# Detroit Wins Again



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I see the metro area I left for the sunny desert has once again been named the most dangerous place to live in the US, followed in third, by its neighbor to the north, Flint. I have to say, when I was in the area in Sept., it really reminded me of just why I left. From the moment I hit the crappy roads at the Ohio line, as I drove past the Rouge plant belching pollution, to seeing the spill over to Windsor, Ontario at night downtown (new "clubbing" scene full of Detroiters), I sure do know I made the right choice exiting the Detroit metro-area.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Sniff.

'tis all I know.

It truly is a shame what has happened to Detroit. I grew up just 20 miles from Flint and I can remember back in the sixties before the whole place got blighted. Now, you can drive by miles and miles of boarded up buildings.

It's just a shame. They had a reputation for rowdy unions and GM stopped investing there. Now there are no jobs unless you work for the government in some way.

A real tragedy.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I agree FB2K. I blame much of what happened to Detroit on Coleman Young and much of what happened to Flint on Unions thinking they could wag the dog and then that they could stop world market forces.

I still love many things about that area, but I do not love that area, if that makes sense. I love the Hillberry and Bonistelle <sp?> Theatres, I loved Bricktown (although I think much of that is gone now for casinos), I loved the DIA and the Rivera Courtyard. I love the Great Lakes. But let's face it, 99% of the entire Detroit metro area is about on a par with Bagdhad.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> But let's face it, 99% of the entire Detroit metro area is about on a par with Bagdhad.


You mean Detroit proper right? Lots of nice areas still in metro Detroit: Grosse Pointe, Bloomington Hills, etc...

Cleveland same way, inner city a dump, but most suburbs are nice.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

JRR said:


> You mean Detroit proper right? Lots of nice areas still in metro Detroit: Grosse Pointe, Bloomington Hills, etc...
> 
> Cleveland same way, inner city a dump, but most suburbs are nice.


Actually, it's more than just Detroit proper. Downriver sure seems to have gotten worse, particularly Taylor, Alan Park, and Southgate. Areas of Dearborn not looking so good now. Out north too, like Pontiac. Don't forget what a mess Warren is (of 8 Mile fame). No, Detroit is such a festering sore it has infected many of the 'burbs.

I'll give you the Pointes, the Hills, etc.

I thought Detroit was coming back just before I left almost a decade ago. But when they ran Archer out, who was the best thing to happen to Detroit in the last 40 years, they signed their death warrant. When you re-elect a murdering whore-monger, and return to Coleman type politics, you can just about figure your city is a goner.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Nice to see that St. Louis has dropped out of the top position.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Actually, it's more than just Detroit proper. Downriver sure seems to have gotten worse, particularly Taylor, Alan Park, and Southgate. Areas of Dearborn not looking so good now. Out north too, like Pontiac. Don't forget what a mess Warren is (of 8 Mile fame). No, Detroit is such a festering sore it has infected many of the 'burbs.


Ouch, I didn't know Warren was so bad. I guess I should start locking my front door, then.

Pontiac - Was always dodgy. It has a small but interesting downtown area, though.

Downriver - Ditto Pontiac, but without the downtown, except for Wyandotte.

Dearborn - Is fine, the downtown area is expanding like mad. Dearborn Heights is rough, though. You should have stopped by the Henry Ford museum and Greenfield Village, which they have just spent millions revamping.



Wayfarer said:


> I'll give you the Pointes, the Hills, etc.


And Novi, Troy, Birmingham, Royal Oak, Ferndale, Bloomfield, Novi, Livonia, Farmington, Lathrup, Rochester, Auburn Hills, Canton, Northville... A lot of the cities that were crappy have rapidly gentrified in the last ten years. The 'burbs have expanded out to 23 mile / Shelby Township. There are million dollar homes on Armada Center Line at 32 mile road now.



Wayfarer said:


> I thought Detroit was coming back just before I left almost a decade ago.


It still is, you don't turn around 50 years of momentum in a couple decades. The whole Woodward corridor is being revamped, the WSU is expanding into the cultural center, Orchestra Hall has been revamped, as has the DIA, they are refurbishing the Book-Cadillac after 20 years of being closed, the river walk park from Belle Isle to Heart Plaza is almost finished...

There is still a lot of work to be done, but Detroit is in much better shape than any time in the last half century, arbitrary crime statistics notwithstanding. The current mayor is a complete tool (I've met him, and firsthand experience reinforces this,) but he isn't as big of a problem as the City Council.

Anyways, I'm sorry you had a crappy time in Detroit, hopefully you're next trip will be better.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

jbmcb:

Hmmm, I don't know. Like I said, there are things I like about the area, but the area itself...?

Downriver: stopped for gas at Northline and I-75, got hassled while I was tanking up. That used to be a perfectly fine area.

Dearborn: right by Greenfield Village, I stopped for lunch at La Shish on Michigan (the newer Dearborn one off Michigan, not the one on Oakman and Michigan). Three cars down, the car was broken into while we were eating.

WSU...well, I did my undergrad there. Nothing like walking over empty crack vials in the Cass Corridor. If it is cleaned up, great.

Detroit Medical Center...a jail in the emergency room, shoot outs monthly...heck, had my car stolen from one of the employee parking structures. Remember a female med student getting shot in the back by a 15 year old while she walked home from a clinical.

I am not saying there are not good aspects to the Detroit metro area or that there are not good places. What I am saying is that much of the area, at least when I left ten years ago and from what I saw in my two week visit back home in Sept, are unsafe, low quality of life, and have nothing to recommend them. 

You mention Livonia. I remember one of the things that really made me want to move was a young professional person getting shot in the head at the McD's drivethru by Metro Airport, in broad daylight. The scum just walked up and shot him, didn't even give him the option of just getting car jacked.

Does half the city still burn on Devil's night?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

What kind of rating did they give for New York City?


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

My first visit to Detroit I saw shirts being sold in stores which said "Come back to Detroit, we missed you the first time" w/ a handgun above it, nice.

Brian


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

vwguy said:


> My first visit to Detroit I saw shirts being sold in stores which said "Come back to Detroit, we missed you the first time" w/ a handgun above it, nice.
> 
> Brian


Here in St. Louis, they sell shirts that say _St. Louis, the Perfect Ghettoway_ (with city skyline in the background) _It's All Good in the Hood_ and _Keep East St. Louis Beautiful_, which features a stripper dancing on a pole.

-sigh


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*The voting was rigged, the chads were hanging*

My lovely city usually avoids the embarassment of the rankings, by not reporting crime statistics to the FBI. No stats, no crime, right?:icon_smile:

Pardon me, while I strap on my bullet proof vest for the three block walk to the parking lot where my car sits. My fingers are crossed and my insurance is paid up.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Hmmm, I don't know. Like I said, there are things I like about the area, but the area itself...?


Isn't that a bit of a cop-out? I like NYC a lot, but I wouldn't want to walk around Bed-Sty wearing my Oxxford jacket. Every "area" has it's problems, if you focus on them you wouldn't want to live anywhere.



Wayfarer said:


> Downriver: stopped for gas at Northline and I-75, got hassled while I was tanking up. That used to be a perfectly fine area.


Not familiar with the area, but I've never been hassled at a gas station, even in Detroit proper.



Wayfarer said:


> WSU...well, I did my undergrad there. Nothing like walking over empty crack vials in the Cass Corridor. If it is cleaned up, great.


The Cass corridor proper didn't start for a few blocks south of WSU, at least past TJs. I used to hang out all the time there, I'm not sure what the problem with that area is/was.



Wayfarer said:


> Detroit Medical Center...a jail in the emergency room, shoot outs monthly...


I think you mean Detroit Receiving. Yeah it gets a lot of action, it's one of the best emergency rooms in the area. MSU is opening up a hospital in the DMC as well. There are $400K townhouses going in a block down from the DMC, so I'm guessing the area has been fixed up a bit.



Wayfarer said:


> I am not saying there are not good aspects to the Detroit metro area or that there are not good places. What I am saying is that much of the area, at least when I left ten years ago and from what I saw in my two week visit back home in Sept, are unsafe, low quality of life, and have nothing to recommend them.


To each his own I guess. I live on a beautiful piece of property in the hellhole you alluded as Warren. It's quiet, there's a huge park at the end of the street, the schools are decent, there hasn't been any serious crime in the area (there are some rough parts of Warren, but it's a pretty big city.) Granted, you have to drive to find good shopping and restaurants, but nothing is more than 10 minutes away. The cost of living is low, no natural disasters to speak of, with a little effort you can buy excellent quality, locally grown meat and produce. I'm not exactly sure what more you could want.



Wayfarer said:


> Does half the city still burn on Devil's night?


You're way out of the loop, they cracked down on that years ago. It doesn't even make the news anymore.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Well, I stand corrected jbmcb. Just 299, 999, 999 people in the US left to go...

Hey, no one likes to have where they live criticized. I am glad you're happy where you are, I think we should all live somewhere that pleases us. Spending my first 30 years in and around Detroit revealed to me what I need to know. If things have cleaned up, great. I'm happy if they have. 

But I ain't moving back to the Detroit metro area.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

I've been to Detroit. We have friends that live in Birmingham, and another physician friend who is doing his residency in Flint. I didn't think it was that bad, but I live in St. Louis, which is also a "dangerous" city. Every city has it's bad areas, you just learn to avoid them.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Lax, I agree, but huge, huge areas of Detroit and Flint have been totally abandoned. It is sad to see all the boarded up buildings.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Detroit, like many of our larger cities, has some really tough areas/neighborhoods. It is the only city in which I have been cautioned by the hotel desk clerk, in the facility in which I was staying, not to go jogging outside...stating, "people don't do that around here, it just ain't healthy!"..., as I walked through the lobby in my workout gear. However, the City also has/had a marvelous cajun restraurant, just off the people mover stop in Greektown, called "Fishbones", I think, that I never missed an opportunity to visit when in Detroit. It has been my experience that Los Angeles, New York and, yes, even my beloved city of Chicago, face the same challenges...it is just a question of degree!


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Fishbone! Been a decade since I heard that name. Maybe as I am out of touch with downtown Detroit (Corktown, Bricktown, Greektown), a local could catch us up on those places. Did the old Woodbridge get torn down for casinos? The Rhino Club? The Spot? Soup Kitchen? Sardines? Franklin St. Brewing Company?


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> However, the City also has/had a marvelous cajun restraurant, just off the people mover stop in Greektown, called "Fishbones", I think, that I never missed an opportunity to visit when in Detroit. It has been my experience that Los Angeles, New York and, yes, even my beloved city of Chicago, face the same challenges...it is just a question of degree!


I remember eating there! Afterwards we spent the rest of the night at the Old Shelaleigh (sp?) and when we left at closing time, there were cops all around asking what we were doing walking that time of night. Little did we know the DPM had stopped running so they called us a cab.

Brian


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Fishbone! Been a decade since I heard that name. Maybe as I am out of touch with downtown Detroit (Corktown, Bricktown, Greektown), a local could catch us up on those places. Did the old Woodbridge get torn down for casinos? The Rhino Club? The Spot? Soup Kitchen? Sardines? Franklin St. Brewing Company?


Fishbones is still there, they opened up at 9 mile in St. Clair Shores and West Bloomfield, too. I've never been a fan, though, there's a better Cajun place called Howe's Bayou in Ferndale. Rhino Club, Sardines, The Spot and the Soup Kitchen are closed, Atwater is still around, as is Franklin Street, but there are a bunch of other really good microbreweries in town (Detroit Brewing Co across the street from Traffic Jam, Dragonmead and Kuhnhenn Warren, Black Lotus in Clawson...) Most of the old places are still around - Opus, the Rattlesnake Club, Congress Club, the Whitney, the Town Pump, Sinbad's, the Old Shillelagh, etc.. There are a ton of new restaurants downtown, Tom's opened up a branch on Jefferson, the Matt Prentice restaraunt group opened a fantastic place on top of the ren cen, there's also an Andiamo's and a jazz club in the Ren Cen's main building. There are a crop of new Cuban and tappas places, a great BBQ place in corktown, a ton of new clubs and bars...

As for all the abandoned buildings that are still around, they are fun to walk through! Check out the "Fabulous ruins of Detroit." I also belong to a somewhat private web site that is dedicated to going through abandoned factories, hospitals, and other interesting buildings. Michigan Central Station is loads of fun to walk through, you can see it in the last part of the Transformers movie - the big empty building the hero is running through. The old Packard factory is fun, too, as is Fischer Body.

https://www.detroityes.com/


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Sorry to hear about all the closures. I worked at some of those places during undergrad. Spent many an after hours party at Sardines. Thanks for the update though. Is Twingos still there across from the Hillberry?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

One of the suburbs, just north of Detroit had a restrurant called the "Fire House", that served the best ribs I think I've ever experienced. All this talk about "fine" restraurants and great food, in going to play h*ll with my dieting efforts.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Lax, I agree, but huge, huge areas of Detroit and Flint have been totally abandoned. It is sad to see all the boarded up buildings.


Sad indeed. Here's Old North St. Louis:

And East St. Louis:

These are the two areas that give St. Louis it's dangerous rating. I've never been to either area, so I have never felt unsafe living here. Sure there is crime in other parts of the city, but the majority is in these two areas, and some of the northern suburbs.


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