# FYI new Florsheim longwings



## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

Looks like a good price/quality ratio. And with the code NEXT20 they're $128 shipped to your door.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks for the code.


-Zach


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I remain skeptical.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Are they Chromexcel? Is that what the description means when it says chrome is rubbed into the leather?


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I just ordered a pair, so we'll see how they are...


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

What is with all the skepticism all of a sudden?

Florsheim always put out a very respectible gunboat wingtip. Sure, they moved manufacturing of the Kenmoor over to India several years ago, but it was always a very solid shoe.

To be able to get a non-brush-off, full leather wing tip for $128?? Seems like a no brainer. That is loafer money. If the quality is terrible, send them back.

By the way, I know the natural sole is very popular here, but I would edge dress it with black or dark brown.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

Orgetorix said:


> Are they Chromexcel? Is that what the description means when it says chrome is rubbed into the leather?


Chrome tanning is the use of chromium sulfate as the base tanning agent. Most cowhide is tanned using this method, because it's quick and produces a stretchy, easily-worked leather.

Chromexcel is a registered trademark of Horween. I believe it is their "proprietary" version of chrome tanning. I seriously doubt Florsheim is using Horween leather in this shoe. If they were, they would likely say so.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Until when is the sale or the code effective?


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## a pine tree (Jun 20, 2010)

Hmm... the other pictures on the site make the leather color look much less appealing than in the picture posted here.

Mannix, be sure to post some real pictures when you get them.


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

^I agree the pictures are confusing. I'd definitely get a pair if the quality was good. I'm pretty sure there's a Florsheim store here in DC. I may try and check them out in person.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

You get what you pay for (at best). always true, that's the way it works.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

a pine tree said:


> Mannix, be sure to post some real pictures when you get them.


I'll definitely post pictures when mine arrive. I bought the longwings in the medium brown color. I am hoping these will be of decent quality, because I cannot afford a pair of Alden longwings at the moment (college expenses come first).


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

CMDC said:


> ^I agree the pictures are confusing. I'd definitely get a pair if the quality was good. I'm pretty sure there's a Florsheim store here in DC. I may try and check them out in person.


There is a Florsheim store in Montgomery Mall in Bethesda. I may check them out over the weekend.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

There must be a Florsheim link I am unaware of. I tried it on the Florsheim site, the code is for 20% off Kenmoors equals $180. That's a long way from $128. Am I missing something here?

Edit: Nevermind, I see we are talking about different shoes.


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## G Charles Blue (Oct 18, 2009)

That is a very attractive shoe at a very attractive price!


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

For what it's worth, here's a link to a blog vouching for the quality of these shoes:



According to the blogger, these are the longwings to buy if you want decent quality and can't afford Alden or Allen Edmonds. The picture above looks nice. But, given their price, I would imagine they don't give Alden or Allen Edmonds much in the way of competition.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I've been after new longwings, and I love the natural. Hopefully I can get some stuff sold and put these in the closet!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Hmmm...another pair of Long Wings and at a great, great price? Tempting, very tempting but, LOL, the resultant medical bills just might offset any savings to be had here!


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

So the consensus would be that it's better to buy these new, or a pair of shell LWB's on ebay?


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

The leather looks interesting, but I'd have to see these in person. I remain skeptical.


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## a pine tree (Jun 20, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> So the consensus would be that it's better to buy these new, or a pair of shell LWB's on ebay?


The leather doesn't look so good in this picture, IMO:
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_q94mNatWthE/TNrlbQEWFiI/AAAAAAAAK18/AMOqYG4BuFo/s1600/Picture+3.png
I'd rather get an old pair of shell Florsheim lw from ebay. You can find NOS for that price.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

a pine tree said:


> The leather doesn't look so good in this picture, IMO:
> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_q94mNatWthE/TNrlbQEWFiI/AAAAAAAAK18/AMOqYG4BuFo/s1600/Picture+3.png
> I'd rather get an old pair of shell Florsheim lw from ebay. You can find NOS for that price.


 Can you really? I'd thought the unmarked would come in well under, but most anything marked would be closer to $150. I'll have to spend more time on the search, I've finally posted and sold some shoes at the other place, so have the money! Thanks.


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## a pine tree (Jun 20, 2010)

Unmarked shell - definitely cheaper
But you're right, labeled shell would probably sell for around $150ish. 

I'd still rather spend the $150 on some old Florsheim Imperials than on this new pair.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

a pine tree said:


> Unmarked shell - definitely cheaper
> But you're right, labeled shell would probably sell for around $150ish.
> 
> I'd still rather spend the $150 on some old Florsheim Imperials than on this new pair.


I'm trying to track down some on ebay. I do wish the old florsheim's had the natural welt, though. Thanks for the righting of the ship!


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## enginerd917 (Dec 26, 2009)

What is the story when it comes time for new soles ? Didn't see any mention of a Florsheim re-crafting service.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

enginerd917 said:


> What is the story when it comes time for new soles ? Didn't see any mention of a Florsheim re-crafting service.


B. Nelson, if you must.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I guess I'm in the minority here but I don't like what I see.

The picture that opens this thread is probably the most flattering I've seen of this shoe.
The leather looks cheap in others and the edge treatment seems gimmicky.

Looking forward to hearing reviews, but if I were hookem I'd go the ebay route.
Incidentally, marked shell in my size 11D seems to go for between $65-120 depending on the auction.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I have decided to go the ebay route (if anyone sees 10.5d shell, I'm on the lookout!). The thing I liked most was the natural welt, and I can del with not having it, as I agree that more than a couple pictures reveal some unflattering leather. Thanks.


Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I guess I'm in the minority here but I don't like what I see.
> 
> The picture that opens this thread is probably the most flattering I've seen of this shoe.
> The leather looks cheap in others and the edge treatment seems gimmicky.
> ...


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> I have decided to go the ebay route (if anyone sees 10.5d shell, I'm on the lookout!). The thing I liked most was the natural welt, and I can del with not having it, as I agree that more than a couple pictures reveal some unflattering leather. Thanks.


Hookem - I picked up some Florshiem Imperial longwings, unmarked shell, on ebay a couple of months ago for around $30-$40....in 10.5d. :icon_smile: Good luck!


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## a pine tree (Jun 20, 2010)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I guess I'm in the minority here but I don't like what I see.
> 
> The picture that opens this thread is probably the most flattering I've seen of this shoe.
> The leather looks cheap in others and the edge treatment seems gimmicky.
> ...


Bingo. +10000000

Best to stick with what works (ebay shell Imperials on the cheap!)


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

If Cards didn't exist, I, too, would be able to snag unmarked shell. Alas, we wear the same size...



MidWestTrad said:


> Hookem - I picked up some Florshiem Imperial longwings, unmarked shell, on ebay a couple of months ago for around $30-$40....in 10.5d. :icon_smile: Good luck!


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> If Cards didn't exist, I, too, would be able to snag unmarked shell. Alas, we wear the same size...


My shoe closet is closed for the foreseeable future - any unmarked shell on eBay are all yours.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I saw these on Madison yesterday. They're awful. Not worth the leather they're printed on.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

/\ That is a shame. The world could use an affordable gunboat wingtip, for those who do not want to buy used or spend several hundred bucks. I think the Florsheim Kenmoor can be had for about $180, which always used to be a very serviceable shoe.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I received a pair of these shoes today. I bought them in the "rust" color, which incidentally is very different in person than pictured. I am returning them because of that reason. Here are a few pictures for those who inquired:

https://img717.imageshack.us/i/pics001h.jpg/
https://img3.imageshack.us/i/pics004c.jpg/
https://img180.imageshack.us/i/pics002x.jpg/


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Those look pretty awful. I have the sads now.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

OK, I'm not being a smartguy, I'm not that smart. What is wrong with them, if one likes the color? What is bad about the way they are made or the materials they're made from?


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

I actually like the color, but the leather looks cheap, and the soles look awful (and cheap).


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

Pentheos said:


> I actually like the color, but the leather looks cheap, and the soles look awful (and cheap).


OK I agree with your assessment of the leather. Looking closely, the leather doesn't look like it's finished very well. That's too bad.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Come one now! Not bad for that price. We get what we pay for. The NOS ebay suggestion is good but it's not readily available. I have been scouring for half a year now and still don't see anything on my size.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

These remind me of my GTH longwings, a pair of brown Doc Martens. Given the appearance of the leather, I would wear these in similar situations, i.e., casual (jeans or Bills, no tie, BB OCBD, tweed or corduroy sport coat). Based on photos in this thread, they're certainly not appropriate with a suit or in a traditional office environment. I don't think that necessarily makes them awful shoes, and if they're available for $127, I don't think that's too bad, presuming the purchaser is the sort who won't go the ebay or exchange route and go with used. There are certainly more horrid things out there for way more money.


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## G Charles Blue (Oct 18, 2009)

How do they feel? I still like them, I was looking at the brown and the wine colors, though.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

They are quite comfortable. I am still pondering the wine colored ones...

I do agree that the leather is sub par, but I'm not expecting great things because they're not priced as such.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

FWIW, I mentioned these in a thread about the Kenmoor earlier this year. The pre-production samples I saw and tried on last spring were easily the best quality new, welted shoe I've seen in a long time. I haven't seen the production pieces yet (my pre-buy is still backed up to mid Dec.) but I'm excited to have them in the store. They fill an excellent price niche.

A few observations:

1.)They are part of the new "Limited" line from Florsheim, aimed at smaller, boutique type menswear stores. It's building off the success of the Duckie Brown shoes and you won't find them in big-box stores (the Florsheims are trying HARD to get the brand back to where it was). 
2.) The prices reflect the fact that very few men are paying more than $200 for dress shoes these days.
3.) The idea with "limited" is to offer modern takes on styles from the classic Florsheim lines (hence the interesting combos).
*4.) For those that don't like the quality of the leather, I don't know what to say. The leather for the longwing (can't comment on the rest) is from the Horween tannery (note: I didn't say it was shell, but it is from horween).* As I mentioned I've only fondled pre-run samples so perhaps the finished product fell short. Based on how briskly they are selling (florsheim.com ran out of 30 pairs in the first day) I doubt it.
5.) The penny loafer from the line is outstanding for the money. My own personal pair should arrive in a week or two. Easily the best value in a loafer I've seen.
6.) "Limited" shoes are not going to satisfy the truly trad, but they are a QUANTUM leap in right direction for Florsheim.
7.) The price vs. quality ratio on this particular shoe is off the charts in my book. Comparing them against other new, welted shoes, there's nothing I know of that is even close. They are phenomenal for the money. At $128 they are an absolute steal. Good grief, let's put this in perspective: you can't buy a decent pair of DRESPORTS for much less than $128!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Point made and very well said, Sir! :thumbs-up:


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Point made and very well said, Sir! :thumbs-up:


Here, Here!


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

Mr. Mac said:


> FWIW, I mentioned these in a thread about the Kenmoor earlier this year. The pre-production samples I saw and tried on last spring were easily the best quality new, welted shoe I've seen in a long time. I haven't seen the production pieces yet (my pre-buy is still backed up to mid Dec.) but I'm excited to have them in the store. They fill an excellent price niche.
> 
> A few observations:
> 
> ...


Just a quick clarification, you are talking about the non-Kenmoor shoes, correct?


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

HistoryDoc said:


> Just a quick clarification, you are talking about the non-Kenmoor shoes, correct?


That is correct. Only referring to the longwing from the Limited line. I believe the style is "Veblen" or something like that, but I don't have my order sheet in front of me.

The new longwing is made in the same factory and on the same lasts as the kenmoor, but uses leather from horween (which was the source for the leather - including shell - for the duckie brown shoes).


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

Mr. Mac - any pics of the new penny loafers online?


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

I guess whatever problem other people see with the shoe... I just don't see it. They look good to me. I looked at the leather on my Alden calf, AE, and old Florsheims and I didn't see much difference. I like the shoes. I think they look good. If I didn't already own LWB from AE, Alden, and Florsheim I would jump on these.


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## Thewaxmania (Feb 20, 2008)

I have to say this. From purely a supply standpoint, I think these shoes are fantastic. When it boils down, there really aren't very many options for someone who is looking for a pair of Longwings (such as myself). As far as I know, this is how it breaks down.

*Option 1: Second-Hand Shoes*
-EBay or thrift-shop used shoe supply is limited and "hit-or-miss" and often shoes need repair, recrafting, or just aren't of proper size/quality/color to suit.
-NOS Vintage shoes from EBay and other outlets are even more limited and finding a pair becomes more of a hobby than anything else.

*Option 2: New Shoes*
-_Alden 975s_ retail for around $600 and you can find variants at lower prices from BB and JCrew on sale etc., but they're still $600 shoes and for most people, that's just not an option. I preach tirelessly to friends about the value of good clothing and shoes, but at the end of the day, I just cannot afford to pay $600 for a pair of shoes, no matter how nice they are. And they are quite nice.

_Allen Edmonds MacNeils_ retail for $325 ($525 in cordovan) and are of considerable quality and availability. I've never been terribly fond of the last on that particular shoe and I can't justify spend $325 on a shoe I'm not crazy about. I also find them a bit stodgy.

_Florshiem Kenmoors_
-_Online/In a Shop_ - The Kenmoors are nice shoes for the money, they're alright. They aren't great looking and have beautiful leather that rivals that of Alden or Allen Edmonds, and they're made in India, but they're only $225 and you have to appreciate that. They're still $225 for shoes though and there are plenty of people who can't afford that, since they aren't exactly shoes you can wear everyday with every outfit. And if you aren't in love with them, that's $225 you could spend elsewhere and get more enjoyment out of the purchase.

-_Outlet Shop_ - I thought of buying a pair or two at the outlet when I saw them on special. The problem was that even though I liked them, they were still expensive. I say expensive because they weren't $150 for $225 shoes. They were $150 for a pair of $225 shoes that had visual defects, mis-stitching, or had some other defect. They uppers weren't great-looking and the only ones I could pull the trigger on were the tan pebble grains. I ended up waiting.

-_Bostonian_ used to make a longwign with double soles in some fresh colors called the Brogue and the plain-toe was called the Blucher. They no longer make them and I don't know if they ever will again. Seemed like a short run, but they had a Color 8 variant that had some clean antiquing and looked pretty good. If I remember correctly they were in the $150 range.

-_Executive Imperials/ Leather Classics _- The other options fall under two brands Executive Imperials and Leather Classics and they cost around $105 and $85 respectively. The Leather Classics are plain-toe and the Exec. Imp. Are gunboats. I've never seen them up close, but you don't really have to imagine what $100 shoes like these look and feel like. I don't think anyone who buys them is expecting to shoot the moon and that's how it goes. $100 shoes are $100 shoes. But those are the options.

So you've got price points of $600 and $325 at the top, $225 in the middle, and $100 and $85 at the bottom. The shoes at the top are great, the shoes at the bottom are not so great and the shoes in the middle are just mediocre. I think these new Florsheim's are going to do just fine. They look pretty good for $160 shoes and they're styled well. I'm 27 and I sometimes dress like I'm 67 because that's what is available and affordable. There are plenty of "regular folks" who want to dress well but don't because there aren't options available in their budget, or they don't want to make thrifting and bargain hunting a second job; and rightly so.

I'm glad Florsheim is making an effort to take back the brand. That's and encouraging sign in America today. There are encouraging signs all over the place if you look hard enough. I like to look at items like this not as Florsheim trying to pass off second-rate shoes to well healed consumers who know better than to trade in their Alden's for a pair of Florsheims, but rather, they are trying to get men who otherwise couldn't afford those shoes in a pair of good quality shoes that are stylish and modern and gets them excited about dressing. If that works, we're on our way to a better dressed country. We've raised the bar so much that it is well out of reach of a lot of men. We can't forget about those men.


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

Just curious, what's everyone's fascination with longwings vs. shortwings. Once they are on the feet and covered with a trouser leg it's hard for anyone to tell the difference.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

mhj said:


> Just curious, what's everyone's fascination with longwings vs. shortwings. Once they are on the feet and covered with a trouser leg it's hard for anyone to tell the difference.


 You clearly have too much break in your pants


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## Thewaxmania (Feb 20, 2008)

mhj said:


> Just curious, what's everyone's fascination with longwings vs. shortwings. Once they are on the feet and covered with a trouser leg it's hard for anyone to tell the difference.


I respectfully disagree. Shortwings are typically balmorals and longwings are typically bluchers. Longwings gunboats have double-leather soles and last for seemingly forever. The styles are different as well. There's a TRAD history with longwings that just don't exist with shorts.

About the pant-leg covering thing. My trousers are cut such that there is very little break at all in my trousers. The more casual the suit, the less break. I dress based on weather most days and longwings go great with a heavy tweed suit or heavy textured wool three-piece suit and with those the bottoms of my trousers just barely touch the tops of my shoes. In that sense, it matters a great deal what shoes one wears, if one cares at all about one's shoes.

Additionally, I don't stand all day long. So whether they are covered by my trousers is of less consequence in that I'm often sitting down, walking, or leaning on something and in all of those instances my shoes are quite visible. Plus, I just like em. I wear bluchers with a suit and I'm not going to apologize for it!

Take care gents.
BP


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
I am assuming the term "Short Wing" refers to a wing tip, vs a long wing design. Is this a correct assumption?


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## Thewaxmania (Feb 20, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> I am assuming the term "Short Wing" refers to a wing tip, vs a long wing design. Is this a correct assumption?


That is my assumption. This is actually the first time I've heard them referred to as a "shortwings". I assume mhj meant wingtips.


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

Thewaxmania said:


> That is my assumption. This is actually the first time I've heard them referred to as a "shortwings". I assume mhj meant wingtips.


Yes, mhj does mean wingtips.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Thanks for the clarification!


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## Thewaxmania (Feb 20, 2008)

Thewaxmania said:


> I have to say this. From purely a supply standpoint, I think these shoes are fantastic. When it boils down, there really aren't very many options for someone who is looking for a pair of Longwings (such as myself). As far as I know, this is how it breaks down.
> 
> So you've got price points of $600 and $325 at the top, $225 in the middle, and $100 and $85 at the bottom. The shoes at the top are great, the shoes at the bottom are not so great and the shoes in the middle are just mediocre. I think these new Florsheim's are going to do just fine. They look pretty good for $160 shoes and they're styled well. I'm 27 and I sometimes dress like I'm 67 because that's what is available and affordable. There are plenty of "regular folks" who want to dress well but don't because there aren't options available in their budget, or they don't want to make thrifting and bargain hunting a second job; and rightly so.
> 
> I'm glad Florsheim is making an effort to take back the brand. That's and encouraging sign in America today. There are encouraging signs all over the place if you look hard enough. I like to look at items like this not as Florsheim trying to pass off second-rate shoes to well healed consumers who know better than to trade in their Alden's for a pair of Florsheims, but rather, they are trying to get men who otherwise couldn't afford those shoes in a pair of good quality shoes that are stylish and modern and gets them excited about dressing. If that works, we're on our way to a better dressed country. We've raised the bar so much that it is well out of reach of a lot of men. We can't forget about those men.


For what it's worth, I've since purchased two pairs of new Indian-made Kenmoors from an outlet store. I couldn't pass up the sale they were having, two pairs for $230; its like getting one pair free. They were older shoes since the I received the old style boxes and not the new "retro" grey and silver boxes, which are pretty neat looking. I don't care if "retro" is lame, I like the old style and welcome any opportunity to feel like I lived in the 40s.

I originally intended to buy the Cognac pebble-grain and the black pebble-grain, but when I tried on the black PG shoes and walked around the store, I wasn't sure I actually liked PG in black, so I went with a smooth black instead. I'm wearing them right now actually. The first time out of the house since I bought them Monday. I treated them with leather conditioner 3 times and polished them with a creme polish once before wearing. I'm slowly breaking them in and since I wore overshoes today in the snow, I'm sliding around the carpet in my office because I haven't scuffed the soles yet.

I know this thread was talking about the Veblen, but I want to just say how nice these Kenmoors are. I've seen MacNeils and to tell you the truth, I'm not sure I can see a quality differential. I do like their $115/pair price tag and they're incredibly comfortable for a double-soled wingtip. I'm an 8D and I don't weigh much so breaking in wingtips can be a bit of a process, but these are coming in nicely. No pain, no pressure, just lovely lovely comfort. Would I have paid $225 for them? No. Probably not. But I didn't so it doesn't matter.

Happy New Year gents!


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

I have to admit that my eyes have been opened, so much so that I went out and bought a pair of Coqnac Kenmoors. I guess I had never paid that much attention to the detail before. For the first week it felt like I was walking around with concrete blocks on my feet. After breaking them in they're really comfortable and I walk around 2-3 miles a day in my job.

Now I'm trying to sell a pair of Burgundy Florsheim Carletons wingtips 11EEE that I just bought and were too tight and not longwings. I wore them outside a few times and can't return them.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

I saw the Florsheim Veblens in the wild tonight. The Florsheim store in Montgomery Mall in Bethesda, MD has them on display. They had the rust and the brown smooth. It was an interesting comparison because I had just been at Nordstrom, eyeing up some MacNeils. 

Perhaps my tastes are a little more pedestrian than some on here, but I thought these shoes were very nice, and in the same league as the MacNeals. They are NOT EQUALS. The MacNeals are a better shoe; you can tell in the stitching and leather especially. But, the Veblens are a solid quality shoe, and they are not the $325 that the MacNeals are. 

If you can deal with the colors that are a bit different than standard (I guess they didn't want to cut into sales of the Kenmoors), you can own two Veblens for the price of one MacNeals. I know that doesn't matter to some folks, but for someone like me who can't sink $325 into one pair of shoes, these seem like a good deal.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

frosejr said:


> Perhaps my tastes are a little more pedestrian than some on here, but I thought these shoes were very nice, and in the same league as the MacNeals. They are NOT EQUALS. The MacNeals are a better shoe; you can tell in the stitching and leather especially. But, the Veblens are a solid quality shoe, and they are not the $325 that the MacNeals are. I know that doesn't matter to some folks, but for someone like me who can't sink $325 into one pair of shoes, these seem like a good deal.


^^^^
BINGO!


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

frosejr said:


> I saw the Florsheim Veblens in the wild tonight. The Florsheim store in Montgomery Mall in Bethesda, MD has them on display. They had the rust and the brown smooth. It was an interesting comparison because I had just been at Nordstrom, eyeing up some MacNeils.
> 
> Perhaps my tastes are a little more pedestrian than some on here, but I thought these shoes were very nice, and in the same league as the MacNeals. They are NOT EQUALS. The MacNeals are a better shoe; you can tell in the stitching and leather especially. But, the Veblens are a solid quality shoe, and they are not the $325 that the MacNeals are.
> 
> If you can deal with the colors that are a bit different than standard (I guess they didn't want to cut into sales of the Kenmoors), you can own two Veblens for the price of one MacNeals. I know that doesn't matter to some folks, but for someone like me who can't sink $325 into one pair of shoes, these seem like a good deal.


I believe the counter-argument is the Mcneils or even old shell florsheims will last so much longer that it's worth the money, in the end. I'm not necessarily making that argument, though I would if the options were 2 pairs of veblens or 1 pair of Mcneils (note: I've not seen the veblens in person and have still been considering them).


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

hookem12387 said:


> I believe the counter-argument is the Mcneils or even old shell florsheims will last so much longer that it's worth the money, in the end. I'm not necessarily making that argument, though I would if the options were 2 pairs of veblens or 1 pair of Mcneils (note: I've not seen the veblens in person and have still been considering them).
> 
> 
> > BINGO! Consider, also, that AE offers re-crafting for less than a pair of Florsheims. So, by spending an extra $100 or so, you are buying a pair of shoes that could well last the better part of two decades, if properly cared for. Which isn't to say that $325 isn't beyond the reach of some folks--certainly, it is beyond my reach, but then again, my shoes are mostly used. The disciplined shopper, I think, would spend the extra money, perhaps forgoing a second pair of shoes to get one pair of better quality.


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## Thewaxmania (Feb 20, 2008)

32rollandrock said:


> hookem12387 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the counter-argument is the Mcneils or even old shell florsheims will last so much longer that it's worth the money, in the end. I'm not necessarily making that argument, though I would if the options were 2 pairs of veblens or 1 pair of Mcneils (note: I've not seen the veblens in person and have still been considering them).
> ...


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## De-Boj (Jul 5, 2009)

I have had the Veblens in Wine, and I am very happy with them. I like the way they look with the natural sole. I think they are a fun take on a classic look for a easy to reach price. I have wanted a pair of burgundy longwings for a long time, but couldn't justify the price. They are breaking in well, and I like them.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

32rollandrock said:


> hookem12387 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe the counter-argument is the Mcneils or even old shell florsheims will last so much longer that it's worth the money, in the end. I'm not necessarily making that argument, though I would if the options were 2 pairs of veblens or 1 pair of Mcneils (note: I've not seen the veblens in person and have still been considering them).
> ...


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## Thewaxmania (Feb 20, 2008)

Mr. Mac said:


> As I see it, these two shoes offer options for different men. For some men the Veblen will stretch their wallet to the limit - but reward them with a very nice shoe for the money. For others, the Macneil will stretch their wallet with a similar reward. What's nice is that men at different ends of the price-spectrum have quality, welted shoe options.


Exactly. And for the first time in a while there is a real choice within various price-ranges and styles. That makes me happiest of all.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

I do not believe that a pair of dress shoes will last 10 to 20 years, assuming one actually wears them on a regular basis and further than 50' of walking during the day. My oldest pair of Cheaney brogues are about 6 years old and have seen better days - quality wise they are equivalent to Alden - and yes, I have taken excellent care of them. The only way these would last 10 to 20 years would be if (1) I wore them only a couple times a month or (2) if the definition of "lasting" is defined as "have not yet disintegrated into dust".

Buy the best shoes you can afford and stop justifying purchases based on unproven speculations about longevity, etc.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Doctor Damage said:


> I do not believe that a pair of dress shoes will last 10 to 20 years, assuming one actually wears them on a regular basis and further than 50' of walking during the day. My oldest pair of Cheaney brogues are about 6 years old and have seen better days - quality wise they are equivalent to Alden - and yes, I have taken excellent care of them. The only way these would last 10 to 20 years would be if (1) I wore them only a couple times a month or (2) if the definition of "lasting" is defined as "have not yet disintegrated into dust".
> 
> Buy the best shoes you can afford and stop justifying purchases based on unproven speculations about longevity, etc.


How often do you wear the Cheaneys? I have enough shoes, and try to rotate through them consistently enough, that I expect no single pair gets worn more than once every 10-14 days or so.


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## tsweetland (Oct 2, 2006)

I can't find a pair of Veblens in Brown 10D anywhere. Any suggestions?


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

Not being involved in economics or marketing, I was not familiar with the term "Veblen good." I cam across the term last night when reading a book. I assume it's no mistake that Florsheim named this new long wing "Veblen"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

I wonder if the name is not a jab at Alden/AE pricing and perceived value?


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## ostpl (Jan 8, 2010)

I just got back from the Florsheim store. These are nice, but in no way made to be worn with a suit. The leather is very soft and the shoe has a definite casual feel. OK for business casual. These shouse have more in common with my Doc Marten longwings than they do with the Kenmoors.


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## EarthQuaker (Feb 6, 2011)

I got my rust coloured Veblens in the mail yesterday. Wore 'em all day today, including walking about two miles to and from church. Very comfy on my 8EEE feet. The leather improves with some wearing. They are a great shoe for a hospital chaplain because I walk almost five miles a day on concrete floors in the hospital, and because they are a professional look shoe, but also the most proletarian of dress shoes with their working class broguing, and the thick, on0your0feet soles.
I have a few questions for the experts.
1) I need some black shoes, and am thinking that the black Veblens might be good. Love the Horween leather. Why would I pay more for the Kenwoods?
2) How do you polish/treat rust coloured leather, and how to treat the natural sole edges? I'm at a loss...
3) Where would I get a really vintage (pre WWII) style black heavy wool suit?
Thanks to the cognecenti!


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

tsweetland said:


> I can't find a pair of Veblens in Brown 10D anywhere. Any suggestions?


Go to the Florsheim website: www.florsheim.com and if they don't have what you want call their toll-free number for ordering and questions, which is listed under the "contact us" tab. I just ordered a pair today and had to settle for black because it was the only color they had in my size. The nice lady apologized for the lack of selection and then told me that the Veblens have been going out the door nonstop since they were introduced. Florsheim will restock them in every size in a couple of months when they get some new shipments in.

I asked her what was the difference between the Veblens and the Kenmoors. She said that they are both made on the same last with a double sole, but since the Kenmoors are in the Imperial line and the Veblens are in the Limited line, the leather is much better in the Kenmoors which makes the Kenmoors a shoe that you would keep the rest of your life, while the Veblens are more of a shoe to be discarded after a while. She added that although the Veblens and the Kenmoors are made in India, they are finished here in the US, that is the process of coloring and polishing the finished shoes.

HURRY, QUICK, because today is the last day for 20% off your entire order, a sale that happens only twice a year!!!!


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

EarthQuaker said:


> I got my rust coloured Veblens in the mail yesterday. Wore 'em all day today, including walking about two miles to and from church. Very comfy on my 8EEE feet. The leather improves with some wearing. They are a great shoe for a hospital chaplain because I walk almost five miles a day on concrete floors in the hospital, and because they are a professional look shoe, but also the most proletarian of dress shoes with their working class broguing, and the thick, on0your0feet soles.
> I have a few questions for the experts.
> 1) I need some black shoes, and am thinking that the black Veblens might be good. Love the Horween leather. Why would I pay more for the Kenwoods?
> 2) How do you polish/treat rust coloured leather, and how to treat the natural sole edges? I'm at a loss...
> ...


answers:
question 1--See my post above.
question 2--Florsheim has always recommended Kiwi polishes (why they don't recommend their own I'll never know), but that might be a good question to ask the nice lady at Florsheim on the other end of the toll-free number.
question 3--Check out used/vintage clothing stores in NYC.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

New inventory and new colors of Veblens! Now available in bone and grey.


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

frosejr said:


> New inventory and new colors of Veblens! Now available in bone and grey.


And the code NEXT20 still works, I got the bone for $128 delivered.


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