# Gatsby caps vs Flat caps



## rocco (Feb 21, 2007)

Opinions on these? Who makes the best examples? Do they suit better people with small heads or large heads?




Or is the flat cap a better option? Which did Windsor wear?


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

You may be interested in Lawrence & Foster, the capmaker I use. They make for James Lock among others, and the prices are reasonable.

I wrote about them the other day.

https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2007/11/sources-lawrence-foster.html


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I much prefer the flat caps over the newsboy or other bigger styled caps. I turned off on the latter after they started making them in hot pink and the gals started wearing them. Nothing against the gals, mind you; I just prefer that we don't wear the same headgear. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I prefer the flat or "county" cap to the puffy newsboy cap myself. The newsboy just somehow looks a little costumey to my eye.

Recently bought my 2nd James Lock county cap from Wm. Fox here in DC. It's a discreet gunclub check to go with the herringbone/windowpane that I bought last year.


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

I find myself agreeing with Cruiser. Stranger things have happened!


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

Will said:


> You may be interested in Lawrence & Foster, the capmaker I use. They make for James Lock among others, and the prices are reasonable.
> 
> I wrote about them the other day.
> 
> https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2007/11/sources-lawrence-foster.html


Thanks for the link and your fascinating blog!


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Lacoppola Storta Soji is a bit eccentric in styling, but they make very nice caps.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Bob Loblaw said:


> I find myself agreeing with Cruiser. Stranger things have happened!


Yea, right! Though I too rather liked a flat cap, until the wife mentioned it added 15 years to my appearance. On the other hand she finds my Stetson Temple hat invests me with a bit of a devilish, slightly foreboding appearance, while she also claims I look like a "Dork" wearing my Tilly hat. I guess I'll stick with the Stetson! (winks)


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## the etruscan (Mar 9, 2007)

Will said:


> You may be interested in Lawrence & Foster, the capmaker I use. They make for James Lock among others, and the prices are reasonable.
> 
> I wrote about them the other day.
> 
> https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2007/11/sources-lawrence-foster.html


You should be warned that, while they have a web site, it is not fully operational yet. From speaking to them today, it appears that I am the first to have placed a web order, and while they are making my cap already, I can't pay for it, and they won't ship it, until their CC processing vendor gets their site working.

They expect to be up and running in about a week, I will update this when I hear from them.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

As Will's link indicates, there is not a standard configuration for flat caps.

The UK contemporary classic (oxymoron?) seems to be a narrow, elongated one with relatively deep back. Lock calls the shape "Gill"

You may notice in old English movies that at one time a relatively large pancake shaped flat cap was popular, probably emulating the golfing style of Edward VIII. Lock calls a somewhat smaller shape "Turnberry"

Lock's caps > www.lockhatters.co.uk/Tweed_amp_Cashmere_Caps-c42.aspx

Most Italian made flat caps are similar to the shape Lock calls "Glen"

Should Donegal tweed interest you, the eBay seller "irecrafts" offers new Hanna hats and caps at prices considerably less than the maker www.hannahats.com

At a modest price most Marshalls have "Weatherproof" brand flat caps, similar in shape to Lock's "Gill", in Brit-appearing wool tweeds @ $9.95. Made in China. Availability varies by store. T J Maxx often has similar "Weatherproof" caps. Other cap brands at these stores do not have the Weatherproof's shape and fit.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> I too rather liked a flat cap, until the wife mentioned it added 15 years to my appearance.


Interesting because it's just the opposite in my case, at least according to everyone around me. I guess it's because it covers up my bald head. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Irecrafts is selling the exact Hanna hat that I have, at a much better price than I paid at Noggintops.com. I really like it.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

I wear this cap with my Barbour Bedale:

Wearing it may make me look older, but I don't really care because I _am_ older.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

While almost all of my caps come from here https://villagehatshop.com/
the one I wear most often is a narrow wale black corduroy ivy cap I found at KMart for $6.00 a couple of years ago. It's going to be a sad day for me when that puppy is worn out.

Cruiser


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

this old retired guy wears the only good cap. the greek fisherman.
actually its worn by fishermen in more countries than any other.
consider the number of countries that a particular style of headgear is worn.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

I picked up a couple of these Harrison Hillhouse driving caps on STP a while back and have been wearing them in situations that, in the past, I might have worn a ballcap. No one has really commented on them one way or the other. I got the olive tweed and the brown herringbone tweed ones (in XL to fit my big head).




(Oh and Eagle, I just picked up my second Stetson Temple this week. I have the olive and the grey now.)


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## Micawber (Nov 9, 2006)

I have a number of tweed flat caps that I wear when I'm out and about in the country. The newsboy type are not my style nor common around here although I did notice some in one of our better local outfitters earlier this week.


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## the etruscan (Mar 9, 2007)

jamgood said:


> Lock's caps > www.lockhatters.co.uk/Tweed_amp_Cashmere_Caps-c42.aspx


I hate you for this! I am so broke now.


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Yea, right! Though I too rather liked a flat cap, until the wife mentioned it added 15 years to my appearance. On the other hand she finds my Stetson Temple hat invests me with a bit of a devilish, slightly foreboding appearance, while she also claims I look like a "Dork" wearing my Tilly hat. I guess I'll stick with the Stetson! (winks)


Pictures please. I don't want 15 years older or to look like a dork. My wife wouldn't say anything and my daughter is off at college. If I end up with a bad hat, I will hear about it from my daughter the entire Christmas break.


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## dprof (Jul 15, 2006)

I think these hats look great. It helps if you can hit an iron shot like Ben Hogan.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

the etruscan said:


> I hate you for this! I am so broke now.


Awaiting a hand calligraphed cream linen invite to Balmoral which must have been lost in the post.........















( www.lockhatters.co.uk/Tweed___Cashmere_Caps-Cashmere_Gill-P93.aspx )

For stalking the elusive Lizard Man of Bishopville or perhaps a riparian repast?









Ben Silver would appear to be sourcing its flat caps from Lawrence & Foster (used to stock Lock). www.bensilver.com/fs_storefront.asp?root=66&show=139

Unfortunately Paul Stuart is apparently not offering a flat cap in croc. Perchance Rolf?.....


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

This Windsor prefers the flat cap. That photo above looks like something resembling a turtle shell. Could be very functional though.


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## rocco (Feb 21, 2007)

And... how are flat caps in windy weather?


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

*Won't wear my new cap again*

I really liked my new cap until this evening. Wore it on Michigan Avenue tonight. I accidentally bumped a woman in a crowd. She then call me an "Old F**k." First time in my life I have ever been called old. Probably not the first time I have ever been called the other.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

gng8 said:


> I really liked my new cap until this evening. Wore it on Michigan Avenue tonight. I accidentally bumped a woman in a crowd. She then call me an "Old F**k." First time in my life I have ever been called old. Probably not the first time I have ever been called the other.


Certainly wasn't a lady and I'm going to say with a mouth like that she wasn't even a woman. Pay no mind to such people.


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

I'm 24 and I wear a twed flat cap. I don't think it makes me look old.


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## the etruscan (Mar 9, 2007)

Given how trendy tweeds and twills are right now, I'm surprised there's such concern about looking old with a tweed flat cap. Eugenia Kim is doing bundles of them (elastic banded and at least as much as Lock hats, ah well).


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

gng8 said:


> I really liked my new cap until this evening. Wore it on Michigan Avenue tonight. I accidentally bumped a woman in a crowd. She then call me an "Old F**k."


Whether we like it or not these type caps are generally favored by older men and there is a stereotype here. I have been wearing them since my late 20's; but I had long hair back then and with faded jeans and sneakers it was apparent that I was not an older man, although I do remember some good natured kidding about the "old man" cap.

I still wear them today; however, I am nearly 60 and bald on top so I don't get the old man comments anymore. Well, I do get them but not because of the caps. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

You can wear a flat cap at any age. Just please don't wear it backwards.


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

I have both. 
I find the newsboy can be a bit much, especially with a tweed jacket or suit. I feel like an ad for the tweed industry council. A simple flat cap is a bit cleaner.

I used B! Wear to make a bunch of newsboys for me from a length of tweed and he did a pretty good job and was very inexpensive.
I also recommend David Rodriguez in New York. This guy does excellent quality work and is very creative, even with a simple flat cap. The variety of linings and trimmings he can use and the skill with which he designs makes him worth the trip.


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Whether we like it or not these type caps are generally favored by older men and there is a stereotype here.


In the US what caps or hats don't age you? I can't find one.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

gng8 said:


> In the US what caps or hats don't age you? I can't find one.


Baseball caps. I have about a half dozen Harley-Davidson caps plus an assortment of caps from the college and pro football teams that I support, and I have worn them for many years without any comment from anyone; however, let me put on one of my flat caps and someone almost always kids me about it in terms of my looking like an old man.

Cruiser


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

For Harris tweed hats I would also suggest this website:


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Baseball caps. I have about a half dozen Harley-Davidson caps plus an assortment of caps from the college and pro football teams that I support, and I have worn them for many years without any comment from anyone; however, let me put on one of my flat caps and someone almost always kids me about it in terms of my looking like an old man.
> 
> Cruiser


Unfortunately I seem to be finding you are correct. I don't mind the baseball caps but won't wear one with a coat and tie. Guess I will just have to be old when I am appropriately dressed.


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

I sometimes get ribbed about my 'old man's hat'. I reply that I prefer British caps to American caps. Normally that shuts people up while they think it through.


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## the etruscan (Mar 9, 2007)

Will said:


> You may be interested in Lawrence & Foster, the capmaker I use. They make for James Lock among others, and the prices are reasonable.
> 
> I wrote about them the other day.
> 
> https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2007/11/sources-lawrence-foster.html


I finally got my cap from Lawrence & Foster end of last week. It is gorgeous. However, my self measurement for my hat size was slightly wrong, so it's a snug. Looks like I need to go up 1 centimeter for the next try.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Different terminology in the UK.

'Newsboy' or 'Gatsby' are not terms used for the fuller caps. I am not sure what they are called - if anything. Fuller caps are often seen on the race course set.

Smaller caps are sometimes called 'cheesecutter' caps. Especially the type worn by Leslie Phillips in those 1950s films where he is chasing skirt and driving an MG or Triumph.

Headgear had huge class associations in the UK. Flat cap used to be working class but is probably one of the few pieces of headgear that you could wear that would not now have class implications. I hate seeing woollen bobble hats or baseball caps on an otherwise well-dressed person, but it would take a lot of confidence to wear a proper hat these days and you can get away without something on your head for all but a few cold days in the year.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mark from Plano said:


> ...(Oh and Eagle, I just picked up my second Stetson Temple this week. I have the olive and the grey now.)


Outstanding! Having seen your cruise pictures from another thread, you seem to have the face and head shape that would be very nicely showcased by a Stetson Temple! Your next will have to be in the mink color.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> Outstanding! Having seen your cruise pictures from another thread, you seem to have the face and head shape that would be very nicely showcased by a Stetson Temple! Your next will have to be in the mink color.


Since posting that message, I've now picked up my third in the tawny color (got it at the local Hatco outlet for about $48). Mink is yet to come.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

One of the characteristic's of posters who frequent these fora, that most impresses me, is their persistant courage to wear what they enjoy, in spite of what nay-sayers might observe. Given that and my obsessive affinity for tweed, there will be a flat cap in my future. When the wife reacts, I'm gonna blam it on you guys and then...may gawd help you all! (winks!)


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Now I *need* to have a Grouse hat from Lock! Until then, my thrifted LLBean bucket hat in harris tweed will ahve to suffice!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mark from Plano said:


> Since posting that message, I've now picked up my third in the tawny color (got it at the local Hatco outlet for about $48). Mink is yet to come.


Now I'm starting to get envious...that is an incredibly good price for a Stetson Temple! Do you find yourself getting a lot of use out of the olive hued hat?


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Try your local J Crew, which had several flat caps on clearance for ~$10 recently (ie, a couple of weeks ago). I got some patch tweed flat caps from them and like them quite a bit.

Some of the guys at Fedora Lounge recommend Hat People along with BWear (linked by Dopey above).


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## Pluto (May 27, 2007)

I am in Germany, and young and old wear flat caps here.

I have several Gills from Lock. I adore them and keep me warm, although when I put them on I have the habit of putting on a thick Yorkshire accent and telling people to get off my land.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Can anyone identify the manufacturer of Barbour's flat caps? Or recommend a merchant with a nice selection? (US or UK) My favorite Barbour cap is beginning to show significant wear. It has a generous volume that fits better over my head than others. My Christie caps have the correct circumference, but do not set down far enough to feel really secure and comfortable.

Many thanks,

Scott


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Now I'm starting to get envious...that is an incredibly good price for a Stetson Temple! Do you find yourself getting a lot of use out of the olive hued hat?


I recently decided to get Temples in mink (brown) and caribou (gray), and find that I like them quite a bit.

At times I feel a bit self-conscious wearing a hat--I tend to take my hat off and carry it even in places where that's not strictly necessary (stores, malls, building lobbies)--and for a long time thought of myself as not a "hat person" (ballcaps don't count).

But I find that having a shaved head kind of makes the decision for you, as protection against the sun, wind, and cold rises to a new level of necessity when your cabeza is absolutely, positively _sans cheveux_. Next up is a decent-quality Panama for summer.

On the original topic, I own about 8 tweed driving caps, the two nicest of which are Lock's I bought at Wm. Fox & Co. in DC. An easy cap to deal with, as you can just fold it up and stick it in your overcoat pocket when you don't need it. Don't think I'd ever wear one of those oversized "newsboy" caps, though--IMO they're a bit too far to the side of costumey, and I'd feel like I was channeling Joe Don Baker as "The Whammer" in _The Natural._


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PJC in NoVa said:


> At times I feel a bit self-conscious wearing a hat--I tend to take my hat off and carry it even in places where that's not strictly necessary (stores, malls, building lobbies)--and for a long time thought of myself as not a "hat person" (ballcaps don't count).


I first wore a hat in the military; therefore, I learned that you do not wear it indoors. In fact, the first time I walked into the Enlisted Club with my hat on and had to buy a round for everyone at the bar I learned that lesson really well.

But I digress. I generally don't wear a hat or cap indoors, but I do usually keep my hat on in the type places that you mention. Unless I actually enter a place of business such as as an office or restaurant, or someone's home, I leave my hat or cap on. As I understand things it isn't a breach of good manners to keep your hat on in a place like a nightclub these days given that it doesn't tend to be as intimate as an office or restaurant.

Cruiser


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## sjm (Oct 6, 2007)

*Fatheads Unite, or the Ungreat Gatsby*

_"Can anyone identify the manufacturer of Barbour's flat caps? Or recommend a merchant with a nice selection? (US or UK)"_

It may be of little use to those who cannot visit England, but my neighbourhood hatter, Locks, make tweed flat caps in several shapes, including one that is slightly broader, for we large headed fellows who, in narrow-width caps, tend to look as though we suffer from hydrocephalus. A lucky, narrow-faced cove can make do with anything, I think, and the nine-quid models off the barrow seem no worse than the sixty-quid jobs in St James'es, but I could be mistaken

In my club, most hat wearing members seem to prefer brown, narrow-brimmed racing hats. One or two of the unusually rich and dapper top their fine Savile Row suits with the better end of Borcelinos (which they buy in Italy to save money. Go figure). Many go bareheaded, particularly those of us too old to tell if it is pissing down outside. A few of us wear caps, particularly when it is raining, but those are all flat caps. The other kind, so-called Gatsbys, would be uncommon although our members would be too polite to comment.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

sjm said:


> my neighbourhood hatter, Locks, make tweed flat caps in several shapes, including one that is slightly broader, for we large headed fellows who, in narrow-width caps, tend to look as though we suffer from hydrocephalus.


For what it's worth I wear a size 7 5/8 and I struggle with just the opposite, most flat caps in that size (or XL if so sized) actually tend to look larger than I like. That could be because I am otherwise a fairly small guy (5'9" 145 lbs), but most caps look huge on me. The best ones I've found are some very inexpensive ones that I get online from The Village Hat Shop that I actually like better than their more expensive offerings. This is one that cost about $15. Sorry for the poor picture quality.

https://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0038gi8.gif

I think it appears proportional to my head size. What do you think?

Cruiser


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## miro (Jan 31, 2005)

Peter Elliot in NYC, Madison & 81st , has a great linen flat cap ; $90.
Colors are Navy or Natural.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> I think it appears proportional to my head size. What do you think?
> 
> Cruiser


I think you should try a larger cap with a shape more flattering to your head shape. That one looks like a pancake fell on your head :icon_smile_big:

Without any shadow of doubt, the finest tweed caps I own come from here:

I have provide a link once and I will reiterate now. The reason why they are good is that the tweed they use is vastly superior to what Lock & Co use, for example. I have my profoundest doubt that any of the caps from other sources found in this thread use such fine tweed as they source.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

gng8 said:


> Unfortunately I seem to be finding you are correct. I don't mind the baseball caps but won't wear one with a coat and tie. Guess I will just have to be old when I am appropriately dressed.


Baseball cap with a jacket is the "Michael Moore" look. I go out of my way not to go down that path. The instant I do it, even as an anti-sun expedient, I feel really fat.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Sator said:


> I think you should try a larger cap with a shape more flattering to your head shape. That one looks like a pancake fell on your head :icon_smile_big:


I appreciate your assessment Sator (I think :icon_smile_big. It's interesting because I go out of my way to find flat caps that are just that, flat. I have some that are more full on top but find that I prefer the ones that are more flat. I'll try wearing some of the others more and see if there are any comments one way or the other.

I guess I take the word "flat" in flat cap more seriously.:icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

My girlfriend's 84 year old dad wears these types of caps, so I can't help associating them with old folks...or Britney Spears:


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