# Tweeds by region?



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

I thought maybe this deserved its own post.

I figure that since tweed has a big part in the look, (Trousers and hats can be imported directly, but I imagine that to get that natural shoulder look, you'd need to have jackets tailored here out of imported fabric.) it might be worth looking into the differences between tweeds of various regions.

*Manx:*

Tweed from the Isle of Man. Laxey Woolen Mills has been mentioned here before as a supplier, (Supposedly the last!) although they don't list any examples on their website. Fowlescombe offers the Manx tweed pictured above. I'm not sure I can identify what it is about it that makes it "Manx" though. Is it just the region it was made in, or are there any special stylistic characteristics?

*Derby:*

(A Derby tweed sold by someone called Stamford Clothiers)

H. Johnson over at the Fedora Lounge has this to say about Derby tweed:


> Derby tweed is woven from a hard, tightly spun woolen yarn (from the local hill sheep) and usually has a tight weave with an even twill (although I have seen herringbone tweed woven in the area). It is similar in weight to keepers' tweed (or slightly lighter) and is somewhat 'slubby' (although not to the same extent as Donegal tweed).
> 
> Typical Derby tweed is usually in grey, Lovatt or forest green with flecks of contrasting colour in the weave. Its most distinuishing characteristic is its parallel weft lines of contrasting colour of red and blue (or green, depending on the body colour). Less often, the warp and weft is contrasted in a sort of window-pane check.


Supposedly now Derby tweed is known for it's penchant for using wool blends.

*Islay:*

From Bookster Tweed's extensive . Can anyone shed any light on this? Stylistic characteristics? Here's the website for the , supposedly the last left there. Were there others at one time?
*
Donegal:*


















Magee is the big producer. Any others? Characteristics?

From the Fall 1934 Apparel Arts, courtesy of over at the London Lounge:


> After an eclipse of more than a decade, a revival of exceeding interest is the Irish nubbed Donegal tweed. This fabric with its characteristic colored flecks and its rough surface still carries the hallmark of its home spun origin. Heretofore, Irish Donegals have appeared in the customary basket weave, but many of them are now being executed in the new herringbone patterns.


 In another London Lounge thread, dropped by to say this:


> Donegal is a type of tweed that originated in Ireland. So far as I know, there is no association or protector of the name. Thus Donegal these days refers more to a type of cloth than to any origin. It is a kind of large scale woolen birdseye, often with a dull ground buit with smallish flecks of brlght colors woven in. It is typically denser and tighter than Harris Tweed. [. . .] Donegal does refer to a type of weave. It is much tighter and "harder" than Shetland, and typically denser and a bit thinner than Harris (which is really thick and heavy stuff). The classic Donegal pattern is a sort of birdseye. But there are other patterns. Just as most would (I think) say that the classic Harris Tweed pattern is a herringbone, but there are other patterns as well.


 Other thoughts?
*
Yorkshire:*

Any clues on this style? Supposedly Abraham Moon makes it, but what are the characteristics? (Any pictures?) Other makers? Circa 1920 it was apparently shorthand for imitation tweed made out of a recycled wool and cotton blend. Is that right?

*Shetland:

*(From a Shetland tweed jacket ala Andover Shop someone was trying to sell on Styleforum)

Usually softer than Harris (according to Chipp favorite ) and more expensive (forum favorite ). But what about style characteristics? Makers? Hunters of Brora was a big one, supposedly, but they no longer exist. Johnston's of Elgin says , though.

*Harris:*

The famous one. Hand-woven (Always? Or was it once also machine-woven?), certified (circa 1909) and protected by an . Supposedly there are 3 mills left that have the blessings of the Harris Tweed Authority: Harris Tweed Hebrides, Harris Tweed Scotland Limited, and . But what are the style characteristics? Herringbone as standard, I suppose. Anything else? Are there any "non-certified" mills in the area?

Any other regions that have been overlooked? (Saxony, maybe?) Any mistakes so far? I honestly don't know anything about tweed, which is why I thought a discussion might be helpful. 

Any thoughts or info would be greatly appreciated.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Not much help for you overall, but here's my Manx tweed jacket (by Racquet Club)(pic is from last winter). Other than being from the Isle of Man, the tweed itself doesn't seem to have anything special about it. Softer than a Harris and closer to a Donegal as far as "feel" is concerned. Not really one of my favorites and I'll probably send it to the thrift store in the fall.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

The Hangzhou Tianyuan Wool Spinning Products Co., Ltd. sure makes some interesting 'tweeds'. 

https://tyspin.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-210164191/tweed.html


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Katon

I am not a tweed expert. I have a Harris Tweed which I enjoy, but my next Tweed will be something lighter. I will use this thread as a resource.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

For a lighter-weight tweed similar to Harris I recommend Breanish, although this isn't a regional tweed but a trade-name. It's made from shetland, cashmere, and similar lighter-weight cloths in the Hebrides, and in my experience is very high quality.

Derby tweed used to be very good, and it's still a very durable material. Unfortuantely, current Derby tweed is often a wool blend (with as little as 60% wool included), and while it is durable and tough it rapidly pills and looks rather poor. Good for working field clothes, perhaps (although you relaly should go for Keeper's tweed here), but not something I'd recommend.


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*a case of tweed*

Proud of my piercing analysis, I threw my feet onto his red velvet, tassled footrest and drew on my favourite Peterson. "Argue with that if you can!" I challenged him, blowing a smoke ring in his direction. He set down his fiddle and stared at me in silence.

"Admit it, Holmes," I insisted. "My analysis is without flaw."

"Three piece tweeds, Border Tweeds at that, a stooped right shoulder from years of grouse shooting, the monocle, a limp that he could have got in the Relief of Mafeking with the 43rd. And he's meant to be the second son of the Duke of Buccleugh," repeated the great detective.

"Just what I said," I replied as he frowned.

"They are indeed border tweeds, but from the border of China and the Crown Colony of Hong Kong, due to the garish pattern of grayish magnolia blossoms, not a common feature of textiles from the Scots Borders," he began. "The stooped shoulder could come from thirty years of hauling platters of sweet-and-sour pork with wonton soup."

"Monocles are three-and-sixpence on Charing Cross Road, and the limp appears to result from a dogbite obtained while preparing a pooch for the cookpot. Furthermore, I doubt that the Duke of Buccleugh is a Chinaman, and thus unlikely to be his father," the hawkshaw concluded.

I decided to avoid Hangzhou Tweeds in the future.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

I thought this was going to be a thread about why Pet/Pantsuit guy is wearing tweeds in Tucson in June. As someone who grew up in Tucson and then lived in Phoenix for 10-years, I can't imagine they are comfortable or even conceive that they are appropriate.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

katon said:


> Any other regions that have been overlooked?


Maybe a bit of a technicality, but at one time Lewis tweed was viewed as distinct from Harris tweed. (It seems as though now both sorts of tweed are considered forms of Harris tweed?) What sort of stylistic differences were there? Someone seems to be banking on some sort of difference, at least. Also, here is an interesting article on the history of Harris Tweed by Henry Alan Moisley.

I've also heard rumor of an Orkney tweed... Any info on the matter?


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

turban1 said:


> I decided to avoid Hangzhou Tweeds in the future.


Although it's far too warm here to be wearing tweeds at the moment. I do quite like the border tweeds from the border of Zhejiang province and Jiangsu province.


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## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

katon said:


> .
> 
> *Islay:*
> 
> .


Bookster made me a three-piece suit in the Islay Carron tweed two years ago. In most respects I've been extremely pleased with it, in particular the cut of the jacket which can't be faulted. The tweed itself is good - I had originally been attracted to Hackett's rather similar Horse and Hound tweed, but the Carron is better in my view, being rather more subtle. It seems quite hard-wearing and hasn't turned shapeless or saggy the way some Harris tweeds can. I have to say the trousers are slightly hairy and rough on the legs and took a bit of getting used to, but that's characteristic of most tweeds.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

re tweed trousers: I get them lined to just above the knee (but not attached on that end).


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## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

The trousers were lined in that way, but for reasons that now escape me I cut the lining out, so I only have myself to blame.


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## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

Katon, I don't think you have mentioned West of England tweed, and saxony is a kind of wool (woven in north east Scotland I believe), rather than a tweed region in its own right (the Germans haven't caught on yet).


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Centaur, thanks for the info! Would you happen to know which mills produce West of England tweeds? Do they have any traditional style characteristics?


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## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

I really would like to help - I've worn tweeds for most of my adult life but, rather foolishly, have not devoted time to finding out more about them. My understanding of West of England tweed is that there are (or more likely were) a number of isolated mills in Oxfordshire/Gloucestershire/Wiltshire, in slightly upland sheep areas such as the Windrush valley for example. Hines of Oxford made me a herringbone hacking jacket as a student which was West of England tweed, quite similar to Harris tweed. That eventually expired on a barbed wire fence just east of Stonehenge, then I had a quite different, much denser thornproof keeper tweed jacket for beagling and other blood sports which was also W of E tweed, so it's rather hard to say what really distinguishes W of E from any of the Yorkshire tweeds. Bookster still seem to have stocks of W of E flannel, but that's not tweed (obviously). My preference nowadays is for the Scottish district tweeds - I have a cousin in the Queen's Own Highlanders and I was very impressed to learn that they have their own regimental tweed for mufti.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Cent: most interesting, keep it up: I think of tweeds as I do of oriental rugs: some highly local, a "tent" (cottage) industry from a given region, rich with rustic charm, some from big centers, highly sophisticated. Right after I do my tour, by convertible, of the hot springs of America, I plan to move on to the tweed weavers of Britain and Ireland! :icon_smile:


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## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

Tweed may have enjoyed a small revival in recent years, but it's rumoured that the best tweeds are now available only from the better Savile Row establishments - carefully stored 70 year old bolts of tweed, from long defunct mills.

But visit Islay and Harris, the Highlands and Ireland too by all means. I came across the mill on Islay quite by chance, while on a private tour of whisky distilleries. It's quite a simple place:









If you click on it you can see it more clearly.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Yes, a tweed and whiskey tour of places like that! 30 years ago I bought a bolt of a delightful, rustic Donegal in a village somewhere in Conemara, and sealed the deal with a glass of potcheen :drunken_smilie:


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## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

Given the leisure, I think I could easily be tempted into another such tour, if it weren't for the generally poor weather in the Highlands - but if it weren't for the weather, I suspect there would be less need for whisky.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

or tweeds.


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## bookster1uk (Jun 1, 2007)

Fowlescombe Manx Tweed is a very limited resource made from the wool of Rare Breed of Manx Loughtan Sheep, a multi horned breed native short tail breed, also known as Primitives. The type first known to be domesticated. The breeders nowadays collaborate when they can and have knitting wool and cloth made and the fleece is popular with hand spinners, so it is in very short supply. The meat is incredible.There is still a significant population in the Isle of Man, but a great number on the mainland.
Fowlescombe produce other derivatives too such as rugs. Their committment to promoting and making practical use of rare breeds is unbounded. Support them if you can.
A derivative breed of the Manx is the Castlemilk Moorit (there is a pic of one on our site). Originated by Sir Jock Buchanan Jardine on his Castlemilk Estate in Dumfrieshire. He wanted some Dun coloured sheep to match his Dun Galloway Cattle and look smart in the parkland. Rumour has it that he used to cull them by taking potshots from a window. The fine wool was used to make cloth to clothe he and his Ghillies, the suits often outlived them. They almost became extinct, there were only 10 left at one point. Similarly the breeders collaborate from time to time to produce cloth and knitting wool, its popular with hand spinners too.
Rare sheep breeds ( as listed by the Rare Breeds Survival Trust in the UK (RBST) / www.rbst.org.uk
and American Livestock Breeds in the USA (ALBC) are worthy of your attention, the range of cloth products offered by some breeders is very interesting, and if you buy from them, not only will you have a fairly uniques, natural often undyed cloth, you'll be helping them in a small way to keep going.Youmay even consider becoming a member of either of those organisations
At Bookster we would like to offer a Rare Breed cloth range, but as yet we are unable to source a consistent supply but we are working on it. Its wonderful stuff.

We have a small bolt of genuine vintage Manx Tweed ( not made from Manx Loughtan wool) illustrated on our site, you cannot order it from there but if interested just email us.

We are not tweed historians but may be able to make further contributions to this worthy thread


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Bookster: thanks for your wonderful post, rich in particulars and anecdotes; and the link to the rbst: I will be making a modest donation. My projected tweed and whiskey tour is taking shape: it now includes frequent meals of roasted lamb, and, since I'll bring my fly rod, lots of fresh fish. All I need now is time and money. Your hacking jackets are worn and admired at our local hunt club, by the way.

Turban: brilliant post! I'm still chuckling.


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## bookster1uk (Jun 1, 2007)

Centaur said:


> I really would like to help - I've worn tweeds for most of my adult life but, rather foolishly, have not devoted time to finding out more about them. My understanding of West of England tweed is that there are (or more likely were) a number of isolated mills in Oxfordshire/Gloucestershire/Wiltshire, in slightly upland sheep areas such as the Windrush valley for example. Hines of Oxford made me a herringbone hacking jacket as a student which was West of England tweed, quite similar to Harris tweed. That eventually expired on a barbed wire fence just east of Stonehenge, then I had a quite different, much denser thornproof keeper tweed jacket for beagling and other blood sports which was also W of E tweed, so it's rather hard to say what really distinguishes W of E from any of the Yorkshire tweeds. Bookster still seem to have stocks of W of E flannel, but that's not tweed (obviously). My preference nowadays is for the Scottish district tweeds - I have a cousin in the Queen's Own Highlanders and I was very impressed to learn that they have their own regimental tweed for mufti.


We are unable to source any kind of West of England Tweed these days, one of the best mills was BLISS in the cotswolds. We come across vintage items made from Bliss cloth. Lots of vintage Pytchley and Lambourne hacking jackets and suits were made from West Of England twill tweed, a fairly thick cloth with quite a soft finish, beautiful.


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## bookster1uk (Jun 1, 2007)

TweedyDon said:


> For a lighter-weight tweed similar to Harris I recommend Breanish, although this isn't a regional tweed but a trade-name. It's made from shetland, cashmere, and similar lighter-weight cloths in the Hebrides, and in my experience is very high quality.
> 
> Derby tweed used to be very good, and it's still a very durable material. Unfortuantely, current Derby tweed is often a wool blend (with as little as 60% wool included), and while it is durable and tough it rapidly pills and looks rather poor. Good for working field clothes, perhaps (although you relaly should go for Keeper's tweed here), but not something I'd recommend.


I heartily agree, we don't offer it,it is hard wearing . fustian as designed but it feels horrible That said we do sell 'vintage' ones on our eBay site and they are popular.


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## bookster1uk (Jun 1, 2007)

Centaur said:


> Tweed may have enjoyed a small revival in recent years, but it's rumoured that the best tweeds are now available only from the better Savile Row establishments - carefully stored 70 year old bolts of tweed, from long defunct mills.
> 
> But visit Islay and Harris, the Highlands and Ireland too by all means. I came across the mill on Islay quite by chance, while on a private tour of whisky distilleries. It's quite a simple place:
> 
> ...


We LOVE Islay cloth. It is still very popular in Savile Row. Gordon has to stop weaving to speak to us when we call, its as real as it gets, beautiful cloth.


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## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

That's a shame (I'm referring to what you said earlier about West of England tweed, not Islay). Would you say, Bookster, that the supply of tweed is beginning to dry up? Or of good British cloth generally? I've been looking for some cavalry twill trousers for yonks, but the only sort of cav twill one seems to see is poor stuff - half the weight, and slightly shiney. It should be dense and flat.


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## bookster1uk (Jun 1, 2007)

Centaur said:


> That's a shame (I'm referring to what you said earlier about West of England tweed, not Islay). Would you say, Bookster, that the supply of tweed is beginning to dry up? Or of good British cloth generally? I've been looking for some cavalry twill trousers for yonks, but the only sort of cav twill one seems to see is poor stuff - half the weight, and slightly shiney. It should be dense and flat.


There have and probably always will be casualties, JG Hardy nearly disappeared a year or so ago but were sympathetically saved, the new owners didn't savage the range.
We are able to source very nice Cavalry Twill, and do for some customers, theres a limit to what we can offer online. I should reconsider it. I know exactly what you mean, a lot of easily sourced Cav Twill is Wool / Poly and very flimsy. The same has happened with Moleskin.The mass producers, inc the very well known names buy cloth from places like Italy. It has the look, but not the substance and after a few wears........... 
It was continual disappointment with well known moleskin brands for myself that prompted us to make trousers other than our tweed and suitings. We don't make much on them as our individual make is so good and we pay top price for the cloth, but we are proud of them and they do compliment out jackets.
Although we are in tough times and people are having to be careful with money another factor is coming into play.....quality. 
If they are going to spend money, more people want garments that will last and that they won't become disenchanted with.This is a important for makers like us, and the cloth merchants and weavers alike.So we should all be cautiosly optimistic, thats my take on the situation from the pointed end.
It should also be said, the sites like AAAC (AAAC in particular) with their global reach, are definitely making an impact that I think can only increase.
Praise be to our host I say


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## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

Ok ok - that's very good news. I would like some manilla/buff coloured cavalry twill trousers, but with a few refinements compared to the last trousers you made for me. Could you send me a swatch? (I'm your customer in Northampton - if that's not specific enough let me know and I will give you my full address. ) Thanks


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Great thread, here is an article from 1955 Sports Illustrated https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1130155/index.htm

_With less guile and equal acumen, the Scots mill-owners in Hawick and other borderland villages such as Galashiels and Peebles; the crofters in cottages on the islands of the Outer Hebrides-North Uist, Lewis and Harris-and on the windblown flatlands of the Shetland and Orkney island groups have for centuries produced tweeds of such quality and character that they have set the standard for all the world. Scottish tweeds are also as individual as the people who make them. Those made in the Shetland Islands are very soft, for the Shetland sheep is a scrawny animal which produces short and silky wool fiber. Like their Norse ancestors, the Shetlanders prefer the natural colors of wool to dyed ones. Most of their homespuns, hand-woven under primitive conditions in their cottages, are patterned with the various shades of gray and brown of their sheep. Shetland tweeds are extremely popular for American suits and sport jackets.

Harris tweed is produced by cottagers in the cold Outer Hebrides and is a much more rugged fabric, a mixture of wool of the Cheviot and Blackface sheep who thrive on those rocky islands. Colors are usually compounded from vegetation that grows around the crofters' cottages: rusty brown from lichens, green from heather. Made into topcoats and suits, sturdy Harris tweed has long been popular in the United States. Now that Harris tweeds are being woven in lighter weights, they have more uses and America buys half of the yearly output of five million yards.

The thriving mills of the Scottish borderlands create great variety in tweeds-both traditional patterns and the more colorful designs sought by the women's fashion markets. Here also are woven those "district checks" for shooting tweeds that a Scotsman values next to his kilts._


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ This is my kind of thread fellas! Very informative and worthwhile.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Orkney tweed appears at about 5min 48 sec into this film clip



katon said:


> Maybe a bit of a technicality, but at one time Lewis tweed was viewed as distinct from Harris tweed. (It seems as though now both sorts of tweed are considered forms of Harris tweed?) What sort of stylistic differences were there? Someone seems to be banking on some sort of difference, at least. Also, here is an interesting article on the history of Harris Tweed by Henry Alan Moisley.
> 
> I've also heard rumor of an Orkney tweed... Any info on the matter?


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Paul Winston on T. Addie & Sons Shetland https://www.chipp2.com/blog/?tag=thomas-addie-sonexample of T. Addie Shetland https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Wbd-uMYm...AAEnE/J8xwkghs37I/s1600-h/Shetland+safari.JPG

When Harris isn't Harris-article by Tweedy Don https://after-the-denim.blogspot.com/2011/09/when-harris-tweed-isnt-by-james-taylor.html

Harris Videos

https://10engines.blogspot.com/2009/11/tweed-heaven-vic-reeves-updated.html



katon said:


> *Shetland:
> 
> *(From a Shetland tweed jacket ala Andover Shop someone was trying to sell on Styleforum)
> 
> ...


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