# Removing Shoes In The Home



## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

What are your thoughts on being asked to remove your shoes in another person's home? Aside from more formal events, of course, where that would seem quite odd, I think... (but perhaps it happens on those occasions too?) 

It seems that recently, more and more parents are concerned about little ones picking up germs from "street dirt", which I can understand, but standing around at a dinner party in a coat, tie and bare socks seems weird to me.


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

Has no one else been asked to do this? Is this a New York thing?


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## Long Way of Drums (Feb 15, 2006)

I can't imagine why you would ever wear shoes at home. I've known people who do this, and I do not at all understand it.

I'd imagine formal events might be another matter.

"Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."

"Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keels. Makes her home."

*We will not walk in fear, one of another.*


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## Tyto (Sep 22, 2004)

Not a New York thing so much as an Asian thing. 

All of my in-laws (who are Asian) and Asian friends subscribe to this practice. They generally have a shoe rack by the door(s), they wear slippers indoors or trundle around in socks, and you can usually eat off of their floors. However, for formal occasions, my in-laws usually allow shoes.

__________

Fair and softly goes far.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Haven't we had this one before? Or was that on SF? My own view simply stated is that if I were going as a guest to an Asian household where this is traditional and customary, I would comply as a gentleman should.

HOWEVER, if it were an "Occidental" household and this were merely to humor a host or (more probably) hostess who was simply a "clean freak" or dementedly child protective (I hadn't heard the "street dirt" rationale before), I would refuse to comply, and if push came to shove, I would leave! I will concede that some of my attitude may come from being a Southern Californian, where foul weather merely means there is some rainwater on the pavement. I have heard that in more northerly climes, where guests may arrive with their footgear coated in filthy city snow, this is somewhat more customary.

This demented overprotectiveness toward children these days is a worthy topic of discussion in its own right. Perhaps I should start a thread on it here one of these days.


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## m kielty (Dec 22, 2005)

I always ask guests to remove their shoes unless it is an "event"
and there are just too many guests to spend time with explaining.


mk


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## jeansguy (Jul 29, 2003)

I can't imagine waiting to be asked to remove my shoes. It is standard practice. Perhaps that is just becuase for 7 months of the year we have slush and snow on our shoes and the habit just carries over to summer.

www.thegenuineman.com


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_
> but standing around at a dinner party in a coat, tie and bare socks seems weird to me.


It is weird - unless you are in Asia.
Cheers


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

As I've said on other threads discussing this topic, I dislike being asked to remove my shoes at a party at a private home in the U.S. It's not what we did when I was growing up, and it's not what was typically done in the social milieu of my parents and grandparents.

Exceptions are: visiting a family of Japanese or other Asian background, snowy conditions, or visiting a country house if we've been out walking in muddy fields or pastures.

At my own home I do remove my shoes and wear slippers most of the time, because it's more comfortable, but I would not ask guests to remove their shoes. Some of them do anyway, but that's up to them.


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Long Way of Drums_
> 
> I can't imagine why you would ever wear shoes at home. I've known people who do this, and I do not at all understand it.
> 
> I'd imagine formal events might be another matter.


I never wear shoes in my own home -- and for informal gatherings of a few good friends at their homes or mine, we often/usually shed shoes just for comfort. But an actual 'occasion' is different, I'd think.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

_Other_ people?! In _my_ house?! [:0][:0][:0]


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

I have never been asked to remove my shoes.

Often I will without being asked if we have been outside hunting, fishing, or otherwise muddying our footwear. In fact that is fairly common. I suspect if I lived in the Great White North during snow season the same would be true.

But during fair weather? Rarely if ever, and those few times are when I am _very_ close friends with the person or thier family (my home is thier home, and vice versa).

And with this one Asian I know...


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

We recently stopped in at a colleague's house after going to the gym and it was apparent after being there for a short while that it was a "no shoes" household. (Garden clogs by the back door, socked residents).

I'm very thankful that they didn't ask us to take off our shoes, though. The gym. You know. Ew.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

Unless it is a formal tradition, like Japan, I think it is rude to ask someone to remove their shoes before coming into the house, just as it is rude for a guest to not properly wipe his dirty shoes on the mat.


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## marc_au (Apr 22, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by manicturncoat_
> 
> Unless it is a formal tradition, like Japan, I think it is rude to ask someone to remove their shoes before coming into the house, just as it is rude for a guest to not properly wipe his dirty shoes on the mat.


ditto.

l would be pretty unhappy if l were asked to remove my shoes. lf they offered me slippers they would have to be brand new with a leather sole. l would not wear any type of footwear with a rubber sole.

l'm wearing my blake stitched leather sole slippers tonight actually. And i've got a beautiful pair of handmade shoes on a piece of paper on my computer desk so l can check em out while l read the forum.[]

*GR8MAN (The Shooman) B8MAN.*


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## Boris (Aug 4, 2005)

I personally find this ritual offensive (absent in cultures where this is expected) although I do comply on those rare occasions when it is apparent that shoes are being removed. I don't wear soiled shoes in my home, they're clean, so I wouldn't wear soiled shoes in someone elses. Did anyone ever hear of mats? I don't intend on wearing slippers that have been on other peoples feet. Don't ask. You want my shoes off? I'm fine with my socks. I know they're cleaner than your slippers. You have a problem with kids "street dirt" issue? What room do you keep the little nipper locked up in (I'm sure in a plastic bubble)? When the kid leaves the house I wouldn't be surprised to find him chewing gum off a sidewalk. Kids are kids. Get a grip.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

I remeber the great _Curb Your Enthusiasm_ episode where Larry David visits the the ex pornstars house for dinner(45 minutes late), the host asks him to remove his shoes and Larry David refuses outright, he then accidentally breaks a lamp and the wife goes ballistic on him.


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## BertieW (Jan 17, 2006)

My brother and his wife subscribe to this practise. I always find it a little silly and annoying, especially after the time one of the other guests "accidentally" (we assume) mistook my shoes for his and made off with them. They were returned, but in the meanwhile I was padding about in my stockings in the cold garage hunting for my property. 

Outside of Asia, this has always struck me as a bit precious and middle brow, with all due respect.

********************************
"It's about time some publicly-spirited person told you where to get off. The trouble with you, Spode, is that just because you've succeeded in convincing a handful of half-wits to disfigure the London scene by going about in black shorts, you think you're someone."


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by BertieW_
> 
> Outside of Asia, this has always struck me as a bit precious and middle brow, with all due respect.


I agree.

Floors are meant to be walked on. They are easily cleaned...and I have very pale flooring. (Although it's obviously polite to remove muddy boots without being asked).


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## dah328 (Sep 27, 2003)

I think it's just an anal thing. I've been asked by several non-Asian owners of apartments with hardwood floors in the middle of summer when there was no rain/snow/slush to remove my shoes. Among other sensible reasons, my trousers are tailored to be worn with shoes and I have no desire to walk around dragging my cuffs on the floor. I think from here on out, I'm going to follow Jan's lead.


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

After living in asia for the last 20 years, I can't imagine wearing shoes in my own home. Apart from the fact that some streets are truly filthy, it is also a matter of comfort. Your feet need time to relax! If I were ever to live in the states (unlikely) I'd certainly give people advance notice of a 'no shoes' policy and then it would be up to them if they accepted an invitation or not.

AZTEC

**************************************


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

This is a topic that is near and not dear to my heart.

My wife is amazing. She is funny, intelligent, warm, reasonable, puts up with thousands of my peccadilloes.

On this subject, however, she is an absolute maniac. Shoes OFF in the house. No exceptions. No argument.

I grew up wearing shoes inside and am still having trouble remembering to "de-shoe" upon entering. We have indeed had many social getherings in our house with all of the guests in socks. I find it a little embarrassing, but nobody seems too put out. They continue to come over, at any rate. Maybe they are more sympathetic because we have a young child and live in NYC, which might as well change its motto to: What's That Smell? Hey, It's Urine!

My mother-in-law is a hardcore germaphobe--I think she was traumatized by a cholera epidemic she lived through in Russia. My wife has picked up a few of these tendencies. Her grandmother was even worse--she kept a special glove for wearing when touching the handles on her refrigerator and cabinets.

Marriage...you pick your battles. I can put up with it.


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## Hugh Morrison (May 24, 2005)

There are several people of my acquaintance who insist on this. Two are people who have bought houses with very light coloured carpeting who don't want it spoiled. I can sort of understand this.

The other two actually CHOSE light coloured carpeting for their houses! I personally dislike having to take shoes off and think you should just have easily cleanable floors or floors that don't show the dirt. Asking people to use the mat is all you should have to do.

I think there are three reasons for this: 1. our modern fixation with 'hygiene' and turning the home into a sterile environment to 'protect' us from evil germs, and 2. a prissy anal fixation with living in a 'magazine showhome' instead of a comfortable, worn in, welcoming environment, and 3. Women, usually the dominant figure in the modern household, being more used to wearing easily removed shoes or shoes that they want to take off anyway because they are uncomfortable (high heels etc).

'The casual idea is the triumph of misguided egalitarianism. By playing to the desire to seem non-judgmental, the Slob has succeeded in forcing his tastes on the world at large (because to object to inappropriate dress would be judgmental)'- Patrick07690


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

This is a custom that I put into the, "plastic on the sofa" category.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Hugh Morrison_
> 
> I think there are three reasons for this: 1. our modern fixation with 'hygiene' and turning the home into a sterile environment to 'protect' us from evil germs, and 2. a prissy anal fixation with living in a 'magazine showhome' instead of a comfortable, worn in, welcoming environment, and 3. Women, usually the dominant figure in the modern household, being more used to wearing easily removed shoes or shoes that they want to take off anyway because they are uncomfortable (high heels etc).


Yes, however if I want to take off high heels in my house, I don't expect everyone else to do it too.

I see Brownshoe's wife's point, especially in NYC and with a toddler. Having street dirt tracked onto a pale carpet is particularly annoying.

However, as hygiene goes, my parents just told me not to lick the floor. This is a really valuable lesson for children.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> Haven't we had this one before? Or was that on SF? My own view simply stated is that if I were going as a guest to an Asian household where this is traditional and customary, I would comply as a gentleman should.
> 
> ...


A gentleman complies with his host's requests, whether they are Asian, "Occidental" or Martian. To do otherwise reeks of the worst kind of boorishness, the kind that would even consider taking it to the point of "push comes to shove".

It is, by the way, erroneous to think this custom is confined to Asia; it is also customary throughout much of eastern Europe and Russia.

Esse Quam Videre


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by rip_
> 
> A gentleman complies with his host's requests, whether they are Asian, "Occidental" or Martian. To do otherwise reeks of the worst kind of boorishness, the kind that would even consider taking it to the point of "push comes to shove".
> 
> ...


I hadn't thought about this before, but it is curious that people will accept the practice from an "Asian" household, but be less tolerant otherwise. Why does the legitimacy of the practice depend on whether it's culture-specific or family-specific?


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
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Somewhat officious and prissy.

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those cultures that expect guests to remove their shoes before entering another's house do so, not for reasons of hygiene or cleanliness, although the habit may have its roots in such concerns, but for reasons of decorum: it is considered rude to enter another's house shod. In most instances, it is not considered rude in American culture to remain shod when entering another's house; thus, it is a mere affectation to require one's guests to remove their shoes before entering one's home. Compelled participation in an affectation is always suspect. For instance, would it not seem odd if one's standard-issue American host provided one with chopsticks to eat western dishes at a dinner party? I believe it would

However, having given this matter a good deal of thought, I have decided that, henceforth, no one shall enter my dwelling save in a state of pristine nudity. Why stop at shoes? Halfway measures are worse than none. I shall install lockers and a communal shower in the front courtyard, so that my guests can disrobe and bathe before entering my home; thus, I shall have no need to fear that they will befoul my elegant abode with their verminous persons. As a byproduct I expect that, in future, I shall save a good deal of money on entertaining. Two birds. One stone.

"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em." Louis Armstrong.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

My two closest friends from business school practice this. I don't know if it's driven by young children, or the urge to keep an expensive house clean. I can't say I really see the point.

Although I once did get silently upset when a visitor to our house bypassed the mat outside the front door, walked through the vestibule between the outer and inner door, and then calmly wiped his boots on the antique Bidjar we have just inside. That carpet's built to take it, but that action struck me as more than a little cavalier.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by rip_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, frankly, I do take umbrage at a demand (and that's what it is) that I remove any item of my apparel (unless it were from a seductive woman back in my bachelor days [}]). If this is in deference to ancient tradition, I would be more inclined to assent, in the same vein as I would wear a hat when visiting a synagogue, even though that is contrary to my usual practice in a house of worship. However, if it merely to defer to the personal idiosyncracies and health-crank notions of the host, then such a demand does get my back up. To my mind, it differs only in degree from an unexpected announcement that the host wants have a 1970s-style nude encounter session or a game of strip poker!

I will say that I am pragmatic enough that if my shoes were in fact filthy, then of course I would remove them out of simple decency and consideration. However, in the milieu in which I exist, I would have hard time imagining myself arriving at any sort of soiree with with my footgear caked in mud!


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

JLibourel, weren't you planning to start another social topic? I can't remember the exact subject but I remember it sounded interesting.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
> JLibourel, weren't you planning to start another social topic? I can't remember the exact subject but I remember it sounded interesting.


Well, I was planning to hasten home with food and medicine for my poor, sick stepson, but since you asked, it will appear forthwith...


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## m kielty (Dec 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

Here in Singapore - predominately asian - we remove our shoes before we enter any dwelling. Whether out of habit or social practice I can't say. Even when western friends visit they do it as a matter of course.
Asked an elderly lady about it (because of this thread). What she said was interesting. Apparently spirits (asians do seem to have more than their fair share) follow you about when you are out. On returning home and removing the shoes they are confused (the spirits not the asians ) thereby leaving them at the doorstep. For what its worth.

When I die cremate me and put me in a jar - a tobacco jar.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

The phenomenon of taking one's shoes off may be tied to colder climates. Almost everyone I know in Michigan takes their shoes off when entering someone's home, or at least, asks before entering someone's home with shoes on. Mud, dirt and salt are everywhere in the winter, and when having guests over your rug, carpet and hardwoods would quickly be ruined under their combined assault.

I visited my wife's relatives in Florida recently, and found the custom to be the other way around. Everyone wore shoes inside, even the owners of the house. 



Good/Fast/Cheap - Pick Two


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## Wimsey (Jan 28, 2006)

If you just go around barefoot, this is not an issue. 

This may be more common in the north - I've certainly seen it here more than I did when I lived in the south. I basically comply with my hosts' wishes, since they are the hosts. And I think that for people who have houses like that, it is more than an affectation...while it may not be a feature of the culture in which they were raised, there are certain advantages to this practice which I think they have come to appreciate.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I live in Michigan, and only a few people I know ask for shoe removal. I do it and don't think twice about it. (I would if everyone was dressed up, but most of the situations I go to in the houses of others are casual.)

I do not make people take their shoes off at my house.

LOL at Yckwmia's thoughts!! This would certainly cut the entertainment budget!!! (I don't always agree with your politics, but that WAS a good one!)


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## scrollkey (Sep 22, 2003)

I had never even heard of this practice (outside Asia) until another thread on the topic a while back. I can't say I've ever been asked to remove my shoes upon entering someone's house.

I remember some arguments in that thread supporting the practice were that one would track mud, snow, etc. But, really, does anyone go tramping through a pasture before a party? Most people - at least those I know - make sure there is a clear path to the door. I've been to parties in snow, rain, etc. and never really had a problem with soiled shoes, town or country.

Cheers,
Russ


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2005)

i still find it a little weird to take off my shoes when entering the houses of other foriegners here (when we would clearly wear shoes in each others houses back in home countries) - still it is whats done.

i went to a friends party the other night, he is irish, 40-odd ppl there, 80-odd shoes at the door.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by dah328_
> 
> I think it's just an anal thing.


...and then...



> quote:
> 
> Among other sensible reasons, my trousers are tailored to be worn with shoes and I have no desire to walk around dragging my cuffs on the floor.


I love contradictions!


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

A family who are among our dearest friends have everyone who enters their home remove their shoes. They are wonderful fun people who can be counted on without question. They are also anal about this shoe thing, but we're glad to comply.


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## dah328 (Sep 27, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Teacher_
> 
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So preferring not to drag my trouser cuffs along the floor is somehow an anal thing?


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

No more or less than a host preferring that their floor not be dirtied by your shoes.


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## Boris (Aug 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by dah328_
> 
> I Among other sensible reasons, my trousers are tailored to be worn with shoes and I have no desire to walk around dragging my cuffs on the floor.


How do you expect those people to keep their floors clean if you won't take off your shoes and let your cuffs "buff" the floor. I'm sure a Super 110 would put on a great shine. You'd need to get your trousers cleaned after though.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mano_
> 
> A family who are among our dearest friends have everyone who enters their home remove their shoes. They are wonderful fun people who can be counted on without question. They are also anal about this shoe thing, but we're glad to comply.


As long as you know ahead of time and aren't bothered, it's not a problem, really.

I'd prefer to know this beforehand, as a guest. Just to make sure my socks are attractive.


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