# Thoughts on the black watch sport coat



## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

This is available again in my size on the J. Press website. On the one hand it would almost feel, psychologically speaking, like wearing a really comfy tartan blanket all day long. On the other, it strikes me as a little GTH. Not nearly as much as fun pants, but certainly more so than just a conventional Navy blazer. Thoughts?

Press version:

Orvis version (note the lack of the windowpane overlay):


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^While the "comfy tartan blanket" analogy might properly be applied to the Orvis offering, I think the J Press jacket is quite striking, yet reserved in it's design, making it an infinitely more wearable jacket. If I may ask, what is J Press asking for that sport coat?


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

To me (realizing I'm probably in the minority) the windowpane ruins the Black Watch. The appeal of Black Watch done right is that it can really function as a solid if the companion pieces are chosen correctly. Not so much with the windowpane.


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## D. Barlow (May 5, 2008)

Zot! said:


> This is available again in my size on the J. Press website. On the one hand it would almost feel, psychologically speaking, like wearing a really comfy tartan blanket all day long. On the other, it strikes me as a little GTH. Not nearly as much as fun pants, but certainly more so than just a conventional Navy blazer. Thoughts?
> 
> Press version:
> 
> Orvis version (note the lack of the windowpane overlay):


I believe the Press jacket pictured above is their spring/summer weight blackwatch. Press sells one identical to the Orvis model for the fall/winter. I strongly prefer the fall/winter pattern.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Zot! said:


> This is available again in my size on the J. Press website. On the one hand it would almost feel, psychologically speaking, like wearing a really comfy tartan blanket all day long. On the other, it strikes me as a little GTH. Not nearly as much as fun pants, but certainly more so than just a conventional Navy blazer. Thoughts?
> 
> Press version:
> 
> Orvis version (note the lack of the windowpane overlay):


I like the JPress version. I think that it allows a little more variation of pnats colors. Although I am not a trade I do like the Orvis model as well. I would go for the JPress one first. How much is it and what is the fabric makeup. Wool, Cashmere etc.. Enjoy whichever one you decide to buy.:icon_smile:


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*Thanks*

I prefer the Orvis jacket, and I bought my four year old son one very similar to it in a three-button stance. I really do not like the windowpane overlay on the other jacket.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

D. Barlow said:


> I believe the Press jacket pictured above is their spring/summer weight blackwatch. Press sells one identical to the Orvis model for the fall/winter. I strongly prefer the fall/winter pattern.


Here's the fall/winter offering from Press:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I think these are all very handsome jackets, and that a blackwatch tartan jacket could be used in many settings. I don't agree however that the jacket with the overplaid would be more versatile, IMO, because of the nature of tartan, i.e., the more muted, the more versatile. I like the jacket in Taliesin's photo a good deal better than the other Press jacket. In choosing between Press's jacket and Orvis, I prefer most aspects of the Press jacket, except the high button stance. I detest this recent (less than 10 years) direction (pun) for jackets, and will resist it until it changes again, or I die, whichever comes first! 

I think both the Orvis and Press jackets should be tailored pretty well, but if a gun were held to my head, I'd personally probably pick the Orvis jacket, mainly because of the button stance and the slightly more muted appearance of the tartan.


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## randomdude (Jun 4, 2007)

I think the Orvis jacket is perfect. If it ever goes to the sale outlet I'm definitely buying it - $450 is pretty steep. Ever since I saw a pic of Brownshoe in a blackwatch jacket with khakis and a pink OCBD I've really wanted one.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

Zot! said:


> ...it strikes me as a little GTH. Not nearly as much as fun pants, but certainly more so than just a conventional Navy blazer...


In "real life," these jackets are extremely muted. I wouldn't worry about the perceived GTH aspect. In fact, I own the Press brown watch jacket, and often wish it had more pop to it so I wouldn't just look like a sort of blob from greater than 18" away.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Taliesin said:


> Here's the fall/winter offering from Press:


Absolute perfection. Indeed, this is what a Blackwatch Jacket was meant to be!


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Brooksfan said:


> To me (realizing I'm probably in the minority) the windowpane ruins the Black Watch. The appeal of Black Watch done right is that it can really function as a solid if the companion pieces are chosen correctly. Not so much with the windowpane.


It makes it look like a Gordon tartan. Who knows? Maybe it is.


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

Another option (not bound to be anybody's favorite here because it's 2b darted) is the BB version, also with the overlay:


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Zot! said:


> Another option (not bound to be anybody's favorite here because it's 2b darted) is the BB version, also with the overlay:


You're right, that exagerated cut is the pits!

And I'll add, it's not about 2b darted, as even Press sells those also, it's the *EXAGERATION* originating in British clothing that went off the rails 5 to 10 years ago. The so-called trad cult of 3b sack, is just that, a cult, since true TNSIL has always included both 2b and darts as alternative jacket styles.


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

^
I think I could warm up to it more if it was in the "Madison," rather than "Regent" fit, darts notwithstanding. Of course, the model in that photo probably has about a good 1" of material clipped together behind his back to make it appear more fitted. Another drawback is that I find the concept of the ticket pocket kind of gimmicky. Maybe it's an old idea, but it seems like everybody and his brother is doing it these days.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

For starters, even w/o the pale green/yellow windowpane, the Press jacket still isn't Black Watch. Because of the pale blue windowpane underneath. Any tartan with anything else added ceases to be permitted the name of the original tartan. Also the sett under the windowpane doesn't look like Black Watch anyway. 

That said I far prefer the Press jacket to the Orvis. The Press jacket looks stylish and depsite the windowpane overlays quite reserved actually. 

To me the Orvis looks absolutely awful. It looks like a parody of itself, like the kind of jacket that would have been worn by Jerry Lewis or Phil Silvers on a golf course in a 1960s film.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Absolute perfection. Indeed, this is what a Blackwatch Jacket was meant to be!


Agreed.

Point of order though for everyone, it is Black Watch not Blackwatch.

Also what is this GTH? something humour maybe?


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Zot! said:


> Another option (not bound to be anybody's favorite here because it's 2b darted) is the BB version, also with the overlay:


Again, you're not permitted to call a tartan by a specific name if it doesn't adhere to the tartan of that name, in other words, this is no longer Black Watch


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

TMMKC said:


> It makes it look like a Gordon tartan. Who knows? Maybe it is.


Good suggestion, but not quite. The "dark" Gordon doesn't have the pale blue windowpane, ito nly has a yellow windowpane, and the green is much brighter.

I think the picture quality here might be to blame because for me that isn't the BW under the two windowpanes.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

TMMKC said:


> *It makes it look like a Gordon tartan.* Who knows? Maybe it is.


Gordon has a yellow windowpane; other Highland regimental tartans, notably MacKenzie/Seaforth Highlanders, were essentially the Government (Black Watch) sett with various colored overstripes/windowpanes.

In the 18th century some elements of the Royal 42nd Highland Regiment (Black Watch) wore the tartan with a red overstripe...would love to see that revived.

hbs

PS: my vote for the Press Fall/Winter offering!


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## oxford (Feb 24, 2008)

I just purchased this Black Watch Jacket two weeks ago from J. Press. It is an excellent piece of goods made from Scottish Cloth sourced from Robert Noble. I wear Taupe Calvary Twills and Blue University Striped Button Down accented by a Hunt Club Tie in dark ink color with Argyle Socks and pocket square in dark red geometrics. An awesome outfit with Alden Burgandy Loafers and Burgandy belt from Trafalger.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

oxford said:


> I just purchased this Black Watch Jacket two weeks ago from J. Press. It is an excellent piece of goods made from Scottish Cloth sourced from Robert Noble. I wear Taupe Calvary Twills and Blue University Striped Button Down accented by a Hunt Club Tie in dark ink color with Argyle Socks and pocket square in dark red geometrics. An awesome outfit with Alden Burgandy Loafers and Burgandy belt from Trafalger.


It sounds awesome sir!


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

I've always liked this Southwick advert from M Magazine in '85. I think the tendency is to go solid on the shirt but the blue university stripe oxford is so classic with the jacket.

https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2008/06/southwick-ad-from-1985.html


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## stant62 (Aug 6, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Also what is this GTH? something humour maybe?


Also looking as to what GTH stands for... the only thing I could think of is gate to heaven.


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Go to Hell as in, "You can Go To Hell if you don't like my Lilly P trousers."


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

tintin said:


> I've always liked this Southwick advert from M Magazine in '85. I think the tendency is to go solid on the shirt but the blue university stripe oxford is so classic with the jacket.
> 
> https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2008/06/southwick-ad-from-1985.html


This looks marvelous. Never would have thought of it but it's brilliant.


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## yossarian (Apr 17, 2007)

Interesting. I usually wear the blue university stripe with green cords when I wear my black watch sport coat.


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## randomdude (Jun 4, 2007)

randomdude said:


> I think the Orvis jacket is perfect. If it ever goes to the sale outlet I'm definitely buying it - $450 is pretty steep. Ever since I saw a pic of Brownshoe in a blackwatch jacket with khakis and a pink OCBD I've really wanted one.


 just came in the mail today and it is GORGEOUS. The pattern is not too strong but it's definitely there. Perfect!


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

FWIW, the Press "brownwatch" jacket that Sartre mentions above is currently 75% off in stores. It is beautiful; and IMHO the brown cuts down on the "I'm dressed for a Christmas party" look that can sometimes result from wearing an aggressive black watch jacket. I picked one up for myself on my visit last weekend for under $100. At that price I couldn't afford _not _to buy it.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Zot! said:


> Another option (not bound to be anybody's favorite here because it's 2b darted) is the BB version, also with the overlay:


That is the Brooks Brothers tartan, registered with the Scottish tartan authorities as #3736.
Why they call this jacket "black watch" I dont know.

They also have #3735 which look like the basis for some of the madras jackets they have offered.

#s 6571, 6572, 6573 appear to be the tattersalls that have been used as coat linings and on luggage.

Cheers


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

is there some online source too look that sort of thing up on?


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> is there some online source too look that sort of thing up on?


https://www.scotweb.co.uk/

https://www.house-of-tartan.scotland.net/software/


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Thanks!


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Thanks!


PS: if you download the software from House of Tartan you will only get a sample file with it. You can request the complete library of tartans and they will send you a zip file of it.

Hope you find what you are looking for.


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