# Can All Wingtips Be Worn Casually?



## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

I am looking for a pair of longwings in dark brown or burgundy pebbled to wear with more casual attire, but I am not finding much luck. Can I wear my other wingtips (johnston & murphy) with chinos or even jeans?


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## Ethologist (Sep 30, 2008)

*I think you can*

I wear these J&M wingtips with jeans and chinos and it seems to work fine.

They are reasonably priced and good to wear for the days that i teach labs.


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

My pair, are more polished and I have worn them with suits, that is why I am questioning it.


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*brogues are country shoes, but*

It's iffy. Double sole or rubber sole helps. Delicate medallion doesn't.
Bluchers are more casual (sadly my cheap casual brogue is a balmoral).


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## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

+1 to that. 

I have 5 or 6 longwings and 2 bal wingtips. I rarely wear a suit and wear my longwings with cords, jeans, flannels and chinos. My skinny old school Florsheim vintage IMperials work great with skinny jeans and chinos. My AE macneils are too pointy and dressy to work that well with my skinny jeans and chinos--they would work better with dress pants cut like suit trousers. I feel they are really best for suits. All my double sole longwings work great as casual shoes (much more casual than my single sole bals, even though those are in a casual matte calf).

My Alden bal wingtips have so much brogueing they are inherently more casual but I also find that the bal design (vs. Blucher) makes them feel more formal. Still OK with jeans and cords but somehow not as right.

My alden barrie last longwings are great casual--can't imagine them with any suit but a tweed or corduroy suit because of the wide-bumper thick double soles.


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

*wingtips*



dport86 said:


> +1 to that.
> 
> My skinny old school Florsheim vintage IMperials work great with skinny jeans and chinos... All my double sole longwings work great as casual shoes (much more casual than my single sole bals, even though those are in a casual matte calf).
> 
> My alden barrie last longwings are great casual--can't imagine them with any suit but a tweed or corduroy suit because of the wide-bumper thick double soles.


Are the florsheim Imperials a decent quality shoe? How would you compare it to the alden barrie?


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## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

it depends on the vintage. I know there are more recent "Imperial" Florsheims that are made in India of plastic coated leather that crack and fall apart. 70's and earlier vintage IMperials, which are still quite common to find used (because they were cherished, popular and near indestructable) are superb and considered my many (including myself) to be the equal of the Aldens. 

Having said that, the lasts are quite different (the Barrie is quite a bit more capacious in the toe box and somewhat more comfortable). And there is a nicer finish on the Aldens (more handwork, the storm last on the IMperials feels a little crude). And of course, the Aldens in cordovan are things of beauty relative to the calfskin pebbled Imperials (I have only had used Florsheim shell long wings so difficult to compare fairly to my new shell Aldens). There are those on this forum that feel that the Florsheims are actually heavier and more strongly constructed than the Aldens--which doesn't necessarily mean better but the Florsheims have stood the test of time and the survival of so many in usable shape suggests to me that they may actually be tougher and better constructed. In my experience, the old Florsheims have soles that are harder and wear better (more slowly) than my new Aldens. 

OTOH, the old Florsheim V-cleat steel nailed leather heel is very slippery and treacherous on marble, concrete, steel surfaces. You will have to pay to have them reheeled if you wish to wear them regularly.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

dport86 said:


> it depends on the vintage. I know there are more recent "Imperial" Florsheims that are made in India of plastic coated leather that crack and fall apart. 70's and earlier vintage IMperials, which are still quite common to find used (because they were cherished, popular and near indestructable) are superb and considered my many (including myself) to be the equal of the Aldens.


I got mine about 1980 and they're made in the US. Do you have a date when they started making them overseas?


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## tempusfugit (Feb 7, 2006)

I recently picked up a pair of longwing bluchers in shell cordovan. I think they are the most versatile shoe I own. I wear them with everything. I also have a balmoral wingtip in burgundy, but never felt quite right wearing them with jeans or khakis.


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

I'd suggest taking a stroll through the "What footwear are you wearing" post in the trad section. There are always some good photos of members wearing various longwings and wingtips with jeans. It will give you a good idea of how different models look in real life. 
Tom


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## linklaw (Aug 1, 2007)

chava said:


> I am looking for a pair of longwings in dark brown or burgundy pebbled to wear with more casual attire, but I am not finding much luck. Can I wear my other wingtips (johnston & murphy) with chinos or even jeans?


Why not? My neighbor wears his with bermuda shorts and knee high black socks while he's mowing his lawn.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> It's iffy. Double sole or rubber sole helps. Delicate medallion doesn't.
> Bluchers are more casual (sadly my cheap casual brogue is a balmoral).


Exactly, the more casual ones will work fine.

Brian


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

They are inherently casual shoes - no matter how many people choose to wear them with town suits and such. Using them casually is the correct application.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

JibranK said:


> They are inherently casual shoes - no matter how many people choose to wear them with town suits and such. Using them casually is the correct application.


To follow this rubric, it is quite useful to be able to tolerate captoe shoes without broguing...I find it difficult, at best.:icon_smile_wink:

hbs


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

While I know that I would do so, would any of the rest of you be inclined to wear AE's McAllister, in walnut calf, with casual attire? It is a balmoral design but, the walnut color lends a more casual air to the shoe.


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## rmcnabb (Feb 25, 2009)

Take a look at Grenson's extensive line of wingtips - I think they have one of every possible permutation, in multiple leathers including a very casual oiled one. 

As said, the wingtip brogue is first and foremost a casual country shoe. It's highest and best place is with tweeds on the pheasant fields. We've dressed it up, but it is what it is. I think the classic Florsheim gunboat made it "the" American "dress shoe", but only by force of numbers.


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## glowell222 (Apr 20, 2009)

chava said:


> I am looking for a pair of longwings in dark brown or burgundy pebbled to wear with more casual attire, but I am not finding much luck. Can I wear my other wingtips (johnston & murphy) with chinos or even jeans?


I have to say yes, you can wear them with chinos and jeans.


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## WillisGeigerFan (Apr 24, 2007)

I'm presently wearing the last of the old Florsheim Gordon all leather wingtips (before they went to manmade linings and soles and eventually sunsetted the shoe) in burgundy/cordovan color with chinos and will, at times, wear them with a suit, too. With the right polish and some nice creasing to give them character, they look nice in any setting. 

At some point, I'll likely get the Florsehim Kenmoor black pebble grain wingtips. I have two pair of the Made in India smooth calfskin Kenmoors in black and cordovan and, despite other criticism on this board, are absolutely top quality, head-turning shoes that have stood the test of time over the past 7 years or so.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

I would not wear black wingtips casually.


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

WillisGeigerFan said:


> I'm presently wearing the last of the old Florsheim Gordon all leather wingtips (before they went to manmade linings and soles and eventually sunsetted the shoe) in burgundy/cordovan color with chinos and will, at times, wear them with a suit, too. With the right polish and some nice creasing to give them character, they look nice in any setting.
> 
> At some point, I'll likely get the Florsehim Kenmoor black pebble grain wingtips. I have two pair of the Made in India smooth calfskin Kenmoors in black and cordovan and, despite other criticism on this board, are absolutely top quality, head-turning shoes that have stood the test of time over the past 7 years or so.


How do the Kenmoors look with jeans and chinos? Do they come in a cordovan/burgundy pebble grain or a brown pebble grain?


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## WillisGeigerFan (Apr 24, 2007)

chava said:


> How do the Kenmoors look with jeans and chinos? Do they come in a cordovan/burgundy pebble grain or a brown pebble grain?


I can only speak to the Kenmoors that I presently own which are the cordovan and black "heritage" calf (smooth calfskin). I wouldn't wear the black ones with chinos (too military looking), but the cordovan kenmoors look very nice with chinos. With jeans, I'm a believer that pretty much anything goes from loafers to bluchers to wingtips so long as the jean leg length is correct and you have some positive attitude about yourself. Accordingly I've worn both of the Kenmoors with jeans and found that, on average, the cordovan pair gets more attention.

There is no cordovan pebble grain (only black and handstained brown). https://www.florsheim.com

Newsflash update: Just came back from my local Florsheim shoe shop where Kenmoors are reduced 25%. Needless to say, I decided to pass on the black pebble grain and went for the cognac (formerly handstained) pebbled. Can't wait to break these bad boys in.


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

chava said:


> I am looking for a pair of longwings in dark brown or burgundy pebbled to wear with more casual attire, but I am not finding much luck. Can I wear my other wingtips (johnston & murphy) with chinos or even jeans?


Yes. I do often.

What I think is interesting about these types of topics is that we assume everyone shares the same definition for the some things.
For instance one persons definition of casual is different from anothers. 
Nothing wrong with that.
I consider wingtips a dress shoe. Nothing casual about them to me.

Many times I consider the shoes that make a person well dressed more than his or her clothing.
I could wear a pair of wingtips with a pair of khakis and polo or Hawaiian shirt, someone could look down at my nice wingtips and think I'm well dressed. That's because of the shoes alone. 
Take that same outfit and wear sneakers and I'm automatically considered dressed casually.
Khakis/chinos, polo and Hawaiian shirts are casual, I know, but the wingtips which I consider a dress shoe make the outfit look dressed up in my opinion.
The type of wingtip doesn't change my opinion as to whether it's a dress shoe or casual shoe.
I think a longwing blucher can look perfect with a suit IF the pant legs are fuller and have a wide leg opening. I think longwing double soled bluchers can overpower slim fitting pants with small leg openings.

When some say wingtips are a casual shoe I lump that thought process 
with the same as not wearing brown shoes after 6pm. For me it doesn't apply. 
I started wearing wingtips before I knew the rules others followed on this forum. I'm not one to adopt clothing rules just because others say so.



TommyDawg said:


> I'd suggest taking a stroll through the "What footwear are you wearing" post in the trad section. There are always some good photos of members wearing various longwings and wingtips with jeans. It will give you a good idea of how different models look in real life.
> Tom


I'd be one of the offenders.:icon_smile_big:
I have lots of jeans and khaki combos with wingtips posted there.



eagle2250 said:


> While I know that I would do so, would any of the rest of you be inclined to wear AE's McAllister, in walnut calf, with casual attire? It is a balmoral design but, the walnut color lends a more casual air to the shoe.


Yes. I think they're a fantastic looking shoe that can go with anything.
My vintage AEs McAllister aren't like the new Walnut brown but they're brown.
I wore my Brown McAllisters with khakis. Later in the day I wore them with black jeans when I went for a stroll with my wife.
What's interesting is that I had on a Tommy Bahama Hawaiian shirt, black jeans, and brown wingtips and made a business contact while going for a walk.
I saw someone walking that I recognized from the gym. 
Never met the guy before but we exchanged business contact info and will be networking in the future.
Of course, I give all the credit to my wingtips.:icon_smile_big:

I took these photos today and remembered this thread.
















Allen Edmonds McAllister
vintage brown
leather/linen lined


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

hbs midwest said:


> To follow this rubric, it is quite useful to be able to tolerate captoe shoes without broguing...I find it difficult, at best.:icon_smile_wink:
> 
> hbs


Wholecuts and Chelseas are your friend.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Crownship said:


> Yes. I do often.
> 
> What I think is interesting about these types of topics is that we assume everyone shares the same definition for the some things.
> For instance one persons definition of casual is different from anothers.
> ...


Great looking shoes.


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

*balmorals vs. bluchers*

Don't the balmorals look too formal for wear with jeans and chinos? Aren't they really intended for wear with slacks or suit?


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

jackmccullough said:


> Great looking shoes.


Thank you.^



chava said:


> Don't the balmorals look too formal for wear with jeans and chinos? Aren't they really intended for wear with slacks or suit?


It depends on who you ask.
I'll buy bals knowing I'll occasionally pair them with jeans.
That's my intention.

A F430 Ferrari can be raced on a track or collected and never driven.
Some Ferrari collectors think it's crazy to take a $200K car and race it.
While one owner thinks a Ferrari sitting never being driven and enjoyed is a waste.

Each owner has an intended purpose for his possesions.

The manufacturer doesn't make the rules, they just make the product.


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## anselmo1 (Dec 22, 2006)

The next thing people will ask are they appropriate with men's shorts with white socks?


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