# Back from Georgia



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Back from Georgia


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Which one??


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

The country. While we were having our UN-Nato disaster response exercise in the foothills, elsewhere more US Nato troops were on manouveres with the Georgian army & all the while the Russians were holding an exercise across the border. Obviously, that's me in the Swedish uniform. 
https://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/James_de_B/Georgia2012with773CST.jpg


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Gee, why would a chemical warfare company need to be there??


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

They aren't. They're a CST (Civilian Support Team) which doesn't even carry weapons. Most of them have scientific educations. US Army CST's as the name indicates support the civilian authorities in time of disaster. They analyze soil and water samples and can provide CBRN decontamination. In Germany they have a "live" role supporting the German civil authorities who can request them in the event of major emergencies.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I was confused by their guidon and cammo!!


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Oh, don't get me wrong, they're all soldiers from various other regiments and units, for example Tim Butler holding the guidon is Infantry, the old guy with the glasses DiFillipo is Cavalry and a few are Airborne. It's just that the 3 year posting to a CST means unarmed service supporting civilian agencies.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Well if I was confused, the Russians may have been too. Provoking an international incident??

I don't suppose you bought any cool clothes eh??


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

No, our UN-Nato Cimic EADRCC exercise and the actual military exercise (US and Georgian troops) were both far far away from the Russian border.

There is very little of anything "cool" to buy in Georgia. The main (expensive) street in Tibilisi only sold the same expensive western sports stuff you find everywhere else Adidas, Puma etc. Suits and jackets of any quality were not seen in shops or on the local people.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Howdy, Sideburns...


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Gee, why would a chemical warfare company need to be there??


To defend against their use.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Orsini said:


> Howdy, Sideburns...


Yea, I've always had long sideburns, the old skinhead in me just won't die 

Here's a close up picture for you of those sideburns!

The Butler cousins

XO J. Butler 
SFC T. Butler

https://i471.photobucket.com/albums... exercise Georgia Sept 2012/ButlerCousins.jpg


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

https://www.natochannel.tv/?sig=04cabde15d6s

This is the official Nato TV newsreel of the exercise. Yours truly speaking at 2.09, advising the role-playing journalists.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Yea, I've always had long sideburns, the old skinhead in me just won't die
> 
> Here's a close up picture for you of those sideburns!
> 
> ...


It is perhaps worth mentioning that a British skinhead of the Earl's generation is a *very* different, and decidedly more commendable, creature than the skinhead of modern American culture.


----------



## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

More skaa music than racist nutbag you mean? 

Good point...


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Shaver said:


> It is perhaps worth mentioning that a British skinhead of the Earl's generation is a *very* different, and decidedly more commendable, creature than the skinhead of modern American culture.


Thank you. I should of course have made that clear myself. I keep forgetting about those horrible racist oiks that hijacked the Skinhead style in the late 70s.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Bjorn said:


> More skaa music than racist nutbag you mean?
> 
> Good point...


Yes, exactly.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Thank you. I should of course have made that clear myself. I keep forgetting about those horrible racist oiks that hijacked the Skinhead style in the late 70s.


a loathsome maneuver which is quite starkly illustrated by the remarkable movie 'This Is England'.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Shaver said:


> a loathsome maneuver which is quite starkly illustrated by the remarkable movie 'This Is England'.


Very true. However, Shane Meadows' experiences in 83 shown in his film through the eyes of Shaun with the NF appealing to more and more skinheads has a touch of rose-tinted spectacles to it as this had already happened close to 10 years earlier, something I experienced myself as a skinhead in 74. On the football terraces at Chelsea and West Ham and on the streets the NF had already affected a massive recruiting of skinheads by about 1975-76. I remember from about 77 to 79 gangs of traditional skinheads fighting against Nazi boneheads. The Specials, Madness regularly witnessed opposing gangs of skinheads fighting. And this was what brought about the Rock Against Racism gigs.

I went to school in Chelsea with several black kids and in our gang in Notting Hill we had some black kids. But the threat from the NF and the BM in the mid 70s put everyone on edge.

Unfortunately, the ostensibly left-wing punk movement actually made matters worse because its extreme behaviour and lyrics and ironic use of Nazi symbology appealed to lots of previous skinheads now nazi boneheads who were attracted to street punk from about 79 onwards. And of course nazi Oi! groups like Screwdriver & other *********** morons catered for this new breed of nazis.

It wasn't until about the late 80s that traditional skinheads in Europe could try to regain their street culture. By 83, I'd already been in and out of the RAF & had joined the Met Police in July 83. And I can tell you that on the streets of London in 83 it was rare to see a proper skinhead. Maybe the midlands or the north portrayed in the film was different.

However, as you know, the word skinhead is still unfortunately tainted from its association with nazi boneheads.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Very true. However, Shane Meadows' experiences in 83 shown in his film through the eyes of Shaun with the NF appealing to more and more skinheads has a touch of rose-tinted spectacles to it as this had already happened close to 10 years earlier, something I experienced myself as a skinhead in 74. On the football terraces at Chelsea and West Ham and on the streets the NF had already affected a massive recruiting of skinheads by about 1975-76. I remember from about 77 to 79 gangs of traditional skinheads fighting against Nazi boneheads. The Specials, Madness regularly witnessed opposing gangs of skinheads fighting. And this was what brought about the Rock Against Racism gigs.
> 
> I went to school in Chelsea with several black kids and in our gang in Notting Hill we had some black kids. But the threat from the NF and the BM in the mid 70s put everyone on edge.
> 
> ...


ah, I had believed that the movie was set in 1981 (just because that is the most recent release date of any of the music in the soundtrack) but upon checking discover it is meant to be 1983. Hmmm that is a little late, even by Northern standards. 1981 would correlate with my experience, in Leeds at least. In those far off pre-internet days youth fashion evolved more slowly up North and the Nazi taint was just beginning to be felt in 79/80.

Either way a great shame really that such a musically diverse and well dressed youth culture was overtaken by lager louts in skin tight jeans, clip on braces, union jack t-shirts and 18 hole cherry red dockers.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Shaver said:


> In those far off pre-internet days youth fashion evolved more slowly up North


You're telling me! The first time I hit Darlington on a Saturday in the summer of 1980, while posted at RAF Catterick, I thought I'd been timewarped back to 74, it was all long hair, flares and Afghans  Here we were 4 young RAF lads in modern checked shirts, jeans and disco clothes but it was US that looked like the freaks amongst all the hippy youngsters of Darlington. 

As for the film, you'll remember that Shaun is mourning the loss of his Army dad during the Falklands, which was as you know spring 82.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> You're telling me! The first time I hit Darlington on a Saturday in the summer of 1980, while posted at RAF Catterick, I thought I'd been timewarped back to 74, it was all long hair, flares and Afghans  Here we were 4 young RAF lads in modern checked shirts, jeans and disco clothes but it was US that looked like the freaks amongst all the hippy youngsters of Darlington.
> 
> As for the film, you'll remember that Shaun is mourning the loss of his Army dad during the Falklands, which was as you know spring 82.


hee hee the North East was even further behind than anywhere! There's still parts of Durham that are like the seventies today. :biggrin:

To be honest I had neglected to fix the movie by the date of the Falklands conflict - although if you were serving in the RAF at the time then the year probably stuck in your mind a little more than mine, eh? Did you see action in the South Atlantic at all?


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

What did you see in Georgia?


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Howard said:


> What did you see in Georgia?


Poverty of the same level that I saw in shanty towns in South Africa when I was there on a Swedish govt job in 2009.

Brand new buildings built beside the shells of 1800s buildings, and both still being
lived in.

Beautiful, beautiful women.

Awful food.

Fantastic, breathtaking landscapes.

No agriculture at all. There's no fresh milk in Georgia for example.

Lots of beautiful Orthodox churches

Great folk and sacred music.

A very open friendly Christian society with people dressing how they want and saying what they want. Very West-friendly, hence the presence of all us Nato and Nato PFP types there for a couple of weeks.

Warm, kind, helpful people that can't do enough for you.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Shaver said:


> Did you see action in the South Atlantic at all?


No. We (RAF Regiment Airborne) along with more Paras, Marines and other specialist infantry units were on standby in the Second Wave for about 3 weeks until it was realised a seocnd wave wouldn't be necessary, then we were stood down, because it was as you know only about a 10 week actual battle.

I was speaking to some American soldiers about this the other week and only soldiers understand the relief of not having gone to war while at the same time feeling the disappointment of not going to war to do what one was trained for.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> No. We (RAF Regiment Airborne) along with more Paras, Marines and other specialist infantry units were on standby in the Second Wave for about 3 weeks until it was realised a seocnd wave wouldn't be necessary, then we were stood down, because it was as you know only about a 10 week actual battle.
> 
> I was speaking to some American soldiers about this the other week and only soldiers understand the relief of not having gone to war while at the same time feeling the disappointment of not going to war to do what one was trained for.


I believe that I can appreciate that dichotomy of purpose to a degree.

Of all the military engagements that England has undertaken, this last hundred years or so, the Falklands conflict is the least admirable unfortunately - and no disrespect to the bravery of the servicemen involved but rather scorn for the politicians (Hello Mrs. T) who escalated the situation merely to serve their personal and political ambition.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Shaver said:


> Ibut rather scorn for the politicians (Hello Mrs. T) who escalated the situation merely to serve their personal and political ambition.


I'm in total agreement with you there. It boosted her popularity beyond measure as she knew it would from day one.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I'm in total agreement with you there. It boosted her popularity beyond measure as she knew it would from day one.


You may be interested in this Earl, I am rather a fan of the RAF, most especially the heroic achievements of WWII. The Lancaster crews and the Battle of Britain pilots too.

The recent completion of the Bomber Command memorial was a very special event. One of the programmes broadcast by the BBC to commemorate the unveiling interviewed several old chaps. One, when asked about the Dresden bombings and if he felt regret replied tersely 'Bad Luck. They shouldn't have started it.'

On the radio, just the other day, I listened attentively to a old pilot being interviewed and describing his flight, in a Hurricane, towards the black cloud of a thousand German bombers. His matter of fact attitude towards his palpable bravery coupled with his embarrasment when the interviewer read to him the praise and gratitude that listeners had submitted to the programme brought a tear to my eye.

Those old boys are the reason that you and I - and probably the whole world- do not now speak German (other than by choice) and we remain forever in their debt.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Have you ever been to RAF Duxford? I'm sure you have, but if not, I can recommend it, that said, it was the early 90s when I was last there. Back then you could go up in a Spitfire & you could walk through the very first test Concorde fitted, as it was in service, with all sorts of measuring equipment. 

When I was in South Africa, I was very tempted to go up in a British Electric Lighting, though that flight was very expensive. 

I used to visit the RAF museum in Hendon, especially when I was across the road from it at Hendon Police College doing my training.


----------

