# Why I Wear Non-Iron Shirts



## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

I stumbled across and thought you gentlemen might find it humorous.

Other than the fact that_ wearing_ them makes it makes it easier to_ sell _them, Esquire nicely illustrates why (in roundabout terms) I like non-iron shirts:

https://www.esquire.com/style/endorsementshirt0507


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I wear all cotton, non-iron dress shirts for one reason, they look better. My brand of choice is Lands End. People talk about them being hot in the summer but I can't really tell much of a difference.

I have quite a few shirts that must be ironed, primarily OCBDs; but these are worn mainly with jeans. I think the wrinkles look good with the casual nature of jeans, especially when worn with a tweed jacket.

Cruiser


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

I find ironing rather relaxing and don't mind doing it once a week. It is a small price to pay for a more comfortable shirt.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Hmm, only wrinkles I notice are around the arms. Which should ideally be covered by the jacket anyway.

That said, I usually wear non-irons because they require less upkeep. If I'm feeling particularly lazy I can just throw them in the dryer rather than really ironing them. Then again, I'm still a student so I'm not expected to look pristine.


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## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

I agree they tend to look nice, but I always feel like I'm wearing plastic sheeting instead of cotton. My skin is easily irritated by them, too. But then, my skin is easily irritated. If you can wear them without discomfort, I think they make some sense. But... remember that you are wearing chemicals.


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## 3holic (Mar 6, 2008)

Non-iron shirts do have their function in today's hectic world and frazzled lifestyles. But nothing beats a freshly pressed crisp cotton shirt.


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## Finian McLonergan (Sep 23, 2009)

I don't think the article's author has made a good fist of explaining the benefits of a non-iron shirt. He appears to suggest that the main advantage is that you can keep wearing it day aftere day because it won't wrinkle.


> I have worn the damn thing day after day until even I am disgusted.


Ugh.

If you wear a traditional shirt all day, and claim to be a paid-up member of a civilised society, you will have to change it at the end of the day. Perhaps before, if you are going out again in the evening. By then, it will have acquired some wrinkles, but not many. Wash it, hang it up to dry for a day or so, and then iron it while it's slightly damp. As I understand it, the non-iron shirt should be gently tumble dried on a low heat setting in order to activate the non-iron finishes have been incorporated into the cloth. This is where it gains its advantage, i.e., in the time it takes to be washed, dried and ready to wear again. But perhaps I've misunderstood this as I don't use non-iron shirts.

But I can fully understand why people who don't have the time or perhaps the inclination to bother with the palaver associated with properly processing traditional cotton shirts adopt non-iron shirts. It seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me. And a lot better, I think, than handing over your fine cotton shirts to the depradations of a local laundry and its inflatable shirt dummy.

But by focusing the non-iron shirt's ability to look unwrinkled day after day even when not washed he has, unwittingly perhaps, revealed one reason why they are looked on with some suspicion.


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## bimmerzimmer (Jul 28, 2005)

Non-iron shirts. Yeccchhhh. They feel terrible, they look awful. They always tend to look not-quite-pressed when worn with business or formal clothes and too stiff when worn casually. They look like they're made of plastic sheeting. A real cotton shirt is to be worn three ways:

1) Cleaned at a reputable cleaners.
2) Washed and ironed yourself.
3) Casually non-ironed (but hung dry then given a quick tumble to soften the creases).

Professionally manufactured non-iron shirts are to be worn one way:
1) Not at all.

bimmerzimmer


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

bimmerzimmer said:


> Non-iron shirts. Yeccchhhh. They feel terrible, they look awful. They always tend to look not-quite-pressed when worn with business or formal clothes and too stiff when worn casually. They look like they're made of plastic sheeting. A real cotton shirt is to be worn three ways:
> 
> 1) Cleaned at a reputable cleaners.
> 2) Washed and ironed yourself.
> ...


I fully agree, with 1) and 1) being my choices.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Bimmerzimmer, outside of really enjoying your name, I'd like to give you a big fat thumbs up. Non-iron shirts: the vinyl siding of torso coverings.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

And I wanna say more, beginning with my plunging respect for dear friend Cruiser. (Cruz: how could you?) Non-iron cottons look exactly like 60/40. Feel that way too (tho they tend not to fuzz up after washing). The same witches brew into which they're dunked that keeps them from wrinkling also prevents a hot iron from imprinting a sharp crease. Ugh. (I borrowed the ugh from Finian, above, thanks.) Starch, an apparent anathema here to maybe all but me, helps a bit.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I've looked at shirts from both sides now...

From up and down, but still somehow,

It's non-iron illusions I recall,

I really don't know shirts at all!!


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I've looked at shirts from both sides now...
> 
> From up and down, but still somehow,
> 
> ...


Thanks alot, Earworm. Now I'm gonna have to walk around all day with that awful, drippy 60s ditty playing over and over in my head and slowly eating away at whatever shreds and shards of sanity I have left. The horror . . . .:crazy:


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## Preacher (Jul 5, 2008)

I have been wearing non-iron shirts for a while now and I like them. I recently bought several from BB along with one other luxury cotton shirt. I think that the luxury cotton shirt feels nicer but I still prefer the non-irons. When I preach I will sometimes take off my jacket (is was 110 here yesterday) and the non-irons look better.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL. Gentlemen: I submit to you that the best solution to this moral(?) dilemma confronting us all, is to buy and wear nothing but 'must be ironed' shirts and get yourselves an old fashioned wife/significant other...who does laundry and finds ironing to be relaxing, almost a Zen-like experience. In so doing, we will be keeping faith with our true beliefs and still be looking good!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

It's OK to have one, maybe two, non-irons for emergencies. We all, or most of us, find us without an ironed shirt in the morning and behind schedule. But, except for that, they belong on the ash heap. A dress shirt with slight wrinkles in the afternoon is, IMHO, becoming a symbol of status and class.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

About seven years ago BB introduced me to their non-iorn shirts. At first I thought that is was something like the "Brooksweave" of the '60's. It is not. The non-iron shirft that I have are soft breathe well and are an all around good value. Yes I do iron them but when I travel they get washed and hung. I have even had BB make them up in their select shirts.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Bah. Non-iron shirts are the antithesis of style. I don't want to wear plastic, and I don't want to wear a shirt that has been treated to make it look and act like plastic.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

CuffDaddy said:


> I don't want to wear plastic, and I don't want to wear a shirt that has been treated to make it look and act like plastic.


I agree on this point, and this is precisely why I don't wear plastic patent leather shoes; however, my non-iron shirts neither look nor feel like plastic. They are actually quite soft, much softer than a shirt that has been starched. If they weren't I wouldn't wear them either.

Cruiser


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

From Esquire:
If you're the kind of guy who goes to an Italian tailor who makes shirts out of the ass hairs of the endangered Mongolian truffle goat, like certain editors of this magazine, then obviously the L.L. Bean wrinkle-resistant shirt is not for you. It's thick and a bit stiff and not the greatest thing for a hot summer day. When I put it on, I always say a little prayer of gratitude that I'm not cursed (like certain editors of this magazine) with extremely sensitive nipples. 
Read more: https://www.esquire.com/style/endorsementshirt0507#ixzz0veKjmkc9

:icon_smile:
​


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

I wear non-iron shirts about 3/4 of the time. I will admit they do not feel or look as good as a nicely ironed (not starched) shirt. But they don't feel bad to me, either. 

I find them acceptable on days in my office where I know I will likely not have to meet anyone, and I think it's a decent trade-off between less ironing in general, and more flexibility about when I do my laundry and ironing.

However, the main reason why I wear them is because I am uncouth and I wear non-iron shirts twice before washing. Sometimes three times if I can get away with it. I do not sweat much and sitting in an air-conditioned office the shirts really don't get very dirty under those conditions. 

It really cuts down on the laundry and helps me conserve some water and energy.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Wow, you guys need to get out more! Have you ever handled CT non-iron shirts that have been laundered a few times? Silky and nice, you wouldn't know they were non-iron. You are supposed to line hand them, and they come out looking smooth and drapey. BB, JAB and LE non-iron can be a little bit stiffer, but no more so than a lightly starched shirt from the laundry. Actually, I can't tell my recent LE non-iron from some older LE must iron, except for the wrinkles!

I used to get all my shirts pressed way back when I wore suits every day, and I never thought of my must iron shirts as being particularly comfortable (was probably wearing cheap shirts though). If you do wear a suit, all you see is the collar, a bit of the front and a bit of cuffs anyway. Why spend 20 minutes ironing that shirt?

In a business casual office, wearing a nice silky non-iron shirt that doesn't get wrinkled is great! Looks perfectly natural to me. Maybe I am missing something though, since I haven't worn expensive sea island must iron shirts lovingly ironed by hand, but neither of those things is likely to happen.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

What's this 20 minute baloney? A shirt can be ironed quite well in 6-8 minutes, provided the ironer is practiced and the shirt was not allowed to dry while tied in knots.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> What's this 20 minute baloney? A shirt can be ironed quite well in 6-8 minutes, provided the ironer is practiced and the shirt was not allowed to dry while tied in knots.


Ok, you caught me exaggerating, but doesn't Kabbaz have some 40 minute figure for properly ironing a shirt? Playing off that I guess.


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## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

I think there are a lot of things to say about this article. First and foremost is it comes from Esquire. These are the same people pushing the extremely skinny lapels and suits at the moment, so these people are going to be the people who push anything to get advertisers. As such, they aren't to be given too much credibility. I find it odd that they are pushing non-iron shirts at this time because this non-iron _technology_, if one will call it that, has been out since at least the year 2000 (maybe?). Really this technology should be called "wrinkles less" or "easier to iron" because wrinkles will always occur, and no shirt out of the iron or off the clothes line unless it is imbued by the hands of God will look as pressed as an ironed one.

However, it is rather funny to see all these purists clamoring on about the softness of a traditional shirt and the supposed roughness of a non-iron shirt. For those of us who put on a suit and tie everyday to sit in an office everyday, it really comes down to how much time you have on your hand. When you are waking up at six thirty in the morning and then rushing the kids into the car for schools, it really comes down to how much you are really caring about the shirt you put on. The non-iron shirt is really just more reliable compared to its traditional cotton counter part because it never has to be worried about. I wash them with my regular shirts and have my wife iron them as usual. She rather likes it because it is a lot faster to iron. Then when you are carrying kids and backpacks to cars and school, you really have one less thing to care about. I don't think anyone can argue with that.

Lastly, if your skin is so sensitive that the non-iron technology is too harsh, then non-iron is the last thing that should be on your mind.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm sure it takes Mr. Kabbaz 2.3 hours to properly make a PB&J sandwich, too. He's just that meticulous. 

For the rest of us who operate a something other than a micrometric level of precision, making a 3-ingredient sandwich and ironing a shirt should both take less than 10 minutes.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> I'm sure it takes Mr. Kabbaz 2.3 hours to properly make a PB&J sandwich, too. He's just that meticulous.


You nailed it!


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

J.Marko said:


> Wow, you guys need to get out more! Have you ever handled CT non-iron shirts that have been laundered a few times? Silky and nice, you wouldn't know they were non-iron. You are supposed to line hand them, and they come out looking smooth and drapey. BB, JAB and LE non-iron can be a little bit stiffer, but no more so than a lightly starched shirt from the laundry. Actually, I can't tell my recent LE non-iron from some older LE must iron, except for the wrinkles!
> 
> I used to get all my shirts pressed way back when I wore suits every day, and I never thought of my must iron shirts as being particularly comfortable (was probably wearing cheap shirts though). If you do wear a suit, all you see is the collar, a bit of the front and a bit of cuffs anyway. Why spend 20 minutes ironing that shirt?
> 
> In a business casual office, wearing a nice silky non-iron shirt that doesn't get wrinkled is great! Looks perfectly natural to me. Maybe I am missing something though, since I haven't worn expensive sea island must iron shirts lovingly ironed by hand, but neither of those things is likely to happen.


I have a CT n.i. from the very first season they sold them, and several purchased more recently.

The newer ones indeed do have a noticeably softer handle. They are broadcloths, whereas the older one is a twill and does have an ever-so-slightly gummy or plastickey feel to it.

But plainly there have been improvements.

I also like PF n.i.'s b/c due to PF's sizing quirks, I buy their shirts a bit below my usual label size (normally it's 18/36, but in PFs I get 17.5/35--the PF 18/6s are all 'big & tall' hence way too long and full in the body for me). WRT must-iron PFs I have found that excessive shrinkage in collar circumference and sleeve length can be a problem, but this is not so w/ their n.i. ppt oxfords & poplins--they fit perfectly out of the box, and they stay that way (and I send ALL my dress shirts to the laundry).


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

The new CT non-iron shirts also do a very good job of maintaining their creases (if you like a sleeve crease) which I agree can be a problem with some other non-iron shirts. In fact, I think they may even keep a crease better than a regular shirt unless you are willing to use a fair bit of starch.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

I bought my first all-cotton non-iron shirt in the summer of '67, a Van-O-Press from Van Heusen, the inventor, I think, of the process. And whadda coincidence: at the exact same time and with the exact same shirt, I bought my last all-cotton non-iron shirt.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

harvey_birdman said:


> I find ironing rather relaxing and don't mind doing it once a week. It is a small price to pay for a more comfortable shirt.


+1. I find ironing very relaxing also.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

I had some non-iron shirts, but over time my neck became sensitive to them. Maybe it was just the stiffness of the fabric, rather than the special finish. I don't know, but I don't wear them anymore.

They are more convenient, for sure. But for a casual shirt, like the OP suggests? No way--it defeats the whole point. I think there's something to be said for wrinkles and seams that pucker a little.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Peak and Pine said:


> I bought my first all-cotton non-iron shirt in the summer of '67, a Van-O-Press from Van Heusen, the inventor, I think, of the process. And whadda coincidence: at the exact same time and with the exact same shirt, I bought my last all-cotton non-iron shirt.


If we're talking Van Heusen shirts I wouldn't wear them either. There are plenty of really nice, comfortable all cotton non-iron shirts out there. Van Heusen isn't one of them.

Cruiser


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## Beardmidget (Jul 7, 2010)

I hate ironing; my wife will not do it for me. This is why I wear non-irons. My shirts, however, do not feel like plastic- but then they cost me *a lot* more than $25. Make of that what you will.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

The better non-iron shirts are surprisingly comfortable. The cheaper ones are generally OK, if not as comfortable as cotton. I've certainly been wearing a few Brooks non-irons in this heat wave without ill effect.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Anyone that is talking about non iron shirts being "uncomfortable" or "plastic" clearly have not tried on modern non iron shirts. 

Most of my shirts are non iron from Nordstrom and Brooks Brothers, and feel no different than any of my traditional cotton shirts.

I wear then because they wear better over the course of the day - and if I choose to go out after work for a few drinks, I dont look like a bag of wrinkles that has been lying under my desk all day long.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Peak and Pine said:


> *I bought my first all-cotton non-iron shirt in the summer of '67, a Van-O-Press from Van Heuse*n, the inventor, I think, of the process. And whadda coincidence: at the exact same time and with the exact same shirt, I bought my last all-cotton non-iron shirt.





Cruiser said:


> *If we're talking Van Heusen shirts, I wouldn't wear them either.* There are plenty of really nice, comfortable all cotton non-iron shirts out there. Van Heusen isn't one of them


We're talking 43 years ago. Since writing the above, I checked and they did invent the process whereby an all-cotton shirt could be made wrinkle free. I understand that things evolve and devolve. The only experience I have with current non-iron cottons is to see and feel a Brooks Brothers in store. It felt the same to me as 60/40. And, to me, it also looked the same.


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## demondeac (Aug 2, 2010)

I've been looking for a shirt like this ... I'm going to look into this next time I stop in one of their B&M stores.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

The same logic was used to defend cotton/poly blend shirts, too. I suppose, if you're living out of a nylon bag while travelling Europe, utility has its merits - pocket protecters are little wonders as well - very practical.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

I like my LLB non-irons fine, thanx, but now I *REALLY *want a Mongolian Truffle Goat AssHair shirt!!


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Epaminondas said:


> The same logic was used to defend cotton/poly blend shirts, too. I suppose, if you're living out of a nylon bag while travelling Europe, utility has its merits - pocket protecters are little wonders as well - very practical.


 I know the 60/40 blend well. You can't get a lab coat in anything else these days. And I'm saying a good non-iron shirt is a different kettle of fish. In fact, I have a regular cotton shirt from BB that's _less _comfortable than my BB non-irons.


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## jst (Oct 22, 2008)

To put on a well ironed cotton shirt is small morning luxury. I just like this feeling.

I have some non-iron shirts too but I prefer the classic look & feeling of cotton must iron ones. 

Just my $0.02.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

I have never been good at ironing its not my forte, and seeing as the wife is away I have to wear my only non iron shirt a Tyrwhitt. I have had it for over a year and only worn it once so it either says a lot about them or I simply enjoy putting on a well ironed shirt for work.

I will post a comprehensive report if I survive the experience.:icon_smile_big:


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Not sure what "well ironed" and "non iron" have to do with one another.

Non Iron shirts dont mean you never have to iron them....it means they dont need AS MUCH IRONING and that they end the day with less wrinkles than their all cotton alternatives.

All my shirts (cotton and non-iron blends) get sent to the cleaners for washing and pressing.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

mrkleen said:


> All my shirts (cotton and non-iron blends) get sent to the cleaners...


You wear blends? And you send them to the cleaners? You don't just chuck them? (I thought blends were single-use.)


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

*I survived a day in a non iron shirt*

I made it through the day. Although I own one non iron shirt I would not go and buy another or for that matter a cotton blend. I found that walking around at lunchtime I was sweating more around the arms than I would.

I don't think the experience was that traumatic but its not something I would like to repeat.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

I wish we could still buy a good range of Norn Iron shirts.

Keep the shirt factories busy in Stroke City....


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

ajo said:


> I made it through the day. Although I own one non iron shirt I would not go and buy another or for that matter a cotton blend. I found that walking around at lunchtime I was sweating more around the arms than I would.
> 
> I don't think the experience was that traumatic but its not something I would like to repeat.


May I ask what brand of non-iron you were wearing and about when it was purchased? Thanks!


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## Beardmidget (Jul 7, 2010)

J.Marko said:


> May I ask what brand of non-iron you were wearing and about when it was purchased? Thanks!


He was in a Tyrwhitt and he bought it about a year ago. :teacha:


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Isnt by its nature a non-iron shirt a "blend"? A blend of cotton and "chemicals"?

Never understand the problem that people out here have with non iron shirts. 5 or 10 years ago, yes. But not now.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

mrkleen said:


> Isnt by its nature a non-iron shirt a "blend"? A blend of cotton and "chemicals"?


 There's a distinction between a shirt made of blended fabric (i.e. some fibers are cotton while others are polyester) and a shirt made of a single fabric coated in something else. After all, you wouldn't consider a blue shirt to be a blend of white cotton and blue dye.


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## Mr. Knightly (Sep 1, 2005)

It's not really fair to just look at the shirts in the store. They do feel a bit stiff when brand new, but after 5 washes or so, they soften up a bit, and start to look a lot more like cotton. I think regular oxfords also look better in non-iron than pinpoints do, though I'm not sure why this is.

Regarding the blends: they're a different beast entirely. 60/40s are truly gross. On the other hand, I doubt many of you have seen a higher end 80/20 blend. They can look and feel really nice. It makes me wonder if it's possible to go any lower in poly count and still get the wrinkle-free benefit.

As far as my own preferences go, you can put me firmly in the must-iron camp, but I nevertheless wear non-irons quite frequently. If I'm going to do nothing but greet the secretary in the morning before working in my office for the next 12 hours, then I don't need to be flawlessly dressed. It's also a hassle to pick up shirts when the cleaner is always closed by the time you leave work, especially if you take public transit and don't want to pick up your clean shirts in the morning and carry them into the office.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

The non-iron shirts can feel pretty soft--or at least not awful, I agree. The best no-iron shirts I've seen are Nordstrom house brand--real MOP buttons, fairly soft fabric. Tradeoff is that the non-iron finish doesn't work as well as the ubiquitous pinpoint non-iron fabric everyone who sells non-iron shirts seems to sell -- the really stiff, scratchy stuff.

The problem with all the non-iron shirts is that fit contributes to comfort--and non-iron shirts are all off-the-rack. That, and any non-iron shirt is going to be stiffer than cotton without the finish, no matter how "soft" its surface feels. The stiffness exacerbates fit problems.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PedanticTurkey said:


> any non-iron shirt is going to be stiffer than cotton without the finish, no matter how "soft" its surface feels.


I'm not going to disagree with you; however, I've just been standing in the closet with a Lands End pinpoint shirt in each hand, one regular and one non-iron. I really have to struggle to ascertain any significant difference in the stiffness factor, but I suppose there is some. Put even a small amount of starch in the regular one and the stiffness advantage is gone, and the fact is that many folks who wear these shirts often put at least a light starch in them.

Cruiser


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## tnuser (Jun 18, 2010)

"must" iron wrinkles so bad! Just an hour into the day my shirt is filled with wrinkles!


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## cglex (Oct 23, 2006)

I don't buy non-irons, although I do own a few from gifts and purchase mistakes. Non-iron shirts feel odd to me and warmer. They do look better at the end of the day then non-irons. I have yet to come a across a fine non-iron fabric, or even nice non-iron fabric, as they seem to be available only in the cheap stuff geared towards mass produced shirts.

I send all my shirts to the cleaners. They look the best that way and so what if they might not last as long if I spent hours washing and pressing them myself. My time and appearance are worth it.

For the college kid on a budget, including the budget I give my college age kids, a washed and hand ironed non-iron shirt is acceptable. If these shirts don't feel odd to you and you can't spend more than what can be had from Land's End, then non-iron shirts make sense. Fortunately for me, I have never fallen into that category.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

PedanticTurkey said:


> The non-iron shirts can feel pretty soft--or at least not awful, I agree. The best no-iron shirts I've seen are Nordstrom house brand--real MOP buttons, fairly soft fabric. Tradeoff is that the non-iron finish doesn't work as well as the ubiquitous pinpoint non-iron fabric everyone who sells non-iron shirts seems to sell -- the really stiff, scratchy stuff.


+1 on Nordstrom's Smartcare. As much as I dislike talking up the competition, that's an excellent shirt for the money. I don't know about MOP buttons, but for $49.50 every day of the year they are a great shirt (they've got an 8 button front for crying out loud).

We carry a line of nice, 70/30 blended pinpoints that have a surprisingly nice hand for a $35 shirt. They wash well and wear like iron. But as decent as they are, our non-irons are a much softer, more breathable shirt.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

I only buy and use must-irons for more formal occasions. For work, it's a lot easier to use the non-irons. With two jobs, I don't have a lot of spare time for ironing.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

Mr. Mac said:


> +1 on Nordstrom's Smartcare. As much as I dislike talking up the competition, that's an excellent shirt for the money. I don't know about MOP buttons, but for $49.50 every day of the year they are a great shirt (they've got an 8 button front for crying out loud).
> 
> We carry a line of nice, 70/30 blended pinpoints that have a surprisingly nice hand for a $35 shirt. They wash well and wear like iron. But as decent as they are, our non-irons are a much softer, more breathable shirt.


The ones I have are the "John W Nordstrom" label, and if they don't have real MOP buttons I'll eat my hat. I got them a couple years back, though. If they've started using plastic buttons, that's a shame.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

PedanticTurkey said:


> The ones I have are the "John W Nordstrom" label, and if they don't have real MOP buttons I'll eat my hat. I got them a couple years back, though. If they've started using plastic buttons, that's a shame.


I'm referring to their lower price Nordstom label shirts. I have no experience with the higher end JWN line.


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## Politely (May 8, 2008)

This just seems like a pleats/no pleats or cuffs/no cuffs issue. I don't see it as a sartorial problem. Also, I don't understand the difference between ironing + starch vs. non-iron fabric. I wear the normal cotton shirts, but can't agree that the wrinkles are a plus or some badge of honor, particularly at the end of a hot summer day - it's not a particularly good look. Oddly enough, I do think that pants with glued creases, that I've read about on here, are probably going too far. I can't quite put my finger on it, but seems too similar to clip-on ties.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

[QUOTE I can't quite put my finger on it, but seems too similar to clip-on ties.[/QUOTE]

Not to hijack the thread (though I think just about everything that can be said has been)...but did you ever notice how hard it is to find a clip-on tie with a really proper four-in-hand knot:icon_smile_wink:

Sorry--just feeling a bit silly I guess.


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## kinchradio (Jul 19, 2010)

No-Iron shirts feel like they have polyester in them and are not comfortable. Pay extra and use a laundry. My advice


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## jst (Oct 22, 2008)

In fact I own two or three non iron shirts. I iron them anyway If whenever I can. They look much better when properly ironed.


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

non iron uses liquid ammonia finish. i think that is pretty nasty!


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Right on dude! Keep fighting the good fight.


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## Loose On The Lead (Dec 28, 2007)

PedanticTurkey said:


> The problem with all the non-iron shirts is that fit contributes to comfort--and non-iron shirts are all off-the-rack.


BB offers non-iron fabrics in its MTM shirt program.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

Shirtmaven said:


> non iron uses liquid ammonia finish. i think that is pretty nasty!


Actually, I think it's formaldehyde, not that it's any better. But I still wear them for work.


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## BamaCPA (Jan 19, 2008)

I iron my the non-iron shirts that I have because they still don't look good enough out of the wash and dryer for my liking. I like them because they hold their conditioning during the work day to look clean and pressed when you have meetings all day long so that if you still look as pressed at your 4:30 meeting as you did for your 8:30 meeting. Again, I don't wear the same shirt 2 days in a row and I'm not too lazy to iron, just like how they hold up during a days wear, especially during the summer months down here in Alabama. 

I also agree the Author is unbelievably lazy.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

I find myself wondering if the reason for the popularity of no iron shirts is connected with the spread of business casual in the work place. When you wear a coat all day, having your shirt rumple as the day progresses is not as big a deal since all you can really see is the collar, placket and cuffs, and they hold up pretty well with light starch. Same thing as fitted/tailored shirts. The removal of the jacket is changing fashion, which is to be expected.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

J.Marko said:


> I find myself wondering if the reason for the popularity of no iron shirts is connected with the spread of business casual in the work place. When you wear a coat all day, having your shirt rumple as the day progresses is not as big a deal since all you can really see is the collar, placket and cuffs, and they hold up pretty well with light starch. Same thing as fitted/tailored shirts. The removal of the jacket is changing fashion, which is to be expected.


Oddly enough my story is just the opposite. For all of those years that I wore a tie everyday I always removed my jacket upon arrival at the office and usually didn't put it back on until I left in the afternoon. I can't ever remember wearing a jacket while working.

When I retired and took a part-time position in local government I went to a strictly business casual wardrobe generally consisting of khakis, OCBDs, and a sport coat or blazer. For the past five years in this position I have kept my jacket on at all times while working. I'm just now becoming aware of the hell this plays on blazer elbows. Of course I guess some would say that I'm spending too much time leaning on my elbows. :icon_smile_big:

What caught my attention was the few times that I have had a tie on at my current job. Just like when I was working full-time, I removed my jacket without even realizing it.

Cruiser


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

J. Marko, I think there's almost no doubt whatsoever about what you say.

Cruiser's point doesn't really change things. In environments where everyone wears a jacket into the office, there's an unspoken "gentleman's agreement" that one's "real" appearance is with the jacket on. A rumpled shirt at the hips or elbows isn't even noticed, provided it looks as though the shirt was ironed at _some_ point since its last wearing. What matters is the collar and cuff and very top center of the shirt body.

But I think that "agreement" is breaking down a bit in biz-cas offices. And the fact that about half the white-collar workforce is now women might have a little input, too.

Nevertheless, I still consider the agreement to be in effect, and would no more intentionally buy a non-iron shirt (I've had a few, including Nordstrom's, JAB, and BB, and detested every one) than a polyester tie, which would be equally adept at shedding wrinkles and even stains. But I'm just that sort of not-so-old curmudgeon.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

"I wear them because they wear better over the course of the day - and if I choose to go out after work for a few drinks, I dont look like a bag of wrinkles that has been lying under my desk all day long."

"Non Iron shirts dont mean you never have to iron them....it means they dont need AS MUCH IRONING and that they end the day with less wrinkles than their all cotton alternatives."

"All my shirts (cotton and non-iron blends) get sent to the cleaners for washing and pressing."

"However, the main reason why I wear them is because I am uncouth and I wear non-iron shirts twice before washing. Sometimes three times if I can get away with it. I do not sweat much and sitting in an air-conditioned office the shirts really don't get very dirty under those conditions." (with an undershirt too)

+1 to all these sentiments.
I own and have owned many must-iron and non-iron. Of the non-iron i've only tried the JAB and Nordstrom SmartCare and they are fantastic. There are different weaves, textures, etc--they all look and feel great. I honestly can't feel a difference between regular cotton and non-iron with these (all 100% cotton).

Some of this for me depends on my job, who I may be meeting with, the weather, etc. but I am 90% non-iron these days, pressed at the cleaners (light starch) with ironing touch-ups at home.

With that said, for extreme formality (i.e. very important business meeting with suit) I still prefer a heavily starched pinpoint. You can see the difference.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

g.michael said:


> With that said, for extreme formality (i.e. very important business meeting with suit) I still prefer a heavily starched pinpoint. You can see the difference.




I agree that you can see a difference, but I probably do not see the same difference that you see. This is just my personal opinion, mind you, but I've always thought that heavily starched shirts look like crap after about five minutes of wear. When Dwight Eisenhower got married he was wearing a starched white cotton uniform. After he put his uniform on that day he refused to sit or make any unnecessary movements until after the ceremony because he knew what that starched cotton would look like if he actually did anything while wearing it.

Compare Ike's starched cotton uniform to a modern day polyester blend uniform. While you may like the wrinkled cotton, I prefer the wrinkle free of today. But again this is just personal preference. :icon_smile:



















Cruiser


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I prefer regular cotton (it just feels better) but have one non-iron just in case. I don't wear it most of the time. I will say that the technology is pretty impressive now and they feel much better than they used to.

Ironing is no big deal once you teach yourself how and have done it a few times. No wife required. Real men iron their own damn shirts!



amplifiedheat said:


> I know the 60/40 blend well. You can't get a lab coat in anything else these days. And I'm saying a good non-iron shirt is a different kettle of fish. In fact, I have a regular cotton shirt from BB that's _less _comfortable than my BB non-irons.


You can, actually. They just cost more.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Good post, Cruiser. The pictures are indeed telling. And there is little doubt that your aesthetic preferences/tastes are, increasingly, the way the majority feels.

Which makes me want to vomit of course.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

CuffDaddy said:


> Which makes me want to vomit of course.


Of course. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Can't stand the non-iron treatment for shirt and chino fabrics. I love the hand of real cotton fabric and I prefer doing my own ironing, it's not that hard to do.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

This fear or wrinkles is akin to the erstwhile lower middle-class fear (circa. 1960-1980) of wear and tear which led them to plastic covers over rugs, plastic covers on lamp shades, and plastic overs on couches - give me a break. When I see a pressed shirt wth wrinkles, I know somebody is wearing a quality shirt. I don't think twice about it - a wrinkle is the price one pays for wearing natural fabrics. If you're that traumatized by some wrinkles that you think people are scandalized, you need to get a grip.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Epaminondas said:


> This fear or wrinkles is akin to the erstwhile lower middle-class fear (circa. 1960-1980) of wear and tear which led them to plastic covers over rugs, plastic covers on lamp shades, and plastic overs on couches - give me a break. When I see a pressed shirt wth wrinkles, I know somebody is wearing a quality shirt. I don't think twice about it - a wrinkle is the price one pays for wearing natural fabrics. If you're that traumatized by some wrinkles that you think people are scandalized, you need to get a grip.


This fear of innovation is akin to the resistance to electricity, cars, refrigeration and microwave ovens. Turned out to be good ideas, mostly. I know people from eastern Europe that will tell you air conditioning is bad for you.

I understand the nostalgia, and you can wear what you want, but don't put down people that are using the latest technology to improve their look and amount of leisure time.

It is possible to wear a low quality van hussen or worse must iron shirt and have it be wrinkled at the end of the day. Wrinkles are no proof of quality.

I haven't read any posts that indicate people are terrified of wrinkles, just they like the convenience of easy ironing (if at all) and the way it looks. If you are that traumatized by 100% cotton non-iron shirts, you are the one that needs to get a grip.

Sorry if the above comes across as angry, this just hit me the wrong way.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Epaminondas said:


> This fear or wrinkles is akin to the erstwhile lower middle-class fear (circa. 1960-1980) of wear and tear which led them to plastic covers over rugs, plastic covers on lamp shades, and plastic overs on couches - give me a break. When I see a pressed shirt wth wrinkles, I know somebody is wearing a quality shirt. I don't think twice about it - a wrinkle is the price one pays for wearing natural fabrics. If you're that traumatized by some wrinkles that you think people are scandalized, you need to get a grip.


Now, if you favor non-iron shirts - not only are you traumatized and scandalized - but you are clearly from the lower middle class.

Priceless.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Epaminondas said:


> This fear or wrinkles is akin to the erstwhile lower middle-class fear (circa. 1960-1980) of wear and tear which led them to plastic covers over rugs, plastic covers on lamp shades, and plastic overs on couches - give me a break.


What "fear" would that be? How about dislike of wrinkles? Many here dislike notch lapel tuxedos but I doubt that they "fear" them. I don't like okra, but I don't fear okra. And what's with the class comment and exactly what kind of "break" is it that you want folks to give you?



> When I see a pressed shirt wth wrinkles, I know somebody is wearing a quality shirt.


That's not much of a definition of quality. There are some inexpensive cotton shirts out there that don't even begin to approach the quality of a modestly priced Lands End wrinkle free shirt. I bought one a while back at Target and gave it to Goodwill.



> I don't think twice about it


Why should you, anymore than someone should think twice about a non-iron shirt. There are good and bad examples of both type shirts on the market and it's really much ado about nothing.

Cruiser


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I view the non-iron shirt as being of a piece with a broader aesthetic phenomenon. There is an increasing preference for plastic, transparently unnatural "perfection.". It manifests itself in numerous ways and realms. It includes the prevalence of plastic surgery creating 60 year old women with drum-taut faces and anatomically impossible breasts that look like halved grapefruits or cantoloupes glued to their ribcages; real or engineered wood floors covered in thick layers of urethane; fused suit fronts that are as unsupple as body armor; the desire for trousers with no "messy" extra fabric, vertically or horizontally; music with rythm supplied by fancy metronomes and auto-tuned melodies; etc etc... Part of me thinks that it represents a collective effort to impose order on a world that seems increasingly chaotic and beyond our control. At any rate, I find most manifestations of this aesthetic to be unappealing. I would rather accept that the world and life are necessarily mixtures of order and disorder.

Acceptance of this fact and mastery of mediating between order and disorder seems to me to be essence of elegance and style.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> I view the non-iron shirt as being of a piece with a broader aesthetic phenomenon. . .


Now that is the way to express your opinion without quite putting down those who disagree. Well done. I generally share your aesthetic, or rather yours is one of the competing aesthetic positions I hold, although it appears it doesn't hold for me as far as as non-wrinkle shirts. I have not actually worn them much yet, and if they do indeed turn out to be hotter or more uncomfortable, that will probably tip the scale back to must iron and the extra effort of ironing or taking them to be pressed. Some 'old fashioned' things are worth the extra effort (such as polishing real leather shoes) and some things are not (using a washing board instead of a recent front load washing machine). The trick, for me, is to figure out which is which.

I asked my wife if she could feel the difference between the fabric of two shirts (one was must iron, the other non-iron) without telling her the difference. She could feel a difference, she felt the non-iron had a slightly rougher texture, almost a tooth. Very subtle, but I gave her a couple other shirts and she consistently picked out the no-iron and said she felt this roughness. I asked if it felt plasticy, and she said no, but she didn't like it as much. She said the must irons were more like good bed sheets and she liked that. I then explained the controversy, and she once again advised me to spend less time on this forum. Wise woman :icon_smile:


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

CuffDaddy said:


> There is an increasing preference for plastic, transparently unnatural "perfection.".


OK, I'll have to agree with you to a certain extent because that's exactly how I feel about patent leather shoes. I am amazed at how many guys here wear artificially shiny plastic coated shoes rather than take a little effort to shine their own leather. I'm assuming that they think the plastic shine looks better in much the same way that I think my non-iron shirts look better than their counterparts.

I guess at the end of the day it's whatever floats each individual's boat. Probably why Henry Ford stopped painting all of his cars black. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

> Now that is the way to express your opinion without quite putting down those who disagree. Well done. I generally share your aesthetic, or rather yours is one of the competing aesthetic positions I hold, although it appears it doesn't hold for me as far as as non-wrinkle shirts....


Although I have a strong personal preference, this isn't one of the areas where others having an opposite preference affects me at all. There appears to be no danger that the non-iron customers will become so numerous that it will become hard to find OTR natural shirts. Nor is a non-iron shirt affirmatively unpleasant to look at. Will it ever be as beautiful as first-rate natural shirt? No, but there aren't many first-rate shirts around anyway.

At any rate, I don't regard non-iron shirts as tacky or tasteless. I merely regard them as sub-optimally stylish, and a solution in search of a real problem. Is it really such a hardship to spend less than 10 minutes each morning ironing a shirt? (I find it an ideal transition from morning ablutions to work and interaction with the world - repetitive enough to be done without having had any coffee, challenging enough to get the brain turning over at a low level.)



> I then explained the controversy, and she once again advised me to spend less time on this forum. Wise woman :icon_smile:


Here's hoping you ignore her. You are a consistent voice of reason and moderation.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Great analogy, Cruiser. When I started writing my explanation, I had intended to reference the plastic-coated shoes so popular these days, but simply forgot by the time I got to the end of my list of examples.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

cuffdady you didnt listen to your mother did you. 
she told you to keep your elbows off the table.
little brat that you were, you didnt mind her. 

EVERY ONE MIND YOUR MOTHER.
OR YOU WILL PAY FOR IT SARTORIALLY LATER


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

CuffDaddy: Although we like different styles, I most definitely agree with you on all points in your post. 

Cruiser: Patent leather wasn't always plastic coated and, from what I understand, the better ones today still aren't. An oil of some kind.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Jovan said:


> Cruiser: Patent leather wasn't always plastic coated and, from what I understand, the better ones today still aren't. An oil of some kind.


The usually reliable on such things wikipedia entry agrees with you, originally linseed oil based lacquer. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_leather


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> Here's hoping you ignore her.


Well thank you sir, but she is right that I have been a bit obsessed lately with clothing topics. I will be posting later to try to figure out what is wrong with my trousers though, and will likely still post frequently. It would be easier for me to be the voice of reason and moderation if I were to post a bit less often . . .


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Jovan said:


> Cruiser: Patent leather wasn't always plastic coated and, from what I understand, the better ones today still aren't. An oil of some kind.


No it wasn't, but creating it is an extremely labor intensive job which means that it isn't likely to be done to a pair of shoes that aren't already really expensive even without the additional costly patent leather finish. I would bet a dollar to a dime that very few forum participants are wearing non-plastic coated patent leather shoes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean anything negative about someone who likes and wears modern plastic coated patent leather; however, I do see a contradiction when folks who do wear them make fun of guys who wear pre-tied bow ties or non-iron shirts, to give a couple of examples. They are all taking short cuts to an end and one is no better than the others in my mind.

While I shine my own shoes and tie my own bow tie, I do like the convenience and neat appearance of my Lands End non-iron pinpoint dress shirts. With that in mind I can't really be critical of someone who chooses to take their short cut elsewhere with a pair of plastic coated shoes or a pre-tied tie.

As I've said numerous times, whether something is good or bad usually boils down to who's ox is being gored. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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