# Blue Jeans: is it too much to ask...



## Curmudgeon (Sep 26, 2012)

I like the fit of Levi's 514's but they feel so friggin cheap and the denim used today is not but for any rough wear. Are there any real jeans out there made in the same basic cut as the 514's but with real heavy denim?


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## emb1980 (Dec 28, 2012)

My favorite jeans. They're a modern slim straight with enough room for cowboy boots. Probably pretty close, although I haven't directly 514's to them.

https://shop.imogeneandwillie.com/products/willie-rigid


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

$250 for jeans!?


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## Curmudgeon (Sep 26, 2012)

Perhaps I should have been a little more specific in my initial post. I am not looking to spend a lot of money on a pair of jeans. (I don't even have a pair of dress pants that cost $250/pair)

It really shouldn't be that difficult to find a pair of American made jeans that are meant to be worn hard and still have a decent fit. I have given up on Levi's. Guess I'll try Wrangler although they are probably off-shored as well. I have looked at Carhart but they look like old-man jeans. (I may be 53 but I don't have to look like an old man)


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Wranglers are my favorite. They fit me better than anything else I've tried.


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## Akilae (Jan 10, 2013)

Curmudgeon said:


> Perhaps I should have been a little more specific in my initial post. I am not looking to spend a lot of money on a pair of jeans. (I don't even have a pair of dress pants that cost $250/pair) It really shouldn't be that difficult to find a pair of American made jeans that are meant to be worn hard and still have a decent fit. I have given up on Levi's. Guess I'll try Wrangler although they are probably off-shored as well. I have looked at Carhart but they look like old-man jeans. (I may be 53 but I don't have to look like an old man)


 Diamond Gusset jeans are pretty good, and made in the US. The regular fit is cut like the old Levi's 505, if that matters.


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## Curmudgeon (Sep 26, 2012)

Akilae said:


> Diamond Gusset jeans are pretty good, and made in the US. The regular fit is cut like the old Levi's 505, if that matters.


Thanks for the lead. I'll call Monday and probably order a pair.

Cheers!


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

All American Clothing Co. makes a variety of jean styles in the US which sell for $48.99.

https://www.allamericanclothing.com/


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

Wrangler's George Strait model is basically the cowboy jean but with better denim and better fit, and they come in slim, regular and loose fit, if I'm not mistaken. There is a very small and almost unnoticeable logo with the singer's initials and they are made in Mexico, if those make a difference. And they cost a few bucks more, but not much. There's a jeans thread in the Fashion Forum that discusses every possible variant, including Texas jeans, made in the USA, and another US-made called Ballroom because that's exactly where the extra room is. Neither is prohibitive. Though most US-made jeans, including some upmarket Levis, are priced at designer-jeans levels. Not for me either.


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## mfs (Mar 1, 2009)

For the past 20 years I have had very good results with Wrangler and Lee jeans.

All are reasonably priced, heavy enough denim, durable and fit well.

Through college, in the early 70's, it was Levi jeans and khakis (sun tans) with Frye boots. But the fit of Levi has changed.


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## Fatman (May 7, 2013)

Walter Denton said:


> All American Clothing Co. makes a variety of jean styles in the US which sell for $48.99.
> 
> https://www.allamericanclothing.com/


Thanks for posting this. I am going to give them a try!

I have only one pair of jeans right now, Ralph Lauren, from Macys, for about $89. They fit really well and seem well made. I could not resist trying the "Made in America" jeans you linked to, as they look like jeans from when I was a kid.


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## ichiran (May 24, 2013)

Akilae said:


> Diamond Gusset jeans are pretty good, and made in the US. The regular fit is cut like the old Levi's 505, if that matters.


The 505 is like the straight-cut 501, but with a zipper fly. The 514 is a slim fit. For a slimmer pair of jeans made in the USA (albeit at a higher price point than Diamond Gusset), perhaps you might also look into Todd Shelton:

https://toddshelton.com/product/jeans/american-dark


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Wranger 13mwz or 31mwz still use the heavier weight denim that other manufacturers seems to have done away with. I like them.


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## Curmudgeon (Sep 26, 2012)

Z


mfs said:


> Through college, in the early 70's, it was Levi jeans and khakis (sun tans) with Frye boots. But the fit of Levi has changed.


My dilemma, exactly. On a related note Frye boots are not the same either.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

Levi's 514 are both slimmer and lower rise than 501's. Wrangler Cowboy Cut 13mwz and the slimmer 936 are both higher rise than any other jeans that I can name.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

If you're willing to spend some serious money, Tellason makes a really serious pair of jeans and out of American selvage denim to boot.

https://www.tellason.com


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## ichiran (May 24, 2013)

I just thought of another purveyor of USA-made jeans. These retail at $145:
https://www.bonobos.com/b/mens-jeans


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

I see others have mentioned that the 505 is cut different than the 514, but if you get the 505 in the "Rigid Indigo" option (Style #005050217), the denim is quite substantial. 14.75 oz denim with no treatment - no chemicals, no pumice... just cardboard stiff, rugged denim. All the 514's come in 9, 10, or 11 oz denim... That's why the material feels so cheap.

Good luck in your quest; IMHO, one should not pay more than $50-$60 for a pair of jeans. Not sure if you can find the cut you are looking for, but there are quite a few places you can find high quality, USA made jeans at that price point.


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## Akilae (Jan 10, 2013)

Curmudgeon said:


> Z My dilemma, exactly. On a related note Frye boots are not the same either.


 Indeed. When they started offering such abominations such as copycat jungle boots, wannabe Red Wings, and 6-inch lace-ups, I realized they were pretty much gone. I know someone who witnessed the changeover they were sold (again), and told me straight up it's not worth paying retail price for Frye boots anymore.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

I'd spend $250 for the right pair of jeans.




For my wife.





​To wear only inside the house. And then, not for long.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

sbdivemaster said:


> I see others have mentioned that the 505 is cut different than the 514, but if you get the 505 in the "Rigid Indigo" option (Style #005050217), the denim is quite substantial. 14.75 oz denim with no treatment - no chemicals, no pumice... just cardboard stiff, rugged denim. All the 514's come in 9, 10, or 11 oz denim... That's why the material feels so cheap.
> 
> Good luck in your quest; IMHO, one should not pay more than $50-$60 for a pair of jeans. Not sure if you can find the cut you are looking for, but there are quite a few places you can find high quality, USA made jeans at that price point.


I'm not impressed with the denim in the latest 501 STF. It seems great when new but fades and wears quickly. Maybe the 505 is better. 14.5oz is very substantial!

If you _do_ like the 505, you might try the Commuter version, designed for bike commuting. Most of the Commuter line is skinny-fit low-rise 511, but there are some 505 too, in Rigid indigo. The denim in these is lighter weight (9-10oz?) but high quality and very tough, with lycra added for stretch, along with water and stain repellent. I too bristle at treated fabrics, and love the idea of pure cotton. But I'm very impressed with these, for about 80 bucks, maybe 60 on sale. Search for "505 Commuter."

I agree about paying too much for jeans.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Danny said:


> Wranger 13mwz or 31mwz still use the heavier weight denim that other manufacturers seems to have done away with. I like them.


Bingo. I have the 936s (I think) which are the slim-fit version of those. They're nice. I wear them for when I'm wearing jeans, or relatively light work.

You need pants to work in, I say get Carhartts/some other canvas work trousers or Costco jeans, and change out of them to look presentable. The Costco jeans are cheap, but they don't last _too_ long.


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## pahhhoul (Feb 4, 2009)

I've recently purchased about 5 pairs of jeans from Gustin.
Fantastic Made in USA jeans ranging from $81-$100.


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## AlfaNovember (Jun 27, 2011)

Lands End has USA jeans on sale for $75 right now. No idea of the fit.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Trad-ish said:


> $250 for jeans!?


Who's going to pay that much for jeans?


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## emb1980 (Dec 28, 2012)

Howard said:


> Who's going to pay that much for jeans?


Me, and as far as I'm concerned they were worth it.


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## ichiran (May 24, 2013)

emb1980 said:


> Me, and as far as I'm concerned they were worth it.


Once I started buying $300+ shoes, I started having more sympathy for the $250 jean crowd


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

To the OP, go to Wal-Mart and get yourself a pair of denim Wranglers or canvas Dickies.

Levi's are for people who have never worked a blue-collar job in their lives. Nothing wrong with that, but Levi's aren't working jeans.


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## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

When I wear denim I pull out my Rustler's. I got a couple pairs for $8 ea and I believe they sell them at Walmart. They are thick, rough and full cut; I don't see them tearing any time soon.


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## Ekphrastic (Oct 4, 2009)

I know that the OP mentioned he doesn't want Carhartt, but I've found their offerings to be pretty diverse lately--that's relatively speaking, of course, since Carhartt is, at its core, a workwear company. I wear a pair of 'em that I bought at a feed store. (Seriously. Smelled like horse feed for the first week I wore them.) But they're very affordable, and they're made from heavy denim. With their various fit options (they've even done some small, limited-release designs for specialty shops, but, with those, you start getting out of the price range that makes Carhartts attractive in the first place), you could probably find something that works.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Back in college, I had a couple pairs of PRL jeans - none of the $350 variety sold at actual RL stores - just the Macy's sale rack jeans. They weren't bad and had a decently long rise and straight fit, but were nicer denim than Levi's. Now, I really only wear jeans for doing dirty work, like Habitat for Humanity, or dealing with livestock when I visit my parents. Wrangler works great for that. Good fit that allows for a good range of motion. I have a pair of Gap raw selvedge jeans from a few years ago that I have never worn. The fit is right, but any time I would wear "city jeans" I would also wear khakis or flannels, which is exactly what I do.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I second the vote for Gustin. I've one pair of 13.5oz selvege. USA-made denim, USA-made jeans. Well worth the $81, as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a crap about selvege, by the way, but it is undeniable that the denim is superior to any I've ever dealt with before. Maybe it's the manufacturer (Cone). I don't know.

​


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I love the fit of Lee Regular Fit, but the quality has declined even more than with Levi's.


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## mfs (Mar 1, 2009)

Cur: I am sure you are correct on the changes to Frye boots. 

I still have and wear my original pair of Frye Campus boots I purchased in 1972 at Ramblin' Boots and Shoes, Albuquerque (resoled at least 6x). I gotta get back to Albuquerque.


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## KayGee (May 19, 2013)

I've had better luck with Dickies duck canvas than Carhartt. The Carhartts shrunk more, faded faster, and wore out quicker than Dickies...and the Dickies were $15 cheaper.


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## ichiran (May 24, 2013)

I believe that Dickies and Carhartt each have a "made in the USA" line now. I had looked into some US-made pants from Dickies, and was surprised at the price:

https://www.dickies.com/mens-clothing/mens-pants/Dickies-1922-Hemmed-Pants-784.jsp


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I would just go to Burlington Coat Factory and buy myself a $30 pair of blue jeans, not $200.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Tilton said:


> any time I would wear "city jeans" I would also wear khakis or flannels, which is exactly what I do.


I have yet to find any time where I would wear jeans over chinos. I rarely do anything outdoors that I would not either wear shorts, or chinos for. When I hunt I only hunt dove. My typical rig for that is chino's double H boots and a light sport shirt and shooting vest. We are a beach community so when I go to the beach its typical beach gear. work around the house, It's shorts.

I am probably the minority on this, but I just do not see how one could wear jeans much less heavier weight jeans while doing anything outdoors.


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## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

Chinos get dirty easily and need to be more frequently laundered. They are also more susceptible to tearing. If I'm doing anything that requires physical effort I prefer jeans for their durability. I simply just don't have to worry about their well-being as much. I'm also in the camp that would never pay more than $20 for blue jeans. If I want to look good I wear real pants.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

I think we're all pretty much in the same boat. Chinos are just more comfortable to wear out. Unless I'm doing actual labor, jeans are more trouble than they're worth to me.

In the dove fields here, which are mostly post-harvest corn fields or second cut hay fields, I usually just wear chino shorts or, if it is really hot, a pair of Columbia fishing shorts. I've never once been dove hunting and not been swelteringly hot, so I also enjoy wearing an olive green long sleeve fishing-type shirt as well. Making me want for bird season, now. I missed almost all of hunting season last year.


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## Timeisaperception (Oct 26, 2011)

I have a pair of Texas Jeans; the cowboy slim is exactly that. Good rise on em, tapered throughout - but make sure to compare your waist measurements, because they still use the old school heavy duty denim. Comparable to a pair of old 501's, sans the taper of course. Wally World Wranglers are also good for beating around in, though I've noticed a decline in quality since I started buying them a few years back.

And since I saw a brief mention of jeans and manual labor, I find much better success with lightweight 65/35 blends down here in Florida. They dry a lot faster, wear lighter, and don't retain dirt as much as the 100% cotton brethren.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> I second the vote for Gustin. I've one pair of 13.5oz selvege. USA-made denim, USA-made jeans. Well worth the $81, as far as I'm concerned. I don't give a crap about selvege, by the way, but it is undeniable that the denim is superior to any I've ever dealt with before. Maybe it's the manufacturer (Cone). I don't know.


Have you ordered from Gustin at all? I'm curious how you find ordering from them.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Uncle Bill said:


> Have you ordered from Gustin at all? I'm curious how you find ordering from them.


Yes, i have. It requires patience since Gustin works like a permanent Kickstarter. They dont always offer a denim you might want. You have to keep checking...I get email updates about what's available. Then, if you want what they're offering, you commit to buying. When they reach 100% of their required funding, they start production. It moves fast after that.

Service is great. I emailed all sorts of dumb nube questions about selvege raw denim, and Josh Gustin always answered my questions patiently and promptly. Moreover, I recently had a problem due to a manufacturing defect: a rivet popped. I emailed with pics, and Josh emailed FAST in response to express his dismay and offer to fix it. I'm putting my jeans in the mail tomorrow.

I love the denim so much that I can't imagine not buying "premium" denim again, and I'll stick with Gustin. The next best option is Bonobos, which I think goes for about $150. By the way, in a recent update from Gustin, they announced that they're almost ready to roll out some shirts. I'm very interested. Maybe he can be talked into doing OCBDs.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

TradThrifter said:


> Chinos get dirty easily and need to be more frequently laundered. They are also more susceptible to tearing. If I'm doing anything that requires physical effort I prefer jeans for their durability. I simply just don't have to worry about their well-being as much.


^This. This! THIS!!! Let's be real here -- jeans have been around as workwear since the late 19th century and have performed their intended job quite well over the decades. I don't think you can get any more Trad or authentic or whatever than that.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> Yes, i have. It requires patience since Gustin works like a permanent Kickstarter. They dont always offer a denim you might want. You have to keep checking...I get email updates about what's available. Then, if you want what they're offering, you commit to buying. When they reach 100% of their required funding, they start production. It moves fast after that.
> 
> Service is great. I emailed all sorts of dumb nube questions about selvege raw denim, and Josh Gustin always answered my questions patiently and promptly. Moreover, I recently had a problem due to a manufacturing defect: a rivet popped. I emailed with pics, and Josh emailed FAST in response to express his dismay and offer to fix it. I'm putting my jeans in the mail tomorrow.
> 
> I love the denim so much that I can't imagine not buying "premium" denim again, and I'll stick with Gustin. The next best option is Bonobos, which I think goes for about $150. By the way, in a recent update from Gustin, they announced that they're almost ready to roll out some shirts. I'm very interested. Maybe he can be talked into doing OCBDs.


Good to hear and I read that they also take international orders too. I might try a pair or two in a few months. Gustin's value proposition is you're getting premium selvage jeans at wholesale pricing.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

ichiran said:


> I believe that Dickies and Carhartt each have a "made in the USA" line now. I had looked into some US-made pants from Dickies, and was surprised at the price:
> 
> https://www.dickies.com/mens-clothing/mens-pants/Dickies-1922-Hemmed-Pants-784.jsp


Yes, the Dickies MIA clothing is inexplicably expensive. It's a little sad, because I like Dickies, but if I'm going to consider paying those prices for workwear, I'd consider Filson first.


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## ichiran (May 24, 2013)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Yes, the Dickies MIA clothing is inexplicably expensive. It's a little sad, because I like Dickies, but if I'm going to consider paying those prices for workwear, I'd consider Filson first.


Good point. It's hard to imagine who might be going to Dickies for $190 pants...


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## mualphapiper (Dec 13, 2009)

For affordable made in USA (very basic):

--- $52

--- $35


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Yes, the Dickies MIA clothing is inexplicably expensive. It's a little sad, because I like Dickies, but if I'm going to consider paying those prices for workwear, I'd consider Filson first.


I'd be careful about that statement until I actually saw the pants. IME Dickies have decent tailoring and quality control. In Cramerton cloth with button fly and nice buttons they may even be nicer than Bills.

Similar materials and USA manufacture, similar cost?

Let's talk about the actual clothes, and leave "branding" to airy-fairy fashion magazines.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

mualphapiper said:


> For affordable made in USA (very basic):
> 
> --- $52
> 
> --- $35


Hahahaha



Pointer Brand Original American Blue Jeans said:


> *Pre-Washed BUT WITHOUT Tears, Holes, Patches or Wiskers (you're not a cat) *


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## Curmudgeon (Sep 26, 2012)

_*Epilogue*_: Ordered two pair of jeans from *Diamond Gusset* (Slim Backstage Boot and traditional Button Fly). The material is relatively heavy (wouldn't want it any heavier for a casual jean), workmanship is at least as good as Levi's and probably better. Fit: the button fly reminds me of the 501's from the late 70's with plenty of room for boots. The fit is relaxed but not baggy. Probably closest to a 505. The Slim Backstage is slim but not skinny and there is a little but of flair for boots. The fit is close to a 514. I like them both - well worth the price.

Thanks again for the advice and direction.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Uncle Bill said:


> Good to hear and I read that they also take international orders too. I might try a pair or two in a few months. Gustin's value proposition is you're getting premium selvage jeans at wholesale pricing.


Update: I couldn't wait for a few months and ordered a pair of straight fits in the broken weave denim run which got funded last week so I should see them in July. I will report back then.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Curmudgeon said:


> _*Epilogue*_: Ordered two pair of jeans from *Diamond Gusset* (Slim Backstage Boot and traditional Button Fly).


lol I thought about mentioning them, but also thought that they might be outside what you were looking for. I heard many good things about them, so it's good to hear that your initial impression is good. If possible, give us an update in a few months, after they've had some wear and washes.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestion of Diamond Gusset. Good price and the Regular Fit has a nice, dark blue denim I look for. I may check them out.


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## Akilae (Jan 10, 2013)

Nice to see the Diamond Gussets are working for you! My own DG jeans are going on half a year, and they still look pretty much like the day I bought them. We'll see how they do a few more years down the road!


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