# Gents Dress Code at Royal Ascot-a short report



## Adagio (Aug 2, 2007)

Hi all,

Given all the attention the ladies at Royal Ascot are getting (rightly of course), I thought I'd give a short report on my experience of the gents' adherence to the dress code. All my comments relate to the Royal Enclosure by the way. I went on Wednesday.

My summary is that those who would normally dress well and with great attention did likewise at Ascot, and those who have little interest in their dress made this rather obvious also. Bespoke morning coats (or at least those which had been altered for the wearer) were easily spotted among the sea of hired ones. Fair enough I suppose, you can't fault a chap for not spending at least £500 on a (rtw, then altered) coat and trousers he might only wear once.

I was surprised at the high number of men wearing cravats and other modern day neck wear that you might expect to see a groom wearing. I blame the hire shops for this. A friend of mine hired his for our visit. The shop didn't have any black coats in his size, so they tried to rent him a mid-grey coat with grey striped trousers!

Colourful waistcoats were very prevalent, and almost all had high buttoning. In my view the most striking waistcoats were double breasted ones which could be seen in a variety of (single) colours, and which were rare but certainly in evidence, and some stunning single breasted ones I saw in buff linen. Many of the latter had dedicated vertical button holes for a watch chain.

Cutaway collars were relatively rare and I saw only three gents wearing stiff collars. I was surprised to see what I felt to be an almost 50/50 split between grey and black top hats. Again, the vintage silk ones looked magnificent. I noticed that many had had their black silk hats polished to give them a unique patina. Shoes were generally some form of black lace-up, (I spotted no balmoral boots-although this might have been slightly difficult) with a few slip-ons in evidence. I did see one gent wearing white spats!

*Sator, prepare yourself for the next part*....I saw at least two gents wearing brown shoes (with morning coats). Let's just say there is a reason why brown shoes are not supposed to be allowed.

On balance, those whom I would regard as having looked spectacular (apart from the PoW who was about two feet away from me at one point) were those who appeared to be older regular Ascot attenders who were entirely confident in their appearance, wore bespoke coats and trousers, polished, slightly "foxed" vintage silk top hats, well fitting waistcoats, contrast collar shirts, with nicely blended ties. Oh and an umbrella!

If any of you are considering going, I would thoroughly recommend it. The surroundings are nothing short of spectacular, the service superb, food and drink excellent, and of course the racing massively exciting. Overall a day to remember. As far as I recall, hospitality packages including entry to the royal enclosure start at around £300 each. Entry to the race course excluding food, drinks and Royal Enclosure is about £40 I think.

Adagio


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

Thanks for the report!

I totally understand the comment about the "old regulars" - people who know how to dress formally, and have done so frequently are almost always going to look better... if only because they're wearing the clothes rather than vice versa.

I don't think I've been to Ascot that I can recall... well, maybe once some years ago and not to the Royal Enclosure. I usually go to the Epsom Derby which is by and large a far more informal occasion (but still lots of fun).


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

Over the last 4 days there were a number of persons in the enclosure wearing toppers that had the appearance of being in a few wars, yet I do not begrudge this, as sometimes they are heirlooms and quite possible some may literally have been through a real war!

Some of the older gentlemen do have a topper that they may have bought when they as a youth and has been with them all their life. Yet this merely shows the acceptance of a hat that can last a lifetime.

One think I do disagree with is the wearing of opera hats (top hat collapsible ones) - as they are considered as eveningwear hat, not daywear. As morning dress is required then they may not be considered appropriate. But they are still allowed in, as they do not breech any specific rule.

I would guess in the Enclosure the percentage would be more so a 1/5 grey felt 1/5 black wool felt, 2/5 black silk (various conditions) and 1/5 black Melusine felt. With the odd splattering of risqué styles ... Thursday being ladies day, then grey is usually higher percentage (so as not to up shine the ladies!)

I had an antique "white silk plush" topper on display yesterday for ladies day (Had some lovely fillies accompanying me wearing it - Though I went in traditional grey!)

As to cravats I tend to agree - there were though most were worn as a "Scrunchie / Ruche" style which as you mention may be an influence of hire shops, rather than the Ascot /Cravat style. This is no "rule" preventing wearing then merely popularity / fashion.

If wearing a cravat one may wish to consider an "imperial", "high-imperial" or a "high-wing " collar rather than a standard wing tip as looks nicer in my opinion - but again that is a popularity issue.

Clip on stiff collars were popular I though - high percentage - I liked wearing a "double round" - but that is me. (Recommend for collars)

One thing I did see was a splattering of frock coats - always a classic and often bypassed with the morning "tail"coat in popularity (Morning dress allows for either morning "tail"coat or "frock"coat). A frockcoat is never out of style (I consider "fashion" is different from style!). 

Note: Hospitality packages vary - please see the Ascot main website for details. Some packages do have "access" to areas of the Royal Enclosure as part of the dining package for "that specific day"- BUT this does not give you membership for the Royal Enclosure - you still must be sponsored.

Pip-pip

Topper

p.s. I wore grey felt spats for the last two days  Though I did also see the chap with white ones.


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## Pulledpork (Jun 3, 2008)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, spats...

Did you see any slipped waistcoats?


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

Yes spats - different for me, but I try out the items I recommend :icon_smile:

Can't say for sure on slipped waistcoats - Sorry my eyes were mostly looking at the headpieces.


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

Topper, this is just fascinating, can you tell me what the dress code is in detail, or specifically what would be the optimum "look" to present for gents. I also don't get the whole "royal enclosure" business and how one gains entry and if you have to know someone and/or be invited. Can you tell me how that works?


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

The single rule is quite simple: 

_*"Gentlemen are required to wear either black or grey morning dress, including a waistcoat, with a top hat.*_

_Overseas visitors are welcome to wear the formal national dress of their country or Service dress." - source: __www.ascot.co.uk_

Within the racecourse there are three main areas: 


The Royal Enclosure
General Admission ( used to be called "Grandstand and Paddock")

[*]The Silver Ring
Each gives access to the areas below it and anyone can apply for tickets to the Silver Ring or General Admission. 

The Royal Enclosure is different. If you have never been before then you need to apply for a membership form in writing to the Royal Enclosure Office at Ascot Racecourse.

On your application you must be "sponsored" by a person who is already member of the Enclosure, who would be in good standing and who has attended at least 4 years (does not have to be consecutive years) 

At one point I believe there was also a limit of the number of people a sponsor could sponsor over any given period. This is not detailed anywhere but it may be part of the acceptance process. E.g. As a sponsor it is not envisaged you can just sponsor thousands of people in one year!!

Ultimately even if you are sponsored, you must still be accepted for membership is it not defacto given by the sponsorship.

After you have been accepted you can then apply any following year yourself for entrance without the need to be sponsored again.

A lovely tradition is one has "badges" for the enclosure, not "tickets".

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
Above is the standard basic way. Other ways way to visit the Enclosure are below:
¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

1) Dining Packages - some packages did allow access to areas of the Enclosure for that specific "day only" - This is not membership merely access to the Enclosure.

2) Guest of Member - This year members have been allowed to invite "guests" on the Saturday. Saturday is traditionally a family day. Again this is not membership, merely allows a bit of flexibility with bringing people along. E.g. If you were just made a new member (and unable to sponsor others yet) one could still invite one's partner /family or other guests along....so no longer an excuse for not inviting the wife! 

3) Commonwealth - Members of the Commonwealth can apply for invites for the day via their Embassy in the UK. E.g. for Australians:

_Only Australian citizens who are bona fide visitors to the United Kingdom are eligible to apply. Australian citizens who are _*permanently*_ settled in the U.K. are not eligible to apply. _

_Permanent residents of Australia, who have emigrated but are not naturalised citizens, are not eligible to apply. _

Each commonwealth country has many different application rules that need to follow, such as letters of recommendations, only allowed once e.t.c.

Again this is an invite - It this does not count as being sponsored or give defacto membership (though would need to check with Ascot on this as unfamiliar with exact regs in relation to overseas invites)

4) Finally one could always be invited by Her Majesty's Representative, or Her Majesty herself.


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## Adagio (Aug 2, 2007)

Pulledpork said:


> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, spats...
> 
> Did you see any slipped waistcoats?


No Pulledpork I didn't see any.



deanayer said:


> Topper, this is just fascinating, can you tell me what the dress code is in detail, or specifically what would be the optimum "look" to present for gents. I also don't get the whole "royal enclosure" business and how one gains entry and if you have to know someone and/or be invited. Can you tell me how that works?


Probably the easiest way to get access to the Royal Enclosure if you don't have any connections is to pay for one of the dining packages. These vary in price depending on the location of the restaurant (there are about 10 if I recall correctly) and on which day you attend (I think ladies day tends to be a little more expensive. They are listed here

Topper did you see John McCrirrick's hat? Different eh!!!

Adagio


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

Hi Adagio,

Didn't see him personally myself - though i guess may still be wearing the mauve/brocade fabric as last few years:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/berkshire/content/images/2007/03/12/203_john_mccririck_203x152.jpg

I used to know a girl who helped to make it

Are you going for the final day?

Pip-pip
Topper


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## Adagio (Aug 2, 2007)

Topper said:


> Hi Adagio,
> 
> Didn't see him personally myself - though i guess may still be wearing the mauve/brocade fabric as last few years:
> 
> ...


That's the one!!!

Sadly no. We just went on Wednesday, but we're already planning next year. I'd love to go for a couple of days.


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

I was there on Thursday. A few additional observations:

- I saw someone wearing a bright red silk top hat. Although I couldn't imagine wearing such a thing, it was superbly done. I asked the wearer about it, and it turned out that he is a London-based milliner who had made it himself. He bought a length of antique red silk at auction and made the hat from it. Completely barmy, but it looked great, in a sort of over-the-top way.

- a handful of people in creative versions of morning dress (and I'm not talking about the people in ugly cravats and wing collars that the hire shops foisted upon them). A couple of people wearing morning coats with tartan trousers. Someone came out of the White's tent wearing a black morning coat with a waistcoat made of grey stripey cloth that matched his trousers.

- very few people in military uniform this year - far fewer than in past years. I saw a US Navy officer and a couple of other uniforms I didn't recognize. I suppose the military generally has better things to do these days than swanning around at race meetings in full dress uniform.

By the way, in Topper's list of ways to get into the Enclosure, I think every embassy (not just Commonwealth countries) gets an allocation of badges for its nationals. I know some Americans living in London who have applied for badges through the embassy -- and I believe foreign nationals have to apply for badges that way and cannot apply through the usual process.


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

Yes other embassies may have their own allocation - I know the Australian method via some overseas friends of mine - though unsure excatly if how the allocations and numbers per embassey work - please consult your own embassey if you wish to find out.

Tarten trews were there a few been worn by some gents Though there were also quite a few Scottish wearing Prince Charlie Jacket and Kilts ( moreso evening wear) trews in my opinion would fit the correct dress.

If you read the rule exactly:

_*"Gentlemen are required to wear either black or grey morning dress, including a waistcoat, with a top hat.*_

_*Overseas *visitors are welcome to wear the formal national dress of their country or Service dress." - source: __www.ascot.co.uk_

Last time I looked apart from the non-mainland islands Scotland was not _overseas_, so whilst I appreciate Scottish pride, in theory they should be wearing morning dress and topper - Most of those wearing Prince Charlie Jackets were bare headed in the Enclosure ( though I did see a couple with Balmoral hats :icon_smile!

In respet to British Military, one would only see officers and ranks in uniform if they are on duty. If off duty and enjoying themselves they would be wearing standard morning dress with topper as with everyone else ( there are lots of Military in the The Cavalry & Guards Club !)

Again it is "overseas" military would be seen in uniform. Though agree have seen less overseas persons in uniforn also, they have the option of not going in uniform and instead wearing balck and grey morning dress or their national formal dress.....

Interesting point the overseas rule - I believe that in the US that _formal national dress _would be still be similar: Black Morning coat, wasitcoat, black & grey striped formal trousers e.t.c. Though unsure if the US still considers a "top hat" to be part of their _formal national dress ?_ I believe after Kennedy ( who did wear one) that it was no longer required, but morning dress outfit (ex-hat) is was still used by President Reagan and the like.

One in theory may have a case of avoiding a topper if one was from overseas (inc the US) and still wore the same matching morning dress as the UK ( note UK not just England!) but one clamed the "overseas _formal national dress_ " stipulation  Though as we would say over here:

_"that's not *cricket*!"_

In the spirit of things if overseas formal national dress is basically the same as UK's (ex-hat) then a Topper would be considered applicable to be worn as well.

Besides without it one would be merely an "_overseas visitor_" as it clearly states in the first para *Gentlemen are required to wear either black or grey morning dress including a waistcoat, with a top hat.* And naturally one should be a Gentleman


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

It's funny - I've argued the same point with people about wearing kilts. The rules say national dress only for overseas visitors.

I think it's stretching a point to argue that the formal national dress of foreign countries could be morning coat without a hat. The rule is designed for a pretty narrow range of things. For example, I saw a Japanese woman in a formal kimono. You couldn't show up in a cowboy hat and claim in be in American national dress.


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

Agree, the key word they use is _Formal _national dress, so the cowboy hat does not cut as formal, whilst it may be commonplace in their everyday dress. With the Japanese their formal for men I believe is still morning dress like ours and with a kimono the lady would not have any doubt of the length of a skirt, very appropriate and correct.

There is a great story of a Texan trying to wear a cowboy hat with morning dress in "The Grey Top Hat" - the story of Moss Bros in the good old days, and even they it was frowned upon.

I would recommend a top hat in all cases if the overseas dress is the same "formal" national dress code as our "morning" dress clothing - but not necessary if it was completely different.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Topper said:


> Last time I looked apart from the non-mainland islands Scotland was not _overseas_,


'Overseas' would appear to mean 'not part of the United Kingdom'. The Foreign Office website talks about embassies and high commissions 'overseas' (i.e. in other sovereign states). But there are also 'British Overseas Territories' where the UK is sovereign but which are not part of the UK (such as Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands).


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Trilby said:


> You couldn't show up in a cowboy hat and claim in be in American national dress.


....DAMN.

The cowboy clothes aren't formal in any way. That's like saying Germans can show up in lederhosen and dirndle.

Komonos are very formal in Japan, and very elegant usually. Jeans, chaps, bolos and cowboy hats aren't by any stretch formal or elegant, having been made for riding on muddy prairies and hugging obnoxious cows into the earth before burning their rumps with medieval torture implements.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Trilby said:


> ...You couldn't show up in a cowboy hat and claim in be in American national dress.


You could if you were a Texan.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Any suggestions about "Hire shops?" Those of us who someday might be going are unlikely to have our own morning rigs, much less want to drag things across the Atlantic (American is charging $100 for a third checked bag). By pre-booking something early from a reputable firm you could hope to have something that fits and doesn't look too out of place.


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

There are pros and cons for everything. And a number of shops I can highly recommend.

Some are national names and have many outlets - where you can book online, others are small traditional gentlemens' outfitters which are under 5 mins from the racecourse.

Ultimately it typically depends on where you will be staying as you have to return the outfit the next day. 

Be aware it is tends to be commonplace here that mens hire-shops only hire top hats if you also hire a morning dress outfit form them. They tend not hire hats on their own... 

(I can now see many people comming over wearing in the plane with Top hats on their head rather then pay for third checked bag :icon_smile_big:!)

Also you risk the previous hirer not returning them on time and go without at the last moment ( and mandatory for Gentlemen in the Enclosure). In anycase I would recommend getting your own Top hat and have it professionally fitted anyway.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

This thread definitely needs pictures.

As for finding a good morning coat, I have seen some fine vintage "cutaways", as they are called in American, on eBay. I even once spotted one from the 1930's made by J Press, no less.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Topper said:


> I can now see many people coming over wearing in the plane with Top hats on their head rather then pay for third checked bag :icon_smile_big:!


Morning dress and spats on the plane flying over the Atlantic? Now, I wonder when the last time was, when a gentleman flew across the Atlantic so well dressed?


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## Leon (Apr 16, 2005)

I was there on Friday and Saturday. I came out ahead on the horses on Friday, and down slightly on Saturday. The same goes for the standards of men's dress.

Criticism:
A lot of people wear silk brocade waistcoats. I think these are more suited to weddings, if anywhere. Solid coloured linen or wool is much better.

The hire companies put a lot of people into grey morning suits, even mix and matched grey coats and trousers, awful cravats or worse ruched four in hand ties. 

Quite a few men haven't realized that the waistcoat and trousers they bought twenty years ago, don't fit them anymore with their proud tummies.

(Loafers are quite commonly worn)

Good points:
Tartan trews i think look quite good, echoing the tweedy spongebag trousers that are less common nowadays.

I noticed a lot of British army chaps, in regular morning wear with their regimental striped ties, rather than uniform (unless they were in the band!). Incidentally, a lot of MCC members there.

Quite a few stiff collars and more slips on show than i remember.

Bear in mind that a morning coat IS a riding coat. A pair of chaps and a stetson isn't a million miles away!

Leon


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## Leon (Apr 16, 2005)

Some representative photos from the Telegraph:

Plastic sleeve cuff buttons:


















Ugly waistcoat, and horrible monogrammed lapel pin:









Garrick club member:









Mix and match grey looking good on Prince Phillip:


















Matching cravat to wife's dress:



























Nice PoW feathers tie pin:









Fabric covered buttons


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

Leon said:


> A lot of people wear silk brocade waistcoats. I think these are more suited to weddings, if anywhere. Solid coloured linen or wool is much better.
> 
> Leon


Patterned does not breech any rule, though may be considered more suited for (fancy) non-strict black tie evening wear or wedddings.

A plain coloured wool or linen is very classic, but sometimes patterned does show the enigma of Britishness :icon_smile_big:



Leon said:


> lot of people into grey morning suits
> Leon


Grey morning dress is traditional colour for Ascot (esp Thursday), though the coat does not match the trousers it is no longer a suit.

I did actually see some wearing green or blue morning dress ( a no-no for the enclosure 'tis black or grey only) and evening one chap without a wasitcoat! ( Though the regs were mostly followed).

Morning dress is a Morning "coat" either frock or tail (a cutaway in US) and formal trousers. As such formal trousers can be either plain black or plain grey ( with morning suits) or black and grey striped. There were a few houndstooth/dogtooth checked formal trousers which are a nice change.

I agree with you about trews - scottish trews are considered formal trousers, so trews are very respectable - though would recommend a morning tailcoat with trews to show them off and not a frockcoat ... one could stretch this to scottish day "jackets" (as opposed to formal "coats") thus conforming if Highland formal daywear was officially acceptable.

Though would much prefer Scottish day dress, than Scottish evening dress. A lot of peopling wearing kilts were wearing semi-formal, or evening Highland dress - not Formal Daywear.

Ultimately I would say at least they took took the time to "dress up" and not down :icon_smile: . We are discussing on here the "purest" traditional classic dress which is not know to every layman.

Sometimes people may have been advised incorrectly, but they do make an effort which is what it is all about.

Besides half the fun of Ascot is sometimes the quirkyness of fashion over style :icon_smile_wink:.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

*Fancy Waistcoats*



Topper said:


> Patterned does not breech any rule, though may be considered more suited for (fancy) non-strict black tie evening wear or wedddings.
> 
> A plain coloured wool or linen is very classic, but sometimes patterend does show the enigma of Britishness :icon_smile_big:


Actually, fancy silk waistcoats are an early Victorian stylistic feature. Charles Dickens was known to favour them, and caused many an American to raise his eyebrows when he wore then on a visit to those shores. They became popular partly in response to the availability and fashion for colourful silks from the Far East.

I have noticed a tendency for them to appear at modern English weddings. Although, alas, the silks appear to me rather cheaper than some of the finer historic specimens above.


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

If you start to consider classic "court" dress, the one can get very flamboyant brocades and designs waistcoats and outfits.

The rule is purely "_including a waistcoat, with a top hat_" - no specifics - beyond that it is merely Fashion...

I tend to think of plain linen or wool as "classic style" which can never go wrong with, a time calssic that cannot be critisied (except if in a clashing colour!) as to being fashionable or not.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Here is Prince Albert wearing his fancy waistcoat under his, well, Prince Albert (aka frock coat)!


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Topper said:


> If you start to consider classic "court" dress, the one can get very flamboyant brocades and designs waistcoats and outfits.
> 
> The rule is purely "_including a waistcoat, with a top hat_" - no specifics - beyond that it is merely Fashion...
> 
> I tend to think of plain linen or wool as "classic style" which can never go wrong with, a time classic that cannot be critisied (except if in a clashing colour!) as to being fashionable or not.


Court dress goes back to pre-French revolutionary dress, with all of its extravagant silk, so it is little surprising.

However, since Beau Brummell, morning dress has been all about English understatement and has mostly left fancy silks behind. The only nostalgic backward glances to pre-Revolutionary dress have come in the form of fancy waistcoats in the early Victorian era, and then more recently in the form of fancy silk ties.

Here, a Frenchman is torn between the Versailles court styles à la française and simpler English styled modern dress, the most famous proponent of which was Beau Brummell:










Doubtless he was remembering the masked balls at the old palace dressed in l'habite à la française:










An age when the French still dominated with both men and women's fashions.

Of note, is the fact that the fashion for fancy waistcoats was largely due to Count D'Orsay, Brummell's successor in England as _arbitur elegantiarum_. Unlike Brummell, D'Orsay was not only French but also of aristocratic blood. If Brummell was all about understatement, D'Orsay was the exact opposite, and was described by Jane Carlyle as being dressed "like a hummingbird".


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## S.Otto (Aug 14, 2007)

Topper said:


> Ultimately I would say at least they took took the time to "dress up" and not down :icon_smile: . We are discussing on here the "purest" traditional classic dress which is not know to every layman.
> 
> Sometimes people may have been advised incorrectly, but they do make an effort which is what it is all about.
> 
> Besides half the fun of Ascot is sometimes the quirkyness of fashion over style :icon_smile_wink:.


This section of your address is truly genteel & humble. Many on this forum could use your tact and understanding nature. If I was one of the horribly dressed I would definitely be will to accept advice from you. After all, you catch more flies with honey.

Truly a refreshing set of statements and is what is needed to coax back members to this forum.

Back to the subject at hand, overall from the photos circulating the interweb, most made an attempt a some even excelled. A favorite of mine is the POW with the POW feathers tie pin.


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

A couple of points ...

Assuming Scottish National Dress was acceptable at Ascot, the equivalent to the morning coat is the Argyll / Crail. This should be worn with waistcoat, daywear sporran (although semi-formal sporrans are now accepted), toning hose, kilt and balmoral, or waistcoat, trews and balmoral, with a pouch sporran an optional extra if the trews have no pockets.

That said, if a rule is imposed, why do people immediately have the urge to try to bend it or find loopholes? There is a reason why the 'old' Ascot goers - men and women alike - look the best turned-out.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

DougNZ said:


> A couple of points ...
> 
> Assuming Scottish National Dress was acceptable at Ascot, the equivalent to the morning coat is the Argyll / Crail. This should be worn with waistcoat, daywear sporran (although semi-formal sporrans are now accepted), toning hose, kilt and balmoral, or waistcoat, trews and balmoral, with a pouch sporran an optional extra if the trews have no pockets.
> 
> That said, if a rule is imposed, why do people immediately have the urge to try to bend it or find loopholes? There is a reason why the 'old' Ascot goers - men and women alike - look the best turned-out.


Resolved: Kilts do not belong at Ascot

While highland gear is not from "overseas" it is recognizeded as "national" dress for the Scots (even those from overseas). I suppose an official ruling would be required for overseas Scots. Though in my humble opinion, as an American Scot, a kilt would be wrong for Ascot even if jacketed and accesorized for daytime wear. The way to "represent" and meet the dress code as a Scot at Ascot would be formal tartan trews with MC and topper. A tartan waistcoat or tie, but never both, on top of striped trousers might also work, as would perhaps the tie of a Scottish regiment.

A Prince Charlie is just wrong as that's evening wear, and a day jacket w kilt doesnt cut it either as it does not take a top hat and is therefore outside the dress code.

Incidently, shepherds check, also used in morning trousers, has it origins in and is a symbol of the Scottish lowlands and borders. Tartan, though originating with highland clans, has gained currency with families in all parts of Scotland. Story/debate for another time.

Cheers,

Posed: What would citizens of the Irish Republic wear?? Assuming of course they would want to be caught alive in the Royal Enclosure in a non-clandestine role. And I'm not talking large land-owning, aristocratic Anglo-Irish, horse breeders.

What about the Welsh?

PS: Cowboy hats are not national dress, but a regional form. Texas has not been a republic in a long time and then only breifly.


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

Literide said:


> Posed: What would citizens of the Irish Republic wear?? Assuming of course they would want to be caught aloive in the Royal Enclosure in a non-clandestine role. And I'm not talking large land-owning, aristocratic Anglo-Irish, horse breeders.


There's a *huge* Irish contingent at Ascot, including in the Enclosure. There are certainly a few of the aristocratic Anglo-Irish, but they're massively outnumbered by ordinary people who come over for the racing. A love of horses is something that everyone can agree on.


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## Leon (Apr 16, 2005)

Sator said:


> Here is Prince Albert wearing his fancy waistcoat under his, well, Prince Albert (aka frock coat)!


The Duke of Windsor includes a very similar picture in his book A Family Album. The caption reads: 'After the Prince Consort's death, which took place a few moths after this picture was taken, the kind of fancy waistcoat which he is wearing went out of fashion for eighty years.'

Leon


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

Trilby said:


> There's a *huge* Irish contingent at Ascot, including in the Enclosure. There are certainly a few of the aristocratic Anglo-Irish, but they're massively outnumbered by ordinary people who come over for the racing. A love of horses is something that everyone can agree on.


Actually some Irish can claim they are overseas, and thus are entitled to the Formal National Dress, yet I don't remember seeing anything apart from Traditional Morning Dress in the Enclosure,( I did see one in Green morning coat or frockcoat, rather than official Black or grey though!) certainally no one dressed as leprechauns running around 

I was speaking with another outfitter, who supplied scottish dress, and the customer assured the outfitter that they had spoken with the authorities at Ascot, and than "Kilts" were allowed as national dress.... Now please note this 3rd / 4th party heresay..... I do no know who in which context it was said - but I did see kilts worn in the enclosure - so even if they weren't allowed they were not enforcing it.

Interesting was whilst the person was suposidly informed that "kilts" were allowed for national dress ( I am unsure if they explained that formal national dress _only_ shoud apply to overseas visitors! :icon_smile_big But at the same time they were also suposidly informed that they had wear a *hat* !

Note - unsure if further explanation was given if a glengarry or a balmoral or topper perhaps was to be worn! - not very helpful

My outfitter friend did manage to get them a Glengarry on time - But I can tell you I saw many a person in kilts without hats... So again a requirement that was not enforced.

The inconsistency in advice is the problem. I advise strictly and wish to avoid the situation where a customer may say "well you told me I shouldn't wear it - yet someone else got away with it!"

Hopefully before next year greater clarity will be achieved :icon_smile:


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

Out of curiosity, what happens if one shows up at the Royal Enclosure with a proper ticket and is not properly dressed? Does he get thrown out? Moved to general admisssion? Or just let in while everyone talks about him?


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## Topper (May 5, 2007)

A badge ( one does not have tickets) allows entrance to the other 2 lower areas which do not have as strict dress codes.

Whilst stewards have the "ability" to remove a persons "badge" and thus prevent them from entrance to the enclosure and racecourse as well.

I have seen in the past people being refused entry, or if they did slip by, then asked to leave the "enclosure" but they still kept the badge, so could still watch from the outside the enclosure.

Ultimately it is the discretion of the stewards on duty.

As to people talking about people ....that usually happens all the time if the get in or not! :icon_smile_big:


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Topper said:


> Actually some Irish can claim they are overseas, and thus are entitled to the Formal National Dress, yet I don't remember seeing anything apart from Traditional Morning Dress in the Enclosure,( I did see one in Green morning coat or frockcoat, rather than official Black or grey though!) certainally no one dressed as leprechauns running around
> 
> I was speaking with another outfitter, who supplied scottish dress, and the customer assured the outfitter that they had spoken with the authorities at Ascot, and than "Kilts" were allowed as national dress.... Now please note this 3rd / 4th party heresay..... I do no know who in which context it was said - but I did see kilts worn in the enclosure - so even if they weren't allowed they were not enforcing it.
> 
> ...


As far as I know there is no Irish national dress, but I asked to see what came back. A green MC is certainly interesting but a green WC would probably be more undestated and make the point while keeping with the dress code.

While Kilts appear to be tolerated, it would be interesting to know if headgear is required and bonnet with a kilt meets the national dress requirement. Personally, though I wear the kilt most any chance I get, I would break out the MC for Ascot. When in Rome afterall.


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