# Trad Pens: Parker or Sheaffer or ???



## coase (Apr 29, 2010)

Since I found the side comments on fountain pens in the thrift thread fascinating I thought I would start a new thread here. In the past I collected fountain pens but haven't had much time for it recently. 

I tended to favor the Sheaffer Balance lever fillers but also a few Triumphs with wonderful fine to extra fine nibs. But an old scrapyard Parker 51 is also one of my best writers.

So have a go at it gents. Give us your views on this.


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

Parker man, here. I always carry a bound notebook (over 25 years archived on my bookshelf). But, I prefer pencils for math, and do almost all of my official and personal work on the computer. Fountain pens dry out on me, so I use Pilot G2 gel for basic writing needs. I keep a crystal ink well on my desk for an occasional fountain pen fix. I use them as dip pens to avoid the drying.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Sadly, I learned from Joel at Inkpen that some of the Parker P51's are reaching the end of their lives because the plastic around the tip is becoming brittle and cracking. My many fountain pens include the usual suspects. I'm particularly fond of an MB whose nib I ground to a mild italic or stub and two Rotrings with broad gold nibs. A WWII Morrison green military pen now has entirely new internals, thanks to Inkpen. My several 40's-era Duofolds and Mabies seem to go on forever. 

There are many good modern pens, which I would absolutely recommend to a newcomer instead of anything vintage. They include such brands as Pilot, Lamy, modern Conklin and, at the higher end, MB, etc. 

My ballpoints include vintage Duofolds and modern Pelikans, Cartiers and Dunhills. The new gel refills are not yet perfect, but they are much better than old-style ballpoints. I know nothing about roller ball pens, but others probably do. 

For those who care, there is always much more on the Fountain Pen Network site.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

I'm partial to Parker 51s and I have yet to see the lucite in the hood become brittle. Now as for modern fountain pens I'm partial to Pelikan, Aurora, Pilot/Namiki, Platinum and Sailor.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

The Parker 51 is indeed iconic, as is the Jotter. The Cross Century, particularly an old American made one, is equally timeless. I'm partial to cheap plastic fountain pens myself, and could bore anyone with the relative merits of my own.
Is a Pelikan Souveran too flashy?


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Uncle Bill said:


> I'm partial to Parker 51s and I have yet to see the lucite in the hood become brittle. Now as for modern fountain pens I'm partial to Pelikan, Aurora, Pilot/Namiki, Platinum and Sailor.


The cracked 51 I saw a couple of months ago was the first one, but it cannot be a good sign. Certainly, every modern pen on your list is a quality instrument, and any would be a good first pen for a newcomer. Fountain pens are subjective in terms of the feel of the nib on paper and the feel of the pen in hand. Good modern pens offer great variety in both aspects.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Tempest said:


> The Parker 51 is indeed iconic, as is the Jotter. The Cross Century, particularly an old American made one, is equally timeless. I'm partial to cheap plastic fountain pens myself, and could bore anyone with the relative merits of my own.
> Is a Pelikan Souveran too flashy?


Flashy is in the eye of the beholder. The Pelikan Souveran M800 is a large piston filler. If you are comfortable with the size, technology and price, why not have one?


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

The Souveran strikes me as being Rolls-Royce in that it is SO recognizably old-school classic and expensive quality that it is bound to draw too much attention and even envious derision from the casual bystander. This is rather antithetical to the understatedness of Trad, no?


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## coase (Apr 29, 2010)

One thing not mentioned is that the old Sheaffer lever fillers were quite easy to repair. If you find one whose ink sac is rotted but whose nib writes to perfection, it's a relatively simple matter to put in a new sac. Despite claims by enthusiasts that many other operations are equally as simple, this clumsy old fool never managed to successfully repair any other kind of pen. I have a few Sheaffer Balance pens that feel very good in the hand and, fresh from the junkpile wrote smooth, clean, and slightly wet lines and needed only a little work to become fully useable again.


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## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

Elegant. Simple. Steel.

And it won't leak.

The Pilot MYU is my favorite of all time.

https://www.stutler.cc/pens/murex/


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

I think a pen is something that really benefits from buying in a shop, to feel how the weight, ergonomics are in your own hand [if you're looking for something that you really like writing with]. I am not a pen freak, but I have a couple. There is a shop around here called Bertram's Inkwell, near DC. They used to have a nice shop in Baltimore but it closed a few years back.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I ordered some disposable fountain pens with which to practice. Now, I have to upgrade my stationery. I have always favored the uniformity of lined paper. It is just impossible to make it look formal enough for a letter. Everything comes out looking like a school composition. Does anyone here practice penmanship?


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Tempest said:


> The Souveran strikes me as being Rolls-Royce in that it is SO recognizably old-school classic and expensive quality that it is bound to draw too much attention and even envious derision from the casual bystander. This is rather antithetical to the understatedness of Trad, no?


Not at all. I am a rather committed FP aficionado, with a collection that numbers over a thousand, and I can assure you that virtually nobody (other than a few architects who will notice a Pelikan) notices any particular FP brand other than MB. This is rather unfortunate, given the many outstanding modern brands available such as Lamy; just a signal of the power of marketing, which has ingrained the perception of "precious resin" as something that is somehow more desirable than the mundane black plastic from which most MB pens are made.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

^That is correct. People will notice fountain pen not the brand.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

I'm a fan of Parker 51s, but don't mind the Shaeffer Balance. I've got a Pelikan that I don't often use, and a Waterman Charleston which writes very nicely. In fact, I'm tempted to say that my best writers are Watermans and a Parker 51 SE.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

drlivingston said:


> I ordered some disposable fountain pens with which to practice. Now, I have to upgrade my stationery. I have always favored the uniformity of lined paper. It is just impossible to make it look formal enough for a letter. Everything comes out looking like a school composition. Does anyone here practice penmanship?


Political correctness has now caused penmanship to become handwriting, which I mention in distaste, but so that you will know where to search on Amazon, etc. I practice a few calligraphic hands and write a version of Operina Chancery Cursive. There are numerous editions of Arrighi's 1522 manual, none of which I recommend for anyone who has not practiced basic handwriting with a modern pen. I mentioned a couple of good modern manuals in an earlier post. There is usually something by Tom Gourdie on Amazon. Others could probably comment more expertly on paper.


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## coase (Apr 29, 2010)

For paper, I have always been partial to Rhodia or Clairefontaine paper. Clairefontaine now owns Rhodia but they still sell separate lines. I always used to pick up a bloc or two of writing paper from Rhodia when visiting Europe as fountain pens are more widely used there. I also liked to regularly see what the latest "cheapie" school pens were like and pick up new ones to try.


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## Ole Hickory (Jan 12, 2008)

Lamy Safari pens-

https://www.jetpens.com/Lamy-Safari...ody/pd/10837?gclid=CI7X3tGTkrsCFe5j7AodIhAAEg


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Any debate of Sheaffer/Parker is just like Ford/Chevy or Coke/Pepsi. They are at the same level. Maybe you have a preference, maybe not. I have a great appreciation for many Parker pens. Collectors and users of the Parker 51 love it for reasons of design and consistent operation. I never quite cared for the styling of it. That tiny, hooded nib does not hold the same allure for me as a big 14KT conventional nib or a conical Sheaffer Triumph nib (you will see examples of both in this post, so don't worry if you don't know what they are).

My preference is for Sheaffer pens, especially the lever fillers. These pens are robust in design. How robust? I have one which is about 90 years old and three which are about 80, all write perfectly. A rubber sac will petrify eventually, but any one of you can replace the sac in a Sheaffer lever filler in less than 5 minutes. Then you will be good for another 30 years or so. If you want to say "Parker is better", I will say that my taste in pens was shaped to some extent by the the opinions and writings of the late Frank Dubiel. Frank was to the the vintage pen hobby as Andy or Flusser are to men's clothing. Just out of curiosity are any of you familiar with his work or have any of you met him?

Anyway, just to keep this all together I will repost a couple of pics which were in the other thread.

I used to collect and repair fountain pens, at one time owning over 1000 of them. Most people who have a great deal of experience with fountain pens agree that vintage pens are superior to modern, in virtually every aspect of the instrument. I gravitated toward Sheaffer pens because of their dependability and robust design. How many 90 year old items with moving parts work as well as they did when new and still set the standard for utility?

All of the pens which I have photographed for this post are writers right now with the possible exception of the Sheaffer plunger fillers with the double desk set. I have not used them recently so I am not sure.

Sharpie to provide scale
Sheaffer's Oversize Flat top lever filler circa 1920's.
Sheaffer Imperial (Inlaid Nib), cartridge filler circa 1960's.
Sheaffer's Oversize Balance lever filler circa 1930's.

The nibs are 14kt gold.


Here are a few more pens which I kept.
Sheaffer Balance Pearl & Black Lever Filler (in box) circa 1930's
Sheaffer Green Triumph Nib Snorkel circa 1950's (Snorkel filler is out in the close up photo)
Sheaffer Black Triumph Nib Touchdown Filler circa 1950's (maybe 40's)


At one time I owned 50+ desk sets. Here are a few which I kept. I kept the two Sheaffer sets because of the inscriptions. The Parker 21 has a nice looking base.

Huge black onyx double set with Sheaffer Lifetime Triumph nib plunger fillers. Surprisingly, these two plunger fillers actually worked about 15 years ago when I last tried them. The inscription is from a textile mill in the southern US, probably GA or AL. 


Foreground is a Sheaffer set. I like the use of two different stones to make the "book" and I like the inscription on the pen, "MAJOR DOUGLAS, FROM THE GANG, 4-28-31". The background is a Parker 21 set with a nice base. The Parker 21 was a sort of poor man's Parker 51 with a steel nib. They were prone to cracking.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Steve Smith said:


> I will say that my taste in pens was shaped to some extent by the the opinions and writings of the late Frank Dubiel. Frank was to the the vintage pen hobby as Andy or Flusser are to men's clothing. Just out of curiosity are any of you familiar with his work or have any of you met him?


I miss Cranky Franky dearly. He was a fountain (pun intended) of knowledge, a legend in this hobby, and an absolute hoot at pen shows. The pen world has never quite been the same since his untimely passing, and his loss is front and center each year at this time. Glad to see his name mentioned on a non-pen site - thank you!


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Tempest said:


> The Souveran strikes me as being Rolls-Royce in that it is SO recognizably old-school classic and expensive quality that it is bound to draw too much attention and even envious derision from the casual bystander. This is rather antithetical to the understatedness of Trad, no?


Funny I heard Pelikan Souveran series pens being referred to as the BMW of pens, particularly the vintage ones while Mont Blanc was Mercedes.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Uncle Bill said:


> Funny I heard Pelikan Souveran series pens being referred to as the BMW of pens, particularly the vintage ones while Mont Blanc was Mercedes.


Actually both comparisons are ridiculous given the fact that many knowledgeable FP users/collectors would never consider carrying a modern Mont Blanc, especially one of the ubiquitous models made of cheap black plastic.


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

smmrfld said:


> Actually both comparisons are ridiculous given the fact that many knowledgeable FP users/collectors would never consider carrying a modern Mont Blanc, especially one of the ubiquitous models made of cheap black plastic.


Color me crazy.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

Sometime in someone's life their Mont Blanc left them for another foreign made pen.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

Parker. I love my Sonnet Cisele.

https://www.parkerpen.com/en-US/sho...acute-silver-fountain-pen---fine-18k-gold-nib


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

I grew up in Janesville, Wisconsin, home to Parker Pens. I knew many people who worked for the company. I graduated from Parker High School. I received sets of pens for important occasions in my life. I should learn more about the company and collect more of their pens.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

In my salad days I had the good fortune to use, at various times, Waterman, Waterford, Pelikan and DuPont fountain pens, in addition to the usual Sheaffers and Parkers. Also Mont Blanc, which was underwhelming in the extreme. I also used both Staedtler and Rotring drafting pens, quite a different experience.

No question but that the DuPont was the most ridiculously luxurious pen I've ever used. A Waterman was the best I actually owned.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

VaBeach said:


> Sometime in someone's life their Mont Blanc left them for another foreign made pen.


Mont Blanc is one of those brands which gets much more respect outside the hardcore aficionado community than within. Non-vintage Mont Blanc is not at all popular in the pen community.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Steve Smith said:


> Mont Blanc is one of those brands which gets much more respect outside the hardcore aficionado community than within. Non-vintage Mont Blanc is not at all popular in the pen community.


True, indeed, that some part of the "pen community" dislikes MB's. That community includes experts, neophytes and all between. One may wonder why these people, at various levels of experience and expertise, dislike MB's. Perhaps some of them only know they should because others do. In a few decades around pens, I have seen no dramatic MB quality issues. All of mine and those I have handled for others work well. They are more expensive than they should be, but so are many other high-end items. Moreover, the "pen community" amounts to a tiny fraction of the fountain pen using community, which itself amounts to a tiny fraction of those who use writing instruments. MB seems well able to bear the opprobrium. Perhaps, to borrow a famous line, "laughing all the way to the bank."


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

In my case I just didn't find the aesthetic of using the Mont Blanc to be all that enjoyable. The pens are very fat, and for those who like fat pens I'm sure they're fine. I also just didn't like the general shape, but these things are very personal. I have no reason to question the quality of their products.

The primary enjoyment of using a fountain pen was always, for me, the smoothness of laying out a line of black (or blue) on paper, which smoothness could never be duplicated by a ballpoint. Now, though, with the advent of gel pens, I find the inconvenience and mess associated with fountain pen use to not be worth it. But for those to whom ownership of the product of a craftsman's art is important, a fine fountain pen remains a joy.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I'm surprised that not one mention has yet been made of Waterman pens. My favorites are their Gentleman II series fountain pens, equipped with fine nibs; one in sterling and one in navy lacquer. And then there is the vintage Parker that was a gift from my mother when I completed high school and was about to enter college.


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## Chevo (Jan 3, 2013)

I am a big fan of Pelikan fountain pens. Their superior quality can rival any others on the market, in my opinion.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

MaxBuck said:


> In my case I just didn't find the aesthetic of using the Mont Blanc to be all that enjoyable. The pens are very fat, and for those who like fat pens I'm sure they're fine. I also just didn't like the general shape, but these things are very personal. I have no reason to question the quality of their products.
> 
> The primary enjoyment of using a fountain pen was always, for me, the smoothness of laying out a line of black (or blue) on paper, which smoothness could never be duplicated by a ballpoint. Now, though, with the advent of gel pens, I find the inconvenience and mess associated with fountain pen use to not be worth it. But for those to whom ownership of the product of a craftsman's art is important, a fine fountain pen remains a joy.


You are right about the fat size, which also applies to the larger Pelikans and many other modern and vintage pens. An injury requires that I hold a pen between the index and middle fingers, and big pens work best. Laying down the line of ink became a greater (and ego-enhancing) pleasure when I had ground enough nibs to try a stub on my MB and get it right. Gel refills for ballpoints have indeed improved their tactile personality. I have not tried retractable fountain pens because gel ballpoints travel so well.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

Steve Smith said:


> Mont Blanc is one of those brands which gets much more respect outside the hardcore aficionado community than within. Non-vintage Mont Blanc is not at all popular in the pen community.


Agreed. Most of my MBs are 30s, 40s and 50s with a 68 and a 79 mixed in.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

With over 1200 to choose from, both vintage and modern, I find myself carrying a Namiki VP Raden most often. Travels well, B nib is flawless, and the finish is gorgeous.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

smmrfld said:


> With over 1200 to choose from, both vintage and modern, I find myself carrying a Namiki VP Raden most often. Travels well, B nib is flawless, and the finish is gorgeous.


Pics or it didn't happen.

Seriously, show us a few shots of your favorites or most interesting.

Someone mentioned Pelikan in the thread. I managed to become a dealer (online only) about 15 years ago. That ended when the brick & mortar sellers complained about my advertised prices being too low. Dealing in Pelikans wasn't profitable enough for me to want to push the issue. Anyway, I used a green Pelikan M1000 for a short time and then sold it. It was an entirely competent pen but it just didn't speak to me the way my vintage pens did. The only new pen which I miss is a NOS Pilot Vanishing Point. That was a neat pen, kind of a no muss no fuss fountain pen which carried and operated like a ballpoint. The mechanism which hid the nib when not in use was a beautiful piece of engineering.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Steve Smith said:


> Pics or it didn't happen.
> 
> Seriously, show us a few shots of your favorites or most interesting.


Not a lot of time to post pics, but my mint stickered cardinal Waterman 58 definitely qualifies as a favorite.


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## rowanlane (Nov 12, 2013)

I'm surprised there isn't much mention of Cross pens since they are so American, but they do tend to run rather thin. I myself happened across an old Osmia for cheap because of a hairline crack in it, and it works just fine as a student pen.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

rowanlane said:


> I'm surprised there isn't much mention of Cross pens since they are so American, but they do tend to run rather thin.


I cited them, as they do get a mention in the original Preppy Handbook. And I only mentioned the Century because they are a lot like Allen Edmonds where the eternal classics stay the same while they try out various outre ideas in attempts to entice new customers.


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## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

To Steve Smith's question, I remember Frank Dubiel well. Even went to his place in Fall River before the first pen shows. He used to talk about seeing JFK using his black Sheaffer snorkel as a senator in Mass. Sheaffer's are extremely underrated by collectors. What makes fountain pens particularly trad for me is that Americans invented the modern fountain pen back in the 1880's and vintage American pens of the golden age (20's to 40's), like classic American clothes, were admired around the world, often been imitated but rarely equalled.


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## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

An image, huh? Here's the Pilot Myu I mentioned earlier. I own the plain metal one on the left, and it's a thing of beauty.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

^Nice Pilot. It reminds me of the Parker T-1. I found a T-1 fountain pen and ballpoint set in an antique shop in Morehead City, NC. I bought it for the full asking price of $15.


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## rowanlane (Nov 12, 2013)

Tempest said:


> I cited them, as they do get a mention in the original Preppy Handbook. And I only mentioned the Century because they are a lot like Allen Edmonds where the eternal classics stay the same while they try out various outre ideas in attempts to entice new customers.


I had noticed your comment, surprised I didn't see Cross more was what I meant. Although I thought they had discontinued the Century and now only made the Century II? A slightly different design- bit thicker and the cap has a lip? I've also heard they've gone down hill since most of the production moved overseas.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

I realize this might be similar to the "what's a nice dress shoe for $100" question...but is it possible to get a nice pen for $20 to $40? It doesn't have to be a fountain pen. I used to use one a long time ago, it was nice, but it's not a necessity to me.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

frosejr said:


> I realize this might be similar to the "what's a nice dress shoe for $100" question...but is it possible to get a nice pen for $20 to $40? It doesn't have to be a fountain pen. I used to use one a long time ago, it was nice, but it's not a necessity to me.


Yes...check out the Lamy Safari line. Great quality that's built to last.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

frosejr said:


> I realize this might be similar to the "what's a nice dress shoe for $100" question...but is it possible to get a nice pen for $20 to $40? It doesn't have to be a fountain pen. I used to use one a long time ago, it was nice, but it's not a necessity to me.


There are many options. In vintage, take a look at the Sheaffer Imperial. They were made in the 1960's, inlaid 14kt nib, many are cartridge fillers which is not a bad way to start with fountain pens. You can still buy those cartridges at an office supply store. You should be able to find a used one for less than $40 and there are NOS Imperials on ebay for about $50.

Used fountain pens were often put in a drawer, full of ink, and left for decades. Not a problem. Put the nib end into a glass with a few inches of water, flush water in and out of the sac if the filling system still works (not relevant in a cartridge pen), allow to soak overnight. Many old pens will be brought back to life by doing only these steps.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Steve Smith said:


> There are many options. In vintage, take a look at the Sheaffer Imperial. They were made in the 1960's, inlaid 14kt nib, *many are cartridge fillers which is not a bad way to start with fountain pens. You can still buy those cartridges at an office supply store.* You should be able to find a used one for less than $40 and there are NOS Imperials on ebay for about $50.
> 
> Used fountain pens were often put in a drawer, full of ink, and left for decades. Not a problem. Put the nib end into a glass with a few inches of water, flush water in and out of the sac if the filling system still works (not relevant in a cartridge pen), allow to soak overnight. Many old pens will be brought back to life by doing only these steps.


True. If the Sheaffers take the standard cartridge converters that are widely available, the issue is even more simplified. There are tricks to refill cartridges, but none have ever worked for me.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

godan said:


> True. If the Sheaffers take the standard cartridge converters that are widely available, the issue is even more simplified. There are tricks to refill cartridges, but none have ever worked for me.


Sheaffer generally uses proprietary cartridges, but using bottle ink in old cartridges is a snap with a syringe worth a couple bucks.


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

coase said:


> One thing not mentioned is that the old Sheaffer lever fillers were quite easy to repair. If you find one whose ink sac is rotted but whose nib writes to perfection, it's a relatively simple matter to put in a new sac. Despite claims by enthusiasts that many other operations are equally as simple, this clumsy old fool never managed to successfully repair any other kind of pen. I have a few Sheaffer Balance pens that feel very good in the hand and, fresh from the junkpile wrote smooth, clean, and slightly wet lines and needed only a little work to become fully useable again.


EXACTLY !

I have dabbled in Parker's (and others), but I always come back to Shaeffer. I probably have about 20 vintage pens in various states of repair.

My daily pen is a Pearl and Black Sheaffer Oversize Balance c-late '30's. I rescued this pen from a flea market, cleaned it, installed a new sac and have been using it for several years. It holds enough ink to fill 8-10 legal sized pages with dense content.

I have other Shaeffer pens that I rotate in an out so to speak. In fact, I have an oversized Jade Flat Top in need of a new sac before I can begin to use it.

Finding ink can be a bit of a problem. I have found the best balance of price and quality to be Waterman- Encre. I keep a bottle of it in my desk drawer so I can refill as needed.

I realized a long time ago that it is more comfortable to write with a larger barrell fountain pen than a modern ball point or fine liner. The larger barrel is more comfortable to hold for long periods and the flow from a carefully honed FP nib requires less effort to comit ink to paper.

Mont Blanc pens remind me of Rolex watches. Perfectly good, but overvalued by the masses because of shrewd marketing and ostentatious design.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

rl1856 said:


> Mont Blanc pens remind me of Rolex watches. Perfectly good, but overvalued by the masses because of shrewd marketing and ostentatious design.


lol, I almost made the same comparison a few days ago but I decided not to poke that hornets' nest.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Steve Smith said:


> lol, I almost made the same comparison a few days ago but I decided not to poke that hornets' nest.


This may not qualify as a hornet's nest, but I own several of both items and value them for their quality, reliability and subdued appearance. When I read or hear comments like the one to which your post refers, I always wonder if they emerge from direct experience of ownership and use, or whether they are repetitions of the opinions of others.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

My father was a member of the occupation forces in Germany post-WWII and after he had served in the pacific theater for 5 years before. My mother was given a pre war Mont Blanc FP and used it every day. As a child, I was fascinated with it and had my turns of spilling ink. I always remembered the ease at which I was able to write and the simple elegance of the pen. My mother passed away a few years ago and I don't know what happened to the pen. I began a search for the same model of pen a few months ago, found it and bought it. The memories came back immediately and I have been fortunate to collect a few more. I use my 149 every day and have a couple more (early 1950s) in my bag at all times.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

godan said:


> This may not qualify as a hornet's nest, but I own several of both items and value them for their quality, reliability and subdued appearance. When I read or hear comments like the one to which your post refers, I always wonder if they emerge from direct experience of ownership and use, or whether they are repetitions of the opinions of others.


I think that you are correct in that there is sometimes an element of bandwagon-jumping to the MB dislike. People like to laugh at the "precious resin" advertising that MB did, but many pens, modern and vintage, are made of plastic and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

Steve Smith said:


> I think that you are correct in that there is sometimes an element of bandwagon-jumping to the MB dislike. People like to laugh at the "precious resin" advertising that MB did, but many pens, modern and vintage, are made of plastic and there is certainly nothing wrong with that.


There are quite a few bandwagons out there that may or may not suit the individual at any particular station of life. Ever hear those at the office that have to spend half of the day discussing the previous evenings so called sitcom? When we pick our wagons, do we need to be accepted by the crowd, or do we live in quiet satisfaction admiring our acquisitions?


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

VaBeach said:


> My father was a member of the occupation forces in Germany post-WWII and after he had served in the pacific theater for 5 years before. My mother was given a pre war Mont Blanc FP and used it every day. As a child, I was fascinated with it and had my turns of spilling ink. I always remembered the ease at which I was able to write and the simple elegance of the pen. My mother passed away a few years ago and I don't know what happened to the pen. I began a search for the same model of pen a few months ago, found it and bought it. The memories came back immediately and I have been fortunate to collect a few more. I use my 149 every day and have a couple more (early 1950s) in my bag at all times.


That is an outstanding post. I own a few MB's, vintage and modern. My subjective impression is that quality has been maintained over the decades. That is said to be true of Pelikan, as well.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks. I am exploring other _vintage_ FPs. They will be handed down to my children and grandchildren. Imagine the look on the freshman's (grandchildren now) face when he/she opens their off to college presents - 1 gag gift, 1 cartridge FP and 1 PIF. That is going to be awesome.


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## Takai (Jun 2, 2013)

What is the general opinion on Waterman as a first fountain pen?


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

I have read quite a bit of great reviews and is on my radar for acquisition. For a first one, I couldn't say but from what I have read it could be a good possibility.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Takai said:


> What is the general opinion on Waterman as a first fountain pen?


It is a good enough pen if it fits the hand of the user. As you may have picked up from reading these posts, one of the few points on which there is general agreement is that hand fit is important for fountain pens. That's is why buying over the counter is better than over the net until you know from experience what your hand likes.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

When people say 'first' fountain pen, does this mean their first 'quality' one, first owned, or first use at all? For the latter two, head to Staples or any stationery store and grab a cheap disposable by Bic or a Pilot Varsity or something that costs a couple bucks. Like with clothing style, you may find your writing style preferences evolving as you go. I started wanting something that laid down a fine dry line similar to a ball pen. I now have little interest in pens that don't have a flexible or italic nib.
I've heard good things about the discontinued Waterman Phileas, a good 'entry' pen available on eBay for under $30.


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## Takai (Jun 2, 2013)

For me, I use to do a lot of caligraphy with dip pens, but this will be my first true fountain pen, and since the slow season at work is coming up I figured I could pick up a FP and practice my penmanship.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Takai said:


> For me, I use to do a lot of caligraphy with dip pens, but this will be my first true fountain pen, and since the slow season at work is coming up I figured I could pick up a FP and practice my penmanship.


There are any number of decent modern FP's with cartridge converters and monoline nibs. If you want a stub or italic nib, try lines of Pelikan, Lamy and (I think) Aurora. Also, not much loved except by practical people, is the Levenger True Writer, that is available with an italic nib.


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## coase (Apr 29, 2010)

I also haven't seen anyone mention Esterbrook pens. They're widely available old lever fillers with interchangeable nibs and I have half a dozen different variants with nibs ranging from xf, fine, and medium to a nice stub.


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## Kreiger (Nov 6, 2011)

A black Esterbrook "J" seems very trad, in a deco sort of way.


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## granularus (Apr 1, 2012)

Haven't seen a mention of the Parker Duofold's yet - the centennial models are great. That being said for a first pen or to leave around the office, the Waterman Phileas (sold in Europe as the Kultur) or the Parker 45 write well - both are discontinued but NOS examples are always available at Amazon and on e-Bay.


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

A FP is a personal item. There are so many varieties available that one can get a custom fit. Thick or thin barrel, cartridge or chamber fill, nib design and profile etc etc. If possible, try a few. See how they feel in the hand, and how they write. Does the ink flow readily or does ink flow require a slight effort ? The modern Sheaffer and Parker classic reproduction pens posess excellent quality at a modest price.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

The three pens I primarily use are the Parker Sonnet fp, Parker jotter ballpoint, and the Cross Century ballpoint. Pretty mundane, but they look nice, write well, and are sturdy (especially the jotter). I used to have a Cross Century fp, but it was a bit too slim for my tastes.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

Takai said:


> What is the general opinion on Waterman as a first fountain pen?


I sold a lot of fountain pens about a decade ago. I found that the Waterman was thoroughly consistent--very predictable. As others have said, finding one that fits your hand is important, though if it is your first pen you'll have fewer preconceptions. My most often used FPs are a Waterman Charleston and a Waterman Phileas. Nothing fancy about them: they just write well, better than e.g. my Pelikan's. Plus as far as I know, they are not counterfeited as much as other brands.

So if I were to recommend a new pen, it would be a Waterman from either a local shop (where you're paying for the expertise and service) or a reputable Ebay seller. Better than that might be to find a knowledgable friend to help you buy a vintage pen. A decade ago you could get vintage pens that had something special about them for a good price--like a vintage J Press jacket--and they are usually easy to refurbish if necessary: I think that prices have continued to climb, so I don't know if that is still true.

A while back, you could get Hero 329 pens for virtually nothing--ie less than $4 on Ebay or ISellPens.com. If I remember correctly, they were made in a Chinese Parker factory that was taken over when Mao came to power. They are a slightly undersized Parker 51 copy that writes a fine line. You can also get a Hero 616 (they are small) for about the same price. I've recently heard you should buy from a reputable source because these $4 are being counterfeited--that's funny. Don't know if that fits your sensibilities, but I got a 329 for a laugh 10 years ago and it is a pretty decent pen.


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## rowanlane (Nov 12, 2013)

Opinions on ink color? I have a tendency towards purple, but also use greens and blues. Sometimes fancier stuff. I know a guy who always uses browns, says it sets him apart in business deals, but no one could call him out for being too unprofessional since it's such a plain color.

Any other opinions on ink color/brand?


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## Kreiger (Nov 6, 2011)

Exclusively J. Herbin Eclat de Saphir for me. A stunning, vivid blue, but in no way unprofessional. The best smelling ink, too, if that matters.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

MB black for the MB's; Parker Whatever from the big box for all the others.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I would like to claim the preferred ink colors for my fountain pens are, like with my socks, limited to blue or black, but alas, the only ink color I can recall using is black. Presently bottles of Pelican and Schaffer black ink are in use. Someday I will have to get crazy and give brilliant blue a try!


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

My standby is Parker Quink Washable Blue. It is a washed-out bland color that benefits from picking up leftover residual inks. For vibrancy, Private Reserve DC Supershow Blue. For real personalization, mixing is the way to go. I'm fond of using blue with a smidge of red and even less black (Sheaffer Skrip and Aurora, respectively) for a subtle purple black. Also, a bit of black in greens to produce a blackish green.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

My go to is MB Blue/Black and Ruby Red.


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## Takai (Jun 2, 2013)

So I ran across this ad on craigslist, and I thought I'd get your opinion on if it's a good deal or not for a first pen.


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## Vincent3 (Dec 15, 2013)

godan said:


> There are many good modern pens, which I would absolutely recommend to a newcomer instead of anything vintage. They include such brands as Pilot, Lamy, modern Conklin and, at the higher end, MB, etc.


I agree. I experimented with a few vintage fountain pens and saw why the market went to ballpoints. My Rexall Drugs fountain pen was a lot of fun, but a ballpoint has never leaked in my khakis while I was halfway through teaching a class. For a short pen, I much prefer the Pentel Mini RSVP I found at the back of a drawer at work. It was there for at least four years, but wrote beautifully as soon as it touched the paper. If it were a vintage fountain pen, I'd need to send it away to be refurbished. I'm more satisfied with having spent that money on a modern Lamy Al-Star fountain pen and a converter. I'd like to eventually get a Mont Blanc and a Nakaya, but don't use fountain pens enough these days to justify it. Part of that is because most of the paper available in the US doesn't do very well with fountain pens. I prefer Japanese notebooks, but haven't gotten around to ordering any.

To be clear, I'm not saying that having vintage fountain pens is foolish. They have that gorgeous aesthetic of more romantic decades, and the flexible nibs are much nicer to use than the nail nibs of the less expensive modern pens. I don't fault anybody for owning them. I just prefer the reliability of modern pens, whether they be fountain pens or some of the surprisingly nice Japanese disposables.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

I have a nice gold-nibbed Pilot that my wife bought me in Tokyo about 15 years ago. Use it all the time and it is still going strong. Essentially looks like a Mount Blanc, but without the glitz. I like the Japanese flexible nib as well, although the nib is a little on the narrow side which goes with the way the Japanese have to write characters which need precise lines.


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## rowanlane (Nov 12, 2013)

Takai said:


> So I ran across this ad on craigslist, and I thought I'd get your opinion on if it's a good deal or not for a first pen.


It looks like a pretty good beginning pen, although I can't quite tell what model Parker it is. You should know that any pen that hasn't been used in a few years usually needs flushed out a few times before you start using it, and the ink cartridges may not work depending on age or if they've been opened.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

That model is a Parker Frontier, which was a lower-end pen from the 90s, sitting above the Vector in the lineup of the time.


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## MacTweed (Oct 30, 2011)

I like my solid brass pen. However, working in a hospital I should have chosen the solid copper pen given Cu's antimicrobial properties. Nonetheless, a quick wipe down with a cavi-wipe or alcohol helps keep the flora at bay.


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## Vincent3 (Dec 15, 2013)

As an aside, I'd also warn somebody new to fountain pens about people's tendency to see pens as community property. Make the mistake of leaving your expensive pen within reach of others, and it won't be long before somebody grabs it to jot something down. Between trying to pull off a twist-off cap and then using the nib with their ballpoint habits, you could find yourself eating the loss of the pen (unless you happen to be looking at the rare person who will agree to replace a $25 - 2,000 pen).


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

Vincent3 said:


> As an aside, I'd also warn somebody new to fountain pens about people's tendency to see pens as community property. Make the mistake of leaving your expensive pen within reach of others, and it won't be long before somebody grabs it to jot something down. Between trying to pull off a twist-off cap and then using the nib with their ballpoint habits, you could find yourself eating the loss of the pen (unless you happen to be looking at the rare person who will agree to replace a $25 - 2,000 pen).


Well said and very sound advice. I sometimes carry a ballpoint with me as well as my FP for the occasions I'm asked by those to use my pen. It is always one with a screw cap that i unscrew and hold onto - that assures the return of the pen.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Vincent3 said:


> As an aside, I'd also warn somebody new to fountain pens about people's tendency to see pens as community property. Make the mistake of leaving your expensive pen within reach of others, and it won't be long before somebody grabs it to jot something down. Between trying to pull off a twist-off cap and then using the nib with their ballpoint habits, you could find yourself eating the loss of the pen (unless you happen to be looking at the rare person who will agree to replace a $25 - 2,000 pen).


I have read this warning for 20 years, and I have never seen it happen. Not once, ever.


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## Takai (Jun 2, 2013)

Thought I'd revive this thread, I've recently purchased some new pens to get myself started. A Pilot Metropolitan (M), a Jinhao 159 (B), a Jinhao 250 (M), and a NOS Sheaffer Sagaris(M). I also picked up some of the beautiful Pilot Irohizuku ink, and some Noodler's Black. My other half expressed a desire to use a fountain pen, which means I have a "within reason" carte blanche as far as the hobby goes, unfortunately she has picked out two S.T. Duponts, and a Mont Blanc that she wants. 

What kind of paper do you you all write on? I picked up a couple Rhodia pads, one blank to write correspondence on, and one lined note book to practice handwriting. Also, I am thinking of picking up an Ahab and some fun shading ink to go with it. Does anyone have any suggestions on a good shading ink to pick up?


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

Interesting thread. Although I am not an aficionado of pens I do appreciate their history and the beauty of some models. I carry this pen (pic isn't mine but the pen is identical) which my Dad gave to me many years ago. It is a Parker Sonnet Sterling Silver Cisele. My Mother bought it for him when they were dating. I love how it writes and I especially love the look. Mine has developed a wonderful patina.


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## JeffTL (Aug 7, 2012)

Among modern pens my favorites are Pelikan and Lamy - durable and elegant. Note, however, that most Pelikans fill only from the bottle, and that the cartridges and converters for Lamys are proprietary (so be sure to get the converter and/or know where your local source of Lamy cartridges is).

I have a number of old pens, chiefly Parker, Sheaffer, and Esterbrook, but among them there is nothing with the sheer class of a Parker 51.

I usually fill all of these with Pelikan black ink.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

The two pens I use on a daily basis are the Parker Sonnet FP and the Parker Jotter ballpoint (in stainless). I take the jotter just about everywhere.


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## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

orange fury said:


> The two pens I use on a daily basis are the Parker Sonnet FP and the Parker Jotter ballpoint (in stainless). I take the jotter just about everywhere.


I also use a stainless steel jotter as my main pen. Its slim and looks good in a shirt pocket. I enjoy the look of pens from a pure aesthetic perspective and not so much the mechanics so ill stick with ballpoints since it's more about the design of the barrel. No cleaning, filling with ink and changing nibs required


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## SCsailor (Jul 2, 2008)

I carry around a montblanc with platinum detailing. It stays in my briefcase. I write with disposable pens. I'm not sure why, but I prefer the cheap pens.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## SammyH (Jan 29, 2014)

My prized pens are my grandfather's old Waterman pens - they are almost ludicrously beautiful, gold filagree, perfect condition; they fetch pretty amazing offers from pen nuts (I'm not one, lol)

My traddy-est pens, however, are my Waterman 52 etc. - simple, elegant, not showy, but extraordinary pens in the hand and I have a wide variety of nibs (semi flex to full flex to wet noodle etc.). I have many different styles and periods, but most of them are about like this (my pens are in my Boston apartment so don't have access to photograph them):


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SammyH said:


> My prized pens are my grandfather's old Waterman pens - they are almost ludicrously beautiful, gold filagree, perfect condition; they fetch pretty amazing offers from pen nuts (I'm not one, lol)
> 
> My traddy-est pens, however, are my Waterman 52 etc. - simple, elegant, not showy, but extraordinary pens in the hand and I have a wide variety of nibs (semi flex to full flex to wet noodle etc.). I have many different styles and periods, but most of them are about like this (my pens are in my Boston apartment so don't have access to photograph them):


I love that ink, that is a beautiful shade. Do you ever go around Fountain Pen Network?


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## SammyH (Jan 29, 2014)

That is lovely ink. I know about the fountain pen network but I haven't spent a lot of time there. Maybe I shall soon because I do have a bunch of pens I've purchased vintage over the years that I no longer use and would probably like to sell. 

An interesting thing to remember, by the way, is that just like most suits were "custom" to some degree or another before the 1950s, most quality pens were custom too. My grandfather used to describe going to purchase a pen: you would go into the waterman shop, and you would sit down and write with someone watching you, and they would put different pens in your hand to get a sense of your writing style. And then design a pen around your style.


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## Carguy (Nov 29, 2012)

Takai said:


> Thought I'd revive this thread, I've recently purchased some new pens to get myself started. A Pilot Metropolitan (M), a Jinhao 159 (B), a Jinhao 250 (M), and a NOS Sheaffer Sagaris(M). I also picked up some of the beautiful Pilot Irohizuku ink, and some Noodler's Black. My other half expressed a desire to use a fountain pen, which means I have a "within reason" carte blanche as far as the hobby goes, unfortunately she has picked out two S.T. Duponts, and a Mont Blanc that she wants.
> 
> What kind of paper do you you all write on? I picked up a couple Rhodia pads, one blank to write correspondence on, and one lined note book to practice handwriting. Also, I am thinking of picking up an Ahab and some fun shading ink to go with it. Does anyone have any suggestions on a good shading ink to pick up?


Be sure to check out The Fountain Pen Network for your new hobby. There are SO many opinions on good paper that I'm almost scared to add my own. I'm a big fountain pen collector, about evenly spaced between vintage and modern. Of all the pens I have, however, IMHO you can't beat a trusty Parker 51. There was a time you could pick these up "in the wild" (eBay) for less than $30, spend about that to get it tuned up, and you had a beautiful, awesome writing pen for no more than $60. Alas, no more. I've been hunting a rage red color for years and watched one go today for WELL over $600.When I started this hobby, I was lucky enough to have a good local pen store that helped me. I bought my first pen case and it held 8 pens. Told my pen shop that that I couldn't ever see needing space for more than 8 pens (he laughed at me!). That was, in fact, over 250 pens and countless cases ago. Feel free to message me if I can help you in any way.

mike


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

Purely from a fashion standpoint, the Pelikan pelican or Parker arrow would be the clip that have a nearly timeless look if they are to, say, be on view from a shirt pocket. Of course one should not buy functional items from a purely fashion standpoint.


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## SammyH (Jan 29, 2014)

SCsailor said:


> I carry around a montblanc with platinum detailing. It stays in my briefcase. I write with disposable pens. I'm not sure why, but I prefer the cheap pens.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Probably because they are easier in every way and not liable to explode all over your treasured OCBD?

I exaggerate. A bit.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Tempest said:


> Purely from a fashion standpoint, the Pelikan pelican or Parker arrow would be the clip that have a nearly timeless look if they are to, say, be on view from a shirt pocket. Of course one should not buy functional items from a purely fashion standpoint.


i have to say, I do love the Parker arrow clip...


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