# Land Cruiser



## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

I thought I would take a break from the politico discussions and ask advice. I am in the process of selecting a new vehicle. I have always wanted one. Any thoughts or suggestions would be kindly appreciated.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Bwep,

Toyotas are bulletproof and Land Cruiser is perhaps the best technical SUV on the market but it lacks a certain something in my opinion. I would consider the new Range Rover Sport (a friend has one and loves it) or the venerable Geländewagen from Mercedes. And the new BMW X5 is out but I havent driven in one yet.

Karl


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Before I comment, could you explain your needs in a vehicle, the amount of off-roading/bad weather driving you do, that sort of thing?


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Karl

I have an X5 4.4 and love it. I am not thrilled with the BMW service, however. I love the drive, the fact that I can take it off road, etc... I think that I want a change.

Wayfarer

I was hoping to hear from you. The vehicle will be used for many things from sport (toting the bikes, toting the lab, trekking in ski country) and highway travel to work. I also have two young kids and need something sturdy, that can take a beating (I do not like them to have to withold from food and take their shoes off). I want something safe.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

*Don't forget VW*

Bwep,

Given your needs you might even consider the VW Touareg. The new diesel V10 has 553 ft/lbs of tourque in case you ever need to tow an aircraft carrier or something. But the Touareg has a jewel of interior and pretty decent handling characteristics. If safety is your biggest concern the Mercedes M Class SUVs just received a 5 Star crash rating and the Volvo XC90 has gotten a bit gutsier with a new Yamaha sourced V8.

Karl


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Okay, got the parameters.

I would not suggest the XC90. My wife has one and it is a great car, but I think you might find it too small for a family and gear. Very safe though and we're very happy with the service department.

Karl mentioned Mercedes and they did just re-do the M-Class. I test drove the bigger GL 450, that might do it. Nice and roomy, powerful, safe. I test drove it and declined because I wanted something a bit more truckish for the Arizona desert. If not for that, I would have chosen the Mercedes.

The LC should fit your bill nicely too, but I will caution you that after two or three trips to service at my local Toyota dealership, I will not get another Toyota. Same reason I wanted to get rid of my Nissan Titan. You might have a great vehicle but you have to sit in a noisy, brat infested service area while people get their 15 year old low-line Sentra or Corolla serviced. That might not bother you though, for me a tranquil waiting room is a big plus. Maybe the Lexus version of the LC?

The Rovers are nice, great service treatment too. Loaners are complimentary and are always a Rover or Jag for me. However, while I have yet to have a single mis-step with my Rover, one does hear horror stories. That is why I leased mine.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Wayfarer

All very good points. We have looked at the Volvo in the past. my wife actually went with the MDX and we are very pleased. I want something a bit larger than the XC90. I have also thought about the LR3. Still, something keeps bringing back to the LC which I have always wanted. The part of the service is my only reservation. The Lexus is a thought, but it seems to "prissy" (not meaning to offend anyone as one of my partners has one). There is something more "common mannish" about having a Toyota (a big expensive one I know...)


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Another vote for the Range Rover Sport...I'd deffinately give it a good look if I were you...I like the LR3...but if youre going to shell out the cash for one of those or a Toyota Land Cruiser, I'd deffinately consider spending a bit more and getting the Range, I've ridden in all 3 and must say that the Range is by far the most luxurious, but from what I understand (and I've never had the opportunity to test this theory), the Range Rover is one of the most capable off-road SUVs commercially available...

Now, a friend of mine just recently took delivery on a new G500, I know alot of people dont like those, but after sitting in it, all I can say is WOW...deffinately another ride worth looking at...


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

No one seems concerned about the questionable reliability record of the RR. I've read that the LR3 has had some serious knocks against it for that. 

While I've never owned or driven a Land Cruiser I do know that they are quite venerable and hold their value quite well. I suppose there's a good reason for that. As a Lexus owner I can only sing praises for the durability and reliability of Toyota/Lexus products so I will therefore endorse the Land Cruiser.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

The Rover line up is as follows:

LR3 which is the most adventure oriented. It has a 300hp Jaguar based V8. It is roomier than the RR Sport.

RR Sport. Comes with a supercharged 390hp engine. Substantially smaller than the LR3, both more narrow and less cargo room. No doubt very capable off road, but not as much as the LR3.

RR. Biggest of the three. Most luxurious of the three. Same supercharged 390hp engine as the sport. Least off road capable but still very capable relative to other vehicles. Certainly more than an Escalade or Navigator.

I drove all three, chose the LR3 for a combination of price, room, off road ability, and apparently they have the '06's QC issues mainly ironed out. However, it is a lease so pretty much anything that goes wrong is paid for by warranty and I have it written in my contract I get a complimentary LR or Jag loaner.

Oh, and this just out, LR3 in top five for retaining value, not that it means diddly to me as I am leasing.

Land Cruiser a venerated vehicle fer sure. However, I have stated why I do not want to deal with Toyota service.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Wayfarer,

The only thing I dont like about the LR3 (why did they ditch the Disco name anyway?) is the rear tailgate - seems like left over parts from the Rover bin circa 1990. How does it handle on road? The previous Disco sometimes felt a bit tippy in corners.

Karl


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Karl:

It handles very well. Turn radius is great, breaking is great, acceleration is okay but far from the gut churner my Titan was. Off road it is a dream, routinely drives over things that would have my Titan crying.

I could take or leave the tailgate, but I am still getting used to having a covered vehicle vs. a pick up truck bed.

I think they ditched the Disco name in the US and Canada due to reliability issues. They thought a re-branding would help. I think building something that does not break would help  In the UK it is still a Disco, the Disco 3.

I like the thought of taking a pick up and giving it premium dress, like GM and Ford has done. However, I would not drive one of those. My hope is that the newly redesigned Tundra is all Toyota has said it will be and by the time this lease is up they will have a Lexus version. I have decided, after about six month in an SUV, that I do like having an open bed. Just this weekend I wanted to go grab my yearly load of firewood and not only would it not fit in the back of the Rover, who wants to load the cargo area of their leased 60k vehicle with firewood?!


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## Hedonist (Nov 5, 2006)

Consumer Reports on autos? 

Reliabilty is important, gas is another important factor, don't want to buy a 4WD only to refuel the tank every 10 mins! (Like the new Bugatti)


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Wayfarer

I went to look at the LR3 and the sport. While I like the exterior of the sport, it is very similar to my X5 inside. The LR3 was impressive. I was very surprised and impressed with the amount of things that they have put in or filled the vehicle and the amount of space that remains. Only issue is that I could not get the dealership to bargain whatsoever. They would not budge. Maybe, the salesman did not take me seriously. I do not know.

Off to see the land cruiser again


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

bwep said:


> Wayfarer
> 
> I went to look at the LR3 and the sport. While I like the exterior of the sport, it is very similar to my X5 inside. The LR3 was impressive. I was very surprised and impressed with the amount of things that they have put in or filled the vehicle and the amount of space that remains. Only issue is that I could not get the dealership to bargain whatsoever. They would not budge. Maybe, the salesman did not take me seriously. I do not know.
> 
> Off to see the land cruiser again


You should be able to get a spanking deal. If they will not bargain, seek another dealership. If you are leasing, I can run over the lease formula for you so you can do the calculations as easy as they do. Based on the MSRP, I was able to get 9k off the sticker price in August '06 for an '06. The '07's just are arriving now, so that was the current model year for LR3s. Even off a new '07 you should be able to get several grand off. Make sure a loaner is in writing too. While I have had no problems yet, we've all heard of LR horror stories in the past years. They seem to have most things worked out for 06's and on though.

Did they have the man-made test course for you at that dealership? Did they take you up the hill and across the incline parallel to the slope? That impressed the hell outta me right there.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Wayfarer

I feel sooo cheated. No to all of the above except the loaner, which may be a RR or a buick or enterprise. The guy explained No deals on leases, which he claims RR will only give 30 month deals, but that if I want to buy he can get 5K off. I am pissed based on your experience. I was expecting to see a price such as you are describing, but no dice, even with the 07's coming next month. He told me that there will be a minimal increase in price (ie under 500.)

I would love for you to help me with the equation, though remember, I am not as fascile with spreadsheets as you. I am a simple neurosurgeon...


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

There are less expensive, but highly reliable alternatives to the Land Cruiser from Toyota. I've had very good experiences with their 4Runner in Central America, and the Prado in Pakistan doing a lot of offroad. I'm not sure, though, if they''re sold in the USA.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

bwep said:


> Wayfarer
> 
> I feel sooo cheated. No to all of the above except the loaner, which may be a RR or a buick or enterprise. The guy explained No deals on leases, which he claims RR will only give 30 month deals, but that if I want to buy he can get 5K off. I am pissed based on your experience. I was expecting to see a price such as you are describing, but no dice, even with the 07's coming next month. He told me that there will be a minimal increase in price (ie under 500.)
> 
> I would love for you to help me with the equation, though remember, I am not as fascile with spreadsheets as you. I am a simple neurosurgeon...


Neurosurgeon?! Why, one of each then!

The interest rate is the "money factor". Take the interest rate and divide by 2400 or conversely, if they give you a money factor, multiply by 2400 to see what interest they are charging you. Take the capitalized cost or "cap cost", which is the analog to the sale price, and add that to the residual. Multiply that by the money factor and you have your monthly interest portion. Take the cap cost and subtract the residual, divide that by the term of the lease, and you have your monthly depreciation. Add the two together and you have your lease price, sans applicable local taxes, licensing, etc.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Bwep, let us know what happened.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Wayfarer
I am so confused. I phoned the sister dealership and spoke to a salesman who seems more apt to deal. I am going out there tomorrow am. I will likely visit toyota this afternoon if nothing derails me. I am starting to get the itch for a new vehicle NOW rather than waiting two months for the completeion of my lease...


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

bwep said:


> Wayfarer
> I am so confused. I phoned the sister dealership and spoke to a salesman who seems more apt to deal. I am going out there tomorrow am. I will likely visit toyota this afternoon if nothing derails me. I am starting to get the itch for a new vehicle NOW rather than waiting two months for the completeion of my lease...


Heh, I know how that feels once you make up your mind for a new ride, you just can't feel right until the deal is done. You should have little problems getting out of that lease, two months is nothing for a dealership to get you out of. Keep us updated.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Wayfarer

I think that I have decided on the LR3. I went to the sister dealership last week and was treated better, but still very difficult to get them to budge on price. I will wait until next month. I went to three different Toyota dealerships, and while I really like the vehicle, the class or lack thereof of the salespeople is a real turnoff. I just feel like I am getting the "royal screw" at the Toyota dealers, not that that is also occurring at Land Rover. It is like going to purchase something at a department store ala Macy's versus a true gentleman's specialty store.


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## Khnelben (Feb 18, 2005)

*A great car...*

loved in Russia, by everyone - from the mafia to ordinary guys living outside of Moscow in the regions.

As you know the better version - Toyota Prado - better interior and softer on the weehls.

And of course there is the possibilty of going Lexus. But I heard that the latter is not so well made (in Canada) - the fusing etc. is a bit sloppy, so the LC is more proof.

Range Rovers keep breaking down - even new ones, but the Sport and Supercharged - that's a beauty car.

Perhaps the new GL? The old Gelendewagen - also a mafia favorite - love the car myself and spent a year riding it - some people say it's a bit hard on the road and over-turns easily on ice.

Andrey

Andrey


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Khnelben said:


> loved in Russia, by everyone - from the mafia to ordinary guys living outside of Moscow in the regions.
> 
> As you know the better version - Toyota Prado - better interior and softer on the weehls.
> 
> ...


I like the G500 better than the new GL. They are pricey, but very nice.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

The Land Cruiser is the best SUV, bar none. I drive one in the States and have driven them throughout the world. They are unbelievably reliable. They may lack the Daktari feel of the Land Rover or the staff car ride of the Mercedes, but I will always have one in my stable of cars.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Bwep:

Keep us posted, I am interested to find out what you finally land on.

To others:

No denying the Land Cruiser is a great vehicle. As I have identified, and think have had some agreement from others, the thing is, you do not just buy the vehicle. You buy the entire ownership experience. 

When the Nissan dealership did a front brake rotor recall on my truck it took me a two hour wait, in a crowded and noisy customer lounge where wild children ran unsupervised, to get a shuttle ride. Then at the end of the day the service people informed me they had "worked all day on the wrong truck" and I would have to come back tomorrow. After raising a ruckus, I was given a Chevy Geo to drive that night.

Since I took posession of my LR3 in August, the dealership has sponsored an off-road ride up a local mountain with a catered smoked rib BBQ lunch at the top and a ride up Kitt Peak to have run of the observatory for three hours. Both events complimentary. My service experience was an oil change and software update that took one hour and I spent my time in a lounge that would not look out of place in a high end hotel, complimentary everything, and blessed quiet while I waited. My Rover was presented to me freshly vacuumed and washed. If it needs to go into service overnight, my contract calls for a complimentary Rover or Jag to drive.

Now, I am only five months into a 39 month lease, but if this keeps up I might well get into the big Rover next time around. However, I do miss an open bed pick up. If Lexus does a Tundra version, I might be interested. How do others rate the Lexus ownership experience?


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## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Bwep:
> ...No denying the Land Cruiser is a great vehicle. As I have identified, and think have had some agreement from others, the thing is, you do not just buy the vehicle. You buy the entire ownership experience....


I agree. I've had a Land Cruiser look-alike... the Lexus LX470 - for nearly 3 years now and enjoy this big luxurious SUV immensely.

But it doesn't break down, so I never get to experience the great service that Lexus has built its reputation on.

So the answer is - get a reliable vehicle and you never need go to the dealership more than once or twice a year!


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Bwep, so what's the latest news?


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Way

I am sooo confused. My decision depends on the day. I will likely make a purchase of some sort in the next 10 days. I am on call until next Thursday so that my time is limited. 

In any event, I keep wondering if I really like the body of the LR3. I like the drive and the interior, but waver on the body. I cannot stand the new X5 body which makes leaving BMW all that much easier. I also hear questions about LR/RR reliability though not from truly firsthand informants like yourself. My favorite body style remains the Land Cruiser, though dealing with Toyota sales is soooo pleasant, not. I can imagine service. I have stayed away from Lexus b/c I am not sure that I like the stigma of the Lexus SUV ("pretty boy"). I probably should check them out. I go back and forth. I think of simple living in the mountain west (where I dream of and my wife is from NW Montana) and my brothers in law and the outdoor lifestyle and think maybe I should just do a 4 runner altogether. I dunno.

Thanks for wondering!


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

*SUV alternatives*

I don't think I ever saw why you were looking at SUV's, but there is an excellent chance that it isn't the best choice for you. In addition, the trouble you are having deciding may indicate that you really haven't found what you want yet, so there may be something better for you.

You might want to follow this link for help in deciding.

I've never driven a Range Rover or Land Rover. Although my radio hero, Jean Shepard, always used to advertise the Rover 2000 on his show on WOR, I've always liked this quote (I think it's from Neal Stephenson): "You really can't trust an Englishman to engineer anything much bigger than your hat, not if you really want it to work when you need it."


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

After reading the last post, buy the SUV with the lowest possible gas mileage!!


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Way

I broke down and went to Lexus. I drove the LX and GX and moved them both ahead of all other vehicles. The service of Lexus is second to none. The question will likely be whether I want the big moose (LX or land cruiser equivalent) or the smaller SUV. I am worse than a chic....


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## kmwrestle (Dec 8, 2006)

maybe im biased since i work for toyota....but ive driven the landcruiser a couple times and its really an amazing vehicle. if your in the new england area i can get you one..we even have a couple demos if your interested


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

bwep said:


> Way
> 
> I broke down and went to Lexus. I drove the LX and GX and moved them both ahead of all other vehicles. The service of Lexus is second to none. The question will likely be whether I want the big moose (LX or land cruiser equivalent) or the smaller SUV. I am worse than a chic....


Go with the LX! Otherwise you need to get some pearls and that helmet haircut of the 50 something female real estate broker


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## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

You won't regret buying an LX470. As a piece of reliable engineering, it's head and shoulders above the rest... especially Range Rover. 

As for the "pretty boy" stigma, my LX470 was previously owned by the general manager of Toyota here in our country (and I'm pretty good-looking as well  )

I don't know why the comments about gas mileage should influence your buying decision... when you buy a SUV that's the last thing on your shopping list. Like the often quoted "if you need to ask the prize of a Rolls-Royce, you can't afford it." Likewise tires - even driven moderately, the LX is hard on them. Mine only lasted one year.

But everything else is pure magic. I also have a Mercedes SL500, but most of the week I far prefer driving the Lexus.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> "You really can't trust an Englishman to engineer anything much bigger than your hat, not if you really want it to work when you need it."


Substitute in a minority of your choice for "Englishman" and watch the fun. Incredible how people that would never insult a minority have no problems doing it to "white" people.


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## Trommel (Sep 27, 2006)

kenz said:


> You won't regret buying an LX470. As a piece of reliable engineering, it's head and shoulders above the rest... especially Range Rover.


In terms of reliability - almost definitely. In terms of engineering - not by a long shot.

I appreciate the peerless Toyota reliability, but an L322 Range Rover is an immeasurably more desirable object.


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## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

Trommel said:


> ...I appreciate the peerless Toyota reliability, but an L322 Range Rover is an immeasurably more desirable object.


Are you talking style specifically? I agree - the Range Rover is a sophisticated design that plays nicely on the eye, but Toyota is engineered better.

And I've always been attracted by the LX470...it just has a distinctive look that sets it apart from any other SUV. The Lexus brand makes it unusual too, a requirement for my ownership. I believe they only make 7000 a year.


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## Trommel (Sep 27, 2006)

The Range Rover has more sophisticated engineering concepts (air suspension, Terrain Response etc.), albeit not as well executed as the simpler Land Cruiser.


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## johnjack11 (Oct 13, 2006)

This is where Lexus excels, once you are in the door it just feels right. Service is excellent, and you don't get that grimy dealership feeling when you purchase a car from them.

They are also bulet proof cars as well!

Good luck



bwep said:


> Way
> 
> I broke down and went to Lexus. I drove the LX and GX and moved them both ahead of all other vehicles. The service of Lexus is second to none. The question will likely be whether I want the big moose (LX or land cruiser equivalent) or the smaller SUV. I am worse than a chic....


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## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

Trommel said:


> The Range Rover has more sophisticated engineering concepts (air suspension, Terrain Response etc.), albeit not as well executed as the simpler Land Cruiser.


The Lexus has air suspension. But instead of terrain adjustment, it has a graduated ride comfort control. Since I and most of my legion will never venture off road (though I did mount a curb on purpose back in 2005), this is infinitely more practical.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I love the air suspension on my LR3. It has three settings. Access to it is low to the ground, easier acces, normal, and off road. You can only go over 25mph in normal, it will change to normal automatically from either of the other two over 25mph. The off road setting gives you about a foot of ground clearance. Also, at speeds over...I think it is 85 or 90mph, the vehicle lowers itself about 1.5 inches for lower center of gravity.

The off road computer of the LR3 is nice too. I get a graphical display of each tire and its articulation, which way the tires are turned, the pitch and yaw of the vehicle...pretty much everything you could want to off roading. The articulation part is really helpful, I try to stay out of high yaw situations.

There is also Hill Control Descent where you just push a button and do nothing but steer during a descent. It keeps you at a steady 5mph. Works in both forward or reverse and is great, I've tried it in both.


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## gregp (Aug 11, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Another vote for the Range Rover Sport...I'd deffinately give it a good look if I were you...I like the LR3...but if youre going to shell out the cash for one of those or a Toyota Land Cruiser, I'd deffinately consider spending a bit more and getting the Range, I've ridden in all 3 and must say that the Range is by far the most luxurious, but from what I understand (and I've never had the opportunity to test this theory), the Range Rover is one of the most capable off-road SUVs commercially available...


I don't really think this is true. Most if not all of the SUVs that have been discussed are poor choices for anything that approaches moderate to serious off-road work. The Range Rover with 19" tires, air suspension, computer controlled everything, and a near 100K price tag isn't something that I'd buy for that purpose. If you really want a Land Rover that looks sharp in town and can double for moderate to serious off road use, the last LR model I'd put in that category is the 04 Discovery. Its smaller than some of the other SUVs, but with 16" tires, it was pretty much the most capable SUV on the market stock at the time. Due to the sharp depreciation that Land Rovers suffer from, you can usually find one in great shape for a low price.


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## gregp (Aug 11, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> I love the air suspension on my LR3. It has three settings. Access to it is low to the ground, easier acces, normal, and off road. You can only go over 25mph in normal, it will change to normal automatically from either of the other two over 25mph. The off road setting gives you about a foot of ground clearance. Also, at speeds over...I think it is 85 or 90mph, the vehicle lowers itself about 1.5 inches for lower center of gravity.
> 
> The off road computer of the LR3 is nice too. I get a graphical display of each tire and its articulation, which way the tires are turned, the pitch and yaw of the vehicle...pretty much everything you could want to off roading. The articulation part is really helpful, I try to stay out of high yaw situations.
> 
> There is also Hill Control Descent where you just push a button and do nothing but steer during a descent. It keeps you at a steady 5mph. Works in both forward or reverse and is great, I've tried it in both.


HCD is one of the best features in the Land Rover line in my opinion. I've used it off road in controlled situations (Land Rover driving school course) and on different kinds of terrain in the US and Europe. Its kept me under control on super steep slopes; its almost like magic. The key thing to remember is that if you start to slip, you need to hit the gas, not the brake!


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I think I need to go over the Rover line up again after reading some posts.

1) LR3. Least luxurious relatively speaking, least expenisve (fully loaded, MSRP ~57k), one of the best off road vehicles on the road yet still a luxury SUV with great road manners.
2) RR Sport. Same platform as the LR3. About 75K MSRP. More luxurious. Less room, including considerably less wide through the seats. Available supercharged engine. Still some impressive off road abilities.
3) Ranger Rover. Biggest of the three. About 100k MSRP. Most luxurious. Least off road capable but still head and shoulders above an Escalade or the like in that area. I would not buy for off roading.

Depreciation is actually not bad. It is hurt no doubt by reliability claims and limited market demographic, i.e. rappers are not beating down the doors for that cachet (yet!). On my 39 month lease, 52% residual. The GL Mercedes I looked at was better, 64% at 39 months, but the average car is about 40%.


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## Trommel (Sep 27, 2006)

The Range Rover is every bit as good as the Discovery/LR3 off-road, but remember a lot of off-road ability is down to tyre choice.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Trommel said:


> The Range Rover is every bit as good as the Discovery/LR3 off-road, but remember a lot of off-road ability is down to tyre choice.


I agree about the tire choice. However, I have to point out approach and departure angles and wheelbase vs. ground clearance (too big a ratio leads to getting "beached")


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Way

My decision is imminent. I have decided to go the Lexus route, primarily b/c of service. The rover dealer here in dallas will not committ to anything more than a Geo or enterprise rental should I need a vehicle, whereas, both Lexus dealers here in town gurantee a Lexus and offer pick up and drop off of vehicles and of the loaners. The issue remains the GX versus the LX. I still hav always loved the Land Cruiser and salivate with the LX. It is amazing that of 4 different Toyota dealers that i went to, the price on the LX was comprable and even better than one. Un-freaken believable. At any rate, wife prefers the smaller vehicle and questions the need for the larger. I agree with many out here that it seems that the GX is a soccer mom's vehicle more than daddy's car. My decison will be made this week...


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

bwep said:


> Way
> 
> My decision is imminent. I have decided to go the Lexus route, primarily b/c of service. The rover dealer here in dallas will not committ to anything more than a Geo or enterprise rental should I need a vehicle, whereas, both Lexus dealers here in town gurantee a Lexus and offer pick up and drop off of vehicles and of the loaners. The issue remains the GX versus the LX. I still hav always loved the Land Cruiser and salivate with the LX. It is amazing that of 4 different Toyota dealers that i went to, the price on the LX was comprable and even better than one. Un-freaken believable. At any rate, wife prefers the smaller vehicle and questions the need for the larger. I agree with many out here that it seems that the GX is a soccer mom's vehicle more than daddy's car. My decison will be made this week...


Let us know Bwep. I fully agree making a decision based on service, it was what drove me to a large extent. I vote the big one though, that GX is such a 55 year old blonde female real estate agent vehicle.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Way

I agree. I need some good reasons to justify it to my wife. Though, I did explain that the LC and its equivalent are really what I have wanted for years...


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Bwep,

I think the advice my father gave me about women is appropriate - it's easier to ask forgiveness than it is permission. Buy the LX and then take Mrs. Bwep to Northpark in for the day!

Karl


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Karl

Wish it were that easy. She hates to shop. I'm the one with the bad habits...


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Way and Karl

I am awaiting arrival of an LX this or next week. I finally got the approval from the boss (wife) to get it over the GX. Very excited.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Sweet! We want pics


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

I own a Disco II for daily use and it has been a pain in the rear but I stubbornly wouldn't replace it. The LR3, IMO, is too much of an effeminate luxury SUV and a fancy shell of the former Disco I & II. 

The Toyota LC/ Lexus LX are as reliable as you can ask for and if that is really what you WANT, then go for it.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Asterix said:


> I own a Disco II for daily use and it has been a pain in the rear but I stubbornly wouldn't replace it. *The LR3, IMO, is too much of an effeminate luxury SUV and a fancy shell of the former Disco I & II. *
> 
> The Toyota LC/ Lexus LX are as reliable as you can ask for and if that is really what you WANT, then go for it.


Wow, much hate. My LR3 seems to climb better than a Disco I or II, that has not been modified, on all club rides I go to. It is certainly far faster with more torque and load ability. It's looks are understated in relation to any other luxury SUV, i.e. Lexus, Escalade, etc. Why the hate?


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## Trommel (Sep 27, 2006)

The LR3/new Disco is every bit as accomplished as the old ones were off-road, and immeasurably better on. 

It also isn't embarrassing to be seen in, unlike most of the competition.


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Wow, much hate. My LR3 seems to climb better than a Disco I or II, that has not been modified, on all club rides I go to. It is certainly far faster with more torque and load ability. It's looks are understated in relation to any other luxury SUV, i.e. Lexus, Escalade, etc. Why the hate?


What you term as "hate", I call personal opinion especially since I currently own a Disco II and had previously owned a Disco I of which I drove as work vehicles almost daily.

I said I wouldn't buy it because it doesn't APPEAL to ME and it looks and feels EFFEMINATE to ME so I wouldn't be wasting MY hard earned 50K+ on one and even when my wife test drove the LR3 as a possible replacement for her A8L, she said it just doesn't cut it when compared to the Disco I & II.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Asterix said:


> What you term as "hate", I call personal opinion especially since I currently own a Disco II and had previously owned a Disco I of which I drove as work vehicles almost daily.
> 
> I said I wouldn't buy it because it doesn't APPEAL to ME and it looks and feels EFFEMINATE to ME so I wouldn't be wasting MY hard earned 50K+ on one and even when my wife test drove the LR3 as a possible replacement for her A8L, she said it just doesn't cut it when compared to the Disco I & II.


You are being too literal. It is a phrase I hear in common parlance today. "Don't hate" or "much hate" when someone expresses a disklike. While I agree there can be no arguing over tastes, the term "fancy shell" however goes over to judgement. As stated, I will put my stock LR3 up against any stock Disco I or II and come out the winner. I know this from doing it multiple times on Rover sponsored off road rides in the Arizona.


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> You are being too literal. It is a phrase I hear in common parlance today. "Don't hate" or "much hate" when someone expresses a disklike. While I agree there can be no arguing over tastes, the term "fancy shell" however goes over to judgement. As stated, I will put my stock LR3 up against any stock Disco I or II and come out the winner. I know this from doing it multiple times on Rover sponsored off road rides in the Arizona.


My apologies for being to literal.

"Fancy Shell" of the good old Boxy Disco I & II is what I see the new LR3 as being. The LR3 comes with more gadgets that can go wrong especially for a vehicle that has a history of problems even when it was BMW owned not to talk of now that it is a FORD vehicle. :icon_smile_big:

I'll admit that I have never done any off roading in Arizona (my off roading is usually climbing through snow banks :icon_smile_big: ) but I personally just don't like the cutesy looks of the new LR3.


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## gregp (Aug 11, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> You are being too literal. It is a phrase I hear in common parlance today. "Don't hate" or "much hate" when someone expresses a disklike. While I agree there can be no arguing over tastes, the term "fancy shell" however goes over to judgement. As stated, I will put my stock LR3 up against any stock Disco I or II and come out the winner. I know this from doing it multiple times on Rover sponsored off road rides in the Arizona.


I think the LR3 is a better on-road vehicle and looks are in the eye of the beholder, so not worth addressing here. I guess it depends where you are going to use it, but I don't agree on the off-road side. I looked at both very carefully with an eye toward serious back country use when the year the LR3 was introduced. Between the fact that the LR3 is larger, much more oriented toward electronics (its very swampy where I live) and relies on an air suspension, which a) I don't think is reliable and b) I can't seem to use effectively compared to a solid axle for crawling over rocks, it was pretty much a no-brainer for me. Stock: I can't imagine stock LR3s with those large wheels/thin tires are something that you can use on Arizona rocks. Same for the DII with 18 inchers on the SE/HSE lines.

Anyway, no one is going to change anyone's mind here, but I thought I'd put in a "non-haters" rationale for preferring the DII for back country. To be honest, if they were maintainable, I might prefer the DI for back country: it's shorter tail improves the departure angle.

Having said all that,the LR3 is a cool car and completely overkill for 99.9999% of the population.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Yes, the stock tires are certainly the limiting factor on the LR3, I totally agree with that. While I have had it since 8/06 with zero problems, I am already itching for something faster again. I am eye'ing that new Tundra as it seems to be even faster than my Titan was, and that was an outrageously fast truck.

Edit: Forgot to add, mine has lockers grep, factory lockers. Not that I do much which requires that as this is a lease and "Arizona Pinstriping" is something I intend to avoid.


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## Trommel (Sep 27, 2006)

I completely agree about the overkill suggestion - a tiny fraction of a percentage of owners will get near the vehicle's capabilities off-road.

I also agree about the low profile tyres, but that's marketing for you, and it's US-led. We have mud rather than rocks over here, but it's the same argument.

I was surprised to see that the independently-sprung RRs have as much axle articulation as the old solid-axle ones.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Way

I picked it up this morning. Black with gray interior. The LX is what I did. Unbelieveable, that I was able to get it for a little less than the Land Cruiser. Toyota dealerships in DFW should be embarrassed....


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

bwep said:


> Way
> 
> I picked it up this morning. Black with gray interior. The LX is what I did. Unbelieveable, that I was able to get it for a little less than the Land Cruiser. Toyota dealerships in DFW should be embarrassed....


Bwep:

Excellent news, good on you! Sounds like you got a great price and I am sure you'll enjoy it immensely. Keep us updated on both the vehicle and service.

We are up in Flagstaff right now at our favorite B&B. Resting up for dinner and then drinks out after some off-roading here just now. I was also able to try out all kinds of things on the Rover I never thought I'd get to try in Tucson, such as the electric front windshield defrost and the heated seats


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

Wayfarer

Enjoy!!!!

B


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## socal80 (Feb 14, 2007)

I have been big fan of land cruisers for a few years now. If you like to get more info you can check out the following forum:

ih8mud.com

Hope that helps!


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