# OCBD Features and Bugs Bulllet Point



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Herrsuit asked for recommendations for the best OCBD. No such thing exists, probably, but they all have a range of features, some desirable and some not, and one mans bug is another man's feature and vice versa. Just off the top of my head

Brooks Brothers Traditional Supima


The grand-daddy of them all.
Most consistent quality. The same make and cut for more than 15 years.
Extremely full cut
Generous collar achieves a great roll.
Good value for money, easily obtainable at $50 a copy and has the best fabric of the non-luxury class OCBD.


Not as traditional as you might think. Many changes over the years including most recent innovation of a lined (but not fused) collar.


Limited colors, but pink sets the standard
Made in USA

Brooks Brothers Slim Fit


Same as above but less tent-like.


Still fairly full in the chest area.

Brooks Brothers Black Fleece


High armholes, slmmer chest


Somewhat softer fuller fabric than Supima OCBD


Softer lining in collar


Interesting new colors


XS-S-M-L-XL-XXL sizing


Innovative/weird locker loop
Made in USA

Lands End Hyde Park


Soft, full collar


Heavy-duty not particularly soft fabric


Production switches from country to country - Inconsistent quality


Extremely reasonable price < $30


Discontinued
Locker Loop


Cut in-between Brooks Trad & Brooks Slim Fit

Lands End Original Oxford


Soft, full collar


Somewhat flimsy not particularly soft fabric


Production switches from country to country - Inconsistent quality


Extremely reasonable price < $20


Cut in-between Brooks Trad & Brooks Slim Fit
Used to have interesting colors, not so much anymore.

J. Press


Has trademark flap pocket


Somewhat shorter, stiffer collar does not always roll like Brooks


Somewhat boxy cut, between Trad & Slim-fit


Consistently made in USA, but by a variety of makers so some inconsistency.

Ralph Lauren


Available everywhere and at many different quality price levels


Not always clear what quality level you are getting


Interesting colors


Many different cuts


Short collar points, no roll


Sleeve sizing at 2" intervals.
Gitman Brothers (?)


Heavier sturdier fabric, but wrinkle prone
Cut In between Brooks Traditional fit and Slim fit
Long collar lined (fused?) but still has great roll.
Consistent quality - Gitman makes own OCBD
Consistently priced $100 (?) up


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

BB OCBD is also made in the USA.


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

Edwin Ek said:


> BB OCBD is also made in the USA.


I'd have to double check, but I am pretty certain the ones I bought a week ago were made in Malayasia. They were the standard BB though and not the luxury or GF.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

I'm looking forward to more responses.:icon_smile:

Experiences with, and prices of Gitman anyone?


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

Non-irons are Malay made, must-irons US.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Edwin Ek said:


> BB OCBD is also made in the USA.


 Good point. Editing done.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

AP, are you sure about Press collars being short with poor rolls? I rather the roll on the Press OCBD's and think it comparable to the Brooks roll.

These measurements were done hastily but:

Brooks Collar Length=3 3/8"
Press Collar Length= 3 3/8"

Brooks Collar Button Distance-1 3/8" from center of placket, 2 1/4" from top button

Press Collar Button Distance -1 1/4" from center of placket, 2 1/8" from top button.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> Not as traditional as you might think. Many changes over the years including most recent innovation of a lined (but not fused) collar.


You can say that again! They're definitely different shirts now from the ones I wore in college in the 1970s or the ones I wore as a young adult in the 1980s.

One readily-obtainable OCBD I didn't see on the list was the one from Gitman. They use a heavier, sturdier (but more wrinkle-prone) Oxford cloth that Brooks. The Gitman pattern allows for a more fitted but still fully cut body, slightly longer cuff barrels, and longer collar points. Collar and cuffs are interfaced. But the collar roll is excellent - as good as Brooks. Overall, Gitman makes a very substantial and durable OCBD. One disadvantage: I've never seen a Gitman OCBD go on sale.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

Gitman Vintage are nice. Gitman actually makes Thom Browne's oxfords.

See here.


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## slubfan (Aug 24, 2009)

I would add that the Black Fleece OCBDs have shorter sleeves than I expected.


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

This sizing of the BB-BF shirts is misleading. While labeled S to XXL in reality they are a size or so smaller than the printed size would indicate. As stated, the armholes are higher and tighter as well. If you fit the sizing then I understand they are excellent shirts. 

I am surprised that Mercer was not mentioned. A search of this site shows that most clients are very satisfied with their shirts. My understanding is that they are fuller cut than BB Supima, with completely unlined collars and cuffs.

My experience with Gitman shirts has been problematic. I have found them to be trimmer cut than BB, with a longer collar and collar points that are closer together. 

I have found J Press sizing to vary considerably over time depending on where they have sources their shirts from.

Best,

Ross


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## sjk (Dec 1, 2007)

rl1856 said:


> I am surprised that Mercer was not mentioned. A search of this site shows that most clients are very satisfied with their shirts. My understanding is that they are fuller cut than BB Supima, with completely unlined collars and cuffs.


I've recently started ordering from Mercer and have been quite satisfied so far. The stock model Mercer is indeed a full cut shirt, but perhaps only slightly larger than the BB Supima. But I have some shirts from RL that are actually fuller still. They can give you exact dimensions before you buy.

Mercer may be better thought of as a sort of MTM shop. There are many tailoring options, including putting a smaller body on a larger neck (i.e. putting a 16" body with a 16.5" neck, which makes the body slightly slimmer) or slimming the waist. Their selection of fabrics is WAY better than BB.

Mercer is not cheap (and the above options increase the cost further) but at least you'll get the shirt you want.


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## Herrsuit (Aug 4, 2009)

Thanks! Seems like there's a market niche available. Where are our entrepreneurs?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I think my RLP madras shirt actually has a nice collar despite the 3" points. Maybe it's not a very full roll like Brooks/Mercer/Gitman, but it's by no means _flat_ even with the top button fastened. More of a '60s style button down. Back on July 4, an older gentleman remarked that it was just like the "collegiate" shirts he wore back then.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

AdamsSutherland said:


> AP, are you sure about Press collars being short with poor rolls? I rather the roll on the Press OCBD's and think it comparable to the Brooks roll.
> 
> These measurements were done hastily but:
> 
> ...


I measure J.Press, 3.25" and BB >3.375". Perhaps it was laundry shrinkage or a matter of Press having a variety of sources. Either way, .125" might be cutting it pretty fine. Perhaps, because of the relatively stiff collar, J.Press just plays small, to use a basketball analogy. Still I was probably too harsh.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Jovan said:


> I think my RLP madras shirt actually has a nice collar despite the 3" points. Maybe it's not a very full roll like Brooks/Mercer/Gitman, but it's by no means _flat_ even with the top button fastened. More of a '60s style button down. Back on July 4, an older gentleman remarked that it was just like the "collegiate" shirts he wore back then.


Almost all features are also bugs and vice versa.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

bd79cc said:


> You can say that again! They're definitely different shirts now from the ones I wore in college in the 1970s or the ones I wore as a young adult in the 1980s.
> 
> One readily-obtainable OCBD I didn't see on the list was the one from Gitman. They use a heavier, sturdier (but more wrinkle-prone) Oxford cloth that Brooks. The Gitman pattern allows for a more fitted but still fully cut body, slightly longer cuff barrels, and longer collar points. Collar and cuffs are interfaced. But the collar roll is excellent - as good as Brooks. Overall, Gitman makes a very substantial and durable OCBD. One disadvantage: I've never seen a Gitman OCBD go on sale.


Gitman Brothers


Heavier sturdier fabric, but wrinkle prone
Cut In between Brooks Traditional fit and Slim fit
Long collar lined (fused?) but still has great roll.
Consistent quality - Gitman makes own OCBD
Consistently priced $100 (?) up


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

TradTeacher said:


> Gitman Vintage are nice. Gitman actually makes Thom Browne's oxfords.
> 
> See here.


Any specific characteristics you could name?


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

sjk said:


> Mercer may be better thought of as a sort of MTM shop. There are many tailoring options, including putting a smaller body on a larger neck (i.e. putting a 16" body with a 16.5" neck, which makes the body slightly slimmer) or slimming the waist. Their selection of fabrics is WAY better than BB.


I have ordered a smaller size body than neck and asked for the slim jim (I believe 2" slimmer in chest and maybe body). The shirts are still a bit too large in the waist. Were you able to give David a specific measurement or state how many inches less you wanted the waist from the standard?


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## blastandcast (Nov 29, 2006)

sjk said:


> I've recently started ordering from Mercer and have been quite satisfied so far. The stock model Mercer is indeed a full cut shirt, but perhaps only slightly larger than the BB Supima. But I have some shirts from RL that are actually fuller still. They can give you exact dimensions before you buy.
> 
> Mercer may be better thought of as a sort of MTM shop. There are many tailoring options, including putting a smaller body on a larger neck (i.e. putting a 16" body with a 16.5" neck, which makes the body slightly slimmer) or slimming the waist. Their selection of fabrics is WAY better than BB.
> 
> Mercer is not cheap (and the above options increase the cost further) but at least you'll get the shirt you want.


I agree. Mercer does a fantastic job. They have a nice heavy fabric which wears well and have a fuller (baggier) cut which I appreciate given that I have more in common with Winnie the Pooh (stubby, chubby, stuffed with fluff) than I do with the models at Brooks Brothers. Another plus, is that I can get collars and sleeves that fit.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

If you're willing to spend $50 on a Brooks, spend another $50 and get a Mercer. Ten times the shirt for only twice the price, and David's a mensch while Brooks is just this side of the Axis of Evil.

If you don't have the scratch, LE's $25 plain must-iron is at least as nice as the Brooks and in some ways better (nothing inside that collar but air).


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## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

A brief Mercer / Brooks OCBD comparison

In addition, Mercer has a seven-button front placket. Brooks has eight, now, I believe.

Brooks has the nice shirring on the sleeve cuffs.

Mercer's button holes are sewn and then cut. Some find this to be a terribly offensive practice.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=71790&highlight=mercer+bb+comparison

An even more detailed thread comparing BB and Mercer OCBD's. Lots of close-ups.


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## sjk (Dec 1, 2007)

Cowtown said:


> Were you able to give David a specific measurement or state how many inches less you wanted the waist from the standard?


I did not give specific measurements, but would encourage you to at least discuss this with David. Agree that 2" off the waist circumference isn't much, but if added to the smaller body size, then it's closer to 4".


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Everyone's entitled to his or her opinion. If you prefer the current Brooks OCBD to Mercer's, be my guest. I've owned both and IMO the Mercer makes the Brooks look like something you'd buy at Walmart.



Tucker said:


> A brief Mercer / Brooks OCBD comparison
> 
> In addition, Mercer has a seven-button front placket. Brooks has eight, now, I believe.
> 
> ...


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

*Right. Walmart.*

Okay, but there should be a disclaimer for the newer Ask Andy members who haven't yet noticed that most of Continental Fop's posts are anti-BB diatribes. They will soon find this out, but still....


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Brooks Brothers Traditional Supima


The grand-daddy of them all.
Most consistent quality. The same make and cut for more than 15 years.
Extremely full cut
Generous collar achieves a great roll.
Good value for money, easily obtainable at $50 a copy and has the best fabric of the non-luxury class OCBD.


Not as traditional as you might think. Many changes over the years including most recent innovation of a lined (but not fused) collar.


Limited colors, but pink sets the standard
Made in USA
Nice shirring of sleeves.

Brooks Brothers Slim Fit


Same as above but less tent-like.


Still fairly full in the chest area.

Brooks Brothers Black Fleece


High armholes, slmmer chest


Somewhat softer fuller fabric than Supima OCBD


Softer lining in collar


Interesting new colors


XS-S-M-L-XL-XXL sizing


Innovative/weird locker loop
Made in USA
Not cheap. $150 at retail, frequently marked down to $75

Lands End Hyde Park


Soft, full collar


Heavy-duty not particularly soft fabric


Production switches from country to country - Inconsistent quality


Extremely reasonable price < $30


Discontinued
Locker Loop


Cut in-between Brooks Trad & Brooks Slim Fit

Lands End Original Oxford


Soft, full collar


Somewhat flimsy not particularly soft fabric


Production switches from country to country - Inconsistent quality


Extremely reasonable price < $20


Cut in-between Brooks Trad & Brooks Slim Fit
Used to have interesting colors, not so much anymore.
Extremely soft collar.

J. Press


Has trademark flap pocket


Somewhat shorter, stiffer collar does not always roll like Brooks


Somewhat boxy cut, between Trad & Slim-fit


Consistently made in USA, but by a variety of makers so some inconsistency.

Ralph Lauren


Available everywhere and at many different quality price levels.


Not always clear what quality level you are getting


Interesting colors


Many different cuts


Short collar points, no roll


Sleeve sizing at 2" intervals.
Gitman Brothers (?)


Heavier sturdier fabric, but wrinkle prone
Cut In between Brooks Traditional fit and Slim fit
Long collar lined (fused?) but still has great roll.
Consistent quality - Gitman makes own OCBD
Consistently priced $100 (?) up
Gitman Brothers Vintage


Nice
Mercer


Made to measure, perfect sizing of sleeves and cuffs
Heavy fabric
Very full cut, can be slimmed but even slim version is fairly full
7 placket front.
Not evil


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

No J.Crew, Gap, LL Bean afficianados. How about Gant of Stockholm?


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

AP, this is great. This might become the go-to thread as a departure point for the relative merits of OCBD brands, at least off the rack. 

I love my BB OCBDs so much (both slim-fits and traditional cuts) that I haven't tried Press or Mercer, but I'll get around to them. 

Consistent, predictable shrinkage might be another factor. I'm very happy with the minimum shrinking of BB. Slim-fits I hang dry exclusively. Traditional cuts I wash AND machine dry the first couple times because I buy these in an inch-longer sleeve. (I've got it down to a science.)


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

The Continental Fop said:


> Mercer makes the Brooks look like something you'd buy at Walmart.


I wouldn't knock Walmart so quickly. Until very recently, Walmart sold (and still sells in some of their stores) a surprisingly good OCBD for about $14.00. Good quality Oxford cloth, very good build quality, excellent full fit for the price. Not much collar roll but enough buttons down the front to keep your belly button under wraps!

P.S. Thanks for the edit job, AP - you turned my rambling ruminations into a nice easy-to-read list.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

I think disclaimers for newbs is an excellent idea, actually. Because it's really important that the seven or eight spiky gelled kids who pop up each year asking what Lucky jeans go best with untucked striped dress shirts from Banana Republic know that I think Brooks is a sad, hollowed-out facade of it's former self, and that the brand does maintain a few slavish fanboys here who don't feel the need to reassess their opinion in the face of ever-sinking quality of both merch and salespeople. So yes, perhaps some boilerplate beneath each and every post would be useful. "This poster prefers to think of himself as a Brooks guy, so don't expect any objectivism or clear-eyed assessment of what the brand is actually doing now vs. what it did 20 yrs ago."

Capital idea, old beam.



Joe Beamish said:


> Okay, but there should be a disclaimer for the newer Ask Andy members who haven't yet noticed that most of Continental Fop's posts are anti-BB diatribes. They will soon find this out, but still....


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

Joe Beamish said:


> AP, this is great. This might become the go-to thread as a departure point for the relative merits of OCBD brands, at least off the rack.
> 
> I love my BB OCBDs so much (both slim-fits and traditional cuts) that I haven't tried Press or Mercer, but I'll get around to them.
> 
> Consistent, predictable shrinkage might be another factor. I'm very happy with the minimum shrinking of BB. Slim-fits I hang dry exclusively. Traditional cuts I wash AND machine dry the first couple times because I buy these in an inch-longer sleeve. (I've got it down to a science.)


JB: Could you say a bit more about your technique with the traditional cut BB OCBDs? I am intrigued as I have had difficulty with sizing on these.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

TDI -- The thing with me is, I'm between 32 and 33 in sleeve length. 

Slim-fits: I buy these in 16.5 x 32, and they never see a dryer. Here I want to minimize the shrinkage because they fit p-e-r-f-e-c-t-l-y if I keep them out of the hot dryer. (Keep in mind that BB builds a little extra fabric into their shirts to account for shrinkage.) 

Traditional cut: I buy these in 16.5 x 33, and let them dry to their heart's content in the nasty hot dryer at least the first several launderings. Otherwise A) the sleeves will be too long, and B) the shoulders will be very slightly too large -- I don't know why (you'd think the shoulders would be the same as slims, but in effect they're not -- perhaps because the rest of the shirt is so much larger.) And since the dryer will also shrink the neck, I have a tailor move the button 1/4 inch to give me more room.

What's your approach, and where's the trouble show up usually?


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

Perhaps we can add the (oft despised) Rugby OCBD into the mix. In my view, these shirts have the following characteristics:

1) Very slim fit, which is nice for the slimmest among us. The Rugby OCBD is also rather short, undoubtedly because its makers presumed that the young'uns would wear it untucked.

2) Soft shirt of medium heft.

3) Very soft collar, without a great roll.

4) Button on back of the collar.

5) Decent price. There is no reason to buy one of these at full price, since they invariably go on sale. At sale prices, you can pick one up for ca. $25.

6) Available in standard colors.


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

JB --

I have a few problems with BB OCBDs. The first is that the slim fit tends to be a tad too slim and the traditional fit a tad too big. J.Press and LE fit me better through the torso, but their collars don't stack up to BB's IMHO.

I buy the BB slim fit in my normal size. Collar and sleeve fit well as long as they don't see a dryer.* So these are what I tend to buy, using the fact that they are slightly snug through the torso as motivation to keep my weight in check.

The traditional fit shirts are about 1/4 to 1/2" too long in the sleeve if I buy my normal size, and, of course, about 1/4 go 1/2" too short if I size down. Perhaps if I followed your technique the traditional shirts might "shrink to fit." That would be nice.

*The exception to this is the white slim fit OCBDs, which, for whatever reason, shrink considerably even after one washing and air dry. At least that's been my experience. If others have had this experience it might be worth adding to AldenPyle's master list.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

AldenPyle said:


> No J.Crew, Gap, LL Bean afficianados. How about Gant of Stockholm?


Old LL Bean bds from thrifts only for me.

The new ones, which are treated, are okay but for some reason they collect more gunk on the inside of the collar than any other shirt I own. (This may have changed, mine are six years old.)

"Those dirty rings!"

Also - Like Joe Beamish I am between 32 and 33 in sleeve length, and I have grown to appreciate the BB outlet OCBDs, with the averaged sleeve lengths (the average varies wildly, though) and two buttons on the cuff.


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

Sir Cingle said:


> Perhaps we can add the (oft despised) Rugby OCBD into the mix...


I can't recall ever having seen anyone mention these shirts, so I'm not sure why they're oft despised (perhaps you are referring to the Rugby brand in general). At any rate, based on your description of them, I took a look at them on RL Rugby's website. I think that it's worth noting that they effectively are "sport" shirts, and do not come in exact sizes (which rules them out for many). However, if you are okay with sport shirt sizing, these may be an option as they look pretty good for a casual (i.e., not to be worn with suit and tie) OCBD.

I personally think that you can't do much better than BB slim fit. But, I will admit that I have tried neither Mercer nor Gitman.


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

^In using the phrase "oft despised," I was actually referring to Rugby itself, not these particular shirts. But my wording was confusing, so I can understand the confusion.

Yes, the Rugby shirts come only in S-M-L-XL. This is a major drawback for some--and renders this OCBD a casual shirt. For me, this means that if the body is slim enough, the neck will be too slim. Thus I simply can't wear a tie with a Rugby OCBD that fits me.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

The LE OCBDs are no longer $20.


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## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

I grabbed three non-iron slim fit OCBD at $199 less 30% during the discount. I submit that the BB USA made OCBD is the standard during any discount period.


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## rabidawg (Apr 14, 2009)

Jovan said:


> The LE OCBDs are no longer $20.


No, but LE has sales on a regular basis, during many of which the OCBD are less than $20, with free shipping.

EDIT: The patterned OCBD are a good example of this.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

The Continental Fop said:


> I think disclaimers for newbs is an excellent idea, actually. Because it's really important that the seven or eight spiky gelled kids who pop up each year asking what Lucky jeans go best with untucked striped dress shirts from Banana Republic know that I think Brooks is a sad, hollowed-out facade of it's former self, and that the brand does maintain a few slavish fanboys here who don't feel the need to reassess their opinion in the face of ever-sinking quality of both merch and salespeople. So yes, perhaps some boilerplate beneath each and every post would be useful. "This poster prefers to think of himself as a Brooks guy, so don't expect any objectivism or clear-eyed assessment of what the brand is actually doing now vs. what it did 20 yrs ago."
> 
> Capital idea, old beam.


Let's just take the spelling and grammatical affronts in this most recent screed, shall we?

"disclaimers for newbs is an excellent idea"--possibly you meant "are"?

"sad hollowed-out facade of it's former self"-possessive form of it is "its" not "it's" which means "it is"

Keep on slamming Brooks if it makes you feel better but take a day or two off and learn the basics of writing too.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

True. The Hyde Parks are on sale right now.


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## Desk Jockey (Aug 19, 2005)

Mercer shirts have a 6 button front, not 7.


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## Moose Maclennan (Apr 20, 2006)

Brooksfan said:


> Let's just take the spelling and grammatical affronts in this most recent screed, shall we?
> 
> "disclaimers for newbs is an excellent idea"--possibly you meant "are"?...


An idea are?


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## Bird's One View (Dec 31, 2007)

Joe Beamish said:


> TDI -- The thing with me is, I'm between 32 and 33 in sleeve length.
> 
> Slim-fits: I buy these in 16.5 x 32, and they never see a dryer. Here I want to minimize the shrinkage because they fit p-e-r-f-e-c-t-l-y if I keep them out of the hot dryer. (Keep in mind that BB builds a little extra fabric into their shirts to account for shrinkage.)
> 
> ...


Interesting. I take a 1" longer sleeve size in the slim fit than in the traditional. I don't put any of them in the dryer.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Moose Maclennan said:


> An idea are?


 Grab a seat in the remedial grammar class--the verb links to the word "disclaimers" not to the word "idea" and thus the proper form of the verb would be "are" not "is".

Have a nice day.


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## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

This thread has officially been...

(insert picture of train derailing)

...though it started out nicely.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks for making my day. Seriously. Thank you.



Brooksfan said:


> Let's just take the spelling and grammatical affronts in this most recent screed, shall we?
> 
> "disclaimers for newbs is an excellent idea"--possibly you meant "are"?
> 
> ...


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

It's a shame that an informative thread about OCBDs had to be derailed by a couple of internet tough guys.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Really? Brooksfan, relax dude. Scouring a thread of informal writing for a couple of minor grammatical infractions and feeling haughty about it IS a waste of time. I recommend some yoga, a beer, a long walk, maybe an evening with your favorite volume of ungrammatical poetry or brilliantly written colloquial prose.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Guys, knock it off. Surely you can take it to PM. Don't ruin the thread for others.


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## Reds & Tops (Feb 20, 2009)

Well spoken, JB.


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

*Kenneth Gordon*

What about Kenneth Gordon shirts. They once had pocket flaps too and you could get the heavy oxford cloth. Not sure if it's still available.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

J. Press 1939


Popover Style
Variety of Fabrics and Qualities
Limited Colors
Completely unlined collars and cuffs.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

AP,
70 years ago. Look what inflation has done to the cost of OCBD


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Brooks Brothers Traditional Supima


The grand-daddy of them all.
Most consistent quality. The same make and cut for more than 15 years.
Extremely full cut
Generous collar achieves a great roll.
Good value for money, easily obtainable at $50 a copy and has the best fabric of the non-luxury class OCBD.


Not as traditional as you might think. Many changes over the years including most recent innovation of a lined (but not fused) collar.


Limited colors, but pink sets the standard
Made in USA
Nice shirring of sleeves.

Brooks Brothers Slim Fit


Same as above but less tent-like.


Still fairly full in the chest area.

Brooks Brothers Black Fleece


High armholes, slmmer chest


Somewhat softer fuller fabric than Supima OCBD


Softer lining in collar


Interesting new colors


XS-S-M-L-XL-XXL sizing


Innovative/weird locker loop
Made in USA
Not cheap. $150 at retail, frequently marked down to $75

Lands End Hyde Park


Soft, full collar


Heavy-duty not particularly soft fabric


Production switches from country to country - Inconsistent quality


Extremely reasonable price < $30


Discontinued
Locker Loop


Cut in-between Brooks Trad & Brooks Slim Fit

Lands End Original Oxford


Soft, full collar


Somewhat flimsy not particularly soft fabric


Production switches from country to country - Inconsistent quality


Extremely reasonable price < $20


Cut in-between Brooks Trad & Brooks Slim Fit
Used to have interesting colors, not so much anymore.
Extremely soft collar.

J. Press


Has trademark flap pocket


Somewhat shorter, stiffer collar does not always roll like Brooks


Somewhat boxy cut, between Trad & Slim-fit


Consistently made in USA, but by a variety of makers so some inconsistency.

Ralph Lauren


Available everywhere and at many different quality price levels.


Not always clear what quality level you are getting


Interesting colors


Many different cuts


Short collar points, no roll


Sleeve sizing at 2" intervals.
Gitman Brothers (?)


Heavier sturdier fabric, but wrinkle prone
Cut In between Brooks Traditional fit and Slim fit
Long collar lined (fused?) but still has great roll.
Consistent quality - Gitman makes own OCBD
Consistently priced $100 (?) up
_Gitman Brothers Vintage
_ 

_Hefty and Soft Oxford Cloth, Solid construction_
_Slim fit, approximates BB Slim Fit_
_Locker Loop and Back Button!_
_Heavily fused collar with 3.25" points_
_Each collar size available with only a single sleeve length._
_Fun colors_
Mercer


Made to measure, perfect sizing of sleeves and cuffs
Heavy fabric
Very full cut, can be slimmed but even slim version is fairly full
7 placket front.
Not evil


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## Reds & Tops (Feb 20, 2009)

Thanks for the update, AP. 

Would like to add to your bit on PRL, in terms of specificity:

Yarmouth shirt is sized by neck and sleeve. Sleeve is in 34/35 format. Very generous cut, definitely shorter points. Agree totally on the quality.

Custom fit oxford is s/m/l sizing. I wear 15/34 and the medium is spot on for me. Slim body and shorter length. Definitely lighter cloth than Press/Brethren, with shorter points.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

AldenPyle said:


> Lands End Hyde Park
> 
> Discontinued


The Hyde Park still seems like it's available and only $20 right now. ()


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes, it's AVAILABLE, but discontinued. After these sell off at that low price, they aren't making any more.


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## farrago (Apr 27, 2006)

*New Mercer Colors*

Just got the latest batch of samples.

Georgia Peach and Silver Cloud are new additions.

Looks like it is time to save my pennies and dimes.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Jovan said:


> Yes, it's AVAILABLE, but discontinued. After these sell off at that low price, they aren't making any more.


Ah ha, I knew it must be something like that since I've been hearing about the demise of the Hyde Park for quite some time. Thanks for clarifying.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

The rumours of the Hyde Park's death have not been exaggerated.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

To the write-up, you should add LL Bean's OCBD.

My take on it:

Heavy, wrinkle resistant fabric (but not plastic-feeling)
Nice range of sizes
Nice range of colors, including uni-stripes and tattersals
Excellent price ($30-35)


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Wrinkle resistant is certainly better than wrinkle-FREE. Those fabrics tend to feel like polyester blends from JC Penney even if they're not.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I felt I should bump this thread in light of the fact that the Hyde Park is back.



... and now in Tailored Fit.



Albeit, only in the two major colours. Sorry to the fans of sea foam green, lavender, etc.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Since it was bumped, what about O'Connell's OCBD?


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## goplutus (Jun 4, 2005)

has anyone ordered the "new" LE Hyde Park shirts? curious if they are the same as the "old" ones, or if they switched manufacturers or fabrics at all.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

I've tried all of the full-cut shirts listed with the exception of Mercer, and BB Black Fleece (may not be full cut). I've also tried a number of others including F.A. MacCleur, LL Bean and the original Gitman and Kenneth Gordon, etc. In fact, I have owned several of each over the years. All things considered, if I could wear only one it would be the Brooks Brothers Traditional Supima. I take my OCBDs seriously to the point of obcession and have really given this some thought. While it all comes down to a matter of personal preference a few conclusions I've reached are:

1. Of the shirts I've tried you just can't beat the collar roll or the material of the Brooks Brothers. The "shirring" at the cuff is elegant. Unlike many, I actually like my collar with a little lining.
I just don't like a "floppy" collar and use a lot of starch. Anethma to some, but again...my preference.

2. I find little difference in the retail store version of the BB Supima and the "346" outlet store model with the exception of additional buttons on gauntlet and cuffs and average sleeve sizing.

3. I wish the Brooks Brothers Blue was a bit lighter and "bluer". It looks a bit too dark and has a somewhat grayish tint in some light. At other times it looks just right. Strange. Lightens a bit with time. But--unmistakable.

4. I think Gitman Bros. are great and I like their long collar, material and color. The price difference is just too great (as much as $50 or more when BB is on sale) and I've never found a Gitman Bros. on sale. Brooks tails a little longer which I like. (Still prefer Brooks collar roll.)

5. I've owned more LE Hyde Parks than I would even care to count over the years. Love them. Substantial material, though not as soft as BB or Gitman. Great color--perhaps the best of all. I like the double track stitching on the collar reminiscent of the original Gitmans. The price is unbeatable--probably the most shirt for the money in the country. I like the collar, but over time have developed a greater affection for the slightly longer BB and Gitman collars. Unless I get the tall version the tails are far too short.

6. Given the choice I would buy 2 (or 3) HP's over 1 Gitman.

7. LE original is fine...just not beefy enough for me.

8. PRL is ok...but seems to be headed south in quality control. Wish it had a pocket. Would not wear with a suit...but would with a blazer or sport coat. Wish the collar was longer and had a roll. Can't understand why anyone would choose over a Hyde Park...esp. for the money.

9. Haven't tried new Hyde Parks...stocked up on old ones when I thought they were about to become obsolete. Price has gone up and they are in danger of actually charging what they are worth. Within $10 of BB on sale and that's too close.

10. J Press. Bought one. At $90 I thought it was very over-priced with no single feature to distinguish it from just an average ocbd. If you like the patch pocket feature, I suppose that's fine...but only some of them have it. The one I got did not...nor did I care. I thought it a very pedestrian shirt...esp. at the price point.

That's my take for what it is worth. In a nutshell--BB Original Supima continues to rule. Buy on sale and 3-fer only.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

My experience is that both the "original" and "hyde park" LE oxfords soften up substantially over time. I wasn't impressed with them until they were broken in, now I really like them.

Though you should add that the new ones have fused cuffs and fused front plackets. I like mine to pucker a bit.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

^^^
As I said, to each his own. I would prefer not to have puckers in my shirts. But then, I like starch.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

I've seen the current Hyde Parks on sale pretty recently for $24. I think this was during the Labor Day holiday.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

I have a couple recent Hyde Parks. I reached for one yesterday and was surprised to discover that it was made in China. 

Also, I prefer the LE Original ocbd, which is lighter weight and therefore better suited to my lifestyle. In fact, I've got a recent no-iron BB unistripe and an LE original of similar design. I prefer the LE's cloth: it looks softer and more comfortable (and is) while the BB has a crisper, sharper look but doesn't feel as nice. The price difference was >$35 in favor of the LE.

But a true supima BB... That is a wonderful shirt.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Saltydog: Just say NO to starching shirts, especially OCBDs! It wears down the fabric faster, makes it less comfortable, and is generally a pain in the rear compared to simply ironing a shirt when it's still damp.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Jovan said:


> Saltydog: Just say NO to starching shirts, especially OCBDs! It wears down the fabric faster, makes it less comfortable, and is generally a pain in the rear compared to simply ironing a shirt when it's still damp.


Hey Jovan, have you considered wearing "Sex Appeal by Jovan" ? :icon_smile_big:

I had a relative that would douse himself with this stuff before going out on the town to meet ladies. :icon_pale:


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## Repp Stripe (Oct 6, 2010)

Jovan said:


> Saltydog: Just say NO to starching shirts, especially OCBDs! It wears down the fabric faster, makes it less comfortable, and is generally a pain in the rear compared to simply ironing a shirt when it's still damp.


I'm guessing you won't be talking Saltydog outa starch.

I get the impression he knows what he likes and that he's probably been starching oxfords longer than you or I have been wearing them.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

OCBD is a casual shirt, so I'd prefer that it look like one. A stiff, perfectly fused placket and cuffs takes away from that.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Brio1 said:


> Hey Jovan, have you considered wearing "Sex Appeal by Jovan" ? :icon_smile_big:
> 
> I had a relative that would douse himself with this stuff before going out on the town to meet ladies. :icon_pale:


Just for fun (and to shut my friends up) I used to wear Jovan Musk for Men. It's a pretty good scent. I use Brut right now. Tell your relative that when it comes to cologne, less is more!



Repp Stripe said:


> I'm guessing you won't be talking Saltydog outa starch.
> 
> I get the impression he knows what he likes and that he's probably been starching oxfords longer than you or I have been wearing them.


Probably so. But I'll keep spreading the gospel wherever it is needed. 



PedanticTurkey said:


> OCBD is a casual shirt, so I'd prefer that it look like one. A stiff, perfectly fused placket and cuffs takes away from that.


Agreed.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Repp Stripe said:


> I'm guessing you won't be talking Saltydog outa starch.
> 
> I get the impression he knows what he likes and that he's probably been starching oxfords longer than you or I have been wearing them.


You are correct sir! But, as I say...to each his own. Starching oxfords in the South is the norm from my life long experience so it's not as unusual as you might think.


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