# What to pair with a brown pinstripe suit?



## Magicman (Oct 6, 2005)

I recently won a Polo Chocolate Brown pinstripe suit and it is my first in this color range. I am interested in attaining some advice on shirt colors and ties to pair with it. The pin on the suit is actually a multi-stripe with a bolder off white stripe followed by a fainter muted stripe of the same color in between the bold pins. I am thinking of a cream colored plain shirt with moderate spread and a dark brown tie with a cream motif (non striped, perhaps floral). What other options might you suggest and what color range of shoes would you pair with the suit? I love having an excuse to buy another pair of shoes!


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

I need to see a picture, but I am thinking blue...


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## Magicman (Oct 6, 2005)

I will try to upload a picture when the suit arrives. It should be mid-week. It is a dark chocolate brown. I do like the look of blue and brown together, too.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Black shoes


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Solid Cream/ Ecru, Light Blue, and Light Pink, and probably light Yellow as well, should all be fine. You could also use a white base check shirt with complementing colors in the checks.

Cordovan


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

Brown and pink did not seem to test well to my audience of teen-agers in a treatment facility even though I like the combination. However, brown and shades of white such as ecru and light yellows do. Kids are very candid about these things.


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

I do brown and pink with some degree of frequency. One of my friends makes a comment about it every time he sees it - but I think it can be striking.

Cordovan


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## Magicman (Oct 6, 2005)

Scoundrel said:


> Black shoes


I may be a little slow on the uptake, but are you serious? I rarely wear black shoes except with dark charcoal and with navy and tans I wear brown. My shoes, however are of the lighter/chestnut variety of brown. Should I be looking to go into a dark chocolate brown with the shoes?


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Naa - I would go with a lighter color - perhaps chestnut.

Cordovan


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

The right shade of brown and black can be a striking combination.


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Do you have any pics with successful pairing of black and brown? I never liked the look from what I've seen.

Cordovan


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## Magicman (Oct 6, 2005)

Cordovan said:


> Naa - I would go with a lighter color - perhaps chestnut.
> 
> Cordovan


I have chestnut shoes- AE Fairfax, that I like very much. I look forward to the arrival of the suit so that I can pair them up and take a look. I've seen black shoes worn with brown but always thought it just didn't look quite right.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Cordovan said:


> Do you have any pics with successful pairing of black and brown? I never liked the look from what I've seen.
> 
> Cordovan


This isn't one of my favorite examples, but here's an AA illustration from Will's blog that shows it being done:

https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2007/11/city-suits.html


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks for the link. Does look better than what I normally see, but still don't like the look.

Cordovan


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

What I'm picturing in my head is an almost charcoal brown with black shoes. The suit's dark enough that a shoe in EG's dark oak would be too similar in tone, and a light brown would put too much emphasis on the feet. Though I doubt my written description alone is a very convincing argument.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Cordovan said:


> Light Blue, and Light Pink
> Cordovan


My main thoughts as well. A strong mid-pink could also work, very hard to say without exactly knowing the shade of brown.



Scoundrel said:


> Black shoes


I agree, too, it can work well. Either that or a very very dark brown. I know chestnut could work, so could some other mid-browns... Wouldn't go for a light brown though.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

I suggest a pair of brown brogue country shoes from Trickers, a bow tie in a red colour, and a tweed cap. That would make the lounge suit perfect for a weekend in the country - that is about the only proper place you should wear it after all. That said you could just wear it at home, or for lazy weekend brunches in the city with derbies (including monks). 

Needless to say it is about as suitable for work as a track suit.


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## Magicman (Oct 6, 2005)

Sator said:


> I suggest a pair of brown brogue country shoes from Trickers, a bow tie in a red colour, and a tweed cap. That would make the lounge suit perfect for a weekend in the country - that is about the only proper place you should wear it after all. That said you could just wear it at home, or for lazy weekend brunches in the city with derbies (including monks).
> 
> Needless to say it is about as suitable for work as a track suit.


Wow. I didn't think that in the US a brown suit was really in poor taste in the workplace. Why is it wrong? I wouldn't wear solid black because it's drab and looks like funeral attire, but why the hostility toward brown being worn for work? I purchased it mainly as a summer suit because it is a linen and wool combination and did intend for it to be used primarily for summer outings. I was becoming a little bored buying navy and charcoal and variations of these all of the time.


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## obiwan (Feb 2, 2007)

Magicman said:


> Wow. I didn't think that in the US a brown suit was really in poor taste in the workplace. Why is it wrong? I wouldn't wear solid black because it's drab and looks like funeral attire, but why the hostility toward brown being worn for work? I purchased it mainly as a summer suit because it is a linen and wool combination and did intend for it to be used primarily for summer outings. I was becoming a little bored buying navy and charcoal and variations of these all of the time.


No Brown in Town!

Brown is for Farmers! (I've never seen a farmer wear a suit)

Don't let them bust your chops, brown suits are fine for work, even in the city! I have a couple of pin stripes, a window pane and a nail head. Never gave it a second thought about wearing either of them to work, and yes I work in a city, downtown financial district.


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## arnaud (Apr 10, 2007)

Please: yellow and pink are for women... Bold French blue mini herringbone shirt, chestnut wingtips. No apologies: be the man.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Some women, particularly younger ones, find traditional wingtips a bit too fancy, dare I say effeminate, and favor plain, unbrogued Kenneth Coles. Better donate those wings to your nearest thrift.


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## Shneider (Mar 21, 2008)

Magicman said:


> Wow. I didn't think that in the US a brown suit was really in poor taste in the workplace. Why is it wrong? I wouldn't wear solid black because it's drab and looks like funeral attire, but why the hostility toward brown being worn for work? I purchased it mainly as a summer suit because it is a linen and wool combination and did intend for it to be used primarily for summer outings. I was becoming a little bored buying navy and charcoal and variations of these all of the time.


Enjoy your new brown suit to the office. If it fits you well and you feel good about how you look in it, paired with some of the nice ideas mentioned above, you will look great!


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

Sator said:


> I suggest a pair of brown brogue country shoes from Trickers, a bow tie in a red colour, and a tweed cap. That would make the lounge suit perfect for a weekend in the country - that is about the only proper place you should wear it after all. That said you could just wear it at home, or for lazy weekend brunches in the city with derbies (including monks).
> 
> Needless to say it is about as suitable for work as a track suit.


Funny, Ronald Reagan felt very much at home in a brown suit. Given the job he had when wearing it, I suspect the rest of us shouldn't feel afraid of a brown suit at work either.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

There's a reason for the old dictums, brown just isn't as sharp - it's not a business colour. In some industries, you can wear it. There are always exceptions. In most others, it will look incongruous and will be a poor choice if you are trying to present the most professional image.


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## misterdonuts (Feb 15, 2008)

Magicman, I must confess that I gave up on my chocolate brown pencil stripe SB suit because, essentially, I struggled with a question similar to yours and never found answers that seemed adequate or comfortable to me. Just as a premise, I am not in banking and routinely disregard the no-brown-in-town rule, namely I like wearing brown shoes as much as wearing black ones.

About 12-15 years ago, I fell in love with a fabric bunch that felt wonderful and had a lustrous sheen to it, not quite like mohair but a more subtle sheen. It was an 11 oz Loro Piana bunch, and IIRC was a Tasmanian Super 120s. So I had a 3 piece SB suit made up with the fabric. It turns out that the fabric does not really perform as well as I expected, but the bigger issue was finding a combination that I felt was viable, ie, in which I felt comfortable. Obviously, this is my personal take on my suit rather than yours, but I never found a comfortable "formula". Now that I think about it, I believe that it may be the only suit for which I never received a compliment...

A couple of years ago, I just gave up and decided that I don't like the suit. I took it apart to gain a little understanding of how coats are constructed and kept the buttons as spares. FWIW, I have always enjoyed taking things apart, so it was fun. 

I hope that you will find a happier ending!!


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## Magicman (Oct 6, 2005)

Thanks for all the replies. I will wear it and wear it proudly. I don't work in banking, accounting, the stock market or the legal field. I work in Portland and it is hardly the sartorial capitol of the world. I am excited about the suit: Brand New Polo Blue Label (made by Corneliani)-fabric is a blend of wool and linen. For just over $200.00 US, I think I've done quite well on it!


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Sator said:


> I suggest a pair of brown brogue country shoes from Trickers, a bow tie in a red colour, and a tweed cap. That would make the lounge suit perfect for a weekend in the country - that is about the only proper place you should wear it after all. That said you could just wear it at home, or for lazy weekend brunches in the city with derbies (including monks).
> 
> Needless to say it is about as suitable for work as a track suit.


Comments like these are what we need more of, as we trace the origin and history of our clothes in determining the way to dress with class and elegance.

But why was brown always a country color? Why shouldn't it be suitable for city and work wear? If the lounge suit became acceptable for use in the city, would not the same apply to brown suits?

Cordovan


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## HISMES PARIS (Mar 26, 2008)

Don't listen to all these adages. What they lack in sartorial significance, they attempt to make up for in wit or rhyme. Brown, especially with a pinstripe, can definitely be formal enough for work situations. I wouldn't wear it to a formal social occasion, but for work, especially to break up a closet full of navys and charcoals, it can do wonders.

I have a grayish brown John Varvatos 2BSB with a subtle salmon pinstripe, and although I haven't found the perfect tie color for it yet (suggestions?), it looks very sharp with a variety of shirt colors, especially cream, pink, and lighter blues. Enjoy your brown suit; all the better if it's to the chagrin of your charcoal-besotted neighbors.


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## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

I don't see how a brown pinstripe suit would be anything other than urban businesswear in this day and age. I can't picture myself (or any other fellow) wearing such a garment to, say, go to a flea market or to antique shops.


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## ComboOrgan (Aug 28, 2006)

For evenings out I like to pair my brown suit with black shoes, white shirt, and a skinny black tie. It's about the only time I mix black and brown, and I think it works quite nicely.

I think the look is very '60s mod.


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

ComboOrgan said:


> For evenings out I like to pair my brown suit with black shoes, white shirt, and a skinny black tie. It's about the only time I mix black and brown, and I think it works quite nicely.
> 
> I think the look is very '60s mod.


Mind posting pics?

Cordovan


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## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

Maybe it's just because I am 27 and work for a TV network and not a conservative bank or law firm, but I see nothing wrong with wearing a brown pinstripe suit to work. I definitely see it as a nice change of pace from the same old charcoal and navy. 
But then again, in my field, people tend to dress a little bit more trendier and less conservative.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

LD111134 said:


> I don't see how a brown pinstripe suit would be anything other than urban businesswear in this day and age. I can't picture myself (or any other fellow) wearing such a garment to, say, go to a flea market or to antique shops.


I don't see how a brown pinstripe suit would be anything other than smart casual wear in this or any other age. I can picture myself (or any other fellow) wearing such a garment to, say, go to a flea market or to antique shops.

:icon_smile:


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Cordovan said:


> But why was brown always a country color? Why shouldn't it be suitable for city and work wear? If the lounge suit became acceptable for use in the city, would not the same apply to brown suits?


Some things just "work". You can try and try to make a brown coat look like city wear and somehow it will always look more casual like you have worn your golf clothes to work. Even Reagan looked like a retired old fellow who had dropped in on the way home from the golf club to say hello. At his age, I guess you are allowed to look that way.

I encourage anyone here in a position to do so to send their workers home if they turn up dressed in a brown country suit. Tell them to return only once properly dressed for work :devil:


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Although I love your attitude, I believe you would have been saying the same thing about the lounge suit in 1950. 

So although I label you as eccentric (not sure I would wear it to work, but would not mind if others less style conscious wore it), I still think that it's wonderful eccentricity and wish there were more on this forum with the same dedication to old world sartorial class.

Cordovan


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

I must say that I love the idea of the casual lounge suit. I love brown lounge suits for that reason, just as I love tweed lounges, or lighter coloured linen/cotton for the summer. The less smooth the fabric the better for this purpose. Checks, plaids and colourful overchecks are all thoroughly welcome. Throw in a colourful, boldly patterned bow tie, and equally lively shirt, socks, full brogues and spectator shoes. The more fun it looks the better. 

It's such as shame we have forgotten the casualness of the lounge suit. In America they are traditionally called a "sack suit" for a reason - because it was meant to have all the formality of a potato sack. I think it is time we all loosened up and had more fun with this garment.


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## ComboOrgan (Aug 28, 2006)

Cordovan said:


> Mind posting pics?
> 
> Cordovan


Sure.

Just took these


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## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

Cordovan said:


> Although I love your attitude, I believe you would have been saying the same thing about the lounge suit in 1950.
> 
> So although I label you as eccentric (not sure I would wear it to work, but would not mind if others less style conscious wore it), I still think that it's wonderful eccentricity and wish there were more on this forum with the same dedication to old world sartorial class.
> 
> Cordovan


So for example, you would consider someone wearing a Hugo Boss or Dolce & Gabbana brown pinstripe suit to less style-conscious than you? I find that hard to believe.


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## topbroker (Jul 30, 2006)

DocHolliday said:


> The right shade of brown and black can be a striking combination.


In either direction; I have worn medium brown captoes with black trousers and black-dominant sportcoat. Liked the effect a lot.


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

With that low, whale of a tie knot, certainly.

Actually, I meant style-conscious in the sense of following the (in)famous sartorial rules that govern our dress which apparently are debatable whether they still dictate 'no brown in town'. Since you mention HB and D&G, it is likely that those wearing such garments are *generally* less style conscious - perhaps fashion conscious, but not necessarily style conscious in the sense that we understand and use the words here.

Different note:

ComboOrgan,

Thanks for the pics. Can't see the black tie so well, but doesn't look as bad as I imagined it. What about a close-up pic with the shoes and trousers together?

Thanks

Cordovan


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## topbroker (Jul 30, 2006)

Magicman said:


> Thanks for all the replies. I will wear it and wear it proudly. I don't work in banking, accounting, the stock market or the legal field. I work in Portland and it is hardly the sartorial capitol of the world. I am excited about the suit: Brand New Polo Blue Label (made by Corneliani)-fabric is a blend of wool and linen. For just over $200.00 US, I think I've done quite well on it!


You did great. Don't mind the pundits; they just enjoy their punditry, as you should enjoy your suit.


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## ComboOrgan (Aug 28, 2006)

Cordovan said:


> ComboOrgan,
> 
> Thanks for the pics. Can't see the black tie so well, but doesn't look as bad as I imagined it. What about a close-up pic with the shoes and trousers together?
> 
> ...


I think I already found it excessive to get dressed just to take a picture in front of a mirror. I don't think I'll do it again


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## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

topbroker said:


> You did great. Don't mind the pundits; they just enjoy their punditry, as you should enjoy your suit.


Amen.


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Sorry - didn't mean to make you get all dress up (or down for Sator :devil just for me.

Cordovan


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## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

Sator said:


> I encourage anyone here in a position to do so to send their workers home if they turn up dressed in a brown country suit. Tell them to return only once properly dressed for work :devil:


I always thought that the "country suit" was the tweedy, rough fabric kind of garment that echoes "Brideshead Revisited", "Jeeves and Wooster" and "All Creatures Great and Small", i.e. garments specifically evocative of the upper/upper-middle classes in England in the late 19th through the first half of the 20th Century.

I wouldn't think that a suit would be "country" (and thus inappropriate for business wear) simply because it's brown - I regularly wear to my office a single-breasted Hickey Freeman Madison with brown nailhead with a rust windowpane. I can't envision this as weekend togs. On the other hand, if "brown country suit refers to a "tweedy" garment of coarser fabric that also happens to be brown, then I agree that this is not really business wear.


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## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

Cordovan said:


> With that low, whale of a tie knot, certainly.
> 
> Actually, I meant style-conscious in the sense of following the (in)famous sartorial rules that govern our dress which apparently are debatable whether they still dictate 'no brown in town'. Since you mention HB and D&G, it is likely that those wearing such garments are *generally* less style conscious - perhaps fashion conscious, but not necessarily style conscious in the sense that we understand and use the words here.
> 
> Cordovan


You have a point, but isn't this Andy's Fashion Forum? Ok, Ok, I am not trying to argue or anything, but we obviously just have different tastes. You prefer a more old-fashioned, conservative look while I prefer a more modern, trendy look. In some workplaces, a brown pinstripe suit might not be acceptable, but in others, it could. It is not right or wrong, but just an opinion. 
With regards to the picture I posted, I would never wear my tie that low either, but I really like the suit.


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

LD111134 said:


> I always thought that the "country suit" was the tweedy, rough fabric kind of garment that echoes "Brideshead Revisited", "Jeeves and Wooster" and "All Creatures Great and Small", i.e. garments specifically evocative of the upper/upper-middle classes in England in the late 19th through the first half of the 20th Century.
> 
> I wouldn't think that a suit would be "country" (and thus inappropriate for business wear) simply because it's brown - I regularly wear to my office a single-breasted Hickey Freeman Madison with brown nailhead with a rust windowpane. I can't envision this as weekend togs. On the other hand, if "brown country suit refers to a "tweedy" garment of coarser fabric that also happens to be brown, then I agree that this is not really business wear.


If you do a search for posts by Sator, you'll understand his perspective. Worth a look IMO.

Cordovan


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

LD111134 said:


> I always thought that the "country suit" was the tweedy, rough fabric kind of garment that echoes "Brideshead Revisited", "Jeeves and Wooster" and "All Creatures Great and Small".
> 
> I wouldn't think that a suit would be "country" (and thus inappropriate for business wear) simply because it's brown - I regularly wear to my office a single-breasted Hickey Freeman Madison with brown nailhead with a rust windowpane. I can't envision this as weekend togs. On the other hand, if "brown country suit refers to a "tweedy" garment of coarser fabric that also happens to be brown, then I agree that this is not really business wear.


Even today in conservative circles in the City of London anything that is brown or which has any sort of check - window pane checks included - may cause you to be sent home to be told to return in proper work attire. Or else you may get snide comments like "off to the country are we?"


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

I should add that my idea of a nice casual brown lounge would be something in a fine flannel. I would love to drive out of town to some cosy country place to browse antique shops or stop for tea and scones. Very yummy.

Here are a couple of cloths perfect for such a thing from J&J Minnis:

https://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardyminnis/asp/catqu_view.asp?stki=940214204?
https://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardyminnis/asp/catqu_view.asp?stki=197863185?

I know most of you think I am mad, but once you get used to it, you feel very comfortable in it. Cosy, warm and elegant. It's a feel good thing. And in cold weather you will laugh at the people freezing their butts off in t-shirts and jeans.


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## misterdonuts (Feb 15, 2008)

topbroker said:


> You did great. Don't mind the pundits; they just enjoy their punditry, as you should enjoy your suit.


+10



Sator said:


> in conservative circles in the City of London


Well, that's just it, isn't it? There is the "rest" in the Square Mile and in Canary Wharf who could care less. The City has seen an enormous influx of Americans, French, Germans and Italians, not to mention the steady drip of Commonwealth folks. I routinely deal with ECM, DCM, corporate advisory and private banking guys in the City / Canary Wharf, and the diversity in dress is actually quite remarkable. The Continentals do not have much regard for or understanding of English rules of dress and the Americans have introduced the horrid notion of business casual to the City. I find it rather perplexing that whilst your style prescriptions seem to have profoundly old world values despite living in a new world country, you seem perfectly comfortable with looking to money lenders for style dictum, which seems very much at odds with old world values. But then, such is what makes life, including discussions like this, interesting, isn't it?


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Mine was a bland statement of fact. Nowhere do I elevate the dress of bankers in the City of London to some sort of godly status. 

Old world? New world? Who cares? - a brown suit just looks too casual and I really like that, provided it is in the right context.


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## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

misterdonuts said:


> +10
> 
> Well, that's just it, isn't it? There is the "rest" in the Square Mile and in Canary Wharf who could care less. The City has seen an enormous influx of Americans, French, Germans and Italians, not to mention the steady drip of Commonwealth folks. I routinely deal with ECM, DCM, corporate advisory and private banking guys in the City / Canary Wharf, and the diversity in dress is actually quite remarkable. The Continentals do not have much regard for or understanding of English rules of dress and the Americans have introduced the horrid notion of business casual to the City. I find it rather perplexing that whilst your style prescriptions seem to have profoundly old world values despite living in a new world country, you seem perfectly comfortable with looking to money lenders for style dictum, which seems very much at odds with old world values. But then, such is what makes life, including discussions like this, interesting, isn't it?


+1. While chaps in traditional merchant banking or investment banking (especially Oxbridge types) might have very strict sartorial standards, the worlds of capital markets and investment managment are much different and the sartorial standards are more relaxed (and the standards for back-office personnel even more so) - when I visit my firm's London office on Canary Wharf, I see men dressed every which way while on lunch break (including the dreaded square-toed shoes).

That said, I agree with Sator - he's not holding up the London investment banking types up as paragons of style, just stating that they traditionally have very conservative standards of dress that isn't necessarily representative of the rest of the London financial community.


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## HISMES PARIS (Mar 26, 2008)

Sator said:


> I should add that my idea of a nice casual brown lounge would be something in a fine flannel.
> 
> And in cold weather you will laugh at the people freezing their butts off in t-shirts and jeans.


Maybe I'm picking nits, but when do you get the opportunity to capitalize on the coziness of flannel, or to laugh at people freezing their butts off, in Sydney?


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## Magicman (Oct 6, 2005)

Sator said:


> Mine was a bland statement of fact. Nowhere do I elevate the dress of bankers in the City of London to some sort of godly status.
> 
> Old world? New world? Who cares? - a brown suit just looks too casual and I really like that, provided it is in the right context.


Sator,

I absolutely respect your knowledge and perspective on brown suits. I wish that our culture (United States) still accepted and promoted the wearing of suits for purposes other than business. In the area of the country that I live, I have to basically scour for opportunities to wear suits outside of work- weddings, theatre, opera, symphony, nice restaurants...anywhere else and it is horribly out of place. I'm all for a resurgance in the traditional style where I can take my wife to the country for a weekend and wear a suit. But as it stands now, I'd probably be assaulted or at least scoffed at by those wearing jeans and sneakers. As it stands, wearing my brown Polo suit to work will still be outdressing 99% of the 500+ employees of the hotel I work in, as sad as it sounds its a reality in many parts of the country.

On another note, isn't this perspective largely, if not entirely, British in nature? What do our Italian friends dictate as appropriate when it comes to this subject? What do business men wear in Rome, Milan, Naples and Florence?


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Your brown ... could be very varied. Brown is generally a very dark reddish blend, but could be purple-ish, or bluish, or ANYTHING ish. I would suggest you find out the specific version of brown and its stripes, then work outward.

As a guess at a reddish (warm) brown, with cream/white stripes, you could pair any light colored shirt. Especially yellow, cream, white. The remaining color spectrum will either bring the shirt out of the suit or set it back (pink fading into the reddish brown suit, green coming forward in contrast, etc).

DON'T wear a dark shirt on brown, unless you like that sort of effect. I think a dark shirt and a dark suit is just thoughtlessly 'artistic' more times than not. As for business, unless you work somewhere with a very tight ideal in clothes, brown is fine. It broke through a few years back.

The nice thing about brown/brown chalkstripes is that it is dark, allows lighter shirts to contrast brilliantly, and is subdued enough it will allow your tie to shine if your shirt is a conservative color. Nicely colorful while being subdued. Black suits are dreary, navy suits are a yawn unless pinstriped, grey is predictable, but the brown gives a mild complexity of color enthusing the eye.


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## misterdonuts (Feb 15, 2008)

Sator said:


> Mine was a bland statement of fact. Nowhere do I elevate the dress of bankers in the City of London to some sort of godly status.


I accept that your post specifically about the conservative characteristic of the City was made just as an aside, for the benefit of those that are not familiar with expectations at certain places within the City rather than a statement in support of your thesis that "it is about as suitable for work as a track suit" or "I encourage anyone here in a position to do so to send their workers home if they turn up dressed in a brown country suit. Tell them to return only once properly dressed for work."



Sator said:


> Old world? New world? Who cares?


Well, indeed.


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## GeorgePaul (Dec 15, 2007)

Sator said:


> I encourage anyone here in a position to do so to send their workers home if they turn up dressed in a brown country suit. Tell them to return only once properly dressed for work :devil:


I once told someone who was wearing a rumpled white tee shirt to not do that again and that shirts with collars were required. The sartorial standards were a bit different from those in London.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Magicman said:


> I wish that our culture (United States) still accepted and promoted the wearing of suits for purposes other than business. In the area of the country that I live, I have to basically scour for opportunities to wear suits outside of work- weddings, theatre, opera, symphony, nice restaurants...anywhere else and it is horribly out of place. I'm all for a resurgance in the traditional style where I can take my wife to the country for a weekend and wear a suit. But as it stands now, I'd probably be assaulted or at least scoffed at by those wearing jeans and sneakers. As it stands, wearing my brown Polo suit to work will still be outdressing 99% of the 500+ employees of the hotel I work in, as sad as it sounds its a reality in many parts of the country.
> 
> On another note, isn't this perspective largely, if not entirely, British in nature? What do our Italian friends dictate as appropriate when it comes to this subject? What do business men wear in Rome, Milan, Naples and Florence?


I sympathise greatly. Dress standards Down Under are actually often worse than in the US. I know I am being a bit radical by writing what I do. I am going against the grain, and I can see people are raising their eyebrows a bit.

But I have been very pleasantly surprised at how comfortable you can get wearing a casual lounge suit in social settings. Never have I been assaulted or received unfavourable remarks. Once you get used to it people take it for granted that this is how you dress. I find it particularly important to wear things that scream "casual" "I'm at play not at work" - items such as colourful bow ties and socks, spectator shoes, and brightly coloured shirts (pinks, lavenders for example) are a necessity.

I must admit I probably wouldn't wear a plain brown worsted casually myself either. I would want a check/plaid, or at least some surface interest eg flannel, a birds eye weave etc.

If there is a nice country destination with nice tea houses, antique stores etc you can get to for a weekend away, dressing nicely adds greatly to the experience. People treat you a lot more politely and everyone seems so much more relaxed when it comes to stopping and chatting to you. You start to see the world in a different light. It just makes it a lot more fun. But you do need to have a partner who wants to play along too. It's no good if she wants to just wear t-shirt and jeans.


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Sator said:


> But you do need to have a partner who wants to play along too. It's no good if she wants to just wear t-shirt and jeans.


And there's some of the trouble for some. For now, I have no such baggage.

Anyway, it's good to have at least one of your king around here.

Cheers,

Cordovan


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## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

Sator said:


> If there is a nice country destination with nice tea houses, antique stores etc you can get to for a weekend away, dressing nicely adds greatly to the experience. People treat you a lot more politely and everyone seems so much more relaxed when it comes to stopping and chatting to you. You start to see the world in a different light. It just makes it a lot more fun. But you do need to have a partner who wants to play along too. It's no good if she wants to just wear t-shirt and jeans.


+10, Sator. My girlfriend and I were just discussing the differences in our tastes in clothes. She's not "into" clothing _per se_, i.e. she enjoys dressing up on occasion and she always looks nice but she's not into fashion or does not take a great interest in shopping (a la "Sex in the City"). She tells me I look better without a tie, which she views as hipper and more youthful, while I wear a tie and tailored clothing to work even though my office is technically "business casual". Thus, when we're together on the weekends, I'll compromise and, say, wear jeans with a sportcoat or forgo a tie when we go out for an evening. However, it's a compromise I gladly make.


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

Sator said:


> I sympathise greatly. Dress standards Down Under are actually often worse than in the US. I know I am being a bit radical by writing what I do. I am going against the grain, and I can see people are raising their eyebrows a bit.
> 
> But I have been very pleasantly surprised at how comfortable you can get wearing a casual lounge suit in social settings. Never have I been assaulted or received unfavourable remarks. Once you get used to it people take it for granted that this is how you dress. I find it particularly important to wear things that scream "casual" "I'm at play not at work" - items such as colourful bow ties and socks, spectator shoes, and brightly coloured shirts (pinks, lavenders for example) are a necessity.
> 
> ...


Very true about how a suit can add to the experience. I make it a point to wear a jacket of some sort (although not usually a suit) when I fly, simply because you get treated with a great deal more respect and politeness.

While I am certain I am breaking a few rules, I often bring one of my casual lounge suits along on weekends away and vacations. I have a heavy, tweedy glen plaid and a heavy brown herringbone suit, both by Polo, that are very flexible so that I can wear them with traditional shirt and tie, or turtleneck, or wear the jackets separately when I'm travelling. The fabric also wears well for rough travel, and it's nice to be wearing a suit/jacket when walking into a nicer restaurant for lunch.

While I disagree about strictly wearing no brown for business, I wouldn't wear those suits to the office. I would wear my dark, dark, dark chocolate pinstripe Kiton (so dark it appears charcoal in many lights), or my very grey/brown (grey in most lights) nailhead Oxxford suit with a light navy windowpane to the office (and have). So, I think there might be a debate about what kind of 'brown' is really brown...


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

LD111134 said:


> My girlfriend ... tells me I look better without a tie, which she views as hipper and more youthful, while I wear a tie and tailored clothing to work even though my office is technically "business casual". Thus, when we're together on the weekends, I'll compromise and, say, wear jeans with a sportcoat or forgo a tie when we go out for an evening. However, it's a compromise I gladly make.


I am rather uncompromising in this matter (does that surprise anyone? :icon_smile_big. She has learned to accept that I wear ties to barbecues or the beach!

However, I do think that ties come in a range of formalities - like any other garment. Most ties you see being sold are meant for business. You actually have to hunt around a bit for ties which are casual. These are often made of wool, cashmere or linen which has less sheen than silk. Knit ties are also great. Bow ties are excellent and you can wear as colourful a tie as you wish casually.

I think we link in an Age of Anxiety when it comes to dressing. People are terrified of dressing like the aristocracy during the Reign of Terror after the French Revolution when excessive displays of fine dress could cause one to lose one's head. Today we have a Reign of Terror in that we are afraid that a tie and coat might cause us to be beaten up by a t-shirt wearing mob.

Fortunately, my rebellion against the state of dress today has only brought me positive experiences.


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## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

ChicagoTrad said:


> While I disagree about strictly wearing no brown for business, I wouldn't wear those suits to the office. I would wear my dark, dark, dark chocolate pinstripe Kiton (so dark it appears charcoal in many lights), or my very grey/brown (grey in most lights) nailhead Oxxford suit with a light navy windowpane to the office (and have). So, I think there might be a debate about what kind of 'brown' is really brown...


I wear my medium brown (no mistaking the color) nailhead suit with a rust windowpane from Hickey Freeman with a suede or silk-linen odd vest with notched lapels and either British tan Peal & Co. bluchers (yes derbies with a suit) or my chestnut brown AE Mora double-monkstraps. Then again, my office is business casual and I am really more or less on my own (the colleagues with whom I actually work are either in another building, or in New York, Charlotte, London or Tokyo, so they don't see me)...I can wear pretty much anything that I want.


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## misterdonuts (Feb 15, 2008)

Sator said:


> Today we have a Reign of Terror in that we are afraid that a tie and coat might cause us to be beaten up by a t-shirt wearing mob.
> 
> Fortunately, my rebellion against the state of dress today has only brought me positive experiences.


Based on the manner and tone in which you administer prescriptions, one would have thought that you may have suffered verbal as well as physical abuse on more than one occasion. It is evident that, fortunately, the t-shirt wearing mob has demonstrated respect, courtesy and tolerance towards you, whereas it is not immediately obvious that they are reciprocated. I hope that they are.


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

I have a heathered brown chalk-stripe flannel suit that is one of my favorites. I generally wear a pink, lavender or white shirt and Vass Budapesters in shell cordovan with it.

It absolutely gets more positive comments than any other suit in my wardrode and I think it is perfectly appropriate for office wear.

Older gentlemen smile and remark that the look is very "Reagan administration."


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## LD111134 (Dec 21, 2007)

Good point, Puffy. Ron was noted for his brown suits (always worn with a white linen "TV fold" pocket square).


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