# Would Lands' End survive a potential Sears bankruptcy?



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Since Christmas, Sears Holdings has announced the closing of up to 120 stores, including K-Mart. If this snowballs into more, what's the likely outcome for Lands' End? Spinning off that division back to a catalogue business? Liquidating it and selling the name? I doubt a Sears bankruptcy would be the death knell for LE, but I wonder what exactly would survive.


----------



## DFPyne (Mar 2, 2010)

Just a little more then a year ago there was news that Sears was looking into purchasing J. Crew. Funny we are now talking about Sears looking to unload Lands' End. Yet I think this is a very realistic scenario that very well may be playing out in the board rooms of Sears, Roebuck and Co. I could see Sears even spinning of Lands' End to prevent bankruptcy.

J. Crew was eventually bought by two large private equity firms. If Sears were to want to sell off Lands' End I could the same firms at least look at Lands' End and analyze if two stores could complement each other.

Personally I have always thought L.L. Bean was the closest thing to Lands' End, at least Lands' End wants to be L.L. Bean even in all actuality they fall short. There would be some value for Bean being able to use some of Lands' End better known trademarks, such as Rigger, Squall, Cotton Drifter and Hyde Park - but it would be an awful lot of money and trouble to buy slightly more recognizable brands to sell items they already offer (luggage, jackets, sweaters and oxfords). Also I'm sure if Bean wanted Lands' End they would have bought it when it was for sale the first time in 2002.


----------



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Can't envision Bean buying LE. There'd be no point in buying brands to compete against itself. This one has a PE purchase written all over it, if, indeed it is sold at all.



DFPyne said:


> Just a little more then a year ago there was news that Sears was looking into purchasing J. Crew. Funny we are now talking about Sears looking to unload Lands' End. Yet I think this is a very realistic scenario that very well may be playing out in the board rooms of Sears, Roebuck and Co. I could see Sears even spinning of Lands' End to prevent bankruptcy.
> 
> J. Crew was eventually bought by two large private equity firms. If Sears were to want to sell off Lands' End I could the same firms at least look at Lands' End and analyze if two stores could complement each other.
> 
> Personally I have always thought L.L. Bean was the closest thing to Lands' End, at least Lands' End wants to be L.L. Bean even in all actuality they fall short. There would be some value for Bean being able to use some of Lands' End better known trademarks, such as Rigger, Squall, Cotton Drifter and Hyde Park - but it would be an awful lot of money and trouble to buy slightly more recognizable brands to sell items they already offer (luggage, jackets, sweaters and oxfords). Also I'm sure if Bean wanted Lands' End they would have bought it when it was for sale the first time in 2002.


----------



## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

32rollandrock said:


> Can't envision Bean buying LE. There'd be no point in buying brands to compete against itself. This one has a PE purchase written all over it, if, indeed it is sold at all.


Agreed. The only strategic advantage for Bean to buy LE is to bury it and eliminate a competitor. But I doubt LE would sell so cheaply that it would be worthwhile to do it. LE would have to be priced at a fire-sale price, and I would imagine Sears could do better than that with PE.


----------



## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

I don't see how Sears can continue. The stores are some of the worst in the business, as corporate isn't putting money into renovations and hasn't for years. The dry goods are low-end. The only value at Sears are hardware, appliances and electronics. My dad talks about a time when Sears sold decent suits and offered free alterations for life.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't see Sears continuing to offer the volume of clothing that they do. I suspect they make more money out of the appliance/hardware/garden machinery where the markup is higher. Go belly-up? Doubtful. Sell LE off to a PE? Good choice, given the amount of cash it would generate. Turn their entire clothing section over to LE and continue the rest of Sears as itself? Possible, just possible.


----------



## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

My dad spent his entire career as a Sears executive -- it once was a great Chicago company (though never "high-end", it once was a nice department store.). It's amazing how Sears has lost its way over the years. 

I personally love being able to shop for Lands' End in a Sears store, but I do not think that it's a strategy that will work in the long run. I was amazed at the quantity of LE merchadise in my local Sears store over the holidays - they had a lot of nice stuff. But, I observed two things: 1) given the steep discounts (e.g., 60% off all men's outerwear), I am not sure how Sears can make a profit on the LE merchandise; and 2) I can't help but notice that the typical Sears shopper (even in an upscale suburban area) is not someone who ordinarily would shop for (or be interested in) LE stuff. Based on that - and given Sears' financial problems - I think that Sears ultimately will try to sell off LE to the highest bidder, or, at a minimum, end up removing much of the LE merchandise from Sears stores.


----------



## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Ron_A said:


> I personally love being able to shop for Lands' End in a Sears store, but I do not think that it's a strategy that will work in the long run...I can't help but notice that the typical Sears shopper (even in an upscale suburban area) is not someone who ordinarily would shop for (or be interested in) LE stuff. Based on that - and given Sears' financial problems - I think that Sears ultimately will try to sell off LE to the highest bidder, or, at a minimum, end up removing much of the LE merchandise from Sears stores.


Agree completely, Ron A. I thought this for years - in fact, I'm surprised that this forced "marriage" has lasted as long as it has. Would love to see LE escape...


----------



## 12345Michael54321 (Mar 6, 2008)

Ron_A said:


> I personally love being able to shop for Lands' End in a Sears store


I love being able to return Lands' End items to a Sears store.

I buy nearly all my Lands' End stuff online, as online offers a far larger selection than does any b&m Sears store. If I'm not sure which of two different sizes or fits or colors would be the better for me, I buy both choices, and return the less well liked one to the local Sears. (I drive within a few hundred feet of the Sears in Hunt Valley Towne Centre, pretty much every day. And my regular supermarket is the Wegman's right next door to Sears.)

I've never had any problem returning a Lands' End item at Sears. It's always been quick and problem-free. Far preferable to returning things through the mail.

This may be the only significant change brought about by LE's purchase by Sears that I wholeheartedly like.

As something of an aside, while I certainly wouldn't bet big money on Sears turning into a 21st century success story, neither should one read too much into the recent decision to close perhaps 120 of the worst producing Sears locations. That number amounts to only around 5% of their total number of stores, after all. It's when a company announces that it's closing 1/3 or more of its retail locations that I begin to think the company's soon to disappear.

However, if Sears were to go under - and that's certainly a possibility, given that the company hasn't seen a profit in about a decade, and devotes little to fundamental modernization of its aging stores - I'm pretty confident Lands' End would survive, albeit under new ownership. It's one of Sears' more attractive assets, after all. Depending on who the new owner might be, LE could plausibly return to being an almost purely online and mail order operation (with perhaps a small number of essentially token physical locations).

The nightmare scenario for a Lands' End lover would probably be purchase by Walmart. On the other hand, purchase by Nordstrom might not be all that bad a thing. 
-- 
Michael


----------



## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

12345Michael54321 said:


> As something of an aside, while I certainly wouldn't bet big money on Sears turning into a 21st century success story, neither should one read too much into the recent decision to close perhaps 120 of the worst producing Sears locations. That number amounts to only around 5% of their total number of stores, after all. It's when a company announces that it's closing 1/3 or more of its retail locations that I begin to think the company's soon to disappear.


I agree 100%. Also, it should be noted that the articles I saw stated they would close 100-120 Sears *and K-Mart* stores. I see this more as being a case where local markets can only support one or the other store, not both.


----------



## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

The thing that never fails to amaze me in a Sears store is just how much space is given to clothing, how much they have piled everywhere, the very wide ranges and ultimately, how much of it is only sold on discount. With those kind of return on inventory performances, I can see why the LE quality has been progressively lessened.

To be honest, I just don't see how LE fits the Sears customer profile at all, nor it's corporate profile. Their once reasonable positioning within half decent clothing is a distant memory for the older population and not even knowable, nor relevant, for anyone younger. In fact, I think LE would be a very nice fit for Target if Sears ever wanted to sell.


----------



## brantley11 (Mar 31, 2009)

Land's End, really?

If Sears were to declare bankruptcy, the bigger possible tragedy would be it's effect on the lifetime craftsman guarantee.


----------



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

I wouldn't be too worried. Craftsman tools really do last forever.



brantley11 said:


> Land's End, really?
> 
> If Sears were to declare bankruptcy, the bigger possible tragedy would be it's effect on the lifetime craftsman guarantee.


----------



## brantley11 (Mar 31, 2009)

^ It was more of a tongue in cheek statement, but if you use them a lot you will have a failure or two.

I work on my hunting truck, wife's volvo and my four wheelers so I have broken one or two-especially when using the impact wrench.


----------



## upthewazzu (Nov 3, 2011)

roman totale XVII said:


> To be honest, I just don't see how LE fits the Sears customer profile at all, nor it's corporate profile. Their once reasonable positioning within half decent clothing is a distant memory for the older population and not even knowable, nor relevant, for anyone younger. In fact, I think LE would be a very nice fit for Target if Sears ever wanted to sell.


Their corporate profile is nothing more than a real-estate racket. They care nothing about retail. Sears Holdings was purchased in 2004 or 2005 with the intention of flipping the land that the buildings sat on for a huge profit. Enter 2006 and the real estate market started slowly subsiding and hit full-on landslide mode in 2007. Now, the real estate is worth pennies compared to what it was and the Holding Company can't unload anything.


----------



## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Ron_A said:


> My dad spent his entire career as a Sears executive -- it once was a great Chicago company (though never "high-end", it once was a nice department store.). It's amazing how Sears has lost its way over the years.
> 
> I personally love being able to shop for Lands' End in a Sears store, but I do not think that it's a strategy that will work in the long run. I was amazed at the quantity of LE merchadise in my local Sears store over the holidays - they had a lot of nice stuff. But, I observed two things: 1) given the steep discounts (e.g., 60% off all men's outerwear), I am not sure how Sears can make a profit on the LE merchandise; and 2) I can't help but notice that the typical Sears shopper (even in an upscale suburban area) is not someone who ordinarily would shop for (or be interested in) LE stuff. Based on that - and given Sears' financial problems - I think that Sears ultimately will try to sell off LE to the highest bidder, or, at a minimum, end up removing much of the LE merchandise from Sears stores.


The problem is most Sears don't carry Lands' End. Only Sears stores in the well-to-do areas have it. I can think of at least five or six that don't have it here. And when they do carry it, the selection, at least with Michigan stores, is limited to the essentials for men. The women's section of Lands' End is always much bigger; go figure. I agree with you that at present many, if not a plurality, of Sears customers are not Lands' End customers for socio-economic factors, among other things.

I have always thoughts Sears could do away with most of its in-house offerings and expand Lands' End and it'd do well. You can't find a decent dress shirt or suit at Sears; they're all polyester crap. At least Kohls or J.C. Penney has some passable stuff. Take Lands' End Canvas, I don't know why Sears doesn't carry it. It's a perfect opportunity to bring in the young folks and get them hooked.

The other problem with Lands' End at Sears is price. Often, the store is cheaper -- sometimes considerably -- than what the catalogue or website states as the price. And other times, it's considerably more expensive. I have had Sears salesmen tell me not to buy it from them and instead to use the computer terminal and order it because it's cheaper. That's not exactly a smart business model.


----------



## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

roman totale XVII said:


> To be honest, I just don't see how LE fits the Sears customer profile at all, nor it's corporate profile. Their once reasonable positioning within half decent clothing is a distant memory for the older population and not even knowable, nor relevant, for anyone younger. In fact, I think LE would be a very nice fit for Target if Sears ever wanted to sell.


Target, Macy's, Bon-Ton, or J.C. Penney.


----------



## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

Sears should open a handful of stores, calling them Sears and Roebuck or something similar. Make them smaller, and limit the items to Craftsman, Die Hard, and Lands End, along with some equivalent or higher quality merchandise. Locate them in downtowns of small and medium sized towns. Use a combination of nostalgia, midwestern value, and modern information systems that would also allow a customer to order anything in the Sears world from the store. This seems like a no-brainer to me.


----------



## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I'll start by saying I have no idea how Sears is structured and what might be best for them, but it did seem to me that they could carve out a unique niche in the anchor store format by limiting their selection to a core of well regarded mid-market brands like Land's End for clothing, Craftsman & Die-Hard, Kenmore, etc. I wonder, as I walk through Sears, why they have Land's End alongside fabricated cash-grab "brands" when they could do away with the rest of it, close the lion's share of their stores, and focus on the aspirational mid-market client. From the sounds of it their real-estate entanglements alone might preclude this type of strategy. 

Side Note - There was nearly a decade of my life where I explicitly aspired to be the CEO of Sears. I was in high school when I first got the idea in my head. Knowing nothing about business in general, let alone their business, I had (and still do) an intuitive feeling that they're an undervalued brand just waiting for a phenomenal turn-around. I even had the idea to capitalize on the housing boom (such as it was) and the trends in green energy and start selling a modern version of Craftsman Houses again complete with LEED certification and smart-home features. 

Maybe I'll write and see if there's a position opening up.


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

roman totale XVII said:


> The thing that never fails to amaze me in a Sears store is just how much space is given to clothing, how much they have piled everywhere, the very wide ranges and ultimately, how much of it is only sold on discount. With those kind of return on inventory performances, I can see why the LE quality has been progressively lessened.


Many years ago in my youth, my parents would get me and my siblings LE rugby shirts for Christmas. Some of those shirts lasted more than a decade of VERY frequent wear. As I was wearing out my last one, I decided to stop in Old Navy and purchase an ON rugby shirt. I knew ON clothes were considered disposable, and would be lucky to last a year or two, but decided to get one of the rugbies since I needed a new one. Sure enough, the material was rather flimsy, the sleeves were too short, and it seemed be a generally low-cost piece of merchandise. I figured what the heck, I may as well order a new rugby online from LE (this was several years ago before I seem to recall LE having the large presence it currently does in Sears stores). The LE rugby was considerably more than the ON rugby, and even 20-30 years ago a LE rugby was a higher-priced shirt (probably $40 in 1980). When the LE shirt arrived do you know what I found? A lightweight piece of junk made in Sri Lanka of similar quality to the ON rugby I had purchased for around $18. I promptly sent LE a letter explaining my dissatisfaction with the reduced quality of their rugby shirts and said I would never purchase another one. That was probably ten years ago and I have not purchased any LE merchandise since that time. I see no reason to pay for the LE name and get ON quality. And for the record, the only things I purchase from ON are clothes for my kids, and they outgrow them in a year (about the time the clothes are worn out).

Andy B.


----------



## THORVALD (Jan 30, 2007)

*SEARS may go BYE*

Think LE made a bad move out of catalog sales only to Sears.


----------



## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

I grew up with Sears as my dad worked for them for a good 30 years or so and I've always found the place maddening---as many of you here attest to. The fantastic hardware coupled with pure garbage clothes has driven me nuts forever. I like the idea of paring things down and concentrating on strengths. I remember every year getting the big Sears Christmas catalogue. The days of being able to support such a product line are obviously long gone. I hope they don't disappear, purely for nostalgia's sake, but I can't see spending much money there in their current iteration. Having some high end and some low end merch doesn't seem smart as it seems to turn off more folks than it attracts--at least in my experience.


----------



## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

I sure hope not


----------



## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Larsd4 said:


> Sears should open a handful of stores, calling them Sears and Roebuck or something similar. Make them smaller, and limit the items to Craftsman, Die Hard, and Lands End, along with some equivalent or higher quality merchandise. Locate them in downtowns of small and medium sized towns. Use a combination of nostalgia, midwestern value, and modern information systems that would also allow a customer to order anything in the Sears world from the store. This seems like a no-brainer to me.


At least here in Michigan, there are small Sears franchise stores scattered across the state in small and mid-size towns. These stores basically only sell appliances, hardware and electronics.

J.C. Penney has a bunch of, what I would call for lack of a better word, legacy stores in similar sized communities. Many of them aren't in malls. They are very small and carry only the basics. Even the stores located in more well-to-do areas aren't given the nicer J.C. Penney offerings. I don't know their profit margin, but I suspect they don't do as well because a lot of prospective customers can get in a car and be at a shopping mall with a mainline J.C. Penney generally within an hour or so.


----------



## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

andy b. said:


> Many years ago in my youth, my parents would get me and my siblings LE rugby shirts for Christmas. Some of those shirts lasted more than a decade of VERY frequent wear. As I was wearing out my last one, I decided to stop in Old Navy and purchase an ON rugby shirt. I knew ON clothes were considered disposable, and would be lucky to last a year or two, but decided to get one of the rugbies since I needed a new one. Sure enough, the material was rather flimsy, the sleeves were too short, and it seemed be a generally low-cost piece of merchandise. I figured what the heck, I may as well order a new rugby online from LE (this was several years ago before I seem to recall LE having the large presence it currently does in Sears stores). The LE rugby was considerably more than the ON rugby, and even 20-30 years ago a LE rugby was a higher-priced shirt (probably $40 in 1980). When the LE shirt arrived do you know what I found? A lightweight piece of junk made in Sri Lanka of similar quality to the ON rugby I had purchased for around $18. I promptly sent LE a letter explaining my dissatisfaction with the reduced quality of their rugby shirts and said I would never purchase another one. That was probably ten years ago and I have not purchased any LE merchandise since that time. I see no reason to pay for the LE name and get ON quality. And for the record, the only things I purchase from ON are clothes for my kids, and they outgrow them in a year (about the time the clothes are worn out).
> 
> Andy B.


This sort of discussion comes up fairly regularly on here; a simple search would discover several discussion threads of this nature. Notwithstanding, I tend to concur with you. While Lands' End does still have some nice offerings, for the most part, it's overpriced -- unless bought on sale, and Lands' End sales are almost as perpetual as Jos. A. Bank -- and sometimes of poor quality.

Often times it's little things such as loose stitching on trousers or low-quality cloth. I'm just old enough to have a vague memory of the old Lands' End. Sadly, I think those days are long gone.

However, unlike others on here, I don't necessarily blame Sears for the decline of Lands' End, but rather I believe it rests in the reality of today's marketplace. Most consumers have little understanding of value for money. Combined with inflation, expensive domestic production and the overall trend of importing mass-market clothing, it's actually a surprise that things haven't gotten worse at Lands' End. Thankfully, they still have a wonderful return policy -- something I use a fair bit. I return far more than what I keep these days.

On a side note, I am really impressed with what I have been seeing from Black & Brown 1826, the in-house menswear brand at Lord & Taylor here in the United States and The Bay in Canada. It's affordable, well designed and the quality isn't bad.

As an example, I recently examined a pair of driving penny loafers from Black & Brown. They are almost identical to what Lands' End has sold for years, except they are made in Brazil. Brazil used to be where Lands' End sourced much of its shoes, in particular the driving loafers. Costs must have risen though because now it's China, and the quality isn't as nice.


----------



## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

CMDC said:


> I remember every year getting the big Sears Christmas catalogue. The days of being able to support such a product line are obviously long gone.


I disagree. As an example, look at Amazon.


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Amazon doesn't support all of that. They are just an online storefront for a whole range of retailers/manufacturers. Many times if you order from Amazon the items are drop-shipped from the actual retailer, and don't even come in an Amazon box. Sears has those hundreds of real stores they need to support with thousands of employees and millions in electric and property rental fees. Granted, Sears did use to just rebadge certain items with the Sears name (many Sears power tools were just models manufactured by other big companies with the Sears name stuck on them, same with appliances), but Sears did in fact manufacture many of the items they sold. I don't think Amazon manufactures anything.

Andy B.


----------



## boatswaindog (Nov 18, 2010)

There is substantial value in Sears. It's brands like Kenmore and Craftsman and Lands End are worth substantial dollars. The real estate is worth a lot of money. Sears has been badly managed. I have no idea what Eddie Lampert is doing. And he certainly never tells anyone. Apparently he doesn't mind filing for bankruptcy. But since he is the major shareholder it is just a mystery to me. More than any company in America it has brands that really have brand value. Every man in America owns Craftsman tools. It's unbelievable what is happening. Wanted to buy the shares when they were cheap but didn't have the money. Right now they are scary.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2012)

I wonder if part of their problem is the sheer amount of inventory. There's just so much stuff there stacked on top of each other which inevitably is sold for a massive discount. I'd start by editing the selection.


----------



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I see some still haven't figured out multiquote. 

This has been a fruitful thread. Aside from some interesting theories, there were a few facts that I wasn't aware of. However, I _have_ witnessed an increase in Sears goods hitting the salvage market. There are higher concentrations of Covington apparel at the lower-end off-price retailers than that of house brands from Kohl's or JCP. They are just hemorrhaging cheap apparel. All of it is zeroed-out and sold by the pallet to liquidators. It's embarrassing when stores undersell Sears with their own goods in the same city.


----------



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

This is probably not a great sign either:


----------



## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

andy b. said:


> Many years ago in my youth, my parents would get me and my siblings LE rugby shirts for Christmas. ... A lightweight piece of junk made in Sri Lanka of similar quality to the ON rugby I had purchased for around $18...


So what brand do you buy now?


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

^^ None. If someone could point me to a rugby shirt of as high a quality as LE used to be, I might be interested in purchasing one to see how they compare. These were very heavy shirts, with sleeves that might best be described as tall-length with long elastic cuffs that NEVER lost their stretch (even after ten+ years and hundreds of washings).

Andy B.


----------



## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

Have you checked out the "Barbarian" shirts that Muffy had on Daily Prep? They looked like they had promise.

As to the rugby shirts of old, man, but I miss those. I had a navy with yellow stripes LE rugby that was indestructible. Several semesters of dorm washing machines did no damage.



andy b. said:


> ^^ None. If someone could point me to a rugby shirt of as high a quality as LE used to be, I might be interested in purchasing one to see how they compare. These were very heavy shirts, with sleeves that might best be described as tall-length with long elastic cuffs that NEVER lost their stretch (even after ten+ years and hundreds of washings).
> 
> Andy B.


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Never saw the "Barbarians" before. My niece is out at Penn State, and she said she'll pick me one up at Lions Pride tomorrow. I'll report back on how they compare to LE of old. If they suck, I will surely return it.

Andy B.


----------



## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

My prediction is that Lands' End, and the Craftsman and Kenmore brands will land in the hands of a willing investment group as Eddie Lampert takes the company private and finishes killing it by not investing in its survival.


----------



## DFPyne (Mar 2, 2010)

andy b. said:


> Never saw the "Barbarians" before. My niece is out at Penn State, and she said she'll pick me one up at Lions Pride tomorrow. I'll report back on how they compare to LE of old. If they suck, I will surely return it.
> 
> Andy B.


Not to turn this into a rugby thread, but you might want to check out Columbiaknit.They claim to be "the original developers and manufacturers of pre-shrunk 100% cotton Rugby shirts for Lands End and LL Bean" and I have no reason not to believe them.

I have a couple of their rugbys and really like them. Made in the USA.


----------



## Angrik (Dec 7, 2006)

There's always Home Depot's Husky line or Lowe's Kobalt line, both of which are just as good as Craftsman. Of course, if you want better quality tools, then I suggest Matco or Snap On.


----------

