# Photos of Alden Color 8 shell cordovan over time



## Tom Rath

There has been alot of discussion lately over the variation of color 8 shell cordovan. Its a slow day up here in CT, thought id take some photos of similar shoes, and how the color has changed over time. I took 3 pair of Alden shell wingtips, each color 8. The pair on the left is 11 years old, and when I bought them they were as dark as you could imagine, almost black. The pair in the middle are BB wingtips, 7 years old, and were equally as dark when new. The pair on the right are balmoral wingtips, bought last summer at Shoemart. They were more purple than the other pairs new. Not as dark as the other pairs, but more purple. I took a photo in the direct sunlight and then one in regular light.



















You can see in the pics that the pair on the left has faded significantly over time, especially on the upper part of the vamp. The center pair have done the same, especially near the laces. The pair on the right have begun the mellowing process even though they are only a year old.

As far as maintainance all I do is brush the shoes, and apply a tiny amount of polish a few times a year. I do take a paper towel with a drip of baby shampoo on them and wipe down the shoes every 5 wearings or so.


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## lee_44106

Is that a #8 shell plain toe blucher at 4 o'clock?


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## Tom Rath

Yup, I was wearing that pair as I took the pics.


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## marlinspike

So does the cordovan polish not return it to the like new color (I'm hoping the answer is that it does not)?


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## Tom Rath

You should be putting so little on that it will have little to no effect on the color.

I use black polish on all my shells, from whiskey to color 8 (I dont own black shoes)


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## M. Charles

This is interesting. I always thought #8 turned darker over time. In your experience, how does cigar shell cordovan age? Turn darker or lighter?


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## Tom Rath

My whiskies have turned darker, cigar and color 8 have turned lighter


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## qwerty

What I am stunned by is how the 11-yr-old and 7-yr-old pairs of shells look just as new as the 1-yr-old pair. If you had told me that you bought all three pairs last week, I would never have doubted you, notwithstanding the differences in color across the 3 pairs. How often do you wear the older pairs? 1x per wk? More, less? Aldens hold up well!


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## marlinspike

One other question - is it just the photo, or are their no creases on the sides of the shoes? On all of my shoes, cordovan or otherwise, the creasing extends down to the sides.


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## lee_44106

qwerty said:


> What I am stunned by is how the 11-yr-old and 7-yr-old pairs of shells look just as new as the 1-yr-old pair. If you had told me that you bought all three pairs last week, I would never have doubted you, notwithstanding the differences in color across the 3 pairs. How often do you wear the older pairs? 1x per wk? More, less? Aldens hold up well!


Yes, I was also going to remark on the same subject.


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## Markus

*I love this kind of thing. We're obsessive and not a little bit nutty.*

First off, great thread, great concept. If I can manage it, I'll post some photos of my 20+ bb wings. (like you middle pair).

Also, since i had a couple of thrifted #8s pass through my lens last year, I'll look around and see if I can find pictures of those anywhere. interesting comparisons.

I think if my wife knew I was looking at pictures of cordo wingtips on the internet it would confirm her opinion that we are a kind of a crazy bunch around here. I like it! If we could only get a sufficient number of our Japanese fellow-obsessives interested, perhaps they might publish a monthly magazine with extended photo comparisons of all these colors of shell developing patina through time. ;>))

really, fun thread. Thanks!


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## Tom Rath

qwerty said:


> What I am stunned by is how the 11-yr-old and 7-yr-old pairs of shells look just as new as the 1-yr-old pair. If you had told me that you bought all three pairs last week, I would never have doubted you, notwithstanding the differences in color across the 3 pairs. How often do you wear the older pairs? 1x per wk? More, less? Aldens hold up well!


I wear the longwings mostly on the weekend with jeans these days. Every once in a while to work if the mood strikes me. Probably wear them 3 times a month. They are in comfortable sem-retirement given their age. They have never been resoled or otherwise touched by Alden after I bought them.

I wear the BBs all the time, probably 2 times a week. They have been to Alden to be refurbished 2 times now.

I wear the bal wingtips about once a week lately. I tend to wear them more in the summer for some reason.


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## Tom Rath

marlinspike said:


> One other question - is it just the photo, or are their no creases on the sides of the shoes? On all of my shoes, cordovan or otherwise, the creasing extends down to the sides.


I dont really see any creasing on the sides. Maybe its the way I walk, I dont know.

I think the condition of the shoes really speaks to Alden's quality. I take good care of my shoes, but shell really takes care of itself.

I will try to take some comparison pics of cigar and whiskey today if I have time.


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## PittDoc

Thanks for the pics Phil - I look forward to seeing the other shades. You have also provided a good look at the subtle style differences b/t the various Alden-made wingtips. 

Maybe I too can contribute, 10 years from now; most of my shells are less than a year old. You've provided good evidence that I didn't go wrong buying a half-dozen pair in one year. I hope Alden is still around and doing recrafting in 2018.


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## M. Charles

Phil said:


> I will try to take some comparison pics of cigar and whiskey today if I have time.


Yes, this would be great!


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## Tom Rath

First, here is another color 8 comparison. On the left a 6 year old pair of BB unlined penny loafers, never recrafted. On the right, same shoe, 2 months old:










Whiskey - on the left, a 3 year old pair of longwings. In the center, a 2 year old pair of LHS, and on the right, a 1 year old pair of NST oxfords. They have all darkened significantly over time:










More whiskey - on the left, same pair of longwings as above, and to the right, chukkas, 5 years old










Cigar - on the left, from Leathersoul, cigar wingtip boots, about 2 years old I think. Center, also from Leathersoul, Indy boots, 2.5 years old I think, and on the right, wingtip boots from Alden of Carmel, 3 months old. You can hopefully see how the older pairs are lighter in color than the ones on the right:


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## M. Charles

This is so extremely interesting! Thanks Phil! You have such a nice collection.

So, I'm not a chemist, but what is it that makes the shoes get lighter over time? Do they get lighter more quickly if you wear them more? I have a pair of BB #8 cap toe oxfords from about 2 years ago; they look the same in color to me, but I've only worn them less than 5 times.

Interesting that the cigar turns lighter too. I'm thinking of investing in a cigar plain tip blucher....


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## Tom Rath

I think they get lighter because the overdye that Alden puts on their number 8 and cigar shoes wears off over time, revealing lighter shades underneath. Why whiskey gets darker I have no idea. As I mentioned, I use black polish, but I put so little on and so infrequently, I cant imagine it has much of an effect other than to fill in the little scratches black.

I should have taken the photo of the BB loafers in direct sunlight. The older pair is so much lighter than the newer pair. Its much more obvious under direct sunlight.


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## lee_44106

My goodness, those pictures are heartstoppingly beautiful. I'm not fan of the whiskey color, but I must say your whiskey shoes sure have aged gracefully. The darker color that they have acquired makes them much more attractive than the native color.


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## gtguyzach

Thank you for the excellent pictures Phil. I especially love your boot collection.


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## Tom Rath

While my intention wasnt to show some of my shoes just for the sake of showing them, thank you for the kind words. Just wanted to show how the material ages over time, since it seems to be a topic that often comes up.


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## paper clip

Great pictures. Thanks for posting.


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## spinlps

Whew. Great expose' Phil... I had to take a breath after your last round of pics. As Markus said, this "Ode to Shell Cordovan" is a great idea for a thread. Thanks.


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## qwerty

Phil said:


> I should have taken the photo of the BB loafers in direct sunlight. The older pair is so much lighter than the newer pair. Its much more obvious under direct sunlight.


Phil, I would love to see a picture like this. The two BB loafers look identical in color to me in the picture you posted.


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## marlinspike

I figured I'd toss mine up as the control since they're pretty much brand new (worn around the house/block for break in, and then 2 real wearings)


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## AlanC

I'll try to take an outdoor pic of my MacNeils tomorrow. They've been recrafted, but the shell wasn't refinished. They have some nice patina.


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## Doctor Damage

More excellent shoe porn!

I wonder why the flat strap on the LHS often appears a different shade? I've noticed this in BB catalogues too.

DocD


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## JayJay

marlinspike said:


> I figured I'd toss mine up as the control since they're pretty much brand new (worn around the house/block for break in, and then 2 real wearings)


One of the reasons I love shell is because they look just as good old as they look new. It's great to see both the new and the old.


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## cdcro

this almost made my credit card jump out of my wallet


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## eagle2250

Phil: Weren't you one of the fortunate few who picked up a pair of those alpine grain shell boots fron Alden of Carmel? If so, does the color of the grained shell seem to age in a manner similiar to the smooth shell cord footgear?


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## Tom Rath

Yes, I got them in December I believe. They were nearly black when new and are pretty much the same color now. I anticipate they will age in a similar manner to my other color 8 shoes, but I suppose only time will tell. Because of the grain you cant see the color irregularities and shading you generally see on color 8. They have a more uniform finish in that regard. Im undecided as to whether I see this as a good or a bad thing. I love the boots, and oddly enough, am wearing them today:


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## JayJay

Phil said:


> Yes, I got them in December I believe. They were nearly black when new and are pretty much the same color now. I anticipate they will age in a similar manner to my other color 8 shoes, but I suppose only time will tell. Because of the grain you cant see the color irregularities and shading you generally see on color 8. They have a more uniform finish in that regard. Im undecided as to whether I see this as a good or a bad thing. I love the boots, and oddly enough, am wearing them today:


I wore mine today, too. I find that they have gotten a tad lighter in the creases since purchasing them in December. I have not applied any wax to them, yet. They're great boots and have been perfect for the dreadful winter weather.


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## srivats

Just thought I'd bump this thread up so that we can see the amazing pics of the aging of alden shells. This thread really need to be pinned or be added to the hall of fame.


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## amlai

LeatherSoul #8 Shell Indy boot:


LeatherSoul Cigar Shell Indy boot on Left, #8 on Right:


LeatherSoul Cigar Shell Indy boot on Left, #8 on Right:


The #8's are currently at Alden for recrafting. I've asked that they try not to change the color.


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## srivats

amlai, that is amazing patina on the shells. Looks fantastic ... please post pics after restoration!


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## Tom Rath

here is a comparison of identical models of color 8. The older pair is about 5 years old, the new ones are a special order pair that I picked up yesterday:


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## bigCat

I think that Alden adds some dye to #8 during the finishing process.

I think that re-crafting will reverse the fading process (if one so desires). There is nothing wrong with faded #8 color.


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## Got Shell?

*My No. 8's*


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## srivats

Tom, lovely boots. It is fantastic to see #8 turning to cigar-like brown. I hope my #8 aldens will be like these someday.

amlai, did you expose your #8 shoes to sunlight much? I am simply amazed as to how much charecter your indy boots show. Those shoes must be well loved


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## amlai

The #8's were exposed to a lot of sunlight for about a month. I forget where this was, but people were wondering what caused the change in the coloring of shell cordovan over time, so I decided to do and experiment and see how much sun exposure caused the change... and as you can see, it is pretty significant. And yes... those shoes are very well loved...


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## AlanC

Gorgeous boots, Tom Rath. I 'need' a pair of those one of these days.


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## DonV

Does black cordovan change significantly over time?


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## well-kept

DonV said:


> Does black cordovan change significantly over time?


Black cordovan has grey and green undertones which, if worn heavily and not polished with black, will come out and then burnish toward brown at points of greatest friction. It takes a long time, though.


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## amlai

I got my boots back from Alden recrafting. I can't decide whether or not to be happy or upset about it. I asked them not to adjust the color. This was the before:


And this is the after:


They did a magnificent job recrafting them, but I did ask them not to change the color. They clearly re-dyed the shell. They're pretty close to the color that they were when I got them. I guess I can always try to leave the boots out in the sun again and try to get them back to where they were.

Oh, and another sad part about sending them back for recrafting is that they lost their nice LeatherSoul heel pad.


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## mcarthur

^Indy boots look good to me. Enjoy wearing


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## rwjones

Hah, I love this thread! It's like a corny science experiment, but so useful.

Could you imagine what the _normal_ people would think if they knew we were doing this?! The entire concept is delightfully neurotic.


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## Reds & Tops

Agreed RW, this is a great thread. Keeps me entertained during the slow points at work. 

It's also great to see how things develop. Personally, I love to see how pristine Mac keeps his shells. Any one of his postings could be a near brand new shoe. Truly impressive.


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## Markus

*I don't think they are re-dyed. They're just polished.*



amlai said:


> I got my boots back from Alden recrafting. I can't decide whether or not to be happy or upset about it. I asked them not to adjust the color. This was the before:
> 
> And this is the after:
> 
> They did a magnificent job recrafting them, but I did ask them not to change the color. They clearly re-dyed the shell. They're pretty close to the color that they were when I got them. I guess I can always try to leave the boots out in the sun again and try to get them back to where they were.
> 
> Oh, and another sad part about sending them back for recrafting is that they lost their nice LeatherSoul heel pad.


And I expect it will wear off sooner rather than later, provided that you don't polish them again soon.

Just my thought.

Markus


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## mcarthur

Reds & Tops said:


> Agreed RW, this is a great thread. Keeps me entertained during the slow points at work.
> 
> It's also great to see how things develop. Personally, I love to see how pristine Mac keeps his shells. Any one of his postings could be a near brand new shoe. Truly impressive.


Thank you!
Just follow the mac procedure


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## Anon 18th Cent.

What is the mac procedure? I searched, but you have a lot of posts!


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## cdcro

Edwin Ek said:


> What is the mac procedure? I searched, but you have a lot of posts!


1) Wipe down w/ barely damp towel
2) brush w/ horsehair 5 min
3) buff w/ professional cloth for 5 min

works every time


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