# Denim discussion (yes, jeans)



## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

This thread was created from a discussion that began in WAYW, and I thought it appropriate to begin a new thread rather than hijack that one. It was begun my posting of this ensemble below.

JCrew patch tweed cap
John Partridge jacket
Scots Glen lambswool scarf (via STP)










PRL sweatshirt
Levis 514s
BR socks
BR desert boots


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Wow, the 514s look really good on you Alan.

I had a pair, but felt they were too skinny. Plus I thought the lower low rise would be hard to tuck into.
I going to bring them out again.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Wow, the 514s look really good on you Alan.
> 
> I had a pair, but felt they were too skinny. Plus I thought the lower low rise would be hard to tuck into.
> I going to bring them out again.


Thanks. The low rise is taking some getting used to. If this jeans experiment goes well I _may_ venture into som Rescues or Average Joes. We'll see.


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## nerdykarim (Dec 13, 2005)

AlanC said:


> Thanks. The low rise is taking some getting used to. If this jeans experiment goes well I _may_ venture into som Rescues or Average Joes. We'll see.


I would endorse such a move. I bought a pair of New Standards a couple months ago and I'm surprised at how much i enjoy wearing them. I really like the raw denim thing.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

^ I agree, to a point.

I'm still too self conscious in some of the slimmer 'skinny' cuts, and the lower rise bugs me (can;t really tuck in, shortens the leg etc).
Probably the biggest problem is what to wear with them, any shirt/sportcoat/sweater I have isn;t nearly as fitted, so anything more than a t-shirt looks unbalanced.

I'd advise ignoring any advice to "size down" too.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing -- good jeans. Do the 514's fit differently from the 501's? And are they "pre-shrunk"?

(Bewildering array of varieties....)



AlanC said:


> Thanks. The low rise is taking some getting used to. If this jeans experiment goes well I _may_ venture into som Rescues or Average Joes. We'll see.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Joe Beamish said:


> I was thinking the same thing -- good jeans. Do the 514's fit differently from the 501's? And are they "pre-shrunk"?
> 
> (Bewildering array of varieties....)


Yes, the 514s are skinnier and a lower rise. They aren't 'shrink-to-fit', either, so the size you buy ought to be the size they stay at. These are 'rigids', are stiffer out of the box and a darker color. They're a standard cheap Levi's recommendation over at the SF Streetwear forum, a low end alternative/entry to the pricey denim. I bought mine from Tilley's via Amazon, but I've seen 514 cuts at Kohl's. One of the keys of modern look denim is you want dark, dark denim. No pre-fades or stonewashing, etc.

Negatives for me, I tend to have a bigger butt and thighs relative to my waist, so a slight bit more room would be well, as well as a slightly higher rise. I think APC Rescues or Nudie Regular Joes would probably address those issues, but in the ~$150 range.

They're doing a jeans 101 thread at Style Forum in the Men's Clothing area. Take a look there. We might ought to move this discussion to a thread here.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Count me out as far as "skinny jeans" are concerned. I don't even like the rise on the 501s, and went for the 505's instead.

I've been considering a pair of those in a darker wash for a more "modern" look, but then I think...why? 

I do like those boots, however.


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Rescues are great jeans. I have become a big fan of dry denim.


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Topsider said:


> Count me out as far as "skinny jeans" are concerned. I don't even like the rise on the 501s, and went for the 505's instead.
> 
> I've been considering a pair of those in a darker wash for a more "modern" look, but then I think...why?
> 
> I do like those boots, however.


Yes, the BR Sahara boots (If I recall correctly we purchased them around the same time) are PERFECT for jeans.


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## zarathustra (Aug 24, 2006)

I was having a conversation with a girlfriend of mine the other day about jeans. She could not remember the last time she saw me with jeans on and wondered if i had any.

Those look great Alan... may have to venture to the Levis's store this weekend.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^Thanks. Yeah, those are the only jeans I currently own. I may add a pair of 'nice' jeans, but that will do me. I won't wear them that often. I'm in tan moleskins today.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I absolutely love APC jeans, they are Japanese selvedge denim with a very dark wash.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

I won't do the skinny jeans, but they look great on you, Alan.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

After getting used to the room and high-rise of Bills M1s, I generally don't like the fit of jeans.

I do wear them on the weekend for chores and hanging around, though.

I have one pair of the standard LE "dad" colored jeans and a pair of the more recent LE dark rinse jeans (but not the '47 indigo' ones - which strike me as too fashiony).



I bought their relaxed fit model in the Rinsed Deep Indigo color for $29.50 at Sears. They do not have any fading or "whiskering" on them and have a plain pocket. The only logo-ification is their lighthouse logo on branded on a dark patch of leather at the waistband, which is covered by my belt anyway. There is nothing "fashiony" about them except the currently popular dark color.

These relaxed-fit jeans have a bit more room up top, but, I still had to go 2 "waist" sizes larger to get them to fit on my hips where they come to rest.

They are not baggy/poofy at the top like some of the dad jeans I see my compatriots wear.

I wear them casually with t-shirt and sweat-shirt and have worn them with a plaid sport-shirt and my dark brown cord blazer and Alden PTBs out to dinner and a bar with my wife and some friends.


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## TheGunther (Nov 7, 2008)

I recently bought a pair of the apt. 9 blue jeans from Kohl's. There really is only one standard cut and the color: Dark. Pairing these with my tan cord blazer looks great. I think I've worn these every weekend since I bought them!

Edit: These are it!

https://www.kohls.com/kohlsStore/mens/brandsformen/apt9new/PRD~396497/apt+9+Navaho+Premium+Jeans.jsp#


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## zarathustra (Aug 24, 2006)

AlanC said:


> ^Thanks. Yeah, those are the only jeans I currently own. I may add a pair of 'nice' jeans, but that will do me. I won't wear them that often. I'm in tan moleskins today.


I own several --- i just never find myself wearing them. they kind of sit in a box in the corner all lonely. I have them, as certain times here in NYC, dark jeans are all one can wear out. For some reason, khaki's or cords just don't fit certain venues.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

AlanC -- Great primer, thank you. I'm going to have a look at 514's one of these days.
JB


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## Scrumhalf (Dec 20, 2007)

I have become a big fan of Texas Jeans. Made in USA of (I think) domestic denim fabric. It is a hefty 14.75 oz denim too. The price is $30 per pair, pretty much what one would pay for a Levi's or any other offshore manufactured jeans. 

The slim fit is very nice - I wear a 29" waist with a 31" inseam and it fits extremely well. It is also available in a couple of looser fits. I will post a full review one of these days.


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## Bruce Wayne (Mar 10, 2008)

Nice jeans AlanC. I have a pair of Levi's 505's that I wore just yesterday that have a similar wash to yours.


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## JBG (Sep 13, 2007)

I unfortunately do not fit well into the 514s, but the 559s (relaxed straight) fit perfectly. I compared my 559s to my pair of APC Rescues and the cut is almost identical, so If you don't want to spring for the APCs the 559s are a good alternative and can be had in the dark wash (my preference as well).


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^That might be a good solution for me.


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## Acacian (Jul 10, 2007)

zarathustra said:


> I have them, as certain times here in NYC, dark jeans are all one can wear out. For some reason, khaki's or cords just don't fit certain venues.


Exactly. Generally below 14th Street...


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Those look good, Alan. I've been needing some new jeans--I may have to go to Kohl's and see if that fit will work with my ghetto booty.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

I happened to be in Sears today (returning something that I ordered from Lands' End...that's about the only reason I go to Sears nowadays), and saw some Levi's 514 jeans on display. I figured, "What the hell, if AlanC can wear these things, maybe I can, too!"

_*WRONG!!!*_

Those are some skinny jeans, my friend! I could hardly button the things, much less contemplate sitting down in them without experiencing something akin to that torture scene in "Casino Royale."

Kudos to you, Alan, and whatever diet you're on. It ain't happenin' for me any time soon.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

AlanC said:


> This thread was created from a discussion that began in WAYW, and I thought it appropriate to begin a new thread rather than hijack that one. It was begun my posting of this ensemble below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was dressed almost exactly like that yesterday, at least in appearance. Instead of Levis 514s I had on Lee Regular Fit in dark blue, instead of a grey sweatshirt I had on a grey crew neck cotton sweater, and instead of BR desert boots I had on a pair of black Adidas Stan Smiths. The look was almost identical though. I get criticized over in the other forum for saying that I dress like this. At any rate I think it looks good on you. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## S. Kelly (Jan 19, 2008)

I think it's time to try those LE jeans, with long rise.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Topsider said:


> Count me out as far as "skinny jeans" are concerned. I don't even like the rise on the 501s, and went for the 505's instead.
> 
> I've been considering a pair of those in a darker wash for a more "modern" look, but then I think...why?
> 
> I do like those boots, however.


I could be wrong, but aren't 505's just 501s with a zipper?

take this with a grain, since I believe jeans aren't really made to be worn all that baggy....
but to me the 514s aren't as 'skinny' as they are 'slim' i.e. if you have the legs/body for it (not sure I do) they'll look just fine on you.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I could be wrong, but aren't 505's just 501s with a zipper?


That's the common belief, and maybe that's how they were at one time, but if you try both on, the fit is actually quite different, particularly the rise.

From the Levi's web site, concerning the 501: "Original Jean is still straight through the seat, thigh and leg, a bestseller for its one-of-a-kind fit. *The tilted waistband pitches toward the front.*"

As for the 505: "A classic jean beloved for its comfortable style, which fits straight through the seat, thigh and leg. *Its straight-cut waistband hits at the waist and sits evenly front and back.*"

The 514 is described as: "A bestseller for its universal slim fit, which *never feels too snug *_[Ed: Your mileage may vary]_ or looks too baggy. Cut low at the waist and close through the seat and thigh."

The 514 is quite a different jean altogether.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

Topsider said:


> The 514 is described as: "A bestseller for its universal slim fit, which *never feels too snug *_[Ed: Your mileage may vary]_ or looks too baggy. Cut low at the waist and close through the seat and thigh."


Reminds me of a women's Lee jeans commerical I heard a couple of weeks ago. Had different women saying things like "I want a pair of jeans that don't make me flash people when I bend over" and "I want a pair of jeans that aren't 'mom jeans,'" etc. So for all these women, Lee's Custom Jeans were for them. Of course, if your body isn't built for their 'custom jeans,' they're not going to work for you. So I guess the 514's never feel too snug if, you know, you can wear them without them feeling too snug.


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## JohnnyVegas (Nov 17, 2005)

I cannot, for the life of me, find a pair of Levi's which fit me well and that my girlfriend approve of. I have tread far outside of the realm of tradly denim at this point - I would like to say those jeans look fantastic, AlanC.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

JohnnyVegas said:


> I cannot, for the life of me, find a pair of Levi's which fit me well and that my girlfriend approve of.


Levis don't fit me well either although I wore them for years. I tried several brands before deciding that my best fit, at least in the brands that I tried, was with Lee jeans. Actually this turned out to be a bonus as they are about $10 cheaper than Levis and I haven't noticed any significant differences in construction or longevity.

Cruiser


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## zarathustra (Aug 24, 2006)

Acacian said:


> Exactly. Generally below 14th Street...


Haha... I hate venturing above 23rd St. I find that anything above that parallel requires additional clothing, as it is way too far north. :icon_smile:

I would submit that the jean phenomena is primary a winter thing for me, specifically in the sort of chic lounges. During the summer I am generally a GTH bright colors sort of guy and don't have any issue wearing this anywhere. Something about the city changes when the doldrums of winter set in.

I have yet to find an adequate substitute during the fall for a dark casual pant better than a pair of dark jeans here. Any suggestions? Perhaps a dark charcoal flannel slim cut trousers?


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

z -- For the "chic lounge", or any other smoove setting in the colder months, I think you're fine with charcoal wools/flannels or dark, inky denims. Probably the two best choices.

I find myself wearing jeans less and less, although I really like them, especially with a sport coat, tie, and bright shirt. 

I'm starting to notice people dressing up more in the city, maybe I'm crazy, or maybe it's just the cold weather. People generally seem much better dressed than last year.


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## SlowE30 (Mar 18, 2008)

I've had a few pairs of "relaxed fit" jeans for years, holdouts from my high school days. I picked up my first pair of 501's on sale a few days ago and haven't gotten around to shrinking them yet. 
I'm a slim guy (6', 173, 38R, generally "32Wx32"). I tried on several pairs of preshrunk jeans, and suddenly realized that years of running must have given me a bigger "seat" than I thought. Turns out I sort of NEED a relaxed fit jean to accomodate my rump and thighs, otherwise the jeans are stretched noticably and uncomfortably across my groin. To combat this, I bought the 501's 2 sizes bigger in the waist. I hope it works, because I'd like to move away from baggier clothes.


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## stylesnob (Feb 25, 2008)

AlanC said:


> Yes, the 514s are skinnier and a lower rise. They aren't 'shrink-to-fit', either, so the size you buy ought to be the size they stay at. These are 'rigids', are stiffer out of the box and a darker color. They're a standard cheap Levi's recommendation over at the SF Streetwear forum, a low end alternative/entry to the pricey denim.


Didn't know this... Thanks!

I recently got a pair of Paige Jeans. I normally would never spend this much money on Jeans (I think they are normally around $160-$200) but I got them on sale for $80. They fit well, and even though considered "trendy" they don't look like it which I actually prefer.


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

I know this is out of left field, but has anyone tried a pair of Cinch green label jeans? They are very reasonable- 3 pairs for $27.00ea, or about $40. a pair. They make several cuts, but the green label is a standard. The rise is almost up to the waist, and past the knee the leg is straight. That's what I like about 'em. Good fit, not tapered legs like the Levis 505/545. They do, however run large, so I wear one size smaller than Bills Khakis. The only drawback is they don't sell "dry" denim, but the dark wash is pretty dark.
These are available at any western wear store, and out here in West Texas, they're as popular as Wranglers.
Just my 2c- Mark


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## Marcus Brody (Oct 11, 2008)

Alan, 

What color are those? I was looking for some tumbled rigid 514s for a while, but couldn't find any in store to try on so ended up with whatever the darkest wash they have at the moment is.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^Those are whatever the tumbled rigid color is called. Dark indigo, or whatever. I ordered mine from Tilley's through Amazon. Do a Google or check the SF SW&D forum for somewhere that carries them.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

The 514s Alan posted a few weeks ago piqued my interest, so I went to my local Dillard's and tried them on to see if they'd work for me. No go; they were just too tight in the seat and thighs, and the rise was slightly low for my tastes. They did have the 505s in the same color, so I tried those on and found them to be a better fit.

When I tried them on and first started wearing them after pulling the trigger, they were still a nicely slim fit despite being what Levis calls "regular" fit. But after just a few hours of wearing them, they've stretched enough that I wonder if I might have been able to get away with the 514s, after all.










My only complaint is that I wish they were about half an inch to an inch longer. These are 30" inseam, and the 32s that I tried on were too long.


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## Pale Male (Mar 24, 2008)

*Just Say NO to Denim Below 23rd Street...*

Possibilities: Black Corduroy, Black Moleskin, Black Velvet, Black Gabardine, Black Canvas, Black Leather -- studded/striped or not and Chaps for the Bold, Brave, and/or Beautiful.

Charcoal Flannels. And a while back, Mizrahi made "jeans" out of gray flannel.

Surely other possibilities exist as well as the old standard Calvin Klein in Extra-Black -- at least not made out of hard, rough denim.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Nice jeans, Alan. I need to buy another pair soon. I may check out 514s and 505s. I haven't owned Levis is several years...opting instead for Gap jeans (their 1969 straight leg model fits me well). Nice to know too about the dark wash. I picked up a more worn looking pair the other day and my wife informed me that it's not "in" anymore...she'll be so pleased to know she's right!:icon_smile_big:

I am assuming briefs (as opposed to boxers) are a must for wearing 514s? I can usually get away wearing slimmer cut boxers with a lot of jeans, but the 514 and 505s look at though there would be too much tucking involved.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^I think 514s might be a good choice for you. Also, word is that the old standard 501s have a new cut that emulates the 514, so you might give them a go, too. And yes, avoid faded and distressed. Buy dark and don't wash them for a few months. Hang to dry. You really might consider some APC New Standards, although there's a bit of a price jump they are really nice.



Orgetorix said:


> But after just a few hours of wearing them, they've stretched enough that I wonder if I might have been able to get away with the 514s, after all.
> 
> https://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q163/jccavanaugh/DSCF5455.jpg
> 
> My only complaint is that I wish they were about half an inch to an inch longer. These are 30" inseam, and the 32s that I tried on were too long.


I think you probably could get away with the 514s. And I'm going to say to you what the fellows on SW&D have been tellilng me: wear your jeans lower. It will help solve your inseam issue, too (although a 32 might be the answer). I really like the monks with the jeans.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Can't go wrong with the Nudies or APCs. Dry Selvage denim is by far the best choice when it comes to jeans. I have several pairs (1 APC Rescue, 1 Nudie Regular Alf, and 1 Nudie Straight Sven) and couldn't be happier with them. I would say that the APC Rescues are the best jeans out there.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Orgetorix said:


> My only complaint is that I wish they were about half an inch to an inch longer. These are 30" inseam, and the 32s that I tried on were too long.


I always buy my jeans a couple of inches too long and then have them shortened to the exact length I want. It adds $10 to the cost, but to me it's worth it. I do this with khakis too.

Cruiser


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

TMMKC said:


> I haven't owned Levis is several years...opting instead for Gap jeans (their 1969 straight leg model fits me well).


I have a pair of those in selvage denim that they have sadly not done again. No matter, because they've held up and kept dark for over a year now! I only wish the rise were higher. On my torso, they look like hip huggers.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I never thought I would be one to like slim jeans, but I bought a pair from Gap over the summer(2008) and fell in love with them. They fit so well compared to other baggy/relaxed jeans I previously wore. I now like APC, and Martin & Osa jeans. I realize that not everyone is able to wear slim jeans, but for those who are able to, they are very flattering IMO.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

My problem with all the premium jeans is that the low rise makes tucking in anything ,let alone something like an ocbd, impossible.
Maybe it's just my (tall) torso.

The 501 cut is damn near ideal for me (I can wear slimmer, but am afraid it looks too trendy).

Now if they'd just make 501s with that nice APC denim...


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I do have issues periodically with tucking in certain shirts with jeans, but for the most part my shirts have very long tails so it doesn't happen. I like the low rise on jeans because anything higher creeps closer to the _Mom Jeans_ level of tackiness....that height scares me, literally, at least with jeans.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


>


yeah, if they were 2" longer, the fit would been great on you ... I am kinda giving up wearing jeans, after having realized that I am way more comfortable in khakis and I look better dressed. I wore (only) jeans afor about 6-7 years when I was in grad school and I am frankly bored with the look for now. Collared shirts and khakis for me now 

BTW, what shoes are you wearing with them? Alden shell monks? Whatever they are, they look great!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Mannix said:


> I do have issues periodically with tucking in certain shirts with jeans, but for the most part my shirts have very long tails so it doesn't happen. I like the low rise on jeans because anything higher creeps closer to the _Mom Jeans_ level of tackiness....that height scares me, literally, at least with jeans.


Higher rise, no mom jean vibe.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Now if they'd just make 501s with that nice APC denim...


You might try the Rescues, which I think are looser in fit/higher rise than the New Standards.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Now if they'd just make 501s with that nice APC denim...


They do, and they're better than APC's. You just have to work harder to find them, but the LVC (Levis Vintage Clothing) 501s in the 1947 cut are one of the best jeans made, particularly for the money. Made from shrink-to-fit Cone Mills (North Carolina) denim and selvedged. Levis mainline stores carry them, as does Blake in Portland, Oregon.

I generally buy them from here (in Germany): https://www.cultizm.com/product_inf...te-s-reg--BIG-E-1947-DRY-GOODS-501xx-LVC.html


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Orgetorix said:


> The 514s Alan posted a few weeks ago piqued my interest, so I went to my local Dillard's and tried them on to see if they'd work for me. No go; they were just too tight in the seat and thighs, and the rise was slightly low for my tastes. They did have the 505s in the same color, so I tried those on and found them to be a better fit.
> 
> When I tried them on and first started wearing them after pulling the trigger, they were still a nicely slim fit despite being what Levis calls "regular" fit. But after just a few hours of wearing them, they've stretched enough that I wonder if I might have been able to get away with the 514s, after all.
> 
> ...


...and after perhaps a half dozed washings, those Levis will be about a half inch shorter than they are now. I've experienced the same problem and have elected to just get the 32" inseam to solve it!


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

TradTeacher said:


> They do, and they're better than APC's. You just have to work harder to find them, but the LVC (Levis Vintage Clothing) 501s in the 1947 cut are one of the best jeans made, particularly for the money. Made from shrink-to-fit Cone Mills (North Carolina) denim and selvedged. Levis mainline stores carry them, as does Blake in Portland, Oregon.
> 
> I generally buy them from here (in Germany): https://www.cultizm.com/product_inf...te-s-reg--BIG-E-1947-DRY-GOODS-501xx-LVC.html


Don't know why I didn't think of that. I read on SW&D that they were blowing these out at the Levi's stores, so if you have one close to you you might check. I think they were somewhere around $50. If anyone finds some you could probably find some interested buyers here.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> I tried several brands before deciding that my best fit, at least in the brands that I tried, was with Lee jeans.
> 
> Cruiser


Which Lee jean model did you buy, Cruiser? I've never had much luck in finding a style that fit me well. They either fit well in the thighs and seat, but are way too big in the waist...or vice versa. The price point of Lee jeans is appealing, especially if you're just wearing them to knock around in. I currently own one pair, but they're pretty much releated to yard work (with the kind of tapered leg that was in style 10+ years ago...hence, not many public appearances except at the hardware store and garden center!)

Great suggestions for new (to me) brands of jeans! I did a couple quick Google searches last night for APC jeans, but I failed to find a site that listed retailers. It can be tricky to find a good fit with jeans, so I won't order any online. I'd like to find a Kansas City-area retailer that carries them. Any ideas? Bueller? Bueller?


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

AlanC said:


> Don't know why I didn't think of that. I read on SW&D that they were blowing these out at the Levi's stores, so if you have one close to you you might check. I think they were somewhere around $50. If anyone finds some you could probably find some interested buyers here.


They're all over eBay. Type in "lvc 1947".


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Could someone kindly please explain to this old fogey what the hell selvedge jeans are? I know what a selvedge is - cloth has selvedges so it won't unravel. What's that got to do with blue jeans?

Likewise, what does tumbled rigid mean?

To me blue jeans are the pants I wear in the yard, shop, or garage. I have a few pair but I don't know their model numbers.

Just curious. Thanks,

Scott


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

TMMKC said:


> I'd like to find a Kansas City-area retailer that carries them. Any ideas? Bueller? Bueller?


Yeah, I've done some searching without a lot of success. Really, their ought to be, but I'm not sure there is. I've not been to the Hall's basement yet, but I think they carry other brands. The key on APCs is size down, as they are vanity sized (same on RRLs).


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Naval Gent said:


> Could someone kindly please explain to this old fogey what the hell selvedge jeans are? I know what a selvedge is - cloth has selvedges so it won't unravel. What's that got to do with blue jeans?
> 
> Likewise, what does tumbled rigid mean?


Take a look at the Wikipedia article on denim. Scroll down for a discussion of selvedge. Basically it's a throwback to early denim production methods. Most of it is Japan based, but the Cone mill in North Carolina apparently makes very good stuff. It's done in small batches, and runs expensive.

Raw denim is just that, it's not washed after production and has that 'new' denim sheen like Levi's 501 shrink to fits do. This is often described as 'rigid' as it has that new denim stiffness. Some of the heavy denim (eg, Samurai) is so stiff the new jeans can stand on their own.

The current ideal in denim is raw selvedge, which you then wear for some time (months) before washing. This process heightens the natural creasing/whiskering/fading, also heightened due to the denimi stiffness.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

Jovan said:


> Higher rise, no mom jean vibe.


I've tried one pair of higher rise jeans like the ones above, but they just don't sit right and they bother my hip bones due to the extra weight of the denim. I wear trousers with a high rise but they stay up without aching my hip bones because they're lighter in weight. I guess I'm going to stay with my low rise jeans...


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

TMMKC said:


> Which Lee jean model did you buy, Cruiser? I've never had much luck in finding a style that fit me well. They either fit well in the thighs and seat, but are way too big in the waist...or vice versa. The price point of Lee jeans is appealing, especially if you're just wearing them to knock around in. I currently own one pair, but they're pretty much releated to yard work (with the kind of tapered leg that was in style 10+ years ago...hence, not many public appearances except at the hardware store and garden center!)
> 
> Great suggestions for new (to me) brands of jeans! I did a couple quick Google searches last night for APC jeans, but I failed to find a site that listed retailers. It can be tricky to find a good fit with jeans, so I won't order any online. I'd like to find a Kansas City-area retailer that carries them. Any ideas? Bueller? Bueller?


Tobi.com sells APC jeans....that's the only place that I saw them.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

OiPolloi.com and contextclothing.com also sale APC. Context is great and the shipping is free and very fast in my experience with them.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

After reading a lot of the jean threads both here and on other forums and developing a small collection of designer jeans in my closet, I have recently found myself going back to basics and buying a few pair of -- get ready for it -- Kirkland brand jeans from Costco.

They are a good basic, straight leg jean that reminds me of the 501's I wore in high school (although they have a zipper and are not button-fly). They are a darker blue, so I can dress them up with a tweed jacket, OCBD and dirty bucks or other leather shoes and dress them down with tennis shoes and a t-shirt.

And best of all, they cost approximately $14 a pair :icon_smile:


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^Costco? Are you Bradford or Jan Libourel? :icon_smile_wink:


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

AlanC said:


> Raw denim is just that, it's not washed after production and has that 'new' denim sheen like Levi's 501 shrink to fits do. This is often described as 'rigid' as it has that new denim stiffness. Some of the heavy denim (eg, Samurai) is so stiff the new jeans can stand on their own.


Thanks, Alan. I used to look high and low for non-pre-worn out blue jeans, but now that I wear them only informally, I don't think I'd sweat it. I've been thinking about a pair of those Pointer Brand overalls, though.

I have some Filson double tin pants that WILL stand up by themselves, and they're really not very comfortable unless you're busting through a sawbriar patch.

Scott


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

Orgetorix said:


> My only complaint is that I wish they were about half an inch to an inch longer. These are 30" inseam, and the 32s that I tried on were too long.


Like Alan has said, don't "hike" your jeans up too much. I also like the look of the monks with the jeans, but you need a little more length. I'd go with the 32s, you could have them hemmed for the perfect length and a nice break. If you didn't want to hem, you could do a small cuff which is very popular right now. I think the cuff would lose some of the formal/dressy look and wouldn't work with monks. The cuffed look would definitely work with some desert boots though.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

Farinelli's in DC sells APC. Call and ask for Mauro or Christian (or Emily). Style Forum members get 25% off. 



And, yes, size down one on APC New Standard and two on Rescues.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

FYI, some TJMaxx and Marshall's have RRL jeans on markdown right now, some as low as $30/pair. These all retail for $200+, and are considered by the denim gurus at SF to be among the best denim around. The 'Straight Leg' cut may be of particular interest to folks here, as it is listed as having a higher rise and is more relaxed in the seat and thigh. Sadly, I have seen none in my area stores, but I have a pair on the way from a SF member.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I though RRL went out of business some time ago...


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^I don't think so. They apparently have a new(er) store on Melrose and another standalone in East Hampton. The pics on the blogs are pretty fun.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

One more thing on the RRLs, the sizing seems to be inconsistent across different styles. Check the waist on them before you buy. On some of them you'll need to size down one.


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## RipRoar (Jan 8, 2008)

Can you guys (AlanC, Trad Teacher, anyone) recommend a dark non-raw selvage pair of denim? I like the fit of APC Rescues, Nudie Average Joes, etc. but prefer not to undergo the break-in process. What can I say, I am impatient :icon_smile_big:. Also, would prefer that they stay nice and dark without whiskering or fading.

Have tried Levi's 514, and like them, but want something a bit nicer.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

RipRoar said:


> Can you guys (AlanC, Trad Teacher, anyone) recommend a dark non-raw selvage pair of denim? I like the fit of APC Rescues, Nudie Average Joes, etc. but prefer not to undergo the break-in process. What can I say, I am impatient :icon_smile_big:. Also, would prefer that they stay nice and dark without whiskering or fading.
> 
> Have tried Levi's 514, and like them, but want something a bit nicer.


Me too. Patience is not one of my virtues either.

Somewhat unrelated question....how many times you you guys wear a pair of jeans before laundering them? Under normal wear, I try to get 3-4 wearings out of mine.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

You probably need to look for a pair of one wash jeans. I know some of the RRLs are one wash. You need to check with some of the denim shops.

To keep them dark without fading over a long period you probably need to dry clean them.

How often to wash? The denim aficionados (and companies) say wear them for 3-6 months before washing in order to get the right fading. Others say that's overthinking it.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

TMMKC said:


> how many times you you guys wear a pair of jeans before laundering them? Under normal wear, I try to get 3-4 wearings out of mine.


For routine everyday wear I'll go 6-8 times, although that is with very easy wear. If I actually do any manual labor in them or otherwise get them dirty, I wash them afterward.

On the other hand if I'm dressing up a pair of jeans with a blazer or sport coat to go out, I put on a fresh pair that I haven't worn since washing, and then wear them 6-7 more times for everyday wear before washing again.

Cruiser


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

Well, they're out there. You can look at the Acne Mic, Kicking Mule Workshop 1950 or 1980 one-wash models (GREAT denim, and made in USA). Or, you could simply buy raw but wash/soak them more frequently. The 3-6 month wait-to-wash method only applies if you care about unique fading and creasing of the denim. Many hardcore denim addicts go with this method. If you don't care about that, buy raw but dry clean. They'll still stay dark but break in easily. Don't overthink raw denim. It's as wearable as anything else.

Oh, and to answer the question...I wash my raw denim every 2-3 months. I've owned many brands (APC, KMW, RRL, Levis, etc.), but my personal choice for the top denim is Iron Heart (Japanese) and Levis Vintage 1947 cut 501s. Iron Heart is truly amazing craftsmanship.

(**BTW, I've got two pair of APC New Standards I"m looking to sell. PM me for more info/pics)


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Same jeans, worn slightly lower on the hips. It definitely helps with the length issue.










The next pair I buy will be 514s in a longer inseam, and I'll either cuff them or have them cut down. I've been surprised how much these 505s have stretched out.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

^Looks good. I tired on some 514s yesterday and am considering them. I assume the 505s sit a little further up on the hips...more on the waistline?


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Better all around, O. Looks good.

But where's the pocket square?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Pocket square with jeans? I think that'd be dressing them up a little much.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Jovan said:


> Pocket square with jeans? I think that'd be dressing them up a little much.


Try it sometime, you'll be surprised.

Of course, it depends on the rest of the outfit too (shirt, shoes and type of sportcoat). For example, I never wear a PS with a (tweed or corduroy) sportcoat when I am wearing boots with the jeans. Also, I don't wear a PS if I am simply wearing a sweater (no collared shirt) under the sportcoat.

A navy blazer, white linen PS, dark wash jeans, crisp white shirt and some spiffy black shoes looks great, IMO.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I've tried it before and didn't care for it, personally.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> I assume the 505s sit a little further up on the hips...more on the waistline?


Correct.


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## RipRoar (Jan 8, 2008)

*Success!*

I picked up a pair of the aforementioned RRL straight legs at Marshall's for $50. _Super_ denim, and they are vanity sized with a moderate rise. I only sized down 1 (33 to 32) due to my -ahem- developed tush and thighs from cycling. You may be able to size down 2. The waistband itself actually fits relatively loose on me, like a 33-34, but everywhere else is perfect. Keep in mind, though, my perfect may be different than yours, so caveat emptor.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

RipRoar said:


> I picked up a pair of the aforementioned RRL straight legs at Marshall's for $50. _Super_ denim, and they are vanity sized with a moderate rise. I only sized down 1 (33 to 32) due to my -ahem- developed tush and thighs from cycling. You may be able to size down 2. The waistband itself actually fits relatively loose on me, like a 33-34, but everywhere else is perfect. Keep in mind, though, my perfect may be different than yours, so caveat emptor.


Why don't you just say it, you have a nice ass.  lol


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## RipRoar (Jan 8, 2008)

*Hey, you said it.*



Mannix said:


> Why don't you just say it, you have a nice ass.  lol


I mean to maintain a modicum of modesty, at minimum. :icon_smile_big:


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Congrats on the RRL pickup. I had to pay a bit of a premium on that for the pair that is on its way to me. You probably saved about $200 off retail.


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## Grayland (Oct 22, 2007)

RipRoar said:


> I picked up a pair of the aforementioned RRL straight legs at Marshall's for $50. _Super_ denim, and they are vanity sized with a moderate rise. I only sized down 1 (33 to 32) due to my -ahem- developed tush and thighs from cycling. You may be able to size down 2. The waistband itself actually fits relatively loose on me, like a 33-34, but everywhere else is perfect. Keep in mind, though, my perfect may be different than yours, so caveat emptor.


I did exactly the same thing. I'm a 33 w/ a 34 ass (and yes, it's spectacular) and I picked up the 32 RRL straight legs. Perfect fit for me. My first pair of high-end denim and I really like them quite a bit. So much, in fact, that I'll probably pick up a few more pairs at the discount price. I'm not sure I'll find a pair I like better. I'm impressed.


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## redmanca (May 29, 2008)

I picked up a pair of the RRl jeans this past Friday (thanks for the heads up Alan) at my local TJ Maxx. Unfortunately, they were the last pair in the store and I'm itching to get some more. Does anyone know if this was a one time deal or if TJ Maxx will be getting anymore anytime soon? I called my local store and they wouldn't tell me. 

Thanks,

Conor


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I think it's unlikely they'll get more real soon. However, you might check ebay or the Style Forum Buying & Selling forum. You'll pay more than at TJMaxx, but a lot less than retail. Still, it's worth keeping an open eye.


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

I have some LVC 501s in the '47 cut that I"ll be selling very, very soon (shameless plug)...


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