# He mad...



## halbydurzell (Aug 19, 2012)

https://www.splicetoday.com/consume/prep-to-death

I _sorta_ agree on the Muffy Aldrich stuff, but it sounds to me like this gentleman, a few years from now, will have a closet full of bad, Italian suits to go along with the chip on his shoulder. For someone who keeps bringing up the point "it's just clothes", he seems to be getting awfully worked up about everything else.


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## wrwhiteknight (Mar 20, 2012)

A very very ugly article. What exactly is his point? Some people like to wear _that_ type of clothes....ugh....me angry cave man.

It is also quite strange how he criticizes Muffy for referencing how her husband went to Brown, when the author makes sure to point out that he went to Princeton. I understand that he probably thinks that this entitles him to comment, but it is also rather hypocritical.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Does make a couple of fair points, and the "it's just clothes" goes towards people adopting a lifestyle to go along with the outfit. 

Was rather refreshing, I thought. He does tear through wasp101 in an appropriately decisive manner.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

I hope there is a response from those he excoriates, especially Muffin. It would be like watching your mother-in-law fight a bear. You could enjoy the fight without caring who wins.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

I do wonder where Muffy went to college. I would guess either Connecticut College for Women or Colby Sawyer. Anyone know for certain?


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Meh. It's been done before, and better.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Too much of a good thing...


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

godan;13492 It would be like watching your mother-in-law fight a bear. You could enjoy the fight without caring who wins.[/QUOTE said:


> What a wonderful vision!


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Very funny article. But you could tell that it came, like all the best satire, from a place of great love.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Too much of a good thing...


Bingo. Some decent points, but toned down and cut by half would've been a lot better. Wonder what this guy's take is on The S*rtorialist? Or the "creative class" in "workwear"? Now there's a subject for snarky scorn.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

phyrpowr said:


> Bingo. Some decent points, but toned down and cut by half would've been a lot better. Wonder what this guy's take is on The S*rtorialist? Or the "creative class" in "workwear"? Now there's a subject for snarky scorn.


How mean! Scott just came out with "Skinny malnutritioned women - Part II". It's properly derided at ASW.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

I thought the article was bang on, although I wish the writer had taken a shot at that Noted Ivy Expert Christian Chenswahtever.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I like his article, and it rings true in a number of ways. I also appreciated his comments about Muffy's blog, which I've read from time to time, although I'd hesitate to attack her precisely because she does seem so earnest and well intentioned. Her blog is part of the reason why I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a Barbour Beaufort, which she discusses at great length and often includes in her photographs. I would feel like I'm wearing a costume, more specifically dressing up to pass in her world. A disguise. I'm not into passing and feel no need to pass in her world.

His observations about Princeton sound spot on, as I can attest from my own 6 years at Yale, where indeed the few who really dressed in the Muffy style tended to be members of the "tory" or Conservative political club, whatever they called it. They were d**ks who mourned the loss of the Empire and fantasized about being William F. Buckley's boat b****. I'm not making this up: Buckley selected young Yalies to tend to his yacht. "boat b****" is the term I heard other Yalies use to describe this particularly coveted gig.

The really well dressed Yalies were the dandies, super rich and very gay--whose tastes ran toward Prada and cocaine, not Alden and Moxie. Oscar Wilde, not F. Scott Fitzgerald. God, they threw good parties. Their straight peers, economically speaking, dressed grunge, although I suppose there were Brooks Brothers suits lurking in their closet for interviews with Wall Street firms. They did not throw good parties.

Trad and preppy can look good, very good, but often just bland. And, yes, sexless. Muffy looks handsome, not pretty. Not even feminine. Sack suits can be rather unflattering.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

godan said:


> I hope there is a response from those he excoriates, especially Muffin. It would be like watching your mother-in-law fight a bear. You could enjoy the fight without caring who wins.


+1 and an excellent allegory. I cannot help but wonder, how many of us would be rooting for the bear? LOL, count me as one!


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> I like his article, and it rings true in a number of ways. I also appreciated his comments about Muffy's blog, which I've read from time to time, although I'd hesitate to attack her precisely because she does seem so earnest and well intentioned. Her blog is part of the reason why I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a Barbour Beaufort, which she discusses at great length and often includes in her photographs. I would feel like I'm wearing a costume, more specifically dressing up to pass in her world. A disguise. I'm not into passing and feel no need to pass in her world.
> 
> His observations about Princeton sound spot on, as I can attest from my own 6 years at Yale, where indeed the few who really dressed in the Muffy style tended to be members of the "tory" or Conservative political club, whatever they called it. They were d**ks who mourned the loss of the Empire and fantasized about being William F. Buckley's boat b****. I'm not making this up: Buckley selected young Yalies to tend to his yacht. "boat b****" is the term I heard other Yalies use to describe this particularly coveted gig.
> 
> ...


Nicely put.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

godan said:


> I hope there is a response from those he excoriates, especially Muffin. It would be like watching your mother-in-law fight a bear. You could enjoy the fight without caring who wins.





AldenPyle said:


> Very funny article. But you could tell that it came, like all the best satire, from a place of great love.





Doctor Damage said:


> I thought the article was bang on, although I wish the writer had taken a shot at that Noted Ivy Expert Christian Chenswahtever.


Right on!



tocqueville said:


> [. . .] Yale, where indeed the few who really dressed in the Muffy style tended to be members of the "tory" or Conservative political club, whatever they called it.


POR - Party of the Right. And your description of the good and not-so-good parties and who threw them goes back at least to my era.


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## Yuca (Feb 19, 2011)

Certain prep lifestyle blogs/sites deserve the scorn he gives them, but they are not typical of the majority of internet activity related to ivy clothing.

'I can still understand why some people might pick up on prep for purely aesthetic reasons. When done without too much reverence and fussiness and without too much postmodern riffing the preppy look is indeed timeless, and it works equally well in casual and more formal situations (no one ever resents a blue blazer).'

Very true, but the writer fails to realise that, for most who sport natural shoulder style, the aesthetics are the main if not only motivation. Like her or loathe her, Muffy has little in common with a vintage Brooks fanatic.

'The Ivy League Look is perhaps the least objectionable of all these, since its focus rests squarely on history.'

Again he misses the point. TILL documents a wonderful style, and has nothing to do with the sites he castigates. I suspect that, to most ivy wearers, it is the only site he mentions that is worthy of serious attention.

'If you're dressing preppy in order to convince people of your inherent worth then you need to focus less on clothing and more on psychotherapy.'

Couldn't agree more. But most ivy fans are not trying to convince anyone of anything, we've just fallen in love with the soft collar, gun boats, the high rise, the natural shoulder, etc etc etc.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

The thing that really jumped out at me was that the man doesn't know his poultry. Muffy doesn't hold a "fancy chicken"--she's holding a Plymouth Barred Rock, which are great basic dual-purpose hens. Cold-hardy, too! I love mine.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL. TweedyDon, I never would have guessed you to be a chicken rancher, but certainly do respect you for it!


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

The Barred Plymouth Rock is also the source of "grizzly" hackle, essental to many dry fly patterns.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Not sure if it's in response to this article, since it was posted some time ago, but this tumblr post from Muffy seems appropriate:



The Daily Prep Management said:


> Dear 20 to 30 year-old potential readers,
> 
> Some of you may be concerned that my blog, The Daily Prep, is pre-ironic, and that its sincerity is the product of a square, clueless simpleton who "doesn't get it." Rest assured, the blog is post-ironic, and its sincerity is instead an attempt to rediscover value in a derivative world and a rejection of posers.
> So read with ease.


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## Yuca (Feb 19, 2011)

TweedyDon said:


> The thing that really jumped out at me was that the man doesn't know his poultry. Muffy doesn't hold a "fancy chicken"--she's holding a Plymouth Barred Rock, which are great basic dual-purpose hens. Cold-hardy, too! I love mine.


What would you say is the best natural shoulder chicken?


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## Ivanov (Nov 7, 2012)

Article was fine, can't see anything wrong with it. Ivy Style is remarkably simple and quite unremarkable, but certain Ivy looks are neat and clean. Anyways, I am not the most sympathetic guy, Ive never understood the button down collar thing, I find it goofy.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> Not sure if it's in response to this article, since it was posted some time ago, but this tumblr post from Muffy seems appropriate:


Her comment about "post-irony" makes perfect sense, actually. I get it and respect it, even if I don't share her aesthetics. Reminds me of Jedidiah Purdy's arguments not too long ago against irony, which he wrote while at Yale Law School. My hip and very ironic friends at Yale pilloried him. See here:

https://www.amazon.com/For-Common-T...=1354736536&sr=8-1&keywords=for+common+things


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> I like his article, and it rings true in a number of ways. I also appreciated his comments about Muffy's blog, which I've read from time to time, although I'd hesitate to attack her precisely because she does seem so earnest and well intentioned. Her blog is part of the reason why I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a Barbour Beaufort, which she discusses at great length and often includes in her photographs. I would feel like I'm wearing a costume, more specifically dressing up to pass in her world. A disguise. I'm not into passing and feel no need to pass in her world.
> 
> His observations about Princeton sound spot on, as I can attest from my own 6 years at Yale, where indeed the few who really dressed in the Muffy style tended to be members of the "tory" or Conservative political club, whatever they called it. They were d**ks who mourned the loss of the Empire and fantasized about being William F. Buckley's boat b****. I'm not making this up: Buckley selected young Yalies to tend to his yacht. "boat b****" is the term I heard other Yalies use to describe this particularly coveted gig.
> 
> ...


Well said, except you have appeared to confuse the Irish man of letters with a character from a Brent Easton Ellis novel.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Brio1 said:


> Well said, except you have appeared to confuse the Irish man of letters with a character from a Brent Easton Ellis novel.


I'm thinking less of Wilde the man as Wilde the icon for a certain kind of gay aesthete. Morrissey understood:

A dreaded sunny day 
So I meet you at the cemetry gates 
Keats and Yeats are on your side 
A dreaded sunny day 
So I meet you at the cemetry gates 
Keats and Yeats are on your side 
While Wilde is on mine

And the man certainly dressed with a certain panache, which the people I'm thinking of took to heart:
https://www.google.com/search?q=osc...jIDQAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAQQ_AUoAA&biw=1157&bih=681


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> I'm thinking less of Wilde the man as Wilde the icon for a certain kind of gay aesthete. Morrissey understood:
> 
> A dreaded sunny day
> So I meet you at the cemetry gates
> ...


Forgive me the slight intrusion to the thread, but - Morrissey: a splendid fellow and masterful lyricist. :icon_smile:


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

tocqueville said:


> The really well dressed Yalies were the dandies, super rich and very gay--whose tastes ran toward Prada and cocaine, not Alden and Moxie. Oscar Wilde, not F. Scott Fitzgerald. God, they threw good parties. Their straight peers, economically speaking, dressed grunge, although I suppose there were Brooks Brothers suits lurking in their closet for interviews with Wall Street firms. They did not throw good parties.


So, what is it besides an empty house and lots of booze that is required to throw a good party??

I suppose food and a band were always +++


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> +1 and an excellent allegory. I cannot help but wonder, how many of us would be rooting for the bear? LOL, count me as one!


Not here! I adore mine.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> So, what is it besides an empty house and lots of booze that is required to throw a good party??
> 
> I suppose food and a band were always +++


You have no idea, my friend. And that's probably a good thing. There are parties that only rich young people with extravagant tastes can throw.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Shaver said:


> Forgive me the slight intrusion to the thread, but - Morrissey: a splendid fellow and masterful lyricist. :icon_smile:


One of the very best.

And check out some of these pictures:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mor...YAYXV0gG33YHQAQ&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1157&bih=681


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## BiffBiffster (Jul 2, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> Not here! I adore mine.


Is she alive though?


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

I'm sure that if the author of that piece could only get together and meet with the guy from WASP101, they would find that they were birds of a feather cut from the same cloth and get along thick as two bugs in a pod.


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> I like his article, and it rings true in a number of ways. I also appreciated his comments about Muffy's blog, which I've read from time to time, although I'd hesitate to attack her precisely because she does seem so earnest and well intentioned. Her blog is part of the reason why I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a Barbour Beaufort, which she discusses at great length and often includes in her photographs. I would feel like I'm wearing a costume, more specifically dressing up to pass in her world. A disguise. I'm not into passing and feel no need to pass in her world.
> 
> Trad and preppy can look good, very good, but often just bland. And, yes, sexless. Muffy looks handsome, not pretty. Not even feminine. Sack suits can be rather unflattering.


I agree completely with your post except that I have to say I find her neither well intentioned nor ill intentioned; her blog (and it's earnestness) smacks of a person who subconsiously believes that she does not fit into a group that may (or may not) exist and thus desperately tries to promote and defend what to her are it's defining characteristrics (which again may or may not exist) as this somehow enhances her feeling of membership in it. It shows to me as an ugly pretension posing as unpretiousness whether she, or others, see it that way or not. Regardless her blog insinuates the 'lifestyle' of prep is the 'proper' one which, at least to me, is ugly in and of itself.



Yuca said:


> Certain prep lifestyle blogs/sites deserve the scorn he gives them, but they are not typical of the majority of internet activity related to ivy clothing.
> 
> 'I can still understand why some people might pick up on prep for purely aesthetic reasons. When done without too much reverence and fussiness and without too much postmodern riffing the preppy look is indeed timeless, and it works equally well in casual and more formal situations (no one ever resents a blue blazer).'
> 
> ...


To me, this is a much better analyis of the motivations behind the typical ivy dresser than that of M. Samsky, albeit there are still many fans of any stylistic approach, ivy or otherwise, who are unpleasantly shallow in their adherence to one in search of something or someplace to belong to.



hardline_42 said:


> Not sure if it's in response to this article, since it was posted some time ago, but this tumblr post from Muffy seems appropriate:
> "Dear 20 to 30 year-old potential readers,
> Some of you may be concerned that my blog, The Daily Prep, is pre-ironic, and that its sincerity is the product of a square, clueless simpleton who "doesn't get it." Rest assured, the blog is post-ironic, and its sincerity is instead an attempt to rediscover value in a derivative world and a rejection of posers.
> So read with ease."


I see this quote as rather ironic in that the authors passionate earnestness in her blog coupled with her feigned (to me) casualness has poseur stamped all over it. I find it quite pathetic.

Most people have styles that evolve over time and I don't think one who purchases an Italian suit will necessarily receive less use from the item than one who buys a tweed jacket despite the probable difference in garment durability. As we (typically, but not always) do here on AAAC accepting and enjoying the variety of styles and lifestyles people embrace is a pleasure to watch and, with some limits, a necessity for a broad and healthy mind, something which Muffy spectacularly fails with.

I love the WAYWT thread here, such a great opportunity to see the combinations men with a sharp eye have, often created with shoestring budgets and much hard work. Muffy and some other bloggers remind me of a surgeon friend who spends just a bit too much time reminding people how unimportant to him it is that he makes so much money at his particular craft.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

BiffBiffster said:


> Is she alive though?


Alive, well and traveling the world at eighty-six. Whenever she's back in the country we have her over for a week or so to visit. Love that woman. Like mother, like daughter.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

When I read things like "pre-" and "post-ironic" the steel shutters in my mind come slamming down and I reach for something with substance, like my slipcased edition of Don Martin cartoons.


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

Don Martin, eh? I'm more of an Al Jaffee guy but I like the cut of your jib, sir.



Patrick06790 said:


> When I read things like "pre-" and "post-ironic" the steel shutters in my mind come slamming down and I reach for something with substance, like my slipcased edition of Don Martin cartoons.


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## unmodern (Aug 10, 2009)

I thought this was an unusually well-written essay. I appreciate that straight off. I think the sentiment can be squared with our aesthetic here, in that he is railing against some too-self-conscious takes on trad, what we would call trad-as-costume. Where the line lies is subjective and context-dependent, but there's a way to come out of this article with some notion of traditional dress intact.

Incidentally, I have to agree with him that I find Muffy's blog to be absolutely insufferable. Old money doesn't justify the pretension of reaching for some oversimplified, drab, self-righteous lifestyle that never existed anyway. She acts like her money endows her with some innate skill---like perfect pitch---that she must laboriously and sententiously explain to us poor outsiders. To me, her high horse is very untrad.


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## BiffBiffster (Jul 2, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> Alive, well and traveling the world at eighty-six. Whenever she's back in the country we have her over for a week or so to visit. Love that woman. Like mother, like daughter.


You're a lucky man. In multiple ways. :icon_smile:

(I was only teasing with my earlier query.)


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Patrick06790 said:


> When I read things like "pre-" and "post-ironic" the steel shutters in my mind come slamming down and I reach for something with substance, like my slipcased edition of Don Martin cartoons.


Amen, I get my big book of New Yorker cartoons...or my complete Little Annie Fanny. I'm an English Lit. major, and a lawyer, a word-man from the age of four, and I still never quite know what the hell terms like that are supposed to mean.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Bjorn said:


> How mean! Scott just came out with "Skinny malnutritioned women - Part II". It's properly derided at ASW.


Not derided nearly enough.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Oldsarge said:


> Alive, well and traveling the world at eighty-six. Whenever she's back in the country we have her over for a week or so to visit. Love that woman. Like mother, like daughter.


As another observed, you are a blessed man. However, the proverbial yin and yang of the mother-in-law/son-in-law relationship is at once undeniable, at times approaches legendary proportions and can also be a source of great humor! LOL.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Patrick06790 said:


> When I read things like "pre-" and "post-ironic" the steel shutters in my mind come slamming down and I reach for something with substance, like my slipcased edition of Don Martin cartoons.





Trad-ish said:


> Don Martin, eh? I'm more of an Al Jaffee guy but I like the cut of your jib, sir.


I'm gonna throw in my vote for the inimitable Harvey Kurtzman, I adore his style. :icon_smile:


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

tocqueville said:


> I like his article, and it rings true in a number of ways. I also appreciated his comments about Muffy's blog, which I've read from time to time, although I'd hesitate to attack her precisely because she does seem so earnest and well intentioned. Her blog is part of the reason why I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on a Barbour Beaufort, which she discusses at great length and often includes in her photographs. I would feel like I'm wearing a costume, more specifically dressing up to pass in her world. A disguise. I'm not into passing and feel no need to pass in her world.
> 
> His observations about Princeton sound spot on, as I can attest from my own 6 years at Yale, where indeed the few who really dressed in the Muffy style tended to be members of the "tory" or Conservative political club, whatever they called it. They were d**ks who mourned the loss of the Empire and fantasized about being William F. Buckley's boat b****. I'm not making this up: Buckley selected young Yalies to tend to his yacht. "boat b****" is the term I heard other Yalies use to describe this particularly coveted gig.
> 
> ...


Opinionated. Honest. And entertaining. Well done T-Ville.


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

I think--although I've only been here for about 3 years--that this is the first thread that referenced Morrissey. We should do that more.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

Between the Ivy Style feature on this silly article today and the Put this on feature on Fair Isle discussed in another thread, I think there are a few bloggers lurking in the forum


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

CMDC said:


> I think--although I've only been here for about 3 years--that this is the first thread that referenced Morrissey. We should do that more.


I quite agree: howver, I'll point out that Patrick appeared wearing a black Morrissey tee shirt a couple of weeks ago (perhaps on another website, now that I think of it).


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

Rambler, I wouldn't have pegged you as a Smiths fan. Did you have a misanthropic, mopey, misunderstood phase in the 80s??? If so, I'd love some WAYWT pix from back then.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

CMDC said:


> Rambler, I wouldn't have pegged you as a Smiths fan. Did you have a misanthropic, mopey, misunderstood phase in the 80s??? If so, I'd love some WAYWT pix from back then.


Rumor has it he was a sweet and tender hooligan.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ The last of the famous international playboys? :icon_smile_wink:


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

tocqueville said:


> You have no idea, my friend. And that's probably a good thing. There are parties that only rich young people with extravagant tastes can throw.


...and it helps if the empty house is a beach house!!


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

CMDC said:


> I think--although I've only been here for about 3 years--that this is the first thread that referenced Morrissey. We should do that more.


While I will admit to listening to the Smiths and Morrissey in the 1980s, now I cannot help but think of the Beavis and Butthead episode were they are watching a Morrissey video and Butthead exclaims, "Get off the ground and stop whining, you wuss!"


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Tom Buchanan said:


> While I will admit to listening to the Smiths and Morrissey in the 1980s, now I cannot help but think of the Beavis and Butthead episode were they are watching a Morrissey video and Butthead exclaims, "Get off the ground and stop whining, you wuss!"


The only music they did approve of was Priests 'Breaking the Law' and Sabbath's 'Iron Man' though. Both great riffs but in the words of Mickey Knox - 'In this day and age a man has to have choices, a man has to have a little bit of variety.'


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## halbydurzell (Aug 19, 2012)

I approve of the direction in which this thread has gone. The next time I post an outfit in the WAYW thread, I'll make sure to hold up my signed Oye Esteban dvd. And shove gladioli in my back pocket.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

CMDC said:


> Rambler, I wouldn't have pegged you as a Smiths fan. Did you have a misanthropic, mopey, misunderstood phase in the 80s??? If so, I'd love some WAYWT pix from back then.


In all candor, about 10 years ago my punk-rocking daughter, who spends 3 or 4 months a year touring the country with her band, asked me what I wanted for Christmas. I had a radio tune by the folksinger Bill Morrissey stuck in my head at the moment, so I said "how about a cd by somebody Morrissey," and was surprised that she seemed so pleased with my request. Well, I got a Morrissey cd, and I've been a fan ever since.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

^ If you don't mind me asking Rambler, what's the name of your daughter's band?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Top 5 Morrisey songs?

Reel Around the Fountain.

Eveyday is Like Sunday.

First of the Gang to Die.

Panic.

Last of the Famous International Playboys.


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## BiffBiffster (Jul 2, 2012)

Let's not downplay Johnny Marr.


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

This has turned in a Morrissey thread. Ugh. I had enough of his caterwauling in HS and college. Please, no more Morrissey.


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## BiffBiffster (Jul 2, 2012)

Trad-ish said:


> This has turned in a Morrissey thread. Ugh. I had enough of his caterwauling in HS and college. Please, no more Morrissey.


The Smiths were taking time away from your precious The Proclaimers?


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Trad-ish said:


> This has turned in a Morrissey thread.


My biggest contribution to date to this forum.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

halbydurzell said:


> I approve of the direction in which this thread has gone. The next time I post an outfit in the WAYW thread, I'll make sure to hold up my signed Oye Esteban dvd. And shove gladioli in my back pocket.


What was the gladioli all about? And then there was the hearing aid...


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## Busterdog (Jan 1, 2010)

Never mind all that bollocks. Muffy stirs my loins. As a former officer in a Scottish regiment I'd gladly horse whip Ari Samsky. 

The beautiful, cool, Muffy, reminiscent of Betjeman's Joan Hunter-Dunn - with a bit more mileage!
I like Essex, Connecticut, too!


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> I'm thinking less of Wilde the man as Wilde the icon for a certain kind of gay aesthete. Morrissey understood:
> 
> A dreaded sunny day
> So I meet you at the cemetry gates
> ...


The Moz would not wear Prada nor would he partake in the abuse of cocaine--after all, he is a gentleman. I hearty recommend this biography for those that are fond of Mr. Wilde: https://www.amazon.com/Oscar-Wilde-...8&qid=1354840075&sr=8-1&keywords=wilde+ellman

" What she asked for me at the end of the day/Caligula would have blushed."
Morrisey


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## halbydurzell (Aug 19, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Top 5 Morrisey songs?


Morrissey:
Last of the Famous International Playboys
Speedway
Picadilly Palare
Break up the Family
Suedehead

Smiths:
William it was Really Nothing
Still Ill
Stretch Out and Wait
Jeane
There is a Light...

What was this thread about again?


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

There is a light was rated as one of the top songs ever written by NME years back as I recall. Morrissey can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned. 

First of the Gang to Die is among his modern classics.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

My top 5 Morrissey songs:

Roy's Keen
First of the Gang to Die
Last of the Famous International Playboys
Interlude w/ Siouxsie Sioux
Everyday is Like Sunday


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

"Bigmouth Strikes Again" is my favorite.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Pretty much anything on "The Queen is Dead."


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Wow. This is still going strong. Ok, I'll play, before the Trad mods lock this down:

Still Ill
This Charming Man
Shoplifters of the World
I want the one I can't have
The Boy with the Thorn in His Side
There is a Light
Late Night, Maudlin Street.
Now My Heart is Full
November Spawned a Monster

Oh, that's more than five, isn't it.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

I discovered this documentary online ( The Importance of Being Morrissey) a few months ago:


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)




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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

Can we talk about The Jam next???


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

I think it's interesting that a thread wherein the holiest of members pontificate on how trad is not, never was and will never be anything more than "just clothes," who cast a pox on anyone that would even dare apply the tenets of trad to any other aspect of life (let alone a "lifestyle) and who refuse to believe that there is the slightest connection between the clothes they wear and anything else on the planet are all tickled pink about their mutual love for Morrissey. This is the Trad Forum, by God! We're not allowed to have anything in common here but our clothes. Take it to the Interchange! :biggrin:


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

^ I suspect a number of us grew up during the 80's, a great decade for music.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Trad-ish said:


> This has turned in a Morrissey thread. Ugh. I had enough of his caterwauling in HS and college. Please, no more Morrissey.


How 'bout Dave Matthews?


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Rest assured, Hardline, that I've been contemplating Morrissey while wearing AEs, Bills Khakis, Brooks OCBDs, and an olive tweed J-Press 3/2 sport coat (we'll just pretend the darts aren't there).:smile:


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

Topsider said:


> ^ I suspect a number of us grew up during the 80's, a great decade for music.


Except for all the hair bands. And Morrissey.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Topsider said:


> ^ I suspect a number of us grew up during the 80's, a great decade for music.


No need for the edit, Topsider. I knew what you meant. My comment wasn't about Morrissey (I grew up in the '80s also), but about the irony of some members ardently claiming there is no relation between trad/Ivy/TNSIL and anything other than clothes, and then being pleasantly surprised when, lo and behold, they have a bunch of stuff in common with other members besides clothing (totally coincidentally, of course).

But, since we're on a Smiths/Morrissey wave, I'll throw in my two cents for the most misheard/misunderstood lyrics of 1985:


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I'm more on the SST Records, Replacements, Mekons, Sonic Youth, side of things. The Minutemen. Lou Reed's "New York" album. R.E.M. before Michael Stipe turned into whatever it is he turned into. The Violent Femmes. The Jam before Paul Weller turned into whatever it is he turned into. 

I was indifferent to the hair bands and annoyed by the wedge-head bands. 

Morrissey/Smiths never figured except as an oblique laugh line in the Dead Milkmen's "You'll Dance to Anything." Girls loved that stuff though so I probably know more Smiths songs than I realize.

Muffy would probably not like my musical taste, nor I hers.


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

Patrick06790 said:


> Replacements, R.E.M. before Michael Stipe turned into whatever it is he turned into. The Violent Femmes.


That's much better. I was beginning to worry.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

^ Not just good taste in clothes, great taste in music too. Let it Be by the Replacements is one of my all time favorites - Way better than anything Morrissey/Smiths, whom I also like don't get me wrong.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

So what do we think Muffy listened to? What did über-preppies listen to in the 1980s? The preppies at my high school were mostly into "classic" rock. Softer stuff like CSNY, while me and my anti-preppy friends favored Hendrix and Joplin. Most, of course, were into U2. Only a few knew about the Smiths, which I didn't discover until college.

I could never get into the SST stuff, although I did go through a hard core phase. One highlight was attending a Hüsker Dü concert at an Elks Club opened by Electric Love Muffin, a local Philly band. They did an amazing version of Norwegian Wood. OMG, YouTube has video of this at an Elks Club in Jersey: 




If I recall--to get back to clothing--I almost passed out at that concert because it was 15 degrees F that night in Philadelphia, and I foolishly wore thermal underwear. What I hadn't factored in was the heat of a hundred teenagers slam dance in a confined space.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Muffy should listen to:




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

BiffBiffster said:


> The Smiths were taking time away from your precious The Proclaimers?


The Proclaimers 'Sunshine on Leith' is one of the most moving songs ever recorded. Don't believe me? Check it out:






Sing along!

"While I'm worth my room on this Earth, 
I will be with you. 
While the Chief puts sunshine on Leith........"


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Trip English said:


> My top 5 Morrissey songs:
> 
> Roy's Keen
> First of the Gang to Die
> ...


Trip you de man! Good call. How could I have neglected 'Interlude' from my top 5?



Topsider said:


> ^ I suspect a number of us grew up during the 80's, a great decade for music.


I have been 'growing up' through every decade. I expect I shall reach some approximation of maturity shortly before I die. :wink2:



CMDC said:


> Can we talk about The Jam next???


Fire away! 'A-bomb in Wardour Street' really gets the blood pumping.



Patrick06790 said:


> I'm more on the SST Records, Replacements, Mekons, Sonic Youth, side of things. The Minutemen. *Lou Reed's "New York" *album. R.E.M. before Michael Stipe turned into whatever it is he turned into. The Violent Femmes. The Jam before Paul Weller turned into whatever it is he turned into.
> 
> I was indifferent to the hair bands and annoyed by the wedge-head bands.
> 
> ...


Lou Reeds' New York is criminally under-rated amogst his ouvre. Some of his very best lyrics.

And speaking of lyrics, in an embarassment of riches, Best Morrissey Line?

_"And in the darkened underpass I thought My God! my chance has come at last
But then a strange fear gripped me and I just couldn't ask."_

Profundity beyond the wildest dreams of Milton. :icon_smile_wink:

.
.
.
.
.
.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I just took a look and THIS is Muffy!?!

Words fail me. :biggrin:


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Shaver said:


> I just took a look and THIS is Muffy!?!
> 
> Words fail me. :biggrin:


Stepping into this thread rather late.
What the hell is this?

Always liked "Everyday is like Sunday". Very apt for my teenage years in Dublin.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

_"In Kanazawa I came across a mahogany rack of rugby shirts surmounted by a pair of crossed oars. The oars met over a block legend: FOR GOD, FOR COUNTRY, FOR YALE_"

I sometimes see similar nonsense here in China as well. I just think...WHY? If I ignore it....it might go away?


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

tocqueville said:


> You have no idea, my friend. And that's probably a good thing. There are parties that only rich young people with extravagant tastes can throw.


It wouldn't involve domesticated farm animals, cases of champagne, and closets full of Yoko Ono menswear, would it?


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

tocqueville said:


> So what do we think Muffy listened to?


Jim Nabors perhaps. And when she was feeling naughty, Air Supply...on 10.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Patrick06790 said:


> Muffy would probably not like my musical taste, nor I hers.


I'd imagine that her husband plays the piano while she and her son sing. A few hymns perhaps.

Edit: Unless Morrissey is from New England.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I suspect that this might appeal to her, for some reason :devil:






It's probably the only taste that she and I would have in common........


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Shaver said:


> I just took a look and THIS is Muffy!?!
> 
> Words fail me. :biggrin:


She's a handsome woman and has always impressed me as the model of middle-aged preppy...what's the word...sprezzie(?). For example, I've never seen pics of someone shoveling sh*t out of a barn look so casually elegant. It does seem a little studied...but if it's real, I could happily live that life...in retirement.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
My feiend, having "shoveled sh*t out of a (actually three different) barn(s)" for 'too' many years, as our daughters were going through their crazy about horses faze, I can tell you, there is absolutely nothing "elegant (casual or otherwise) about it...especially the "fragrance" of the barn. It tends to stay with you all day! LOL, I for one am glad that part of my life is over! No offense intended to any horse lovers, in our midst.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> My feiend, having "shoveled sh*t out of a (actually three different) barn(s)" for 'too' many years, as our daughters were going through their crazy about horses faze, I can tell you, there is absolutely nothing "elegant (casual or otherwise) about it...especially the "fragrance" of the barn. It tends to stay with you all day! LOL, I for one am glad that part of my life is over! No offense intended to any horse lovers, in our midst.


Yes, I know that smell. Editing my comment above, I could live that life in retirement...without the horses and, while we're at it, the fancy chickens.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Trip English said:


> I'd imagine that her husband plays the piano while she and her son sing. A few hymns perhaps.
> 
> Edit: Unless Morrissey is from New England.


Trip, you might not be that far off from the truth (Preppy Music?), though I suspect there's a lot of decidedly non-preppy guilty pleasures hidden behind her "of our time" disclaimer. I assume that means whatever the Vampire Weekend equivalent of the 80's would be. Peter Gabriel, maybe?


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

The Pixies, I forgot them. "Bone Machine" knocked me off my barstool at the old Johnny D's in Allston.

Or was that Somerville? Maybe I'm thinking of the Silhouette Lounge. It was a long time ago, and I was very, er. bohemian in those days.

In my Muffy-approved Norwegian sweater, however.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Shaver said:


> Top 5 Morrisey songs?


'Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others' for the 'Carry On' references to Anthony and Cleopatra and crates of ale.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

My family must have missed the "music and groups are _very important" _gene, so just let me add that Christian over at _Ivy Style _just deconstructed this Samsky (i.e., burnt him a new one)


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> Trip, you might not be that far off from the truth (Preppy Music?), though I suspect there's a lot of decidedly non-preppy guilty pleasures hidden behind her "of our time" disclaimer. I assume that means whatever the Vampire Weekend equivalent of the 80's would be. Peter Gabriel, maybe?


Tower Theater, Philadelphia, 1979.


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm with Patrick's list here. For me, its:

Growing up in the 80's, this is the top for me:

1. R.E.M. pre "Losing My Religion." I think "Life's Rich Pageant" is sorely underrated. Chronic Town through Document is a peerless run.
2. Husker Du. Check out their cover of "Eight Miles High" if you haven't heard it. Released as a B-side to my favorite "Makes No Sense at All"
3. Replacements

After that, the list gets murky and bands' production more hit and miss. I will say that the first Violent Femmes album is about as perfect a record as can be.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

No Cure fans here?


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

I actually was a bit of a Cure fan as well--in fact more than the Smiths at the time. By the early 90s though they started to seem a bit weird and played out. Men can only wear eye liner up to a certain age, I'd argue.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> No Cure fans here?


I was somewhat of a fan. (Don't tell Steven Patrick!) "Pictures of You" is one of my favorites: 




I've retained a fondness for shoegazing in general. :smile:


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

CMDC said:


> Can we talk about The Jam next???


All Mod Cons is a great album. Especially "To Be Someone" and "Down in the Tube Station at Midnight." I spent a lot of time in high school listening to that album. That album was largely responsible for me blowing two years worth of after school job savings on a Rickenbacker right before I left for college.

I would also credit The Jam for showing me that being well dressed and being punk were not mutually exclusive. Not that I'm much of a punk anymore.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

CMDC said:


> I'm with Patrick's list here. For me, its:
> 
> Growing up in the 80's, this is the top for me:
> 
> ...


Damn right.
I remember the first plays of the "Green" album on the radio and thinking it sucked. "Orange Crush" I think.
The IRS albums were great.

Recently dug out the first Violent Femmes album for a long hibernation but had to stop playing it in the car when my 5 year old daughter started singing along to "Add It Up".

Still, back on topic, I thought that photo of "Muffy" was a guy in drag.


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

tocqueville said:


> What did über-preppies listen to in the 1980s?.


The Grateful Dead.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Odradek said:


> Still, back on topic, I thought that photo of "Muffy" was a guy in drag.


I swear, some of you posters just like to insult her because it's the thing to do on this forum. If wearing an OCBD and a sweater is dressing in drag, then we all belong in a production of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

hardline_42 said:


> I swear, some of you posters just like to insult her because it's the thing to do on this forum. If wearing an OCBD and a sweater is dressing in drag, then we all belong in a production of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.


Hear hear!

Priscilla II, Queen without darts...

Jokes aside I do find her quite elegant, not unattractive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

hardline_42 said:


> I swear, some of you posters just like to insult her because it's the thing to do on this forum. If wearing an OCBD and a sweater is dressing in drag, then we all belong in a production of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.


Uncanny. This is what happened last time I met up with the guys in Washington


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## Ensiferous (Mar 5, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> Jokes aside I do find her quite elegant, not unattractive.


And why not? Ms. Aldrich is elegant and attractive. And Bjorn, she is of half-Swedish ancestry after all.

Ms. Aldrich appears to be gracious and of good taste at the very least. Her blog likely inspires some people to be a little more discerning & put-together; what is the big problem with that?

I am also very surprised to hear so many supposedly adult males miss the simple opportunity to behave as gentlemen by chosing to refuse to pass judgement behind a woman's back, rather than join the derisions of a stranger who has some sort of chip on their shoulder. Its like catty man-gossip.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> I swear, some of you posters just like to insult her because it's the thing to do on this forum. If wearing an OCBD and a sweater is dressing in drag, then we all belong in a production of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.


Absolutely. It is ludicrous to suggest that Muffy is in drag. She would need to be wearing womens' clothes for that to be true.

What is true, though, is that she is very masculine looking. Not a criticism, merely an observation.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Ensiferous said:


> And why not? Ms. Aldrich is elegant and attractive. And Bjorn, she is of half-Swedish ancestry after all.
> 
> Ms. Aldrich appears to be gracious and of good taste at the very least. Her blog likely inspires some people to be a little more discerning & put-together; what is the big problem with that?
> 
> I am also very surprised to hear so many supposedly adult males miss the simple opportunity to behave as gentlemen by chosing to refuse to pass judgement behind a woman's back, rather than join the derisions of a stranger who has some sort of chip on their shoulder. Its like catty man-gossip.


Ensiferous, I admire your post, but it will fall on deaf ears for about another page's worth of comments. You see, you haven't been here long enough to learn the cycles of the forum. The "Muffy hate thread" is one of them. Every six months, or so, one pops up. They all follow the same basic course:

1) Thread starts innocently enough, pointing out a Daily Prep blog post or some other media in which she is featured that may or may not be relevant to Trad.
2) A few posters start making disparaging remarks about the authenticity of her blog/wardrobe/life.
3) The thread takes a downturn as the "gentlemen" of the forum deride the poor woman incessantly.
4) A few posters who actually know her and her family chime in saying that she's good people, sincere, and that folks in her neck of the woods really do dress/act/live like her.
5) A few brave members chime in saying that they actually like her photos and the write-ups she does about New England towns and their traditions.
6) The thread dies until next time.

We're at about number 3 right now.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

What I really like about Muffy's blog are the the photos of quaint New England villages, 18th Century buildings, and things like that. She has a wonderful eye for that. While I agree that many of the posts in this, and other threads devoted to The Daily Prep are catty, indeed, I can't quite agree that the standards of behavior to a lady in a social situation apply to the author of a public, and often highly opinionated blog. Goes with the territory.


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## BiffBiffster (Jul 2, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> Ensiferous, I admire your post, but it will fall on deaf ears for about another page's worth of comments. You see, you haven't been here long enough to learn the cycles of the forum. The "Muffy hate thread" is one of them. Every six months, or so, one pops up. They all follow the same basic course:
> 
> 1) Thread starts innocently enough, pointing out a Daily Prep blog post or some other media in which she is featured that may or may not be relevant to Trad.
> 2) A few posters start making disparaging remarks about the authenticity of her blog/wardrobe/life.
> ...


How about we lock this one then and simply read 4 to 6 in one of the previous threads and be done with it?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Whoever she is, she has good taste in books. Fascinating reading.


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## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

I get tons of tips from her. Were often wearing identical outfits. I like the androgyny and I think thats one reason she has so many followers. It is interesting for both men and women.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> I swear, some of you posters just like to insult her because it's the thing to do on this forum. If wearing an OCBD and a sweater is dressing in drag, then we all belong in a production of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.





hardline_42 said:


> Ensiferous, I admire your post, but it will fall on deaf ears for about another page's worth of comments. You see, you haven't been here long enough to learn the cycles of the forum. The "Muffy hate thread" is one of them. Every six months, or so, one pops up. They all follow the same basic course:
> 
> 1) Thread starts innocently enough, pointing out a Daily Prep blog post or some other media in which she is featured that may or may not be relevant to Trad.
> 2) A few posters start making disparaging remarks about the authenticity of her blog/wardrobe/life.
> ...


Okay. Apologies all round for my drag comment.
I've no prior knowledge of this Muffy woman and was just reacting to Shaver's post with that photo.










I honestly thought it was a man with earrings and lipstick.

No offence meant. I'll get my coat.


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## halbydurzell (Aug 19, 2012)

I was born in 1980, but if I had to make a top 5 list of 80's "college rock" (for lack of a better term) bands, mine would go:

New Order
Replacements
Smiths
Go-Betweens
Psychedelic Furs

The Cure would most likely be #6. I curiously never liked The Jam outside of "In the City" and "Eton Rifles." Between music talk, muffy hatred, and what trad clothes "signify", can we get this thread to ten pages by Monday?


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

Bjorn said:


> Hear hear!
> 
> Priscilla II, Queen without darts...
> 
> ...


Agreed. She is very attractive and elegant.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Muffy schmuffy. I'm here for the Morrissey.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

I like Muffy, and would probably similarly enjoy a blog about wooden bridges in rural Wisconsin, tranquil spots in the Lakes District or the Pennines, etc. (i.e. any gentle, somewhat timeless place) but definitely don't have a spare moment to seek them out at present. Her blog has the added value in my opinion of making recommendations about quality, timeless clothing of the sort I like. She might not be trad as some of us define it, but I can't understand the antipathy.


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## ArtVandalay (Apr 29, 2010)

I was just recently spinning a beat-up old copy of Reckoning. What a fantastic album.


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

^Yup. "Harborcoat" is gorgeous.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Count me in on REM and Femmes. Don't forget the Talking Heads and the B-52s were still still going in the early 80's. I always thought my lack of Smith love was due to a finite capacity for self-pity, but I might just have bad taste.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I lost interest in Talking Heads after "Remain in Light." When they morphed into a cosmic boogie band I thought, hell, this is what we have P-Funk for.

As for Muffy, I know dozens of them. You can't throw a brick around here without hitting one, so she doesn't strike me as exotic or unusual in any way.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Patrick06790 said:


> I lost interest in Talking Heads after "Remain in Light." When they morphed into a cosmic boogie band I thought, hell, this is what we have P-Funk for.
> 
> As for Muffy, I know dozens of them. You can't throw a brick around here without hitting one, so she doesn't strike me as exotic or unusual in any way.


In your pictures, you dont really look old enough for this to be true.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

AldenPyle said:


> In your pictures, you dont really look old enough for this to be true.


Clean living and a pure heart. (I turn 51 in February, and in January it will be 12 years since I had a drink.)


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm enjoying the music yakking more than the clothes talk.

If anyone wants to get a little more current and push into the 90s, I'm game-----Sleater-Kinney, Stereolab, and heir to the Smiths...Belle and Sebastian.

Discus


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I really like a lot of Stereolab, especially the early material. Very Eno-esque, without the little Oblique Strategies cards and articles in ArtForum.

Maybe we should start a music thread. All the other cool forums have one.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

Patrick06790 said:


> Maybe we should start a music thread. All the other cool forums have one.


...and I thought I had a lot in common with some of the "older guys" here (I'm the same age as Patrick). For me, musical interests cluster around a centre made up of Yes, Pink Floyd, Bach, Mozart, and Miles Davis. Nothing from the '90s and very little from the 80s.

Maybe that is why I tend to stick to clothes on this forum.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

P Hudson said:


> ...and I thought I had a lot in common with some of the "older guys" here (I'm the same age as Patrick). For me, musical interests cluster around a centre made up of Yes, Pink Floyd, Bach, Mozart, and Miles Davis. Nothing from the '90s and very little from the 80s.
> 
> Maybe that is why I tend to stick to clothes on this forum.


Whilst I would rather die than listen to Pink Floyd (no hyperbole, I would honestly rather die) Mozart I will chat about all day long. The Queen of the Night's second aria 'Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen' from the Magic Flute when delivered by a decent soprano (e.g. Lucia Popp) is arguably the most invigorating and spellbinding achievement in the history of Music. I had the distinct pleasure, last week, of attending a bravura performance by Hin Yat (a student from the Hong Kong Academy of Performing Arts) of Mozart's Piano Concerto No 20 in D minor K466.

RE Muffy and androgyny, as mentioned elsewhere. I disagree. I am keen on a little androgyny myself (least said, soonest mended) but to achieve androgyny then characteristics from both sexes are required in admixture. In Muffy I observe only masculinity. I do not consider it the least bit ungentlemanly to make honest and even comment on a lady who has elected to deliberately place herself in the public eye and act as barometer of taste and judgement.

.
..

.
.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

I guess I'm the only one around here who is old enough to remember the best years of Mitch Miller.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

lol, or admit to it. My tastes in pop music, such as they are, were formed in the 60s.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I remember my parents playing their Mitch Miller elpees.


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

xcubbies said:


> I guess I'm the only one around here who is old enough to remember the best years of Mitch Miller.


I'm old enough to well remember the best years of Mitch Miller and young enough to have found his music incredibly bland. I also remember the peak years of Lawrence Welk popularity and mocked him endlessly - although I secretly thought the Lennon Sisters were pretty hot.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Shaver said:


> Whilst I would rather die than listen to Pink Floyd (no hyperbole, I would honestly rather die) Mozart I will chat about all day long. The Queen of the Night's second aria 'Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen' from the Magic Flute when delivered by a decent soprano (e.g. Lucia Popp) is arguably the most invigorating and spellbinding achievement in the history of Music. I had the distinct pleasure, last week, of attending a bravura performance by Hin Yat (a student from the Hong Kong Academy of Performing Arts) of Mozart's Piano Concerto No 20 in D minor K466.
> 
> RE Muffy and androgyny, as mentioned elsewhere. I disagree. I am keen on a little androgyny myself (least said, soonest mended) but to achieve androgyny then characteristics from both sexes are required in admixture. In Muffy I observe only masculinity. I do not consider it the least bit ungentlemanly to make honest and even comment on a lady who has elected to deliberately place herself in the public eye and act as barometer of taste and judgement.
> 
> ...


Honest and even is in the eye of the beholder 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> lol, or admit to it. My tastes in pop music, such as they are, were formed in the 60s.


'50s and Beach Music, which has zero to do with the Beach Boys. It's a sub-genre which was huge in NC/SC/soVA, but practically nowhere else. Remember Mitch and Lawrence on the tube, blah even for a ten year old. Did see Elvis, Beatles, and Stones debut on Ed Sullivan...a truly weird showcase for new music...they may have followed a juggling act, or an old Vaudeville comedian

PS am "Muffy neutral", though big on New England


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

What happened to the "he mad" thread?
What is going on?
Can some please, please, please, let me, let me, let me
get what I want?
Lord knows, this will be the first time...


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

This thread is seasick, yet still docked.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

maximar said:


> What happened to the "he mad" thread?
> What is going on?
> Can some please, please, please, let me, let me, let me
> get what I want?
> Lord knows, this will be the first time...


Wherever you are, Don't lose faith. I know it's gonna happen someday, To you. Please wait . . .Please wait . . .Ah, ha, ha, Wait . . . Don't lose faith.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Speaking of musical tastes, I grew up listening to REM, loved the CURE, Simple Minds, New Order, the Jam and going into the 1990s, Blur, Oasis, Paul Weller Solo, Matthew Sweet. I think by the half of the decade I started exploring jazz, '60s-'70s soul and Jamaican ska. 

My gut feeing Muffy of the Daily Prep is a closeted Cars fan.


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## ArtVandalay (Apr 29, 2010)

Love The Cars. Especially their first two records.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Patrick06790 said:


> 12 years


Congratulations! Easy does it!


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

maximar said:


> What happened to the "he mad" thread?
> What is going on?
> Can some please, please, please, let me, let me, let me
> get what I want?
> Lord knows, this will be the first time...


I tried, a few posts back, then gave up and joined 'em. When they start one upping about "really _classic _bands, mannnnn", there's nothing you can do. These mainly interchangeable groups are very, _very _important


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Patrick06790 said:


> I remember my parents playing their Mitch Miller elpees.


Hey, if we're going to plumb this mine I could bring up the Ernest Tubb show. Not sure if he was on nationally, but was a regular fixture on Saturday nights in Missouri. (And this takes us seamlessly back to the subject of Muffy...)


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> Honest and even is in the eye of the beholder
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Nonsense. It is in the mind of the conveyor. :icon_smile:


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Anyone in the Baltimore vicinity want to start a tradly New Wave band? I've got a drum kit, a guitar, a bass and a few synthesizers.

We could call ourselves "The Natural Shoulders." Or "The Emblematics." Or perhaps simply "GTH."


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

^ Shaver: Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but are you taking into consideration Syd Barrett era Pink Floyd? If not it might change your mind a little.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

leisureclass said:


> ^ Shaver: Obviously it's a matter of opinion, but are you taking into consideration Syd Barrett era Pink Floyd? If not it might change your mind a little.


Sincere apologies - I always think exclusively of the overblown maudlin pseudo intellectual gibberish, targeted at dullard students smoking spliff, that Floyd very quickly became. In this knee-jerk I sadly neglect Syd Barrett's era and which I do rather like - most especially Interstellar Overdrive and Astronomy Domine.

Good point, well made. I must engage my brain more fully in future. :redface:


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Patrick06790 said:


> I remember my parents playing their Mitch Miller elpees.


Me too. Sing along with Mitch!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

P Hudson said:


> I like Muffy...


I think her coffee mug pose is an homage to you!!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Shaver said:


> Absolutely. It is ludicrous to suggest that Muffy is in drag. She would need to be wearing womens' clothes for that to be true.


That is just flat out funny!!


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

L-feld said:


> Anyone in the Baltimore vicinity want to start a tradly New Wave band? I've got a drum kit, a guitar, a bass and a few synthesizers.
> 
> We could call ourselves "The Natural Shoulders." Or "The Emblematics." Or perhaps simply "GTH."


How about The Brooks Brothers?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Patrick06790 said:


> How about The Brooks Brothers?


Playing 3/2 (rock and) roll? :icon_smile_wink:


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## Tim_McD (Aug 20, 2012)

Outstanding thread!

It roams all over the place, it is mildly incoherent, covering the ranting of someone I have never heard of and will never hear from again, onto slamming a Yankee woman's blog and then morphing into a stream of consciousness regarding the alternative music scene 1979 – 2002.

Well done, gentlemen, well done


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Playing 3/2 (rock and) roll? :icon_smile_wink:


Oh dear, 3/2 is not a time signature I'd touch with a 10 foot pole.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Good point, well made. I must engage my brain more fully in future. :redface:


I cast thee out, foul demon! What have you done with Shaver?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

L-feld said:


> Oh dear, 3/2 is not a time signature I'd touch with a 10 foot pole.


3/2 roll jacket... geddit?? :icon_smile_wink:

.
.
.
.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Shaver said:


> 3/2 roll jacket... geddit?? :icon_smile_wink:


Haha, I know. I was kidding.

What would a British trad band be called? Other than the Kinks, of course.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

L-feld said:


> Haha, I know. I was kidding.
> 
> What would a British trad band be called? Other than the Kinks, of course.


Hmmm, I'm at a loss....

Balfour? A little help, please. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

Ensiferous said:


> ...I am also very surprised to hear so many supposedly adult males miss the simple opportunity to behave as gentlemen by chosing to refuse to pass judgement behind a woman's back, rather than join the derisions of a stranger who has some sort of chip on their shoulder. Its like catty man-gossip.


Simple -- she is from a privileged background, leads a privileged existence, and therefore is to be resented.

As to '80s music, let's add the Modern Lovers, Bongos, Siouxsie and the Banshees, The Feelies, The Cucumbers, Robyn Hitchcock.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

L-feld said:


> Haha, I know. I was kidding.
> 
> What would a British trad band be called? Other than the Kinks, of course.


The Temperance Seven 




Acker Bilk and his band 




Kenny Ball and his jazzmen 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeCAQmxq_Ew

New Vaudeville Band 





plus Chris Barber, Ken Colyer


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Hmmm, I'm at a loss....
> 
> Balfour? A little help, please. :icon_smile_wink:


Don't know about a name, but here one is!






I think "GTH" and "3/2 roll" are the winners so far.


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