# Funny thing I keep hearing about Jewish Pants



## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

Everytime I get my pants hemmed I keep encountering the same racial stereotype. I often ask for my pants not to be cuffed and they look at me with a puzzled look. When I enquire as to why this is, they make a comment about Jews always wanting to have cuffs with their pants. When asked I admit to being Jewish, I have no reason to hide this, in fact I also look Jewish. I summize this is how they come to their conclusion, but what a weird conclusion it is. Has anyone else ever encountered this?


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Could it have something to do with catching coins in them?


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yellman_
> 
> Everytime I get my pants hemmed I keep encountering the same racial stereotype. I often ask for my pants not to be cuffed and they look at me with a puzzled look. When I enquire as to why this is, they make a comment about Jews always wanting to have cuffs with their pants. When asked I admit to being Jewish, I have no reason to hide this, in fact I also look Jewish. I summize this is how they come to their conclusion, but what a weird conclusion it is. Has anyone else ever encountered this?


What does looking jewish mean? The jews I know range from blond blue eyes to redheads to dark latino types. I know you are not stereotyping but what is the consensus, as I really don't know.

I have really only seen the orthodox jews wearing wool trousers with the string things (pardon me as I don't know their real name) hanging from the side. They don't seem to be cuffed.

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

You should act puzzled and say you picked up wearing cuffed pants at Yale or some east-coast WASP school. LOL tell them you're just trad.
Cheers


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

Next time I see Geraldo Rivera, I'll check out his pants.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

What kind of tailor stops and confronts their customer regarding his ethnicity/religion? [:0]


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## wheredidyougetthathat (Mar 26, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yellman_
> 
> Everytime I get my pants hemmed I keep encountering the same racial stereotype. I often ask for my pants not to be cuffed and they look at me with a puzzled look. When I enquire as to why this is, they make a comment about Jews always wanting to have cuffs with their pants. When asked I admit to being Jewish, I have no reason to hide this, in fact I also look Jewish. I summize this is how they come to their conclusion, but what a weird conclusion it is. Has anyone else ever encountered this?


(1) That's one of the weirdest things I've ever heard.

(2) I'd be willing to bet that the average American, asked to describe "looking Jewish", would - after the obligatory show of outrage at the idea that there might be such a thing - describe Woody Allen.

((i) I'm not Jewish; (ii) I look a little like Woody Allen; (iii) when I lived in New York I was frequently approached by Mitzvah Tank recruiters asking if I was Jewish, so I guess I look ....)

(3) Obviously, "looking Jewish" shall henceforth be defined as "wearing cuffed trousers".

Somebody: "I tell you, he's so well dressed that when he walks down the street people turn around to look at him."
Beau Brummell: "Then he is not well dressed."


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I can't believe anyone would hassle a customer like that. They are lucky you are so patient. 

There are customers who would get angry, leave and take their business with them.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

First time I've every heard that, though there aren't many Jews where I live. Come to think of it, I guess I can't think of a single racial/cultural group that strongly prefers or eshews cuffs (as far as I know, that is). Number of buttons on a coat, yes; cuffs, no.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by xcubbies_
> 
> Could it have something to do with catching coins in them?


I seriously hope that a joke - tasteless as it is...


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
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Tasteless is hardly the adjective I would use but as I have no desire to trigger yet another pointless discussion, I shall leave you all to this most absurd of threads.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Yellman:

I think I'd change tailors!

I cuff all my pants, but then I'm Scottish-merican/Protestant/Carnivore! 

Andy


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
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I couldn't agree more, I was trying to be kind, although upon review, I have no idea why I should have been...


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

For frick's sake, there's no indication that xcubbies _agrees_ with the "cuffs only" stereotype. He appears to be offering an explanation of how an apparently incomprehensible stereotype related to the conduct of Jewish people might have arisen from a very well-known anti-Semitic stereotype.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Srynerson- What kind of tailor stops and confronts their customer regarding his ethnicity/religion?

Maybe it is a hobby? With all the last names in the US- you never wonder where they come from?

One thing about the US is that there are so many interesting ethinic backgrounds and food. Cultural clothes are neat to see, too.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

Everyone take a deep breath again... 

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Srynerson_
> 
> For frick's sake, there's no indication that xcubbies _agrees_ with the "cuffs only" stereotype. He appears to be offering an explanation of how an apparently incomprehensible stereotype related to the conduct of Jewish people might have arisen from a very well-known anti-Semitic stereotype.


Does it really matter what he thinks? The bottom line is that the comment was 1) inappropriate and 2) if he was simply 'offering an explanation', he should have clarified such along with his belief that it is still an appalling comment.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by WA_
> 
> Srynerson- What kind of tailor stops and confronts their customer regarding his ethnicity/religion?
> 
> Maybe it is a hobby? With all the last names in the US- you never wonder where they come from?


Yes, name origins can be interesting, but I wouldn't ask a _customer_ that. [}]


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Srynerson- What kind of tailor stops and confronts their customer regarding his ethnicity/religion?

Maybe it is a hobby? With all the last names in the US- you never wonder where they come from?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yes, name origins can be interesting, but I wouldn't ask a customer that.

Guess it depends on how it is asked. I got to hear some interesting conversations and learn some neat things by listening to peoples questions and answers, but ask the wrong way and it is a war.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Srynerson- Yes, name origins can be interesting, but I wouldn't ask a customer that.

Names I rarely ask about. But, would like to ask more.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Teacher_
> 
> First time I've every heard that, though there aren't many Jews where I live. Come to think of it, I guess I can't think of a single racial/cultural group that strongly prefers or eshews cuffs (as far as I know, that is). *Number of buttons on a coat*, yes; cuffs, no.


What are the ethnic preferences in connection with the number of buttons on a coat?

Regards,
Gurdon


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## rssmsvc (Aug 5, 2004)

Never heard that, and I think the tailor who said that is not too bright. I woudn't let them touch any fine garments because that sort of person is exactly a detail oriented person.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I have a big schnozz and hence have often been taken for Jewish--in both amiable and hostile fashion. I can remember a dear old Jewish lady on the bus asking me if I had gotten a ring I was wearing for my Bar Mitzvah, evidently assuming I was the stereotypical "nice Jewish boy." I replied, "No, I got it for my high school graduation." She said, "Vat did you get for your Bar Mitzvah?" I replied, "I never had a Bar Mitzvah. I'm not Jewish." "Not Joosh! Oh, I'm sorry." I assured her as sweetly as I could that no apology was necessary. A few years later at Oxford a drunken little fellow tried to provoke a fight with me, calling me repeatedly "a yellow Yid." He even slapped my face. Since he was dead drunk, and I was about a foot taller, 60 pounds heavier and a member of the OU Boxing Club at the time, I declined his challenge. The next day he thanked me profusely. Ironically, he was half-Jewish, as is not infrequently the case with anti-Semites, I've noticed. He was later thrown out of Balliol for having stolen a vast quantity of books from Blackwell's.

Many years later, I was dating a big strapping blonde who happened to be Jewish. I sometimes thought anyone seeing us would assume I was the Jew and she the "Aryan."

All of this I tell merely to mention that I have always preferred my trousers to be cuffed. I had never hitherto realized that I was thereby perpetuating an ethnic stereotype, erroneous though it may have been in my case.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> Ironically, he was half-Jewish, as is not infrequently the case with anti-Semites, I've noticed.


just as an FYI...Hitler's mother was Jewish - true.

Regarding my comments about posts by Snyerson and xcubbies, when dealing in a civilized (as I assumed AAAC) forum, if one makes a comment or post that involves a hot-button issue like anti-semitism, the poster should take care to clarify himself lest he be mistaken as an anti-Semite himself. And as a Jewish person (rather than "Jew" or "Yid" - JLibourel I realize you were just recalling someone else's comment), we would rather such comments not even be made, as they are insulting even when posted in jest, just as I'm sure an Irishman or Italian would be insulted by a comment or post that mentions an ignorant or insulting stereotype - even if made in jest.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Gurdon_
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Younger urban black men tend to prefer four-or-more button coats more often than whites. The retail industry is, though prodigious polling, very aware of this. This was even brought up by two (?) black retailers on a recent thread concerning four-button coats.


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## malinda (Aug 25, 2002)

*XCubbies: That was offensive. Don't do it again.

The rest of you. STOP IT OR I LOCK IT. One warning only.

Malinda*


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

OK, this thread has gotten a little too silly. I did not intend for this to be a racial discussion as to what a Jew looks like or anything of this matter. I have had at least 7 different people make this comment about cuffs. I did not take offense to it at the time. I am not even sure if it is a derogatory comment to be honest. I was just honestly wondering if anyone else had heard this.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yellman_
> 
> OK, this thread has gotten a little too silly. I did not intend for this to be a racial discussion as to what a Jew looks like or anything of this matter. I have had at least 7 different people make this comment about cuffs. I did not take offense to it at the time. I am not even sure if it is a derogatory comment to be honest. I was just honestly wondering if anyone else had heard this.


Enough with the term "Jew" please. You should avoid those 7 people at all costs.


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
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In my opinion the onus is on the *reader* to have a skin thick enough to deal with a discussion, even discussion that may contain some bits of ignorance and misunderstanding. No one can all be eloquent all the time, and if we're going to get past the current culture of victimhood, we *all* need to quit whinging and be big enough give the other party space to be honest and ask questions.

The mass-man is one who has neither the force of intellect to apprehend the principles issuing in what we know as the humane life, nor the force of character to adhere to those principles steadily and strictly as laws of conduct; and because such people make up the great and overwhelming majority of mankind, they are called collectively the masses.
--Albert Nock


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by petro_
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Petro, surely you must be kidding - the 'onus' on the reader? That scarily sounds like we should 'accept' ignorance and bigotry. No effort would be required on the part of the reader if insulting comments weren't made in the first place. Your comment is insulting. If your view represents the base view of forum members, than I have made the very big mistake of becoming an active member.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

So next time tell the meshugenah you want a bris for your pants. I'm not a jew, though I have family connections. I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night though .


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## chat_chapeau (Dec 2, 2005)

This half-Jewish, Irish Catholic (and probably a few more mixed in there) thinks maybe we're all just taking ourselves a little too seriously these days. The tailor's comment, while puzzling, hardly seems offensive to me.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by chat_chapeau_
> 
> This half-Jewish, Irish Catholic (and probably a few more mixed in there) thinks maybe we're all just taking ourselves a little too seriously these days. The tailor's comment, while puzzling, hardly seems offensive to me.


Again, for the last time, the tailors comment wasn't the issue, it was xcubbies...read the entire thread before chiming in.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by chat_chapeau_
> 
> This half-Jewish, Irish Catholic (and probably a few more mixed in there) thinks maybe we're all just taking ourselves a little too seriously these days. The tailor's comment, while puzzling, hardly seems offensive to me.


Given all that's been posted thus far, how is this an acceptable response?


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

i was raised in a jewish neighborhood, rogers park in chicago. most of my buddies were jewish. thinking back to what all my friends looked like i cant think of what "jewish" looks like. what would that be? in fact none of the guys even faintly looked like woody allen.

Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## LPinFla (Jan 7, 2005)

Xcubbies, I thought Switzerland was a neutral country. Shame on you for that blatant anti-semitic comment. Talk about fostering hatred via ignorance and stereotypes.

Yellman, I am Jewish, and have absolutely no idea what "looking Jewish" means. Unless you wear a yalmalke, pais or a star of David around your neck how would one know what you are. I also suggest you find yourself a different tailor; maybe one who is Jewish so you won't be exposed to that nonsense.

Cfriedberg, I agree 100% with your comments. And thank you.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> Everyone take a deep breath again...
> 
> Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

not to excuse the negative comments made, but anyone thought that maybe the tailor was basing his assumption on Yellmans real name and not on his looks? Lets say your name was Seth Weinberg, would it be wrong for me to assume you are Jewish anymore than making an assumption that Miguel Rodriguez is probably hispanic? Also, lets assume that the tailor is a foreigner (asian perhaps as most in NYC are), maybe her comment was not made to offend but rather to rib a good customer a little. I am not a Pollyana to think that bigotry does not exist ( I am hispanic) but I do believe that, as a general rule, we have become really sensitive. 

Yellman, if you feel that this is an issue, stop going to that tailor and patronize someone else.


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## wheredidyougetthathat (Mar 26, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by a tailor_
> 
> i was raised in a jewish neighborhood, rogers park in chicago. most of my buddies were jewish. thinking back to what all my friends looked like i cant think of what "jewish" looks like. what would that be? in fact none of the guys even faintly looked like woody allen.
> 
> Alex Di Pietropaolo


No that's not the point, an early poster asked what people who use the term "looking Jewish" mean by that, from my experience when I've heard people (including a couple of Jewish people) use the term that's approximately the look they have in mind (I know because the person so referred to was either known to me or somewhere in view), rather than a person who looks like Spinoza or Trotsky or Kirk Douglas. _Simpliciter_: answering the question "what does the term 'Jewish-looking' mean?", not the question "what do Jewish people look like?"

Besides, everybody knows you can tell if somebody's Jewish by whether his pants are cuffed or not.

Somebody: "I tell you, he's so well dressed that when he walks down the street people turn around to look at him."
Beau Brummell: "Then he is not well dressed."


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## smitatelli (May 19, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LPinFla_
> 
> I also suggest you find yourself a different tailor; maybe one who is Jewish so you won't be exposed to that nonsense.


Wonderful idea. Let everyone find a tailor that matches his or her ethnic background.

As an ethnic Kentuckian, I realize I'll be at a distinct disadvantage, but it is a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

Anything for political correctness.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LPinFla_
> 
> I also suggest you find yourself a different tailor; maybe one who is Jewish so you won't be exposed to that nonsense.


Ah, Yellman makes a simple observation, and it leads to xenophobic/isolationist comments. emorel98 is right: one should be thoughtful and sensitive, but this is extreme hypersensitivity.

It also implies that Gentile tailors, as a whole, will give Yellman a hard time, and _that's_ as offensive as _anything_ else written here.

*cfriedberg*, could you please explain what is wrong with the word "Jew?" All my Jewish friends and acquaintances use it to describe themselves. (Again, not a lot here in ND, but there are some.) In fact, I'm probably having lunch with one on Saturday; I'll ask him.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

Kentucky is a beautiful state. Is there some horse race going on in the near future somewhere in Kentucky? 

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Teacher_
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My understanding of the matter has been that "Jew" as a noun is an honorable and respectful term. As an adjective or verb, it is vulgar and offensive.

My apologies to anyone who found anything in my previous post offensive. If I was using offensive terminology, it was only to illustrate the stupidity of anti-Semitic sentiments.


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## Jordan (Mar 2, 2006)

To some degree, it's the opposite. Cfriedberg was objecting to the use of "Jew" as a noun, specifically the sentence: "I did not intend for this to be a racial discussion as to what a Jew looks like or anything of this matter." It is similar to writing "I did not intend for this to be a racial discussion as to what a black looks like...."

This is subtle, but it would be more appropriate to write "Jewish person," as it would be more appropriate to write "black person."

By the way, I could be wrong, but I do think that the Jewish pant comment has its derivation in an anti-Semitic joke about Jewish people wanting to catch dropped change. (I could not find a reference online, but do think I remember hearing the joke.)

And not to belabor the point, but here's to sending more support to Cfriedberg--all your posts have been totally on point.



> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
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## mose (May 4, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
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sorry to tell you but I think you've been mislead(at least according to the researchers whose work on this topic I've read).

Hitler's mother was not Jewish.

The rumors of Hitler's Jewish ancestry focus on his grandfather and father. Hitler's father, Alois, was illegitimate. He was born to Maria Schicklgruber in 1837. It was rumored, and repeated at Nuremburg by Hans Frank, that she had been impregnated by the 19-year-old son of a rich Jewish household she had been working as a maid for. History does not support this assertion, however, as Jews were expelled from Ganz in the 15th century and did not return until the 1850's(20 years after Hitler's grandfather's birth) making the existence of a rich Jewish household in that town impossible.

The "secret" of Hitler's ancestry is that there was possibly a very close bloodline that mixed(Adolph's paternal grandfather and his maternal great-grandfather have been said to be one in the same by researchers) and that mental illness ran in his family.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

Okay, I know that most of us have had enough. This is Ask Andy About Clothes not Ask Andy About Jews (or whatever). This thread is leading down to nowhere and will result in great animosity among some members and eventually restrict the very reason we are here: To learn from each others sartorial experiences. *Let's stop s**tting where we eat.* And let's stop being so sensitive. I regret my first post on this thread... If someone is anti-semetic fine, go elsewhere and vent. If someone is pro-semetic fine, go elswhere and vent. 

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

This thread would even make the Interchange blush with wonder.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Back to the pants themselves-- Is he a good tailor? Maybe he can help the rest of us. We collectively seem to have our's to tight and riding up our crotches causing discomfort and irritability


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Srynerson_
> 
> For frick's sake, there's no indication that xcubbies _agrees_ with the "cuffs only" stereotype. He appears to be offering an explanation of how an apparently incomprehensible stereotype related to the conduct of Jewish people might have arisen from a very well-known anti-Semitic stereotype.


Precisely. Xcubbies should have taken more care in framing his response for those who might not have already been familiar with that distasteful but not uncommon stereotype, but I wasn't at all surprised by the comment because I have heard precisely that bigoted supposition in the past.

To ask for clarification of the source of his comment is reasonable; but to condemn him outright for simply *responding to Yellman's explicitly stated confusion* and providing a possible explanation for the tailors' unprofessional and stereotypical comment is simply unreasonable and stupid, and smacks of that disingenuous self-righteous bulls**t some people refer to as... what is the term? Ah, yes: POLITICAL CORRECTNESS. Doesn't matter the meaning or purpose of what's being said, just respond in blind outrage to whip the unthinking into a frenzy. What rubbish.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

My apologies if I offended. The original question triggered a memory, perhaps it was a joke, that I thought was relevant. The truth is, I am a _landsman_, myself.

And I believe that the story about Hitler''s mother is a myth.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by LPinFla_
> 
> Xcubbies, I thought Switzerland was a neutral country. Shame on you for that blatant anti-semitic comment. Talk about fostering hatred via ignorance and stereotypes.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your support.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Teacher_
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Correct, all your Jewish friends use the term, however, in most situations, that term has been used in a derogatory fashion. No one goes around identifying people by saying, "Hey that person looks Catholic", or "She's a Catholic". It just comes of as derogatory.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Jordan_
> 
> To some degree, it's the opposite. Cfriedberg was objecting to the use of "Jew" as a noun, specifically the sentence: "I did not intend for this to be a racial discussion as to what a Jew looks like or anything of this matter." It is similar to writing "I did not intend for this to be a racial discussion as to what a black looks like...."


Exactly, well put. Thank for for succinctly explaining what I have failed to do thus far. And for your support.


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> ....And let's stop being so sensitive.


GT3, while I believe your heart is in the right place, simply accepting prejudice and bigotry - or as you put it, 'not being so sensitive', is just not acceptable. To accept and allow prejudice is to foster it.


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by xcubbies_
> 
> My apologies if I offended. The original question triggered a memory, perhaps it was a joke, that I thought was relevant. The truth is, I am a _landsman_, myself.
> 
> And I believe that the story about Hitler''s mother is a myth.


When I first read your response, I did not take it as a racist comment. Only after othes had rviewed it, did I see the potential of it being racist. I took it as you were simply providing a potential answer to my question. Could you clarify what you mean by landsman, I have not heard the term before.


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

Correct, all your Jewish friends use the term, however, in most situations, that term has been used in a derogatory fashion. No one goes around identifying people by saying, "Hey that person looks Catholic", or "She's a Catholic". It just comes of as derogatory.

I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the word "Jew"

I will provide an example to explain why. Take the term "shiksa" You might view it as a negative description of a female gentile. The actual definition is of a pretty blonde young gentile girl. I have no problem being referred to as a Jew, Jewish or what have you, it is the context that matters. You can also call me a white male, depending on the manner it comes across that can be a positive, neutral or negative comment.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I am a NYC born and being man of Jewish background that does not mind the term "jew", I do not find it insulting but I do prefer Jewish to Jew. I did not take offense at any most expecpt the one I hope was in jest regarding catching coins in one's cuffs. Hearing it come from a lansman is a bit different but as this board has mixed backgrounds it could be miscontrued from humor to something else.. Glad I read the other poster clearing that up.

I run into anti-semetic remarks often, I do not like them, I mostly ignore them, especially when they are in my line of work from a customer that says them without realizing he or she has crossed a line. BTW, I am told I look Jewish by some and Italian by others, go figure. In NYC you can tell mostly by looking if someone is Jewish. When I lived in PA and now in New England it is harder to see.

On the original post, your tailor is a nitwit. Maybe a well intensioned nitwit but still a nitwit.

guit


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yellman_
> 
> Correct, all your Jewish friends use the term, however, in most situations, that term has been used in a derogatory fashion. No one goes around identifying people by saying, "Hey that person looks Catholic", or "She's a Catholic". It just comes of as derogatory.
> 
> ...


No Jewish person that I know of would suggest that 'shiksa' is anything more than an attractive gentile girl - don't know where you got blonde or negative connotation - note the Seinfeld episode in which Elaine is referred to as a shiksa.

And with this post, I am officially done with this thread. Tolerance of hate, bigotry and prejudice simply fosters its growth.


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## NewYorkBuck (May 6, 2004)

I wish I had the three minutes of my life back that I spent reading this thread......


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> I am a NYC born and being man of Jewish background that does not mind the term "jew", I do not find it insulting but I do prefer Jewish to Jew.


My Politically Correct dictionary recommends "Jewish person" rather than "Jew". I think the idea is that "Jewish" indicates one attribute among any number of others, whereas "Jew" defines the whole person, reducing him or her to some sort of type (or stereotype even). Same thing with Black as a noun. "American" as a noun is fine apparently. I suspect that "Arab" may not so good right now.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> 
> Correct, all your Jewish friends use the term, however, in most situations, that term has been used in a derogatory fashion. No one goes around identifying people by saying, "Hey that person looks Catholic", or "She's a Catholic". It just comes of as derogatory.


Actually, I'm Catholic and I don't mind that. I hear it a lot when I wear a plaid skirt and knee socks.

However, of course, there are lots of Catholic Koreans and Jewish Ethiopians, so making a determination about someone's religious faith based on appearance is rather difficult anyway.


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Andy_
> 
> Carnivore!
> 
> Andy


You, sir are evil, whether you realize it or not. I insist on my great grandmothers grave that you take that back!

Any and all members are welcome to refer to me as "that greasy ***," "****," "greaseball," "guido," or anything else derrogatory to Italians. Except for Chuck. He'd better not try any of that sh!t.

Tom

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

Maybe we should focus on more important topics like wearing or not wearing jeans with French cuff shirts or wearing shorts around and about or not opening the second button of your shirt if you're over 30. You know, really important matters.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
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[]

I'm not so sure "you look _Catholic_" is quite the right way to put it!


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

I have no problem with the term "jew", or "jewish"

and I would change tailors.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yellman_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It means a fellow jewish person.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> No Jewish person that I know of would suggest that 'shiksa' is anything more than an attractive gentile girl - don't know where you got blonde or negative connotation - note the Seinfeld episode in which Elaine is referred to as a shiksa.
> 
> And with this post, I am officially done with this thread. Tolerance of hate, bigotry and prejudice simply fosters its growth.


I believe that "shiksa" was originally an insult, and the OED etymology ("Yiddish shikse, ad. Heb. iqÃ¢, f. sheqe a detested thing + -Ã¢ fem. suff") seems to confirm that.

Aus


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I never took shiksa as a compliment when I would hear my parents use the term. It is one of those words that has different meanings for each of us I would say, I like the cute non jewish girl definition better than just any woman or girl that is not Jewish (as I was always led to believe the meaning was).



> quote:_Originally posted by Aus_MD_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


guit


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well...not always.

My maternal grandparents came from Austria around 1908. They were Roman Catholic and referred to many people as 'landsman' which simply meant 'countryman' or some one from the same country. I've never heard of this word having any reference to being Jewish. Actually 'landsman' is a word my mother still uses as a greeting to some of her childhood girl friends as in "Hello Landsman, was gibts?"
So I think the word may have two meanings depending on context.
Cheers


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both right. It's (obviously) German but is also Yiddish. In German it means _countryman;_ in Yiddish it means (as I learned a few months ago on this forum) _fellow Jewish person._


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## FIHTies (Jun 24, 2004)

Three Jewish men arrive in NYC from Europe, and decide to meet again in
20 years to see how they all made out in America.
20 years pass...
The first man asks the second, "So, nu? How'd you do?"
He replies: Vell, you know...ven I came to this country I had no idea
vhat to do with myself to make a livink. So I looked at my last name.
Goldstein. So I vent into the gold business. And oy, did I make a FORTUNE!"
He turns to the next man and asks, "So nu, how 'bout you?"
He says "Vell, like you I had no idea vhat I vas going to do in this
vast country to make a livink, so I too, looked to my last name.
Silverberg. So I vent into silver. And oy, did I make a fortune!"
So they both turn to the last man and say, "And you? Vat happened to
you?" So the third man said, "Vell, I too had no idea how I vas to make a
livink here in America, so I looked at my last name. Taylor. I said, das no
good. I never make money as a tailor. So I went to shul and prayed. I said
"G-d, if you make me a wealthy man, I promise to make You my partner."
So the first man said, "So, vat happened?"
The man replied, "Vas the matter? You never heard of Lord and Taylor?"

Jonathan J. Fischer​*www.FourInHand.com
888-FIH-Ties * 888-344-8437
Specializing in Clothing for Small Men
Hand Made Ties - Marinella Ties and Alex Begg Cashmere*​


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## FIHTies (Jun 24, 2004)

And while doing a google search for that oldie I came accross this one which I thought was cute too 

I met a Chinese man who told me his name was Abe Schwartz. I told him
he didn't look Jewish, to which he replied "I'm not." "So how did you get
that name?" I asked. "Did your mother marry a Jewish man?" "Oh no, when I
first came to this country and was standing on the immigration line, the
man in front of me was named Abe Schwartz. When it came my turn, they asked
me my name and I told them 'Sem Ting.'"

Jonathan J. Fischer​*www.FourInHand.com
888-FIH-Ties * 888-344-8437
Specializing in Clothing for Small Men
Hand Made Ties - Marinella Ties and Alex Begg Cashmere*​


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## FIHTies (Jun 24, 2004)

and dont forget this classic!

On a business trip Sam Goldstein misses his flight back to America and gets stuck in Japan for the High Holidays. Having no other choice he asks the locals if there is a community of Jews anywhere and is directed to a beautiful looking synagogue. Whe he walks in the Rabbi, an oriental man walks over and asks if he can help him. Sam explains that he is a Jew and is looking for a place for the Holidays, the Rabbi looks at him and exclaims "Funny, you don't look Jewish."

Jonathan J. Fischer​*www.FourInHand.com
888-FIH-Ties * 888-344-8437
Specializing in Clothing for Small Men
Hand Made Ties - Marinella Ties and Alex Begg Cashmere*​


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Yellman, I see someone else took a stab at explaining _landsman_. If I'm not wrong, it actually means 'countryman' in Yiddish, meant to refer to a fellow Jew or Jewish person, as some prefer.

I hope this puts the lid on it. I'm going next door and discuss Trad coffee which is marginally less agitating.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As you can see that your sensitivity to this issue was very high. For a "jewish person" made the coin comment. Relax, it is this type of behavior that fosters nonsense political correctness and has put a hold on free speech. No one should be made to feel that they are walking on eggshells because of hypersensitive people, this practice is not productive and only fosters anger and resentment. I am certainly not advocating bigotry as you have implied, and I actually resent your implication. What I am advocating is a longer fuse, nothing more and nothing less. Calm down man, let's move on.

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That information was ex-poste, and in my last post, I did put an end to it, if one actually chose to read it. But given you rudeness I feel compelled to response, none-the-less, your ignorance when it comes to political correctness, or more appropriate - consideration towards others has now been exposed for all to see. Free speech today is being squashed not by political correctness, but in fact the opposite.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are right I was editing while you posted, I made a mistake and was trying to remedy it. Read it now!

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only further proves my point in general and about you sir. If responding to a racially charged, anti-semetic comment makes my 'hypersensitive' than guilty as charged, and I will always respond that way. Whether the original commentator was jewish or otherwise matters not - making such comments only serves to keep such deragatory, insulting sterotypes alive and well. There is no place in this world for a 'longer fuse' to thereby allow 'playful' bigotry - period. How 'long a fuse' is required? At what point does some have the right to be upset? Obviously you have been blind to other posters who have made identical points and supported my commentary thus far.

Are you jewish? I am guessing not. Should it not say something that everyone who identified themselves as jewish save for xcubbies, has said that the comment was highly inappropriate say anything to you?

I am highly confident that a deragatory stereotype was posted about your heritage or religion, without the poster identifying himself as to his true intentions, you would (hopefully) be reacting in exactly the same manner - but given your reponses on this topic, I doubt it.

I am no longer going to waste any time debating this point with someone who is so obviously blind to common courtesy and what it means to foster a civilized society.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

It's been suggested that since most of the clothing portion of this discussion is over (and maybe the religion discussion is over too!) that this thead be moved to the Interchange.

I'll do that in a short while!

Andy


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

cfriedberg - You have a right to get upset anytime you want, if it is reasonable, well thats another matter. Implying that I am a bigot when I say for people to be less sensitive shows how hypersensitive you are.



> quote:I am highly confident that a deragatory stereotype was posted about your heritage or religion, without the poster identifying himself as to his true intentions, you would (hopefully) be reacting in exactly the same manner - but given your reponses on this topic, I doubt it.


Don't judge me you don't know me.



> quote:I am no longer going to waste any time debating this point with someone who is so obviously blind to common courtesy and what it means to foster a civilized society.


I am willing to bet you are the next poster, I could be wrong, but yor being hypersensitive and well... Let's see!

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

What will either of you win when this is over?

How about the clothes??

Could you fight by Email??


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## malinda (Aug 25, 2002)

*I said just ONE warning. Moved to the Interchange.

Malinda*


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## wheredidyougetthathat (Mar 26, 2006)

Slapping people down whenever they make a remark that one feels could be interpreted as manifesting an insufficient degree of sensitivity is a heck of a way to fight prejudice.

It might even lead people to believe that the person performing the slapdown does so for the pleasure of it rather than for the sake of fostering tolerance and good will.



Somebody: "I tell you, he's so well dressed that when he walks down the street people turn around to look at him."
Beau Brummell: "Then he is not well dressed."


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> cfriedberg - You have a right to get upset anytime you want, if it is reasonable, well thats another matter. Implying that I am a bigot when I say for people to be less sensitive shows how hypersensitive you are.
> 
> ...


Look at that GT3, wrong again, now officially, you are a jackass.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> If responding to a racially charged, anti-semetic comment makes my 'hypersensitive' than guilty as charged, and I will always respond that way.


Sounds like shoot first ask questions later. I actually re-read the post you lifted the quote from and noticed you forgot to include GT3s stating anti-semitic people should leave the forum.

Should I not have a long fuse and accuse you of deliberately distorting the quote to cast aspirations on GT3s character?

I don't agree with everything everyone posts nor the manner in which they post, but you know...sometimes it's better to ask a question or two before before condemning anyone. Or as it was put have a longer fuse.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:Look at that GT3, wrong again, now officially, you are a jackass.


You are not still mad are you? Maybe you will be done after this post. Did you just become uncivilized. Psst look below!



> quote:and I am too civilized a person to use stronger terms to describe you


Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got to the end of my fuse with you. But when you re-post, I'll let you get the last word in...


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Jordan_
> 
> To some degree, it's the opposite. Cfriedberg was objecting to the use of "Jew" as a noun, specifically the sentence: "I did not intend for this to be a racial discussion as to what a Jew looks like or anything of this matter." It is similar to writing "I did not intend for this to be a racial discussion as to what a black looks like...."
> 
> This is subtle, but it would be more appropriate to write "Jewish person," as it would be more appropriate to write "black person."


Are you serious? You can't call someone a Jew you have to call them a "Jewish person"? I think that's pretty silly. There's nothing offensive in using the word "Jew" and if people take offense to it than that's their problem.

Oh wait, I think I hear the Anti-defamation league knocking on my door...

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nah, you lost your fuse on your first post. It was fun playing with you. Of course it would not be as fun if you were not hypersensitive. And thanks for the privilidge of the last post.

BTW... Marketing (in your case uncivilized mudslinging) to a sophisticated crowd usually does not work.



> quote:your ignorance when it comes to political correctness, or more appropriate - consideration towards others has now been exposed for all to see.


Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by xcubbies_
> 
> Yellman, I see someone else took a stab at explaining _landsman_. If I'm not wrong, it actually means 'countryman' in Yiddish, meant to refer to a fellow Jew or Jewish person, as some prefer.
> 
> I hope this puts the lid on it. I'm going next door and discuss Trad coffee which is marginally less agitating.


Decaf is decidedly NOT trad, so I don't understand how Trad coffee could be "less agitating".


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> Nah, you lost your fuse on your first post. It was fun playing with you. Of course it would not be as fun if you were not hypersensitive. And thanks for the privilidge of the last post.
> 
> BTW... Marketing (in your case uncivilized mudslinging) to a sophisticated crowd usually does not work.


A) you are far from sophisticated, b) the vast majority of the people who posted on this thread agree with me and c) your 'playing' comment other further proves my characterization of you.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

just one thing about landsman - I don't think very many people of our generations use it in the states, but I find it pretty common amoung european jews, espetially secular jews who don't live in a very jewish community. 

it is a word in yiddish, taken from german. I think that a lot of immigrants from german speaking parts of europe use it, in the states, to refer to people who came from their same community in europe.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought you said I was going to have the last post? For your sake read the thread again. No one has agreed with your "characterization" of me. Are you about to expolde, your fuse has run out? Yup, I was playing with you to show how hypersensitive you are. This is too easy, you are so hypersensitive that you just can't stop posting even when you say you will. Looking forward to your next post. 

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> Yup, I was playing with you to show how hypersensitive you are. This is too easy, you are so hypersensitive that you just can't stop posting even when you say you will. Looking forward to your next post.
> 
> Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


LOL, I'm actually quite fine now, its enjoyable reading your most recent post, written like a two year old actually, pretty funny, show's your level of maturity.


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

How did a two year old get the best of you? Well you are hypersesitive (this is not an insult). You keep throwing insults on every post, while I have refraied from making comments on your maturity, your jackass-ness, lack of sophistication. I guess I am less mature. [V]

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gentlemen,

Just wanted to point out that this thread began in the Fashion Forum -more proof that the much maligned Interchange is far more civilized than the savage Fashion Forum. 

But if the word Jew is offensive can the same said of the plural? Christian, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist are descriptive terms, not offensive ones. I don't think you should be offended by the term bc you then give credence to the repulsive idea that a Jew is something bad. Let us educate people rather than indulge their ignorance.

Karl


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> ...


Point taken Karl, I had my fun. Back to matters sartorial. Let's see if cfriedberg complies!

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> ...


Hear, hear.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> How did a two year old get the best of you? Well you are hypersesitive (this is not an insult). You keep throwing insults on every post, while I have refraied from making comments on your maturity, your jackass-ness, lack of sophistication. I guess I am less mature. [V]
> 
> Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


LOL, GT3, you truly are a child. How you determined that 'you got the best of me' is beyond me. To suggest that 'having fun' at the expense of someone else makes you more mature? That is truly laughable.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Okay, I think we should settle this once and for all.

We will duel with custard pies at 4 paces.


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

So let me make sure I understand you PC extremists....

When Ghandi said, _"Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew"_ , He was actually defaming himself?


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

BTW: Can I insult people as a group such as saying "You PC extremist idiots" as long as I don't name specific members or must I refrain from such generalities?


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## cfriedberg (Mar 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by android_
> 
> BTW: Can I insult people as a group such as saying "You PC extremist idiots" as long as I don't name specific members or must I refrain from such generalities?


No, you have come in so late, and apparently not read the entire thread. The point I, and Malinda, and numerous other people on this thread took issue with was *xcubbies post "Could it have something to do with catching coins in them?"*

The "Jew vs Jewish" comment was not something I and a number of other people pointed out one should be careful when using, since, depending on its context, it could be construed as derogatory.

xcubbies has since apologized. others, GT3 being the most vocal, apparently felt there was no need. this is also where numerous other people, including myself, also took issue. My mistake was in not taking EL72's advice which he wrote about on the 10th or so post of this thread, right after my initial post in reaction to the coin comment:

EL72's post:
"Tasteless is hardly the adjective I would use but as I have no desire to trigger yet another pointless discussion, I shall leave you all to this most absurd of threads.â€


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## GT3 (Mar 29, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What? Another spin by cfriedberg (re-read mpcsb's post, just one of many)?



> quote:xcubbies has since apologized. others, GT3 being the most vocal, apparently felt there was no need.


Where did I "feel" this? I don't remember.



> quote:this is also where numerous other people, including myself, also took issue.


Who beside you took issue with me?

What is your profession marketing, P.R.? As I said before, these stunts do not work on sophisticated audiences.

Get over it cfriedberg, you are hypersensitive this thread is not good for your health. You are going to have a heart attack by the end of the day, relax.

android - you can say whatever you want, but cfriedberg will, of course take issue; sort of "shoot from the hip." This guy will leave things out of arguments to misrepresent the thread to his liking. No sense fighting him. He is about to cry . Just let it be... 

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

I am both a Jew and unoffended by xcubbies joke. Take that for what it is worth.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> I am both a Jew and unoffended by xcubbies joke. Take that for what it is worth.


you mean you're a "Jewish person" right...? 

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I forgot that I don't post in the interchange anymore. Don't tell GMAC.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

All these rules imposed by tailors.

Pleats - cuffs
No pleats - no cuffs
Worn by someone Jewish - cuffs

I'm Italian, do I have to wear my pants inside out?



_Deny Guilt, Demand Proof and Never Speak Without an Attorney!_​


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Trenditional_
> 
> All these rules imposed by tailors.
> 
> ...


Perhaps that is why I wear cuffs with flat front pants. Unfortunately I ted to catch grit and lint but no coins.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Trenditional_
> 
> All these rules imposed by tailors.
> 
> ...


No, but you have to wear a different shoe on each foot.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by cfriedberg_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I read the thread and saw the original comment. Although I can understand how some stereotypes such as laziness or stupidity would be derogatory, I cannot see how in any way thriftiness would be considered as such. I think this is just the extremist PC XXX crowd deciding for everyone that ALL stereotypes are offensive which I don't believe to be true. Thriftiness, work ethic, loyalty, engineering ability and many other positive stereotypes have a basis in reality and to ignore that fact is espousing ignorance.


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

Sorry, I have to try to keep the dialogue reasonably honest, through all the inflammatory nonsense...

If xcubbies is to be taken at his word (I know of no reason he should not; clue me in if you do), his initial comment was not proffered a "joke", tasteless or otherwise. It was merely an attempt -- perhaps insufficiently articulated -- to draw a logical connection between the tactless comment by Yellman's tailor and an offensive stereotype that he himself had heard articulated in the past:



> quote:_Originally posted by xcubbies_
> My apologies if I offended. The original question triggered a memory, perhaps it was a joke, that I thought was relevant. The truth is, I am a landsman, myself.


Now does anyone care to offer suggestions for combatting Anti-Semitism? Or even to discuss (in a productive, non-confrontational, adult manner) how a Jewish person referring to himself as a "J--" might unwittingly contribute to perpetuating Anti-Semitism? That would probably be a more productive use of our time. I mean, as long as we've been banished to the Interchange, the cuff issue is moot, so why not make a silk purse out of... um, never mind.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

By the way, this reminds me. People should also stop saying "I got gyped" because it's an ethnic slur against gypsies.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Odoreater,

That's Roma to you sir, not Gypsies! 

Btw a great book on Gypsies is Bury Me Standing by Isabela Fonseca.

Karl


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> 
> Odoreater,
> 
> ...


Doh! How could I?

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> By the way, this reminds me. People should also stop saying "I got gyped" because it's an ethnic slur against gypsies.
> 
> _I fought the law and the law won._​


Actually, that really is a derogatory slur. But hardly anyone says that anymore. They tend to say 'ripped off'. Which, I suppose, might be a slur against... bodybuilders? Oversleepers?


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> Should I not have a long fuse and accuse you of deliberately distorting the quote to cast aspirations on GT3s character?


You sir are a dolt. For all the 'aspirations' GT3 may or may not have, your imbecilic command of the Anglo language (English would have been derogetory, right?) faailed miserably in search of the word 'aspersions.'

_damn, that wasn't very convincing. I have to work on taking myself as seriously as non-specific hypersensitive board members who should not consider themselves to be generalized by this comment. is there a school for that?_

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tiger02_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tom, are you familiar with the expression "hoist on one's own petard"?

Aus


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tiger02_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess we are both dolts then, you 'faailed' in spelling as well. [}]


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

I resemble both those comments 

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tiger02_
> 
> I resemble both those comments
> 
> ...


LOL


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Aus_MD_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As you have also been hoisted.

One can only be hoisted by a petard, not on one.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

Enough with this thread! Otherwise I will start one about ***** Trousers.


Karl


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Derogatory with an _a_. From Latin _derogare_


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> 
> Gents,
> 
> ...


No no no! We have plenty of jeans threads already. 

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> 
> Gents,
> 
> ...


Try the trad forum. Search under patch madras.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, to quote someone:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tiger02

I resemble both those comments

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

Yellman,
*
If you're happy with your tailor, please go back to him and ask him what he meant by his comment. Indeed, ask anyone else who makes the same remark. I'm dying to know! *

FWIW, I'm Jewish and reasonbly active in my synagogue, yadda yadda...

But I haven't found anything in this thread to be offensive in the least. The jokes are funny, some of the comments may be based on misinformation or ignorance, but IMO there's nothing mean-sprited or anti-semitic. There have been comments make by people here and on SF that were anti-semitic and I've pointed them out.

The catching coins in the cuff thing may be the answer and if it is, then the tailor is an anti-semite.

For whatever reason, I'm rarely, if ever, offended by such remarks because my automatic thought is that they reflect on the person making them. I'm curious about that type of thinking and sometimes find it funny that people are that stupid.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_


Tom, are you familiar with the expression "hoist on one's own petard"?

Aus
[/quote]

As you have also been hoisted.

One can only be hoisted by a petard, not on one.
[/quote]

[:I]

Aus


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mano_
> 
> The catching coins in the cuff thing may be the answer and if it is, then the tailor is an anti-semite.


That's quite a sweeping accusation based on very little substantive knowledge of this man's character.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, it's an accurate statement if the tailor actually believes it, or something like it. The tailor may be a nice enough fellow and his anti-semitism may be a function of his ignorance as opposed to any hostile or malicious intent. In other words he's prejudiced based on stereotypes. In my experience, most anti-semites are in that category.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mano_
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What's all the fuss about?

Look, there is a joke that goes like this: Why do Jews have cuffed trousers? Dunno. To catch coins. Ha ha ha. Apart from being tasteless and not funny, this joke is old, very old. There are plenty of jokes that are just as tasteless and unfunny (and old) aimed at women, the French, the Irish, Italians, Poles, Germans, Arabs, handicapped people, blind people, people with aids, old people, Blacks, Latinos, etc. etc. There always will be, I'm afraid.

Maybe your tailor thought he was being funny.

Could the tailor himself have been Jewish? Wry self-mockery is always a possibility.


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
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As old as it may be, I've never heard the joke before. And here I thought I'd heard them all! It's clever and fits in with many of the negative "Jewish jokes" that I've heard. Good point about self-mockery being a possibility. I'm also open to the possibility that he's not jewish, isn't an anti-semite and he simply thought he was being funny.


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## SartoNYC (Feb 22, 2005)

Malinda, Gimme a break. Everybody else is bending over backwards to be solicitious. What a stupid topic anyway.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mano_
> 
> I'm also open to the possibility that he's not jewish, isn't an anti-semite and he simply thought he was being funny.


Since you know so very little about this man and who he is and why he said what he said, then it's really inappropriate for you to call him an anti-semite. In fact, if you ask me, calling him an anti-semite based on so little information is just as bad as the type of stereotyping that you are opposed to. People's lives or careers have been ruined by such allegations, so you should be more careful when you make them.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

Here's a joke for you. Three software engineers walk into a bar.

Thud.

Thud.

Thud.

So now am I an anti-software engineerite?

Or perhaps I am mocking myself? Just because someone tells a joke based on a stereotype doesn't mean they hate the person in the joke.

And if the stereotype is positive, then why is there a problem at all?

Are some of you really so far gone in to polically correct thinking that you think ALL stereotypes are racist and defamatory?

Who would consider thriftiness or frugality to be negative traits?

Can Scotsmen no longer be known for penny pinching and engineering skill either?

Personally, I think some of you need to get over yourselves.


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

> _Originally posted by android_
> 
> Here's a joke for you. Three software engineers walk into a bar.
> 
> ...


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Why hassle Malinda?

All she did was move a non-clothing related thread to the interchange.


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yellman_
> 
> 
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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
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I didn't ask you.

If you bothered to read what I wrote you'd see that my comments were contextual, exactly as they should be.


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

OK, Here's another one.

How can you spot an extroverted software engineer?

He's the one that looks at YOUR shoes while he talks to you.

Well, now I've done it. I've told a joke based on the stereotype of engineers being introverted and shy.


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yellman_
> 
> 
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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mano_
> 
> 
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On the one hand you say "if the guy said X...then he is an anti-semite." On the other hand you say "even if the guy said X...maybe he's not an anti-semite." Before you go calling somebody an anti-semite you should know what and who you are talking about. Don't just make categorical allegations about people. It's ignorant.

Telling a joke about Jews doesn't make one an anti-semite.

And with that I present to you: a Jewish joke [:0]

An elderly man in Miami calls his son in New York and says, "I hate to ruin your day, but I have to tell you that your mother and I are divorcing. Forty-five years of misery is enough." 
"Pop, what are you talking about?" the son screams.

"We can't stand the sight of each other any longer," the old man says. "We're sick of each other, and I'm sick of talking about this, so you call your sister in Chicago and tell her," and he hangs up.

Frantic, the son calls his sister, who explodes on the phone, "Like heck they're getting divorced," she shouts, "I'll take care of this." She calls her father immediately and screams at the old man, "You are NOT getting divorced! Don't do a single thing until I get there. I'm calling my brother back! , and we'll both be there tomorrow. Until then, don't do a thing, DO YOU HEAR ME?" and hangs up.

The old man hangs up his phone and turns to his wife. "Okay," he says, "They're coming for Passover and paying their own airfares."

- jokes.jewish.net

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
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Oy vey (sigh). That's the context! You're like a terrier that won't let go of something. However, in this case, you never had a grip on it in the first place. You are agreeing with me but yet you insist on connecting the dots and comming up with an innacurate picture. I'm not going to take you by the hand and lead you around so you might possibly "get it."

BTW, the joke is an oldie but a goodie.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I would say the following, telling a joke at the expense of any one, their ethnic group, their heritabe, etc does indeed make someone a potential bigot....I am never comfortable with any jokes at teh expense of another person or group. Maybe just my sensitivity. Now this tailor may nave meant nothing....that is surely possible. I cannot tell you how often someone says something to me that is just plain ignorant about Jewish people...I chuck it up to ignorance with no harm intended most times...but that really does not make it much better.

guit


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

I don't think that a joke about my ethincity bothers me very much. I am much more concerned when I see a statement that blankets all jews or blacks or italians together.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Thanks, that was my point, maybe a bit clearer.



> quote:_Originally posted by globetrotter_
> 
> I don't think that a joke about my ethincity bothers me very much. I am much more concerned when I see a statement that blankets all jews or blacks or italians together.


guit


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

What really amuses me is that there was this blowup over a harmless joke and maybe an insensitive comment by a tailor, but when a member makes a comment that (to my mind) actually denigrates Jews or blacks, no one says a *ucking word. (EG: racial diversity leads to sloppy thinking in Universities, I don't want to go to parties and have to listen to a conversation about rabbis)

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by tiger02_
> 
> What really amuses me is that there was this blowup over a harmless joke and maybe an insensitive comment by a tailor, but when a member makes a comment that (to my mind) actually denigrates Jews or blacks, no one says a *ucking word. (EG: racial diversity leads to sloppy thinking in Universities, I don't want to go to parties and have to listen to a conversation about rabbis)
> 
> ...


actually, Tom, a few times some of us have commented on that kind of thing, and the person who made the statement blasted away with "you guys are too sensitive" and it all blew over.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

so a catholic priest collar, a kilt and a jewish trouser went up a bar one day..... [}]


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by acidicboy_
> 
> so a nehru jacket, a kilt and a jewish trouser went up a bar one day..... [}]


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

deleted


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

deleted

sorry about these.


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by acidicboy_
> 
> deleted
> 
> sorry about these.


Oh come on, the one about the Nehru jacket was pretty funny. [:0]


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