# What Are Your Thoughts on Trout Stocking Programs



## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

As opening day approaches, I was wondering what people thought about state-run trout stocking programs? 

When I first moved to PA, I was surprised by how large the trout stocking program was in the commonwealth. According to the "Stocked Trout Program: Cost Report" (March 2009), PA spent $8M to produce and stock trout in 2007-2008 and another $24M to renovate state run hatcheries. I thought and still think that the program largely misdirects resources. That is, instead of spending more money to develop sustainable habitats for the wild or native trout so that they may naturally reproduce, it artificially creates a memorable fishing experience by placing grown trout into bodies of water so that anglers can catch these same trout, in some cases hours after the fish were placed in the water. That is, the program basically turns the wild waters of PA into pay lakes and streams.

Don't get me wrong, if someone wants to fish a pay lake, that's their choice. I don't think it's real fishing, but it doesn't hurt me. 

However, the trout stocking program may be paradoxically creating a worse fishing experience over the long term since stocked trout may be damaging the native and wild trout populations. Trophy stocked fish are bigger and more aggressive than wild trout and so outcompete the wild trout for food. The result being that the wild trout take longer to grow. I've also read that the stocked trout rarely hold over to the next season to become naturalized. That is, the majority of stocked fish are caught or die. And so you have a non-virtuous cycle of fewer and smaller wild or native trout each spring being subjected to armies of stocked trout competing for limited food.

Most anglers I see don't seem to mind. All they care about is the number of fish in their creel, but there's got to be a better way of creating a sustainable fishery.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

A trout thread in the "white tie" forum? Aha! I see what you did there :icon_smile_big:



I can't really comment because, while I know there's a similar trout stocking program here in NJ, I primarily fly fish for bass (the heresy!) and they provide a memorable fishing experience in their own way.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I prefer trouts in stockings than pantyhose. 

Oh sorry. Wrong thread. :redface:


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Shaver said:


> I prefer trouts in stockings than pantyhose. Oh sorry. Wrong thread. :redface:


Maybe I'm in the wrong thread!


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> A trout thread in the "white tie" forum? Aha! I see what you did there :icon_smile_big:
> 
> I can't really comment because, while I know there's a similar trout stocking program here in NJ, I primarily fly fish for bass (the heresy!) and they provide a memorable fishing experience in their own way.


I wish I could say I thought of the "connection" to white tie, but alas no...

Probably another thread, but I'm with you there. I been toying with the idea of using the flyrod (and some small poppers) to fish for Mr Bassy.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> I wish I could say I thought of the "connection" to white tie, but alas no...
> 
> Probably another thread, but I'm with you there. I been toying with the idea of using the flyrod (and some small poppers) to fish for Mr Bassy.


It's an absolute blast if you want some guaranteed action and very hard strikes. There's no need to study the local bug population or "match the hatch, " just pick what color popper to use. Of course, being up to your arm pits in stinky pond water isn't exactly Gray's Sporting Journal material either.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> ... being up to your arm pits in stinky pond water isn't exactly Gray's Sporting Journal material either.


Probably another thread, but I'm convinced Gray's Sporting Journal is written for the virtual flyfisherman. The one who spends a fortune for equipment but never gets it (or himself) dirty or wet.


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## 12345Michael54321 (Mar 6, 2008)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> According to the "Stocked Trout Program: Cost Report" (March 2009), PA spent $8M to produce and stock trout in 2007-2008 and another $24M to renovate state run hatcheries. I thought and still think that the program largely misdirects resources.


Well, before forming an opinion as to whether it's a misdirection of resources, I'd first need to know whether the $32 million spent resulted in revenue to PA at least $32 million greater than if the money hadn't been spent.

At a very basic level, if spending X dollars increases profit by less than X dollars, then in purely economic terms it would seem like a misdirection of resources. (Admittedly, there can be disagreement over whether realizing a short-term profit will have negative economic consequences in the long-term. Or, conversely, whether a program which seems like a misdirection of resources in the short term will yield long-term benefits.)

And there may be, of course, non-economic considerations (environmental, spiritual/ethical, political, etc.) also worth considering. But since they're often more difficult to quantify than is an actual dollar amount gained or lost, the simple "Did it pay for itself?" question would be a good place to start.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Doesn't the money invested in Pennsylvania's DNR programs come primarily from the sale of fishing and hunting licenses? Also, is the hatchery near Bellefonte, Pa. still in operation? Bank in the 1960's and 1970's the fish stocked were on the smallish side and release times and locations were closely kept secrets of the Stat authorities responsible for the programs.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

12345Michael54321 said:


> And there may be, of course, non-economic considerations (environmental, spiritual/ethical, political, etc.) also worth considering. But since they're often more difficult to quantify than is an actual dollar amount gained or lost, the simple "Did it pay for itself?" question would be a good place to start.


I see your point. I don't have an answer.

I will say this however. Not to get too hippie, but this type of analysis is a slippery slope since the next question is "How do we maximize profit?" One silly answer is to sell the public land to build a shopping mall. The "benefit" is obvious. More people would utilize the property. More dollars would exchange hands. The economy would benefit.

I think a better question than "Did it pay for itself?" is "How can we be better stewards of the land?"


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

What you describe, in terms of the farmed fish outbreeding wild fish, can be a real nuisance - it is happening in Scotland with farmed salmon, for instance. There, the fish are being farmed principally to satisfy supermarket demand (where salmon can now be bought quite cheaply), but escaped farm fish can pose a menace to the wild population in various ways.


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## Ματθαῖος (Jun 17, 2011)

The process of actually stocking the trout is comical. Large trucks shoot fish into the water.



















Matthew


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

^ So they get shot out of a septic truck? Kind of gives the term "brown trout" a whole new meaning.


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## yorkio (Jun 12, 2012)

You lot are spoilt - we have to walk ours down to the river bank by the bucketload!










Clearly, not a great deal has changed since the days when they used to turn up in milkchurns. Incredibly, our president actually remembers one or two of that lot from when he first joined the club half a century or so ago.

I must admit, I'd always rather catch a six-inch wild brownie than a stockie three times the size but I do recognise that not everyone feels that way, including many of our members. We do however have a wild fish sanctuary at the top of the river that isn't stocked, which is where I'd much rather fish.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Ματθαῖος said:


> The process of actually stocking the trout is comical. Large trucks shoot fish into the water.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What you don't see is the dozen or so "fishermen" standing behind the photographer, waiting for the truck to leave so they can start "fishing"...

The ratio of actual worker (yellow overalls) to bystanders/volunteers/managers in the pic is about right however.


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