# Out of Fashion Names



## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

I predict that some great old names are gone forever, like the top hat and spats:

Walter
Hortense
Wilfred
Blase
Mary
Constance
Clarence
Cornelius
Maximillian


To name just a few. One time, there was no shame in any of these, and now, they are, or would be I venture to say, met with derision and perhaps even an outright laugh. Even names like Kathryn, Elizabeth and John are in the deep descendant, for Morgan, Madison and Jack.

Joe (another losing moniker, but hanging on here and there)


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

My grandfather was named Sidney, and his brothers were Cecil and Clarence. Those were the days...


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

My grandfather was named Percy. Top _that_.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Uncommon names are cool...

I was a little upset to see that Santino has found it's way into the top 1000 baby names over the past few years (the low 800's as last I recall)...aaah well, at least I can say that I was one of the Originals (well not really, but how many other Santinos do you know???)

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## Gong Tao Jai (Jul 7, 2005)

I think names like Walter and Mary will come around again. Wilfred and Hortense, probably not. I think that a lot of the trendier names are associated with a lower socioeconomic status. Looking at private schools for my daughter, I noticed that there are very few students at the more expensive schools with names like Brooklynne and Tiphoney. More Elizabeths and Marys. This also true at our preschool, which is affiliated with a teaching hospital. Most of the parents there are medical professionals or researchers, and the kids have pretty 'normal' names. 


I had a friend named Grenville-- I love that name. I like the English-sounding ones like Basil, Cecil, Desmond, and so on. 

An interesting one is Legare (prononced like Legree) which can be a name for a boy or a girl. It is particular to Charleston, SC, where it is one among many quirky old traditions.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by The Gabba Goul_
> 
> Uncommon names are cool...


Not for the kids who get teased every day because of them. (Luckily, I wasn't one of them!)


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

One of my grandfather's names is Roland.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Gong Tao Jai_
> 
> I had a friend named Grenville-- I love that name. I like the English-sounding ones like Basil, Cecil, Desmond, and so on.
> 
> An interesting one is Legare (prononced like Legree) which can be a name for a boy or a girl. It is particular to Charleston, SC, where it is one among many quirky old traditions.


Many years ago a friend told me about a book from that area, called _Correct Mispronunciations of Some South Carolina Names_. Very funny title. I see that it's on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0872495566/002-8692741-3210417?v=glance&n=283155


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by rojo_
> 
> My grandfather was named Percy. Top _that_.


Myron II. Aurgh!


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

I'm in my early 20s and just out of university.

One of my roomates was named Walter. Goes by Walt. Everyone was fine with it. The other roomate was Grayson. 

I worked with an Abigail and a Corinne. 

A very trad acquaintence was Alden.

His best friend Barrett.

I have been told that now that I'm a 'professional' I need to shed my 'childish' name and go by either John or Jack. Perhaps I will, though it makes me feel a little Kennedyish...

---------------------


Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Joe Frances_
> 
> I predict that some great old names are gone forever, like the top hat and spats:
> 
> ...


I don't think Mary's gone. I went to high school and college with some Marys. I knew one Blase, and actually there was a kid at my undergrad named Cornelius. Anarchist.

I think Constance is a beautiful name.

My grandfather was named Winfred. Of course, nicknamed Win or Winnie. But he suffered forever at the hands of inept receptionists who always brayed "Win[ni]fred [Coolidge]" loudly.

Honestly, I'd name a girl in his honor Winnifred.

But yeah, names are picked from the Chardonnay barrel these days as you said, many Tuckers and Tanners and Bretts and Brittanys and Dylans and Madisons.

Other uncommon names for recently borns: George, Hazel, Carol, Barbara, Deborah (aunt),Preston, Noel (great-uncle), Dorothy (my grandmother), Jean (my other grandmother), Regina (great-aunt), Kirby (my father), Margaret, Patricia, Henry, Kenneth, Edmund, Anthony (unless Italian or black...seriously few Anthonys of other backgrounds around here of late) and Charles seem rare among newborns and even among my (age 22) generation.

I'd happily name any of my kids those names though.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

One of the things we did when we had our own children, apart from consulting the family tree, was to look in the papers to see if they were going to get names that were over-fashionable. One needn't move down-market to wish that you had a less-common name. I remember a lot of Jennifers in my prep school classes, for example. Melissa suffered a wave of popularity for a while, too.

Anyway, we chose names that are simple, easy to spell, not too common, appropriate to the main ethnic groups in my family tree, and likely to remain on the fringes of fashion for some time. Classics, we hope.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

Top ten male baby names in U.S. for 2004: Jacob, Michael, Joshua, Matthew, Ethan, Andrew, Daniel, William, Joseph, Christopher.

Top ten female baby names in U.S. for 2004: Emily, Emma, Madison, Olivia, Hannah, Abigail, Isabella, Ashley, Samantha, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth has been positioned between #8 and #11 most popular girls' names for the last 25 years.

Edit: The name Samantha wasn't even in the top 1000 between 1960 and 1963. In 1964 it leaped to #474, then to #179 in 1965, apparently because of the TV show "Bewitched." It remained in the top 200 between 1966 and 1975, in the top 100 between 1976 and 1987, and has been in the top 10 every year since 1988.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

rojo, where did you get that information? That's very interesting...and very detailed!


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Teacher_
> 
> rojo, where did you get that information? That's very interesting...and very detailed!


The Social Security Administration has a web page with data on the most popular names for babies born in the U.S., based on actual counts from Social Security Number applications. You can display data on the most popular names in any given year, or enter a name and see how popular it has been over time.

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/

Edit: the names Darren and Darrin, like Samantha, jumped in popularity when "Bewitched" aired in the mid 1960s. Perhaps understandably, the name Endora has never cracked the top 1000.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

I never met another Zach growing up - now it seems that everywhere you go there are kids named zach. 

I like uncommon names. I wanted to name my son Odyseus, but my wife threatened to divorse me.


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## stache (Oct 1, 2004)

Does anybody remember when men were named Beverly and Dolores? Edit: And my grandfather was named Lynn. He was born in 1898, I believe.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Joe Frances_
> 
> Walter
> (...)
> ...


Still quite common names in Germany, together with the ones you mentioned in the last paragraph. I know e.g. at least three "Konstanze" (German version of Constance) in my age group (24) and younger.

+++++++

_"You look like you're ready for bed."_

(HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh to the President of Nigeria, who was dressed in traditional robes)


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## pendennis (Oct 6, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by stache_
> 
> Does anybody remember when men were named Beverly and Dolores?


Yes. I knew a man by the name of Beverly. I also know a man by the name of Shirley. It's not uncommon in the rural south.

I also know a man by the name of Joe Billy. He made sure that people understood that his given names were *not* Joseph William.

Dennis
If you wish to control the future, then create it.
Est unusquisque faber ipsae suae fortunae


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

> quote:Even names like Kathryn, Elizabeth and John are in the deep descendant, for Morgan, Madison and Jack.


I'm glad to see someone already provided a link to the Social Security website, because I was going to point out that John has consistently remained in the top 20 for at least the past 15-years.

Bradford --> father of John


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

My brother is Cedric. I've only met one other.


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## Lord Foppington (Feb 1, 2005)

What do all of you think of Dexter?

Stap my vitals!


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## Gong Tao Jai (Jul 7, 2005)

More awful baby names than you can imagine:


Examples: Egwene, Jaden, Taryn, Mykah, Nychole, Karsyn, Makynzi, Toolio, Mexigan, Tierranney, Kakinston. 



I suspect that the lists of popular baby names tend to skew towards the normal and traditional-- people who get 'creative' with names these days tend to make up their own spellings. So Katelyn, Caitlin, Katelynne, Kaitlin, will be entered as four different names and end up low on the list, even though they are all just variations of the same name.


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

Oscar. There is a lamentable dearth of Oscars. I blame it all on that damn "Weiner Wagon."

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

Sometimes less common first names sound odd out of context, but paired with the proper surname, they sound perfect.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

I like being an Arthur.

I've never met anyone my age with the name.


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## jeansguy (Jul 29, 2003)

I have family friends who named a son Nigel about two years ago.

www.thegenuineman.com


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## stache (Oct 1, 2004)

My poor niece is named Jesille. It is an extremely bad combination of her grandmothers' names, Jessie and Cecille. It is pronounced like Giselle - [xx(]


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

The book Freakonomics has a lengthy discussion about names and social class/economic success. It's worth a read, both for the author's analysis and to see some of the eccentric names. There's a story about someone who named his two sons Winner and Loser - the book goes on to describe what happened to the sons as they grew up.


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Trilby_
> 
> The book Freakonomics has a lengthy discussion about names and social class/economic success. It's worth a read, both for the author's analysis and to see some of the eccentric names. There's a story about someone who named his two sons Winner and Loser - the book goes on to describe what happened to the sons as they grew up.


I've always liked the name of the American short-story writer, Breece D'J Pancake. Of course, he shot himself . . . .

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by stache_
> 
> Does anybody remember when men were named Beverly and Dolores? Edit: And my grandfather was named Lynn. He was born in 1898, I believe.


I once met a man named Kimberly. It was when I was working retail, and his credit card had that name on it. I was just about to ask for ID and tell him that, by law, only his wife could use that card, but he beat me to it by showing me his driver's license. It seems that he was a twin, and his parents had already chosen the name Kenneth for a boy. They wanted something that would sound close: "Ken" and "Kim" fit the bill. I didn't have the heart to ask why in the heck they didn't just name him "Kim" like every other male Kim I know! (I also didn't want to ask why he didn't just use "Kim" on his card....)


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## Long Way of Drums (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Gong Tao Jai_
> I suspect that the lists of popular baby names tend to skew towards the normal and traditional-- people who get 'creative' with names these days tend to make up their own spellings. So Katelyn, Caitlin, Katelynne, Kaitlin, will be entered as four different names and end up low on the list, even though they are all just variations of the same name.


They do. You basically have to through and manually add up the name along with its "unique" misspellings to get an accurate pictur eof how popular a name is. For example, Caiden is not terribly popular. Ranks at about 400, slightly below Chris (another example). Add Caiden to the poor children of yuppie parents who made their child unique by further screwing with it to create such terrible names as Kaden, Kayden, etc, and you get about 33,700, which ranks quite a bit higher. Chris, likewise, doesn't take into account Christopher, etc.

761 girls were born in the last six years with the name Unique. Wish them luck. They'll need it.

"Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."

"Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keels. Makes her home."

*We will not walk in fear, one of another.*


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Teacher_
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What about a man named Sue?


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
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I didn't ask if he'd taken out his revenge!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

It's just boys named Sue that have trouble.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

Here's a fun item on the same topic (click "Launch Name Voyager"): https://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/

If you have Java installed, you can get a graph of the popularity of various names since 1880. What's particularly interesting is to look at the influence of presidents on baby names over the past century. Punch in Theodore, William, Woodrow, Warren, Calvin, Franklin, Dwight, and Lyndon and check out the placement of the spikes. John was already in the top 5 in the 1950s, so JFK's subsequent election couldn't have much effect on it. However, it is interesting that Truman had no effect on Harry/Harold. And after LBJ, presidents no longer produce any spike associated with their names. Indeed, if you check Richard, Gerald, James/Jimmy, Ronald, George, and William/Bill, you'll often find the name declined in popularity subsequent to the respective president's election.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> It's just boys named Sue that have trouble.


You, sir, are correct.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I have often suspected that ridiculous comic characters can kill off a name very effectively.

Two examples that come to mind are Elmer Fudd and Mortimer Snerd. At one time those were fairly popular names, not now. Interesting to see how they plummeted on on the baby name graph. Unsurprisingly, Adolph also tanked after the 1940s.

Having been named "Jan" after my Dutch father, I have been bedevilled by gender confusion because of the popularity of the girl's name Jan. I note with some satisfaction that "Jan" has disappeared from the top 1,000 names for girls for the past couple of decades.


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## Hanseat (Nov 20, 2004)

Wait... people think that Jan is a girl's name?
Just to please you, I will tell you that I know two Jan's in my class both of whom happen to be tall and well-built. No one would mistake them for girls- and neither should anyone with you (knowing yopu are not exactly a dwarf either).

For me my name was not that much of a problem as one can easily explain to people 'Nils' is like 'Neill+s'. A friend of mine however used to live in SoCal and his name is Ole- guess how he was welcomed in the morning... (in a mostly hispanic school).

-----

To the list: Maximilian is, I think number 3 or so, for babies in Germany. Funny, how the same name has such a different popularity in other countries.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Lord Foppington_
> 
> What do all of you think of Dexter?
> 
> Stap my vitals!


Dieu et mon....dexter


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Hanseat_
> 
> Wait... people think that Jan is a girl's name?
> Just to please you, I will tell you that I know two Jan's in my class both of whom happen to be tall and well-built. No one would mistake them for girls- and neither should anyone with you (knowing yopu are not exactly a dwarf either).


Jan with a hard "J" as in James is what you see in the female variant, not Jan with a "y" sound. Although Jan Michael Vincent is a hard J too.

That yearly Java index is interesting. What is prompting people to suddenly name children Madison and Camden? The film Splash? I think that was the first time I'd heard Madison used as a first name.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Hanseat_
> 
> Wait... people think that Jan is a girl's name?


In English it is often used as short for "Janet", "Janice", etc., with a hard "J" sound as VS indicated.


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## Vladimir Berkov (Apr 19, 2005)

There are a lot of girls names I wish were more popular. Such as my personal favorites:

Astrid
Ingrid
Ursula


The problem with most really cool names is that they only work on certain types of people. You can't risk giving your baby the name only to find out 10-20 years later their personality/phsyique is totally wrong for it. With Ursula for instance the name only works if the girl is a thin pale beauty with dark, dark hair and fascinating eyes and expression. It doesn't work for a tanned blonde surfer-girl with a big chest. Nor would it work for a short pudgy plain girl, on such a person it may indeed result in an early suicide.


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## queueball (Jun 16, 2005)

I named my son Duke. It's his middle name but that's what we call him. It's a nod to my mom as it is her maiden name. We were a little self-conscious about it for a while but either everyone really likes it or they are excellent actors.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
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There was an early 20th century naturalist named Madison Grant of some notoriety. During WWI he wrote a lengthy racist screed entitled "The Passing of the Great Race," in which he deplored, inter alia, how all the High Aryan types were busily killing each other. I fear, given the imploding white populations of Europe, there may have been more truth than most would care to admit in what he had to say.

Kind of nice to see folks naming their young 'uns in honor of my cousin Dolly's husband. (Dolly Payne Madison was a first cousin of mine, quite a few times removed.)


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Vladimir Berkov_
> 
> With Ursula for instance the name only works if the girl is a thin pale beauty with dark, dark hair and fascinating eyes and expression. It doesn't work for a tanned blonde surfer-girl with a big chest.


You need to watch Ursula Andress in Dr. No before you say that!


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

It almost seems cyclical though, looking at the link rojo provided.

Patricia and Deborah were not popular names before 1930. Then, from about 1930-1965, they were the rage. Now, they're about back to where they were in the 1910s.

Audrey, on the other hand, was popular 1930-1945 or so. Then it went into a long decline. However, in the past two years, it has leapt back into the top 100.

Shane was wildly popular from about 1970-1985 but has since slid off dramatically.

Holly enjoyed a surge from 1970-1990 but is now as unpopular as it was in 1949.

Adam and Jason, both popular from 1975-1985, are on their way out.

It all comes in cycles. Every name seems to be popular for 15-30 years, then fade into obscurity, only to return 90 years later. The Dorises, Harolds, and Walts may return yet.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
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Beat me to it, Coolidge!

I have always found something unaccountably sexy about traditional German names like Ingrid, Gretchen, Ilsa, Claudia, Heidi. Just typing that list conjures visions of a pillow fight in an all-girls academy nestled in the Swiss Alps...


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Teacher_
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True, although, if one can endure a bit of ridicule in elementary school, they'll realize how cool it can be, after reaching about age 10, I realised that my name had a ton of cachet...plus, everybody knows multiple Joes and Timmothys and Evans...but when you have an uncommon name, chances are, that you're the first person they've met with that name, so they remember you...plus, (especially in my case) there is opportunity for plenty of cool nicknames...the only drawback now is that every now and then I'll encounter somebody who doesnt quite understand the concept of phonetics, and therefore mispronounces it terribley _("Santiago??? Santos??? San Antinoio???)_...but I guess that comes with the territory...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## mgnov (Jan 11, 2006)

My mother is Fredona, and her sister was Willafred.

They went by their middle names.


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## Vladimir Berkov (Apr 19, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
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Hmmm, I think I will stick by my general assertion though. It is pretty hard for a blonde to be mysterious and exotic. Perhaps some pull it off, but in general I think blondes are more suited to play the hand they are dealt. (Not that it is a bad hand, mind you!)


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Queueball

Nice name!!
For your son

Nice day my friend

Jimmy


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

How about names like Ashley, Desmond, Lesmond for males?

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## queueball (Jun 16, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DukeGrad_
> 
> Queueball
> 
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Thanks. I love the name but it somewhat pained me to give it to him...I'm a Terp.


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Rupert 
Algernon


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## rtaylor61 (Jul 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by rojo_
> 
> My grandfather was named Percy. Top _that_.


My dad's first name is A
His middle name is D
These are not initials, no periods added, just A D

His close friends call him Junior!

Randy

"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." J. B. Books


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

Some that may be gone for good (or almost):

Male:
Harvey
Willard
Leslie (as in Neilson, and I have personally known a male Leslie)
Eugene
Carroll
Gay

Female:
Pauline
Ora
Ouida
Illa
Trudy

My grandfather was Comer Gettis P***
My father is Lavert Yancey B*****
My wife is Zandra (from her grandmother, Alexandra)
My M-I-L is Willie Nell R*******
My F-I-L is Enoch
Wife's Uncle was Doyce


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
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But the man dressed well:










I move that Madison Grant - lawyer, naturalist, eugenicist - be identified as the first, but not the last, AAAC "Past Master." In addition to an elegant turnout, Grant held opinions that at least some members should find congenial:



> quote:In the democratic forms of government the operation of universal suffrage tends toward the selection of the average man for public office rather than the man qualified by birth, education, and integrity. How this scheme of administration will ultimately work out remains to be seen, but from a racial point of view, it will inevitably increase the preponderance of the lower types and cause a corresponding loss of efficiency in the community as a whole.
> 
> The tendency in a democracy is toward a standardization of type and a diminution of the influence of genius. A majority must of necessity be inferior to a picked minority, and it always resents specializations in which it cannot share. In the French Revolution the majority, calling itself "the People," deliberately endeavored to destroy the higher type, and something of the same sort was, in a measure, done after the American Revolution by the expulsion of the Loyalists and the confiscation of their lands.
> 
> ...


Do I have a second?

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Relayer_
> 
> Some that may be gone for good (or almost):
> 
> ...


I wonder, does anyone name their sons Gay anymore?










*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## stache (Oct 1, 2004)

Lets hope not.


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Gervaise
Morrowbie


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:I wonder, does anyone name their sons Gay anymore?


It still wouldn't be as bad as someone with [pick a forename] B[enjamin, etc] Gay. (I've seen this more than once. What were the parents thinking?).


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
> What is prompting people to suddenly name children Madison and Camden? The film Splash? I think that was the first time I'd heard Madison used as a first name.


I think you're right. It was the film Splash. That movie came out in 1984, and then in 1985 for the first time the name Madison was in the top 1000 most popular baby names for girls. Since then it's just become more and more popular; it's been in the top 10 for the last eight years.

I never realized where parents got that name. It was a _joke_ from a _movie_. The mermaid had no name, so she glanced up and purloined the name Madison _from a street sign_. Now there are thousands of little girls _named after a joke about a street sign_.

Edit: I do have an ancestor named Madison Jordan, but he was male and born almost 200 years ago in Virginia.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by rojo_
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not to be terribly elitist, but Madison is a name that people choose because they think that it is trad, when they themselves are not.

My wife belongs to a forum of NYC monthers that are so pompous they make us (at AAAC) look like hippies - the UB. they refer to names like Madison and Mckensie as names white trash take because they think it sounds classy. historically, it was very trad for people to name their daughters these names, if that happened to be a real family name - the mother's maiden name, for instance.


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

My middle name is Eugene, after my godfather.

But I do think Gay and Hortense are gone for good.


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

I can see possibly why the name Gay is no longer used but why Hortense?

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by LabelKing_
> 
> I can see possibly why the name Gay is no longer used but why Hortense?
> 
> ...


I would suggest that any girl's name with the word "whore" in it is not the best choice.


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by globetrotter_
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Hortense seems like a unisex name.

If I had children, I'd name them Myron Hortense Ducaloc.

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

I'm astonished by how far Mary has plummeted. Perhaps some of these are ending up as middle names now?


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

> quote:Hortense seems like a unisex name.


Let us not forget the protagonist of "An American Tragedy" both fell in love with and murdered the dark-haired Hortense Briggs...

BTW -- my maternal grandfather's given name was Otis. Not a name one often sees outside of elevators.


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## Des Esseintes (Aug 16, 2005)

My top three

male:
Osbert
Tristan
Evelyn

female:
Maud
Fenella
Marigold (you know, as in "We named her because we hoped she would...")

By the way, I alwasy found the name Ermenegildo (as in Zegna) quite intriguing... it sounds very medieval to me although it probably isn't

dE

"...there is a difference between an urn and a chamber pot..."


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Des Esseintes_
> 
> My top three
> 
> ...


I've known three Tristans and two Mauds.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Des Esseintes_
> 
> My top three
> 
> ...


"Tristan" is one of those names that might become in with a vengeance if, say, next season's OC has a character with that name.

Isolde, I think, is gone for good.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by globetrotter_
> 
> not to be terribly elitist, but Madison is a name that people choose because they think that it is trad, when they themselves are not.
> 
> My wife belongs to a forum of NYC monthers that are so pompous they make us (at AAAC) look like hippies - the UB. they refer to names like Madison and Mckensie as names white trash take because they think it sounds classy. historically, it was very trad for people to name their daughters these names, if that happened to be a real family name - the mother's maiden name, for instance.


You're absolutely right. Names researchers (and yes, there is such a thing) will tell you that first name trends trickle down from the upper classes to the lower classes.

Using a last name as a first name, like Blaine or Foster "sounds posh" to many people. I can see an actual family name being used, but the Madisons/McKenzies/Taylors etc. aren't. This trend really didn't manifest itself so obviously until the yuppified 80s. Did you ever hear of many little girls called Alexis before Dynasty came out?

Top US girls' names, 2004

Emily 
Emma 
Madison 
Olivia 
Hannah 
Abigail 
Isabella 
Ashley 
Samantha 
Elizabeth 
Alexis 
Sarah 
Grace 
Alyssa 
Sophia

UK Top 10, 2004
Emily 
Ellie 
Jessica 
Sophie 
ChloÃ« 
Lucy 
Olivia 
Charlotte 
Katie 
Megan

*"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

[OT]I don't mean to be contentious, but I've always found the term "White T****" somewhat disturbing. I find it particularly curious that in this instance it's being applied to people who are ostensibly attempting to secure a more positive image and life for their children -- albeit naively, and through something as superficial as a name. It just seems a bit harsh to characterize such people as "trash".[/OT]


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_
> 
> [OT]I don't mean to be contentious, but I've always found the term "White T****" somewhat disturbing. I find it particularly curious that in this instance it's being applied to people who are ostensibly attempting to secure a more positive image and life for their children -- albeit naively, and through something as superficial as a name. It just seems a bit harsh to characterize such people as "trash".[/OT]


Good God Almighty, J-Homes! Don't start in on "white trash." There was a tremendous dust-up nearly a year ago, in the pre-Interchange days, over the use and meaning of that enduring, if not endearing, epithet. Please, let that particular sleeping dog - a flea-bitten mongrel if ever there was one - lie.

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd search it, but I can't. I suppose in the end, the conclusion was "free speech" and all that. That's fine, I was just (politely, I thought) asking for a little consideration and thoughtfulness about a term some are offended by. Is it really so difficult to reconcile 'freedom of speech' and 'civility'?


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Des Esseintes_
> 
> My top three
> 
> ...


I think (was told once) that Ermenegildo is the Italian equivalent of Herman.

Joe


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> I've known three Tristans and two Mauds.


Tristan (and numerous alternate spellings thereof) has for some reason been making a comeback in the last couple decades. (The Name Voyager shows "Tristan" going from not even in the top 1000 in the 1960s to 116 by 2004.)


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## Vettriano Man (Jun 30, 2005)

I have never come across these two christian names - Heber Hughes - given to my late father's brother. If ever I have a daughter I would like her to be named - India.

My favourite male christian name is - Archibald - which does seem to be making a comeback now.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_
> 
> [OT]I don't mean to be contentious, but I've always found the term "White T****" somewhat disturbing. I find it particularly curious that in this instance it's being applied to people who are ostensibly attempting to secure a more positive image and life for their children -- albeit naively, and through something as superficial as a name. It just seems a bit harsh to characterize such people as "trash".[/OT]


I was in that fight, and it was grim.

But really, that is just such an ugly, cruel term. I'm all for free speach, but I think people who use it in earnest are revealing something very unpleasant about themselves.


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## bosthist (Apr 4, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Brownshoe_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Brownshoe:

I completely agree with you. I've long had a quote in my head, which I believe comes from the Italian social philosopher Antonio Gramsci, "In every word is a conception of the world." Unpacking the assumptions which would lead somone to use the phrase "white trash" is unpleasant.

By the way, I haven't been able to track down a citation for that quote, so any help as to its origins would be great. If it is something I made up myself, I will take full credit.

Regards,

Charles

p.s. Yes, Gramsci was a Marxist so all of you conserative types can automatically dimiss him. You might want to take a look at his thoughts on "cultural hegemony" however, because I think it explains a lot about the United States.


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by bosthist_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Charles:

I believe you're referring to this passage from the chapter "Some Preliminary Points of Reference" in _The Study of Philosophy_:



> quote:If it is true that every language contains the elements of a conception of the world and of a culture, it could also be true that from anyone's language one can assess the greater or lesser complexity of his conception of the world


Recommending Gramsci on hegemony? Good lord, that's optimistic.

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

How about Humbert?

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LabelKing_
> 
> How about Humbert?
> 
> ...


It would be terrible to saddle a man with that name; the awful jokes would drive him to drink or murder. . . .

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Another name I like but I have never seen anywhere is Octave. As in ocave Mirbeau, a male name.

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## bosthist (Apr 4, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
> 
> Charles:
> 
> ...


I'm just throwing hegemony out into the mix. We all can't just provide links to the luminaries of lewrockwell.com, which, after reading some of the articles there, I'm guessing is hosted in Sierra Leone.

Thanks for clearing up my fogginess on the paraphrase of something I read c. 1990.

Back to names: daughter of bosthist was almost named Thisbe, but market research revealed strong antipathy. And some family names from the not so distant past: Myrtle Minerva, Oral Seville, Hubert Arthur, Alma, Edwris.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_
> 
> [OT]I don't mean to be contentious, but I've always found the term "White T****" somewhat disturbing. I find it particularly curious that in this instance it's being applied to people who are ostensibly attempting to secure a more positive image and life for their children -- albeit naively, and through something as superficial as a name. It just seems a bit harsh to characterize such people as "trash".[/OT]


Yes, you're right.

I didn't really notice that reference, and didn't mean to seem complicit in the use of that term.

At the same time, it IS true that names "trickle down", classwise, then drop off the radar for awhile when that cycle ends. Since there are many more middle class folks and people of modest means than upper class socialites, the most popular names become TOO popular eventually and develop a backlash. This happens over and over again.

Pop music trickles up, though.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

My grandfather was named *Oliver*, my father is *Norman* (a name I share). My mother's middle name is *Edna*; her mother's name was *Eunice*. My wife's grandmother was *Ida Minnie*.

My daughters are named:

Haydon Aisling (Haydon is a family name)
Molly Katherine (Katherine is a family name)
Claire Evelyn (we just liked it)

Molly Katherine goes by the full name, the other two just by their first names.


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by bosthist_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your paraphrase is far preferable to Gramsci's phrase. It elegantly distills the essence from his dialectical trope, and transposes the philosophical meme to the poetic. "In every word is a conception of the world" sounds like something Wallace Stevens might write, akin to to his placing a jar on a Tennessee hilltop, which then "took dominion everywhere."

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
> 
> Your paraphrase is far preferable to Gramsci's phrase. It elegantly distills the essence from his dialectical trope, and transposes the philosophical meme to the poetic.


My cats name is Mittens


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## Chris Despos (Nov 30, 2005)

> quote:My brother is Cedric. I've only met one other.


While dining in Dallas our waiter was Cedric. Probably 30ish. My first encounter with a Cedric.

My cousins name is Cyril. Is known by Cy.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

When my daughter was born, 17 years ago the name Emma was not in fashion, now it is. She thinks it is because the baby girl on friends was named Emma, I think things just come back around. My name has never been overly popular, if there were more than one Joel in a place I was in at any time I was always surprised. While I hear it more now it is still not common, and it used to be a Jewish first name, not so anymore.

guit


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## romafan (Apr 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Chris Despos_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know a couple of Cy's, but they are both Cyrus. 
My wife's family is filled with some out of fashion names: Grenville, Tower, Boulton, Barstow, Georgia, Theodora...


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## WisBadger77 (Jun 12, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by The Gabba Goul_
> 
> Uncommon names are cool...
> 
> ...


Some people watch The Godfather too much.


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## WisBadger77 (Jun 12, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
> 
> Oscar. There is a lamentable dearth of Oscars. I blame it all on that damn "Weiner Wagon."
> 
> "There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


My grandma's dear brother was named Oscar. RIP. I've met few like him.


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## WisBadger77 (Jun 12, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Srynerson_
> 
> Here's a fun item on the same topic (click "Launch Name Voyager"): https://babynamewizard.com/namevoyager/
> 
> If you have Java installed, you can get a graph of the popularity of various names since 1880. What's particularly interesting is to look at the influence of presidents on baby names over the past century. Punch in Theodore, William, Woodrow, Warren, Calvin, Franklin, Dwight, and Lyndon and check out the placement of the spikes. John was already in the top 5 in the 1950s, so JFK's subsequent election couldn't have much effect on it. However, it is interesting that Truman had no effect on Harry/Harold. And after LBJ, presidents no longer produce any spike associated with their names. Indeed, if you check Richard, Gerald, James/Jimmy, Ronald, George, and William/Bill, you'll often find the name declined in popularity subsequent to the respective president's election.


In some circles Reagan is a popular girls name.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by WisBadger77_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


True, but is that the result of the president or of the popularity of using what are traditionally surnames as first names for girls (e.g., "Madison").


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Chris Despos_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That age would correspond perfectly with the peak of "Cedric"'s popularity (reaching 245 in the 1970s).


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## kabert (Feb 6, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by queueball_
> 
> I named my son Duke. It's his middle name but that's what we call him. It's a nod to my mom as it is her maiden name. We were a little self-conscious about it for a while but either everyone really likes it or they are excellent actors.


A family friend is named "Young Duke." That is his actual name (though he goes by YD). It is a family name that has a long history. A Southern Maryland family.

By the way, regarding South Carolina names, I know someone from an old Charleston family whose first name is Ravenel. A fantastic name IMO. His wife is a Southern belle with a bit of a Southern accent - - to hear her say his name -- "Oh Ravenel, dear" -- is priceless.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by WisBadger77_
> 
> In some circles Reagan is a popular girls name.


Kennedy, too.


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## bosthist (Apr 4, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oddly enough there don't seem to be any little girls named Nixon.

Daughter of bosthist's name is Sadie Caroline, which makes people think of great aunts and grandmothers. It seems to fit her.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by bosthist_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lovely name, beautiful child.

Our 4-year-old is named Owen. We didn't realize that the name was getting so popular. My wife absolutely refused to consider Arthur, with a vehemence I found a little insulting.


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## Geoff Gander (Apr 4, 2007)

Hi all,

I happened across this old thread and found it interesting. My wife and I prefer older names, and made a point of only considering those that did not appear on the Top 40.

Hence, our sons are named Ansel and Thorne Eliot - both names having seen much more use in the early 1900s. One could almost imagine them running about with Bertie Wooster et al :icon_smile: 

Geoff (another less common name these days, especially with my spelling)

PS - For what it's worth, my grandfathers were named Richard Frederick and William Richard, and my father is named Jeremy (not too many of those, I would imagine)


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## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

Having just finished "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail" is jokingly suggested my grandson be named accordingly (and no, not Thompson).

My grandaughter Katja.

None of the above have any family connection on either side.

-common M


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

We tend toward "old" names as well for our kids:
Florian
Mathias (latin spelling)
Cecilia
Genevieve
Anastasia

Next up, if it's a boy, will probably be Cyril.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Avril
Tad
Stanislus


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

I know a person who's first and middle names are Elliot Bismarck. Not many of them around.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Bo Diddley's name at his birth in 1928 in McComb, Mississippi was Otha Ellas Bates McDaniel.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Check out the names on the list of high school sophmores in Oklahoma from the 1920s. One of my great aunts is listed. Not many names you see much anymore.

https://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/ok/okmulgee/school/gusher1923-1.txt


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

my step grandma's name is Harriota (sp?).


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## Jolly Roger (Apr 26, 2007)

My grandparents:

Roger William & Josephine Barbara
Victor Kent & Gladys Irene




Roger is not too popular these days, according to that Name Voyager thing:



It looks like my dad may have the ultimate in names that used to be extremely popular but are now out of fashion:


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## hcivic91 (Aug 29, 2006)

I am thankful for the resurection of this thread. 6 months ago my wife and I had a baby, after much debate we decided to name her Geneva. My wife studied in Switzerland and I visited some 40 weeks before the birth or our daughter.

Among the reasons we chose the name was the sort of throwback feel it kind-of has. While I quite like the name I continue to harbor a little nervousnes about it. Of course our family says it great but I would like a little disinterested input. So gents please level with me how does _Geneva Marie_ strike you?

thanks much,
J


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## Jolly Roger (Apr 26, 2007)

hcivic91 said:


> _Geneva Marie_


Very pretty!


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Go all the way with Geneve Marie.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Jolly Roger said:


> Very pretty!


+1...


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Pretty typical Irish-Catholic names in my family: Jack, Danny, Robert, Michael, Patrick (several) James, John, Ed, Paul, and Francis for the men, and Mary, Frances, Maggie, Rose, Kathleen etc. for the women. The only really uncommon names in my family are Eunice and Ursula.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

How shocking!


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Jolly Roger said:


> My grandparents:
> 
> Roger William & Josephine Barbara
> Victor Kent & Gladys Irene
> ...


Good to know who's your daddy, eh?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Roberta


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

VS said:


> Top US girls' names, 2004
> 
> Emily
> Emma
> ...


I have a friend with a daughter who's about 8 now named Olivia. I didn't realize it was so popular now.

I've got a friend named Abigail.

I stand by my claim that Elizabeth is a great name. Simply because she can be Elizabeth, Liz, Beth, or go by her middle name (or variations). And because Elizabeth Hurley is hot.


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## Jolly Roger (Apr 26, 2007)

FrankDC said:


> Good to know who's your daddy, eh?


It sure ain't you, Francine.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Jolly Roger said:


> It sure ain't you, Francine.


That was funny,Thanks for making me laugh this morning,Roger!


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

crazyquik said:


> I have a friend with a daughter who's about 8 now named Olivia. I didn't realize it was so popular now.
> 
> I've got a friend named Abigail.
> 
> I stand by my claim that Elizabeth is a great name. Simply because she can be Elizabeth, Liz, Beth, or go by her middle name (or variations). And because Elizabeth Hurley is hot.


+1 re Elizabeth


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## Harry96 (Aug 3, 2005)

In my opinion, odd spellings of traditional names are usually worse than unusual names. I have a friend whose middle name, if I remember correctly, is "Robertt." Yes -- with two ts. When he told me, I couldn't resist asking whether he'd ever asked his parents whether that's a typo on his birth certificate. 

I have a female friend named Caradee. I really like that name; it's unusual, but I think it's quite pretty. 

I gave the Sarah Silverman Show a try for a couple of weeks when it debuted, but I quickly gave up on it because it was awful. One of the few things I laughed at was a skit where Sarah went to jail, and one of her cellmates informed her that she had named her daughter "Facetious."


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

EliSabeth is far superior to EliZabeth.

Karl


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## Tom Bell-Drier (Mar 1, 2006)

I have a friend whos sister`s middle name is withany,not the middle name his parents intended for her .

What occoured was when his father went to register the birth at the registry office, as you are obliged to do by law in britain ,as the registrar was filling out the birth certificate the father told the person her name is Anne with an e the registrar miss interpreted this to be ann withany the gentleman in question then left with the birth cerificate without checking it and filed it away. the mistake only came to light later when the child was registered with a doctor and a birth certificate was required to register.


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## Benjamin.65 (Nov 1, 2006)

rojo said:


> My grandfather was named Percy. Top _that_.


a diminutive or a proper name?

Cheers,

Ben


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## Benjamin.65 (Nov 1, 2006)

Brownshoe said:


> Beat me to it, Coolidge!
> 
> I have always found something unaccountably sexy about traditional German names like Ingrid, Gretchen, Ilsa, Claudia, Heidi. Just typing that list conjures visions of a pillow fight in an all-girls academy nestled in the Swiss Alps...


To the German ear (particularly the Swiss German ear), Gretchen is as sexy sounding as Brunhilde. But I find both to be compelling.:aportnoy:


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