# Surcingle belts...Wool only?



## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

I recently overheard a conversation between salespersons regarding the traditional surcingle belt.(They where not able to determine if a belt was wool or cotton.) Is the material of this belt limited to wool or is it acceptable to be made of cotton? IMHO cotton just doesn't have the same distinct look as wool.

And no this is not a "troll". I would just like to clear this up once and for all. Thank you. :icon_smile:


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

I think they are traditionally made of wool, but places like Lands End sells wool and man-made blends.


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## palmettoking (Jan 2, 2010)

The cotton version is referred to as a web belt, I believe.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

palmettoking said:


> The cotton version is referred to as a web belt, I believe.


That has been my understanding. However, not according to Orvis:

I bought the real McCoy from them instead:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Surcingle is indeed wool (Though I suspect many are now wool blends.) and cotton is known as cotton webbing. Pay no attention to Orvis. The terminology used in retail advertising is often a store of misinformation.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

A surcingle is wool. A retailer may get away with a blend and calling it a surcingle, but if there's no wool in it, it's a web belt and they should be called out on calling it anything else.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Thanks, I'm glad that you concur, gentlemen.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/surcingle_belts.php


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

C. Sharp said:


> https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/surcingle_belts.php


So, O'Connell's refers to a cotton belt as surcingle!? :confused2:

Do you happen to know who makes their belts for them? Perhaps Leather Man?


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm genuinely surprised by that. I have wool surcingle belts, as well as cotton web belts, and both (with tabs and buckles) are the same short of the strap material.

In my experience (and I've seen a lot of belts), the term "surcingle" implies wool content. If even OC is fudging that, then it may be a losing battle to maintain the definition. The only reason I can see to use the term interchangeably is to confuse the buyer, and perhaps into paying a higher price. I'm certain "wool web belt" wouldn't be as attractive a listing for what I know to be a surcingle belt.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Agree that the historical precedent is in favor of wool. I would like to see a head to head comparison of wool and cotton, I have a suspicion that the cotton is being offered in the same weave and it is going undetected by consumers. I would like to hear more about it from industry insiders.


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## Yodan731 (Jan 23, 2011)

Brio1,

I have both Leather Man and Torino branded belts from O'Connell's. 

They may have 18 on the website, but there seem to be many more surcingle options in-store.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

First in ad language, surcingle belts became, somewhat redundantly, "wool surcingle," either to help customers to identify what a surcingle belt is, or to distinguish them from cotton belts which had begun to appear more surcingle-like, rather than khaki-military-like; but the existence of the term "wool surcingle" implies that there are other kinds of surcingle, such as cotton. Thus linguistic legitimacy as a "trad" item was provided for cotton web belts in surcingle colors and designs to move in to the market.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Brio1 said:


> So, O'Connell's refers to a cotton belt as surcingle!? :confused2:


They should know better. They *do *know better!


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

C. Sharp said:


> Agree that the historical precedent is in favor of wool. I would like to see a head to head comparison of wool and cotton, I have a suspicion that the cotton is being offered in the same weave and it is going undetected by consumers. I would like to hear more about it from industry insiders.


I recently contacted Leather Man regarding the availability of a surcingle belt in a certain color: the gentleman on the other end explained that while this color was not currently available in wool, the same color in cotton was virtually indistinguishable.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I used to think surcingle referred to the style of leather ends on a fabric belt.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

This seemed like a good thread to ask the question, so here goes, recently I purchased a cotton surcingle form Orvis. Fit wise, I was on the last available hole, but after wearing it a 1/2 dozen times the belt stretched and was too long. Orvis accepted the return without any questions and I was going to get one in a smaller size, but I was wondering, has anyone else experienced the same thing with a wool surcingle.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Brio1 said:


> I recently contacted Leather Man regarding the availability of a surcingle belt in a certain color: the gentleman on the other end explained that while this color was not currently available in wool, the same color in cotton was virtually indistinguishable.


In other words, "We don't have that color in surcingle, would you like it in a nice cotton web belt, Sir?"


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Charles Saturn said:


> This seemed like a good thread to ask the question, so here goes, recently I purchased a cotton surcingle form Orvis. Fit wise, I was on the last available hole, but after wearing it a 1/2 dozen times the belt stretched and was too long. Orvis accepted the return without any questions and I was going to get one in a smaller size, but I was wondering, has anyone else experienced the same thing with a wool surcingle.


Cloth or braided leather belts will stretch a bit with wear. Even solid leather may have a little give.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> Cloth or braided leather belts will stretch a bit with wear. Even solid leather may have a little give.


Thanks for the reply, and no offense but, braided leather, fabric and solid leather aside, you have personally have had that that experience directly with a wool surcingle? and how much did it stretch permanently?


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Jovan said:


> I used to think surcingle referred to the style of leather ends on a fabric belt.


Correct.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I shouldn't have been so quick to say "A surcingle is wool". Indeed, the leather tabs _are_ the obvious surcingle elements of the belt. Consider my hand slapped.

That said, there is a widely held perception that surcingle belt _straps_ are wool, and I think there's evidence of that here. Whether Orvis and OC are going by the book, intentionally misleading us, or are mistaken (without actually being so in this context), is hard to say. What I _would_ say, is that by this definition, LEBO could certainly call their $20 cotton web belt with leather tabs a surcingle, and probably boost sales by it.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Charles Saturn said:


> Thanks for the reply, and no offense but, braided leather, fabric and solid leather aside, you have personally have had that that experience directly with a wool surcingle? and how much did it stretch permanently?


Yes, I've had that experience with surcingle belts. But since most of mine are now only a year, or less, old the process has only begun. But the stretch is slight, certainly less than ¼ inch, maybe an 1/8".


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> Yes, I've had that experience with surcingle belts. But since most of mine are now only a year, or less, old the process has only begun. But the stretch is slight, certainly less than ¼ inch, maybe an 1/8".


 Thanks. because the cotton belt I had stretched nearly a full inch, which I found remarkable.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

maybe it was one of those elasticated stretch models, that are designed to do that?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> maybe it was one of those elasticated stretch models, that are designed to do that?


 I have a couple of those. They always snap back to their original length. I think Chuck Saturn is talking about permanent stretching of woven belts.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> maybe it was one of those elasticated stretch models, that are designed to do that?


I've actually been discouraged by several belt makers from buying the stretch fabric as it tends to not have the same appearance of quality (not that I would have considered it anyway).


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Brio1 said:


> I've actually been discouraged by several belt makers from buying the stretch fabric as it tends to not have the same appearance of quality (not that I would have considered it anyway).


 I concur. I have a pair of Leatherman stretch belts. I thought they would accommodate my ever-changing waistline, which they do, but in hindsight I would've preferred to have gotten the standard surcingle belts.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Just to follow this up: it looks like the buyers for J. Press are only interested in offering cotton now instead of the more traditional wool that was offered in the past. :icon_study:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Brio1 said:


> Just to follow this up: it looks like the buyers for J. Press are only interested in offering cotton now instead of the more traditional wool that was offered in the past. :icon_study:


Shame on Press.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

hardline_42 said:


> I have a couple of those. They always snap back to their original length. I think Chuck Saturn is talking about permanent stretching of woven belts.


Yes that was it. I had a big lunch one day and the next thing you know my belt wouldn't let me forget it.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

hardline_42 said:


> I concur. I have a pair of Leatherman stretch belts. I thought they would accommodate my ever-changing waistline, which they do, but in hindsight I would've preferred to have gotten the standard surcingle belts.


Thanks. I'll buy the classic model in that case.



Brio1 said:


> Just to follow this up: it looks like the buyers for J. Press are only interested in offering cotton now instead of the more traditional wool that was offered in the past. :icon_study:


 ... why? Wool is much more durable.


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