# Perception of Italian Americans Today



## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

My identity is one of the most important parts of my life, maybe more-so considering the circumstances that brought my family to these shores. All of them came around the turn of the last Century, my fathers family first through Quebec then to Boston (Revere). My mothers family all settled in Manhattan, at 135 Sullivan Street, in Greenwich Village, and then to Coney Island.

Each part of my family lived their own piece of the Italian American experience. My maternal grandfather grew up in Greenpoint, Brooklyn the son of laborers. His father helped construct what is now the BQE (Brooklyn Queens Expressway) and his mother was a house wife. When that job was finished (in the 1930s or 40s) they opened a scrap business. They could have been millionaires with the approach of WW2, but instead of working full days, they would work long enough to accumulate enough money to go to the beach in the summer time, and go home in the cooler months to just relax. They never did move up the socio-economic ladder, and only now do they value education as most Americans do.

My maternal grandmother's family were the opposite. Very hard working, and socially aware. So aware to the prejudices against Italians were they that they decided to change their last name (from Dondiego to Bell). I have the official name change documents and the primary reason listed was that "in business an American name would help, while an Italian name would hinder the ability to earn". They refused to speak Italian at home, and so the family lost much of its culture in the years after they immigrated. This family went on to produce one of NYC's finest OBGYN doctors in the 40's and 50's, one of NYC's finest general Practitioners during the same time, and several business owners (Dondiego - now Oliviera Flour). They valued education and the "American way" so much so, that they lost a bit of their ethnic heritage in the process. The families immigration to this country was jumpstarted through murder. My great grandfather's sister was raped and deflowered by the politically connected Catholic priest in their small mountain village. When they found out, he and his brothers went to Naples, bought a gun, and shot and killed the priest forcing the enitre family to leave San Fele, and eventually flee Naples to NYC to avoid the carbonieri.

My paternal grandfather's family, the one's who immigrated through Canada to Boston, were the gangster Italians who are glorified at worst, and romanticized at best, in American film. My grandfather used to "drive a truck" for a living, but also drove a Cadillac with custom leather seats with his name and his wife's stitched in them. He had new cars all the time, and was invisible for much of my father's youth. His father was an alcoholic, who would often be found drunk in the streets later in his life. He also most likely caused a severe rift with the family we have remaining in Boston, that exists to this day. Even now when I try to contact them, they say they don't know, and have no family in NY and when I bring up my great grandfathers name and who his brother was (their patriarch) they get belligerent.

One thing that these families all have in common is their native land. Not Italy, but Italy's South, the poor Mezzogiorno. This region was an area where corruption ruled, and the poor were kept down by the wealthy (many of whom were absentee landlords from the North). My maternal grandmother's family is a perfect illustration of the atrocities carried out by the elite in the South. I don't consider those Northerners "Italian Americans" as they hae more in common with the French and the Germanic people than they do with us. Even through cooking, the north uses a butter base while the south an Olive Oil base (which came from the Byzantines who once ruled the rural agrarian South).

All of this leads me to a feeling that I can't help but think about too often...that I don't consider myself "white". Now don't get me wrong here, I am not naive or ignorant enough to think that my people share a sad and torturous history with African Americans, who were brought here unwillingly, enslaved for generations, and then kept down through the failure of Reconstruction in the South and the socio-economic injustices that capitalism breeds. However, I know that when people look at Italians, they view them differently than they do WASP ethnic groups. My family has experienced prejudice for many years in this country due to the fact that we were Italians. For years, jobs available to "white" Americans were shut off to my people. Only recently, and even then, only in certain regions, have Italians entered "white" America.

Just look at what the Mayor of Belmar, NJ said last summer about Italians coming to his town en masse for the beach season:

https://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/07/belmar_mayor_labels_renters_in.html

Were this any other ethnic group, it would have caused this man to lose his position. But it seems like this kind of stuff is fair game for Italians.

My contention is that Southern Italian-Americans are the last politically correct ethnic joke. We are not "white" Americans and are viewed as inherently different, amoral, and a model society that Americans should avoid. That last part is paraphrased from a June 1993 issue of _Commentary_ in an article written by am influential social commentator James Q Wilson.

So leave the PC stuff aside. How do you view Italian Americans and how do you perceive most "white" Americans view us.

*Please note, I'm well aware that discussions based on race/culture/and ethnicity generally get tip-toed around. I tried my best to be as frank as possible in explaining my view and also feel my background info is necessary*


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

You are an American...and that should be enough said. However, based on your inquiry, you seem to want more detail, so here goes: You are a beloved son, a treasured grand son and perhaps a brother; you are a husband, father and, if you are really blessed, you may some day become a 'papa'; you make your living by moulding and developing the intellect of future generations...what a privilege! I am not trying to trivialize or ignore your inquiries or concerns but rather to illustrate the primary reason so many of us go through life with a troubled mind. Yes, we should recognize and celebrate our differences but, more importantly, we should first embrace those things and aspects of our lives we share in common. 

PS: Yours is a fascinating family history. Thanks for sharing it!


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> You are an American... Yes, we should recognize and celebrate our differences but, more importantly, we should first embrace those things and aspects of our lives we share in common.


Thats the thing I guess...on days like today, sometimes I feel like an outsider, eventhough I'm a fourth generation American. I feel like because the customs my family did hold on to, I'm not "American" like baseball and apple pie.

Thanks for the response eagle...I appreciate the kind words! Happy Fourth!


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> You are an American...and that should be enough said.


Exactly.

For what it matters--very little, if at all, in my estimation--I consider Italians "white," although I am not clear as to why that matters. My wife and I had dinner with some of our closest friends last night for a pre-Independence Day celebration. The group included couples whose families originally came from southern Italy, South Africa, South America, India, Ireland, Germany, France, and Russia. It was a group of Americans celebrating America. Where peoples' families originated did nto come up and certainly was not even a consideration in inviting people into our house.

Maybe there are biases in the northeast which haven't made it down to Texas, but when I think of Italians, what comes to mind is the year in college I spent studying in Rome, beautiful cars, great architecture, men who generally dress better than I, comfortable loafers, and amazing women.

I find it sad that you seem to consider yourself more of an outsider than an American, and I wonder why it matters whether you are "white" enough.

Happy Independence Day.


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> I feel like because the customs my family did hold on to, I'm not "American" like baseball and apple pie.


I wouldn't let customs stand in your way. Later today, I'll celebrate in a pair of Italian bit loafers, with a gin (British) and tonic in hand, while smoking a Dominican cigar. I celebrate most American holidays in foriegn clothing, with foriegn drinks, and foriegn cigars (I also often drive at least one foriegn car).

I may even open a bottle of Taurasi this evening, if it makes you feel better. I won't, however, watch any baseball or eat apple pie. Independence Day is about celebrating America--how you do that is of little import. I matters not whether dessert is cannoli or apple pie.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

rgrossicone said:


> So leave the PC stuff aside. How do you view Italian Americans and how do you perceive most "white" Americans view us.


First of all, thank you for sharing your family story. It was fascinating and honest, and I think it typifies what makes America the special place it is: the wonderful and (not so wonderful) pathways that brought us to the present and provides a bridge to the future.

As a black American, I will not attempt to describe what "white" people think of Italians because I don't know. But I think Italian Americans get almost as bad a mis-perception as blacks do. I know very few Italians that fit the "Guido" stereotype, and very few blacks that fit the "pimp/gangsta" stereotype. But the images persist, thanks in part to the media, and people generalize their opinions around those images.

Bearing this in mind, the world is changing, and I think that as we as people get exposed to personal relationships with people who are different than our own race or ethnicity as opposed to only seeing them in bad movies and news clips, we are getting smart enough to see each other as Americans, period, not XXX-Americans. We'll never be a colorblind society, but we're never going back to the ignorance of the past.

Happy Fourth of July!


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

smujd said:


> I find it sad that you seem to consider yourself more of an outsider than an American, and I wonder why it matters whether you are "white" enough.


Correction: *very* sad.

Enough with the self-loathing.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

^^I think its easy to find something sad if you're not looking at things from inside other's shoes. My last name ends in a vowel, and upon my trips to the mid-west normal, educated people's first questions to me were about if and how my family is "connected" or if I know anyone who is. Its not self loathing when its the truth. I'm proud of my heritage and literally wear it on my sleeve. 

Unlike many "white" Americans, my family was forced to give up many of our customs to fit in (see the name change above and the lack of the language being spoken at home). Northern Europeans found it easier to hang onto their cultures and traditions because America adopted those as her own. Why else would my great grandfather have changed his name from Leonardo Dondiego to Leo Bell? Why shouldn't I feel resentment at worst, and apart from at best, a country whose society, rules, and morals have told my family for over a hundred years, that we were different, immoral, and criminal? What other ethnic group would be forced to accept an insult like those shouted publically by the mayor of a NJ town laying down like Italian Americans did?

As for the multi-national congregation from last night, I think thats great, and thats a new America, but for the perception of Italians...those Romans were not our people....just because we share a geographic and political union with Rome doesn't mean that we are the same. My ancestors have been subjugated and abused for Centuries by Roman and Northern rule. Most Italian-Americans are from this Southern Region and Sicily, and we have zero in common with the likes of Michaelangelo, DaVinci, Armani, and Dolce & Gabbanna. that culture is mistakenly assumed to be that of most Italians in America when the exact opposite is true...its just the same subjugation by the North across an ocean, in the land of the free.


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> Unlike many "white" Americans, my family was forced to give up many of our customs to fit in (see the name change above and the lack of the language being spoken at home). Northern Europeans found it easier to hang onto their cultures and traditions because America adopted those as her own. Why else would my great grandfather have changed his name from Leonardo Dondiego to Leo Bell? Why shouldn't I feel resentment at worst, and apart from at best, a country whose society, rules, and morals have told my family for over a hundred years, that we were different, immoral, and criminal? What other ethnic group would be forced to accept an insult like those shouted publically by the mayor of a NJ town laying down like Italian Americans did?


Read up on the Irish experience in America.



rgrossicone said:


> As for the multi-national congregation from last night, I think thats great, and thats a new America, but for the perception of Italians...those Romans were not our people....just because we share a geographic and political union with Rome doesn't mean that we are the same. My ancestors have been subjugated and abused for Centuries by Roman and Northern rule. Most Italian-Americans are from this Southern Region and Sicily, and we have zero in common with the likes of Michaelangelo, DaVinci, Armani, and Dolce & Gabbanna. that culture is mistakenly assumed to be that of most Italians in America when the exact opposite is true...its just the same subjugation by the North across an ocean, in the land of the free.


 Yes, from your pictures, I see how subjugated you are. You have a lovely family, what appears to be a nice place in New York, a career of your choosing. What oppressive conditions.

I say this with complete sincerity--to the extent you are subjugated, it is by your own choice. So bad things happened to your people in Italy. So your people weren't immediately embraced with open arems in America. So your people had to work hard and fight to become Americans. It's not like the Mexicans, Irish, Jews, Japanese, Vietnamese, or any other groups had similar experiences.

America is an opportunity to leave the trials of the home country behind and become something better. While you may not recognize it, Italians have very much become part of who America is today. While there remain bigots of all varieties--and probably always will--most understand that The Godfather isn't a documentary on Italians, Dallas isn't a documentary on Texas, Monty Python isn't a documentary on the British, and Liar, Liar isn't a documentary on attorneys (well, actually...).

I remain by my comment that it is a sad thing that you don't consider yourself American.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> My ancestors have been subjugated and abused for Centuries by Roman...rule.


You actually consider this a legitimate grievance? Something going back 2,300 years?

Wow.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> ...How do you view Italian Americans and how do you perceive most "white" Americans view us[?]....


First I thank you for sharing some of your family history. Such stories are always interesting to me, especially if told along with old photo albums. The grand history of a nation is a good read but the individual histories of those who have gone to make it up are what captivates me. Nice way to spend a part of the 4th!

Now to your questions. When I was a child the Benedetto family lived on our street. My view of Italians in general became unabashedly positive in no small part because of the excellent cooking I was often treated to at their table. Their youngest, Neil, was a buddy and I think I grew up with things Italian being a part of my world before I was taught to make distinctions between people, if that makes sense.

As for my fellow Americans, depends on who you ask. Most people I know who are not upper class or otherwise encumbered by prejudice don't give the matter much thought and would consider Italians who are citizens to be Americans in all ways. Here in California there are no groups that can reliably be made sport of anymore, with the possible exception of politicians. When I travel around the country I can't recall the last time I heard an off-color joke at the expense of anything Italian.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

I am about as white as you get, I suppose. Raised in Montgomery, AL. The only ethnic groups I was really ever aware of were black and white. I suppose I thought that if you weren't black, you were white. I worked for a Jewish-owned company as a teenager, but was never really taught or exposed to any prejudices against Jews, or at least not any that I recognized and incorporated into my thoughts.

I don't think I ever gave much thought to stereotype based on nationalities, etc.

In my mind, life here in the US is what you make of it.

Everybody has a story to tell about injustices they have suffered. I just live my life and if someone doesn't like me based on who/what/how I am and there's nothing I can do about it, I will try to be around those people as little as possible.

Anyone that wants to proclaim the American way of life and whoembraces this country and what it stands for has a right to celebrate Independence Day. Nobody can keep you from doing that.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Pentheos said:


> You actually consider this a legitimate grievance? Something going back 2,300 years?
> 
> Wow.


You obviously know nothing about the struggle of Southern Italians. Thats not meant to be condescending as I feel most don't.

By Romans, I'm not referring to the Roman Empire, before them it was the Greeks. After Rome fell a series of conquerors ruled over the South...the Vikings, the Spanish, the Moors. When Italy was "unified" in the late 1800's it was politicians based in the capital (Rome-hence my reference to "Romans") and the money flowing from the Industrial North that kept rural peasants down in the South.

Also, I'm not grieving anything here, merely asking some questions and basing those questions with a bit of personal experience. You've yet to address any of that with your snide remarks...


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

smujd said:


> Read up on the Irish experience in America.


They share a similar experience, you're right...maybe its a Roman Catholic thing. In our nation's history we've had one Catholic president...and he was assassinated (not saying it was his religion that got him killed, just saying he was killed).

When John Kerry ran for president, and I'm sure any other Catholic (Al Smith), people legitimately base voting against him because they fear a connection to the Vatican, and a strict adherence to Catholic doctrine. I think that plays a part in my "identity crisis" even though I am far from a practicing Catholic.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

smujd said:


> Yes, from your pictures, I see how subjugated you are. You have a lovely family, what appears to be a nice place in New York, a career of your choosing. What oppressive conditions.
> 
> I say this with complete sincerity--to the extent you are subjugated, it is by your own choice. So bad things happened to your people in Italy. So your people weren't immediately embraced with open arems in America. So your people had to work hard and fight to become Americans. It's not like the Mexicans, Irish, Jews, Japanese, Vietnamese, or any other groups had similar experiences.


I can see where you are coming from here re: the pictures. Most are taken outside in public spaces...my apartment is a small one, but again, I'm happy with my job, and my station in life. I'm not necessarily saying that I'm oppressed, I recognize many more have it far worse than I do, but my questions isn't stemming from that aspect of success, but a cultural one. And I'm not even saying I'm personally subjugated (although to an extent we all are), but that I was culturally denied a heritage based on my own American experience; and that many share that same feeling and experience.

Most Italians do not speak the language of their ancestors because of the bitter prejudice of Old White America that remains to an extent. I'm envious of all of those other groups you mention because they all are fairly recent additions to this country, and do NOT feel the need to give up their languages and customs to fit in, or in the case of the Irish, do not need to. Mexicans speak Spanish and English, Jews practice an ancient religion that has been passed on from generation to generation. Recent immigrants like the Vietnamese, Chinese and Middle Eastern people all hold true to their old cultures and languages (ok, maybe the Japanese share a similar cultural theft with Italians, but their numbers are no where near the numbers of Italian-Amercans).

Anyway, what sparked all this thought was the fact that I will be having a son in September, and I wanted to give him an Italian name and my wife and I were discussing the effects that could have on him later in life. Really made me think a lot about the sacrifices my ancestors made for me so I could live the life I do, but also about the price they paid, and the price which I continue to pay, along with many others.

I still think that many view Italians in a poor light, especially after reading an anthology called _The Italian American Heritage_ that my dad bought for me after graduating college. I'm not denying that we live in a great place, but discussions like this are geared toward making it an even better one by creating a dialogue of emotion.

Thank you for the dialogue, and I respect that you think its sad that I don't view myself as an American, but its how I feel. You've addressed why you feel that way, but for those who haven't said why, or for those who think it and choose not to respond, maybe you should think about how you can help make it so that people like me, and millions of other "Americans"-not just Italians-American- can feel more a part of this great nation, without having to give up who they are and where they're from.


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

rgrossicone said:


> My identity is one of the most important parts of my life, maybe more-so considering the circumstances that brought my family to these shores. All of them came around the turn of the last Century, my fathers family first through Quebec _ *then to Boston (Revere).*_ My mothers family all settled in Manhattan, at 135 Sullivan Street, in Greenwich Village, and then to Coney Island.


I grew up in Revere, as did all my current close friends. The public schools there are not great, but we all came from good families, went to good undergraduate schools and all did well. So did the majority of people that I grew up with. They were hardworking and wanting to get ahead (though I also grew up with some current LCNs and wanna-bes). Though I am not Italian, my wife considers me "Italian through osmosis."

Don't be self-hating. You have a lot to be proud of. You come from quality people.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

I'm afraid the prognosis for the Italians is dire. It's getting tough to get some "victim cred" from being one--you really should look into some of the new victimhoods if you want to establish yourself as one of the truly oppressed. There are many.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

fenway said:


> I grew up in Revere, as did all my current close friends. The public schools there are not great, but we all came from good families, went to good undergraduate schools and all did well. So did the majority of people that I grew up with. They were hardworking and wanting to get ahead (though I also grew up with some current LCNs and wanna-bes). Though I am not Italian, my wife considers me "Italian through osmosis."
> 
> Don't be self-hating. You have a lot to be proud of. You come from quality people.


I grew up in East Boston and ran errands for Mr. Z - one of the biggest loan sharks in the city. Then in HS worked at an Italian restaurant in the North End....so I was very well connected, without actually being "connected. I am 1/4 Irish, so I really couldnt ever be more than an errand boy in the club so to speak.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

PedanticTurkey said:


> I'm afraid the prognosis for the Italians is dire. It's getting tough to get some "victim cred" from being one--you really should look into some of the new victimhoods if you want to establish yourself as one of the truly oppressed. There are many.


Again, not looking for victim-cred, just a thought about my identity on this "American" holiday.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

fenway said:


> I grew up in Revere, as did all my current close friends. The public schools there are not great, but we all came from good families, went to good undergraduate schools and all did well. So did the majority of people that I grew up with. They were hardworking and wanting to get ahead (though I also grew up with some current LCNs and wanna-bes). Though I am not Italian, my wife considers me "Italian through osmosis."
> 
> Don't be self-hating. You have a lot to be proud of. You come from quality people.


On my way through to Maine three summers ago I drove through Revere. The house where my great grandfather settled was actually on the market there, and I wound up getting a realtor to show it to me (thinking I was a prospective buyer). It was run down to garbage but really cool to see the actual house my grandfather ran around in as an 8 year old boy...was on Mountain Avenue.

Funny enough, I asked the agent, "Lots of Italians here huh?" and she kind of rolled her eyes and said, "Yea, but they're alright." She didn't know I was Italian and assumed I was saying that the neighborhood wasn't so great.

Another friend of mine from Lynne calls it Severe, you know, with that Boston accent...


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## graphei (Jan 22, 2009)

I grew up in a small town in Upstate NY. We're fairly diverse, and there are Italians around, but the stereotypes are quite strong. My mother's side of the family is Northern Italian and my father's side is Southern Italian, and I have auburn hair and blue eyes. I can't tell you how many times people refuse to believe I'm 100% Italian because I have blue eyes. "Well, I've never seen an Italian with blue eyes!" is usually what I hear. 

Of course, you also have to contend with the grease ball, guido, how many bodies can you stuff in the trunk, b.s. that permeates the American landscape. When I told someone I was offended that they called me a 'ginni' I was told I needed to lighten up because that wasn't a racial slur anymore. When I said Italian-Americans have contributed greatly to this nation I got "You think the mafia is a contribution to society?" We're either no brains and all brawn (thanks Stallone) or have no problem gunning people down in the street.

My grandmother always told me that being born in America was like being born under a lucky star. However, she also made damn sure to remind me of what it means to have a real cultural heritage for the other 360 days of the year long after the turkey, fireworks, halloween masks are gone. Part of me always felt bad for the 'American' kids who have no traditions aside from those. How boring!


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

Respectfully, wounds won't heal if you keep picking at them. Most every collective of people has suffered their travails. 

And I think you should give your son an Italian name if you wish. :icon_smile:


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

rgrossicone said:


> So leave the PC stuff aside. How do you view Italian Americans and how do you perceive most "white" Americans view us.


I've never thought of Italian-Americans as being "non-white," but that may be because of living most of my life in Denver, where there really isn't an Italian-American "community." (I'd never even heard the term "guinea" used as an ethnic slur until I was 26 or so when someone quoted a line from _The Sopranos_ to me and I had to ask what it meant.) The Italian-American population here is widely dispersed. North-west Denver was the "Italian neighborhood" in the early part of the 20th Century, and there is still a disproportionate concentration of Italian restaurants there, but the Italian-American population largely drifted off to the suburbs post-WW II. Hispanic immigration also clouds the issue. (I thought a friend of mine from high school was Hispanic for several years until he mentioned his great-grandparents came from Italy and, because of the Catholic connection, I know a number of Italian/Hispanic couples.)

I tend to have the impression that the discriminatory attitudes you describe are more common back east where Italian-Americans (and other European ethnic groups, e.g., Irish, Poles, Ashkenazic Jews, etc.) are more clearly distinguishable from the "Anglo-Saxon" population. I'll emphasize that I'm not claiming the west is some ideal melting pot, but when I watch episodes of _Law & Order_ that have plots concerning anti-Irish or anti-Portugese (?!?) attitudes it's like I'm watching something from an alternate universe.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Go ahead and give your son an Italian name if you want. I have Italian friends named Vito (actually I know 3 people named Vito) and Sal. I also know a Niall and a Gerhardt. My ancestors were Irish and they started their life in the U.S. as miners. Several of them became cops. Some became tradesmen, union reps or local politicians. Quite a few of the men in my extended family are named Pat, so I guess we fit the Irish stereotype pretty well. On March 17, we're Irish, the rest of the year we're proud to be Americans.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

I grew up in a place where there were no labels aside from "black". Everyone else was essentially white, even asians.  It was a well rounded community composed of people from all over the world and a wide variety of professions.

Until recently, when I looked back at my High School yearbook, I never realized I went to school with Syrians, Jews, jordanians, Italians, Asians, Hispanics of many lands, Russians, Indians, Pakis, Iranians, etc. etc.

Big deal. Labeling people, making a label of yourself to become self ostracized, is foolish and childish. You'll find some wild racist in every bunch who not only notices difference, but discriminates or makes low class remarks based on their personal problems arising from deep seeded insecurity.

Grow up, get over it, move around the obstacle, and leave it behind. Genetics do little to make you any different from anyone else. Your personal choices, especially moral ones, DO. Unlike popular political philosophy, I do not believe moral failings come with race or should be excused by race.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Preu Pummel said:


> Big deal... making a label of yourself to become self ostracized, is foolish and childish. .


I understand what you're saying here, but have to strongly and respectfully disagree. This type of thinking is what led my parents and grandparents to lose much of their heritage, in the quest to become a "better American". Again, its not about self-loathing, but a self searching question. I bet almost any American can ask it of themselves.

Whats bothersome also is that everyone who reads this seems to think that because I view myself as "non-white", that my self image is somehow LOWER. White does not means BETTER...or WORSE...just different. The fact that we are inherently reading the word "white" and assuming that thats the ideal all American's should strive for is the root problem for all ethnic identity issues. Immigrant groups today seem to do a better job of understanding that, my building there are Pakistani, Chinese, Korean, Arab, Russian, Polish, Ukranian, Hispanic immigrants all, and they are not running to lose their cultures to be "white Americans". I hope that trend continues.


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

rgrossicone said:


> On my way through to Maine three summers ago I drove through Revere. The house where my great grandfather settled was actually on the market there, and I wound up getting a realtor to show it to me (thinking I was a prospective buyer). It was run down to garbage but really cool to see the actual house my grandfather ran around in as an 8 year old boy...was on Mountain Avenue.
> 
> Funny enough, I asked the agent, "Lots of Italians here huh?" and she kind of rolled her eyes and said, "Yea, but they're alright." She didn't know I was Italian and assumed I was saying that the neighborhood wasn't so great.
> 
> Another friend of mine from Lynne calls it Severe, you know, with that Boston accent...


Funny. I grew up a few blocks from there (in what people who want to differentiate that part of Revere from the Beach St/Shirley Ave/Beachmont sections - what realtors are calling "West Revere") and one of my best friends grew up on Mountain Ave. The areas with triple deckers (rental units) are somewhat sketchy, but it always has been that way. Where it had always been predominately Italian, with a smattering of Irish and Jews, it is less Italians, more Brazilians, Dominicans, Haitians and an Islamic community - especially Bosnians. One of my friends teaches at Revere High and says some of Asian and Hispanic gangs think they run things, but NOBODY messes with the Bosnians. They're smart, they're big, they don't want trouble, but if you mess with them, with what they've been through and what they've seen - they WILL kill you. Nobody messes with the Bosnians. Things change.

Short story about Italians. My Mom is still in the house that we grew up in, in a single family neighborhood. The most recent neighbor moved in about 15 years ago. Still all Italian. When my Dad was dying, the gentleman whose backyard faced us promised my Dad that he would watch out for my Mom and her house and make sure his garden was planted every year (they had been neighbors for 40 years). There was a step in the backyard where the concrete had broken away and my Dad was too sick to get around to fix it. We came home from the wake, and there was a form constructed around the step. I thought that it was odd, but maybe I just hadn't noticed it before. We came home from the funeral, and there was new concrete poured and the step was fixed. None of the neighbors would say that they knew anything about it. And F.P. (the neighbor) has planted his own garden and one for my mother until my mother had grass planted over it because he's getting too old to do both himself. It makes me tear up to think about how good these people, in a neighborhood that many make fun of in the Boston area, are to each other. A promise that you make to a dying man still means something. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my Mom still in her house without the neighbors around her.

Whenever I've spoken to people, especially in a business situation, many are surprised that I am from Revere. I've always been proud. Good people.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

fenway said:


> [/FONT]
> 
> Short story about Italians. My Mom is still in the house that we grew up in, in a single family neighborhood. The most recent neighbor moved in about 15 years ago. Still all Italian. When my Dad was dying, the gentleman whose backyard faced us promised my Dad that he would watch out for my Mom and her house and make sure his garden was planted every year (they had been neighbors for 40 years). There was a step in the backyard where the concrete had broken away and my Dad was too sick to get around to fix it. We came home from the wake, and there was a form constructed around the step. I thought that it was odd, but maybe I just hadn't noticed it before. We came home from the funeral, and there was new concrete poured and the step was fixed. None of the neighbors would say that they knew anything about it. And F.P. (the neighbor) has planted his own garden and one for my mother until my mother had grass planted over it because he's getting too old to do both himself. It makes me tear up to think about how good these people, in a neighborhood that many make fun of in the Boston area, are to each other. A promise that you make to a dying man still means something. I wouldn't feel comfortable with my Mom still in her house without the neighbors around her.
> 
> Whenever I've spoken to people, especially in a business situation, many are surprised that I am from Revere. I've always been proud. Good people.


Thats a beautiful story. I hope my great grandfather was a person like that, but knowing that he left Revere, and knowing he was a terrible alcoholic, and then getting such an icy response from the family of his brother leads me to believe that he didn't leave on good terms. What I saw when I was in Revere looks solidly like working class people, simple, but well kept homes and a sense of community to is articulated beautifully through your story. My dad never really talks much of his family, I hope its not out of embarrassment over their roots.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Every one!*

Gentlemen

In reading this. You all hit every country. Claimed a country, claimed a religion.
Simply put my friends.
This is America, a direct reflection of all of you.

Enjoy this my friends. It is your Army, your Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps and yes, and Coast Guard.
Because of them, you have this right. And also the right to claim America as your home!
God Bless my country!

Good day my friends


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