# Khaki Recommendations..........



## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

Looking for recommendations for good wearing, nice looking khakis, that do not break the bank. Bill's are certainly nice but more than I like to spend for casual pants. Just bought two pair of Orvis' Ultimate Khakis at their reduced price (2 @ $149) but am disappointed in their construction for pants that cost that much (they look to be made much like some Izod Saltwash khakis that I pick up regularly for around $30 - always on sell somewhere) so I am considering a return of these. 
Any one got suggestions?? I like a fairly substantial fabric, all cotton - no wrinkle free or premanent press, smooth side seams (stitching on inside), and a relaxed fit. I think $60 to $80 is plenty to pay for casual trousers.
Thanks in advance!!


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

Jack Donnelly's in the regular cut seem to fit your bill exactly, 78 bucks shipped with the link in my signature. I'm wearing a pair as I type this, they're certainly above average and very durable.


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## MycroftH (Mar 9, 2012)

leisureclass said:


> Jack Donnelly's in the regular cut seem to fit your bill exactly, 78 bucks shipped with the link in my signature. I'm wearing a pair as I type this, they're certainly above average and very durable.


+1 on the Jack Donnelly's. I bought a pair last year on a recommendation on this forum for the $78 and I've been extremely pleased. Exactly what I was looking for... in fact I am about to order another pair.


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## Plainmike (Aug 8, 2012)

Check out LL bean


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## HerrDavid (Aug 23, 2012)

leisureclass said:


> Jack Donnelly's in the regular cut seem to fit your bill exactly, 78 bucks shipped with the link in my signature. I'm wearing a pair as I type this, they're certainly above average and very durable.


LC, do you wear the regular or slim fit?


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## sjk (Dec 1, 2007)

Is Jack Donnelly still a "going concern?" I have checked in on their website periodically since last year. My size, 38, (which is not exactly an uncommon one) in plain front, standard fit, khakis has been "out of stock" forever. These are not limited editions, but rather would seem to be the most basic, go-to, bread-and-butter model for a brand that I thought was trying to position itself as a very traditional pant maker. Do they ever replenish their stock? Behavior like this makes me question their financial health.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Consider All American Khakis. They can be purchased from www.beautiesltd.com for $70 a pair.

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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Plainmike said:


> Check out LL bean


Check out LL Bean.

($40 a pop, multiple colors & fits, good quality, they're disposable at that price.)


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

HerrDavid said:


> LC, do you wear the regular or slim fit?


I went with the regular because I was leary of the lower rise on the slimmer fit pair. I'm happy with my choice, they're similar to Bill's M2s in terms of fit, maybe just a touch slimmer.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

L-feld said:


> Consider All American Khakis. They can be purchased from www.beautiesltd.com for $70 a pair.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


Is this the same as their Kramer Twill @ 69.50? A little leery of the "bowtie on the back pocket". How does that look?


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## HerrDavid (Aug 23, 2012)

leisureclass said:


> I went with the regular because I was leary of the lower rise on the slimmer fit pair. I'm happy with my choice, they're similar to Bill's M2s in terms of fit, maybe just a touch slimmer.


Thanks, leisureclass, that's very helpful. I found the slim fit a little _too_ slim for my tastes; a slightly slimmer M2 sounds just about perfect.


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## JackFlash (Sep 5, 2013)

leisureclass said:


> Jack Donnelly's in the regular cut seem to fit your bill exactly, 78 bucks shipped with the link in my signature. I'm wearing a pair as I type this, they're certainly above average and very durable.


I have been very pleased with my JD khakis. The regular cut has a high rise and a slight taper to the leg. Exactly what I have been looking for.


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## HerrDavid (Aug 23, 2012)

Pentheos said:


> Check out LL Bean.
> 
> ($40 a pop, multiple colors & fits, good quality, they're disposable at that price.)


I like the cut on Bean's "classic" fit, but I've avoided their recent chino because of the puported wrinkle resistance. (I like my chinos to wrinkle, dammit!) Any thoughts on said resistance? Does it fade over time? Are the pants still relatively soft?


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

Interesting about the pants from beau ties ltd. I was not aware they had started selling pants. Any idea who is the manufacturer? Also, I would love if they could sell them unhemmed, as I'd prefer to have that done myself. I think I will send them an email and see. Thanks for sharing. 
Tom


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

TommyDawg said:


> Interesting about the pants from beau ties ltd. I was not aware they had started selling pants. Any idea who is the manufacturer? Also, I would love if they could sell them unhemmed, as I'd prefer to have that done myself. I think I will send them an email and see. Thanks for sharing.
> Tom


I'm fairly sure they are made by All American Khakis, who also make O'Connell's house brand khakis. They are good quality and sturdy.

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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

DownSouth said:


> Is this the same as their Kramer Twill @ 69.50? A little leery of the "bowtie on the back pocket". How does that look?


The manufacturer is All American Khakis. The kramer twill is their version of cramerton cloth.

The bow tie on the back pocket is inobtrusive. No worse than what 99 percent of other khakis have.

If you want to forgo it, you can pay extra and buy them from O'Connell's or Traditions by Steve.

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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

I would be interested in those khakis from Beau Ties Ltd. but I don't see an option to get them cuffed. I suppose I could get a pair hemmed at 35" and have my tailor cuff them at 30".


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## ridethecliche (Jan 7, 2014)

Keeping an eye on this thread as I'll likely be looking for a pair or so for myself!


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Jack Donnelly khakis aren't true to size, in my experience. I bought a pair and returned them several times trying to find one that fit properly The waist sizes were too small, no matter what the tag said. Some were obviously off by _at least_ 1" in the waist. I tried their slim and relaxed fits (or whatever they call them) and none fit properly. In email exchanges with the owner, he admitted that some of their khakis were mis-tagged. Again, this was just my experience, and I'm glad JD worked out for others, but I won't try buying from them again.

I'd love to try a pair of Bill's, but it seems silly to me to shell out $100+ for a pair. Perhaps they're worth it, because everyone seems to rave about them.

I found the Orvis Ultimate Khaki's rather baggy, but I am happy with one of their "Made in the USA" pairs. I can't seem to find it on their website now.

In any event, I'd suggest that the OP buy a pair or two that he likes, then find more through thrifting (if thrifting is his thing). Khakis are plentiful in thrift stores, and you can experiement with different makes without blowing through a ton of cash. One should be able to build up a strong rotation of about 7-8 pairs through some judicious thrifting.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Khakis may be plentiful, but I've had a real problem finding khakis I'd actually want to wear. Most around here aren't anything notable, and since I spend most of my time in chinos I'd rather pay for a pair I'll love. There's a seller on eBay, like "pantspantspants" or something, that has a ton of NWT Bills listed for 77.77 OBO (so probably $50-60). That might be a good place to check. Do keep in mind, though, that Bills slims run VERY slim. I picked up a pair of slim-fit from the exchange and couldn't wear them until I had my tailor let out the thighs and seat.

As for Jack Donnellys, I've heard great things about them but they're single-button closure. I really try to hold out for a french fly because I've found them much more comfortable and much better looking.


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

I emailed Beau Ties today and got a prompt reply by this afternoon. They said the pants are made by Chardan. Is anyone familiar with that company? She said they will send them unhemmed, at the same price as hemmed. 
Tom


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

Chardan is from Thomson GA.


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## Mike75 (Jul 18, 2013)

eBay is your friend. I've found several pairs of slightly used Bills for less than $50 a pair. It takes some patience though. There are also some eBay sellers that sell Bills factory seconds. These can be a good deal, but be sure to pay attention to the listing to see where the imperfections are and if they are noticeable. 

Donnelly's are great and the price is hard to beat. IMO, they are the same quality as Bills.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

TommyDawg said:


> I emailed Beau Ties today and got a prompt reply by this afternoon. They said the pants are made by Chardan. Is anyone familiar with that company? She said they will send them unhemmed, at the same price as hemmed.
> Tom


Chardan is the same company as All American Khakis. They also make the house brand khakis for O'Connell's. They are good quality.

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## Larry Poppins (Jan 14, 2014)

Those Jack Donnelly khakis look just about perfect to me. I shall have to get my comment count up high enough to qualify for the discount.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Regarding Bills Khakis, which one is a standard slim fit? Relaxed fit pants tend to be too baggy for me. I'm seeking unpleated and no cuffs.


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## JackFlash (Sep 5, 2013)

gamma68 said:


> Regarding Bills Khakis, which one is a standard slim fit? Relaxed fit pants tend to be too baggy for me. I'm seeking unpleated and no cuffs.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Looks like the M2 is the one for me. Thanks.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

gamma68 said:


> Looks like the M2 is the one for me. Thanks.


Depends on your body. The M2 can be real baggy on slender gentlemen. The M3 isn't too slim either, just more so compared to Bill's other models. You can order them hemmed but I'd recommend unhemmed and washing and drying them to set the shrink then tailoring..


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## JackFlash (Sep 5, 2013)

Eric W S said:


> Depends on your body. The M2 can be real baggy on slender gentlemen. The M3 isn't too slim either, just more so compared to Bill's other models. You can order them hemmed but I'd recommend unhemmed and washing and drying them to set the shrink then tailoring..


I still think Bill's is crazy for having a 10 in rise on the M2, which has a 9 in leg opening. This is precisely why I like Jack Donnelly; very comfortable rise with some moderate tapering. The proportions on Bill's is backwards IMHO.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Are you saying the rise should be lower for that leg opening, or the leg opening should be narrower for that rise?


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## HerrDavid (Aug 23, 2012)

Given the preference for so-called "collegiate cut" chinos in these parts (high rise, slim leg), I imagine that JackFlash wishes the roominess of the M2s were in the rise rather than the leg opening (or conversely: that it were the leg opening, rather than rise, that was slimmed down). Please do correct me if I'm wrong JackFlash!

That said, I'm not sure if the rise measurements in the Bill's size guide take the waistband into account. I don't own any M2s myself, but in the pictures I've seen, the rise has never looked low (and 10" to me is rather low).


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## JackFlash (Sep 5, 2013)

Tilton said:


> Are you saying the rise should be lower for that leg opening, or the leg opening should be narrower for that rise?


HerrDavid correctly interprets my post on all counts. To directly answer your question, the leg opening should be narrower for that rise. If you have a low rise, you generally get a slim leg and a narrow leg opening. If you have a high rise, you generally get a fuller leg with a wider leg opening. A "collegiate cut," which I can't find outside JD or heavy tailoring, has a high rise with some taper.

Take the Bills M3, which has a 9.25 in rise and 8.75 in leg opening. A rise around 9 in is _quite_ low, and I would expect the leg opening to be 8 in or less. The fact that it is near 9 in baffles me.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

JackFlash said:


> I still think Bill's is crazy for having a 10 in rise on the M2, which has a 9 in leg opening. This is precisely why I like Jack Donnelly; very comfortable rise with some moderate tapering. The proportions on Bill's is backwards IMHO.


Personal preference. Bill's has much more and nicer fabrics and better construction. The differences are slight with the advantage to Bill's IMO. Either is a quality garment.


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## FalconLorenzo (Aug 14, 2013)

While this is certain to not answer the OP's question, I feel the need to share my revelation. I'm quite a large guy, you see, and finding nice clothes that fit is hard but I have found it less and less hard as the years pass. For some context, I am about 6'3, 19"/36" shirt, 48-50 pant. Khakis have been terrible to find. Don't get me wrong, I can find pleanty of khakis in my size with double pleats, made of horrible poly fibers, equipped with that dreaded waist expander that look awful and fit even worse. Lands End's chino have been incredible in fit, style, and the quality I'm sure could be better but I honestly have no complaints with these chinos and I own three pair - 2 in khaki and 1 in navy. Destination XL, which recently opened a store near me, Carey's bill's khakis up to size 64 I believe (yikes) but sadly it looks like only red khakis are stocked above size 44. I'm planning on going in store to see if they have a wider selection/try them on to see how they actually fit/see if they can order more standard colors. Hope this rank can help out at least one other sartorially minded heavy gent!


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

FalconLorenzo said:


> While this is certain to not answer the OP's question, I feel the need to share my revelation. I'm quite a large guy, you see, and finding nice clothes that fit is hard but I have found it less and less hard as the years pass. For some context, I am about 6'3, 19"/36" shirt, 48-50 pant. Khakis have been terrible to find. Don't get me wrong, I can find pleanty of khakis in my size with double pleats, made of horrible poly fibers, equipped with that dreaded waist expander that look awful and fit even worse. Lands End's chino have been incredible in fit, style, and the quality I'm sure could be better but I honestly have no complaints with these chinos and I own three pair - 2 in khaki and 1 in navy. Destination XL, which recently opened a store near me, Carey's bill's khakis up to size 64 I believe (yikes) but sadly it looks like only red khakis are stocked above size 44. I'm planning on going in store to see if they have a wider selection/try them on to see how they actually fit/see if they can order more standard colors. Hope this rank can help out at least one other sartorially minded heavy gent!


There are a few options, none of which are quick, but should yield good results. You could contact All American Khakis/Chardan directly. My understanding is that they will do single item orders, especially for standard items like khakis. I think they can accommodate larger sizes, although I never got above a 46 waist, so I can't speak to anything beyond that. Those would run you around $100. https://www.allamericankhakis.com/contact/

You can also contact English Sportswear. They will make a pair of pants out of whatever material you like for between $70 and $100 ish, depending on the fabric. https://www.apparelbyssew.com/contact-us.html

Finally, you can have Hardwick make you pants. They should have some khakis cotton twill on hand. It will run you about $120 and it will take 2 months, but they definitely go up to the 50's in their waist sizes.

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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

gamma68 said:


> Jack Donnelly khakis aren't true to size, in my experience. I bought a pair and returned them several times trying to find one that fit properly The waist sizes were too small, no matter what the tag said. Some were obviously off by _at least_ 1" in the waist. I tried their slim and relaxed fits (or whatever they call them) and none fit properly. In email exchanges with the owner, he admitted that some of their khakis were mis-tagged. Again, this was just my experience, and I'm glad JD worked out for others, but I won't try buying from them again.
> 
> I'd love to try a pair of Bill's, but it seems silly to me to shell out $100+ for a pair. Perhaps they're worth it, because everyone seems to rave about them.


JDs are $98 _without_ a discount, plus whatever it costs to have them hemmed ($25 around here for cuffs, $15-20 without) and maybe waist altered ($30). That's hardly less than Bills. Most Bills dealers include alterations, and Bills are still a healthy step up from JDs.

I found JDs an inch _too big_ in the waist, while they fit well everywhere else. This is by actual measurement -- they do measure an inch bigger than nominal size, just like it says on JD's chart. Kudos to JD for putting that out there.

Pants that fit me measure 31". From JD's chart I ordered Slim Fit 30, actually 31". They were perfect in the waist but _tight_ everywhere else. So I exchanged them for 32 (no 31). These are perfect everywhere else, but 2" too big in the waist. and bunching under my belt.

Next time I'll order the regular fit in a 30, and get the 31 waist that I need, and probably slim enough overall fit.

Otherwise, JDs are a nice second to Bills. They actually fit me better, and Bills smaller than 34 can be hard to find.

I confess to wearing BB Advantage a lot. They're not my favorites but they're easy and presentable.


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## jfkemd (Jul 11, 2007)

I've tried a lot. Bills are nice, but the leg opening even in a M2 is usually too wide and would require some altering hence the extra expense. I wouldn't mind buying these used.
LLB Double L chinos are also well made in my opinion. The non iron finish does not seem to be that bad, but I would be wary about purchasing dark colored ones. I am concerned about a crease that will fade while the rest of the pants remain dark. LLBs do not have an option to cuff, but come in varying inseams. The Classic Fit ones have a nice taper.
I currently wear LE original chinos in a Tailored Fit. These satisfy a lot of criteria namely price, varying inseams that come cuffed, a slight taper to the leg and a non iron finish.
The above mentioned Chardan Chinos look very good and I hope to try these in the near future.


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## JackFlash (Sep 5, 2013)

jfkemd said:


> I currently wear LE original chinos in a Tailored Fit. These satisfy a lot of criteria namely price, varying inseams that come cuffed, a slight taper to the leg and a non iron finish.


I've considered these for the reason you cite. If you don't mind me asking, what is the rise measurement for these?


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## HerrDavid (Aug 23, 2012)

Tailored fit has a 10.5 rise in a 30W and it goes up incrementally from there. Traditional fit has a much more generous rise. Here are the exact details:

Tailored fit: https://www.landsend.com/garment_measurements/404915_core_pdp_spec.pdf
Traditional fit: https://www.landsend.com/garment_measurements/404918_core_pdp_spec.pdf

I wonder if these pants are being phased out, however. They had been reduced to 22.99 for some time and now I see they have been reduced even further to 18.99. Also worth noting that the fews pairs I've bought since the summer--taking advantage of those ridiculous prices!--were all noticeably thinner than past purchases. I returned them. I wonder if this has been the case for anyone else.


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## FJW (Jan 25, 2012)

Pentheos said:


> Check out LL Bean.
> 
> ($40 a pop, multiple colors & fits, good quality, they're disposable at that price.)


I'm a fan of Bean's Chinos also for the above reasons. They also have a 37 inch waist.


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## T_Packer (Mar 23, 2012)

Another vote for the LLB Double L in classic fit. They look good, they are cheap, and they come in good colors. I switched over to them gradually over the last year to 18 months, and have not had any issues. As to avoiding the dark colors, my oldest pair is navy and I have not had any fading issues yet (though admittedly I have not put as much wear on them as others may consider normal since I wear suits to work).


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## Semper Jeep (Oct 11, 2011)

gamma68 said:


> Regarding Bills Khakis, which one is a standard slim fit? Relaxed fit pants tend to be too baggy for me. I'm seeking unpleated and no cuffs.


If you haven't tried on any Bill's in the flesh and are near the Birmingham area, you can stop in at the Claymore Shop and they usually have a pretty good selection of M1, M2, and M3 in various sizes and colors. And while the price for Bill's is definitely steep compared to other options, Claymore has them marked down significantly numerous times throughout the year.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Semper Jeep said:


> If you haven't tried on any Bill's in the flesh and are near the Birmingham area, you can stop in at the Claymore Shop and they usually have a pretty good selection of M1, M2, and M3 in various sizes and colors. And while the price for Bill's is definitely steep compared to other options, Claymore has them marked down significantly numerous times throughout the year.


I've seen them in Claymore but have never seen them marked down. I'll have to check from time to time. Frankly, sometimes I think the staff (or one of their staff members) are a bit heavy-handed with regard to selling.


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## JackFlash (Sep 5, 2013)

HerrDavid said:


> Tailored fit: https://www.landsend.com/garment_measurements/404915_core_pdp_spec.pdf
> Traditional fit: https://www.landsend.com/garment_measurements/404918_core_pdp_spec.pdf
> 
> I wonder if these pants are being phased out, however.


Thank you, sir! Never noticed they had measurements online before. Will certainly give them a try at the price. I wouldn't be surprised if they phase them out, everything else being "non-iron."


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## FalconLorenzo (Aug 14, 2013)

L-feld said:


> There are a few options, none of which are quick, but should yield good results. You could contact All American Khakis/Chardan directly. My understanding is that they will do single item orders, especially for standard items like khakis. I think they can accommodate larger sizes, although I never got above a 46 waist, so I can't speak to anything beyond that. Those would run you around $100. https://www.allamericankhakis.com/contact/
> 
> You can also contact English Sportswear. They will make a pair of pants out of whatever material you like for between $70 and $100 ish, depending on the fabric. https://www.apparelbyssew.com/contact-us.html
> 
> ...


This is an outstanding resource that you've put together here! I'll be sure to inquire into All American Khakis and English Sportswear next time I'm in the market! I like my LE Chinos because they were only $60 and have been an incredible value so far!


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

FalconLorenzo said:


> This is an outstanding resource that you've put together here! I'll be sure to inquire into All American Khakis and English Sportswear next time I'm in the market! I like my LE Chinos because they were only $60 and have been an incredible value so far!


My pleasure. BTW, if you find yourself looking for some inexpensive, good quality dress slacks, Hardwick is a great resource. Their RTW dress slacks run about $100 a pair and they will hem them to whatever length you need. They definitely stock your waist size.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

HerrDavid said:


> Given the preference for so-called "collegiate cut" chinos in these parts (high rise, slim leg), I imagine that JackFlash wishes the roominess of the M2s were in the rise rather than the leg opening (or conversely: that it were the leg opening, rather than rise, that was slimmed down). Please do correct me if I'm wrong JackFlash!
> 
> That said, I'm not sure if the rise measurements in the Bill's size guide take the waistband into account. I don't own any M2s myself, but in the pictures I've seen, the rise has never looked low (and 10" to me is rather low).


If higher rise and slimmer leg is what you want, JD Slim Fit is your pant.

Bills M2 on me, in size 32, have about 11" rise. So do the JDs. And LLB Classic Fit.


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## Urbnhautebourg (Oct 5, 2011)

jfkemd said:


> I currently wear LE original chinos in a Tailored Fit. These satisfy a lot of criteria namely price, varying inseams that come cuffed, a slight taper to the leg and a non iron finish.


I am a big fan. I think they are a great value. Also, the Tailored Fit is not at all skinny, so none here should be at all put off. The cut is straight out of the pictures in the Take Ivy book. And the standard cuff is the quite recherché 3/4" .


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## Larry Poppins (Jan 14, 2014)

So now that I have enough posts to qualify for the discount on Jack Donnellys it would seem that I should be trying to find a Bills merchant or Land's End catalog. *sigh


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

*Lands End Flapped Back Pockets??*

That's a big deal breaker for me with the Lands End original chino. Too reminiscent of the old Dockers when they first came out. Make's them very non-traditional to me.


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## Sree (Jan 1, 2012)

Anyone try Luxire? Might be worth it if fitting is a problem or if you want custom features.

They will make khakis to your exact specifications: pleats/no pleats, cuffs/no cuffs, belt loops/side adjusters, lining/ no lining, button/zipper fly, etc. They also have various cloth weights and colors available.

$89.99 with free shipping


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Himself said:


> JDs are $98 _without_ a discount, plus whatever it costs to have them hemmed ($25 around here for cuffs, $15-20 without) and maybe waist altered ($30). That's hardly less than Bills. Most Bills dealers include alterations, and Bills are still a healthy step up from JDs.
> 
> I found JDs an inch _too big_ in the waist, while they fit well everywhere else. This is by actual measurement -- they do measure an inch bigger than nominal size, just like it says on JD's chart. Kudos to JD for putting that out there.
> 
> ...


For those who don't mind the extra cost of alterations, Jack Donnelly khakis--all of them--come with a split-back, alterable waistband. You would not want to let out the waist on a pair of cotton trousers because you would end up with seam lines on the seat; however, taking in a waist that's slightly too large should not be a problem. (If the extra hassle is worth it to you.) I point this out for those who are interested in the overall fit of JD khakis but who find themselves between waist sizes.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

^ I had success washing on hot and drying on hot, after my initial try on was a little bit loose. Now the fit is pretty great on the pair I have.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

L-feld said:


> Consider All American Khakis. They can be purchased from www.beautiesltd.com for $70 a pair.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


Have gotten a pair of the All American Khakis (made by CharDan Ltd in Georgia) from Beau Ties Ltd and they are excellent. Compared to an old pair of Bills I have, you cannot tell a difference in construction. Just ordered another pair today. The price point, even with shipping (and hemmed free) is very attractive compared to Bills. BTW, I think Bill got a little "too big for his britches" with the success of his khakis. Used to be around $95 (too high 4-5 yrs ago) at my local clothier; now $145 (way overpriced today). I don't see it.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

DownSouth said:


> Have gotten a pair of the All American Khakis (made by CharDan Ltd in Georgia) from Beau Ties Ltd and they are excellent. Compared to an old pair of Bills I have, you cannot tell a difference in construction. Just ordered another pair today. The price point, even with shipping (and hemmed free) is very attractive compared to Bills. BTW, I think Bill got a little "too big for his britches" with the success of his khakis. Used to be around $95 (too high 4-5 yrs ago) at my local clothier; now $145 (way overpriced today). I don't see it.


agreed absolutely.

FWIW I posted some pics of comparisons between AAK, Bills and JD over here: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?169034-New-Fit-from-Jack-Donnelly/page2


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

DownSouth said:


> Have gotten a pair of the All American Khakis (made by CharDan Ltd in Georgia) from Beau Ties Ltd and they are excellent. Compared to an old pair of Bills I have, you cannot tell a difference in construction. Just ordered another pair today. The price point, even with shipping (and hemmed free) is very attractive compared to Bills. BTW, I think Bill got a little "too big for his britches" with the success of his khakis. Used to be around $95 (too high 4-5 yrs ago) at my local clothier; now $145 (way overpriced today). I don't see it.


Why would you pay retail? I've gotten all of mine for under 50 shipped. A bit of work in the interwebs and you can get Bills for any number of price points below retail. I am happy Bill expanded for one. Cav Twills, wools, flannels, sweaters, all USA made and for good quality...


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## Larry Poppins (Jan 14, 2014)

I ordered my first pair of JD and should get them back from the tailor this afternoon. Even after a wash and dry they needed to be taken in a bit at the waist. The leg openings were ideal and only needed to be cuffed. At the same time I took in a pair of Bills that I bought several years ago but do not wear because of the wide leg opening. It seems there is no pair that is perfect until tailored. JD has me on price, but Bills has a better waistband construction IMO. The real test will come when I've been waring both for a couple of years and I can see how the fabric wears and the seams hold up.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

Eric W S said:


> Why would you pay retail? I've gotten all of mine for under 50 shipped. A bit of work in the interwebs and you can get Bills for any number of price points below retail. I am happy Bill expanded for one. Cav Twills, wools, flannels, sweaters, all USA made and for good quality...


At Bills prices I DON'T pay retail. I've looked around on line, Sierra Trading Post never has my size, not fond of or trust EBay, and I do not thrift shop (don't wear "used" clothing, yet). Not faulting Bills' expanding, just think he could have kept his prices a little more realistic. But most Made in USA stuff is way over priced in my opinio, although I love the idea and support it when I can. Just keep it so regular Americans can afford it.
BTW, I received a Bills sportshirt for a gift about a year ago. I'm sure it was expensive, yet the quality, construction, and fabic was no better than most of my JAB or Daniel Cremieux stuff that's all imported.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

DownSouth said:


> At Bills prices I DON'T pay retail. I've looked around on line, Sierra Trading Post never has my size, not fond of or trust EBay, and I do not thrift shop (don't wear "used" clothing, yet). Not faulting Bills' expanding, just think he could have kept his prices a little more realistic. But most Made in USA stuff is way over priced in my opinio, although I love the idea and support it when I can. Just keep it so regular Americans can afford it.
> BTW, I received a Bills sportshirt for a gift about a year ago. I'm sure it was expensive, yet the quality, construction, and fabic was no better than most of my JAB or Daniel Cremieux stuff that's all imported.


They aren't terrible. Andover, Press, BB ... They all seem to be at that price point. Bill's shirts are nothing to write home about.

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## ArtVandalay (Apr 29, 2010)

Looks like Lands' End is phasing out the Original Chinos in favor of these new "Lighthouse Chinos." Has anyone tried a pair yet?


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## JackFlash (Sep 5, 2013)

ArtVandalay said:


> Looks like Lands' End is phasing out the Original Chinos in favor of these new "Lighthouse Chinos." Has anyone tried a pair yet?


Great question. From the description they seem to feature a broken in weekend type of fabric.

I was able to confirm with customer service yesterday that Lands End is indeed phasing out the non-non-iron original chinos.


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## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

JackFlash said:


> Great question. From the description they seem to feature a broken in weekend type of fabric.
> 
> I was able to confirm with customer service yesterday that Lands End is indeed phasing out the non-non-iron original chinos.


The last of the Original Chinos are on sale at $19 ... but the only color I see is 'stone.'


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## JackFlash (Sep 5, 2013)

Do any of the online retailers offering All American Khakis provide detailed measurements?


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

JackFlash said:


> Do any of the online retailers offering All American Khakis provide detailed measurements?


Check with Steve Calvert:

https://www.traditionsbystevecalvert.com/


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## mjpwooo (Dec 27, 2013)

Is there a simple place where I (or anyone) can see the details of the differing types of pants Bills has? They have 7-10 types of twill, and 4-5 other styles, not to mention the 3-5 differing sizing options.

I'm lazy (there, I said it), and I just want a simple, easy place to read the comparisons so I can make a decision. Bills site isn't great to get that data, IMO.

Thanks.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

leisureclass said:


> ^ I had success washing on hot and drying on hot, after my initial try on was a little bit loose. Now the fit is pretty great on the pair I have.


I tried that! No appreciable shrinkage with the JDs, which come soft, as if washed and pre-shrunk to the max. And in my experience, Bills snug up a bit everywhere _but_ the waist.

Anyway, glad you got a great fit w/o too much work. I really like the JDs. They are soft, and comfortably stretchy. My BB Advantage are like cardboard, w/ no give at all.


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## bruc (Aug 1, 2012)

Do the All American Khakis have the same true to size problem as the JD's?
I emailed All American and they said Our regular model runs about an inch bigger
than true size. We also offer a slimmer model that is more true to size.
Any one confirm?
Does Beau ties carry the regular model?


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

bruc said:


> Do the All American Khakis have the same true to size problem as the JD's?
> I emailed All American and they said Our regular model runs about an inch bigger
> than true size. We also offer a slimmer model that is more true to size.
> Any one confirm?
> Does Beau ties carry the regular model?


Beau ties offers the regular model so far as I can tell. They are similar in the waist to the pair of JD's I have in the same size.

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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I've been wearing khakis for nigh on 60 years, and I've never found anything that comes close to Bill's, costly though they may be.

I have a pair of the Beau Ties khakis. They're okay, but I still much prefer the Bill's offerings, especially since the Beau Ties' khakis are now $89.50.

I got a pair of the L.L. Bean "Lakewashed chinos" early this year. These made in India pants seemed like very good values at $50, but I don't see them on Bean's website currently.


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## WillBarrett (Feb 18, 2012)

My two pair of Bill's are fantastic, and my PRL Prospect Chinos have held up well. I'm sort of reluctant to spend more than $10 on anything else.


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