# contrasting collar and cuff



## Dr. Hanley (Sep 9, 2014)

what are your feelings on wearing a light blue end on end blue body cloth shirt with white French cuffs and collar?


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

With a suit it is an elegant look.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Dr. Hanley said:


> what are your feelings on wearing a light blue end on end blue body cloth shirt with white French cuffs and collar?


I like that style. The only place I'd caution against wearing it would be in the workplace, provided it would elicit negative responses from people who are vital to your career advancement. Otherwise, wear it if you like it.

Some people might grumble, "Nah--too 1980s." Ignore them. Life's short. I agree with Steve Smith's comment that the look is "elegant."


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## Dr. Hanley (Sep 9, 2014)

Charles Dana said:


> I like that style. The only place I'd caution against wearing it would be in the workplace, provided it would elicit negative responses from people who are vital to your career advancement. Otherwise, wear it if you like it.
> 
> Some people might grumble, "Nah--too 1980s." Ignore them. Life's short. I agree with Steve Smith's comment that the look is "elegant."


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## Dr. Hanley (Sep 9, 2014)

Current troubles aside, I have thought that Robert Kraft's looks is good, both in suits and in sportswear, sans the Nike's. He is about 14 years older than me, but I do like the look.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

It's a handsome classic that dresses up any elegant suit with which you wear it. It's 2nd in formality/dressiness to a white shirt, and more so than a shirt that's just colored. Have worn such for 40+ years.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

Flanderian said:


> It's a handsome classic that dresses up any elegant suit with which you wear it. It's 2nd in formality/dressiness to a white shirt, and more so than a shirt that's just colored. Have worn such for 40+ years.
> 
> View attachment 28904


Interesting picture. He removes his right glove to hold his cane, but leaves left on to smoke a cigarette ...


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Kyle76 said:


> Interesting picture. He removes his right glove to hold his cane, but leaves left on to smoke a cigarette ...


I regularly see in movies from the '30s - '50s women smoking cigarettes with white gloves on. I have to assume that a lot of cleaning and replacement costs were associated with such behavior.

It all seems crazy to me, but smoking was - based on movies and other evidence - insanely popular then and, my guess, all the downsides were just accepted.

My dad smoked until the early '70s (I was about 8 when he stopped) and, then, we cleaned the house of all the smoke layers and painted - it was incredible how much "gunk" was on everything (that you didn't even notice) until he stopped and we were able to really, truly freshen the house up.

It was a lot of work, but when we were done, the house looked and smelled ten-times better and with much, much less effort than before, stayed that way now that no one smoked in the house.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

Both of my parents smoked when I was growing up, though they both quit later in life. We never even thought about it, but now if I come home from a party where I've been around smokers, I have to take a shower and wash the smell out of my hair.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Kyle76 said:


> Interesting picture. He removes his right glove to hold his cane, but leaves left on to smoke a cigarette ...


He doesn't want those yellow nicotine stains on his fingers. 

As a guy who smoked for 16 years before quitting about 35 years ago, those yellow stains on your fingers nicely matched those upon your teeth. (Windows, drapes, etc.)

Just some of the lovely added pleasures of the pastime!


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

I’m a fan of the contrasting collar/cuffs. I don’t think it’s dated in the least bit, but I agree with others, it’s best left to wearing with a suit. 

Also, my preference is for the primary shirt color to be on the lighter side so the contrast is not too bold.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

I love the look, even in the workplace if you are an investment banker or one of their advisors. Pair it with an Hermès or Ferragamo tie that really pops.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> I'm a fan of the contrasting collar/cuffs. I don't think it's dated in the least bit, but I agree with others, it's best left to wearing with a suit.
> 
> Also, my preference is for the primary shirt color to be on the lighter side so the contrast is not too bold.


Agreed, though I will also sometimes wear it with a navy blazer, particularly in summer when a smart summer tie with the crisp contrasts of the shirt and blazer can look somewhat fresh and summery. (Yes, I just typed summery! Yuck! )


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## JBierly (Jul 4, 2012)

Dr. Hanley said:


> Current troubles aside, I have thought that Robert Kraft's looks is good, both in suits and in sportswear, sans the Nike's. He is about 14 years older than me, but I do like the look.


Yes, but lose the monster cuff links!


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## JBierly (Jul 4, 2012)

I also consider the white collar and either blue or pink shirt body to a fairly elegant look.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

"Wall Street" with Michael Douglas (1987). Not my style, but hey, it's an option.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Options:

Red end-on-end -

I had a similar shirt made from a hairline stripe. It is actually light red, not pink. Try it with a silver satin tie with a chalkstripe charcoal suit. Try it with a discreet blue madder paisley and a navy suit, or a light grey one.

Stripes can be nice too -









I also liked club collars, though mine had eyelets for a collar pin, rather than a tab. Nice blue end-on-end stripe.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I don't care for the white collar and cuffs on shirts that are not white. It is jarring to me. It's almost like you are trying to show the world you are "stylish" and a bit too showy; at least for me.

Obviously, there are some who disagree.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Over the years I have included a grand total of two contrasting collar and cuff shirts in my wardrobe (as I can recall). The shirts were seldom worn and were eventually culled from my closet. They were just a bit too flashy for my circumstances and perhaps also my tastes, but I have seen others wear them who looked rather good while doing so. :icon_scratch:


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> Over the years I have included a grand total of two contrasting collar and cuff shirts in my wardrobe (as I can recall). The shirts were seldom worn and were eventually culled from my closet. They were just a bit too flashy for my circumstances and perhaps also my tastes, but I have seen others wear them who looked rather good while doing so. :icon_scratch:


I had the same experience, a burgundy Bengal stripe and a blue Bengal stripe. While I like the look on others, it just wasn't "me".


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> Over the years I have included a grand total of two contrasting collar and cuff shirts in my wardrobe (as I can recall). The shirts were seldom worn and were eventually culled from my closet. They were just a bit too flashy for my circumstances and perhaps also my tastes, but I have seen others wear them who looked rather good while doing so. :icon_scratch:


I've had a few more than that but not many. My favorites were pale pink with white. They marked the dark years when Brooks Brothers, as it had been all my life, had ceased to exist, and the advent of shopping on the internet, where bastions of traditional dress could still be found.


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## TerryM (Jan 30, 2018)

I think it makes a bold statement. Do you need to make a bold statement?


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

TerryM said:


> I think it makes a bold statement. Do you need to make a bold statement?


Two interesting sentences here. But the crucial middle sentence is missing; allow me to supply it:

"Do you agree with my opinion that it makes a bold statement?"

If the answer to the missing question is "No, I don't agree that it makes a bold statement," then the last question ("Do you need to make a bold statement?") is moot.

If the answer to the missing question is "Yes, I agree that it makes a bold statement," then here are some reasonable follow-up questions:

"Do you need to make a bold statement?" [Already asked]
"Do you want to make a bold statement?"
"Will anybody be harmed if you make a bold statement?"
"Is it illegal to use clothing to make a bold statement?"
"Is it immoral to use clothing to make a bold statement?"
"Will you derive some degree of happiness by making a bold statement?"

The only time you need to dress like you're going to a funeral is when you're going to a funeral. You live once and you live short. So lighten up while you can. And don't over-analyze clothing.

OP, wear the dang shirt. And enjoy it.


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## TerryM (Jan 30, 2018)

Charles Dana said:


> Two interesting sentences here. But the crucial middle sentence is missing; allow me to supply it:
> 
> "Do you agree with my opinion that it makes a bold statement?"
> 
> ...


Thanks for saying the things I didn't know I needed to say and didn't intend to say. What Gus was trying to say is "My opinion (I think) is that it makes a bold statement. So if you think that is possible, is the setting right? Don't wear it in a more casual setting. You'll look douchey. Again, I think.


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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

I can understand that opinions vary and to be honest, I have to chalk it up to a case by case basis. I find this to be like many things people try to incorporate into their wardrobe. When done correctly (usually conservatively) I have seen it work. However, I would consider this type of shirt one not well worn by most style rookies. I think it is easier done poorly and when done poorly you can look like a caricature of the eighties. 
If you have moved up well past beginner style level then by all means give it a shot. 
I do agree with much of the above that it is a more formal look best paired with a suit or blazer.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

:lol:

If you *can* wear it, and like it, wear it!

If you can't wear it, or don't like it, don't!

Vade in pace! :icon_saint7kg:


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## JBierly (Jul 4, 2012)

Certainly some varied opinions here. Perhaps not everyone has the sartorial personality to wear a white collar/cuff with a contrasting shirt color. I don't find it over the top by any means and if done well with a conservative suit it can give an outfit a bit more color and yet still maintain some formality. I do think that if it's all you wear it might become a bit idiosyncratic.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

JBierly said:


> Certainly some varied opinions here. Perhaps not everyone has the sartorial personality to wear a white collar/cuff with a contrasting shirt color. I don't find it over the top by any means and if done well with a conservative suit it can give an outfit a bit more color and yet still maintain some formality. I do think that if it's all you wear it might become a bit idiosyncratic.


I agree completely. If it's your regular look, people will think you are trying to be Gordon Gecko. I still remember that at that time the uniform was a sharp, dark suit, a pointed pressed white pocket handkerchief, garish suspenders, the colored shirt with white cuffs and collar, a Hermès tie with some hot pink and ultramarine, black Gucci bit loafers, and unparted slicked back hair. I don't know any of those guys who hung onto that look, but now and then it is kind of fun.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

TKI67 said:


> I agree completely. If it's your regular look, people will think you are trying to be Gordon Gecko. I still remember that at that time the uniform was a sharp, dark suit, a pointed pressed white pocket handkerchief, garish suspenders, the colored shirt with white cuffs and collar, a Hermès tie with some hot pink and ultramarine, black Gucci bit loafers, and unparted slicked back hair. I don't know any of those guys who hung onto that look, but now and then it is kind of fun.


Today's hoodie wearers are yesterday's Gordon Geckos.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

I think it's a faux look in that it began as a sensible idea, a detachable collar and cuff for seperate washing and replacement for the parts most exposed to friction and dirt, then morphed into the stylistic convention of later times, like sedans you sometimes see with a cloth covering to emulate a nonexistent convertible. Neither for me.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

JBierly said:


> Certainly some varied opinions here. Perhaps not everyone has the sartorial personality to wear a white collar/cuff with a contrasting shirt color. I don't find it over the top by any means and if done well with a conservative suit it can give an outfit a bit more color and yet still maintain some formality. I do think that if it's all you wear it might become a bit idiosyncratic.


Though none of the gentle. . . , er, goodfellas below are actually wearing a contrast collar, I think this might be the effect about which some are concerned.

One day, about 25 years ago, when channeling my inner Ray Liotta, I approximated: I had a shirt with black bengal stripes with a white spread collar and white French cuffs. And wore it with a Paul Stuart woven silk tie with many colors, but predominantly wine, in an intricate arabesque pattern. The suit was my peak lapel SB made of lighter grey sharkskin from Scabal. PS was white swiss cotton with maroon edging, 3 points up.


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

In the office I wear a suit two to three times per week and sport coat and slacks on my less busy days. Contrast collar French Cuff shirts have been a favorite of mine for years. When you wear suits regularly, making it special takes a bit more effort. I find these shirts do the trick. I currently have contrast collar shirts in light blue, lavender, light grey, and white with grey stripes.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> Though none of the gentle. . . , er, goodfellas below are actually wearing a contrast collar, I think this might be the effect about which some are concerned.
> 
> One day, about 25 years ago, when channeling my inner Ray Liotta, I approximated: I had a shirt with black bengal stripes with a white spread collar and white French cuffs. And wore it with a Paul Stuart woven silk tie with many colors, but predominantly wine, in an intricate arabesque pattern. The suit was my peak lapel SB made of lighter grey sharkskin from Scabal. PS was white swiss cotton with maroon edging, 3 points up.


I actually much prefer the men's dress wear and formal wear in Casino to that in Goodfellas. In Goodfellas, the suits and dress shirts were all made to measure by Brioni and it looked too tight on the guys wearing it because they're too big for it. The made to order Italian style dress shoes (by which brand I don't know) also looked skimpy on their big feet.

In Casino, the dress shirts were bespoke by Anto and the suits were bespoke by a high end tailor in the Los Angeles metropolitan area (I don't know by who). The dress shoes were also bespoke (I also don't know by who, but I know it was by an English maker). All the clothing and shoes in Casino fit the men perfectly.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Totally against the look, and not because it recalls an earlier decade. I just think it's jarring to not have the entire shirt made of the same fabric.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

jackmccullough said:


> Totally against the look, and not because it recalls an earlier decade. I just think it's jarring to not have the entire shirt made of the same fabric.


Sorry but I have to disagree. I believe it can be quite harmonious.


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## JBierly (Jul 4, 2012)

Peak and Pine said:


> I think it's a faux look in that it began as a sensible idea, a detachable collar and cuff for seperate washing and replacement for the parts most exposed to friction and dirt, then morphed into the stylistic convention of later times, like sedans you sometimes see with a cloth covering to emulate a nonexistent convertible. Neither for me.


How about a Landau top - only thing this T-bird is missing is the gangsta' whitewalls!


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> Though none of the gentle. . . , er, goodfellas below are actually wearing a contrast collar, I think this might be the effect about which some are concerned.


Where could you even buy a shirt with those ridiculous collars?


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

SG_67 said:


> Sorry but I have to disagree. I believe it can be quite harmonious.












How so, in that the collar matches the coffee cup?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

jackmccullough said:


> Where could you even buy a shirt with those ridiculous collars?


Well, certainly Sy Devore could handle it, but for the full flavor, you might have to visit Sally B's of Moonachie! :icon_saint7kg:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Other useful variations -

The white club collar suits some fellows, not others. I had my shirtmaker *slightly* elongate mine for better proportion. Once had a white club collar on a pale pink check, very nice for dressing up for summer. This example is so-so, the overall ensemble uninspiring, but it gives you an idea of the effect.










A handsome version for those whom the colors flatter, I found it requires a more sober tie. Navy, obviously, but also discreet patterns in mid-blue, solid pale yellow or a black solid knit or grenadine for a dramatic contrast with a grey suit.










But a favorite, and most versatile was a yellow-favored ecru with a white collar. The shirt below is lighter yellow, and nice of itself, but an ecru is paler and very subtle, and in that lies its versatility.


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## ItalianStyle (Mar 13, 2017)

So, those of you who don't mind these shirts (myself included), how do you feel about the white collar only (as in Flanderian's first picture) as opposed to white collar *and *cuffs?


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## derum (Dec 29, 2008)

jackmccullough said:


> Where could you even buy a shirt with those ridiculous collars?


https://www.zootsuitstore.com/Shopping/Catalog/product_detail.asp?ProductCode=DS1760A
If you really want one


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

ItalianStyle said:


> So, those of you who don't mind these shirts (myself included), how do you feel about the white collar only (as in Flanderian's first picture) as opposed to white collar *and *cuffs?


I prefer the cuffs match the collar, but if I otherwise love the shirt, I wouldn't kick it out of bed if they don't.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)




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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

ItalianStyle said:


> So, those of you who don't mind these shirts (myself included), how do you feel about the white collar only (as in Flanderian's first picture) as opposed to white collar *and *cuffs?


I don't have shirts like those right now, but I've had them and have liked them.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

SG_67 said:


>


First thing I thought of when I read the caption for this thread!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

A potpourri -


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

ItalianStyle said:


> So, those of you who don't mind these shirts (myself included), how do you feel about the white collar only (as in Flanderian's first picture) as opposed to white collar *and *cuffs?


I have a light blue check with white collar only. And not only are the cuffs the same pattern as the shirt, but they're not even French cuffs. Its not my favorite but it fits well and the subtle pattern is quite nice. The rest of them are white collar and cuffs.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Troones said:


> I have a light blue check with white collar only. And not only are the cuffs the same pattern as the shirt, but they're not even French cuffs. Its not my favorite but it fits well and the subtle pattern is quite nice. The rest of them are white collar and cuffs.


Nothing wrong with that in my book. Paul Stuart has long done a shirt with what they term a tea-stained collar (Tan or ecru as you might wish to call it.) and a multi-colored striped body with regular notched cuffs of the same cloth as the body.

Looks just dandy!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

A whole wide world of delightful possibility -


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Collars and cuffs should match; see: trying too hard.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

For budding Gatsby's only! 

Don't try this at home, kids! 




























Shirts are courtesy of Daniel Levy, bespoke shirtmaker, Paris. One of the remarkable aspects of M. Levy's shirts is the array of collar styles he can create that vary one from the other in endless significant detail, often at aesthetic poles, but each with absolute mastery.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

⇧ The top shirt has one of my favorite collars - the stud tab with short collar points. IMHO, it creates a beautifully crisp, sharp but simple aesthetic where everything looks neat and tight with the tie's knot "popping" forward a bit.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ The top shirt has one of my favorite collars - the stud tab with short collar points. IMHO, it creates a beautifully crisp, sharp but simple aesthetic where everything looks neat and tight with the tie's knot "popping" forward a bit.


A vintage collar design with so many essential details incorporated. The stud as you noted. And the collar is very small, but comparatively high for it's size. M. Levy varies tie space as required and/or desired. But while many of his collars are locked, or nearly so, this has almost an inch of tie space. And it needs it, as absent that space, the very small collar would allow almost no space for the knot. Similarly, most of his collars employ a curved tab for the top button, whereas this one is cut straight across, as a curved one wouldn't look right with so much tie space.

The devil is in the details! :devil:


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> A vintage collar design with so many essential details incorporated. The stud as you noted. And it's very small, but comparatively high for it's size. And M. Levy varies tie space as required and/or desired. But while many of his collars are locked, or nearly so, this has almost an inch of tie space. And it needs it, as absent that space, the very small collar would allow almost no space for the knot. Similarly, most of his collars employ a curved tab for the top button, whereas this one is cut straight across, as a curved one wouldn't work properly with so much tie space.
> 
> The devil is in the details! :devil:


⇧ That is a masterclass in shirt collar education - thank you. It's that knowledge and attention to those details (as you note) that takes ones attire to the next level. When you do those things, you have an outfit that others realize is really nice and well done, even if they don't know why.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I quite like the look. I have one such shirt, made to my order by Mercer, with bold blue and white stripes and the white collar and cuffs. I consider it a classic look, if a bit flashy, and I like having the shirt, but truth be told, I have only worn it a couple of times in the four years or so that I've had it. Once was to a wedding reception for one of my wife's nieces. A fellow there pronounced me "one of the two best dressed men at the reception," the other being my stepson, who was dressed largely under my influence and entirely at my expense!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

JLibourel said:


> I quite like the look. I have one such shirt, made to my order by Mercer, with bold blue and white stripes and the white collar and cuffs. I consider it a classic look, if a bit flashy, and I like having the shirt, but truth be told, I have only worn it a couple of times in the four years or so that I've had it. Once was to a wedding reception for one of my wife's nieces. A fellow there pronounced me "one of the two best dressed men at the reception," the other being my stepson, who was dressed largely under my influence and entirely at my expense!


Sounds like a very handsome shirt. And while some men make such shirts their daily choice and do it well, for me bolder options are innately celebratory, and the right sort of special occasion the perfect venue.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

It's showtime!

You wouldn't, I won't, but someone did. Lovely cloth, but, ah, a bit *bright!* Worthy of Merkin in his prime. Love the collar! A higher tab with artfully rounded points!










Lovely soft blue end-on-end -










Gorgeous antique blue and brown stripe. Can be worn with so many things.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

⇧ there was a subset of Wall Street dressers - those going beyond the sartorial canon - who were wearing that first shirt in the '80s.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ there was a subset of Wall Street dressers - those going beyond the sartorial canon - who were wearing that first shirt in the '80s.


I've worn brighter shirts in what I've hoped was appropriate context, but not quite that bright, or that color. Nothing wrong with it per se, but requires the exactly right appurtenances, occasion and guy to pull it off.

But I do think the collar is a marvel that would offer remarkable style to a longer necked gent with the right head.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Another beautiful antique stripe -










Imperial oxford -


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Flanderian said:


> Another beautiful antique stripe -
> 
> View attachment 29316
> 
> ...


I really like that top shirt.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> I really like that top shirt.


Yes, truly marvelous! I would buy it today if I had a shirtmaker + $$$ + youth! 

I know this is anathema to most, but this same stripe in black would work very well too as a more dramatic choice for a shirt body with a white collar. I like grey stripes, but they've always looked dreadful on me, for some reason, black work.


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Flanderian said:


> Another beautiful antique stripe -
> 
> View attachment 29316
> 
> ...


Just beautiful. I know many on here don't care for the contrast collar/cuffs look, and that's fair enough. What some don't consider though, is how even a very mild contrast can make that white collar "pop" and help you stand out in a crowd. One of my favorites is a very light grey. In some photos, you can't even tell that it's a contrast as such. But that white collar just stands out in the best possible way.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Troones said:


> Just beautiful. I know many on here don't care for the contrast collar/cuffs look, and that's fair enough. What some don't consider though, is how even a very mild contrast can make that white collar "pop" and help you stand out in a crowd. One of my favorites is a very light grey. In some photos, you can't even tell that it's a contrast as such. But that white collar just stands out in the best possible way.


+1.

Except for the light grey. Light grey is a marvelous choice for the right coloring, but just the wrong one for me. Odd in a way, as grey suits do fine by me. :icon_scratch: The suitability, or lack thereof of grey shirts for a fellow is so subtle in relation to their coloring that I can't even offer general suggestions. I started to offer my experiences and realized that for each principle there are sufficient exceptions as to make it invalid. Very much on a case by case basis.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Regarding the shirts being discussed in this thread: I like how they look. I just do. But I am also fond of them for a practical reason: I really like the contrast between a solid, bright white shirt collar and the collar of a very dark suit jacket. The same goes for the contrast between white shirt cuffs and dark jacket sleeves. Yet a solid white shirt, day after day, can get boring. The shirts presently under discussion enable one to maintain the pleasing contrast between a shirt's collar and cuffs and a dark jacket, yet still have a shirt that has pizzazz.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Charles Dana said:


> Regarding the shirts being discussed in this thread: I like how they look. I just do. But I am also fond of them for a practical reason: I really like the contrast between a solid, bright white shirt collar and the collar of a very dark suit jacket. The same goes for the contrast between white shirt cuffs and dark jacket sleeves. Yet a solid white shirt, day after day, can get boring. The shirts presently under discussion enable one to maintain the pleasing contrast between a shirt's collar and cuffs and a dark jacket, yet still have a shirt that has pizzazz.


+1.

I think this stripe handsome, but obviously bold, and find the colors sporting in character. Speaks of pairing with a tan suit for me. Maybe a herringbone tweed, or a gabardine for the spring.










A contrast so subtle you might at first think it one color. Like both collars, but particularly the rounder tab above. This one with a curved spread is similar to a design Paul Stuart sold for years, and of which my shirtmaker produced a version.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Another beautiful antique stripe, lavender and grey -










Pale blue butcher stripe with a handsome tab collar. I'd wear this with a subtle light grey glen check for the warmer seasos -


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Covered buttons -


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Used to love to wear shirt collars pinned, and had my shirtmaker provide eyelets for the purpose, as below. Though I'd need to have them placed slightly higher on the collar. Should that be insufficient for tie space, I'd opt for a slightly longer collar.


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## richard warren (Dec 10, 2015)

One advantage of contrasting collars and cuffs is that they show wear later. Modern colored shirts show wear (i.e., white material underlying the collar) at the point of the collar way too soon. This used to not be the case.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
As one alleged to be tighter than two coats of paint (read cheap!), I wear most of my shirts to the extreme and must say in my experience with BB OCBD's, it takes quite some time and a whole lot of wearings before the collars on said shirts visible fray. How are you laundering your shirts? :icon_scratch:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Extroverts only!

No doubt about it, these stripes are purple; purple awning stripes.

Artful round collar with several notable particulars, doubtless to the client's preferences.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Hmm . . . . ? :icon_scratch:

Now this merchant of shirtings (Acorn) describes the width of the stripe below as a butcher stripe, the term by which I knew it, before double checking earlier concerning the purple stripe which was generally described as an awning stripe. Don't know if the terms are interchangeable, or I'm simply not ale to discern the difference.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> Hmm . . . . ? :icon_scratch:
> 
> Now this merchant of shirtings (Acorn) describes the width of the stripe below as a butcher stripe, the term by which I knew it, before double checking earlier concerning the purple stripe which was generally described as an awning stripe. Don't know if the terms are interchangeable, or I'm simply not ale to discern the difference.
> 
> View attachment 29589


Those look like candy stripes to me.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Audi S5 TC said:


> Those look like candy stripes to me.


Candy stripes are thinner. See link below -

https://www.whtshirtmakers.com/blogs/news/a-guide-to-striped-shirts










Edit: And Acorn on the issue -


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> Candy stripes are thinner. See link below -
> 
> https://www.whtshirtmakers.com/blogs/news/a-guide-to-striped-shirts
> 
> ...


Often the bengal stripe and candy stripe definitions are reversed.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Matt S said:


> Often the bengal stripe and candy stripe definitions are reversed.


a

Yes, I guess the terms do tend to be somewhat mutable. Sounds like the shirting industry is rife for a non-profit  shirting stripe standards organization! I'll happily volunteer to head it for the meager compensation of a few $100k annually! 

And what you illustrate is how advertising can become determinative in the evolution of sartorial terms. How, for example, the day cravat became an ascot, or braces, suspenders.


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## kev'n (Nov 8, 2016)

Flanderian said:


> Extroverts only!
> 
> No doubt about it, these stripes are purple; purple awning stripes.
> 
> ...


...this is a stunning shirt. Who did the work for you?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

kev'n said:


> ...this is a stunning shirt. Who did the work for you?


Sorry, but not mine. The shirt is the work of Daniel Levy, Parisian bespoke shirtmaker, as they are shown on his blog -


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Matt S said:


> Often the bengal stripe and candy stripe definitions are reversed.


And sadly, Brooks Brothers gets it wrong sometimes.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> And sadly, Brooks Brothers gets it wrong sometimes.


Brooks' use of sartorial terms has become appalling. One look no further for examples than its choice to describe any sport jacket as a blazer, or to label sneakers, oxfords.

Sadly indicative of the level of understanding of those running the show.


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## Searching_Best_Fit (Feb 11, 2015)

Flanderian said:


> Hmm . . . . ? :icon_scratch:
> 
> Now this merchant of shirtings (Acorn) describes the width of the stripe below as a butcher stripe, the term by which I knew it, before double checking earlier concerning the purple stripe which was generally described as an awning stripe. Don't know if the terms are interchangeable, or I'm simply not ale to discern the difference.
> 
> View attachment 29589


Isn't awning stripes and butcher stripe interchangeable? The awning stripe should be wider than butcher stripe, but not that much. One fabric maker's awning stripe could be another maker's butcher stripe.

It seems that the awning stripe is closed to 1/2"+/- wide (A. Kabbaz's diagram) while the awning stripe strips is defined as > 1/4" wide for W.H.Shirt Make's reference. These definitions do not contradict each other. It is that the term butcher stripe was not used in either definition.

Thus, the logical guess could be that the awning stripe is closed to 1/2" while the butcher stripe is less than 1/2" but more than 1/4", or somewhere in 3/8" range. Both stripes are all wider than 1/4" and awning stripe is a bit wider than butcher stripe.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Lovely soft blue mini-check. Will read as a solid with interest at more than 6 feet. Small enough so that it will pair beautifully with many slightly larger patterned ties and suits.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

The infamous black on white stripe! This is a high contrast and dramatic option for guys with the right coloring when worn with the right outfit. Never thought I'd care for it until I had my shirtmaker run one up, and found it flattering. But that was going on 25 years ago, and I'm too faded in every sense for such dramatic contrasts! 

Still worth a consideration if you're not so long in the tooth, and it suits you. I always enjoyed playing with my shirtmaker's swatches by holding them against my skin and see what flattered.


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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

Flanderian said:


> Brooks' use of sartorial terms has become appalling. One look no further for examples than its choice to describe any sport jacket as a blazer, or to label sneakers, oxfords.
> 
> Sadly indicative of the level of understanding of those running the show.


Would not be surprised if most of this is on purpose to reach the new, younger audience they are looking for and need for the company to survive past the next 20 years. Marketing is pretty savvy now for the online generation. Probably have a list of buzz words that need to be included to make sure and reach the largest possible audience doing a web search. How many really know the inaccuracies nowadays anyway? For those that know the difference, not like there are many better choices. While not what it once was, BB is still a brick/mortar and online presence for those wanting high priced, good quality business wear. Although the definitions of those words has changed a bit over the last 40 years.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Woofa said:


> Would not be surprised if most of this is on purpose to reach the new, younger audience they are looking for and need for the company to survive past the next 20 years. Marketing is pretty savvy now for the online generation. Probably have a list of buzz words that need to be included to make sure and reach the largest possible audience doing a web search. How many really know the inaccuracies nowadays anyway? For those that know the difference, not like there are many better choices. While not what it once was, BB is still a brick/mortar and online presence for those wanting high priced, good quality business wear. Although the definitions of those words has changed a bit over the last 40 years.


I have little doubt of the accuracy of your insights, but in this instance, Daniel Levy, Parisian bespoke shirtmaker has only his well-heeled customers' foibles and fantasies to satisfy. And that he does with a kaleidoscopic array of color and design!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Not for the faint of heart!  Bespoke by D. Levy, Paris. Cloth is unique to one client who has had it made up into 5 different shirts.


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## ItalianStyle (Mar 13, 2017)

I have nothing against contrasting collar and cuffs, but in this shirt the contrast is too stark IMO (photo from ebay)...


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

ItalianStyle said:


> I have nothing against contrasting collar and cuffs, but in this shirt the contrast is too stark IMO (photo from ebay)...


So i guess you wouldn't wear this - (I would have adjusted my tie had I known the photo was being taken):


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

ItalianStyle said:


> I have nothing against contrasting collar and cuffs, but in this shirt the contrast is too stark IMO (photo from ebay)...
> 
> View attachment 30334





StephenRG said:


> So i guess you wouldn't wear this - (I would have adjusted my tie had I known the photo was being taken):
> 
> View attachment 30346


I could see someone managing this, but that someone is not me!  Too long in the tooth, etc.

Just a bit much, as would be M. Levy's latest contribution to the cause.


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## ItalianStyle (Mar 13, 2017)

StephenRG said:


> So i guess you wouldn't wear this - (I would have adjusted my tie had I known the photo was being taken)


Ha, ha... no, too much contrast for my taste, but you wear it well...


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## Searching_Best_Fit (Feb 11, 2015)

StephenRG said:


> So i guess you wouldn't wear this - (I would have adjusted my tie had I known the photo was being taken):
> 
> View attachment 30346


What were the objects on the lower right corner? Could it be someone's..

BTW, the that shirt/tie combo looks good. What would the jacket to tie these together? Something light?


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Searching_Best_Fit said:


> What were the objects on the lower right corner? Could it be someone's..


...Just a woman's bare left arm and wrist. Keep that imagination in check.


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## JBierly (Jul 4, 2012)

StephenRG said:


> So i guess you wouldn't wear this - (I would have adjusted my tie had I known the photo was being taken):
> 
> View attachment 30346


I think the tie is fine! That is more contrast than I care for also. But I personally don't like really dark shirts.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Searching_Best_Fit said:


> BTW, the that shirt/tie combo looks good. What would the jacket to tie these together? Something light?


If memory serves, a medium grey DB suit with subtle pinstripe.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

A pair of worthy additions -










In addition to unusual sunshine yellow stripe, note blunted points on the spread collar which offers an entirely different effect from a traditional spread collar when framing the face.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Like the yellow striped shirt.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

M. Levy, Parisian bespoke shirtmaker strikes again with bold blue awning/butcher stripe topped by a another blunted spread collar. Very nice!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Obviously just cloth from the nice folks at _Acorn, _rather than a finished shirt, but this is exactly something I would have asked my shirtmaker to make up with a contrasting collar and cuffs that closely matched the ground color. Very fond of it, not least because it would be surprisingly versatile with multiple color families of suiting including blue, grey and earth tones.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

JBierly said:


> I think the tie is fine! That is more contrast than I care for also. But I personally don't like really dark shirts.


I personally only like dress shirts with a light colored background (white is best followed by light blue). But a light blue background can't be too light or too dark (baby blue and sky blue are examples of light blue that is neither too light nor too dark).


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> Obviously just cloth from the nice folks at _Acorn, _rather than a finished shirt, but this is exactly something I would have asked my shirtmaker to make up with a contrasting collar and cuffs that closely matched the ground color. Very fond of it, not least because it would be surprisingly versatile with multiple color families of suiting including blue, grey and earth tones.
> 
> View attachment 31462


The stripes are too busy for me with all of those colors. However, if I were to wear that shirt, it would be with suits in beige, blue, blue-gray (which is charcoal blue and slate blue), brown, brown-gray (which is charcoal brown and slate brown), gray, taupe (which is beige-gray) and white.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^What is the purpose of the second button at the collar/throat. I know it seems more prevalent on more expensive and arguably better made shirts. However, in my experience it seems a less comfortable and less convenient feature of the shirts construction. :icon_scratch:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^What is the purpose of the second button at the collar/throat. I know it seems more prevalent on more expensive and arguably better made shirts. However, in my experience it seems a less comfortable and less convenient feature of the shirts construction. :icon_scratch:


I too find it less comfortable. And while I suspect its intended function may differ somewhat among makers, I've noticed that in the case of Daniel Levy he tends not to cut a very high neckband for his collars, and that when he does cut a taller collar, he often adopts a two-button closure to lock down its shape when buttoned.


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Yesterday I wore a pink contrast collar shirt with checked grey suit, brown grenadine tie and a pink/white seersucker pocket square. With a collar pin as well. I felt it looked relatively sharp.


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## EponymousFunk (Jun 4, 2019)

eagle2250 said:


> Over the years I have included a grand total of two contrasting collar and cuff shirts in my wardrobe (as I can recall). The shirts were seldom worn and were eventually culled from my closet. They were just a bit too flashy for my circumstances and perhaps also my tastes, but I have seen others wear them who looked rather good while doing so. :icon_scratch:


This.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Yes they are flashy. Yes they may be an anachronism; a throwback to 1980’s and 90’s Wall Street excess, but they still look good and they still have a place in my wardrobe. 

Not to be worn causally, though.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

My belief. Contrast collars fit some mens personalities but, not others. At least part of the time. Sometimes they are splashy. Other times they are a defining line between this and that (a border of sorts, like a hedge defining a lawn (for example)).


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Fading Fast said:


> I regularly see in movies from the '30s - '50s women smoking cigarettes with white gloves on. I have to assume that a lot of cleaning and replacement costs were associated with such behavior.
> 
> It all seems crazy to me, but smoking was - based on movies and other evidence - insanely popular then and, my guess, all the downsides were just accepted.
> 
> ...


My next door neighbour smokes like a chimney, but sadly, she doesn't smoke in her house, but sits out on her deck, no matter what the weather, to have a cigarette. Not so much of an issue in winter, but on a summer day, when we've got windows open, its impossible to avoid. And she must go through about 30 a day !

There are an elderly couple down the street who do the same. They both smoke a lot but sit outside their front door to do it. You see them at 7:30am in the middle of December, sitting out there in the dark.

Bizarre how people won't smoke inside their own homes, I presume because of the smell, but will still inflict it on their bodies.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Odradek said:


> Bizarre how people won't smoke inside their own homes, I presume because of the smell, but will still inflict it on their bodies.


Bizarre behavior is nothing new for addicts.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^LOL....
....and the monkey on so many of our backs, is clothes/footwear! :crazy:


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Odradek said:


> My next door neighbour smokes like a chimney, but sadly, she doesn't smoke in her house, but sits out on her deck, no matter what the weather, to have a cigarette. Not so much of an issue in winter, but on a summer day, when we've got windows open, its impossible to avoid. And she must go through about 30 a day !
> 
> There are an elderly couple down the street who do the same. They both smoke a lot but sit outside their front door to do it. You see them at 7:30am in the middle of December, sitting out there in the dark.
> 
> Bizarre how people won't smoke inside their own homes, I presume because of the smell, but will still inflict it on their bodies.


I live in a 1928 apartment building which has great big windows and cross breezes (they built them that way pre-airconditioning), so we keep our windows open a lot.

Every so often, we'll pick up cigarette, cigar or marijuana smoke wafting in from another apartment. It doesn't happen often at all, nor is it severe - but it's so weird as (working from home) I almost never encounter smoke except walking down the street, in particular, passing out front of office buildings, where all the smokers go.

Our apartment is a coop and there's a movement to make it smoke free. Right now, you are only allowed to smoke in your apartment, all the common areas are smoke free, but some want to eliminate it even in people's apartments as some get what we get - smoke wafting in - but they get a lot of it all the time.



eagle2250 said:


> ^^LOL....
> ....and the monkey on so many of our backs, is clothes/footwear! :crazy:


Looked at that way, I guess we're lucky. And, heck, as I'm getting older, I really don't buy that many items of clothing anymore - I spend more time talking about it here than actually doing it .


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## EponymousFunk (Jun 4, 2019)

Fading Fast said:


> ...And, heck, as I'm getting older, ... I spend more time talking about it here than actually doing it .


I know this wasn't meant as double entendre, but it made me choke on my beer just a bit (would not dare spit it out!)...

As I get older, this is so true of so many things.

Regards,


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

EponymousFunk said:


> I know this wasn't meant as double entendre, but it made me choke on my beer just a bit (would not dare spit it out!)...
> 
> As I get older, this is so true of so many things.
> 
> Regards,


It was an accident as I only saw it myself after I wrote it.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Fading Fast said:


> Our apartment is a coop...


Hyphen, or do you reside with chickens?


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Peak and Pine said:


> Hyphen, or do you reside with chickens?


Cute and absolute correct, but for what ever reason, the NY shorthand, quite often but not always, is "coop."


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Fading Fast said:


> Cute and absolute correct, but for what ever reason, the NY shorthand, quite often but not always, is "coop."


^
As is the Harvard Coop from which I have a bunch of that awful trad stuff bought when I used to drink. I mention the chicken coop thing because, as you might imagine from previous descriptions of life here, I actually encounter folks who do live with chickens. And Dante Gabriel Rosetti, kind of a hero to me, lived with wombats, real bats and racoons in the heart of London


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

It must be nice to live in a coop in New York. Have you heard the Bobby Short quote: "To be alive and well and successful in New York is a great treasure."


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

Back to the original topic. My first contrasting collar shirt was a Van Laack from Saks in Beverly Hills in 1977. The next ones was Saks house label from the NYC store in about 1986. About five years ago, I bought my third one: a nice Hilditch and Key from Bloomies. More recently, I found 2 beautiful Polo Ralph lauren dead stock old blue label ones on ebay. Bought both and I like them a lot.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

peterc said:


> It must be nice to live in a coop in New York. Have you heard the Bobby Short quote: "To be alive and well and successful in New York is a great treasure."


But two out of three ain't bad anywhere!


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

peterc said:


> It must be nice to live in a coop in New York. Have you heard the Bobby Short quote: "To be alive and well and successful in New York is a great treasure."


I fell in love with NYC in its gritty '70s, when I was a kid, moved here in the '80s, out of college, when it was far from cleaned up and have never wanted to live anywhere else.

I was also fortunate to have seen Bobby Short at the Carlyle a few times - an uber New York, New-York experience.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
New York, NY, is a great place to visit, but "Thank God I'm a country boy!" I respect those who can comfortably call a big city their home, but being surrounded by all that humanity would be stressful for me.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

I grew up in Manhattan. Lived in The City between 17 and 21, the years I grew up. College and wonderment. Don't think the Bobby Short quote is particularly pithy, sort of Readers Digest memorable. Unlike Hemingway's regarding Paris.

(from memory, but think it's close)
_If you were lucky enough to have lived in Paris when you were young, then whereever you go for the rest of your life Paris goes with you, for Paris is a moveable feast. _So it is with me and NYC.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> New York, NY, is a great place to visit, but "Thank God I'm a country boy!" I respect those who can comfortably call a big city their home, but being surrounded by all that humanity would be stressful for me.


I understand that, but oddly, it's so impersonal in NYC that you can be much more alone here than in towns or the country. I've lived in 300+ person apartment houses in NYC and not known a single one of my neighbors other than to nod when passing in the lobby. Since there are so many places to get coffee, drop off your dry cleaning, buy your whatevers, etc., that you don't often run into the same people or even have to go to the same place.

I grew up in a kinda small town and you ended up knowing half the people as you saw them all the time, ran into them in the same stores, etc. Your neighbor would stop you on the way to your car to say hi and also ask you why you were at the dentist on Tuesday - "everything okay?" Most of it was well-intentioned, but still, you were much more engaged with people in a small town than NYC.

I love the anonymity the city provides despite being chockablock with people.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Fading Fast said:


> I understand that, but oddly, it's so impersonal in NYC that you can be much more alone here than in towns or the country. I've lived in 300+ person apartment houses in NYC and not known a single one of my neighbors other than to nod when passing in the lobby. Since there are so many placed to get coffee, drop off your dry cleaning, buy your whatevers, etc., that you don't often run into the same people or even have to go to the same place.
> 
> I grew up in a kinda small town and you ended up knowing half the people as you saw them all the time, ran into them in the same stores, etc. Your neighbor would stop you on the way to your car to say hi and also ask you why you were at the dentist on Tuesday - "everything okay?" Most of it was well-intentioned, but still, you were much more engaged with people in a small town than NYC.
> 
> I love the anonymity the city provides despite being chockablock with people.


The city can indeed offer anonymity in a lot of ways, but this spurred me to muse on other cities. I've lived in a number of large cities, and they have had very distinct characters. When I lived in Houston it was like living in a village surrounded by a city instead of a valley or hills. I ran into the same people at the places I went for coffee, laundry, Sunday night Chinese food, etc. and while waiting in grocery store checkout lines struck up acquaintances that later became friendships. I concluded it wasn't simply a southern versus northern thing, for I found Dallas very different, more of a place to be anonymous. Ditto for LA and Seattle but not as much for San Francisco or Portland. It's been so long since I've lived in the northeast or abroad that whatever impressions I might have had are doubtless out of date. But I must say that in Austin the prevailing views on collars and cuffs might well be our unifying factor: What are they?

;0):


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

Fading Fast said:


> I fell in love with NYC in its gritty '70s, when I was a kid, moved here in the '80s, out of college, when it was far from cleaned up and have never wanted to live anywhere else.
> 
> I was also fortunate to have seen Bobby Short at the Carlyle a few times - an uber New York, New-York experience.


You are indeed fortunate. Well done!


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

My involvement with New York is much like FF's - exposure in the '70's, a move to the city in the very last days of the 1970's, living through the gritty '80's, and a hardened addiction for living on the strange little island of Manhattan that will reach its 40th anniversary next Thanksgiving weekend.

As for shirts with contrasting collars and cuffs, I've been wearing them since the '80's, and continue to wear them to this day, having had them made with eyelet collars and French cuffs through Brooks several times. They seem to work for my personal mien.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

FWIW, and I can't say whether this is traditional, the line judges at Wimbledon are wearing light blue striped shirts with white collars. The cuffs do not appear to be white.


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## Faux Brummell (Mar 27, 2013)

Sorry if this has already been mentioned - contrast collar shirts are also a classic choice for morning dress.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## poppies (May 11, 2017)

When I see contrasting shirts on younger fellows, accurately or not I tend to make a snap judgement that they may be a bit narcissistic. On gentlemen with a few more years, however, such a look tends to strike me as elegant. Funny that.


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## EponymousFunk (Jun 4, 2019)

poppies said:


> When I see contrasting shirts on younger fellows, accurately or not I tend to make a snap judgement that they may be a bit narcissistic. On gentlemen with a few more years, however, such a look tends to strike me as elegant. Funny that.


There is a fine line between narcissism and self confidence/a sense of one's professional value. I am not certain age would really make the difference to me, though...context matters.


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## Cherokeepilot (Apr 20, 2010)

Just picked up a couple of contrast shirts with blue bodies in striped and herringbone with club collars. Am looking for another contrast shirt with a light pink body....this shirt seems to gather the most compliments when at work and afterwards....73s


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Cherokeepilot said:


> Just picked up a couple of contrast shirts with blue bodies in striped and herringbone with club collars. Am looking for another contrast shirt with a light pink body....this shirt seems to gather the most compliments when at work and afterwards....73s


Sound like some great shirts! Enjoy them!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## Ungentleman (Dec 8, 2018)

I have been known to wear the contrast collar in its club variation, either pinned or tabbed. I prefer the cuffs to be of the same material as the body of the shirt, as to my mind this tends to subdue the loudness of the contrast collar. Probably just my imagination, though. My shirts of this kind tend to be too loud as it is.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Ungentleman said:


> I have been known to wear the contrast collar in its club variation, either pinned or tabbed. I prefer the cuffs to be of the same material as the body of the shirt, as to my mind this tends to subdue the loudness of the contrast collar. Probably just my imagination, though. My shirts of this kind tend to be too loud as it is.
> 
> View attachment 35996
> 
> ...


Nice shirts!

I used to have my shirtmaker make a slightly elongated club collar with eyelets. Eyelets were introduced after ruining the lining of a collar with a pin.


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## Ungentleman (Dec 8, 2018)

Flanderian said:


> Nice shirts!
> 
> I used to have my shirtmaker make a slightly elongated club collar with eyelets. Eyelets were introduced after ruining the lining of a collar with a pin.


Yup, I learned my lesson with an older shirt and since then, all my shirts for pinning are made without lining in the collar. Eventually they will fray, but I am fine getting the collars replaced.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I like grey used as a color with dress shirts, but early on learned they were unflattering to me, and substituted black in the pattern instead because as a stripe or check it tended to work with my coloring and to constitute an interesting variation for dress shirts. Parisian chemisier, Daniel Levy, today posted a handsome example of the genre which he has made for a client.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> Nice shirts!
> 
> I used to have my shirtmaker make a slightly elongated club collar with eyelets. Eyelets were introduced after ruining the lining of a collar with a pin.


What happened to the lining when pinned? And was the lining fused or unfused?


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## iam.mike (Oct 26, 2008)

@Flanderian - great photography skills my friend! Nice shot of that shirt.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Matt S said:


> What happened to the lining when pinned? And was the lining fused or unfused?


The lining became permanently crumpled up and misshapen within the collar, with the lining actually tearing slightly at the point where the pin pierced it. It made it unwearable without replacing the collar. I don't recall if the collar was fused, but suspect it likely was. Perhaps a softer construction and sturdier lining might not have succumbed as easily.



mikel said:


> @Flanderian - great photography skills my friend! Nice shot of that shirt.


Taking such fine photos is skill often lacking. And whoever does these photos is highly skilled.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Ungentleman said:


> I have been known to wear the contrast collar in its club variation, either pinned or tabbed.


Just say "I wear...", it's less pompous.


> I prefer the cuffs to be of the same material as the body of the shirt, as to my mind this tends to subdue the loudness of the contrast collar. Probably just my imagination, though. My shirts of this kind tend to be too loud as it is.


I'm with you on matching the cuffs and body/sleeves, for the very reason you state. It's best to let the white collar (and necktie) draw the eyes of viewers up to the face. White cuffs will sometimes distract.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

This image is from a tv show, so blame the costume department if you don't like it. I think it illustrates the observation someone made in this thread that contrast collars on young men are a hit-or-miss thing.


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## ItalianStyle (Mar 13, 2017)

The "look at me with my ear piece that makes me look like a clown" look kind of draws the eye away from the contrasting collar...


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

I had some contrast-collar shirts when I was young. My father liked them, and I started off by wearing his. Then he got me some of my own. I didn't have a problem wearing them when I was younger, but I don't find myself wanting them now. I have one contrast-collar shirt now thanks to a collar replacement on a worn-out collar. That's the only way I'll get a contrast-collar shirt. A contrast collar needs to be earned. If you've worn out the collar of a quality shirt that is worth the money to put a new collar on, you've earned the contrasting collar.

My shirtmaker always tries to convince me to order a contrast-collar shirt from them every time I visit. They used to frequently make them for Roger Moore, and they think I'd look good in them, but so far I've stayed away, saying that I'll get one when a collar wears out.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I wore contrast collar shirts among my other dress shirts throughout my 30's, 40's, 50's and into my 60's and was sometimes pleased with the results, and judging from the occasional compliment, others seemed to be also. But such compliments tended to be less, "Gee, that's a nice contrast collar shirt" than, "You look nice today", or some such. I tried to create a pleasing ensemble, and when I succeeded, a contrast collar shirt just happened to be part of the entire composition.

For me, one of the fun and creative aspects of the hobby of trying to dress well involves bringing many variables that go far beyond simply color, pattern, tone and shape into harmony. I should probably think more deeply about it and create a list of what they all include. (Then I could write a book, create a system, market it and get rich! Ah, phooey!!! :laughing

One of these variables, purely for the sake of laziness, I will call the aesthetic mood of the particular outfit. Is it soft, and relaxed? Or is it focused and dramatic? Each might be one of two different effects I'm trying to achieve in different ensembles. If so, it's not simply enough that color, pattern, tone and shape harmonize, but each article of clothing should compliment the aesthetic effect being sought. When a given effect is well accomplished, individual items tend to stand out less, and become simply an attractive piece of an organic whole.

Nominally similar items can be very different in effect. An example is the two black on white striped shirts with contrasting white collars below. The first I posted Wednesday, the second is new.



















By virtue of the lower intensity of the striped pattern, the top shirt will pair with a broader range of suitable other items. It's more relaxed, and can be fitted in without causing too much of a ruckus.

The second is drama personified! And it must be paired other harmonious items of the same school as part of a suitably dramatic composition to not stand out and scream, "I'm a bold, black striped shirt!" Which it will, if not appropriately handled!

And any other contrast collar shirt will also announce itself in an undesirable way that isn't integrated as a part of unified aesthetic vision.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

But just imagine how much harder the second shirt would be to wear if the collar matched the body. The white collar calms down the shirt near the face. You need a dark, high-contrast complexion to pull it off against the face, but with the right outfit more people could wear it with a white collar without it being distracting.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Matt S said:


> But just imagine how much harder the second shirt would be to wear if the collar matched the body. The white collar calms down the shirt near the face. You need a dark, high-contrast complexion to pull it off against the face, but with the right outfit more people could wear it with a white collar without it being distracting.


I think you're right, Matt. White near the face tends to flatter most, if not all, men. And I agree it does tend to increase the wearability for most from a purely aesthetic perspective.


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Flanderian said:


> I wore contrast collar shirts among my other dress shirts throughout my 30's, 40's, 50's and into my 60's and was sometimes pleased with the results, and judging from the occasional compliment, others seemed to be also. But such compliments tended to be less, "Gee, that's a nice contrast collar shirt" than, "You look nice today", or some such. I tried to create a pleasing ensemble, and when I succeeded, a contrast collar shirt just happened to be part of the entire composition.
> 
> For me, one of the fun and creative aspects of the hobby of trying to dress well involves bringing many variables that go far beyond simply color, pattern, tone and shape into harmony. I should probably think more deeply about it and create a list of what they all include. (Then I could write a book, create a system, market it and get rich! Ah, phooey!!! :laughing
> 
> ...


I have one with identical pattern as the second one you've posted, only with a straight collar with single button. It definitely makes a statement. I actually purchased it several years ago, wore it once and then packed it away. I recently rediscovered it and was pleased to find it still fits me (weight went up and down over the years) so I'll be sporting it this week. Any tie suggestions for it?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Troones said:


> I have one with identical pattern as the second one you've posted, only with a straight collar with single button. It definitely makes a statement. I actually purchased it several years ago, wore it once and then packed it away. I recently rediscovered it and was pleased to find it still fits me (weight went up and down over the years) so I'll be sporting it this week. Any tie suggestions for it?


Something dark and inky, that whispers of elegant decadence, and will whip that stripe into its place! :devil:


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

I've just learned that my wife dropped by Brooks Brothers just now on her weekend shopping expedition and purchased this for me. She's all mine fellas! 🤗

This will be my first club collar shirt. I'm quite excited. Curiously though, Brooks calls this a "golf collar" on their website. Is there a difference that's not apparent to me, or is this just another case of Brooks Brothers straying from the classic menswear terminology?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Troones said:


> I've just learned that my wife dropped by Brooks Brothers just now on her weekend shopping expedition and purchased this for me. She's all mine fellas! 🤗
> 
> This will be my first club collar shirt. I'm quite excited. Curiously though, Brooks calls this a "golf collar" on their website. Is there a difference that's not apparent to me, or is this just another case of Brooks Brothers straying from the classic menswear terminology?
> 
> View attachment 36959


That's a nice shirt! 👍

I believe Brooks' _Golf_ name is just their model name for the more generic club collar term.

FWIW, I consider their _Golf_ collar to be on the smaller end of club collars. I typically tie a half-windsor, but a four-in-hand is all this collar can take. Its size isn't a problem, but being larger and having a larger head, I prefer those slightly bigger.


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Flanderian said:


> That's a nice shirt! 👍
> 
> I believe Brooks' _Golf_ name is just their model name for the more generic club collar name.
> 
> FWIW, I consider their _Golf_ collar to be on the smaller end of club collars. I typically tie a half-windsor, but a four-in-hand is all this collar can take. Its size isn't a problem, but being larger and having a larger head, I prefer those slightly bigger.


Interesting. My melon is a bit on the larger side as well. Let's see how this works out!


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Troones said:


> I've just learned that my wife dropped by Brooks Brothers just now on her weekend shopping expedition and purchased this for me. She's all mine fellas! 🤗
> 
> This will be my first club collar shirt. I'm quite excited. Curiously though, Brooks calls this a "golf collar" on their website. Is there a difference that's not apparent to me, or is this just another case of Brooks Brothers straying from the classic menswear terminology?
> 
> View attachment 36959


That is a beautiful classic shirt. I agree with Flanderian as, for whatever reason, BB calls club collars "golf" collars.

One thing you might consider is wearing a pin collar bar as they go really well with club collars.

The easy way (and I think it works fine) is to buy a pin collar bar and do like this guy did ⇩ 









Or you could have "eyelet" holes cut into the shirt collar and then you can use a collar bar like this ⇩ 









Either way, I think the collar bar gives the collar and tie a nice "finished" look.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> That is a beautiful classic shirt. I agree with Flanderian as, for whatever reason, BB calls club collars "golf" collars.
> 
> One thing you might consider is wearing a pin collar bar as they go really well with club collars.
> 
> ...


Very nice!

I had many of my "club" style collars made with eyelets, as in the lower photo. (FWIW, I think the top photo may be a slide-on bar, though I don't disdain such as some seem to.)

But you'll note that the two collars depicted here are significantly larger than Brooks' _Golf_ collar, and while original collars of this size *were* often worn with pins, should the OP accomplish this feat of dexterity and strength on a _Golf_ collar, it is well beyond my ken. And it would require a tie both exceptionally thin and narrow. The resulting tie space being roughly only as large as the tip of my thumb.

Edit: Also note that I believe the Brooks collar is fused. And given my experience with piercing fused collars with pins, I'd likely not wish to on this collar.

Double edit: IMHO, member Troones has a very kind and thoughtful wife with excellent taste! 🤙


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Fading Fast said:


> That is a beautiful classic shirt. I agree with Flanderian as, for whatever reason, BB calls club collars "golf" collars.
> 
> One thing you might consider is wearing a pin collar bar as they go really well with club collars.
> 
> ...


I agree about the collar pin, and I do have a couple. However, Flanderian wasn't kidding when he said these collars are on the small side. I'm wondering if there's room enough for the pin. Maybe I can post a picture with collar and tie and solicit some advice?


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> Very nice!
> 
> I had many of my "club" style collars made with eyelets, as in the lower photo. (FWIW, I think the top photo may be a slide-on bar, though I don't disdain such as some seem to.)
> 
> ...


All good points. I had a similar thought on the collar bar in the upper pic possibly being a slip on, but I had run out of energy trying to find a pin one.

For Troones, this is what one looks like and a link to one:








https://www.thetiebar.com/product/C942
I haven't had the bad experiences using pin collar bars on fused collars, but I know, many like you, have - so I guess I was just lucky.

Also, I've squeezed some ties into some small collar "space," but again, your point is a good one.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Troones said:


> I agree about the collar pin, and I do have a couple. However, Flanderian wasn't kidding when he said these collars are on the small side. I'm wondering if there's room enough for the pin. Maybe I can post a picture with collar and tie and solicit some advice?


Flanderian is spot on in saying you'll need a thin tie knot to pull it off. It will be a battle of "where there's a will, there's a way" vs. the laws of physics.

I look forward to the pics of your efforts.

And, cool wife - it's nice to see.


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Fading Fast said:


> Flanderian is spot on in saying you'll need a thin tie knot to pull it off. It will be a battle of "where there's a will, there's a way" vs. the laws of physics.
> 
> I look forward to the pics of your efforts.
> 
> And, cool wife - it's nice to see.


@Flanderian

Thanks for the kind words about Mrs. Troones gents. She's all those things and more. And of course, she's with me because.... well because.... ummmm....
...... :icon_scratch:&#8230;&#8230;..

Well, anyway, here's a pic of a collar pin and a BB wool tie in a four in hand knot. A silk one would be a bit smaller still, though I'm not a fan of tiny knots. Does it look like the pin will fit? It will pull the collar in more than the ones Flanderian posted if it does. Is that a bad thing? Any opinions appreciated!


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Troones said:


> @Flanderian
> 
> Thanks for the kind words about Mrs. Troones gents. She's all those things and more. And of course, she's with me because.... well because.... ummmm....
> ...... :icon_scratch:&#8230;&#8230;..
> ...


I think it will work and I like a good "pinch" to the collar - it will "dimple" a bit which looks fine to me. That said, you could also buy a longer collar pin, but I think what you got will work. But before you do anything, recognize the risk that you mess up the collar is there - I have never had that happen, but people whose opinion - like Flanderian - that I respect have had it happen to them. Just wanted to make sure you know the risk.


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Fading Fast said:


> I think it will work and I like a good "pinch" to the collar - it will "dimple" a bit which looks fine to me. That said, you could also buy a longer collar pin, but I think what you got will work. But before you do anything, recognize the risk that you mess up the collar is there - I have never had that happen, but people whose opinion - like Flanderian - that I respect have had it happen to them. Just wanted to make sure you know the risk.


Understood. I'm going for it! Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I actually have the exact pin you linked from the Tie Bar. It's a tad longer, but the pin is thicker so it makes more of a hole. I'll consider both then post the results!


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Troones said:


> Understood. I'm going for it! Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I actually have the exact pin you linked from the Tie Bar. It's a tad longer, but the pin is thicker so it makes more of a hole. I'll consider both then post the results!


Having just seen "Ford v Ferrari," I appreciate your go-for-it approach.


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## Ungentleman (Dec 8, 2018)

Doctor Damage said:


> Just say "I wear...", it's less pompous.


I've always seen the phrase as softening an otherwise firm statement. To simply say "I wear" sounds too forceful to me, since the shirts in question don't form a central part of my wardrobe, and I don't wear them that often. I have been known to wear them on occasion, however. I'm sure that fact alone is enough reason for some to consider me pompous, regardless of my choice of words.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)




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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> View attachment 37303





Doctor Damage said:


> View attachment 37304


I see your two dorks, and raise you two Nuckys and a Good Time Charlie!


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## vonSuess (Apr 29, 2017)

Does anyone know what the stand up white collars above are called? Kind of remind me of clerical collars or those french cuff turtlenecks Lyndon Johnson used to wear...


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

vonSuess said:


> Does anyone know what the stand up white collars above are called? Kind of remind me of clerical collars or those french cuff turtlenecks Lyndon Johnson used to wear...


I suspect the costume shirts for the show were simply shirts made with an extra high collar band, and in contemporary terms would most commonly be described as a form of club collar. But the originals they were intended to imitate were no doubt the detachable collars which were then the norm, and sold separately from shirt bodies. These were the *actual* reason for the advent of contrasting white collars with colored shirt bodies. (Nothing to do with the replacement of collars and cuffs from your shirtmake, an almost certain later invention.) I.e., likely all, or nearly all, available shirt collars only came in white. First because white was the most common color for dress shirts, and secondly, because it can be worn with most any color or pattern of shirt body.

While short pointed round collars most often subsequently became known as club collars, illustrations I've seen from the period actually show a plethora of detachable collar styles, each undoubtedly given a unique name by their many manufacturers. The short pointed round collar appeared to just be one of the most common judging from photos and illustrations from the era, and was likely known by multiple names.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

vonSuess said:


> ...those french cuff turtlenecks Lyndon Johnson used to wear...


Yes, during his presidency, LBJ did like to wear tab collar shirts with a high neckband.

Except that when he signed Medicare into law on July 30, 1965 at the Truman Library in Independence, Missouri, he wore a short-sleeved shirt with a button-down collar underneath his usual dark suit jacket.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

One good Nucky deserves another, and another . . . .


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Daniel Levy bespoke for client -










AKA, the Goodfellas model, AKA The Nucky, AKA The Nicky Newark! :icon_saint7kg:


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Good old Charlie Wilson: contrast collars and cuffs, button down collars, two breast pockets, and shoulder straps!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> Good old Charlie Wilson: contrast collars and cuffs, button down collars, two breast pockets, and shoulder straps!
> 
> View attachment 37389


God bless Texas!!! irate:


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Flanderian said:


> God bless Texas!!! irate:


The more I look at that photo, the less wrong it seems. It's time to admit it. I have a problem.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Troones said:


> The more I look at that photo, the less wrong it seems. It's time to admit it. I have a problem.


He definitely had his own personal style and wasn't ashamed of it!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Flanderian said:


> Daniel Levy bespoke for client -
> 
> View attachment 37349
> 
> ...


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

M. Levy for the bold of heart -


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Subtle -


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> Subtle -
> 
> View attachment 39579


Make that as a button down collar and I will take one!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Ah, very nice! Looks like something I might have had made up circa '85, though I'd incorporate my preferences.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Flanderian said:


> Ah, very nice! Looks like something I might have had made up circa '85, though I'd incorporate my preferences.
> 
> View attachment 39678


Beautiful shirt, perfectly turned collar.


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## GraceR (Jan 14, 2020)

The Winchester Collar, to call it by it's formal name, is a timeless style in formal men's attire. Mostly attributed to the Banker/ Wall street look, they are also popular with groomsmen when worn as part of the formal tailcoat. A classic look every time.


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## GraceR (Jan 14, 2020)

eagle2250 said:


> Make that as a button down collar and I will take one!


Contrast collars fit particularly well with striped shirts. Where several stores will be subject to a cutaway/ semi cutaway collar in these styles, my advice would be to have the shirt custom made, or even better, made to measure, where you can take advantage of personalising your style with detailed attributes that accent your style and creativity.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Making a statement. I might wear this, but only with a very plain tie, and solid or discreet pattern cloth -


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

Today's shirt & tie combination . . .


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

upr_crust said:


> Today's shirt & tie combination . . .


Very crusty! Meant as a compliment


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

upr_crust said:


> Today's shirt & tie combination . . .
> 
> View attachment 39700
> View attachment 39701


Very nice! :icon_cheers:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Love it! :happy:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> Love it! :happy:
> 
> View attachment 40658


Yeh, that's pretty close to perfect.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> Yeh, that's pretty close to perfect.


Considering our discussions on the dearth of opportunity to dress up, this makes one wish to search for such just to again be able to wear such a shirt.  The collar length and shape are similar to the eyelet versions to be pinned I used to have my shirtmaker provide, though they were a one-button closure and possessed a little less tie space.

Again on the issue of dressing up, I often find myself considering sadly my cuff link collection which can literally go unworn for years!


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> Considering our discussions on the dearth of opportunity to dress up, this makes one wish to search for such just to again be able to wear such a shirt.  The collar length and shape are similar to the eyelet versions to be pinned I used to have my shirtmaker provide, though they were a one-button closure and possessed a little less tie space.
> 
> Again on the issue of dressing up, I often find myself considering sadly my cuff link collection which can literally go unworn for years!


After white and blue shirts, blue shirts with white collars were my most commonly bought shirt. In particular, I like the color blue with that end-on-end fabric in the shirt you showed - I owned many (never as nice as in the pic) versions of that shirt.

Half my closet (probably more) has become an effective museum of Wall Street business clothes. The suits, shirts, ties, belts, cufflinks, shoes, socks, etc., just stay untouched year after year. And I'm active in my work - it's just that working form home and the almost complete takeover of biz casual (and, now, all casual) have made my biz close all but obsolete.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

A simple 'no' suffices.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
> 
> View attachment 41121


Oh boy, do I agree! That image may haunt me for the rest of my life.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Oh boy, do I agree! That image may haunt me for the rest of my life.


The irony is while entirely unwearable, the composition viewed solely as an aesthetic exercise possesses a great deal of art and talent.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 41132


Nicely put together, but how does this fall into contrasting collar and cuff? Don't get me wrong, 
I'll take it in any thread.

Harmony without being ostentatious.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

EclecticSr. said:


> Nicely put together, but how does this fall into contrasting collar and cuff? Don't get me wrong,
> I'll take it in any thread.
> 
> Harmony without being ostentatious.


It assuredly does not!

(But after your kindness, I was loathe to delete it. Would seem a bit rude! )


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

From chemisier parisien, D. Levy - speaks for itself -


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> From chemisier parisien, D. Levy - speaks for itself -
> 
> View attachment 41366


Nice sales philosophy, but the spokesman in this instance comes off as decidedly cocky! LOL.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 42669


I like the suit, tie and shirt individually, but together, it's two too many small-scale patterns. Sometimes two or (rarely) even three small-scale patterns can work in one outfit, but to my eye, it doesn't here.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> I like the suit, tie and shirt individually, but together, it's two too many small-scale patterns. Sometimes two or (rarely) even three small-scale patterns can work in one outfit, but to my eye, it doesn't here.


You know, you're right! When I looked, I didn't look closely, and thought the tie was a solid in larger grenadine, but the pattern is mistake. The rest I have no issue with, excepting the I-gent affectation of leaving the top button of the tailored vest undone.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)




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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 42897


A theme we've discussed recently: solids playing nicely with each other.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> A theme we've discussed recently: solids playing nicely with each other.


Looks like stuff I used to wear around 1985, the era when I had a shirtmaker, tailor and was young enough to get away with this sort of drama.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Chemises D. Levy back in business. Steep twill fabric offers interesting effect -


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## Hebrew Barrister (Oct 1, 2017)

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 42850


that with a well chosen knit tie would be splendid.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Hebrew Barrister said:


> that with a well chosen knit tie would be splendid.


It's a handsome shirt! But a bit bold and bright for my preference.

But a knit tie, possibly silk, could look wonderful. Paul Stuart has long sold some of the nicest silk knit ties around, and I have maybe a half dozen from long ago when they retailed for around $65. Hues I might enjoy pairing with it would include pale yellow, mustard or plum.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Not on your life! 

But interesting and vital within the context of its own aesthetic. In addition to blow-your-socks-off optics, fine quality. Billed as Ring jacket of Minnis Fresco. Fine tailoring of fine cloth.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Much better use of the handsome Fresco check above. Ring Jacket.

Richard Merkin -

_"Dressing, like painting, should have a residual stability, plus punctuation and surprise. Somewhere, like in Krazy Kat, you've got to throw the brick."








_


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

⇧ Nix the PS and I'm all in. The simple, elegant harmony of the colors is jarred by the PS IMO.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Nix the PS and I'm all in. The simple, elegant harmony of the colors is jarred by the PS IMO.


But that's the brick! 
Makes the outfit, IMHO. But that's why they make cars in different colors. :beer:


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> But that's the brick!
> Makes the outfit, IMHO. But that's why they make cars in different colors. :beer:


Agreed, as the saying goes - that's what makes a horse race.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Good Time Charlie in the authentic, attached variety, from which the style evolved, bespoke stories notwithstanding! 










Lesser mortal wears a handsome, though pedestrian version. Desperately needs to find a different PS, and to stop flexing while posing!  -


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

In my shirtmaker era, I had them make somewhat similar shirts, except I preferred a less radical cutaway collar, and a smaller. less vivid check. Quite versatile, if more highly styled. 👍


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> In my shirtmaker era, I had them make somewhat similar shirts, except I preferred a less radical cutaway collar, and a smaller. less vivid check. Quite versatile, if more highly styled. 👍
> 
> View attachment 45460


With your noted adjustments, it would be an outstanding shirt.


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Fading Fast said:


> With your noted adjustments, it would be an outstanding shirt.


@Flanderian

I actually have a similar shirt with more toned down checks and a straight collar that I wear with a collar pin. Or at least I used to. Forgive the wrinkles and amateur layout.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Troones said:


> @Flanderian
> 
> I actually have a similar shirt with more toned down checks and a straight collar that I wear with a collar pin. Or at least I used to. Forgive the wrinkles and amateur layout.
> 
> View attachment 45489


A very handsome shirt! 👍

I have always been fond of contrast collar shirts, and fortunately found they flattered me. I used to have a fair percentage of those created by my shirtmaker feature them. (Not least because I enjoyed playing shirt designer! )

When I dressed for business, while my dress may have been a bit flamboyant, I strove to create an appearance more rich than gaudy. For that reason I usually attempted not to amp-up the contrast too much. Most were pale blue with a white collar, and either check, stripe of solid bodies. I also like, and found very useful, ecru bodied shirts with white collars. If the ecru was light enough, the tonal contrast was very subtle. I was fortunate to be able to wear some shades of ecru well, as not all complexions can.

My two highest contrast combinations were a spread collar on burgundy on white Bengal stripe, and a double track black pencil stripe on white with an extended club collar. The last was particularly dramatic and paired beautifully with some of Paul Stuart's silk brocade ties. Found early on that I couldn't wear shirts with grey patterns, but did well with black. Kept them subtle enough so the result was close to grey.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Bespoke Glencheck with overplaid -


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Bespoke shirt from Daniel Levy, Paris, with medium point collar -










As contrasted to an extremely short point tab collar, such as Brooks', this shirt will yield a collar appearance more similar to those below.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> Bespoke shirt from Daniel Levy, Paris, with medium point collar -
> 
> View attachment 46391
> 
> ...


No question those are beautiful shirts.

I wonder if the reason my "favorite" tab collars have short points is because I like the aesthetic better or because the first ones I remember seeing were in 1960s movies when the points, usually, were short or because the first ones I bought, from Abercrombie and Fitch (when it was still Abercrombie and Fitch), in the mid '80s, were short ones.

This is pretty close to what I think of when I think of the ideal tab collar, George C Scott in 1961's "The Hustler."


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## Troones (Mar 7, 2018)

Not bespoke by any means, but I thought I might share my latest contrast collar, purchased from Paul Fredrick for a decent discount. I'm all about the contrast collar. I can't get enough of the look.

PS. Any tie suggestions for this shirt?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> No question those are beautiful shirts.
> 
> I wonder if the reason my "favorite" tab collars have short points is because I like the aesthetic better or because the first ones I remember seeing were in 1960s movies when the points, usually, were short or because the first ones I bought, from Abercrombie and Fitch (when it was still Abercrombie and Fitch), in the mid '80s, were short ones.
> 
> ...


My guess based upon your observed preferences is, all of those. The short point tab was an icon of '50's trad, but then the prevailing fashion was for shorter collar point, irrespective of collar type.

It's a different look, but I like and can wear the shorter point tab as well. The main difficulty being some declining dexterity when dealing with Brooks' fiendish tiny button and button hole, and a need to carefully select a tie to pair with it. The 1 1/2" ties of my youth are blessedly long gone, and shall never ridicule my more robust person again! But the tiny tie space still requires a tie that will make a knot that will fit. I.e., four-in-hand, light weight, with minimal or no lining for my ties of 3", or so. I find wool Challis near ideal for this purpose.



Troones said:


> Not bespoke by any means, but I thought I might share my latest contrast collar, purchased from Paul Fredrick for a decent discount. I'm all about the contrast collar. I can't get enough of the look.
> 
> PS. Any tie suggestions for this shirt?
> View attachment 46422


Handsome shirt! 👍

The stripe with white collar are quite similar to one I had my shirtmaker make. I can wear black but not grey stripes. Had mine with a slightly longer point club collar with eyelets for a pin.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> My guess based upon your observed preferences is, all of those. The short point tab was an icon of '50's trad, but then the prevailing fashion was for shorter collar point, irrespective of collar type.
> 
> It's a different look, but I like and can wear the shorter point tab as well. The main difficulty being some declining dexterity when dealing with Brooks' fiendish tiny button and button hole, and a need to carefully select a tie to pair with it. The 1 1/2" ties of my youth are blessedly long gone, and shall never ridicule my more robust person again! But the tiny tie space still requires a tie that will make a knot that will fit. I.e., four-in-hand, light weight, with minimal or no lining for my ties of 3", or so. I find wool Challis near ideal for this purpose.
> ...


I have't worn a tie since last year and my current batch of tab collars are mainly snaps that work very well, but I remember many a morning when I struggled for a few minutes to get a button done or stud inserted to close the tab. Now, looking back, I see that as part of the fun quirkiness of clothing, but in the morning it was happening, I probably had a less sanguine view of it.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Troones, good, good shirt.


Troones said:


> PS. Any tie suggestions for this ?


No. Three reasons...
Have to know whether you consider a tie as centerpiece or accessory, what jacket goes on top and whether that jacket is one, two or three button as the number of buttons and whether or not they're used determines how much tie shows.

Again, fine shirt.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> I have't worn a tie since last year and my current batch of tab collars are mainly snaps that work very well, but I remember many a morning when I struggled for a few minutes to get a button done or stud inserted to close the tab. Now, looking back, I see that as part of the fun quirkiness of clothing, but in the morning it was happening, I probably had a less sanguine view of it.


Brings back memories of running out of the house with it undone and struggling to get the d***** thing buttoned at stop lights!


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Flanderian said:


> Brings back memories of running out of the house with it undone and struggling to get the d***** thing buttoned at stop lights!


Been there. Gone to work with tab unconnected and a stud in my pocket. Sometime, all it took was stepping away as, often, it would pop right in at work (or on the way to work).


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Another Daniel Levy bespoke shirt. This one a bold and dramatic choice -


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Another white tab collar from Daniel Levy, Paris. This one on a very handsome fancy variation of a butcher/awning stripe that I would find both useful and fun to wear. -


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I realize this is OT, but what a remarkable shirt!

Also bespoke by Daniel Levy, this handsome shirt is made of a linen/cotton blend. Love chambray, and have one shirt of such a combined blend, and have found it as cool as linen, but surprisingly, less prone to wrinkles than either. A wonder fabric for summer, add only my preferred placket front, and I couldn't imagine a nicer summer casual shirt.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Daniel Levy bespoke, Paris. Same handsome tab as several previous, but I would personally have requested a white spread on this handsome, and difficult to end-on-end with stripes.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)




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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Handsome spread collar on a butcher/awning striped body. Daniel Levy, Paris, again displays his versatility in fashioning a higher neckband secured in place by double buttons for this bespoke client.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Bespoke from Daniel Levy, Paris. Super fine poplin in vivid cobalt blue fancy stripe -


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)




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