# BB Black Fleece Online



## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

Its here!

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/blackfleece/default.tem?pagename=collection_men










(Fleece is right - $3500 for the coat - ouch! - and that doesnt take into account any doctor bills for the beatings you'll get dressing like that)


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

It comes with an odd new sizing chart too. I'm surprised that 38R is seen as "extra small".


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

I truly dont know how to react to this new Black Fleece line. It seems to illustrate a shift in mens clothing from menswear/tailoring into fashion. I'm no historian, but I would not believe that any time in BB's history they have put out a "fashion" line that their customers would not wear nor be expected to wear. Perhaps this is the Polo/RL model where they do not expect the average Joe to wear the outlandish fashion items, but the edgy designs may help sell the staple clothing - I dunno. 

Anyway, I guess what chaps my hiney is that Brooks SHOULD be a trustworthy store in that if you walk in the door with a pile of $$ but without any fashion sense and assemble a wardrobe, you should not look like a fool. A BB customer should not have to worry about being a "fashion victim".


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## jsherman02 (Oct 9, 2006)

Talk about high end.....


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

They have a pair of black scotch grain longwings for $700 made in USA - It would be interesting to know the source.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB_B...ss?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=652

Also here is the OCBD for $150 - strangely the sizes are SMLXL. Not sure what "side gussets" are though.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB_B...=1&Section_Id=624&product_id=1223970&CurSeq=1

The associated suit looks ok despite being too short (I'm not fat but I think I'd look like 'fat guy in a little coat' with this one). 3-button sack with GREAT shoulders - at least they know how the shoulders should look. This made me laugh: "Can be finished as seen or with a cuff and no break". (Suit nazi? Can I have a little break please? NO! NO SUIT FOR YOU!)


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Speas said:


> I guess what chaps my hiney is that Brooks SHOULD be a trustworthy store in that if you walk in the door with a pile of $$ but without any fashion sense and assemble a wardrobe, you should not look like a fool. A BB customer should not have to worry about being a "fashion victim".


I wonder if the sales staff really will steer men in the direction of capes, morning coats, knee socks, knickers, and the other seemingly archaic items in the Black Fleece collection. It seems like that would be a tough sell. I assume that that stuff is there simply for atmosphere and to convey the impression that very staid things can be re-interpreted as modern and fresh. "If he can make a morning coat look cool, imagine what he can do with a blazer."

Or something like that.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Speas said:


> Also here is the OCBD for $150 - strangely the sizes are SMLXL.


See the chart above. It appears that "S" means 15 1/2 x 34, for example. Exact sizing, just not very much of it.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Their descriptions are confusing. Do the suits have locker loops on the back?

DocD


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

I'd love to meet the man who requries a locker loop on his morning coat. A lot of guys meeting the Queen, then going directly to the squash court?

JB


Boiled wool tipped with white grosgrain. Full canvas contruction. Signature stripe lining and Genuine brass buttons. *Locker loop at bak of neck*. Made in Italy. Dry clean only.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

These seem to be uniforms for the Department of Silly Walks.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

It will be interesting to see if these end up on mega-clearance. Would be worth a look if so.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

I think the locker loop only works with a button down formal (pleats) shirt? Rather funny really. 

I liked the khakis pictured on the website. Sadly, $800 is a bit out of my price range for cotton twill pants.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Those are great for laughs, but what do members think about _these_ ensembles?

I think they look really good, like old photos from the 1960s.

DocD


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> Those are great for laughs, but what do members think about _these_ ensembles?
> 
> I think they look really good, like old photos from the 1960s.
> 
> DocD


All of those look great (if you make the sleeves and legs a bit, not a lot, longer).


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

For the well-dressed hitman?


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

the plain, conservative items look very nice, indeed, but at those prices, I would just go to Andover Shop and order MTM pieces and save lots of dough!

$800 for flannel pants?!?!?!?!


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Speas said:


> Its here!
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/blackfleece/default.tem?pagename=collection_men
> 
> ...


The shorts are funny, but how great are those ankle boots?

There is even better stuff in the "conservative" category--wait 'til you see the flannel and tweed suits.


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

This is nice looking, but a similar ensemble certainly could be purchased elsewhere at a fraction of the cost. Perhaps I'm missing the point, but much of this clothing seems just way too out there. I'm guessing that even those of us who are into (trad) clothes will not be purchasing this stuff -- much less your Average Joe in Anytown, USA. Seems like more of a promotional line, to get people into the stores. However, it may have the opposite effect in some Midwestern and suburban locales.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Doctor Damage said:


> Those are great for laughs, but what do members think about _these_ ensembles?


I think they make the model look like a teenager who has outgrown his clothes.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Ron_A said:


> This is nice looking, but a similar ensemble certainly could be purchased elsewhere at a fraction of the cost. Perhaps I'm missing the point, but much of this clothing seems just way too out there. I'm guessing that even those of us who are into (trad) clothes will not be purchasing this stuff -- much less your Average Joe in Anytown, USA. Seems like more of a promotional line, to get people into the stores. However, it may have the opposite effect in some Midwestern and suburban locales.


Perhaps they intend a two-tier company: one aimed at wealthy customers in selected cities, and one broader, more boring company for the punters in the 'burbs. If they can capture the "hip young overpaid urbanite" market, then bully for them. But it's probably mostly motivated by the marketing exposure and brand identity revival. TB's name will bring them in no matter what and I bet they'll sell a lot of the BBTBBF stuff.

Oh well, what do I care?
I shop at O'Connells only.

DocD


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

*Did your city make the list?*

Here's where this stuff is available. Certainly seems like market segmentation is at play. But don't they already do that with Golden Fleece?

346 Madison Ave at 44th Street
New York, NY

Liberty Plaza
One Liberty Plaza
New York, NY

Newbury Street
46 Newbury Street
Boston, MA

Post Street
150 Post Street
San Francisco, CA

Connecticut Avenue
1201 Connecticut Avenue N.W.
Washington, D.C.

Vernon Hills
696 White Plains Road
Scarsdale, NY

Saucon Valley
2985 Center Valley Parkway
Center Valley, PA

Skinner Building
1330 Fifth Avenue
Seattle, WA

West Village
3636 McKinney Ave
Dallas, TX

Lenox Square
Atlanta, GA

Chestnut Hill
199 Boylston Street
Chestnut Hill, MA

King of Prussia
422 Mall Blvd.
King of Prussia, PA

Short Hills
1200 Morris Turn
Short Hills, NJ

Tysons Corner
8009-U Tysons Corner Center
Mclean, VA

Chevy Chase
5504 Wisconsin Avenue
Chevy Chase, MD

Somerset Collection
TroyTroy, MI

Bal Harbour
9700 Collins Avenue
Bal Harbour, FL

Manhasset
2110a Northern Blvd.
Manhasset, NY

Cherry Creek
3000 East First Avenue
Denver, CO

Palm Beach Gardens
3101 PGA Blvd.
Palm Beach Gardens, FL

North Michigan Ave
713 North Michigan Avenue
Chicago, IL

Grove at Shrewsbury
The Grove at 543-Route 35
Shrewsbury, NJ

White Plains
125 Westchester Avenue
White Plains, NY

Westport - Men's
136 Main Street
Westport, CT

Shops At Riverside - Women's
150 Riverside Square
Hackensack, NJ

Country Club Plaza - Women's
439 West 47th Street
Kansas City, MO

Southampton
48-50 Main Street
Southampton, NY

Westport - Women's
125 Main Street
Westport, CT

Fifth Avenue - New York
666 Fifth Avenue at 53rd Street
New York, NY

reenwich Avenue
181 Greenwich Avenue
Greenwich, CT

Galleria - Women's
5135 W. Alabama, Suite 5270
Houston, TX

Rodeo Drive
468 N.Rodeo Drive
Beverly Hills, CA

Forum Shops at Caesars
3500 Las Vegas Blvd.South
Las Vegas, NV

Santana Row
333 Santana Row, Suite 1120
San Jose, CA

3333 Bristol St. Suite 2874
Costa Mesa, CA

Also, London, Paris, Milan, Tokyo, Hong Kong.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Ron_A said:


> This is nice looking, but a similar ensemble certainly could be purchased elsewhere at a fraction of the cost. Perhaps I'm missing the point, but much of this clothing seems just way too out there. I'm guessing that even those of us who are into (trad) clothes will not be purchasing this stuff -- much less your Average Joe in Anytown, USA. Seems like more of a promotional line, to get people into the stores. However, it may have the opposite effect in some Midwestern and suburban locales.


I like the look of the suit. I like the OCBD (could that be a 4" collar?). And I like the tie--a lot. Classic. Too bad this stuff is so expensive.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Speas said:


> They have a pair of black scotch grain longwings for $700 made in USA - It would be interesting to know the source.
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB_B...ss?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=652


The chukkas certainly look like Alden. If they're Goodyear welted and made in the USA there are only a couple of options.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Harris said:


> I like the look of the suit. I like the OCBD (could that be a 4" collar?). And I like the tie--a lot. Classic. Too bad this stuff is so expensive.


The fundamental flaw though is that the jacket is just WAY too short, requiring the shorter pants to keep everything in balance. No one over 5' 10" could wear this stuff without looking like Lurch from the Adams Family.

I predict that the bulk of this stuff will show up at massive discounts in 12-18 months. The problems will still be that it's WAY too short. All of it. I love the look of some of the overcoats ($3,900...are you kidding me?) but even at $750 on massive markdown, the coats are still too short.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> Those are great for laughs, but what do members think about _these_ ensembles?
> 
> I think they look really good, like old photos from the 1960s.
> 
> DocD


I like the individual items, especially the ties, but the cuffs are way too wide and the coats way too small and _too short. _Didn't Untilted show us some similarly exaggerated fashion shots from Polo a few months ago?

Although I'm not anyone's target market for these products, all this fiddling around with correct fit and finish is beginning to bore me.


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

bd79cc said:


> I like the individual items, especially the ties, but the cuffs are way too wide and the coats way too small and _too short. _Didn't Untilted show us some similarly exaggerated fashion shots from Polo a few months ago?
> 
> Although I'm not anyone's target market for these products, all this fiddling around with correct fit and finish is beginning to bore me.


Exactly.

I might be able to deal with the cuffs, but I simply can't get past the jackets being WAY too short. Other than that, a couple of the jackets/suits looked OK.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Taliesin said:


> Here's where this stuff is available. Certainly seems like market segmentation is at play. But don't they already do that with Golden Fleece?


These are mostly the big, high-volume stores. BB doesn't send GF merchandise or other high-end stuff to the smaller stores that don't do as much business. They can get things transferred from larger stores, though.


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## philm (Jun 17, 2007)

Doctor Damage said:


> Those are great for laughs, but what do members think about _these_ ensembles?
> 
> I think they look really good, like old photos from the 1960s.
> 
> DocD


I just reviewed the entire line on BB online, and was aghast. Not my concept of traditional dress. Maybe I've got to go back in time several eras to learn appreciation for this "stuff." I'll continue to purchase the BB trad of our era. Just where in the USA would you wear anything in that line? Or abroad for that matter? Is this for youngsters and adults both since the model is a kid? I am interested in how BB ever got to the point to concoct this line.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Has anyone bothered to point out (except perhaps Brownshoe in a previous thread) that this is the first new serious line of clothing that features 3 button sack suits? Many of those conservative black fleece jackets do not have darts, roll nicely above the second button, and have somewhat respectable shoulders. 

Many have complained about the jackets and pants being too short, but I'm sure the trousers will be unfinished, and why not buy up a size in the jacket and perhaps have the sleeves altered?

Say what you will, but this is a sea change. Some of the items are silly as hell, but a top of the line designer employing the sack suit as a base of his new line? Isn't that what we've wanted?

JB


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

Joe Tradly said:


> Has anyone bothered to point out (except perhaps Brownshoe in a previous thread) that this is the first new serious line of clothing that features 3 button sack suits? Many of those conservative black fleece jackets do not have darts, roll nicely above the second button, and have somewhat respectable shoulders.
> 
> Many have complained about the jackets and pants being too short, but I'm sure the trousers will be unfinished, and why not buy up a size in the jacket and perhaps have the sleeves altered?
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with you Joe. Everything looks good and changes what we all have been complaining about. However, unless I win the Mega Millions, no black fleece for me.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

It appears a raglan shouldered Mackintosh--("Mackintosh outer shell")--is part of the Black Fleece line. Looks good. Still, $3,500.

Did my eyes deceive or is J. Press also offering a raglan Mackintosh raincoat this fall?


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

I love it all. I especially like the morning coats and other unique items. If you don't like the fit, just size up and have the pants hemmed longer - really not an issue.


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

Hell, I'm gonna buy a bunch of these outfits and have the pants hemmed a whole heckuva lot shorter.

I mean, especially that sharp-looking shorts with morning-coat outfit. I think that outfit is terrific, except the shorts are way too long for my taste. I think it should be more like a hot pants look.

(Hah!!!)


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

So, any ideas as to how much LSD was involved in the making of this line?


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

I agree with ChicagoTrad. The length of the jackets is a real turnoff.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Joe Tradly said:


> Has anyone bothered to point out (except perhaps Brownshoe in a previous thread) that this is the first new serious line of clothing that features 3 button sack suits? Many of those conservative black fleece jackets do not have darts, roll nicely above the second button, and have somewhat respectable shoulders.
> 
> Many have complained about the jackets and pants being too short, but I'm sure the trousers will be unfinished, and *why not buy up a size in the jacket and perhaps have the sleeves altered*?
> 
> ...


Because then it won't fit you in the shoulders and chest. Have you seen the sizing on these monstrosities? It's basically a S/M/L/XL sizing by another name. These are made to fit too short. It's the whole concept. If you buy one of these jackets that fits you in the chest and shoulders it will be too short for you.

I think there is some merit to what you say, but only in the sense that these are like concept cars. Their primary value is not that they are meant for mass consumption, but that they will have influence on what others do. If that influence is to reintroduce the sack suit (not my cup of tea, but I understand the sentiment), or the morning coat or the chesterfield, then fine . If it's to influence all men's tailored clothing to be cut too short, then it is from the devil and it's influence should be abhorred by all right thinking people.

EDIT:
For example: I wear a 43L normally. OK, reviewing the BL sizing equivalency chart I see that I fit between a BB3 (42) and a BB4 (44). History tells me that I am closer to a 44 than a 42, so I select that as my basic size. However, under your theory I size up one to make the coat long enough and I'm suddenly at a BB5 which is basically a 46 jacket. This will look like daddy's clothes rather than little brother's clothes. Neither really work for me. My choice is between a jacket that looks silly because the shoulders are too big or one that looks silly because the skirt is too short. And for this I pay how much???


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

You know clothing isn't serious when they don't make it a suit in a size larger than a 46. My experience is that proper clothing is available for proper fat cats. I happily say that they don't make black fleece in my size (or what they would consider my size even).


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

If you like the Thom Browne aesthetic as realized through Black Fleece, then it would take very little work to replicate it via MTM through practically anybody--including Brooks itself, probably--for less money with equal quality. My understanding is that the Browne stuff is very well made, but his markups are unreal. I don't know if anyone saw the Thom Browne label longwings that were clearly Tricker's shown at SF. They retail for $1200, but Tricker's only run about 1/3-1/4 that. Or you could grab some longwings deadstock on ebay or from J Press. 

Now, some of his accessories are pretty nice, and I'd love to have them. I don't live in any reality where that will ever happen, of course.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

I think the XXS will fit me well. I'm very short, so the jackets wouldnt look that ridiculous. I will most likely get my hands on one of those 2 1/4 inch ties on sale. But nothing else, unless Blackstone hires me out of undergrad.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Joe Tradly said:


> Has anyone bothered to point out (except perhaps Brownshoe in a previous thread) that this is the first new serious line of clothing that features 3 button sack suits? Many of those conservative black fleece jackets do not have darts, roll nicely above the second button, and have somewhat respectable shoulders.
> 
> Many have complained about the jackets and pants being too short, but I'm sure the trousers will be unfinished, and why not buy up a size in the jacket and perhaps have the sleeves altered?
> 
> ...


Only if it quickly translates into what we really want: a profusion of affordable good-quality sack jackets, plain-front trousers, OCBDs, and 3" wide rep ties for the masses - _i.e.,_ us.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Mark from Plano said:


> Because then it won't fit you in the shoulders and chest. Have you seen the sizing on these monstrosities? It's basically a S/M/L/XL sizing by another name. These are made to fit too short. It's the whole concept. If you buy one of these jackets that fits you in the chest and shoulders it will be too short for you.
> 
> I think there is some merit to what you say, but only in the sense that these are like concept cars. Their primary value is not that they are meant for mass consumption, but that they will have influence on what others do. If that influence is to reintroduce the sack suit (not my cup of tea, but I understand the sentiment), or the morning coat or the chesterfield, then fine . If it's to influence all men's tailored clothing to be cut too short, then it is from the devil and it's influence should be abhorred by all right thinking people.
> 
> ...


Mark, I hear you 100%. The sizing is truely wacky. I guess it was wishful thinking about the jackets.

JB


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

Joe Tradly said:


> Mark, I hear you 100%. The sizing is truely wacky. I guess it was wishful thinking about the jackets.
> 
> JB


Sorry if my post came off like a rant against you. It wasn't. More of a rant against the tease that BB is putting out there. There is some good stuff buried under a pile of horsesh** here. If they produced a lot of this without the gimmicky crap associated with it I'd be all for it. And frankly if that's where this eventually heads then I think it's great. Hopefully it will.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Would you order a $3000 suit over the internet? Seems a bit odd.

Danny


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

2 1/4" ties? I suppose it's wishful thinking to hope that a misprint is involved--that it should read 3 1/4".


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## philm (Jun 17, 2007)

marlinspike said:


> So, any ideas as to how much LSD was involved in the making of this line?


+1:icon_smile_big:


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

I was really excited for this line but am sorely disappointed. They have to be kidding with the prices, 800$ pants, 2800 sweaters, I think its a real F U to those loyal to brooks throughout the years. I can only assume that its a ploy to get people in stores and that they only made a dozen of each of those pieces.

Whats the point in carrying the TB aesthetic to BB when original TB is the same gd price!!!

MrR


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

I love the flood pants with the 2" cuffs. This is right out of one of the drawings in the OPH. I'm going to cuff a pair if khakis like this and see how they wear. Better than spending $600 for a pair of TB trousers.

The fit on the all the coats is, of course, ridiculous. Maybe it will grow on us.


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## Desk Jockey (Aug 19, 2005)

Wow... it just looks dumb. I can think of no simple way to say it but that it looks dumb. Sure a couple of the pieces are vaguely interesting but I just can't wrap my head around the thoughts that went through the heads of the corporate office. I've met some of these folks and they didn't to me seem as though they were smoking crack.

My prediction: it'll sell in New York and Los Angeles and not nearly enough to justify the hype (which will be extreme). The Brethren are going to lose of a small fortune in this endeavor and as an extra added bonus look a fool to the "silent majority" of customers. The paltry few hipsters lured in by these wares will, I think, balk at the prices and depart shortly after the experiment fails without building a appreciation of any real Brooks merchandise.

Boy is that sad, actual sacks buried in heaps of ridiculous "fashion." This can not the Jockey abide.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

I keep coming back to this. It's like a really bad train wreck, I don't want to look, yet I look. I feel like a letter should be written or something. It's enough to make me want to stop buying their stuff if it weren't for that every season there are one or two things I like. I find it humorous that there will be a Thom Browne "appearance" at the Chevy Chase store. Oh yeah, that'll go over big...somehow I don't think the over 60 crowd who has been mumbling to themselves every since non-US made products were on BB shelves will be too interested (and nor would I for that matter, but still, you'd think they'd research their market).


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Silly, goofy designs
Ridiculously expensive
Impractical for most people
I hope this is a "flavor-of-the-month" thing for BB...but I hope it works if only to draw people to the core products

-1


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## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

Finally, Bleecker fit at Purple Label prices!


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

TMMKC said:


> Silly, goofy designs
> Ridiculously expensive
> Impractical for most people
> I hope this is a "flavor-of-the-month" thing for BB...but I hope it works if only to draw people to the core products
> ...


I hope there are enough idiots buying them to line the BB pockets so that the prices of the normal stuff can get back to where they should be given the quality of the product.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

I really think the majority of this stuff will hit the outlets, especially in certain areas. The BB in King of Prussia, PA will never sell this stuff. Maybe at 75% off I'll be able to grab a few pieces.

MrR


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

I still think the line looks great. Those photos are very "fashiony"...you don't have to wear the looks that way if you don't want to.

I fit almost perfectly into the BB4 size, which really surprised me. Just lucky, I guess (?). Sleeves were a bit short, but that's my preference. The body length was briefer than the standard contempory suit coat, but not freakishly so, and that detail added greatly to its retro appeal. A "fitted" fit, but easy-looking and more comfortable than most of my jackets. 

I think this stuff has a shot at hitting with with cool young tastemekers--in its minimalism, classicism, and undeniable edge, it has the seductive, almost onieric appeal of the wardrobe in retrofitted futuristic movies like Dark City and Gattaca. 

It's a romantic, almost fetishized take on trad/Ivy, and I think it's a knockout.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

i'm pretty excited to try this stuff on in person, and take pictures of myself in the dressing room for review purposes.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Markus said:


> Hell, I'm gonna buy a bunch of these outfits and have the pants hemmed a whole heckuva lot shorter.
> 
> I mean, especially that sharp-looking shorts with morning-coat outfit. I think that outfit is terrific, except the shorts are way too long for my taste. I think it should be more like a hot pants look.
> 
> (Hah!!!)


You will be easy to spot in St. Louis if you do. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Here's a cape for only $10,000. 
Nice clothes, but they make CCC seem inexpensive.


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## FzyLgic (Jun 17, 2004)

Brownshoe said:


> I still think the line looks great. Those photos are very "fashiony"...you don't have to wear the looks that way if you don't want to.
> 
> ...
> 
> It's a romantic, almost fetishized take on trad/Ivy, and I think it's a knockout.


How else can you wear it? The proportions are entirely freaky, and nowhere nearly as balanced and pleasing as the 1950's originals. And the look is hardly romantic or fresh. You did get one thing right, it is a fetish driven look - that of a Byronesque boarding school of the mid 19th century. 
It will be a very brief fad which will be heavily discounted come January and will all but disappear to jobbers when it doesn't sell in the outlets either. 
Truly appalling.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

FzyLgic said:


> How else can you wear it? The proportions are entirely freaky, and nowhere nearly as balanced and pleasing as the 1950's originals. And the look is hardly romantic or fresh. You did get one thing right, it is a fetish driven look - that of a Byronesque boarding school of the mid 19th century.
> It will be a very brief fad *which will be heavily discounted* come January and will all but disappear to jobbers when it doesn't sell in the outlets either.
> Truly appalling.


-keeping fingers crossed


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## Daniele (Dec 28, 2004)

I like the more conservative items (capes and knickers are kinda gimmicks methink..); I like the proportions too, very Ivy League-mixed with Roman-mixed with late 50s Mod: all in all I've been wearing short jackets and narrow trousers since I was 17 (wearing the same style right now, with a short boxy seersucker sack, slim gabardine trousers that don't break on the shoes, narrow knitted tie and slim-fit oxford buttondown). Now I think that, instead of drawing sketches for my tailor, I shuld have done it on a more professional basis, maybe in NYC; I could be millionaire like Mr Browne by now...;-)

Since I can't open the link for some reason, I'll have a look in person at their Milan shop. I do hope that they'll put those otherwise steep suits on sales the next January..


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

Brownshoe said:


> I think this stuff has a shot at hitting with with cool young tastemekers--in its minimalism, classicism, and undeniable edge, it has the seductive, almost onieric appeal of the wardrobe in retrofitted futuristic movies like Dark City and Gattaca.
> 
> It's a romantic, almost fetishized take on trad/Ivy, and I think it's a knockout.


Here, here. I still can't afford it, but a guy can dream (or copy the look with more affordable options)...

TT:teacha:


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## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

TradTeacher said:


> Here, here. I still can't afford it, but a guy can dream (or copy the look with more affordable options)...


A small fraction the cost of Black Fleece with something resembling the sizing found in tailored clothing.

Also, the Polo Bleecker fit is the same shrunken proportions.


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## willfine (Apr 22, 2007)

I'd be interested in knowing the age of those of you who like this collection and where you would wear these items. 

It would be interesting to see if anyone over 40 would buy anything and if they thought much of the collection could be worn to a business meeting. 

I was under the impression that this was BB's market niche and I tend to think this is all a publicity stunt.


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## Daniele (Dec 28, 2004)

willfine said:


> I'd be interested in knowing the age of those of you who like this collection and where you would wear these items.
> 
> It would be interesting to see if anyone over 40 would buy anything and if they thought much of the collection could be worn to a business meeting.


Hi, I'm 43 (I'm the guy in my avatar), 1,77 m. tall, my weight is 67 kg, and yes, I would wear the most conservative suits for business (I work as an equity fund manager in Milan) as well as for nightclubbing, going out to dinner to a fancy restaurant, dating a girl... Basicly everywhere would make sense wearing a suit. Moreover, as I wrote above, I've been wearing very similar styles for ages. It's not a 'new thing' for me..


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

willfine said:


> I'd be interested in knowing the age of those of you who like this collection and where you would wear these items.


You couldn't wear this to a business meeting? I wear the exact outfit once a week, suit, tie, shirt and shoes. Even the sleeves here don't seem too ridiculous, but of course, I'd like them a tad longer. Jacket is unreasonably short, I'll give you that. But if you're luck in two ways--you can afford it, and the clothes fit you--then there are wonderful selections here. This outfit, other than it's idiosyncrasies, resides at the foundation of Trad at the Office.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

I'm almost 30 and I'd wear this stuff just about anywhere. It's a version of updated classics. It's all of the "Remember when..." items that have been discussed around here but with a modern twist. Does it constitute "fashion" ? Maybe. But, at its core, the items are classic BB. We should be so lucky that anyone is trying do something like this...

TT:teacha:


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

I have ambiguous feelings about the Thom Browne look. As Brownshoe said above, I love the spirit of the design. Over on the Fashion Forum, someone linked to a Boston Globe article in which TB says he was inspired by the 50's Americana look. I like that idea.

The jackets remind me a bit of a couple of old sport coats that I borrowed from my Dad's closet while I was in college. As Daniele mentions, jackets were shorter in the body then. The lapels were thin and the shoulders were natural (I think it is a little strange that some of TB's shoulders appear to be roped). All of these minimalist style elements I really like. 

But, the total picture of Black Fleece is just a little too much. The body of the jacket looks so short that it almost looks like a joke. They almost look good on TB himself, but I think I would look like I stole a little boy's jacket. I love the khakis (other than the $800 price tag).

I agree with the other posters that it would be great if this energized other designers to feature more trad clothing.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Joe Tradly said:


> You couldn't wear this to a business meeting? I wear the exact outfit once a week, suit, tie, shirt and shoes. Even the sleeves here don't seem too ridiculous, but of course, I'd like them a tad longer. Jacket is unreasonably short, I'll give you that. But if you're luck in two ways--you can afford it, and the clothes fit you--then there are wonderful selections here. This outfit, other than it's idiosyncrasies, resides at the foundation of Trad at the Office.


If 2 inches were added to the body of that jacket, it would be pure trad heaven. I love the big collar ocbd, the natural shoulder, the thin lapel, the lack of break, the big long wings. Everything is great, except the body (and the price).


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Some of this stuff looks dumb; the rest of it, ridiculous. These clothes have no relevance to me or the image I wish to project. I wish I had never seen this stuff, because my already diminishing attitude toward Brooks Brothers has eroded even further.

Scott


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

Tom Buchanan said:


> If 2 inches were added to the body of that jacket, it would be pure trad heaven. I love the big collar ocbd, the natural shoulder, the thin lapel, the lack of break, the big long wings. Everything is great, except the body (and the price).


I'm with you Tom. I like the idea of the shorter jacket, but that short really pushes it a little too far in the "fashion" direction for my comfort. The sizing thing is really awkward as well. But Brooks really is now a fashion store, however conservative, and seemingly has been. It's a different ethos. This line is approximating the look through the lens of fashion, not reinstating old staples. I think the best hope is that the Browne approximation of the look filters down into the non BF lines and 3-2 roll becomes a common option like the high-buttoning euro choice that is readily available.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

JDDY said:


> But Brooks really is now a fashion store, however conservative, and seemingly has been. It's a different ethos. This line is approximating the look through the lens of fashion, not reinstating old staples.


Well said. And this is where this "regular guy" gets off the bus.

Scott


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

If I were whip-thin and a rockstar, I'd buy the entire lot. Alas, I am in no immediate danger of removing those two contingencies.


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## zignatius (Oct 8, 2004)

yawn.

By tag-teaming with a fashion designer, Brooks Brothers gets a shot in the arm. It's the job of a designer to push hard, swing for the fences. Some silly get-ups, sure. But bold and pricey are important if only to add cred to the designer. To me, part of the message is that the apparel industry is too competitive for Brooks Brothers to sit back and be a wall flower. However the marketing direction/statement gets interpreted by the channel, I think it lets the world know that Brooks Brothers is, in fact, relevant to men and women under thirty. Here's to another century of Brooks Brothers...

I <heart> the aggressively deep cuffs.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

The cuffs are getting out of hands.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

I don't know why I'm even going to bother defend this, given the inherent negative biases towards this that will never be changed no matter what anyone says.

It is a well known and documented fact that the TB stuff is cut very slim/short for the models. In real life, you can have the pants and sleeves hemmed to any length (duh), and you can order the correct jacket size (read: longer and less tight), rather than the size or two smaller that the models wear. If you buy the correct size (or even size up), THE CLOTHES WILL NOT BE TINY! Slim, perhaps, but not tiny. This is a very simple concept that people just can't seem to wrap their minds around.

Secondly, yes, the mark ups are high. I know this forum has an inherent cheapness, but nice things do cost money. The TB stuff is made to a higher standard than even the GF line, and I assume when put on a 25% sale, many of the items will represent a decent value (not all items, but certainly some). Honestly, is 3k for a nice overcoat or suit really that crazy? A lot of other high end makers have far more expensive suits. Assuming it fits well, I'd buy it if I weren't a college student on a budget. I bet if you adjust for inflation, these suits would be a pretty standard price for a nice suit 100 years ago.

Finally, yes, things like the capes are a bit silly. Frankly, I kind of like a designer putting out a few pieces like this, if only for visual interest at the stores. I don;t see people going crazy over the fact that Brooks sells morning coats and white tie ensembles, and those are worn just about as infrequently as a cape would be. I think you all are going nuts about 5 strange pieces, when the rest are actually quite wearable when sized correctly.

I look forward to supporting this venture with my wallet, and I hope that it continues in a similar manner for many years. I also think it will be very successful. If you don;t like it, fine, but at least take the time to properly understand that many of the criticisms being thrown around here are due to misunderstandings.

I also just _have_ to get a pair of black wingtips after seeing those pictures.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

Untilted said:


> The cuffs are getting out of hands.


What are they, 2 inches, maybe 2.5? I like em a lot, but again, you can always have them cuffed at a more standard height.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

abc123 said:


> Honestly, is 3k for a nice overcoat or suit really that crazy?


It is when the sizing is XS, S, M, L, XL. You can have a good custom suit made by a well known tailor for less than that, and no matter how good your alterations tailor is, only so much can be done with the S M L sizing system. Even if you like the cut and design, you're getting ripped off.


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## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

abc123 said:


> It is a well known and documented fact that the TB stuff is cut very slim/short for the models. In real life, you can have the pants and sleeves hemmed to any length (duh), and you can order the correct jacket size (read: longer and less tight), rather than the size or two smaller that the models wear. If you buy the correct size (or even size up), THE CLOTHES WILL NOT BE TINY! Slim, perhaps, but not tiny. This is a very simple concept that people just can't seem to wrap their minds around.


Actually the sizing will prevent the majority of men from having the fit they are accustomed to having in Black Fleece. I believe this was done to keep the cost for the extremely limited runs down. There might only be a handful of many of these pieces ever produced so why make 38-50 Short, Regular and Long if only 6 will ever sell. I recall that Brooks has publicly stated that this line will only bring in about 1% of their revenue making this essentially an ad campaign and not much different that anyone else's high fashion offerings. The difference is that others are already well ahead of these fashions.


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## udeshi (Sep 29, 2005)

My two pence, or cents. I normally don't post on the trad forum, so excuse me if I break any unwritten codes of etiquette. Being in the industry, I was looking forward to see how BB would handle this, and how they would get the look across, price it, package it etc.

Walked in to BB Regent St London, asked when the Black Fleece collection was coming in, and the sales associate said you mean gold fleece, no I said black. Sorry don't know what that is.

Walked in to BB Madison in May, saw a jacket I wanted, asked for a 38R, and was told, sorry, we only start this style in size 42.

So after these two incidents, I didn't have terribly high hopes. If the suits were fused, or semi canvas, or full canvas is irrelevant I feel. People are buying it for the look and the name. If the suits were priced at $799, shirts at $125, ties at $75, and he did some interesting gloves, scarves, old school boxers, shoes same price as the rest of BB collection, but a slightly different last and some neat packaging, they would have had a winner.
The jackets should be about 1' longer, so still short, but not short short, and they would have a queue of people outside.

The fact that most of the collection is made in Italy I think, and we are after traditional BB values and a new interpretation of the BB aesthetic, and with their pricing, somebody has seriously lost track of the ball. 

If one is spending so much on a BB TB suit, spend a little more and get it from the source directly. 

Does Brooks Brothers really care about all this - yes, but not if it sells, but the fact that we are speaking about it. Imagine how much they would have to spend to get men talking about Brooks Brothers again. Paying someone to copy his own line, make a 100 samples, fashion show, small advertising and a small website, less than a million dollars. The amount of money they would have to spend for the publicity generated, purely on an advertising basis in magazines, billboards, probably more.

Yes, cgc is right, it is an ad campaign. We are talking about it, so mission accomplished.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

udeshi, beautifully said.


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## ASF (Mar 6, 2006)

Taliesin said:


> I wonder if the sales staff really will steer men in the direction of capes, morning coats, knee socks, knickers, and the other seemingly archaic items in the Black Fleece collection. It seems like that would be a tough sell. I assume that that stuff is there simply for atmosphere and to convey the impression that very staid things can be re-interpreted as modern and fresh. "If he can make a morning coat look cool, imagine what he can do with a blazer."
> 
> Or something like that.


Taliesin,

My comments are not directed toward you, you just happened to bring up an amusing point. I don't hear many BB fans on the forum using the term archaic especially with negative flavoring. Many folks consider anything remotely trad archaic.

ASF


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## Daniele (Dec 28, 2004)

Had a glance at the real things at BB's Milanese premise. Jackets and overcoats were still partially packed, waiting to be displayed (probably tomorrow). Among few items unwrapped, a tweed herringbone black/white suit. Unpadded shoulder, really slim lapels, dartless, 2 spaced buttons on the cuffs: The Look! Fabric has nice 'hand' and decent weight. 
On the other side, if this could be of some confort for the American fiends, the price tag are the same as in the US; same numbers I mean, but in Euro!!! (the suit I was watching at e.g. was 2.600 Euro. Almost 50% more than what an excellent Neapolitan tailor could ask for a fully handmade bespoke suit...a bit embarassing, keeping into account that the collection has been made in Italy. Probably the 'black sheeps' crossed The Pond twice in businees class...


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Daniele said:


> ...a bit embarassing, keeping into account that the collection has been made in Italy. Probably the 'black sheeps' crossed The Pond twice in businees class...


That's pretty funny. :biggrin2:


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## mack11211 (Oct 14, 2004)

udeshi said:


> If one is spending so much on a BB TB suit, spend a little more and get it from the source directly.


Black Fleece and mainline Thom Browne have different cuts in suit jackets. The shrunken proportions are more or less the same, but BF's house style has sleeves and pant legs a little longer, lapels a little wider and, more importantly, BF is a sack -- natural shoulder, no waist suppression, 3/2 front. Mainline TB is not.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

I had a funny exeprience yesterday when I went into BB to buy a new polo shirt. The older, semi-retired gentleman who (I think) works there part time helped me...as he has several times before. We were simply making small talk when I mentioned the Black Fleece line to him and made some snarky comment (in jest) about how wild the designs are and how overpriced it is. His eyes got big, he rolled them and shook his head. I think the first thing that came out of his mouth was "Well...if you've got the money and you're brave enough."


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

I haven't read every single post here, so please forgive any redundancy. These are awesome garments that lose appeal when the models are fitted so poorly. I moaned about this in a previous thread that I had started, and it didn't draw much interest. Fit the guys properly, and us BB fans will attend alot more. A good shampoo wouldn't hurt. Bill


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

I stopped by my local BB to see the fall lineup. None of the TB stuff was in yet, but the salesman told me that they would have TB himself there for a trunk show in the near future - the dates are online. (He was also kind enough to point out that none of the TB line would fit me but that I might like to see it anyway). Interestingly he said that Black Fleece would continue on without TB in the near future, but not sure how much he really knew. He also pointed out that the women's TB line was probably more important to BB than the men's. Seems that might be true.

A positive sidenote, they had restocked the University Blazers. If you missed these the first time around, you might want to check it out - perfect for the colder months. They also had a full rack of sack camelhair jackets and the cord sacks and a brown tones patch fair island shetland sweater. I specifically looked for the fair island vest, but didnt see it.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

mmmm, interesting, speas. A full rack of sack camelhair. Are you sure they are not old stock?


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

Untilted said:


> mmmm, interesting, speas. A full rack of sack camelhair. Are you sure they are not old stock?


they're online too.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ection_Id=217&Product_Id=917750&Parent_Id=202


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Rich ol' aunt Isobel is arriving for a visit and June, excitedly distracted before popping a couple o' Valium, has mistakenly dressed a reluctant Wally in some of Beaver's stuff and, spittle assisted, combed his hair. 

Ward and the Beav have taken the Desoto to the station.


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## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

Speas said:


> Interestingly he said that Black Fleece would continue on without TB in the near future, but not sure how much he really knew.


Maybe, Tom Ford is up next!


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Yes, the Black Fleece line is slated to continue with a different design each season (or however often they plan to introduce new clothes to the line). I was speaking with a friend who went to fashion design school and who is fashion forward and he said basically that it will do well in NYC and LA, but not sell anywhere else (I should add he liked some of the stuff, and he still agreed most BB customers won't like it).


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

_I posted the below photos in September of 2006 in an earlier Thom Browne thread on the Fashion Forum. I think it's relevant here, now that the BBTB/BF stuff has been revealed._

-----

Who knows what he's thinking, and this might not prove anything, but the following photos provide an interesting comparison.
The first is of the man himself (photographed by The Sartorialist), the second and third are old photos from 1965...anyone remember TWA?

DocD


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

jamgood said:


> Rich ol' aunt Isobel is arriving for a visit and June, excitedly distracted before popping a couple o' Valium, has mistakenly dressed a reluctant Wally in some of Beaver's stuff and, spittle assisted, combed his hair.
> 
> Ward and the Beav have taken the Desoto to the station.


Too funny! Eddie would definitely have something to say about June's sartorial gaffe. Bill :devil:


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## Daniele (Dec 28, 2004)

A couple of days ago I popped into local BB and tried on some BF jackets. Definitely they're not so dramatically short as they look on the models. I tried a BB 1 size and it was longer than the jacket I was wearing (the salesperson actually asked me if I was wearing a TB suit by any chance - I could have shot him) BF jacket's sleeves were even too long, needing to be shortened of half inch at least. The garment seemed properly made and sewn.
Some coats have hooked vent and the two spaced buttons on the sleeve's cuff.
Most bizarre detail, the belt loop on the back of the collar!!! What the hell...???A poorly trained salesman tried to explain it was a 'Traditional American characteristic', I made an effort not to laugh...


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Daniele said:


> Most bizarre detail, the belt loop on the back of the collar!!! What the hell...???A poorly trained salesman tried to explain it was a 'Traditional American characteristic', I made an effort not to laugh...


Dear Gods, it's true! I had thought that detail was on the women's jackets only.

DocD


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## Daniele (Dec 28, 2004)

DocD,
I too was told it should have been only on women's jackets.. Bizarre indeed.
Btw, interesting pics as usual, like the suit on right photo.
Regards,
D.

PS) other 'remarkable comments' heard by BB's salespeople:

1) "Yes, the central vent is TIPICALLY English, ALL this collection takes inspiration from English style"

2) "And yes, that slightly asymmetrical vent ("hooked" you called it, Sir?) is another EXTREMELY TYPICAL BRITISH detail.."

3) " Fabrics are vintage, have been found in Brooks Brothers' warehouse (???)"

4) "Don't worry if the jacket looks a bit like a sack, (sic!) we can have it taken in, in order to get a better fit" (saying so, the guy pinches the coat on the back making it looking really silly).

Sad..


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

*thought id post this here as it received no interest in the main forum*

Last weekend I had a chance to see the entire black fleece line at 346 in NY. After poking around the 3rd floor a salesman directed me to take the elevator to the 6th floor where it was being shown/sold. As I spoke with the salesman he said, "do you know much about the BF line?" After confirming that I did he said, "its kind of like oxxford, the suits are almost 3000$"

It seems BB's greatest challenge will be training the old timers to promote and sell this line.

When I went up to the 6th floor I was greeted by Gabrielle, a guy in his mid 20's dressed in a 1818 BB suit. He was a real friendly guy and said that the line was not supposed to be for sale this weekend @ 346 as they are in the process of building a section on the 3rd floor specifically for it, however, they have had such a positive response thus far, they decided to set up the 6th floor and keep it open for the holiday weekend. There were only a few shoppers up there trying things on and a few journalists taking pics and gathering info for their respective publication's I suppose.

All in all, the line is very interesting and (for the most part) blends well with the BB aesthetic. The suits feature sack cut coats and FF pants and are a similar fit to how many of us would probably wear a standard BB suit. The jackets are maybe 2 in shorter than what I would normally wear and sit higher on the chest, but it is not anywhere near as dramatic as TB's own pieces. Pants have a normal rise and can obviously be hemmed however you like. The jackets and coats are beautifully tailored and have as high an armhole as I have ever tried on. I ended up buying 2 shirts that fit me really well. I suppose I was lucky as a BB 4 fit my neck perfectly (the shirts are sold only in 5 sizes without regard for neck and sleeve measurements).

The belted cashmere sweater was amazing as was the price tag. Next.
As much as I like this line there are still many "what was BB thinking" pieces including 10k$ capes and knickers.

The thing I like most about this line is the simplicity. I'm sure many of us here have an absurd amount of clothes and endless options when we get dressed in the morning. It seems to me that it would be refreshing to have 2 gray flannel and 1 pinstripe suit, 4-6 different style shirts and the same number of ties, few random sweaters and odd trousers and a great topcoat that goes with everything. All the pieces would be beautifully tailored and getting dressed everyday would be a no-brainer.

I still have a beef with BB regarding the price of this line as there are so many pieces I like that are just prohibitively expensive. Still, I urge you all to check it out in person and try on a jacket or 2 for yourselves and I think you will find youreslf as surprised as I was.

MrR

Also, gabrielle said that while they had originally planned to keep TB on board for 2 yrs, (supposedly) management has decided to have him turn out new lines in definately.
__________________
\"Give me the luxuries in life and I\'ll gladly go without the necessities\"


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

MrRogers - thanks for the report. 

Your mentioning the high prices made me think that the current 'spend x and get $xx' discount may be a result of the new high dollar TB line, which they likely dont want to discount. It will be interesting to see if they come back with the clockwork 25% off sales now that they have the Black Fleece line. Perhaps they'll exclude Black Fleece if they do.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

I second the thanks to Mr Rogers.

Based on Danielle's comments regarding the preparedness of BB sales staff, I'd say this will probably be a flop. If I was Thom Browne, I'd be crapping bricks right now after hearing sales staff are saying things like that, as my repuation would be in jeopardy. Obviously, at least some BB sales staff have not been properly prepared.

DocD


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

I agree with you DD. I stopped in the King of Prussia brooks this week to get a few more shirts but the line hasnt been introduced to that location yet. The manager was an older woman but seemed to be informed/educated on BF, much more so than the regular staff. I'd be curious to know what measures BB is taking to train their employees as they are obviously on the front lines in terms of sales. I have to say I was surprised to hear the oxxford comment at 346 of all places

MrR


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## mack11211 (Oct 14, 2004)

My article on BF has appeared in today's NY Sun.

I wrote it based on the trunk show but then all the Fashion Week coverage pushed it back in the paper's pub schedule.

You can find it online here:


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## CM Wolff (Jun 7, 2006)

There is a very entertaining article in the October Esquire that catalogs a normal (6 ft., 185 lbs.) guy's experiences as he sets out on his day while wearing a Thom Browne suit in New York, personally outfitted by TB. Will try to post some of the funnier/insightful bits, but do not miss reading the article. While acknowledging the head-turning effect of the TB fashion, the guy still realizes that he essentially looks like an ass wearing what he's wearing, or at least that he is being perceived as one. The article was surely written for entertainment value, but there probably some truths to be gleaned from it....


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## wlipman (Dec 25, 2004)

Doctor Damage said:


> Those are great for laughs, but what do members think about _these_ ensembles?
> 
> I think they look really good, like old photos from the 1960s.
> 
> DocD


Pee-Wee Herman...where are you, now that Brooks Brothers has created a line of clothing for you?


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

The clothes are fine, but I know I kicked that boy;s a, at least once in my life.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

I';m going to but one of those big collared shirts.

*and nothing else really.


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