# L.L. Bean Signature Rangers--made in El Salvador!



## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

I was very excited to see the new ltd ed. Eastport Ranger mocs show up on the L.L. Bean website this morning. But disturbed to see "Imported" in the description.



I called Bean this morning, spoke to a great SA who was a former Bean shoe factory worker--only to have it confirmed that these are made in El Salvador. 

What a disappointment. What a betrayal of the whole idea of L.L. Bean signature. As all of us fans of the old blucher moc know, the made in El Salvador new versions are not the same leather, the same quality as the old ones. Can these really be any better? What are we getting for the (slightly) higher price point? Better marketing?


----------



## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Also no E widths, so a betrayal of me.


----------



## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

As I mentioned in the earlier Signature thread, the leather tote looked attractive, but then saw it was imported. They're missing the point of the Americana revival.



dport86 said:


> I called Bean this morning, spoke to a great SA who was a former Bean shoe factory worker...


They moved a shoe factory worker to answering the phone? :icon_headagainstwal


----------



## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

I, too, wish that these were made in the USA. But, the fact of the matter is that for $79 you're not going to get handsewn, American-made moccasins any more (that's why companies like Quoddy charge outrageous prices). They actually look pretty nice -- I might take a gamble on them if they came in wide widths. My camp mocs (also made in El Salvador) are decent quality, and have held up well and gotten much more comfortable over time.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

AlanC said:


> They moved a shoe factory worker to answering the phone? :icon_headagainstwal


It's a shame, but now that he won't be stabbing himself with an awl, his workers Comp is much more reasonable!!

The guy in ES??

He just has to be careful.


----------



## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Ron_A said:


> I, too, wish that these were made in the USA. But, the fact of the matter is that for $79 you're not going to get handsewn, American-made moccasins any more (that's why companies like Quoddy charge outrageous prices). They actually look pretty nice -- I might take a gamble on them if they came in wide widths. My camp mocs (also made in El Salvador) are decent quality, and have held up well and gotten much more comfortable over time.





Pentheos said:


> Also no E widths, so a betrayal of me.


I was also annoyed by that, since I too need wide. When they last offered these a few years back they only had D widths then too, plus the price was the normal camp/blucher price. Strange and disappointing.


----------



## oxford (Feb 24, 2008)

Anything from LL Bean is basically the same quality you can get from Sears and Penny's. I live in Maine and never understood the fascination with LL Bean. They source from same places as national department stores. I much prefer Orvis. Save my money and get better things.


----------



## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

This has me pretty riled up too. However, there are still a few companies that make American mocs aside from quoddy.

https://www.footwearbyfootskins.com/

https://www.rwleatherboots.com/leat...d-wing-lifestyle-mens-wabasha-oxford-mahogany

https://www.arrowmoc.com/

https://www.townviewleather.com/

Quoddy has inflated their prices due to demand. Footskins and Townview are both cheaper than Bean and US made. I do not own any of these, though I am sure that they are at least of comparable quality to the Beans, though likely not as luxurious as the Quoddys.


----------



## kforton (Oct 26, 2005)

Youngster said:


> This has me pretty riled up too. However, there are still a few companies that make American mocs aside from quoddy.
> 
> https://www.footwearbyfootskins.com/
> 
> ...


Thanks, Youngster. I love these lists of American made goods. They are out there. If you are committed to supporting American workers, then it can be done. Not caring about where your clothing comes from is not trad, no matter what some may say.


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Youngster said:


> https://www.arrowmoc.com/


I have a pair of double-soled blucher mocs from Arrow. I've been very satisfied with them so far. Not much in the way of arch support, but after some use they start to mold to your feet. They did seem to bleed dye the first few times I wore them (I live in a wet area), and the "new leather" smell lasts a very long time and can be quite strong right out of the box, but I'm still a fan. They'll do special sizes or crepe soles for a few dollars extra, and offer resoles.


----------



## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

https://www.softmoc.com/us/systemshow-item_I7463 M

These are made in Canada, and also come at a lower price.


----------



## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Youngster said:


> These are made in Canada, and also come at a lower price.


If it's made in Canada, it's still imported.


----------



## PorterSq (Apr 17, 2008)

Topsider,

I suspect you're playing coy, but I'm glad of it anyway. I hate the soft racism that seems to be a fellow-traveler of complaints about imported goods.

Here's how it seems to work to me: if it's from the British Isles or Canada, no one will criticize it. Indeed, people LOVE to talk about their imported Irish sweaters, etc. If it's from another European country, that's OK, but not quite as good...especially if it's a poor European country; if it's from a land filled with non-white people, it's an abomination.


----------



## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

PorterSq said:


> Topsider,
> 
> I suspect you're playing coy, but I'm glad of it anyway. I hate the soft racism that seems to be a fellow-traveler of complaints about imported goods.
> 
> Here's how it seems to work to me: if it's from the British Isles or Canada, no one will criticize it. Indeed, people LOVE to talk about their imported Irish sweaters, etc. If it's from another European country, that's OK, but not quite as good...especially if it's a poor European country; if it's from a land filled with non-white people, it's an abomination.


What about South Africa? I bet that one's confusing.


----------



## Wrenkin (May 4, 2008)

PorterSq said:


> Topsider,
> 
> I suspect you're playing coy, but I'm glad of it anyway. I hate the soft racism that seems to be a fellow-traveler of complaints about imported goods.
> 
> Here's how it seems to work to me: if it's from the British Isles or Canada, no one will criticize it. Indeed, people LOVE to talk about their imported Irish sweaters, etc. If it's from another European country, that's OK, but not quite as good...especially if it's a poor European country; if it's from a land filled with non-white people, it's an abomination.


Apart from an intention to support domestic workers (read: "American", though it should be obvious that not everyone reading a forum like this is American), many of the complaints about Salvadoran shoes, etc, focus on quality. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that western industrialized countries that historically made goods traditional in those markets might be better at it, and thus country of origin would be a useful gauge of quality. That test obviously fails if one doesn't account for the fact that, say, Hungarians, while they might not be good at making Irish sweaters, have always been good at something similar to an English shoe. So one should be informed

Of course there is an element of romanticism about "real" Irish sweaters, etc, above and beyond mere quality, but, for example, as a Canadian I find a lot of the "authentic" American workwear resurgence ridiculous. I like Filson, and I'm obviously reading this forum, but one can quite easily fall into watching the old railroad videos posted on A Continuous Lean and always wearing a piece of chambray. It's great that some factory in New England has all this traditional knowledge, retained by resisting outsourcing, but it's obnoxious to think that by buying a $200 made in the U.S.A. shirt I am somehow associating myself with garment workers who realistically can't afford their own product without a staff discount.


----------



## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Topsider said:


> If it's made in Canada, it's still imported.


Believe me, we think much the same about all the crap you guys make.


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

PorterSq said:


> Topsider,
> 
> I suspect you're playing coy, but I'm glad of it anyway. I hate the soft racism that seems to be a fellow-traveler of complaints about imported goods.
> 
> Here's how it seems to work to me: if it's from the British Isles or Canada, no one will criticize it. Indeed, people LOVE to talk about their imported Irish sweaters, etc. If it's from another European country, that's OK, but not quite as good...especially if it's a poor European country; if it's from a land filled with non-white people, it's an abomination.


I like the transparency involved in buying domestically. Since there's no language barrier, tracking down the factory an item was made in becomes a bit easier. If I have particular complaints about an item, I can contact them with less of a headache. (Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean they're interested in anything I have to say. :icon_smile_big If I'm worried that they're treating their workers unfairly, or are being irresponsible environmentally, I have more outlets for my concerns to be heard. If I buy not only domestically but locally, I can visit the factory myself.

Dealing with English-speaking foreign countries, I get some of these, but my options are a bit more limited. After all, it's not my country. I suspect that British goods get a free pass due to rampant Anglophilia more than anything else. 

Dealing with foreign countries where English is not widespread, (and being an ignorant type with a poor grasp of other languages) I get none of those benefits. If I have a complaint about the quality, the best I can do is contact the importer. If they are manning the machines with children and dumping heavy metals into the drinking water, I wouldn't know. That isn't to say that in foreign countries this is a bigger risk than domestically (American sweatshops do pop up every so often, and there are honest businesses based in foreign countries), I simply like to believe that the transparency that buying domestically affords me gives me a better understanding of what exactly I am supporting when I wear certain products.


----------



## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

I've stated this elsewhere: I expect foreign quality to continue to improve, so that "made in China" will lose its stigma just like "made in Japan" did. What I object to are local jobs being lost, and workers getting paid $1.50 an hour for a shirt that costs $85. As long as I read articles on a nearly weekly basis about underpaid or underage workers, goods made in those parts of the world hold no attraction for me. This is regrettable, since the only way those nations will be able to raise their standard of living is by producing goods that their own people can afford, and wealthier nations will want.


----------



## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Doctor Damage said:


> Believe me, we think much the same about all the crap you guys make.


We don't make much these days.

And note that I never used any disparaging terminology (e.g., "crap.")

The point is, imported is imported, if the issue is keeping domestic workers gainfully employed.

The real objection to outsourcing (at least as far as "trad" is concerned) is that we generally prefer that things continue to be made the way they used to be, regardless of the original country of manufacture.


----------



## PersianMonarchs (Dec 7, 2005)

*LLBean and The American Worker*

The market will dictate how much LLBean can charge. It will dictate whether the country of origin matters to the consumer. It will dictate whether greater quality is demanded or lesser quality is acceptable -- and at what price. The best thing we can do for the American Worker is leave the market alone. From the folks who made American cars the worldwide equivalent of the Salvadoran shoe, the lessons of the marketplace are hard to learn, but in the end, once learned, we will all be better off.


----------



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

P Hudson said:


> I've stated this elsewhere: I expect foreign quality to continue to improve, so that "made in China" will lose its stigma just like "made in Japan" did. What I object to are local jobs being lost, and workers getting paid $1.50 an hour for a shirt that costs $85. As long as I read articles on a nearly weekly basis about underpaid or underage workers, goods made in those parts of the world hold no attraction for me. This is regrettable, since the only way those nations will be able to raise their standard of living is by producing goods that their own people can afford, and wealthier nations will want.


I think China is a bit different, since I don't recall Japanese products being reported as containing dangerous chemicals and being practically smuggled into the country. Maybe it happened, but it apparently didn't occur often enough for them to earn that reputation.


----------



## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

PersianMonarchs said:


> The market will dictate how much LLBean can charge. It will dictate whether the country of origin matters to the consumer. It will dictate whether greater quality is demanded or lesser quality is acceptable -- and at what price. The best thing we can do for the American Worker is leave the market alone. From the folks who made American cars the worldwide equivalent of the Salvadoran shoe, the lessons of the marketplace are hard to learn, but in the end, once learned, we will all be better off.


Isn't the lesson of Detroit that the marketplace did not dictate the outcome that American consumers wanted in the long-run? That marketing and market-dominance allowed car companies to reap profits in the short-term with products that the market place didn't really like or want--but were induced to buy through marketing, advertising and lack of viable alternatives. Once those alternatives appeared, the marketplace quickly rejected the degraded product--but a failure of management to anticipate this, and a system that rewards quick quarterly profits--led to the destruction of a great manufacturing base. Progress? Or failure?

The American marketplace does seem to love cheap clothing--and seems more than willing to trade off poor quality and lack of durability for low price. But all this return to trad and heritage does suggest a longing for old time quality not just nostalgia for old times or interest in old styles.

I had hoped the LL Bean Signature line would be a return to the quality products of the company's heritage. I'm now worried by virtue of how they chose to make it that 'heritage' is simply an empty association--much like the cloth faux-landau tops that tried to make bad American sedans of the 70's hearken back to their luxury chauffered coach-built cars of the past. If the marketplace rejects this, can we really expect Bean improve their Signature line? Or simply give it up.

If they didn't make the right choice the first time, do we really think the market will teach them?

It didn't teach Detroit. (And yes, I've driven an American car lately...)


----------



## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

Taken Aback said:


> I think China is a bit different, since I don't recall Japanese products being reported as containing dangerous chemicals and being practically smuggled into the country. Maybe it happened, but it apparently didn't occur often enough for them to earn that reputation.


Japan was pretty bad. Do you remember when they built a city called Usa so they could label things, "Made in USA"? I believe they lost in an international court over that one.


----------



## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

dport86 said:


> Isn't the lesson of Detroit that the marketplace did not dictate the outcome that American consumers wanted in the long-run? That marketing and market-dominance allowed car companies to reap profits in the short-term with products that the market place didn't really like or want--but were induced to buy through marketing, advertising and lack of viable alternatives.


Bloated unions might have had a thing or two to do with the demise of Detroit.


----------



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

P Hudson said:


> Japan was pretty bad. Do you remember when they built a city called Usa so they could label things, "Made in USA"? I believe they lost in an international court over that one.


https://www.snopes.com/business/genius/usa.asp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa,_Ōita

Don't feel too bad. You're not the first I heard repeat this. It still gets around.


----------



## oldominion (Dec 8, 2009)

*Got mine last week.*

Construction is excellent, as is the leather. Very solid and thick. As good as my Quoddys? Nope. But it definitely has that heft and cut of real leather and not some bizarre processed product. The laces are thick and original 
LLB and took me right back to 1982 and my first pair of Bluchers.

The sole is good, too. Would've loved a white deck sole like those alternate Bluchers from back in the day (what were they called?) but the camp sole is fine.

On my foot they feel right, a subjective judgment to be sure. But they are a real shoe and I commend LLB for aiming high, even if it's not made in Maine.

Really very well done if I do say so. Am happy to recommend, especially for the no-brainer price.


----------

