# Charlie Hebdo



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

An interesting comment from a French journalist this morning, who suggested that the shouts of "Allah akbar" were a bit half-hearted and a bit theatrical, and that the operation wasn't in the usual Jihadist "martyrdom" style either. Any suggestions?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

What was the point he was trying to make? I hope he wasn't suggesting that it was staged.

What wasn't half hearted was the body count!


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

I have to agree. While not equal to a drone killing a few hundred innocents, this was a fully planned attack in order to make a point. That's not to say that all recruited soldiers are heavily into the scheme of things. I knew plenty of guys in the U.S. Army that were there for whatever reason (i.e. education funding )and were just waiting for their time to pass in order to get out. The same could probably be said of some of these guys. They probably didn't fully believe in the mission versus just wanting to get it done with (due to whatever promises, be it 47 virgins or whatnot).


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I suggest it is typical that apologists and The Usual Suspects feebly attempt to divert our attention from the ugly facts with foolish diversions.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I suggest it is typical that apologists and The Usual Suspects feebly attempt to divert our attention from the ugly facts with foolish diversions.


And that has what to do with the topic at hand? Anything further or just more B.S.? No one apologized did they? How & when has attention been diverted? I see nothing of this in the news anywhere (be it germany, france, u.k., u.s., etc).


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

When faced with REAL threats to Free Speech, most of the media cowers and retreats;



> A second photo of the editor, showing his face and the full cartoon image, has been scrubbed from the AP's archives. It was taken by a French service, SIPA, a partner agency that feeds images to the AP for distribution to its clients around the world. CNN, the New York Daily News and Britain's Telegraph, among others, carried the second photo but blurred the depiction of Muhammad in the cartoon.
> "We've taken the view that we don't want to publish hate speech or spectacles that offend, provoke or intimidate, or anything that desecrates religious symbols or angers people along religious or ethnic lines," said Santiago Lyon, a vice president of the AP and its director of photography. "We don't feel that's useful."


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> When faced with REAL threats to Free Speech, most of the media cowers and retreats;


Well admittedly they don't have quite the same bodyguard corps as American politicians (who are the ones that should really be promoting freedom of everything [over speech alone]). Of course even the lapdog Blair had his security staff run up $10'000 a week (per year) in extra expenses alone (hôtels, food, crap.). The watchdogs of freedom are supposed to who? Some journalist at a sarcastic newspaper? Of course it seems that the same paper attacked (chalie hebdo) did more than the american and brit politicians combined. sad. sad. sad.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I suggest it is typical that apologists and The Usual Suspects feebly attempt to divert our attention from the ugly facts with foolish diversions.


Apologists? Whom? Foolish diversions? What?
The initial reports stated that survivors reported that the killers spoke "poor French", yet the suspects being searched for are French born, and are thus unlikely to speak "poor French".


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

SG_67 said:


> What was the point he was trying to make? I hope he wasn't suggesting that it was staged.
> 
> What wasn't half hearted was the body count!


Not that it wasn't real, but that it appeared to have been carried out by professional soldiers, even special forces trained professionals, who were calm and measured throughout the action. Their method was unlike all previous attacks, especially their planned escape. Usually, indeed almost invariably, those carrying out these attacks do so as a suicide mission, with no escape planned beyond martyrdom. He, the French journalist, suggested that the "Allah akbar!" was for the benefit of witnesses.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ it was certainly not one of the typical "martyrdom"operations but I believe the motivations of the attackers with Jihadi nonetheless. 

ISIS fighting in Iraq and Syria aren't using suicide attacks either, at least not yet, but are still militant Islamists.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm willing to wait until all the facts are known, but it appears to be a simple but tragic case of workplace violence just like the attack at Ft Hood!!


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I'm willing to wait until all the facts are known, but it appears to be a simple but tragic case of workplace violence just like the attack at Ft Hood!!


You mean someone off their head claiming that it's a religious attack?? Like the christians acid bombing abortion clinics & killing off drs. that provided such medical care? In the name of christianity. Right?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I'm willing to wait until all the facts are known, but it appears to be a simple but tragic case of workplace violence just like the attack at Ft Hood!!


Why wait for facts? Just create your own so that you don't have to change the narrative.

Nothing frustrates a fantasy quite like the truth.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> When faced with REAL threats to Free Speech, most of the media cowers and retreats;


In a perfect world, every media organization on the planet would publish the cartoons all at once, on one day. This will never happen.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> In a perfect world, every media organization on the planet would publish the cartoons all at once, on one day. This will never happen.


Too many home grown, lo-level bureaucratic nincompoops threatening our Way of Life to make room for Islamist Goofballs!!


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Chouan said:


> An interesting comment from a French journalist this morning, who suggested that the shouts of "Allah akbar" were a bit half-hearted and a bit theatrical, and that the operation wasn't in the usual Jihadist "martyrdom" style either. Any suggestions?


More to this than perhaps meets the eye?


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Distasteful as political point scoring may be so soon after the event, and before all the facts are known, I think Mr Farage's views about a fifth column of disaffected muslims, and the failure of multiculturalism both in France and the UK, have a certain resonance.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Civility*

It is necessary, when discussing highly charged issues about which there is strong disagreement underlain with emotional and ideological investment by the interlocutors, that everyone endeavor to maintain a civil and gentlemanly tone in their remarks.

Gurdon

BTW, From the news reports I've read on Al Jazeera English, the perps were described as speaking perfect French, and it was suggested that they were French.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

^ Their identities are already known, quite possibly the police are at this minute closing in on them. The clarity of their spoken French will soon be revealed.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

justonemore said:


> You mean someone off their head claiming that it's a religious attack?? Like the christians acid bombing abortion clinics & killing off drs. that provided such medical care? In the name of christianity. Right?


No, more like the two confused brothers that carried out the Boston marathon bombing.

Those poor misunderstood dears...

Yes, that is a better comparison.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> No, more like the two confused brothers that carried out the Boston marathon bombing.
> 
> Those poor misunderstood dears...
> 
> Yes, that is a better comparison.


ah. So more like eric rudolph who carried out the olympic park bombing in 1996 in the name of christianity? Unlike the brothers he went on to bomb 2 abortion clinics & a lesbian nightclub before being caught.

Or perhaps the religious righters Terry Nichols & Timothy McVeigh?

Out of the 100 or so school shootings in the u.s since sandyhook in december 2012, how many of the shooters were christian versus islamic?

out of almost 15'000 murders last year in the u.s. I wonder how many were committed by christians over islamists? There were "only" 600 murders in france but I don't recall them being committed by islamists (and such would make the news wouldn't it?).

But I agree. They are religious freaks one & all. It will be a wonderful day when we can be rid of all of them no matter their beliefs.

to include christian terrorists...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

And jewish ones...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism

And hindu ones...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terror

And muslim ones...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

I do not buy into this equal opportunity blame apportionment.

It reminds me too much of Dr. Heinz Kiosk of " Daily Telegraph" fame ,who ended every discussion with the phrase "We are all guilty".

The main current problem is jihadists.

It pains me deeply to see it happening in great countries like France, the UK, Spain and the old White Commonwealth countries like Canada and Australia.

I remember the days of £10 Poms and a "White Australia Policy". Australia would never had attacks if they excluded chippy Third World types. 

Multiculturalism and Globalisation are a curse.


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

There is still time to associate these murders with the TEA Party


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

justonemore said:


> ah. So more like eric rudolph who carried out the olympic park bombing in 1996 in the name of christianity? Unlike the brothers he went on to bomb 2 abortion clinics & a lesbian nightclub before being caught.
> 
> Or perhaps the religious righters Terry Nichols & Timothy McVeigh?
> 
> ...


You conveniently ignore who is doing most of the killing at least now. But that's what you do.


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

Just touches reality the way a mattress balances on a bottle of wine.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> You conveniently ignore who is doing most of the killing at least now. But that's what you do.


No. It seems you are ignoring 100 attacks on u.s. schools within the past 2 years by people raised as christians. 2013 & 2014 are pretty much "now" aren't they?

How many attacks by islamists were there in the u.s. during the same timeframe.. 2-3? (and none of them were in our schools killing our children).

100 to 2.. Either you have forgotten how to count or you are being biased . "But that's what you do".

Now throw in the basic murder rate in the u.s. which is over 1'200 a month (once again the vast, vast majority committed by "christians").

Funny isn't it that there are less deaths/murders by muslims in all the war torn muslim countries combined per year than in the christian u.s.?

Have you ever heard of "The Jewish Defense League"? They are a homegrown U.S. terrorist organization responsible for at least 18 terrorist attacks on U.S. soil. How many muslim attacks have there been?

Do you realize that government sponsored killings of U.S. citizens is about 1'200 a year? Cops start crying the moment 1 of them is killed but in fact there are less than 80 on-duty cop deaths nationwide per year over the past decade.

I stand by simple numbers. There is a much better chance of being killed by god fearing christians versus muslims. As such, it is you that is "conveniently ignoring who is doing most of the killing at least right now". "But that's what you (and many Americans) do". None of it is made up versus being simple math. While I understand that education in the U.S. is usually ranked quite low, these numbers aren't too hard to crunch.

just curious.. did that whole ireland thing (not very long ago) concern muslims at all? Surely it wasn't christian on christian violence?

surely the religious (in general) are the main perps of terrorism. Blaming islam is the easy way out for other religious manipulators. Either way.. murderous ideolgies should be condemned no matter the ideolgy or perpetrators of such crimes against humanity.

According to this, the U.S. has killed 20-30 million people since world war 2... (geesh, who's doing the most killing, torturing, tromping on its own citizens rights, etc?)

https://www.sott.net/article/273517...lled-20-30-million-people-since-World-War-Two

https://imageshack.com/i/eydIKXptj


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Justonemore: Once again you subvert the subject/focus of a thread to serve as a stage for your continued rant against the US, the Christian faith and I believe in your earlier post, you even pulled in the Jews. Most of the crimes occurring in the US you have cited above had nothing to do with the perpetrators faith (school shootings, the overall US murder rate, etc), but you attempt to claim it to be so! You characterize the death of criminals taken down during the commission of their crimes as "government sponsored killings." That seems more than a bit of a stretch to me. Frankly your obvious hatred of the US and all things pertaining to her and you incessant need to repeat you past stated grievances against her seems to go beyond any definition of healthy expressions of discontent and indeed approaches the point of an unhealthy pathology! I for one have tired of reading such "rants"and several other members have expressed their frustration with such in their postings. Please try to find another drum to beat upon.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Justonemore: Once again you subvert the subject/focus of a thread to serve as a stage for your continued rant against the US, the Christian faith and I believe in your earlier post, you even pulled in the Jews. Most of the crimes occurring in the US you have cited above had nothing to do with the perpetrators faith (school shootings, the overall US murder rate, etc), but you attempt to claim it to be so! You characterize the death of criminals taken down during the commission of their crimes as "government sponsored killings." That seems more than a bit of a stretch to me. Frankly your obvious hatred of the US and all things pertaining to her and you incessant need to repeat you past stated grievances against her seems to go beyond any definition of healthy expressions of discontent and indeed approaches the point of an unhealthy pathology! I for one have tired of reading such "rants"and several other members have expressed their frustration with such in their postings. Please try to find another drum to beat upon.


Give me proof against a single claim I made & I will happily refrain from stating facts from now on. Just one. There is no doubt that religious upbringings have brought more problems than sollutions. Murder is murder. You like to claim it just in cases that go against your upbringing while I call it unjust.

When you seek revenge dig 2 graves.... unfortunate that such is too difficult for many of my american peers to understand.

I pull in all religions & am biased against none. Murder from christisns, jews, muslims, hindus, is murder. I make no difference of jewish terrorism & islamic terroism ob u.s. soil. That you do is quite telling.

Your belief that anything goes should be offensive to all freedom loving americans. Torture, murder, kidnapping are not part of my U.S.

Everyyhing stated can be shown elsewhere & is not my own opinion. Should you so desire, please give counterpoints

And piggies killing unarmed civillians is no less than murder. They should be charged as such & hung in public in order to allow public confidence in a true police force serving the public.

And just as your fellow "murder whoever" friends have complained, there are several on my side as well who think you nothing more than a common criminal for accepting such ommoral behaviors from your "elected" government.

Sometimes the facts are hard to face..hey?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Justonemore, I am not going to get sucked into playing your perverse little game, but just as an example, of those "government sponsored killings of US civilians" you cite, how many of those were even remotely linked to any religious affiliation? How many would have resulted in the perpetrator killing an innocent victim(s) if the police had not taken out the threat? You mis characterize statistics in such an obscene fashion, it becomes overly cumbersome if not impossible to respond. Why don't you bring up the almost 60,000 citizens who die each year in alcohol related traffic deaths? How many of those involved the over consumption of the sacramental wine used in various religious rituals? It's admittedly ridiculous, but that would certainly fit in with your preferred debating approach! No one is asking you to abandon your beliefs'principles here. I'm just asking you to employ some sensible degree of reason here...nothing else. 

At some point your penchant for perverting every interchange thread to your own purpose becomes trolling and that will not be tolerated.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> Justonemore, I am not going to get sucked into playing your perverse little game, but just as an example, of those "government sponsored killings of US civilians" you cite, how many of those were even remotely linked to any religious affiliation? How many would have resulted in the perpetrator killing an innocent victim(s) if the police had not taken out the threat? You mis characterize statistics in such an obscene fashion, it becomes overly cumbersome if not impossible to respond. Why don't you bring up the almost 60,000 citizens who die each year in alcohol related traffic deaths? How many of those involved the over consumption of the sacramental wine used in various religious rituals? It's admittedly ridiculous, but that would certainly fit in with your preferred debating approach! No one is asking you to abandon your beliefs'principles here. I'm just asking you to employ some sensible degree of reason here...nothing else.
> 
> At some point your penchant for perverting every interchange thread to your own purpose becomes trolling and that will not be tolerated.


No trolling over facts. You have closed threads due to you bias before & I have no doubt you'll do it again. Others have complained as to such but you don't care to notice. By numbers alone you (and yours) are wrong. Close the thread. Send a hitman. The truth and numbers remain. The biggest murderers in this world remain american and they are beyond a doubt christian.

I myself remain weary of the islamic terroism claim when you & yours are busy killing their women & children (in the name of freedom..lol.).

Oh. Yes. I did mention a jewish terrorist group that had committed more crimes than any modern islamist group. Facts are facts. But.. I guess such crimes coming from a "favoured" group is fine & dandy with you?

Cops
should protect citizen's rights.. That 1'200 poeople are killed a year speaks nothing as to protecting citizens.... That the police union constantly speaks out against Citizen rights is even more damning....

I'm sure you disagree but to me "no Knock" warrants are equal to nazis and communists. That's just the way I was taught as to freedom and the U.S.

Are these piggies or military? No Wonder the public opinion is turning aginst them. Only in the U.S. (and war torn countries)

https://imageshack.com/i/id34gFtUj

I respect the fact that you have your "opinion" but it seems rather obvious that you don't give others the same right. Seems like extremist nonsense to me....,


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Hitch said:


> There is still time to associate these murders with the TEA Party


And the Jews!

Oh wait, I think I'm too late on that one.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

SG_67 said:


> And the Jews!
> 
> Oh wait, I think I'm too late on that one.


Problems with clearly stated history or just personal bias? The proof is there & given by the u.s. government. Ah. Bias obviously. 18 terrorist attacks are fine with you as lo g as they aren't from islamists? Do you really support murder on american soil in the name of your prefered religion? Facts and justice seem to be a hard concept for those in certain areas.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

justonemore said:


> Do you really support murder on american soil in the name of your prefered religion?


What nation state or international faith based organization is funding this preferred religion murder you speak of??

Who are it's leaders and how did they directly influence or motivate the perpetrators of the incidences you bring forth??


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

justonemore said:


> I myself remain weary of the islamic terroism claim when you & yours are busy killing their women & children (in the name of freedom..lol.).


You are misinformed.

Deliberately gunning down 12 satirists while they work peacefully is not the same as having killed some innocents in pursuit of those that deliberately gunned down 12 satirists while they work.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> You mis characterize statistics in such an obscene fashion, it becomes overly cumbersome if not impossible to respond.


This is why I admire Charles Krauthammer so much.

He has the patience to deal with useful idiots.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

WouldaShoulda said:


> This is why I admire Charles Krauthammer so much.
> 
> He has the patience to deal with useful idiots.


I'm sure his background as a psychiatrist comes in handy when dealing with some!


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

WouldaShoulda said:


> This is why I admire Charles Krauthammer so much.
> 
> He has the patience to deal with* useful idiots*.


I wonder if Lenin ever thought to himself, "I'd like to think this idiot may be useful, but I'm afraid he's just an idiot."


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

SG_67 said:


> I'm sure his background as a psychiatrist comes in handy when dealing with some!


Sure. No answer as to the acceptability of a terrorist group that performed 18 missions on u.s soil. Good avoidance at least. Your silence is worse than acceptance. In fact it's beyond ignorance.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> You are misinformed.
> 
> Deliberately gunning down 12 satirists while they work peacefully is not the same as having killed some innocents in pursuit of those that deliberately gunned down 12 satirists while they work.


Ah. Another messed up american that likes revenge but thinks it's not acceptable for others to do so. More ignorant n.a.s

What you do & accept becomes acceptable to others. Too hard to comprehend?


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> What nation state or international faith based organization is funding this preferred religion murder you speak of??
> 
> Who are it's leaders and how did they directly influence or motivate the perpetrators of the incidences you bring forth??


Did I not already link to the group or are you not capable of reading? More american education I guess. Here we go again...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

should I hire someone to read it to you?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

justonemore said:


> Did I not already link to the group or are you not capable of reading? More american education I guess. Here we go again...
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
> 
> should I hire someone to read it to you?


Press!


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

SG_67 said:


> I wonder if Lenin ever thought to himself, "I'd like to think this idiot may be useful, but I'm afraid he's just an idiot."


I wonder if hitler ever thought that people like you...


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

justonemore said:


> Did I not already link to the group or are you not capable of reading? More american education I guess. Here we go again...
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
> 
> should I hire someone to read it to you?


Um...



> n 1994, the JDL's sister movements Kach and Kahane Chai were both outlawed in Israel as terrorist organizations posing a threat to state security; they are also banned in the United States and the European Union.[14


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

SG_67 said:


> I wonder if Lenin ever thought to himself, "I'd like to think this idiot may be useful, but I'm afraid he's just an idiot."


I understand Freud stole and modified that statement from Lenin for his own enrichment!!


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

I guess it's not nice to compare murderers to murderers. Please let extremist religious groups of your preference kill your fellow americans while denouncing muslims in a far away country. It's only fair afterall . Right?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

justonemore said:


> I guess it's not nice to compare murderers to murderers.


Not nice is subjective.

Believing that all killing is equal regardless of circumstance is factually wrong and intellectually dishonest.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I understand Freud stole and modified that statement from Lenin for his own enrichment!!
> 
> (Typical Jew)


That you quote discredited folks such as freud & lenin is quite telling. But fanboys will be fanboys


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Not nice is subjective.
> 
> Believing that all killing is equal regardless of circumstance is factually wrong and intellectually dishonest.


I get it. A u.s based jewish group killing people is somehow cool no matter their status given by the u.s. you and your neocon buddies are straight on. I give up. Kill them all and let "god" sort them out. Congrats


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Gentlemen, that's enough. Again, we have proven ourselves incapable of responsibly playing with the toys made available to us.

This thread is closed,


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