# Peak vs. notch lapels on a tuxedo



## davidthirdkill (Jul 6, 2005)

People here seem to think that a notch lapel is unacceptable.

Why, then, did the tux salesman at Barneys tell me that the notch is the most traditional and classic style of tuxedo?


----------



## joal (Jan 18, 2006)

Either:

A) He didn't know what he was talking about,
B) He was just trying to sell it to you, or
C) Both A) and B)


----------



## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

At least they had the good sense to put the guy on their homepage in a peaked lapel jacket:

https://www.barneys.com/index_flash.html

That dude who told you that a notch lapel is the most traditional is called a SALESman for a reason.


----------



## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by davidthirdkill_
> 
> People here seem to think that a notch lapel is unacceptable.
> 
> Why, then, did the tux salesman at Barneys tell me that the notch is the most traditional and classic style of tuxedo?


He probably just makes it up as he goes along. There is absolutely no basis in fact for this statement. One can either assume that he was using unethical sales techniques or that he was truly just ignorant of the history of semi-formal dress. I think it was probably a combination of the two.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


----------



## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

The worst type of salemen are those that also foister hirewear on the unsuspecting public. A friend of mine is getting married outdoors in a black suit with grey waistcoat and tie (okay not perfect, but passable) but with a wing collar shirt! No doubt the hire saleman had a dozen photos in his catelogue to support his recommendation. Yep, he knows best!


----------



## lameduck (Jan 6, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by davidthirdkill_
> 
> People here seem to think that a notch lapel is unacceptable.
> 
> Why, then, did the tux salesman at Barneys tell me that the notch is the most traditional and classic style of tuxedo?


David, that salesman needs shooting.

Regards


----------



## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

I just noticed that this thread is already 6 months old. I'm afraid David may have already been persuaded by this evil salesman at Barneys

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


----------



## AMVanquish (May 24, 2005)

Didn't someone post some pictures of a catalog from 1930 a few months ago, showing a notch lapel tux? One may have even been a tailcoat.

I say we let all the throngs and masses follow the Hollywood crowd with their long ties and their notch lapels. It just makes us look that much better.


----------



## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

What a tragedy! How can a post like this have gone unnoticed for such a long time? 
Perhaps we could have helped avoid a tragedy if we had only had more notice.

It's like calling 911 and getting a response 6 months later. 

Best regards, Bill


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Peak vs. notch lapels on a tuxedo?

Why would somebody want plain old notched lapels on a not so plain coat? Peak or shawl it the way to go.


----------



## passingtime (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by WA_
> Why would somebody want plain old notched lapels on a not so plain coat? Peak or shawl it the way to go.


I agree with this, the tuxedo is pure costume and as such it should look different. The problem lies in people either stay in their comfort zones and getting a coat with a notched lapel like all their lounge suits, or seeing peaked lapels in general as old-fashioned.


----------



## Leon (Apr 16, 2005)

The DJ has had a short history and been subject to quite a lot of variation. Double breasted versions were once looked down upon.

I have still not had a convincing explanation for how double breasted revers are correct on single breasted jackets.

Here we see Prince Phillip in a DJ with single breasted revers, Tony Blair in a single breasted coat with double breasted lapels. But, wherever you stand on the lapel issue, Putin looks the worst with his collar attached wing collar, and pre-tied buckled bow tie.

https://imageshack.us

Leon


----------



## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

It's herd mentality. People watch the Golden Globes and see someone wearing a notch and think it's proper. They go out to a club and see someone wearing duckbill shoes and decide to get them. 

I maintain that we all get to wear whatever we want to. If you wear a notch because you believe it to be the original tuxedo then bully for you (thanks for that one Manton!), but I suspect most wear them because of what they've seen on TV or someone not really in the know told them.


----------



## boomerchop (Nov 30, 2005)

They wear them for two reasons. First, ignorance, and they think that anything with a silk/satin lapel is a dinner jacket. Second, because the notch collar is what is commonly available, seemingly, in most stores. 

It is because of forums like this I am becoming much more satorially savvy (avoiding the ignorance), but I find it difficult to locate peak lapel dinner jackets (my preference over the shawl collar). I will continue my search because I desire to be proper in all things.

"...without a Respectable Navy, Alas America!"
Captain John Paul Jones, 17 October 1776, in a letter to Robert Morris.


----------



## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

We did a survey on this awhile back
80% Voted Peak
20% Shawl

Notch is a bad choice because it makes the formal tuxedo just look like a simple black suit.

I think the most sophisticated look would present the midnight blue DJ, single button, peak lapel, as Midnight blue appears black at night where black can appear greenish. The Duke was dead on with this color choice.


Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style


----------



## floutist (Jan 9, 2006)

I have been told over and over, that short men (I'm five foot seven,) should avoid peak lapels. Why? They make us look, 'shorter.' I've tried to figure this out for myself . . . doesn't seem to make sense.


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quoteutin looks the worst with his collar attached wing collar, and pre-tied buckled bow tie.


Wouldn't they have trained him in KGB Finishing School to show shirt cuff?


----------



## mdellison (Sep 24, 2005)

Well then if peak/shawl is the answer what about the "notch" 3-button BB offering? It appears to be one of their main tux jackets. Why would they further the error?

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ection_Id=235&Product_Id=850446&Parent_Id=216


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I don't have one... though James Bond does!

END OF LINE.

www.thefedoralounge.com


----------



## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by mdellison_
> 
> Well then if peak/shawl is the answer what about the "notch" 3-button BB offering? It appears to be one of their main tux jackets. Why would they further the error?
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ection_Id=235&Product_Id=850446&Parent_Id=216


Because it sells


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'll confess I don't know the difference between the peak, the notch and the shawl.

Is the notch lapel similar to the lapel you see on most sport coats and suits?


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> I'll confess I don't know the difference between the peak, the notch and the shawl.
> 
> Is the notch lapel similar to the lapel you see on most sport coats and suits?


Shawl Lapels:

Peak Lapels:

Notch Lapels: (look away, mine eyes)


----------



## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

You've turned me to stone man!


----------



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mdellison_
> 
> Well then if peak/shawl is the answer what about the "notch" 3-button BB offering? It appears to be one of their main tux jackets. *Why would they further the error?*


----------



## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

I doubt if anyone still working at BroBroClo knows any better.


------------------------
Fortuna elegantes adiuvit.


----------



## General Koskov (Jan 2, 2004)

I think that if one is a regular DJ-wearer (and one should be, damn it!) one may bespeak a notch-lapel jacket to rotate amongst his others. After all, the notch lapel is, when abstracted from several buttons, overly long sleeves, pocket flaps, and horrid clip on ties (or four-in-hands), not all that bad.

And, as I've said before, the notch-lapel DJ has its place amongst the DJs of yesteryear. There is no basis to the statement that notch-lapel DJs are a modern fabrication in order to use pre-made silhouettes for business suits.

All that said, the only DJ I've bespoken has peaked lapels. I'll wait until number 10 to get notched.

_At afternoon funerals, wear a frock coat and top hat. Should the funeral be your own, the hat may be dispensed with.
--The Cynic's Rules of Conduct. 1905 
_


----------



## passingtime (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mdellison_
> 
> Well then if peak/shawl is the answer what about the "notch" 3-button BB offering? It appears to be one of their main tux jackets. Why would they further the error?


Because the world has turned and notch lapel jackets are now the mainstream, not my choice but just the way it is. I don't have a notch lapel nor do I want to buy one, but one day I might be forced to if fashion changes to far - I don't want to end up looking like a character out of a costume drama.


----------



## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by passingtime_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is true and is the nature of the "rules". As tuxedos are still being made with notch lapels they have not yet become clothes for costume parties. Likewise could be said for duckbill shoes, but I suspect we will lose them before too long.


----------



## passingtime (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by maxnharry_
> Likewise could be said for duckbill shoes, but I suspect we will lose them before too long.


I concur, shoes are much more suceptible fashion, winklepickers anyone?


----------



## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Ironically while BB has too become a source of bad formalwear, they remain one of the last sources for proper formal footwear.

In the US that is.


----------



## DressPRMex (Jun 20, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mdellison_
> 
> Well then if peak/shawl is the answer what about the "notch" 3-button BB offering? It appears to be one of their main tux jackets. Why would they further the error?
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ection_Id=235&Product_Id=850446&Parent_Id=216


I could only count one button on this one!!! Still, I don't like it at all!


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I can see the peak lapel and believe I understand what a notch lapel is. (Aren't most business suits notch lapels?"

I can't see the shawl that well, but it appears to not have any notches or anything cut in it. Is it called a shawl because it just surrounds the collar with no peaks or notches like a shawl might?

I almost never wear formal clothing and apologize for my lack of knowledge.


----------



## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

Does anyone have any experience with the Press tuxedo? Is the peak a horizontal peak similar to the one pictured on this thread or is it a more traditional vertical peak? Thanks for the help.


----------



## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by floutist_
> 
> I have been told over and over, that short men (I'm five foot seven,) should avoid peak lapels. Why? They make us look, 'shorter.' I've tried to figure this out for myself . . . doesn't seem to make sense.


I have heard just the opposite, that peaks make you look taller.

I would think the width of the lapel would matter more for short, thin, men though.

Narrow being more important than peak vs shawl.

---------------------

Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

Neither peak nor notched make you look taller or shorter... It all depends on the cut of the lapels and the stance of the buttons from what I have seen. Peaked lapels that are pointing horizontally flatten yu out, ones that point more vertically make you look a bit taller.

END OF LINE.

www.thefedoralounge.com


----------



## Allthingstrad (Jan 5, 2006)

​
While I do love my Burberry notched lapel S/B DJ, the gentleman to my right is at the pinnacle of trad.

"Since it's a traditional, preppy look it's best if balanced by a relatively small four-in-hand knot." He sips his martini, recrossing his legs. "Next question?"


----------

