# The Curriculum vs. 100% Authentic Impeccably Ivy League University Approved Style



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Some years ago the poster Harris posted a fictionalized account of two gentleman reminiscing about the days when people of a certain sort took a purist approach toward dressing in the Ivy League style. The set of details followed by the purists was referred to as "The Curriculum". Though, the author was clearly being somewhat whimsical, the post struck a nerve with a lot of people both positive and negative.

Recently, I came across online versions of _The Lafayette_, the newspaper of Lafayette College in eastern Pennsylvania. There were several local haberdasheries that sold to students at that college and advertised in the school paper. During the 1950's, apparently students at Lafayette were big fans of the Ivy League style. At least at that time, Lafayette sports teams regularly battled Ivy schools in sports, so the students no doubt had first hand exposure.

Looking at the ads has convinced me that light hearted in intention as it might have been "The Curriculum" caught dead-on the spirit of "Ivy League" style in its hey-day between 1954-1959. That is, not only are the details right, but the spirit of Ivy style in the 50's was very much details driven, purist in tone and dogmatically so. All of the advertisements seem to focus on re-assuring the potential buyers that all the clothes are impeccably Ivy League, authentically Ivy League and have all the correct details that approved Ivy League clothes have.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)




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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

i like this thread already, im ready for a bit more structure and purity as regards ivy clothing, i admit i need to learn a lot and i hope this thread will help bring more clarity to the ivy


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)




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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Given how typical it is for today's advertising to sell conformity using the rhetoric of individuality, the conscious conformism of the time seems almost charming (though I may not have felt that way if I had actually been there).
There really was both a Hardwick and a Softwick. You couldn't make stuff like that up.
Interesting to note was that the time period in which this was called quote-unquote Ivy League was relatively short. Before the fall of 1953, the style was always referred to as "Natural Shoulder" (as in the 1951 tuxedo ad). After fall of 1959, it was referred to as "Natural Shoulder" as in the early 1960's Hardwick blazer ad or "Traditional Natural Shoulder," In fact, there was an ad from 1959 that mentioned a trend to cease referring to the style as Ivy League.
Though the styling details seem characteristic of the 1930's era Brooks Brothers sack suit, the pre-war flannels and tweeds and blazers were apparently more likely to be anglo in style.
Unfortunately, the Yale Daily News has not digitized its Ivy era archive as of yet (though I did find a 1942 era ad referring to a OCBD as "authentic Ivy League").


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

This is very interesting stuff. Rarely do you see it defined in terms that are so "black and white". The Chief Levin's ad for instance:
NO DARTS!
NO PLEATS!

Thanks for sharing, AP.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Alden,

This is great stuff. Thanks for posting it.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

AP,
thank you for your efforts.
Can you find the sales books from BB from the 1950's?


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

AP - Fantastic work.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

*Back when $2.50/hour was good money...*

Any chance of reviving the pricing?:devil:

hbs


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## wessex (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks Alden, as a Lafayette alum (97) this makes me very proud. It's sad to think what took the place of these fine stores on Northampton and in the cricle (my guess is pawn shops or perhaps a qwiki mart).


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

The flannels have '_no_ fullness in the legs', going for a trim style contra a lot of the bagginess we think about now.

Great job, AP!


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

hbs midwest said:


> Any chance of reviving the pricing?:devil:
> 
> hbs


Based on current macroeconomic trends, I'd say be careful what you wish for.


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

Excellent work Professor. Hope to see more.

Question: Does the term 'wick' mean something unique? I ask because I've now heard of Southwick, Presswick, Hardwick, and Softwick. 

Cheers.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

The advertisements in The New Yorker offered an amazing spectrum of different merchants selling classic men's clothing. It's worth buying the CD or the portable drive with all the back issues, and soon, if not already, it's accessible with an electronic subscription to the magazine.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

xcubbies said:


> The advertisements in The New Yorker offered an amazing spectrum of different merchants selling classic men's clothing. It's worth buying the CD or the portable drive with all the back issues, and soon, if not already, it's accessible with an electronic subscription to the magazine.


Yeah...

The New Yorker ads were my source of information re: traditional clothing beyond Brooks and local trad merchants in the mid-70s, namely, Jos.A Bank, LL Bean, and The Andover Shop, to name a few.

hbs


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

AP, 

Great ads! Thank you for posting them. 

I especially like the copy in one that proudly proclaims "As advertised in PLAYBOY."


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

AlanC said:


> The flannels have '_no_ fullness in the legs', going for a trim style contra a lot of the bagginess we think about now.
> 
> Great job, AP!


I thought this was interesting as well. Also the mention of "less room at knee, narrower cuff" hereinafter known as the "AP".

Though, I still won't give up my M1s!

GREAT post, AP. Thank you.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Thank you Mr. Pyle.

In the original Brit English the w is silent in wick, Keswick is pronounced Kesick or Kezick. Southwick something along the lines of Suthick. While I'm at it, without extra charge, amongst English public school old boys Saint John is pronounced SinJin, go figure. www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question94988.html

The Ivy look was more widespread than the NE and could be found as "collegiate" in campus shoppes as far afield a UCal Berkely just prior to the hippie era, circa 1967. Its fading popularity was directly related to the Vietnam War, believe it or not. It may have had its genesis at the Ivy schools, but it was widely adopted and adapted by collegiate and younger students. Quite frankly, it was most of what was available short of juvenile delinquents' garb, think "Grease". And despite what may be propagandized elsewhere, bebopism was not an integral part of collegiate Ivy. :teacha:


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Reddington said:


> Excellent work Professor. Hope to see more.
> 
> Question: Does the term 'wick' mean something unique? I ask because I've now heard of Southwick, Presswick, Hardwick, and Softwick.
> 
> Cheers.


I swear I'm not making this up. Back in 1967 or 1968 (I had just gotten out of high school) I sent a coupon to Hardwick for a "revealing picture of the Hardwick maiden" as their ads in the Esquire Good Grooming Guides suggested. When it came, she was lovely in Tennessee/Kentucky mall hair heavy lipstick late '60s way and fully if tightly clothed. My sainted mother was disgusted at my having brought such filth into the house. I have to look through my archives to see if I still have it. In any case Hardwick was the real deal back then.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Brooksfan said:


> I swear I'm not making this up. Back in 1967 or 1968 (I had just gotten out of high school) I sent a coupon to Hardwick for a "revealing picture of the Hardwick maiden" as their ads in the Esquire Good Grooming Guides suggested. When it came, she was lovely in Tennessee/Kentucky mall hair heavy lipstick late '60s way and fully if tightly clothed. My sainted mother was disgusted at my having brought such filth into the house. I have to look through my archives to see if I still have it. In any case Hardwick was the real deal back then.


Twixt the boyhood mattress and boxsprings at the ancestral estate?


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

"Pants are pleatless, have back buckle-strap."

Hope they heard that all the way down there at Bills. :icon_smile:


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

This is the first time I have seen 'back buckle strap' mentioned since I have been here. In the mid and late 50's a lot of us attending college wore polished cotton pants with a belt in the back. I never had a suit with that detail, but I did have two or three pair of odd wool trousers so equipped.

A few garments other than trousers had a belt in the back too. I remember someone wearing a cap with a back buckle strap. I know that sounds silly and I thought it looked silly at the time too.

Some garments, such as vests, have been in and out of fashion during the past 50 years and some details, such as the width of a tie, have changed from wide to narrow to wide, but it seems that back buckle straps are gone for good - and good riddance I say.

Here is another one that did not survive. In the 50's almost all OCBDs had a locker loop at the top of the box back pleat. I thought they looked like an afterthought. I forget when they were fazed out. 

Cheers, Jim.


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> Here is another one that did not survive. In the 50's almost all OCBDs had a locker loop at the top of the box back pleat. I thought they looked like an afterthought. I forget when they were fazed out.
> 
> Cheers, Jim.


Perhaps they began to disappear in the late 80's - early 90's? That's only a guess, but I do know that all my OCBDs in the 80's had that loop. I miss it.


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## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

Reddington said:


> Perhaps they began to disappear in the late 80's - early 90's? That's only a guess, but I do know that all my OCBDs in the 80's had that loop. I miss it.


It's funny but the one company that I've seen use the loop in recent years is Tommy Hilfiger. Luckily they have decided not to emblazon their dress shirts with the Tommy logo.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Appreciate the kind words. Must work now, but here is an interesting article from the Harvard Crimson 1963

A Brief Guide to Men's Fashions Unravels The Deep Mysteries of All Those 'Looks'

Published On Friday, October 04, 1963 12:00 AM 
By

_...First of all, the erroneous preconceptions of the Ivy League look must be erased. "Ivy League" refers to a bastardized version of the natural shoulder model, first produced on a mass scale about 1938. Prior to that time, only Brooks Brothers and J. Press promoted the natural shoulder. These stores derived the Ivy look from the five button suits with narrow lapels worn by fashionable late Victorians in the 1890's. Since 1950, the natural shoulder model has changed little with the exception of narrower lapels, shorter coats, and slimmer trousers.

.....

Both styles omit waist suppression, narrowing the middle by darts over the side pockets. Unpleated trousers are an important concomitant of the natural shoulder look.

Worn by about nine out of ten Harvard men, the Ivy look is smart and trim. It is supposed to make a man look masculine without the phoniness of padding. However, these effects are attained only by wearing a natural shoulder model which suits you. The Warwick model is slightly clubbier than the Andover model which hints of Madison Avenue. Both are appropriate for almost every occasion the college man encounters.

For dressier wear, however, some men like a suit along the lines of JFK's semi-lounge model (two buttons, longer lapels, some waist suppression, and a bit more shoulder padding). Either the Warwick or Andover models are far better for the occasional suit buyer with a limited amount of interest, time, and money.

*Hobsack and Tweeds*

A coarse material from England called hopsack will be important again this season. It is woven from a six-ply yarn rather than the two-ply yarn used in most cloth, making a loose but warm weave.

Another popular fabric -- a rich tweed -- comes from the improbably isle of Skye off the Scottish coast. Supposedly this tweed is hand woven on cottage looms, and hence is more "authentic" than the Harris tweed it resembles. Synthetic blends such as sharkskin, and stretch materials have gained popularity because they shed wrinkles and fit smooth.

Colors will be lighter this season. Charcoal is giving way to dark gray, and even light gray. "Bottle green," possibly named after the shade of English beer bottles, promises to be popular for blazers, and there are indications a reddish maroon called cranberry will also find favor. Blue, especially in tweeds, will appear frequently.

Double-breasted blazers, long popular with the international sporting crowd, have not yet made their mark on ivy-laden New England. About 1950 the double breasted suit died, and only a handful of avant-garde types around here have recently picked it up again.

_


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Oh, yeah. Lands End has a locker loop & BB Black Fleece has a really ugly one. I get my shirts made with back buttons, box pleats, and flap pockets, but I never use the loop so I don't get it.


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## wheredidyougetthathat (Mar 26, 2006)

Reddington said:


> Excellent work Professor. Hope to see more.
> 
> Question: Does the term 'wick' mean something unique? I ask because I've now heard of *Southwick, Presswick, Hardwick, and Softwick*.
> 
> Cheers.


Not to mention Hampton Wick ...


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## jrandyv (Apr 3, 2006)

Of all that I've read on trad clothing those Lafayette ads bring it home the best; as they're the real thing. You should forward them to Ethan at O'Connell's to ask his Dad for his reactions/memories.


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

boatshoe said:


> It's funny but the one company that I've seen use the loop in recent years is Tommy Hilfiger. Luckily they have decided not to emblazon their dress shirts with the Tommy logo.


Really? What's the quality like with their logoless shirts?


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

wheredidyougetthathat said:


> Not to mention Hampton Wick ...


.....and Warwick.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> Oh, yeah. Lands End has a locker loop & BB Black Fleece has a really ugly one. I get my shirts made with back buttons, box pleats, and flap pockets, but I never use the loop so I don't get it.


Oh wow, I have not seen back buttons since Hector was a pup. I had forgotten all about them. They are fine as long as one's tie is narrow enough in the part that goes behind one's neck - otherwise, not so good.

I used to have some Oxford shirts with a pocket flap. I think most of them the type of shirt with the placket half way down the front. I am not sure what we call those - 'popovers' perhaps?

I liked those shirts except I used to like to carry a pen in that pocket. I had a lady friend who would cut a slit and hem it rather like a button hole so I could carry my pen. The avialbility of those shirts was sporadic so usually when I found them in stock in some men's store my old ones were pretty worn and I would buy new ones in every color available. I have not seen that type of shirt for a long time now. I think I am too old to wear them anyway.

Some people claim that certain garments make them look old - cardigans for example. That dosn't seem right as I can't find any that will make me look young. :icon_smile:

Cheers, Jim.


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

Reddington said:


> Excellent work Professor. Hope to see more.
> 
> Question: Does the term 'wick' mean something unique? I ask because I've now heard of Southwick, Presswick, Hardwick, and Softwick.
> 
> Cheers.


There's still a company out there called Hardwick. This site sells their stuff:

https://menssuitsjacketsseparatessportscoatsslacks.com

Does anybody know if this maker is related to the Hardwick mentioned in the ads? Is their stuff any good?


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

AP, great scans and I really enjoyed the piece by Susan Rogers. There's been this idea floating around that Ivy was started in the US post WWII. She supports the 1930s time frame and I've always argued it was a look stolen from the Brits and modified by college students with Princeton getting the lion's share of credit. 

The photos of college students we see in the late 50s and early 60s are the very children of the 30s college students. All of this gets passed down of course until this erudite look is considered "selling out" by the drug induced late 60s youth who really only wanted to get laid. Long hair, a joint and a peace symbol replaced the sack suit as a sexy image. What we'll do to get in a woman's pants...


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Brooksfan said:


> ... she was lovely in Tennessee/Kentucky mall hair heavy lipstick late '60s way ...


Could you illustrate? I so rarely go to the mall.

Scott


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

mcarthur said:


> Can you find the sales books from BB from the 1950's?


Garfinckel's was a public company so I'm sure Annual reports would be around somewhere. Nice to have more detailed data though. I did come across an article in "Changing Times" that said 1/6 suits were in the Ivy Style in 1957 and 1958.



xcubbies said:


> The advertisements in The New Yorker offered an amazing spectrum of different merchants selling classic men's clothing. It's worth buying the CD or the portable drive with all the back issues, and soon, if not already, it's accessible with an electronic subscription to the magazine.


Excellent idea.



jamgood said:


> Thank you Mr. Pyle.
> 
> The Ivy look was more widespread than the NE and could be found as "collegiate" in campus shoppes as far afield a UCal Berkely just prior to the hippie era, circa 1967. :teacha:


I wonder if the Cal student newspaper has been digitized.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

I often seem to find the term "TNSIL" being used as shorthand for some more broad-minded alternative to the more narrowly regimented rules-obsessed internet "Trad". In fact, the opposite is the case. "Traditional Natural Shoulder/Ivy League" style as it was called in the 1950-1965 period IS the rules-obsessed historical core at the heart of Trad. It should go without saying that TNSIL style neither is nor was some secret handshake of a hidden American aristocracy, but a pretty broad based fashion that drew on a set of pre-war sources. It should also go without saying that blindly following those rules in 2008 would be pretty ridiculous, but taking a well-informed inspiration from that world could be pretty cool.



tintin said:


> There's been this idea floating around that Ivy was started in the US post WWII. She supports the 1930s time frame and I've always argued it was a look stolen from the Brits and modified by college students with Princeton getting the lion's share of credit.


There's a lot of truth to this but I think I would put it a bit differently.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

paper clip said:


> Though, I still won't give up my M1s!


Nor I mine. This is an interesting story though. I gather that M1's are a reasonable approximation of WWII Khakis which are, at least according to Bruce Boyer, the source for chinos as a post war campus uniform. However, by 1954 slim tapered khakis were the thing. I'd be interested in finding out exactly what caused the change.


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## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

OK, I don't want to start controversy on a board I don't participate in regularly, but for a man needing to dress professionally in the 1950s and 1960s, was there really a viable alternative to Ivy style?

I mean, some of us would almost seem to believe that men in that era had to search out these clothes and make an effort to look Ivy (hence, the notion of a "curriculum") but in all honesty, I would have thought that a trip to Brooks Brothers or any small town haberdashery in those days would have yielded very little variance in terms of style.


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

gnatty8 said:


> OK, I don't want to start controversy on a board I don't participate in regularly, but for a man needing to dress professionally in the 1950s and 1960s, was there really a viable alternative to Ivy style?
> 
> I mean, some of us would almost seem to believe that men in that era had to search out these clothes and make an effort to look Ivy (hence, the notion of a "curriculum") but in all honesty, I would have thought that a trip to Brooks Brothers or any small town haberdashery in those days would have yielded very little variance in terms of style.


This is a point I've made a number of times. By the end of WW II, the economies of Europe were in tatters. In fact, the rise of Italian tailoring had to do with the struggles that Savile Row was having. As someone who was a child during the late 50s and early 60s, a child who had to be well-dressed on more than one occasion, I am here to tell you that choices were incredibly limited. My blue blazers were not sacks, since they weren't 3 button--that was for grown-ups; Boys blazers, I believe, were often made by Botany. Men also had less choices, unless they wore bespoke or traveled frequently to Italy. JFK was the best-dressed President of the era, and I recall more than one conversation adults around me had regarding 2 button versus 3 button suit coats. That was, at the moment, about as radical as one got. Later on, the big news was, according to my father (circa 1968), that when we went to NYC for dinner, there were some places that no longer required a tie: I could wear a turtleneck, and I immediately asked my mother to buy me a bunch.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

gnatty8 said:


> OK, I don't want to start controversy on a board I don't participate in regularly, but for a man needing to dress professionally in the 1950s and 1960s, was there really a viable alternative to Ivy style?
> 
> I mean, some of us would almost seem to believe that men in that era had to search out these clothes and make an effort to look Ivy (hence, the notion of a "curriculum") but in all honesty, I would have thought that a trip to Brooks Brothers or any small town haberdashery in those days would have yielded very little variance in terms of style.


I wasn't around then, but I think that's not right. I mentioned above I came across an article in a business magazine, "Changing Times," saying that in 1957 and 1958 only 1 out of 6 suits sold was in the Ivy style. Probably heavily skewed toward young people rather than small town professionals and businessmen.


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

I agree with one out of six. There was always the American look worn so well by Kevin Spacy in LA Confidential. A look I find cheesey and low brow but it sure had it's fans.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

tintin said:


> What we'll do to get in a woman's pants...


It's easy. Just buy pants without back pockets!


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> I wasn't around then, but I think that's not right. I mentioned above I came across an article in a business magazine, "Changing Times," saying that in 1957 and 1958 only 1 out of 6 suits sold was in the Ivy style. Probably heavily skewed toward young people rather than small town professionals and businessmen.


I was around - and what you say sounds reasonable to me as I remember things.


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

tintin said:


> I agree with one out of six. There was always the American look worn so well by Kevin Spacy in LA Confidential. A look I find cheesey and low brow but it sure had it's fans.


_LA Confidential_ was set in 1954, which was really just before the whole TNSIL craze took hold- a lot of people were still wearing really loud, wide ties and pleated pants that came up to mid chest. Plus, I would think that his look in that film is more representative of West Coast/ Hollywood style than mid-America. I don't think most corporate executives or law firm partners dressed like Kevin Spacey in _LA Confidential_, even in LA. A few politicians, maybe.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> I wasn't around then, but I think that's not right. I mentioned above I came across an article in a business magazine, "Changing Times," saying that in 1957 and 1958 only 1 out of 6 suits sold was in the Ivy style. Probably heavily skewed toward young people rather than small town professionals and businessmen.


I think there is a Boyer article which discusses this issue and supports this point. I believe he mentions other options available at that time other than the Ivy style.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

Zot! said:


> _LA Confidential_ was set in 1954, which was really just before the whole TNSIL craze took hold- a lot of people were still wearing really loud, wide ties and pleated pants that came up to mid chest. Plus, I would think that his look in that film is more representative of West Coast/ Hollywood style than mid-America. I don't think most corporate executives or law firm partners dressed like Kevin Spacey in _LA Confidential_, even in LA. A few politicians, maybe.


One of my favorite movies. I'll have to go back and re-watch, but I bet that straight-laced, glasses wearing Edmund Exley (Guy Pearce's character) is a likely ivy candidate.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> Nor I mine. This is an interesting story though. I gather that M1's are a reasonable approximation of WWII Khakis which are, at least according to Bruce Boyer, the source for chinos as a post war campus uniform. However, by 1954 slim tapered khakis were the thing. I'd be interested in finding out exactly what caused the change.


My GUESS is that it was a more "youthful" take on chinos.....

By-the-way, AP, this is a fantastic thread. Great work by all, but you in particular in posting the ads and that Crimson article.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> I used to have some Oxford shirts with a pocket flap. I think most of them the type of shirt with the placket half way down the front. I am not sure what we call those - 'popovers' perhaps?
> 
> Cheers, Jim.


Here is an authentically Ivy League styled Macy's "pullover" from the 1942 Yale Daily News


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Aww, Pullover - thanks and thanks for the scan. All of the ones that I had were short sleeved and sized s/m/l, so worn as a sport shirt. I think I was able to find them during the 50's up through the 70's and maybe the 80's, but availability was off and on. 

I think the last ones I saw were made by Reyn Spooner and instead of plain colored Oxford cloth they were some print made so the printed side was inside.


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## Jackdaws (May 28, 2008)

*Great post.*

Very interesting. The early 1960's are returning as slim and thin are more stylish now.


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

Jackdaws said:


> Very interesting. The early 1960's are returning as slim and thin are more stylish now.


Agreed. Only difference is there was more of a convergence between the Ivy League look and "slim and thin" than and now. When I think early 60's I think narrow lapels and ties- a very clean, modern-leaning look. Colors: lots of basic grays and dark navys. Starched white dress shirts always. A lot of the things people seem to get enthused about on this forum now are more casual, almost rumpled items with lots of color and patterns.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Jackdaws said:


> Very interesting. The early 1960's are returning as slim and thin are more stylish now.


This is my favorite example of the style, featuring Edd "Kookie" Byrnes. I think you are talking about. Great collar roll too, not like those lucite Don Draper collars on Mad Men.


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## Arnold Gingrich fan (Aug 8, 2008)

Yes, they haven't nailed the lapel roll in "Mad Men." Not sure why. And the younger ad guys wouldn't have used so much Brylcreem in '62. Kennedy was already ushering in the so-called dry look.

.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Here's a reference to the "Ivy League Model" in a J. Press ad from February 1947.








and from March 1948 to see what it looked like.


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