# What is "drop" in a suit?



## Stavros (Nov 2, 2008)

I routinely see that measurement mentioned in some (but not all) online for sale suit listings. I ran a search on AAAC and no solid definition came up. What exactly is it?

Many thanks in advance,

Stavros


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

It's the difference between jacket and trouser measurement - for example, my size is 40L/32, so I have an 8 inch drop.

I think standard drop is 6 inches (eg. 44R/38); an 8 inch drop is called an "athletic fit" or "athletic cut"; once you depart from those drops, you're looking at heavy tailoring, suit separates or MTM/bespoke (ie. very muscular could have a 10 inch drop, etc.)

DH


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Dhaller said:


> It's the difference between jacket and trouser measurement - for example, my size is 40L/32, so I have an 8 inch drop.
> 
> I think standard drop is 6 inches (eg. 44R/38); an 8 inch drop is called an "athletic fit" or "athletic cut"; once you depart from those drops, you're looking at heavy tailoring, suit separates or MTM/bespoke (ie. very muscular could have a 10 inch drop, etc.)
> 
> DH


FWIW a colleague of mine who used to work in men's retail for years told me that at 44 and above the _actual_ standard drop is 5 inches even if it says 6 because in practice the majority of men who are 44 or above are at least somewhat overweight.


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## Mongo (May 9, 2008)

StephenRG said:


> FWIW a colleague of mine who used to work in men's retail for years told me that at 44 and above the _actual_ standard drop is 5 inches even if it says 6 because in practice the majority of men who are 44 or above are at least somewhat overweight.


You mean 44 waist, not jacket, I presume?


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Stavros said:


> I routinely see that measurement mentioned in some (but not all) online for sale suit listings. I ran a search on AAAC and no solid definition came up. What exactly is it?
> 
> Many thanks in advance,
> 
> Stavros


Stavros:

If you had your own down-loadable *The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes* :icon_smile_big: you could instantly check the Suit Chapter and find:
*The Drop* That is the difference between the size of a suit jacket and the waist of the matching pants. The usual drop is 6 inches. For example, if the jacket is a size 40, the pants that go with that jacket will have a 34-inch waist.​


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

I always thought it referred to the difference in the chest of the coat and the waist of the coat. Is drop also applicable to that?


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

Standard drop kills me and I find that selection of Athletic Cut in RTW is normally limited. I'm 44 Chest these days and wear 35 pants - very tough to get something that fits well off the rack. 

I've solved my shirt issue with Joe Hemrajani in an affordable way (17 Neck slim fit shirts still too baggy). Hoping to order MTM suit from Joe by year-end..

In the meantime - any recommendations for a RTW suit that will fit my needs? Want to keep it inexpensive (just a stop-gap measure) - Brooks Outlet, JOS Banks, Syms, department stores, etc... Anyone still do suit separates?


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Mongo said:


> You mean 44 waist, not jacket, I presume?


44 jacket starts treading into overweight territory... 44 waist is just flat-out huge 

I can certainly see how 44+ jacket size would start correlating with a smaller drop.

DH


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Mike147 said:


> Standard drop kills me and I find that selection of Athletic Cut in RTW is normally limited. I'm 44 Chest these days and wear 35 pants - very tough to get something that fits well off the rack.
> 
> I've solved my shirt issue with Joe Hemrajani in an affordable way (17 Neck slim fit shirts still too baggy). Hoping to order MTM suit from Joe by year-end..
> 
> In the meantime - any recommendations for a RTW suit that will fit my needs? Want to keep it inexpensive (just a stop-gap measure) - Brooks Outlet, JOS Banks, Syms, department stores, etc... Anyone still do suit separates?


Brooks Brothers does suit separates.


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## Mongo (May 9, 2008)

Dhaller said:


> 44 jacket starts treading into overweight territory... 44 waist is just flat-out huge
> 
> I can certainly see how 44+ jacket size would start correlating with a smaller drop.
> 
> DH


I'm a 48L with a 41 waist (on the way to 40). I'm big (280 lbs) - I'm not particularly fat.

When I was younger, I wore a 46L with a 33 waist. Not exactly chubby.


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## rcordrey (Jun 12, 2009)

I agree with the sentiments about troublesome drops. At 6'3" and 230lbs, I wear 44L with a 34 waist, which is extremely hard to manage. I buy many separates...


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Mongo said:


> I'm a 48L with a 41 waist (on the way to 40). I'm big (280 lbs) - I'm not particularly fat.
> 
> When I was younger, I wore a 46L with a 33 waist. Not exactly chubby.


Naturally there are factors like height (sounds like you are quite tall, like 6'8" if indeed you aren't fat) that mitigate things, but for they typical American man (5'8" - 5'10") a 44 is overweight, unless they're very broad-shouldered and muscular.

DH


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## Mongo (May 9, 2008)

Dhaller said:


> Naturally there are factors like height (sounds like you are quite tall, like 6'8" if indeed you aren't fat) that mitigate things, but for they typical American man (5'8" - 5'10") a 44 is overweight, unless they're very broad-shouldered and muscular.
> 
> DH


6' 2". And indeed I'm not very fat.

But I'm thick. Very thick (some times more than others).


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## Single malt Mark (Apr 11, 2009)

I have a friend who was a Marine and remains quite fit.

I believe his chest is 52/54" and waist about 32/34".


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

I'm 6'4" with a 44L and 39" waist. BMI hovers between 24.9 and 26 through the year. So, mildly overweight, but not someone you would point out as fat.

However, the drop isn't necessarily dependent on fat but also muscle and body shape. Some guys have massive rib cages and sickly little legs and hips. Some guys have massive hips and thin ribcages. The drop in suits OTR are an approximate for the average, well proportioned, body shape.

Weight lifters, desk sitters, couch potatoes, joggers, etc. have drops above and below normal.



StephenRG said:


> FWIW a colleague of mine who used to work in men's retail for years told me that at 44 and above the _actual_ standard drop is 5 inches even if it says 6 because in practice the majority of men who are 44 or above are at least somewhat overweight.


Yep, this is true quite often. Though, it depends on the tailor/manufacturer/company. They even reduce it to a 4" drop when you get above size 52, 54, or something in that area. I think it is over a 50" waist.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Mongo said:


> You mean 44 waist, not jacket, I presume?


No - jacket. If someone wears a 44_R_, then they're probably not that tall...


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

rcordrey said:


> I agree with the sentiments about troublesome drops. At 6'3" and 230lbs, I wear 44L with a 34 waist, which is extremely hard to manage. I buy many separates...


Where do you buy separates? Other than Brooks?


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## rcordrey (Jun 12, 2009)

Mike147 said:


> Where do you buy separates? Other than Brooks?


I'm still quite young, so many of my purchases have come at Macy's, as well as some purchases at Off 5th, Nordstrom's Rack, etc., when I can find suitable, pardon the pun, separates.


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## tomboys (Apr 21, 2009)

Stavros said:


> I routinely see that measurement mentioned in some (but not all) online for sale suit listings. I ran a search on AAAC and no solid definition came up. What exactly is it?
> 
> Many thanks in advance,
> 
> Stavros


Andy's information is correct. The drop of a suit corresponds to the difference in inches between the chest of the coat and the waist of the pants. The confusion becomes when people compare suit sizes which tend to be closer to the actual inches around the chest and pant sizes which can be marked with a size that can be as much as 3 inches smaller than the actual inches of their waists.

For instance, I wear a 44R coat. I have measured my chest with a fabric tape measure and it's right around there (43 6/8ths to be exact). My pant size is a 32. So, based on that, I would have a 12" drop, right? Actually, that is wrong. And, it's because of this erroneous measuring technique that causes many people to end up thinking they need MTM or slim-cut suits when they don't.

The correct way to determine your drop is to measure your chest and your natural waist with a fabric tape measure. Going back to my numbers, I have 44" chest. However, when I measure my natural waist (right at or slightly below my navel), my waist measures 35". So, my "real" drop is 9".


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## upnorth (Jun 18, 2007)

I think all of you are misunderstanding the true meaning. There are only two acceptable definitions of drop (as used in suits):

1) A drop in a suit refers to a situation when the chest of the jacket fits perfectly but the trousers are so loose that they slide down or "drop" to the floor. 

2) The second and lesser used definition happens when a prospective customer visits a high end men's clothing store and sees the price tag of $30,000 or more on a vicuna suit, hence the drop of the jaw.


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## hmas (May 31, 2009)

Dhaller said:


> 44 jacket starts treading into overweight territory... 44 waist is just flat-out huge
> 
> I can certainly see how 44+ jacket size would start correlating with a smaller drop.
> 
> DH


Die. Its your fault I can't wear OTR.

48 chest with 40 waist, altho Im hoping to hit 38 waist soon (chest will remain stable judging by past experience). Why must all the little people be so obsessed with tormenting their biggers...


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## hmas (May 31, 2009)

JAB, MW< and BB all sell suit separates. Every now and then you will stumble across an athletic fit with an 8 inch drop; I once actually came across an athletic fit with a 10 inc drop.

If you go online there are numerous sites that will let you mix and match the same pattern with greater than 6" drops.

Granted past a certain point, just go MTM.


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## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

Even separates don't work if you are athletic.

I wear a 44 short but I have a 33 waist. The separates give me a good fit on the slacks, but the jacket needs extensive tailoring to make it fit. Even then, if you have well-developed deltoids the shoulders look like I have wings hovering over cantaloupes.

In college I had a 42" jacket, and a 29" waist. There were no "separates" but at Macy's near my home the tailor would "re-cut" my slacks to fit. (Taking them in at the waist would leave me with two pockets in the center of my back suitable for a pen in each.)

I needed to get one of the slacks let out a bit a couple of years later and the local tailor said that the slacks were never re-cut but that the Macy's tailor had swapped slacks from another suit.

But the fit of the jacket remains a problem.

Even when I had a suit made custom by the "Custom Shop" years ago the fit was a disaster. The salesman spend more effort trying to convince me that the ill-fitting suit fit well, than he spent taking the original measurements to begin with.

I went for another fitting with a local tailor (they order the suits after taking the measurements), but he took insufficient measurements for a good fit and I backed out before placing the order.


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## JayGatsby (Mar 30, 2009)

Packard said:


> Even separates don't work if you are athletic.
> 
> I wear a 44 short but I have a 33 waist. The separates give me a good fit on the slacks, but the jacket needs extensive tailoring to make it fit. Even then, if you have well-developed deltoids the shoulders look like I have wings hovering over cantaloupes.
> 
> ...


Exactly. Suit separates are good if all you need are pants that fit. The problem is that the jackets are still cut to fit a waistline much larger than the pants you buy. So essentially, you look like you're wearing a tent or a bag. MTM is nice, but most quality MTM (even on sale) will run you $700+, which for many folks is a deal-breaker. I understand all of the arguments that a good suit is a worthwhile investment because it can/will last a lifetime, but most people can't/won't keep a suit that long. The main reason is that they age and their waistlines don't stay as trim as they once were (e.g., can't work out as often because of career, kids, etc...). So a MTM suit will be worn for only 4-5 years (if that), and new suits will have to be bought. Perhaps at that point an OTR suit will be fine, but maybe not.

Personally, I want a suit that looks good on me now, without the high cost of MTM to accommodate my athletic frame. I can't believe that some of the manufacturers of suit separates haven't figured this out yet.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

hmas said:


> Die. Its your fault I can't wear OTR.


+1 on the first part. :icon_smile_big:


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## Mithras (Apr 21, 2006)

Dhaller said:


> 44 jacket starts treading into overweight territory... 44 waist is just flat-out huge
> 
> I can certainly see how 44+ jacket size would start correlating with a smaller drop.
> 
> DH


I wear a 44R and have the same problem with not enough drop.

I'm just over 5'10" and in the low 190's. I have a big chest and 20.5in shoulders. Many 44R's don't even fit my shoulders (many are 19.5 in across).

But I have a 35in waist.

Now cutting 3 inches out of the pants isn't too big of a deal. When I was younger and rowed & sailed competitively though I had to wear a 46R as my chest, back and shoulders were that much larger. It made wearing a suit an ordeal. Pants never fit, but even worse was the cut of the jackets. They either made me look like I was 40lbs heavier than I was (and I was 220lbs at the time!) due to all the empty space around my midriff or they made me look like a caricature of a Mafioso with the 3 foot wide shoulders and a wasp waist. That's why I turned to more British cuts with waist suppression but still a flared skirt. It showed that I wasn't fat, but didn't make me look like an inverted triangle.

I think you can be overweight at nearly any chest size. I regularly see guys with scrawny little chests and big guts below them&#8230;


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## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

One day Ryan Seacrest will flaunt his 32" chest along with a 38" waist. 

But right now he probably can take any suit right off the rack and look fine.

In my opinion men should not be allowed to graduate high school without some semblence of a chest and arms.

Math classes will just get you so far...


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## JayGatsby (Mar 30, 2009)

Packard said:


> One day Ryan Seacrest will flaunt his 32" chest along with a 38" waist.
> 
> But right now he probably can take any suit right off the rack and look fine.
> 
> ...


Don't forget about the "wheels" (legs). I can't stand seeing men who are all arms and chest, but walk around on legs that belong to a flamingo.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2020)

I have a 13" to 15" drop (depending on if I am hitting the gym) I have never been able to buy suits, or, surprisingly, pajamas. BTW, this isn't enormous muscles, it is just the shape of my body. 

I'm going to spend time in Hoi An, Vietnam next winter where everything is bespoke and cheap. For once in my life, my clothes will fit me. I definitely sympathize with the guy and baggy shirts. If the top of it fits, the bottom will fit two of me.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

_Drop_ is the difference between jacket SIZE and trouser MEASUREMENT. A jacket's size is customarily bigger than its measurement.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Steve Smith said:


> _Drop_ is the difference between jacket SIZE and trouser MEASUREMENT. A jacket's size is customarily bigger than its measurement.


No, a jacket's measurement is typically bigger than its size. A size 40 jacket these days typically measures about 42 inches around the chest but is designed to fit someone with a 40-inch chest. A US/UK drop 6 is designed to fit someone who measures 6 inches less in the waist than in the chest. An IT drop 7 is roughly equivalent to a US drop 6, since it's measured in cm and halved. 7 cm x2 is 5.5 inches.

Drop is more are about the size of the person the garment is meant to fit rather than any garment measurements. Drop affects not only the size of the trousers relative to the jacket but also the measurement of the jacket's waist relative to the jacket's chest. You can have a drop 6 suit with high-rise trousers and a drop 6 suit with low-rise trousers, and the low-rise trousers are going to have a larger waist measurement because they are designed to fit around a wider part of the body: the hips instead of the waist.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Matt S said:


> No, a jacket's measurement is typically bigger than its size. A size 40 jacket these days typically measures about 42 inches around the chest but is designed to fit someone with a 40-inch chest. A US/UK drop 6 is designed to fit someone who measures 6 inches less in the waist than in the chest. An IT drop 7 is roughly equivalent to a US drop 6, since it's measured in cm and halved. 7 cm x2 is 5.5 inches.
> 
> Drop is more are about the size of the person the garment is meant to fit rather than any garment measurements. Drop affects not only the size of the trousers relative to the jacket but also the measurement of the jacket's waist relative to the jacket's chest. You can have a drop 6 suit with high-rise trousers and a drop 6 suit with low-rise trousers, and the low-rise trousers are going to have a larger waist measurement because they are designed to fit around a wider part of the body: the hips instead of the waist.


Correct. I transposed the two main terms there. Of course a jacket measurement is bigger than its size.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Steve Smith said:


> Correct. I transposed the two main terms there. Of course a jacket measurement is bigger than its size.


Well, I have seen some size 40 jackets that measure 39 inches. In the past decade we've seen some extremely small fits. But this is not the standard.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

Drop has always confused me, and is not a useful measurement IMO.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

delicious_scent said:


> Drop has always confused me, and is not a useful measurement IMO.


It's just a guideline, a coarse guide which is of use if you don't know how to go deeper with size and measurement. And most don't. Most have no concept of using measurements to predict whether an item of clothing will fit. I provide neck-sleeve and P2P measurements on shirts and give instructions to compare the measurements to a properly fitting shirt, and yet I still get questions like "Is this a Medium?"


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Matt S said:


> Well, I have seen some size 40 jackets that measure 39 inches. In the past decade we've seen some extremely small fits. But this is not the standard.


I would contend that a jacket which measures 39 inches in the chest is not a 40. It may be labeled a 40 but it is not a size 40. I have seen dress shirts with the wrong size label sewn in. A 15-33 label does not make a 16.5-35 shirt a different size. And of course that jacket you refer to may have been altered


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Why has this become so difficult? A jacket that claims size 42R unaltered, might in fact measure 44-45 chest, 41,42 vanity fit ( another little known description )waist . Every manufacturer will have their own drop meas. . Generally, ( read generally )a suit with 6" drop means just that. A 42 reg suit will have trouser waist o f 36 +-< . Now, there's the slim, skinny, extra slim and really skinny and ridiculous low rise, mid rise, around the pubic area fit have no place in my world. Drop= high number -< low number in classic fits, give or take. The math I was taught didn't include forced results.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Steve Smith said:


> I would contend that a jacket which measures 39 inches in the chest is not a 40. It may be labeled a 40 but it is not a size 40. I have seen dress shirts with the wrong size label sewn in. A 15-33 label does not make a 16.5-35 shirt a different size. And of course that jacket you refer to may have been altered


I was referring to 'slim fit' suits that are made that way, intended to be too small on someone by traditional standards. Garments of the same size can be intended to fit differently on people of the same size. Just compare today's fashions with those of 25 years ago. At that time a size 40 might have measured 4 inches larger than 40 inches rather than the -1 to 1 inch larger you'll see today. It reflects on how fashions says clothes should fit.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Matt S said:


> I was referring to 'slim fit' suits that are made that way, intended to be too small on someone by traditional standards. Garments of the same size can be intended to fit differently on people of the same size. Just compare today's fashions with those of 25 years ago. At that time a size 40 might have measured 4 inches larger than 40 inches rather than the -1 to 1 inch larger you'll see today. It reflects on how fashions says clothes should fit.


⇧ This is so spot on. I have a few sport coats from the early '90s that are 40Ls that are several inches wider across the chest than present-day 40Ls from the same companies (Brooks and Polo). Also, those early '90s sport coats are wider/bigger everywhere, have larger armholes, wider sleeves, etc.

I don't wear the skinny stuff today, but today's slim fits works well for me (6'1" 150 lbs) as today's slim cuts (again, not the skinny stuff) look on me like the normal fits of old looked on most people.

In truth, I would have to alter those early '90s sport coats to even wear them today as, otherwise, I'd look like an extra that just stepped off the set of "Friends."


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