# Electrifying Potential Gilligan Moment



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I am Forsbergacct2000 and I have a fuse to change tonight. (Yes, my house has an old fashioned fuse box and no circuit breaker.)

I realize that the designators of the Inane may have a field day here, but I have no logical defense that would prevent them from doing so.

Last night, a jerry-rigged lamp in my basement that I should have unplugged years ago finally exacted its final revenge on my fuse box. (It WAS a convenient way to light a dark part of the basement!)

Half of my house is now electricity-free. Last night, I attempted to pull the fuse, but could not. (This morning a couple helpful coworkers told me that it needs to be unscrewed, not pulled.) Fortunately, I had a 30 extension cord that I had recently purchased to play an outdoor wedding reception, so I was able to plug the refrigerator into an outlet that is not electricity-free.

Tonight, I will walk down to the grocery store to buy the replacement fuse and if God loves me, I will replace said fuse and restore my house to modern day convenience levels. I'm wearing a black polo shirt and will keep it on for the operation so that I will be dressed appropriately for the situation if I have to be picked up off the basement floor and shipped off to the morgue. (I believe I have obtained enough electrical knowledge to avoid this fate, however.)

If this is my last post, I will remember many of you fondly. I'm one of those people who went into home ownership without the proper training; hopefully this won't prove to be electrifying!!


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

In the wise words of someone I just made up, "Can I have your stuff if you die?":devil:


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Having grown up with a grandfather who was an Industrial Electrician at the steel mill (USX in Fairless Hills, PA) and watching him ALWAYS work on live 110, I find it simply fascinating. The man, to this day (83 years young), refuses to throw a circuit breaker when doing household electric work (switch/outlet replacements). I've watched him get hit countless times by using leaky (tear/hole in insulation) pliers, or simply slipping with a screwdriver. His reasoning: he took 440 volt hits at the mill that threw him, literally, 20 feet across the room. And, its amps, not voltage, that kill. 

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor....and considering upgrading your box; it isn't terribly expensive (just a couple of MTM jackets worth). 

That said, can I call dibs on your PS collection?


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## mdh (May 10, 2011)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> Having grown up with a grandfather who was an Industrial Electrician at the steel mill (USX in Fairless Hills, PA) and watching him ALWAYS work on live 110, I find it simply fascinating. The man, to this day (83 years young), refuses to throw a circuit breaker when doing household electric work (switch/outlet replacements). I've watched him get hit countless times by using leaky (tear/hole in insulation) pliers, or simply slipping with a screwdriver. His reasoning: he took 440 volt hits at the mill that threw him, literally, 20 feet across the room. And, its amps, not voltage, that kill.


I'd think the more rational response to such an incident would be to ALWAYS throw the breaker first. I took a shock from a dodgy swamp cooler when I was very young, and it's an experience I do not wish to repeat!

Kudos on the thread title, Chuck, and best of luck!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

ZachGranstrom said:


> In the wise words of someone I just made up, "Can I have your stuff if you die?":devil:


They may need the black polo shirt to bury me.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

mdh said:


> I'd think the more rational response to such an incident would be to ALWAYS throw the breaker first. I took a shock from a dodgy swamp cooler when I was very young, and it's an experience I do not wish to repeat!
> 
> Kudos on the thread title, Chuck, and best of luck!


Alas, my house was built in 1960 and there is no circuit breaker.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor....and considering upgrading your box; it isn't terribly expensive (just a couple of MTM jackets worth).
> 
> That said, can I call dibs on your PS collection?


I live with off the rack, tailored. You will probably need to negotiate with Zach about the pocket squares; he asked for them first. If my cemetery plot is not well-guarded, the black polo may be available with a bit of labor.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

Kill the power then replace the fuse box with a breaker box. It is not difficult to do. If you feel ambitious try running new and heavier wiring. That is not difficult either but time consuming.
When you think about it, there is no reason to play around with antiquated system which is neither reliable nor safe by today's standards. As an added bonus you will no longer need to know that you have to twist a fuse to remove it. And of course you may wear your black polo.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

When finances permit, I'll do that. However, I'll pay a licensed electrician to do that. I've never been accused of having an innate mechanical inclination and I've seen what has happened to others who overstretch their abililties. 

Congratulations to you if you are able to do that. You'll save a lot of time and money.

(I'm at the level where I actually learned something when I saw what happened to Bullwinkle once when he tried to put a penny in the fuse box.) 

The phrase "Snap, Crackle, Pop" can appear in places besides Rice Krispies commercials, you know!


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

There is a large lever on the side of the fusebox. Pull it down to kill the power to the entire house. Unscrew the old fuse and screw in the new one. Push the lever back up and restore power. Easy... I did it many times at my old house.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

dks202 said:


> There is a large lever on the side of the fusebox. Pull it down to kill the power to the entire house. Unscrew the old fuse and screw in the new one. Push the lever back up and restore power. Easy... I did it many times at my old house.


Then reset clocks, make sure the TV's are switched off, and have a couple of spare lightbulbs handy; one or two will always pop.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Assuming this thread is on the up-and-up and that I'm not about to waste my time...

Okay stand back everybody. I'm here.

Background: to get juice into your abode you don't need no damn fuses or circuit breakers, you need just a big fat wire from the pole to the cellar. However, the power company forces you to cut it once it's inside and before you can put it back together and run it to your toaster you have to put a fuse box at the cut. *This has zero to do with the delivery of electricity.* It's just a safety device.

If the line wasn't purposely severed at the fuse point and if you tried to plug in thirty toasters you would suck so much power through the line that you could read Andy's encyclopedia by the glow coming through it. So a fuse blows or a breaker trips and both do the same, they sever the line, again. You put it back together by replacing the fuse or reseting the breaker, after you've unplugged the toasters and put Andy's book back in the attic and promise yourself to never ever again remove it.

You don't need to throw (turn off) the main breaker to change a fuse. Just be sure to only handle the fuse by the tippy-top when inserting. If you throw the main breaker everything in the house goes off and you have to reset clocks and, in my case, the timed entry lock into the tunnel.

Good luck with this. O if only I believed you.

(If this is the first timer a fuse has blown in that bungalow, you're very lucky. Foget about upgrading to breakers, just keep a box of proper size fuses on hand.)


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Thank you for the advice! (Do you have fuses in the Tiny House or breakers?)

Believe it or not, yes, I am this unmechanical, and this is the first time in eleven years of living in this house that I have blown a fuse. When I get home tonight, I'll take the fuse with me to the store to pick up the correct fuse. (I really DID learn from watching Bullwinkle try to put a penny in there. I've also heard that our modern pennies won't work anyway.)

I'm also really wearing the black polo shirt.

If things don't work out and you stay friendly with Zach, you might be able to score a few ties and/or pocket squares. From your postings in other forums, unfortunately, my shirts, pants and tailored clothing will be too big for you. (You are healthier for that!)


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

I wouldn't be caught dead in a black polo. Apparently you plan to be.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

What does the blown fuse look like? Is it like this? ==>








In that case, it's just like changing a light bulb. Unscrew it and put in another of the same rating (15 amp, 20 amp, 30 amp, etc.). If you have motors on the circuit (e.g., an A/C or fridge), ask for a slow-blow fuse -they allow for the brief over-current that may happen when a motor kicks on.

If it looks like this ==>








... then you should cut the electricity and use a fuse removal tool to pull the old fuse out and insert the new one. Ask at the hardware store.

Now that we're in the 21st century, consider getting a proper circuit breaker panel of at least 150 amps. This should be done by a pro, as the electric meter must also be swapped out to match the capacity of the breaker panel, and only a licensed electrician can break the electric co.'s seal on the meter. It'll probably run you $800 - $1,200, depending on the size of the box and local rates.

Absolutely don't use a penny, unless your fire insurance is paid up - especially if you don't know what exactly blew the fuse. If you have a short, the penny will allow the circuit to heat up and burn your house down!


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Joisy, he don't got that second one, this ain't 1930. He's got the ceramic screw-in one. And remember, this apparently is the foist time ever that a fuse has gone baddda-bing in that bungalow, so let him save the $1200 and just go with a popped fuse every few years.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

There are people who do this for a living. If they burn your house down, you can sue. 

Oh yeah, 120 can stop your heart...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

JerseyJohn said:


> What does the blown fuse look like? Is it like this? ==>
> View attachment 2631
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. Only a girly man would install a 150 amp breaker panel. A 'real man' needs at least 200+ amps to run his arc welder and the security lighting for the perimeter of his estate! :crazy:

ROFALOL. I hope that power flux we experienced last evening was not forsbergacct2K changing that fuse(!)?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I actually changed the fuse myself, I replaced the 15 Amp fuse with another 15 Amp fuse after a bit of difficulty in the store. (The clerk gave me a fuse that was too skinny for where it needed to go; I found a fuse that would fit and bought that.) I'm a bit concerned and I'm going to ask someone who knows better - - there are letters (A and D) that come labelled on the 15 amp fuses. Our mechanical guy at work can probably tell me if I have a problem or not. All the electricity appears to be working, but as someone said, if it won't blow when there is a short circuit, I could end up with a fire. (And now that the black polo appears to have a spot in AAAC history, it would be a shame to lose it.)

I'm alive and posting and the black polo is in the wash. I may actually be caught dead in it today, what I will be wearing at the moment is somewhat hard to predict, though.


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I actually changed the fuse myself, I replaced the 15 Amp fuse with another 15 Amp fuse after a bit of difficulty in the store. (The clerk gave me a fuse that was too skinny for where it needed to go; I found a fuse that would fit and bought that.) I'm a bit concerned and I'm going to ask someone who knows better - - there are letters (A and D) that come labelled on the 15 amp fuses. Our mechanical guy at work can probably tell me if I have a problem or not. All the electricity appears to be working, but as someone said, if it won't blow when there is a short circuit, I could end up with a fire. (And now that the black polo appears to have a spot in AAAC history, it would be a shame to lose it.)
> 
> I'm alive and posting and the black polo is in the wash. I may actually be caught dead in it today, what I will be wearing at the moment is somewhat hard to predict, though.


Speaking as someone with a A.S. degree in Electronics Engineering Technology; since I don't have a picture of the fuse in question I'll have to do this from memory. I'm guessing that the "A" is next to the "15?" - in which case it means 15 amperes. The "D" means that this is a Type D fuse rated for 125 volts.

Next time it blows I suggest you replace it with a screw-in circuit breaker as shown here:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0HFTS1KYB2PA92E6DE30

Congratulations on getting it done without getting zapped. Still, I was hoping for a little excitement.:wink2:


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

That is amazing! Here it is, a little larger than lifesize:



Had no idea they'd invented such a thing, and by one of the biggest fuse makers in the business. F'berg, by all means try this. And while it apparently retails for the absurd price of $42, Amazon has it for $6.90. (Buy 4 and you get free ship.) Thank you, Regillus.


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

Anytime.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Alas, my house was built in 1960 and there is no circuit breaker.


Wouldn't your house be due for a rewiring then?

Or at least have the fittings brought upto modern safety standards, if the wiring itself is in a satisfactory condition. Unlikely though given that the wiring itself is probably 50 years old.

Although having said that, my apartment has five non-isolated 230 volt outlets in the bathroom. Something which is completely illegal and against wiring regulations in the UK, not sure about the US though.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Orsini said:


> There are people who do this for a living. *If they burn your house down, you can sue*.


In China it's hard luck, you should have found a better 'electrician'.

I believe in Australia it is unlawful for anyone to call themselves an 'electrician', unless they're actually qualified. And it's illegal for anyone to do their own electrical work as well, unless they're qualified. Similarly with CORGI gas certifications in the UK, one can't touch anything gas unless one is CORGI registered.


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

MikeDT said:


> Wouldn't your house be due for a rewiring then?
> 
> Or at least have the fittings brought upto modern safety standards, if the wiring itself is in a satisfactory condition. Unlikely though given that the wiring itself is probably 50 years old.


No. Rewiring an entire house is a horrendous job involving removing the inside walls so that the old wiring can be replaced. Unless there's some clear reason to believe that the wiring is deficient; just leave it in place. House was built in 1960: That means the house wiring has plastic insulation on it which was intended to last 50+ years anyway. The older wiring had a woven cloth sheath or a sheath made of rubber which rotted over time leaving exposed wiring which created a fire hazard. As long as the existing wiring is providing enough outlets and current to meet the needs of the homeowner - just leave it be. Updating the fittings: Yes switching from 2-prong outlets to 3-prong outlets (grounded if possible) would be a good idea since more things use 3-prong plugs these days. Even on the 2-prong outlets; switching to polarized outlets (i.e. where one prong is wider than the other) would be a good idea. Even so; if the homeowner thinks that the electrical system that he has is sufficient for his needs then there's no need to do anything.:icon_study:


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

MikeDT said:


> I believe in Australia it is unlawful for anyone to call themselves an 'electrician', unless they're actually qualified. And it's illegal for anyone to do their own electrical work as well, unless they're qualified.


Replacing a fuse is not considered "electrical work" any more than replacing a burned-out light bulb is considered electrical work. Replacing a fuse is a simple job - unscrew blown fuse, screw in new fuse. Anybody who can turn a doorknob can do it.

BTW F'berg: You went to the grocery store for fuses? Don't you know where your local hardware store is?


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Regillus said:


> Replacing a fuse is not considered *"electrical work"* any more than replacing a burned-out light bulb is considered electrical work. Replacing a fuse is a simple job - unscrew blown fuse, screw in new fuse. Anybody who can turn a doorknob can do it.


Perhaps it should be. Replacing a fuse maybe a simple job, but I wonder how many people really understand the safety and fire implications of an incorrect fuse rating. Like using a 30A fuse on a 5A lighting circuit. because that's all they had, or worse using aluminium foil because they haven't got a fuse at all(I've actually seen this quite a few times). Even though that circuit is clearly marked as being 5A.

For decades in the UK incorrectly fused appliances was really widespread problem. Simply because every plug one bought came with a 13A fuse, and people would use them on things like radios and TVs. They'd not bother to change the fuse to the correct rating for that appliance. Incorrectly wired plugs was a major hazard as well. This only changed when a change in the law required that appliances come with a pre-wired BS1363 plug and it must be correctly fused.

I still remember my granddad's attempt at wiring up a mains plug on a TV. What he'd actually done, he stripped the cord back to the copper about 6 inchs, so as a result Live, Neutral and Earth where shorted. Needless to say there was a 13A fuse in the plug. It made an almighty bang!!

Within some companies and organisations replacing a fuse is considered electrical work.

BTW how many teachers does it take to change a lightbulb? NONE!, it's the janitor's job as he's the only one trained to carry out this task.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Regillus said:


> No. Rewiring an entire house is a horrendous job involving removing the inside walls so that the old wiring can be replaced. Unless there's some clear reason to believe that the wiring is deficient; just leave it in place. House was built in 1960: That means the house wiring has plastic insulation on it which was intended to last 50+ years anyway. The older wiring had a woven cloth sheath or a sheath made of rubber which rotted over time leaving exposed wiring which created a fire hazard. As long as the existing wiring is providing enough outlets and current to meet the needs of the homeowner - just leave it be.


We moved into a house about ten years ago, which was about 40-60 years old, and all the wiring there was rubber insulated. Place even had some of the very old round-pin type outlets(pre BS1363). Rewiring wasn't as bad as we first thought, didn't have to pull any walls out or anything major like that. Mostly consisted of channeling the walls vertically and pulling-up some floorboards for the new wiring. We left most of the old rubber wiring in situe, but completely disconnected.

A friend of mine's Victorian terrace was so unmodernised when he bought it in 1998, that it still had *live original gas pipes* and *live gas light fittings*, apparently not used since 1973(when the area converted from town gas to natural gas). First priority was to get this lot disconnected from the gas mains and made safe.


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> A friend of mine's Victorian terrace was so unmodernised when he bought it in 1998, that it still had *live original gas pipes* and *live gas light fittings*, apparently not used since 1973(when the area converted from town gas to natural gas). First priority was to get this lot disconnected from the gas mains and made safe.


Of course, if you could get these fitted with modern safety valves and some proper shades, the gas lights would be vastly more economical than electric bulbs, at least in the States: compare gas bills to electric bills. At least, I think that's the case: I'm not entirely certain how efficiently you would use gas lighting a house. And gas lights give off a damn lot of heat, making them somewhat inconvenient in the summer.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

MikeDT said:


> In China it's hard luck, you should have found a better 'electrician'...


Yeah, life's rough, ain't it?

If you want to enjoy all that glamour of far-off places, you are likely to have to tolerate some extra risk.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

I was lucky. Our 1906 house has some vestiges of the old cloth-covered rubber wires on ceramic posts, but none of that is actually connected to anything. Our house had been rewired some time post-WW2 with BX cable (I'm surprised that MikeDT would have a post-war wire and post system - even my parents' 1924 house, which was completely original when they bought it in 1954 with its original 4-fuse box, had BX). My house had an old 60 amp service with six 15 amp fuses. When we remodeled the kitchen in the early 80's, we had a 150 amp breaker box installed. They kept all the old wiring, but redistributed it. After adding stuff for A/C's, table saws, etc., we're up to about 20 circuit breakers now. It's a pleasure not to worry about not running the microwave and the coffee maker at the same time or having to shut off the A/C to run the vacuum cleaner. Forsberg must be a good deal further "off the grid" than we are to have gone 11 years without blowing a fuse with an old fuse system. I congratulate, if not emulate, him!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Regillus said:


> Replacing a fuse is not considered "electrical work" any more than replacing a burned-out light bulb is considered electrical work. Replacing a fuse is a simple job - unscrew blown fuse, screw in new fuse. Anybody who can turn a doorknob can do it.
> 
> BTW F'berg: You went to the grocery store for fuses? Don't you know where your local hardware store is?


I couldn't get to the store until 8:30 PM. Also, the grocery store is only a mile away; any hardware store would have been five miles.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

JerseyJohn said:


> Forsberg must be a good deal further "off the grid" than we are to have gone 11 years without blowing a fuse with an old fuse system. I congratulate, if not emulate, him!


I'm not home much, actually. I do run the air conditioner when I need to, but that's about it. I just keep on what needs to be on because there is no point in paying for wasted electricity. I've also probably been lucky.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

Regarding rewiring, it should be noted that many houses in the 60's were wired with aluminum. This makes it imperative to upgrade wiring if you find you are one of these unfortunate people who bought such a house. Not only is you electric bill going to be higher but the connectors sometimes overheated and caught fire. Another reason to rewire is to save electricity and also to carry heavier loads. Dropping from a 14 gauge wire to a 12 gauge can offer substantial savings and since we are heavier users off electricity the heavier wire can handle the new loads better.

Regarding pennies it could be worse than you think. . Old pennies made of copper can cause a fire but new pennies are made mostly of zinc and that will surely cause a fire when it melts.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Aluminium wiring is bad news*



Country Irish said:


> Regarding rewiring, it should be noted that many houses in the 60's were wired with aluminum. This makes it imperative to upgrade wiring if you find you are one of these unfortunate people who bought such a house.


If you have aluminium wiring please look into rewiring the house. Over time the aluminium oxidizes, and because of the oscillations inherent in alternating current the wire becomes brittle.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, in my parents house; which was mostly wired up with copper; there was exactly one duplex plug that had been wired with aluminum. That one cover plate was always a little warm, and if, while talking on the phone, you should lean against it for awhile it got hot enough that it became uncomfortable and you had to move. The problem with aluminum wiring was always that it was a fire hazard. If you plugged something into the outlet the wire would heat up. Then when you unplugged it the wire would cool down. This heating and cooling made the wire expand and contract; which; over time; made the wire loosen up. This looseness created the opportunity for small arcs to form, and if there was anything flammable nearby a fire would start and your house would go up in flames. The gov't eventually banned aluminum wiring. They used copper-coated aluminum for a few years but that fell out of favor as well. Pure copper is the only way to go.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Me too. 

That aluminum house wring was a menace. Better find out if its in there.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm wondering how you would check for that. I'm hoping because of the age of my house, that the aluminum wiring was not used.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
When you first purchased your home, they should have completed a home inspection, prior to completion of the sale. The report of inspection would have noted the use of such wiring and I doubt that the sale could have gone through, without such wiring being replaced before the transaction was completed. Does aluminum wiring meet construction codes anywhere these days? :icon_scratch:


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm wondering how you would check for that. I'm hoping because of the age of my house, that the aluminum wiring was not used.


If you can see the wiring itself somewhere (e.g., in the basement or attic) the wires will actually be stamped with the word "aluminum" or some abbreviation of it. The main thing with aluminum wiring is that any fixtures that are replaced, like light switches or outlets, must be made for use with aluminum. That can be a problem if you bought the house "used" and you don't know if some former homeowner just installed any old switch or outlet from Home Depot. The big problem with aluminum is that unlike copper oxide, aluminum oxide is a partial insulator, and as the aluminum oxidizes through exposure to the air, the electricity passing through the oxide at connections causes them to heat up. Heat at switches or outlets, or the smell of burning is a cause for immediate concern.


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## Regillus (Mar 15, 2011)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm wondering how you would check for that. I'm hoping because of the age of my house, that the aluminum wiring was not used.


Look at a section of the wire's insulation. It'll be marked "Aluminum" or "Al" or "Alr" if it's pure aluminum. If it's copper-clad aluminum it'll be marked "Cu/Al" or "Cu/Alr." If you just see "Cu" then it's pure copper - which would be the best outcome. Aluminum wiring was used from the 1960's up to the 1980's when the number of houses that caught fire due to aluminum wiring grew so great that state gov'ts banned it and insurance co.'s wouldn't insure your house if it had aluminum wiring. BTW the reason aluminum was used for electrical wiring is that copper became so expensive that an attempt was made to switch to aluminum (cheaper), but it didn't work out.


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