# Francis Bown's Bespoke, Pinstripes, Rich and Famous?



## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

https://www.bownsbespoke.com/index.htm
Independent? reviews of the finest tailors etc. etc.

https://www.bownsbest.com/
Dining, Living etc. etc.


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## Bertie Wooster (Feb 11, 2006)

Always liked Mr Bown's reviews. It was through his site that I cemented my taste for Thurston boxcloth braces ( although like many of us I'm sure, I'd already been buying them via other sources for many years ! ). Not sure what he actually does for a living to fund his sartorial habit, I rather doubt his site provides any income as it is, sadly, updated rather infrequently. Love his taste in fishtail trousers.


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## comrade (May 26, 2005)

*Patrick James , Give me a Break!*

I posted a comment to this effect last year when this piece appeared
in the Forum. Couldtn't find it. I do not have personal knowledge of
their MTM program but the store in San Francisco, and several others
I have visited in California reeks of semi-trad mediocrity. Really a
combination of Joseph A Bank and the Brooks outlet. Quality is
not their strong point in RTW, nor is style. Their merchandise
is the type one finds in the surviving men's stores in small 
cities... A few Hickeys perhaps, but mostly no name cheap merchandise
that is on the conservative side. Not the place I'd go to for MTM.


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## encooper (Sep 9, 2004)

This site has been around for years with, as pointed out by BW, is not updated frequently. I am pretty sure he is independent. 

As for the review of Patrick James, I think that Bown was looking for a "standard" American MTM suit. I think half of the non-chain Men's Stores in America offer the H. Freeman MTM service (which by the way has not been manufactured in Philadelphia for several years).


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have grave suspicions about somebody who appears to go about the Row as a tart buying a suit here and a suit there.

Is he being paid/conning houses into accommodating him? Strangely after posting the original reviews he has gone silent....

Charlatan?


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

A little googling revealed:

BOWN BUT NOT OUT

It is good to know that not every clergyman who has resigned from the Church of England is on his uppers. Fr Francis Bown, former parish priest of St Stephen’s , Hull, and founder of the modestly titled ‘Ecclesia’, is clearly thriving. Admirers who have faithfully followed Frank from his days tricycling down Jesus Lane in a frock coat will not be at all surprised at his latest enterprise.

"‘Bown’s Best’ is a website dedicated to his reviews of top hotels and restaurants, most recently on the French Riviera. Under the heading ‘Fine Dining and Feisty Females’ (a reference to his great aunt) we are welcomed to the Hotel La Reserve Beaulieu where those of us tired by cheap plonk can sup a 1964 Romance Conti for a mere £2,500 or a 1970 Margaux for a trifling £670.

Bown notes that the restaurant is filled with ‘those who go to great lengths to appear elegant’. Which leads us on to Frank’s other website, ‘Bown’s Bespoke’, where pictures of our immaculately attired host leads us through the top Gents Outfitters for every conceivable item.

Gentlemen will appreciate particularly the advice that buttons for braces should be inside the trousers at the back, ‘so that when I drive the Royce I do not leave impressions on the leather seats’. Quite so."


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Wow...

Sophistication, I'm going to start calling you "Father Borrelli."


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

RJman said:


> Wow...
> 
> Sophistication, I'm going to start calling you "Father Borrelli."


LOL, I just bought some more Attolini and some crockett and jones shoes; so you can call me "Father 'US padded' neo classically Neapolitan"

Are you "Father Savile Row"?

Peace...Soph

---Just say No to safari jackets 

RJ Man's contribution to life itself (at least for us):
Cool shoes, paraphernalia & desiderata 
https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=9013&page=51


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

maxnharry said:


> A little googling revealed:
> 
> BOWN BUT NOT OUT
> 
> ...


Then even as a former man of the cloth how is he able to afford such pleasures of the flesh as Saville Row suits and fine dining etc????


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

No wonder, that he reminded me of Father Dowling (Tom Boswell)


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

GBR said:


> Then even as a former man of the cloth how is he able to afford such pleasures of the flesh as Saville Row suits and fine dining etc????


Not every order in the Catholic Church requires a vow of poverty and I suspect other sects are similar. Out of curiosity, I sent Mr. Bown an email and inquired about how he got started writing and he shared that he wrote (writes?) for Reuters and others)


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

GBR said:


> Then even as a former man of the cloth how is he able to afford such pleasures of the flesh as Saville Row suits and fine dining etc????


If you read the reviews, you will see that money is a concern with some of the purchases - he looked specifically for a cheap place to have a topcoat made up and purchased shirts with detachable collars and cuffs to prolong their useful lives.


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## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

GBR said:


> Then even as a former man of the cloth how is he able to afford such pleasures of the flesh as Saville Row suits and fine dining etc????


It is quite possible that Mr Bown has private means which allow him to fund his interests; in the event that this is not the case, no doubt he does as many of us and (i) focuses his expenditure on the small pleasures of dining and dressing whilst economising in other areas of his life or (ii) strictly budgets for, and rations, his pleasures. He would not be alone amongst men of the cloth in doing the latter, and with entire propriety; as maxnharry correctly notes, Anglican clergy do not serve under a vow of poverty.

Anthony.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

Cantabrigian said:


> If you read the reviews, you will see that money is a concern with some of the purchases - he looked specifically for a cheap place to have a topcoat made up and purchased shirts with detachable collars and cuffs to prolong their useful lives.


Priests whilst in service hardly have a large stipend to say the very least so whilst there might be some economy in certain items the five bespoke suits and what he calls "the Royce" do not sit comfortably.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

He writes professionally for Reuters and other publications and may also have other means that we are unaware of. The suits from the Row obviously cost what they cost, but that Rolls probably is less than a new Honda.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

GBR said:


> Priests whilst in service hardly have a large stipend to say the very least so whilst there might be some economy in certain items the five bespoke suits and what he calls "the Royce" do not sit comfortably.


The former Father Bown is not listed in the current edition of Crockford's Clerical Directory (2006/2007) which would suggest that he is not 'retired'. It is likely rather that he resigned his orders under the 'Ordination of Women Measure' which would have entitled him to a moderate compensation payment based on the stipend he could have expected had he remained in the church. This would have allowed him to make some investment for his future or to establish himself in a new profession. I am pleased he does not seem to be suffering as a result of his decision.

So far as I am aware it is only members of religious orders who take vows of poverty and there is no restriction in either the Anglican or Roman communions on the 'wealth' of the clergy.

Trimmer


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

After all, he is a man of the _cloth_. 

It is probably worth noting that ecclesiastic wear is often bespoke.


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

I'm sorry, but if you google "1963 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud III" you'll find that his 'Royce' is rather more expensive than the average Honda. It looks in excellent condition, so I believe it would retail for around £50,000.

He strikes me as a highly objectionable man - his reviews purport to provide a genuine insight into various gentlemen's outfitters, but seem little more than a vehicle for his own ego. Further, his laying down of the law on clothing etiquette is often misguided. I have no idea about the connection to the Church, but frankly his constant references to the 'Royce', his time at Oxford and general munificence doesn't really ring true.

He appears to be nothing more than a second rate Michael Winner - also achieving the dubious honour of being even more loathsome than his odious competitor.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Henry said:


> He appears to be nothing more than a second rate Michael Winner - also achieving the dubious honour of being even more loathsome than his odious competitor.


But isn't it worth it all just to have that picture of his deadpan wattle bulging out of some spivvy Interno 8 multiple-button collar shirt with hydra-headed tie?


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## Morris (Feb 13, 2006)

I enjoy the site (had it bookmarked for quite awhile). 

Bown states his opinion's (rightly or wrongly) with crispness and authority.


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

I have to say, on some level I agree with you.

It's a curious thing that quite often, it's the worst, most objectionable writers who most grab our attention. Michael Winner, Dan Brown, Francis Bown. I'm not sure it's quite paradoxical, but I'm sure my subconscious is taking some kind of sick pleasure from the way I am drawn to them.

Like films that are so bad they're good, like the aching but oh so satisfying burn after a good session in the gym, I love the feeling of rage I get from reading them.

I'd like to think, however, that Francis Bown is not so sharp as to be drawing this reaction intentionally. I hope I'm right - I hate it when the joke's on me.

ps he mentions both Oxford and Cambridge as alma maters (almae matri?) on his sister websites - this is not impossible but it's a little odd not to explain the prima facie confusion. Slightly odd.

pps I somehow have a suspicion, from the apparent tongue in cheek nature of the reference to Father Francis, that it is a mere coincidence of naming, and that the article is a knowing joke playing on the unliklihood of 'their' Francis becoming such a man of leisure.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

Henry said:


> I'm sorry, but if you google "1963 Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud III" you'll find that his 'Royce' is rather more expensive than the average Honda. It looks in excellent condition, so I believe it would retail for around £50,000.
> 
> He strikes me as a highly objectionable man - his reviews purport to provide a genuine insight into various gentlemen's outfitters, but seem little more than a vehicle for his own ego. Further, his laying down of the law on clothing etiquette is often misguided. I have no idea about the connection to the Church, but frankly his constant references to the 'Royce', his time at Oxford and general munificence doesn't really ring true.
> 
> He appears to be nothing more than a second rate Michael Winner - also achieving the dubious honour of being even more loathsome than his odious competitor.


I certainly have no idea about what the market will bear in the UK, but a quick look on eBay showed completed Silver Cloud III auctions ranging from $15-$30K. I have no connection to the man, but find his reviews rather amusing. If is able to generate an income out of them, bully for him.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Henry said:


> ps he mentions both Oxford and Cambridge as alma maters (almae matri?) on his sister websites - this is not impossible but it's a little odd not to explain the prima facie confusion. Slightly odd.
> 
> pps I somehow have a suspicion, from the apparent tongue in cheek nature of the reference to Father Francis, that it is a mere coincidence of naming, and that the article is a knowing joke playing on the unliklihood of 'their' Francis becoming such a man of leisure.


Francis Bown attended Jesus College, Cambridge (BA 1972 MA 1974) and Jesus College, Oxford (BA 1975 MA 1978). He was ordained deacon in 1977 and priest in 1978.

Trimmer


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> After all, he is a man of the _cloth_.
> 
> It is probably worth noting that ecclesiastic wear is often bespoke.


The Devil Wears Prada;
God Wears Henry Poole?


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Holdfast said:


> The Devil Wears Prada;
> God Wears Henry Poole?


It would have been Adeney & Boutroy, before it was swallowed into Davies & Son.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Holdfast said:


> The Devil Wears Prada;
> God Wears Henry Poole?


If I were you, I would copyright this as soon as possible, and then get on the phone with Angus Cundy and start talking price.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

manton said:


> If I were you, I would copyright this as soon as possible, and then get on the phone with Angus Cundy and start talking price.


Along the lines of the award-winning "If Huntsman had been in the Garden of Eden, Adam would have been the first gentleman"?


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

RJman said:


> Along the lines of the award-winning "If Huntsman had been in the Garden of Eden, Adam would have been the first gentleman"?


Yes, but better. Much better.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

manton said:


> If I were you, I would copyright this as soon as possible, and then get on the phone with Angus Cundy and start talking price.


Thanks. Always knew I had a second career in advertising...

... do you think the competition would buy a line like "... but Jesus wore Anderson & Sheppard"?


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Holdfast said:


> ... do you think the competition would buy a line like "... but Jesus wore Anderson & Sheppard"?


Not sure that would work. In the popular imagination, Jesus dressed like a hippie. But God? No one has any idea what He wears.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

manton said:


> Not sure that would work. In the popular imagination, Jesus dressed like a hippie. But God? No one has any idea what he wears.


With all that drape, A&S is virtually in hippie territory already, isn't it?

/ducks to avoid the heavy incoming fire!

I've clearly lost my touch. Better stick to the day job!


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Can you imagine writing a caption for this picture. That stance and his eye direction. A bit too stripey with the suit and shirt both, a 3 button peak is also a strong statment, but to each his own.
Here is his opening pic:


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

^ picking up the biblical theme:

Forgive me Lord for I have sinned. I will never wear a shirt and suit of the same width stripe again.

(actually I don't think he looks bad at all, but with hands clasped in near prayer-pose, I couldn't resist!)


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## Bertie Wooster (Feb 11, 2006)

RJman said:


> It would have been *Adeney* & Boutroy, before it was swallowed into Davies & Son.


Are they in any way related to Swaine, Adeney & Brigg ?


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

manton said:


> Not sure that would work. In the popular imagination, Jesus dressed like a hippie. But God? No one has any idea what he wears.


According to Dogma, God is a she and wears a short white dress with a ruffled skirt. Sometimes, she appears in male form, but then she is attacked by hockey stick-wielding minions of disgruntled angels.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Bertie Wooster said:


> Are they in any way related to Swaine, Adeney & Brigg ?


I don't know. Ask God. Or Ron Pescod.


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## Bertie Wooster (Feb 11, 2006)

RJman said:


> I don't know. *Ask God.* Or Ron Pescod.


Hmmm, your right, Andy might well know ! :icon_smile_big:


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

He dresses like a spiv!

According to an article I found on the internet, he is also extremely camp - a rather amusing trait for a priest!


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## Charley (Feb 8, 2005)

About the auto:

Lots of them listed on Hemmings.
Quite a few of the 70's models in the $15,000 - $25,000 range.
Hemmings Listings

Here is one 1960 model for $12,500. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/rolls_royce/silver_cloud_ii/195575.html


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

His is a Silver Cloud III - the cheapest listing at your link is $45,000. The cheapest model I could find in England was £39,000.

That, combined with the considerable (gallons per mile, not miles per gallon) running costs, makes it an unlikely car for a priest living off a stipend. He clearly has some kind of private income.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Just read the good former Fr. Bown's review of his Lock hat. I am surprised that for such a connoisseur he merely specified rabbit fur felt. I would have thought that he might have opted for a beaver felt hat. A price GBP 150 for rabbit fur felt strikes me as bit on the high side. I have with me at this moment a rabbit fur felt fedora that was bespoke for me by Baron's California Hats for $140 about five or six years ago. I am sure prices are up, but I still think for the price he paid he should have gotten a rabbit-beaver blend.

I must say I rather enjoyed his stuff. If he left the ministry of the C. of E. over the ordination of women, then he's really my kind of guy...or the kind of guy I might be if I had more money!


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

The Reverend Francis Bown MA (Cantab) MA (Oxon) in happier times.

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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

"A price GBP 150 for rabbit fur felt strikes me as bit on the high side."

Lock's is the hat equivalent of John Lobb London. You pay more. On the other hand, they did give me a flat cap once when they sent the wrong item.


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## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

Henry said:


> He dresses like a spiv!
> 
> According to an article I found on the internet, he is also extremely camp - a rather amusing trait for a priest!


That seems to be not an uncommon trait in Anglo-Catholic clergy, and certainly part of the stereotype - which I have no doubt that many of them are entirely conscious of, and play up to!

From Trimmer's picture I should say Fr. Bown is firmly of the Anglo-Catholic mould, and probably "Western Use" at that, given the lace alb, fiddleback chasuble and "Big six" flanking the Tabernacle on the very Tridentine altar.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

*Francis Bown at Cambridge*

_"Whereas most undergraduates begin naive and gauche, subsequently going through rapid changes in appearance and attitude, Frank appeared in Cambridge fully formed. He began as he meant to go on. Dressed in dark suit, looking, as he always did, like a bank clerk, he was confident and independent. . . . _
_Often dressed in mortar-board and gown, and occasionally riding a tricycle, Frank Bown was a familiar Cambridge figure. But, unlike so many undergraduates, he had absolutely no pretensions or airs. ... Frank seemed inevitably destined for teaching or the church - what else could he have done? Possibly MI5 . . . Everything was done with such humour and a great deal of gin . . . He was of course an extreme Anglo-Catholic. His rooms in Jesus Lane had six baroque candlesticks and an (empty) monstrance on the mantelpiece."_ (Gavin Stamp)

Trimmer


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## Bertie Wooster (Feb 11, 2006)

Anthony Jordan said:


> ....... given the lace alb, fiddleback chasuble and "Big six" flanking the Tabernacle on the very Tridentine altar.


Ummmm, you what ?


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Anthony Jordan said:


> That seems to be not an uncommon trait in Anglo-Catholic clergy, and certainly part of the stereotype - which I have no doubt that many of them are entirely conscious of, and play up to!


Ain't that the truth!



> From Trimmer's picture I should say Fr. Bown is firmly of the Anglo-Catholic mould, and probably "Western Use" at that, given the lace alb, fiddleback chasuble and "Big six" flanking the Tabernacle on the very Tridentine altar.


I am surprised that you didn't also note that the good father had a biretta on his head. I would be be surprised if in his ecclesiastical days he didn't transcend mere Anglo-Catholicism and was an outright Anglo-Papalist (a curious subset of the C. of E. that have probably all jumped ship since the triumph of the feminist heresy).


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

*Must we bring religion into this????*

Why to I feel that one of the mods may well send this to the Interchange, where religion, politics and the World Cup are all fair game?


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Well, let's just say he is (was!) very 'high church' - something many Anglicans love... visit Chiswick Parish Church for a good example. My Cathlolic mother (sounds like a mnemonic!) loved it.

But:

"Often dressed in mortar-board and gown, and occasionally riding a tricycle, Frank Bown was a familiar Cambridge figure. But, unlike so many undergraduates..."

sounds very dubious - surely a massive faux pas for any undergraduate to ever wear a mortar board. Maybe once he was at Oxford and already a Cantab, but before graduation? I fear this source has discredited either himself or Father Francis...


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Yeah, I wondered about that too. Any undergraduate in my day who went about Oxford in his mortarboard would have been branded a total idiot by all. Unlike the gown, which was worn constantly, the mortarboard was reserved for strictly sub-fusc occasions.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Henry said:


> surely a massive faux pas for any undergraduate to ever wear a mortar board. Maybe once he was at Oxford and already a Cantab, but before graduation?


The faux pas is to call it a _mortar board_. At Cambridge they are called _square caps_.

Trimmer


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Trimmer said:


> The faux pas is to call it a _mortar board_. At Cambridge they are called _square caps_.


Oh U!


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## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

To pick up a few points:

Jan - I didn't mention headgear as I wasn't sure, from the way he was wearing it tipped back on his head, whether it was a biretta (which would have supported my contention) or a Canterbury Cap (which wouldn't)!

Bertie - apologies for not explaining better. The red and gold over-garment he is wearing (a little like an apron but actually closer to a poncho in its derivation) is a chasuble and is of the shape known as "fiddleback" because of its resemblance to the back of a violin. (Other shapes are "Spanish", which I believe has straight sides like a tabard and "Gothic", which is the full "poncho" shape.) The long white sleeve garment he is wearing underneath it is an alb and, as you will notice, is heavily decorated with lace. [See, it *is* about clothes, honest!]

Behind him, the altar has six large candlesticks (known as the "big six") and between them a "cupboard" (for want of a better term) for containing the consecrated bread or "host".

The relevance of all this (which is limited, and for which I apologise) is that it follows traditional Roman Catholic usage (that is to say, the practice prior to the liturgical reforms that followed the second Vatican Council) very closely and therefore provides clear indications of where Fr. Bown "comes from". Catholicism of this variety, and its ancillaries, are know as "Tridentine" after the Council of Trent, which reformed the Roman Rite in the sixteenth century.

"Western Use" is the term that A-C's of this school apply to ceremonial deriving from Rome. If Fr. Bown was of the other flavour of Anglo-Catholicism, which harks back to pre-Reformation English practice ("English Use"), the details would have been different - gothic chasuble, plain alb (no lace), two candlesticks on the altar, a hanging "pyx" or wall "aumbry" rather than a tabernacle, no lace on the altar frontal, and possibly also curtains around the altar on "riddel posts" surmounted by angels.

Jan/Henry - albeit not a son of either Oxford or Cambridge, my understanding is that there is nothing in regulations preventing undergraduates from wearing 
trenchers (there's a word you don't hear often) but merely that they have fallen largely into disuse and thus that there was nothing stopping Mr Bown from resurrecting the practice, as was done at Durham in my time there, for example. (Here is an interesting link on the subject from the excellent Cambridge University Heraldry and Genealogy society: ) (See - *another* clothing reference!)

From Mr Stamp's description, Fr. Bown sounds excellent Young Fogey material...


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Anthony Jordan said:


> To pick up a few points:
> 
> Jan - I didn't mention headgear as I wasn't sure, from the way he was wearing it tipped back on his head, whether it was a biretta (which would have supported my contention) or a Canterbury Cap (which wouldn't)!


Canterbury Caps are a new one on me despite having spent about 26 years of my life seriously involved in C. of. E., Episcopalian and Traditional Anglican circles. Can you describe them or post a link to an illustration of one? (I suppose I can do a net search to the same end as well.)


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

Re: Canterbury caps

I don't know if this is correct or not but Google Image returned these:


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I noted that one of the illustrations of the Canterbury cap shows it being worn by the martyred Archibishop Thomas Cranmer. Given how manifestly extravagantly High Church Fr. Bown was during his priestly ministry, I doubt that he would wear anything associated so Protestant a figure as Cranmer. I'd put my money on the fact that he's wearing a biretta in the photo above.


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## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

Cantabrigian said:


> Re: Canterbury caps
> 
> I don't know if this is correct or not but Google Image returned these:


It's certainly along those lines; Percy Dearmer et. al. resurrected them somewhat in the late 1890s. Here is a picture of Dearmer wearing his:


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I think I may still have a copy of Dearmer's "The Parson's Handbook" somewhere in my personal library. Of course, Dearmer was one of the foremost advocates of the the Sarum Rite, whereas Fr. Bown looks like a Tridentinist if ever I saw one. I still bet that hat is a biretta.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

JLibourel said:


> I think I may still have a copy of Dearmer's "The Parson's Handbook" somewhere in my personal library. Of course, Dearmer was one of the foremost advocates of the the Sarum Rite, whereas Fr. Bown looks like a Tridentinist if ever I saw one. I still bet that hat is a biretta.


The interesting things is that the biretta, the Canterbury cap and the square cap (mortar board) are all in a sense 'the same thing'.

This is what Percy Dearmer says in _The Parson's Handbook_: "What is now termed the 'Canterbury' cap was the shape in use at the time of the English Reformation, as we can see in the portraits of Cranmer, Fox and others. In the seventeenth century in England it developed into a square of limp material with a tuft on the top, and then into the college cap or 'mortar board'. In the seventeenth century, after the Council of Trent, the less comely biretta with 'horns' developed on the continent. This was because the cap came to be worn during services in the Roman rite and in this shape it could be taken on and off quickly. The Canterbury cap is the most comely form . . . ".

Trimmer


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Sounds like a discussion of the differences between a fedora and a trilby.


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## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

JLibourel said:


> I think I may still have a copy of Dearmer's "The Parson's Handbook" somewhere in my personal library. Of course, Dearmer was one of the foremost advocates of the the Sarum Rite, whereas Fr. Bown looks like a Tridentinist if ever I saw one. I still bet that hat is a biretta.


I think you are probably right on both counts; I put the difficulty in determining what it is down to his wearing it on the back of his head.


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

*Holy moly - he's back!*

Desperate for a laugh, I returned to the Bownster's pages, and was staggered to see that he's updated his site at last - this time to include some summer suits. Long-time 'Bowner' fans will not be disappointed:

References to 'the Royce': check
References to Hotel de Paris, Monte Carlo: check
Savile Row 'bed-hopping': check
Pompous, self-regarding tone: check
Ego self-massage: check

https://www.bownsbespoke.com/suitssummer.htm


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

ashie259 said:


> Desperate for a laugh, I returned to the Bownster's pages, and was staggered to see that he's updated his site at last - this time to include some summer suits. Long-time 'Bowner' fans will not be disappointed:
> 
> References to 'the Royce': check
> References to Hotel de Paris, Monte Carlo: check
> ...


Usual Bown narrative which adds nothing new to his other writings.

It would be far better were he to have soemthing to say about the suits or even offer a comparison.


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## Edouard (May 30, 2006)

Trimmer said:


> Francis Bown attended Jesus College, Cambridge (BA 1972 MA 1974) and Jesus College, Oxford (BA 1975 MA 1978). He was ordained deacon in 1977 and priest in 1978.
> 
> Trimmer


And he shows off about being an Oxon? Weird man. Obviously needs a head check if he thinks it's the superior place :icon_smile_big:


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

*Imperial hat measurement*



GBR said:


> Usual Bown narrative which adds nothing new


Well, I at least learned how the imperial hat measurement is worked out!

Trimmer


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## Des Esseintes (Aug 16, 2005)

Just took a look at Bown's summer suits "experience" - nothing new indeed, just that his desire to drop names and places that was rather amusing for a while is starting to become a bit tedious.

Why is it that the good Bown always reminds me of Anthony Blanche in the TV series adaptation of "Brideshead revisited"? 

dE


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

Does LP make anything decent in that weight?


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## jar2574 (Aug 30, 2007)

I found Bown's site a while ago and found it interesting. If nothing else, he gave a small sample of Saville Row.

If anyone knows of a cite with better reviews of Saville Row suits, with photos to boot, I'd love directions.

I've scoured Ask Andy, and the links do not work in most of the threads offering photo comparisions.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Anthony Jordan said:


> Jan/Henry - albeit not a son of either Oxford or Cambridge, my understanding is that there is nothing in regulations preventing undergraduates from wearing
> trenchers (there's a word you don't hear often) but merely that they have fallen largely into disuse and thus that there was nothing stopping Mr Bown from resurrecting the practice, as was done at Durham in my time there, for example. (Here is an interesting link on the subject from the excellent Cambridge University Heraldry and Genealogy society: ) (See - *another* clothing reference!)


This is correct. In fact, it was only around 50 years ago that the wearing of caps at Oxbridge was made non-complusory for everyone. Before that, you had to wear gowns and caps, even at night. Now, there is this misunderstanding that undergraduates are denied caps which is simply not true. At Oxford, you wear caps outside but take them off inside and at Cambridge you may wear the square cap or no headwear at all. In the past Cambridge MAs who are not in residence were allowed to wear a top hat in place of the trencher at Cambridge.

https://www.srcf.ucam.org/cucags/home.htm

Strange that Bown read both at Cambridge and Oxford. If he had incoporated as MA at Oxford, it would have saved him time and money for a DPhil!


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Funny how these threads get revived. When I "went up" 45 years ago, caps were only worn for ceremonial occasions when sub-fusc was required. Gowns were required almost constantly, though--for meetings with tutors, lectures, classes, meals in hall and more formal situations like Schools. I don't know if that still hold true.

Oh, I just saw I said much the same thing on post #50 in this thread. The memory dims after 2 1/2 years of this stuff.


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## Leon (Apr 16, 2005)

This photo has it all: biretta, top hat, frock coat, cloak...



Leon


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

The Reverend Francis Bown MA (Cantab) MA (Oxon) in happier times _(see post 42_).


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## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

Leon said:


> This photo has it all: biretta, top hat, frock coat, cloak...
> 
> Leon


I have my doubts about the black bow tie, though!


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Leon said:


> This photo has it all: biretta, top hat, frock coat, cloak...
> 
> Leon


He would have done well to wear bands as well.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Leon said:


> This photo has it all: biretta, top hat, frock coat, cloak...
> 
> Leon


The photo link is broke. Could you post the pic again? I must save it for propriety...


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

Trimmer said:


> The former Father Bown is not listed in the current edition of Crockford's Clerical Directory (2006/2007) which would suggest that he is not 'retired'. It is likely rather that he resigned his orders under the 'Ordination of Women Measure' which would have entitled him to a moderate compensation payment based on the stipend he could have expected had he remained in the church. This would have allowed him to make some investment for his future or to establish himself in a new profession. I am pleased he does not seem to be suffering as a result of his decision.
> 
> So far as I am aware it is only members of religious orders who take vows of poverty and there is no restriction in either the Anglican or Roman communions on the 'wealth' of the clergy.
> 
> Trimmer


I doubt that Fr. Bown's name would be listed in an Anglican directory since he is now with the Church of Rome.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Trimmer said:


> The former Father Bown is not listed in the current edition of Crockford's Clerical Directory (2006/2007) which would suggest that he is not 'retired'. It is likely rather that he resigned his orders under the 'Ordination of Women Measure' which would have entitled him to a moderate compensation payment based on the stipend he could have expected had he remained in the church. This would have allowed him to make some investment for his future or to establish himself in a new profession. I am pleased he does not seem to be suffering as a result of his decision.
> 
> So far as I am aware it is only members of religious orders who take vows of poverty and there is no restriction in either the Anglican or Roman communions on the 'wealth' of the clergy.
> 
> Trimmer





Joe Frances said:


> I doubt that Fr. Bown's name would be listed in an Anglican directory since he is now with the Church of Rome.


That's the point. He is not listed so he cannot simply have retired but must have resigned his orders.


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