# Do people judge you based solely on your clothes?



## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

Is it just me or does anyone else think people judge others mainly based on their clothes? I never noticed this before but now that I've gotten used to wearing suits and sport coats on most days, it seems like when I go out in a t-shirt and shorts I get ridiculously poor service. 

For example, I'm usually in a suit when I go to the bank. When I send wires, they're friendly and they fill out the forms for me. I went a few days ago in a t-shirt and down jacket and the teller basically brushed it off and said "here's the form, fill it out. Next." Granted my watch probably cost more than her car and the jacket more than her shoes, but I suppose they snap judge you based on the overall appearance and a t-shirt and jeans doesn't cut it.

I also remember going to my other bank last year because there was a problem with my account. I was wearing a t-shirt and shorts and they were extremely unhelpful. I went back the next day in a suit and $700 shoes and it was almost like the account reps were fighting each other to be the one to help me. I skipped the entire line, the branch manager handled my problem personally and I was out of there in less than 5 minutes.

Perhaps the most glaring example of this is Brooks Brothers. If you don't believe me, walk in wearing a t-shirt and shorts and no one will help you. The last time I did this I was looking for shoe trees, and the salesperson said "I know we have some in stock, but I don't know where they are." I stared at her expecting her to go look for them and she didn't move. I said "you gonna look for them then?" and she said "I would but I don't know where they are." On every other trip to BB when I've been wearing a suit or a sport coat, a minimum of 3 salespeople will try to help me and they'll look all over the store for the items I'm looking for, and if they don't have them they'll offer to order them from another store and they'll even fill out the form for me. Sometimes they'll even follow me around giving their own opinions and letting me know what they think would look good with what I already have.

I never noticed this poor level of service before but perhaps I've been spoiling myself by wearing suits everywhere and causing people to treat me better, and now that I'm used to it I balk at the level of service that is in reality no worse than average but that now seems horrendous. Perhaps if I had discovered this in college I could have worn a suit to class and the professors would have just given me straight A's without doing any work at all. Any thoughts?


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

I can't speak for the college grades, as that one may be a contrary indicator. In the real world, yes, you will be treated more than a little bit better if you dress well. Wearing a sport or suit coat, and better yet a tie, gets the attention of almost everyone you meet. It's even better if you stand tall and act respectfully, like you own the place. This has been driven home recently, as I have had to make multiple hospital visits on behalf of my parents. As I do it on the way home from work, I am dressed as mentioned above, and the level of attention is much better. No, it isn't the hospital that I staff, so they don't know me from Adam. My idea is that so few people dress up anymore, and most look like zzzzhhhhhlubbers, so you can really stand out if you dress appropriately or a notch better. I almost never complain anymore about how others dress, as their mistake is money in the bank. If you have a conflict with someone, DRESS UP, and your meeting could turn out better. Just my $0.02.


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## Broadus (Jan 6, 2011)

Clothes have a lot to do with others' impressions of us, as well as our impressions of others, I might add. Of course, from t-shirts to suits is quite a difference, but your point it well taken. I don't usually wear a suit any longer, but I will generally have on ironed khakis and sport shirt and get helpful attention. When I wear a coat and tie, though, it seems more respect is shown.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

That's interesting. I think it's common sense that you'll get treated better in a suit than in a t-shirt, but the level of difference is surprising. By comparison, it's almost like you're a god when you're in a suit and a peasant when in a t-shirt, when I would have assumed it would be more like average in a t-shirt and slightly better than average in a suit.


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

The simple answer is, yes; we are judged by our looks. What we wear, the perceived quality of the clothing, and how it wears on us are all judged. Cannot help it, it is in our DNA I guess. Having said that, looks get you in the door; what you know is what keeps you in there, or not...


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

a!!!!1 said:


> when I go out in a t-shirt and shorts I get ridiculously poor service.


This is why I always go out in a coat and tie - even to buy the newspaper on the weekend.

There are studies that show that even babies respond better to faces that are better looking. The fact that we respond more to someone that presents better is probably hard wired into our brains from birth.

You can rant on about how bad it is to judge people by looks but either you spend your time fighting against how the human brain is hard wired or learn to live with it - and use it to your advantage.


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## simonfoy (Mar 18, 2010)

Absolutely. In the UK we have a shop called Argos and we use it frequently. Our house seems to go through hair dryers every month. Every time I've been in and asked for a replacment they have checked the hair dryer and asked why the faults occured. Always when wearing a casual outfit. So I did an experiment in 3 different outlets When they needed changing I put a shirt and tie on, suited and booted I went intot he shop, they took it at face value and exchanged it without question. One shop the manager seeing me dressed smartly closed his till and came to help me in the queue calling me Sir. 

So yes I too have noticed it around town too, people in shops resoind better if I am dressed up.

As for the hair dryer 6 people use it nightly, they burn out within 3 weeks normally. Price of living with so many ladies I guess.


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## henryh (Feb 5, 2011)

That actually had a big influence on my life. I had an appointment for a job interview. It was with a tachometer company. I had a lot of relevent training in manufacturing and electronics. I went there with the beard I had grown as backlash from a bad hair cut. They just left me sitting in the waiting room, weren't even polite enough to tell me the job had been filled or some other lie.
On thinking it over I decided maybe I should hire myself if I thought I was so good. I started my own business with all the money I had ($100.00). Did that for 10 years, sold out and went sailing for 5 years, lived on an island in the Carribean for another 12 years or so. Then moved back to the states and built a house and workshop and started in business again as something to do in my retirement. My wife and I have traveled all over the world.
www.leathergoodsconnection.com I have 5 shops manned by people I have trained.
The Tachometer Co. went out of business a couple years later. They made mechanical tachs and never made the transition to electronic.
Just think how screwed up my life would have been if I had gone there clean shaven, in a suit.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Well, it certainly helps with bank clerks, clothing salesmen, and so forth, heck, it even helps at the DMV or the Zoning Board, where they're not even trying to sell you something. Not sure if a suit and tie helps with babies, though :biggrin2:


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

I haven't noticed it, but I smile at people, greet them politely (by name if they name tags on) and generally try to be pleasant. Granted, the first impression is key of which a visual component takes up the majority, but in those remaining few seconds you can still use personality and courtesy to help overcome clothing.

On days when I am in a less than pleasant mood, the service I receive drops significantly though. I also tend to dress down on those days. My outer skin matching my inner skin.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

a!!!!1 said:


> That's interesting. I think it's common sense that you'll get treated better in a suit than in a t-shirt, but the level of difference is surprising. By comparison, it's almost like you're a god when you're in a suit and a peasant when in a t-shirt, when I would have assumed it would be more like average in a t-shirt and slightly better than average in a suit.


Well... clothing is what separates the ruling classes from the peasants so its not surprising to me.

I don't notice the difference much in Arizona. Maybe the east coast is different. But I am treated much better when I'm in a suit and tie. Which is why I usually try to wear a collared shirt every time I go out of the house.


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

My experience in the UK is that one's accent governs the 'respect' one receives. Accent - rather than clothes - is an indicator of class in Britian. The amount of prejudice I witness day-to-day in my working environment surpasses what one wears. If you have a RP accent, it will (unfairly) get you far, regardless if you wear Gieves and Hawkes or not. There are not many BBC presenters who have regional accents.


Also - there are many places where one is looked upon with contempt when wearing a suit. 

So, yes, without doubt people judge you on your clothes - but other factors can surpass this (based on my daily observations).


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

henryh said:


> I went there with the beard I had grown as backlash from a bad hair cut.
> Just think how screwed up my life would have been if I had gone there clean shaven, in a suit.


If you'd gone there naked, maybe you'd be Emperor of the Universe now.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Never really given it any thought before. Can't say I've noticed any differences to service, doesn't really matter how I'm dressed.

A douchbag in a suit and tie or a douchbag in t-shirt and jeans, is still a douchbag. And will get treated as such, no matter what they're wearing. Speaking from personal experience here.


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## PhillyKid (Jan 15, 2011)

As a current college student, I can speak to the fact that what you wear really does effect how you are perceived and the type of treatment you get when trying to do anything. 

Several years ago, I was the person who would go out in a tracksuit or matching athletic gear. That is just who I was at the time. I was treated wellb ecause I respected others, but something changed this last year when I gradually became more involved in politics and other perceived "important" things on my college campus. I began to dress better (shirt and tie everyday to my internship) and worry more about my appearance both in the office and at school. The results were amazing, and people would often look and ask questions as if I was someone important. 

The same can be said for something as simple as going to the convenience shop, etc. I really used to hate to "dress up," but now I starting to take a liking to it. I am sure this will become stronger with time. 

Just my personal observations.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Some people here have said that verbal factors - what we say, how we articulate it (eg pleasantness of tone of voice, accent etc) - are extremely important. This is no doubt true, but there are psychologists who say that we grossly underestimate non-verbal factors. These certainly include our body language but also our manner of dress. There are some studies suggesting that people subconciously decide whether they like your not within the first couple of minutes of meeting you. Of these 3-5 minutes, the first minute or so is the most important. That's where your manner of dress, which is effectlively an extension of body language, can help give you an edge over the next person. Yes, dressing is actually a language, and the non-verbal message it communicates "speaks volumes" about you.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

John Malloy wrote a book in the late 70's based upon focus group research. The title is "Dress For Success". While some scoff at it...and parts of it may even be slightly out of date--the principles in it are basically sound and should at least be considered by men concerned with making a certain type of impression with their clothing. I can say, almost certainly, it helped me tremendously in my career.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

henryh said:


> www.leathergoodsconnection.com


I can't recommend your belts highly enough. Excellent work at an excellent price!

To the OP:

Out here in the casual West, where few men ever wear a tie for church or a funeral, let alone work, I notice a distinct difference in how I'm treated when I'm wearing a suit (which is 6 days a week). I'm called "sir" constantly, people seem overly courteous, I get lots of comments and compliments from strangers, and often I'm not charged for small services. Just the yesterday the jeweler adjusted my watch bracelet for free.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

To be perfectly honest I've never really noticed any difference in how I'm treated when I'm wearing jeans as opposed to a coat and tie. Today I was wearing a gray sweatshirt, jeans, and white sneakers while I ran my errands which included a trip to the credit union and I didn't perceive any difference from yesterday when I was out and about in a coat and tie. 

I think a bigger factor is whether you look neat and clean or look sloppy. One can wear jeans, sneakers, and a sweat shirt and still look neat if your clothes are clean, fit well, and in a good state of repair.

Cruiser


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

This is an amazing thread! You gentlemen are actually making sense and no one is flaming you!

I would *never* have landed this current job if it hadn't been for presentation.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

henryh said:


> ...Just think how screwed up my life would have been if I had gone there clean shaven, in a suit.


But they would have treated you more nicely.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Jake Genezen said:


> My experience in the UK is that one's accent governs the 'respect' one receives. Accent - rather than clothes - is an indicator of class in Britain.


 I think you exaggerate here - this might have been true 50 years ago.


> The amount of prejudice I witness day-to-day in my working environment surpasses what one wears.


You happen to live in a town where the local accent, for some reason, has particularly low status. It seems to be the accents of the conurbations which are most disliked (though to me the Geordie accent of north-eastern England is very attractive).
(For our USA readers - RP = "received pronunciation" - defined in the 1920s.)


> If you have a RP accent, it will (unfairly) get you far...There are not many BBC presenters who have regional accents.


Again, I don't think the latter statement is true; for example, the newsreader Huw Edwards has a very pleasant Carmarthenshire accent, and the practised ear will pick up other Welsh, Scottish, Irish, northern and south-western English speakers of standard English with regional intonation. The south-eastern "estuary English" - basically a mix of RP and the regional accent of London - is very commonly heard on the BBC - and is as much a "regional" accent as are those originating far from London.


> Also - there are many places where one is looked upon with contempt when wearing a suit. So, yes, without doubt people judge you on your clothes - but other factors can surpass this (based on my daily observations).


In this, unfortunately, you are absolutely right!


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## blaze79 (Jan 7, 2010)

henryh said:


> That actually had a big influence on my life. I had an appointment for a job interview. It was with a tachometer company. I had a lot of relevent training in manufacturing and electronics. I went there with the beard I had grown as backlash from a bad hair cut. They just left me sitting in the waiting room, weren't even polite enough to tell me the job had been filled or some other lie.
> On thinking it over I decided maybe I should hire myself if I thought I was so good. I started my own business with all the money I had ($100.00). Did that for 10 years, sold out and went sailing for 5 years, lived on an island in the Carribean for another 12 years or so. Then moved back to the states and built a house and workshop and started in business again as something to do in my retirement. My wife and I have traveled all over the world.
> www.leathergoodsconnection.com I have 5 shops manned by people I have trained.
> The Tachometer Co. went out of business a couple years later. They made mechanical tachs and never made the transition to electronic.
> Just think how screwed up my life would have been if I had gone there clean shaven, in a suit.


Life - it seems - always comes down to a few defining moments


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Your attire may provide an initial visual impression but, your manners, cleanliness, and other more subtle factors quickly come into play, as you continue with your interactions! Clothing is not everything but, it can get your foot in the door so others might have a chance to appreciate everything else that comes with the package!


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

I share Orsini's delight that these posts are sensible and informative and that this thread is free of flames. The OP's assumption is obviously correct in situations where people see you before they converse with you, if we allow "clothes" to mean "appearance." Later, speech and manners can affect a first impression, but nothing can change what is past. Nobody has yet mentioned the affect of appearance when one is in a position of authority. As an archivist and rare book curator, I often made statements of fact and offered opinions that, as a practical matter, could not be checked, so the credibility and authority conveyed by decent dress, correct speech and good (academic) manners was important. Like all in my profession, I often had to tell people some version of "No." That, too, was better accepted from someone who dressed and behaved with assured authority. The few times I have testified as an expert witness taught me that attorneys in large firms and jury consultants know about these matters, but they know more and in greater detail. One consultant and her staff tested me in three different, but similar, tweed jackets before deciding on the one that conveyed the sort of academic authority they thought best.


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

williamson said:


> I think you exaggerate here - this might have been true 50 years ago.
> 
> You happen to live in a town where the local accent, for some reason, has particularly low status. It seems to be the accents of the conurbations which are most disliked (though to me the Geordie accent of north-eastern England is very attractive).
> (For our USA readers - RP = "received pronunciation" - defined in the 1920s.)


Unfortunately it's true to this day. A redbrick university did an interesting experiment a couple of years ago: a lecturer delivered a lecture in a regional accent. The same lecturer, on a different day, did it in a RP accent. Students said that the RP lecture was much more informative and authoritative, and dismissed the content of the lecture delivered in a regional accent.



> Again, I don't think the latter statement is true; for example, the newsreader Huw Edwards has a very pleasant Carmarthenshire accent, and the practised ear will pick up other Welsh, Scottish, Irish, northern and south-western English speakers of standard English with regional intonation. The south-eastern "estuary English" - basically a mix of RP and the regional accent of London - is very commonly heard on the BBC - and is as much a "regional" accent as are those originating far from London.


Yes, it's true that there are some variations, but hardly regional (apart for a couple of instances). The BBC, for example, was under pressure to be more 'representative' of the public. Local accents tend to be used for peripheral news reporting like sports, weather, etc. It is much better than it used to be, but has along way to go, in my opinion.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I recall going to meet with a new estate-planning lawyer a few years back when Dad was still alive. My older sister, who always looks well-dressed and put together, was with me as we were "interviewing" this firm and wanted to swap notes later. It was winter and I was wearing a tweed jacket, suede vest, and a bow tie. The associate we met with eyed for a long moment, swallowed, and said "Are you by any chance an attorney?" I told him I was not. My folks' estate was not particularly large; I like to think maybe we got slightly better service because we looked like we meant business.

As for banks, it's a pleasure to go the one near my office for routine monthly business dealing with a family trust. The staff is mostly African-American, and the men are good dressers (in general, I've found that African-American gentlemen have a keen appreciation for classic style). We often end the transaction by complimenting each other on this pocket square or that collar bar, etc. True, I've received decent service on days I've gone in without a tie on, but it still does not hurt to be well turned-out sartorially, in my opinion. (The well-dressed tellers, btw, are a good illustration of how you don't necessarily need to spend a fortune to dress well. I can't imagine they make much money, and most are young guys in their 20s, but they always look good, and at ease in what they are wearing.)


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

How you dress clearly matters in job interviews.

I'd say it also makes an impression in business situations. And when you go to a bank or restaurant it is a business situation. Maybe not for you, but for them. So if you wear a suit people are likely to take you more seriously and you will get better service at non-fast food places. Don't confuse that with them actually liking or respecting you as a person. And it also doesn't last because in the end, tips are king. If you tip 10%, I don't care if you show up wearing a bespoke suit; your service will be lousy. Regularly tip 20% and you can come in wearing t-shirt and shorts and you will get drinks comped.

You will obviously be taken more seriously at a business suit store if you walk in wearing a business suit. OTOH there are plenty of super-expensive, couture-ish places in NY or LA where a business suit marks you as a square and has the opposite impact. Of course that is probably of no concern since conservative suit-and-tie people aren't likely to be interested in going to such places.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

jean-paul sartorial said:


> How you dress clearly matters in job interviews.


Wow! Another rational factual statement! My faith is (somewhat) restorted!



jean-paul sartorial said:


> ...Regularly tip 20% and you can come in wearing t-shirt and shorts and you will get drinks comped.


This is true, too. Good customers who tip a dollar per service unit get cut some slack when they drik too much while bad customers get eighty-sixed...


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

a!!!!1 said:


> " Granted my watch probably cost more than her car and the jacket more than her shoes, but I suppose they snap judge you based on the overall appearance and a t-shirt and jeans doesn't cut it.


Money doesn't buy class. I'd prefer to deal with a well-dressed poor person than a slovenly-dressed rich person. Clothes aren't just about how the person carries his or herself, it's also about the level of respect for others they are projecting. When you show up in my office dressed like a bum, that means you don't respect my time. Thus you'll be treated like a bum.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

my boss shows up in my office dressed like a bum on a daily basis...


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

jean-paul sartorial said:


> my boss shows up in my office dressed like a bum on a daily basis...


And yet he is your "boss." Apparently dressing like a bum hasn't held him back as I assume that you aspire to rise to his level at least. :icon_smile_big:

I'm just having some fun with you, but this does bring up something that I see in the forum on a regular basis. There will be a discussion of this or that and folks will appear to be at odds with one another when in reality they are simply defining things differently.

For example, of course how you dress makes an impression on those with whom you interact. The problem is that some immediately define "dressing well" or "looking nice" as meaning one must be wearing a suit and tie. While it certainly might mean this in a particular situation, for most going through the daily routines of life it is really more about simply wearing neat, clean clothing that fits well and is appropriate to whatever situation one is in at that point in time.

This afternoon I'm going to Home Depot to buy a new shower head, one of those fancy ones with all of the different spray settings. I'm wearing a pair of jeans, sneakers, a long sleeve tee shirt, and a lightweight jacket; all of which is neat, clean, and fits well. I imagine the service I get from the clerk will be no less than I would get if I wore a suit.

I will also stop in at a casual restaurant, perhaps Applebee's, for something to eat. There will probably be a few men there in coats and ties if they are on their way home from Church. (I went to an early morning service) I seriously doubt that I will be treated any different by the wait staff because of my attire given that it is neat, clean, and appropriate to my environment.

On the other hand I am going out to dinner tomorrow night at a much nicer restaurant. While I won't be wearing a suit and tie, I will have on a jacket with a dress shirt and dress pants. Will I get better service than what I would get if I were to wear what I'm wearing to Home Depot today? Perhaps, but that is because what I'm wearing to Home Depot today isn't entirely appropriate for where I will be tomorrow night; however, at the same time I doubt that I will get worse service tomorrow night simply because I don't have on a suit and tie.

To me the most important element is to try to always be wearing neat, clean, clothing that fits well and is appropriate to the given environment.

Cruiser


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

So true. All my friends consider me well dressed, and I only wear a suit two days out of the week. And on those days I barely see anyone out of the office.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

harvey_birdman said:


> Money doesn't buy class. I'd prefer to deal with a well-dressed poor person than a slovenly-dressed rich person. Clothes aren't just about how the person carries his or herself, it's also about the level of respect for others they are projecting. When you show up in my office dressed like a bum, that means you don't respect my time. Thus you'll be treated like a bum.





Cruiser said:


> For example, of course how you dress makes an impression on those with whom you interact. The problem is that some immediately define "dressing well" or "looking nice" as meaning one must be wearing a suit and tie. While it certainly might mean this in a particular situation, for most going through the daily routines of life it is really more about simply wearing neat, clean clothing that fits well and is appropriate to whatever situation one is in at that point in time.
> 
> This afternoon I'm going to Home Depot to buy a new shower head, one of those fancy ones with all of the different spray settings. I'm wearing a pair of jeans, sneakers, a long sleeve tee shirt, and a lightweight jacket; all of which is neat, clean, and fits well. I imagine the service I get from the clerk will be no less than I would get if I wore a suit.


Cruiser I can't say my experiences agree with yours. My casual clothing (jeans, t-shirts, polos, North Face jackets, etc) are all high quality, well-fitting items (remember I'm the guy who even has his t-shirts tailored, lol). But I get significantly better service when I'm "dressed up." And Harvey, I like to think I'm reasonably polite to most people although I do brush people off and try to get things done quickly sometimes - but my attitude is a constant no matter what I'm wearing, so it isn't relevant. It might be because I'm still in my early 20's so whenever I go out in casual clothes, people think "oh it's just a kid." Of course I don't get poor service EVERYWHERE (in fact I get very good service at a lot of places), I'm just saying that on average the suit definitely attracts noticeably better service.

On the other hand, I seem to get better "results" with girls when I'm dressed casually. I think most girls aren't used to well-dressed guys and if you show up in a suit they think you're just an asshole trying to impress them, so after a lot of experimentation my typical going-out-with-girls outfit has been changed from a suit without a tie to a t-shirt and khaki shorts.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

Cruiser said:


> And yet he is your "boss." Apparently dressing like a bum hasn't held him back as I assume that you aspire to rise to his level at least. :icon_smile_big:


Well, in this particular case I actually DON'T aspire to his position. But I'm at least interested in holding my current job, so there's no way I'm going to treat him like a bum! :biggrin2:

Besides, I like and respect my boss so I treat him with the deference he has earned by knowing his field and being good at his job and being a good boss to me personally.

I work in government. At some level, in order to advance you have to become political. If my boss were to dress better and behave a certain way he definitely could make more money and "advance" in his career. But he would also get to do less of the things that he views as interesting and/or important to him. He's well-respected by the people whose respect means something to him, which is really all that is important. If he dressed more like "a suit" he'd probably lose respect among many of the people he worked with, because they'd peg him as a politico. On the instances where we need to talk to politicos directly, he dresses appropriately.

So I agree with what you are saying, that's why I brought up that example.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

It shouldn't, but what you wear (in most social settings) does affect peoples' perceptions of you. It's a amazing what you get out of a clean shirt, sport coat, well-polished shoes, a nice PS...and the ability to say "please" and "thank you."


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## henryh (Feb 5, 2011)

blaze79 said:


> Life - it seems - always comes down to a few defining moments


You never realize it when it's happening though.

I think if I had been married at the time my wife would have said. "You aren't going there looking like that, are you". However, I'd had another defining moment that had kept me single.

Wow...think of it, being married and getting that job at the tachometer factory... Bummer

"Where you are is the result of choices you have made."


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## Master-Classter (Jan 22, 2009)

very interesting thread!

something that hasn't been brought up yet is the factor of people reacting better to you not just directly because of how you're dressed and therefore the beliefs they form about you, but also how YOU may be acting and thinking differently because of the way you're dressed and how that might influence their thoughts. 

this was partly brought up as the point about non-verbal communication, but to me it's not just how you look but also how you act, and that act is in part based on what you believe about yourself. So if by putting on a suit and tie (just for example) makes you think of yourself as more of a good looking, confident, authoritative, etc person, then even as you're just walking around you project that image out along with the clothes. As someone above put it, a douche in a suit is still a douche, so it's as much about your body language in that getup and the congruence between the two that is what makes people react to you. Even if yuo're the most confident guy "wearing a watch that costs more then her car", the missing nice clothes can pull you down a little... so it's both factors, the mindset/behaviour as well as the clothes.


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## henryh (Feb 5, 2011)

How does Joe Buck get these big gigs? Is it his suit?


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## Dennis V. (Apr 20, 2010)

I've noticed that in some cases you are treated better when dressed in a suit and tie, and sometimes worse, and sometimes it doesn't matter.

Whenever I go to the grocery store wearing a suit and tie it seems I am treated much better. When I'm in casual clothes and there are no registers open because almost no customers are there it might take upto a couple of minutes before anyone shows up to open one. When I'm in a suit, tie and overcoat, all I need to do is look in the general direction of the cash register and an employee hurries to it to open it up, reaching it way before I do.

When I go to a car parts store to pick up some parts to fix up my old rickety car it does not seem to make a difference, wether I go in suit and tie, or in oil stained overalls, I assume they have seen it all and just don't care, same thing at the car dealership.

With job interviews it matters if you are dressed for the job, I once got a job building scaffolding and carrying supplies for a large music festival, wearing a suit to the job interview would have done me no good, street clothes was the right choice for that interview. When I applied for a job as a techsupport at a major ISP I was the best dressed person applying, but I also outdressed everyone working there. Suits and ties were definitly frowned upon there and obviously I didn't get the job.


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## simonfoy (Mar 18, 2010)

My brother went into Jag UK to buy 2 jags one for him and one for his Mrs. First time he went in with jeans on they never approached him, in fact they told him to ask before he touched any car.
Second time he went in with a suit on, they fell over themselves to help him. Try any car you like blah blah. So he pointed it out to them that he came in last week and they didn't want to help him. He left empty handed and went to Merc insead. 

I for one think you get treated better the smarter you are. Seen it myself. Not that it is right as most rick people I know dress badly.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

First impressions are more important at the lower end of the food chain--as when you are interviewing for a job. I'd say the way you dress becomes less and less important as you go up and grow older. A general in a t-shirt will still have that air of command. A doctor in a scrub suit will still strike fear in the hearts of interns and residents. A law partner or CEO will still project power in not-exactly-visual ways that someone with no gray hair will have to spend years mastering. An "empty suit" will always be an "empty suit" be it Sears or Oxxford. Clothes can help you get started, but before too long you're on your own.


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## Ed Reynolds (Apr 13, 2010)

I just want to say that I went on a recent job interview and thought I was pretty put together, but did not get the job. Turns out it will probably work out in the end, but dressing the part doesn't always guarantee success. 

On interviews for server/restaurant positions I find it helpful to not wear a tie.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Ed Reynolds said:


> ...but dressing the part doesn't always guarantee success...


And nobody ever said it did.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

henryh said:


> How does Joe Buck get these big gigs? Is it his suit?


No, it's his father, the late legendary Hall of Fame sportscaster Jack Buck.

Cruiser


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

a!!!!1 said:


> Cruiser I can't say my experiences agree with yours. My casual clothing (jeans, t-shirts, polos, North Face jackets, etc) are all high quality, well-fitting items (remember I'm the guy who even has his t-shirts tailored, lol). But I get significantly better service when I'm "dressed up."


Well, that's probably not the same things Cruiser walks around in (with the exception of jeans and polos). Besides, he's got several decades on us. The gray hair alone gets him respect.  No offense Cruiser.

But joking aside, I typically wear a button down and jeans in winter and at least a polo & light weight khakis in the summer. I don't wear "sporty" jackets though. I always try to wear nice shoes regardless of whats on top. But it gets really hot here so I wear flip flops, but so does everyone else. I don't get treated much worse if I wear my casual clothes. I definitely profile people based on what they wear though.



Ed Reynolds said:


> I just want to say that I went on a recent job interview and thought I was pretty put together, but did not get the job. Turns out it will probably work out in the end, but dressing the part doesn't always guarantee success.
> 
> On interviews for server/restaurant positions I find it helpful to not wear a tie.


Was everyone else equally well put together, or at least not far behind?


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

williamson said:


> You happen to live in a town where the local accent, for some reason, has particularly low status.











Both men are wearing suits in Boston.

A collection of learned accents: https://www.youtube.com/user/danthemanfresno2006


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

simonfoy said:


> My brother went into Jag UK to buy 2 jags one for him and one for his Mrs. First time he went in with jeans on they never approached him, in fact they told him to ask before he touched any car.
> Second time he went in with a suit on, they fell over themselves to help him. Try any car you like blah blah. So he pointed it out to them that he came in last week and they didn't want to help him. He left empty handed and went to Merc insead.


That's interesting because I had almost the same experience. I went to look at Aston Martins a few months ago in khaki shorts and a t-shirt and the salesperson basically said they don't allow test drives, which was obviously BS. I replied that I probably make more in a month than he does in a year and that my watch is worth more than the car anyway and he's welcome to hold it if he likes, and he hesitated and said "ummmm ok well let me get you to do a credit check first." The next weekend I went to another dealership wearing a suit and they didn't ask any questions, no credit check, just gave me the keys. It was so ridiculous that even though the first dealership had the color I wanted, I didn't buy it just because I didn't like the guy.


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## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

I agree totally, you get treated better the better you are dressed. I first noticed this on my commute when my office at the time switched to business casual. I choked this up to in a suit "I was someone important" without a suit "I looked like a guy that worked at the mall."

It goes beyond clothes. Any sign of affluence changes the way people treat you. We have two cars, a beat up old Hyundai and a newer Saab 9-5. We are treated completely differently when pulling up at a drive through, gas station, etc. In some cases you may think they are just looking for a bigger tip but in many cases it is not a situation where one would tip... 

Although not as noticeable, I see the same thing while wearing an expensive watch. I always go out of my way to wear an expensive watch at the Doctor's or Dentist's office. I noticed a big difference in level of service in both places (although that should not be the case...).

In the car the car trumps everything because it is the first thing noticed. Once outside of the car no one knows what you drive so the clothes are the first thing noticed.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

(Replying to a!!!!1)

Not about clothes, and I know it's possible for anyone to present any information on the internet regarding who they are.

If you are being genuine, you seem to be really focused on how much money you have versus others. If you really have these feelings, they could easily project out from you in non-verbal ways that bring about some of the reactions you get.

I'm a person who enjoys clothing and has posted here for a long time. I'm 54 with some grey hair and I dress up about three days a week. I notice no real change in how people treat me versus how I'm dressed. I'm really not hung up on how much "respect" I get from service people. At well-managed places you get good service; at poorly managed places some employees are either unmotivated or untrained and don't always provide good service.

I guess this whole thread amuses me. I find that on the whole, if I dress appropriately for a situation, and treat people with respect, I get respect. In a grocery store or bank, I dress how I happen to have dressed that day. My track record with these people (which I nurture carefully) helps me get things done for myself and/or my employer if I really need it. The fact that I don't "cry wolf" or demand a lot of superficial subservience probably has more to do with this than how I dress. 

(I enjoy dressing up and do it more than a lot of people, but I don't wear coat and tie every day.)

Orsini, I'll give you a pass because you were talking about a job interview for a professional position. This is an obvious situation where making a professional first impression can help you a great deal. (Plus I know you are not pompous from other communications.) 

I wonder about a lot of the rest of you, though. I enjoy dressing well (at least by my standards -- unless I win the lottery, I will never own anything bespoke.) I certainly don't expect to be catered to or think I'm better than someone who is not in coat and tie. That probably helps me a lot more than what I happen to be wearing at the moment.


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## Bookman (May 19, 2010)

Master-Classter said:


> very interesting thread!
> 
> something that hasn't been brought up yet is the factor of people reacting better to you not just directly because of how you're dressed and therefore the beliefs they form about you, but also how YOU may be acting and thinking differently because of the way you're dressed and how that might influence their thoughts.


+1
Certainly having a sharp appearance makes a difference; but, I think dress that makes you more confident is a major aspect of the phenomenon. Some people can wear a particular suit and command respect; others simply look out of place. I think the same is true of a lot of casual wear. Of course, being inappropriately dressed trumps this kind of confidence.

Great thread...thanks for all the thoughtful, well-articulated posts...


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Of course they judge you by your clothes! Humans can't help it - it's a prehistoric/subliminal part of our brains.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

nosajwols said:


> I agree totally, you get treated better the better you are dressed. I first noticed this on my commute when my office at the time switched to business casual. I choked this up to in a suit "I was someone important" without a suit "I looked like a guy that worked at the mall."


Women say that if they start to wear casual clothes to the workplace they suddenly find themselves ignored, and that it just increases the amount of stress because people start questioning their authority whereas before they did what they were told.

In our day and age, this is perhaps the strongest argument of them all against business casual dress - that it disadvantages women and racial minorities.

The great thing about the modern suit is that it is a very democratic dress and a great equaliser.


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## Theoden (Dec 16, 2009)

Yes, it's pretty clear people do judge us on our clothing, our manner of speech, our attractiveness, and our overall state of fitness.

After I graduated college in the late 80's I went on a a trip to Europe to see my family in the fall for a 6 week trip. A cousin of mine advised me to get a haircut before I left, and made sure that I travelled in khakis, button down long sleeve shirt and brown leather shoes. He said it would get me through customs much easier, and people would treat me better. I added a black wool topcoat. So, when my plane landed in Lyon. France, I noticed some things. I chatted up a pretty French doctor on the flight. She told me she bought an entire stereo system in the US and hoped that French customs wouldn't notice it in her luggage. She was dressed in a a wool pair of slacks, lovely shoes and a pretty blouse. I also stuck up a conversation with a guy who was a welder and he was going to work on a contract at EuroDisney. He looked pretty much like a dead-head. Jean jacket and torn blue-jeans, and long hair in a pony-tail. When we got off the plane, the French doctor and I got though customs with no problems. The guy who was supposed to work for disney, had every piece of his luggage opened and thoroughly searched.

Interesting, eh?

--Alan


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Master-Classter said:


> So if by putting on a suit and tie (just for example) makes you think of yourself as more of a good looking, confident, authoritative, etc person, then even as you're just walking around you project that image out along with the clothes. As someone above put it, a douche in a suit is still a douche, so it's as much about your body language in that getup and the congruence between the two that is what makes people react to you.


Very true and well put.

Another way of thinking about it is that clothes are an extension of body language. Being well dressed is like more positive and friendly body language.

This is why psychiatrists include the dress and grooming of a patient as part of their formal "mental status examination". If a person is dishevelled and badly dressed it often coincides with a disordered mental status eg suicidal and depressed. The opposite is true when a person presents a positive and well groomed image of themselves. Our manner of dress is partly a mirror of our inner selves.

So it isn't surprising that when we do up our seven fold bespoke ties in the mirror we actually can't help but be more mentally positive, confident and upbeat. It doesn't matter if the confidence expressed itself in better dress or whether better dress produced more confidence - the two things are just mirror images of each other, and a reflection of our inner mind.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

If you go to snobby places like luxury car dealerships or country clubs and you don't dress well-to-do, there will be certain people who will be quite rude to you.

The solution to this is not to dress better, but to stop going to those places.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

From Sator:

"So it isn't surprising that when we do up our seven fold bespoke ties in the mirror we actually can't help but be more mentally positive, confident and upbeat. It doesn't matter if the confidence expressed itself in better dress or whether better dress produced more confidence - the two things are just mirror images of each other, and a reflection of our inner mind. "



Of course, this can only be accomplished with a seven-fold bespoke tie - - - -


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## henryh (Feb 5, 2011)

simonfoy said:


> My brother went into Jag UK to buy 2 jags one for him and one for his Mrs. First time he went in with jeans on they never approached him, in fact they told him to ask before he touched any car.
> Second time he went in with a suit on, they fell over themselves to help him. Try any car you like blah blah. So he pointed it out to them that he came in last week and they didn't want to help him. He left empty handed and went to Merc insead.
> 
> I for one think you get treated better the smarter you are. Seen it myself. Not that it is right as most rick people I know dress badly.


How can one do that? a Merc instead of a Jag? just because of the salesman... Maybe if you are talking one of those new ugly ones, but not an XJ6 or 12. I got an XJ6 for my wife and she loves it for the style.

I drive a cargo van so that my dogs can ride with me. Obviously I don't wear a suit. I do have a nice jacket that I got in Rome that I wear to restaurants, concerts and such. I wear it with jeans and the shoes I got in Brazil. For me that is dressing up and I feel good wearing it. I don't care what others think about how I look. I'm 66 and bald. Clothes aren't going to do much for me. People do call me "Sir" for some reason.

I do think it is important at a younger age. People do have a first impression based on looks, it's kind of a game isn't it. To me the suit was always a "Uniform". When I see a "Suit" I think it's some kind of salesman.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Sator said:


> Being well dressed is like more positive and friendly body language.
> 
> This is why psychiatrists include the dress and grooming of a patient as part of their formal "mental status examination". If a person is dishevelled and badly dressed it often coincides with a disordered mental status eg suicidal and depressed. The opposite is true when a person presents a positive and well groomed image of themselves.


But again do we have different people talking about different things? Of course it is almost always beneficial to be well groomed and nicely dressed; but does this mean that one must be dressed in a suit and tie? After all it is entirely possible to be dishevelled and badly dressed while wearing a suit, I see this every day; and neat and well groomed in casual clothing, something I also see every day.

Having said that, I do understand the power of something like a coat and tie for a twenty something, a person who is in between being a teenager and being someone who most recognize as having a modicum of maturity. I once went so far as to put on an old ring I found that looked like a wedding band in an attempt to look more mature and get treated better by car salesmen.

Clearly wearing clothes that are perceived as more "adult" can result in more self confidence in the wearer of the clothes thereby increasing the chances that he will be treated differently by the world around him; however, this lessens greatly as one ages. I suppose that's why I experience no significant difference in how I am treated whether I'm in casual clothing or a coat and tie.

The key point is that no matter what type clothing I'm wearing, it's always neat and clean. At the end of the day that is far more important than the type of clothing I'm wearing as long as what I'm wearing is acceptable for the environment in which I'm wearing it. At least that's how life is for a sixty something. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I wonder about a lot of the rest of you, though. I enjoy dressing well (at least by my standards -- unless I win the lottery, I will never own anything bespoke.) I certainly don't expect to be catered to or think I'm better than someone who is not in coat and tie. That probably helps me a lot more than what I happen to be wearing at the moment.


I don't think anyone here thinks they're better than others or that they should be catered to, just that I expect to be treated with a certain level of respect and a reasonable level of service, especially if you're a salesperson and it's your job to help me. If someone tries to be a snob and disrespect me because they think I'm poor when they can't even tell the difference between a Seiko and an Audemars, I have no problem embarrassing them to prove a point.



Sator said:


> Women say that if they start to wear casual clothes to the workplace they suddenly find themselves ignored, and that it just increases the amount of stress because people start questioning their authority whereas before they did what they were told.
> 
> In our day and age, this is perhaps the strongest argument of them all against business casual dress - that it disadvantages women and racial minorities.
> 
> The great thing about the modern suit is that it is a very democratic dress and a great equaliser.


What exactly is business casual for women? I can't say I've ever worn business casual in my life, if it's business it's always a suit.


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## riyadh552 (Mar 4, 2009)

Dressing well will generally serve you well in short term situations (banks, stores, airports, etc), and will certainly create a good first impression. However, as someone who takes pride and care in how well I dress everyday, I will say this: good manners, how well you carry yourself, the ability to carry on intelligent conversations, and the respect and compassion with which you treat all those around you (regardless of how they dress, or how they behave), will leave a far longer lasting impression, and get you farther in life.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> Having said that, I do understand the power of something like a coat and tie for a twenty something, a person who is in between being a teenager and being someone who most recognize as having a modicum of maturity. I once went so far as to put on an old ring I found that looked like a wedding band in an attempt to look more mature and get treated better by car salesmen.
> 
> Clearly wearing clothes that are perceived as more "adult" can result in more self confidence in the wearer of the clothes thereby increasing the chances that he will be treated differently by the world around him; however, this lessens greatly as one ages. I suppose that's why I experience no significant difference in how I am treated whether I'm in casual clothing or a coat and tie.


That's an interesting point. Looking back, I don't remember perceiving an increased level of confidence when in a suit vs when not in a suit, but perhaps there is and I just haven't noticed it.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

a!!!!1 said:


> I don't think anyone here thinks they're better than others or that they should be catered to, just that I expect to be treated with a certain level of respect and a reasonable level of service, especially if you're a salesperson and it's your job to help me. If someone tries to be a snob and disrespect me because they think I'm poor when they can't even tell the difference between a Seiko and an Audemars, I have no problem embarrassing them to prove a point.
> 
> Maybe you should develop a problem with this.
> 
> ...


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## jimmyfingers (Sep 14, 2010)

Well, I seem to get excellent service no matter what I am wearing. I never sales assoc/clerks/etc. running up to me trying to compete for my business like some of you. Of course, I have cases where people are rude to be, but they are the type that have issues and are rude to everybody. These instances are few and far between though.

My Dad gets the "above and beyond" excellent service that some of you are talking about it. He just turned 60 and is grey + bald. Pretty much all his suits/dress/pants/dress shoes comes from JCPennys and he will wait until the clothes are completely worn before getting more. A few people have commented to me on the excellent service he gets. I work for him so we travel together all the time for business. When I am with him, the clerks never even make eye contact with me and focus just on him. 

I suspect my age (26) has something to do with it. However, it is much better than when I was 24.

I tend to judge people on teeth and grammer during first impressions.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> a!!!!1 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think anyone here thinks they're better than others or that they should be catered to, just that I expect to be treated with a certain level of respect and a reasonable level of service, especially if you're a salesperson and it's your job to help me. If someone tries to be a snob and disrespect me because they think I'm poor when they can't even tell the difference between a Seiko and an Audemars, I have no problem embarrassing them to prove a point.
> ...


Is it unrealistic to expect a BB salesperson to look for the shoe trees herself as opposed to saying "yes, we have them in stock" and then telling me to go get them myself? Is it unrealistic to expect a car dealer to let me test drive a car before I hand over $200,000? If so, then yes, I do expect to be catered to to an "unrealistic" extent. If he wants to stand there and say "yeah we don't let people touch the cars" just because I'm wearing a t-shirt, that's his problem and I'd much rather buy it somewhere else where the people are friendly and helpful.

In the example of the teller filling out the wire info for me, sure it's not unreasonable for them to ask me to fill it out myself and I don't even mind doing it. But the point of this thread is that when wearing a suit, I don't need to, and when in a t-shirt, I do. And like I said, I don't have too many bad experiences, but if you average out every experience I've had it's obvious that dressing well averages better service.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

A1, most of these guys are almost twice your age and mine. Probably has more to do with it than what they wear.

I look like I'm 18/20 to some people when I wear a t-shirt and shorts.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

I'm not surprised in the slightest that certain salesmen at luxury car dealerships are snobby jerks. And yes, especially if you are young. 

At the same time, when you yell at them for not recognizing your watch, you're perpetuating the problem. You're telling them you should be treated better because you are wearing an expensive watch, not because all customers deserve a certain amount of respect regardless of attire and accessories. The only thing this guy is going to learn is to make sure to check on someone's watch as well as their clothes before deciding to treat them like dirt.

Then you went to the second dealership and you WERE wearing a suit and you got better treatment. And presumably you then treated the salesperson better. But it's not like the second dealer was necessarily less snobby, it's just that you decided you were willing to play the game.

So it's kinda like play by the rules (albeit somewhat reluctantly) and complain about disparate treatment based on attire less, or be a hero and dress how you want and insist on equal treatment. Because when you're at BB in your suit and getting the "suit" treatment, who is it that is getting less of the sales staff's time because they are spending it on you? Probably the young guy without a suit; ie. the guy that used to be you.

I purposely dress down whenever I go buy something expensive. Because I figure if I show up in jeans and get the same service as someone in a $1500 suit, I know that place is committed to customer service. But if I do get a bit of the snob treatment, I just leave. That is a lost commission for the salesperson and a lost sale for the store. Hitting them in the pocketbook is the strongest message you can send. Going off on a rant-- no matter how tempting it might be-- generally just makes you look as bad as they do and it just confuses the message.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

a!!!!1 said:


> I don't think anyone here thinks they're better than others or that they should be catered to, just that I expect to be treated with a certain level of respect and a reasonable level of service, especially if you're a salesperson and it's your job to help me. *If someone tries to be a snob and disrespect me because they think I'm poor when they can't even tell the difference between a Seiko and an Audemars, I have no problem embarrassing them to prove a point.*


Do you know how terrible this response is making you sound?


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

jean-paul sartorial said:


> I purposely dress down whenever I go buy something expensive. Because I figure if I show up in jeans and get the same service as someone in a $1500 suit, I know that place is committed to customer service.


I don't mind "playing the game" for small purchases like clothes to get better service at BB but you have a really good point and I think for large purchases like cars and such I'll take your advice and dress down for it. Customer service is a huge part of a car purchase and the dealer who only sells them to guys with nice watches probably doesn't put much effort into servicing them after the purchase.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

ZachGranstrom said:


> Do you know how terrible this response is making you sound?


Oh, I don't think so at all. I think it's very educational. I've always believed that respect is something you have to earn, and the way you are treated is usually commensurate with the way you treat others. Apparently I've been wrong about this all my life - it seems that if you wear an expensive watch you automatically get respect, and you are entitled to treat salespeople as serfs. If I'd only known....


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## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

When buying a luxury car there is one thing we have to keep in mind, every joker out there would love to take a new Ferrari or whatever for a test "spin." The dealers must do some quick triage to determine if you are a serious buyer (and have the ability to buy the car) or the above mentioned joker (no way you can afford it). Tons of people walk in those doors doing nothing but waste their time. You can go in wearing jeans and a ripped t-shirt and get good service (because they saw the $100K car you pulled up in). They are (or should be) experts in superficial quick analysis (car, watch, clothes), they have to be--it is a job requirement. They of course are not perfect (I am sure more than a few lottery winners have been rebuffed on day one when they try to buy that big dollar new car).

Just don't be surprised if you get poor service if you wear your old jeans a timex and pull up in my old Hyundai!

Sometimes there is a reason for different "levels" of service. How sinister, is all about perspective (I am sure the sales guy LOVES having people come in looking for a test spin that could never buy the car).

BTW, I am not and have never been in car sales....


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

Wearing nicer clothes that the general public does get you better service and better treatment almost universally.
However, that is just part of the equation. You have to have the demeanor and manners to go with the sportcoat or suit and tie. If you're in an Oxxford suit and start acting like a jerk, people will treat you accordingly.
If you're wearing a Savile Row custom suite and tip the waitress $5 on an $80 meal, you'll be treated like a cheapskate.

Having said that, clothes also affects the way you behave. If you don't believe me, put on a police uniform and you'll see ...


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

a!!!!1 said:


> Is it unrealistic to expect a BB salesperson to look for the shoe trees herself as opposed to saying "yes, we have them in stock" and then telling me to go get them myself? Is it unrealistic to expect a car dealer to let me test drive a car before I hand over $200,000? If so, then yes, I do expect to be catered to to an "unrealistic" extent. If he wants to stand there and say "yeah we don't let people touch the cars" just because I'm wearing a t-shirt, that's his problem and I'd much rather buy it somewhere else where the people are friendly and helpful.
> 
> In the example of the teller filling out the wire info for me, sure it's not unreasonable for them to ask me to fill it out myself and I don't even mind doing it. But the point of this thread is that when wearing a suit, I don't need to, and when in a t-shirt, I do. And like I said, I don't have too many bad experiences, but if you average out every experience I've had it's obvious that dressing well averages better service.


I think I'll stick with my assessment. I think you need some general life experiences that you have not had. You will not understand what I'm trying to tell you, so I'll stop here.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

I'm sure it's irritating when people come in for a test spin who have no intent of purchasing... but that's also part of the job as a salesperson. I'm sure there are plenty of rich people who take a test spin from the dealer with little intent to purchase from the dealer as well.

If people want to do a credit check before letting you take a test drive, that's more than I'm willing to allow but I wouldn't hold against them necessarily. OTOH, if you first lie and come up with some lame story about how test drives aren't allowed that's ridiculous.

I'm willing to deal with some degree of inferior treatment. I understand the power of first impressions, and the bottom line sales-driven salary of the workers. So I get that I may have to do a little extra work to get some attention if I'm not in a suit. That's okay, as long as you're willing to at least engage, and after a couple of exchanges you take me seriously.

I'm okay with minor differences in levels of services. Or if you have a sign out front saying "Jacket required" then you've stated it up front. It might be snobby, but it's fair. Nor am I saying to dress like a total slob. But when you make up lies and base your treatment on an ad hoc quick impression of wealth; why should I trust you with an expensive purchase?

The guy who dismisses someone out of hand for non-luxury dress is also likely to smell an easy rich mark if you are dressed expensively. So you'll get attention... only so they can lie and attempt to rip you off with stuff you don't want. Or maybe they'll be attentive until someone comes in with an even more expensive suit and watch and then it's on to the bigger fish.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

Racer said:


> Oh, I don't think so at all. I think it's very educational. I've always believed that respect is something you have to earn, and the way you are treated is usually commensurate with the way you treat others. Apparently I've been wrong about this all my life - it seems that if you wear an expensive watch you automatically get respect, and you are entitled to treat salespeople as serfs. If I'd only known....


Lol please tell me you're joking. I didn't realize asking a clothes salesman if they have shoe trees in stock or asking a car dealer for a test drive classified as "treating them like serfs." Thanks for the info though, if I ever open a retail store I'll be sure to tell my employees to just stand there and not help anyone so as to not be labeled as "serfs."


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## Finian McLonergan (Sep 23, 2009)

jean-paul sartorial said:


> At the same time, when you yell at them for not recognizing your watch, you're perpetuating the problem.


Plus, turning up in casual gear wearing an Audemars is liable to create a disconnect in the mind of the observer. In the absence of a closeup examination by a connoisseur, who's to know it's real? And making a scene about it is likely to heighten suspicions.

It's quite possible that this was what the dealer was thinking and that, for obvious reasons, he chose to keep such thoughts to himself.


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## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

Finian McLonergan said:


> Plus, turning up in casual gear wearing an Audemars is liable to create a disconnect in the mind of the observer. In the absence of a closeup examination by a connoisseur, who's to know it's real? And making a scene about it is likely to heighten suspicions.
> 
> It's quite possible that this was what the dealer was thinking and that, for obvious reasons, he chose to keep such thoughts to himself.


This is likely, all part of the high end car dealer triage I talked about before.


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## dcjacobson (Jun 25, 2007)

> I tend to judge people on teeth and grammer during first impressions.


Grammar. See, I judge people on spelling!

Good luck,
Don


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## dcjacobson (Jun 25, 2007)

I have noticed that I tend to get better service if I am dressed nicer. However, I've never noticed a difference in my own confidence level, attitude, etc.

I also find that the nicer the clothes I'm wearing, the more likely it is I'll spill something on them!

Don


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## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

dcjacobson said:


> I have noticed that I tend to get better service if I am dressed nicer. However, I've never noticed a difference in my own confidence level, attitude, etc.
> 
> I also find that the nicer the clothes I'm wearing, the more likely it is I'll spill something on them!
> 
> Don


Now you have raised the real downside, people tend to treat people poorly with spilled food or drink on them...


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## simonfoy (Mar 18, 2010)

Well quite simply because he never got the chance to look round the Jags, he simply wasn't allowed. He'd just finished work, was clean but not dressed in a suit. Although he did turn up the the dealership in a Range Rover. We have 1 Jag dealership near us. As he got nowhere there he simply went to Merc where they were happy to do business with him. I dare say he would have got a Jag if he'd really wanted one but preferred the Mercs. I too prefer Mercs having driven a XF recently Jags just don't do it for some people. He just wanted to see how the XF drove i think but wasn't given the opportunity. He isn't a spotty teenager he's a middle aged businessman. Jah IMO treated him unfairly and lost out. Which in itself is no big deal either.



henryh said:


> How can one do that? a Merc instead of a Jag? just because of the salesman... Maybe if you are talking one of those new ugly ones, but not an XJ6 or 12. I got an XJ6 for my wife and she loves it for the style.
> 
> I drive a cargo van so that my dogs can ride with me. Obviously I don't wear a suit. I do have a nice jacket that I got in Rome that I wear to restaurants, concerts and such. I wear it with jeans and the shoes I got in Brazil. For me that is dressing up and I feel good wearing it. I don't care what others think about how I look. I'm 66 and bald. Clothes aren't going to do much for me. People do call me "Sir" for some reason.
> 
> I do think it is important at a younger age. People do have a first impression based on looks, it's kind of a game isn't it. To me the suit was always a "Uniform". When I see a "Suit" I think it's some kind of salesman.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Maybe we should all respond to this thread with pictures of what we wore in the day and then judge each other based on what we wore.


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## 46L (Jan 8, 2009)

OP, was the point of the post to tell us you bought an Aston Martin? If so, you could have saved yourself a lot of typing. Congratulations on the the new purchase. It will be a nice companion to your shoes and watch. 

Did you think maybe the girl at BB could have just been a poor SA? I have gotten terrible service wearing my best clothes and being charming as hell. It happens. Of course my shoes were only $300. 

Maybe the watch was too "baller" for the Aston Martin dealer. He was probably looking for the more pedestrian Patek that his customers normally sport.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

I've told this tale before but...

I needed a new green card a year or so back. My previous one had expired sometime during the 1970s, I needed to go abroad and, as anyone who has dealt with the Department of Homeland Security/ICE can attest, the applicant holds zero advantage in such a situation.

After filing the initial paperwork, I was summoned to the federal building for biometrics (fancy name for fingerprints and photograph). I wore a seersucker 3/2 sack suit from O'Connell's, white bucks, sky-blue socks, navy PS and navy-white striped bow tie--the same get-up I wore to my wedding. The folks at the counter were straight-from-central-casting unhelpful bureaucrats. Where's your green card? At home. You were supposed to bring it here! Uh, doesn't this form say any form of government-issued photo ID? Well, the law says you have to have your green card with you at all times, you could be arrested right now!

And so it went. Like lectures from the dentist about not flossing. 

They said I needed to go see a higher-up, given that I did not have my green card in hand, and, lucky for me, they had an appointment available in 45 minutes in another part of the building. OK. So I found the other office and cooled heels while folks all around pleaded their various cases--the woman in front of me wanted to go back to India to visit her terminally ill mother and was told, go ahead, just don't plan on coming back. Then it was my turn.

I explained the situation and the woman behind the counter said "Oh, the supervisor over there is out today--you know how it is, when the cat's away the mice will play." Then she put a "Next Window Please" sign at her work station, came out from behind the counter, walked with me back to the first office and told the folks who had just brushed me off to process my application. Now. Three weeks later, I had my card.

I can't say whether dressing nice worked or not, but I think that it did, and it certainly didn't hurt. I think the first bureaucrats I encountered would have done what they did regardless of how I was dressed. The woman who broke the log jam might not have gone that extra mile, I suspect, if I'd been dressed in shorts and a t-shirt. She certainly did not have to do anything--I had zero leverage here. I didn't see anyone else getting that degree of attention.

It starts, of course, with attitude. If you're a d--k toward people, all the clothes in the world won't help. But when you really, really need every advantage, then dress well.


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## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

Thread has got me thinking... There was another thread a while back about well dressed people being perceived as more attractive. So is this just a case of more attractive people getting better treatment?

Of course for the "high end" car dealership I still think it is about perceived wealth. (I put "high end" in quotes because can we really consider anything made by Ford/Tata as high end... , it would be like buying a $2000 pair of shoes made by Rockport...).


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

nosajwols said:


> I put "high end" in quotes because can we really consider anything made by Ford/Tata as high end


Doesn't Tata own Jaguar?

As for Ford, in 2005 the sticker price of the Ford GT was about $150,000 but dealers were getting over $200,000 for them. One recently sold at auction for over a half million. There is such a thing as a "high end" Ford. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## deandbn (Mar 6, 2006)

dcjacobson said:


> I have noticed that I tend to get better service if I am dressed nicer. However, I've never noticed a difference in my own confidence level, attitude, etc.
> 
> I also find that the nicer the clothes I'm wearing, the more likely it is I'll spill something on them!
> 
> Don


Words. See, I judge people on the words they use!

nicer is not a word

you can be well dressed
or
you can be better dressed
or
you can be the best dressed

:biggrin:

and

the better the clothes I'm wearing


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

deandbn said:


> nicer is not a word


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nicer

Cruiser


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## nosajwols (Jan 27, 2010)

Cruiser said:


> Doesn't Tata own Jaguar?
> 
> As for Ford, in 2005 the sticker price of the Ford GT was about $150,000 but dealers were getting over $200,000 for them. One recently sold at auction for over a half million. There is such a thing as a "high end" Ford. :icon_smile:
> 
> Cruiser


Tata bought AM and Jag from Ford a while back.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Cruiser,
You are writing from a different country from *deandbn*; American English is not South African English. However, in this case, British English agrees with American.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

"nicer" is indeed a word, but it is an adjective, whereas "dressed" is a verb.


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## Felix Krull (Dec 20, 2008)

Well let's look at the logic of this: if you're wearing a suit then odds are you're doing so because you're in business or you're a professional, which in turn likely indicates that you are a man of some means, some of which could in-turn pass to the company or individual serving you if they do a good job, either in the way of your business or at least a tip. On the other hand, the guy in a t-shirt could be Burger King's employee of the month, a street sweeper, a janitor, or employed in any other non-descript minimum wage paying job. Of course, he could also be the CEO of a new start up that just got bought for $20 million. But there's nothing by his dress to tell anyone that. The casual observer has no way of knowing by his appearance what he's about. The guy in the suit, however, is telling you: "I'm important enough that I needed to wear a suit and tie today, take care of me and I'll take care of you."


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## Felix Krull (Dec 20, 2008)

nosajwols said:


> When buying a luxury car there is one thing we have to keep in mind, every joker out there would love to take a new Ferrari or whatever for a test "spin." The dealers must do some quick triage to determine if you are a serious buyer (and have the ability to buy the car) or the above mentioned joker (no way you can afford it). Tons of people walk in those doors doing nothing but waste their time. You can go in wearing jeans and a ripped t-shirt and get good service (because they saw the $100K car you pulled up in). They are (or should be) experts in superficial quick analysis (car, watch, clothes), they have to be--it is a job requirement. They of course are not perfect (I am sure more than a few lottery winners have been rebuffed on day one when they try to buy that big dollar new car).
> 
> Just don't be surprised if you get poor service if you wear your old jeans a timex and pull up in my old Hyundai!
> 
> ...


Well considering that to purchase several Ferrari models new you have to be a documented prior owner of a Ferrari you aren't far from the truth. Very few people, whether they have the money or not, can just show up at a Ferrari dealer and drive the car home that day. Buying a Ferrari is a process, not a transaction.


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

Felix Krull said:


> Well considering that to purchase several Ferrari models new you have to be a documented prior owner of a Ferrari you aren't far from the truth. Very few people, whether they have the money or not, can just show up at a Ferrari dealer and drive the car home that day. Buying a Ferrari is a process, not a transaction.


This is true. I know that to test drive a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Bentley at the dealers around here, you have to produce a pay stub or a bank statement. So it really doesn't matter what you're wearing as long as you can prove you have the dough.


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## dealme (Aug 14, 2010)

good to know if I ever purchase either of those three. My little Corolla will do for now!


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Do people judge others *solely* on the clothes they are wearing? Only very stupid people. I cannot imagine any readily-discernable characteristic or practice that would be a sensbile *sole* basis for judging another human being.*

On the other hand, do people judge others based, in part, on their clothes? Of course. And why wouldn't they? Clothes are not something we are born with. For adults who are not severely disabled, they are something that we choose ourselves every day. What's more, they are readily visible. If you interact with another in person, you can see how they are dressed.

In a perfect world, one would only begin to judge** a person after having amassed data regarding their employment history, their criminal background (if any), their current and past financial situations, whether they have a family, whether they are faithful to their spouse, whether they are kind to children (their own and others), whether they prefer to watch sports, reality TV, sitcoms, or educational programing, whether they take cream in their coffee, and countless other pieces of information. Of course, one can know someone well for a very long time without having all the pieces of information that would useful in making judgments.

In the snap decision making process that we all use _constantly_ to keep ourselves safe, avoid being scammed, minimize the waste of our time, get the services we need, be respected in polite society, etc., we often have to rely on profoundly limited data. For an in-person interaction, clothing will often be one of the first, and most reliable*** pieces of data we have. Frankly, unless there is *zero* correlation between clothing and a relevant characteristic, it would be crazy *not* to use that data to inform our judgment.

* Perhaps, in certain exigent circumstances, within a military organization a rank insignia might be a sufficient criterion. But only during brief periods of confusion/chaos/combat. 

** When I use the word "judge" in this context, I only mean: to evaluate another for purposes of making decisions regarding one's actions with regard to that other person. This could be an evaluation of whether to hire an applicant, whether to say hello or cross the street to avoid a stranger, whether to ask a person in a store where X merchandise is located, etc. It _does_ not mean coming to some comprehensive judgment of a person's worth to society or to the universe or to God's creation (choose your prefered frame of reference). Those type of judgments must be arrived at reluctantly and with great deliberation, if at all.

*** I do not mean "reliable" in the sense of being a trustworthy indicator of some other characteristic, such as wealth or honesty. I simply mean that the data itself is unlikely to be wrong. A person either is or is not wearing a tie, and it's generally not hard to tell which. Compare that against a stranger's statement of their name. I often meet people and tell them my name is Dave. This happens to be true, but I could just as easily tell them my name is Bill. In the context of a non-intermediated introduction, a person's declared name is _not_ terribly reliable.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Felix Krull said:


> The guy in the suit, however, is telling you: "I'm important enough that I needed to wear a suit and tie today, take care of me and I'll take care of you."


If that's what it says to you then I'm certainly not going to say differently; but that isn't what it says to me. As often as not he is not trying to take care of me as much as he's trying to take my money. He is usually trying to sell something, either a product or a service.

The fact is that the simple act of putting on a suit says nothing about the importance of a person, and it especially says nothing of his integrity or his value to society. After all Bernie Madoff and Ken Lay wore really nice suits every day while my friend "Bob" who has devoted more than 60 years of his life to helping the poor and disadvantaged while employed in low paying jobs with organizations like the Boys and Girls Club of America and the Salvation Army doesn't even own a suit as far as I can tell.

Suits are nice and can look really good on a man, but let's not attach a greater importance to this than what is merited.

Cruiser


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## 46L (Jan 8, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> Suits are nice and can look really good on a man, but let's not attach a greater importance to this than what is merited.
> 
> Cruiser


Very well said.


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## CLTesquire (Jul 23, 2010)

people judge others for a variety of reasons (rightly or wrongly) and I'm sure clothing is one of those reasons

I don't judge people based on the way they're dressed but the way they're dressed certainly makes an impression


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