# What makes expensive ties expensive?



## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

I understand silk is an expensive fabric, but was hoping to be educated on the difference between, say, a $40 tie and a $100 tie. Polo labeled RL ties can be $135, Brooks ties can be $80 - $100. Are these better than Geoffrey Beane or Clubroom ties from Macy's which would be more like $30-$40 on sale? If so, how are they better?

On a side note, I bought a $5 tie I found at Walmart two weeks ago just because I thought it was hilarious that a men's tie was $5 brand new. Half way through the second wearing it fell apart. I don't even think there was an ounce of real silk in it. I am shocked and appalled that a $5 tie would fall apart so quickly!


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

silk comes in various grades; the whatchamacallit stuff that goes inside ties comes in various grades, from fat and stiff to thin and flexible; construction can be machine sewn or hand sewn, and the difference can be easily seen in the tie edges, which can be elegantly rolled or hard pressed. Tie shapes vary, from bottle shaped to straight lines. However, I've seen many nice ties for cheap, and costly ones where you're paying for the label.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Ties are funny.

Regardless of price, if it looks cheap and feels cheap it is cheap.

If it don't, it's not!!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Why, sir, it's the price! The price makes it expensive!

A few dollars of labor, plus a few more for cloth does not a $160 tie maketh. Granted, nice anything in limited supply is going to get bid upward more today than thirty years ago, but ties have traditionally carried much bigger margins than many other items. I have little doubt that fine silk in small runs is going to have greater demand than it might in the past, but even assuming a wholesale cost per tie of say, $30, and a generous labor cost of $20, you're going to be running a gross margin of three, or perhaps even four. And I have little doubt that those in the trade will look at these numbers and snicker, and think, "Oh, we can do better than that."


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

Marketing my friend. Marketing. Yes a $250 Rubinacci is a nicer tie than a $15 Tie Bar tie, but not almost 20X better.

In the end, luxury good are priced at what the market will bear as their price has no rational correlation with material, costs to manufacture or other meat and potatoes elements of making stuff. 

Pure capitalism in the end...


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

1) silk quality
2) construction quality
3) manufacturing location
4) brand

There is no question that a quality tie blows a cheap tie out of the water. With any luxury item, you also reach a point of diminishing returns. But you can always find high quality ties used or on sale for what you would pay for a cheap tie new (or for much less).


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

^I quite agree with Alan's remarks. It's true of many things that that top 5 or 10% of quality can add way more to the price than 5 or 10% (if that makes sense), but once you've learned to see these things (and it takes time to educate the eye) there's no going back.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

Hmmm. So when people say things like "don't buy BB 346 line", why would they say that with respect to ties? If $130 ties are not worth $130, are Brooks 346 ties just fine? I'm asking because I know they will be very cheap on Black Friday at the BB outlet this year.

I need a lot of ties in the next two months and I'm just wondering how I should play it. I happen to know that most silk ties at Macys will be $20, from brands such as Perry ellis, Alfani, Club Room, Nautica, etc. I know most raise their nose at the thought of an Alfani shirt for example, but for ties, is there too much of a difference that one should not buy $20 silk neckties on Black Friday from these brands?


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Alan nailed it. I have a hand-made Italian (can't recall brand off-hand--it's more appropos for the movie Wall Street than Ivy League) that is thick, luxurious and ties a fabulous fat knot. I'm certain it cost well over $100 new, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was in the $200 league. It gains, without fail, multiple compliments every time I wear it. That doesn't happen with cheap ties. Is it worth $200? Not a chance. No tie is. But I'm glad it's in my closet. Expensive ties are like cars, only more drastic: The second they roll off the showroom floor, they're worth a quarter of what they cost new, which is why it makes zero sense to shell out for a new tie. There are tons available secondhand, and, unlike cars or shoes, they don't, for the most part, wear out.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Why do you need "a lot of ties" in such a short time span? My advice would be to pick up just a few for cheap, then start buying quality ties. If you're just starting to buy ties you really don't know what you're doing (no offense), and you'll blow a lot of money on junk ties you won't want in 6-12 months.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a 346 tie new. Contact member SteveSmith and see if he has any mainline Brooks Brothers ties he'll sell you (he sources from the BB outlet in NC, the real one). Check our own Trad Thrift Store exchange. Send me your address and I'll send you a tie or two.

Read through this thread to help develop your taste in ties. The switch will turn on.



WBuffettJr said:


> Hmmm. So when people say things like "don't buy BB 346 line", why would they say that with respect to ties? If $130 ties are not worth $130, are Brooks 346 ties just fine? I'm asking because I know they will be very cheap on Black Friday at the BB outlet this year.
> 
> I need a lot of ties in the next two months and I'm just wondering how I should play it. I happen to know that most silk ties at Macys will be $20, from brands such as Perry ellis, Alfani, Club Room, Nautica, etc. I know most raise their nose at the thought of an Alfani shirt for example, but for ties, is there too much of a difference that one should not buy $20 silk neckties on Black Friday from these brands?


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

WBuffettJr said:


> Hmmm. So when people say things like "don't buy BB 346 line", why would they say that with respect to ties? If $130 ties are not worth $130, are Brooks 346 ties just fine? I'm asking because I know they will be very cheap on Black Friday at the BB outlet this year.
> 
> I need a lot of ties in the next two months and I'm just wondering how I should play it. I happen to know that most silk ties at Macys will be $20, from brands such as Perry ellis, Alfani, Club Room, Nautica, etc. I know most raise their nose at the thought of an Alfani shirt for example, but for ties, is there too much of a difference that one should not buy $20 silk neckties on Black Friday from these brands?


IMHO, price often has a greater relationship to quality in tailored clothing and shoes than ties. (Though its entirely possible to pay ridiculous markups for both for many of the same market reasons as ties.) And again, IMHO, it's better to have a cheap tie with good tailoring and shoes, than the other way round. I have never thrifted, but if I had to add ties quickly (Rather than having a lifetime supply representing perhaps $7,000 in frivolity.) I think that's what I would do. Good consignment shops often have beautiful, high-qaulity ties for a song.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Upscale ties are, without question, the easiest clothing item to thrift for pennies on the dollar. That's because there are so many ties out there ("Hmm, what should we get Bob for Christmas, he has everything? I know: a tie!") and such varying tastes. The OP should get in touch with Patrick--he's running a tie grab bag sale.


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## oldominion (Dec 8, 2009)

I just bought a fancy tie from Ben Silver in Charleston through their sale page. It was $150 (or something...anyhow, way more than I'd ever pay for a tie) marked down to 48. I would happily pay another 50 bucks for another Ben Silver tie, and I may yet...Luxurious fabric, British-made, super-cool looking and ties a perfect knot. Go check em out if you want a great tie but don't want to pay full freight. In fact, I may head over there now myself!


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

The Rambler said:


> ^I quite agree with Alan's remarks. It's true of many things that that top 5 or 10% of quality can add way more to the price than 5 or 10% (if that makes sense), but once you've learned to see these things (and it takes time to educate the eye) there's no going back.


I agree. But once you've learned to see these things, you're better equipped to spot a bargain!

Wisco is right too.


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

oldominion said:


> I just bought a fancy tie from Ben Silver...


+1 for the BEnSilver sale page. Seaward and Stearn (who supply _some_ ties to BS) are wonderful.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

AlanC said:


> Why do you need "a lot of ties" in such a short time span? My advice would be to pick up just a few for cheap, then start buying quality ties. If you're just starting to buy ties you really don't know what you're doing (no offense), and you'll blow a lot of money on junk ties you won't want in 6-12 months.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't buy a 346 tie new. Contact member SteveSmith and see if he has any mainline Brooks Brothers ties he'll sell you (he sources from the BB outlet in NC, the real one). Check our own Trad Thrift Store exchange. Send me your address and I'll send you a tie or two.
> 
> Read through this thread to help develop your taste in ties. The switch will turn on.


Alan, I can't thank you enough for your helpful post, and I took no offense. Thanks. I need ties because I'm going to be wearing suits regularly for my job and I do not own any ties. I'll drop a note to Stevesmith as I love all things Brooks so if I could get mainline ties cheaply I would love that.

What is the Trad Thift Store exchange? How is that different from the Buy and Sell forum? Can it only feature things picked up from a thrift store? I had an idea about heading to the Goodwill in the exceedingly wealthy part of town thinking that would be the place to find high end ties...is that a goofy idea or is it reasonable? My plan thus far was to print out looks from Brooks Brothers pictures where I like the outfit and try to copy the tie as best as possible.

If you're serious about sending me a tie or two, I would love that and would be happy to pay postage.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

There is, in my experience, no correlation between the socio-economic aspect of a neighborhood and wares offered in a Goodwill therein.



WBuffettJr said:


> Alan, I can't thank you enough for your helpful post, and I took no offense. Thanks. I need ties because I'm going to be wearing suits regularly for my job and I do not own any ties. I'll drop a note to Stevesmith as I love all things Brooks so if I could get mainline ties cheaply I would love that.
> 
> What is the Trad Thift Store exchange? How is that different from the Buy and Sell forum? Can it only feature things picked up from a thrift store? I had an idea about heading to the Goodwill in the exceedingly wealthy part of town thinking that would be the place to find high end ties...is that a goofy idea or is it reasonable? My plan thus far was to print out looks from Brooks Brothers pictures where I like the outfit and try to copy the tie as best as possible.
> 
> If you're serious about sending me a tie or two, I would love that and would be happy to pay postage.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

32rollandrock said:


> There is, in my experience, no correlation between the socio-economic aspect of a neighborhood and wares offered in a Goodwill therein.


To expand on this, Goodwill and Salvation Army and other such chains often have a central distribution point where everything is sent, sorted, priced, and then sent back out to the individual stores.

Stock quality is more likely to be associated with neighborhood wealth when you're dealing with small, independent stores.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Thrift is good. You should definitely try it. Were I you I would go here. Don't pay too much, though, and don't get ties that are too wide.

Trad Thrift Exchange is a thread where items, usually thrifted, are sold.

I am serious about sending you ties. PM me your address.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> To expand on this, Goodwill and Salvation Army and other such chains often have a central distribution point where everything is sent, sorted, priced, and then sent back out to the individual stores.
> 
> Stock quality is more likely to be associated with neighborhood wealth when you're dealing with small, independent stores.


Wow, thank you for the suggestion Orgetorix, that's really helpful. I had never heard of that store. By the way, I viewed your blog earlier today and enjoyed it. I think you look great and the deals you got are fantastic.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

I can't believe that...that store you linked me to is right down the street from me and is - I'm guessing - right next to the Neiman Marcus Last Call I've been to probably 100 times. How on earth!?


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

Yes, this is literally next store to the store I go to several times per month. This may have changed my life.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

IMO, there is a great deal of difference between a cheap $30 tie and a $120 tie. It's pretty significant. The colors, the pattern, the material, the workmanship, etc.

I don't have to wear ties for work, and previously thought them too formal for most other occasions or events I attend. Within the past year, I've grown fond of wearing ties because they are a great way to add color and pizzaz to my ensemble.

So I've bought about 30 ties within the last year. Most of the ones I've bought are Brooks Brothers and Polo. I also have three Hermes, one Charvet and one Drakes of London. The most I've paid for a single tie? $34 for the Charvet at a Saks Fifth Avenue Outlet. I would guess that the average price of my ties is $3. As you probably guessed, I've thrifted pretty much all of them.

You can thrift ties for under $5 a piece. I've seen all kinds of different high-end brands of ties at the Neiman and Saks outlet for under $60, and these are ties with regular retail prices of $120-$180. So I would say that thrifting and outlets is the way to go with ties. eBay is a good option too. Just remember to choose ties of timeless designs and widths.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> Stock quality is more likely to be associated with neighborhood wealth when you're dealing with small, independent stores.


My experience also. My wife enjoys consignment shops. It's darn near a sport for her. We once visited one in a nearby horsey/old money community consignment shop. (Yes, NJ is a HQ location for the United States Equestrian Federation.) It was chock-full of furs, designer gowns (As in one-off, made for Madam.) and gents bespoke.


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## WBuffettJr (Dec 3, 2008)

triklops55 said:


> IMO, there is a great deal of difference between a cheap $30 tie and a $120 tie. It's pretty significant. The colors, the pattern, the material, the workmanship, etc.
> 
> I don't have to wear ties for work, and previously thought them too formal for most other occasions or events I attend. Within the past year, I've grown fond of wearing ties because they are a great way to add color and pizzaz to my ensemble.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Triklops. I've been looking at outlet stores a lot include Saks off 5th and Neiman Last call, but ties I've found are usually $30-50 even on sale. Some ties are as low as $23 but those are the Neiman house brand. Are you finding $3-5 ties at independent thrift stores mostly? That seems like a very low price...i was expecting at least $10-$15 per tie. How'd you score three Hermes?


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

WBuffettJr said:


> Thanks, Triklops. I've been looking at outlet stores a lot include Saks off 5th and Neiman Last call, but ties I've found are usually $30-50 even on sale. Some ties are as low as $23 but those are the Neiman house brand. Are you finding $3-5 ties at independent thrift stores mostly? That seems like a very low price...i was expecting at least $10-$15 per tie. How'd you score three Hermes?


I shop at all different kinds of thrifts, independents, Savers, Salvation Army, Goodwill. Most sell their ties for $1.99-$2.99. Every thrift I've been to has tons of ties. I think ties are probably the worst selling things that thrifts have since most men don't wear them at all anymore.

I found two Hermes in one shot at a local Goodwill for $1.99 each, and the third at a different Goodwill a couple of weeks ago. Hermes ties aren't very "trad" but I like them. Polo and BB ties are easy to come by around here and pretty timeless, so I pick those up all of the time. As with anything at thrifts, it's all about going frequently to as many as you can and see what you find.

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, so thrifts yield good stuff pretty often. I don't know how Austin is for thrifting, but if you go often enough, you'll find good stuff anywhere.

The prices you give for outlets are pretty standard. I think outlet prices are a good deal, but if its more than what you want to pay, thrifting is the way to go, or try eBay.

I would stay away from the house brands because I'm uncertain of their quality or their origin.


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## dparm (Nov 18, 2008)

I'll add this: I just bought my first "expensive" tie from Paul Stuart. It's a black grenadine and it certainly looks and feels expensive. The weave is very detailed and the tie is rolled nicely. It will not be mistaken for a cheap $20 tie, though I wonder how many people even notice that sort of thing........


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Just a select few, including, most importantly, you. Then, a larger cohort, who will think you look very well, but couldn't say why. Then, a much larger number, who will wonder why you're so dressed up. :biggrin2:


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

It seems like for thrifting/ebaying purposes, it would help to know which companies make high quality ties.

Would that work as a quick and dirty solution?

:icon_study:


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## caravan70 (Mar 18, 2010)

Generally, you can feel the quality of a tie just by holding it in your hands and assessing the weight/heft/hand. I'm not sure brands have a lot to do with anything in this instance. Some of the highest-quality ties I've owned have been "no-name" ties from old men's shops or things from not-particularly-well-regarded designers like Ike Behar. At the same time, a seven-fold tie from a decent Italian company will usually be quite nice, and I've never failed to be wowed by ties from Turnbull & Asser. I think it's all about durability, ability to whip into quick shape when you're ready to go in the morning, and appearance once it's around your neck.


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