# A Hunter's Guide: Shell Model Numbers



## Cardinals5

For those Conchologists who like to troll the shores of the Bay for their shells, I thought a manual of shell codes might aid handily in their work (I considered a snipe hunting analogy, but it just wasn't in the bag). My list is necessarily incomplete - please add the model numbers of shell shoes that I either don't have in the list or have left blank. 

I have intentionally left out Alden since their shell models are so easy to determine. Please also post corrections if I have any wrong (it's not clear with some of the companies which number inside the shoes is the actual model number)

After a few weeks, I'll make a new post with all the updated shell model numbers and ask one of the mods to sticky it inside the hall of fame thread so it'll be there for easy access, but not so easy to find that non-forumites can use it (you'll notice that I haven't used the word "cordov n" in this post so it won't come up on google searches).

*Allen Edmonds* - for many years AE used a split (dovetail) heel on all their shell models, but recently they've started using them on other models as well. AE also changed shell model numbers on a few different shoes, which I've indicated by a backslash. For a couple of years, AE also used whiskey and cognac shell, but these are exceptionally rare and were primarily for the MTO market.

Bedford: 4363 (#8)
Bradley: 2681 (#8); 2611 (black)
Broadmoor: 7743/6348 (#8)
Cambridge:8685 (#8); 8625 (Whiskey)
Chukka: 8084 (#8)
Clifton: 3388 (#8)
Dundee: 3681S (#8)
Fairgate: 1381 (#8); 1311 (black); 1361 (Cognac)
Grayson: 8287 (#8); 8387 (black)
Hamilton: 5490 (#8)
Heather: 5868 (#8)
Hinsdale: 2884 (#8)
Imperial: 6748 (#8)
Kent: 6858 (#8) 
Leeds: 9548/9588/9581/9591 (#8); 9501 (black); 9651 (Cognac) 
MacNeil: 9097/9147/9187 (#8); 9177 (black); 9007 (Cognac)
Polo: 8284/8281
Randolph: 4889 (#8); 4899 (black)
Sanford: 5287/5297 (#8); 5227 (Whiskey)
Saratoga: 8783 (#8)
Scott: 7748 (#8) 
Slater: 9888 (#8)
Strand: 1645 (Brown) 
Walton: 2193 (Cognac)
Westchester: 1697 (#8)

*Barrie Ltd*
Shell shortwings: 

*Bostonian* - seem to have shell models in their regular and Crown Windsor lines
Shell longwings: 2351
Shell shortwings: 23608
Shell ptbs: 
Shell tassels: 23628 (#8); (black)

*British Walkers*
Shell longwings: 

*Florsheim* - there are couple of popular Florsheim shell models (longwings and ptbs), but there have also been a number of other Florsheim shell shoes over the years. I have left off the model names as well as the relative "line" (Imperial, Royal Imperial) below since it's fairly easy to determine those things when looking at the shoes.

Shell ptbs: 93606 (#8); 92650/92621 (black)
Shell longwings: 93605/97626/78006 (#8); ????? (black)
Shell tassels: 93231 (#8)
Shell venetian loafers: 78000 (#8)
Shell saddles: 97(?)324 (#8); ????? (black)
Shell monk straps: 

*Foot-Joy*
Shell tassels:
Shell longwings: 

*French Shriner (& Urner)*
Shell longwings: 8715?
Shell tassels:

*Hanover* - Hanover shells were issued in their regular, Imperial, and LB Sheppard lines.
Shell longwings: 2351 (#8)
Shell ptbs: 2168 (#8); ??? (black)
Shell saddles: 2100 (#8); 2106 (#8 and black)
Shell tassels: 2505 (#8)

*Johnston & Murphy* - Seem to have had shell models in the regular, Aristocraft, and Crown Aristocraft lines.
Shell beefroll: 24-9012
Shell lhs: 
Shell saddles: 
Shell shortwings: 24-4949
Shell tassels: 58528

*Keith Highlander*
Shell shortwings: 
Shell longwings: 8-3564
Shell ptbs: 53077A 357 0V

*Lloyd & Haig *
Shell shortwings:
Shell longwings: 

*Nettleton* - I've only seen Nettleton shells in burgundy, but there may be models in black
Shell longwings: 28167
Shell lhs: 82161 
Shell U-tip: 60990 
Shell tassels: 24519 (#8)

*Ralph Lauren*
Shell chukka: 81510/46140
Shell lhs:1812817/46121 (dark brown)
Shell shortwings: 46122
Shell longwing: 1812819 (dark brown)
Shell tassel:1812818 (dark brown)
Shell ptb: 46120

*Stuart McGuire*
Shell longwings: 

*Wright*
Shell shortwings: 396


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## TweedyDon

This is all very, very very helpful, Cards--many thanks for taking the time to do this!


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## jamesensor

Thank you very much for all this work. I just won my first pair of shells, due to your teachings on the thrift exchange -- and this will only fuel my efforts.


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## red sweatpants

A great resource! Thanks Cards.


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## Cardinals5

My pleasure guys. But, we need other forumites to post their shell model numbers as well.


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## GentlemanGeorge

Good work! I have a pair of Florsheim shell ptbs in black that are marked 92621. The interesting thing is while they have the v-cleat, there is no double row of nails and no five nails in the waist. They have also acquired an interesting patina from fading of the dye--it looks like #8 underneath.
Also, Nettleton Lazy Lacers in brown shell: 60990
Here's a picture if anyone wants to play the game:


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## windsor

Well, here are the numbers for a pair of cordo wingtips (not longwings) that I have often wondered about. They are merlot or like #8. Numbers 4105,11800....6 702Y/comb 15195. The sole is stamped "Genuine Shell Cordovan" The heel looks like Florshiem...has a steel wedge. No manufacturers name or any other printing in the shoe. Does not have the five nails in the sole typical of Florshiem Imperials.


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## Orgetorix

The Nettleton longwings are 28167, and Nettleton #8 tassels are 24519, I think. There are a couple other numbers inside mine, but I'm guessing that's it because it's closest to the longwing number.


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## TheWGP

Cardinals5 said:


> My pleasure guys. But, we need other forumites to post their shell model numbers as well.


Ask and ye shall receive...

E.T. Wright "medium-walnut/mahogany" shortwings, not sure what the model # is - if I had to guess, the 396. Here's how it's formatted:
11 E/C 27423349
(FLL) 396 - the FLL represents the Full Leather Lining mini-stamp.

C&J for RL fullstrap loafers, light brown shell: 46121 - there may be an "ALM" that looks like a prefix, but it's just the color - sometimes it gets written on without a space between the color & model number.

Martin Drake Imperial sold some #8 shell wingtip bluchers - I just mailed these out, but very few of the numbers were visible for certain. Just saying they're out there. Had a blue oval "name window" and soles said Genuine You-Know-What on them. 

Hanover cigar PTB's - I was 99.9% certain these were not just polished #8, but we'll see - I have a PM out to the guy who bought them asking if he can read any of the numbers on the inside. As I recall, they were faint but readable in the right light, so hopefully he'll have some luck and get back to me.


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## zbix

wow awesome. thank you so much! now i have to put this on my phone to carry with me at all times.


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## 32rollandrock

What a great service. Wingtip Bostonian Crown Windsor numbers PM'd.


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## Orgetorix

Some old AE models and numbers from the 50s and 60s (Cordoba was a burgundy color, lighter than today's #8):

Bedford 4363 (Cordoba) (PTB)
Broadmoor 7743 (Cordoba) ('60s, wingtip saddle blucher)
Broadmoor 6348 (Cordoba) ('50s, plain saddle blucher)
Heather 5868 (Cordoba) (PTB)
Imperial 6748 (Cordoba) (Wingtip bal w/eyelets)
Kent 6858 (Cordoba) (Wingtip bal)
Leeds 9548 (Cordoba) (PTB)
Macneil 9147 (Cordoba) (Longwing)
Scott 7748 (Cordoba) (Shortwing blucher)

And two that are new this year: 
Strand 1645 (Brown) (semi-brogue bal)
Westchester 1697 (Burgundy/#8) (full strap penny)


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## Orgetorix

And, lastly for tonight, the numbers inside my Polo cognac U-tips (C&J?) are ALM15301 on one side, and 1014727/146472 on the other. No idea which, if any, of those is the model number.


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## srivats

Great thread cards ...

I have a pair of vintage keith highlander PTBs ... these are the numbers inside: 53077A 357 0V


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## srivats

Florsheim shell tassels #8: 322419


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## AldenPyle

I have an 
AE Slater #8 Longwing 9888; 
AE Dundee #8 Chukka 3681S; 
AE Clifton #8 Quarter Brogue(?) Blucher 3388;


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## mcarthur

nephew cards,
as usual o/s work


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## catside

Thanks Cards. Super useful. Are you updating the first post as numbers come in? Appreciated.


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## AdamsSutherland

Bostonian Shell Penny Loafer (burgundy) 0351617? I can barely see those numbers and the last number is totally beyond me.


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## Cardinals5

catside said:


> Thanks Cards. Super useful. Are you updating the first post as numbers come in? Appreciated.


I did within the first 24 hours, but after that I'm no longer able to edit the original post. I'll wait until more people post their codes and then I'll update the entire list and either re-post it later in the thread or do a separate thread.


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## Cardinals5

AdamsSutherland said:


> Bostonian Shell Penny Loafer (burgundy) 0351617? I can barely see those numbers and the last number is totally beyond me.


Nice, I don't remember having seen Bostonian shell pennies. Post a pic when you get a chance (I know you're a "bit" busy preparing for your law school interview)


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## Cardinals5

Orgetorix said:


> The Nettleton longwings are 28167, and Nettleton #8 tassels are 24519, I think. There are a couple other numbers inside mine, but I'm guessing that's it because it's closest to the longwing number.


Orgetorix, is there the number 0208 inside your Nettleton shell longwings? I saw a picture of a pair Alan sold several years ago and the numbers are: 0208 or 36566

Edit: Okay, I figured it out - the shell number for Nettleton longwings is indeed "0208" (I've seen it on three pairs now). The shell model number for Nettleton lhs should also be switched to 368.


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## Orgetorix

Yep, they say 0208.


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## catside

Good luck and godspeed hunters! The voyage is more fun than the destination.


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## fiddler

If someone had some model numbers for the german makers as well, that would be appreciated. 
One day I hope to find these Dinkelackers in my size:


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## Cardinals5

9147 should be removed as one of AE's numbers for burgundy shell MacNeils. At one time 9147 was used for shell MacNeils, but it was more recently also used as a model number for polished cobbler (corrected grain) and I wouldn't want anyone mistaking one for the other based solely on the number.


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## Cardinals5

Footjoy shell saddles: 75291


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## jamesensor

Johnston & Murphy Aristocrats: 24-9312


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## Mazderati

AE Cambridge Black: 8605

Cards - You should petition one of the mods for access to edit your posts after the twenty four hour cutoff. Referencing an updated first post would be much better than scrolling through the thread looking for a particular shoe.


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## Cardinals5

Mazderati said:


> AE Cambridge Black: 8605
> 
> Cards - You should petition one of the mods for access to edit your posts after the twenty four hour cutoff. Referencing an updated first post would be much better than scrolling through the thread looking for a particular shoe.


I originally thought I'd get more codes on some rare shell models from other forumites, but that hasn't really happened. I'll have to keep doing some leg work to find the rarer codes. Once I have a pretty fair number of the codes I'll just start a new thread and have one of the mods pin it inside the "Hall of Fame" thread where it'll be available for easy access.


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## well-kept

Cardinals5 said:


> 9147 should be removed as one of AE's numbers for burgundy shell MacNeils. At one time 9147 was used for shell MacNeils, but it was more recently also used as a model number for polished cobbler (corrected grain) and I wouldn't want anyone mistaking one for the other based solely on the number.


Cards,

Ah, the oddities of AE's re-use of names and numbers! I have a pair of shell Saratogas marked 8783 from about 1984. I also have a pair of Saratogas (the same long-vamp tassel) in tan analine calf marked 8783 from 1977. You'd think they might have used another available digit for the shell, but no. The color of shell from that period looks comparable to today's #6, btw.


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## straw sandals

Can someone tell me if 93603 on a Florsheim Imperial denotes shell? Thanks very much!


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## Cardinals5

Keith Highlander burgundy shell shortwings: 3562V


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## Andy Roo

Cards, did you get my reply to your ebay message? 23319 is probably the code that you're looking for, for the Bostonian burgundy shell PTBs (Crown Windsor line).


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## closerlook

Cardinals5 said:


> Keith Highlander burgundy shell shortwings: 3562V


on that note:

edit: whoops, sorry - not shell.


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## well-kept

straw sandals said:


> Can someone tell me if 93603 on a Florsheim Imperial denotes shell? Thanks very much!


It's the tan calf plain toe.


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## straw sandals

Thanks, well-kept.


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## Cardinals5

Hanover black shell tassels: 3506 (could be 3606 - I can't see the numbers clearly)


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## Cardinals5

Footjoy burgundy shell cordovan tassel loafers: 75234


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## Cardinals5

Florsheim Royal Imperial burgundy shell lhs: 97164


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## closerlook

do we have numbers for crockett?


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## vegtan

*Add Florsheim black longwings shell number*

There might be other Florsheim black shell longwings numbers, but at least one is 92612. Imperial line.


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## Cardinals5

^^ Thanks, and welcome to the forum.


I'll have to PM one of the mods to update the original post since I have a fair number of new shell codes to add, but don't like bumping the thread for every new code.


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## mcarthur

Cardinals5 said:


> ^^ Thanks, and welcome to the forum.
> 
> I'll have to PM one of the mods to update the original post since I have a fair number of new shell codes to add, but don't like bumping the thread for every new code.


you have earned the right. consider up dates every two weeks


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## mikeh

Can anyone tell me what the number 92606 means for Florsheim Imperials? I know 9_3_606 mean shell, but what does the "2" mean for me? (They are PTBs)


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## Orgetorix

mikeh said:


> Can anyone tell me what the number 92606 means for Florsheim Imperials? I know 9_3_606 mean shell, but what does the "2" mean for me? (They are PTBs)


What are the details on the shoe? Color? Calf or shell?


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## mikeh

Orgetorix said:


> What are the details on the shoe? Color? Calf or shell?


 It's a burgundy PTB, and the calf/shell distinction is what I'm trying to figure out. It looks like shell to me, but I'm no expert. I'm not even an experienced amateur. I'll add a couple of pics momentarily.


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## Cardinals5

^^ The pic you posted at SF looks like shell. Are the numbers clear or slightly rubbed - i.e. might your 2 actually be a 3 that is hard to read? The other option, probably more likely, is they're a slightly earlier version of the 93606.

Here's MikeH's pic


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## mikeh

Thanks, I'm having trouble with my Photobucket account - it isn't giving me thumbnail code. I'm pretty sure it is a 2, it looks the same in both shoes, and is clear enough. If I can get on Photobucket from a full computer, I'll post the inside pic. Aha! Got it.


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## mikeh

Looks like we can add 92606 for Florsheim Imperial PTBs. I exchanged a series of emails with someone at Florsheim who concluded that the shoes were indeed Cordovan. He related it, as we had, to the more common 93606. Now if only I could wear 12 C!! Fortunately for me, I happened to run across a pair of Alden LHS in Cordovan that I can wear, even if they're slightly off (they're 11D, I'm 10.5E). At least I have some cordovan to wear on my feet, and in pretty nice shape too.


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## Cardinals5

*Here's an updated list of shell numbers. If Alan or another one of the mods will cut and paste it into the first post of this thread it would be greatly appreciated.*

*Allen Edmonds* - for many years AE used a split (dovetail) heel on all their shell models, but recently they've started using them on other models as well. AE also changed shell model numbers on a few different shoes, which I've indicated by a backslash. For a couple of years, AE also used whiskey and cognac shell, but these are exceptionally rare and were primarily for the MTO market.

Bedford: 4363 (#8)
Bradley: 2681 (#8); 2611 (black)
Broadmoor: 7743/6348 (#8)
Cambridge:8685 (#8); 8625 (Whiskey); 8605 (black)
Chukka: 8084 (#8)
Clifton: 3388 (#8)
Dundee: 3681S (#8)
Fairgate: 1381 (#8); 1311 (black); 1361 (Cognac)
Grayson: 8287 (#8); 8387 (black)
Hamilton: 5490 (#8)
Heather: 5868 (#8)
Hinsdale: 2884 (#8)
Imperial: 6748 (#8)
Kent: 6858 (#8) 
Leeds: 9548/9588/9581/9591 (#8); 9501 (black); 9651 (Cognac) 
MacNeil: 9097/9147/9187 (#8); 9177 (black); 9007 (Cognac)
Polo: 8284/8281
Randolph: 4889 (#8); 4899 (black)
Sanford: 5287/5297 (#8); 5227 (Whiskey)
Saratoga: 8783 (#8)
Scott: 7748 (#8) 
Slater: 9888 (#8)
Strand: 1645 (Brown) 
Walton: 2193 (Cognac)
Westchester: 1697 (#8)

*Barrie Ltd*
Shell shortwings: 

*Bostonian* - seem to have shell models in their regular and Crown Windsor lines
Shell longwings: 2351
Shell shortwings: 23608
Shell ptbs: 23319 (#8)
Shell tassels: 23628 (#8); 23321 (black)
Shell lhs: 0351617?
Shell saddles: 23120

*British Walkers*
Shell longwings: 

*Cole & Haag*
Shell longwings: (#8)

*Florsheim* - there are couple of popular Florsheim shell models (longwings and ptbs), but there have also been a number of other Florsheim shell shoes over the years. I have left off the model names as well as the relative "line" (Imperial, Royal Imperial) below since it's fairly easy to determine those things when looking at the shoes.

Shell ptbs: 93606/92606(rare) (#8); 92650/92621 (black)
Shell longwings: 93605/97626/78006 (#8); 29649 (black)
Shell tassels: 93231 (#8)
Shell venetian loafers: 78000 (#8)
Shell saddles: 97(?)324 (#8); ????? (black)
Shell lhs: 97164
Shell monk straps: 

*Foot-Joy*
Shell tassels: 75291, 75234
Shell longwings: 

*French Shriner (& Urner)*
Shell longwings: 8715?
Shell shortwings: 8061
Shell tassels:

*Hanover* - Hanover shells were issued in their regular, Imperial, and LB Sheppard lines.
Shell longwings: 2351 (#8)
Shell ptbs: 2168 (#8); ??? (black)
Shell saddles: 2100 (#8); 2106 (#8 and black)
Shell tassels: 2505 (#8); 3505 or 3606 (black)(I couldn't see the numbers clearly on the black shells)

*Johnston & Murphy* - Seem to have had shell models in the regular, Aristocraft, and Crown Aristocraft lines.
Shell beefroll: 24-9012
Shell lhs: 
Shell longwings: 24-5054
Shell saddles: 
Shell shortwings: 24-4949
Shell tassels: 58528

*Keith Highlander*
Shell shortwings: 3562V
Shell longwings: 3564V
Shell ptbs: 3570V

*Lloyd & Haig *
Shell shortwings:
Shell longwings: 

*London Walkers*
Shell chukkas: 921F (#8)

*Mason - Executive Imperial*
Shell ptbs: D300 0662B1 (#8)

*Nettleton* - I've only seen Nettleton shells in burgundy, but there may be models in black
Shell longwings: 28167
Shell lhs: 82161 
Shell U-tip: 60990 
Shell tassels: 24519 (#8)

*Ralph Lauren*
Shell chukka: 81510/46140
Shell lhs:1812817/46121 (dark brown)
Shell shortwings: 46122
Shell longwing: 1812819 (dark brown)
Shell tassel:1812818 (dark brown)
Shell ptb: 46120

*Stuart McGuire*
Shell longwings: 
Shell ptbs: OV-418 (#8)
Shell tassels OV-438 (#8)

*Worthmore (a Florsheim subsidiary)*
Shell longwings: 306 (#8)
Shell chukkas: 04221 (black)

*Wright*
Shell shortwings: 396


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## bretron

You know, you could make $$ off this list if you were more of a capitalist!!! Good Looking Out, my friend!


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## Cardinals5

Cole & Haag shell longwings: 0214 (#8)


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## GentlemanGeorge

Late model made in USA Florsheim Imperial PTB, black: 355465
(Must be from just before offshoring; it's the only 5-nail, v-cleat Florsheim I've seen with the modern logo on the insole--the outsole is the familiar one.)

Footjoy shell saddles, burgundy #8: 75291

Florsheim black shell venetian loafer (Yuma): 92010 (from a shoe with handwritten style info)

Dexter (Dexter Chevallier) #8 shell venetian loafer: either 3100 or 835712--the latter more likely

Florsheim Imperial #8 shell NST: 479899 (from a special order)

The Florsheim Shoe (!!!) #8 shell monk: 440079

Florsheim Imperial #8 shell penny/lhs: 303214


May have some more to contribute...


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## jbaron

Can anyone tell me whether the Allen Edmonds Chester was made in shell? If so, what color(s)? I realize that AE would make any current style in a different leather as a custom shoe, but was shell part of the regular line for Chester?


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## Cardinals5

I haven't updated this thread in a while. Not many new ones, but a few.


Allen Edmonds Kenwood: 44006
Florsheim shortwings: 3230X
J&M Aristocraft full strap pennies: 24-9012
J&M Aristocraft ptbs: 24-9312
Lloyds (by Hanover) full strap pennies: 7923
Nettleton saddles: 4062



Anyone have the model numbers for AE's Malvern or Dalton in shell?


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## M Go Crimson

These Nettleton LHS I got from GentlemanGeorge over in the thrift exchange say 226056C and 2668 and aren't any shade of burgundy I've seen before


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## n0rm

Mason Longwing


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## Oldsarge

For some reason I saw this thread and was thinking shotguns . . . :icon_headagainstwal


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## mikeh

n0rm said:


> Mason Longwing


Thanks n0rm, and welcome to AAAC. Outstanding way to make your first post a contribution.

Also, if anyone finds anything in Shell by Mason in my size, 10.5 E or 10 EEE (or even excellent condition calf, dare I say it in this thread), I'd love to have a chance to buy it. They were my grandfather's shoes of choice, and I wouldn't mind wearing some as a tribute to him.


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## catside

Barrie Ltd
shortwing 666
PTB 656

If anybody knows who made these let me know. These are the soles:


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## n0rm

mikeh said:


> Thanks n0rm, and welcome to AAAC. Outstanding way to make your first post a contribution.
> 
> Also, if anyone finds anything in Shell by Mason in my size, 10.5 E or 10 EEE (or even excellent condition calf, dare I say it in this thread), I'd love to have a chance to buy it. They were my grandfather's shoes of choice, and I wouldn't mind wearing some as a tribute to him.


Mike, thanks for the welcome! Been having a lot of luck with Masons lately, hopefully I'll find something for you.


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## Orgetorix

Catside, IIRC Hanover used that "Genuine Shell Cordovan" stamp on the sole.


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## catside

Orgetorix, It's the same script different location. My trouble is the hand, workmanship etc definitely not Hanover IMHO unless they ran a very special production. 
BTW Dalton is 0131 in walnut


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## eye40garn

I have a pair of AE Fairgate captoes in a distressed oxblood color. 1371 is printed below and a bit to the right of the size. Are these cordovan ?


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## n0rm

Barrie PTBs - 657


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## maximar

Did Walkover carry shell cordovan before?


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## The Deacon

*additional shell numerals*

AE Cole brown shell penny loafer (alden 986 clone!) #2461

Alden Cigar shell medallion tip oxford #9084 (Tassels of HK! and ebay:biggrin2

Freeman Bootmaker Guild burgundy shell Captoe blucher 4033 (Best made of my current shells)

USA made Bostonian Brown Shell Tassle custom make tassle loafer 29248 and Bostonian Black shell tassle loafer 29241 both have same very hard soles as later Bostonians.


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## mikeh

I found some Shell Cordovan shortwings, so I have numbers to add - but not maker! I can't find any markings inside the shoe other than these. They are fairly old, but I'm hoping that someone recognizes the printing. Anyone?


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## andrel42

A few additions from my personal collection:

AE McGraw: 9844 (Special Edition Cappuccino Cordovan)
C&J Harvard unlined loafer Whiskey Shell: 8365
Hanover burgundy shell LWBS: (3153) 2015
Florsheim Imperial Derby: 93606 (burgundy shell)


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## Sgpearl

: 3570V. ($139.99 BIN available now.)


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## Sgpearl

Alden for Brooks Brothers: 1354 9015. Not sure which is the model no. .
Alden shortwings: 9741. ()


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## copperback

More recent AE MacNeils with model number 9147 may not be shell cordovan. According to the old AE catalogues, from Fall 1990 to date, model 9147 is 'burgundy polished cobbler' or corrected grain leather. As Cardinals5 points out, in the 60s, 9147 was used for shell cordovan. 
Here's a screenshot from their 1998 catalogue.


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## Cardinals5

As I've discussed numerous times before, AE and several other shoemakers have used various model numbers for the same styled shoes over the years. The numbers in the shell hunters guide are just that - a guide - and the final determination should be made by looking at the available pictures carefully.

As the shell hunter's guide correctly states, AE has used 9147 for shell cordovan MacNeils in the past. On page 34 of the 1965 AE Catalog, the MacNeils in "Cordoba Shell Cordovan" are listed as model number 9147 (https://issuu.com/allenedmonds/docs/1965-catalog).


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## copperback

Cardinals5 said:


> As I've discussed numerous times before, AE and several other shoemakers have used various model numbers for the same styled shoes over the years. The numbers in the shell hunters guide are just that - a guide - and the final determination should be made by looking at the available pictures carefully.
> 
> As the shell hunter's guide correctly states, AE has used 9147 for shell cordovan MacNeils in the past. On page 34 of the 1965 AE Catalog, the MacNeils in "Cordoba Shell Cordovan" are listed as model number 9147 (https://issuu.com/allenedmonds/docs/1965-catalog).


Thanks for the clarification Cardinals5. Apologies if I came across as overly harsh in my earlier post, I'm very grateful and appreciative of your effort in curating this list.


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## andrel42

I have compiled a list from this thread and added some of my own acquisitions - Please feel free to correct or send more references!

Added some Alden as well from my personal collection:
Alden x Leffot Day Tripper Boot Ravello Shell
Alden x Leffot Saddle Shoe, Color 8/Alpine Grain
Alden x Leffot Tanker Boot, Color 8 Shell
954 Alden Monk Strap in Color 8 Shell
Alden x Leffot Black Longwing Blucher in Black Shell
Alden x Leffot Longwing Blucher in Color 8 Shell


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## Stolz

French Shriners tassels are apparently 57391. There is an ebay listing currently going.


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## Stolz

Nevermind.


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## iamsilvermember

This is very useful thanks.


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## kentyman

I've made an updated list of Allen Edmonds models here.


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## tocohillsguy

Johnston & Murphy Tassel Loafers - burgundy shell. The model number appears to be 24-1154.


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## trgolf

Hello - Is there a possibility that a pair of Florsheim Royal Imperial Longwings with a serial number of 97626 are not Shell?

Thoughts


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## Orgetorix

trgolf said:


> Hello - Is there a possibility that a pair of Florsheim Royal Imperial Longwings with a serial number of 97626 are not Shell?
> 
> Thoughts


Post pictures and we'll tell you.


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## meanoldmanning

tocohillsguy said:


> Johnston & Murphy Tassel Loafers - burgundy shell. The model number appears to be 24-1154.


Here is a picture I just pinched off an eBay listing where the model number is still legible. Looks to be 24-1159. The numbers in the pair I have are all but gone at this point


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## tocohillsguy

meanoldmanning said:


> Here is a picture I just pinched off an eBay listing where the model number is still legible. Looks to be 24-1159. The numbers in the pair I have are all but gone at this point


Mine are clearly 24-1154. What I'm uncertain of is whether I'm reading the model number.


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## meanoldmanning

tocohillsguy said:


> Mine are clearly 24-1154. What I'm uncertain of is whether I'm reading the model number.


I'm pretty sure the 24- number is the model number. I wonder what the dif is between yours and this one. And don't say 5.


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## meanoldmanning

tocohillsguy said:


> Mine are clearly 24-1154. What I'm uncertain of is whether I'm reading the model number.


I picked up another pair that I can actually read the model number, but barely and it also is marked 24-1159. But what I also noticed is yours have a tan counter liner and the two pair I have and the one in the picture I posted have dark brown counter lining. I wonder if that is superficial or maybe denotes what era they fit into in J&M history, or maybe if they have been through J&M's refurbishing program??? Both mine are Crown Aristocraft


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## tocohillsguy

meanoldmanning said:


> I picked up another pair that I can actually read the model number, but barely and it also is marked 24-1159. But what I also noticed is yours have a tan counter liner and the two pair I have and the one in the picture I posted have dark brown counter lining. I wonder if that is superficial or maybe denotes what era they fit into in J&M history, or maybe if they have been through J&M's refurbishing program??? Both mine are Crown Aristocraft


Not sure if mine are Aristocraft or Crown Aristocraft, but they appear to have the original soles and perhaps the original heels although I doubt it. The heels look different than others I've seen. If they're replacements, the cobbler did a nice job.


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## cc808113

Hello all,

need your help with decoding these Bostonian wing tips. Also, if anyone has any experience, how is the sizing on these compared to AE Macneils and other popular AE models?

Thank you in advance for any help.


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## Chris Vetti

I have 2 pair of Florsheim shoes that I have had for years and I love em. wondering how to find if they still make them, I am guessing not as I can't find any at the florsheim website. one pair is brown/burgundy with 33564 printed inside next to the size and width. the other pair is exactly the same looking but black and I can't read any numbers inside.


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## drlivingston

Chris Vetti said:


> I have 2 pair of Florsheim shoes that I have had for years and I love em. wondering how to find if they still make them, I am guessing not as I can't find any at the florsheim website. one pair is brown/burgundy with 33564 printed inside next to the size and width. the other pair is exactly the same looking but black and I can't read any numbers inside.


Greetings, Chris! Welcome aboard! This thread is typically reserved for people wanting to know information about shell cordovan shoes. I think that your post would get more attention if you started a new thread in this same forum.


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## cc808113

Hello everyone. Did Nettleton make #8 shell cordovan shortwing balmorals with model # 67381?

Thank you


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## drlivingston

cc808113 said:


> Hello everyone. Did Nettleton make #8 shell cordovan shortwing balmorals with model # 67381?
> 
> Thank you


Not to my knowledge. However, some more pics of the shoes would help with the identification.


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## cc808113

drlivingston said:


> Not to my knowledge. However, some more pics of the shoes would help with the identification.


Thank you for your response. Here are some more photos that I have.





































You can see larger images here:


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## tocohillsguy

Hard to say, but I vote yes. Looks like shell to me.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk


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## cc808113

tocohillsguy said:


> Hard to say, but I vote yes. Looks like shell to me.
> 
> Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk


Don't you think The punching on the medallion/the broguing kind of looks flat for a shell?


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## tocohillsguy

cc808113 said:


> Don't you think The punching on the medallion/the broguing kind of looks flat for a shell?


Not to me. When I zoom in on the linked picture the holes look right, particularly the small punch holes. Also, the puffiness on the top lace holes look right as does the grain on the vamp. The color also looks correct. Again, no guarantee, but I think they're shell and would be making a run at them if they were my size. Maybe others will chime in.

Sent from my GT-N8013 using Tapatalk


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## meanoldmanning

cc808113 said:


> Don't you think The punching on the medallion/the broguing kind of looks flat for a shell?


They don't appear to have been worn much, so probably wouldn't have developed much of that character yet.


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## cc808113

Do you know how Nettleton sizes are in comparison to AE, particularly AE’s 5, 1 or 7 last?


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## meanoldmanning

cc808113 said:


> Do you know how Nettleton sizes are in comparison to AE, particularly AE's 5, 1 or 7 last?


I've owned one pair and would say fit of that pair was similar to Florsheim Imperial of the era (late 70s, early 80s). Closest fit in that regard would be maybe AE 7? I'm guessing they were using more than one last for their different shoes though so your fit experience may vary.


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## cc808113

meanoldmanning said:


> I've owned one pair and would say fit of that pair was similar to Florsheim Imperial of the era (late 70s, early 80s). Closest fit in that regard would be maybe AE 7? I'm guessing they were using more than one last for their different shoes though so your fit experience may vary.


Thank you. I bought them, I hope they work out. The seller was responsive to my requests/questions up until I asked for some more pictures. So will see ...


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## drlivingston

cc808113 said:


> Thank you. I bought them, I hope they work out. The seller was responsive to my requests/questions up until I asked for some more pictures. So will see ...


I can not say whether or not they are shell. I will say that if they are, they will be a new entry into the Nettleton model numbers.


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## cc808113

drlivingston said:


> I can not say whether or not they are shell. I will say that if they are, they will be a new entry into the Nettleton model numbers.


I will keep you posted, once I receive them. In the meantime, I have something that you can add to the list.
AE Walton in, what looks like, their older brownish #8 with a model code of 2181. Here are some pics:


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## drlivingston

cc808113 said:


> I will keep you posted, once I receive them. In the meantime, I have something that you can add to the list.
> AE Walton in, what looks like, their older brownish #8 with a model code of 2181. Here are some pics:


Well, first of all, they are marked 2183 (not 2181). The problem is that I can't find an AE match for that number. The shell Waltons are supposed to be 2193. They do have the dovetailed heel that AE favors for their shell offerings. Odd...


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## cc808113

drlivingston said:


> Well, first of all, they are marked 2183 (not 2181). The problem is that I can't find an AE match for that number. The shell Waltons are supposed to be 2193. They do have the dovetailed heel that AE favors for their shell offerings. Odd...


The model number is a typo on my part. I contacted AE customer service, but they were unable to locate the code. Isn't 2193 for the cognac shell? Could this possibly be an MTO?


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## meanoldmanning

cc808113 said:


> The model number is a typo on my part. I contacted AE customer service, but they were unable to locate the code. Isn't 2193 for the cognac shell? Could this possibly be an MTO?


Could be, or one of the other brown colors they did a few years ago. Are you sure they are #8? They appear in the photo to be the same color as the cognac C&J Polo PTBs I posted in another thread a while back.


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## Barrister & Solicitor

meanoldmanning said:


> Could be, or one of the other brown colors they did a few years ago. Are you sure they are #8? They appear in the photo to be the same color as the cognac C&J Polo PTBs I posted in another thread a while back.


By the looks of the markings on the footbed, these shoes likely date back to sometime in the 1980s. That might explain the difference in numbered codes.


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## cc808113

meanoldmanning said:


> Could be, or one of the other brown colors they did a few years ago. Are you sure they are #8? They appear in the photo to be the same color as the cognac C&J Polo PTBs I posted in another thread a while back.


They are actually more brown than burgundy, but I definitely see some red coming through, depending on the light reflection. I kind of assumed that they are the older AE #8, as I read those are in brownish burgundy color.


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## cc808113

Received the Nettletons today that I was asking about earlier. They do appear to be shell; however, they will be going back as the leather is in really bad shape. It is dry in some areas, soft and spongy in some other, and there are surface cracks in few spots, already. I am not very impressed by the design either. The wing is just too big in my opinion.


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## oulipien

I recently picked up a pair of oxblood Mansfield shoes, which the seller claimed to be shell. Based on the creases I would guess they actually are not; still a decent deal but does raise the question: is there a list of model numbers for Mansfield that correspond to shell? I know they did make some shell shoes, but it's been slim pickings, for me, finding information online.


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## vegtan

eBay quick list here -- six pairs of shell cords not listed as shell cords. https://fityn.com/shell-cordovan-shoes-hiding-in-plain-sight-on-ebay/


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## kbuzz

Im thinking aobut taking a flyer on these Florsheims which are priced ok. 

however i think they look a bit "over waxed polished" from the two tones on the side and uniform color on the top pic. Are they worth a little elbow grease/renomat or are they a pass


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## kbuzz

another pic...


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## meanoldmanning

kbuzz said:


> Im thinking aobut taking a flyer on these Florsheims which are priced ok.
> 
> however i think they look a bit "over waxed polished" from the two tones on the side and uniform color on the top pic. Are they worth a little elbow grease/renomat or are they a pass


They look like somebody hit them with some sort of shine in a bottle. May clean up, but I'd personally pass. I've learned over time that it is common for folks to polish red and brown shades with black shoe polish, so that's not unexpected, bet these look like more trouble than they are worth, unless they are really cheap and you want a project.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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