# Merino wool vs. cashmere



## red96 (Jun 26, 2007)

Hi everyone,

I came across this Q&A in today's Wall St. Journal. The question concerns the differences between merino wool and cashmere:

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB119810447368140607.html?mod=pj_main_hs_coll

The author basically suggests that merino wool is often a better choice than cashmere, but her focus is squarely on the $50 type cashmere sweaters you find at Target, etc.

For those who wear Scottish or Italian cashmere (i.e expensive but high quality), are there situations where you prefer merino wool over cashmere? I'm not sure I agree with the author's conclusions when considering
the higher quality cashmere out there... but I'm interested in what others have to say.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

I usually like merino better for socks but the pattern is more important to me than the fiber.


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## Bernard Arnest (Oct 22, 2007)

Just speculation (curious as well what others say),
but I've heard that good fibers are thin (therefore soft) and long and poor fibers the opposite.

So would shorter, fatter fibers, i.e., cheaper cashmere-- perhaps remainders sheared closer to hide on a Kashmir goat-- be much more likely to pill up, the author's principle gripe? It seems to make sense; short and stiff will come undone and poke up more.


-Bernard


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

My experience is that quality merino sweaters are often lighter weight than quality cashmere sweater. If you going for a thick sweater then cashmere seems the better choice. However, for the same weight, the merino sweater should outlast the cashmere one. All quality sweaters seem to me to be delicate and usually aren't bullet proof. Nevertheless, I have a number of vintage cashmere (some USA, some Scotland) that are so thick and heavy that they are bullet proof for walking the dog (100lb girl bloodhound puppy). The $49 Costco cashmere sweaters also hold up about as well at the $1k+ Loro Piana, Zegna, etc. The cashmere sweaters from Brioni and Kiton, however, tend to be heavy weight and are more toward the bullet proof range than not (though of course one could get more than a baker's dozen of the now $75+ Costco cashmere sweater for what a Brioni or Kiton cashmere sweater go for).


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

At that level, I have a lot of sympathy for the preference for Merino.


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

Bernard Arnest said:


> Just speculation (curious as well what others say),
> but I've heard that good fibers are thin (therefore soft) and long and poor fibers the opposite.
> 
> So would shorter, fatter fibers, i.e., cheaper cashmere-- perhaps remainders sheared closer to hide on a Kashmir goat-- be much more likely to pill up, the author's principle gripe? It seems to make sense; short and stiff will come undone and poke up more.
> ...


I've not had undue pilling problems with Costco sweaters, for instance. However, I tend to wear them layered two or three at a time with a thick vintage cashmere sweater on top. Costco quality is softer against the skin than the older vintage cashmere. However, note that the dobie (RIP) preferred to only eat the $1k+ cashmere sweaters and wouldn't touch a Costco one.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Merino is inexpensive, durable, nonbulky under clothing, looks fairly elegant, takes dyes extremely well, and offers a decent amount of extra warmth under a sportcoat given its light weight.

I'm a big fan of merino mock-Ts for wear under tweed jackets as a form of "dressy casual" rig in the winter. My favorite shades are black, navy, wine, and deep plum. All look good with gray flannels and just about every tweed jacket in my closet.

As for cashmere, I own a few sleeveless V-neck pullovers and some cashmere-blend sportcoats and socks, but beyond that I've never gone. I've always feared that the stuff is just too delicate for the number of greenbacks you have to plunk down to get even a cheap sweater or whatnot. What the O.P. says above about $49 cashmere sweaters lasting as long as their $1K cousins makes me think that Syms remains a good source for these kinds of items.


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*I don't know where you guys get...*

the notion that quality cashmere made in Scotland is fragile. Certainly cheap cashmere made in China ala JAB should be avoided, but good cashmere will last at least as long as any wool sweater. The cashmere lover can usually tell quality cashmere by just looking at it, and can definitely tell quality by the feel. Cashmere sweaters have been a life-long love of mine, not that I haven't forsaken cashmere for wool when my personal economy predicted it should. However, the cashmere connoisoir will always argue about the durability as well as the luxuriousness of cashmere vs wool. And while cashmere is expensive, Scottish cashmere is still a good buy if one can go directly to the Scotish makers, such as Johnstons or William Lockie, and avoid the retailer mark up. Chinese cashmere and injudicious retailer markups have given all cashmere a bad name. But my collection of Pringle sweaters, dating from 1985, are still in my cashmere rotation after 20+ years of inumerable wearings and washings. So much for the fragility of cashmere.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

dfloyd said:


> the notion that quality cashmere made in Scotland is fragile. Certainly cheap cashmere made in China ala JAB should be avoided, but good cashmere will last at least as long as any wool sweater. The cashmere lover can usually tell quality cashmere by just looking at it, and can definitely tell quality by the feel. Cashmere sweaters have been a life-long love of mine, not that I haven't forsaken cashmere for wool when my personal economy predicted it should. However, the cashmere connoisoir will always argue about the durability as well as the luxuriousness of cashmere vs wool. And while cashmere is expensive, Scottish cashmere is still a good buy if one can go directly to the Scotish makers, such as Johnstons or William Lockie, and avoid the retailer mark up. Chinese cashmere and injudicious retailer markups have given all cashmere a bad name. But my collection of Pringle sweaters, dating from 1985, are still in my cashmere rotation after 20+ years of inumerable wearings and washings. So much for the fragility of cashmere.


I'd like to be persuaded that my cashmere-related apprehensions are baseless.

What's the best-value online source for cashmere?


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

Will said:


> I usually like merino better for socks but the pattern is more important to me than the fiber.


I wanted to contribute but, as usual, Will sais it better an faster.


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*Best on line sources for cashmere?*

William Lockie and Johnstons of Elgin are two sources for on-line high-quality cashmere. I have queried William Lockie and they indicate they would sell direct to me, but I haven't as yet followed through with a purchase since I have had other sartorial priorities. Robert Old of Bournemouth carries William Lockie and they are generally a competitive retailer. They deduct the infamous VAT online and have shipping to the US included in their price. They ship via Royal Mail and then USPS and I have never had to pay duty. Have used them to buy C&J handgrades at $125 less than C&J NYC and Ben Sliver. Not as cheap as P. Lal, but easy to work with.

STP has specials on Johnstons of Elgin, but they never seem to have any exceptional colors. If you are an earth tone person, which I am not, you may like their selection. You can get a catalog from their site so you have the capability to order from their full line.

I especially like Pringle of Scotland, but they were bought out, I believe by an Italian firm, and increased their product line considerably. The downside of this is that their new flagship store in London must have increased their overhead considerably because there prices have gone up.

There are probably more companies with manufacturing capabilities in Scotland which are smaller with good prices. I think what you want to avoid is US stores unless they have a year end sale which lowers their prices below $300. London retailers are generally not good either. They are either very expensive or they sell Chinese cashmere ala Charles Tyrwhitt.
I have two three-ply cashmere sweaters from CT which were made in Sctotland and were excellent buys, but now they buy Chinese cashmere. They didn't bother posting about the Chinese cashmere on their site, so I was disappointed when I received the sweater and immediately returned it. They credited my charge and e-mailed me that they hoped I realized that they had to go to China to keep competitive. I replied if i wanted Chinese cashmere, I could get it from a US firm and that I would accept no Chines products including shirts and ties.

I noticed that BB this year is featuring cashmere mad in Scotland. They have good prices if you buy two (about $200 each). One thing about BB, if you don't like it you can return it.


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## Air King (Dec 17, 2007)

kitonbrioni said:


> I've not had undue pilling problems with Costco sweaters, for instance. However, I tend to wear them layered two or three at a time with a thick vintage cashmere sweater on top. Costco quality is softer against the skin than the older vintage cashmere. However, note that the dobie (RIP) preferred to only eat the $1k+ cashmere sweaters and wouldn't touch a Costco one.


The Costco sweaters are Italian, according to the tag. Regardless, I beat my clothes to hell and back (I'm a teenager/student) and the Costco cashmeres look as good as new...which might be a bad thing if you lean towards trad styles I suppose :icon_smile:


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