# Gaziano & Girling



## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

Rumor has it that Tony will be introducing RTW shoes over the next few months on newly developed lasts. Anyone have any information on this?

Thanks,

Panzer


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Perhaps you should make an appointment to see him in NYC in October and see for yourself. :devil:


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

Is he showing his RTW shoes during his October visit? - I thought the US visits were solely for bespoke?


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Please keep in mind that designing RTW shoes, manufacturing RTW shoes, and selling RTW shoes are three distinct arenas.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

I seem to recall Tony explaining to me that the RTW was a few years away.


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

Why don't you ask him yourself:

tony(at)gazianogirling.com


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

Letter from Tony - website showing the RTW shoes will be up-and-running on the 15th:

From the 15th of September our web site www.gazianogirling.com will be active, please feel free you browse our new range of shoes, we will be developing new ranges and adding new bespoke samples regularly, these will be displayed on the website and on our USA visits which we plan to do twice a year, there will be a wide selection of leathers and endless styles for you to choose from, so please make and appointment and call in, if only out of curiosity.

Please note our venues, dates and times below. To request an appointment before we travel please contact, tonyatgazianogirling.com or call +44 1536 511022


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

Well, since the cat's out of the bag, his RTW shoes are supposed to be higher-end than EG, Lobb, etc. with a lot of bespoke touches added like beveled waists, fiddle-back soles, and more handwork in general, etc. His motivation for producing RTW is to maintain a steady income stream so that he can continue to do bespoke, which tends to have an irregular income stream (customers miss a fitting, unpredictable demand, unscalable operation, etc.).

--Andre


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

"Well, since the cat's out of the bag"

Gee, I never realized that the sale of RTW shoes by a merchant was meant to be such a secret, that you were unable to comment on this earlier

Panzer


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

I believe Tony asked the people he told to keep quiet about it because of competitive issues with other companies.

--Andre


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

So will this be similar to the now discontinued custom order/MTM program from EG?


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

I believe that EG is still in the MTM business. Since Tony's departure they are, however, out of the bespoke business.

I'm a little surprised that Tony's contract with EG didn't preclude a RTW line. Perhaps he is planning to use their manufacturing resources. With that and a different price point/distribution channel, it might be an attractive proposition for them.


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

I contacted EG about a month ago after the initial talk of the discontinuation of their custom program and I was told that this was just a rumor and they would still be offering the custom program. They said something to the effect that this talk was a "rumor that devleoped on some style forum." 
But, that was about a month ago, so something may have changed.


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## iyorito (Aug 18, 2005)

Panzeraxe-san,

Tony is still an employee of EG & Co until the 15th of Sep so please understand the circumstances.

Regards,


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

At that point, the Gaziano & Girling website (www.gazianogirling.com) should be functioning and the new catalogue should be available.


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## kabert (Feb 6, 2004)

Any guesses as to what company will be making these RTW shoes? C&J? (Comparable to what C&J does for Cleverley (and Wildsmith) perhaps, with some unique-to-Cleverley styles?)


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## iyorito (Aug 18, 2005)

Dear Sirs,

You can now download the catalogue from the site below. Any comments will be appreciated.

https://centipede.web.fc2.com/GG_Brochure_amended.pdf

Regards,


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## centipede (Aug 27, 2006)

iyorito said:


> Dear Sirs,
> 
> You can now download the catalogue from the site below. Any comments will be appreciated.
> 
> Regards,


https://centipede.web.fc2.com/ :icon_smile:


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

centipede said:


> https://centipede.web.fc2.com/ :icon_smile:


https://centipede.web.fc2.com/GG_Brochure_amended.pdf

I like the Gable. I wonder where Tony got the idea for that? :icon_smile_wink:


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## A Harris (Jun 25, 2003)

That is the best shoe catalogue I have seen, ever! Very well done!


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

I was actually going to post my catalog but Tony asked me to wait until the 14th around which he leaves EG officially. I am glad it was officially released earlier.

The catalog is very well done and the shoes are incredible. I think I know what I want for Christmas now.


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## lee_44106 (Apr 10, 2006)

So who's making the shoes and what price points?


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

And when will they be available in what sizes and leathers?


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

I believe these will not be RTW, strictly speaking, but special order only. At least at first. Perhaps if the company does well, they will have enough cash to finance the making and stocking of dozens of pairs of shoes in various sizes. As to leather, from the catalogue, it looks like all the basics will be covered.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

A Harris said:


> That is the best shoe catalogue I have seen, ever! Very well done!


Seconded! And the shoes themselves are absolutely _sublime_. I just can't stop looking at them!


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

Beautiful shoes. The lasts look very familiar... :icon_smile_wink:


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

*Gaziano & Girling trunk show in London*

Alright, you've seen the catalogue, now see the shoes for yourselves (at least for those who are in London).

Tony Gaziano and Dean Girling are having a trunk show to present their bespoke services and the ready-to-wear collection.

Date: *22nd September 2006*, opening hours *9am - 6pm*.
Venue: *12 Savile Row, London W1*.
Those are the premises of *Chittleborough and Morgan* (tailors), the basement below the Scabal shop.



> You are welcome to call by any time of the day to view our shoes, collect a catalogue and have a glass of champagne. If you require some private time please contact us and make an appointment.


So anyone who isn't too far away, should come along and have a look. There might be other attractions like jugglers, fire eaters, brass bands, but I don't know about that.

I know, all you guys (those who cannot attend) have a lot of questions to ask. I'll do my best to ask them on your behalf and will report here after the event.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

sorry chaps! but the link is not working


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

luk-cha said:


> sorry chaps! but the link is not working


Alas, we'll probably have to wait until Friday. But I still like the Gable.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

it feel like i am a child again waiting for Xmas!


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

A glass of champagne? Why the discrimination against whisky and other imbibables?

Seriously, I wish Tony and Dean the best in their new venture, and I look forward to seeing Tony when he's in the United States in October.


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## iyorito (Aug 18, 2005)

https://centipede.web.fc2.com/GG_Brochure_amended.pdf

It's up and running again. Sorry to have kept you waiting.

https://centipede.web.fc2.com/GG_Brochure_amended.pdf


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

iyorito said:


> https://centipede.web.fc2.com/GG_Brochure_amended.pdf
> 
> It's up and running again. Sorry to have kept you waiting.
> 
> https://centipede.web.fc2.com/GG_Brochure_amended.pdf


Glad to see that it's back, iyorito.

A few random comments:

Although it's not terribly obvious from the pictures, the heels of these shoes are different from the heels I have seen on any other RTW shoes. They're shaped like bespoke heels: smaller, less block-like, and higher than standard RTW heels. I can't remember if they're pitched, too. That would make them perfect.
It's obvious that many of the styles are inspired by some of the bespoke shoes that Tony has made, which means that they're slightly quirky and unlike anything else on the RTW market. Specifically, look at the Gable, the Wiltshire, and the Hughes.
Unlike EG, GG appears to be using standard aniline leathers, not crust leathers. There are good points and bad points to this; but ultimately, it doesn't bother me or make the shoes any less attractive to me.
No boots! What's up with that? In addition, there are no Balmoral models (in the British sense of the word), which I think would be a good addition.
I will be interested to see the treatment of the waist again. If I remember correctly, the shoes have a waist similar to JL Paris's "bootmaker" waist, which is a very good thing.
I think that I can figure out DG, TG, GG, and MH; but who's KN?
I'm very excited about these shoes. They're very well-made -- as well-made as EG or JL Paris (or even better-made), they're slightly unusual without being crazy, and the prices are reasonable (at least when compared with the competition).


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## whnay. (Dec 30, 2004)

This might be a question that will have to be answered after the 15th but will G&G have a formal shop presence in London? Or will orders be filled primarily via appointment?


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

And inasmuch as these look more akin to being special orders (as distinct from the made to measure option that will be available in the future), what might be the expected wait?


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## imainish (May 31, 2006)

That is a fantastic catalog with magnificient shoes. Thanks for sharing it. Alas, I am resigned to my AE collection, (which has grown tremendously thanks to this forum). The Monaco model in the GG catalogue has given me new appreciation for my most recently aquired AE Glasgows.

https://www.amazon.com/Allen-Edmond...sr_1_14/002-5354016-1585668?ie=UTF8&s=apparel

I know it's not in the same league as the GGs but the Glasgow looks amazing on my foot and is the sleekest AE I own.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

whnay. said:


> This might be a question that will have to be answered after the 15th but will G&G have a formal shop presence in London? Or will orders be filled primarily via appointment?


I doubt it. about GG's event to launch the company mentions that it will be on the premises of Chittleborough & Morgan. It's possible that some samples might be left there permanently, but it seems likely that Tony will do business in a similar manner to, say, Thomas Mahon: available for appointments, but no permanent retail presence.


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## iyorito (Aug 18, 2005)

jcusey-san,
Thank you for your comments. As to boots and balmorals, they will be coming up as time goes by. We simply could not come up with everything at once.
I hope the following link present some idea about finishing of the waist.



whnay.san,
When we are financially ready for it, we would like to have our own shop in the West End.

medwards-san,
At this time, we would have to say about 5 months. But that should be shortened to 4 months.

imainish-san,
Thank you for your comment.


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

Wow! I still can't get over those wonderful heels! As impressive as the pictures in the catalog are, these pictures of the beta shoes give a hint of how far the GG RTW shoes are beyond EG, etc. I think the shoes will impress even more when actually seen.

--Andre


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

This is an extremely impressive debut collection. I hope to attend the trunk show in London later this month.

Will the special order shoes be available in different width fittings or will it just be a single width?


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## iyorito (Aug 18, 2005)

Trilby san,

D and E widths.

Regards,


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*Gaziano & Girling Website Now Up*

The website for Gaziano & Girling (www.gazianogirling.com) is now functioning.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

medwards said:


> The website for Gaziano & Girling (www.gazianogirling.com) is now functioning.


Why, oh why, must every website use Flash?


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

I don't know, but I think far too many sites are too Flash-y for their own good.  

That said, be sure to take a look at the bespoke gallery on the website. Some interesting examples and rather different than the other models pictured on the website and in the catalogue.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

The bespoke models are indeed handsome. A very well done site.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

jcusey said:


> Why, oh why, must every website use Flash?


'Cause it's _Flash-y!_


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

Aside from the aforementioned trunk shows, how would one go about obtaining Mssrs Gaziano & Girling's wares if there is no shop and there are no stockists????


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Jcusey,

One of the many reasons designers like flash is that you can not drag and drop the jpeg images to your desk top thereby reducung "theft" of images from the site.

Of course, there is a way around this, with screen snaps,
but generally speaking, the removal and re-use of images is greatly reduced with Flash.

At least the GG site is as clean and elegant as the shoes appear to be,
as Teacher says, many designers who get caught up in flash, just to be "flashyer".

Those are very beautiful looking shoes!


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

zegnamtl said:


> One of the many reasons designers like flash is that you can not drag and drop the jpeg images to your desk top thereby reducung "theft" of images from the site.
> 
> Of course, there is a way around this, with screen snaps,
> but generally speaking, the removal and re-use of images is greatly reduced with Flash.


Okay, I can buy that; but if that were GG's intent, why would the enlarged images of their shoe models be standard JPGs? See , for example.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Jcusey,

Interesting, the pop up enlarged windows are standard html and fully removable jpegs!

The guy who is finally re working my site also claims that fading from one image to another, sideways scrolling, audio and all those "bells and whistles" are much cleaner in flash than standard html code. But flash certainly allows technic to become more import than content all too often.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Speaking of illustrations, it would seem appropriate to include a link to centepede's wonderful as part of this discussion of Gaziano & Girling offerings.


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

manton said:


> I believe these will not be RTW, strictly speaking, but special order only. At least at first. Perhaps if the company does well, they will have enough cash to finance the making and stocking of dozens of pairs of shoes in various sizes. As to leather, from the catalogue, it looks like all the basics will be covered.


While this ceratinly makes sense, the web site's designation of the bench made line as distinct from Made to order suggests that there would be a distinction and they they would stock some lines.

Otherwise, isn't everything made to order (the main distinction of MTO being choice of leather and perhaps last)?


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

I spoke to Tony this week and he said that, for now, they will not be stocking RTW shoes. Unless I misinterpreted his words.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

While that doesn't really surprise me, it does raise some questions about the thinking behind a website that clearly emphasizes such shoes and which does not focus terribly much on the present priority -- bespoke side of the operation.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

medwards said:


> While that doesn't rerally surprise me, it does raise some questions about a wbsite that emphasizes such shoes and which does not focus terribly much on the bespoke side of the operation.


Hey, anyone contacted plal yet to see if they'll stock them? 
:devil:


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

RJman said:


> Hey, anyone contacted plal yet to see if they'll stock them?
> :devil:


You sir, raise rabble. Shamelessly.

I really do like Tony's work. Extremely nice guy too - that doesn't make the shoes any prettier but certainly makes the 'experience' all it should be.


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

*A Little More Information*

Not to disagree with Iyorito, who should know, of course, but my information via an e-mail from Dean Girling suggests that fittings other than D and E will be available in the special-order program. I mentioned to Mr. Girling that I took a C fitting in EG, and he replied that that would be the fitting to order in G&G. This is very encouraging.

He also noted that the special-order shoes would have a beveled waist and pitched heels of height 30 mm. (about 1 3/16", so not quite 1 1/4", which to my eye would be bordering on too high). The various models would be available in all colors, lasts, and sizes/fittings and would run 450 GBP (including VAT). Finally, Mr. Girling confirmed that the delivery time would be 4-5 months from date of order.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm really warming up to this idea. The math is attractive...let's say one finds a last that is close to his foot. You could do 3 MTOs for the price of a bespoke pair. As much as I like bespoke and I'm sure G&G would be incredible in bespoke, this is quite compelling.

Maybe one could do 5 MTOs for the price of a Suzuki bespoke...sorry can't resist tormenting my friend whnay.


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## whnay. (Dec 30, 2004)

Artisan Fan said:


> Maybe one could do 5 MTOs for the price of a Suzuki bespoke...sorry can't resist tormenting my friend whnay.


ugh....


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## Conrad Poohs (Feb 1, 2006)

Roger said:


> The various models would be available in all colors, lasts, and sizes/fittings and would run 450 GBP (including VAT). Finally, Mr. Girling confirmed that the delivery time would be 4-5 months from date of order.


Is that price really right?! It makes it about the same as RTW EG in London and only about another hundred more than C&J handgrades, which is VERY compelling!

Poohs


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## centipede (Aug 27, 2006)

GAZIANO&GIRLING RTW Alfa prototype add
https://centipede.web.fc2.com/


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

centipede said:


> GAZIANO&GIRLING RTW Alfa prototype add
> https://centipede.web.fc2.com/


Centipede, what is that list? Are the shoes for sale or just on display?


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

Roger said:


> The various models would be available in all colors, lasts, and sizes/fittings and would run 450 GBP (including VAT).


Very attractive shoes and a _very_ attractive price!

I sadly cannot attend next week's event since although I'm in London in the early part of the week I have to be back in Oxford on Thursday. 

I wonder if there's anywhere else to view the shoes in person before considering an order - either a store or factory presence? If the shoes are as beautiful in person as in pictures and the price that competitive, I can definitely see myself picking up a couple of pairs or so.


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## von Rothbart (May 17, 2005)

Roger said:


> The various models would be available in all colors, lasts, and sizes/fittings and would run 450 GBP (including VAT).


Are you sure the price including VAT? That would make the price 383 GBP after VAT refund. That's a very good price!


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

von Rothbart said:


> Are you sure the price including VAT? That would make the price 383 GBP after VAT refund. That's a very good price!


I'm glad you asked, because I have further information. In Dean Girling's words, "the price is 450 GBP...that is inclusive of UK tax." From this, I have to assume that 450 GBP is with VAT. However, I received another e-mail from Dean today in which he said "I forgot to tell you there is a surcharge of 50 GBP per pair for stock specials." I have sent Dean another e-mail asking what exactly is meant by "stock specials," and thus can't say more until I hear back.

Nonetheless, if, in fact, the price will be 500 GBP for true special order with VAT, the price ex VAT will be about 425 ex VAT--still a real bargain for this quality of shoes.


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

Here is the answer I received,

"_Thank you for your inquiry our lasts are pretty much the same fit as Edward green's, so I would think you would need a UK 9.5 E fitting. Please look at our website for last shapes www.gazianogirling.com_​​​_The price of our shoes is £450 for standard styles and £495 for hand sewn styles, stock special orders carry a surcharge of £50 per pair these prices do include UK Tax._

_Kind Regards_

_Dean Girling"_

I am not sure what the difference is between "standard styles and stock special orders." That is what led me to believe they would be stocking a RTW line. If not, I don't know what the difference is between the MTO and the Bench Grade stock line if they make up the shoe when you request it.

Anyway you click it ummm I mean cut it, 450-500 less VAT is a great price point. Now the five month wait for the impulsive amongst us...(me  )...is another thing.

I wish the web site had a better display of leather colors and options.

In looking at the last designs (lef to right) would you say they are the same as the EG 82, 888, 202, 606, 65?

Some nice styles that are little more fashion forward than the EG line up.​


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Harrydog said:


> In looking at the last designs (lef to right) would you say they are the same as the EG 82, 888, 202, 606, 65?​


Yes, that's how it looks to me, although I'm sure that there are some differences -- the EG people would be justifiably upset if Tony just directly copied their lasts.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Tony designed the 82 and 888 lasts himself. He has said that he has since had ideas on how to improve the fit of all the main EG lasts, and that these ideas are incorporated into the G&G lasts.


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## centipede (Aug 27, 2006)

Roger said:


> Centipede, what is that list? Are the shoes for sale or just on display?


They are just collections. and, the the information offer.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

> ugh....


Sorry Bill, just kidding.


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

Just to provide some closure on prices and sizing, let me share what Dean Girling sent me in response to my e-mail:

"...all stock specials (MTO) carry a surcharge. Fittings are C, D, E, F."

This would seem to indicate that special order shoes (the only kind at the moment with no RTW stock) will be 500 GBP with VAT, and thus about 425 GBP ex VAT. This converts to about $800 US. Shipping would add another $25 to $40, I would imagine, so that you could have them for under $850 all in (except for, perhaps, duties and taxes). This strikes me as very good value for money.

As for widths, keep in mind that the fittings Dean mentioned correspond roughly to US widths of B, C, D, and E.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Roger, thank you for sharing this. Perhaps it would be most helpful if Mssrs Gaziano and Girling could compare their lasts and fittings with those of Edward Green. For those of us who know our best fittings in EG models, this would take much of the guesswork out of ordering.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

medwards said:


> Perhaps it would be most helpful if Mssrs Gaziano and Girling could compare their lasts and fittings with those of Edward Green. For those of us who know our best fittings in EG models, this would take much of the guesswork out of ordering.


I think what Harrydog posted is essentially correct, with some tweaking from the new team. But the fittings should be the same.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

I've not seen any reference to what the price of bespokes will be; does anyone know? (I know someone suggested it may be three times the price of RTW, but would like confirmation, if possible).


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

To my eye, the G&G lasts look somewhat different from the EG counterparts with which they've been matched a few posts back. In general, the G&G lasts seem to have less curvature from the ball to the toe than the EG lasts; they're more linear and slightly more pointed. In particular, the GG06 last doesn't look to me that similar to the EG202 (although this could be just the pictures, I guess). The EG202 seems wider at the ball of the foot than the GG06 and has greater curvature along the sides running to the toe, with the latter a little rounder on the EG202. From what I've seen, the GG06 seems sleeker than the EG202.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

Presuming we have a style and color in mind and know our EG size what is the next step in placing an order for RTW?

Perry


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

LARon said:


> I've not seen any reference to what the price of bespokes will be; does anyone know? (I know someone suggested it may be three times the price of RTW, but would like confirmation, if possible).


1540 GBP


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

pkincy said:


> Presuming we have a style and color in mind and know our EG size what is the next step in placing an order for RTW?


Well, if you can't make it to one of Tony's trunk shows, you can certainly call or e-mail.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Panzeraxe said:


> 1540 GBP


Thanks.


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

*Antiquing*

Just to add one final bit of information: I was curious about whether antiqued finishes would be the norm with G&G, as they are with EG. In response to my question, Dean Girling said that they have several antique-finished leathers (which they call _vintage_), and that there is no upcharge for an antiqued finish on a MTO shoe order.


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

Gaziano & Girling are having their London trunk show tomorrow.

I’ll pop along, ask as many questions as possible (till they throw me out)
and report my impressions later on here in this forum.

Is this a deal?


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

It's a deal. :icon_smile:


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

bengal-stripe said:


> I'll pop along, ask as many questions as possible (till they throw me out) and report my impressions later on here in this forum.


If it's appropriate, a photograph or two would be rather nice. :icon_smile_big:


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> If it's appropriate, a photograph or two would be rather nice. :icon_smile_big:


3 or 4 would be even better! hehe!!


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

*Gaziano & Girling hit the road.*

Today, Tony Gaziano and Dean Girling presented their collection for the very first time.

The majority of the shoes on show were the ready-to-wear / made-to-order range, all the 33 models which can be found in the catalogue and on the web. The shoes look in the flesh (or is it 'in the hide) much nicer than on the pictures. They are absolutely exquisitely made.

The secret of their bespoke look is the fact that they are only factory-made up to a certain point, and then Dean Girling finishes the shoes by hand. For those who care about a shapely waist (in a shoe that is), G&G shoes leave even John Lobb's (Paris) "Bootmaker" with extra fat around the midriff. Same thing applies to the heels, they have a much smaller footprint than other ready-to-wear shoes.

G&G RTW offer a quite wide selection of leathers (although not as wide as the bespoke selection, where the choice is literally hundred)s. Some are crust (unfinished) leathers that get died on the shoe, while others are aniline died.

There was very little of bespoke samples on show, I believe only two - plus a few samples demonstrating the various production stages (lasted, welted, sole halfway stitched).

There are negotiations with retailers going on. Hopefully G&G shoe will be sold in your friendly neighbourhood store before long.

I wish Tony Gaziano and Dean Girling all the best for the future. They must be indeed a couple of brave men, to venture into dress shoes, in these days of sneakers and trainers.

P.S. I placed an order for the "Cannes" (Venetian loafer with hand-stitched apron) in dark blue.


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## MadViking (Sep 22, 2006)

Some pictures for your indulgence:

https://all-around-me.blogspot.com/2006/09/shoe-porn.html


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Oh my...I think I just had a small one....


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## outrigger (Aug 12, 2006)

This all sounds very promising. I wish G&G all the very best for the futue.
And thank you for sharing, Your thoughts with the forum.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Received my catalog today.  Anyone else?

Very well done with any gorgeous shoes.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Artisan Fan said:


> Received my catalog today.  Anyone else?
> 
> Very well done with any gorgeous shoes.


Mine came earlier this week. The austerity brogues and quarter brogues are stunning.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

> The austerity brogues and quarter brogues are stunning.


Agreed. I also like the blend of textures on that Astaire.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

bengal-stripe said:


> P.S. I placed an order for the "Cannes" (Venetian loafer with hand-stitched apron) in dark blue.


I like it, because it is a Venetian loafer, because it has the Dover-style (or would that be Hove-style?) apron and toe seam, and because you chose dark blue. What about the quality of the handsewing vis-a-vis Edward Green's?


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

jcusey said:


> What about the quality of the handsewing vis-a-vis Edward Green's?


On the G&G samples I have seen, the standard of hand stitching is excellent and right up there in quality with EG. This applies to the EG-type "blanket-stitch", as well as to the "pinch-stitch" (pick up a fold within a piece of leather and fix it permanently with a row of stitches).

The one question I have, and only time can tell, can these standards be maintained once G&G's order books are full? It's one thing to make up some samples or produce the (smallish) number of made-to-order shoes which are ordered at one of the trunk shows. Once you have store xxx ordering 144 pairs of "Hove" (which have to be delivered at a certain date), can you still keep up the quality. It's the same thing for the manipulations and bespoke techniques Dean Girling uses on the semi-finished factory-made product. Will they fall by the wayside, once quantity orders have to be filled.

I presume Gaziano and Girling are aware of that (potential) danger and do not allow standards of craftsmanship to slip once the range is a huge success.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

bengal-stripe said:


> The one question I have, and only time can tell, can these standards be maintained once G&G's order books are full? It's one thing to make up some samples or produce the (smallish) number of made-to-order shoes which are ordered at one of the trunk shows. Once you have store xxx ordering 144 pairs of "Hove" (which have to be delivered at a certain date), can you still keep up the quality. It's the same thing for the manipulations and bespoke techniques Dean Girling uses on the semi-finished factory-made product. Will they fall by the wayside, once quantity orders have to be filled.
> 
> I presume Gaziano and Girling are aware of that (potential) danger and do not allow standards of craftsmanship to slip once the range is a huge success.


Well, if it's Dean Girling who is using all of the bespoke techniques on the semi-finished factory-made shoes, they certainly will fall by the wayside. There are only 24 hours in a day, and he does have other responsibilities. My hope, though, is he will be able to train the factory personnel in these techniques to his satisfaction before order volume makes it a problem.

The GG factory-made shoes represent one of the most exciting developments in RTW in recent years. I wish them well, both for their sakes and for my own.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

And do we know which factory they will be employing?


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

medwards said:


> And do we know which factory they will be employing?


No. At least I don't. I asked Tony, and he artfully refused to answer. He did say that all or most of the Northamptonshire factories were capable of making shoes to the standards that EG uses and that his shoes would be made on a separate production line from the factory's regular production (so the one doesn't corrupt the other, he said).


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

I got that very same information and I didn’t question Tony any further.


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## iyorito (Aug 18, 2005)

Thank you all for your support. We really appreciate it. Thank you. We will keep on comming up with new styles so please check our websites from time to time.


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

*No shell cordovan in RTW or MTO*

Just heard from Dean Girling to the effect that there will be no shell cordovan in the RTW or MTO lines, but they will use it in the bespoke shoes.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Roger said:


> Just heard from Dean Girling to the effect that there will be no shell cordovan in the RTW or MTO lines, but they will use it in the bespoke shoes.


Really? I don't think that I have ever seen a bespoke shell cordovan shoe from Tony.

(And as an aside, is there any British bespoke cordwainer who doesn't think in his heart of hearts that shell cordovan is crap?)


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

jcusey said:


> Really? I don't think that I have ever seen a bespoke shell cordovan shoe from Tony.
> 
> (And as an aside, is there any British bespoke cordwainer who doesn't think in his heart of hearts that shell cordovan is crap?)


I don't believe they try to keep that opinion a secret either.


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

jcusey said:


> Really? I don't think that I have ever seen a bespoke shell cordovan shoe from Tony.


 Really. I don't make this stuff up! His words were (to my question about whether shell cordovan would be available in MTO): "We only do Cordovan in bespoke at the moment."



> (And as an aside, is there any British bespoke cordwainer who doesn't think in his heart of hearts that shell cordovan is crap?)


Is it that they think shell cordovan is crap or rather that they find it very difficult to work with? Vass, Santoni, Carmina, et al., don't seem to think it's crap. Just out of curiosity, Jcusey, what do you think of shell cordovan for shoes?


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Roger said:


> Is it that they think shell cordovan is crap or rather that they find it very difficult to work with?


Well, to some extent, it's the same thing, isn't it? :icon_smile_wink: Crup has traditionally been used for laborers' shoes, and I would imagine that most British makers still make that association. Why should they go through the trouble of using it when it makes a common shoe anyway, they probably think.



> Vass, Santoni, Carmina, et al., don't seem to think it's crap. Just out of curiosity, Jcusey, what do you think of shell cordovan for shoes?


I don't know about Santoni, Carmina, and the rest, but I do know that Mr. Vass hates the stuff. If Germany weren't such an important market for him and if the Germans weren't gaga over shell cordovan, I have no doubt that he wouldn't use it. As for me, I like the variety that shell cordovan brings, but I don't really understand the fuss.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

so who's put their order in??


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

Roger said:


> Really. I don't make this stuff up! His words were (to my question about whether shell cordovan would be available in MTO): "We only do Cordovan in bespoke at the moment."


This statement is really a corollary of "bespoke is anything that customer wants". It does ot mean that they have any good will towards shell cordovan.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

luk-cha said:


> so who's put their order in??


We're waiting for you to order first. :icon_smile_wink:

I have an appointment with Tony when he visits the US in mid-October, and I imagine that I will succumb.


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## harrybee (Jul 17, 2006)

How can one order in England?


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

harrybee said:


> How can one order in England?


Too bad you missed the show in London on September 22. I would contact Dean Girling ([email protected]), but I imagine that Tony and/or Dean will periodically be in London and available to show the shoes going forward and that you could order then.


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## harrybee (Jul 17, 2006)

jcusey said:


> Too bad you missed the show in London on September 22. I would contact Dean Girling ([email protected]), but I imagine that Tony and/or Dean will periodically be in London and available to show the shoes going forward and that you could order then.


Thanks, jcusey.

I'll email them and ask for their schedule.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

jcusey said:


> We're waiting for you to order first. :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> I have an appointment with Tony when he visits the US in mid-October, and I imagine that I will succumb.


mine's in chap ;-P


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

luk-cha said:


> mine's in chap ;-P


Not fair to tell us that and not tell us what you ordered. 

For myself, I am considering the Hughes or the Savoy in tobacco suede.


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## Pickwick (Dec 24, 2005)

jcusey said:


> In addition, there are no Balmoral models (in the British sense of the word), which I think would be a good addition.


Can you elaborate on what you mean by "in the British sense of the word?"

Thanks!


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

jcusey said:


> Not fair to tell us that and not tell us what you ordered.
> 
> For myself, I am considering the Hughes or the Savoy in tobacco suede.


sorry for tootsy teasing!! lol!

i have order a grant, mitchell!
grant in vintage rioja anf the mitchell in vintage cedar

the savoy is on my want list too i am also considering the hayes too not sure as to which colors yet thro'!


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Pickwick said:


> Can you elaborate on what you mean by "in the British sense of the word?"Thanks!


While the term "balmoral" in the United States is often used as a somewhat generic term to designate any style of oxford shoe (ie...a closed-throat lace-up), in Britain it refers to a very specific style of oxford which can be seen in the following Cleverley model. Note the line that runs horizontally along the shoe:

https://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=balmoralwk2.jpg


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## harrybee (Jul 17, 2006)

I too think they should add this (GG bespoke) to their ready made collection right away. So stylish and beautiful!


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## Pickwick (Dec 24, 2005)

medwards said:


> Note the line that runs horizontally along the shoe


Oh, I see now.

Many thanks, appreciate it!


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

medwards said:


> While the term "balmoral" in the United States is often used as a somewhat generic term to designate any style of oxford shoe (ie...a closed-throat lace-up), in Britain it refers to a very specific style of oxford which can be seen in the following Cleverley model. Note the line that runs horizontally along the shoe:
> 
> https://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=balmoralwk2.jpg


Do you mean the cap toe?


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

No, the horizontal seam and punching that runs along the side of the shoe.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

LARon said:


> Do you mean the cap toe?


No. Here's a standard Oxford (the picture is of an Edward Green shoe, stolen from the Sky Valet website):

See how the seam that runs just below the laces goes towards the heel of the shoe for a few inches, then curves down to the sole? That's what makes it a standard Oxford. On a Balmoral, however, that seem continues straight all the way to the heel of the shoe. Notice the difference in this picture:


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## Pickwick (Dec 24, 2005)

luk-cha said:


> mine's in chap ;-P


Me too, just ordered 2 pairs today.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

jcusey said:


> No. Here's a standard Oxford (the picture is of an Edward Green shoe, stolen from the website):
> 
> See how the seam that runs just below the laces goes towards the heel of the shoe for a few inches, then curves down to the sole? That's what makes it a standard Oxford. On a Balmoral, however, that seem continues straight all the way to the heel of the shoe. Notice the difference in this picture:


I see; thanks for educating me. (I'm amazed at how much I learn from you guys. I almost feel I should pay a membership fee to keep company with most of the members here.)

Its a wonderful place to grow.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

Pickwick said:


> Me too, just ordered 2 pairs today.


what did you order?


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## Pickwick (Dec 24, 2005)

luk-cha said:


> what did you order?


The Rothschild (TG73 last) in vintage oak, and the Hughes (DG70 last) in vintage cognac, and both with oak bark soles.

I'm also considering the Grant and Gable.

How about you? Other colors you're considering for future orders?


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

Pickwick said:


> The Rothschild (TG73 last) in vintage oak, and the Hughes (DG70 last) in vintage cognac, and both with oak bark soles.
> 
> I'm also considering the Grant and Gable.
> 
> How about you? Other colors you're considering for future orders?


savoy's and hayes as for colors i am not 100% i would like a olive and a vintage oak if! but what i might ask and see if the can send leather samples when the send them to me! but i will buy mine like noah 2 at a time!


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

*Another G&G report*

Cross-posted on SF; my apologies to those who abhor the practice. But there is interest in these shoes on both sites.

In no particular order:


The catalogue photos do not do these shoes justice; you really have to see them in person.

These are just about the most bespoke-looking RTW shoes I have ever seen. The heel treatment is better than anything out there. The waist bevelling is a shade behind Lobb Prestige, but the fiddling is better. The shape of the sole is also better. The finishing exceeds Green, certainly, and Lobb, maybe.

There are four main lasts, which Tony and Dean refer to as "smart round," "soft round, "smart square," and "soft square." Basically, the smart versions are narrower and little more defined. I preferred the soft versions, though I could see a place for the smart square. I did not love the smart round, though perhaps it will grow on me. The first impression it made on me was "Too pointy." Soft round is like a mean between 202 and 82; smart round is more aggressive than 82. Smart square is little nicer than 888; soft square is significantly nicer than 606. Or so I thought.

The overall lines of the lasts are otherwise basically the same, and very well done. These are classic lasts in that the inside lines are almost dead straight, and the outside quite curved. To really appreciate the lasts, pick up a shoe and look at it head-on. The tops are far from parallel to the sole, but really slope downward from inside to out, like a bespoke last. Also, the throat noticably cants outward, rather like this (taken from Dmitri Gomez's website):

The emphasis is on contemporary and unusual designs. They want to distinguish themselves from the pack, and of course from Green. Plus, Tony really likes to do new and unusual stuff and I think enjoys designing more than making. There are a few classics in the line but they are the minority. Tony made clear that he considers those obligatory, and really has little personal interest in them. Nonetheless, he did a hell of a job with them.

Highlights (for me): The plain black stitch cap was a thing of beauty. Such a boring shoe, so well done. The vamp seam sweeps much further back than is typical, all the way to where the heel meets the waist. The punch cap, also lovely. The austerity brogue rivals the C&J Tavistock in terms of design, and of course beats it in terms of make. The plain toe monk is hands-down the best RTW monk I have seen (excluding Jermyn II, which is really a different shoe). It has lovely V-cut quarters, a nicely swept-back strap, and a lovely burnished brass buckle of an unsual shape (not the typical, bland, rounded-corner rectangle). This last point is a small one, but it shows how well Tony and Dean have thought through the little things. I wanted to love the Adelaide brogue, but the pointy throat corners put me off.

It's been a while since I last thumbed the EG swatches, but the leathers G&G had on hand seemed better to me. Better, richer, more varied colors. I have never seen so many distinctive and attractive shades of brown. Choosing is _hard_. A lot of the reddish browns were also lovely. Alas, I still could not cross the bridge into burgundy calf. Sorry, JLib. The reverse calf suede they call "Polo" (chocolate) is the nicest non-bespoke suede I can ever recall seeing
.


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

Manton,

Thanks for the very informative review. I think I may just have to do an MTO with G&G...(bespoke being a bit out of my league.) The Green lasts work on my foot pretty well....very snug, but I like that fit....and the way you describe the soft square last has me leaning in that direction.

Which browns did you find most appealing? As I recall, they have a perfed captoe that resembles the Lobb Sutton that I found quite appealing.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Harrydog said:


> Which browns did you find most appealing?


My memory is not good enough to recall all the names and match them to tones. There were so many. As I said, it is hard to choose. It's also hard to go wrong.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

manton, 
so which mto last comes most closely to JL brampton's last?
just in case you forget, brampton is the classic plain toe blucher with a round fuller toe than the 7000 i think.

so you are saying the finishes and leathers used surpasses JL classic museum calves?


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Brian13 said:


> so which mto last comes most closely to JL brampton's last?
> just in case you forget, brampton is the classic plain toe blucher with a round fuller toe than the 7000 i think.


From the pictures on the John Lobb Paris website, it looks to me like the Brampton is made on the 1105 last, which is probably closer in shape to the DG70 ("smart round last") than to the GG06 ("traditional round last").



> so you are saying the finishes and leathers used surpasses JL classic museum calves?


Don't get me wrong. I really like the JL Paris museum leathers. However, they aren't the end-all, be-all to leather. The mottled effect is created by sponging at the tannery while the leather is still wet, not by finishing after the shoe has been constructed. Other makers use this leather or similar (cf. EG's Cirrus leather and the Radica leather used by Gravati and Martegani, among others), but life would be very boring if this was all there is. The leathers that G&G use and the quality of finishing applied to them is excellent, if different from the look that you get from JL Paris's museum calf.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

*I contacted Dean Girling and Tony Gaziano*

Yesterday, I inquired about their MTO via email and today I received this promptly:

Dear Brian

Thank you for your inquiry, if I read correctly the style you are interested is the Hayes the price of that shoe is $485.00 + carriage which is approx $80.00 that includes our surcharge for made to order.
If you wish to purchase this shoe we need to know your correct shoe size, if you have had an English brand shoe before like an Edward Green or a Crockett & Jones our shoes will fit you much the same.
If you wish to order please contact us with your shoe size and choice of style, and we can put your order in to production with a 50% deposit.
Hope this has helped you.

Kind Regards

Dean Girling

Is it this easy to place an order with them? Wow, I am amazed, I thought I had to enroll in some special members only trunk show or something in some far away city.
How long does it take usually for them to send you a pair? Half a year, perhaps? I dont think I can be patient that long!
I am pretty sure he meant GBP price not USD above.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

They just started, so there is no benchmark for timing as yet. At their NYC trunk show (last week) they said orders placed then would likely ship next February. And, yes, while your numbers are correct, the price is pounds, not dollars. So, multiply by two, essentially. Ouch!


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Wow, that seems like an awfully low price.

EDIT: Oh, never mind...I missed the currency remark in manton's reply.


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## argoth (Oct 7, 2006)

At the trunk show in NYC, it was £435 + £50 MTO surcharge for shoes. I picked up the Hayes myself and this was the price quoted. Its lovelier in person than in the catalog.

I know what you mean about a test of patience, but we must be strong! :thumbs-up:

Arg


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

isnt the hayes rtw? 
is mto just any rtw shoe design choice with your style of leather? if so, then i dont mind whatever hayes leather comes in by default. save the mto charge, correct?


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

All their shoes are considered MTO right now. They don't have any stock.

--Andre


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

Yep - sadly enough its in pounds, so the cost is equivalent to EG MTO. I ordered the Hayes as well.

Panzer


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

me3.

.


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## Urbane Legend (Sep 7, 2006)

The Connaught for me.. The Hayes looked even better in person!


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

This is a cross-post from SF.

I received my first pair of G&G bespoke the other day, and I couldn't be happier with them! I gave Tony a rough idea of what I wanted stylistically, and he totally hit it out of the park. The initial fit seems to be very good, and he had a hard job balancing the needs of my much less than ideal feet, and his aesthetic, but I think he came through with flying colors. Hope you enjoy it!

--Andre

https://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggboxmn9.jpg
https://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggfrontpp2.jpg
https://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gginsidels2.jpg
https://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggoutsidebs5.jpg
https://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggrearpf8.jpg
https://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggtopfp3.jpg
https://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggunder1bf2.jpg
https://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggunder2vq7.jpg


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## dprof (Jul 15, 2006)

I like! - and I'm almost never a fan of the loafer, but those are well done!


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## augustin (Jan 19, 2007)

I especially like those side-on shots. How high is the heel? Perhaps better put, what design factor gives it such a lift at the arch?


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

double thumbs up!


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Damn cool shoes, Bro! Nice choice.

When did you order? I ordered when they were here in October and still haven't heard a peep; but I also haven't been expecting to hear anything since Tony indicated that they'd be back around March to do a second fitting (after which it might take another four to five weeks for the final product). How'd you get yours so quickly?


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

those are sweet horsebits!


if i had to wait several months for a mto perfect shoe it would drive me insane.
how can you order a shoe in october and still have to wait till march for a second fitting and then a few more weeks after that?

i cant even imagine what i would be going through waiting that long, probably would grind all my fingernails to a pulp against the walls or something.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Brian13 said:


> if i had to wait several months for a mto perfect shoe it would drive me insane.
> how can you order a shoe in october and still have to wait till march for a second fitting and then a few more weeks after that?
> 
> i cant even imagine what i would be going through waiting that long, probably would grind all my fingernails to a pulp against the walls or something.


Actually, mine are bespoke, not mto (not to mention that I ordered two pair, at that). So, I long ago put it out of my mind and settled in, zen-like, for the long march, 'til March.

To distract myself as we round the bend into the home stretch, I'm heading off for a two-week European vacation, the tail end of which will find me shopping for a suitable stop-gap in Budapest to see what the good folks at Vass have on display, before winding down my travels with two days in NYC for the upcoming Sartorial Excellence event.

By them, my zen-state will probably dissolve into a light froth leading toward to the type of fingernail mutilation you describe.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

you are lucky Ron. 2 week vacation in Europe. say hi to Eiko for me (chuckle), 

nice, have an absolute blast!


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

augustin said:


> How high is the heel? Perhaps better put, what design factor gives it such a lift at the arch?


The heel is 13/16-inches tall all around, from the bottom of the edge of the sole to the bottom of the heel. I'm not sure what gives it that lift, but it is an elegant looking line.

Ron, I started my order in Spring 2006, had my first fitting in October, and the shoes were ready around December, but the shoe trees were running behind schedule (its carving is outsourced and was running late, but its polishing is done by Tony), so I didn't get the shoes until recently.

I think the long schedule is much safer for wallets all around.  I can safely imagine a 1-2 bespoke shoe/year habit.

--Andre


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Thanks Brian.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Andre Yew said:


> Ron, I started my order in Spring 2006, had my first fitting in October, and the shoes were ready around December, but the shoe trees were running behind schedule (its carving is outsourced and was running late, but its polishing is done by Tony), so I didn't get the shoes until recently.
> 
> I think the long schedule is much safer for wallets all around.  I can safely imagine a 1-2 bespoke shoe/year habit.
> 
> --Andre


I see; makes sense. I completely agree about the potential for addiction. I've already got my next pair in mind. If the two I commissioned come out as expected (and your result certainly leads me to believe that will be the case), I'll be ordering a pair of bespoke monks.


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

LARon said:


> Actually, mine are bespoke, not mto (not to mention that I ordered two pair, at that).


I do not understand your: "at that"

At least, I ordered two pairs on the first bespoke order ever. I didn't regret. But, I wouldn't do it again. It's sort of no go.

@LARon
If the two I commissioned come out as expected (and your result certainly leads me to believe that will be the case).

You didn't order a Big Mac in a different Mcd spot, did you.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

fritzl said:


> I do not understand your: "at that"
> 
> Meaning, two pair might take even longer to deliver than just one (for example, they could made at different times, extending the time that I would receive either)
> 
> You didn't order a Big Mac in a different Mcd spot, did you.


I have no idea what this means fritzl.


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## hmhill (Apr 30, 2005)

Andre,

Your shoes look great. It was nice to hear you just received you shoes since I also ordered my shoes in March with the second fitting in October. I haven't received my shoes yet but the anticipation is killing me

Max


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

i think the new generation of their shoes will really put G&G in a league of their own and putting them at what i think will be the top spot in the bespoke shoe business!


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

These are beautiful shoes, but a little too styled for my taste and too pointey for my wide feet.
I will stay with EG for the time being. 
Perhaps, eventually, Cleverley, for bespoke emphasizing fit over style.
Nonetheless, these are beautiful shoes.
Regards,
Gurdon


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

LARon said:


> I have no idea what this means fritzl.


I knew that.

To be honest, am not a fan of TG.

[lancepryor] In an earlier response, you mentioned closing. I would have assumed that you are not doing closing yourself. Is that right?

[tonyg] I do a little closing when I get time, I love to use a closing machine and also play around with it to see how fine I can get the stitching, I learned how to close when I worked in Cheaney's years ago and I close a pair once in a blue moon just in case I forget .

[tonyg] I can just about make a pair all through but very rarely find the time to do so, when I decide to do it, I normally make a pair for myself rather than a customer.

Whole interview:

TG is a designer and a showman, he is not a shoemaker in the common sense.

But the most important thing is, that you like your shoes and enjoys them.

Cheers

PS: I liked your report on older versus younger women, fantastic.


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## blnee (Oct 21, 2005)

fritzl said:


> PS: I liked your report on older versus younger women, fantastic.


Is there a link to this? Wouldn't mind reading about women at all...


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

fritzl said:


> PS: I liked your report on older versus younger women, fantastic.


Thank you.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

blnee said:


> Is there a link to this? Wouldn't mind reading about women at all...


Its over on SF, on the Social Life board, post #52.


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

fritzl said:


> TG is a designer and a showman, he is not a shoemaker in the common sense.


Fritzl, 
I think you misunderstand the way London firms work. (This applies to shoemakers, tailors or shirt makers equally). Kingpin is the last maker (cutter in tailoring). He is the person who has the ultimate responsibility for the finished product. In shoemaking the last decides how a shoe will look, just as it is the cut pieces of cloth in tailoring. Last makers usually make the pattern and cut (click) the leather for the uppers as well. In the pattern you decide on the proportions.

"Closing" the stitching together of the various pieces to form "the uppers" is (usually) done by specialist firms. You need a sharp eye, a steady hand and many years of experience in operating a sewing machine. Every town with a shoemaking tradition has specialist firms who do that work (and nothing else). As a closer, if the pattern is bad, there is not a great deal you can do. The same thing as in tailoring, you can mess it up with shoddy workmanship but you can't do much more than excellent work, i.e. you stitch straight and with the correct tension.

Then the finished shaft returns to the last maker/designer and gets sent to a 'maker', an individual (working freelance) who does nothing else but stitch uppers to soles. He is not concerned with the design, only with the quality of the 'making'. He is likely to acquire a higher level of skill than the shoemaker who does everything.

If you get a birthday cake from the patisserie around the corner, the boss and his two employees will do everything. If you go to Sacher or Demel, depending on your requests they might get a specialist in, to do the decoration. There must be one person in Vienna who is the absolute best in decorating a cake with a bouquet of red roses in spun sugar and another one who carves animals out of blocks of ice better than anyone else. The decorator has no say in what goes into the dough that makes the actual cake. That's the job of the catering manger who organizes the whole operation with military precision. That's what a cutter, a wedding planner or an interior designer does, they have contacts and know what is available on the market and what can be utilized for a certain job.

That is the way all London firms work, be they tailors or shoemakers. They use outworkers who specialise in one particular task. It's an ancient operating model and has been around since Victorian days, or maybe even earlier. There are people that operate different models, John Lobb (Paris) has a large workroom and employs people who specialize in particular tasks. Dimitri Gomez in Paris or Jan Myhre in Oslo like to do most tasks (if not everything) themselves.

P.S. By the way, in the German/Austrian master craft tradition, "Schuhmacher" und "Schaftmacher" (closer) are two different crafts.


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

btw, has anyone received their MTO G&G's yet?


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

bengal-stripe said:


> Fritzl,
> I think you misunderstand the way London firms work. (This applies to shoemakers, tailors or shirt makers equally). Kingpin is the last maker (cutter in tailoring). He is the person who has the ultimate responsibility for the finished product. In shoemaking the last decides how a shoe will look, just as it is the cut pieces of cloth in tailoring. Last makers usually make the pattern and cut (click) the leather for the uppers as well. In the pattern you decide on the proportions.
> 
> "Closing" the stitching together of the various pieces to form "the uppers" is (usually) done by specialist firms. You need a sharp eye, a steady hand and many years of experience in operating a sewing machine. Every town with a shoemaking tradition has specialist firms who do that work (and nothing else). As a closer, if the pattern is bad, there is not a great deal you can do. The same thing as in tailoring, you can mess it up with shoddy workmanship but you can't do much more than excellent work, i.e. you stitch straight and with the correct tension.
> ...


Schön, dass wir uns einig sind. :idea:


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Andre Yew said:


> https://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggunder2vq7.jpg


Is this what's known as a fiddle-back waist?


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Panzeraxe said:


> btw, has anyone received their MTO G&G's yet?


No. I hear that it will be March.



Orgetorix said:


> Is this what's known as a fiddle-back waist?


Yes.


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

Andre Yew said:


> https://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ggfrontpp2.jpg


First, the only thing that matters is that you are happy with this pair of shoes. They certainly look _stylish_.

Second, they do remind me of the Edward Green Millfield, which I do not believe is still in the EG catalogue...but it wouldn't surprise me that it would be a model that Mr Gaziano would favour.

Third, I have to confess that I find the design a bit too busy and stylized for _my_ tastes. It simply has too much going on. The rings are too large, the toe stitching too pronounced and deep. The image I take away is of a bespectacled duck.

Fourth, my guess, however, (and it is only a guess) is that this is where Gaziano & Girling want to place themselves in the bespoke shoe market: somewhere beyond the traditional and classic, with newer lines and fashion forward details, stylized without becoming too outre. I can well understand why they are spending a fair amount of time in the Japanese market.

Fifth (and first), the only thing that matters is that you are happy with this pair of shoes.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

Andrew, I LOVE that pair of bit loafers. They are the most decadent horsebit loafers I have ever seen.
Truly an amazing waist on that shoe!


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Fourth, my guess, however, (and it is only a guess) is that this is where Gaziano & Girling want to place themselves in the bespoke shoe market: somewhere beyond the traditional and classic, with newer lines and fashion forward details, stylized without becoming too outre. I can well understand why they are spending a fair amount of time in the Japanese market.
> 
> Fifth (and first), the only thing that matters is that you are happy with this pair of shoes.


Just like Bentley did when it introduced the Continental a few years back; completely overwhelmed the market, which had come to mistake stodgy for elegant. Sometimes, the artisan leads demand, sometimes he just frees it. Once while touring the Uffizi, our guide attributed to Michelangelo the following statement: I don't create images from stone; they call to me to free them from within.

In a similar vein, I think Gaziano is simply giving voice/shape to demand that already exists, but just hasn't, until now, found an artisan who could hear it.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

Panzeraxe said:


> btw, has anyone received their MTO G&G's yet?


I don't know about the MTOs, but I received an e-mail two days ago saying they won't be back in the states until probably late April (for those of you waiting on second fittings on bespokes). They're also expanding the number of cities they'll be visiting. Stay tuned for details.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> First, the only thing that matters is that you are happy with this pair of shoes. They certainly look _stylish_.
> 
> Second, they do remind me of the Edward Green Millfield, which I do not believe is still in the EG catalogue...but it wouldn't surprise me that it would be a model that Mr Gaziano would favour.
> 
> ...


i think you are intitleed to your opinion, but just look at those babies sitting there the have the profile of a sports car - i also agree with what Ron said to update first you might shock a few people but if you dont do this then style will never evolve just like the bentley - and now look even the good old rolls have moved forward in a simular fashion too! as TG is only in his mid 30's then his market of 30+ and younger are the people you need to be able to have a long life and for his company to develop and gain market share. the last thing also is project brief AY gave TG a blank canvas, now if you said i want something less stylised then it will be a peice of cake for them as you can see from the previous EG bespoke shoes!


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> First, the only thing that matters is that you are happy with this pair of shoes. They certainly look _stylish_.


Thanks for your thoughtful comments, and no offense is taken at all. There are lots of different tastes out there, and lots of different shoemakers to serve them all. Thank goodness for variety!

--Andre


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

This is a blatant lift from a Style Forum thread, but centipede, the proprietor of just about the best Japanese shoe porn sites around, has posted pictures of the G&G Tokyo trunk show, including some shots of new bespoke samples. Lots of good stuff, including a crocodile (or is it alligator?) chukka boot and a diamond tip side elastic in tobacco suede.


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

So the first three pics are MTO? If this is so G&G are about to rule the RTW market. Look at the waist on those!!


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Chris Rimby said:


> So the first three pics are MTO? If this is so G&G are about to rule the RTW market. Look at the waist on those!!


The first picture is of the factory-made MTO/RTW samples. Every other picture is of the bespoke samples.

I think (and I believe that I have written earlier in this thread) that G&G's MTO/RTW shoes are the best made factory manufactured British shoes that I have seen. I also happen to like a number of the models offered, although I can see where they might not be for some people. However, G&G's ability to rule the RTW market depends on a lot more than the quality and appearance of their shoes. I wish them the best, both because I like both of them and want them to succeed and because I like their shoes and want them to be generally available. However, establishing a new brand, particularly one at this price point, will be difficult.


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

This is still good news as the shoes in the first pic are my favorites.

You make a very valid point on starting a new high-end RTW shoe company. Most people I know think that $285 is an absurd amount of money to spend on shoes, much less $850+. 

It's rare to encounter the type of shoe enthusiasts we see on this board.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Chris Rimby said:


> You make a very valid point on starting a new high-end RTW shoe company. Most people I know think that $285 is an absurd amount of money to spend on shoes, much less $850+.
> 
> It's rare to encounter the type of shoe enthusiasts we see on this board.


We do egg each other on, don't we?

The market for $850 shoes is vanishingly small, but I do think that G&G has a legitimate opportunity here. Consider their two nearest competitors: JL Paris and EG. JL Paris's prices have risen significantly faster than the rate of inflation, and the Prestige line models are within shouting distance of $1500 per pair. If the market for $850 shoes is vanishingly small, the market for $1440 shoes is much smaller; and I would think that G&G has an opportunity to capture some of the consumers who like JL Paris shoes but have been unable to stomach the price increases. EG has lost a number of accounts in the US because of their inability to deliver shoes in a consistent and timely manner. One would think that G&G would have a chance with every one of those accounts; and if they can deliver the shoes consistently and on time where EG couldn't, the opportunity could be a very good one. Anyway, time will tell. As I wrote, I hope that Tony and Dean succeed.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

The brown suede shoes at the Tokyo show are incredible. G&G are doing some amazing work.

I think EG would benefit from some more U.S. locations. Even for us fans, the inaccessability and pricing are getting ridiculous.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

My god, why don't guys cut it out with these teasing posts. Its pure torture!!!

I'm four months into my wait for two pair of bespoke and each new post is increasing my anticipation and anxiety. 

AF, you're absolutely right about those brown suedes; friggin' gorgeous. :icon_smile: I ordered that same V front in a cognac colored calf, 3-eye tie-up. I'm dyin' to see it; just dyin'.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

jcusey said:


> EG has lost a number of accounts in the US because of their inability to deliver shoes in a consistent and timely manner. One would think that G&G would have a chance with every one of those accounts; and if they can deliver the shoes consistently and on time where EG couldn't, the opportunity could be a very good one.


They are quoting four months for MTO which is longer than EG currently but if the shoes arrive when promised they will be successful. The world needs them (I know it's not World Peace but still...).


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

medwards said:


> Speaking of illustrations, it would seem appropriate to include a link to centepede's wonderful as part of this discussion of Gaziano & Girling offerings.


BTW, this site has now been updated to include 183 images of Tony Gaziano-made bespoke shoes.


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## jjl5000 (May 14, 2006)

I was once again perusing the G&G web site when I spotted a forthcoming stockist: Edwards of Manchester.

Being only 50 miles away, this represents a great opportunity to see and try the shoes on. I phoned the shop to find out when they were expecting sufficient stock for a fitting. It turns out Tony will be at the shop next month (2nd) to take MTO & bespoke orders. Great! I booked a 30 minute slot for a couple of pairs of MTO.

I understand from conversations with the proprietor of Edwards, that Tony will likely be willing to accommodate styles not currently in the RTW collection. I must admit I didn't think that would be the case. As others may be aware from my previous posts, I am rather partial to adelaides, whilst G&G have quite a number, their interpretations are a little stylised where I would prefer something more conventional such as EG's 'Canterbury'.

Anyway, I am very much looking forward to seeing the shoes and meeting Tony.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Leon posted this link in a separate thread, but I thought it worth linking here as well for future reference. It is a March 16 Financial Times article on G&G and its evolving place in the bespoke shoe firmament.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

jjl5000 said:


> I was once again perusing the G&G web site when I spotted a forthcoming stockist: Edwards of Manchester.


I see that they've also added Upper, a shoe store in Toulouse to their list of forthcoming stockists. Here's to hoping that there will be more.


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

jjl5000 said:


> I understand from conversations with the proprietor of Edwards, that Tony will likely be willing to accommodate styles not currently in the RTW collection. I must admit I didn't think that would be the case.


Can anyone confirm if this is in fact the case? I have an appointment with G&G in April for an MTO fitting and would love to know whether I can pursue styles or options not shown in their catalogue. For example I'd love to get something with a lacing like below - (is that called a ghillie?) A salesmen at Paul Stuart was sporting a similar shoe made a number of years ago by Edward Green for Stuarts Choice.

I suspect the answer is "No", but I can dream for a bit.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Harrydog said:


> Can anyone confirm if this is in fact the case? I have an appointment with G&G in April for an MTO fitting and would love to know whether I can pursue styles or options not shown in their catalogue. For example I'd love to get something with a lacing like below - (is that called a ghillie?) A salesmen at Paul Stuart was sporting a similar shoe made a number of years ago by Edward Green for Stuarts Choice.
> 
> I suspect the answer is "No", but I can dream for a bit.


That is indeed ghillie lacing, and I strongly suspect that Tony and Dean would not do it for RTW/MTO because it would require cutting a completely new pattern. Adding or removing brogueing or toe caps or substituting a straight cap for a wing cap or vice versa are all relatively easy adjustments to make, and it wouldn't surprise me if G&G were willing to do this sort of thing, either for a complete size run purchased by a retailer or on a single pair of MTO shoes. Cutting a new pattern, however, would be another matter entirely, particularly when that new pattern has something so idiosyncratic as ghillie lacing.


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

Judging by the initials on the shoe trees, these bespoke ghillie brogues were made for a very snappy dresser, who is known to spend a buck or two on his clobber. Of course, G&G would be pleased to make you this style as a bespoke order.

As far as I know, they do not offer this design as made-to-order. Maybe they will at some later point, but I rather doubt it, as I cannot see this particular style selling like the proverbial hotcakes. Both EG and JL(Paris) have a ghillie brogue in their portfolio and would be your best bet for a top-quality MTO. Alternatively try to find a Scottish shoe retailer, they all seem to offer (cheap and nasty) black ghillies, probably aimed mainly at tourists.

https://www.men-in-kilts.com/brogues.html


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

Also St. Crispin's:

https://imageshack.us


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## Bertie Wooster (Feb 11, 2006)

bengal-stripe said:


> Alternatively try to find a Scottish shoe retailer, they all seem to offer (cheap and nasty) black ghillies, probably aimed mainly at tourists.
> 
> https://www.men-in-kilts.com/brogues.html


Worth noting that ghillie brogues intended to be worn with the kilt rarely ( if ever ? ) have a tounge whilst the ones Harry pictured do.


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

bengal-stripe said:


> Judging by the initials on the shoe trees, these bespoke ghillie brogues were made for a very snappy dresser, who is known to spend a buck or two on his clobber. Of course, G&G would be pleased to make you this style as a bespoke order.
> 
> As far as I know, they do not offer this design as made-to-order. Maybe they will at some later point, but I rather doubt it, as I cannot see this particular style selling like the proverbial hotcakes. Both EG and JL(Paris) have a ghillie brogue in their portfolio and would be your best bet for a top-quality MTO. Alternatively try to find a Scottish shoe retailer, they all seem to offer (cheap and nasty) black ghillies, probably aimed mainly at tourists.
> 
> https://www.men-in-kilts.com/brogues.html


What is the name of the EG made ghillie?


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

Sorry, don't know.

The JL version is called 'Scott' (how original) and hasn't got a tongue.
https://centipede.web.fc2.com/lobbparisscott.html

Maybe the EG has no tongue either.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

An Edward Green version pictured in Savile Row Style Magazine


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

medwards said:


> An Edward Green version pictured in Savile Row Style Magazine


I'm pretty sure those pictures are of old Gaziano-made bespoke samples, and not Top Drawer. In fact, I am 99% sure. Which is to say, you can't get those shoes from Green any more.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

I believe you are correct, but it couldn't hurt to check with Hilary Freeman.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

medwards said:


> I believe you are correct, but it couldn't hurt to check with Hilary Freeman.


An excellent idea because EG does indeed have a ghillie-laced model, named the Glyndibourne:

Here's the JL Paris Scott:

And another rendering, this time in a spectator:

(The first and third image from Part I of TimelessRider's shoe picture blog. The second image is from von Rothbart's shoe pictorial index thread on SF.)


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Chris Rimby said:


> Also St. Crispin's:
> 
> https://imageshack.us


Gravati has a similar tunnel-style ghillie lace pattern, and they will put it on whatever blucher you want them to.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

i have seen ghillies before , but sorry, it is just not for me.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

One of the two styles for which I have a have a low level lust (the other is these Prestwicks).

https://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=egprestwickssy7.jpg


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## jjl5000 (May 14, 2006)

I met Tony for the first time today and he was a very pleasant chap indeed. He explained how the latest RTW shoes feature even more refinement of the waist and pronounced fiddling as well as more antiquing on the uppers. Tony did show me an older pair compared to his latest samples and there is a discernible improvement.

The shoes were much better looking in the flesh and consequently I ended up ordering two pairs I had previously dismissed based on the standard catalogue pictures. I explored the boundaries of the MTO program and this confirmed you can add, remove or swap medallions, remove a heel counter or toecap but that's it.

The RTW shoe trees are lasted (not included) and the shoe bags embroidered with the GG logo. All in all, a quite stunning collection of shoes and a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

_also posted on SF_

I ordered 'Savoy' in chestnut without the heel counter and 'Hughes' in rosewood without the heel counter & medallion. Shoe trees (mahogany) for both of course.


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

So, has anyone in the U.S. received their G&G MTOs from the Oct. visit?


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## G-man (Jul 6, 2005)

Have not received them yet, but did get an email from Tony stating they were due to be sent soon. He even showed me a picture of the finished product. Beautiful.


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

G-man said:


> Have not received them yet, but did get an email from Tony stating they were due to be sent soon. He even showed me a picture of the finished product. Beautiful.


I don't suppose you want to hook us up with that picture do ya?


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## G-man (Jul 6, 2005)

My office filters access to the photo posting websites. I can email it to someone and they could try to post it.


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

G-man said:


> My office filters access to the photo posting websites. I can email it to someone and they could try to post it.


Sure I'll do that for ya!

Send it here: [email protected]


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

*Hardcore Porn*

Here's the pic of G-man's outrageously beautiful G&G:

https://imageshack.us


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

wow - very nice. what color are those?


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't answer that but for the moment I'm going to go with:

"Eternal Burnt Decadent Glorious Pine"


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## G-man (Jul 6, 2005)

I told Tony I wanted a coloring similar to what Edward Green calls "Edwardian".


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

G-man, you did well. Beautiful shoe and color.


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

I am assuming that is the smart square last?


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Panzeraxe said:


> I am assuming that is the smart square last?


Those look bespoke to me. The RTW/MTO samples that I have seen look very good, but they don't look _that_ good.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

jcusey said:


> Those look bespoke to me. The RTW/MTO samples that I have seen look very good, but they don't look _that_ good.


Yeah, that's a bespoke shoe. They don't make that model RTW, I don't think. And those are definitely bespoke trees.


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

manton said:


> ...and those are definitely bespoke trees.


Whats the advantage of mahogany to beech tree?

I understand these are hollow shaped, aren't they?


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

fritzl said:


> Whats the advantage of mahogany to beech tree?


I'm sticking my head out (I've never discussed the shoe trees with Messrs G & G), but I would say 'Mahogany' refers to the stain, not the actual wood. True Mahogany (Honduras or Brazil) has become a rather rare and enormously expensive commodity, nobody would make shoe trees in such an expensive timber. Even African Mahogany (inferior to Latin America) is not a cheap. Assuming the actual material for the shoe trees is a tropical wood, it's probably something like Meranti or Obechi.

In general, shoe trees are made from whatever wood (preferably hard wood) is plentiful and cheap. American shoe trees used to be made in Maple, now it's Red Cedar (because it's cheap). Beech is the traditional wood of choice in Europe, because it's (relatively) plentiful.
https://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/

I would like my shoe trees in "Steamed Pear" (no, that's not a pudding).


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

bengal-stripe said:


> I'm sticking my head out (I've never discussed the shoe trees with Messrs G & G),


Wonder, how especially you could forget about this really essential topic.  Some say or better believe that Mr. T. is polishing the trees himself personally.



bengal-stripe said:


> but I would say 'Mahogany' refers to the stain, not the actual wood. True Mahogany (Honduras or Brazil) has become a rather rare and enormously expensive commodity, nobody would make shoe trees in such an expensive timber. Even African Mahogany (inferior to Latin America) is not a cheap. Assuming the actual material for the shoe trees is a tropical wood, it's probably something like Meranti or Obechi.
> 
> In general, shoe trees are made from whatever wood (preferably hard wood) is plentiful and cheap. American shoe trees used to be made in Maple, now it's Red Cedar (because it's cheap). Beech is the traditional wood of choice in Europe, because it's (relatively) plentiful.
> https://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/
> ...


Thanks for the expertise. Have to convince Mr. Kalman Berta to rethink his choice of Beech


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

fritzl said:


> I understand this are hollow shaped, aren't they?


Sort of. They sort of bore out a piece in the center to reduce the weight. The "holes" in the new G&G trees are smaller than the ones in the trees Tony used when still with Green. The new trees are also a different, heavier wood. And they have metal hinges rather than the plastic hinges he used at EG. One more new twist: the G&G trees have your name stamped in the bottom.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

> Even African Mahogany (inferior to Latin America) is not a cheap. Assuming the actual material for the shoe trees is a tropical wood, it's probably something like Meranti or Obechi.


My cobbler Jason Amesbury likes to use Obechi.


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## hmhill (Apr 30, 2005)

This is an example of the hinge on my G & G bespoke shoe trees.










I use to help my father build kitchen cabinets when I was younger and he made a few kitchen cabinets made of mahogany--of course this was in the late sixties.

Max


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

manton said:


> Sort of. They sort of bore out a piece in the center to reduce the weight. The "holes" in the new G&G trees are smaller than the ones in the trees Tony used when still with Green. The new trees are also a different, heavier wood. And they have metal hinges rather than the plastic hinges he used at EG. One more new twist: the G&G trees have your name stamped in the bottom.


It is my understanding from my conversation with Mr. Gaziano this morning that the G&G bespoke shoe trees are made of beech. They are indeed a bit heavier than some other woods and I believe G&G are thinking through a somewhat lighter shoe tree for the future. While Obechi is the choice of a number of makers, G&G found it a bit soft and more prone to damage and therefore opted for the heartier beech (with comes both unfinished or with a mahogany stain).


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## janne melkersson (Feb 17, 2006)

For your information Dobridge Treemakers LTD are no longer in business. Peel's (or Peen's) a company own by Lobb's St Jame's, bought the machinery and Mr Dobridge is now working for them.

I have ordered both shoe, boot and long boot trees from him. His standard wood was obeche but he offered solid mahogany, beech and tulip for an extra cost of about £10. 

He made the Grenley boot trees I posted a coupple of weeks ago. I will miss him.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

UPS delivered my MTO G&G shoes today. I ordered the Hughes in fox suede on the DG70 (smart round)last when Tony and Dean were in the US last fall. Here's the model:



I have commented favorably about the RTW samples of G&G shoes that I have previously seen, and these shoes live up to those comments. They are as well made as anything that I have seen from EG or JL Paris, and they have a number of design elements that I believe renders them superior to either of the other two. Specifically, I love the pitched heel, the elongated toe cap, the unusual shape of the U throat, and the fiddling on the underside of the waist. The sole is not as close-cut to the upper at the waist as it is on JL Paris Prestige line shoes, but I think that the shoe is superior overall to the Prestige line shoes that I have seen and own. These shoes are well worth the wait, and I will be ordering more. Thanks, Tony and Dean.

A word about sizing: I typically wear a 9.5 D or E (UK) in EG lasts. These shoes are 9 E, and I think that that is the correct size, at least in this last. Don't just blindly go with your EG size in EG's most comparable last. Tony and Dean now have fitting samples that they take with them on their trips. You would be well-served to use those samples before ordering.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

jcusey said:


> You would be well-served to use those samples before ordering.


Or choose to go the bespoke route.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

medwards said:


> Or choose to go the bespoke route.


Why not do both? :devil:


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Now why didn't I think of that?


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks jcusey. Is there any possibility of some pics?


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

The sizing comment is bad news for me as Tony assured me that the G&Gs were "exactly" (his words not mine) the same in size as the EGs.

Panzer


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Panzeraxe said:


> The sizing comment is bad news for me as Tony assured me that the G&Gs were "exactly" (his words not mine) the same in size as the EGs.


Ditto. It turns out I need to size down one length and up one width.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Panzeraxe said:


> The sizing comment is bad news for me as Tony assured me that the G&Gs were "exactly" (his words not mine) the same in size as the EGs.
> 
> Panzer


Yes, Tony told me the same thing.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Some pics of actual G&G MTO shoes, not samples:

The plain monk, Carnegie, in Polo suede:



As you can see, they have a very deep nap which responds instantly to the touch. The last is the one they call "soft square," a little sharper than EG 606, but not as angular as 888:



I really like the way they do the quarters: dramatically curved and cut away:



I also like the rather sturdy buckle they use, opposed to the somewhat cheap looking brass loop that EG uses on Troon.

The finest RTW waist treatment I have ever seen:


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

Will said:


> Yes, Tony told me the same thing.


Same thing he said to me last Friday. I did try on the sizing shoes and was fine with UK 9.5 I wear in EG. Dean said the fit was the same regardless of the last; the fitting shoes were the soft square I believe.

I went with the Hayes in the rioja with the smart square. Hope that works out okay.


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## ndak (Apr 2, 2007)

I love the look of their Vintage Rioja leather. My question is, what color pants/suits would you match up with this leather???


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## hangthree (Apr 16, 2005)

I'm a big fan of the vintage rioja. I think it would look great with grey or navy suits on the darker side of the spectrum.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Gaziano & Girling have now updated their website with a more extensive .


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*G&G Stock*

I see from the Gaziano & Girling website that they are now creating "a basic stock line so that our customers can take advantage of ordering our shoes quicker than our Made to Order service."

G&G lists the following styles, lasts, leathers and sizes:

Hayes TG73 Black Calf 6-11E
Hayes TG73 Vintage Rioja 6-11E
Buccleugh MH71 Polo Suede 6-11 E 
Harrow GG06 Black Calf 6-11E 
Oxford GG06 Black Calf 6-11 E 
Rothschild DG70 Black Calf 6-11 E 
Savoy MH71 Vintage Cedar 6-11 E 
Astaire DG70 Brown Pingrain/Mole Suede 6-11 E 
Gable TG73 Vintage Oak 6-11 E 
Hughes DG70 Vintage Cedar 6-11 E 
Wiltshire TG73 Black Calf 6-11 E 
Grant DG70 Vintage Oak 6-11 E

Individuals interested in any of the shoes listed should contact [email protected] for price and availability. Apparently, these stock lines are expected to be available in January of 2008.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

would these stock shoes be from their earlier makes which are not as refined as their newer made MTOs that are , as some say, coming closer to bespoke-looking?
thanks.


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

medwards said:


> I see from the Gaziano & Girling website that they are now creating "a basic stock line so that our customers can take advantage of ordering our shoes quicker than our Made to Order service."
> 
> G&G lists the following styles, lasts, leathers and sizes:
> 
> ...


I cannot seem to find this info anywhere on their website - perhaps I am missing something but I wonder if you would let me know where on their site this info is? Thanks LM


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

It appears as a pop-up when I enter the site. Check to see if you have pop-up blocker enabled. If so, you might want to disable it temporarily and see if that brings this info up.


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

Thank you Medwards. I have just tried this and still nothing! I think you must have a hotline to G&G as a favoured customer or something!:icon_smile_wink:

Well, I can always give Dean Girling a call if need be.

So thank you for listing the models for us because in the light of a lack of pop ups that is most helpful:icon_smile:


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*G&G Bespoke Shoe Gallery*

By the way, I see that Centipede has updated his Gaziano image gallery so that it now contains . For some reason I find image 262 rather intriguing.


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

medwards said:


> For some reason I find image 262 rather intriguing.


Are you the proud dad of those babies? When are they due?


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

medwards said:


> By the way, I see that Centipede has updated his Gaziano image gallery so that it now contains . For some reason I find image 262 rather intriguing.


Am I right in thinking that they are yours? :icon_smile:


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

And why would you think that?


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

but those have got sole's on when i seen your they did not as there were at the fitting stage and those have been on the title page before i seen your's, but the design is the the same thro', also i might be wrong too


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

anybody confirm that to avoid UPS and brokerage fees, to request shipping via Royal Air Mail?

G&G returned my email stating that it will be at my own risk. is this a formality response from them , or have i requested the wrong thing?

thanks.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Brian13 said:


> G&G returned my email stating that it will be at my own risk. is this a formality response from them , or have i requested the wrong thing?


Live dangerously, Brian.:aportnoy:


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

Brian13 said:


> request shipping via Royal Air Mail?


Here is 'Parcelforce' the parcel-service of Royal Mail, you can work out the cost yourself.
https://www.parcelforce.com/portal/pw


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

what i mean is that those who opted not to ship via UPS , did they use royal air mail with G&G and did it come out ok.


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## Roikins (Mar 22, 2007)

Brian13 said:


> what i mean is that those who opted not to ship via UPS , did they use royal air mail with G&G and did it come out ok.


You could always use DHL and request G&G put the value of the shoes at a lower value that would avoid the duties. At least this way, you'd have the reliability and tracking ability of DHL, but you would avoid the tax.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Roikins said:


> You could always use DHL and request G&G put the value of the shoes at a lower value that would avoid the duties. At least this way, you'd have the reliability and tracking ability of DHL, but you would avoid the tax.


You mean, ask G&G to mis-declare the value of the goods in the package? I realize that this is done all the time, almost always without legal consequences, but do you really think that it's a good idea to try to enlist G&G in tax fraud?


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

When I was buying from them I always had EG use Royal Mail. Never had a problem in dozens of shipments. 

For bespoke items I pay the extra money for UPS or DHL.


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## Roikins (Mar 22, 2007)

jcusey said:


> You mean, ask G&G to mis-declare the value of the goods in the package? I realize that this is done all the time, almost always without legal consequences, but do you really think that it's a good idea to try to enlist G&G in tax fraud?


I suppose it depends on what you think the value of the goods in the package is. :icon_smile_wink:


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

jcusey said:


> You mean, ask G&G to mis-declare the value of the goods in the package?


The customs declaration asks for 'value'. it does not specify whether it's the retail- or the cost price.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

bengal-stripe said:


> The customs declaration asks for 'value'. it does not specify whether it's the retail- or the cost price.


Very true, although I doubt that there is similar ambiguity in the laws or regulations mandating the forms. Of course, I have no idea which way (retail or COGS) the law reads, and I'm too lazy to find out. My larger point is that if ever G&G got audited, it would look mighty strange if they used one set of values for some packages and another for others. Were I them, I wouldn't want to take that risk.


----------



## Bertie Wooster (Feb 11, 2006)

bengal-stripe said:


> The customs declaration asks for 'value'. it does not specify whether it's the retail- or the cost price.





jcusey said:


> Very true, although I doubt that there is similar ambiguity in the laws or regulations mandating the forms. Of course, I have no idea which way (retail or COGS) the law reads, and I'm too lazy to find out. My larger point is that if ever G&G got audited, it would look mighty strange if they used one set of values for some packages and another for others. Were I them, I wouldn't want to take that risk.


As a retailer I personally would have no problem declaring the lower ( ie cost ) value of a shipment. I know from bitter experience with Royal Mail, that should a package go astray, the cost is all they'll cough up. They simply arent interested in any loss of profit etc.


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

medwards said:


> I see from the Gaziano & Girling website that they are now creating "a basic stock line so that our customers can take advantage of ordering our shoes quicker than our Made to Order service."
> 
> G&G lists the following styles, lasts, leathers and sizes:
> 
> ...


The stock lines now appear on the bottom menu as "New Stock Lines".


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

I see that they have also added a number of addional images of bespoke shoes they have made for their customers.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

medwards said:


> I see that they have also added a number of addional images of bespoke shoes they have made for their customers.


nice! but i tihnk we are still missing a certain pair of "adelaide's"!!!???


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

manton said:


> Some pics of actual G&G MTO shoes, not samples:
> 
> The plain monk, Carnegie, in Polo suede:


Manton, I must say that these are amongst the most beautiful shoes I have seen on AAAC.

I note the sole is embossed with G&G, is this a rubber layer or is it leather?


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

G&G's I receivd this week (cross post from SF)


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

very stylish Teddy, I'm very jealous!


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

teddyriley said:


> G&G's I receivd this week (cross post from SF)


I ordered something similar. Are these the rioja with a captoe w/o the medallion in the smart toe?


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## upnorth (Jun 18, 2007)

Would a customer be able to choose half sizes and a wider F or G width through the G&G MTO option? I take a size 11 1/2 F in most UK shoes but I don't see this size in their new stock lines. 

I am too poor to afford their bespokes shoes but I was hoping their MTO options would offer a more liberal size customization.


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

upnorth said:


> Would a customer be able to choose half sizes and a wider F or G width through the G&G MTO option? I take a size 11 1/2 F in most UK shoes but I don't see this size in their new stock lines.
> 
> I am too poor to afford their bespokes shoes but I was hoping their MTO options would offer a more liberal size customization.


Yes you can:icon_smile: Their "Stock Lines" hold E widths only for sure which is a problem if you are an F or G width as I am depending on the make. However I have on order three G&Gs in 11F. So you can get F widths and yes also half sizes but you have to go MTO - thankfully you don't need to go bespoke!


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

upnorth said:


> Would a customer be able to choose half sizes and a wider F or G width through the G&G MTO option? I take a size 11 1/2 F in most UK shoes but I don't see this size in their new stock lines.
> 
> I am too poor to afford their bespokes shoes but I was hoping their MTO options would offer a more liberal size customization.


Their MTO seems a very good half way house. The measurement and tracing of ones feet is similar to that for bespoke and I see on the order form for my shoes that although 9 is marked "size refer to draft" is written above.

I believe from another forum that teddyriley's shoes are left foot 10D right foot 10E


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

Tonyp said:


> I ordered something similar. Are these the rioja with a captoe w/o the medallion in the smart toe?


I did a bit of tweaking based on the Hayes, so it is on the smart square last, cap toe, no medallion, and I added laid-on heel counters. All the broguing is done using a diamond punch. All my other shoes with broguing has a circular punch, so I thought I'd have something different. Color is in vintage pine (not sure where you got rioja as the picture looks far from red).

And G&G was very accommodating with the design and size. Noting my left foot is a bit smaller than my right, Dean Girling suggested a UK D width for the left and UK E for the right.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

teddyriley said:


> I did a bit of tweaking based on the Hayes, so it is on the smart square last, cap toe, no medallion, and I added laid-on heel counters. All the broguing is done using a diamond punch. All my other shoes with broguing has a circular punch, so I thought I'd have something different. Color is in vintage pine (not sure where you got rioja as the picture looks far from red).
> 
> And G&G was very accommodating with the design and size. Noting my left foot is a bit smaller than my right, Dean Girling suggested a UK D width for the left and UK E for the right.


I meant Hayes. sorry. Very beautiful shoe indeed. ENJOY!


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## shawndo (Feb 22, 2007)

When I first got interested in high-end shoes and was reading all I could, I had this idea that I was going to get a pair of Edward Green's, a pair of John Lobb's and then I added on G&G as an afterthought. I've purchased only the G&G's so far and now I'm thinking about just being a "G&G man!" and ordering a couple more pairs. I love these shoes!


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

cool picture, great shoes!


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Their website says that the new range of shoes and boots should be launched the 2nd week February. They are not on there yet.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

Tony mentioned he's already e-mailed their webmaster all the new information as of last Thursday and he expects their website to be updated sometime this week

A bit more patience and I'm sure the faithful will be rewarded


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

luk-cha said:


> nice! but i tihnk we are still missing a certain pair of "adelaide's"!!!???





Ay329 said:


> A bit more patience and I'm sure the faithful will be rewarded


One hopes.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

i am thinking they must be close to being in transit, or at least in the midst of!

https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=56994

cross post from SF!


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*For Luk-Cha*

You mean these? They turned out quite well. The depth and the richness of the very dark burgundy gets lost a bit in the flash...but you get the idea of how these full brogue Adelaides made up:

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

medwards said:


> You mean these? They turned out quite well. The depth and the richness of the very dark burgundy gets lost a bit in the flash...but you get the idea of how these full brogue Adelaides made up:
> 
> https://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0378yq4.jpg
> 
> https://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0371dr4.jpg


as i have said else where i like these, i like the last too the richness on the color is great, s made me think of these with micro broguing for myself at a later stage! - enjoy!


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

medwards said:


> https://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0371dr4.jpg


I love the little widow's peak at the base of the U throat. The rest of the shoes are pretty good, too.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Wow, these photos are compelling me to place an order for G&G.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Artisan Fan said:


> Wow, these photos are compelling me to place an order for G&G.


+1. This thread is potentially dangerous to my marriage.


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

medwards said:


> You mean these? They turned out quite well. The depth and the richness of the very dark burgundy gets lost a bit in the flash...but you get the idea of how these full brogue Adelaides made up:
> 
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> https://imageshack.us


Very nice, Professor. Now that you are venturing out a bit, can I interest you in a green hat? And what would be your next commission? Enquiring minds want to know??? :icon_smile_wink:


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Mr. C:

What kind of green hat? A trilby? A boater? A topper? A homburg?


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

Why a green bowler, of course! Don't you read my column?


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

medwards said:


> You mean these? They turned out quite well. The depth and the richness of the very dark burgundy gets lost a bit in the flash...but you get the idea of how these full brogue Adelaides made up:
> 
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> https://imageshack.us


i just thort any chance for an outside side shot!

also not that you have had then a few days any more feed back on fit??


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

I'll see if I can't get a better photograph or two this weekend for you. Perhaps natural light will give you a better idea as to the true color and finish. As for fit, I still haven't really worn them yet. But I'll be happy to let you know once I've had the chance.


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

shawndo said:


> When I first got interested in high-end shoes and was reading all I could, I had this idea that I was going to get a pair of Edward Green's, a pair of John Lobb's and then I added on G&G as an afterthought. I've purchased only the G&G's so far and now I'm thinking about just being a "G&G man!" and ordering a couple more pairs. I love these shoes!


Well I suffer similar fate, I now posess 2pairs of EG and have a Saint Crispin on order. All sinca Xmas  . But those are beautifull, are they the Sinatra on smart square with added medalion? Or completely bespoke ...

Anny chance of more pictures of these shoes, im particularly interested about waist and heel-cap ... But genneral pictures dont hurt either 

Thanks

Speed


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## shawndo (Feb 22, 2007)

speedster said:


> Well I suffer similar fate, I now posess 2pairs of EG and have a Saint Crispin on order. All sinca Xmas  . But those are beautifull, are they the Sinatra on smart square with added medalion? Or completely bespoke ...
> 
> Anny chance of more pictures of these shoes, im particularly interested about waist and heel-cap ... But genneral pictures dont hurt either
> 
> ...


These are just MTO's. They are G&G Grants in Chesnut calf. TG73 Last (Classic square). I requested heavy burnishing.

These were my first pair of this level of shoe. At the time, I thought I'd have only one or 2 pairs at this level. I wanted to walk in these things all over the place (in NYC) so I ended up getting dainite soles. When I see the pictures of how pretty the leather soles are, I do regret it a little. Dainite isn't all that pretty but they are very comfortable and I don't mind walking on cement for a couple miles!

Now that I envision myself having more than a couple pairs of these shoes, I will definitely get the leather soles next time


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

medwards said:


> I'll see if I can't get a better photograph or two this weekend for you. Perhaps natural light will give you a better idea as to the true color and finish. As for fit, I still haven't really worn them yet. But I'll be happy to let you know once I've had the chance.


chears i'd be interesting to know how they are against your Chevelery's


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## jjl5000 (May 14, 2006)

G&G web site now updated with some of the new designs but not all.


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

jjl5000 said:


> G&G web site now updated with some of the new designs but not all.


Thanks for the info jjl5000 - more truly beautiful designs to whet the appetite! I am not a huge fan of Chelsea boots but those wholecut Chelseas look superb. It is also interesting to see the dramatic effect a last can have on a shoe as evidenced by that Balmoral shoe - so different on the Smart Square last compared to the more rounded last we saw on the AAAC site pictures.

As you say one or two designs missing - notably the walking shoes, but I know that G&G were waiting on their web designers to put everything up on their site, so watch this space!


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

luk-cha said:


> also now that you have had then a few days any more feed back on fit??


I have indeed now had an opportunity to wear these full-brogued Adelaides a little bit and am happy to provide a few initial observations as to their fit. I should start out by saying that I did have a minor concern at the outset. As I believe I have mentioned previously, Tony did craft a longer shape with a bit more length in the toe box as a way to help the look and balance of the shoe. He really does favor a sleek line and while I was willing to try this, I must confess that I was a tad bit leery. I am happy to report that Mssrs Gaziano and Girling did an outstanding job in crafting a well-fitting shoe and that this additional length does not create any problems. The idea that Mr Gaziano puts design above fit is - to my mind at least - just plain wrong. I find that he is able to meld the two quite well. I am very happy with the fit.



luk-cha said:


> i'd be interesting to know how they are against your Chevelery's


I am always reluctant to compare makers inasmuch as so many participants on these fora consequently rush to rate one as "better" than another. I find such comparisons misplaced. There are differences, of course. And each of us has our own preferences.

These G&G-made shoes do feel different than my Cleverley footwear, but that shouldn't be surprising. I have been a longstanding customer of the folks at Cleverley and we have had the opportunity to tweak my last over the years. Moreover, inasmuch as I generally wear these Cleverley-made shoes, they are the shoe to which I am most accustomed and anything new naturally feels a bit different.

As has been noted in the past, the Cleverley-approach seems very much based on the shape of one's foot rather than a specific look. This means that their shoes tend to follow the individual contours of one's feet. This obviously has an effect on comfort and fit, but there is an additional result as well. Their shoes appear very small - much smaller, neater and trimmer than similar fitting shoes from another maker. Yet they accommodate one's foot exceptionally well, without any undue tightness or binding. Indeed, I have shoes that appear much larger, but are actually more snug.

The result of this in this particular instance is that the Gaziano & Girling Adelaide fits me very well as do my Cleverley's; however, the G&G shoe looks to be a size larger than its Cleverley-made brethren. This is not a criticism; simply an observation. Remember, Tony intentionally created a somewhat longer looking shoe to gain the shape and balance we were seeking.

The bottom line is this: I'm looking forward to seeing Mr Gaziano on April 22 when we will begin another undertaking


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

And what will he be crafting for you? Enquiring minds want to know?


----------



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Probably a black calf Balmoral (galosh) Oxford -- rather sleek with rather small punching. But I'm still contemplating some other approaches.


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

Can we anticipate a Gaziano & Girling shop in London? Enquiring minds want to know. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Can we anticipate a Gaziano & Girling shop in London? Enquiring minds want to know. :icon_smile_big:


Enquiring minds can ask themselves.

G&G are having a trunkshow on Thursday March 13th at Nr 12 Savile Row (it's the basement below Scabal) between 10a.m - 5p.m.. 


> _"You are welcome to call by any time of the day to view our shoes, however, if you require some private time for bespoke or RWT orders,
> please contact us and make an appointment._


----------



## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

bengal-stripe said:


> Enquiring minds can ask themselves.
> 
> G&G are having a trunkshow on Thursday March 13th at Nr 12 Savile Row (it's the basement below Scabal) between 10a.m - 5p.m..


i think some new bespoke samples will be on show too, IIRC!, BS can you take some pic's if possible!


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

medwards said:


> I have indeed now had an opportunity to wear these full-brogued Adelaides a little bit and am happy to provide a few initial observations as to their fit. I should start out by saying that I did have a minor concern at the outset. As I believe I have mentioned previously, Tony did craft a longer shape with a bit more length in the toe box as a way to help the look and balance of the shoe. He really does favor a sleek line and while I was willing to try this, I must confess that I was a tad bit leery. I am happy to report that Mssrs Gaziano and Girling did an outstanding job in crafting a well-fitting shoe and that this additional length does not create any problems. The idea that Mr Gaziano puts design above fit is - to my mind at least - just plain wrong. I find that he is able to meld the two quite well. I am very happy with the fit.
> 
> I am always reluctant to compare makers inasmuch as so many participants on these fora consequently rush to rate one as "better" than another. I find such comparisons misplaced. There are differences, of course. And each of us has our own preferences.
> 
> ...


thanks for this insite, i had visited the Cleverley clan last week and i was wearing my G&G's and john was inpressed with the fit, and did not think they where long or snouty, but i was more impressed with the russian raindear qtr brogues on display!


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Antibes - Vintage Cedar - Apron Loafer - KN14 - 9E
They are not quite the same as the version in their catalogue as they do not have the split toe.























































The order stated rolled hand stitch lake/apron which I am not sure this is. They look pretty cool anyway.


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

I purchased the Antibes last year in "rosewood" and they have the split toe. 

Candidly, I actually PREFER your version which, to me, looks sleaker and more elegant.

The me, the toe stich "casualizes" the shoe, which I think is great in, say, the EG Dover, but may actually detract from the Antibes. 

Just my opinion but candidly, I was thinking of ordering another color and I may well request them exactly like your's.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

Medwards, is this your shoe?

https://centipede.web.fc2.com/gandg1.html


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## iyorito (Aug 18, 2005)

That's Centipede's shoes mate.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

You can see a picture of my recent dark burgindy G&G full brogue Adelaides in post #270 on page 11 of this thread . They are Adelaides, not Balmorals. But if this Balmoral (galosh) design appeals to you, you might want to take a look at the very stylish ones G&G crafted for luk-cha:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?p=784814#post784814


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

Ay329 said:


> Medwards, is this your shoe?
> 
> https://centipede.web.fc2.com/gandg1.html





medwards said:


> You can see a picture of my recent dark burgindy G&G full brogue Adelaides in post #270 on page 11 of this thread . They are Adelaides, not Balmorals. But if this Balmoral (galosh) design appeals to you, you might want to take a look at the very stylish ones G&G crafted for luk-cha:
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?p=784814#post784814


Ay329 why did you ask that this was medwards's shoe - i would have thort is were quite clear that the first post of the top of this page what it is plus what were posted of other fora's!

medwards thank you for your kind link to my shoes - they are both getting alot of wearing esp the derby's which for some reason have become a instant fave.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

iyorito said:


> That's Centipede's shoes mate.


Centipede's site is a wonderful source of visual images and ideas.

luk-cha, I am not surprised that you have fared well with these shoes. They are very handsome indeed. As I recall, the derby oxfords were fashioned from pigskin. If that is correct, have you found this leather to be any different in terms of care or wear?


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

i have found the pig skin to crease simular to shell cordovan but poslish in the same way as calf! i must admit i like it alot and would consider it again perhaps for a chukka boot or some other kind of derby or even a combination shoe like the centerpede's but in a darker shade with a diamond cap insted (i am fan)

this kind of grained leather is a great idea for more casual shoes and i'd rather have it over scotch grain too


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

Sorry folks but I thought those G&G longwing bespoke was Medwards.

I like them and I love Luk-chas. My first G&G MTO was a warwick modified with a wing tip design. 

I really like the design in black, but I think Luk-cha's variat was nicer. 

I think my Lazyman will be a incorporate a longwing/galosh/balmoral design in black calf and all the specifics will be as a I desire


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

Ay329 said:


> I thought those G&G longwing bespoke was Medwards.


Not quite sleek enough to make The Professor's shoe closet, I would presume.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

Ay329 said:


> Sorry folks but I thought those G&G longwing bespoke was Medwards.
> 
> I like them and I love Luk-chas. My first G&G MTO was a warwick modified with a wing tip design.
> 
> ...


thanks well mine were a second generation on the origional design with my own quirks and i am sure if SB else were to make them then they might be better than mine or even i were to do another pair they might even be better still!


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

Medwards, anything special to report from the G&G visit a week or so ago?


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

Or, Ay329, their visit to your fair city today???


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

G&G is still in the process of delivering the 5 shoes I ordered back in April so I'm not in a hurry to order more shoes

But I do have some bespoke designs to discuss with Tony tomorrow, (if I can only kick this stomach flu and make it out to the slums of Beverly Hills).

If the pounds value falls further then the cost of bespoke might be more appealable unless Tony will reveal more information on new MTO designs to come in 2009


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## Mr. Chatterbox (May 1, 2005)

Ay329 said:


> G&G is still in the process of delivering the 5 shoes I ordered back in April so I'm not in a hurry to order more shoes


What happened to the other shoe? Doesn't G&G sell their shoes in pairs. :icon_smile_big:



> But I do have some bespoke designs to discuss with Tony tomorrow, (if I can only kick this stomach flu and make it out to the slums of Beverly Hills).


How many ways can you say "lazyman?" You've built up our interest. Don't be a tease. Do it!!!!!!



> If the pounds value falls further then the cost of bespoke might be more appealable unless Tony will reveal more information on new MTO designs to come in 2009


The dollar is very strong versus the pound and the euro. Bespoke is a very good deal!


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Ay329 said:


> If the pounds value falls further then the cost of bespoke might be more appealable.


Keep in mind that delivery of bespoke shoes ordered now will probably not be until January or February of next year if that soon...so your decision needs to assess where the dollar is likely to be then. Waiting until G&G returns next spring might well mean missing this financial opportunity.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

Medwards, you make a good point

Presuming I pulled the trigger tomorrow morning with Tony, first fitting won't be until next April, and from then, possibly another 2-3 months before the shoe is completed...since I'll be a brand new bespoke customer

But a simple price comparison assists here
In August, 1500 pounds was about 3000 dollars
Today, 1500 pounds was a bit under 2400
A 600 dollar improvement for the American consumer

Its just so hard justifying bespoke shoes...pricewise 

But Medwards, perhaps I'll commit tomorrow after all

Now if only my wife pulled of some miracles tonight working at the local strip joint...


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

It is indeed easy (for some at least) to lose sight of the fact that, no matter what the exchange rate, two or three thousand dollars for a pair of shoes is beyond imagination for many: conceptually or financially. For the vast, vast majority of people, this is a remains a great deal of money. And one should be prudent in deciding if and how to spend it. Quite frankly, very few people take this step. For point of reference, Cleverley makes fewer than 500 pairs of shoes a year. Gaziano & Girling even less. Lobb a bit more. That's a rather small universe. Even when one adds in the customers of other makers arond the world, one finds a very limited number of people making such purchases. We trust you will make an appropriate choice given your personal circumstances. In any event, we welcome your sharing of your vist with Tony Gaziano -- his thoughts on your bespoke shoe ideas, your assessment of his new models, and any decisions you make or plan on making for the future.


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