# What is "Cocktail Attire"?



## joshmitra (Jun 6, 2009)

Hey all,
I recently got an invitation for a three day wedding in Napa Valley. The dress code for the Friday night reception says "Cocktail Attire". What exactly does this mean?

Also, part of the festivities include wine tasting. Is there an unwritten dress code when doing this? 

Thanks for any help!


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Cocked hat and tailcoat.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Josh:

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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

Cocktail attire means, for the male, suit and tie. A navy suit, dark tie and black leather would be appropriate.

There is no dress code for wine tasting. If you going on a tour of local wineries for the tasting wear what is appropriate for the group.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Cocktail attire usually means either a lemon/lime/olive/onion/cherry or a little parasol.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

After viewing the various previous threads on this subject, I'd say "cocktail attire" is a term currently in flux - which is to say it means (for us guys) whatever the person who wrote the invitation _thinks _it means. That's not a lot of help. I'd ask the host.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I generally assume it means dark suit with a tie.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

DougNZ said:


> Cocktail attire means, for the male, suit and tie. A navy suit, dark tie and black leather would be appropriate.
> 
> There is no dress code for wine tasting. If you going on a tour of local wineries for the tasting wear what is appropriate for the group.


I like the black leather part. Can the whip be in a contrasting color with studs? Must it be Jack boots or will black Chukkas suffice?


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> I like the black leather part. Can the whip be in a contrasting color with studs? Must it be Jack boots or will black Chukkas suffice?


All this standing too close to hot models is sizzling your brain, AK.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Ditch the dark!*

Let's be very clear on one thing: This event will be in the Napa Valley of California, not in the Park Avenue penthouse of Manhattan. I'd say that a light sport coat and darker trousers with either an open Oxford BD shirt or colored dress shirt and frivolous tie would hit the mark handily. After all, it will be summer in a few weeks, which means that the sun will not set until around 8:30 p. m. in that locale. Somber evening-appropriate attire need not apply:cool2:


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## OldSchoolCharm (Apr 12, 2010)

If someone told me cocktail attire, I would assume polo and penny loafers. 

Never would I guess a suit unless it was very high end. I'd ask others who go there.


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## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

A mess?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Ask the host. Even "business casual" is very vague these days.


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## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

For what it's worth--which, I'll tell you in advance, is absolutely nothing--I've just looked up "Cocktail Dress" in my copy of Emily Post's Etiquette. The index points to pages 48-49, which lists brief definitions of invitation dress codes. Despite the index, "cocktail dress" is not referred to or described anywhere. So much for Emily Post (this time).


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

I have been to several events that were "cocktail attire." The women were in dresses and the men all wore jackets (mostly blazers or sport coats) and ties. The ties got looser as the night went on.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Wear a blazer. You ought to wear a necktie but you would probably be the only man there doing so if you did.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

DougNZ said:


> All this standing too close to hot models is sizzling your brain, AK.


Nah. I lived through the '60's. I came to this model photography thing pre-sizzled. :drunken_smilie:


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## Casual_yet_trying (Mar 25, 2010)

Accroding to the 2008 version of "How to be A Gentleman" cocktail attire is defined as "dark suit" or "dressy sportcoat"


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

Cocktail attire is dark suits with ties for the men and short evening dresses for the ladies.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*In town, maybe . . .*



GBR said:


> Cocktail attire is dark suits with ties for the men and short evening dresses for the ladies.


. . . but not in rural CA!

For those attempting to enforce UK sensibilities in this matter, let me ask: Do you wear a dark suit for drinks at someone's country house? I stress "house" rather than "manor" here, as one assumes that everyone will change to more formal attire at the latter,_ à la_ "Gosford Park":wink2:


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## Casual_yet_trying (Mar 25, 2010)

Blueboy1938 said:


> . . . but not in rural CA!
> 
> For those attempting to enforce UK sensibilities in this matter, let me ask: Do you wear a dark suit for drinks at someone's country house? I stress "house" rather than "manor" here, as one assumes that everyone will change to more formal attire at the latter,_ à la_ "Gosford Park":wink2:


It's still a evening/night recption. I find it hard to believe any reception after 5pm to not require a nice sportcoat at the VERY least.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

The definition of "Cocktail Attire" is not nebulous, but well defined:
*DAY *or *EVENING INFORMAL *(Don't think casual!) also COCKTAIL, or BUSINESS ATTIRE: This requires a business suit, necktie, lace-up shoes, and for evening occasions a non-button-down collar dress shirt. Make certain that the person sending out the invitations really means informal and not casual since this is a common misconception!​It's as JerseyJohn points out the confusion of the host that's the problem.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

Casual_yet_trying said:


> It's still a evening/night recption. I find it hard to believe any reception after 5pm to not require a nice sportcoat at the VERY least.


Yes, that is what I said in my previous post:tongue2:

My assumption is that OP's indication of a "3-day wedding" was to start off with a Friday evening "reception." There being no indication that it would be preceded by the actual marriage ceremony, the fact that it looks like it will be in the summer, or at least late spring, and is occurring in a *VERY* casual area in rural California, i. e., Napa Valley, the rigors of an urban sensibility are not appropriate. This is the wine country, folks, not the heart of the San Francisco financial district on a post-work Friday evening.

Obviously, the suggestions to contact the host are spot on. Maybe the plan IS for a swanky, pseudo-cosmopolitan ambiance all that way into the hinterland, but I seriously doubt it.

Cocktail attire in a city apartment or swank commercial venue: Dark suit, etc.

Cocktail attire at the yacht club: Blazer, slacks, open shirt, boat shoes sans socks.

Cocktail attire on a summery evening in rural Napa Valley: Light sport coat, dark(er) trousers, nice but casual leather, tie optional, summer colors - please:icon_headagainstwal


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

"I like the black leather part. Can the whip be in a contrasting color with studs? Must it be Jack boots or will black Chukkas suffice? "

Obviously you don't watch Late night tv. This is the appropriate leather attire (this only applies to Alex, not the OP-unless part of the party includes certain SFO night spots):

Istanbul





Leather Boy Raffle


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Will said:


> Wear a blazer. You ought to wear a necktie but you would probably be the only man there doing so if you did.


I would defer to Brother Will as to correct style in his neck of the woods (finished with some silk, of course)


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

As Andy, GBR and others point out, "cocktail attire" is a very specific dress code. It is not some sort of flexible assumption that can vary with the locale, venue, etc.
As also previously pointed out, the host's understanding of what cocktail attire is may or may not be correct. This can (and often does) cause confusion.

One would hope, though, that someone planning a _three-day_ wedding, and who specified "cocktail attire" on the invitations would either already have knowledge of what the term entails, or would have taken the time to confirm its meaning. 
Usually a wedding of this nature is a carefully planned affair, and not something put together willy-nilly, without thought.

Also, the Napa Valley is not exactly "farm country." While it is indeed an agricultural area, some of the world's finest wines are grown there, it is home to top-level restaurants and it hosts very sophisticated gatherings. An elaborate wedding (three days, mind you) in the Napa Valley should not be considered an invitation to bumpkin-land!


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## JustJosh (Nov 25, 2009)

My wife tends to use the term "Cocktail Attire" when writing invitations for after dusk adult parties (mind out of the gutter boys!)
Ladies wear sexy cocktail type dresses, and men wear more fashion forward ensembles, sport coats, relaxed open collars, no ties usually.


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

My girlfriend and I use the term when throwing a party where ties or jackets are expected, but not to the degree that one needs to purchase a new tuxedo. Of course, we're weird and have things like "white tie parties" and sometimes we "dress for dinner". 

Thomas


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> As Andy, GBR and others point out, "cocktail attire" is a very specific dress code. It is not some sort of flexible assumption that can vary with the locale, venue, etc.
> As also previously pointed out, the host's understanding of what cocktail attire is may or may not be correct. This can (and often does) cause confusion.
> 
> One would hope, though, that someone planning a _three-day_ wedding, and who specified "cocktail attire" on the invitations would either already have knowledge of what the term entails, or would have taken the time to confirm its meaning.
> ...


Precisely because the urban standard for cocktail attire is potentially at odds with the locale, contacting the host is vital. Going with the conventional interpretation of "cocktail attire" is a dangerous game in this case.

The implication that "bumpkinland" was implied is misconstrued. I have been to cocktail receptions in Napa Valley, and a nice sport coat is what the gentry there wear to such an event, it was my observation.

Here is a cocktail event at the French Laundry, arguably one of the premier restaurants in that area. Naturally, I have no idea what, if anything, the invitation said, but this is what real people wear there:

Shot at 2010-05-31


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

Excluding actually reading the Homepage 

If I saw "Cocktail Attire" I would assume ladies to wear a Cocktail dress, and men to be dressed to similar standard. The scene from Pretty Woman showing Julia Roberts in cocktail dress, and Richard Gere in business suit strikes he as exactly appropriate.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

I'd propose that the phrase, instead of specifying a type or style of dress, in this day and age more suggests an attitude of "upscale fun". So no, it's probably not going to be shorts, flip-flops and a t-shirt, by nearly anyone's standards. On the other end of the spectrum, it's not black tie either. How would I interpret this in Napa? 1) no tie. 2) a suit would be acceptable, but probably not the norm (I'd be wearing grey glen plaid, but that's a midwestern perspective), 3) a sportcoat/blazer would probably be fine, assuming you could be casual/fun in it, 4) any reasonable coordinating shoes should be fine. Above all, it's being relaxed and sociable at the event that counts, and that will trump whatever you're wearing.


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## treydog999 (May 2, 2010)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I generally assume it means dark suit with a tie.


I have also recently received an invitation to attend a party at a social club with the same dress code. I am planning on wearing a dark suit and tie. I cant really speak to napa valley. Being a Midwesterner i have only been to California once.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Apatheticviews said:


> Excluding actually reading the Homepage
> 
> If I saw "Cocktail Attire" I would assume ladies to wear a Cocktail dress, and men to be dressed to similar standard. The scene from Pretty Woman showing Julia Roberts in cocktail dress, and Richard Gere in business suit strikes he as exactly appropriate.


The problem here is that a cocktail dress matches with a dinner jacket in formality, not with a suit. Furthermore, it is traditional to specify the male dress code, rather than the female: black tie, white tie, dress informal, etc. all refer to mens' clothing, and women match their outfits. Specifying coctail dress implies that women will be in a specific type of dress: a coctail dress, and that men have to conform their outfits to match.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

It is quite interesting to see the amount of confusion about the meaning of the term "cocktail attire" amongst members of this board, all of whom (one would presume) share a high interest in clothing. From this alone, one can imagine the befuddlement of the general public on the subject.

As I noted earlier, "cocktail attire" is a dress code, much the same as "black tie" and "white tie" are dress codes. It can be considered equivalent to "informal" attire (which unfortunately confuses many people even more than cocktail attire, with many mistakenly assuming it to mean "casual.") 

Cocktail attire is generally considered to mean dark suit for men and a cocktail dress for women.
And contrary to what one might think, cocktail attire is not restricted only to cocktail parties, nor is it called such because of women's cocktail dresses.

As with any dress code, it is not open to interpretation. It does allow some latitude, in that a dark suit can be other than black, and the necktie color is open (within reason) but the mere fact that so many people are confused about the meaning of the term does and often dress improperly does not change its definition. 
One can easily find people improperly dressed at any type of function. Most all of us have probably seen some unfortunately creative interpretations of black tie, for instance, but that does not suddenly cause us to redefine the term!


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

The following are dress codes:

*CASUAL*
sportswear

*INFORMAL*
suits or blazers

*SEMI-FORMAL*
black tie

*FORMAL*
white tie

The following are styles of dress:

*Creative Attire, Festive Dress, Party Dress, Cocktail Dress, Fancy Dress, etc.*

Each of the styles can be *FORMAL, SEMI-FORMAL, INFORMAL, or CASUAL*, depending on the circumstances.

Writing "Cocktail Dress" on an invitation gives no clue as to the formality of the event, hence the confusion.

Some people take cocktails in their shorts, others in black tie. Both would be dressed in cocktail attire correctly, depending on the formality of the occasion.

When an invitation specifies only a style of dress, but not the formality, it might as well say nothing at all.

The correct invitation invites people to an event, say: *for Cocktails* and then specifies the formality in the dress code: *Dress Informal*.

Invitations that specify only a style but not a formality assume that the attendee knows what is expected.



Checkerboard 13 said:


> And contrary to what one might think, cocktail attire is not restricted only to cocktail parties, nor is it called such because of women's cocktail dresses.


Since there is no article of dress named "cocktail" in mens dress, but there is a specific item called a "cocktail dress" for women, it follows that it is named after the women's article.



Checkerboard 13 said:


> It can be considered equivalent to "informal" attire


What you mean is that it is equivalent to "dress informal". However, "dress informal" does not include the wearing of "cocktail dresses" by ladies.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Blueboy1938 said:


> Precisely because the urban standard for cocktail attire is potentially at odds with the locale, contacting the host is vital. Going with the conventional interpretation of "cocktail attire" is a dangerous game in this case.
> 
> The implication that "bumpkinland" was implied is misconstrued. I have been to cocktail receptions in Napa Valley, and a nice sport coat is what the gentry there wear to such an event, it was my observation.
> 
> ...


I agree that it would be wise to contact the host, but not at all because there is some sort of varying standard for cocktail attire. It is a definite dress code, whether one is in the city, suburbs, countryside, or wherever. Dress codes do not fundamentally change depending on the locale. For instance, "black tie" would _not _mean a leather vest and black bolo if one were in the southwest.

Of course events requiring various dress codes may be more or less common, depending upon the location. One might presume, for instance, that it would be far more likely to be invited to several black tie events a year if one lived in Manhattan, than if one lived in Bozeman.
That does not mean that black tie (or cocktail attire) events require _different attire_ in Bozeman than in Manhattan. It simply means that that particular attire is likely to be called for less frequently, and more often a more casual attire specified (or presumed.)

The photo you posted shows a group of people who (almost to a person) are wearing casual attire. The use of this photo to attempt to define cocktail attire is, unfortunately, terribly misleading. 
To begin with, you yourself state that you have "no idea" what, if any' attire was specified on the invitation. That alone would render the photo useless as an example. 
Even if we were to have a copy of an invitation to this event, and it clearly stated "cocktail attire," the only conclusion we could draw would be that the majority of the people in the photo are inappropriately dressed.
And of course merely because an event is a cocktail party, one can not presume that cocktail attire will be specified ...nor does it mean that _whatever _happens to be worn at it is automatically "cocktail attire." (By the way, I do not believe I see any cocktails in that photo, though there are a few glasses of wine visible.)

Were I to hold a daytime, outdoor event in the Napa Valley, I would very likely specify casual attire, especially if it were on or adjacent to a lawn. Perhaps if it were a late afternoon event, held in the courtyard of a winery or manor, cocktail attire would be appropriate.

I would also caution anyone to not base their attire for a wedding in the Napa Valley upon what the local population generally wears. Unless all in attendance are local, very few will be likely to know or care about local dress norms... and ... _it's a wedding_, which (unfortunately) is one of the few remaining occasions that many people ever bother to dress for.

The event the OP was invited to is a night time reception, which is part of a three day wedding, and for which cocktail attire was specified. He asked exactly what that means. I, Andy, and others have given the correct and exact meaning. You serve only to mislead him with your presumptions which are based upon inexact notions.
You are correct, as I mentioned previously, that it would be valuable to contact the host. The reason for doing so would not be because cocktail attire has various meanings, but to confirm that the host is indeed using the term in its correct definition.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

For what it is worth, wiki forwards *Cocktail attire* to *Semi-formal*, meaning that cocktail attire really means black tie. :idea:

Although elsewhere, cocktail dress is grouped as part of a range of casual dress:

*Casual codes*

The less formal dress codes are more fluid. Their definition varies geographically and may include:
*Smart casual* (or traditional casual, [old fashioned] business casual, [new] cocktail, executive casual, corporate casual)
*Business casual* (or 'dressy', resort casual, country club, casual chic, semi-casual, neat casual)
*Leisure attire* (or Saturday casual)
*Active attire*
The term casual describes a wide variety of clothing, ranging from smart casual to active attire.

)

Also, most etiquette books advise that dress codes are not set in stone, but are only as for the pleasure of the society one interacts with.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

In these parts 'Cocktails' always meant a time: 6pm (five minutes earlier would be absurd; five minutes later would be preposterous - who said that, I forget?). It therefore implied Black Tie, the assumption being you were going on to dinner (elsewhere) afterwards rather than home again. In other words you wore for cocktails what you wore for dinner and there would be no need to specify a dress 'code'. 

That probably doesn't help at all in this case.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Bog said:


> Since there is no article of dress named "cocktail" in mens dress, but there is a specific item called a "cocktail dress" for women, it follows that it is named after the women's article.


Now that is sheer and utter nonsense! Using your logic, women might then be wearing dresses made of a rooster's feathers.
Cocktail attire is not named after an article of dress. It is one name for a particular dress code.



Bog said:


> What you mean is that it is equivalent to "dress informal". However, "dress informal" does not include the wearing of "cocktail dresses" by ladies.


Unless you are in my head (which I can assure you that both you and I may be eternally grateful that you are not) you do _not _know what I mean.

Please do not take my word on the matter, though. I would entreat you to consider the thoughts of another:

*"**DAY  *or *EVENING INFORMAL *(Don't think casual!) also COCKTAIL, or BUSINESS ATTIRE: This requires a business suit, necktie, lace-up shoes, and for evening occasions a non-button-down collar dress shirt. Make certain that the person sending out the invitations really means informal and not casual since this is a common misconception!"

Considering the source: one could almost hope that you might have come across this information previously!


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

DougNZ said:


> Cocktail attire means, for the male, suit and tie. A *navy suit*, dark tie and black leather would be appropriate.
> 
> There is no dress code for wine tasting. If you going on a tour of local wineries for the tasting wear what is appropriate for the group.


A charcoal suit is just as appropriate as a navy suit for cocktail attire.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Checkerboard 13: "Dress Informal" is what is put on an invitation when Informal dress is called for. I have on such invitation sitting on my desk right now for an event that just took place. It has nothing to do with "cocktail dresses" and no such dresses were worn by ladies.


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

Beefeater said:


> I have been to several events that were "cocktail attire." The women were in dresses and the men all wore jackets (mostly blazers or sport coats) and ties. The ties got looser as the night went on.


 But the women did not?


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Here in the Mountains of North Carolina where many of the captains of industry have summer or retirement homes Cocktail Attire is what you wear to the once or twice a week cocktail parties that go on all summer--and none of those guys is going to wear a suit. They might in Miami, but they're on extended vacation here. If it's a benefit thing, those being benifited will probably wear a suit but the rest of us will do a sport jacket or blazer, probably with a tie. If there were 100 men at our "Early Bird" cocktail party when the seasonal country club opened, maybe 5 had on suits. The ladies were all decked out, as they always are.

I know what the rules say--it's just outside of the city nobody bothers to follow them.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> Cocktail attire usually means either a lemon/lime/olive/onion/cherry or a little parasol.


If you forget the swizzle stick, the other cocktails will laugh at you!!


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Bog said:


> Checkerboard 13: "Dress Informal" is what is put on an invitation when Informal dress is called for. I have on such invitation sitting on my desk right now for an event that just took place. It has nothing to do with "cocktail dresses" and no such dresses were worn by ladies.


 I am sorry, but you are mistaken.

Please read my above reply. The quote given should help sort out the confusion for you.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

cdavant said:


> Here in the Mountains of North Carolina where many of the captains of industry have summer or retirement homes Cocktail Attire is what you wear to the once or twice a week cocktail parties that go on all summer--and none of those guys is going to wear a suit. They might in Miami, but they're on extended vacation here. If it's a benefit thing, those being benifited will probably wear a suit but the rest of us will do a sport jacket or blazer, probably with a tie. If there were 100 men at our "Early Bird" cocktail party when the seasonal country club opened, maybe 5 had on suits. The ladies were all decked out, as they always are.
> 
> I know what the rules say--it's just outside of the city nobody bothers to follow them.


 You are merely describing cocktail parties where cocktail attire is not worn. 
As I have mentioned previously, cocktail attire is not dictated as the dress, simply because it is a cocktail party, nor, in converse simply being a cocktail party does not confer the title of cocktail attire upon whatever people happen to be wearing.

"Cocktail attire" is a dress code. It (like many of the other dress codes) is commonly misunderstood by the uninformed. Unfortunately, the uninformed seem to be in the large majority these days.
To ascribe to the lowest-common-denominator (mis)understanding of a term is to err on the side of ignorance.

It is always wise to check with one's host or hostess, to discern whether they are using the term (or any one of the other dress codes) in its true meaning.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Trimmer said:


> In these parts 'Cocktails' always meant a time: 6pm (five minutes earlier would be absurd; five minutes later would be preposterous - who said that, I forget?). It therefore implied Black Tie, the assumption being you were going on to dinner (elsewhere) afterwards rather than home again. In other words you wore for cocktails what you wore for dinner and there would be no need to specify a dress 'code'.
> 
> That probably doesn't help at all in this case.


Precisely! "Cocktail attire" implies a "cocktail party", a short-ish event pre-dinner, so one would wear "out to dinner" attire, in the US a dark suit (yeah, right, and put that cap on bill forward, we're in a nice restaurant). Now the problem is: is this what one is supposed to dress for? Or is it just a party where "cocktails" will be hammered down...errrr, served?


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*It's really not that complicated.*

Reciting "the rules" will not work for OP in this case. That's all just about anyone is saying here. "Contact the host" is vital, especially since guests will be traveling to this particular event (or they would already know what is expected). In all my posts, I have acknowledged that there is a very specific meaning for "cocktail attire." However, it is only reasonable to also acknowledge that there is room for interpretation or even downright confusion - hence the "contact the host" imperative.

The implication that, somehow, those of us who are actually trying to help OP avoid _faux pas_, rather than arguing the fine points of dress code definitions, are all ignoramuses is not particularly helpful to OP. Pretty much all of the "helpers rather than hair-splitters" suggest that reality should rule here and that contacting the host is really the only way to go. We, or at least those of us who have attended events in the Napa Valley, are suggesting that - in that locale - "cocktail attire" is more likely to mean, to the actual people attending events so defined, something closer to high-end casual than a business suit.

So, no one is really committing heresy here; just trying to be helpful in a reality-based way:icon_smile:


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Audi S5 TC said:


> A charcoal suit is just as appropriate as a navy suit for cocktail attire.


I disagree. The navy suit follows black tie in terms of evening formality and everything else follows after.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Blueboy1938 said:


> Reciting "the rules" will not work for OP in this case. That's all just about anyone is saying here. "Contact the host" is vital, especially since guests will be traveling to this particular event (or they would already know what is expected). In all my posts, I have acknowledged that there is a very specific meaning for "cocktail attire." However, it is only reasonable to also acknowledge that there is room for interpretation or even downright confusion - hence the "contact the host" imperative.


I am fairly certain that there was only one three day wedding extravaganza in Napa this past weekend and I know one of the wedding party. The actual dress was blazers without neckties. Many shirts were untucked.

One effective guideline I have learned is to never expect a California host to have any idea what she is suggesting when she uses any term connected with dress.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

This thread raises the point of the danger inherent in traveling out west.


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

Bog said:


> The problem here is that a cocktail dress matches with a dinner jacket in formality, not with a suit. Furthermore, it is traditional to specify the male dress code, rather than the female: black tie, white tie, dress informal, etc. all refer to mens' clothing, and women match their outfits. Specifying coctail dress implies that women will be in a specific type of dress: a coctail dress, and that men have to conform their outfits to match.


This is why I placed the caveat at the beginning of the statement. Option a) being "contact the host" and option b) being "read the Homepage"

Cocktail attire may indeed be a specific formality of dress, but... it has been my experience people forget that two words when placed closely together will often have a different connotation than when separated. The hostess may indeed want you to show up in nothing more than a Black Tie (being a naught little minx that she is), or she may be inviting you to Cocktails. Not thinking it through, she will write "Black Tie" and "Cocktail Attire" resulting in you being overdressed for the occasion.

I figure it never hurts to call and ask what the host's wife (or hostess) will be wearing on the pretense of having your escort not in something too similar


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## David_E (Apr 18, 2010)

The only thing worse than being under-dressed for an event, is being over dressed.

Being under dressed shames you. Being overdressed shames your hosts if you are dressed more formally than they are, and that is totally disgraceful behavior in a guest.

Contact the hostess and ask her what she and her husband will be wearing.

I strongly suspect that the intent was for ladies to wear cocktail dresses and the men to wear as close to a suit as their wives can convince them to put on, as that is what "Cocktail Dress" means to the rest of America outside this board an a few other enclaves of traditionalism. 

I just asked a co-worker and after admitting he didn't know he said that if he had to guess, "Black turtle-neck, Black slacks, black shoes." 

Depending on the background of the other attendees you will probably see them dressed anywhere from very casual business casual through suits 

In other words since most people outside a few elite do not know or agree on the definition, its meaningless and should be dropped from usage since there is no universal cultural authority that can re-assert and disseminate a meaning. English is a fluid language and past definitions will become archaic and misleading with time.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

"To ascribe to the lowest-common-denominator (mis)understanding of a term is to err on the side of ignorance."

Not really my point. Men in Brioni jackets, or at least their wives, know exactly what they are doing. They are hardly the LCD (reserving judgement on some of the third wives). My point is that the terms are not really descriptive. Up here we have "Golf casual" which means you can come straight from the course and not feel underdressed. And some folks, God bless 'em" use phrases like "Jacket, no tie," "Jacket and tie" and so on. There is a difference in being "ignorant" of a rule and simply ignoring a rule that 95% of men will ignore. I know the speed limit is 55. Sometimes everybody chooses a different speed.

This same topic was going on three years or so ago, when my son was getting married in Bar Harbor and I found myself hosting a rehersal dinner lobster bake for 150 out of town guests. I couldn't resist listing the dress as "Nantucket Casual." Nobody knew exactly what the hell it meant, but a lot of people wore red...


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Will said:


> Wear a blazer. You ought to wear a necktie but you would probably be the only man there doing so if you did.


I'm pretty sure this nails it.

A month ago I attended an event whose invitation specified "cocktail attire"; I was one of two suits in attendance, same for ties. Most guys wore dress shirts and slacks, a couple older gents in their 60s wore sports coats. This was in a Manhattan penthouse. I really was kind of overdressed for the umpteenth time. The hostess said she liked the suit, but added that I didn't need to get "all dressed up", assuming that as a man I really hated to do so.

In CA you can wear anything for "cocktail attire", which means wear what you want if you're comfortable being the only guy in a suit and tie, which you will be.


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

Joe Beamish said:


> A month ago I attended an event whose invitation specified "cocktail attire" ... The hostess said she liked the suit, but added that I didn't need to get "all dressed up", assuming that as a man I really hated to do so.
> 
> In CA you can wear anything for "cocktail attire", which means wear what you want if you're comfortable being the only guy in a suit and tie, which you will be.


In which case the hostess should not ask for "cocktail attire" if she does not want it. It's like ordering a pizza and when the delivery boy arrives saying that fries would have been fine.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

*Evening Casual (?)*

I am invited to an event in Seattle where the attire is specified as "Evening Casual." I haven't the slightest idea what that might mean, but I hope somebody here does. Help? Thanks.


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

godan said:


> I am invited to an event in Seattle where the attire is specified as "Evening Casual." I haven't the slightest idea what that might mean, but I hope somebody here does. Help? Thanks.


No idea on that one. Contact the host.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

godan said:


> I am invited to an event in Seattle where the attire is specified as "Evening Casual." I haven't the slightest idea what that might mean, but I hope somebody here does. Help? Thanks.


Casual means that you do not wear a tie or jacket. Evening means that you should look as if you were going out to a night club. Wear a dress shirt, nice jeans, and probably some nice shoes, but not sneakers. You might leave you shirt untucked.


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## Wildblue (Oct 11, 2009)

Hey, whatever it takes to get girls like that, man. (woof!)


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