# Racism From Reverend Wright



## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Italians = Garlic Noses? Not much of a slur, but clearly racist. Everybody was looking for one we could all agree on, so here it is.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

iammatt said:


> Italians = Garlic Noses? Not much of a slur, but clearly racist. Everybody was looking for one we could all agree on, so here it is.


It seems to me that those who cry racism the loudest (e.g. Reverends Wright, Jackson, Sharpton, and Minister Farrakhan) are, in fact, some of the biggest racists around today. If they're smart...as all of these gentlemen obviously are...they can manipulate and intimidate at will, and turn that racism into profit and very comfortable lifestyles.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

TMMKC said:


> It seems to me that those who cry racism the loudest (e.g. Reverends Wright, Jackson, Sharpton, and Minister Farrakhan) are, in fact, some of the biggest racists around today. If they're smart...as all of these gentlemen obviously are...they can manipulate and intimidate at will, and turn that racism into profit and very comfortable lifestyles.


I wouldn't call them racist, they are reactionaries.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

jpeirpont said:


> I wouldn't call them racist, they are reactionaries.


Well, Jackson and Farrakhan have clearly said very racist things about Jews, and now Wright, whom I was not willing to call a racist, only a race baiter, in the other thread has dropped the race bomb on Eye-talians. They are what they are.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

jpeirpont said:


> I wouldn't call them racist, they are reactionaries.


If you mean that they're reactionaries because they're very wily opportunists, then I agree. If not, I don't see how people like Jackson can't be branded as racists (remember the "Hymietown" comments?).


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

TMMKC said:


> If you mean that they're reactionaries because they're very wily opportunists, then I agree. If not, I don't see how people like Jackson can't be branded as racists (remember the "Hymietown" comments?).


Saying one racist thing doesn't make you racist. You might have said something in your life that could be called racist, as have I, doesn't mean we are racist.
Jesse did not start out an opportunist and his position is a reaction to racism from the U.S.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

iammatt said:


> Well, Jackson and Farrakhan have clearly said very racist things about Jews, and now Wright, whom I was not willing to call a racist, only a race baiter, in the other thread has dropped the race bomb on Eye-talians. They are what they are.


Farrakhan and Jesse are quite different. Plus Jesse brings attention to many thing in which aren't Black, the last time he was in CT it was for largely white teaching assistants at Yale. Jesse made one racist comment , doesn't make him a racist.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

POPCORN!!! GEEEEEECHER POPCORN!!!



HOT BUTTERED POPCORN!!! GET IT WHILE IT'S HOT!!!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> I wouldn't call them racist, they are reactionaries.


No jpeirpont, they are not reactionaries, they are racists. It is rather refreshing to recognize that one's prejudices can cut both ways!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> they are not reactionaries, they are racists. It is rather refreshing to recognize that one's prejudices can cut both ways!


I have to agree with this.

I would not vote for Obama simply because his politics are too liberal for me; however, having said that, I found myself admiring and respecting him personally in that he seems to represent a new breed of Black political leader in that he has risen to his current position without basing 90 percent of what he says and does on race, unlike folks like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. I'm not necessarily dissing Jackson and Sharpton because they began their careers in a different era and perhaps at that time did what was not only necessary, but also right. I would like to think that we as a society are largely past that now.

To take this a step further, I am convinced that this issue of taking race out of our thinking was as much, or moreso, advanced by guys like Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods as anybody. These superstars transcended race and became role models to millions, both Black and White. White kids wanted to "Be like Mike" every bit as much as Black kids did. I think I first became aware of this at a Tennessee Titans football game a few years ago when I saw some Black kids wearing Frank Wycheck jerseys when they could have just as easily been wearing an Eddie George or Steve McNair jersey like many of the White kids were.

I guess this is why I was so disappointed in the Rev. Wright issue. I desperately want to think that Obama doesn't think like that, and deep down inside I don't think he does. Like I said, he won't get my vote, but not because he is Black. Isn't that how it should be?

Cruiser


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I agree with you, Cruiser. I won't vote for O'Bama because I don't like his policies. 

I do think that people like Wright get too much of a free pass from a lot of the media, when someone white doing the same thing would be pilloried.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> I guess this is why I was so disappointed in the Rev. Wright issue. I desperately want to think that Obama doesn't think like that, and deep down inside I don't think he does. Like I said, he won't get my vote, but not because he is Black. Isn't that how it should be?
> 
> Cruiser


To me that's the problem. Clearly those of us that don't support Obama's policies aren't going have our vote affected by this incident. I wasn't going to vote for him either.

However, the vast majority of those that do like Obama's politics have a long history of thinking that deep down a white person that had an affiliation even close to Obama-Wright does think like that.

If a person was truly neutral about racial issues I believe the affiliation with Wright would make it impossible for someone to "think" Obama isn't like that; although they may have the "audactity to hope" he isn't like that. 

I personally can't stand Obama (the more I see him unscripted I think he's more of a light weight that Bush #43 - he's not brilliant, he's not even coherent off-script), and even I hope he isn't like that. However, there is no rational, logical basis to think he isn't. If someone is immune from any charge of racism until they are literally caught in a Klan hood it's a very convenient time in our history to reveal the new standard.

We've spent the last 45 years being told liberals can read people's minds and just tell what they really believe about race and distinguish a real racist from someone who misspoke or made a simple error in judgement. In every case I can remember (with the exception of Sen. Byrd who is certainly a racist) their first instinct is to shriek with revolt, tag someone a racist, and demand their resignation. I have yet to hear anyone even comtemplate that course of action in the media. The media seems unwilling to confront the real racist they are presented with and then they jump at the first chance to lynch a person with no record that has a one-time error. Yes, I said lynch. Remember, Kelly Tilghman and the Tiger Woods incident? I actually know Kelly. She's no racist and Tiger even told people that. Yet people were acting like she was the female representative of the Klan.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

How comforting the thought is: I get beat up by some angry young blackman because I'm white, and as the gurney makes that jolt into the ambulance and the morphine takes effect I can smile weakly and mumble " He isn't racist, only reacti......."


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> Farrakhan and Jesse are quite different. Plus Jesse brings attention to many thing in which aren't Black, the last time he was in CT it was for largely white teaching assistants at Yale. Jesse made one racist comment , doesn't make him a racist.


You don't think the following quote is racist?

"There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."

Jesse Jackson, as quoted in US News, 3/10/96


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

rkipperman said:


> You don't think the following quote is racist?
> 
> "There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
> 
> Jesse Jackson, as quoted in US News, 3/10/96


I do not respond to sliced quotes.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> No jpeirpont, they are not reactionaries, they are racists. It is rather refreshing to recognize that one's prejudices can cut both ways!


No, they are simply reacting to a racist society. No two ways about it.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> No, they are simply reacting to a racist society. No two ways about it.


"Racist society"? Please explain then how this society might well elect Obama as POTUS. You are so incapable of discernment. The existance of racism, because it does exist and it exists in *gasp*, blacks too, does not mean the entire society is "racist". Oh wait..they are all just reactionaries, right?


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> I do not respond to sliced quotes.


Ok, here's the full quote:
*
"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery - then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved." *

You don't think that is a racist statement?


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

jpeirpont said:


> No, they are simply reacting to a racist society. No two ways about it.


Wow. That is one damned handy excuse. You can write off practically anything you chose.

And some people will actually buy it.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Can us white guys react to a racist society too?


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

rkipperman said:


> Ok, here's the full quote:
> *
> "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery - then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved." *
> 
> You don't think that is a racist statement?


I'd need the whole article, I do not know what this was in reference to.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

ksinc said:


> Can us white guys react to a racist society too?


No. For the obvious reasons.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

jpeirpont said:


> I'd need the whole article, I do not know what this was in reference to.


https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE7DA1330F931A25751C1A965958260

This first was written December 12, 1993 in New York Times by Columnist Bob Herbert.

It was later referred to in 1996 by US News.

FWIW, this is Bob Herbert https://www.nytimes.com/ref/opinion/HERBERT-BIO.html

Is there anything else you require before making a judgement about a statement that stands alone?

If further context is really needed, IIRC the weather that day was seasonally warm in December for Chicago and there were clear blue skies.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

ksinc said:


> https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE7DA1330F931A25751C1A965958260
> 
> This first was written December 12, 1993 in New York Times by Columnist Bob Herbert.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Hey I'm sure many older Blacks share his sentiment along with many whites and to my shame they are all right to have this kneejerk reaction. No he did say Chicago and the article was clearly speaking of ghetto Blacks. If one felt that way walking by a group of Blacks in the suburbs then I think the comments could be taken differently.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

jpeirpont said:


> Thanks. Hey I'm sure many older Blacks share his sentiment along with many whites and to my shame they are all right to have this kneejerk reaction. No he did say Chicago and the article was clearly speaking of ghetto Blacks. If one felt that way walking by a group of Blacks in the suburbs then I think the comments could be taken differently.


I apologize. As _a typical white person_ I was unaware of the distinctive characteristics of "getto Blacks" contrasted with "a group of Blacks in the suburbs" and the sentiments shared about these groups by "older Blacks."

I think this clearly demonstrates the need for people like Jesse Jackson and yourself to continue to educate the rest of us on these distinctions so we too will know how to take these comments correctly and not make kneejerk reactions.

Afterall, context is what is important.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

ksinc said:


> Is there anything else you require before making a judgement about a statement that stands alone?
> 
> If further context is really needed, IIRC the weather that day was seasonally warm in December for Chicago and there were clear blue skies.


:aportnoy:


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

ksinc said:


> https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE7DA1330F931A25751C1A965958260
> 
> This first was written December 12, 1993 in New York Times by Columnist Bob Herbert.
> 
> ...


With you good folks here on AAC context is always needed unfortunatly you cannot simply trust ya'll motives.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> No he did say Chicago and the article was clearly speaking of ghetto Blacks.


So are you saying that if such comments are made by anyone with respect to "ghetto blacks" (I have no idea what that means, but play along with me here) living in Chicago it is not racist?:icon_scratch:


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

ksinc said:


> I apologize. As _a typical white person_ I was unaware of the distinctive characteristics of "getto Blacks" contrasted with "a group of Blacks in the suburbs" and the sentiments shared about these groups by "older Blacks."
> 
> I think this clearly demonstrates the need for people like Jesse Jackson and yourself to continue to educate the rest of us on these distinctions so we too will know how to take these comments correctly and not make kneejerk reactions.
> 
> Afterall, context is what is important.


See, you live, you read, you learn.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

rkipperman said:


> So are you saying that if such comments are made by anyone with respect to "ghetto blacks" (I have no idea what that means, but play along with me here) living in Chicago it is not racist?:icon_scratch:


Unfortunately, no the comments wouldn't be even if the person was white. If I as a Black person was walking down a dirt road in an all white town in rural Georgia and felt a vehicle pull up slowly next to me, I'd be happy to see that they were Black folks instead of white folks to be honest. I can not condemn what I understand even if I do not agree.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

jpeirpont said:


> Reason: Waiting for someone to say my capitalization of Blacks proves some sort of latent racism.


Nah, we don't think you are a racist. We fully 'get it' you capitalized Blacks, but didn't capitalize whites because you were referring to 'ghetto whites' and a not a 'group of Whites in the suburbs.' Right?


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

ksinc said:


> Nah, we don't think you are a racist. We fully 'get it' you capitalized Blacks, but didn't capitalize whites because you were referring to 'ghetto whites' and a not a 'group of Whites in the suburbs.' Right?


Damn K, you have a line to my soul.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

*Guess who?*

Here is the quote attributed to _________ by John Pekkanen in Life mag 11/21/69 p.68: "_____ talks about himself at these meetings. Once he told of his days as a waiter at the Jack Tar Hotel in his home town of Greenville, S.C. Just before leaving the kitchen he would spit into the food of white patrons he hated and then smilingly serve it to them. He did this, he said, 'because it gave me psychological gratification.' "


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Wow, amazing how someone can be so ready to rationalize prejudice and racsim for one group but be some daming of it to other groups. I blame it on MTV Rock the Vote and public education. :icon_smile_big:


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Wow, amazing how someone can be so ready to rationalize prejudice and racsim for one group but be some daming of it to other groups. I blame it on MTV Rock the Vote and public education. :icon_smile_big:


Does this mean I have finally achieved victim status?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

ksinc said:


> Does this mean I have finally achieved victim status?


Sorry buddy, you are white, and not even ghetto white or trailer park white. I might have let you slide if you were.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Sorry buddy, you are white, and not even ghetto white or trailer park white. I might have let you slide if you were.


This [email protected] govt will never give me anything now!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Sorry buddy, you are white, and not even ghetto white or trailer park white. I might have let you slide if you were.


I'm white (or is that White) and in 1971 I lived in a trailer park. Heck, in 1949 and 1950 I lived in public housing. This should officially make me a victim and provide an excuse for my dislike of opera pumps and my affection for black pants. I feel much better now. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I'm sound asleep in my barracks when lifelong friend Jo Jo walks in from a long patrol. He is so wired from the flight he couldn't sleep and suggested we, we including our new roommate Frank from Arizona( who bore an uncanny resemblance to Frank Luke the AZ balloon buster) call a cab and go downtown. frank and I each threww a shoe at Jo Jo. 2 minutes later we sat up, unable to fall back to sleep and got dressed. We got our cab and drove to THE BREAKERS, a Kodiak bar and restuarant that was one part Jack London and one part Jack Kerouak. Im sitting there contemplating how the butter in my Hot Buttered Rum looked like a Lava Lamp and both a microcosm of the formation of the universe and wondering when my steak and eggs would arrive. I heard this deep baritone worthy of an Opera singer utter two very perfunctory words in the direcction of Frank. I looked up in time to see a 6' 9" transvestite who looked vaguely like the captain of a crabber I had towed in a month previous pass in a shoulderless red evening dress. Frank mumbled all he did was stare in shock and laugh a little as this lithuanian skipper suggest we cut anchor and make a run for it. Well, Dorothy of OZ came about and started walking angrily toward us with a finnish Puukko knife.I shouted "You want a piece of me sweetheart?" as I tossed my drink on the floor and she slipped on the warm butter. Jo Jo, himself a pretty big guy at 6'6" grabbed the bowl of salt with the small spoon it it and threw it in her eyes and simultaneously pushed us out into the winter twilight, a cab and the safety of the gate checkpoint. Jo Jo and I were able to continue our misadventures two years later in the Bay Area. We went into some of the toughest parts of Oakland and Sf's Tenderloin. We encountered pimps, homicidal leather gays, American nazi party members in uniform and uncounted drunk and disorderly enlisted personel. Anytime we faced a crowd, I'd ask Jo Jo " See any transvestites in red?" Jo Jo would respond, nope, just a bunch of nazis or N***** pimps or Navy Squids.We never worried about anybody pulling up alongside us, knowing the Transvestite vanished with her crabber in a Bering Sea storm 6 months after our encounter.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> Wow, amazing how someone can be so ready to rationalize prejudice and racsim for one group but be some daming of it to other groups. I blame it on MTV Rock the Vote and public education. :icon_smile_big:


I do not recall anyone justifying a racist statement. Point it out please. I did not say Jackson etc, should be able to say racist statements, I said what they do is a reaction from growing up in a very racist society. You can minimize it by calling them "victims" or whatever, but it doesn't change the facts that if the U.S was not overtly racist for most of its history then we'd not have Jesse or Sharpton or Farakahn. But I suppose pointing out facts somehow makes one a "victim" or a promoter of victimhood.


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*McCain says '****'*




Wayfarer said:


> "Racist society"? Please explain then how this society might well elect Obama as POTUS.


Most people believe that voting third party is wasting their vote.
I hate cockroaches, pigeons, and rats, but favor them all for the presidency over McCain.

Anyway, I love that Wright (and to an extent Obama) are open about race. Pretending we're all the same and having no sense of humour about our differences is the most racially offensive thing I can imagine.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> I do not recall anyone justifying a racist statement. Point it out please. I did not say Jackson etc, should be able to say racist statements, I said what they do is a reaction from growing up in a very racist society. You can minimize it by calling them "victims" or whatever, but it doesn't change the facts that if the U.S was not overtly racist for most of its history then we'd not have Jesse or Sharpton or Farakahn. But I suppose pointing out facts somehow makes one a "victim" or a promoter of victimhood.


No idea where all this "victim" talk came from. I am finding your arguments to be more and more dishonest.

You clearly *rationalized*, the word I used above (not *justifying* as you used), things said by the likes of Jackson, et al.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> Most people believe that voting third party is wasting their vote.
> I hate cockroaches, pigeons, and rats, but favor them all for the presidency over McCain.
> 
> Anyway, I love that Wright (and to an extent Obama) are open about race. Pretending we're all the same and having no sense of humour about our differences is the most racially offensive thing I can imagine.


The only flaw to your argument is that all you McCain haters were given a choice of many candidates, incluing several white and male, one hispanic and male, and one white and female. Obama, if he becomes the candidate, was not put their by chance or false dichotomy, but by a free and open vote with many candidates to chose from. You created a totally specious dichotomy.

I do not know anyone here saying we are all the same. That is silly liberal PC tripe IMO. Merely because we are different does not mean we have to be racially offensive. IMO, it's the differences that add spice to life.

Oh yes, and McCain did say that word. I find it offensive and point out to people his use of the word. I do not find it forgiveable because he was incarcerated and tortured. He might have changed since his last use of the word, I do believe he adopted a child from that region. However, I always remember he used that slur.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Let me understand the situation at it's most basic level. This guy bears the title of Reverand? So, I'm this 30 something, white jewish guy who isn't married and I show up for services and walk past all the black matrons in their hats and gloves, smile at the choir, sit right in front near the podium and start picking at this scab on my wrist.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> Anyway, I love that Wright (and to an extent Obama) are open about race.


I, too, love (or at least, appreciate) that Wright is so open about race so that we can see what a hateful racist he is. On the other hand, I believe Obama wishes Wright were less open, then he would not have to try to explain why he has had such a long and close relationship with such a man. Obama, however, is very fortunate in that if any other candidate had a similar situation, that candidate would have been driven from the presidential race long ago.

If Obama was so open about race, he should have been working on his own pastor's racism over the past 20 years.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> No idea where all this "victim" talk came from. I am finding your arguments to be more and more dishonest.
> 
> You clearly *rationalized*, the word I used above (not *justifying* as you used), things said by the likes of Jackson, et al.


To the first point that rich coming from you.
In any event I've done neither. I simply explained the obvious. They are clearly reactionary.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> To the first point that rich coming from you.
> In any event I've done neither. I simply explained the obvious. They are clearly reactionary.


It seems everyone else has given up on the thought you might see reason. Even my optimism has faded. The thread is yours.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Reactionary is Eubonics for racist.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

ksinc said:


> Can us white guys react to a racist society too?


DUH or course not...didnt you know that white people are the only racists that there are???

I couldnt join the fray earlier because I was buisy...but I see good ol jpierpont is at it again...dont waste your time trying to convince this guy of anything...I man here's a guy who probably doesnt even think that Richard Williams is a racist (that oughtta charge his batteries lol)...


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Kav said:


> Reactionary is Eubonics for racist.


ROF[email protected]! That's a classic!


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## RLW76 (Mar 17, 2008)

Kav said:


> I'm sound asleep in my barracks when lifelong friend Jo Jo walks in from a long patrol. He is so wired from the flight he couldn't sleep and suggested we, we including our new roommate Frank from Arizona( who bore an uncanny resemblance to Frank Luke the AZ balloon buster) call a cab and go downtown. frank and I each threww a shoe at Jo Jo. 2 minutes later we sat up, unable to fall back to sleep and got dressed. We got our cab and drove to THE BREAKERS, a Kodiak bar and restuarant that was one part Jack London and one part Jack Kerouak. Im sitting there contemplating how the butter in my Hot Buttered Rum looked like a Lava Lamp and both a microcosm of the formation of the universe and wondering when my steak and eggs would arrive. I heard this deep baritone worthy of an Opera singer utter two very perfunctory words in the direcction of Frank. I looked up in time to see a 6' 9" transvestite who looked vaguely like the captain of a crabber I had towed in a month previous pass in a shoulderless red evening dress. Frank mumbled all he did was stare in shock and laugh a little as this lithuanian skipper suggest we cut anchor and make a run for it. Well, Dorothy of OZ came about and started walking angrily toward us with a finnish Puukko knife.I shouted "You want a piece of me sweetheart?" as I tossed my drink on the floor and she slipped on the warm butter. Jo Jo, himself a pretty big guy at 6'6" grabbed the bowl of salt with the small spoon it it and threw it in her eyes and simultaneously pushed us out into the winter twilight, a cab and the safety of the gate checkpoint. Jo Jo and I were able to continue our misadventures two years later in the Bay Area. We went into some of the toughest parts of Oakland and Sf's Tenderloin. We encountered pimps, homicidal leather gays, American nazi party members in uniform and uncounted drunk and disorderly enlisted personel. Anytime we faced a crowd, I'd ask Jo Jo " See any transvestites in red?" Jo Jo would respond, nope, just a bunch of nazis or N***** pimps or Navy Squids.We never worried about anybody pulling up alongside us, knowing the Transvestite vanished with her crabber in a Bering Sea storm 6 months after our encounter.


Such an odd tale 

RW


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

RW, We all have bogeymen under our beds waiting for the lights to go out and our Spotsylvania Kalashnikovs confiscated. I have, through a rich childhood, glory covered military career and academic achievement at the finest of hippie, liberal universities managed to avoid all such debilitating prejudices. All, except 6' 9" alaskan fishermen transvestites in red dresses. I see one, and it's Birth of a Nation all over again.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> You can minimize it by calling them "victims" or whatever, but it doesn't change the facts that if the U.S was not overtly racist for most of its history then we'd not have Jesse or Sharpton or Farakahn.


The U.S. was never racist; it was merely reactionary.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Somehow our racist history also produced black men and women who excell, and continue to excell in every field of human endeavor from the battlefield to hospital operating room, opera stage and pushing into polar ice and wind. America, indeed the world at large would be a far lesser place without them. I'd much rather discuss a Paul Robeson than a Sharpton. And we can! Just check out the Tony Brown Journal online and on the T.V. His clothing is a great watch too. I wish I had his complexion instead of my own :O( What colours he coordinates! Dammit!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Kav said:


> I'm sound asleep in my barracks when lifelong friend Jo Jo walks in from a long patrol. He is so wired from the flight he couldn't sleep and suggested we, we including our new roommate Frank from Arizona( who bore an uncanny resemblance to Frank Luke the AZ balloon buster) call a cab and go downtown. frank and I each threww a shoe at Jo Jo. 2 minutes later we sat up, unable to fall back to sleep and got dressed. We got our cab and drove to THE BREAKERS, a Kodiak bar and restuarant that was one part Jack London and one part Jack Kerouak. Im sitting there contemplating how the butter in my Hot Buttered Rum looked like a Lava Lamp and both a microcosm of the formation of the universe and wondering when my steak and eggs would arrive. I heard this deep baritone worthy of an Opera singer utter two very perfunctory words in the direcction of Frank. I looked up in time to see a 6' 9" transvestite who looked vaguely like the captain of a crabber I had towed in a month previous pass in a shoulderless red evening dress. Frank mumbled all he did was stare in shock and laugh a little as this lithuanian skipper suggest we cut anchor and make a run for it. Well, Dorothy of OZ came about and started walking angrily toward us with a finnish Puukko knife.I shouted "You want a piece of me sweetheart?" as I tossed my drink on the floor and she slipped on the warm butter. Jo Jo, himself a pretty big guy at 6'6" grabbed the bowl of salt with the small spoon it it and threw it in her eyes and simultaneously pushed us out into the winter twilight, a cab and the safety of the gate checkpoint. Jo Jo and I were able to continue our misadventures two years later in the Bay Area. We went into some of the toughest parts of Oakland and Sf's Tenderloin. We encountered pimps, homicidal leather gays, American nazi party members in uniform and uncounted drunk and disorderly enlisted personel. Anytime we faced a crowd, I'd ask Jo Jo " See any transvestites in red?" Jo Jo would respond, nope, just a bunch of nazis or N***** pimps or Navy Squids.We never worried about anybody pulling up alongside us, knowing the Transvestite vanished with her crabber in a Bering Sea storm 6 months after our encounter.


Kav: If you do not write a book someday, assembling these ramblings under one cover, for our future enjoyment and to feed our sense of awe and feelings of wonder...I for one will be disappointed!


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> Kav: If you do not write a book someday, assembling these ramblings under one cover, for our future enjoyment and to feed our sense of awe and feelings of wonder...I for one will be disappointed!


I reckon it's computer-generated, based on some sort of associative algortihm. :icon_smile:


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## brioni007 (Dec 3, 2007)

*transcend your race*

I don't think these famous very, rich people transcended their race. Ask yourself this question. If these were just regular guys, would you want them to date your daughter? Your race is your race regardless of how rich and famous you become. Until America accepts that we are a very racist country to the core. We will always suffer from the ills of racism. Take a good look around, who are most of your friends? Most people stick to their own kind! Sad but true. How can a segregated America overcome? We can't even worship the same God together. I wonder if haven or hell is segregated. We should just focus on being human beings that is something i hope we never transcend. It's time for change in America. Just look around, our poor are living like we are a third world country. A glimpse at the country's poor gives you a window to the soul of a nation. I think that a higher percentage of black people fall in the poverty classification. How can you expect these people to pledge allegiance to their America. Pledge to drug filled, premature death, and the stress of hopelessness.
Sometimes we have to put ourselves in the shoes of others to understand. Or should they all just pull themselves up by their boot straps.



Cruiser said:


> I have to agree with this.
> 
> I would not vote for Obama simply because his politics are too liberal for me; however, having said that, I found myself admiring and respecting him personally in that he seems to represent a new breed of Black political leader in that he has risen to his current position without basing 90 percent of what he says and does on race, unlike folks like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. I'm not necessarily dissing Jackson and Sharpton because they began their careers in a different era and perhaps at that time did what was not only necessary, but also right. I would like to think that we as a society are largely past that now.
> 
> ...


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Somewhere in between the bootstrap thing and the blaming everything on racism that certainly is not anywhere near as virulent as it once was is a possible solution.

Most of these "third world" folks like far better than real third world people do. In the real third world, there is severe danger of starvation, not obesity, and almost everyone who wants one has a TV. 

There is a lot of improvement needed to happen, but rhetoric that exaggerates or inflames does nothing to solve the problem and demotivates people who might want to help.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

brioni007 said:


> We will always suffer from the ills of racism.


We sure will, as long as people insist on harping on the subject and never letting it die...


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

brioni007 said:


> I don't think these famous very, rich people transcended their race. Ask yourself this question. If these were just regular guys, would you want them to date your daughter? Your race is your race regardless of how rich and famous you become. Until America accepts that we are a very racist country to the core. We will always suffer from the ills of racism. Take a good look around, who are most of your friends? Most people stick to their own kind! Sad but true. How can a segregated America overcome? We can't even worship the same God together. I wonder if haven or hell is segregated. We should just focus on being human beings that is something i hope we never transcend. It's time for change in America. Just look around, our poor are living like we are a third world country. A glimpse at the country's poor gives you a window to the soul of a nation. I think that a higher percentage of black people fall in the poverty classification. How can you expect these people to pledge allegiance to their America. Pledge to drug filled, premature death, and the stress of hopelessness.
> Sometimes we have to put ourselves in the shoes of others to understand. Or should they all just pull themselves up by their boot straps.


You might consider quitting projecting, brioni. I'm a white guy with a 22 year-old daughter, and my position on the matter of dating, marriage, whatever, has always been that race is not that relevant. Oh, sure, so-called mixed marriages carry with them seome extra challenges, but if you are unprepared for that, you're unprepared for marriage. Admittedly, I have greater reservations today than I used to, but that is not because I'm racist; it is because I have a better understanding of Black anger, and I think that anger brings far more baggage to a relationship than the racism of third parties. And the vast majority of my white friends feel the same way.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

ksinc said:


> Can us white guys react to a racist society too?


Yes,we're always getting picked on because of the color of our skin.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Somewhere in between the bootstrap thing and the blaming everything on racism that certainly is not anywhere near as virulent as it once was is a possible solution.
> 
> Most of these "third world" folks like far better than real third world people do. In the real third world, there is severe danger of starvation, not obesity, and almost everyone who wants one has a TV.
> 
> There is a lot of improvement needed to happen, but rhetoric that exaggerates or inflames does nothing to solve the problem and demotivates people who might want to help.


+1 Good post.


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## brioni007 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Blame*

It seems like you fail to understand that a lot of people in America feel like racism has played a large role in race relations in this country. just to my point that most are not willing to deal with this issue in an honest and open forum (the 800 pound money in the room) The problem is systematic. We just push it aside and say just get on with your life. Yes slavery ended 100 years ago, but the attitudes and systems did not. We are only talking about four generations ago. Go visit and the hood/ghetto. You might find that things have not changed all that much. It's an American problem. if we don't help that problem will not go away. Check the stats on death and poverty in the hood, you might be surprise that it's close to the third world. Open your eyes! \



forsbergacct2000 said:


> Somewhere in between the bootstrap thing and the blaming everything on racism that certainly is not anywhere near as virulent as it once was is a possible solution.
> 
> Most of these "third world" folks like far better than real third world people do. In the real third world, there is severe danger of starvation, not obesity, and almost everyone who wants one has a TV.
> 
> There is a lot of improvement needed to happen, but rhetoric that exaggerates or inflames does nothing to solve the problem and demotivates people who might want to help.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

"Death and poverty in the hood"? I think someone just watched American Gangster.

In certain demographic segments in "the hood", the major cause of death is homicide. Even in the third world, that is an anomaly.

There is still racism in the US. Racists are all colours. There is also much integration in the US. To not acknowledge that the US really does offer the chance, *the chance*, for all to succeed, regardless of race, colour, creed, or national origin, is foolish and delusional.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I am retired from the U.S. Government civil service. About eight or so years ago a friend of mine who was an assistant to a Deputy Undersecretary in my agency in Washington told me that someday after we were both retired he had something to tell me. He retired about three years ago and a year after that I retired. Remembering what he said I called and asked what it was he said he would tell me.

My friend reminded me of two promotions that I did not get during my career. In both cases he said that I had been the most qualified and had been selected both times; however, my selection was overruled by higher ups. Once it was to promote a woman and the other was to promote a Black guy. He told me that despite the fact that I stood head and shoulders above both candidates in every category from education to experience to competence in the job, it was thought to be essential that the number of minorities and women in those positions needed to be increased so the agency could look good.

Even though I'm a White male, I now know what it feels like to work hard for something and then it be denied for no reason other than discrimination against me because of my race and sex. Not getting those promotions back when I should have has cost me thousands of dollars in my pension. So I now know what discrimination feels like.

Cruiser


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

brioni007 said:


> How can you expect these people to pledge allegiance to their America. Pledge to drug filled, premature death, and the stress of hopelessness.
> Sometimes we have to put ourselves in the shoes of others to understand. Or should they all just pull themselves up by their boot straps.


My suggestions:

Don't get pregnant (or impregnate someone) early/outside of marriage)

Don't do the drugs.

Stay in school and work hard on your education.

After high school, look for college scholarships, grants, student loans. (and in Georgia you can even use the Hope Scholarship to pay for tuition and some towards books to the local college).

This is the way to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I truly believe that in even in your so-called "racist to it's very core" America, this will put one's chances for success, a way out, in their own hands.

The alternative: do drugs, get pregnant, don't get an education. Stay just where you are.

The hope and the opportunity is there. It's not easy, but choose your path.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

brioni007 said:


> I don't think these famous very, rich people transcended their race. Ask yourself this question. If these were just regular guys, would you want them to date your daughter? Your race is your race regardless of how rich and famous you become. Until America accepts that we are a very racist country to the core. We will always suffer from the ills of racism. Take a good look around, who are most of your friends? Most people stick to their own kind! Sad but true. How can a segregated America overcome? We can't even worship the same God together. I wonder if haven or hell is segregated. We should just focus on being human beings that is something i hope we never transcend. It's time for change in America. Just look around, our poor are living like we are a third world country. A glimpse at the country's poor gives you a window to the soul of a nation. I think that a higher percentage of black people fall in the poverty classification. How can you expect these people to pledge allegiance to their America. Pledge to drug filled, premature death, and the stress of hopelessness.
> Sometimes we have to put ourselves in the shoes of others to understand. Or should they all just pull themselves up by their boot straps.


So how would you resolve these issues?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> There is still racism in the US. Racists are all colours


Somehow we just can't avoid it,It's hard to deal with when someone calls you a derogatorial name.


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## brioni007 (Dec 3, 2007)

*Movies*

I didn't see that movie.



Wayfarer said:


> "Death and poverty in the hood"? I think someone just watched American Gangster.
> 
> In certain demographic segments in "the hood", the major cause of death is homicide. Even in the third world, that is an anomaly.
> 
> There is still racism in the US. Racists are all colours. There is also much integration in the US. To not acknowledge that the US really does offer the chance, *the chance*, for all to succeed, regardless of race, colour, creed, or national origin, is foolish and delusional.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I have to laugh at a guy who's handle is "Brioni" complaining about poverty...


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

brioni007 said:


> We should just focus on being human beings that is something i hope we never transcend. It's time for change in America. Just look around, our poor are living like we are a third world country. A glimpse at the country's poor gives you a window to the soul of a nation. I think that a higher percentage of black people fall in the poverty classification. How can you expect these people to pledge allegiance to their America. Pledge to drug filled, premature death, and the stress of hopelessness.
> Sometimes we have to put ourselves in the shoes of others to understand. Or should they all just pull themselves up by their boot straps.


Hey Bro, the 60's are over! Every society throughout history, regardless of its affluence has had poor people. Ask yourself if you would rather be poor in this country or in China, Mexico, anywhere in Africa or in the Gaza strip. Being poor in America is an awful lot better than you can imagine. Even our poor are fat!


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## jcriswel (Sep 16, 2006)

*Barack and Tiger*

Racism is an insidious thing. When Tiger first won the Masters in 1997 he was confronted with this from Fuzzy Zoeller:

Zoeller's comments at the Masters were: "That little boy is driving well and he's putting well. He's doing everything it takes to win. So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not serve fried chicken next year. Got it?" 
Then Zoeller smiled, snapped his fingers, and walked away. Then he turned and added, "or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve."

There's nothing overt here - no call to arms etc. The problem is the pernicious underlying prejudice that is hard to miss - "...whatever they serve". Whenever someone uses terms like "those people" and "whatever they", we all know there's a problem. This was only eleven years ago. It's remarkable to me that we have overcome this type of insulting innuendo to having a fabulous candidate for President of the United States.

For the record, I like Barack's politics and I don't like what we have had for the past eight years and I certainly don't want four more.

jcriswel


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

jcriswel said:


> Racism is an insidious thing. When Tiger first won the Masters in 1997 he was confronted with this from Fuzzy Zoeller:
> 
> Zoeller's comments at the Masters were: "That little boy is driving well and he's putting well. He's doing everything it takes to win. So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not serve fried chicken next year. Got it?"
> Then Zoeller smiled, snapped his fingers, and walked away. Then he turned and added, "or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve."


This was nothing more than "locker room" humor and what is funny in the locker room very often doesn't play that well with the general public and the media. Zoeller was stupid, not racist. For what it's worth Tiger has been known to tell his share of racially tinged jokes in the locker room too, he just has enough common sense to leave them in the locker room.

Cruiser


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

jcriswel said:


> Racism is an insidious thing. When Tiger first won the Masters in 1997 he was confronted with this from Fuzzy Zoeller:
> 
> Zoeller's comments at the Masters were: "That little boy is driving well and he's putting well. He's doing everything it takes to win. So, you know what you guys do when he gets in here? You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not serve fried chicken next year. Got it?"
> Then Zoeller smiled, snapped his fingers, and walked away. Then he turned and added, "or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve."
> ...


What's really amazing is that your fabulous candidate sat in the pews for 20 years and listened to his mentor/minister's rants and others much worse than Zoeller's distasteful remarks (and the reason for this very thread, in fact). That seems even more remarkable.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Kav said:


> I'd much rather discuss a Paul Robeson than a Sharpton. And we can! Just check out the Tony Brown Journal online and on the T.V. His clothing is a great watch too. I wish I had his complexion instead of my own :O( What colours he coordinates! Dammit!


See and you didn't think we were of the same cloth.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

rkipperman said:


> The U.S. was never racist; it was merely reactionary.


No the U.S was the imposer, and Wright is reacting to their imposition. The fact that you fail to honestly respond to that says plenty about you and the others here.
On the subject of racial conflicts, who cares. Way said it best; the U.S offers opportunities for most people who try hard enough to progress, I do not care if Brad are buddies while doing it.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

rkipperman said:


> *Guess who?*
> 
> Here is the quote attributed to _________ by John Pekkanen in Life mag 11/21/69 p.68: "_____ talks about himself at these meetings. Once he told of his days as a waiter at the Jack Tar Hotel in his home town of Greenville, S.C. Just before leaving the kitchen he would spit into the food of white patrons he hated and then smilingly serve it to them. He did this, he said, 'because it gave me psychological gratification.' "


Hmmm, no one was able to figure this one out?


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

rkipperman said:


> Hmmm, no one was able to figure this one out?


Has Jesse been extraordinarily quiet during this presidential season or am I just not watching closely enough?


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

Relayer said:


> Has Jesse been extraordinarily quiet during this presidential season or am I just not watching closely enough?


He was in Chicago yesterday for the unveiling of a statue in honor of Mr. Cub. I guess that's where he's been.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

Relayer said:


> Has Jesse been extraordinarily quiet during this presidential season or am I just not watching closely enough?


Ring Ring Ring! You are the winner!!:icon_cheers:


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## brioni007 (Dec 3, 2007)

We live in a world where the top 2% has the wealth. So we all should have a little compassion for those who have less. I think if you have been blessed should pay it forward. At-least acknowledge that their is a big gap! Every one should have the chance to change their situation in America. That's the America that I believe in!



The Gabba Goul said:


> I have to laugh at a guy who's handle is "Brioni" complaining about poverty...


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

brioni007 said:


> We live in a world where the top 2% has the wealth.


Is there any country where the top 2% do not have the wealth?


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

brioni007 said:


> We live in a world where the top 2% has the wealth. So we all *should* have a little compassion for those who have less. I think if you have been blessed should pay it forward. At-least acknowledge that their is a big gap! Every one should have the chance to change their situation in America. That's the America that I believe in!


Should or must?

Should Bill Gates have compassion for me because I have to drag myself out of bed every morning and go to work? Because I don't have the means he does? We live in a country of haves and have mores.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

brioni007 said:


> We live in a world where the top 2% has the wealth. So we all should have a little compassion for those who have less.* I think if you have been blessed should pay it forward.* At-least acknowledge that their is a big gap! *Every one should have the chance to change their situation in America. *That's the America that I believe in!


Blessed? Like...I prayed before I went to bed one night, then WHAM!!! I had a good education and respectable resume. I mean, I was just *blessed* with my current position?

Everyone does have a chance to change their situation. I did. And not a single blessing other than the insanity it takes to put in 80 hours a week for 10-15 years.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

brioni007 said:


> Every one should have the chance to change their situation in America. That's the America that I believe in!


For the most part everyone does have the chance to change their situation, if they will only take advantage of that chance. I was born into the public housing projects. My parents had 10th grade educations. Both of my brothers were high school drop outs. One became a drug dealer and died young as a by-product of his vocation.

I graduated from high school and joined the Navy to get the GI Bill so I could go to college. I then worked hard to get ahead going to night school for my Master's Degree and then continued to work hard at my job. I went in early and stayed late.

What about my story isn't something that any other person cannot do if they will only apply themselves and make smart decisions along the way? Nothing that I see. No other country on earth gives it's citizens as many opportunities to get ahead as does the United States.

Cruiser


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Cruiser, I see what you mean and I agree with the sentiment. Malcolm X espoused much the same. However, in the current educational climate, it does not surprise me that kids are dropping out of school like they do. A few of my friends are schoolteachers in the projects, and they are always angry that the other teachers just show up to get their salary hours and leave, without giving any care to the students or their needs.

Despite that, exceptional people, yourself included, did not let that stop them, but I don't think the same expectation can be applied to all. I think that the school system needs a lot of reform.

The saddest thing is, in the past couple of years, the Ivies and other prestigious schools have put policies in place to provide for any student if he or she cannot afford education. It's a wonderful development, but I'm afraid that not enough of the target group will be able to take care of it.


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