# Are Ascots Making a Comeback?



## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Lately, we've seen both Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren show gentlemen wearing ascots in their advertisements.

Now, in the latest Neiman Marcus for Men catalolgue, there are pictures of models in Armani wearing scarfs with their blazers tied around the neck as if they were ascots.

So, what do you think? Are ascots making a comeback, or is this just wishful thinking on the part of a handful of designers?


Kind Regards,

Chase


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## chapunso (Aug 13, 2006)

I wish. I cannot wait to wear mine. Here in FL i would feel stupid wearing one, but not in south america or parts of europe


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Nah, it's still a fashion icon of obscurity


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Beyond showing them in ads (not everything in the ads ends up on the shelves in a meaningful way), what I find interesting is that several stores, including Brooks and J. Press, are stocking the things and trying to sell them. I don't know who is buying 'em and I almost never see anyone wearing one, but it is intriguing that they are being stocked.

https://www.jpressonline.com/neckwear_ascot.php

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=578


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

I wonder where the J. Press ones are made


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

I remember the discussion of the ascot here years ago, and more or less the same people contributing to it now as then. 

Within the last year I have stopped wearing and, further, discarded all that I own, and I consider formerly wearing them to be a mistake of mine.

I conclude humbly that in order to pass them off in public, as with much questionable clothing, for certain reasons, including the ambiguity of one's intention in wearing an ascot, the wearer needs to be considerably handsome. This perhaps seems illogical to some, but is my conclusion after observation and thought on the subject.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

interestedinclothing said:


> I remember the discussion of the ascot here years ago, and more or less the same people contributing to it now as then.
> 
> Within the last year I have stopped wearing and, further, discarded all that I own, and I consider formerly wearing them to be a mistake of mine.
> 
> I conclude humbly that in order to pass them off in public, as with much questionable clothing, for certain reasons, including the ambiguity of one's intention in wearing an ascot, the wearer needs to be considerably handsome. This perhaps seems illogical to some, but is my conclusion after observation and thought on the subject.


So you maintain that somebody must be "considerably handsome" to wear an Ascot?

*Wow.* And, I believe I will add _Yikes_ as well to that theory. I could say a lot more, but I believe most will get the gist of my thoughts at this point, and I like to conserve Andy's bandwith.


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## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

Comeback?

That would imply that they'd left and gone somewhere sir.


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## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

I wore one last weekend, not sure I'm handsome but would like to believe so.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

When you say handsome, do you mean:

clean-cut, pretty boy handsome

or

rugged, "I've seen hell" handsome?


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## ilikeyourstyle (Apr 24, 2007)

Wearing an ascot is a great way to encourage people to laugh at you behind your back.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Scoundrel said:


> When you say handsome, do you mean:
> 
> clean-cut, pretty boy handsome
> 
> ...


I guess that would depend if your taste runs more toward Zac Efron or Humphrey Bogart, Scoundrel. :icon_smile:

--Chase


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## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

Scoundrel said:


> When you say handsome, do you mean:
> 
> clean-cut, pretty boy handsome
> 
> ...


Neither, think Roger Moore or Carry Grant.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I hope not. It would be shame to see this handsome classic sullied by the masses.


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## Rico (Oct 14, 2005)

chapunso said:


> Here in FL i would feel stupid wearing one, but not in south america or parts of europe


Which part of South American? Certainly not in Brazil (where I've lived) - you'd be shot on sight if you were spotted wearing one... 
On the other hand, I sometimes see someone wearing them here in Oxford (UK). But they are still VERY rare, and the people I've seen wearing them don't seem to be particularly style-conscious.


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

There is an ambiguity here apparently; the English day cravat, what is under discussion, has the different name of 'ascot' in the United States, and rather than resting over it rests under the shirt. The above picture shows what in the United States is called a cravat.

Rather than define 'passing something off' as it is in my mind, and further explain my reasoning I will retract my advice, as it were. It was a hesitant maxim that I intended more for help than dispute and based on observations and thoughts that were nonscientific.


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## rbstc123 (Jun 13, 2007)

*Hope so!*

I have one on deck just waiting.
Actually I am just waiting to wear it regardless of whether it comes back in style or not.
It takes [email protected] to wear one at a public event or function!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Rico said:


> and the people I've seen wearing them don't seem to be particularly style-conscious.


Yes, that's the point, they just look good. :icon_smile_big:


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## thelastusernamenottaken (Sep 8, 2006)

I live in the South of the United States and not only "get away" with occassionally wearing an ascot but am rather good in one, such that I've received nothing but compliments, most of them from respectable older gentlemen in suits or polo shirts at bars or tobacco shops, a few from random women (younger and not remotely respectable) and none from homosexuals. If I ever receive more compliments on any ensemble from the two latter groups than from the first, then I know that I have made a sartorial error and must start the outfit over.
It should be noted, however, that I am an asshole, and this factor may contribute significantly to my ability to successfully don the ascot.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

thelastusernamenottaken said:


> random women (younger and not remotely respectable)


Ahhh . . . the best kind!


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

*?*

an ascot would be complemented by my devilishly handsome self.


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## ChriO (Feb 23, 2006)

interestedinclothing said:


> [...]the English day cravat, what is under discussion, has the different name of 'ascot' in the United States, and rather than resting over it rests under the shirt.


A practical consideration: Since the ascot has direct contact with the skin, how do you keep it clean? Cleaning ties is a problematic endeavour, are ascots different?


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## 27.9.82.8 (Nov 26, 2007)

Very timely topic:

The one day each year an ascot is appropriate is approaching. That being halloween, and only if you are going out as Mr. Howell.


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## S.Otto (Aug 14, 2007)

Hilarious comments. I donned one last year at my university. The latter groups ate it up. At 22, I should've heeded the advice from Antongiovanni in The Suit. The thing is I am tall, dark, and handsome. It didn't help any that I also have a really deep voice. Seriously, Darth Vader & James Earl Jones deep.

The only good thing that happened as a result of that cravat was I got a few numbers from cougars.:aportnoy:



thelastusernamenottaken said:


> I live in the South of the United States and not only "get away" with occassionally wearing an ascot but am rather good in one, such that I've received nothing but compliments, most of them from respectable older gentlemen in suits or polo shirts at bars or tobacco shops, a few from random women (younger and not remotely respectable) and none from homosexuals. If I ever receive more compliments on any ensemble from the two latter groups than from the first, then I know that I have made a sartorial error and must start the outfit over.
> It should be noted, however, that I am an asshole, and this factor may contribute significantly to my ability to successfully don the ascot.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

It is certainly a clothing item that would draw attention, and mostly not in a good way. I wore one a few times many years ago with a blue blazer, but decided I needed white bucks and a yacht to complete the look.

I had the white bucks, but was missing the yacht - I still am, so I will pass.

Cheers, Jim.


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## ItalianGent (May 2, 2008)

Interesting comments. However, I've never been laughed at when I've worn an ascot (which is about 3-4 times a year). It does take some confidence to pull it off, but it's like anything else, if you do it once, it suddenly isn't a big deal anymore. It also helps if you don't care what other people think. I don't consider myself a fop or an asshole, just a guy who likes to wear one every once in a while.


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## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

ItalianGent said:


> It also helps if you don't care what other people think. I don't consider myself a fop or an asshole, just a guy who likes to wear one every once in a while.


My sentiments exactly.


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

27.9 said:


> Very timely topic:
> 
> The one day each year an ascot is appropriate is approaching. That being halloween, and only if you are going out as Mr. Howell.


Yes, quite possibly in certain parts of America.. here in England its perfectly acceptable any day of the week, year, millennium etc!!

RBH


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## scubasteve (Aug 20, 2008)

ItalianGent said:


> Interesting comments. However, I've never been laughed at when I've worn an ascot (which is about 3-4 times a year).


That you know of. In other words, no one's laughed in your face about it


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

In my opinion, an item best consigned to the graveyard of out-moded, unwanted, unattractive apparel.


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## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

scubasteve said:


> That you know of. In other words, no one's laughed in your face about it


Unfortunately, I think you may be right. One becomes the "check out Cary Grant over there in his scarf, snicker, wonder where he left his horse and buggy..." Personally, I'd love to get away with wearing an ascot once in a while, but here in the U.S., they just seem to come off as affected, and the wearer, the subject of discrete ridicule.


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## Mr. Knightly (Sep 1, 2005)

I prefer the look of an ascot without a jacket (strange, as I can't stand ties w/out jackets). I also wear it with an OCBD, as it somehow feels less affected that way.

I steer clear of bold patterns, favoring a navy pin-dot. I also try to wear it in such a way that it's easy to miss at first glance.

Mostly, I wear it around the house with a shawl-collar cardigan, while grading papers.

Yes, I've worn it out on occasion. Mostly, I was just having a laugh. It wasn't worn ironically per se, but I didn't mind looking a bit eccentric. I wasn't poking fun at the clothing itself, but at myself. 99% of the time, my clothing is pretty subtle, but I will occasionally roll out an archaic item or something that smacks of dandyism. You can't take yourself too seriously.

I guess I'm on the side of those who say that ascots are a "no." If it makes you happy to wear one anyway (as it does me, on occasion) then, by all means, go for it. Just know that you may be perceived as eccentric or ridiculous. For me, that's just showing my true colors on occasion!


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> In my opinion, an item best consigned to the graveyard of out-moded, unwanted, unattractive apparel.


You are joking, of course


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

27.9 said:


> Very timely topic:
> 
> The one day each year an ascot is appropriate is approaching. That being halloween, and only if you are going out as Mr. Howell.


100% correct!

On the other hand, if you wear them with your spats, monocle, and cape . . .


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Sir Royston said:


> You are joking, of course


Oh yes, of course, I'm rolling around on the floor laughing my head off.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Mr. Knightly said:


> I prefer the look of an ascot without a jacket (strange, as I can't stand ties w/out jackets). I also wear it with an OCBD, as it somehow feels less affected that way.
> 
> I steer clear of bold patterns, favoring a navy pin-dot. I also try to wear it in such a way that it's easy to miss at first glance.
> 
> ...


Prof. Knightly may be on to something. I have only worn them (day cravats) with very casual jackets (cord or tweed), but mostly when shooting skeet or sporting clays. In the first case only at intimate cocktail parties. When shooting, where tie not required, I wear one I bought in Italy that has a flying duck motif, and wear it with either a tattersall or a reproduction WW2 Willis & Geiger USAAC officers shirt, under my barbour or other shooting coats/waistcoats. Below the waist may be briar pants and leather boots, or Wellies and odd breeks depending upon the conditions.

Point being, its a casual accesory, not a substitute for a tie where a tie is required or appropriate. As such, I find wearing one with a blue blazer yacht club style to be over the top and highly associated with the negative stereotype everybody is hung up on. As is showing way too much of it by puffing it way out or unbuttoning more than the top button.

Wear one discretely with jeans, an OCBD, and a real casual non tailored jacket such as a barbour or the many cotton varieties seen at the Gap these days, as a starter kit and find your way from there.

Cheers

PS: Cant be just old guys buyiing them at JP and BB


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

A favorite is a pale yellow ascot that has a red and blue foulard type pattern. I like wearing it with my pale *PINK* BB PP BD, gray POW odd trousers with a sky blue over check, and navy alpaca shirt jacket. 

Doesn't look bad with several of my Harris Tweed odd jackets either. There is a beautiful textural contrast between the rustic tweed and the rich colored luster of the patterned silk.


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> 100% correct!
> 
> On the other hand, if you wear them with your spats, monocle, and cape . . .


Good with tweeds!









RBH


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> In my opinion, an item best consigned to the graveyard of out-moded, unwanted, unattractive apparel.


I disagree with you and think it is very handsome; it is still a suitable alternative to a tie in the outdoors.

https://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap2993308vh1.jpg

https://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap2991712kl7.jpg

https://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap2983464tg4.jpg


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

I wore one all day on Saturday. The day was spent at a fraternity conference, followed by dinner at a 4-star Swiss restaurant. Nobody commented, although I live by the maxim that the true rebel is the young man in the tweed 3-pc suit. Except of course, the waiters who quickly ascertained I was not dining in preparation for an upcoming hockey game.

Of course, I am a pretensious dandy.

Thomas


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

interestedinclothing said:


> I disagree with you and think it is very handsome; it is still a suitable alternative to a tie in the outdoors.
> 
> https://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap2993308vh1.jpg
> 
> ...


Interested, which photo is you?


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## ItalianGent (May 2, 2008)

scubasteve said:


> That you know of. In other words, no one's laughed in your face about it


Well, I guess if that's the fear that runs through *your* mind, or you think it's a fear that *should* run through my mind, or you are one of the people laughing (discreetly, of course, because being obvious about it is "uncool"), then I suggest you continue in your fear of wearing what you might want (because of someone snickering), or laughing (discreetly) at people who *do* wear what they want. After all, why challenge yourself, right?

It's *clothing*, dude. Get over it.


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## Art of Leadership (Sep 4, 2008)

I find it hard to believe anyone would be laughing behind your back when it's worn in proper context, and you find your employment as a representative of your company.

But then, who in the US is familiar with a wing collar and morning suit, or a swept wing collar shirt AND waistcoat, which I feel is the only way the ascot/cravat should be combined.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Art of Leadership said:


> I find it hard to believe anyone would be laughing behind your back when it's worn in proper context, and you find your employment as a representative of your company.
> 
> But then, who in the US is familiar with a wing collar and morning suit, or a swept wing collar shirt AND waistcoat, which I feel is the only way the ascot/cravat should be combined.


I thought that we had established that we were not talking about that kind of ascot/cravat?


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

interestedinclothing said:


> I disagree with you and think it is very handsome; it is still a suitable alternative to a tie in the outdoors.
> 
> https://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap2993308vh1.jpg
> 
> ...


Well done, along with the fellow in shooting tweeds, what I was trying to relate in my earlier post.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Sir Royston said:


> Good with tweeds!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well done!!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Ah ha, now I see why there has been some confusion.
An ascot and a cravat are not the same thing.

Redford, Kitchen and bloke with shooter are all wearing cravats.

I have no problem with cravats at all. A cravat is worn around the neck on the skin inside the shirt.
The title of this thread is "Are Ascots making a comeback?" NOT "Are cravats making a comeback?"

An Ascot is a large flamboyant old fashioned tie usually in silver/pale blue/grey tones worn ON the shirt ON the material like a tie & usually secured with a pin, especially at Ascot (hence its name)

Please don't mix the two up.

Ascots look awful in my opinion. Cravats look cool.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Sir Royston said:


> Good with tweeds!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even without the cookie duster, on this side of the Atlantic most people would say the guy looks like a clown.


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

*Lost in Translation*

yes indeed
being English i refer to the item around my neck as a CRAVAT

An Ascot is a slightly odd looking piece of wedding attire, usually hired for one day and thats it

Americans will refer to both as an Ascot

I wear a CRAVAT!

hope that clears things up slightly


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> Even without the cookie duster, on this side of the Atlantic most people would say the guy looks like a clown.


A Clown?
I'm not seeing a red nose, facepaint or a circus ring..
or are they just out of shot?


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Ah ha, now I see why there has been some confusion.
> An ascot and a cravat are not the same thing.
> 
> Redford, Kitchen and bloke with shooter are all wearing cravats.
> ...


Sorry about the confusion regarding the title of my thread. I started a thread on what Americans call Ascots and Europeans call Cravats here a little over a year ago, and referred to them as Ascots. Everybody seemed to understand.

I apologize again if I caused any confusion.

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## goose thief (Sep 13, 2008)

If you want to see a number of fantastic day cravats check out Donald Sutherland' s wardrobe in Fool's Gold. The movie isn't good at all; but the neckwear is delightful.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

thelastusernamenottaken said:


> and none from homosexuals.


I live in Atlanta. Please let me know when you're coming through and I will find several who will find your ascot most charming. :icon_smile:


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

goose thief said:


> If you want to see a number of fantastic day cravats check out Donald Sutherland' s wardrobe in Fool's Gold. The movie isn't good at all; but the neckwear is delightful.


The assasin in Day of the Jackal wore one. Casually of course.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Sir Royston said:


> yes indeed
> being English i refer to the item around my neck as a CRAVAT
> 
> An Ascot is a slightly odd looking piece of wedding attire, usually hired for one day and thats it
> ...


Indeed sir, then we are agreed.


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## ItalianGent (May 2, 2008)

jackmccullough said:


> 100% correct!
> 
> On the other hand, if you wear them with your spats, monocle, and cape . . .


I think G. Bruce Boyer put it best in his book "Elegance-A guide to quality in menswear":

The first sentence in the chapter about ascots reads: "It is an unfortunate truth that most American men have no idea what to do with their necks".


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

"Do"?


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

jackmccullough said:


> Even without the cookie duster, on this side of the Atlantic most people would say the guy looks like a clown.


I wouldn't say clown, but definitely an anachronism. Even in the UK most
people would consider him as either dressed up for a fancy dress party or an American tourist thinking that he's blending in in the English countryside.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

You say anachronism I say classic.

Course I work in an office where wearing a tie is an anachronism.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Chase Hamilton said:


> Sorry about the confusion regarding the title of my thread. I started a thread on what Americans call Ascots and Europeans call Cravats here a little over a year ago, and referred to them as Ascots. Everybody seemed to understand.
> 
> I apologize again if I caused any confusion.
> 
> ...


Not to worry, no harm done. As long as I now know that when an American says "an Ascot" he can mean either an Ascot or a cravat. :icon_smile_wink:

And on relection looking at redford and kitchen agian, their cravats have
almsost transferred to sweat rags.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

S.Otto said:


> Hilarious comments. I donned one last year at my university. The latter groups ate it up. At 22, I should've heeded the advice from Antongiovanni in The Suit. The thing is I am tall, dark, and handsome. It didn't help any that I also have a really deep voice. Seriously, Darth Vader & James Earl Jones deep.
> 
> *The only good thing that happened as a result of that cravat was I got a few numbers from cougars*.:aportnoy:


Good deal. What they lose through sagging they can make up through experience. :icon_smile_big:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

David V said:


> You say anachronism I say classic.


The term "classic" usually applies to what is classic for a current period or a recently passed period, i.e. retro, for example, "a classic 1960s suit" not for something that was already antiquated 70 years ago!

I think his look would best be described as period costume, vintage or veteran. But definitely NOT classic, for the reason I just mentioned, but also because it wasn't a classic look at all, it was a look worn by a small handful of wealthy gentlemen ramblers at the end of the 19th C and beginniing of the 20th C, and even then it would have looked odd to the vast majority of both city and country dwellers, office, factory and field workers alike.

Back then (let's say 1900) the average office or shop worker out in the country with family or groups of work colleagues for a day out wore his everyday clothes (usually a suit), concessions being to possibly take his tie and jacket off and maybe roll his sleeves up and don a sun hat of some sort.

Manual labourers (factory, railway and rural) tended to dress up as best they could often ending up looking like the off-duty picknicking office and shop workers.

Only the minority gentry had specfiic costumes for every occasion. And only a minority of them went rambling.


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I wouldn't say clown, but definitely an anachronism. Even in the UK most
> people would consider him as either dressed up for a fancy dress party or an American tourist thinking that he's blending in in the English countryside.


Or indeed a gentleman who lives in the countryside and dresses accordingly so..

ever wandered around ruaral England.. We have sports such as Shooting, Hunting (even after the "help" of those Labour types) where tweed, Moleskin and Corduroy are seen daily..

RBH


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Sir Royston said:


> Or indeed a gentleman who lives in the countryside and dresses accordingly so..
> 
> ever wandered around ruaral England.. We have sports such as Shooting, Hunting (even after the "help" of those Labour types) where tweed, Moleskin and Corduroy are seen daily..
> 
> RBH


Sir Royston, I was discussing the actual costume and how it would appear to people today, but lets get a few other points clear straightway anyway: 
1, How you dress is your business not mine. And so If you're comfortable like that, fine, in which case you're probably as eccentirc as I am. :icon_smile: 
2, I am not American I am Irish. And I had a house in the country in Ireland until 97 -not that I used it much mind. 
3, When I lived in the UK & Ireland I spent plenty of time in the English, Irish and Welsh countrysides, but I never ever saw anyone dressed like that.

During my RAF service I was ONLY on RAF stations in the shires -Wilts., Yorks., Cambs. and Lincs. So saw country life on an almost daily basis.

Modern English gentlemen in the English countryside DO NOT dress like that. Dressing accordingly nowadays involves more Goretex than tweed and Barbours rather than lovats.

If you think the definition of an English gentlemen is defined by his clothes and support of the Conservative party then it is a defintion alien to me!

A gentleman is defined and recognised by his manners, behaviour and words not by cloth, leisure activites and political allegiances.

If you think it entails dressing like a gentleman did in 1910, fine, (then you are as batty as I am :icon_smile_big but don't be surprised when people pick you up on it or ridicule you for it.

For the record, shooting and hunting aren't sports! Not by my defintion of sport anyway, which includes neither vehicles, animals, firearms nor killing.

As regards those "Labour" types. Myself and many of my gentlemen friends and ladies are Labour supporters rather that than support those ghastly bourgeois liberal snobs that call themselves the Conservative Party! As regards the crowd in the middle, whatever they're called nowadays, they're hardly any better.

The only hold out is my dear friend Lord Ardbreck who insists that the Tories will improve and will win the next election.....I have money on that says he's wrong! :icon_smile_wink:

So my friend, my post was not an attack on you as a person it was an observation of your ensemble per se based on the fact that it is 2008 not 1908.

Best regards

James


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I wouldn't say clown, but definitely an anachronism. Even in the UK most
> people would consider him as either dressed up for a fancy dress party or an American tourist thinking that he's blending in in the English countryside.


The moustache may be anachronistic but I live in New York and I see people dressed like that every time I go shooting in Dutchess County or Long Island, yes even the breeks, though not on everyone, but always a fair percentage, and every month in "The Field" magazine, photographed throughout the Bristish Isles. Indeed the former are Anglophile Yanks and members of anachronistic WASP clubs (though not all are WASPS), but the attire is out there, available for purchase several locations in Manhattan, and very practical for the field.

Indeed, many wear more pedestrian field gear at the same venues in the US, and as the Earl of Ormonde has indicated that is more common than the tweed rigs even in the UK, but many, even in the US, are adherants of more traditional garb.

I even saw one ballsy character walking through Grand Central in a Barbour carrying a gunslip a couple weeks ago. For those who dont know, possession of even unloaded sporting guns is a felony in the peoples republic of NYC.


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## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> As regards those "Labour" types. Myself and many of my gentlemen friends and ladies are Labour supporters rather that than support those ghastly bourgeois liberal snobs that call themselves the Conservative Party!
> Best regards
> 
> James


I thought he meant Labour in a working, not a political sense.


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

Sir Royston said:


> Or indeed a gentleman who lives in the countryside and dresses accordingly so..
> 
> ever wandered around ruaral England.. We have sports such as Shooting, Hunting (even after the "help" of those Labour types) where tweed, Moleskin and Corduroy are seen daily..
> 
> RBH


If you dress as I do and choose to wear "outrageous" tweeds and plus fours (as i do) you absolutely have to have a sense of humour and treat everything a little tongue in cheek..

I always get caught up in good humoured banter on here and its not always taken as humour!

Oops


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

This has been a fun thread! Thanks to the many posters who have offered entertaining, nuanced and insightful new information on this topic. Two peoples separated by a common language indeed!


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## interestedinclothing (Feb 8, 2007)

I am attaching two more pictures of day cravats; both are from Brideshead Revisited.

After studying the thread and posted pictures, I am reconsidering day cravats, but viewing them in a different way. Handsomeness when wearing one, however unpopular the idea may be, is still important in the impression formed and other ways; but is blending the day cravat, so that within the outfit it remains subdued, a possible alternative if one is unattractive?

The importance of handsomeness in wearing the day cravat either must absolutely be understood, or never will be understood, when one imagines a stranger, as in the second picture (which is found below), standing and speaking to one, wearing such a day cravat. Imagine, if necessary to enforce it further, that the young man is less attractive. Are we at all suspicious of his character, that is, his pronounced day cravat, and if we can imagine, his ordinary or unattractive looks? If not then the post's purpose comes to an end, and at least the pictures and following link to a store, which sells ascots at a very reasonable price, cheaper than Forzieri, another store, will be interesting: https://stores.ebay.com/Gentlemans-Jabot_W0QQfrsrcZ1QQfsubZ2023695QQtZkm

Ascots of the more or less neutral, as the two characters' from Out of Africa shown earlier in the thread, have decidedly a carefree and nearly practical appearance, as discreet and unspectacular neck-wear if anything; consider in other situations, the navy ascot (pattern-free by necessity if one is American and in the city among strangers) with a charcoal sweater vest (sleeveless jumper) and medium blue shirt, the brown ascot with the darker or lighter brown vest and cream shirt, the gray ascot with the navy vest and light blue shirt. Since prescriptiveness opposed to speculation is the most direct way to effect something believed to be best;

for the plain, ordinary American, when in the city (because the country is different), when among uncongenial company, and when a discreet and blended component of an outfit;

the good colors are as follows:
brown
ivory/cream/very very pale pink/perhaps others
navy
gray
grayed green (hunter, moss, sage);

the bad colors are:
Burgundy 
gold and lemon 
blues other than navy
reds
pinks
purples
saturated (that is, not grayed) greens
white and black (which are unwanted for more complex reasons of formality and tradition)

https://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap9992773og3.jpg

https://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap9980433qv1.jpg


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Chase Hamilton said:


> Lately, we've seen both Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren show gentlemen wearing ascots in their advertisements.
> 
> Now, in the latest Neiman Marcus for Men catalolgue, there are pictures of models in Armani wearing scarfs with their blazers tied around the neck as if they were ascots.
> 
> ...


Why yes, cravats are making a comeback. Judging by the number of threads active on the topic.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Literide said:


> Why yes, cravats are making a comeback. Judging by the number of threads active on the topic.


Yeah, who in the Sam Hill is starting all these threads about cravats? :icon_smile_wink:

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## wimbledonballs (Sep 22, 2008)

*cravats*

HI IT the weekend are any of you guy out there going to wear 
your cravats this coming saturday of sunday,
will be wearing a cravat this coming saturday evening.
rgd
wimbledonballs


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

wimbledonballs said:


> HI IT the weekend are any of you guy out there going to wear
> your cravats this coming saturday of sunday,
> will be wearing a cravat this coming saturday evening.
> rgd
> wimbledonballs


I almost always wear a cravat at the weekends, The only time I may not wear a Cravat is if I happen to be wearing a tie..


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm on the "no" side, I guess.


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## stuman (Oct 6, 2005)

My uncle use to wear one to hide his scar from a tracheotomy.


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## bigdukesix (May 18, 2007)

I've purchased several ascots over the last month or so and enjoy wearing them. I'm not much of a tie man so I really like the 'finishing' around the neck that an ascot provides.


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## ItalianGent (May 2, 2008)

And now that the weather is beginning to cool off a bit, there's no better time than the present! I wear them more often as age creeps in.


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## mdg137 (Aug 12, 2008)

I figured, now that Ive hit 40, and have some gray hair, I can pull of the occasional ascot-- wore one yesterday, and will probably today as well!


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## Palm Springs Savant (Nov 11, 2008)

*Yes Ascots ARE Making a Come Back!*

Hey there, I stumbled on your site yesterday when I was searching for other sites about ascots. I wear ascots all the time, and just wrote a post about them on my blog. I've bought most of mine in London and Italy, but several in New York at Brooks Brothers, Paul Stewart and also in Las Vegas. If you want to see my collection, check out my photos of them ...

Thanks

Rick

_Welcome to Ask Andy. You may post the photos here but linking to blogs is not permitted. Thank you.
_


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## NEW_Rome (Oct 29, 2008)

I have worn an ascot on occasion, even to school once, and no one was offended enough to say it to my face, whatever there internal feelings may have been. I think for now they work best in cooler weather, let people think you are wearing a somewhat-strangely knotted scarf.


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## ErikinWest (Jun 18, 2008)

Ah well as of today I own two! Anyone who looks at the 'What are you wearing' thread can see mine. Personally, the key to wearing an ascot is to treat it seriously. In my opinion they've gone out of style (a matter of opinion I know) because it's been seen as tacky or pretentious. Much like the bow tie, which almost has a comic feel to it. But as I said before, treat it like you were wearing it to a business conference 

Cheers,
Erik


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Palm Springs Savant said:


> Hey there, I stumbled on your site yesterday when I was searching for other sites about ascots. I wear ascots all the time, and just wrote a post about them on my blog. I've bought most of mine in London and Italy, but several in New York at Brooks Brothers, Paul Stewart and also in Las Vegas. If you want to see my collection, check out my photos of them ...
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...


Note to Beckham, Piven, & PSS: A Cravat (Ascot in American) is not part of semi-formal evening wear.

You look good in the sport jacket pictures though...

Cheers,


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

ilikeyourstyle said:


> Wearing an ascot is a great way to encourage people to laugh at you behind your back.


Ditto


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## Moose Maclennan (Apr 20, 2006)

Mr. Knightly said:


> I... I also try to wear it in such a way that it's easy to miss at first glance...


^
Key.

Wear it low, wear it loose, wear it flat. Or leave it alone.

I do quite like a silk kerchief around the neck in that manner, on occasion. Very comfortable.

Otherwise, I really don't know, I really don't. I do know that my mother-in-law's beau often sports one. He's 79 and I think he looks too young for one.

Wear it low, wear it loose, wear it flat. Or leave it alone.


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## ItalianGent (May 2, 2008)

Originally Posted by ilikeyourstyle: 
Wearing an ascot is a great way to encourage people to laugh at you behind your back.



gng8 said:


> Ditto


Laughed at by who, exactly? Cocky ex-jocks?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Almost everyone. They are truly out of fashion and to most people make it seem like you are trying to put on airs.

They are supported only by 10% of the minority of people who post on message boards and discuss clothing.

I'm sure that in some small elite circles, a few people still wear them.

Oh well. I'm getting my flame-retardant clothing; the ascot supporters are coming.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> They are supported only by 10% of the minority of people who post on message boards and discuss clothing.


One shouldn't wear an ascot when joining one's friends in all jumping off a bridge...

People who wear ascots, or hats, or boutonnieres, really don't care if they're "supported." They do it because they want to.


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## ItalianGent (May 2, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Almost everyone. They are truly out of fashion and to most people make it seem like you are trying to put on airs.
> 
> They are supported only by 10% of the minority of people who post on message boards and discuss clothing.
> 
> ...


Well, it's not my intention to flame you out, because you are certainly entitled to your opinion. *However*,

"Almost everyone. They are truly out of fashion and to most people make it seem like you are trying to put on airs."

"Putting on airs" is really a statement about the person who feels "put upon" by someone who wears an ascot (or anything else that would trigger this unfortunate reaction). I've never met anyone who has worn one because they are trying to inflict something on someone else, apparently against their will. It would be easy and painless for me to also believe in defining life as a "series of stereotypes, all lined up, and ready to be executed", but people tend to be more complex than the easy answer. They deserve more of my attention than that, whether they choose to wear an ascot or not.

"They are supported only by 10% of the minority of people who post on message boards and discuss clothing."

Ever been to Europe?

"I'm sure that in some small elite circles, a few people still wear them."

Elite? Maybe ascots are "just another accessory that certain people like"? At least be fair in your accusations.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

No one ever wears them in my daily life. Go ahead and flame me. You will still not change the fact that almost no one ever wears them in normal circles.

You can live in a world that says anyone who would wonder about you for wearing an ascot is a small person. The reality is that a lot of people would wonder about you.

Except for a small minority of people who post on these message boards, no one champions them. I don't care if you wear them, but people who are looking for advice on these boards, see an unchallenged recommendation that they wear an ascot and wear one are setting themselves up for ridicule in the real world.

If you live in an elite world where people play polo, etc. or whatever they do and have no contact with the masses, you can certainly wear an ascot.

You can certainly wear an ascot anyway. You cannot stop a lot of people from thinking you are dressed strangely. Go ahead and wear the ascot if you want. I really don't care.

I don't feel it is in the interest of most people to be seen wearing one, at least in America.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> No one ever wears them in my daily life. Go ahead and flame me. You will still not change the fact that almost no one ever wears them in normal circles.
> 
> You can live in a world that says anyone who would wonder about you for wearing an ascot is a small person. The reality is that a lot of people would wonder about you.
> 
> ...


This topic certainly elicits some strong emotions, epsecially from the anti-ascot people.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Don't kid yourself. People have the right to wear whatever they want.

I'm a CPA and live in a state capital. I have not seen anyone in an ascot unless it was a foppish character on TV in five years. I think it is irresponsible to recommend to people that they wear them.

I have played music on stages in tie dyed Tshirts and have interacted without a problem with all sorts of people that you ascot wearers would think of as gauche and garish, probably. I can assure you that I don't care much about what anyone wears as long as they don't meet the public in my office. And we're business casual. I, gasp, am not wearing a tie or ascot now.


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## ItalianGent (May 2, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm a CPA and live in a state capital. I have not seen anyone in an ascot unless it was a foppish character on TV in five years. I think it is irresponsible to recommend to people that they wear them.


Irresponsible. Interesting. Except we are all adults, aren't we?



forsbergacct2000 said:


> I have played music on stages in tie dyed Tshirts and have interacted without a problem with all sorts of people that you ascot wearers would think of as gauche and garish, probably. I can assure you that I don't care much about what anyone wears as long as they don't meet the public in my office. And we're business casual. I, gasp, am not wearing a tie or ascot now.


I don't think that there is anything garish or out of place by wearing tye dyed shirts at a rock show, whether you are on stage or in the audience. But, since you seem to have already concluded that I (or other people that you have never met), *must* have a problem with it, I guess it's futile to try and convince you otherwise. Apparently, Rock and Roll and ascots can't coexist in the same universe without some sort of "cognitive dissonance", and that's where the finger pointing starts, at least in your experience.

As far as what you expect out of your coworkers, that's probably another thread, and possibly another forum entirely. If that has been your angle (or fear) all along, then I would probably say that an open minded fashion forum where people discuss clothing may not be the place for your "mojo".

But, let's be clear about where the "airs" and "snobbery" truly exist - it isn't coming from people like me (who make no assumptions about you), but it *is* coming from people like you (who have made a world of assumptions about people like me). All over a piece of clothing that is worn around the neck.

Get out more and grow up.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm a CPA and live in a state capital. I have not seen anyone in an ascot unless it was a foppish character on TV in five years. I think it is irresponsible to recommend to people that they wear them.
> 
> 
> > Whenever it's in the 40s here and I see some idiot in a sweatshirt, shorts, and mocs with no socks, I know they're from Michigan.
> ...


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## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

Miket61 said:


> forsbergacct2000 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a CPA and live in a state capital. I have not seen anyone in an ascot unless it was a foppish character on TV in five years. I think it is irresponsible to recommend to people that they wear them.
> ...


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

*perfect INGRISH*

I would love to find, in a parallel universe, an English version of this thread where Ascots and Cravats aren't causing an enormous amount of confusion!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

ItalianGent said:


> Irresponsible. Interesting. Except we are all adults, aren't we?
> 
> I don't think that there is anything garish or out of place by wearing tye dyed shirts at a rock show, whether you are on stage or in the audience. But, since you seem to have already concluded that I (or other people that you have never met), *must* have a problem with it, I guess it's futile to try and convince you otherwise. Apparently, Rock and Roll and ascots can't coexist in the same universe without some sort of "cognitive dissonance", and that's where the finger pointing starts, at least in your experience.
> 
> ...


You're free to wear what you want, and I'm free to discuss my opinion in this forum, too. What I'm talking about is perceptions, not what I feel. I have made no assumptions, but many people do.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

For what it's worth, probably no place in America is a fashion hotbed.

If you have achieved a place or a sense of self that means the opinions of others means nothing to you, you have nothing to lose by wearing whatever you want.

When the impressions of others do matter, then you might be better served to be aware of them. 

Yesterday, I specificaly did not dress up for work because I was going to be spending time with a couple people who work outside; wearing a jacket and tie could have interfered with the communication. 

I'm sorry; a lot of people who post on these boards are "clothing idealistic" and seem to care only about the clothes and how they look. Most people have to wear clothes in an environment where they deal with other people.

As for the gentleman who chooses to brand all people from Michigan as cretins who don't dress appropriately, you probably have said as much about yourself as the folks from Michigan.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Sir Royston said:


> I would love to find, in a parallel universe, an English version of this thread where Ascots and Cravats aren't causing an enormous amount of confusion!


Well said. I made my views clear on this back in September. But I'll do it again anyway in point form

1. Woud you colonials:icon_smile_wink: please stop calling cravats Ascots? Thank you in advance. :icon_smile: 
2. An Ascot is an Ascot. A cravat is a cravat
3. Ascots look ridiculous all the time and on everyone in my opinion
4. Cravats look good occasionally.
5. I've only seen a cravat up close in use twice in Sweden and both times it was on me! No one else over here in Sweden wears them apart from one or two Swedish anglophile psuedo-nobles. Oh and one work colleague who came into work in a cravat the day after I'd worn one. 
6.The same is generally true for the UK, with a handful of old military types in blazers at military clubs and other old guffers at the RAC club and Battle of Britain meetings and the like wearing them. I don't think I've seen a royal in the last 10 years wearing a cravat. Green military scrim cloths are not cravats. I stll occasionally wear a scrim cloth in the summer or on a motorbike. For those not au fait with UK military terms, a scrim cloth is a large rectangular cotton cloth with holes, i.e.like a string vest, usually green or camo patterned. Official use is to cover the neck and face when laying up somewhere, for example, in ambush or for snipers.
The everyday normal use is as a sweatrag round the neck.
Charlie always wore one when he was an infantry adj.

Additionally, I find myself standing behind almost everything Forsberg says.
Well said Forsberg!


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Sir Royston said:


> I would love to find, in a parallel universe, an English version of this thread where Ascots and Cravats aren't causing an enormous amount of confusion!


Totally agreed.

This is an Ascot:

This a cravat:


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## Sir Royston (Nov 10, 2005)

Exactly
Thank you VERY much
I personally have never worn an Ascot
However I wear a Cravat at least 3 days a week
RBH


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

I find that proper Ascots are pretty much impossible to find. There are a few trying to pass off day cravats as Ascots, or worse still there are plenty of hideous pre-tied monstrosities. The traditional Rule is that if wearing a stand up (detachable of course) collar, an Ascot harmonises better, but with a turn-down collar a four in hand is preferable. English texts suggest that an Ascot with stand-up collar is a fine choice for a bridesgroom at a wedding.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

More fine examples of Ascots:




























I do wish they were worn (properly) more often with morning dress. I rather like a good Imperial collar with them.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Good work Sator. We must stomp on this American calumny together! :icon_smile_big:


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Sator said:


> I find that proper Ascots are pretty much impossible to find. There are a few trying to pass off day cravats as Ascots, or worse still there are plenty of hideous pre-tied monstrosities. The traditional Rule is that if wearing a stand up (detachable of course) collar, an Ascot harmonises better, but with a turn-down collar a four in hand is preferable. English texts suggest that an Ascot with stand-up collar is a fine choice for a bridesgroom at a wedding.


This string is in fact about Cravats but many participating keep backsliding in to American English and calling them Ascots.

Ascots are in fact an anachronism. The current accepted form of morning dress uses a conventional collar dress shirt and FIH tie. And I like it that way. Ascot, wing collar, spats. etc would cross over in to period costume save for someone over about 90 yo.

As to the day cravat that elicits so much emotion from antis, I find it a perfectly acceptable casual accesory for a gentleman. Note the word casual, I wouldnt wear one with anything more formal than a sport jacket. IMHO a blazer calls for a tie (bow or FIH) as does a suit.
And as pointed out earlier, a day cravat is not for semi-formal evening wear, even if it is black.

I think the strong feelings exhibited by some antis is based on hollywood caricatures who inapropriatly wear cravats as a blazer or suit accesories and invariably exhibit the worst possible stereotrypical traits of stereotypical snobs. Just because they may not be worn in ones circle of association, doesn't mean the h'wood stereotypes are real or worth getting exited about.

PS: I own both cravats and Dead tee shirts. Depends on the occasion.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Literide said:


> This string is in fact about Cravats but many participating keep backsliding in to American English and calling them Ascots.


Actually I interpreted the thread to be about ascots, not cravats.

At any rate I like to see Americans using American English. Everytime I see an American post here using terms like "waistcoat" and "lounge suit" instead of the American English "vest" and "business suit" or just plain "suit" it makes me cringe. And then to see those same folks using British spelling such as "colour" instead of "color" I cringe that much more.

C'mon guys. Some of you Americans are making me cringe too much. If I'm to believe my Mother, my face might freeze that way. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Literide said:


> This string is in fact about Cravats but many participating keep backsliding in to American English and calling them Ascots..


An absolutely correct observation.



Literide said:


> Ascots are in fact an anachronism. The current accepted form of morning dress uses a conventional collar dress shirt and FIH tie. And I like it that way. Ascot, wing collar, spats. etc would cross over in to period costume save for someone over about 90 yo


Correct again



Literide said:


> As to the day cravat that elicits so much emotion from antis, I find it a perfectly acceptable casual accesory for a gentleman. Note the word casual, I wouldnt wear one with anything more formal than a sport jacket. IMHO a blazer calls for a tie (bow or FIH) as does a suit.
> And as pointed out earlier, a day cravat is not for semi-formal evening wear, even if it is black.


Correct again and I fully agree. I sometimes wear one inside my shirt, under a jumper - v or roundneck - and with a Barbour or tweed on top a la Kitchen and Redford in the photos posted a while back -but it then has a tendency to go from cravat to sweatrag. But never with a suit and never with a blazer, after all I'm not a WWII RAF veteran. :icon_smile_wink:



Literide said:


> I think the strong feelings exhibited by some antis is based on hollywood caricatures who inapropriatly wear cravats as a blazer or suit accesories and invariably exhibit the worst possible stereotrypical traits of stereotypical snobs. Just because they may not be worn in ones circle of association, doesn't mean the h'wood stereotypes are real or worth getting exited about.


Exactly



Literide said:


> PS: I own both cravats and Dead tee shirts. Depends on the occasion.


No Dead T-shirts, but Big Elf, Cardiacs, Morrissey, Svenska Akademien, Sea Nymphs, Detektivbyrån (who I can really recommend for anyone who likes weird French cafe accordion synth waltz punky instrumental electronica 



)


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Yes, I appreciate that a four in hand and turn down are standard with morning dress. However, there are plenty of UK websites showing Ascots for wedding wear. Most of these are called 'cravats' rather than Ascots for some reason. If there is one place where an Ascot still looks good, it is on the bridesgroom to mark him out from the rest of the wedding party. A vintage touch for weddings is also quite attractive.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Sator said:


> Yes, I appreciate that a four in hand and turn down are standard with morning dress. However, there are plenty of UK websites showing Ascots for wedding wear. Most of these are called 'cravats' rather than Ascots for some reason. If there is one place where an Ascot still looks good, it is on the bridesgroom to mark him out from the rest of the wedding party. A vintage touch for weddings is also quite attractive.


Beware the formal hire industry.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> An absolutely correct observation.
> 
> Correct again
> 
> ...


I appreciate your concurrence your Lordship.

I give a pass to the WW2 RAF boys for reasons I dont think need explaining. Definitly caught my eye in the BoB movie. Do you happen to know what the stripes on their cravats were? Does the RAF have a regimental type stripe? Or did they tend to where on from school or club?

One of the advantages of being born in the 60s was going to college in the 80s and the accompanying soundtrack.

Cheers,


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Literide said:


> Does the RAF have a regimental type stripe?


Indeed it does sir. Here are 28 different RAF ties.
Including those of my own regiment, namely, the RAF Regiment. The 5-coloured RAF Regiment stripe (page 3) I think is rather garish and not my cup of cha at all! So I go with the maroon/blue stripe with crossed rifles & crown crest. 
https://www.goldings.co.uk/online_shop/product_list.php?division=Royal%20Air%20Force


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Cruiser said:


> Actually I interpreted the thread to be about ascots, not cravats.
> 
> At any rate I like to see Americans using American English. Everytime I see an American post here using terms like "waistcoat" and "lounge suit" instead of the American English "vest" and "business suit" or just plain "suit" it makes me cringe. And then to see those same folks using British spelling such as "colour" instead of "color" I cringe that much more.
> 
> ...


I will endeavor to keep my prose in coloquial American pidgin as to not upset those in the mother country who speak and write in the Queens English (RP?).


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Literide said:


> I will endeavor to keep my prose in coloquial American pidgin as to not upset those in the mother country who speak and write in the Queens English (RP?).


No sir, Queen's English and RP (received pronunciation) are only spoken not written. However, they are along with "Oxbridge English" dated terms that aren't used that much anymore anyway. BBC English is quite a common term nowadays amongst linguists.

Anyway regarding written English, and working in the language branch as I do, I can tell you that the standard terms used by translators,editors,linguists alike are Br.Eng (British English) and Am.Eng (American English).


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> No sir, Queen's English and RP (received pronunciation) are only spoken not written. However, they are along with "Oxbridge English" dated terms that aren't used that much anymore anyway. BBC English is quite a common term nowadays amongst linguists.


I recently read that Her Majesty herself now speaks in Modified Received Pronunciation.

Would this thread get moved to the Interchange if I enquired about your opinion of the young lady recently fired for requesting a non-Asian driver for her daughter?

YES

Please ask that question in the interchange.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Miket61 said:


> I recently read that Her Majesty herself now speaks in Modified Received Pronunciation.
> 
> Would this thread get moved to the Interchange if I enquired about your opinion of the young lady recently fired for requesting a non-Asian driver for her daughter?


Unless either the lady or the prospective driver wears an ascot (Am. English) or a cravat (Br. English), YES


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Indeed it does sir. Here are 28 different RAF ties.
> Including those of my own regiment, namely, the RAF Regiment. The 5-coloured RAF Regiment stripe (page 3) I think is rather garish and not my cup of cha at all! So I go with the maroon/blue stripe with crossed rifles & crown crest.
> https://www.goldings.co.uk/online_shop/product_list.php?division=Royal%20Air%20Force


A great regiment, and great stripes to have in cravat one so chooses.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Don't kid yourself. People have the right to wear whatever they want.
> 
> I'm a CPA and live in a state capital. I have not seen anyone in an ascot unless it was a foppish character on TV in five years. I think it is irresponsible to recommend to people that they wear them.
> 
> I have played music on stages in tie dyed Tshirts and have interacted without a problem with all sorts of people that you ascot wearers would think of as gauche and garish, probably. I can assure you that I don't care much about what anyone wears as long as they don't meet the public in my office. And we're business casual. I, gasp, am not wearing a tie or ascot now.


Cravats are not unheard of in the music world. Members of The Specials including Terry Hall, Jerry Dammers, and Sir Alexander Gentleman wore them when performing if I recall. In progressive degrees of irony culminating with the latter I think.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Literide said:


> Unless either the lady or the prospective driver wears an ascot (Am. English) or a cravat (Br. English), YES


Apparently she didn't care if the driver was male, female, or naked, as long as they weren't Asian or "wearing a turban."


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Miket61 said:


> Apparently she didn't care if the driver was male, female, or naked, as long as they weren't Asian or "wearing a turban."


PLEASE KEEP THIS DISCUSSION TO THE CLOTHES AND AWAY FROM THE CONTROVERSIAL QUOTE IF YOU DO NOT WANT THIS MOVED TO THE INTERCHANGE.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Seems we Yanks are not the only ones confused on the difference between an ascot and cravat.
In the video below, an English fellow instructs on how to tie a "cravat" outside the collar with a pin as part of formal wear. He then instructs on further notting to create the latest rage in British formal wear for the uninformed and/or terminally trendy, the "scrunchy" tie.

I think he, at least in the first iteration, is forming an ascot tie.

Need a lifeline from the Earl of Ormonde I think...


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## 55mph (Nov 16, 2008)

interestedinclothing said:


> I remember the discussion of the ascot here years ago, and more or less the same people contributing to it now as then.
> 
> Within the last year I have stopped wearing and, further, discarded all that I own, and I consider formerly wearing them to be a mistake of mine.
> 
> I conclude humbly that in order to pass them off in public, as with much questionable clothing, for certain reasons, including the ambiguity of one's intention in wearing an ascot, the wearer needs to be considerably handsome. This perhaps seems illogical to some, but is my conclusion after observation and thought on the subject.


considerably handsome? i'm good. i have bought a few over the past couple of years. i consider them to be cold weather appropriate and somehat functional. i haven't worn one out yet but since i turned 55 a few weeks ago, i'm finally old enough to express my eccentric nature without too much concern.

count me in. also, vintage Fedoras. ebay is great for finding the classics, many in excellent condition.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

55mph said:


> considerably handsome? i'm good. i have bought a few over the past couple of years. i consider them to be cold weather appropriate and somehat functional. i haven't worn one out yet but since i turned 55 a few weeks ago, i'm finally old enough to express my eccentric nature without too much concern.
> 
> count me in. also, vintage Fedoras. ebay is great for finding the classics, many in excellent condition.


Welcome to the club sir


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

interestedinclothing said:


> I am attaching two more pictures of day cravats; both are from Brideshead Revisited...


Isn't this a contemporary approach to wearing a cravat? I thought, traditionally, neckwear is supposed to stand out, not blend in with one's ensemble.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Scoundrel said:


> Isn't this a contemporary approach to wearing a cravat? I thought, traditionally, neckwear is supposed to stand out, not blend in with one's ensemble.


It would be an aristocratic, between the wars, way of wearing a cravat. Perhaps middle class trying to dress as an aristo given Ryders bakground.

Contemporary day cravats would, or should, be worn more discreetly, but likley to be more colorful.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I love ascots, I sincerely hope they are coming back so I don't look like a social outcast whilst wearing one.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I like your screen name and loved that show. Mannix was no major clothes horse, but he dressed professionally most of the time and when he wasn't fighting or running, usually looked pretty good.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

He had very nice suits and blazers, all tailored by Petrocelli clothiers. I've tried to look them up on the internet, but I didn't find anything. Perhaps they are out of business? As for Mannix the tv show, I thought Joseph Campanella was the best dressed on the show. I love almost every outfit he wore, too bad he was only in the first season.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Mannix said:


> He had very nice suits and blazers, all tailored by Petrocelli clothiers. I've tried to look them up on the internet, but I didn't find anything. Perhaps they are out of business? As for Mannix the tv show, I thought Joseph Campanella was the best dressed on the show. I love almost every outfit he wore, too bad he was only in the first season.


I have a nice wooden hanger from Petrocelli but dont know how I acquired it. To stay on topic I will use it to hang my cravats.

Cheers


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## camcravat (Dec 21, 2008)

*ascot resurection?*



Chase Hamilton said:


> Lately, we've seen both Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren show gentlemen wearing ascots in their advertisements.
> 
> Now, in the latest Neiman Marcus for Men catalolgue, there are pictures of models in Armani wearing scarfs with their blazers tied around the neck as if they were ascots.
> 
> ...


There is a bit of an interest in wearing ascots again in my experience. Seems to be with younger guys who want something different and more comfortable. I saw a guy in a dinner suit with an ascot recently and it looked great. I often wear one and I may have remarks behind my back...but who cares? I receive plenty of comliments to my face.


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*dearie me*



jackmccullough said:


> Even without the cookie duster, on this side of the Atlantic most people would say the guy looks like a clown.


neckwear aside, until i visited there, i had no idea of how many hillbillies lived in vermont. dearie me, whole "hollers" full of them, if "hollers" is the correct word. startlingly inbred too, at a guess.

I supposed that most of our fellow members live in cities or semi-cosmopolitan precincts where neighbours and colleagues are disposed to show tolerance to another's mild eccentricity -- which a neck cloth appears to be in much of america. more suprising is the number of members apparently naturally insecure, or easily intimidated. i would never have surmised it.


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## moss01 (Dec 6, 2008)

J press still sells them. Ok, bad example for a trend


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

I have always thought they were the most underated item of clothing. A few years ago Sartorialist interviewed me and I said that. You should have seen the fuss!

I think they should only be worn though if you can do it and it isn't really obvious. It shouldn't be like oh my god he is wearing an ascot!.....like David Beckham. Should look natural.


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## moss01 (Dec 6, 2008)

Maybe a neckerchief, but I would want it very subtle.


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## Vita Su Misura (Sep 25, 2007)

I know this is an old thread, but I felt like responding.

I have known several people who donned the ascot, but I agree it's a slippery slope between a somewhat unique and untapped elegant accessory, and a Hugh Hefner Halloween costume.

I generally have no problems seeing more distinguished gentleman of a more advanced age as being able to pull them off.

That being said, though I am younger I do own a few neckerchiefs and wear them on occasion. This is from New Years Eve, and I loved getting to wear it.










Ascots to me are something special. Not necessarily for everyday, but not overly intimidating either.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

camcravat said:


> There is a bit of an interest in wearing ascots again in my experience. Seems to be with younger guys who want something different and more comfortable. I saw a guy in a dinner suit with an ascot recently and it looked great. I often wear one and I may have remarks behind my back...but who cares? I receive plenty of comliments to my face.


A day cravat, if thats what you mean, is not an article of semi-formal evening wear. Neither is an ascot for that matter.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Vita Su Misura said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I felt like responding.
> 
> I have known several people who donned the ascot, but I agree it's a slippery slope between a somewhat unique and untapped elegant accessory, and a Hugh Hefner Halloween costume.
> 
> ...


Nicely done, as are the accesories on your right and left


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Vita Su Misura said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I felt like responding.
> 
> I have known several people who donned the ascot, but I agree it's a slippery slope between a somewhat unique and untapped elegant accessory, and a Hugh Hefner Halloween costume.
> 
> ...


Can we please stop using this horrible word neckerchief.

A neckerchief is a sweat rag.

A cravat is a cravat.

BTW, there is a proper way to tie a cravat and a wrong way.....unfortunately.....:icon_smile_wink:

Tying a cravat is just like tying the first movement of a tie or the simple single left over right or right over left of a coat belt. You bring it over once and let it hang after tightening and arranging it of course. Very elegant, very simple.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Can we please stop using this horrible word neckerchief.
> 
> A neckerchief is a sweat rag.
> 
> ...


A bandanna is a sweat rag.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

I have only seen a cravat worn once or twice by someone I saw at an evening concert and he was old and fine.

Personally, I find wearing one difficult without it clashing or sticking out like a sore thumb. A great deal of thought must be employed if I were to think of wearing one; it must contrast with the shirt, have no patternation (or very subtle patternation) and be tied in such a way that doesn't look like you have a parasite surgically attached to your neck. 

As for a formal cravat, I dare not wear one except if it be a white lawn neckcloth on a very high starched 'Brummel' wing collar and the other necessary trappings of Regency splendour...


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Vita Su Misura said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I felt like responding.
> 
> I have known several people who donned the ascot, but I agree it's a slippery slope between a somewhat unique and untapped elegant accessory, and a Hugh Hefner Halloween costume.
> 
> ...


Looks nice.

Might be a little too close to the skin tone. You can use the ascot or the neckerchief to highlight the eye color...

I like it.


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## jpanik (Jan 20, 2009)

Hi everyone, first time poster. Just wanted to chime in and say that I definitely think ascots/cavats (under the shirt) are making a comeback, especially with younger people. I don't think this was mentioned before, but the character Chuck Bass in the show Gossip Girl often wears ascots/cavat, he's a pretty eccentric dresser on the show, but a lot fans of the show try to imitate his style:

https://www.gossipgirlinsider.com/images/gallery/the-basshole.jpg
https://www.gossipgirlinsider.com/images/gallery/basshole-lurks.jpg

Additionally while searching, I found this poll in USA Today from a little less than a year ago:

https://www.usatoday.com/life/lifestyle/fashion/2008-04-07-ascots_N.htm

So even if they aren't exactly "catching on" they are coming back into pop culture. Personally, I like them, but just wish I could pull it off a little bit better.


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## mysharona (Nov 4, 2008)

Vita Su Misura said:


> quote]
> Who makes this suit?


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