# Wife hates the way I dress soooo ...



## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Guess I'm done.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Triathlete said:


> Guess I'm done.


Done with her or done with the way you dress?

Also, since this is a clothing discussion forum, I think some details would be very interesting. That is, what specific parts of your attire does your wife find so objectionable, and how would she prefer that you dress?


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

My wife would prefer I dress in T-shirt and jeans, (much the way I did before discovering AAAC etc), and has told me this several times.

1, she says it makes me look younger.

2, I think it takes pressure off her to dress up.

3, it's a weird Irish thing where trying to dress well is equated with trying to get above your station. This may have a social/political dimension over here too. 
Had a conversation with _Chouan_ on the Fashion Forum about this. He gets the same thing from his Irish wife. Wearing anything other than jeans is "pretentious".

4, no other man around here makes any attempt to dress well, so even my feeble attempts make me stand out like a sore thumb.

Inevitably there's compromise. I dress better when I'm going somewhere on my own than when I'll be meeting people for one thing.
I tend to wear nice shirts and shoes, but often with jeans. Otherwise I'll be over-dressed around here anyway.
Wearing a tie is only for trips into London really, as it just gets odd looks locally.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Just sayin'.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Odradek said:


> My wife would prefer I dress in T-shirt and jeans, (much the way I did before discovering AAAC etc), and has told me this several times.
> 
> 1, she says it makes me look younger.
> 
> ...


Indeed. I bought a lovely tweed suit on ebay for about £25. Hard wearing cloth and a nice pattern which I thought would be ideal for work in colder weather. She went out to work before me on the day I decided to wear it. At work I got several compliments and a colleague even asked where I'd bought it and did they have it in his size, which made me feel very smug indeed! When I got home she said words to the effect of "You didn't go out in that did you? You're such a poser!"


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

Through the years I have both gained and lost customers because of the customers wives. How much one allows one's wife to affect one's clothing decisions is a personal decision.
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors/ www.chippneckwear.com


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Triathlete said:


> Guess I'm done.


Unfortunate but I can't blame you. Advice from one who's been through it: Get a good lawyer and don't sign anything until you do.

And, chin up. There's someone out there who's right for you and will appreciate you for who you are.


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## immanuelrx (Dec 7, 2013)

Triathlete said:


> Guess I'm done.


I'm sorry to here that good Sir. I am very fortunate my wife supported the change in the way I dress. In fact, I sometimes hear from her, "Oh, that looks like something I suggested to you a few years ago that you scoffed at." One of the many things I love about her.


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, she absolutely hates Khakis! The entire Jeans on weekends debate is more hotly contested at the triathlete compound than even on these forums. She would actually prefer me to dress like the picture below when we go out:



Charles Dana said:


> Done with her or done with the way you dress?
> 
> Also, since this is a clothing discussion forum, I think some details would be very interesting. That is, what specific parts of your attire does your wife find so objectionable, and how would she prefer that you dress?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Tell her they're not "khakis," they're chinos and dress twills. Go full bore and go out and purchase some gabardines, wools, and flannels.

Absolutely do NOT spend your hard earned cash on jeans.

In all seriousness, I hope you two can work this out, i.e., you stand up to this nonsense. Unless either or both or you are going out in public in tiger-print yoga pants, your choice of attire should not be an issue that brings you to the brink of divorce. In most relationships, my own included, there's tolerance and even lightheartedness about such trivial differences. Even though my wife likes most of what I choose to wear, there are some items she questions, but then it's viewed more or less as a mild eccentricity that makes me all that much more of an interesting, though sometimes odd, partner.



Triathlete said:


> Well, she absolutely hates Khakis! The entire Jeans on weekends debate is more hotly contested at the triathlete compound than even on these forums. She would actually prefer me to dress like the picture below when we go out:


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Triathlete said:


> Guess I'm done.


What does she hate about the way you dress?


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

+1 for new wife.

When I worked my part-time job in retail at a Polo store, the ugliest neckties and worst clothing combinations were usually purchased by women for their men.

Women's fashion is just so different that I think it's difficult for them to understand the rules.


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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

Perhaps I can be the first to suggest some kind of "happy medium." In fact, could this not be an opportunity for the two of you to spend time together discussing your trad hobby as well as shopping for clothing?
While I certainly don't know your lifestyle, I am guessing that like most married couples you probably spend more time alone outside of the house than you do together. Perhaps you could make an effort to find those items in your wardrobe that she at least can live with when you go out together and she could understand that when you are going out without her (to work or similar,) that you will be dressing in the way that you most enjoy.
I would also suggest that it may be time to have a discussion in which you make it clear to her that this is not just something you threw together but rather that it is something important to you which you have now been working on for some time. You have been an AAAC member for three and a half years now, I think we can consider this more than a passing fad.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

My ex- tried to control what I wore. It wasn't the reason we divorced but it was a symptom of what was wrong.

My new wife and I share an affection for apparel, and while we freely weigh in with our opinions, we also respect one another's freedom to wear whatever makes us happy. Life is much better. At the same time, we also have very similar tastes, so it's hardly even an issue.


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

No, no. Not talking divorce. More drastic than that. I'm actually contemplating stopping by the Walmart and picking up a nice 'date night' outfit. Maybe some carpenter jeans, loose fit, with the little screwdriver holder and hammer loop in them, either print T-shirt or maybe a nice polyester polo shirt, clip on suspenders, and a pair of those Walmart fake Crocks to finish things off. Maybe an outfit from Cabela's.....

She might be ok if I never, ever wore Khaki colored Chinos ever again.....



Duvel said:


> Tell her they're not "khakis," they're chinos and dress twills. Go full bore and go out and purchase some gabardines, wools, and flannels.
> 
> Absolutely do NOT spend your hard earned cash on jeans.
> 
> In all seriousness, I hope you two can work this out, i.e., you stand up to this nonsense. Unless either or both or you are going out in public in tiger-print yoga pants, your choice of attire should not be an issue that brings you to the brink of divorce. In most relationships, my own included, there's tolerance and even lightheartedness about such trivial differences. Even though my wife likes most of what I choose to wear, there are some items she questions, but then it's viewed more or less as a mild eccentricity that makes me all that much more of an interesting, though sometimes odd, partner.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

Odradek said:


> My wife would prefer I dress in T-shirt and jeans, (much the way I did before discovering AAAC etc), and has told me this several times.
> 
> 1, she says it makes me look younger.


"Looking young" is not an isolated goal; if it were, why not carry around a skateboard and go to all kinds of extremes in pursuit of such a thing?

This is a very historically situated obsession; it' s a sign of decadence when people do not want to grow up and look grown up, usually because they are afraid.

People who dress to look "young" look exactly like that: people wanting to look young. Youthful looks are there for but a moment.

The answer is: "Why, my dear, don't you want me to look distinguished and handsome? Are you afraid of growing old? I'm sorry. Let's talk about that."



> 2, I think it takes pressure off her to dress up.


A wife (just as a husband) has a duty to keep herself well; to look her best, at least most of the time. Marriage is not an excuse to "let oneself go." She ought to feel pressure to dress up. Why shouldn't she? Does she feel pressure to get out of bed in the morning? Take a shower? Brush her teeth?



> 3, it's a weird Irish thing where trying to dress well is equated with trying to get above your station. This may have a social/political dimension over here too.
> Had a conversation with _Chouan_ on the Fashion Forum about this. He gets the same thing from his Irish wife. Wearing anything other than jeans is "pretentious".


That Irish lace window thing. As far as clothing goes, that's a holdover from another time, when being able to afford and wear, say, a suit, really meant something about you financially. Not so much anymore.

Plus, every sartorial gesture might then seem "pretentious" - perhaps, one might say, it's pretentious to wear clothes that even remotely fit? Or remotely match? Or, to wear clothes at all? Perhaps it's pretentious to sit down and eat at a table? Et cetera.

And anyway, this sort of perspective misperceives reality; imagining that somehow one can escape convention and just dress in "normal clothes".

*There is simply no escaping convention; they have their convention too, and it's as rigid as an edwardian bowler hat and enforced as a dress code with the same sort of rigor: jeans and t-shirts. *



> 4, no other man around here makes any attempt to dress well, so even my feeble attempts make me stand out like a sore thumb.


I'd reverse that; you're amongst rabble, don't descend to their sartorial ineptitude. Have you ever seen Omega Man? That's about where we are, in more ways than one.



> Inevitably there's compromise. I dress better when I'm going somewhere on my own than when I'll be meeting people for one thing.
> I tend to wear nice shirts and shoes, but often with jeans. Otherwise I'll be over-dressed around here anyway.
> Wearing a tie is only for trips into London really, as it just gets odd looks locally.


Move & get new friends? LOL. Sorry, just having fun.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Triathlete said:


> No, no. Not talking divorce. More drastic than that. I'm actually contemplating stopping by the Walmart and picking up a nice 'date night' outfit. Maybe some carpenter jeans, loose fit, with the little screwdriver holder and hammer loop in them, either print T-shirt or maybe a nice polyester polo shirt, clip on suspenders, and a pair of those Walmart fake Crocks to finish things off. *Maybe an outfit from Cabela's.....*
> 
> She might be ok if I never, ever wore Khaki colored Chinos ever again.....


What's wrong with Cabela's? I've got a great pair of charcoal cavalry twills and some Made in Maine burgundy CXL handsewns from there that I love.

Also, contrary to what you hear over here, there's nothing intrinsically wrong or "non-ivy" about blue jeans. I wouldn't wear any of mine to church or a wedding, mind, but I've got a couple that are new and dark enough to wear with a rumpled OCBD or gingham shirt and some handsewns on a casual date night. It's a nice happy medium in my relationship. She doesn't care for my louder/GTH clothing and would prefer some more casual attire, so I've cut down the really loud stuff to what I really love and invested in a nicer pair of jeans. Now she can't give me too much crap when I wear one of my patchwork tweeds since I'm also wearing jeans like she asked!

Maybe mix in some 5-pocket corduroys or moleskins, some canvas trousers like the ones patagonia makes, or non-khaki heavyweight twills? My olive bullard twills are much less "chino-y" than my regular khakis, for example.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

All very well said, Califax.


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## shadoman (Jun 8, 2014)

Odradek said:


> ... no other man around here makes any attempt to dress well, so even my feeble attempts make me stand out like a sore thumb.
> Wearing a tie is only for trips into London really, as it just gets odd looks locally.


What ? You live where Black Tie is considered correct dress for a music festival !



Triathlete said:


> Well, she absolutely hates Khakis! ... She would actually prefer me to dress like the picture below when we go out:


There ARE worse looks. (Like the outfit you outlined from WallyWorld)
so she's OK with a tie and SC ? It's the Khaki's she's so adamant about ?
(You COULD buy some Khaki colored jeans...)


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

I don't dislike that graybeard's rig. It's a little too studiedly hip, maybe, but I'd probably move in the direction of nubblier ties and such if I didn't have to dress for work (I don't *have* to wear ties to work, but I do not want to look dandyish, and chinos+repp-tie+navy-blazer is so wholesomely American I don't really have to explain it). 

If she wants the slim look, well, that's up to you. It looks bad on me. As for jeans, I like them just fine with a tweed jacket in context; I just don't like them in the "I'm afraid of what will happen to me if I'm seen wearing something other than jeans" mode.

Is it the "dorkiness" of the chinos+OCBD look that she doesn't like?

My wife thinks I should buy shoes at Clark's, and need only look "respectable"; that's just not enough for me. OTOH she doesn't give me a hard time about it.


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## chosenhandle (Aug 8, 2015)

Duvel said:


> My ex- tried to control what I wore. It wasn't the reason we divorced but it was a symptom of what was wrong.
> 
> My new wife and I share an affection for apparel, and while we freely weigh in with our opinions, we also respect one another's freedom to wear whatever makes us happy. Life is much better. At the same time, we also have very similar tastes, so it's hardly even an issue.


this is my story too. My first wife had self image issues (and a truck load of others, but I digress) and hated the idea of me dressing well. My second wife doesn't dress as well as myself, but she really likes the way I look.

Go figure. I think there is some sort of middle ground for you. Good luck.


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## Dieu et les Dames (Jul 18, 2012)

Give her the boot and enjoy your reclaimed closet space.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

My beloved late wife got to tell me a great deal but not a peep about what I chose to wear. And when I get back into the social 'whirl' again I'll make sure that the next lady enjoys my sartorial choices or I'll just move on.


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## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

My wife's sense of style couldn't be further from mine and that's OK with both of us. She grew up a couple of miles north of the Rio Grande and loves bright colors, flowing scarves and almost anything in orange or vibrant green. And she looks great.

I am much, much, much more conservative -- which is how folks described the Ivy-trad look in my formative years.

I love how she looks; it's very 'her.' And she understands what I like. She does stretch my boundaries a bit -- she'll come home with a button-down shirt, but it might be in a bright stripe, or a shade of lilac or something and tell me, 'Not every shirt has to be blue.' 

But isn't that what marriage is supposed to be -- two very different people who recognize the value in each other? I wouldn't think of trying to change the way she dresses, because that makes her happy and comfortable. And she knows I'm a hopeless anachronism and she's content with that.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

My wife, and I had some similar conversations when I started dressing better than how I was previously. Her concern was mainly mixing formalities. If I were to wear a tie she would ask why, and then complain that she has to completely change her outfit, and wear heels. It brought up some unnecessary tension. I bought more OCBDs, so I didn't feel like I had to wear a tie. She is fine with jackets, and chinos, or flannels and blazers. It also helped going to dinner with friends a few times, and seeing the difference of them wearing flip flops, shorts and t-shirts. She now thanks me for dressing as I do.


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## Roycru (Apr 13, 2011)

This was posted by RoSaCe, the cartoonist who created it, over in the other forum.......


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Now come on, Roycru, only graduate students tell jokes with the punch lines in foreign languages. At least provide a translation.:tongue2:


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Oldsarge said:


> Now come on, Roycru, only graduate students tell jokes with the punch lines in foreign languages. At least provide a translation.:tongue2:


Don't worry, you're not missing much.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

Roycru said:


> This was posted by RoSaCe, the cartoonist who created it, over in the other forum.......


Exactly, lol.


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## Starting Late (Apr 26, 2010)

I wear what I want and what I feel comfortable wearing, taking into account the task at hand. That makes me better dressed than about 95% of the people around me. When some people ask why I am "dressed up," I say, "I'm not. This what I felt like wearing." That is usually the end of that. Most people, however, will not say anything. My girlfriend supports whatever I wear, as long as it's clean and it fits. I tend not to stay around with people who give me grief for being dressed appropriately - life's too short.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Dear Triathlete, Of course your wife hates the way you dress. Truth be told, they hate anything that gives us men pleasure because they simply hate us, period. It's merely a reflection of their black little souls. They will rain on our parades any chance they get.

The simple solution is to dress as you please and ignore your wife. She'll probably come to terms with it and may even start complimenting you on what she formerly hated, perverse and inconsistent creatures that they are. (Believe me, I know this from experience.)

Beware of advice to get a new wife. Better the devil you know. It could well be case of "out of the frying pan and into fire." They're all pretty irrational, foul-tempered creatures.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

JLibourel said:


> Dear Triathlete, Of course your wife hates the way you dress. Truth be told, they hate anything that gives us men pleasure because they simply hate us, period. It's merely a reflection of their black little souls. They will rain on our parades any chance they get.
> 
> The simple solution is to dress as you please and ignore your wife. She'll probably come to terms with it and may even start complimenting you on what she formerly hated, perverse and inconsistent creatures that they are. (Believe me, I know this from experience.)
> 
> Beware of advice to get a new wife. Better the devil you know. It could well be case of "out of the frying pan and into fire." They're all pretty irrational, foul-tempered creatures.


Wow, do you feel that way about your mom also?


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## WICaniac (Sep 25, 2013)

Odradek said:


> 2, I think it takes pressure off her to dress up.
> 
> 4, no other man around here makes any attempt to dress well, so even my feeble attempts make me stand out like a sore thumb.


I was getting these until I started buying her enough nice clothes so that she could keep up. We're now codependent enablers.

I very rarely wear jeans--but happen to be wearing them today...with a Harris Tweed sport coat...and a beard...and a variant of that hairstyle. None of it purchased at Walmart or Cabelas, however. It's clear that your wife dislikes chinos; it's not at all clear what she likes based on this picture and the stores you suggest she prefers.


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, she actually despises Walmart and Cabella's (ex-husband thing) so I would only go just to be an ass. Honestly, she just doesn't like Khaki colored chinos. None of them. She really does like the way I look in jeans. I mean really. So, maybe wearing jeans every once in a while is a fair concession. That's actually the only comments she makes. Oh, and references to "So, Jake at State Farm, what are you wearing" .... "Uh, Khakis" ..........



WICaniac said:


> I was getting these until I started buying her enough nice clothes so that she could keep up. We're now codependent enablers.
> 
> I very rarely wear jeans--but happen to be wearing them today...with a Harris Tweed sport coat...and a beard...and a variant of that hairstyle. None of it purchased at Walmart or Cabelas, however. It's clear that your wife dislikes chinos; it's not at all clear what she likes based on this picture and the stores you suggest she prefers.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

There is a lot to be said for adjusting your style choices slowly.


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## ran23 (Dec 11, 2014)

My wife hates the way I dress also. I lost 50 lbs before age 60. Went from 42 to 38-R, Large to medium, and really didn't have much a a style about me. That is when I went looking for a plan, some of you know the 'Ultimate Wardrobe' that lead me to Navy Blazer, Tweed and my new favorite 'plaid'. My wife had just retired and didn't dress up much for anything. she went back to work a few days a week and that is when a tie and jacket feels right for the day. Khakis, dress shirt,swede oxfords and harrington type of jacket is the best I can wear around her. no ties or jackets. life is fun


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## immanuelrx (Dec 7, 2013)

JLibourel said:


> Dear Triathlete, Of course your wife hates the way you dress. Truth be told, they hate anything that gives us men pleasure because they simply hate us, period. It's merely a reflection of their black little souls. They will rain on our parades any chance they get.
> 
> The simple solution is to dress as you please and ignore your wife. She'll probably come to terms with it and may even start complimenting you on what she formerly hated, perverse and inconsistent creatures that they are. (Believe me, I know this from experience.)
> 
> Beware of advice to get a new wife. Better the devil you know. It could well be case of "out of the frying pan and into fire." They're all pretty irrational, foul-tempered creatures.


i really hope this is a joke. All this divorce talk or leaving your wife to keep your close is silly. I would take a happy wife over clothes any day. Triathlete, I don't know if this is just a minor annoyance or is actually causing marital issues (I would find it strange if it was causing marital issues and would wonder if there is another reason why) but in the end, if it makes your wife happy then you are making the right decision. My pride and joy is my shoe collection and I would get rid of it for pennies on the dollar if it caused issues in my marriage. Nothing brings me greater joy on earth than my wife and kids and I would give up the world for them.


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't fret ... no risk of anything serious over clothes. Did i mention she really doesn't like the color, fit, and look of khaki colored chinos? Anyhow, I decided to compromise. I stopped tonight and bought a pair of slimmer Khaki colored and dark denim wash denim Levis. The Khaki colored Levis are the biggest compromise. All will be well....



immanuelrx said:


> i really hope this is a joke. All this divorce talk or leaving your wife to keep your close is silly. I would take a happy wife over clothes any day. Triathlete, I don't know if this is just a minor annoyance or is actually causing marital issues (I would find it strange if it was causing marital issues and would wonder if there is another reason why) but in the end, if it makes your wife happy then you are making the right decision. My pride and joy is my shoe collection and I would get rid of it for pennies on the dollar if it caused issues in my marriage. Nothing brings me greater joy on earth than my wife and kids and I would give up the world for them.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Same here, only I'm gonna look good while I'm doing it.



immanuelrx said:


> Nothing brings me greater joy on earth than my wife and kids and *I would give up the world for them*.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

immanuelrx said:


> i really hope this is a joke. All this divorce talk or leaving your wife to keep your close is silly. I would take a happy wife over clothes any day.


But clothes are for real, the "happy wife" is a mythical creature! At best their good moods are very fleeting. C'mon, you married guys, you know that wives are always P.O.'ed about something.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

JLibourel said:


> Truth be told, they hate anything that gives us men pleasure because they simply hate us, period. It's merely a reflection of their little souls. They will rain on our parades any chance they get.
> 
> The simple solution is to dress as you please and ignore your wife...They're all pretty irrational, foul-tempered creatures.


Well said.


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## immanuelrx (Dec 7, 2013)

JLibourel said:


> But clothes are for real, the "happy wife" is a mythical creature! At best their good moods are very fleeting. C'mon, you married guys, you know that wives are always P.O.'ed about something.


 I would take a day of my wife being POed than a day without her easily. I am sorry you haven't found this mythical creature, because many of us have and are better men because of it. He who finds a wife, finds a good thing.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

immanuelrx said:


> My pride and joy is my shoe collection and I would get rid of it for pennies on the dollar if it caused issues in my marriage.


Thanks for the laugh! I needed that. I love surreal humor, and you obviously have a brilliant knack for creating it. Careful, though: Another statement like that, hilarious as it is, could cause the entire Ask Andy web site to crash.


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

immanuelrx said:


> He who finds a wife, finds a good thing.


You obviously haven't met my ex.....


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Ahh..... the mantra "I love my wife. I would do *anything* to keep her happy".

Now, accepting (if you must) that love may possess certain qualities beyond the chemical/biological urge to mate then it is postulated that we may qualify the characteristics of a psychological basis for this amorphous phenomenon as a combination of intimacy, commitment and passion. In this model, love becomes an activity which one engages in and not solely something one feels. It is difficult to extricate narcissism from any theory of love as a social and/or cognitive construct. This being so, a love based upon declaration of commitment (such as the notion "I love my wife - I would do anything to keep her happy") is a voluntary subsumation of one's own personality to a larger, more dominant, will. A deeply feminine personality trait and not one to be encouraged, celebrated nor allowed to remain unchallenged when expressed by males.

Oh, and "harumph!"


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## RolandG (Mar 4, 2014)

Shaver is right, of course. As usual.

Short term, a wife might be happy that her husband is so compliant with her wishes. Long term, she loses any respect for her submissive hubby.

As far as the "I love my wife. I would do anything to keep her happy" is concerned. Why doesn't that apply vice versa? If the wife loves the husband, surely she can be expected to do (almost) anything to keep him happy, as well. A loving wife wouldn't criticize her husband for dressing well. Well, at least my girlfried doesn't.

I think this sort of criticism is based in a subconscious fear of competition. "If he dresses better than before, other women will notice. They will try to take him away from me. If he keeps dressing that way, I have to step up in order to prevent that. It's easier to keep him at slob level, then the other women won't take notice of him."


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## immanuelrx (Dec 7, 2013)

RolandG said:


> Shaver is right, of course. As usual.
> 
> Short term, a wife might be happy that her husband is so compliant with her wishes. Long term, she loses any respect for her submissive hubby.
> 
> ...


I think there is a difference (in my mind at least) of what is being discussed and doing everything to keep the wife happy. I can't delve into the complexity of what is going on with triathlete's situation, but my wife would never do so. You are right, there needs to be equal love and submission for this dynamic to work properly. I guess I need to caveat my comments with the notion that my wife would only ask me to not do something if more was at stake. Knowing my wife and most likely after many conversations I would submit if it is really important to her. She does the same for me. There has been times where we both demanded unknowingly unreasonable requests and we shut each other down. We compliment one another, we support one another, and we comply with one another when it is important to the each other. Neither of us would comply when it is unreasonable or dangerous. Sometimes love means protecting us from ourselves. There is so much more than, "Sure honey, whatever makes you happy."


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

RolandG said:


> Short term, a wife might be happy that her husband is so compliant with her wishes. Long term, she loses any respect for her submissive hubby.


Exactly. Tough love keeps them in their place. Catering to the whims of a woman is a fool's errand.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

So true.

And in my own case, that dominant will had grown, let's say, morbidly large.



Shaver said:


> Ahh..... the mantra "I love my wife. I would do *anything* to keep her happy".
> 
> Now, accepting (if you must) that love may possess certain qualities beyond the chemical/biological urge to mate then it is postulated that we may qualify the characteristics of a psychological basis for this amorphous phenomenon as a combination of intimacy, commitment and passion. In this model, love becomes an activity which one engages in and not solely something one feels. It is difficult to extricate narcissism from any theory of love as a social and/or cognitive construct. This being so, a love based upon declaration of commitment (such as the notion "I love my wife - I would do anything to keep her happy") is a* voluntary subsumation of one's own personality to a larger, more dominant, will.* A deeply feminine personality trait and not one to be encouraged, celebrated nor allowed to remain unchallenged when expressed by males.
> 
> Oh, and "harumph!"


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

I am blessed to have a Proverbs 31 wife. I adore her and put her on a pedestal, but she is properly obedient and submissive to her husband and would never try to tell me what clothes I should wear. I can't even imagine....especially the mocking example that Triathlete gave.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> My beloved late wife got to tell me a great deal but not a peep about what I chose to wear. And when I get back into the social 'whirl' again I'll make sure that the next lady enjoys my sartorial choices or I'll just move on.


Based on what I know about you from your various posts, I have no doubt that your wife was a wonderful woman. So sorry for your loss, Oldsarge.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Shaver said:


> Ahh..... the mantra "I love my wife. I would do *anything* to keep her happy".
> 
> Now, accepting (if you must) that love may possess certain qualities beyond the chemical/biological urge to mate then it is postulated that we may qualify the characteristics of a psychological basis for this amorphous phenomenon as a combination of intimacy, commitment and passion. In this model, love becomes an activity which one engages in and not solely something one feels. It is difficult to extricate narcissism from any theory of love as a social and/or cognitive construct. This being so, a love based upon declaration of commitment (such as the notion "I love my wife - I would do anything to keep her happy") is a voluntary subsumation of one's own personality to a larger, more dominant, will. A deeply feminine personality trait and not one to be encouraged, celebrated nor allowed to remain unchallenged when expressed by males.
> 
> Oh, and "harumph!"


I agree with the "harumph". I must say that as far as dress is concerned, as I've said before, I tend to compromise. By wearing jeans I can wear any kind of coat or jacket I like, because the wearing of jeans "proves" to her (sufficiently) that I'm not being pretentious. Although she expresses disapproval at times of my more formal dress for work, the only notice I take is if she tells me that my shirt and tie don't go together, as she is usually right. That I take notice of this gives her the feeling of power that all women crave, whilst allowing me to do, essentially what I want. Similarly, although she'll go on and on about my having far too many shoes, far too many clothes etc, as long as I indulge her complaining and agree with her, verbally, if insincerely, I can still continue to buy more.....


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

FLCracka said:


> I am blessed to have a Proverbs 31 wife. I adore her and put her on a pedestal, but she is properly obedient and submissive to her husband and would never try to tell me what clothes I should wear. I can't even imagine....especially the mocking example that Triathlete gave.


I too have a "Proverbs 31" wife, magnificent in too many ways to count, although perhaps not quite as submissive as the biblical paradigm suggests. (She gave up ironing my shirts years ago!) She would never attempt to impose her will on me, but occasionally will let me know when she is not enamored of a particular article of clothing.

We are both very blessed, FLCracka!


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

There was a time when my wife wasn't exactly thrilled with my attempts to dress like an adult. I just ignored her, and slowly, over time explained a little bit about why I was dressing as I was. She learned to accept it......

....Not without some compromise. While I generally have an idea of what I will wear, if we are doing something together I'll give her some options and ask her which shirt she thinks will look better, or which tie. Of course I make sure either option works, but including her makes her feel a little better. There are enough times when we are doing something for which jeans or much more casual clothing is appropriate, dog training, hiking, fishing and such, that sometimes it's a not even a consideration. I think those times temper the other times when she may want me to dress otherwise, but doesn't say anything.


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

Triathlete said:


> Don't fret ... no risk of anything serious over clothes. Did i mention she really doesn't like the color, fit, and look of khaki colored chinos? Anyhow, I decided to compromise. I stopped tonight and bought a pair of slimmer Khaki colored and dark denim wash denim Levis. The Khaki colored Levis are the biggest compromise. All will be well....


As you seem to have discovered, there are options. Not sure khaki colored denim would be my choice, but if it works for you......

As for chinos, I am not a huge fan of the standard khaki colour so I've been buying chinos in other variants of the colour. BB has a nice dark tan chino, and EB has a brown chino. I've got both, and really like them better than khaki. (I do own, and sometimes wear khaki) I've also seen, and plan to one day buy, mustard coloured chinos.

Another option, but it'll cause some real discomfort, sometime after she makes a particularly snarky, or bitter statement about your choice of clothing wear something completely off the radar that you know will make her pissed and embarrassed. In the past, before my wife accepted my current style, if she'd made a real stink about what I'd wear, the next day I'd wear my kilt for no real reason. She soon learned she'd rather I dress in what she viewed as a more standard way than randomly wearing a kilt, and started to accept it.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Is the submissive wife trad?  Regardless of her faults, my ex-wife had great qualities, too, and one that I admired was her _refusal _to play the submissive wife. The thing that attracted me in the beginning was her independence and intelligence, real strengths, if you ask me, and I would have been bored with a Stepford housewife who was not her own person.

My new wife and I get along so perfectly it's scary, but it's not because either of us submits or suppresses our will, beliefs, independence, etc.

I can't say that I am blessed with my current spousal choice as I am a non-believer. (If heaven exists, I'm sure I'll have no trouble getting in, as people bless me and tell me to have a blessed day almost daily.) However, I might say that I am privileged and deeply honored.


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

Jeans. One rule. Always wear them at the rodeo, whether sitting on a bull or in the bleachers. This applies to your wife too, the jeans at the rodeo, not the bull riding. Otherwise, you're on your own. Deciding factor: do you look good in jeans? Some men do, some don't. To take U.S. Presidents, as random a sample as any, Ronald Reagan looked good in them, Barack Obama doesn't. For all his Texas bluster neither did George W. Bush. I don't recall JFK, a presidential clotheshorse, in them, but I doubt they'd work for him -- everything trad did. Pretty much all men from Western states do because they grow up in them so it's their second skin. Easterners not so much. Midwesterners, many but not all do. Southerners if they have some Bubba in them; if they don't, they look best in trad. Of the current batch of hopefuls, some of the tall and lean outliers probably do but none of the front runners; Bernie Sanders looks like old worn-out LL Bean gear would serve him well. As for Hillary, stick to the pants suit, though if campaigning takes her to a rodeo, that's a tough call.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Good points! Jeans are a situational, individual, and contextual choice, for sure. If I wear them, I look like a Midwestern suburban Dad, a look I do not aspire to.



efdll said:


> Jeans. One rule. Always wear them at the rodeo, whether sitting on a bull or in the bleachers. This applies to your wife too, the jeans at the rodeo, not the bull riding. Otherwise, you're on your own. Deciding factor: do you look good in jeans? Some men do, some don't. To take U.S. Presidents, as random a sample as any, Ronald Reagan looked good in them, Barack Obama doesn't. For all his Texas bluster neither did George W. Bush. I don't recall JFK, a presidential clotheshorse, in them, but I doubt they'd work for him -- everything trad did. Pretty much all men from Western states do because they grow up in them so it's their second skin. Easterners not so much. Midwesterners, many but not all do. Southerners if they have some Bubba in them; if they don't, they look best in trad. Of the current batch of hopefuls, some of the tall and lean outliers probably do but none of the front runners; Bernie Sanders looks like old worn-out LL Bean gear would serve him well. As for Hillary, stick to the pants suit, though if campaigning takes her to a rodeo, that's a tough call.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Roycru said:


> This was posted by RoSaCe, the cartoonist who created it, over in the other forum.......


Does anyone but me think the character in the red ball cap looks like Bernie Madoff? :crazy:



FLCracka said:


> I am blessed to have a Proverbs 31 wife. I adore her and put her on a pedestal, but she is properly obedient and submissive to her husband and would never try to tell me what clothes I should wear. I can't even imagine....especially the mocking example that Triathlete gave.





Tiger said:


> I too have a "Proverbs 31" wife, magnificent in too many ways to count, although perhaps not quite as submissive as the biblical paradigm suggests. (She gave up ironing my shirts years ago!) She would never attempt to impose her will on me, but occasionally will let me know when she is not enamored of a particular article of clothing.
> 
> We are both very blessed, FLCracka!


....and a hearty +1 to the sentiments expressed by both FlCracka and Tiger. My wife tells me that it was the way I dressed, "so much neater/better than many of my associates," that initially drew her attention to me. Ironically, these days, she does occasionally encourage me to pull on a pair of Levi 501's and a chambray shirt to go out for a casual outing...perhaps it's a throwback to days gone by, when it was a OD flight suit (a fatigue uniform of sorts) that used to get her motor running! In any event, in terms of our relationship, I suspect she puts up with more crap from me than I am challenged with, from her! Fair dinkum, eh?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Why should she care what you wear? It's your body and your life so why can't you wear whatever you want? Whatever makes you feel comfortable.


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## sonny (May 21, 2010)

Triathlete said:


> Well, she actually despises Walmart and Cabella's (ex-husband thing) so I would only go just to be an ass. Honestly, she just doesn't like Khaki colored chinos. None of them. She really does like the way I look in jeans. I mean really. So, maybe wearing jeans every once in a while is a fair concession. That's actually the only comments she makes. Oh, and references to "So, Jake at State Farm, what are you wearing" .... "Uh, Khakis" ..........


Dump the khakis!


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Triathlete, could it be how you're wearing the chinos? I can see objections to certain choices, e.g., with a tucked in polo, or uncuffed, not ironed, not creased, too baggy, too tight, etc. 

I can't see how anyone could object to something so authentically traditional and American, as long as it is worn correctly--cuffed, no break, slim-fitting but no overly so, medium to high waist, with a proper belt.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

It's interesting that you took it that way. I'd suggest you're climbing the ladder of inference.

That was hardly my intention. Of course, now that you've quoted me, I can hardly revise it to make it seemingly less offensive. (I don't think it is.)

I don't think it's cute or otherwise becoming either to call out others for making an innocuous remark, simply because it might not align with one's own beliefs.

For those of us who don't happen to believe (and I would assume we can be respectful of that choice here), it is always a bit odd or disconcerting to have the stranger or even acquaintance presume they should bless us. As a former Catholic, I find that odd, too, as I grew up thinking the only people who could bless others were priests.



FLCracka said:


> It's really not cute or otherwise becoming to mock others' religious beliefs.


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## Roycru (Apr 13, 2011)

As I do not speak French, I have no idea what the French words in the cartoon that I posted say. I imagine that the boy sitting down is making fun of the silly looking boy wearing a ball cap although he is not a ball player, wearing jeans although he is not a cowboy working cattle, and looking like, as some in the UK say, "mutton dressed as lamb".

I also imagine that this cartoon, from the same artist, is making fun of those tiresome characters who post bizarre comments about what those who post pictures are wearing, but who never post pictures of what they are wearing.


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## clark_kent (Aug 26, 2015)

Tri, I don't think this was asked but what were you dressing like when you two first met? Or your dressing was overlooked?

I remember when I created that thread about getting appreciated / recognized for dressing well, I actually had stuff like this in mind. To us, and other lovers of trad/prep, you dress really well, but your wife feels you should make some changes. 

This certainly isn't a divorcing matter lol and you established that yourself.


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## clark_kent (Aug 26, 2015)

Duvel said:


> Is the submissive wife trad?  Regardless of her faults, my ex-wife had great qualities, too, and one that I admired was *her refusal to play the submissive wife.*The thing that attracted me in the beginning was her independence and intelligence, real strengths, if you ask me, and I would have been bored with a Stepford housewife who was not her own person.
> 
> My new wife and I get along so perfectly it's scary, but it's not because either of us submits or suppresses our will, beliefs, independence, etc.


Not married yet, but I would like this too! I find it boring when the woman I'm with plays that submissive role.

Sounds like you got yourself a good catch there, Duvel!


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

"Tri, I don't think this was asked but what were you dressing like when you two first met? Or your dressing was overlooked?"

I always dressed nicely. Just a little more preppy now, like I did when younger. The bottom line is that she is ok with everything, as long as I don't wear tan/khaki colored chinos.


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## clark_kent (Aug 26, 2015)

Howard said:


> Why should she care what you wear? It's your body and your life so why can't you wear whatever you want? Whatever makes you feel comfortable.


Howie, people have a preference for tattoos / no tattoos, breast size, butt size, height, weight, skin complexion, etc when choosing a mate. It certainly plays a role in the attraction factor. I think clothing and fashion style, to a lesser degree, extends to that.

Some guys wouldn't want a woman wearing clothing that "reveals" too much. It's her body, why can't she wear what she wants, right?

Fashion is actually a "deal breaker" for some people when choosing a mate. I'm realizing more and more of late that I want a wife whose style will complement mine!


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## clark_kent (Aug 26, 2015)

Triathlete said:


> "Tri, I don't think this was asked but what were you dressing like when you two first met? Or your dressing was overlooked?"
> 
> I always dressed nicely. Just a little more preppy now, like I did when younger. The bottom line is that she is ok with everything, as long as I don't wear tan/khaki colored chinos.


Cool. That's an easy fix. Just send ALL your tan/khaki colored chinos to me


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

Why not expand your horizons a bit? Maybe try out the streetwear & denim look? You could have lots of fun learning about, acquiring and wearing this type of clothing. There is just as much creativity and Americana in this manner of dressing as in the trad manner. You would not need to dress this way all the time: mastering a part-time dressed-down look could limit complaints from your wife’s ratty-dressing friends that you’re too fancy, and provide some goodwill for future tradly outfits. So speaking of Goodwill, maybe head to the thrift store and get a flight jacket with a nice patina and some vintage Cartier sunglasses. Trying to dress younger is not really trad, to be sure, but something similar can be done respectably without involving Robert Graham shirts and a new Miata. Or maybe just get a new wife - I would certainly hesitate to disagree with Andy’s advice.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Thank you, c.k. I do have a good catch. And so does she! 



clark_kent said:


> Not married yet, but I would like this too! I find it boring when the woman I'm with plays that submissive role.
> 
> Sounds like you got yourself a good catch there, Duvel!


It sorta happened like this:


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Just remember... in the end what counts is what you bring to the clothes, not what they give to you.



Triathlete said:


> "Tri, I don't think this was asked but what were you dressing like when you two first met? Or your dressing was overlooked?"
> 
> I always dressed nicely. Just a little more preppy now, like I did when younger. The bottom line is that she is ok with everything, as long as I don't wear tan/khaki colored chinos.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Roycru said:


> This was posted by RoSaCe, the cartoonist who created it, over in the other forum.......


Since Roycru doesn't read French, here's my best attempt at a translation:

"Didier (name of character), this outfit doesn't make you look "young". At best, it's an "old-fart-who-wants-to-appear- young" look."


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Roycru said:


> As I do not speak French, I have no idea what the French words in the cartoon that I posted say. I imagine that the boy sitting down is making fun of the silly looking boy wearing a ball cap although he is not a ball player, wearing jeans although he is not a cowboy working cattle, and looking like, as some in the UK say, "mutton dressed as lamb".
> 
> I also imagine that this cartoon, from the same artist, is making fun of those tiresome characters who post bizarre comments about what those who post pictures are wearing, but who never post pictures of what they are wearing.


The translation for this one would be:

"Good Lord, black socks don't go with Brown shoes. What an absolute fashion faux-pas"

" I hand you out a red card" (red card is a reference to soccer/football).


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Duvel said:


> Triathlete, could it be how you're wearing the chinos? I can see objections to certain choices, e.g., with a tucked in polo, or uncuffed, not ironed, not creased, too baggy, too tight, etc.
> 
> I can't see how anyone could object to something so authentically traditional and American, as long as it is worn correctly--cuffed, no break, slim-fitting but no overly so, medium to high waist, with a proper belt.


Hunh? Khakis are military in origin. Hence (or so I have been told, anyway)they are at their best flat-fronted and uncuffed.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I do not concur!



JLibourel said:


> Hunh? Khakis are military in origin. Hence (or so I have been told, anyway)they are at their best flat-fronted and uncuffed.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Duvel said:


> Unfortunate but I can't blame you. Advice from one who's been through it: Get a good lawyer and don't sign anything until you do.
> 
> And, chin up. There's someone out there who's right for you and will appreciate you for who you are.


You beat me to it. Well done.


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Duvel,

Can you back that up with references? Those prep-school kids and Ivy League guys only started wearing Khakis after WWII and the soldiers started showing up on campus in the only clothes they had and could afford, their Khakis from their service days. Call it what you want. Glamorize it all you want, but it was a way for all those rich kids to rebel. Please show me historical, verified references of no break, cuffed, cotton, Tan colored pants being worn mainstream prior to WWII.

And this this is for everybody and not directed at you. Show me one single photo, any at all, where a pair of Khakis is more flattering on a man than a pair of darker, slimmer fitting chinos?? I look at all the WAYWT posts here and I haven't seen one. The darker colors always look better. Always.

Im not picking on you, I'm just saying. We can glamorize Khakis all we want but truth be told, they ain't the most flattering thing you can wear on your bottom half.



Duvel said:


> I do not concur!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Roycru said:


> As I do not speak French, I have no idea what the French words in the cartoon that I posted say. I imagine that the boy sitting down is making fun of the silly looking boy wearing a ball cap although he is not a ball player, wearing jeans although he is not a cowboy working cattle, and looking like, as some in the UK say, "mutton dressed as lamb".
> 
> I also imagine that this cartoon, from the same artist, is making fun of *those tiresome characters who post bizarre comments about what those who post pictures are wearing, but who never post pictures of what they are wearing.*


It would be terribly remiss of us to allow Roycru's sentiment to dwindle without echo and so: QFT.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I can't, because I agree about the the historical precedent. I should have been clearer that I was not concuring with the idea that the historical look is the better one. I don't think it is.



Triathlete said:


> Duvel,
> 
> Can you back that up with references? Those prep-school kids and Ivy League guys only started wearing Khakis after WWII and the soldiers started showing up on campus in the only clothes they had and could afford, their Khakis from their service days. Call it what you want. Glamorize it all you want, but it was a way for all those rich kids to rebel. Please show me historical, verified references of no break, cuffed, cotton, Tan colored pants being worn mainstream prior to WWII.
> 
> ...


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Chouan said:


> Indeed. I bought a lovely tweed suit on ebay for about £25. Hard wearing cloth and a nice pattern which I thought would be ideal for work in colder weather. She went out to work before me on the day I decided to wear it. At work I got several compliments and a colleague even asked where I'd bought it and did they have it in his size, which made me feel very smug indeed! When I got home she said words to the effect of "You didn't go out in that did you? You're such a poser!"


Ha!
Just back from a night out with my wife and four other couples.
Before we left the house my wife was looking dubious about the tweed trousers I was wearing with a white ocbd shirt, and suggested jeans and a pinkish houndstooth shirt I have.
Stuck with my vague plan and added a tweed waistcoat, striped wool tie and a gun check jacket.

Of course, as I expected, although all the women present were well dressed for dinner, I was the only man not wearing jeans. 
Jeans and an open necked shirt, either tucked in or not, was the way to go.
I ditched the tie after a few minutes, as apart from marking me out as a weirdo, the restaurant was very warm.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Odradek said:


> Ha!
> Just back from a night out with my wife and four other couples.
> Before we left the house my wife was looking dubious about the tweed trousers I was wearing with a white ocbd shirt, and suggested jeans and a pinkish houndstooth shirt I have.
> Stuck with my vague plan and added a tweed waistcoat, striped wool tie and a gun check jacket.
> ...


I'm big on situational appropriateness. The waistcoat, tie, and jacket sounded like obvious overkill for the situation, just asking to stick out like a sore thumb. I do agree that jeans have become way too prevalent at nicer restaurants, many of which wouldn't have even seated jeans-wearing patrons 20 years ago.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Odradek said:


> Of course, as I expected, although all the women present were well dressed for dinner, I was the only man not wearing jeans...Jeans and an open necked shirt, either tucked in or not, was the way to go...


Bearing in mind the dress of the women, I would say that it was the be-jeaned men, not yourself, who were inappropriately dressed.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

williamson said:


> Bearing in mind the dress of the women, I would say that it was the be-jeaned men, not yourself, who were inappropriately dressed.


I concur; the propensity to wear jeans at dinner is increasingly commonplace, but that ubiquity doesn't make it appropriate.

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right." - Thomas Paine


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Are we talking about the "successful older man in fashion jeans (and driving moccasins or bit loafers)" look, or the "tweed jacket and scruffier jeans" look? As it happens, I meet plenty of men who've sold their companies and opted for the former look, and I have convoluted reasons for wanting to avoid it (along with golf, and a new Boxster). I strongly suspect that OP's wife might be influenced by the perceptions of younger women that 1, pleats are forever "out"; 2, that chinos are dorky and schoolboyish; 3, jeans somehow exonerate you from the charge of trying too hard (when, obviously, the posted example is clearly trying to demonstrate a "look"); 4, that being overdressed for an event is worse than being underdressed.

I agree with Triathlete that chinos with a razor crease contradict their practical origin, but that's part of the idealization of a "trad" look. You could say the same thing about moleskins, or cavalry twills, after all.

I don't want to attack people (the other party-goers, OP's wife) who aren't here to defend themselves, esp. when my own thoughts on the matter aren't fully formed. I'd opt for a tweed jacket at a minimum _just because I need to practice looking put-together_. Jeans, OK, fine, if it's beers and wings, or we're grilling meat outside. Shirt untucked? No way.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

That was a great post, SlideGuitarist...


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## jimw (May 4, 2009)

My wife is a bit bemused by my fascination with clothes, but respects the fact that much of my wardrobe was purchased for pennies on the dollar at thrift stores and clearance sales. The only time I remember her being a bit piqued was my purchase of shell Imperials for $400 (which in itself was still a pretty good buy).

My own selfish satisfaction comes when I get compliments from other men's wives - mind you, these men are not trying to look like bums, but I think they get caught up in their own peer pressure - dressing up a pair of Docker khakis with a quick dry Under Armor polo seems appropriate to them, but as mentioned before, their wives invariably took great care to dress up for the occasion and the contrast is clear.

Short of having a group of underdressed husbands take me behind the restaurant to 'sort me out' for upstaging them, I like to think that I've done my wife proud by matching her own efforts, and perhaps to let other men know that they too are "better than that". They don't have to go all 'trad' - certainly they can craft a look that suggests thought and care of how they've dressed for an occasion, is all. I know I've been inspired and impressed by the way other men have turned themselves out; there's nothing wrong with this.

In the end, though, I'm probably just full of s&^% - really, I'm dressing for myself and as an suitable accessory to my wife, and that's what matters.


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Look at my last post in the Trad WAYWT thread. She love the outfit. Pants that fie me and aren't wind-bags. Dark in color so not Khaki drab and boring. She just doesn't like Khakis. Plain and simple. The only pair she says look nice are my Lands End Tailor Fit Plain Front, with cuffs. They fit really well ... Meaning slim and tailored. Bill's Khakis are not in my future.

She likes my Tweed jackets. With Cords, Jeans, Flannels. Not with Khakis. Except for my Lands End 'Tailored Fit.' Starting to see a pattern?



SlideGuitarist said:


> Are we talking about the "successful older man in fashion jeans (and driving moccasins or bit loafers)" look, or the "tweed jacket and scruffier jeans" look? As it happens, I meet plenty of men who've sold their companies and opted for the former look, and I have convoluted reasons for wanting to avoid it (along with golf, and a new Boxster). I strongly suspect that OP's wife might be influenced by the perceptions of younger women that 1, pleats are forever "out"; 2, that chinos are dorky and schoolboyish; 3, jeans somehow exonerate you from the charge of trying too hard (when, obviously, the posted example is clearly trying to demonstrate a "look"); 4, that being overdressed for an event is worse than being underdressed.
> 
> I agree with Triathlete that chinos with a razor crease contradict their practical origin, but that's part of the idealization of a "trad" look. You could say the same thing about moleskins, or cavalry twills, after all.
> 
> I don't want to attack people (the other party-goers, OP's wife) who aren't here to defend themselves, esp. when my own thoughts on the matter aren't fully formed. I'd opt for a tweed jacket at a minimum _just because I need to practice looking put-together_. Jeans, OK, fine, if it's beers and wings, or we're grilling meat outside. Shirt untucked? No way.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Um...she doesn't like khakis?

You look fine, by the way, not that it's my place to judge. So problem solved, right? No one's going to ding you for wearing corduroys and chocolate chukkas, right? Given that khaki is _supposed to be _ a drab color, I can't really argue the point.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Tell her they're twills, not khakis. 

But this is really not the point. Wear them anyway, and wear whatever you like, regardless of what she thinks. If you developed an irrational dislike for a conventional garment that she wore routinely, would she stop wearing it?

I know you like menswear rules, as such. One I read about frequently is that we men need to have at least a couple of pairs of chinos in the closet, preferably ones that are a little dressy and keep a crease.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

Listen, there are worse things in life than substituting a pair of nice Levis for khakis. If that is all that is at issue, you can make concessions. A nice pair of corduroy jeans could also work.

I'm guessing she would probably approve of the Kiel James Patrick look. He does jeans with all the other items you mentioned. You will still be far better dressed than if you went with baggy jeans and sneakers.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

In life, perhaps. In dressing for oneself, it's hard to think of anything worse.

By the way, check out this excellent blog: https://averageguysguidetostyle.blogspot.com/

A lot of good writing here about not only how to dress well affordably but also how and why you should feel comfortable doing so, even while all others around you are slovenly. He makes a point here and there about how dressing well indeed _will _make you stick out like a sore thumb because almost everyone else is content to leave the house looking like a slob.



universitystripe said:


> Listen, *there are worse things in life than substituting a pair of nice Levis for khakis.* If that is all that is at issue, you can make concessions. A nice pair of corduroy jeans could also work.
> 
> I'm guessing she would probably approve of the Kiel James Patrick look. He does jeans with all the other items you mentioned. You will still be far better dressed than if you went with baggy jeans and sneakers.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

Dressing for oneself depends entirely on what one wants out of their clothing. A lot of people dress well to appear attractive, especially to one's partner.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

True enough. I guess, as a married man whose wife is generally, most days, content with him, I feel that I can dress however I wish. One of the perks of the happily married life!



universitystripe said:


> Dressing for oneself depends entirely on what one wants out of their clothing. A lot of people dress well to appear attractive, especially to one's partner.


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## clark_kent (Aug 26, 2015)

Triathlete said:


> Look at my last post in the Trad WAYWT thread. She love the outfit. Pants that fie me and aren't wind-bags. Dark in color so not Khaki drab and boring. She just doesn't like Khakis. Plain and simple. The only pair she says look nice are my Lands End Tailor Fit Plain Front, with cuffs. They fit really well ... Meaning slim and tailored. Bill's Khakis are not in my future.
> 
> She likes my Tweed jackets. With Cords, Jeans, Flannels. Not with Khakis. Except for my Lands End 'Tailored Fit.' Starting to see a pattern?


Lol looks like the Mrs really knows that fit is the most important rule in fashion!

I'm curious, you said Bill's isn't in your future, which M did you go for? They have an M4 line which is supposedly slim and could fit you like the LE tailored look you mentioned.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

clark_kent said:


> Lol looks like the Mrs really knows that fit is the most important rule in fashion! ...


In the population at large - not us very focused-on-clothes forum members - I'd say women have a better understanding of the importance of fit / tailoring their clothes than men do. So it's not surprising that she'd like the best tailored ones of Triathlete - her eye is used to looking for fit / tailoring - that's my guess.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm not sure if it has been previously suggested, but would tan colored wool trousers work? If I'm wearing a coat/tie I generally prefer these to cotton twills anyway.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

mjo_1 said:


> I'm not sure if it has been previously suggested, but would tan colored wool trousers work? If I'm wearing a coat/tie I generally prefer these to cotton twills anyway.


As do I. Somehow the mix of a wool sport coat, especially with a collared shirt and tie, over cotton khakis seems out of balance to me. With tan wool trousers, the garments on the upper and lower body seem to have a better relationship to one another.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

godan said:


> As do I. Somehow the mix of a wool sport coat, especially with a collared shirt and tie, over cotton khakis seems out of balance to me. With tan wool trousers, the garments on the upper and lower body seem to have a better relationship to one another.


That's my take on the matter. I've been told on here before that this look is too "pedestrian," but to me it's more harmonious to wear wool trousers with a more formal sport coat. I do a worsted 3/2 blazer, pinpoint button down, tie or bow and tan gabs fairly often. Now if you're talking a more casual tweed, than twills seem more appropriate.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

mjo_1 said:


> That's my take on the matter. I've been told on here before that this look is too "pedestrian," but to me it's more harmonious to wear wool trousers with a more formal sport coat. I do a worsted 3/2 blazer, pinpoint button down, tie or bow and tan gabs fairly often. Now if you're talking a more casual tweed, than twills seem more appropriate.


I identify with your comments, mjo, personally preferring tan gabs with a navy blazer and a tie. However, this IS the Trad forum, where chinos paired with blazer/tie is fairly standard practice. Our good friend gamma68 comes to mind as someone who pulls off that look reguarly and with aplomb (see today's WAYWT for a perfect example).


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

FLCracka said:


> I identify with your comments, mjo, personally preferring tan gabs with a navy blazer and a tie. However, this IS the Trad forum, where chinos paired with blazer/tie is fairly standard practice. Our good friend gamma68 comes to mind as someone who pulls off that look reguarly and with aplomb (see today's WAYWT for a perfect example).


Not that I won't ever wear chinos with a blazer, just not to work (conservative law firm). But to social functions, church, etc, I do it quite often. Much the way I treat bow ties.

I agree gamma has the look perfected.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

I spoke with my lovely bride (3 weeks married) about this thread; she cast her eyes down and said she would love it if I wore updated clothing sometimes (most of my clothes are from my grandfather and father, lol) and also if I wouldn't wear ties so much, lol. 

So, we were at a restaurant, and she pointed out how some guys were dressed: open collar, sunglasses hanging from said open shirt, those mod-english-super-darted-everything-too-tight-and-too-short jackets/suits; the sort of you see guys in London and Mayfair strutting around in. 

She works in the hedge fund industry; so I suppose that has influenced her style sense; with the exception of a bunch of Boston/NYC groups I know, t's the hedge fund "look." She still dresses uber trad though so I'm not buying it, lol. 

Anyway, a bit of a let down, lol.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Ah, young love. You will learn. There are some questions you learn never to ask. One, do you really love me? Two, when is our anniversary? Three, do you like what I'm wearing?

Some questions are asking for trouble. If all is well, there is no reason to ask them. If all is not well, then it is probably too late to ask them anyway.

In all seriousness, you can thank your wife for her suggestions, but you should never feel obligated to follow them, unless the apparel is simply an egregious assault on all sense of decency, but in your case, I can hardly imagine that is the case.



Califax said:


> I spoke with my lovely bride (3 weeks married) about this thread; she cast her eyes down and said she would love it if I wore updated clothing sometimes (most of my clothes are from my grandfather and father, lol) and also if I wouldn't wear ties so much, lol.
> 
> So, we were at a restaurant, and she pointed out how some guys were dressed: open collar, sunglasses hanging from said open shirt, those mod-english-super-darted-everything-too-tight-and-too-short jackets/suits; the sort of you see guys in London and Mayfair strutting around in.
> 
> ...


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Califax said:


> ...She works in the hedge fund industry; so I suppose that has influenced her style sense; with the exception of a bunch of Boston/NYC groups I know, it's the hedge fund "look."


I don't usually have that response when I see hedge fund guys. Honestly, this may be the beginning of a feeling that you will have again as you get older: you're not going to be invited to all the cool parties anymore. I'm 54, and I still get that feeling.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I was _never_ invited to the cool parties.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

Duvel said:


> Ah, young love. You will learn. There are some questions you learn never to ask. One, do you really love me? Two, when is our anniversary? Three, do you like what I'm wearing?
> 
> Some questions are asking for trouble. If all is well, there is no reason to ask them. If all is not well, then it is probably too late to ask them anyway.
> 
> In all seriousness, you can thank your wife for her suggestions, but you should never feel obligated to follow them, unless the apparel is simply an egregious assault on all sense of decency, but in your case, I can hardly imagine that is the case.


Great advice; funny thing is, I knew I shouldn't have been asking it _while_ I was asking the question, for the reasons stated. For one thing, it's inviting her to see something wrong, where she might not have even otherwise thought it. Men have to lead anyway. One wonders if she just wanted to have _something_ to say to the question - she's like that actually.

I won't EVER wear those clothes; it's the high-octane macho look. Absolutely despise it.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

SlideGuitarist said:


> I don't usually have that response when I see hedge fund guys. Honestly, this may be the beginning of a feeling that you will have again as you get older: you're not going to be invited to all the cool parties anymore. I'm 54, and I still get that feeling.


Well, I'm afraid I'm in that world too; fortunately, my intimate friends all dress very traddily. We have the best parties too, lol.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

High-octane macho is a good way to put it. The look always reminds me of my first college roommate, whom we nicknamed Meatman and who always reeked of Brut.



Califax said:


> Great advice; funny thing is, I knew I shouldn't have been asking it _while_ I was asking the question, for the reasons stated. For one thing, it's inviting her to see something wrong, where she might not have even otherwise thought it. Men have to lead anyway. One wonders if she just wanted to have _something_ to say to the question - she's like that actually.
> 
> I won't EVER wear those clothes; it's the high-octane macho look. Absolutely despise it.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

godan said:


> Somehow the mix of a wool sport coat, especially with a collared shirt and tie, over cotton khakis seems out of balance to me. With tan wool trousers, the garments on the upper and lower body seem to have a better relationship to one another.


I, along with mjo_1 and FLCracka, agree with the above comments. And I will add this: although tan gabardine wool trousers are great, let's not forget what should be a workhorse of the Trad ensemble--grey flannel trousers. In the 1930's, when the elements of the Ivy League wardrobe (except in those days, it was referred to as "the natural shoulder look") came together and took a distinctive, recognizable form, grey flannel trousers, flat-front and cuffed, were de rigueur; they were as ubiquitous in the 1930's Ivy League as tan chinos are now in the "Trad What Are You Wearing" thread.

I own, and thoroughly enjoy, a fair amount of wool gabardine trousers. And like nearly everyone who participates in the Trad forum, I own, and thoroughly enjoy, a much-more-than fair quantity of chinos/khakis--which I wear with and without sport coats. But I haven't abandoned the classic grey flannel trousers.

You can see inspirational views of 3-roll-2 sport coats paired with grey flannel trousers in Billax's blog and in the photos that "Ensiferous" posts over at The Curriculum.

Keep the gabs and chinos handy. But don't forsake the flannels. Unless your wife says otherwise.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Califax said:


> Well, I'm afraid I'm in that world too; fortunately, my intimate friends all dress very traddily. We have the best parties too, lol.


So, what, you have Bloomberg on one screen and Ask Andy on the other? By the way, RogerP says to go long green shoes and short sneakers and jeans. Oh, and....lol.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Charles Dana said:


> I, along with mjo_1 and FLCracka, agree with the above comments. And I will add this: although tan gabardine wool trousers are great, let's not forget what should be a workhorse of the Trad ensemble--grey flannel trousers. In the 1930's, when the elements of the Ivy League wardrobe (except in those days, it was referred to as "the natural shoulder look") came together and took a distinctive, recognizable form, grey flannel trousers, flat-front and cuffed, were de rigueur; they were as ubiquitous in the 1930's Ivy League as tan chinos are now in the "Trad What Are You Wearing" thread.
> 
> I own, and thoroughly enjoy, a fair amount of wool gabardine trousers. And like nearly everyone who participates in the Trad forum, I own, and thoroughly enjoy, a much-more-than fair quantity of chinos/khakis--which I wear with and without sport coats. But I haven't abandoned the classic grey flannel trousers.
> 
> ...


I don't have much use for flannel anything in my neck of the woods, but I do make regular use of flat fronted and cuffed grey tropical wool trousers.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

FLCracka said:


> I don't have much use for flannel anything in my neck of the woods, but I do make regular use of flat fronted and cuffed grey tropical wool trousers.


Good show!


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Duvel said:


> I was _never_ invited to the cool parties.


I was never invited to parties, period. 

To your other post, away from questions to never ask, one key one to always answer "no" to is the "does this (article of clothing) make my butt look big?" Remember, "no," the answer is always "no," and don't hesitate, just say "no."


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

Charles Dana said:


> I, along with mjo_1 and FLCracka, agree with the above comments. And I will add this: although tan gabardine wool trousers are great, let's not forget what should be a workhorse of the Trad ensemble--grey flannel trousers. In the 1930's, when the elements of the Ivy League wardrobe (except in those days, it was referred to as "the natural shoulder look") came together and took a distinctive, recognizable form, grey flannel trousers, flat-front and cuffed, were de rigueur; they were as ubiquitous in the 1930's Ivy League as tan chinos are now in the "Trad What Are You Wearing" thread.
> 
> I own, and thoroughly enjoy, a fair amount of wool gabardine trousers. And like nearly everyone who participates in the Trad forum, I own, and thoroughly enjoy, a much-more-than fair quantity of chinos/khakis--which I wear with and without sport coats. But I haven't abandoned the classic grey flannel trousers.
> 
> ...


I agree completely. I never owned a pair of flannel trousers before last winter, when I sprung for an awesome, thick pair of medium grey flannels at a local shop. I probably paid too much, but they've been worth every penny. I liked them so much that I returned for a light but not quite pearl gray pair the next week. I can't recall if both pairs are Hertling or Samuelsohn (or one of each). In any event, I now know that a good pair of flannels is definitely worth the investment.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

universitystripe said:


> Listen, there are worse things in life than substituting a pair of nice Levis for khakis. If that is all that is at issue, you can make concessions. A nice pair of corduroy jeans could also work.


Put on a new tattersall shirt this morning, (), paired with a thrifted pair of khaki cords I've never worn yet. 
My wife's opinion.... "It's a nice shirt. Would be nice with jeans", and then she made some comment about the trousers coming halfway up my chest. Medium rise I'd call it.

Ended up going with jeans just because the cords need to be shortened an inch.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I'm a bachelor. I wear what I damn well please.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Must be nice.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Patrick06790 said:


> I'm a bachelor. I wear what I damn well please.


and you never have to listen to anybody what you should or should not wear.


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