# Your grail



## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

I was looking back through the Trad Men thread the other day and came across this picture which, aside from being an amazing shot of an amazing artist (Jacob Lawrence) shows the one item that I have simply never been able to find. If I were to name my one GRAIL item, it would be a herringbone tweed sack suit. The one other piece I have never found is a bottle green sack blazer. However, I can always call up O'Connells and order theirs. I don't know anyone who offers this suit. Neither ebay nor etsy has produced one nor have I come anywhere close at the thrifts. So, if anyone comes across one in 40R, I'm your guy.

Interested in what everyone else's white whale is.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

CMDC said:


> The one other piece I have never found is a bottle green sack blazer. However, I can always call up O'Connells and order theirs.


Too bad that green 3/2 sack blazer I had on the exchange wasn't your size.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Very nice. I think my grail at this point would be about a dozen expensive Shetland sweaters on my shelves! Actually, I lust after a lot of items but I'm not sure any is out of reach enough to qualify as a true grail. Aside from Shetlands, I'd say, a camelhair polo overcoat, a Barbour Beaufort, some beef roll loafers, maybe a J. Press suit.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Still haven't found a 3/2 madras sack or a 3/2 patchwork tweed sack with patch pockets, but I have found madras and patchwork tweed jackets that fit, so there's that. CMDC, keep an eye out for old JAB tweed suits on eBay. That's where I found my 3/2 sack suit in a slate-blue herringbone.


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## Natty Beau (Apr 29, 2014)

I've been very blessed this year, and I have to say I've achieved all my "grails."

I found a double-breasted flannel suit for $60, a 3/2 sack triple patch pocket tweed suit for $20, a 2-button sack triple patch pocket unstructured linen suit for $22 and a 3/2 sack triple patch pocket flannel navy blazer for $9.

I told my wife I don't plan to add any more jackets/suit to the wardrobe... we'll see how long that lasts.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Three-piece HT 3/2 sack suit.

In my opinion, a grail should be something that is either no longer made and nigh impossible to find at any price or prohibitively expensive. By that definition, a cashmere dressing robe might also qualify, but they can be had for a couple hundred or so on the secondary market, so no.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

High quality items that aren't thrifted. 

Alden loafers and a J. Press navy blazer top the list. 

I would also love a trunk full of shetland sweaters from Press and O'Connell's. Also the wool shawl cardigan from Press (quite a sweater at $495).


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

CMDC said:


> I was looking back through the Trad Men thread the other day and came across this picture which, aside from being an amazing shot of an amazing artist (Jacob Lawrence) shows the one item that I have simply never been able to find. If I were to name my one GRAIL item, it would be a herringbone tweed sack suit. The one other piece I have never found is a bottle green sack blazer. However, I can always call up O'Connells and order theirs. I don't know anyone who offers this suit. Neither ebay nor etsy has produced one nor have I come anywhere close at the thrifts. So, if anyone comes across one in 40R, I'm your guy.
> 
> Interested in what everyone else's white whale is.


Does your definition of Grail mean you can't find it on ebay, etsy or thrift stores. Or do you mean, you can't find it anywhere?


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

universitystripe said:


> High quality items that aren't thrifted.
> 
> Alden loafers and a J. Press navy blazer top the list.
> 
> I would also love a trunk full of shetland sweaters from Press and O'Connell's. Also the wool shawl cardigan from Press (quite a sweater at $495).


Alden loafers are thrifted. Not that often, but I have found several. Now, they don't ever seem to be thrifted in MY size!


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## Natty Beau (Apr 29, 2014)

universitystripe said:


> High quality items that aren't thrifted.


Haha, in that case I would have no grail that is attainable, I'm afraid.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

For me, generally my grail would be a 3/2 sack suit IN 50L. I can't find one anywhere. Maybe vintage 50Ls are impossible to find because there weren't very many people that size years ago. 

Specifically, I would love to find ravello shell cordovan shoes in 11.5C, a navy OXXFORD 50L that doesn't cost $3-5000, and a vintage alligator briefcase/doctor bag that costs less than a nice car.


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Does your definition of Grail mean you can't find it on ebay, etsy or thrift stores. Or do you mean, you can't find it anywhere?


I agree with what 32 said--something that isn't really available retail anymore. Like I said with my desire for a bottle green blazer--I can call up O'Connells at any time for that. Going to have to be something that you rely on the whims of the thrifts and the internet for--and even then you're going to have to be really lucky. I haven't come within a sniff of a suit like this.


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## CrazyLarry (Jun 17, 2014)

My grail - to thrift Shell Cordovan Alden or Allen Edmonds PTB or Chukkas in my size for under $10. Hey, a guy can dream.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

CMDC said:


> I agree with what 32 said--something that isn't really available retail anymore. Like I said with my desire for a bottle green blazer--I can call up O'Connells at any time for that. Going to have to be something that you rely on the whims of the thrifts and the internet for--and even then you're going to have to be really lucky. I haven't come within a sniff of a suit like this.


If you have to have it and don't mind paying significantly more than thrift prices, you could go with Southwick MTM.


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## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

This is awfully close to my grail, which happens to be the same as CMDC's. Behold, a dated 1947 Chipp brown herringbone tweed suit:



It's almost my size, too. Too bad the jacket is so long and the pants so short. For that price, it would need to be perfect.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

CMDC said:


> I agree with what 32 said--something that isn't really available retail anymore. Like I said with my desire for a bottle green blazer--I can call up O'Connells at any time for that. Going to have to be something that you rely on the whims of the thrifts and the internet for--and even then you're going to have to be really lucky. I haven't come within a sniff of a suit like this.


Here is something that I would LOVE TO HAVE. I guess it's not technically Grail because obviously it is available retail:

A shell cordovan briefcase.


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## Ensiferous (Mar 5, 2012)

Not a grail item, but one example of a collective grail of a rig:


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

CrazyLarry said:


> My grail - to thrift Shell Cordovan Alden or Allen Edmonds PTB or Chukkas in my size for under $10. Hey, a guy can dream.


I thrifted two pairs of Alden LHS from America Thrift in Centerpoint today... anything can happen.


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

We should merge this with the Trad Girlfriend thread.....


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

?? Because a trad girlfriend is a grail item?



vpkozel said:


> We should merge this with the Trad Girlfriend thread.....


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

vpkozel said:


> We should merge this with the Trad Girlfriend thread.....


Pssh, had that for a while. Met her through our local fox hunt.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Alden loafers are thrifted. Not that often, but I have found several. Now, they don't ever seem to be thrifted in MY size!


Whoops. I should have specified that these are items I would like to purchase new instead of thrifting them. Not that they are never thrifted.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

universitystripe said:


> Whoops. I should have specified that these are items I would like to purchase new instead of thrifting them. Not that they are never thrifted.


Yes, I hate it when I find Aldens in thrift stores.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

32rollandrock said:


> Yes, I hate it when I find Aldens in thrift stores.


Hey, I wouldn't knock used Aldens. But the grail is to have new ones of my own.


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## sskim3 (Jul 2, 2013)

Hmmm..... Thinking about this for awhile - 100% Vicuna Sack Suit for the win.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

drlivingston said:


> I thrifted two pairs of Alden LHS from America Thrift in Centerpoint today... anything can happen.


Sizes?


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

A gabardine/tweed reversible coat with raglan sleeves, I'd like to find an old Invertere one.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

ThePopinjay said:


> A gabardine/tweed reversible coat with raglan sleeves, I'd like to find an old Invertere one.


+1, but I'd add I want it to be grey tweed (harder to find than brown) and a true 40L so that it fits me (J.Press still makes them, but not in 40L). Popinjay - great call and it would fit your style perfectly

And - and this has been a passion for years - I want a 1950s style black and white large herringbone (where the white is strong enough to make the color look medium to light grey) overcoat with a raglan sleeve and large collar that is a true 40L and would look great over khakis, an OCBD and grey sweater or a tweed sport coat and grey flannels. Meaning it is a bit too casual for a suit, but fine for everything else. James Dean had one, but I couldn't find the picture, but they were very popular in the 50s.


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## sarakali (May 19, 2013)

A lot of my grails are not limited by affordability so much as availability. A sack suit from J. Press would be great if they made them in a 36R, as would sweaters in a Small from Andover Shop or trousers in a 30 waist from Ben Silver. And MTM is certainly out of my price range haha.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

gr8w8er said:


> There are three items I look for nearly every day -
> 
> * small waterbag by Saddleback Leather
> * gold Reverso by Jaeger LeCoultre, but really, really?
> * a Burberry trench coat


I happen to know that there is a 44R Burberry Rain/Trench Coat brand new with tags on ebay. It's amber colored with the belt and zip out warmer. It's priced much less than current retail AND I'm sure the seller would give an AAAC discount. But, if we are talking thrift store prices, then that would be a serious Grail, more like approaching unobtainium.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

ThePopinjay said:


> A gabardine/tweed reversible coat with raglan sleeves, I'd like to find an old Invertere one.


This was my grail, until I thrifted one a couple of years ago - same goes for a tan wide wale cord blazer in a sack cut with patch pockets

As for new grails, I'm with CMDC on a vintage bottle green blazer, or perhaps a tuxedo with all the tradly details (shawl or peak)



sarakali said:


> A lot of my grails are not limited by affordability so much as availability. A sack suit from J. Press would be great if they made them in a 36R, as would sweaters in a Small from Andover Shop or trousers in a 30 waist from Ben Silver. And MTM is certainly out of my price range haha.


They have small shetlands at AS, they're just not on the website


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

CMDC said:


> I agree with what 32 said--something that isn't really available retail anymore. Like I said with my desire for a bottle green blazer--I can call up O'Connells at any time for that. Going to have to be something that you rely on the whims of the thrifts and the internet for--and even then you're going to have to be really lucky. I haven't come within a sniff of a suit like this.


CMDC - I bet Southwick could make one from their made-to-measure line. They still make brown herringbone tweed sack sportcoats. It would probably be more than you (or most people) would want to spend, I realize. I picked up a nice brown Donegal tweed suit from J. Press on super sale a couple of years back. I would prefer herringbone to Donegal, but at the price, I knew that I could not pass it up. Tom


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## darkmark (Feb 11, 2014)

My grail at this point is a 3/2 sack sport coat that fits me well. I guess these weren't popular with bigger guys


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

My "Grails" are vested suits in heavy and warm winter wool (NOT tweed; there are other winter fabrics besides tweed), and set of Tails from the 1930s.

-Quetzal


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

darkmark said:


> My grail at this point is a 3/2 sack sport coat that fits me well. I guess these weren't popular with bigger guys


Amen, brother. If you find some 50L sack suits or SC, I'm interested too!


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## tonylumpkin (Jun 12, 2007)

Having thrifted brand new, never worn Alden shell LHSs and John Lobbs (also NIB and with lasted trees), I don't think I can say I have a grail left.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Birkenstock Boston w/ 14kt gold hardware


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## WillBarrett (Feb 18, 2012)

drlivingston said:


> I thrifted two pairs of Alden LHS from America Thrift in Centerpoint today... anything can happen.


Good grief. Shoes up my way are always awful, and my schedule just doesn't allow me to move around much.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

tonylumpkin said:


> Having thrifted brand new, never worn Alden shell LHSs and John Lobbs (also NIB and with lasted trees), I don't think I can say I have a grail left.


John Lobb's NIB? Wow. If there was a little old lady between me and NIB John Lobb's, I would knock her down to get to them. Ok, just kidding. I might not knock her down, but I would probably distract her by pointing the other direction and saying, "Hey look! it's Pat Sajak from Wheel of Fortune!"


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

WillBarrett said:


> Good grief. Shoes up my way are always awful, and my schedule just doesn't allow me to move around much.


Surely you jest! At one time, Gardendale was my go-to spot for shoes. I have pulled more high-quality Allen Edmonds out of that store than any of the other America's Thrift. After you came on the scene, I quit going to that store except maybe once every two or three months. I can't believe that the quality of the footwear in that location has plummeted so severely. What a shame.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Real reversible raincoat/topcoat with tan twill one side and charcoal herringbone wool on the other. Had one 40 years ago that was stolen from a coat room at a restaurant and have never seen one as nice since then.


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

My white whale would be a pair of Alden's unlined whiskey cordovan LHS, made for Brooks Brothers. While one can still purchase or get on a waiting list for standard whiskey LHS, the unlined version hasn't been available since that single run a few summers ago.


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

Blue/white 100% cotton seersucker 3/2 sack cut sport coat with patch & flap pockets in a size 45, possibly 46. Tried several places for the past two summers but still no luck. I just plain outgrew my 43 regular that I purchased from Max's Menswear. charleston before they went out of business.


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## Z.J.P (Jun 29, 2010)




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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Frankly, I really just want to be able to walk into a Brooks or JPress and order exactly what I want, and have it perfectly altered, without having to scrounge clearance items or bottom feed on Ebay.

A Read Wall suit would really answer the mail.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

tocqueville,

I have no idea of your budget constraints - and Lord knows we all have them - but if that is your passion, price out the one item you want the most - a suit, a coat, a sport coat - save up over time and, then, treat yourself to it.

Once you have saved, walk into BB or Press at the start of the season when the racks are full (all the new merchandise is lined up fresh and enticing - if it's fall, you can smell the new wool), make your choice based on desire not price (you've already addressed the budget issue) and, then, let the tailor alter it, come back, have it tweaked, come back and pick up your new suit, coat, sport coat. The salesman will put it in a new store garment back (I love when they zip it up and hand it to you, with a good hanger [sometimes you have to ask for a wood one, not always]), take it home and enjoy it.

It is a reasonable desire - I've been fortunate to be able to have done it a few times - and it is a nice experience. I'd love for you to have that. You're not asking to take a lear jet to Paris for lunch - I hope you can save and make it happen.

FF


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Remember--he said exactly as he wants, and perfectly altered. That can be tough, even when buying new. I've learned this through hard experience. A lot of Press jackets won't fit some people, including me. There is nothing that a tailor can do about it.



Fading Fast said:


> tocqueville,
> 
> I have no idea of your budget constraints - and Lord knows we all have them - but if that is your passion, price out the one item you want the most - a suit, a coat, a sport coat - save up over time and, then, treat yourself to it.
> 
> ...


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> Remember--he said exactly as he wants, and perfectly altered. That can be tough, even when buying new. I've learned this through hard experience. A lot of Press jackets won't fit some people, including me. There is nothing that a tailor can do about it.


Great point, which argues that he should do some reconnaissance first (brands, models, etc.) - nothing wrong with going in and trying on to learn what you like / what works for you and, then, buying later.


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

I would encourage everyone to find a local men's shop to buy from if they could, there's certainly more out there than Brooks and Press!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> Great point, which argues that he should do some reconnaissance first (brands, models, etc.) - nothing wrong with going in and trying on to learn what you like / what works for you and, then, buying later.


Your original point is a good one, though. I try to buy a new suit each summer from O'Connell's, but when they go on clearance. I'm also more prone to splurge than I once was if the price is right, most recently on a pair of Prince Albert slippers that I picked up new on sale for a good, but still not cheap, price. This said, I just couldn't fork out $2,400 for a new Golden Fleece suit. Or $200-plus for a Shetland sweater, or $200 for a tie. And if I spent $1,200 on an 1818 suit instead of twice that for the Golden Fleece, I'd be thinking that I'd rather have a secondhand GF for $100 or so.

That's part of why I think that we should be defining "grail" by rarity instead of price tag. Clothes are like motorcycles, or record albums. You will never, ever be satisfied--as soon as you get what you think you really, really need, something else comes up almost immediately, and all it takes to scratch that itch is money.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

ThePopinjay said:


> I would encourage everyone to find a local men's shop to buy from if they could, there's certainly more out there than Brooks and Press!


There are no local men's shops anymore unless you live in Buffalo.


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

32rollandrock said:


> There are no local men's shops anymore unless you live in Buffalo.


I hope you know that's not true.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

ThePopinjay said:


> I hope you know that's not true.


Is to.


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

32rollandrock said:


> Is to.


I guess you're just baiting me at this point, but in Ohio alone there's Hunt Club in Cincinnati, Don Nash in Mansfield, Neils in Toledo, Cuffs in Chagrin Falls, I'm sure there has to be one or two in Columbus and Cleveland.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

ThePopinjay said:


> I guess you're just baiting me at this point, but in Ohio alone there's Hunt Club in Cincinnati, Don Nash in Mansfield, Neils in Toledo, Cuffs in Chagrin Falls, I'm sure there has to be one or two in Columbus and Cleveland.


Just let him believe whatever he erroneously wants to believe.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

ThePopinjay said:


> I would encourage everyone to find a local men's shop to buy from if they could, there's certainly more out there than Brooks and Press!


In Wichita (a city of about 400,000 and 650,000 in the metropolitan area), we have neither a Brooks Brothers nor a J. Press. We used to have some really fantastic local shops (Henry's and Bricks). Now we only have Johnston's Clothiers. Johnston's is nice. They advertise as having the following brands: Robert Graham, Tommy Bahama, HSM, Hugo Boss, Samuelsohn, Coppley, Baroni, and others. Some of those are certainly not trad. But, it's a nice store.

Our local mall does have a Von Maur which contains a Brooks Brothers section. But, it's pretty small.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

gamma68 said:


> Just let him believe whatever he erroneously wants to believe.


Really? If you really want to go there, I can. Let me know.

Addendum: And another thing, my friend. What's up with you visiting my page? I thought you'd put me on ignore and vowed never to have anything to do with me ever again. Ah, well. It was good while it lasted.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

ThePopinjay said:


> I guess you're just baiting me at this point, but in Ohio alone there's Hunt Club in Cincinnati, Don Nash in Mansfield, Neils in Toledo, Cuffs in Chagrin Falls, I'm sure there has to be one or two in Columbus and Cleveland.


I was jesting, but only in part. There are men's shops in a few towns around here, but I wouldn't patronize them. Austin Reed, low tier Ralph Lauren, Johnston-Murphy--it's all pretty much crap, more or less. Not familiar with the scene in Ohio, but several of the cities you speak of are fairly large, so you have to consider that. Used to be, there were quality men's shops in most any Midwestern town of any significant size (I know this via thrift stores and the old labels I find).


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

32rollandrock said:


> I was jesting, but only in part. There are men's shops in a few towns around here, but I wouldn't patronize them. Austin Reed, low tier Ralph Lauren, Johnston-Murphy--it's all pretty much crap, more or less. Not familiar with the scene in Ohio, but several of the cities you speak of are fairly large, so you have to consider that. Used to be, there were quality men's shops in most any Midwestern town of any significant size (I know this via thrift stores and the old labels I find).


Yes, that is very true.I come across quite a few labels as well. While I worked at Don Nash Limited (and we certainly didn't have crap, Southwick, Breuer, Polo, Samuelsohn, Alden, Talbott, Hertling, etc.) there used to be Komito's and Goldsmith's and O'Neil's, which are now all long gone. All those stores for an area of only about 200,000 people, now it can barely support the one. Quite sad, really.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

My grail is an online forum where "ignoring" a member's posts will block them entirely from my screen, even when another member responds to the ignored party.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

gamma68 said:


> My grail is an online forum where "ignoring" a member's posts will block them entirely from my screen, even when another member responds to the ignored party.


Then maybe you should leave this forum and find another. Don't let the door...

And quit visiting my member page while you're at it. You seem to be confused about what you really want.


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

gr8w8er said:


> frame of reference: Buffalo has a population of just under 300,000. By which I mean to say, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if O'Connell's went that same way.


True, but their customer base is certainly way beyond Buffalo, and with such a nice website I think they'll be fine. They seem to have adapted and stayed relevant in a way a lot of better men's stores didn't.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

gr8w8er said:


> frame of reference: Buffalo has a population of just under 300,000. By which I mean to say, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if O'Connell's went that same way.


My guess is O'Connell's has fairly robust Internet sales which has helped it outlive other small menswear shops.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

^Definitely. Here's a good article that someone posted earlier this year:


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

mjo_1 said:


> ^Definitely. Here's a good article that someone posted earlier this year:


. 
They have, in my opinion, beaten J. Press at Press' game. They have better stuff. They have more variety. It costs more, but that's not a factor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if O'Connell's outlasts JP.


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## Allen Dreadmon (Nov 8, 2014)

Being in Canada, these stories of thrifted Alden LHS and George Nelson desks are just folk-lore.


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## jimw (May 4, 2009)

Just keep on thrifting, Allen - keep on thriftin'. Today, at my local GW, there was an unworn BB glen plaid jacket and a beautiful, half-lined Samuelsohn with natural shoulders, both side-by-side. The BB is 44r, and though its too small, for the $10.25 I spent, I figure it will find a good home. Last year, I found a pair of domestic Florsheim brogues in black pebble-grain: $4. It just takes some persistence, and remember that many for the high-end trad garments are made by Canadian companies - Coppley, Samuelsohn, Cohn, etc. They're out there, just not as 'in your face'.



Allen Dreadmon said:


> Being in Canada, these stories of thrifted Alden LHS and George Nelson desks are just folk-lore.


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