# Blog Post: What is the Preppiest Store



## HoyaSaxa (Jan 30, 2006)

Came across this post this morning and thought it was worth sharing here:

The Daily Prep: What is the Preppiest store? A list and ranking of Top 10 Preppy Stores, 2010


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Nice Blog!!

Bet you won't find a tramp stamp on that chick!!


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Nice Blog!!
> 
> Bet you won't find a tramp stamp on that chick!!


Ummmm, unlikely a woman like Muffy would ever be referred to as "a chick".:biggrin:


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

*STORES??*

Unfortunately most all of what "Muffy" mentions are "brands", not stores. Stores are Ben Silver, O'connells, Cable Car Clothiers, Eddie Jacobs, Eljo's and some that are no longer with us such as Max's Menswear in Charlestion, Tate-Brown in Charlotte and other greats that are discussed on this forum from time to time.; While some may have storefronts, actual stores as mentioned here carry many brands from a certain style that is of a like kind.
just my $.02
Tom


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

fishertw said:


> Unfortunately most all of what "Muffy" mentions are "brands", not stores. Stores are Ben Silver, O'connells, Cable Car Clothiers, Eddie Jacobs, Eljo's and some that are no longer with us such as Max's Menswear in Charlestion, Tate-Brown in Charlotte and other greats that are discussed on this forum from time to time.; While some may have storefronts, actual stores as mentioned here carry many brands from a certain style that is of a like kind.
> just my $.02
> Tom


Well put. Not a great blog post with very little other than widely accepted group think. I don't rate the blog highly--I am not trying to stir controversy. It just ins't something i would consult for wisdom. Some very nice snaps, though.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

That woman has it out for J. Crew.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Memphis88 said:


> That woman has it out for J. Crew.


I thought that part, and the Volvo were pretty good.

I'd like to suggest she tear into phoney breasted women on power boats vs. the natural looking sailor babes!!

Or maybe I'll just pick up the slack!!


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Not sure why she ranks Lilly so low, either. Takes a shot at LL Bean Signature, too. Judging by her writing and the picture of her, this lady seems every unhappy and downright mean. The funniest thing to me is that she includes Coach and Vineyard Vines in her list as runners-up. Seems like a "true prep" such as herself would not have anything to do with VV.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

I don't think she is an actual person, but a composite fabricated by someone poking fun at Prepdom. Maybe she's a tie-in to promote the new Lisa Birnbaum book. Either photoshopped or something from Pixar. I suspect the latter.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Not surprisingly, I love it. She's knowledgeable and opinionated, which I value. She also finds things to carp at that only I thought I had a problem with. Debating showing it to my wife, it may make her even pickier when it comes to clothes!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

HoyaSaxa said:


> Came across this post this morning and thought it was worth sharing here:
> 
> The Daily Prep: What is the Preppiest store? A list and ranking of Top 10 Preppy Stores, 2010


HoyaSaxa: First and only post and it's introducing a Blog(?). While it is entirely possible that a life spent "protecting and serving" has left me a cynic, LOL, I must ask...is that you Muffy? :icon_scratch:


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> HoyaSaxa: First and only post and it's introducing a Blog(?). While it is entirely possible that a life spent "protecting and serving" has left me a cynic, LOL, I must ask...is that you Muffy? :icon_scratch:


Eagle, you old cynic. :icon_smile_wink: Maybe not Muffy - maybe one of the minions from Muffy's preppy mob. :idea:


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Since when is Burberry considered preppy?! And why is BB so low in rankings?! :confused2:



WouldaShoulda said:


> Nice Blog!!
> 
> Bet you won't find a tramp stamp on that chick!!


Chick?! Yeah right :icon_smile_big:. Plus she dyes her hair white as it appears.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Not sure what her huge attraction is to RL. I'm wearing an RL Polo right now, so I have nothing against their stuff, but she seems to like it a bit much.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I think it's all a bit too much.


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## oldschoolprep (Jun 21, 2007)

The Last Best Trad and Preppy Rag Bins in the USA - An Alternative Listing of Traditional and Preppy Mens Clothing Stores (not in ordinal ranking)

1. J. Press - New Haven, CT, Cambridge, MA, New York, NY and Washington DC

2. Brooks Brothers - Ground Zero Store - 346 Madison Avenue New York, NY

3. Murrays Toggery - Nantucket Island, MA

4. Ben Silver - Charleston, SC

5. The Andover Shop - Andover, MA or Cambridge, MA

6. Eljo's - Charlottesville, VA

7. O'Connell, Lucas and Chelf - Williamsville, NY

8. Cuffs - Chagrin Falls, NY

9. The Hunt Club - Cincinnati, Ohio

10. Cable Car Clothiers - San Francisco, CA

11. Paul Stuart - New York, NY

12. H. Stockton - Atlanta, GA and other Ga locations

13. The Claymore Shop - Brimingham and Harbor Springs, MI

14. The Nobby Shop - Nantucket Island, MA

15. Kountz and Rider - Pittsburgh, PA

16. Norman Stockton - Winston Salem, NC and other NC locations

17. Graves and Cox - Lexington, KY

18. North River Outfitters - Boston and Edgartown, MA

19. The Men's Shop - The Cloister - Sea Island, GA

20. Dann Online - www.somewhereinindianapolis.com, IN


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

oldschoolprep said:


> The Last Best Trad and Preppy Rag Bins in the USA - An Alternative Listing of Traditional and Preppy Mens Clothing Stores (not in ordinal ranking)
> 
> 1. J. Press - New Haven, CT, Cambridge, MA, New York, NY and Washington DC
> 
> ...


I am not sure I like the new Eljo's location. I went back this year as my daughter was looking at colleges. It has the same classic clothing but some of the feel of the old days is gone. I used to make the trek from the burg to go there, the Virginian and Mincers.

It just doesn't have the same feel. My favorite men's store of all time is Beecroft and Bull. I would call it mostly trad. My friends joked that it was no coincidence that they closed down their store on DOG street the year after I left. https://www.beecroftandbull.com/

For those that are new to "trad" don't let it control your life--think outside the box occassionally. That preppy blog is best viewed as satire.

Oh I should also throw in a shout out for a great place that the poster above missed: https://mhfrankltd.com/ M. H. Frank is in Clemson S. Carolina. That is a very nice family run trad store where they believe in good ole cusomter service. I like that place.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Interesting blog. I have to admit I like her aesthetic. But her tone of self generated authority is offputting in the extreme. She's New England-centric, so I don't think she's associated with Birnbach's new project in any way. Muffy seems to be the kind of person you could make shudder by uttering the word "Mississippi". Birnbach is much more ecumenical.

Her photo above reminds me of one of those crabby equestrian women who like horses better than people. Preppy requires a large dose of mirth and fun, which Muffy seems to be lacking.

Scott


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I dislike Muffy. I think it's mostly because 1. her name is muffy; 2. her inordinate love of RL and 3. her collar is popped in the picture posted on this page - don't try to convince me it was accidental


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Follow her lead and she will take you to preppy A & F heaven.:icon_smile_big:


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

gman-17 said:


> Iye
> Oh I should also throw in a shout out for a great place that the poster above missed: https://mhfrankltd.com/ M. H. Frank is in Clemson S. Carolina. That is a very nice family run trad store where they believe in good ole cusomter service. I like that place.


M.H. Frank is a good one.

She also missed Rush Wilson in Greenville as well - it's small, but "trad" heaven. A whole wall of Southwick 3/2 sacks, needlepoint belts for all the local universities, Alden special orders, Viyella sport shirts, Barbour jackets, oxford cloth pajamas, Bills khakis, Hanuer bows, etc., etc. We just lost another traditional men's clothier, but still have five others including Rush Wilson.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

camorristi said:


> ... why is BB so low in rankings?! :confused2:


I think she got it right by giving Brooks a B for its "great items currently available". I also agree with the D in the column that scores the ratio of good to bad. BB has too much "junk" mixed in with some truly great merchandise.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

[QUOTE Her photo above reminds me of one of those crabby equestrian women who like horses better than people. Preppy requires a large dose of mirth and fun, which Muffy seems to be lacking. Scott[/QUOTE]

After reading this, I went back to the blog and looked at several photos of Muffy. Yes, she is the image of a mirthless equestrienne. I was briefly married to one - sure of everything, but aware of little. The absolute certainty about trivialities is chilling.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

camorristi said:


> Chick?! Yeah right :icon_smile_big:. Plus she dyes her hair white as it appears.


I'm sure she just spends too much time in the pool!!


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## HoyaSaxa (Jan 30, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> HoyaSaxa: First and only post and it's introducing a Blog(?). While it is entirely possible that a life spent "protecting and serving" has left me a cynic, LOL, I must ask...is that you Muffy? :icon_scratch:


I've been outed. I registered in 2006, then waited 4 years to start pimping my blog at precisely the right moment.

But seriously folks; don't soil your M1s. Just a lurker that stumbled across something that I thought this crowd might have some thoughts on.


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## jwlester (Oct 20, 2009)

Was not familiar with Norman Stockton in Winston-Salem, though I grew up much of my childhood there. Looking at their website it does not look very "tradly" at all. A lot of italian I am not familiar with. Definitely doesn't strike me as southern trad. I wonder who their client base is?

Sorry to hear I missed out on Tate-Brown here in Charlotte. Any others I should be aware of?

Cheers, Josh


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

I love the blog, and love how she takes candid shots at J. Crew and LL Bean for their missteps, as well as celebrates brands such as Volvo and Patagonia. Judging by the blog, she has a great sense of style.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

I think were she a male blogger, we'd have a bit of a different reaction. I find it refreshing to have a purist - female is just icing on the cake to me.

I also like that she is authentic to where she is without being exclusionary (thus far). It's fine to be all about New England style and live there, but I'm curious what she'd think about someone living elsewhere. For some Trad-ites its apparently where you live, not necessarily the style you like or have.


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

Muffy is either one of two things:

A. The very person she claims to be, in which case she's a lunatic.

B. A gay _fashionista _pulling our legs.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

xcubbies said:


> I don't think she is an actual person, but a composite fabricated by someone poking fun at Prepdom. Maybe she's a tie-in to promote the new Lisa Birnbaum book. Either photoshopped or something from Pixar. I suspect the latter.


I wish, but I do believe that she actually exists.



The Rambler said:


> I think it's all a bit too much.


Way too much.



hookem12387 said:


> I dislike Muffy. I think it's mostly because 1. her name is muffy; 2. her inordinate love of RL and 3. her collar is popped in the picture posted on this page - don't try to convince me it was accidental


Well at least her popped collar has a purpose. She does sail and is on a boat in that picture , after all. Who thought it would be a good idea to name their kids Muffy, anyway?


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Pink and Green said:


> I think were she a male blogger, we'd have a bit of a different reaction. I find it refreshing to have a purist - female is just icing on the cake to me.
> 
> I also like that she is authentic to where she is without being exclusionary (thus far). It's fine to be all about New England style and live there, but I'm curious what she'd think about someone living elsewhere. For some Trad-ites its apparently where you live, not necessarily the style you like or have.


Something tells me she wouldn't be too fond of Tulsa or Memphis or anywhere else outside of New England.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Ron_A said:


> I love the blog, and love how she takes candid shots at J. Crew and LL Bean for their missteps, as well as celebrates brands such as Volvo and Patagonia. Judging by the blog, she has a great sense of style.


Agreed. Excusing the name for a moment (which I find insufferable), I spent the better part of yesterday reading all the posts. This gal is legit. You may not like this or that about her, but she is the real deal New England prep. And for a blogger, she's actually not a half bad writer. Compare this to the drivle on WASP 101. Night and day.

JB


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

People actually frequent Wasp 101? You say "for a blogger" like there aren't bloggers who write well. There are plenty that do.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Pink and Green said:


> I think were she a male blogger, we'd have a bit of a different reaction. I find it refreshing to have a purist - female is just icing on the cake to me.
> 
> I also like that she is authentic to where she is without being exclusionary (thus far). It's fine to be all about New England style and live there, but I'm curious what she'd think about someone living elsewhere. For some Trad-ites its apparently where you live, not necessarily the style you like or have.


I don't believe she is a purist at all. I am always deeply skeptical ot Ralph's trad cred and she relies on him and Patagonia???? Patagonia??? Come on the blog is exactly what Tin tin decried when he talked about bloggers using Wikipedia for everything. I like to look at girls as well, especially hot trad ones. (The first comment people usually make when meeting my wife is that she looks like Ali MacGraw.) This ogling of Muffy is absurd and reminds me of the episode of Happy Days wheere Potsie, looking at a nude girl in what appears to be an issue of Playboy asks, "wouldn't you like to see a swearer on her?" No. I wouldn't want to put a sweater on her. I don't care if it does have a nice little horsey on it. There are good trad blogs written by women that one by Muffy is not one of them. She should at least learn the difference between a store and a brand.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Memphis88 said:


> People actually frequent Wasp 101? You say "for a blogger" like there aren't bloggers who write well. There are plenty that do.


I read Wasp 101 a few times. Pretty quickly you realize he is a light-weight and not very informative. There are other really good blogs out there--many on the subject of trad clothing.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I spent an hour reading the blog today (yes, I had nothing better to do), and I liked it, once I got over the nickname and the unironic use of "preppy," which is really a derisive term, as in _Love Story,_ which pretty much launched the word. In fact, I found it a surprisingly exact description of the values of my wife, a Mayflower-ancestored, Ethel Walkered and Wellesleyed, horse-and-tennis playing, public-spirited kind of person.

_Except_, that she pretends no interest whatsoever in clothing, and really doesn't have much of one; in fact, she finds my interest in the fine points of dress somewhere between ludicrous and contemptible, a vain and foolish waste of money :icon_smile_big:.


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

gman-17 said:


> Patagonia???? Patagonia???


I don't give a flip about "Muffy" and her "authenticity," but I do know that Patagonia's stand-up shorts look as good as any shorts, last forever, and are reasonably priced. What more could we want?

[Actually, they're made in Thailand, although I'm sure they used to be made in the US. So we could want that. But they're still pretty good.]


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Pleasant McIvor said:


> I don't give a flip about "Muffy" and her "authenticity," but I do know that Patagonia's stand-up shorts look as good as any shorts, last forever, and are reasonably priced. What more could we want?
> 
> [Actually, they're made in Thailand, although I'm sure they used to be made in the US. So we could want that. But they're still pretty good.]


I have no problem with Patagonia--I just don't think of them as "Trad."


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

gman-17 said:


> I have no problem with Patagonia--I just don't think of them as "Trad."


Trad no, preppy yes. Try as I might I just don't really like the stand-up shorts. The back pockets bother me. I also find it interesting that her reasoning behind calling Patagonia preppy is that they let their employees off work when the waves are good. I know she is probably just using that as an example of the way the company thinks/operates, but still.


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

*Old Dog*



jwlester said:


> Was not familiar with Norman Stockton in Winston-Salem, though I grew up much of my childhood there. Looking at their website it does not look very "tradly" at all. A lot of italian I am not familiar with. Definitely doesn't strike me as southern trad. I wonder who their client base is?
> 
> Sorry to hear I missed out on Tate-Brown here in Charlotte. Any others I should be aware of?
> 
> ...


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Interesting blog, I wonder if Muffy is on Ralph Lauren's payroll with the amount of mentions, it seems so.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Memphis88 said:


> People actually frequent Wasp 101? You say "for a blogger" like there aren't bloggers who write well. There are plenty that do.


And there are way, way more who don't. Well-written blogs are in the minority. I'm not limiting this to clothing blogs. And I'm not necessarily opposed to that fact, either. Blog style is not New York Times style and never was it intended to be.

JB


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Perhaps "Muffy" actually _is _Ralph Lauren"s _nom de plume :drunken_smilie: _Ralph, is that you?


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

It's an interesting read and I'd say she's right on the money about J. Crew and LL Bean Signature.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Memphis88 said:


> Something tells me she wouldn't be too fond of Tulsa or Memphis or anywhere else outside of New England.


I would tend to agree, but I like to give the benefit of the doubt.



g-man17 said:


> I don't believe she is a purist at all. I am always deeply skeptical ot Ralph's trad cred and she relies on him and Patagonia???? Patagonia??? <snip>
> This ogling of Muffy is absurd <snip>
> She should at least learn the difference between a store and a brand.


Ralph produces acceptable clothing to her aesthetic. I think she's got an established sense of style that doesn't need to "check in" with any authority, trad or otherwise. Also, Patagonia, as many have pointed out, has been preppy forever. Thus far I see no ogling. In her nigh-prep perfection of the style, her clothes make her rather asexual. She's clearly a woman, but the clothes hide the lines much like the old days of the OPH.

I believe here we have a fork - this is the preppy end of the forum, not Trad. Also, I persist in my belief that the persecution is due to sex. We've forgiven worse in men, and thus far, I see little to have to "forgive".


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Look - I am sorry, but anyone who calls Ptagonia "preppy" or "trad" does not understand the terms. Patagonia has many items which may fit into both, and may be close to "trad" but certainly not "prep." Just because some folks wear your gear sailing doesn't make you preppy. 

As to my objections to her blog being based on the fact that she is a a woman, I am deeply offended by this concept. I would have said the same things about "Wasp 101." I think his blog is more offensive and more ridiculous than Muffy's. I am actually more offended by a number of the posters here who take her blog, which I believe is tongue in cheek satire, as serious. These are the same folks who have over the last six months turned this into the: "Tell my the top ten Trad baby names forum." I can't wait until the next Thurston Howell the III, larchmont lockjaw, vowell pronounciation thread is created.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I quite disagree, gman: not satire, not tongue in cheek, in fact totally lacking in sense of humor.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

FWIW, I've always regarded Patagonia, North Face, REI, and the like as technical gear designed for function and not style. At the very least, that's their use for me. Just because someone wears Patagonia and consistently matches it with other preppy/trad/what-have-you staples, does not, at least in my opinion, make it so. It's still just technical gear mixed with other traditional/preppy/ivy league elements. In my mind, it's like wearing a tweed jacket skiing and saying the jacket is skiing gear. 

Just my .02: But Muffy's thread seems a bit self-absorbed and contrived. As others have mentioned, anyone with that much affection for RL does not get the full picture of what the style is (that one professed here and a few other places), just a vision, dimly.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> I quite disagree, gman: not satire, not tongue in cheek, in fact totally lacking in sense of humor.


Rambler, certainly you may be right. Perhaps I am ever the optomist . . . but, in its best light, it is satire.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Beefeater said:


> FWIW, I've always regarded Patagonia, North Face, REI, and the like as technical gear designed for function and not style. At the very least, that's their use for me. Just because someone wears Patagonia and consistently matches it with other preppy/trad/what-have-you staples, does not, at least in my opinion, make it so. It's still just technical gear mixed with other traditional/preppy/ivy league elements. In my mind, it's like wearing a tweed jacket skiing and saying the jacket is skiing gear.
> 
> Just my .02: But Muffy's thread seems a bit self-absorbed and contrived. As others have mentioned, anyone with that much affection for RL does not get the full picture of what the style is (that one professed here and a few other places), just a vision, dimly.


Bravo +1


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

gman-17 said:


> Look - I am sorry, but anyone who calls Ptagonia "preppy" or "trad" does not understand the terms. Patagonia has many items which may fit into both, and may be close to "trad" but certainly not "prep." Just because some folks wear your gear sailing doesn't make you preppy.


To each his own. I really don't have much involvement for or against Patagonia. I don't do enough of anything technical to require special equipment aside from books.



gman-17 said:


> As to my objections to her blog being based on the fact that she is a a woman, I am deeply offended by this concept. I would have said the same things about "Wasp 101." I think his blog is more offensive and more ridiculous than Muffy's. I am actually more offended by a number of the posters here who take her blog, which I believe is tongue in cheek satire, as serious. These are the same folks who have over the last six months turned this into the: "Tell my the top ten Trad baby names forum." I can't wait until the next Thurston Howell the III, larchmont lockjaw, vowell pronounciation thread is created.


Please forgive me if it seemed I was singling you out. It was an overall impression, not from anything in particular you said. But I believe Rambler has it correct (although he has some history here it seems, so perhaps some jaundice), utterly serious blog. I'm not sure of her sense of humor, but she's deadly serious about those things she likes and doesn't. One can't just make that stuff up for effect. Look at the detail of loathing - only someone who truly is particular about clothing can gripe like that (as my wife could tell you).

I feel a slight pride at having started the baby name thread. We take too much seriously here - a sense of humor is needed. At the end of the day, there should be someone worth knowing inside all these clothes of ours.

(And for pre-emptive purposes, directed as a whole, not at you g-man.)


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

Beefeater said:


> FWIW, I've always regarded Patagonia, North Face, REI, and the like as technical gear designed for function and not style. At the very least, that's their use for me. Just because someone wears Patagonia and consistently matches it with other preppy/trad/what-have-you staples, does not, at least in my opinion, make it so. It's still just technical gear mixed with other traditional/preppy/ivy league elements. In my mind, it's like wearing a tweed jacket skiing and saying the jacket is skiing gear.
> 
> Just my .02: But Muffy's thread seems a bit self-absorbed and contrived. As others have mentioned, anyone with that much affection for RL does not get the full picture of what the style is (that one professed here and a few other places), just a vision, dimly.


Patagonia, Mountain Hardware, and (to an increasingly diminishing extent) The 
North Face have BECOME part of the look, just as other elements (such as the almost non-existent sack suit) have fallen out of favor. The Ivy League style as celebrated here is simply what preppies were wearing then; this blending of high-tech fibers with classic elements is part of what they're wearing now. Technical clothing has gained such widespread use and acceptance that it seems almost an affectation for one to abjure it in favor of heavy tweeds and sweaters (not to say that these don't still have their place in a modern preppy wardrobe, but in a much more limited - which is to say dressier - context than before). So the fact that "Muffy Aldrich" extols the virtues of Patagonia doesn't, on its own, destroy her credibility, at least with me.

Neither does her infatuation with Ralph Lauren, generally speaking. (Although I do remember reading something about pairing logo'd button-downs with ties, which strikes me as anathema.) RL makes some decent stuff (and also some horrible stuff, admittedly) that has gained acceptance on par with the more established brands among those who don't think too hard about their clothing choices (which is to say, authentic heirs to the preppy/ivy tradition). Of course, as is apparent from her website, she heavily analyzes the status implications of her clothing and does so in a public forum, betraying her supposed claim to that tradition.

In any event, she seems godawful pretentious, and I don't think it's satire. It certainly is a bit much.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Pink and Green said:


> To each his own. I really don't have much involvement for or against Patagonia. I don't do enough of anything technical to require special equipment aside from books.
> 
> Please forgive me if it seemed I was singling you out. It was an overall impression, not from anything in particular you said. But I believe Rambler has it correct (although he has some history here it seems, so perhaps some jaundice), utterly serious blog. I'm not sure of her sense of humor, but she's deadly serious about those things she likes and doesn't. One can't just make that stuff up for effect. Look at the detail of loathing - only someone who truly is particular about clothing can gripe like that (as my wife could tell you).
> 
> ...


P&G I think you miss my message. If that Blog is not satire it is sad. It is sad because she doesn't understand the difference between a brand and a store--so it is not informative. (There are numerous other parts of the blog which are either incorect or lack any ability whatsoever to entertain. It is also sad because it is a poor rip off of a book which gained popularity as a result of its satirical wit and charm. This is a point you seem to continuously miss. Trad / prep clothing works when it is about style and names like Yoshi or Masaki are as likely to be trad as perversions such as . . . . ugh . . . muffy. (Which is not a name but a nickname.) There are a number of great contributors who are gone from here because of this kind of silliness.


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

As for Patagonia, I'm not arguing the brand as a whole should be called "preppy" or "trad." Both terms have lost whatever meaning they had. Arguing about them is like trying to get ESPN announcers to use "fortuitous" correctly. And I'd wager that any employee of Patagonia would rather they weren't called by either of those names. 

I am saying that their stand-up shorts are of a very high quality, look good, and last a long time. Isn't that what we're here to talk about?


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Polo - trad?

https://cdn3.ioffer.com/img/item/142/484/393/6VQF5KAyTuXPacB.jpg

J. Crew - not Trad?

https://www.acontinuouslean.com/wp-...4/10_100401_JCrew_Oliver_0152_11-768x1024.jpg

Hmm. Big offensive cheap looking horses are trad / prep. Tasteful trad clothing is not?

I call Bravo Sierra. Someone is getting paid.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Pleasant McIvor said:


> As for Patagonia, I'm not arguing the brand as a whole should be called "preppy" or "trad." Both terms have lost whatever meaning they had. Arguing about them is like trying to get ESPN announcers to use "fortuitous" correctly. And I'd wager that any employee of Patagonia would rather they weren't called by either of those names.
> 
> I am saying that their stand-up shorts are of a very high quality, look good, and last a long time. Isn't that what we're here to talk about?


The shorts may be great--my rant should not be taken to diminish anything by Patagonia. I have a lot of their stuff and most of it is top notch gear. Your comments on ESPN announcers are misplaced--they love sports, not the English language. I would expcet people to come down on them for incorrect stats not for improper use of a word whose meaning has unfortunately morphed to something beyond the original intention. People here are suppose to love Trad clothing and my expectation is they are either here to learn or educate. That blog is useless, other than as a stake in the ground representing what one would want to avoid becoming or being identified with.


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

That was exactly my point about the ESPN announcers. It would be futile and silly to try to make them into masters of the English language, just as it is futile and silly to try to define "prep" or "trad."

And I agree about the blog's uselessness. I'd prefer to talk about clothes, though.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

> Patagonia, Mountain Hardware, and (to an increasingly diminishing extent) The North Face have BECOME part of the look, just as other elements (such as the almost non-existent sack suit) have fallen out of favor. The Ivy League style as celebrated here is simply what preppies were wearing then; this blending of high-tech fibers with classic elements is part of what they're wearing now. Technical clothing has gained such widespread use and acceptance that it seems almost an affectation for one to abjure it in favor of heavy tweeds and sweaters (not to say that these don't still have their place in a modern preppy wardrobe, but in a much more limited - which is to say dressier - context than before).


+1 I agree entirely with this insightful and accurate post. Especially here in the Rocky Mountains, the combination of technical clothing with traditional staples - fleece and GoreTex over chinos, for example - is often seen. While it may not be pure Trad in the sense that some restrict that term, it certainly has the right feel of practical, tasteful clothing worn without affectation.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

OK, everyone settle down.

The blog is interesting, but somewhat annoying. I think NavalGent said it best with "Interesting blog. I have to admit I like her aesthetic. But her tone of self generated authority is offputting in the extreme. "

I find it extremely funny that her first stated goal is authenticity, and then she shows her wardrobe full of Polo. Maybe she worked for Polo since she seems to have every color sweater and rugby shirt ever produced.

Also, the whole description of what makes a proper "Compound" is extremely funny. https://thedailyprep.blogspot.com/search?q=compound If your compund does not have multiple species, is it less desirable? As an aside, I have read that the Kennedy's were very upset when the Press started referring to their Hyannis estates as a compound.

I think she is real. In her profile, she has enough personal information that it seems to be legit. I have to admit I like her look and her lifestyle.

It makes you wonder why so many people want to live their life in the public eye and claim to be a leading expert on a topic.

In this case, I am guessing that Muffy hopes to be the next Martha Stewart or Lisa Birnbach and get a book deal or mentions by the popular press.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

Tom Buchanan said:


> tone of self generated authority is offputting in the extreme..


That's why I like the Ask Andy forum so much, never have that here.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Dragoon said:


> That's why I like the Ask Andy forum so much, never have that here.


ha ha ha ha ha!

best line of hte thread, D.

JB


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Tom Buchanan said:


> OK, everyone settle down.
> 
> The blog is interesting, but somewhat annoying. I think NavalGent said it best with "Interesting blog. I have to admit I like her aesthetic. But her tone of self generated authority is offputting in the extreme. "
> 
> ...


Precisely - a Martha Stewart wannabe - jut what the world needs.


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## Theoden (Dec 16, 2009)

It's an interesting blog.

I'm not really "Trad" in my wardrobe (though I'm warming up to it), but I did go to college in northern New England and I can say Muffy does embody the spirit of New England, outdoorsy, public-spirited WASPiness. Lot's of the women on my campus looked and dressed like her. This was in the 80's. She's clearly not dressing like a secretary might on Mad Men.

I think that rugged outdoor clothing has crossed over into the preppy/WASP/Trad wardrobe. I don't think the style is frozen in the pages of Take Ivy or the J. Press catalogue.

She's pretty traditional in her taste. Yes, she happens to like Ralph Lauren. She has her own sense of style and taste -- imagine that! What you have here is not a wannabe or a poser. She's the real-deal. 

And....she's a real person. If you see her blog, there are enough clues to indicate that she follows her husband's blog, who is a computer consultant, with the same last name. From the looks of it, both she and her husband are Ivy-educated and went to classic prep schools. Interestingly, they home-school their son and seem to be pretty forward-thinking in terms of education.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Dragoon said:


> That's why I like the Ask Andy forum so much, never have that here.


Ah, but a forum is constantly peer-reviewed, isn't it? Here we have at least a hundred other guys waiting to throw out the BS flag. (and they do!) If someone started a thread here about the characteristics of a compound, they would be hooted down unmercifully.

bt

Of academic interest only (I don't give a flip on a personal level), but can someone explain to me the logic that categorizes Patagonia as a preppy brand (or store) and The North Face as non-preppy? To me they are indistinguishable. Again, not arguing either way, just trying to understand the reasoning.

Scott


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

I think the blog is an item for personal expression. Those who enjoyed the link will keep reading, those who didn't will quickly forget it. Sometimes peer review is overrated.

OK, off to post a thread on what makes a proper compound. Wish me luck!


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Naval Gent said:


> Ah, but a forum is constantly peer-reviewed, isn't it? Here we have at least a hundred other guys waiting to throw out the BS flag. (and they do!) If someone started a thread here about the characteristics of a compound, they would be hooted down unmercifully.
> 
> bt
> 
> ...


The more I read that blog the more it disgusts me.

I'll say this about Patagonia vs TNF. Down here it seems like _everyone_ has a TNF Denali jacket while fewer people have Patagonias. And the people who wear Patagonia tend to also be "preppier". For example, I have 3 Patagonia fleeces and the only TNF item I have ever owned is a rain shell that I got in high school and wear every once in a while. I've been wanting to get one from Patagonia, though. For Muffy it seems like it's the company philosophy that differentiates the two.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

oldschoolprep said:


> The Last Best Trad and Preppy Rag Bins in the USA - An Alternative Listing of Traditional and Preppy Mens Clothing Stores (not in ordinal ranking)
> 
> 1. J. Press - New Haven, CT, Cambridge, MA, New York, NY and Washington DC
> 
> ...


A most informative list, OSP, and great commentary on The Daily Prep. May I add Eddie Jacobs of Baltimore MD (www.eddiejacobsltd.com), Harrison Ltd. of Birmingham AL (www.harrisonlimited.com), and, for their Gitman OCBDs and great service, www.hugestore.com ?


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Apparently I now live in a "compound", rather than an old dairy farm!

This rather worries me, as I'd formerly only associated such places with slightly fanatical people possessed of a large array of weapons and very little tweed....


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## KRMaley (Mar 28, 2010)

Memphis88 said:


> Not sure why she ranks Lilly so low, either. Takes a shot at LL Bean Signature, too. Judging by her writing and the picture of her, this lady seems every unhappy and downright mean. The funniest thing to me is that she includes Coach and Vineyard Vines in her list as runners-up. Seems like a "true prep" such as herself would not have anything to do with VV.


+1, I always find these things entertaining. Decent blog and a fun idea but I wouldn't read too into what she has too say. She did spend time on this, perhaps too much!

KM


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL. With a couple of acres of trees and lawn surrounding the crib, and a couple of out buildings thrown in for good measure, I suppose I could claim to live on an estate or in a compound but, in reality it all seems more of a bottomless work pit! Although, I cannot help but wonder how "Muffy" would choose to describe it(!)?


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

Memphis88 said:


> The more I read that blog the more it disgusts me.
> 
> I'll say this about Patagonia vs TNF. Down here it seems like _everyone_ has a TNF Denali jacket while fewer people have Patagonias. And the people who wear Patagonia tend to also be "preppier". For example, I have 3 Patagonia fleeces and the only TNF item I have ever owned is a rain shell that I got in high school and wear every once in a while. I've been wanting to get one from Patagonia, though. For Muffy it seems like it's the company philosophy that differentiates the two.


The North Face really fell off 8 or 10 years ago when it gained popularity in inner city America. Much like Tommy Hilfiger, it traded whatever preppy cachet it may have once had for mass popularity. Suddenly those puffy down jackets designed for apres ski in Beaver Creek became the adopted favorites of rappers and crack dealers, and the brand was never regarded in the same way.

More importantly, the brand lost its status as a producer of quality outdoor goods when it was purchased by Vanity Fair Corp. and was repositioned as maker of "outdoor lifestyle/fashion" products instead of technical gear. By comparison, Patagonia has remained true to its roots. It's kind of like how Cole Haan lost cred when they were acquired by Nike.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

D&S said:


> Much like Tommy Hilfiger, it traded whatever preppy cachet it may have once had for mass popularity.
> <SNIP>
> By comparison, Patagonia has remained true to its roots. It's kind of like how Cole Haan lost cred when they were acquired by Nike.


D&S speaks the truth. Exclusivity is a hallmark of the Trad/Preppy styles, but not for the reason you might think. It's not necessarily _expense_ that defines this clothing - it's that the motives for making and selling it need to involve a quality product made for the right reason. It's perfectly alright to make money doing it (J. Press, Gant, etc) but not to make as much money as humanly possible by trading your quality and brand equity for massive, overexposed success (North Face). It's not popularity that disgusts your Trads and Preppies as much as it is a massive cash grab or being absorbed into a faceless corporate empire with no care left for customers.

You'll note how the old companies do well by remembering their customers and their quality.


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## oldschoolprep (Jun 21, 2007)

BD79cc - Feel free to add any other Trad/Prep Shops you like. I invite the others to do so as well. My list is by no means definitive. I posted it to start a conversation and gain input on other similar establishments. I look forward to everyone's input.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Another store with great trad clothing and excellent customer service:

Great prices on Trafalgar products https://www.sirshop.com/

Great guys to do business with.


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## garden and gun (Jun 25, 2010)

I don't get the low rating given to Lilly Pulitzer.....


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Garden & Gun's location just reminded me that Prices' in Spartanburg, SC, is certainly worth a look as well for those passing through. Not really "preppy", but they stock "trad" favorites.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

camorristi said:


> Since when is Burberry considered preppy?!


Since the 1930s when J. Press was a big promoter.



gman-17 said:


> Look - I am sorry, but anyone who calls Ptagonia "preppy" or "trad" does not understand the terms. Patagonia has many items which may fit into both, and may be close to "trad" but certainly not "prep." Just because some folks wear your gear sailing doesn't make you preppy.


I think they fall under that nebulous category of "probationary Trad".  Their background is decidedly West Coast crunchy, but a lot of their early items were the real deal, and they received something of a "letter of introduction" when L.L. Bean started offering their stuff in its catalog in the 1980s. A lot of their stuff was made in the U.S. or U.K., Austria, etc., it was rugged, functional, and vaguely environmentally friendly. I'm not sure exactly where they stand now, mostly because almost all of their stuff is "imported" now, and they've gotten into (non-recycled) synthetics in a big way.

It's funny, because they were burned by the overseas contract work before. From Let My People Go Surfing by Yvon Chouinard:


> One of the first products to bear the label nearly brought us to bankruptcy. The rugby shirt's sales had become a burgeoning underground fashion in the mountain shops. These stores shared our heritage; they had been started by climbers and backpackers who knew little about business but needed a way to support themselves. Originally they had found unexpected growth from the college fad of wearing Vibram-soled mountain boots to class and down jackets around the city. Now rugby shirts were bringing in new customers - only to be turned away because we couldn't supply the growing demand. In 1974 we made our big move and contracted directly with a garment factory in Hong Kong for three thousand shirts a month, in eight color combinations.
> 
> It turned into a disaster. Shipments were late, and because the factory was accustomed to making trendy fashion clothing, the quality was terrible. They used too fine a thread, the shirts shrank horribly, and some even came in with three-quarter-length sleeves. We unloaded as many shirts as we could for less than cost and almost lost the company. Because we had been growing so quickly and were still not very profitable we had severe cash-flow problems.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

katon said:


> I think they fall under that nebulous category of "probationary Trad".  Their background is decidedly West Coast crunchy, but a lot of their early items were the real deal, and they received something of a "letter of introduction" when L.L. Bean started offering their stuff in its catalog in the 1980s. A lot of their stuff was made in the U.S. or U.K., Austria, etc., it was rugged, functional, and vaguely environmentally friendly. I'm not sure exactly where they stand now, mostly because almost all of their stuff is "imported" now, and they've gotten into (non-recycled) synthetics in a big way.
> 
> It's funny, because they were burned by the overseas contract work before. From Let My People Go Surfing by Yvon Chouinard:


Patagonia has things which share elements of that which is "trad" or "preppy" but I would not go so far as to call the brand trad. To me that would require a focus on the traditional and they absolutely do not do that. They focus on creating gear. This does not diminish the quality of the product. I have a phenomenal jacket from Patagonia but there is nothing even remotely trad about it. BTW it is black and looks great and chicks dig it --which is far more important thant it being trad.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

D&S said:


> Patagonia, Mountain Hardware, and (to an increasingly diminishing extent) The
> North Face have BECOME part of the look, just as other elements (such as the almost non-existent sack suit) have fallen out of favor. The Ivy League style as celebrated here is simply what preppies were wearing then; this blending of high-tech fibers with classic elements is part of what they're wearing now. Technical clothing has gained such widespread use and acceptance that it seems almost an affectation for one to abjure it in favor of heavy tweeds and sweaters (not to say that these don't still have their place in a modern preppy wardrobe, but in a much more limited - which is to say dressier - context than before). So the fact that "Muffy Aldrich" extols the virtues of Patagonia doesn't, on its own, destroy her credibility, at least with me.
> 
> Neither does her infatuation with Ralph Lauren, generally speaking. (Although I do remember reading something about pairing logo'd button-downs with ties, which strikes me as anathema.) RL makes some decent stuff (and also some horrible stuff, admittedly) that has gained acceptance on par with the more established brands among those who don't think too hard about their clothing choices (which is to say, authentic heirs to the preppy/ivy tradition). Of course, as is apparent from her website, she heavily analyzes the status implications of her clothing and does so in a public forum, betraying her supposed claim to that tradition.
> ...


1. "Such as the almost non-existent sack suit." I would invite you to review many of the WAYW threads to confirm this as well as direct you to many retailers that sell them, many of which are mentioned in this forum. Just because you don't wear them and prefer Patagonia jackets doesn't mean they don't exist.

2. You state, "The Ivy League style as celebrated here is simply what preppies were wearing then." When is "then"? Yesterday? 50 years ago? The seventies? If you've read much here you'd know that the style doesn't change or evolve that much. Certainly not so much for Patagonia/TNF/etc to gain any sort of foothold as BECOMING part of the look as you state. As far as am I'm concerned, it's much more of an affectation to include it in the look than to "abjure" it as you state. Give me a break.

As far as Muffy's credibility goes, she doesn't have any to destroy so it's a moot point. She is simply a blogger with an opinion on a subject, at least as far as men's clothing, she knows nothing about. There are plenty to go around. . .


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I think L.L. Bean should hire her.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

She'd try her damndest to kill off the Signature line. I quite like much of the F/W 2010 stuff.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

I gathered from reading the commandments regarding OCBDs that she also feels the same way as my lady friends about the lack of a gauntlet button exposing too much of a hairy forearm!


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

gman-17 said:


> I am not sure I like the new Eljo's location. I went back this year as my daughter was looking at colleges. It has the same classic clothing but some of the feel of the old days is gone. I used to make the trek from the burg to go there, the Virginian and Mincers.
> 
> It just doesn't have the same feel. My favorite men's store of all time is Beecroft and Bull. I would call it mostly trad. My friends joked that it was no coincidence that they closed down their store on DOG street the year after I left. https://www.beecroftandbull.com/
> 
> ...


I also miss the Beecroft and Bull that was on DOG street. The last time I visited DOG street the R Bryant Ltd mens shop was still there.


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## anselmo1 (Dec 22, 2006)

My favorite is O'Connell's in Buffalo, New York.

https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Brio1 said:


> I also miss the Beecroft and Bull that was on DOG street. The last time I visited DOG street the R Bryant Ltd mens shop was still there.


It was, and is in the remaining places, a great store. I enjoyed shopping there--met Chris Berman there and other celebrities and it was a fun place to hang out.


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

Beefeater said:


> 1. "Such as the almost non-existent sack suit." I would invite you to review many of the WAYW threads to confirm this as well as direct you to many retailers that sell them, many of which are mentioned in this forum. Just because you don't wear them and prefer Patagonia jackets doesn't mean they don't exist.
> 
> 2. You state, "The Ivy League style as celebrated here is simply what preppies were wearing then." When is "then"? Yesterday? 50 years ago? The seventies? If you've read much here you'd know that the style doesn't change or evolve that much. Certainly not so much for Patagonia/TNF/etc to gain any sort of foothold as BECOMING part of the look as you state. As far as am I'm concerned, it's much more of an affectation to include it in the look than to "abjure" it as you state. Give me a break.
> 
> As far as Muffy's credibility goes, she doesn't have any to destroy so it's a moot point. She is simply a blogger with an opinion on a subject, at least as far as men's clothing, she knows nothing about. There are plenty to go around. . .


1. Obviously the things exist, but are popular only among clothing hobbyists. I personally prefer them to two- and three-button suits in terms of fit and style and wish they were more readily available, but the fact is that mainstream clothing brands don't sell them in considerable numbers anymore. I was in a Richmond Brooks Brothers (not an outlet) last week asking about the poplin sack featured on the website and the salesman couldn't recall the last time his store stocked one. The fact that I couldn't get a sack suit at a Brooks Brothers (a pillar of the Ivy League look) in Richmond, Virginia (a very sartorially conservative town) illustrates my point.

2. As I understand it, "trad" equals Eastern Establishment attire as exemplified in the 1950s and early 1960s. The debate about preppy vs. trad is ridiculous to me because the style known as "trad" is that which "preppies" wore during this time period. I'll accept that the look as celebrated here is frozen in time, and if you want to dress like an extra from Love Story, that's your prerogative. But real people don't dress that way anymore and haven't for some time. Preppy style as it is known now wouldn't be the same without technical clothing from Patagonia, Mountain Hardware, Arc'teryx, CloudVeil, Marmot, etc. That these items are more effective for what they are designed to do (namely, staying dry) makes it even more of a conscious decision and an affectation for someone to ABJURE them (since that word got under your skin before) when functionally superior alternatives are readily available.

Have fun lounging in your wet tweed underwear. Give _me_ a break.


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

And oh yeah, Gordon's = more trad than Beefeater


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

D&S said:


> And oh yeah, Gordon's = more trad than Beefeater


Speaking in terms of liquors only, I'll go with that: the tradliest liquors come in jugs with handles, preferably plastic jugs :drunken_smilie:


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> Speaking in terms of liquors only, I'll go with that: the tradliest liquors come in jugs with handles, preferably plastic jugs :drunken_smilie:


Carried over the shoulder and side-sippin'


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

D&S said:


> Have fun lounging in your wet tweed underwear. Give _me_ a break.


Don't be silly. Everyone on this forum knows that the tweed underwear is in storage for Fall and Winter. Now is the time for your linen, seeersucker, and poplin undergarment rotation. Or maybe a moisture wicking technical fiber if you prefer.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

D&S said:


> And oh yeah, Gordon's = more trad than Beefeater


Prove it.


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

FWIW, I remember a lot of "preppies" wearing Patagonia fleece when I was a kid (1990's), but most of them got into Grateful Dead shirts and pot leaf necklaces by the time they were old enough to buy their own clothes.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

It seems a shame that this thread continues after post #2 said it all.

To call UK Halsey the preppiest of sailmakers shows this Martha Stewart wannabe knows very litttle. There is nobody more preppy then Brown Thread Ted from Marblehead and his eponymus Hood sails.


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

A reluctant bump to this worn-out thread: anecdotal remembrance of visits to J. Press. https://thedailyprep.blogspot.com/


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

gman-17 said:


> It was, and is in the remaining places, a great store. I enjoyed shopping there--met Chris Berman there and other celebrities and it was a fun place to hang out.


I'm originally from the Tidewater area. My uncle lived in Kingsmill and owned a motel in CW. The time to visit is during the Grand Illumination in December and during autumn for the foliage. I may have to make a trip down to visit in the near future. When was the last time that you visited?


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Brio1 said:


> I'm originally from the Tidewater area. My uncle lived in Kingsmill and owned a motel in CW. The time to visit is during the Grand Illumination in December and during autumn for the foliage. I may have to make a trip down to visit in the near future. When was the last time that you visited?


I was back in the Burg this year while looking at schools with my daughter. It really is very unpleasant to have the students looking at you and remembering what you thought of those visiting. LOL


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