# New Cramerton Cloth chinos from Orvis?



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

(via Sartorially Inclined)

"8.2-oz. pure cotton chino twill, woven by Gayley & Lord to the US Army standard established in 1929"

Certainly sounds like it. Good to see Orvis adding more "made in USA" stuff.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

I like the idea that this cloth is making a come back. Dockers gave it try a litte while back covered in different Blogs includings the TRAD. 

Here is an ad from the sixties just for fun


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Sure, but for $169? That's almost two pairs of Bills. Not worth it.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Bean did some Cramerton cloth chinos a couple years back. I tried them but didn't like them, although it was the cut, not the cloth. I am sure the cloth is fine. I am not among the folks who spend $170 for chinos, but if I were I am sure these would be perfectly nice.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

I thought Bean did a pant in Cramerton. Do you remember their price point?



Danny said:


> Bean did some Cramerton cloth chinos a couple years back. I tried them but didn't like them, although it was the cut, not the cloth. I am sure the cloth is fine. I am not among the folks who spend $170 for chinos, but if I were I am sure these would be perfectly nice.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Trousers probably by (Julius) Hertling Trousers, Brooklyn. Hertling makes a lot of better private label trousers. Used to also tailor suits.

www.cramerton.org/facts-figures/about


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

interesting link - thanks.


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## red sweatpants (Jun 19, 2010)

Interesting. I wonder how they fit.

RE: Hertling, I believe Epaulet has their trousers made here as well and they're great.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Be patient...they will go on a two for one sale...that is when I will buy mine! As for the comparison to Bill's, the Orvis price for the Cramerton cloth chinos is not much more than I paid for Bill's Anniversary Twills or for their presently offered Bullard Field pants.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Pentheos said:


> Sure, but for $169? That's almost two pairs of Bills. Not worth it.


Part of the added cost most likely comes from the fact that the Orvis pair are made in the U.S.A. of American-made fabric, while Bills are made in the U.S.A. of imported fabric. Additionally, the Cramerton Cloth pair are made of a proprietary weave, which is only available from one company (Gayley & Lord).

I think really the comparison to make is first, is the price comparable to other chinos made in the U.S.A. of American-made fabric (Who else is even making these? Any ideas?), and then whether or not Cramerton Cloth outperforms a standard cotton twill of the same weight.

I'd be interested to know whether or not the Orvis pair have been "enzyme washed" or pre-distressed somehow.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

katon said:


> Part of the added cost most likely comes from the fact that the Orvis pair are made in the U.S.A. of American-made fabric, while Bills are made in the U.S.A. of imported fabric. Additionally, the Cramerton Cloth pair are made of a proprietary weave, which is only available from one company (Gayley & Lord).
> 
> I think really the comparison to make is first, is the price comparable to other chinos made in the U.S.A. of American-made fabric (Who else is even making these? Any ideas?), and then whether or not Cramerton Cloth outperforms a standard cotton twill of the same weight.
> 
> I'd be interested to know whether or not the Orvis pair have been "enzyme washed" or pre-distressed somehow.


Since you brought these to our attention, why don't you buy a pair, find out for yourself, and report back to us?


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

I haven't worn out my old khakis yet.  Anyhow, they're not available until the .

Not to be outdone, Dockers is doing an American-made Cramerton cloth khaki, a re-issue of the K1. Theirs, sadly, is retailed for $250, around 30% more expensive than the Orvis ones (possibly to pay for the ammunition box they're shipped in  ), and are proudly enzyme washed.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

I have two pairs of ten year old Docker K1s made with the Cramerton cloth and they wear like iron. Still getting near $200 for a pair of chinos is getting a little rich for me. Then again people are paying well north of $200 for jeans made from Japanese raw denim. 

For me I think I can live with Bill's at my upper limit for what I'm willing to pay for chinos.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

More info, from a very helpful Ms. Schlotthober over at Orvis:


> Thank you for your interest in our Brooklyn Army Base Chinos, 3K62 the fabric is a slub twill cloth usually dyed up in Indigo and used in denim jeans; and dyed it khaki and finished to a "aged well washed look".
> 
> You may be interested in our Ambulance Driver's Twill Pants made in USA $149.00 , the fabric has been washed, but not aged or distressed.




"Based on trousers that date to World War II, these pants are crafted in America from tough-yet-breathable pure cotton drill cloth imported from England. Authentic details, including side-seam pockets, button-flap rear pockets, and a tailored notch in the waistband at the center-back seam. Right-front watch pocket. Button-through front closure. Men's vintage style military pants in lovat, tan. Pure cotton. Washable. USA."

Cheaper, and with English-woven cloth? Sounds very promising. Plus, unlike Bills they have button flap pockets.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Ambulance drivers look great. If anyone gets one, give a review!


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

*Howdy...*

... https://shop.americanranchwear.com/1810-Ranch-Trousers-1810.htm ???


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

Those might be very nice, I'm not anti-pleat myself. I would like to see them without the "cowboy" inseam length.


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## alcon (Apr 15, 2005)

Just noted the $189.00 price for the Orvis. Isn't that higher than first thought?


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## red sweatpants (Jun 19, 2010)

Has anyone given these a try yet? The price is still high, and it doesn't help that they are not currently carrying them in-store in NYC, but I'm curious to see them in action.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Bill's are trying it this year also https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/search.php?q=cramerton


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