# Cordovan Shoes in the Rain



## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Do you advise against? I know that the leather is extremely durable, and easily maintainable, but how would wearing a pair on a rainy day work?


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

You should be Ok in a light rain but I wouldn't make a habit of it. I would wipe them dry as soon as you get indoor.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Always a debate on this topic.

I'd love to hear Nick Horween's take on this subject. I'll keep my mouth shut until the man speaks.


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

I've worn my alden cordovans in the rain many times without a problem. Remember, horses are out in the rain all the time.


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## ChiliPalmer (Nov 18, 2008)

Buffalo said:


> I've worn my alden cordovans in the rain many times without a problem. Remember, horses are out in the rain all the time.


So are cows, but rain isn't good for calfskin.


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

I'm attaching the following thread which may help.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=66496


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## gopunk (Sep 30, 2006)

I've worn my Alden cordovan shoes in the rain on many an occasion to no ill effect - just wipe them off when you get a chance. You might have to polish it a little before wearing the next time (after they've dried out, of course) but that's about it.


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## DR1V3N (Mar 8, 2009)

Very true, I have never had a problem with cordovan and the rain.



Buffalo said:


> I've worn my alden cordovans in the rain many times without a problem. Remember, horses are out in the rain all the time.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

It's a strange thing about shell cordovan and rain. Some pairs just shrug it off and dry naturally as though the rain never happened. Other pairs develop spots from walking in damp grass and the spots never disappear. Hello Mr. Horween, indeed. I'd be happy to know why.

P.S. By 'spots' I don't mean raised bumps. I mean discoloration.


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## rider (Jan 8, 2004)

Tom is being very PC  .

I have never understood where this idea came from.....I suppose it's due to the fact that most that participate in a forum like this are concerned about APPEARANCE, and I can understand that, but - SHELL CORDOVAN IS MEANT TO BE WORN IN BAD WEATHER!!!!

Think about it....the popularity of the material is concentrated/originated in urban, outdoor, wet environments (the NorthEast USA, Chicago, SF-Seattle, Japan, Northern Europe)....areas with a large workforce that can be exposed, unexpectedly, to bad weather - and concrete/stone - at any time. I mean, the biggest advantage of the material is NOT that it looks good, that it takes a deep shine or that is smooth, etc....the advantage of Shell Cordovan is that it is virtually fiberless and therefore virtually waterproof and undestructable. Water will have absolutely no ill effect on Shell Cordovan. You also get the added benefit that concrete curbs won't tear up the material like they can calfskins, but water resistance is the key feature of SC. Concider this - when the Japanese tannery of shell sent me samples to use on our range, how did I test it? I took a Horween shell and one of their shells, cupped them and placed in a large box....filled each 'cup' with water and waited to see the results. The Horween shell NEVER leaked (3 days later) and the Japanese shell started to seap thru after 1.5 days. To me, this was a deciding factor to only use Horween's material in our line.....water resistance is #1 priority.

Now, will it show the effects of getting wet? Of course...how could it not? BUT, nothing Mother Nature can throw at it will destroy it - period. Not snow, not rain, not the salt that the Northern cities throw....it's impervious to a degree that no other upper (besides alligator - but that's another story) material is. When they get wet, and show some pimples...clean them! A little wipe of Renoveteur (or Alden's SC cream...A/E's....whatever you like), 2 minutes and a horsehair brush brings shell back to new. I think there are some examples from guys here that have had some permanent spotting problems with a random pair or two....I think that Alden finishes the #8 they get from Horween much darker when they get it (but I have no first hand knowledge of this...just an idea) and I imagine that too much left on the shell can cause some excessive spotting, but this is not typical - it just can sometimes happen with a natural material like leather (no matter which type) that it won't always be consistent when it arrives on a finished pair of shoes. The first work we did with shell in the factory had a result like this....we used more or less our calfskin finishing techniques and the workers had to learn that shell does not absorb like calf so the wax just sat 'on top' of the upper and moisture would get under the finish and bubble up....like a water ring on furniture, I suppose. Fortunately, these were just my personal fit trials and the first boots I did which went to friends to test the line, but I am sure this can happen again on random pairs coming out of any of the factories that make some SC shoes. Doesn't change a thing.....SHELL IS MEANT FOR BAD WEATHER.

So, IMO - wear 'em in any weather....they will take it.

Ron


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Shell cordovan is the most fickle "durable" material. I have a pair of AE shell cordovan longwings that were exposed to a very lite mist the first time I wore them -- it was foggy that morning. They developed raised welts which, six months later, are still there. I'm never buying shell cordovan again.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Over the years, my shell cords have been wet down on numerous occasions and through various means and while spots and welts have occured on a surprisingly inconsistent basis, as a result of those wettings, allowing the shoes to dry naturally, using shoe trees and applying cordovan care cream (generally AE's product) after the shoes are completely dry has kept all of my pairs of shell cord shoe looking pretty good..I think ))! Shoes are meant to be worn. If they are not, regardless of what you paid, you would have paid too much for them!


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Thanks Ron.

Many people think it rains a lot more than it actually does in Portland. But for about four months out of the year it *looks* like it's going to rain most of the time.

I try not to wear shells in the rain only because from experience I end up with what I'll call water spots on them. I'll admit I haven't tried the treatment you've outlined to remove the spots but in the future I will.

You've really gone out of your way for me in sending several pairs of your shoes to see to it I found a good fitting and I appreciated it.

Thank you again for the advice.

Best wishes,


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## AAF-8AF (Feb 24, 2009)

Great thread! Since it's a miserable wet week here in the DC area it's quite apropos. Today is supposed to be a bit less wet than yesterday or tomorrow so I'm thinking my couple of trips outdoors will be okay with the shells I've got on. Just in case, though, I still pack my LL Bean rain shoes to work on rainy days. 

And thanks also to Ron for the enthusiastic pep talk :icon_smile_big:
.
.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Thanks Ron!


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

I like to protect my shells with rubber overshoes. Leather soles on ice or wet marble floors could be hazardous


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

ChiliPalmer said:


> So are cows, but rain isn't good for calfskin.


:aportnoy:

On a serious note, I *only *wear my shells in the rain.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks for all the responses folks...I wore em today, and the rain held up...lol.


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## cumberlandpeal (May 12, 2006)

I bought a pair of Barrie Last Bluchers from the Alden store on Madison about ten years ago and wore them out of the store. About half way to CPS it began to drizzle and then to pour. I dried the shoes off when I got to my destination but too late...rain spots. Ten years and many wearings and polishings later I can still see the spots. You couldn't, but I can and do as I am looking at them this very second deciding whether to be reconciled to them or annoyed....


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

rider said:


> Tom is being very PC  .
> 
> I have never understood where this idea came from.....I suppose it's due to the fact that most that participate in a forum like this are concerned about APPEARANCE, and I can understand that, but - SHELL CORDOVAN IS MEANT TO BE WORN IN BAD WEATHER!!!!
> 
> ...


I've known that rain wouldn't destroy shell cordovan or any leather.
Like others experience, all of my shell shoes don't react the same way when they get wet no matter which company made the shoes. Some get welts some don't.
On a couple pairs the water welts are barely noticeable and on others they're completely gone.

I went a step furthur than Ron soaking shell. 
I completely submerged a pair of shell cordovan shoes in water and scrubbed them inside and out with a soft brush and a very mild soap. 
They were soaked. I bought those shoes slightly used and I wanted them cleaned.
That was years ago and I would never do anything so extreme again. 
But from that experience I learned that shell cordovan and quality calfskin can withstand alot more abuse than what most people think.

It's good to see so many respond who actually do own shell and work with it.

What I disagree with is Ron's statement that shell cordovan can withstand the salt we use here in Minnesota.
In Minnesota we use ALOT of salt and chemicals on our roads and sidewalks.
I'm not talking about a sprinkling here and there of table salt.
The Minnesota DOT uses thousands of tons of salt every winter.
And many times mixed with that salt are chemicals to help speed up the melting when it's too cold for salt to be effective.
If salt will destroy steel when it's not washed off I believe it will destroy shell cordovan.

Parking garages and ramps and parking lots can have really strong concentrations of salt and chemicals mixed in with the snowy slush that dropped from cars.
You have to walk through it to get where you're going. And most times you bring that salt into your vehicle
Several months ago I dropped something in the slush and after picking it up it felt like fire or acid was poured on the tip of my finger.
I didn't notice I had a small cut on my finger until that salt and chemical concentration got on it.

A shoe repair guy told me you have 30-45 minutes to rinse off salt before risking permanent damage to leather shoes. 
He suggested using diluted white vinegar to neutralize the salt.
Salt ruined some of my leather shoes many years ago before I knew how to properly take care of them and before I invested in quality shoes.

Like others, I wouldn't be concerned if water gets on my shell cordovan.
But I would never walk intentionally through the salty slush we have here believing the salt wouldn't harm them.
If salt did get on my shell just like any other shoes I'd get it off as soon as possible.

If someone has real experience with using their shell cordovan shoes in salty Minnesota snow I'd like to hear about the condition of the shell.

Your shell cordovan shoes may be fine after walking through the snow but I think you're taking a huge risk if that snow is on a salty Minnesota sidewalk.


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## rbstc123 (Jun 13, 2007)

I have spots on all my shell's as well. At first it bothered me but they aren't that noticeable. Oh well....nature of the beast. No pun intended.:icon_smile_wink:


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## nhorween (Jun 20, 2008)

LeatherSOUL said:


> Always a debate on this topic.
> 
> I'd love to hear Nick Horween's take on this subject. I'll keep my mouth shut until the man speaks.


What a great thread...

I agree with everything, yes.

Above all else we do have to remember that shell, and all leather, is just skin. Resilient without a doubt, but not invincible. Every piece of leather is different from the next piece, which is the only explanation I can offer about some of you getting spots and not others... Shoes are meant to be worn, and cordovan is an amazingly durable material hands down. If people are having specific and hard to treat shell problems (or problems on any of our products), please, PLEASE, send me a message and I'll do my best to help!

Give me a few days to come up with a treatment for, and the prevention of, water spots and I'll have ideas for a fix (hopefully!)

Thanks for the nod, Tom!


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

nhorween said:


> What a great thread...
> 
> I agree with everything, yes.
> 
> ...


Would you be able to confirm if it is or isn't safe for shell cordovan to be exposed to salt for extended periods of time without damage?
Thanks


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

In my personal experience, a lot has to do with the actual shell. I have some that are still pristine after a drizzle and I have a few that have horrible water spots. Not sure if I'm correct or not, but I think if you can build up a "nice" not necessarily thick layer of wax polish over the shell you will be good to go in everyday wet situations.

Minnesota salt on the other hand, cannot be good for shell, let alone any leather.


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## rider (Jan 8, 2004)

Hmmmm.....good points - I did not consider a state's chemical mix, honestly. My direct experience in Baltimore-Washington DC (Maryland DOT), and with clients in NYC, is that the salt residue brushes right off if attended to in good time.....never lived in Minn., so I will defer on that one!

However....and this is a big caveat.....you have to also consider my point about what finishing a particular factory uses during the manufacturing process. Please remember that I am in the factory often - not as a visitor but working - and have tested various finishes and their effect on shell when it arrives on the market in boot/shoe form. I can assure you that, concerning the water effect on shell, the problems stated are a result of FINISHING more so than the material itself. Maybe a picture show will help to explain this important point.

You have to keep in mind that the material as it is delivered is rarely suitable for finished boot/shoes....it needs to be 'finished' [edit - maybe this point needs to be made as a reference....finishing is the MOST expensive component in a shoe factory; and with new technology the easiest to eliminate. An 'old' factory like ours will use the traditional hand finishing of all shoes before they get into boxes. We wax, brush, add/fix color, heat, iron, brush again.....very time consuming and risky. Not only is this labor intensive, it is risky....damages can occur as much in the finishing room as they do in the next riskiest area of a factory, the bottoming section. Just about any 'updated' factory (the last 10 years, I suppose) have turned to spray finishing as a way to do this work. Think about it...if you were to buy a shoe factory, and you look at the math and see that 30% of the cost of your production is in finishing room, and that this is where most of your delivery delays occur, and damages/claims due to random mistakes...and you know that an investment in simple machinery will eliminate the human error component and cut your costs and speed your delivery....and your not really a shoe person so you don't see the tiny advantage in the end result for your shoes....you are going to get rid of the people and go to this method also, more than likely. This idea, when applied well, is not bad in and of itself - little detail finishing with a small nozeled compression sprayer to hit an upper with aniline, for example - but overall finishing start to finish including the final clear finish...that's a different story, IMO. These finishes have a tendency to shrink, crack, etc...and let moisture in between the top finish and the upper material. I have NO idea how Alden finishes their shoes, but just about everyone else I have seen has used this method, to my eyes. We are still doing it the old way....] and this is where I think the problems can occur.

Here are some recent deliveries of sc to us:

My color #6....very clean:









Dark Cognac....pretty much ready to use:









Forest Green Scotch...only a little fixing needed:









Natural...hmmm....alot of fixing needed:









Whiskey....needs to be 'helped':









another batch of Natural....still needs to be evened out some:









Un-glazed Natural...very nice, but still some finishing to do:









Originally, when we were finishing the shells much the same way we finish calfskins, we put MUCH too much wax/pigment/top dressing to 'finish' the boots. Look at the first test that was for me, obviously, as a test:









This is during a trip to the factory, rained constantly, and I was not concerned with polishing my boots....you can see how the water got under the finish and completely spotted the boots. This was clearly not going to work......so we spent the rest of the week testing other methods of work. We tried using wax, using cream, using Crema Nubiana, no irons, more ironing....no flame, more flame....finishing before cutting, finishing after cutting....all kinds of ways. In the end, we discovered the best way to ensure the best possible finish was to use no color at all, a system of very light hand waxing with a neutral, oily cream applied with natural sponges (cloth ended up leaving the imprint of the weave), very light brushing and a little heat.



















Note the lack of color on the sponge:



















I don't have a close-up handy, but here is a recent pic of the second whiskey shell cord chukka finished the way we do now for production....hard to tell, but after more than a year are very clean - and I wear in every weather, as I feel that shoes/boots are meant to be worn, not protected.










Now, do they need care? Of course.....a tiny, tiny bit of Renoveteur wiped on and a quick brushing and we are as good as new. Also, in one year, I have NEVER added color to any of my boots....only the Renoveteur. Do they look worn? Yes. Are they as clean as when new? No.....I don't want them to be - I want them to be worn boots, and look worn. Today as well as 5 years from now.

So, to finalize, my experience tells me that the water-spot issue that comes up often in regard to Shell Cordovan has more to do with how a factory finishes the material than the material itself. And, I maintain that there is no other material that is as durable, for as long a period, as Horween's Shell Cordovan - and with a minimum of routine care, will look far better years later than a same shoe in calfskin. And I will continue to advise my clients to wear Shell Cordovan in all sorts of weather conditions, and if you buy something from me and want them cleaned up....send them to me and I will handle with my own hands.

Ron


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

Ron,
Thank you for your well done presentation


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

Ron,

Thanks for the detailed report. I may be able to second your theory about finishing versus the material itself. My oldest shells are free from spots and they dry without consequence, even after heavy water exposure. My one pair most affected are recent Alden/Brooks. Generally, the older the shell, the less susceptible to water spotting. Bravo for your observation. 

Now... do you have a way to eliminate the dark spots?


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## nhorween (Jun 20, 2008)

Ron, thanks for the detailed post and positive press!

I was thinking on this and some of the spotting issues or darkening issues might be due to what's on the shoes, as Ron said. I've seen plenty of pairs of shoes that accumulate a lot of wax, polish, etc. due to too much attention... For some of you with the spots, I'd take a look at how much product is on your shoe. If you can take the back of a knife and scrape off more than the tiniest bit of residue, you might have too much sitting up. This may be trapping water under the surface of the residue and causing uneven drying. Really just a theory without having seen the spots in question.

If this isn't the case, you can try to re-dampen the entire shoe to see if it will even out. Just facilitate even and slow drying.

As far as polishing, my father was telling me that my great grandfather used to put a very light coat of product on his shell shoes right when he took them off at night (provided they were clean), about every third wearing. He'd let them sit overnight and then buff them in the morning. Perhaps this just supports the evidence even more that there are many ways to care for shoes, and it's usually a result of a combination of personal preference and practicality as much as it is desired appearance.

As long as this thread is rolling, here's a recent video that was shot by German network. Very cool, I think:


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

This is an amazing thread.

Thanks to Rider and Nick for sharing information.


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## ds23pallas (Aug 22, 2006)

*Well-Worn Shell Cordovan*

Here is my old and battered pair of Alden LHS that started out as # 8 but have faded greatly with use and time. I live in Canada and the shoes have been exposed to many years of sockless summer wear, as well as snow and salt during the winter. I never polish them, just wipe off dirt and occassionally buff them.

I have experienced minor spotting from rain that took a long time to fade away. The spots were mostly on the toe of the left-foot shoe, which is now almost a whiskey shade. They are soooooo comfortable now - probably my favourite pair of shoes.


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

Ron 
That was fantastic. 
I'm a picture guy. I'm of the opinion a picture is worth a thousand words.

I'm glad you clarified that the salt was removed from the shell in good time. 
It may even be possible that shell is a little more resilient to salt than calfskin. 
But I won't test it for myself.

Once when sitting at Starbucks I looked out the window and saw a Cadillac Escalade sitting at a stoplight in the snow. 
When looking at the SUV I had to blink twice. The body started to disintegrate before my eyes.
Before the light turned green all that was left 
was the driver sitting on the seat, a chassis and engine. The body was gone.

I concluded then that Minnesota used way too much salt on the roads. 
And if I didn't want to walk around in a HAZMAT suit during the winter the least I could do is wear rubber overshoes when it gets ugly outside.

It's interesting the shell you purchase unfinished and how you use very little to finish it. 
I bought a pair of Allen Edmonds burgundy shell cordovan plain toe bluchers on ebay that had an untreated finish. 
Apparently someone got ahold of a pair of Allen Edmonds shoes that were manufactured and shipped out without ever having a finish applied.

The surface was matte almost dry. Any product that touched the surface immediatly soaked in. I used several types of waxes, polishes and conditioners trying to get a uniform finish that shined. 
What I noticed is that waxes did not really stick well. 
The shoes looked good once the wax was applied.
But after I wore the shoes and flexed them the wax 'lifted' on the creases. 
So I made the mistake of adding more wax hoping it would make it stick better. 
Just more wax lifted when they flexed.
Applying wax to shell that hasn't been treated is quite different than applying wax to calfskin or shell that was treated.

The best thing I could have done is to use a colorless cream and let the natural color from Horween shine through. 
Most people will never have to deal with shell cordovan that doesn't have a finish. 
But, I'm convinced the best thing to do is to use a cream/oil based product and not apply anymore off the shelf colored waxes.

These are the *Allen Edmonds Leeds* that were brand new without a finish. Lots of experimenting went on these shoes. Waxes, polishes, creams, colorless wax balms ect.








Many know that one of the characteristics of shell cordovan shoes is that they become lighter in the flexed areas. 
It's alot more obvious on these shoes than my other burgundy shell.









*Florsheim shell long wings*
These are the shoes I literally submerged in water and used a mild soap and brush to clean inside and out.
I won't do that again. That approach was like shooting a rabbit with a cannon.
After letting dry for a week I added 7 herbs and spices to get the finish looking nice. 
It just shows that shell and many leathers can take a fair amount of abuse.

I differ from many in that I want my shell shoes to look nice with a clean finish. Not necessarily new looking. 
I don't want museum pieces but I don't want the well worn look of shoes that have had very little brushing or polish.


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## Texan (Dec 31, 2008)

you guys are the biggest vaginas known to man. Seriously, shoes are functional items. Take care of them...yes. Afraid to wear in a little rain??? Take off your skirt.


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

I wonder if it's possible to make shell cordovan shoes for something that small.
Poor fella looks hungry and needs attention. I won't feed it.









Alden long wings 
mahogany shell cordovan


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## rider (Jan 8, 2004)

well-kept said:


> Ron,
> 
> Thanks for the detailed report. I may be able to second your theory about finishing versus the material itself. My oldest shells are free from spots and they dry without consequence, even after heavy water exposure. My one pair most affected are recent Alden/Brooks. Generally, the older the shell, the less susceptible to water spotting. Bravo for your observation.
> 
> Now... do you have a way to eliminate the dark spots?


Sure......hmmmm - dark spots? I always see whitish spotting. Anyway, use turpentine then follow with a little cream.


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## rider (Jan 8, 2004)

Hi Crownship -

For the matte Leeds, you can use Renoveteur and/or Crema Nubiana and build a nice finish, if you like.




























For all the finishing we do in Italy, I still have to go over again every pair when they arrive here. Usually I do it as they sell, but sometimes go into the boxes and do them from stock if it is slow in the shop. Once you get a handle on using these conditioners, you can get a nice sheen on shell.


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## Hoof (Feb 14, 2007)

As long as this thread is rolling, here's a recent video that was shot by German network. Very cool, I think: 



[/quote]

This video is great. I love to see how things are made, and this video gives you insight to the great efforts that Horween and Allen Edmonds go to for superb products.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

I enjoyed the video too. Worth noting is the basic color of shells which I believe end up designated as #8. The transparent red-brown, almost mahogany, is the color of older #8s from Alden, as well as Florsheim, AE, Nettleton, etc. The #8 Alden offers now is definitely over-dyed by them in a very dark, purple-black. It's not a color from the tannery.

Mr. Horween, please correct me if I'm mistaken.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

I own on a pair of boots with Shell#8 cordovan (the top burgundy ankle wing tipped boots are mine) 
I have yet to clean or shine them since I received them from Rider Boot a few months ago

Should I just take them to a shoe shiner....or do something else?

Is there a youtube tutorial which Nick or Ron could post so that the faithful can see examples of how to properly care for and shine our cordovan leather shoes?

What are the recommended products to take care of cordovan leather...shoe cream, etc.?


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

Ay329 said:


> I own on a pair of boots with Shell#8 cordovan (the top burgundy ankle wing tipped boots are mine)
> I have yet to clean or shine them since I received them from Rider Boot a few months ago
> Should I just take them to a shoe shiner....or do something else?
> Is there a youtube tutorial which Nick or Ron could post so that the faithful can see examples of how to properly care for and shine our cordovan leather shoes?
> What are the recommended products to take care of cordovan leather...shoe cream, etc.?


Damp cloth to wipe off any dirt and then brush the heck out of them.
You were sold a finished product that has been treated already.
There isn't much you need to do accept wipe them clean and brush.

There have been many suggestions and techniques shared on this forum about what products to use when caring for shell cordovan.
*But the one theme most of us agree on, 
regardless of the products used to shine shell cordovan, 
don't use alot of it and use it infrequently*


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Mr. Rider,
It's a nice public service for you to post pictures of the Shell treatment you give your shoes.

It's like you're giving us a "Free sample" just to get us hooked. Next thing we know we'll have a Shell Cordovan "Monkey on our backs" and we'll be trying to score just one more pair of shells from you,...:icon_smile_big:

Very nice looking shoes Ron.


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## nhorween (Jun 20, 2008)

well-kept said:


> I enjoyed the video too. Worth noting is the basic color of shells which I believe end up designated as #8. The transparent red-brown, almost mahogany, is the color of older #8s from Alden, as well as Florsheim, AE, Nettleton, etc. The #8 Alden offers now is definitely over-dyed by them in a very dark, purple-black. It's not a color from the tannery.
> 
> Mr. Horween, please correct me if I'm mistaken.


Anything we finish as color #8 leaves us looking generally the same, regardless of who it's shipped to. If you want to see the difference between finishing techniques it would be interesting to see brand new #8 shoes from various makers side-by-side.

Maybe Tom at LeatherSoul can help us with a photo?

I would say that the "over-dying" statement is a matter of preference, and shells, especially those that are well worn and cared for properly, should always develop that patina, and definitely lighten and turn more of warm brown as they're exposed to sunlight.


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

nhorween said:


> I would say that the "over-dying" statement is a matter of preference, and shells, especially those that are well worn and cared for properly, should always develop that patina, and definitely lighten and turn more of warm brown as they're exposed to sunlight.


All of mine have done this - an effect I love.


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## The Saint (Apr 28, 2007)

Given the time of year I thought it might be a good idea to revive this thread. The only time I have ever had my SCs spot was when I wore a new pair in the rain. I noticed in the thread that several other posters had the same experience and was wondering if SC shoes that had been worn for awhile before they were exposed to water might not spot due to the leather being stretched a bit? I'd be curious to hear what our resident SC experts think. On the boots that developed pimples, I used a bit of Renovatuer as suggested by Ron and brushed the boots. While you can discern the pimples if you look at the boots really closely, I doubt anyone besides me will ever notice them.


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## archduke (Nov 21, 2003)

Rider,

I am very interested about what you said about crocodile. I always thought that it gets destroyed in the rain because I was told so. It did occur to me that an animal which has been successful in water for 200 million years should have skin that does better.

So what is the truth? Can one wear croc or aligator in the rain?


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## upnorth (Jun 18, 2007)

ds23pallas said:


> Here is my old and battered pair of Alden LHS that started out as # 8 but have faded greatly with use and time. I live in Canada and the shoes have been exposed to many years of sockless summer wear, as well as snow and salt during the winter. I never polish them, just wipe off dirt and occassionally buff them.
> 
> I have experienced minor spotting from rain that took a long time to fade away. The spots were mostly on the toe of the left-foot shoe, which is now almost a whiskey shade. They are soooooo comfortable now - probably my favourite pair of shoes.


ds23pallas or anyone who has had their cordovan shoes for a long time, did you go true to size on your shoes when you first purchased them or did you size down hoping they will stretch to fit?

I got mine true to size but am a little afraid that they might loosen too much with time.


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## emptym (Feb 22, 2008)

Neat thread. Glad it was bumped. Missed it the first time.


rider said:


> ...So, IMO - wear 'em in any weather....they will take it.


I've worn your shell chukkas walking in the rain for hours. Great boots. Thanks Ron! _Edit: And Nick!_
Wonderful shoes. Are they lined or unlined?


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## pdstahl (Aug 18, 2008)

you mentioned a ton of brushing is all the necessary care you need for shell cordovan. Can you detail out the proper care for shell cordovan including frequency. I give mine a light brushing before and after every wear, and polish maybee every 3 months. Is that too much?


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## ds23pallas (Aug 22, 2006)

upnorth said:


> ds23pallas or anyone who has had their cordovan shoes for a long time, did you go true to size on your shoes when you first purchased them or did you size down hoping they will stretch to fit?
> 
> I got mine true to size but am a little afraid that they might loosen too much with time.


I went with my "true" size which on the LHS is a half size smaller than my "normal" size. They have not stretched significantly, but rather moulded themselves to my feet. I would guess they have between 1,000 and 2,000 kilometres on them, given their age, the frequency of wear, and the fact that I walk practically everywhere.



emptym said:


> Wonderful shoes. Are they lined or unlined?


Thank you. They are the lined version. In fact I am wearing them today, and got caught in a heavy mist. Recently, and for about the second time in many years, I polished them with wax paste. They look absolutely wonderful. Came out a shade darker after applying the #8 polish.


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## emptym (Feb 22, 2008)

ds23pallas said:


> ...Thank you. They are the lined version. In fact I am wearing them today, and got caught in a heavy mist. Recently, and for about the second time in many years, I polished them with wax paste. They look absolutely wonderful. Came out a shade darker after applying the #8 polish.


Thanks for the information. I've been wanting to order a pair of shell venetian loafers from Ron Rider and haven't decided between lined or unlined. Any thoughts on the advantages and disadvantages of each?


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## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

Crownship said:


> Would you be able to confirm if it is or isn't safe for shell cordovan to be exposed to salt for extended periods of time without damage?
> Thanks


I lived in Syracuse ("salt city") while in college. They are near the Salinas salt mines and they salt the streets more heavily than other cities (back in 1966 - 1970 in any case).

From my experience the leather (any leather) outlasts the threads that hold it together when exposed to extended exposure to salt laden slush.

My dentist used to tease us and say, "Your teeth are fine; your gums will have to come out."

To paraphrase him, "The leather might be fine, but the shoes will fall apart anyhow."


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Just an update. 
I always had a problem with welts/pimples on my pair of shells when exposed to water. Last night, after reading a few threads, I was determined get results. I rubbed the two day old water welts on my AE Cambridge with a damp cotton cloth repeatedly in a very small circular motion. It works! The key is to be patient and thorough. I will try to get pics next time.

And the crowd says" DUH!"


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## dsmivtr (Nov 1, 2011)

I usually just wear the shoes and eventually the spots go away. Ironic since when the whole shoe gets wet it does not have spotting issues (at least for me).


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I just realized how old this thread was... I was looking at that forest green shell and wondering if I would ever date wear a pair of shoes that color.

If Louis Vuitton hadn't dropped the green from their Taiga collection, I'd have had a whole range of accessories to go with it. As it is, my briefcase and wallet are black.

ETA: found a pair of green shell moccasins on the Leffot web site. Nah, I can't do that.


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## NH102.22 (Oct 25, 2012)

Miket61 said:


> I was looking at that forest green shell and wondering if I would ever dare wear a pair of shoes that color.


I have been seriously considering forest green, but am concerned about how it would look with the rest of my wardrobe.

As for water marks on Horween "crup" leather, I splashed water on my burgundy Carmina 80092 boots while washing my hands the first time I wore them and the spots appeared. Then they got wet in a rainstorm and, sure enough, the toe was covered in them, although from a distance the surface just looked dull. After a few brief brushings (which were only intended to remove dust) and storage in the supplied boot bags for about a month, I took them out to find that the spots are mostly gone. That's mostly, not fully... but I don't mind. Just wear the bloody things!

I also have the Alden 974 in colour no. 8 and have not noticed spotting so far.


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