# Land's End OCBD's: New Tailored Fit



## ComboOrgan (Aug 28, 2006)

Here's some news for slim trads:

Land's End has changed their tailored fit on some of their men's dress shirts, including OCBDs.

I spoke with a customer service rep via live chat, and she told me that the changes are:

1. slimmer through the body
2. broader shoulder
3. wider arm hole

The shirts with the new fit have "improved tailored fit" in the description.

I don't think the change is drastic. For reference, the shoulder on a 15.5 neck has increased from 18" to 18.5"


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I do like the fact their shirts are/were slimmer thru the body, I just wish they were a bit slimmer thru the arms as well so they fit better under jackets.

Brian


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

This is a bit of a disappointment. What's being described is a move toward "athletic fit." For someone who is just generally lanky, this doesn't do any good. One less brand with something to offer!


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*Trim fit shirts generally bind my shoulders, so I'll give this a shot.*



vwguy said:


> ...I just wish they were a bit slimmer thru the arms as well so they fit better under jackets.


+1. I have to upsize sleeve length on LE shirts already because of this.
I fail to believe that many were complaining of small armholes. I suspect this is to appeal to the egos of males that also claim to need more room in the crotch.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

For me the arm holes were too generous before the change.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

That is good news. A couple of weeks ago I ordered one of the closeout OCBDs that must have been of the older cut. Very good for the money (even at regular price), but just a bit too tight through the areas that you mention. 

Lands End customer service is excellent. I had ordered several items and one did not fit, didn't like the color of another. LE offered to refund the shipping cost of one item, and sent a replacement of the other item with free shipping. Also, I was able to return the two unsatisfactory items at the local Sears store. 

I think I'll have to try the OCBD in the newer cut. 

Thanks for the information.


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## ComboOrgan (Aug 28, 2006)

Relayer said:


> That is good news. A couple of weeks ago I ordered one of the closeout OCBDs that must have been of the older cut. Very good for the money (even at regular price), but just a bit too tight through the areas that you mention.
> ...


At the time I wondered why such a staple item would be on closeout.

I now wish I had stocked up.


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## heimskringla (Nov 2, 2008)

I'm not really a fan of the fit as far as the chest is concerned; then again, I have a rather broad chest.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

This is terrible. Why on earth would someone ever increase the size of an armhole!!!!????!!!! 


Ugh. Looks like the ond $15 gems are a thing of the past.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

ComboOrgan said:


> Here's some news for slim trads:
> 
> Land's End has changed their tailored fit on some of their men's dress shirts, including OCBDs.
> 
> ...


I'm wearing some Hyde Park tailored fit shirts now with a 15" neck. They fit my skinny body perfect. If the new tailored fit shirts are anywhere near as close, they'll be perfect for most slim guys.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

The Louche said:


> This is terrible. Why on earth would someone ever increase the size of an armhole!!!!????!!!!


I'm not so sure that the armhole is larger, despite what the LE rep said. My new LE catalogue describes the armholes as "reshaped". It doesn't say larger, although it might be. The diagram seems to indicate that this reshaping is to allow for the arm to be raised above the head (hail a taxi it says in the catalogue) while keeping the shirt tucked in. Wouldn't larger armholes have just the opposite affect?

The shirt is described as "closer fitting" to fit better under a jacket and to give a more sleek appearance without a jacket. Again, doesn't sound like larger armholes to me, but who knows what "reshaped" means.

Cruiser


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> I'm not so sure that the armhole is larger, despite what the LE rep said. My new LE catalogue describes the armholes as "reshaped". It doesn't say larger, although it might be. The diagram seems to indicate that this reshaping is to allow for the arm to be raised above the head (hail a taxi it says in the catalogue) while keeping the shirt tucked in. Wouldn't larger armholes have just the opposite affect?
> 
> The shirt is described as "closer fitting" to fit better under a jacket and to give a more sleek appearance without a jacket. Again, doesn't sound like larger armholes to me, but who knows what "reshaped" means.
> 
> Cruiser


Cruiser, I was thinking the same thing. I also saw an official description somewhere indicating that the arms were cut closer...

I think the thing to do is to simply order a new one and find out. For $20 full price its tough to argue.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Ok - I just ordered a "new tailored fit" Hyde Park OCBD. I'll post a comparison to the other "old tailored fit" LE OCBD I got about 6 months ago as soon as it gets worn and washed.

BTW - I also got a knit tie from the overstocks section. Anyone here have any of LE's knit ties? I think I've heard that they are decent but I'm too lazy to search...


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I bought a new Hyde Park tailored fit OCBD that I'll match up to the older ones I have when I get a chance.

edit: OK, the new tailored fit *does* have smaller sleeves and armholes than the older trim fit OCBDs byt about 3/4" - 1" throughout on my 17.5x 35.

Brian


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

That is good to know. The first post nearly gave me a heart attack! One of my biggest pet peeves with suits and shirts now is the armholes.

She may have inferred that the armholes were wider because of the catalogue description. People often think that just because something is looser and more "relaxed" that it must be more comfortable and easier to move in.


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## PersianMonarchs (Dec 7, 2005)

*Their shirts are already too skimpy*

I'm a little surprised that Lands End would make their shirts even more skimpy in the body than they already were. I'm not an advocate of the bigger-is-better proportions of the Mercer shirts (although they ARE terrific in most respects), but I have always thought one would have to be AWFULLY skinny to prefer Brooks' "slim fit" and Lands End's downsizing of its already-too-slim shirts strikes me as a step in the wrong direction. (and I'm not all that hefty -- why take themselves out of the running for anybody with average to above average girth, along with everybody who doesn't like skimpy shirts anyway?). Sounds like a bad business decision -- as, apparently, was their move toward skimpier trousers last year. I understand that the returns were numerous and that they have backed off the tailored pants idea for good.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

PersianMonarchs said:


> Sounds like a bad business decision -- as, apparently, was their move toward skimpier trousers last year. I understand that the returns were numerous and that they have backed off the tailored pants idea for good.


I am one of those who returned a pair of LE tailored fit pants last year, but it was because I thought they were still too baggy.

As for the tailored fit shirts, I suspect that there are more than a few folks like me who's neck size is larger than the rest of their body. With LE's tailored fit shirts I can buy a shirt that fits reasonably well in the body and arms yet still be comfortable buttoned up for wear with a tie. Making their tailored fit shirts a little trimmer in the body won't bother me at all.

Cruiser


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Land's End is definitely catering toward the "slim fit" _body_ more than the "less blousiness" crowd with this decision. No RTW will fit everyone perfectly, unfortunately, and no matter what anyone does it will piss off someone out there.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

PersianMonarchs said:


> I'm a little surprised that Lands End would make their shirts even more skimpy in the body than they already were. I'm not an advocate of the bigger-is-better proportions of the Mercer shirts (although they ARE terrific in most respects), but I have always thought one would have to be AWFULLY skinny to prefer Brooks' "slim fit" and Lands End's downsizing of its already-too-slim shirts strikes me as a step in the wrong direction. (and I'm not all that hefty -- why take themselves out of the running for anybody with average to above average girth, along with everybody who doesn't like skimpy shirts anyway?). Sounds like a bad business decision -- as, apparently, was their move toward skimpier trousers last year. I understand that the returns were numerous and that they have backed off the tailored pants idea for good.





Jovan said:


> Land's End is definitely catering toward the "slim fit" _body_ more than the "less blousiness" crowd with this decision. No RTW will fit everyone perfectly, unfortunately, and no matter what anyone does it will piss off someone out there.


A lot of this has to do with fit preferences and (I hate to say it) fashionable dressing trends. Anybody concerned enough with clothes to join this board know that there is a trend in the clothing world towards slim these days.

Persian, if you truly have an average body, the slim fit LE shirts should fit you fine. You may not like the look, but there will be sufficient room in the shirt for you. If you want something baggy just get a traditional fit shirt. One of the reasons many people prefer slimmer shirts these days is b/c of their ability to better fit underneath a jacket or sweater with out bunching and wrinkling due to the excess material.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I realise that there's a trend, but as you point out in your second paragraph there's other reasons someone may need to have slim fit shirts. A regular cut shirt in my neck size would look absolutely clown-like on me. Every full cut shirt I've had I need to take to the alterations tailor. I'd rather avoid that if possible.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Jovan said:


> I realise that there's a trend, but as you point out in your second paragraph there's other reasons someone may need to have slim fit shirts. A regular cut shirt in my neck size would look absolutely clown-like on me. Every full cut shirt I've had I need to take to the alterations tailor. I'd rather avoid that if possible.


Jovan,

Thats my point. These "slim fit" shirts are indeed almost never really that slim. I can't understand why someone with an average body would complain about them. I have a very average body (5'10.5", 165) and I almost need to have my "slim fit" OTR shirts tapered...


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Oh, I see what you're saying, but I was partially addressing PersianMonarchs earlier who claimed the slim fits are already too slim as they are.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Cruiser said:


> As for the tailored fit shirts, I suspect that there are more than a few folks like me who's neck size is larger than the rest of their body. With LE's tailored fit shirts I can buy a shirt that fits reasonably well in the body and arms yet still be comfortable buttoned up for wear with a tie.


That's exactly why I like slim fit shirts. We're not talking tight fit, just a little slimmer.

Brian


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## SlowE30 (Mar 18, 2008)

vwguy said:


> I bought a new Hyde Park tailored fit OCBD that I'll match up to the older ones I have when I get a chance.
> 
> edit: OK, the new tailored fit *does* have smaller sleeves and armholes than the older trim fit OCBDs byt about 3/4" - 1" throughout on my 17.5x 35.
> 
> Brian


Thanks for the real-life report, though it conflicts with the "wider armhole" mentioned before. 
My biggest beef with my LE OCBD is the sleeves - the forearms seem to be cut for Popeye the sailor man himself. Might be worth another shot.


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## brozek (Sep 24, 2006)

SlowE30 said:


> My biggest beef with my LE OCBD is the sleeves - the forearms seem to be cut for Popeye the sailor man himself. Might be worth another shot.


Agreed! I've always wondered who puts on a shirt and thinks, "Wow, great fit, but these forearms....so restrictive!"


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Just wondering, when were they called "Trim Fit"? I've got an OCBD from them that has this marking. It was still in good condition when I found it at Goodwill. Have they improved the collar any, too? The one I have with 3" points and a very narrow spread is a little small for my taste.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Jovan said:


> Just wondering, when were they called "Trim Fit"? I've got an OCBD from them that has this marking. It was still in good condition when I found it at Goodwill. Have they improved the collar any, too? The one I have with 3" points and a very narrow spread is a little small for my taste.


It was w/in the past 5 years for sure, maybe only 3 or 4 years back. I think the trim fit was their first attempt at a slimmer fit.

Brian


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

vwguy said:


> It was w/in the past 5 years for sure, maybe only 3 or 4 years back. I think the trim fit was their first attempt at a slimmer fit.
> 
> Brian


Thats my understanding.

I got my new Hyde Park Tailored fit in the mail last night. The fit is indeed a bit improved over my tailored fit OCBD from a few months ago. The body is a touch more snug, the armhole slightly smaller, and the sleeves slightly snugger. I am intrigued by their claim of an improved shirt tail that doesn't come un-tucked. I wore the shirt around for a few hours doing a few things around the house and shopping. It didn't come untucked but the tail feels slightly short to me anyhow. I'm also a little miffed with the wider shoulder. It isn't wide enough to ruin the shirt but it is a bit annoying. I'm sure this would be good for a guy with bigger shoulders, but I like the yoke to stop right at the top of my shoulder. It seems that the new armhole was achieved by widening the shoulders - it cants the top of the armhole out, reducing the overall effective diameter.

Either way, a nice shirt for about 30 beans. I was truly impressed with the supima oxford cloth in the Hyde Park. Light years better than LE's regular oxford cloth IMO. Very heavy and it has a nice hand. Again, certainly not the nicest shirt I've ever seen but maybe the nicest $30 shirt I've ever seen.


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## Chengdu nanhai (Apr 12, 2009)

Does anyone know the chest measurement of tailored fit OCBD in 14.5 and 15? I have a 15" neck (14.5 often fits too snugly), but often shirts in 15" neck are too loose in the body.


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## ChiliPalmer (Nov 18, 2008)

Why not just go through their Custom program?

You can return it for any reason (fit/fabric, etc.) direct to them or to your local Sears store.

There is no risk in trying it.


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## Chengdu nanhai (Apr 12, 2009)

ChiliPalmer said:


> Why not just go through their Custom program?
> 
> You can return it for any reason (fit/fabric, etc.) direct to them or to your local Sears store.
> 
> There is no risk in trying it.


Sears carries Lands End? I should have tried the sizes on personally, but I just went ahead and ordered 3 in 14.5 already.


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## ChiliPalmer (Nov 18, 2008)

Chengdu nanhai said:


> Sears carries Lands End? I should have tried the sizes on personally, but I just went ahead and ordered 3 in 14.5 already.


I was going to post that no, Sears doesn't carry Lands End, but I seem to remember that some of the stores do carry some casual clothes. Some might even have standard, RTW dress shirts.

I mention this because I returned a custom fit shirt that was too big to my local Sears. Sears and Lands End are all part of Eddie Lampert's empire.


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## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> +1. I have to upsize sleeve length on LE shirts already because of this.
> I fail to believe that many were complaining of small armholes. I suspect this is to appeal to the egos of males that also claim to need more room in the crotch.


A bit of a strange comment. However I consider the source.


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## ComboOrgan (Aug 28, 2006)

Chengdu nanhai said:


> Does anyone know the chest measurement of tailored fit OCBD in 14.5 and 15? I have a 15" neck (14.5 often fits too snugly), but often shirts in 15" neck are too loose in the body.


Try the live chat service on their website. They can give you measurements - they're quite helpful


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

I ordered 3 yesterday: at the current sale price, I thought I couldn't go wrong. One of my main concerns was the collar, which is said in the product description to be unfused. Some here are saying otherwise. What is the true story with respect to button down collars on the basic ocbd, and on the Hyde Park. Any comments from those with recent experience would be appreciated.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

P Hudson said:


> I ordered 3 yesterday: at the current sale price, I thought I couldn't go wrong. One of my main concerns was the collar, which is said in the product description to be unfused. Some here are saying otherwise. What is the true story with respect to button down collars on the basic ocbd, and on the Hyde Park. Any comments from those with recent experience would be appreciated.


Hyde Park collars are lined (i.e. the collar has a stiffer piece of cotton reinforcement) but unfused (the lining floats free inside the collar rather than being glued on to the shirt fabric). I think these two concepts are sometimes confused.


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## Chi (Feb 15, 2009)

The slim fit is trimmer in the body AND trimmer in the shoulders - they did not work for me. Too tight in the shoulders.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

Thanks Alden,

I was hoping that when LE said their OCBD was rolled and non-fused, it would be the sort of thing we want. I have an ancient, worn through, BB OCBD, and I'd pay a fair bit to get more shirts with that look and feel.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

vwguy said:


> I do like the fact their shirts are/were slimmer thru the body, I just wish they were a bit slimmer thru the arms as well so they fit better under jackets.


I purchased a white and blue oxford slim fits from the sale and found this to be true. I'm a little disappointed by how blousy the arms look on me, but at $13 each I'll have enough money for a tailor to take them in.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> Hyde Park collars are lined (i.e. the collar has a stiffer piece of cotton reinforcement) but unfused (the lining floats free inside the collar rather than being glued on to the shirt fabric). I think these two concepts are sometimes confused.


Well that's good to know. How does the collar compare to others?



P Hudson said:


> Thanks Alden,
> 
> I was hoping that when LE said their OCBD was rolled and non-fused, it would be the sort of thing we want. I have an ancient, worn through, BB OCBD, and I'd pay a fair bit to get more shirts with that look and feel.


The collar on mine sits rather flat when worn with a tie. I hope they improve that eventually too.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

I had to size up half a collar size, but I wanted to try the LE hyde park shirts.

I'm not impressed. The fabric is thick, but it's stiff and wrinkles more than I would expect. The interlining is also stiffer than my old OCBDs.

Maybe it just needs to break in.

But the collar also has NO tie space, and is exceptionally large for the size. Honestly it looks like someone took a collar half a size up and moved the button in a quarter of an inch.

Edit: oh, right, the tailored fit. It's fine in the body but the armholes and sleeves are much too big.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Strange. The OCBD I have has the customary 3/8" tie space.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

When I said I thought they just took a larger collar and moved the button, I wasn't kidding.

Here's a picture (the LE one is white; the blue one is an old LL Bean OCBD):


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## Chengdu nanhai (Apr 12, 2009)

LE shipped out my 3 OCBDs Tuesday, so I should receive them any time now. From the comments above, sounds like the blousy arms are a concern... I'll post my 2 cents over the weekend.


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## rwjones (Jan 29, 2009)

I received mine yesterday. I'm satisfied with it but I much prefer the already-broken-in feel of, say, Rugby RL oxfords. Is there any way to expedite the process at home? This LE shirt reminds me of my Catholic elementary school days when my mother would buy cheapo junk oxfords that she would starch and iron constantly to make them feel stiff as a board. I hated that. 

What's the difference between the Hyde Parks and the normal ones? The website says they're heavier, but that's a bit vague.


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## Chengdu nanhai (Apr 12, 2009)

Just tried on my new LE tailored fit today. The sleeves are indeed a bit blousy, and the over all fit is still a bit loose, but most importantly, the neck isn't too tight, which was my biggest fear. I am generally satisfied with the purchase though. 

From my experience with RTW shirts so far, only the Made in Italy Polo RL and Arrow tailored fit are slim enough to require no alteration.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

A little off topic, but has anyone tried the MTM/custom shirts? I see that you could input the body proportions and "slender" is a choice. So I'm wondering if they will take that into account and model a custom shirt after their trim fits from the past.


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## RipRoar (Jan 8, 2008)

Got mine today as well - like others have reported, I find the neck just fine and the sleeve length okay, but the sleeves are quite blousy and armholes large. Guess I keep looking for my perfect OCBD fit...

Next up: Black Fleece and Rugby RL


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## Chengdu nanhai (Apr 12, 2009)

RipRoar said:


> Got mine today as well - like others have reported, I find the neck just fine and the sleeve length okay, but the sleeves are quite blousy and armholes large. Guess I keep looking for my perfect OCBD fit...
> 
> Next up: Black Fleece and Rugby RL


Please share with us your observations. I am obliged to remind myself that LE and the two brands you mentioned are in different price ranges.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I just received a couple of new LE tailored fit OCBD's (not Hyde Park) today and without taking comparison measurements but just going by feel, I can't tell much difference in them and my older LE OCBD's. The shoulders might be just a tad bit wider and the body just a tad bit slimmer, but all in all not enough to really notice.

Cruiser


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## gardel (Jul 23, 2008)

I've purchased several of the current Hyde Park Tailored Fit shirts (regular, not non-iron) in 15-1/2 x 34. I'm rather lean but do a good amount of weight training. There's some extra room in the shoulders and upper arms in this cut compared to some other "slim" RTW shirts that works well for me. Despite my 31" waist, the body is reasonably trim too, not tent-like as it would be with a regular cut shirt on me. I think someone with a bit of fullness in the shoulders and upper arms yet wanting a slimmer body would like this cut but if you're generally slight of build all around, you might want to look elsewhere for a slim fit.


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## fruityoaty (Jan 18, 2008)

I have both an old and new tailored fit _pinpoint_ oxford, and I've been keeping measurements of my shirts after several washings, so maybe I can help. These measurements are for a nominal 16-33, and I always wash cold, tumble dry low.


```
old     new
Armpit to cuff              20      20.5
Shoulder to cuff            24      24
Sleeve                      32      33.5
Sleeve width at armhole     10.5    10.5
Body width at armpit        23      23.5
Yoke width                  18.25   19
Waist at last button        21.5    22
Neck                        16.5    16.5
Length at front placket     28      28
```
In terms of construction changes, the old pinpoint had a lined but not fused collar and fused placket and cuffs. The new shirt has everything fused, but the fusing is very soft. The placket and cuffs are way softer than on the old shirt, now almost like a BB OCBD, softer than the LE Hyde Park fusing. (It's worth buying one of these shirts just to see what good fusing looks like, IMO.) The collar is also fused on only the outside face and softens with each wash. I'll admit it looks better during the day, is better matched to the level of treatment to the placket and cuffs, and will take less ironing to beautify.

The cloth also seem a little softer than my old pinpoint, even though the old pinpoint was been washed many more times. My wife actually commented on how soft the shirt was when she put her hand on my back yesterday, and she never comments on my shirts.

Finally, the old shirts had box pleats, while the new shirts have shoulder pleats.

I, for one, wish they'd slimmed it down a bit more in the body and arms, but I guess I'll have to wait for their new Stick Fit.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I finally bought one. At about $20 I can afford to fail. 

My worst fears, however, were confirmed. Now I didn't whip out the measuring tape, but I did feel a difference right off the bat. 

The body felt about the same and if there was a difference there I couldn't tell. The sleeves, however, felt like pirate sleeves. I tried on one of my older ones to try and get a feel for the difference and they definitely look bigger.

I'm not sure what the future of this lonely shirt will be, but with the order I just placed at BB its prospects look bleak. 

I would advise anyone looking for a truly SLIM option to take a pass on these. BB slim & RL custom are much better options.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

I may have jumped to conclusions about the fabric and collar size. I tried being rough on it in the wash and it seems to have softened and shrank down nicely.

The lack of tie space still bothers me.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Trip English said:


> My worst fears, however, were confirmed. Now I didn't whip out the measuring tape, but I did feel a difference right off the bat.


Just based on feel and appearance I can't tell any difference in the old tailored it and the new tailored fit. After reading you comments I got an old one out and laid it on top of a new one, same size, and the only difference I see if the new one has a slightly smaller arm hole. Otherwise, the sleeves are the same circumference, at least they are on my old and new LE tailored fit shirts.

Cruiser


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