# What’s a dandy?



## sprezzatura (Jan 23, 2007)

I know the definition, and a bit about the history
of the movement of dandyism, but I'd like to know
your thoughts. When you hear _dandy_ what comes to mind?


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

One who follows the "dictates" of fashion to the extreme.


Think zoot suits, nehru jackets, leisure suits as dinner wear.


No real sense of style.


Kind Regards,

Chase


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Suggest you might visit Dandyism.net. The gentlemen there love disquistions of that sort.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Chase Hamilton said:


> One who follows the "dictates" of fashion to the extreme.
> 
> Think zoot suits, nehru jackets, leisure suits as dinner wear.
> 
> ...


A true dandy most emphatically does not "follow the 'dictates of fashion to the extreme." He himself is an arbiter of elegance who views the vulgarities of "fashion" with disdain!


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

JLibourel said:


> A true dandy most emphatically does not "follow the 'dictates of fashion to the extreme." He himself is an arbiter of elegance who views the vulgarities of "fashion" with disdain!


Well, I just took the "Are You A Dandy?" quiz on dandyism.net. Per this quiz, I am an "affected provincial."

Leave it to an "affected provincial" to not know what a dandy is, I guess. :icon_smile_wink:

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Doctor B (Sep 27, 2006)

Someone who lives a very leisurely life, or who is very good at affecting the look of someone who actually _does _live the good life. Also, to me, a person known as a "boulevardier" -- who has good manners to the ladies, courtesy for the gentlemen and respect for all.

And who is effortless at all times when doing all of the above.


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## sprezzatura (Jan 23, 2007)

Chase Hamilton said:


> One who follows the "dictates" of fashion to the extreme.
> 
> Think zoot suits, nehru jackets, leisure suits as dinner wear.
> 
> ...




You're probably thinking of metrosexuals.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

sprezzatura said:


> You're probably thinking of metrosexuals.


Perhaps... or maybe devotees of Thom Browne? :icon_smile:

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

For me, _dandy_ is a pejorative...or at least, it's not a fantastically positive word. A dandy, in my book, is one who is fastidious to the point of ridiculousness. He is probably shallow. This certainly doesn't mean that all men who care about their appearances are ridiculous or shallow; indeed, based on what I've read over the last couple of years, I would not consider most on AAAC to be dandies.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Dandys from The Scarlet Pimpernel to Hercule Poirot match action and intellect with equal measure of care in personal appearance.


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## Benjamin.65 (Nov 1, 2006)

sprezzatura said:


> I know the definition, and a bit about the history
> of the movement of dandyism, but I'd like to know
> your thoughts. When you hear _dandy_ what comes to mind?


No self-respecting Englishman's a dandy. Brummell was a blight on our soul. But like the rest, he got his in the end.


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## fullgrain (Jan 5, 2007)

Tom Wolfe.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

The word dandy has had different connotations through the last couple of 
centuries. At times it has carried positive connotations and at times pejorative ones.

Much of this is discussed in a book which I recently reviewed:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=64275

I think this is a much more factually based - and interesting - piece of research than some of the rather frivolous writings I have seen on the subject.

On the one hand, as exemplified by Brummell, the dandy was immaculatedly but extremely conservatively dressed in a manner utterly devoid of show. His eloquence was distinguished by plain colours but tailored to fit with perfection. Fit was everything.

Later on Wilde gave dandyism a bad name because his dress was extravagant and rather effeminate. To the Victorians - once the scandal of his homosexuality was made public - this meant that dandyism became synonymous with effeminacy and moral corruption.

The perjorative connotations of the word thus are a legacy of late Victorian times.


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## english_gent (Dec 28, 2006)

a dandy is someone who dresses for the fascination of other people and not himself !


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

english_gent said:


> a dandy is someone who dresses for the fascination of other people and not himself !


Beau Brummell is famous for saying that to attract attention by one's outward appearance was "the severest mortification which a gentleman could incur".

Brummell was famously reported to have declared that "If John Bull turns to look after you, you are not well dressed".


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## english_gent (Dec 28, 2006)

Sator said:


> Beau Brummell is famous for saying that to attract attention by one's outward appearance was "the severest mortification which a gentleman could incur".
> 
> Brummell was famously reported to have declared that "If John Bull turns to look after you, you are not well dressed".


if you believe in dandyism then 'understated' is bottom of the menu.

dandyism is a victorian invention .. it was the middle class (a victorian invention) trying to emulate the upper classes.

and dandyism doesnt stop at clothes .. its a state of mind ..... the use of big words and over elaborate language .. known as intellectual dandyism.

brummel was not a dandy but in retrospect held in massive regard by dandys cuz of his innovations.

he lived and died too early and missed the dandyist uprising by over a century.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

The Victorian middle class dandy wanabees where called other things such as "gents", "mashers", "swells", "knuts", "cads".


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## english_gent (Dec 28, 2006)

here's a painting of dandys in the 1830s .... a snobbish protest against egalitarianism sweeping europe .. especially france (the dandyist took off in london and paris in 1790)

https://imageshack.us

brummel and bull would have had a fit observing those two gentleman.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

sprezzatura said:


> When you hear _dandy_ what comes to mind?


Someone who honestly refers to themselves as a "dandy" in this day an age I would think to be a little "light in the loafers" and probably favoring the attention of men over women.

MrR


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## english_gent (Dec 28, 2006)

MrRogers said:


> Someone who honestly refers to themselves as a "dandy" in this day an age I would think to be a little "light in the loafers" and probably favoring the attention of men over women.
> 
> MrR


dandys crave the attention/admiration of both males and females .. with the former being non-sexual.

but it can be too much style for some male spectators .. perhaps struggling with their crisis of masculinity as they behold a specimen of male elegance and daring savoir faire ... aggression is the usual 'fig-leaf'. :icon_smile:

from my experience .. women go a bit nuts for dandyfied gents.

i see it as my duty to present them with sensory overload on occassion!

could you pull it off ?


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## gordgekko (Nov 12, 2004)

Chase Hamilton said:


> One who follows the "dictates" of fashion to the extreme.
> 
> Think zoot suits, nehru jackets, leisure suits as dinner wear.
> 
> ...


Deleted


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

To me, the term "dandy" denotes someone who is frivolously concerned with his appearance to the exclusion of adult responsibility.

It's not a compliment.

Well-dressed does not equate to "dandy". At least that is how I understand things.


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## sprezzatura (Jan 23, 2007)

Benjamin.65 said:


> No self-respecting Englishman's a dandy. Brummell was a blight on our soul. But like the rest, he got his in the end.


Sartorial literatus (and designer of Gordon Gekko's wardrobe), Alan Flusser, is most certainly a dandy. Would you say, then, that he is frivolous, and of no substance?


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Remember the movie _The Corsican Brothers_...think of the perverted count who's name is impolite to post here...that guy was the quint-essential "dandy"...


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*From Yankee Doodle*

... he put a feather in his cap and called it macaroni.


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## BUFFEDCARACENILOVER (Jan 18, 2007)

MrRogers said:


> Someone who honestly refers to themselves as a "dandy" in this day an age I would think to be a little "light in the loafers" and probably favoring the attention of men over women.
> 
> MrR


Wait...that's a bad thing? Nah!!!
BTW, what if he likes the attention of both?!
Is he just greedy?


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## tasteful one (Oct 6, 2006)

*To me, a dandy is someone...*

...who is truly clueless and therefore needs to express himself with whatever he perceives as 'THE' fashion statement of the moment. These are the guys who lack much substance, and make their sartorial decisions based on a desperate need for acceptance and social acknowledgement..the guy who buys a BMW, with an autobox, and say it's really the 'Ultimate Driving Machine'..or worse, that they're really 'nice looking'; the guy who really believes that a Rolex is a 'fine piece of jewelry'; the guy who wears loafers without socks..and is 25 pounds overweight. Or the guy who really believes that a comb over is better than being bald..or worse, that it fools anyone. In short, a dandy is someone without much self awareness, who, in spite of that, believes he's enviable.


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## bohemian_dandy (Sep 27, 2006)

To put it simply, removing all the nuances, dandyism is a reaction to the vulgarity of society. The idea was often to to go to an extreme to make a point. It is an affectation, a pose, but one that, I think, is defensible.

There is a reason that it arose when it did, which had to do with a rapidly changing society. In this era of mass-produced vulgarity, a resurgance of dandyism is just what we need. Tom Wolfe dresses in a way that many consider rather affected, yet he should be applauded (though perhaps not emulated) for the point his dress makes.

Admittedly, one need not go to such an extreme to make such a point. But let's not be too critical of those who do.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*I'm reading the Brummell biography*

and he and his circle were considered dandys, by thre public and by themselves. As expressed by Brummell's circle, it meant an extreme fastidiousness in their grooming and attire, but their clothes while immaculate and expensive, were far less ostentatious than those that came before them. As I read about the uniform they wore, the closets modern resemblance would be a man in a navy blazer wearing chinos with a starched white shirt and a seven fold tie.

That said, the meaning of the word has evolved. Today, it seems to be more of a pejorative. In some ways it is similar to the word "liberal" which in the 19th century meant a political philosophy most closely aligned with the modern Libertarians. Today, the word "liberal" is used, but not to describe politicans who believe in laissez faire economic policies.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

ladies and gentleman...

the dandy...


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## Prufrock (Mar 9, 2006)

A dandy is someone unable or unwilling to embody sprezzatura in his dress.


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

*Aesthetes and Dandies*

In her excellent book 'The Penguin Book of Twentieth-century Fashion Writing' Judith Watt provides us with many examples of the Aesthete and Dandy in recent literature.

She suggests that ' The aesthete and the dandy are two male nineteenth-century stereotypes who defined themselves through appearance: the former an effete with a question over his sexuality, the latter a man for whom exquisite simplicity is perfection&#8230;Both the dandy and the aesthete run through the pages of twentieth-century writing, often merged into a hybrid to describe a poseur or latent homosexual.'

The book contains passages from many novels with characters that fall into one or other category and some in the 'hybrid' group.

Watt goes on to say ' A dandy is far more of a narcissist than the aesthete but has never been as disliked. He emerged in England during the years immediately preceding the French Revolution, when the style of the gentleman, not the aristocrat, was regarded as epitomizing the new spirit of democracy.'

Some Twentieth-century writers have distinguished between the two: Nancy Mitford's Cedric Hampton is clearly an aesthete where F. Scott Fitzgerald's Dick Diver in 'Tender is the Night' is a dandy.

However, many writers have failed to make the distinction and this, coupled with the emergence of lad culture in the 1990's means that dandyism is now misunderstood as effeminate or overdressed. This I feel would explain some of the confusion in this very thread.

For me, to answer the question in the OP, a dandy is a man of exquisite simplicity. Perhaps the term now does him a disservice?

' [He] chose his best black one, a lounge suit which had caused almost a sensation among his acquaintances because of its elegance, then selected another shirt and began to dress with great care' - Franz Kafka - The Trial (1925).

Judith Watt's book pub. by Penguin in 2000 ISBN 0-140-27731-5 (not sure if it's still in print).


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## JamesT (Oct 12, 2006)

Prufrock said:


> A dandy is someone unable or unwilling to embody sprezzatura in his dress.


I disagree. The best way to define the dandy, in my opinion, was written by Baudelaire and can be read here: https://www.dandyism.net/?page_id=178


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## Droog (Aug 29, 2006)

In its most positive sense, a dandy is a male who lives with discrimination in most things, but certainly in clothes. Not to be forgotten is that this includes deportment, language, and manners. It is in direct contrast and response to vulgarity.

There is also a certain lightness toward life but not to the point of being frivolous.

Max Beerbohm comes to my mind as a positive example.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> To me, the term "dandy" denotes someone who is frivolously concerned with his appearance to the exclusion of adult responsibility.
> 
> It's not a compliment.
> 
> Well-dressed does not equate to "dandy". At least that is how I understand things.


You obviously haven't read Manton's book, "The Suit," in which dandyism is referenced throughout as the manner and form to which elegant men should aspire.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Brideshead said:


> In her excellent book 'The Penguin Book of Twentieth-century Fashion Writing' Judith Watt provides us with many examples of the Aesthete and Dandy in recent literature.
> 
> She suggests that ' The aesthete and the dandy are two male nineteenth-century stereotypes who defined themselves through appearance: the former an effete with a question over his sexuality, the latter a man for whom exquisite simplicity is perfection&#8230;Both the dandy and the aesthete run through the pages of twentieth-century writing, often merged into a hybrid to describe a poseur or latent homosexual.'
> 
> ...


Ahh, blessed enlightenment! :teacha: Thank you Brideshead for shedding authoritative light on the subject.


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## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

fullgrain said:


> Tom Wolfe.


Ditto ... no question! And no ... I'm not confusing who with what.


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