# UK Normal Width; E or F?



## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

Loake, Grenson and Barkers call normal (medium width) F. EG, JL and C&J and others call normal width E and Tricker's doesn't even use a width designation.

Aaargh!! 

Can anyone make any sense of this for a normal width US sizing shoe wearer?

Are the Fs wider then the Es? Or are they about the same with the last differences making the greater difference?

Perry


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

My general feeling is that the E width in Aldens and AEs is equivalent to an F in a British shoe such as Church's. You could have a problem if you wear a D width in American shoes, since most British shoes come in wide widths only.


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## stylestudent (Feb 24, 2005)

An article from Styleforum on UK shoe sizes:

https://styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=1885&highlight=crockett+width+shoes+sizes

As to the Tricker's shoes, "6" is wide (equivalent to a US E) and "5" is a "D" width.

With regard to Grenson Masterpiece and C&J, I take a US 9E in Alden and an 8.5F in the British shoes. Grensons, in my experience, are often narrow.

Regards,

Steven


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

pkincy said:


> Loake, Grenson and Barkers call normal (medium width) F. EG, JL and C&J and others call normal width E and Tricker's doesn't even use a width designation.
> 
> Aaargh!!
> 
> ...


For what it is worth...I purchased a pair of Tyrwhitt Loakes in an F width...definitely wider then the E widths in my C&J and Edward Greens


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

Probably bad form to answer your own question, but from the pediwear shoe site:

E or Ex Slightly more narrow than the average. 
5 or F Average. 
Fx Slightly wider than the average. 
6 or G Wide. 
H extra wide.


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## RJATL (Mar 11, 2006)

I've had the same concerns about ordering an English shoe without being able to try it on. I comfortably wear a 9D in Alden's Straight Tip Bal Oxford. Shyam at Plal indicated that a UK 8E would probably work for me in the shoe I'm looking at -- a Crockett & Jones Connaught in Dark Brown Suede. You may want to take a look at Plal.com and send them an e-mail with any questions.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

I too am a US 9D. However I wear 8.5E C&Js. Not so much cause I need the length but the length increases with width some and the E width seems to be a bit more narrow than the USD width. So although I could go to a UK 8 in length, if I do the shoe is way to narrow.

Perry


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

I can only speak to what I have worn,

I am an Allen Edmonds last 4 8.5 E for a perfect fit
I am an Edward Green last 888 7.5 F for a perfect fit.


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## RJATL (Mar 11, 2006)

pkincy said:


> I too am a US 9D. However I wear 8.5E C&Js. Not so much cause I need the length but the length increases with width some and the E width seems to be a bit more narrow than the USD width. So although I could go to a UK 8 in length, if I do the shoe is way to narrow.
> 
> Perry


Interesting. I do happen to wear a 9.5 C in the AE Park Avenue. Namely, because 1 foot measures 9.5. But isn't a 9.5 C the same as a 9D? Anyway, I wish there was a C&J retailer here but there's not.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

*Church and Sargent*



pkincy said:


> Loake, Grenson and Barkers call normal (medium width) F. EG, JL and C&J and others call normal width E and Tricker's doesn't even use a width designation.
> 
> Aaargh!!
> 
> ...


For completeness a 'normal' Church is an F; a 'normal' Sargent is an E


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

RJATL said:


> Interesting. I do happen to wear a 9.5 C in the AE Park Avenue. Namely, because 1 foot measures 9.5. But isn't a 9.5 C the same as a 9D? Anyway, I wish there was a C&J retailer here but there's not.


I can wear a 9.5C but have worn 9D for years as they generally fit me better. My 8.5E C&Js fit me about like a US 9.5C would. OK but a bit long, but I definitely need to length to give me the volume of width I need.

When I go to London next year I will try on a C&J in the F width......if they make them. I would like to see if I can wear a 8F....in fact I may pop for a used pair on Ebay just to try them on.

Perry


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## nikwik (Oct 29, 2005)

stylestudent said:


> An article from Styleforum on UK shoe sizes:
> 
> https://styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=1885&highlight=crockett+width+shoes+sizes
> 
> ...


In the article above you can read

_For what it's worth, it is also an anomaly of shoe-fitting that most customers think the "widths" are a measure of the width of the insole across the ball of the foot; this is incorrect. *As noted above, the "width" is actually a measure of the girth (circumference) of the last; therefore, even two shoes with the same "width" measurement can have different insole widths, as the shape of the lasts may differ and one may have more of the total girth/circumference in the top part of the foot (...) _

Can vouch for that! Bought a pair of Tricker´s Henley size 9,5-5 last year which turned out to be bit too narrow (Had them later adjusted by a Swedish cobbler). Last weekend I visted the Tricker´s sale in Jermyn Street and found the most wonderful Tricker´s Norfolk in chestnut. They fitted perfectly although the size was yet again 9,5-5...


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

This is an old thread, so hopefully I can be forgiven a small sidestep.

Below is the "sizing chart" from the Gucci website, and according to the text the "E" width is the normal European size. I'm not sure how to read their statement: do they mean that the US "D" and the Euro "E" are basically the same? Or does Gucci (and possibly others) not bother selling "D" widths in Europe? Or do they just stamp Euro shoes with an "E" and stamp North American-bound shoes with a "D"?


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

zegnamtl said:


> I can only speak to what I have worn,
> 
> I am an Allen Edmonds last 4 8.5 E for a perfect fit
> I am an Edward Green last 888 7.5 F for a perfect fit.


My experiences with AE (any last but #5) and several EG lasts are identical (half size less in length and E to F in width). 
Most C&J and Church shoes I tried seem too tight in F fitting.


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