# What's up with "Dandy"



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Am I the only one that thinks that the word "dandy" has a negative connotation? It seems that a lot of people who are very interested in clothes like to think of themselves as "dandies" or are flattered when others call them a "dandy." Personally, I would take being called a "dandy" as an insult because I think that it implies laziness, unproductiveness, and frivolity. Although I'm very interested in clothing and looking good, my reason for that is because I think that it affects my image in other areas of life. My clothes don't define me, they're just a small part of who I am and what I do; whereas I feel that a "dandy" is someone that is defined by his clothes, and there's nothing more to him.

Any opinions?

_I fought the law and the law won._​


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Yes, you're the only one.


----------



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> Yes, you're the only one.


Why am I not surprised? Did I hit a sore spot? [}]

_I fought the law and the law won._​


----------



## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

I can't say that "Dandy" is in my regular vocabulary. I think when referring to a well to do man, it is a dated term. I don't like it because, unless I'm in a conversation about a well dressed man there just doesn't seem to be the right time for "Dandy."

So I wouldn't say negative, I'd say a more dated word.

_Deny Guilt, Demand Proof and Never Speak Without an Attorney!_​


----------



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Trenditional_
> 
> I can't say that "Dandy" is in my regular vocabulary. I think when referring to a well to do man, it is a dated term. I don't like it because, unless I'm in a conversation about a well dressed man there just doesn't seem to be the right time for "Dandy."
> 
> ...


The word came up recently in a classroom discussion of the Merchant of Venice. The character "Bassanio" was referred to as a dandy, and the word was not generally used in a positive way. That's what got me thinking about it.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


----------



## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> Am I the only one that thinks that the word "dandy" has a negative connotation? It seems that a lot of people who are very interested in clothes like to think of themselves as "dandies" or are flattered when others call them a "dandy." Personally, I would take being called a "dandy" as an insult because I think that it implies laziness, unproductiveness, and frivolity. Although I'm very interested in clothing and looking good, my reason for that is because I think that it affects my image in other areas of life. My clothes don't define me, they're just a small part of who I am and what I do; whereas I feel that a "dandy" is someone that is defined by his clothes, and there's nothing more to him.
> 
> ...


Read the Social Class thread just started by Gentle Cheetah.


----------



## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> Yes, you're the only one.


You know, sometimes your post are simply the best...
Cheers
PS I don't think dandy has negative connotations.


----------



## longwing (Mar 28, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> Am I the only one that thinks that the word "dandy" has a negative connotation? It seems that a lot of people who are very interested in clothes like to think of themselves as "dandies" or are flattered when others call them a "dandy." Personally, I would take being called a "dandy" as an insult because I think that it implies laziness, unproductiveness, and frivolity. Although I'm very interested in clothing and looking good, my reason for that is because I think that it affects my image in other areas of life. My clothes don't define me, they're just a small part of who I am and what I do; whereas I feel that a "dandy" is someone that is defined by his clothes, and there's nothing more to him.
> 
> ...


How about fop? Although a synonym, I like it a lot better. Kind of self mocking. Not taking it too seriously.


----------



## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

The term "dandy" certainly does have negative connotations for most people. The question is whether that bothers you. If you are a true dandy then it won't. Unproductiveness and frivolity are certainly implied by the term. Laziness no: the dandy expends a lot of time and energy pursuing unproductive and futile ends. Being a dandy (like being a fogey) is an attitude.

Maybe you're not a dandy - more a careful dresser, or someone who "cares for his appearance", as my English godmother used to say, or who is "always well turned-out", in which case "dandy" would be a misnomer.


----------



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JRR_
> 
> Read the Social Class thread just started by Gentle Cheetah.


So I guess I don't understand dandies and find them more or less repulsive because of my upper-labor/lower-middle class upbringing. [:0]

_I fought the law and the law won._​


----------



## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

I have never liked the word, either.


----------



## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

I would never go all the way to dandy, but wouldn't mind being called, "a bit of a dandy." That is indefinite and not all the way to dandytown. 

Joe


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I, for one, love being considered a "dandy"--one of the highest compliments someone could give me!

For some 40 years I have loved the lines from Roy Campbell's mini-epic "The Flaming Terrapin" on Bellerphon:

"And splashed with stars and dashed with stinging spray, 
The dandy of the prairies rode away!"

A true dandy and a fop are very different beings, even though I am not infrequently accused of being the latter! One of my best friends suggested they inscribe of my headstone something like:

Jan Michael Libourel
1942-2018

Fop

Future generations of archaeologist could puzzle over the obscure term. It's quite amazing how many semi-educated people do not know the term "fop," BTW.


----------



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> I, for one, love being considered a "dandy"--one of the highest compliments someone could give me!
> 
> ...


So, I guess it all depends on how people take it. If you like being considered a dandy then being called a dandy is a compliment, and if you don't then it is an insult. That's kind of interesting, there aren't too many words that I can thing of that are like that.

Well, although I try to dress nice, I don't think anyone would consider me a dandy. My attire is usually much too practical to be dandyish.

I also have rules that I stick to:

No light colored suits (light gray is okay)
Only brown or black shoes
Only solid colored pocket squares
Never, under any circumstances, ever, any ascots
Very little waist suppression in my suits
No pumps

_I fought the law and the law won._​


----------



## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was with you until the pumps. I can't and won't give those up.

_Deny Guilt, Demand Proof and Never Speak Without an Attorney!_​


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, "different strokes" and all that!

I'd love to have both a light tan and an ivory or cream colored suit. Hope to get 'em one of these days!

Only black or brown? Not even tan or burgundy? Or are these comprehended in "brown"? I love white bucks and spectator shoes. Wish I had more!

Only solid-colored pocket squares? That one strikes me as a little odd. There are some on this forum who will tell you that they consider solid-colored squares (other than white linen) cheesy and "Goodfellas-ish." I am not of that school--most of my squares are solid-colored. However, I was never aware that patterned squares were more flamboyant or foppish.

Love ascots! Just bought a new one a few weeks ago. I'd wear them practically all the time I wasn't wearing a tie if my wife didn't hate them so much.

I like a fair amount of waist suppression. I have a nice trim waist for an old geezer, so I might as well flaunt it as long as I've got it!

I really never have any occasions to wear a tuxedo, much less white tie, but if I did, I'd certainly want to be in pumps. Although they may look effete to contemporary sensibilities, I especially like them because they hark back to an era when gentlemen frequently wore swords and settled affairs of honor with the "arme blanche."

Oh well, suum cuique!


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I know you are well-versed in guns.

Can you hold your own in a sword fight, too??


----------



## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> I know you are well-versed in guns.
> 
> Can you hold your own in a sword fight, too??


Why bring a big knife, when a gun is so much easier?

_Deny Guilt, Demand Proof and Never Speak Without an Attorney!_​


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> I know you are well-versed in guns.
> 
> Can you hold your own in a sword fight, too??


Nope, never had any training in fencing, kendo or the like! Besides, I am an old man these days!

Had I lived in an era when mastery of the sword was a necessary gentlemanly accomplishment, I should certainly have made the effort. Candor demands, however, that I confess that I would have been much better suited for wielding something like a two-handed broadsword than the more delicate art of the rapier.


----------



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

I guess this is the beauty of AAAC. JLib and I are about as different as day and night but we can come on here and discuss what we have in common. That's cool.

As for shoes, I might consider wearing burgundy (though, probably not), but definitely not tan.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> I guess this is the beauty of AAAC. JLib and I are about as different as day and night but we can come on here and discuss what we have in common. That's cool.
> 
> ...


Well, de gustibus non est disputandum, as they say.

I'd still like to know the rationale for your rule about the solid-colored-only pocket squares. All your other rules are perfectly comprehensible to me, even if I don't follow them. In fact, I am little surprised you wear pocket squares at all since, since many men consider them on the flamboyant/foppish side, among them one frequent poster of the "Trad" persuasion now departed from our ranks.


----------



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My rationale for the solid-colored-only pocket squares rule. Hmm. Well, I guess I just base it on observations that I have made of people who wear this type of thing. I've found that people who are wearing solid-colored pocket squares are usually well-dressed gentlemen who are more serious and "down-to-business" types. On the other hand, people I've observed wearing multi-color or patterned pocket squares have always struck as more flamboyant types. For example, I see lawyers that I deal with sometimes wear pocket squares and they are usually solid colored, whereas a lot of the "artsy" people that I run into will wear patterned pocket squares.

Not sure that I can give you any better reason than my own observations and the impressions that those observations have had on me.

This forum has been breaking me down somewhat recently though. Until last summer I also refused to wear French cuffs and wore barrell cuffs exclusively. I now have 3 shirts with french cuffs that I enjoy and I plan on purchasing several more in the near future.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Paradoxically, I don't own a single French cuff shirt. I'd like to, but it's just one of those things. I'd then have to invest in some nice links, but I've always had a horror of losing them, the way I did back in the days of my youth. Happily, they were cheap links, and I was young, so maybe that wouldn't happen today.

I actually ordered my first shirt from W.W. Chan with French cuffs, but they screwed up and sent barrel cuffs, and I went ahead and had the four subsequent shirts I got from them made with barrel cuffs. Maybe I should get a few French cuffed shirts. They are indubitably more elegant.


----------



## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> Yes, you're the only one.


No he's not the only one. I don't care for the word either. It has negative connotations as far as I am concerned. So does "Fogey".

However, for this forum, these words are fine in that they convey a specific meaning that is not negative.

"Trad", I kinda like.

M8

_Currently posting from Angola_


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I would think of a "Dandy" as a frivolous lightweight. I would doubly think that of anyone proud to be called that.

However, there is absolutely nothing wrong with dressing well. 

It's just that for a "Dandy" it is far too important.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> Well, de gustibus non est disputandum, as they say.


Thank you! I have been trying to think of the Latin phrasing for, "Over tastes, there can be no arguments" for about two weeks now. I mentioned it on another thread that I could not remember the Latin.

Warmest regards


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Leave it to our Eloquent Jan Libourel to know the phrase and use it so beautifully!


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Thank you for the kind words, gentlemen.


----------



## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

I'd be very happy if someone from this forum called me a dandy. 

I would be a bit worried if someone on the street called me one.

I would be postively disturbed to be called a fop or worse, fogey!

I do get called "dapper" every once in a while - I like that one.


----------

