# Disappointed by Chris Despos



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

I just wanted to vent/rant... What ever happened to honesty and pleasantness in business dealings?

I had a blazer of considerable quality, value, and importance to me, which needed a couple of specific alterations, and I wanted to be sure it was done with utmost skill.

I happen to have recently moved right near Chris Despos' place, and after him having been recommended to me by someone who had utilized him for an alteration previously, and reading about him on here (and another forum), I decided to pay him a visit and see if he'd agree to do the job for me (knowing full well how expensive it would be if he agreed).

I stopped in, and fortunately Chris was not otherwise engaged at the moment. I began to explain my purpose for being there and what I was hoping to have done, when he abruptly interrupted me. He said "I don't do alterations." At this point, I said I was sorry, I had heard that he occasionally would do alterations work, but I understood and I started to thank him for his time. At which point he said extremely curtly, "_I have *never* done alterations_. _Here's the name of a tailor who will take your business_."

I was not upset in the least that he didn't want to do the work; he could have a zillion legitimate reasons for not wanting to. What I was peeved about was that he lied directly to my face. I know _firsthand _that he has done alterations before, and yet here he was telling me that he hadn't. Why on earth couldn't he have smiled and said "I'm sorry, I'm no longer accepting any alterations work?"

Perhaps I'm being prissy, but when I decide to spend 5k+ on a high-end bespoke suit, I am extremely unlikely to even consider using Despos. If he lied about something like this, why should I think he would be honest in dealing with him for bespoke clothing? Hell, I think I'd rather pay 1-1.5k extra on a few trips to/from NYC for fittings if I had to...

/vent


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

You have always been a responsible poster. 

I do wonder why you had to post this. While I have never been able to afford bespoke tailoring, I have met Chris and talked with him extensively over a weekend. 

I have never had this impression of Chris. I don't know what went wrong with your meeting, but I can assure you that there is a good side to him.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> You have always been a responsible poster.
> 
> I do wonder why you had to post this. While I have never been able to afford bespoke tailoring, I have met Chris and talked with him extensively over a weekend.
> 
> I have never had this impression of Chris. I don't know what went wrong with your meeting, but I can assure you that there is a good side to him.


I don't intend to malign the man as evil/satan, nor do I wish to impugn his reputation for fine tailoring (by all accounts, he is masterful). However, being lied to is something that I do not appreciate, particularly when it is by someone who I am considering paying money to for something. Perhaps he was having a bad day, I don't know; it doesn't change the fact that I was looked at in the eye and lied to. Throughout the approximately 5 minutes that I
spoke with him (maybe even less), I was polite, and was not even planning on pushing the issue with him. Had he simply said "I don't accept alteration jobs" I would have shook his hand with a smile and bid him a good day and not thought twice about it (though I did wish him a good day with a smile on my face); why he couldn't simply say that, I have no idea and it is distressing to me.

In no way is this meant to be sarcastic or snide, but I don't quite understand why this post is in conflict with being a responsible poster. I posted my experience with a business, which led me to question the proprietor's integrity/honesty. I can only go off of my personal experiences. I believe that businesses deserve to be evaluated based on customer experiences, and honesty is an important part of that to me. If a million people want to tell me he is upright and honest, I am more than willing to listen. But I do believe that my experience is no less important than the experience of anyone else.


----------



## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Whether Chris is nice or not is irrelevant. Scotch & Cigars is relating his experience and there is absolutely nothing irresponsible about that.


----------



## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

S&C,

You should have said that so and so, your source, had some work done, and that is why you are asking. No need to be rude, and no need to pussy foot around.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

Edwin Ek said:


> S&C,
> 
> You should have said that so and so, your source, had some work done, and that is why you are asking. No need to be rude, and no need to pussy foot around.


I did mention that I had heard that he had done work in the past (without mentioning a name), but I didn't want to press the issue after it became clear that he was uninterested in accepting the work. That, and I saw no additional benefit to calling him out on the fabrication; it surely wouldn't have changed his mind in any case.

I try to save the verbal warfare for my profession ;-)


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Your post was your impression and not irresponsible. 

You just had not ever posted anything quite like that before and I was surprised by it.

I did want to mention there was another side to him. Maybe you just caught him on a bad day.


----------



## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

I agree with Alex. Just because Despos has been around a long time and because he has a solid reputation does not mean he is without reproach. Sadly I have seen this kind of attitude all my career when dealing with a lot of older tailors. I think they get to a critical mass with clientele, become fairly wealthy and start thinking they are on a par with their extremely "important" clients. In short I think it goes to their head talking to aristocrats and politicians.

Scotch and cigars If you can venture to New York Myself and Rory would be happy to have your business. I don't want to be opportunist about this or throw Despos under the bus, but I really find it annoying as someone who bends over backwards in dealing with clients. When I was a store manager I used to tell the "kids" that we are always polite to clients because it makes good business sense, and also because we are decent human beings.

DAVID REEVES MODERN ENGLISH TAILOR

Check out My Blog:

https://davidreevesbespoke.wordpress.com/


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Your post was your impression and not irresponsible.
> 
> You just had not ever posted anything quite like that before and I was surprised by it.
> 
> I did want to mention there was another side to him. Maybe you just caught him on a bad day.


Well, I do try to shy away from things like that, I generally try to let most things in life slide. But this was so blatant and so disappointing given the man's reputation, that I felt the need to share. I'm more dismayed and disappointed than anything.

I do appreciate you pointing out that there is another side to him; I realize that my impressions, while justified, may not accurately represent reality.


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Chris Despos is a bespoke tailor. He is not an alternationist. I think it is a huge insult to demand petty alterations work from a bespoke tailor. This is like ordering a Big Mac with fries at a top class restaurant, and getting upset when the order is refused.

I think the blight is against the OP's name for this behaviour and not against Chris Despos.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

Sator said:


> Chris Despos is a bespoke tailor. He is not an alternationist. I think it is a huge insult to demand petty alterations work from a bespoke tailor. This is like ordering a Big Mac with fries at a top class restaurant, and getting upset when the order is refused.
> 
> I think the blight is against the OP's name for this behaviour and not against Chris Despos.


I'm (obviously) going to have to disagree here.

1) The _only_ reason I went to Despos was because I had heard from people who had "petty alterations" done by Despos that he was marvelous and that I should without question use him. If it is a huge insult, it is one that Despos himself invited by previously accepting such work. One can't fault someone for wanting the best possible man altering his clothing, when he has a reputation for doing that sort of work to begin with.

2) This was no "petty alteration" work to begin with. It was an expensive jacket, that has great sentimental value to me. I knew what I wanted done, and I wanted it done by someone I trusted not to destroy a piece of clothing that I hope to pass down to my future son (should I be so blessed). If it is an insult to wish to entrust something like that...

Regardless, even if I were to accept your proposition for argument's sake: does it excuse dishonesty? When one is the proprietor of a business, reputation is key. I would never wish to cultivate a reputation for dishonesty, no matter how petty, in the course of owning a business.


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

All RTW alterations is petty work. Even the best "high-end" RTW garments are pretty crappy. 

I also know that from internet chatter that Chris Despos has done alterations work as a special personal favour for some long-standing bespoke clients of good repute. Heck, I know this and I live on the other side of the planet and have never met Chris! I've never even been to Chicago. How someone can live up the road and still not know that he is a bespoke tailor baffles me.

The other thing you need to know is that in a busy bespoke workshop alterations work messes up the schedule. It means that it slows down delivery of garments to your real clients. It is important to throw time wasters who demand alterations work out onto the street. Otherwise, you end up losing money.

David Reeves will correct me if I am misinformed but please keep in mind that David is not fully trained as a bespoke tailor or cutter able to make a suit from start to finish on his own. He is, from my understanding, mostly a front man and salesman who contracts out his work to other parties. He is probably happy to take your garments to an alterations man to whom he contracts out, while charging you an additional handling fee. If David were a tailor doing his own work in-house, he would refuse or staunchly avoid alteration work. That is, David and Chris work in different set-ups and no fair comparison can be made.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

Sator said:


> All RTW alterations is petty work. Even the best "high-end" RTW garments are pretty crappy.


Explain to me exactly how it is you know the nature of the garment to be altered?



Sator said:


> I also know that from internet chatter that Chris Despos has done alterations work as a special personal favour for some long-standing bespoke clients of good repute. Heck, I know this and I live on the other side of the planet and have never met Chris! I've never even been to Chicago. How someone can live up the road and still not know that he is a bespoke tailor baffles me.


I know that he is a bespoke tailor (and never claimed not to know). That doesn't change the fact that he has taken alterations work in the past, including from someone I know firsthand (who, I do not believe, was a bespoke customer).



Sator said:


> The other thing you need to know is that in a busy bespoke workshop alterations work messes up the schedule. It means that it slows down delivery of garments to your real clients. It is important to throw time wasters who demand alterations work out onto the street.


A true proprietor doesn't treat some people like "real clients" and others like "not-real clients" (whatever the hell that means anyway). My pro bono clients get the same amount of effort and time from me as my paying clients.

And all is well and good if Despos sees me as a "time waster" to be "thrown onto the street." The fact of the matter is that sooner rather than later, I will be in the market for bespoke clothing. And being treated like such does not much make me want to patronize his business when I am in that market. And it is likely to cause me to steer others I know in the market toward other options. A savvy businessman will treat every person that walks through his door as a potential customer to be had, and accordingly, act with grace, class, and unimpeachable integrity.

My father once taught me to speak to every person with respect, because you never know when you'll need something from that person, or even be their subordinate. The same, in my opinion, goes for business owners, in a manner of speaking.

I prefer to patronize individuals who know how to act toward human beings, regardless if someone just wasted a measly 3.5 minutes of their time.


----------



## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

I agree with those who think the post is proper. It points to something that would be a sore spot for me if I did not always walk away from situations where it occurs or begins to occur. At the higher end, I believe we are really buying or paying more than we actually need. For whatever reasons, it gives some of us pleasure to have the best - or nearly the best. Many of the craftsmen, artists, sales associates and others involved in these transactions understand that process as well as product is part of excellence. Some few do not. Nobody expects fawning or obsequiousness, but a pleasant, businesslike attitude that demonstrates respect for the customer's role - bringing in money - is appropriate and, I think, deserved. Everybody has bad days, but nobody who deals with good customers, or those who could become good customers, should have a bad attitude.


----------



## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Sator said:


> All RTW alterations is petty work. Even the best "high-end" RTW garments are pretty crappy.
> 
> I also know that from internet chatter that Chris Despos has done alterations work as a special personal favour for some long-standing bespoke clients of good repute. Heck, I know this and I live on the other side of the planet and have never met Chris! I've never even been to Chicago. How someone can live up the road and still not know that he is a bespoke tailor baffles me.
> 
> ...


David Reeves the company and the man works hand in hand with an in house Bespoke tailor and cutter namely Rory Duffy. This set up is no different from any number of high end firms as well you know. Bespoke clients need to be looked after, they are usually quite busy and important people. I work full time at this and work very hard, Rory is in his studio making suits because that's his talent. At the end of the day its my name on the garments, I defy you to find a paying client of mine who was dissatisfied with my service or the work that the company produces.

DAVID REEVES MODERN ENGLISH TAILOR

Check out My Blog:

https://davidreevesbespoke.wordpress.com/


----------



## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

ughhh. Its late Im staying up waiting to post on my blog about Cleverley. Not figured out how to schedule the blog yet. Goes up around 12.00

......stay up for that one guys.

DAVID REEVES MODERN ENGLISH TAILOR

Check out My Blog:

https://davidreevesbespoke.wordpress.com/


----------



## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

S&C no issues with your post.
Bottom line is you were lied to, not what you would expect from someone you might be doing business with.
The individual could have just as easily stated they rarely do alterations and they simply don't have the time at the moment. After looking at what you wanted to have done he could have reassured you that they individual they were recommending could do it.


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

mrp said:


> Bottom line is you were lied to, not what you would expect from someone you might be doing business with.


Sorry, it's early in the morning and this made me chuckle. Have you guys done business in America?


----------



## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

Cardinals5 said:


> Sorry, it's early in the morning and this made me chuckle. Have you guys done business in America?


 Everyday, as I don't lie to folks I deal with, I expect the same from them.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
The OP incorporates several assumptions that may or may not be accurate. When Mr Despos is quoted as saying, "I don't do alterations," was he in fact saying 'I don't do alterations on clothing that was not originally crafted by me', or 'that was not presented to me for alteration by an existing customer', or any one of a number of other possible permutations of the attributed proclamation. The OP's declaration that "he lied directly to my face" is perhaps the most unfortunate, and to me at least, offensive assumption of the lot, as it unnecessarily and just perhaps without foundation, impugns a man's good name. Gentlemen, we should all choose our words as carefully as we wish others to do!



Scotch&Cigars said:


> I just wanted to vent/rant... What ever happened to honesty and pleasantness in business dealings?
> 
> I had a blazer of considerable quality, value, and importance to me, which needed a couple of specific alterations, and I wanted to be sure it was done with utmost skill.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Some bespoke tailors doing budget class bespoke (there have always been different classes of tailoring) do offer alterations work. In many cases, the shop earns its keep as much from alterations as from bespoke work.

The only time high class bespoke tailors take on alterations work is because they are happy to take the loss that goes with this work in the hope that the client may be persuaded to try the bespoke service. The more a shop is geared towards making a significant output of high end bespoke garments, the harder this becomes. I wonder how many Savile Row bespoke tailoring firms would take on alterations work? Probably not many. 

Chris Despos standard of work is actually unusually high - even higher than the majority of Savile Row firms. He has every right to concentrate on satisfying his bespoke clientèle and avoid having his workshop getting bogged down with time-wasting distractions. I applaud Chris for his dedication to true high end bespoke tailoring and to his true clients.

However, because the average person knows no distinction between the local Chinese laundry's alteration tailoring and high end bespoke tailoring, Chris doubtless puts up with lots of idiotic inquiries asking for trousers to be hemmed, waists to be taken in etc. Given how little respect that bespoke tailors get from people, it's little wonder that Chris kicked the OP out of his store.


----------



## 14395 (Mar 10, 2004)

I haven't had time to read all the posts there but
See post #29 in this thread. Of course it's from
a few years back, but the word "never" doesn't
expire.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?62761-Has-anyone-used-Chris-Despos


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I have no dog in this fight, but I think, Sator, that you may be missing the point. Of course Mr. Despos has the right to refuse any project not to his liking, whether it be a bespoke commission for Osama bin Laden, an alteration to an OTR jacket, or a repair to a toilet in a nearby apartment. Nobody would dispute that. The subject of discussion seems to be the manner in which he declined the project, including his statements as to past work. Now, I suspect that Mr. Despos' understanding of his own words was truthful, just as I believe that the OP genuinely found them to contradict what he knew to be the facts - I express no opinion as to who is right or wrong on that score.


----------



## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

But it is true: Chris only does alterations as a special favour to his old clients. It is a _favour_ because this sort of work causes him to lose money.

All bespoke tailors do alterations. They alter they own work all the time eg a client gains weight so you let out the trousers. So if that's what you meant then Chris is certainly a liar.

I still think it is petty to start a thread criticising Chris' precise wording and acting like a lawyer cross examining someone, picking on every word. At the end of the day the OP is just sour because Chris turned him down. I think that Chris is being truthful in that he has never routinely accepted alterations work except as a special favour to someone under specific circumstances.


----------



## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Mr Despos has a right to turn down work and you have a right never to go back. Get over it.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> The OP incorporates several assumptions that may or may not be accurate. When Mr Despos is quoted as saying, "I don't do alterations," was he in fact saying 'I don't do alterations on clothing that was not originally crafted by me', or 'that was not presented to me for alteration by an existing customer', or any one of a number of other possible permutations of the attributed proclamation. The OP's declaration that "he lied directly to my face" is perhaps the most unfortunate, and to me at least, offensive assumption of the lot, as it unnecessarily and just perhaps without foundation, impugns a man's good name. Gentlemen, we should all choose our words as carefully as we wish others to do!


Please see:



EP said:


> I haven't had time to read all the posts there but
> See post #29 in this thread. Of course it's from
> a few years back, but the word "never" doesn't
> expire.
> ...





CuffDaddy said:


> I have no dog in this fight, but I think, Sator, that you may be missing the point. Of course Mr. Despos has the right to refuse any project not to his liking, whether it be a bespoke commission for Osama bin Laden, an alteration to an OTR jacket, or a repair to a toilet in a nearby apartment. Nobody would dispute that. The subject of discussion seems to be the manner in which he declined the project, including his statements as to past work. Now, I suspect that Mr. Despos' understanding of his own words was truthful, just as I believe that the OP genuinely found them to contradict what he knew to be the facts - I express no opinion as to who is right or wrong on that score.


Right you are.



Sator said:


> .
> Chris Despos standard of work is actually unusually high - even higher than the majority of Savile Row firms. He has every right to concentrate on satisfying his bespoke clientèle and avoid having his workshop getting bogged down with time-wasting distractions. I applaud Chris for his dedication to true high end bespoke tailoring and to his true clients.
> 
> However, because the average person knows no distinction between the local Chinese laundry's alteration tailoring and high end bespoke tailoring, Chris doubtless puts up with lots of idiotic inquiries asking for trousers to be hemmed, waists to be taken in etc. Given how little respect that bespoke tailors get from people, it's little wonder that Chris kicked the OP out of his store.


You are talking past the point, either intentionally or unintentionally.Nobody is arguing that he doesn't have the right to turn down work. I specifically stated that I would have gone merrily on my way had he just said "I am not accepting any alterations work right now" and left it at that; he needn't have even explained himself and I would have been just fine.

If I were a business owner, I would not be disrespectful toward a potential client no matter ho much _someone else_ annoyed or disrespected me. That is NO way to act toward a potential client. The fact of the matter is that he may have lost himself a "real client" as well. Not exactly a desired outcome.

And on an aside, your attitude is one that I find contemptible and which I have little use for.



Sator said:


> But it is true: Chris only does alterations as a special favour to his old clients. It is a _favour_ because this sort of work causes him to lose money.
> 
> All bespoke tailors do alterations. They alter they own work all the time eg a client gains weight so you let out the trousers. So if that's what you meant then Chris is certainly a liar.
> 
> I still think it is petty to start a thread criticising Chris' precise wording and acting like a lawyer cross examining someone, picking on every word. At the end of the day the OP is just sour because Chris turned him down. I think that Chris is being truthful in that he has never routinely accepted alterations work except as a special favour to someone under specific circumstances.


You keep throwing this out, even though I know first hand that it is false, which is precisely the reason I went there in the first place--do you honestly think I would walk into a bespoke tailor asking for alterations without some legitimate basis for doing so? Maybe you do, considering how you apparently like to look down your nose at people...


----------



## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

Mr. Despos said he NEVER does alterations. As we have seen, that is not true. He was also very rude with the OP. These are things that were the OP's personal experiences and he shared them here. I, for one, am very glad for that. If I were to be looking for a bespoke tailor and was considering Mr. Despos, I could do a search for his name and find this interaction which would help me make a decision. For some, he's appauled for this, in which case, great, do business with him. For others, they might prefer to go someplace else. The review of the experience absolutely belongs here.

The OP said in his original post "I was not upset in the least that he didn't want to do the work; he could have a zillion legitimate reasons for not wanting to. What I was peeved about was that he lied directly to my face." and "Why on earth couldn't he have smiled and said "I'm sorry, I'm no longer accepting any alterations work?"

Now, as others have stated, maybe Mr. Despos was having a bad day, but we're judged on our bad days as much as our good days. It is never acceptable to treat another person as unworthy of your time. That shows a complete lack of character and class, and even if it was momentary, it still happened.


----------



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

For what it's worth (nothing!:icon_smile, I have not had a pleasant experience with Despos either!


----------



## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

culverwood said:


> Mr Despos has a right to turn down work and you have a right never to go back. Get over it.


Excellent.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

culverwood said:


> Mr Despos has a right to turn down work and you have a right never to go back. Get over it.


And your point? This has little-to-nothing to do with the fact that he wished to turn down the work (as I've pointed out many times). It was the dishonesty and manner in which he did so.

I posted this because people who may deal with him in the future should have access to the most information possible.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Scotch&Cigars said:


> Please see:
> ........


Scotch&Cigars: I agree that Mr Despos was abrupt and verbally rude toward you. He could certainly have shown a greater degree of grace in how he declined the work you were seeking to have done. However, I remain unconvinced that he directly lied to you in the process of his declination of your work and the thread and post referenced by EP fails to change my opinion on this matter. Lying requires motivation or intent...at least I think it does. Did he not attempt to resolve your dilemma by providing the name and contact information of another tailor, who did the type of work you were seeking to have done? Why would a person "intentionally lie" to you and then try to help you, by providing the name of a tailor who would do the work for you? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

I don't see the big deal. The OP had good reason to think that the tailor would accept alterations work. Hence it was not out of line for him to ask. Also, I don't see how anyone can reasonably be _insulted _ (as opposed to merely bemused or irritated) by an offer of work, made politely and in good faith.

The tailor, however, did not want to do the job and also did not want to get dragged into a conversation about cases where he'd made exceptions (or whatever). He may also have been having a bad day for some unrelated reason. So he told a white lie and was kind of snappy about it. Not his finest moment, but hey, it happens. Worth reporting here? Eh, maybe. But not worth an extended debate.


----------



## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

culverwood said:


> Mr Despos has a right to turn down work and you have a right never to go back. Get over it.


...and the OP has the right to discuss it on the forum.


----------



## Jiddle (Aug 7, 2005)

Despos shortened a coat for me about 3 or so years ago but told me that he was getting out of the alterations business, and I was one of his final customers for such minor work.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> Scotch&Cigars: I agree that Mr Despos was abrupt and verbally rude toward you. He could certainly have shown a greater degree of grace in how he declined the work you were seeking to have done. However, I remain unconvinced that he directly lied to you in the process of his declination of your work and the thread and post referenced by EP fails to change my opinion on this matter. Lying requires motivation or intent...at least I think it does. Did he not attempt to resolve your dilemma by providing the name and contact information of another tailor, who did the type of work you were seeking to have done? Why would a person "intentionally lie" to you and then try to help you, by providing the name of a tailor who would do the work for you? :icon_scratch:


I understand the point you're making, and it is not untenable. But it is still possible to lie given your argument. Yes, he did provide me with the name of a tailor, but that's not inconsistent. For example, he may have lied because he didn't want to me to try to press the issue, by saying "ohh but I heard you did it for so-and-so, why not me?" etc... Of course I was not planning to do so. But to tell me that he never did alterations work was insulting to me, and not best business practice.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

Jiddle said:


> Despos shortened a coat for me about 3 or so years ago but told me that he was getting out of the alterations business, and I was one of his final customers for such minor work.


I suspect "Sator" may be conspicuously absent from this conversation from here on out...


----------



## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

My family have been in the food industry for over 20 years, we used to do some sub-contract work for events (small and large). We have officially stopped doing this since mid-2007, although we have done some work but only as favours; if someone unknown asked we would decline and we have done, even people we knew. 

I can understand why Chris would decline; if I was a bespoke tailor, the last thing I would want to do is alterations. If Chris was rude, then that was wrong; however, the manner of the original post does do S&C any favours.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

ToryBoy said:


> My family have been in the food industry for over 20 years, we used to do some sub-contract work for events (small and large). We have officially stopped doing this since mid-2007, although we have done some work but only as favours; if someone unknown asked we would decline and we have done, even people we knew.
> 
> I can understand why Chris would decline; if I was a bespoke tailor, the last thing I would want to do is alterations. If Chris was rude, then that was wrong; however, the manner of the original post does do S&C any favours.


I have no idea how many times I have to say it, but here it goes one more time, with feeling: I _completely _understand why Chris would want to decline the work. I have zero problems with that. I can even deal with the fact that he was brash with me; we all have those days. My issue is the wholly unnecessary claim that he never did any alterations work. I did not need to be lied to in order to understand that he didn't want to do the work.

I remain confused as to why this post "doesn't (assume this is what you meant) do [me] any favours [sic][just kidding]." Should one only post experiences with a business if they are sunshine and roses? Is the honesty of a proprietor not important to those considering doing business with him?


----------



## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

*My opinion and my opinion only*



Scotch&Cigars said:


> _What I was peeved about was that he lied directly to my face. I know firsthand that he has done alterations before, and yet here he was telling me that he hadn't._


He may have done alteration work for special clients but maybe he does not see that as alteration work, more of a favour. You are writing about him lying to your face, you made your point and leave it at that.



Scotch&Cigars said:


> _Perhaps I'm being prissy, but when I decide to spend 5k+ on a high-end bespoke suit, I am extremely unlikely to even consider using Despos. If he lied about something like this, why should I think he would be honest in dealing with him for bespoke clothing? Hell, I think I'd rather pay 1-1.5k extra on a few trips to/from NYC for fittings if I had to..._


Why does it matter if you will spend $5k+ on a suit?

A simple "because of this, I will/may not consider Chris for my bespoke suits" would have better


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

ToryBoy said:


> He may have done alteration work for special clients but maybe he does not see that as alteration work, more of a favour. You are writing about him lying to your face, you made your point and leave it at that.
> 
> Why does it matter if you will spend $5k+ on a suit?
> 
> A simple "because of this, I will/may not consider Chris for my bespoke suits" would have better


1) As has also been discussed, it wasn't just for "special clients"
2) I only mentioned that price range because that is the general consensus of what Chris commands. That's honestly all I was referring to...


----------



## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Sator said:


> Chris doubtless puts up with lots of idiotic inquiries asking for trousers to be hemmed, waists to be taken in etc. Given how little respect that bespoke tailors get from people, it's little wonder that Chris kicked the OP out of his store.


Your pompous attitude certainly doesn't do much to increase the respect due tailors. Next time I have a tailoring emergency in Sydney, I'll be sure to not darken your doorway with my presence and risk making an idiotic inquiry. You are definitely a piece of work, though - I pity your customers.


----------



## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Despos was curt and possibly rude. Got it.

Despos lied. I suppose in the technical sense, he did.

Was it a huge lie? This is where I have a disconnect in logic. There are lies such as Enron lies, and then there are lies that really don't impact anything. This seems to be one of the latter. Maybe he just wanted you out of the shop and didn't want to discuss his past with you. Maybe he was referring to the recent past in not doing alterations for people. He did just move to Chicago not so long ago, so maybe he quit alterations once he moved to Chicago.

Honestly, it doesn't sound like he intentionally misled you. Which is the bottom line in my evaluation of your complaint about Mr. Despos.

The fact that he was rude, is obviously secondary, but I think that you have every right to be upset about his rudeness if true. The lie, I don't get it. It most certainly is not worth bringing up on an online forum IMO.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

S&C, to briefly take the other side, I can easily imagine telling a would-be client that I have "never" done estate legal work, even though I did once help my mother act as the executor of my grandmother's estate. I might clarify that answer under oath in a deposition or a hearing, but in conversation I would not.


----------



## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

I don't know the tailor, and I wasn't there to witness the interaction the OP posted about, but I understand why the OP's feathers were ruffled. Even if the tailor didn't lie, he didn't come across as a great businessman. This is what he should have said.

"I'm sorry, I can't do this alteration for you. I focus on bespoke, but here's the name of someone who does excellent alterations. Now, if you want bespoke work, please come see me."

That's it. What's so difficult abou that? It would only have taken him a few extra seconds if any, and he would have lured a possible future client. Instead, he alienated the OP, and possibly several others who read this forum.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I agree that it certainly sounds as if Chris Despos could have been more polite and less brusque, but I can't swallow the "liar" charge.

In my view, which I think is not an idiosyncratic one, lying means knowingly denying the truth to _someone who has a right to it._ The rub here is that Despos has no universal, free-floating obligation to make an exhaustive disclosure of what his customary work practices and the occasional exceptions thereto (if any) may or may not be to anyone who happens to walk in off the street.

Nor did he seek to gain anything by saying that he "never" does alterations, except perhaps a saving of some time. And he did give the OP a referral to another vendor, which was not required and counts as a courtesy, even if proferred in the midst of an instant brushoff.

Could he have been pleasanter? It seems so. Would that have made better business sense? I think it would! ("Kill 'em with kindness" is a fine maxim.)

Does this episode count as evidence that he's a rascally deceiver whom people should be wary of doing business with on trustworthiness grounds? I can't see that it does.

My guess is that he desired to keep this brief encounter as brief as possible, and not wanting to get sucked into a possible colloquy along the lines of "Well, Joe Blow and Bob Whoozis told me that you do sometimes take alterations, so why won't you take mine?" etc., he just said "never." (NB: I'm not saying that the OP would have tried to launch such an exchange, just that Despos might reasonably have feared it and the time it would cost him, that's all.)


----------



## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Sator said:


> Some bespoke tailors doing budget class bespoke (there have always been different classes of tailoring) do offer alterations work. In many cases, the shop earns its keep as much from alterations as from bespoke work.
> 
> The only time high class bespoke tailors take on alterations work is because they are happy to take the loss that goes with this work in the hope that the client may be persuaded to try the bespoke service. The more a shop is geared towards making a significant output of high end bespoke garments, the harder this becomes. I wonder how many Savile Row bespoke tailoring firms would take on alterations work? Probably not many.
> 
> ...


I often took alterations in at Gieves and Hawkes and Richard James. Yes you do it from a business point of view because it leads to "other work". This is the main reason why I take alterations now. We don't rely on it at all and do very little alteration work. I have a right to refuse the work and I did turn away alteration work on Savile Row when I deemed appropriate but I was always professional and polite about it.

Thats all I have to say, I don't want to perpetuate the thread. I don't think its doing anybody any good. You can have the last word if you like Sator.

DAVID REEVES MODERN ENGLISH TAILOR

Check out My Blog:

https://davidreevesbespoke.wordpress.com/


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

EP said:


> I haven't had time to read all the posts there but
> See post #29 in this thread. Of course it's from
> a few years back, but the word "never" doesn't
> expire.
> ...


You can click the number of the post to skip straight to it.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...-anyone-used-Chris-Despos&p=459912#post459912



Jiddle said:


> Despos shortened a coat for me about 3 or so years ago but told me that he was getting out of the alterations business, and I was one of his final customers for such minor work.


Well, see? I don't know why he couldn't just tell him, "I used to do alterations a few years back, but not anymore. Sorry. But I know this great guy just down the street..."



Andy said:


> For what it's worth (nothing!:icon_smile, I have not had a pleasant experience with Despos either!


Do tell.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I am older than most of the men active in the forum. I no doubt was always more "book smart" than truly wise. That's probably still true today. However, one bit of wisdom I have acquired is this:

Scoundrels and con artists are invariably extremely pleasant and ingratiating. On the other hand, a lot of fine, highly talented honest craftsman and artisans (a lot, I won't say all) do tend to be crusty, grumpy and curmudgeonly. I'll never be able to afford Despos, and I live a couple thousand miles distant from him. However, this story certainly wouldn't put me off using him.


----------



## Lookingforaclue (Nov 10, 2005)

You've got to admire a thread that manages to say nearly everything that can be said, mostly twice, and in only two days!

SRW


----------



## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

JLibourel said:


> Scoundrels and con artists are invariably extremely pleasant and ingratiating. On the other hand, a lot of fine, highly talented honest craftsman and artisans (a lot, I won't say all) do tend to be crusty, grumpy and curmudgeonly.


So true...

Wonder if it's the same with lawyers?


----------



## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

JLibourel said:


> I am older than most of the men active in the forum. I no doubt was always more "book smart" than truly wise. That's probably still true today. However, one bit of wisdom I have acquired is this:
> 
> Scoundrels and con artists are invariably extremely pleasant and ingratiating. On the other hand, a lot of fine, highly talented honest craftsman and artisans (a lot, I won't say all) do tend to be crusty, grumpy and curmudgeonly. I'll never be able to afford Despos, and I live a couple thousand miles distant from him. However, this story certainly wouldn't put me off using him.


Very true and very well said. By the same token, crusty, grumpy curudgeons seldom make excellent salesmen.


----------



## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

JLibourel said:


> Scoundrels and con artists are invariably extremely pleasant and ingratiating. On the other hand, a lot of fine, highly talented honest craftsman and artisans (a lot, I won't say all) do tend to be crusty, grumpy and curmudgeonly.
> 
> My post above is another take on this. I believe it is true; I just won't put up with it. When I enter a shop or begin otherwise to try to establish a relationship with someone who has constructed one of these "grumpy, highly-talented craftsman" personalities, I leave as soon as I encounter it. Life is too short, and there are always other options. If I am bringing somebody serious money for a quality product, then decent manners are a requirement of everyone involved. In a recent instance, I think the current economy has encouraged one craftsman, who formerly lacked manners, to learn some. When a friend told me that words like "please," "thank you," and "sir" had found their way into his vocabulary and that firm deadlines for work had become possible, I went back for another try, and we completed a mutually-acceptable transaction characterized by speech and behavior usually associated with gentlemen.


----------



## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Bravo, Despos!


----------



## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Just spoke to Chris Despos.

Bravo encore!


----------



## Scotch&Cigars (Dec 27, 2009)

son of brummell said:


> Bravo, Despos!


Considering how you've literally contributed nothing of substance to this conversation, you'll forgive me if I register my utter lack of interest in your "bravos."


----------



## jefferyd (Sep 5, 2008)

Bravo, Seitelman!


----------



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Andy said:


> For what it's worth (nothing!:icon_smile, I have not had a pleasant experience with Despos either!


Condemnation encore ! :icon_smile:


----------



## PatentLawyerNYC (Sep 21, 2007)

son of brummell said:


> Just spoke to Chris Despos.
> 
> Bravo encore!


Did he tell you that he never talks to lawyers?


----------



## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

You may want to speak with your webmaster and have him take a look at your "*OOPS!....Page Error 404 has occurred" error*.


son of brummell said:


> Just spoke to Chris Despos.
> 
> Bravo encore!


----------



## wheredidyougetthathat (Mar 26, 2006)

We will assume for the sake of argument that the OP's report of the incident is 100% correct: he - polite, understanding, even deferential; the tailor - abrupt and extremely curt (although per the OP the tailor did, of his own volition and without being asked (if asked, that information was omitted by the OP) recommend another tailor for the work required).

How then do we react to the purported statement "I have never done alterations" which the OP believes to be untrue, as he has (unspecified) personal knowledge that the tailor did some alterations work at some point in the past?

Is it, based upon the testimony presented by the OP, reasonable to assume that the tailor is likely to engage in shady, unethical, or fraudulent business practices? Is it, based upon the OP's report of the incident, reasonable to fear that the tailor will - for example - fail to make a suit that the customer has paid for? Lie to the customer regarding the quality of a finished suit? Deliberately neglect proper measuring, cutting, sewing, or other actions required to create a suit of the quality a customer has a right to expect?

Is it, to quote the OP, reasonable to doubt that "[the tailor] would be honest in [meaning 'when"?] dealing with him for bespoke clothing"? Speaking only for myself, and for what it is worth, I do not feel that the account provided by the OP would justify such a conclusion.


----------



## gagrooms (Aug 21, 2006)

Chris has been making my clothes for the past 5 years. One thing he is certainly not is a liar. The OP has taken a possible misunderstanding and blown it out of proportion. No one here really knows what happened, and it doesn't matter. Has anyone stopped to think that we are talking about an actual person here? My firm occasionally dismisses a client. I am sure that if there was a forum for ranting and raving that they might use it. Luckily for us the other 99% of our clients are happy w/ our services. I ordered a jacket from Chris 2 days ago, for a try on during a six hour business trip to Dallas in 5 days. I am sure glad he turned town a Filene's Basement alterations job so that he has time to make a $4,000 blazer. I have seen people wander in off the street that love clothes or have heard about Chris from the blog just to watch them take an hour of his time chatting about clothes, fabrics, etc. w/ no intention of making a suit purchase. Forgive Chris if he was curt, but you have no idea the demands on his time. If Andy is so upset then he should pick up the phone and chat w/ Chris. I can assure you that Chris has no idea why Andy is upset. Listen to clients of Despos tailoring, they could not be happier, and they are generally too busy to spend a lot of time on websites about clothes. Bravo Despos and go ahead and ring my Amex!!


----------



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

I think we've said all than can or needs to be said on this subject. So I'm closing this thread.


----------



## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Andy said:


> I think we've said all than can or needs to be said on this subject. So I'm closing this thread.


You, kind sir, are becoming frightfully boring in your "wiser" years.


----------



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> You, kind sir, are becoming frightfully boring in your "wiser" years.


Wiser? No, no I'm just getting *older* not wiser! And I was always boring! :icon_smile_big:


----------

