# motorcycles



## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

one of the things i've added to my bucket list is to learn how to ride a motorcycle. I'll be honest, motorcycles scare the crap outta me but I figured the best way to overcome my fear is to face it. Aside from taking a motorcycle safety course, what should I know about riding? What would be a good starter motorcycle in terms of power?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Between 400-500 cc is a good start. Honda makes some very forgiving bikes. 

In the days of my "ute" I rode a bike. I had about 5 different bikes culminating with a 750 Ninja. 

What's the one thing you should know about riding? It's a matter of when, not if, you're going to take a spill...seriously. Number 2, wear a helmet and a proper motorcycle jacket.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Just for around town, this would suit me!!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> Between 400-500 cc is a good start. Honda makes some very forgiving bikes.
> 
> In the days of my "ute" I rode a bike. I had about 5 different bikes culminating with a 750 Ninja.
> 
> What's the one thing you should know about riding? It's a matter of when, not if, you're going to take a spill...seriously. Number 2, wear a helmet and a proper motorcycle jacket.


First, understand that riding a motorcycle is a stupid thing to do. There is no excuse. The only reason to do it is...because it is seriously, seriously fun, which is really no good reason at all.

I started on a 1975 Honda Goldwing, which, at 1,000 cc's was way too big a beast. It was basically sink or swim, and, fortunately, I swam after a couple of close calls that, in retrospect, were likely my fault. If motorcycles truly scare the crap out of you, I would start with a Honda Rebel 250, which is what my wife started with. Then again, I found her Rebel (we are Honda people) more unwieldy when it came to turns (and turns can be difficult for beginners) than the Honda 750 Shadow she got later. The Shadow, while heavier, had a lower center of gravity than the Rebel--I always felt more confident and stable on it. In fact, I liked the 750 Shadow so much that I got one of my own, a 1100 cc Sabre that was totaled when I was rear-ended at a light with my wife riding b---h. Though we both escaped injury, it scared her enough that she sold her bike, although she'll still get on the back of mine. I have an ST1100, which isn't crazy fast, but certainly zippy and comfortable enough for extended tours. It is not for beginners, however.

I've seen stats that suggest that most people who get killed on bikes get killed during the first year or so of riding, and I think that a lot of them start out on bikes that are too big and that plays a big role. I think that most fatalities are due to rider error. Absolutely, take a motorcycle safety course. Keep practicing those turns, and don't hit the open road until you can properly execute a 90-degree turn in either direction, which will likely take you a bit of time--you are engaging in a controlled fall when you make a turn, and it can be tough to get the hang of it. I would recommend buying Twist of the Wrist. It's a book written with motorcycle racers in mind, but the information, especially on turning, is good stuff for any motorcyclist, regardless of experience level. Beyond that, trust your gut. Even with 20-some years of riding under my belt, I can still feel that some days I'm more "on" when it comes to control and awareness than other days. It's hard to explain. I'm even more cautious than usual on those days. Riding a motorcycle will absolutely make you a better driver. They'll teach you this in your safety class, but treat every car you see as if it is filled with explosives ready to go off. If you have to speed to get out of a cluster of cars, then do it. It seems obvious, but I often see motorcyclists riding amid packs of cars when it isn't necessary. Do whatever it takes to stay as far away from cars as possible, right down to taking routes on roads with less traffic. I also see motorcyclists riding side by side, which is also stupid. And stupid on a bike can be deadly. You want to remain as far away from anything that isn't a traffic lane--cars, other motorcycles, the shoulder of road--as you can at all times, and if you think of this when you're first starting out, it will become second nature. I won't ride with large groups of people because too many motorcyclists don't use common sense when it comes to keeping safe distances between each other.

I guess getting one bike totaled through no fault of my own proves SG's point that it's a matter of when, not if, but that said, I don't wear a helmet when I ride, and I often skip the jacket. Truth be told, I have tooled to the grocery store more than once wearing Topsiders. That isn't necessarily smart, but keep in mind, even if you wear all the protective garb known to man, getting on a motorcycle is still an inherently stupid thing to do. Nonetheless, you should wear all the protective garb known to man because you are just starting out, and the odds of you getting in an accident are greater than the odds of me getting in an accident. I don't wear a helmet because a proper helmet invariably results in serious neck pain for me on a ride of anything more than a few miles. Once you have sufficient experience, the helmet question is up to you (presuming you are not in a mandatory helmet state). The way I figure it, if I get into a motorcycle accident, I am probably going to be very seriously injured or killed no matter what I do. Now, my chances of sustaining a serious head injury are lessened if I wear a helmet, but the odds of death or permanent disability remain very high nonetheless. I suppose it is a matter of picking your own level of stupid. And yes, I have medical insurance.

I found a nice motorcycle jacket recently at a thrift store that I would be happy to give you for shipping cost ($10 or so) if you'd like. It is the ballistic sort, the kind with lightweight body armor on the torso, shoulders and arms--just like motorcycle road racers wear. It will offers, in my estimation, the highest degree of protection possible. Just let me know. And be careful.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

gaseousclay said:


> one of the things i've added to my bucket list is to learn how to ride a motorcycle. I'll be honest, motorcycles scare the crap outta me but I figured the best way to overcome my fear is to face it. Aside from taking a motorcycle safety course, what should I know about riding? What would be a good starter motorcycle in terms of power?


Hard to say as I don't know what's current in the USA these days. Most likely bigger bikes than most people learn on here in Europe. Something light, and about 500cc if you can find one.
Or a Harley Sportster. Not super fast but fast enough, and they make all the right noises. And they have a lowish seat, which is always good when starting out.

I learnt to ride in California, after my then girlfriend bought herself a Suzuki, so I more or less had to.

Did the Motorcycle Safety Course, which gets you a licence at the end of it, without doing any test at the DMV. We had two classroom sessions and two sessions in a parking lot riding Honda 125cc bikes.
Don't think they sold them for road use in the US.

My first bike, in 1994, was a 1982 Yamaha XV920R, which is probably far to big to start out on.
I had visions of it being a poor man's Vincent.










I still have it, albeit packed away in several boxes in my Dad's shed. Popped out of gear while tearing along Angeles Crest Highway, over-revved and bent some valves. That was over 15 years ago and I haven't got around to fixing it yet.

Then I had a BMW R100RS which was a great solid bike, but mine was plagued with problems and I never really gelled with it. Brought it back to Ireland when I left the states but after California, the weather in Ireland was far too cold and wet for me to enjoy motorcycles much. The horizontally opposed cylinders did save my leg when I had my one crash and slid the bike down a wet and muddy road. Ground a hole in the rocker cover, but I just took it off and flipped it upside down, and continued my journey.

No I have children, I'm not sure if getting the old Yamaha back on the road is such a good idea.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

While the children play a part in my deciding not to ride anymore, the most important factor is that I now live in a rather busy area. Back in the days when I lived in suburbia it was easy to avoid heavy traffic & the dangers it brings. Living on a city means constant traffic. Heavy traffic. Distracted drivers. Frustrated drivers. Etc. 

Advice to the op. Wear a bright yellow reflective vest when riding. Be as visible as possible. Lights on at all times. Strobe lights if allowed in MN. Many motorcycle accidents happen because a driver didn't see the biker.

If the bikes horn is one of the usual wimpy things found on many bikes get an aftermarket installed. If people in cars can't hear it, it's useless. Keep in mind someone driving with the windows up , music on, heating/air on, etc.

Keep your bike in gear at stoplights. You never know when you might need to move quickly. 

Research safety gear. Not everything protects equally. While 32rnr's offer is quite generous, I'd prefer to buy safety gear new. One hit can render it useless even if no evidence of damage is visible. I.E. Used helmets could have hidden flaws that affect their performance in future crashes. Saved cash doesn't do much good to a dead man.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

justonemore said:


> While the children play a part in my deciding not to ride anymore, the most important factor is that I now live in a rather busy area. Back in the days when I lived in suburbia it was easy to avoid heavy traffic & the dangers it brings. Living on a city means constant traffic. Heavy traffic. Distracted drivers. Frustrated drivers. Etc.
> 
> Advice to the op. *Wear a bright yellow reflective vest *when riding. Be as visible as possible. Lights on at all times. Strobe lights if allowed in MN. Many motorcycle accidents happen because a driver didn't see the biker.
> 
> ...


Yes, a safety vest is an excellent idea. As for used safety gear, that is definitely true for helmets--you can drop a helmet on a hard surface from three feet and compromise its integrity with no more than a minor ding/scratch visible, so you should never buy a used helmet. Not so for Joe Rocket style nylon jackets with body armor. If someone had gone down in this type of jacket, it would be, pun sorta intended, bloody obvious. You can't slide on asphalt or concrete in a nylon jacket with built-in body armor and not shred it. Also, the idea of the armor isn't so much to prevent fractures as to prevent road rash (although I suppose body armor could dissipate the impact of hitting something to an extent) so even if someone were to use a jacket that had been in a crash--and I can't imagine that anyone would since the jacket would have some serious shreds--it would still retain its ability to protect from road rash.

I will disagree, mildly, with the notion that you should leave the bike in gear at stoplights. Brain farts happen--eventually, you're going to forget the bike is in gear, let out the clutch for no reason at all that you will be able to explain later, and splat, you're stalled out and on your side. Not life threatening, perhaps, but not good, either. I guess some do and some don't. I'm in the latter camp.

The horn idea is also an excellent one. I had an air horn installed on my Goldwing, and it got people's attention like nobody's business.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

What does everyone think of the "revived" Indian brand compared to the old one? My Grandfather apparently had one in the 1960s and the 1970s, and found it to be a very enjoyable bike for personal transportation.

-Quetzal


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

I love motorsports, but not riding was one of the few things my wife asked of me when we got married. My friends that are part of that world would say that the safest way to experience it is on a track, which is a controlled environment. If money isn't an issue then there are quite a few options available in that regard, and it might be the safest way to scratch that itch.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Quetzal said:


> What does everyone think of the "revived" Indian brand compared to the old one? My Grandfather apparently had one in the 1960s and the 1970s, and found it to be a very enjoyable bike for personal transportation.
> 
> -Quetzal


No one is going to agree on this. I prefer modern technology and that means a liquid-cooled engine. They tend to be more reliable and better-performing than air-cooled motors. Also more durable--the V4 on my Honda is going to last longer without significant work than an air-cooled motor on a Harley (and, I would imagine, an Indian). The air-cooled motors are much better than they were back in the day, and if you like the sound of a potato bike, there is no substitute. Aesthetically, I think the Indian is a fine-looking motorcycle. Not as fine as a Triumph, but that's subjective, of course.

In sum, if you like the aesthetic, an Indian is fine. If you like to go fast for long distances over less-than-straight roads, I think that there are better choices.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

pleasehelp said:


> I love motorsports, but not riding was one of the few things my wife asked of me when we got married. My friends that are part of that world would say that the safest way to experience it is on a track, which is a controlled environment. If money isn't an issue then there are quite a few options available in that regard, and it might be the safest way to scratch that itch.


Ironic. I met my future wife because we both rode motorcycles. Now that she has sold hers, the only thing she asks is that I obey speed limits when she's aboard. I'm a pretty lucky fellow.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

32rollandrock said:


> No one is going to agree on this. I prefer modern technology and that means a liquid-cooled engine. They tend to be more reliable and better-performing than air-cooled motors. Also more durable--the V4 on my Honda is going to last longer without significant work than an air-cooled motor on a Harley (and, I would imagine, an Indian). The air-cooled motors are much better than they were back in the day, and if you like the sound of a potato bike, there is no substitute. Aesthetically, I think the Indian is a fine-looking motorcycle. Not as fine as a Triumph, but that's subjective, of course.
> 
> In sum, if you like the aesthetic, an Indian is fine. If you like to go fast for long distances over less-than-straight roads, I think that there are better choices.


These were actually my thoughts as well. My Granddad did not have the huge bikes that are being reproduced; rather, some smaller model that he used to go to-and-fro (it may have even been a Japanese model rather than an Indian as he also liked Yamaha, but my Father remembers seeing a small black bike with "Indian" on the side at some point), along with a '66 Ford Galaxie wagon to carry the family and supplies for his shop.

-Quetzal


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

I've been licensed to ride for almost 35 years, but my serious riding time spanned about a decade. I probably used up some seven and a half of my nine lives during that time.

Though down several times (and yes, it is "when" not "if") I never sustained serious injuries. (I have a friend whose luck was not as good. Two major incidents, neither his fault, left him in a walker in his 30s, and with a life of continual surgeries.)

When riding, I lived by a survival theory that I learned from a longtime motorcycle racer, way back when I was just beginning to ride:
As long as I kept constantly aware that 50% of the vehicles around me didn't see me................and that the other 50% _were trying to hit me_... I had a clear understanding of where I stood.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

32rollandrock said:


> I will disagree, mildly, with the notion that you should leave the bike in gear at stoplights. Brain farts happen--eventually, you're going to forget the bike is in gear, let out the clutch for no reason at all that you will be able to explain later, and splat, you're stalled out and on your side. Not life threatening, perhaps, but not good, either. I guess some do and some don't. I'm in the latter camp.


Left foot down, right foot on brake, and bike in first gear is one of the things they drum into you at the California Motorcycle Safety Course.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Quetzal said:


> These were actually my thoughts as well. My Granddad did not have the huge bikes that are being reproduced; rather, some smaller model that he used to go to-and-fro (it may have even been a Japanese model rather than an Indian as he also liked Yamaha, but my Father remembers seeing a small black bike with "Indian" on the side at some point), along with a '66 Ford Galaxie wagon to carry the family and supplies for his shop.
> 
> -Quetzal


At some point, towards the end, Indian sold some British bikes in the US under their own brand name. Off the top of my head, I think Royal Enfields.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

Odradek said:


> Left foot down, right foot on brake, and bike in first gear is one of the things they drum into you at the California Motorcycle Safety Course.


Yep. I took an AMA course at a local community college 22 years ago and that's how they taught it.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Odradek said:


> Left foot down, right foot on brake, and bike in first gear is one of the things they drum into you at the California Motorcycle Safety Course.


Absolutely. One of the few safety advantages I have on a bike is the ability to get quickly out of harm's way, if I see it coming. If I'm out of gear, I'm a sitting duck.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> Absolutely. One of the few safety advantages I have on a bike is the ability to get quickly out of harm's way, if I see it coming. If I'm out of gear, I'm a sitting duck.


I suppose I should re-consider, then. And the point about 50 percent of motorists being clueless and the other half trying to run you over is spot on. I have posted the below before, but suppose I should do it again. It is, in my opinion, the best--and most accurate--article ever published on the subject of motorcycling: https://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

My wife, although liking motorbikes in her youth (having had a dalliance, before I appeared on the scene, with a bloke with a Laverda Jota) urged me not to ride one, even more once we had two boys, partly so as not to lose me, but so as not to indirectly encourage our sons to want one.
The single most dangerous form of travel extant!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Motorcycle manufacturers are obviously uncaring, greedy, merchants of death.

Their products must be banned at most, or taxed out of existence at least.

Think of the children and the greater good!!


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

The children ,,,ohhh the humanity


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Motorcycle manufacturers are obviously uncaring, greedy, merchants of death.
> 
> *Their products must be banned at most, *or taxed out of existence at least.
> 
> Think of the children and the greater good!!


They as much as did that a few years ago by pressuring manufacturers to limit speeds. Now, there's a "gentleman's agreement" between manufacturers and fascists in the government to limit top speeds to a lousy 186 mph. That's been in effect for nearly 15 years now. Just think where we might be if not for regulators killing the free market system. No such limits apply to cars, of course, and so it is possible to buy a car today that can go 270 mph. How's that not discriminatory? Where's the justice? And what about safety? If I'm about to get run over from behind by a Hennessey Venom GT, what are my options once I reach 186 mph and the guy behind me is still gaining ground? I suppose I'm just going to have to get run off the road, thanks to the nanny state. I guess torque isn't free anymore.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Having ridden iron horses for years, my first was a Harley Davidson, as was my last. A couple of years back an arthritic spine and a left hip the orthopedic doc told me should be replaced forced me to give up my beloved Sportster. Sitting unused, out in our garage seemed such a sad end for a ride that had given me much pleasure, so it was passed on to another. Yes riding has it's risks, but also, for some, it offers unparalleled pleasures. Just as with anything we do a rider should do everything possible to minimize the risks. Take every rider safety course you can. Know your personal limits as a rider and don't be so foolish as to override your skill set. Always assume other drivers in the four wheeled contraptions don't see you and ride accordingly. Know that if you ride long enough, regardless of how good you may be, you are going to have an accident and prepare accordingly...wear proper protective clothing and never ride without a helmet! Ride hard and ride free my friends....and for those who must ask why, don't waste your time trying to provide an answer because, as that old HOG drivers saying goes, "if they have to ask, they will never understand!" Just my thought(s).


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