# Holiday Hours for English American



## EliofromEnglishAmerican (Nov 14, 2009)

Just wanted to let everyone know that we will be closing for the holidays on December 23, 2009 at 5:00 P.M.

Our offices will reopen on January 5, 2009. Elio will be out of town until the 8th of January.

If you have any questions regarding clothing or pricing, please feel free to call us at our showroom.

Wishing everyone a happy, healthy and safe holiday season!

Elio & Lori


----------



## aelred (May 26, 2007)

Hi Lori,

It was great to see you and Elio today, I'm very happy with the suit!

For anybody else reading, EAT has a sale on neckties, 5 for $50 right now...

-s


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

^ Do they mean Christmas ?

I would never shop in a place that called Christmas 'Holidays' anyway.


----------



## CPal (Dec 28, 2003)

Kingstonian said:


> ^ Do they mean Christmas ?
> 
> I would never shop in a place that called Christmas 'Holidays' anyway.


Actually I think they mean Christmas and New Years if you took the time to read the dates shown. I believe the combination of the two would qualify as "Holidays"....


----------



## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Kingstonian said:


> ^ Do they mean Christmas ?
> 
> I would never shop in a place that called Christmas 'Holidays' anyway.


"Holiday" is often used in America instead of Christmas as not to offend those who do not celebrate it. It has a different meaning here than it does in the UK.


----------



## Ioannes (Dec 2, 2009)

I thought a forum that had so many people familiar with conservative fashions would recognize that Christmas runs until Epiphany. January 6 is the "twelfth day of Christmas." The holiday hours encompass almost all of Christmas.


----------



## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> I would never shop in a place that called Christmas 'Holidays' anyway.


And I would never speak with a person who said "happy Christmas," anyway.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Matt S said:


> "Holiday" is often used in America instead of Christmas as not to offend those who do not celebrate it.


Exactly it is just political correctness. You could also make a case for it being anti-Christian. There is no need to put up with that.


----------



## Timeless Fashion (Apr 12, 2009)

I thought they say "Happy Christmas" in the UK rather than "Merry Christmas" as we do in the US.


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Kingstonian said:


> Exactly it is just political correctness. You could also make a case for it being anti-Christian. There is no need to put up with that.


That's the 'ol holiday spirit! ic12337:


----------



## stingray1381 (Apr 19, 2008)

Anyone looking for a great suit with great service should stop in and talk to Elio. He really offers incredible value.


----------



## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

Kingstonian said:


> Exactly it is just political correctness. You could also make a case for it being anti-Christian. There is no need to put up with that.


Kill the Infidels!ic12337:


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

The war on Christmas :-



If minorities do not like Christmas tough. They have their own festivities. They get no hindrance from Christians. Does not stop some of them from being pushy though and trying undermine tradition.

It is time to make a stand against all this bollocks. Start by hitting offending retailers in the pocket.


----------



## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> The war on Christmas :-
> 
> If minorities do not like Christmas tough. They have their own festivities. They get no hindrance from Christians. Does not stop some of them from being pushy though and trying undermine tradition.
> 
> It is time to make a stand against all this bollocks. Start by hitting offending retailers in the pocket.


I don't understand your argument at all - you say that Christians give no hindrance to other cultures' practicing their own holiday traditions, yet in the next paragraph you implore your audience to hit the "offending retailers" in their pockets?

This conversation has gone far, far off the rails and this entire thread should probably just be locked.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

flatline said:


> I don't understand your argument at all - you say that Christians give no hindrance to other cultures' practicing their own holiday traditions, yet in the next paragraph you implore your audience to hit the "offending retailers" in their pockets?


So you just expect people to accept the insult of suppressing Christmas and do nothing.

As bad as it is in the UK (and we have no shortage of nitwit PC types and mischief makers) it has not got to this stage yet.

There is a culture war going on. The majority need to wake up and defend themselves. You choose who you do business with. Make the choice wisely.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

This is a good discussion, perhaps more appropriate for the interchange, though.

I won't move it yet (although I do agree with Kingstonian on this one.) We'll see what develops.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> So you just expect people to accept the insult of suppressing Christmas and do nothing.


How in the h#ll is someone choosing to say "hollidays" instead of "Christmas and New Year's" _insulting_? If someone uses different terminology than you, it's an "insult"? If I say "Saturday and Sunday," have I just insulted people who call it "the weekend"?

Maybe you need a refresher in what insults are. If you're interested, I'd be happy to give you a short course in the matter. Let me know.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

CuffDaddy said:


> How in the h#ll is someone choosing to say "hollidays" instead of "Christmas and New Year's" _insulting_? If someone uses different terminology than you, it's an "insult"? If I say "Saturday and Sunday," have I just insulted people who call it "the weekend"?
> 
> Maybe you need a refresher in what insults are. If you're interested, I'd be happy to give you a short course in the matter. Let me know.


Come off it.

You know full well that banning the word 'Christmas' is a very deliberate insult.

Don't try to be clever.


----------



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

I was going to move this thread earlier due to the blatant unpaid advertising from *English American ! :icon_smile_big:*

But now we have other reasons to move this interesting thread!

Happy Valentines Day!


----------



## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> So you just expect people to accept the insult of suppressing Christmas and do nothing.
> 
> As bad as it is in the UK (and we have no shortage of nitwit PC types and mischief makers) it has not got to this stage yet.
> 
> There is a culture war going on. The majority need to wake up and defend themselves. You choose who you do business with. Make the choice wisely.


I'm upset that I've gotten dragged into this, but ultra-conservative Christians annoy me as much as the staunchest atheists (and yes I am Christian, although certainly not cut from the same cloth as... others). Interchange, here we come...

You are reading too far into these things and just rebroadcasting the "We Say Merry Christmas" garbage from the telly. As far as I know, the Church of England is still the state religion in the UK (at least in name), but in the US, one does NOT live in a Christian nation - you live in a nation where the majority identifies as Christian. The 1st amendment to the US Constitution explicitly forbids the government from enacting any law respecting a religious establishment, forbidding the designation of an official church for the United States.Many retailers have their cashiers say "Happy Holidays," because why not be nice? For centuries, this was totally fine with everybody because it made a lick of good sense. Then, one year, a bunch of feckless dimwits came to an extraordinary conclusion - saying "Happy Holidays" was "politically correct," and everyone who practices Christianity had the right to expect a complete stranger to recognize them as a Christmas practitioner by sight and specifically wish them "Merry Christmas," or else IT WAS WAR.
(Yes, this is from HuffPo, but it is the #1 result on google for "We Say Merry Christmas")​As a citizen and consumer, you are free to speak with your money, giving your business to whomever you like, for whatever reason you concoct. However, let's not go tilting at windmills and flinging accusations and requests for boycotts willy-nilly. I _like_ Jewish delis, Lebanese restaurants, and plenty of other places owned and staffed by non-Christians. Should they be forced to kowtow and sacrifice their own beliefs in the interests of capitalism? (Don't answer that) I mean, it's not like they're saying "Happy Hanukkah" or inviting you to fast with them over Ramadan. You are warping something innocuous - someone not _explicitly_ acknowledging Christmas - into something it's rarely, if ever, meant to be - an attempt to usurp, malign, or otherwise suppress Christmas and Christianity.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> You know full well that banning the word 'Christmas' is a very deliberate insult.


I see that you are also confused about the definition of the word "banning." A ban is when someone else (usually the government) tells you what you can or cannot say. When a private individual or business decides, for its own free-market reasons, what it will or will not say, that's called "freedom of speech." It's actually the _opposite_ of a "ban."

BTW, you do know that the word "holiday" was derived from "HOLY DAY," right?


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Christmas is a cultural event as well as a religious one.

Banning Christmas in a country founded by and based on Western European traditions is effectively allowing the tail to wag the dog.

I found this excerpt which makes a valid point :-

_''The multiculturalists justify their assault on Christmas by claiming that the public celebration of Christmas causes non-Christians to feel "left out." I am skeptical of this claim; I suspect most people are not overwhelmed by the knowledge that others do not always believe as they do. _

_But even if the multiculturalists are right, how much should we worry about those who feel left out by the public celebration of Christmas? We cannot forever shield non-Christians from the reality that they are a minority in America, and suppressing the observances of the majority seems a high price to pay to allow overly sensitive souls to live in a comfortable delusion._

_Of course, children should not be required to participate in school activities of which their parents disapprove, and local control of schools means that districts with large populations of non-Christians will probably have different December activities than districts that reflect the American norm. But a child who does not participate in a Christmas concert is no more excluded than a child whose parents do not allow him to go on a field trip or take a role in a school play. We do not respond to one form of exclusion by banning field trips or plays; we should not respond to the other by banning Christmas._

_The multiculturalists, though, respond to the phony problem of exclusion by trying to ban Christmas because banning Christmas is what they are all about. They are animated by a hatred of Christianity, or of the West, or by sheer envy and resentment of the glories of a holiday they despise. If Christian children benefit from learning about Hanukkah and Kwanzaa and all the rest, shouldn't non-Christian children benefit even more from learning about the holiday most of their countrymen observe? But, of course, the trend has been to load curricula with references to formerly obscure festivals, while assiduously minimizing and even eliminating references to Christmas.''_


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> Banning Christmas in a country founded by and based on Western European traditions is effectively allowing the tail to wag the dog.


_Still_ confused about the meaning of "banning," I see. Well, rest assured, Christmas hasn't been banned yet in America. We put up a Christmas tree in early December at my house, listened to Christmas carols on the radio a great many evenings (my toddler daughter likes them), and even tried to go to church on Christmas Eve. We ended up leaving because the church was so full that we couldn't find a seat. On Christmas day, we opened presents with various other family members, and called those that we couldn't be with.

And neither the police nor the black helicopters ever came to tell us to knock any of it off. Christmas is alive and well, if somewhat commercialized. It's certainly not "banned."


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

CuffDaddy said:


> _Still_ confused about the meaning of "banning," I see. Well, rest assured, Christmas hasn't been banned yet in America. We put up a Christmas tree in early December at my house, listened to Christmas carols on the radio a great many evenings (my toddler daughter likes them), and even tried to go to church on Christmas Eve.


No. You are wilfully ignoring the point that it is public celebrations of Christmas that are under attack.

Nobody gives a toss what you get up in your house. That is not the point under discussion.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> No. You are wilfully ignoring the point that it is public celebrations of Christmas that are under attack.
> 
> Nobody gives a toss what you get up in your house. That is not the point under discussion.


Oh, so it's not a ban of Christmas itself you're talking about, but a ban of public celebrations of it.

Well, less than a mile from my house is a very large shopping mall. There were Christmas trees aplenty in that mall, and every store seemed to be particularly engaged with Christmas. Many of them were even selling Christmas paraphenalia, some of which my wife bought! All of that was happening in public, and the law enforcement officers just stood by doing nothing. Nor did they left a finger when the largest thoroughfare of my city was shut down for several hours in order to permit a parade celebrating Christmas to pass. Nor were there any calls for impeachment when the Obama administration put up a Christmas tree on the White House lawn.

If there's a ban on Christmas, it is, without a doubt, the most pathetically ineffectual ban on anything in the history of the world. I'd find something else to worry about if I were you. Maybe even something real.


----------



## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> No. You are wilfully ignoring the point that it is public celebrations of Christmas that are under attack.
> 
> Nobody gives a toss what you get up in your house. That is not the point under discussion.


You have completely shifted your argument. First you were framing this as a capitalist issue concerning the patronage of businesses that refuse to say "Merry Christmas". Now you're talking about children's school programs?

NO ONE is banning Christmas. You seem to be interpreting someone not participating in the exact same customs and celebrations as you (or the support of such people) as a direct attack. This is incorrect, and I can't debate something with someone who ignores facts or logical reasoning.

Oh! Also, please stop throwing around the term "multiculturalist" like it's a bad thing.

This reminds me of a quote from Peter Griffin. _You know those Germans; if you don't join the party, they come get you._


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

flatline said:


> You have completely shifted your argument. First you were framing this as a capitalist issue concerning the patronage of businesses that refuse to say "Merry Christmas". Now you're talking about children's school programs?


Discussion merely expanded. No change from me.



flatline said:


> NO ONE is banning Christmas. You seem to be interpreting someone not participating in the exact same customs and celebrations as you (or the support of such people) as a direct attack. This is incorrect, and I can't debate something with someone who ignores facts or logical reasoning.


There is nobody as blind as someone who chooses not to see.
I suppose Christmas tree removals and renaming events is not banning in your eyes. You would get on well in a totalitarian regime.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

*'Holiday' greetings to the 'Right On' Brigade*

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all

PLUS

a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great, (not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country or is the only "AMERICA" in the western hemisphere), and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual orientation of the wisher." (Disclaimer: By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher who assumes no responsibility for any unintended emotional stress these greetings may bring to those not caught up in the holiday spirit.


----------



## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> Discussion merely expanded. No change from me.
> 
> There is nobody as blind as someone who chooses not to see.
> I suppose Christmas tree removals and renaming events is not banning in your eyes. You would get on well in a totalitarian regime.


Do you even know what totalitarian _means_? I'm advocating for the understanding and acceptance of all people and their right to believe or not believe whatever they want - you are the one preaching a single publicly recognized, correct religion/set of celebrations.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

flatline said:


> I'm advocating for the understanding and acceptance of all people and their right to believe or not believe whatever they want .


Those are just weasel words to justify oppressing the majority.



flatline said:


> you are the one preaching a single publicly recognized, correct religion/set of celebrations.


No I am not.

I am simply requesting long-standing, traditional Christmas celebrations are not interfered with by mischief makers.


----------



## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> Those are just weasel words to justify oppressing the majority.
> 
> I am simply requesting long-standing, traditional Christmas celebrations are not interfered with by mischief makers.


So that's how it's to be then? "If you're not with us, you're against us"? If you aren't trumpeting the Word loud enough to drown out any dissenters, you must be an active agent of the Beast, set upon the righteous man to sow corruption and oppress his spirit?

Bloody nonsense.

Are you Pat Robertson?


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

flatline said:


> So that's how it's to be then? "If you're not with us, you're against us"? If you aren't trumpeting the Word loud enough to drown out any dissenters, you must be an active agent of the Beast, set upon the righteous man to sow corruption and oppress his spirit?
> 
> Bloody nonsense.
> 
> Are you Pat Robertson?


Wilful misinterpretation again. You seem to specialise in that along with flights of fancy.

We leave your celebration alone so leave Christmas alone. Tolerance is good old Western value. Now we are are asked to tolerate the intolerant minority.

'Live and Let Live'


----------



## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> Wilful misinterpretation again. You seem to specialise in that along with flights of fancy.
> 
> We leave your celebration alone so leave Christmas alone. Tolerance is good old Western value. Now we are are asked to tolerate the intolerant minority.
> 
> 'Live and Let Live'


My celebration _is_ Christmas, as I mentioned earlier. I simply accept a worldview wherein my celebrations and traditions are a personal matter, which may be recognized or even shared by those in my community - at their discretion.

Calling my arguments 'weasel words' isn't a way to influence anyone. Although, as a boy scout I was given a Lenni Lenape native-American name when I received the Vigil Honor in the Order of the Arrow. Translated to English, it means _handsome weasel_. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

flatline said:


> My celebration _is_ Christmas, as I mentioned earlier. I simply accept a worldview wherein my celebrations and traditions are a personal matter, which may be recognized or even shared by those in my community - at their discretion.
> 
> Calling my arguments 'weasel words' isn't a way to influence anyone. Although, as a boy scout I was given a Lenni Lenape native-American name when I received the Vigil Honor in the Order of the Arrow. Translated to English, it means _handsome weasel_. :icon_smile_big:


_''I simply accept a worldview wherein my celebrations and traditions are a personal matter, which may be recognized or even shared by those in my community - at their discretion.''_

That is a really great sentence. It could be worked into my 'Holiday Greeting' post without too much difficulty.

Anyway, time to draw a halt. I have said all I can to explain my view.


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Timeless Fashion said:


> I thought they say "Happy Christmas" in the UK rather than "Merry Christmas" as we do in the US.


Happy And Merry are almost same thing?


----------



## Franko (Nov 11, 2007)

Howard said:


> Happy And Merry are almost same thing?


Depends on whether wine is involved Howard.

Actually we say both as I'm sure you do in the states, the popular greeting is, or was, until this recent 'holidays' malarkey,

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !

Which I belatedly pass on to all.

Cheers.

F.


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Franko said:


> Depends on whether wine is involved Howard.
> 
> Actually we say both as I'm sure you do in the states, the popular greeting is, or was, until this recent 'holidays' malarkey,
> 
> ...


I don't understand why this became a problem.


----------



## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Howard said:


> I don't understand why this became a problem.


Near as I can tell, there is a segment of people that perceive someone saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"* as a deliberate attempt to undermine or destroy Christmas, or placate those who would. Whatever the underlying reason, it is seen as an attack on Christian values and traditions.

Unfortunately, this is exactly the kind of argument that is nearly impossible to 'win'. Both sides of the debate have plenty of vitriol and an unflappable belief that they are correct. No matter how many arguments are made for or against, no matter how eloquent or logical they may be, I've never seen someone just go, "Oh, I see your point. Your view makes sense now," on either side.

*Note that "Happy" and "Merry" aren't really under discussion here - it's the use of "Christmas" and "Holidays"


----------



## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

Howard said:


> I don't understand why this became a problem.


fox news decided it would be a good culture war story, completely made up, but then fiction can be such a good story


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

flatline said:


> Near as I can tell, there is a segment of people that perceive someone saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"* as a deliberate attempt to undermine or destroy Christmas, or placate those who would. Whatever the underlying reason, it is seen as an attack on Christian values and traditions.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is exactly the kind of argument that is nearly impossible to 'win'. Both sides of the debate have plenty of vitriol and an unflappable belief that they are correct. No matter how many arguments are made for or against, no matter how eloquent or logical they may be, I've never seen someone just go, "Oh, I see your point. Your view makes sense now," on either side.
> 
> *Note that "Happy" and "Merry" aren't really under discussion here - it's the use of "Christmas" and "Holidays"


But it's nothing to complain about,I'm sure just about everyone says it towards the end of the year.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Howard said:


> I don't understand why this became a problem.


You could look to a Pat Buchanan quote on the culture war :-

''Who is in your face here? *Who started this?* Who is on the offensive? Who is pushing the envelope? The answer is obvious. A radical Left aided by a cultural elite that detests Christianity and finds Christian moral tenets reactionary and repressive is hell-bent on pushing its amoral values and imposing its ideology on our nation.''

Renaming of Christmas as 'Holidays' counts as the opening shot in my view.

I do not see it in purely religious terms. It is a general attack on Western cultural traditions.


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Kingstonian said:


> You could look to a Pat Buchanan quote on the culture war :-
> 
> ''Who is in your face here? *Who started this?* Who is on the offensive? Who is pushing the envelope? The answer is obvious. A radical Left aided by a cultural elite that detests Christianity and finds Christian moral tenets reactionary and repressive is hell-bent on pushing its amoral values and imposing its ideology on our nation.''
> 
> ...


You Know King,maybe it's best to say nothing at all.


----------



## Matthew Schitck (May 12, 2009)

*Hate Mail*

I think I have spotted the problem here. Kingstonian not only reads the Daily Mail but also seems to believe it.
The Hate Mail tends to present the white male in Britain as under constant attack by a variety of folk devils. In an average week there will be made up stories about dark skinned people, Muslims, the unemployed, Europeans, environmentalists, Health & Safety, homosexuals and young people doing something dreadful to white middle-aged men. Sadly if you uncritically believe all these things you will tend to have deluded belief that you are at war with an oppressive totalitarian state run by radical eco-muslim-health & safety inspectors.
I always thought that some Americans used "Happy Holidays" as they were refering to Christmas and Hanukkah (two Holy days that tend to be close to each other in December).


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I think people should say Happy Holidays whenever there's a holiday coming up and not just Christmas And New Year's.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I'm going to get me feet wet on this one!

I'm neither a conservative and/or WASP Christian or a staunch Atheist I'm your average Irish Roman Catholic.

My views are that when it's Christmas you call it Christmas or at a stretch Yuletide. It isn't "the holidays" or "the festive season" It's Christmas.
PC in the UK and in EU bodies has completely lost the plot!

Everyday in the news one can read of instances where Christianity is having to bend over backwards in the face of other religions, especially the most vocal of them: Islam.
Most recently the outrageous EU ban on Italian schools displaying crucifixes in classrooms. 
And the schoolteacher in England,not in Saudi Arabia or some other dictatorial state as might be expected, but in England, who was told not to have her crucifix visible while at work, so as not to offend non-Christians. Has the UK gone completely MAD? 

One almost feels that the tolerance of Christianity is being taken advantage of in an effort to kid Moslems into thinking that there are no more strong believers of the Christian faith in the UK or Europe!

If Christians were as vocal and actively defensive of their faith as Muslims are then we'd be in line for another Balkans quite soon! 

France, Denmark, England - all of them are on the warpath over the Burka and the other one that only leaves the eyes visible. Those are both articles of clothing worn openly for religious reasons. Yet the predominantly Christian countries of the EU, and UK employers are cracking down on Crucifixes??? 

Something went severely wrong somewhere.

Like I said I'm neither a rabid Christian nor a fanatic Atheist but I am a huge fan of common sense and mutual respect.


----------



## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

Well-said, Earl-and good to see you back.


----------



## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> If Christians were as vocal and actively defensive of their faith as Muslims are then we'd be in line for another Balkans quite soon!


Two things. First, perhaps things are different in the UK, but here in the US I'd wager that 95% of the people that protest Christianity-related things are atheists/agnostics. Sure we have some fanatics, but here in the US Muslims in general tend to keep their heads down and their mouths shut in an effort to avoid drawing attention. All of my Muslim friends are very moderate, and have told me that the Qur'an teaches that the Bible and Christian prophets are holy and to be worshiped. _We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them _(3:84 AYA). _Our Allah and your Allah is One _ (29:46 AYA). As I alluded to in some of my other posts, it is the staunch, smug, know-it-all atheists that tend to protest and rally the loudest.

Secondly, I'm a little confused - are you saying it's OK to go on the warpath over burqas/niqabs, but crucifixes should be left alone? I'm not trying to start an argument on this point; I genuinely can't figure out your stance on the Burqa bans.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Everyday in the news one can read of instances where Christianity is having to bend over backwards in the face of other religions....
> 
> Something went severely wrong somewhere.....
> 
> Like I said I'm neither a rabid Christian nor a fanatic Atheist but I am a huge fan of common sense and mutual respect.


Well said.

That was something I alluded to. However, we do not yet have the specific 'Holidays' issue yet to the same extent as the US.

It is the constant chipping away at common sense that wears you down . The antis - of all types - definitely have an agenda and it needs to be stood up to.


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> My views are that when it's Christmas you call it Christmas or at a stretch Yuletide. It isn't "the holidays" or "the festive season" It's Christmas


I mean What's so "Happy" about it?


----------

