# Share your favorite & least favorite music videos/performances



## Stubbly

A few of my favorites:

Robert Palmer - Addicted To Love 





Depeche Mode - Enjoy the Silence 





Michael Jackson - Billie Jean - The First Moonwalk





*One of the worst songs ever:* Sorry, I couldn't find a video.

The Trashwomen - I'm Trash


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## Shaver

Wow! I have heard much, *much*, worse than the Trashwomen. All that is wrong with that song is the ultra lo-fi production but that is, one presumes, the deliberate idiom. Here's something much better from the same genre (psychedelic, trash culture, rockabilly, surf style)

The Cramps - Can Your Pussy Do the Dog?





Poison Ivy, phew! What a thrilling lady. :thumbs-up:


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## Shaver

I hate this song with a passion.






Plus I despise nearly everything the Beatles or Led Zepplin ever released. These two groups represent the most over-rated dross, mainly enjoyed by people who do not really like music but just need some jumble to fill their heads and pass the time.

.
.
.
.
.


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## Snow Hill Pond

Shaver said:


> I hate this song with a passion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus I despise nearly everything the Beatles ... ever released.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .


Even the White Album?


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## SG_67

Perhaps not the best, but very nice.






Worst:


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## WouldaShoulda

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Even the White Album?


Especially the self-indulgent White Album!!

I kind of like "Cum on Eileen" though.


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## Chouan

Shaver said:


> I hate this song with a passion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus I despise nearly everything the Beatles or Led Zepplin ever released. These two groups represent the most over-rated dross, mainly enjoyed by people who do not really like music but just need some jumble to fill their heads and pass the time.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .


Strangely enough, I liked it at the time, but now I can't imagine why!


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## Snow Hill Pond

Chouan said:


> Strangely enough, I liked it at the time, but now I can't imagine why!


The tune is catchy.


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## Shaver

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Even the White Album?


There are very occasional moments within the Beatles career that are tolerable- the White Album includes most of them.


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## Snow Hill Pond

WouldaShoulda said:


> Especially the self-indulgent White Album!!


Self-indulgent rock stars? Perish the thought.


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## Shaver

^ Good call SHP.


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## Snow Hill Pond

Good? Bad? You decide:


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## Snow Hill Pond

Shaver said:


> ^ Good call SHP.


Thank you Shaver. And WS, sorry, it was a cheap shot I know, but I couldn't resist.


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## Shaver

A fine song, originally written by the sublime songwriter Brel, here marvelously re-worked by Walker.

Scott Walker's voice is a treasure. This song will always lift my mood.






They've forgotten the tune that their whiskey voice croaks

Splitting the night with the roar of their jokes


And they turn and they dance and they laugh and they lust

Till the rancid sound of the accordion bursts


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## Shaver

This beautiful song always shreds my heart. 








Here I am, here I am waiting to hold you.
Did I dream you dreamed about me?


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## WouldaShoulda

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Self-indulgent rock stars? Perish the thought.


I should have said "The execptionally self-indulgent White Album!!"


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## justonemore

while it's not my favorite genre of music nor is the video accurate in any real scientific sense, I think the 2 go together quite well & find the conclusion accurate.






not sure if it's working but I think I got it figured out.

Perhaps we can beseech Shaver to share a couple pointers as to direct posting of youtube videos?


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## Shaver

justonemore said:


> while it's not my favorite genre of music nor is the video accurate in any real scientific sense, I think the 2 go together quite well & find the conclusion accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not sure if it's working but I think I got it figured out.
> 
> Perhaps we can beseech Shaver to share a couple pointers as to direct posting of youtube videos?


When you are posting a 'quick reply' there is an icon bar at the top - hit the one second from the right and paste the youtube link into the box that appears, hit 'save' and the screen shot version of the link will appear right here, right now:


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## Stubbly

Shaver said:


> Wow! I have heard much, *much*, worse than the Trashwomen. All that is wrong with that song is the ultra lo-fi production but that is, one presumes, the deliberate idiom. Here's something much better from the same genre (psychedelic, trash culture, rockabilly, surf style)
> 
> The Cramps - Can Your Pussy Do the Dog?
> 
> Poison Ivy, phew! What a thrilling lady. :thumbs-up:


Touché!

This performance is agonizingly bad, and tasteless.


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## Stubbly

Shaver said:


> There are very occasional moments within the Beatles career that are tolerable- the White Album includes most of them.


Most of the Beatles music has not worn well with me. I still enjoy this song on occasion - love Harrison's rockabilly guitar.

The Beatles- I Saw Her Standing There


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## Chouan

Stubbly said:


> A few of my favorites:
> 
> Robert Palmer - Addicted To Love


Robert Palmer seems to have a particular predilection......


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## WouldaShoulda

Chouan said:


> Robert Palmer seems to have a particular predilection......


He must have had the girls around and decided to shoot two videos for the price of one.

Still, 80s classics along with Johnny and Mary, and Clues.


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## Howard

Shaver said:


> I hate this song with a passion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus I despise nearly everything the Beatles or Led Zepplin ever released. These two groups represent the most over-rated dross, mainly enjoyed by people who do not really like music but just need some jumble to fill their heads and pass the time.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .


I kind of like the video. I lived the 80's.


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## justonemore

In honor of Shaver and his tutelage, I present to you my next choice.

While still the same artist/musician as my previous post, I feel any video featuring Christopher Walken dancing deserves special accolades ("Bad Guy" Walken first trained in dance):


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## Stubbly

Chouan said:


> Robert Palmer seems to have a particular predilection......


Yes, it would seem so... I have a fondness for beautiful women, too.


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## immanuelrx

Shaver said:


> Plus I despise nearly everything the Beatles or Led Zepplin ever released. These two groups represent the most over-rated dross, mainly enjoyed by people who do not really like music but just need some jumble to fill their heads and pass the time.
> 
> .


Funny, it is usually the older gentleman who say the music isn't as good today as it was when the beatles and led zeppelin used to play.
I must have bad taste in music then since they are both in my top ten. 

Here is a recent favorite from my favorite band:


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## immanuelrx

Here is one of the worst music videos:


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## Stubbly

Joan Baez's haunting 'tribute' to Bob Dylan for treating her badly.

...As I remember your eyes
Were bluer than robin's eggs
My poetry was lousy you said...

...Well you burst on the scene
Already a legend
The unwashed phenomenon
The original vagabond...

...if you're offering me diamonds and rust
I've already paid.


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## Shaver

The gruesome screeching high priestess of wretched nonsense, the undisputed world heavyweight champion of abominable tuneless caterwauling - Janis Joplin.

I'd rather be deaf and blind than have to sit through a video of any of her performances so 'google' one for yourselves. Or don't. Trust me, she is the worst 'celebrated' singer in human history.


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## Chouan

Shaver said:


> The gruesome screeching high priestess of wretched nonsense, the undisputed world heavyweight champion of abominable tuneless caterwauling - Janis Joplin.
> 
> I'd rather be deaf and blind than have to sit through a video of any of her performances so 'google' one for yourselves. Or don't. Trust me, she is the worst 'celebrated' singer in human history.


Quite agree. Although I tend to share your view, in a general sense, of the Beatles and led Zeppelin being somewhat over-rated, at least they had some level of talent. She, however, appeared to me to be singularly void of anything in that line.


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## Shaver

immanuelrx said:


> Funny, it is usually the older gentleman who say the music isn't as good today as it was when the beatles and led zeppelin used to play.


Why, you cheeky young whippersnapper!


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## Shaver

One of the most criminally under-rated groups currently is Alice Cooper. Despite being critically lauded during their heyday and once the envy of their peers, arguably the biggest group in the world in the early Seventies, their legacy is tragically overlooked. A band that, having brought so much to modern music, are now marginalised. Perhaps their decadent sense of humour (unlike po-faced Zepplin cf the odious Misty Mountain Hop) works against them, their zany theatricals, their clever lyrics coupled with trash-culture references, all allow modern ears to doubt them as 'serious' musicians. Whatever the reason, it is indisputible that their ability to craft a rock song far exceeds that of most groups, their vision shames other rock legends. The immediacy of their songs belies the complexity of the arrangements. From 'Love It To Death' to (most of) 'Muscle of Love' Alice Cooper provide the blueprint for everyone else to follow.


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## Langham

Shaver said:


> Plus I despise nearly everything the Beatles or Led Zepplin ever released. These two groups represent the most over-rated dross, mainly enjoyed by people who do not really like music but just need some jumble to fill their heads and pass the time.


Ungrateful scamp --- have some of my jumble:


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## Shaver

^ 

There is one Led Zep recording that has my wholehearted approval, albeit a song adapted from various other earlier blues sources - most notably Blind Willie Johnson. It is a moment where, instead of singing silly sub-Tolkein foolishness accompanied by laughable folk tunes or cliched nonsense backed by dopey riffs, they really had something to say and performed it with acute passion.


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## justonemore

Ok. Enough quarrelling. The video is cheesy but they're still one of the finer bands coming out of the U.K.


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## Langham

Shaver said:


> ^
> 
> There is one Led Zep recording that has my wholehearted approval, albeit a song adapted from various other earlier blues sources - most notably Blind Willie Johnson. It is a moment where, instead of singing silly sub-Tolkein foolishness accompanied by laughable folk tunes or cliched nonsense backed by dopey riffs, they really had something to say and performed it with acute passion.


Something like this, I believe:


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## justonemore

Hmmmm. While dealing with U.K. musicians, I'm not sure we should forget Annie Lennox (or at least one of them)...


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## justonemore

From the U.K. Olympic Committee we get this gem:


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## justonemore

Pity I can't find an official Jethro Tull video. Skating away and aqualung deserve a bit mof mention. Like them or not, who else features the flute in rock music...


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## Shaver

justonemore said:


> From the U.K. Olympic Committee we get this gem:


My mate Gizz Butt ended up playing guitar for Prodigy just when they hit the big time. Never saw him again.


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## justonemore

As the regulars here may remember, I took my 5 year old daughter to her first "rock" concert featuring this guy:


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## Chouan

I saw Genesis at Newcastle City Hall in about 1972. They were good. I wonder what happened to their support act, some bloke dressed as a clown/pierrot, Leo something.....


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## Shaver

^ He's still going strong: https://www.leosayer.com/


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## Chouan

justonemore said:


> Ok. Enough quarrelling. The video is cheesy but they're still one of the finer bands coming out of the U.K.


Their finest hour.


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## Chouan

Shaver said:


> ^ He's still going strong: https://www.leosayer.com/


Ar$e. Him I mean, of course.


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## justonemore

Chouan said:


> I saw Genesis at Newcastle City Hall in about 1972. They were good. I wonder what happened to their support act, some bloke dressed as a clown/pierrot, Leo something.....


I first saw life at a Chicago area hospital in about 1972 (closer to 1973 actually).


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## Chouan

justonemore said:


> I first saw life at a Chicago area hospital in about 1972 (closer to 1973 actually).


Child.
I was 17, I think.


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## WouldaShoulda

Shaver said:


> One of the most criminally under-rated groups currently is Alice Cooper. Despite being critically lauded during their heyday and once the envy of their peers, arguably the biggest group in the world in the early Seventies, their legacy is tragically overlooked. A band that, having brought so much to modern music, are now marginalised. Perhaps their decadent sense of humour (unlike po-faced Zepplin cf the odious Misty Mountain Hop) works against them, their zany theatricals, their clever lyrics coupled with trash-culture references, all allow modern ears to doubt them as 'serious' musicians.


Yes, the chicken shows and make up detract from any actual talent one may possess.

Let that be a lesson to you, youngsters!!


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## justonemore

WouldaShoulda said:


> Yes, the chicken shows and make up detract from any actual talent one may possess.
> 
> Let that be a lesson to you, youngsters!!


Really? I do Wonder who is considered universally a better talent & which is better known..Yo-Yo Ma or Alice Cooper?.. Yo-Yo- Who? Weren't Barenboïm, Solti, & Bernstein known for their translations of classical works? Sadly one must realise self promotion works.


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## Langham

This by Saint-Saens, even though it reminds me of the Can-Can:


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## sskim3

the most awesomely bad music video and song:

david hasselhoff - jump in my car


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## WouldaShoulda

Robert should have stuck with the "wall of babes" for his Clues video.


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## Stubbly

*THIS*

Veronica Bennett - a.k.a. Ronnie Spector

The Ronettes - Be My Baby


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## Howard

immanuelrx said:


> Here is one of the worst music videos:


I agree.


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## Stubbly

Shaver said:


> The gruesome screeching high priestess of wretched nonsense, the undisputed world heavyweight champion of abominable tuneless caterwauling - Janis Joplin.
> 
> I'd rather be deaf and blind than have to sit through a video of any of her performances so 'google' one for yourselves. Or don't. Trust me, she is the worst 'celebrated' singer in human history.


Shaver, I'm glad you've been able to release some of the irritation you feel about JJ.

Serenity now, serenity now...


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## Joseph Peter

For this one, we reach back into antiquity and I must admit it is not truly a music video.






Unfortunately, I am unable to locate the one from Cozy's private collection...we'll keep digging but it is certainly one of my favorite tunes, not to mention a terrific album.


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## Stubbly

Shaver said:


> I hate this song with a passion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus I despise nearly everything the Beatles or Led Zepplin ever released. These two groups represent the most over-rated dross, mainly enjoyed by people who do not really like music but just need some jumble to fill their heads and pass the time.


Shaver, My brother from another mother, I'm feeling some regret for originating this thread. I fear the subject of bad music has put you in danger of suffering a cerebral hemorrhage.

BTW, speaking of jumble, here's an excellent example of such. I've heard Justin Bieber had some help writing this thing that I suppose resembles music in some very remote sense. I would rather drive a rusty steel rod through my eardrums than listen to this drivel.

Sample lyrics:

Baby, baby, baby, oh
Like baby, baby, baby, no
Like baby, baby, baby, oh
I thought you'd always be mine, mine

I'm all gone
(Yeah, yeah, yeah)
(Yeah, yeah, yeah)
Now I'm all gone
(Yeah, yeah, yeah)
(Yeah, yeah, yeah)
Now I'm all gone
(Yeah, yeah, yeah)
(Yeah, yeah, yeah)
Now I'm all gone, gone, gone, gone
I'm gone

Justin Bieber - Baby


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## Fiddlermatt

I clicked just to see how bad it could be. I now am contemplating suicide. Good day, sirs.


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## Howard

Fiddlermatt said:


> I clicked just to see how bad it could be. I now am contemplating suicide. Good day, sirs.


Here, let me join you Fiddler.


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## Bohan

Let's mix it up a little. Some of my favorites, chosen for variety:






Do to forum rules I could only link to the others.

Surrender
Wish I Wuz A Whisker
All Alone Am I
Mei Vater is an Appenzeller
Send Me Some Lovin'
I Love A Piano

Also check out the Osmond Brothers' barbershop quartet videos, most of which have long intros by Andy Williams.


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## taylorgtr

immanuelrx said:


> Here is one of the worst music videos:


That video was either the reason for, or a complete justification of all the rumors about those two.


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## taylorgtr

WouldaShoulda said:


> Robert should have stuck with the "wall of babes" for his Clues video.


The recording (not the video) is the best impersonation of 1979-era Police songs I've ever heard.


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## Stubbly

taylorgtr said:


> The recording (not the video) is the best impersonation of 1979-era Police songs I've ever heard.


Perhaps, there may be some Police vibe there.

Here is George Michaels/Wham doing a very, very bad impersonation of a 1960's Motown girl group.

Wham! - Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go


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## Shaver

Stubbly said:


> *THIS*
> 
> Veronica Bennett - a.k.a. Ronnie Spector
> 
> The Ronettes - Be My Baby


Great choice Stubbers, old boy - one of the few songs that is permanently saved on my ipod


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## Shaver

The Mozzfather waxes lyrical in this paean to h0m0-erotic thuggery.






*I never wanted to kill 
I am not naturally evil 
Such things I do 
Just to make myself 
More attractive to you 
Have I failed ? *


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## Shaver

Diana Dors. English blonde bombshell. Top notch.






*gonna be so old and grey now
gonna be too late to say now
pretty fine things we should have said then
this chance may never come again

.
.
.
.
.
.

*


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## Chouan

Shaver said:


> The Mozzfather waxes lyrical in this paean to h0m0-erotic thuggery.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I never wanted to kill
> I am not naturally evil
> Such things I do
> Just to make myself
> More attractive to you
> Have I failed ? *


This one's good as well.


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## Howard

Stubbly said:


> Perhaps, there may be some Police vibe there.
> 
> Here is George Michaels/Wham doing a very, very bad impersonation of a 1960's Motown girl group.
> 
> Wham! - Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go


I happen to love Wham!


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## Howard

I've always enjoyed Sabrina "Boys,Boys Boys" from 25 years ago. She just keeps popping out of her top.


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## Bohan




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## Stubbly

Shaver said:


> The Mozzfather waxes lyrical in this paean to h0m0-erotic thuggery.
> 
> *I never wanted to kill
> I am not naturally evil
> Such things I do
> Just to make myself
> More attractive to you
> Have I failed ? *


Sadly, depravity & violence are two things that set man apart from other animal life.



Shaver said:


> Diana Dors. English blonde bombshell. Top notch. *
> *


Indeed.


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## justonemore

Stubbly said:


> Sadly, depravity & violence are two things that set man apart from other animal life.
> 
> .


The animal kingdom is inherently violent. The difference is that man is one of the few species that kills for "sport" & "idealogy" versus defense or dietary needs.


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## justonemore

Now back to the topic at hand....While the idea behind the video isn't exactly original, it's still nicely done when paired with the music....I understand that "pop" music may not be to the liking of most members on this forum but it is the one constant that will get women out on the dance floor (though I admit that most any music will do when dancing with a 20 something. lol). As an additional plus, we can always critique the suits...


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## Stubbly

justonemore said:


> The animal kingdom is inherently violent. The difference is that man is one of the few species that kills for "sport" & "idealogy" versus defense or dietary needs.


I was speaking violence in the unnecessary sense, such as killing a taxi driver and robbing him of $25.


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## Shaver

This is the best music video ever made.






"Gimme an "F"
_"F"
_"Gimme a "*"
_"*"
_"Gimme a "C"
_"C"
_Gimme a "K"
_"K"
_"What's that spell?" 
.
.
.

.
.
.


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## Howard

Bohan said:


>


Patti sings with such emotion.


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## Joseph Peter

They used to call the Middleweight Champion Tony Zale the finest piece of steel ever produced in Indiana. For your consideration, we submit the finest piece of British Steel:






Admittedly, it can be difficult to get past the cheesy production value, but Mr. Halford etal do know how to fire the furnaces of Birmingham.


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## Shaver

^ If that's the way we are going then, this:


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## justonemore

Shaver said:


> ^ If that's the way we are going then, this:


I do have to Wonder if our method of dress and music styles have somewhat become "antiquated" much as that of our dreaded predecessors. My grandfather dressed well and spoke of Laurence Welk. We dress well and speak of Judas Priest...Is there any difference in generational thought?


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## Shaver

^ Could I encourage you to expand upon this query?


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## Chouan

These people even have a museum dedicated to them in NZ.....


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## justonemore

Shaver said:


> ^ Could I encourage you to expand upon this query?


Really? I suppose.... Is it not the same generational complaints that have been heard throughout the centuries? The younger générations dress differently, listen to different music, follow different styles and trends. They are not what we are used to. They are not what we did when we were younger (nevermind that none of dressed the way we currently do while in high school). The music our generation is used to, is perhaps likened to Laurence Welk. We have a few old dinos still touring but....? As much as we hate to admit mit..Perhaps Dylan was wrong when he said "the times, they are a changin." Perhaps as mentioned, "the more things change, the more they stay the same."? Just an idea. Perhaps a seed of sorts. Even the "rebels" of our times have settled down into what we would once think as mediocrity or softness. I don't mean it to be insulting versus thought provoking but even the 80's are 30 years dead by now. I love the ideas of the 60's but they were well before my time. The 40's have little to no consequence on my thought (other than the lessons that should be taken from such periods). The 1920's? the 1900's? Even less related to modern life. What are my children supposed to take from it? Live in the past or enjoy modern life as it is? Again, nothing specific. Just a mention and mixture of ideas.


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## Shaver

^ Contemporariness and the shock of the new have little currency for me ... _except - _I have always maintained a fondness for innovators, those who were compelled by their Art and not merely churning out product in the hope of generating sales. If we speak of modern music, and by 'modern music' then if we must have an arbritary identifier I would suggest that the introduction of echo as in integral component of the sound cf Sam Phillips seems as good as any, then a reasonably clear line may be drawn from Hank Williams through to Marilyn Manson - the spine of this line being originality and the further from the cortical font the more generic and moribund the acts tend to be. Music would appear to be devalued for (or by) modern youth, not in a 'things were better back in my day' mode, yet a deeper corrosive force: endless choice. Commodification of experience itself but even worse still commodification of the experience of the experience contribute toward an inability to excercise introspective analysis. Certainly it is possible that occasional sparkling gems surface from mediocrity and genre grinding, yet in an industry no longer driven by the impulse toward creativity this is increasingly unlikely.

EDIT: on a more positive note - true Art is eternal and consistently relevant. Why, I was listening to the Who's Substitute only this morning as I journeyed to work - as visceral and arousing a song today as upon its day of release.


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## justonemore

Shaver said:


> ^ Contemporariness and the shock of the new have little currency for me ... _except - _I have always maintained a fondness for innovators, those who were compelled by their Art and not merely churning out product in the hope of generating sales. If we speak of modern music, and by 'modern music' then if we must have an arbritary identifier I would suggest that the introduction of echo as in integral component of the sound cf Sam Phillips seems as good as any, then a reasonably clear line may be drawn from Hank Williams through to Marilyn Manson - the spine of this line being originality and the further from the cortical font the more generic and moribund the acts tend to be. Music would appear to be devalued for (or by) modern youth, not in a 'things were better back in my day' mode, yet a deeper corrosive force: endless choice. Commodification of experience itself but even worse still commodification of the experience of the experience contribute toward an inability to excercise introspective analysis. Certainly it is possible that occasional sparkling gems surface from mediocrity and genre grinding, yet in an industry no longer driven by the impulse toward creativity this is increasingly unlikely.
> 
> EDIT: on a more positive note - true Art is eternal and consistently relevant. Why, I was listening to the Who's Substitute only this morning as I journeyed to work - as visceral and arousing a song today as upon its day of release.


Ok. The band Boston could be considered "half assed" by many but the reality is that the group's founder developed and innovated music in ways that are still beneficial today. Not many kids today really know of Boston but the innovation is still appreciated. The same could be seen in many groups that you don't appreciate..i.e. Pink Floyd... transcendental music exists but perhaps not to the point of our liking. Madonna has been popular since I was a wee ladd but has done nothing new recently (10 years or so). Moreover, where do we draw the line at creativity? Is Eric Clapton a thief of African music or has he innovated it to a further point? Who the hell below our age really knows of Eric Clapton? These are just a few examples I throw out to throw out. I suppose it depenmds on what innovations you consider Worth being "trans-generational".


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## quiller

Being from NJ ,I am partial to the local talent.


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## Bohan

Stormy Monday - Dianne Reeves, David Peaston:






I want a little sugar in my Bowl - Nina Simone
Seven Spanish Angles - Willie Nelson, Ray Charles
Tell It Like It Is - Aaron Neville, Gregg Allman, Bonnie Raitt
Danny Boy - Jackie Willson


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## Joseph Peter

Brilliant, Mr. Shaver and Mr. Justonemore!

As to the topic discussed in the context of music, I submit that the yarn "art is dead" applies to pop music. It seems that at present all one needs is a rhyme book and auto-tune. The form of pop music is unchanged ever since the days of Elvis and his progenitors: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, and a closing verse. If the form works, by all means use it. Nonetheless, it is up to the artist to do something creative with it. Such has been lacking since the early 90s. For example, I truly cannot think of a musical artist in the 90s who excelled at the level of, for example, a "supergroup". When we move into the 21st century, we find the advent of music artists "sampling" the work of those who came before. I cannot think of a more concrete example of an absence of originality than sampling. Now, I suppose fans of current music can cite, for example, ELP's remake of Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man. Admittedly, ELP borrowed heavily from Copeland but they re-worked and interpreted the piece in a different fashion instead of merely sampling it. To sum up, I cannot think of the latest and greatest guitar player or band. Perhaps Questlove might fit into the mix as a drummer but beyond him, the cupboard is pretty empty. Thus, it is no surprise that Mick and the boys continually trot out their final farewell - "we really mean it this time" - tour. Why not? There's no one challenging them.

P.S. Yes, I am a Judas Priest fan :aportnoy:


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## Stubbly

Shaver said:


> ^ If that's the way we are going then, this:


Judas Priest? Their pretentious hostile badazz screaming style does not appeal to me.

I guess I just don't get it.


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## Shaver

justonemore said:


> Ok. The band Boston could be considered "half assed" by many but the reality is that the group's founder developed and innovated music in ways that are still beneficial today. Not many kids today really know of Boston but the innovation is still appreciated. The same could be seen in many groups that you don't appreciate..i.e. Pink Floyd... transcendental music exists but perhaps not to the point of our liking. Madonna has been popular since I was a wee ladd but has done nothing new recently (10 years or so). Moreover, where do we draw the line at creativity? Is Eric Clapton a thief of African music or has he innovated it to a further point? Who the hell below our age really knows of Eric Clapton? These are just a few examples I throw out to throw out. I suppose it depenmds on what innovations you consider Worth being "trans-generational".


Boston did what? We'll be bringing up those dreaded pompous bores Rush next. :devil:

Most musicians have a limited pool of creativity, a finite source of ideas. Unfortunately once a fan base is well established they will continue to release records long after the urge to express themselves has diminished and is ultimately replaced by a desire to maintain their self-image. The Rolling Stones are the worst offenders in this by some considerable margin but the trend is applicable to almost every act who has released more than a few albums.

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## Shaver

Joseph Peter said:


> Brilliant, Mr. Shaver and Mr. Justonemore!
> 
> As to the topic discussed in the context of music, I submit that the yarn "art is dead" applies to pop music. It seems that at present all one needs is a rhyme book and auto-tune. The form of pop music is unchanged ever since the days of Elvis and his progenitors: verse, chorus, verse, chorus, and a closing verse. If the form works, by all means use it. Nonetheless, it is up to the artist to do something creative with it. Such has been lacking since the early 90s. For example, I truly cannot think of a musical artist in the 90s who excelled at the level of, for example, a "supergroup". When we move into the 21st century, we find the advent of music artists "sampling" the work of those who came before. I cannot think of a more concrete example of an absence of originality than sampling. Now, I suppose fans of current music can cite, for example, ELP's remake of Copeland's Fanfare for the Common Man. Admittedly, ELP borrowed heavily from Copeland but they re-worked and interpreted the piece in a different fashion instead of merely sampling it. To sum up, I cannot think of the latest and greatest guitar player or band. Perhaps Questlove might fit into the mix as a drummer but beyond him, the cupboard is pretty empty. Thus, it is no surprise that Mick and the boys continually trot out their final farewell - "we really mean it this time" - tour. Why not? There's no one challenging them.
> 
> P.S. Yes, I am a Judas Priest fan :aportnoy:


Sampling was once an Art, a wild frontier, which briefly during the mid-eighties presented the possibility of ingenious and wholly other music being designed. Alas, the tool is now utilised by lazy unimaginative folk in a feeble attempt to bolster their bland dross. A pity, but there we have it.


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## Bohan

Amy Winehouse - You Know I'm No Good

Tiny Tim - Living In the Sunlight


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## scholl43

If I had to stick with the generational trend I'm seeing, I'd go with something by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, who I've been into for a few years now:






I've also recently discovered Nicole Atkins and really love her stuff:




or slower:





I do have to say I like Led Zeppelin, but not in any obsessive way. That's also despite the fact that they basically stole a lot of their music and Jimmy Page should've been put in jail as a rapist and kidnapper (which I only recently found out about).


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## Stubbly

Shaver said:


> Most musicians have a limited pool of creativity, a finite source of ideas..


It seems that most musicians do their best work at a young age. This may be true for many artists, and many people. Most of my "masterpieces" and major accomplishments took place before the tender age of forty.

Perhaps, your best work is behind you, perhaps your best is still ahead.


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## Shaver

scholl43 said:


> If I had to stick with the generational trend I'm seeing, I'd go with something by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, who I've been into for a few years now:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've also recently discovered Nicole Atkins and really love her stuff:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or slower:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have to say I like Led Zeppelin, but not in any obsessive way. That's also despite the fact that they basically stole a lot of their music and Jimmy Page should've been put in jail as a rapist and kidnapper (which I only recently found out about).


Ahh...Nick Cave - the best thing that came out of Australia. Probably. 'Dig Lazurus Dig!!' is such an eminently listenable album.

As to Jimmy Page, boys will be boys.


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## MaxBuck




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## Stubbly

MaxBuck said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ludxpkyrab0


Excellent choice.

THIS.

Amy Winehouse & Paul Weller - I Heard It Through The Grapevine


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## MaxBuck

As long as I'm here, I might as well post the most incredible display of guitar playing I have ever heard. Johnny Hiland plays mostly country chicken-picking, but this proves he's got the chops to play anything he damn well pleases.


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## Tilton

Great video (NSFW but not offensive):


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## Shaver

^ Apparently someone decided that it *was* offensive.


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## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> ^ Apparently someone decided that it *was* offensive.


I ran across this thread last night, when I didn't have access to a decent keyboard.

Let me tell you a thing or two.

First off, anyone who dismisses Janis Joplin doesn't know a flippin' thing about music. Period, case closed, don't even start.

Janis Joplin was, arguably, the greatest, or second greatest, female blues singer ever bred in America. Her only rival, in my opinion, was Billie Holiday, who had the same challenge as Joplin: a far-from-perfect, some might say crappy, voice. Both overcame it in haunting, unforgettable ways. With Billie, it spanned from the innocent clarity of "Them There Eyes" when she was first cast onto the public scene, to "You've Changed," recorded three decades later on the eve of her death when whatever voice she might have had was mostly gone. Didn't matter. Both songs are equally captivating in entirely different ways. One recorded in the 1920s, the other in the 1950s, each song is as brilliant today as when it was first made. That is the hallmark of an artist. Ella Fitzgerald, a marvelous singer and sometimes (and inappropriately, I think) compared with Holiday, couldn't match her troubled "rival," even though Fitzgerald had, by far, the better set of pipes and technical expertise.

Same thing with Joplin. Two examples (and I don't do Youtube, so bear with me). "A Woman Left Lonely" from her last album and "Summertime" from her first. You cannot possibly listen to these songs and come anywhere close to the word "screech." To use that word in connection with Janis Joplin is beyond absurd. It is idiotic, and if I have to learn how to post youtubes to prove my point, I will. The best blues artists on the planet are the best by virtue of their honesty. Mississippi John Hurt, Robert Johnson, Johnny Lee Hooker--you'd dis these guys too, leastwise, so far as I can see from your had-too-much-MSG-in-tonight's-Chinese-food outlook. Seriously, dude. Get a grip. You're just being stupid.

Then there is "Substitute" by The Who. What fun! I tapped the steering wheel when I heard it! Jollies!!!

Look, sport. The Who's best album was Live At Leeds. That had "Substitute" on it, but not the "Substitute," apparently, that gets your rocks off. The studio version of "Substitute" has much in common, I think, with the studio version of "More Than A Feeling" by Boston, the band which you cannot seem to understand. You're singing the praises of the studio version of "Substitute" while hating "More Than A Feeling?" Seriously? Really, seriously?

I've had enough of your silliness. You need to start listening to Roky Erickson. Captain Beefheart (and Zappa, for that matter). Also Getz/Gilberto. And the Sex Pistols (that won't take long). And Dusty Springfield. And Louis Armstrong. And the Blues Project. And Jimi Hendrix (of course, you'd see Aren't You Experienced as screeching and West Seattle Boy as for-die-hards-only). And Nirvana--there's a lot of stuff going on there that makes that band worthwhile even though they never performed "Substitute"--and Warren Zevon and Gram Parsons, while we're at it. And War. And Cypress Hill. And Dr. Dre. And Miles Davis. And Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground. And the Wilburn Brothers and Donovan and a zillion others.

Go ahead. Pick on any of the above artists and I'll get back to you.


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## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> I ran across this thread last night, when I didn't have access to a decent keyboard.
> 
> Let me tell you a thing or two.
> 
> First off, anyone who dismisses Janis Joplin doesn't know a flippin' thing about music. Period, case closed, don't even start.
> 
> Janis Joplin was, arguably, the greatest, or second greatest, female blues singer ever bred in America. Her only rival, in my opinion, was Billie Holiday, who had the same challenge as Joplin: a far-from-perfect, some might say crappy, voice. Both overcame it in haunting, unforgettable ways. With Billie, it spanned from the innocent clarity of "Them There Eyes" when she was first cast onto the public scene, to "You've Changed," recorded three decades later on the eve of her death when whatever voice she might have had was mostly gone. Didn't matter. Both songs are equally captivating in entirely different ways. One recorded in the 1920s, the other in the 1950s, each song is as brilliant today as when it was first made. That is the hallmark of an artist. Ella Fitzgerald, a marvelous singer and sometimes (and inappropriately, I think) compared with Holiday, couldn't match her troubled "rival," even though Fitzgerald had, by far, the better set of pipes and technical expertise.
> 
> Same thing with Joplin. Two examples (and I don't do Youtube, so bear with me). "A Woman Left Lonely" from her last album and "Summertime" from her first. You cannot possibly listen to these songs and come anywhere close to the word "screech." To use that word in connection with Janis Joplin is beyond absurd. It is idiotic, and if I have to learn how to post youtubes to prove my point, I will. The best blues artists on the planet are the best by virtue of their honesty. Mississippi John Hurt, Robert Johnson, Johnny Lee Hooker--you'd dis these guys too, leastwise, so far as I can see from your had-too-much-MSG-in-tonight's-Chinese-food outlook. Seriously, dude. Get a grip. You're just being stupid.
> 
> Then there is "Substitute" by The Who. What fun! I tapped the steering wheel when I heard it! Jollies!!!
> 
> Look, sport. The Who's best album was Live At Leeds. That had "Substitute" on it, but not the "Substitute," apparently, that gets your rocks off. The studio version of "Substitute" has much in common, I think, with the studio version of "More Than A Feeling" by Boston, the band which you cannot seem to understand. You're singing the praises of the studio version of "Substitute" while hating "More Than A Feeling?" Seriously? Really, seriously?
> 
> I've had enough of your silliness. You need to start listening to Roky Erickson. Captain Beefheart (and Zappa, for that matter). Also Getz/Gilberto. And the Sex Pistols (that won't take long). And Dusty Springfield. And Louis Armstrong. And the Blues Project. And Jimi Hendrix (of course, you'd see Aren't You Experienced as screeching and West Seattle Boy as for-die-hards-only). And Nirvana--there's a lot of stuff going on there that makes that band worthwhile even though they never performed "Substitute"--and Warren Zevon and Gram Parsons, while we're at it. And War. And Cypress Hill. And Dr. Dre. And Miles Davis. And Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground. And the Wilburn Brothers and Donovan and a zillion others.
> 
> Go ahead. Pick on any of the above artists and I'll get back to you.


Aww bless, you seem a trifle flustered.

I 'need to start listening to' some of the groups I already know off-by-heart, do I?

From the list you provide there is one group I simply cannot avoid taking a pot-shot at - the utterly useless Nirvana. Thank goodness that Cobain was a better aim than he was a singer/songwriter. 

Calm down and let's dance!


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## immanuelrx

Man, what kind of bizarro world am I currently in? So Nirvana, the Beatles, and Led Zeppelin are all bad and Janice Joplin is one of the best. Consider my mind blown. I must really know nothing about music then. Just go ahead and put me out of my misery by telling me Garth Brooks isn't one of the best entertainers of all time.


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## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> Aww bless, you seem a trifle flustered.
> 
> I 'need to start listening to' some of the groups I already know off-by-heart, do I?
> 
> From the list you provide there is one group I simply cannot avoid taking a pot-shot at - the utterly useless Nirvana. Thank goodness that Cobain was a better aim than he was a singer/songwriter.
> 
> Calm down and let's dance!


Not flustered, just being real.

As for Nirvana, here's why you're wrong: Cobain wasn't much of a guitarist, but he was nonetheless genius in that he extracted every molecule from his talent. There are no wasted notes on a Nirvana record. Every song is soaked in purpose and original despite rock being, of necessity, entirely derivative. If you don't like Nirvana, then you also shouldn't like the Sex Pistols, and to not like the Sex Pistols is to not understand rock music. While I'm at this, let me correct a misunderstanding you apparently have regarding Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper is a person, silly, not a group, and while he can't play an instrument, he always hired the best. The apex, in my opinion, was Alice Cooper Goes To Hell. His form of genius came in his wedding of rock with Broadway musicals, and that album did so perfectly. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you need to listen to more Alice Cooper. His shows, by the way, are a bit what's-the-point at this point. I've seen him three times, he charges top dollar and the shows are a bit dated--he never strays far from the script, and the phony guillotine isn't much interesting anymore.

Then again, we have...Substitute! What a delightful toe-tapping ditty! Seriously, it's not necessarily a bad song, but for someone to take cheap shots at the Beatles and then say that Substitute is the cat's meow is, well, not being consistent. John and Paul wrote way better songs than Substitute. Way better. Much as I like the Who, time has not treated the group well, even worse than time has treated the Beatles.


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## Shaver

immanuelrx said:


> Man, what kind of bizarro world am I currently in? So Nirvana, the Beatles, and Led Zeppelin are all bad and Janice Joplin is one of the best. Consider my mind blown. I must really know nothing about music then. Just go ahead and put me out of my misery by telling me Garth Brooks isn't one of the best entertainers of all time.


No, no. That's _not_ the world we live in - Nirvana, Beatles and Led Zep are all bad and Joplin is one of the worst. There, it all makes perfect sense now I trust?

Do not be discouraged - a considerable deal of people know nothing whatsoever about music, and are enamoured by their poor choices. In much the same way as we jolly fellows on AAAC have learnt to understand and appreciate proper clothing so it can be achieved for music with just a little application.


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## immanuelrx

Shaver said:


> No, no. That's _not_ the world we live in - Nirvana, Beatles and Led Zep are all bad and Joplin is one of the worst. There, it all makes perfect sense now I trust?
> 
> Do not be discouraged - a considerable deal of people know nothing whatsoever about music, and are enamoured by their poor choices. In much the same way as we jolly fellows on AAAC have learnt to understand and appreciate proper clothing so it can be achieved for music with just a little application.


Thanks for setting me straight Shaver, it all makes sense now.


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## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> Not flustered, just being real.
> 
> As for Nirvana, here's why you're wrong: Cobain wasn't much of a guitarist, but he was nonetheless genius in that he extracted every molecule from his talent. There are no wasted notes on a Nirvana record. Every song is soaked in purpose and original despite rock being, of necessity, entirely derivative. If you don't like Nirvana, then you also shouldn't like the Sex Pistols, and to not like the Sex Pistols is to not understand rock music. While I'm at this, let me correct a misunderstanding you apparently have regarding Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper is a person, silly, not a group, and while he can't play an instrument, he always hired the best. The apex, in my opinion, was Alice Cooper Goes To Hell. His form of genius came in his wedding of rock with Broadway musicals, and that album did so perfectly. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you need to listen to more Alice Cooper. His shows, by the way, are a bit what's-the-point at this point. I've seen him three times, he charges top dollar and the shows are a bit dated--he never strays far from the script, and the phony guillotine isn't much interesting anymore.
> 
> Then again, we have...Substitute! What a delightful toe-tapping ditty! Seriously, it's not necessarily a bad song, but for someone to take cheap shots at the Beatles and then say that Substitute is the cat's meow is, well, not being consistent. John and Paul wrote way better songs than Substitute. Way better. Much as I like the Who, time has not treated the group well, even worse than time has treated the Beatles.


To like Nirvana is to not understand rock music. Johhny Rotten has said so unequivocably. So how do you balance that with your belief in the Sex Pistols?

Alice Cooper *was* a group, the common misunderstanding was that it was the singer's name and eventually this misunderstanding was absorbed by Vincent Furnier when the group split. Silly.

BTW I have seen Alice Cooper play live approximately 20 times back in the day but I wouldn't cross the road to watch him play live these days. I really don't need to listen to any more Alice Cooper for I know every song off-by-heart, please stop making these outrageous and unfounded assumptions for they do you little credit.

My shots at the Beatles are not cheap, why would you say so? The best shots at a Beatle were made by Mark Chapman. :devil:


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## Chouan

immanuelrx said:


> Just go ahead and put me out of my misery by telling me Garth Brooks isn't one of the best entertainers of all time.


Garth Brooks isn't one of the best entertainers of all time. There, I said it.
Actually, I don't rate him as any kind of an entertainer, in fact if he came on the television when I was watching it I'd turn it, and him, off. Or were you talking about Garth Crooks? He really can be entertaining.


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## immanuelrx

Chouan said:


> Garth Brooks isn't one of the best entertainers of all time. There, I said it.
> Actually, I don't rate him as any kind of an entertainer, in fact if he came on the television when I was watching it I'd turn it, and him, off. Or were you talking about Garth Crooks? He really can be entertaining.


And now my life has no meaning. Oh David Bowie, where are you when I need you most....


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## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> To like Nirvana is to not understand rock music. Johhny Rotten has said so unequivocably. So how do you balance that with your belief in the Sex Pistols?
> 
> Alice Cooper *was* a group, the common misunderstanding was that it was the singer's name and eventually this misunderstanding was absorbed by Vincent Furnier when the group split. Silly.
> 
> BTW I have seen Alice Cooper play live approximately 20 times back in the day but I wouldn't cross the road to watch him play live these days. I really don't need to listen to any more Alice Cooper for I know every song off-by-heart, please stop making these outrageous and unfounded assumptions for they do you little credit.
> 
> My shots at the Beatles are not cheap, why would you say so? The best shots at a Beatle were made by Mark Chapman. :devil:[
> 
> Alice Cooper the band broke up when Ford was in the White House. Vincent was always the front man. So, you're somewhat correct. Johnny Rotten is entitled to his opinion, as is everyone, but it doesn't make him right. In this case, he is wrong. As for the Beatles, what endures, if nothing else, is their mastery of the album as art form. If individual songs have lost luster through the years, the albums as wholes have not. Rubber Soul is an excellent example. Every song fits, and "new and improved" digital versions that include songs not found on the original vinyl sound jarring. Tell me: Do you honestly hate Rubber Soul?


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## Tilton

I'm just going to leave this here with one note: see them if they're in town, very good/fun live.


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## Stubbly

32rollandrock said:


> Janis Joplin was, arguably, the greatest, or second greatest, female blues singer ever bred in America.


Janis Jopin truly hit a record-breaking Grand Salami with "Piece of My Heart." Yes, I know the band sucked. But, Janis didn't need no band.


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## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> Alice Cooper the band broke up when Ford was in the White House. Vincent was always the front man. So, you're somewhat correct. Johnny Rotten is entitled to his opinion, as is everyone, but it doesn't make him right. In this case, he is wrong. As for the Beatles, what endures, if nothing else, is their mastery of the album as art form. If individual songs have lost luster through the years, the albums as wholes have not. Rubber Soul is an excellent example. Every song fits, and "new and improved" digital versions that include songs not found on the original vinyl sound jarring. *Tell me: Do you honestly hate Rubber Soul?*


No, of course I do not hate Rubber Soul.

Such an insignificant object is not worthy of my strong feelings.

Tell me: do you honestly admire John Lennon?

BTW 'somewhat correct'? That's rather amusing, I may borrow that from you.

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## Shaver

immanuelrx said:


> And now my life has no meaning. Oh David Bowie, where are you when I need you most....


Now David Bowie... a case could easily be made that his influence on Western civilisation, up to and including the global banking crisis, cannot be underestimated.


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## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> No, of course I do not hate Rubber Soul.
> 
> Such an insignificant object is not worthy of my strong feelings.
> 
> Tell me: do you honestly admire John Lennon?
> 
> BTW 'somewhat correct'? That's rather amusing, I may borrow that from you.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 
> .
> .


Admire in what sense? As a human being? Never knew him, can't say. As an artist? Yeah, I think that he was pretty good. Among other things, he took chances that his band mates never did, and that became crystal clear after the band broke up. Paul, and to a lesser extent George, stuck to the formula. John didn't, and the results weren't always pretty, sometimes crossing the line into self indulgence. But I think that he was as honest in his music as he could be--Plastic Ono Band was his masterpiece, and it holds up well, in my opinion. He certainly wasn't nearly the intellectual that he was made out to be. Tons of naivete all over the place. Every band has a leader, and the Beatles were definitely John's band. He kept them tight. It's amazing to hear Live At Hollywood Bowl. They're consummate professionals, cranking it out without being able to hear themselves and never missing a note and always in harmony. That's Lennon's work, I think.

Calling Rubber Soul an insignificant object is just plain stupid. You know that (you obviously know a fair amount about music), and so do I. I'll leave it at that.

The thing about judging music is, you really have to watch yourself and question your assumptions and acknowledge biases. Back in the day, I thought hip hop was stupid--and much of it was, still is--but I was wrong. I also thought that Hank Williams and Johnny Cash were silly when my parents kept playing it while I was growing up, but I was wrong. I'm listening to Horses as I write this and while I understand its greatness, I can also see how someone could find it vapid--that's what happens when someone makes such a great record that it can't be ignored and so is aped to the extent that it becomes co-opted through no fault of the artist. A great album is oftentimes something that can't be digested in one listening or even twenty. That's why Trout Mask Replica is on so many desert island disc lists. You can listen to that record a zillion times and come away with something new almost every time--that's true of most Beefheart records. On the other hand, Never Mind The Bollocks plays pretty much the same every time you play it (as does Nevermind), but it (and Nevermind) are both great records. I suspect you (and Johnny Rotten) don't like Nirvana because the group married Led Zepplin to punk. And I don't have a problem with Led Zepplin, either.


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## Shaver

^ I don't like Nirvana because I dislike Corporate Rock. 

Nirvana's unprecedented meteoric rise from playing to a handful of people to selling out stadiums was not achieved by merit. The jarringly sudden fame was engineered by an industry responding to the overwhelming political pressure from special interest groups who were terrified by the white suburban youth's then obsession with the likes of Ice T and who had demanded a make-believe rebellion as a distraction. 

It was Cobain's cognisance of this situation, that he was not an artist but a puppet, that he did not deserve his fame, which led to his depression and demise. 

Nirvana were the 'grunge' Monkees.


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## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> ^ I don't like Nirvana because I dislike Corporate Rock.
> 
> Nirvana's unprecedented meteoric rise from playing to a handful of people to selling out stadiums was not achieved by merit. The jarringly sudden fame was engineered by an industry responding to the overwhelming political pressure from special interest groups who were terrified by the white suburban youth's then obsession with the likes of Ice T and who had demanded a make-believe rebellion as a distraction.
> 
> It was Cobain's cognisance of this situation, that he was not an artist but a puppet, that he did not deserve his fame, which led to his depression and demise.
> 
> Nirvana were the 'grunge' Monkees.


Sigh,

I grew up in the Puget Sound area. I saw Nirvana before they got famous. I saw them when they were the opening act for Girl Trouble (a great band that never got famous enough for its members to quit their day jobs) in a leaky former porno theater. Pearl Jam, as Cobain once infamously alluded, were the Monkees of grunge (I believe he used the term bubble gum grunge). You'd rather listen to Mudhoney (and some, but not me, might)? Nirvana was the absolute real deal. Granted, Nevermind was more pop than the band's previous albums, and Cobain acknowledged that.

Look. It's pretty clear you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrary. That's your schtick, and you're pretty good at it. But it does get tiresome after awhile.

You really should stow your conspiracy theories on special interest groups pitting Ice T (and Ice T would NEVER sell out) against Nirvana. That's freakin' ridiculous. I'll chalk it up to you being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, because you are surely not stupid enough to truly believe that. Are you? BTW, have you ever lived in the United States? Or is all of your information on what happens in America coming through some weird Internet filter or alien spaceship that has escaped the rest of us?

And another thing. You seem to know an awful lot about what was going on in Cobain's brain. Did you know him? Did you act as his shrink? Or is this just more prattling from someone who seems to make it up as he goes along?


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## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> Sigh,
> 
> I grew up in the Puget Sound area. I saw Nirvana before they got famous. I saw them when they were the opening act for Girl Trouble (a great band that never got famous enough for its members to quit their day jobs) in a leaky former porno theater. Pearl Jam, as Cobain once infamously alluded, were the Monkees of grunge (I believe he used the term bubble gum grunge). You'd rather listen to Mudhoney (and some, but not me, might)? Nirvana was the absolute real deal. Granted, Nevermind was more pop than the band's previous albums, and Cobain acknowledged that.
> 
> Look. It's pretty clear you're being contrarian for the sake of being contrary. That's your schtick, and you're pretty good at it. But it does get tiresome after awhile.
> 
> You really should stow your conspiracy theories on special interest groups pitting Ice T against Nirvana. That's freakin' ridiculous. I'll chalk it up to you being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, because you are surely not stupid enough to truly believe that. Are you? BTW, have you ever lived in the United States? Or is all of your information on what happens in America coming through some weird Internet filter or alien spaceship that has escaped the rest of us?


Wow. It's not often I get the 'sigh' treatment.

Can we avoid the personal insults 32rollandrock? I like you as a member, enjoy your posts, but we are discussing music here. I am allowed to hold a different opinion to you without it being merely a deliberate attempt to annoy you or simply because I am an idiot.

Anyway, despite your assertions, you may be aware of Charlton Heston's speech to the share-holders of TimeWarner and concerning the track 'Cop Killer'? You do remember the PMRC?


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## Chouan

Artistic taste, like taste in food, is entirely subjective. If there is a genre, or an artist, that one doesn't care for then nothing that another person might say will change that view. My wife, for example, loathes Pink Floyd and won't knowingly listen to anything by them. She can't really explain why, beyond repeating that they're pretentious and self-indulgent. On the other hand, she likes 70's dance music......


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## Shaver

^ But we can educate our palate. Subjectivity need not be a free-for-all of ghastly stupidity.


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## Chouan

Shaver said:


> ^ But we can educate our palate. Subjectivity need not be a free-for-all of ghastly stupidity.


Of course, but as John Lennon was being discussed earlier, he will serve as a good example. Some of the early Beatles stuff was good, for it's time, but much hasn't aged very well. Older people will probably be influenced by feelings of nostalgia, even if unconsciously. John Lennon, though, in his solo work, produced self-indulgent mawkish stuff that has very little merit, rather like much of Paul Macartney's recent work. However, because his personality was so strong, and his reputation was so good, many people liked his stuff automatically, others because they, unconsciously, felt obliged to like his stuff. Rather like the bloke who became the drummer for Genesis, who took over the band on Peter Gabriel's departure, and then launched an immensely successful solo career whilst remaining only a quite good drummer. Nevertheless, he was so popular, apparently, that many people bought his "latest album" because they were unconsciously obliged to do so because it was "known" to be good.


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## Shaver

^ Agreed.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> Wow. It's not often I get the 'sigh' treatment.
> 
> Can we avoid the personal insults 32rollandrock? I like you as a member, enjoy your posts, but we are discussing music here. I am allowed to hold a different opinion to you without it being merely a deliberate attempt to annoy you or simply because I am an idiot.
> 
> Anyway, despite your assertions, you may be aware of Charlton Heston's speech to the share-holders of TimeWarner and concerning the track 'Cop Killer'? You do remember the PMRC?


Didn't mean to offend, and apologies for that. But seriously, dude. Of course music is subjective. Still, I have trouble getting my head around someone singing the praises of a throwaway song by the Who (did someone say corporate rock?) and asserting that Nirvana is garbage in the next breath. You understand, I hope, the cognitive dissonance. Also, by definition, nearly every successful rock band in history went from small to big almost overnight because rock groups are, by and large, composed of young people. They start noodling on guitars around age 10 or 12, form their first bands in high school, start playing in clubs at age 21 (they can't legally play such spots until they're old enough to drink) and, voila, they get noticed and it's on to bigger and better things. Nirvana was no different than a zillion others.


----------



## Shaver

Thank you, I should like to remain on good terms no matter how ferociously we disagree. 

Now, throwaway songs may occasionally be transcendant, sometimes devastatingly so. But yes, the Who became corporate rock eventually. Try not to fixate on Substitute though, I gave it as example of just something I had happened to listen to that morning. 

I must dispute the notion that Nirvana's rapidity of success was normal, however. Even wholly manufactured groups do not rise so sharply to the pinnacle. 

BTW it is great to see successful bands very early in their career, isn't it? I recall seeing Scissor Sisters in a tiny club in Leeds when they just had the one single out on release. Or witnessing Faith No More (remember them?) in front of an audience of about 15 people just prior to the release of their first album - the next time I saw them they were headlining Reading festival. And so on and so forth......


----------



## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> Thank you, I should like to remain on good terms no matter how ferociously we disagree.
> 
> Now, throwaway songs may occasionally be transcendant, sometimes devastatingly so. But yes, the Who became corporate rock eventually. Try not to fixate on Substitute though, I gave it as example of just something I had happened to listen to that morning.
> 
> I must dispute the notion that Nirvana's rapidity of success was normal, however. Even wholly manufactured groups do not rise so sharply to the pinnacle.
> 
> BTW it is great to see successful bands very early in their career, isn't it? I recall seeing Scissor Sisters in a tiny club in Leeds when they just had the one single out on release. Or witnessing Faith No More (remember them?) in front of an audience of about 15 people just prior to the release of their first album - the next time I saw them they were headlining Reading festival. And so on and so forth......


I saw REM open for the English Beat in 1983. They were as awful then as they turned out to be.

What makes you think that Nirvana's rise was so rapid? The band was four years old or so when Nevermind was released. That's a fairly normal gestation period. Bands rarely improve with age. If they're going to make it, they make it when they're young and fresh. You can also judge, somewhat at least, artists by the company they keep. I'd submit that a stamp of approval from William Burroughs is a fairly decent stamp.

As for the Lennon haters, well, anyone is entitled to an opinion, so long as it is an informed opinion. I still say that Plastic Ono Band is a good album.

Instead of being music snobs and dissing bands/artists to be provocative (and I think there's some element to that going on here), we should be discussing music that is undeniably bad. I happen to like bad music, music that was put out in all seriousness but is simply awful. Here are some examples:


----------



## quiller

My impression from the previous posts, is that the era in which we came of age influenced to a great degree our musical tastes.I still like the great performers of the 60s like Sam Cooke,Otis Redding,Solomon Burke,Chuck Jackson,and the Temptations,and the Isleys.


----------



## 32rollandrock

quiller said:


> My impression from the previous posts, is that the era in which we came of age influenced to a great degree our musical tastes.I still like the great performers of the 60s like Sam Cooke,Otis Redding,Solomon Burke,Chuck Jackson,and the Temptations,and the Isleys.


To a point. Candidly, I stopped paying much attention to contemporary artists after 1990, with a few exceptions. I'm interested in pretty much everything before then--county, rock, blues, jazz--going back to the 1920s.


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## Bohan

With this and the tie thread, it's like people are just choosing random songs/ties. It reminds me of a DJ who introduced his favorite song and it was a song that I would have voted least likely to be tops on anyone's list of anything, not for being bad but for being solidly mediocre in every category.

Here are three songs that I like and you should too:

It's a man's world, Pavarotti & James Brown





A Song For You, John Dreher
Hurt, Christina Aguilera


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## Tilton

Shaver said:


> BTW it is great to see successful bands very early in their career, isn't it? I recall seeing Scissor Sisters in a tiny club in Leeds when they just had the one single out on release. Or witnessing Faith No More (remember them?) in front of an audience of about 15 people just prior to the release of their first album - the next time I saw them they were headlining Reading festival. And so on and so forth......


Ha, Faith No More, I'd forgotten about them. Just curious, how were they described that made you go see them? "There's this cool band where a white guy sort of raps, and they've got synth horns and heavy distortion" wouldn't exactly reel me in.

Similarly, I saw Vampire Weekend (maybe not as big of a band, as FNM, though) in a friend's garage in 2007 (and they slept on his parent's couches). A few months later they were all over everything.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

32rollandrock said:


> To a point. Candidly, I stopped paying much attention to contemporary artists after 1990, with a few exceptions. I'm interested in pretty much everything before then--county, rock, blues, jazz--going back to the 1920s.


Yep, Rock and Roll died soon after 1990.


----------



## 32rollandrock

OK, Shaver, I thought of something that should really get you going.

I like the Grateful Dead. I like the Grateful Dead so much that I subscribe to satellite radio for exactly one reason: the Grateful Dead channel. I didn't keep track, but I went to 40 or 50 Grateful Dead shows. I once got backstage before a show and saw Jerry Garcia walk past carrying a big heaping plate of lasagna. If I had been able to get that plate when he was finished, I would have put it on my wall, unwashed, and left it there forever. Sting (yuck!) of all people opened that show and he also walked past me en route to the stage, and so I know what tune Sting hums when he's seconds away from performing for a stadium full of Deadheads: The Ballad of Jed Clampett aka the theme from the Beverly Hillbillies. 

There is no Substitute for the Grateful Dead, although I believe they did perform a cover of that tune (I know they did Baba O'Reilly, and not well). I have come to realize that the Grateful Dead is a guilty pleasure, but I don't care. Make fun of me all you want.


----------



## justonemore

32rollandrock said:


> OK, Shaver, I thought of something that should really get you going.
> 
> I like the Grateful Dead. I like the Grateful Dead so much that I subscribe to satellite radio for exactly one reason: the Grateful Dead channel. I didn't keep track, but I went to 40 or 50 Grateful Dead shows. I once got backstage before a show and saw Jerry Garcia walk past carrying a big heaping plate of lasagna. If I had been able to get that plate when he was finished, I would have put it on my wall, unwashed, and left it there forever. Sting (yuck!) of all people opened that show and he also walked past me en route to the stage, and so I know what tune Sting hums when he's seconds away from performing for a stadium full of Deadheads: The Ballad of Jed Clampett aka the theme from the Beverly Hillbillies.
> 
> There is no Substitute for the Grateful Dead, although I believe they did perform a cover of that tune (I know they did Baba O'Reilly, and not well). I have come to realize that the Grateful Dead is a guilty pleasure, but I don't care. Make fun of me all you want.


I too enjoy the dead. They were never very commercial. They allowed taping before cell phones made it almost obligatory. They were champions of trying to keep concert tickets at reasonable prices. They accepted that their fans were what made them who they were and supported them. Concerts were more of a free flow pot fueled party with people that were there for the "groove" and atmosphere over the party itself. The friendly hippy chicks helped me through the teens and early 20's as well. While I didn't catch as many shows as you, I did hit 13 to include the last 2 at Soldier Field in Chicago. No one can claim them as "the best" but then again, no one can claim that any other group has ever had such a dedicated following. The parking lot before and after concerts was an adventure on its on part. My friends often comment on how much I've changed from my tie-dyed t-shirt hippy days but I do miss a certain part of those times (mainly the pot, booze, and hippie chicks. lol)


----------



## 32rollandrock

justonemore said:


> I too enjoy the dead. They were never very commercial. They allowed taping before cell phones made it almost obligatory. They were champions of trying to keep concert tickets at reasonable prices. They accepted that their fans were what made them who they were and supported them. Concerts were more of a free flow pot fueled party with people that were there for the "groove" and atmosphere over the party itself. The friendly hippy chicks helped me through the teens and early 20's as well. While I didn't catch as many shows as you, I did hit 13 to include the last 2 at Soldier Field in Chicago. No one can claim them as "the best" but then again, no one can claim that any other group has ever had such a dedicated following. The parking lot before and after concerts was an adventure on its on part. My friends often comment on how much I've changed from my tie-dyed t-shirt hippy days but I do miss a certain part of those times (mainly the pot, booze, and hippie chicks. lol)


Yes, by the end, what was going on musically was pretty sad. I saw them in Seattle and Portland about a month before the final show in Chicago and they were just going through motions--not a single memorable moment, especially in Portland. Jerry's voice was pretty much entirely gone by 1990, and if they had three good songs in a concert, that was the definition of a good show. I can remember, several times, watching them and wondering to myself just how much longer Jerry would last He really looked like hell for more than a decade before he died. Still, even at the very end, you never knew when things would click and they'd light it up. It was, as you say, absolutely more pilgrimage/social event than musical performance from 1990 on (some would say from 1980 on, but I saw some pretty damn good shows during the 1980s). I always thought that Phil was the best musician, but none of them, really, were ever close to virtuoso. Didn't matter. The whole was so much bigger than the sum of the parts. Truly magical stuff happened both onstage and off at Dead shows.

I saw the Jerry Garcia Band in the early 1990s, shortly after the self-titled album was released, and it was an incredible performance. Tons of energy and vigor. It was hard to believe it was the same guy who was phoning it in with the Dead.


----------



## Tilton

I was a bit young to appreciate the dead before their demise, but I have seen Ratdog and Phil Lesh and Friends many times and both put on a good show still. As of last year, Weir is still vivacious as ever playing with Ratdog. I did see The Dead (minus Grateful, ie. minus Jerry) in 2005 or so in Columbus, OH; Dylan opened for them and was basically a folksy Ozzy Osborne. Forgot band members names, forgot song lyrics, utterly incomprehensible. Really sad.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Tilton said:


> I was a bit young to appreciate the dead before their demise, but I have seen Ratdog and Phil Lesh and Friends many times and both put on a good show still. As of last year, Weir is still vivacious as ever playing with Ratdog. I did see The Dead (minus Grateful, ie. minus Jerry) in 2005 or so in Columbus, OH; Dylan opened for them and was basically a folksy Ozzy Osborne. Forgot band members names, forgot song lyrics, utterly incomprehensible. Really sad.


Then there's this:






I saw a reincarnation of Furthur a couple years ago that featured all surviving members and, frankly, wasn't overly impressed. Then again, I might have caught them on an off night, or perhaps I had unrealistic expectations. Just seemed like they didn't take any chances and stayed well within familiar territory--could be because it's one thing to play with the same folks 200-plus times a year and quite another to get together for a couple month tour then go separate ways again. Quite agree about Dylan. I saw when he toured with the band (1989, I think it was) and couldn't understand a freakin' word he sang--he may or may not have forgotten lyrics, no one would have known. The proverbial caricature of himself.


----------



## Shaver

Tilton said:


> Ha, Faith No More, I'd forgotten about them. Just curious, how were they described that made you go see them? "There's this cool band where a white guy sort of raps, and they've got synth horns and heavy distortion" wouldn't exactly reel me in.
> 
> Similarly, I saw Vampire Weekend (maybe not as big of a band, as FNM, though) in a friend's garage in 2007 (and they slept on his parent's couches). A few months later they were all over everything.


Faith No More were a *very *different band with the original singer. 'We Care A Lot' remains an excellent song. That jerk they got in for the second album was a whiny voiced little b*tch.


----------



## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> OK, Shaver, I thought of something that should really get you going.
> 
> I like the Grateful Dead. I like the Grateful Dead so much that I subscribe to satellite radio for exactly one reason: the Grateful Dead channel. I didn't keep track, but I went to 40 or 50 Grateful Dead shows. I once got backstage before a show and saw Jerry Garcia walk past carrying a big heaping plate of lasagna. If I had been able to get that plate when he was finished, I would have put it on my wall, unwashed, and left it there forever. Sting (yuck!) of all people opened that show and he also walked past me en route to the stage, and so I know what tune Sting hums when he's seconds away from performing for a stadium full of Deadheads: The Ballad of Jed Clampett aka the theme from the Beverly Hillbillies.
> 
> There is no Substitute for the Grateful Dead, although I believe they did perform a cover of that tune (I know they did Baba O'Reilly, and not well). I have come to realize that the Grateful Dead is a guilty pleasure, but I don't care. Make fun of me all you want.


The last time the Grateful Dead came up I nearly suffered the ban-hammer. Best I leave this topic alone. :cool2:


----------



## Shaver

justonemore said:


> I too enjoy the dead. They were never very commercial. They allowed taping before cell phones made it almost obligatory. They were champions of trying to keep concert tickets at reasonable prices. They accepted that their fans were what made them who they were and supported them. Concerts were more of a free flow pot fueled party with people that were there for the "groove" and atmosphere over the party itself. *The friendly hippy chicks helped me through the teens and early 20's as well. *While I didn't catch as many shows as you, I did hit 13 to include the last 2 at Soldier Field in Chicago. No one can claim them as "the best" but then again, no one can claim that any other group has ever had such a dedicated following. The parking lot before and after concerts was an adventure on its on part. My friends often comment on how much I've changed from my tie-dyed t-shirt hippy days but I do miss a certain part of those times (mainly the* pot, booze, and hippie chicks. *lol)


Stop dropping hints and let's get down to business, you are making your life sound like you were a Fabulous Furry Freak Brother.

So, which one is you?


----------



## justonemore

Shaver said:


> Stop dropping hints and let's get down to business, you are making your life sound like you were a Fabulous Furry Freak Brother.
> 
> So, which one is you?


OOOFFFF. My life? Come now man. I 'm only 41, born in '72 and missed most everything from the 60's. That I enjoyed pot, booze, and women in high school (as did most others) is hardly anything shocking . Coming from the middle class suburbs of Chicago I hardly had access to the Kate Middelton types and hippie chicks were much more apt to put out or give a good "snogging" compared to the goody 2 shoes "my religion" forbids it types. If one has any sense at all, they take the action when and where they can find it.... My first dead concert was around 1987-88 when I was in 8th grade and the last was in 1995 after I got out of the Army (in the same year).

Oh. Some off your younger day photos hardly suggest you were much further removed from what I mysellf am stating.

HA. The furry brothers....They were a bit before my time as well but I have been "gainfully" employed since I was 14 (so much for child labor laws in the U.S. lol). My main concerns now are my daughters, clothing, and travel but I still enjoy a beer and joint whenever I can get away from family reponsibilities (and can find such easily and without legal hassle).


----------



## Shaver

^ Hee hee. I always prefered the posh birds as a young ruffian. Those 'my religion forbids it' types can really blaze, if properly kindled.


----------



## justonemore

Shaver said:


> ^ Hee hee. I always prefered the posh birds as a young ruffian. Those 'my religion forbids it' types can really blaze, if properly kindled.


Hmmm... Perhaps this explains why my first wife was a "strict catholic" ?? LOL...Although it only lasted a year (due to ethical différentiations), the "relations" were more than satisfactory before and during. :devil:


----------



## justonemore

BAck on topic.......Tori Amos "Winter" is a wonderful tribute to fatherhood. Should either of my daughters ever compose such a piece I would feel more than honored and it almost never fails to bring a tear to my eye. This song alone is good enough reason to contradict Shaver's reasoniong as to children being less than desirable (the video is less than ideal however):


----------



## Shaver

Tori Amos? Don't get me started.  This is the lady who bleats on about the objectification of women but have you ever seen the cover to her first album? The little earthquakes are just the tiny thoughts rattling around in her pea brain. Probably.


----------



## 32rollandrock

justonemore said:


> Hmmm... Perhaps this explains why my first wife was a "strict catholic"


"...with a tiny little mustache."
--F. Zappa


----------



## justonemore

Shaver said:


> Tori Amos? Don't get me started.  This is the lady who bleats on about the objectification of women but have you ever seen the cover to her first album? The little earthquakes are just the tiny thoughts rattling around in her pea brain. Probably.


Ahh. But I mentioned only one song from Amos that happens to touch my heart on a topic that happens to be dear to me. I am as our philosophical friend might say.... "human, all too human" and cannot help but feel certain emotional attachment to certain things beyond "reason". At least Ms Amos was trained in classical music compared to some of the more recent "musicians". One of the purposes behind musical compositions is to draw the litener in emotionally and in this sense, "Winter" succeeds where many other musical pièces from the same period fail. Again my friend, your desire to avoid fatherhood may bias you a bit when it comes to the undersatnding of the song. The rest of Tori's music may be less than what is desired but there are a few of her compositions that touch the heart, mind, and soul of many (although perhaps not you). You like GWAR for the theatrical aspects, I like the dead and Amos for the social aspects. As they say in my part of the world..".C'est la vie".


----------



## justonemore

32rollandrock said:


> "...with a tiny little mustache."
> --F. Zappa


Frank Zappa...What else can one say? Love him or hate him, the man was his own (who else would be comfortable taking on the U.S. congress while naming his daughter "Moon unit" and his son "Dweezel". "Don't fool yourself girl it's going up the...."


----------



## Shaver

justonemore said:


> Ahh. But I mentioned only one song from Amos that happens to touch my heart on a topic that happens to be dear to me. I am as our philosophical friend might say.... "human, all too human" and cannot help but feel certain emotional attachment to certain things beyond "reason". At least Ms Amos was trained in classical music compared to some of the more recent "musicians". One of the purposes behind musical compositions is to draw the litener in emotionally and in this sense, "Winter" succeeds where many other musical pièces from the same period fail. Again my friend, your desire to avoid fatherhood may bias you a bit when it comes to the undersatnding of the song. The rest of Tori's music may be less than what is desired but there are a few of her compositions that touch the heart, mind, and soul of many (although perhaps not you). You like GWAR for the theatrical aspects, I like the dead and Amos for the social aspects. As they say in my part of the world..".C'est la vie".


Bah! Every creature that either slithers, crawls, swims or flies is capable of pro-creation. A highly over-rated phenomenon.

We are (many of us) sentient beings - employ intellect to disconnect the biological imperitive, refuse to be a slave to deoxyribonucleic acid, and seize control of one's own destiny.

Don't make me post the 'mankind is a virus' clip from the Matrix, again.

.
.
.

.
.


----------



## justonemore

Shaver said:


> Bah! Every creature that either slithers, crawls, swims or flies is capable of pro-creation. A highly over-rated phenomenon.
> 
> We are (many of us) sentient beings - employ intellect to disconnect the biological imperitive, refuse to be a slave to deoxyribonucleic acid, and sieze control of one's own destiny.
> 
> Don't make me post the 'mankind is a virus' clip from the Matrix, again.


Bah.... Take what you wish and leave the rest for others. I will no more force you to procreate that I desire you to force me to refrain from such. Should you decide on any type of sexual conatct with a female you may one day find yourself in such a situation( desired or not). It is life and life desires to continue. Welcome to reality. While intercourse is in and of itself fun, it is no where near as interesting as to what my kids can come up with and I find it a much more intersting continuation of my youth than "sex" alone.

Your lack of experience in such matters does not cause me to second guess what has already occured within my own situation.


----------



## Shaver

^ You'll be singing a different song in a few years time when overpopulation pollutes the whole world and a tipping point is reached, there'll be none of your 'life desires to continue' then. 

Perhaps my last ever post on AAAC (in approximately 2017) will be "I damn well told you so, selfish breeders".


----------



## quiller

Its always interesting to see how the subject of a post gets derailed.In this case it's more of a train wreck.


----------



## Bohan

quiller said:


> Its always interesting to see how the subject of a post gets derailed.In this case it's more of a train wreck.


Another favorite:


----------



## justonemore

Shaver said:


> ^ You'll be singing a different song in a few years time when overpopulation pollutes the whole world and a tipping point is reached, there'll be none of your 'life desires to continue' then.
> 
> Perhaps my last ever post on AAAC (in approximately 2017) will be "I damn well told you so, selfish breeders".


We are all dead men. I will go my way and respect the fact that you go yours. I agree with our friend E.M. Cioran in many, many ways, but what is done is done and cannot be realistically undone unless we were to advocate something worse than 1940's Germany. My children are a pleasure to me. I understand that they are not to others. As such, during my stay at a 5* London property, I kept them Under strict control at their expense (and mine as well) in order to allow others to enjoy their time. I do understand the "overpopulation " theory but then again....The opposite is just as damning for mankind... I have seen and heard plenty of theories that disallow the "masses" to procreate but I happen to diasagree with only the Kate Middeltons being able to do so (unless I was the father of course. lol).

Besides, you ignore the fact that while Amos is m"whining" she has also bothered to compose her own music and is proficient with many musical instruments to include the main instrument of many "real" musicians which is piano versus "keyboard" or guitar.. Of course there is always violin as a primary instrument but this hardly figures into any type of current music... The only other classical instrument used would be the flute and I'm sure you despise Jethro Tull for many reasons, I have enjoyed them for the past 25 years and have seen them live at "After Dark" in Hawaii while serving in the Army (same with Nine Inch Nails which I also enjoy).


----------



## Chouan

justonemore said:


> We are all dead men. I will go my way and respect the fact that you go yours. I agree with our friend E.M. Cioran in many, many ways, but what is done is done and cannot be realistically undone unless we were to advocate something worse than 1940's Germany. My children are a pleasure to me. I understand that they are not to others. As such, during my stay at a 5* London property, I kept them Under strict control at their expense (and mine as well) in order to allow others to enjoy their time. I do understand the "overpopulation " theory but then again....The opposite is just as damning for mankind... I have seen and heard plenty of theories that disallow the "masses" to procreate but I happen to diasagree with only the Kate Middeltons being able to do so (unless I was the father of course. lol).


As an aside, how was your trip to London? If I'd had the time I would have been very pleased to have met you and shown you around a bit.


----------



## justonemore

Chouan said:


> As an aside, how was your trip to London? If I'd had the time I would have been very pleased to have met you and shown you around a bit.


Ha. Thank you so very much for asking. While I would have really enjoyed meeting up with you (and all my other AAAC friends/ enemies), I am a realist and understand that my vacation doesn't equal a vacation for all. I will continue to hope that one day we will get together for a "pint" or perhaps "afternoon tea".

We had a great time. I have always loved London for what it is. I believe that I've previously mentioned that I spent several weeks studying in London when I first moved over to Europe? I can't say that I recalled everything (heck I even admit that I got turned around once and it cost me £30 for a cab back to the hotel. lol.), but I was capable of getting around and showing my children both the "historical" and "modern" side of the city. I would have loved to have more time but a start is a start and it was quite a pleasure to visit again.To add to Shaver's viewpoint, I was unable to fully enjoy the satorial side of the trip, but I did get to a few stores without spousal or child interference (to include a nice tour of Cleverley which I'll post later).. I was quite happy that my children enjoyed it very much & the 6 y.o. has spoken of little else the past month or so (pre trip, trip, & post trip). In fact, other than being brought to Heathrow on the return taxi trip (versus London City Airport as requested), I can't really think of a single complaint.


----------



## Odradek

justonemore said:


> The only other classical instrument used would be the flute and I'm sure you despise Jethro Tull for many reasons, I have enjoyed them for the past 25 years and have seen them live at "After Dark" in Hawaii while serving in the Army (same with Nine Inch Nails which I also enjoy).


One of my daughter's best friends is the grand-daughter of Barriemore Barlow, who lives a few miles down the road. While I did once buy a Jethro Tull album back in days gone by, meeting the man a few times has lead me to checking out a few performances on Youtube lately.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> The last time the Grateful Dead came up I nearly suffered the ban-hammer. Best I leave this topic alone. :cool2:


OK, then, let's play everyone's favorite game, If Shaver Was A Deadhead.

If Shaver was a Deadhead, he would:

a. Be a spinner
b. Be one of those guys who keeps telling everyone to be quiet because he's taping
c. Sit down during Space
d. Sell veggie burritos
e. Eat the brown acid

:devil:


----------



## 32rollandrock

A Love Supreme arrived recently and I played it last night for the first time. Mind blowing.


----------



## Stubbly

THIS.

Steve Winwood was about 18 years old.

*Spencer Davis Group - Gimme Some Lovin' (1966)*


----------



## Hitch

The' Ugly': The Who at Monterey. I could never understand the appeal.

The 'Bad';(Baaaaaad) Sly Stone and Sha=na-na at Woodstock. What a gas.

The 'Good' ; I still like this . Its my bubble gum guilty pleasure and the only 'music video' of the list . The tune is catchy. The ' look' is just right especially the animation and the heroine being pretty enough but far from super model status, and its still quite popular ;


----------



## SG_67

Hitch said:


> The' Ugly': The Who at Monterey. I could never understand the appeal.


:eek2:

You can't understand the appeal of The Who or that particular performance? Along with the Velvet Underground, The Who were probably the most ground breaking rock band of the 60's and 70's.


----------



## Hitch

SG_67 said:


> :eek2:
> 
> You can't understand the appeal of The Who or that particular performance? Along with the Velvet Underground, The Who were probably the most ground breaking rock band of the 60's and 70's.


Nnnnnnnever cared a b-bbb-bbbbbit about them.


----------



## Hitch

Fairly close to topic.

Take 3-4 minutes and hear the best blues riff my favorite since this vinyl was first opened ; John Mayall with Mick Taylor


----------



## 32rollandrock

SG_67 said:


> :eek2:
> 
> You can't understand the appeal of The Who or that particular performance? Along with the Velvet Underground, The Who were probably the most ground breaking rock band of the 60's and 70's.


Much as I love The Who, and I do, I would never call them ground breaking, at least in the 1970s (you can make an argument that Tommy was groundbreaking; you can also argue that it was derivative--as is virtually all music, really, unless you want to start talking about Zappa and a few others--and the next logical step after Sgt. Pepper. Their performance at Monterey was transcendent, but lots of great bands have had lots of amazing performances. Just a damn good rock band, and that's enough for me.

And I never said "substitute," Shaver. :devil:

Now, the Velvet Underground was groundbreaking. The difference is, Who's Next, which I would put up there with Live At Leeds as the Who's greatest album, wears more quickly than, say, The Velvet Underground With Nico. The Who never made an album that influential and pretty.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Hitch said:


> Fairly close to topic.
> 
> Take 3-4 minutes and hear the best blues riff my favorite since this vinyl was first opened ; John Mayall with Mick Taylor


Sorry, not even close, in my opinion. Several riffs by Buddy Guy on Hoodoo Man Blues blow that English pretend stuff so far, far out of the water.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Hitch said:


> The' Ugly': The Who at Monterey. I could never understand the appeal.
> 
> The 'Bad';(Baaaaaad) Sly Stone and Sha=na-na at Woodstock. What a gas.
> 
> *The 'Good' ; I still like this . Its my bubble gum guilty pleasure and the only 'music video' of the list *. The tune is catchy. The ' look' is just right especially the animation and the heroine being pretty enough but far from super model status, and its still quite popular ;


That song makes me want to slit my own throat. Seriously. One of the things I hate most about my life was the beginning. I was born in the early 1960s, which meant that I graduated from high school and college in the 1980s, which means that every reunion I dare attend is marred-and-scarred by crappy music from the 80s, and it is nearly all crappy. Like fingernail to blackboard, and that's just the hitmakers. People think REM is deep; I think that band is pretentious personified, as is U2. Lord, how I hate U2! When you have not one, but two, band members who have just one name (oh, excuse me, I guess it is The Edge), it is time to call the pretentious police and charge them with conspiracy. I am fond of Nirvana, which put out its first album in 1989, but they don't count because that record never got any attention until the 1990s. Even Zappa, whom I adore, was largely spent by the 1980s.

Now, there are some gems from the 1980s, but you have to think hard. Trinity Sessions by the Cowboy Junkies is an amazing, amazing record, in my view. Lou Reed paid it the ultimate compliment by saying their version of "Sweet Jane" was the best ever, better than he or the Velvets ever did. My copy came from an ex-girlfriend who bought it based on a Rolling Stone review, then concluded that it was boring. She was, and is, an idiot, and I do not like her anymore.

I am also fond of Learning To Crawl by The Pretenders, so fond, in fact, that I am considering shelling out $30 for a Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab copy. It's not hugely groundbreaking, but it is very well done. I also like Lone Rhino by Adrian Belew. In fact, I love Lone Rhino by Adrian Belew. I saw him in a bar once just before he went on (of course I had a ticket), looked straight at him and said "I'm burned around the edges but I'm tender in the middle." He sneered and said something rude--I can't remember just what. Margot Timmins also thought I was weird when I asked her for an autograph after a show. It's a long story involving a casino and bribing a doorman.

My guilty pleasure from the 1980s is Emotional Rescue. Used to hate it, but it has grown on me enough that I now consider it the last Stones album (not including Stripped, which doesn't count, being a collection of live stuff and covers) worth buying. Speaking of guilty pleasures, which is kind of where this all began, I think that's an outstanding idea. Hitch likes Aha. My guilty pleasure is...Olivia Newton-John, particularly A Little More Love from Totally Hot, when she (or a wizened handler) reinvented herself into a leather-clad tart. Whorish, actually--just look at the album cover. I discovered how "good" A Little More Love is whilst grocery shopping--it was a tune they played amid a lot of Gordon Lightfoot and Neil Diamond (also guilty pleasures, to a point). Moreso than any other ONJ song, this one puts her pipes on full display, and she has fairly good, albeit limited, pipes.


----------



## SG_67

32rollandrock said:


> Much as I love The Who, and I do, I would never call them ground breaking, at least in the 1970s (you can make an argument that Tommy was groundbreaking; you can also argue that it was derivative--as is virtually all music, really, unless you want to start talking about Zappa and a few others--and the next logical step after Sgt. Pepper. Their performance at Monterey was transcendent, but lots of great bands have had lots of amazing performances. Just a damn good rock band, and that's enough for me.
> 
> And I never said "substitute," Shaver. :devil:
> 
> Now, the Velvet Underground was groundbreaking. The difference is, Who's Next, which I would put up there with Live At Leeds as the Who's greatest album, wears more quickly than, say, The Velvet Underground With Nico. The Who never made an album that influential and pretty.


The Who together with the Velvet Underground are what I consider proto punk.

The Who were more melodic in some ways, but when I listen to The Who now and compare them to their contemporaries at the time it's really remarkable just how far ahead they were. Pete Townsend is truly one of the best song writers in the pop and rock and roll genre. Listening to his music, I'm struck as to how each one is like a little character study.

They were certainly more commercially successful, but their music is still as relevant and fresh today as it was then. I agree though, Live at Leeds was one of their finest albums but I think Quadrophenia is right up there and a far more sophisticated thematic effort than Tommy.


----------



## Hitch

32rollandrock said:


> That song makes me want to slit my own throat. Seriously. One of the things I hate most about my life was the beginning. I was born in the early 1960s, which meant that I graduated from high school and college in the 1980s, which means that every reunion I dare attend is marred-and-scarred by crappy music from the 80s, and it is nearly all crappy. Like fingernail to blackboard, and that's just the hitmakers. People think REM is deep; I think that band is pretentious personified, as is U2. Lord, how I hate U2! When you have not one, but two, band members who have just one name (oh, excuse me, I guess it is The Edge), it is time to call the pretentious police and charge them with conspiracy. I am fond of Nirvana, which put out its first album in 1989, but they don't count because that record never got any attention until the 1990s. Even Zappa, whom I adore, was largely spent by the 1980s.
> 
> Now, there are some gems from the 1980s, but you have to think hard. Trinity Sessions by the Cowboy Junkies is an amazing, amazing record, in my view. Lou Reed paid it the ultimate compliment by saying their version of "Sweet Jane" was the best ever, better than he or the Velvets ever did. My copy came from an ex-girlfriend who bought it based on a Rolling Stone review, then concluded that it was boring. She was, and is, an idiot, and I do not like her anymore.
> 
> I am also fond of Learning To Crawl by The Pretenders, so fond, in fact, that I am considering shelling out $30 for a Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab copy. It's not hugely groundbreaking, but it is very well done. I also like Lone Rhino by Adrian Belew. In fact, I love Lone Rhino by Adrian Belew. I saw him in a bar once just before he went on (of course I had a ticket), looked straight at him and said "I'm burned around the edges but I'm tender in the middle." He sneered and said something rude--I can't remember just what. Margot Timmins also thought I was weird when I asked her for an autograph after a show. It's a long story involving a casino and bribing a doorman.
> 
> My guilty pleasure from the 1980s is Emotional Rescue. Used to hate it, but it has grown on me enough that I now consider it the last Stones album (not including Stripped, which doesn't count, being a collection of live stuff and covers) worth buying. Speaking of guilty pleasures, which is kind of where this all began, I think that's an outstanding idea. Hitch likes Aha. My guilty pleasure is...Olivia Newton-John, particularly A Little More Love from Totally Hot, when she (or a wizened handler) reinvented herself into a leather-clad tart. Whorish, actually--just look at the album cover. I discovered how "good" A Little More Love is whilst grocery shopping--it was a tune they played amid a lot of Gordon Lightfoot and Neil Diamond (also guilty pleasures, to a point). Moreso than any other ONJ song, this one puts her pipes on full display, and she has fairly good, albeit limited, pipes.


This is first I'v e heard of REM, U2 Im familiar with but I couldnt name any of their tune titles. Zappa ,never was a fan but I loved the *Weasles Ripped My Flesh* album cover. Never cared for the Stones, although it turns out I used tp play baseball with the _ Let It Bleed_ photographer. Got that news quite recently. The same guy has The Beatles _Let It Be_ cover among his credits. I'm familiar with The Pretenders, Lightfoot I know from the 60s, and I managed until today to never hear of the _Cowboy Junkies_,with luck it wil take as long to hear of them again.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Hitch said:


> This is first I'v e heard of REM, U2 Im familiar with but I couldnt name any of their tune titles. Zappa ,never was a fan but I loved the *Weasles Ripped My Flesh* album cover. Never cared for the Stones, although it turns out I used tp play baseball with the _ Let It Bleed_ photographer. Got that news quite recently. The same guy has The Beatles _Let It Be_ cover among his credits. I'm familiar with The Pretenders, Lightfoot I know from the 60s, and I managed until today to never hear of the _Cowboy Junkies_,*with luck it wil take as long to hear of them again*.


Have you ever heard their music or are you going by the name?


----------



## Hitch

32rollandrock said:


> Have you ever heard their music or are you going by the name?


REM I've never heard of at all. U2 has been around a long time but I wouldnt recognize them on the hearing. . The Pretenders I know much better and the Junkies, never even heard the name before today,at least that I remember.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Hitch said:


> REM I've never heard of at all. U2 has been around a long time but I wouldnt recognize them on the hearing. . The Pretenders I know much better and the Junkies, never even heard the name before today,at least that I remember.


And so you are rejecting the Cowboy Junkies without ever having heard their music?


----------



## Hitch

32rollandrock said:


> And so you are rejecting the Cowboy Junkies without ever having heard their music?


LOL why not?


----------



## SG_67

The Cowboy Junkies and the Tragically Hip are the best things to come out of Canada since Wayne Gretzky and Molson.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Hitch said:


> LOL why not?


Because a few people on this forum, myself included, think that you have a closed mind. This pretty much confirms it. At least you admit it.


----------



## 32rollandrock

SG_67 said:


> The Cowboy Junkies and the Tragically Hip are the best things to come out of Canada since Wayne Gretzky and Molson.


There is also Neil Young. Rush. And William Shatner. But all came before the CJ's and TH.


----------



## Hitch

32rollandrock said:


> Because a few people on this forum, myself included, think that you have a closed mind. This pretty much confirms it. At least you admit it.


You need to take yourself more seriously


----------



## Hitch

SG_67 said:


> The Cowboy Junkies and the Tragically Hip are the best things to come out of Canada since Wayne Gretzky and Molson.


I woke up this mornin and the radio said four winds were blowing strong and I decided someday soon I'm going with the wife back to visit Canuk land.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

The thread title irritates me, why would I want to share my least favourite music videos? And who logs such things in their memory anyway? 
Favourites yes, but least faovurite? That doesn't make any sense at all, that would be like a Republican doing free campaign work for a Democrat.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

Hitch said:


> I woke up this mornin and the radio said four winds were blowing strong and I decided someday soon I'm going with the wife back to visit Canuk land.


I woke up this mornin'
The Moose was dead
The pipes were frozen
And there's a polar bear in my bed

Cos I'm a Canadian
c -a -n-a- d- i- a- n....Canadiaaaaaan
Cos I'm a Canadian 
Don't like those Yankies or the Suuuuuuuuuuuuun.....

Ba dom!

Good night everybody, you've been great, I'll be here all week, be sure to check out the all you can eat meat and more meat buffet!


----------



## 32rollandrock

I am a Canadian citizen. The thing is, we don't take offense at such silliness. We just keep on keeping on, and, eventually, the Americans wake up one day to find that our dollar has caught up with the In-God-We-Trust version. It is just a matter of time. One day, we will control the earth, without lifting a finger or firing a single shot. It will all fall into our laps, and we will respond with a hearty "Eh!" And peace will then reign o'er the world as people of all colours join hand in hand--after setting down their Labatts--to sing "O, Canada" at the top of their lungs.

I have a dream.

This said, I would like now to turn my attention to three great Americans, that being the members of Nirvana. I know Shaver's opinion. He is wrong. I know that he is wrong because Live At Reading arrived the other day and I have just now had a chance to give it a listen. Jaw dropping good. If it is not obvious by now, I have been buying a s-load of records lately, and this one is both transcendent and definitive in the realm of live recordings. We should, perhaps, be offended when the band closes the show with a proto-punk rendition of the Star Spangled Banner. Kurt Cobain is--was--no Hendrix, and he acknowledges that in his playing that nods to The Master without surpassing same. But it is a perfect ending to an unforgettable show. The performance is heavy with pure joy and unbridled exuberance--as Krist Novoselic wrote in the liner notes for Muddy Wishkah, the crowd singing along to "In Bloom" was a defining moment in the band's history. I suspect that it was mostly downhill from this point on.


----------



## Hitch

You got the Tyson connection?


----------



## Shaver

*Shaver - Baby's Bored *

Music - Shaver
Lyrics - Peter/Shaver
Lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass guitar, drum programming, digital effects, vocals - Shaver
Engineered, produced, mixed - Shaver

Apologies for low-fidelity, this is a transfer from an ancient audio tape.

Let's Rock! 

https://tindeck.com/listen/fwza

Kicked in the face, down on my knees,
throw him inside with skeleton keys,
deathwishing for the hall of flames,
bringing me down like an enemy plane

Babys bored, cos she can't ignore
shes so sure that she lays down the law

Queen on the throne of the negative zone
goodbye she can sail this ship alone
I've no doubt, I know what she's about
watch out, love you like a wrestling bout

I was fooled by such a pretty face
looked so sweet but left a bitter taste..........

.
.
.

.
.
.

.
.


----------



## Hitch

https://classicrock.about.com/od/tourschedules/tp/woodstock_wherenow.htm

A collection of factoids involving Woodstock performers.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Saw Black Flag tonight. Amazing.


----------



## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> Saw Black Flag tonight. Amazing.


I occasionally went down the local boozer with Henry, after he moved into the next street along from one of my old buddy's house. A decent, intelligent chap. :thumbs-up:


----------



## Hitch

Watch at your own risk;

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152461886799429


----------



## 32rollandrock

I finally renewed my library card today and regained privileges. I'm listening now to Jimi At Monterey, having just previously listened to Jimi at Miami Pop. Amazing stuff. Makes Live at Leeds sound like a junior high school band recital.


----------



## SG_67

32rollandrock said:


> I finally renewed my library card today and regained privileges. I'm listening now to Jimi At Monterey, having just previously listened to Jimi at Miami Pop. Amazing stuff. Makes Live at Leeds sound like a junior high school band recital.


I tried to find the video of this but couldn't. I recall seeing it years ago in a documentary, but here it is in written form.

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/pete-townshend-jimi-hendrix-negotiating-monterey/


----------



## 32rollandrock

SG_67 said:


> I tried to find the video of this but couldn't. I recall seeing it years ago in a documentary, but here it is in written form.
> 
> https://ultimateclassicrock.com/pete-townshend-jimi-hendrix-negotiating-monterey/


That's funny. Townshend needs to learn to shut up. The rock press is filled with accounts of guys like Clapton turning to each other after first seeing Hendrix in London and saying, "WTF--what do we do now?" He didn't steal your act, Pete--he ate your lunch.


----------



## Odradek

32rollandrock said:


> Saw Black Flag tonight. Amazing.


Saw Richard Thompson, on a stage out in a field, last weekend.
That was amazing.


----------



## Checkerboard 13

Was this thread about videos?

Someone mentioned Palmer, but his best work (musically and visually) was before the "posing babes" period. In fact this video was made 7 years before MTV was born.






Of course the entire Sailing Shoes/Hey Julia/Sneakin' Sally mix is best listened to in its entirety... loud. (There was some incredible talent behind him on that album.)


----------



## Checkerboard 13

A performance:






They were all "on" for this one, and Pastorius, that mad genius (rest his troubled soul), was at his young prime.


----------



## Checkerboard 13

Another performance:






(Someone let the studio band cut their own album.)


----------



## Checkerboard 13

Some old guys having fun (AKA smoke on the water):






OK, enough music. You all can go back to your bickering now.


----------



## Duvel

Dislike of the Beatles isn't surprising by now. While I still own their main discography, there's much in the early catalog I can't listen to the way I enjoyed it when I was a kid. One thing I've learned over my years of record collecting, though, is to keep it all. I keep even the cheesiest LPs.

I still find a lot that is interesting and enjoyable in the middle part of their catalag, 1965-68 or so. "Rain" and "Paperback Writer" are fantastic, to me, even after repeated listens.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Duvel said:


> Dislike of the Beatles isn't surprising by now. While I still own their main discography, there's much in the early catalog I can't listen to the way I enjoyed it when I was a kid.* One thing I've learned over my years of record collecting, though, is to keep it all. I keep even the cheesiest LPs*.
> 
> I still find a lot that is interesting and enjoyable in the middle part of their catalag, 1965-68 or so. "Rain" and "Paperback Writer" are fantastic, to me, even after repeated listens.


Dead on. I've never gotten rid of one and am often surprised by what someone else finds that I've never listened to. I am, however, now considering getting rid of some duplicates. I have as many as four copies of the same record, and I could use both the room and the cash for new records.


----------



## 32rollandrock

This is for Shaver...

I paid $50--$50!--for a record recently, One From The Vault by Shaver's favorite band, the Grateful Dead. It arrived today. I bought the CD when it was released in the early 1990s, but it doesn't hold a candle to the vinyl rendition, which I bought on sale (the regular price was $60). An incredibly inspired performance. It was their first concert, by special invitation only, after an extended hiatus. I knew all of that when I bought the CD, but whoa. I'm listening to it now, and it's like they are in the same room with me. Blows Live Dead and Europe 72 completely out of the water.

Ditch those crappy Kenwoods, Shaver, get yerself a proper turntable and you'll be a Deadhead in no time. Guaranteed.


----------



## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> This is for Shaver...
> 
> I paid $50--$50!--for a record recently, One From The Vault by Shaver's favorite band, the Grateful Dead. It arrived today. I bought the CD when it was released in the early 1990s, but it doesn't hold a candle to the vinyl rendition, which I bought on sale (the regular price was $60). An incredibly inspired performance. It was their first concert, by special invitation only, after an extended hiatus. I knew all of that when I bought the CD, but whoa. I'm listening to it now, and it's like they are in the same room with me. Blows Live Dead and Europe 72 completely out of the water.
> 
> Ditch those crappy Kenwoods, Shaver, get yerself a proper turntable and you'll be a Deadhead in no time. Guaranteed.


Why, you cheeky monkey! 

Actually, I am still brim full of thanks to you for reminding me how essential speaker stands are - my music and movie sessions are now immersed in a spectacularly improved sound field.


----------



## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> Why, you cheeky monkey!
> 
> Actually, I am still brim full of thanks to you for reminding me how essential speaker stands are - my music and movie sessions are now immersed in a spectacularly improved sound field.


You are quite welcome. I'm going through another Hendrix phase. Just ordered the 8-LP box set of Winterland. I know you are also a fan...


----------



## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> You are quite welcome. I'm going through another Hendrix phase. Just ordered the 8-LP box set of Winterland. I know you are also a fan...


I am a fan.

And I realise that I have never replaced my old audio tapes, video tapes and vinyl with any Hendrix cd's or dvd's.

Might I trouble you for a few recommendations?


----------



## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> I am a fan.
> 
> And I realise that I have never replaced my old audio tapes, video tapes and vinyl with any Hendrix cd's or dvd's.
> 
> Might I trouble you for a few recommendations?


Apologies. I mis-remembered, apparently. It must have been Janis that you were wrong about...

This is just my opinion, of course, but I think that you have to start with the three studio records, Are You Experienced, Axis Bold as Love and Electric Ladyland. All three, I suspect, can be filched for free from YouTube if you are of a mind, but the audio quality will obviously not be as good as vinyl, depending on your system. For lack of a better description, I think that those are the "reference" recordings--I think that the live recordings are much deeper when the listener is grounded in the studio work. From there, it gets a bit trickier. I am very partial to Band of Gypsies, the only live recording released during his lifetime, but my opinion is open to challenge now that so much live work has been released. A fair amount of post-mortem work that had been available prior to his heirs regaining control of his work is now, I think, not so vital--The Jimi Hendrix Concerts, Crash Landing, In The West, War Heroes, Midnight Lightning. Embarrassingly, I do not have have a copy of Rainbow Bridge. I am very partial to Jimi Hendrix Concerts, Crash Landing and In The West, but I suspect that you can find stuff at least as good, if not better, now that so much live stuff is available--In The West and Jimi Hendrix Concerts are put-together recordings from various shows, and you can now get the complete shows, which I prefer. So what is a neophyte to do.

Once I had the studio albums, I would get West Coast Seattle Boy. It is a phenomenal eight-LP box set that covers the spectrum, from his days on the chitlin circuit to live stuff to noodling in the studio. It is very, very good and very affordable. I paid $50 for my set that had been played once--it was absolutely mint and new copies don't cost much more (Hendrix is not, apparently, as sexy as he once was, or to the extent his heirs would like). Some would, and have, argued that this is all the Hendrix a casual fan needs. I would disagree, but I would find it difficult to argue that the three studio records plus this isn't enough for a lot of folks.

I prefer Monterey Pop over Woodstock--the band is tighter in the former. I am still digesting Miami Pop, but the initial listen on a library CD was enough to make me order the LP--then again, I am an aficionado. I would avoid Valleys of Neptune--a lot of random noodling that makes it for Hendrix geeks only. Avoid Voodoo Soup. I am not overly impressed with People Hell and Angels, although I reserve the right to change my opinion given that I have not given it a thorough listen. I have not heard South Saturn Delta. Blues is very, very good. It's a compilation, but done very well--it is almost, but not quite, Hendrix Unplugged.

I think it was Robert Christgau who said that Hendrix outside his three studio records is best listened to as one would listen to a jazz musician, and I think that there is merit to that line of thinking. To my ear, he can be listened to endlessly and you'll discover something new with each playing. That is the measure of great music.

Thanks for asking.


----------



## Shaver

Thanks 32r'nr - I intend to reply fully later today. In the meantime - how does this groovy blissed-out trance appropriation of Jimi grab you?


----------



## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> Apologies. I mis-remembered, apparently. It must have been Janis that you were wrong about...
> 
> This is just my opinion, of course, but I think that you have to start with the three studio records, Are You Experienced, Axis Bold as Love and Electric Ladyland. All three, I suspect, can be filched for free from YouTube if you are of a mind, but the audio quality will obviously not be as good as vinyl, depending on your system. For lack of a better description, I think that those are the "reference" recordings--I think that the live recordings are much deeper when the listener is grounded in the studio work. From there, it gets a bit trickier. I am very partial to Band of Gypsies, the only live recording released during his lifetime, but my opinion is open to challenge now that so much live work has been released. A fair amount of post-mortem work that had been available prior to his heirs regaining control of his work is now, I think, not so vital--The Jimi Hendrix Concerts, Crash Landing, In The West, War Heroes, Midnight Lightning. Embarrassingly, I do not have have a copy of Rainbow Bridge. I am very partial to Jimi Hendrix Concerts, Crash Landing and In The West, but I suspect that you can find stuff at least as good, if not better, now that so much live stuff is available--In The West and Jimi Hendrix Concerts are put-together recordings from various shows, and you can now get the complete shows, which I prefer. So what is a neophyte to do.
> 
> Once I had the studio albums, I would get West Coast Seattle Boy. It is a phenomenal eight-LP box set that covers the spectrum, from his days on the chitlin circuit to live stuff to noodling in the studio. It is very, very good and very affordable. I paid $50 for my set that had been played once--it was absolutely mint and new copies don't cost much more (Hendrix is not, apparently, as sexy as he once was, or to the extent his heirs would like). Some would, and have, argued that this is all the Hendrix a casual fan needs. I would disagree, but I would find it difficult to argue that the three studio records plus this isn't enough for a lot of folks.
> 
> I prefer Monterey Pop over Woodstock--the band is tighter in the former. I am still digesting Miami Pop, but the initial listen on a library CD was enough to make me order the LP--then again, I am an aficionado. I would avoid Valleys of Neptune--a lot of random noodling that makes it for Hendrix geeks only. I am not overly impressed with People Hell and Angels, although I reserve the right to change my opinion given that I have not given it a thorough listen. I have not heard South Saturn Delta. Blues is very, very good. It's a compilation, but done very well--it is almost, but not quite, Hendrix Unplugged.
> 
> I think it was Robert Christgau who said that Hendrix outside his three studio records is best listened to as one would listen to a jazz musician, and I think that there is merit to that line of thinking. To my ear, he can be listened to endlessly and you'll discover something new with each playing. That is the measure of great music.
> 
> Thanks for asking.


I listened to Hendrix heavily as a youth and took some small inspiration from his pushing the boundaries of the sound that it was possible to produce with a guitar and attempted to apply this to my own playing style.

My favourite recording was a live one, a double album packaged in a lurid gatefold cover. I struggle to recall the gig but am able to remember that during his inbetween song banter he commented on a girl in yellow (I think?) underwear in the crowd and also apologised for his guitar being slightly out of tune advising that 'only cowboys play in tune anyways'. This is the recording I would most like to obtain again - are those clues sufficient for you to identify the concert?


----------



## 32rollandrock

Shaver said:


> I listened to Hendrix heavily as a youth and took some small inspiration from his pushing the boundaries of the sound that it was possible to produce with a guitar and attempted to apply this to my own playing style.
> 
> My favourite recording was a live one, a double album packaged in a lurid gatefold cover. I struggle to recall the gig but am able to remember that during his inbetween song banter he commented on a girl in yellow (I think?) underwear in the crowd and also apologised for his guitar being slightly out of tune advising that 'only cowboys play in tune anyways'. This is the recording I would most like to obtain again - are those clues sufficient for you to identify the concert?


Yes, I believe that is the Jimi Hendrix Concerts. It's a compilation of live material. The numbers to which you refer are from a Berkeley show, if I'm not mistaken. It's a fantastic album:


----------



## Shaver

32rollandrock said:


> Yes, I believe that is the Jimi Hendrix Concerts. It's a compilation of live material. The numbers to which you refer are from a Berkeley show, if I'm not mistaken. It's a fantastic album:


:icon_hailthee: I am deeply impressed, that's the one!

I never tired of listening to it - but goodness me, isn't it expensive on CD?


----------



## 32rollandrock

^^

I was surprised. Just looked it up and vinyl copies are out there for $20 or less. I would have guessed a lot more. They are likely reissues/reprints, so audio quality might not be state of the art, but good enough for most systems.

Addendum: Just looked up CD's and you're right, they're fairly pricey. Odd that you can get vinyl more cheaply than digital. There is, of course, an easy solution: download a free conversion program and digitize a vinyl copy. I've done that with lots of my records.


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## Hitch

This one is just for kicks;


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## Hitch

_My Back Pages_, #5th Anniversary celebration, fine tune, great lyrics and an irreplaceable cast.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/v...-my-back-pages-30th-anniversary-concert-video


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