# Sid Mashburn Virgil Sack



## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Anyone have any experience with the Sid Mashburn updated sack model? The idea of an Italian take on the sack sounds very tempting.

https://www.sidmashburn.com/shop/tailored-clothing/navy-leno-weave-virgil-sack-jacket.html


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

I think that it would make a great suit. I am not sold on it as a blazer for two reasons. 

1. The lack of patch/flap pockets. I have come to find that this is something that I look for in a blazer. It keeps it relaxed. 

2. The buttons. They are the same color of the jacket (or black). I would prefer gold, bronze or even silver.


I am Sid fan, btw. They are one of the few non-Trad companies that I try to stay up on.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm not a fine of the Italian tailored look, and I concur with oxford's points about the missing blazer traits.


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## Ensiferous (Mar 5, 2012)

They are not calling it a blazer, true, but if it is just a blue "jacket" then it loses much of its traditionalism, IMO.

Even designers have become so conditioned to seeing orphaned suit jackets represented to be blazers that they have lost sight of the correct details.

Needed are 1/4" or 5/16" swelled, topstitched edges! Pickstitching = suit orphan. Also, as OCBD said, contrasting buttons are a must. And patch & flap pockets an excellent option.

The jacket made it to about the 20 yard line. And for about a grand?


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

Ensiferous said:


> They are not calling it a blazer, true, but if it is just a blue "jacket" then it loses much of its traditionalism, IMO.
> 
> Even designers have become so conditioned to seeing orphaned suit jackets represented to be blazers that they have lost sight of the correct details.
> 
> ...


That's about on point for a fully canvassed jacket.

I'll dissent. I like it. The cotton wool is enough to set it apart from an orphan and let's be honest, 99% of anyone out there is not going to notice the stitching, buttons, or pocket style. If it's good Italian tailoring, which I suspect it is, it should have an awesome shoulder. So aside from nit picking, look at the what really matters in a jacket. Drape? Check. Fully Canvassed and Italians do drape well. Shoulders? Check. Again, Italians know how to do soft shoulders. In the end, I'd rather have quality in wardrobe than details.

I say pull the trigger L-Field. Should mate well with your personal style from what I have seen you post.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Isn't quality also in the details? Isn't what makes something trad in details such as swelled edges, contrasting buttons, patch pockets, etc.?


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## Ensiferous (Mar 5, 2012)

I like it too. As a suit jacket. 

Give me a matching pair of plain front trousers, and I would gladly wear it. Much more so than a big-shouldered J. Press suit.


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

Nope, something about the lapels and a little "too much" shape for me but not really objectionable.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

And just to be weirdos, the put flapless patch pockets on the suit version: https://www.sidmashburn.com/shop/ta...rey-wide-stripe-sid-mashburn-casual-suit.html

At any rate, the navy jacket is a cotton/wool blend in what appears to be a very open weave. Doesn't really strike me as looking like an orphan jacket, although I would probably switch out the buttons for white ones. For what it's worth, more than half the blazers offered by Press and Brooks and all blazers offered by PRL have besom pockets.

TLDR, I can live without patch pockets and buttons can be changed. Back to my original question, does anyone have any experience with this jacket beyond the website description (which I'm capable of reading).

I am in the market for a cotton or cotton blend blazer. I am kind of kicking myself for having missed the boat on the Bills cotton chamois sack.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Ensiferous said:


> Needed are 1/4" or 5/16" swelled, topstitched edges! Pickstitching = suit orphan.


The pickstitching is definitely a turnoff. I'm not really even a fan of it on suits. I feel like it's kind of trashy, even more than working sleeve buttons.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

L-feld said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Sid Mashburn updated sack model? The idea of an Italian take on the sack sounds very tempting.
> 
> https://www.sidmashburn.com/shop/tailored-clothing/navy-leno-weave-virgil-sack-jacket.html


I like the look of the fabric. But, as others have said it needs metal buttons. Of course that is pretty easy to change. But, my primary objection would be to the price! Holy cow! A thousand dollars for a blazer that isn't really a blazer! No thanks.

For less, you can get a real sack blazer:

You could get a real blazer from J.Press for $595, or even $395 from O'Connell's.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

Duvel said:


> Isn't quality also in the details? Isn't what makes something trad in details such as swelled edges, contrasting buttons, patch pockets, etc.?


Technically, no. You could have all the right details in a cheap garment. Uniglo does this very well. I actually don't dwell on what makes something "Trad". I look for quality first and foremost. "Trad" is someone else's definition that is irrelevant to my personal style.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I like the look of the fabric. But, as others have said it needs metal buttons. Of course that is pretty easy to change. But, my primary objection would be to the price! Holy cow! A thousand dollars for a blazer that isn't really a blazer! No thanks.
> 
> For less, you can get a real sack blazer:
> 
> You could get a real blazer from J.Press for $595, or even $395 from O'Connell's.


Exactly.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

[Deleted rant]

Can anyone speak to the quality, fit, etc of this jacket, or Sid Mashburn in general? Can anyone provide some subjective feedback on how the shoulders are constructed, or how they feel when worn? Does anyone know what manufacturer they use?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Good points. I think that I do dwell quite a bit on what is trad. Kind of the point of the forum, after all. And I don't mind others defining things for me.



Eric W S said:


> Technically, no. You could have all the right details in a cheap garment. Uniglo does this very well. I actually don't dwell on what makes something "Trad". I look for quality first and foremost. "Trad" is someone else's definition that is irrelevant to my personal style.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Exactly.



Nobleprofessor said:


> I like the look of the fabric. But, as others have said it needs metal buttons. Of course that is pretty easy to change. But, my primary objection would be to the price! Holy cow! A thousand dollars for a blazer that isn't really a blazer! No thanks.
> 
> For less, you can get a real sack blazer:
> 
> You could get a real blazer from J.Press for $595, or even $395 from O'Connell's.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

L-feld said:


> [Deleted rant]
> 
> Can anyone speak to the quality, fit, etc of this jacket, or Sid Mashburn in general? Can anyone provide some subjective feedback on how the shoulders are constructed, or how they feel when worn? Does anyone know what manufacturer they use?


In general? Very, very high quality products with a modern, trimmer cut. Alpha-sizing I have to go up one, maybe two sizes and I can't wear their bond peacoat in even a XXL. This particular jacket I like, especially the fabric. It reminds me of my summer navy jacket of choice, a 2-button darted Oxxford in wool fresco that I put MOP buttons on.


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

L-field,

I have no experience with the sack, but I agree with what Reuben said about sizing. Also, the garments that I have seen appear to be of high quality. Sid, does not seem to be interested in disclosing who makes it (see below).

Via GQ _"At first, it looked like the suit he sought might be extinct. Most factories simply don't share Mashburn's values anymore-those non- negotiable principles regarding shoulders and canvas. Then he found a partner in Southern Italy. (He declines to get more specific.) Now the Sid Mashburn suit- natural shoulders, a full canvas, and modern tweaks like side vents, darts, and a ticket pocket-is jumping off his racks, thanks to prices that start at $995."_


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Reuben said:


> In general? Very, very high quality products with a modern, trimmer cut. Alpha-sizing I have to go up one, maybe two sizes and I can't wear their bond peacoat in even a XXL. This particular jacket I like, especially the fabric. It reminds me of my summer navy jacket of choice, a 2-button darted Oxxford in wool fresco that I put MOP buttons on.


So when they say slim fit, they really mean _slim_ fit? I suppose that means super high armholes as well?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I have to admit, the idea of a slim-fitting sack jacket seems a little contradictory. I know it's possible, but somehow it doesn't seem right. It's probably just me but it seems that sack jackets should be relaxed fitting.


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## fireworks (Sep 3, 2014)

L-feld said:


> So when they say slim fit, they really mean _slim_ fit? I suppose that means super high armholes as well?


If you like the aesthetic, Sid's stuff is excellent. If you don't, then you won't like it. Armholes are relatively high but I have never felt constricted in any of his garments when I've tried them on in the store.

Re: sizing, don't just subtract 10 from the Euro size. If you convert the cm sizing to inches, you'll have a much better estimate. So if you wear a 44 in American sizing, try the 56 cm (22.05 inches) from Sid.

Personally, I would switch out the navy horn buttons for tan horn and be more than happy with all the other non-trad details on the jacket.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Someone asks for opinions about an "updated" sack.

Everyone starts complaining about all the ways it differs from non-updated sacks.


Never change, Trad forum.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Semper fi oorah, and all that.



Orgetorix said:


> Someone asks for opinions about an "updated" sack.
> 
> Everyone starts complaining about all the ways it differs from non-updated sacks.
> 
> Never change, Trad forum.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

High armholes are a bad thing since when? I can't imagine not having them if given a choice.



Duvel said:


> I have to admit, the idea of a slim-fitting sack jacket seems a little contradictory. I know it's possible, but somehow it doesn't seem right. It's probably just me but it seems that sack jackets should be relaxed fitting.


See Take Ivy. Quite possible, and quite attractive.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Sure, I know. There are indeed good examples of slimmer sacks in 1960s photos. Still... just a personal bias of mine, I guess.



Jovan said:


> High armholes are a bad thing since when? I can't imagine not having them if given a choice.
> 
> *See Take Ivy. Quite possible, and quite attractive*.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Oh and, needless to say, quite an attractive jacket. I'd be fine with it as a blazer if it had silver or gold tone buttons.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Orgetorix said:


> Someone asks for opinions about an "updated" sack.
> 
> Everyone starts complaining about all the ways it differs from non-updated sacks.
> 
> Never change, Trad forum.


my primary complaint was that it was $1000 and wasn't even a real blazer!


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Jovan said:


> High armholes are a bad thing since when? I can't imagine not having them if given a choice.
> 
> See Take Ivy. Quite possible, and quite attractive.


Well, it's a relative thing. I have thick arms and weird shoulder posture, so depending on how high they are they can really dig into my armpits. Also, if the sleeve is too tight, I find it causes the shoulder to sit oddly. I know they have their benefits, but I try to avoid them with RTW.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Nobleprofessor said:


> my primary complaint was that it was $1000 and wasn't even a real blazer!


Really? I hadn't noticed the price when I looked at the website. I guess this wouldn't make a good choice for my very first blazer. I don't understand why a full canvas, hand tailored jacket doesn't cost $300. I should probably just buy the O'Connell's model that you linked to, because it's clearly what I was looking for, with its half canvassing, worsted wool fabric, and boxy shoulder silhouette.

I guess it would be a different story if I were someone who already owned 5 blazers, including one from J. Press and two from Brooks Brothers, three of which have patch pockets, swelled edges and hook vents. But clearly, I'm just a n00b who is building his blazer collection from the ground up and I have no idea what I want in a jacket. Golly me. I probably would have ordered this jacket and then, upon noticing that it didn't have metal buttons, just donated it to goodwill, since the the buttons are probably bonded to the jacket with adamantium.

Thankfully, someone who thinks Ronald Reagan is a paragon of TNSIL style is around to make sure I don't waste my money on something that isn't a real blazer.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

L-feld said:


> Well, it's a relative thing. I have thick arms and weird shoulder posture, so depending on how high they are they can really dig into my armpits. Also, if the sleeve is too tight, I find it causes the shoulder to sit oddly. I know they have their benefits, but I try to avoid them with RTW.


Good point. Though I'd like to think they'd proportionally size the armholes so they won't have that effect on bigger guys. I'm going to take a much smaller armhole than, say, Lou Ferrigno is.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

L-feld said:


> Really? I hadn't noticed the price when I looked at the website. I guess this wouldn't make a good choice for my very first blazer. I don't understand why a full canvas, hand tailored jacket doesn't cost $300. I should probably just buy the O'Connell's model that you linked to, because it's clearly what I was looking for, with its half canvassing, worsted wool fabric, and boxy shoulder silhouette.
> 
> I guess it would be a different story if I were someone who already owned 5 blazers, including one from J. Press and two from Brooks Brothers, three of which have patch pockets, swelled edges and hook vents. But clearly, I'm just a n00b who is building his blazer collection from the ground up and I have no idea what I want in a jacket. Golly me. I probably would have ordered this jacket and then, upon noticing that it didn't have metal buttons, just donated it to goodwill, since the the buttons are probably bonded to the jacket with adamantium.
> 
> Thankfully, someone who thinks Ronald Reagan is a paragon of TNSIL style is around to make sure I don't waste my money on something that isn't a real blazer.


Wow, Dude. I was just offering an opinion. I thought that was what you were asking for. I was apparently mistaken.


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## DPSK (Mar 8, 2007)

I purchased this jacket in the fall and have been eager to break it back out again for spring. Very unusual fabric. Open weave, heavier than I expected. It reminded me of an old Brooks hopsack blazer from the 70s I had "borrowed" from my uncle while I was in college. Mine is partially lined so despite the heavier fabric, I find it very breathable. I personally like the higher notched lapel. Shoulders are exceptionally soft. The only hiccup to me was that I found the button placement to be a bit compressed as compared to a more traditional sack jacket. One could probably wear it year round, however, I am not sure what heavier weight trousers would complement. I hope this helps.


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## Ensiferous (Mar 5, 2012)

^Welcome DPSK.

Please post a photo of the jacket in-action.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

DPSK said:


> I purchased this jacket in the fall and have been eager to break it back out again for spring. Very unusual fabric. Open weave, heavier than I expected. It reminded me of an old Brooks hopsack blazer from the 70s I had "borrowed" from my uncle while I was in college. Mine is partially lined so despite the heavier fabric, I find it very breathable. I personally like the higher notched lapel. Shoulders are exceptionally soft. The only hiccup to me was that I found the button placement to be a bit compressed as compared to a more traditional sack jacket. One could probably wear it year round, however, I am not sure what heavier weight trousers would complement. I hope this helps.


Thank you, thank you, thank you!

How is the length?


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Wow, Dude. I was just offering an opinion. I thought that was what you were asking for. I was apparently mistaken.


I was asking for an opinion based on firsthand knowledge. I'm sure you meant well, so I apologize for being so snippy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Tahmasp (Mar 15, 2014)

L-feld said:


> [Deleted rant]
> 
> Can anyone speak to the quality, fit, etc of this jacket, or Sid Mashburn in general? Can anyone provide some subjective feedback on how the shoulders are constructed, or how they feel when worn? Does anyone know what manufacturer they use?


I have no experience with their tailored clothing - a bit beyond my means - but their shirts and sweaters are of outstanding quality. I think it's a very special brand - original designs and craftsmanship that put interesting twists on the old classics, for in-reach prices.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Ensiferous said:


> ^Welcome DPSK.
> 
> Please post a photo of the jacket in-action.


Seconded.


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## DPSK (Mar 8, 2007)

L-feld said:


> Thank you, thank you, thank you!
> 
> How is the length?


Thank you for the welcome.
My coat is sized Eur 54R, and the measurement from the base of the collar to base of coat is approximately 30 inches, which I believe is within a half inch of, if not the same as, my sack coats from J Press. I find it to be a suitable length and not at all too short. That reminds me - the lapel roll is very pleasant and provides what I find to be a lapel that is neither too narrow or wide - admittedly a subjective and likely not terribly helpful comment.

In response to a comment above regarding sleeves - I am reminded that the sleeves of this coat are somewhat on the narrow side - not dramatic but noticeable to me - at least in this heavy fabric. I have a couple other of their coats where I do not sense the same effect, so it might just be the particular coat I purchased.

I recommend giving it a shot. If it doesn't work out, their return policy is completely painless. They pay shipping both ways. Best of luck with it.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

L-feld said:


> I was asking for an opinion based on firsthand knowledge. I'm sure you meant well, so I apologize for being so snippy.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I'll keep my opinions about prices and value to myself from now on.


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## chicagoboy (Mar 16, 2012)

Haven't seen anyone else mention it, but that gorge seems pretty high. Unless it's just the angle of the photograph, I think it will look dated pretty quickly.


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## Tahmasp (Mar 15, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I'll keep my opinions about prices and value to myself from now on.


If I may be so bold - I think L Feld was reacting to the claim that only a "real" blazer could be worth $1,000, i.e., one with all of the appropriate trad details. The issue here is that this isn't a judgement on "prices and value" - that can only be appropriately applied to quality of materials, workmanship, and other things that will determine the jacket's longevity and performance. That's where the price/value relationship becomes important. Arguing that the jacket isn't worth the money on stylistic grounds is essentially a statement about the other person's taste. That said, it's clear you were talking about your personal views, which is more than legitimate.


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