# The forging of a custom camp knife.



## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Greetings all,

For those with a general 'how it's made' interest, or simply an appreciation for traditional craftsmanship, I thought I'd share with you some work-in-progress pics detailing the forging and finishing of a custom camp knife.

By way of background, I have been a custom knife enthusiast an collector for over 25 years. I have written a dozen or more articles for various custom knife publications (yes, such things exist) and lectured at seminars and symposiums (again, yes, this is something real).

In more recent years, the subject of one of my articles - a talented bladesmith and now good friend by the name of Dan Farr - began to teach me the craft. My first few efforts were surprisingly serviceable. Over the course of a long weekend a summer or two ago, Dan and I, together with a mutial friend and bladesmith Matt Gregory got it in our heads to attemt to complete a knife from start to finish within the 72 hours available to us. The design was left up to me - and Matt and I would do most of the forging and grinding, with Dan using the shaping of the handle as a teaching opportunity.

I really wanted to make was something along the lines of the Rojo Camp Knife - a design by ABS Master Smith Jerry Fisk - which is one of the best large camp knives ever designed, IMHO. Dan thought I was being ambitious, Matt thought I was nuts (to attempt such a large piece in such a short time), but that's what I wanted to make.

I didn't want to try to do an exact copy, but rather an _homage_,if you will, to one of my favorite Fisk knives - heck, one of my favorite knives, period. I planned a similar blade profile, but a handle design that borrowed elemnts from Fisk, Farr and my own handle designs on past knives (at that stage, all 2 of them ).

An outline of the blade shape and a big honkin' piece of steel were our starting points:

Matt makes a start:

This is a looong blade - good thing this forge has a back door:

It really helps to be able to tag-team the hammer. Here I am working back toward the ricasso,pulling down the steel to form the widest part of the blade:

This process naturally tends to curve the blade - think scmiitar - which is not what we were after. Here, Matt straightens out the spine of the blade by whacking the edge with a 2 by 4. Very high-tech.

A knife-like object slowly emerges:

More to come.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Next step was surface grinding the ricasso to give us a nice solid flat foundation from which to build. 



Apart from cleaning off some forging scale, this would be the end of my grinding - as I SUCK at it - and we were really aiming to get this big baby done by Sunday night. Putting a clean flat grind on a blade of this dimensions was no easy task, but Matt was up to the challenge.



Resembling a knife a little bit more:



Skipping forward a couple steps, because you may well be feeling that this is taking forever already - here we are heating the beast - which we had dubbed "Mojo" at this point - getting ready for the quench. Got to get a nice even bright orange glow...



Then hold your breath:



You listen carefully during the quench (being careful not to singe your ears) making sure that you don't hear the dreaded 'ping' sound that indicates that the blade has cracked. That sound is utterly terminal - it means you have invested sveral hours crafting a piece of scrap steel and have to start again.

We didn't hear that sound.

The purpose of the quench is to rapidly cool - and hence harden - the blade steel. This is done at a point when the grinding / shaping of the blade is nearly complete as it is MUCH harder to grind hardened steel.

Next, we get the blade into the sunlight and give it a real close look for any slight warpage - the window of opportunity to correct same is very small. It did warp slightly, but we got it straight right quick.



After the blade cooled, we got it reeeeaaall cool by giving it a liquid nitro cryo nap. I'll spare you all the metalurgical whys and wherefors of this step and just point out that you really don't want to dip your fingers into this stuff.



That's one frosty Mojo my friends:




More to come, but questions and comments are most welcome at any stage.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Roger I am deeply impressed. I know a little about the process as the son of one of my best friends has his own forge and anvil - he's only made nails so far though. You must have a knack for this kind of craft - I'm looking forward to seeing the finished blade. There is something quite seductive about knives. :redface:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

RogerP: It seems that each time I read one of your posts, I find myself looking forward to reading your next offering, so that I might be further blessed by getting to know you better. This present thread promises to be one of the most fascinating with which we have been gifted with in the Interchange in quite a long time. I can't wait to read your next installment!


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

That's very interesting Roger.

What grade of steel did you use, and what is the purpose of the nitrogen treatment? I would guess it has a hardening effect, but haven't seen this done before.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks gents - much appreciated. Langham, 1095 tool steel was used. In broad terms, the liquid nitrogen treatment assists in the full through-hardening of the steel (converting austentite to martensite in the steel's crystal structure).


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Overall design was left up to me and now it was time to turn to the handle. It really helps to trace out the near-completed blade and tang and sketch the handle around that.

This is what I came up with. Dan didn't laugh and Matt didn't give me that "Are you nuts?" look, so we were good to go. I wanted some handle drop, but nothing extreme - I was willing to trade some power for speed (the more a handle is dropped or angled down and away from being level with the spine of the blade, the more pwerful chopping blow it can deliver - think Khukri - one of the most devastating chopping blades ever designed, but one that does not change direction very well).

Since I was already there and all, I decided to re-profile the handle of my hunter (shown above) - but I'm trying to keep the detours to a minimum so we'll leave that for another time.

This shot of drawing out the spine gives a pretty good look at the distal taper - or the reduction in blade thickness as you move from the guard to the tip of the blade. It was a primary design goal that this BIG knife be fast and well-balanced - the kind of piece where you pick it up and your eyes tell you that you are holding way more knife than your hands feel. That taper was forged in, with the symmetry perfectly maintained by Matt throughout the grinding.

Drawing out the spine serves a significant functional purpose in a big blade like this. The harder steel is, the more abrasion resistant and hence the grater ability to hold a keen edge through prolonged use. But harder also means more brittle. In order to resist shattering, a blade of this size would have to be made very thick - but that would also make it very heavy and unwieldly. The solution is one truck upon by Japanese swordsmiths centuries ago - make the cutting edge hard, but make the spine comparatively soft - the result is a wickedly sharp but resilient cutting implement. They went about it in a different way, but suffice to say that differential hardening was the goal there as here. By heating the spine area of the blade (while keeping the cutting edge submerged in water) then allowing it to cool slowly, the spine is rendered softer - and thus stronger. Rapid cooling = hardening, slow cooling = softening, in overly simplified terms.

WARNING - the following contains explicit images of wood porn - if you are not at least 18 years of age, proceed no further.

....

Okay gents - check out the figure on this block of black walnut gun stock: 

Getting closer with the blade....

A solid hunk of 416 stainless to be used for the guard, surface ground perfectly flat on both sides:

Dan cutting into that gorgeous hunk of walnut.

I have a real love / hate relationship with hand-rubbed satin finishes. The first stages (in our case 220 then 320 grit sandpaper) can be sooooo frustrating - rub, rub , rub, rub, and you feel that you are getting nowhere. Those blasted little scratches in the plunge cuts will never come out. This is grunt work, pure and simple. My hands hurt. I want my mommy!

But when you finally get it clean with everything running north /south and move on to the higher grits (in our case, 400 then 600) it is just sooooo rewarding to see that fine, even sheen emerge.

But any way you slice it is a lot of work. "Why couldn't you ^%$ing well decide to do a &^%ing "homage" to a ^%$ing little knife you &^%$#%??!!" Juast to put it in perspective, a hunting knife with blade dimensions of 4" long by 1" wide yields a notional (knife aren't rectangular) surface area of 4 quare inches that need to be tediously polished. This blade is fully 12" long
by 2" wide - so about six times the surface area.

Friends again:


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Mine is a cheap "Big Bowie" type, but those large knives are surprisingly handy for the minor landscaping chores around the house (vines, minor pruning of bushes, etc.) where power cutters and clippers just don't quite fit. Yours ought to last for generations. Great work.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Quite possibly the best post I've seen on the internet is a very long time.... Excellent stuff Roger, more please!

Between this and Shaver running around the fields of Yorkshire, it's leaving me a little...... um, needing a new hobby!


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks gents.

phyrpower - very insightful comments. These knives can perform at a level beyond the expectation of most. The American Bladesmith Society intrdocued a series of cutting competitions several years ago as a means of educating the public about the performance capabilities of a custom forged blade. One of the contests was a timed tasl of chopping through a 2 by 4. I believe the record was 4 seconds. Impressive.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Continuing with the build.

Milling a slot for the stainless steel guard - when you have a digital readout that measures to 1 / 10,000th of an inch, you watch it very carefully and turn the slide wheel very slowly:



The mill doing its thing:



Drilling the hole in the wood block that will form the handle to accommodate the tang of the blade. This will be secured within the wood block both by epoxy and by a metal pin.



The drilled hole is then further escavated with these handy-dandy tools:



The block of walnut and ebony spacer were then clamped to the soldered guard with a super strong super secret epoxy, the details of which are only known to us Groundborne Special Ops Mall Ninja Bladesmiths. I could tell you, but then... you know... 

Suffice it to say that this stuff is so strong that the only way to remove the handle once the epoxy has set is to cut / grind it off.



This took us to late Saturday night - we retired to let the epoxy set overnight.
The next morning we still had a gorgeous block of wood, but the ergonomics needed some work. 



Thus commenced Dan's advanced course in handle shaping and finishing.
A tracing of the handle is outlined on the block and rough-formed on the band saw:



Then off to the grinder to learn about handle shaping from someone justifiably renowned for it:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

You have to have a plan and you have to go slowly. You can progressively take material away, but you can't put any back.

Dan's approach is to grind and shape the handle and guard together, such that they form a cohesive and seamless unit.

The dimensions, shape and contours of the handle are key elements in the ultimate performance of the blade.

You will see that the blade is covered with several layers of thick tape. This served two purposes. The first is to protect my hands from the blade. Even though not fully sharpened, it is more than sharp enough to wreck my day. The second is to protect the freshly polished blae finish from accidental contact with the grinder. Been there, done that. Starting the blade finishing process from scratch is no fun. Been there, done that, lesson learned.



The next several shots will show the handle slowly taking shape:







Duke takes only mild exception to Matt interrupting some quality lap-time to consult with Dan on the progress of the handle.





Which is progressing quite nicely:


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Roger - thank you for putting together this thread. Very interesting and impressive. I don't mean to interupt the flow of your story, but I have some rookie questions for you:

1) Setting aside highly specialized blades, what are the general characteristics of a top-quality knife? You mentioned that your inspiration for this design came from a knife that you regard as one of the best ever - what makes it such? 

2) Is this a field that continues to develop as technology progresses? I suspect that technology makes the process easier, but is a knife today better than 50 years ago or is is somewhat like art in which styles change but the product isn't necessary "better?"

3) How did you get into it? Seems like something that involves a lot of expertise and equipment.

4) You mention an anxious moment when cooling the blade. If the dreaded ping occurs, is it an indication that you messed up in your process or that the raw material was inherently flawed? 

I look forward to the remainder of your story and pictures of the final product.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

pleasehelp said:


> Roger - thank you for putting together this thread. Very interesting and impressive. I don't mean to interupt the flow of your story, but I have some rookie questions for you:....


Great questions, I'll do my best to answer.

1) I'll limit this response to elements that define a top quality forged fixed blade. Elements which define, say, a top quality slipjoint folder will be different. For a knife like the one being made here, quality is informed by:

a) Quality steel, properly forged and heat treated, and differentially hardened.
b) Sound functional design (no design elements which inhibit performance - all design elements support the performance goals of the knife).
c) Attractive aesthetic design - pleasing lines and proportions.
d) Blade dimensions (including thickness, width, length, distal taper).
e) Convex edge, properly sharpened, and with neither too much nor too little blade thickness (mass) behind the edge.
f) Clean grinds - no dips, hollows or waves, even plunge cuts.
g) Clean, even blade finish. Soft satin sheen with the brushed strokes running consistently parallel along the length of the blade.
h) Quality handle material - top grade wood, stag, fossil ivory.
i) Ergonomic handle design - offering secure grip through impact, resistance to blade twisting, and comfort through prolonged use.
j) Balance - the knife should not have too much mass overall, and that mass should not be distributed in such a way to create too much forward balance or make the knife too handle heavy. For a knife this size, a balance point 1" to 1 1/2" ahead of the guard is ideal.

I could go on ad nauseam about the Fisk knife I referenced as a standard ( I can hear someone muttering 'too late!') but lets just say it excels in all the above areas and adds a handle design that is an ergonomic wonder.

2) Yes - the field is very dynamic - bladesmiths across the globe are setting new levels of excellence and innovation in both design and execution. Knives today are decidedly better than those 50 years ago (speaking in generalizations) - better steels are available and quality organized instruction in the craft is more widely available.

3) I've been interested in knives for almost as long as I can remember, but got into making when I was takes with writing a maker profile for Blade Magazine on Dan Farr. I interviewed Dan and toured his shop, and he invited me back to let me try my hand at making a knife under his instruction. A friendship developed from there. A fair degree of equipment is needed, but beyond a forge, anvil and hammers, it's a question of want versus need. A lot can be done by hand, but not as easily as with machines. There are 1-week introduction to bladesmithing courses available under the auspices of the American Bladesmith Society that will have you understanding how to make a knife at the end of the session. I believe they are taught in Maine, Virginia and Arkansas.

4) Yes - that ping is most often cause by a defect in the steel (inclusion or void).


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

RogerP said:


> Great questions, I'll do my best to answer.
> 
> 1) I'll limit this response to elements that define a top quality forged fixed blade. Elements which define, say, a top quality slipjoint folder will be different. For a knife like the one being made here, quality is informed by:
> 
> ...


Very interesting. Thank you.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Drilling holes for the lanyard and pin is a bit of a nail-biting experience. You sure don't want the wood to splinter. This was a step we should have taken earlier on in the handle shaping process so that it would be easier to remedy a slip-up without altering the final shape of the handle. Oh well, here goes.

Dan drills the lanyard hole:



I drill the hole for the pin, Matt holds his breath, Dan can't even watch.



Okay we can all exhale - nice and clean.



Insert and epoxy the lanyard tube and pin, clean up the handle and blade, and at 7:30 pm Sunday, we're as done as we're going to get without spilling over to Monday.







The handle finish was not quite complete at this stage - there were some tiny voids that would be filled and a final finish put on the handle. 

This was an incredibly rewarding project for me personally, and I am grateful to Dan and Matt for the opportunity. Starting from a design of my own, the aesthetics, dimensions and ergonomics are all VERY close to what I had envisioned and it was very gratifying to see that come to fruition in such a short period of time.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Here are some pics of the knife with the final handle finishing completed and the custom leather sheath that I had fabricated by one of the top American sheathmakers - Paul Long:





And a couple pro shots of the knife, including one with the hunting knife I had made before.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Absolutely stunning results! RogerP, with your permission, you are hereby added to my list of "Do-it-yourself" hero's/mentors. Your talents obviously extend far beyond just dressing well! :thumbs-up:


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

It looks fantastic. Thank you again for putting together this story and sharing those pictures.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks gents - glad you enjoyed the thread. It was fun for me to look back over the process, though it made me tired just thinking about it.


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

WOW!.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Impressive indeed Counsel!


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## Ekphrastic (Oct 4, 2009)

That walnut is nothing short of stunning--I belong to a guitar-making forum, and the guys over there would salivate to see that chunk.

Interestingly enough, electric guitar pickups are also sometimes treated with liquid nitrogen; it's a controversial subject, since some people think it's just hocus-pocus, but I think the benefits are there.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Roger..... what can I say? You are an effin' hero! I am *seriously* impressed. What an amazingly beautiful looking object that knife is.

This is one of the finest pieces of original content around these fora in a long while, take a bow Sir. :icon_hailthee:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks again guys.

Shaver - that is most kind - thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed the thread.

Ekphrastic - if you liked that piece of walnut, you'll love this big hunk of claro that I have put aside for a multi-knife matched set:



And check out this Koa board that I have already put to use:


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Apologies if this appears twice. I'm having some posting problems. Roger - does anyone actually use these knives or are they really for display? I'm sure they are quite capable if you were to try to use them, but I can't imagine someone venturing off into the woods with such a fine piece...


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

pleasehelp said:


> Apologies if this appears twice. I'm having some posting problems. Roger - does anyone actually use these knives or are they really for display? I'm sure they are quite capable if you were to try to use them, but I can't imagine someone venturing off into the woods with such a fine piece...


Short answer is yes, they are definitely used. But I never stop at a short answer. :tongue2: While the majority of the knives in my collection are safe queens, there are several that I routinely use, and as a consequence they are among my favourites.

This ivory handled and engraved hunter was made by Dan Farr:

It has been my constant companion on wingshooting trips over the last several years:

The hunting knife that I made and showed earlier in this thread has dressed out at least a half dozen deer, and is none the worse for the wear (I'll omit pics of the knife in that application in consideration of the squeamish).

The big camp knives are great for trail clearing, and as we hike several miles of woodland trails on Dan's property, pretty much everyone pitches in cutting vines or chopping low hanging branches. Heck, we'll chop through some fairly thick logs just for the fun and exercise:

Of course, a knife can't solve all the problems you might find on the trails: :biggrin:

As a maker, it is all but essential that you use your own knives for their intended applications. It's the only way you can know that they are performing at a level that exceed your customers' expectations.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Interesting stuff. Thank you.


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## scholl43 (Jul 22, 2013)

wow, yeah, pretty amazing and unexpected thread.


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## Ekphrastic (Oct 4, 2009)

That claro walnut is the stuff that dreams are made of. The curl on that...!


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## SirJono (Mar 31, 2013)

Thoroughly enjoyed this thread. Thanks for sharing Roger!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I trust the members (and especially the moderators!) will forgive my seemingly gratuitous bumping of this thread. Tucked away, as it is, in the Interchange I fear that newer members may not have gained opportunity to enjoy what is, to my mind, one of the worthiest examples of user generated content we have been lucky enough to have bestowed upon us here on the AAAC forums.


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## Stubbly (Jul 26, 2013)

Shaver said:


> I trust the members (and especially the moderators!) will forgive my seemingly gratuitous bumping of this thread. Tucked away, as it is, in the Interchange I fear that newer members may not have gained opportunity to enjoy what is, to my mind, one of the worthiest examples of user generated content we have been lucky enough to have bestowed upon us here on the AAAC forums.


This is a wonderful thread, and eminently bump-worthy.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

This RogerP guy is quite the renaissance man. And not in the overused way we hear applied to too many guys who are not. 

I mean, he really is. :icon_hailthee:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Thanks for the bump and the additional comments, gents.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

RogerP said:


> Thanks for the bump and the additional comments, gents.


Just a thought my friend but would you have any ideas as to a good knife maker for fellow member Tocqueville (who started his own thread concerning kitchen knives)?


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

justonemore said:


> Just a thought my friend but would you have any ideas as to a good knife maker for fellow member Tocqueville (who started his own thread concerning kitchen knives)?


I'll have a look at the thread and see. I know Burt Foster to be a supremely talented Master Bladesmith, who also does some terrific kitchen knives:

www.BurtFoster.com

Very pricey if you are used to factory-made stuff, though.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Fantastic stuff, RogerP. Really terrific. Thank you for sharing.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I trust the members (and especially the moderators!) will forgive my seemingly gratuitous bumping of this thread. Tucked away, as it is, in the Interchange I fear that newer members may not have gained opportunity to enjoy what is, to my mind, one of the worthiest examples of user generated content we have been lucky enough to have bestowed upon us here on the AAAC forums.


I am convinced that it is high time to bump this thread anew and firmly believe that the more recent additions to our membership will be able to enjoy this presentation as much as I.

Bump!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Thank-you for doing this. It is an impressive display and well worth looking at more than once. Well done, gentlemen.


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## Dcr5468 (Jul 11, 2015)

Very very impressive. My brother scavenged a huge anvil -we are mulling over trying this after watching “forged in fire” numerous times


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

A truly impressive craftsman, for sure. I keep hoping to see RogerP appear on the Forged In Fire series on the History channel, making another of his fine edged instruments!


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Thanks for bringing this back. I am an aficionado of hand made and traditional craft items of all types. Seeing someone take the time to work and love an item into existence from raw materials restores the soul. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

This is a great thread. Been interested in knife making in the mid to late 70s. Bought a book about it. Sadly, never did anything about it. In shop class in 69 or 70 I started making one that never got finished. For got about that one. Grabbed a planer blade for making one that was going to be thrown away. It was half the length. Don't do a lot with my hands. But I like to do stuff now and then. The library threw away a whole bunch of books, which was completely foolish because there are many ways to achieve something and it is good see different methods so one can create one's own method.
In the National Geographic magazine they showed where Japanese men were making lots of swords. They would take a baseball size of steel and get it white hot. Then they would pound it into a sword fast enough so that they wouldn't need to reheat to finish. These might have been made for the military.
Thanks RogerP for making this thread. Some of us are not desk jockeys.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I once took two classes of sixth graders to the Pacific Asia Museum in Pasadena. That year they had an exhibit on the Japanese sword. When we got back to school, I asked the boys how many of them now wanted to go spend six years as apprentice blade smiths. About 2/3's raised their hands!


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Bladesmithing is definitely on the rise - I know three or four guys who are pretty serious blacksmiths/bladesmiths. We have a smithy right in downtown Atlanta, Goat & Hammer, which offers classes up to a pretty advanced level, and they provide forges, tools, facilities and so on for intown smiths (who may lack space for a forge) to use.

I think it's an extension of the Maker Movement, men (primarily by a huge margin) getting back to actually *making* and *fixing* things. Frankly, it's one of the better features of Millennial culture. It's interesting, Makers kind of diverge into two paths, one focused on technology (I've gone to workshops in quantum computing and robotics at Maker collectives, for example), and one veering way into almost medieval skills: smithing, making chain mail, varieties of woodcraft, and so on. We'll likely see better and better offerings in the realm of both collectible and practical knives.

DH


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Reflecting back on the money I paid to various farriers throughout the years our daughters were into horses, and acknowledging that that was a time I spent far more keeping horses properly shod than I spent on my own shoes (or on podiatrists), I will tell you, there is a considerable amount of money to be made in the forge. Bladesmithing is a hobby that can pay big,...but they earn every penny of it! LOL.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

A program on TV had part of a program about a Canadian blacksmith. He learned from his grandfather and father. They just showed him, rarely any words were ever said. 
One historic group wanted to make a replica of a sailing vessel, and they heard about him. All of these experts designing this ship or large boat and whatever else they did changed every part of that vessel that didn't fit what he. He was the only one that was authentic. The others were all guessing. The guy must be retired now or extra retired.
A popular singer from the sixties /seventies, it was his program. Don't remember his name or the name of the TV program. I think it ran in the nineties. A Canadian TV program.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

The Forged in Fire series has really done a lot to bring the art and craft of bladesmithing to a much broader audience. I watch the shows with my daughter, and get a kick out of the fact that she can see a lot of mistakes coming before they happen. "Dad, he's not going to quench that in water, is he?" "Dad, he'd better stop hammering that steel, it is way too cold." My girl! 

She also gets a kick out of the fact that she has met a couple of the judges when attending knife shows with me. And that I know maybe one in five contestants personally.

I am amazed at what these guys can accomplish in the short time allotments. A lot of corners are cut (pardon the pun) and have to be - but I doubt I could even come close to finishing a blade in such a compressed time period.

Thanks for the comments, gents.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

For anyone who might be interested in the state of the craft generally, while I couldn't be more pleased with my own creation it is perhaps one level above what could be described as a "basic" forged camp knife.

The most basic would be something like this piece that Matt (from the opening series of photos) made for me. A guardless full tang knife with scales affixed around the full width of the tang.

And heading up the complexity scale, this damascus camp knife with full takedown construction (and using a block from that amazing Koa board pictured earlier in the thread for the handle material). The knife can be fully disassembled for cleaning or repair / refinishing - similar in concept to a Japanese sword:

And of speaking of Japanese swords, there is a Canadian Bladesmith who is producing some truly impressive contemporary examples of that storied craft:

This large tanto that Stuart made for me uses an antique _tsuba_ - or guard - from the Edo period Japan.

And finally, an outlier from my collection but one that I absolutely love is this rendition of a Native American war hawk:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Phew!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Indeed, RogerP has quite the collection of edged utensils/weaponry....Very impressive works of art!


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Some blacksmiths take a thin piece of steel and sandwich it between metal and pound it until it is weldered together. The slim piece of steel is the cutting edge. It also makes it easier to sharpen. For a slick, chisels, shears, pruners, etc. this steel is placed on one side instead of sandwiched. Have you ever done this, Roger?


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^ I haven't done that form of construction - called _San mai - _but I have owned knives made that way. The primary benefit is when a stainless steel outer shell is combined with a carbon steel core. That way you get the benefits of stainless steel over the bulk of the blade - stain and corrosion resistance - with a sharp and easily re-sharpened carbon steel cutting edge.

The knife below is an example:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Gorgeous!


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

That is a beautiful knife. 
Never thought of doing that with stainless steel before. Now that you mentioned it that is a better idea. 
Read that all two or three pieces have to be white hot, or they won't weld together.
Read or heard that the steel needs to be buried in the hot coals so no oxygen touches the metal until pounded or sunk into liquid for tempering. 
Have you ever heard of TMDowed? Not sure that is how his name is spelled. Knife maker from Oregon back in the seventies. Always wanted one of his knives.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Forge welding stainless to carbon is not easy. Only a handful of makers that I know of do it. The aesthetics are really cool when you get it right.

Many just think it's not worth the effort from a practical standpoint, though. If you just look after your carbon steel blade - clean it after use, store it with a light coat of oil - corrosion is a non issue. And light staining on a blade you actually use as a working knife - no biggie. All my using knives are carbon.

TM Dowell might be the name of the maker you have in mind? Now passed away. You can see some of his work here:


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

That would be him. 
Don't know if he pounded steel as Blacksmiths do. But he made superior knives. They would have cutting contest of sheet rock and his would last way longer. He taught math at a community College and some figured that he mathematical figured out how to temper the metal. However he did it, he kept it secret. So I read. Figured he would have died by now, or be close to it.
The knowledge of metals and steel are so far advanced today it is amazing what can be done today.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Ted's knives were all stock removal - not forged - but they were fine blades indeed. Both methods can produce superb blades - assuming a superb maker, of course. But the knives tend to have different properties.

The benefits of forging are more important in larger blades - bowies and swords and such. First, being able to shape and bend the steel with a hammer results in greater control and economy of material. Second, the forging process naturally lends itself to distal taper - or the gradual reduction in thickness of the blade from guard to tip - which imparts better balance. Finally, a carbon steel blade can be differentially hardened - with the spine left softer than the hard cutting edge. The harder the steel the more brittle the steel. A fully through-hardened sword would shatter on impact.

For a smaller knife - say, a hunting knife - those factors are less significant. And here, a stock removal stainless blade would generally provide greater wear / abrasion resistance than a forged carbon steel blade, and thus hold its edge longer. The superior stain and corrosion resistance of stainless steel would also come into play here. The downside is that the very properties which make highly abrasion and wear-resistant steels hold an edge for so long also makes them very difficult to re-sharpen when they eventually go dull.


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