# *Change We Can believe In*



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Well it seems like the left/liberals are beginning to have issues with Barry boy's continual shift to the right/conservative. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

As a slightly conservative independent I have enjoyed Obama's move to the center. The funny part of this is that the dems will help put McCain in the White House with crap like this. They nominated a candidate whose whole message is indeed "change". When he starts to act on his promise, a promise that got him nominated, they throw a fit?? My dad is a staunch republican, but we are both voting for Obama. He said months ago that "the dems will find a way to screw this up." Hope we see less of this.


----------



## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

I find this letter a bit odd, as the left on The Interchange often claim that there is no "left".

Obama keeps inching toward the center because his positions are not separating him from McCain. This lack of moving ahead is puzzling to the Democrats. Now his lefty/liberal base is getting upset at his attempts to appeal to middle of the political spectrum Americans.

This may not bode well for November.


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Asterix said:


> Well it seems like the left/liberals are beginning to have issues with Barry boy's continual shift to the right/conservative. :icon_smile_big:


I would suggest that calling an adult black male "boy" is entirely inappropriate.


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> I would suggest that calling an adult black male "boy" is entirely inappropriate.


If you don't have anything worthwhile to offer on the thread aside from trying to stir up racial rubbish, I'd suggest you kindly move on as I think people have better things to do with their time than to dwell on such an inconsequential thing.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Asterix said:


> If you don't have anything worthwhile to offer on the thread aside from trying to stir up racial rubbish, I'd suggest you kindly move on as I think people have better things to do with their time than to dwell on such an inconsequential thing.


I for one think that Jackmccullough raises a valid and pertinent point which can not be so readilly tossed aside. We must all live and be judged by our public utterances, and Asterix's was at best thoughtless and at worst reprehensible.

Buzz


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

I'll give you that calling an adult male running for president "boy" is slightly distasteful. I don't , however, see what Obama being a BLACK adult man has to do with him being called a "boy" in this situation.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

nolan50410 said:


> I'll give you that calling an adult male running for president "boy" is slightly distasteful. I don't , however, see what Obama being a BLACK adult man has to do with him being called a "boy" in this situation.


I am not African-American, but I have always understood that to call an adult African-American male "boy" is a common form of belittlement that often escapes from the lips of rascists. One might then assume from his message that Asterix is a rascist, however, I for one would never draw such a conclusion about someone I have never met.

I believe that we have each said something that we later regretted. The gentlemanly thing is not to lash out at the one who has identified your error, it is to apologize and move on.

Buzz


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

M6Classic said:


> I for one think that Jackmccullough raises a valid and pertinent point which can not be so readilly tossed aside. We must all live and be judged by our public utterances, and Asterix's was at best thoughtless and at worst reprehensible.
> 
> Buzz


What next? Placard carrying by you and your cohorts? As it seems you don't have better things to whine about, since my calling a fellow black man "boy" humorously is now what is giving you a hard-on. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

M6Classic said:


> I am not African-American, but I have always understood that to call an adult African-American male "boy" is a common form of belittlement that often escapes from the lips of rascists. One might then assume from his message that Asterix is a rascist, however, I for one would never draw such a conclusion about someone I have never met.
> 
> I believe that we have each said something that we later regretted. The gentlemanly thing is not to lash out at the one who has identified your error, it is to apologize and move on.
> 
> Buzz


Maybe thats some form of a slur somewhere. Here in Mississippi, probably the most racist state in the country, I've never heard the word "boy" used for racial purposes. There are a lot of words, believe you me, but boy is not one of them. That's not to say it isn't elsewhere.


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

M6Classic said:


> I am not African-American, but I have always understood that to call an adult African-American male "boy" is a common form of belittlement that often escapes from the lips of rascists. One might then assume from his message that Asterix is a rascist, however, I for one would never draw such a conclusion about someone I have never met.
> 
> I believe that we have each said something that we later regretted. The gentlemanly thing is not to lash out at the one who has identified your error, it is to apologize and move on.
> 
> Buzz


I knew such rubbish would start oozing from the mouth of closet racists like you who need any excuse to pretend to be the defenders of blacks. For your information, I have more in common with Barack Hussein Osama than most of you his adoring fans on AAAC do but instead of focusing on the core message of the posting, you are desperately trying to dredge up something out of a non issue just so as to look like you have something noteworthy to say. Any intelligent person can tell that I used the "boy" to indicate my disdain for him but not for racial disparaging.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

nolan50410 said:


> Maybe thats some form of a slur somewhere. Here in Mississippi, probably the most racist state in the country, I've never heard the word "boy" used for racial purposes. There are a lot of words, believe you me, but boy is not one of them. That's not to say it isn't elsewhere.


Perhaps an experiment is in order. Would you go out and call the first African-American you encounter, "Boy," then come back and report to us on his reaction?

Buzz


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Asterix said:


> I knew such rubbish would start oozing from the mouth of closet racists like you who need any excuse to pretend to be the defenders of blacks. For your information, I have more in common with Barack Hussein Osama than most of you his adoring fans on AAAC do but instead of focusing on the core message of the posting, you are desperately trying to dredge up something out of a non issue just so as to look like you have something noteworthy to say.


Gee I am sorry you feel that way. Just out of curiosity, why do you say that I am a closet rascist? You may be right, but how would you know?

I only wish you were as capable of self-reflection as you are capable of making baseless ad hominem attacks. You can declare your statement a "non issue," but you cannot make it go away so easily.

Buzz


----------



## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

I'm curious: what's the difference between calling Obama "Barry boy" and McCain "Johnny boy"? Would anybody be so upset at the latter? The "boy" was not standing by itself in Asterix's first post, so arguments on whether or not calling someone "boy" is racist or not seems moot.


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

M6Classic said:


> Gee I am sorry you feel that way. Just out of curiosity, why do you say that I am a closet rascist? You may be right, but how would you know?
> 
> I only wish you were as capable of self-reflection as you are capable of making baseless ad hominem attacks. You can declare your statement a "non issue," but you cannot make it go away so easily.
> 
> Buzz


Aside from the basic definition of ad hominem that some of you learnt on AAAC due to it being the defense cover for people like you to hide behind when called out, do you know that it also can be used to describe what you and your partner Jackmccullough are trying to stir up? As in trying to appeal to other reader's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to their intellect or reason with your cheap attempt at turning a simple news thread into a racially themed one? :icon_smile_big:


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

wnh said:


> I'm curious: what's the difference between calling Obama "Barry boy" and McCain "Johnny boy"? Would anybody be so upset at the latter? The "boy" was not standing by itself in Asterix's first post, so arguments on whether or not calling someone "boy" is racist or not seems moot.


Excellent point.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Asterix said:


> Aside from the basic definition of ad hominem that some of you learnt on AAAC due to it being the defense cover for people like you to hide behind when called out, do you know that it also can be used to describe what you and your partner Jackmccullough are trying to stir up? As in trying to appeal to other reader's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to their intellect or reason with your cheap attempt at turning a simple news thread into a racially themed one? :icon_smile_big:


I know exactly what ad hominem means, but thank you very much for your kind offer of assistance with my diction.

You know, Asterix, you used a term in reference to Barack Obama that many people I know would consider racially insensitive. Now you are lashing out at those who questioned its use. If you think it is perfectly fine to refer to Obama as, "Barry boy," then just make your point. If you are convincing, I will bow to your logic and better information.

Buzz


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

wnh said:


> I'm curious: what's the difference between calling Obama "Barry boy" and McCain "Johnny boy"? Would anybody be so upset at the latter? The "boy" was not standing by itself in Asterix's first post, so arguments on whether or not calling someone "boy" is racist or not seems moot.


Only a few hundred years of Black people being owned as slaves in the United States, and a longstanding use of the word to demean adult Black men. Nothing other than that.

Oh yes, and I have a hard time picturing conservatives sitting back at hearing McCain called "Johnny boy" without their going all nuts over demeaning his military record, attacking his heroism etc.


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

M6Classic said:


> I know exactly what ad hominem means, but thank you very much for your kind offer of assistance with my diction.
> 
> You know, Asterix, you used a term in reference to Barack Obama that many people I know would consider racially insensitive. Now you are lashing out at those who questioned its use. If you think it is perfectly fine to refer to Obama as, "Barry boy," then just make your point. If you are convincing, I will bow to your logic and better information.
> 
> Buzz


:deadhorse-a:


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> Only a few hundred years of Black people being owned as slaves in the United States, and a longstanding use of the word to demean adult Black men. Nothing other than that.


......and since you want to go down this slimy and slippery slope, which race of people did that to the blacks? Mine or yours?



jackmccullough said:


> Oh yes, and I have a hard time picturing conservatives sitting back at hearing McCain called "Johnny boy" without their going all nuts over demeaning his military record, attacking his heroism etc.


Are you serious?  Please do a google search for "Johnny boy McCain" and visit the 204,000 results.


----------



## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> Only a few hundred years of Black people being owned as slaves in the United States, and a longstanding use of the word to demean adult Black men. Nothing other than that.
> 
> Oh yes, and I have a hard time picturing conservatives sitting back at hearing McCain called "Johnny boy" without their going all nuts over demeaning his military record, attacking his heroism etc.


I still see quite a large difference in calling someone "Boy" to his face and referring to someone in the third person as "____ boy." The former can understandable be seen as racist (in this case, at least), while the latter seems to me more a slightly condescending nickname for someone you don't like, meant to somewhat subtly express your thoughts on the person without being completely explicit, and is in no way necessarily tied to race.


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Asterix said:


> ......and since you want to go down the slimy and slippery slope, which race of people did that to the blacks? Mine or yours?


It's hard for me to answer that question, since I don't know what your race is, and you presumably don't know mine. I also don't think it's relevant.

But wait, let me think for just a minute. Yes, it's almost coming clear now. Yes, I do believe the people who oppressed Black people in the United States for centuries, both during slavery and afterwards, were, let me just think one minute more now . . .

yes, I'm pretty sure they were white.



Asterix said:


> Are you serious?


Of course. Think back to the field day the wingers had when MoveOn mocked Petraius's name (not a tactic I agreed with, by the way).


----------



## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Asterix said:


> Well it seems like the left/liberals are beginning to have issues with Barry boy's continual shift to the right/conservative. :icon_smile_big:


I don't know about that, but it seems a group of editors at _The Nation _magazine is getting worried about this apparent shift. Who or what they speak for is certainly something to consider but I'm not sure they voice the opinion of an entire section of the political spectrum.

That being said it seems odd to me anyone would be surprised. The closer one gets to the election, movement towards what is considered the political center of the day is a defining quality of national politics in the US. This seems to happen in most presidential contests in one way or another. Its all about getting the votes, yes?

After the votes are counted, some find it tragic that the victor stays in the center while others are relieved.

Cordially,
Adrian Quay


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> It's hard for me to answer that question, since I don't know what your race is, and you presumably don't know mine. I also don't think it's relevant.
> 
> But wait, let me think for just a minute. Yes, it's almost coming clear now. Yes, I do believe the people who oppressed Black people in the United States for centuries, both during slavery and afterwards, were, let me just think one minute more now . . .
> 
> yes, I'm pretty sure they were white.


Jack, I think from the very nice picture of yourself that graces your blog, one can tell with over a 50% accuracy which race you are and from a couple of my responses to your lackey, M6Classic, you can tell which race I am. :icon_smile_wink:



jackmccullough said:


> Of course. Think back to the field day the wingers had when MoveOn mocked Petraius's name (not a tactic I agreed with, by the way).


 But what is the similarity in Petriaus' being called "Betray us" because some people felt he "betrayed" them in Iraq have in common with Barack being called "Barry Boy" and it being equated to a racial slur?


----------



## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

M6Classic said:


> I for one think that Jackmccullough raises a valid and pertinent point which can not be so readilly tossed aside. We must all live and be judged by our public utterances, and Asterix's was at best thoughtless and at worst reprehensible.
> 
> Buzz


Mr. McCullough suggested that it was inappropriate and I agree. Also, given the nature of The Interchange, I'd vote for "thoughtless" over "reprehensible" as it is very easy to toss off comments and hit "enter" before any additional thought or consideration is given. Given what little there is to go on in the OP it would seem to be an offhand slight instead of a window into anything else.

This all really does seem to be making much out of not so much. Anyone want to speak more about what the folks at _The Nation_ had to say?

Cordially,
A.Q.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Asterix said:


> Jack, I think from the very nice picture of yourself that graces your blog, one can tell with over a 50% accuracy which race you are and from a couple of my responses to *your lackey, M6Classic*, you can tell which race I am. :icon_smile_wink:


You know, Asterix, you might be able to relax a bit more if you got yourself a lackey of your own. :devil:

Buzz


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

M6Classic said:


> You know, Asterix, you might be able to relax a bit more if you got yourself a lackey of your own. :devil:
> 
> Buzz


You just might be right M6Classic! Are you offering your services? :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> Yes, I do believe the people who oppressed Black people in the United States for centuries, both during slavery and afterwards, were, let me just think one minute more now . . .
> 
> yes, I'm pretty sure they were white.


Except for the slaveholders in the US that were black.

(This is only true for African slaves brought to the US, which was about 5% of the total. As for the other 95% -- the Africans who were brought to other places in the Western hemisphere -- I am not sure about the races of those slaveholders.)

*Edit*: For the record, I positively deplore this reactionary, retrograde slur against "Johnny Boy" McCain, and demand an immediate apology on behalf of all Irish people everywhere. Or Scottish. Whatever.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

I agree that Obama should not be called a boy - even though I believe Asterix meant no harm. However I find it amusing that there seems to be no righteous indignation about Ludacris calling Hillary a *****, Bush mentally handicapped and that McCain should be paralyzed. Apparently Saint Obama is above reproach but demeaning Hillary and wishing further injury to McCain (apparently for Ludacris, McCain's injuries sustained in service to his country aren't enough) is perfectly acceptable. Apparently Obama has courted the support of Ludacris. Wonder when he will pull a Jeremiah Wright and disown Ludacris.

https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15972471

Karl


----------



## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

^ It is just a song and that article is almost two years old, well before Ludacris penned his latest silliness. Why get "indignant" about a song, much less righteously indignant?

Nevertheless, if we see Senator Obama singing this new song to his supporters at a rally next week that might be something else. 

Cordially,
A.Q.


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Karl89 said:


> Gents,
> 
> I agree that Obama should not be called a boy - even though I believe Asterix meant no harm. However I find it amusing that there seems to be no righteous indignation about Ludacris calling Hillary a *****, Bush mentally handicapped and that McCain should be paralyzed. Apparently Saint Obama is above reproach but demeaning Hillary and wishing further injury to McCain (apparently for Ludacris, McCain's injuries sustained in service to his country aren't enough) is perfectly acceptable. Apparently Obama has courted the support of Ludacris. Wonder when he will pull a Jeremiah Wright and disown Ludacris.
> 
> ...


Thanks Karl,

Below is an example of the deplorable images floating around as bumper cover/facebook images used by some Obama fans.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Quay,

The Horst Wessel Lied was just a song too. My point is that if one can become indigant over what Asterix posted than surely they would summon up outrage over Ludacris - refering to Obama as Barry boy is far less offensive (particularly when the intent was not racially motivated) than calling Hillary a *****, Bush mentally handicapped and wishing paralysis on McCain. If you think otherwise, fair enough, but you'd be wrong.

Karl


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Asterix said:


> You just might be right M6Classic! Are you offering your services [as Asterix's lackey]? :icon_smile_big:


God, *no*! I am the father of two teenagers, isn't that sufficient indentured servitude? :crazy:

Buzz


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> Gents,
> 
> I agree that Obama should not be called a boy - even though I believe Asterix meant no harm. However I find it amusing that there seems to be no *righteous indignation about* Ludacris *calling* Hillary a *****, *Bush mentally handicapped* and that McCain should be paralyzed. Apparently Saint Obama is above reproach but demeaning Hillary and wishing further injury to McCain (apparently for Ludacris, McCain's injuries sustained in service to his country aren't enough) is perfectly acceptable. Apparently Obama has courted the support of Ludacris. Wonder when he will pull a Jeremiah Wright and disown Ludacris.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more. Except for that stuff about Bush.

Buzz


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

M6C,

Well if you think Bush is mentally handicapped then you really shouldn't have a problem with someone using the term Barry boy. Think what you want but don't foist your hypocrisy on us.

Karl


----------



## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

To the OP, I'm quite happy that Obama is proving to be just another politician. It makes me fear him a lot less, and it bugs the hell out of his obnoxious supporters, which actually inclines me to like him a little.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> M6C,
> 
> Well if you think Bush is mentally handicapped then you really shouldn't have a problem with someone using the term Barry boy. Think what you want but don't foist your hypocrisy on us.
> 
> Karl


But then...weirdly...I do!

Buzz


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Phinn said:


> *Except for the slaveholders in the US that were black. *
> 
> (This is only true for African slaves brought to the US, which was about 5% of the total. As for the other 95% -- the Africans who were brought to other places in the Western hemisphere -- I am not sure about the races of those slaveholders.)
> 
> *Edit*: For the record, I positively deplore this reactionary, retrograde slur against "Johnny Boy" McCain, and demand an immediate apology on behalf of all Irish people everywhere. Or Scottish. Whatever.


I had not heard this before, so I had to look it up. 
Historian James Oakes notes that, "The evidence is overwhelming that the vast majority of black slaveholders were free men who purchased members of their families or who acted out of benevolence." In the early part of the 19th century, southern states made it increasingly difficult for any slaveholders to free slaves. Often the purchasers of family members were left with no choice but to maintain, on paper, the owner-slave relationship. In the 1850s "there were increasing efforts to restrict the right to hold bondsmen on the grounds that slaves should be kept 'as far as possible under the control of white men only." I'm not sure how much truth there is to Oakes' claims, just throwing this out there.

As far as the use of "boy" goes, I agree with wnh, Karl and the others that Asterix was not using this term in a racist way. I wouldn't call any man "boy" in person though, unless you are prepared to fight.

My wife and I visited the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Museum in Springfield, IL this past weekend. In one of the rooms they had collections of cartoons and newspaper quotes that called Lincoln everything from an idiot to Satan himself. Interesting to see that politics has not changed much. On that note, it's time for me to go vote in our primary.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

PedanticTurkey said:


> To the OP, I'm quite happy that Obama is proving to be just another politician. It makes me fear him a lot less, and it bugs the hell out of his obnoxious supporters, which actually inclines me to like him a little.


Your fear...or lack of fear...of Obama means almost as much as your vow to dismantle the New Deal when you are confirmed for your Supreme Court appointment.

Buzz


----------



## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

wnh said:


> I still see quite a large difference in calling someone "Boy" to his face and referring to someone in the third person as "____ boy." The former can understandable be seen as racist (in this case, at least), while the latter seems to me more a slightly condescending nickname for someone you don't like, meant to somewhat subtly express your thoughts on the person without being completely explicit, and is in no way necessarily tied to race.


Ex-freakin'-actly. "_____y Boy" is in no way comparable to "boy."

I might be inclined to think this was political correctness run amok, but past experience in this election cycle suggests that the real purpose is nothing but shamelessly advancing Obama's candidacy through any means necessary. If that means abandoning PC when it comes to Hillary or McCain, well, that doesn't seem to be a problem for Obama's supporters.


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

M6Classic said:


> God, *no*! * I am the father of two teenagers*, isn't that sufficient indentured servitude? :crazy:
> 
> Buzz


Alright, I'll let you off for that valid reason since as the father of a handful 2 year old myself (which as I have been told by people with more experience in the parenting world, is the initial phase of the lifetime of indentured servitude) I can empathize. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

PedanticTurkey said:


> but past experience in this election cycle suggests that the real purpose is nothing but shamelessly advancing Obama's candidacy through any means necessary.


Gee, kinda like what the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth did. Or, the people who spread the rumor about John McCain's African-American, out-of-wedlock child. Or the people who impugned the bravery and patriotism of Max Cleland.

Buzz


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Asterix said:


> Alright, I'll let you off for that valid reason since as the father of a handful 2 year old myself (which as I have been told by people with more experience in the parenting world, is the initial phase of the lifetime of indentured servitude) I can empathize. :icon_smile_big:


There is a period between the ages of four and sixteen when you actually get some sleep. Then they start to drive and you never sleep again for the rest of your life!

Actually, teenagers are kinda fun, you haver a lot of fun ahead of you. ic12337:

Buzz


----------



## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

PedanticTurkey said:


> I might be inclined to think this was political correctness run amok, but past experience in this election cycle suggests that the real purpose is nothing but shamelessly advancing Obama's candidacy through any means necessary. If that means abandoning PC when it comes to Hillary or McCain, well, that doesn't seem to be a problem for Obama's supporters.


In this case it conveniently (and effectively) hijacked the thread.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

M6C,

There is a difference between private groups advancing an agenda and a supposedly objective mainstream media advancing one. What Rove did to McCain, Kerry and Cleland was reprehensible and you won't find me defending it but Rove doesn't claim to be non-partisan, does he? Not only does the MSM give Obama a pass they also have given Edwards a free pass on what is increasingly looking like an affair and out of wedlock child. Meanwhile, an unnamed source was given front page coverage by the New York Times, in an unsubstianted allegation that McCain had an affair with a lobbyist. Perhaps thats what you call fair but if you do you'd be wrong.

Karl


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> M6C,
> 
> There is a difference between private groups advancing an agenda and a supposedly objective mainstream media advancing one. What Rove did to McCain, Kerry and Cleland was reprehensible and you won't find me defending it but Rove doesn't claim to be non-partisan, does he? Not only does the MSM give Obama a pass they also have given Edwards a free pass on what is increasingly looking like an affair and out of wedlock child. Meanwhile, an unnamed source was given front page coverage by the New York Times, in an unsubstianted allegation that McCain had an affair with a lobbyist. Perhaps thats what you call fair but if you do you'd be wrong.
> 
> Karl


Do you include Fox News (as I understand, Fox invented the terrorist fist bump) as mainstream media? What is MSM and for what and to whom is MSM giving passes? Is MSM like the political hall monitor?

I hope that everyone who engages in spreading false and malicious rumors...against Democratic and Republic candidtes alike...dies like Lee Atwater, begging for forgiveness.

Buzz


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

M6C,

Yes Fox is terrible in my view and I rarely watch it. And I hope everyone begs for forgiveness on their deatbed, as I have yet to meet anyone without sin although according to many Obama might be.

Karl


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> M6C,
> 
> Yes Fox is terrible in my view and I rarely watch it. And I hope everyone begs for forgiveness on their deatbed, as I have yet to meet anyone without sin although according to many Obama might be.
> 
> Karl


_Vimru_ amen.

Buzz


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

I don't really see the point.

Here are some key paragraphs from the open letter:

_We recognize that compromise is necessary in any democracy. We understand that the pressures brought to bear on those seeking the highest office are intense. But retreating from the stands that have been the signature of your campaign will weaken the movement whose vigorous backing you need in order to win and then deliver the change you have promised.

. . .

Stand firm on the principles you have so compellingly articulated, and you may succeed in bringing this country the change you've encouraged us to believe is possible.
_

Of course Obama's supporters on the Left will try to push him to hold true to his principles. That's what we should be doing.

It's also clear, though, that he (and we) can't satisfy you either way. Either he holds his ground and he's some kind of wild-eyed socialist, or he moves and he's a hypocrite. Either we accept whatever he does, making us delusional, hero-worshipping fanboys, or we push him to not move to the right, which makes us, what? Rigid, doctrinaire ideologues?

I guess you get to pick this time.


----------



## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

Yeah, Jack, it's almost like we took Obama seriously when he said all those things to win the lefty vote.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

PedanticTurkey said:


> Yeah, Jack, it's almost like we took Obama seriously when he said all those things to win the lefty vote.


Don't you just _LOVE_ our dear Turkey? How does he ever think of these witty posts, it is absolutely amazing! Not just witty, but oh so profound, too!

Why just the other day he challenged me to "put up or shut up." Get it? Put up or shut up! _It is to die! _ The only thing is, when I asked him what he wanted me to, "put up," he just disappeared and never answered my inquiry.

Hmmmm? Makes one wonder...maybe if the Turkey had his very own lackey...?

Buzz


----------



## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

The term "lackey" is derived from Medieval French _laquais_, meaning "foot soldier, footman, servant."

Your constant drumbeat calling for lackey-this and lackey-that is clearly a racist code-phrase, a thinly-veiled insult to John McCain and his military record and a reprehensible ethnic slur against his Franco-Irish-Scottish heritage.

(Though it's hard to say what he is, really-- those Frenchie Scotsman all look the same to me.)


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Phinn said:


> The term "lackey" is derived from Medieval French _laquais_, meaning "foot soldier, footman, servant."
> 
> Your constant drumbeat calling for lackey-this and lackey-that is clearly a racist code-phrase, a thinly-veiled insult to John McCain and his military record and a reprehensible ethnic slur against his Franco-Irish-Scottish heritage.
> 
> (Though it's hard to say what he is, really-- those Frenchie Scotsman all look the same to me.)


It is interesting that W.W. Skeats in his monumental _Etymological Dictionary of the English Language_ traces the oprigins from the French back to Spanish, noting that beyond that it is of uncertain origin. However, Skeats' finding certainly opens up another previously untapped reservoir of racism in this thread. Thank you for putting us on the trail!

Buzz


----------



## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

Quay said:


> This all really does seem to be making much out of not so much. Anyone want to speak more about what the folks at _The Nation_ had to say?
> 
> Cordially,
> A.Q.


I think that is a great idea. The Nation listed 10 points. Oddly, issues 5, 8, and 10 are ones where McCain has taken stands against his own party in favor of positions endorsed by The Nation.

I wish the good folks at The Nation would honestly ask themselves how many of those 10 positions are actually supported by a majority of registered Democrats? I imagine that Union members would heartily endorse the second point, but might be luke warm to the rest, or perhaps even hostile to a couple of items. I come from a mixed family, and most of my black relations are heartily in favor of No Child Left Behind. They don't really give a damn about teacher's unions, they just want safe, effective, and accountable education for their children. And, what about that last point? Do Unions really want political contributions to be limited to individuals? I personally like the idea, but then I don't give money to the swine who run for office.


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

agnash said:


> I think that is a great idea. The Nation listed 10 points. Oddly, issues 5, 8, and 10 are ones where McCain has taken stands against his own party in favor of positions endorsed by The Nation.
> 
> I wish the good folks at The Nation would honestly ask themselves how many of those 10 positions are actually supported by a majority of registered Democrats? I imagine that Union members would heartily endorse the second point, but might be luke warm to the rest, or perhaps even hostile to a couple of items. I come from a mixed family, and most of my black relations are heartily in favor of No Child Left Behind. They don't really give a damn about teacher's unions, they just want safe, effective, and accountable education for their children. And, what about that last point? Do Unions really want political contributions to be limited to individuals? I personally like the idea, but then I don't give money to *the swine who run for office*.


Oh my, that comment may earn you a cyber "beatdown" from some folks around here. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> I would suggest that calling an adult black male "boy" is entirely inappropriate.


I come from a racially mixed family, and the word "boy" is part of a much larger conversation that has been going on for years in my family. Older members remember segregation, Jim Crow, and slurs. For younger members, these things are history, and are sometimes completely unknown. Most of you have probably heard of the Jena 6 case, and a whole lot of people were justifiably upset about the use of a noose. I live fairly close to the scene, and I believe that people were even more upset when they realized that the children in question, black and white, knew that the noose was a threat, but none of them had any idea of any racial conotation. We do not live in a post-racial world, but many of the younger people in this country, born in the late 60s to the present, have little or no idea of the specifics of race baiting. On the one hand, that is wonderful that they have grown up in a world were such things have been left behind. On the other hand, it does can cause profound difficulties when those of us who do remember the other meanings of words hear them spoken (or written) by people who do not share the same frame of reference.


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

jackmccullough said:


> I would suggest that calling an adult black male "boy" is entirely inappropriate.


That never even occurred to me. I think too much political correctness inhibits spontaneity. That's just my opinion.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

TBOWES said:


> That never even occurred to me. I think too much political correctness inhibits spontaneity. That's just my opinion.


This is curious to me. I am an average northeastern white guy, vintage 1950. I have somehow always "known" that it was insulting to call an adult African-American male, "Boy." Maybe the rest of the world really has moved on and it is no longer considered belittling or insulting and I am one of the few who harbor this relic inhibition.

Buzz


----------



## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

M6Classic said:


> This is curious to me. I am an average northeastern white guy, vintage 1950. I have somehow always "known" that it was insulting to call an adult African-American male, "Boy." Maybe the rest of the world really has moved on and it is no longer considered belittling or insulting and I am one of the few who harbor this relic inhibition.
> 
> Buzz


Of course, you still conveniently overlook the fact that calling a man "Boy" to his face and referring to someone in the third person as, in this case, "Barry boy," are two different things entirely.

If Obama were on a baseball team, and when he hit a home run his teammates said something like "Attaboy!", would that be racist? Or even, "Way to go, Barry boy!" Seriously, now.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

wnh said:


> Of course, you still conveniently overlook the fact that calling a man "Boy" to his face and referring to someone in the third person as, in this case, "Barry boy," are two different things entirely.
> 
> If Obama were on a baseball team, and when he hit a home run his teammates said something like "Attaboy!", would that be racist? Or even, "Way to go, Barry boy!" Seriously, now.


I beg your pardon, but I haven't overlooked anything, thank you very much. I was simply ruminating upon the idea that something I was raised to consider an insult might no longer be considered an insult, either by the people who sling it or the recipients.

Buzz


----------



## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

M6Classic said:


> I beg your pardon, but I haven't overlooked anything, thank you very much. I was simply ruminating upon the idea that something I was raised to consider an insult might no longer be considered an insult, either by the people who sling it or the recipients.
> 
> Buzz


You seemed to still be holding onto the idea that the OP was calling Obama "Boy." Perhaps I misunderstood your position, though. If so, my mistake.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

wnh said:


> You seemed to still be holding onto the idea that the OP was calling Obama "Boy." Perhaps I misunderstood your position, though. If so, my mistake.


I do have a position on this matter, but you will be the first to know if it ever changes. I promise.

Buzz


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

M6Classic said:


> There is a period between the ages of four and sixteen when you actually get some sleep. Then they start to drive and you never sleep again for the rest of your life!
> 
> Actually, teenagers are kinda fun, you haver a lot of fun ahead of you. ic12337:
> 
> Buzz


I can't wait for that period when I can get sleep and when he hits the driving stage, he will be getting his rear end kicked or grounded for every hour he deprives me of sleep.

I actually look forward to his teenage years when we can do more "guy" things. :icon_smile:


----------



## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Some of you AAAC geriatrics (since a it might be considered racial to call you "AAAC boys") need to stop this silly bit about "Barry boy" indicating racial insensitivity. :icon_smile_big:

I chose to call him "Barry boy" because I have disdain for what he stands for and the fact that some clowns in an attempt to westernize his Kenyan name call him Barry.

No one here feeds me or any other member here where your view/perspective has to be forced down other people's throat and since the site has more than enough threads to go around, if you don't like something or don't understand something, you can either ask why the OP or responding poster is taking that stance or better still, just move on to other threads.

The issue seems to be that we have too many "knowitalls" here who feel their views have to be the final say in any discussion and if/when not checked run their mouths/keyboards annoyingly.
_
Now returning back to the original discussion..............._


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

Asterix said:


> Some of you AAAC geriatrics (since a it might be considered racial to call you "AAAC boys") need to stop this silly bit about "Barry boy" indicating racial insensitivity. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> I chose to call him "Barry boy" because I have disdain for what he stands for and the fact that some clowns in an attempt to westernize his Kenyan name call him Barry.
> 
> ...


Amen brother. Hope that is not racist.


----------



## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

M6Classic said:


> I do have a position on this matter, but you will be the first to know if it ever changes. I promise.
> 
> Buzz


I expected as much, but it's good of you to state the fact.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

wnh said:


> I expected as much, but it's good of you to state the fact.


Okay, WNH, let me be absolutely clear for a change. I think you are wrong on the issue under discussion. I think your challenging me over and over on this matter is childish and non-productive. I really am sorry that you find my intransigence so frustrating, but rest assured that someone such as you who appears to be incapable of original thought is very unlikely to effect my thinking whatsoever.

Buzz


----------



## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

M6Classic said:


> Okay, WNH, let me be absolutely clear for a change. I think you are wrong on the issue under discussion. I think your challenging me over and over on this matter is childish and non-productive. I really am sorry that you find my intransigence so frustrating, but rest assured that someone such as you who appears to be incapable of original thought is very unlikely to effect my thinking whatsoever.
> 
> Buzz


For what reason(s) do you think I'm wrong? I'll ask again: If Obama were on a baseball team and his teammates congratulated him with "Attaboy!" or "Way to go, Barry boy!" would that be racist? In those cases, are they not referring to him as "boy" in the same way that Asterix was in the first post in this thread? The only difference I see--and please correct me if I'm missing something--is that Asterix apparently is not a fan of Obama's while his hypothetical teammates are. Does that mean that one usage is racist while the other isn't?

To throw another example out there, suppose a white family adopts a black son. Introducing his son to another, the father says, "This is my boy, James." Is the father racist because he used the term "boy" in reference to his black son? That's the conclusion I'm gathering from your posts, so if that is incorrect please show me where I'm misunderstanding your position.

And if you don't mind, please explain how it is that I "appear to be incapable of original thought." Is it because I don't agree with you?


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

wnh said:


> For what reason(s) do you think I'm wrong? I'll ask again: If Obama were on a baseball team and his teammates congratulated him with "Attaboy!" or "Way to go, Barry boy!" would that be racist? In those cases, are they not referring to him as "boy" in the same way that Asterix was in the first post in this thread? The only difference I see--and please correct me if I'm missing something--is that Asterix apparently is not a fan of Obama's while his hypothetical teammates are. Does that mean that one usage is racist while the other isn't?
> 
> To throw another example out there, suppose a white family adopts a black son. Introducing his son to another, the father says, "This is my boy, James." Is the father racist because he used the term "boy" in reference to his black son? That's the conclusion I'm gathering from your posts, so if that is incorrect please show me where I'm misunderstanding your position.
> 
> And if you don't mind, please explain how it is that I "appear to be incapable of original thought." Is it because I don't agree with you?


Let me try it this way, WNH. I don't care what you think and I am not interested in engaging you in a discussion. I am happy to exchange ideas with more thoughtful and wiser people whose opinions and ideas are different from mine.

Buzz


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

M6Classic said:


> Let me try it this way, WNH. I don't care what you think and I am not interested in engaging you in a discussion. I am happy to exchange ideas with more thoughtful and wiser people whose opinions and ideas are different from mine.
> 
> Buzz


Thoughtful and wiser as determined by you? Oh please.


----------



## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

M6Classic said:


> Let me try it this way, WNH. I don't care what you think and I am not interested in engaging you in a discussion. I am happy to exchange ideas with more thoughtful and wiser people whose opinions and ideas are different from mine.
> 
> Buzz


Buzz,
Given your absurd and arrogant behavior on the recent thread dealing with "Legal Movies" one cannot help but find your impatience in this case downright hilarious. For those unfamiliar with the thread, I invite you to take a gander. It speaks volumes about Buzz.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

Mike Petrik said:


> Buzz,
> Given your absurd and arrogant behavior on the recent thread dealing with "Legal Movies" one cannot help but find your impatience in this case downright hilarious. For those unfamiliar with the thread, I invite you to take a gander. It speaks volumes about Buzz.


I speak volumes for myself and, yes, arrogance and pretentiousness are major themes in my behavior. I join Mike Petrik in inviting you to review the thread!

Buzz


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

M6Classic said:


> I speak volumes for myself and, yes, arrogance and pretentiousness are major themes in my behavior. I join Mike Petrik in inviting you to review the thread!
> 
> Buzz


No thanks. I run into arrogance and pretentiousness enough by accident. Hardy something to brag about. Must be tough to mantain friendships. Myself, I like to use warmness and honesty. Go figure.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

TBOWES said:


> No thanks. I run into arrogance and pretentiousness enough by accident. Hardy something to brag about. Must be tough to mantain friendships. Myself, I like to use warmness and honesty. Go figure.


Where-in is it written that one cannot be arreogant, pretentious, warm and honest all at once? Works for me! :icon_smile_big:

Buzz


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

M6Classic said:


> Where-in is it written that one cannot be arreogant, pretentious, warm and honest all at once? Works for me! :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Buzz


They are mutually exclusive my friend. Get a dictionary. Oh yea, and get a spell checker.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

TBOWES said:


> They are mutually exclusive my friend. Get a dictionary. Oh yea, and get a spell checker.


I just read all four definitions in a Merriam-Webster _New International Dictionary Second Edition_ (1947) and...son of a gun...they actually are not mutually exclusive

I may make spelling mistakes, but I would never use a spell-checker, good Lord, what next? Voice mail? What's going on here? Are you in a conspiracy with Mike Petrik to try and lure me into the Twenty-first Century?

Buzz


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

M6Classic said:


> I just read all four definitions in a Merriam-Webster _New International Dictionary Second Edition_ (1947) and...son of a gun...they actually are not mutually exclusive
> 
> I may make spelling mistakes, but I would never use a spell-checker, good Lord, what next? Voice mail? What's going on here? Are you in a conspiracy with Mike Petrik to try and lure me into the Twenty-first Century?
> 
> Buzz


You are to too unintelligent to have a discussion with. So if you are pretentious, then you are honest? Not quite. Did you graduate high school? "Rant On" my friend I will no longer pay any attention to you.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

TBOWES said:


> *You are to too unintelligent* to have a discussion with. So if you are pretentious, then you are honest? Not quite. Did you graduate high school? "Rant On" my friend I will no longer pay any attention to you.


You should really proof read your work before you hit the "submit" button. Nonetheless, I am enormously grateful for your disappearance.

Buzz


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

M6Classic said:


> You should really proof read your work before you hit the "submit" button. Nonetheless, I am enormously grateful for your disappearance.
> 
> Buzz


The feeling is mutual.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

TBOWES said:


> The feeling is mutual.


Didn't you just promise to ignore me?

Buzz


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

M6Classic said:


> Didn't you just promise to ignore me?
> 
> Buzz


You use many of words but you say nothing.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

TBOWES said:


> You use many of words but you say nothing.


Didn't you just promise to ignore me?

Buzz


----------



## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

"Are too."

"Am not."

"Are too."

"Am not."


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

Poor Buzzy doesn't realize that when you ignore someone, that you simply don't acknowledge their existence or pay attention to what they say. I doesn't mean you stop speaking. Some of us are rather thick in the brain. Oh well it takes all kinds.


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

wnh said:


> "Are too."
> 
> "Am not."
> 
> ...


Finally, an intelligent and well written observation!

buzz


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

wnh said:


> "Are too."
> 
> "Am not."
> 
> ...


Yes, right down to Buzzy's level


----------



## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

TBOWES said:


> Poor Buzzy doesn't realize that when you ignore someone, that you simply don't acknowledge their existence or pay attention to what they say. I doesn't mean you stop speaking. Some of us are rather thick in the brain. Oh well it takes all kinds.


Didn't you just promise to ignore me?

Buzz
​


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

nolan50410 said:


> As a slightly conservative independent I have enjoyed Obama's move to the center. The funny part of this is that the dems will help put McCain in the White House with crap like this. They nominated a candidate whose whole message is indeed "change". When he starts to act on his promise, a promise that got him nominated, they throw a fit?? My dad is a staunch republican, but we are both voting for Obama. He said months ago that "the dems will find a way to screw this up." Hope we see less of this.


I want to vote for Obama but some of his ideas seem to idealistic and almost socialistic. When he moves a little to the center I am actually more inclined to vote for him.


----------



## TBOWES (Nov 29, 2007)

M6Classic said:


> Didn't you just promise to ignore me?
> 
> Buzz
> ​


Might change my mind. Who knows? Certainly my prerogative.


----------

