# Bi-Swing Sport Coats



## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Are there any RTW bi-swing sport coats with side vents available? Any information is appreciated.

Matt


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Here's one at Orvis: 

Maybe also Ralph Lauren or someplace like that?

You could also try eBay.


----------



## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

Matt Deckard, paging Matt Deckard. Matt Deckard, please report to the Bi-Swing Sport Coats thread.


----------



## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

I have seen these occassionally at Alexander James.


----------



## chorse123 (Apr 14, 2004)

I think I've seen some from Ralph Lauren Purple Label. Definitely the kind of thing that would turn up on ebay.


----------



## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

What the heck is a "Bi-Swing" anyway?

-strictly hetero


----------



## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

A bi-swing jacket has a vertical pleat at either side of the back, just behind the armhole. It's often combined with a half-belt in the back and, if cut right, it allows for greater freedom of movement. Often seen on British shooting jackets, and a very popular feature on odd jackets in the '30s.


----------



## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

Orgetorix said:


> A bi-swing jacket .....


thanks, my mind was elsewhere :devil:

-informed


----------



## robin (Jan 6, 2007)

> A bi-swing jacket has a vertical pleat at either side of the back, just behind the armhole. It's often combined with a half-belt in the back and, if cut right, it allows for greater freedom of movement. Often seen on British shooting jackets, and a very popular feature on odd jackets in the '30s.


They were sometimes referred to as "Norfolk" jackets.


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Orgetorix said:


> A bi-swing jacket has a vertical pleat at either side of the back, just behind the armhole. It's often combined with a half-belt in the back and, if cut right, it allows for greater freedom of movement. Often seen on British shooting jackets, and a very popular feature on odd jackets in the '30s.


I like the look, but when I make the desultory search on the Bay the ones I see usually have shooting patches on the shoulder, which doesn't make any sense to me, a non-hunter.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

A Norfolk has a belt that goes all the way round and fastens by two buttons, plus patch pockets (or such is my impression), and not necessarily the bi-swing (or "action") back itself.

I have a 2btn, center-vented bi-swing jacket in a dark-brown "Donegal"-style tweed from Austin Reed. Picked it up at Syms years ago for something like $99. No belt or half-belt. It's kind of cool because you can actually swing a golf club in it.

I wear it to the October running of Gold Cup here in VA b/c it affords my drinking arm (or arms--I imbibe ambidextrously) such a full range of motion.

That and it looks good with just about any tattersall-check shirtwear.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

robin said:


> They were sometimes referred to as "Norfolk" jackets.


That is really not a norfolk coat. It is a fancy sports coat.

Here is a norfolk coat below.








Straps coming down from the shoulder or yoke and the waist belt. Often there are pocket openings hidden under the straps comeing down. These straps are not pleats. A number of sleeve and collar designs are used with these coats. Not sure I have seen a DB one.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

clothesboy said:


> Matt Deckard, paging Matt Deckard. Matt Deckard, please report to the Bi-Swing Sport Coats thread.


I'm here I'm here...

Well Brooks Brothers made this one a few years back in linen and in tweed... they may still have them on the racks of the bigger stores as they didn't seem to fit anyone quite right. Here is my friend wearing one. Looks okay... um, well I'd make several changes if I were the designer for Brooks, I think Brooks Brothers could have done better.

Believe it or not! Land's End has a tweed one at the moment, I haven't seen it in person though when i do i'll give a review.









I've seen a few at higher end haberdashers like Carroll and Company in Beverly Hills and Marty Mathis in Minneapolis cary sport jackets with bi-swing backs, though they tend to have a fatal flaw that prevents the back from serving the purpose for which it was intended.









J. Peterman made this one a few years back, did a pretty good job too and i was lucky enough to scoop one up... unfortunately it has the flaws that the ones at the high end off the rack companies have.

As for the Ralph Lauren versions... they tend to be very very very very bad in their execution... but then again they aren't expecting you to use the pleats, on RL's jackets they are strictly for looks.


----------



## Winot (Oct 12, 2006)

What's it called when a jacket has a single pleat down the middle of the back? Is it just a swing-back?


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

It's another form of action back...
I like that one a lot as well.

The bi-swing style caught on because it was the style the US military placed on their jackets before WWII broke out. They stopped a little into the war in order to save fabric.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

WA said:


> That is really not a norfolk coat. It is a fancy sports coat.
> 
> Here is a norfolk coat below.
> 
> ...


That is a very handsome jacket! Is it one that is currently available...or just a "blast from the past", meant to tantalize our sartorial appetites?


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> That is a very handsome jacket! Is it one that is currently available...or just a "blast from the past", meant to tantalize our sartorial appetites?


Looks new to my eye


----------



## The Doctor (Oct 17, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> That is a very handsome jacket! Is it one that is currently available...or just a "blast from the past", meant to tantalize our sartorial appetites?


Thank you for those kind words.

It was made about 18 months ago for one of my Boston customers.

Edwin DeBoise

www.steed.co.uk


----------



## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

At one time Pendleton made sport coats in this style. Leather patches on the elbows as I recall but not a shoulder patch and no belt.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

The Doctor said:


> It was made about 18 months ago for one of my Boston customers.
> 
> Edwin DeBoise
> 
> www.steed.co.uk


Been waiting for a third edition of the _The Steed Monitor._

Been thinking about making a norolk for awhile, but what kind of collar do I want? Regular, prussian or something like a cape but smaller, so a real collar. What is best for a lapel- fancy, or usefull for unpleasent weather? Buttons 3-4? Decided against bi-swing shoulders and would use pleats in back instead of sewn on straps. Single piece yoke for front and back over shoulders, Not sure about epaulettes, being I crash through the brush a lot, but they are handy for camera, binocular, etc. The skirts would be three pieces each, so I can have side vents. Cuffs that button up on the sleeve so I can let them down over the hands when cold. The shape of the undersleeve at top would be an S curve like some were made up to about 1820s, but, maybe the rest of the sleeve more modern. This will be used for hiking and walking in the Northwest- Washington State (not DC).


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The Doctor said:


> Thank you for those kind words.
> 
> It was made about 18 months ago for one of my Boston customers.
> 
> ...


Mr DeBoise, you are indeed an artist, who's canvas is tweed, who's brushes and paints are needles and thread and who's patrons are blessed!


----------



## The Doctor (Oct 17, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Mr DeBoise, you are indeed an artist, who's canvas is tweed, who's brushes and paints are needles and thread and who's patrons are blessed!


Thank you, I think I've just found my epitaph. Just need to change the are to were LOL


----------



## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

As always, check Ebay, but be aware that the description might not include such details as bi-swing. I have a travel jacket by Huntington that has a bi-swing back, but without the double vent I picked up on Ebay a couple of years ago for about $10.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Thanks for the tip, Matt--I really like that Lands' End bi-swing coat, not only for its action back but also for the twin vents, the storm-tab collar, the suede elbow patches, and the very nice-looking tweed in a versatile color and pattern.

So I've ordered one, and will post impressions once it arrives.

My biggest reservation is the 3btn, high-roll cut, which I fear will make it too boxy (waist suppression via alterations would appear a dicey prospect, given all that's "going on" back there with the action pleats, the vents, and the half-belt).

But we'll see. If it doesn't work out, it's always a breeze to drop it off at the nearest Sears for a refund.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

Sounds cool. Cant wait to see it.

Don't be bashful with the pics... I want to see the bi-swing in action!


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

There are lots of Norfolk jackets on ebay - new and old.

Mostly they do not have pleats at the back though :-



It is not really my sort of thing - too huntin',shootin' & fishin'.

Old age pensioners' favourite shop Dunn & co. are a source for many of these old jackets but the one above is a new item.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Mattdeckard said:


> Sounds cool. Cant wait to see it.
> 
> Don't be bashful with the pics... I want to see the bi-swing in action!


Sorry, but I don't do pics.

The coat arrived yesterday, in my normal size (48).

It is cut rather full and is way too big. I've ordered a 46 and am about the take the 48 back for a refund.

The jacket is made in India, of a very robust tweed (guess they're not kidding when they say 'thornproof').

All in all, I like it and hope to keep it, assuming the size 46 fits properly.


----------



## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

Winot said:


> What's it called when a jacket has a single pleat down the middle of the back? Is it just a swing-back?


two kinds. a box pleat or a inverted box pleat.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I did this one in a whipcord and I suggest fabrics over 14 oz or tweeds since modern fabrics are so light.

Here is my inverse box pleated deckard & Newcastle action back. took some engeneering to get it right, but it works just like they do on the 1930's jackets.


----------



## budrichard (Apr 3, 2008)

I just had Oxxford make one for me as I couldn't find anything acceptable. Since the fabric was so fine, I decided it wouldn't support patches but had it made with bi-swing, double side vents and rear belt. Only problem is that you pay a lot for this from Oxxford.
I am presntly having Emilio Custom Clothiers make me the same style jacket in a light weight herringbone that will hold up to patches. Coat is about $1200 or so and its not thier bespoke line but MTM. Bespoke from Ermilo will cost about the same from Oxxford.
I will Post the final product when I get it and you can wait or contact Bob and tell him what you want. He understands the shooting trade very well.-Dick


----------



## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

www.bookster1uk.com


----------



## budrichard (Apr 3, 2008)

jamgood said:


> www.bookster1uk.com


Ermilio's jacket looks to be a perfect copy of this jacket

Except he has added a leather patch on top of the shoulder opposite the
gun mounting pad to support the strap of a shoulder bag for cartridges. I don't care for the large patch pockets, so we will have a simple flap pocket instead.-Dick


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

Here are some pics of the center inverted box pleat for the Laureate style suit. The back of one of my clients. I have a few lawyers wearing them to court. I've also got a few other fancy back designs I have yet to put up, but I've always been a sucker for the crazy details.

Matt Deckard Apparel Laureate suit


----------



## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

Winot said:


> What's it called when a jacket has a single pleat down the middle of the back? Is it just a swing-back?


thats called a "box pleat".

if the pleat is turned inside the center seam its a "inverted box pleat".


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

Depends on what side you are on. Either way it looks great.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

And going back to the point of finding ones off the rack...

J. Peterman has another one this year.

Their Grouse Hunting Blazer


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Matt,

You should check out the movie _Changeling_ if you haven't seen it yet.

It's set in 1920s Los Angeles, and I could swear that some of the male characters wear suits with pleated backs.

BTW: While the J. Peterman jacket looks interesting, I do wish the company would ditch those goofy cartoons of its wares and post/print actual photos. I've repeatedly ordered stuff from them only to send it back when it didn't look like I expected it to.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I actually think the drawings are pretty cool. Their sizing is very uniform, so if you trust the idea that the fabric will be good then you may end up with something you really like.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

WA said:


> Here is a norfolk coat below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually some of those "straps" are pleats but, not all of them. If the tailor adds about 4 inches to the width of the coat it would be pleats. Another method is to add straps on the top cloth.

They are nice coats, usually with lots of pockets.


----------



## budrichard (Apr 3, 2008)

I finally recieved this jacket from Ermilio after the Olympics because he was very busy making gear for the riders.
It is a of a cashmere wool blend and is MTM. We changed the patch pockets to flap pockets to reduce the typical Brit 'boxy' look. The left shoulder has a leather reinforcement for a shell bag strap. Very well made and fits great. Jacket would cost about $4KUS fully bespoke so no side vents but center vent.


















Bespoke bi-swing with double side vents from Oxxford. Great fabric(I forget its maker) but I fell in love with it after seeing a jacket made by Oxxford in a Nieman Marcus advert and called Oxxford and had them put away enough to make a jacket. When I got the bolt in my hands, i knew I had made the correct choice.-Dick


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I'd like to see a pic of how that last one looks on you.


----------



## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Kingstonian said:


> There are lots of Norfolk jackets on ebay - new and old.
> 
> Mostly they do not have pleats at the back though :-
> 
> ...


Don't want to get off topic, but since you mentioned Dunn and Co. as being popular with the mature set, is it because of the style offered or because they are cheap? If the latter what would a sport coat price range be?


----------



## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

Orgetorix said:


> A bi-swing jacket has a vertical pleat at either side of the back, just behind the armhole. It's often combined with a half-belt in the back and, if cut right, it allows for greater freedom of movement. Often seen on British shooting jackets, and a very popular feature on odd jackets in the '30s.


Now seen most commonly (at least around here) on the Army ACU uniform.


----------



## jimbob (Jun 24, 2006)

*Bi-swing jacket*

Try Bookster. They are regularly mentioned here and they will do a MTM.


----------



## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Matt,
> 
> You should check out the movie _Changeling_ if you haven't seen it yet.
> 
> ...


yes pleated backs and also belted backs were very popular in that era.


----------



## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

There was mention of Dunn and Co in one of these posts. I googled the name and found they have an interesting website selling vintage British suits and sportcoats and some could be bi-swing.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

Here are some pics of the one I did for Andy.
Bespoke and very 30s in design.


----------



## budrichard (Apr 3, 2008)

Very nice jacket! Classic features! Details are great!
How much?-Dick


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

Depending on fabric. With those details, and keep in mind it's custom, between $700 and $800 US


----------



## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> Old age pensioners' favourite shop Dunn & co. are a source for many of these old jackets but the one above is a new item.


God I remember Dunn & Co when I was in my 20s, "Old age pensioners' favourite" yeh that sounds about right. Think they tried to reinvent themselves as Ciro Citterio, A fake Italian name to sound more trendy, younger, and to try and compete with the likes of Topman and Next. Then they collapsed and vanished.


----------

