# Best place to buy loose diamonds?



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Does anyone have any insight into a good place to buy a loose diamond? It's a long story...

I've been checking out Blue Nile and some other sites and can't really tell what constitutes a good value.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

From someone on 47th Street, if you can rustle up a connection through a friend (of a friend, of a friend ...).


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## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

You might not realize that Blue Nile operates as a middleman/broker. Only a small percentage (less than 10% I believe) are sold by them directly and are distinguished by some quality marker. The rest are being sold by other sellers, which is why the grading documents are not standard (some you see are incomplete or even bad copies).

I would caution you about buying a diamond on line. If you are buying a bog standard brilliant cut round stone, there are websites that allow you to plug in the characteristics to allow you to estimate the quality of the "make", or cut. And if you are more interested in getting a deal, the subtle differences may not matter to you. But the price of a diamond to a sophisticated buyer varies a lot by the quality of the cut. And yes, you can see it easily with the naked eye. Better cut diamonds, which may have the same clarity and color and which may vary almost nothing in the angles of the crown etc, will be more brilliant, lively and pleasing to the eye.

For that reason, I would advise never to buy a diamond sight unseen on-line unless you have no access to a good wholesale jewellry district. Conversely, never buy from a big box jewellry store or someplace you don't trust, because it is not unknown for people to misrepresent their stones and even have wrong/false certs. This I have also seen with my own eyes, from my parents' favorite jeweller.

Wherever you buy from, you should have a return privilege and take the stone immediately to a outside gemologist. They work in every jewellry district and for a small fee ($100-250 in my area) they will check your stone, give an independent appraisal, confirm the ratings on the certification and tell you what they think of the make as well as the quality of the setting. Would you buy a used car for this amount of money without taking it to a mechanic to check? It's money extremely well spent.

For my brother and I, who got engaged at the same time, the gemologist was able to tell me that my stone was actually better than we expected (better cut, borderline better color) but my brother's was much worse than represented. I kept my stone, my brother returned his and went straight to Cartier. The jeweller that took my brother's ring back resold it again to some unsuspecting soul without changing their representations (yes, an on-line source). Someone somewhere got ripped on on that ring.

A last caveat: the best stones are often held back by dealers for special customers/settings or to go to high-end retailers like Cartier. Many of the stones sold on-line are ones that look great on paper but are dogs in person. That's why they are selling for cheap compared to how they spec out. Caveat emptor.

If, like my brother, you recognize that you are not an expert and have no insider to help you with the process, maybe you don't want to play the odds that you can beat the system and just buy retail from a reputable seller. I would still get a independent appraisal whatever you choose to do.

p.s. all certifications are not the same. GIA is the industry standard and more expensive. EGL is not disreputable it's just looser--people say 1, sometimes even 2 color grades down. Sometimes 1 clarity grade down (though some claime that EGL can sometimes be tougher than GIA). I would be very wary of a diamond that has one of the other certifications. Dealers go to EGL generally with a borderline or poorer quality diamond, or to save money. They go to other certs for other reasons.


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## Lucky Strike (Feb 23, 2006)

I'll rehash some previous posts of mine - there are also several good threads about buying engagement rings/diamonds. 

Disclaimer: I'm no great expert, but I work with several valuers/gemmologists daily. Few things depreciate as badly in value as jewellery. "Investment-grade" jewellery is generally...not. DeBeers are continually fighting the growing industry in synthetic diamonds, but it's probably only a question of a very short time before the synthetics are completely indistinguishable from natural ones, and the whole huge bubble bursts anyway.

Another aspect: The whole "blood diamond" thing is no myth. At its roots, this is a ****** industry, and DeBeers is the worst and by far the biggest turd in the pile. If you want to feel good about the purchase, regarding those aspects, buy something that's demonstrably vintage, or get stones that have those new "ethical" certificates. 

If I insisted on buying a natural one, I would do this: 

- Get some rough technical knowledge and impartial advice, particularly when you've picked a few candidates. Neat trick: Make a deposit and take the candidate to an auction house or a dealer in antique jewellery - they normally do free valuations, and they won't mind taking a quick look at it at all. It's part of their business plan to provide free unwritten valuations. This would also render a gemmologist's certificate unnecessary - you can always get a new valuation with a certificate later. Or just go to an independent gemmologist with your candidate for purchase, and pay his fee.

- Buy from a reputable auction house or a specialist dealer. Avoid any volume marketers like bluenile etc. A trip to the New York, Amsterdam or Antwerp diamond districts is very educational, and might offer a good deal. 

- Buy vintage, and if you plan to buy for the stones, seek out formerly really expensive jewellery in as bad/un-commercial a taste as possible, and then chuck the brooch/stick-pin/pendant/ring setting. Or buy a good, old ring as it is. Have the ring restored and the stone re-set at a good working jeweller's, if necessary. Again, avoid big names, but fish around a bit for who does the actual work for them. These very often do not have store-front shops, just hidden-away messy workshops. This is how you get what you can claim to be a "bespoke" or "custom" setting. (Or just get the standard solitaire settings, they come pre-made for various sizes of brilliant-cut.) The idea that it's bad luck to buy an old/second-hand/used engagement ring is another part of the deBeers mythology. Don't listen to it - fantastic pieces of antique jewellery have been destroyed because of this. Apart from that, an old piece will very often have a better setting and general goldsmith's work. No point in destroying it, if not absolutely necessary, for reasons of taste or other. 

The tradition in much of Europe, thankfully, is for just plain gold bands for engagement rings, like wedding bands. You just move it from one hand to the other at the time of marriage, or get a similar wedding band.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

Find a custom jeweler. There should be plenty in DC. They buy pieces from ladies looking to trade up. My wife's diamond came from some rich lady's earrings. My jeweler charged me cost for the bands and settings.

It was the no hassle way to go.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

PM sent tocque.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

I think it depends on what you're looking for. Are you looking for the best value, the highest grade...

Are you well educated on what you are looking for or are you looking for advice on what to look for in a diamond (i.e., how to shop for a diamond)? 

I can offer some thoughts if you are looking into a diamond for an engagement ring. I went through the process a few years ago...


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

I read a book on diamonds covering optics and grading, then went to Union Diamond, looked at quite a few GIA certificates and bought one. My theory was that occlusions not visible without a loop don't matter so far as appearance goes, color not readily visible to naked eye doesn't matter so far as appearance goes, and a cut that reflects something like 93%-95% of light is close enough to perfect. With these criteria quite a good size stone can be had for not that much. I was quite satisfied, more importantly Mrs. K is very happy with it.


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## Landshark (Jun 17, 2011)

I used James Allen but I'm sure they're selling the same NYC diamonds that Blue Nile is. Keep in mind these places often have zero sales tax and excellent return policies. 

Once I determined the color and inclusions I was tolerant to it was easy to find the right diamond, and a retail store couldn't touch the price on it. 

Be sure to run it dimensions through the Holloway cut advisor online for an important pass fail test before buying, and it doesn't hurt to read up on the ideal scope images. James Allen provided all of them before purchase, and the now Mrs is very happy with her stone.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Landshark said:


> I used James Allen but I'm sure they're selling the same NYC diamonds that Blue Nile is. Keep in mind these places often have zero sales tax and excellent return policies.
> 
> Once I determined the color and inclusions I was tolerant to it was easy to find the right diamond, and a retail store couldn't touch the price on it.
> 
> Be sure to run it dimensions through the Holloway cut advisor online for an important pass fail test before buying, and it doesn't hurt to read up on the ideal scope images. James Allen provided all of them before purchase, and the now Mrs is very happy with her stone.


While Tocque and I conversed privately, I'd like to add a BIG +1 for James Allen. Pricescope.com is also a great source of info.


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