# American Trad men (photos)...



## Doctor Damage

Having dug out a number of photos to illustrate various trad threads for my own reference, I have decided to post some of the more interesting ones here.

Archibald Cox, for starters.


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## Russell Street

More please - 

Very enjoyable.

Russell


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## longwing

Ahh, this may have to be my summer of surcingle. I wonder what shoes he's wearing.


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## Albert

The good old times...

What I would give to live in the US in the 50s...


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## Russell Street

It's a silly observation, I know, but I like the way he stands up _properly_.

Russell


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## Russell Street

Slightly random thought -

JFK had a bad back, that we all know. But he looked *good* slightly stooped, not many other men do.

Russell


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## Doctor Damage

More A. Cox, the first one crossing Harvard Yard to his first press conference after being announced as the Watergate prosecutor, the second being sworn in as same. Ramrod straight posture: trad.


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## Doctor Damage

Ooops, almost forgot: Elliot Richardson on the right in the 'swearing in' photo...note sack suit.

DocD


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## Russell Street

I've amused you, but I don't mind.

Those last two are *very* good -

I'm ashamed that I haven't a clue who the man is.

I like him though.

Russell


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## mpcsb

Doc great photos.
Anytime you want to add more...go right ahead.
What do you do just google a name, copy and paste?
Anyway, thanks.
Cheers


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## Fogey

In my mind, I've always associated Gregory Peck in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' as a cardinal example of the best of American Trad - not just in dress, but in demeanour and virtue.


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## Russell Street

I especially like the length of his trousers -

All my life I've found that what looks good standing still often looks _just_ too short when walking. But not here.

Russell


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## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> In my mind, I've always associated Gregory Peck in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' as a cardinal example of the best of American Trad - not just in dress, but in demeanour and virtue.


Check out the blonde tortoise shell p-3 (Liberty/Full-View/Fulvue) shaped frames that Peck is sporting. Sharp!

-Harris


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## Russell Street

I love that 'Southern' Trad look, I only wish it suited the English weather better...

For a long time I was torn between the New England manifestation of Trad. and that gentlemanly Southern look...
I picked Brooks/Press/Bean because I lived in weather that suited the look.

Maybe I should have just moved house instead?

To live in seersucker and madras wouldn't be such a hardship!

Russell


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## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> 
> I love that 'Southern' Trad look, I only wish it suited the English weather better...
> 
> For a long time I was torn between the New England manifestation of Trad. and that gentlemanly Southern look...
> I picked Brooks/Press/Bean because I lived in weather that suited the look.
> 
> Maybe I should have just moved house instead?
> 
> To live in seersucker and madras wouldn't be such a hardship!
> 
> Russell


Russell, don't fret. That Peck/Finch look is as "Yankee" as it "Southern." In fact, here's a guess I'll wager: while you see (relatively) quite a bit of that particular style of frame around NYC and in New England, you probably see little of it below the Mason Dixon. Can't be sure. Just a guess.

As for the seersucker and/or pincord: again, not necessarily "Southern." In fact, I believe I'm correct that Brooks brought seersucker to the U.S. So, it could be as much a "New York" thing as a "Southern" thing. Both Southerners and Yankees can agree that it's an "East Coast" thing.

But then you have to consider that one of the better trad shops is located in San Francisco. Now I'm really confused.

-Harris


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## shuman

Why do you suppose this about those frames? Notice more wire rims down south? Guess it would have to be that certain wire rim...


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## Fogey

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> In my mind, I've always associated Gregory Peck in 'To Kill a Mockingbird' as a cardinal example of the best of American Trad - not just in dress, but in demeanour and virtue.
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the blonde tortoise shell p-3 (Liberty/Full-View/Fulvue) shaped frames that Peck is sporting. Sharp!
> 
> -Harris
Click to expand...

Yes, and how he dispassionately removes them and wipes them off when spat upon by the yokel, instead of pulling out a revolver and shooting him. He was a gentleman.


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## Russell Street

Harris -

Really interesting - Thank you.

On this side of the Atlantic our ideas of Northern & Southern Trad. must seem cartoon-ish to you.

Probably I'm safe in saying that most ordinary English men who like American clothes (and who have access to London) got their education in these matters from the shops of John Simons from 1965 to date.

So a London boy dressed like an American will always look like a London boy dresed like an American. We'll never really get that... _polish_ of the originals!

Fun trying, though...

Russell


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## Chris H

> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> 
> On this side of the Atlantic our ideas of Northern & Southern Trad. must seem cartoon-ish to you.
> 
> Probably I'm safe in saying that most ordinary English men who like American clothes (and who have access to London) got their education in these matters from the shops of John Simons from 1965 to date.
> 
> So a London boy dressed like an American will always look like a London boy dresed like an American. We'll never really get that... _polish_ of the originals!
> 
> Fun trying, though...
> 
> Russell


Hello Russell,

As fellow Londoner with a fascination for traditional American clothes your posts strike a chord with me. I wondered if you ever shopped at Austins in Shaftesbury Avenue? I understand John Simon worked there in the late 1950s, well before starting the Ivy shop.

Regards
Chris


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## Russell Street

Hi there Chris - 

(I've enjoyed your posts in the past very much - thank you for them.)

I'm getting on now but sadly I'm not old enough to have shopped at Austins, David's, Clothesville etc.
My knowledge of American clothes starts up on Richmond Hill in the '70's.

I never knew Mr.S. had worked at Austins. Cecil Gee & Burberry yes, but not Austins. Interesting.

I always knew Ian at the Ivy (circa '87 and before) as Ian Roberts, someone told me recently that he was actually called Ian Strachan (or something similar) and had 'retired' to the Forest of Dean. Not that it matters, but what do you know about that? He was a very nice man.

Good to hear from you. I believe Arrow were the shirts at Austins way back when. Is that correct?

Where does the 'Village Gate' chain of shops fit into Mr.S.'s story? It would have been in the '70's too. Do you know? I was in the V&A a while back and they had a V.G. overcoat (I think) as part of one of their displays. A dark green tweedy check, I think. Anyway...

Just curious.

Best Wishes,

Russell

(Obviously You'll get the joke of my name)


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## Russell Street

One more thing Chris - 

I never visited the Squire shop either. Any memories?

R.


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## Mr. Knightly

> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> We'll never really get that... _polish_ of the originals!
> 
> Fun trying, though...
> 
> Russell


In the case of trad, "polish" might actually be defined as a lack of polish.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


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## mpcsb

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Knightly_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> We'll never really get that... _polish_ of the originals!
> 
> Fun trying, though...
> 
> Russell
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of trad, "polish" might actually be defined as a lack of polish.
> 
> Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
> But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
> For the apparel oft proclaims the man.
Click to expand...

And often not ironed


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## Russell Street

The whole 'not polished & not ironed' thing is a really good point - I have to work _hard_ not to over-iron my BDs or shine up my loafers too often.
It's an odd thing... working hard to make the look appear casual.
And I'm sure I still get it wrong and look too neat.
You either love these clothes or you don't. And if you _do_ then looking after them too well is a big temptation.

Russell


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## mpcsb

> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> 
> The whole 'not polished & not ironed' thing is a really good point - I have to work _hard_ not to over-iron my BDs or shine up my loafers too often.
> It's an odd thing... working hard to make the look appear casual.
> And I'm sure I still get it wrong and look too neat.
> You either love these clothes or you don't. And if you _do_ then looking after them too well is a big temptation.
> 
> Russell


Russell,
Don't forget frayed, collars and cuffs on OCBD, boxers, cuffs and pockets on khakis, the worn edges of corduroy. There is no such thing as a worn out sock, as socks are seldom worn - LOL


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## mpcsb

Back on topic: RFK


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## Russell Street

Sorry I forget that we're doing topics here. (I'm new to all this)

Wonderfully lived-in faces those Kennedys sport...

An important part of 'the look', I think, once you reach a certain age.

Russell


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## Fogey

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_


Very nice RFK pictures, thank-you.


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## Wimsey

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Russell, don't fret. That Peck/Finch look is as "Yankee" as it "Southern." In fact, here's a guess I'll wager: while you see (relatively) quite a bit of that particular style of frame around NYC and in New England, you probably see little of it below the Mason Dixon. Can't be sure. Just a guess.
> 
> As for the seersucker and/or pincord: again, not necessarily "Southern." In fact, I believe I'm correct that Brooks brought seersucker to the U.S. So, it could be as much a "New York" thing as a "Southern" thing. Both Southerners and Yankees can agree that it's an "East Coast" thing.
> 
> But then you have to consider that one of the better trad shops is located in San Francisco. Now I'm really confused.
> 
> -Harris


I think Peck looks more Yankee than southern in that picture. Remember, this is not a photo of an actual person; this is a photo of Hollywood in 1962 dressing a man to look like a southerner in 1932 *but* trying to make him look good *and* enlightened *and* smart.

So they gave him contemporary (for the time) frames, which have "New England" written all over them, and which also say "intellectual", a white suit (which does suggest the south), and a vest plus pocketwatch, which suggests "old fashioned gentleman". (I do have to wonder how many men in non-airconditioned southern alabama actually wore vests in the 30's, particularly when they were in crowded and presumably very hot courtrooms.)

I do think that Atticus looked great in the movie, but I don't think he's a good example of "southern trad" (whatever that is).

(For people who have seen the movie, there is an earlier scene where the judge comes and asks Atticus to defend Tom Robinson. The judge is wearing a baggy white suit, *I think* poplin or linen, very wrinkled, very loose fitting - this is probably accurate for that time, place, and season. Unfortunately, to modern eyes it looks sort of ... slovenly.)

I'll disgree that seersucker is an east coast thing - when I was growing up (and before), it was very common in Kentucky, which is not at all on the east coast. I suspect it was also pretty common in TN, MS, and AL, although I'm not certain of that. Maybe it's an east coast and southeastern thing...


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## Tomasso

Wally Cox (Trad must run in the Cox family), actor and comedian.










Wally was known to be quite the ladies man.










Wally and Marlon Brando were lifelong best friends since nine years of age.










Wally died young(heart attack at 48) and Marlon took it hard, never getting over it. He carried Wally's ashes with him, wherever he went, for the rest of his life.


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## Horace

Cox's collar in the swearing in photo is beautifully rumpled -- even for a BD collar.


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## jklu

Note RFK's single link cuffs.


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## Chris H

> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> 
> Hi there Chris -
> 
> (I've enjoyed your posts in the past very much - thank you for them.)
> 
> I'm getting on now but sadly I'm not old enough to have shopped at Austins, David's, Clothesville etc.
> My knowledge of American clothes starts up on Richmond Hill in the '70's.
> 
> I never knew Mr.S. had worked at Austins. Cecil Gee & Burberry yes, but not Austins. Interesting.
> 
> I always knew Ian at the Ivy (circa '87 and before) as Ian Roberts, someone told me recently that he was actually called Ian Strachan (or something similar) and had 'retired' to the Forest of Dean. Not that it matters, but what do you know about that? He was a very nice man.
> 
> Good to hear from you. I believe Arrow were the shirts at Austins way back when. Is that correct?
> 
> Where does the 'Village Gate' chain of shops fit into Mr.S.'s story? It would have been in the '70's too. Do you know? I was in the V&A a while back and they had a V.G. overcoat (I think) as part of one of their displays. A dark green tweedy check, I think. Anyway...
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Best Wishes,
> 
> Russell
> 
> (Obviously You'll get the joke of my name)


Hi Russell,

I was told that John worked as a window dresser at Austins, I have not checked this out with the man himself, so it might be mixed up with Cecil Gee which was only a few doors away. As I suspect you probably know, Austins was very popular with young musicians back then. I believe Georgie Fame, Charlie Watts, Andrew Loog Oldham and Eric Clapton were all customers in the early 1960s.

I first shopped at Austins in 1964, it was quite a lot more expensive than Cecil Gee but, you were getting the real US-made deal. Among the BDs sold I remember Gant, Arrow and (I think) Sero. I bought a couple of the Arrow roll-collar BDs. These shirts had flexible stiffeners in the collar which could be used to adjust the roll. I also bought two madras jackets from Austin around this time.

My first purchases from John Simon were made at the Squire Shop, Brewer Street in the late 1968. Over the next couple of years I bought striped oxford cloth BDs, shetland crew-necks, Baracuta G9 and sta-press Levis from both the Squire Shop and also Village Gate which opened a year or two later in Old Compton Street. In the early 1970s another Squire shop opened in the King's Road. This shop sold mainly the tight fitting two-button, three piece French-style suits, flared trousers, ultra slim-fit silk shirts and other clothing that was popular at that time.

This is really bringing back some memories.

Regards
Chris


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## Doctor Damage

Some photos of GHWB, from school and earlier political days (pre-Vice President). In the group shot, GHWB is just to the left of the clock.


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## [email protected]

all these people look the same


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## Horace

> quote:_Originally posted by [email protected]_
> 
> all these people look the same


That's the point, perhaps...

The Bones picture is creepy...


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## manton

> quote:_Originally posted by Horace_
> 
> The Bones picture is creepy...


Isn't the penalty for leaking pictures from that place, like, death? Or something?


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## kidkim2

Remember the first line of Anna Karenina.


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## Jean-Francois

Why do they wear their sleeves so long (not showing any shirt)? Is it intentional?

And it seems that all of them wear uncuffed plain-front pants. Do the pants have to be uncuffed?


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## Horace

> quote:_Originally posted by manton_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by Horace_
> 
> The Bones picture is creepy...
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't the penalty for leaking pictures from that place, like, death? Or something?
Click to expand...

I don't remember -- it's something gruesome I think. I remember reading a book on it pub'd in the early 80's by a fellow at the Hoover Institute of all places.


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## Russell Street

*Doctor Damage* - Really good pictures, thank you very much.

*Chris* - I envy you such London Ivy credentials! Good to have the _real_ G9 back isn't it? I was worried that the quality might have been lost, but not a bit of it. The price is very different to what it used to be though (!), then again look at what you're getting for it. Well worth the money.
I heard that the shop assistants at Austins were all middle-aged men who were slightly bemused by the ever younger and fashionable customers who were visiting them. They couldn't quite understand why people wanted their trousers to break in the Trad way and not to flop all over their shoes in the European way. That was a story I heard anyway.

Regards, Russell


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## brass4321

nothing from this century?


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## shuman

Thats the whole point of Trad, isnt it?


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## Trimmer

*
Originally posted by Chris H . . . Russell Street

. . . and also Village Gate which opened a year or two later in Old Compton Street. .*

_____________________________________________________________________

'The Village Gate' that brings back memories. There was a chain of them with a variety of names. They sold shirts under the name 'Cassidy', not exactly Jermyn Street but much better than 'Canda' of Oxford Street. They were probably my introduction to sartorial pleasures. I owe them a lot.

Trimmer


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## Doctor Damage

More photos of GHWB, the Congress years. The sack he's wearing in the first photo makes up for the one he's wearing in the earlier photos.





GWHB with brood. Love those loafers he's wearing on the elephant.


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## mpcsb

Doc, great additions, thanks.
Cheers


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## Stuttjukken

Great photos of welldressed and respectable people. I like it.

Short and stout/heavyweight busdriver in Bergen, Norway. My favorite clothes are polywool trousers.


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## brass4321

I expected to see a current pic of someone whose style is a good example of trad (besides Prince Charles)- I'm just trying to get a better sense of who you all think pulls the trad look off well today - Jude Law perhaps?


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## brass4321

sorry - not American - my bad - anyone?


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## Doctor Damage

> quote:_Originally posted by brass4321_
> 
> sorry - not American - my bad - anyone?


I suspect that very few non-Americans are currently doing the 'American trad' style; certainly Prince Charles is not 'trad' in the context we are using here. Even in the US, I suspect most public figures have adopted more anonymous clothing, which means of course boring 2-piece darted suits in dark colours.

Lincoln Chaffee does wear some trad stuff, which I will post photos of soon.

DocD


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## Foghorn

I submit:

ubertrad



Regards,
F


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## Bowdoin

In addition to those listed above (Cox, GHWB, RFK), all of these men are/were at least somewhat trad:

Daniel Patrick Moynihan
https://www.economist.com/images/20030329/1303OB3.jpg

George Plimpton
https://www.thecolumnists.com/johnson/johnson46art1.jpg

Lewis Powell
https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/lewis_powell.gif

John O'Hara

Ralph Ellison
https://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/ellison_ralph.jpg

George Will

Young William F. Buckley

John Paul Stevens
https://www.oyez.org/oyez/support/justices/portraits/Stevens.gif

Anthony Williams

Fred Rogers

Fred Barnes

John Bolton
https://browndailysqueal.com/archives/BUSH_UN_AMBASSADOR.sff_DCCD105_20050307135535.jpg
https://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/04/18/johnbolton_narrowweb__200x268.jpg

Tucker Carlson

Sam Waterston (as A.D.A. Jack McCoy, Law & Order)

Michael Moriarty (as A.D.A. Ben Stone, Law & Order)

Young William Weld
https://www.nndb.com/people/491/000063302/b-weld.jpg

Edward Brooke

Young Miles Davis


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## Brideshead

All this talk of the Ivy Shop, the Squire Shop and Village Gate has brought a tear to my eye! I frequented all these wonderful places from about 1969 to the early 70s. I particularly liked the half-sleeve summer shirts and the 'Royals'. I recall one had to have at least two pairs of Royals - one plain Derby or Bluchers style and one pair of wing-tips with the longwing.

Do I also recall that Quincy in Brewer Street offered a number of Trad items?

I visited John Simons in the early 90s, having lost touch a little over the years, and he dug out some vintage Royals from his stockroom that he was keeping for posterity - just so that I could touch them again


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## Russell Street

Dear Brideshead,

My Trad Army needs you!

The plan is to march on Savile Row and catch them while they are busy pleating & darting away down there.
I'm going to bring them some old Brooks & Press catalogues to look at.
All we'll do is 're-educate' them.
First London, then we'll have a pop at Paris & Rome.

Russell


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## Doctor Damage

Elliot Richardson, undarted and in trenchcoat.



...in chesterfield topcoat.


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## Doctor Damage

More Elliot Richardson, the Nixon years. First with Tricky Dick in happier days...then with Archie Cox...a couple close-ups...finally, a new president.











DocD


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## WisBadger77

Dr. Damage,

In your photos of George Bush, who's the guy with him in the first photo, and with him and Jim Baker in the second?

Alan Greenspan looks a lot younger in the photo with Jerry Ford. 

Later,
Wisbadger


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## patbrady2005

Sam Waterston/Jack McCoy from Law and Order rides a motorcycle on the show...is that Trad?

Patrick


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## Tomasso

> quote:_Originally posted by Wimsey_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Russell, don't fret. That Peck/Finch look is as "Yankee" as it "Southern." In fact, here's a guess I'll wager: while you see (relatively) quite a bit of that particular style of frame around NYC and in New England, you probably see little of it below the Mason Dixon. Can't be sure. Just a guess.
> 
> As for the seersucker and/or pincord: again, not necessarily "Southern." In fact, I believe I'm correct that Brooks brought seersucker to the U.S. So, it could be as much a "New York" thing as a "Southern" thing. Both Southerners and Yankees can agree that it's an "East Coast" thing.
> 
> But then you have to consider that one of the better trad shops is located in San Francisco. Now I'm really confused.
> 
> -Harris
> 
> 
> 
> I think Peck looks more Yankee than southern in that picture. Remember, this is not a photo of an actual person; this is a photo of Hollywood in 1962 dressing a man to look like a southerner in 1932 *but* trying to make him look good *and* enlightened *and* smart.
> 
> So they gave him contemporary (for the time) frames, which have "New England" written all over them, and which also say "intellectual", a white suit (which does suggest the south), and a vest plus pocketwatch, which suggests "old fashioned gentleman". * (I do have to wonder how many men in non-airconditioned southern alabama actually wore vests in the 30's, particularly when they were in crowded and presumably very hot courtrooms.)*
> 
> I do think that Atticus looked great in the movie, but I don't think he's a good example of "southern trad" (whatever that is).
> 
> (For people who have seen the movie, there is an earlier scene where the judge comes and asks Atticus to defend Tom Robinson. The judge is wearing a baggy white suit, *I think* poplin or linen, very wrinkled, very loose fitting - this is probably accurate for that time, place, and season. Unfortunately, to modern eyes it looks sort of ... slovenly.)
> 
> I'll disgree that seersucker is an east coast thing - when I was growing up (and before), it was very common in Kentucky, which is not at all on the east coast. I suspect it was also pretty common in TN, MS, and AL, although I'm not certain of that. Maybe it's an east coast and southeastern thing...
Click to expand...


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## Doctor Damage

> quote:_Originally posted by WisBadger77_
> 
> Dr. Damage,
> 
> In your photos of George Bush, who's the guy with him in the first photo, and with him and Jim Baker in the second?
> 
> Alan Greenspan looks a lot younger in the photo with Jerry Ford.
> 
> Later,
> Wisbadger


The first photo is from 1988 and the man is not identified; the second photo is from 1980 and the man with GHWB and Baker is "US Senator Paul Laxalt (R-Nev)".

DocD


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## Brideshead

> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> 
> Dear Brideshead,
> 
> My Trad Army needs you!
> 
> The plan is to march on Savile Row and catch them while they are busy pleating & darting away down there.
> I'm going to bring them some old Brooks & Press catalogues to look at.
> All we'll do is 're-educate' them.
> First London, then we'll have a pop at Paris & Rome.
> 
> Russell


Dear Russell
I am honoured, but not really sure that I qualify for Trad's Army. When growing up in the late 60s/early 70s the Ivy Shop had a great and lasting influence on me and my chums - we would save up our pennies and make the long journey from Essex to Richmond on Saturdays.

But, as my forum name hints, I am not really a Trad. My main point of reference is really that elegant style that runs throughout Granada TV's superb adaptation of the great book. Perhaps best described as an 80s take on the England of the 20s and 30s! That must surely disqualify me from your planned venture into Savile Row


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## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> More Elliot Richardson, the Nixon years. First with Tricky Dick in happier days...then with Archie Cox...a couple close-ups...finally, a new president.
> 
> DocD


I'm pleased to see Richardson is reeiving attention: trad not only in dress, but attitude, persaonlity, and/or persona. Quiet, steady composure personified. A relaxed ennui that's not been matched by many in public service. As one hears and sees the likes of Joe Biden and that old senator from West Virgnia named Byrd, one is inspired to ask: Where have you gone, Elliot Richardson? The loud, self-promoting blow-hards seem to be ruling the floor.

Alas, Richardson went back to Boston.

God save the Brahmins. And give us more of them.

Cheers,
Harris


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## WisBadger77

I guess Elliott Richardson and similar men went the same place that men such as Sargent Shriver, Bill Proxmire, and Scoop Jackson went. 

I think Jerry Ford was the last president to wear a 3 piece suit. Too bad.


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## Doctor Damage

George Plimpton, journalist and writer. Everyone's already seen the first photo, but the others are quite interesting.





Plimpton in his home office...


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## mpcsb

Doc,
I was looking at pics of Plimpton only yesterday, also Truman Capote. Tru was uber-southern-trad until he went bad after that "In Cold Blood" book.

Note below, no socks, loafers, cuffed khakis, taken about the time of _Breakfast at Tiffanys_. Cheers


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## Doctor Damage

More Plimpton, older.


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## Doctor Damage

Leonard Bernstein and Plimpton.



Plimpton in nice shirts...


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## Doctor Damage

Some photos in his office. Note trad typewriter...


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## Allthingstrad

​
Fred Barnes and Yours Truly--two great American Trads.

"Since it's a traditional, preppy look it's best if balanced by a relatively small four-in-hand knot." He sips his martini, recrossing his legs. "Next question?"


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## stanshall

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> Some photos in his office. Note trad typewriter...


Also note Harvard Classics on the bookshelves in the left foreground of this pic.


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## Coolidge24

And Elliot Richardson is even seated on the hood of a trad favorite: c.1982-1987 Ford LTD Crown Victoria in his sack sportcoat. Love it.


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## Doctor Damage

John O'Hara, writer. The first photo is with his wife and is dated "circa 1938".


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## 16128

Mein gott! My parents had that sofa in 1973.


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## Doctor Damage

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
> Mein gott! My parents had that sofa in 1973.


And Plimpton doesn't look happy to be sitting on it!

DocD


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## Doctor Damage

More O'Hara...some nice photos in his office...finally, a photo which demonstrates his strong Anglophilia (at least sartorially).


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## 16128

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
> Mein gott! My parents had that sofa in 1973.
> 
> 
> 
> And Plimpton doesn't look happy to be sitting on it!
> 
> DocD
Click to expand...

Nobody would be.


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## WisBadger77

Was that from an episode of Married with Children?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Two wonderful photos of Tucker Carlson with some other talking heads. Is it just me, or does he look ten times better than any of the other guests? And better than Larry King, but that's not too hard!



I am particularly fascinated by the peach shirt TC is wearing in this photo.



DocD


----------



## daltx

Doctor Damage,

Great thread and pics throughout it. The shirt that you like on Tucker is pictured more closely in a thread I started yesterday called "Recognize this bow tie?" It may be just a basic pink shirt. I think our pictures come from the same night at the Democratic convention this year. Hope this helps.


----------



## GreyFlannelMan

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> Plimpton in nice shirts...


That's not a very trad shirt -- more English, eh? I quite like it.


----------



## xcubbies

> quote:_Originally posted by [email protected]_
> 
> all these people look the same


How true. That was part of what the late 1960s was about. Pictures showing (not all) hippies of the 1960s show them (us?) to be relatively demure (when dressed) relative to the norms out on the street today.


----------



## crazyquik

> quote:_Originally posted by xcubbies_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by [email protected]_
> 
> all these people look the same
> 
> 
> 
> How true. That was part of what the late 1960s was about. Pictures showing (not all) hippies of the 1960s show them (us?) to be relatively demure (when dressed) relative to the norms out on the street today.
Click to expand...

There is a picture I can post of a Vietnam war protest from the local college. Many of the young men are wearing three piece suits.

---------------------

Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


----------



## xcubbies

Please post it, Crazy. I think many of the photographs from the early civil rights and Berkeley Free Speech movement will reveal Madras shirts and butch cuts. 

I put the blame for deterorating dress not on the hippie movement, but later, when, first, students started wearing numbered football jerseys on the street. The next step was shirts that read, "Property of (ie.) University of Michigan Athletic Department." From there some wiseguy thought it was funny to run with the idea and print 'Property of San Qunton Prison." 

The genie was out of the bottle, creativy and the artistic mind were given full license, and greed and stupity began to play their appropriate roles.


----------



## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> John O'Hara, writer. The first photo is with his wife and is dated "circa 1938".


DD, well done. O' Hara remains one of my heroes for lots of reasons, but damn did he have style! I've spoken highly of Paul Mellon, but I'm close to suggesting that O' Hara be nominated as All-Time Trad King (ATTK). A true-to-life Trad Dandy. A Trandy.

Cheers,
Harris


----------



## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> More O'Hara...some nice photos in his office...finally, a photo which demonstrates his strong Anglophilia (at least sartorially).


Leanings toward Anglophilia, to be sure. But was he ever seen in anything but a button down-sack coat combo? That third photo of him "puffing away" is a gem. Many thanks.

Hardly ever smiled. A pleasantly bored curmudgeonism. What a guy. Would that we dared to imitate his approach toward life.

Cheers,
Harris


----------



## xcubbies

I don't know, Harris, I don't share the perspective for O'Hara. He certain wrote well about an era and a segment of NE society, but from what I know about him he was frustrated with his background and drank himself to death. Wasn't he rejected socially by the people who were his subject? If you are talking about writers from the '50s I think Auchincloss or Cheever more from that segment.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Harris, I knew you'd like the O'Hara photos. I love the last one; very 'country gent'.

daltx: could you please post your photo of Tucker here, please? It's a good photo and I think would be appreciated as a superb addition to this thread. (I still think the shirt is peach, though, mainly because I doubt two separate photos would be incorrectly exposed...some of our senior trads here can weight in! )

DocD


----------



## Harris

How about Dick (or Richard) Thornburgh?


----------



## daltx

Doctor Damage,

Here's the photo of Tucker you asked for. After looking at the shirt again, I am not convinced that I was right in saying it was pink. I am not convinced I was wrong yet either but that could change. If anyone knows where to get a belt like he is wearing I'd appreciate that information. Enjoy.


----------



## Sweetness

Has anyone noticed that the youngest person shown on this thread is in their late-thirties (Tucker Carlson)?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Thanks for posting, daltx. You're right, that belt is nice...what do the letters stand for?

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Wonderfully detailed photos of Tucker; note the amazing old Weejuns. All he needs is a buttondown shirt...



DocD


----------



## daltx

Doctor Damage,

I believe the letters are his initials. There are also several good pictures out there of Tucker wearing tweed if anyone has the interest to find them.

Also, in looking for those pictures originally, I came across an article that mentioned Tucker was chosen by Esquire as one of the 10 best dressed men of 2004. When he was asked about what he wore his response, to me, seemed to somewhat accurately describe the Trad mindset. He said "I've been wearing the same thing since I was 13. If you always wear the same thing every 20 years or so it will be in style."


----------



## Doctor Damage

Lincoln Chafee, US Senator (R) for Rhode Island, who replaced his father John.


----------



## daltx

Although somewhat trad, Chafee leaves much to be desired as far as a senator is concerned. I can say that without feeling as though I am bringing politics into the mix, as Chafee is not highly thought of by either side of the aisle, so nobody here should be offended (unless of course Chafee himself is a reader, in which case I only partially apologize). From what I can tell, he does not have many principles on which he stands, unlike a true trad. If only he could be more like some of the late trad politicians.


----------



## Old Brompton

Sen. Chafee's hairstyle strikes me as shockingly un-Trad. Anti-Trad, even. I would suggest for starters he visit the same excellent barber who maintains Archibald Cox's hair (pictured at the beginning of this thread). If it takes he can graduate to a more O'Hara-esque style.


----------



## WisBadger77

His hair doesn't matter. He's establishment, can get away with it. The hybrid he drives with the dented door, well, that's another story...


----------



## Doctor Damage

More Chafee in sack suits.


----------



## daltx

I saw an article on the internet yesterday about George HW Bush's recent trip to Nantucket. They said he purchased 6 pairs of nantucket red's from Murray's. Good to know the trad inside him is not completely dead.


----------



## Harris

Chafee appears to represent a breed of Trad that many among us tend to like/prefer: Frumpy or I-really-don't-give-a-damn-it's-just-what-I-found-in-my-Dad's-closet Trad. The big, fat tie knots and quasi mullet: _nice!_

-Harris


----------



## WisBadger77

Interesting photos of Lincoln Chafee. The photos subtly illustrate the power Meet the Press has on politicians; there he's wearing a suit and tie that appear to be the exception to the I don't give a damn attitude.


----------



## Doctor Damage

> quote:_Originally posted by WisBadger77_
> 
> Interesting photos of Lincoln Chafee. The photos subtly illustrate the power Meet the Press has on politicians; there he's wearing a suit and tie that appear to be the exception to the I don't give a damn attitude.


That's an excellent observation. I'm intrigued by the long points on his shirt collars: wonder who makes them? Custom?

DocD


----------



## winn

DD - I want to thank you for your efforts at this documentation. I hope it gets saved somehow. The Atticus Finch (Gregory Peck)/ E. Richardson parallels are amazing!

Cheers,
Winn


----------



## mpcsb

Paul Mellon
No Paul Mellon - no National Gallery in DC


----------



## Doctor Damage

John Chafee, father of Lincoln Chafee (see above) and later Senator. Now deceased. The black & white photos are from 1967 on board the Independence for a conference.







Chafee is standing with Senators George J. Mitchell, Quentin N. Burdick, and Robert T. Stafford.


----------



## septa

I'd like to add fellow Philadelphian E. Digby Baltzell to the list. He was a trad's trad in the most un-trad profession I can imagine--sociology. As the man who popularized the acronym WASP, one need look no further than his C.V.: CHA, St. Paul's, Penn (not the tradiest Ivy, but still), and his Bibliography: P_hiladelphia Gentlemen : The Making of a National Upper Class_, _The Protestant Establishment : Aristocracy and Caste in America_, _Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia: Two Protestant Ethics and the Spirit of Authority and Leadership_, and _Sporting Gentlemen: Men's Tennis from the Golden Age of Amateurism to the Cult of the Superstar_, to know that he belongs in the trad hall of fame.

Look at him here










and here

Does it get much better than this?

Cheers,

Southeastern Pennsylvania Trad Authority


----------



## rip

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Knightly_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> We'll never really get that... _polish_ of the originals!
> 
> Fun trying, though...
> 
> Russell
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of trad, "polish" might actually be defined as a lack of polish.
> 
> Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
> But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
> For the apparel oft proclaims the man.
Click to expand...

One tradition's polish is another's patina.

Esse Quam Videre


----------



## Coolidge24

Adlai "We're Madl-ay For Adlai" Stevenson













Stevenson with trad-son-in-training




Allen Dulles, CIA Director




Christian A. Herter, Eisenhower's UN Ambasssador? and later Sec'y of State following Foster Dulles's death





Prescott Bush Sr., Connecticut Senator
(who usually had very odd combinations...trad ties with un-trad suits or shirt collars)




Henry Cabot Lodge Jr., Ambassador, 1960 GOP Veep Nominee. Often went more English but looks fairly trad here


----------



## Coolidge24

Nearly forgot

Rodman Rockefeller, Nelson's son

Love the glasses


----------



## Doctor Damage

Excellent, Coolidge24, post more! This is exactly what I was hoping members would do when I started this thread.

Also, check out for another great image archive (just wait until the thumbnail pages totally download before clicking on pictures).

DocD


----------



## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by septa_
> 
> I'd like to add fellow Philadelphian E. Digby Baltzell to the list. He was a trad's trad in the most un-trad profession I can imagine--sociology. As the man who popularized the acronym WASP, one need look no further than his C.V.: CHA, St. Paul's, Penn (not the tradiest Ivy, but still), and his Bibliography: P_hiladelphia Gentlemen : The Making of a National Upper Class_, _The Protestant Establishment : Aristocracy and Caste in America_, _Puritan Boston and Quaker Philadelphia: Two Protestant Ethics and the Spirit of Authority and Leadership_, and _Sporting Gentlemen: Men's Tennis from the Golden Age of Amateurism to the Cult of the Superstar_, to know that he belongs in the trad hall of fame.
> 
> Look at him here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here
> 
> Does it get much better than this?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Southeastern Pennsylvania Trad Authority


There's a rumor floating about (in certain academic circles with which I'm familiar) that professor Baltzell lectured in such a soft, quiet tone of voice that his students could barely hear.

Cheers,
Harris


----------



## Harris

Great photos. Much appreciated. Many thanks, chap.

Cheers,
Harris


----------



## Coolidge24

A few more trads from the 50s, then I must get to my law school reading

Sen. Aiken of Vermont




Sen. and Gov. Leverett Saltonstall of Mass.


----------



## septa

I'm glad you enjoyed the photos. The story about Prof. Baltzell fits with everything else I've heard. It's always refreshing to find other people familiar with him. Although, it's not surprising that you would be.
Cheers,

Southeastern Pennsylvania Trad Authority


----------



## Harris

Lev "Salty" Saltonstall. Too much a populist for my taste, but nonetheless an impressive gent. 
Cheers,
Harris


----------



## Old Brompton

*Coolidge24*, many thanks for the spectacular pics. Just amazing. These vintage gents seem almost 'exotic' to my eyes, given the prevailing styles today. Honestly, someone should compile a book on American Trad.


----------



## mpcsb

> quote:_Originally posted by Old Brompton_
> 
> *Coolidge24*, many thanks for the spectacular pics. Just amazing. These vintage gents seem almost 'exotic' to my eyes, given the prevailing styles today. Honestly, someone should compile a book on American Trad.


It would be a great coffee table book, could be sold through Brooks/Press/Andover/Eljos etc. Given some of the posters here, we could simply go through our family photos and make up a book on trad family.

Thanks for all the pics.
Cheers


----------



## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> John O'Hara, writer. The first photo is with his wife and is dated "circa 1938".


I felt it necessary to indulge in another dose of O' Hara. Damned SOB! Should've lived longer. Cheers, Harris


----------



## rojo

> quote:_Originally posted by Louis M_
> 
> Has anyone noticed that the youngest person shown on this thread is in their late-thirties (Tucker Carlson)?


Yes. What's your point?


----------



## Harris

Another shot of O' Hara, looking typically pissed. God bless him.


----------



## crazyquik

> quote:_Originally posted by xcubbies_
> 
> Please post it, Crazy. I think many of the photographs from the early civil rights and Berkeley Free Speech movement will reveal Madras shirts and butch cuts.


Davidson College, NC.

Not sure of the date. I think late 60s.

It's possible I could see some of these men at church tomorrow morning. I'll be wearing a 3 piece suit, so if I see a gleam in a 60 year old's eye, well...maybe.

---------------------

Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Member *rnm0000* informs me that Tucker's Weejuns in the photos posted above are quite old and beloved.

Apparently a newswriter from the Philadelphia Inquirer interviewed Tucker after he made the statement that he would eat his shoes if Hilary Clinton's book sold over a million copies. This writer commented that one pair of shoes Tucker would definitely not be eating would be his classic penny loafers that he has had since the senior Bush administration (that would be 1989-1993). So that makes them about 12-15 years old. They have been resoled so many times that they slip off his feet.

DocD


----------



## jmorgan32

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> Member *rnm0000* informs me that Tucker's Weejuns in the photos posted above are quite old and beloved.
> 
> Apparently a newswriter from the Philadelphia Inquirer interviewed Tucker after he made the statement that he would eat his shoes if Hilary Clinton's book sold over a million copies. This writer commented that one pair of shoes Tucker would definitely not be eating would be his classic penny loafers that he has had since the senior Bush administration (that would be 1989-1993). So that makes them about 12-15 years old. They have been resoled so many times that they slip off his feet.
> 
> DocD


i knew it after i saved the pic, and then zoomed in on the shoes. yep. the original weejun. i had a pair in the 80's. just got sick of them after "changing" to alden........should have hung onto them. bass is really missing the boat on this one in my opinion. they would seem to be an easy re-creation.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Photos of a young William Buckley Jr., the first photo of him with his first book. He looks happy!


----------



## Doctor Damage

Several photos of Buckley on his grounds, on sailboat, lounging with wife. The last is his home office (a very grand desk!).


----------



## Harris

In that last photo--is that a sleeping dog in the lower right corner? 

I can claim that my office is messier that the one featured in that last photo. Two administrative assistants and it still looks like a hurricane swept through. 

Cheers,
Harris


----------



## Doctor Damage

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> In that last photo--is that a sleeping dog in the lower right corner?
> 
> I can claim that my office is messier that the one featured in that last photo. Two administrative assistants and it still looks like a hurricane swept through.
> 
> Cheers,
> Harris


Looks like a dog! I'm wondering what that cord hanging from the ceiling is (on the left); doesn't look quite safe, from an electrical standpoint...

DocD


----------



## Old Brompton

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> I'm wondering what that cord hanging from the ceiling is (on the left); doesn't look quite safe, from an electrical standpoint...


Looks alarmingly like a _noose_. I suppose it's there to intimidate his enemies, or something. [:0]


----------



## Harris

Nice placement of the clock. It appears to be sitting on top of an uninstalled air conditioning unit. Hilarious.

Cheers.


----------



## Doctor Damage

At least the bookshelves appear to be secured to the wall, otherwise I'd be worried about them crushing him...


----------



## familyman

I'd bet that office is of the old variety that had one, maybe two outlets, if he's lucky. I think that cord goes up to a light bulb fixture with an outlet in it and down to the desk to power an adding machine or something like that. You can still buy the good ceramic light bulb fixtures like that, I highly recommend them for attics and garages, you never know where you'll need to plug something in.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford. 

John Adams


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's more photos of a younger Buckley.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Photo of Buckley and wife after being rescued by US Coast Guard (stranded sailboat). He looks suitably embarrassed, she suitably amused.



Buckley as editor.



Buckley in 1975 with his brother (at left), Ron Reagan and Barry Goldwater.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Buckley as TV host, first with Gore Vidal, second with Spiro Agnew, and the last two with Joan Baez (beautiful then, beautiful now...).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Photos of an older Buckley. Note nice surcingle belt in second photo.





Buckley with George McGovern.



Buckley with Barry Goldwater. Note button-down shirt with tux on Buckley(!).



Buckley with Jeffrey Hart (nice seersucker!).


----------



## 3button Max

notice that Buckley is a little darted in some 3 sack-again I think common then.


----------



## Doctor Damage

More photos of Buckley, the first by Mickey Adair. Could be titled "How To Wear An Oxford Button-Down".





Photographed by Hank O'Neil.



Painted by David Peikon.





Very old Buckley.


----------



## Intrepid

Sorry that I'm such a neandrathal on the internet that I can't transmit a photo. However, there are some here that may have a vivid mental picture of the image that I would like to post.

One year ago tomorrow, we lost Bobby Short. I got back from my dog walk that day, and found out about it on AAAC. It really rocked me more than it should. I didn't know him. He was 80, and I knew he was seriously ill.

Still and all, he was hands down the most elegant, charasmatic person that I have ever run accross.

Always superbly dressed on stage, and when spotted around the streets of NYC walking Chili, none finer!

Carpe Diem


----------



## Doctor Damage

Absolutely amazing series of photos of Buckley, an outstanding study (can't remember who the photographer was though).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Bud Collins: tennis sportswriter extraordinaire.

Entered the International Tennis Hall of Fame in 1994 for contributions to the sport. From their site: _"Seldom one to take himself or sports too seriously, he brightens reports with nicknames as colorful as his rainbow neckties and trousers, occasionally with flights of fancy. However, he can be absolutely authentic, a meticulous curator of the game's annals, passionate keeper of the flame"_.

Incredible sense of style, probably fits into the 'dandy trad' category.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Another great photo of Bud Collins in patch madras!


----------



## jmorgan32

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> More photos of Buckley, the first by Mickey Adair. Could be titled "How To Wear An Oxford Button-Down".
> 
> Photographed by Hank O'Neil.
> 
> Painted by David Peikon.
> 
> Very old Buckley.


Now this shirt was definitely not sent to the cleaners for a heavy starch job! Jeez! (TOP photo with hand under chin.) I would love to be a little more rumpled, but that shirt cuff is just too far for me to go. I am not "trad enough" I guess for that.


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Perhaps Buckley is in his own category -- American Fogey (definately not young nor British).

A very fascinating character, and trad/fogey to the core. It always surpised me that a man that almost pioneered TV would always look so dishevelled. The slouching, the rumpled tie, the slicked back hair. I have read he plays the harpsichord, in addtion to the piano. Truly an "I dont care" kind of dresser.

DD, Any chance you could repost some of the pictures that fell off? Particularly the office photo that everyone has commented on. Thanks.


----------



## Tom Buchanan

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by Tom Buchanan_
> 
> DD, Any chance you could repost some of the pictures that fell off? Particularly the office photo that everyone has commented on. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the office photo:
Click to expand...

Thank you, DD. I appreciate it. It looks like all the pictures above are showing up now as well.


----------



## Doctor Damage

> quote:_Originally posted by Tom Buchanan_
> 
> It looks like all the pictures above are showing up now as well.


Sometimes all you need to do is refresh a few times, especially if you are on dial-up; I guess MS Explorer get 'tired' of downloading so many images and stops, thus a few uses of the F5 key wakes it up to it's job...

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Of course, Buckley's son Christopher is not very 'trad' in dress, although those eyeglasses would do...

From an interview on NOW:

_CHRISTOPHER BUCKLEY: Well, my last interview with this lady from the Tobacco Institute--

BRANCACCIO: The real lady?

CHRISTOPHER BUCKLEY: The real lady back in 1993, I guess it and she was-- we were in her office and she was puffing away. A rather beautiful smoker, too, very elegant. And, I said, "You know-- there's a question I'm really kinda dying to ask you, but I feel a little bit awkward."

And, she said-- "What's a nice girl like me doing in a place like this?" And, I said, "Yes. Yes. That's exactly it." She said, and I'll never forget, - she paused and puffs-- she said, "I'm just paying the mortgage." And, I thought, "Wow," you know, and so I used that line practically word for word in the book and it becomes the *Yuppie Nuremberg Defense*. "I was only paying the mortgage." And, Nick, he said, "Most of the evil that is done in the modern world is done because of a mortgage. It would really be-- the world would be a better place if everyone just rented."_


----------



## Doctor Damage

Everyone knows John Bolton, the US's newest ambassador to the UN.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Two nice full-length photos of Bolton, note Aldens.





It's tempting to criticize GWB's facial expression in this photo, but I have to admit I'd probably look much the same if I had to sit through some interminable session... That being said, it is a useful photo for comparing Bolton's natural-shoulder suit with GWB's heavily padded suit.


----------



## Coolidge24

William Webster, George H.W. Bush's CIA director









William Colby, Nixon-Ford CIA director




EDIT: This is William Webster again



Jimmy Stewart...who changed his clothes with prevailing fashion but could sport the trad look at times, especially in most of his 1950s movies



Loftus Becker Sr. (father of UConn Law's senior professor of Constitutional Law Loftus "Lofty" Becker Jr.) an Eisenhower State Department legal advisor in perhaps one of the traddest offices ever


----------



## djl

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_


My monitor is terrible - is that a 3/2 buttonhole I see? Neat if it is. Thanks for the pics.

djl


----------



## Doctor Damage

> quote:_Originally posted by djl_
> 
> My monitor is terrible - is that a 3/2 buttonhole I see? Neat if it is. Thanks for the pics.


djp, yes that's definitely a 3-rolled-to-2 suit. He's also wearing one in the photo with Kofi Annan.

Coolidge, nice photos!


----------



## Doctor Damage

More photos of Bolton in suits.







This photo was taken when Bolton was simply a "Republican attorney". Is it punched or not?


----------



## ROI

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
> 
> William Webster, George H.W. Bush's CIA director


Judge Webster is a first rate example of an interesting subset of Trad, Midwestern Trad.

"The whole thing is performance and prowess and feats of association. Why don't critics talk about those things - what a feat it was to turn that that way, and what a feat it was to remember that, to be reminded of that by this? Scoring. You've got to score." Robert Frost


----------



## wheredidyougetthathat

More Adlai Ewing Stevenson II. Note especially #3 - now *that's* trad!










Somebody: "I tell you, he's so well dressed that when he walks down the street people turn around to look at him."
Beau Brummell: "Then he is not well dressed."


----------



## joeyzaza

Otis was pretty tradley.

So was Eddie Albert in Green Acres.

Archie Bunker used to wear Brooks Brothers oxford non-button downs. You can tell by the way the sleeve attaches to the cuff (however not in this photo).


----------



## Beresford

*Robert Frost*










(Frost at Williams College)


----------



## joeyzaza




----------



## Doctor Damage

More photos of John Bolton, this time in a more relaxed mode.









Here he is wearing a strange sweater...


----------



## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> More photos of John Bolton, this time in a more relaxed mode.
> 
> Here he is wearing a strange sweater...


That sweater kicks a s s.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Came across these random photos on the internet...some guy called Charles Knapp, Yale '89 (reunion photos from 2004). Note 3/2 sack.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Charles Hill, former foreign service diplomat and now Yale lecturer. This is the only good photo I could find of him.


----------



## Harris

Is it just me or does it appear (to everyone) that a lot of old trads acheive the desired look by doing nothing--by simply holding onto the Ivy League duds they wore in the 50s and 60s, never bothering to replace anything. They've done nothing more than refuse to throw anything away, wearing the same suits and ties and shoes over and over and over again. Sometimes I wonder if George Will just stopped shopping around 1965 and never bothered with shopping again. -Harris


----------



## DownSouth

Dubya looked like a beady-eyed idiot even back then! What a dope.


----------



## Yalie

I know for a fact that Mr. Hill gets all of his suits from J. Press.



> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> Charles Hill, former foreign service diplomat and now Yale lecturer. This is the only good photo I could find of him.


----------



## Doctor Damage

More photos of Tucker.



...with his new MSNBC co-hosts.



...wearing some weird overcoat.



...with some guy called Ben Bolger, a 'blogger'.


----------



## Doctor Damage

More Tucker, this time at a book signing with Paul Begala.



With Paul Begala again, plus Dan Festa, at Morton's.


----------



## Coolidge24

Trad goes scientific: Vannevar Bush



(note white bucks)







Another shot of Adlai Stevenson, looks like he got in a wrestling match in that suit



Stevenson's running mate, Sen. Estes Kefauver. Not as trad as Stevenson, still together possibly the tradliest one two punch ever to head the national ticket for either party







Kefauver with Lyndon Johnson in a suprisingly trad moment for LBJ..note patch and patch 3 button sack and narrow tie



Early-mid 60s New York Republican Senator Kenneth Keating





Senator Keating with Rocky after losing his bid for a second term



Later convicted of bribery in the ABSCAM scandal in 1980, (adding to the stereotype not to trust people who wear argyle socks with suits) New Jersey Senator Harrison Williams, early in his career. Minus the socks, everything else looks trad from here. He looks rather collegiate, in fact


----------



## the squire

Chris and Russell i was fortunate due to age as having shopped at both Austins and The Squire Shop.Just leaving for work but i will respond later with some memories OK?


----------



## Russell Street

> quote:_Originally posted by the squire_
> 
> Chris and Russell i was fortunate due to age as having shopped at both Austins and The Squire Shop.Just leaving for work but i will respond later with some memories OK?


For God's sake YES!
Half dead, but if anything can bring me 'round it's a little hardcore London Ivy *suss* around here!

All the Best -

D.


----------



## the squire

Chris and Russell my age means I shopped at both Austins and The Squire Shop I am at work but will try later to put some memories in OK? i AM NEW TO THIS BE GENTLE.


----------



## Russell Street

> quote:_Originally posted by the squire_
> 
> Chris and Russell my age means I shopped at both Austins and The Squire Shop I am at work but will try later to put some memories in OK? i AM NEW TO THIS BE GENTLE.


Never fear - The first drink is always on the house!
The worst we'll do is try to work out if we know you! 

D.


----------



## Harris

Keating appears to be heavily influenced by fogey. But then, I'm becoming more persuaed that trad and fogey are synonymous, with Ivy and Preppy being left out in the cold.


----------



## Russell Street

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Keating appears to be heavily influenced by fogey. But then, I'm becoming more persuaed that trad and fogey are synonymous, with Ivy and Preppy being left out in the cold.


We could probably break this down, just for fun - 
*Preppy* = The Prep school years (Duh! as youngsters might say! )
*Ivy* = Those college years.
*Mainstream Trad* = Young executive (in whatever field).
*Fogey* = Glorious full-tilt Trad-to-the-Max at whatever age that kicks in.

??????????????? As always tell me when I'm wrong - That's how you teach an old dog new tricks!

D.


----------



## Harris

> quote:_Originally posted by Russell Street_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Keating appears to be heavily influenced by fogey. But then, I'm becoming more persuaed that trad and fogey are synonymous, with Ivy and Preppy being left out in the cold.
> 
> 
> 
> We could probably break this down, just for fun -
> *Preppy* = The Prep school years (Duh! as youngsters might say! )
> *Ivy* = Those college years.
> *Mainstream Trad* = Young executive (in whatever field).
> *Fogey* = Glorious full-tilt Trad-to-the-Max at whatever age that kicks in.
> 
> ??????????????? As always tell me when I'm wrong - That's how you teach an old dog new tricks!
> 
> D.
Click to expand...

Probably right. Some skip preppy and Ivy and go straight to fogey.


----------



## Russell Street

Dear Harris -

In the same way that my grandmother used to talk about people being "One of nature's gentlemen", I think, with great respect, that you must have been born one of nature's fogeys, Sir. 

I doubt that I could tempt you to do anything, but the missing part of our exploration of 'Trad' remains *American Fogey*. Your thoughts would complete what has been done here so far.

Not sure where we go from here... 'Back to basics' was my best idea...
It's your forum, though *H*., where will you lead your troops on to next?

I'm a sick old dog, but I'm glad I got to know you -

David James


----------



## Doctor Damage

Now for that most stylish and confident of trads: Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Early last year we had a thread dedicated to this man, but that thread has disappeared so here's a more photos.

A very young Moynihan, almost baby-faced!



With Nixon and now in government at the highest levels.



Lots of seersucker.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Two shots of Moynihan on television (always looking sly), followed by a portrait of him in 'action'.







Some general photos, now during the Ford administration.


----------



## Harris

*The American Fogey*

Yes, yes. An actual entity. More should be said.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Thankfully, Moynihan could never be said to be 'fogey'. In fact, he seemed to dress much more prep/trad in his later years (but those photos will come soon).

More photos from his early days in Washington.





Note the trad in bow tie at right.



In his office, looking very thoughtful and hard-working.


----------



## n/a

Once again DD, superb pics and thank you for sharing. I particularly like the glasses on his desk!


----------



## Doctor Damage

More Moynihan.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's Moynihan with Rummy.



Leaving the UN building when he was ambassador there. Note tail end of 71/72 Caddy.



Here he is hamming it up (seems to have been a bit of a joker at times!).





Nice portrait.



This photo shows nicely how tall Moynihan was, almost as tall as Galbraith!


----------



## Doctor Damage

Moynihan in NYC leaving to go vote for his first senate run.





On the campaign trail, looking very tired.


----------



## WisBadger77

DPM was a great public servant, the last of a breed perhaps rarer than a Rockefeller Republican. There's just something about his clothes that is kind of showy, like he's trying too hard. He doesn't pull it off with the aplomb of GHWB.


----------



## Harris

Moynihan's sartorial style was pure American Fogey (that'd be English Fogey gone TNSIL), but he was too cheerful to be deemed Fogey in spirit.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Moynihan with his daughter.



Interesting shearling coat...









These photos should provide some "spot the politican" fun.


----------



## Doctor Damage

With Buckley for a TV show.





Misc photos...meeting the new President and leaving the White House.







Inside Congress.



On the streets of NYC for a parade.



Helping support a one-time Presidential hopefull.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Moynihan near the end of his life, lending his support to Hillary Clinton. Dress? Preppy before it was called preppy.


----------



## Brownshoe

Great pictures.

Am I alone in thinking DPM had the face of a preternaturally wise child?


----------



## familyman

His style aged wonderfully. Thank you so much for the pictures DD.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford. 

John Adams


----------



## Harris

A throw-down for 'ya: see if you can stir up some photos of Shelby Foote.


----------



## Laxplayer

How about the late Senator Paul Simon? I was lucky enough to meet him while in college. He was very friendly, and complimented me on my own bow tie.


----------



## jmorgan32

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> With Buckley for a TV show.
> 
> Misc photos...meeting the new President and leaving the White House.
> 
> Inside Congress.
> 
> On the streets of NYC for a parade.
> 
> Helping support a one-time Presidential hopefull.


Those things on his feet in the photo where he is sitting to Bush's right are unreal. (in my opinion.)

Joe


----------



## Harris

I think Nicholas Lemann probably qualifies. I've seen/heard him speak. He wore a conservative (maybe sack?) suit and an OCBD-foulard combo. And he continues to stick with the tortoiseshell p-3's (maybe a size 44 eye?). Further, he's maintained that hairstyle one saw a lot during the 80s in midtown Manhattan--the kind that Taylor Nichols' characters wore in Stillman's first two films. UHB Trad.

https://www.columbia.edu/cu/alumni/Magazine/Spring2005/IMAGES/j-school083.jpg


----------



## Doctor Damage

Senator Paul Simon of Illinois.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Simon on the campaign trail...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Portait photos of an aging Simon.









Love this ocbd!


----------



## familyman

Senator Simon knew who he was didn't he? Something for anyone to admire and shoot for regardless of style.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford. 

John Adams


----------



## Doctor Damage

Screenshot from the Baracuta website intro page. Now I recognize that Steve McQueen is not 'trad', but I posted this photo because it's amazing. Look at that BD collar roll! Look at that G9!


----------



## EastVillageTrad

*Dr. Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.*

Let's not forget Prof. Arthur Schlesinger, whom I see around midtown from time to time still:


----------



## EastVillageTrad

*Woody*

Also Woody Allen has been wearing undarted three-button sacks for years and in many of his recent films and "especially the early funny ones".


----------



## longwing

Has anyone noted peak lapel seersucker? Interesting.


----------



## Topsider

LongWing said:


> Has anyone noted peak lapel seersucker? Interesting.


J. Press?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's a couple of nice photos of GHWB wearing seersucker. He's entering St. John's Episcopal Church in DC with his son on May 6 (for a family wedding).


----------



## Coolidge24

Doctor Damage said:


> Here's a couple of nice photos of GHWB wearing seersucker. He's entering St. John's Episcopal Church in DC with his son on May 6 (for a family wedding).


GHWB is still one foot in the trad orthodoxy with the suit, but it has those darts (at least they are subtle, Horace/Andover darts) and he's got that spread collar. How are the mighty fallen....

I was watching "The Philadelphia Story" again last night...it's one of my favorites and was noticing that most of the single breasted suits worn in the movie are pretty trad. Obviously, it was from 1940-ish so there were plenty of double-breasted worn as well. Jimmy Stewart's ensemble as he enters Sidney Kidd's office at the beginning of the move "Now we're not gonna do it, Liz! Doggone it..." is particularly exemplary.


----------



## Coolidge24

Is it just me, but is HW's hair lighter in color than his son's. He almost *gasp* looks YOUNGER than GWB.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Coolidge24 said:


> Is it just me, but is HW's hair lighter in color than his son's. He almost *gasp* looks YOUNGER than GWB.


Double terms in the White House seem to have that effect. Certainly GHWB is looking more spry in these photos than he did in interviews circa the tsunami of last year.


----------



## Doctor Damage

For doubters like me, here's proof that GHWB wore sacks in the presidency (1990).



Some older photos from the 1980 campaign.





This one is from 1984, location unknown.


----------



## Coolidge24

Great looks by the Elder Bush.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here he is again, this time unashamedly preppy. Blue pants in 1991 (oxford or poplin?).



Here in faded reds in 2002. Looks like he has embroidered marlins on his belt...


----------



## Harris

I'm sure that's a TEXAS A&M ball cap he's wearing. It may seem ironic as matched w/ the reds and the marlin belt...but no. 

Anybody heard of Texas Trad? An interesting breed. East Coasters who have gone south to work in firms in Houston and Dallas. Sorta like Poppy went South to make some $ in oil and get into politics.

Love it.

Cheers,
Harris


----------



## EastVillageTrad

Pappy does look spry that is for sure. I do wonder why he has strayed from the trad-wear though...


----------



## Doctor Damage

More Bush, with Tricky Dick in 1970 and with son (and unidentified persons on unknown date).





With family, the first 1970 and the other unknown date.


----------



## Doctor Damage

More GHWB...the last, I promise!


----------



## crazyquik

Richard Guy Wilson. Professor of Architectural History at UVA. A pretty trad job at a pretty trad place. 

You can see him on most episodes of America's Castles on the History Channel, and many of the shows about Thomas Jefferson.


----------



## Clotheswatcher

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tom Oliphant, the former liberal politcal commentator for the Boston Globe. I see him when he fills in for Mark Shields on Shields and Brooks every Friday night on the Newshour on PBS (my favorite news source).

Perhaps one might disagree with his politics, but I think it would be hard to disagree with his clothing choices, especially his bow ties, hair cut, and glasses; which fall right into the Trad category.





































I also LOVE his bizarre facial expressions, which can provide a lot of entertainment.


----------



## fenway

Clotheswatcher said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Tom Oliphant, the former liberal politcal commentator for the Boston Globe. I see him when he fills in for Mark Shields on Shields and Brooks every Friday night on the Newshour on PBS (my favorite news source).
> 
> Perhaps one might disagree with his politics, but I think it would be hard to disagree with his clothing choices, especially his bow ties, hair cut, and glasses; which fall right into the Trad category.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also LOVE his bizarre facial expressions, which can provide a lot of entertainment.


God, I can't stand him!


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Clotheswatcher said:


>


I know nothing about this Gentleman's politics or views. But I have to say, referring back to a previous thread on bow ties, in my very limited opinion, this person seems to lack the "panache" that is required to wear a bow tie and look good. This person looks a little too perfect, which to my admittedly limited opinion, comes off as a bit effete. If that is his thing, then fine.

I would prefer a bit more rumpled and rugged appearance. To each their own.


----------



## Hoyt

*Gordon Gee*


----------



## crazyquik

This photo is really striking to me. It's almost like GHWB posing as a rock star for Rolling Stone. Note the button down, which was rarely seen on him at this age. Also look at the notches in the lapel. Is that a photoshopped picture? Something just doesn't seem right....


----------



## Coolidge24

crazyquik said:


> This photo is really striking to me. It's almost like GHWB posing as a rock star for Rolling Stone. Note the button down, which was rarely seen on him at this age. Also look at the notches in the lapel. Is that a photoshopped picture? Something just doesn't seem right....


The latter picture could not portray more strongly the difference between not trad (Reagan) and trad (Bush) Reagan has the monster shoulder pads that make the suit look like a linebacking outfit. His hair is saccharinely perfect--it looks glued on, his tie knot larger and flawless, his collar a wide spread. Bush has sloping natural shoulders, a sack suit, a forward point, a casually askew tie. Reagan's hands are clenched. Bush's are relaxed. Reagan looks every bit like he's posing for the camera. He really cares what people think. He's standing ramrod straight, his face frozen in a smile. Bush doesn't give a damn. He's standing comfortably. He's giving the camera an affable, tolerant grin, perfectly assured that he has nothing to prove.


----------



## AlanC

crazyquik said:


> This photo is really striking to me. It's almost like GHWB posing as a rock star for Rolling Stone. Note the button down, which was rarely seen on him at this age. Also look at the notches in the lapel. Is that a photoshopped picture? Something just doesn't seem right....


The lapels have something of an Oxxford look.


----------



## Vanderbilt

Coolidge24 said:


> The latter picture could not portray more strongly the difference between not trad (Reagan) and trad (Bush) Reagan has the monster shoulder pads that make the suit look like a linebacking outfit. His hair is saccharinely perfect--it looks glued on, his tie knot larger and flawless, his collar a wide spread. Bush has sloping natural shoulders, a sack suit, a forward point, a casually askew tie. Reagan's hands are clenched. Bush's are relaxed. Reagan looks every bit like he's posing for the camera. He really cares what people think. He's standing ramrod straight, his face frozen in a smile. Bush doesn't give a damn. He's standing comfortably. He's giving the camera an affable, tolerant grin, perfectly assured that he has nothing to prove.


Love the analysis, Cooly!


----------



## kitonbrioni

Old Bush 41 is looking pretty darn good right now, in more ways than one.


----------



## Old Brompton

kitonbrioni said:


> Old Bush 41 is looking pretty darn good right now, in more ways than one.


You're absolutely right. As I've mentioned before in these pages, there was a long, multi-page article in M Magazine in 1991 or 1992 analyzing the Trad/Preppy clothing of the Bush administration. If I remember correctly, there were detailed discussions of tweed jackets, polo shirts, duck boots, Trad haircuts, etc. Amazing. I wish I could find a copy...


----------



## EastVillageTrad

Eh, a little w/ the frames. When Gee was at Ohio State he was known for his bowties and double breasted suits......


----------



## wannaB1L

kitonbrioni said:


> Old Bush 41 is looking pretty darn good right now, in more ways than one.


43 is my man


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's a potentially iconic image for this forum: "Citrus grower and restauranteur, Peter Pulitzer on the patio of his home in Palm Beach, Florida", photographed in April 1968. That's a rather slim fitting pink OCBD, and he certainly has pedigree behind him, literally and literarily.


----------



## A.Squire

1968?-timeless. 
Doc, if you ever come across an ivory linen trouser/ white shirt combo with navy blazer would you mind posting it up?

*I need to get on the treadmill.

Allen


----------



## rsmeyer

Peter Pulitzer being Lilly's first hubby.


----------



## Trilby

Astonishing - that photograph is almost 40 years old. Think of all the fashions that have come and gone in that time, while style like this endures.


----------



## eagle2250

Considering the indicated age of the photograph and the striking lack of difference in the style of the period in which the photo was taken, compared with the styles of today, provides an impressive reflection on one of the very best aspects of TRAD. Great picture!


----------



## Doctor Damage

Photos of Willam Sloane Coffin, chaplain at Yale (please ignore the man's politics, this thread is about clothing.) The first photo is dated 1965, in a nice OCBD.



The second photo is from 1968 and was taken in Boston. Note sack suit.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Photos of possible trad candidate Ralph J. Roberts, founder of COMCAST.

With his son.



Some photos from news conferences.


----------



## A.Squire

DD, 

Well there you go--university stripe and a suit. You did that on purpose--FerrisBueller put you up to it?

Allen


----------



## mcarthur

*american trad men*



Allen said:


> DD,
> 
> Well there you go--university stripe and a suit. You did that on purpose--FerrisBueller put you up to it?
> 
> Allen


Allen-
The gentlemen next to Ralph is his son Brian who is CEO of comcast.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Dunbar W. Bostwick, polo player, horse breeder, and landowner. The internet is full of interesting anecdotes about this man's life, but no photos (except these three).
The following photos, in order:
1. Unknown date.
2. On his property, circa 1960.
3. At polo in 1939 (he's on the left, with his brother at right).


----------



## A.Squire

^ Tell me you're doing that on purpose?

Allen


----------



## Doctor Damage

Allen, I have no idea what you or Ferris are talking about inre the shirts -- I must have missed a thread or something. I just got lucky with some old trad gents in my (endless) searches.


----------



## A.Squire

DD,
I made a remark in a previous thread that I thought the univeristy stripe was the least dressy of shirts and I never see anyone wearing them with a suit.....only to find two such photos within days of my posting. I enjoy the photos---if nothing else they serve as a reminder that I could stand to drop a few pounds.

Allen


----------



## mcarthur

*american trad men*



Allen said:


> DD,
> I made a remark in a previous thread that I thought the univeristy stripe was the least dressy of shirts and I never see anyone wearing them with a suit.....only to find two such photos within days of my posting. I enjoy the photos---if nothing else they serve as a reminder that I could stand to drop a few pounds.
> 
> Allen


Allen-
I agree with your comment in regard to that the university stripe is the least dressy of shirts. About need to lose weight only your tailor will tell you (wink)


----------



## Doctor Damage

Photos of E. Kirkland Cooper, onetime Commodore of the...well, you can see for yourself. Today he's an investment manager or something.


----------



## FerrisBueller

Allen said:


> DD,
> I made a remark in a previous thread that I thought the univeristy stripe was the least dressy of shirts and I never see anyone wearing them with a suit.....only to find two such photos within days of my posting. I enjoy the photos---if nothing else they serve as a reminder that I could stand to drop a few pounds.
> 
> Allen


Since I have neither posted on this thread, nor put Doctor Damage up to his photos, my only input is, "look and learn". A university striped shirt with a suit is a very acceptable trad look.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's some men on some old Japanese magazine cover. They look good to me, in fact I think they could pass for any of us...


----------



## mpcsb

Doctor Damage said:


> Here's some men on some old Japanese magazine cover. They look good to me, in fact I think they could pass for any of us...


Well, 
maybe,
if some of them had grey hair, and speaking sole for myself a few more pounds - LOL


----------



## zignatius

Plimptrad.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Bolton wearing university stripe with suit.


----------



## rsmeyer

Bolton's moustache is most un-trad.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Description: _"September 1965, Walter S. Gubelmann at the helm of his yawl, 'Windigo'. His sweater bears international sailing monograms. The Gubelmann family yacht 'Constellation' won the 1964 America's Cup on behalf of the New York Yacht Club."_


----------



## Pgolden

*Kennedy Trad*


----------



## Doctor Damage

Donald Coxeter (1907-2003), well-known professor of geometry. He's not American, but I think we can extend him the honourary trad stamp-of-approval based on the photos below.


----------



## Patrick06790

And here is Mr. Archibald A. Smith III, headmaster of Trinity-Pawling School, courtesy of an education freebie mag that appeared on my desk and my lousy scanner.

That's a red uni stripe shirt.


----------



## knickerbacker

*Re- JFK*

Funny detail I noticed in the pictures Patrick put up- JFK has his bottom button done (a faux pas in my and most people's books). No doubt to hide his back brace that supposedly caused him to need a 2b number in the first place.


----------



## jpeirpont

Ralph Ellison


Anthony A. Williams graduated magna cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from Yale College, earned a juris doctorate from Harvard Law and a Master of Public Policy from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Some great finds, guys!


----------



## Pgolden

knickerbacker said:


> Funny detail I noticed in the pictures Patrick put up- JFK has his bottom button done (a faux pas in my and most people's books). No doubt to hide his back brace that supposedly caused him to need a 2b number in the first place.


Great find. I've looked at the picture I don't know how many times, and I never noticed the buttoned second button.


----------



## Pgolden

*Kennedy Trad Pt 2*

Note the shirt hanging out.









And here, note the darts on JFK's jacket.


----------



## Pgolden

*Hemingway trad 1950s*

He shopped at A & F. I believe the jacket, however, was bespoke from Hong Kong, and he forever referred to it as his "Hong Kong jacket."


----------



## Doctor Damage

Photos of Cornelius Shields Sr., winning yachtsman in 1958. These photos are dated 1972.





Here he is with his son in 1962 when they co-skippered in an America's Cup race (man with hat in first image is unidentified).



With his daughter in 1962. Note 3/2 roll.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Howard Dean pictured in TIME Magazine from early 2004. I sort of find it refreshing that a man as wealthy as Dean would habitually wear shoes as modest as Sebago "Classic"s.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Floyd Spence, active in South Carolina politics and a member of the House of Representatives (photographed below in 1951 and 1952).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Henry Fonda and Clark Gable, from the website, with thanks to The Fedora Lounge and The Site Which Will Not Be Named for the link.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Now that it's snowing again, let's go sailing!

Olin Stephens, ship designer, photographed in 1967 (left). Emil Mosbacher and Jock Sturrock, 1967 (right).



From left to right: Robert W. McCullough, Robert Bavier, and Olin Stephens, photographed in 1974.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Robert Bavier, 1974.



George Oday & Chandler Hovey, 1965.



Olin Stephens & Emil Mosbacher, 1967.


----------



## Doctor Damage

More sailors associated with the America's Cup.

Eugene Stetson, 1964.



Bill Luders, 1964.



Bill Cox and Bill Luders (rear), 1964.



This fellow is unidentified, however he is helming the "Aries" in 1954, so that may help. The old sweater worn with the shorts is amazing.


----------



## Doctor Damage

More great photos of GHWB, dated (in order): 1960s and in China 1974.





Bush clan, unknown date.


----------



## GMC

*CG did same*



knickerbacker said:


> Funny detail I noticed in the pictures Patrick put up- JFK has his bottom button done (a faux pas in my and most people's books). No doubt to hide his back brace that supposedly caused him to need a 2b number in the first place.


I noticed that, too. Not that he was at all Trad, but Cary Grant sometimes did the same thing.


----------



## Doctor Damage

GMC said:


> I noticed that, too. Not that he was at all Trad, but Cary Grant sometimes did the same thing.


...and the Duke of Windsor. Lots of those rules are made-believe, although they are useful to prevent men new to fine clothing from making mistakes out of the gate. Men experienced with clothing and confident in their taste ignore the rules and make their own. Obviously, JFK, CG, and the Duke were such men.


----------



## charphar

*Younger Buckley - Role Model...*

Seeing those pics of William F. Buckley further back up the thread reminds me of how much of a role model he was for me in my "formative" years - sartorially and philosophically!

I thought - and still do! - that that OCBD and the red/navy striped tie look is the best! Clean, simple, sophisticated. Your mileage may vary...

Hmmm...come to think of it, I think I'll go downstairs and break out my copies of "God and Man at Yale," "Up from Liberalism," and some of the Blackford Oakes novels...:icon_smile:


----------



## Kingsfield

Land's End founder Gary Comer


----------



## Doctor Damage

Trude Taylor, trustee of Harvey Mudd College(?).


----------



## Nordicnomad

I don't know if it is OK to copy the photo to my own computer and post it here, so I will just post a link: 

Norman Rockwell and Jerry Lewis. Try to decide which one most exemplifies trad. Hmmm.


----------



## Puffdaddy

Fogey said:


>


Is Peck's bottom button in fact buttoned in this picture?


----------



## jasonpraxis

Professor Kevin Starr, University of Southern California. I ran across the black and white version of this photograph in the January 11th issue of the New York Review of Books and thought of this thread.

More information is available from the .


----------



## Doctor Damage

*Slim Aarons*, unofficial photographer to the jet set in the post-war years. He was apparently known to all of them and invited to all the right parties. He was famous for saying -- after having served as a combat photog in WWII and 'earning' a Purple Heart -- that the only beach he wanted to land on after the war was one which was littered with girls in bikinis suntanning.

Three collections of his photos have been published: _A Wonderful Time_ (1974), _Once Upon A Time_ (2003), and _A Place In The Sun_ (?). I have the last one, and it's filled with outstanding photos of the rich jet set at play in the world's best places: lots of blazers, lots of Gucci's, lots of sailboats, lots of bikinis. Incredibly, the photos are both aspirational (as the subjects are often preening for the camera) and funny (as people often are when they try too hard). This was the post-war "international jet set", not quite the celebrity-culture boneheads of today. Yes, they were just as vacuous as today's celebs, but at least they had style.

These photos taken in 1969, 1955, and 1975. Great use of monogrammed blue OCBD and canvas belt with snake clasp in first photo.

Aarons in 1949 in Sicily, visiting "Lucky" Luciano (second left). This photo well illustrates where Slim got his name.

Here he is on the right, hamming it up while taking a portrait of W. Somerset Maugham in 1963.

Aarons in 2003, not long before his death, flipping through his first book, at his home in New Hampshire.


----------



## Chris H

Nice pics Dr. D, Slim Aarons was a man who was definately on the cool side of the ivy look.


----------



## Iambic Pentameter

VS said:


> Mein gott! My parents had that sofa in 1973.


I must say, and excuse me if someone else has already mentioned this, but I would swear thats the set of "Married With Children" !


----------



## Doctor Damage

Photo taken by Slim Aarons, at the Newport casino circa 1960.

The quality of the photo is low, unfortunately, but it's worth noting that all of the men are wearing sack blazers and button-down shirts. Note the short length of the pants; also, they all have cuffs. Shoes are brown penny loafers, except for the fellow in the canvas boating shoes.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Unidentified man playing croquet, Bermuda 1970 (photo by Slim Aarons).


----------



## Beresford

Anthony A. Williams graduated magna cum laude with a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from Yale College, earned a juris doctorate from Harvard Law and a Master of Public Policy from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University.
[/QUOTE]

I've always liked Williams' bow ties!


----------



## Doctor Damage

_More classic Americana from Slim Aarons..._

Palm Beach party, 1955.

Claiborne Pell (on the left), Newport, 1955.

Two polo images, the first from 1955 and the second from 1982.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Jerry Trimingham, Bermuda s.1970 (photo by Slim Aarons).



Red bermuda shorts!

DD


----------



## mpcsb

Doctor Damage said:


> Red bermuda shorts!
> 
> DD


With yellow socks - cool.


----------



## EastVillageTrad

*FDR at Warm Springs, 1930*

Tradtastic!

We have nothing to fear but darts and pleats. . .


----------



## medwards

*Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr. -- RIP*



Squadron A said:


> Let's not forget Prof. Arthur Schlesinger, whom I see around midtown from time to time still:


Arthur Schlesinger passed away last night. He will be missed.


----------



## rsmeyer

medwards said:


> Arthur Schlesinger passed away last night. He will be missed.


Amen.


----------



## septa

*More Schlesinger*

May he rest in peace.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Barry Kieselstein-Cord, designer, photographed for the September 1988 issue of _Architectural Digest_. I'd like to scan in the whole article about his uber-trad country farm, but that would be pushing copyrights too far. He is seen here with his wife and business partner at the time, CeCe.

He is wearing a button-down shirt (which is clearer in the original photo). Note the heavily pressed chinos and much battered cordo LHS loafers.

DocD


----------



## Untilted

Squadron A said:


> Tradtastic!
> 
> We have nothing to fear but darts and pleats. . .


He buttoned his bottom button?!


----------



## Doctor Damage

Untilted said:


> He buttoned his bottom button?!


Note how high FDR's bottom button is vis-a-vis the top of the side pockets. Compare to one of your jackets at home.


----------



## EastVillageTrad

Untilted said:


> He buttoned his bottom button?!


He sure did.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Christian Herter, statesman who was Governor of Mass. and Secretary of State under Eisenhower. He was obviously a devotee of the bow tie.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Christian Herter again, he obviously suffered from mobility problems once in the Eisenhower admin. These photos are all from 1959.









Here he is in the back of his limo, a '59 Caddy "Sixty Special".





DocD


----------



## Untilted

very very interesting, the bottom button of the jacket is above the side pockets on every picture!


----------



## GMC

*Notice the tie switch on Herter*

He's a bow-tie devotee except in the one photo where he actually is in the room with the president. I've noticed this a lot in old photos. It's almost like men somehow feel the bow is not formal enough for the most serious occasions. Or maybe that they'll call attention to themselves in some inappropriate way.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Robert McNamara, Secretary of Defense and Pres. of the World Bank at various times.


----------



## Doctor Damage

McNamara.


----------



## Doctor Damage

McNamara (in colour).





Recent photo...



DD


----------



## GMC

*Check out "Fog of War"*

The McNamara-focused movie. If memory serves he's wearing nothing but Brooks OCBD, and he likes to use the pocket.

My dad, a fully retired (i.e., over 20 years) military man still thinks of the man as a war criminal.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Does anyone recognize this young man in the university stripe OCBD?



DD


----------



## Tom Bell-Drier

not 100% sure , but it looks like Andrew Mcarthy


----------



## Ron_A

Doctor Damage said:


> Does anyone recognize this young man in the university stripe OCBD?
> 
> DD


Whoever he is, he looks to be in need of a visit to the campus barber.


----------



## GMC

*Respectfully disagree*

I think he needs avail himself of the services of the campus cops, who can lock him away so we don't have to see that hair.


----------



## HL Poling and Sons

Haha---could have been any one of several of my Groton classmates, ca. 1982.


----------



## Doctor Damage

C'mon guys, look closely at his face. I _know_ some of you know who this is, and his features have changed little since that photo was taken. Don't make me post this on the Fashion Forum!

(Ironically, in a few weeks my hair will be that long and I will look just like him.)

DD


----------



## TradTeacher

Doctor Damage said:


> C'mon guys, look closely at his face. I _know_ some of you know who this is, and his features have changed little since that photo was taken. Don't make me post this on the Fashion Forum!
> 
> (Ironically, in a few weeks my hair will be that long and I will look just like him.)
> 
> DD


Kind of looks like John Cusack...

TT:teacha:


----------



## GMC

*Hell ...*

... John Kerry?

Whoever he is, he's just killing me.


----------



## TradTeacher

Thom Browne?

This is starting to bug me...

TT:teacha:


----------



## JamesR

Actor Edward Norton.


----------



## GMC

*I think he's right*



JamesR said:


> Actor Edward Norton.


Good eye.

Norton went to college with a colleague of mine. Seems like he was a nice guy. Despite lapses in follical judgment.


----------



## Doctor Damage

It's not Ed Norton. This man is very well-known. He is usually photographed these days with a smirk, so imagine the man above with a smirk.

DD


----------



## longwing

Doctor Damage said:


> .... so imagine the man above with a smirk.


Dick Cheney?


----------



## BeauJest

Ru Paul?

OK, I give up.


----------



## Cowtown

Matt Lauer?


----------



## enecks

Tom Ford?


----------



## Tradfan

*Bill Clinton?*

Bill Clinton?


----------



## Thornhill

It's Tom Ford, formerly of Gucci, and now with his own very high-end store in NYC, if I recall correctly.


----------



## Doctor Damage

enecks said:


> Tom Ford?


Yessir, you are correct.

It's a beautiful OCBD he's wearing in the old photo.
I wish you could buy big collars like that these days.

DD


----------



## crazyquik

Reagan staff. Looks like two sacks in the photo. William Clark and Casper Weinberger


Taken when he was Vice President. They just don't dress VPs like that anymore....


James Baker. Probably not a sack but a nice emblematic tie and a 3 button suit with a roll to the lapel.


----------



## Tiff_Bradley

Caspar Weinberger, GWHB and James Baker all displaying the classic '2 on the cuff' sleeve button arrangement.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Tremendous photos, crazyq.
Good internet searching!

DD


----------



## Beresford

crazyquik said:


> Taken when he was Vice President. They just don't dress VPs like that anymore....


Striped grosgrain watchband alert!


----------



## crazyquik

Doctor Damage said:


> Tremendous photos, crazyq.
> Good internet searching!
> 
> DD


Here's the entire series of portraits, though most aren't very trad. However, they are a great collection of photos that I'd never seen before.


----------



## crazyquik

Barbara Pierce Bush dancing with her father at her wedding to George H.W. Bush.


----------



## HL Poling and Sons

Beresford said:


> Striped grosgrain watchband alert!


^
Bought at the old Georgetown University Shop. Sold by yours truly


----------



## Doctor Damage

crazyquik said:


> Here's the entire series of portraits, though most aren't very trad. However, they are a great collection of photos that I'd never seen before.


I think Weinberger and Schultz have nice natural shoulders on their suits, even if they are darted.

DocD


----------



## jml90

Anybody see the GHWB and Bill Clinton commercial? Bush looks to be wearing a 3/2 sack an OCBD and o No.1 Stripe


----------



## Doctor Damage

Proof that the Good Doctor himself liked BB products. Here he is wearing a university stripe OCBD in the 1980s (photo below). Although I can't find the reference right now, he bought Benecio Del Torro a BB seersucker suit upon the completion of the movie version of his most famous book, and in his later years was often seen wearing a blue OCBD and blazer at public appearances.



Not trad, of course, but he was American through and through.

DocD


----------



## egadfly

*More HST*

I've always liked this shot:






​As you say, not Trad _per se_, but he had style.

EGF


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Doctor Damage said:


> Proof that the Good Doctor himself liked BB products. Here he is wearing a university stripe OCBD in the 1980s (photo below). Although I can't find the reference right now, he bought Benecio Del Torro a BB seersucker suit upon the completion of the movie version of his most famous book, and in his later years was often seen wearing a blue OCBD and blazer at public appearances.
> 
> Not trad, of course, but he was American through and through.
> 
> DocD


Excellent DocD. Dr. HST was rather trad in his younger days. Check out some of the pictures on the below link. Good OCBDs, khakis, madras shirts, etc.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Thanks, that's a good link Tom.

I was flipping through my copy of Thompson's _Kingdom Of Fear_ and I noticed in one photo he is wearing a sack sport coat in a small windowpane check. I think the photo dates from the 1980s, during one of his many court appearances for "possession". It was a delightful surprise to see a sack being worn by him!

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

GHWB photos, various dates.

Here he is wearing reds and a sports jacket.



Not sure what he's wearing in this photo, but it looks interesting and makes him look younger than his son!



I posted a larger version of this photo long ago, but now we can confirm the pattern on his belt.



This looks to be an old photo from the 1980s, or maybe early 1990s. He seemed to wear white socks a lot with casual wear in those days. Note narrow cuffs.



Here he is with Bill co-hosting a golf tourney or something. Note Ferragamo's on Bill, who always looks better dressed like this but always wears a suit.





DocD


----------



## Duck

Doctor Damage said:


> GHWB photos, various dates.
> 
> Here he is wearing reds and a sports jacket.
> 
> Not sure what he's wearing in this photo, but it looks interesting and makes him look younger than his son!
> 
> I posted a larger version of this photo long ago, but now we can confirm the pattern on his belt.


He loves the marlin belt with his reds.


----------



## Tom Buchanan

/\ Some interesting outfits. He seems to be wearing a tweed hunting jacket in the 3rd picture, perhaps on the way to church in Kennebunkport (which is almost next to his estate). The rifle padding is on the left side, since GHWB is a lefty. 

Most surpising to me is his wearing a Panerai watch in the golf shot. He doesnt strike me as someone who would purchase an expensive Italian military style watch. It could make sense since they are easy to read, rugged, and waterproof.

The picture with Clinton look like they were taken at the President's Cup in Virginia. It looks like the tournament supplied the outfits.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I cannot remember who this man is or where I found the photo, but he's looking quite good. It's a great classic colour combination, which is why I like TNSIL/preppy/trad clothing so much.



DocD


----------



## M. Charles

*George Will*

https://imageshack.us

Good one of George Will. Does anyone have an idea who made his coat or his briefcase?


----------



## Danny

This must have been taken just before an episode of THIS WEEK with George Stephanopoulos. The guy sitting down was on with George during the round table 2 weeks ago. George Will is on every week and is always the best dressed person in the room. Though I have to say, George Stephanopoulos' spread collars look pretty good on him.

Danny



M. Charles said:


> https://imageshack.us
> 
> Good one of George Will. Does anyone have an idea who made his coat or his briefcase?


----------



## Reddington

I've always like this photo of JD. A true classic.


----------



## bandofoutsiders

Frank O' Hara. Poet. Seersucker. Attitude.


----------



## bandofoutsiders

Robert Lowell


----------



## bandofoutsiders

Jean Luc Godard. Not American I know, but cool as hell. Just ask Anna Karina







Max Ernst. Surrealist.


----------



## Reddington

bandofoutsiders said:


> Jean Luc Godard. Max Ernst. Surrealist. Robert Lowell


Bandofoutsiders -

Your pictures didn't post (at least on my screen). Can you repost? I'd like to see the photos.

Cheers.


----------



## bandofoutsiders

They show up on mine. i'd repost but i don't know how to post any other way than i did. Use the urls in the little red x icons. most of the photos are from getty images.


----------



## Duck

Work on mine. Try firefox instead of IE


----------



## Nordicnomad

Glad to see this thread open again.
I have another name that ought to be on the thread: Roger Kimball - publisher and editor of the conservative arts and letters magazine The New Criterion. I'll leave it up to someone with better computer skills (and not reading from work) to find and post a photo. There are some good ones out there.


----------



## tripreed

Reddington said:


> Bandofoutsiders -
> 
> Your pictures didn't post (at least on my screen). Can you repost? I'd like to see the photos.
> 
> Cheers.


Did work for me either. Maybe you could host them on Imageshack and then post those links.


----------



## rsmeyer

bandofoutsiders said:


> Robert Lowell


First pic is with fellow writer Mary McCarthy, who wrote the classic short story "The Man In The Brooks Brothers Shirt".


----------



## Reddington

Nordicnomad said:


> Glad to see this thread open again.
> I have another name that ought to be on the thread: Roger Kimball - publisher and editor of the conservative arts and letters magazine The New Criterion. I'll leave it up to someone with better computer skills (and not reading from work) to find and post a photo. There are some good ones out there.


Here's a couple shots of Mr. Kimball:


----------



## MichaelB

M. Charles said:


> https://imageshack.us
> 
> Good one of George Will. Does anyone have an idea who made his coat or his briefcase?


Looks like a Hartmann briefcase to me.


----------



## Timaximus

I <3 Godard. Has anyone mentioned Burroughs yet?


----------



## Patrick06790

Here's a couple of Burroughs. In the second, by Richard Avedon, he looks a bit like George H.W. Bush.

I sense a Lizard People Moment coming on.


----------



## JDJ

Does anyone know what kind of glasses James Dean is wearing in that pic?


----------



## JordanW

Mayor Joseph P. Riley, Jr. of Charleston, South Carolina

I absolutely love this Ben Silver tie.


----------



## Patrick06790

Southwestern author Paul Horgan, from the jacket of A Distant Trumpet, 1951.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Patrick06790 said:


> Southwestern author Paul Horgan, from the jacket of A Distant Trumpet, 1951.
> 
> https://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/plsullivan06790/more stuff 11-13-07/DSCF6979.jpg


That's a great photo, P. He looks comfy in his jacket!

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Some guy called Richard Snibbe (I don't know more than that).


----------



## Patrick06790

Doctor Damage said:


> Some guy called Richard Snibbe (I don't know more than that).


Inventor of the inflatable birdbath.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## bandofoutsiders

Malcolm X. Trad. 







Why don't they make tab collars like the one in the last photo anymore? very short collar points.


----------



## tsweetland

Check out this pic of Buckley (RIP) that was on drudge report:


----------



## Ron_A

tsweetland said:


> Check out this pic of Buckley (RIP) that was on drudge report:


This strikes me as kind of a weird picture to use in connection with his obit. He looks nervous -- almost frightened.


----------



## JordanW




----------



## HL Poling and Sons

^
I'm glad someone posted that picture of WFB. I've been meaning to scan my copy of it for ages.

Study it well, gentlemen, because, THAT is what this forum is all about.

HL


----------



## Falstaff

HL Poling and Sons said:


> ^
> I'm glad someone posted that picture of WFB. I've been meaning to scan my copy of it for ages.
> 
> Study it well, gentlemen, because, THAT is what this forum is all about.
> 
> HL


Both of the above are oustanding representations of Trad fashion. Unfortunately, he will carry the torch, of fashion (and of course other matters) no more. We will miss his sartorial example.


----------



## PeterW

JordanW said:


> Mayor Joseph P. Riley, Jr. of Charleston, South Carolina
> 
> I absolutely love this Ben Silver tie.


That's our Joe! Trad EVERY day!

But if I'm not mistaken that tie is Talbot from the late Max's Men Store.

Ben Silver is not as Trad as some folks seem to think. Very fancy, expensive, and la-de-dah.

Max's was the real deal.

PeterW
Charleston, SC


----------



## Untilted

JordanW said:


>


stunningly effortlessly cool.


----------



## JordanW

PeterW said:


> Ben Silver is not as Trad as some folks seem to think. Very fancy, expensive, and la-de-dah.
> 
> Max's was the real deal.
> 
> PeterW
> Charleston, SC


Who are these "folks"? I, as well as most members on this board, would disagree.

When I was last at Kiawah I made a trip into town and Ben Silver still offered sacks as well as AA frames, beautiful shetlands and Alden footwear.


----------



## AldenPyle

Im not sure who looks cooler X or Bill.


----------



## PeterW

JordanW said:


> Who are these "folks"? I, as well as most members on this board, would disagree.
> 
> When I was last at Kiawah I made a trip into town and Ben Silver still offered sacks as well as AA frames, beautiful shetlands and Alden footwear.


I've lurked on this forum a LONG time and am very appreciative of its polite and pleasant conversations. Don't mean to kick a hornet's nest on my first post. No offense intended.

Did you ever visit Max's? The comparison between the two stores was stark. Once you get used to a shop which sells only 3/2s and where a salesman with 30 years of service knows not only your name and size but also your wardrobe, it is hard to make the switch to Ben Silver's. Not to mention $185 for an OBCD.

Among many locals (in a town where trad is still the most common mode of dress), Ben Silver is seen primarily as a shop for visitors and mail-order. Don't get me wrong, it is a beautiful store with many fine articles of clothing. I recently bought a lovely bucket hat there. (I have one Ben Silver horror story, though: my wife gave me some ties from there for X-Mas ten years ago. I took them on a trip to work trip to Egypt where I was working with an English judge. In the middle of one meeting, he put on his reading glasses and grabbed my tie, tut-tutted, and dismissively asked me about my experience at the Battle of Waterloo. Apparently he knew that regiment well!)

But I don't want to hijack this thread. The Mayor shopped at Max's, and his clothes show it. The Mayor would no sooner pay $185 for an OCBD than fly to the moon.


----------



## Naval Gent

Amen, Peter. Max's was cool. I shopped there when I was on sea duty as a Junior Officer. Joe was Mayor even then, way back in those days. Joe's still there, but unfortunately, Max's ain't.

Ben Silver is more Anglo-American than any traditional local men's store I ever visited. BS is great, but priced above my level to buy. I don't have anything from there except some ties, most purchased back when they were $50-$60. I still usually splurge on a tie during my annual or bi-annual visits to the Holy City, though. BS is sort of indicative of Charleston as a whole - pricing itself out of reach of the local populace.

I'm careful about Regimental/organizational ties for the very reason you cite.

Scott


----------



## hbs midwest

Naval Gent said:


> Ben Silver is more Anglo-American than any traditional local men's store I ever visited. BS is great, but priced above my level to buy. *I don't have anything from there except some ties, most purchased back when they were $50-$60. *
> 
> *I'm careful about Regimental/organizational ties for the very reason you cite.*
> Scott


...And most of my BS neckwear was in the $40-$50 range; you can figure the average age.

I probably should show more care re: regimentals, but when one has an addiction...

Enjoy Thursday.

hbs


----------



## Tucker

PeterW said:


> That's our Joe! Trad EVERY day!
> 
> But if I'm not mistaken that tie is Talbot from the late Max's Men Store.
> 
> Ben Silver is not as Trad as some folks seem to think. Very fancy, expensive, and la-de-dah.
> 
> Max's was the real deal.
> 
> PeterW
> Charleston, SC


Could be Talbot, I suppose. Could be BS. I have the BS version (R15 - Royal Army Medical Corps).


----------



## Doctor Damage

I would be greatly surprised if Ben Silver made the mistake of selling regimental ties (with the stripes going the "right" way) in the U.S.

DocD


----------



## Alexander & Overcharge




----------



## Alexander & Overcharge

Scott Fitzgerald. Tradly alcoholic as well.


----------



## zignatius

Gentlemen, 
The Man in The Straw Boater & Seersucker.


----------



## Alexander & Overcharge

Can a rooster be Trad?

.


----------



## jml90

Doctor Damage said:


> I would be greatly surprised if Ben Silver made the mistake of selling regimental ties (with the stripes going the "right" way) in the U.S.
> 
> DocD


I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure they do.


----------



## Patrick06790

My father, ca. 1960, probably on Wall Street. Hard to tell with the scanned version but it's a buttondown. He says nobody wore a blue shirt at his company - it would have been on a par with showing up drunk with a showgirl.


----------



## Reddington

Patrick06790 said:


> My father, ca. 1960, probably on Wall Street. Hard to tell with the scanned version but it's a buttondown. He says nobody wore a blue shirt at his company - it would have been on a par with showing up drunk with a showgirl.


Patrick -

That's a great photo. I'm sure you heard this before, but you're the spitting image of you father.

Cheers.


----------



## wnh

zignatius said:


> Gentlemen,
> The Man in The Straw Boater & Seersucker.


I can't get enough of this photo. Casual and elegant. I need me a seersucker suit.


----------



## Patrick06790

Reddington said:


> Patrick -
> 
> That's a great photo. I'm sure you heard this before, but you're the spitting image of you father.
> 
> Cheers.


Now that I look more closely at the background, that's probably in Scarsdale. Date is about right.

We have another one somewhere of Pop and Tip O'Neill on a street corner in Washington, late 70s.


----------



## Topsider

Patrick06790 said:


> He says nobody wore a blue shirt at his company - it would have been on a par with showing up drunk with a showgirl.


That's how IBM was until the early 1990's. Nowadays, you're an oddity if you come to work with a tie on, pretty much like everywhere else. "Business casual" is a contradiction in terms, IMO.


----------



## zignatius

Patrick06790 said:


> My father, ca. 1960, probably on Wall Street. Hard to tell with the scanned version but it's a buttondown. He says nobody wore a blue shirt at his company - it would have been on a par with showing up drunk with a showgirl.


That's a great shot, Patrick. It's nice to see an AP-like shot, opposed to a sitting.

Forgive my hijacky self-indulgence, but maybe these work in the spirit of historical context. Maybe...

"Mr. Zignatius" around 1951. Here's a man who's never accessed the Internet. At least that I know of. (Backstory: his father was the clothes horse. My dad not so much.) 









My mom and her cousin and aunt. Circa 1930. I like the neckwear-at-play. 









White-tie picnic? Great-grandfather Thorn Smith with homies. Turn of last century. 









Patrick: Now you see me!! There I am. The honeychild in the center of it all. In the arms of my Great Aunt Dorothy. Lake Tahoe. Around 1964.


----------



## Ron_A

A book that I currently am reading on the early years of the CIA has seriously piqued my interest in these men and their lifestyle. These guys appear to have been some _serious _trads. Here are some photos of Alan Dulles.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Ho ho ho...


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> Ho ho ho...


Anyone know what you call the sweater on the student over young Mr. Clinton's left shoulder.


----------



## Alexander & Overcharge

A wool knit, ribbed-neck turtleneck.

.


----------



## AldenPyle

Alexander & Overcharge said:


> A wool knit, ribbed-neck turtleneck.
> 
> .


Thanks. I'm not sure if that is trad, but it seems pretty cool. Though I doubt I will have occasiion one for many months, do you know any place that might sell those?


----------



## Duck

Didn't J. Crew sell something like that in the early 90's? I had a great wool green roll neck from them. You always lose the good stuff, don't you?


----------



## Doctor Damage

I suppose everyone noticed that Bill was wearing a natural-shouldered, 3-to-2 rolled sport coat?

DocD


----------



## Doctor Damage

Dr Howard Jones with his wife Georgeanna in 1981 and 1983.


----------



## tripreed

Duck said:


> Didn't J. Crew sell something like that in the early 90's? I had a great wool green roll neck from them. You always lose the good stuff, don't you?


I actually have a green one from J. Crew that I picked up from a thrift store. It's the itchiest sweater I own; if anybody wants it, I'll send it to 'em.


----------



## nringo

Patrick06790 said:


> My father, ca. 1960, probably on Wall Street. Hard to tell with the scanned version but it's a buttondown. He says nobody wore a blue shirt at his company - it would have been on a par with showing up drunk with a showgirl.


Awsome picture; what did your father do on Wall St.?


----------



## Naval Gent

Ron_A said:


> A book that I currently am reading on the early years of the CIA has seriously piqued my interest in these men and their lifestyle. These guys appear to have been some _serious _trads. Here are some photos of Alan Dulles.


Great picture. Note the straight point collar. No buttons. I think this forum gets way too torqued up over collar buttons.

And what's up with that pipe? I wonder if he has the stem in his other hand? Surely he's not smoking it like that.

Scott


----------



## wnh

Does he have a tie bar on in this picture, or is it just the way the tie is lying next to his shirt? To the left (our left) of the fingertips on his left hand, the tie goes in suddenly as though it's being held down, but I can't see anything that would be the culprit.


----------



## Untilted

no visible tie bar.


I agree that we are putting too much emphasis on OCBDs. OCBDs are great for casual use. But a club or a tennis collar pinned look much sharper with a suit.


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> I suppose everyone noticed that Bill was wearing a natural-shouldered, 3-to-2 rolled sport coat?
> 
> DocD


Fits well at shoulders, should maybe have it let out a bit though.


----------



## Doctor Damage

AldenPyle said:


> by Doctor Damage said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose everyone noticed that Bill was wearing a natural-shouldered, 3-to-2 rolled sport coat?
> 
> DocD
> 
> 
> 
> Fits well at shoulders, should maybe have it let out a bit though.
Click to expand...

You're joking, right? It fits him like the proverbial potato sack.

DocD


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> You're joking, right? It fits him like the proverbial potato sack.
> 
> DocD


Its an old pic, but it looks like its straining at the button.


----------



## Patrick06790

Here's my dad and Tip O'Neill in Washington ca. 1976. (O'Neill was still majority leader.)

Hard to tell if Pop's got a 3-2 on. He never paid much attention to that, but has always detested pleated pants and any collar other than buttondown.

Dad was a lobbyist and as a young man helped on O'Neill's early Congressional campaigns. That didn't hurt any when it came to getting the Speaker's attention years later.


----------



## Harris

Patrick06790 said:


> Here's my dad and Tip O'Neill in Washington ca. 1976. (O'Neill was still majority leader.)
> 
> Hard to tell if Pop's got a 3-2 on. He never paid much attention to that, but has always detested pleated pants and any collar other than buttondown.
> 
> Dad was a lobbyist and as a young man helped on O'Neill's early Congressional campaigns. That didn't hurt any when it came to getting the Speaker's attention years later.


Great photo, Patrick.


----------



## 3button Max

*Pat's dad*

that is a great pic -thanks for sharing that-(looks like an old version of you)


----------



## Alexander & Overcharge

In that photo, your dad looks a bit like Norman Mailer.

.


----------



## AlanC

Great pic, Patrick. Where's the one of you and Pelosi?


----------



## Patrick06790

AlanC said:


> Great pic, Patrick. Where's the one of you and Pelosi?


The days when someone important could walk around in public without a bevy of bodyguards are gone, alas. I could probably arrange it with my (first-term) congressman, who wears nasty ESPN analyst suits and duckbills.


----------



## Larsd4

AlanC said:


> Great pic, Patrick. Where's the one of you and Pelosi?


Perhaps that one isn't suitable for a family website.


----------



## AldenPyle

Worth reading the story too: https://www.thecolumnists.com/stanley/stanley58.html


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Doctor Damage

Great photo, Aldenpyle! It shows a bunch of interesting styles, but note in particular the man in specs and bow tie on the far right.

DocD


----------



## wessex

It's interesting that everyone's inseams are on the shorter side. These days it seems that everyone (including myself as the result of letting tailors have thier way) wants to error on the side of lengthiness.

Any satorial historians have a theory on why/when this paradigm shift occured? Perhaps a result of Steve Urkel?


----------



## Doctor Damage

wessex said:


> It's interesting that everyone's inseams are on the shorter side. These days it seems that everyone (including myself as the result of letting tailors have thier way) wants to error on the side of lengthiness.
> 
> Any satorial historians have a theory on why/when this paradigm shift occured? Perhaps a result of Steve Urkel?


It probably has more to do with intermittent fashions, and personal choice, than anything else.

DocD


----------



## playdohh22




----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> Great photo, Aldenpyle! It shows a bunch of interesting styles, but note in particular the man in specs and bow tie on the far right.
> 
> DocD


Indeed. His suit strikes me as if he could have gotten it at Press this afternoon. Ironically, I found it looking for pictures of Byron White, who is obscured.


----------



## AldenPyle

wessex said:


> It's interesting that everyone's inseams are on the shorter side. These days it seems that everyone (including myself as the result of letting tailors have thier way) wants to error on the side of lengthiness.
> 
> Any satorial historians have a theory on why/when this paradigm shift occured? Perhaps a result of Steve Urkel?


Here is what the GQ's style guide Glenn O'Brien says

"As for trouser break, I know this sounds prejudiced, but whenever I see a man in an expensive suit with no break to his trousers, that is, with the trouser hems riding above the shoes and showing sock, I wonder which small midwestern community he's a pillar of. Sorry. Actually, trouser break is not mandatory, and for the traditional American natural-shoulder, center-vent full-cut suit (a.k.a. Ivy League or Madison Avenue style), no break is customary. Back in the swinging '70s, trousers, especially flared or boot-cut styles, were often hemmed on an angle, shorter in front. Break came in with the European and Anglo influence. Full break means trousers are hemmed to reach the top of the heel of a standard dress shoe, naturally breaking over the front of the shoe. I've never heard of a half break, but Kalenderian informed me that customers often request a slight break. So the answer is, it's all a matter of taste. Hopefully, you've got it. If you have doubts, find a fitter or a tailor you trust."


----------



## tripreed

playdohh22 said:


>


Does this count since since he was born in England?


----------



## videocrew

tripreed said:


> Does this count since since he was born in England?


Presumably he converted.


----------



## AldenPyle

videocrew said:


> Presumably he converted.


 If not, they would probably call him Sir Cary.


----------



## paper clip

That's quite a dent in the top of his hat!


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Duck

AldenPyle said:


>


Third from the left, helluva a male camel toe


----------



## AldenPyle

In honor of Doctor D., come back soon.


----------



## randomdude

AldenPyle said:


>


Um, who are these guys?


----------



## AldenPyle

I assume the band of the guy on the far left. Stage left.


----------



## Ron_A

AldenPyle said:


> I assume the band of the guy on the far left. Stage left.


I give up. John Kay and Steppenwolf?

In any event, except for the one gentleman (guy with the cameltoe) in the tennis sweater, they look like a bunch of beatniks. Personally, I'd much rather see old pics of CIA and Kennedy administration guys.


----------



## swb120

If those clowns are trad, I'm out!


----------



## AldenPyle

Its Dennis Wilson and Band touring England. Wearing flat fronts, OCBD's, tennis sweaters, navy blazers, suede shoes and Converse tennis shoes. 

I don't take requests. If you would rather look at CIA guys, post them yourself.


----------



## swb120

Ron_A said:


> Personally, I'd much rather see old pics of CIA and Kennedy administration guys.


I agree - let's see old photos of GHWB, Allen Dulles, Pat Moynihan, et al.


----------



## AldenPyle

swb120 said:


> If those clowns are trad, I'm out!


I hate to break it to you, but if I have to give up you or Dennis Wilson its not going to be a hard choice.


----------



## swb120

AldenPyle said:


> I hate to break it to you, but if I have to give up you or Dennis Wilson its not going to be a hard choice.


You know you'll miss me when I'm gone...


----------



## AldenPyle

swb120 said:


> You know you'll miss me when I'm gone...


No doubt, but not as much as I would miss this:


----------



## swb120




----------



## AldenPyle

deleted


----------



## Ron_A

AldenPyle said:


> I don't take requests. If you would rather look at CIA guys, post them yourself.


Fair enough -- to each his own. 

https://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAdullesA.htm
(Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell with JFK and former CIA Director John McCone)

(Richard Bissell)


----------



## DixieTrad

_No politics in this thread, please.--AlanC_


----------



## wnh

Duck said:


> Third from the left, helluva a male camel toe


I could have done without that being pointed out to me. :crazy:


----------



## AldenPyle

Ron_A said:


> Fair enough -- to each his own.
> 
> https://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAdullesA.htm
> (Allen Dulles and Richard Bissell with JFK and former CIA Director John McCone)
> 
> (Richard Bissell)


Not bad. Like the sweater on the bottom one especially.
Kermit Roosevelt








Miles "The Equalizer" Copeland








E. Howard Hunt








William Colby


----------



## Ron_A

^ Very nice, Alden Pyle (and I thought you didn't take requests).


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Good pictures. I do not want to highjack the thread, but for those that are interested in the early days of the CIA, you should read The Very Best Men by Evan Thomas. Some of the early CIA plots sound like they came straight from a frat house.


----------



## Carolopolis

_No politics in this thread, please. --AlanC_


----------



## Ron_A

^ I will not be voting for Clinton or Obama, but don't see any reason for this thread to turn political.


----------



## cdcro

Ron_A said:


> ^ I will not be voting for Clinton or Obama, but don't see any reason for this thread to turn political.


agreed, let's keep it clean


----------



## AldenPyle

Ron_A said:


> ^ Very nice, Alden Pyle (and I thought you didn't take requests).


I don't take requests, but I can be inspired!

TomBuchanon, thanks for the recommendation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Ron_A* https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?p=736192#post736192 
_^ I will not be voting for Clinton or Obama, but don't see any reason for this thread to turn political._

Good point. I deleted the political reference in my previous post. I would suggest others do as well.


----------



## AlanC

Political references removed above. Let's keep things on track.


----------



## paper clip

AP, nice (non politcal) Edward Woodward reference!


----------



## swb120

Posting the photo of the President & Mrs. Clinton wasn't intended to start a political discussion...I just thought it was a) a funny photo and b) a nice juxtaposition of the WWII generation v. 60's generation, as embodied in our best-known representatives from both groups. Sorry if some took it as a political post.


----------



## DixieTrad

Carolopolis said:


> _No politics in this thread, please. --AlanC_


Who is to determine that my comment was political? The thread is "American Trad Men". Bill Clinton's clothing and hairstyle choice in that photograph, and in current photos, would never be considered trad. The same can be said of his wife.

I resent you assuming that I would post a political comment on this thread.


----------



## Carolopolis

ditto.



DixieTrad said:


> Who is to determine that my comment was political? The thread is "American Trad Men". Bill Clinton's clothing and hairstyle choice in that photograph, and in current photos, would never be considered trad. The same can be said of his wife.
> 
> I resent you assuming that I would post a political comment on this thread.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

How about Matlock?


----------



## Lawson

AdamsSutherland said:


> How about Matlock?


He got my vote on the Trad Men on TV thread. His gray seersucker suit, conservative repp ties, and plaid sport shirts looked distinguished compared with the AmJack outfits of his clients.


----------



## AldenPyle

*A Fan's Notes*

1) On further research, the band I posted above was "The Sunray's", an opening band for the Beach Boys along with Dennis Wilson. Still look very trad to me.
2) PaperClip - Hard to believe that show was 20 years ago. 
3) Bill Clinton, today, is very well dressed. Not an icon, but well dressed. I also like the turtleneck, cord jacket combo he is wearing in the 60's shot. Not as much as I like GHWB's tweed 3 patch pocket sack, though.


----------



## Doctor Damage

You guys have dug out some good photos lately. Well, mostly good! I will try to assemble a list of all the online sources I use for finding photos and post them here for reference.

DD


----------



## Doctor Damage

*On-line image archives (links)...*

For reference, here's all the photo archives I've used in the past. Hopefully AlanC can copy these to the permanent reference thread at the top of the forum. Keep in mind when using these websites it is always best to wait for all thumbnails to load before clicking on individual photos for enlargement; for some of these websites the thumbnails stop loading when you click on an image.

Getty:
https://www.gettyimages.com/
https://www.legacyeditorial.gettyimages.com/
(first link is the new site; use the second link for the old site which is much more dial-up friendly)

ViewImages:
https://www.viewimages.com/
(sometimes lets you save images, sometimes not; it is a duplicate of about 50% of the Getty archives)

Corbis:

(the other big site, fewer images than Getty but sometimes better quality)

Here are a bunch of other websites, only a few of which I have actually checked out. Some are quite specialized so you will just have to explore them for yourself.
https://www.mediastorehouse.com/
https://www.wireimage.com/
https://www.camerapress.com/
https://www.paphotos.com/
https://www.digitalgallery.nypl.org/
https://www.otherimagespress.com/
https://www.fotolibra.com/

Happy hunting!

DD


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> For reference, here's all the photo archives I've used in the past. Hopefully AlanC can copy these to the permanent reference thread at the top of the forum. Keep in mind when using these websites it is always best to wait for all thumbnails to load before clicking on individual photos for enlargement; for some of these websites the thumbnails stop loading when you click on an image.
> 
> Getty:
> https://www.gettyimages.com/
> https://www.legacyeditorial.gettyimages.com/
> (first link is the new site; use the second link for the old site which is much more dial-up friendly)
> 
> ViewImages:
> https://www.viewimages.com/
> (sometimes lets you save images, sometimes not; it is a duplicate of about 50% of the Getty archives)
> 
> Corbis:
> 
> (the other big site, fewer images than Getty but sometimes better quality)
> 
> Here are a bunch of other websites, only a few of which I have actually checked out. Some are quite specialized so you will just have to explore them for yourself.
> https://www.mediastorehouse.com/
> https://www.wireimage.com/
> https://www.camerapress.com/
> https://www.paphotos.com/
> https://www.digitalgallery.nypl.org/
> https://www.otherimagespress.com/
> https://www.fotolibra.com/
> 
> Happy hunting!
> 
> DD


Thanks DD, Google images wasn't quite cutting it anymore.


----------



## AldenPyle

Striking evidence what a good suit can accomplish


----------



## Lawson

Thanks, DD. I'll take a stab.

More GHWB, before the garish red suits



















Paul Newman dressed most Trad while eating popcorn and striking a relaxed pose. Ignore the shades in pic #2.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I'm stunned by those photos of Paul Newman. I always think of him wearing some sort of flashy suit, never classic TNSIL or trad.

Great finds, Lawson and AldenPyle.

DD


----------



## jar2574

AldenPyle said:


> Not bad. Like the sweater on the bottom one especially.
> Kermit Roosevelt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Miles "The Equalizer" Copeland
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E. Howard Hunt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> William Colby


Collars seem much shorter today than they used to be, at least judging from these pictures.

Thanks for posting them.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Getty Images are Great - Thanks Doc (and J. Paul)*

Edd Byrnes
Time travel Trad








Americana R' US








I got a Fever (Note Buttondown w/ Tux)


----------



## Lawson

Are Andy Rooney's eyebrows as Trad as his clothes?


----------



## Sartre

Lawson said:


> Are Andy Rooney's eyebrows as Trad as his clothes?


Andy Rooney comes from the venerable _americanus disheveledensus_ strain of Trad. In this strain the eyebrows are permitted to reach the size of Scottish terriers until every quarter century, when the hedge clippers are brought to bear....

Tjs


----------



## Reddington

A couple of trads presenting Mr. Richard Starkey with a gold-plated snare drum. The chap on the right is Mr. William Ludwig of Ludwig drums.


----------



## AldenPyle

*RFK's estate should sue Thom Browne*


----------



## Sartre

^ Wow. And note the effect: Makes RFK's head look the size of a medicine ball.


----------



## Patrick06790

^ Double wow. How tall is the kid? RFK was a diminutive man, apparently.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Bobby obviously never gave a damn about what he was wearing!

DD


----------



## randomdude

According to the Internet Movie Database, which for some reason is very good about providing people's heights, RFK was 5'9".


----------



## Naval Gent

I just feel sorry for the owner of that poor car.

Scott


----------



## AldenPyle

Personally, I am imagining Ted in Thom Browne.


----------



## paper clip

AldenPyle said:


> Personally, I am imagining Ted in Thom Browne.


That'd be 10 lbs. of errr...ah... pork in a 5 lb. wrapper!


----------



## AldenPyle

*All worship the style god*









From a photobook on the Trad king.https://www.amazon.com/Time-Was-Bob...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209731169&sr=8-1


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

*How to Wear a V-Neck*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## randomdude

Vanity Fair this month has some incredible shots of Bobby. Sack suits, striped ties, good stuff!


----------



## AldenPyle

randomdude said:


> Vanity Fair this month has some incredible shots of Bobby. Sack suits, striped ties, good stuff!


Sorry to Vanity Fair. I stole that picture from their site. The VF feature is about the book I linked. Also, TGCWCID, hat tip to https://acontinuouslean.com/


----------



## mwilliamspr

AldenPyle said:


> Sorry to Vanity Fair. I stole that picture from their site. The VF feature is about the book I linked. Also, TGCWCID, hat tip to https://acontinuouslean.com/


Thanks for the nod Alden Pyle. What does TGCWCID mean?


----------



## AldenPyle

mwilliamspr said:


> Thanks for the nod Alden Pyle. What does TGCWCID mean?


Sorry, that was just cryptic boilerplate TGCWCID is To Give Credit Where...
I enjoy the blog, BTW, I've become a big fan of Free and Easy.


----------



## mwilliamspr

AldenPyle said:


> Sorry, that was just cryptic boilerplate TGCWCID is To Give Credit Where...
> I enjoy the blog, BTW, I've become a big fan of Free and Easy.


Now it makes sense. I too am clearly obsessed with Free & Easy. Leave it to the Japanese to collect all of that American goodness in one place. I wonder if the new issue is out? Do you know?


----------



## AldenPyle

mwilliamspr said:


> Now it makes sense. I too am clearly obsessed with Free & Easy. Leave it to the Japanese to collect all of that American goodness in one place. I wonder if the new issue is out? Do you know?


I have the May issue, the one on boots.


----------



## kforton

*Howard Dean*

Anyone notice Howard Dean last night on the Tonight Show? He was wearing a sack suit that looked about 20 years old. He is from WASP New York, after all.


----------



## Doctor Damage

kforton said:


> Anyone notice Howard Dean last night on the Tonight Show? He was wearing a sack suit that looked about 20 years old. He is from WASP New York, after all.


The following photo is from 2003 and he's wearing a suit with 3/2 roll and shiny Sebago Classic penny loafers.


----------



## Ron_A

*Howard Dean*

He is something of a Trad. (FWIW, I'm not necessarily a fan of his politics -- only of his trad-like wardrobe -- and don't mean to invite any political discourse into this thread, as sometimes happens.)


----------



## bandofoutsiders

Benjamin Spock:


All Ivy here.

Rockin' the Brownshoe specs.

Lee Harvey Oswald.


----------



## Joe Beamish

That's a very startling photo -- I think you are making a fascinating point. Not sure what it is, but still. 

I'm not loving that collar roll on Oswald. Is that even a button-down? No wonder he shot the most successful member of the ultimate ivy league icon family .


----------



## Ron_A

Joe Beamish said:


> No wonder he shot the most successful member of the ultimate ivy league icon family .


What makes you so sure it was him, acting alone?


----------



## Ron_A

He's in need of a shave and some new glasses, but I'm really digging his outfit. I'm assuming that this is the gentleman who writes books on child-rearing. Don't know much about him -- and wouldn't have thought to look for photos of him -- but he certainly has the look down.


----------



## Markus

Ron_A said:


> He's in need of a shave and some new glasses...[/QUOTE]
> 
> Nah, he's good to go exactly the way he is. He could give lessons to those who think that trad has to be a purely a white wonder bread look.


----------



## bandofoutsiders

Joe Beamish said:


> That's a very startling photo -- I think you are making a fascinating point. Not sure what it is, but still.
> 
> I'm not loving that collar roll on Oswald. Is that even a button-down? No wonder he shot the most successful member of the ultimate ivy league icon family .


No really trying to make a point. Was bored at work so I did a search on Corbis. Searched Spock because I was once told I had glasses like his. Oswald came up under a search for Kennedy and I noticed the collegiate hair and natural shoulders.


----------



## AldenPyle

Markus said:


> Nah, he's good to go exactly the way he is. He could give lessons to those who think that trad has to be a purely a white wonder bread look.


Nice pics, Bo'O. Spock was some sort of Olympic quality rower so its probably not surprising he is a prep. I'm no stickler for a clean-shave, but I think Dr. Spock does look a lot better in the bottom picture than in the top.


----------



## Zot!

*Current Events*

I realize name Kennedy tends to polarize people, but given recent events I thought I would honor the administration that ushered-in the high water mark of trad:

AP File Photo.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## rsmeyer

AldenPyle said:


>


Princeton?


----------



## Preu Pummel

AldenPyle said:


>


The Rolling Stones pre-flower power, RIGHT?


----------



## Forbes

Not Princeton. Columbia. The steps of Low Library, presumably pre-1968 rising (how pre-, I'm not quite sure), at the height of the Morningside campus. Roar Lions, Roar.


----------



## AldenPyle

Forbes is right, it is Columbia. Its actually a protest rally against the dismissal of a controversial lecturer - Charles van Doren from the quiz show scandal.


----------



## Forbes

I wouldn't have guessed the photo was that old, but interesting none the less. One of my favorites, "Quiz Show."


----------



## bd79cc

AldenPyle said:


>


I enjoyed the "delicious" juxtaposition of this Columbia photo with your signature, Alden.


----------



## ds23pallas

I picked up this book a few days ago and I thought you might appreciate the cover shot. I have to finish the memoirs of Canadian Rene Levesque before I dig into this one.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Photos of H. Armstrong Roberts*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Lawson

GHWB sports Trad duds at the Summer Olympics.


----------



## AldenPyle

Give credit on the last one to https://www.l23.org


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## MikeMadison




----------



## MikeMadison

I know that it's fiction, but I think they fit the bill.


----------



## rl1856

I love Mad Men, but very few 3r2 Sacks, no OCBD and few Rep ties. On many of the 3b suits, you can easily see darts and on some the shoulders are built up.

Pete Campbell and Duck Phillps seem the most Trad as defined on this forum.

Best,

Ross


----------



## MikeMadison

You're very right, and that's built into the show's canon. While the office is definitely dominated by an Anglo-Saxon air, Campbell's the one who comes from an incredibly influential and wealthy family.

To me, Duck's always looked like an imitation of the older Bush. Very similar looks.


----------



## Chris H

I'd say Bert Cooper is probably the most 'Trad' as defined here.


----------



## Danny

has this already been posted?

on a related note I went to Rowan Oak in Mississippi a few weeks back and it was pretty cool. note the cedar trees lining the walk...they were meant to clean the air [I suppose they do].


----------



## AldenPyle

Via Continuous Lean, the costume designer at Mad Men comments on each characters look.

https://www.valetmag.com/style/profiles-features/2008/dressing_the_part2.php

Probably the most Trad:









*Ken Cosgrove* (played by Aaron Stanton)
"Ken has this all-American, clean-cut look. There's an easiness to his button-down collars and slim repp ties, worn with a simple tie bar. He wears a lot light, neutral colors and plain brown oxford lace-ups. And you'll notice that certain suits will reappear. I always keep in mind that the characters are actually people and they've got closets, so they repeat looks, mix pieces and make them their own."


----------



## rsmeyer

Danny said:


> has this already been posted?
> 
> on a related note I went to Rowan Oak in Mississippi a few weeks back and it was pretty cool. note the cedar trees lining the walk...they were meant to clean the air [I suppose they do].


Faulkner was the epitome of Southern Trad.


----------



## redmanca

Some old Southern Trad. From the Pickens/Clemson, SC area.









Thomas Green Clemson (before trad I guess, but I like it anyways).









*Mr. William Scott, superintendent of schools*









*Judge William A. Hart*









*Dr. David E. Peek*









*Rev. Lynch, Presbyterian Minister*

(All photos courtesy of: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pcls/ )

Conor.


----------



## AldenPyle

Im not sure who this is, but apparently if you need a date in Dogpatch, he is the guy to see.


----------



## Zot!

AldenPyle said:


> Im not sure who this is...


Please tell me you're being facetious and have actually seen reruns _Green Acres_ before:

If you haven't, you're missing out. Truly a surreal masterpiece.


----------



## AldenPyle

Zot! said:


> Please tell me you're being facetious and have actually seen reruns _Green Acres_ before:
> 
> If you haven't, you're missing out. Truly a surreal masterpiece.


Facetious. I just thought the purple suit was great. In fact, I recall attending a GA retrospective in college, Eva, Drucker and Haney showed; Eddie Albert was ill.


----------



## rsmeyer

*John Cheever*

}


----------



## fenway

Zot! said:


> Please tell me you're being facetious and have actually seen reruns _Green Acres_ before:
> 
> If you haven't, you're missing out. Truly a surreal masterpiece.


One of my favorite shows of all time.

Ever notice that in "Green Acres", the main character was "normal" and reacted to all the "crazies" around him, where in "The Beverly Hillbillies", they were "crazies" and reacted to the "normals" around them?


----------



## AldenPyle

fenway said:


> One of my favorite shows of all time.
> 
> Ever notice that in "Green Acres", the main character was "normal" and reacted to all the "crazies" around him, where in "The Beverly Hillbillies", they were "crazies" and reacted to the "normals" around them?


Whereas in "Petticoat Junction" everyone is just sort of boring (though often buxom).


----------



## Zot!

^Quite right, Alden. _Green Acres_ was genius, _Petticoat_ was buxom banalty.



fenway said:


> One of my favorite shows of all time.
> 
> Ever notice that in "Green Acres", the main character was "normal" and reacted to all the "crazies" around him, where in "The Beverly Hillbillies", they were "crazies" and reacted to the "normals" around them?


The real irony behind the show is that, depite Lisa's complaining in the opening sequence, she takes to Hooterville like a fish to water whereas Oliver is confounded at nearly every turn. Somebody once pointed out that _Newhart_ was an updated _Green Acres_.


----------



## Naval Gent

fenway said:


> One of my favorite shows of all time.
> 
> Ever notice that in "Green Acres", the main character was "normal" and reacted to all the "crazies" around him, where in "The Beverly Hillbillies", they were "crazies" and reacted to the "normals" around them?


Yeah, I never figured out what was eatin' that crazy Mrs Drysdale.

Scott


----------



## Zot!

Oh, and speaking of _Newhart_:


----------



## AldenPyle

*Milburn Drysdale, Very Trad*










Naval Gent said:


> Yeah, I never figured out what was eatin' that crazy Mrs Drysdale.
> 
> Scott


----------



## Zot!

^That's Miss Hathaway. Unless they're supposed to be pointing at Mrs. Drysdale. Miss Hathaway was a bit odd, what with her fixation on Jethro and all, but Mrs. Drysdale was just an uptight prude.


----------



## AldenPyle

Zot! said:


> ^That's Miss Hathaway. Unless they're supposed to be pointing at Mrs. Drysdale. Miss Hathaway was a bit odd, what with her fixation on Jethro and all, but Mrs. Drysdale was just an uptight prude.


 I know, the point was MR. Drysdale's look.


----------



## fenway

AldenPyle said:


>


I always liked that Mr. Drysdale wore a homburg.

I also never knew, until I saw Raymond Bailey in other movies, that he wore a toupee!


----------



## Literide

rl1856 said:


> I love Mad Men, but very few 3r2 Sacks, no OCBD and few Rep ties. On many of the 3b suits, you can easily see darts and on some the shoulders are built up.
> 
> Pete Campbell and Duck Phillps seem the most Trad as defined on this forum.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ross


Duck Phillips son goes to St. Pauls but its unclear how priveleged Duck's upbringing may have been.


----------



## Literide

MikeMadison said:


> You're very right, and that's built into the show's canon. While the office is definitely dominated by an Anglo-Saxon air, Campbell's the one who comes from an incredibly influential and wealthy family.
> 
> To me, Duck's always looked like an imitation of the older Bush. Very similar looks.


And as we learn about Peter Campbell, and not unlike many old NY "WASP" families, he is a mix of Scottish and Dutch. While coming from inherited money, he doesnt seem to have a trust fund, and his mothers inheritance has been drawn down by his father.

Its also made clear that many of the more senior execs, while "WASPS" are products of the GI bill rather than any sort of privelege.


----------



## hydepark

*Dr. Elmer Pfefferkorn*


----------



## Zot!

An interesting photo from the Chicago Sun Times photo archive:

What I find interesting is that this photo, taken in 1969, really shows the transition between the 60's & 70's. Collins is wearing cuff links. The lapels on Neil Armstrong's jacket are still fairly narrow. But ties have already started to become wide again. These ties are about what we would call "standard" width today, but are quite wide by 60's standards. Not nearly as wide as they would become in the '70s, though:










I've always wondered if you could pinpoint when tie widths began their upward climb. Most of the photos I've seen of the '68 RFK campaign show fairly narrow ties. So I'm guessing it had to be '69.


----------



## Miket61

fenway said:


> One of my favorite shows of all time.
> 
> Ever notice that in "Green Acres", the main character was "normal" and reacted to all the "crazies" around him, where in "The Beverly Hillbillies", they were "crazies" and reacted to the "normals" around them?


It could also be said that "The Munsters" considered themselves normal and were blithely oblivious to all but the most obvious reactions to their strangeness, while "The Addams Family" revelled in their strangeness and were far too wealthy to care what other people thought.

Gomez and Morticia dressed for dinner, had appropriate clothing for even the most esoteric activities, and enjoyed fencing. But his chalk-stripe double-breasted suits were always a bit too flamboyant to be truly trad...


----------



## Zot!

Miket61 said:


> It could also be said that "The Munsters" considered themselves normal and were blithely oblivious to all but the most obvious reactions to their strangeness, while "The Addams Family" revelled in their strangeness and were far too wealthy to care what other people thought.
> 
> Gomez and Morticia dressed for dinner, had appropriate clothing for even the most esoteric activities, and enjoyed fencing. But his chalk-stripe double-breasted suits were always a bit too flamboyant to be truly trad...


No, the Addams' weren't remotely _American_ trad. I always got the impression they were from old, European money. And it wasn't so much that they reveled in their strangeness. They simply had, from their standpoint, superior tastes and breeding, and all of us poor clods had to be forgiven if we didn't quite get it. _Noblesse Oblige_, you know.


----------



## AldenPyle

Zot! said:


> No, the Addams' weren't remotely _American_ trad. I always got the impression they were from old, European money. And it wasn't so much that they reveled in their strangeness. They simply had, from their standpoint, superior tastes and breeding, and all of us poor clods had to be forgiven if we didn't quite get it. _Noblesse Oblige_, you know.


I would have said the opposite. Maybe because of the name, the Addams seem like a degenerate New England family, more HP Lovecraft than Marquis de Sade.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Naval Gent

^Somebody better tell that guy you can't wear loafers and a button-down with a suit :icon_smile_winkSheesh, what would we do without the internet?)

Scott

BTW- sombody please id that car for me. thx


----------



## ds23pallas

Naval Gent said:


> BTW- sombody please id that car for me. thx


It's an early 1950's Nash-Healy roadster.


----------



## Pgolden

I think he looks pretty cool. Anyone know who it is?



AldenPyle said:


>


----------



## Joe Beamish

Looks like Wm Holden


----------



## dshell

Joe Beamish said:


> Looks like Wm Holden


Based on the WAYW thread, he looks like AldenPyle.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe - Correct. Thats Holden as David Larrabee in "Sabrina". The most hawkish of Trad-hawks could find no fault with Holden's outfits in that movie, while Bogart would be a model for the Quasi-Trad. I wonder how big a part this (1954) movie had in taking the Ivy League look mainstream. Thanks, dshell, I try but unfortunately any resemblence to Holden is strictly aspirational on my part.

Maybe I should put this one on the collar roll thread. 









also wonder if any actress has been courted by more sack suits than Miss Hepburn.


----------



## Naval Gent

ds23pallas said:


> It's an early 1950's Nash-Healy roadster.


Thanks. Very sweet car I wasn't aware of. I would have guessed Italian; Wikipedia says coachwork by Pininfarina. It's a '52 or '53 based on the grille. Says '54 was coupes only. Then no more.

Scott


----------



## ds23pallas

Naval Gent said:


> Thanks. Very sweet car I wasn't aware of. I would have guessed Italian; Wikipedia says coachwork by Pininfarina. It's a '52 or '53 based on the grille. Says '54 was coupes only. Then no more.
> 
> Scott


You are welcome. I was raised from day one on strange and esoteric European cars. My parents brought me home from the hospital as a newborn in a 1960 Porsche (still have that in my garage) and when my father sold our beloved 1963 Saab in the 70's, my sister and I shed tears in protest!


----------



## ds23pallas

This pic has been in a couple of magazines over the years, I always quite liked it.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Great pic. Do you happen to know what year (or decade) it's from?

It's hard to say -- but then that's part of the appeal.


----------



## ds23pallas

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Great pic. Do you happen to know what year (or decade) it's from?
> 
> It's hard to say -- but then that's part of the appeal.


No, I don't. It was in GQ a couple of years ago (as part of a surprisingly good article "How'd You Get Your Clothes to Look So Old?") and I also read somewhere that it was in another magazine in the late '80's. However, who knows how old the picture is for as you pointed out, that is part of the appeal of the style.


----------



## rsmeyer

ds23pallas said:


> No, I don't. It was in GQ a couple of years ago (as part of a surprisingly good article "How'd You Get Your Clothes to Look So Old?") and I also read somewhere that it was in another magazine in the late '80's. However, who knows how old the picture is for as you pointed out, that is part of the appeal of the style.


From the late, great M Magazine-mid 80's.


----------



## Zot!

I found this circa 1860's photo of a "sack suit" on google, because I was going to post about how the sack as we know it is still much different from the original sack. But I stand corrected:

The jacket itself is in many ways similar to one you'd buy at J. Press today. The main differences are:

(1) This jacket is rumpled and oversized, which isn't suprising as the sack originated as a kind of mass-produced answer to the more fitted suits of the day and;

(2) Context: as the site explains, this is 1860's _casual wear._ I.e., the equivalent of jeans and a t-shirt today. The site:
https://historicparks.org/imagegallery/delaosa/pages/UnknownDeLaOsa_jpg.htm


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Right. The absence of hat and tie seem to indicate that these are not church clothes or formal wear. Nor does the jacket appear to be the same color as the vest and pants.

I rather like the roping in the shoulders.


----------



## JMC

Dr. Walter Edgar. South Carolina historian, professor, barbecue enthusiast.

His radio show makes Friday afternoons that much more enjoyable.


----------



## a4audi08

https://lh5.ggpht.com/_8NnDAJev5SE/R_VYr_v4j-I/AAAAAAAAAFc/Gk5Lq5I5qe0/DSC03584.JPG


----------



## AldenPyle

*Guilty..of being too Trad*









H.R. Haldeman


----------



## Zot!

*Transition*

A look at the State of the Union, so to speak:
The 2-b darted solid navy with a white, spread collar shirt and a light blue tie seems to have now become the de-facto suit of American heads of state.

From Reuters:


----------



## Zot!

While I'm on the subject:


----------



## Patrick06790

*From the fly-fishing archives*

This must be in the Catskills, ca. 1950


----------



## paper clip

^ great pics. Reminds me of my Grandpa who on any visit to our house would always wear a coat, tie and hat.


----------



## boatshoe

*WFB*


----------



## NoPleats

I think LBJ could've gotten away with slightly wider lapels and tie, even during the mid-60s. He was not a small human and, proportionately, he could have carried it off well, IMO.


----------



## Zot!

NoPleats said:


> I think LBJ could've gotten away with slightly wider lapels and tie, even during the mid-60s. He was not a small human and, proportionately, he could have carried it off well, IMO.


Though he liked to cultivate the larger-than-life persona, something tells me LBJ wasn't into the style thing nearly as much as JFK. His staff members probably just had his measurements sent someplace widely thought of as "nice," like Brooks Brothers.

If only our avatars here were rectangles, I would change mine to this:


----------



## dshell

If you've not yet heard, google is hosting LIFE magazine's photo archive online. You can search it easily by going to
https://images.google.com/hosted/life

Here are some early finds that came up.
(I apologize for the large image sizes, I've linked directly to google rather than resizing and uploading to a third-party.)
I wasn't being particularly creative about the search terms:


----------



## AldenPyle

Great pictures. Incredibly high res.


----------



## Reddington

Thanks for the heads-up on the Life / Google link. Looking forward to some great pictures showing up on this thread.

Cheers.


----------



## Reddington

*Dr. William Seale*

White House historian & author Dr. William Seale. He's on C-SPAN all week during 'White House Week' (9 PM E/P).


----------



## Markus

*Tom Wolfe tells the story of LBJ and his clothing...*



Zot! said:


> Though he liked to cultivate the larger-than-life persona, something tells me LBJ wasn't into the style thing nearly as much as JFK. His staff members probably just had his measurements sent someplace widely thought of as "nice," like Brooks Brothers.
> 
> If only our avatars here were rectangles, I would change mine to this:


Tom Wolfe has a wonderful piece on men's clothes titled "The Secret Vice"--it has been mentioned hereabouts several times--and he tells the story of JFK's influence on LBJ, that when LBJ saw how JFK dressed and how his suits fitted he (according to Wolfe, who, no doubt took some artistic liberties in telling the tale) thought "Mah clothes look lak arn boy cuvveralls", so he headed off to Savile Row and told them "Make me look like a British Diplomat..."
True or not, it is a great essay and can be found in the compilation "The Kandy Kolored Tangerine Flake Streamline Baby".


----------



## P Hudson

I love this picture, esp. the way he buttons the bottom two buttons on his jacket.

[/quote]


----------



## charlie500

Markus said:


> Tom Wolfe has a wonderful piece on men's clothes titled "The Secret Vice"--it has been mentioned hereabouts several times--and he tells the story of JFK's influence on LBJ, that when LBJ saw how JFK dressed and how his suits fitted he (according to Wolfe, who, no doubt took some artistic liberties in telling the tale) thought "Mah clothes look lak arn boy cuvveralls", so he headed off to Savile Row and told them "Make me look like a British Diplomat..."
> True or not, it is a great essay and can be found in the compilation "The Kandy Kolored Tangerine Flake Streamline Baby".


----------



## charlie500

Merry Christmas from the Kennedys


----------



## Thomas Hart

Have any of you fellows noticed that old money who are just holding on and have interesting jobs dress more trad than old money who still have powerful jobs (i.e. David Rockefeller, Joseph Reed).


----------



## randomdude

Thomas Hart said:


> Have any of you fellows noticed that old money who are just holding on and have interesting jobs dress more trad than old money who still have powerful jobs (i.e. David Rockefeller, Joseph Reed).


What?


----------



## Thomas Hart

Sorry, I suppose that was a bit unclear. Have you ever noticed though that someone from old money, from where this look originated, who is not very wealthy anymore or does not have a job or has an interesting job would tend to dress more tradly than someone from old money whom still makes money and goes to a conventional job such as banking or being a lawyer.

If I am still unclear just ignore my musings.


----------



## Thomas Hart

*I'm pretty sure it's not darted...*


----------



## Mannix

I'm pretty much in love with Cary Grant....terrific picture.


----------



## Thomas Hart

I know, hes one of the best dressed men in history.
On another note, it would appear he's in Miami, and men are wearing suits and women have clothes on. Its rather annoying how much things change.


----------



## rsmeyer

Thomas Hart said:


> I know, hes one of the best dressed men in history.
> On another note, it would appear he's in Miami, and men are wearing suits and women have clothes on. Its rather annoying how much things change.


No-he's in Monaco, in "To Catch A Thief".


----------



## Thomas Hart

I see. I haven't seen that movie since I was a child.
I actually prefer this outfit to his one in North by Northwest, that suit is a little too simple for my taste.


----------



## Hayek

Thomas Hart said:


> Sorry, I suppose that was a bit unclear. Have you ever noticed though that someone from old money, from where this look originated, who is not very wealthy anymore or does not have a job or has an interesting job would tend to dress more tradly than someone from old money whom still makes money and goes to a conventional job such as banking or being a lawyer.
> 
> If I am still unclear just ignore my musings.


In the business world french cuffs and darts are more common than sacks and repp stripes, so it makes sense that your average investment banker, consultant, or corporate lawyer would be less trad than those why have "more interesting" although lower paid jobs such as college professor, journalist, etc.


----------



## jeph

rsmeyer said:


> No-he's in Monaco, in "To Catch A Thief".


The photo is taken in Cannes. Cary Grant is crossing La Croisette right in front of the Carlton Hotel.

Jeph


----------



## Reddington

*John P. Flannery II*

From johnpflannery.com:
John, a former federal prosecutor from New York, is listed in "Who's Who in America", and he is a regular guest commentator on TV and radio on law and politics including Fox News, the O'Reilly Factor, and Chris Matthews Hardball.


----------



## randomdude

^ Great hair, I'm very jealous. Still got the frat shag going at his age!


----------



## charlie500




----------



## The Louche

Thomas Hart said:


> Sorry, I suppose that was a bit unclear. Have you ever noticed though that someone from old money, from where this look originated, who is not very wealthy anymore or does not have a job or has an interesting job would tend to dress more tradly than someone from old money whom still makes money and goes to a conventional job such as banking or being a lawyer.
> 
> If I am still unclear just ignore my musings.





Hayek said:


> In the business world french cuffs and darts are more common than sacks and repp stripes, so it makes sense that your average investment banker, consultant, or corporate lawyer would be less trad than those why have "more interesting" although lower paid jobs such as college professor, journalist, etc.


I work for "the oldest management consulting firm in the world." While I would never consider the people that work here highly paid in comparison to BigLaw or the iBanks (certainly not pre-2008), I suppose the partners make lots of dough. The few partners that obviously care about dress actually tend to be much more tradly than you'd think. I see PPBDs, repps, American-cut suits, tassels, and even bow ties more than I would have ever thought. This may have something to do with the Capitol Hill influence on our business, however, as Hill staffers have always been rather trad IMO. Just a thought...

This is a great thread BTW...


----------



## Zot!

It's hard to find stills that show it exactly, but the first few seasons of "Law & Order" had a pretty trad wardrobe:
















Stephen Hill, in particular, wore a lot of 3b sacks. Michael Moriarty & Dan Florek also wore a lot of button-down shirts with repp ties.










Of the current cast, only Sam Waterston regularly appears in anything that could be described as "trad"


----------



## Reddington

*Daniel Amos*

Daniel P. Amos, Chairman and CEO, Aflac


----------



## rsmeyer

Reddington said:


> Daniel P. Amos, Chairman and CEO, Aflac


Good trad hair.


----------



## Taliesin

*Griffin Bell*

Moments after having been sworn in as attorney general in 1977:










Died this morning:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/washington/06bell.html?hp


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

*John Kenneth Galbraith*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Dick Clark*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Prescott Bush*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Henry Cabot Lodge*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Lowell Weicker & Howard Baker at the Watergate Hearings*


----------



## AldenPyle

*More Howard Baker*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Lodge and Mcnamara*


----------



## Sartre

I remember Baker with the seersucker!


----------



## Joe Beamish

I really like that top photo (with the pencil) in post #593, in which Howard Baker is wearing a blue OCBD with a (glenplaid?) suit, dark frame eyeglasses, and a dark (very 70's in a good way) tie.

That's a great look. The lack of contrast between the shirt and suit is offset and anchored so nicely by the dark glasses and tie (and hair). 

Sans glasses, it certainly reminds me of stuff my dad wore in the late 60's/early to mid 70's.


----------



## Ron_A

^ Prescott Bush photo is impressive -- thanks for posting.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> I really like that top photo (with the pencil) in post #593, in which Howard Baker is wearing a blue OCBD with a (glenplaid?) suit, dark frame eyeglasses, and a dark (very 70's in a good way) tie.
> 
> That's a great look. The lack of contrast between the shirt and suit is offset and anchored so nicely by the dark glasses and tie (and hair).
> 
> Sans glasses, it certainly reminds me of stuff my dad wore in the late 60's/early to mid 70's.





Ron_A said:


> ^ Prescott Bush photo is impressive -- thanks for posting.


The Baker picture is a favorite also. He actually looks better wearing glasses. Grandpa Bush pulls off the specs well too. Makes me want to get some.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ These days for glasses I wear ugly contemporary metal rectangular things that will looked dated anytime now. Some female talked me into them once. 

But I have my eye on a pair of Japanese tortoise shell AA 406's that I've tried on and liked very much. I've been hesitant due to my bad judgment in the past. (Which is exactly why I've gone "trad" anyway.)


----------



## Reddington

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ These days for glasses I wear ugly contemporary metal rectangular things that will looked dated anytime now. Some female talked me into them once.
> 
> But I have my eye on a pair of Japanese tortoise shell AA 406's that I've tried on and liked very much. I've been hesitant due to my bad judgment in the past. (Which is exactly why I've gone "trad" anyway.)


Joe,

Get those 406's. You won't regret it.


----------



## Joe Beamish

:icon_smile_wink:


----------



## AldenPyle

Somebody must have posted this one before, but its about as close to the Platonic ideal as it gets so its probably worth posting again.


----------



## Sartre




----------



## Zot!

Sartre said:


>


I'm not really a big follower of either of these guys but there are so many damn Buckley pics on this forum that I can't resist taking some "equal time":










And the infamous meeting:


----------



## Sartre

^ I'm not a fan of WFB's politics (though I admired his independence of thought) but I thought this particular photo was iconic. 

Vidal's a ponce. The argument with Buckley is the only guarantee he will be remembered.


----------



## Khnelben

*JFK Jr ...*

a great link on a site about the late JFK Jr.

https://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_7407

and a modern look at his style.

Andrey


----------



## Zot!

Sartre said:


> ^ I'm not a fan of WFB's politics (though I admired his independence of thought) but I thought this particular photo was iconic.
> 
> Vidal's a ponce. The argument with Buckley is the only guarantee he will be remembered.


I see them as two sides of the same coin, really. Both came from influential families, both espoused radical verions of their parties' politics. Buckley was maybe a little more successful than Vidal because whereas Vidal always said, "This is why America sucks," Buckley seemed to say, "This is why America sucks, and we're the ones who can fix it!" But neither ever atained office, probably because (as our last President showed) you just can't rule effectively from one end of the spectrum.

In other sad & trad news, RIP John Updike:


----------



## AldenPyle

Zot! said:


> I see them as two sides of the same coin, really. Both came from influential families, both espoused radical verions of their parties' politics. Buckley was maybe a little more successful than Vidal because whereas Vidal always said, "This is why America sucks," Buckley seemed to say, "This is why America sucks, and we're the ones who can fix it!" But neither ever atained office, probably because (as our last President showed) you just can't rule effectively from one end of the spectrum.
> 
> In other sad & trad news, RIP John Updike:


Though I like reading Updike's essays and criticism, I have to admit I have never been drawn into his novels. I guess my problem is that every 5 years or so, I think that I should start with Rabbit Run, but just find it really bleak. Any suggestions for a first Updike novel to read?


----------



## Thomas Hart

AldenPyle said:


>


It's too bad such a despicable person dressed so marvelously.


----------



## paper clip

AldenPyle said:


> I have to admit I have never been drawn into [Updike's] his novels. I guess my problem is that every 5 years or so, I think that I should start with Rabbit Run, but just find it really bleak. Any suggestions for a first Updike novel to read?


Same here.


----------



## TMMKC

AldenPyle said:


> Though I like reading Updike's essays and criticism, I have to admit I have never been drawn into his novels. I guess my problem is that every 5 years or so, I think that I should start with Rabbit Run, but just find it really bleak. Any suggestions for a first Updike novel to read?


I was in the same boat up until a year ago. Updike was one of those authors whose works I've always felt I needed to read more of. Granted, _Rabbit Run_ is bleak...but it's worth the effort to charge through it. It's hard to like Harry "Rabbit" Angstrom. Though I'm sure most men (from time to time) can relate to some of his desperation, he's frustrating because he has so little self-awareness. One of my goals is to get through the entire Rabbit series in the next year or so. The final two installments, _Rabbit is Rich_ and _Rabbit at Rest_, won Pulitzer Prizes. Updike created some very lush prose in his life.

I'm sure others on the fora have advice as to which of his other (seemingly countless) books would be a good read.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Updike's fiction: I consider the final Rabbit to be the best of the bunch, and therefore cheerfully suggest starting with _Rabbit at Rest_ and working backwards as far as you like.

That said, I can't champion any of his novels (most of which I haven't read, actually) from beginning to end. The first half of _Rabbit at Rest_ is a marvel, but I think the rest should have been cut considerably.

_Of the Farm_ is a short novel (from the 60's) that I like very much. _Couples_ is dated and especially wearying today -- though I realize I'm making the standard assessment. You should decide for yourself.

And of course, wow, his essays. I'm particularly grateful to Updike for shining his beam on the relatively little known author Henry Green, about whom he wrote so passionately and brilliantly.

_Rabbit at Rest_ will offer you up the best of Updike's fictional treasures, though this isn't the standard assessment.


----------



## AldenPyle

I guess my problem with _Rabbit, Run_ is that it seems like a high school nerd revenge fantasy ("You're basketball captain now, but when I'm editing Harvard Crimson, you'll be selling vegetable peelers at Piggly Wiggly") gone haywire. Harry Angstrom seemed less like a person and more like a voodoo doll that Updike was torturing. ("When I'm writing for New Yorker, you'll be camped out in a cot at the back of the gym") ("When I get my first Pulitzer, you'll be shacked up with a fat $10 hooker.") Fun at first, but I just get a little tired of it. I guess I should make an effort to push through to see if he lets Rabbit up off the mat at the end. 
Well, time to post some pictures so that the moderators don't notice II'm not talking about clothes.


----------



## graphei

Khnelben said:


> a great link on a site about the late JFK Jr.
> 
> https://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_7407
> 
> and a modern look at his style.
> 
> Andrey


I took a look through that slideshow and sometimes I cannot believe he has been dead almost 10 years now.


----------



## Green3

graphei said:


> I took a look through that slideshow and sometimes I cannot believe he has been dead almost 10 years now.


I guess someone's irony meter was off when they put aviator glasses in.


----------



## Sartre

Read Updike's stories. "Pigeon feathers," "A&P," etc.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I think _Rabbit at Rest_ is a far better book than the much earlier _Rabbit, Run, _and comes satisfyingly close to capturing today's world as it is -- which I know is a terribly vague expression once you scrutinize it. But there's definitely something big there that I think is totally absent in the first book of the series.


----------



## gman-17

Probably the sharpest Democrat when it came to sartorial elegance. I am working on a book called: Never Wear a Tie Clark Clifford Wouldn't Wear. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## rsmeyer

gman-17 said:


> Probably the sharpest Democrat when it came to sartorial elegance. I am working on a book called: Never Wear a Tie Clark Clifford Wouldn't Wear. :icon_smile_big:


How about Dean Acheson, Tony Biddle, Angier Biddle Duke,John B.Kelly and JFK, just to name a few elegant Democrats?


----------



## gman-17

rsmeyer said:


> How about Dean Acheson, Tony Biddle, Angier Biddle Duke,John B.Kelly and JFK, just to name a few elegant Democrats?


A number of the individuals you list would have to make any list, but personal preference controls as to place on the list, don't you agree? Your post gave me a great opportunity to review pics--thanks! I am not sure that I would go along with JFK. He was a very good looking politician, but said by some to be a haphazard dresser. Cheers.


----------



## rsmeyer

gman-17 said:


> A number of the individuals you list would have to make any list, but personal preference controls as to place on the list, don't you agree? Your post gave me a great opportunity to review pics--thanks! I am not sure that I would go along with JFK. He was a very good looking politician, but said by some to be a haphazard dresser. Cheers.


Well said, friend.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Kennedy Aide Ted Sorenson*


----------



## boatshoe

Harvard students enact "minute man" on bridge during sixth anniversary celebration of Supreme Court decision ordering school desegregation.
Location:Concord, MA, USDate taken:May 1960


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

*Scoop Jackson 1960*


----------



## Ralph Kinney Bennett

*A GOOD FRIEND*

Thanks, Alden Pyle, for the picture of Scoop Jackson (sitting on a cot with his electric shaver -- this was probably taken during a Senate filibuster). The Senator from Washington was a good and gracious man and a friend. He was a great traditional dresser, but he had a problem -- he was color blind. When he was still a bachelor we used to kid him because he would occasionally show up on the Senate floor with two different color socks (black and blue, usually) or a bit of an odd tie. He had taken precautions in his wardrobe and usually did pretty well. Once he got married (to a very beautiful lady with wonderful taste) the fashion errors ceased. I am a conservative and he was pretty much a Roosevelt liberal (eminently realistic on foreign policy), but would that we had Senators of his caliber today -- real grown-ups -- no matter their politics.


----------



## PeterSawatzky

A curiosity:










Hugh Laurie in his younger days on "A Bit of Fry and Laurie," a sketch comedy show that aired on the BBC. This is the first time I've ever seen a British man wearing a sack in the 20th century.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I would just like to say WELL DONE! to all those who've added tons of stuff to this thread.

When I originally decided to start it I had no expectation it would take on a life of it's own and keep going a couple of years after I started it.

At the time I was sitting in a hotel room in a nearly empty hotel in Halifax, Nova Scotia, writing up my notes after touring some properties and praying that the massive snowstorm outside would abate by the next day so I could catch a plane home. I ran across those pics of Archibald Cox and I thought "hmmm, these might be just the thing..."


----------



## Patrick06790

Bookstore, Salisbury, Conn., ca. 1968-70


----------



## nhorween

Two of my favorites that I've come across... The one second from the right in the group photo is my great grandfather, Arnold Horween, Sr.


----------



## Jazzer

PeterSawatzky said:


> Hugh Laurie in his younger days on "A Bit of Fry and Laurie," a sketch comedy show that aired on the BBC. This is the first time I've ever seen a British man wearing a sack in the 20th century.


Is it possible he's dressed as an American for some comedic effect? Do Brits ever wear BD collars with suits? I wonder what he's singing about.


----------



## CMDC

From today's news. Probably our tradliest current justice. From his confirmation hearings...










And talk about a tradly house...


----------



## Doctor Damage

PeterSawatzky said:


> A curiosity:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hugh Laurie in his younger days on "A Bit of Fry and Laurie," a sketch comedy show that aired on the BBC. This is the first time I've ever seen a British man wearing a sack in the 20th century.


Well spotted indeed, quite a surprise!


----------



## aristoi

AldenPyle said:


>


Everything about the way this man is dressed looks right to me. The full-thighed pants, the jacket (sans the slightly too small lapels), the straightforward oxfords (?), the glasses (clubmasters?), even the haircut, all come together seamlessly. Perhaps in a thousand years, when some academic is creating a book on the clothing of the ancients, a picture like this will head the section on the buisiness suit.

If only more people dressed like this today...


----------



## PeterSawatzky

Jazzer said:


> Is it possible he's dressed as an American for some comedic effect? Do Brits ever wear BD collars with suits? I wonder what he's singing about.


No, he's "himself" in that picture. I forget what the song was about, but I don't think it had to do with anything American.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Ellsworth Bunker*


----------



## AldenPyle

I think Ellsworth Bunker is my new (sartorial) idol.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Wubba wubba


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Wubba wubba


Type "Paula Prentiss Source:Life" in Google Images!


----------



## AldenPyle

*Byron White*


----------



## Ron_A

*Ellsworth Bunker*

Great pictures of Ellsworth Bunker, AP. This one probably is my favorite. These are some of the best pictures in the thread, IMO.


----------



## CMDC

Interesting that the Whizzer has a baseball glove under his desk. He was an all American running back at U of Colorado. Two sport Trad I guess.


----------



## randomdude

^ Not just college football for Byron White:

In three NFL seasons, he played in 33 games. He led the league in rushing yards in 1938 and 1940, and he was one of the first "big money" NFL players, making $15,000 a year.[1] His career was cut short when he entered the United States Navy during World War II; after the war, he elected to attend law school rather than return to football. He was elected to the College Football Hall of Fame in 1954.[4]


----------



## AldenPyle

CMDC said:


> Interesting that the Whizzer has a baseball glove under his desk. He was an all American running back at U of Colorado. Two sport Trad I guess.


Most of the pictures in the Life archive were of the White family. I guess (based on the apparent size) that the glove is the boy's.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

AldenPyle said:


>


Is that Richard Benjamin (on the right, of course)?


----------



## Bruce Wayne

gman-17 said:


> Probably the sharpest Democrat when it came to sartorial elegance. I am working on a book called: Never Wear a Tie Clark Clifford Wouldn't Wear. :icon_smile_big:


I know that's not who this is, but he reminds me of G.D. Spradlin as Senator Geary from The Godfather, Part II. Does anyone else see it?


----------



## AldenPyle

Bruce Wayne said:


> Is that Richard Benjamin (on the right, of course)?


Caption does not say, but it must be.


----------



## AldenPyle

*I shall not today attempt further to define Trad but I know it when I see it.*

_







_








Potter Stewart in 1958


----------



## Joe Tradly

Well played, AP.

JB


----------



## AldenPyle

^Thanks
G.H.W. Bush from 1950. Wearing Pleats!


----------



## CMDC

Pretty clear that that's W on the horse.


----------



## PeterSawatzky

Second in my series, "Sack Suits in Obscure Sketch Comedy Shows":









Bob Odenkirk in "Mr. Show."


----------



## AldenPyle

PeterSawatzky said:


> Second in my series, "Sack Suits in Obscure Sketch Comedy Shows":
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Odenkirk in "Mr. Show."


Cool. Coincidentally, he is interviewed today on Adam Carolla's podcast. 
https://carollaradio.com/


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Joe Beamish

^ I love that guy. Can't stop reading him.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Ralph Lauren, photographed by .


----------



## Joe Tradly

Good find, DD. Some great pictures in his "business" spread, here.

JB


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> Ralph Lauren, photographed by .


I agree that is a great pic. One of my winter favorites is rust cord, forest green lambswool sweater combo.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Tennis at Camelot*

Bobby 








Bundy








Rostow








Maxwell Taylor


----------



## Cardinals5

Is that a flap on a chest pocket? I do like the ps on the middle fellow. I wish students still wore pocket squares to class.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Do students even wear collared shirts to class anymore?


----------



## Cardinals5

Joe Beamish said:


> Do students even wear collared shirts to class anymore?


Sometimes, but frequently paired with pajama bottoms and flipflops :crazy:

Here's a fun one of Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke


----------



## Cardinals5

I'm not sure which makes me more uncomfortable, the look on President Bush's face or those socks with boat shoes. :icon_smile:


----------



## AldenPyle

*Jim Gavin at Harvard*


----------



## Reds & Tops

has a great posting up today, circa 1981.

I'd post all the pictures, but that would just take too long. Here's 3 I liked.


----------



## Ron_A

^ Great pics on HTJ's blog. A few guys with bit loafers on, too.


----------



## PeterSawatzky

From the brilliant AwkwardFamilyPhotos.com:


----------



## mjo_1

PeterSawatzky said:


> From the brilliant AwkwardFamilyPhotos.com:


That site really is a gem....thanks for reminding me of it!

Michael


----------



## Cardinals5

Woody Allen trad - I know EastVillageTrad posted a few photos of Woody Allen in the past, but here are some more.

I like this one the best - probably because of Scarlet


----------



## Cardinals5

Sporty Trad perfection


----------



## AldenPyle

*Former World Bank Head Robert McNamara*


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ One of my favorite dressers: Fastball over the plate every time.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Julian Bond*


----------



## Joe Beamish

Yet another example of NOT requiring or desiring a pocket square every time.


----------



## Ken88

*Ellsworth Bunker Revisited....and a few others*

Ellsworth Bunker (U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam) (was featured earlier in this thread, but just found a few more)































































Sherman Adams (Presidential Advisor)










Gen. George C. Marshall on vacation


----------



## Reds & Tops

What was life like before the LIFE archive?


----------



## C. Sharp

Reds & Tops said:


> What was life like before the LIFE archive?


Some people were inclined to spend hours looking at smelly old magazines. Oh course you could not share your great finds. 
I would hate to confess of much time I spent looking at old issues of Life, The Saturday Evening Post and the New Yorker when I was at school.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ And Playboy


----------



## Jovan

Cardinals5 said:


> Is that a flap on a chest pocket? I do like the ps on the middle fellow. I wish students still wore pocket squares to class.


I know this will get me shouted out of here, but that's not totally realistic. Are you sure it isn't a business seminar? I've seen pictures as far back as the '20s and '30s where college students are casually dressed in class.

I'll explain: I _could_ put forth a lot of effort to choose a proper shirt, tie, jacket, trousers, and shoes in the morning. Then again, I could also just wear casual clothes and be a lot more comfortable. Yes, I realise there's a such thing as A/C and lightweight fabrics. But considering the tradeoffs, I'd rather get an extra 45 minutes of sleep (after studying all night) instead of dressing to the nines for roughly 3 hours of class every day.

I'll be told that's no excuse, I'm a slob, the reason America's youth is declining is because of people like you, etc. but I stand by my convictions and think you don't have to always wear a coat and tie (or pocket square) to be well-dressed or for every situation.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I see your point, Jovan -- all of life shouldn't revolve around the clothes; wear what's appropriate to the occasion, etc. -- and I agree. But I take issue with the assumption that dressing "up" (trad or not) is uncomfortable, and hard work. This has been the keystone of the argument for casual everything: It's more "relaxed". It's "no big deal". It's "unpretentious". 

I've always thought that "trad" was all about looking sharp YET relaxed, connoting no great effort whatsoever. 

As long as we continue to characterize our preferred attire as highly effortful and difficult, we play into the hands of those who would have us wear tank tops and flip flops pretty much everywhere except special occasions.


----------



## Jovan

Good point. I guess I shouldn't say it's hard, it isn't for me, but considering the tradeoffs I'd rather just wear a clean shirt and khakis or jeans. No sense worrying about pressing trousers, shirts, and jackets during the week (and even "trads" have to do that) since I wouldn't dare come in with weeks of creases built up around the elbows, knees, and crotch. Yes, good clothes shouldn't be uncomfortable, yet we cannot deny that going jacket-less and tie-less is more comfortable than with. AT THE SAME TIME, I do not condone going into class in the same clothes you slept in.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I've had plenty of difficulty finding the right sizes, but once I've got them, it couldn't be easier to throw on an OCBD and khakis (my basic sauce almost every day). Jackets optional.

Students ought to be able to get away with a lot -- not sure about flip flops, although they're ubiquitous now -- but somewhere we must draw a line in the workplace. 

Gawd, people look awful in the workplace these days


----------



## Ralph Kinney Bennett

*Always Comfortable, Always Practical*

Have to agree with Joe Beamish, people do look gawd awful in the workplace, and in restaurants for that matter and in ... Well, you get it.

I'm a volunteer fireman in our little town and have been kidded from time to time for answering an alarm "dressed like a professor" etc. But I feel competely at home in my clothes. I have one old natural shouldered Harris Tweed that is just like a good old friend waiting for me when I come back to the station and change out of bunker gear.

I mention this to emphasize the point that traditional clothing _is_ comfortable and practical. I'm seldom without one of my tweed sportcoats (over khakis and OCBD), or a tropical weight sportcoat or blazer in summer. They are comfortable, add a bit of elan and -- thanks to that wonderful piece of technology, the pocket -- are handy and unobtrusive containers for glasses, pens, odd notes etc. (I don't own a cell phone or iPod, but they would fit, too.)

My clothes are not "classic" to me. They are just basic good clothes that impart a feeling of well being, that age well and make me feel completely comfortable wherever I am.


----------



## rsmeyer

Ralph Kinney Bennett said:


> Have to agree with Joe Beamish, people do look gawd awful in the workplace, and in restaurants for that matter and in ... Well, you get it.
> 
> I'm a volunteer fireman in our little town and have been kidded from time to time for answering an alarm "dressed like a professor" etc. But I feel competely at home in my clothes. I have one old natural shouldered Harris Tweed that is just like a good old friend waiting for me when I come back to the station and change out of bunker gear.
> 
> I mention this to emphasize the point that traditional clothing _is_ comfortable and practical. I'm seldom without one of my tweed sportcoats (over khakis and OCBD), or a tropical weight sportcoat or blazer in summer. They are comfortable, add a bit of elan and -- thanks to that wonderful piece of technology, the pocket -- are handy and unobtrusive containers for glasses, pens, odd notes etc. (I don't own a cell phone or iPod, but they would fit, too.)
> 
> My clothes are not "classic" to me. They are just basic good clothes that impart a feeling of well being, that age well and make me feel completely comfortable wherever I am.


I like this.


----------



## Cowtown

Well said Mr. Bennett.


----------



## AldenPyle

This one I like especially.


Ken88 said:


>


----------



## AldenPyle

from https://www.mister8.com


----------



## Beresford

AldenPyle said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Potter Stewart in 1958


Potter Stewart was very impressive in person. I was blown away when he came to speak at our con law class at law school. Very smart. Very charismatic. His manner of speech really reminded me of the actor, William Holden.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Mr. Potter Stewart lacked a pocket square in these pictures. How impressive could he be? Maybe 1958 was a bad year for that sort of thing.


----------



## rsmeyer

Beresford said:


> Potter Stewart was very impressive in person. I was blown away when he came to speak at our con law class at law school. Very smart. Very charismatic. His manner of speech really reminded me of the actor, William Holden.


He was a member of my D.C. club; his widow still is.


----------



## Patrick06790

My late cousin John, mid-Sixties. The bird's name was Dempsey.


----------



## Jovan

Really dig the pictures of Robert Culp and Bill Cosby.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Mike and Elaine*


----------



## AldenPyle

Beresford said:


> Potter Stewart was very impressive in person. I was blown away when he came to speak at our con law class at law school. Very smart. Very charismatic. His manner of speech really reminded me of the actor, William Holden.


Interesting, since Holden grew up in Los Angeles, though I guess Southern California was pretty much the Midwest in those days. Here is a still from Sabrina which Holden shows the Trad silhouette to great advantage. Couldn't do any better than a screen capture


----------



## AldenPyle

*Some More Old Reliables*

Paul Newman in Israel








The Graduate


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ cream socks + pennies


----------



## AldenPyle

Hey Joe, Good news. Updike lives.


----------



## Joe Beamish

That really makes my day. Really.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Jacob Lawrence*


----------



## gman-17

AldenPyle said:


>


Fantastic Pictures.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

I saw a herringbone suite at the RL store last season I beleive.

It didn't look as good as that!!

I've seen many a herringbone Harris Tweed jacket but never the whole suit!!


----------



## CMDC

This is awesome. I saw a show of his Great Migration series last year at the Philipps Collection in DC. Stunning.


----------



## CMC

Nice catch, Alden. Never heard of him; however did you find him?


----------



## AldenPyle

CMDC said:


> This is awesome. I saw a show of his Great Migration series last year at the Philipps Collection in DC. Stunning.





CMC said:


> Nice catch, Alden. Never heard of him; however did you find him?


I saw a show in April at the Philipps on a turn of the century American art movement. I really liked one of the artists but could not remember his name, the name of the show or the name of the movement. Googling to find it, I came across Lawrence's name. I thought he might have been about the right age to be in Life during the natural shoulder era, so I checked and there were some good pictures. Not that easy to find natural shoulder traditionalist pictures of important artists (Warhol, maybe, excepted). I'm not sure why.

[FWIW, the show was on "The Eight" and the artist was John French Sloan.]


----------



## AldenPyle

*Edward Hopper*

Hard, but not impossible








[Cornell actually went to Phillips Academy, but never left the house, so I'm not sure there are preppy pictures to be had.]


----------



## CMDC

A bit on Jacob Lawrence:


----------



## AldenPyle

*Richard Diebenkorn*

I've posted this before but seems appropriate:


----------



## Jovan

Bottom button only... interesting. Too bad none of these men wore a pocket square. How could they ever? It's like going outside without underwear!


----------



## Joe Beamish

Ah, Jovan. You are speaking my language. 

Look at these men. There's no nonsense about them. They're able to wear what people today call "dressy" clothes without looking foppish or self involved. These were men of action who (esp. the recently posted artists, quite literally) got their hands dirty. 

They looked relaxed but sharp. Pocket square optional.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Joe Beamish said:


> They looked relaxed but sharp. Pocket square optional.


Exceptionally so for "artists!!"

Always one of my favorites, I saw the Hopper exhibit in DC a few years back.

Art is serious business. The tattooed purple hair crowd have given it a bad rap!!


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> Bottom button only... interesting. Too bad none of these men wore a pocket square. How could they ever? It's like going outside without underwear!





Joe Beamish said:


> Ah, Jovan. You are speaking my language.
> 
> Look at these men. There's no nonsense about them. They're able to wear what people today call "dressy" clothes without looking foppish or self involved. These were men of action who (esp. the recently posted artists, quite literally) got their hands dirty.
> 
> They looked relaxed but sharp. Pocket square optional.


OTOH, look at the very stylish Ellsworth Bunker, who is always photographed with square whether at picnic or in a free-fire zone. In some times and places people were brought up to view the tie and the square as a standard of good dress. And the poets studied rules of verse and so on, but I think there is something vaguely admirable about it.

Personally, I think the style to cost&effort ratio of putting a square-folded white handkerchief in your pocket is so high, it seems a shame not to.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Notice that you specified a square-folded white handkerchief. Why? Because it's the no-nonsense version of the pocket square. 

Anyway, it's not just about pocket squares. The pix you post of high achieving, solid trad dressers tend to show a non-foppish look that is at odds with most of today's enthusiasts as represented in this forum. To me the difference is worth remarking upon because it represents...something or other. 

Prosody rocks, by the way. Even more than Lou Reed....


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Notice that you specified a square-folded white handkerchief. Why? Because it's the no-nonsense version of the pocket square.


True. I find the difficulty level rises so rapidly with silk or patterns that its not worth it. Not really me, either.



Joe Beamish said:


> Anyway, it's not just about pocket squares. The pix you post of high achieving, solid trad dressers tend to show a non-foppish look that is at odds with most of today's enthusiasts as represented in this forum. To me the difference is worth remarking upon because it represents...something or other.


Really? I wish there were more sort of elaborate, dandyish looks going on. Admittedly, I can't pull that sort of thing off, but in context and if you have the personality for it, it looks great.

I guess that's the thing though. Its important, really more important than physical fit even, that your clothes fit your personality and attitudes and activities. Valuable as the internet is, that is something that really cant be seen on a screen. I guess usually when I see someone expressing their style on the internet, I assume that it matches their real world. Other people seem to have very sensitive BS detectors, which does not seem like a lot of fun.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> Prosody rocks, by the way. Even more than Lou Reed....


You win. Prosody is a) an alternative band so hip I can't even find it on Google; b) a new Internet 2.5 music streaming site which can't be accessed outside the US; c) a linguistic term mean the communication that occurs through the rhythm and pattern of speech.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## WouldaShoulda

The father of the bride is my grandfather, 1956...


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Jovan

The Green Hornet? Nicely done!

If I had some screengrabs from the Batman series, I'd post them. Adam West as Bruce Wayne had some nice outfits here and there.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> The Green Hornet? Nicely done!
> 
> If I had some screengrabs from the Batman series, I'd post them. Adam West as Bruce Wayne had some nice outfits here and there.


Eartha Kitt or Julie Newmar?


----------



## stfu

I really admire Hopper paintings, and I admire his look too. As always, good stuff, AP.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> Eartha Kitt or Julie Newmar?


How about a WouldaShoulda sandwich with both??


----------



## Jovan

AldenPyle said:


> Eartha Kitt or Julie Newmar?


I really don't know, but I can say without a doubt that Frank Gorshin's Riddler was definitely better than John Astin's.


WouldaShoulda said:


> How about a WouldaShoulda sandwich with both??


Please no. I don't want to explain how the meat slicer got that way and the bread is so soggy!


----------



## Joe Beamish

AP -- I don't understand either of your replies, except maybe your comment (a dig, I guess) that some people wear extra sensitive BS detectors, which isn't tons of fun.

I guess we'll call it day, then. I was really only commenting on the...eh, never mind

Take care


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> AP -- I don't understand either of your replies, except maybe your comment (a dig, I guess) that some people wear extra sensitive BS detectors, which isn't tons of fun.


I wasn't taking a dig at anybody. I still learn a lot from this forum, especially your posts. I just think keeping a positive and open-minded attitude is the best learning strategy. Also, I really didnt understand your reference to prosody, a word I had never heard before.



Joe Beamish said:


> Take care


 Likewise


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Oh. I misinterpreted your posts. Sorry.


----------



## Bermuda

what woody allen movie is shown with ed norton in a plaid jacket?


----------



## AldenPyle

Bermuda said:


> what woody allen movie is shown with ed norton in a plaid jacket?


Just IMDB it.


----------



## jeph

Bermuda said:


> what woody allen movie is shown with ed norton in a plaid jacket?


Everyone Says I Love You?

Woody Allen movie from 96 with Ed Norton wearing sport coats.


----------



## Harris

Cyrus Vance, among others. I suppose we can assume that's a Chipp suit he's wearing. With what appears to be the Brooks #1. McNamara's suit shoulders appear to be slightly roped. Compare/contrast with Vance's suit--soft, natural, and rounded shoulder.



edit: If someone can "upload" (correct term?) the photo, I'd be much obliged.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

The Washington Post Style section features an article in memoriam of Robert Novak. The picture included, from 1958, shows Novak in a soft-shouldered 3/2 suit.


----------



## CMDC




----------



## Cowtown

Harris said:


> Cyrus Vance, among others. I suppose we can assume that's a Chipp suit he's wearing. With what appears to be the Brooks #1. McNamara's suit shoulders appear to be slightly roped. Compare/contrast with Vance's suit--soft, natural, and rounded shoulder.
> 
> edit: If someone can "upload" (correct term?) the photo, I'd be much obliged.


That is a great picture. Love the Chipp suit on Vance. I tried to upload it, but I don't know how to shrink the picture.


----------



## rsmeyer

Cowtown said:


> That is a great picture. Love the Chipp suit on Vance. I tried to upload it, but I don't know how to shrink the picture.


Vance wore Chipp exclusively.He was a big guy.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Bill Murray as he appeared in his cameo role in _The Darjeeling Limited_. He shows up at the start of the movie, chasing a train, but never catches it. I thought the proportions of his suit and hat were a great evocation of the 1960s.

https://img26.imageshack.us/i/darjeeling14.jpg/

Although I am a huge Wes Anderson fan, I found this movie to be his weakest and most forgettable, although the photography & locations are beautiful.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Thanks CMDC.

DD,

I agree entirely with you about Darjeeling Ltd. I never finished it as I fell asleep.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Some dude (posted on Flickr) wearing Cape Cod bit loafers, sockless. I post it here because I'm sure some of you will find it a challenge to identify:
1. the type of vintage aircraft,
2. the type of parachute,
3. the type of flight suit.

https://img255.imageshack.us/i/copyof2343912072dc7859e.jpg/


----------



## Bermuda

*Walter Cronkite (hopefully nobody has posted his photos)*

Walter Cronkite could have been the trad grandfather of America


----------



## KennethB

I wish more of the photos were full length - so we could see the pants and shoes.


----------



## AldenPyle

*One more Proxmire*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Must get lemon yellow tie*


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> I really don't know, but I can say without a doubt that Frank Gorshin's Riddler was definitely better than John Astin's.











You definitely wouldn't want darts on this suit.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> You definitely wouldn't want darts on this suit.


Too bad Lesko doesn't take your advice!!

He dresses this way ALL THE TIME!! Even to the Supermarket!!


----------



## gman-17

AldenPyle said:


>


That is a super pic.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Totally!


----------



## AldenPyle

*Trad as Folk*

Smothers Brothers
















Limeliters


----------



## AldenPyle

*Trad as Folk cont.*

Whiskeyhill Singers


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Kingston Trio wore khakis*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Harry Belafonte*


----------



## Tucker

From today's post on The Ivy League Look...


----------



## C. Sharp

Tucker,

Great find. Explains those Life photos we have been seeing. Nice to have it in context.


----------



## Jovan

Great picture of Belafonte. The pick stitching on that coat is beautiful. I'm also glad you're providing so many non-WASPy examples in this thread.


----------



## stfu

gman-17 said:


> That is a super pic.


Is it wrong to wish I had Steve McQueens hair?


----------



## rsmeyer

Albert said:


> The good old times...
> 
> What I would give to live in the US in the 50s...


i did (born in '44 ) - these were great times. IMHO, the USA was at it's zenith from 1945-65.


----------



## Joe Beamish

What's your favorite characteristic of McQueen's hair? The blondeness? The thickness? The waviness?

I'm sure the answer is "all of the above" -- but for me it's the waviness. (My own hair is as straight as fiberglass.)


----------



## AldenPyle

Tucker said:


> From today's post on The Ivy League Look...


This article is quoted in the Esquire History of Men's Fashion and I have been wanting to read it for a long time. Thanks for the tip.

I think there are two interesting things. The first is how they emphasize this is a national style by 1954. All of the pictures in the main article are of guys from the South or West. I guess the 1950's were a time in which many pre-war regional idiosyncrasies were being taken countrywide through the mass media. Its interesting to see that process playing out here.

In terms of business suits, at least, this style had been established as a Fashion trend, if perhaps a regional one, several years earlier. This ad was in the Cornell Daily Sun as early as November of 1951








with Browning King being at that time a NY area chain.

The second interesting thing was how slim the pants were even in the early 1950's, especially on the Hollywood press agent guy.


----------



## AldenPyle

stfu said:


> Is it wrong to wish I had Steve McQueens hair?


These days I wish I had just about anyone's hair.


----------



## Jovan

Wonderful, wonderful! Their show was a milestone.


AldenPyle said:


> Smothers Brothers


----------



## rsmeyer

AldenPyle said:


>


"Scotch and Soda"-great Trad song.


----------



## gman-17

stfu said:


> Is it wrong to wish I had Steve McQueens hair?


I think so long as you don't go to extreme measures to get it--like exhume his body-- you're ok!:icon_smile_big:


----------



## Joe Beamish

McQueen, James Dean, JFK, RFK, and Clint Eastwood are my hair gods.


----------



## rsmeyer

Joe Beamish said:


> McQueen, James Dean, JFK, RFK, and Clint Eastwood are my hair gods.


Telly Savalas and Yul Brynner.


----------



## Bermuda

*Harvard professor*

I believe this is a current photo of a professor taken on the Harvard campus, then changed to black and white


----------



## Reddington

An article and some nice pictures of Steve McQueen at WSJ.com. 
https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204731804574387134038144854.html


----------



## Mannix

Reddington said:


> An article and some nice pictures of Steve McQueen at WSJ.com.
> https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204731804574387134038144854.html


I was quoted in that article. Thanks Ray...:icon_smile_big:


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> Wonderful, wonderful! Their show was a milestone.


Their act got a little cheesy toward the end, but they definitely had a lot of integrity.



Reddington said:


> An article and some nice pictures of Steve McQueen at WSJ.com.
> https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204731804574387134038144854.html


Nifty. Thanks for the link. (Though I think a tweed 3/2 sack and love beads probably falls into "Do Not Try This at Home" territory.)


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Reddington said:


>


Always wear shades when "staring into the sun!!"


----------



## gman-17

rsmeyer said:


> Telly Savalas and Yul Brynner.


Unfortunately these are more likely guides to the future . . .


----------



## stfu

AldenPyle said:


> (Though I think a tweed 3/2 sack and love beads probably falls into "Do Not Try This at Home" territory.)


I agree. I would definitely place Steve McQueen in the "didn't ALWAYS look perfect" category. He probably goes in the "ALWAYS cool" category though.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Hotchkiss 1954*

Hundreds of Photos of Hotchkiss School in 1954. 
https://images.google.com/images?im...=hotchkiss++source:life&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&start=0
















Notice Ribbon Belt on this one


----------



## AldenPyle

*Jim Hutton*


----------



## Bermuda

*George Gershwin*

photo of the musical genius from the Princeton website


----------



## The Rake

Doctor Damage said:


> Some photos of GHWB, from school and earlier political days (pre-Vice President). In the group shot, GHWB is just to the left of the clock.


Love that photo. Especially since my father is in it, too.


----------



## Pentheos

The Rake said:


> Love that photo. Especially since my father is in it, too.


Can I have your autograph?


----------



## AldenPyle

*NY Artsy-Fartsy Edition*

Lionel Trilling








Alfred Barr
















Leonard Bernstein working w/ a lyricist in a grey flannel suit.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

With ever so slight variations I would love to have a tweed suit made. Given the look of the tweed's weight it might be a Winter only suit but I still love it.:icon_smile:



gman-17 said:


> Fantastic Pictures.


----------



## Bermuda

*Hoosiers*

This is probably the best basketball movie ever made. Hoosiers is about Indiana basketball circa 1951, based on a true story


----------



## Joe Beamish

That sweater vest is hateful


----------



## P Hudson

Joe Beamish said:


> That sweater vest is hateful


Who does it hate?


----------



## HL Poling and Sons

That lyricist, of course, is Stephen Sondheim.

Leonard Bernstein working w/ a lyricist in a grey flannel suit.














[/QUOTE]


----------



## Joe Beamish

In the sense of deserving hatred, of course -- like detestable. Not in the sense of the sweater itself feeling hatred. Although self-hatred would be appropriate in this case. Only my opinion.



P Hudson said:


> Who does it hate?


----------



## KennethB

AldenPyle said:


> Lionel Trilling


His essay on Kipling caused me to major in English Lit.


----------



## Bermuda

*golf in a tie*










Walter Hagen....playing golf in a long sleeve button up and tie...unreal


----------



## Joe Beamish

Those golf gents must've been dreadfully uncomfortable. Just to look good! That's the price of extreme dandyism.


----------



## AldenPyle

KennethB said:


> His essay on Kipling caused me to major in English Lit.


Any regrets?



HL Poling and Sons said:


> That lyricist, of course, is Stephen Sondheim.
> 
> Leonard Bernstein working w/ a lyricist in a grey flannel suit.


Indeed. Jerome Robbins in foreground. Looked like they were having fun. I hope they got something accomplished.


----------



## KennethB

AldenPyle said:


> Any regrets?


None. Although I earn my living in a technical field, my undergraduate liberal arts education has served me well.


----------



## Drew Bernard

There's a significant difference between "American Trad men" and some of the recent pictures shown of men from that certain era (wearing decidedly non-Ivy clothing). Can we get this back on track?


----------



## Jovan

But would you balk if someone posted a picture of Cary Grant wearing a sack coat, which he often wore with pleated trousers and a point collar? All of these men seem to embody the spirit of it in some way, be it the way they wear their clothes or otherwise.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## PorterSq

The Rake said:


> Love that photo. Especially since my father is in it, too.


Cool. Out of curiosity, which one is your dad? If what they say about that organization is true, I suspect he went on to an interesting and fulfilling life. Are you comfortable saying?


----------



## Herrsuit

The guy on the left, Blair Torrey, was my English teacher (many years after this picture was taken).


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

*elliot gould 1983*


----------



## Joe Beamish

Henry Fonda. I don't think I've seen anyone else look so friendly and so mean at the same time. 

He would have been well-dressed in these photos, tsk, if only he had considered a pocket square.


----------



## gman-17

I don't recall seeing any pics of this man. If he is not a modern day trad, who is?


----------



## AldenPyle

*Easy Rider Trad*

Captain America








Billy


----------



## stfu

Not the most photogenic, but watching his interview this am in a 3/2 reminded me how much material he offers, and how consistent he has been for 40(!) years. (Photos from '69 to current)


----------



## AldenPyle

stfu said:


> Not the most photogenic, but watching his interview this am in a 3/2 reminded me how much material he offers, and how consistent he has been for 40(!) years. (Photos from '69 to current)


Great pics. Do you suppose there is an American Trad/Men jinx?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I suspect so, given the events of this past evening. I fear that, with this recently gained knowledge of a Trad jinx in play, I shall never smile again! (heavy sigh!)


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Jovan

Is that a marijuana leaf?


----------



## BrendanOC

Jovan said:


> Is that a marijuana leaf?


If I am not mistaken, that is the logo for the clothing company "Boast" . . . they make gear for racquet sports . . . I wonder if the name of the company is a nod to squash?


----------



## AldenPyle

The Updike picture is from a collection of his writings on buildings in Architectural Digest. Worth readinghttps://www.architecturaldigest.com/homes/features/2009/03/john_updike
Here is another








nice roll


----------



## 127.72 MHz

*Very* nice roll. Understated and timelessly classic. The beauty of this look, with few exceptions, is that the images could be from 1965, 75, 95, 2005, or 2025.

If I only could count on being as put together as he is when I reach that age.


----------



## Jovan

At his age, I will never trade in my look for velcro sneakers and a bucket hat.

This fella knew how to dress in retirement.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Duponts of Delaware, 1958*


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> At his age, I will never trade in my look for velcro sneakers and a bucket hat.
> 
> This fella knew how to dress in retirement.


who is this guy?


----------



## Jovan

Graham Crowden of "Waiting for God" -- a comedy on BBC that ran in the early '90s. It centred around him and his irritable wife living in a retirement community.


----------



## a4audi08

probably my favorite thread

princeton era rumsfeld


----------



## AldenPyle

a4audi08 said:


> probably my favorite thread
> 
> princeton era rumsfeld


 Great find!


----------



## AldenPyle

*Just Some Guy*

From a story about something called Betty Talmadge's hams. 1953


----------



## HL Poling and Sons

^
Funny, that's exactly the tie of my collegiate club...


----------



## Bermuda

*More Rumsfeld at Princeton*

Rumsfeld and his pals:









Apparently he was on the Princeton wrestling team but I can't get the picture to appear


----------



## Bermuda

*Tucker Carlson*

Young american trad (thanks to the WASP101 blog)


----------



## AldenPyle

HL Poling and Sons said:


> ^
> Funny, that's exactly the tie of my collegiate club...


Probably that is the son of Georgia Sen. Herman Talmadge.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Bermuda said:


> Young american trad (thanks to the WASP101 blog)


That guy looks like Tucker Carlson.


----------



## Bermuda

Yes it is Tucker


----------



## AldenPyle

*From the Watergate Hearing; John Dean plus Madras Jacket*


----------



## TDI GUY

*More John Dean*

That wasn't the only time John Dean appeared during the hearings in a 3/2 sack.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Bermuda said:


> Yes it is Tucker


I just noticed that you posted "Tucker Carlson" above the photo. If his name was already above the photo when I said it looked like Carlson, then I'm embarrassed right now.


----------



## Bermuda

*Charles Osgood*

The man from "The Osgood File" which is on most talk radio stations...and CBS Sunday Morning......usually sports a bow tie


----------



## Cardinals5

*Raymond Chandler*


----------



## Cardinals5

*Vacationing Trad Style from Life Magazine*


----------



## Jovan

Great pictures and, of course, I dig the hairstyles.

Note the wider legs on the shorts and trousers. This is definitely a more relaxed-fit youth style than shown in _Take Ivy_.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Yes, and these photos also display the enormous sharpening power, to one's overall look, of well-kept creases. 

Also: That middle bloke's luminous white shirt fits him very much like the contemporary BB OCBD slim-fit model fits people today.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Robert Trent Jones, Golf Course Designer*


----------



## Joe Beamish

Consider a pocket square


----------



## Jovan

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Yes, and these photos also display the enormous sharpening power, to one's overall look, of well-kept creases.
> 
> Also: That middle bloke's luminous white shirt fits him very much like the contemporary BB OCBD slim-fit model fits people today.


Haven't some people said that old BBs are actually _less_ baggy than the ones made today? Especially evident with pictures of Fred Astaire -- he was a small guy and his shirts looked slightly full but not tent like.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Grandfather c1960


----------



## Joe Beamish

I think the guy's white shirt fits him perfectly -- I'm jealous because my own BB whites have shrunken in the sleeves much more than my other colors -- even though I never put them in a dryer. Otherwise they're perfect (lesson learned).

But his shirt is neither euro-slim nor security guard baggy anywhere, including in the sleeves.


----------



## Jovan

I'm actually inclined to agree with you. That is a nice fit.


----------



## Bermuda

*Bohemian Grove*

Photo from a secret club in Caifornia called Bohemian Grove....notice Reagan and Nixon

No doubt most of the men here are wearing traditional American clothing


----------



## Bermuda

*The Beltway Boys*

There is a political show on FOX News called The Beltway Boys that features Fred Barnes (left with tortoise shell glasses) and Mort Kondracke. I thought they always dressed tradly

Fred and Mort also usually wear repp ties like the ones shown above


----------



## Srynerson

AldenPyle said:


>


I was at first thinking that he was wearing a bespoke jacket with the breast pocket on the right, but then I noticed the gentleman behind him had the same feature on his jacket, which suggests the image has been reversed.


----------



## gman-17

Bermuda said:


> There is a political show on FOX News called The Beltway Boys that features Fred Barnes (left with tortoise shell glasses) and Mort Kondracke. I thought they always dressed tradly
> 
> Fred and Mort also usually wear repp ties like the ones shown above


They do, but Mort sometimes has trouble matching his shirts and ties.:crazy:


----------



## gman-17

Did I miss something or have we forgotten this man? Author Louis Achincloss.


----------



## raincoat

Cheever:



















John P. Marquand:










Richard Yates:










E.B. White:


----------



## Cardinals5

Jovan said:


> Haven't some people said that old BBs are actually _less_ baggy than the ones made today? Especially evident with pictures of Fred Astaire -- he was a small guy and his shirts looked slightly full but not tent like.


This has been my experience. I'm not old enough to have wore BB ocbds prior to the 1990s, but some vintage ones (older tags) I've found at thrifts are markedly slimmer and not tent-like - the sleeves are quite a bit slimmer as well. I assume that most of the complaints about BBs "tent-like" fit stems from OCBDs manufactured in the 1980s-1990s. That said, my evidence is anecdotal at best.


----------



## rsmeyer

Auchincloss, Cheever, Marquand-the real deal.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

I wonder if Fred Astaire had his BB shirts custom made. My guess would be that he did so.

To the list of trad authors, we must add the late, great Joseph Mitchell:


----------



## Bermuda

*Bobby, Mickey*

Bobby Kennedy in a sack suit. Mickey Mantle whom I've met before he died


----------



## gman-17

Bermuda said:


> Bobby Kennedy in a sack suit. Mickey Mantle whom I've met before he died


Wow! Life long Yankee fan what a pic. The Yankee uniform is very Trad.

No name on back.


----------



## Bermuda

The uniform was also 100% wool. Here is another one of him and Kennedy:



Here he is with Billy Martin:


----------



## AldenPyle

raincoat said:


> Cheever:
> 
> John P. Marquand:


I like all of Gman-17 and raincoat's author pics, but this especially. I have never heard of Joseph Mitchell, PJCinNova, but I must admit I am intrigued.


----------



## AldenPyle

In tribute to Bermuda's pundit pics, here are some pundits from 1965
Marquis Childs
















Walter Lippmann
















Joe Alsop


----------



## PJC in NoVa

AldenPyle said:


> I have never heard of Joseph Mitchell, PJCinNova, but I must admit I am intrigued.


I could almost x-post on the "Trad film" thread b/c Stanley Tucci wrote, directed, and starred as Mitchell a few years back in a film about how JM came to write his book _Joe Gould's Secret:_

_https://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi849936665/_

Though he followed a career as a journalist and (famously exiguous) author in NYC, "writer's writer" Mitchell was a courtly North Carolinian by birth and upbringing. He probably shopped a lot at old-school Brooks and Press.

If you do take him up, I would recommend starting with the essay "The Old House at Home" from _Up in the Old Hotel_. It deals with McSorley's Old Ale House, which boasts of being "New York City's oldest continuously operated saloon." That's the essay I started with, at any rate, and it got me hooked.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Bermuda said:


> Here he is with Billy Martin:


What do you suppose Martin mixed with that Coke??


----------



## Jovan

Jack Daniels of course!


----------



## gman-17

WouldaShoulda said:


> What do you suppose Martin mixed with that Coke??


I was thinking the same thing--may have been the only time Billy was photographed with a Coke in his hand. I wish he had enjoyed more of those and less from the other bottle. Great competitor.


----------



## Bermuda

Martin probably fell off the back of the boat after the photo was taken! It was a shame that he passed at only 61


----------



## rsmeyer

AldenPyle said:


> In tribute to Bermuda's pundit pics, here are some pundits from 1965
> Marquis Childs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walter Lippmann
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Alsop


Especially like the Alsop-got his duds at Anderson and Sheppard.


----------



## Bermuda

*The Sultan of Swat and Yogi*

Since the Yankees will probably win the World Series tonight or this week....my final Yankee pic....Babe Ruth looking dapper with star catcher Yogi Berra....not sure how exactly "trad" the Babe's suit is......looks like a double breasted wide lapel...I like the shoes though


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Bermuda said:


> Since the Yankees will probably win the World Series tonight or this week....my final Yankee pic....Babe Ruth looking dapper with star catcher Yogi Berra....not sure how exactly "trad" the Babe's suit is......looks like a double breasted wide lapel...I like the shoes though


Dapper? Yes, but his suit and shirt look obviously too big, and he appears gaunt. I think the pic must have been taken when "The Big Bam" (title of Leigh Montville's excellent biography) was wasting away from cancer while still only in his early 50s.

Sartorial factoid about George Herman Ruth: The trade he was taught at St. Mary's Industrial School (when Brother Matthias wasn't teaching him the "trade" of baseball, that is) was tailoring, and well into adult life he was proud of his ability to dexterously "turn" the collars of his custom-made Sulka dress shirts himself.

Dennis Lehane's recent historical novel about the 1919 Boston police strike, _The Given Day, _recruits the young Babe Ruth as a minor character who pops up as a sort of Greek chorus at various points in the action. Some of the antics that the Babe gets involved in are based on actual events in his life. His conversation with a barkeep about how to find someone who can haul a piano out of a lake is almost worth the price of the book by itself.

Here's a fun photo of well turned-out athletes from that era: Bobby Jones with Ruth's sometime golfing partner, Walter Hagen:


----------



## AldenPyle

*Robert Rheault, Commander of Green Berets in Vietnam ca. 1968*


----------



## PJC in NoVa

His head is a perfectly realized set of 90-degree angles, much like that of another great American, Johnny U.:




























At least until his career moved into its twilight phase and he grew his rectilinear brush cut out into a floppy but still neat 'n' stylin' side-part 'do:


----------



## CMDC

^As Abe Simpson said: " A haircut you could set your watch to."


----------



## CMC

Re: photo 3 of Rheault, does anyone know the tradition behind wearing crewneck sweaters so high in the front? Boyer and I discussed this, and he thought it was because there's a necktie underneath, but I could swear I see this all the time, even when the wearer doesn't have a necktie on. 

I think it has to do with sprezzy nonchalance, that the sweaters are deliberately worn this way to look like they were pulled on for warmth with little regard for what's underneath, rather than pulling them down in front and neatly framing the shirt collar.


----------



## JDC

It's often a result of poor posture rather than a deliberate look. I'm not saying this is the case with Mr. Rheault.


----------



## Bermuda

PJC in Nova: If you look back in the thread I also posted some photos of Hagen


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Bermuda said:


> Walter Hagen....playing golf in a long sleeve button up and tie...unreal


The Hage! Brilliant.

The man had real panache. Golf is hard enough without having to play it in a dress shirt and tie. Truly there were sartorial giants in the earth in those days.

PS: According to the wiki gods, his nickname is spelled "Haig," which makes no sense to me as the original famous Haig was a none-too-fondly-remembered British field marshal in WWI, not a happy-go-lucky linksman, but clubs were marketed with that spelling, so there it is.


----------



## Jovan

I really like the cut of Rheault's trousers (moleskin, corduroy?) in the third photo. Just slim enough to still be comfortable.

AFAIK, there are different crew neck sweaters with different sizes of neck openings. Some allow a tie more than others. I think he looks fine. Brownshoe wore one the same way recently and it looks very carefree, as if they indeed just happened to pull it over for a walk outside in the chilly air.


----------



## phyrpowr

PJC in NoVa said:


> I could almost x-post on the "Trad film" thread b/c Stanley Tucci wrote, directed, and starred as Mitchell a few years back in a film about how JM came to write his book _Joe Gould's Secret:_
> 
> _https://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi849936665/_
> 
> Though he followed a career as a journalist and (famously exiguous) author in NYC, "writer's writer" Mitchell was a courtly North Carolinian by birth and upbringing. He probably shopped a lot at old-school Brooks and Press.
> 
> If you do take him up, I would recommend starting with the essay "The Old House at Home" from _Up in the Old Hotel_. It deals with McSorley's Old Ale House, which boasts of being "New York City's oldest continuously operated saloon." That's the essay I started with, at any rate, and it got me hooked.


Mr. Mitchell comes from a line of gentlemen in my hometown of Fairmont, NC (pop. about 2300 & declining). I knew his brother and nephews, and of course we're related by marriage . He had the reputation of being possibly the slowest writer at the New Yorker, but the finished work was _polished. (Here at the New Yorker, _Brendan Gill)


----------



## Jovan

*Star Trek's creator - Gene Roddenberry*


----------



## Reds & Tops

I'm really wanting a shawl collar cardigan, nice and chunky...and these pictures are not helping. 

Great stuff.


----------



## Jovan

Roddenberry was notorious for his cardigans (and the flings he had outside of marriage, most notably with a certain actress who became his real wife later). I really want one myself.


----------



## Sir Cingle

^I hope you mean a cardigan and not a fling, Jovan!


----------



## Jovan

The chunky shawl cardigan, of course. I am happily taken and would never stray from her!


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


>


Cool pics.


----------



## AldenPyle

Some fashion model photos from 1960
























something a little more Drapery


----------



## Reds & Tops

^ Thanks for sharing AP. You are the heart and soul of this thread, methinks.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

phyrpowr said:


> Mr. Mitchell comes from a line of gentlemen in my hometown of Fairmont, NC (pop. about 2300 & declining). I knew his brother and nephews, and of course we're related by marriage . He had the reputation of being possibly the slowest writer at the New Yorker, but the finished work was _polished. (Here at the New Yorker, _Brendan Gill)


Yes, Mitchell was known for spending full workdays in an office at The New Yorker that contained nothing but a desk, a chair, and some writing materials, and then (almost) never producing anything. That's what I meant by him being a famously exiguous author. What he did grind out was and is marvelous, and influenced others who became more famous (hence the "writer's writer" tag).

I believe he was able to get away with his limited publishing because he enjoyed income from his farm holdings in NC; also, his wife was a photographer and I think may have made some cash.

Also in the literary vein is this pic of the great Scribner's editor Max Perkins, who discovered Fitzgerald and Hemingway and made Thomas Wolfe readable:










Wolfe, a logorrheic alcoholic, was also from NC (western part of the state rather than JM's eastern) but other than that was the anti-Mitchell. Wolfe could not stop writing (often while standing up and using the top of his icebox as a desk, since he was so tall) and delivered reams of manuscript in packing crates to Perkins, whose job it was to hold the line on length and walk point for the "less is more" aesthetic.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> Some fashion model photos from 1960


I think the rise on these pants are perfect!!

I need about six pair please!!


----------



## stfu

WouldaShoulda said:


> I think the rise on these pants are perfect!!
> 
> I need about six pair please!!


Woulda Shoulda, I was going to comment that the fit across the board on those two models was perfect, IMO, both on the trousers and jackets.


----------



## Jovan

AldenPyle said:


> Cool pics.


Indeed. By most accounts, Roddenberry could barely dress himself or comb his hair when he first started pitching Star Trek. I like the nonchalantly stashed pencil and the triangular tie pin.

The first picture shows something I've noticed about pre-1970s photos and movies. A lot of ties were too short for big men. The standard was around 50-53" rather than the 57-59" now. (Now, the thin or short guys often have too much length. It's almost as if the problem has been reversed.) In one picture of my grandfather circa the 1960s, his tie wasn't just coming out of his jacket, it was a good two inches or so ABOVE the waist button.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Very true; ties terminating well above the waist is a frequent sighting in 40's movies, for example.


----------



## AldenPyle

*William Sloane Coffin*


----------



## PeterSawatzky

AldenPyle said:


>


Corduroy sack right in front of J.Press. Wow.


----------



## Jazzer

PJC in NoVa said:


> Max Perkins:


:teacha:

He looks a little bit dopey here, doesn't he? The jacket flayed open by his hands in his pockets and the too-tight vest buttoned all the way down looks a bit uncomfortable and goofy to me.


----------



## rsmeyer

PeterSawatzky said:


> Corduroy sack right in front of J.Press. Wow.


Oh, for the days that even radical clergy wore Ivy style.


----------



## AldenPyle

*HR Haldeman*


----------



## PJC in NoVa

rsmeyer said:


> Oh, for the days that even radical clergy wore Ivy style.


The scuffed work boots worn with jacket and tie strike me as comically affected.

They scream "Look at me, I'm so 'with it' and 'of the people,' wearing my gardening shoes to promenade with these poor, downtrodden townies."

The look is in the same league with Ramsey Clark sporting a paper clip as a tie bar. In fact, the Rev. Coffin is probably doing the same thing under that quarter-zip sweater.


----------



## Bermuda

*Ed Sullivan*

A Traditional American icon who brought many talented acts into American homes


----------



## AldenPyle

*Stanford student Ed Gregson w/wife*


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Slim and trim all around. But not in a low-rise sort of way. 

Same goes for the OCBD -- clearly closer to a "slim-fit" (esp. the BB version) than to today's "traditional fit". But not in a Euro-slim sort of way.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

According to wikipedia, the blonde babe would dump Big Ed for a cat by the name of Sammy (Sammy Davis, Jr., that is) in fairly short order:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Britt

I remember her as Brando's trashy wife in _The Young Lions _(1958).

At least a good pair of khakis will never let you down.


----------



## Cowtown

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Slim and trim all around. But not in a low-rise sort of way.
> 
> Same goes for the OCBD -- clearly closer to a "slim-fit" (esp. the BB version) than to today's "traditional fit". But not in a Euro-slim sort of way.


I like that look quite a bit myself rather than the baggier fit of some of my shirts and pants.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Sammy Davis in Washington in 1964*



PJC in NoVa said:


> According to wikipedia, the blonde babe would dump Big Ed for a cat by the name of Sammy (Sammy Davis, Jr., that is) in fairly short order:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Britt
> 
> I remember her as Brando's trashy wife in _The Young Lions _(1958).
> 
> At least a good pair of khakis will never let you down.


Indeed. I myself am a fan of Sammy's early take on the natural shoulder tradition 
Partying in Georgetown 
















Paying respect


----------



## AldenPyle

*and in New York*

Driving the rolls








With May, picking up the kids, isnt that adorable. 








I don't like the look of this








Im sure its ok. They are just friends.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Sammy partying with David Brinkley, Ethel Kennedy, and Averell Harriman, no less. 

And his "friend" Lola Falana, too, right?

The pic at JFK's graveside is the somberest-looking Sammy photo I've ever seen.


----------



## Bermuda

*John Steinbeck*

One of my favorite American authors










I couldn't let my favorite thread die out!


----------



## Bermuda

Wes Anderson and friend at the Fantastic Mr. Fox premier!


----------



## MDunle3199

*Teach them while they are young*

My son turns 1 in January. I think this may be in his room shortly!


----------



## Forbes

The fellow with Wes is his brother, Eric Chase Anderson.

The other Anderson has been a major contributor to each of the films, particularly in the production design of "The Royal Tenenbaums." In the forthcoming "Fantastic Mr. Fox," Eric Chase Anderson plays the part of Kristofferson. 

Among other things, Eric Chase Anderson is responsible for the wonderful scenes on Richie Tenenbaum's walls. His 2005 graphic novella, "Chuck Dugan is AWOL," is a beautifully illustrated and fun read.


----------



## Bermuda

interesting Forbes....it appears as if Wes is wearing the exact same suit and shirt in both photos!


----------



## Beefeater

*The Heart of the Matter*


----------



## gman-17

*One word . . .*










Plastics!


----------



## Reds & Tops

Dustin's tie is fantastic


----------



## Corcovado

*Henry Miller*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Edward Brooke*


----------



## AldenPyle

*William Kunstler (and Abbie Hoffman)*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Bob Newhart*


----------



## Jovan

I love Bob Newhart _and_ cutaway quarters like that, but the fastening is too high for my taste. Perhaps if it had a third button...


----------



## Joe Beamish

And where are the foopin' pocket squares? Dang


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> I don't like the look of this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im sure its ok. They are just friends.


What's with the creepy mask??

Sammy made a re-make of "The Invisible Man??"


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> I love Bob Newhart _and_ cutaway quarters like that, but the fastening is too high for my taste. Perhaps if it had a third button...


Good eye, I had just thought that was a 3-button. What a weird jacket.


----------



## AldenPyle

PJC in NoVa said:


> Sammy partying with David Brinkley, Ethel Kennedy, and Averell Harriman, no less.
> 
> And his "friend" Lola Falana, too, right?
> 
> The pic at JFK's graveside is the somberest-looking Sammy photo I've ever seen.


Thats right. Lola Falana. I thought that since her affair with Sammy broke up the marriage with Mai Britt, there would be a certain symmetry.


----------



## Forbes

Regarding the picture of Sammy with Ethel: That's not Ethel. It might be Rose, but I'm not convinced. 

Good stuff nonetheless.


----------



## Cardinals5

AldenPyle said:


> Good eye, I had just thought that was a 3-button. What a weird jacket.


I don't have the expertise of many on this forum, but I think it's one of those two button jackets where both buttons are designed to be used - possibly there's a special name for this kind of jacket, but I don't know what it is. In either case, I don't like its cut.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Cardinals5 said:


> I don't have the expertise of many on this forum, but I think it's one of those two button jackets where both buttons are designed to be used - possibly there's a special name for this kind of jacket, but I don't know what it is. In either case, I don't like its cut.


It's called a "paddock jacket," I believe. JFK favored a version of the style, albeit with a lower overall button stance than what the "Buttondown Mind" man has on. (Newhart's jacket is odd; it looks like a 3btn cut where someone just forgot to apply the lowest button and buttonhole to the coat front.)

And that IS Ethel Kennedy in the pic w/ Sammy.


----------



## bandofoutsiders

AldenPyle said:


> Good eye, I had just thought that was a 3-button. What a weird jacket.


It's sort of a continental/Ivy hybrid. I've got a suit like that. I can't tell from the photo but I would bet that thing has itty-bitty side vents. Nice "clover-leaf" lapels too.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Bill Proxmire*


----------



## Corcovado

A lot of the pictures previously posted by others are not visible to me, so I do apologize if I end up recycling (or should that be _re-recycling_) someone else's pics. That said, there is a wealth of pictures to be found on the Google/Life Magazine online archive. Not necessarily close-ups of famous people, but a lot of good shots of university life in which sartorial details may be appreciated.

Here is a sampling of what I have looked at this morning. These are the low-res versions. Generally higher-res pictures are available at the source:









Princeton, 1949









Yale, 1964









Yale, 1964


















Princeton, 1951









Princeton, 1960
















Harvard, 1953









Princeton, 1950


----------



## Joe Beamish

I really enjoy the devil-may-care, rumpled manner in which most of these guys wear their clothes.


----------



## JDC

Joe Beamish said:


> I really enjoy the devil-may-care, rumpled manner in which most of these guys wear their clothes.


Ain't it the truth. That last photo is definitive proof I was born a half-century too late.


----------



## Corcovado

*more pics from LIFE*

The University of the South (Sewanee)










Hayride, 1940










_Members of Phi Delta Theta at the University of the South._ (1940)










_Students wearing academic gowns, required apparel for all seniors and juniors in class and chapel, at the University of the South._ (1940)

_







_
_Cheer leaders teaching incoming freshmen songs and yells at University of the South._ (1940)




Joe Beamish said:


> I really enjoy the devil-may-care, rumpled manner in which most of these guys wear their clothes.


I do like their style, but there is a conscious maintaining of tradition behind the facade of insouciance. The last picture from Sewanee is a more overt example. These days I suppose fraternities and sororities have didactic sessions on songs, chants, cheers, etc within their organizations, but it would be unheard of for such instruction for incoming freshman to be put through such drills at the instiutional level. Or at least it would be painfully square.


----------



## EastVillageTrad

*Generals*









MG Ralph J. Canine (1895 - 1969) was the first director of the United States' National Security Agency (NSA).










LTG William Eldridge Odom (June 23, 1932 - May 30, 2008) was a retired U.S. Army 3-star general, and former Director of the NSA under President Ronald Reagan, which culminated a 31 year career in military intelligence, mainly specializing in matters relating to the Soviet Union.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

I do like their style, but there is a conscious maintaining of tradition behind the facade of insouciance. The last picture from Sewanee is a more overt example. These days I suppose fraternities and sororities have didactic sessions on songs, chants, cheers, etc within their organizations, but it would be unheard of for such instruction for incoming freshman to be put through such drills at the instiutional level. Or at least it would be painfully square.

_Last edited by Corcovado; November 19th, 2009 at 13:12. _

I recall reading somewhere that the freshmen beanies and a lot of the other institutionally enforced rah-rah stuff on campuses were killed off by WWII and the GI Bill. My Dad started college on the GIB when he was in his mid-20s, back from the Pacific Theater where he had witnessed the Japanese surrender in Tokyo Bay, and married to my mother by his senior year. If some scrawny 19-year-old sophomore fresh from his momma's apron strings had tried to make Dad or any of his buddies wear a beanie or sing some goofy song about Old Succotash U., well . . . . it's not hard to imagine what would have transpired.

If you're looking at a campus photo from 1940, you're looking back into a time when only about 10 percent or so of high-school graduates in America went on to higher education. The GIB flooded campuses with guys like my Dad who were older, had been to war or at least in the military, were often married, and were generally in a hurry to get an education and get on with life. They were making up for lost time and didn't have the patience or interest to learn cheers and so on--at least that is the impression my Dad always gave me.


----------



## rl1856

PJC in NoVa said:


> I recall reading somewhere that the freshmen beanies and a lot of the other institutionally enforced rah-rah stuff on campuses were killed off by WWII and the GI Bill. My Dad started college on the GIB when he was in his mid-20s, back from the Pacific Theater where he had witnessed the Japanese surrender in Tokyo Bay, and married to my mother by his senior year. If some scrawny 19-year-old sophomore fresh from his momma's apron strings had tried to make Dad or any of his buddies wear a beanie or sing some goofy song about Old Succotash U., well . . . . it's not hard to imagine what would have transpired.
> 
> If you're looking at a campus photo from 1940, you're looking back into a time when only about 10 percent or so of high-school graduates in America went on to higher education. The GIB flooded campuses with guys like my Dad who were older, had been to war or at least in the military, were often married, and were generally in a hurry to get an education and get on with life. They were making up for lost time and didn't have the patience or interest to learn cheers and so on--at least that is the impression my Dad always gave me.




There is a lot of truth in what you have posted. My room mate's father attended Allegheny on the GIB, after having served in Korea. He was single and pledged a fraternity. The first time an upperclassman tried to Haze him, he laughed and walked away. After what he had endured, he wouldn't put up with what he perceived to be BS.

On the other hand, freshman hazing didn't entirely die out after WWII and Korea. It persisted at my alma mater until the mid 60's. Freshman were required to wear beanies and accede to the requests of upperclassman. The activities culminated in what was called "Rat Week", which took place after Freshman 1st semester mid term exams. Oddly enough it was the reintroduction of Fraternities and Sororities that ended the tradition at my school.

Best,

Ross


----------



## PJC in NoVa

rl1856 said:


> There is a lot of truth in what you have posted. My room mate's father attended Allegheny on the GIB, after having served in Korea. He was single and pledged a fraternity. The first time an upperclassman tried to Haze him, he laughed and walked away. After what he had endured, he wouldn't put up with what he perceived to be BS.
> 
> On the other hand, freshman hazing didn't entirely die out after WWII and Korea. It persisted at my alma mater until the mid 60's. Freshman were required to wear beanies and accede to the requests of upperclassman. The activities culminated in what was called "Rat Week", which took place after Freshman 1st semester mid term exams. Oddly enough it was the reintroduction of Fraternities and Sororities that ended the tradition at my school.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ross


Rat Week?

I didn't know they wore beanies at VMI.


----------



## Beefeater

*Family Ties*


----------



## Joe Beamish

Smashing olive suit, striped blue shirt, blue tie combo on Odon.


----------



## Corcovado

*more from LIFE*









F. Scott Fitzgerald with wife Zelda, 1921









Colby College, 1950 (I could look at this one all day)









Bowdoin College, 1952









ibid


----------



## Naval Gent

^ I believe that's the earliest picture I've ever seen of Camp Mocs worn in the wild, so to speak.

Scott


----------



## Corcovado

Haverford College, 1954









_American Rhodes scholar Peter Dawkins riding bicycle at Oxford Univ., 1959_


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Harvard sociologist Barrington Moore, Jr. (1913-2005):


----------



## Corcovado

*more from Bowdoin College, 1952*

I hope I'm not taking this thread too far afield by posting pics of some non-famous American men and the occasional lass.

*Old School*








If you look at the  of this one you can get a better look at the boots these gents are wearing. The band on the arm of the man on the right suggests he was of a the class of 1879, which would make him about 95 years old at the time of the photo. He would have been a young boy during the Civil War.

*Beer & cigarettes*








I love the straw boater. Those weren't really in style at the time I don't think. I wonder what degree of irony or humour went into it for that guy.  for high res version.

*Study time*


----------



## EastVillageTrad

Corcovado said:


> *Old School*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you look at the  of this one you can get a better look at the boots these gents are wearing. The band on the arm of the man on the right suggests he was of a the class of 1879, which would make him about 95 years old at the time of the photo. He would have been a young boy during the Civil War.


Wow - perhaps a student of Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, at least there during his tenure...


----------



## Corcovado

*one more from Bowdoin College*









*If it's not Scottish it's crrrap*









*The original tweed ride, Yale-Vassar bike race, 1952*











































I think it's interesting how dressed up these guys are (the ones not in costume) even when they're clearly spending a day drunk and clowning around.


----------



## Dr.Watson

Found a picture of WFB wearing a grosgrain watch band. Apologies if it has already been posted.

https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/02/27/obituaries/27buckley5-600.jpg


----------



## Corcovado

Arthur Schlesinger Jr., 1950









*Arthur Schlesinger Jr., 1999*









Phillip Roth, 1962


----------



## ButtondownMind

Corcovado said:


> F. Scott Fitzgerald with wife Zelda, 1921
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Colby College, 1950 (I could look at this one all day)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bowdoin College, 1952
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ibid











Colby College, 1950 (I could look at this one all day)

Wow, you're not kidding.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Walker Percy (1916-1990), photographed in 1982:










WP, no date:


----------



## AldenPyle

PJC in NoVa said:


> Walker Percy (1916-1990), photographed in 1982:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WP, no date:


Historical content aside, this just plain looks great.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Singer Songwriter Johnny Mercer*


----------



## AldenPyle

Sculptor Richard Hunt


----------



## PJC in NoVa

I was fortunate enough to be able to shake Mr. Percy's hand after he gave the Jefferson Lecture in the Humanities in DC in May 1989. He was dressed in AmTrad _cap-a-pied,_ IIRC.


----------



## Corcovado

see also


----------



## AldenPyle

*Bell & Howell Executive Charles Percy*


----------



## Doctor Damage

George Hamilton tacking away from the Trad Curriculum, but still looking 100% American. Those socks and shoes are perfect.


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> George Hamilton tacking away from the Trad Curriculum, but still looking 100% American. Those socks and shoes are perfect.


Looks good but wouldn't it be better to ditch the socks.


----------



## AldenPyle

Tennessee Williams and painter David Scott on Peggy Guggenheim's Balcony in 1954


----------



## AldenPyle

Archibald Macleish








Dig the dog emblematic


----------



## 35-Foxtrot

Corcovado said:


> I think it's interesting how dressed up these guys are (the ones not in costume) even when they're clearly spending a day drunk and clowning around.


I can assure you that college students will still dress up to get drunk.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

AldenPyle said:


> Looks good but wouldn't it be better to ditch the socks.


Seriously . . . I am shocked to see GH even wearing socks with that warm-weather outfit and in that sunny setting.


----------



## AldenPyle

PJC in NoVa said:


> Seriously . . . I am shocked to see GH even wearing socks with that warm-weather outfit and in that sunny setting.


Its the one thing that Trads and International Playboys agree on. No socks by the pool!


----------



## PJC in NoVa

AldenPyle said:


> Archibald Macleish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dig the dog emblematic


What a jacket! I know he's not American (the closest he came was being Governor-General of Canada) but here's one of Scottish author John Buchan in a similar check:









In Canada on official duties:


----------



## eyedoc2180

AldenPyle said:


> Some fashion model photos from 1960
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> something a little more Drapery


I notice an absence of "break" in the trousers. Was that the style, way back when?


----------



## AldenPyle

This is from an Esquire Magazine Article ca. 1962 on pants

Quoted in Esquire's Encyclopedia of 20th Century Men's Fashion

_Cuffs. _The rule here depends on several things: suit style, fabric and -when yome right down to it - preference. British-oriented tweed or a soft flannel looks better cuffed; hard-finished worsteds can take a razor-sharp crease that one may not want to break with a cuff. "Weighting" lightweight summer trousers with cuffs helps them retain their shape. Narrower bottomed trousers are more apt to go cuffless, while the true natural-shoulder traditionalist would never dream of decuffing his trousers. Leaving off cuffs lengthens the line of trousers, helps make a short man look taller. Degree of dressiness is no criterion - sport slacks can go cuffless (why have dirt catchers on the golf course or picnic grounds?) About the only general statement that can be made is that softer and heavier goods look better cuffed; whether or not you choose that more advanced look of cufflessness for your smooth-finished fabrics depends, of course, upon your own taste.
_Pleats_ Trouser fronts are either plain-fronted or single- or double-pleated; the double-pleat is, for the most part, limited to tradition preserving custom tailors. While the single-pleat is still, by far, the most popular, the trimmer look of pleatless trousers is continually gaining favor and is _de rigueur_ for the younger man and the natural shoulder enthusiast. Sport slacks, especially are going the way of no pleats (though the less-confining pleated models are preferred by many active sportsmen: e.g. golfers). While pleats - contrary to popular conceptions- will not hide a "pot," they will give a heavier-set man more room through the front. The choice, therefore, depends on comfort and the "look" a man wishes to achieve. 
_ Rise_. The rise of a man's trousers is that space from the crotch seam to the top of the waistband. In the past few years, slacks with a dungaree-type low rise, usually featuring an extension waist band and side tabs, have found enthusiastic popularity, especially with younger men. These trousers, naturally, fit lower at the waistline, resting on the hips. A slim man who likes the casual effect of such sport slacks, can wear them; a heavier man should avoid a low-rise trouser since a stomach bulging over the top of one's trousers looks most unflattering.
_Taper. _With the whittling down of clothing to trimmer proportions, all trousers have begun to be more emphatically tapered (decreased gradually in width from top to bottom): from a 23"-19" knee-to-bottom ratio of not too many seasons ago, the average pair of trousers today measures 21"-18". Some sport slacks and young men's suit trousers measure 17" - and even narrower - at the bottom. _Esquire_ feels that the extreme taper of pipestem trousers deserve no more place in the wardrobe of the well dressed man than the baggy look of yesteryear. Trousers must also be proportioned to a man's build - more taper will help a shorter man look taller but will only exaggerate the height of a tall, slim man. 
_Length. _Proper length for trousers follows an absolute rule: they should just touch the tops of the shoe - with only the barest suggestion of a break if at all. (There should certainly be no break at all at the time of the fitting, since trousers will inevitably sag a bit.) The very-high fashiontrend of ankle length trousers is a skimpy look that goes along with tight pants - the tight pants that are worn by many young men, but which are no more advisable for the well dressed man than the too-long trousers that slop over the shoes (April, 1962, pp. 94-95).


----------



## AldenPyle

Security guard William Scranton and family


----------



## Doctor Damage

eyedoc2180 said:


> I notice an absence of "break" in the trousers. Was that the style, way back when?


Pants were slim. No break does not work with baggy Bills.


----------



## Doctor Damage

AldenPyle said:


> Security guard William Scranton and family


Security guard? Umm, I think they mean Governor William Scranton. That man probably never did a 12-hour minimum-wage night shift in his life.


----------



## Jovan

He was making a reference to the "security guard look" talked about here: Navy blazer, button down shirt, grey trousers.


----------



## rsmeyer

Jovan said:


> He was making a reference to the "security guard look" talked about here: Navy blazer, button down shirt, grey trousers.


Damn nice looking family!


----------



## AldenPyle

*More Scranton*









LIFE was pretty strongly pushing Scranton's 1964 Presidential primary campaign and there are many pictures of him (and his family).


----------



## eagle2250

AldenPyle said:


> Security guard William Scranton and family





rsmeyer said:


> Damn nice looking family!


LOL. A perfect shot, if only the Governor had not buttoned that second button on his blazer!


----------



## PJC in NoVa

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. A perfect shot, if only the Governor had not buttoned that second button on his blazer!


He looks awkward in that pose, and the lapel buckling he has going on isn't particularly sightly.

Nice loafers, though.


----------



## eyedoc2180

AldenPyle said:


> This is from an Esquire Magazine Article ca. 1962 on pants
> 
> Quoted in Esquire's Encyclopedia of 20th Century Men's Fashion
> _Length. _Proper length for trousers follows an absolute rule: they should just touch the tops of the shoe - with only the barest suggestion of a break if at all. (There should certainly be no break at all at the time of the fitting, since trousers will inevitably sag a bit.) The very-high fashiontrend of ankle length trousers is a skimpy look that goes along with tight pants - the tight pants that are worn by many young men, but which are no more advisable for the well dressed man than the too-long trousers that slop over the shoes (April, 1962, pp. 94-95).


Thanks, AP! This is "back when we was fab." I like the look on the static model. OTOH and only IMHO, I feel awkward, kind of like a clapper inside a bell, while walking in cuffed trousers that aren't long enough to have a break.


----------



## Jovan

PJC in NoVa said:


> He looks awkward in that pose, and the lapel buckling he has going on isn't particularly sightly.
> 
> Nice loafers, though.


I hope you're joking too... he has his arms behind his back! Surely that would cause "buckling" in any jacket, regardless of buttoning.


----------



## Jazzer

AldenPyle said:


> Quoted in Esquire's Encyclopedia of 20th Century Men's Fashion
> 
> _ Rise_. a heavier man should avoid a low-rise trouser since a stomach bulging over the top of one's trousers looks most unflattering. (April, 1962, pp. 94-95).


This concept seems to have been lost completely at some point since 1962. Too bad!


----------



## Jovan

I agree. Lots of dudes (and dudettes) wearing low rise A&F jeans who really shouldn't...


----------



## PersianMonarchs

What a fine looking family. What a lovely photograph. Where are all these people now -- does anybody know?


----------



## Corcovado

*Hotchkiss school, 1954*


----------



## Bermuda

Oral Roberts
1918-2009


----------



## TradMichael

PersianMonarchs said:


> What a fine looking family. What a lovely photograph. Where are all these people now -- does anybody know?


That's the first question I always have when seeing these old pics. Where are they, what happened?


----------



## TradMichael

Corcovado said:


> *If it's not Scottish it's crrrap*


This could seriously be HST in ~1950.


----------



## CMDC

TradMichael said:


> That's the first question I always have when seeing these old pics. Where are they, what happened?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Scranton

Scrantons are a longtime PA political dynasty. He was term limited as PA Gov. There was a bit of a draft Scranton movement in '64 but Goldwater was able to quash it. He was seen as much more moderate than AuH20, in the Rockefeller vein. Later served as Ford's UN Ambassador for a bit before hitting the Board of Directors circuit. Still alive.


----------



## Cardinals5

TradMichael said:


> That's the first question I always have when seeing these old pics. Where are they, what happened?


Here's the wikipedia entry on Scranton's later career:

Under the then-existing Pennsylvania law, Scranton was limited to a single term and could not run for reelection in 1966. That same year, he announced that he would never again seek elected office. After his term in office, Scranton attended the Pennsylvania of 1967-1968 and helped write a new constitution for the state, which included a provision allowing future governors to seek a second term. In 1968, President-elect asked Scranton to become , but he declined. He did serve as a special envoy to the but when he said the Nixon Administration should be "more evenhanded" in managing the problems of the Middle East, some in the American community regarded this as and Nixon quickly distanced himself from the former governor. In accordance with his 1966 pledge never to seek elected office, he rebuffed a draft movement encouraging him to run for the .
After the in 1970 Scranton was asked to chair the to investigate this and other incidents of campus violence and . The committee's conclusions came to be known as the "".
Following Nixon's resignation from the Presidency in 1974, he was appointed as a transition team member for incoming President .
Scranton reentered the business world and served on the boards of several high profile American corporations such as , , , , and the and was president of Northeastern National Bank and Trust Company. He has also been associated with the , the , and was a trustee of Yale University, his .
In 1976, Scranton was chosen by President Ford to become United States Ambassador to the . His measured approach to and genuine interest in earned him much respect in his short time in office. Some in the Republican Party pushed for Scranton to be named Ford's running mate for the 1976 presidential election, but Ford chose Senator of instead. After his term as U.N. Ambassador, Scranton retired to his home in .
Scranton's son, served as Pennsylvania's under . He ran unsuccessfully for governor in 1986 and was for a while considered a leading candidate for the Republican gubernatorial nomination in 2006 but ultimately dropped out of the race.


----------



## Cardinals5

Beat me by seconds CMDC - good stuff



CMDC said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Scranton


----------



## eyedoc2180

Bermuda said:


> Oral Roberts
> 1918-2009


Sorry, but pioneering televangelist fundraising takes him out of the trad category. University tie and sack suit, or not, I can't go with this. Send money, or I'll die? Please.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Cardinals5 said:


> Here's the wikipedia entry on Scranton's later career:
> 
> In 1968, President-elect asked Scranton to become , but he declined.


I wonder if this tradly "Guv whose duds we luv" knew or sensed that SecState (a post w/out all that much real power anyway) would be an especially nothingburger job on Nixon's watch?


----------



## Bermuda

I was just showing an older suit of Oral's. I do not agree completely with any man's views for that matter


----------



## eyedoc2180

Bermuda said:


> I was just showing an older suit of Oral's. I do not agree completely with any man's views for that matter


I am sorry. I didn't mean to jump on you! The news had just shown a collage of his especially offensive orations, so I guess I was edgy from that. He did some good, too, but I have trouble getting past the negative stuff that took his son down, and perhaps could have taken him as well. Peace. Bill


----------



## Jovan

Gentlemen, please don't make this thread too politically charged!


----------



## Bermuda

Robert Downey Jr. at the Sherlock Holmes premier wearing a tradly suit. Definite trad clothing in this movie.


----------



## Jovan

Nice, but not really "trad" by the farthest stretch.

He probably looked better before she yanked his tie loose.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Jovan said:


> Nice, but not really "trad" by the farthest stretch.
> 
> He probably looked better before she yanked his tie loose.


Yeah, as nice as the suit is (no doubt it's bespoke) it's more of an English-countrified kind of "trad" if trad at all.

Maybe the lovely Rachel McAdams is trying to tell him that his tie is a bit too busy to go with that heavily patterned suit. If so, I would have to say she's right.

I wonder if this film will be any good. I'm also certainly going to wind up seeing it, but part of me dreads the thought of what Guy Ritchie will do with (or to) Conan-Doyle's source material.

BTW, if anyone wants a glen-plaid and tweed fix, I recommend the 1985 English classic "The Shooting Party" with James Mason and Edward Fox. The costumes are a smorgasbord of English countrywear (both lord-of-the-manor class and tenant or servant classes--to say nothing of the poacher and animal-rights protester classes) circa 1913.




























Some screenshots here:


----------



## Corcovado

eyedoc2180 said:


> Sorry, but pioneering televangelist fundraising takes him out of the trad category. University tie and sack suit, or not, I can't go with this. Send money, or I'll die? Please.


My impression of this thread, which may be entirely wrong or at least eccentric, was that it was about showing the clothing worn by American men during the heyday of clothing styles that are referred to here as "trad." I've been posting and looking at pictures as documents of sartorial details, a sort of historical/trad "Sartorialist" type thing. That's certainly why I've been posing pictures of students at prep school and universities. I for one don't really care about the men themselves.


----------



## C. Sharp

+1 Like the movie "The Shooting Party" and the book



PJC in NoVa said:


> Yeah, as nice as the suit is (no doubt it's bespoke) it's more of an English-countrified kind of "trad" if trad at all.
> 
> Maybe the lovely Rachel McAdams is trying to tell him that his tie is a bit too busy to go with that heavily patterned suit. If so, I would have to say she's right.
> 
> I wonder if this film will be any good. I'm also certainly going to wind up seeing it, but part of me dreads the thought of what Guy Ritchie will do with (or to) Conan-Doyle's source material.
> 
> BTW, if anyone wants a glen-plaid and tweed fix, I recommend the 1985 English classic "The Shooting Party" with James Mason and Edward Fox. The costumes are a smorgasbord of English countrywear (both lord-of-the-manor class and tenant or servant classes--to say nothing of the poacher and animal-rights protester classes) circa 1913.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some screenshots here:


----------



## Jovan

I'll wait for the reviews to decide whether I want to see it. It looks like they're portraying Holmes as some sort of cage fighting, 19th century London rudeboy. Not sure what to think about that. The trailer rather reminds me of "Wild Wild West," which also had great actors but was a rather mediocre summer action movie.


----------



## Jovan

Mark Shields, who often appears on "The News Hour with Jim Lehrer." Looks like BB ties and shirts.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

I used to see Shields in the 19th Street Joe Bank's. This is back when they carried their own make, US-made togs. I'm sure he patronizes BB, too. Given that he lives in Chevy Chase, I would guess that he used to shop at Arthur Adler, Lewis & Thos. Saltz, Raleigh's, and the GU Shop back in the day as well. Probably stayed away from Britches; it was more of a younger guy's outfitter--lots of cats in braces, slicked-back hair, and long/wide ties.


----------



## rsmeyer

Jovan said:


> I'll wait for the reviews to decide whether I want to see it. It looks like they're portraying Holmes as some sort of cage fighting, 19th century London rudeboy. Not sure what to think about that. The trailer rather reminds me of "Wild Wild West," which also had great actors but was a rather mediocre summer action movie.


Holmes, while he could certainly take care of himself, was essentially cerebral. The trailers on TV look like this will be a dumbed-down "action" flic.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> Mark Shields, who often appears on "The News Hour with Jim Lehrer." Looks like BB ties and shirts.


Cool pics


----------



## AldenPyle

Senator Paul Douglas


----------



## AldenPyle

Arthur Miller (with Elia Kazan)








and in 1991


----------



## AldenPyle

Some guy standing next to Arthur Miller


----------



## Bermuda

I thought that Sherlock Holmes was very cerebral indeed. Lots of traditional clothing


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Bermuda said:


> I thought that Sherlock Holmes was very cerebral indeed. Lots of traditional clothing


In the restaurant scene with Watson and his fiancee, Holmes/Downey appears to be wearing an ascot (or could it be a cravat?) indicating an affiliation with Harrow School.

Does anyone know if there is a warrant in the Conan Doyle stories for the idea of Holmes as an old boy of Harrow? I'm not aware of one, tho' I do know that Dorothy L. Sayers posited SH as having gone up to Cambridge for university studies.


----------



## Jovan

rsmeyer said:


> Holmes, while he could certainly take care of himself, was essentially cerebral. The trailers on TV look like this will be a dumbed-down "action" flic.


I saw it. The mystery itself was okay. I don't see how this was "one of the best movies of the year" like one reviewer said, though. Downey is one of the few American actors who can actually do a decent English accent.

"Lack of hygiene"?! Five o'clock shadow? This is not the Holmes of the novels. He was described as "cat-like" in taking care of his appearance.


----------



## rsmeyer

Jovan said:


> I saw it. The mystery itself was okay. I don't see how this was "one of the best movies of the year" like one reviewer said, though. Downey is one of the few American actors who can actually do a decent English accent.
> 
> "Lack of hygiene"?! Five o'clock shadow? This is not the Holmes of the novels. He was described as "cat-like" in taking care of his appearance.


Any tattoos or piercings? Did he do the "Sherlock Rap"? I will certainly not see this flic.


----------



## Bermuda

Just remember: Directors want their movies to make money. To have a "cat-like" personality would make Holmes boring and unappealing to the majority of the American audience. The average American does not like well behaved gentleman anymore I'm afraid to say. I've seen the old Holmes shows and most Americans would think they were extremely boring....to keep this thread going....a nice photo of some students smoking pipes courtesy of ivy-style.com


----------



## eyedoc2180

Corcovado said:


> My impression of this thread, which may be entirely wrong or at least eccentric, was that it was about showing the clothing worn by American men during the heyday of clothing styles that are referred to here as "trad." I've been posting and looking at pictures as documents of sartorial details, a sort of historical/trad "Sartorialist" type thing. That's certainly why I've been posing pictures of students at prep school and universities. I for one don't really care about the men themselves.


Indeed. If you read #975, you'll see that I've, er, repented after my knee-jerk reaction. Great thread, all.....keep it coming!


----------



## AldenPyle

*Miami, 1968*

At the convention, the Grand Old Party brought the Trad, especially Rocky's backers.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## PJC in NoVa

Bermuda said:


> Just remember: Directors want their movies to make money. To have a "cat-like" personality would make Holmes boring and unappealing to the majority of the American audience. The average American does not like well behaved gentleman anymore I'm afraid to say. I've seen the old Holmes shows and most Americans would think they were extremely boring....


In ch. 12 of _The Hound of the Baskervilles, _Watson says of Holmes:

"In his tweed suit and cloth cap he looked like any other tourist upon the moor, and he had contrived, with that _cat-like love of personal cleanliness which was one of his characteristics,_ that his chin should be as smooth and his linen as perfect as if he were in Baker Street." [emphasis added]

I don't read "cat-like" as a label for Holmes's entire personality, but rather as a descriptor of one of his traits.

At the same time, Holmes is shambolic in his approach to his personal living space (not an unknown combination!), even tho' the disorder within 221B has an idiosyncratic "order" that still allows him to come up with key papers and artifacts just when he needs them.

FWIW, I found RDJ's characterization of Holmes to have some grounding in he stories. Conan Doyle does make clear that Holmes is physically strong and agile, adept with disguises, and an expert at fighting with fists, swords, or sticks. So making him something of an action-hero or Bondish type (albeit one with uncanny investigative and deductive powers plus the usual Holmesian eccentricities) isn't quite as much of a stretch as one might think.


----------



## eyedoc2180

GREAT seersucker on the guy in Alden's second pic. I am longing for spring! It's fun to try to identify who's who in these great photos.


----------



## dmac

The Governor Scranton pics reminded me of my own formerly trad former guv, now congressman, and possibly soon to be senator, Mike Castle, seen below with Cap Weinberger and the governor of Pa. in the eighties. You'll have to use the link since I can't do pics yet. He may very well have a two button sack in this one. He used to be a sack suit wearer but has since switched to HSM "updated american." As it happens, we get our suits at the same store, but I'm strictly an H-Freeman/H-Ortizky sack man even still.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:...Weinberger_at_the_Pentagon,_July_6,_1982.JPEG


----------



## chacend

Looks like it has darts (no big deal) but the real travesty is it looks like two out of the three (Castle and Weinberger) look like they have short sleeved shirts on with their suits.:crazy:


----------



## AldenPyle

eyedoc2180 said:


> GREAT seersucker on the guy in Alden's second pic. I am longing for spring! It's fun to try to identify who's who in these great photos.


The pictures have no labels, so I have been having fun trying to figure it out also. 
Post 1
A. Khaki poplin w/ Foulard: Looks familiar
B. Navy suit w/ uni stripe and #2 stripe repp: Chuck Percy
C. Khaki suit w/lapels: John Lindsay

Post 2
A. Smoking and chatting guys: No clue
B. Three button high roll with repp and tab collar: Mark Hatfield, I think
C. Weird hair with pretty girl: Everett Dirksen

Post 3
A. Reagan obviously
B. Seersucker, Unknown
C. Newspaper readers, unknown

Post 4
A. Madras Guy, unknown
B. Thomas Dewey
C. John Lindsay, again


----------



## AldenPyle

*Special New Years Eve Republican Party Animal Edition*


----------



## eyedoc2180

^^Bless you, Sir. Any idea on the identies of the young ladies above (just kidding)? Dirksen had one of the best lines ever: "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon, you're talking serious money!"


----------



## CMDC

Love the RNC photos. Interesting to see the John Lindsay photos as he was not only very tradly, but would have been persona non grata by the '72 shindig.


----------



## AldenPyle

CMDC said:


> Love the RNC photos. Interesting to see the John Lindsay photos as he was not only very tradly, but would have been persona non grata by the '72 shindig.


Have you read Vincent Cannato's "Ungovernable City?" https://www.amazon.com/Ungovernable-City-Lindsays-Crisis-Liberalism/dp/0465008437

Nelson Rockefeller, himself, always seemed to dress more Saville Row than Trad. As you might imagine, there are many pics of Rockefeller in the Life archives (Time typically being a subsidiary of the GOP establishment). But there appear to be none of him in a button down or a sack suit. Here he is point collar, cufflinks and pleats.


----------



## CharlieV

The first picture in post #1 is US Senator Clifford Case (RNJ).


----------



## CMDC

AldenPyle said:


> Have you read Vincent Cannato's "Ungovernable City?" https://www.amazon.com/Ungovernable-City-Lindsays-Crisis-Liberalism/dp/0465008437
> 
> Nelson Rockefeller, himself, always seemed to dress more Saville Row than Trad. As you might imagine, there are many pics of Rockefeller in the Life archives (Time typically being a subsidiary of the GOP establishment). But there appear to be none of him in a button down or a sack suit. Here he is point collar, cufflinks and pleats.


I have read it. Fantastic portrayal of a city in crisis.


----------



## CMDC

Rick Perlstein's recent "Nixonland" gives a great portrayal of the convention and all the machinations behind it. Reagan's role is really interesting as there were many seeking to draft him. Also, the story of Nixon's courting of Strom Thurmond, and thus opening up the deep south to the GOP, is fascinating.


----------



## Bermuda

The Boston Bruins coach in the NHL Winter Classic game today. Derby hat with a nice 50's style varsity jacket


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Bermuda said:


> The Boston Bruins coach in the NHL Winter Classic game today. Derby hat with a nice 50's style varsity jacket


The NHL should play more games out of doors. The Bruins' sweaters look retro too. The tacky Mickey D's advertising logos, not so much. The helmets, of course, are not especially retro, though they do make sense to wear.

While visiting the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto this summer, I realized that I am of a certain age because I can vividly remember goalies playing bareheaded in thin little masks, but can't remember them playing with no masks at all (now that would be REALLY old . . . .).


----------



## eyedoc2180

PJC in NoVa said:


> The NHL should play more games out of doors. The Bruins' sweaters look retro too. The tacky Mickey D's advertising logos, not so much. The helmets, of course, are not especially retro, though they do make sense to wear.
> 
> While visiting the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto this summer, I realized that I am of a certain age because I can vividly remember goalies playing bareheaded in thin little masks, but can't remember them playing with no masks at all (now that would be REALLY old . . . .).


....which is why one of the famous old-school goalies was nicknamed "Gump."


----------



## AldenPyle

CharlieV said:


> The first picture in post #1 is US Senator Clifford Case (RNJ).


Thanks


----------



## AldenPyle

*Alistair Cooke 1949 & 1953*

























For those of you wondering how a British guy could pull off an Ivy League style look, he had been living in the US for a dozen years and a citizen for many years.


----------



## PersianMonarchs

*trad goalie masks*



PJC in NoVa said:


> The NHL should play more games out of doors. The Bruins' sweaters look retro too. The tacky Mickey D's advertising logos, not so much. The helmets, of course, are not especially retro, though they do make sense to wear.
> 
> While visiting the Hockey Hall of Fame in Toronto this summer, I realized that I am of a certain age because I can vividly remember goalies playing bareheaded in thin little masks, but can't remember them playing with no masks at all (now that would be REALLY old . . . .).


Alas, young man, I can remember goalies taking shots right in the kisser and living to tell about it. Glenn Hall's face was a mass of scars. Jacques Plante looked worse and finally said "enough." He opted for a winter white plain weave plastic shell, undarted.


----------



## AldenPyle

*George Wallace*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## WouldaShoulda

Father in law.

Somewhere in the Pacific 1952.


----------



## AldenPyle

*russell lynes*


----------



## AldenPyle

*warren miller*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Pre-war Trad*

Here are some scenes from a golf championship held in Garden City NJ in 1936 overseen by Prescott Bush, below in white flannels.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## PJC in NoVa

Love the pinned collar and foulard tie on the trilby-wearing sportswriter (you can just see the press badge on his jacket lapel) in the fourth picture from the bottom.

That shirt and tie would look great today. Timeless.


----------



## AldenPyle

I thought it was interesting that the pants were all cut so full and long relative to 1920's natural styles, but they were still all flat front and cuffed. 

I also loved the textures of the jackets and the details.


----------



## Patrick06790

The late Howard Zinn in 1967


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Joseph Alsop (seated), 1939:


----------



## AldenPyle

Patrick06790 said:


> The late Howard Zinn in 1967


It would be fascinating to see how he dressed in 1968, 1969, and so on. Time lapse photography would be a plus.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Birch Bayh*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Mark Hatfield*


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

https://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._111306035668_652180668_2375777_4423516_n.jpg

Not really American Trad, not even American. More Anglo-Irish "Trad" :icon_smile_big:
A friend took this photo during afternoon tea in his garden (in Sweden), autumn 2008......I write 2008.....in case anyone should think 1908 :icon_smile_big:


----------



## AldenPyle

*Life Photographer Rex Hardy*








Haiti 1937


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Great looking collar on that guy - if he buttoned it I'm sure the roll would be even more fantastic.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

AldenPyle said:


> Haiti 1937


He looks like Alan from Three and a Half Men :icon_smile_big: One of my favourite US sitcoms, simply because at times Charlie's dialogue can be so unsubtle and rough or even gross and beyond what you'd expect.


----------



## Cardinals5

I can't seem to get this picture to show up, but it's about the best looking Brooks Brothers shirt I've ever seen. If someone can paste the image I'm sure everyone would be appreciative.


----------



## Monorailcat

^^^ I agree, the girl wearing it certainly helps.....


----------



## Jovan




----------



## Cardinals5

Thanks Jovan, that sure is a pretty shirt :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Jovan

I hope it doesn't go too off-topic. This is "American Trad _Men_" after all.

Although, one could always start "American Trad Women" if so inclined...


----------



## Joe Beamish

Today that would be even slimmer than a BB "slim fit". But then maybe women wore 'em slim as a rule, I don't know.

I keep seeing evidence that no, OCBDs were not always tents. Look at those little arm holes. Or just look at the lady and those cute socks. Heck with it.


----------



## DownByTheRiverSide

*Well, surely it has to be . . .*

. . . on topic . . . It's a Man's Shirt.



Jovan said:


> I hope it doesn't go too off-topic. This is "American Trad _Men_" after all.
> 
> Although, one could always start "American Trad Women" if so inclined...


----------



## Joe Beamish

Actually it might be a boy's shirt. This woman looks tiny.


----------



## Bermuda

He may have appeared briefly earlier, however I'm currently reading a book entitled Gentleman Spy: The Life of Allen Dulles. This book was recommended to me on this wonderful site. This man had an amazing career in all of the major US wars leading up to Vietnam. International espionage and diplomacy, culminating in a long tenure as CIA director. A total trad book and trad man all around


----------



## Sir Cingle

*Hilton Kramer*


----------



## PJC in NoVa

Among the DVDs I rented to help ride out the blizzard is _Eight Men Out, _the 1988 movie about the 1919 Chicago Black Sox scandal, based on a book of the same name. I've seen _EMO_ before, but had forgotten what a great sartorial flick it is, especially if you're interested in hats, collars (detachable celluloid), ties, and suits from its era.

The director, John Sayles, plays sportswriter Ring Lardner, Sr., whom Sayles strongly resembles. Here is Lardner himself:









Here is Sayles as Lardner:









Also from the film, John Cusack as third-baseman Buck Weaver and D.B. Sweeney as Shoeless Joe Jackson:


----------



## C. Sharp

Women would buy from the Brooks boys Dept.



Joe Beamish said:


> Actually it might be a boy's shirt. This woman looks tiny.


----------



## AldenPyle

PJC in NoVa said:


> Among the DVDs I rented to help ride out the blizzard is _Eight Men Out, _the 1988 movie about the 1919 Chicago Black Sox scandal, based on a book of the same name. I've seen _EMO_ before, but had forgotten what a great sartorial flick it is, especially if you're interested in hats, collars (detachable celluloid), ties, and suits from its era.
> 
> The director, John Sayles, plays sportswriter Ring Lardner, Sr., whom Sayles strongly resembles. Here is Lardner himself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is Sayles as Lardner:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also from the film, John Cusack as third-baseman Buck Weaver and D.B. Sweeney as Shoeless Joe Jackson:


Great movie. I think I will try to watch it over the holiday weekend with a sartorial eye.


----------



## Sir Cingle

*Richard Hofstadter*


----------



## Jovan

Joe Beamish said:


> Actually it might be a boy's shirt. This woman looks tiny.





C. Sharp said:


> Women would buy from the Brooks boys Dept.


Might be a women's shirt, actually. Click the first "1949."

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/aboutus/heritage.tem


----------



## C. Sharp

I recently saw a period article from 1950 that confirmed Brooks made a womens shirt in pink. So before 1949 they were raiding the boys dept. I believe they did not have a full blown Women DEPT until 1976. So a photo of a young lady circa 1954 wearing a Brooks button down shirt can indeed be wearing a womans shirt.



Jovan said:


> Might be a women's shirt, actually. Click the first "1949."
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/aboutus/heritage.tem


----------



## Joe Beamish

Gotta say, whether she's wearing a boy's or men's shirt, she looks a lot better than the latest group of ugly guy pics


----------



## C. Sharp

Here is the Life article with more pics starts page 115 https://books.google.com/books?id=W1MEAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&lr=&rview=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false



Joe Beamish said:


> Gotta say, whether she's wearing a boy's or men's shirt, she looks a lot better than the latest group of ugly guy pics


----------



## Joe Beamish

Thanks. The whole point of the article is how women are raiding the men's department for their clothes. So I'd guess the pink shirt is probably a man's shirt (or a boy's shirt as in the picture just above it).

It's great to look at those old Life magazines. What a coherent world it was, or seemed to be.


----------



## LastMango

So I've been looking for contemporary American Trad's. Does Larry Kudlow fit the bill? (Coke sniffing aside) Not sure about that spread collar...


----------



## Bermuda

he doesn't look trad to me at all sorry.... terrible "modern" ties and ridiculous collar


----------



## Bermuda

Since Eight Men Out was posted....I will add The Natural, another trad baseball movie


----------



## Joe Beamish

Kudlow doesn't look very trad. Although he DOES look like people in the WAYWT thread


----------



## rsmeyer

Bermuda said:


> he doesn't look trad to me at all sorry.... terrible "modern" ties and ridiculous collar


Also, he is hypermanic, like Jim Cramer-not a "Trad" trait at all.


----------



## PJC in NoVa

It's more Anglo-trad, but Rowan Atkinson in the spy spoof _Johnny English:_





















The smokin' hot babe, btw, is Aussie songbird Natalie Imbruglia, who pretty much disappeared after this flick came out (her performance isn't _that _bad, and with her looks, who really cares about the status of her acting chops anyway?). John Malkovich's outrageously obnoxious French accent is the highlight of the picture--along with the clothes, of course.

Note the slanted pockets on Atkinson's white d.j. Pretty cool, I say.


----------



## LastMango

Joe Beamish said:


> .....the WAYWT thread


Help a newbie out on this


----------



## Cardinals5

WAYWT (What Are You Wearing Today) thread. Some of the guys who post in the WAYWT thread aren't very trad, or trad at all, just like the pics of the guy you posted. Joe's message, if I may be so bold so as to speak for him, is to look at the outfits of the trad guys in the WAYWT thread to give you a feeling for the range of looks you can have as a "trad", but also what is not part of the look (e.g. black jackets, certain "non-traditional" tie patterns, etc.)


----------



## TradMichael

*Good Neighbor Sam (1964)*

(I'd been tipped off to this & basically the whole Jack Lemmon Collection DVD via the great Ivy Style blog. Some of the films are a bit tediously corny but entirely worthwhile for the styles, fashion & background imagery---what a great country that was.)


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

*Newman, Stewart, Peck*


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

AldenPyle said:


>


Not a fan of Paul's jacket, great tie & shirt though.
Jimmy's trousers are almost up under his armpits! :icon_smile_wink::icon_smile:
Gregory, as always, looks ultra-cool, look at the hair,the beard, the shades. Great jacket, great tie!


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

AldenPyle said:


>


Aaaahh my eyes!!! What's the deal with the high placement of the bottom of that zip? And what a horrible shirt! And a t-shirt underneath...aaaaggh! And is he expecting a flood soon? :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

LastMango said:


> So I've been looking for contemporary American Trad's. Does Larry Kudlow fit the bill? (Coke sniffing aside) Not sure about that spread collar...


It might just be me, but every one of those 4 outfits looks bloody awful in my opinion and they don't in any way represent my understanding of American Trad! But hey, what do I know! :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## eagle2250

^^
+1. You must know enough. Earl, you are spot-on, with your assessment of this one!


----------



## Joe Beamish

I LOVE Paul's jacket -- it looks like excellent wool, and there's no mistaking the natural shoulder -- and dislike his tie (a half windsor? no dimple?)


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

Joe Beamish said:


> I LOVE Paul's jacket -- it looks like excellent wool, and there's no mistaking the natural shoulder -- and dislike his tie (a half windsor? no dimple?)


That's a full Windsor QED no dimple required :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Joe Beamish

Looks smallish for a full windsor, though of course the idiotically symmetrical shape indicates it's a half or full windsor. And yes a dimple is required.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde

Joe Beamish said:


> Looks smallish for a full windsor, though of course the idiotically symmetrical shape indicates it's a half or full windsor. And yes a dimple is required.


Well tastes differ, I've used some very small full Windsors, especially on button-downs. For me that knot looks far too symmetrical to be a half Windsor.

Tastes also differ on dimples, myself and dare I speak for the UK generally? On a full Windsor, no dimple. 
My father always had a dimple on a half Windsor but never on a full.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I'm sure you're right about the dimple. Such things shouldn't be "required" I admit, but somehow my eye always finds that particular omission irksome, the way that some chaps are humorously appalled by the lack of a pocket square....


----------



## Jovan

IMO, a half or full Windsor simply looks "wrong" to me with a button down collar, even if it fills the space better. As for the lack of dimple, it's hard to get one to stay put on those unlined narrow ties. I don't bother and it seems like a lot of men didn't back then.

Tie knots aside, it's a shame Mr. Newman is no longer with us. I just caught _Slapshot_ on Versus yesterday. (I'm not sure what that station is even about.) I also continue to enjoy Newman's Own products.


----------



## AldenPyle

Henry Fonda


----------



## rsmeyer

AldenPyle said:


> Henry Fonda


At times used Chipp and Fenn-Feinstein.


----------



## AldenPyle

rsmeyer said:


> At times used Chipp and Fenn-Feinstein.


 That seems quite plausible. I am wondering how you know this.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Random guy hitting on Ann Margaret*









in 1961


----------



## rsmeyer

AldenPyle said:


> That seems quite plausible. I am wondering how you know this.


from reading old magazines (Esky, GQ).


----------



## AldenPyle

rsmeyer said:


> from reading old magazines (Esky, GQ).


Thanks


----------



## Reds & Tops

AldenPyle said:


> in 1961


She is not having it.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Henry Cabot Lodge, 1938*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Winants*

Ambassador to UK, John Winant in 1945








.and his son in 1941.


----------



## Taken Aback

Reds & Tops said:


> She is not having it.


I can't ridicule him. Who wouldn't try?


----------



## AldenPyle

*Ambassador to France, William Bullitt*

In 1939,








And as a younger man, probably 1920's


----------



## CMDC

Another Bullitt


----------



## AldenPyle

*James Ellroy*


----------



## P Hudson

AldenPyle said:


> in 1961


Not that it captures the eye in this picture, but I wonder what colors that man way off to the side of the picture is wearing. It sure is hard to focus on his shirt with that distraction on the left.


----------



## mualphapiper

*Dirty Harry*

Have we covered this before?

3 pc. suit, no darts, nicely dimpled tie, 44 mag










My favorite: Tweed check (Harris?) -- I think I see the pattern coming together on the right chest, so darted  -- knit vest, flat fronts of some kind, and can't tell re: the shirt










Again with the tweed and vest, this time the shirt looks to be OCBD, and of course the American made S&W 44 magnum revolver is very trad. I think J. Press sells them :icon_smile_big:


----------



## mualphapiper

*Clint Eastwood*

Modern Clint in G9 (I think?)










Dirty Harry-esque sweater, tie and unbuttoned OCBD collar


----------



## AldenPyle

P Hudson said:


> Not that it captures the eye in this picture, but I wonder what colors that man way off to the side of the picture is wearing. It sure is hard to focus on his shirt with that distraction on the left.


Indeed, she is most attractive


----------



## Jovan

That's not Ann-Margret, that's Ann-Margrock! 

Funny to think that _The Flintstones_ originally featured cigarette ads with Fred and Barney lighting up. Naturally, Hanna-Barbera removed them years later, but it's still interesting.


----------



## Dr.Watson

Cary Granite was pretty trad too.


----------



## Brooksfan

[
Again with the tweed and vest, this time the shirt looks to be OCBD, and of course the American made S&W 44 magnum revolver is very trad. I think J. Press sells them :[/QUOTE]

Ask for the Bud Dwyer autograph model. Just the thing for those impromptu press conferences. I wish a few of our Illinois politicos would check out this way.


----------



## The Rambler

Thanks for the photos of Archibald Cox, a paragon of ancient virtue, and the very pattern of how to dress trad--not just what to wear, but how to wear it. A couple of observations: tweed jackets look best with a crew cuts; combined with a skinny bow tie the look is almost totemic.


----------



## The Rambler

Yeah, Chafee's perfectly imperfect. I showed the picture to my wife, a blueblooded Rhode Islander of the same vintage, and she said "yeah? so?" meaning, I think, doesn't everybody dress like that? Loved the picture of O'hara in the checked jacket, looking, as you say, almost content for once. Cigarettes go well with 50s clothes.


----------



## Bermuda

The Aviator (2004)


----------



## 127.72 MHz

AldenPyle said:


> in 1961


Why she ever made her hair light, blond, platinum, or what have you, I'll never know.

I was born the year the image was taken and Ann Margaret was twenty years old. A very attractive young lady.


----------



## Bermuda

almost every Dicaprio movie is trad


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Bermuda,

I'm not quite sure if I follow...

The Revolutionary Road outfit looks about right, but that's about it.


----------



## AldenPyle

I've always liked this picture


----------



## Bermuda

I know that the jackets have darts, but most of the movies are set in the 50's-60's. Let's say the clothing is "old fashioned" then


----------



## AldenPyle

DiCaprio's Shutter Island outfit pretty much illustrates the antithesis of Trad. Super wide, heavily padded shoulders; pleated pants cut for a rhinoceros; wide, violently patterned tie in colors not found in nature. In fact, the public reaction to the vulgarity of the late-40s "Bold Look" at least partly explains the popularity of the understatement of the Ivy League style suits in the 1950s.

I gather the setting in the immediate post-war period is pretty integral to the drama of the move and the costumers did a good job of pinning it down. Anybody seen it? Is it any good?


----------



## Jovan

The costumes in Shutter Island are great and the movie itself is fantastic. Go see it. Personally, I didn't think the suits were too exaggerated in cut. They were typical '50s drape.


----------



## jclothlover

Doctor Damage said:


> More photos of GHWB, the Congress years. The sack he's wearing in the first photo makes up for the one he's wearing in the earlier photos.
> 
> GWHB with jordans brood. Love those loafers he's wearing on the elephant.


:icon_smile:

Great set of suits. Nice find! =)


----------



## CMDC

Today's the 48th anniversary of Wilt Chamberlain's 100 point game. si.com had some nice photos including this...trad Wilt!!! Check out the argyles and dirty bucks.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Jay Rockefeller*


----------



## Pgolden

Wonderful photos of JR, thanks for posting. I am particularly struck by the 3d one. Here we have the great-grandson of an oil tycoon, a graduate of Exeter and Harvard, and in the 3d photo he is dressed in the same fashion as the citizen with whom he is talking, a fellow who was most likely a child of a far less moneyed background. That tells us a great deal about how we used to be.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Today they'd both be wearing tank tops and flip-flops.

The last pic showing JR with the pipe smoker reminds of something Mad artist Dave Berg would have drawn. Not that I've been able to find examples his older work (late 50s, early 60s) online.


----------



## raincoat

Those pictures of Jay Rockefeller are really good.

Another Cheever and another Updike:





I don't think those have been posted yet but if so, sorry for the repeat. Check out Cheever's hair! Looks just like TripEnglish.


----------



## The Rambler

I'm loving these pix, especially th very young Updike. Does anyone have one of Faulkner, wearing one of his snappy tweeds?


----------



## rsmeyer

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Today they'd both be wearing tank tops and flip-flops.
> 
> The last pic showing JR with the pipe smoker reminds of something Mad artist Dave Berg would have drawn. Not that I've been able to find examples his older work (late 50s, early 60s) online.


No, only the guy on the right would.


----------



## AldenPyle

Pgolden said:


> Wonderful photos of JR, thanks for posting. I am particularly struck by the 3d one. Here we have the great-grandson of an oil tycoon, a graduate of Exeter and Harvard, and in the 3d photo he is dressed in the same fashion as the citizen with whom he is talking, a fellow who was most likely a child of a far less moneyed background. That tells us a great deal about how we used to be.


Well, I think that all of those photos tell us something about the way things used to be, good and bad. So many of the pictures from this era exude an optimism or at the least a confidence that was perhaps a bit overweening but that I nonetheless continue to find inspiring. Is it a belief in rationality or in progress? Perhaps that is reading too much into the picture, but perhaps not.



Joe Beamish said:


> The last pic showing JR with the pipe smoker reminds of something Mad artist Dave Berg would have drawn. Not that I've been able to find examples his older work (late 50s, early 60s) online.


Inspired reference! There's something definitely more to the guy with the pipe than meets the eye.



The Rambler said:


> I'm loving these pix, especially th very young Updike. Does anyone have one of Faulkner, wearing one of his snappy tweeds?


I think you can definitely find tweedy pictures of Faulkner in this thread.


----------



## M. Morgan

AldenPyle,

Love the Rockefeller pictures. Do you have links to where you got them? I'd like to know their locations (I imagine West Virginia but wonder where, precisely). I did a Life search for "Rockefeller" in Google's Life images but could not find these.

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## AldenPyle

I got it here
https://images.google.com/images?hl...ource:life&aql=&oq=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

They seem roughly contemporary with some other pictures with his then fiancee (and later wife) Sharon Percy (daughter of AldenPyle sartorial hero, Charles Percy). Perhaps by searching issues near their wedding date, you might find them. Good luck. Bear in mind, there are many more photos in the archives than were ever used in print. Likewise, some in print, may not be found in the Google Archives (though I think they keep adding new ones).


----------



## P Hudson

I esp. admire the middle picture of JR, with the muddy boots.


----------



## Pgolden

rsmeyer said:


> No, only the guy on the right would.


 That was my point. Glad you got it.


----------



## rsmeyer

Pgolden said:


> That was my point. Glad you got it.


Thanks:icon_smile:.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Rich young guys don't dress waaay down these days when hanging with the rabble? Really?



rsmeyer said:


> No, only the guy on the right would.


----------



## raincoat

charlie500 said:


>


This is a great picture. Admittedly posted a long long time ago but I was just making my way through this thread and found it. Is it from a personal collection?


----------



## AldenPyle

*Sen. Hugh Scott R-PA, 1964*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Paddle Tennis Player 1940*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Chuck Percy 1959*


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> Rich young guys don't dress waaay down these days when hanging with the rabble? Really?


To me that looks like a campaigning politician talking on the street to a small town professional or businessman. I guess today, they would both be wearing a blue OCBD and khakis.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Or a patterned sport shirt with jeans or black pants. I guess it depends on what part of the country. It could even involve sandals.


----------



## Doctor Damage

AldenPyle said:


>


What search terms did you use to find this one?


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ That picture sums up pretty much my life goals


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> What search terms did you use to find this one?


bachelor source:life



Joe Beamish said:


> ^ That picture sums up pretty much my life goals


:icon_smile:


----------



## AldenPyle

*First Family of Trad*

Here's a life layout on the Lowell Family of Massachusetts. 
https://books.google.com/books?id=rkEEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA126&dq=lowell+family&as_pt=MAGAZINES&ei=AC2gS9TXN6GGkQTZqrzXCQ&cd=2#v=onepage&q=lowell%20family&f=false


----------



## AldenPyle

*A few select pictures*

Here's the poet Robert Lowell


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

*Ralph Lowell at the Museum of Fine Arts*

































(This guy's name is actually Percy Rathbone.)


----------



## AldenPyle

*More Lowells*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Fairfield Porter*


----------



## AldenPyle

*Portrait by Elaine de Kooning*


----------



## VinceRich

No offense. I'm sure that he's a nice guy, but he looks like an old man who's dressed like an old man....It doesn't seem impressive relative to my taste. To each her and his own....


----------



## Coleman

VinceRich

This probably isn't the forum for you. Had you spent ten minutes in it before posting to it you would have found we all dress like "old m(e)n" "relative to (your) taste." 

I'd recommend researching a forum a bit before posting a statement to it that might in fact be an insult to every poster of that forum.

If you do in fact research the Trad Forum and find that you like the style, stick around and post, but I'm guessing the Fashion Forum is more to your taste.


----------



## Reds & Tops

Will the LIFE archive ever cease to supply great photographs?


----------



## AldenPyle

Robert Motherwell


----------



## AldenPyle

Marca-Relli


----------



## AldenPyle

Mambo Band Pete Terrace Quintet at the Macumba in San Francisco 1954


----------



## R0ME0

Michael Douglas does trad. I found this pic in Under customer pics.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Wow. Sack blazers unite! Great stuff


----------



## AldenPyle

Notice they have Luis Tiant's name written on the bongos. Apparently, the Red Sox pitcher's father was a legendary Cuban hero and ***** League player.


----------



## AldenPyle

Robert Oppenheimer
























From a time when both professors and students smoked through lectures.


----------



## AldenPyle

*John McCloy*


----------



## Bermuda

The 60 Minutes guys in 1968


----------



## C. Sharp

Robert Oppenheimer was a Langrock customer.


----------



## alexaristoi

sorry but one of my first thoughts ... 

second from the left


----------



## AldenPyle

Sean Flynn 1961


----------



## Corcovado

*James Jesus Angleton*


----------



## AldenPyle

John Hammond Sr.


----------



## AldenPyle

Civil rights activist Virginius Thornton


----------



## Bermuda

Christopher Plummer as Mike Wallace from the movie The Insider...OCBDs and Knit Ties with Tweed jackets






and the real Wallace:


----------



## AldenPyle

Not sure who he is but he was involved, somehow, in a sit-in in Petersburg, Virginia in 1962. Pitch perfect though


----------



## AldenPyle

Norman Borlaug


----------



## AldenPyle

Here is a nice pic of Christopher Isherwood in LA in 1960 in a Brooks Brothers type flannel suit









{Gerald Heard in brown suit, Aldous Huxley in cream, chemists Julian Huxley (C) and Linus Pauling (R) in dark suits}


----------



## AldenPyle

*Fred Seaton*

President Eisenhower's Secretary of the Interior Fred Seaton discusses his appointment as the chairman of the President's Fitness Council with the press corps.
















and relaxes at home


----------



## CMDC

I like how he's smoking a cigarette while discussing his appointment to the President's Fitness Council.


----------



## Bermuda

seems like a comedy skit doesn't it?
and now...Andy Griffith show Trad:


----------



## ButtondownMind

Ken Prewitt and Tom Keene, hosts of Bloomberg Radio's "Bloomberg Surveillance" (M-F 7am-9am.Well worth a listen, IMHO. Intelligent, informative and frequently dryly humorous.) Prewitt is an avid fly fisherman, and has mentioned shopping at BB; Keene is frequently mentioned to be wearing bow ties and seersucker suits to work, and is the butt of a running joke on the show that he drives a '54 Nash.


----------



## Bermuda

triplets in seersucker


----------



## Beresford

*William Faulkner at U.Va.*

(Photos from University of Virginia Library Archives, as featured in _Garden & Gun_* magazine's online website.)

More photos here:

*_Garden & Gun_ is a great magazine, I highly recommend it.


----------



## gman-17

Geirge Steinbrenner - Nothing more Trad than the Yankee logo - Nothing more American than winning!


----------



## Corcovado

Love the Faulkner pics Beresford. I hadn't been over here to AAAC forum in a while but they ran a story on NPR about this UVA archive and as soon as I saw the pics I thought of this thread. (Look what you people have done to me.) There are additional pictures at the UVA Library archive site, 48 in all, and AAAC forum readers may want to see them by clicking here (scroll down about 3/4 of the way to bottom). The audio files of Faulkner's lectures look they will be interesting as well.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Robert DeNiro in the 1997 film _Wag The Dog_. Keep in mind this look was put together by a stylist/costumer for a fictional film and is therefore fun but not real.

https://img189.imageshack.us/i/wagdog1.png/https://img692.imageshack.us/i/wagdog2.png/
https://img683.imageshack.us/i/66279004c54f3a8e.jpg/https://img341.imageshack.us/i/mv5bmtu5ntk5nte2n15bml5.jpg/
https://img683.imageshack.us/i/2009362210722024.jpg/https://img717.imageshack.us/i/site28rand403431947wagt.jpg/
https://img714.imageshack.us/i/robertdenirowagthedog.jpg/https://img340.imageshack.us/i/2009362210723024.jpg/https://img69.imageshack.us/i/conradbreanstanleymotss.jpg/


----------



## Doctor Damage

...one more pic from _Wag The Dog_. Neat penny loafers on DeNiro.

https://img33.imageshack.us/i/wagthedog.jpg/


----------



## The Rambler

DD: thanks for that post - I had almost forgotten that great movie, must rent.

Beresford: (as in John Beresford Tipton?) No one ever looked more professorial/writerly than Faulkner at UVA! The first photo is just superb.


----------



## AldenPyle

Saul Alinsky


----------



## AldenPyle

Good pictures. Love the Faulkner pics.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Harrison Ford in _Presumed Innocent_, from 1990. Interesting film, lots of OCBDs on Ford, and a twist ending that I suppose I should have seen coming from a mile off when I first saw the film.

https://img571.imageshack.us/i/presumedinn.jpg/


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ That shot is from _Frantic_ of course, another great thriller from the 1980s.

Here's a courtoom scene from _Presumed Innocent_:

https://img835.imageshack.us/i/presumeinnocent19907072.jpg/


----------



## gman-17

Yes, Doc, that is from Frantic. HF had a few years when he truly was the Trad standard bearer. My favorite 80s "trad" clothing movie is Legal Eagles. (Robert Redford is generally, despite his politics  , very trad.)


----------



## Doctor Damage

gman-17 said:


> Yes, Doc, that is from Frantic. HF had a few years when he truly was the Trad standard bearer. My favorite 80s "trad" clothing movie is Legal Eagles. (Robert Redford is generally, despite his politics  , very trad.)


I suspect you're joking about politics, but I find myself wearing trad clothing less and less because of the tendency for it to be interpreted as a uniform for American conservatives, which makes me really uncomfortable since I have exactly zero respect for American conservativism. Of course one of the fundamental failures of trad as a style is how it was co-opted right from the start by many people as a cloak or justification for their personal beliefs and tastes. It's nothing more than a contemporary clothing style that emulates a popular American fashion trend of the 1950s and 1960s (itself based loosely on Ivy League fashions of previous decades, with modification). It's a mistake to layer on unrelated political, religious, and social significances - how can one argue, with a straight face, that tassel loafers are conservative, not liberal, shoes?


----------



## Jovan

Guys, let's be careful not to turn this into a political discussion.


----------



## Valkyrie

> It's a mistake to layer on unrelated political, religious, and social significances - how can one argue, with a straight face, that tassel loafers are conservative, not liberal, shoes?


It may be true that some of our fashion examples tend to be conservative politically (WFB, Jr., JJA, all those great photos up the chain), but there is also William Kunstler, who nearly always turned out for court in OCBD, rep ties, and sack suits; Saul Alinsky (just a few photos back), the Kennedy boys (as has been pictured repeatedly). There are plenty of trad models on the left, even the far left-which mostly proves your point. The clothes just mean you like the clothes and feel comfortable in them. No particular social group (except, of course, the well dressed) "owns' them.


----------



## Saltydog

Jovan said:


> Guys, let's be careful not to turn this into a political discussion.


Thank you! There are no shortages of outlets for the liberal/conservative debate. One of tbe reasons I come to this forum is to escape it!


----------



## Bermuda

Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth fishing together.


----------



## gman-17

Saltydog said:


> Thank you! There are no shortages of outlets for the liberal/conservative debate. One of tbe reasons I come to this forum is to escape it!


But if you bother to review even a few of the many exhchanges between myself and Doctor Damage you will see that the quips back and forth was nothing more than good natured chiding we both add a significant amount to the visual images that adorn this thread.


----------



## gman-17

I can't remember if this has been posted already but it is timely given the movie theme.


----------



## Jovan

I would only consider the first and last outfit "trad" but Peppard is turned out well in general. Unfortunately some of Hepburn's wardrobe doesn't age as nicely. (Point in case: The hats, orange coat, and baggy turtleneck.)


----------



## gman-17

Jovan said:


> I would only consider the first and last outfit "trad" but Peppard is turned out well in general. Unfortunately some of Hepburn's wardrobe doesn't age as nicely. (Point in case: The hats, orange coat, and baggy turtleneck.)


Jovan, that is an interesting take on "trad." I would argue your definition is more "prep" than "trad." All his outfits are classically American. As to Hepburn, oh well.


----------



## Jovan

He's wearing a point collar and, IIRC, a two button darted suit. Not in the trad dogma at all, but nonetheless quite stylish. I just noticed the second two pictures are almost the same outfit as the first but without the cardigan. Still, you get my point.  

"Preppy" might include point collars and darted two buttons. "Trad" is all about the button downs and 3/2 sacks, according to this forum. We can't really include everything just because it's classic and American.


----------



## The Rambler

Bermuda said:


> Lou Gehrig and Babe Ruth fishing together.


Some boat!


----------



## The Rambler

btw, I can't help feeling that movie stars such as Redford and, God help us, George Peppard, with wardrobes by wardrobe, lower the tone of this wonderful thread a little.


----------



## gman-17

Jovan said:


> He's wearing a point collar and, IIRC, a two button darted suit. Not in the trad dogma at all, but nonetheless quite stylish. I just noticed the second two pictures are almost the same outfit as the first but without the cardigan. Still, you get my point.
> 
> "Preppy" might include point collars and darted two buttons. "Trad" is all about the button downs and 3/2 sacks, according to this forum. We can't really include everything just because it's classic and American.


You see, Jovan, I would defnitely reverse your order of things. Trad is certainly a more inclusive term than preppy. I think you have properly identified the distinction between the two--in reverse. If the only shirt that you can wear and still be considered "trad" is a button down then a lot of "trad" heroes will need their membership cards revoked.


----------



## Bermuda

Peter Morici, Economics Professor at the University of Maryland, Fox News Contributor




today on Fox he was wearing a charcoal striped blazer, blue OCBD, and argyle sutherland repp bow tie


----------



## P Hudson

gman-17 said:


> You see, Jovan, I would defnitely reverse your order of things. Trad is certainly a more inclusive term than preppy. I think you have properly identified the distinction between the two--in reverse. If the only shirt that you can wear and still be considered "trad" is a button down then a lot of "trad" heroes will need their membership cards revoked.


This thread, with its 48 pages, is a pretty narrow slice. Are you arguing that we have been looking at hundreds of people in preppy, not trad, outfits?


----------



## gman-17

P Hudson said:


> This thread, with its 48 pages, is a pretty narrow slice. Are you arguing that we have been looking at hundreds of people in preppy, not trad, outfits?


No. I am arguing that Trad clothing is not limited to button down shirts alone. Look back through the pages and you will see lots of trads wearing collars other than buttion downs. Preppy is a slice of trad not the entirety of trad. Trad is traditional American clothing--nothing more and nothing less. For some reason this distinction is lost on people and it is the reason why you have threads on "trad baby names," huh????

To the point, here is Bruce Boyer, the tradliest of trad icons, wearing something other than a buttondown shirt:










You go right ahead and tell him he isn't a trad--I'll be sure to stand behind you. :icon_smile_wink:

Edit: Certain people here use the terms "preppy" and "trad" as synonyms. They are not. Preppy is definitely a subset of trad. This point is lost on many here.


----------



## Jovan

But there's a certain limit to what outfits you can call "trad." Most of the men posted are at least wearing an element of it. For instance, their coat may roll to the top button but it still has soft shoulders and no darts and they're also wearing a button down. Now I'm not saying G. Bruce Boyer _can't_ be trad, just that he doesn't look like it in that picture. I draw from all sorts of clothing styles myself, though of course my wardrobe isn't nearly as big or refined.


----------



## gman-17

Jovan said:


> But there's a certain limit to what outfits you can call "trad." Most of the men posted are at least wearing an element of it. For instance, their coat may roll to the top button but it still has soft shoulders and no darts and they're also wearing a button down. Now I'm not saying G. Bruce Boyer _can't_ be trad, just that he doesn't look like it in that picture. I draw from all sorts of clothing styles myself, though of course my wardrobe isn't nearly as big or refined.


He doesn't look "trad" to your eye--fair enough. However the mistake you are making is creating this parallelism between trad and preppy and that is incorrect. Alden Indie boots may be "trad" but they certainly aren't "preppy." No true prep would be caught dead in them. Preps may only wear buttondown collared shirts, but trads have a wider venue. Again, it is this lack of nuance which creates the silliness. It is why someone can actually think that "trad" clothing may be equated to "wasp" clothing--again they aren't synonmous. I can only lead the shells to water . . . .


----------



## Saltydog

Speaking of George Peppard's wardrobe...I was flipping channels the other day and came across an old re-run of "The A Team". Peppard was the essence of late 70's chic complete with a "fashion" safari jacket, and--for some unknown reason--an ever-present pair of black leather gloves...constantly clutching some sort of long thin "charrot" or "cigarillo". When I see actors in movie or television show scenes dressed in traditional style, I always assume they are wearing what the director and costume designer/coordinator decided the character they were portraying should wear. 

If I see them in repeated candid photos taken when they are not performing wearing traditional attire, I come closer to thinking they actually dress that way by choice in their everyday life. There seems to be a good bit of photographic evidence, for example, that the late Paul Newman and Steve McQueen both had primarily traditional tastes in their personal attire. However, it could be that they were simply products of the period they came out of. I doubt either gave it a lot of thought other than having innate good taste. I do tend to be a bit skeptical of show folk since, by nature, most can be quite fickle. If you think about it, it make since since they have to get into the skin of so many other characters throughout their career. Also both Broadway and Hollywood tend to be quite flamboyant when it comes to fashion...with most of the people there seemingly prone to being slaves of fashion trends and current idiosyncratic affectations.


----------



## AldenPyle

Robert A. Taft








Robert Taft II


----------



## AldenPyle

Ambassaor to Canada Livington Merchant


----------



## demondeac

There's nothing wrong with a crisp shirt and well-shined shoes ...


----------



## AldenPyle

Albert Wohlstetter, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles Burchfield


----------



## dshell

I admire AldenPyle's approach: action rather than talk. He sets the tone of this thread from the front!


----------



## hookem12387

Can anyone help me with the JFK picture, on the boat, wearing chinos and a sweatshirt with a polo underneath? Gracias


----------



## maximar

dshell said:


> I admire AldenPyle's approach: action rather than talk. He sets the tone of this thread from the front!


+1. Talk is cheap, pics are precious!

Any H. Murakami fan is a friend of mine!


----------



## AldenPyle

Thanks for the encouraging words. Here's a scene from the 1958 Broadway play Say Darling about the making of..a Broadway play. Inspector Queen in tweed in center, Bert Cooper at left in Pincord.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Charles van Doren*

















Kudos to tailor for trouser hem.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Merv Griffin 1958*


----------



## AldenPyle

Eisenhower Aide Kevin McCann in 1953








and with Ike in 1961


----------



## Jovan

hookem12387 said:


> Can anyone help me with the JFK picture, on the boat, wearing chinos and a sweatshirt with a polo underneath? Gracias


----------



## Dragoon

Piedmont College alumni, played baseball with Johnny Mize. Photo, circa 1962.


----------



## AldenPyle

Pete Rozelle








with Hale Boggs and NFL executive


----------



## AldenPyle

*A. Whitney Griswold*


----------



## AldenPyle

Clinton Rossiter


----------



## archduke

I don't know how but tweed worn by many of the older guys here does not make them look fuddy duddy. They still retain a youthfullness that is hard to describe.


----------



## AldenPyle

From a Life profile of a now-defunct Wall Street boutique law firm:


----------



## AldenPyle

*1960 I think*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Judge Clement Haynsworth


----------



## katon

American Trad freshmen, courtesy of the Harvard Archives  :









(1955)


----------



## AldenPyle

John Dean


----------



## AldenPyle

Get Clean for Gene. 








On the Trail









Young supporters of Eugene McCarthy hearing the news of Bobby Kennedy's death.


----------



## AldenPyle

Bloomington publisher Loring Chase (Bud) Merwin


----------



## AldenPyle

Kennedy Aides
Kenny O'Donnell








and Ralph Dungan


----------



## AldenPyle

Ad Executive Julian Koenig 1963


----------



## AldenPyle

SI Newhouse


----------



## AldenPyle

Ike in 1958


----------



## AldenPyle

The life photographer Alfred Eisenstaedt apparently spent a lot of time on Martha's Vineyard over at least a 50 year period and there are tons of pics on the Life Archives if you like that sort of thing. Here's a preppie dude:


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## fiddler

AldenPyle said:


>


Perfect silhouette on the man in the middle!


----------



## AldenPyle

An alternative approach to reds


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Jovan

These pictures are definitive proof that logos on polo shirts and slim fits have been available for a long, long time.


----------



## maximar

AldenPyle said:


>


I hope these are no forumites relatives. Don't they look creepy?
As if they dumped someone somewhere I few minutes before this shot or dumped the one taking the photo after. :crazy:


----------



## AldenPyle

You have a vivid imgaination. It turns out that Eisenstaedt was kind of known for his pictures at Martha's Vineyard and even published a coffee table book on the subject. Also, he took the picture of the sailor kissing the nurse at the end of WWII. Mostly they are landscapes and portraits, definitely worth looking at on Google if you like that sort of thing.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Jovan

AP: You've been posting a lot of photos of other people, but none of yourself recently! I miss your WAYW posts.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> AP: You've been posting a lot of photos of other people, but none of yourself recently! I miss your WAYW posts.


Nice of you to say. I always viewed the WAYW posts as a learning exercise. Mirrors lie, looking at pictures can help a lot. Posting the pictures puts some skin in the game. Unfortunately, my learning has plataeued of late. Perhaps if I start doing something new.


----------



## AldenPyle

Alfred Eisenstaedt, 1945


----------



## PersianMonarchs

Please keep up the good work, Alden Pyle. These old photos are just wonderful.


----------



## AldenPyle

PersianMonarchs said:


> Please keep up the good work, Alden Pyle. These old photos are just wonderful.


Nice of you to say
Eugene Mccarthy Campaign 1968


----------



## AldenPyle

I'm not sure I would have gone with this shirt with that suit. Something in an ecru would probably have worked better. Otherwise... Solid!


----------



## hookem12387

AldenPyle said:


>


I spy flipflops


----------



## AldenPyle

Frank Reynolds, I think


----------



## AldenPyle

Balloon entertainer Bert Shevlove 1948


----------



## AldenPyle

*More Red Pants on Martha's Vineyard, 1965.*

Talbot Rantoul, proud owner of a new Eliot Noyes summer house


----------



## AldenPyle

I think this is Noyes himself (w/son). Eliot Noyes designed the IBM Selectric. 









Fans of mid-century design would be advised to look at pictures in the Life Archives
https://images.google.com/images?q=noyes+source:life&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1366&bih=632&tbs=isch:1,ic:color&source=lnt&sa=X&ei=M1B_TMCBBJCrcY6_hPEK&ved=0CBIQpwU


----------



## Cowtown

This is the best thread on the forum. Thanks for your work AP>


----------



## Joe Beamish

Cowtown said:


> This is the best thread on the forum. Thanks for your work AP>


I'll second that. This is the ONLY thread.


----------



## The Rambler

Joe Beamish said:


> I'll second that. This is the ONLY thread.


I love it, too. Welcome back, JB,


----------



## Doctor Damage

Jovan said:


> But there's a certain limit to what outfits you can call "trad." Most of the men posted are at least wearing an element of it. For instance, their coat may roll to the top button but it still has soft shoulders and no darts and they're also wearing a button down. Now I'm not saying G. Bruce Boyer can't be trad, just that he doesn't look like it in that picture. I draw from all sorts of clothing styles myself, though of course my wardrobe isn't nearly as big or refined.





gman-17 said:


> He doesn't look "trad" to your eye--fair enough. However the mistake you are making is creating this parallelism between trad and preppy and that is incorrect. Alden Indie boots may be "trad" but they certainly aren't "preppy." No true prep would be caught dead in them. Preps may only wear buttondown collared shirts, but trads have a wider venue. Again, it is this lack of nuance which creates the silliness. It is why someone can actually think that "trad" clothing may be equated to "wasp" clothing--again they aren't synonmous. I can only lead the shells to water . . . .


Trad and preppy were interchangeable terms on AAAC before this forum got separated and for a few years afterward. We had two long threads that tried to find differences between the two, but didn't. WASP is another word for the same thing. Forcing style into these categories is pointless, in my opinion.


----------



## AldenPyle

Cowtown said:


> This is the best thread on the forum. Thanks for your work AP>





Joe Beamish said:


> I'll second that. This is the ONLY thread.





The Rambler said:


> I love it, too. Welcome back, JB,


I appreciate the support. The thing is, clothes aside, the photographers from Life were really artists. Their work is very rich.

Speaking of red pants, where it all started, a fashion shoot in Bermuda 1953


----------



## AldenPyle

*Speaking of fashion shoots*

John Harkrider was an agent for male models. Here's a look at he and his stable. 1961 ca.


----------



## HalfLegend

Don't have any photos but has anyone else noticed that the shows on USA have been more and more fashion forward?


----------



## AldenPyle

Back to reality. Sargent Shriver, 1964


----------



## PeterW

AldenPyle said:


>


This guy has it going on!


----------



## AldenPyle

More Bob Taft Jr.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Reporters Covering George Romney Campaign 1968*


















In Alaska, I think


----------



## AldenPyle

Always reliable Ellsworth Bunker (w/ LBJ & Henry Lodge)


----------



## AldenPyle

Speaking of an old reliable, here's another Alden Pyle sartorial hero, Scott Carpenter, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles Percy


----------



## AldenPyle

Medical Students 1964


----------



## The Rambler

Carpenter is sharp as a razor, AP. Talk about a harmonious whole: ultra narrow lapels, (somehow 3/2), and tie, plain collar shirt, and, perfectly trim Sansabelts, no break, with cuffs. I don't suppose you'd call the haircut a flattop, but close. Both "trad" and "fashion" at once.


----------



## AldenPyle

The Rambler said:


> Carpenter is sharp as a razor, AP. Talk about a harmonious whole: ultra narrow lapels, (somehow 3/2), and tie, plain collar shirt, and, perfectly trim Sansabelts, no break, with cuffs. I don't suppose you'd call the haircut a flattop, but close. Both "trad" and "fashion" at once.


 Great shoes too.
Bob McNamara when head of World Bank


----------



## AldenPyle

CBS Executive Fred Friendly, 1967


----------



## AldenPyle

Have I posted this before?Oh, well. Attorney General William Rogers


----------



## AldenPyle

At some sort of show put on by Harvard Lampoon in April 1951


----------



## AldenPyle

Senator Joseph Clark of Pennsylvania at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee (Fulbright hearings, I think)








in, Rep. Clark in 1959 








Mayor (of Philadelphia) Clark in 1955


----------



## AldenPyle

Sen. Thruston Morton of Kentucky


----------



## AldenPyle

*HR Haldeman*


----------



## MDunle3199

AldenPyle said:


> At some sort of show put on by Harvard Lampoon in April 1951


Appropriate since you could throw a baseball from the building on the right in the 3rd pic and hit J. Press


----------



## AldenPyle

Frank White, Junketing American Businessman 1957


----------



## AldenPyle

1968 Republican Convention


----------



## AldenPyle

*Mitchell and Nixon*


----------



## AldenPyle

From 1952, at a party for a Newport-Bermuda yacht race at the Newport YC (I think):


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Arnold Palmer (meeting Roy Cohn) at the Patterson-Johansson fight


----------



## AldenPyle

Fans at fight, 1961 (including Johansson's wife)


----------



## Naval Gent

MDunle3199 said:


> Appropriate since you could throw a baseball from the building on the right in the 3rd pic and hit J. Press


I remember that building from being in Cambridge this summer. Was struck by the architecture and the heraldic decoration. What's it called? Harvard doesn't have fraternities, do they? Do they call these establishments clubs, eating houses, or what?

Scott


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Isn't that building called the Harvard Lampoon building? Perhaps it has a more official, fancier name, but the folks around Harvard Square I know have always called it the Lampoon building. It used to house a pretty good second-hand book shop, but I believe that the Lampoon folks wanted more space, and so kicked out the bookstore. In addition to hitting Press from there with a baseball, you could also hit the Andover Shop, which would actually be a slightly easier throw, I think.


----------



## Naval Gent

Sir Cingle said:


> ^Isn't that building called the Harvard Lampoon building? Perhaps it has a more official, fancier name, but the folks around Harvard Square I know have always called it the Lampoon building. It used to house a pretty good second-hand book shop, but I believe that the Lampoon folks wanted more space, and so kicked out the bookstore. In addition to hitting Press from there with a baseball, you could also hit the Andover Shop, which would actually be a slightly easier throw, I think.


I googled it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lampoon.jpg

You're dead on. Thanks,

Scott


----------



## Patrick06790

South Kent School, Kent, Conn. 1963


----------



## Patrick06790

Same school, year.


----------



## The Rambler

Wonderful pics, men: this thread kicks _Take Ivy_'s butt.


----------



## AldenPyle

Speaking of Take Ivy, here's some counter-programming: scenes from the Free Speech movement at Cal

















(Mario Savio v)


----------



## AldenPyle

Architect William Pereira
(Transamerica Pyramid)


----------



## Jovan

AP: Proof that not everyone who demonstrated back then was donning the stereotypical "hippie look." Movies often get this wrong, having everyone with long, unwashed hair and tie dye shirts by 1966.


----------



## AldenPyle

Juan Trippe, 1941








Is this the quintessential Brooks suit or what?


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> AP: Proof that not everyone who demonstrated back then was donning the stereotypical "hippie look." Movies often get this wrong, having everyone with long, unwashed hair and tie dye shirts by 1966.


An obvious touchstone is "The Graduate"


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> Juan Trippe, 1941
> Is this the quintessential Brooks suit or what?


Yes, and also the quintessential body of the successful and prosperous, that the sack fit so well. To me, the wonder is that it adapts so well to those rail-thin yankees who appear regularly in this thread.


----------



## Jovan

AldenPyle said:


> An obvious touchstone is "The Graduate"


 Well, I wouldn't say Ben Braddock was a hippie but a lot of them considered him a kindred spirit despite his preppy stylings. (Which I love.) IIRC, it was slightly criticised because the styles of the students weren't quite up to date, being based on the experiences of the author who wrote it years before.


----------



## AldenPyle

New IBM machine, 1955


----------



## closerlook

great suit.


----------



## GentlemanGeorge

AldenPyle said:


> Juan Trippe, 1941
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the quintessential Brooks suit or what?


But he's wearing it badly don't you think? He's buttoned the wrong button, and he could fit a floatation ring under waist of that jacket. The pictures from the '50s strike me the same way, but up top, the exaggerated shoulders and billowing arms just don't seem that satisfying in comparison to the later, more natural looks. With that said, it is clear where certain features of the style had their roots.


----------



## Cardinals5

AldenPyle said:


> Juan Trippe, 1941
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the quintessential Brooks suit or what?


Absolutely beautiful roll even if it's to the third button. Best part of the picture for me is that I've never seen anyone who wore TNSIL clothes press their sleeves to get the hard crease - I've seen it on Prince Charles and others, but never on a 3/2 sack.


----------



## AldenPyle

Kids learning "The Madison" 1960


----------



## Jovan

Great cutaway fronts on the guy holding the mic.


----------



## AldenPyle

Dig this collar roll. At Hotchkiss in 1954


----------



## AldenPyle

"I don't know what you are doing in those dungarees, young man, but we have standards here."


----------



## AldenPyle

*Probably 1967*

Charles Robb with Lynda Byrd Johnson


----------



## Doctor Damage

Penny loafers and button downs worn by Canada's previous prime minister.

https://img801.imageshack.us/i/paulmartin031676484artw.jpg/
https://img580.imageshack.us/i/51004282.jpg/
https://img138.imageshack.us/i/51002476.jpg/


----------



## Jovan

AP: That guy would look better if the lapel were rolled to the second button. Super-high three button coats are one of the things I _don't_ like from the '60s.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> AP: That guy would look better if the lapel were rolled to the second button. Super-high three button coats are one of the things I _don't_ like from the '60s.


 If you mean Sen. Robb, then I see your point though personally I like the look.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Hef!*

















Your assignment, Agent Pilgrim, is to infiltrate the campus and corrupt America's youth.


----------



## Jovan

Wait, he once wore something other than smoking robes?


----------



## AldenPyle

Janet Pilgrim at Dartmouth ca. 1958


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## randomdude

AldenPyle said:


> Charles Robb with Lynda Byrd Johnson


What a handsome young man he was. What's he doing now?


----------



## AldenPyle

Art Carney 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

*Mortimer Adler*


----------



## AldenPyle

Robert Hutchins


----------



## govteach51

Isn't Charles Robb now teaching law at George Mason?


----------



## CMDC

Ex Senator. Had a bit of a "massage/coke issue" the early 90s. Didn't keep him from beating Ollie North in '94. He always seemed perfectly cast to be a Senator but didn't have the charisma/gusto to take the next step.


----------



## AldenPyle

Darren McGavin and Tom Ewell in Joseph Fields play "Tunnel of Love"


----------



## AldenPyle

Cancer specialist Dr. Ernest L. Wynder. 1957


----------



## AldenPyle

Scenes from Salisbury, MD, 1963, deemed by Life Magazine to have an exemplary attitude toward integration.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## The Rambler

Can't bring myself to like the super skinny 60s tie, except the skinny bow, which I love.


----------



## AldenPyle

In the winter of 1962, the NY Newspaper Guild struck suspending printing at 9 Gotham newspapers
S.I. Newhouse, LI Press & Star Journal








Orvil Dryfoos, NY Times


----------



## AldenPyle

Bertram Powers International Typographical Union Local 6
















Walter Thayer, NY Herald Tribune


----------



## AldenPyle

Public Accountability Board








Strikers


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Batman, this is Commissioner Gordon...


----------



## AldenPyle

Steel executive Arthur Homer 1959


----------



## AldenPyle

Student Demonstrations at Harvard University 1969


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Jovan

Note how the best dressed ones are speaking. They knew they had to look "legit" to be taken seriously.


----------



## The Rambler

The guy making the V: Stephen Jay Gould?


----------



## Sir Cingle

Hey, that's a very good catch, Rambler. I think it looks a great deal like a young Stephen Jay Gould.


----------



## AldenPyle

The Rambler said:


> The guy making the V: Stephen Jay Gould?


 According to Wikipedia, Gould was a 28 year old assistant professor at Harvard in 1969, so it would fit. Good eye.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fashion Shoot Men in Straw Hats, 1958


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Jovan

For a fashion shoot, they have a surprising amount of wrinkles in their suits. Maybe it's just indicative of the shift in aesthetics -- all-natural un-doctored girls in Playboy and all-natural un-doctored pictures of suits.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> For a fashion shoot, they have a surprising amount of wrinkles in their suits. Maybe it's just indicative of the shift in aesthetics -- all-natural un-doctored girls in Playboy and all-natural un-doctored pictures of suits.


 Quaintly, in 1958 a story about a fashion trend was a story about a fashion trend, not particularly a thinly veiled advertorial constructed to present a product in the best light.


----------



## AldenPyle

*James Hester, President of NYU, 1958*


----------



## Jovan

Great suit on him. I wish they still made them in that cut.



AldenPyle said:


> Quaintly, in 1958 a story about a fashion trend was a story about a fashion trend, not particularly a thinly veiled advertorial constructed to present a product in the best light.


 Good point.


----------



## Cardinals5

AldenPyle said:


>


Love the swelled seams down the arm - I think I only have that detail on one or two jackets.


----------



## The Rambler

I don't believe I've ever seen, or noticed, such a thing, Cards: a feature of lightweight suits?


----------



## Cardinals5

The Rambler said:


> I don't believe I've ever seen, or noticed, such a thing, Cards: a feature of lightweight suits?


The feature is not particular to lightweight suits, I've only seen it on tweeds and such in the past, which is why this one caught my eye.

Here's a couple of swelled arm seams on my jackets - I also like how they terminate right at the cuff vent.

Hilton









Hilton









Mystery-maker


----------



## AldenPyle

Cardinals5 said:


> The feature is not particular to lightweight suits, I've only seen it on tweeds and such in the past, which is why this one caught my eye.
> 
> Here's a couple of swelled arm seams on my jackets - I also like how they terminate right at the cuff vent.
> 
> Hilton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hilton
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mystery-maker


Interesting. Never seen that before.


----------



## erbs

Nice tweeds


----------



## AldenPyle

Democratic National Convention 1968


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


>


The infamous Congressman Grayson??










Stephen Jay Gould's Doppleganger??


----------



## AldenPyle

*Scenes from the National Book Awards of 1958*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## katon

Have we done this one yet?



John Wesley Dean III during Watergate hearings circa 1973. Pinned collar, two-button sleeve, tortoiseshell frames... madder tie? It almost looks like that's a gray grosgrain strap on his watch, although I'm probably seeing things. :icon_smile: A fine mesh, then?


----------



## AldenPyle

katon said:


> Have we done this one yet?
> 
> 
> 
> John Wesley Dean III during Watergate hearings circa 1973. Pinned collar, two-button sleeve, tortoiseshell frames... madder tie? It almost looks like that's a gray grosgrain strap on his watch, although I'm probably seeing things. :icon_smile: A fine mesh, then?


Thats a good detail shot. Here is a full picture of the (sack) suit.

[https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?47669-American-Trad-men-(photos)...&p=1003984#post1003984


----------



## AldenPyle

Hank Miller, US Information Service officer, Laos, 1957


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> Hank Miller, US Information Service officer, Laos, 1957
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a picture!


----------



## gman-17

Brenda Sullivan - Tradliest man of the trad decade.

Then

Today


----------



## AldenPyle

Great pics!



gman-17 said:


> Brenda Sullivan - Tradliest man of the trad decade.
> 
> Then
> 
> Today


----------



## AldenPyle

Benny Goodman Tour of Russia, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Life Magazine photographer Allan Grant


----------



## AldenPyle

Ralph Ellison


AldenPyle said:


>


 James Jones


AldenPyle said:


>


 John Cheever and Robert Penn Warren (w/Cheever)


AldenPyle said:


>


The others I do not know


----------



## AldenPyle

*Ogden Nash*

1938








1961








1967


----------



## AldenPyle

*Slightly better picture of Ogden Nash, 1961*









w/ S.J Perelman


----------



## AldenPyle

S.J Perelman, 1961


----------



## AldenPyle

I think this has been posted before, but I think I haven't seen it in color.


----------



## AldenPyle

Another rerun, but this time in color
John O'Hara, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

*Phillip Roth, 1962*

Yet another rerun, but one of my favorites, and these are better photos I think.


----------



## The Rambler

Nice: there's that welted seam on the arm again, on a very warm looking tweed suit. Alluring coeds, so studious - any idea where?


----------



## AldenPyle

Don't know. Seems like either Princeton or Iowa City. "In 1960, Roth decided to teach at the Writer's Workshop at the University of Iowa and, two years later, became a writer-in-residence at Princeton University. He resigned to become a full-time author, but began teaching again at the State University of New York at Stony Brook in 1964 and at the University of Pennsylvania in 1969."

Here's another:


----------



## AldenPyle

Erskine Caldwell


----------



## AldenPyle

James Baldwin, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Some guy trying to sell Steve McQueen a tux in 1962


----------



## fiddler

This may very well have been posted before, but it's an enjoyable set of photos.

































Sophisticated youth.


----------



## AldenPyle

Cool. 
Fred Gwynne, 1963


----------



## Jovan

Fred Gwynne is a good candidate for a longer collar point and wider tie/lapels during that period.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Mort Caplin, Tax Lawyer 1963*


----------



## Cardinals5

AldenPyle said:


> Some guy trying to sell Steve McQueen a tux in 1962


McQueen and his Baracuta are probably discussed too often, but you can see it at the bottom of the picture in front of him (the distictive plaid lining)


----------



## CMDC

One does not sell Steve McQueen a tux. Steve McQueen decides that he is going to allow you the pleasure of having him buy a tux from you. :icon_smile:


----------



## Jovan

Oh dear. Is Steve McQueen going to become this forum's "Chuck Norris"? :icon_smile_big:


----------



## AldenPyle

Director of the Aspen Institute, Robert Craig, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Vince Edwards, 1962


----------



## Benson

AldenPyle said:


> The others I do not know


The first photo (man with beard looking amused by everyone) is Hemingway.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

1/2" CUFFS??


----------



## Benson

campuses changes so much, but I am inclined to think these were taken in Iowa City. A good deal of the campus slopes toward the river., particularly where there would be railings like those in the photos. However, Roth was only at the workshop as a visiting prof. and briefly (perhaps two years); it would surprise me if Time/Life would bother traveling there to profile him.

Thanks for posting all of these, AP.



AldenPyle said:


> Yet another rerun, but one of my favorites, and these are better photos I think.


----------



## Pgolden

I don't think it's Hemingway.


----------



## Benson

Pgolden said:


> I don't think it's Hemingway.


I think you are right. H was completely hoary by then. Good call. Anyone else think the man is Latino?


----------



## AldenPyle

Benson said:


> campuses changes so much, but I am inclined to think these were taken in Iowa City. A good deal of the campus slopes toward the river., particularly where there would be railings like those in the photos. However, Roth was only at the workshop as a visiting prof. and briefly (perhaps two years); it would surprise me if Time/Life would bother traveling there to profile him.
> 
> Thanks for posting all of these, AP.


Also, the number of young ladies in the pictures suggests a co-ed campus. Well, could be anywhere. Also, I agree, definitely not Hemingway. The older guy in the 3/2 and gingham check shirt is a writer named Ben Shahn. Probably most of the people in National Book Awards pics were quite prominent people in their day.


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Wasn't Ben Shahn an artist, not a writer? If I recall correctly, Woody Allen made a joke about him in *Annie Hall*.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Shahn


----------



## AldenPyle

Sir Cingle said:


> ^Wasn't Ben Shahn an artist, not a writer? If I recall correctly, Woody Allen made a joke about him in *Annie Hall*.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Shahn


 I stand corrected


----------



## AldenPyle

*Woody Allen 1967*


----------



## AldenPyle

Stockbroker Harold Bache, 1967


----------



## AldenPyle

*G+W Executive Charles Bludhorn 1966*


----------



## AldenPyle

Paramount Executive Robert Evans, 1966


----------



## ccl127

Who is he shaking hands with?


----------



## Bruce Wayne

AldenPyle said:


>


 _Barefoot in the Park_?


----------



## AldenPyle

ccl127 said:


> Who is he shaking hands with?


 Alan Lerner, the lyricist of My Fair Lady, etc.



Bruce Wayne said:


> _Barefoot in the Park_?


 Must be.


----------



## AldenPyle

NASA Engineer J.C. Houbolt 
1962
















1968


----------



## AldenPyle

*David Eisenhower*

1968


----------



## AldenPyle

Edward Cox 1968


----------



## ds23pallas

AP,

I don't know how/where you locate the pictures you post, but I very much appreciate your efforts. This is one of my favourite threads.


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> NASA Engineer J.C. Houbolt
> 1962
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While that's an otherwise beautiful jacket on a doubtlessly brilliant fellow, the vestigal 3d button on that 1962 3/2 doesn't really work with the ultra thin period lapel (imho).


----------



## AldenPyle

ds23pallas said:


> AP,
> 
> I don't know how/where you locate the pictures you post, but I very much appreciate your efforts. This is one of my favourite threads.


You learn a lot of social history going through those archives. Its fascinating, I think.



The Rambler said:


> AldenPyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> NASA Engineer J.C. Houbolt
> 1962
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While that's an otherwise beautiful jacket on a doubtlessly brilliant fellow, the vestigal 3d button on that 1962 3/2 doesn't really work with the ultra thin period lapel (imho).
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure why thin lapel is bad with 3/2.
Click to expand...


----------



## AldenPyle

*Ron Ziegler 1968*


----------



## AldenPyle

I think this is Dwight Chapin (L) and Herb Klein (R) with Ron Ziegler


----------



## AldenPyle

*Pat Buchanan, 1968*


----------



## AldenPyle

One more David Eisenhower


----------



## The Rambler

The Rambler said:


> Not sure why thin lapel is bad with 3/2.


Oh, well, not to be heretical, but it seems to come too close to the edge of the lapel: I mean I like it on NASA engineers, it really helps place the photo in a wonderfully aspirational American time, but it just doesn't look like great design to me.


----------



## Jovan

Speak for yourself. Looks fine to me.


----------



## AldenPyle

John Ehrlichman 1968


----------



## maximar

AldenPyle said:


> Paramount Executive Robert Evans, 1966


I am not a fan of side vents. But those tiny side vents on the guy on the right looks really cool.


----------



## AldenPyle

This must be John Tower (C) with unidentified Nixon aide and reporter








Nice to see a true blue suit.


----------



## The Rambler

Jovan said:


> Speak for yourself. Looks fine to me.


of course I was speaking for myself, Jovan.


----------



## AldenPyle

Unidentified Nixon campaign aides, 1968


----------



## PJC in NoVa

AldenPyle said:


> I'm not sure I would have gone with this shirt with that suit. Something in an ecru would probably have worked better. Otherwise... Solid!


I like the tab collar on the gent to the left; the tab naturally worked well with the skinny ties that were in fashion back then.


----------



## bd79cc

^Brightly-colored button down shirts were "in" mid- to late 1960s. No other sartorial style could include lion's tooth necklaces, Afros, and goatees with such aplomb as Trad.


----------



## AldenPyle

Yet one more David Eisenhower at San Clemente


----------



## AldenPyle

Check out the loafers and poplin suit on Henry Cabot Lodge (w/ RMN, Kissinger, and Robert Finch, maybe?)


----------



## AldenPyle

John Mitchell at San Clemente
















and on the campaign trail


----------



## Bruce Wayne

AldenPyle said:


> Paramount Executive Robert Evans, 1966


 Wow! Evans looks like he must have been one of the youngest Paramount executives ever! If I recall correctly, he had a crush on Ali MacGraw, and so got her the lead in "Love Story" (one of the trad-est movies in history). He married her shortly afterward.

Edit: I may be totally wrong on some of these details.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

fiddler said:


> This may very well have been posted before, but it's an enjoyable set of photos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sophisticated youth.


 God for bid there were any young men with asthma in that room...


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Bruce Wayne said:


> God for bid there were any young men with asthma in that room...


No one had asthma, ADD, sleep apnea or food alergies then as the smoke scared it out of their systems!!


----------



## AldenPyle

Ezzard Charles, 1957


----------



## Jovan

WouldaShoulda said:


> No one had asthma, ADD, sleep apnea or food alergies then as the smoke scared it out of their systems!!


 Every single one of those guys is smoking anyway. Logically, the solution is to stay out of the room!


----------



## fiddler

Governor of maine Sumner Sewall.


----------



## Jovan

It looks like he's wearing a trendy single button coat with the way the lapel rolls over.


----------



## The Rambler

[/QUOTE]

What are those men _doing ? _

Jovan, Gov. Sewell is sporting the classic 3 rolled to 1 look :icon_smile_big:


----------



## gman-17

I just ask that the trads who don't believe in a trouser break would take a nice look at those trousers. That looks like a full break to me.


----------



## AldenPyle

White House Press Secretary George Reedy, 1965


----------



## AldenPyle

John Chancellor, 1965


----------



## AldenPyle

Conservationist Bill Bronson, 1968


----------



## AldenPyle

The White House Press Corp, 1965


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

I think above is Rowland Evans, otherwise, I don't know.


----------



## The Rambler

I hope the current, seemingly ineluctable trend toward thinner ties brings the bow with it!


----------



## Joe Beamish

I like so many things about this thread, and these pictures. But above all, I like how unremarkable the clothes were -- it was simply the world in which they moved. 

How to look unremarkable today while in fact being "all dressed up" -- very difficult most places....


----------



## The Rambler

I agree, JB. My father, same age bracket, wore a Brooks suit to work, in DC, every day of his long and distinguished career. He never thought about it, as far as I could tell. He certainly never looked or acted "dressed up," let alone formal. He had a handful of ties, grenadine and striped ones, his shirts were white or blue, Brooks or Eagle.


----------



## Jovan

The Rambler said:


> I hope the current, seemingly ineluctable trend toward thinner ties brings the bow with it!


 It already has and you can see hipsters wearing bow ties here and there.


----------



## The Rambler

Well, I'm ready for it: about 10 years ago I picked up 4 or 5 square-cut skinny BB bows in a consignment shop, nwt from the 60s. Fortunately, at my age - yes, there are consolations - there is no chance of being mistaken for a hipster.


----------



## Jovan

Because of my hair style, clothing fit, and general deportment, no one can mistake me for being a hipster! A Mormon or Republican apparently (this is just what I've heard) but not a hipster.


----------



## Charles Saturn

The Rambler said:


> Well, I'm ready for it: about 10 years ago I picked up 4 or 5 square-cut skinny BB bows in a consignment shop, nwt from the 60s. Fortunately, at my age - yes, there are consolations - there is no chance of being mistaken for a hipster.


But maybe a Beat.


----------



## Joe Beamish

My next bow will definitely be one of those squared off John Glenn numbers...


----------



## EastVillageTrad

AldenPyle said:


> The White House Press Corp, 1965


These two are of the late, great Hugh Sidey.

Here is some satorial commentary from him:


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Shoot, I wear brown shoes with gray suits....


----------



## The Rambler

I remember a photo of Jimmy Carter wearing a doubleknit sportcoat with wide, wide lapels and an exaggerated houndstooth check, though I doubt he was exercising diplomacy at the time.


----------



## Joe Beamish

The Rambler said:


> I remember a photo of Jimmy Carter wearing a doubleknit sportcoat with wide, wide lapels and an exaggerated houndstooth check, though I doubt he was exercising diplomacy at the time.


He was exercising "diplomacy" in his heart


----------



## AldenPyle

EastVillageTrad said:


> These two are of the late, great Hugh Sidey.
> 
> Here is some satorial commentary from him:


Nice catch and link. I remember reading his column in Time when I was a kid.


----------



## AldenPyle

*John Swainson, 42nd Governor of Michigan*


----------



## AldenPyle

George Romney, 43rd Governor of Michigan, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

*Student Protestor, Stanford, CA, 1968*


----------



## Joe Beamish

That kid on his dad's shoulder was basically me. Same shirt, same age. And the guy in front with the tan sack looks great.

AP, I love you man (sniff!)


----------



## AldenPyle

Gerald Ford, 1968


----------



## AldenPyle

*Averell Harriman and Cyrus Vance*


----------



## AldenPyle

Jerry Lucas, 1961


----------



## Saltydog

If Ford had stuck with his buttondowns he might have won another term!


----------



## AldenPyle

More White House Press 1965


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Some TV reporters


----------



## AldenPyle

A few more


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Rep. Charles Weltner (D-GA) 1966


----------



## AldenPyle

Harriman, 1966


----------



## AldenPyle

Pollution of Great Lakes, 1968


----------



## AldenPyle

*NY Times Reporter Mclandish Philips, 1965*


----------



## The Rambler

pure pleasure to peruse: as always, thanks for posting, AP.


----------



## mcarthur

AP,
thank you for your outstanding efforts


----------



## Bermuda

Kennedy enjoying life


----------



## AldenPyle

mcarthur said:


> AP,
> thank you for your outstanding efforts





The Rambler said:


> pure pleasure to peruse: as always, thanks for posting, AP.


You learn a lot of history looking through this archive. 
The man in plaid is Merriman Smith, UPI, who invented the term _grassy knoll_


AldenPyle said:


> Robert Pierpoint, CBS
> 
> 
> AldenPyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some TV reporters
Click to expand...


----------



## AldenPyle

*Bill Moyers,*

1963








1965


----------



## The Rambler

I wonder if black glasses with a wide temple, such as Bill Moyers' or Barry Goldwater's will ever make a comeback?


----------



## mcarthur

The Rambler said:


> I wonder if black glasses with a wide temple, such as Bill Moyers' or Barry Goldwater's will ever make a comeback?


the pendulum will swing back


----------



## Ripley

The Rambler said:


> I wonder if black glasses with a wide temple, such as Bill Moyers' or Barry Goldwater's will ever make a comeback?


Chunky frames are popular right now with younger folks and those who many here might call hipsters.


----------



## AldenPyle

Scenes from a student election at Southern Illinois University, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Ripley

Sine you've ramped up your efforts (not that they were ever lacking) this thread has really become the greatest resource on the forum, AldenPyle. Great stuff.


----------



## AldenPyle

Ripley said:


> Sine you've ramped up your efforts (not that they were ever lacking) this thread has really become the greatest resource on the forum, AldenPyle. Great stuff.


Seems like they put up quite a few pictures recently.
I have no idea who or what this is, but it hits all the right notes. From 1960.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Mock Political Convention at Northwestern, 1960*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Don't worry, miss. I'm a doctor.


----------



## AldenPyle

Peoria, IL civic leaders, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Patrick Nugent w/ Luci Johnson
















From their wedding


----------



## AldenPyle

Linda with boyfriend George Hamilton


----------



## maximar

AP, 
Last week I visited some friends and they took a few group pictures with us. My wife said I kinda stand out because I was dressed very differently from our friends who like modern fitting clothes. I looked like I was cut from your forum and pasted on a future (now) pics. 

We appreciate your efforts. Thanks!


----------



## AldenPyle

maximar said:


> AP,
> Last week I visited some friends and they took a few group pictures with us. My wife said I kinda stand out because I was dressed very differently from our friends who like modern fitting clothes. I looked like I was cut from your forum and pasted on a future (now) pics.
> 
> We appreciate your efforts. Thanks!


Sounds great.
Sen. Thomas Kuchel (R-CA), 1964, I think


----------



## AldenPyle

Apparently, Gov. Herschel Loveless decided, at an advanced age to return to college at Grinnell. Dated 1960. Not sure


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Gov. Loveless lost a Senate election in 1960. This may have been a bit of a mid-life crisis.


----------



## AldenPyle

Orlando Wilson, Chicago Police Superintendent 1960


----------



## PJC in NoVa

The pics of Gov. Loveless remind me of the hilarious but poignant scene in "About Schmidt" when Jack Nicholson goes back to the haunts of his past only to find that his birthplace is now the site of a tire dealership. He then drops by his old KU frat, befriending his bemused undergrad "brothers" by pointing to a tiny image of his much younger self in a b&w photo that hangs on the wall among many others, unlooked-at in eons and gathering dust. Such is the way of all flesh.


----------



## Bermuda

George W. Bush signing his new book today....in what appears to be a tradly patterned sportcoat


----------



## AldenPyle

PJC in NoVa said:


> The pics of Gov. Loveless remind me of the hilarious but poignant scene in "About Schmidt" when Jack Nicholson goes back to the haunts of his past only to find that his birthplace is now the site of a tire dealership. He then drops by his old KU frat, befriending his bemused undergrad "brothers" by pointing to a tiny image of his much younger self in a b&w photo that hangs on the wall among many others, unlooked-at in eons and gathering dust. Such is the way of all flesh.


I should watch that. I loved Election
The Riteris twins, subjects of a path-breaking kidney transplant operation, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Always reliable Bob McNamara, 1965, I guess








Someone presenting with him, probably a DoD henchman


----------



## AldenPyle

Cardinals5 said:


> Lot of great pictures lately - thanks, AP! I particularly like suit fit on Terry Brennan - I wish I could get my suits to look like that.


Fortunately, he was as bad as a coach as he was sharp as a dresser.

Chester Bowles, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Averell Harriman, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Photographer at the Republican Convention, 1960


----------



## The Rambler

Superb manly style on Chester Bowles - simple handmade suit, dark knit tie, white bd: "set it and forget it."


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> Second city was 1961.
> Owner of a gogo bar serving a businessman's lunch. 1964


That's a MAN, Baby!!


----------



## AldenPyle

Reporters covering Ladybird Johnson ceremonially opening a Virginia reststop in 1965
































1964


----------



## AldenPyle

Bobby and Roy Wilkins of the NAACP, 1964


----------



## Doctor Damage

I started this thread back in February 2006, nearly six years ago, and I'm glad to see it keeps going from strength to strength. Good work, guys!

This photo was sent to me by a friend, but neither of us have any information about it. The image is titled "moon landing" and it's probably a bunch of office workers listening to the Moon landings on the radio visible at left. I think it's interesting because everyone looks to be in the 1960s but the guy in the centre reclining in the chair looks like he came out of the 1980s with that haircut and those shoes.

https://img29.imageshack.us/i/moonlanding.jpg/


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> I started this thread back in February 2006, nearly six years ago, and I'm glad to see it keeps going from strength to strength. Good work, guys!


 Everyone should definitely go to the top of this thread. Doctor Damage posted many of the best pictures there

Foy Kohler, US Ambassador to Russia, 1963


----------



## AldenPyle

Pictures from VP Johnson's office, 1963


----------



## AldenPyle

Psychiatrist Nathan Kline, 1960








Engineer Richard Clynes








They were working together to create a cyborg. Seriously.


----------



## AldenPyle

NY Judge Irving Kaufman, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Presidential Scholar Richard Neustadt, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

*Edward Hopper, 1963*

I posted this one before, but I don't think it was in color


----------



## The Rambler

^ It's particularly gratifying to see one of our greatest painters in perfect trad array.


----------



## Merganser

Markel has a spectacular tie, and that picture of Gomez Addams is, of course, nonpareil.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I'm eager to see the Hopper exhibit now showing at the Whitney. Will catch it after Thanksgiving weekend...


----------



## Jovan

Merganser said:


> Markel has a spectacular tie, and that picture of Gomez Addams is, of course, nonpareil.


 What picture of Gomez Addams?


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> I'm eager to see the Hopper exhibit now showing at the Whitney. Will catch it after Thanksgiving weekend...


 I saw a Hopper show at the National Gallery at the Smithsonian. It was well-done if the same. 


Jovan said:


> What picture of Gomez Addams?


 Page up


----------



## AldenPyle

John Walsh, Jackie Kennedy's OB/GYN


----------



## Bermuda

Norman Rockwell....the traddest painter of all time?


----------



## AldenPyle

Scoop Jackson and Harriman, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Defense Secretary Thomas Gates, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

New York Senator Kenneth Keating
1959, between Rocky and Jacob Javits








1960, after civil rights debate








1960, campaigning with Rocky








1963 at JFK's funeral








1965, after defeat by Bobby


----------



## AldenPyle

NY Mayor Robert Wagner 1960 w/ JFK and Herb Lehmen








in 1963








in 1962 with pollster Lou Harris


----------



## AldenPyle

Louis Harris, 1962








In 1969 with Life editor Bayard Hooper


----------



## AldenPyle

Life editor Bayard Hooper


----------



## AldenPyle

Dwight John and David Eisenhower, 1953


----------



## AldenPyle

Poitier and Belafonte, 1960


----------



## mcarthur

AldenPyle said:


> Dwight John and David Eisenhower, 1953


AP,
is the young man David Eisenhower who married Tricia Nixon?


----------



## AldenPyle

mcarthur said:


> AP,
> is the young man David Eisenhower who married Tricia Nixon?


The caption only specifies that the tall fellow in the plaid tie is John Eisenhower. Wikipedia says that John had one son and three daughters, so I infer that must be his son, David, who did marry Tricia Nixon.


----------



## AldenPyle

Scenes from a mock trial of the Alger Hiss case, held in 1960 by "unknown people at an unknown location" as the caption would have it.


----------



## Saltydog

Interesting apparent differences in the lengths of the button down collar points in the first and third pictures of the mock trial, no?


----------



## AldenPyle

Saltydog said:


> Interesting apparent differences in the lengths of the button down collar points in the first and third pictures of the mock trial, no?


 Indeed, I like the longer ones though. Couple more from the Hiss "trial".


----------



## mcarthur

AldenPyle said:


> Indeed, I like the longer ones though. Couple more from the Hiss "trial".


AP,
how about pictures of whittaker chambers?


----------



## The Rambler

Does anyone else find the mock-trial photos a little creepy?


----------



## Saltydog

^^^
Only the ones with the shorter collar points. But yeah, I know what you mean.


----------



## AldenPyle

mcarthur said:


> AP,
> how about pictures of whittaker chambers?


Not so trad, actually. Here is a good one of Hiss in 1951


----------



## AldenPyle

One more Hiss "trial"


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> Not so trad, actually. Here is a good one of Hiss in 1951


I've always felt that wearing a bracelet is untradly.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

^^^

The bracelet and the tie bar!!

Commies in the State Department have still not gone out of style however, they still hang out in Maryland and have swell yachts!!

https://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2012378260_cubaspy17.htmlhttps://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5546CA20090605?pageNumber=1


----------



## mcarthur

The Rambler said:


> I've always felt that wearing a bracelet is untradly.


hiss does not hid his face; whereas, the fbi agent covers his face


----------



## AldenPyle

mcarthur said:


> hiss does not hid his face; whereas, the fbi agent covers his face


Actually, that is not an FBI agent. It is some random petty crook who was cuffed to Hiss. I also meant that I could not find any pictures of Chambers in which he was dressing Trad.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jack Hanson - 1965 Owned a string of women's clothes shops that featured tight pants.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Hmm...1965 is looking pretty good


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Mom??


----------



## AldenPyle

Byron White, laying down the law in Montgomery, Al., 1961








At Justice in 1962


----------



## The Rambler

The Whizzer- my fellow fiji! The guy really knows how to wear a suit.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jonas Salk
1955


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> Jonas Salk
> 1955
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tie inspired by the diving horse act on the steel pier in Atlantic City?


----------



## mcarthur

AldenPyle said:


> Jonas Salk
> 1955


developer of the polio vaccine which conquered the polio disease


----------



## The Rambler

and played a very signficant role in launching a golden age of American innovation, which continues to this day!


----------



## eyedoc2180

The Rambler said:


> AldenPyle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jonas Salk
> 1955
> 
> Tie inspired by the diving horse act on the steel pier in Atlantic City?
> 
> 
> 
> Ooooooooo, good one. I missed the arrow on the first pass. As a little kid, I saw the horse act, pretty impressive!
Click to expand...


----------



## AldenPyle

Life photographer Bill Ray
In 1965, at the home of Gen. Victor Krulak,








and covering the Romney campaign in Alaska, 1967


----------



## AldenPyle

Matthau and Kelly, 1966


----------



## AldenPyle

A Tucson prosecutor, 1966


----------



## AldenPyle

Two middle aged American men at Normandy, France; June 1969


----------



## AldenPyle

Jonas Salk at an award ceremony for Presidential scholars, 1965








John Glenn at same ceremony








Scholar


----------



## Douglas Brisbane Gray

John Glenn with David McCallum above. Then in The Man from UNCLE now in NCIS.


----------



## Jovan

... huh?


----------



## The Rambler

TV shows: first from maybe the 60s, beatiful clothes worn by both stars. Was McCallum called Ilya Kouriakin or something?


----------



## AldenPyle

Douglas Brisbane Gray said:


> John Glenn with David McCallum above. Then in The Man from UNCLE now in NCIS.





The Rambler said:


> TV shows: first from maybe the 60s, beatiful clothes worn by both stars. Was McCallum called Ilya Kouriakin or something?


Wasn't sure if he counted, not being American. Didn't realize he was back on TV.


----------



## AldenPyle

UCLA Professor William Gerberding, 1964


----------



## AldenPyle

This is RFK on his last day as AG in 1964








I think with Byron White and Nicholas Katzenbach


----------



## AldenPyle

*1968*

Official photographer of LBJ Yoichi Okamoto


----------



## mcarthur

AldenPyle said:


> This is RFK on his last day as AG in 1964
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think with Byron White and Nicholas Katzenbach


i concur with your conclusion. bryon white later became a supreme court justice


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> Official photographer of LBJ Yoichi Okamoto


In my head I hear LBJ saying "I'm ready for a picture, will someone send in the Jap??"


----------



## AldenPyle

Rodman Rockefeller, 1959








Michael Rockefeller


----------



## AldenPyle

New York Labor Union activist, 1959


----------



## AldenPyle

Hal Holbrook, 1959


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> New York Labor Union activist, 1959


But is he trad? Reading this thread a person could get the idea that in 1959 everyone wore jacket and tie all the time: _and they did. _At least, most of the time, if they had any kind of whitecollar job, from teacher to salesman to president. That doesn't mean they were American Trad Men. This gent, for example: the striped tie looks not to be repp, but some sort of shiny stuff, and in not quite the right design; the tieclip, I'm not saying tieclips are necessarily untrad, but that one is; the shirt, a point collared Arrow-type broadcloth; the jacket, while a 3-button sack, seems chosen to not fit very well; the pipe, well, let's just say that it cancels out the garbage trucks.

I'm not saying the guy isn't a graduate of Yale, but his outfit suggests a humble man of the people, risen to a position of authority: which is, of course his job as a union activist.


----------



## AldenPyle

The Rambler said:


> But is he trad? Reading this thread a person could get the idea that in 1959 everyone wore jacket and tie all the time: _and they did. _At least, most of the time, if they had any kind of whitecollar job, from teacher to salesman to president. That doesn't mean they were American Trad Men. This gent, for example: the striped tie looks not to be repp, but some sort of shiny stuff, and in not quite the right design; the tieclip, I'm not saying tieclips are necessarily untrad, but that one is; the shirt, a point collared Arrow-type broadcloth; the jacket, while a 3-button sack, seems chosen to not fit very well; the pipe, well, let's just say that it cancels out the garbage trucks.
> 
> I'm not saying the guy isn't a graduate of Yale, but his outfit suggests a humble man of the people, risen to a position of authority: which is, of course his job as a union activist.


I take your point. The jacket is too long and I think you are right, if he was looking to pledge DKE he should probably choose a different tie (though, actually, the Rockefeller brothers ties are pretty questionable as well). Still, it's interesting to me to look at the different ways people wore a sack suit back then. Unfortunately, I have lost all desire to debate whether something is or isn't metaphysically trad.


----------



## AldenPyle

Some college kids pull a phone booth stunt, 1959


----------



## AldenPyle

Edward Hilgemeier (w/ lawyer). Blew the lid off the quiz show scandal.


----------



## AldenPyle

Auto parts exec William Nathan, 1958


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> I take your point. The jacket is too long and I think you are right, if he was looking to pledge DKE he should probably choose a different tie (though, actually, the Rockefeller brothers ties are pretty questionable as well). Still, it's interesting to me to look at the different ways people wore a sack suit back then. Unfortunately, I have lost all desire to debate whether something is or isn't metaphysically trad.


Just a point, not offered for debate: photo seemed like a good example of subtle class signals, a la 1959, while wearing nominally the same stuff.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> New York Labor Union activist, 1959


One man's "activist" is another man's kneecapper I always say!!


----------



## AldenPyle

Author and Princeton Professor Edmund Keeley 1958


----------



## AldenPyle

Author Arthur Roth


----------



## Cardinals5




----------



## dcjacobson

Cardinals5,
That first picture is Craig Stevens of Peter Gunn fame. What a great show. The photo was from a magazine (Life?) article about the new show. The "A" suits were custom made to fit him for "normal" scenes; the "B" suits were off-the-rack cheaper copies for fighting, or action, scenes. Maybe it was vice-versa.

Thanks,
Don


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Absolutely right - I was skimming Life for a different picture and saw the article on Peter Gunn and the suits for the show and liked the image.


----------



## Wisco

Cardinals5 said:


> ^^ Absolutely right - I was skimming Life for a different picture and saw the article on Peter Gunn and the suits for the show and liked the image.


As a former high school band participant, the theme to Peter Gun is still one of my favorite TV theme songs... up there with Hawaii 5-0, but I digress.


----------



## AldenPyle

The one in color are some DuPonts, I think. Maybe I put that one up in this thread, but its hard to remember.


----------



## AldenPyle

From the Nixon White House.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## The Rambler

The picture above John Erlichman is Moynihan sans bow?


----------



## AldenPyle

The Rambler said:


> The picture above John Erlichman is Moynihan sans bow?


 In order

1. Chuck Colson
2. Not Sure
3. Pretty Sure thats Jeb Magruder w/pipe

4. Dont Know
5. H.R.Haldeman
6 Magruder (is that w/ John Dean?)

7. Magruder
8. Moynihan
9. Erlichman

10. Ron Ziegler
11. Herb Klein
12. Is that Herb Stein projecting government spending to grow exponentially?


----------



## Joe Beamish

Moynihan et al, are rocking the slim fits (in today's lingo) and then some. Golly but those clothes are trim! Indie hipsters. Somebody should have pointed out that wearing baggies is better.


----------



## Jovan

Trip, are you trying to start a _riot_ here? :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Another DPM picture courtesy Per's excellent blog:


----------



## AldenPyle

McNamara kickin it in some longwings


----------



## AldenPyle

*Sweaters of Michigan*

Some pictures taken at Ann Arbor ca. 1960


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Etc.


----------



## mcarthur

AP,
thank you for posting the pictures. computer science class only males and the IBM computer taking up the entire room-how times have changed


----------



## CMDC

^Nudie pics on the wall...Trad or not trad???


----------



## Trip English

CMDC said:


> ^Nudie pics on the wall...Trad or not trad???


Way trad.


----------



## The Rambler

yeah, those guys walking around campus with reams of green and white striped paper, COBAL, who knew?


----------



## CMDC

AldenPyle said:


> Etc.


Trad guy looks on as Mr. Beatnik gets the girl.


----------



## AldenPyle

CMDC said:


> Trad guy looks on as Mr. Beatnik gets the girl.


 Ladies and gentleman, Mr. Alfred Eisenstaedt.


----------



## The Rambler

aha! they seemed particularly compelling, somehow.


----------



## AldenPyle

Mercury meets Gemini


----------



## AldenPyle

Alan Shepherd, 1959


----------



## WouldaShoulda

There was a Green Hornet mini-marathon on the other day. I suppose the renewed interest is a result of the movie...










Trad Vigilante!!


----------



## Bruce Wayne

WouldaShoulda said:


> There was a Green Hornet mini-marathon on the other day. I suppose the renewed interest is a result of the movie...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trad Vigilante!!


Nice! However, I see your trad vigilante and raise you mine. :biggrin2:

https://img442.imageshack.us/i/bruceanddickwallpaper.jpg/

https://img89.imageshack.us/i/brucewayneadamwest.png/

https://img163.imageshack.us/i/3243243.jpg/

https://img833.imageshack.us/i/1769023.jpg/

https://img412.imageshack.us/i/75545365.jpg/


----------



## WouldaShoulda

I feel Batman is much more Trad than Green Hornet if only for the Campiness.


----------



## Bruce Wayne

Very true. My point is also that Bruce Wayne is probably the WASP-iest comic book character ever created, and that's coming from a Jewish boy. Interestingly, Batman's creators were also Jewish. Also, from what I've heard, Bob Kane (nee Robert Kahn) and Ralph Lauren (nee Ralph Lifshitz) were somewhat similar in their origins and aspirations. In fact, Kane and Lauren even attended the same high school (though about two decades apart).

https://img210.imageshack.us/i/kanewithkeaton.jpg/


----------



## Douglas Brisbane Gray

I knew there was a picture of them all together.


----------



## AldenPyle

What people wore in NY in 1958


----------



## fiddler

Signing of North Atlantic Pact 1949

















(does it work now?)


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## CMDC

^+1

Excellent


----------



## Jovan

Can't see the picture.


fiddler said:


> Signing of North Atlantic Pact 1949


----------



## fiddler

Jovan said:


> Can't see the picture.


I tried editing, does it work now?


----------



## AldenPyle

Debutante and Date, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

GE Executive - Ralph Cordiner ca. 1958


----------



## AldenPyle

John Glenn ca. 1959


----------



## colonelk

One more in honor of the day:


----------



## AldenPyle

Scott Carpenter


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> Debutante and Date, 1962


Looks like the Geek finally got the girl!!


----------



## Jovan

Many women start to see sense in college. Though it helps if she's a geek, too.


----------



## Jovan

fiddler said:


> Signing of North Atlantic Pact 1949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (does it work now?)





fiddler said:


> I tried editing, does it work now?


 Yep, works now.


----------



## CMDC

Sargent Shriver died today. I was lucky enough to meet him in 1994. I've got a picture with him that I cherish. A truly great man.


----------



## AldenPyle

CMDC said:


> Sargent Shriver died today. I was lucky enough to meet him in 1994. I've got a picture with him that I cherish. A truly great man.


Definitely well turned out as well








A longish appreciation by his biographer 
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/01/the-good-works-of-sargent-shriver/69677/


----------



## AldenPyle

Kitchen of a French Restaurant, NYC, 1962


----------



## mcarthur

AldenPyle said:


> Kitchen of a French Restaurant, NYC, 1962


is it the kitchen of le cote basque


----------



## catside

Nice, is it still there?


----------



## mcarthur

catside said:


> Nice, is it still there?


unfortunately, is gone


----------



## AldenPyle

mcarthur said:


> unfortunately, is gone


Caption said Pavillou Restaurant


----------



## AldenPyle

Scott Carpenter, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## mcarthur

AldenPyle said:


> Caption said Pavillou Restaurant


thanks for the response
the name does not ring a bell


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

CMDC said:


> Sargent Shriver died today. I was lucky enough to meet him in 1994. I've got a picture with him that I cherish. A truly great man.


There's a quote attributed to him in TOPH (and elsewhere), while campaigning for McGovern at a miner's bar in West Virginia in 1972, "Beers for the house, Courvoisier for me."

I know a great number of people whose lives have been enriched beyond meassure by Head Start, the Peace Corp and the Special Olympics.

RIP


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## mcarthur

AldenPyle said:


>


who is it?


----------



## The Rambler

more Scott Crpenter, no? The more photos I see of the astronauts, the more I'm impressed by their style. And Carpenter was clearly not dressed by a p.r. team. No garment is tradlier than a flat top.


----------



## AldenPyle

mcarthur said:


> who is it?





The Rambler said:


> more Scott Crpenter, no? The more photos I see of the astronauts, the more I'm impressed by their style. And Carpenter was clearly not dressed by a p.r. team. No garment is tradlier than a flat top.


Indeed. Malcolm S. Carpenter, tradliest of the Mercury crew. Strange, but you almost never see an astronaut w/ a button-down.


----------



## AldenPyle

From a story on the refusal of the University of Alabama to admit a black student in 1956.


----------



## AldenPyle

Nobel Laureate Yang Chen Ning, 1963


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> Indeed. Malcolm S. Carpenter, tradliest of the Mercury crew. Strange, but you almost never see an astronaut w/ a button-down.


To wander off the point for a moment, "button" was a hugely loaded word in this period. There is a very brilliant book about this period called _Populuxe _by Thomas Hine (beautifully illustrated) which has a chapter called "Just Push a Button," which begins with a discussion of the new world of convenience opening up through domestic technology, which promised to free women from household drudgery through washers, blenders, etc. at the push of a button, and modulates into the deepest of cold war fears, nuclear annihilation, which could happen at any moment a superpower leader "pushes the button."


----------



## AldenPyle

Ray Nitschke, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Paul Hornung, 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Vince Lombardi


----------



## Joe Beamish

The Pack is Back!

Those pix remind me of Jerry Kramer's enjoyable books Instant Replay and Distant Replay. What a moment in time those few years were in so many respects. Really the sweet spot sartorially and...in so many other ways.


----------



## CMDC

Awesome Pack trad! Tomorrow, I think (hope) is going to be a very good day.


----------



## mcarthur

CMDC said:


> Awesome Pack trad! Tomorrow, I think (hope) is going to be a very good day.


+1 for cheeseheads


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL...maniacally!
No, no, no! Lovey(?), Jay Brian, et all., please don't fail us now. Go Bears!! :Thumbs-up:


----------



## Cowtown

CMDC said:


> Awesome Pack trad! Tomorrow, I think (hope) is going to be a very good day.


You are sadly mistaken. Go Bears!


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Wisco

Cowtown said:


> You are sadly mistaken. Go Bears!


There's no BEARS in SUPERBOWL.... he he he.

Actually another great read is the Lombardi bio by David Maraniss "When Pride Mattered". I recently heard an interview with Dan Lauria, currently playing Lombardi on Broadway in a play based on the book. He noted that men who played for Lombardi still break down in tears when they come to view the play.... 40 years after Lombardi's death. An amazing generation, Astronauts and men of the early NFL.


----------



## AldenPyle

Richard Fisher of Fisher-Pierce Boats, 1961


----------



## AldenPyle

Mike Wallace, 1957


----------



## AldenPyle

Republican candidate for Governor of Connecticut, John Lodge, 1950


















Ballot mate Prescott Bush

















Some voters


----------



## AldenPyle

Poet Paul Engle ca. 1961


----------



## AldenPyle

1963


----------



## AldenPyle

From a photo layout on a group of young(ish) San Francisco professionals who styled themselves the "Operators and Observers Club". The strange custom of these fellows was to find single young ladies, newly arrived to the city, and invite them to dinner with the group. 








(Note handy air raid shelter)


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Apparently, at least one intrepid, natural-shouldered chevalier might have occasioned to be so daring as to ask for the ladies company on a later evening. (Shell or not shell)
















(Chinatown!)
















Fancy. Sure hope she put out after he shelled out all that dough!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
LOL. I didn't think I would ever be the one saying this but, thank gawd dating rituals have evolved to a somewhat less convoluted process!


----------



## AldenPyle

Peace Corps at Stanford, 1961








(Dig the paisley sports coat)


----------



## The Rambler

Wonderful CA pics. That O&O club is strange, indeed. Beautiful girls at Stanford, an observation my son, a fairly recent grad, used to scorn, til he moved to MIT.


----------



## AldenPyle

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> LOL. I didn't think I would ever be the one saying this but, thank gawd dating rituals have evolved to a somewhat less convoluted process!





The Rambler said:


> Wonderful CA pics. That O&O club is strange, indeed.


Its a bit funny to read the article in life on the O&O club.
https://books.google.com/books?id=zkUEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA107&dq=operators+observers+1961&hl=en&ei=Q3w_Ta_BDozRccH6tO0B&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false


----------



## The Rambler

2d favorite line is the one about 'they must all be 25 or 30 and I won't remember their faces, all older men look the same to me,' but my favorite is 'there certainly isn't anything like this in Enid,' because I've been there, and it is indeed certainly true.


----------



## AldenPyle

Attorney (and McCarthy antagonist) Joseph Welch in 1959, on the set of _Anatomy of a Murder_


----------



## AldenPyle

Jimmy Stewart (w/ Welch in background) from _Anatomy_


----------



## AldenPyle

Failed Georgia Republican gubernatorial nominee, Howard Hollis "Bo" Callaway, 1966

























(Callaway won a plurality but not majority of votes against Democratic nominee Lester Maddox, but the latter was installed as Governor by the legislature under the state election laws of the time).


----------



## AldenPyle

Postmaster General Edward Day, 1961


----------



## AldenPyle

Ambassador to Japan Edwin O. Reischauer, 1961








w/ wife in 1962








and family in 1961








Preppy kid is Robert Reischauer, later head of Congressional Budget Office, below in 2000


----------



## Jovan

AldenPyle said:


> Failed Georgia Republican gubernatorial nominee, Howard Hollis "Bo" Callaway, 1966
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Callaway won a plurality but not majority of votes against Democratic nominee Lester Maddox, but the latter was installed as Governor by the legislature under the state election laws of the time).


 I liked it until this picture. It makes him look like a stereotypical NASA or IBM employee.


----------



## The Rambler

no half-sleeves allowed at IBM!


----------



## Jovan

I thought they wore them in the '60s before central A/C was standard. Perhaps I am wrong!


----------



## AldenPyle

Gerald Ford, 1966


----------



## AldenPyle

William Rogers


----------



## AldenPyle

Defense Department Aide Adam Yarmolinsky, 1962


----------



## Bermuda

George Will with Alan Greenspan


----------



## Bermuda

another of Will in a blue OCBD


----------



## Cowtown

Dean Acheson







Daniel Patrick Moynihan


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Head of research laboratory at Stine Seed, Thomas Wood, 1966 (standing). Talking with director of research at DuPont (seated)


----------



## maximar

I love those single buttons on the jacket sleeves. I normally don't like side vents, but those I like!


----------



## AldenPyle

maximar said:


> I love those single buttons on the jacket sleeves. I normally don't like side vents, but those I like!


The non-kissing buttons are cool. But dig the color. Nobody wears suits like this anymore.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Some sort of Fashion Shoot from 1961*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Cardinals5

AldenPyle said:


>


"White Elephant" emblematic?



AldenPyle said:


>


Fabulous suit - love the height of the top button hole and the volume to the roll of those lapels.


----------



## AldenPyle

Dressed by Grodin's


----------



## CLTesquire

AldenPyle said:


>


Lombardi is such a great example. I was thinking this when I watched the HBO special on the DVR last night.


----------



## CMDC

^If anyone comes across a tie clip like that, let me know.


----------



## AldenPyle

Stock Market 1958


----------



## AldenPyle

Industrialist and Civic Leader J. Irwin Miller. Here in 1960 as President of National Council of Churches


----------



## andcounting

maximar said:


> I love those single buttons on the jacket sleeves. I normally don't like side vents, but those I like!


Looking in the background...
Wait... low rise pants in this thread??? At least the loafers show through at the bottom. He would never survive on the WAYW thread with that undershirt showing.


----------



## Joe Beamish

He looks a lot like me, which is why i don't post pics.


----------



## AldenPyle

J. Irwin Miller in 1961


----------



## AldenPyle

Irwin Miller, 1967















(I've found my new WAYWN pose)


----------



## eagle2250

Great pics, AP but, I've got to say)), back in those days, the people I saw laying on the grass and reading, chatting, visiting with others, etc., were not wearing suits, bow ties and pocket squares!


----------



## tocqueville

Are wigs trad?



Bermuda said:


> another of Will in a blue OCBD


----------



## The Rambler

After 35 years on what you might call Wall Street, I loved the photos of the NYSE members, 1958. Working men - and there was a strong element of physical labor - in suits. In beautiful suits, some of them. A high % of bow ties, illustrating the practical value of the bow, which doesn't get in your way.

tocq, your comment triggered a literal lol :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Bermuda

Are you suggesting that Will has a hairpiece? Do you have proof of this? I'm crushed


----------



## Jovan

A side part does not necessarily indicate hairpiece or combover.


----------



## AldenPyle

Chicago art dealer Richard Feigen, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Leonard Soth, 1960


----------



## tocqueville

Oh, please. Look at the other picture of Will, the one with Greenspan. It is possible that what we see is the real deal, but there are not many men his age with such thick hair, even if what we see is a comb-over. And I'm not even addressing the hair color.

Have hair pieces been discussed on Ask Andy? I wouldn't mind reading a good defense of one.



Jovan said:


> A side part does not necessarily indicate hairpiece or combover.


----------



## AldenPyle

Hemingway, 1960


----------



## closerlook

^^^ wearing a skirt?


----------



## Jovan

Full cut shorts, but with how pressed (starched?) they are it almost looks like it. I don't like shorts with a crease, personally.


----------



## Saltydog

tocqueville said:


> Have hair pieces been discussed on Ask Andy? I wouldn't mind reading a good defense of one.


There is no defense with the exception of appearing in the movies or on TV with the best money can buy, for a specific part, and adjusted between takes for absolute perfection. I've never seen one in real life that didn't look fake. I say this as one with a now thinning, once thick and proud head of hair. If it goes...it goes. Sad--but not as sad as wearing a 'piece'.


----------



## Bermuda

Will's hair looks too imperfect for it to be a piece. I would wager that No he is Not wearing one


----------



## The Rambler

I love the scene in _The Sopranos_ where they cut Ralph's head off, then grab it by the hair to throw it in a garbage bag, and the wig comes off :drunken_smilie:


----------



## AldenPyle

closerlook said:


> ^^^ wearing a skirt?


 You are lucky Papa's not around to read that.



Saltydog said:


> There is no defense with the exception of appearing in the movies or on TV with the best money can buy, for a specific part, and adjusted between takes for absolute perfection. I've never seen one in real life that didn't look fake. I say this as one with a now thinning, once thick and proud head of hair. If it goes...it goes. Sad--but not as sad as wearing a 'piece'.


In Will's defense, he has made a career of playing "George Will" on TV. The floppy hair and the glasses are part of his talking heads brand. I don't blame him for sticking with them.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Homecoming, University of Wisconsin Madison, 1961*









(Note beer from Missouri, what a disgrace!)


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

*Homecoming, University of Wisconsin Madison, 1961*









(Note beer from Missouri, what a disgrace!)


----------



## AldenPyle

Here is Hemingway's loafers in color


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Jovan said:


> A side part does not necessarily indicate hairpiece or combover.


Real hair that looks fake is even more tragic!!


----------



## tocqueville

Hair that merely catches the eye and makes one wonder if its real or not is probably a bad thing.

The worse are hair implants. I saw a guy in a doctor's waiting room recently that had neat rows of hair plugs on the top of his head. Very agricultural. I can't imagine how he perceives the way he looks, for I found a) I had a hard time not looking, which means that his many interlocutors during the day probably similarly have to fight the temptation to glance at the top of his head and b) it made him seem pathetic. I mean, that had to have hurt, right? Could balding have been such a terrible thing that he'd be willing to go through with surgery? Ouch.

On another subject, Hemmingway's shorts look very strange. I guess the lesson is not to have one's shorts pressed and starched.



WouldaShoulda said:


> Real hair that looks fake is even more tragic!!


----------



## WouldaShoulda

tocqueville said:


> On another subject, Hemmingway's shorts look very strange. I guess the lesson is not to have one's shorts pressed and starched.


I'd sooner blow my brains out than wear those things... oops.


----------



## closerlook

AldenPyle said:


> You are lucky Papa's not around to read that.
> 
> I didn't actually think he was wearing a skirt; but if he had been, then more power to him.


----------



## AldenPyle

Henry Ford II, 1956


----------



## AldenPyle

Ford Execs


----------



## tocqueville

The fact that Ford execs are "trad" might have been a problem. Perhaps car execs need to be more "creative" types. Trendier.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

tocqueville said:


> The fact that Ford execs are "trad" might have been a problem. Perhaps car execs need to be more "creative" types. Trendier.


Are you suggesting the likes of Harley Earl, albeit a GM guy, lacked creativity and did so BECAUSE of how he dressed??


----------



## AldenPyle

tocqueville said:


> The fact that Ford execs are "trad" might have been a problem. Perhaps car execs need to be more "creative" types. Trendier.










:teacha:


----------



## The Rambler

+1 for argyles and feet on the desk.


----------



## Cowtown

+2 for guy flipping the bird in the picture under him.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Cowtown said:


> +2 for guy flipping the bird in the picture under him.


That's just a good luck sign!!



















(USS Pueblo)


----------



## AldenPyle

Stock Investors 1962


----------



## Pentheos

What this last set of photos makes me realize is that were any of these gentlemen to post photos of themselves in the WAYW thread, they'd be castigated for this or that shortcoming---on fit, especially. Look at how few are showing even a bit of shirt sleeve, and look how structured their shoulders are.


----------



## Jovan

Better to simply not show shirt sleeve instead of having a ridiculous excess of coat sleeve.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Pentheos said:


> Look at how few are showing even a bit of shirt sleeve, and look how structured their shoulders are.


I'd wager many are donning the dreaded short sleeves under their jackets!!


----------



## AldenPyle

Chuck Percy on the campaign trail, 1964


----------



## AldenPyle

Only Scott Carpenter and Ellsworth Bunker even come close to this guy.


----------



## AldenPyle

NY Sen. Kenneth Keating on the campaign trail, 1964


----------



## Saltydog

AldenPyle said:


> Leonard Soth, 1960


What happened to pipes? Don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting tobacco use in any form. However, cigar smoking turned into a huge fad years back and still has numerous practitioners. Pipes were once the stereotypical smoke of intellectionals, writers, academics and Huge Hefner. Years ago I even got into it for a while and really enjoyed collecting and learning about pipes, tobaccos and accessories. I loved the aroma. Hated the burned tongue and mouth. While all smoking is thankfully less popular...why in an age of "cigar bars" did the ultimate trad smoking instrument practically disappear? When's the last time you saw anyone fire up a pipe? Just curious if anyone has theories as to why?


----------



## Jovan

saltydog: Actually I see a number of indie/hipster types smoking pipes here in Gainesville, usually outside the coffee shop du jour.


----------



## Andy Roo

Saltydog said:


> What happened to pipes? Don't get me wrong, I'm not promoting tobacco use in any form. However, cigar smoking turned into a huge fad years back and still has numerous practitioners. Pipes were once the stereotypical smoke of intellectionals, writers, academics and Huge Hefner. Years ago I even got into it for a while and really enjoyed collecting and learning about pipes, tobaccos and accessories. I loved the aroma. Hated the burned tongue and mouth. While all smoking is thankfully less popular...why in an age of "cigar bars" did the ultimate trad smoking instrument practically disappear? When's the last time you saw anyone fire up a pipe? Just curious if anyone has theories as to why?


It's because smoking a pipe is too difficult. It takes many years of experience to consistently smoke a pipe without burning one's tongue and without letting the pipe go out after each puff, as it's dependent on a great many factors, including the particular pipe one's smoking, the type of tobacco, the moistness of that tobacco, the puffing cadence and velocity, the density to which one's packed his pipe, the completeness with which one has lit his pipe, the force with which one tamps his pipe, the weather, etc. I've been smoking pipes regularly for close to seven years now and I still can't keep mine lit for more than five minutes. But that's part of the charm, I think.

I do endorse tobacco use, in all forms, because in a society that's too reticent to do so, very few people are going to bother with the form that is the most difficult and the most wonderful.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
...and while you "endorse tobacco use, in all forms," do you allow any thought to the complicating medical considerations of such use? While attending college and participating in the ROTC program back in the 1960's, several of my ROTC friends took up smoking cigars and one (as I recall) was a wannabe(?) pipe smoker because I suppose, that was the popular thing to do. Two of these friends, after surviving multiple combat tours in Southeast Asia, subsequently had their lives cut short by cancer. My mother's and younger brother's lives were shortened by smoking. I suspect there are many in our midst, who have lost loved ones all too soon, as the result of the more wretched side effects of smoking. How sad and how unnecessary!

Rant off. Sorry!


----------



## AldenPyle

Sec. of Agriculture Claude Wickard, 1943


----------



## AldenPyle

*1960*


----------



## Joe Beamish

The guy at the microphone with the right angled right arm just looks perfect, perfect.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> The guy at the microphone with the right angled right arm just looks perfect, perfect.


Chuck Percy, one of my favorites. Much photographed in Life, even before he became a politician. I am old enough to remember the end days of his career. Still, alive apparently.


----------



## AldenPyle

*Prom Night at Disneyland, 1961*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Jovan

Sport coat on a water ride? That's brave.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> Sport coat on a water ride? That's brave.


 Matterhorn is not so bad, I think.


----------



## AldenPyle

David Bell, 1961, OMB Director


----------



## AldenPyle

Gardner McKay was a Cornell grad who was cast in 1959 (by Dominick Dunne) as a wandering yachtsman, sailing the South Pacific in a show called _Adventures in Paradise_. He shortly thereafter quit acting to become a sculptor and author.


----------



## AldenPyle

More Mckay








w/ Suzanne Pleshette


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> w/ Suzanne Pleshette


BOING!!


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Jameds Grant
fro Grant's interest rate observer


----------



## The Rambler

McKay is "too pretty by half."


----------



## The Rambler

Grant has a nice ivy look, but he's been so wrong for so long. "If you're going to predict, predict frequently," as we say in the business.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

The Rambler said:


> Grant has a nice ivy look, but he's been so wrong for so long. "If you're going to predict, predict frequently," as we say in the business.


I just liked how he was described on "Planet money" the other day.

Bow ties, Tortise frames, and office of mahoganey bookshelves, and a giant stuffed bear in the corner.


----------



## AldenPyle

The Rambler said:


> McKay is "too pretty by half."


James Thurber, 1945








1960


----------



## AldenPyle

van Doren family, 1959








Charles van Doren
























brother John
























father Mark


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Sister Mamie...


----------



## Joe Beamish

Slammin' photos, man. 

I want to look like McKay and write like Thurber, and surround myself with something extremely similar to Suzanne Pleshette.

This very thread will get us all there!


----------



## AldenPyle

David Susskind, 1959


----------



## AldenPyle

Jason Robards, 1959


----------



## AldenPyle

Danny Kaye, 1963


----------



## AldenPyle

Burt Lancaster, 1963, at the Freedom March in Washington D.C.








(w/ Harry Belafonte)








and some other guys


----------



## Cardinals5

AldenPyle said:


> (w/ Harry Belafonte)


Is Belafonte's suit a 1 button peak lapel? What's with the buttons on his sleeve - looks like they're on opposite sides of the vent. And, like his use of a paper clip as a tie clip.


----------



## AldenPyle

Only other good picture of the suit


----------



## AldenPyle

*1958*

While we're on the subject


----------



## Jovan

That must have been a pretty fashion forward suit in 1963.


----------



## AldenPyle

Maybe we could close out Black Hiistory Month with some shots from the March on Washington


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Adam Clayton Powell,

1956
















1960








1967


----------



## CMDC

Great shots of the March on Washington. Hadn't seen many color photos of that before so thanks for posting. Love the contrast between those in suits and the SNCC members in overalls.


----------



## The Rambler

wonderful black history month posts, AP. And Burt Lancaster, who I admire so much as an actor and movie star - I've never seen a picture of him apart from movies, so beautifully dressed!


----------



## AldenPyle

Governor of Michigan, George Romney and family, 1962 and 1963


----------



## AldenPyle

Young Willard was a preppy kid. On a political theme, here's some pollsters 
Lou Harris, 1968








George Gallup, 1938








and 1968








Elmo and Burns Roper (father and son), 1968


----------



## AldenPyle

As a bonus, some poll interviewess from 1968


----------



## AldenPyle

Los Angeles Lawyer, Grant Cooper, 1960








with client, murder defendant Bernard Finch

















(Finch was convicted of murdering his wife but only served 12 years and later resumed practice in Missouri).


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> Los Angeles Lawyer, Grant Cooper, 1960


Breif case, check.

Attache, check.

Man purse, NO F'N WAY!!


----------



## AldenPyle

Unidentified guys, 1961


----------



## AldenPyle

WouldaShoulda said:


> Breif case, check.
> 
> Attache, check.
> 
> Man purse, NO F'N WAY!!


 I do think I see some preppy bracelets, there though.


----------



## AldenPyle

Some color shots from various Big 10 campuses in the early 1950's. {Probably better for Big 10 nostalgia and purdy Midwestern girls than clothes}


----------



## CMDC

Third from the bottom is the University of Wisconsin Memorial Union. Looking toward the terrace from Lake Mendota. Distinctive chairs. Spent many an hour there. Wonderful place. They grill bratwurst out there on nice days and have a great beer selection inside in the Rathskeller. Makes studying difficult to say the least.


----------



## AldenPyle

CMDC said:


> Third from the bottom is the University of Wisconsin Memorial Union. Looking toward the terrace from Lake Mendota. Distinctive chairs. Spent many an hour there. Wonderful place. They grill bratwurst out there on nice days and have a great beer selection inside in the Rathskeller. Makes studying difficult to say the least.


 Yeah, I threw that one in for you. Its crazy they had exactly the same chairs 60 years ago. Went to the Rat last year for the first time in more than 10 years. Also, smelled exactly the same.


----------



## AldenPyle

Businessmen in 1946


----------



## AldenPyle

Time Inc. employees, 1947


----------



## AldenPyle

Taft Family of Cincinatti, In 1952, Life Magazine did a profile on one of the most important Republican families of the first half of the last century. 
https://books.google.com/books?id=C1YEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA110&dq=taft+1952&hl=en&ei=Y1p0TeWSIITCcYnh3fgC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false 
Here are some of the members.


----------



## AldenPyle

*More Taft, 1952*


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## The Rambler

Tafts are terrifically well-dressed. I like the one of Sr. with the bottom button only of his 3b done up, a look that I've heard called a no-no on the forum, but when well done is brilliantly insouciant, or sprezzy, or whatever.


----------



## AldenPyle

The Rambler said:


> Tafts are terrifically well-dressed. I like the one of Sr. with the bottom button only of his 3b done up, a look that I've heard called a no-no on the forum, but when well done is brilliantly insouciant, or sprezzy, or whatever.


 1952 is an interesting year with an array of pre-war styles on the older guys and the younger guys starting to take a more purist approach. Kind of like the difference in the way Linus (Bogart) and David (Holden) Larrabee dressed in _Sabrina_


----------



## AldenPyle

*NYC Councilman Ed Sadowsky, 1964*


----------



## AldenPyle

NJ Gov. Richard Hughes and Family, 1961


----------



## Wisco

CMDC said:


> Third from the bottom is the University of Wisconsin Memorial Union. Looking toward the terrace from Lake Mendota. Distinctive chairs. Spent many an hour there. Wonderful place. They grill bratwurst out there on nice days and have a great beer selection inside in the Rathskeller. Makes studying difficult to say the least.


Oh I am so craving a Brat and a Beer right now! It's only about 5 miles from where I am sitting to the Union. Maybe I'll go swing by and grab a Babcock Hall ice cream cone to tide me over until Spring... we got 5 inches of fresh snow this morning in Madison!


----------



## AldenPyle

Wisco said:


> Oh I am so craving a Brat and a Beer right now! It's only about 5 miles from where I am sitting to the Union. Maybe I'll go swing by and grab a Babcock Hall ice cream cone to tide me over until Spring... we got 5 inches of fresh snow this morning in Madison!


Orange Chocalate Chip?
Mike Nichols 1962 (w/ Elaine May at Birthday salute to JFK)








Mort Sahl (w/ some lady)


----------



## Rowdiefan

Not sure of this was covered somewhere in the previous pages - but at the risk of being reminded of the dreaded "Cosby Sweater" - I'd like to nominate the Dr. Huxtable and Theo from the first season of the Cosby Show. Our family has been watching the first season on Netflix together, and tradliness of some of their clothes is striking, and I guess it shows how timeless the style is, even in the 80's. No pics, so you'll have to take my word for it, or go watch!


----------



## AldenPyle

A tennis match in Newport, 1952


----------



## AldenPyle

Defense Secretary Neil H. McElroy, ca 1958


----------



## DCdave

AldenPyle said:


> Defense Secretary Neil H. McElroy, ca 1958


Nice roll on those collars!
:thumbs-up:


----------



## AldenPyle

DCdave said:


> Nice roll on those collars!
> :thumbs-up:


For you marketing mavens, apparently, Neil McElroy invented the concept of "brand management" as a young exec at P&G.


----------



## AldenPyle

City planner James Rouse, 1966


----------



## WouldaShoulda

^^^

Those are some serious goloshes!!


----------



## AldenPyle

Civic action against Forest Lawn, Los Angeles, 1961.


----------



## The Rambler

Holy _The Loved One_! What was that all about?


----------



## AldenPyle

The Rambler said:


> Holy _The Loved One_! What was that all about?


----------



## AldenPyle

*Donors to LA County Museum of Art, 1966*


----------



## Jovan

Top picture looks more like a 4/3 or 4/2!


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> Top picture looks more like a 4/3 or 4/2!


Good eye
Some heart specialists treating Eisenhower, 1955
Paul Dudley White
















Fred Stare


----------



## Jovan

Really want that last suit.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


>


Donor.

Really??

I'd be inclined to give it back.


----------



## maximar

Thanks Aldenpyle for sharing these pictures. I got my wife into it them too. It's clear that fashion designers today like Thom Browne probably stared at the same pictures while stoned then gave his rendition. Those were the times when men dressed like men and not boys or half girls or half ghoul. Even the way they sit or pose to take pictures looked highly respectable.


----------



## AldenPyle

WouldaShoulda said:


> Donor.
> 
> Really??
> 
> I'd be inclined to give it back.


You are right. Those statues are ugly. Love the Matisse though.



maximar said:


> Thanks Aldenpyle for sharing these pictures. I got my wife into it them too. It's clear that fashion designers today like Thom Browne probably stared at the same pictures while stoned then gave his rendition. Those were the times when men dressed like men and not boys or half girls or half ghoul. Even the way they sit or pose to take pictures looked highly respectable.


 I like the guys in suits over at their neighbors house to talk civic action. I've said before, that Thom Browne's suits are pretty much just copies of RFK ca. 1968.


----------



## AldenPyle

Actor Farley Granger, 1951


----------



## AldenPyle

Clients of a pioneering lady real estate agent, 1960


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Aren't those statues by Giacometti? If so, you may find them ugly, but they're certainly expensive--and, to art historians, important.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Si. They are Giacometti, and for me they are one of the symbols of high modernism of which I am a fan, sadly nostalgic for a world and a sensibility that I didn't even live through myself. And so they are not ugly to me.


----------



## The Rambler

+1. they are not intended to suggest potential girl friends, more like ex-girlfriends :biggrin2:


----------



## WouldaShoulda

The Rambler said:


> +1. they are not intended to suggest potential girl friends, more like ex-girlfriends :biggrin2:


If that were the case, they'd be as fat as their breasts are droopy!!

(Not a modern art-lover here, though nearly everything else about post war mid-century America I'm hep to)


----------



## AldenPyle

Sir Cingle said:


> ^Aren't those statues by Giacometti? If so, you may find them ugly, but they're certainly expensive--and, to art historians, important.


Probably those statues would go 8 figures now.



Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Si. They are Giacometti, and for me they are one of the symbols of high modernism of which I am a fan, sadly nostalgic for a world and a sensibility that I didn't even live through myself. And so they are not ugly to me.


 I used to have a pretentious quote from _The Emperor of Ice Cream_ as my signature tag, but I still think those are ugly.

Also, weirdly, Farley Granger just died. RIP.


----------



## AldenPyle

A White House reporter, 1965. I hope this is not a repeat.


----------



## P Hudson

AldenPyle said:


> Some heart specialists treating Eisenhower, 1955
> Paul Dudley White


Those shoes are spectacular. They look like AE Leeds with commando soles, which according to the rules shouldn't be worn with a suit. But then, few of us ride a bicycle in a suit these days.


----------



## The Rambler

^My late father-in-law's teacher, mentor, and colleague. That's the first picture I've ever seen of him, and it's not disappointing :icon_hailthee:


----------



## Jovan

Interesting how he binds his trouser cuffs around his leg. I wonder if getting snagged is a problem if you have narrower leg openings or a chain guard on the bicycle.

I used to roll my jeans up when I biked to high school. When it was cold, I'd wear my uncle's old combat boots and tuck them in before riding to school, then untuck them when I got there.


----------



## The Rambler

they get grease on them - clips are what my wife calls the "dare to be dorky" look!


----------



## St. Charles Ave.

Jovan said:


> Top picture looks more like a 4/3 or 4/2!


 Great catch--I just assumed it was a 3/2.


----------



## Jovan

From what I understand, they used to sell them for a time. There's details in one of AldenPyle's threads.


----------



## bandofoutsiders

I came across a few 4/3 jackets on my hunts. Two of them were bespoke by Chipp. Here is one: https://www.etsy.com/transaction/45595419

Interesting specimens to be sure. Not certain I would wear one though, and definitely not as a suit.


----------



## straw sandals

That is an amazing jacket. Absolutely beautiful.


----------



## AldenPyle

Stuart Symington, 1954









1960


----------



## AldenPyle

From a piece on Modern Design Homes, 1951, 








house


----------



## bandofoutsiders

AldenPyle said:


> Stuart Symington, 1954


A case for the buttondown with DB that isn't Fred Astaire.


----------



## AldenPyle

John Mellon, who was some sort of theologian/cleric. Date unknown


----------



## AldenPyle

Historian Henry Steele Commager, 1952








1955


----------



## AldenPyle

bandofoutsiders said:


> A case for the buttondown with DB that isn't Fred Astaire.


I guess more people on this forum would be in the "No DB period" camp than the "sometimes DB but never w/buttondown" camp. Probably someone should make the Trad DB case.


----------



## AldenPyle

Composer Douglas Stewart Moore 1952








and 1954









w/other Columbia professors (I think)


----------



## MDunle3199

Congrats Satch


----------



## C. Sharp

Is that Chipp jacket in cashmere?
You might remember that J. Press tried to bring the four button back in 1952. If interested scroll to fourth pg.



bandofoutsiders said:


> I came across a few 4/3 jackets on my hunts. Two of them were bespoke by Chipp. Here is one: https://www.etsy.com/transaction/45595419
> 
> Interesting specimens to be sure. Not certain I would wear one though, and definitely not as a suit.


----------



## AldenPyle

Columbia Engineering Professor John Dunning, 1952


----------



## dcjacobson

Officer Gannon almost always wore a 3-button jacket with repp tie:







And if Sgt. Friday wouldn't wear it, then neither will I. No cargo pants, flip-flops, or man-purses!


----------



## bandofoutsiders

AldenPyle said:


> I guess more people on this forum would be in the "No DB period" camp than the "sometimes DB but never w/buttondown" camp. Probably someone should make the Trad DB case.


I've seen great J.Press DB suits that are undarted and have great shoulders. Certainly undarted DB blazers were an Ivy thing, there are Chipp and Press ads that testify to this. Personally I like a DB suit with natural shoulders so I don't need too much convincing.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

dcjacobson said:


> And if Sgt. Friday wouldn't wear it, then neither will I. No cargo pants, flip-flops, or man-purses!


:icon_cheers:


----------



## Jovan

No offence, but Sgt. Friday doesn't seem like a very fun guy!


----------



## AldenPyle

bandofoutsiders said:


> I've seen great J.Press DB suits that are undarted and have great shoulders. Certainly undarted DB blazers were an Ivy thing, there are Chipp and Press ads that testify to this. Personally I like a DB suit with natural shoulders so I don't need too much convincing.


Intriguing, though I'm definitely not a DB guy.


----------



## AldenPyle

The search engine for the Life Archive isn't working too well. I don't think I have posted this picture of Galbraith before, but the roll is perfect enough to post twice in any case. 1961.


----------



## AldenPyle

Mathemeticians John Kemeny, 1962








Stanislaw Ulam









Claude Shannon


----------



## andy b.

AldenPyle said:


> Mathemeticians John Kemeny, 1962
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Claude Shannon


Are the sleeves on both of those jackets too long? I only ask because most of my sportcoats are long enough that only a small amount of shirt sleeve ever shows. I have the impression from reading this forum that you should have about 3/4-1" of shirt sleeve showing.

andy b.


----------



## The Rambler

Galbraith always superb. My favorite aphorism: "the market can remain irrational for longer than you can remain solvent."


----------



## AldenPyle

andy b. said:


> Are the sleeves on both of those jackets too long? I only ask because most of my sportcoats are long enough that only a small amount of shirt sleeve ever shows. I have the impression from reading this forum that you should have about 3/4-1" of shirt sleeve showing.
> 
> andy b.


Probably their jacket sleeves are a bit too long for my taste, but unless you wear cuff links, length visible cuff is likely to shift around during the day and from moment to moment.

BTW, if you ever see a mathematician dressed as well as Kemeny there, take a picture.


----------



## AldenPyle

Kingston Trio, 1959


----------



## Jovan

andy b. said:


> Are the sleeves on both of those jackets too long? I only ask because most of my sportcoats are long enough that only a small amount of shirt sleeve ever shows. I have the impression from reading this forum that you should have about 3/4-1" of shirt sleeve showing.
> 
> andy b.


I thought the "ideal" was more like quarter to half inch.


----------



## andy b.

Jovan said:


> I thought the "ideal" was more like quarter to half inch.


Thanks. Then I guess I'm not too bad. 1/4" is about all the sleeve I normally have showing. In the photo of John Kemeny I just assumed if he had any sleeves, they'd be showing in that position.

I was just wondering, that was all.

andy b.


----------



## AldenPyle

From a story on a kissing ban at University of Michigan, 1957


----------



## Jovan

Good luck enforcing that anywhere now. They can barely do it at high schools.


----------



## Jovan

andy b. said:


> Thanks. Then I guess I'm not too bad. 1/4" is about all the sleeve I normally have showing. In the photo of John Kemeny I just assumed if he had any sleeves, they'd be showing in that position.
> 
> I was just wondering, that was all.
> 
> andy b.


 He might be wearing short sleeves. It wasn't uncommon as far as I know.


----------



## AldenPyle

Stanley Kubrick, 1969


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> From a story on a kissing ban at University of Michigan, 1957


That tradly fellow's trou seem to have suddenly gotten very short.


----------



## Cardinals5

The Rambler said:


> That tradly fellow's trou seem to have suddenly gotten very short.


:icon_cheers:


----------



## AldenPyle

I don't think he can keep his hose up.


----------



## AldenPyle

Harvard Librarian's, 1957


----------



## AldenPyle

Here's Averell Harriman in a natural shoulder double breasted


----------



## AldenPyle

Merv Griffin, 1967, (w. Arthur Treacher)


----------



## AldenPyle

Johnny Carson, 1967 (w. James Brown)


----------



## AldenPyle

US Diplomat Wallace Stuart 1964


----------



## AldenPyle

John Lindsay 1966


----------



## AldenPyle

Kennedys with Chester Bowles


----------



## AldenPyle

Kingston Trio 1958


----------



## AldenPyle

Harvard Professor Raphael Demos 1957


----------



## AldenPyle

This is a nice picture of GHWB ca. 1968 w/ other Nixon hangers on.


----------



## AldenPyle

More Miami 1968


----------



## CMDC

Someone who makes a lot of appearances here, Julian Bond...


----------



## AldenPyle

*Van Cliburn 1955*


----------



## AldenPyle

Here's a picture of 3 professors in University of Iowa's arts college, 1961








Believe guy on left is Phillip Roth


----------



## AldenPyle

Some members of the Boston establishment, 1944


----------



## The Rambler

every single man wearing a 3 piece - the gravitas!


----------



## AldenPyle

Speaking of gravitas, Truman Capote 1959.


----------



## AldenPyle

Composers Samuel Barber and Gian Carlo Menotti, 1958


----------



## AldenPyle

Alexander Calder (w/ Menotti) 1958


----------



## AldenPyle

Novelist Allan Drury, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Some outtakes from the Tet offensive, taken either by Carl Mydans or Afred Eisenstaedt, 1968
















Guess the guy with the machine gun is Carl Mydans.


----------



## AldenPyle

More from University of Iowa's Arts Programs, 1961


----------



## AldenPyle

Not really trad, but Jimmy Demaret was a pioneer in introducing Go-to-Hell into the Pro Golf tour, 1950


----------



## AldenPyle

bonus Byron Nelson, 1945


----------



## AldenPyle

*William Scranton*










Perhaps no campaign for President of the United States has been so based on a combination of noblesse oblige and Ivy League style as the last minute 1964 attempt by William Warren Scranton, Governor of Pennsylvania, to snatch the Republican nomination from the hands of Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona. Scranton was the scion of the Yankee steel family that gave its name to the town. His relative youth, wit, and photogenic family caused Newsweek to refer to him as a "GOP Kennedy " (a GOP Kennedy, perhaps, preferring a highball and a good game of Parcheesi to a night spent seducing Marilyn Monroe or Judith Exner). The unexpected ruthlessness he showed in the 1962 gubernatorial battle caused Lyndon Johnson to describe him as "a character assassin, but &#8230; in a Brooks Brothers style. " Anointed "Squire Scranton " in a Life Magazine puff piece in February 1964, his personal modesty and uncertainty about Pres. Eisenhower's support kept him from declaring his candidacy until after Barry Goldwater had beaten Nelson Rockefeller in the California primary.


----------



## AldenPyle

Offended by his erstwhile friend Goldwater's no vote on the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Scranton agreed to lead a coalition of moderate and liberal Republicans in a last minute attempt to deny the nomination to the senator from Arizona.
































(ally Sen. Hugh Scott of Pennsylvania in dashing madras)


----------



## AldenPyle

Despite a flurry of last minute activity, his election team proved fairly inneffectual at the national level. Perhaps his style was a hindrance rather than a help. Comedian Dick Gregory famously described him as looking like ""the guy who runs to John Wayne for help." Norman Mailer described him so, "He had a fatal flaw to his style, he was just very slightly delicate the way, let us say, a young Madison Avenue executive will seem petulant next to the surly vigor of a president of a steel corporation. "


----------



## AldenPyle

Shots of his preppy campaign team and family








































(son was later Lt. Gov. of Pennsylvania).


----------



## AldenPyle

*Scranton at the Convention*










Losing ground at the critical Illinois Republican convention, Scranton went to the national convention in San Francisco knowing he needed to persuade committed Goldwater delegates to switch to him on the grounds that only he had any chance to beat Johnson. He almost immediately lost that battle by releasing a memo insinuating that Goldwater and his supporters were essentially crazy.


----------



## CMDC

Too much lounging on the hoods of cars, not enough door knocking!! That's no way to win an election.


----------



## AldenPyle

Too little, too late.


----------



## AldenPyle

An evocative description of Scranton supporters from Norman Mailer

_"Whereas the kids who were for Scranton were prep-school or country-day. Some of the boys were plump and merry, some were mildly executive, but they shared in common that slightly complacent air of success which is the only curse of the fraternity president or leader of the student council. They were keen, they tended to be smooth, they had a penchant for bow ties and they were the kind to drive Triumphs or Pontiac convertibles, while the Goldwater boys would be borrowing their father's Dodge Dart (except for the one in a hundred who was automotive in his genius and so had built a dragster to top out at one-six-five). Then there were the Scranton boys who were still the descendants of Holden Caulfield. Faces like theirs had been seen for Stevenson in '60 in L.A. against J.F.K., and faces like theirs might appear (one would hope) in '68 for still another, but for now they were for the nearest candidate with wit, class, and the born foreknowledge of defeat. Slim, slightly mournful, certainly acerb, and dubious of the fraternity presidents with whom they had made cause, the Holden Caulfields were out for Scranton, and looked a size overmatched by the girls who were for Scranton, good-looking most of them, slightly spoiled, saucy, full of peeves, junior debs doing their best to be cool and so wearing their hair long with a part down the center in such a way that the face, sexy, stripped of makeup (except for some sort of white libidinous wax on the lips) were half-concealed by a Gothic arch of falling tresses. Such were Scranton's parts, such were Goldwater's, as the children shaped up for the game. "_


----------



## CMDC

Whatever one may think of Mailer as a person, that's great political writing. Those pictures just ooze with that description. Also, Scranton's got the same look on his face in every picture.


----------



## AldenPyle

Hey, a quarter million page views, not bad! Kudos to DocDamage's creative genius and all contributors.


----------



## The Rambler

wonderful photo essay on the end of an era; that Mailer could write.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

...and that Miss Scranton is a hottie!!


----------



## The Rambler

AldenPyle said:


> Hey, a quarter million page views, not bad! Kudos to DocDamage's creative genius and all contributors.


Impressive, and kudos to you, AP. New posters should realize that, despite a certain irascibility of late, no one has done more for this forum than DocDamage.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I really wonder why I bother to visit other threads. 

As for Mailer's quote above, it's cloying and writerly and not all that hot. If you ask me, which you didn't


----------



## maximar

Such a wealth of info. 
This is what historians blindly missed: 

1. the hidden third button 
2. the missing darts on jackets 
3. most especially, (drumroll) the dying roll on OCBDs. 

How could they have missed such detail! :icon_smile_big:

Hats off to DocD, Aldenpyle, and all of you great contributors :aportnoy:


----------



## Joe Beamish

Playing tennis in an OCBD with rolled up sleeves really says it all about that wonderful shirt. 

Hookem does a nice job tapping into that good ivy look as evidenced by Scranton's son.

But I think my favorite look on this page is the guy in the light blue jacket standing to the right of the skirted lady behind the rope. Check the natural shoulders!


----------



## Jovan

I really love this thread. Brings you back to when dressing well wasn't necessarily rebellious, conservative, or "gay" -- it was just expected.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

^^^

Remarkably cogent of you, Jovan!!


----------



## Jovan

"Remarkably"... why, I'm usually not?


----------



## maximar

The era that was is when people go out of their way too look nice and polished. Today, people go out of their way to look like unkept. What a sad era ours is. I can hear Jay Walter's voice in the background.


----------



## The Rambler

Jovan said:


> "Remarkably"... why, I'm usually not?


tut, tut, young man, accept the compliment, remarkable cogency is a rare thing, no matter who's speaking.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

...but especially Jovan!!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Might I add that the male character in WouldaShoulda's avatar is dressed, oh so appropriatly...for his past two posts! LOL.


----------



## AldenPyle

Some Philadelphia rock fans from an apparently fruitless Payola investigation into Dick Clark, ca. 1958.


----------



## Jovan

Second guy down looks like a cartoon character.


----------



## The Rambler

That spit curl was favored, notably, at the time, by Bobby Rydell and, iirc, Superman.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

"When you're a Jet...."


----------



## St. Charles Ave.

AldenPyle said:


>


 Great photo. To think this was once considered athletic wear...


----------



## AldenPyle

St. Charles Ave. said:


> Great photo. To think this was once considered athletic wear...


Not really. I think Scranton was just a bit the middle-aged prep/dork. Here's some roughly contemporary pictures of tennis players at the White House
Bobby 









Bundy








Rostow








Maxwell Taylor


----------



## AldenPyle

Here's Dick Clark


----------



## Jovan

St. Charles Ave. said:


> Great photo. To think this was once considered athletic wear...


Maybe in the 1920s it would be. Though, I did successfully play badminton wearing shorts, sneakers, and an OCBD last summer...


----------



## St. Charles Ave.

AldenPyle said:


>


Three patch-pocket, 3/2 sack suit :aportnoy:


----------



## AldenPyle

A picture of Pat Boone's shoes








1959 w/ Ginger Rogers









Weirdly, there is a nude picture of a young Pat Boone in the shower in the Life Archives. I will spare you that though.


----------



## AldenPyle

You can buy this on EBAY for $35 or BO


----------



## AldenPyle

City College Prof. P.C. Li w/Wife, 1956








with Life reporter and novelist Willam Brinkley


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Dude, try not to drool on your tie!!


----------



## maximar

AldenPyle said:


> City College Prof. P.C. Li w/Wife, 1956





WouldaShoulda said:


> Dude, try not to drool on your tie!!


Jonesing for sashimi!


----------



## WouldaShoulda

I'm not saying I blame him, but jeeze, try not to make it so obvious. 

He's staring right into the Rising Sun!!


----------



## Joe Beamish

My respect for this board keeps dropping


----------



## AldenPyle

We could definitely be classier than that.


----------



## AldenPyle

Probably these have been seen before, but here are some shots from the New Haven line train, 1961


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## WouldaShoulda

Joe Beamish said:


> My respect for this board keeps dropping





AldenPyle said:


> We could definitely be classier than that.


I feel awful, just awful, participating in making Japanese cultural references about a Round Eye, feeling up an attractive, married, Chinese woman with his glare.

Just awful!!


----------



## Jovan

I think they were referring to the "sashimi" comment.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Jovan said:


> I think they were referring to the "sashimi" comment.


Exactly.

He's leering at her as if she were a Japanese fish delicacy.

(Even though she is Chinese)


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> Probably these have been seen before, but here are some shots from the New Haven line train, 1961


Is that Wally Cox?? (Left)


----------



## Joe Beamish

I'm referring to both of those witty posts: original and funny, they think they are, and amusing and deliciously naughty they think too, and interesting enough to require editing and refining after the fact, right Woulda? Honors Member.


----------



## Jovan

WouldaShoulda said:


> Exactly.
> 
> He's leering at her as if she were a Japanese fish delicacy.
> 
> (Even though she is Chinese)


 Er... I don't think that was his exact meaning.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Joe Beamish said:


> ...and interesting enough to require editing and refining after the fact, right Woulda? Honors Member.


Looking, learing, staring, glaring, just punching up the old vocabulary!!



Jovan said:


> Er... I don't think that was his exact meaning.


Don't get raunchy now!!


----------



## maximar

I meant fish (sashimi) and not nationality (Chinese or Japanese) . I guess that too is a little off.


----------



## AldenPyle

More Stanislaw Ulam, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Pat Nugent and Luci Johnson, 1965 about.


----------



## Jovan

Great suit. Trousers are a bit short though.

Interesting footwear on Stanislav Ulam.


----------



## closerlook

AldenPyle said:


> A picture of Pat Boone's shoes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unlined suede chukka on feet.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Jovan

When was that picture taken? Given that the lapels are a bit wider and straighter in shape, I'd say it's when he made his bid for president, but I'm not sure.


----------



## maximar

Are his shoes shell or not shell?


----------



## AldenPyle

Jovan said:


> When was that picture taken? Given that the lapels are a bit wider and straighter in shape, I'd say it's when he made his bid for president, but I'm not sure.


I think you are right. 1968.



maximar said:


> Are his shoes shell or not shell?


 I say Shell.


----------



## AldenPyle

Richard K. Mellon, 1946


----------



## AldenPyle

Thurgood Marshall & NAACP staff


----------



## AldenPyle

Sen. Stephen Young of Ohio, 1964








(I was surprised he was 76 at this time).


----------



## AldenPyle

Lend lease administrators ca. 1940, 
James W. Angell 








Mr. Gardiner








Mr. Shire








Mr. Easby








Mr. Hannigan








Mr. Tubby








Mr. Sherwood


----------



## AldenPyle

Richard Kleindienst as Deputy Attorney General in 1969








in 1964 at GOP convention


----------



## roman totale XVII

As always, the best thread on the Trad forum. Thank you AP.

Mr Shire jumped out at me somewhat. Seems to be modeling the prototype "ESPN presenter" look...


----------



## AldenPyle

Chief Adminstrator of the FAA, Najeeb Halaby, 1961
















The second is available in super high res here








Strangely, his daughter Lisa became Queen of Jordan.


----------



## AldenPyle

Cyrus Vance with Archbishop Makarios of Cyprus, 1967


----------



## AldenPyle

Herbert Lehman, Gov. of New York, 1943


----------



## AldenPyle

US Diplomats at a conference in Bangkok, Thailand, 1950
















































Philip Jessup


----------



## Joe Beamish

Marvelous.


----------



## AldenPyle

I'm sure I've posted this before, but summer repeats are an old tradition.

NYTimes reporter Mclandish Phillips, 1965


----------



## bd79cc

I like the dark suede shoes worn by the guy in the suit. A nice touch!


----------



## Jovan

Don't you ever step on his dark suede shoes.


----------



## AldenPyle

Some U.S. Senators, 1938


----------



## CMDC

^Great picture of Truman.


----------



## Trip English

I want that DB suit he's wearing.


----------



## The Rambler

Those Senatorial photos take me back to when I was a kid in DC, before air conditioning. Men wore seersucker, pincord and poplin suits in the beastly, swampy heat of summer.


----------



## Joe Beamish

The Rambler said:


> Those Senatorial photos take me back to when I was a kid in DC, before air conditioning. Men wore seersucker, pincord and poplin suits in the beastly, swampy heat of summer.


And they often carried a ukulele with them, and broke into song.


----------



## leisureclass

Agreed, I usually don't like DB suits, but these are amazing.


----------



## eagle2250

Joe Beamish said:


> And they often carried a ukulele with them, and broke into song.


These days they wear seersucker and pincords a lot less but, they still sing, LOL, most often before ethics committees and grand juries!


----------



## andy b.

AldenPyle said:


> Some U.S. Senators, 1938


I don't know who that Senator is, but I'm guessing there is no way he can button that jacket. :icon_smile_big:

andy b.


----------



## AldenPyle

Henry Luce w/ wife Clare in Hawaii, ca. 1938


----------



## AldenPyle

As a bonus, here are scenes from Hawaii's first elections after statehood, 1959


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

*First Congressional Delegation*

Sen. Hiram Fong , Sen. Oren Long, and Rep. Daniel Inouye (left to right, though actually Fong was the Republican).


----------



## CMDC

Great photos. Inouye has an amazing backstory. Tremendous valor in WWII fighting in Italy--hence the lost arm. Still in the Senate to this day.


----------



## The Rambler

I'm an admirer. Two nicknames that have accrued (must be sid in Texas or deep-South accent): Senator Aint-no-way, and Senator Annoy ya


----------



## AldenPyle

No anesthesia^. A real hero.


----------



## AldenPyle

More Hawaiian elections


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Mark Hatfield at a governors' conference in 1961








LBJ








Rocky








Some other guy


----------



## AldenPyle

*Hollywood Bonus*

Craig Stevens of Peter Gunn, 1959


----------



## AldenPyle

Plimpton


----------



## AldenPyle

Sidney Lumet w/ wife Gloria Vanderbilt, 1956


----------



## wce59

I really like the Craig Stevens photos, especially the last one with his arms folded.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

AldenPyle said:


> Plimpton


...with a bad Telly Savalas impersonator who just dropped a powdered doughnut in his lap.

I hope.


----------



## Charles Saturn

Hunter Thompson really let himself go.


----------



## PTB in San Diego

Charles Saturn said:


> Hunter Thompson really let himself go.


Indeed. He made a career of it.


----------



## AldenPyle

Life photographer and director (of _Shaft_!) Gordon Parks, 1958
















1968


----------



## AldenPyle

Weirdly Gordon Parks took the above pictures of the Lumet-Vanderbilt wedding party ..and had a long-term romantic relationship with Vanderbilt from the 1970s to his death in 2006.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Not bad for a Kansas dude


----------



## The Rambler

Almost no one smokes a pipe anymore, it's been literally years since I've seen someone smoking a pipe. Looking at that Gordon Parks photo has made me intensly miss pipe smoking.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Pipe tobacco has such a pleasant smell.

Cigarettes and cigars just stink.


----------



## AldenPyle

Warhol, 1981


----------



## AldenPyle

*Special NY Bonus*


----------



## Jovan

Wasn't Warhol an occasional Chipp customer?


----------



## rsmeyer

At least once, according to Paul Winston.


----------



## AldenPyle

Arthur Vanderbilt, 1940


----------



## AldenPyle

Harold Vanderbilt, (probably around 1940)


----------



## AldenPyle

Judges at an art exhibition, 1940
























John Sloan


----------



## Saltydog

The Rambler said:


> Almost no one smokes a pipe anymore, it's been literally years since I've seen someone smoking a pipe. Looking at that Gordon Parks photo has made me intensly miss pipe smoking.





WouldaShoulda said:


> Pipe tobacco has such a pleasant smell.
> 
> Cigarettes and cigars just stink.


I made a similar point not too long ago in a post that got zero response. As a former pipe aficionado I found it to be much more interesting, civilized and certainly more aromatic than the current cigar craze. I really don't understand that...except that it takes a lot more effort, patience and knowledge to become a connoisseur than just stopping by a "cigar bar" with the guys and buying the most expensive smoke you can afford. If you are talking "trad" pipes are definately the way to go--not that I condone the smoking of any kind of tobacco. Just saying...


----------



## straw sandals

I smoke a pipe, and have done so since college. It's relaxing, and the smell of pipe tobacco on my clothes doesn't bother my fiancee. Plus, I find that smoking a mild blend from a nice pipe doesn't burn my tongue like a cigar or cigarette.

If you're looking for a nice introduction to pipes, you should drop by the Owl Shop in New Haven. Joe still blends each of the house tobaccos himself, and sells a house brand of pipes. He's a good guy, and I smoke his Harkness Tower blend almost exclusively.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Hoping not to come off as a smarta** but, simply wishing to offer a very necessary counterpoint, while we're recommending locally based purveyors of essential services, could you recommend any New Haven based Otolaryngologists/Oncologists? :icon_scratch: Just hoping to provoke a bit of thoughtful consideration, before anyone makes any life altering decisions.


----------



## C. Sharp

A neophyte might be seduced into buying a pair of trousers completely inappropriate for there life style but I seriously doubt individuals reading this will make radical lifestyles changes unless they are predisposed to doing so. 
Here is a point to ponder 
"In a 2003 survey, the Department of Health and Human Services calculated that there are 1.6 million pipe smokers in America. The same survey revealed that there are 14.6 million pot smokers and 600,000 crack smokers, which means that if an American is smoking something in a pipe these days, it's more likely to be dope than Dunhill's Mixture 965."

Happy Fathers Day


----------



## Joe Beamish

This thread also contains pictures of people standing in direct sunlight. I would hate to influence the children reading this forum to go outside without taking precautions. 

And pictures of people consuming alcohol at parties. Did they operate vehicles afterward? 

What's next? People eating hamburgers and fries?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Not wishing to side tract the primary focus of this thread, but I did want to acknowledge Joe Bemish's obvious sense of social responsibility the comments offered above. Skin cancers are the most frequently diagnosed forms of cancer, clearly demonstrating the need for the use of sunscreens and in the good old US of A drunk drivers do manage to kill more people annually, than were sacrificed in the entirety of the Vietnam war. Thanks for the heads-up, Joe! 

I'll leave you now, to your pictures Joe and C Sharp.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ And don't forget obesity. Which you clearly seem to be overlooking. Huge cost drain medically.

No pix of:

-- smoking
-- standing in direct sunlight
-- booze
-- french fries

okay, all good


----------



## Mississippi Mud

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ And don't forget obesity. Which you clearly seem to be overlooking. Huge cost drain medically.
> 
> No pix of:
> 
> -- smoking
> -- standing in direct sunlight
> -- booze
> -- french fries
> 
> okay, all good


Well, I guess I can't post anymore: living in Mississippi is statistically dangerous!


----------



## eagle2250

Joe Beamish said:


> This thread also contains pictures of people standing in direct sunlight. I would hate to influence the children reading this forum to go outside without taking precautions.
> 
> And pictures of people consuming alcohol at parties. Did they operate vehicles afterward?
> 
> What's next? People eating hamburgers and fries?


If you could ease off on that hair trigger your sense of offense seems to be set on and actually read my post #2018, you might note that my comments did not reference any of the marvelous pictures posted herein, but rather to Straw Sandal's endorsement and recommendation of a specific tobacco vendor in New Haven. I offered a differing perspective to endorsing and promoting the more romantic and, perhaps, Tradly() nature of smoking. Last I heard differing perspectives are allowed around here. Should you hear otherwise, do let me know. Otherwise just try a little harder to grow up!


----------



## Joe Beamish

I'm sorry. I'll try to grow up now. Thanks.


----------



## AldenPyle

Artist Eldzier Cortor, 1949


----------



## AldenPyle

Artist Stuart Davis, 1947


----------



## AldenPyle

Some mathematicians, 1962


----------



## mjo_1

Great pics as always, AP. 

That woman (?) with the third mathematician sure looks like Don Knotts!


----------



## Corcovado

From article in NYT today:









MIT Professors Jerry Saltzer and Fernando J. Corbato, Tech Square, Cambridge, Mass., circa 1966


----------



## AldenPyle

Another Hollywood bonus


----------



## bd79cc

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Hoping not to come off as a smarta** but, simply wishing to offer a very necessary counterpoint, while we're recommending locally based purveyors of essential services, could you recommend any New Haven based Otolaryngologists/Oncologists? :icon_scratch: Just hoping to provoke a bit of thoughtful consideration, before anyone makes any life altering decisions.


There's a world-famous medical school and teaching hospital just off the Oak Street Connector, well within staggering distance of The Owl Shop!


----------



## AldenPyle

Engineers at Polaroid, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

NJ Sen. Clifford Case, 1954








1947


----------



## AldenPyle

Nixon at San Clemente


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Was a picture ever taken of Nixon, in which he actually looked comfortable/relaxed? Alas, he always comes off in rather a stiff, decidedly unnatural pose! Bit of a sad commentary on the man I think. :icon_scratch:


----------



## AldenPyle

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Was a picture ever taken of Nixon, in which he actually looked comfortable/relaxed? Alas, he always comes off in rather a stiff, decidedly unnatural pose! Bit of a sad commentary on the man I think. :icon_scratch:


 I noticed he was wearing tassel loafers. Shoes w/o laces contra Frost/Nixon


----------



## AldenPyle

Princeton physics instructor Eric Rogers, 1950


----------



## AldenPyle

Carl Wilson


----------



## sjk

AldenPyle said:


> Carl Wilson


I'm pretty sure that's Brian Wilson.


----------



## sjk

AldenPyle said:


> Some mathematicians, 1962


Kurt Godel, Austrian mathematician famous for his Incompleteness Theorem.


----------



## sjk

AldenPyle said:


> Some mathematicians, 1962


John Kemeny, computer scientist, inventor of the BASIC programming language, President of Dartmouth College.


----------



## AldenPyle

This is John Tukey of the Fast Fourier Transform










This is Stanislaw Ulam


----------



## AldenPyle

Statistician David Blackwell, probably 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

sjk said:


> I'm pretty sure that's Brian Wilson.


 I admit I was guessing, though I did look at quite a few bearded era Wilson brothers pics to try to figure it out and my best guess was Carl. I am kind of autistic about faces sometimes though.


----------



## AldenPyle

Claude Shannnon, 1951


----------



## AldenPyle

Life photographer Alfred Eisenstaedt, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Sen. Henry Jackson ca 1960








w/Harriman


----------



## AldenPyle

Thorton Wilder, late 1960s I think


----------



## AldenPyle

Picnic at Martha's Vineyard, 1975


----------



## AldenPyle

Federal Reserve official, 1962








Iowa banker, 1961


----------



## Jovan

Adam West in "Batman" (1966)


----------



## AldenPyle

"Comedy Debutante Party" Milwaukee 1954


----------



## PTB in San Diego

This has been my favorite thread on the trad forum ..... more?


----------



## SuitsTiesSocks

AldenPyle said:


> John Lindsay 1966


I like Mr. Lindsay's shoes and socks here!


----------



## SuitsTiesSocks

AldenPyle said:


> McNamara kickin it in some longwings


Nice dress socks on Mr. McNamara! Always nice to see these "feet up" pics!


----------



## SuitsTiesSocks

Jovan said:


> Adam West in "Batman" (1966)


Mr. West was very handsome as Bruce Wayne in the "Batman" shows of the '60s!


----------



## SuitsTiesSocks

Richard Van Vleet (Dr. Chuck Tyler) on "All My Children", circa 1981


----------



## AldenPyle

PTB in San Diego said:


> This has been my favorite thread on the trad forum ..... more?


 Been away on business. Now it is time for summer holiday.

Some Harvard kid in Bermuda from the early 50's.


----------



## SuitsTiesSocks

*Trad Men*

John James on "Dynasty", circa 1981


----------



## AldenPyle

Max Levine of Foley's Dept. Store, Houston, 1958


----------



## AldenPyle

The Amazing Randi, 1957


----------



## WouldaShoulda

WOW!!

I had no idea Randi's act had been around that long!!


----------



## jcparke

*Malcolm X*

From today's NYT

https://graphics8.nytimes.com/image...110723-malcolmxA/20110723-malcolmxA-popup.jpg


----------



## SuitsTiesSocks

Lloyd Bochner as Cecil Colby on "Dynasty", circa 1981


----------



## AldenPyle

White House Budget Director 1961


----------



## Joe Beamish

That's a generous, luxurious, comfy cut on that budget director. A good sackish look.


----------



## Jovan

I think the suit's too big for him. Look at the shoulders and length. Much too big for the typical late '50s, early '60s cut.


----------



## jwooten

Jovan: I think the issue may be that it's a tall and thin man.

Specifically, that is David E. Bell ( I looked it up because the suit looks off). And per wiki Bell was notably tall and thin .Seems like a pretty interesting man. The picture of the family gives a pretty good perspective of his size.


----------



## bd79cc

Joe Beamish said:


> That's a generous, luxurious, comfy cut on that budget director. A good sackish look.


The way Budget Director Bell wore his clothes is much more flattering, comfortable, and useful than what's suggested by, say, Thom Browne or The Sartorialist.


----------



## Wisco

jwooten said:


> Jovan: I think the issue may be that it's a tall and thin man.
> 
> Specifically, that is David E. Bell ( I looked it up because the suit looks off). And per wiki Bell was notably tall and thin .Seems like a pretty interesting man. The picture of the family gives a pretty good perspective of his size.


You are correct that he is tall and thin, but Jovan is also correct that the jacket is simply too big for him. Look at the fall of the jacket from his shoulder. It is at least an inch or more wider than it should be. Otherwise, a true sack look.


----------



## Wisco

AldenPyle said:


> "Comedy Debutante Party" Milwaukee 1954


I want to be this guy.....:wink2:


----------



## Corcovado

Wisco said:


> You are correct that he is tall and thin, but Jovan is also correct that the jacket is simply too big for him. Look at the fall of the jacket from his shoulder. It is at least an inch or more wider than it should be. Otherwise, a true sack look.


I agree. He looks frumpy. But he could sing lead for Talking Heads.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

I understand Mr. Bell was a very robust man.

But we worried himself to a shadow of what he once was due to the overbearing National Debt of $180,000.00 at the time.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Point taken, Jovan. Still there's a nice woolen look to the chap -- a draping and richness I found attractive. 

Or maybe it's the smile on his mug, to Woulda's point! Halcyon days....


----------



## AldenPyle

Physicist Isidor Rabi, 1957


----------



## AldenPyle

Everyone wishes they were Ted Sorenson.. Hell, even I wish I was Ted Sorenson


----------



## AldenPyle

MIT Electrical Engineering Professor Jerome Wiesner, 1957


----------



## AldenPyle

Life at an Apartment for "Singles", Torrance, California 1967


----------



## CMDC

A bikini clad woman ironing your ocbd...

There are no words.


----------



## Jovan

It's the 21st century. Real men can iron their own clothes.


----------



## AldenPyle

Life photographers
Joe Scherschal








Gene Tenney








Stan Wayman


----------



## eagle2250

Jovan said:


> It's the 21st century. Real men can iron their own clothes.


ROFALOL. Indeed, real men can iron their own OCBDs, but we don't have to do so. There is always a (scantilyly clad, we hope!) beauty hanging around to perform those menial tasks for us! 

PS: Should this prove to be my final post, feel free to assume the wife happened to read this post and....the eagles legs (and fingers!!) have been broken! :crazy:


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Jovan said:


> It's the 21st century. Real men can iron their own clothes.


And you call that "progress??"

HA!!


----------



## WouldaShoulda

CMDC said:


> A bikini clad woman ironing your ocbd...
> 
> There are no words.


...and buckets of Coors tall-boys!!


----------



## Jovan

WouldaShoulda said:


> And you call that "progress??"
> 
> HA!!


 Yes, yes I do.


----------



## AldenPyle

University of Michigan early 1960s


----------



## AldenPyle

Broadway actor Russell Nype, 1951
















(w/ fellow Tony Award winner Isabel Bigley)


----------



## AldenPyle

ATM Regular Mark O. Hatfield, RIP


----------



## AldenPyle

Baseball player/tech exec Jack Shepard, 1955


----------



## AldenPyle

IBM Exec Robert Fairbank, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

Thomas Watson, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

IBM staff, 1962


----------



## AldenPyle

David Wayne from Say Darling


----------



## maximar

AldenPyle said:


> David Wayne from Say Darling


He is wearing a BB shirt, cool.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

^^^

Does it appear a chunk has been taken out of her robo-like Stepford wife arm there??

Creepy!! 

I hope my relationship never deteriorates to the point of me bringing work into the boudoir!!


----------



## Jovan

Probably a chunk taken out of the photo which was scanned.


----------



## AldenPyle

US Ambassador to Cuba, Phillip Bonsal, 1959


----------



## AldenPyle

S







[/URL]


----------



## AldenPyle

Above is Sen. Claiborne Pell, 1969. Below is Pell in 1961


----------



## 127.72 MHz

^^ And in spite of coming from a background of privilege he was a very unpretentious and frugal guy. He died in 2009 at the age of 90.
If you're interested it's a pretty interesting WiKi search to read about him.


----------



## AldenPyle

CIA Spy Clair George, RIP


----------



## AldenPyle

John Hersey, 1945


----------



## AldenPyle

Cool photoessay on John Updike
https://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/node/193849


----------



## Fashionguy88

What dapper gentlemen! I wish everyone would dress like this nowadays


----------



## andcounting

Those shoulders look like a sweater!



AldenPyle said:


> John Hersey, 1945


----------



## Jovan

Not sure if that's an entirely good thing. A natural shoulder is fine, but the _sleevehead_ should have a little substance to it.


----------



## AldenPyle

All time American Trad Men Favorite, Sen. Charles Percy, RIP


https://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/cecb2797bfdde899_large
https://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/cecb2797bfdde899_large]







[/URL]


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## 127.72 MHz

Jovan said:


> Not sure if that's an entirely good thing. A natural shoulder is fine, but the _sleevehead_ should have a little substance to it.


It's a point in time young man, just a point in time. Remember, not everyone is as fastidious in terms of they way they put themselves together as most members of AAAC.


----------



## Doctor Damage

GHWB at Kennebunkport, 1980. Note the straight leg chinos, coloured belt, and especially the long-vamp boat shoes.

https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/28/1512602bushkennebunkpor.jpg/https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/1512605bushkennebunkpor.jpg/
https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/782255bushkennebunkport.jpg/

Here he is again in 1988, trying to tip over his limo!

https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/53365592bush1988.jpg/


----------



## Beastmode101

I'm going through this thread and looking at all these pictures right now. Good stuff.

Posting some John Updike photos (I ran a search and I don't believe these photos are on here)

the first photo of a simple crew neck with a button down and some khaki chinos is my go to stuff during the winter and fall.


----------



## randomdude

^ If you like this you should read AldenPyle's Tumblr, it's amazing. I check it every day.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Is that where he is posting pics now? I've missed 'em here. Better get myself over to Tumblr.


----------



## Jovan

Tumblr: Not just for hipsters anymore.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I apologize if these are already in here or if I posted hem somewhere else before. I am sure that some are new.

The DuPonts


----------



## oxford cloth button down

The Lowells



















Cabot -Jacksons


----------



## oxford cloth button down

the Buckleys


----------



## oxford cloth button down

From Wittenberg University 1967


----------



## AldenPyle

Rep. Tom Petri, R-WI


----------



## Balfour

Great images, AldenPyle and OCBD. Thanks for posting. I can't quite manage "trad" in London, but would adopt an English version of it if I were an academic at my alma mater as opposed to a practising lawyer.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Donald Osborne co-host of "What's My Car Worth" on Velocity has stepped up his game this season, I couldn't find any of his better looks but this gives you an idea...


----------



## AldenPyle

ht


----------



## ColonialBoy

AldenPyle said:


> This is John Tukey of the Fast Fourier Transform





AldenPyle said:


> IBM Exec Robert Fairbank, 1962


Wondered why they had a Fourier transform on the blackboard. The entire digital music industry is based on it.

As a math graduate, a lot of what was considered high end math in the 1960s is now taught in high school.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## indieprep

Although not american(he was italian), my grandfather was quite a trad in style (having lived his life between Italy, USA and Brazil). A pic of him in the late 50s or early 60s.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

A few from 1958 at Wittenberg University. There are a few more on my blog if you are interested.

















That is one nice part and haircut.


----------



## AldenPyle

nevermind


----------



## oxford cloth button down




----------



## AldenPyle

Great pics, ocbd, keep'em coming.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

More Bobby Kennedy. Please forgive me if too many of these are featured in this thread already. I am sure the one with whom I believe to be his children, but i wanted to focus on their outfits as well. This is by far one of my favorite thread, btw.

AP - Thanks so much. You provide a lot of inspiration with your contributions.









Picture included for context.









Now those are some trad kids.









Booby with Roy Wilkins.









Love the tie, it is simply classic.


----------



## Doctor Damage

LOOK Magazine, June 25 1968.


----------



## CMDC

R.I.P.

One of the greats. I was lucky enough to meet him once, after he had left the Senate. I used part of his memoirs in one of my classes so it was nice to talk with him about that. We need more like him in Congress. Someone who was willing to call BS wherever it came from but could still get things done. Also, bonus trad points for being the main sponsor of another modern trad icon, in my mind, David Souter.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

RFK with Thurgood Marshall (center) and NY Senator(R) Jacob Javits (left).










Leading Massachusetts Democrats, and an invited out-of-stater, Sen. Robert F. Kennedy

Check out the shoulders on House Speaker Juhn McCormack's jacket. Now that is soft!

Left to right: Sen. Robert F. Kennedy; Edward McCormack; Sen. Edward Kennedy; and House Speaker John McCormack.

1966


----------



## oxford cloth button down

JFK with Nixon


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Andy Griffith and Don Knotts


----------



## oxford cloth button down

John Kerry (student) with Vice President Hubert Humphrey at Yale
October 21, 1965


----------



## coase

Despite these pics already being selected for "trad"-liness, I am struck by how many of them show men with sleeves showing no cuff at all. Whether Wittenberg U to the politicians. The last shot of Robert Kennedy (with other Dems) shows him with sleeves that are as long as Nixon's. But Kennedy's color photo seems more in line with igent "trad." Is this the part of the "classic" dress that inevitably varies with fashion (even as core styles remain similar)? I notice we had the reverse shift from the late 90s (mostly no cuff showing and much longer sleeves) to the recent past with shorter sleeves and 1/4 to 1/2 inch of cuff showing.


----------



## CMDC

Surprised that Ted Kennedy and Edward McCormick are both smiling in that picture. They had a nasty primary against each other in '62 when Teddy first got elected to the Senate. Famous debate when McCormick went after Kennedy as a beneficiary of nepotism--"Edward Moore" quote. Ironic given his own family ties.


----------



## Doctor Damage

I posted this image in the bit loafer thread, but I doubt many people read it. What movie is this image from? Topsider says either _Talented Mr Ripley_ or _School Ties_. I have no idea myself.


----------



## Jovan

coase said:


> Despite these pics already being selected for "trad"-liness, I am struck by how many of them show men with sleeves showing no cuff at all. Whether Wittenberg U to the politicians. The last shot of Robert Kennedy (with other Dems) shows him with sleeves that are as long as Nixon's. But Kennedy's color photo seems more in line with igent "trad." Is this the part of the "classic" dress that inevitably varies with fashion (even as core styles remain similar)? I notice we had the reverse shift from the late 90s (mostly no cuff showing and much longer sleeves) to the recent past with shorter sleeves and 1/4 to 1/2 inch of cuff showing.


I haven't noticed that on politicians as of late. Last I checked they still were mostly clueless. But well dressed men have always showed some cuff.


----------



## rwaldron

ColonialBoy said:


> Wondered why they had a Fourier transform on the blackboard. The entire digital music industry is based on it.
> 
> As a math graduate, a lot of what was considered high end math in the 1960s is now taught in high school.


How does one teach Fourier Transforms without at least an adequate knowledge of differential equations? I didn't learn about them until grad school, and that was just 5 or 6 years ago.


----------



## Yuca

AldenPyle said:


> Notice they have Luis Tiant's name written on the bongos. Apparently, the Red Sox pitcher's father was a legendary Cuban hero and ***** League player.


Please excuse my pedantry, but: they're congas, not bongos, and they have Luis Kant written on them, which was the name of the conguero (conga player).

Wonderful thread, btw.


----------



## wilhelm00

*Wait - your signature line is a Patrick Bateman quote?*

QUOTE=Allthingstrad;278193]​
Fred Barnes and Yours Truly--two great American Trads.

"Since it's a traditional, preppy look it's best if balanced by a relatively small four-in-hand knot." He sips his martini, recrossing his legs. "Next question?"[/:biggrin:QUOTE]


----------



## P Hudson

Doctor Damage said:


> I posted this image in the bit loafer thread, but I doubt many people read it. What movie is this image from? Topsider says either _Talented Mr Ripley_ or _School Ties_. I have no idea myself.


I'd say it's not from Ripley: TR wore glasses, never as I recall wore a green jacket, and was by definition a character lacking patina.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Wittenberg University 1967


----------



## Jovan

Excellent!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

A few more.


----------



## PG63

Recently deceased New York City Mayor Ed Koch was a Brooks Brothers customer:


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Good stuff PG63










I like his frames.










Maybe not trad, but there is something I like about this image.


----------



## AldenPyle

Ed Muskie by Richard Avedon, mid-1970/s


----------



## Stirling Newberry

Many thanks for these, many of them are excellent reminders of the era in their own right.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

The best pic of Buddy Holly that I've seen.


----------



## alkydrinker

hard money financial guru/author Jim Grant


----------



## Orgetorix

Some nice photos of GHWB here. Just ignore the captions.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/briangalindo/21-photos-that-prove-bush-41-has-always-been-one-stylish-gq


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Great pics of a great American...thanks for that!


----------



## Barnavelt

^^+1 Please tell me he was sporting that madras sport coat when he was top dog at the CIA! God bless a true patriot.


----------



## MDP

​America's greatest living poet, Richard Wilbur, in 1956.


----------



## AldenPyle

That was in Beijing as 1st US head of mission.


----------



## Corcovado

Alex Chilton


----------



## Jovan

Orgetorix said:


> Some nice photos of GHWB here. Just ignore the captions.
> 
> https://www.buzzfeed.com/briangalindo/21-photos-that-prove-bush-41-has-always-been-one-stylish-gq


Regardless of political leanings, I always found him pretty well turned out.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Gregory Peck.


----------



## katon

Hardy C. Dillard and J. William Middendorf in 1971, enjoying nature. I can certainly feel the excitement, can't you?


----------



## leisureclass

Corcovado said:


> Alex Chilton


Love this, what a talent.


----------



## wacolo

George Seldes




























Frederick Madison Roberts

Bandleader Hal Kemp


----------



## Fatman

I know this is a long thread (and an interesting one!); is there any close up pictures (like ads?) of shoes from the 1940's?

I have vague memories of my father's shoe collection (he was in sales), but recall them being all from the pre-disposable era (he was a WWII vet), and all of quality leather which he took meticulous care of.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## benjclark

White bucks - brick soles in action.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

In the vein of AldenPyle's great shoe picture, and some nice shots of the man himself on Leisureclass's tumblr, how about this one, from William Eggleston's _14 Pictures:_

First of all, I love it as a image (though this scan is lousy), and second of all, it makes me want burg saddles (though I'd use trees). Of course, my one photo professor says he's the most overrated photographer ever, so...


----------



## Anthony Charton

Mr T.S. Eliot, possibly the best-dressed literary genius of all time.

https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/tseliot.jpg/


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Colonel Ichabod

John Cheever, anyone? Currently reading _The Wapshot Chronicles_, and it is excellent. :thumbs-up:


----------



## boatshoe




----------



## Jovan

^Didn't care for some of his views, especially his anti-gay rhetoric, but he was as well-dressed in the Ivy tradition as they came.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Perhaps,
but in some substantial measure, are we not each a product of our times? He remains at the very least a rather Tradly clothe's horse!


----------



## Corcovado

Artist William Christenberry


----------



## CMDC

Albert Murray. Today's obituary. Among other things, great jacket.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/...-conventional-dies-at-97.html?pagewanted=1&hp


----------



## L-feld

Just found this picture of my grandfather from the local newspaper archives.


----------



## gamma68

It would appear that your grandfather was acquainted with Dos Equis' "Most Interesting Man in the World."



L-feld said:


> Just found this picture of my grandfather from the local newspaper archives.


----------



## Eric W S

benjclark said:


> White bucks - brick soles in action.


I was just in that cave I think. Cave of the Mounds in WI?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Some low quality scans from 1945 - 1949 Wittenberg University.


----------



## Tiger

gamma68 said:


> It would appear that your grandfather was acquainted with Dos Equis' "Most Interesting Man in the World."


"When he dresses tradly, his OCBD wrinkles only in the places he permits."


----------



## gamma68

Miles Davis, at the 1958 Newport Jazz festival:


----------



## Jovan

Inspired by my post in another thread? 

He makes even a band collar look good.


----------



## gamma68

Yep, your post was the source of inspiration. Where does one find a band collar shirt like the one Miles is sporting?



Jovan said:


> Inspired by my post in another thread?
> 
> He makes even a band collar look good.


----------



## Jovan

Afraid the '90s was the last decade it was popular. There are only a few retailers who will sell them. Beyond that, you'd better just go custom. It's not something I'd seek out, but I would like some more tab and club collars like the ones he sported in the '60s.


----------



## alkydrinker

I think Rand Paul dresses fairly trad, within the confines of politician-conservative. He always wears button down collars just has kindof a generally trad look about his attire.


----------



## Fading Fast

Jovan said:


> Afraid the '90s was the last decade it was popular. There are only a few retailers who will sell them. Beyond that, you'd better just go custom. It's not something I'd seek out, but I would like some more tab and club collars like the ones he sported in the '60s.


J.Peterman has a few band collar shirts on its site (at one time, if memory serves, the banded collar shirt was Peterman's signature shirt).

Jovan, tab collar and club collar shirts are worth the search (I bought several tab collars from BB Black Fleece a few years back for - I kid you not - about 75% off - crazy sizing to get your hands around) and regular Brooks Brothers usually puts a few out every other season or so. I love them as they are something that is vintage, but do not look "costumey" in any way and nothing - to my eye - makes a shirt and tie look neater and sharper than a tab collar. With a club collar, I always use a collar pin and I get the same effect, but the club and collar pin combo is a bit more noticeable to even the non-AFF member's eye. A white tab-collar dress shirt is my go to shirt when I want to look my sharpest (not that I every really do look sharp, but I try).


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> J.Peterman has a few band collar shirts on its site (at one time, if memory serves, the banded collar shirt was Peterman's signature shirt).


Are there other sources for a "band" or "mandarin" collar shirt? I'm looking for something less expensive than the $89+ prices from J. Peterman.


----------



## Jovan

FF: I've looked recently and sadly there were none on offer at Black Fleece. I'll probably have a tab collar custom made by Ratio Clothing at some point.


----------



## mhj

Paul Fredrick carries 13 different models with a tab collar. I got a white one for $20 a few years ago with their introductory offer and it's just fine for the few times a year that I wear it.


----------



## oxford cloth button down




----------



## L-feld

Clarence Darrow


----------



## Shoe City Thinker

May I submit Chris Kimball, host of America's Test Kitchen if it pleases the gentlemen of the Trad forum?


----------



## jimw

oxford cloth button down said:


> I notice that, in the early '60s, white sport socks with stripes were common with casual trad wear (I've seen similar photos with JFK wearing athletic socks with moccasins). I wonder if this was a rebellious expression of the time, or still an acceptable variation on the trad look. I'm not sure the look would be embraced now.


----------



## Jovan

White socks in general, whether striped or not. But they were made of wool rather than cotton as is common now, so they were more cream than white.


----------



## Billax

jimw said:


> oxford cloth button down said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I notice that, in the early '60s, white sport socks with stripes were common with casual trad wear (I've seen similar photos with JFK wearing athletic socks with moccasins). I wonder if this was a rebellious expression of the time, or still an acceptable variation on the trad look. I'm not sure the look would be embraced now.
> 
> 
> 
> jimw,
> In the early '60s, the word trad may have existed* but was not what 'the look" was called. In the Ivy League Look of the 1960s, white socks of both cotton and wool were worn on Campuses across the United States, with Levis, cords, chinos, and khakis. They were the most commonly worn socks with casual pants and, on campus, were most often worn with sneakers or loafers.
> 
> The picture of the striped white socks you show above, would not have been "cool" in the early sixties, for two reasons. Firstly, the young man's trousers are cuffed and secondly he is wearing oxfords. Cuffed trousers were often worn with laced shoes, but only rarely were the two mediated by white socks.
> 
> If my decaying memory serves, white socks with stripes were almost always cotton. Wool athletic socks were almost always solid colored and, as Jovan states, tended toward creamy white. As i've learned, Adler wool athletic socks were quite popular on the East Coast, while, in my experience, Wigwams were the white wool athletic sock of choice for campus wear in the Midwest.
> 
> The are still some of us "ancient ones" who regularly wear white wool socks with chinos, cords, and Levis, and wear them inside sneakers and loafers. I am among them. To my aging eyes, a pair of Levi "wheat" jeans, a pair of Wigwams Huskys, and a pair of faded White Keds still looks really good. Of course, most others just snicker at that notion.
> 
> So, yes, they are still worn, but unless you revive them, they are mostly worn by old geezers like me, as a fond memory of FAR better and happier times.
> 
> If you decide to go for it, post pictures.
> _______________
> * Chris Sharp of Ivy Style recently found a reference to "Trad" used in the 1960s by a menswear store at Cornell.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jovan

Thanks for the insight, Billax. I thought those striped ones were wool as well, but your correction is much appreciated.


----------



## bd79cc

Billax said:


> jimw said:
> 
> 
> 
> The are still some of us "ancient ones" who regularly wear white wool socks with chinos, cords, and Levis, and wear them inside sneakers and loafers. I am among them. To my aging eyes, a pair of Levi "wheat" jeans, a pair of Wigwams Huskys, and a pair of faded White Keds still looks really good. Of course, most others just snicker at that notion.
> 
> 
> 
> I do this, too.
Click to expand...


----------



## universitystripe

Bill Haslam. Former Mayor of Knoxville. Current Governor of Tennessee. A good ol' fashion Republican.

I like him alright as a Southern Democrat. And he dresses well.


----------



## ROI

Two devotees of the bow tie: George Shinn, CEO of First Boston Corp and Chairman of the Board of Trustees of Amherst; Edward Ney, Ambassador to Canada and Chairman and CEO of Young & Rubicam and Marsteller, also an Amherst Trustee. Both died within the last year.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Jovan said:


> Inspired by my post in another thread?
> 
> He makes even a band collar look good.


This image is from 28 years ago. At this vantage, he looks like a berserk grandfather, not a hip dude:


----------



## Jovan

Agreed, I'm not sure what happened later on.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Jovan said:


> Agreed, I'm not sure what happened later on.


Well, Miles became a rock musician, that's what happened. And I _like_ albums like _Agharta_, etc. I just think the clothes haven't dated well, unlike his famous DB suit, which still looks good. Bootsy Collins can still pull off ridiculous clothing like the above because he intends to be humorous.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

oxford cloth button down said:


> Gregory Peck.


oh, you have to love Gregory Peck! Atticus Finch (while fictional) is a personal hero of mine. I appreciate the Character so much my Son's middle name is Atticus!

I have this picture framed in my office.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

I'm still working on the trad look. I had a few misconceptions about what it meant. But, I think Reagan would qualify -- at least at times. Let see if I have it.










Whoa! Look at that plaid!



















Ok, in this next one I don't think either one is wearing an OCBD, and Reagan's is probably over padded, but you have like the style of Reagan and Clark Gable.


----------



## Odradek

Nobleprofessor said:


> Whoa! Look at that plaid!


Never mind the plaid, which is clashing with the other guy's tie.
What's up with that saw tooth pocket square?


----------



## ThePopinjay

AldenPyle said:


>


I love these few photos. Who is this man?


----------



## drlivingston

West Virginia University's tradly president Gordon Gee and his little bow tie collection...


----------



## AldenPyle

ThePopinjay said:


> I love these few photos. Who is this man?


 Charles Percy who was for many years Senator from Illinois. In the 50's, he was kind of a wunderkind CEO and was briefly a darkhorse candidate for the GOP nomination. Kind of a George Romney figure.


----------



## Odradek

AldenPyle said:


> "Everything they were wearing, he decided, qualified as what she'd call 'iconic' but had originally become that way through its ability to gracefully patinate. She was big on patination. That was how quality wore in, she said, as opposed to out. Distressing, on the other hand, was the faking of patination and was actually a way of concealing a lack of quality." -- William Gibson.


That's a great quotation, and very true.

Looking at your tumblr, I love the photo of this guy smoking by a petrol pump. 
Different times.










And, you've got to love that Norman Hilton slogan..... Doing One Thing Well.


----------



## Odradek

James Stewart


----------



## Odradek

The Georgia Tech Yearbook - 1967


----------



## Fading Fast

Odradek said:


> James Stewart


Jimmy Stewart was a really good dresser - he clearly cared about details, textures, style - but for some reason, Cary Grant and even Gary Cooper seem to get more "press" about their clothes than Stewart does.


----------



## wwilson

Odradek said:


> The Georgia Tech Yearbook - 1967


Must be the Architecture fraternity...engineers would never put that kind of load on that kind of structure!


----------



## Nobleprofessor

How about the most trad Presidential debate ever? 



You can see the 3 roll 2 Nixon is wearing!


----------



## Natty Beau

Isn't Nixon's suit a regular 3-button, which I believe is equally trad?


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Natty Beau said:


> Isn't Nixon's suit a regular 3-button, which I believe is equally trad?


If you look at the first picture, it looks rolled to me.


----------



## Natty Beau

Nobleprofessor said:


> If you look at the first picture, it looks rolled to me.


I think it just hasn't been hard pressed like a modern superfine wool suit. This is one mark of a quality suit, but you can have roll without rolling it past the top button.

Either way, these gentlemen look sharp.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Natty Beau said:


> I think it just hasn't been hard pressed like a modern superfine wool suit. This is one mark of a quality suit, but you can have roll without rolling it past the top button.
> 
> Either way, these gentlemen look sharp.


yes they do. And they both look so much younger than just a few short years after this.


----------



## Fading Fast

Nobleprofessor said:


> yes they do. And they both look so much younger than just a few short years after this.


First a question - "you can have a roll without it rolling past the top button" - what does this mean exactly? Are you saying the gentle "roll" of the lapel is what a "roll" is whether or not it includes the top button? Are you making a distinction between a gently rolled lapel and one that is hard pressed? And, is a gentle roll, in and of itself, a Trad trademark (whether or not it includes the top button)? Thank you.

Second, Democrat or Republican (hence, no politics) - man, does the presidency age a person.


----------



## Natty Beau

Fading Fast said:


> Are you saying the gentle "roll" of the lapel is what a "roll" is whether or not it includes the top button? Are you making a distinction between a gently rolled lapel and one that is hard pressed?


Yes, that's exactly what I meant and the distinction I was making.



Fading Fast said:


> And, is a gentle roll, in and of itself, a Trad trademark (whether or not it includes the top button)? Thank you.


I couldn't say.

But it seems to me that there's an insistence that a "3-roll-2" button stance is the only proper one for the "Trad" look, when a little research says the regular old 3-button jacket is just as "Trad."

Think of the 3-roll-2 thing as a patina. It's not fundamentally different from the standard 3-button jacket--just an old one that's lost it shape and acquired more elegance because of it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Natty Beau said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I meant and the distinction I was making.
> 
> I couldn't say.
> 
> But it seems to me that there's an insistence that a "3-roll-2" button stance is the only proper one for the "Trad" look, when a little research says the regular old 3-button jacket is just as "Trad."
> 
> Think of the 3-roll-2 thing as a patina. It's not fundamentally different from the standard 3-button jacket--just an old one that's lost it shape and acquired more elegance because of it.


thank you


----------



## Fading Fast

Natty Beau said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I meant and the distinction I was making.
> 
> I couldn't say.
> 
> But it seems to me that there's an insistence that a "3-roll-2" button stance is the only proper one for the "Trad" look, when a little research says the regular old 3-button jacket is just as "Trad."
> 
> Think of the 3-roll-2 thing as a patina. It's not fundamentally different from the standard 3-button jacket--just an old one that's lost it shape and acquired more elegance because of it.


Thinking more about your answer - weren't there (and aren't there) 3/2 rolls that start life with the top button already in the roll; hence, for those, it is not just patina but a manufacturers decision? In "the day" weren't there 3/2 rolls that started life that way at J.Press?


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> Thinking more about your answer - weren't there (and aren't there) 3/2 rolls that start life with the top button already in the roll; hence, for those, it is not just patina but a manufacturers decision? In "the day" weren't there 3/2 rolls that started life that way at J.Press?


*Absolutely*, there are three-button jackets intentionally rolled to the middle button.

If you take a 3/2 roll jacket and fasten the top and middle buttons, it's obvious that the jacket is straining to be open at the top button. Because that's the way it was tailored.

My understanding of the 3/2 roll is that it evolved from people who only fastened the middle button on their jacket. Eventually, this stylistic choice on the part of the garment wearer morphed into the 3/2 roll.

I'm certain there is someone here more knowledgeable about the metamorphosis of the 3/2 roll who can chime in here.


----------



## L-feld

Jackets that were made with the vestigial third button, but cut like a two button didn't become common until the 50's when the Ivy League look was democratized with fused inter linings. As Natty Beau stated, a full canvas 3 button jacket will eventually go limp and will roll to the second button. Actually, it will even roll to the bottom button, given enough time.

The prefab 3/2 roll with which we're currently familiar is something of a fashionable fake, similar to people taking brand new wee nuns and wrapping duct tape around them to make it appear as they've had them for years. Making things look old and lived in was part of the Ivy ethos (partly because you want to look like you've always dressed in these sort of clothes, and were thrifty despite your supposed old money). In some ways, it's kind of like prefab whiskering on denim, but with a different reference point as a signifier. But at this point, it's an empty signifier, whose original meaning has essentially been lost to history.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I have quite a few 3/2 roll sport coats (like the one above) that don't look off at least in my opinion when the top two buttons are buttoned. I also have a newer Norman Hilton in my possession where top button won't fit through the button hole. Talk about non-functioning!

*Here is a pic of it in bad weather mode. Throat latch included.


----------



## Fading Fast

This discussion - the insane interest I have in the 3/2 roll, or the reason for the locker loop, or the proper width of a cuff (yes, a cuff) - is the reason I have never seen a psychiatrist - I have no doubt they would lock me up.  For some reason, this stuff is very interesting.


----------



## Reuben

Wee nuns? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Nobleprofessor

This reminds me of a mentor of mine. He was a great example of trad. He was a lawyer but always wanted to be in the car business. His name was Don Wessel. Back in the 60's he started an Oldmobile Dealership in Springfield, Missouri (my home town). He was a civic leader and a great businessman. I worked at the dealership as the Service Manager. But, he always told me I needed to go to law school. When GM announced they were no longer making Oldsmobiles, I decided he was right and I went to law school (with some help from him). 

He was definitely old trad. He had a few rules for dressing, other than everything being trad, he also ALWAYS wore red white and blue. Even if it was a blue jacket, white shirt and red tie. Sometimes it was white jacket red tie and blue pants. Or sometimes it was red white and blue surcingle belt. 

He was a true gentleman. He kept a grand piano on the showroom floor and would occasionally play and sing to the customers. He collected old cars and every Saturday he came to the dealership in Driving hat and gloves and driove everyone of them for at least a little while. Any charity that wanted a parade car was welcome to use his Old Cadillac Convertible (as long as he got to drive in the parade!). 

When I worked there, the department heads wore red or blue Sport coats everyday. 

He he was a mentor to me in terms of running a business, the car business, being a lawyer, and even dressing trad (although that wasn't a term then. It was just "the way a gentleman dressed" (his words).


----------



## Natty Beau

Nobleprofessor said:


> This reminds me of a mentor of mine. He was a great example of trad. He was a lawyer but always wanted to be in the car business. His name was Don Wessel. Back in the 60's he started an Oldmobile Dealership in Springfield, Missouri (my home town). He was a civic leader and a great businessman. I worked at the dealership as the Service Manager. But, he always told me I needed to go to law school. When GM announced they were no longer making Oldsmobiles, I decided he was right and I went to law school (with some help from him).
> 
> He was definitely old trad. He had a few rules for dressing, other than everything being trad, he also ALWAYS wore red white and blue. Even if it was a blue jacket, white shirt and red tie. Sometimes it was white jacket red tie and blue pants. Or sometimes it was red white and blue surcingle belt.
> 
> He was a true gentleman. He kept a grand piano on the showroom floor and would occasionally play and sing to the customers. He collected old cars and every Saturday he came to the dealership in Driving hat and gloves and driove everyone of them for at least a little while. Any charity that wanted a parade car was welcome to use his Old Cadillac Convertible (as long as he got to drive in the parade!).
> 
> When I worked there, the department heads wore red or blue Sport coats everyday.
> 
> He he was a mentor to me in terms of running a business, the car business, being a lawyer, and even dressing trad (although that wasn't a term then. It was just "the way a gentleman dressed" (his words).


Great story. This is how tradition used to be passed down.


----------



## AldenPyle

^Excellent pictures.

Paul Fussell


----------



## L-feld

AldenPyle said:


> ^Excellent pictures.
> 
> Paul Fussell


Great photo of the man the Chicago Tribune called "the most eagle-eyed American curmudgeon since Thorstein Veblen."

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## gamma68

Princeton Seal and Key Club, 1962.


----------



## Odradek




----------



## Billax

The two picture of Ivy League males - directly above - create an interesting contrast. The lower picture, posted by Odradek, was taken in the J. Press New Haven store by Life Magazine in 1954. It demonstrates the favored lapel width at that time. Just eight years later, in 1962, gamma68's post shows the preferred lapel width in 1962, which many experts contend was the high water mark for the Ivy League Look. It was in that period that a participant on a men's clothing panel averred: _Eighty percent of all the men's suits sold in the United States last year were in the Ivy League style. _By the 1970s, the Ivy League style had lost its panache. Lapels were 4" or more wide, gorges had drooped and the gorge angle had widened. Princeton and Yale were/are widely considered the two Ivies most responsible for honing the Ivy League Look, so you're looking at exemplary outfits from each those schools.

In 1962, for one reason or another, my picture appeared in the Daily newspaper at my non-Ivy college, wearing an outfit with narrow lapels, high gorge point, and a skinny tie. Whatever adaptation lag there was between garden variety colleges and the Ivy League had pretty much disappeared - just in time for the Ivy League Look itself to disappear from college campuses.


----------



## Odradek

William Faulkner


----------



## Natty Beau

L-feld said:


> Jackets that were made with the vestigial third button, but cut like a two button didn't become common until the 50's when the Ivy League look was democratized with fused inter linings. As Natty Beau stated, a full canvas 3 button jacket will eventually go limp and will roll to the second button. Actually, it will even roll to the bottom button, given enough time.
> 
> The prefab 3/2 roll with which we're currently familiar is something of a fashionable fake, similar to people taking brand new wee nuns and wrapping duct tape around them to make it appear as they've had them for years. Making things look old and lived in was part of the Ivy ethos (partly because you want to look like you've always dressed in these sort of clothes, and were thrifty despite your supposed old money). In some ways, it's kind of like prefab whiskering on denim, but with a different reference point as a signifier. But at this point, it's an empty signifier, whose original meaning has essentially been lost to history.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I just ran across this essay on Ivy style, written in 1957: https://www.keikari.com/english/ivy-leaguer-casts-wary-eye-at-fads/

The relevant part:
"The jacket must have three buttons, setting up a constant war between the Ivy dresser and the pressing establishment which irons his clothes. Pressers think all sports jackets should have that *be-bop, two-button drape effect*. They press them that way. Joe Ivy takes most of this press out by buttoning up three button and hanging the garment in a steamy bathroom. Mildew sometimes sets in, but the purity of the three-button line is preserved."

He seems to be railing against jackets sold with a 3/2 roll already set in by the tailor. Interesting.


----------



## Duvel

A bebop effect. Funny. My dad sometimes uses the term "bebop" to describe something that strikes him--especially a style or an item from his youth--that was too trendy. He uses it the way we might describe something as "hipster."

I wonder if Cary Grant in his 3/2 roll suit jacket in NxNW looked "bebop" back when the movie came out. Or had fashion moved along enough that this was more conventional by then?


----------



## wwilson

Duvel said:


> A bebop effect. Funny. My dad sometimes uses the term "bebop" to describe something that strikes him--especially a style or an item from his youth--that was too trendy. He uses it the way we might describe something as "hipster."


I used the term quite frequently when Spuds MacKenzie, Hammer pants and high-top Reeboks were all the rage...


----------



## Natty Beau

Duvel said:


> A bebop effect. Funny. My dad sometimes uses the term "bebop" to describe something that strikes him--especially a style or an item from his youth--that was too trendy. He uses it the way we might describe something as "hipster."
> 
> I wonder if Cary Grant in his 3/2 roll suit jacket in NxNW looked "bebop" back when the movie came out. Or had fashion moved along enough that this was more conventional by then?


I also know the term described a new wave of experimental jazz that was coming out then, that created the jazz sound we usually hear today.

Kind of like saying it was "rock 'n' roll!"


----------



## Duvel

Yep. My dad is a big fan of swing and big band jazz. He detests bebop jazz and everything that evolved afterwards, including the sort of post-bop jazz from Miles Davis, Coltrane, and the Blue Note artists. For him to say something is "bebop" is an expression of true dislike.

At one time, hoping to find some common ground with him, I tried to talk to him about the jazz I was listening to, Miles Davis, et al. He wrinkled his nose like I'd just farted.



Natty Beau said:


> I also know the term described a new wave of experimental jazz that was coming out then, that created the jazz sound we usually hear today.
> 
> Kind of like saying it was "rock 'n' roll!"


----------



## Natty Beau

Duvel said:


> Yep. My dad is a big fan of swing and big band jazz. He detests bebop jazz and everything that evolved afterwards, including the sort of post-bop jazz from Miles Davis, Coltrane, and the Blue Note artists. For him to say something is "bebop" is an expression of true dislike.
> 
> At one time, hoping to find some common ground with him, I tried to talk to him about the jazz I was listening to, Miles Davis, et al. He wrinkled his nose like I'd just farted.


Haha, a few years ago I would definitely have agreed with your dad.


----------



## gamma68

Detroit Country Day School faculty member Mr. W. Barclay L. Palmer. Subject: English. Year: 1968.


----------



## Duvel

Hmm. Never thought to wear my tennis sweater with a necktie.


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> Hmm. Never thought to wear my tennis sweater with a necktie.


That photo, to me, is Trad perfection. I say give it a shot.


----------



## Duvel

Definitely.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Odradek said:


> William Faulkner


Faulkner is from Mississippi. He spent a lot of his time in OXFORD, MS. It seems hard to imagine him ever having to dress this warm! But, it's a great picture. I wonder if Eudora Welty dresses trad (for a woman).


----------



## rsgordon

AldenPyle said:


>


The young man on the right? SO BADASS along with the other awesome pictures of youth from AP on page 77.


----------



## Anon 18th Cent.

gamma68 said:


> Detroit Country Day School faculty member Mr. W. Barclay L. Palmer. Subject: English. Year: 1968.


I went to junior school with a Barclay Palmer from 1964 to 1968 or so. Wonder if that is his dad.


----------



## Fading Fast

Nobleprofessor said:


> Faulkner is from Mississippi. He spent a lot of his time in OXFORD, MS. It seems hard to imagine him ever having to dress this warm! But, it's a great picture. I wonder if Eudora Welty dresses trad (for a woman).


That coat and that suit are fantastic. (Check out Peak and Pine's overcoat in a recent post on the WAYWT Fashion thread - there's a slight echo of Faulkner's overcoat in Peak and Pine's.)


----------



## thegovteach

Nobleprofessor said:


> Faulkner is from Mississippi. He spent a lot of his time in OXFORD, MS. It seems hard to imagine him ever having to dress this warm! But, it's a great picture. I wonder if Eudora Welty dresses trad (for a woman).


I think the photo of his was taken when he was visiting scholar for a year at the Univ. Of Virginia.


----------



## Duvel

I think I remember seeing it in that context as well. It's not like the poor man was stuck in Mississippi all the time.



thegovteach said:


> I think the photo of his was taken when he was visiting scholar for a year at the Univ. Of Virginia.


----------



## Duvel

He might be taking the no-break look just a bit far. But I like the vibe.



rsgordon said:


> The young man on the right? SO BADASS along with the other awesome pictures of youth from AP on page 77.


----------



## gamma68

I don't endorse the smoking, but like the rest of the image.


----------



## gamma68

Edwin Ek said:


> I went to junior school with a Barclay Palmer from 1964 to 1968 or so. Wonder if that is his dad.


Were you in Michigan at that time? If so, I think the young man you remember is most likely the son of the man pictured.


----------



## jimw

Indeed - that kid IS one sick pimp, isn't he? I hope he retained this aesthetic, though he was probably sucked into the hippie vortex to some degree.....


rsgordon said:


> The young man on the right? SO BADASS along with the other awesome pictures of youth from AP on page 77.


----------



## Duvel

I'm doing the Barclay Palmer tennis sweater and tie look here on "casual Wednesday before the holiday" at the office. Everybody else is in jeans and t-shirts. No comments, so far.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I'm doing the Barclay Palmer tennis sweater and tie look here on "casual Wednesday before the holiday" at the office. Everybody else is in jeans and t-shirts. No comments, so far.


I bet your lack of conformity to the baseline sartorial choice at your office, much like Orange Fury's at his, is becoming an accepted fact by your co-workers. When I didn't work from home, my wearing of sweaters or sweater vests with my suits in the winter was a topic of conversation for a week or so each late fall and then it became accepted and ignored.


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> I'm doing the Barclay Palmer tennis sweater and tie look here on "casual Wednesday before the holiday" at the office. Everybody else is in jeans and t-shirts. No comments, so far.


Show us some pics in the WAYWT thread. I'd like to see your cool Trad rig.


----------



## Duvel

I will try to do so by end of day. I just received what I think might qualify as a compliment; a young lady told me I looked extremely well dressed and also as if I should be out on the east coast playing cricket somewhere. LOL, as the kids say. So, who knows.



gamma68 said:


> Show us some pics in the WAYWT thread. I'd like to see your cool Trad rig.


----------



## jimw

I would imagine your sartorial example will set them on the straight and narrow. Work is no place for jeans and smelly t-shirts (unless you're on a construction site, I guess). :icon_pale:

Like Gamma, I also look forward to seeing this outfit of tie and cricket whites.

JW

Everybody else is in jeans and t-shirts. No comments, so far.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Duvel

Cross-posted from the other thread. I hope to get pix of more of the outfit later.


----------



## Duvel

I'm not holding my breath. I think they just think I'm silly. Dress up?! For work? Day before a holiday?!



jimw said:


> I would imagine your sartorial example will set them on the straight and narrow. Work is no place for jeans and smelly t-shirts (unless you're on a construction site, I guess). :icon_pale:
> 
> Like Gamma, I also look forward to seeing this outfit of tie and cricket whites.
> 
> JW
> 
> Everybody else is in jeans and t-shirts. No comments, so far.


[/QUOTE]


----------



## Billax

This is a 1962 photo of a Forum member wearing a BlackWatch sport coat. It was taken right around 52 years ago when the Forum member was 20 years old. I could not find a thread on the topic "What were you wearing then?" so I posted it here. I'd be happy to change its location if someone can send the url for the appropriate thread.


----------



## Shaver

Billax said:


> This is a 1962 photo of a Forum member wearing a BlackWatch sport coat. It was taken right around 52 years ago when the Forum member was 20 years old. I could not find a thread on the topic "What were you wearing then?" so I posted it here. I'd be happy to change its location if someone can send the url for the appropriate thread.


Montgomery Clift is a forum member?!










More seriously, what a fine and clean-cut young man you were. :thumbs-up:


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Shaver said:


> Montgomery Clift is a forum member?!


Sure he is! This is where he learned it's OK to wear cream socks with darker trousers in a casual context:


----------



## Billax

Shaver said:


> Montgomery Clift is a forum member?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More seriously, what a fine and clean-cut young man you were. :thumbs-up:


Why, thank you, Shaver! It was both cautious and correct to frame your compliment in the past tense! :biggrin:


----------



## Fading Fast

Billax said:


> Why, thank you, Shaver! It was both cautious and correct to frame your compliment in the past tense! :biggrin:


Not at all from the current pictures I've seen you post. Also, there currently is a run of photographs from the past on the Trad WAYW thread that this one would fit in with perfectly.


----------



## Anon 18th Cent.

gamma68 said:


> Were you in Michigan at that time? If so, I think the young man you remember is most likely the son of the man pictured.


No, it was Pittsburgh, PA. Barclay and I were pals in junior school. We lost touch; I can't remember for how many years he was at my school. He must have moved away, maybe to Detroit. Barclay called me out of the blue about 10 years ago. We chatted only briefly.


----------



## challer

thegovteach said:


> I think the photo of his was taken when he was visiting scholar for a year at the Univ. Of Virginia.


Tha photo was taken at UVA near the Rotunda. Still, it never gets all that cold in Charlottesville either.


----------



## gamma68

Boris Karloff. Not an American, but nonetheless interesting.


----------



## Duvel

Nice sweater! The scarf puts it a little over the top, but that's okay.


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> Nice sweater! The scarf puts it a little over the top, but that's okay.


Cary Grant took a similar stance:


----------



## GenuineWeejun

American international relations theorists, more precicely of the neorealist school, seem notoriously trad.

Samuel P. Huntington










John Mearsheimer










Kenneth Waltz sporting a flap pocketed OCBD.


----------



## Duvel

Yes, but he was Cary Grant. I'm just Duvel.



gamma68 said:


> Cary Grant took a similar stance:


----------



## Duvel

Don't they, though? The neckties are awesome.



GenuineWeejun said:


> American international relations theorists, more precicely of the neorealist school, seem notoriously trad.
> 
> Samuel P. Huntington
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Mearsheimer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kenneth Waltz sporting a flap pocketed OCBD.


----------



## gamma68

U.S. Crew Captain James S. Rockefeller, great-nephew of the oil magnate. This sweater reminds me of a photo our friend Billax recently posted. It shows his son wearing a very similar sweater.










^ RFK


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> ^ RFK


The 1960's skinny fit looks very similar to how I see kids in their 20s today where these close.


----------



## Dr.Watson

In honor of the Christmas season, note Santa's striped watchband.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Ho Ho Ho!!

Not so creepy, I hope...









I'd liked to have had the Santa Photo concession back then...


----------



## Duvel

Amusing. The whole kid-on-Santa's-lap is always a little creepy looking.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Amusing. The whole kid-on-Santa's-lap is always a little creepy looking.


Agreed - that's how we've become trained to think, but growing up - before all the horrible pedophile sex scandals - we didn't think that way. Just another thing lost.


----------



## Duvel

I had to play Santa once, for my small daughter's Christmas party. I hated it, but it was at my then-wife's request. Each little kid had to sit on my lap before he or she got a present. I hated it because of how I was trained to think about it, as you say, that every guy in a Santa suit is a pedophile in disguise. I could almost feel every parent's eyes on me, like, "Hey, watch where you're putting your hand on my daughter." 

By the way, I was undoubtedly the scrawniest Santa you can imagine.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed - that's how we've become trained to think, but growing up - before all the horrible pedophile sex scandals - we didn't think that way. Just another thing lost.


I think the "there must be something wrong/creepy with Santa" thing started with Miracle on 34th street.

Not just with Chris Kringle himself, but with the drunk Santa in the parade and the poor soul janitor character as well.


----------



## Fading Fast

WouldaShoulda said:


> I think the "there must be something wrong/creepy with Santa" thing started with Miracle on 34th street.
> 
> Not just with Chris Kringle himself, but with the drunk Santa in the parade and the poor soul janitor character as well.


Unfortunately, it's hard to believe that seasonal, low-pay work hasn't always attracted its share of seedy or marginal characters. So, your point is spot on. That said, the pedophile scandals really destroyed that role - I can't believe they even do it any more. Why not just have Santa stand and hand the kid something (we've certainly change many other traditions to fit new standards).


----------



## universitystripe

Perhaps my personal ideal for the modern Southern Trad, Jon Meacham: McCallie, Sewanee. Pulitzer Prize winner and former editor-in-chief of Newsweek.


----------



## jimw

It's unfortunate that any man serving in an 'unconventional' role (kindergarten teachers, priests, etc) is under automatic scrutiny these days, even Santa. I'm a father of three, and though I 'get it', its sorta sad nonetheless. I was once asked to wear the Santa suit at our local farmer's market, and though I started the morning glibly, by day's end I found it to be very satisfying. No, I didn't have children on my lap, but plenty of little ones who took my presence to heart and truly believed, asking for that special toy and wanting to give me a quick hug. Even most adults lit up to see yet another Santa. By the end, my Ho-Ho-Ho's were pretty darned heart-felt. I'll have to do this again, if asked - it was very honorable, in its own way.



Fading Fast said:


> Unfortunately, it's hard to believe that seasonal, low-pay work hasn't always attracted its share of seedy or marginal characters. So, your point is spot on. That said, the pedophile scandals really destroyed that role - I can't believe they even do it any more. Why not just have Santa stand and hand the kid something (we've certainly change many other traditions to fit new standards).


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

Professor Walter Berns recently passed. Accompanying the New York Times' obituary is the follow picture of a rather trad-y Berns sporting a nice herringbone jacket, ocbd, repp tie, and tortoiseshell glasses:


----------



## Duvel

Great image. Great thread! However, it's always a little unsettling, for me, to see that so many of the great American trad men belong to such conservative politics. Seems like it is always so much easier to find their images than those of liberals, aside from JFK.


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

Duvel said:


> Great image. Great thread! However, it's always a little unsettling, for me, to see that so many of the great American trad men belong to such conservative politics. Seems like it is always so much easier to find their images than those of liberals, aside from JFK.


I'm not bothered--maybe that's because I generally agree with their points of view. Nevertheless, a person's politics, for me, do not come into play when looking at style. If they have style, whether they are Left or Right or any point in between, they have style. And it is a bit interesting why, minus the Kennedy brothers and Daniel Patrick Moynihan, there aren't more American trad men from the Left. Perhaps outer appearances, like how one dresses, are manifestations of internal beliefs; that is, a person more dispositionally conservative will dress more conservative which is why you see more trad-dressing men on the Right. Just a hypothesis.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I'm politically liberal, but would not feel the least bit conflicted about appearing in public dressed exactly as Harvey Mansfield is below. In fact, as a Midwesterner whose dad worked in an auto factory, I would have felt an obligation, if I had found an academic position after getting my doctorate, to look like what I would have been, namely a very fortunate, very successful person, not like a schlub. Or someone trying to look younger. Or someone embarrassed by his own privilege. Or someone trying to undermine his own authority, instead of laboring to exercise it responsibly.


----------



## Duvel

Maybe "unsettling" is too strong. Surprising, maybe, is a better word, although I like the conservative beliefs/conservative dress hypothesis, which makes it not so surprising after all. And of course I can still admire the man and his style regardless of politics.

Still, if, like the Kennedy brothers, many of the old liberals came from eastern Ivy schools, it would seem that they'd have carried the Ivy style into their careers. But maybe it has to do with appearing to distance themselves a little from a conservative establishment? I sometimes sense that the way I dress--which attempts to emulate a kind of conservative way of dressing, I guess--makes me appear more conservative to others (in the real world) than I really am.


----------



## universitystripe

Duvel said:


> Maybe "unsettling" is too strong. Surprising, maybe, is a better word, although I like the conservative beliefs/conservative dress hypothesis, which makes it not so surprising after all. And of course I can still admire the man and his style regardless of politics.
> 
> Still, if, like the Kennedy brothers, many of the old liberals came from eastern Ivy schools, it would seem that they'd have carried the Ivy style into their careers. But maybe it has to do with appearing to distance themselves a little from a conservative establishment? I sometimes sense that the way I dress--which attempts to emulate a kind of conservative way of dressing, I guess--makes me appear more conservative to others (in the real world) than I really am.


I am often told I resemble a president of the Young Republicans by my left-leaning friends. I take it as a compliment.

It's well known that JFK made it a point to stop wearing the trad staples such as OCBDs and sack suits when he began running for high office. Bush, Sr. did the same (to a lesser extent). The clothing carries a message--educated, aristocratic, old money. It's not something that goes unnoticed in such egalitarian times.


----------



## Duvel

Interesting. To me, the OCBD feels more egalitarian than a regular dress shirt. But I get the connection to an old-money look.



universitystripe said:


> I am often told I resemble a president of the Young Republicans by my left-leaning friends. I take it as a compliment.
> 
> It's well known that JFK made it a point to stop wearing the *trad staples such as OCBDs *and sack suits when he began running for high office. Bush, Sr. did the same (to a lesser extent). *The clothing carries a message--educated, aristocratic, old money*. It's not something that goes unnoticed in such egalitarian times.


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

Duvel said:


> Maybe "unsettling" is too strong. Surprising, maybe, is a better word, although I like the conservative beliefs/conservative dress hypothesis, which makes it not so surprising after all. And of course I can still admire the man and his style regardless of politics.
> 
> Still, if, like the Kennedy brothers, many of the old liberals came from eastern Ivy schools, it would seem that they'd have carried the Ivy style into their careers. *But maybe it has to do with appearing to distance themselves a little from a conservative establishment?* I sometimes sense that the way I dress--which attempts to emulate a kind of conservative way of dressing, I guess--makes me appear more conservative to others (in the real world) than I really am.


I thought that after I posted earlier. For example, the "Man in the Grey Suit" symbol came to represent, to many 50s and 60s era liberals, middle-class conformity and, therefore, a symbol of "The Man", "The Establishment", or whatever else you want to call it. It underscores C. Wright Mills' 'power elite' theory. I digress...

For reasons just illustrated, I also agree with universitystripe that, "The clothing carries a message." I forget where I saw this, but a while back, for a sociology class a girl rudimentary tested this theory of how you dress and how people perceive and ultimately treat you. On three separate occasions she dressed as a "goth", "slut", and "preppy". The results were what you think they would be. Ergo, how you dress can also command how people treat you. In politics, if you are trying to appeal to the 'working man', donning trad apparel may, indeed, come across as 'aristocratic'.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> Interesting. To me, the OCBD feels more egalitarian than a regular dress shirt. But I get the connection to an old-money look.


I get it, too, but this sort of populism seems completely incoherent. I'm wearing a 40-year-old tweed jacket right now, and a 10-year-old OCBD. Who's more egalitarian, me or Jay-Z with his "Tom Ford" (I won't excerpt the lyrics here).


----------



## Natty Beau

Duvel said:


> Interesting. To me, the OCBD feels more egalitarian than a regular dress shirt. But I get the connection to an old-money look.


It seems backwards these days, but traditionally casual clothing was limited to the upper classes. And the self-confidence to dress casually came from having money and power.


----------



## prod

WrinkledKhakis - thanks for sharing this study, as I was thinking about it with my own students/school, where there is both a class and racial diversity. Would dress change the perception of students who had not previously been considered "academic"? 

It also reminded me of Put This On's video on Lo-Heads and the status of owning Polo. I get a kick out of considering the intersection of clothes and status, especially with teenagers.


----------



## SammyH

Natty Beau said:


> It seems backwards these days, but traditionally casual clothing was limited to the upper classes. And the self-confidence to dress casually came from having money and power.


This^. There was (and, I would argue, still is) a sense that dressing up a bit too much, "dressing to impress" ethos, signals class/status anxiety.


----------



## Duvel

Yes, exactly, just as clothes that look "too new" can do so. The supposed ethos among the truly trad and preppy is to wear clothes that you appear to have owned forever.



SammyH said:


> This^. There was (and, I would argue, still is) a sense that dressing up a bit too much, "dressing to impress" ethos, signals class/status anxiety.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

universitystripe said:


> It's not something that goes unnoticed in such egalitarian times.


Do we live in egalitarian times? My answer would be resounding no.


----------



## universitystripe

oxford cloth button down said:


> Do we live in egalitarian times? My answer would be resounding no.


I understand where you are coming from, OCBD. Those in power have established a sort of shame of being considered upper-class. Americans have never seen themselves as divided by class, but in the past 50 years or so even those truly aristocratic families have begun shedding those items of clothing which may mark them as wealthy. One need look no further than the differences between George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush.

I suspect it is all in the name of making the average American feel more at ease with the ruling class, especially when they are sliding so much by us so quietly.

As an aside, here is an interesting discussion point for teachers from pbs.com on #41:

_3. The preppy problem._
_George H.W. Bush's background and lifestyle were sometimes described as "preppy." To understand what this means, and why it might have mattered, hold a class brainstorm on the term "preppy." For example, what group of people (sometimes also called "WASPs") is sometimes referred to as preppy? Also, what does it mean when certain clothes, sports, or brand names are referred to as preppy? Discuss these questions as a class and use them to write a class definition of "preppy" on the board._

_Next, discuss why a public image of "preppiness" might create problems for an American politician -- especially during an era dominated by Ronald Reagan. What kind of a public image do presidential candidates try to present, and how might preppiness conflict with this image? Do you think Bush succeeded as well as other politicians at projecting the "proper" image?

_Source: PBS​


----------



## SammyH

oxford cloth button down said:


> Do we live in egalitarian times? My answer would be resounding no.


There has never been, nor will ever be, an "egalitarian time." There will, however, be times when egalitarian language and ideals flourish. Since the French Revolution, there's been a strong sentiment in favor of those ideals/language.


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

In terms of political rights and even in economic terms, we certainly living in egalitarian times, respectively--taking the long view of human history. In the United States, the most basic rights (speech, voting, due process, et al) are enjoyed by all citizens regardless of sex, race, gender, ect.. 100 yrs ago, women couldn't vote and vast racial segments of society were legally prevented from participating in civil affairs. Today, we bicker over issues that are small beer in comparison. Furthermore, while the so-called 'wealth gap' between the 'rich' and 'poor' is significantly large, we shouldn't mistake this for a lack of economic egalitarianism. For example, the rise and growth of the middle class over the last century is evidence of this egalitarian trend. I could continue but this isn't a proper thread to be hashing out socio-economics.


----------



## L-feld

I can come up with some examples of non-conservatives:

Malcolm X

Adlai Stevenson










Ed Koch

Irving Howe

Bernie "Collar Roll" Sanders

James Tobin










Joseph Stiglitz


----------



## Duvel

Interesting. During the era of liking Ike, my father, from what he tells me, was resolutely an Adlai man.


----------



## L-feld

Duvel said:


> Interesting. During the era of liking Ike, my father, from what he tells me, was resolutely an Adlai man.


So was Rivers Cuomo


----------



## SammyH

WrinkledKhakis said:


> In terms of political rights and even in economic terms, we certainly living in egalitarian times, respectively--taking the long view of human history. In the United States, the most basic rights (speech, voting, due process, et al) are enjoyed by all citizens regardless of sex, race, gender, ect.. 100 yrs ago, women couldn't vote and vast racial segments of society were legally prevented from participating in civil affairs. Today, we bicker over issues that are small beer in comparison. Furthermore, while the so-called 'wealth gap' between the 'rich' and 'poor' is significantly large, we shouldn't mistake this for a lack of economic egalitarianism. For example, the rise and growth of the middle class over the last century is evidence of this egalitarian trend. I could continue but this isn't a proper thread to be hashing out socio-economics.


Well, just a quick response: I take the radical, postmodernist "latitudinarians" (in the broadest sense) at their word. Personally, I believe hierarchy is a laudable thing and lament its erosion in ideals and language and in practice.


----------



## Duvel

AKA, Woody, AKA, the Wood Man. Got it.



L-feld said:


> So was Rivers Cuomo


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

Sammy H-
Oh, I agree. Hierarchy is inherently natural and necessary but its when that hierarchy becomes decadent and fails to properly guide civilization that it can and should be corrected--though, not in the manner that the French or Russians dealt with their ruling aristocracies. My family is still bitter about the French Revolution, which carried off one our member's heads, and the rise of Europe's democratic masses which tossed us out and now use one of our ancestral 'homes' as a national art museum.


----------



## universitystripe

On the subject of liberal Trad men...the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan:


----------



## L-feld

WrinkledKhakis said:


> Sammy H-
> Oh, I agree. Hierarchy is inherently natural and necessary but its when that hierarchy becomes decadent and fails to properly guide civilization that it can and should be corrected--though, not in the manner that the French or Russians dealt with their ruling aristocracies. My family is still bitter about the French Revolution, which carried off one our member's heads, and the rise of Europe's democratic masses which tossed us out and now use one of our ancestral 'homes' as a national art museum.


The titled aristocracy are the scum of the earth.


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

L-feld said:


> The titled aristocracy are the scum of the earth.


"Well, I could hardly despise them, could I? That would be self-hatred." Great movie, by the way.


----------



## thegovteach

universitystripe said:


> On the subject of liberal Trad men...the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan:


Glad you added the late senator/ambassador, he was a liberal and was about as trad as you could get...( loved the way he dressed.)


----------



## SammyH

WrinkledKhakis said:


> Sammy H-
> Oh, I agree. Hierarchy is inherently natural and necessary but its when that hierarchy becomes decadent and fails to properly guide civilization that it can and should be corrected--though, not in the manner that the French or Russians dealt with their ruling aristocracies. My family is still bitter about the French Revolution, which carried off one our member's heads, and the rise of Europe's democratic masses which tossed us out and now use one of our ancestral 'homes' as a national art museum.


I agree and can sympathize and have similar family history stories.



L-feld said:


> The titled aristocracy are the scum of the earth.


Correction: the entitled and the selfish and the snobbish and the cruel are the scum of the earth. Some of them are even found in titled aristocracy.


----------



## Jovan

Regarding politics, probably not surprising to many of you that I'm liberal in my political views. Mostly when it comes to social issues. But I'm not bothered by well dressed guys who happen to have different beliefs than me. While I disagree with much of what Buckley had to say, I would dress like him without problem. Same with H. W. Bush (but not his lesser dressed offspring).

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## ThePopinjay

thegovteach said:


> Glad you added the late senator/ambassador, he was a liberal and was about as trad as you could get...( loved the way he dressed.)


Agreed, I just google image searched him and the second or third pic was him in an emblematic tie with a reversible tweed/gabardine raincoat!


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

I'll get in on this DPM love with this video of him demonstrating how to tie a bowtie (I hope the video works--if it doesn't I found the link here: 



 ).


----------



## L-feld

WrinkledKhakis said:


> I'll get in on this DPM love with this video of him demonstrating how to tie a bowtie (I hope the video works--if it doesn't I found the link here:
> 
> 
> 
> ).


That made my day.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Duvel

We're a lot alike in that way. I'm about as liberal as one can be, politically. But most of the people I emulate in style are conservatives, and that includes the late Mr. Buckley.



Jovan said:


> Regarding politics, probably not surprising to many of you that I'm liberal in my political views. Mostly when it comes to social issues. But I'm not bothered by well dressed guys who happen to have different beliefs than me. While I disagree with much of what Buckley had to say, I would dress like him without problem. Same with H. W. Bush (but not his lesser dressed offspring).
> 
> Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Odradek

Cary Grant and Marilyn Monroe go for a joyride in _Monkey Business_ (1952).


----------



## universitystripe

Perhaps the most Trad video in existence: Daniel Patrick Moynihan on Firing Line with William F. Buckley, Jr.


----------



## Duvel

Perhaps. I also like Buckley's short appearance on Woody Allen's show.


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

Retired Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, David Souter.


----------



## Snow Hill Pond

Odradek said:


> Cary Grant and Marilyn Monroe go for a joyride in _Monkey Business_ (1952).


What's great about that film is that they show him buying that jacket. Someone comments "A little loud isn't it?" or "A little young isn't it?" or something to that effect.


----------



## Duvel

Shown here with the bottom button buttoned!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

WrinkledKhakis said:


> Retired Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, David Souter.


Thanks for posting this.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I would be stunned if no one had mentioned Gore Vidal before now. Of course, he turned down Harvard in order to go into the Army. I can't find an image of him wearing a button-down collar, but on the other hand, he's almost always in a navy blazer. Note that WFB has the upper button of 3 buttoned! To wit:


----------



## CMDC

^Not sure which of their duels that was from but there's a famous interchange where "crypto-Nazi" and "queen" were tossed around.


----------



## Duvel

Always the rebel, wasn't he.



SlideGuitarist said:


> I would be stunned if no one had mentioned Gore Vidal before now. Of course, he turned down Harvard in order to go into the Army. I can't find an image of him wearing a button-down collar, but on the other hand, he's almost always in a navy blazer. *Note that WFB has the upper button of 3 buttoned!* To wit:


----------



## gamma68

I like Buckley's sartorial sense, but find him rather pretentious, personally. 

I read somwhere a while back that he often wore JCP Stafford OCBDs. Has this ever been verified?


----------



## Duvel

This is a case where I liked the man's style in spite of never liking the man or his politics. And yes, at least on camera (I never met him), he could appear very pretentious.


----------



## WillBarrett

I had a professor at UA who was a Rhodes Scholar with Souter - told some hilarious anecdotes.


----------



## Himself

Love the pens! One of my alma mater's great ones -- Norman Rostoker, the "R" in the KKR method. RIP. Story here.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> I like Buckley's sartorial sense, but find him rather pretentious, personally.
> 
> I read somwhere a while back that he often wore JCP Stafford OCBDs. Has this ever been verified?


How perfectly WASPY of WFB to buy JCP OCBDs when you know he could afford BBs. Gives him more old-line street creed. And, yes, I know he was Catholic, but he was "WASPY" in his style.


----------



## SammyH

Fading Fast said:


> How perfectly WASPY of WFB to buy JCP OCBDs when you know he could afford BBs. Gives him more old-line street creed. And, yes, I know he was Catholic, but he was "WASPY" in his style.


I wouldn't doubt it for a moment. He was like that; and he also could be almost outrageously and ostentatiously cheap, lol.

He was absolutely hilarious in person; seriously, his wit just never stopped. And he always seemed like a very good and kind person.

Of course, I don't doubt his son's perspective (whom I've also met) either, but the person I knew was just extraordinary. You would walk away thinking: yes, the world is a very good and beautiful and meaningful place, and I'm glad there are unique persons like Buckley in it.


----------



## gamma68

SammyH said:


> I wouldn't doubt it for a moment. He was like that; and he also could be almost outrageously and ostentatiously cheap, lol.
> 
> He was absolutely hilarious in person; seriously, his wit just never stopped. And he always seemed like a very good and kind person.
> 
> Of course, I don't doubt his son's perspective (whom I've also met) either, but the person I knew was just extraordinary. You would walk away thinking: yes, the world is a very good and beautiful and meaningful place, and I'm glad there are unique persons like Buckley in it.


That's a nice testimony. Thank you for posting this and sharing your insights.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> That's a nice testimony. Thank you for posting this and sharing your insights.


Agreed - what a neat experience you've had to know the man. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

SammyH said:


> I wouldn't doubt it for a moment. He was like that; and he also could be almost outrageously and ostentatiously cheap, lol.
> 
> He was absolutely hilarious in person; seriously, his wit just never stopped. And he always seemed like a very good and kind person.
> 
> Of course, I don't doubt his son's perspective (whom I've also met) either, but the person I knew was just extraordinary. You would walk away thinking: yes, the world is a very good and beautiful and meaningful place, and I'm glad there are unique persons like Buckley in it.


Many writers who worked under him who moved left (e.g. Garry Wills) have good things to say about him. He aged better than Gore Vidal, that's for sure.


----------



## Duvel

Much as I abhor Buckley's political viewpoints, I nonetheless give him credit for a general civility and sense of decorum with his liberal counterparts. You don't find that much anymore, anywhere on the political spectrum.


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

WillBarrett said:


> I had a professor at UA who was a Rhodes Scholar with Souter - told some hilarious anecdotes.


Care to share some of those stories that your prof told?


----------



## L-feld

Cleveland villain, Baltimore hero, and wearer of polo coats at football games, Art Modell.






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Jovan

Buckley wearing a true three button seems to surprise people here. I think it was just a '60s style, not necessarily Ivy League, as I have a true three button suit and sport coat in my closet that otherwise reads like the "Trad" ideal. No darts, bald sleevehead, minimal shoulder (talking like two or three layers of canvas up there tops).


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

Paul Nitze, former Secretary of the Navy, Deputy Secretary of Defense, and co-founder of SAIS.


----------



## gamma68

Peter Jennings, 1966. Technically Canadian, but included for his Ivy Style.


----------



## Duvel

Indeed. Wow.



gamma68 said:


> Peter Jennings, 1966. Technically Canadian, but included for his Ivy Style.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

L-feld said:


> Cleveland villain, Baltimore hero, and wearer of polo coats at football games, Art Modell.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


SPIT!!


----------



## thegovteach

WouldaShoulda said:


> SPIT!!


I would add the late Houston Oiler, Tennesee Titan owner Bud Adams, but other than leaving Harris County in debt for building sky boxes he wanted and then leaving before they were paid for, the area is better off with the Texans...


----------



## ThePopinjay

L-feld said:


> Cleveland villain, Baltimore hero, and wearer of polo coats at football games, Art Modell.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


My previous employer recounted a story of Art Modell having a bad experience trying to buy ivy league stuff from Bunce Brothers in Cleveland, which was evidently rather anti-semitic. Apparently Art poached some salesmen, bought a house, and told them to set up an ivy league shop he wanted to buy from. I can't remember what that store was now though, maybe Cuffs up in Chagrin Falls?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

ThePopinjay said:


> My previous employer recounted a story of Art Modell having a bad experience trying to buy ivy league stuff from Bunce Brothers in Cleveland, which was evidently rather anti-semitic. Apparently Art poached some salesmen, bought a house, and told them to set up an ivy league shop he wanted to buy from. I can't remember what that store was now though, maybe Cuffs up in Chagrin Falls?


Interesting story PJ. I may be headed to Cuffs next month. I have a few meetings that way. We will see if I am up for it after 6 hours of meetings and the awaiting 3 hour drive.


----------



## Duvel

(Click to enlarge.) This photo always puzzled me, and I don't think I've read an explanation. It's obviously warm enough to swim outdoors but JFK is in a Shetland?


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> View attachment 13915
> 
> 
> (Click to enlarge.) This photo always puzzled me, and I don't think I've read an explanation. It's obviously warm enough to swim outdoors but JFK is in a Shetland?


Perhaps it is a nubby linen summer sweater - can't tell for sure from the photo, but it could be. If so, that would fit the season more.

Is this a crazy thought?


----------



## WipitDC

Sen. John McCain back in 1992 at the christening of the USS John S. McCain (named for his father and grandfather, who were both USN admirals).

He appears to be wearing a 3/2 sack jacket, cuffed trousers, an OCBD, and tassel loafers. Looks pretty good to me! Also, his son's attire is spot-on.


----------



## Duvel

Oh, dear.


----------



## WipitDC

Does he not meet the basic standards of what we are looking for here?



Duvel said:


> Oh, dear.


----------



## L-feld

WipitDC said:


> Does he not meet the basic standards of what we are looking for here?


Sack or not, it appears to be very ill-fitting. There's a prole gap and pulling at the middle button, to name a few defects. Not a look I'd want to hold up as an example of good style.

The kids are adorable, though.


----------



## ThePopinjay

L-feld said:


> The kids are adorable, though.


I was thinking the same thing, almost makes me like argyle.


----------



## mjo_1

WipitDC said:


> Does he not meet the basic standards of what we are looking for here?


I would think so. At the very least it's an interesting pic. After all, it's not the "American trad men in impeccably fitting garments only" thread.


----------



## Duvel

No. I see an OCBD and that's about it. A suit that looks neither trad nor good in the fit. In a word, boring.



WipitDC said:


> Does he not meet the basic standards of what we are looking for here?


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

The Boston Globe is running a story on Jeb Bush's years at Andover. The article provides a rather unique look into his years at that educational institution ("I drank alcohol and I smoked marijuana when I was at Andover"). Here's a picture of Jeb and his grandfather, surely up to this tread's Trad standards:


----------



## Duvel

You're gonna make us get out the troll patrol, aren't you. Ha ha. Yes! This surely is THE LOOK that we all aspire to.


----------



## WipitDC

Thank you, mjo_1. I agree with your comments.

Perfection or not, he is wearing trad elements and the photo is interesting.


----------



## L-feld

WrinkledKhakis said:


> The Boston Globe is running a story on Jeb Bush's years at Andover. The article provides a rather unique look into his years at that educational institution ("I drank alcohol and I smoked marijuana when I was at Andover"). Here's a picture of Jeb and his grandfather, surely up to this tread's Trad standards:


Jeb's got some sick flow, brah!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

WipitDC said:


> Sen. John McCain back in 1992 at the christening of the USS John S. McCain (named for his father and grandfather, who were both USN admirals).
> 
> He appears to be wearing a 3/2 sack jacket, cuffed trousers, an OCBD, and tassel loafers. Looks pretty good to me! Also, his son's attire is spot-on.


Great picture. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## gamma68

Hef


----------



## Jovan

^ Before he adopted the 24/7 smoking robe costume, he indeed looked like every other businessman in the USA.


----------



## SammyH

WrinkledKhakis said:


> The Boston Globe is running a story on Jeb Bush's years at Andover. The article provides a rather unique look into his years at that educational institution ("I drank alcohol and I smoked marijuana when I was at Andover"). Here's a picture of Jeb and his grandfather, surely up to this tread's Trad standards:


How absurd. Yes, an article just _happened_ to appear when the family feels it's "Jeb's Turn" to run for Prezzie. This family disgusts me. I went to school with Neil's son. Sorry I'm inebriated but they are a bunch of losers who for the good of the country should really just go away. And this is coming from a conservative.


----------



## Sir Cingle

Art critic Hilton Kramer:


----------



## SammyH

Sir Cingle said:


> Art critic Hilton Kramer:
> 
> View attachment 13992


Yeah, Hilton (RIP) was a very traddy dresser who was completely comfortable in his own skin and knew his clothes. He was an extraordinarily kind person.


----------



## SammyH

SammyH said:


> Yeah, Hilton (RIP) was a very traddy dresser who was completely comfortable in his own skin and knew his clothes. He was an *extraordinarily kind person*.


For example, many years ago I was attending a talk/gathering at a small gallery in Manhattan; I arrived not knowing a soul there. Was very young and I must have looked a bit lost. So, this total stranger comes up to me and starts to chat with me, introduces me to people, asked all about me, made me feel really and truly welcome. It turned out that this was the speaker for the evening; it turned out to be Mr. Hilton Kramer himself. LOL. That's the kind of guy he was. Lovely man. So unbelievably self-effacing.


----------



## SammyH

SammyH said:


> How absurd. Yes, an article just _happened_ to appear when the family feels it's "Jeb's Turn" to run for Prezzie. This family disgusts me. I went to school with Neil's son. Sorry I'm inebriated but they are a bunch of losers who for the good of the country should really just go away. And this is coming from a conservative.


Sammy, just between the two of us, I must say that you really shouldn't drink & post. Just sayin'


----------



## WrinkledKhakis

SammyH said:


> How absurd. Yes, an article just _happened_ to appear when the family feels it's "Jeb's Turn" to run for Prezzie. This family disgusts me. I went to school with Neil's son. Sorry I'm inebriated but they are a bunch of losers who for the good of the country should really just go away. And this is coming from a conservative.


You went to school with this rocket scientist?


----------



## SammyH

lol, that's funny, but nope. Was actually a different rocket scientist, different father. I was writing approximately to keep my anonymity.


----------



## gamma68

Frank Strozier, 1959:


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Gamma, if I'm ever in Detroit, I'll look you up.

I'd never heard of Frank Strozier, but if he can play with Booker Little and Paul Chambers...wow!


----------



## gamma68

SlideGuitarist said:


> Gamma, if I'm ever in Detroit, I'll look you up.
> 
> I'd never heard of Frank Strozier, but if he can play with Booker Little and Paul Chambers...wow!


Please do. I've got a lot of Booker Little LPs in my collection.


----------



## Tilton

SammyH said:


> lol, that's funny, but nope. Was actually a different rocket scientist, different father. I was writing approximately to keep my anonymity.


So basically no part of that was true? Why include it then, rather than just include the opinion that followed?


----------



## SammyH

Tilton said:


> So basically no part of that was true? Why include it then, rather than just include the opinion that followed?


What are you talking about? Different son, different father, different branch of the Bush family - I didn't want to reveal the school/person because I want to remain anonymous. I approximate much of what I write online for the same reason. Capiche?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Sammy H - I think he is saying that Neil Bush only has so many children. You stated that Neil Bush is the father of the child which you knew. This is what lead to his question.


----------



## Tilton

oxford cloth button down said:


> Sammy H - I think he is saying that Neil Bush only has so many children. You stated that Neil Bush is the father of the child which you knew. This is what lead to his question.


Correct.

It is pretty simple: if what you meant was "I went to school with someone from the Bush family," then why not just say that to begin with - especially when it puts your anonymity even less at stake? Often, less is more - we're not a crowd that needs constant name-dropping to think you're a cool guy.


----------



## gamma68

Anyway, how 'bout that Frank Strozier?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Richard Gere on a film set wearing single breasted polo coat.

https://postimg.org/image/yzhclw3hz/https://postimg.org/image/8ihsglv7f/https://postimg.org/image/hryzdqeuf/


----------



## Duvel

Gere. I've never been sure what to think of him. Anyway, the polo coat: They get a lot of love here, but to me they've always seemed more businessman than Ivy man. Not sure why, perhaps because the vibe is not casual enough, too dressy.


----------



## Fading Fast

Two thoughts: 

On Polo coats: while I guess that you first came across the Polo coat seeing it on businessmen - so your first impression became your view (happens to me all the time) - the coat's history is so Ivy it's silly. Started as the coat that Polo players (and later college football players) threw on when on the bench during the game and, then, was adopted by the fans - college students in the late '20s into the '30s. There are pictures of college games at Ivy schools in the '30s where a third of the crowd is wearing a Polo coat. The guy's girlfriends were stealing them for themselves so often, that BB started making a girl's model (don't remember the time period on this). I've never owned one, but have thought about it just because of its history. But I completely understand your view.

On Richard Gere: I met him once at a breakfast of about twenty people when he was doing research for a film he was staring in (I am not important, do not normally meet stars, this was an odd happenstance completely out of the norm in my life). He is surprisingly short, but even in his early '60s (I met him about four years ago), he was handsome and, more than that, had a energy - a charisma - that was more than the sum of his physical appearance. You got why he is a star.

I spoke with him for about ten or so minutes and he couldn't have been nicer. Also, he was wearing an incredibly gorgeous suit, shirt and tie - looked custom and tasteful, not Ivy, but classic. And his hair - in person it is thinning a bit overall - not bald, but a 60 year old's head of hair - it covered his head, but was not thick or full like a twenty year old. I mention this because when I then saw the movie he was filming at the same time, his hair was incredibly thick and full and it looked real. Hollywood make-up artists have their skills.


----------



## Duvel

Interesting, FF. I don't mean that I don't like him. He was actually an inspiration, many, many years ago, for my interest in Buddhism. I just don't feel enthusiastic about him, I guess, but your story sheds new light. 

Yes, on the polo, my bias certainly comes from seeing it worn, and not worn well, on business types. I have seen it in the canon of Ivy images, certainly. Still, overall, I like it less than other Ivy/trad coat styles.


----------



## randomdude2

Go see A Most Violent Year for non-stop Polo coat action. The main character wears one in almost every scene.


----------



## Duvel

Thanks. I have actually. Did nothing to help me love the coat, though.



randomdude2 said:


> Go see A Most Violent Year for non-stop Polo coat action. The main character wears one in almost every scene.


----------



## Doctor Damage

randomdude2 said:


> Go see A Most Violent Year for non-stop Polo coat action. The main character wears one in almost every scene.


https://postimg.org/image/idlxhukl3/https://postimg.org/image/3jt2w4rj1/https://postimg.org/image/d2dggb6sl/https://postimg.org/image/6jz6d15kv/https://postimg.org/image/4483ytkrh/https://postimg.org/image/3nsd58khj/


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Interesting, FF. I don't mean that I don't like him. He was actually an inspiration, many, many years ago, for my interest in Buddhism. I just don't feel enthusiastic about him, I guess, but your story sheds new light.
> 
> Yes, on the polo, my bias certainly comes from seeing it worn, and not worn well, on business types. I have seen it in the canon of Ivy images, certainly. Still, overall, I like it less than other Ivy/trad coat styles.


My girlfriend loves Richard Gere (when I sent her an iPhone shot of me with him, she nearly died), so over the years, I've seen a lot of his movies and I've come to respect him as an actor (well before I met him). He's not at his level, but he does have a Spencer Tracey quality to him of understated acting. But all that is opinion, I'm not trying to sell you on him.

As to the Polo coat - I love it's history, love it in theory, love it on others, but have no real passion to own one. In part, I think, because I would look washed out in a tan coat and, in part, because I could never keep it clean.


----------



## Duvel

I've seen it look good on others. On me, I look, and feel, too much like a businessman. My go-to winter overcoat is a very, very old tweedy balmacaan. My other is my beloved, and slightly old, duffle. I think my balmacaan is from the '50s, at least. The duffle was new to me in the mid-70s.


----------



## Natty Beau

Fading Fast said:


> As to the Polo coat - I love it's history, love it in theory, love it on others, but have no real passion to own one. In part, I think, because I would look washed out in a tan coat and, in part, because I could never keep it clean.


+1 on all counts. High maintenance overcoats are for men who never get their hands dirty, or can afford cleaning/replacements often--like the gentlemen horse breeders who made them popular.


----------



## Duvel

Good point. And maybe that's why I like my others so well. They're a little more rugged, or seem so to me.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Keeping something tan in colour clean in snow and salty winter weather is kind of hopeless. I don't mind a trenchcoat getting messed up, but camel hair is another matter. However they do have positives: I know a fellow in Calgary who wears one often and he washes his in his bathtub every few years and he says women compliment him on the coat virtually every time he wears it. There is something about tan camel hair overcoats than even idiots recognize as a high quality garment.


----------



## Odradek

Fading Fast said:


> I spoke with him for about ten or so minutes and he couldn't have been nicer. Also, he was wearing an incredibly gorgeous suit, shirt and tie - looked custom and tasteful, not Ivy, but classic. And his hair - in person it is thinning a bit overall - not bald, but a 60 year old's head of hair - it covered his head, but was not thick or full like a twenty year old. I mention this because when I then saw the movie he was filming at the same time, his hair was incredibly thick and full and it looked real. Hollywood make-up artists have their skills.


They do indeed, but these days a lot of that sort of cover up would be done digitally in post-production.
It was rumoured that $1 million was spent digitally painting in hair on Kevin Costner's bald spot in Waterworld.

That's 20 years ago, and like most computer related things, the price have fallen and it's use has increased hugely.
My wife works in film and TV post-production, and in one TV series she was on a while back, the studio execs had a coronary at what they perceived as excessive facial wrinkles on the 40-something female lead.
So, the whole first series was sent back to have wrinkles filled-in, frame by frame, much like in photoshop.


----------



## Odradek

Duvel said:


> Anyway, the polo coat: They get a lot of love here, but to me they've always seemed more businessman than Ivy man. Not sure why, perhaps because the vibe is not casual enough, too dressy.


I like them but my wife hates them, and my daughters just say, "_That's a Walter Hobbs coat_", in reference to the character from the movie "Elf". He was on the naughty list.


----------



## Jovan

SammyH said:


> Sammy, just between the two of us, I must say that you really shouldn't drink & post. Just sayin'


I think he should drink and post more often. It's not what some people want to hear, but what they should.


----------



## Fading Fast

Odradek said:


> They do indeed, but these days a lot of that sort of cover up would be done digitally in post-production.
> It was rumoured that $1 million was spent digitally painting in hair on Kevin Costner's bald spot in Waterworld.
> 
> That's 20 years ago, and like most computer related things, the price have fallen and it's use has increased hugely.
> My wife works in film and TV post-production, and in one TV series she was on a while back, the studio execs had a coronary at what they perceived as excessive facial wrinkles on the 40-something female lead.
> So, the whole first series was sent back to have wrinkles filled-in, frame by frame, much like in photoshop.


Thank you for the insider insight. Freakin' amazing.


----------



## Duvel

My wife insists that Mick Jagger's hair looks all fake, like it's all hair extensions.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> My wife insists that Mick Jagger's hair looks all fake, like it's all hair extensions.


As a long-time Stones' fan, I've often wondered about that incredible mop of hair that never seems to thin with age. And to tie it back to the thread: early '60s Rolling Stones dress had a lot of Ivy influences in it.


----------



## Duvel

Yes! In a few moments of boredom one day, I created a Facebook album of Ivy-influenced images of the Stones and other early 60s groups.

As for the hair, it could just be that he truly is blessed with a good, full head of hair. Usually, with something like this, you'll see at least one or two revealing paparazzi shots of the guy caught without his wig. I don't think there's one of these in existence for Jagger. And on stage, he does not seem to have to baby it, be careful of it, or anything. It still looks very much part of his head. I've seen a few men in real life, in their 60s, who have a full head of hair. Back in the day, Jagger had the best hair ever. It was as lovely as a man's hair possibly could be, better looking than the hair of most other guys who were growing their hair long. It had that "touchable" kind of appeal.



Fading Fast said:


> As a long-time Stones' fan, I've often wondered about that incredible mop of hair that never seems to thin with age. And to tie it back to the thread: *early '60s Rolling Stones dress had a lot of Ivy influences in it.*


----------



## AWZ

My alma mater posted this picture on their Facebook as a "throwback Thursday". I found it interesting because the coach is wearing madras during basketball season, which is in winter.







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## Duvel

Wow, those shorts are short.


----------



## AWZ

1983, womens basketball team.


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/x3wcyn9wn/https://postimg.org/image/pwjekimyr/


----------



## Duvel

I need coffee. Bad. I'm supposed to be Richard Gere in 15 minutes.


----------



## Ensiferous

General and Mrs. Lewis Burwell "Chesty" Puller


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Can't imagine anyone more Trad than "Chesty!" Thanks for sharing that pic of an American legend with us. :thumbs-up:


----------



## 127.72 MHz

^^ An American legend and dare I say icon for what it means to be an American. General Puller and his wife had their fair share of pain watching their son, following in his Father's footsteps, lose both of his legs to a mine in Vietnam. His son never fully recovered taking his own life years later.

None the less, a handsome couple.

Great post to include General Puller!


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

Caught this photo in this weekends WSJ - Langston Hughes in the 1930s.

Outstanding suit, tie, shirt, pocket square and hat.


----------



## Duvel

From forum member Katon's blog. It reminds me of Roycru's recent glamor shot.


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL. 'A Trad man's life' appears to be good...very good indeed. 

Gotta get me some of those "Dacron slacks!"


----------



## Jovan

Anyone else but me find it disturbing how A. he doesn't seem to be enjoying himself at all, B. the women are merely used as decorative props in this photo (I guess some things haven't changed from the '60s, sadly), and C. all of them are wearing the exact same thing?


----------



## Duvel

Um... no, no, and no.



Jovan said:


> Anyone else but me find it disturbing how A. he doesn't seem to be enjoying himself at all, B. the women are merely used as decorative props in this photo (I guess some things haven't changed from the '60s, sadly), and C. all of them are wearing the exact same thing?


----------



## Fading Fast

Before the gunfight over Jovan's post goes into full-on firefight mode, does anyone want to comment on Langston Hughes outrageously awesome suit? I thought it was a sport coat at first and, then, noticed that you catch just a bit of the matching trousers. What a cool suit. And you can just tell by the details that the man knows how to dress.


----------



## Duvel

Sorry about that. Yes. Great outfit for a truly great man. Thank you for the image, Fading.



Fading Fast said:


> Before the gunfight over Jovan's post goes into full-on firefight mode, does anyone want to comment on Langston Hughes outrageously awesome suit? I thought it was a sport coat at first and, then, noticed that you catch just a bit of the matching trousers. What a cool suit. And you can just tell by the details that the man knows how to dress.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Sorry about that. Yes. Great outfit for a truly great man. Thank you for the image, Fading.


Thank you Duvel - now the gunfight can resume.


----------



## Odradek

Jovan said:


> Anyone else but me find it disturbing how A. he doesn't seem to be enjoying himself at all, B. the women are merely used as decorative props in this photo (I guess some things haven't changed from the '60s, sadly), and C. all of them are wearing the exact same thing?


They're all wearing the same thing because they are all the same woman.
She just gets about.


----------



## Jovan

Not someone whose style I'd call Trad most of the time, but a great man nonetheless. We will all miss him.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Fading Fast said:


> ...Langston Hughes in the 1930s...


Great find! Thank you for posting it!

The novelist and critic Albert Murray favored heavy tweed jackets and knit ties; he's dressed that way in nearly every photo I've ever seen of him. I like this particular photo because of the contrast between the entertainer and the professor:


----------



## BillyB

Great photo. Thanks for posting. He was my hero when I was a kid. What can I say, I was a fan of Spock. Great look in that photo, Leonard.


----------



## Duvel

Great photo. Great man. I never liked the Spock character much, I have to admit. The detached, logical scientist, while an amusing foil to Kirk's impetuousness, was also irritating. It always felt like Spock was too good, setting an impossible ideal for any Irish-German kid like me to achieve.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse (D) of Rhode Island, just watched his response to Senator James Inhofe throwing a snowball on the senate floor.
I appreciate his choices in neckwear, his collar roll, and the tweed coat in the last pic.














I have this black tie with and white stripes! Mine is an old Brooks.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

The Sonics


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Dexys


----------



## Trotsky1940

I've been watching Mister Rogers with my three year old (so happy she likes it!) and have come to the realization that Mister Rogers was the influence on my love of trad. 







Every episode we've watched so far has Mr. Rogers with a collar bar and trad-as-hell tie and jacket. I love it!


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Could not agree more! A few weeks ago my wife and I were going out to dinner and I decided, since there was a nip in the air, to throw on a cardigan. Mrs. YSR stated, "you look like Mr. Rogers". I took that as a HUGE compliment hahaha.



Trotsky1940 said:


> I've been watching Mister Rogers with my three year old (so happy she likes it!) and have come to the realization that Mister Rogers was the influence on my love of trad.
> 
> Every episode we've watched so far has Mr. Rogers with a collar bar and trad-as-hell tie and jacket. I love it!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Fred Rodger's was always the consummate gentleman and reportedly the finest of neighbors (). Any of us would be well, with him as a role model! :thumbs-up:


----------



## Charles Dana

Fred Rogers' mother knitted the sweaters that he wore on his program.


----------



## Woofa

I thought that picture looked familiar.



YoungSoulRebel said:


> Dexys


----------



## ran23

You guys are so lucky to be able to toss on a shirt and tie now and them. My wife retired and is dressing down now. Does not want me in a tie and jacket. she returned to work 2 days a week, and I slip into a tie and feel good on my errands. I dress for myself. learned so much here about it.


----------



## Charles Dana

ran23 said:


> My wife retired and is dressing down now. Does not want me in a tie and jacket.


Wow. Just--wow. There's an inter-personal dynamic at work in your marriage that must go far beyond clothing. You need a forum all right, but I doubt this is it.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Nah, I get the "why are you dressing up" line from Mrs. YSR all of the time. I think when you are married to someone who looks around at the world, and sees how terrible most people are dressing, it might seem weird to your significant other. I know that she loves and appreciates how I look after myself, but it must seem odd at the same time. I think that its a fun, cool dynamic and I know I'm doing something right when even my wife thinks I am "dressed up" (usually just an ocbd and sport coat) hahaha.



Charles Dana said:


> Wow. Just--wow. There's an inter-personal dynamic at work in your marriage that must go far beyond clothing. You need a forum all right, but I doubt this is it.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Although it IS a bit of a cheat because they are English, not American.. this was their "ivy league" phase.



Woofa said:


> I thought that picture looked familiar.


----------



## MythReindeer

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Fred Rodger's was always the consummate gentleman and reportedly the finest of neighbors (). Any of us would be well, with him as a role model! :thumbs-up:


Yes, yes, yes. It is not a model that is easy to emulate, but I do keep him in mind when I am trying to determine what to do. Or, sometimes I think how I should have kept him in mind. There's a nice film called _Mister Rogers and Me_ by a younger guy who was Fred Rogers's neighbor for a time. I own it and recommend it.


----------



## ROI

gamma68 said:


> I like Buckley's sartorial sense, but find him rather pretentious, personally.
> 
> I read somwhere a while back that he often wore JCP Stafford OCBDs. Has this ever been verified?


I read (somewhere) that WFB disliked the bagginess of of the Brooks button-down oxford and got his at Saks, where they didn't object to narrowing the torso. Whether this was his life-long practice or a one-time, noteworthy (possibly in the fashion press) event, I can't say.


----------



## ROI

Moynihan picked up his taste in clothes the same place he picked up his accent.


----------



## Duvel




----------



## Howard

Trotsky1940 said:


> I've been watching Mister Rogers with my three year old (so happy she likes it!) and have come to the realization that Mister Rogers was the influence on my love of trad.
> 
> Every episode we've watched so far has Mr. Rogers with a collar bar and trad-as-hell tie and jacket. I love it!


I grew up watching Mr.Rogers and he was a part of my life.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Fred Rodger's was always the consummate gentleman and reportedly the finest of neighbors (). Any of us would be well, with him as a role model! :thumbs-up:


Won't you be his neighbor?


----------



## Duvel




----------



## L-feld

YoungSoulRebel said:


> Although it IS a bit of a cheat because they are English, not American.. this was their "ivy league" phase.


Well, if we're going to cheat, how about the Style Council with Mick in a sack rowing blazer and Paul looking like a UVA frat boy.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Jovan said:


> Anyone else but me find it disturbing how A. he doesn't seem to be enjoying himself at all, B. the women are merely used as decorative props in this photo (I guess some things haven't changed from the '60s, sadly), and C. all of them are wearing the exact same thing?


A. He appears to be enjoying himself in an oddly reserved way.

B. Of course they are.

C. Not only are they wearing the same thing, I believe they are the same girl.

The add agency has skipped over the twins fantasy and right to the triplet fantasy in a brilliant menage a quad!!


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Duvel said:


> Um... no, no, and no.


Exactly!!


----------



## jfkemd

L-feld said:


> Well, if we're going to cheat, how about the Style Council with Mick in a sack rowing blazer and Paul looking like a UVA frat boy.


nice!


----------



## Nolan

I'm not sure, the bunny's outfit doesn't strike me as trad, really.


----------



## Duvel

Bow tie isn't trad?



Nolan said:


> I'm not sure, the bunny's outfit doesn't strike me as trad, really.


----------



## corey

Maybe if bunny retied it to improve its symmetry JUST A HARE...


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I'm not a golf fan, but Ben Crenshaw sounds like a good guy:


----------



## gamma68

Jimmy Stewart


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

I know it's a stretch.... 
But I've always been a fan of Mr. Dreyfuss' look in "Jaws".



Quint knows how to wear a fisherman's jumper as well:


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> Jimmy Stewart


Jimmy Stewart had an incredible style - very classic American. You see it in his movies and in photos from his personal life. The guy loved clothes and knew how to wear them. He pops up regularly is the too-many books I've read on classic American clothing.


----------



## FLMike

SlideGuitarist said:


> I'm not a golf fan, but Ben Crenshaw sounds like a good guy:


A great guy, indeed. A real class act.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

YoungSoulRebel said:


> I know it's a stretch....
> But I've always been a fan of Mr. Dreyfuss' look in "Jaws".
> 
> Quint knows how to wear a fisherman's jumper as well:


I low-key want a seersucker jacket with anchors embroidered on it, like the Mayor's in the first scene.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> Jimmy Stewart had an incredible style - very classic American. You see it in his movies and in photos from his personal life. The guy loved clothes and knew how to wear them. He pops up regularly is the too-many books I've read on classic American clothing.


Absolutely. And to further illustrate your point, he maintained that style into his late years:


----------



## Fading Fast

Gamma, great photo and, as you said, proves the point. What's special about Stewart, as with all really good dressers, is that he knows what works for him, has his own style and he looks incredibly comfortable in his clothes. There's a book, "Hollywood Unseen," that shows pictures of the classic film stars of the '30-'50s in their private (but very staged) moments that has some great shots of a young Stewart looking fantastic and natural in classic American clothing.


----------



## SG_67

gamma68 said:


> Absolutely. And to further illustrate your point, he maintained that style into his late years:


Would you expect anything less from a Princeton man?


----------



## Duvel

W-why, uh, n-n-no, I, uh, uh, n-no I, I w-wouldn't.



SG_67 said:


> Would you expect anything less from a Princeton man?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> Gamma, great photo and, as you said, proves the point. What's special about Stewart, as with all really good dressers, is that he knows what works for him, has his own style and he looks incredibly comfortable in his clothes. There's a book, "Hollywood Unseen," that shows pictures of the classic film stars of the '30-'50s in their private (but very staged) moments that has some great shots of a young Stewart looking fantastic and natural in classic American clothing.


Thanks, I was not aware of that book.

I agree Stewart dressed well. I wish Boyer had done a book on him instead of Cooper.


----------



## cipofan

classic look


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's a profoundly un-trad look from one of the world's biggest purveyors of traditional American clothing:


----------



## SG_67

^ is that Ralph?


----------



## Duvel

I'm not sure I think of him that way. Preppy, certainly. Fashion, yes. Sometimes the line merges with trad, but is it really traditional the way J. Press, Brooks, O'Connells, and the like are?

In any case, a big "yuck!" to the socks and sandals. And maybe yuk-yuk, as well.



Doctor Damage said:


> Here's a profoundly un-trad look from *one of the world's biggest purveyors of traditional American clothing*:


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> Here's a profoundly un-trad look from one of the world's biggest purveyors of traditional American clothing:


Feels as if the sartorial atmosphere of the late '60s and '70s impacted even Ralph and his family.


----------



## HerrDavid

Saul Bellow from today's NY Times.


----------



## gamma68

Sidney Poitier


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> Sidney Poitier


Gamma, you are spot on. Poitier, in the '60s, rocked a Trad vibe right up there with Paul Newman. I'd have to do a little research because there is so much he did right, but I'd add - off the top of my head - "To Sir, With Love" and "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" as other great examples. And the movie your second picture is from - "A Patch of Blue -" is a hidden gem of a movie. I am amazed that it is not more well known as a movie away from its sartorial awesomeness.


----------



## Doctor Damage

nice penny loafers, appear to be Weejuns:


----------



## Duvel

This is a tangent, of course, but I post under a couple of excuses: 1) certainly the beatnik is either a trad guy in his own right or else a foil to the trad of the '50s; and 2) I used to love those old DC Jerry Lewis comic books when I was a kid. I think this is some funny stuff, and I'd probably appreciate the comic books more now as an older guy than I did as a 10-year-old.

The test of a truly great cartoonist, of course, is the rendering of the female figure. Mort Drucker passes with flying colors.


----------



## Duvel

Great photo, and a reminder of a couple of things I need to "acquire": 1) some long-sleeved polo shirts (I have none, but this is easy enough, cheap at the Bean); and 2) some expensive sunglasses (not as easy; need to check the vision plan).


----------



## Woofa

Duvel said:


> Great photo, and a reminder of a couple of things I need to "acquire": 1) some long-sleeved polo shirts (I have none, but this is easy enough, cheap at the Bean); and 2) some expensive sunglasses (not as easy; need to check the vision plan).


Don't stop there Duvel, the two most important things you need to bring off this look are:

1. 100 plus foot yacht;
2. Knowledge that Copernicus was wrong, the world actually revolves around you rather than the Sun. (Please note that number 2 is not available for purchase like number 1 but must be both bred into you as well as reinforced through decades of truly getting anything and everything you could possibly want.)


----------



## Duvel

RE 1, okay, I'll work on it. RE 2, I thought JFK was more selfless than that, but I'm not about to get into that here. 

Anyway, I'd be more interested in what you think of Beat Nick.


----------



## Woofa

And just to ensure that no one gets confused and starts to make this a political controversy. I make no remarks whatsoever about the JFK presidency here. Just trying to say that there are certain looks well nigh impossible to pull off without a history of money and priviledge and power behind you.

As for Beat Nick,

This is my first experience with this comic:

*Adventures of Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis* is the title of a comic book published by featuring the popular team of comedians and . The series ran for 40 issues from 1952 through 1957, at which time the title was renamed because of the factual breakup of the team. The title was continued as _The _ thereafter for issues #41-124.

I will need to see a little more of his stuff before calling him "Trad."


----------



## AldenPyle

Herman Wouk


----------



## AldenPyle

J
Joseph Mitchell


----------



## AldenPyle

Booth Tarkington


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Great photo, and a reminder of a couple of things I need to "acquire": 1) some long-sleeved polo shirts (I have none, but this is easy enough, cheap at the Bean); and 2) some expensive sunglasses (not as easy; need to check the vision plan).


It wouldn't hurt to have that head of hair either. I have a full head of hair and I would still need to double my follicle count to have that much.

It's funny, now that all that stuff has come out about his back and the pain he lived with, I swear I can see it in photos like this. It almost looks to me like he is holding himself in an awkward position to reduce the pain as you can see he is trying to suppresses a grimace.

Growing up, he looked like the picture of youth and vigor (and he definitely had vigor when called upon :great, but now that we know more, I swear I can see it - or is it just the power of suggestion?

And what do others think about long-sleeved polos - I might have had one as a kid, but haven't since? I think it might be something that is good in theory, but I'd never wear if I had it?


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> It's funny, now that all that stuff has come out about [President Kennedy's] back and the pain he lived with, I swear I can see it in photos like this. It almost looks to me like he is holding himself in an awkward position to reduce the pain as you can see he is trying to suppresses a grimace.
> 
> Growing up, he looked like the picture of youth and vigor...but now that we know more, I swear I can see it - or is it just the power of suggestion?
> 
> And what do others think about long-sleeved polos?... I think it might be something that is good in theory, but I'd never wear if I had it?


As far as I can discern from what I've read, it is not merely the power of suggestion. JFK reportedly was in constant pain, and had to use tremendous willpower to forge onward. Simple actions that we take for granted--settling into and then getting out of a chair, for example--were a real effort for JFK. Some people have said that he looked surprisingly frail in person, and that he had the gait of a much older man.

Remember, too, that he always wore a back brace, which--in addition to the ongoing pain--would help to account for his often awkward posture.

Regarding long-sleeved polos: I don't have any. I don't dislike them; it's just that there are so many other types of long-sleeved shirts that I like more, so I have never gotten around to putting any of them on my wish list. Lists, actually.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

I'm a fan, have a few from Lacoste and Brooks. They, as well as rugby shirts fill a niche for me. Great for walking the dog on the beach or neighborhood chores. 
Here is one of my Lacoste numbers, the wife calls me "Preppy Freddy Kruger" when I wear it haha



Fading Fast said:


> It wouldn't hurt to have that head of hair either. I have a full head of hair and I would still need to double my follicle count to have that much.
> 
> It's funny, now that all that stuff has come out about his back and the pain he lived with, I swear I can see it in photos like this. It almost looks to me like he is holding himself in an awkward position to reduce the pain as you can see he is trying to suppresses a grimace.
> 
> Growing up, he looked like the picture of youth and vigor (and he definitely had vigor when called upon :great, but now that we know more, I swear I can see it - or is it just the power of suggestion?
> 
> And what do others think about long-sleeved polos - I might have had one as a kid, but haven't since? I think it might be something that is good in theory, but I'd never wear if I had it?


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> It's funny, now that all that stuff has come out about his back and the pain he lived with, I swear I can see it in photos like this. It almost looks to me like he is holding himself in an awkward position to reduce the pain as you can see he is trying to suppresses a grimace.
> 
> Growing up, he looked like the picture of youth and vigor (and he definitely had vigor when called upon :great, but now that we know more, I swear I can see it - or is it just the power of suggestion?
> 
> And what do others think about long-sleeved polos - I might have had one as a kid, but haven't since? I think it might be something that is good in theory, but I'd never wear if I had it?


As someone who has had lower back surgery and has degenerative discs, I can attest to having to shift my seating position often to account for back pain. I think of this every time I see a JFK photo.

As for long-sleeve polos, I don't own any and think I'd rather wear an OCBD.


----------



## universitystripe

Robert Sumwalt on last week's Face the Nation


----------



## fred johnson

I have quite a few long sleeved polos which I wear in early spring, early fall or for early morning golf times. LLB does makes the best IMHO, collar keeps its shape unlike PRL ones. 


Duvel said:


> Great photo, and a reminder of a couple of things I need to "acquire": 1) some long-sleeved polo shirts (I have none, but this is easy enough, cheap at the Bean); and 2) some expensive sunglasses (not as easy; need to check the vision plan).


----------



## SlideGuitarist

AldenPyle said:


> Herman Wouk


I have to admit that I had not known Wouk as more than a name on my parents' old books, or the books left in a vacation house; I think I need to fix that: https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...f-the-greatest-american-war-novelists/393203/. Plus, if that jacket is linen, I love it, and even if not.


----------



## Duvel

Would've been to see a dimple in that tie knot.



universitystripe said:


> Robert Sumwalt on last week's Face the Nation


----------



## fred johnson

Duvel said:


> Would've been to see a dimple in that tie knot.


Agree about the dimple, and maybe a PS.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Not really a "man" but, I LOVE the look on Jr. Ivy's face! His mind must have been totally blown haha!


----------



## Yates

*Masterful*



universitystripe said:


> Robert Sumwalt on last week's Face the Nation


I caught him a bit earlier on another network. Don't remember the program but I was taken with the eyeglasses and shirt.

I'm not sure the oddly-angled windowpane fabric is doing him any favors, nor are the linebacker's pads he's wearing under that jacket, but points for trying. I wonder if this outfit was an image consultant's compromise?

Can anyone place the necktie? I have a Seaward & Stern from O'Connell's that is the mirror image:

I'd love to pick up Sumwalt's version for national holidays.


----------



## HerrDavid

Vincent Scully


----------



## AldenPyle

SlideGuitarist said:


> I have to admit that I had not known Wouk as more than a name on my parents' old books, or the books left in a vacation house; I think I need to fix that: https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...f-the-greatest-american-war-novelists/393203/. Plus, if that jacket is linen, I love it, and even if not.


Thats a persuasive article, but actually the critical consensus is right. "The Caine Mutiny" is definitely worth reading, a page turner with some literary qualities probably drawn from life. The "War" novels were fun beach reads, I think, but best left to the 1970's.


----------



## NorthMan

E. Gordon Gee


----------



## L-feld

My favorite Yale grad, Lloyd Kaufman.


----------



## Roycru

A picture that I took at Albuquerque NM in December 1965 when I was working for the Santa Fe Railway and all the Pullman passengers were Trad.


----------



## Doctor Damage

YoungSoulRebel said:


> Not really a "man" but, I LOVE the look on Jr. Ivy's face! His mind must have been totally blown haha!


This reminds me of Hunter S Thompson going to meet the H.A. for the first time while wearing a madras sport coat.


----------



## Duvel




----------



## Duvel

Steve McQueen speaking with Napoleon Solo about an U.N.C.L.E. affair.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Telegraph room, U.S. State Dept. 1957


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## adept

This is a personal note. Scrolling all these images kept reminding me of a photograph I knew existed, thought I might possess, and hoped to locate...and so I have.

It was known when I was younger that my dad rarely, if ever, left the house without wearing a white shirt, tie, appropriate trousers and shoes, and of course, a hat. If anyone may doubt that, understandably so, here is the photograph from 1960 I was referencing. He's tinkering with something, sitting on the ground. Having numerous sons, he never needed to dress for any "work" around the yard, and never varied from his daily attire. (Disregard the date above, could be from a re-print, since he died in 1968. The year is written on the back side of the photo.)

My heightened observation, from frequenting this web site, brings more fondness for the photo, which I have not seen in many years, than I heretofore had. Note the tie clasp (they were not called tie bars in those days), the cuffs and argyles. I have to say I expected more black, since that was what I vaguely remembered, but I guess he was mindful of the season.

He was not ivy league, as his _alma mater _adopted the moniker, "Champions of the West". He also did a stint at waiter at the Pretzel Bell.

Thanks for listening and looking.


----------



## Charles Dana

adept said:


> Thanks for listening and looking.


Adept: I think your memory is playing tricks on you. That's not your dad; it is, as any film buff can easily see, the actor Gene Hackman on location in 1967, taking a break during the filming of Bonnie and Clyde.

Seriously, it is a charming photo. Thank you for posting it, along with some of your fond memories.


----------



## Duvel

Best movie, and also a "trad" stylish move, is _The Conversation. _


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> Adept: I think your memory is playing tricks on you. That's not your dad; it is, as any film buff can easily see, the actor Gene Hackman on location in 1967, taking a break during the filming of Bonnie and Clyde.
> 
> Seriously, it is a charming photo. Thank you for posting it, along with some of your fond memories.


I saw the Hackman resembles as well. And yes, very nice memory. Your Dad looks great.


----------



## eagle2250

adept said:


> This is a personal note. Scrolling all these images kept reminding me of a photograph I knew existed, thought I might possess, and hoped to locate...and so I have.
> 
> It was known when I was younger that my dad rarely, if ever, left the house without wearing a white shirt, tie, appropriate trousers and shoes, and of course, a hat. If anyone may doubt that, understandably so, here is the photograph from 1960 I was referencing. He's tinkering with something, sitting on the ground. Having numerous sons, he never needed to dress for any "work" around the yard, and never varied from his daily attire. (Disregard the date above, could be from a re-print, since he died in 1968. The year is written on the back side of the photo.)
> 
> My heightened observation, from frequenting this web site, brings more fondness for the photo, which I have not seen in many years, than I heretofore had. Note the tie clasp (they were not called tie bars in those days), the cuffs and argyles. I have to say I expected more black, since that was what I vaguely remembered, but I guess he was mindful of the season.
> 
> He was not ivy league, as his _alma mater _adopted the moniker, "Champions of the West". He also did a stint at waiter at the Pretzel Bell.
> 
> Thanks for listening and looking.


Indeed, a picture showcasing the type of Dad we might all wish we had. From your memories of your Dad he strikes me as being a very real family treasure...but then those positive values also seem to be present in the son. Thank you, adept, for sharing the picture, but even more significantly, the memories!


----------



## adept

Thank you, gentlemen, for the kind comments. I have to thank the proprietor and membership of the forum, also. With the perspective gained here I just had to find that photo and take a closer look at what he was wearing!


----------



## Duvel

Sorry, I thought it really was Hackman and you were punking us! Very charming photo of your father.


----------



## adept

Duvel said:


> Sorry, I thought it really was Hackman and you were punking us! Very charming photo of your father.


Ha...you guys are a riot! He was of small stature, his children all outgrew him by more than a little. Wasn't Hackman a bigger guy? I'm sure there are pics of him in the preceding posts.


----------



## Roycru

Things started going horribly wrong after 1965........

https://framework.latimes.com/2015/07/08/50-longhairs-protest-clipping-order/


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SlideGuitarist said:


> I have to admit that I had not known Wouk as more than a name on my parents' old books, or the books left in a vacation house; I think I need to fix that: https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...f-the-greatest-american-war-novelists/393203/. Plus, if that jacket is linen, I love it, and even if not.


Could be slubby dupioni silk, which you can't get anymore.



L-feld said:


> My favorite Yale grad, Lloyd Kaufman.


When I met him, he was in a guncheck jacket, beat-up saddle shoes, and slightly threadbare bright green cords.


----------



## L-feld

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> When I met him, he was in a guncheck jacket, beat-up saddle shoes, and slightly threadbare bright green cords.


He's truly a magical unicorn.

I always dream that there is a country club full of weird, preppy, left-leaning Jews, where people like Lloyd Kaufman, Woody Allen, and Bernie Sanders congregate. A place where I would really fit in. Probably somewhere in the Catskills.

But alas, none of them would join a club that would have someone like them for a member.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Doctor Damage

adept said:


> I have to say I expected more black, since that was what I vaguely remembered, but I guess he was mindful of the season.


I think you will find that black is a 'recent' clothing colour, and what you remember as black is more likely to have been dark blues and greys. Except for black leather, of course.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Duvel said:


> ...and also a "trad" stylish move, is "The Conversation".


A mostly forgotten movie but with story themes even more relevant today, unfortunately. Watch for an unbilled Robert Duvall wearing Gucci loafers.

I strongly recommend you check out "Charley Varrick" starring Walter Matthau(sp). He schleps around in some nice clothing, in his rumpled way. Plus the movie is simply excellent.


----------



## adept

Doctor Damage said:


> I think you will find that black is a 'recent' clothing colour, and what you remember as black is more likely to have been dark blues and greys. Except for black leather, of course.


I think you're right...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> And what do others think about long-sleeved polos - I might have had one as a kid, but haven't since? I think it might be something that is good in theory, but I'd never wear if I had it?


I have one and it's probably my favourite shirt, useful almost all the time whenever a jacket isn't called for. Get one in a darkish colour, probably navy blue, and make sure it's not too big. It can be worn with everything from grey flannels to shorts.


----------



## adept

One of my fave old movies, North by Northwest was on TCM last night. Cary Grant's wardrobe consisted of just one suit, and the jacket looks to be a 3-2 sack...


----------



## Fading Fast

Adept, you have good taste as you have innocently pointed out one of the most talked about and appreciated suits in Trad lore.


----------



## Duvel

One of my favorite movies, too. Great wardrobe on all the characters in that movie; each wardrobe befits the character. Grant's character is a Madison Avenue ad man, thus the Brooks Brothers grey sack suit so ubiquitous among his kind at the time. it also stresses his anonymity, his every man quality, in contrast to his mistaken identity as a rogue spy.


----------



## adept

> one of the most talked about and appreciated suits in Trad lore


And perhaps celluloid literature, as well.

Unfortunately, the pic does not show it well enough, but in this and other shots, the button loop on the roll of the lapel is undeniably there.


----------



## Duvel

I wrote a term paper on the movie that my prof helped me turn into a published cinema studies journal article.



adept said:


> And perhaps celluloid literature, as well.
> 
> Unfortunately, the pic does not show it well enough, but in this and other shots, the button loop on the roll of the lapel is undeniably there.


----------



## adept

Outstanding...


----------



## Duvel

It had little to do with the wardrobe, though.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I wrote a term paper on the movie that my prof helped me turn into a published cinema studies journal article.


That's impressive. Kudos.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> One of my favorite movies, too. Great wardrobe on all the characters in that movie; each wardrobe befits the character. Grant's character is a Madison Avenue ad man, thus the Brooks Brothers grey sack suit so ubiquitous among his kind at the time. it also stresses his anonymity, his every man quality, in contrast to his mistaken identity as a rogue spy.


We don't talk about it much here - for good reason, as it's not our raison detre - but "North by Northwest," and almost all of Hitchcock's movies, have incredible clothes for the female characters as well as the men. And since several of his biggest movies were done in the '50s, the trad influences in the women clothes are apparent. Some of the outfits would still work today (which is much less common in women's dress than in men's) and, even if the full outfit wouldn't work, you can still see its influences in today's women's clothes.


----------



## Duvel

True. I've watched Hitch so much, I almost know his movies by heart. But one reason i enjoy rewatching them is for the elegance and the timelessness of the wardrobe. Then again, his movies have an elegance that runs through everything, wardrobe, sets, writing, shots.



Fading Fast said:


> We don't talk about it much here - for good reason, as it's not our raison detre - but "North by Northwest," and almost all of Hitchcock's movies, have incredible clothes for the female characters as well as the men. And since several of his biggest movies were done in the '50s, the trad influences in the women clothes are apparent. Some of the outfits would still work today (which is much less common in women's dress than in men's) and, even if the full outfit wouldn't work, you can still see its influences in today's women's clothes.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> It had little to do with the wardrobe, though.


It should have been, though! From https://granta.com/Cary-Grant%92s-Suit/: "_North by Northwest_ isn't a film about what happens to Cary Grant, it's abou what happens to his suit." Further, from : "And [Richard] Torregrossa [in _Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style_] stumbles when it comes to one big thing. He devotes four pages to explicating what's wrong with ventless jackets, how Grant came to eschew them, why double vents look best (they don't), and the ways Grant modified his vents. He then holds up that perfectly tailored slim-line suit Grant wore during his cross-country travails in North by Northwest as an example of the star's preference for customized vents. Torregrossa is talking here about the most famous suit in pictures. Todd McEwen wrote a smart and stylish Granta essay on it (North by Northwest isn't a film about what happens to Cary Grant, it's about what happens to his suit"). GQ has declared it nothing less than the best suit in film history. It's ventless."


----------



## Duvel

Yep. I would agree. Something like that happens in The Graduate, although with Dustin it's not all about one suit. But as he changes over the movie, so does his wardrobe.


----------



## adept

Roycru said:


> Things started going horribly wrong after 1965........
> 
> https://framework.latimes.com/2015/07/08/50-longhairs-protest-clipping-order/


LOL

Evidently the decline was still going strong in 1969...


----------



## Duvel

What I love about this photo: Of the three, only Miles has the sense and taste not to wear a Hawaiian shirt. Note also the beef-roll loafers!


----------



## my19

Duvel said:


> What I love about this photo: Of the three, only Miles has the sense and taste not to wear a Hawaiian shirt. Note also the beef-roll loafers!


Yo, Chet, a Hawaiian shirt AND a t-shirt?


----------



## Duvel

I know. Very uncool.


----------



## Charles Dana

Duvel said:


> True. I've watched Hitch so much, I almost know his movies by heart. But one reason i enjoy rewatching them is for the elegance and the timelessness of the wardrobe. Then again, his movies have an elegance that runs through everything, wardrobe, sets, writing, shots.


You'll see the best in men's tailored clothing during each decade from the 1930s through the 1960s by watching Alfred Hitchcock's movies from each of those periods.

A long time ago, I read an article somewhere in which Hitchcock was quoted as stating this: that he liked to see the male lead in his movies start out perfectly tailored and then, over the course of the picture, gradually become more disheveled and grimy as he confronts one arduous challenge after another in pursuit of whatever he's pursuing (i.e., the MacGuffin). You can see this process, for example, in The 39 Steps, North by Northwest, and The Birds.


----------



## Duvel

Interesting. That's how my days go, too, in the daily pursuit of my career. Pressed at 8 a.m., a mess by 5.



Charles Dana said:


> You'll see the best in men's tailored clothing during each decade from the 1930s through the 1960s by watching Alfred Hitchcock's movies from each of those periods.
> 
> A long time ago, I read an article somewhere in which Hitchcock was quoted as stating this: that he liked to see the male lead in his movies start out perfectly tailored and then, over the course of the picture, gradually become more disheveled and grimy as he confronts one arduous challenge after another in pursuit of whatever he's pursuing (i.e., the MacGuffin). You can see this process, for example, in The 39 Steps, North by Northwest, and The Birds.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Awesome photo of Murray! What's the context/link?


----------



## Duvel

That looks like a publicity shot or cast photo from Wes Anderson's MOONRISE KINGDOM.

As for it being trad, I'm on the fence. Eyeglasses are the most trad element here. Madras patch pants, okay, but could they be uglier? And loafers, sure, but with black socks? And what exactly is that shirt?


----------



## bignilk

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Awesome photo of Murray! What's the context/link?


Not sure of the context, just saw it browsing tumblr and thought of this thread.


----------



## Duvel

MOONRISE KINGDOM, I tell you. MOONRISE KINGDOM!












bignilk said:


> Not sure of the context, just saw it browsing tumblr and thought of this thread.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Duvel said:


> That looks like a publicity shot or cast photo from Wes Anderson's MOONRISE KINGDOM.


Thanks for the info. I bought a copy of that film a while back haven't watched it yet. Good reminder.


> As for it being trad, I'm on the fence. Eyeglasses are the most trad element here. Madras patch pants, okay, but could they be uglier? And loafers, sure, but with black socks? And what exactly is that shirt?


OMG you sound like some guy from over there ranting about how his property's black sheet isn't black enough and doesn't completely cover her feet or her eyes. Jeezuz... reading this forum lately I've been getting the sense trad has been so refined and edited that it's now a totally separate style from it's classic ivy league look and preppy antecedents. If so, then it's as cartoonish as the Rugged NYC Lumberjack style, or the White Suburban Middle Class Gangster style, and about as irrelevant to the real world.


----------



## bignilk

I'm starting to think it has something to do with Moonrise Kingdom.


----------



## Duvel

It's a pretty good movie. Not my favorite of his, but not bad. I like his earlier stuff best and the last one, GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL.

I can see your point about my trad point. However, here's the thing: How wide do you open the doors? Is everything and anything trad? What then is the difference? Of course, I think a lot of this is up to individual taste and sensibilities. For me, I'm sorry, but any kind of white shirt is not trad. Black socks are ugly, especially with loafers. Sorry, but from what I sense is trad and what is not trad, good old Bill Murray's outfit is merely eccentric, not trad.

And "real world?" What the hell is that and WTF does it have to do with anything?

So OMG right back at you.



Doctor Damage said:


> Thanks for the info. I bought a copy of that film a while back haven't watched it yet. Good reminder.
> 
> OMG you sound like some guy from over there ranting about how his property's black sheet isn't black enough and doesn't completely cover her feet or her eyes. Jeezuz... reading this forum lately I've been getting the sense trad has been so refined and edited that it's now a totally separate style from it's classic ivy league look and preppy antecedents. If so, then it's as cartoonish as the Rugged NYC Lumberjack style, or the White Suburban Middle Class Gangster style, and about as irrelevant to the real world.


----------



## Tom Buchanan

/\ Its funny, but I think the Bill Murray picture gives a pretty accurate likeness of some older trad men I have seen. 

The shirt looks like the classic, Brooks Brothers forward point oxford. The pants strike me as something a middle-age trad might pick up to shock his golf buddies (or something his wife might pick up on sale for fun). The loafers look good.

As to the black socks, I have seen more than one older trad who could not be bothered to wear anything other than his standard black dress socks. Earlier this summer, I was a guest at a pretty trad club and saw an older guy wearing shorts, a polo shirt, and black socks and black tassel loafers. Maybe he changed from his work clothes and didn't have other shoes in his locker. Not a look that I would recommend, but pretty funny to see.


----------



## Duvel

Okay, I'll give. However, it's an example of trad that is definitley outside my taste range.


----------



## Charles Dana

Duvel said:


> How wide do you open the doors? Is everything and anything trad? What then is the difference? For me, I'm sorry, but any kind of white shirt is not trad.


I agree that Tradland has its borders, fuzzy and porous though they may be. But your comment about white shirts surprised me. What about the ever-popular white OCBD? I agree that of all OCBDs, the light blue is the most versatile. I also agree that Bill Murray's white point-collar shirt is not Trad. But is a white OCBD merely an undocumented immigrant in Tradland?


----------



## Duvel

Well, that's what I meant. I don't see a point collar as particularly trad. I see it as particularly lounge lizard. 

White ocbd? Yes. Trad all the way.


----------



## Charles Dana

Duvel said:


> Well, that's what I meant. I don't see a point collar as particularly trad. I see it as particularly lounge lizard.
> 
> White ocbd? Yes. Trad all the way.


Ah, that's better. William F. Buckley Jr. can stop spinning.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

I am 100% in agreement about black socks... I'm not saying they are "not Trad" but with so many other options, why go with black? Especially with that outfit.



Duvel said:


> It's a pretty good movie. Not my favorite of his, but not bad. I like his earlier stuff best and the last one, GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL.
> 
> I can see your point about my trad point. However, here's the thing: How wide do you open the doors? Is everything and anything trad? What then is the difference? Of course, I think a lot of this is up to individual taste and sensibilities. For me, I'm sorry, but any kind of white shirt is not trad. Black socks are ugly, especially with loafers. Sorry, but from what I sense is trad and what is not trad, good old Bill Murray's outfit is merely eccentric, not trad.
> 
> And "real world?" What the hell is that and WTF does it have to do with anything?
> 
> So OMG right back at you.


----------



## HerrDavid

I'm sure J Press would love to know that they cater to the lounge lizard set!


----------



## Duvel

Hate it. Sign of the times, I guess--they must need to expand their customer base.



HerrDavid said:


> I'm sure J Press would love to know that they cater to the lounge lizard set!


----------



## Spin Evans

Are we certain the socks ain't navy? They would be an appropriate choice for patchwork madras.


----------



## gamma68

I don't know where this sudden flush of righteousness comes from. One can have a personal preference, but no one here is the ultimate authority on Ivy Style. 

Nothing is wrong with what Murray is wearing in that photo. Go just about anywhere in modern society and you'll easily find men who look absolutely sloppy. Murray looks like he's ready for a Trad BBQ to me. Heck, I might try to find some patchwork madras pants now. 

I personally don't wear point collars without a tie, but Murray's look is only a slight variation from the OCBD. As for the socks, they could be navy, as Spin points out. I'd more likely go sans socks with the loafers.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Duvel said:


> Well, that's what I meant. I don't see a point collar as particularly trad. I see it as particularly lounge lizard.


The point collar and black socks are good, smart costuming. Note the monogram. Murray's character isn't quite at home being at leisure. Thus, he's not wearing a truly casual shirt, he's wearing the same shirts he wears in court - and as a somewhat square guy, he could well subscribe to that '50s notion that the only shirt for a professional is a white shirt, and the BD collar was not universal for business at that point, as far as I know.

And if you think white shirts (and point collars) ain't trad, you're subscribing to a revisionist version of trad (or stating a preference as fact), rather than what people actually wore when the Ivy look was popular. But hey, I personally don't like half-sleeve shirts, which were what people wore back then too.


----------



## Duvel

Geeze. Guess I touched a nerve. LOL.


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> Geeze. Guess I touched a nerve. LOL.


Well, when one starts stating preferences as facts (as YRR points out above), yes, that will generate reactions.


----------



## Duvel

Well, when one assumes that when somebody says "I see it as..." he means it as fact, then someone is not reading carefully.

But I will say this, as I see it: "Anything other than a button-down collar is for lounge lizards."



gamma68 said:


> Well, when one starts stating preferences as facts (as YRR points out above), yes, that will generate reactions.


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Before spread or windsor collars captured the imagination of clothiers, your only real choices were the classic straight collar or a button down collar. Brooks Brothers sells plenty of them in all of their cuts.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Non-Iron-Regent-Fit-Point-Collar-Dress-Shirt/224Q,default,pd.html

To each their own. I also prefer a button down for all but the most formal ocassions also, but nothing wrong with a point collar.


----------



## Duvel

True. There's nothing wrong with a point collar. If you're a lounge lizard.

Ha ha.

I jest. Of course, there's nothing wrong with it, per se. There's only something wrong with it if you don't like it. I happen not to like it. I personally don't see it as all that "trad," which is not to say it doesn't fit in men's style/fashion somewhere.


----------



## gamma68

This silly debate about point collars reminds me of Giueseppe of An Affordable Wardrobe, who has a penchant for wearing his button-down collars_ un-buttoned_:


----------



## adept

Not to mention a casual linen shirt from Orvis that I have...button down with _hidden_ buttons...


----------



## ruvort

gamma68 said:


> This silly debate about point collars reminds me of Giueseppe of An Affordable Wardrobe, who has a penchant for wearing his button-down collars_ un-buttoned_:


I personally can't get behind the unbuttoned collars on a button down shirt. To me, its akin to wearing a belt but not fastening it, purposely missing belt loops, or leaving your fly down.

Sent from my LG-VS980 using Tapatalk


----------



## Duvel

Silly? This is serious! And what's there to debate when it is so obviously true?


----------



## L-feld

Notable lounge lizards:





Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


----------



## Duvel

Yeah, not good. Everyone's allowed to make a mistake, even the best.


----------



## HerrDavid

If only we all made such mistakes!

Incidentally, while in graduate school I once served as a teaching assistant to Elliot Richardson's son. Didn't dress like his dad (alas), but he did take his TAs out to lunch every week, so I wasn't complaining.


----------



## adept

Indulge me a few more...

Mom and dad, October 1941










Here's his brother, my uncle, which is a great representative example of his casual nature and personality. He traveled extensively to the UK, and his cohorts there would often say to him, "You Americans are so _casual_..." He was very amused by that. I'm guessing the date on this to be late 40's, early 50's...


----------



## Fading Fast

Adept,

Your mom and dad look great - wonderful picture. 

And your uncle's style and personality - he looks very comfortable in his own skin - comes shining through. A shirt, a hat and a smile - it doesn't take much if you got it.


----------



## adept

Very nice comment, thanks...


----------



## SlideGuitarist

L-feld said:


> Notable lounge lizards:
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


Isn't that a furriner, namely Marcello Mastroianni?


----------



## CMDC

SlideGuitarist said:


> Isn't that a furriner, namely Marcello Mastroianni?


Nope, that's Elliot Richardson.


----------



## HerrDavid

Yup, Richardson. The Harvard-educated "archetype of the cultivated New England Brahmin" (in the words of his NYT obit), member of four presidential cabinets, D-Day veteran, Presidential Medal of Freedom awardee, etc., etc. In other words: typical lounge lizard.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

HerrDavid said:


> Yup, Richardson. The Harvard-educated "archetype of the cultivated New England Brahmin" (in the words of his NYT obit), member of four presidential cabinets, D-Day veteran, Presidential Medal of Freedom awardee, etc., etc. In other words: typical lounge lizard.


Handsome guy, and yes, I'm old enough to remember watching the impeachment hearings. I heard the name and thought of Elliott Abrams...way different guy.


----------



## Duvel

My dad often wore the point collar with his jackets and ties, and he was hardly a lounge lizard. However, that does not mean he was not wearing a look for lounge lizards. Follow?


----------



## Spin Evans

Where would spread collars fit in that mix?


----------



## Duvel

What mix? There is no mix. There's the button-down collar and then there's everything else.



Spin Evans said:


> Where would spread collars fit in that mix?


----------



## HerrDavid

Dr. D's post reminds me to recommend _Best of Enemies_, which I saw yesterday. Regardless of one's politics, it is well made, highly entertaining, and even, at times, poignant. And, of course, plenty tradly thanks to WFB.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Odd for a Brit to be wearing Weejuns, but here you go:

https://postimg.org/image/7lerldq9x/


----------



## HerrDavid

^Also featured in _Best of Enemies_!

PS By your comment, I take it you've never visited the Talk Ivy forum, Dr. D. Lots of Brits in Weejuns over there!


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> There's nothing wrong with a point collar. If you're a lounge lizard.


I do plan to start wearing them when I ascend to crime boss. Here's my starting point ("You've gotta get up close like this and - bada-BING! - you blow their brains all over your nice Ivy League suit..."):









...and here's where I hope to end up:









No offense, Duvel: This is business, not personal.


----------



## Doctor Damage

nice button down


----------



## Tom Buchanan

I just saw an old post from OCBD's excellent blog regarding the Hamptons in the 1960s, with its link to the NY Post pictures. I am surprise that these pictures have not been loaded previously, or if they have, that I do not remember them. Check out the madras, bermudas, popovers, loafers, beer, cigarettes 

I think this is the best photo essay of classic era trad I have ever seen. Thanks to OCBD for highlighting this.

https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2014/08/ending-summer/

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/hamptons-1960s-style-gallery-1.24326


----------



## Doctor Damage

Not a trad suit, but I like the use of light coloured socks and full-strap loafers.

https://postimg.org/image/qua3gyob7/


----------



## AldenPyle

1938


----------



## AldenPyle

Seems like 1988 was the traddest election ever.


----------



## Doctor Damage

1954.


----------



## AldenPyle

Bill Bundy


----------



## AldenPyle

William Weld


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Great photo and illustrative of a true natural shoulder on a suit or blazer: padding and cloth shaping is used to create that S lying on its side shape with a sleevehead that merges the sleeve into the shoulder with no disruption in the curve (or very little). A true natural shoulder does NOT mean "no padding"! (Thanks to a friend of mine who does not post here for identifying this confusion and misinterpretation which is common on the clothing forums.)


----------



## Fading Fast

DD, awesome explanation and visual. Thank you.


----------



## adept

That does look nice...


----------



## FLMike

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Great photo and illustrative of a true natural shoulder on a suit or blazer: padding and cloth shaping is used to create that S lying on its side shape with a sleevehead that merges the sleeve into the shoulder with no disruption in the curve (or very little). A true natural shoulder does NOT mean "no padding"! (Thanks to a friend of mine who does not post here for identifying this confusion and misinterpretation which is common on the clothing forums.)


It's hard to acheive that nice, soft S-curve when you have shoulders as broad and square as mine. I struggle with even the softest shouldered of coats in acheiving the desired appearance. Alas.....


----------



## AldenPyle

Ellsworth Bunker


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Alden Pyle - You never disappoint. Fantastic images.


----------



## AldenPyle

oxford cloth button down said:


> Alden Pyle - You never disappoint. Fantastic images.


Thanks! Sorry if this one is too political









Lincoln Chaffee


----------



## AldenPyle

Fairfield Porter^2


----------



## Fading Fast

Alden Pyle - fantastic pictures. Love Bunker's suit.

How 'bout Edward Hopper - the man (first two) and his incredibly paintings (last one) - all very Trad


----------



## oxford cloth button down

AldenPyle said:


> Thanks! Sorry if this one is too political
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lincoln Chaffee


All I see is the other side of a button-hole


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> How 'bout Edward Hopper - the man (first two) and his incredibly paintings (last one) - all very Trad


Hopper is a favorite!

Julian Bond, RIP








Does really seem like the end of an era.


----------



## GRH




----------



## CMDC

You guys beat me to it. Was going to post some Bond pix. Here's another from the same march as above...


----------



## L-feld

AldenPyle said:


> Thanks! Sorry if this one is too political
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lincoln Chaffee


Chaffee is probably the least political politician around since DPM kicked the bucket. And a great dresser too. Definitely a throwback to a different era.


----------



## Odradek

AldenPyle said:


> Thanks! Sorry if this one is too political
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lincoln Chaffee


The name is vaguely familiar, but not being American I really have no idea who he is.
Is he a Rhode Island politician?
More to the point however, whee does one buy button down shirts with such a nice collar roll.
All my OCBD shirts are from Charles Tyrwhitt and their collars don't do that.


----------



## AldenPyle

New York School Poets x Fairfield Porter

Frank O'Hara









James Schuyler










John Ashbery


----------



## AldenPyle

Speaking of the end of an era, LA prosecutor and author Vincent Bugliosi (with star witness Linda Kasabian)









(both Helter Skelter and Reclaiming History are fascinating).


----------



## SlideGuitarist

AldenPyle said:


> New York School Poets...


Dang, beat me to the punch!


----------



## AldenPyle

SlideGuitarist said:


> Dang, beat me to the punch!


 Well played, sir.


----------



## AldenPyle

I forgot to mention Bugliosi died this June


----------



## AldenPyle

Manson Family victims Jay Sebring and Sharon Tate









In the 60's, Sebring was the hairstylist for all the coolest guys in Hollywood.








(Word of advice:Be careful typing Jay Sebring or Sharon Tate's names into Google images. Too many crime scene/autopsy photos even with Safe Search on)


----------



## SlideGuitarist

AldenPyle said:


> Well played, sir.


I have heard Mr. Ashbery read, and he's additionally quite a raconteur and a dry wit.


----------



## lediable007

May I ask a question? I've been looking on Google and frustratingly I've been unable to find (affordable) wide, square-bottomed knitted ties. Widest I've found is 2.75 inch, and I'm looking for 3-3.5. Would any of you gents be able to recommend a place?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

lediable007 said:


> May I ask a question? I've been looking on Google and frustratingly I've been unable to find (affordable) wide, square-bottomed knitted ties. Widest I've found is 2.75 inch, and I'm looking for 3-3.5. Would any of you gents be able to recommend a place?


You want the "Ask a Trad Question..." thread...


----------



## lediable007

Thank you kindly.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Odradek said:


> More to the point however, whee does one buy button down shirts with such a nice collar roll.


You don't, unless you have a time machine or access to a lightweight oxford cloth that isn't the heavy cowhide weight cotton which passes for oxford cloth today.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I looked for images of Billy Eckstine, but I suspect that button-down shirts would be something he'd avoid as insufficiently urbane. However, Nat Cole often presented a more casual image, and I think or hope that he's wearing a button-down collar here:


----------



## Doctor Damage

First the British kept ivy league style going via a small group of jazz musicians which many people never listened to, now the Japanese preserved ivy league style, like medieval monasteries preserving the Great Books (well, the ones they didn't discard):

https://www.ivy-style.com/w-david-marx-on-how-japan-saved-american-trad.html

Or, maybe ivy league style was never really lost, it was just a superficial fashion trend which came and went periodically (and will go and come again).


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Oh yes, this forum is apparently "neo-trad", according to the author of that book.


----------



## AldenPyle

SlideGuitarist said:


> Dang, beat me to the punch!


Sorry, if misinterpreted, I thought you were joking.


----------



## AldenPyle

AldenPyle said:


> Speaking of the end of an era, LA prosecutor and author Vincent Bugliosi (with star witness Linda Kasabian)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (both Helter Skelter and Reclaiming History are fascinating).


Interesting (to me), historical note. 
"On July 27, 1970, I went to the Magnin-Hi Shop on the third floor of I.Magnin in Beverly Hills and picked out, at Linda Kasabian's request, the dress in which she began her testimony about the murders at Sharon Tate Polanski's house on Cielo Drive. 'Size 9 Petite"her instructions read. 'Mini but not extremely mini. In velvet if possible. Emerald green or gold. Or: A Mexican peasant-style dress, smocked or embroidered.' She needed a dress that morning because the district attorney, Vincent Bugliosi, had expressed doubts about the dress she had planned to wear, a long white homespun shift. 'Long is for evening,' he had advised."
Joan Didion, "The White Album" (Guess they were out of emerald velvet).


----------



## AldenPyle

On the set of "The Blue Max"


----------



## AldenPyle

Rosemary's Baby









Also see https://www.ivy-style.com/post-number-666-rosemarys-baby-1968.html


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> Or, maybe ivy league style was never really lost, it was just a superficial fashion trend which came and went periodically (and will go and come again).


You are not wrong.


----------



## adept

Wow...it's been ages since the visage of John Cassavetes came to mind...you think I would have seen him on TCM(?) sometime along the way...nope.


----------



## Doctor Damage

AldenPyle said:


> Fairfield Porter^2


When did people stop wearing thick white socks with shorts and boat shoes? One sees them all the time in old photos and movies, even into the 1980s. Nowadays no-one seems to wear thick white socks with shorts. A couple summers ago I was out for my daily walk and was wearing white socks with boat shoes and some ******** driving by in a pick-up truck yelled "nice socks!"


----------



## SlideGuitarist

AldenPyle said:


> Sorry, if misinterpreted, I thought you were joking.


Actually, I was reading James Schuyler when I saw your posting, which is certainly an amazing coincidence.


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> When did people stop wearing thick white socks with shorts and boat shoes? One sees them all the time in old photos and movies, even into the 1980s. Nowadays no-one seems to wear thick white socks with shorts. A couple summers ago I was out for my daily walk and was wearing white socks with boat shoes and some ******** driving by in a pick-up truck yelled "nice socks!"


I've been doing that a little myself, though I don't run across a lot of ********.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Actually, I was reading James Schuyler when I saw your posting, which is certainly an amazing coincidence.


Indeed.


----------



## AldenPyle

Sharon Tate in 
The Wrecking Crew








Valley of the Dolls (that's Martin Milner)
























Twelve+1 (w/ Vittorio Gassman)


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> When did people stop wearing thick white socks with shorts and boat shoes? One sees them all the time in old photos and movies, even into the 1980s. Nowadays no-one seems to wear thick white socks with shorts. A couple summers ago I was out for my daily walk and was wearing white socks with boat shoes and some ******** driving by in a pick-up truck yelled "nice socks!"


I know what you are talking about from pictures, but in my little corner of Ivy America - the Northeast - and growing up in the '70s / early '80s (college), it seemed the only two acceptable way to wear boat shoes (for that small coterie that still dressed Ivy) was either barefoot or with ragg wool socks like this (form the Daily Prep website):



It might seem odd to wear a heavy sock with a summer shoe, but thin socks look wrong with boat shoes - the shoe is too rough / leather too thick (overlapping pieces, bulges at some seams, big stitches) for a thin sock. Also, the ragg wool solution sorta fits into the whole Ivy ethos of thrift and nonchalance. To wit, it's fall, it's cold, I need to run an errand, so I through on a heavy sock with my summer boat shoes as a solution. And ragg wool is so Ivy.


----------



## AldenPyle

A few more Milner, Valley of the Dolls (1967)

























Mostly w/ Patty Duke


----------



## AldenPyle

At the time of the murder, the Polanski's were renting their house from record producer Terry Melcher. A sleeve from his failed teen idol career under his mother Doris' stage name.








Melcher knew Manson through his friend Brian Wilson, who enjoyed the orgy scene with the "Family" though eventually he got bored and kicked them out of his Malibu house.


----------



## AldenPyle

Bonus James Garner with Doris Day


----------



## wilhelm00

*Just saw this picture*



AldenPyle said:


> Henry Luce w/ wife Clare in Hawaii, ca. 1938


Immediately recalled a crack by (I think) Will Rogers that Hawaii is the only place in the world where they lay flowers on you while you're allive.


----------



## AldenPyle

One of Manson's most ardent disciples, Lynette "Squeaky"Fromme attempted to assassinate Gerald Ford in 1975. Fromme was paroled from prison in 2009.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jack Nicholson and Dennis Hopper were frequent visitors to the Manson trial, probably researching a potential film. That never panned out. Here is Nicholson in Carnal Knowledge (1971).
















With Garfunkel, Ann Margaret and Candice Bergen (Terry Melcher's girlfriend at the time of the Manson murders)


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Great photos!



AldenPyle said:


> Jack Nicholson and Dennis Hopper were frequent visitors to the Manson trial, probably researching a potential film. That never panned out. Here is Nicholson in Carnal Knowledge (1971).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With Garfunkel, Ann Margaret and Candice Bergen (Terry Melcher's girlfriend at the time of the Manson murders)


----------



## Duvel

The beloved (by me) duffle coat also makes an appearance in Carnal Knowledge. Great source of trad-style images, that movie.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> The beloved (by me) duffle coat also makes an appearance in Carnal Knowledge. Great source of trad-style images, that movie.


Garfunkel's suit is sweet - wonderful shoulder and looks like the material has real weight to it.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Photo essay of Watts residents in the 60s


----------



## Duvel

I see that photo essay referenced a lot in the men's style blog world.


----------



## Doctor Damage

James Garner in "Marlowe", he wears a great ivy wardrobe in that film.


----------



## AldenPyle

Dennis Hopper met with Manson in jail. The cult leader hoped Hopper could play him in the movie version of the life story. Given his method approach to acting, its probably better for everyone that this never happened.

Hopper and Nick Adams clowning with Natalie Wood

























And in Giant (1956)

















Also anyone looking for a great podcast on film history try You Must Remember This which recently concluded a 12 part series about the atmosphere in Hollywood immediately prior to the Tate-LaBianca murders.


----------



## AldenPyle

In addition to being crazy, Hopper was something of a visual artist








According to some, he became a very good painter and photographer. He also was an early collector of pop art (he claimed to have bought the first Warhol Campbells Soup silkscreen for $75). In any case, he knew many artists in that camp well enough to have photographed them in the early 1960's.
Andy Warhol, Henry Geldzahler, David Hockney and Jeff Goodman, 1963
















Claes Oldenberg








Robert Rauschenberg








James Rosenquist








Roy Lichtenstein


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> James Garner in "Marlowe", he wears a great ivy wardrobe in that film.


Good picture, but disappointing movie (given it is James Garner+Raymond Chandler+Mid-60s Style+Bruce Lee, it is decidedly less than the sum of its parts)


----------



## AldenPyle

Bonus Hopper, Jane Fonda with Bow and Arrow


----------



## CornoUltimo

Aaron Copland


----------



## CornoUltimo

Gustav Mahler possibly in a very early version of trad.


----------



## AldenPyle

CornoUltimo said:


> Aaron Copland


Nice pic


----------



## AldenPyle

Hunter S. Thompson encourages you to enjoy the last weekend of summer.


----------



## Bernie Zack




----------



## AldenPyle

*Love and Mercy*









Surf's Up


----------



## AldenPyle

Welcome back to class kids. Now lets get to work


----------



## AldenPyle

Holden


----------



## AldenPyle

Roger Chaffee


----------



## adept

RIP


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I know that Charlie Watts isn't American, but is he wearing a PPBD and a seersucker (pincord?) jacket here (with a not-quite-natural shoulder, I think)?


----------



## Fading Fast

SlideGuitarist said:


> I know that Charlie Watts isn't American, but is he wearing a PPBD and a seersucker (pincord?) jacket here (with a not-quite-natural shoulder, I think)?


Watts is a huge clothes / dressing guy - I've read interviews about him and he has his clothes custom made, etc. and is really into dressing and style. He - at least as an older gentleman - has had a classic vibe to his style, but with a Rock and Roll overlay (sometimes). And definitely a man who got much better looking as he got older - he grew nicely into his looks.

The other Stones' connect is that in their early years (1960s pre-psychodelic), they had a lot of British and American Trad influences in their clothes - button-down collars, tweed sport coats, v-neck sweater, even cardigans. It's funny that they were considered "the bad boys of rock and roll" when they started, in part, because they looked and dressed "scruffy." When you look at those pictures now, they look like such nice innocent kids (in some of the pictures, not all), but you can see how they looked rougher than the Beatles.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> The other Stones' connect is that in their early years (1960s pre-psychodelic), they had a lot of British and American Trad influences in their clothes - button-down collars, tweed sport coats, v-neck sweater, even cardigans. It's funny that they were considered "the bad boys of rock and roll" when they started, in part, because they looked and dressed "scruffy." When you look at those pictures now, they look like such nice innocent kids (in some of the pictures, not all), but you can see how they looked rougher than the Beatles.


----------



## Duvel

great pic, and very true, what you say below. I have assembled a slew of photos of the Stones from that era in attire that is very much Ivy League trad style.



Fading Fast said:


> Watts is a huge clothes / dressing guy - I've read interviews about him and he has his clothes custom made, etc. and is really into dressing and style. He - at least as an older gentleman - has had a classic vibe to his style, but with a Rock and Roll overlay (sometimes). And definitely a man who got much better looking as he got older - he grew nicely into his looks.
> 
> The other Stones' connect is that in their early years (1960s pre-psychodelic), they had a lot of British and A*merican Trad influences in their clothes - button-down collars, tweed sport coats, v-neck sweater, even cardigans. *It's funny that they were considered "the bad boys of rock and roll" when they started, in part, because they looked and dressed "scruffy." When you look at those pictures now, they look like such nice innocent kids (in some of the pictures, not all), but you can see how they looked rougher than the Beatles.


----------



## AldenPyle

One more Dean Jones


----------



## AldenPyle

One of the patron saints of the Trad world, Leon Gorman, grandson of L.L. Bean and longtime CEO responsible for building the brand into its' preppie heyday and current global brand status. RIP.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Cigars, whiskey, fedoras, button-down collar, hating the Dallas Cowboys...what's not to like about Bert Sugar?


----------



## Duvel

Excellent.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Cigars, whiskey, fedoras, button-down collar, hating the Dallas Cowboys...what's not to like about Bert Sugar?


----------



## Fading Fast

SlideGuitarist said:


> Cigars, whiskey, fedoras, button-down collar, hating the Dallas Cowboys...what's not to like about Bert Sugar?


Other than his penchant for wearing dark colored shirts (the one in the photo is light for him), he's got a great style, and he has real sports writing chops, but when I see him interviewed or just discussing TV, it always feel to me like he is trying too hard to create the image of an "old-school" sportswriter. It just feels a little too forced.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Boyer's new book is out (cover below) and mine arrived yesterday in the mail. It follows a similar format to his two books from the 1980s, "Eminently Suitable" and "Elegance", basically each chapter is devoted to a particular topic. I haven't read the new book, just flipped through it and read a bit here and there, so I can't say if it's good or not. He does have a chapter on ivy style (what happened to Ivy League Style?) in which he mentions some sort of simplistic timeline which Chensvold has come up with; as has been pointed out on another forum (which shall not be named), Chensvold doesn't know anything, so I'm surprised Boyer mentions him at all. Whatever. History is written by those who write history, not by those who know history!



Anyways, this book is probably a safe buy for general readers, although I strongly recommend finding and buying his two earlier books, since both are excellent.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Mr Bean isn't american trad, but his pants will never get wet!


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> Boyer's new book is out (cover below) and mine arrived yesterday in the mail. It follows a similar format to his two books from the 1980s, "Eminently Suitable" and "Elegance", basically each chapter is devoted to a particular topic. I haven't read the new book, just flipped through it and read a bit here and there, so I can't say if it's good or not. He does have a chapter on ivy style (what happened to Ivy League Style?) in which he mentions some sort of simplistic timeline which Chensvold has come up with; as has been pointed out on another forum (which shall not be named), Chensvold doesn't know anything, so I'm surprised Boyer mentions him at all. Whatever. History is written by those who write history, not by those who know history!
> 
> Anyways, this book is probably a safe buy for general readers, although I strongly recommend finding and buying his two earlier books, since both are excellent.


Is it a picture book or would buying on Kindle be ok?


----------



## Bernie Zack

Doctor Damage said:


> Boyer's new book is out (cover below) and mine arrived yesterday in the mail. It follows a similar format to his two books from the 1980s, "Eminently Suitable" and "Elegance", basically each chapter is devoted to a particular topic. I haven't read the new book, just flipped through it and read a bit here and there, so I can't say if it's good or not. He does have a chapter on ivy style (what happened to Ivy League Style?) in which he mentions some sort of simplistic timeline which Chensvold has come up with; as has been pointed out on another forum (which shall not be named), Chensvold doesn't know anything, so I'm surprised Boyer mentions him at all. Whatever. History is written by those who write history, not by those who know history!
> 
> Anyways, this book is probably a safe buy for general readers, although I strongly recommend finding and buying his two earlier books, since both are excellent.


I'll have to find this and get it. Thanks.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Boyer's book is 99.999% text, so kindle makes sense if it's cheaper and more convenient. I'll say it again: try to get his other two books, too, since my preliminary sense is that "True Style" would be best read as a set with the other two. None of the books is comprehensive, but together they are. I also strongly recommend Flusser's best book, "Clothes and the Man", which was really good on the basics and has a wonderful colour section in the middle. His later books, although useful, are a bit too posh or studied for most men - nobody today should be dressing like a 1940s movie star or the Duke of Windsor, frankly.

Eminently Suitable used LINK
Elegance used LINK

Clothes and the Man LINK

Having bought all of the better men's clothing books, and many of the lesser ones, I have to say that someone on a budget should get the four books above (3 X Boyer, 1 X Flusser) and you'll be all set with a good basic smart library. This is particularly so for the Trad crowd, since all four of those books more or less cover the classic elements of dressing and each of those four books are about 75% timeless and won't go out of date.


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Boyer's book is 99.999% text, so kindle makes sense if it's cheaper and more convenient. I'll say it again: try to get his other two books, too, since my preliminary sense is that "True Style" would be best read as a set with the other two.


Thanks. I have Elegance around somewhere. It is indeed quite good. The other proved more elusive.

Anyone else been enjoying Troy Patterson at the NY Times essays on classic casual clothing?


----------



## AldenPyle

Gifford


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Gifford


Great shot. Must be from the 1960s as he ain't getting much roll from that short button down. Which kinda leads to a question that's been in my mind - and one that probably deserves a post elsewhere - but do the skinny ties, narrow lapels, short collars of the 1960s (think Paul Newman in "The Young Philadelphians" or Jack Lemmon in "The Apartment") count as American Trad (I think they do)? And if so, then how do we circle that square with our love of collar rolls in OCBD (I just accept them both and move on)?


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> Great shot. Must be from the 1960s as he ain't getting much roll from that short button down. Which kinda leads to a question that's been in my mind - and one that probably deserves a post elsewhere - but do the skinny ties, narrow lapels, short collars of the 1960s (think Paul Newman in "The Young Philadelphians" or Jack Lemmon in "The Apartment") count as American Trad (I think they do)? And if so, then how do we circle that square with our love of collar rolls in OCBD (I just accept them both and move on)?


It was what people wore at the time, among other things. Generous collar rolls would have looked ridiculous with slim suits with narrow lapels and tapered short pants. Everything changes, especially clothing, and even Brooks Brothers has admitted to making tiny alterations to their classics over time. Fitting past styles into American Trad is a fool's errand, since American Trad is essentially a dreamed-up, modern day style created by concreting together a loose collection of brands and items without much of a 'bigger picture' to hold it together (other than some bad history and a lot of wishful thinking).


----------



## Billax

As someone who will (reluctantly) admit to attending college in the early 1960s, I can say - with considerable conviction - that button down collars were NOT skimpy in the 1960s. On college campuses everywhere, in the early/mid sixties, collar points on Gant Huggers, Sero Purists, and Creighton OCBDs, were 3 1/2 inches throughout the US. Ties were skimpy, and they made a poor match for 3.5" OCBD collar points, but them's the facts!

I wore OCBDs from all three manufacturers, and bought them new in the early/mid sixties from the Ivy League menswear store in which I worked (part-time) during my college days - 1959-1964. I'm chary about commenting on apparel during periods in which I did not *directly experience* such clothing. I've found such cautiousness to be a good rule of thumb.


----------



## Fading Fast

Billax said:


> As someone who will (reluctantly) admit to attending college in the early 1960s, I can say - with considerable conviction - that button down collars were NOT skimpy in the 1960s. On college campuses everywhere, in the early/mid sixties, collar points on Gant Huggers, Sero Purists, and Creighton OCBDs, were 3 1/2 inches throughout the US. Ties were skimpy, and they made a poor match for 3.5" OCBD collar points, but them's the facts!
> 
> I wore OCBDs from all three manufacturers, and bought them new in the early/mid sixties from the Ivy League menswear store in which I worked (part-time) during my college days - 1959-1964. I'm chary about commenting on apparel during periods in which I did not *directly experience* such clothing. I've found such cautiousness to be a good rule of thumb.


I am happy and genuinely respectful to defer to someone, like you, who has direct experience and, more broadly, I appreciate the generous time you give to sharing your insights with us. It is in that spirit that I ask you about the short collars that I see on Gifford and in the movies I referenced above (which seem harmonious with the narrow lapels and skinny ties they wore) - where they unusual for the early / mid sixties, where they just something Hollywood adopted, or where they adopted by more of society, by some part of the Ivy world?

As you noted, it is incongruous to have a narrow tie, narrow lapel and 3.5" button down collar - how was this handled? If one went into BB in 1960, would they have bought a narrow lapel suit, narrow tie and a 3.5" OCBD collared shirt, or would they have been able to buy a button down shirt with a narrow collar like Gifford wore? Did the narrow collars show up at all on Ivy campuses?


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Great shot. Must be from the 1960s as he ain't getting much roll from that short button down. Which kinda leads to a question that's been in my mind - and one that probably deserves a post elsewhere - but do the skinny ties, narrow lapels, short collars of the 1960s (think Paul Newman in "The Young Philadelphians" or Jack Lemmon in "The Apartment") count as American Trad (I think they do)? And if so, then how do we circle that square with our love of collar rolls in OCBD (I just accept them both and move on)?


If you are asking what criteria I have in mind for whether it makes sense to post a picture in this thread, I don't think they should be too narrow. I think of the tradition of the Ivy shops (which Billax touches on) and pre-M&S Brooks as essentially the core, but that look had a lot of influences and also influenced some broader fashions. Probably what Frank Gifford was wearing in that picture is more in the latter category, but with SC opening up the season in the AP Top 10, what the heck.


----------



## AldenPyle

Also, I'm not really sure about the movies you used. I think what Newman and Lemmon wore in those movies were pretty exemplary of the late 50's Brooks Brothers style


----------



## Fading Fast

Alden Pyle,

First and most importantly, I was not intentionally challenging your criteria for posting that outstanding picture - I thought it was a great choice that helps furthers our discussion.

I was more asking all our members their thoughts about the concept of shorter OCBD collars with narrow ties and lapels - which seem more sartorially consistent, but also contradicts the cannon of the collar roll.

And to that end, your pictures highlight the empty sieve that is my memory - there seems to be many examples of traditional length OCBD collars being worn with narrow ties and lapels.

However, I did find these picture from the movie "Torn Curtain" (the few brain cells of mine that still function said I had seen Newman wearing a short-collared button down in one of his 1960s movie) which show that, at least some of the time, short button down collars were used with narrow ties and lapels.



You can just see the button on the collar on Newman's right collar point


Which ties (ha-ha) it all back to the original thought: what do others think about the short button down collar being used with narrow tie and lapels versus using the traditional length button down collar?

The first has the benefit of sartorial consistency, but the second (long collar, narrow tie and lapel), to my eye (as in the pictures in the prior post), looks good as the roll is there and the inconsistency doesn't bother me.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Alden Pyle,
> 
> First and most importantly, I was not intentionally challenging your criteria for posting that outstanding picture - I thought it was a great choice that helps furthers our discussion.


Don't worry, I wasn't feeling defensive about posting the picture and I didn't take your post as a challenge. I was just taking the opportunity to ruminate on some of the limits on TNSIL influenced pictures that I might choose to post here. They exist, but they are not that strict. Other people might have other ideas.

.



Fading Fast said:


> I was more asking all our members their thoughts about the concept of shorter OCBD collars with narrow ties and lapels - which seem more sartorially consistent, but also contradicts the cannon of the collar rollWhich ties (ha-ha) it all back to the original thought: what do others think about the short button down collar being used with narrow tie and lapels versus using the traditional length button down collar?
> 
> The first has the benefit of sartorial consistency, but the second (long collar, narrow tie and lapel), to my eye (as in the pictures in the prior post), looks good as the roll is there and the inconsistency doesn't bother me.


I agree with this, 100%. Strictly speaking, short collar points are probably more consistent with narrow lapels and ties, but in the case of a button down collar, the inconsistency might be more of a feature than a bug. Relative to having your jacket and your pants out of proportion or your lapels and your ties at different scales, the imbalance of a long buttondown collar point is pretty minimal. It also may serve to draw attention to the collar. If you think the roll of a buttondown collar has its own intrinsic beauty, then probably this could be a good thing.

To bring things full circle, be sure to check out the G. Bruce Boyer essay on the buttondown collar and the campus shop aesthetic that Chensvold just posted on Ivy Style. https://www.ivy-style.com/my-favorite-shirt-boyer-for-gant.html. Confirms Billax's memory and seems relevant.


----------



## AldenPyle

An oldie but a goodie for Labor Day


----------



## AldenPyle

Sadly, this thread is turning into a bit of an obituary. Martin Milner, RIP.


----------



## Duvel

Damn. I really liked Milner. Route 66, right?


----------



## AldenPyle

Duvel said:


> Damn. I really liked Milner. Route 66, right?


 Yes. For my generation, Adam-12.


----------



## Duvel

I remember Adam 12. I was a little too young for Route 66 in its day, but a few years ago, I picked up the DVD series from our library, and really enjoyed it. More than a little dated but an enjoyable buddies-on-the-road series.


----------



## Spin Evans

AldenPyle, I wanted to thank you for putting together such an enjoyable series of images over the past few pages.


----------



## AldenPyle

^My pleasure. 








Rocky!


----------



## SG_67

Arthur Schlesinger:


----------



## AldenPyle

Here's another from Torn Curtain








Not a great movie I think, perhaps kind of the beginning of the end for Hitchcock.


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Here's another from Torn Curtain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a great movie I think, perhaps kind of the beginning of the end for Hitchcock.


Agreed, after 3+ decade run and an incredible number of classics - whose style and influence are still felt today - he was running on fumes with this one. I'll watch it for the clothes and style, but that's about it.


----------



## AldenPyle

Los Angeles Public Library from Vintage LA blog


----------



## Duvel

^ Guy in the green jacket... I swear that's my vintage '60s 2-button sack by Lord Baxter!


----------



## Fading Fast

Can't quite tell, but is the guy sitting on the railing wearing sneakers? If so, seems like a relatively early sighting of sneakers with a sport coat not in a campus setting.


----------



## adept

The next guy along in the grey check jacket looks pretty good, too.


----------



## Duvel

Yes. Both those rigs, aside from the tennis shoes with that outfit, are things I'd wear.


----------



## Duvel

The jacket!


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Yes. Both those rigs, aside from the tennis shoes with that outfit, are things I'd wear.


Pretty surprised to see sport coats and tennis shoes not in a campus setting, but them I've lived on the East Coast my entire life - maybe casual looks like that were adopted earlier in California.


----------



## Duvel

Cheating here. U.K. trad guys? Cape Cod?


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Academics
*








Kingman Brewster (w/ William Scranton)


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Academics*









Sociologist Elihu Katz


----------



## Duvel

A.P., where are you finding your Academics photos? And thank you--they're great.


----------



## Fading Fast

Sociologist Elihu Katz - now that is a collar roll. And I love the swelled edge on the jacket. All very Trad.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> Can't quite tell, but is the guy sitting on the railing wearing sneakers? If so, seems like a relatively early sighting of sneakers with a sport coat not in a campus setting.


I saw that too. It's obviously a very popular to match sneakers with jackets and ties these days, although the fellow in that photo might have been wearing them because his only other footwear were workboots. Speaking generally to the bloggers and others, we have to be careful when interpreting old photos since we don't really know why people depicted made the choices they did and economics were a very real consideration for the bulk of the population in the past.


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> I saw that too. It's obviously a very popular to match sneakers with jackets and ties these days, although the fellow in that photo might have been wearing them because his only other footwear were workboots. Speaking generally to the bloggers and others, we have to be careful when interpreting old photos since we don't really know why people depicted made the choices they did and economics were a very real consideration for the bulk of the population in the past.


Congrats on your 5000th post, as with this one, you bring insight and verve to the forum - thank you.

I agree completely that we need to truly understand the period to even come close to getting interpretations correct. That said, having grown up in a very "Wonder Years" (the TV show) neighborhood - blue collar, lower-income white collar - in the late-'60s/'70s, most men, even those who wore workbooks daily, would own a pair of dress shoes for church, weddings, funerals, etc.

To be sure, I don't doubt that there where those who simply couldn't afford dress shoes, but I doubt that person would own a sport coat and tennis sneakers - but maybe out West? Before our modern culture of dressing down everywhere took hold, most people tried to have one "set of good clothes" even if their daily life didn't call for it.

That said, I could be wrong (often am) and your point is still spot on - it is only because I grew up in the tail-end of that period that I can provide the color I did.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Academics*









Psychologist William K. Estes and with colleagues at the Institute for Mathematical Studies in the Social Sciences at Stanford in 1967


----------



## Urbnhautebourg

Urbnhautebourg endorses this picture.



AldenPyle said:


> ^My pleasure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rocky!


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Academics
*








Economist J.K. Galbraith


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Academics
*








Psychologist George A. Miller


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Academics
*







Economist Douglass C. North


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Academics
*







University of Wisconsin Cancer researcher Harold Rusch shaking hands with Cong. Melvin Laird (NCI head K.P. Endicott in bow tie with UW Provost Robert Clodius)


----------



## Fading Fast

⬆ Not a dart to be seen anywhere - wonderful.


----------



## adept

I also notice the two fellas in the middle with the top two buttons buttoned.


----------



## Fading Fast

adept said:


> I also notice the two fellas in the middle with the top two buttons buttoned.


Funny, I saw a very Trad dressed elderly gentleman yesterday - olive gaberdine suit, yellow OCBD and rep tie - and he had his top two buttons buttoned. It struck me as a bit off, but it was clear this guy had his hands around his style and what he wanted to do. I wanted to snap a picture to show here, but thought that would be a really weird thing to do.


----------



## AldenPyle

adept said:


> I also notice the two fellas in the middle with the top two buttons buttoned.


True. They do look like true 3-button jackets though. I'm a bit curious about that.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Academics
*








International Relations scholar Richard Ullman


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors
*







Defense Secretary Melvin Laird


----------



## AldenPyle

AldenPyle said:


> One of Manson's most ardent disciples, Lynette "Squeaky"Fromme attempted to assassinate Gerald Ford in 1975. Fromme was paroled from prison in 2009.


Speaking of Defense Secretaries, I had not realized this was Donald Rumsfeld.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors
*









CIA Director William Colby


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors
*

















Defense Secretary James Schlesinger


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors
*
















NSA staffer and head of Civil Operations and Revolutionary Development Support at MAC-V, Robert Komer

(Its odd to think that at one time you could expect to just light up a pipe wherever you liked including the Oval Office.)


----------



## SG_67

AldenPyle said:


> Speaking of Defense Secretaries, I had not realized this was Donald Rumsfeld.


I think Rummy was the first and only person to serve as SOD twice. He also brought Dick Cheney into the administration.


----------



## AldenPyle

SG_67 said:


> I think Rummy was the first and only person to serve as SOD twice. He also brought Dick Cheney into the administration.


 Rumsfeld originally went to D.C. in the 1960s at 30yo as a Gerald Ford style "moderate" Republican from the Midwest. I guess this picture comes from that time period when Ivy/natural shoulder was a recognizable style choice for Republicans of that ilk (Cheney also went to D.C. as an aide to Bill Steiger, another so-called Midwest moderate Republican).


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors
*

























CIA Director Richard Helms


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors
*














Special Assistant for National Security Affairs, Walt Whitman Rostow


----------



## Fading Fast

Re first picture of Walt Whitman Rostow, while they don't seem to get much love on this forum, I love his tab collar. Done well, a tab collar seems like such an elegant solution - the tie knot pops a bit out and the collar and tie are "tightened up" and create a unified package. They date back to at least the early 1900s, seemed to have had a vogue in the '20s and '30s and, then again, in the '60s, but for some reason, they don't get a lot of love here. 

AldenPyle - thank you for posting such great pictures.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Re first picture of Walt Whitman Rostow, while they don't seem to get much love on this forum, I love his tab collar. Done well, a tab collar seems like such an elegant solution - the tie knot pops a bit out and the collar and tie are "tightened up" and create a unified package. They date back to at least the early 1900s, seemed to have had a vogue in the '20s and '30s and, then again, in the '60s, but for some reason, they don't get a lot of love here.
> 
> AldenPyle - thank you for posting such great pictures.


I am not sure, but I think tab collars need to have short points or they flap around. Probably they would be good for today's skinny tie look, but practically speaking I am not sure if anyone even makes a tab collar shirt. Not sure why.


----------



## Cowtown

AldenPyle said:


> I am not sure, but I think tab collars need to have short points or they flap around. Probably they would be good for today's skinny tie look, but practically speaking I am not sure if anyone even makes a tab collar shirt. Not sure why.


I think tab collared shirts are a great look but, unfortunately, they don't look very good on me.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors

*








CIA Agent Terrence Burke decorated for valor 
https://www.amazon.com/Stories-From-Secret-War-Special/dp/0988330806


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors *(special Mid-Autumn Festival bonus edition)








William Colby in Vietnam


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> I am not sure, but I think tab collars need to have short points or they flap around. Probably they would be good for today's skinny tie look, but practically speaking I am not sure if anyone even makes a tab collar shirt. Not sure why.


I agree, the best tab collars have short points as, then, the collar almost disappears as the tie pops forward. It's why I like the tab collars of the '60s more than the '30s.

And while I haven't looked for them this years, they still get made as, usually, Brooks Brothers will carry a few tab collar options as will some other manufacturers. A year or two back, I picked up some very nice ones from Eton. But to your point, they are far from common and you have to search them out.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors
*
































Defense Secretary Thomas Gates


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Cold Warriors*


























_The Mission Council, Vietna_m by Richard Avedon


----------



## gamma68

Perhaps Fading Fast will appreciate JFK's color palette in the sailing photo.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Photographers
*
































Richard Avedon, 1956-57.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Photographers
*










































William Eggleston


----------



## Fading Fast

A few pages back on this thread, we had a discussion about short-pointed OCBDs in the 1960s and I struggled to find a clear picture of Paul Newman wearing one (and came up with a not great picture form his movie "Torn Curtain"). Today, the website "Ivy Style" has this outstanding picture showing Newman wearing just such a shirt. At the time, we were debating the merits of style consistency - narrow tie, narrow lapel and short collar points - versus the integrity of the OCBD collar roll (which requires longer collar points).


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Photographers

*








Bruce Davidson


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Photographers
*
















Alfred Eisenstaedt


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Photographers
*







Irving Penn


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Photographers
*







Carl Mydans (taken by Life magazine photo shoot subject Bobby Fischer).


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Painters
*
















Jack Tworkov


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Painters
*
























Jasper Johns


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Alden Pyle, the photos of Jasper Johns are a nice reminder of a time when American artistic innovators, gay or straight, also dressed nicely, in what was just the expected American style. Here's Frank O'Hara in seersucker (the MoMA has this photo on display):



Merce Cunningham and John Cage seem to be exceptions (maybe because they're Left Coasters?). Cage seems to have favored chambray workshirts.


----------



## Fading Fast

SlideGuitarist said:


> Alden Pyle, the photos of Jasper Johns are a nice reminder of a time when American artistic innovators, gay or straight, also dressed nicely, in what was just the expected American style...


Jasper Johns stands out in these pictures as not only dressing Trad (as they all do in this series), but in having a sense of style and a comfort in his clothes. IMHO, that is the most elusive skill, but when you have it, your outfits and overall appearance soars. Anyone can buy Trad clothing. But it is a real skill to know what Trad clothing work right for you / what combinations look natural and comfortable on you. Johns clearly had that skill.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Fading Fast said:


> Jasper Johns stands out in these pictures as not only dressing Trad (as they all do in this series), but in having a sense of style and a comfort in his clothes. IMHO, that is the most elusive skill, but when you have it, your outfits and overall appearance soars. Anyone can buy Trad clothing. But it is a real skill to know what Trad clothing work right for you / what combinations look natural and comfortable on you. Johns clearly had that skill.


That's well-observed. Johns was obviously pretty deliberate; he didn't just throw on a rumpled OCBD.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> A few pages back on this thread, we had a discussion about short-pointed OCBDs in the 1960s and I struggled to find a clear picture of Paul Newman wearing one (and came up with a not great picture form his movie "Torn Curtain"). Today, the website "Ivy Style" has this outstanding picture showing Newman wearing just such a shirt. At the time, we were debating the merits of style consistency - narrow tie, narrow lapel and short collar points - versus the integrity of the OCBD collar roll (which requires longer collar points).


There's definitely a conflict between traditionalism and following minimalism to its logical conclusion. Super short point collars seemed to have been common in the narrow tie era. But once the points are so short, I'm not sure that there is much point of putting a button on them. Wearing a narrow tie with a Brooks style collar, highlights the collar which may not be such a bad thing. 








Balance vs. Highlight


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Is that a 3-button jacket on Jasper Johns?


----------



## AldenPyle

SlideGuitarist said:


> Alden Pyle, the photos of Jasper Johns are a nice reminder of a time when American artistic innovators, gay or straight, also dressed nicely, in what was just the expected American style. .


Painters are an interesting case in that their work clothes must necessarily be extremely informal. When they try to dress up, the results vary, usually lying somewhere between working man's Sunday best and college professor (writers and poets usually tend to the professorial). "Pop" Artists and New York School poets seem to have embraced the fashionable urban milieu in their work and in their life, more than most and dress accordingly.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Painters
*


















Andy Warhol










with Robert Indiana









with Lichtenstein and Rauschenberg








and other Pop artists.


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> There's definitely a conflict between traditionalism and following minimalism to its logical conclusion. Super short point collars seemed to have been common in the narrow tie era. But once the points are so short, I'm not sure that there is much point of putting a button on them. Wearing a narrow tie with a Brooks style collar, highlights the collar which may not be such a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Balance vs. Highlight


This shot of the the regular length OCBD with a narrow tie and lapel is an example of something that just works, when on paper it shouldn't. While the proportions are off, as you noted, it doesn't detract but just seems to enhance the look. I don't dislike the '60s narrow lapel, narrow tie and short collar look as others seem to - it still has a Trad vibe (compared with what was to come in just a few years), but I prefer the more classic Trad-Ivy look.

What is challenging about the narrow look is that unless you are also tall and narrow, it doesn't look that great; whereas, classic Trad-Ivy looks good on most sizes and shapes. Hence, a young, lean Paul Newman looked good in all his narrow attire, but you see some large framed guys (not overweight, just large - broad shoulders, big bones, etc. ) trying to wear the look and, even when the clothes are tailored correctly (a rarity today), the scale of the narrow tie, lapel, etc., looks off.

The other odd thing I've noticed with the narrow look today, in particular, is that thick-framed eyeglasses and manhole-cover-sized watches are in. It seems to rub against the narrow, minimalist aesthetic in a way I find jarring. While thick glasses were also part of the '60s narrow look, at least then, the slim wristwatch was the norm. I get that some argue that having an element or two "contrast" the look is "interesting," but it just doesn't work for me.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Painters*

















David Hockney


----------



## Doctor Damage

Book on clothing from 2014, a couple related articles linked below.

https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/...icans-begin-to-dress-so-casually/ideas/nexus/


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> Book on clothing from 2014, a couple related articles linked below.
> 
> https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/...icans-begin-to-dress-so-casually/ideas/nexus/


Sold! 15.39 American


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Painters
*

















Jacob Lawrence


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Painters
*















Edward Hopper


----------



## Fading Fast

Jacob Lawrence: corduroy - check, 3/2 - check, no darts - check, knit tie - check, but what the heck is going on with that collar (is it a button down and my monitor is too addled to catch it, or have the collar points gone on a journey similar to the Wicked Witch of the East's shoes after Dorothy's house fell on her)?


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Jacob Lawrence: corduroy - check, 3/2 - check, no darts - check, knit tie - check, but what the heck is going on with that collar (is it a button down and my monitor is too addled to catch it, or have the collar points gone on a journey similar to the Wicked Witch of the East's shoes after Dorothy's house fell on her)?


 My guess is the latter. The collar seems really short, short enough for the tie itself to be holding it up.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Painters

*







Arthur Dove


----------



## Oldsport

I see many if not most photos posted in this thread that are fairly old. How many people in that period didn't dress as shown? What was the style if not represented in the attached photos? I have to admit that some of the rigs just look like clothes from 40-60 years ago.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Painters
*









Clyfford Still


----------



## Fading Fast

Hopper dresses just like the people he paints.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Hopper dresses just like the people he paints.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle, thank you for the continuing great picture posts and for the personalized Hopper one. FF


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Physicists*









Enrico Fermi


----------



## Fading Fast

Fermi, love the material and the style of the suit, but it looks too big on him or maybe just in need of a good pressing.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Fermi, love the material and the style of the suit, but it looks too big on him or maybe just in need of a good pressing.


Looking at different pictures of the guy, he may really just have had the one suit.


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Looking at different pictures of the guy, he may really just have had the one suit.


All the more reason then that he should have had it well tailored.


----------



## gamma68

(L-R): Edsel, Eleanor, Henry II, Benson, Josephine, and William Clay Ford.

Wish I could find a larger image to post.


----------



## Fading Fast

⬆ Note the saddle shoes on the two on the left and the spectator on Eleanor. Based on that along, I'm going to guess mid '50s. And no matter how much material, educational and social advantage you had, being related to Henry Ford Senior was no picnic.

And the Deuce (who I have great respect for, read "Go Like Hell" awesome book) needs some over-the-calf socks.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> ⬆ Note the saddle shoes on the two on the left and the spectator on Eleanor. Based on that along, I'm going to guess mid '50s. And no matter how much material, educational and social advantage you had, being related to Henry Ford Senior was no picnic.
> 
> And the Deuce (who I have great respect for, read "Go Like Hell" awesome book) needs some over-the-calf socks.


The photo is actually from 1937.

Great observations about the saddle shoes, which I also noticed. And yes, Hank the Deuce could use some OTC socks.

Incidentally, William Clay oversaw the slow decline of the Detroit Lions into the mess we have today. His widow, Martha (Firestone) Ford, is now in charge. I wish the Ford family would sell the team.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> The photo is actually from 1937.
> 
> Great observations about the saddle shoes, which I also noticed. And yes, Hank the Deuce could use some OTC socks.
> 
> Incidentally, William Clay oversaw the slow decline of the Detroit Lions into the mess we have today. His widow, Martha (Firestone) Ford, is now in charge. I wish the Ford family would sell the team.


I am embarrassed that I was so far off on the date - but, heck, I'm always wrong more than I am right.

My girlfriend's family lives in Michigan and lament that Lions greatly - they watch with a sort of sad resignation. I root for the Lions simply because I want my girlfriend's Dad to experience a great Lion's season.

And check out "Go Like Hell," fun read and will up your opinion of the Deuce.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> I am embarrassed that I was so far off on the date - but, heck, I'm always wrong more than I am right.
> 
> My girlfriend's family lives in Michigan and lament that Lions greatly - they watch with a sort of sad resignation. I root for the Lions simply because I want my girlfriend's Dad to experience a great Lion's season.
> 
> And check out "Go Like Hell," fun read and will up your opinion of the Deuce.


I think a lot of people would have guessed 1950s based on the attire, particularly the saddle shoes.

Living near Detroit makes one a bit auto weary, but I'll make it a point to check out "Go Like Hell." William Clay is the party to blame for decades of Lions ineptitude, not Hank the Deuce.

Like your girlfriend's father, I also would like to experience a truly great Lions season. Maybe next year, sigh.


----------



## AldenPyle

gamma68 said:


> The photo is actually from 1937.
> 
> Great observations about the saddle shoes, which I also noticed. And yes, Hank the Deuce could use some OTC socks.
> 
> Incidentally, William Clay oversaw the slow decline of the Detroit Lions into the mess we have today. His widow, Martha (Firestone) Ford, is now in charge. I wish the Ford family would sell the team.


Edsel's lapels look pretty 30's-ish.

William Clay Ford and the Lions did seem to be a case of nice guys finish last. People seemed to like and respect him, but he probably never put enough pressure on the organization to win.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Physicists
*


















Robert Oppenheimer


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Physicists*








Frank Oppenheimer


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Physicists
*
















Murray Gell-Mann


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Physicists
*















Kenneth Ford


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Physicists
*







Richard Tolman


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Physicists*








Leo Szilard


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr Szilard's tie appears to be knit (always like to see those in pictures from the Era) and his collar is rockin' and rollin' with a crazy wonderfulness.


----------



## CMDC

He forgot to carry the 2. Formula's all wrong.



AldenPyle said:


> *The Physicists
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Richard Tolman


----------



## Fading Fast

CMDC said:


> He forgot to carry the 2. Formula's all wrong.


:laughing:

I believe the reason physicists are always looking for parallel universes and other dimensions, etc., is because they know they are too damn smart to be stuck on this planet with the rest of us and they are just looking for a place to escape to so that they can get away from all of us normal (and to them) small-brain people.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Mr Szilard's tie appears to be knit (always like to see those in pictures from the Era) and his collar is rockin' and rollin' with a crazy wonderfulness.


I think the guy in the knit tie is an unknown reporter interviewing Szilard, but I loved his collar (and hat!) so much I thought he deserved notice.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Physicists
*
















Stanislaw Ulam


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> I think the guy in the knit tie is an unknown reporter interviewing Szilard, but I loved his collar (and hat!) so much I thought he deserved notice.


Once we get past Oppenheimer and a few of the other "giants," my knowledge of physicists plunges, QED.


----------



## bam3211

AldenPyle said:


> *The Painters
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andy Warhol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with Robert Indiana
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with Lichtenstein and Rauschenberg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and other Pop artists.


The painters series. That is all.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bam3211

FDR Jr.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Duvel

Like the tweed jacket, like the tie, not fond of the collar pin or the overcoat, and what's with keeping the jacket buttoned while sitting down.


----------



## Duvel

I love the pop artists! I don't see much trad here, though. It's kind of all over the map.



AldenPyle said:


> *The Painters
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andy Warhol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with Robert Indiana
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with Lichtenstein and Rauschenberg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and other Pop artists.


----------



## AldenPyle

bam3211 said:


> FDR Jr.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats pretty awesome. Was it 1930's? I am curious about the shearling overcoat.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Once we get past Oppenheimer and a few of the other "giants," my knowledge of physicists plunges, QED.


 Me too. Though even I have heard of Gell-Mann and Ulam. Anyway, enough with these guys.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians

*








The Monkees


----------



## bam3211

AldenPyle said:


> Thats pretty awesome. Was it 1930's? I am curious about the shearling overcoat.


Losing it over the jacket myself. I'm thinking 30s.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fading Fast

bam3211 said:


> Losing it over the jacket myself. I'm thinking 30s.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree on both - awesome picture overall and I think it is the '30s too - the collar bar feels '30s. My guess (as the background doesn't say much), is that might be a "country" outfit worn at one of the Roosevelt "camps" in New York State - I think they had one or more "camp" retreats in the family?

If I'm right that its "country" clothes for one of their "camps" (beyond being a first for me), it says '30s to me as by the '50s, he would be wearing more casual clothes - chinos, flannel shirt, etc.

All just guesses. But what an awesome outfit.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

The evil congressman from the first X-Men movie (yes, I'm pathetic enough to have rewound it, grabbed my Android, and snapped the television). Note the necktie:


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians

*








Nat "King" Cole


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians*








The Kingston Trio


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians*
























Eric Dolphy


----------



## L-feld

AldenPyle - I just noticed that you changed your signature to one of my favorite lines from Crying of Lot 49, one of the funniest novels ever. Poor Mucho and his car dealer PTSD.


----------



## AldenPyle

L-feld said:


> AldenPyle - I just noticed that you changed your signature to one of my favorite lines from Crying of Lot 49, one of the funniest novels ever. Poor Mucho and his car dealer PTSD.


Yeah, I previously had a quote from a William Gibson novel which was insightful, but a terribly written sentence. The new one is both appropriate and beautifully written, setting up the character as an absurdly over-the-top caricature of normalcy and then completely reversing the meaning with the last 5 words.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm not quite sure what exactly that sweater is that Eric Dolphy is wearing, but it's awesome.


----------



## Duvel




----------



## Fading Fast

⬆ That is almost the last year that "campus style" and Ivy dressing could be advertised that way. It was all about to end and boy was its demise quick. What a shame.

And no-break on the gentleman on the far left - Jacobi Press would be please.


----------



## CMDC

Agree. As is the other outfit. Just perfect. Love the waistcoat.



Fading Fast said:


> I'm not quite sure what exactly that sweater is that Eric Dolphy is wearing, but it's awesome.


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


>


And at the University of Michigan, no less. Way to represent, Maize and Blue. StC would be proud!

I like the black/brown saddle shoes Evashevski is wearing on the left.


----------



## Duvel

Yes, to me, that image is classic campus style. And you're right--it's interesting, and a little disheartening, to delve through those Esquire back issues and watch the decline. I subscribed yesterday and had a good romp through the "wearables" section from about 1960 through 1970. Things take a decided turn for the worse by 1966 in those pages.

I've posted this elsewhere, but just fyi, for $4.99 a month, you can subscribe to Esquire and access virtually every page of the magazine from its beginning. There's a lot to enjoy. As a magazine afficionado and journalism major and one-time magazine-editor-wannabe, I still can't get over the cover designs and images, and the graphic design, in general, from about the mid-1950s through the 1960s. Beautiful work, incredibly bold and modern feeling, in the best way, even by today's standards.



Fading Fast said:


> ⬆ That is almost the last year that "campus style" and Ivy dressing could be advertised that way. It was all about to end and boy was its demise quick. What a shame.
> 
> And no-break on the gentleman on the far left - Jacobi Press would be please.


----------



## Duvel

Everything in that photo is perfect, but i think the yellow sport coat is especially lovely.



gamma68 said:


> And at the University of Michigan, no less. Way to represent, Maize and Blue. StC would be proud!
> 
> I like the black/brown saddle shoes Evashevski is wearing on the left.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> And at the University of Michigan, no less. Way to represent, Maize and Blue. StC would be proud!
> 
> I like the black/brown saddle shoes Evashevski is wearing on the left.


My girlfriend is a UofM grad and smiled when I showed her the picture (not much dressing like that when she was there in the '80s she said).

And either your eyes or your monitor are fan-freakin'-tastic - I had to blow the picture up as much as I could to see the black-and-brown saddle shoes and only knew to do that after you pointed it out. Damn my cheap 15" MacBook Air (which is really a good computer, but the screen is only so so - bought it in a hurry and didn't get anti-glare, very stupid move).


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> And either your eyes or your monitor are fan-freakin'-tastic - I had to blow the picture up as much as I could to see the black-and-brown saddle shoes and only knew to do that after you pointed it out. Damn my cheap 15" MacBook Air (which is really a good computer, but the screen is only so so - bought it in a hurry and didn't get anti-glare, very stupid move).


Try this link: https://archive.esquire.com/image/spread/19650301/52/0


----------



## AldenPyle

Duvel said:


>


That's pretty cool. I could totally picture Billax in any of that.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians
*




























Burt Bacharach (with wife Angie Dickinson and partner Hal David)


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians
*








Irving Fine


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians

*

















Roy Haynes


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians
*
















Paul Desmond and Gerry Mulligan


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians
*

























Morton Feldman


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians

*







Earle Brown


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians
*








John Cage


----------



## adept

I thought the Kingston Trio, each of them, looked pretty good...right down to the shoes.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Musicians
*








Al Jardine


----------



## AldenPyle

Screenwriter and Broadway director Arthur Laurents (with Richard Rogers and Stephen Sondheim)


----------



## Fading Fast

I know there isn't much love for the turtleneck here at AAAC, but I think they are trad and on the right person, they look fantastic - as in the above photo.


----------



## Bernie Zack

AldenPyle said:


> *The Musicians
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Burt Bacharach (with wife Angie Dickinson and partner Hal David)


I saw him in 1989 at the 92nd Street Y in NYC. He sat at the piano and answered questions about his life, occasionally turning from the audience to play/sing a few lines. He is a very interesting character.


----------



## Corcovado

Huey Lewis (cameo on Jimmy Kimmel)


----------



## gamma68

Since we're on musicians, here's Frank Strozier:


----------



## Duvel

I'm an ignorant fool. I think I know some jazz and yet I've never heard of Strozier or Little. Great sidemen there!


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> I'm an ignorant fool. I think I know some jazz and yet I've never heard of Strozier or Little. Great sidemen there!


Booker Little was a fantastic trumpeter who died _far _too young. Check out his work with Max Roach and Eric Dolphy.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> I know there isn't much love for the turtleneck here at AAAC, but I think they are trad and on the right person, they look fantastic - as in the above photo.


Thats true. I actually don't think I have ever owned a turtleneck. Probably, I should try one this winter.



Corcovado said:


> Huey Lewis (cameo on Jimmy Kimmel)


Isn't he kind of a secret preppy?


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Senators of the Empire State
*
















Daniel Patrick Moynihan


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Thats true. I actually don't think I have ever owned a turtleneck. Probably, I should try one this winter.
> 
> Isn't he kind of a secret preppy?


I'm pretty sure Huey Lewis went to Lawrenceville School, a very preppy NJ private high school (a feeder for Princeton).


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> I'm pretty sure Huey Lewis went to Lawrenceville School, a very preppy NJ private high school (a feeder for Princeton).


..
Could be true. I listened to an interview with him, maybe on WTF, talking about going to hitchhike in Europe for a year before college and then just never going back. I think he got a harmonica credit on _My Aim is True._


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Senators of the Empire State
*
















John Foster Dulles


----------



## Corcovado




----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

AldenPyle said:


> *The Senators of the Empire State
> *


Is this an Avedon, from the same series as the famous shot of Eliot Richardson?

And, RE: _The Crying of Lot 49_, I find it funny that, in a Southwick Cambridge, I take a 37L, which the surplus store owner selling SS uniforms describes as a "teenager size."


----------



## AldenPyle

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Is this an Avedon, from the same series as the famous shot of Eliot Richardson?
> 
> And, RE: _The Crying of Lot 49_, I find it funny that, in a Southwick Cambridge, I take a 37L, which the surplus store owner selling SS uniforms describes as a "teenager size."


It's definitely Avedon, though I am not sure which series. Just looking this up, I found that Moynihan and Avedon were in-laws. Avedon's son married Moynihan's daughter.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

AldenPyle said:


> It's definitely Avedon, though I am not sure which series. Just looking this up, I found that Moynihan and Avedon were in-laws. Avedon's son married Moynihan's daughter.


Well, there you go. I'll have to ask my friend who's angling for a Avedon Foundation internship (or was, at least).


----------



## FLMike

Fading Fast said:


> I'm pretty sure Huey Lewis went to Lawrenceville School, a very preppy NJ private high school (a feeder for Princeton).


So did Dierks Bentley.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Senators of the Empire State
*
















Robert Kennedy


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Senators of the Empire State
*
























Kenneth Keating


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Senators of the Empire State
*

























James L. Buckley


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Senators of the Empire State
*








Charles E. Goodell


----------



## L-feld

Former Trump adviser, noted conspiracy theorist, and generally sharp-dressed wacko Roger Stone:


----------



## CMDC

Nice coordination of eye patch and silk knit tie


----------



## AldenPyle

L-feld said:


> Former Trump adviser, noted conspiracy theorist, and generally sharp-dressed wacko Roger Stone:


Nice. I remembered an interview with Stone where he bad-mouthed flat front pants, so I had written him off.


----------



## AldenPyle

Mclean Stevenson


----------



## wacolo

_*Tom Landry*_


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Poets*

















LeRoi Jones/Amiri Baraka


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Poets
*
















Robert Lowell


----------



## SG_67

Picking up on AldenPyle's photo essay, what about the Rock & Rollers?



















Buddy Holly.


----------



## Fading Fast

Anybody have any thoughts as to what material Robert Lowell's jacket is in the first picture? I'm thinking linen or linen blend owing to the comfortable wrinkles, light color and puckering around the lapel. 

SG_67 - good idea, so many of the early rockers (even the pre-psychedelic Stones and Beatles) wore a lot of Ivy clothing. Holly's tab collar and that sweater are great examples.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Anybody have any thoughts as to what material Robert Lowell's jacket is in the first picture? I'm thinking linen or linen blend owing to the comfortable wrinkles, light color and puckering around the lapel.
> 
> SG_67 - good idea, so many of the early rockers (even the pre-psychedelic Stones and Beatles) wore a lot of Ivy clothing. Holly's tab collar and that sweater are great examples.


My guess would be cotton. Lowell looks like he washed ashore in that jacket; Probably it would be even more wrinkled if linen.

British invasion guys were often very stylish in a trad way, but I am not sure that the 3-button sack ever made a dent in London fashion. Rockabilly and R&B and DooWop guys were mostly not going for a collegiate vibe (Holly something of an exception). Ricky Nelson had kind of an Ivy thing going for a while


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## SG_67

The Beach Boys


----------



## SG_67

Military Trad?


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Poets
*
















James Merrill


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Poets*
















Randall Jarrell


----------



## moltoelegante

AldenPyle said:


> *The Poets
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> James Merrill


Wow, he is Matthew Broderick's doppelganger! I actually thought you had the wrong name under the photo for a moment. Matthew Broderick:


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Poets
*
























Allen Tate


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Poets*
















John Ashbery


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Poets
*

























Robert Penn Warren


----------



## Fading Fast

I haven't gone back and counted or anything, but it seems that a meaningful number of Alden Pyle's outstanding posts (thank you for putting up so many great pictures) are of men wearing sport jackets or suits in herringbone patterns. While still a popular pattern today, was it more popular back in Ivy's heyday? The prior posts seem to argue so.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> I haven't gone back and counted or anything, but it seems that a meaningful number of Alden Pyle's outstanding posts (thank you for putting up so many great pictures) are of men wearing sport jackets or suits in herringbone patterns. While still a popular pattern today, was it more popular back in Ivy's heyday? The prior posts seem to argue so.


I am consciously and unconsciously biased toward picture the herringbone tweed. First, its the most vivid tweed pattern in black and white photos. There's no question that a herringbone tweed is a tweed even in small lo-res pictures. Plus it really pops out at you on screen. Second, the herringbone tweed shows the tailoring details of the jacket much better than darker jackets, so you can see the swelled edges or separated sleeve buttons, two to a sleeve and whatnot.

That said, I do think the herringbone, is maybe a bit more ostentatiously archaic in real life as well. I suspect that might make it less popular in these tweed unfriendly times.


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> I am consciously and unconsciously biased toward picture the herringbone tweed. First, its the most vivid tweed pattern in black and white photos. There's no question that a herringbone tweed is a tweed even in small lo-res pictures. Plus it really pops out at you on screen. Second, the herringbone tweed shows the tailoring details of the jacket much better than darker jackets, so you can see the swelled edges or separated sleeve buttons, two to a sleeve and whatnot.
> 
> That said, I do think the herringbone, is maybe a bit more ostentatiously archaic in real life as well. I suspect that might make it less popular in these tweed unfriendly times.


I didn't account for poster bias . Just kidding, great points about the benefits of using herringbone in B&W photography.

For pictures or movies, B&W film is something I love as it, IMHO, has a wonderful way of reducing whatever is shown to its more essential elements, but - counterintuitively - without loosing important details. It doesn't so much strip away as sharpen the focus - I am always disappointed when an old movie comes on TCM and it isn't in B&W - speech over.


----------



## AldenPyle

Literary Critic Cleanth Brooks


----------



## AldenPyle

Cliff Robertson


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Poets
*








Archibald MacLeish


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Technologists
*








Werner von Braun


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Technologists*








William Shockley


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Technologists
*







An Wang


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Technologists

*








John Tukey


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> *The Technologists
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Tukey


^ I'll let others comment on the short sleeves (see what I did there), but that's a heck of a wonderfully collar roll.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Not sure if this one has been posted before.

Tennis star Vic Seixas and his wife Dolly Ann in 1957.


----------



## Fading Fast

^ Great sack sport coat (or maybe suit jacket) on Seixas and I even like his tie clip (he's earned the right to wear that little gimmicky thing). He even has a nice classic tartan pattern on his tennis racket cover.

I like the material of his wife's dress, but that Peter Pan collar on steroids (or whatever it is - I know so little about women's clothes [and men's]) ruins it for me. You could cross post her picture to the "What does a Trad Girlfriend look like" thread. :thumbs-up:


----------



## AldenPyle

rmpmcdermott said:


> Not sure if this one has been posted before.
> 
> Tennis star Vic Seixas and his wife Dolly Ann in 1957.


Great picture. This is a picture of Seixas from Sports Illustrated, but I never managed to get it right.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Technologists
*

















Thomas Watson Jr.


----------



## AldenPyle

Bonus Watson w/ Cyrus Vance


----------



## rmpmcdermott

AldenPyle said:


> Great picture. This is a picture of Seixas from Sports Illustrated, but I never managed to get it right.


That photo of Seixas from SI is the background picture on my phone. Love it.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

AldenPyle said:


> Great picture. This is a picture of Seixas from Sports Illustrated, but I never managed to get it right.


For some reason I didn't realize you ran the natural shoulder tumblr. I've spent hours look at the photos you've posted. I really appreciate what you're doing!


----------



## Duvel

I prefer the Balmacaan-style overcoats on the gentlemen to the right and left of JFK but I imagine he is wearing the more presidential choice for that time.

I notice in so many photos of JFK that he has his left arm raised to touch a pocket or adjust a jacket button. This seems to have been a habit.


----------



## fred johnson

Duvel said:


> I prefer the Balmacaan-style overcoats on the gentlemen to the right and left of JFK but I imagine he is wearing the more presidential choice for that time.


I just picked up an amazing Irish Tweed Overcoat in the style of the man on JFK's left. It's a very long and full coat but fits nicely at the shoulders. Fully lined with those two way pockets that let you get to you trouser pockets without leaving the coat pockets.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I prefer the Balmacaan-style overcoats on the gentlemen to the right and left of JFK but I imagine he is wearing the more presidential choice for that time.
> 
> I notice in so many photos of JFK that he has his left arm raised to touch a pocket or adjust a jacket button. This seems to have been a habit.


Agreed, I much prefer the Balmacaan style - absolutely love that style of overcoat.

My guess, re the hand in pocket thing - either he was coached to do that by an image consultant or - with his back pain - maybe it helped to ease it. I have back issues periodically, and sometimes holding your arm in a certain way helps ease the pain.


----------



## Duvel

I have an ancient tweedy Balmacaan, too, that I love. And it's like wearing a furnace. 

FF, you could be right on both counts. What you do with your arms can have a lot to do with how natural or how ill at ease you look. And he did have quite the history of back pain.


----------



## L-feld

Duvel said:


> I prefer the Balmacaan-style overcoats on the gentlemen to the right and left of JFK but I imagine he is wearing the more presidential choice for that time.
> 
> I notice in so many photos of JFK that he has his left arm raised to touch a pocket or adjust a jacket button. This seems to have been a habit.


Most likely, JFK was hiding a lit cigar. He was a heavy smoker, but disliked being photographed with cigar in hand.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> My guess, re the hand in pocket thing - either he was coached to do that by an image consultant or - with his back pain - maybe it helped to ease it. I have back issues periodically, and sometimes holding your arm in a certain way helps ease the pain.


As someone who has had spine surgery and still deals with occasional bouts of sustained back pain, I can attest to having to maintain a certain position to keep discomfort at bay. I had the same thought as FF with regard to JFK's hand position being related to back pain.


----------



## AldenPyle

rmpmcdermott said:


> For some reason I didn't realize you ran the natural shoulder tumblr. I've spent hours look at the photos you've posted. I really appreciate what you're doing!


Thanks, thats nice of you to say.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Technologists*








Douglas Engelbart


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I have an ancient tweedy Balmacaan, too, that I love. And it's like wearing a furnace.
> 
> FF, you could be right on both counts. What you do with your arms can have a lot to do with how natural or how ill at ease you look. And he did have quite the history of back pain.


I think I remember that ridiculously gorgeous coat and would steal it from you without any sense of shame or guilt if I knew it was in my size. (Truly just kidding, but it is a spectacular coat.)


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Technologists
*







Vannevar Bush


----------



## AldenPyle

Rand Corp. presentation on nuclear fallout to Joint Committee on Atomic Energy


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers

*

















Joseph Mitchell


----------



## rmpmcdermott

My girlfriend's grandfather in 1978. Couldn't find any digital pics from earlier in the actual Ivy era, but even in the sad sartorial era of the late 70s he looked damn good in that 3/2 sack suit and OCBD.


----------



## AldenPyle

rmpmcdermott said:


> My girlfriend's grandfather in 1978. Couldn't find any digital pics from earlier in the actual Ivy era, but even in the sad sartorial era of the late 70s he looked damn good in that 3/2 sack suit and OCBD.


Great look to aspire to. According to Google Image search he lived a life to aspire to as well.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers
*








Donald Barthelme


----------



## Duvel

Thanks.

One of the few sartorial gems I feel ridiculously fortunate to have.



Fading Fast said:


> I think I remember that ridiculously gorgeous coat and would steal it from you without any sense of shame or guilt if I knew it was in my size. (Truly just kidding, but it is a spectacular coat.)


----------



## rmpmcdermott

AldenPyle said:


> Great look to aspire to. According to Google Image search he lived a life to aspire to as well.


He certainly led an interesting and fulfilling life from the stories my girlfriend's mother has told me. Pretty much made the modern Smithsonian, but was always very humble about it. Wish I'd been able to know him.


----------



## Duvel

Great.

For the record, I knew many gentlemen in the 1970s who remained well-dressed in spite of or because of the wayward (the distinction doesn't matter much really) fashion trends of the decade. I think one can find this true of any time, actually.



rmpmcdermott said:


> My girlfriend's grandfather in 1978. Couldn't find any digital pics from earlier in the actual Ivy era, but even in the sad sartorial era of the late 70s he looked damn good in that 3/2 sack suit and OCBD.


----------



## Duvel

I loved reading his stories in that rag out of New York. I had never seen a photo of him until now but this is almost how I had pictured him.



AldenPyle said:


> *The Writers
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Barthelme


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Duvel said:


> Great.
> 
> For the record, I knew many gentlemen in the 1970s who remained well-dressed in spite of or because of the wayward (the distinction doesn't matter much really) fashion trends of the decade. I think one can find this true of any time, actually.


I agree completely. Plus he was a Yalie who was a member of the Office of Strategic Services during WWII and then led the Smithsonian for 20 years. He was almost bred for the Ivy League Look!


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Great.
> 
> For the record, I knew many gentlemen in the 1970s who remained well-dressed in spite of or because of the wayward (the distinction doesn't matter much really) fashion trends of the decade. I think one can find this true of any time, actually.


Having grown up in the '70s, it was like there were two sartorial universes coexisting on one planet. For the most part, the younger generation and those of the older generation who just embraced it wore the loud, hippie-inspired fashions of the '70s - bold colors, flared sleeves and pants legs, crazy lapels, etc. Then you had the, mainly, middle-aged-to-older generation who continued to wear the clothes of the pre-cultural-change '60s. The town I lived in had a stop for a commuter train to NYC. You'd see business men getting off the train in Brooks suits, OCBD and repp ties along with college kids in bell bottoms and tie dyed shirts, etc. Even as a kid, who did not know any of the history I do today, you knew two worlds were colliding. Hair, clothes, the way they talked, walked - it was two distinct subcultures that you couldn't not notice.


----------



## Corcovado

Fading Fast said:


> Having grown up in the '70s, it was like there were two sartorial universes coexisting on one planet. For the most part, the younger generation and those of the older generation who just embraced it wore the loud, hippie-inspired fashions of the '70s - bold colors, flared sleeves and pants legs, crazy lapels, etc. Then you had the, mainly, middle-aged-to-older generation who continued to wear the clothes of the pre-cultural-change '60s. The town I lived in had a stop for a commuter train to NYC. You'd see business men getting off the train in Brooks suits, OCBD and repp ties along with college kids in bell bottoms and tie dyed shirts, etc. Even as a kid, who did not know any of the history I do today, you knew two worlds were colliding. Hair, clothes, the way they talked, walked - it was two distinct subcultures that you couldn't not notice.


The New Yorker ran a cartoon once on this very juxtaposition:


----------



## Fading Fast

Corcovado said:


> The New Yorker ran a cartoon once on this very juxtaposition:


Awesome that you remembered it and found it. And, yup, that's what the train station looked like growing up in the '70s, except being a college town, it also had a lot of left over hippies and hippie-lite dressers.


----------



## Duvel

Funny. I would certainly say that's the way it was, generally speaking, until about the mid to later 1970s. There was also a third strain that looked, to use a term not really in vogue at the time, preppy, not among working men but among college guys like me. I later saw this trend show up in the new wave music scene--look at how a number of bands like Talking Heads, the Feelies, and the like dressed circa 76-79 or so. It's how kids like me who grew up in the 'burbs dressed, who identified neither with hippies nor with classically dressed business men, nor with outlandish trends fostered by rock, disco, or punk rock. I think of it as sort of suburban kid prep or college kid quasi-Ivy.


----------



## Corcovado

*we dress like students, we dress like housewives, or in a suit and a tie...*



Duvel said:


> Funny. I would certainly say that's the way it was, generally speaking, until about the mid to later 1970s. There was also a third strain that looked, to use a term not really in vogue at the time, preppy, not among working men but among college guys like me. I later saw this trend show up in the new wave music scene--look at how a number of bands like Talking Heads, the Feelies, and the like dressed circa 76-79 or so. It's how kids like me who grew up in the 'burbs dressed, who identified neither with hippies nor with classically dressed business men, nor with outlandish trends fostered by rock, disco, or punk rock. I think of it as sort of suburban kid prep or college kid quasi-Ivy.


On a related note....









Lisa Bernbach, TOPH page 164


----------



## Duvel

Thanks! I forgot about that part of the Handbook.


----------



## adept

Sloppy Louie's serves lobster? I'm shocked! LOL



AldenPyle said:


> *The Writers
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph Mitchell


----------



## AldenPyle

I'm a little too young to have much consciousness of the 1970s, but it seems there was a kind of in-between look, adjusting hair length and sideburns and lapel width but continuing a basic suit and tie look


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Cavett wore Press as well.

https://www.ivy-style.com/golden-years-mr-cavetts-wardrobe-furnished-by-j-press.html



AldenPyle said:


> I'm a little too young to have much consciousness of the 1970s, but it seems there was a kind of in-between look, adjusting hair length and sideburns and lapel width but continuing a basic suit and tie look


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## L-feld

Yankee as they get Angus King.



















Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers
*
















Nathanael West


----------



## Balfour

:icon_pale:

MTV's take on trad, surely?!


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers
*







John O'Hara


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Balfour said:


> :icon_pale:
> 
> MTV's take on trad, surely?!


GQ, I think.

I like Talking Heads, but anybody wearing Prada _and_ Dockers needs to take a look at their life.

And an '83 S-Class is objectively less trad than a W123 E-class.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> And an '83 S-Class is objectively less trad than a W123 E-class.


Do you realize that W123s are serious hipster cars? Mind you, given how narrow and inward looking "trad" has become in this forum, I don't suppose there's much difference between trads and hipsters anymore!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Doctor Damage said:


> Do you realize that W123s are serious hipster cars? Mind you, given how narrow and inward looking "trad" has become in this forum, I don't suppose there's much difference between trads and hipsters anymore!


I went to film school. I wear plastic glasses. I drink flat whites. I think it might be possible that my perceptions about "trad" are through a hipster lens (I think Warby Parker sells those, but I wouldn't know because they're too mainstream for me). :icon_viking:

But, seriously, I figured the W123 and the Volvo 240 were kind of the overlap between trad and hipsterish. Like Alden boots or going to Brown.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers

*








Norman Mailer


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers*















John Updike


----------



## Fading Fast

^^^ Handsome sweater.


----------



## wacolo

Studs Terkel


----------



## rmpmcdermott

A journalistic hero of mine.



wacolo said:


> Studs Terkel


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers

*








John Cheever


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## GRH

Industrial designer Peter Muller-Munk, 1957


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Has anyone noticed that John Payne wears button-down collars throughout _Miracle on 34th Street_, even in court?


----------



## eagle2250

wacolo said:


> Studs Terkel


I too am a big fan of this guy's books! Perhaps it's time to rummage through the bookcase and pull a volume out for a refresher read? :thumbs-up:


----------



## wilhelm00

I've worn button downs almost every day to court for nearly 16 years. Both as a state prosecutor and as a fed. I've done trials of every description and even the Ninth Circuit. My Dad wore them exclusively throughout a 30+ year career as a prosecutor. WASP to the end.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Has anyone noticed that John Payne wears button-down collars throughout _Miracle on 34th Street_, even in court?


----------



## Duvel

Updike's one of those who always seemed to not quite get it right. I don't think he was all that conscious of what he wore, or cared. It seemed like it was kind of Ivy but not really, and not even stylish or fashionable. He just seemed to wear something he threw on.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Duvel said:


> Updike's one of those who always seemed to not quite get it right. I don't think he was all that conscious of what he wore, or cared. It seemed like it was kind of Ivy but not really, and not even stylish or fashionable. He just seemed to wear something he threw on.


There is something to this, but as Updike got older he seemed awfully, um, by the book in his ivy wear.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> There is something to this, but as Updike got older he seemed awfully, um, by the book in his ivy wear.


I agree with this. I kind of suspect that he just started shopping exclusively at J.Press or the Andover Shop.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers
*







Louis Auchincloss


----------



## HerrDavid

Duvel said:


> Updike's one of those who always seemed to not quite get it right. I don't think he was all that conscious of what he wore, or cared. It seemed like it was kind of Ivy but not really, and not even stylish or fashionable. He just seemed to wear something he threw on.


Funny, what you describe is, in my view, precisely what getting it right means.


----------



## kennya123

I'm wearing a brooks brothers ocbd, an English sports shop Bermuda tie and a timex watch on a nato strap in court today and I've worn button down collars for years in court as a defense attorney up here in Massachusetts. Based on my observations a lot of lawyers wear button down collars in the state district courts here



SlideGuitarist said:


> Has anyone noticed that John Payne wears button-down collars throughout _Miracle on 34th Street_, even in court?


----------



## gamma68

Nat King Cole


----------



## SlideGuitarist

gamma68 said:


> Nat King Cole


Thanks! That's a particularly apt reminder, given that Cole recorded one of the best Christmas albums ever.


----------



## Ekphrastic

AldenPyle said:


> *The Writers
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donald Barthelme


HOLY COW. I've never seen those pictures of Don before! What a hoot!

His brother, Rick, has a similar style--he primarily wears OCBDs and penny loafers, though. Man, I might have to send him those pictures to remind him of what the family used to look like...


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers

*









E.B. White


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Writers
*























William Gaddis


----------



## jfkemd

As seen in the Ivy-Style blog...

https://www.ivy-style.com/in-memoriam-robert-edward-royall-huntley-president-of-wl.html


----------



## wilhelm00

I agree. Although, since switching to the Feds, it seems like the guys who've never been state court attorneys tend to not wear button downs. I've also noticed that the former state prosecutors are more relaxed in court than the AUSA's who have never been anything but Feds or who came from civil.



kennya123 said:


> I'm wearing a brooks brothers ocbd, an English sports shop Bermuda tie and a timex watch on a nato strap in court today and I've worn button down collars for years in court as a defense attorney up here in Massachusetts. Based on my observations a lot of lawyers wear button down collars in the state district courts here


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Publishers*









Albert Erskine and Bennett Cerf (with John O'Hara)


----------



## Robertson

Hopefully not too off-topic, but I noticed noticed some of the characters in my son's Arthur books appear to dress Ivy/Trad.


----------



## AldenPyle

^American Trad/Goat


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Publishers

*















George Plimpton


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Publishers
*








Jason Epstein


----------



## Duvel

RIP

https://www.ivy-style.com/last-of-the-buttoned-down-artists-ellsworth-kelly-1923-2015.html


----------



## AldenPyle

Duvel said:


> RIP
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/last-of-the-buttoned-down-artists-ellsworth-kelly-1923-2015.html


There were some nice pictures of Kelly on Getty Images but I can't figure out how to embed them here.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Publishers
*








Hugh Hefner


----------



## Duvel

Ellsworth Kelly


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Hosts
*







Dick Clark


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Hosts

*








Alastair Cooke


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Hemingway's passport photo from 1923: that is a button-down collar, right?


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Hosts

*








Allen Ludden


----------



## Duvel

Mon pere. 2016 will be my first year without him being around. He rarely did not have a smile on his face. He's wearing the frames I loved when I was a kid, although his taste in eyewear became more generic in the 70s.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Mon pere. 2016 will be my first year without him being around. He rarely did not have a smile on his face. He's wearing the frames I loved when I was a kid, although his taste in eyewear became more generic in the 70s.


Very sorry for your loss Duvel.

I lost my father 26 years ago and still think about this every day. What is nice - and you have this to look forward to - at some point, the sadness and loss fade a bit and the good memories and fun times become more what you think about. Or at least that what I try to do and, for the most part, it works.

Your Dad had an electric smile, looks like he could light up a room with it. I'm glad he used it a lot.


----------



## adept

Sorry for your loss. I'm partial to old family photos...like this one, they have a lot in them.



> Mon pere. 2016 will be my first year without him being around. He rarely did not have a smile on his face. He's wearing the frames I loved when I was a kid, although his taste in eyewear became more generic in the 70s.


----------



## gamma68

Walter "Buzzer" Hall teaching a precept at Princeton in the 1940s.


----------



## gamma68

Princeton English Dept., 1956


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> Mon pere. 2016 will be my first year without him being around. He rarely did not have a smile on his face. He's wearing the frames I loved when I was a kid, although his taste in eyewear became more generic in the 70s.


I'm sorry for your loss Duvel.


----------



## Duvel

Thank you, Howard, adept, and Fading Fast.

He was a high school teacher (American history, political science, and social studies, primarily, and occasionally conversational Spanish) and then a high school principal.

He could go under AldenPyle's *Educator *series.  He got a BA from Iowa in '57, masters in '65 and PhD csomewhere around 72, I think (about the time of this photo), both degrees also from Iowa. Although he officially retired in the late 1980s, he loved education so much that he stayed in it up until a year before he died (this past March) by directing the before-and-after-school program for the local Catholic school.



adept said:


> Sorry for your loss. I'm partial to old family photos...like this one, they have a lot in them.


----------



## AldenPyle

Duvel said:


> Mon pere. 2016 will be my first year without him being around. He rarely did not have a smile on his face. He's wearing the frames I loved when I was a kid, although his taste in eyewear became more generic in the 70s.


Great picture. My condolences. A subtext of this thread over the last couple of years has been the passing of the generation that made this style what it was. Many of us are feeling this loss in more personal ways, as well.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Hosts
*








Dick Cavett


----------



## CornoUltimo

Rachmaninoff-semi American and the 1920/30s version of trad

]


----------



## Fading Fast

^^^ That is a Polo coat. Wow.


----------



## L-feld

The inimitable Stan Freberg


----------



## Duvel

I like this recent PTO article on Fairfield Porter, especially the point at the end about fussiness:

Point to well taken!


----------



## Fading Fast

"Breakfast at Tiffany's" can be watched for the style alone.


----------



## Duvel

The break on the trousers. This is what it's about.



Fading Fast said:


> "Breakfast at Tiffany's" can be watched for the style alone.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> Walter "Buzzer" Hall teaching a precept at Princeton in the 1940s.


Somehow I missed this one till now. Awesome picture. I guess it's true, every college kid didn't dress right out of Apparel Arts. What are those sneakers / plimsolls that the kid in the near right (with his back to us) is wearing? Also, love the boots and jeans - also something I didn't expect.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> The break on the trousers. This is what it's about.


The movie is 1961 trad / Ivy clothing porn. There's even a scene in his ridiculously large walk in closet (this is NYC, walk in closets are apartments!).

And Audrey puts on quite a show too.


----------



## Duvel

Yep. It's one of my favorite old movies for many reasons, not least of which is the clothing. However, the blatant racism of Rooney's portrayal drives me nuts, one of the movie's clunkiest flaws.



Fading Fast said:


> The movie is 1961 trad / Ivy clothing porn. There's even a scene in his ridiculously large walk in closet (this is NYC, walk in closets are apartments!).
> 
> And Audrey puts on quite a show too.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> Somehow I missed this one till now. Awesome picture. I guess it's true, every college kid didn't dress right out of Apparel Arts. What are those sneakers / plimsolls that the kid in the near right (with his back to us) is wearing? Also, love the boots and jeans - also something I didn't expect.


I also noticed the details you mentioned. I love how the Prof. has them in the palm of his hand. He is said to have been a living legend.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Yep. It's one of my favorite old movies for many reasons, not least of which is the clothing. However, the blatant racism of Rooney's portrayal drives me nuts, one of the movie's clunkiest flaws.


It is the one horrible flaw in the movie. Even if you "accept" that, unfortunately, that was the horrible stereotyping of the time, the character still seems forced into the movie - he's out of step with the movie's flow, style and feel. Away from that (and the changed ending from the book), it is one of my favorite movies, in part, because the style is so simplistically elegant.


----------



## Duvel

Yes, I would agree with all of that. Terrific movie in spite of the flaws.



Fading Fast said:


> It is the one horrible flaw in the movie. Even if you "accept" that, unfortunately, that was the horrible stereotyping of the time, the character still seems forced into the movie - he's out of step with the movie's flow, style and feel. Away from that (and the changed ending from the book), it is one of my favorite movies, in part, because the style is so simplistically elegant.


----------



## Duvel

*The Preppy Film Couples

*


----------



## eagle2250

^^
It's been said that "love is never having to say you are sorry!" Hence, you are forgiven...LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> *The Preppy Film Couples
> 
> *


Painful movie, but I watch it for the clothes when it's on. Yes, I'm that sad a human being.


----------



## Duvel

I'm right there with you. In fact, I took inspiration for what I wore today from Oliver's outfit above.



Fading Fast said:


> Painful movie, but I watch it for the clothes when it's on. Yes, I'm that sad a human being.


----------



## Corcovado

Jack Nicholson


----------



## Fading Fast

Two movies with great Trad clothing (and both are good movies)

"Anatomy of a Murder"


"Executive Suite"


----------



## Duvel

I notice in these movies that the good guys often are identifiable by the clean no-break length of their trousers.  In the above, William Holding is even pointing, and saying: "See? NO break. Got it?"

Jimmy is saying, "Wh-wh-why yes, your Honor. Th-This IS a tweed suit."


----------



## Fading Fast

^^^And, by the '50s, the bad guys (usually, not always) wore the double breasted suits.

And how awesome is Jimmy Stewart's suit?


----------



## rmpmcdermott

My all time favorite movie for Ivy style is Sabrina. William Holden nails it perfectly. I'm sure there have already been photos from that film in this thread, but I'll post one for good measure.


----------



## Fading Fast

^^^ Fantastic movie for clothes (I love when they try to "soften" Bogie down by having him wear his letterman sweater). And Holden is a playboy in this role, but in, as you noted, perfect Ivy attire.

Regularly read Royko growing up - didn't always agree with his view, but respected his talent as a writer.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Fading Fast said:


> Regularly read Royko growing up - didn't always agree with his view, but respected his talent as a writer.


Agreed. I have a collection of his columns and though I don't always agree, he was a real reporter the likes of which are rare today. And his columns were incredibly well researched and reported whereas now, often, columns seem to just be opinion spewing without much thought to the journalism behind good opinion writing. He's definitely a professional hero of mine.


----------



## Duvel

Awesome!



Fading Fast said:


> And how awesome is Jimmy Stewart's suit?


----------



## Duvel

Yes, not bad... when I can take my eyes away from Audrey Hepburn.



rmpmcdermott said:


> My all time favorite movie for Ivy style is Sabrina. William Holden nails it perfectly. I'm sure there have already been photos from that film in this thread, but I'll post one for good measure.


----------



## adept

Nice, but I've never seen a colorized version of it...



rmpmcdermott said:


> My all time favorite movie for Ivy style is Sabrina. William Holden nails it perfectly. I'm sure there have already been photos from that film in this thread, but I'll post one for good measure.


----------



## Howard

How is this for trad?


----------



## rmpmcdermott

adept said:


> Nice, but I've never seen a colorized version of it...


From what I understand this photo is from a shoot they did during the filming in New York City, not a still from the actual movie.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Preppy Film Couples
*








Timothy Hutton and Elizabeth McGovern


----------



## Duvel

Nice. From Ordinary People?



AldenPyle said:


> *The Preppy Film Couples
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timothy Hutton and Elizabeth McGovern


----------



## AldenPyle

Yeah, good movie, though maybe not the best movie made that year.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Hosts*








Rod Serling


----------



## Fading Fast

Sterling - at least in his "The Twilight Zone" introductions - is a great example of the American Trad, early '60s, narrow lapel, skinny tie period. The man absolutely knew how to wear a tab collar and, in general, tailored his clothing on the tighter side, but they looked great.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Accused
*








Sam Sheppard


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Accused
*








Jeb Stuart Magruder


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> Sterling - at least in his "The Twilight Zone" introductions - is a great example of the American Trad, early '60s, narrow lapel, skinny tie period. The man absolutely knew how to wear a tab collar and, in general, tailored his clothing on the tighter side, but they looked great.


Serling, according to credits, wore Eagle Clothes. From time to time I see that clothier pop up on eBay. But I've not seen any items in person.


----------



## Roycru

American Trad Men's Trouser Lengths in 1920........


----------



## Oldsport

@ Roycru - I find the picture you posted very interesting. Those pants look just like the GQ (modern) photos that everybody seems to hate. That is, shorter pants and a very 'skinny' fit. Not to mention the extremely tailored jacket of the gentleman just to the right of the woman in the bathing suit. It's just curious to me.


----------



## Fading Fast

Triathlete said:


> @ Roycru - I find the picture you posted very interesting. Those pants look just like the GQ (modern) photos that everybody seems to hate. That is, shorter pants and a very 'skinny' fit. Not to mention the extremely tailored jacket of the gentleman just to the right of the woman in the bathing suit. It's just curious to me.


Unless a breakout to a new construct (no suits, blazers, etc., to, I don't know, jumpsuits), there is nothing else to do but tweak the details - wider, narrower, higher, lower, another button, one less button, etc. Today's super narrow echoes, as you noted, those 1920s looks and, also, the skinny, pre-hippie '60s looks (not a carbon copy, but similar). There's nothing else for "fashion" or "clothing companies" to do as they want to have change so that you and I have a reason to buy. Other than the high-rise of his trousers, there are outfits Paul Newman wore in his movies in the '60s that look pretty darn close to today's skinny clothes.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Accused
*








Bill Cosby


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Accused*

















Alger Hiss


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Officers of the Court
*








Roy Cohn


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Officers of the Court*









Los Angeles Defense Attorney Grant Cooper


----------



## AldenPyle

*Officers of the Court
*








Adrian Coulter Leiby


----------



## GRH

*Joy ride*

Sort of American, sort of trad: https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/&#8230;/2014/03/ties-to-the-past/&#8230;
(Photo upload process continues to baffle; why no drag-and-drop?)


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Officers of the Court*

















Cy Vance Jr.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Roy Cohn looks even nastier with a flag in hand.


----------



## AldenPyle

SlideGuitarist said:


> Roy Cohn looks even nastier with a flag in hand.


 No doubt intentional.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Officers of the Court*
























Byron White


----------



## Natty Beau

Triathlete said:


> @ Roycru - I find the picture you posted very interesting. Those pants look just like the GQ (modern) photos that everybody seems to hate. That is, shorter pants and a very 'skinny' fit. Not to mention the extremely tailored jacket of the gentleman just to the right of the woman in the bathing suit. It's just curious to me.


I can't remember where I read it, but I read a scanned magazine articles from around 1945 that discussed how tailors after WWII finally understood what returning vets really wanted--loose, comfortable suits!--as opposed to the tailors clothing the veterans of WWI who supposed that their clients wanted suits that resembled the trimness and fit of their military uniforms. Hence the tight, skinny suits of the early 1920s, before Oxford bags.

Also regarding the short inseams, it's useful to remember that it was common to wear ankle-high boots with suits back at that time.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Officers of the Court

*








Clifford Alexander


----------



## jimw

I saw this in theatres - was maybe 12 or 13. Elizabeth McGovern sure set a high bar for me on the girls I hoped to date and have fall for me in turn!! Those eyes.....


AldenPyle said:


> *The Preppy Film Couples
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Timothy Hutton and Elizabeth McGovern


----------



## Fading Fast

jimw said:


> I saw this in theatres - was maybe 12 or 13. Elizabeth McGovern sure set a high bar for me on the girls I hoped to date and have fall for me in turn!! Those eyes.....


And now you can see her on "Downton Abbey." I don't know that I saw her do anything in between. I, too, saw "Ordinary People" when it came out and she seemed to disappear after that until popping up on "Downton."


----------



## echappist

Fading Fast said:


> And now you can see her on "Downton Abbey." I don't know that I saw her do anything in between. I, too, saw "Ordinary People" when it came out and she seemed to disappear after that until popping up on "Downton."


i must hang my head in shame for the only movie of hers that I have seen is Once Upon a Time in America. Dapperly dressed men, yes, and perhaps even trads, but almost all wolves in sheeps' cloth...


----------



## jimw

She never really was a leading lady, but an effective character actor. Looked great in "She's Having a Baby" with Kevin Bacon, was lacked clothes at times in Ragtime, and had a good role in the depressing "Handmaid's Tale" In Downton Abbey, she has aged rather well.....


echappist said:


> i must hang my head in shame for the only movie of hers that I have seen is Once Upon a Time in America. Dapperly dressed men, yes, and perhaps even trads, but almost all wolves in sheeps' cloth...


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Officers of the Court
*
































Potter Stewart


----------



## Bermuda

Matt Damon in the prep school movie School Ties. Blue Oxford button down, repp tie, tweed jacket


----------



## sbdivemaster

*Bill Ruger, c. 1950, sporting a 3/2 sack in herringbone tweed.*
(Why do I get the feeling that if he opened that sport coat, we'd see a Harris Tweed label?  )


----------



## AldenPyle

^Nifty. 
Lawford and Kennedy


----------



## jimw

Apparently, Lawford kept this image prominently on display. jFK's lack of respect for his brother in law was such that he remarked (paraphrasing here): "My God, I hate that photo - it looks as though I'm actually listening to what Peter has to say!"
Lawford and Kennedy







[/QUOTE]


----------



## sbdivemaster

jimw said:


> Apparently, Lawford kept this image prominently on display. jFK's lack of respect for his brother in law was such that he remarked (paraphrasing here): "My God, I hate that photo - it looks as though I'm actually listening to what Peter has to say!"
> Lawford and Kennedy


I was going to say that JFK seems to look as if he's thinking, "Jeez, what a dumbass..."


----------



## gamma68

Bobby Fischer involved in a very Trad pursuit:


----------



## Fading Fast

Bermuda said:


> View attachment 15743
> Matt Damon in the prep school movie School Ties. Blue Oxford button down, repp tie, tweed jacket


Good movie, great clothes.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Guardians*
















Kingman Brewster


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Guardians*









Elliot Richardson








Cyrus Vance








Bishop Paul Moore


----------



## AldenPyle

jimw said:


> Apparently, Lawford kept this image prominently on display. jFK's lack of respect for his brother in law was such that he remarked (paraphrasing here): "My God, I hate that photo - it looks as though I'm actually listening to what Peter has to say!"
> Lawford and Kennedy


[/QUOTE]
Funny story. Check out this atrocity proving even the giants sometimes have feet of clay or at least feet of tube socks.


----------



## L-feld

Darren McGavin as Carl Kolchak in his uniform of seersucker sack, blue oxford, black knit tie and straw hat.


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Guardians*
















John Lindsay


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Guardians*
















McGeorge Bundy








William P. Bundy


----------



## jimw

Love it!! Darren McGavin was an awesome actor, but I appreciate you pointing out his trad bona fides. I can still remember Kolchak as a kid - it sorta scared me.


L-feld said:


> Darren McGavin as Carl Kolchak in his uniform of seersucker sack, blue oxford, black knit tie and straw hat.


----------



## L-feld

jimw said:


> Love it!! Darren McGavin was an awesome actor, but I appreciate you pointing out his trad bona fides. I can still remember Kolchak as a kid - it sorta scared me.


Great show. I hadn't thought about it in a few, but I was watching this week's new X Files episode and there was a Were-human (a lizard who was bitten by a human and subsequently turned into a human during the daylight) who was wearing an outfit that was clearly a Kolchak homage. My wife said "oh, look at that guy. He's wearing your summer look."


----------



## Bermuda

Dr. Indiana Jones


----------



## AldenPyle

L-feld said:


> Great show. I hadn't thought about it in a few, but I was watching this week's new X Files episode and there was a Were-human (a lizard who was bitten by a human and subsequently turned into a human during the daylight) who was wearing an outfit that was clearly a Kolchak homage. My wife said "oh, look at that guy. He's wearing your summer look."


X-Files is pretty much a Kolchak homage


----------



## Bermuda

Professor Henry Jones in a tweed suit and hat


----------



## AldenPyle

Yale golf team 1957&1958


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I assume that Robert Lowell has already appeared here?


----------



## AldenPyle

How about Lowell George?


----------



## L-feld

AldenPyle said:


> How about Lowell George?


Boy did his look go downhill.

I always loved the first few Little Feat records and, even more, the albums they did with Robert Palmer. RIP both of them.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

L-feld said:


> Boy did his look go downhill.
> 
> I always loved the first few Little Feat records and, even more, the albums they did with Robert Palmer. RIP both of them.


Indeed! I don't usually like jam bands, but Little Feat were special.


----------



## AldenPyle

Gram Parsons


----------



## AldenPyle

*The Odds and Ends*









Poet Kenneth Koch


----------



## AldenPyle

Allen Ginsberg


----------



## AldenPyle

CIA Director George H.W. Bush


----------



## Oldsport

I'm a total G.H.W. fan!


----------



## eagle2250

^^+1.

A man who unjustly lost far too many votes for doing the right thing!


----------



## AldenPyle

Lawyer Clifford Alexander


----------



## AldenPyle

Harvard Classics Professor Zeph Stewart


----------



## gamma68

Bud Collins, RIP










I met him once and saw him frequently at Wimbledon. He only wore the GTH pants while on TV.


----------



## wilhelm00

Esquire's "fashion tribes" from a few years ago.



Balfour said:


> :icon_pale:
> 
> MTV's take on trad, surely?!


----------



## gamma68

William Zinsser. The writer's writer. The Trad's Trad. Check out the collar roll in his portrait.


----------



## Proclus

Putting together a slide show for class, I ran across this:










It's probably a bad sign that I cared more about the jacket and collar than the man and his discovery.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> William Zinsser. The writer's writer. The Trad's Trad. Check out the collar roll in his portrait.


I will go to my grave not knowing why, but an all-over-the-place collar roll is one of life's quietly elegant pleasures.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

^^^ McQueen looks awesome and shows how Trad has a timeless cool to it. 

That said, I've read that his nonchalance was anything but. He put great thought into his clothes with - and this is a lesson, certainly for me - an emphasis on fit / tailoring. 

While he looks very comfortable and natural, it is nice to know that he worked hard to pull off the "I didn't work hard at this" look.


----------



## ran23

Got a haircut today, grabbed my jacket and scarf, happens to match the plaid of my trench coat, my stylist wondered If I did that on purpose. smiled


----------



## Coliningus

Matt Murdock, super trad:


----------



## AldenPyle

Historian Howard Zinn


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/nzfwno96j/ https://postimg.org/image/p8gnbs7ej/ https://postimg.org/image/ptkhgofaz/


----------



## CSG

God love Bill Murray.


----------



## gamma68

Doctor Damage said:


> https://postimg.org/image/nzfwno96j/ https://postimg.org/image/p8gnbs7ej/ https://postimg.org/image/ptkhgofaz/


I have a patchwork madras jacket very close to this one. Looking forward to wearing it this summer, especially after seeing Bill Murray with his.


----------



## Howard

It's Bob Dylan's birthday today.


----------



## Doctor Damage

gamma68 said:


> I have a patchwork madras jacket very close to this one. Looking forward to wearing it this summer, especially after seeing Bill Murray with his.


Make sure your jacket is rumpled!


----------



## AldenPyle

1964


----------



## Doctor Damage

1988 and 1989


----------



## AldenPyle

1947








UVa


----------



## AldenPyle

1948









La Salle


----------



## AldenPyle

1949








Holdens on Vacation


----------



## AldenPyle

1950








Alton Pickens


----------



## AldenPyle

1951








Charles Morton


----------



## AldenPyle

1952








David Sinton Ingalls


----------



## Fading Fast

David Sinton Ingalls was scripted out of central casting - he was a WWI Naval flying ace. Those guys had guts to just get in the planes of that era, let alone be shot at in them. To then have the presence of mind to shoot down other planes - while being shot at - with the rudimentary targeting systems and guns they had reflects a level of skill, focus and guts that very, very few have.

And that is how a man wears a suit, that suit is not wearing him in any way. My favorite suit - nope; all the details right - nope; but he so owns it, it doesn't matter.


----------



## AldenPyle

1953








Charles Bohlen


----------



## AldenPyle

1954








DuMont Studio


----------



## AldenPyle

1955








IBM Technician


----------



## AldenPyle

1956









William Brennan


----------



## AldenPyle

1957








Life magazine journalists


----------



## AldenPyle

1958








Arthur Manchee


----------



## adept

The cuffs have serious depth...



AldenPyle said:


> 1952
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Sinton Ingalls


----------



## AldenPyle

1959








Administrator National Aquarium Washington D.C.


----------



## L-feld

Stopped by Press in DC to pick up a custom order and Chris mentioned in conversation that Lindsey Graham was a customer. I'm surprised he hasn't come up before.


----------



## Newlife2014

Simple and conservative.



AldenPyle said:


> Lawyer Clifford Alexander


----------



## Newlife2014

Watched all current episodes. I think he dress well for a blind lawyer.


Coliningus said:


> Matt Murdock, super trad:


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> 1959
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Administrator National Aquarium Washington D.C.


Fantastic suit - bold and Trad.


----------



## gamma68

L-feld said:


> Stopped by Press in DC to pick up a custom order and Chris mentioned in conversation that Lindsey Graham was a customer. I'm surprised he hasn't come up before.


I'd be more convinced of his "Tradness" if he wore button-down collars and didn't appear in public sans tie while exposing his undershirt.

Howard Dean has struck me as one of the more "Trad dressed" politicians.


----------



## L-feld

gamma68 said:


> I'd be more convinced of his "Tradness" if he wore button-down collars and didn't appear in public sans tie while exposing his undershirt.
> 
> Howard Dean has struck me as one of the more "Trad dressed" politicians.


Yeah, always enjoyed the way HD dressed.

What I find interesting about LG is that his taste for 3/2 sacks and J. Press is apparently a recent development. All the photos I posted are from the past year or so. From what I can tell, he has historically worn darted, high roll 3 button suits. He's also started occasionally wearing button down collars recently (one of the photos above).

Since my assumption is that nothing in politics is ever an accident, I would like to know if there is any intention behind breaking out the sack suits for his presidential bid. Sort of a reverse HW, if you will.

At any rate, this MTM Southwick sack made it onto the CNBC debate:










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## AldenPyle

1960







Pranksters at Harvard-Yale game


----------



## AldenPyle

1961









Central Park


----------



## AldenPyle

1962








Amory Bradford

(Obituary worth reading https://www.nytimes.com/1998/09/06/us/amory-bradford-85-times-general-manager.html)


----------



## AldenPyle

1963








Federal Reserve economist


----------



## Fading Fast

Another example of my favorite type of tab collar - tight and with short collar points. The tab collar gets less love here than I think it should, but it definitely had a pretty good run in Trad history.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Another example of my favorite type of tab collar - tight and with short collar points. The tab collar gets less love here than I think it should, but it definitely had a pretty good run in Trad history.


Probably works best with very thin tie, but not many on sale these days.


----------



## AldenPyle

1964









Charles Percy


----------



## AldenPyle

1965









Presidential Scholar


----------



## AldenPyle

1966








Harold Bache


----------



## AldenPyle

1967








Olin Stephens


----------



## AldenPyle

1968








Julian Bond


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> 1966
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harold Bache


Any one have any thoughts on the suit jacket or sport coat here. Whipcord, maybe? Also the pick-stitching seems surprising, I would have thought it would have had a swelled edge.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Any one have any thoughts on the suit jacket or sport coat here. Whipcord, maybe? Also the pick-stitching seems surprising, I would have thought it would have had a swelled edge.


Could be pincord


----------



## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> Could be pincord


I think you are right, whipcord would be tighter and more angled.


----------



## AldenPyle

I thought it was pincord.


----------



## AldenPyle

1969








Clement Haynsworth


----------



## AldenPyle

1970









Joe Bodovitz


----------



## AldenPyle

1971








George H.W, Bush


----------



## AldenPyle

1972








Cal State Poly


----------



## Charles Dana

AldenPyle said:


> 1972
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cal State Poly


Nice jacket. Was that photo taken in 1972, or yesterday?


----------



## AldenPyle

1973








H.R, Haldeman


----------



## Coliningus

Newlife2014 said:


> Watched all current episodes. I think he dress well for a blind lawyer.


Indeed. It's a great show, but I certainly wouldn't have expected to see any trad sensibilities in the wardrobe, but kept finding myself thinking "Just look at that collar roll!" Matt Murdock seems to be the only one sporting anything tradly


----------



## Doctor Damage

Great pics, guys.

Time for a 'funny'...


----------



## AldenPyle

Architect Pierre Koenig (at construction of Case Study House 21, 1958-1960)


----------



## AldenPyle

Case Study House 21









One more of Koenig later in life


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles Eames with IBM executives at _Mathematica_ installation, 1961


----------



## AldenPyle

The Power of Ten


----------



## Nickyn810

Great pic!


----------



## Nickyn810

Another great pic.


----------



## AldenPyle

Historian Christopher Lasch


----------



## AldenPyle

1964 America's Cup


----------



## niv

AldenPyle said:


> 1964 America's Cup


The forbidden boat shoes with socks. :eek2:


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL.
Well, now we know how the "real boaters" wear their beloved boat shoes...'with white crew socks,' by gawd! I suspect, when the shoes get wet, those socks prevent a lot of blisters? :icon_scratch:


----------



## CSG

eagle2250 said:


> ^^LOL.
> Well, now we know how the "real boaters" wear their beloved boat shoes...'with white crew socks,' by gawd! I suspect, when the shoes get wet, those socks prevent a lot of blisters? :icon_scratch:


Could those socks be Wigwams? I always wear socks with boat shoes when I wear long pants. But I wear boat shoes as casual loafers and I can think of few occasions where the sockless look works on men over 25.


----------



## AldenPyle

F. Scott Fitzgerald


----------



## Oldsport

AldenPyle, do you have the year of the F. Scott Fitzgerald photo?


----------



## AldenPyle

Triathlete said:


> AldenPyle, do you have the year of the F. Scott Fitzgerald photo?


1937 by Carl van Vechten
https://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/van/item/2004662882/


----------



## Fading Fast

Great shot of F. Scott (that tie is awesome) - who was an Ivy / Trad wannabe before it was "fashionable" to be one.


----------



## straw sandals

I wonder if that's a knitted rep tie, like the notoriously short ones awarded to Harvard athletes?

https://harvardmagazine.com/2011/03/mysteries

Fitzgerald was kicked off the freshman football team, but maybe it's from the Triangle Club?

In any case, it's a fantastic look.


----------



## SG_67

Fading Fast said:


> Great shot of F. Scott (that tie is awesome) - who was an Ivy / Trad wannabe before it was "fashionable" to be one.


Didn't he attend Princeton? Albeit never graduating.


----------



## Fading Fast

SG_67 said:


> Didn't he attend Princeton? Albeit never graduating.


Yes he did and that was part of his wannabe effort. Fitzgerald didn't come from "the right" family with a Ivy pedigree, so Princeton (had he graduated) would have been part of the creation. I think he somewhat echoed himself by having Gatsby attend but not graduate Oxford.

Also, not being from "the right kind of family" and being poor was why his future-wife's family didn't want her to marry him - which was also obliquely shadowed in Gatsby and Daisy's past where he wanted her but, as she told him, "girls like her didn't marry poor boys" or something close to that.

Fitzgerald and many of his characters were kids looking into the candy store from the outside - very early wannabes.


----------



## blue suede shoes

eagle2250 said:


> ^^LOL.
> Well, now we know how the "real boaters" wear their beloved boat shoes...'with white crew socks,' by gawd! I suspect, when the shoes get wet, those socks prevent a lot of blisters? :icon_scratch:


Yes, nice to see a photo of how boat shoes should be worn on a boat.


----------



## Fading Fast

blue suede shoes said:


> Yes, nice to see a photo of how boat shoes should be worn on a boat.


I thought so too. So much of our clothing icons have become for us Trad wearers just a part of our everyday, that we (or at least I) sometimes forget that, for example, tweeds were original foul-weather gear, Bean boots were originally hunting boots, khakis were desert military wear and wristwatches came of age so that officers could easily see the time without digging into their pockets.

It's almost surprising when I'm caught out in bad weather in a tightly woven tweed sport coat and you realize it provides nice protection and is no worse for the wear from having gone through it. Or, as also happened, I was in Maine, had an opportunity to go on a neat hike and only had my "Bean Boots," which in my mind are my "rain boots" as I left my new-technology hiking boots home, and found that the Bean ones did an admirable job.

Yup, kinda cool that our icons have a rich history.


----------



## rl1856

Fading Fast said:


> Yes he did and that was part of his wannabe effort. Fitzgerald didn't come from "the right" family with a Ivy pedigree, so Princeton (had he graduated) would have been part of the creation. I think he somewhat echoed himself by having Gatsby attend but not graduate Oxford.
> 
> snip
> 
> Fitzgerald and many of his characters were kids looking into the candy store from the outside - very early wannabes.


His people came from the middle west, not the fashionable east. Echoed by Daisy and Tom Buchanan living in "East Egg" while Gatsby lived in "West Egg" and across the harbor. He could see the lights from her dock; so close yet just out of his reach.

Fitzgerald came from a nice family, but his father was at best described as a near-do-well. A relative paid for his boarding school and Princeton education. Much of his feeling of detachment can be gleaned from reading "This Side of Paradise" and many of his short stories.


----------



## bd79cc

eagle2250 said:


> ^^LOL.
> Well, now we know how the "real boaters" wear their beloved boat shoes...'with white crew socks,' by gawd! I suspect, when the shoes get wet, those socks prevent a lot of blisters? :icon_scratch:


I wear ragg wool socks or Wigwam white wool crew socks with my boat shoes in the cooler months.


----------



## Corcovado

Rhodes Scholar and eventual entertainer Kris Kristofferson. Photo circa 1958.


----------



## AldenPyle

UCLA tennis coach J.D. Morgan (w/ Arthur Ashe)


----------



## AldenPyle

Adlai Stevenson, 1956


----------



## AldenPyle

Adlai Stevenson III (w. Chicago alderman)


----------



## AldenPyle

Stevenson with son, John Fell Stevenson


----------



## AldenPyle

Updike (w/ Christopher Lydon)


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Cords, pennies, tweed sack (I think) and OCBD - he's got it going on.


----------



## gamma68

I'm not the biggest fan of Vin, but the man does wear 3/2 sack suits.


----------



## alkydrinker

Other than the wide shoulders, this shot looks pretty Ralph Lauren-ish


----------



## Doctor Damage

Gene Hackman in "Heist" (one of my top 5 films ever, for what it's worth).

https://postimg.org/image/4rua642rv/


----------



## AldenPyle

John O'Hara


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ That suit of hers looks incredibly well made - both the fabric and tailoring look spectacular. Add in the handbag and shoes and you know that woman knew how to turn herself out.

Love the swelled edge on his sport coat.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ That suit of hers looks incredibly well made - both the fabric and tailoring look spectacular. Add in the handbag and shoes and you know that woman knew how to turn herself out.
> 
> Love the swelled edge on his sport coat.


More Ohara courtesy of Pennsylvania Historical Society


----------



## AldenPyle

Author/Publisher William Sloane


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Investigative reporter Donald L. Bartlett (with pleated partner James B. Steele)


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Archibald Cox


----------



## AldenPyle

H.R. Haldeman


----------



## AldenPyle

Astronaut Training 1970


----------



## wilhelm00

My Dad has both the jacket and the gun. Great picture. Thanks!


sbdivemaster said:


> *Bill Ruger, c. 1950, sporting a 3/2 sack in herringbone tweed.*
> (Why do I get the feeling that if he opened that sport coat, we'd see a Harris Tweed label?  )


----------



## AldenPyle

1961


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ heck of a collar roll


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's a surprisingly quiet look for a celebrity to wear.


----------



## Doctor Damage

good colour combo, nice penny loafers (click for larger)

https://postimg.org/image/4bsvc32cn/


----------



## AldenPyle

Nifty


Doctor Damage said:


> Here's a surprisingly quiet look for a celebrity to wear.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## bignilk




----------



## AldenPyle

Philip Roth


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ even the desolate urban lot looks trad.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fighting, staking, and burning vampire-zombies is trad, right? Maybe not.

Vincent Price sports a great trad wardrobe in the chilling classic "Last Man on Earth," which I strongly recommend watching. The movie is apparently in the public domain and you can find it on youtube (watch the original black-and-white, not the later colourized version).


----------



## Reuben

I think I prefer the Charlton Heston version:


----------



## AldenPyle

I know the feeling.


----------



## Doctor Damage

The man's last name is Lott, his daughter (now grown up) is an actress in London. That's all I know.


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> The man's last name is Lott, his daughter (now grown up) is an actress in London. That's all I know.


^ Thats pretty great


----------



## AldenPyle

Robert Vaughn RIP


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Sad news, for sure. May he rest in peace.


----------



## Sam H

Someone posted this in a Reddit thread of Joe Biden memes.










Also, this one which looks like the sort of California trad Hollister attempts to hollowly imitate


----------



## L-feld

Reuben said:


> I think I prefer the Charlton Heston version:


Oh man, I love 70's sci-fi. Omega Man is a classic.

I might need to get a safari jacket next spring.










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Doctor Damage

Sam H said:


> Someone posted this in a Reddit thread of Joe Biden memes.


Thanks for posting. I didn't realize he was young once! There's a man who has overcome a lot of personal tragedies and is still able to smile; I don't think I would be able to.


----------



## Doctor Damage

L-feld said:


> Oh man, I love 70's sci-fi. Omega Man is a classic.
> 
> I might need to get a safari jacket next spring.


I picked up a DVD of that movie recently, but still haven't watched it. Although a lot of 70s movies were pretty campy, most had some clever storylines, and a few movies were really gritty and tough (I strongly recommend "The Outfit", "Charley Varrick").

I have several safari jackets and as soon as I can replace the friction belt buckles with proper pronged buckles then I'll be able to wear them (well, next spring at least!). There's a company called Tag Safari which makes some classic looking ones which don't look 70s - they're cheap, so if you don't like it you aren't out much money - LINK. In terms of vintage, Banana Republic made some really classic models which are readily available used on e-Bay, including in Long sizes. Filson too, although with Filson sizing varied wildly and tags aren't always reliable so you need to be careful of measurements.


----------



## clark_kent

James Cain


----------



## rmpmcdermott

America's greatest playwright and one of the world's literary giants wearing a couple of 3/2 sack jackets.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Yet neither his impressive literary career nor his outstanding taste in Ivy sport coats was his greatest life achievement.


----------



## AldenPyle

Roy E. Disney


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Not as classic as many of the pictures here, but I thought Aaron Sorkin looked particularly Ivy in this photo.


----------



## AldenPyle

Executive traveller, 1950s


----------



## Ensiferous




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## L-feld

Dare I post Herr Drumpf?










Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


----------



## Corcovado

I watched the commendable documentary _Drunk Stoned Brilliant Dead: The Story of the National Lampoon _today and there was much Ivy League style to be admired. Also, many shots that nmight answer the question "What does a trad office look like?" (Or at least a trad home study.)








John Landis









National Lampoon cofounder Henry Beard

P.J. O'Rourke


----------



## Robertson

https://www.wsj.com/articles/warren...y-im-getting-down-to-salvage-value-1484139202

Warren Buffett


----------



## AldenPyle

1966


----------



## Doctor Damage

Robertson said:


> https://www.wsj.com/articles/warren...y-im-getting-down-to-salvage-value-1484139202
> 
> Warren Buffett


I didn't realize he was ever young!


----------



## Doctor Damage

trad kids:

https://postimg.org/image/eqr06aopt/

trad shoes/office/etc:

https://postimg.org/image/693pdcwpb/ https://postimg.org/image/4yut7dtgj/


----------



## SG_67

Eero Saarinen


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> I didn't realize he was ever young!


That sort of surprised me too. I just assumed he was born in his seventies and spent the following seven decades on earth aging only ten years.


----------



## AldenPyle

Investors Business Daily, 1968


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Doctor Damage

^ one of my favourite actors, great photos!


----------



## AldenPyle

Elia Kazan


----------



## AldenPyle

Witnessing the arrest of the San Francisco Mime Troupe on obscenity charges, Golden Gate park 1965


----------



## AldenPyle

Gable 1957


----------



## AldenPyle

John Hersey








1958








1988

(Note the Addams in his wife's string of names. She was the original model for Morticia).


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> John Hersey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1958
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1988
> 
> (Note the Addams in his wife's string of names. She was the original model for Morticia).


So much for the idea that that generation didn't get divorced. He's 35, she looks younger and it's his 2nd marriage and her 3rd!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Over the period of a lifetime I've learned it prudent not to cast judgements of the apparent misdirection(s) showcased in lives of others', but rather in this instance to simply assume the journalist writing the social column incorporating the announcement of John Hershey and Barbara Kaufman's marriage, was a cynic! LOL.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> So much for the idea that that generation didn't get divorced. He's 35, she looks younger and it's his 2nd marriage and her 3rd!


Divorce wise, 1945 was almost like 1978. I think both Hersey's first marriage and her marriage to Charles Addams were both war-time marriages.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm cool with it all. People get married, people get divorced, people get remarried and on and on. I have no real opinion other than I'd, personally, be worn out if I had that many marriages at that young an age - but that's just me. If it works for someone else, I have no complaints. 

My point was not to disparage either of them - I have no idea what happened in their pasts to judge them in anyway - but to modestly chuckle at the general perception that divorce was rare before the late '60s social and cultural changes.

Also, I like his sport coat in the last shot - besides the pattern, which I love, it drapes beautifully.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> I'm cool with it all. People get married, people get divorced, people get remarried and on and on. I have no real opinion other than I'd, personally, be worn out if I had that many marriages at that young an age - but that's just me. If it works for someone else, I have no complaints.
> 
> My point was not to disparage either of them - I have no idea what happened in their pasts to judge them in anyway - but to modestly chuckle at the general perception that divorce was rare before the late '60s social and cultural changes.
> 
> Also, I like his sport coat in the last shot - besides the pattern, which I love, it drapes beautifully.


I find this is one of the rewarding things about trawling through these old pictures. You get a richer picture of how life was actually lived when you go to primary sources than you might get from heavily filtered nostalgia.


----------



## AldenPyle

Kingston Trio with guitar manufacturing scion C.F. Martin III at a concert at Princeton


----------



## AldenPyle

Dick Gregory visits Ohio University in 1968


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Dhaller

Dick Gregory is fairly trad even today.


----------



## AldenPyle

Rhode Island gubernatorial candidate William H. Vanderbilt


----------



## Doctor Damage

In honour of today's meetings in DC, here's a former Canadian prime minister in a nice surcingle belt with his son, now prime minister.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> My point was not to disparage either of them - I have no idea what happened in their pasts to judge them in anyway - but to modestly chuckle at the general perception that divorce was rare before the late '60s social and cultural changes.


Seconded.


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Rhode Island gubernatorial candidate William H. Vanderbilt


Can't get much more original trad than his outfit - looks awesome. And you could cross post the same picture in the "Trad Girlfriend" thread.

Also, while he's got the usual messed-up-a-bit teeth of the era, somebody paid up to make sure her teeth are spot on perfect, which was not common then.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Hollywood producer Cy Howard, 1961


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I assume so as to not get ink on his writing hand's sport coat's cuff, he seems to be utilizing the much-debated sleeve buttons for good use. And looks pretty cool doing so. Also, love the swelled edges on the sport coat.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Nat Hentoff (click for larger pics)

https://postimg.org/image/6rlbivtqh/ https://postimg.org/image/57yjj88tr/ https://postimg.org/image/jjxxqfur9/


----------



## AldenPyle

1965


----------



## Doctor Damage

excellent OCBD (click for larger)

https://postimg.org/image/nm0m6n1d1/


----------



## AldenPyle

Political scientist Walter Berns


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Based on the phone, looks like the late '70s / '80s, but he's still rockin' the swelled-edge, herringbone tweed, 2/3, sack sport coat, OCBD, rep tie and chinos or gaberdines (hard to tell). Good for him.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Based on the phone, looks like the late '70s / '80s, but he's still rockin' the swelled-edge, herringbone tweed, 2/3, sack sport coat, OCBD, rep tie and chinos or gaberdines (hard to tell). Good for him.


2004, it turns out. (Contemporaneous with this forum!)


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> 2004, it turns out. (Contemporaneous with this forum!)


Wow and cool. Good for him - the clothes are spot on. Might be time to upgrade the phone technology though.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> Might be time to upgrade the phone technology though.


If it still works...?


----------



## AldenPyle

Daniel Ellsberg


----------



## Doctor Damage

Tom Nichols with a decent collar roll, although it looks like a non-iron shirt. In his defence he's on a book tour right now, so non-iron makes sense.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ So an honest question. Yes, Ralph is a trad-inspired - uber-trad-inspried - dresser, but would anyone back in the '30s - '60s have worn grey flannels with same-grey-colored turtle neck, a DB navy blazer and tobacco suede shoes or ankle boots (maybe). 

If I had to guess, the best chance of seeing that would have been in the 1930s as those Apparel Arts illustrations argue that a lot of stylish variations were going on. I could see Grant or Gable wearing this in '30s Hollywood. 

While all the individual elements of the outfit were seen in the '50s and '60s, somehow Ralph's exact combination seems not quite right to those periods. 

Thoughts? I really am asking, not opining, as I know many here have a deeper knowledge of the history of all this.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Ralph has always done his own thing, but he's done it better than they did in the old days. Of course, Ralph doesn't wear all the bling bling Huge Pony stuff that he sells to the punters. If you see old vintage clothing from the Golden Age you'll realize that aside from the DofW most of it was in weird colours, patterns, etc which would horrify modern tastes. Ralph has been successful by taking the spirit and fit and panache of the Golden Age and re-envisioning it in modern colours, patterns, etc.


----------



## AldenPyle

Carbondale 1960


----------



## AldenPyle

Stanley Kubrick


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ So an honest question. Yes, Ralph is a trad-inspired - uber-trad-inspried - dresser, but would anyone back in the '30s - '60s have worn grey flannels with same-grey-colored turtle neck, a DB navy blazer and tobacco suede shoes or ankle boots (maybe).
> 
> If I had to guess, the best chance of seeing that would have been in the 1930s as those Apparel Arts illustrations argue that a lot of stylish variations were going on. I could see Grant or Gable wearing this in '30s Hollywood.
> 
> While all the individual elements of the outfit were seen in the '50s and '60s, somehow Ralph's exact combination seems not quite right to those periods.
> 
> Thoughts? I really am asking, not opining, as I know many here have a deeper knowledge of the history of all this.


That seems like a very low button stance for a DB. Almost like a SB with extra buttons. Not a DB expert though.

To me that look says Matt Helm, so I might put it late 60s.


----------



## AldenPyle

Daniel J. Boorstin


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Daniel J. Boorstin


Learned a lot from his books, good to see he was a trad dresser.


----------



## AldenPyle

Andre Previn


----------



## Doctor Damage

AldenPyle said:


> To me that look says Matt Helm, so I might put it late 60s.


The photo was taken in the last decade, as far as I can tell (link). I'm still trying to find the exact date. The blazer is one of three standard d-b blazer variations. I'm afraid the trad crew has become in a bubble when in comes to anything that's not dogmatic trad.


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> The photo was taken in the last decade, as far as I can tell (link). I'm still trying to find the exact date. The blazer is one of three standard d-b blazer variations. I'm afraid the trad crew has become in a bubble when in comes to anything that's not dogmatic trad.


 I understand the picture is of recent vintage. I just meant, double breasted, turtleneck and ankle boots seems like a call back to the late 60's. I'll take your word about the DB, I am not an expert.

Also, not being dogmatic. Nothing about Ralph's style (or Matt Helm's for that matter) seems wrong to me. 
I


----------



## AldenPyle

Albert Murray


----------



## Reuben

Doctor Damage said:


> The photo was taken in the last decade, as far as I can tell (link). I'm still trying to find the exact date. The blazer is one of three standard d-b blazer variations. I'm afraid the trad crew has become in a bubble when in comes to anything that's not dogmatic trad.


You mean there's a bit of stylistic rigidity in the thread for pictures of American men wearing trad clothing on the sub-forum devoted to discussing trad style? Who knew.


----------



## Ensiferous

My focus is also on the suits of Arthur C. Clarke (not an American, but he appears trad here nonetheless) and George Mueller (NASA). Those heyday suits made for a very resolute uniform.



AldenPyle said:


> Stanley Kubrick


----------



## AldenPyle

Walker Percy








w / Charles Bell, Ellen Douglas and Shelby Foote


----------



## AldenPyle

Lou Reed


----------



## AldenPyle

James Salter


----------



## Fading Fast

I was watching the movie "The VIPs" yesterday and saw Louis Jourdan (definitely not American) wearing what I think is a wonderful herringbone tweed sack.

It has almost no, or no, padding in the shoulder, is 3/2, not darted, with a center vent, and fits in a classic sack silhouette.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find great stills, but these show it a bit. Beyond being a sack, the herringbone is a bit bolder which is perfect with the muted grey as it announces itself without yelling.


----------



## Doctor Damage

click for larger

https://postimg.org/image/ufhp875o5/


----------



## Bermuda

can somebody post some trad golf pics of Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus?


----------



## jpeirpont

AldenPyle said:


> Walker Percy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> w / Charles Bell, Ellen Douglas and Shelby Foote


Quite nice!


----------



## AldenPyle

Bermuda said:


> can somebody post some trad golf pics of Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus?


----------



## AldenPyle

Thinking of spring
Arthur Penn & Fred Coe


----------



## Congresspark

Belated thanks for the photos of James Salter and Nat Hentoff, two of the best.


----------



## RedOctober

Doctor Damage said:


> click for larger
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/ufhp875o5/


"An upper class guy who happily waited out his pre-speech lag time with a nobody reporter in a raucous bar jammed with truck drivers and off-duty cops who only seemed to notice Buckley because of that suit - the one that screamed, "Do you know how wealthy a man has to be to dress this badly?""


----------



## Doctor Damage

RedOctober said:


> An upper class guy who happily waited out his pre-speech lag time with a nobody reporter in a raucous bar jammed with truck drivers and off-duty cops who only seemed to notice Buckley because of that suit - the one that screamed, "Do you know how wealthy a man has to be to dress this badly?""


That's a point that P.J. O'Rourke has made in print, only half-jokingly, in his early book _Modern Manners_. I recommend it.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

George Maharis


----------



## sbw21

John Rawls









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


----------



## sbw21

Salinger









Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


----------



## eagle2250

^^
J. D. Salinger; incredible talent, but wasted genius.


----------



## AldenPyle

sbw21 said:


> John Rawls


 Good idea. 
Richard Rorty


----------



## AldenPyle

Daniel Dennett


----------



## AldenPyle

Alan J. Pakula (w/ Harper Lee)


----------



## Proclus

I've heard rumors that Dennett sometimes shows up to conferences in a cloak.



AldenPyle said:


> Daniel Dennett


----------



## AldenPyle

Proclus said:


> I've heard rumors that Dennett sometimes shows up to conferences in a cloak.


Undarted cloak one would hope.


----------



## AldenPyle

Scott Carpenter


----------



## AldenPyle

Cheever


----------



## AldenPyle

NY Times reporter Jeffrey Schmalz


----------



## sbw21

Alan Simpson. President of Vassar.

NYT Obit:
Alan Simpson, 85, President Of Vassar in Transition, Dies https://www.nytimes.com/1998/05/08/...5-president-of-vassar-in-transition-dies.html

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


----------



## Doctor Damage

Not a full traditional look on the fellow on the right, but some nice details.


----------



## Corcovado

UNC Chapel Hill students celebrating men's basketball NCAA championship, 1957.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Looking at all the suits being worn by that 1957 crowd, I am struck by the contrast when compared with how celebrants of the UNC NCAA Championship, 2017, were dressed. The UNC student body/fan base seems to have fully devolved from Trad to AmJack! They may not dress well these days, but they sure can play a hell-of-a-game of 'round ball!'


----------



## Doctor Damage

Unexpected use of white polo shirt here.


----------



## AldenPyle

Glenn O'Brien, RIP


----------



## sbw21

AldenPyle said:


> Glenn O'Brien, RIP


I just heard. I remember him from the first time I started reading the style section of GQ.


----------



## wacolo

AldenPyle said:


>


Dick Van **** talks about Cary Grant and suits......

_*Edit - The link is screwing up. The actual clip starts at 1:12:54.*_


----------



## AldenPyle

wacolo said:


> Dick Van **** talks about Cary Grant and suits......]


 Nice DvD in Bye Bye Birdie


----------



## Corcovado

Transylvania College (now Transylvania University) orientation, 1954, Lexington, KY.


----------



## gamma68

^ All freshmen, as indicated by their dink caps.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ The young ladies white socks, pennies or saddles and rolled up jeans are fantastic.


----------



## Proclus

Two of my grandparents graduated from the University of Kentucky in 1957. It would not be unreasonable to think that they knew those kids in the picture (the two universities are only a handful of blocks apart).

Here's my grandfather, a Kentucky Trad if ever there was one:



You might think that's a pose at a photography studio, but it's actually a candid shot at his office in the bank. I have a vivid memory as a young child getting mints out of that dish on the table.

I think this one's at Keeneland, but I don't recognize the parking lot in the background.


----------



## Corcovado

Hello there fellow Kentuckian. My best guess is that the latter picture is from Churchill Downs rather than Keeneland.

From Google street view:


----------



## Proclus

I'm sure that's right. I didn't recognize the concrete bleachers either. I've been to Keeneland many times, but never Churchill downs.


----------



## AldenPyle

James Merrill


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles van Doren


----------



## AldenPyle

Conrad Marca-Relli


----------



## AldenPyle

Buck Henry (with Jack Warden and Warren Beatty)


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Conrad Marca-Relli


Love the bold herringbone suit and pin-collar shirt.


----------



## AldenPyle

Neil Simon (w/ Mike Nichols)


----------



## Doctor Damage

Gary Cooper.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Gary Cooper (wearing penny loafers) with his wife, who was a champion skeet shooter (wearing Belgian Shoes).

https://postimg.org/image/ggh55bact/


----------



## Corcovado

Adlai Stevenson

*Immortal Sole: Adlai Stevenson And The Boston Cracked Shoe*
https://www.ivy-style.com/adlai-stevenson-and-the-boston-cracked-shoe.html

The first time this stubborn Yankee frugality came to the attention of the public was during the 1952 presidential campaign. _LIFE Magazine_ ran a picture of Adlai Stevenson with his feet propped on a chair, and there was a large hole in one of Stevenson's shoes. The press was dumfounded at what they considered to be a huge faux pas.What they didn't realize was that Adlai Ewing Stevenson II was raised in wealthy family, came from a long line of successful politicians, graduated from Princeton, and was the member of a patrician set of men who all looked on this in a much different light than people that didn't travel in their set.

As far as I know, the term "Boston Cracked Shoe" in "Bonfire of the Vanities" by Tom Wolfe. My guess is that the term was only meaningful in certain East Coast circles. I ran into it in Boston and New York, but never in any other part of the country.

Oh, and if you're going to try this at home, bear in mind that down-at-heel shoes are patrician on Old Money types, but merely bohemian on the middle class. - BILL STEPHENSON


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> Gary Cooper (wearing penny loafers) with his wife, who was a champion skeet shooter (wearing Belgian Shoes).
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/ggh55bact/


 Even the (I think) cat boat is trad. Gotta love a wife who is a champion skeet shooter. *Save**Save*​


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Even the (I think) cat boat is trad. Gotta love a wife who is a champion skeet shooter. *Save**Save*​


Reminds me of this of William Holden and Brenda Marshall


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ fantastic


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ fantastic


 Those mid-century Life photographers was legit artists. This series were taken by Allan Grant on a vacation the Holdens took in Canada in 1949


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Those mid-century Life photographers was legit artists. This series were taken by Allan Grant on a vacation the Holdens took in Canada in 1949


Could not agree more and, at the time, "Life" had a well-respected reputation it earned and deserved.


----------



## AldenPyle

Irwin Shaw


----------



## AldenPyle

AC Spectorsky and Hugh Hefner


----------



## SG_67

It's easy to forget that Hef actually wore clothes at one time in his life rather than that damn bath robe.


----------



## Fading Fast

SG_67 said:


> It's easy to forget that Hef actually wore clothes at one time in his life rather than that damn bath robe.


Even harder still, there was a time he was a serious man who was forward thinking and helped break America out of its '50s surface-layer straight jacket.

That said, I watched one episode of the new Hef bio via Amazon and while the clothes and period details are interesting (but not that well done) and the archival footage is neat - the show, what's the word, stinks. My review from another site (no matter what I did, I couldn't get it "unbolded" when I copied it here - sorry:

Watched the first episode of *"American Playboy: The Huge Hefner Story"

What a confused mess starting with the almost mocking opening note that this is Hefner's story as he remembers it - said almost tongue in cheek. Hence, you know you're watching a lot of fiction woven into something that approaches a very-favorable-to-Hefner biographical story.

But just as messy is the style that swings between documentary with archival footage, later-in-time interview clips and reenactments that feel very false next to the archival footage. And even the tone is off: Done in what I assume is supposed to be the breezy tone of light news reporting back in the '50s, it just contributes to a not-serious feel that leaves you wondering what exactly you're watching - a fictionalized version of Hefner's life (my guess) or something a bit more accurate (doubt it).

Even the '50s / '60s period details, sets, clothes, etc., are only okay and not up to the standards of shows like "Mad Men," "Call the Midwife" or any decent documentary. And, as always, there's the just-a-bit creepiness of Hefner. Maybe early on, maybe even more than maybe, he was a activist and visionary who helped break down a surface conformity that belied what people really did and wanted to do. But as he morphed into a "creepy uncle" and then "lecherous grandfather," his entire legacy became tainted.

For me, since I already know his / the magazine's basic story, if I'm not getting a reasonably accurate retelling with new information, then I'm not that interested. And, if I'm getting a made-up-by-Hefner hagiography, then I have better ways to spend my time. Might try one more episode, but doubt it.*


----------



## Shaver

I haven't seen the programme, and likely won't given that I trust the word of FF, but the 50 years of Playboy coffee table book published a few years back (by 'few' I mean 20) gives a seemingly accurate account of the wholesome values which informed its original publication. I had a subscription for many years but would be ashamed to be caught looking at a copy nowadays- the rot set in during the late eighties and completely in possession by the nineties, cocaine and brazilians, the magazine never recovered.

Another thread entirely but breast 'augmentation' is a travesty. Only the most lacking of discernment could be appreciative of this appaling approximation of the female figure.
.

.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Doctor Damage said:


> Gary Cooper (wearing penny loafers) with his wife, who was a champion skeet shooter (wearing Belgian Shoes).
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/ggh55bact/


I'd have thought more of his wife is she shot trap rather than skeet!


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Even harder still, there was a time he was a serious man who was forward thinking and helped break America out of its '50s surface-layer straight jacket.
> 
> That said, I watched one episode of the new Hef bio via Amazon and while the clothes and period details are interesting (but not that well done) and the archival footage is neat - the show, what's the word, stinks. My review from another site (no matter what I did, I couldn't get it "unbolded" when I copied it here - sorry:
> 
> Watched the first episode of *"American Playboy: The Huge Hefner Story"
> 
> What a confused mess starting with the almost mocking opening note that this is Hefner's story as he remembers it - said almost tongue in cheek. Hence, you know you're watching a lot of fiction woven into something that approaches a very-favorable-to-Hefner biographical story.
> 
> But just as messy is the style that swings between documentary with archival footage, later-in-time interview clips and reenactments that feel very false next to the archival footage. And even the tone is off: Done in what I assume is supposed to be the breezy tone of light news reporting back in the '50s, it just contributes to a not-serious feel that leaves you wondering what exactly you're watching - a fictionalized version of Hefner's life (my guess) or something a bit more accurate (doubt it).
> 
> Even the '50s / '60s period details, sets, clothes, etc., are only okay and not up to the standards of shows like "Mad Men," "Call the Midwife" or any decent documentary. And, as always, there's the just-a-bit creepiness of Hefner. Maybe early on, maybe even more than maybe, he was a activist and visionary who helped break down a surface conformity that belied what people really did and wanted to do. But as he morphed into a "creepy uncle" and then "lecherous grandfather," his entire legacy became tainted.
> 
> For me, since I already know his / the magazine's basic story, if I'm not getting a reasonably accurate retelling with new information, then I'm not that interested. And, if I'm getting a made-up-by-Hefner hagiography, then I have better ways to spend my time. Might try one more episode, but doubt it.*


Yeah, no coincidence, I was watching the show too. The second episode focuses on his decision to become the public persona of the Playboy brand, tailoring his image (and clothes) and, ultimately his life to match the ideals of the magazine. So there is some interest in that (of course, at a meta level, the show itself is one last effort to construct that image, kind of a magician pretending to show the trick).

I agree with a lot of what you said, and I think your especially right about the half heartedness of the recreation of the era, though, I think I liked the show a little bit more than you. It struck me as not so much hagiography, as the honest if unreliable memories of a fairly self-satisfied and not very reflective man (including him remembering himself as taller and better looking than he actually was). He has fond memories of the crew of guys that he recruited to start the magazine, and I enjoyed that retelling of those friendships. His shortcomings as a husband and father are depicted, but its obvious that they don't weigh all that heavily on him, even though he knows they should. All in all, it was no doubt a lot of fun to be Hugh Hefner and I don't really mind taking those recollections out for a spin, though I am sure I will stop watching when we get to the post-Barbi Benton era.


----------



## Doctor Damage

some dude at the Kentucky Derby (click for larger pic)

https://postimg.org/image/ykii6oxwv/


----------



## Doctor Damage

SG_67 said:


> It's easy to forget that Hef actually wore clothes at one time in his life rather than that damn bath robe.


In the early days of the magazine he was often photographed wearing thick white socks and penny loafers.


----------



## jimw

Hef looks a bit like Doug Neidermeyer from Animal House: ".... a pledge pin, on your uniform!!!"








AC Spectorsky and Hugh Hefner[/QUOTE]


----------



## AldenPyle

This must have been posted, but whatever


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ based on the hat, car and his age - that looks like it's a still from "Sabrina -" a great movie for '50s era clothing eye candy.


----------



## Corcovado

In the photo Hugh Hefner looks like he would have made a good Jack the Ripper or perhaps Count Dracula.


----------



## AldenPyle

Warren Beatty


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles Braswell in "The Only Game in Town,"


----------



## Corcovado

LIFE magazine photos. Some model visiting Dartmouth. I don't recognize her.


----------



## gamma68

^ The model is Playboy playmate Janet Pilgrim, from the Oct. 1956 issue.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> ^ The model is Playboy playmate Janet Pilgrim, from the Oct. 1956 issue.


As my girlfriend would say to me, "you seemed to know that information a bit too easily."


----------



## SG_67

gamma68 said:


> ^ The model is Playboy playmate Janet Pilgrim, from the Oct. 1956 issue.


If Wikipedia is to be believed, she passed away just a week ago.


----------



## Corcovado

Historian/author Richard Rhodes


----------



## Corcovado

Mathematician, hedge fund manager, and philanthropist James Simons.


----------



## AldenPyle

NASA Administrator John C. Houbolt


----------



## AldenPyle

George Plimpton


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> NASA Administrator John C. Houbolt


Interesting edge on the jackets lapel. Not quite a swelled edge (the sticking seems too close to the edge) but also not the normal stitching without any "swell" that most lapels have. I like it and it feels very trad - anyone have any thoughts on this?


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> Interesting edge on the jackets lapel. Not quite a swelled edge (the sticking seems too close to the edge) but also not the normal stitching without any "swell" that most lapels have. I like it and it feels very trad - anyone have any thoughts on this?


A swelled edge seems a bit too informal for a suit. Houbolt may have been cultivating a bit of an professorial image.


----------



## AldenPyle

Another schoolboy look


----------



## Charles Dana

AldenPyle said:


> Another schoolboy look


Coincidentally, it was exactly 44 years ago today--May 17, 1973--that the Senate Watergate hearings began. (John Dean's testimony occurred in June of that year.)

Hmmm....On second thought, perhaps this is not a coincidence; I'll bet Alden Pyle knew exactly what he was doing in posting that photo on this date.

I watched live coverage of Dean's testimony in June 1973. I noticed the top buttonhole on the lapel of his tan suit and thought, "What a funny place to put a buttonhole. That looks strange. Like an incongruous scar on the lapel. What's it there for?" I was unfamiliar with the 3-roll-2 back then; at least, with a 3-2 roll on a lapel that didn't actually have a gentle roll, as was the case with Dean's poplin suit.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> ...I watched live coverage of Dean's testimony in June 1973. I noticed the top buttonhole on the lapel of his tan suit and thought, "What a funny place to put a buttonhole. That looks strange. Like an incongruous scar on the lapel. What's it there for?" I was unfamiliar with the 3-roll-2 back then; at least, with a 3-2 roll on a lapel that didn't actually have a gentle roll, as was the case with Dean's poplin suit.


Probably just faulty (aggressive) pressing at the dry cleaners. I've been victim to that many times.


----------



## HerrDavid

Robert Mueller seems to know his way around a collar roll and a white OCBD.


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles Dana said:


> Coincidentally, it was exactly 44 years ago today--May 17, 1973--that the Senate Watergate hearings began. (John Dean's testimony occurred in June of that year.)
> 
> Hmmm....On second thought, perhaps this is not a coincidence; I'll bet Alden Pyle knew exactly what he was doing in posting that photo on this date.
> 
> I watched live coverage of Dean's testimony in June 1973. I noticed the top buttonhole on the lapel of his tan suit and thought, "What a funny place to put a buttonhole. That looks strange. Like an incongruous scar on the lapel. What's it there for?" I was unfamiliar with the 3-roll-2 back then; at least, with a 3-2 roll on a lapel that didn't actually have a gentle roll, as was the case with Dean's poplin suit.


I'm not sure you are really going to get a good roll in a poplin suit.

PS, I did not pay careful attention to the anniversary. There does seem to be a bit of Watergate nostalgia in the air, for whatever reason, so there seems to be a few good pictures available

Watergate prosecutor Archibald Cox


----------



## AldenPyle

Edward Cox (w/ Tricia Nixon)


----------



## AldenPyle

William Ruckelshaus


----------



## AldenPyle

Harold Ramis


----------



## Fading Fast

Woody Allen in "Hollywood Ending"



He is definitely a baggy clothes, pleated pants guy, but in most of his movies, he tilts very trad.

And Tea Leoni looks mighty fine in her trad-ish attire.


----------



## AldenPyle

Kenneth Keating


----------



## AldenPyle

Ben Bradlee


----------



## AldenPyle

Howard Baker


----------



## Doctor Damage

^^ The Ben Bradlee pics are fun because I just read an article about JFK's last birthday party at which he made a pass at Bradlee's then-wife. Here she is on another occasion with JFK (in loafers).

https://postimg.org/image/wnbmk9xid/


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Whatever your politics, JFK is not the guy I'd want hanging out alone with my wife. He had great sartorial style though.


----------



## CMDC

Doctor Damage said:


> ^^ The Ben Bradlee pics are fun because I just read an article about JFK's last birthday party at which he made a pass at Bradlee's then-wife. Here she is on another occasion with JFK (in loafers).
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/wnbmk9xid/


Yeah, I read that too. Lots of good pix in the article...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Sergio Bendixen (who just died). Note half-buttoned OCBD collar.

https://postimg.org/image/70rhi95dz/


----------



## Doctor Damage

I have no idea who this man is, or the date of the photo, since no info was provided on the website. However, it looks like 70s or early 80s. Note the old camp moccs!

https://postimg.org/image/3k72i0qcn/


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ the shoes are very cool (just the right amount of wear and tear), the raincoat classic but, as you note, it looks '70s / early '80s owing to the Mike Brady hairdo and porn-star mustache. 

That said, I bet one of our car-knowledgable members could date the fuzzy car in the background which would at least set a floor under how old the shot it.


----------



## gamma68

Doctor Damage said:


> I have no idea who this man is, or the date of the photo, since no info was provided on the website. However, it looks like 70s or early 80s. Note the old camp moccs!
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/3k72i0qcn/


My first thought was Donald Sutherland, but I don't think it's him.


----------



## Odradek

There was thread here about Roger Stone a few weeks back, which somehow got "disappeared".

Just stumbled across this pic of him in seersucker.










He appears to now have his own fashion blog.
https://stoneonstyle.com


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ the shoes are very cool (just the right amount of wear and tear), the raincoat classic but, as you note, it looks '70s / early '80s owing to the Mike Brady hairdo and porn-star mustache.
> 
> That said, I bet one of our car-knowledgable members could date the fuzzy car in the background which would at least set a floor under how old the shot it.


The car is fuzzy, perhaps a friend will be able to figure it out. Definitely the UK or Eurokrustyland, probably a Peugeot. Note how his left shoe has the lace missing! Possibly Porsche sunglasses.


----------



## Doctor Damage

gamma68 said:


> My first thought was Donald Sutherland, but I don't think it's him.


My first thought was Vonnegut.


----------



## Odradek

Doctor Damage said:


> The car is fuzzy, perhaps a friend will be able to figure it out. Definitely the UK or Eurokrustyland, probably a Peugeot. Note how his left shoe has the lace missing! Possibly Porsche sunglasses.


Definitely UK.
And I'd say a lot more recent than the 80's, despite the hair.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Kurt Vonnegut in Sperry boat shoes and OCBD (click for larger).

https://postimg.org/image/4meq1n399/ https://postimg.org/image/fp95qk8cl/


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Corcovado

Robert Mueller


----------



## AldenPyle

^Nice roll
Frank DeFord at Princeton in the 50's

Overall, one of the best dressed sports reporters (though never very Trad). RIP..


----------



## AldenPyle

John Severson, founder, Surfer Magazine


----------



## Doctor Damage

I hope I didn't post this one already... 1980s preppy to the max.

https://postimg.org/image/9urvnq8tx/


----------



## AldenPyle

Ralph Ellison


----------



## Atlanta Fop

Doctor Damage said:


> some dude at the Kentucky Derby (click for larger pic)
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/ykii6oxwv/


Personally, I love everything about this outfit; thanks for posting. Now if I could only find patch madras trousers in my (big-and-tall) size - nevermind that Mrs. Fop says they make me look even bigger...


----------



## Atlanta Fop

AldenPyle said:


>


GREAT photos; thanks for sharing.


----------



## Corcovado

*Robinson Jeffers*





































Honestly I don't know if this is considered trad, not trad, or some sort of pre-war proto-trad. Or maybe you could say that it was the California outdoorsy look of its day. Whatever. Jeffers seems to have favored a popover shirt with an unusually large collar as seen above. It has a sort of nautical look IMO. His overall style has a British flavor to my eye, especially the WW1 style leather gaiters.


----------



## AldenPyle

Wallace Stegner


----------



## AldenPyle

H.R. Haldeman


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Great pics everyone. I've lately become obsessed with single-breasted raincoats, so seeing that pic of Haldeman is very welcome.

Here's a pic of Matthau in "The Laughing Policeman". It's an excellent, excellent film and I strongly recommend it. It was one of Matthau's three action movies, all of which are worth watching; the other two were "Charley Varrick" and "The Taking Of Pelham 123" and all are gritty 1970s films.

https://postimg.org/image/e1cht4hxj/


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Great pics everyone. I've lately become obsessed with single-breasted raincoats, so seeing that pic of Haldeman is very welcome....


Over the course of my sartorial "career," I've done a full one-eighty, from loving double-breasted trench coats with all their do-dads and not caring for the simple single breasted one to now loving the plain single breasted raincoat and thinking the DB too fussy (but still kinda liking it for its sartorial history).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> Over the course of my sartorial "career," I've done a full one-eighty, from loving double-breasted trench coats with all their do-dads and not caring for the simple single breasted one to now loving the plain single breasted raincoat and thinking the DB too fussy (but still kinda liking it for its sartorial history).


ha ha, yeah that's been exactly my 'journey' too, I'm even trying to justify dropping used-car money on a new Aquascutum Filey but will probably settle for an old London Fog and a vintage Burberry... whatever happens, my five d-b trenches will always be my first loves


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> ha ha, yeah that's been exactly my 'journey' too, I'm even trying to justify dropping used-car money on a new Aquascutum Filey but will probably settle for an old London Fog and a vintage Burberry... whatever happens, my five d-b trenches will always be my first loves


Be glad it's only a raincoat, it's much cheaper than swapping out of a first wife.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Tom Ewell in "the Seven Year Itch", a very entertaining film. Nice penny loafers.

https://postimg.org/image/ghzo1elzn/


----------



## AldenPyle

^Seems like that color suit has disappeared.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Goldwater aide Vic Gold, RIP


----------



## AldenPyle

UGA student, Hamilton Holmes, 1961


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Chukkas!!! And love those wood floors.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Luciano Barbera in an American-inspired outfit.

https://postimg.org/image/lbyjgwr01/


----------



## AldenPyle

Justin Thomas


----------



## SG_67

Watching ESPN's 30 for 30 about the Lakers/Celtics rivalry, I thought I would recognize Red Auerbach:


----------



## Corcovado

*Saturday Night Live set designer Eugene Lee. See the very interesting interview at the link below:

Meet the guy who's been designing sets for SNL since 1975*


----------



## WillBarrett

AldenPyle said:


> Justin Thomas


Roll Tide.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

Corcovado said:


> *Saturday Night Live set designer Eugene Lee. See the very interesting interview at the link below:
> 
> Meet the guy who's been designing sets for SNL since 1975*


The heck with his clothes (which do look trad nice), I want the roll-top desk or, pretty much, any of that furniture.


----------



## AldenPyle

Bill Bixby


----------



## AldenPyle

Awesome


----------



## xcubbies

AldenPyle said:


>


Looks like Ehrlichman has something to hide in his jacket.


----------



## AldenPyle

Melvyn Douglas, 1959


----------



## Sam H

I don't want to derail the thread but you can see an entire collection of these photographs from the same photographer who took pictures of 1980 NYC. https://pro.magnumphotos.com/Package/2K7O3RJSJ42A

These pics are all really great, maybe not "trad" in many cases but still a really fun insight into 1980s NYC and how much grittier it apparently was (I won't pretend to have been there myself). There's an amazing action photo of an undercover police officer with his gun drawn to the temple of a mugger among other things. Just the kind of thing that you can't believe isn't staged. The photo you posted looks like an American Psycho outtake for example.

I do think it's funny that this photo contrasted with the others show the beginnings of the "yuppie scum" era of New York as it underwent it's transition from the 70s but on the flip side the "yuppie scum" of today would not be caught dead in a subway with that much graffiti. Even the era's yuppies were "harder" 

I should note there is one photo in the collection that is not safe for work.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I've worked and lived in NYC since the '80s (with the exception of a few years spent up in Boston), and, yes, it was that gritty and much, much less safe back then. 

I laugh a bit today when twenty and thirty year olds talk glowingly about this or that neighborhood as a great place to live or work as some of the most coveted areas today were all-but lawless, drug infested hovels in the '80s. 

The nice thing is things did get better.


----------



## Sam H

Yes I live in the East Village and used to live further east in Alphabet City and my dad remembers those places from when he grew up in New York as being open-air drug bazaars in broad daylight. Now they are safe but I can sympathize with the people who've lived here for a while saying that it's becoming more and more like suburban America. There is a state somewhere in-between terrible neighborhood and suburban strip mall that cities must attempt to find. That seems to be the urban planning juggling act.


----------



## Doctor Damage

nice shirt on RR (and in one photo, on JF)

https://postimg.org/image/wp8mljznl/ https://postimg.org/image/3wk6c35u5/ https://postimg.org/image/4mhklfyv7/ https://postimg.org/image/byzah6on1/ https://postimg.org/image/tmtwojgeb/ https://postimg.org/image/8ezzox3m7/


----------



## Fading Fast

Sam H said:


> Yes I live in the East Village and used to live further east in Alphabet City and my dad remembers those places from when he grew up in New York as being open-air drug bazaars in broad daylight. Now they are safe but I can sympathize with the people who've lived here for a while saying that it's becoming more and more like suburban America. There is a state somewhere in-between terrible neighborhood and suburban strip mall that cities must attempt to find. That seems to be the urban planning juggling act.


Your dad wasn't exaggerating one bit as Alphabet City in the '80s was surreally bad and very, very dangerous. I'll take today over that, but that era had a street grit and human-tragedy-and-struggle vibrancy that today's NYC lacks.

Away form the horrible of say Alphabet City, a normal street in NYC back then might have guys hocking stolen stereo equipment out of the back of an unmarked and shabby looking truck and another very shady but charismatic guy across the street playing three-card monte on a cardboard box set up as a table.

And almost no streets looked like a suburban mall.


----------



## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> nice shirt on RR (and in one photo, on JF)
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/wp8mljznl/ https://postimg.org/image/3wk6c35u5/ https://postimg.org/image/4mhklfyv7/ https://postimg.org/image/byzah6on1/ https://postimg.org/image/tmtwojgeb/ https://postimg.org/image/8ezzox3m7/


Ahh, Barefoot In The Park, one of Jane Fonda's pre "Hanoi Jane" silver screen accomplishments. Wouldn't it be nice if the Hollywood elites would focus on what they know and just stick to acting?  On the other hand, Robert Redford is most assuredly one consistently Tradly dressed dude. :thumbs-up:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Ahh, Barefoot In The Park, one of Jane Fonda's pre "Hanoi Jane" silver screen accomplishments. Wouldn't it be nice if the Hollywood elites would focus on what they know and just stick to acting?  On the other hand, Robert Redford is most assuredly one consistently Tradly dressed dude. :thumbs-up:


With Photobucket having gone insane, I can't currently post pictures, but I agree on Redford. Check out some shots of his movie "Legal Eagles" where he sports at different times a grey herringbone suit and button down shirt / traditional overcoat / grey '50s-era-style sweatshirt and other very Trad clothes. Some unfortunate '80s Prep stuff (popped polo shirt collar) makes its way in there as well, but the overall wardrobe is pretty darn trad.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Delon in OCBD (and he's using the pocket).

https://postimg.org/image/fyx5l2roz/


----------



## Doctor Damage

eagle2250 said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if the Hollywood elites would focus on what they know and just stick to acting?


Is that a joke? If not, then I guess it means you're not a supporter of your constitution's first amendment?


----------



## FiscalDean

Doctor Damage said:


> Is that a joke? If not, then I guess it means you're not a supporter of your constitution's first amendment?


Everyone has the right to free speech, but I suspect Eagle was making a point about getting tired of the Hollywood elite's tendency to be more than a little preachy.


----------



## Corcovado

When I see remarks about how members of some other group really ought to keep their political ideas to themselves, I wonder who exactly is entitled to have political views that are deemed legitimate.


----------



## FiscalDean

Corcovado said:


> When I see remarks about how members of some other group really ought to keep their political ideas to themselves, I wonder who exactly is entitled to have political views that are deemed legitimate.[/
> 
> I'm not sure it's a matter of not allowing some people to express their views, IMHO, the issue is when some are so arrogant to believe that anyone who doesn't agree with their views is obviously ignorant.


----------



## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> Is that a joke? If not, then I guess it means you're not a supporter of your constitution's first amendment?


Be assured, I do support our constitution's first amendment, but I also believe that just short of 31 years of military service has earned me the right to exercise same!


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Ellsworth Bunker


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## universitystripe

Trump's new lawyer, Ty Cobb.

Submitted without commentary...


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Martin Landau RIP.

(w Barbara Bain and Steven Hill)


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Barry Whitman Boy Genius


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## wilhelm00

AldenPyle said:


> Ellsworth Bunker


I have that hat. I love that hat. Oddly, I also have a very similar suit from J.Press and a degree in Foreign Service - occupational hazard?


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Wonder if Maggie is telling George H not to go "wobbly" in this pic. One of her best lines ever.


----------



## Tiger

Doctor Damage said:


> Is that a joke? If not, then I guess it means you're not a supporter of your constitution's first amendment?


Of course, what eagle2250 wrote has _nothing_ to do with the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, as a quick reading of its text would reveal.


----------



## AldenPyle

Brandon deWilde


----------



## AldenPyle

From the garbage of John Updike








https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/finding-john-updike/


----------



## eagle2250

The referenced article, Finding John Updike, from which the photo was taken, is quite an interesting read. It left me wondering just who (interesting characters only) might be living in my neighborhoodicon_scratch. Thanks for sharing it with us?


----------



## AldenPyle

According to the internet, Fugate's is a trad beachwear store (est. 1916) in Boca Grande, FL


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/yb7dl2fan/


----------



## Doctor Damage

Doctor Damage said:


> Having dug out a number of photos to illustrate various trad threads for my own reference, I have decided to post some of the more interesting ones here.
> 
> Archibald Cox, for starters.


Unfortunately these photos are not longer hosted but I'll see if I can find them on my hard drive. Here's some of them.

https://postimg.org/image/hw32h42b3/ https://postimg.org/image/6nt3ywytb/ https://postimg.org/image/m4h5bh09b/ https://postimg.org/image/fsggzsyfj/ https://postimg.org/image/xnppxh57d/


----------



## AldenPyle

Alexander Butterfield


----------



## AldenPyle

Thomas Hart Benton


----------



## AldenPyle

Ron Ziegler


----------



## SG_67

AldenPyle said:


> Ron Ziegler


Is that Helen Thomas sitting bottom right?


----------



## AldenPyle

I think you must be right.


----------



## AldenPyle

Federal Reserve Chairman Arthur F. Burns


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> I think you must be right.


In his movies and his personal life, Newman rocked the pre-hippies '60s version of Ivy. He never looked as comfortable in his clothes as he does in this period. Like Jon Hamm four decades later, the '60s Ivy look was made for him and him for it.


----------



## Charles Dana

SG_67 said:


> Is that Helen Thomas sitting bottom right?


It is indeed she: UPI's outspoken thorn in the side to a long succession of Presidents, starting with JFK.


----------



## SG_67

Charles Dana said:


> It is indeed she: UPI's outspoken thorn in the side to a long succession of Presidents, starting with JFK.


Thanks!


----------



## AldenPyle

Dick Gregory


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Love to get a better sense of the exact fabric of that incredible suit.


----------



## AldenPyle

Leslie Nielsen and Ivan Dixon


----------



## AldenPyle

John Banner, Bob Crane, Werner Klemperer


----------



## AldenPyle

James Franciscus in The Naked City


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Posted for watchband


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Leslie Nielsen and Ivan Dixon


Good looking sweater



AldenPyle said:


> James Franciscus in The Naked City


Cool look, holds up even today with so much of the '60s look influencing today's stye.


----------



## AldenPyle

Father of Preventive Cardiac Medicine, Dr. Paul Dudley White


----------



## AldenPyle

James Reston


----------



## AldenPyle

Tom Harmon w/ beloved Michigan Astronomy professor Doc Losh


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/5qms72o5h/


----------



## Cassadine

McGeorge Bundy


----------



## Cassadine

The inimitable William F. Buckley, Jr.


----------



## Cassadine

Bill going out for a sail.


----------



## Cassadine

Bill's son, Christopher Buckley


----------



## Cassadine

And, finally, Bill's brother, Reid Buckley


----------



## Cassadine

Journalist and author, Roger Kimball


----------



## Cassadine

Journalist and author, G. Bruce Boyer, who, I would think, has been posted here before.


----------



## Cassadine

I think, at the outset of this thread, Archibald Cox was noted. And well noted, I'd add. Ergo, I thinks it's fitting (pun intended) to get some chaps from the other side represented.

G. Gordon Liddy


----------



## Cassadine

And... E. Howard Hunt


----------



## Cassadine

H.R. Haldeman


----------



## Cassadine

Justice John Paul Stevens


----------



## Cassadine

Journalist and author George Will


----------



## Cassadine

Alfonso Ribeiro as "Carlton Banks".


----------



## AldenPyle

Cassadine said:


> View attachment 17688
> 
> And, finally, Bill's brother, Reid Buckley


Good pic. Don't sleep on Sen. James L. Buckley either


----------



## AldenPyle

Or Pat Buchanan
















(w Dwight Chapin)


----------



## Cassadine

AldenPyle said:


> Good pic. Don't sleep on Sen. James L. Buckley either


In a way, the Buckley's were almost the anti-Kennedy clan. Reid's book on th family is fantastic.


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/70vkd40dx/


----------



## AldenPyle

Mark Hatfield


----------



## AldenPyle

Hawaii 1948


----------



## Cassadine

Brooks Atkinson, drama critic of The New York Times for three decades. He won of the Pulitzer Prize for foreign correspondence in 1947.


----------



## Cassadine

Rev. Peter J. Gomes


----------



## Cassadine

Poet and professor Mark Van Doren


----------



## Cassadine

Henry James and William James


----------



## Cassadine

F. Scott Fitzgerald


----------



## Cassadine

William Butler Yeats


----------



## Cassadine

Mark Helprin... who should have a Pulitzer by now.


----------



## AldenPyle

John Ashbery RIP


----------



## Cassadine

Truman Capote


----------



## Cassadine

JD Salinger


----------



## Cassadine

Norman Mailer


----------



## Cassadine

Alfred Stieglitz


----------



## Cassadine

Ernest Hemingway


----------



## AldenPyle

Donald Barthelme


----------



## AldenPyle

Dom Delillo


----------



## AldenPyle

Wiiliam Gaddis








1955








1986


----------



## AldenPyle

Alex Haley


----------



## Cassadine

Mark Twain


----------



## Cassadine

Douglas Macarthur and his wife, Jean.


----------



## Cassadine

Harry Truman... a man that butted heads with Macarthur more than once.


----------



## AldenPyle

Senator Kenneth Keating


----------



## Fading Fast

Cassadine said:


> View attachment 17890
> 
> 
> Harry Truman... a man that butted heads with Macarthur more than once.


Truman was Trad but, quite often, not Ivy (not that you implied he was). As a failed men's haberdashery owner, he enjoyed clothes and definitely had flair for dressing. Possibly our only former clothing-store-owner President.


----------



## AldenPyle

Warren Miller


----------



## Cassadine

Joe Kennedy, Jr.


----------



## LowEndTheory

SG_67 said:


> Is that Helen Thomas sitting bottom right?


I would say with 90% certainty, yes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cassadine

In memory of Summer 2017 quickly passing into history.


----------



## AldenPyle

Grant Tinker


----------



## AldenPyle

Richard Chamberlain 1966


----------



## Cassadine

I see a "Mary Tyler Moore as sidekick" theme occurring. Classy lady. I think she might've been the first woman to rock dress slacks on television.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

Cassadine said:


> I see a "Mary Tyler Moore as sidekick" theme occurring. Classy lady. I think she might've been the first woman to rock dress slacks on television.


You are correct, but more specifically, she was rocking capri pants. That entire show - as can be seen by "Rob's" cardigan in the second picture - is trad clothing joy.

Mary in her capris:









Mary, her capris and Rob (Dick Van ****) with cardigan, skinny '60s tie, but (I think) a full-lenght-collar OCBD:


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> You are correct, but more specifically, she was rocking capri pants. That entire show - as can be seen by "Rob's" cardigan in the second picture - is trad clothing joy.
> 
> Mary in her capris:
> View attachment 17952
> 
> 
> Mary, her capris and Rob (Dick Van ****) with cardigan, skinny '60s tie, but (I think) a full-lenght-collar OCBD:
> View attachment 17953


Great show. Near perfect at times. A cast of comedic geniuses, and writers that consistently hit home runs.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> You are correct, but more specifically, she was rocking capri pants.


And the CBS executives were very worried about how Mary Tyler Moore's form-fitting capris hugged her derrière. They would warn Carl Reiner, the show's creator and writer, to be careful about the "undercupping." They didn't think America was ready for "undercupping."


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> And the CBS executives were very worried about how Mary Tyler Moore's form-fitting capris hugged her derrière. They would warn Carl Reiner, the show's creator and writer, to be careful about the "undercupping." They didn't think America was ready for "undercupping."


Oh how far we've come.


----------



## AldenPyle

Donald Sutherland and Timothy Hutton


----------



## jimw

Fading Fast said:


> Oh how far we've come.


Mmm ..... MTM. I've posted this at some point in the past, but I love this photo of her in the green sweater, well before the pantsuits and crochet sweater vests of the MTM Show: https://i.imgur.com/eP1xCCD.jpg


----------



## Charles Dana

jimw said:


> Mmm ..... MTM. I've posted this at some point in the past, but I love this photo of her in the green sweater, well before the pantsuits and crochet sweater vests of the MTM Show: https://i.imgur.com/eP1xCCD.jpg


I also like that photo because it is a rare color photograph taken on the set of the Dick Van **** Show.


----------



## SG_67

AldenPyle said:


> Donald Sutherland and Timothy Hutton


That movie really captures what I call "Northshore trad". You could see some of it in Risky Business as well as some of the John Hughes movies.

It's a pretty tight knit, old money crowd. Many are Northwestern grads.


----------



## AldenPyle

SG_67 said:


> That movie really captures what I call "Northshore trad". You could see some of it in Risky Business as well as some of the John Hughes movies.
> 
> It's a pretty tight knit, old money crowd. Many are Northwestern grads.




















Very solid sweater game


----------



## AldenPyle

This was just 2 years after Animal House. Quite an actor


----------



## AldenPyle

Peppard


----------



## AldenPyle

1940


----------



## AldenPyle

Ross Macdonald


----------



## AldenPyle

Dan Brown


----------



## rl1856

Charles Dana said:


> And the CBS executives were very worried about how Mary Tyler Moore's form-fitting capris hugged her derrière. They would warn Carl Reiner, the show's creator and writer, to be careful about the "undercupping." They didn't think America was ready for "undercupping."


Probably the first TV show where the audience knew something was going on in the bedroom of the characters.


----------



## SG_67

rl1856 said:


> Probably the first TV show where the audience knew something was going on in the bedroom of the characters.


What did they think when little Ricky was on the way?


----------



## AldenPyle

David Halberstam


----------



## AldenPyle

Neil Sheehan


----------



## AldenPyle

Don Hewitt and the team


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Neil Sheehan


That outfit could have come out of most of the spy or P.I. TV shows in the early '60s or any "Twilight Zone" episode. Very iconic of that period.


----------



## eagle2250

AldenPyle said:


> Don Hewitt and the team


This photo graphically illustrates just how severe the losses of the real talent have been in recent years!


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> That outfit could have come out of most of the spy or P.I. TV shows in the early '60s or any "Twilight Zone" episode. Very iconic of that period.


Yeah pretty classic. According to Wikipedia, Sheehan was a pretty preppy dude. 


eagle2250 said:


> This photo graphically illustrates just how severe the losses of the real talent have been in recent years!


Haven't seen it in decades. Hewitt is really killing it here, though


----------



## AldenPyle

Bobby Riggs, 1939


----------



## AldenPyle

Boston Mayor Kevin White


----------



## SG_67

eagle2250 said:


> This photo graphically illustrates just how severe the losses of the real talent have been in recent years!


Well, it's not like they've completely given up on journalistic integrity. Oh wait!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/oprah-winfrey-becomes-special-contributor-to-60-minutes/


----------



## SG_67

Lt. Col. Herbert Carter (one of the original Tuskegee Airmen)


----------



## AldenPyle

The Sargent Shrivers


----------



## AldenPyle

Study for Norman Rockwell painting


----------



## AldenPyle

Family of Bay of Pigs prisoner executed in Cuba


----------



## AldenPyle

Protesters


----------



## AldenPyle

RIP


----------



## eagle2250

^^Well put, member AldenPyle...
Hugh Hefner; the man, the myth, the legend and social mentor for many of this Country's teen aged men, over this past half century! He has earned the rest.


----------



## SG_67

If we’re talking purely about the way he dressed in his younger years, then I suppose I see the point.


----------



## Doctor Damage

SG_67 said:


> If we're talking purely about the way he dressed in his younger years, then I suppose I see the point.


You're right, later he veered off into different clothing styles, like the albert slippers and silk dressing gowns. But here's some early pics, when he was into white OCBDs and penny loafers. I was flipping through my Playboy book which is full of historical images and there's an image from 1956 when Playboy had a booth at some clothing conventions called the "Playboy Ivy Center", planned by Chapman Plat (?) of Chicago, in which they were promoting ivy league clothing, which of course was all the rage at the time. The photo shows the booth with a young man flipping through a bunch of sack sports jackets on a rack.

 https://postimg.org/image/mzjv6jpcr/ https://postimg.org/image/orcu1w3p7/ https://postimg.org/image/71b5gwfuj/ https://postimg.org/image/f6t7f36ob/


----------



## Doctor Damage

Three presidents, three polo shirt variations.

https://postimg.org/image/k7qwpu33p/


----------



## AldenPyle

Gordon Lish 1970


----------



## Orsini

AldenPyle said:


> 1940


That car is wrong for 1940.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jack Mullaney with Living Doll co-star Julie Newmar


----------



## Charles Dana

Orsini said:


> That car is wrong for 1940.


True. Furthermore, neither the eyeglasses (both pairs) nor the woman's hairstyle say "1940" to me. I'm getting an early-to-mid-1950s vibe. I also have a feeling--just a feeling--that if the photo were really from 1940, the man's trousers would have a higher rise and be baggier.


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles Dana said:


> True. Furthermore, neither the eyeglasses (both pairs) nor the woman's hairstyle say "1940" to me. I'm getting an early-to-mid-1950s vibe. I also have a feeling--just a feeling--that if the photo were really from 1940, the man's trousers would have a higher rise and be baggier.


https://images.google.com/hosted/life/0b1ac17d51d13a80.html

Photo is labelled 1940, could be misarchived.

On further review, the pic is from 1955, the family was headed to the mom's 15th college reunion


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ A shout-out to the desert boots with dress trousers. Not my thing, but I applaud his enthusiasm and spirit.


----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ A shout-out to the desert boots with dress trousers. Not my thing, but I applaud his enthusiasm and spirit.


He was a member of the editorial staff at Life Magazine in the early 1970s to put it in context.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> He was a member of the editorial staff at Life Magazine in the early 1970s to put it in context.


Thank you. So a more "artsy" business where "stretching" the conventions was part of its DNA.


----------



## gamma68

eagle2250 said:


> This photo graphically illustrates just how severe the losses of the real talent have been in recent years!


"Have you ever wondered WHY there's been such a loss of news talent in recent years? I do...."


----------



## AJP

Bret Stephens


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Robert Lowell


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Bugliosi


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/1ci582eqx7/


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

EO Wilson


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Looks like a camelhair blazer in the last photo (with the giant ant model). I always wanted one of those but I look a fool in light-coloured jackets.


----------



## MDP

Richard Wilbur


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Looks like a camelhair blazer in the last photo (with the giant ant model). I always wanted one of those but I look a fool in light-coloured jackets.


I want one to, but I don't really face enough cold weather to justify another winter sport coat. 
Wilson seems like a pretty committed trad


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Dr.Watson

I was fascinated recently by the story of Charles "Pug" Ravenel. A member of one of South Carolina's oldest families, he won the Democratic nomination for governor in 1972 after a popular and charismatic campaign, and was set to win the general election in a landslide (at the age of just 36). Then, it was discovered that he did not meet the state's five year residency requirement, having recently returned from working on Wall Street. He was disqualified, and the ensuing chaos in the Democratic party allowed for the election of the first Republican in the state since reconstruction.


----------



## 89826

E O Wilson is a giant, and his book Consilience is wonderful. I met him once at a restaurant in Logan Airport- he invited me to sit down and we chatted for some time. He lost an eye as a boy (to a fishing hook, if memory serves); that's why he started to study ants- up close work. You can notice in the pictures.


----------



## AldenPyle

Arthur Cinader, founder of J Crew (right), RIP


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Oh yes I saw that article yesterday. Great look on Cinader in the photo above.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Frederick Forsyth. I like this shirt because it's in a faded pink colour, not the strong pink which BB uses and which I consider too harsh (I sold my pink BB shirts a few years back).

https://postimg.org/image/12altb5ea3/


----------



## Orsini

That shade of pink is OK.


----------



## Charles Dana

Orsini said:


> That shade of pink is OK.


Brooks Brothers sells (frequently at a discount) button-down pinpoint Oxford shirts in that shade of pink.


----------



## AldenPyle

What is the verdict on Mercer's pink?


----------



## Orsini

Charles Dana said:


> Brooks Brothers sells (frequently at a discount) button-down pinpoint Oxford shirts in that shade of pink.


I see. If I ever have to work in an office again, I might get one in that color.


----------



## AldenPyle

Murray Kempton


----------



## AldenPyle

Harry Jaffa


----------



## AldenPyle

George Anastaplo


----------



## AldenPyle

Harvard A Capella group 1965


----------



## AldenPyle

John Heinz


----------



## Bishop of Briggs

Doctor Damage said:


> Frederick Forsyth. I like this shirt because it's in a faded pink colour, not the strong pink which BB uses and which I consider too harsh (I sold my pink BB shirts a few years back).
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/12altb5ea3/


Freddie is British.

I have not read through the other pages on this thread.

My nomination would be PJ O'Rourke.


----------



## Doctor Damage

As a car guy I always enjoyed O'Rourke's joke: "the fastest car in the world is a rental car".


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/7qeggvuk0b/ [/URL] https://postimg.org/image/1ue54ee4x7/  [url=https://postimg.org/image/97klin2z2j/] https://postimg.org/image/8f7q0wmsrv/ https://postimg.org/image/27wc0quou3/ https://postimg.org/image/11d0s56fe3/ https://postimg.org/image/1fjgj0hikb/


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/52vb4ec8ln/


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/7vc5zgzcgr/


----------



## AldenPyle

Economist Irving Fisher


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


>


Skinny lapel, skinny tie, sack sport coat - all things that, to some extent, you see on "well-dressed" kids today (I'm seeing and reading more about "soft" shoulders in the last year than I have throughout the fashion current cycle), but because his jacket has classic proportions and tailoring - its length is trad and it's not cut tight to his body - the outfit looks great.

Today they would have shortened the length of the sport coat meaningfully (and, probably, reduced the radius of the sleeves) and then tailored it like Saran Wrap. The result would be awkward not elegant; whereas, the above has a comfortable fit and flow which allows the material to drape naturally, today, the super-tight fits cause a lot of pulling and bubbling aborting any normal drape.

It's a shame that today's echo of '60s trad has missed some of the key elements that made it work.


----------



## gamma68

Doctor Damage said:


> https://postimg.org/image/7vc5zgzcgr/


Howard Dean sports an Ivy look fairly consistently. I do wish he'd find a way to integrate more button down collars in his attire and eliminate spread collars.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> Howard Dean sports an Ivy look fairly consistently. I do wish he'd find a way to integrate more button down collars in his attire and eliminate spread collars.


While Dean's politics are fiery liberal, his upbringing - Park Avenue / East Hampton / Maidstone Club / wealthy father on Wall Street / Yale - argue that his early and formative sartorial influences could not have been more East Coast Ivy.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Bridgers

Fred Willson - SW Montana architect


----------



## AldenPyle

Bill Moyers


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ young Bill Moyers! wow, never seen him young, he has always seemed the same age to me... got lots of respect for him... thanks for posting!


----------



## Doctor Damage

always in buttondowns

https://postimg.org/image/7260217jr/


----------



## AldenPyle

Leon Gorman by Jon R. Friedman


----------



## AldenPyle

Whit Bell, Historian and Librarian Emeritus of the American Philosophical Society

(photograph by Friedman)


----------



## AldenPyle

Lodge & Bundy


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


>


That's pretty darn close to the perfect grey herringbone tweed sport coat.


----------



## gamma68

Doctor Damage said:


> always in buttondowns
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/7260217jr/


I've also noticed his penchant for button downs. Nice to see in a landscape filled with spread collars.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Fading Fast said:


> That's pretty darn close to the perfect grey herringbone tweed sport coat.


Roth is pretty under-rated as a style icon.


----------



## TDWat

Country/estate work trad? This picture came from an environmental group funding runoff control projects done by local landowners.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I think I've asked this before, but where do three piece suits fall on the trad - Ivy continuum? To me, they feel more trad than Ivy (clearly they were part of both universes at some level), but mine is not an informed opinion, just a feel.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I think I've asked this before, but where do three piece suits fall on the trad - Ivy continuum? To me, they feel more trad than Ivy (clearly they were part of both universes at some level), but mine is not an informed opinion, just a feel.


Back in my undergrad days, I had a professor who frequently wore vested 3 roll 2 suits. His educational background included work at Cornell. I'm not sure if that would classify him as Ivy or trad (or if that is that much difference).


----------



## AldenPyle

Seems like it must have been trad at one time (see Irving Fisher). It seems to be more dandy if anything these days, so lets say dandy trad. Certainly Bugliosi is peacocking if he was going 3 piece suit in early 70s LA.


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Howard

This here is a very early photo of Charles Manson wearing a shirt and tie combo.


----------



## AldenPyle

Roger Corman


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

John Ashbery


----------



## AldenPyle

RIP


----------



## AldenPyle

Architect Vincent Scully, RIP


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Lee Marvin


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Great freakin' lining to the suit coat.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Lee Marvin...
A well dressed actor and so much more. He was taken from us all too soon on 29 August 1987 of a Myocardio infarction, at the age of 63 years. A national hero, he is buried at Arlington National Cemetery.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Great freakin' lining to the suit coat.


+1, I have to wonder if the suit was made by Chipp.


----------



## AldenPyle

Historian Peter Gay


----------



## AldenPyle

Norman Mailer


----------



## AldenPyle

Design artist Ivan Chermayeff'RIP (w partner Tom Geismar)


----------



## AldenPyle

Speaker of the House John McCormack


----------



## Doctor Damage

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Lee Marvin...
> A well dressed actor and so much more. He was taken from us all too soon on 29 August 1987 of a Myocardio infarction, at the age of 63 years. A national hero, he is buried at Arlington National Cemetery.


63 ain't too shabby for those days, man.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's some photos of Marvin filming one of the many iconic scenes in _Point Blank_ (source: https://theeditroomfloor.blogspot.ca/2012/09/unseen-photos-from-point-blank-part-2.html). The colour photo was a literal screenshot taken by a friend of mine, lol

https://postimg.org/image/q7y1fggbp/ https://postimg.org/image/q7y1fgo1h/ https://postimg.org/image/kjrqokret/


----------



## AldenPyle

I always had the impression that Marvin was kind of a blue collar guy, but it turns out Marvin was kind of a black sheep rich kid who joined the Marines in WWII which actually kind of fits his screen persona.


----------



## AldenPyle

Lead singer of Yes, John B. Anderson, RIP


----------



## 89826

AldenPyle said:


> Lead singer of Yes, John B. Anderson, RIP


You are of course joking, I hope.


----------



## Classic II

89826 said:


> You are of course joking, I hope.


I hope (and think) he is. That's John Bayard Anderson, who indeed died on December 3rd. The singer's name is John Roy Anderson.


----------



## AldenPyle

Guilty. I was giving you the runaround.


----------



## Charles Dana

Doctor Damage said:


> 63 ain't too shabby for those days, man.


I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. For a person to die at age 63 in 1987 was, in my view, to die way too young. Perhaps living to age 63 in the 1800s or early 1900s would have been an accomplishment, but dying at that age as recently as 1987? That would have been a significantly premature death.


----------



## AldenPyle

Cheever


----------



## AldenPyle

Film-maker Bruce Brown RIP


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

WFB and Harry Jaffa


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> WFB and Harry Jaffa


It is probably SBS* or some other deficiency that explains why I love the third button / button hole on the lapel roll so much. There is no normal / rational reason why.

* Small brain syndrome


----------



## AldenPyle

Sen. Gaylord Nelson


----------



## gamma68

Here's a Trad contemporary -- Ryan Crocker:


----------



## AldenPyle

Writer Paul Goodman with college kids, unknown date


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Lem Billings with Bobby Jr.


----------



## Doctor Damage

nice shirt

https://postimg.org/image/jw7bz52fp/ https://postimg.org/image/tgqym2wxh/


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> nice shirt
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/jw7bz52fp/ https://postimg.org/image/tgqym2wxh/


have you read his biography? I was just reading it today. Seems like he had a real eye for writing talent, but a tragic fame whore.


----------



## AldenPyle

University of Chicago 1948


----------



## AldenPyle

Saul Bellow


----------



## AldenPyle

Paul Auster


----------



## AldenPyle

FBI Director William Webster


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## eagle2250

George Bush and William Webster...two great American patriots, 
so much less complicated than our present day experience. Leaves me wishing for the good old days! Thank you, Alden Pyle, for posting those pictures.


----------



## New Old Stock

The film 'The Post' opens today. Here are two pictures of Ben Bradlee that Alden Pyle posted back in May & a picture of Tom Hanks playing Ben Bradlee on set. Nice to see they stayed true to the 3/2 Sack, though they should have gone with the same polka dot tie & a better striped shirt for Tom if you ask me....

















Tom Hanks (as Ben Bradlee)


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/uo9njwex7/


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> https://postimg.org/image/uo9njwex7/


Newman had early '60s trad supercool down pat.


----------



## AldenPyle

John Dos Passos


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> John Dos Passos


You can feel the wonderful texture in that sport coat / the collar roll is outstanding and I wouldn't bet against that tie being Ancient Madder.


----------



## Charles Dana

Doctor Damage said:


> https://postimg.org/image/uo9njwex7/


I first saw the above photo in a big, heavy picture book about Hollywood icons. This was many years ago in a Border's bookstore. That photo has stuck in my memory ever since but not, unfortunately, the name of the book. Paul Newman had a passion for cigarettes, beer, and popcorn. And for Joanne.


----------



## Bermuda

This gentleman was attending the Iona vs. St Johns game at MSG a couple weeks ago. Nice Iona pin and tie Sir. Iona '02 here. We are a traditional Irish catholic school in New Rochelle NY with a feeder prep school. Go Gaels


----------



## Doctor Damage

Charles Dana said:


> I first saw the above photo in a big, heavy picture book about Hollywood icons. This was many years ago in a Border's bookstore. That photo has stuck in my memory ever since but not, unfortunately, the name of the book. Paul Newman had a passion for cigarettes, beer, and popcorn. And for Joanne.


If you ever recall the name of that book, please let me know.


----------



## Charles Dana

Doctor Damage said:


> If you ever recall the name of that book, please let me know.


I'm working on it. I've been doing some Google searches, trying various key words, but nothing so far. I haven't given up.


----------



## AldenPyle

Archibald Cox


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> I'm working on it. I've been doing some Google searches, trying various key words, but nothing so far. I haven't given up.


It's driving me nuts too. I've flipped through my clothing books (no small feat) as I'm 99% sure I have the book - but haven't found it yet. I also tried image search on Google but only came up with a bunch of false leads. I'll keep trying and will report back if I have any luck.


----------



## HerrDavid

RIP Vincent Scully.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> It's driving me nuts too. I've flipped through my clothing books (no small feat) as I'm 99% sure I have the book - but haven't found it yet. I also tried image search on Google but only came up with a bunch of false leads. I'll keep trying and will report back if I have any luck.


is it one of these?


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> is it one of these?


Funny, I was too cheap to buy "Hollywood and the Ivy Look" when it came out as it was one of those expensive coffee table offerings for $75 or so and figured I'd buy it later when its price came down. So much for what I know - its price (of the original edition) is now in the $200+ range. But the one you've posted a picture of is a re-issue that I didn't know about which you can buy it for around $30.

I was not familiar with "Dressing in the Dark...," but have just ordered a copy of it and the re-issue of "Hollywood and the Ivy Look," so both will be here in a few days (however long it takes Amazon to make it through the snow). Once I receive them, I'll review and post if the Newman picture is in them or not.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Hollywood & Ivy book is quite good, in my opinion (the original issue had a less interesting photo on the cover, McQueen I think). I remember being in a pub in the UK in 1994 and a (drunk) woman said I "look like that guy from Psycho" who I actually did strongly resemble in those days. I never did get Dressing in the Dark so I'll be interested to hear your opinion after you get it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Hollywood & Ivy book is quite good, in my opinion (the original issue had a less interesting photo on the cover, McQueen I think). I remember being in a pub in the UK in 1994 and a (drunk) woman said I "look like that guy from Psycho" who I actually did strongly resemble in those days. I never did get Dressing in the Dark so I'll be interested to hear your opinion after you get it.


"Hollywood and Ivy" should be here in a day or two (snow slowed its progress) and "Dressing in the Dark" in a few weeks (coming from an independent bookseller who just uses Amazon's platform). I'll report back after I've spent a little time with them.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> I first saw the above photo in a big, heavy picture book about Hollywood icons. This was many years ago in a Border's bookstore. That photo has stuck in my memory ever since but not, unfortunately, the name of the book. Paul Newman had a passion for cigarettes, beer, and popcorn. And for Joanne.


My "Hollywood and the Ivy Look" just arrived (Amazon with a Sunday delivery - it's a competitive retail world out there) and the picture in question isn't in there unless I've missed it (I flipped through once and then checked each page in the index that listed Newman).

I'm still waiting on "Dressing in the Dark," but that doesn't really seem like the type of style book that would have the picture in question. I'm wondering if it maybe that picture (which I, too, remember being in a coffee table book) was in a book oriented more toward western style or even some one-off book where that picture fit in but really isn't a men's style book at all.

All that said, "Hollywood and the Ivy Look" looks awesome. Plan to dig in later today - time permitting.


----------



## AldenPyle

Nat Hentoff


----------



## MikeF

AldenPyle said:


> Nat Hentoff


Hentoff was a great man RIP.


----------



## AldenPyle

Lincoln Chaffee


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Only a three block walk to Press and Brooks.


----------



## AldenPyle

These are out-takes from the 1954 article on the Ivy League look (the one with the kid trying on a sportscoat at J.Press).


----------



## Doctor Damage

Billy Wilder with I.A.L. Diamond, his longtime writer.

https://postimg.org/image/4tuknj06z/ https://postimg.org/image/dc40rvm57/


----------



## AldenPyle

Great picture^
Carroll Shelby


----------



## Fading Fast

You can't get much cooler than Carroll Shelby. What a moment - jazz musicians, sport car designers, hot-young Hollywood stars all wearing Ivy. Wonderful man-moment-machine example, with the machine being Ivy clothes.


----------



## AldenPyle

1954


----------



## AldenPyle

Silent movie actor Richard Bartelmess


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Silent movie actor Richard Bartelmess


You are spot on, he was a big silent film star and that was definitely the peak of his career, but he did make some "talkies" (normal movies to you and me).

One normal one worth catching (TCM plays it now and again) is "The Last Flight -" the story of disaffected (today, we'd say suffering from PTSD) WWI flying vets "playing" (drinking, partying, etc.) in Paris after the war, but really (a la Fitzgerald / The Lost Generation) trying to adjust back to civilian life after the horrors of combat.

Bartelmess is outstanding in it as a wounded vet who is, kinda, the leader of the small group. For AAAC members, the clothes - suits, ties, sweaters, etc., are outstanding and more '30s than '20s (when the movie is supposed to have taken place) as I think they cared a lot less about accuracy in those details back then.

It's a good, solid movie (holds up pretty well despite being 87 years old) with wonderful clothes and other period details. Plus there's a cute as heck female star (some things never change).


----------



## AldenPyle

Skiing filmmaker Warren Miller


----------



## AldenPyle

Chuck Percy


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Doctor Damage

https://postimg.org/image/6zy3wv7pn/


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Senator William B. Spong


----------



## AldenPyle

Reverend William C. Spong


----------



## AldenPyle

Bruce Lee (w/ Ip Man)


----------



## AldenPyle

Amb. John Gavin at the Bates Motel.


----------



## Doctor Damage

AldenPyle said:


> Bruce Lee (w/ Ip Man)


Your link or whatever isn't working. Is this the photo?

https://postimg.org/image/o6xjrqmq3/


----------



## AldenPyle

Yes


Doctor Damage said:


> Your link or whatever isn't working. Is this the photo?
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/o6xjrqmq3/


Yes, though the original link is working for me.


----------



## AldenPyle

1963


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ fascinating shoulder treatment, thanks for posting that photo

here's a photo from Japanese website, same shoulders:

https://postimg.org/image/f5e0505e3/


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ fascinating shoulder treatment, thanks for posting that photo
> 
> here's a photo from Japanese website, same shoulders:
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/f5e0505e3/


Great catch. It's a natural shoulder line but with an oddly attached sleeve as if the sleeves' width at the shoulder was too big for the hole of the jacket, so the sleeves had to be pinched into a series of minor pleats to make them fit / so that they could be sewed onto the jacket.

Thoughts, does that ⇧ make any sense?


----------



## AldenPyle

Its been a few years since people were talking about that stuff but is it what they call spella camica


----------



## AldenPyle

Rowland Evans Jr


----------



## AldenPyle

Dovima and WFB by Avedon, 1957


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> Great catch. It's a natural shoulder line but with an oddly attached sleeve as if the sleeves' width at the shoulder was too big for the hole of the jacket, so the sleeves had to be pinched into a series of minor pleats to make them fit / so that they could be sewed onto the jacket.





AldenPyle said:


> Its been a few years since people were talking about that stuff but is it what they call spella camica





AldenPyle said:


> Rowland Evans Jr


Friend of mine who used to post in another forum (which shall not be named) proposed that how the sleevehead is handled is the most important element of what might be called a "traditional American natural shoulder". The Rowland Evans Jr photo illustrates this well, and, once one looks beyond the spella whatever (lol), the photos of Murray Rose and the Japanese blazer do too. Basically, he said that when the shoulder padding is extended beyond the sleeve seam to create a rounded sleevehead and a curved transition from the horizontal to the vertical, thus closely resembling the curve of the human shoulder, then you've got a proper traditional American natural shoulder. Any sleevehead which has a sharp transition from the shoulder to the sleeve does not resemble the human shoulder, and no matter how little padding it might have, is not a traditional American natural shoulder. For what it's worth, I agree with him. I myself think that jackets with zero or little padding are not what I would consider a natural shoulder, since they don't resemble the human shoulder at all. As for the Savile Row version, which creates those 45 degree sloping shoulders, which are sometimes called natural shoulders, the less said the better since they look ridiculous and totally unnatural.


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> Friend of mine who used to post in another forum (which shall not be named) proposed that how the sleevehead is handled is the most important element of what might be called a "traditional American natural shoulder". The Rowland Evans Jr photo illustrates this well, and, once one looks beyond the spella whatever (lol), the photos of Murray Rose and the Japanese blazer do too. Basically, he said that when the shoulder padding is extended beyond the sleeve seam to create a rounded sleevehead and a curved transition from the horizontal to the vertacle, thus closely resembling the curve of the human shoulder, then you've got a proper traditional American natural shoulder. Any sleevehead which has a sharp transition from the shoulder to the sleeve does not resemble the human shoulder, and no matter how little padding it might have, is not a traditional American natural shoulder. For what it's worth, I agree with him. I myself think that jackets with zero or little padding are not what I would consider a natural shoulder, since they don't resemble the human shoulder at all. As for the Savile Row version, which creates those 45 degree sloping shoulders, which are sometimes called natural shoulders, the less said the better since they look ridiculous and totally unnatural.


Great post. Based on your definition of the natural shoulder, the above suit jacket on Rowland Evans Jr., a few post above, seems to be a pretty spot-on example of it.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ further to this, here's Dean Acheson...

https://postimg.org/image/8fgvan8ff/


----------



## AldenPyle

Doctor Damage said:


> Friend of mine who used to post in another forum (which shall not be named) proposed that how the sleevehead is handled is the most important element of what might be called a "traditional American natural shoulder". The Rowland Evans Jr photo illustrates this well, and, once one looks beyond the spella whatever (lol), the photos of Murray Rose and the Japanese blazer do too. Basically, he said that when the shoulder padding is extended beyond the sleeve seam to create a rounded sleevehead and a curved transition from the horizontal to the vertical, thus closely resembling the curve of the human shoulder, then you've got a proper traditional American natural shoulder. Any sleevehead which has a sharp transition from the shoulder to the sleeve does not resemble the human shoulder, and no matter how little padding it might have, is not a traditional American natural shoulder. For what it's worth, I agree with him. I myself think that jackets with zero or little padding are not what I would consider a natural shoulder, since they don't resemble the human shoulder at all. As for the Savile Row version, which creates those 45 degree sloping shoulders, which are sometimes called natural shoulders, the less said the better since they look ridiculous and totally unnatural.


Nicely described. I think that is a pretty nuanced explanation, though I guess the effect you describe is created with pretty minimal padding.


----------



## AldenPyle

Mel Ferrer & wife


----------



## Bermuda

JR Ewing in Brooks. Dick Clark is from Utica NY where I teach. Ivy Style book autographed by Richard Press


----------



## Doctor Damage

I realize Dacron isn't trad but this jacket has a traditional shape to it.

https://postimg.org/image/jf81lu83v/


----------



## AldenPyle

Ellsworth Bunker


----------



## AldenPyle

Gore Vidal


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles Percy


----------



## AldenPyle

Whitney North Seymour


----------



## AldenPyle

Bahamas, 1957. Slim Aarons


----------



## AldenPyle

Cy Vance


----------



## AldenPyle

Robert Lowell


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Fading Fast

Hard for me to say anything good because of the person, but putting that aside, I like the style of the illustration (painting?) as it has enough details to bring the clothes to life - lapel roll / general drape - but stays a bit vague in an appealing way.


----------



## AldenPyle

Sumner Welles


----------



## AldenPyle

The Colberts, 1968


----------



## AldenPyle

Henry Cabot Lodge


----------



## AldenPyle

Harvey Milk


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

EB White


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> EB White


Plus he wrote some of my favorite books. "Stuart Little," "Elements of Style" (best short book on grammar, ever) and "Here is New York" (best short book on New York City, ever).


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> Plus he wrote some of my favorite books. "Stuart Little," "Elements of Style" (best short book on grammar, ever) and "Here is New York" (best short book on New York City, ever).


Have you read *The Points of my Compass*? It's a collection of some of E. B. White's essays. If you haven't, you must. It's great.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> Have you read *The Points of my Compass*? It's a collection of some of E. B. White's essays. If you haven't, you must. It's great.


Based on your recommendation - I just put a copy in my Amazon cart.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> Based on your recommendation - I just put a copy in my Amazon cart.


Good. You won't be disappointed.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Hubert de Givenchy, who died recently aged 91, and his muse. His personal style, though not full-American, was clearly influenced by American styles.

https://postimg.org/image/52f7606ob/ https://postimg.org/image/ok9ulyj1n/ https://postimg.org/image/bsvofebtn/


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## cipofan

Tod Hackett said:


> Photographer Jonathan Brand photographed in 1967 by Garry Winogrand
> 
> I believe the photo is OF Gary Winogrand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source:
> 
> https://flashbak.com/lower-east-upp...-photographs-jonathan-brand-1957-1968-396229/


----------



## AldenPyle

Duncan Hannah


----------



## 89826

Elements of Style is beyond fantastic.

From memory:
Omit needless words. Omit needless words. Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should have no extra words for the same reason a drawing should have no extra lines and a machine no extra parts.


----------



## Fading Fast

89826 said:


> Elements of Style is beyond fantastic.
> 
> From memory:
> Omit needless words. Omit needless words. Vigorous writing is concise. A sentence should have no extra words for the same reason a drawing should have no extra lines and a machine no extra parts.


It is one of three or four writing / grammar books that has meaningfully helped my professional writing career. I hear his words - like the ones you quote - when I'm writing.



AldenPyle said:


> Duncan Hannah


The coat tossed over the chair in the background looks quite interesting. And, nice apartment.


----------



## Odradek

Critter pants alert !

Sean Spicer goes a bit overboard for St. Patrick's Day.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joseph Coors Sr.


----------



## AldenPyle

James J.Kilpatrick


----------



## AldenPyle

Roger Mudd


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Roger Mudd


Love the shoulder, love the material.


----------



## AldenPyle

William Bennett


----------



## AldenPyle

NY Times photographer George Tames


----------



## AldenPyle

Reagan administration science advisor George Keyworth II
(photgraphed by Tames)


----------



## eagle2250

AldenPyle said:


> NY Times photographer George Tames


Do my eyes deceive me? Is that a Bolo Tie the honorable Mr. Tames is wearing with a Turtleneck? I confess to a secret affection for Bolo ties, but must also confess a lack of sufficient sartorial courage to wear such at this point in my life, though I did wear a couple of them back in the day!


----------



## AldenPyle

One of the usual suspects


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> One of the usual suspects


Darn he had style. The grey slacks, socks and pennies look fantastic while the cashmere (my guess) baby-blue v-neck (without a collared shirt underneath) kicks the personal-style quotient up.


----------



## Bermuda

Welcome back Mr Kotter. Corduroy blazer and whimsical print tie


----------



## Doctor Damage

penny loafers in 1937

https://postimg.org/image/kzdlz8do7/


----------



## Peak and Pine

Question regarding the above and others similar. The new forum format seems to post little tiny pics as above. When clicked on in the hopes they'll become bigger, they do, but are surrounded by soft porn ads from the posting service Post Image. Are you aware? Second question, Gary Cooper?


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> Question regarding the above and others similar. The new forum format seems to post little tiny pics as above. When clicked on in the hopes they'll become bigger, they do, but are surrounded by soft porn ads from the posting service Post Image. Are you aware? Second question, Gary Cooper?


Looks like Super Duper Gary Cooper to me. And, to that point, he doesn't get talk about with the icons like Grant and Astaire, but he was quite the dresser himself.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Peak and Pine said:


> Question regarding the above and others similar. The new forum format seems to post little tiny pics as above. When clicked on in the hopes they'll become bigger, they do, but are surrounded by soft porn ads from the posting service Post Image. Are you aware?


It's a free hosting service; they host thousands of images a day so they have to pay for it somehow, hence those ads. Avert your gaze...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> Looks like Super Duper Gary Cooper to me. And, to that point, he doesn't get talk about with the icons like Grant and Astaire, but he was quite the dresser himself.


Cooper, young. I'm with you on his style, he was great, and a good example of how a tall skinny man could dress well. Cooper never dressed in Ivy League styles, as far as I can tell, but always in what could be called a classic American Hollywood style.

https://postimg.org/image/8bp4esgev/ https://postimg.org/image/ty44vvk53/


----------



## Orsini

Doctor Damage said:


> penny loafers in 1937
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/kzdlz8do7/


And you could sit on a car fender without crushing it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> Cooper, young. I'm with you on his style, he was great, and a good example of how a tall skinny man could dress well. Cooper never dressed in Ivy League styles, as far as I can tell, but always in what could be called a classic American Hollywood style.
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/8bp4esgev/ https://postimg.org/image/ty44vvk53/


Agreed, maybe I'd say he dressed more '30s Apparel Arts (which was what many Hollywood stars in the '30s were doing), but yes, not Ivy (which really jelled as a distinct style separate from popular fashion in the '50s).

He, like many of us, was a product of his times as his dress always reflected the influences of being a big Hollywood star in the '30s.

This ⇩ is a good book on his style. It makes nice addition to one's collection.


----------



## AldenPyle

Seems like he mostly played soldiers or cowboys. Even in those roles that he wore a suit, his character was deliberately uncomfortable, like Mr. Deeds.


----------



## AldenPyle

Buddy Rich


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Seems like he mostly played soldiers or cowboys. Even in those roles that he wore a suit, his character was deliberately uncomfortable, like Mr. Deeds.


Agreed - he loved Westerns and action adventure roles. But when called upon, he could rock a suit:


----------



## SG_67

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed - he loved Westerns and action adventure roles. But when called upon, he could rock a suit:
> 
> View attachment 21449
> View attachment 21450
> View attachment 21451


Fountainhead?


----------



## Fading Fast

SG_67 said:


> Fountainhead?


Good eye - yes for the first pic.

The second two are from an earlier Cooper movie, "Now and Forever," which is an okay movie, but one in which he wears several real cool looking suits.

The suit in the third pic has (from memory, I haven't seen the movie recently) a really neat texture and is really well tailored, but the somewhat awkward pic above is the only still showing all of it that I could find.

And it's fun to note that the bottom button of his vest is not buttoned. Also, check out his very wide pants' cuffs.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> And it's fun to note that the bottom button of his vest is not buttoned.


If you look closely you'll see that the vest is cut so the bottom button can't be buttoned.


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Cassadine

I recall these young men from the early 90's when I was a social worker in the Michigan "Correctional System". I remember saying "No saggy jeans here, fellas." Don't know any of their music, though.


----------



## Cassadine

A decidedly genteel gangster--Arnold Rothstein. I think he probably had his socks ironed.


----------



## Cassadine

John Cheever


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ The last three posts emphasize how much we lost with the marginalization of the bow tie. I know it is viewed today as either geeky or odd by most, but had fickle public opinion pivoted a bit differently, it could still be a nice way to close a collar, pull everything together and punch up an outfit.

Instead of its current reputation, the bow tie could have been seen as a lithe alternative to a regular tie - one with a jaunty spirit and casual cool. Two plus two equals four is a fact; the bow tie's present status in clothing is just happenstance that didn't work in its favor.

It's also fun to see your picture of the real Rothstein above versus the "Boardwalk Empire" version of Rothstein ⇩ dressed in that show's cool but often exaggerated style.


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ The last three posts emphasize how much we lost with the marginalization of the bow tie. I know it is viewed today as either geeky or odd by most, but had fickle public opinion pivoted a bit differently, it could still be a nice way to close a collar, pull everything together and punch up an outfit.
> 
> Instead of its current reputation, the bow tie could have been seen as a lithe alternative to a regular tie - one with a jaunty spirit and casual cool. Two plus two equals four is a fact; the bow tie's present status in clothing is just happenstance that didn't work in its favor.
> 
> It's also fun to see your picture of the real Rothstein above versus the "Boardwalk Empire" version of Rothstein ⇩ dressed in that show's cool but often exaggerated style.
> 
> View attachment 21581
> View attachment 21582


I like bowties, but cannot seem to pull them off too well. Only saw a few episodes of the show, but the style was definitely exaggerated.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cassadine said:


> I like bowties, but cannot seem to pull them off too well. Only saw a few episodes of the show, but the style was definitely exaggerated.


I'm 6'1", 150 lbs and have blue eyes - basically, I look designed to have sand kicked in my face at the beach - there is no chance on earth that I can wear a bow tie without looking uber-nerdy.


----------



## eagle2250

^^While I certainly can't lay claim to your trim build (at this point), I do feel your pain. I have purchased and tried to wear bow ties on several occasions and frankly the only feedback received has been negative. Even my wife, as easy going and kind as she can be, has consistently counseled that bow ties are not a good look for me! Her characterization of the look has not been "uber-nerdy," but rather "Dorky!" Bow Ties can look splendid on others...just no on me. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^While I certainly can't lay claim to your trim build (at this point), I do feel your pain. I have purchased and tried to wear bow ties on several occasions and frankly the only feedback received has been negative. Even my wife, as easy going and kind as she can be, has consistently counseled that bow ties are not a good look for me! Her characterization of the look has not been "uber-nerdy," but rather "Dorky!" Bow Ties can look splendid on others...just no on me. LOL.


The one exception is black tie - the feedback when I've worn that has been very good. But take the bow tie out of that iconic construct and it's back to sand in my face.

What does your wife think of you in black tie?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> The one exception is black tie - the feedback when I've worn that has been very good. But take the bow tie out of that iconic construct and it's back to sand in my face.
> 
> What does your wife think of you in black tie?


My wife tells me I look pretty darned good in my formal military dress uniform and in a civilian Tux. It seems as if formal wear and business dress wear are two separate and distinctly different worlds, to be judged looking through radically different prisms! LOL.


----------



## Doctor Damage

This photo is sooooooooooo 1980s (where's my time machine? sigh)


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> This photo is sooooooooooo 1980s (where's my time machine? sigh)


Fun picture. The phone turret might make it early '90s as we had those installed on our trading floor in '93 and they were, for the time, pretty state of art (but the one in the picture might be an earlier model).

The picture jars two other memory. One, all those enormous computers where either hard wired (got data feeds from specific companies over dedicated phone lines - expensive as heck) or just giant machines that could do specific task like word processing and spread sheets as the internet didn't really hit until '95. It's amazing in retrospect had little they did pre intent.

And, two, the timestamp machine (beige box, just past the mouse) was a Wall Street fixture for decades. It made a nice and satisfyingly loud clunk when you timestamped a ticket (very mechanical machine-age feel). Also, if you were on the trading floor early in the morning or late at night, you heard a constant cacophony of random, reasonably loud, ticks as each machine made its own tick every minute and, since they were never all perfectly aligned, the floor basically "ticked" all the time - again, only noticeable when most of the people were gone.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ great info thanks... yeah it's probably early 90s. That's Alan Greenberg of Bear Stearns. I didn't notice the time stamp when I first looked at the photo, but we used those in the late 90s when I was in back-office, you're right they were heavy and made that great fully-powered mechanical 'ker-chunk' sound. I would have loved to work on a trading floor but alas by the time I was in banking for a few years in the late 90s the days of heavy-human involvement were ending.


----------



## Doctor Damage

1988


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## wacolo

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ great info thanks... yeah it's probably early 90s. That's Alan Greenberg of Bear Stearns. I didn't notice the time stamp when I first looked at the photo, but we used those in the late 90s when I was in back-office, you're right they were heavy and made that great fully-powered mechanical 'ker-chunk' sound. I would have loved to work on a trading floor but alas by the time I was in banking for a few years in the late 90s the days of heavy-human involvement were ending.


Snooping around YT the other day and came across this vid. Most of the human footage starts around 26 minutes. There is SE/Traders around 28:00. And BB makes a brief appearance at 33:42. Interesting for some nostalgia if nothing else.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ oh man, that's a great collection of film... thanks! I will go through the whole thing when I have some time. One thing that hit me: notice how thin everyone is? and I mean everyone. Great "time machine" stuff.


----------



## Fading Fast

wacolo said:


> Snooping around YT the other day and came across this vid. Most of the human footage starts around 26 minutes. There is SE/Traders around 28:00. And BB makes a brief appearance at 33:42. Interesting for some nostalgia if nothing else.


Well, people were dressed better than in the '70s.

The trading floor footage could almost have been shot at the first firm I worked at in '85. All the cardboard storage boxes that you might have noticed in the background of the trading floor jarred a funny memory.

There was a SEC or FINRA (Wall Street regulators) requirement to keep 3 to 7 years of records (depending on this, that and the other thing / category) "on site." Well, brokerage firms generated, in those days, a crazy number of paper records - trade tickets, trade logs, confirms, etc. - so every firm was always scrambling for storage space and adding shelves and cabinets everywhere.

It was quite common to walk into a conference room and see a stack of those boxes or - as in the film - see them on shelves put up wherever they could. It sounds silly, but it was a heck of a logistic problem to solve with NYC real estate being so expensive.

That said, the very meticulous and image conscious Swiss Investment Bank I worked for paid for extra space (in its tower on Park Avenue!) and built out a wonderful storage area with very professional cabinets all clearly labeled, but American firms were like "where can we store all this sh*t and not spend more money on it?"


----------



## wacolo

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ oh man, that's a great collection of film... thanks! I will go through the whole thing when I have some time. One thing that hit me: notice how thin everyone is? and I mean everyone. Great "time machine" stuff.


I have become an unabashed YouTube slut. I would almost rather sit and watch random vids there than 95% of what comes on TV(outside of football season). I really feel one of the under appreciated aspects of YT is as a cultural reference. The fact that you can watch some random individuals home movies from say a 4th of July BBQ in 1983 is amazing to me. Or as in the above vid. I will fully admit to being fascinated by the everyday and mundane .


----------



## gamma68

Speaking of film footage, check out 0:40-0:43 in this Canadian Broadcasting Company National Film Board documentary about pianist Glenn Gould. Dates from 1959. There is brief footage of a man walking across a NYC street wearing what could be a seersucker suit with straw hat. Magnificent.










Here is the full documentary:


----------



## Cassadine

Joe Jr., Sr., and a young JFK--all looking scrubbed and spiffy.


----------



## Cassadine

A young John Houseman. Sui generis.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cassadine said:


> View attachment 21818
> 
> 
> A young John Houseman. Sui generis.


I'm wrong again. Apparently, he wasn't born 60 years old.


----------



## Cassadine

Fading Fast said:


> I'm wrong again. Apparently, he wasn't born 60 years old.












This is a pic of him in 1958. Very mature looking infant! LOL. I've always wondered what that sonorous voice sounded like when he was a schoolboy.


----------



## SG_67




----------



## Cassadine

SG_67 said:


> View attachment 21822


The man had a brutally unique style. Imitation is said to be the highest form of flattery. But if you imitated him you'd be inviting nothing but mockery, I think.


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Doctor Damage

Cassadine said:


> The man had a brutally unique style. Imitation is said to be the highest form of flattery. But if you imitated him you'd be inviting nothing but mockery, I think.


I'm with you on this, but nevertheless scores of men dress like that these days. It's all "too much" and better left to Wolfe in my view.


----------



## wilhelm00

Cassadine said:


> View attachment 21821
> 
> 
> This is a pic of him in 1958. Very mature looking infant! LOL. I've always wondered what that sonorous voice sounded like when he was a schoolboy.


He made his money the old-fashioned way, he eaarrnned it.

Loved those ads.


----------



## icky thump

gamma68 said:


> Serling, according to credits, wore Eagle Clothes. From time to time I see that clothier pop up on eBay. But I've not seen any items in person.


My grandfather worked for Eagle clothes. Stuff was dynamite. Kept and wore some of my dad's suits until I outgrew them. 
giphy.gif


----------



## Cassadine

wilhelm00 said:


> He made his money the old-fashioned way, he eaarrnned it.
> 
> Loved those ads.


Those ads were fantastic. And I've been entranced by his portrayal of Professor Keating in The Paper Chase since it came out.


----------



## SG_67

Cassadine said:


> Those ads were fantastic. And I've been entranced by his portrayal of Professor Keating in The Paper Chase since it came out.


Keating or Kingsfield?

He was the producer for Orson Welles' "War of the Worlds" broadcast. I always get a kick out of that.


----------



## Cassadine

SG_67 said:


> Keating or Kingsfield?
> 
> He was the producer for Orson Welles' "War of the Worlds" broadcast. I always get a kick out of that.


I stand corrected (hangs head in shame). I was thinking of Robin Williams brilliant performance as "Keating" in Dead Poets Society; I'd recently watched a comedy bit of Williams imitating John Houseman Reading the Phonebook.


----------



## Cassadine

Admiral John Poindexter wearing the tried and true Eastern Establishment uniform when testifying. Yes, he can locate your ISP.


----------



## Cassadine

President Calvin Coolidge and VP Herbert Hoover. When dignity mattered.


----------



## Cassadine

Silent Cal. Looking serious and seriously rocking some dress boots. I can't tell if they're plain toe or have a cap.


----------



## Doctor Damage

GHWB looking super relaxed.


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> GHWB looking super relaxed.


What a perfectly WASPy thing to do - casually drape your suit jacket across your desk. Spot on example of WASP insouciance toward clothes.


----------



## AldenPyle

Smarter people than me can write about his literary importance. But underated as a style icon.


----------



## 89826

"Smarter people than I", to start


----------



## SG_67

89826 said:


> "Smarter people than I", to start


Both "me" and "I" are considered acceptable.


----------



## Peak and Pine

SG_67 said:


> Both "me" and "I" are considered acceptable.


To you.


----------



## SG_67

Peak and Pine said:


> To you.


And to many others. Many who are smarter than me/I am.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Don't forget "myself"...


----------



## SG_67

Noam Chomsky.......linguist.


----------



## Fading Fast

SG_67 said:


> View attachment 22003
> Noam Chomsky.......linguist.


Man did those glasses have their day.


----------



## wilhelm00

SG_67 said:


> Keating or Kingsfield?
> 
> He was the producer for Orson Welles' "War of the Worlds" broadcast. I always get a kick out of that.


I remember having to read 250 pages for the first class, on the first day, of the first year of law school. Then you got called on and stood up and then stayed standing even if the professor moved on to somebody else. You sat down when he said you could sit down. All very Paper Chase. Some things just stick with you years later.


----------



## Fading Fast

wilhelm00 said:


> I remember having to read 250 pages for the first class, on the first day, of the first year of law school. Then you got called on and stood up and then stayed standing even if the professor moved on to somebody else. You sat down when he said you could sit down. All very Paper Chase. Some things just stick with you years later.


My freshman Economics 101 undergraduate course had a Kingsfield-like professor in that, several times every lecture, at a random moment, he'd call on a name from the 300+ class roster and ask that person a very pointed question either about the pre-assigned reading material or something he had covered in the present or one of the previous lectures.

If you got it right, he thanked you and continued the lecture, but if you got it wrong, he stayed with you asking more questions until you either got one right or until he opined that you had not read the material nor payed attention to the lecture. It was excruciating to watch him debone a student like a small chicken. And, if you didn't get one right, he left your name on the list for possible questioning the next lecture.


----------



## SG_67

wilhelm00 said:


> I remember having to read 250 pages for the first class, on the first day, of the first year of law school. Then you got called on and stood up and then stayed standing even if the professor moved on to somebody else. You sat down when he said you could sit down. All very Paper Chase. Some things just stick with you years later.


I had a good friend whose father was a Harvard Law grad. He confirmed the scene about the students running into the library and tearing out pages and hording them for the purpose of studying.

He didn't get it then, but quickly realized that it forced the formation of coalitions as well as negotiating and bargaining.


----------



## Fading Fast

SG_67 said:


> I had a good friend whose father was a Harvard Law grad. He confirmed the scene about the students running into the library and tearing out pages and hording them for the purpose of studying.
> 
> He didn't get it then, but quickly realized that it forced the formation of coalitions as well as negotiating and bargaining.


From the tragedy of the commons to the formation of a blackmarket.


----------



## Truth&Rights

wilhelm00 said:


> I remember having to read 250 pages for the first class, on the first day, of the first year of law school. Then you got called on and stood up and then stayed standing even if the professor moved on to somebody else. You sat down when he said you could sit down. All very Paper Chase. Some things just stick with you years later.





Fading Fast said:


> My freshman Economics 101 undergraduate course had a Kingsfield-like professor in that, several times every lecture, at a random moment, he'd call on a name from the 300+ class roster and ask that person a very pointed question either about the pre-assigned reading material or something he had covered in the present or one of the previous lectures.
> 
> If you got it right, he thanked you and continued the lecture, but if you got it wrong, he stayed with you asking more questions until you either got one right or until he opined that you had not read the material nor payed attention to the lecture. It was excruciating to watch him debone a student like a small chicken. And, if you didn't get one right, he left your name on the list for possible questioning the next lecture.


Graduated from law school in the aftermath of the financial crisis. I can confirm that profs like that still existed even then. Even the less socratic profs could turn on you in an instant. Whenever that happened another student would try to chime in and get the prof to let up on the student being grilled but some would just continue on. Of course, none of this mattered that much because grading was almost solely based on a four hour end of semester exam. It was basically meant to bury you under (often useless) reading and play games with students. After the first semester grades came back, most figured that out and would adjust their studying strategies accordingly.

Re: tearing pages out of books, never saw that. However, laptop theft on campus (even at one of the top schools in the country) was a pretty common occurrence and word was the culprit was usually a fellow student. I also saw a couple instances where someone had taken a stolen backpack and dumped the contents (usually containing handwritten notes or even a casebook or supplement) into the toilets. Even without all this behavior, competition was baked in due to the forced curve.


----------



## Doctor Damage

looks like Bean moccs (sans socks)


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> Man did those glasses have their day.


Dated? Or timeless?

I like 'em, myself.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> Dated? Or timeless?
> 
> I like 'em, myself.


Tough call. To me timeless, but the real issue is are they "acceptable" even when not in fashion?

For example, I'd say tortoise shell and simple wireframe glasses are timeless in the sense that even when they aren't in fashion at the moment (tortoise seems to be in and wireframes are out right now), they are still acceptable to / not the butt of jokes in the general public (the fashionistas always make fun of everything not of the moment).

I wonder what response Chomsky's frame wearers today receive from the general public. For me, they are classics (my dad wore the all-black version of them his entire adult life), but I don't know if they have transcended their period of popularity to become always-acceptable classics.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> Tough call. To me timeless, but the real issue is are they "acceptable" even when not in fashion?
> 
> For example, I'd say tortoise shell and simple wireframe glasses are timeless in the sense that even when they aren't in fashion at the moment (tortoise seems to be in and wireframes are out right now), they are still acceptable to / not the butt of jokes in the general public (the fashionistas always make fun of everything not of the moment).
> 
> I wonder what response Chomsky's frame wearers today receive from the general public. For me, they are classics (my dad wore the all-black version of them his entire adult life), but I don't know if they have transcended their period of popularity to become always-acceptable classics.


It seems like everyone's dad wore those style frames at one time or another.

I find that as I further push my sartorial limits, the less I care about whether or not the general public find my clothing choices acceptable. If something's really out of style in a horribly dated way, then I'd likely avoid it. I don't think Chomsky's frames necessarily fall into that category. I'll have to take a peek at the Ben Silver catalog to see if they currently carry something in that style.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> It seems like everyone's dad wore those style frames at one time or another.
> 
> I find that as I further push my sartorial limits, the less I care about whether or not the general public find my clothing choices acceptable. If something's really out of style in a horribly dated way, then I'd likely avoid it. I don't think Chomsky's frames necessarily fall into that category. I'll have to take a peek at the Ben Silver catalog to see if they currently carry something in that style.


It's a balance most of us on the trad side try to strike in some way. Chinos and a navy polo shirt are easy, but white bucks or fair isles need more finessing and thought.


----------



## Cassadine

89826 said:


> "Smarter people than I", to start


That's rich!


----------



## SG_67

Fading Fast said:


> Tough call. To me timeless, but the real issue is are they "acceptable" even when not in fashion?
> 
> For example, I'd say tortoise shell and simple wireframe glasses are timeless in the sense that even when they aren't in fashion at the moment (tortoise seems to be in and wireframes are out right now), they are still acceptable to / not the butt of jokes in the general public (the fashionistas always make fun of everything not of the moment).
> 
> I wonder what response Chomsky's frame wearers today receive from the general public. For me, they are classics (my dad wore the all-black version of them his entire adult life), but I don't know if they have transcended their period of popularity to become always-acceptable classics.


I think they're classic too.

The funny thing is that most of us of a certain age would be perfectly comfortable wearing them and the younger hipsters would view it as a cool, vintage look.


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


>


That is a collar roll that just keeps rolling.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> That is a collar roll that just keeps rolling.


ha ha, that's a great way of describing a button down collar!


----------



## wacolo




----------



## wilhelm00

Truth&Rights said:


> Graduated from law school in the aftermath of the financial crisis. I can confirm that profs like that still existed even then. Even the less socratic profs could turn on you in an instant. Whenever that happened another student would try to chime in and get the prof to let up on the student being grilled but some would just continue on. Of course, none of this mattered that much because grading was almost solely based on a four hour end of semester exam. It was basically meant to bury you under (often useless) reading and play games with students. After the first semester grades came back, most figured that out and would adjust their studying strategies accordingly.
> 
> Re: tearing pages out of books, never saw that. However, laptop theft on campus (even at one of the top schools in the country) was a pretty common occurrence and word was the culprit was usually a fellow student. I also saw a couple instances where someone had taken a stolen backpack and dumped the contents (usually containing handwritten notes or even a casebook or supplement) into the toilets. Even without all this behavior, competition was baked in due to the forced curve.


Ah - the fatal "law school teaches you how to think like a lawyer" concept. I so didn't want to do this for a living, but here I am and the years slip away. On the plus side, I don't drink nearly as much as I did back then, so things are looking up.

And I can afford to buy Trad clothes. That's good, too.


----------



## Doctor Damage

David Frum in 1987.


----------



## TheStat

Guy Lewis


----------



## wacolo




----------



## Doctor Damage

^ That U of Penn promotional film is fantastic stuff, it's a time machine. Everyone here should watch it. Thanks for posting!!


----------



## TimF

Perhaps the richest Trad dresser?


----------



## wacolo




----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Doctor Damage

source: https://bdhs1982.blogspot.com/2014/11/bdhs-class-1982-games-of-1982-preppy.html


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's one for Patrick: the third-floor newsroom at The New York Times in 1983.


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> Here's one for Patrick: the third-floor newsroom at The New York Times in 1983.


Cool pic and two thoughts.

One, the guy standing in the dark rust-colored sweater is, assuming he's wearing a tie underneath, wearing it the "right way" based on a few articles I've read about Shetlands and ties from the Ivy era. Supposedly, the sweater collar was supposed to "cover" or nearly cover the tie that way. (One of the articles: https://www.ivy-style.com/secrets-of-sprezzatura-how-to-wear-a-crewneck.html)

Proving my pedestrian background, when I was young and wore Shetlands with ties, I always had the tie knot show over the collar as that looked right to my uneducated eye (sigh - the ignorance of youth and poor breeding).

Two, is that a chain on the back of the TV to prevent theft? If so, holy cow, it's hard to remember that there was a time when a big bulky TV had any value let alone enough to make the effort to secure it against pilfering seem worthwhile.


----------



## Doctor Damage

[url=https://postimg.cc/image/8ij4xxnp3/]


----------



## wilhelm00

Do you like mid-century fashion? Do you like cool spies (esp. RV)? Do you like Leonard Cohen? Well - here you go (credit to the OP).


----------



## FiscalDean

From the movie "Will success spoil Rock Hunter?" I watched this movie yesterday and quite enjoyed it. Brooks Brothers and gray flannel mentioned several times. Most male characters wore some pretty trad items.


----------



## HerrDavid

James Ivory


----------



## gamma68

Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, today:


----------



## Semper Jeep

Fading Fast said:


> Cool pic and two thoughts.
> 
> One, the guy standing in the dark rust-colored sweater is, assuming he's wearing a tie underneath, wearing it the "right way" based on a few articles I've read about Shetlands and ties from the Ivy era. Supposedly, the sweater collar was supposed to "cover" or nearly cover the tie that way. (One of the articles: https://www.ivy-style.com/secrets-of-sprezzatura-how-to-wear-a-crewneck.html)
> 
> Proving my pedestrian background, when I was young and wore Shetlands with ties, I always had the tie knot show over the collar as that looked right to my uneducated eye (sigh - the ignorance of youth and poor breeding).
> 
> Two, is that a chain on the back of the TV to prevent theft? If so, holy cow, it's hard to remember that there was a time when a big bulky TV had any value let alone enough to make the effort to secure it against pilfering seem worthwhile.


FF - I know your post is a few months old, but regarding the chain on the TV: I wouldn't be surprised if that TV is on a mobile cart to make it possible to move around the office for whoever needs it to be able to review recordings. I would imagine that the chain is there primarily to secure the TV to the cart so it doesn't fall off while being pushed around the building.


----------



## wacolo




----------



## wacolo

Whit Stillman


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ great photo of Stillman, that's basically how I dress all winter


----------



## gamma68

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ great photo of Stillman, that's basically how I dress all winter


Pics or it never happens.


----------



## Doctor Damage

gamma68 said:


> Pics or it never happens.


Not even photos will convince you it's a Durable, so why would photos convince you here? LOLOL


----------



## dukekook

Daniel Patrick Moynihan - That is where the third button should be; also rockin' the butterfly.


----------



## New Old Stock

Robert Wadlow, who stood at 8'-11'', in what I can only assume is the largest sack suit ever made...


----------



## Doctor Damage

Prince Charles doesn't wear Ivy League clothes but I think this is a useful photo to study nonetheless.


----------



## AldenPyle

End of an Era


----------



## eagle2250

^^
...a sad reality, for sure.


----------



## Oldsport

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> ...a sad reality, for sure.


Very sad indeed. Not how I wanted my morning to start...


----------



## FiscalDean

Truly a life well lived.


----------



## Patrick06790

Doctor Damage said:


> Here's one for Patrick: the third-floor newsroom at The New York Times in 1983.


Catching up here. I like the chained-down TV.

Here's a quote from Jimmy Breslin:

"I busted out of the place in a hurry and went to a saloon and drank beer and said that for the rest of my life I'd never take a job in a place where you couldn't throw cigarette butts on the floor. I was hooked on this writing for newspapers and magazines."

Of course Breslin never worked for the Times. They would have made him throw his butts in a spittoon.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Here's a photo I randomly found while searching for something else... these men are from a US firm. Some great traditional, conservative style on display.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jeff Daniels as Atticus Finch


----------



## eagle2250

^^ Memorable performance, perhaps, but Gregory Peck was so good in that role that it will be his throughout eternity!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^ Memorable performance, perhaps, but Gregory Peck was so good in that role that it will be his throughout eternity!


Plus - and now hold on 'cause this is big - where is the seersucker suit?






















"He didn't wear a seersucker suit in the revival" Peck's response ⇧


----------



## AldenPyle

^It seems like old movies are going to need to be colorized if they are going to survive beyond our generation. I wonder how hard it is to colorize seersucker.



eagle2250 said:


> ^^ Memorable performance, perhaps, but Gregory Peck was so good in that role that it will be his throughout eternity!


True, though I suspect "Mockingbird" might have a real impact as a play.


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> ^It seems like old movies are going to need to be colorized if they are going to survive beyond our generation....


You are probably right, but it's such a sad thought as there is so much richness in so many well-done B&W movies.


----------



## Dr.Watson

Richard Hampton Jenrette, founder of the Classical American Homes Preservation Trust.


----------



## TimF

Doctor Damage said:


> Here's a photo I randomly found while searching for something else... these men are from a US firm. Some great traditional, conservative style on display.


Good choices of clothing. Can't really tell if they're high quality. Terrible fits.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Dr.Watson said:


> Richard Hampton Jenrette, founder of the Classical American Homes Preservation Trust.
> 
> View attachment 26926


larger version


----------



## Doctor Damage

TimF said:


> Good choices of clothing. Can't really tell if they're high quality. Terrible fits.


The fit is very much on target for the Trad Forum. I think you might be in the wrong forum... I suggest the Fashion Forum on this site, or StyleForum.net.


----------



## TimF

Doctor Damage said:


> The fit is very much on target for the Trad Forum. I think you might be in the wrong forum... I suggest the Fashion Forum on this site, or StyleForum.net.


Very touchy apparently. So you think the extra-full break, jacket hem lower than fingertips, long ties going past the belt buckles are all in line with this forum?

To my eye, the first 3 gentlemen from the left are well-dressed. Although #1 and 3 could shorten their pants a bit.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Dietmar Schönherr, actor.


----------



## AldenPyle

Sociologist Nathan Glazer RIP


----------



## Dr.Watson

Bill Weld has been mentioned here before, but I happened to recognize the specific tie he is wearing in this picture as one from J. Press. It is somewhat washed out, but he is also wearing a university stripe oxford.


----------



## Doctor Damage

(click for larger image)


----------



## AldenPyle

Charles McCarry


----------



## Doctor Damage

some tremendous penny loafers here on Ranulph Fiennes


----------



## AJP

John Bolton: see link for good article on Bolton
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...olton-trump-national-security-adviser/583246/


----------



## TimF

AJP said:


> View attachment 29101
> John Bolton: see link for good article on Bolton
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...olton-trump-national-security-adviser/583246/


A lively discussion on the authenticity of Mr. Bolton's dress.
https://www.ivy-style.com/i-mustache-you-a-question-where-do-you-get-your-shirts.html


----------



## Doctor Damage

AJP said:


> View attachment 29101
> John Bolton: see link for good article on Bolton
> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...olton-trump-national-security-adviser/583246/


Although I'm not a moderator and can't enforce my views, I'd rather we didn't post links to articles about politics, especially not to members of the current administration, none of whom are 'trad' in any way.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tod Hackett said:


> James Lafayette Dickey, United States Poet Laureate and Sheriff Bullard -
> 
> View attachment 29237


Great pic and love the sweater. What's going on, though, with the sweater's sleeve - is that line running down it from being creased during storage or some odd dry cleaner event?


----------



## Fading Fast

Tod Hackett said:


> A careful study of the photo leads me to conclude that the sweater in question has been, in fact, _pressed. _And I thought my dry cleansers were incompetents...


It's the type of thing that will happen as some dry cleaners are completely clueless, but also, very defensive when you, politely, point out something they did wrong. It is rare when the first response from the dry cleaner isn't defensive versus being apologetic.

Any idea what the thing with the metal arm is on the left side of the pic? I feel like I should know what it is and will feel silly when I'm told.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tod Hackett said:


> They are all like that. Every. Damn. One....


Most business models today are "surface" nice and usually defer to a reasonable customer, but dry cleaners are a throwback to a combative approach to retail. It's odd that the model hasn't evolved to the current norms.



Tod Hackett said:


> ...Photo analysis is inconclusive - caffeine levels inadequate. Speculation: an inoperative and partially disassembled typewriter.


Good call, I thought it looked like one, but didn't make the jump to disassembled one.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tod Hackett said:


> Given how cloyingly insincere today's "surface nice" (well put!) business model is, I almost miss the old gruff and combative one. At least it, from time to time, allowed for the formation of mutually satisfactory, long-term relationships based on grudging respect where, paradoxically, one never had to worry about outcomes. Think cobblers, mechanics, tailors, etc. etc....
> 
> The folks at the font-end of "surface-nice" never seem to give off that air of arrogant competency those guys did so one always worries if one is getting what one is paying for.
> 
> I still loath most dry cleaners though (only ever had three good ones) - they are a special breed of button-breaking, miss-pressing, yellowing, pilling, miserable jack-ass mules.


Growing up in the '60s/'70s there were a lot of those gruff/combative tradesmen, small business owners and craftsmen still around. They built their businesses on quality and honesty, while basically saying to their customers, "take me on my terms or find someone else to repair your shoe, sell you quality meat, fix your electrical problem."

Once you understood the "model," it worked very well. The guy (and, in my experience, it was always a guy, but I'm sure there were women practitioners as well) all but grumbled at you when, for example, you brought your shoe in for repair, would laconically tell you what you needed (which was almost always spot on even if you didn't think so initially), gave you a "ticket," which could be almost anything and was indecipherable to you, and told you when to come back for it.

In most cases, it was ready on time, the work beautifully done and the price reasonable, but if you asked too many questions, he quickly got annoyed with you. It was the opposite of "surface nice," but it had more integrity than all the unctuous and scripted "customer service" we face today. There were many variations on the model, but the basic construct was quality work, fair price and a take-it-or-leave-it approach to the customer.

However, as you note, I never experienced this model in a dry cleaning establishment. Some have been okay - though none take great pride in their work and none would be called craftsmen - but they have all been defensive and rarely willing to admit a mistake. By contrast, the gruff craftsman, while he only infrequently made a mistake, when he did, he would immediately admit it, fix it right, not charge you more and show a very small amount of contrition, which went a long way as you knew he meant it.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^^ Excellent short essay!


----------



## Doctor Damage

Tim O'Donovan, a British guy who has been keeping records of all the events the Royal family does. I like the necktie splayed all over the place. He managed to be well-dressed yet look shabby at the same time!


----------



## Dr.Watson




----------



## MikeF

Doctor Damage said:


> Tim O'Donovan, a British guy who has been keeping records of all the events the Royal family does. I like the necktie splayed all over the place. He managed to be well-dressed yet look shabby at the same time!
> 
> View attachment 29489


I would love to have an office that looked like that, comfortable lived-in and just the right hint of clutter.


----------



## eagle2250

^^I agree with your assessment that Tim O'Donovan's office makes for a great photograph, but find myself wondering what more would it take for you to conclude the subject to be a hoarder? :icon_scratch: LOL.


----------



## MikeF

^I prefer to think of it as keeping the things he needs close to hand among the mementos of a long, distinguished career. Hoarding would be more disorderly.


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> View attachment 29821


That's a great shot and one I hadn't seen before of RR. Overall, Reagan's dress was very of-his-time American but not East Coast Ivy. Yes, of course, he wore some clothes the overlapped with Ivy, but on the whole, he had more of a California and middle-of-the-country sense of style.


----------



## Dr.Watson

It seems former Justice Souter has a fondness for 3/2 tweed jackets (his "work" suits seem to be mostly 2 button). I particularly like the last suit.


----------



## DapperAndy

Dr.Watson said:


> View attachment 30305
> View attachment 30304
> 
> View attachment 30306
> 
> It seems former Justice Souter has a fondness for 3/2 tweed jackets (his "work" suits seem to be mostly 2 button). I particularly like the last suit.


He pairs his combos up well. Especially with the last suit, watch, shirt, tie.


----------



## Reddington

Mayor Joe Riley of Charleston. Was one of the longest serving mayors until his retirement in 2016. He's still active and as timeless as always. 








































Yeah, that's Bill Murray.


----------



## DapperAndy

The Mayor has excellent taste in ties!


----------



## Kennedy Jr. Jr.

Mayor Riley on Firing Line:


----------



## rl1856

Mayor Riley is a client of Brooks and Ben Silver.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The postman brought me my new Ben Silver catalogue this afternoon. Browsing through it provided 20 or so minutes of unanticipated pleasure. Now I must get over the sticker shock.


----------



## Doctor Damage

eagle2250 said:


> The postman brought me my new Ben Silver catalogue this afternoon. Browsing through it provided 20 or so minutes of unanticipated pleasure.


But if you didn't order anything then it's fair to say that 20 minutes of pleasure didn't have a "happy ending?"


----------



## eagle2250

^^Well....that remains to be seen.
They have a pair of Crockett and Jones Wingtip Slip-on's (The Petersham design), still under consideration.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Jack Beatty in 1989.


----------



## Doctor Damage

BB OCBD


----------



## wacolo

Dartmouth 1951


----------



## wacolo

Dartmouth 1959


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ Amazing time machine photos wacolo, thanks for finding and posting!!


----------



## Fading Fast

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Amazing time machine photos wacolo, thanks for finding and posting!!


Agreed completely - great pics. I would note that the guy on the far left in the second pic might be taking the "scuffing" of his white bucks a bit too far.


----------



## Corcovado

_high-res version: https://www.kyphotoarchive.com/2017/11/07/actor-desi-arnaz-at-keeneland-sales-1963/

_
_Actor Desi Arnaz and his wife, Edith Eyre Hirsch, during the Keeneland fall breeding sale, Nov. 11, 1963. Arnaz, best known for his role as Ricky Ricardo on the TV series sitcom "I Love Lucy," paid $66,000 (about $525,000 adjusted for inflation) for a broodmare, the highest price paid during the five-day sale. He owned the 45-acre Corona Breeding Farm in Corona, Calif., and he raced Thoroughbreds. Two weeks later, the actor paid the top price, $32,000, for a two-year-old filly at a Thoroughbred sale at Belmont Park. Hirsch was Arnaz's second wife. He previously had been married to "I Love Lucy" co-star Lucille Ball for 20 years. His breeding business was dissolved and the farm sold in the 1970s. The 20th annual Keeneland fall breeding stock sale closed with 842 offerings being auctioned for nearly $3.9 million (nearly $31 million adjusted for inflation). Last year's November breeding stock sale at Keeneland had gross sales of $215 million. The 2017 breeding sale begins Nov. 7. Published Nov. 17, 1963, in the Sunday Herald-Leader. Herald-Leader Archive Photo_​


----------



## wacolo

Doctor Damage said:


> ^ Amazing time machine photos wacolo, thanks for finding and posting!!


It was my pleasure. I have been plowing through the Dartmouth archives for the last few days. If anyone would like to snoop around here is the link.

https://libarchive.dartmouth.edu/cdm/search/collection/photofiles

You can search by date or keyword. I think I will check other schools to see if they have similar archives. In the meantime here are a couple more.

1961


----------



## Corcovado

From wacolo's link:








Class of 1955, Dartmouth reunion 1980 I believe.

caption: https://libarchive.dartmouth.edu/cdm/ref/collection/photofiles/id/45778


----------



## Corcovado

The Dartmouth photos are high-res so you can zoom in and see some interesting details. These guys on the rowing crew, for example, in the days before ubiquitous athletic gear. One is wearing boots, another moccasins with wrap soles.


----------



## Corcovado

Mathematics faculty, Dartmouth circa 1953.


----------



## wacolo

Yale 1962









Penn 1963


----------



## Corcovado

Author Robert Ludlum, b. 5/25/1927


----------



## eagle2250

^^ I for one, am a big fan of his novels! :happy:


----------



## Corcovado

Hungarian-American physicist and all around genius John von Neumann.

"Young man, in mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to them."


----------



## Fading Fast

And on the subject of authors you enjoy, recently deceased Herman Wouk (May 27, 1915 - May 17, 2019):










And looking like an extra in the "Sweet Smell of Success:"


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## 89826

Doctor Damage said:


> View attachment 31480


Who is that?


----------



## Corcovado

89826 said:


> Who is that?


That is Alexander Von Auersperg, stepson of Claus Von Bulow.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...murder-mystery-unsolved-crime-sunny-von-bulow


----------



## AldenPyle

Evacuating U.S. embassy at Phnom Penh 1975


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The photo in the post above (#3927) caused a lump to form in my throat...a terribly sad moment in this Nation's history.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Lacoste in 1986, or maybe a copycat shirt since it's got three buttons. Any old timers know?


----------



## 89826

No, that's real. Notice the different collar.


----------



## Doctor Damage

1966


----------



## SG_67

Tod Hackett said:


> Hopefully revitalizing this thread a bit with another "not one of the usual suspects" find -
> 
> Sam Waterston from "Interview Magazine", 1981
> 
> View attachment 32583


If I'm not mistaken, he was born in Cambridge and graduated from Yale, so that whole look is probably as natural to him as can be.


----------



## SG_67

Tod Hackett said:


> Thanks. I did not know that at all.
> 
> In fact, to the extent that it ever even crossed my mind, I'd have pegged him for NYC or NYC burbs (Westchester?) based on the few glimpses I've caught of him in his TV roles in the 90s...


Yeah, he's quite the blue blood. Great actor! I think The Killing Fields was the first thing I ever saw him in. I saw Gatsby later.


----------



## SG_67

Tod Hackett said:


> Yet another film I need to revisit...
> 
> Historical Trad - Robert K Massie
> 
> View attachment 32601
> 
> 
> View attachment 32603
> 
> 
> Same rig, 5-10 years apart...


Is that the same Massie who wrote "Castles of Steel" and "Dreadnought"?


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Great pin collar - love the short points. I use to have several tab collars like that, but never a pin. It's a lot to get accomplished in a small space. 

Re Ms. Weld, can't image they were that comfortable, but what a visual impact long gloves like those have.


----------



## Doctor Damage

wow Dennis Hopper... for some reason I always forget he came from a pretty old generation


----------



## Fading Fast

Tod Hackett said:


> I've wanted a pin-collar like that for - oh, I don't know - thirty years? Problem is that I need to somehow remember to actually _look _for one...
> 
> I seem to recall reading when I was a child a memoir by a WWII fighter pilot who wore silk debutante gloves under his flight gauntlets for comfort. Wish I could remember more...


The last time I bought a shirt like that - very short points, but it was a tab not pin collar - was in the '80s from the old Abercrombie and Fitch. Haven't seen one since.


----------



## eagle2250

Tod Hackett said:


> I've wanted a pin-collar like that for - oh, I don't know - thirty years? Problem is that I need to somehow remember to actually _look _for one...
> 
> I seem to recall reading when I was a child a memoir by a WWII fighter pilot who wore silk debutante gloves under his flight gauntlets for comfort. Wish I could remember more...


In my day, post WW II and Korea, the gloves were leather palmed nomex, "debutante designed" lovelies that went well with our nomex flight suits. After being determined no longer serviceable for flight duty, the gloves could be used when working on one's car if the engine components were still hot, but they wore out very quickly under those conditions! I suppose if I were to get and take to wearing a pair of those silk debutante gloves you mention, I might be giving SWMBO one more reason to roll her eyes at me?


----------



## Fading Fast

Just posted a review of a Tab Hunter documentary I saw recently over in the TV thread. The man dressed as Trad as they come.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tod Hackett said:


> Trying to inject a little life into one of the most important threads on here this afternoon...
> 
> I know that I have posted about Charles Gatewood and "Wall Street" before and while I certainly cannot recommend much of his other work in any way, "Wall Street" is simply genius.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Gatewood
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Wall-Street-Charles-Gatewood/dp/B002B3QCME/ref=sr_1_22?qid=1566080386&refinements=p_27:Charles+Gatewood&s=books&sr=1-22&text=Charles+Gatewood
> 
> Two more from "Wall Street" -
> 
> View attachment 33732
> 
> 
> Not that purely Trad but the bucks and their - ah -"purity", given the realities of early 1970s NYC, are simply amazing.
> 
> "White Shoe Firm" indeed...


My vote for the best Ivy "thing" lost is wearing white bucks with suits or grey flannels or trousers anytime of year.

I pine for a world where this is a normal outfit:









*Editor's Note:* A Warning to Fading Fast. You have posted that picture well over a hundred times in your seven years as a member of AAAC. We have indulged you enough - we'll let this one go, but if you post that picture again, we will take disciplinary action up to and including the possible suspension of your account. (Please be aware - as we will take this into consideration should a disciplinary hearing be necessary: several member - unsolicited - have written in asking us to rescind your membership.)


----------



## Doctor Damage

Lots of great 1980s fashions in this video.


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL. I am not a snarky guy, but....those videos need Direction!
As one who was never seen or thought to be a smooth operator, I feel compelled to report...those guys were really pathetic.


----------



## Corcovado

I see a similarity between the young Tab Hunter and the actor Ryan Philippe.

Anyway, here is a photo archive that is probably good for finding some interesting photos. It isn't exactly the era we talk about as "trad" as it's limited to 1935-45 but there are still some good photos to be found.

https://photogrammar.yale.edu/map/
I haven't thoroughly explored it myself but here are a few:

Caption: "Students during change of classes, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, North Carolina." November 1939. Photo by Marion Post Wolcott.


----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine

A very young Donald Rumsfeld


----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine

Irving Berlin and Al Jolson


----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine

President Kennedy


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## AldenPyle

Jewel thieves Allan Kuhn and Jack "Murph the Surf" Murphy, 1964


----------



## Dr.Watson

From the 1963 University of South Carolina yearbook, the _Garnet & Black_.


----------



## eagle2250

Dr.Watson said:


> From the 1963 University of South Carolina yearbook, the _Garnet & Black_.
> View attachment 36318
> View attachment 36319
> View attachment 36320
> View attachment 36321


Indeed. just a few of the unplanned rewards of making memories! As that old saying tells us, "we just don't know what we've got till it's gone."


----------



## Doctor Damage

Pat Sajak!


----------



## eagle2250

^^ LOL,
Pat needs to have our President give him some lessons on how to tie a tie! 😄


----------



## Corcovado

eagle2250 said:


> ^^ LOL,
> Pat needs to have our President give him some lessons on how to tie a tie! 😄


I think the two of them need to work out the average between their respective tie lengths and aim for that.


----------



## Dr.Watson

Walker Percy has been mentioned before, but not these particular pictures to my knowledge.








What looks to be a reversible raincoat/overcoat not unlike those still sold by J. Press.
















These military looking shirts show up on Southern men Percy's age during the 1970s and 
1980s.























Adding this to show off his suede saddle oxfords.









He was wearing saddle oxfords from an early age (interesting striped socks as well). That is Shelby Foote on the other chair. 








Blucher mocs. 








Either a surcingle or braided belt.









3/2 sack poplin


----------



## Doctor Damage

Dr.Watson said:


> What looks to be a reversible raincoat/overcoat not unlike those still sold by J. Press.


Those were quite common 'back in the day'. At some point they more or less vanished, oddly.


----------



## DaveTrader

Don't know if this was posted previously, but came across this one of Lee Iacocca in a sack.


----------



## Doctor Damage

^ That's a most excellent photo of Iacocca, it really shows the simple smooth lines of suits the period. No rumpled or ill-fitting nonsense. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Doctor Damage

This photo isn't really trad, but it's fun.


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Doctor Damage said:


> This photo isn't really trad, but it's fun.
> 
> View attachment 38390


That picture was from an edition of Rolling Stone in which they sent Hunter S. Thompson and P.J. O'Rourke to interview Clinton when Clinton was a candidate (1992?). I remember the Thompson piece being hilarious.


----------



## Cassadine

Doctor Damage said:


> This photo isn't really trad, but it's fun.
> 
> View attachment 38390


That's quite the party, right there.


----------



## wilhelm00

AldenPyle said:


> Edsel's lapels look pretty 30's-ish.
> 
> William Clay Ford and the Lions did seem to be a case of nice guys finish last. People seemed to like and respect him, but he probably never put enough pressure on the organization to win.


Well, this is a Trad forum, so now the state of Lions football is now a tradition. 😉 Although, they are closer to .500 on Thanksgiving than I anticipated. Still, would be good for football if they could stop losing with such regularity.


----------



## Doctor Damage

nice bd shirt (not bd'ed)
RIP one of the greats


----------



## Patrick06790

Hmmm. I dress like O'Rourke but sometimes I write a little like Thompson.

That's William Greider far left and Jann Wenner next to Thompson



Doctor Damage said:


> This photo isn't really trad, but it's fun.
> 
> View attachment 38390


----------



## Doctor Damage

John Murray


----------



## Doctor Damage

Errol Flynn... pleats but whatever, a very 'trad' image


----------



## Dr.Watson

Journalist Thomas Byrne Edsall.


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Dr.Watson

I posted some Walker Percy pictures a while back; here are some of his friend and fellow author, Shelby Foote. Foote did not dress as reliably "Ivy League" as the aristocratic Percy (there are some pictures of him wearing loud 70s type things), but he overall tended towards more traditional clothes.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 43062


I'm drawing a blank here @Oldsarge. Who might this young chap be?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I'm drawing a blank here @Oldsarge. Who might this young chap be?


Based on the furniture and rug, I'm guessing a young @Mr. B. Scott Robinson .


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Based on the furniture and rug, I'm guessing a young @Mr. B. Scott Robinson .


If that is correct, I suppose @Oldsarge and @bsr must go back a long way.


----------



## Oldsarge

Who us?


----------



## Doctor Damage

General Westmoreland, late in life.


----------



## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> General Westmoreland, late in life.
> 
> View attachment 45106


A great man, who was served a 'shit hand' of cards to play in Vietnam, by the politicos he had the misfortune of working for! Just my opinion...not looking for a debate.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Wallace Stegner


----------



## Doctor Damage

Joe B commuting... there's no outerwear quite like a basic single-breasted raincoat, so simple and yet hard to get just right


----------



## Oldsarge

_Sigh!_ Does _anyone _dress like this anymore?


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 46707
> 
> 
> _Sigh!_ Does _anyone _dress like this anymore?


Did you cross post to the Vespa thread? 

Up until the '90s, I'd say that kid's look was a very well-done version of a lot of young men's (and, really, men of all ages) go-to not-wearing-a-suit "dress up" outfit.

My parents knew next to nothing about men's clothing and we lived in lower-to-middle-income town, but growing up in the '70s, every year, my mom took me to Robert Hall (an early discount warehouse-style mens and boys clothing store) to get a navy blazer, grey dress trousers and a dress shirt so that I had a "nice" outfit for "dress-up" occasions (weddings, funerals, relatives coming over or dinner out at something above a pizza parlor).

And almost all the boys in the neighborhood had that same one "dress-up" outfit. Even as an adult, as just noted, way into the '90s, it was still a pretty standard men's outfit for "nice" events that didn't call for a suit.

Now, most of those "nice" events don't even call for a sport coat and dress trousers. But when someone tries; often times (unless they are a fan of clothes), they wear some not-well-tailored sport coat (navy or not) and maybe/maybe not dress trousers that don't really work as I think men (especially under 40) are just losing the knowledge of how to dress.

In a way, that basic formula - navy blazer, grey trousers, white or blue shirt and tie - was a safe way for boys and men who didn't know about clothes to "dress up."


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Did you cross post to the Vespa thread?
> 
> Up until the '90s, I'd say that kid's look was a very well-done version of a lot of young men's (and, really, men of all ages) go-to not-wearing-a-suit "dress up" outfit.
> 
> My parents knew next to nothing about men's clothing and we lived in lower-to-middle-income town, but growing up in the '70s, every year, my mom took me to Robert Hall (an early discount warehouse-style mens and boys clothing store) to get a navy blazer, grey dress trousers and a dress shirt so that I had a "nice" outfit for "dress-up" occasions (weddings, funerals, relatives coming over or dinner out at something above a pizza parlor).
> 
> And almost all the boys in the neighborhood had that same one "dress-up" outfit. Even as an adult, as just noted, way into the '90s, it was still a pretty standard men's outfit for "nice" events that didn't call for a suit.
> 
> Now, most of those "nice" events don't even call for a sport coat and dress trousers. But when someone tries; often times (unless they are a fan of clothes), they wear some not-well-tailored sport coat (navy or not) and maybe/maybe not dress trousers that don't really work as I think men (especially under 40) are just losing the knowledge of how to dress.
> 
> In a way, that basic formula - navy blazer, grey trousers, white or blue shirt and tie - was a safe way for boys and men who didn't know about clothes to "dress up."


All of this makes good sense, and I find it surprising (and touching in some ways) that in America, it is the _women_ -- mothers first, then girlfriends and wives -- who take on the responsibility of dressing their children, and even their husbands. Having been raised in a different culture, where fathers took on this responsibility to teach their children, especially the boys, how to dress, I was amazed that paternal interest in dressing at least their young sons was simply absent. LOL, no one in this country would think twice about a woman shopping in the male clothing section of a store, but if a man were to shop in the woman's section, a few eyebrows might well be raised!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> All of this makes good sense, and I find it surprising (and touching in some ways) that in America, it is the _women_ -- mothers first, then girlfriends and wives -- who take on the responsibility of dressing their children, and even their husbands. Having been raised in a different culture, where fathers took on this responsibility to teach their children, especially the boys, how to dress, I was amazed that paternal interest in dressing at least their young sons was simply absent. LOL, no one in this country would think twice about a woman shopping in the male clothing section of a store, but if a man were to shop in the woman's section, a few eyebrows might well be raised!


As you note, cultural differences. I've read many posts and stories about fathers in America taking their sons to Brooks Brothers or similar stores and "educating" them in the ways of dressing, but in my lower-to-middle-class town, moms took their sons to discount stores (and the Army Navy shop) and bought them clothes.

I have no memories of my dad taking me shopping or teaching me about clothes other than an off-hand generic comment at most, like, "you'll need a sport coat for the funeral today." He was not much on explanations for anything.

I have a feeling the Brooks-Brothers going father-son combo was a different subculture.


----------



## Doctor Damage

Bernard Bailyn


----------



## Retired EE

From my grandfather's 1920 West Point yearbook-- a young MacArthur (West Point superintendent) with trad trendsetter the Duke of Windsor; also an advertisement from a yearbook sponsor in the back of the yearbook:


----------



## drpeter

Retired EE said:


> From my grandfather's 1920 West Point yearbook-- a young MacArthur (West Point superintendent) with trad trendsetter the Duke of Windsor; also an advertisement from a yearbook sponsor in the back of the yearbook:
> 
> View attachment 49353
> View attachment 49354


Great photographs! Isn't leggings (in the advert) spelled with a "g" or is it American variant spelling?


----------



## Retired EE

drpeter said:


> Great photographs! Isn't leggings (in the advert) spelled with a "g" or is it American variant spelling?


Dusting off my hardcopy of "Webster's Third New International Dictionary", legging or leggin can both be used and are defined as the same.

There was another unusual word-- "Spoony", which was used in the 2nd advertisement. Webster's doesn't have a definition that connects with men's clothing fashion. It may have been youthful vernacular during that time period. (Input from others would be appreciated on defining "Spoony".)

On a different subject, World War I would have ended about a year and a half before these photographs were taken. Looking closely at the 2nd photo (Duke of Windsor standing near MacArthur), it seems that the two officers standing to the left appear to show in their faces the effects of the war (weariness, tiredness?).


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Charles Dana

Retired EE said:


> There was another unusual word-- "Spoony", which was used in the 2nd advertisement. Webster's doesn't have a definition that connects with men's clothing fashion. It may have been youthful vernacular during that time period. (Input from others would be appreciated on defining "Spoony".)


Look up the definition of "to spoon." The Internet, quickly enough, will tell you that "spoon" is an old-timey verb meaning "to be amorous, affectionate."

In the early 1900s, "spoony" was an adjective that popped up now and then. You might not find it on the Internet so easily, but I did some research. I ran across the word in old newspapers. The context in which it was used leaves no doubt that it meant, logically enough, the state of being amorous, flirtatious, affectionate.

Thus, a fellow in the military who looked "spoony" while on leave appeared to be a fellow who was ready to give and receive some sweet romance. Or at least the semblance of it.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Corcovado




----------



## Doctor Damage

Corcovado said:


> View attachment 50157


What the fark is going on in this photo????


----------



## Charles Dana

Doctor Damage said:


> What the fark is going on in this photo????


Those people are riding a centripetal force amusement park ride. The deal: People get into a large drum and stand with their backs against the wall. The drum begins to spin faster and faster. As it does so, the floor gradually descends, but the people don't; they remain plastered to the wall.

The defunct Pacific Ocean Park in Santa Monica, California had one of those rides. I rode it a few times in the mid-1960s. I loved it. The one drawback: After the ride was over, I'd always be missing a sock.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> Those people are riding a centripetal force amusement park ride. The deal: People get into a large drum and stand with their backs against the wall. The drum begins to spin faster and faster. As it does so, the floor gradually descends, but the people don't; they remain plastered to the wall.
> 
> The defunct Pacific Ocean Park in Santa Monica, California had one of those rides. I rode it a few times in the mid-1960s. I loved it.


I've all but tossed my lunch just thinking about it 🤮. I love the physics of it, but my inner ear wants no part of it


----------



## Corcovado

Fading Fast said:


> I've all but tossed my lunch just thinking about it 🤮. I love the physics of it, but my inner ear wants no part of it


I'm with you, FF. I love roller coasters but I can't tolerate rides with repetitive or cyclical motion. I once got queasy just watching the Pirate Ship ride at King's Island.


----------



## Fading Fast

Corcovado said:


> I'm with you, FF. I love roller coasters but I can't tolerate rides with repetitive or cyclical motion. I once got queasy just watching the Pirate Ship ride at King's Island.


We are the same. I'm fine on rollercoasters, but even little kid rides that just turn in a circle or only go and up down make me sick.


----------



## FiscalDean

Thomas Watson, Jr.









Have to wonder if Chipp created his suit.


----------



## Doctor Damage

https://nypost.com/2020/08/15/how-the-secret-service-protects-the-presidents-golf-game/


----------



## Corcovado

BB King


----------



## Cassadine

McGeorge Bundy


----------



## Cassadine

William F. Buckley, Jr.


----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine

I know the chap on the left is British!


----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Cassadine




----------



## Corcovado




----------



## Flairball

...submitted somewhat tongue in cheek.


----------



## Tweedlover

Retired EE said:


> From my grandfather's 1920 West Point yearbook-- a young MacArthur (West Point superintendent) with trad trendsetter the Duke of Windsor; also an advertisement from a yearbook sponsor in the back of the yearbook:
> 
> View attachment 49353
> View attachment 49354


I have my great uncle's class of 1915 WP yearbook. Yeah, the clothing store adds in the back are great. Folks in my family didn't tend to pass along tales of the family's past. So, as a teen when first looking through it to find by great uncle's photo, was surprised to see he was a classmate of Eisenhower and Omar Bradley. Would have been an interesting man to meet-died in WWII. His first commission out of WP was serving as a fellow officer with George Patton in Pershing's expeditionary force.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Flairball said:


> ...submitted somewhat tongue in cheek.
> View attachment 53990


A fun photo. Duke is a great school but not an Ivy. Flairball's tongue was well placed. The Bean Boots are my foul weather faves.


----------



## Corcovado

A long time ago, in a high school far, far away.


----------



## Tweedlover

Corcovado said:


> View attachment 55448
> 
> A long time ago, in a high school far, far away.


Given the look reminds me of my HS senior year photo, I'm guessing you graduated somewhere between 1970 and "73.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Given the look reminds me of my HS senior year photo, I'm guessing you graduated somewhere between 1970 and "73.


Based on his hair length, I'm thinking a few years earlier, but you could very well be right.


----------



## eagle2250

Tweedlover said:


> Given the look reminds me of my HS senior year photo, I'm guessing you graduated somewhere between 1970 and "73.


I would peg the graduation date for that pic in the mid to late 1960's. Just sayin?


----------



## ran23

B/W gives it away.


----------



## Corcovado

Tweedlover said:


> Given the look reminds me of my HS senior year photo, I'm guessing you graduated somewhere between 1970 and "73.


That's not me. That's actor Mark Hamill of "Star Wars" fame. But your estimate is very close! He was born in 1951 and he graduated high school in 1969. I myself was still in diapers at that time.


----------



## Tweedlover

Corcovado said:


> That's not me. That's actor Mark Hamill of "Star Wars" fame. But your estimate is very close! He was born in 1951 and he graduated high school in 1969. I myself was still in diapers at that time.


I graduated in 1972.


----------



## ran23

Class of 72, my photos were in colour.


----------



## drpeter

Corcovado said:


> That's not me. That's actor Mark Hamill of "Star Wars" fame. But your estimate is very close! He was born in 1951 and he graduated high school in 1969. I myself was still in diapers at that time.


Hamill is one year younger than me. So he must be getting on. And here I was, thinking what a dashing fellow @Corcovado was! (Of course, I'm sure he was and still is, no fear).

Hamill was the chap in the funny adverts on TV recently with _Sir_ Patrick Stewart. Stewart was carrying a suitably grizzled, ancient cricket bat in the first one to counter Hamill's baseball bat in their "Cudgels at Dusk" duel.To wit:


----------



## wilhelm00

Last year on official work - had to bust out the Open Road. That plane is unreal - it just flat out _thunders_ when they launch.


----------



## Dr.Watson

Historian Andrew Bacevich gets pretty close to trad sometimes, though without the 3/2 rolls.


----------



## Corcovado

cartoonist Charles Addams and his wife, who is looking trad herself.


----------



## mhj

Corcovado said:


> That's not me. That's actor Mark Hamill of "Star Wars" fame. But your estimate is very close! He was born in 1951 and he graduated high school in 1969. I myself was still in diapers at that time.


I'm also class of '69. That would have been my guess if I had read this earlier, looks like it's straight out of my yearbook.


----------



## Dr.Watson

I've been reading judicial biographies for a seminar class. Practically every time that Justice Lewis F. Powell is mentioned he is described as "courtly." Seems like he dressed pretty trad too.


----------



## Dr.Watson

I've posted about Justice Souter on this thread before, but I thought this rarely seen 3/2 seersucker suit was worth posting.









And some bonus pictures.
















This last one is textbook: 3/2 sack, muted neat tie, collar roll, and a surcingle belt. Anglophile guy chatting with him appears to be wearing a Barbour jacket and emblematic tie too!


----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## drpeter

I looked at the photo @Doctor Damage, and read your signature line (Conan quote) right below, and I thought how appropriate! The Conan declaration seems to fit these fellows to a T -- they seem ready to crush their enemies, hear the lamentations, and so forth!


----------



## Doctor Damage

no gang signs, please


----------



## Doctor Damage

espadrilles!


----------



## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> espadrilles!
> 
> View attachment 57965


.....and indeed, one more solid argument for wearing them!


----------



## Doctor Damage

great suit (bad shoes)


----------



## AldenPyle

Richard Alpert (aka Ram Dass) and Timothy Leary ca. 1961. As the kids say, "How it Started" I will spare you the "How its Going" pics.


----------



## AldenPyle

Reynolds McCullough (aka Reyn of Reyn Spooner)


----------



## Corcovado

This gentleman is looking natty, although personally if I am going to roll up my cuffs I will typically go ahead and unbutton the top button.


----------



## AldenPyle

Surfers Duke Kahanamoku and Fred Hemmings








State Senator Hemmings ca. 2016 and 2009


----------



## eagle2250

Corcovado said:


> This gentleman is looking natty, although personally if I am going to roll up my cuffs I will typically go ahead and unbutton the top button.
> View attachment 58580


Perhaps he's trying to conceal that heavy mat of chest hair? Looking at his hands, he has obviously been doing what my Mama used to tell me never to do, or hair would grow on my hands! LOL.


----------



## AldenPyle

Robert Lowell


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Robert Lowell


That's an action shot of an OCBD collar rolling. Mr. Lowell dresses the way 90+% of the guys over 40 dressed when I started on Wall St. in the '80s.


----------



## drpeter

If I am not mistaken, the woman in the photograph is Elizabeth Hardwick, a novelist and critic herself, and Lowell's wife for a time. They had a stormy relationship, or so I have read. Lowell's bouts with manic-depressive disorder (bipolar illness, these days) also created many problems in his personal relationships. He did produce some fine poetry, however.

I am often reminded of a phrase at the end of Thomas Mann's fine short story _Tonio Kröger:_
"... the tragedy and the comedy of life". This novella and its companion _Death in Venice_ (made into a marvellous film by Luchino Visconti, with Dirk Bogarde playing Aschenbach), are both attempts to understand the artist's life, which is not an easy task, as Lowell's own life suggests.


----------



## AldenPyle

It is his wife. Here is more of a summer look with a friend and with family. 









with family


----------



## AldenPyle

Actor Ray Heatherton 1950









(daughter is Joey for those who remember 1970s tv).


----------



## Corcovado

Can you name this studious young man, circa 1967?


----------



## AldenPyle

The stamp and age makes me guess the current Senate Minority Leader.


----------



## AldenPyle

Daniel Ellsberg, 2010. (I think I have this jacket).


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## Doctor Damage




----------



## Doctor Damage

Fading Fast said:


> That's an action shot of an OCBD collar rolling. Mr. Lowell dresses the way 90+% of the guys over 40 dressed when I started on Wall St. in the '80s.


Much has changed. I was listening to a finance podcast a few weeks back and the hosts took some cheap shots at men wearing contrast collar shirts and Gucci loafers and implied no one dresses like that anymore, haha


----------



## Dr.Watson

Noticed a nice 3/2 suit in Roy Ottoway Wilkins's wikipedia image.


----------



## AldenPyle

Songwriter/Actor ("Route 66"/Emergency) Bobby Troup


----------



## AldenPyle

No one could ever replace Lincoln Chaffee in the trad purist's heart, but give Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse credit for some good OCBD/tie combos.


----------



## Doctor Damage

(on the right)


----------



## AldenPyle

RIP


----------



## Dr.Watson

AldenPyle said:


> RIP


Looks like camel hair.


----------



## AldenPyle

Dr.Watson said:


> Looks like camel hair.


Indeed. If you click on the pic, its pretty clear. At the point when I realized I had to stop buying sports coats, a tan camel hair blazer was at the top of my list. I think it must remain there, alas. When someone is in the news, a fresh group of high res pics is likely to appear on the internet including that tasty jacket. Of course, these pictures may sometimes court controversy. Probably best to keep commentary anodyne as possible.


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Indeed. If you click on the pic, its pretty clear. At the point when I realized I had to stop buying sports coats, a tan camel hair blazer was at the top of my list. I think it must remain there, alas. When someone is in the news, a fresh group of high res pics is likely to appear on the internet including that tasty jacket. Of course, these pictures may sometimes court controversy. Probably best to keep commentary anodyne as possible.


"At the point when I realized I had to stop buying sports coats"

I had a self-intervention at some point too. Once I discovered the sport coat, which for me was post college when I entered the work world and learned about adult clothes, it became my go-to item for most situations.

My first was a grey (with a blue tint) herringbone, 3/2 Brooks Brothers classic sack. Owing to budget constraints, that was my one sport coat for several years until I began slowly but relentless adding others for many years.

Chinos, an OCBD, a Shetland sweater and a herringbone sport coat is my happy place for clothing outfits. Owning to restrained buying (I haven't bought one in several years), a storage room fire and some trips to Goodwill, I have a manageable number today, but I still, usually owing to a pic on AAAC, get the itch to buy another one now and then.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Dr.Watson

AldenPyle said:


> When someone is in the news, a fresh group of high res pics is likely to appear on the internet including that tasty jacket.











A good point. NYT had this one of him today in a 3/2 sack.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## drpeter

Looks like Gurkha trousers judging by the waistband. But no Gurkha would be caught in jungle operations wearing this colour LOL.


----------



## AldenPyle

Civil rights minded DC landlord, Norman Bernstein. RIP (and congrats for making it to 100).


----------



## Corcovado

(from Instagram page of Same Knee @sceneinbetween)


----------



## AldenPyle

NASA Engineer Chris Kraft


----------



## AldenPyle

Jonathan Bush (brother of GHW)


----------



## AldenPyle

Rep. Amory Houghton


----------



## AldenPyle

Businessman William Beinecke


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Jonathan Bush (brother of GHW)


He's wearing real-deal Ivy.


----------



## eagle2250

AldenPyle said:


> Jonathan Bush (brother of GHW)


A handsome couple, for sure.


----------



## AldenPyle

This is a little more interesting than stylish perhaps. Sen. Prescott Bush and sons


----------



## AldenPyle

Kissinger


----------



## AldenPyle

Author Prof. Samuel Goldman of GWU


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

AldenPyle said:


> Businessman William Beinecke


Bill and my father were JOs together on the USS Buck (DD 420) during WWII and lifelong friends. They shared a deep and abiding love of GTH pants, tartan in the winter and Madras in the summer.


----------



## AldenPyle

John Jay Osborn Jr. from the author shot on "The Paper Chase"


----------



## 127.72 MHz

How about a famous non-American in 3/2 with no darts? Granted it has jetted pockets but I have most of my jackets made to be either jetted or flapped.


----------



## wilhelm00

127.72 MHz said:


> How about a famous non-American in 3/2 with no darts? Granted it has jetted pockets but I have most of my jackets made to be either jetted or flapped.
> View attachment 64298


Are the big scissors for use on Prince Andrew?


----------



## AldenPyle

scholar harry jaffa


----------



## AldenPyle




----------



## AldenPyle

Cong. Bill Steiger (R-Wi) ca. 1967. [As a note, the face on the far left is a pre-bald Dick Cheney]


----------



## AldenPyle

Edgar Rice Burroughs


----------



## AldenPyle

some guy on the internet with the same name as a writer


----------



## AldenPyle

Director Wes Anderson


----------



## AldenPyle

Philip Roth


----------



## Fading Fast

AldenPyle said:


> Philip Roth


Funny, just the other day, I posted comments on his first novel here  #927


----------



## Dr.Watson

William F. Buckley has appeared on here a few times, but here is a shoutout to the anonymous hero in the audience of this 1980s episode of _Firing Line_, wearing a tweed jacket, emblematic tie, jeans (I think) and Bean boots.


----------



## AldenPyle

Nice catch. Makes me wonder if the


Dr.Watson said:


> William F. Buckley has appeared on here a few times, but here is a shoutout to the anonymous hero in the audience of this 1980s episode of _Firing Line_, wearing a tweed jacket, emblematic tie, jeans (I think) and Bean boots.
> View attachment 66621
> View attachment 66623


Any estimate of when in the 80s that was? Makes me wonder if Danny Bonaduce there was L. Brent Bozell.


----------



## Dr.Watson

AldenPyle said:


> Nice catch. Makes me wonder if the
> 
> Any estimate of when in the 80s that was? Makes me wonder if Danny Bonaduce there was L. Brent Bozell.


Unfortunately, I saved that screenshot about a month ago and have forgotten which Firing Line episode it was from! I have a bad habit of watching WFB's intro of the speaker and the first two or three questions and moving on. I tried a couple ones I remember watching relatively recently, and neither were right.


----------



## AldenPyle

Mort Sahl


----------



## Corcovado




----------



## AldenPyle

University of Dallas political scientist Willmoore Kendall


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Corcovado said:


>


Mort Sahl is both amusing and very close to spot on for the politics of the day.

An interesting article about Mort:

https://slate.com/culture/2021/10/m...ionized-standup.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab


----------



## 127.72 MHz

An ad for Arrow shirts.


----------



## drpeter

Corcovado said:


>


Splendid stuff!


----------



## Corcovado

Don Peris of the band The Innocence Mission.


----------



## AldenPyle

Dean Stockwell RIP


----------



## AldenPyle

Kingman Brewster, 1940, [w/ Lindy and grad student (later CIA Deputy Director) Richard Bissell]


----------



## AldenPyle

Michael Sugrue, Ava Maria University & Great Courses lecturer


----------



## AldenPyle

Biologist EO Wilson, RIP


----------



## AldenPyle

Cartoonist Art Spiegelman


----------



## AldenPyle

P.J. O'Rourke, RIP


----------



## AldenPyle

American defense strategist Andrew Marshall


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## RandyLAX

Corcovado said:


> View attachment 68339
> 
> Don Peris of the band The Innocence Mission.


 I love The Innocence Mission. I used to see them play live before they signed to A & M. So talented.


----------



## AldenPyle

Baseball Writer Roger Angell (RIP)


----------



## Corcovado

From the J Press instagram account.


----------



## Corcovado

Still image from Alistair Cooke's introduction to "Poldark" on Masterpiece Theatre. (



)

Cooke became an American citizen in 1941 so at this point he had been an American for over half of his life.


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## DCLawyer68

My favorite American author currently writing, Amor Towles.


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## Vecchio Vespa

DCLawyer68 said:


> My favorite American author currently writing, Amor Towles.
> View attachment 90393


I concur. I am reading _A Gentleman from Moscow_ and enjoying it tremendously.


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## eagle2250

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I concur. I am reading _A Gentleman from Moscow_ and enjoying it tremendously.


A while back "A Gentleman From Moscow was our neighborhood book clubs monthly selection. Mrs. Eagle and I both found us to be a good read.


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## Corcovado

American physician Harvey Cushing


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## Corcovado

NASA astronauts, 1962


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## Corcovado

Buddy Holly. (Apologies if these have been shared before.)


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