# Shaver's Shoe Shine Showdown.‏



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Yesterday in the 'Shoe shine without wax polish' thread I boasted about my prowess with the mirror shine: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...hine-without-wax-polish&p=1369480#post1369480

Time to put my money where my big mouth is! :icon_smile:

These are a very old (on their third sole) and rather battered pair of Loake Sharp's, in black corrected grain, which I have subjected to the kiwi polish, cotton wool and warm water treatment. They are now as shiny - if not shinier - than patent leather. You can actually see my reflection from taking the photo's but most clearly revealed by the third photo, in the following post.

I'll be honest it is not a look that appeals to me but it is nearly twenty years since I last took the time to do the routine and I fancied seeing if I still had the knack. Anyway no harm done, it's just a pair of shoes in the dreaded black leather. :tongue2:

So.... anyone up for the challenge? Are you thinking "pah! I could do a better mirror shine than that!". OK guys, let's see what you've got.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Here I am in the reflection, holding a camera up:


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

I much preferred your other shoes, Shaver - the parade-ground look does not appeal to me either so I have nothing that remotely competes with the above. However, I do not wish to deter others who feel differently on this matter, and await the results with interest..


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

My friend, that shoe shine would surely have passed muster in any of my Air Wings/Groups/Squadrons and I must acknowledge your shine looks remarkably like the one on the black calf AE Park Aves that I wear with my Tux and Mess Dress, the few times each year that those rigs are brought out of the closet. Very nicely done, Sir! I am impressed with those results.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Those shoes are scary shiny. Well done.

Not to get too sidetracked, but I've always been led to believe that the Brits don't value a shiny shoe as much as the Yanks. Is that true? And if so, I wonder if that cultural divide is getting narrower. I don't see too many shiny shoes these days. The one consistent exception is at weddings where the groomsmen always seem to have rented shiny plasticky black oxfords.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Those shoes are scary shiny. Well done.
> 
> Not to get too sidetracked, but I've always been led to believe that the Brits don't value a shiny shoe as much as the Yanks. Is that true? And if so, I wonder if that cultural divide is getting narrower. I don't see too many shiny shoes these days. The one consistent exception is at weddings where the groomsmen always seem to have rented shiny plasticky black oxfords.


Shoes as shiny as Shaver's (OP) are quite rare I would say. I think there is an expectation that good shoes should be taken care of as befits expensive items, but excessively shiny shoes seem a little suggestive either of too much time on one's hands, or perhaps of a pseudo-regimental affectation - or even a possible fascination with nazi memorabilia, but here perhaps I am getting a little carried away with my hypothesis.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Langham said:


> Shoes as shiny as Shaver's (OP) are quite rare I would say. I think there is an expectation that good shoes should be taken care of as befits expensive items, but excessively shiny shoes seem a little suggestive either of too much time on one's hands, or perhaps of a pseudo-regimental affectation - or even a possible fascination with nazi memorabilia, but here perhaps I am getting a little carried away with my hypothesis.


I think this is what I was getting at. When I was growing up, a well-dressed man always had well-shined shoes. I think this was a function of mandatory military service where men carried over the things they were taught into civilian life. Today, with no draft and fewer men joining the military, the emphasis on the shiny shoe seems to be decreasing in the USA, in my opinion.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> I think this is what I was getting at. When I was growing up, a well-dressed man always had well-shined shoes. I think this was a function of mandatory military service where men carried over the things they were taught into civilian life. Today, with no draft and fewer men joining the military, the emphasis on the shiny shoe seems to be decreasing in the USA, in my opinion.


That would be a likely cause. National Service ended here in 1960, 13 years before it ended in the States. I'm not sure the army places quite the same emphasis on parade-ground turn-out nowadays as once was the case, being preoccupied with more pressing matters.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> Shoes as shiny as Shaver's (OP) are quite rare I would say. I think there is an expectation that good shoes should be taken care of as befits expensive items, but excessively shiny shoes seem a little suggestive either of too much time on one's hands, or perhaps of a pseudo-regimental affectation - or even *a possible fascination with nazi memorabilia*, but here perhaps I am getting a little carried away with my hypothesis.


What!? Clearly shiny shoes have a very specific association in your mind. I wonder what we might perhaps infer from that? :icon_smile_wink:


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> What!? Clearly shiny shoes have a very specific association in your mind. I wonder what we might perhaps infer from that? :icon_smile_wink:


Sorry Shaver, I should have phrased it more subtly - a 'tendency to become over-attached to certain ideas and theories', perhaps. It is not an association I myself attach to shiny shoes I hasten to add, although it is one I have come across from time to time, I was just attempting to convey possible reasons why they might be seen less often.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

SHAVER!!!!! You 'orrible little man......what are you doing on my parade ground? Mess jankers ev'ry ev'nin' till I can shave in those toecaps! DOUBLE AWAY, DOUBLE AWAY, WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE. GET OFF MY PARADE GROUND!!!!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> SHAVER!!!!! You 'orrible little man......what are you doing on my parade ground? Mess jankers ev'ry ev'nin' till I can shave in those toecaps! DOUBLE AWAY, DOUBLE AWAY, WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE. GET OFF MY PARADE GROUND!!!!


SIR! YES, SIR! :icon_pale:


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> SHAVER!!!!! You 'orrible little man......what are you doing on my parade ground? Mess jankers ev'ry ev'nin' till I can shave in those toecaps! DOUBLE AWAY, DOUBLE AWAY, WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE. GET OFF MY PARADE GROUND!!!!


Capital job, sergeant.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> SHAVER!!!!! You 'orrible little man......what are you doing on my parade ground? Mess jankers ev'ry ev'nin' till I can shave in those toecaps! DOUBLE AWAY, DOUBLE AWAY, WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE. GET OFF MY PARADE GROUND!!!!


:aportnoy:


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## TheRomanhistorian (Feb 7, 2010)

Very impressive, Shaver. I admire it but I have to admit that I've always tried to avoid a mirror shine unless I go to a shoeshine stand! I prefer the soft satiny shine of your Loakes, even if I prefer mine a shade less shiny than even those! That said, I do admire shoes as well polished as yours. Was there an officer on parade by any chance?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Just to be absolutely certain no one misunderstands - I do not like this type of shine. I would not waste the beauty of decent calf-skin by applying such a high gloss sheen. The main problem I have with the mirror shine being that is is frankly rather cheap looking, almost as if the shoes are made of PVC. 

That said I had imagined on the largest menswear forum there might have been a taker for the challenge of beating my shine........ :rolleyes2:

By the way Langham I find shoe care to be a very relaxing pass-time, a pleasant chore - never a waste of time. :icon_smile:


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

Shaver said:


> Just to be absolutely certain no one misunderstands - I do not like this type of shine. I would not waste the beauty of decent calf-skin by applying such a high gloss sheen. The main problem I have with the mirror shine being that is is frankly rather cheap looking, almost as if the shoes are made of PVC.
> 
> That said I had imagined on the largest menswear forum there might have been a taker for the challenge of beating my shine........ :rolleyes2:
> 
> By the way Langham I find shoe care to be a very relaxing pass-time, a pleasant chore - never a waste of time. :icon_smile:


I understand your concerns with that kind of shine. But I find that here, if people recognize you're well dressed and see that kind of gloss, they do recognize it is a quality leather shoe and see that it is extraordinarily well shined.

Or, in some cases, they know what goes into shining a shoe like that and think you're nuts. Had that happen to me once.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Here I am in the reflection, holding a camera up:
> 
> View attachment 6819


So the only way to photograph you is in the reflection of your shoes?


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## TheRomanhistorian (Feb 7, 2010)

Shaver said:


> Just to be absolutely certain no one misunderstands - I do not like this type of shine. I would not waste the beauty of decent calf-skin by applying such a high gloss sheen. The main problem I have with the mirror shine being that is is frankly rather cheap looking, almost as if the shoes are made of PVC.
> 
> That said I had imagined on the largest menswear forum there might have been a taker for the challenge of beating my shine........ :rolleyes2:
> 
> By the way Langham I find shoe care to be a very relaxing pass-time, a pleasant chore - never a waste of time. :icon_smile:


Shaver, I appreciate that and I hope I did not imply that I thought a mirror shine was your norm. I was more expressing that whilst I admire the look on others I just have that association of 'cheap shoes' with shoes which are too shiny (your point, though you make it a bit more eloquently than I). I also agree with you that shoe care can be relaxing (I feel the same way about ironing).


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Shaver said:


> That said I had imagined on the largest menswear forum there might have been a taker for the challenge of beating my shine........ :rolleyes2:


Oh, there will be, don't worry about that.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Oh, there will be, don't worry about that.


Aha! That sounds to me as if you are working on a pair of your own shoes, Earl. :icon_smile:

Bring it on! :devil:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Haven't started yet, I'm off sick from work at the mo, not feeling too chipper! But I thought, just for fun, I'd bull up my old DMS RAF boots but not with any modern fluids just using the good old fashioned military method of polish, water and a soft cloth. I too also find it very relaxing. I used to just sit in the evening watching TV and bulling boots and shoes at the same time, often for hours. Of course the best shine was always got from using clear synthetic floor polish until of course the NCOs found out, and they did, especially if it started raining on parade, because it didn't withstand water as shoe polish does. So those cheats would suddenly have white sreaks running off their toecaps.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Haven't started yet, I'm off sick from work at the mo, not feeling too chipper! But I thought, just for fun, I'd bull up my old DMS RAF boots but not with any modern fluids just using the *good old fashioned military method of polish, water and a soft cloth*. I too also find it very relaxing. I used to just sit in the evening watching TV and bulling boots and shoes at the same time, often for hours. Of course the best shine was always got from using clear synthetic floor polish until of course the NCOs found out, and they did, especially if it started raining on parade, because it didn't withstand water as shoe polish does. So those cheats would suddenly have white sreaks running off their toecaps.


Absolutely! Any other way is the method of a dastardly cheat. :icon_smile_wink: I find that cotton wool and especially using luke-warm water make all the difference to the quality of the finished gleam.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Yea, we used to use cotton wool as well, then for the final shine a sock. Spit despite the term spit & polish doesn't work as well and anyway was frowned upon by NCOs because the slat in saliva damages the leather.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Here's a pair of DMS ammo boots that belong to some guardsman

https://www.guardsgearmilitarysuppl...ities/9/004/006/409/549/images/4520971467.jpg


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Here's a pair of DMS ammo boots that belong to some guardsman
> 
> https://www.guardsgearmilitarysuppl...ities/9/004/006/409/549/images/4520971467.jpg


:icon_hailthee:

Now if you can do a shine as good as that Earl, I will be deeply impressed.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Nah, that's guardsman crazy level. The Guards rule was that everything,not just the toecap and heelstrap, but EVERYTHING visible bleow the trouser hem must shine!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Shaver said:


> Just to be absolutely certain no one misunderstands - I do not like this type of shine. I would not waste the beauty of decent calf-skin by applying such a high gloss sheen. The main problem I have with the mirror shine being that is is frankly rather cheap looking, almost as if the shoes are made of PVC.
> 
> .... :icon_smile:


"Rather cheap looking!" Good sir, you have thrust a dull knife between the ribs of every 'soldier at heart' to be found lurking within our midst. LOL. Bet ya wouldn't say that to Prince Charlie? :devil:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> "Rather cheap looking!" Good sir, you have thrust a dull knife between the ribs of every 'soldier at heart' to be found lurking within our midst. LOL. Bet ya wouldn't say that to Prince Charlie? :devil:


Indeed Eagle, that's why I'm taking him on. That said Prince Charlies well-worn Oxfords do not lok good with that high shine it actually makes them look worse I think. My view is that a military shine should be reserved for military shoes & boots.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

The Prince of Wales's shoes really deserve a thread of their own: https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2009/08/patched-shoes.html


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Indeed. And the last line in that article helps to explian my entry on the loafers colour thread "To be honest it looks better on black which is ok because most of the guys that would have this done *come from an era where only black shoes were worn*."


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## ThArtOfWardrobe (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm not sure if there's a more appropriate thread for this question but you guys are without question knowledgeable on the topic and I'm hoping you can help me. I have a few leather shoes, some calfskin, some cheaper leather, some imitation leather, that I'd like to use a bit of wax polish on to get a nice shine on the toe. I've already used Reno and some cream polish, but the shine just isn't coming up like you guys have achieved (despite trying your methods). I think in most cases it's because the leather is cheap or imitation.

I've read in a few places that wax polish is not recommended for non-cordovan shoes because it can dry out the leather. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

ThArtOfWardrobe said:


> I've read in a few places that wax polish is not recommended for non-cordovan shoes because it can dry out the leather. What are your thoughts on this?


That sounds like utter nonsense to me.

Anyway, not getting a shine on soft leather is not unusual nor is it unusual on thin leather.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

ThArtOfWardrobe said:


> I'm not sure if there's a more appropriate thread for this question but you guys are without question knowledgeable on the topic and I'm hoping you can help me. I have a few leather shoes, some calfskin, some cheaper leather, some imitation leather, that I'd like to use a bit of wax polish on to get a nice shine on the toe. I've already used Reno and some cream polish, but the shine just isn't coming up like you guys have achieved (despite trying your methods). I think in most cases it's because the leather is cheap or imitation.
> 
> I've read in a few places that wax polish is not recommended for non-cordovan shoes because it can dry out the leather. What are your thoughts on this?
> 
> Thanks.


Initially I have no idea how to care for imitation leather shoes, beyond throwing them on a bonfire. :icon_smile:

Any genuine leather is capable of being shined to a gleaming finish. Use an application brush to coat the shoe with the wax polish, then a buffing brush to achieve the initial shine. Next get a glass of luke warm water and a bag of cotton wool balls. Dampen the cotton wool and gently squeeze until it is no longer dripping. Use the ball to apply a little of wax to a small area of the shoe and begin to rub in circular motions. You will need patience. For a long, long time nothing much will happen at all, and then eventually - all at once - the mirror shine will appear. Continue this process until the shoes are complete. You may wish to repeat the damp cotton ball stage of the polish to achieve an even glossier shine.

I normally avoid wax polish and have only used it on these shoes for a lark. That said, I do not believe that there is any solid evidence to suggest that wax polish is detrimental to leather shoes, certainly any shoe care regime is better than none.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Initially I have no idea how to care for imitation leather shoes, beyond throwing them on a bonfire. :icon_smile:


:biggrin2:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Burn the heretic...errr...I mean, burn the leatherette!


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

ThArtOfWardrobe said:


> I'm not sure if there's a more appropriate thread for this question but you guys are without question knowledgeable on the topic and I'm hoping you can help me. I have a few leather shoes, some calfskin, some cheaper leather, some imitation leather, that I'd like to use a bit of wax polish on to get a nice shine on the toe. I've already used Reno and some cream polish, but the shine just isn't coming up like you guys have achieved (despite trying your methods). I think in most cases it's because the leather is cheap or imitation.
> 
> I've read in a few places that wax polish is not recommended for non-cordovan shoes because it can dry out the leather. What are your thoughts on this?
> 
> Thanks.


Sorry, i don't think we'll have many people here with any advice for imitation leather beyond "burn them." Asking about imitation leather shoes here would be like going into a performance car forum and asking questions about a Prius.

There are lots of debates, fairly recently about wax polish versus shoes creams you can read.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Shaver said:


> That said I had imagined on the largest menswear forum there might have been a taker for the challenge of beating my shine........ :rolleyes2:


There may well have been many takers. They just don't post losing entries.


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## ThArtOfWardrobe (Feb 9, 2013)

Shaver said:


> Initially I have no idea how to care for imitation leather shoes, beyond throwing them on a bonfire. :icon_smile:
> 
> Any genuine leather is capable of being shined to a gleaming finish. Use an application brush to coat the shoe with the wax polish, then a buffing brush to achieve the initial shine. Next get a glass of luke warm water and a bag of cotton wool balls. Dampen the cotton wool and gently squeeze until it is no longer dripping. Use the ball to apply a little of wax to a small area of the shoe and begin to rub in circular motions. You will need patience. For a long, long time nothing much will happen at all, and then eventually - all at once - the mirror shine will appear. Continue this process until the shoes are complete. You may wish to repeat the damp cotton ball stage of the polish to achieve an even glossier shine.
> 
> I normally avoid wax polish and have only used it on these shoes for a lark. That said, I do not believe that there is any solid evidence to suggest that wax polish is detrimental to leather shoes, certainly any shoe care regime is better than none.


This is very helpful, thank you.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Glacage ala Bjorn. 10 yo churches black calf, newly recrafted, with Saphir Medaille D'Or Pate-de-Luxe Wax Polish:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Previously featured here:

Shoe refurb question
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=1277284


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Langham said:


> Shoes as shiny as Shaver's (OP) are quite rare I would say. I think there is an expectation that good shoes should be taken care of as befits expensive items, but excessively shiny shoes seem a little suggestive either of too much time on one's hands, or perhaps of a pseudo-regimental affectation - or even a possible fascination with nazi memorabilia, but here perhaps I am getting a little carried away with my hypothesis.


Mine are three episodes of Deadwood worth of polishing, so yes, a little too much time perhaps but no latent nazism as far as I can tell 

I use the same method as Shaver. Very rarely... But it's better than JUST watching tv.


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

I think Bjorn may have outshined Shaver!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

OrsonWelles00 said:


> I think Bjorn may have outshined Shaver!


It's neck and neck, I reckon. A great shine from Bjorn though, no doubt about that.

We need a moderating decision here.

Eagle? It's your call Sir. :icon_smile:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Perhaps more participants?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> Perhaps more participants?


Yeah well, unfortunately, were not looking like we're gonna get any, Bjorn, my dear friend. 
All of these guys across the fora going on about how many pairs of shoes they own. I think they're simply making it up. :devil:

My advice to the casual reader of AAAC would be this: never trust the opinion of someone writing about shoes who hasn't demonstrated that they actually own any. :icon_smile_wink:


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Bjorn said:


> Previously featured here:
> 
> Shoe refurb question
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=1277284


Bjorn,
It seems the re-craft turned out very well. Congratulations on money well spent. As far as time spent shining shoes, it always pays for itself in the satisfaction one receives in doing good work well and maintaining the original expense in the plus column. More money saved from not having to get another pair of the same sort for the next many years...
There are many worse ways to spend ones time.
regards,
rudy


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## OrsonWelles00 (Mar 3, 2013)

Shaver said:


> Yeah well, unfortunately, were not looking like we're gonna get any, Bjorn, my dear friend.
> All of these guys across the fora going on about how many pairs of shoes they own. I think they're simply making it up. :devil:
> 
> My advice to the casual reader of AAAC would be this: never trust the opinion of someone writing about shoes who hasn't demonstrated that they actually own any. :icon_smile_wink:


I'll gladly admit I have no shoes that can get to that high of a luster. :tongue2:


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

I am duly impressed by both efforts having gone for that look and knowing what it takes. That's a lot of freakin' work. I call it a draw. But then, I'm not Eagle.


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## lbv2k (Feb 16, 2010)

StylinLa said:


> I am duly impressed by both efforts having gone for that look and knowing what it takes. That's a lot of freakin' work. I call it a draw. But then, I'm not Eagle.


Yeah. I am not eagle either, but I think Shaver wins while I admit Bjorn has done a fantastic job too.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Yeah well, unfortunately, were not looking like we're gonna get any, Bjorn, my dear friend.
> All of these guys across the fora going on about how many pairs of shoes they own. I think they're simply making it up. :devil:
> 
> My advice to the casual reader of AAAC would be this: never trust the opinion of someone writing about shoes who hasn't demonstrated that they actually own any. :icon_smile_wink:


I cannot match your efforts with the brush Shaver (and Bjorn) - I admire your efforts but rarely do more than the basic minimum:









Over the years, the number of shoes actually needed increases exponentially, and the time one can spend polishing individual pairs reduces correspondingly.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> I cannot match your efforts with the brush Shaver (and Bjorn) - I admire your efforts but rarely do more than the basic minimum:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:thumbs-up:

Mr Langham is hereby awarded my official seal of approval for writing about shoes.


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## AndrewJS (Feb 15, 2013)

Geeze you must be a pro at that. How long did that take you to put that shine into them?


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## AndrewJS (Feb 15, 2013)

I've had these shoes for 3 years and have only been polished once, and it took me 15 mins to apply. I use them about twice a week. And the best part about it was that they are from GoodWill.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_7?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=skuff+protective+coatings&sprefix=Skuff+P%2Caps%2C268


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## AndrewJS (Feb 15, 2013)

Here my best shine. I found this product on Amazon a while ago and put this on a cheap pair of loafers. I put this on roughly 3 years ago, which took like 15 minutes. I normally wear those about twice a week. I found here
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_7?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=skuff+protective+coatings&sprefix=Skuff+P%2Caps%2C268


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

AndrewJS said:


> I've had these shoes for 3 years and have only been polished once, and it took me 15 mins to apply. I use them about twice a week. And the best part about it was that they are from GoodWill.
> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_7?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=skuff+protective+coatings&sprefix=Skuff+P%2Caps%2C268


Andrew,
One hopes you would not compare this to the examples previously presented. This product should be met with some skepticism for the use on good shoes. Not personally too concerned with being exposed to carcinogenic mutagens when used for some worthy purpose, but this wouldn't seem to rise to the level of national interest that countervails the risk.
On topic specifically, the condition of the leather does not appear to be benefited and the surface is left with every blemish amplified. Not an improvement over tried and true methods handed down from the ancients. Pass.
Thank you for sharing. All good things to you,
rudy


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Here are a pair of J&M walnut-ish captoe bluchers. They are about 4-6 years old, and I've never shined them. In the years that I've owned the shoes, I've wiped them down with a damp cloth and have applied sole edging, but that is about it.

In preparation for these pictures (same shoes; same time; slightly different angles), I've done the following:

1. Wiped the uppers with a wet cloth. Let dry.
2. Applied saddle soap to the uppers. Wiped off excess. Let dry.
3. Sparingly applied AE leather lotion to the uppers. Let dry.









In my opinion, the shoes are ready for a proper shine. My question concerns the toe area for both shoes, which have scuffs and scratches. I think I've a couple of options.

1. I could apply a wax polish to the uppers to cover the scuffs and scratches and then use a cloth to polish like heck to produce a nice shine.
2. I could skip the wax polish and just polish the shoes with a cloth in an attempt to rub out the scuffs and scratches.

I like the way the shoes look now if I could only get rid of the black scuffs. Any suggestions?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Here are a pair of J&M walnut-ish captoe bluchers. They are about 4-6 years old, and I've never shined them. In the years that I've owned the shoes, I've wiped them down with a damp cloth and have applied sole edging, but that is about it.
> 
> In preparation for these pictures (same shoes; same time; slightly different angles), I've done the following:
> 
> ...


Perhaps the turpentine in wax polish will help with the black scuffs, which to my mind are not really that detrimental. But a brown wax will not cover black scuffs.

If they really bother you, you'd have to use something fairly strong to get them out, like medicinal gasoline. I'd just leave them, they'll most likely come off with time and regular shoe care.

Brown shoes don't really need or want a really high shine. One layer of the right color shoe polish should do.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Here are a pair of J&M walnut-ish captoe bluchers. They are about 4-6 years old, and I've never shined them. In the years that I've owned the shoes, I've wiped them down with a damp cloth and have applied sole edging, but that is about it.
> 
> In preparation for these pictures (same shoes; same time; slightly different angles), I've done the following:
> 
> ...


Nicks and scratches personally I can live with - but the black scuffs, especially as prominent as they are on the toe of the left shoe, are troubling. Sometimes marks like these can be rubbed out with speed and pressure to generate friction which migrates the contaminant stain onto the polishing cloth. Sometimes, however, this method can make the problem worse. Is the leather abraded where the streaks are located?


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## Ματθαῖος (Jun 17, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Here I am in the reflection, holding a camera up:
> 
> View attachment 6819


That's closer to perfect than you need to be! Excellent work.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Nicks and scratches personally I can live with - but the black scuffs, especially as prominent as they are on the toe of the left shoe, are troubling. Sometimes marks like these can be rubbed out with speed and pressure to generate friction which migrates the contaminant stain onto the polishing cloth. Sometimes, however, this method can make the problem worse. Is the leather abraded where the streaks are located?


No Shaver, the leather is very good. In real life, the shoes do appear very nice. That is, the scuffs do not cry out for attention as they do in these photos. However, I would like to build up my bona fides with this shoe care challenge of minimizing/removing the scuffs.


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> No Shaver, the leather is very good. In real life, the shoes do appear very nice. That is, the scuffs do not cry out for attention as they do in these photos. However, I would like to build up my bona fides with this shoe care challenge of minimizing/removing the scuffs.


Bicks4 should work.
rudy


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

RM Bantista said:


> Bicks4 should work.
> rudy


Thank you Rudy. I currently use Lexol and AE leather lotion to condition my casual and dress leather shoes. I don't mind getting another conditioner for the shoe care arsenal, but how is Bick 4 different from Lexol and AE leather lotion?


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Thank you Rudy. I currently use Lexol and AE leather lotion to condition my casual and dress leather shoes. I don't mind getting another conditioner for the shoe care arsenal, but how is Bick 4 different from Lexol and AE leather lotion?


And a very good question, but we cannot know precisely. However, it is less than the next step, Bick 1, another product, which is often sold with the Bick 4 product. One prefers to go by cautious steps.
You have saddle soap, which is a good glycerin product. You have Lexol, also a solid product, sometimes risky. These have not entirely resolved the situation. The AE product may be assumed to be as good as any, but it is not one in my own experience. My thought is that Bick 4 is widely recommended by boot companies and old timers alike. A usually safe solution to these matters.
Otherwise, we have less safe experimentation with harsher products. As we also do not know the root cause for the problem, we cannot jump to a certain method. Too many unknowns. Alcohol, acetone, turpentine? Likely one will work, but the downside is known.
The manufacturers do not release their trade secret formulations for their commercial product. Can't blame them for that.
Another thought: Dawn dish washing detergent. Warm water. Soft sponge. Also an unknown formulation, but generally not harsh. Likely won't hurt anything.
Nice shoes, as we all agree, deserve a bit of care.
Best to you,
rudy


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

RM Bantista said:


> And a very good question, but we cannot know precisely. However, it is less than the next step, Bick 1, another product, which is often sold with the Bick 4 product. One prefers to go by cautious steps.
> You have saddle soap, which is a good glycerin product. You have Lexol, also a solid product, sometimes risky. These have not entirely resolved the situation. The AE product may be assumed to be as good as any, but it is not one in my own experience. My thought is that Bick 4 is widely recommended by boot companies and old timers alike. A usually safe solution to these matters.
> Otherwise, we have less safe experimentation with harsher products. As we also do not know the root cause for the problem, we cannot jump to a certain method. Too many unknowns. Alcohol, acetone, turpentine? Likely one will work, but the downside is known.
> The manufacturers do not release their trade secret formulations for their commercial product. Can't blame them for that.
> ...


Thanks Rudy for the response. Very interesting...dish soap...I wouldn't have thought to use that. I can't see how it would hurt too much either.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Does a 'showdown' involve kicking sand in people's faces?

Or perhaps treading on one another's toes?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Kingstonian said:


> Does a 'showdown' involve kicking sand in people's faces?
> 
> Or perhaps treading on one another's toes?


I had this rather more romantic notion:

The dusty sun-bleached main thoroughfare of a wild west town. The only sound the subdued whinnying of nervous skittish horses tied at the post outside the saloon. Trigger finger twitching on the hammer of my Peace Maker. Stetson shading my eyes from the glare of noon. Puffing on a cheroot in the knowledge that each breath could be my last. 'Draw, you varmint'. A cavalcade of dead lead whistling to and fro. It's done. I leave my enemies feet up in the dirt, as stiff as my smoking barrel. Six Shot Shaver, most feared gun-slinger of the Frontier, heads to the bordello for a bath a bottle and a broad (or two).


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Shaver said:


> I had this rather more romantic notion:
> 
> The dusty sun-bleached main thoroughfare of a wild west town. The only sound the subdued whinnying of nervous skittish horses tied at the post outside the saloon. Trigger finger twitching on the hammer of my Peace Maker. Stetson shading my eyes from the glare of noon. Puffing on a cheroot in the knowledge that each breath could be my last. 'Draw, you varmint'. A cavalcade of dead lead whistling to and fro. It's done. I leave my enemies feet up in the dirt, as stiff as my smoking barrel. Six Shot Shaver, most feared gun-slinger of the Frontier, heads to the bordello for a bath a bottle and a broad (or two).


Two baths?! Careful you don't strain something... 

/Bjorn the Kid


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## Ed Rooney (Nov 6, 2012)

Shaver, I think I could give you a run for your money, courtesy of the US Army. I was always pretty good at it, then some zen shoe shine guy at an AAFES shoppette on a military base showed me the secret to a truly glassy shine. No alcohol, no lighters, no cotton balls. 

On a related note, you guys are carrying around a women's nylon to touch up your scuffs, aren't you? You can go weeks on a good shine with one of those. 

SGT Rooney


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

Ed Rooney said:


> Shaver, I think I could give you a run for your money, courtesy of the US Army. I was always pretty good at it, then some zen shoe shine guy at an AAFES shoppette on a military base showed me the secret to a truly glassy shine. No alcohol, no lighters, no cotton balls.
> 
> On a related note, you guys are carrying around a women's nylon to touch up your scuffs, aren't you? You can go weeks on a good shine with one of those.
> 
> SGT Rooney


Well, gonna share the secret?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Ed Rooney said:


> Shaver, I think I could give you a run for your money, courtesy of the US Army. I was always pretty good at it, then some zen shoe shine guy at an AAFES shoppette on a military base showed me the secret to a truly glassy shine. No alcohol, no lighters, no cotton balls.
> 
> On a related note, you guys are carrying around a women's nylon to touch up your scuffs, aren't you? You can go weeks on a good shine with one of those.
> 
> SGT Rooney


Yep, nylon is good for descuffing or finishing.


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## Ed Rooney (Nov 6, 2012)

StylinLa said:


> Well, gonna share the secret?


Stay tuned. I need to find a suitable pair of shoes for this project. I won't use any of my old shoes since this should be a new or rehabbed pair. Once done I will post the secret, not that it will be useful to anyone outside of officer candidate school or whatever. It's simply too shiny for civilian use.


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## 1909ShoeShine (Mar 22, 2013)

I am late to the game, but here is my challenge to you. My Oxford in calf leather well polished with Collonil 1909 wax polish.

:cool2:


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

That is quite the shine 1909ShoeShine. What technique do you use?


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## 1909ShoeShine (Mar 22, 2013)

I do it like everybody else. Apply wax polish until misty paste covering all over, then buff with moist t-shirt rag. repeat if necessary. In the case of over waxing that mist remaining ,even after vigorous attempt of buffing it off, I would strip some wax with a bottle of Dry Cleaner, then try polishing again. In my opinion, it's more about the products that one use.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

1909ShoeShine said:


> I do it like everybody else. Apply wax polish until misty paste covering all over, then buff with moist t-shirt rag. repeat if necessary. In the case of over waxing that mist remaining ,even after vigorous attempt of buffing it off, I would strip some wax with a bottle of Dry Cleaner, then try polishing again. In my opinion, it's more about the products that one use.


1909 that is an amazing shine! :icon_hailthee:


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## calfnkip (Mar 21, 2011)

Shaver, I just had to post to say how much I'm enjoying this thread. Some great shoe shines and techniques both from you and other forum members. 

I think you mentioned in a post early on that you don't really favor the ultra-high gloss/parade ground shine you illustrate in your photos. I'm the same way. I try to match the shine to what the tanner and shoe manufacturer achieved before the shoes left the factory. Much of the time that means a cream with wax reserved for corrected grain and the handsewn leathers (a subset of corrected grain) found in classic penny loafers. 

Anyway, looking forward to more.


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