# (new) Bass "Gilman": Is this the penny loafer we've been waiting for?



## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

In my usual digging around for shoes on the internet, I noticed tonight this new Bass model called the "Gilman" on OnlineShoes.com, a site which always has new models on their site before anyone else. Here's the links to the black and brown models:

https://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gilmanbrown1rj2.png
https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gilmanbrown2nb9.png
https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gilman2jh0.png

Don't pay any attention to the product description: if the standard Weejuns have leather soles at ~US$95-$99, then I'm willing to bet that the Gilmans at US$129.95 probably have leather soles too.

Could these be the slightly-higher-quality-than-normal-Weejuns some of us have been demanding for years? Yes, they're lined, but overall they appear to be much better quality than the standard Weejun models (with the brush-off and rubber heels) and they come in a proper brown colour. If they're any good, I'll buy a dozen.

Merry Christmas, penny loafer lovers!


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

That does look promising. 

I will be in the DC area over Xmas, and I will try to track down a pair in person.


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## bluemagic (Oct 11, 2008)

Here's the link for reference. Looks like a definite upgrade the standard issue made in Latin America Weejuns I'm wearing right now.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

There's something about the appearance of the outer edges of the soles that makes me give credance to the product description. Too perfectly rounded or something. Given the appearance of the bottom of the outsole, the interesting question is what they may have been synthesized from? It's pretty convincing from that angle.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Yeah, wow those look nice. Lined, and made with leather that doesn't need to be painted to look acceptable. Not bad, I will consider them.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Well I sure don't need another pair of pennies but, should one of those 20% off sales come along and the Bass Gilman price dropped to just over $100, it just might prove to be a worthy experiment!  Thanks for the heads-up, Doc.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Yea these certainly look wonderful for the money. Any idea what the synthetic soles are hewn from? The pictures certainly make them look like leather; I wonder if its a typo and they really are leather...


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

If you can stomach a beef roll penny, the ski-moc from Johnston & Murphy is another good option at the same price point.

-- Leather soles
-- Available not just in brown and black, but also burgundy/cordovan


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> There's something about the appearance of the outer edges of the soles that makes me give credance to the product description. Too perfectly rounded or something. Given the appearance of the bottom of the outsole, the interesting question is what they may have been synthesized from? It's pretty convincing from that angle.


Looking closer, I have to agree with you. Even so, they can be replaced with leather at the first re-soling, and at least we have the classic Weejun styling with decent leather uppers as a starting point. That's a step forward.



The Louche said:


> Any idea what the synthetic soles are hewn from?


Flexible plastic. Bass sold Weejuns with synthetic soles: I don't know the date but I've got some photos to prove the use of synthetics. Mind you, the leather they currently use on the classic Weejuns is pretty 'plasticky' in itself.

This is slightly off-topic, but...

Can anyone comment on the difference between Bass D and EEE widths? In Alden and other brands the difference would be huge, but photos of Weejuns I've seen suggest that EEE isn't that much wider than D.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

^

So Doc,

Is that a confirmation that these have plastic soles then? Do you take back your speculative statement about real leather soles from the OP? Have you learned something new since then?

I like these so much I made a friend buy some. I certainly hope the soles are leather...


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

The Louche said:


> Is that a confirmation that these have plastic soles then? Do you take back your speculative statement about real leather soles from the OP? Have you learned something new since then?


I have not yet seen these in real life, so I know nothing more. I was simply agreeing with Questionable Gent that the sole edges look a little too perfect for this level of shoe. On the other hand, why would they bother to attach a synthetic heel with slugging? From below, they certainly resemble Alden Cap Cods (astonishingly).



> I like these so much I made a friend buy some. I certainly hope the soles are leather...


As I said, if not then they can be replaced with leather soles/heels at the first re-soling. Who knows? Maybe the synthetic soles will last longer. Bass are lower-end shoes, like it or not, and I'm just happy to have an alternative to the dreaded glossy "brush-off" leather for the uppers, although I admit the dreaded glossy "brush-off" leather looks better on the current Weejuns than it does on other brands.

There is a Bass store and outlet in Niagara Falls, NY (on the infamous Military Road) so I shall visit in January and hopefully fondle them in person. If not, at least I can try on some different sizes/widths of the classic Weejuns.

As soon as someone knows anything about these, please post the info. I for one am cautiously optimistic about these shoes (fingers crossed!).


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

My only quibble is that I wish the tassel version was sans kiltie.

Just not a kiltie man.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

*UPDATE*

Gents,

I just called a number on the G.H. Bass website and was directed to a customer service rep (albeit after a few calls and 20 minutes).

The rep told me the soles were leather. She didn't seem terribly informed so I didn't push her on the heels, but never-the-less she apparently talked to someone who was informed and passed the word along...


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## ConservativeFellow (Dec 27, 2008)

How are these? What penny loafer does one recommend? or should I just purchase an Alden Calfskin LHS?


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## pt10023 (Jan 14, 2008)

ConservativeFellow said:


> How are these? What penny loafer does one recommend? or should I just purchase an Alden Calfskin LHS?


I really, really love my Alden Calfskin LHS. They're incredibly comfortable. Even when you're not walking, they just feel nice on your feet.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

pt10023 said:


> ConservativeFellow said:
> 
> 
> > How are these? What penny loafer does one recommend? or should I just purchase an Alden Calfskin LHS?
> ...


That's what everyone says. But please note there is a substantial price difference between Bass and Alden, especially for shell cordovan Alden. These two shoes are in quite different leagues and aren't really comparable. If you can afford a pair of shell cordovan Aldens then you should buy them; if you can't then I'm hoping these new upgraded Bass models might do the trick.


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## pt10023 (Jan 14, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> That's what everyone says. But please note there is a substantial price difference between Bass and Alden, especially for shell cordovan Alden. These two shoes are in quite different leagues and aren't really comparable. If you can afford a pair of shell cordovan Aldens then you should buy them; if you can't then I'm hoping these new upgraded Bass models might do the trick.


Good point. Hopefully these shoes will work out well for you.


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## ner1971 (Apr 8, 2007)

Hello Everyone. I received a pair today. They are definitely an upgrade from the Weejuns available for the last few years.  The leather is decent, although perhaps a bit "Rockport" for my own personal tastes. Not brush-off, of course. I am eager to see how they shine up after a few visits to my local shine stand. The upper and outsole is indeed leather, while the remainder is man-made. I should add that, yes, they are made in El Salvador. The styling remains classic Bass Weejun though and as other posters have noted it's very nice to have them available in brown. We will see how they look after a few months.


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

ner1971 said:


> Hello Everyone. I received a pair today. They are definitely an upgrade from the Weejuns available for the last few years. The leather is decent, although perhaps a bit "Rockport" for my own personal tastes. Not brush-off, of course. I am eager to see how they shine up after a few visits to my local shine stand. The upper and outsole is indeed leather, while the remainder is man-made. I should add that, yes, they are made in El Salvador. The styling remains classic Bass Weejun though and as other posters have noted it's very nice to have them available in brown. We will see how they look after a few months.


Are they lined?


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## ner1971 (Apr 8, 2007)

Pgolden said:


> Are they lined?


Yes, unfortunately, they are lined.

From what I have seen online the brown is not the same color brown as the original Weejuns either. At first this did not bother me much, but it's starting to...we shall see.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

To answer an earlier question, in the current regular Bass Weegans the EEE pair I have is only slightly wider than the pair of D's I have. I've always worn a D...but as I've aged my feet seemed to have gotten a bit wider. Or maybe it's just the arthritis that has set in my left little toe I broke years ago. At any rate, I find the EEE's by Bass just right with the D's being only slightly snugger...even after lots of wear.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

ner1971 said:


> Hello Everyone. I received a pair today. They are definitely an upgrade from the Weejuns available for the last few years. The leather is decent, although perhaps a bit "Rockport" for my own personal tastes. Not brush-off, of course. I am eager to see how they shine up after a few visits to my local shine stand. The upper and outsole is indeed leather, while the remainder is man-made. I should add that, yes, they are made in El Salvador. The styling remains classic Bass Weejun though and as other posters have noted it's very nice to have them available in brown. We will see how they look after a few months.


Thanks for the short review. Keep us posted on performance.

How is the feet versus the regular Weejuns? The same?



ner1971 said:


> From what I have seen online the brown is not the same color brown as the original Weejuns either. At first this did not bother me much, but it's starting to...we shall see.


What colour is that original colour? I've only ever seen the reddish colour on the old ones and that's a colour no one seems to offer anymore (except Weston).



Saltydog said:


> To answer an earlier question, in the current regular Bass Weegans the EEE pair I have is only slightly wider than the pair of D's I have. I've always worn a D...but as I've aged my feet seemed to have gotten a bit wider. Or maybe it's just the arthritis that has set in my left little toe I broke years ago. At any rate, I find the EEE's by Bass just right with the D's being only slightly snugger...even after lots of wear.


I think it was me who asked. Thanks!


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## ner1971 (Apr 8, 2007)

Doctor Damage said:


> How is the feet versus the regular Weejuns? The same? What colour is that original colour? I've only ever seen the reddish colour on the old ones and that's a colour no one seems to offer anymore (except Weston).


By feet, do you mean fit? If so, they seem to be about the same - although my last pair of Weejuns were about 8 years old and in a wider size. I could have sworn they were Es, but I am not sure they were making them in this width then. The markings obvious wore off.

Yes, I mean the reddish brown color. I am basing this in samples from eBay only to tell the truth as well as someone who described the "original" color to me from back in the day. I wish the 50s Bass catalog someone posted in another thread was in color. I've always been curious about this.

After a few days, I must admit that I've gone back to fence-sitting and might very well return them. While an upgrade of sorts, it wasn't a huge step up for Bass (no pun intended).


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## tsweetland (Oct 2, 2006)

Just got a pair of these, they are quite nice. Nice color, much better made than standard weejuns. It was strange to get a pair of Bass shoes that come with cloth shoe bags. Recommended


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

tsweetland said:


> Just got a pair of these, they are quite nice. Nice color, much better made than standard weejuns. It was strange to get a pair of Bass shoes that come with cloth shoe bags. Recommended.


Good to know, thanks.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> In my usual digging around for shoes on the internet, I noticed tonight this new Bass model called the "Gilman" on OnlineShoes.com, a site which always has new models on their site before anyone else. Here's the links to the black and brown models:
> 
> https://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gilmanbrown1rj2.png
> https://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gilmanbrown2nb9.png
> ...


I've got an old pair of brown weejuns, no longer made, I bought in college circa 1980. They've been resoles 4 times and are on their last leg. I thought Bass would never make a pair of brown loafers again.


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

Thanks for the info. I have not seen these in person, but they definitely look like a huge improvement over the corrected-grain, reddish, plasticky Weejun sold by Bass at its outlet stores.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

These shoes are up on Zappos finally. It appears the soles are in fact a composite, not full leather, although as I said before that can be changed at the next re-soling. I hope these eventually migrate up to Canada, since the people at the BASS Outlet store in Buffalo had no idea what I was talking about when I called them.


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## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> These shoes are up on Zappos finally. It appears the soles are in fact a composite, not full leather, although as I said before that can be changed at the next re-soling. I hope these eventually migrate up to Canada, since the people at the BASS Outlet store in Buffalo had no idea what I was talking about when I called them.


Good to know. I stopped by a Bass store on Long Island and they didn't seem to have the Gilman out yet, or the Lewis.


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## pweller (May 21, 2008)

These look interesting, but I think I'm going to hold off until I see an official 'Doctor Damage Disassembly Thread' so I know exactly what I'm getting. Down to the component parts. :icon_smile_big:


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Any further comments on these shoes? Any observations after wearing them for a few weeks?

I see that someone on Style Forum has also ordered a pair but they're not in yet.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

I've been contemplating on these since I saw them here, and I have decided to order a pair later this week. I will post back here after I wear them for a while.

I made a post about sebago sherman and arcus here:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=898080&postcount=38

anyone owns these models?


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## epicuresquire (Feb 18, 2009)

Saltydog said:


> I find the EEE's by Bass just right with the D's being only slightly snugger...even after lots of wear.


I have had the same experience with Bass.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

I ordered them today. I wiill write back here when I get them.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Joe Beamish said:


> If you can stomach a beef roll penny, the ski-moc from Johnston & Murphy is another good option at the same price point.
> 
> -- Leather soles
> -- Available not just in brown and black, but also burgundy/cordovan


Stomach? I love a beef roll penny.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Zappos shipped them extra quick. I got the loafers today, and they are really good. The leather is supple and importantly, matter. Looks like full grain leather! Outsole is leather too, not composite. The shoes are made in El Salvador and came with shoe bags. These are the best bass shoes I have worn in 5-6 years easily. They look exactly like the pics on zappos.

edit:
I am not happy with the fit of the shoes. They don't seem to have the positive fit like my SAS loafers - the shoe is very loose on the sides of my feet (I got the D width, sz 9.5, my usual) eventhough the length is correct. I can maybe wear them with (pretty) thick socks, not sure ... am bummed because I was excited looking at the uppers when I opened the box.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

srivats said:


> Zappos shipped them extra quick. I got the loafers today, and they are really good. The leather is supple and importantly, matter. Looks like full grain leather! Outsole is leather too, not composite. The shoes are made in El Salvador and came with shoe bags. These are the best bass shoes I have worn in 5-6 years easily. They look exactly like the pics on zappos.
> 
> edit:
> I am not happy with the fit of the shoes. They don't seem to have the positive fit like my SAS loafers - the shoe is very loose on the sides of my feet (I got the D width, sz 9.5, my usual) eventhough the length is correct. I can maybe wear them with (pretty) thick socks, not sure ... am bummed because I was excited looking at the uppers when I opened the box.


Are they too wide in the heel or just too wide overall?


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

tinytim said:


> Are they too wide in the heel or just too wide overall?


Too wide in the heels. I am returning them


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

srivats said:


> Zappos shipped them extra quick. I got the loafers today, and they are really good. The leather is supple and importantly, matter. Looks like full grain leather! Outsole is leather too, not composite. The shoes are made in El Salvador and came with shoe bags. These are the best bass shoes I have worn in 5-6 years easily. They look exactly like the pics on zappos.


Good to know.



> I am not happy with the fit of the shoes. They don't seem to have the positive fit like my SAS loafers - the shoe is very loose on the sides of my feet (I got the D width, sz 9.5, my usual) eventhough the length is correct. I can maybe wear them with (pretty) thick socks, not sure ... am bummed because I was excited looking at the uppers when I opened the box.


I've noticed, from my limited experience, that Weejuns fit significantly different than Sebago, and different again than SAS.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

srivats said:


> Too wide in the heels. I am returning them


Most shoe I've found fit me that way. It isn't too bad if you can compensate with lacing. In a slip on or loafer there really isn't any way to adjust them. I love my old Bass so much I just endure.


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## pweller (May 21, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> I've noticed, from my limited experience, that Weejuns fit significantly different than Sebago, and different again than SAS.


Can you elaborate on this at all? For example, my pair of Sebagos fits perfectly. I have wide feet, but narrow heels. I like the looks of these Bass shoes, and to me the heel section looks pretty narrow from the photos. What has been your experience with the 3 brands?


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

pweller said:


> Can you elaborate on this at all? For example, my pair of Sebagos fits perfectly. I have wide feet, but narrow heels. I like the looks of these Bass shoes, and to me the heel section looks pretty narrow from the photos. What has been your experience with the 3 brands?


I've owned all three brands but _not at the same time_. Based on what my feet & memory tell me, Weejuns are a bit tighter in the toes than Sebago, while SAS are similar to Sebago but seemingly narrower in all dimensions. That won't help with ordering, but between all three brands each type of foot should be catered to...more or less...

Like you, I also have a wide forefoot and narrow heels, and I find the Weejuns are not good at accommodating those proportions, as my toes are tight but my heels slip too much. Sebago and SAS are probably better choices for that type of foot. The Sebago heels, however, are more curved (in side profile) compared to SAS and Weejuns, which may be a prob (it is for me).

You just gotta try them all (if possible) and see what works best.

That being said, if you're willing to drop $500 then there _are_ other options...


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

I just did some calcuations this morning to price out the Gilman (for me). Assuming I orderd them from Zappos Canada the total price to me, including all shipping, taxes, and duties, but excluding a retail bank's miserable currency exchange rates, would be ~CAD$235.

Ouch!


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

DD, let me know if you want me to get a pair and send it across in whatever shipping method you chose. Will be glad to help.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

srivats said:


> DD, let me know if you want me to get a pair and send it across in whatever shipping method you chose. Will be glad to help.


Thanks, I might take you up on that offer! Of course, you'd have to send them as a "gift" to help Canada Customs understand the situation...ho ho.

Can anyone post some "real world" photos of the Bass Gilman?


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## Hayek (Jun 20, 2006)

ConservativeFellow said:


> How are these? What penny loafer does one recommend? or should I just purchase an Alden Calfskin LHS?


If you want something dressier than the weejuns you can get the AE waldens, which I have and really really enjoy, for less than $250.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> Thanks, I might take you up on that offer! Of course, you'd have to send them as a "gift" to help Canada Customs understand the situation...ho ho.
> 
> Can anyone post some "real world" photos of the Bass Gilman?


Doc, no problem, lemme know.

The photos on zappos are very true. I tried taking pics with my cellphone camera but they came out pretty bad - and I have already returned the shoes


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

I telephoned my local SAS store today and discovered they no longer stock the handsewn penny loafer. So it looks like Bass is back at the top of my list now. The dollar just spiked up a bit today, so if that continues I will pop over to Niagara Falls NY and check out the Bass Outlet Store and see what they have.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Joe Beamish said:


> If you can stomach a beef roll penny, the ski-moc from Johnston & Murphy is another good option at the same price point.
> 
> -- Leather soles
> -- Available not just in brown and black, but also burgundy/cordovan


And J & M can refurbish them when they become worn.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> I telephoned my local SAS store today and discovered they no longer stock the handsewn penny loafer.


But they're on billboards all over town. I think they're made in the SAS factory down on S. Zarzamora and Laredo Highway.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

*thinking about trying out the new bass model*

thinking about trying out the new bass model

for the few of you who have tried the new bass shoes discussed above:

if I am a nine in AE loafers, what size would I be in, say, the bass gilman?


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## Chi (Feb 15, 2009)

Hayek said:


> If you want something dressier than the weejuns you can get the AE waldens, which I have and really really enjoy, for less than $250.


I agree 100%. I have a pair of AE Waldens & I love them. Best $220 I ever spent.


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

Chi said:


> I agree 100%. I have a pair of AE Waldens & I love them. Best $220 I ever spent.


I recently picked up some Sebago handsewn tassels for about $70 and was really pleased. Not sure if they would match Walden/Stowe, but much better than my Weejuns.


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## Lucky7 (Mar 10, 2009)

I picked up a pair of brand new Sebago with TOPY's for $22 shipped from a member of SF. I love them, and for $22 I don't really care about how soon they become beaters.


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## CEE88 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Bass Weejun - Gilman*

Gilman is $95 on Piperlime:

But I'm still probably going to go with the AE Walden (which I can get in a C width).


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## Drew Bernard (Feb 19, 2009)

Tucker has posted a review of the Bass 'Gilman' on his blog...

https://tuckerredux.blogspot.com/


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Drew Bernard said:


> Tucker has posted a review of the Bass 'Gilman' on his blog...
> 
> https://tuckerredux.blogspot.com/


Thanks! Finally we have a side-by-side comparison.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Aha!

Although the last thing I need is another loafer, I am impressed by the pics in Tucker's review. One way around the corrected grain problem is to avoid it altogether.

The design looks pretty much the same as Tucker's 1996 version.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL! Patrick, we always have room for another pair of penny loafers in the stable.  Indeed, Tucker's review is proving to be food for thought!


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

^ You guys are a bad influence...The last thing that I need is another pair of loafers.

Really, though, I'm not sure that I love these. One of the things that I have associated with -- and liked -- about the original, US made Weejun is the reddish tint to the burgundy-colored leather. These look more like my AE Danburys.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I did it. No discipline at all.


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

Patrick06790 said:


> I did it. No discipline at all.


Patrick, let's hear a review when they show up. I've been thinking about a pair myself--in black.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Pgolden said:


> Patrick, let's hear a review when they show up. I've been thinking about a pair myself--in black.


Okey doke.

Hang on to that notion - when I get back I'm going to start a thread on black loafers, esp. pennies.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

I tried them.

narrow toebox. wide heel - very wide - definite impending slippage (as someone else has mentioned here).

wasn't pleased with the over all shape, nor was I pleased with the sole construction; a visible 90 degree seam where the welt meets up, a la low-end Cole Haan. not really all that comfortable either.

all of that said, they are considerably less expensive than most.

I also did like the leather though, which might make the whole thing worth it for some. its as soft as it looks in the pictures, and the color is pretty much on as well.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

closerlook said:


> I tried them.
> 
> *narrow toebox. wide heel - very wide - definite impending slippage (as someone else has mentioned here).*
> 
> ...


That was me ... I really liked the leather but the heel area is humongously wide. I tried three different sizes and nothing fit. I'd rather buy another pair of SAS pennies (even though they are corrected grain) rather than the gilman.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

srivats said:


> That was me ... I really liked the leather but the heel area is humongously wide. I tried three different sizes and nothing fit. I'd rather buy another pair of SAS pennies (even though they are corrected grain) rather than the gilman.


indeed.
corrected grain is really the only bummer about the walden - which at this point is my current favorite. if only their forces could combine!


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

It's worth remembering that the Gilman is an upgraded version of the regular Weejuns, so the fit _should_ be the same.


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## gtnc (Aug 7, 2006)

*PSA Waldens*

For the AE Walden fans, the tent sale that runs through Monday in Burlington NC has the Waldens in Burgundy, Black or Brown! for $129. I have been looking for a loafer in brown and these Waldens are great. The number in Burlington is 336.227.1146


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