# Naughty men and sad women



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

With the continued fall out of men, now including Charlie Rose, which I suspected might happen. I kinda wonder how much is mental and how much is biological that causes these errors. Men are different than so many animals. We can have sex anytime. Horses, bulls, etc., including whales, it is biological. What is it? Pheromones of estus that excite the male animals for sex. Does the subconscious males of men pick up this scent? How powerful is it? If so, how should males be taught how to handle this persuasive scent their subconscious mind might be picking up on? Has scientists studied this at all? If this is true, then how should women be taught to avoid advances with out always blaming the man? No doubt some men take advantage or, whatever, therefore, guilty. But, is it always the case? Some men avoid these problems. Is it better teaching and demands. Maybe the lessons do a better job of countering the biological? Perhaps there is no biological for us human males. Having spent time out in the farmland and seeing bulls all a suddenly forget their eating grass and head straight for the cow a number of times, I just wonder if there is more to human males than is presently known. Watched a stallion get very excited about a beautiful woman. If her husband had been there...don't want a baby, sleep on the couch for a few days. The biological is very powerful with animals. But, does it affect us men? And, how powerful? Are we sometimes, or, some of us, being falsely accused?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Yes except that as human beings we are endowed with reason and moral agency. 

Of course, one can see how the pendulum could swing to the absurb where a simple “good morning” can be construed as harassment.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

WA said:


> ...... *Watched a stallion get very excited about a beautiful woman. If her husband had been there..*..


"Oh wait, no way, you're kidding?
He didn't just say what I think he did, did he?"

-Marshall Bruce Mathers III


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I am always inclined to question the motivations for reports/allegations made 20 and 30 and eve 40 years after the fact. Over time societal standards and social expectations change, hopefully evolving in positive directions. Teenagers, both male and female, age and mature, hopefully becoming more thoughtful and more honorable in their ways. Politics are perhaps the most deceitful and yes, even dishonorable career paths a person can choose to walk. Politics is an activity that honorable men and women get involved in for a short while to add some perceived value to the Republic. Those who chose to make politics a career are frequently and perhaps most often, less than honorable in their actions and intent! Just some random thoughts. :icon_saint7kg:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Act like a gentleman and you will be treated as one.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Responsible adult humans have agency for their actions and should be held accountable. "The devil made me do it/I am a sex addict/You should have seen what she was wearing" argument is moronic, infantilizes men and should be left in the dust bin of the dark ages where it belongs.

Many of the recent transgressions reported in the media appear to have more to do with power, control and manipulation than sex. If these guys only wanted to get their freak on with hot chicks they certainly had the resources and access to far less destructive and abusive options. But it appears that they wanted to dominate specific women for a purpose. 

We all have a prehistoric lizard brain, but we also have a conscience to assist in circumscribing our desires and keeping our passions within due bounds. 

I am certainly no moralist and all people are flawed and make mistakes in life. But we all know where the limits are and those who pretend otherwise are liars and scoundrels. Forcing oneself on any person is beneath contempt and swift criminal action should be taken when merited. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

There was a time in the judicial process, found to be alive and apparently not quite so well, in this Country, that the accused was innocent until proven guilty. Such doesn't seem to be the case in this present instance. The Judge has consistently proclaimed his innocence and in fact two of his accusers claims seem to have been factually debunked and just this morning the Washington Post reported a person trying to claim they were assaulted by Judge Moore when they were just 14 was nothing but a scam. How many of the other reports might prove to be false? Are we witnessing nothing more than just another attempted political assassination? :icon_scratch:


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## Underachiever (Jan 27, 2016)

eagle2250 said:


> There was a time in the judicial process, found to be alive and apparently not quite so well, in this Country, that the accused was innocent until proven guilty. Such doesn't seem to be the case in this present instance. The Judge has consistently proclaimed his innocence and in fact two of his accusers claims seem to have been factually debunked and just this morning the Washington Post reported a person trying to claim they were assaulted by Judge Moore when they were just 14 was nothing but a scam. How many of the other reports might prove to be false? Are we witnessing nothing more than just another attempted political assassination? :icon_scratch:


A scam by a conservative group, to trick the Washington Post into saying something, on a secret recording, that one could take out of context in order to make them look bad? Because that's what I see them reporting...

(view in incognito/private window, to get past the paywall)

I have no comment on the honesty of his accusers, but the "it was so long ago, he's run for public office before, why is this just coming out now" trope is ridiculous, in this case -- he's run for State Supreme Court Justice, which doesn't garner national reporting like a Senate (especially one taking place in the current political climate) race does, and thus garners less expenditure of resources from journalists and the media, as well. Less attention, less money, less digging. Most Americans can't name a single State Supreme Court Justice from their own state. I'm a political science major, and I can only name two -- because I've met one, and one was my father's classmate. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't be able to name even one. Not a stretch to think his accusers weren't even aware he was running for State Supreme Court. Then there's the whole "he's a powerful man" argument, but that's another issue entirely.

I'm all for due process, but I'm also for intellectual honesty.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

This is a complex issue, but I'm a simple guy! 

So, I have to keep it simple. Essentially I view it as an abuse of authority. Anytime there is a coercive element of any kind in the sexual attention, it's wrong. Often it can be circumstantial such as between a boss and subordinate, teacher and student, adult and child or adolescent. Or it can involve uninvited and unwanted physical intimacy. (I.e., playing grab-***.)

But I can think of exceptions even within those rather narrow confines, and outside them, the issue can begin to become rather foggy.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

It is true that many high profile sexual assault cases that occasionally rage in the media often come to nothing and some presumption of innocence is warranted. The Duke La Crosse team rape scandal and Tawana Brawley to name just two. 

Others, like the numerous Clinton imbroglios seem to gain more veracity as time passes. 

There has been a great deal of hand wringing in the media about degree of impropriety and how to separate the rapists from the mere jerks. Weinstein and Spacey are clearly at one end of the spectrum while Franken and Judge Moore fall somewhere toward the other end. 

Some cast a shadow on the motives of women who go years or decades without reporting sexual assault or impropriety. To those, I can only say that if it was your wife, daughter or sister, how would your perception change?

Cheers, 

BSR


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^With a wife, two daughters and four granddaughters
if one were to report being sexually assaulted, I would hunt the Ba*tards down and bring them to justice in a very personal way...but I wouldn't wait 40 years to do it!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^With a wife, two daughters and four granddaughters
> if one were to report being sexually assaulted, I would hunt the Ba*tards down and bring them to justice in a very personal way...but I wouldn't wait 40 years to do it!


Quite right my friend.

However, in our epoch rape sometimes equals regret, assault is often but a clumsy pass and vindictive allegation might be the perfect vengeance of the disaffected female.

Which, of course, devalues authentic crimes. But why should 3rd wave feminists concern themselves with the plight of women?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

BTW WA, whilst I am no expert in this field, allow me to inform you that the erection of a cetacean is entirely voluntary.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Underachiever said:


> A scam by a conservative group, to trick the Washington Post into saying something, on a secret recording, that one could take out of context in order to make them look bad? Because that's what I see them reporting...
> 
> (view in incognito/private window, to get past the paywall)
> 
> ...


Responding to the second paragraph of your post, your logic is pretty hollow. Judge Moore's purported victims live in the same community as he does or at least in the same region. They knew who he was, where he lived and, based on their present day allegations, they seem to have retained very detailed memories of his offending actions. State wide vs national elections have nothing to do with the reality in this present instance that his alleged victims knew who he was and could easily have found him to lodge their complaints well before now! What does being able to identify our State Supreme Court Justices have to do with anything? :icon_scratch:


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

I too have a bit of a problem with 30-40 year old allegations. They may be true and they may not be. I honestly haven’t been following it as much. Let the people of Alabama decide. My guess is he will probably get elected but by a narrower margin than a republican normally would. 

Afterward, I think you’ll notice Gloria Allred will move along to the next opportunity. 

On a side note, Matt Lauer was just fired.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Bang, you're gone!

(A long way from 9 Broadcast Plaza!)










You too!


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies. I find it hard to believe so many men forced kisses and hugs and whatever else they did as much as said. Emotional cases a couple of times can take us for a surprise, and then you certainly know what's around those curves down that road to stay away from such close contact. Of course some people are not what we think they are. The one that hits me the most is Charlie Rose. How could he have ever made it so far? Then there are cases like Clarence Thomas who accuser followed him from job to job. If you were asulted would you follow? One job I had the women were so raunchy it was hard to be in the same room. One boss said that one woman who had worked there was so bad that men actually quit working there. And that's just words without touching.

In the sixties or early seventies I think there was some research that technology wasn't advanced enough to give an answer. Sexual urges and random erxxxxx sometimes I wonder what's causing some of them. Worked jobs where no women around (carpentry and some other jobs). But, working with a number of women around and there is whole lot more urges and activities (in the panxs) going on then when women aren't around. Back in the days of middle school and high school.... Some people are brainwashed into being embarrassed about this sort of subject, then there can never be any constructive progress.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Shaver said:


> "Oh wait, no way, you're kidding?
> He didn't just say what I think he did, did he?"
> 
> -Marshall Bruce Mathers III


Your funny. 
If you grew up around dairy cows or beef it is not like city children growing up. At the fair it can be rather interesting watching city parents around their children. Just watch the movie City Slicker and see the calf being born. How many country children have been up at three in the morning doing that? Sometimes the whole family is out there with dozens of cows, ewes, nannies and mares that need help. Sometimes they're taking turns while the others sleep. Think I was eight when our goat had a baby and I snuck in the house instead of helping dad in the barn. He didn't yell at me. But, he was disappointed. We were living in the city then. Some people thought that that part of the city was out in the country. As a preschooler I saw a cow or two getting dehorned. Lots of blood there. White powder of some sort to stop the bleeding. A burcher shooting a cow. And, of course, chickens loosing there heads at the chomping block. One of the worst parts is all the weeding in the garden. The food is good.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Discussing this situ with my female subordinate at work makes me fear that the "men as predators" narrative is running amok. Of course women have n-e-v-e-r abused or assaulted men and all men are pigs. The knives are out, big time. 

I see threats of EEO complaints aplenty in the future if one ever, ever makes any comment that can possible be misconstrued. Frankly, I think this will make male employers less inclined to hire women and set women's position in the workplace back a decade. What business needs the potential liability? All it takes is some aggrieved employee to start lobbing accusations and heads will roll and settlement money will fall from the skies. 

Dark days ahead. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
In my experience I have observed both men and women engaged in rather bawdy and arguably inappropriate behavior in the workplace and it seems to have become the thing to do for women to step forward and report instances of sexual harassment. I am left wondering if it will ever become the thing to do for men to report such acts of abuse, visited upon them by all those female leeches encountered at work!


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> In my experience I have observed both men and women engaged in rather bawdy and arguably inappropriate behavior in the workplace and it seems to have become the thing to do for women to step forward and report instances of sexual harassment. I am left wondering if it will ever become the thing to do for men to report such acts of abuse, visited upon them by all those female leeches encountered at work!


I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm constantly being greeted by attempted hugs from women who are colleagues and even employees.

I generally refuse and go for a handshake. I don't hug men at work and so I'm not making an exception for women.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Discussing this situ with my female subordinate at work makes me fear that the "men as predators" narrative is running amok. Of course women have n-e-v-e-r abused or assaulted men and all men are pigs. The knives are out, big time.
> 
> I see threats of EEO complaints aplenty in the future if one ever, ever makes any comment that can possible be misconstrued. Frankly, I think this will make male employers less inclined to hire women and set women's position in the workplace back a decade. What business needs the potential liability? All it takes is some aggrieved employee to start lobbing accusations and heads will roll and settlement money will fall from the skies.
> 
> ...


+1.

Human nature being what it is, unscrupulous individuals of both sexes will undoubtedly use this heightened level of interest as an opportunity to advance their own agendas. And the popular press is already pouncing on any and all allegations and throwing the whole mess into the same hat. Conflating a serial sexual predator who uses their authority to physically abuse subordinates and junior colleagues with someone who may have hugged or done something similar with someone, or made an off-color joke, demeans the seriousness of some of these allegations, and of the women (Or men!) who made them.

The PC Police are out! Make a salty joke in mixed company, and off with your head!



eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> In my experience I have observed both men and women engaged in rather bawdy and arguably inappropriate behavior in the workplace and it seems to have become the thing to do for women to step forward and report instances of sexual harassment. I am left wondering if it will ever become the thing to do for men to report such acts of abuse, visited upon them by all those female leeches encountered at work!


Having survived in a corporate environment for 20+ years where adultery was the favorite indoor sport, and sex with subordinates was once considered a management prerogative, I am very sensitive to, and outraged by some of the allegations being made. I found any such coercive behavior both disgusting and infuriating. But I don't think there were many, if any, who didn't know the difference between voluntary dalliances desired by both parties (Morally wrong, or not.) and managers who deliberately placed subordinates in compromising situations and exploited their vulnerability.

Equally guilty as the offenders was a culture that not only tolerated much of this, but actually encouraged it. One manager in particular was known by his peers to be an alcoholic predatory homosexual who harassed and abused his male subordinates. That this individual, and other similar heterosexual individuals, were kept in place and protected by them nauseates me to this day.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Flanderian, my friend,
you have very accurately described the work environment that I recall. I would only add that the annual office parties during the holidays, at which alcohol was added to the mix, generally brought out the worst examples of human behavior.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Interesting. The US isn't at all the same country it was 40 years ago in so many ways. The way Trump talks and some other ways of speech that people spoke seems to have vanished. What surprised me is some of the older reporters had forgotten these ways of speech and the news given out in error. The young reporters who grew up under pc are excusable, but the older reporters?


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Dustin Hoffman, his head is upon the chopping block now.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

As a resident of Alabama, I just want this election to be over and done. Daily, I am assaulted by phone pollsters and political junk mail. I am in the unfortunate position of not giving a hairy rat's *** about either candidate. Sexual impropriety accusations aside, I just don't like Roy Moore. He's a demagogue who was removed from the bench TWICE for not doing his job. We have enough dead weight in the beltway to add this self-righteous POS to the mix. I will never understand why the Republicans nominated Moore over Luther Strange. Sure, Strange was a lapdog for Mitch McConnell. So what? He was still a solid voice for a solidly conservative constituency. Moore is the antithesis of what is needed to make a good US Senator. Dear God... I pray for this backwards state.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

drlivingston said:


> As a resident of Alabama, I just want this election to be over and done. Daily, I am assaulted by phone pollsters and political junk mail. I am in the unfortunate position of not giving a hairy rat's *** about either candidate. Sexual impropriety accusations aside, I just don't like Roy Moore. He's a demagogue who was removed from the bench TWICE for not doing his job. We have enough dead weight in the beltway to add this self-righteous POS to the mix. I will never understand why the Republicans nominated Moore over Luther Strange. Sure, Strange was a lapdog for Mitch McConnell. So what? He was still a solid voice for a solidly conservative constituency. Moore is the antithesis of what is needed to make a good US Senator. Dear God... I pray for this backwards state.


Dr. Livingston,

Yes, I can sympathize. Although born in Carrollton, Georgia ('68), I was raised in Andalusia, Alabama ('71-'80). It was a rather idyllic rural childhood for a middle class white child. A real Andy Griffith Show existence, except the part where my father had to carry a gun on his sales runs to Montgomery and Birmingham due to racial unrest and bombs going off. There was also the extreme poverty of my black classmates who lived in the third world shanties down by the train tracks. But some progress was being made; our school was peacefully integrated and our P.E. coach, Coach Simpson and our Librarian, Mr. Webb were the first black teachers. They were civil rights pioneers and both fine men. Our town was so small that everyone, black and white, knew each other, most everyone worked side by side in the textile or pulpwood mills, so the animus suffered in the big cities was avoided. At least the children were unaware, which is something.

I once toured the office of Gov. George Wallace when he was serving his post assassination attempt term, and our next door neighbor was former Speaker Seth Hammett. Bear Bryant came to Andalusia each year to play in the big domino tournament. I suppose my bona fides as a son of the south are rock solid.

Besides learning to read, another thing I developed during my Alabama childhood was a highly attuned ear for the dog whistle of class, race and white Southern victimization; the godly "us" against the "godless" them. I learned all the visual, verbal and social signals of the "tribe". Judge Moore with his bible thumping, horse riding, cowboy hat wearing, leather vest sporting, clean cut down home demeanor is pushing all the anglo-saxon buttons. I haven't seen him wrap himself in the St. Andrew Cross, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did. He is a nasty piece of walking nostalgia for a past that needs to stay in the past. There are some people who fall into a state of near religious ecstasy when they hear the dog whistle blow, and they never tire of having that tune played on the juke box.

I sometimes feel the tug as well, but I am aware of it, I guard my heart against it and I know that pied pipers with bad intentions can sway 50% +1 with regularity.

Dangerous times.

Cheers,

BSR


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

The 'tug' is the force of reason versus faddish absurdity - it is only natural to despise the despicable.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

drlivingston said:


> As a resident of Alabama, I just want this election to be over and done. Daily, I am assaulted by phone pollsters and political junk mail. I am in the unfortunate position of not giving a hairy rat's *** about either candidate. Sexual impropriety accusations aside, I just don't like Roy Moore. He's a demagogue who was removed from the bench TWICE for not doing his job. We have enough dead weight in the beltway to add this self-righteous POS to the mix. I will never understand why the Republicans nominated Moore over Luther Strange. Sure, Strange was a lapdog for Mitch McConnell. So what? He was still a solid voice for a solidly conservative constituency. Moore is the antithesis of what is needed to make a good US Senator. Dear God... I pray for this backwards state.


This is the best argument against electing Roy Moore that I have read to date...his "past performance in office predicts p*ss poor performance" in offices to which he might be elected in the future! I simply cannot recall any past period when our electoral process was as dysfunctional as it seems to be in this age of media spread disinformation. Thank you for this moment of hope!


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

eagle2250 said:


> This is the best argument against electing Roy Moore that I have read to date...his "past performance in office predicts p*ss poor performance" in offices to which he might be elected in the future! I simply cannot recall any past period when our electoral process was as dysfunctional as it seems to be in this age of media spread disinformation. Thank you for this moment of hope!


I think this argument can be made against any number of elected members of Congress. Why stop at Roy Moore?


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Politics is in so many things. Including religion. Manipulation through religion to get ones greed has been done for thousands of years. The Christian religion itself has been abused by greedy people posing as Christians. Greedy people are in politics, too. Look at Hitler, Stalin, etc. People who have to be told by other people what to think are a problem. They shouldn't be allowed to vote. My perspective is that most Democrat voters are brainwashed. If they really knew what Republicans are about I wouldn't think they are brainwashed. But since don't what other explanation is there? The Republican party is changing, and some of it is not for the better. And who can vote for the progressives who are rewriting history because they don't like the past and don't want the newer generations to even know our history. The truth is not well liked.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

"Alabama's much-ridiculed preference for officials regarded as unfit by the rest of the nation is embedded in tradition, but Mr. Trump's success argues that this is now a national tic. He won with the tools that have cast spells on Alabama voters for two centuries: race, religion, hysterical oratory, intimidation of critics and economic three-card monte dealt by big-business hand jivers."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/opinion/sunday/roy-moores-alabama.html

Cheers,

BSR


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> "Alabama's much-ridiculed preference for officials regarded as unfit by the rest of the nation is embedded in tradition, but Mr. Trump's success argues that this is now a national tic. He won with the tools that have cast spells on Alabama voters for two centuries: race, religion, hysterical oratory, intimidation of critics and economic three-card monte dealt by big-business hand jivers."
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/opinion/sunday/roy-moores-alabama.html
> 
> ...


Of course the NYT has it figured out.

One could say something similar about northeastern and Californian liberal voters.

Substitute the environment and abortion on demand and you're hitting on the mothers milk of liberal political thought.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> "Alabama's much-ridiculed preference for officials regarded as unfit by the rest of the nation is embedded in tradition, but Mr. Trump's success argues that this is now a national tic. He won with the tools that have cast spells on Alabama voters for two centuries: race, religion, hysterical oratory, intimidation of critics and economic three-card monte dealt by big-business hand jivers."
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/opinion/sunday/roy-moores-alabama.html
> 
> ...


Too bad that Lewis Grizzard isn't still around to write a satirical rebuttal to the Times' opinion.


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## irish95 (Sep 27, 2011)

You got to love Roy's wife and her "Jew lawyer" comment. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. Priceless. I'd be interested to see how much that affected his chance at winning.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I had a FaceBook conversation with a cousin who lives in Massachusetts. He wondered how so many people in our state could vote for a pedophile. I politely told him that it was fewer than the number of voters in his state that elected a murderer to the same position (more than once.)


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

drlivingston said:


> I had a FaceBook conversation with a cousin who lives in Massachusetts. He wondered how so many people in our state could vote for a pedophile. I politely told him that it was fewer than the number of voters in his state that elected a murderer to the same position (more than once.)


I think plenty of scum bags are elected on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. The south certainly does not hold a monopoly on this market.

How many recent Illinois governors have been in Club Fed? Wiener anyone? No region would come out ahead in this accounting.

Cheers,

BSR


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

What seems to have changed is the nature of the political parties and that of those seeking office through them. While in NJ the Democratic Party has always tended to be mainly a means for those seeking personal advancement to attain it, the Republican Party also attracted a patrician element more concerned with doing good as they saw it, and requiring little additional personal enrichment.

While I am too old and experienced/cynical to paint any politician as all good or all bad, three who come to mind are:

Former universally respected governor Tom Kean Sr. -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Kean










Former U.S. Congressional Rep. Peter Frelinghuysen Jr. who fought both big government *and* big business successfully to help save The Great Swamp and create a National Wildlife Refuge. (Obviously from an era when conservatism still meant conserving!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Frelinghuysen_Jr.










And Millicent Fenwick former U.S. Congressional Rep and U.N. Ambassador, and inspiration for the character Lacey Davenport in the Doonesbury strip.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millicent_Fenwick


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

How closely do the core character(s) of our politicians reflect the character(s) of the respective generations from which they have come? I suspect the reality is that the fit of such comparisons is a lot closer than we might like to admit. A few years back, it was my great pleasure to read Tom Brokaw's book titled "The Greatest Generation." I greatly admired what Brokaw had detailed and that I read of those men and women! As I consider our present circumstance and the characteristically shallow natures and the "it's all about me" perspectives of so many members of more recent generations, I am left wondering 'are we up to the challenge' of effectively confronting today's issues. Can we do it?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> How closely do the core character(s) of our politicians reflect the character(s) of the respective generations from which they have come? I suspect the reality is that the fit of such comparisons is a lot closer than we might like to admit. A few years back, it was my great pleasure to read Tom Brokaw's book titled "The Greatest Generation." I greatly admired what Brokaw had detailed and that I read of those men and women! As I consider our present circumstance and the characteristically shallow natures and the "it's all about me" perspectives of so many members of more recent generations, I am left wondering 'are we up to the challenge' of effectively confronting today's issues. Can we do it?


Very thought provoking! And I believe a significant portion of what may be a set of complex causes. While certainly no historian, I've read enough of American history to know that our country has never been short of scoundrels, some of whom have occupied high places and been the champions of partisan yellow journalism. This is not recent.

But being simple, my simplistic opinion is that collectively our nation has lost it's sense of decency, it's sense of shame. There is no Joseph Welch to ask the question; and if there were, no one to listen to him. How badly do we need to be asked, "Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

And where is the journalist who with simple honesty will look us in the eye, tell us the truth, and be heard -


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

People get the government they deserve. We need to do better to get better. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> People get the government they deserve. We need to do better to get better.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Agreed. And as much as I may try to not blame any one political party or school of thought, it does appear as though there is at least one that gets a pass in our culture and isn't really forced to argue its point or to have to defend itself.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

It seems to me that the schools are not teaching young students to become men and women, but that they need their hands held. And the schools belong to the party that is getting an unfair pass.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Indeed, young students are not being mentored in a way that results in their becoming (responsible) men and women in society, but I would not place the primary burden and responsibility for this failure on the schools, but rather on the shoulders of delinquent parents! It is what happens within the family home that we should first look at as the primary culprit in this present instance.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Indeed, young students are not being mentored in a way that results in their becoming (responsible) men and women in society, but I would not place the primary burden and responsibility for this failure on the schools, but rather on the shoulders of delinquent parents! It is what happens within the family home that we should first look at as the primary culprit in this present instance.


Some of my good lefty friends disagree with me, but decades of civic and charitable engagement have convinced me that the kind of parenting you (and I) regard as necessary is simply not achievable in a nation that has a 40% illegitimacy rate and 50% divorce rate. I would like to be wrong and take some comfort in the fact that I occasionally am.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

No doubt the parents and grandparents should be the major row model. Last Saturday was talking to a woman who says she all for democracy, but the Republicans have no rights and shouldn't exist (one party democracy). She is grandmother's age, nowadays. She thinks the death penalty was never part of democracy. A US citizen her whole life. Born in America. Went to school and college in the US. Thinks churches should never have existed, at least it sounded that way from her scorn of churches. She is an absolute progressive marching away from what America was, what made America great. Even the media is more this way and saying that some of America's past didn't exist. I'm seeing this more and more. From a humorous perspective I have less and increasing less history. Pretty soon I won't even exist. Why are the progressives in so much denial?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

As that old saw tells us, "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it!" Looking back, perhaps we will recall one Senator Joseph McCarthy...as much of a nutcase as any whom we have presently serving in Congress. Reading and watching today's news feeds, it seems to me that we have come full circle and that the nuts seem to be in charge of the nut house!


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