# Confession: What Trad staple do you not like to wear?



## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

At the risk of being ostracized, I admit I don't like loafers in general, but penny and tassel specifically.

In Willie Morris' words, I'm a good Delta boy and, therefore, boots are my preference.


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

I've decided I look like a nerd in madras shirts. My wife has been telling me this for years and I think it's starting to sink in.


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

I can't do tassels either, although I recently tried. (They are soon to go on the thrift exchange.) Can't do patch Madras, bow ties, hats, seersucker suits. In every case except the patch Madras, I like the way they look on others and would like to be able to wear them, I just ... can't ... walk ... out ... that ... door ... in ... them.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

LongWing said:


> I've decided I look like a nerd in madras shirts.


Shorts OK??


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

My first impulse was to answer seersucker, but such an answer is really skewed by my living in Utah. I would never wear seersucker in Utah; more than any other summer Trad staple, it would just look wrong here. But, if I were to visit or move to the Southeast, I think I'd be perfectly willing to wear it.

This leaves the only Tradly article that I'd be unwilling to wear in any circumstance squarely patch madras. Regular madras is great, but I just do not like that patch stuff.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

LongWing said:


> I've decided I look like a nerd in madras shirts. My wife has been telling me this for years and I think it's starting to sink in.


Why do they do this to us? Every now and again I get the line "Well, that's one way to dress." And that tone . . . Dern wives and their wanting to let us know when we look a fool. How dare they!


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

I don't like argyle anything. 

And I came to the conclusion that patch madras had jumped the shark last summer when I saw a young girl wearing patch madras shorts with a Nascar T shirt. No great loss, regardless.

Scott


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## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Shorts OK??


Not shorts either. I have some full length madras trou that I like to wear with a white shirt and blazer but opportunity for such is rare.


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## hillcityjosh (Nov 18, 2005)

Coleman said:


> My first impulse was to answer seersucker, but such an answer is really skewed by my living in Utah. I would never wear seersucker in Utah; more than any other summer Trad staple, it would just look wrong here. But, if I were to visit or move to the Southeast, I think I'd be perfectly willing to wear it.


I know how you feel. I moved to Ohio from Tennessee a couple years ago and have had a hard time pulling off my seersucker trousers ever since. There's about 1 month out of the year when it's really hot enough to wear them. And the last time I wore them I got asked if I was wearing pajama's. Yes. Cuffed, seersucker pajamas...with an OCBD...and boat shoes....and a belt. Are people really that stupid? :icon_smile:

I'm gonna try out patch madras shorts this summer for the first time. I can't really think of anything "trad" that I wouldn't at least try out. I don't have any tassels but even my work wardrobe might be a bit too casual for them if I had them.


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## dwebber18 (Jun 5, 2008)

Being a tall big guy madras and other such patterns just make me look really out of place. I'd like some plaid or madras shorts but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I really love the look of seersucker, but can't bring myself to wear it. Also I will wear a bow tie with a tux but other than that I feel they look funny on me even though I like them. I also really like fedoras, but can't bring myself to buy one out of fear that I will never wear it. I had a nice straw panama that I wore rarely in the summer but really never felt comfortable in it out of certain situations and outfits.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

I don't like tassel loafers, most GTH pants (though I do own some Reds) or crewneck sweaters.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

I'd wear all the trad staples (living in the South helps) including bow ties (just put in an order with the Cordial Churchman), seersucker, white bucks, non-patch madras trousers, oddly colored trousers, and I'd wear a pair of white flannels if I could find them cheaply. The only things I wouldn't wear, and I wouldn't call them staples, are:

Emblematic trousers
Patch madras sport coat (shorts and trousers would be possible)
ribbon watch straps - just adds to much complexity into color coordination for me
tassel loafers (for a long time I wouldn't wear LHS or full strap loafers, but I now have three pair so they're growing on me)
Tennis sweater (Looks too bulky, don't like the color around the v-neck, and I don't play tennis so...)


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Boat shoes and going sockless (hate the feel of it)

The fear of seersucker puzzles me.


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

Polo shirts.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

AlanC said:


> Boat shoes and going sockless (hate the feel of it)


Though I mostly go sans socks May-September, ditto on the boat shoes. It must be the the fact I grew up a land-locked Midwesterner, but I've never liked boat shoes. I found that LL Bean Camp Shoes or Mocs better suit my style and need.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Fewer and fewer. Early on in my participation in this hallowed fraternity I was averse to the sack cut (liked the idea of it, just not on me) and a fuller leg in trousers. 

I've adopted both, however, and will not be turning back. I like a nice straight leg line more than khakis that fit like jeans and the sack is just more comfortable and just as flattering in a traditional way. 

As for bow-ties, gth pants, emblematics, madras, etc. No sweat! It was actually the more conservative elements of the canon that I had to adapt to rather than the eccentric ones.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

TMMKC said:


> Though I mostly go sans socks May-September, ditto on the boat shoes. It must be the the fact I grew up a land-locked Midwesterner, but I've never liked boat shoes. I found that LL Bean Camp Shoes or Mocs better suit my style and need.


^I definitely agree with you here. I wish now that I had gone with Blucher Mocs instead of my Topsiders. They just seem a bit off here (hey, we've got the Great Salt Lake and several dams ). When the Topsiders die, the plan is to replace them with Mocs and to be done with them.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I need to respond to this from a slightly different angle i.e. what I've never worn and never will wear: madras, seersucker, spectators. And that's about it really, everything else I've worn and/or still wear.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

As time passes, I'm gradually reaching the conclusion that I just can't wear GTH garments, very well and am thinning them from my wardrobe. Funny thing is, I didn't have any such items until after I discovered these fora several years back(?)!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

GTH? wazzat den?


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> GTH? wazzat den?


"Go to Hell"

It basically covers trousers, shirt and blazers that are either very brightly colored, covered in an embelmatic, or patchwork madras or cord...or any combination thereof! Think Lily Pulitzer. GTH are more about attitude than style IMO. You have to be one brave, very secure person to to wear some of it...though if you come from the circles in which GTH is commonplace, it's not a big deal.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Of what's been mentioned so far, only penny loafers are really "staples" in my book. GTH stuff doesn't really qualify.

I notice that navy blazers keep getting less and less time in my rotation, and I find them less versatile than usually advertised. When accompanied by the other trad staples like ties, khakis and grey flannels, they can look a bit stuffy in my book. Therefore I often pair them with jeans, or when I'm not wearing a tie.

Who knew? I find seasonal jackets (e.g., tweed in the winter, cotton in the summer) are getting more wear.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Tassel loafers. No way.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Joe Beamish said:


> Of what's been mentioned so far, only penny loafers are really "staples" in my book. GTH stuff doesn't really qualify.
> 
> I notice that navy blazers keep getting less and less time in my rotation, and I find them less versatile than usually advertised. When accompanied by the other trad staples like ties, khakis and grey flannels, they can look a bit stuffy in my book. Therefore I often pair them with jeans, or when I'm not wearing a tie.
> 
> Who knew? I find seasonal jackets (e.g., tweed in the winter, cotton in the summer) are getting more wear.


Agree on the stuffiness of blue blazers,we covered that in another thread last week.

Agree also with your "seasonal jackets" comment.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> GTH? wazzat den?


This:

https://www.ivy-style.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/gth-story.pdf


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## oldschoolprep (Jun 21, 2007)

*Chesterfield Overcoat*

I have become less inclined to don my Chesterfield overcoat in recent years. Can't cite an exact reason other than a family members and friends stated that I looked like either a mortician or Tory member of Parliament when wearing it. Have to admit on rare dressy occassions it looks great with a heavily starched white Irish linen handkerchief in the breast pocket.

Prefer my double-breasted BB polo coat, J. Press British Warmer or ragged 28 year old Burberry trench coat instead.


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## Dr.Watson (Sep 25, 2008)

Pink. I cannot bring myself to wear anything pink. 

I am not (within limits) against those who do, I just can't do it myself.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*Madras*

I just don't look good in madras. Maybe it is the facial hair, but I just looking goofy. My son on the other hand looks great in madras, but he doesn't shave yet.

Also, I don't like loafers. The ones that are wide enough in the toe box fall off in the heel, and if they fit the heel, then the toes are painful. I do wear boat shoes, but those I can adjust the laces.

Other than that, most anything goes. I am wearing a sweater vest over a white OACBD with bucks as I write this. A bit of a casual day, so no bow tie.


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## LastMango (Jan 28, 2010)

Taliesin said:


> This:
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/gth-story.pdf


Is there a better copy of this floating around anywhere? THe more I zoom the fuzzier it gets....good read though.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Last week and many other weeks besides. How many "security guard" threads are there?

Anyhoo I'll check out the most recent entry. The brass button navy blazer is turning into a kind of steak dinner -- a nice entree if you're into that, but the times and places for it are much diminished.....



Earl of Ormonde said:


> Agree on the stuffiness of blue blazers,we covered that in another thread last week.
> 
> Agree also with your "seasonal jackets" comment.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

I agree with the GTH comments. I wear trad so as not to draw attention to myself for doing something outrageous. I'd rather have people notice what I'm wearing, if at all, because it is classic, understated, stylish, sensible, comfortable, stylish (though not fashionable), etc. Not because it shouts, "Look at me".


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

LastMango said:


> Is there a better copy of this floating around anywhere? THe more I zoom the fuzzier it gets....good read though.


Here's a text version:

https://www.ivy-style.com/damned-dapper-chens-on-go-to-hell-for-the-rake.html


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## Cavebear58 (Jan 31, 2010)

*Absolutely...*



dwebber18 said:


> Being a tall big guy madras and other such patterns just make me look really out of place. I'd like some plaid or madras shorts but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I really love the look of seersucker, but can't bring myself to wear it. Also I will wear a bow tie with a tux but other than that I feel they look funny on me even though I like them. I also really like fedoras, but can't bring myself to buy one out of fear that I will never wear it. I had a nice straw panama that I wore rarely in the summer but really never felt comfortable in it out of certain situations and outfits.


I'd add that I have never felt comfortable in any kind of hat other than when hiking or working outdoors in sub 10C's temperatures. I'd love to do so but I just can't get it - especially when I meet someone and want to tip it.

The Madras theme is interesting. I was on a flight to India once, upgraded to business class, and wearing a LE Madras shirt under my crew-neck pullover. This very pleasant chap started speaking to me in the queue to the loo mid-flight and proceeded to tell me all I could possibly want to know about my shirt - right down to the village in India where his factory is that produces them for LE. It was actually very informative, though I must say it felt a little geeky!

Cheers, Graham.


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

Anything brogued is anathema to me. Have trouble with kiltie tassel loafers as well.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Khakis-most guys won't admit it but most guys look far better in dark trousers than in lighter colors. This is particularly true if you have any, shall we say, "heft" to your build. 
I do like the British Khaki shade because it sets off navy sweaters much better than navy pants would do, and as much as I like darker trousers I won't buy black and I've yet to see a pair of grey cotton pants that don't look like Dickies. 

Narrow ties-I know this is blasphemy but I've culled all but 3.75" and 4" ties from my holdings and since Brooks appears to have gone all narrow, all the time, I'll be sitting on the sidelines until the cycle shifts back to wider ties. 

Seersucker, linen, madras, Viyella, etc. are all great "seasonings" for the entree of Ivy League which at its core, is a pretty conservative silhouette and color range. I've said before I could live quite well with navy, charcoal, british khaki, and burgundy and be perfectly happy living out my days in a rotation of white, blue, blue/white uni stripe OCBDs on the days when a white golf shirt won't suffice. 
Agree with the comments on GTH apparel, and to a lesser extent on pink. 

I


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Brooksfan, good points. 

I like to wear khakis but I'm always looking for good darker options which is one reason I like some (dark) jeans for some occasions. 

Additional blasphemy: khaki pants don't look great with unistripe shirts: not enough contrast.

And I think the whole Mad Men influence has gone far enough and as such I find myself wearing wider ties more often and generally avoiding that look. I believe I just saw Bryan Adams doing a duet during the Olympics opening ceremony wearing what else, a Mad Men-esque dark suit and narrow tie and a pocket square with what else, a TV fold and yes I do believe I've had enough already. People are doing it to look cute or to be ironic and it's tiresome.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> As time passes, I'm gradually reaching the conclusion that I just can't wear GTH garments, very well and am thinning them from my wardrobe. Funny thing is, I didn't have any such items until after I discovered these fora several years back(?)!


I don't really wear any of the GTH stuff either. If I want to tell someone to GTH I'll just tell them.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

Pants. What?


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## crohnsappleadams (Nov 30, 2009)

Khakis here too. I have pale skin and I'm sort of nondescriptly out of shape, but khakis make me look paler and fatter. For pretty much any ensemble that calls for khakis, I'm much more comfortable if I can sub brown cords.

No tassels here either. I think they look ridiculous. And definitely never sockless.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

LongWing said:


> I've decided I look like a nerd in madras shirts. My wife has been telling me this for years and I think it's starting to sink in.


I also do not wear madras shirts. Jacket, yes. Pants, yes, in context. But shirts no. In fact, no tartan shirts either. But again, tartan pants, yes. Or any dark colored plaid or checked cotton shirts. Patchwork, I have yet to see any I liked in any formulation.

Pants in pink or red are not for me I have decided. Pale yellow or green remains a live possibility but not in the immediate future.

Dont wear emblematic pants, though I did see a pair of Berles in Japan embroidered with beer mugs. I would wear those with pride if they had any sized larger than 28.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

I don't like madras pants, shiny loafers, Bean Boots, tartan anything, or pullover sweaters.


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

Needlepoint belts, embroidered or pink trousers, bit loafers, logos/patches.


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## Valkyrie (Aug 27, 2009)

I'm sure that it is some pathology, given their popularity here, but I can't abide longwings. They look (to me) clunky and must have some private negative cultural association (used car dealers in Cleveland?). I'm a penny loafer and deck shoe guy. 

Bit loafers also seem somewhere between twee and arriviste to me—probably best explained by personal pathology.

I can never seem to buy or wear knit ties, for some reason. Seem harmless enough. Don't do paisleys either.

Seersucker, like Coleman said about Utah, doesn't seem to work in Colorado either, probably for the same reasons.

I don't do Barbours either—maybe Colorado again. The outdoors doesn't much resemble the highland moors. No rain, but cold sometimes. Down seems like a really good idea here.

No cutesy 'critter' pants, but I do have a pair of kelly green wide-wale cords and the pink BB OCBD is a wardrobe staple (but not together).


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

I do not wear madras shirts. I just prefer polo, linen, or OCBDs rolled up in the summer.

I had an aversion to knit ties, but after seeing so many good examples I just purchased one and have become a fan.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

This thread seems to have started moving toward criticizing things you don't wear. Kind of a shame.


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## mikejw (Nov 27, 2009)

I can't stand OCBDs, khakis, flannels, blazers, suits, loafers, bals, or bluchers.

Just kidding.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

This thread jumped the shark as soon as somebody said they didn't like wearing khakis.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Bit loafers. They evoke images of hairy-chested Italian men in awful '70s leisure clothing.

Also cheap penny loafers--Weejuns, for example, especially the corrected-grain, made-abroad kind. Nice ones like the LHS are a whole different story.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Topsider said:


> This thread jumped the shark as soon as somebody said they didn't like wearing khakis.


Indeed. Why then are they even reading the trad forum?


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Pentheos said:


> Indeed. Why then are they even reading the trad forum?


Agreed, while I can say there are many trad things I don't wear, it's really just because I haven't gotten around to trying them yet.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

I still can't convince myself to buy a pair of tasseled loafers.


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## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

I like tassel loafers but have resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to have to wait till I'm a bit older to be able to pull them off. On me, madras shirts look ultra dorky unless untucked, so I keep them strictly for weekend or vacation use. I don't have GTH anything. It just doesn't work with my personality. There are people who can pull it off and people who can't.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm with many of you in that I don't wear GTH.
As for the actual staples, I only avoid loafers, as I have now learned that they are a waste of my money unless immaculately fitted. I also do not own a single suit and almost never wear sport coats or blazers. 
I think the more interesting question may be "what untradly items do you wear."


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Mississippi Mud said:


> At the risk of being ostracized, I admit I don't like loafers in general, but penny and tassel specifically.
> 
> In Willie Morris' words, I'm a good Delta boy and, therefore, boots are my preference.


Too late, you're ostracized, I don't see the value in this thread...this isn't 'flavor of the week' forum...


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

LOL, at this point all of my favorite things have been listed as things folks won't wear:

navy blazers - my favorite coats
_pink _OCBDs - my favorite OCBDs (if I'm wearing an OCBD there's a 6 in 11 chance it's pink)
knit ties - my favorite ties
longwings - my favorite shoe
pennies - my second favorite shoe
khakis - my favorite trousers
polos - my favorite casual warm weather shirts
madras shirts - my second favorite warm weather shirts
_argyle _socks - it's gotten to the point that if I'm wearing socks, they are argyle 
nylon watch straps - all I've got


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

Other than Madras shirts (with the exception of that patch-work number posted in the silly pants thread), I think I wear all of it... or would. It's just hard to not look ridiculous when you're 6'4, not skinny, and wearing a pattern like that.


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

EastVillageTrad said:


> Too late, you're ostracized, I don't see the value in this thread...this isn't 'flavor of the week' forum...


Well, at least I like your signature--one of my favorite quotes by Thoreau.


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## LanceW (Jun 2, 2009)

Tassel loafers, longwings, madras.

I wear argyle socks 365 days a year, though.


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## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

Clarks desert boots.

Wore them throughout junior high school and off-and-on in high school until I moved South. Haven't worn a pair in thirty years.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

EastVillageTrad said:


> I don't see the value in this thread...this isn't 'flavor of the week' forum...


Well, it is nowadays.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Now, now. Khakis are great for birth control.

Actually I think someone suggested not wearing khakis 24/7 -- which in itself is blasphemous I realize



Topsider said:


> This thread jumped the shark as soon as somebody said they didn't like wearing khakis.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Bowtie and going sockless top the list. I would definitely wear GTH if my wife wouldn't make me sleep in the shed after doing so. Seersucker, tasseled loafers, and sack blazers are all staples here. (My wife does not like unstructured shoulders. Go figure.) Bill:aportnoy:


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Topsider said:


> Well, it is nowadays.


You know, I'm sick of this loss-of-the-golden-age-o'-Trad fallacy that's being espoused in a number of threads lately (a sentiment that seems to come along in cycles just like the recurrent questions by each new generation of newbies---these are always going to happen, no need to rough up newbs). As far as I can tell, the same arguments have been happening since the inception of the forum; they don't seem to be some new corruption---and luckily we seem to be some of the most gentlemanly fellows on the planet, even when in disagreement. All in all, the integrity of the forum, and the aesthetic, still feels intact to me. I may be wrong.

If you all need to step in and show us how it's done, please do! We are here to learn. Post your pics to WAYW and show us why we children are so much less Tradly, or give constructive comments in the threads where you know that we've gone awry. Just please don't treat us like we are ruining the Trad Forum, a forum that I feel we all truly appreciate and respect.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Tucker said:


> Clarks desert boots.
> 
> Wore them throughout junior high school and off-and-on in high school until I moved South. Haven't worn a pair in thirty years.


Try Alden's flex-welt suede chukkas. :aportnoy:


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I give a pass to the Golden Grumps when they chastise the goslings for untradliness. Unlike the fashion forum or other forums in general that are simply bound together by those who care about there dress, trad is a reasonably well defined style. It would be like a superhero forum where some don't wear tights and some don't wear capes. Rules are rules. Blue blazers do not a trad make. I feel like you have to buy into it 80% or better or you're really just a guy in a blazer. Nothing wrong with not being trad, just maybe not the super-specific-subforum to spend your time on if you don't buy into the whole thing.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Coleman said:


> You know, I'm sick of this loss-of-the-golden-age-o'-Trad fallacy that's being espoused in a number of threads lately


Fallacy? 'Fraid not.

I'm sick about it too, but not because it isn't true.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Please help us correct our course then. The forum goes where the posts go. Unspoken truths help us not.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Coleman said:


> Please help us correct our course then. The forum goes where the posts go. Unspoken truths help us not.


I'll do what I can, but I'm a doctor, not a magician. 

Pointing out the ridiculousness of this thread is an attempt at course correction, by the way.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

LOL (about your doctor/magician comment), and thank you (sincerely). 

And you're right, I realized that. In fact I've read this same thread twice or so before (as past threads) and the same complaints were made. I just dislike when some of our best and most knowledgeable members come in and tell us we are wrong and foolish with out telling us why (this thread isn't exactly the best example---although it does have a bit of that---but in other discussions like say about jeans or some other thing there is a lot of disagreement about). And I know, you guys get tired of the same ol' silly questions, but sometimes, you know, we probably do need some real guidance, not just, "you're wrong and good day!"

Also, what's wrong with a little absurdity now and again?


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

Topsider said:


> I'll do what I can, but I'm a doctor, not a magician.
> 
> Pointing out the ridiculousness of this thread is an attempt at course correction, by the way.


or to phrase it correctly "Dammit Jim I'm a doctor not a magician."


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Bow ties and GTH pants.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Never been able to pull the trigger on bucks, white or dirty


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## Jack1425 (Sep 19, 2008)

If I was forced on pain of death to nail down one item of tradliness I simply would/could not wear it would certainly be Madras shirts. Like others here it is not out of any disdain for madras, I cannot seem to pull it off. Having said that, I will be giving madras shorts a go once the weather warms up. 

Coleman, Trip good points for sure. Initially, I enjoyed the lightheartedness of the thread and discourse amongst fellow Trads. What I cannot seem to grasp though is why a non-trad would feel the need to enter any comment that wasn't productive. I do not like this or that and would never wear such things.. Are you Trad? Well, no...  Takes all kinds I suppose.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Coleman said:


> --and luckily we seem to be some of the most gentlemanly fellows on the planet, even when in disagreement.





Trip English said:


> I give a pass to the Golden Grumps when they chastise the goslings for untradliness.


I absolutely agree with both of the above sentiments.

The "authenticity" of contemporary trad (is TNSIL better?) is rightly questioned by older members who lived through the "heyday" of the late 1950s-early 1960s and now see us "goslings" modifying/updating/changing/over-emphasizing certain elements of the original "look". However, and to be quite harsh, there are less and less of those original members (literally) still around. With that in mind, the Young Turks have reinterpreted certain elements of the look and, from my perspective, are following the original spirit of the trad look, which is the most important thing. Plus, it's just a helluva great forum!


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Agreed on all counts, Cards.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Tucker said:


> Clarks desert boots.
> 
> Wore them throughout junior high school and off-and-on in high school until I moved South. Haven't worn a pair in thirty years.


You aren't missing anything. They are crap now. I am wearing an Alden chukka with a crepe sole as we speak and I'm never giving this up!


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Topsider said:


> This thread jumped the shark as soon as somebody said they didn't like wearing khakis.


If I'm not mistaken, "jumping the shark means going off the intended course, kind of like when Fonzie jumped the shark on Happy Days?".

So maybe I'm really obtuse but I don't see how answering the OP's question "what trad staple do you not like to wear" with my preference to wear casual trousers that aren't khakis (arguably the bedrock of trad along with navy blazers and OCBDs) can be called "jumping the shark."

Just asking...


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Trad without its staples is like a Martini without vermouth.

Most of the things mentioned in this thread aren't really "staples" (bow ties, GTH pants, patch madras, etc.) They're just things that can be worn or not worn depending on personal preference, geography, etc.

Khakis, navy blazers, button-down oxfords, penny loafers, etc. are the bedrock of the traditional wardrobe, as you noted. If you're not even going to stick to the basics, you might as well stay in the fashion forum.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

^A perfect response in illuminating some of the previous responses by the pros of the forum.

Topsider

If you happen to find yourself in Utah in the future, I'll make you that Martini (and I always use Vermouth).


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## Bruce Wayne (Mar 10, 2008)

Tweed, Shetland, or any other scratchy wool.

Madras (I don't have the confidence to pull it off.) 

:icon_peaceplease:


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## Bruce Wayne (Mar 10, 2008)

Topsider said:


> I'll do what I can, but I'm a doctor, not a magician.


You should add "Dammit, Jim" before that lol. :icon_smile_wink:

(R.I.P. DeForest Kelly and Gene Roddenberry)


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

I was just thinking that this thread would be a lot more interesting if people would state why they don't like wearing a particular article of clothing.

For example, I don't wear wingtips.

Now, it would be easy to say that I just don't think I look good in them (which is true), but what I really think it boils down to is that I associate wingtips with my father (he always wore them to work at IBM), and I stubbornly refuse to believe that I'm "old enough" to wear wingtips (even though I'm older than he was back then).

Delusional? Of course! Might I eventually get over it and buy some wingtips? Probably. Of course, I'll wait until I'm old enough.


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

Topsider said:


> I was just thinking that this thread would be a lot more interesting if people would state why they don't like wearing a particular article of clothing.
> 
> For example, I don't wear wingtips.
> 
> ...


You too on age and wingtips, eh? Even though I love the way they look, I can't bring myself to purchase any yet. I suppose when my six year old finally refers to me as "old," I can go right out and buy my first pair.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Bruce Wayne said:


> Madras (I don't have the confidence to pull it off.)


Now we're getting somewhere! 

I didn't wear bow ties for the longest time because, frankly, I was too chicken. I liked them, but I was afraid people would point and laugh. And, I live in the South (Virginia)! They're not that unusual around here.

I got over it. The first day I wore one to work, all I got were compliments. Actually, most people didn't say a thing. I have yet to hear a single derogatory remark. Even if somebody said something now, I'm so used to wearing them that I wouldn't even care.

If you like madras, give it a try. It's worth it. Madras is a wonderful thing. As with most things, however, it's best in moderation. Start with shorts, then move up to short-sleeved shirts (try a camp-style shirt if you associate short-sleeved button-downs with "Revenge of the Nerds").

Before long, you'll be ready for patch madras. Maybe. Baby steps.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Mississippi Mud said:


> I suppose when my six year old finally refers to me as "old," I can go right out and buy my first pair.


Trust me...to him, you're really, really old.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Topsider said:


> I was just thinking that this thread would be a lot more interesting if people would state why they don't like wearing a particular article of clothing.
> 
> For example, I don't wear wingtips.
> 
> ...


Wingtips were my first dress shoes because that is what my father wore. Once I became more educated on choices, I moved onto captoe shoes. I recently picked up a pair of AE MacNeils and I do love them. The old man association did give me pause for concern (I am only 40), but have come to love them.

I prefer the Winston Churchill approach to martinis, just a nod to the vermouth.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Cowtown said:


> I prefer the Winston Churchill approach to martinis, just a nod to the vermouth.


Churchill was a helluva statesman, but he couldn't mix a drink to save his life. Probably some side effect of all of that bland British cooking.

I'd rather drink with FDR. He liked his Martinis dirty.


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## Dr.Watson (Sep 25, 2008)

I wear everything Topsider listed as trad "bedrock" accept for penny loafers. Since I grew into adult sizes (I wore them as a kid) every penny loafer I try is either too wide or too tight. That is, accept for a really shiny Cole Haan pair that I didn't like. When I find a pair that fits (and is decent looking) I will wear them.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Dr.Watson said:


> Since I grew into adult sizes (I wore them as a kid) every penny loafer I try is either too wide or too tight. That is, accept for a really shiny Cole Haan pair that I didn't like. When I find a pair that fits (and is decent looking) I will wear them.


Interesting. I've always found Cole Haan to be particularly narrow...surprised they didn't work for you. I generally wear a wide (or "E") shoe, so I'm picky about these things.

Have you tried the Alden LHS? They're not as casual as the typical Bass Weejun, but they have a wide range of sizes available. Also, check out the Allen Edmonds Walden. More of a classic penny loafer, with a moccasin-stitched toe.


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## Dr.Watson (Sep 25, 2008)

^Thanks for the suggestions Topsider. The Cole Haan shoes _did_ fit, its just they were too shiny for me. And as a high-school (soon to be college) student, Alden or AE just aren't options.

So I will just stick to boat shoes and dirty bucks for now. Though I will be keeping an eye out for the perfect pair of pennies. . .


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Dr.Watson said:


> The Cole Haan shoes _did_ fit, its just they were too shiny for me.


They're probably corrected-grain leather. You can use a cotton ball and some rubbing alcohol to take off the plasticky finish (don't freak out, they'll look like hell at first, but you haven't ruined them), then reapply some shoe polish (use Kiwi in the tin), buff with a horsehair brush and then a smooth cotton cloth, and...voila. No more "fake shine."


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Dr.Watson said:


> ^Thanks for the suggestions Topsider. The Cole Haan shoes _did_ fit, its just they were too shiny for me. And as a high-school (soon to be college) student, Alden or AE just aren't options.
> 
> So I will just stick to boat shoes and dirty bucks for now. Though I will be keeping an eye out for the perfect pair of pennies. . .


You're probably right about the Aldens being out of range, but if you call the AE Shoebank, you may be surprised at what you can get for about the same money as those over-priced Cole-Haans


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

I'd highly recommend searching on ebay as well. If you're patient, I've found that eventually the pair I'm looking for pops up and at a price that is often less expensive than either AE Shoe Bank seconds or Cole Haan's.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

I don't wear Tartan sport shirts (which I think must be accredited staple status) because I think its not very complementary to a muted pale complexion to have complicated patterns in dark colors so close to the face. Someone with a higher contrast looks great in that kind of look.

I dont wear madras shirts for basically the same reasons. Also, I don't have the guns for short-sleeve shirts.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

Brooksfan said:


> If I'm not mistaken, "jumping the shark means going off the intended course, kind of like when Fonzie jumped the shark on Happy Days?".
> 
> So maybe I'm really obtuse but I don't see how answering the OP's question "what trad staple do you not like to wear" with my preference to wear casual trousers that aren't khakis (arguably the bedrock of trad along with navy blazers and OCBDs) can be called "jumping the shark."
> 
> Just asking...


It is exactly like when Fonzie jumped the shark on Happy Days, but the meaning of the phrase is slightly more ironic. It signifies when something has gotten so off course or "out-of-whack", that it ceases to resemble anything remotely of what it once was and has passed into the realm of the absurd. In other words, someone that proclaims to be trad but does not wear/prefer khaki trousers has "jumped the shark" presumably in this person's opinion as this is so ingrained in the trad wardrobe that to not prefer it is to not be trad or has deviated well off the course into absurdity.

Disclaimer: I could be wrong. Of course, according to some, this whole thread is proof that this entire forum has jumped the shark. I'll leave that for everyone else to decide.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Beefeater said:


> I could be wrong.


Nope. You nailed it.


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

Topsider said:


> Nope. You nailed it.


Well, if this is the moment that this forum jumped the shark, I guess I'll carry the infamy of driving the boat--all this in the first thread I started here, too.

The question was innocent enough, and from the many honest responses, there certainly are preferences here which overrule slavish devotion to a sometimes hidebound sartorial code. Of course, as a Southerner, perhaps I'm not trad at all, as many have quibbled in the archives; perhaps we Southerners are just the snaggle-toothed cousins with boots, darts, and pleats.

(From reading the archives, however, it's clear that this forum is prone to identity crises. I suspect it won't be the last.)


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Beefeater said:


> It is exactly like when Fonzie jumped the shark on Happy Days, but the meaning of the phrase is slightly more ironic. It signifies when something has gotten so off course or "out-of-whack", that it ceases to resemble anything remotely of what it once was and has passed into the realm of the absurd. In other words, someone that proclaims to be trad but does not wear/prefer khaki trousers has "jumped the shark" presumably in this person's opinion as this is so ingrained in the trad wardrobe that to not prefer it is to not be trad or has deviated well off the course into absurdity.
> 
> Disclaimer: I could be wrong. Of course, according to some, this whole thread is proof that this entire forum has jumped the shark. I'll leave that for everyone else to decide.


Although I've only been posting here for a few months, I have been observing for much longer. I do not think the entire forum has "jumped the shark", however there have been periodic waves of folks passing through who seem to want to be Trad but only because they think its in fashion at the moment. What they don't seem to grasp is that the whole idea of Trad is that it stays the same regardless of the passing winds of fashion. The biggest problem with these folks is that they don't recognize when its time for them to leave and move on to their next fancy. They like to stick around too long and try to change Trad and us along with it.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Just can't go with a bow tie (unless I'm wearing a tux). Love my 3/2 NavY BB blazer, khakis, penny loafers, ocbds and regimental ties. But frankly I would feel like a clown in a bow tie. That's not to say others who wear them look like clowns...I would just feel like one. Sorry...I...just...can't...do...it Don't hate me! Well...ok...YES I ADMIT IT...I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who wears a bowtie. Well--there is is:aportnoy:


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Saltydog said:


> I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who wears a bowtie.


Well, at least you realize that the problem is you.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

Speaking of jumping the shark, I once heard a certain resident of Oxford, MS say that it was such a nice town, they named a place in England after it! That person must have been wearing a navy blazer and khakis! Maybe even GTH socks! That reminds me, can there be an even more adamant statement than GTH? I'm thinking GFY...


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Got Shell? said:


> That reminds me, can there be an even more adamant statement than GTH? I'm thinking GFY...


There's a tie for that...


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Topsider said:


> There's a tie for that...


Has anyone ever noticed it without it being pointed out to them?


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

chacend said:


> Has anyone ever noticed it without it being pointed out to them?


I don't own that tie, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't tempted to buy one.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

chacend said:


> The biggest problem with these folks is that they don't recognize when its time for them to leave and move on to their next fancy. They like to stick around too long and try to change Trad and us along with it.


An even bigger problem is the heavy hitters of yore that have abandoned this board altogether. Perhaps that's just the nature of online boards such as these, that the integral members leave or migrate elsewhere (most of you know where) and others take their place. Maybe it's not a problem, who knows?

It just seems the rigorous portrayal (or defense) of what was ivy/trad has softened a bit here. An earlier poster called it hidebound adherence or something like that to the style, which was what I thought it was all about. I guess that can only take you so far.


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

Got Shell? said:


> Speaking of jumping the shark, I once heard a certain resident of Oxford, MS say that it was such a nice town, they named a place in England after it! That person must have been wearing a navy blazer and khakis! Maybe even GTH socks! That reminds me, can there be an even more adamant statement than GTH? I'm thinking GFY...


We often say such things with a twinkle in our eye and enough bourbon in our belly.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Not a fan of seersucker, mostly because summer is when I embrace my preppy roots and migrate from Tradtown. Tretorns, madras shorts, Polo shirts and top-siders always take my vote, so dressing "up" in seersucker doesn't do it for me.

I like virtually everything else, but I cannot believe there are people who don't love madras. It's like the traddest thing ever! My entire summer wardrobe could be labelled as GTH. Granted I am thin and 5'9, but I love madras like a family member. 

Now that you've made me think of it, I want to stow the Norwegian and bust out the polos, but it's 40 degrees today.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Saltydog said:


> Don't hate me! Well...ok...YES I ADMIT IT...I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who wears a bowtie. Well--there is is:aportnoy:


And you live in Mississippi?! I assume, then, that there are quite a number of people you don't take seriously :icon_smile_wink:

Up here in SC bow ties are fairly common - in any gathering of men who are all wearing ties is seems that about 1/3 (including the younger set) will be sporting a bow. When I lived in the north I never wore one, but as soon as I hit Dixie I've been wearing them at least once a week and frequently get favorable comments (no negative ones yet). If nothing else, I've found that bows are much less hassle than long ties and require much less fussing (no readjusting the knot during the day, no worrying about dropping food on the tie, the tie doesn't flail around when my jacket is open, etc.) Just try one, you might like it :teacha:


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

*Nice*



Topsider said:


> There's a tie for that...


Nice! Chipp or Press? Dare you to wear it to church...


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Beefeater said:


> It just seems the rigorous portrayal (or defense) of what was ivy/trad has softened a bit here. An earlier poster called it hidebound adherence or something like that to the style, which was what I thought it was all about.


Some folks seem to have forgotten that "trad" is short for "traditional."


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Cardinals5 said:


> And you live in Mississippi?! I assume, then, that there are quite a number of people you don't take seriously :icon_smile_wink:


Actually, some of the most serious people I've ever met wore bow ties.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

Got Shell? said:


> Nice! Chipp or Press? Dare you to wear it to church...


Sure, just not during Lent.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Got Shell? said:


> Nice! Chipp or Press?


Neither. You can get it here: *https://tinyurl.com/y9shw4a*


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Beefeater said:


> It just seems the rigorous portrayal (or defense) of what was ivy/trad has softened a bit here. An earlier poster called it hidebound adherence or something like that to the style, which was what I thought it was all about. I guess that can only take you so far.





Topsider said:


> Some folks seem to have forgotten that "trad" is short for "traditional."


Granted many of the Young Turks have made slight modifications to the overall look - incorporating things like Alden Indy Boots - but overall I would say the average regular poster on the board is still within the realm of "trad" in its original incarnation. When I say "original incarnation" I'm referring to the advent of the trad forum since even that group (wise, old sages to us young bucks) had very few "perfect" trads. As an experiment, look through the earliest postings on the What Are You Wearing thread (I've looked through most of the pages over the months) and you'll find well-known posters admitting to wearing flip-flops, black chinos, baseball hats, silk shirts, 2B darted jackets, etc.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Topsider said:


> Actually, some of the most serious people I've ever met wore bow ties.


Agreed


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Cardinals5 said:


> well-known posters admitting to wearing flip-flops, black chinos, baseball hats, silk shirts, 2B darted jackets, etc.


Yeah, but they went to rehab and worked it out. They're all better now.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

I really like that blackwatch jacket. I think blackwatch and pink go great together when done right. If I dressed up more, I'd have to get a blackwatch jacket or pants. It's one of my favorites. Not exactly GTH. More like, have a nice day, but don't mention the pattern, or I'll spread nasty rumors about you.


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## Dr.Watson (Sep 25, 2008)

_"you'll find well-known posters admitting to wearing flip-flops, black chinos, baseball hats, silk shirts, 2B darted jackets, etc."_

I think in the right context baseball caps are trad. . .


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

Dr.Watson said:


> _"you'll find well-known posters admitting to wearing flip-flops, black chinos, baseball hats, silk shirts, 2B darted jackets, etc."_
> 
> I think in the right context baseball caps are trad. . .


Black sneakers, too.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Let me expand on the whole idea of mixing trad and non-trad apparel.

As long as the wearer is essentially sticking with the basics, adding one item that deviates from the norm can work, whether it's the usual GTH sort of thing, an Aloha shirt, a pair of flip-flops, or a ratty ball cap.

The trick is, the overall look must still be traditional. As with GTH attire, you should limit yourself to one discordant item at a time.

There are certain things that simply never work, of course. It's usually pretty (painfully) obvious when that happens.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Topsider said:


> Yeah, but they went to rehab and worked it out. They're all better now.


That's what we need - Hello, my name is Cardinals5, I recently strayed from "the trad" by purchasing a pair of black Dockers wrinkle-resistant, cuff-less, "khakis" that match my Stacy Adams faux croc square toed triple monks.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

The last 20 posts have me screaming in amusement, but I want to get grounded for a second: Someone remarked on how interesting it would be if we remarked on WHY we don't wear certain articles of clothing. So, here 's a funny quote, in a sense:
a colleague: I really want to punch that guy in the face! (referring to a top surgeon here in central NJ)
me: Why, because he is a pompous arse, who curses at his staff?
a colleague: no, because he wears a bow tie!
Experience tells me this is not a minority opinion. That said, I like the look, but I just can't do it.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

I just got into bows in the last year and a half or so. I was unsure of them at first, but they have quickly become my go-to ties for the reasons stated by Cardinals above. Any comments I get always seem to be positive. Not many bow wearers here in OK, but since beginning law school I've noticed quite a few older lawyers sporting them at school events, etc.

I'm still a bit self conscious in my Norwegian sweater. I don't think I could bring myself to wear emblematic pants. Of course I said that about bows, emblematic belts, and several other items I now wear regularly before giving them a try!


Best,

Michael


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

mjo_1 said:


> I don't think I could bring myself to wear emblematic pants.


Once I got over my wife's scorn and disapproval, the rest of the world was no problem. As in most other things.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

eyedoc2180 said:


> So, here 's a funny quote, in a sense:
> a colleague: I really want to punch that guy in the face! (referring to a top surgeon here in central NJ)
> me: Why, because he is a pompous arse, who curses at his staff?
> a colleague: no, because he wears a bow tie!
> Experience tells me this is not a minority opinion.


I'd say your colleague has issues.


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## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

Topsider said:


> I'd say your colleague has issues.


Forget it, Top. It's New Jersey.


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## crohnsappleadams (Nov 30, 2009)

Pentheos said:


> Indeed. Why then are they even reading the trad forum?


I never said I don't like khakis. I just don't like me in khakis.


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## randomdude (Jun 4, 2007)

boatshoe said:


> Forget it, Top. It's New Jersey.


Hey!

Harris was from New Jersey, if I remember correctly.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

TS, it's great to have you back.

I'm a big fan of bowties. Tie it and forget it. I also don't need to worry about the tie being long enough to reach my belt buckle without having a little knot, something difficult to do being 6'4 and all.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Topsider said:


> Some folks seem to have forgotten that "trad" is short for "traditional."


Trad is actually not short for traditional. This issue has been discussed previously. The word was used by Flusser and in Japan to describe the Ivy League look. It was used by Harris in his post to start the trad forum.

For example, a darted two button blazer, while traditional, would not fit into the strict definition of trad. These debates seemed fairly common on the board several years ago as some wanted to stick with the narrow definition and others wanted to expand to include "traditional" items.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

This thread took a turn for the better. Thank you Topsider et al for bringing a good deal of education and insight (and humor) to it.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Cowtown said:


> Trad is actually not short for traditional.


What, then..."trad-gic?"


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

I've been here for a long time, and I still don't know what anyone means when they describe a person as "a Trad" or a car or whatever as "Trad". Or life choices as "Trad" or "not Trad". 

The clothing called "Trad" on this forum appears to be an interpretation of Ivy League style, with some modifications, concessions to modern times, accounting for regional preferences, etc. Because it incorporates components of Ivy League clothing, it is of interest to those who wear the older (but not "original") style. But it isn't the same thing.

Regarding the perpetual identity crisis: it seems to me that this often stems from unfortunate attempts to link modern "Trad" to the high-WASP culture that was once strongly, and is now weakly, associated with Ivy League style.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Topsider said:


> I'd say your colleague has issues.


Agreed. The sentiment is out there, however unspoken, in more diplomatic terms. I mean to say that the negativity on the bow tie is just a little more than I can take, though I don't generally dress to please others. Now, GTH, I could pull that one off, literally as well as figuratively.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

eyedoc2180 said:


> Now, GTH, I could pull that one off, literally as well as figuratively.


It's all relative.

If you really want a punch in the nose, tie a sweater around your neck, or wear an ascot...to the local biker bar.


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## suitandtieguy (Mar 9, 2007)

Hate shirts with button cuffs, only feel comfortable in french cuffs with links or silk knots.


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## suitandtieguy (Mar 9, 2007)

Topsider said:


> It's all relative.
> 
> If you really want a punch in the nose, tie a sweater around your neck, or wear an ascot...to the local biker bar.


I wear an Ascot on stay at home Sundays or if we are just going out for a casual drink/out door event on Sundays. Fortunately I do not frequent biker bars. I always wear a dress shirt & blazer/suit jacket/sport coat with the ascot.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

On the subject of bow ties and bikers, a classic thread, and a classic post by A. Squire:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=52243



> The light on your gas gauge has been lit for much to long. You have to stop for gas. You pull into a gas station running on fumes, only to discover the lot littered in bikes and bikers. Usually not a big deal, but you're driving your fancy little convertible. To compound matters you remember that your key lime pants kinda sorta match your green bow tie with hot pink monkies dancing under umbrellas. You sit in the car for a few minutes and consider taking your tie off. The bikers are going nowhere fast. You say what the hell.
> 
> You get out, look them in the eye and you gotta say something. To the group facing you or me at the time, true story, "Well, what's up you bunch of __ussies?"
> 
> ...


:aportnoy:


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Thanks for the Squire repost. I wish he still posted here.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

ROFL! Squire's above post is brilliant. :aportnoy:


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

After a relatively long absence, it has been interesting to stop by AAAT and see what's what. One naturally expects change when not around a place, but it is downright hilarious to read fulsome apostasy, guiltless heresy and general "dissing" of what is usually a mild thing, that of dressing in particular parts of a traditional, or in the jargon here, Trad manner.

I don't find much value if someone here says "I don't like X" without any explanation as to why. But if someone says "I don't like X because" and goes on to explain with things like "my wife makes fun of me if I wear it", "it makes my butt look like two pigs fighting under a blanket", or "if I go out wearing X I am afraid guys who I think are virulently anti-X will beat me senseless" then I am interested. One can then contemplate such useful things as costuming in relationships, how we are perceived, and whether or not clothing _per se _can be an antagonistic thing in society.

My thanks to Topsider for re-posting a great A. Squire comment. When I was younger and given to wearing a lot of pink, green and Breton Red, I occasionally found myself the object of stares by groups in very different costume. I would usually say something like "What, you guys have never seen a clown on his day off before?" or something like that and they would start laughing.

Most people would rather have a laugh or a joke at someone's expense rather than a fight. And for those who are going to fight no matter what, what you're wearing won't make any difference. Might as well get loaded into the back of the ambulance in one's finest classic attire, as everyone knows the best-dressed often get the quickest attention and best service. :icon_smile:


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Quay said:


> After a relatively long absence, it has been interesting to stop by AAAT and see what's what. One naturally expects change when not around a place, but it is downright hilarious to read fulsome apostasy, guiltless heresy and general "dissing" of what is usually a mild thing, that of dressing in particular parts of a traditional, or in the jargon here, Trad manner.
> 
> I don't find much value if someone here says "I don't like X" without any explanation as to why. ........................ Might as well get loaded into the back of the ambulance in one's finest classic attire, as everyone knows the best-dressed often get the quickest attention and best service. :icon_smile:


Perhaps there is a for-pay site that would be less amusing, and less subject to the unwashed masses. The evolution to which you refer is natural, and refreshing IMHO. (Guiltless heresy is my middle name.) Frankly, when someone doesn't like "XYZ" without qualification, there is usually no enlightenment in pressing for the answer. I, for one, have found this to be an interesting thread. Bill


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

eyedoc2180 said:


> Perhaps there is a for-pay site that would be less amusing, and less subject to the unwashed masses.


If there is, I'm not interested.  I was serious when I said that I find many of the comments hilarious. Why pay for fun if it's not necessary? I'm here for the amusement and the occasional comment that leads me to think about interesting things. Pleasantly enough, amusement often leads to good and interesting thoughts.



> The evolution to which you refer is natural, and refreshing IMHO.


Well, I don't know about evolution but it is a change and why not be refreshed by it? Seems a nice way to go about the experience.



> (Guiltless heresy is my middle name.)


You, too? I'd no idea it was so popular!



> I, for one, have found this to be an interesting thread. Bill


I have as well. The absence of a reason for an opinion can be as interesting to speculate on as an actual answer. I simply find more value in a stated reason than letting my mind wander into what that reason might be. (I have to do enough of that sort of wandering in my work life.)

Overall, I'm very happy with any thread in which the wit of A. Squire is used to rescue what might be uninteresting.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Quay said:


> Overall, I'm very happy with any thread in which the wit of A. Squire is used to rescue what might be uninteresting.


Oops, you did it again. Now I will be more basic, and you may have the last word. Rescue? I think you are condescending to those of us who find this thread pretty cool, with or without a resurrected quote (which I thought was also pretty cool). Cripes, if we all commented thusly on every uninteresting thread........I have even started a few m'self, eh wot?


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

eyedoc2180 said:


> ... I think you are condescending to those of us who find this thread pretty cool, with or without a resurrected quote (which I thought was also pretty cool)....


I find this thread "pretty cool" but I can''t say exactly when the coolness came about. I think finding something "hilarious" is a compliment to the wit and ingenuity of the people writing. Don't you?

But condescending to some of my fellow AAAT-ers? Rubbish. You're the one who employed the deeply condescending phrase "unwashed masses" in a serious sentence referring to your fellows here. I am shocked, shocked that such a thing could go on here!* :icon_smile_wink:

But all this is of no importance whatsoever compared to the time of day here, which is the late cocktail hour. Thanks for the last word. Next round's on me. :icon_smile:

*(Stolen from the film _Casablanca_, for those not familiar with it.)


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I may have glossed over it, but I saw no mention of AA specs. Then again, those may be more preppy than trad...


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Can't imagine anyone not wanting to where AA specs! I even have them on my Avatar:icon_smile_big:


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

Quay said:


> The absence of a reason for an opinion can be as interesting to speculate on as an actual answer. I simply find more value in a stated reason than letting my mind wander into what that reason might be.


Myself, I thought the interesting part was to see what item occurred most frequently. Psychology and statistics wrapped in patchwork madras...


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Mad Hatter said:


> Myself, I thought the interesting part was to see what item occurred most frequently. Psychology and statistics wrapped in patchwork madras...


Spot on.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

chacend said:


> Can't imagine anyone not wanting to where AA specs! I even have them on my Avatar:icon_smile_big:


You and your avatar share more in common. I drew the line at buying the mad scientist coat.


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