# Great Actor, Terrible Citizen



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

Sean Penn is a terrific actor. Perhaps one the best of his generation. However his politics go beyond the cliche of Hollywood leftist and veer into some very questionable territory. His recent embrace of petty tyrant Hugo Chavez bears witness to Penn's aid to those who wish to undermine the US and threaten our national security.

https://news.aol.com/entertainment/movies/story/_a/sean-penn-meets-hugo-sanchez/20070802110809990002

Of course perhaps we should listen to Penn on these issues, after all he has a BA in international relations from the Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown, did his MA at the LSE and spent four years in the Foreign Service ...................oh wait, I don't think Penn graduated from high school and his experience in foreign affairs is limited to foreign starlets and his role in "Shanghai Surprise" (which has a decent soundtrack btw.) I just don't understand why lefty entertainers are accorded bona fides they have not earned and do not merit. Condi Rice is called a sell out and an Uncle Tom by many on the Left but Sean Penn is lauded as some foreign policy sage

Karl


----------



## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Karl89 said:


> Gents,
> 
> Sean Penn is a terrific actor. Perhaps one the best of his generation. However his politics go beyond the cliche of Hollywood leftie and veer into some very questionable territory. His recent embrace of petty tyrant Hugo Chavez bear witness to Penn's aid to those who wish to undermind the US and threaten our national security.
> 
> ...


C'mon, don't you think Spicoli knows his stuff...


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

But Hugo Chavez likes him - - - -

(So many actors and actresses fit your Thread Title that I had to open it to see who you were discussing! LOL)


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Another fine actress, Jane Fonda has stated her trip to Hanoi was a mistake. Jane has spent a lifetime as 'Hanoi Jane' knowing she alienated a generation of fighting men for a regime that in fact distrusted her. Among the many people in the industry I've met or known, one was very succinct in explaining Penn. Jan VanTamelen was Steve McQueen's first art director, did the old Mannix show and held many other credits. We encountered Sean one day in Malibu. Old Jan was rather acerbic, " He's a stupid, habitual lying Hollywood brat who learned to act after being caught repeatedly ditching school ,stealing cigarettes and God knows what else. He's going to die of lung cancer if he makes it past 50."


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Karl89 said:


> Gents,
> 
> Sean Penn is a terrific actor. Perhaps one the best of his generation. However his politics go beyond the cliche of Hollywood leftie and veer into some very questionable territory. His recent embrace of petty tyrant Hugo Chavez bear witness to Penn's aid to those who wish to undermind the US and threaten our national security.


Chavez doesn't like Bush. Imagine that. Apparently he agrees with 75% of America.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

FrankDC said:


> Chavez doesn't like Bush. Imagine that. Apparently he agrees with 75% of America.


And that has bearing on Penn's credibility exactly how? Master of the Straw Man Frances.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Subscribing to ' The enemy of my enemy is my friend. ' makes for some rather nasty friends Frank.


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Why all of a sudden all these actors get into politics,What do they have to contribute?


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

It's called hubris Howard.


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Oh,so they just need to speak out on some certain issues.


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Kav said:


> Subscribing to ' The enemy of my enemy is my friend. ' makes for some rather nasty friends Frank.


An enemy of whom? He hates Bush and imperialism, like many of us.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

FrankDC said:


> An enemy of whom? He hates Bush and imperialism, like many of us.


Still a straw man and has zero bearing on the OP.

Frank, I feel like you have given up on me. Where is the love?


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Chavez has addressed some social grievances in Venezuela, mainly the racism of the ruling oligarchy so prevelant in South America. It all comes down to a few drops of melanin diluting the seemingly more dear brain chemicals to come up with better strategems. So instead Chavez embraces a failed ideology and will devolute into yet another Pinochet, Castro, Peron, Che or whatever PC model is currently supported with more guns and machetes. And someday somebody else with more guns and machetes will take him out. This is a sorry pattern thats been repeated in both precolumbian nation states and post Conquest. The only difference is the US has assumed the twin persona of sometime Cortez and sometime Simon Bolivar. But instead of learned padres recording the history and writing in often protest home we get old Sean in a blue haze of cigarettes and self delusion. At least ex wife Madonna has embraced sacred kabbala and more costume changes than an opera singer playing 5 parts. It helps to know who and what you are before telling the world how it should be. " Cause we're living in a material world, and I am a material girl."


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Kav said:


> Chavez has addressed some social grievances in Venezuela, mainly the racism of the ruling oligarchy so prevelant in South America. It all comes down to a few drops of melanin diluting the seemingly more dear brain chemicals to come up with better strategems. So instead Chavez embraces a failed ideology and will devolute into yet another Pinochet, Castro, Peron, Che or whatever PC model is currently supported with more guns and machetes. And someday somebody else with more guns and machetes will take him out. This is a sorry pattern thats been repeated in both precolumbian nation states and post Conquest. The only difference is the US has assumed the twin persona of sometime Cortez and sometime Simon Bolivar. But instead of learned padres recording the history and writing in often protest home we get old Sean in a blue haze of cigarettes and self delusion.


As opposed to what, The White Hand? U.S.-backed and funded support of mass murder of tens of thousands in El Salvador, slaughtering of Roman Catholic nuns, assassination of bishops etc etc?

The U.S has no moral high ground from which to proselytize.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

You know, after the Manson Gang murders Hollywood increased it's personal security far beyond the 44 russian New Service my Godfather Jack let me shoot into a figtree one afternoon in Chatsworth California. turned out a lot of the private security guards hired on were ex felons themselves. Chavez is a security guard.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

So...Sean Penn. Anyone think he's doing good by the world in his political actions?


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

FrankDC said:


> The U.S has no moral high ground from which to proselytize.


And you are a US citizen yet seem to have no problem proselytizing. Go figure.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Wayfarer,

We shouldn't be surprised by FrankDC anymore. He demands perfection of the US and nothing from the rest of the world. Give him credit for being consistent - and consitently wrong.

Plus you have to admire his chutzpah, after all he has defended North Korea, Iran, the Soviet Union and host of other assorted evils. One wonders if he would be so brave as to "speak truth to power" in places like Iran, North Korea or Venezuela. Its not ballsy to say George Bush is the devil in the United States. It would be to to call Chavez the same in Caracas, care to walk the walk Frank?

Karl


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Karl89 said:


> Wayfarer,
> 
> We shouldn't be surprised by FrankDC anymore. He demands perfection of the US and nothing from the rest of the world. Give him credit for being consistent - and consitently wrong.
> 
> ...


Has someone else in this forum ever called our armed services a necessary evil? Or accused our Marines of outright murder? Or said that support of "defense of marriage" laws amounts to civil gay bashing?

Don't talk to me about walking the walk and defending beliefs. And if you're looking for someone to claim there's such a thing as a moral politician, like the old song says, it ain't me babe.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

You know, Al Gore's Vietnam service sums up whats wrong with 'liberalism' or 'the left.' The man spent 5 months in Vietnam as a journalist. Nothing unremarkable about that, the army tended to send voluntary enlistees to Germany etc and the draftees to the 'Nam. So Al's engineering support unit rotated in by chance and he finished off his enlistment there. Ah, but Al was issued an M 16 and maybe carried it once in a while. But Al never, as recalled by service buddies " Walked the elephant grass with an M16 and was shot at." This is about as real as the legend of 'Raider Johnston' and his silver star for almost getting shot down as a passenger in a B24 by no less than Saburo Sakei. I like to think I 'walked the walk.' The draft ended just before my year ( and I was lucky # 22) was to be called. I still enlisted, thinking my choice was of greater social value, and ironicaly wound up an 11th hour participant of my generation's nightmare. And I've supported unpopular issues and comitted civil disobedience. But I still paid my taxes, voted in every election and obey most of the laws because even as philosophical anarchist I know the few still more or less observed by SUV drivers keep a sembence of order and safety on the roads. And I am not unaware my nation has done some very evil things in the world. I also know my nation has also done positive things no other nation, friend or foe could or would. Thats why I'm still here and not being interviewed in PyongYang after walking across a DMZ 50 years ago. It's the duty of all citizens to question their government's. It's no less a duty to show loyalty to the country that gave them that right and obligation. You Frank, have only acknowledged half of the bargain that benefits you, and probably from an armchair.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

FrankDC said:


> Has someone else in this forum ever...accused our Marines of outright murder? Or said that support of "defense of marriage" laws amounts to civil gay bashing?


Well no. Most of us here are sane and do not suffer from very apparent and obvious self-loathing.



FrankDC said:


> Don't talk to me about walking the walk and defending beliefs.


Well if you are not willing to defend any of your beliefs, why do you continue to post such virulently hateful things here? Just for shytes and giggles?


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Be fair Wayfarer! I am, by comment thought to be scizoid by a few posters. But my prognosis is making a slow, tortured step into studied medicrity. At least I know I'm sometimes nuts, and have them.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Kav said:


> Be fair Wayfarer! I am, by comment thought to be scizoid by a few posters. But my prognosis is making a slow, tortured step into studied medicrity. At least I know I'm sometimes nuts, and have them.


Kav, some days I consider you to be the sanest one posting. Some days


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

"Everyone is dangerous in their own way, even hobbits"- Gandalf the grey


----------



## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

The only actor one should listen to is Chuck Norris.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Beresford said:


> The only actor one should listen to is Chuck Norris.


Did you know there is no chin under his beard? Nope, just another fist...


----------



## eg1 (Jan 17, 2007)

Sean Penn and his ilk put me in mind of the Film Actors Guild from _Team America_ ...


----------



## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

I believe the best citizens are those who have strong convictions about the nature of this country and the direction it's moving, and the guts to act on their convictions, whether I agree with their positions or not. Even though my politics are decidedly to the left of center, I'm much more comfortable in the company of a right-wing activist than a left-wing wuss who evidences no political conviction at all.


----------



## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

Howard said:


> Why all of a sudden all these actors get into politics,What do they have to contribute?


Because the pubic is obsessed with everything celebs do. They can't take a crap without access hollywood covering it, so they get bored between movies and start in politics to fill the time. Maybe Sean Penn will get to star in a biopic about Chavez one day for this.


----------



## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Howard said:


> Why all of a sudden all these actors get into politics,What do they have to contribute?


They have as much, or as little to contribute as any other citizen in the US. One might ask the same question of the forumites, such as yourself, who blow off on these issues. What do you have to contribute? The answer is to look at what someone says rather than who they are.


----------



## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

Kav said:


> Another fine actress, Jane Fonda has stated her trip to Hanoi was a mistake.


Are you sure? My recollection was that she said that posing for her picture seated atop an anti-aircraft cannon that the Viet Cong used for shooting down American fighters was a mistake, but that she stood by the rest of her actions.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Rip,

I agree he has the right to do so. I just question his cavorting with someone who is openly hostile to the US and the fact that bc of his celebrity hisvies are accorded immediate legitimacy. Sean Penn may not be wrong (though I think he is) on this issue but his views deserve more skepticism than E! or Entertainment Tonight will provide.

And when Sean Penn leads a march of Leftists protesting against the ChiComs, Mugabe or the North Koreans I will at least admire his consistency to hold all governments accountable. Something tells me that I will be witholding my admiration for Penn for a long time.

Karl


----------



## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

rojo said:


> Are you sure? My recollection was that she said that posing for her picture seated atop an anti-aircraft cannon that the Viet Cong used for shooting down American fighters was a mistake, but that she stood by the rest of her actions.


You are correct; she rather emphatically stood by her decision to go to Vietnam, stating only that she felt the cannon shot (pun intended) was inappropriate.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

To be fair, a number of actors have done photo ops with his Holyness the Dalai Lama. I have this penchant for meeting people just before doing so is chic. The Khata His Holyness gifted me is a prize possession and I still have the thankyou letter Julia Butterfly wrote for her sleeping bag. Last time she was down in SoCal I tried to say hello. I was turned away by the combined entourages of Julia and Leonardo De Crappiol doing a power lunch together. Last time I saw his holyness on the news he was being buddied up by Steven Seigal in this japanese silk Nehru jacket looking like a Bon demon on steroids. Ronald Reagan was a lot more fun, leaning over his horse to say hello to my grandfather in our emerald green and black studebaker truck and commenting how all the construction was wrecking his favourite riding trails through the orange groves. I don't know why Ronnie changed to his " see one tree, you've seen them all' anti environmental view. I imagine the stupidy of celebrity influence is matched by celebrity money people.


----------



## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Kav said:


> To be fair, a number of actors have done photo ops with his Holyness the Dalai Lama. I have this penchant for meeting people just before doing so is chic. The Khata His Holyness gifted me is a prize possession and I still have the thankyou letter Julia Butterfly wrote for her sleeping bag. Last time she was down in SoCal I tried to say hello. I was turned away by the combined entourages of Julia and Leonardo De Crappiol doing a power lunch together. Last time I saw his holyness on the news he was being buddied up by Steven Seigal in this japanese silk Nehru jacket looking like a Bon demon on steroids. Ronald Reagan was a lot more fun, leaning over his horse to say hello to my grandfather in our emerald green and black studebaker truck and commenting how all the construction was wrecking his favourite riding trails through the orange groves. I don't know why Ronnie changed to his " see one tree, you've seen them all' anti environmental view. I imagine the stupidy of celebrity influence is matched by celebrity money people.


Not too big on name-dropping, are you?


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Poor Janie is trying to come to terms with a life led with it's share of mistakes. I've had 3 ocassions to hear her speak. Sometimes she still shoots off her mouth. And then there are moments when she is like an actor who wants to ad lib, knows what they should say and somehow can't because their persona is so scripted. I sense a feeling of remorse for hurt caused to the veterans who served and can personally extend forgiveness. One would think these people's agents would advise them to look at such examples and think a little.


----------



## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

RIP, It's merely the luck of beng in the right place at the right time. It doesn't make my carbon imprint in the head smell sweeter. Why, just this morning I mentioned being acquainted with Jan to a fellow gun nut. He called me a liar, said MR Libourel lived in the South of France and hunted birds in Spain. I ever mention running David Carradine off of Kanan-Dune road in my Rover 2000TC?


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

Not wishing to join this vitriolic debate, I will say just one thing. 

Penn took a rowboat to New Orleans, and shouted at Katrina Victims from a bull horn. Thanks Mr. Spiccolli!

Whenever a hiker is lost in the Montana mountains near his home, Harrison Ford mounts the skies in a prop plane. He has saved the lives of several (possibly dozens) of lost boy scouts through his selfless efforts.

Why don't we hear about these stories more often?

Simple. 

Ford isn't doing it for the publicity. He's simply a good citizen who has the means to do something more effectively than most of the rest of us.
One need not hold a press conference if one isn't doing it all for show.

I don't know much else about Harrison Ford, and I'm not saying he's a paragon of virtue. But I know class when I see it.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> Wayfarer,
> 
> We shouldn't be surprised by FrankDC anymore. He demands perfection of the US and nothing from the rest of the world. Give him credit for being consistent - and consitently wrong.
> 
> ...


I thought at the end you were going to say "walk the plank".


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

dpihl said:


> Not wishing to join this vitriolic debate, I will say just one thing.
> 
> Penn took a rowboat to New Orleans, and shouted at Katrina Victims from a bull horn. Thanks Mr. Spiccolli!
> 
> ...


Man, why all the vitriol?


----------



## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

dpihl said:


> Whenever a hiker is lost in the Montana mountains near his home, Harrison Ford mounts the skies in a prop plane. He has saved the lives of several (possibly dozens) of lost boy scouts through his selfless efforts.
> 
> Why don't we hear about these stories more often?
> 
> ...


I think he lives in Wyoming, and I am seriously considering getting hopelessly lost there.

https://www.helis.com/news/2000/harrford.htm


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

rip said:


> They have as much, or as little to contribute as any other citizen in the US. One might ask the same question of the forumites, such as yourself, who blow off on these issues. What do you have to contribute? The answer is to look at what someone says rather than who they are.


Rip,Don't forget Tom Cruise and his love of Scientology a year or so ago.


----------

