Petrik said:


> Square toed shoes are ugly regardless of color.


My best rep wears Kenneth Cole knock-offs with HUGE square toes. Well, at least he will never sink in our massive NJ snowstorms! Reps are having a tough time, along with everyone else in this economy. I treat him like a king.
:devil:


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

rmcnabb said:


> ...Anyway, a constant trend I've noticed over the past 2-3 years is brown shoes with a blue or black suit. The first time I saw it I thought someone was just having a private joke....


 It's been a strong style since 1937 !!

Esquire Magazine 1937.

The Italians made it even more popular in the 1970's and 1980's. I know gentlemen who don't even own a pair of black shoes!


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## JD to you (Oct 14, 2007)

Andy said:


> It's been a strong style since 1937 !!
> 
> Esquire Magazine 1937.
> 
> The Italians made it even more popular in the 1970's and 1980's. I know gentlemen who don't even own a pair of black shoes!


My father is one of them :icon_smile:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

As Andy has shown, this pairing has been around at least since the '30's, though part of the reason it's being shown is because it was considered a bit racy, I.e., stylish within the context of that era. It's been both popular and unpopular during the last 50 or 60 years in the U.S., but many in the UK have often found it unwelcome, particularly in more formal settings. 

I like brown shoes with blue suits, as well as black shoes. I've proven to my own satisfaction though that it's possible to find brown shoes that *don't *pair well with a particular blue. I find I prefer dark espresso browns with more formal dark navy suits. Lighter and more casual navys and other blues can look great with a pretty broad range of browns.

If I'm wearing a black suit, it's called a dinner jacket and formal trousers, and it will only ever have appropriate black evening shoes under it.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I think tobacco suede wingtips or captoe oxfords can look sharp with a steel- or "air force" blue suit, or even light navy, but other than that I'm more conventional and generally stick to black shoes with my darker navy suits.

Brown with blue can be done, but you have to have a certain _je ne sais quoi,_ or as our French friends might say, "a quality of I don't know what sort" in order to pull it off, and it sounds as if the drug-company salespeople of whom you speak aren't quite getting it done.


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## JayJay (Oct 8, 2007)

I prefer black shoes with navy, but occasionally on a Friday when it's a bit more relaxed, I'll wear brown shoes with a navy suit.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

I exclusively wear brown shoes with blue suits. It never struck me as being particularly "fashion forward".


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## rmcnabb (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks very much. That beautiful drawing from Esquire really opened my eyes. I suppose what I was choking on was the shoes themselves (like I said, long square-toed things) rather than the color. But I suppose it's the sort of I would have to do very carefully - not just any brown shoe - it would have to be just the right brown shoe. But then the wrong brown shoe would look bad anywhere, wouldn't it?

Like I said, I meant to cast no aspersions, I merely thought that since I was seeing it among a group of people I perceive to be fashion forward, that maybe it was a new thing. I need to read more old copies of Esquire, obviously. 

Thanks very much.


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## Bespoke Trout (Jun 1, 2008)

I know more Europeans who do this than Americans. I think if the brown is dark enough, it can work with blue. The lighter a shade of brown it is, the stranger it looks. That's just my opinion--if that's your thing, rock on. 

BT


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## Vecsus (Aug 27, 2005)

I've always liked the look of brown and blue. I'm starting a new job on Monday and plan to wear a navy suit and a pair of dark brown Peal monks. Doing this will do two things. First, any comments will give me an idea about the type of people I'm working with. Second, it will set a baseline for the style I plan to follow. (this is my first civilian job after retiring from the military so I am developing my own personal style.)


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

I wear a lot of blue and grey suits and always wear brown shoes.....generally a chestnut, dark oak, equivalent. 

I have 4 pair of black shoes (against 50+ pr of brown shades) and only will wear them with a grey glen plaid (that won't work with brown shades) or black chalk stripe suit or to a funeral with a black suit. Black shoes are boring. How can you antique black leather?

Perry


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

While I know that most here like brown shoes with navy suits, I've never liked it. It just doesn't look good to me. Having said that, I really like burgandy shoes with navy. In fact, burgandy works in almost every situation that I can think of where brown might be worn and burgandy looks much dressier. 

I guess I don't need to say that I don't own any brown dress shoes. Actually I almost consider "brown dress shoes" to be one of those oxymorons that folks speak about. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Vecsus said:


> and a pair of dark brown Peal monks.


What, no patent leather low-quarters? :icon_smile_big:


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## Fang66 (Mar 25, 2009)

Blue suit + black shoes = B.D.E. Bus Driver Effect


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Fang66 said:


> Blue suit + black shoes = B.D.E. Bus Driver Effect


Oh please, as if a man in a Hickey-Freeman navy pinstriped suit and a pair of black C&J captoes is going to be mistaken for a bus driver . . .


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## Fang66 (Mar 25, 2009)

My apologies sir, it was meant as a joke. 
By the way can you let me off at the next stop?


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## Cary Grant (Sep 11, 2008)

Go w/black for the most formal occasions... or funerals... otherwise, brown is your best bet.


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## Vecsus (Aug 27, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> What, no patent leather low-quarters? :icon_smile_big:


I think I wore "corframs" two or three times in my entire military career. I hated the concept of wearing plastic shoes that were cleaned with windex. I wore real leather and put a polish on them myself. I now own two pair of black civilian dress shoes but will rarely wear them. I've always liked the variety and style available in brown shoes. Now I just need to get my wife to understand why I need to have several different shades of brown dress shoes. I am up to five pair so far. Surprisingly, the Peal Monks were her idea...she loves the look of monks and so do I so that could be dangerous.


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## clee1982 (Jan 10, 2009)

Do you consider this trendy?

Brown shoes, Navy suit, Pink shirt, brown belt, singletone tie of any dark colors.

I would say so, but does look quite sharp if you ask me.

P.S. I like black dress shoes though, most of my suits are darker colors, I only have two brown shoes that in my opinion are the right brown shoe to go with navy suits.


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*Darker brown shoes, especially suede, ....*

go well with blue suits. I also wear them with gray, as well as the lighter brown shoes.


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## THORVALD (Jan 30, 2007)

*DARKER brown*

Darker brown the BETTER :icon_smile_big: Thorvald


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

Brown shoes with blue suits is a classic look. 

However, it is much more obvious when you wear really light brown shoes.

I've noticed that when I wear my chestnut AE's with a navy suit I get comments on my attire. Positive comments, but comments nonetheless.

On the other hand, while it makes me feel good and well-dressed, I've never received any comments when I've worn merlot or brown shoes with my navy suits.

I'd guess its because the color distinction is so different that people tend to notice more.


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## PinkPlaidSocks (May 1, 2008)

I only wear black shoes with black or dark grey suits. Everything else is some shade of brown or burgundy. Picking the right shade of shoes for the outfit is as fun as picking the tie or pocket square to me.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Vecsus said:


> I think I wore "corframs" two or three times in my entire military career. I hated the concept of wearing plastic shoes that were cleaned with windex. I wore real leather and put a polish on them myself. I now own two pair of black civilian dress shoes but will rarely wear them. I've always liked the variety and style available in brown shoes. Now I just need to get my wife to understand why I need to have several different shades of brown dress shoes. I am up to five pair so far. Surprisingly, the Peal Monks were her idea...she loves the look of monks and so do I so that could be dangerous.


Corfams? Corframs? No matter. I wore mine 3 times in 3 years, for each semi-annual inspection in our hospital. They looked so good that I always got excused from the next inspection. Plastic, indeed, to the point of lacerating your lower ankle.


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## mt_spiffy (Apr 12, 2008)

Most suits are black, blue, or grey. I get tired of wearing black shoes with everything. When I decided to pull out some brown shoes with a navy suit, it wasnt because of trend, it was because I was bored and wanted to try it. Usually I'll make sure the shirt or tie has some coordinating colors.


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## jauburn (Jun 15, 2008)

Srynerson said:


> I exclusively wear brown shoes with blue suits. It never struck me as being particularly "fashion forward".


I think the most _doltish_ thing you can wear with a blue suit is _a black shoe_. How utterly in poor taste!


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## jauburn (Jun 15, 2008)

PinkPlaidSocks said:


> I only wear black shoes with black or dark grey suits. Everything else is some shade of brown or burgundy. Picking the right shade of shoes for the outfit is as fun as picking the tie or pocket square to me.


Now _there_ is a man with some sense.


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## NewYorker30 (Mar 20, 2008)

I wear both burgundy color shoes and black color shoes with blue suits but I never wear brown colored shoes with blue suits. I refuse to even buy brown colored shoes in the first place because burgundy shoes go with more clothing colors than brown shoes do (at least in my opinion). When I first started dressing well many years ago I owned a pair of brown oxfords and I just remember them not matching or going with as many articles of clothing compared to the burgundy and black oxford shoes.


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## PeterEliot (Jul 9, 2008)

How about (navy+dark brown) or (navy+chestnut) combinations?

It has been my untutored understanding that the above colors are not only acceptable but actually in good taste... Was I mistaken all this time?


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## chrstc (Jun 11, 2007)

PeterEliot said:


> How about (navy+dark brown) or (navy+chestnut) combinations?
> 
> It has been my untutored understanding that the above colors are not only acceptable but actually in good taste... Was I mistaken all this time?


Hello,

It's purely a question of taste. Personally as an Englishman who likes to dress in an "English" way I would never even consider wearing brown shoes with blue suits. My father always told me right from the age when my shoe obsession began that this was "not the done thing" in this country and recently Mr. Moore at Fosters told me that he hates the look too. These are two gentlemen for whom I have the greatest of respect so I certainly don't feel the need to ignore their advice. However I do accept that for those coming from different cultural backgrounds these rules don't necessarily apply.

Chris.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

Andy said:


> It's been a strong style since 1937 !!
> 
> Esquire Magazine 1937.
> 
> The Italians made it even more popular in the 1970's and 1980's. I know gentlemen who don't even own a pair of black shoes!


Whatever happened to black with blue and brown with gray? Maybe it's too old school for most members.


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## derum (Dec 29, 2008)

Bespoke Trout said:


> I know more Europeans who do this than Americans. I think if the brown is dark enough, it can work with blue. The lighter a shade of brown it is, the stranger it looks. That's just my opinion--if that's your thing, rock on.
> 
> BT


As a European, I concur. I think that good brown shoes look so much better than black with Navy.
But I am one of those who does not particularly like black shoes, though I obviously own some, they probably will never need ro be re-soled!


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## Richard Baker (Feb 13, 2009)

*Blue suits and brown shows, culture and taste*

Regarding this important thread, the variety of opinions covers a spectrum that are not necessarily all contradictory. TinyTim and other are correct that the original English rule said blue with black shoes only, and that remains the default line in an urban/city setting. The discreteness and elegance of this combination is without doubt more elegant and professional in responsible non-IT, non-100%-office-based jobs. PJC in Nova is correct that the quality of the garb should prevent the negative effect that Fang66 is worried about. For the warmer and sunnier Italian climes this default combination might be a bit too somber at times. So the Italians started the brown-shoe trend and imported it to the Americas in the begin of the 20th Century, as Andy's and Bespoke Trouts posts show; and, as Bradford said, it has indeed become a classic. Nonetheless, blue and brown is less elegant and more relaxed as JayJay pointed out. So apart form personal fashion issues, an elegant navy suit loses out when paired with brown shoes in a contradictory fashion, whilst a more relaxed suit, especially in coarser fabrics, can cope with brown in a more relaxed or suburban setting and can look very nice, although the default should be black shoes. Flanderian's approach is good, as long as the right shoes are matched with appropriate suits. Interestingly, the blue suit debate can be similarly extended to the grey suit.


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## Richard Baker (Feb 13, 2009)

Sorry, my posting was truncated. Cruiser's posting reminded me that since my time in the US I have developed increasing respect for Oxblood as a shoe colour, and although it is less classic and elegant as the black shoe with navy suits, it can be a great mix, in formality standing between black shoes and their brown counterparts. Additionally, a lot depends of the other components of the outfit. In the illustration in Andy's posting the tie reflects the shoes nicely, but without any other brown part of the outfit, an isolated pair of brown shoes with this suit would look out of place. When shirt, tie, pocket square, hat etc. are reflecting or taking up the shoe colour, the brown/oxblood shoes become a harmonious contrast in the right setting. The last New Year's Eve posting by Will on asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com is a stylish example.


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## icky thump (Feb 2, 2008)

It's not really a traditional look but I'll wear my AE Chili Delwoods with a Navy suit if I am just going to the office and not to anywhere super formal. 

I have a few shirts and ties that have hints of each color in them and if I combine them it works out.


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## Lowndes (Feb 25, 2008)

I personally think brown shoes look great with Navy suits. Just wore my C&J Lowndes in dark brown with a navy suit not too long ago.


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## GreenPlastic (Jan 27, 2009)

The problem is that "brown" is a broad category that encompasses so many different shades. Ditto "blue." Asking if a blue suit can be worn with brown shoes is sort of like asking if it's ok to be drinking some sort of liquid while driving. Drinking _what_? A soda, sure. A beer, no. Same thing with shoes and suits. The shade of blue and the shade of brown need to complement each other. Unfortunately's there's no code of law as to which shade goes with which. It's a trial-and-error, personal experimentation sort of thing.

As a general rule of thumb, though, I find that a truly dazzling shade of brown goes with just about anything. Something very deep and antiqued and stunning. This is mainly the specialty of the better English shoemakers, IMO.


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## spudnik99 (Apr 27, 2007)

Not my style, but I think this works (M.R. from The Sartorialist):


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## DorianGrey (Jul 6, 2007)

I have a pair of chestnut museum calf Lobbs that I will wear with a blue suit (but not dark navy). But I also coordinate with what I think is a proper tie/shirt combo to wear with the chestnut shoes. For instance, if I wear a blue suit and the chestnut Lobbs, I will generally wear a light blue shirt and a tie that is of a complimentary color to the chestnut (gold, orange, etc). And of course I will wear a brown belt. For some reason I do not like the look of braces while wearing brown shoes.

Here is a pic of my Lobbs so you know what color I am talking about.



















And here is a shirt/tie combo I will pair it with.










I think the colors work together. If I am wearing a navy suit/white shirt/dark tie I don't think the brown shoes work and prefer a black captoe. Oh and by the way, I just came back from two weeks in london and I saw blue suits with brown shoes all over the place by well dressed men (Gieves and Hawkes seemed to be pushing brown shoes rather hard). And contrary to what has been posted here before jeans are VERY popular for people under 40 and I wish I would have brought another pair for nights out in Soho - but that's a different thread


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## Timeless Fashion (Apr 12, 2009)

I've never worn brown shoes with a blue suit. I'm curious how the blue suit looks with a brown belt, which you would obviously wear with brown shoes.


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## Bezalel (Oct 6, 2008)

Dorian, those are beautiful Lobbs. I also like your shirt/tie combination, and think with a blue suit and those shoes it would be very nice. What about socks? Orange or blue?


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## DorianGrey (Jul 6, 2007)

Bezalel said:


> Dorian, those are beautiful Lobbs. I also like your shirt/tie combination, and think with a blue suit and those shoes it would be very nice. What about socks? Orange or blue?


Thanks - I pair them with blue socks when wearing a combo like this.


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## spudnik99 (Apr 27, 2007)

He's a link to the aforementioned Mariano Rubinacci blue suit, brown shoe combo:


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

The only real "rule," which is almost 100% ignored today, is that black shoes are for city wear (and for everywhere after 6 pm) and brown are for country day wear. But that rule was being broken pretty vigorously about 80 years ago, and is truly archaic now. Various "rules" about whether black goes with navy and brown with grey and burgundy with freakin' lilac britches are all actually aesthetic judgments by one person or another, sometimes sanctified by repition.

Generally, wearing shoes lighter than your pants will be percieved as a daring or conspicuous choice, simply because it will draw the eye down towards the feet. You may or may not find this to be a good thing. FWIW, I often wear brown with navy, although I generally shoot for a darker brown than you show (you could always polish them a bit darker if you really wanted them to look less conspicuous with navy).


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## SOhp101 (Apr 3, 2009)

I always thought Brown + Blue was okay, but my personal preference, when it comes to brown shoes, is the darker the better.


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## mt_spiffy (Apr 12, 2008)

Beautiful shoes, and they go well with the tie.


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## Richard Baker (Feb 13, 2009)

CuffDaddy is right that the black/blue rule was broken 80 years ago, and most enduring rules are confirmed by being broken, for the rule-breaker, often subconsciously, wants to make a statement. The setting is important, and in a suburban setting (a semi-country environment so to speak) or a creative profession traditional rules are often bent, deconstructed and played with; the point is whether it is done knowledgeably or out of ignorance and herd instinct. Whilst since Beau Brummell most agree that black is more elegant that brown, and that black shoes are more elegant - few would prefer brown shows to black shoes with an elegant Black Tie - but often that we don't want to achieve that in certain situations. Rules are indeed often formed by repetition, and the interplay between collective style, individual style, manipulative marketing by sales - driven companies, and fashion makes clothes such a vital part of expressing our personality. 

DorianGrey is right that the standards have been London are slipping, and the Americanisation and Continentalisation of Britain - not necessarily always a bad thing - is visible, but that makes it also a more creative and interesting place. Unfortunately the blind adherence to traditional rules tends to be replaced by the blind adherence to rules of sloppiness and boring jeans-and-any-top rules. Mind you, such beautiful Lobbs deserve prime place in a shoe wardrobe, and your tie is a worthy accompaniment - a very stylish combination.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

And I gladly wear my Chestnut Museum Suttons with a navy blue suit.

I find black boring. Owning 4 pair of black shoes and untold dozens of pairs of brown/tan/red shoes.

In fact I have to think about the last time I wore black shoes. It was somewhat recently and I was wearing an odd jacket of a black/white checked fabric and (horrors!) I wore them with black slacks. I will admit that brown shoes don't go well with black slacks or black suits. <g>

To answer the inevitable question yes, red with blue suit:
From Testoni Black Label:









and from John Lobb in Red Lord Calf:









Perry


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