# Martinis



## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Alright, gents, come Friday night I want to be mixing a delicious Martini.

I've read the older thread on Martinis, but I know tastes and products change.

If you would, please post your favorite gin and dry vermouth (I'm aiming for dry Martinis here) for making a superb Martini (and maybe give a few details as to why). 

On a side note, I'm going to be experimenting a bit, and I'm first going to try Embury's 7 to 1 ratio. I'm guessing I'll end up at the more usual 5 to 1, but I don't really know. I've never asked bartenders at what ratio they've mixed my drinks.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

I started with Bombay Saphire, but have recently come to prefer Hendrick's when available. A splash of dry vermouth in the shaker, and then strained into a glass, up. Olives have been dropped from the mix until my waistline recovers from the holidays.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Coleman said:


> Alright, gents, come Friday night I want to be mixing a delicious Martini.
> 
> I've read the older thread on Martinis, but I know tastes and products change.
> 
> ...


The taste distinctions among gins are more subtle than some other distilled spirits, such as whiskeys. My wife is the more serious martini drinker and she prefers Plymouth Gin, which should not be surprising since she is a trad girl and this is a trad gin. See this wiki entry for the best description of its characteristics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Gin
She is not picky as to the vermouth, though many drinkers are. As for mixing ratios, it is a matter of taste, of course, but I think your suggested ranges are certainly fine. The popular notion that the less vermouth the better, and no vermouth is somehow best, is just silly. If one wants to order gin, order gin. A martini requires vermouth. Good luck.


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

agnash said:


> I started with Bombay Saphire, but have recently come to prefer Hendrick's when available. A splash of dry vermouth in the shaker, and then strained into a glass, up. Olives have been dropped from the mix until my waistline recovers from the holidays.


x2 on Bombay Saphire Gin. For the vermouth I heartily recommend Noilly Pratt.


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## KennethB (Jul 29, 2009)

In the '80s, I used to frequent the Aub Zam-Zam in my home town of San Francisco - when Bruno (rip) owned and worked there. He made a great Martini using, if I remember correctly, Boodles Gin and Martini & Rossi Vermouth. I use Boissiere Vermouth, when I can find it.

Cheers!


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## sowilson (Jul 27, 2009)

My favorite martini is made with Citadelle gin Noilly Pratt vermouth.


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## Realalefan (Jan 12, 2009)

I prefer regular Bombay to Sapphire. I seem to get more of the flavor of the botanicals, possibly due to the lower alcohol level? Wouldn't say no to Sapphire though. Plymouth is very good also, but pricey.

Gin-to-vermouth proportion is about 6 to 1, using any commonly-available dry vermouth. Also I use vermouth-soaked olives. Temperature: as cold as possible.

If dinner calls for lemons, I'll add a twist instead of olives for variety.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Plymouth gin with a touch of Noilly Pratt. If you have a Costco close by (and you're a member), you can sometimes pick up a good deal on Plymouth gin.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Oh, TMMKC, I wish your comment about Costco were univerally true. It is most places, of course. I live in good ol' Utaw, and only _licker _stores can sale anything other than beer.

Everyone, thanks for all of the comments so far. I think I may be sold on Plymouth for this first round of experimentation, but, by all means, keep the suggestions coming.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Coleman said:


> Alright, gents, come Friday night I want to be mixing a delicious Martini.


I'm not a martini drinker unless that's my only choice; but I can't help but wonder, why wait until Friday night? What's wrong with tonight? :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> why wait until Friday night? What's wrong with tonight? :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Cruiser


+1
I have never agreed more with any statement I have read at AAAC.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

I won't usually have a drink Monday-Thursday (there are, of course, exceptions). It makes the weekends that much more magical.


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## DPC3 (Jun 15, 2009)

Although I have always tended toward Bombay Sapphire I think that it is worth taking a look at www.tastings.com and to find a description of a gin which fits your specific flavor profile. It seems that when one utilizes a service such as this there may be a better chance of discerning what might be a very good choice. It seems that if one is searching for the gin which will trump the classic choices then this is worth a look. For the sake of simplicity the most highly regarded gin there is: G' Vine Nouaison Gin ties with I have noticed that at esoteric liquor stores they usually have the varieties listed on the before mentioned site. I hope that you find the search feature on their site useful : https://www.tastings.com/search_spirits.lasso
-DPC3


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

I picked up some Plymouth Gin and Noilly Prat last night. Thanks, gents! I had a tasting of each neat (less than half an ounce). The Plymouth Gin is amazing, and $25 for a fifth is very nice compared to Whiskey/Whisky prices. 

Nobody mentioned Tanqueray 10. That's what I was leaning to when I first started this thread. Are there any 10 proponents here? I'm thinking it will be my next experiment.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Coleman said:


> I picked up some Plymouth Gin and Noilly Prat last night. Thanks, gents! I had a tasting of each neat (less than half an ounce). The Plymouth Gin is amazing, and $25 for a fifth is very nice compared to Whiskey/Whisky prices.
> 
> Nobody mentioned Tanqueray 10. That's what I was leaning to when I first started this thread. Are there any 10 proponents here? I'm thinking it will be my next experiment.


Wife also likes Tanqueray 10 (and regular Tanqueray), but prefers Plymouth. You are right that Plymouth is a steal -- the advantage of finding truly special quality in a rather obscure traditional product rather than a highly advertised trendy one. Glad you enjoy it. I enjoy gin but am more of a whiskey guy. Wife has exceptional taste in gin (and men).


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Gordon's London Dry Gin and Martini & Rossi


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## Dr. François (Sep 14, 2008)

Completely lacking in snob appeal, Seagram's Distiller's Reserve gin is a great product. It is bottled at 107 proof, so it dillutes less when shaken with ice. Look for the black and gray label, not the yellow one.

Seagram's, BTW, is one of the few mass-produced American gins to actually infuse the botanicals, not just add flavoring extracts. 

It is a serious bargain...Check your local listings.


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## ShieldsOnTour (Dec 8, 2008)

Being a James Bond fan I like this:

2 shots of Tanqueray Gin
1 shot of Stolichnaya Vodka
1/2 shot of Noilly Prat

Put it all in a shaker with lots and lots of ice and shake till its dead.

Serve with a twist of lemon and a beautiful girl on your arm.....


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

If you want to be a purist, he used Gordon's in the novel:

_"Just a moment. Three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?"_


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## ShieldsOnTour (Dec 8, 2008)

Jovan said:


> If you want to be a purist, he used Gordon's in the novel:
> 
> _"Just a moment. Three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?"_


True - but the Gordon's back when the novel was written was much stronger - and modern day Tanqueray is a closer match to the Gin Ian F was writing about.

_"Likewise, Tanqueray Gin provides the traditional flavour of 94-proof gin; whereas Gordon's Gin was reformulated to less than 80-proof."_
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesper_(cocktail)

(Taken from Wikipedia --- so who knows its accuracy!)


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Coleman said:


> Nobody mentioned Tanqueray 10. That's what I was leaning to when I first started this thread. Are there any 10 proponents here? I'm thinking it will be my next experiment.


It's not bad if mixed in a G&T, but I found the extra aromatics in it make it too overpowering and complex for a martini or gimlet. Plymouth and Gordon's (and even regular Tanqueray, for that matter) have that classic "bite" that makes the drink very clean and uncomplicated...IMO, of course.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

Jovan said:


> If you want to be a purist, he used Gordon's in the novel:
> 
> _"Just a moment. Three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?"_


I seem to remember another one of the novels (Moonraker, maybe?) where he drank Boodles gin martinis. Unlike the movies, the book JB seems to have had pretty eclectic tastes in alcohol.

I'm always trying different gins, and I always come back to Beefeater, which seems to have the strongest distinctive gin taste - at least what I call a "gin" taste (piney). 5 to 1 - shaken, not stirred :icon_smile_wink:


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

ShieldsOnTour said:


> True - but the Gordon's back when the novel was written was much stronger - and modern day Tanqueray is a closer match to the Gin Ian F was writing about.
> 
> _"Likewise, Tanqueray Gin provides the traditional flavour of 94-proof gin; whereas Gordon's Gin was reformulated to less than 80-proof."_
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesper_(cocktail)
> ...


Thanks. I actually took the quote from Wikipedia and only later scrolled down to see that. Sure learns me ta speak before I think! 

Is Noilly Prat the best match for Kina Lillet? I found it odd he asked for the Kina in the new movies, given that it isn't produced anymore!


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## ShieldsOnTour (Dec 8, 2008)

Jovan said:


> Thanks. I actually took the quote from Wikipedia and only later scrolled down to see that. Sure learns me ta speak before I think!
> 
> Is Noilly Prat the best match for Kina Lillet? I found it odd he asked for the Kina in the new movies, given that it isn't produced anymore!


I believe it is for the research I did before trying to mix one myself for the first time. Cannot find a link to the original article that pointed me that way though.

Anyway - I guess it does not matter - the main thing is that it tastes good


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Again, this is from Wikipedia (the article Vesper [cocktail]), so put as much stock into it as it is worth - "*Lillet Blanc* (also known as *Lillet Blonde*), which has a lightly floral citrus flavor, is a typical replacement for *Kina Lillet*. "


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

I should add that, to my knowledge, I've never had a Vesper, so Noilly Prat may still taste better. I did get a Vodka Martini from a bartender once after ordering a Martini. I wasn't very pleased but drank it none the less.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Coleman said:


> I should add that, to my knowledge, I've never had a Vesper, so Noilly Prat may still taste better. I did get a Vodka Martini from a bartender once after ordering a Martini. I wasn't very pleased but drank it none the less.


I know I am going against popular convention, but vodka does not a martini make. Gin is the original and most traditional elixr for that cocktail. Vodka and vermouth, shaken or stirred, and served in a "matini" glass is more properly a Gibson (and a cocktail onion garnish).


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

TMMKC said:


> I know I am going against popular convention, but vodka does not a martini make.


I couldn't agree more!


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> I know I am going against popular convention, but vodka does not a martini make. Gin is the original and most traditional elixr for that cocktail. Vodka and vermouth, shaken or stirred, and served in a "matini" glass is more properly a Gibson (and a cocktail onion garnish).


I agree that a martini is more properly served with gin, but the distinguishing characteristic of the Gibson is that it is garnished with a a pickled onion rather than an olive. A Gibson is also traditionally a gin drink and usually understood to be a type of martini.


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## Dashiell.Valentine (Dec 18, 2008)

*A short essay on martinis*

_A while back, I wrote a little guide to mixing martinis. It is my attempt to cobble together basic information from a variety of sources into a short and simple guide, as well as to attempt to resolve some of the timeless debates. I'll post it here, in case anyone might be interested: 

"A dry Martini*, *you always shake to Waltz time."

--Nick Charles in The Thin Man

_Mixing drinks is an essential skill of the drawing room. Whether you, personally, drink them or whether you don't is entirely up to you. But those around you likely will, and they will appreciate it when you mix for them the finest martini ever mixed. You will help resolve the arguments about whether a martini should be shaken or stirred. You will set straight the confusion about how much vermouth belongs in a dry Martini. These are not easy questions to resolve, so let's set to it right away. It is time for a three Martini lunch and you are the cook.

A *Classic Martini* consists of stirring two ounces of gin with 1/2 ounce of dry white vermouth over ice until extremely cold. The liquid is then strained out of the ice and into a glass. The drink is garnished with either one or two stuffed green olives, or a twist (a thin slice of lemon peel twisted over the glass and then dropped in). Although history is a bit cloudy on this issue, these garnishes seem to be the origin of Charles Dicken's ironically chosen name, Oliver Twist. As in, Olive or Twist?

This exact same drink can be made, but with the substitution of vodka for gin. This is often referred to as a *Vodka Martini* but is properly named a *Kangaroo*.

In all cases, if the Martini is shaken as opposed to stirred, then it is referred to as a *Bradford*.

Shaking a Martini has five major advantages. It more fully dissolves and integrates the vermouth. It makes the drink far colder. It causes the drink to be very slightly "watered down" and thus, less sharp. It looks neat, and thanks to icons like Nick Charles and James Bond, it is what people expect. And finally, it is fun to do and makes a musical sound.

The advantages of stirring a Martini are as follows: Some afficianados claim that shaking may "bruise" gin, giving it a slightly bitter flavor. Stirring will also produce a less "watered down" drink. Stirring has a musical tink-tinking quality of its own.

If you want to play it safe and use a logical system, then *shake martinis made with Vodka*, and *stir those made with Gin*. Debate closed. When you shake a martini, shake it however you like until the shaker becomes ice cold.

Debate number two. How much vermouth should be used? This debate is very tricky because people have gotten some strange ideas from watching too much television. As I've mentioned, a normal Martini will have four parts gin or vodka to one part dry vermouth. A *Dry Martini* will have something like five parts Gin or Vodka to one part dry vermouth. An *Extra Dry Martini *would have only a splash of vermouth, and on and on. Today, many Martini bars use ridiculous devices such as misters (makes just a mist of vermouth over the shaker) and people continue to request drier and drier Martinis, having no idea why they are doing so, but merely repeating bits of lore and wisdom that they've heard in the movies. Ordering a "Vodka Martini, extra dry" does have a nice ring to it, but it is also sort of stupid. It is basically saying, "Give me a twelve dollar glass of cold vodka please, but first shake it up a little."

You'll want to avoid that nonsense, and educate those around you. There is one type of person who is well suited to truly drink an Extra Dry Martini and that is the Winston Churchill/George Patton type. Those no nonsense serious drinkers that find the whole mixing drinks notion to be absurd and, frankly, a little "unpatriotic" or "liberal." For those types, and long may they live, I offer the following recipes:

*Churchill or Hitchcock--* Five parts Gin and a quick glance at the bottle of vermouth.

*Clark Gable--* Run a cork moistened with vermouth around the rim of the glass.

*LBJ or the In and Out--* Pour some vermouth in a glass, swirl it around, and dump it out before pouring the Martini.

*George Patton-- *Point the bottle of vermouth in the direction of Italy.

Anther variant of the Classic Martini that is worth trying is the *Dirty Martini*, which includes a splash of olive juice from the olive jar. This can be made with or without vermouth.

All Martinis may be served in any glass that will hold them. Proper Martini glasses are nice, but not mandatory. Consider suiting the type of glass to the individual you are mixing the drink for. Old jars can make suitable glasses in the right context. All martinis are served *"straight up"* meaning, without ice.


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

Wow, vermouth lovers here! I can't stand too much of it, and I like my gin martini's extra dry. I put 2 splashes of vermouth into an ice filled shaker, shake it around so the it has coated the ice and pour the rest out. If I could get away with it, I'd rather shake the bottle over the shaker and call it a day! Add in your gin, Saphhire Bombay is what I need to venture out and try the suggestions here, 1 or 2 drips of bitters (you are adding bitters right?) and shake. I started with the standard olives as garnish but the aftertaste overcomes the gin too much so I go with a twist (of lemon) instead and it makes the flavor much more smooth and the gin (not the olives) stand out. Don't get me started on dirty martini's either


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## ShieldsOnTour (Dec 8, 2008)

Dashiell.Valentine said:


> _A while back, I wrote a little guide to mixing martinis. It is my attempt to cobble together basic information from a variety of sources into a short and simple guide, as well as to attempt to resolve some of the timeless debates. I'll post it here, in case anyone might be interested:
> _


_

Thanks Dashiell - a very informative article, I enjoyed reading it. A lot of great information in there.

After the chat about Vespa's last night I ended up drinking 4 or 5 large ones. Do not feel so good today and I blame you all :icon_smile_big:_


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## mbebeau (Feb 6, 2009)

Just tried a vesper for the first time last night. It was a pleasant surprise. Thanks for the tip!


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Well, after 3 experiments (1 last night and 2 tonight) I think my ratio is 9 (gin) to 1 (dry vermouth). That may be too little vermouth to qualify as a martini for some, but it's perfecto for me.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

ShieldsOnTour said:


> Thanks Dashiell - a very informative article, I enjoyed reading it. A lot of great information in there.


+1. I found the bit about extra dry martinis pretty funny.



ShieldsOnTour said:


> After the chat about Vespa's last night I ended up drinking 4 or 5 large ones. Do not feel so good today and I blame you all :icon_smile_big:


I like how you wrote James Bond's accent into that sentence. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Resurrecting an old thread in a gin induced reverie...I’m ashamed to admit it, but we alternate between martinis and old fashioneds. I cannot get my bride to broaden the repertoire. Anyway, we’ve tried a LOT of gins (Bombay white and Sapphire, Hendrick’s, Boodles, Plymouth, Tanq, Botanist, Caorunn, various small batch locals like various St. George’s like Terroir and Botanivore, Citadelle, etc.) and vermouths (Noilly, M &R, Vya, Dolin, etc.), proportions, garnishes, shaking, stirring, etc. For just a solid traditional martini we’ve settled on Beefeater and Dolin, shaken (not stirred) 38 times (don’t ask, just try it), 3:1, garnished with a Mezzetta olive packed in vermouth rather than brine). Chill the glasses. It’s classic. Beefeater is an absolute bargain compared with others. Trust me. If you are a martini lover and don’t like it, I’ll drink whatever is left...for FREE!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

My gin is drunk with tonic and a twist. Never had a martini. Perhaps I ought to consider one.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Indeed...Tanqueray + Schweppes Tonic water = refreshment on a hot, humid summers day!


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Oldsarge said:


> My gin is drunk with tonic and a twist. Never had a martini. Perhaps I ought to consider one.


A friend once described them. He said, "It's like walking into a cloud."


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

TKI67 said:


> Resurrecting an old thread in a gin induced reverie...I'm ashamed to admit it, but we alternate between martinis and old fashioneds. I cannot get my bride to broaden the repertoire. Anyway, we've tried a LOT of gins (Bombay white and Sapphire, Hendrick's, Boodles, Plymouth, Tanq, Botanist, Caorunn, various small batch locals like various St. George's like Terroir and Botanivore, Citadelle, etc.) and vermouths (Noilly, M &R, Vya, Dolin, etc.), proportions, garnishes, shaking, stirring, etc. For just a solid traditional martini we've settled on Beefeater and Dolin, shaken (not stirred) 38 times (don't ask, just try it), 3:1, garnished with a Mezzetta olive packed in vermouth rather than brine). Chill the glasses. It's classic. Beefeater is an absolute bargain compared with others. Trust me. If you are a martini lover and don't like it, I'll drink whatever is left...for FREE!


I also enjoy martinis and applaud your recipe. I never understood the point of omitting vermouth, often with odd emphasis. If a gentleman wants straight gin he should just order straight gin -- no need for the martini pretense. I especially agree that Beefeater is an excellent gin and a bargain.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

The first martini I ever had was with gin. Never tried vodka and I’ve never really cared for vodka. 

I like mine garnished with lemon rind.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

SG_67 said:


> The first martini I ever had was with gin. Never tried vodka and I've never really cared for vodka.
> 
> I like mine garnished with lemon rind.


Traditionalists cannot abide the notion of calling any cocktail a martini if it does not include gin, though some such as myself will allow for the addition (as opposed to the substitution) of vodka in acknowledgement of the "vesper" inspired by Ian Fleming's inimitable James Bond.

In any case vodka is flavorless (aside from the alcohol itself), notwithstanding the passionate claims to the contrary by its devotees. This makes it the perfect spirit for people who enjoy cocktails but don't actually enjoy the taste of other distilled spirits, clear or brown.

I generally prefer my martinis to be garnished with olives and just a little dirty, except in the hot days of summer when a simple lemon twist seems more refreshing -- but of course to each his own.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Wow, bunch o' boozers here.

I believe the Creator alloted every individual a certiain life time ration of likker and I'm ashamed to say I ran through mine by the time I'd reached 35. So no martinis for me. Now, or like Sarge, ever. In the days of utter waste it was Cap't Morgan's with soda and a dollop of molasses. Haah-rrrrrrr. I do not miss it. I am now a paragon of the unaltered state. And got goose-bump scared by the mention above that downing a 'tini was like walking into a cloud. So's meth, I hear.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Mike Petrik said:


> Traditionalists cannot abide the notion of calling any cocktail a martini if it does not include gin, though some such as myself will allow for the addition (as opposed to the substitution) of vodka in acknowledgement of the "vesper" inspired by Ian Fleming's inimitable James Bond.
> 
> In any case vodka is flavorless (aside from the alcohol itself), notwithstanding the passionate claims to the contrary by its devotees. This makes it the perfect spirit for people who enjoy cocktails but don't actually enjoy the taste of other distilled spirits, clear or brown.
> 
> I generally prefer my martinis to be garnished with olives and just a little dirty, except in the hot days of summer when a simple lemon twist seems more refreshing -- but of course to each his own.


I like a twist too. It's been awhile, but my wife used to like pickled okra. I dubbed it the Marthibodeaux. I never tried it. Ages ago I liked onions and Gibsons, but not anymore. To me a measure of a good martini is if it's but a memory before your attention turns to the garnish. BTW a spectacular accompaniment is jalapeño potato chips.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Peak and Pine said:


> Wow, bunch o' boozers here.
> 
> I believe the Creator alloted every individual a certiain life time ration of likker and I'm ashamed to say I ran through mine by the time I'd reached 35. So no martinis for me. Now, or like Sarge, ever. In the days of utter waste it was Cap't Morgan's with soda and a dollop of molasses. Haah-rrrrrrr. I do not miss it. I am now a paragon of the unaltered state. And got goose-bump scared by the mention above that downing a 'tini was like walking into a cloud. So's meth, I hear.


On the belief that a God only gives you so many heartbeats and if you use them up foolishly that's your problem, some people avoid exercise. Glad you've found a state with which you are comfortable.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

TKI67 said:


> On the belief that a God only gives you so many heartbeats and if you use them up foolishly that's your problem, some people avoid exercise. Glad you've found a state with which you are comfortable.


Jesus changed water into wine, and a gentlemen needs his fruits and grains. 

That said, I appreciate the fact that some folks find it difficult to drink in moderation. My good LDS friends tell me that the real reason for their abstinence rule is as a collective act of charity for the benefit of that minority. That is sensible and admirable. Glad I'm a Catholic though.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

This Lutheran agrees. Father Martin loved his beer and Kate was renowned throughout Wittensburg for her brewing. I cannot help but approve. Good attitude to have in Portland . . .


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

TKI67 said:


> Resurrecting an old thread in a gin induced reverie...I'm ashamed to admit it, but we alternate between martinis and old fashioneds. I cannot get my bride to broaden the repertoire. Anyway, we've tried a LOT of gins (Bombay white and Sapphire, Hendrick's, Boodles, Plymouth, Tanq, Botanist, Caorunn, various small batch locals like various St. George's like Terroir and Botanivore, Citadelle, etc.) and vermouths (Noilly, M &R, Vya, Dolin, etc.), proportions, garnishes, shaking, stirring, etc. For just a solid traditional martini we've settled on Beefeater and Dolin, shaken (not stirred) 38 times (don't ask, just try it), 3:1, garnished with a Mezzetta olive packed in vermouth rather than brine). Chill the glasses. It's classic. Beefeater is an absolute bargain compared with others. Trust me. If you are a martini lover and don't like it, I'll drink whatever is left...for FREE!


I agree with you re; the Beefeater's. I'm not familiar with Dolin. Is that your preferred dry vermouth? How does it compare with M&R or Stock? If you had to list your top 4 dry vermouth's in order of preference, what would they be?


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Also agree re Beefeater. Back in the day the two highest end gins generally available in the US were Beefeater and Tanqueray, with Beefeater being slightly higher priced. The changes since the 1970s are a function of the introduction of many so-called "craft" gins as well as marketing. While folks are certainly entitled to their flavor preferences, the general reputational decline of Beefeater (including relative to Tanqueray) is 100% a function of marketing. Tanqueray upped their advertising and their pricepoint while Beefeater decided it would be more profitable to go simply stay upscale. The recipes never changed. Beefeater is an excellent London dry gin and a bargain.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

FiscalDean said:


> I agree with you re; the Beefeater's. I'm not familiar with Dolin. Is that your preferred dry vermouth? How does it compare with M&R or Stock? If you had to list your top 4 dry vermouth's in order of preference, what would they be?


I find Dolin lighter and less aggressive than the others. While it definitely adds its own notes, it leaves the gin front and center. I like Vya, which is quite assertive, with a gin that is very light, like Boodles or even Bluecoat. I'd plunk M & R and Noilly in the middle with M & R being the less obtrusive choice. I like Noilly, especially with Bombay white at the holidays, but the rest of the year it's just too resinous for me. I haven't had Stock enough to comment on it.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Mike Petrik said:


> Also agree re Beefeater. Back in the day the two highest end gins generally available in the US were Beefeater and Tanqueray, with Beefeater being slightly higher priced. The changes since the 1970s are a function of the introduction of many so-called "craft" gins as well as marketing. While folks are certainly entitled to their flavor preferences, the general reputational decline of Beefeater (including relative to Tanqueray) is 100% a function of marketing. Tanqueray upped their advertising and their pricepoint while Beefeater decided it would be more profitable to go simply stay upscale. The recipes never changed. Beefeater is an excellent London dry gin and a bargain.


That's why it is so important to try them all!

;0)


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

TKI67 said:


> Resurrecting an old thread in a gin induced reverie...I'm ashamed to admit it, but we alternate between martinis and old fashioneds. I cannot get my bride to broaden the repertoire. Anyway, we've tried a LOT of gins (Bombay white and Sapphire, Hendrick's, Boodles, Plymouth, Tanq, Botanist, Caorunn, various small batch locals like various St. George's like Terroir and Botanivore, Citadelle, etc.) and vermouths (Noilly, M &R, Vya, Dolin, etc.), proportions, garnishes, shaking, stirring, etc. For just a solid traditional martini we've settled on Beefeater and Dolin, shaken (not stirred) 38 times (don't ask, just try it), 3:1, garnished with a Mezzetta olive packed in vermouth rather than brine). Chill the glasses. It's classic. Beefeater is an absolute bargain compared with others. Trust me. If you are a martini lover and don't like it, I'll drink whatever is left...for FREE!


Are there any thought on the Hendrick's Gin you would care to share with us? is it any good?


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Are there any thought on the Hendrick's Gin you would care to share with us? is it any good?


Sorry for the intrusion (I know the question was not directed to me), but Hendrick's is an excellent gin. Whether it is better than or inferior to Beefeater is purely a matter of taste. Mrs. P prefers Hendrick's whereas I prefer Beefeater, but we agree that both are exceptionally fine gins. FWIW Hendrick's reportedly adds some botanicals after distillation, which means that some purists might not regard it as a true London Dry gin, and therefore they would say apples (Beefeater) cannot be compared with oranges (Hendrick's). I don't lose sleep over such technicalities. Drink what you like -- London Dry, Old Tom, or anything in between -- just don't let anyone else decide what you like, especially adverts.


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

TKI67 said:


> I find Dolin lighter and less aggressive than the others. While it definitely adds its own notes, it leaves the gin front and center. I like Vya, which is quite assertive, with a gin that is very light, like Boodles or even Bluecoat. I'd plunk M & R and Noilly in the middle with M & R being the less obtrusive choice. I like Noilly, especially with Bombay white at the holidays, but the rest of the year it's just too resinous for me. I haven't had Stock enough to comment on it.


Thanks for your input. I'll have to keep an eye out for a bottle of Dolin.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mike Petrik said:


> Sorry for the intrusion (I know the question was not directed to me), but Hendricks is an excellent gin. Whether it is better than or inferior to Beefeater is purely a matter of taste. Mrs. P prefers Hendrick's whereas I prefer Beefeater, but we both agree they are both fine gins. FWIW Hendricks adds some botanicals after distillation, which means that some purists might not regard it as a London Dry gin. They would say apples cannot be compared with oranges. I don't lose sleep over such technicalities. Drink what you like -- London Dry, Old Tom's or anything in between -- just don't let anyone else decide what you like, especially adverts.


I greatly appreciate and respect your opinion, Mike. I will add Hendricks to our list for the next visit to the Class 6 store! Thank you for the response.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> Are there any thought on the Hendrick's Gin you would care to share with us? is it any good?


I think it is delicious, if a bit unusual, and much too expensive. People say it tastes of cucumber, but even if cucumber is in it, it's very faint. It's so smooth I understand why some have called it a gateway gin.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

TKI67 said:


> I find Dolin lighter and less aggressive than the others. While it definitely adds its own notes, it leaves the gin front and center. I like Vya, which is quite assertive, with a gin that is very light, like Boodles or even Bluecoat. I'd plunk M & R and Noilly in the middle with M & R being the less obtrusive choice. I like Noilly, especially with Bombay white at the holidays, but the rest of the year it's just too resinous for me. I haven't had Stock enough to comment on it.


The Martini was named after M&R so it is hard for a traditionalist like me to get excited about experimenting with other vermouths. Yes, that is not entirely rational, and I have no doubt that Dolin and some others are wonderful, and if I branched out some I'd probably find something I like even better than M&R. We all have our shortcomings.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

TKI67 said:


> I think it is delicious, if a bit unusual, and much too expensive. People say it tastes of cucumber, but even if cucumber is in it, it's very faint. It's so smooth I understand why some have called it a gateway gin.


I agree about the cucumber, and also agree it is very faint and not obtrusive in any way. And yes it is pricey and a good value only for people who both prefer it and have the means to purchase it without being imprudent. In my case that would be wifey. But as noted in this thread, it is hard to beat Beefeater for value, assuming you like London Dry style.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Mike Petrik said:


> The Martini was named after M&R so it is hard for a traditionalist like me to get excited about experimenting with other vermouths. Yes, that is not entirely rational, and I have no doubt that Dolin and some others are wonderful, and if I branched out some I'd probably find something I like even better than M&R. We all have our shortcomings.


I think M & R is an excellent choice. Truth be known, my wife, who is also a Hendricks fan, finds it too assertive. Dolin, even in a 3:1, is very subtle.


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