# Allen Edmonds McTavish



## seanm440 (Feb 28, 2008)

Hi everyone,

I hope that you can provide me with some assistance. I teach middle school students [U.S. History], and I am currently looking for a new pair of shoes.

I typically wear wool slacks to work - in various shades of gray and blue. About a year or so ago I was close to pulling the trigger on the burguny MacNeil shoes that AE had in stock. Unfortunately, I was too late. I like the style of MacNeil, but I'm not crazy about the walnut grain or black calf that AE currently has available. I would love to purchase a pair in cordovan, but I simply cannot afford to do so.

I find the McTavish appealing because it seems similar in style to the MacNeil. The black wax infused version of the McTavish, in particular, is appealing, as it is stylistically similar to the black MacNeil, but not so "severe" or "dressy," and thus more appropriate to my particular line of work.

Given my line of work and the type of pants that I often wear, is the black wax infused leather version of the McTavish a reasonable shoe for me? How about the natural colored McTavish?

Any thoughts on which (if either) of these shoes I would go with are much appreciated. If neither of these choices make sense, what would you recommend for me? I don't mind spending $ on good shoes, but I would really like to keep it below $300 or so.

Thanks for your help.

Sean


----------



## hohne1 (May 12, 2010)

I think the McTavish would be a good shoe for your needs - however, I would lean towards the natural color over the black. That's just a personal thing as I don't wear any black shoes very often and I feel the style and "less formal" intent of the McTavish looks better in the natural. I think the natural will go with the blues and grays you mention.

My local menswear store just got the black McTavish in stock - they aren't bad looking, but I prefer the natural. You might also consider the Elgin - cap toe version of the McTavish - in natural. The Elgin finish isn't as distressed as the McTavish.

The MacNeil is a long wing vs the more tradition wingtip on the McTavish which is essentially the McAllister in "Rough Collection" form - i.e. double sole and distressed finish.

The double sole will take a bit more breaking in, but when broken in, they will be great. The McTavish is on the 5 last which is a bit narrower than other lasts. If you haven't worn the AE 5 last before, you might want to try some on and see if you need to go up a width on the 5 last.

Chris


----------



## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

^^^good advice. Go for the natural


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

I have a pair in the natural waxy leather on their way. I'll be wearing them mostly with chinos and denim. I also picked up a pair of the Big Sur's from the same "Rough" collection.

As has been mentioned it would be a god idea to know how you're going to fit in a #5 last. So if you plan on purchasing them online it might be a good idea to go to a Allen Edmonds dealer and try a pair on. Being quite new it's likely that many dealers won't have a pair in stock. If that's the case try on a pair of one of Allen Edmonds top sellers, the Park Avenue. (they're also on the #5 last)


----------



## seanm440 (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks for your suggestions. I especially appreciate the comment that the Elgin is not as distressed as the McTavish. Given my needs, this may be the deciding factor.

Would I be correct in thinking the the Elgin might be both a bit more professional and a bit more versatile than the McTavish? The "less distressed" making the Elgin more professional, and the ability to wear the natural finish with blues, grays and also khakis (which would not work with the black McTavish)?

Trying on the shoes prior to purchase is not really an option. I've tried on a Strand before, which is also on the number 5 last, and it was comfortable. Therefore, I'm confident that the Elgin or McTavish should fit. I really like the Strand (and MacNeil), but both of those shoes seem to be a bit more formal and business-like for my own needs.

Other thoughts??


----------



## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Florsheim is a notch below AE, but both the Kenmoor and the Veblen are good-looking shoes. The Veblen in particular would be comparably styled with the McTavish. I only mention this if your first choice in shoes doesn't fit.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Florsheim's a good DOZEN notches below AE quality.


----------



## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

*Consider the Elgin*

Thoughtful questions. I agree with one poster that you might consider the Elgin in the natural. I bought a pair, and they are really an eye-catcher. The cap toe lets more of the beautiful natural leather show itself. A bargain, to my mind, at $295.

I have elsewhere trumpeted the virtues of the Grenson Stanley for just the kinds of needs you have. I bought a pair in burgundy and love them more every day. If you have a wider foot, they are especially nice. They have a burnished tan variant that might interest you, and I know that Bonobos stocks them (or did). At $335 they are not such a bargain (cheaper in the U.K. obviously) but still a good price.


----------



## CAG (Jun 27, 2010)

Put me down for Elgin in tan. Those would look great with the blues, greys and khakis (anything but black, really). The Elgin's tan is a bit darker than the McTavish's natural, and I think would give it a slightly more professional look.

And god bless you for being a middle school history teacher.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The various shoe designs mentioned throughout this thread are all designs that would work well in the type of wear situations proposed by the OP and indeed, the natural color tones are inviting. However, the natural colors are decidedly casual and quite frankly can quickly become tiresome in one's shoe rotation. Presently I have several pair in various designs of natural Chromexcel and calf leather, that were worn quite regularly for a brief period and these days, see only occassional service. Natural finishes are great for occassional wear, but the color is not as versatile or as desireable for a daily wear shoe, as one might initially hope. Stick with the McTavish design, but go with the black waxy leather for frequent wear! Good luck in the hunt


----------



## seanm440 (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks for the comments so far. Thanks also for the suggestion to look at Grenson shoes - the Stanley in particular. Grenson is not a brand that I am familiar with. How does the quality of this brand / specific shoe compare to Allen Edmonds?

I do love the style of the Grenson stanley in burgundy calf https://www.bonobos.com/stanley.html
This is, I think, the look that I am going for. Would this shoe do well with greys, blues and tans? Is this a better or worse choice than one of the AE's I've been looking at?

Another angle to consider, Allen Edmonds has the McTavish in black or natural available in a second from the shoe bank for $250 (not sure about the Elgin). Is the Grensen, at $85 more than the McTavish a wise choice or a poor one?

Obviously, I'm not very good at making choices about these things. I am a real beginner when it comes to being attentive to my clothing choices. Therefore I am truly grateful for all of the help that has been provided to me.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
To my eyes, burgundy is the most versatile shoe color you can go with, although I am not familiar with Grensons and therefore am in no position to recommend whether the Grensons are worth the additional $85 it would cost (beyond the price of the McTavish seconds) that it would cost to put a pair on your feet. Do they have any burgundy MacNeil seconds in your size at the Shoebank?


----------



## Aussie (Aug 8, 2011)

If it's cordovan you want, go and get it!! 

I have had very good luck purchasing vintage Florsheim Imperials in Cordovan for giveaway prices! (note that new Florsheim is awful DO NOT BUY - but vintage Imperial quality is unsurpassed)., I can afford to buy new but I just love the look of true, quality, vintage clothing; especially footwear!

But wether new or vintage; get Shell Cordovan! Since you will likely wear them daily; money well spent! You will never regret the purchase!


----------



## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

I would hear-out the comments by eagle2250 in any consideration of the Grenson shoe versus the AE.

Firstly, burgundy is an extremely versatile color, and the natural is NOT. I find perhaps more occasions to wear my natural Elgins than might eagle2250, but I live in a hot climate in which white and linens are more common in professional settings and in which flashy clothing is not manifestly unprofessional. In a smaller, more conservative, and colder community, the bright leather of the Elgin with its straw-colored stitching would probably find its way out of the closet less often. They simply stand out too much, go with fewer fabrics, and are more or less out of commission in the Fall and Winter. 

Burgundy can go up or down far more readily. As for Grenson's quality, they are an established Northampton make but not top of the line. The Stanley is part of their Rushden line, as opposed to their more traditional Rose line (pricepoints are about 300 and 400 US dollars, respectively--far less than Crockett and Jones or Church's but about on par with Loake, and that's where I would place them). AE's higher end calfs and, of course, cordovans are better shoes, bottom line, but Grenson's Rose line is comparable. I am not sure the quality of the Rushden line is as different as the prospective buyer. The Rushden line is aimed at the younger man, with a younger man's tastes, a younger man's aversions to shoes that require breaking in, and a younger man's pocketbook. They are top grain calf, fully leather lined, and have a stacked leather heel and double-leather sole. And yet they are light (not a Church's or C&J slab of beef). They are waxy and don't need a lot of polishing, if you are more likely to wear them with jeans, but they do polish up well and look good with suits and wool trousers, too.

Here are some other pluses. Bonobos has a great return policy, they will have them to you in days, and their markup is a fair reflection of the cost of importing them. There are few good English shoes about which the same can be said. Also, AE has nothing that straddles the line between cool/continental and formal/professional in the way the Stanley does except the Elgin, which is the brainchild of a British designer. That said, the white stitching makes them perhaps too cool for every suit-wearing occasion. Not a problem for me, but if I am going to meet with government types I am more likely to wear my trusty AE McNeils in black with my gray suit, if you catch my drift.

Here is THE thing. These shoes come in a British G fitting only, which means they are wide. British F (normal) fittings are wider than American D fittings, and so if the British F is a D+ the G is an American E-. If you have a normal foot, you will want a Tacco insole, and if you have a narrow foot the Stanley is a bad option.


----------



## seanm440 (Feb 28, 2008)

Angeland, I really appreciate your thorough response. My dream shoe would be a shell cordovan MacNeil. Unfortunately, my finances will not allow this -- at least not at retail prices. Last year AE was selling a pebbled grain burgundy MacNeil which I unfortunately did not purchase. I'm having trouble because I've lived in a world of inexpensive shoes (I currently wear Bass Weejuns and a 20 year old pair of black Nunn Bush wingtips to work). Therefore, if I am going to spend $250 + on a pair of shoes I really want to make sure that I can the right ones.

That being said, the black waxed McTavish seemed attractive because of the AE quality combined with a design & color that would be professional enough to wear to my middle school without appearing to be too formal (many of my colleagues wear khakis with polo shirts -- as a shirt and tie guy who often wears an odd jacket, I already look a bit out of place!). The Elgin seems to have the same qualities, but its light color would seem to not be the best choice for a guy who lives in Buffalo, New York (it seems to be more of a warn weather shoe). 

I do really like the look of the Grenson. Based on the few comments that I have read, it seems to be a quality shoe. I am a bit concerned about its width (I wear a 10D) and I don't really like the idea of having to buy an insole for a shoe that cost $300+.

Given all of this, perhaps my best strategy is to hold out for a different longwing. I'm not really an ebay guy, but become one might be an option. I'll contact the shoebank and see what might be available. I was tempted to purchase the walnut grain MacNeil that AE is currently selling, but decided that the color would not be a good match for me.

Are there any other burgundy colored shoes that might be good candidates for me to look at? If so, I would appreciate your suggestions.

Sean


----------



## hohne1 (May 12, 2010)

I'm going to throw a suggestion out there - you can take it however you feel, I'm just throwing it out there.

How about the AE San Marcos in pebbled brown? My local menswear store has a pair in stock and I am seriously considering them. I think they bridge the gap between business and casual well. They look like they can do jeans as well as most slacks except your suits or fine wool slacks. I really like the pebbled finish also. And the rubber sole might be a plus in the Buffalo winters. And the brown is dark enough that it should go well with the colors you mention.

Just a suggestion - good luck in your search. And I want to echo CAG - thank you for being a teacher. Our future is in your hands and we appreciate all you do.

Chris


----------



## johnnyboomboombuck (May 24, 2008)

I own the McTavish in the waxed natural (not sure of the _exact _color_). _I teach science and am in the lab all day and cannot compliment them enough. They are in a rotation of several AE shoes, but rest assured about the fit and comfort, as well as the texture.

Also, I agree with the previous post from the gentleperson who suggested going for it re: the cordovan. You will not regret the decision in the long run...


----------



## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

I agree with the poster directly above. He is essentially saying that not buying the shoes you want, even at cost savings now, will cost you more in the long run because you will only discard the shoes you do buy now when you (inevitably) acquire the ones you want.

But I hear you. I would point out that while the price of the McTavish is attractive, it is still harder to dress down a Balmoral than a Derby, and, more importantly, all the AE McNeil is a Derby, and that sounds like what you want. I would listen to yourself there.

There are a bunch of English makers that have Derby brogues in that bottom of the top or top of the middlin price range you are looking for, and there are few American equivalents--and, as you say, you want to know what you are buying. There is one option however . . .

EVERYONE on this board will loathe this option, but an option it remains. Drop by a good old Florsheim store in the mall and try on the Imperial Kenmoor in the polished black or burgundy longwing variant. We all know the problems with Florsheim shoes these days, but they are still a well made shoe--not a particularly well made shoe, but good enough, perhaps, for what you are looking for. They look like AE McNeils and they will last far longer than it will take you to save up or win the lottery, and you can try them on in the store and buy them for a three digit number beginning with a 2 and sometimes even a 1. The adage that a $200 shoe will last twice as long as $100 dollar shoe but a $300 shoe will last a lifetime still applies, but sometimes a man just wants a new pair of shoes and doesn't want to spend more than $300.


----------



## johnnyboomboombuck (May 24, 2008)

Ageland,
I don't loathe the opinion. It is yours and it is valued. Having said that, I moved on to the later part of your last paragraph: The OP, as you intimated, must purchase his new shoes based on reality (or so I took, reading both between the lines and amongst them). Perhaps, someday, he will be able to purchase the AE cordovans at the higher price point. Until then, the important point is to dress as well as he is able.


----------



## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

Too bad he is a 10 D and and not a 10.5 D. Look at these beauties, at a beautiful price:


----------



## seanm440 (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks again for the comments. I've decided that it probably makes the most sense for me to go with what I really want -- which is a wingtip or a plain toe blucher in cordovan. I am a bit cautious about ebay, but what do you think of these?? 

The more I look at the AE website, the more I am liking their Leeds. In burgundy shell these seem to be a shoe that can do almost anything. Would this be a good choice for me?

I do appreciate the comments about teaching. I've been at it almost 20 years and can honestly say that 99.9% of the time I feel as though I would do the job for free. It is an honor and a privilege to help students learn about our nation's heritagel


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Any shoe you get will probable be the best in the school. In choosing, consider the following: balmorals are more formal than bluchers, the less decorated the shoe the more formal it is, black is more formal then brown, (cordovan/oxblood color shoes are at best an American hybrid, at worst a reason for the British to look down their noses).

IMO inside an academic in black shoes is a businessman trying to get out. Would the most admired academic of the 20th century wear black shoes? I think not.

https://www.indy4.info/about-indiana-jones.php


----------



## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

*Leeds, eBay item*

Those Aldens are a good buy at $225, but only you know how much that poor repair on the stitching will bother you. These retail at about 600. That price reflects the difference in cost between calf and shell, and the obligatory 10% premium you pay for the word "Alden." A burgundy shell version of Leeds can be had new for $550.

I recently bought a pair of AE leads in black calf and find them to be, as one expects from AE, rock solid. I think I bought mine for $325 or so. You can't go wrong.

For the $100 delta, I would go with the Leeds, especially if there is an AE shop near you where you could try it on first. That way you would also get the flannel travel bags AE includes with the purchase!


----------



## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

Replied too fast. Didn't notice that those in the picture were AE Leeds with Alden shoe trees (was going to say the throat line in the picture is not the same as the new Alden plain toe blucher). I agree with the poster who said a black dress shoe is not that easy to work into an academic setting for the simple reason that it is most at home with a suit. You would never find a shell burgundy blucher for $225, and if AE will repair them properly you have quite a shoe there for a good price. I was on AE's page and noticed they don't sell a burgundy Leeds in calf. Florsheim has one, and while Florsheim is not AE, it is vastly better than almost any make NOT typically endorsed on this forum. And they come new for $225. .


----------



## Aussie (Aug 8, 2011)

Angeland said:


> Too bad he is a 10 D and and not a 10.5 D. Look at these beauties, at a beautiful price:


I'm a 10.5 D.. :biggrin2: So I bought them! :devil:


----------



## Aussie (Aug 8, 2011)

Get what you want; don't be afraid of eBay either! 90% of my shoes came from eBay.. Just nail down the maker / size / style.. For me it's Vintage Florshiem Imperial Derby Shoes.. Pre 1992.. I just scored another pair of cordovan longings.. And a pair of tan calf.. Really, get what you want; if you buy quality you will NEVER regret your purchase!


----------



## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

*One last suggestion*

You owe me one, Aussie. In this one respect I envy the world of size 9-11. One can more easily find them. For so many of the shoes we like to talk about in this forum, US13/UK12/EU47 are produced in very limited numbers, and they are hard to find used. Congrats on that great pair.

Sean, one last suggestion and I will stop beating this dead horse. I noticed today that Wolverine has a 1000 Mile shoe, perhaps made exclusively for Orvis, but I am not sure:

So versatile, and can go with much of what the well dressed scholar is likely to wear. Wolverine and Red Wing are somewhat the unsung heroes of good American shoes, mostly because we think of them as work boot manufacturers. But look out AE and (especially) Alden because with the RW Beckman chukka and the Red Wing 1000 Mile shoe, these two venerable shoemakers are clearly trying to cross over into the world of dress casual


----------

