# sunglasses for jag f-type coupe?



## random512 (Jul 1, 2012)

Hello, I need some new sunglasses to wear in my new Jaguar F-Type coupe. Any suggestions?


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## Skyjumper (Apr 27, 2014)

random512 said:


> Hello, I need some new sunglasses to wear in my new Jaguar F-Type coupe. Any suggestions?


Seriously???

On the off chance this is not a joke...


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Kirkland sunglasses are well-reviewed and seem to be an excellent value. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

random512 said:


> Hello, I need some new sunglasses to wear in my new Jaguar F-Type coupe. Any suggestions?


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Would be perfect.

If it was a convertible, you could stick an old golf bag in the back to go along with the look!


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## Piqué (Apr 10, 2014)

:confused2:


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

I'm not sure why you'd need particular sunglasses in a coupe. Any sort of sunglasses with good eye protection and visibility would be fine. Certain convertibles present challenges...


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

I have always liked Hobie. www.hobiepolarized.com


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

pleasehelp said:


> I'm not sure why you'd need particular sunglasses in a coupe.


You don't. It's OP's passive-aggressive way to let us know that he got a new car.


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## Skyjumper (Apr 27, 2014)

smmrfld said:


> You don't. It's OP's passive-aggressive way to let us know that he got a new car.


Exactly.


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## musicmax (Mar 13, 2012)

random512 said:


> Hello, I need some new sunglasses to wear in my new Jaguar F-Type coupe. Any suggestions?


Something with clear prescription lenses. Jags spend more time in the shop than on the road.


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## jm22 (Apr 18, 2013)

musicmax said:


> Something with clear prescription lenses. Jags spend more time in the shop than on the road.


I was specifically warned that these new models are having transmission issues as well. Salesman kinda told me to not buy a jaguar, seemed odd.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

random512 said:


> Hello, I need some new sunglasses to wear in my new Jaguar F-Type coupe. Any suggestions?


I don't think the shades I favor when taking my Bugatti out for a spin would be appropriate as a recommendation, so I'll abstain from providing any advice here.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Along similar lines, what kind of Ferrari should I get to go with my new driving mocs?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

My advice would be to buy very cheap sunglasses. You need to save your money for towing expenses and repair bills. A better question would be, "What type of athletic shoes should I purchase for when my Jaguar breaks down and I have to walk?"


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

LOL. so funny.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

You could try a pair of classic aviators.


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## Skyjumper (Apr 27, 2014)

SG_67 said:


> Along similar lines, what kind of Ferrari should I get to go with my new driving mocs?


An Aston Martin would be a more stylish choice in this case.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Skyjumper said:


> An Aston Martin would be a more stylish choice in this case.


Good call!


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Psh, driving yourself is so...pedestrian. 

Real highrollers are driven around in a chariot with a team of horses :teacha:

Edit: or, instead of buying a Jaguar car, they just buy a real jaguar and ride it around.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

The dealer should have some.
https://www.framesdirect.com/framesfc/Jaguar-lamapa-slb-l.html


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Tempest said:


> The dealer should have some.


I wouldn't buy Jaguar sunglasses. After a few months, you will start having problems with them and you will need to have them repaired frequently.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

drlivingston said:


> I wouldn't buy Jaguar sunglasses. After a few months, you will start having problems with them and you will need to have them repaired frequently.


Maybe, but I'd assume they are a rung above these:
https://www.rangerover-eyewear.com/


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

random512 said:


> Hello, I need some new sunglasses to wear in my new Jaguar F-Type coupe. Any suggestions?


Whichever glasses you wore when you stole it, of course. Except oakleys.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

random512 said:


> Hello, I need some new sunglasses to wear in my new Jaguar F-Type coupe. Any suggestions?


Really??? First I have to to figure out what type of shirt to wear with my Patek Philippe.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

DocD said:


> Really??? First I have to to figure out what type of shirt to wear with my Patek Philippe.


I like it! :biggrin:


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

random512 said:


> Hello, I need some new sunglasses to wear in my new Jaguar F-Type coupe. Any suggestions?












The mustache and scarf are NOT optional. They are part of the ensemble.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

DocD said:


> Really??? First I have to to figure out what type of shirt to wear with my Patek Philippe.


This one:

https://m.usa.hermes.com/man/ready-to-wear/t-shirts/classic-cotton/rtw-men-tshirt-24327.html

of course, the only proper way to wear this shirt is to buy the white one and have your AmEx Black sticking out of the pocket. You can't be a real high roller unless you use credit cards as pocket squares.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

orange fury said:


> This one:
> 
> https://m.usa.hermes.com/man/ready-to-wear/t-shirts/classic-cotton/rtw-men-tshirt-24327.html


Thanks for that link. It was nice to see a pair of $470 swim shorts. Holy cow!


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> Thanks for that link. It was nice to see a pair of $470 swim shorts. Holy cow!


I reaaally want to see someone wearing the tshirt in public, just so I can ask them when Hanes started embroidering H's on their undershirts :devil:


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

Ones that hide the emptiness behind your eyes...

Seriously, though, am I the only one who thinks that a Jaguar with a V6 engine and no wood trim is not a Jaguar but a Ford (now Tata) with a leaper on the front? And yes, I realize that all but the XK are pretty much eliminated from contention.

This thread reminds me of the question I posed when talking to a colleague about the new(ish) Maserati Ghibli vs. the Quattroporte: What makes you a bigger dick; driving a $150,000 Maserati or driving a $75,000 Maserati?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

TimelesStyle said:


> Ones that hide the emptiness behind your eyes...
> 
> Seriously, though, am I the only one who thinks that a Jaguar with a V6 engine and no wood trim is not a Jaguar but a Ford (now Tata) with a leaper on the front? And yes, I realize that all but the XK are pretty much eliminated from contention.
> 
> This thread reminds me of the question I posed when talking to a colleague about the new(ish) Maserati Ghibli vs. the Quattroporte: What makes you a bigger dick; driving a $150,000 Maserati or driving a $75,000 Maserati?


I'm personally a big fan of the GranTurismo/GranCabrio. The Quattroporte and Ghibli are nice, but the 4-door aspect bothers me in the same way the Porsche Panamera and Ferrari FF does- all are companies I associate with 2 seat sports cars.

with all that said, I drive a Hyundai, so my room to talk is nonexistent :rolleyes2:


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

orange fury said:


> I'm personally a big fan of the GranTurismo/GranCabrio


They are exceptionally beautiful cars. Unfortunately, most exceptionally beautiful cars are driven by douche bags. Then again, this is being said by a guy who drives a Volvo, so there's always the possibility of SJF (subconscious jealousy factor) .

When it comes to Maserati, though, call me crazy, but I still like the pre-2002 Quattroporte, before Maserati began exporting to the US again, before the QP was on _Entourage, _back when the styling was a bit quirkier and the interior materials somewhat richer (loved the all-wood steering wheel and gear leaver; use of wood was rivaled only by pre-2005 Jaguars and Rolls Royces).


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ Maserati does not seem to hold it's value well either. The fact is that they're just TOO available. 

The only contemporary cars I know of that not only hold their value but also increase over time are Ferraris (not barring vintage cars of course).


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ Maserati does not seem to hold it's value well either. The fact is that they're just TOO available.
> 
> The only contemporary cars I know of that not only hold their value but also increase over time are Ferraris (not barring vintage cars of course).


I've (obviously) never been in the market for one, but my understanding is that Bentley is pretty awful at maintaining value as well.

per foreign (Italian) cars, I actually would love to own a Fiat 500. I used to rent them all the time for business trips, that car is actually ridiculously fun to drive lol.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ I'll be interested in seeing how Alfa Romeo does as it's being re-introduced.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ Maserati does not seem to hold it's value well either. The fact is that they're just TOO available.
> 
> The only contemporary cars I know of that not only hold their value but also increase over time are Ferraris (not barring vintage cars of course).


And the rarity was why, previously, they could get away with being less solid (from a reliability standpoint) than German rivals. Today, I'd rather save a lot of money and have an E550, save some money and have a 750i, or spend about the same for the all new S600.


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## Skyjumper (Apr 27, 2014)

Too bad I didn't keep the MG Midget I drove (when it was running) in college. By now, it might be worth almost what I put into it just to keep it going.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

orange fury said:


> I've (obviously) never been in the market for one, but my understanding is that Bentley is pretty awful at maintaining value as well.
> 
> per foreign (Italian) cars, I actually would love to own a Fiat 500. I used to rent them all the time for business trips, that car is actually ridiculously fun to drive lol.


Well, in my opinion, there are two Bentleys (well, maybe three):

1. The "Continental" series, which are, as far as I'm concerned, super expensive Audis. Everything about it screams "designed and engineered by Germans on a computer" (which is great for MB, BMW, Audi, etc; not for Bentley).

2. The "other" Bentleys (Brooklands, Mulsanne) which are the last cars to use old school Rolls Royce 6.75L V8s and maintain more of that classic Bentley styling.

3. The pre-VW Bentleys, which are the last "real" Bentleys (those made before the RR/B split). The original Continental coupe from the 90s, for example, is one of the most beautiful cars ever to hit the road.

Not sure which do and don't hold value. But RR and Bentley can both be found on the used market for under $30k for pre-1990 models (as long as they haven't become collector cars). New Bentleys definitely don't deserve to hold value, as they are no longer nearly as distinct and special as they once were (and don't get me started on RR...).


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

TimelesStyle said:


> And the rarity was why, previously, they could get away with being less solid (from a reliability standpoint) than German rivals. Today, I'd rather save a lot of money and have an E550, save some money and have a 750i, or spend about the same for the all new S600.


I have an E550 and it's a wonderful car. I can't speak for BMW but I'm very pleased with my car and would get another without hesitation. I do like the new S550 though.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I drove a Fiat 500 for a day and it took my chiropractor two weeks to work the kinks out of my back.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

TimelesStyle said:


> And the rarity was why, previously, they could get away with being less solid (from a reliability standpoint) than German rivals. Today, I'd rather save a lot of money and have an E550, save some money and have a 750i, or spend about the same for the all new S600.


Im a big fan of Mercedes products because of testimonials from owners I know. A friend of mine (recently retired from a career dealing with engines and mechanics) will only buy Mercedes products- his showpiece is a gorgeous 1992 model imported from Germany with technology that other companies only started using several years later. Also, the wealthiest person I've ever known (the guy is a shareholder of a professional sports team) drives a S63 AMG 4matic as his regular vehicle. He could afford (and I believe has owned at one point or another) any of the marquee luxury brands (RR, Bentley, Maserati, et al), but likes his Mercedes. It's outside of my price range right now, but within the next 10 years or so I'd definitely like to start looking at something like the CLA.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

The S63 now comes with 4Matic? This was be very recent. Mercedes originally claimed it was reluctant to outfit the AMGs with 4Matic is the engines produced too much torque. That's good to know as I've always liked AMG but it's somewhat impractical in Chicago with the weather (not to mention all the damned potholes!).


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

TimelesStyle said:


> Well, in my opinion, there are two Bentleys (well, maybe three):
> 
> 1. The "Continental" series, which are, as far as I'm concerned, super expensive Audis. Everything about it screams "designed and engineered by Germans on a computer" (which is great for MB, BMW, Audi, etc; not for Bentley).
> 
> ...


A guy in my office building drives a black RR Ghost- pretty car, but after seeing it most days, I would honestly spend the money elsewhere (a Ferrari 458 Italia comes to mind...). I had a friend whose dad won a late 70's RR Silver Shadow in a drawing as part of a benefit auction, I looked it up and realized I could snag one in the $19k-$30k range. I was tempted (just so I could say I drive a Rolls), but I don't even want to know what maintenance costs would be.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Given the choice, Mercedes would be my pick. I have owned a couple of pre-loved models but a few years ago, I was able to ride (unfortunately, not drive) in a 2008 Mercedes SLR McLaren roadster. It ruined me from anything else claiming to be high performance. He let me drive his BMW M6 Gran Coupe for several weeks and that was the closest thing to performance luxury perfection that I can imagine. My poor little beater just doesn't cut the mustard any more.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

orange fury said:


> A guy in my office building drives a black RR Ghost- pretty car, but after seeing it most days, I would honestly spend the money elsewhere (a Ferrari 458 Italia comes to mind...). I had a friend whose dad won a late 70's RR Silver Shadow in a drawing as part of a benefit auction, I looked it up and realized I could snag one in the $19k-$30k range. I was tempted (just so I could say I drive a Rolls), but I don't even want to know what maintenance costs would be.


That's the thing about truly exotic cars. I don't think of MB as something exotic. But a RR? Even purchased at such a price, I can't imagine what something like an oil change would end up costing. Not to mention actual repairs.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> The S63 now comes with 4Matic? This was be very recent. Mercedes originally claimed it was reluctant to outfit the AMGs with 4Matic is the engines produced too much torque. That's good to know as I've always liked AMG but it's somewhat impractical in Chicago with the weather (not to mention all the damned potholes!).


You are absolutely correct, and I feel dumb lol. He had a '12 S63 AMG, I don't know why I was thinking 4matic. After looking around online though, they did come out with a S63 AMG 4matic in November '13


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

TimelesStyle said:


> Seriously, though, am I the only one who thinks that a Jaguar with a V6 engine and no wood trim is not a Jaguar but a Ford (now Tata) with a leaper on the front?


I dunno. I've never been a fan of Jaguars as driving automobiles (they're always lovely to look at), but the XF is a terrific sedan that handles great and rides very nicely also. I don't know whether Tata or Ford ownership is responsible for the improved driving experience, but it beat the heck out of the XJ I test-drove the last time I went car shopping back in 2005.

Had I been able to find a used XF in my price range I'd have gotten one last year, but ended up with a Cadillac instead. Very happy with the decision.

How far off-topic can we get here? :tongue2:


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

orange fury said:


> Im a big fan of Mercedes products because of testimonials from owners I know. A friend of mine (recently retired from a career dealing with engines and mechanics) will only buy Mercedes products- his showpiece is a gorgeous 1992 model imported from Germany with technology that other companies only started using several years later. Also, the wealthiest person I've ever known (the guy is a shareholder of a professional sports team) drives a S63 AMG 4matic as his regular vehicle. He could afford (and I believe has owned at one point or another) any of the marquee luxury brands (RR, Bentley, Maserati, et al), but likes his Mercedes. It's outside of my price range right now, but within the next 10 years or so I'd definitely like to start looking at something like the CLA.


I used to drive German cars. Used to. They used to be great, now they are built to a price and resting on reputations that should have imploded a decade ago. The amazing depreciation of these cars proves that the market is never wrong.

If M-B cars still have that scary disconnected feel, than they are actually behind the Toyota Camry which recently fixed that.

The CLA? You know that's a front-driver, right? But I do see why one would want to avoid an out-of-warranty German car at all costs.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

MaxBuck said:


> How far off-topic can we get here? :tongue2:


This is far more interesting than what sunglasses to wear with a new Jag.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

SG_67 said:


> This is far more interesting than what sunglasses to wear with a new Jag.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

MaxBuck said:


> I dunno. I've never been a fan of Jaguars as driving automobiles (they're always lovely to look at), but the XF is a terrific sedan that handles great and rides very nicely also. I don't know whether Tata or Ford ownership is responsible for the improved driving experience, but it beat the heck out of the XJ I test-drove the last time I went car shopping back in 2005.
> 
> Had I been able to find a used XF in my price range I'd have gotten one last year, but ended up with a Cadillac instead. Very happy with the decision.
> 
> How far off-topic can we get here? :tongue2:


i like the way Jags look (especially the XK), but my distaste for Jaguar comes from when I used to work for an Enterprise Rent-a-Car that serviced a Jaguar/Range Rover dealership. We had a customer come in that had bought a brand new Jag (~10 miles on it), drove it home, and it wouldn't start the next day. When they towed it back to the dealership, all of the electronics in the entire car were fried for no reason. It was bad enough they just handed him the keys to another one and traded him. 2 weeks later, he was renting a car from us for the exact same issue.

He ended up with a BMW after that experience lol.

what Cadillac? I'm a big fan of the CTS-V and the ATS.



SG_67 said:


> This is far more interesting than what sunglasses to wear with a new Jag.


+1


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

orange fury said:


> I'm personally a big fan of the GranTurismo/GranCabrio. The Quattroporte and Ghibli are nice, but the 4-door aspect bothers me in the same way the Porsche Panamera and Ferrari FF does- all are companies I associate with 2 seat sports cars.
> 
> with all that said, I drive a Hyundai, so my room to talk is nonexistent :rolleyes2:


At least Maserati have a bit of history with 4-door cars. They've been making the Quattroporte in various guises since sometime in the sixties.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

MaxBuck said:


> I dunno. I've never been a fan of Jaguars as driving automobiles (they're always lovely to look at), but the XF is a terrific sedan that handles great and rides very nicely also. I don't know whether Tata or Ford ownership is responsible for the improved driving experience, but it beat the heck out of the XJ I test-drove the last time I went car shopping back in 2005.
> 
> Had I been able to find a used XF in my price range I'd have gotten one last year, but ended up with a Cadillac instead. Very happy with the decision.
> 
> How far off-topic can we get here? :tongue2:


I believe that all of the current Jaguars are of Ford design. If you think about how long it takes to get from drawing board to production (what is it, about 7 years, give or take?) then it's not possible to be seeing Tata-inspired Jags yet. Plus to me the styling is distinctly Ford; the similarities between the current XJ and the Ford Fusion are uncanny. Don't get me wrong, I love the Fusion, but a Jaguar was always supposed to be about style first, drivability second, reliability a distant third.

To me the pinnacle of Jaguars came in the mid-90s, when the cars were still largely Jaguar-designed, but had their reliability substantially improved under Ford ownership. The mid-90s saw the last of the Jaguar V12s and the introduction of the original XK8 (similar to today's, but with subtle details that made it much more elegant, IMO). It was also when Jaguar retired the I6 engines (not a big deal when being replaced by a V8) but the S-Type set a lousy precedent of V6 engines in Jags.

Now only BMW and Volvo seem to offer a straight six, with the latter probably on the way out (currently only available on AWD models).


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ I wonder just how much Tata motors is going to interfere with the styling and production. It's an iconic brand and I can't imagine they purchased them with an eye on changing the status of the brand. 

I think the current lot of Jags are quite nice to look at. I can't attest to their reliability however. As for the Jags of the 90's, I think the x-type was a clear example of Ford's influence and trying to offer a truly "entry level" Jag. The V6 S-type never really made sense to me either. As mentioned above, I've always thought of Jaguar as a very stylish brand with a racing and performance heritage.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Do you guys remember the 1989-1990 Chrysler TC, Lee Iococca's project with Maserati?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Yes! Wasn't the body designed by Mas?

It's weird how European cars come and go here in the states. Maserati was available, then it wasn't and then it was again. The same for Fiat, Alfa Romeo as well as certain British autos.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Jags are for wussies. Real men straddle a Hog and wear leather when they ride! Randolf Engineering Aviators make a great pair of sunglasses for us wannabe one percenters. LOL.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

eagle2250 said:


> Jags are for wussies. Real men straddle a Hog and wear leather when they ride! Randolf Engineering Aviators make a great pair of sunglasses for us wannabe one percenters. LOL.


Thanks. Now I have an image of a ******* wearing nothing but a$$less chaps and a leather vest, f*cking a squealing pig.

Oh, but the picture becomes much less offensive when you put a pair of aviators on the pig. Go figure.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

I wonder how many pages of replies the OP was hoping to get when he trolled his post for all the easy marks out there. You have played right into his hands.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ I wonder just how much Tata motors is going to interfere with the styling and production. It's an iconic brand and I can't imagine they purchased them with an eye on changing the status of the brand.
> 
> I think the current lot of Jags are quite nice to look at. I can't attest to their reliability however. As for the Jags of the 90's, I think the x-type was a clear example of Ford's influence and trying to offer a truly "entry level" Jag. The V6 S-type never really made sense to me either. As mentioned above, I've always thought of Jaguar as a very stylish brand with a racing and performance heritage.


I like the new F type, and call me crazy, but I still love the look of the XJ6. First time I saw one was a champagne colored one when I was on a field trip in middle school, for some reason that always stuck with me.

also, does anyone remember the XJ220? Fastest production car in the world until McLaren crashed the party


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> Yes! Wasn't the body designed by Mas?
> 
> It's weird how European cars come and go here in the states. Maserati was available, then it wasn't and then it was again. The same for Fiat, Alfa Romeo as well as certain British autos.


Some of it probably had to do with production numbers. Maserati, for example, was until recently a VERY low production car. Also, perhaps emissions standards had something to do with it and the Europe cars didn't meet them here (that is, believe it or not, why '96 was the last V12 Jaguar in the US but they didn't disappear from Europe until '97).


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

FLCracka said:


> I wonder how many pages of replies the OP was hoping to get when he trolled his post for all the easy marks out there. You have played right into his hands.


Right, but this thread was pretty much hijacked the minute people started responding. I mean, a page ago I was posting a link to a $345 t-shirt and talking about riding chariots lol


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ I wonder just how much Tata motors is going to interfere with the styling and production. It's an iconic brand and I can't imagine they purchased them with an eye on changing the status of the brand.
> 
> I think the current lot of Jags are quite nice to look at. I can't attest to their reliability however. As for the Jags of the 90's, I think the x-type was a clear example of Ford's influence and trying to offer a truly "entry level" Jag. The V6 S-type never really made sense to me either. As mentioned above, I've always thought of Jaguar as a very stylish brand with a racing and performance heritage.


If I had to guess, I would guess that the brand will become more "British" once again. India has a lot of British influence and the group purchased both Jaguar and Land Rover.

I saw several stages of Ford-ification at Jaguar:

Stage 1: Improved processes and reliability with Jaguar-designed cars

Stage 2: The first examples of Ford tweaking the Jaguar designs, mostly in the form of cost-cutting (and it showed!)

Stage 3: Fully Ford-designed Jags (what we're seeing now)

They may be nice cars now, but they aren't Jaguars. Jaguars, by definition, should have more wood than Ron Jeremy, a J-gate shifter for the automatic cars and should look like they were lovingly designed by artists instead of on computer screens.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

orange fury said:


> I like the new F type, and call me crazy, but I still love the look of the XJ6. First time I saw one was a champagne colored one when I was on a field trip in middle school, for some reason that always stuck with me.
> 
> also, does anyone remember the XJ220? Fastest production car in the world until McLaren crashed the party


My grandmother still drives a '96 XJ6. Owned it since new and refuses to give it up because there's no car on the road she likes better. My grandfather, OTOH, has traded in his car twice since then.

It's an absolutely beautiful car; dark green with light tan interior. I loved the XJ12 of the same vintage (back when only three sedans in the world used a twelve cylinder engine). However, I think my favorite Jaguar of all times was the original V8 XJR - same body style as the XJ6 but with a real monster under the hood.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

Oh, and one more thing: I think the F-type represented a huge missed opportunity: Had Ford only outfitted it with round head and tail lights, elongated chrome door handles and, most importantly by far, the swing-out trunk door (in addition to wood interior) this car might have been worthy successor to some of the E-types of old.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Let us not forget Ford's attempt in the mid-80's to bring their German versions to America. Thus, Merkur was born. I had a friend who owned a Merkur XR4Ti. I can still remember thinking that it was every bit as luxurious as an Audi or BMW.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> Let us not forget Ford's attempt in the mid-80's to bring their German versions to America. Thus, Merkur was born. I had a friend who owned a Merkur XR4Ti. I can still remember thinking that it was every bit as luxurious as an Audi or BMW.


Speaking of Audi, there was a showroom next to a wine bar I used to frequent that had a white R8 with carbon fiber accenting. Good heavens, I would own one of those in a heartbeat if the opportunity/funds became available.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> Let us not forget Ford's attempt in the mid-80's to bring their German versions to America. Thus, Merkur was born. I had a friend who owned a Merkur XR4Ti. I can still remember thinking that it was every bit as luxurious as an Audi or BMW.


Cadillac also tried this, with the Catera in the mid-to-late-90s. It was a rebadged Opel/Vauxhall Omega and sales here stunk. I believe a tiny part of it lives on, in that it is the source of the "C" in the "CTS" (seeing as the Seville was replaced by the STS and the DeVille by the DTS, with the "TS" for "touring sedan").


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

orange fury said:


> Right, but this thread was pretty much hijacked the minute people started responding. I mean, a page ago I was posting a link to a $345 t-shirt and talking about riding chariots lol


True enough!


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

TimelesStyle said:


> Ones that hide the emptiness behind your eyes...
> 
> Seriously, though, am I the only one who thinks that a Jaguar with a V6 engine and no wood trim is not a Jaguar but a Ford (now Tata) with a leaper on the front? And yes, I realize that all but the XK are pretty much eliminated from contention.
> 
> ...


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

DocD said:


> TimelesStyle said:
> 
> 
> > Ones that hide the emptiness behind your eyes...
> ...


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

TimelesStyle said:


> Cadillac also tried this, with the Catera in the mid-to-late-90s. It was a rebadged Opel/Vauxhall Omega and sales here stunk. I believe a tiny part of it lives on, in that it is the source of the "C" in the "CTS" (seeing as the Seville was replaced by the STS and the DeVille by the DTS, with the "TS" for "touring sedan").


The Catera was still light years ahead of the Cadillac Cimarron!


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## jm22 (Apr 18, 2013)

orange fury said:


> Speaking of Audi, there was a showroom next to a wine bar I used to frequent that had a white R8 with carbon fiber accenting. Good heavens, I would own one of those in a heartbeat if the opportunity/funds became available.


Took one for a test drive, it's a seriously amazing car. Was very impressed. I think the there's really anything that competes for size, speed, and comfort. I like it more than the S63 I drove, and it's AWD which is always a plus in the winter

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

jm22 said:


> Took one for a test drive, it's a seriously amazing car. Was very impressed. I think the there's really anything that competes for size, speed, and comfort. I like it more than the S63 I drove, and it's AWD which is always a plus in the winter
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I rode in one briefly but haven't driven one, it's become a long term goal for me though. The price range is pretty affordable too, if you look at the category it competes in (I'm obviously using "affordable" very loosely).


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ I'm willing to bet that a few years on you'll be able to find a pre owned one at a reasonable price.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ I'm willing to bet that a few years on you'll be able to find a pre owned one at a reasonable price.


I can trade in my Hyundai Sonata for it 

I do hope it avoids going the way of the Acura NSX, but Audi has made more of a concerted effort to break into the high end segment of the auto industry. The R8 seems like a Halo car that ended up being far more popular, based on the number I've seen on the road.

I've also always liked the TT, so that could be the midrange goal lol


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ Jeremy Clarkson of "Top Gear" says of the Audi TT that's it's the type of car best driven by a footballer's wife!

i don't like the NSX though I'm sure it's a fine car. There's just something very milk toast about Japanese sports cars. Just a bit too "Johnny Racer".


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

In that same vein, From an aesthetics standpoint, I can't understand the fascination people have with the Nissan Skyline GT-R, I can't imagine dropping $100k on one


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

That's basically the Z model, correct?


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

orange fury said:


> I'm personally a big fan of the GranTurismo/GranCabrio. The Quattroporte and Ghibli are nice, but the 4-door aspect bothers me in the same way the Porsche Panamera and Ferrari FF does- all are companies I associate with 2 seat sports cars.
> 
> with all that said, I drive a Hyundai, so my room to talk is nonexistent :rolleyes2:


Your room to talk, sir, is about as large as the one it would take to hold the global viewership of Top Gear.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

SG_67 said:


> ^ I'll be interested in seeing how Alfa Romeo does as it's being re-introduced.


You and me both, brother. I have found memories of the old Spiders.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

orange fury said:


> When they towed it back to the dealership, all of the electronics in the entire car were fried for no reason.


One of my favorite tales is the story of why the English drink warm beer.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

FLCracka said:


> I wonder how many pages of replies the OP was hoping to get when he trolled his post for all the easy marks out there. You have played right into his hands.


Well, I for one salute him. This is the most amusing thread I've seen here all day.

By the way, anyone know what ever happened to onlyseriousfeedbackplease?


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Gotta say my dream car would be one of those old, boxy Landrovers. Don't know why, there's just something about them. 


Sent from 1955 using 1.21 jigawatts.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Reuben said:


> Gotta say my dream car would be one of those old, boxy Landrovers. Don't know why, there's just something about them.


Agreed... that or a 1979 Mercedes Galandewagen


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> The Catera was still light years ahead of the Cadillac Cimarron!


Even Cadillac didn't consider the Cimarron a "real" Cadillac; IIRC it was sold as "Cimarron by Cadillac"


orange fury said:


> I can trade in my Hyundai Sonata for it
> 
> I do hope it avoids going the way of the Acura NSX, but Audi has made more of a concerted effort to break into the high end segment of the auto industry. The R8 seems like a Halo car that ended up being far more popular, based on the number I've seen on the road.
> 
> I've also always liked the TT, so that could be the midrange goal lol


I doubt it would go the way of the NSX. Part of the problem with the NSX was the fact that, at the time, other Acuras topped out at around $42k so the brand didn't have the same image as Audi, which makes cars up to $150k (and shares a parent company with Porsche, Lamborghini and Bentley).


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

This is a bizarre thread, but I'll throw in my two cents on some of the topics:

1) In my experience, Jaguars have struggled with reliability issues for their entire history. However, almost all cars are getting more reliable as a general matter. 

2) I think that focusing on performance specs when purchasing a car is a bit misguided as a practical matter. It's an arms race that you'll lose, and just because a car can perform certain ways when pushed to the extreme by an expert doesn't mean that you will get any benefits out of that. Focus on how you'll use the car and what makes sense to you. The one exception to this rule is braking performance. Note that I don't consider safety tests a performance spec, and I think it is a worthy thing to focus on.

3) Rather than being scared off from older cars based upon perceived repair costs, I would suggest speaking to a trusted mechanic about what is involved. Sometimes, it's not as bad as you might think.

4) Drive safely.

5) In my opinion, the most underrated features when looking at sports cars (unless you are so fortunate to have a stable full of cars) are: (i) visibility; (ii) comfort for the period you'll be in the car; (iii) whether it's situated in a way for you to enjoy it with your loved ones (unless you like spending time alone in it); and (iv) whether you actually enjoy driving it in a safe manner on public roads (unless it is a dedicated track car). When you put these features together, it might might a Jaguar look like a better bet than at first blush (although still not up my alley).


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## jm22 (Apr 18, 2013)

orange fury said:


> In that same vein, From an aesthetics standpoint, I can't understand the fascination people have with the Nissan Skyline GT-R, I can't imagine dropping $100k on one


It's the best diving car under $200k or so. I rented one for the day and was amazed. But it's a completely different animal than a daily driver. It's a race car that you can use on the road

Also one of the best performing cars currently made. Held the Nürburgring record for a short time too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

jm22 said:


> It's the best diving car under $200k or so. I rented one for the day and was amazed. But it's a completely different animal than a daily driver. It's a race car that you can use on the road
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


my comment was purely based on external aesthetics, I've never even sat in one, much less driven one. The ones I've seen on the road just remind me a bit of the tricked out Honda Civics I used to see. In terms of performance though, I'll eat crow- pass the hot sauce.

Based on your comment though, I definitely wouldn't turn down the opportunity to drive one :thumbs-up:


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Since this thread is already too far gone to be salvageable, speaking of cars/racing/horsepower/horse racing/nascar for rich people (as my brother in law calls it)...did anybody catch Belmont?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

orange fury said:


> Since this thread is already too far gone to be salvageable, speaking of cars/racing/horsepower/horse racing/nascar for rich people (as my brother in law calls it)...did anybody catch Belmont?


Nope... was thrifting during the running. I have zero interest watching all of those future shell cordovan donors run in circles.


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## sethblack (Sep 17, 2013)

I admit, whatever the reasons the OP has for starting it, this thread has been quite fun to read through. the first page is hilarious!



SG_67 said:


> ^ Jeremy Clarkson of "Top Gear" says of the Audi TT that's it's the type of car best driven by a footballer's wife!


Or an air stewardess. 



Acme said:


> Your room to talk, sir, is about as large as the one it would take to hold the global viewership of Top Gear.


:thumbs-up:


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Reuben said:


> Gotta say my dream car would be one of those old, boxy Landrovers. Don't know why, there's just something about them.
> 
> Sent from 1955 using 1.21 jigawatts.


Every Christmas I get the Orvis Catalogue and without failure, there's a restored vintage LR outfitted with all the safari gear imaginable. It's quite attractive actually and, in my opinion, the way an SUV should be; rugged, boxy and looking as though it could be rolled off a cliff and still drive away.

For that reason, I very much like the MB G series wagons.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

jm22 said:


> It's the best diving car under $200k or so. I rented one for the day and was amazed. But it's a completely different animal than a daily driver. It's a race car that you can use on the road
> 
> Also one of the best performing cars currently made. Held the Nürburgring record for a short time too.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The thing I don't like about Japanese sports cars is, for lack of a better term, the absence of any soul. They're highly sophisticated, I'm sure. But to look at them I'm not awed. There just isn't any attention to styling that at those price points, I consider just as important as performance.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> The thing I don't like about Japanese sports cars is, for lack of a better term, the absence of any soul. They're highly sophisticated, I'm sure. But *to look at them I'm not awed.* There just isn't any attention to styling that at those price points, I consider just as important as performance.


I understand what you're saying, but I can't imagine not being awed by the Lexus LFA.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

MaxBuck said:


> I understand what you're saying, but I can't imagine not being awed by the Lexus LFA.


It is a very unique looking car, but I guess it's just too edgy and too much. It has very sharp lines and looks like a car designed to go fast. It's not graceful.

I suppose much depends on a persons own appreciation of design. As much as I like performance, I also appreciate graceful styling.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> It is a very unique looking car, but I guess it's just too edgy and too much. It has very sharp lines and looks like a car designed to go fast. It's not graceful.
> 
> I suppose much depends on a persons own appreciation of design. As much as I like performance, I also appreciate graceful styling.


This. And this is entirely personal opinion/preference, but if I'm dropping $375k on a car, I'm buying a Ferrari F12 Berlinetta and keeping the change.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I don't care how semi-sexy it is, there is *ZERO *chance that I am dropping 400 grand on a freakin' Lexus!! There are waaaaaay too many other cars out there in that price range and below that would give me more thrills. If I am paying that much for a car, I could give a rip about resale value. It's all about the ego-boosting power and prestige. Take the McLaren MP4-12C. It has 20% more horsepower than the LFA for $150,000 less! I might even find an older model Saleen S7 or Lamborghini Aventador.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> I don't care how semi-sexy it is, there is *ZERO *chance that I am dropping 400 grand on a freakin' Lexus!! There are waaaaaay to many other cars out there in that price range and below that would give me more thrills. If I am paying that much for a car, I could give a rip about resale value. It's all about the ego-boosting power and prestige. Take the McLaren MP4-12C. It has 20% more horsepower than the LFA for $150,000 less! I might even find an older model Saleen S7 or Lamborghini Aventador.


my problem with Lexus is that I've always felt like its nothing more than a rebranded Toyota, which would make me want to go after a BMW or Mercedes in the same market segment. I used to give them grief for the fact that they even had a Toyota engine, but I realized that it's part of the reason you still see so many 90's model Lexus' on the road.

And +1 on the Aventador, a matte black one pulled up to valet parking at a wine bar I was sitting on the patio of a while back, it's hard to describe the sense of power emanating from that thing when the engine roars to life. That, and it looks like the freaking batmobile. The Gallardo it parked next to just looked inadequate in comparison lol


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ It makes it all the more unpalatable as in other parts of the world, and even in Japan, the same car sold as a Lexus is sold as a Toyota. This is the case with the GX, LX (basically a Toyota Land Cruiser which is an admirable off road vehicle in it's own right) as well as the IS models. 

The LF1 looks like a fun car but at that price point, my God! There are a host of super cars that would be just as much fun to drive and more pleasurable to the eye.


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## kravi (Feb 26, 2013)

orange fury said:


> my problem with Lexus is that I've always felt like its nothing more than a rebranded Toyota, which would make me want to go after a BMW or Mercedes in the same market segment. I used to give them grief for the fact that they even had a Toyota engine, but I realized that it's part of the reason you still see so many 90's model Lexus' on the road.
> 
> And +1 on the Aventador, a matte black one pulled up to valet parking at a wine bar I was sitting on the patio of a while back, it's hard to describe the sense of power emanating from that thing when the engine roars to life. That, and it looks like the freaking batmobile. The Gallardo it parked next to just looked inadequate in comparison lol


I agree on the Lexus. Just not a fan.

Now a 1965 - 1970 Ford Mustang has beautiful styling (even if it handles like a pig). Make it a Shelby and I'm in heaven!

--Me


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ It makes it all the more unpalatable as in other parts of the world, and even in Japan, the same car sold as a Lexus is sold as a Toyota. This is the case with the GX, LX (basically a Toyota Land Cruiser which is an admirable off road vehicle in it's own right) as well as the IS models.
> 
> The LF1 looks like a fun car but at that price point, my God! There are a host of super cars that would be just as much fun to drive and more pleasurable to the eye.


Actually, after thinking about it, you know what the Lexus LFA looks like? The Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ/Scion FR-S. Obviously different performance specs, but similar look for 12.5x less


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

DocD said:


> ...On a side note, I'm surprised at the lack of comments about Audis. I've had quite a few high end cars, and my favorite by far has been the Audi A5. M


Now that you mention it, the S5 (performance variant of the A5) is my own ride...









I still don't know what brand of sunglasses go with it (sorry OP!), but at least I had the correct passenger already picked out. :cool2:


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Many brands have offered models at far higher prices than their standard lineup with limited success. Acura--NSX, Volkswagen--Phaeton (Really? Who wants to pay a gas-guzzler tax on a VW?), Dodge--Viper (pretty good success but used market is loaded with them), Hyundai--Equus (I actually like this one. Up to 2011, they actually came with an iPad for a manual and maintenance scheduling.)


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

Reuben said:


> Gotta say my dream car would be one of those old, boxy Landrovers. Don't know why, there's just something about them.
> 
> Sent from 1955 using 1.21 jigawatts.


Not sure how old you're talking, but my two favorite Land Rovers of all time are:

Range Rover 4.6HSE (95-00, I think); absolutely loved the lines and I think it was the last Range Rover that Land Rover designed prior to the BMW acquisition. It had class and elegance and poise that I don't see in cars today. My favorite SUV design of all times.

Defender 110; the quintessential Land Rover. Never sold in the States to my knowledge (closes they ever got was Canada, I believe) but I never considered the 1990 and on US-bound Defenders (the 90 did make it here) to be "real" Land Rover Defenders (since they were only available with a gasoline V8 and automatic transmission).



MaxBuck said:


> I understand what you're saying, but I can't imagine not being awed by the Lexus LFA.





SG_67 said:


> It is a very unique looking car, but I guess it's just too edgy and too much. It has very sharp lines and looks like a car designed to go fast. It's not graceful.
> 
> I suppose much depends on a persons own appreciation of design. As much as I like performance, I also appreciate graceful styling.


So I will take this from a $400,000 analogy down to a $400 analogy (which makes it more real to me ). The Lexus is "sexy" in the way a newly designed phone or other electronic gadget is sexy. Yes, it has awesome technical and design elements, but there's no emotion attached to it. It's amazing at being what it is, but what it is is a large, powerful gadget. The Ferrari (or even Porsche) is like buying a $400 wallet. It's something beautifully handmade and it's a work of art, not science.



Grayson said:


> Now that you mention it, the S5 is my own ride...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful car; love the A/S5! Blows away the styling of any other comparably priced two-door.

As a total aside, I have to say, one of the small things I love about it (and other Audis) is that even the automatic versions still have a floor-mounted shift leaver that actually changes positions. For some reason the joystick versions BMW uses and the push-button/column-mounted leavers which other Germans have adopted sort of irk me.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

TimelesStyle said:


> ...one of the small things I love about it (and other Audis) is that even the automatic versions still have a floor-mounted shift leaver that actually changes positions. For some reason the joystick versions BMW uses and the push-button/column-mounted leavers which other Germans have adopted sort of irk me.


My S5 has the SA-tronic transmission - really an efficient 7-speed dual-clutch manual transmission with automatic ease-of-use. Lowering the windows (the better to hear the Rottweiler-like exhaust growl), putting it in "standard" mode, and playing it out with either the gear-shift or the paddle-shifters? Truly one of my life's joys.

Details for the true motorheads out there -


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> Many brands have offered models at far higher prices than their standard lineup with limited success. Acura--NSX, Volkswagen--Phaeton (Really? Who wants to pay a gas-guzzler tax on a VW?), Dodge--Viper (pretty good success but used market is loaded with them), Hyundai--Equus (I actually like this one. Up to 2011, they actually came with an iPad for a manual and maintenance scheduling.)


All of these cars are halo cars though- they'll sell a few, but they're deigned to bring people into the dealership where they'll buy something less expensive. To be fair though, the Equus is a pretty phenomenal vehicle, the ride is amazingly smooth. I've seen several reviews that compare it favorably to the Mercedes C-class


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Grayson said:


> Now that you mention it, the S5 (performance variant of the A5) is my own ride...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


THAT is a gorgeous vehicle! :thumbs-up:


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

orange fury said:


> All of these cars are halo cars though- they'll sell a few, but they're deigned to bring people into the dealership where they'll buy something less expensive. To be fair though, the Equus is a pretty phenomenal vehicle, the ride is amazingly smooth. I've seen several reviews that compare it favorably to the Mercedes C-class


Perhaps you are thinking of a different Hyundai or a different Mercedes? I would hope the Equus would compare favorably against the $32k C-class when it's going for $60k+.

The Viper also should have been a bigger success. I believe Dodge's mistake back in the 90s when the Viper was introduced was trying to pit it against super cars instead of its true rival, the Corvette. Had the Viper been a $40-50k car competing against the Chevy, I think its story would have been very different; at the time of introduction it was far more of a head-turner and the only V-10 on the market (other than the Ram).

FWIW, the Phaeton may not have done well here, but they are still sold in Europe so there must be some appeal. It seems like the ideal car for expat executives/diplomats/others with targets on their backs who live in or travel through dangerous areas in developing countries where there's a desire to maintain a low profile (which the VW logo helps with) but a need for a car large/powerful enough to lug around several tons of armor and still hightail it out of unwanted situations.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> It is a very unique looking car, but I guess it's just too edgy and too much. It has very sharp lines and looks like a car designed to go fast. It's not graceful.
> 
> I suppose much depends on a persons own appreciation of design. As much as I like performance, I also appreciate graceful styling.


I have no quarrel with those who don't like the styling of the Lexus LFA, as taste in these things is individual, but I think it's beautiful. Like a Lamborghini without the Cezanne-like misproportions.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

TimelesStyle said:


> N
> 
> As a total aside, I have to say, one of the small things I love about it (and other Audis) is that even the automatic versions still have a floor-mounted shift leaver that actually changes positions. For some reason the joystick versions BMW uses and the push-button/column-mounted leavers which other Germans have adopted sort of irk me.


I am not especially interested in expensive cars, so take my comments with a pinch of salt if you will, but as a further aside, I once had to visit the Audi factory at Ingolstadt (for work) and had the use of an A8 quatro during my stay there - I was quite impressed, especially with its capability over snow and icy roads at high speed. I find Audis generally far better than other German cars, both in design and quality of construction. I don't own an Audi but once had a BMW convertible. It had a fantastic engine but was hopelessly unreliable, it let me down so many times, sometimes locking me in so that the only way out was to open the roof and crawl - hardly dignified. Mercedes apparently are not all that reliable either, and I find them oddly uncomfortable cars - despite their often large proportions, their accommodation can be rather cramped for a tall man.

Mechanical reliability of course is the sum of many parts, not infrequently parts which - regardless of marque - are manufactured in completely out of the way places.

Jaguars are wonderful-looking cars but as others have mentioned, sometimes of suspect reliability. A friend was once rather badly let down in Scotland by his Jag - the engine more or less exploded.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

@TimelessStyle: you are correct, I just looked it up and the reviews compared it to the S class and BMW 7 series (none were saying it was necessarily better than either of those, but a good competitor at $20-$30k less).

Per the viper, when I worked for Enterprise, one of the dealerships we serviced was a dodge/Chrysler/jeep outfit, I asked a 20-year service tech one time about the viper, and he told me the number one complaint they received about the viper far and away was that at higher speeds, the car shook and rattled so much that drivers thought it was going to come apart. This is the original Viper though, I don't know about the new SRT.

Incidentally, I mentioned to this gentleman another time that I was looking at purchasing a Chrysler Crossfire (I loved the look), but he told me not to even bother with it unless I "had money to blow on consistently stupid repairs" lol.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

MaxBuck said:


> I have no quarrel with those who don't like the styling of the Lexus LFA, as taste in these things is individual, but I think it's beautiful. *Like a Lamborghini without the Cezanne-like misproportions*.


What a great visual!


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Since I am now a stay-at-home dad with seemingly way too much time to thrift, a buddy of mine conned me into taking his new Porsche Cayenne in for routine maintenance last week. The dealership didn't have any Boxsters or Cayman loaners left so I was put in a new Audi Q7 TDI Quattro diesel suv. It was one of the nicest suvs that I have had the pleasure to drive. It certainly was better (imho) than the new Cayenne. In previous years, I have owned a couple of Dodge 2500 series diesel trucks. You could hear me coming from a mile away. If I pulled up to a fast-food drive through, they always made me shut off my engine. However, Audi's diesel technology is so advanced that you would never know that you were driving a diesel (except for the vehicle's badging and the lower operating rpms.)


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ How does it sound in the winter when starting?


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> Since I am now a stay-at-home dad with seemingly way too much time to thrift, a buddy of mine conned me into taking his new Porsche Cayenne in for routine maintenance last week. The dealership didn't have any Boxsters or Cayman loaners left so I was put in a new Audi Q7 TDI Quattro diesel suv. It was one of the nicest suvs that I have had the pleasure to drive. It certainly was better (imho) than the new Cayenne. In previous years, I have owned a couple of Dodge 2500 series diesel trucks. You could hear me coming from a mile away. If I pulled up to a fast-food drive through, they always made me shut off my engine. However, Audi's diesel technology is so advanced that you would never know that you were driving a diesel (except for the vehicle's badging and the lower operating rpms.)


Very common in these parts, but generally the 3 litre, 6 cylinder diesel.

There's also a V12 diesel version. Not sure if that one's still on the market though.



> _Powered by a mammoth 6.0-litre V12 diesel engine, producing 493bhp and a truly colossal 737lb ft of torque, the V12 is the Q7 for those who struggle with the concept of self-constraint and have very deep pockets_.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

SG_67 said:


> ^ How does it sound in the winter when starting?


I can only speak for the Dodge as the Porsche was purchased last month and I was only in the Audi diesel for a day.


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## sskim3 (Jul 2, 2013)

I avoided this thread bc I thought it dealt around sunglasses. But hey, I'll contribute. 

I would love to get my hands on a S series like Grayson but it wasn't in the budget. I narrowed down the car search to an Infiniti G37x and an Audi A4. Loved the A4's drive and it has a smarter nav dashboard (i believe it is integrated with Google, so if you like Google Maps, its seemless). The G37x had a bit more power and felt like it had more space. I liked the ride slightly more than the A4. So I compromised the smart nav and gas mileage, and got the G37x and couldn't be more happier. 

Unfortunately, I don't think it qualifies as a trad ride. Can't win them all. :biggrin:


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

Odradek said:


> Very common in these parts, but generally the 3 litre, 6 cylinder diesel.
> 
> There's also a V12 diesel version. Not sure if that one's still on the market though.


Don't think so. Never made it here, unfortunately. Sounds like it would have been a real monster! Closest thing we ever saw stateside was the VW Touareg V10 diesel which itself was a beast. Amazingly enough Porsche never experimented with either in the Cayenne, opting instead for a V6-only for diesel versions.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

SG_67 said:


> ^ How does it sound in the winter when starting?


Generally there's not the same tractor sound from modern diesels starting, no matter the temp. Don't know why that is...


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Bjorn said:


> Generally there's not the same tractor sound from modern diesels starting, no matter the temp. Don't know why that is...


Diesel fuel itself has dramatically improved, and diesel engines are now made quite differently than the older ones (difference compression, lighter parts, etc.). Diesel is a great option for a lot of folks, particularly if you take care of the car. It's a real shame that the US was introduced to such lousy diesel cars 4 years ago, because the modern ones are great for many people.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

pleasehelp said:


> Diesel fuel itself has dramatically improved, and diesel engines are now made quite differently than the older ones (difference compression, lighter parts, etc.). Diesel is a great option for a lot of folks, particularly if you take care of the car. It's a real shame that the US was introduced to such lousy diesel cars 4 years ago, because the modern ones are great for many people.


Agreed. Wasn't long ago that the ONLY passenger cars one could get as a diesel model were a VW or a Mercedes E-class. No high-performance diesels. Now, you can get just about every VW, Audi and BMW as a diesel, plus most Mercedes. Still no diesels sold here from Volvo, Ford, Land Rover or others who offer them overseas. I also don't understand why there isn't a Mercedes C-class offered here, nor why there aren't multiple diesel versions of the E-class, 5-series, 3-series or the SUVs.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

Grayson said:


> Now that you mention it, the S5 (performance variant of the A5) is my own ride...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The car is a beauty. I had the S5 prior to getting my A5. Although it seems like a step down, it was really a matter of practicality. I drive about 16 miles from home to our main office, and hit 61 traffic lights in that short distance. And when I travel two miles to the hospital from our office I nit about 6 lights, so the performance features of the S5 were rarely appreciated or utilized. And I'm enjoying the A5, which is no slacker.

I almost pulled the trigger on a pre owned R-8 (less than 5000 miles on it) but decided that was even less practical. Not to mention that if I did purchase the R8 I would have no idea which sunglasses to wear. :cool2:


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

You have a beautiful car. Jags are traditional British cars. I owned at one time an E-type Jag roaster , it was great fun. I would suggest
you wear aviator sunglasses. Porsche sells a beautiful aviator pair of sunglasses. The lens are removable and the frames are excellent.
European sport cars are a blast. You have excellent in cars.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

TimelesStyle said:


> Agreed. Wasn't long ago that the ONLY passenger cars one could get as a diesel model were a VW or a Mercedes E-class.


Don't forget the ever-trad Mercedes 300TD wagon!


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

sskim3 said:


> I avoided this thread bc I thought it dealt around sunglasses. But hey, I'll contribute.


You thought there were >100 thoughtful replies on the subject of pairing the right sunglasses with a new Jag? ;-)

You must have thought we were insane!


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## Carguy (Nov 29, 2012)

drlivingston said:


> The Catera was still light years ahead of the Cadillac Cimarron!


Oh the Cimarron was the bomb diggity....people just never could understand its timeless value! I mean really, I had to quote 2 pages back to talk about a Chevy Celebrity with a Cadillac badge - speaking of cars that spend more time in the shop than on the road! I think the ignition switch that has recently landed GM in hot water was the same one they used on the Cimarron....at $5.00, it was the most expensive part on the Cimarron by far LOL :deadhorse-a:


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

American car makers were notorious for rebadging a low end car, putting pin stripes and leather seats in it and calling it something else, as though people were too stupid to recognize that a Lincoln town car was the same as a Ford crown Vic which was the same as a mercury grand marquis. 

Though the skin has changed, they still do this to some extent. American cars have always been about the practical and accessible where as in Europe motoring was for the aristocrats and the elites. The industries have grown in accordance with society but it's hard to shake the founding principles sometimes.

At least Cadillac is making an attempt at styling and actually making their cars look different from anything else in the GM lineup. I don't know what the hell Ford is doing with Lincoln. The cars looks hideous!


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> American car makers were notorious for rebadging a low end car, putting pin stripes and leather seats in it and calling it something else, as though people were too stupid to recognize that a Lincoln town car was the same as a Ford crown Vic which was the same as a mercury grand marquis.
> 
> Though the skin has changed, they still do this to some extent. American cars have always been about the practical and accessible where as in Europe motoring was for the aristocrats and the elites. The industries have grown in accordance with society but it's hard to shake the founding principles sometimes.
> 
> At least Cadillac is making an attempt at styling and actually making their cars look different from anything else in the GM lineup. I don't know what the hell Ford is doing with Lincoln. The cars looks hideous!


It's funny you mention the crown vic/town car/grand marquis comparison, we used to rent all three and it was disconcerting how similar those cars were. It was the shining example of rebadging a vehicle.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ I pick on Ford, but GM was notorious for it as well. The above mentioned Caddy Cimarron is a good example. 

It's funny when we think about the VW Touareg vis a vie the Porsche Cayenne. I recall reading that the two share about 60-70% of the same components.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ I pick on Ford, but GM was notorious for it as well. The above mentioned Caddy Cimarron is a good example.
> 
> It's funny when we think about the VW Touareg vis a vie the Porsche Cayenne. I recall reading that the two share about 60-70% of the same components.


Speaking of Volkswagen, I absolutely love the CC, the ones I've driven have been incredibly comfortable and have performed superbly.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ It's a good looking car. Certainly better looking than the Passat. 

I've always liked VW as a brand. They're very stylish, well built (at least I've been told that by those who have owned one) and still accessible. It's a good entry level car for those who appreciate the attention to detail from German cars.


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## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

I am REALLY glad I finally clicked on this thread. :biggrin:


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

SG_67 said:


> At least Cadillac is making an attempt at styling and actually making their cars look different from anything else in the GM lineup.


I had a 1998 Cadillac Seville STS for three years until the head gasket went - a known issue for that engine. It wasn't worth the cost of repair. But it was a very good looking car. The current crop look as though the design team kept dropping a brick onto a concrete floor until it looked like something they could put wheels on.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> American car makers were notorious for rebadging a low end car, putting pin stripes and leather seats in it and calling it something else, as though people were too stupid to recognize that a Lincoln town car was the same as a Ford crown Vic which was the same as a mercury grand marquis.
> 
> Though the skin has changed, they still do this to some extent. American cars have always been about the practical and accessible where as in Europe motoring was for the aristocrats and the elites. The industries have grown in accordance with society but it's hard to shake the founding principles sometimes.
> 
> At least Cadillac is making an attempt at styling and actually making their cars look different from anything else in the GM lineup. I don't know what the hell Ford is doing with Lincoln. The cars looks hideous!


I think Cadillacs are actually more differentiated under the skin from other GM cars than their predecessors; case in point, other than the XTS all non-AWD Cadillacs are now RWD whereas all GM cars other than the Corvette, SS and Camaro are FWD or AWD. Then again I think Cadillac was always decent with this.

And what's funny about Ford is that I think the Ford labeled cars are quite stylish (especially the current Fusion) while the Lincoln versions look godawful. Except the MK-T, which sort of looks like a 1930s mobster car. That's OG.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ It's a good looking car. Certainly better looking than the Passat.
> 
> I've always liked VW as a brand. They're very stylish, well built (at least I've been told that by those who have owned one) and still accessible. It's a good entry level car for those who appreciate the attention to detail from German cars.


They're good vehicles, when my wife and I eventually have kids I would like to own one. The problem is that, though they never need repairs, when they do it's prohibitively expensive. My best friend's wife drives a Jetta, and she had a very minor scrape that set them back $3k, primarily for parts


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Watchman said:


> I am REALLY glad I finally clicked on this thread. :biggrin:


I wish this would get stickied as an example of just how far off track a thread can go lol


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

I agree that the new crop of Ford cars actually look good! They're finally paying attention to styling as is GM with Cadillac. 

I would think they need to bring in a new design team for Lincoln. The entire lineup is incoherent.

Regarding the new F type though, it was is a pretty automobile!


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

SG_67 said:


> I agree that the new crop of Ford cars actually look good! They're finally paying attention to styling as is GM with Cadillac.
> I would think they need to bring in a new design team for Lincoln. The entire lineup is incoherent.
> Regarding the new F type though, it was is a pretty automobile!


I agree that the new Fords seem to benefit from revitalized designs. Lincoln and Buick need to step it up a notch or three.

As far as the F-type is concerned, I think that it looks like a souped-up Miata.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> I agree that the new Fords seem to benefit from revitalized designs. Lincoln and Buick need to step it up a notch or three.
> 
> As far as the F-type is concerned, I think that it looks like a souped-up Miata.


Per buick: I'm actually a pretty big fan of the Lacrosse honestly.
per the F-type/Miata: bahaha I'm never going I see an F-type the same way lol


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

drlivingston said:


> I agree that the new Fords seem to benefit from revitalized designs. Lincoln and Buick need to step it up a notch or three.
> 
> As far as the F-type is concerned, I think that it looks like a souped-up Miata.


Funny you mention Buick. I actually read that the average age of the Buick buyer has gone down by about 10 years (mid 60's to mid 50's) due to Tiger Woods' endorsement deal. Buicks are the go to luxury brand in China! Imagine that.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

SG_67 said:


> Funny you mention Buick. I actually read that the average age of the Buick buyer has gone down by about 10 years (mid 60's to mid 50's) due to Tiger Woods' endorsement deal. Buicks are the go to luxury brand in China! Imagine that.


Yes, it is fortunate that Tiger wasn't sitting in a Enclave when Elin decided to tee off on the rear passenger window. That wouldn't have been a good product endorsement.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

orange fury said:


> I wish this would get stickied as an example of just how far off track a thread can go lol


I prefer to think of it more as an "Adopt, Adapt, and Improve" thing. :cool2:


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> I agree that the new Fords seem to benefit from revitalized designs. Lincoln and Buick need to step it up a notch or three.
> 
> As far as the F-type is concerned, I think that it looks like a souped-up Miata.





orange fury said:


> Per buick: I'm actually a pretty big fan of the Lacrosse honestly.
> per the F-type/Miata: bahaha I'm never going I see an F-type the same way lol


I think Buick has a ways to go, though I think the Regal is actually a very pretty car, and probably a good one for driving enthusiasts (as one of the last mid-tier cars available with a true manual transmission). I actually liked the Lucerne; it was a great sleeper with its available V8, but that's long gone...

Hadn't thought about the F-type as a souped up Miata, but hey, Ford has (or at least had) a big stake in Mazda so maybe there were some similar elements. I still think that reprising the swing-out trunk door, much the way MB resurrected the gull-wing would have been really eye-catching.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Grayson said:


> I prefer to think of it more as an "Adopt, Adapt, and Improve" thing. :cool2:


For the betterment of the forum, of course.

I think OP should come back and start posting in this thread lol


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

drlivingston said:


> Yes, it is fortunate that Tiger wasn't sitting in a Enclave when Elin decided to tee off on the rear passenger window. That wouldn't have been a good product endorsement.


They could boast about the condition of the vehicle when he crashed it!


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

TimelesStyle said:


> I think Buick has a ways to go, though I think the Regal is actually a very pretty car, and probably a good one for driving enthusiasts (as one of the last mid-tier cars available with a true manual transmission). I actually liked the Lucerne; it was a great sleeper with its available V8, but that's long gone...
> 
> Hadn't thought about the F-type as a souped up Miata, but hey, Ford has (or at least had) a big stake in Mazda so maybe there were some similar elements. I still think that reprising the swing-out trunk door, much the way MB resurrected the gull-wing would have been really eye-catching.


Speaking of Ford, I know they don't have a stake in Aston Martin anymore, but that Fusion grill- put one next to an A-M Rapide, the similarities are interesting.


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## sskim3 (Jul 2, 2013)

orange fury said:


> They're good vehicles, when my wife and I eventually have kids I would like to own one. The problem is that, though they never need repairs, when they do it's prohibitively expensive. My best friend's wife drives a Jetta, and she had a very minor scrape that set them back $3k, primarily for parts


The girlfriend had a 2008 passat and once it hit the 70K mark, it kept on having these random issues and raked up $$$$. Just wasn't worth keeping. Also, VW has terrible resale value! WTF......


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

orange fury said:


> Speaking of Ford, I know they don't have a stake in Aston Martin anymore, but that Fusion grill- put one next to an A-M Rapide, the similarities are interesting.


I've thought that as well. I'm sure some of the AM DNA carried over into the design features of the current Ford line up. Overall, Fords have a decidedly European feel. Consider the newer model Explorers. They could easily pass for Land Rovers (which I believe was also owned by Ford for a while).


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> I've thought that as well. I'm sure some of the AM DNA carried over into the design features of the current Ford line up. Overall, Fords have a decidedly European feel. Consider the newer model Explorers. They could easily pass for Land Rovers (which I believe was also owned by Ford for a while).


Im too lazy to look it up right now, but doesn't Jag own Land Rover (which Ford owned until the sale to Tata)?

I like a lot of Ford's newer stuff, my parents just traded in their 04 Grand Cherokee for a 13 Escape, pretty neat vehicle actually.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

By the way, if any of you crashed your Lamborghini Diablo into the George Washington Bridge in New Jersey and abandoned it, the police would like a word with you. 
****update**** He was caught (Back to your regularly scheduled program)


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ It sounds like something a Lambo driver would do! You won't see that happening with an Aston Martin owner. 

Unless, of course, you're in Montenegro and your girlfriend gets kidnapped. You rush to save her and at the last minute you see her in the middle of the road. You swerve to avoid hitting her and flip your Aston. 

I won't even go into what happens to your bollocks next!


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

orange fury said:


> Speaking of Ford, I know they don't have a stake in Aston Martin anymore, but that Fusion grill- put one next to an A-M Rapide, the similarities are interesting.





SG_67 said:


> I've thought that as well. I'm sure some of the AM DNA carried over into the design features of the current Ford line up. Overall, Fords have a decidedly European feel. Consider the newer model Explorers. They could easily pass for Land Rovers (which I believe was also owned by Ford for a while).


I've noticed that exact same thing about the new Fusion grill! I think the overall lines of the Fusion resemble the AM and even Jaguar XK a bit. Glad it was Ford borrowing design elements from AM/Jag instead of the other way around (oh, wait, forgot about the new XJ...).



orange fury said:


> Im too lazy to look it up right now, but doesn't Jag own Land Rover (which Ford owned until the sale to Tata)?
> 
> I like a lot of Ford's newer stuff, my parents just traded in their 04 Grand Cherokee for a 13 Escape, pretty neat vehicle actually.


So the ownership history goes something like this (I believe):

1989: Ford purchases Jaguar
1994: BMW purchases all of Rover (inc. Land Rover and Mini)
2000: BMW sells just Land Rover to Ford
2008: Ford divests of almost all non-Ford/Lincoln marques with AM going to PE firm, Jaguar/Land Rover going to Tata, Volvo going to Chinese (forget which firm)

The interesting thing is, given how long it takes to design a car start to finish, and how frequently some of these car companies have been sold, the current model will often have substantial influences from the previous owner. For example, the Range Rover introduced when BMW bought the company was designed by Land Rover, designs for the mid-90s Jags I love began prior to Ford, Land Rover took several years to switch from BMW to Jaguar engines, etc.

My Volvo, built in 2013 after the sale to the Chinese, still has many small details similar to Fords. It's little things like way the turn signals work, some controls/displays, etc.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Mini is still owned by BMW correct? I had a friend who sold her Mini Cooper a couple years ago because she had to go to the BMW dealership for service, and it was far more expensive than she was willing to pay.

also, per the range rover discussion, call me crazy but I really like the Evoque. Not exactly an off road vehicle, but pretty nice. Not familiar with the reliability though


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Mini is still owned by BMW. There was a pretty interesting CNBC story on BMW last year. 

A colleague recently purchased the Evoque. She loves it, but then she's the type of person who is more into the styling and not so much performance. It got pretty decent reviews on Top Gear.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

TimelesStyle said:


> My Volvo, built in 2013 after the sale to the Chinese, still has many small details similar to Fords. It's little things like way the turn signals work, some controls/displays, etc.


What Volvo do you have? I like the look of the S60 and V40


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

what sunglasses would one wear if they were driving a Gremlin, Pacer or a Pinto?

me thinks these should suffice:


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

My sister owned a sun-yellow Pacer when she was in high school back in the mid-80's. It was perfect for her. That thing was amazingly solid. She took out our neighbors brick mailbox and all it did was dent the bumper. That mailbox would have totaled the Nissan Sentra that she traded it in for.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

orange fury said:


> Mini is still owned by BMW correct? I had a friend who sold her Mini Cooper a couple years ago because she had to go to the BMW dealership for service, and it was far more expensive than she was willing to pay.
> 
> also, per the range rover discussion, call me crazy but I really like the Evoque. Not exactly an off road vehicle, but pretty nice. Not familiar with the reliability though


See, I'm not really a fan of the Evoque because, to me at least, it's not a _Range Rover. _Sure, it's a fine looking mini-SUV, but to me, it's just a way to sell a car that should cost $30k for $50k because it borrows the Range Rover name. Other examples, past and present, of this type of thing are:

Jaguar X-type
Maserati Ghibli
Ferrari California
Aston Martin Vantage V8 (I know I'll get some flack on this one)
Rolls Royce Ghost/Wrath

Don't get me wrong, many of these are VERY fine automobiles in their own right, but (other than the Jag X and RRE) they are aimed at people who should be looking at a Lexus/Volvo (X-type), E-550/550i (Ghibli), DB9/SLS (California), Jaguar XKR/M6/CL (Vantage V8), S600/Quattroporte/Rapide (Ghost). Same thing as when clothing labels (Armani, Zegna, Ferragamo) begin offering diffusion lines.



orange fury said:


> What Volvo do you have? I like the look of the S60 and V40


I have the S60 T5 AWD and love it. Mine is a 2013, so didn't get the new display or paddle shifters offered in 2014. I hear great things so far about the new line of I-4 engines going into all Volvos, but for tradition's sake (as well as knowing what I'm really getting in terms of durability) I'm very happy to have an old school Volvo I-5. The AWD models will keep receiving the old 5 and 6 cylinder engines for some time regardless.

Love the V40 also; too bad they don't offer it here. The new V60 is much more of a looker than the V70, which I always thought of as a budget E-class wagon.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

TimelesStyle said:


> Rolls Royce Ghost/*Wrath*


I like the name "Wrath" better than Wraith... It just sounds better.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> I like the name "Wrath" better than Wraith... It just sounds better.


So named for the emotion it engenders among the hoi polloi who look enviously through the windows at the driver.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

I have heard fairly positive things about the wraith/ghost from a driving standpoint. My understanding of the product targeting is that the Phantom is essentially a car you're driven around in (generally), and the wraith and ghost are targeted at those who have the money but want to drive themselves


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## irish95 (Sep 27, 2011)

In discussing re-badging, Ian Callum was the designer of the Aston Martin DB9 and Vanquish. He also designed the Jaguar XK. All gorgeous cars with some obvious similarities sans price tags. Top Gear did a show a few years back comparing the Aston with the XK and the results and reviews were somewhat surprising. Jeremy Clarkson felt for the money, the Jag was the better car. Since I've own a black XKR coupe I can highly recommend the car. The downside being when the car goes out of warranty, make sure you know a good mechanic because the dealer will kill you. Frankly, any car besides a Japanese car is probably going to have problems and cost money at some point. I know people will disagree, but I owned a Lexus GS and a 300Z and they never saw a mechanic in 6 years except for muffler and oil changes.

Grayson--great photo with the 2 loves of your life.


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## irish95 (Sep 27, 2011)

Oh I forgot---maui jim and clubmasters Keeping with the theme.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

orange fury said:


> I have heard fairly positive things about the wraith/ghost from a driving standpoint. My understanding of the product targeting is that the Phantom is essentially a car you're driven around in (generally), and the wraith and ghost are targeted at those who have the money but want to drive themselves


I have a difficult time seeing people really treating the Ghost as a car they drive themselves; it's a good six inches _longer _than the S-class, LWB 7-series or A8L, which themselves are often chauffeur-driven. But maybe.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

As an aside, this thread kind of reminds me of the last paragraph of the book 1984.

Original paragraph:



> He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.


Altered for thread relevancy:



> He gazed at the enormous thread. Seven pages it had taken him to learn what kind of threak was hidden beneath the unassuming title. O cruel, needless misunderstanding of the forum! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the derailed thread! Two completely off-topic sentences about Volvos flowed from his fingertips. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over the original self-absorbed topic. He loved OP.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

irish95 said:


> Oh I forgot---maui jim and clubmasters Keeping with the theme.


Are you talking about sunglasses... That is, like so page 1. :tongue2:


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## jm22 (Apr 18, 2013)

TimelesStyle said:


> See, I'm not really a fan of the Evoque because, to me at least, it's not a _Range Rover. _Sure, it's a fine looking mini-SUV, but to me, it's just a way to sell a car that should cost $30k for $50k because it borrows the Range Rover name. Other examples, past and present, of this type of thing are:
> 
> Jaguar X-type
> Maserati Ghibli
> ...


Ghibli starts at 70k and is just a smaller car. That's like saying an E-class/ 5 series/a6 is a diffusion line of the S class/7 series/A8.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## irish95 (Sep 27, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> Are you talking about sunglasses... That is, like so page 1. :tongue2:


Now that is good. I've always been "a few pages" behind.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

jm22 said:


> Ghibli starts at 70k and is just a smaller car. That's like saying an E-class/ 5 series/a6 is a diffusion line of the S class/7 series/A8.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not really. The S-class, 7-series and A8 are intended to be mass-produced cars, built on assembly lines, with numbers produced limited only by the number of people who can afford $75k+ cars; there's nothing that "special" about them other than their price. Maserati, on the other hand, had historically been a much lower-production car, limited in numbers by the factory's capacity. You didn't buy it because it was the safest, the most reliable, the fastest, the must technology-rich or the most luxurious, you bought it because it was something different and had character few other four-doors had. As the company moves more mass market, that goes away. The Ghibli is now just another $75k car and in my opinion, there are better ones out there for everyone except those who say "I want the Maserati triton on the front of my car".


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

TimelesStyle said:


> Not really. The S-class, 7-series and A8 are intended to be mass-produced cars, built on assembly lines, with numbers produced limited only by the number of people who can afford $75k+ cars; there's nothing that "special" about them other than their price. Maserati, on the other hand, had historically been a much lower-production car, limited in numbers by the factory's capacity. You didn't buy it because it was the safest, the most reliable, the fastest, the must technology-rich or the most luxurious, you bought it because it was something different and had character few other four-doors had. As the company moves more mass market, that goes away. The Ghibli is now just another $75k car and in my opinion, there are better ones out there for everyone except those who say "I want the Maserati triton on the front of my car".


I've never thought of modern Maseratis that way. I suspect that they would sell as many as the market could handle. They have obviously tried to market themselves as high-end performance luxury, but have you seen any evidence that they've tried to limit their numbers to try to seem more exclusive?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

gaseousclay said:


> what sunglasses would one wear if they were driving a Gremlin, Pacer or a Pinto?
> 
> me thinks these should suffice:


Those are a bit too big.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

shouldn't someone get a pair of polarized sunglasses for driving a car?


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

pleasehelp said:


> I've never thought of modern Maseratis that way. I suspect that they would sell as many as the market could handle. They have obviously tried to market themselves as high-end performance luxury, but have you seen any evidence that they've tried to limit their numbers to try to seem more exclusive?


It's not a question of limiting numbers to give the impression of exclusivity (stainless Daytona, Hermes Birkin), rather the idea of using older techniques to craft cars and not expanding production. Look at the pictures of the interior of a pre-02 Quattroporte and you'll see what I mean. Craftsmanship like that just doesn't exist today.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ it might just be an issue of distribution as well. The Germans have a much greater head start and quite frankly they have cars that run the gamut from affordable to high end. Consider that the same company that makes a C250 for ~$30,000 also makes the SLS for nearly ten times as much. 

Maserati just is not that type of company; Fiat is. Both Italian, but one is intended for use as a taxi and the other has always been and will likely remain an exotic sports car company with only a handful of models.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

SG_67 said:


> ^ it might just be an issue of distribution as well. The Germans have a much greater head start and quite frankly they have cars that run the gamut from affordable to high end. Consider that the same company that makes a C250 for ~$30,000 also makes the SLS for nearly ten times as much.
> 
> Maserati just is not that type of company; Fiat is. Both Italian, but one is intended for use as a taxi and the other has always been and will likely remain an exotic sports car company with only a handful of models.


While that's true, Fiat will democratize it a bit in order to milk the Maserati name for all it's worth. I mean look what Ford did with Jaguar; it had been decades since Jaguar had offered more than one model of sedan and one coupe/convertible but then all of a sudden you had up to three sedans (XJ, S-type, X-type) and now two coupe/convertible models.

And you will absolutely see Fiat (probably even Chrysler) components end up on Maseratis too. Wouldn't entirely shock me if we saw a $50k Maserati hit the streets that was a Chrysler 300 underneath.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

As mentioned earlier, it wouldn't be the first time that Chrysler and Maserati have swapped lug nuts.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

TimelesStyle said:


> And you will absolutely see Fiat (probably even Chrysler) components end up on Maseratis too.


That already was true with Ferraris, of course.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

TimelesStyle said:


> It's not a question of limiting numbers to give the impression of exclusivity (stainless Daytona, Hermes Birkin), rather the idea of using older techniques to craft cars and not expanding production. Look at the pictures of the interior of a pre-02 Quattroporte and you'll see what I mean. Craftsmanship like that just doesn't exist today.


I don't know much about older Quattroporte's but I'm a bit surprised to hear that there was any particular craftsmanship in their interiors. Except for some very old ones, I just don't view them as being in that league... Happy to be wrong about it though. Maseratis don't hold any particular appeal to me so I've never spent much time learning about them or fiddling with them.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

StephenRG said:


> That already was true with Ferraris, of course.


Is that still the case?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

TimelesStyle said:


> While that's true, Fiat will democratize it a bit in order to milk the Maserati name for all it's worth. I mean look what Ford did with Jaguar; it had been decades since Jaguar had offered more than one model of sedan and one coupe/convertible but then all of a sudden you had up to three sedans (XJ, S-type, X-type) and now two coupe/convertible models.
> 
> And you will absolutely see Fiat (probably even Chrysler) components end up on Maseratis too. Wouldn't entirely shock me if we saw a $50k Maserati hit the streets that was a Chrysler 300 underneath.


Probably will happen as they expand into the U.S. Market. They will offer a greater range of cars specifically for our domestic market in order to gain brand loyalty.

It's interesting to note how some of the European manufacturers tailor their vehicles for the market. I believe the BMW x3 is made here exclusively and we're the biggest market for it.

In Germany it's not unusual to see someone driving an S series Benz with the same motor as the C300 but you won't find that here.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

SG_67 said:


> It's interesting to note how some of the European manufacturers tailor their vehicles for the market. I believe the BMW x3 is made here exclusively and we're the biggest market for it.


I believe that the Alabama-built M-class would fall into this category.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

pleasehelp said:


> I don't know much about older Quattroporte's but I'm a bit surprised to hear that there was any particular craftsmanship in their interiors. Except for some very old ones, I just don't view them as being in that league... Happy to be wrong about it though. Maseratis don't hold any particular appeal to me so I've never spent much time learning about them or fiddling with them.


While I never sat in the older version (not brought to the US), the photos suggest at least interior details you wouldn't see today, particularly the extensive use of leather and wood:

https://ipocars.com/vinfo/maserati/quattroporte_v8_evoluzione-2000.html


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I miss the old leather and wood appointments... Alas, molded plastic makes it easier to integrate USB ports, iPod docking stations, and cupholders that will hold 44oz drinks into the all-too synthetic interior.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

TimelesStyle said:


> While I never sat in the older version (not brought to the US), the photos suggest at least interior details you wouldn't see today, particularly the extensive use of leather and wood:
> 
> https://ipocars.com/vinfo/maserati/quattroporte_v8_evoluzione-2000.html


I guess it's in the eye of the beholder - doesn't look like a higher level of craftsmanship to me than the newer ones or other mid-range luxury cars of that era.


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

pleasehelp said:


> I guess it's in the eye of the beholder - doesn't look like a higher level of craftsmanship to me than the newer ones or other mid-range luxury cars of that era.


In my opinion, outside of Rolls-Royce prior to the BMW takeover, the only car rivaling the interior of the Maserati was Jaguar. Nobody else used leather and wood in such a way. It's in the little details, like the wooden parking break, with a leather (vs. rubber or fiber) "bag" covering the rest of the handle. Or the all wood steering wheel, which few if any others did as a non-custom bit.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

TimelesStyle said:


> In my opinion, outside of Rolls-Royce prior to the BMW takeover, the only car rivaling the interior of the Maserati was Jaguar. Nobody else used leather and wood in such a way. It's in the little details, like the wooden parking break, with a leather (vs. rubber or fiber) "bag" covering the rest of the handle. Or the all wood steering wheel, which few if any others did as a non-custom bit.


Truth be told, I don't pay much attention to that sort of thing in cars, so you might be right. From just glancing at it, it just doesn't look like a grade higher than standard, but it sounds like you've spent more time looking at it and comparing. I suppose if I drove more often then I might care, but when you only drive for fun or for doing things with the family outside the city, your focus shifts.

Except that they are easier to clean when you have children, I generally prefer synthetic interiors to leather ones in my own cars because they are less slippery (particularly if I'm the driver). It annoys me that most sports cars only come with leather seating options and you need to swap out the seats for synethetic. If it's a car that I will drive, I focus on a secure, simple and comfortable layout with a clear instrument panel - I prefer amber lights when driving at night (the old BMWs were great in this respect). From a passenger standpoint, I like a large comfortable seats with a high headrest.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Those previous-gen Q4s are terribly ugly on the outside - like something Pontiac thought up in the early 90's - but they sure are lookers on the inside.

Consider that it would have been competing with the S-Class:










And one of those cars will run a lot longer than the other...



> I just want to know if anyone else has any experience with a high-mileage Quattroporte other than myself? If the answer to that is, "Yes," please feel free to contribute. If not, here's my rant in favor of Chrysler switches: The Maserati switches they used before were sh*t, and literally broke off our car on more than one occasion. I understand the Chrysler switches look cheaper, but if they just stay attached to the damn door, that is a major step forward from the last car.





> I'll probably take a bunch of crap for this, but I don't care, because I know what a 70,000 mile QP feels like. It feels like trash. There's a reason a 5 year old QP sells for $25,000 at a wholesale auction. The leather may feel nice, the engine may sound good, it may be pretty and it may be fast, but I have loads of experience with exotic cars and these cars do not age well at all in terms of fit, finish, and quality. They are unreliable, crazy expensive to repair and maintain, and, in my experience, bits literally fall off them. If that means they have to use some Chrysler pieces because Chrysler makes better glue to hold them on, so be it.




https://jalopnik.com/5981554/of-course-bespoke-switches-are-important-in-luxury-cars/all


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

pleasehelp said:


> Truth be told, I don't pay much attention to that sort of thing in cars, so you might be right. From just glancing at it, it just doesn't look like a grade higher than standard, but it sounds like you've spent more time looking at it and comparing. I suppose if I drove more often then I might care, but when you only drive for fun or for doing things with the family outside the city, your focus shifts.
> 
> Except that they are easier to clean when you have children, I generally prefer synthetic interiors to leather ones in my own cars because they are less slippery (particularly if I'm the driver). It annoys me that most sports cars only come with leather seating options and you need to swap out the seats for synethetic. If it's a car that I will drive, I focus on a secure, simple and comfortable layout with a clear instrument panel - I prefer amber lights when driving at night (the old BMWs were great in this respect). From a passenger standpoint, I like a large comfortable seats with a high headrest.


Sounds like you would not be the right candidate for the Maserati. Biggest problem you'll have, based on your criteria, is that most higher end cars that don't have leather standard (believe it or not, the MB E320 is one such car) come with some kind of pleather instead. However it's easy to clean.

By the way, next time you are car shopping, look at the Volvo S60. Other than lack of cloth seats it sounds like it meets your standards to a T. I still believe that Volvo has the best seats for a tall guy of any car out there, even ones costing three times as much. The seat shape and headrests are basically unchanged over the last 20 years and there's a good reason!

On a mid-range car, I would also prefer to see very high quality synthetics and metals used inside as opposed to crappy wood or, worse, "wood grain" (which is like the California Roll of car interior trim). Part of why I like European cars; the Japanese ones tend to use cheap feeling leather and plastic-looking wood (when it is even real wood).


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## TimelesStyle (Aug 25, 2013)

Tilton said:


> Those previous-gen Q4s are terribly ugly on the outside - like something Pontiac thought up in the early 90's - but they sure are lookers on the inside.
> 
> Consider that it would have been competing with the S-Class:
> 
> ...


See, I actually like that previous generation because they were subtle yet distinctive. The new ones not so much (and even less distinctive given how similar the new Infiniti Q70 looks). But, if you ask me what I'd prefer to be driving ten years after I first buy it, that S-class would win HANDS DOWN. It may be expensive to maintain, but at least it will stay together if maintained properly.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

TimelesStyle said:


> Sounds like you would not be the right candidate for the Maserati. Biggest problem you'll have, based on your criteria, is that most higher end cars that don't have leather standard (believe it or not, the MB E320 is one such car) come with some kind of pleather instead. However it's easy to clean.
> 
> By the way, next time you are car shopping, look at the Volvo S60. Other than lack of cloth seats it sounds like it meets your standards to a T. I still believe that Volvo has the best seats for a tall guy of any car out there, even ones costing three times as much. The seat shape and headrests are basically unchanged over the last 20 years and there's a good reason!
> 
> On a mid-range car, I would also prefer to see very high quality synthetics and metals used inside as opposed to crappy wood or, worse, "wood grain" (which is like the California Roll of car interior trim). Part of why I like European cars; the Japanese ones tend to use cheap feeling leather and plastic-looking wood (when it is even real wood).


I'm not the right candidate for a Maserati (or Volvo) for a lot of reasons beyond just the leather. The leather is something that annoys me but that I generally deal with (most of my cars for the last 15 years have had leather). As a city person, I don't have to drive on a regular basis, so "average" cars like that don't interest me. My current cars are specialized (an extremely impractical sports car and a family SUV with terrible gas mileage for things outside the city) because I only use them for special purposes. I'm toying with getting another specialty car now, but will probably hold off for a while.

If my wife and/or I had to drive regularly, we would add different cars entirely.


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## jm22 (Apr 18, 2013)

TimelesStyle said:


> Sounds like you would not be the right candidate for the Maserati. Biggest problem you'll have, based on your criteria, is that most higher end cars that don't have leather standard (believe it or not, the MB E320 is one such car) come with some kind of pleather instead. However it's easy to clean.
> 
> By the way, next time you are car shopping, look at the Volvo S60. Other than lack of cloth seats it sounds like it meets your standards to a T. I still believe that Volvo has the best seats for a tall guy of any car out there, even ones costing three times as much. The seat shape and headrests are basically unchanged over the last 20 years and there's a good reason!
> 
> On a mid-range car, I would also prefer to see very high quality synthetics and metals used inside as opposed to crappy wood or, worse, "wood grain" (which is like the California Roll of car interior trim). Part of why I like European cars; the Japanese ones tend to use cheap feeling leather and plastic-looking wood (when it is even real wood).


Volvo has the most comfortable stock seats, period. I've driven just about everything and nothing compares the volvo seats on a long drive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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