# G. J. Cleverley Bespoke Shoe Pictures?



## Mr. Chatterbox

While reading Artisan Fan's Jason Amesbury thread , I was struck by how much more elegant medwards' photographs of his Cleverley shoes were than the illustration that jcusey posted from the Cleverley website. Is it possible for others to post actual photographs of their Cleverley-made shoes?


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## medwards

Thank you. I will try to post some additional images later. In the meantime, there are some photos on a Japanese site (which is also linked on jcusey's bespoke shoemaker thread) that should be of some assistance. The individual has rather particular tastes, but I believe you should be able to get a pretty good idea of the breadth of Cleverley's work, particularly if you explore the site beyond the linked page: 



NOTE: Unfortunately, this link no longer appears to be active. 4/29/10


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## jcusey

There are also a good number of Cleverley shoes on the Centipede website.


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## medwards

I would agree that the images in the Cleverley website and in the Cleverley catalogue don't really capture the beauty and craftsmanship of their shoes. Here are a few pair from my closet that shoud give you a better sense of their bespoke footwear. I apologize for the quality of the photographs. I am afraid that photography is not my strong suit. 

GJ Cleverley antique chestnut calf Adelaide oxford shoe
https://imageshack.us

GJ Cleverley black calf stitch toe oxford shoe
https://imageshack.us

GJ Cleverley black calf cap toe quarter brogue oxford shoe
https://imageshack.us

GJ Cleverely antique chestnut monkstrap shoe
https://imageshack.us

GJ Cleverley burnished London tan full brogue oxford shoe
https://imageshack.us

GJ Cleverley chocolate brown calf cap toe oxford shoe
https://imageshack.us

I will try to post some additional images later.


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## jcusey

medwards said:


> GJ Cleverley burnished London tan full brogue oxford shoe
> https://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img01821hn9.jpg


I really like the thistle medallion on this pair. What do you think that your next pair will be? I'm currently considering an apron-front side-elastic in something dark but not black, but I'm sure that things will change at least ten times before September.


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## medwards

Thank you. I too am very partial to the thistle design. Cleverley is currently making me a pair of brown reverse calf balmoral (in the British sense) oxfords -- a galosh oxford would be another descriprion. I'm not sure after that, but I am leaning toward a plain toe, three-tie derby.


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## jcusey

medwards said:


> Thank you. I too am very partial to the thistle design. Cleverley is currently making me a pair of brown reverse calf balmoral (in the British sense) oxfords -- a galosh oxford would be another descriprion.


Another idea dancing around in my mind is a balmoral boot in suede. Cleverley has a beautiful sample of this, which would be my point of departure.



> I'm not sure after that, but I am leaning toward a plain toe, three-tie derby.


https://img343.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00709cz9.jpg


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## LotharoftheHillPeople

medwards said:


> Thank you. I too am very partial to the thistle design.


medwards, 
All of your shoes in the photos are stunning. The thistle medallion is new to me; is that a creature of Cleverley's invention? I think the adelaide thraoted shoes above would be smashing with thistle medallion. Once again, all very nice examples, I do not think I could have picked a lineup more suitable to my taste!


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## Panzeraxe

jcusey - is that a pair of the Russian reindeer shoes?


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## jcusey

Panzeraxe said:


> jcusey - is that a pair of the Russian reindeer shoes?


Well, it's a single shoe, but it is one half of a pair of Russian reindeer shoes. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Panzeraxe

ahhh - c'mon - you know what I meant


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## jcusey

Panzeraxe said:


> ahhh - c'mon - you know what I meant


Aww, what's life without good-natured ribbing? :icon_smile_big:


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## Panzeraxe

I know, I know - Beautiful shoes btw


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## Artisan Fan

That chocolate cap toe is incredible but I would be a proud owner of any one.


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## medwards

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> medwards,
> All of your shoes in the photos are stunning. The thistle medallion is new to me; is that a creature of Cleverley's invention? I think the adelaide thraoted shoes above would be smashing with thistle medallion. Once again, all very nice examples, I do not think I could have picked a lineup more suitable to my taste!


Thank you. I do believe the thistle to be a very classic motif.


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## centipede

medwards said:


> Thank you. I do believe the thistle to be a very classic motif.


I love The thistle medallion.:icon_smile: 
The thistle medallion can be used even in E.G Falkirk. 
https://centipede.web.fc2.com/egfalkirk.html
It made it to the same type for this shoes. 
Ryota Hayafuji shoe's
https://centipede.web.fc2.com/rhayafuji.html


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## medwards

Welcome, centipede. I do hope that you will find this Forum a good experience. We look forward to your continued participation and your contributions.


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## medwards

*Cleverley Suede Balmoral Oxfords*

As promised, here are some images of the brown suede Balmoral (galosh) oxfords that Cleverley has just finished for me:

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


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## RJman

What a perfect looking shoe. What will you wear it with?


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## Mr. Chatterbox

Very elegant!!!!

So what's next?


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## masterfred

Smashing shodding! I particularly like the broqueing running to the shoe's heel. 

As for wearing it, I'd wear it with almost anything except formalwear. I love brown suede brogues and semi-brogues.


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## luk-cha

medwards said:


> As promised, here are some images of the brown suede Balmoral (galosh) oxfords that Cleverley has just finished for me:
> 
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> https://imageshack.us


i just love this shoe! i have a full wing tip brogue in burgundy in a simular way to this it is 1 of my fave's


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## aportnoy

RJman said:


> What a perfect looking shoe. What will you wear it with?


I must agree, what a lovely shoe. It elevates suede to another level of elegance. Was this a based on a Cleverley sample or soemthing that you had in your mind's eye?


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## jcusey

aportnoy said:


> I must agree, what a lovely shoe. It elevates suede to another level of elegance. Was this a based on a Cleverley sample or soemthing that you had in your mind's eye?


I can't speak for medwards, but my first pair from Cleverley is exactly that pattern (in London tan with a different toe medallion), and I picked it out from a sample that the Cleverley representative (Paul Davies, actually) had with him. I think that the tobacco suede really looks rich in that pattern, and I hope that medwards will be very happy with them.


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## LotharoftheHillPeople

They are beautiful. I would expect no less from the professor.


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## Artisan Fan

[Homer Simpson Voice]

Hmmmm, Cleverley....


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## Bonhamesque

Wow medwards! That is some carpet!


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## medwards

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Very elegant!!!! So what's next?


Thank you. Contemplating the next pair is one of the most enjoyable aspcts of this little enterprise. As noted earlier a three- or perhaps two-tie derby is a possibility as is a burgundy wing-tipped Adelaide.



RJman said:


> What a perfect looking shoe. What will you wear it with?


Thank you. As L'hommeRJ knows, I don't generally wear brown suits; refrain from matching brown footwear with navy, gray or charcoal; and am not accustom to wearing suede shoes with suits. But I am rethinking all three of these. Stay tuned. 



aportnoy said:


> I must agree, what a lovely shoe. It elevates suede to another level of elegance. Was this a based on a Cleverley sample or soemthing that you had in your mind's eye?


Thank you. The style details are rather classic...and I knew that the leather would be suede. The more difficult decision was selecting the the right shade. I had been thinking of a somewhat redder hue at first, but decided on this one and am very pleased with the result.


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## Sator

medwards said:


> I too am very partial to the thistle design. Cleverley is currently making me a pair of brown reverse calf balmoral (in the British sense) oxfords -- a galosh oxford would be another descriprion. I'm not sure after that, but I am leaning toward a plain toe, three-tie derby.


Thank you for the amazing pictures of the shoes. My head is still swooning from looking at them all!

Just a question though, John Lobb St James (once upon a time of Sydney!) calls an Oxford boot with a contrasting top a galosh Oxford:

https://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catal...ots/Website_boots/Oxfordboots/oxfordthumb.htm

Can someone perhaps enlighten me as to the exact definition of a "galosh" and "galosh Oxford". In the literal meaning of the word a galosh is:

"a waterproof overshoe that protects shoes from water or snow - with origins apparently in the 14th C, meaning 'wooden clog' from French galoche; from Latin gallicula, a small Gaulish shoe".

I can remember people growing up also calling little rubber Wellington boots worn by children to school on wet days "galoshes" so I always thought it was another term for a boot.


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## medwards

A galosh oxford is the same as a Balmoral oxford in the British sense...a close-laced shoe with the seam running horizontally along the side of the shoe. This can be seen very clearly on the first of the two photographs of my suede shoes. In the case of John Lobb, that seam is at the point where the cloth meets the leather. The contrasting top is coincidental. It would still be a John Lobb galosh oxford if the top and bottom were of the same material and colour.


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## Sator

medwards said:


> A galosh oxford is the same as a Balmoral oxford in the British sense...a close-laced shoe with the seam running horizontally along the side of the shoe. This can be seen very clearly on the first of the two photographs of my suede shoes. In the case of John Lobb, that seam is at the point where the cloth meets the leather. The contrasting top is coincidental. It would still be a John Lobb galosh oxford if the top and bottom were of the same material and colour.


Thank you. I am clear now. Hence they also call this a 'galosh Oxford button boot':

https://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catal...boots/Website_boots/Buttonboot/buttonboot.htm

In other words both this button boot as well as these Oxford boots can also be correctly called Balmoral boots in the British sense of the term:

https://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catal...ots/Website_boots/Oxfordboots/oxfordthumb.htm


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## AlanC

Does the galosh/balmoral design have any effect on the formality of the shoe as compared with another oxford design?


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## medwards

I do not believe the seam placement changes the degree of formality; but any accompanying punching or broguing might. But this would be the case for the standard oxford design as well.


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## Brian13

Artisan Fan said:


> [Homer Simpson Voice]
> 
> Hmmmm, Cleverley....


you have to add the gargling noise after he says that.


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## Brian13

very nice suede shoes medward.


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## medwards

Thank you. They are a tad darker and richer in real life than they appear in the photograph as a result of the lighting and flash. I am very pleased with them.


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## medwards

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Very elegant!!!! So what's next?


Oh yes, I've also started thinking about a very neat austerity brogue in black calf for wear in warmer weather.


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## luk-cha

could you give us a sneak peak if you have a photo of the style you got in mind?


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## des merrion

Medwards,
I love the brouges.

www.desmerrionbespoketailor.com


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## jcusey

luk-cha said:


> could you give us a sneak peak if you have a photo of the style you got in mind?


Here's a picture of EG's version of the austerity brogue, the Beaulieu, from the website:

Medwards, would you have the edges of the leather pieces gimped, as they are with the Beaulieu, or straight-cut? While we're on the topic, does anyone know why it is so common for leather edges on austerity brogues to be gimped? The Vass book (p. 105) mentions that this operation makes the edges stronger, but I must be especially dunderheaded this morning because I don't see how.


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## medwards

luk-cha said:


> could you give us a sneak peak if you have a photo of the style you got in mind?


I am thinking of an austerity brogue -- which is an oxford with stitched wing cap but no punching. The gentlemen at Cleverley term this a "stitched full brogue." The following illustrations should give you some idea as to the basic style, but I am considering having it made up in a rather sleek design, very neat, in black calf, with a rather thin (quarter inch) sole for summer wear...circumstances when more ornate or heavier broguing may seem a bit, well, _heavy_ particularly with very light suit fabrics. Aside from the wing cap, I am not sure as to the other seams and stitching...whether to keep it along the classic oxford lines or to follow something more like an Adelaide pattern.

The classic John Lobb St. James's version:

https://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lobbausag0.jpg

A Tony Gaziano bespoke version:

https://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=austqb5.jpg

And a somewhat less citified Cleverley one:

https://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cleverleyausbn0.jpg


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## medwards

jcusey said:


> Medwards, would you have the edges of the leather pieces gimped, as they are with the Beaulieu, or straight-cut? While we're on the topic, does anyone know why it is so common for leather edges on austerity brogues to be gimped? The Vass book (p. 105) mentions that this operation makes the edges stronger, but I must be especially dunderheaded this morning because I don't see how.


Sorry, JC, but I didn't see your message before posting the above response to luk-cha. I haven't decided yet on gimped v straight-cut. I think I'll leave that to a discussion with George Glasgow if I decide to go this route. However, any suggestions are certainly welcome.


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## luk-cha

medwards said:


> I am thinking of an austerity brogue -- which is an oxford with stitched wing cap but no punching. The gentlemen at Cleverley term this a "stitched full brogue." The following illustrations should give you some idea as to the basic style, but I am considering having it made up in a rather sleek design, very neat, in black calf, with a rather thin (quarter inch) sole for summer wear...circumstances when more ornate or heavier broguing may seem a bit, well, _heavy_ particularly with very light suit fabrics. Aside from the wing cap, I am not sure as to the other seams and stitching...whether to keep it along the classic oxford lines or to follow something more like an Adelaide pattern.
> A Tony Gaziano bespoke version:
> 
> https://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=austqb5.jpg


now i like the TG one the most as it is a whole cut and it think you choice will be great esp for the summer, if a wholecut is not to your taking then you could do it in a 2 peice will be equally stunning

also you could do simular to your suade and make it like this too

https://centipede.web.fc2.com/gandg1.html

in a 2 peice stitched brogue would be a slight change and i think an interesting shoe design too


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## jcusey

medwards said:


> Sorry, JC, but I didn't see your message before posting the above response to luk-cha. I haven't decided yet on gimped v straight-cut. I think I'll leave that to a discussion with George Glasgow if I decide to go this route. However, any suggestions are certainly welcome.


The only place where I really hate gimping is around the top of the shoe. On stiff leathers like the English makers typically use, those little teeth can bite into my ankle. In other places, I think that it is attractive if it is small-scale.


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## jcusey

A balmoral austerity brogue? Yes, that would be interesting.



luk-cha said:


> also you could do simular to your suade and make it like this too
> 
> https://centipede.web.fc2.com/gandg1.html
> 
> in a 2 peice stitched brogue would be a slight change and i think an interesting shoe design too


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## medwards

Thank you, luk-cha. Actually I was indeed considering something similar to the black balmoral (galosh) oxfords to which you linked but not as an austerity brogue...again a bit sleeker shoe, a wing-capped blamoral in burgundy, but I am now leaning toward such a brogue with an Adelaide throat rather than the balmoral structure.


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## RSS

These are the only pictures I have on file of my shoes made by the Cleverley bunch ... albeit before they left New & Lingwood to found the new establishment.

As mentioned when I posted previously ... the shoes arrived as we were packing to move from New York to Berkelely ... and I didn't even bother to open the package. When we arrived in California, I couldn't find them and assumed they had been lost.

Then, just a few years ago, upon opening a never before noticed box marked "Unused Kitchen Items" ... or something of the like &#8230; well &#8230; the entire neighborhood was startled by the screams coming from my basement.

I recall AAAC member A Harris coming by the my office within days of my finding them ... I had them sitting on the desk as if they were a bibilot or more aptly, a trophy.

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


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## dprof

At their trunk show, G&G had a lovely austerity brogue on their smart sq. last.
The catalog depiction does not do it justice. I spent alot of time looking it over...


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## luk-cha

medwards said:


> Thank you, luk-cha. Actually I was indeed considering something similar to the black balmoral (galosh) oxfords to which you linked but not as an austerity brogue...again a bit sleeker shoe, a wing-capped blamoral in burgundy, but I am now leaning toward such a brogue with an Adelaide throat rather than the balmoral structure.


i am into brogues at the minute esp this style i just think it looks a lot sleaker and in my opinion more modern i guess that is because it is not as common (also this is on my want list too for next year - plus a few others now all i need to 2 excuse to get back to england) i have got an half adelaide with a short wing cap on order now in a milk choc brown.


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## medwards

Scott: I had a similar experience with a similar pair of shoes. It too was in the days when George Glasgow and John Carnera were at New & Lingwood. I had returned a pair of black cap toe oxfords for a bit of repair and when they were completed, they were kind enough to deliver them to my mother's flat in Knightsbridge. I had a trip planned to visit her at the time, but something came up and my plans changed. I thought the delay would just be a short time, but alas the days turned to weeks and the weeks into months. At some point, she simply put the box in a closet to await my visit. When I next got to London we had both simply forgotten about it. The next year, she returned to the States and this shoe box got packed up with cartons and crates of household items that were shipped across the Atlantic and then placed into storage. I'm not sure they ever would have resurfaced, but she needed to find something or other among the boxes and in her quest came across the shoes. What a remarkable coincidence!


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## RSS

While I was snaping a shot for another thread ... I pulled these out of the closet. Again they are from the days when the Cleverley bunch were at New & Lingwood.

https://imageshack.us


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## RSS

Medwards ... interesting coincidence indeed ... and I'd imagine you were as elated as I to find them!

I plan to be in London in early December ... and am looking forward to stopping in at Cleverley ... at the very least to say hello ... if not to place an order. As I have various items in progress with both A&S and RA ... I'll have to weigh the wallet before taking the next step with Cleverley.

*Edit:* In response to an e-mail I note: The shoes were made in the late 70's ... and the one on the right is in shadow ... so that is not discoloration. And yes, I did polish them just after posting the picture ... I could see more detail in the photograph than I could in life!


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## Mr. Chatterbox

Thank you medwards, jcusey and Scott for sharing these images. Photographs of actual Cleverley-made shoes are indeed more appealing than the illustrations in the catalogue and on the .


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## well-kept

jcusey said:


> While we're on the topic, does anyone know why it is so common for leather edges on austerity brogues to be gimped? The Vass book (p. 105) mentions that this operation makes the edges stronger, but I must be especially dunderheaded this morning because I don't see how.


JCUSEY,
I believe that, in theory at least, gimping has the effect of giving leather somewhere to give when it bends, reducing the strain on the edge. In their old B&W catalogue Lobb credits broguing with the same effect. If either of these cutting features actually strengthen an edge it is probably minimally.


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## medwards

Yes, broguing is believed to strengthen the shoe, but is that not for a different reason? In the case of brogues, the additional stitching and material makes the shoe stronger and less susceptable to the stress of movement (which is why Lobb would recommend brogues for its golfing shoes). Isn't that different than the effect of gimping or pinking along the edge of the leather?


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## well-kept

There would be the same number of stitches per inch and the same doubled thickness of leather in an austerity brogue possessing neither punched holes nor gimping. This leads me to believe that, again in theory, the pattern of holes and the hill-and-valley contour of a brogued and gimped seam allows the leather to bend more freely at those stress points without tearing. That's my understanding of the theory. I own old pairs with both treatments, however, and none of them have exhibited tearing in that way.


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## manton

I have to say, these "I found a pair of bespoke shoes in the closet" stories are really galling. It's like the guy going through a box at a garage sale and finding a copy of _Action Comics _#1. Sort of.


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## jcusey

manton said:


> I have to say, these "I found a pair of bespoke shoes in the closet" stories are really galling. It's like the guy going through a box at a garage sale and finding a copy of _Action Comics _#1. Sort of.


All this means, manton, is that you don't buy nearly enough shoes.


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## medwards

manton said:


> I have to say, these "I found a pair of bespoke shoes in the closet" stories are really galling. It's like the guy going through a box at a garage sale and finding a copy of _Action Comics _#1. Sort of.


Like this old thing??? 

https://imageshack.us


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## RSS

manton said:


> I have to say, these "I found a pair of bespoke shoes in the closet" stories are really galling. It's like the guy going through a box at a garage sale and finding a copy of _Action Comics _#1. Sort of.


Let it happen once ... and you'll discover that keeping it to yourself is simply impossible. It's better than winning the lottery!

One second thought ... winning the minimum California lottery would pay for 1000 pairs of Cleverley shoes! Never mind, I'm wrong.


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## RSS

Well, I just keep finding more in the closet. Thank you Manton for the encouragement.

https://imageshack.us

Now I have to go find that thread asking whether or not tassel loafers are for girly men only.


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## RJman

Those are some of the nicest looking tassel loafers I've ever seen. Great toe shape.


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## aportnoy

I just found Jimmy Hoffa in my closet. He was hiding under a stack antique John Lobb boots.


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## well-kept

Presumably they became antique while in your closet.


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## sheik

manton said:


> I have to say, these "I found a pair of bespoke shoes in the closet" stories are really galling. It's like the guy going through a box at a garage sale and finding a copy of _Action Comics _#1. Sort of.


Once is a fluke but the tassels?!?!? That's two pairs of bespoke shoes you FORGOT about! HELLOOOOO! I want to move into your closet!


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## medwards

I sense that there are a great many more stories of Forum members who have "found" clothing and accessories they had thought lost or discarded. Rather than derail this thread with such tales, I have started a new thread on that very subject...and have taken the liberty of sharing Scott's story as the first example. Let's see what others have found in the backs of their closets, the bottom of their dressers, or in old mislabeled boxes,


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## RSS

sheik said:


> Once is a fluke but the tassels?!?!? That's two pairs of bespoke shoes you FORGOT about! HELLOOOOO! I want to move into your closet!


Well ... the first story was very true. As for the tassel shoes ... I was well aware of them ... in fact, wore them last evening. I was just ... uhhh ... teasing Manton.

But ... while I'm at it ... posting one more pair of shoes by John and George.

https://imageshack.us


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## Concordia

RSS said:


> But ... while I'm at it ... posting one more pair of shoes by John and George.
> 
> https://imageshack.us


Are those Balmorals, or conventional Oxfords? Can't see how the seam works its way back.


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## Orgetorix

Concordia said:


> Are those Balmorals, or conventional Oxfords? Can't see how the seam works its way back.


They look like conventional Oxfords. You can just see the seam beginning to curve down on the shoe that's in the foreground.


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## medwards

It's hard to tell on my monitor as well, but as you can see from the photos of my buckskin Balmoral oxfords on the first page of this thread, the folks at Cleverley certainly can -- and do make -- a very handsome galosh-oxford shoe.


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## Concordia

Yes-- David Cook from D&G sometimes wears a pair in black, which are a slightly sporty twist on basic business wear.


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## medwards

Perhaps some Forum member would post photographs of his new Russian reindeer Adelaides?


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## Eustace Tilley

medwards said:


> Perhaps some Forum member would post photographs of his new Russian reindeer Adelaides?


:icon_smile: Just got the message:


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## medwards

And some of the story behind this leather.


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## comrade

As one who has a congenital aversion to broguing, the only shoes
among the many shown are from Cleverly and G. Marini (Rome):

Cleverly three eyelet Derby

Marini Cordovan Plain Toe

https://homepage2.nifty.com/cobblers-web/bespoke/bespoke_top.htm

I have a similar aversion to ticket pockets.


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## medwards

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Very elegant!!!! So what's next?


A pair of black calf imitation (blind) brogue Adelaides with rather small punching and without a toe medallion. Very neat and trim. Light enough for summer city wear...clean lines so the brogue pattern doesn't suggest too much informality.


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## Teacher

*Eustace:* How do you like your shoes? How would you describe the leather?


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## Eustace Tilley

Teacher said:


> *Eustace:* How do you like your shoes? How would you describe the leather?


Love the shoes - perfect fit and the leather looks great and wears very well. The leather does certainly dry easily, but all that means is that you have to polish the shoes more often.


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## meister

Eustace Tilley said:


> Love the shoes - perfect fit and the leather looks great and wears very well. The leather does certainly dry easily, but all that means is that you have to polish the shoes more often.


what is the dark mark along the left shoe toecap pinking?


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## fritzl

meister said:


> what is the dark mark along the left shoe toecap pinking?


His initials. Referring to the OP on SF.


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## laufer

Anybody knows how much are GJ Cleverley bespoke made shoes. I know John Lobb goes for close to $5000 but I cannot find any pricing for GJ Cleverley


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## Concordia

About 60% of that.


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## eagle2250

Eustace Tilley said:


> :icon_smile: Just got the message:


It seems, every time I see pics of those shoes, I find myself in 'lust' all over again! Did someone say Cleverly still has hides available?


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## medwards

Yes, they still have Russian calf, though the supply is said to be limited. Guesses are that there are still two or three years supply remaining, but no one would be surprised if the supply lasts even longer. 

Additional Russian reindeer hides remain buried in the muck and mud on the ocean floor, although the amount remains unknown. However, these are not likely to be salvaged. The divers who had been doing this reclamation from the wreck have now retired and it is unlikely that anyone else will follow suit. This is difficult, dangerous work with limited financial rewards..assuming one could get permission from the Duke of Cornwall to continue the endeavor. The market for two hundred year old Russian calf -- a somewhat thick, stiff skin, embossed with cross-hatching, bearing natural imperfections and markings, and having a slight musty aroma -- remains rather limited...despite the allure of the story and the fact that Cleverley can indeed make these hides into beautiful shoes.


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## laufer

Concordia said:


> About 60% of that.


Thank you.


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## medwards

meister said:


> what is the dark mark along the left shoe toecap pinking?





fritzl said:


> His initials. Referring to the OP on SF.


I believe he means along the toe cap seam, not where the owner's initials have been blacked out for privacy.


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## Mr. Chatterbox

medwards said:


> A pair of black calf imitation (blind) brogue Adelaides with rather small punching and without a toe medallion. Very neat and trim. Light enough for summer city wear...clean lines so the brogue pattern doesn't suggest too much informality.


One picture is worth a thousand (let alone thirty-nine) words!!!!!!! :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## medwards

*Cleverley Imitation Brogue Adelaides*

Ask and ye shall receive!!! 

I'm afraid these photographs are not the best, but they should give you an idea about these shoes. As noted earlier, they are imitation brogues with an Adelaide throat and _sans_ any punching on the toe cap. They were ordered to meet my desire for a very light weight (which they are) black calf oxford for wear with lighter weight summer suits. I wanted a hint of informality to match the season, yet still be appropriate for business wear. Some shoemakers refer to this construction as "blind" brogues rather than "imitation" brogues (the term used by Cleverley), but the result is the same -- an oxford in which the broguing/decorative punches are embedded directly on the upper rather than overlaying an additional piece of leather.

I will try to get some better pictures posted in the near futire.

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


----------



## Will

I particularly like the small punches.


----------



## medwards

I had wanted something very clean and simple. In fact, I had contemplated an austerity or stitched brogue...but in the end that really seemed a bit _too _plain. The small punching was chosen to add a bit of texture and design without making the shoe too ornate or busy. Likewise, I opted to forego any punching around the ankle to keep from having too much decoration on the shoe, though I am not sure that would have made much of a difference. In any event, they did turn out exactly as I had requested and I am quite pleased with the result. :icon_smile:


----------



## luk-cha

medwards said:


> I had wanted something very clean and simple. In fact, I had contemplated an austerity or stitched brogue...but in the end that really seemed a bit _too _plain. The small punching was chosen to add a bit of texture and design without making the shoe too ornate or busy. Likewise, I opted to forego any punching around the ankle to keep from having too much decoration on the shoe, though I am not sure that would have made much of a difference. In any event, they did turn out exactly as I had requested and I am quite pleased with the result. :icon_smile:


these look great i had also been thinking about something simular to these as i like my G&G mitchels and the micro brogueing on an adelaide would be be great and this has confirm my thinking

i have considered a austeriy or stiched brogue with a grained skin perhaps a pigskin in black or very dark brown as the skin has just enough interest to make it workable IMO


----------



## Ay329

Medwards, thanks for the pictures on the imitation brogues

I think I will ask for my first bespoke job to exclusively have imitation brogueing...but your shoes made me realize I want my shoe to look busy and desire the size of the brogueing to be larger than yours

Your picture helped my realize what I didn't want :crazy:


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## fritzl

Ay329 said:


> Your picture helped my realize what I didn't want :crazy:


I don't care for them(micro brogues) either.

On the other hand, this is the _advantage _and much more the pleasure of being an _advanced _bespoke customer: You can pick out the raisins.

You realize, which of the makers will fulfill your demands best(referring to the current "First bespoke shoe" discussion on SF).

Me, for example, was always after an black austerity wingtip blucher like this example from Balint, Vienna









but I always skipped it for something else. At the moment, it's not even on the shortlist.


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> One picture is worth a thousand (let alone thirty-nine) words!!!!!!! :icon_smile_wink:





medwards said:


> Ask and ye shall receive!!!
> 
> I'm afraid these photographs are not the best, but they should give you an idea about these shoes. As noted earlier, they are imitation brogues with an Adelaide throat and _sans_ any punching on the toe cap. They were ordered to meet my desire for a very light weight (which they are) black calf oxford for wear with lighter weight summer suits. I wanted a hint of informality to match the season, yet still be appropriate for business wear. Some shoemakers refer to this construction as "blind" brogues rather than "imitation" brogues (the term used by Cleverley), but the result is the same -- an oxford in which the broguing/decorative punches are embedded directly on the upper rather than overlaying an additional piece of leather.
> 
> I will try to get some better pictures posted in the near futire.
> 
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> https://imageshack.us


Thank you, Medwards. Very handsome indeed! So the obvious question now is: "what shall be your next pair?" :icon_smile_big:


----------



## fritzl

medwards said:


> I believe he means along the toe cap seam, not where the owner's initials have been blacked out for privacy.


Rereading this, I would say a reflection of the light in the polished toebox.


----------



## medwards

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Thank you, Medwards. Very handsome indeed! So the obvious question now is: "what shall be your next pair?" :icon_smile_big:


While I generally have a pretty strong idea about future orders, I'm still mulling this over...but I'm sure I'll have something in mind by October 3rd . Of course, suggestions are always welcome.


----------



## luk-cha

medwards said:


> While I generally have a pretty strong idea about future orders, I'm still mulling this over...but I'm sure I'll have something in mind by October 3rd . Of course, suggestions are always welcome.


how about a nice beachnut balmoral(galosh) semi brogue


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## medwards

luk-cha said:


> how about a nice beachnut balmoral(galosh) semi brogue


I have been quite pleased with the buckskin Balmoral (galosh) oxfords that Cleverley made for me a year or two ago (see photo below and earlier in this thread), though I doubt that beechnut would be my choice of color. Perhaps Russian calf. 

https://imageshack.us


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## Arnold Gingrich fan

Handsome balmorals! Unusual to see captoe bals as low shoes, rather than ankle boots.


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## Mr. Chatterbox

Arnold Gingrich fan said:


> Unusual to see captoe bals as low shoes, rather than ankle boots.


----------



## Arnold Gingrich fan

Mr. Chatterbox said:


>


Captoes are more typically found on balmorals like these:

https://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u290/crosby_square/AuctionsMay2007159.jpg

https://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u290/crosby_square/AuctionsMay2007153.jpg


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## Mr. Chatterbox

And these:

https://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catal...hoes/Oxfords/Goloshoxford/golosh_oxford_1.htm

https://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r160/jjl50002/Warwick4.jpg

:icon_smile_big:


----------



## Arnold Gingrich fan

True dat. Hat's off to you, Chat. :icon_smile:

At least in America, the balmoral style most commonly appears on chunky, heavy-soled "gunboat" shoes, the kind that Allen-Edmonds still churns out.


----------



## luk-cha

medwards said:


> I have been quite pleased with the buckskin Balmoral (galosh) oxfords that Cleverley made for me a year or two ago (see photo below and earlier in this thread), though I doubt that beechnut would be my choice of color. Perhaps Russian calf.
> 
> https://imageshack.us


hhmmm russian calf woulf be awesome too some of them are sort of beachnut color too:icon_smile_wink:


----------



## medwards

Beechnut tends to be a bit "tan" for my taste; I personally prefer colors with some additional warmth and depth (of course, I _am _partial to black as well  ). I was thinking of a Russian calf with a darker brown, redder hue. They would be replacing a pair that the Cleverley folks made for me two decades ago (although those were the classic punch cap oxford design).


----------



## luk-cha

medwards said:


> Beechnut tends to be a bit "tan" for my taste; I personally prefer colors with some additional warmth and depth (of course, I _am _partial to black as well  ). I was thinking of a Russian calf with a darker brown, redder hue. They would be replacing a pair that the Cleverley folks made for me two decades ago (although those were the classic punch cap oxford design).


to be honest the only beechnut sample i have seen is the one in G&G's bespoke and Tony discribed it as the aniline version of bauxite i remember it as being a redish brown pretty much like what you was considering in the Russian calf - but if the color is close to ET adelaide i know which i would choose!


----------



## medwards

It is probably worth noting that shoemakers vary greatly in how they term the color of their leathers. For instance, Cleverley's antique chestnut is a very dark reddish brown (you can see an example in the fourth post of this thread although the flash has lightened the appearance of the Adelaides pictured there considerably. On the other hand, Edward Green's chestnut is a substantially lighter color with strong orange hues. Perhaps that is the same with beechnut. The samples I have seen have all been rather "tan." However, I do not recall seeing Gaziano & Girling's particular version, but perhaps I will check with Dean whilst he is in town Monday.


----------



## luk-cha

yes you should!:devil: also consider G&G's mahogany too (i have this already) this is if you are going down the G&G route this time - if i have mixed up what i thourght G&G's beechnut was, i'm sorry! but both that and their bracken seem to sick as very very nice shades of brown IIRC.

if you were gonna go the G&G route what not do a version of their mitchel as a balmoral or even keep it as it is but just 2 peice?

Medwards are you a Derby man? i dont seem to recall any of you BS cleverleys to be!


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## Ay329

Medwards, time you did something crazy in bespoke...you already have the basics well covered


----------



## luk-cha

Ay329 said:


> Medwards, time you did something crazy in bespoke...you already have the basics well covered


haha this i dont think i could picture!

what about a stingray whole cut in purple or olive??? hahaha!


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox

Ay329 said:


> Medwards, time you did something crazy in bespoke.





luk-cha said:


> haha this i dont think i could picture!


Agreed! "Crazy" is not a term one would readily associate with The Professor! Impeccable, perhaps. Stylish, undoubtedly. But crazy???? No, I seriously doubt that.


----------



## Ay329

Cleverley was in town and got a first hand look to experience the Lazyman shoe. :icon_hailthee:

George Cleverley, not Anthony, created the design. Anthony replicated it 

George Cleverley worked with Anthony at Tuczek for a number of years.

Anthony had a falling out with his uncle, and for a few decades, up until Anthony's death, the two never spoke

George Glasgow mentioned it was George who was the artisan...not Anthony, yet Anthony ONLY had about a couple dozen clients of his own

The current Cleverley shop has about 4-5 of shoes made by Anthony Cleverley for viewing. Mr. Glasgow had one on hand here in L.A. It belonged to some deceased Baron who was purported to have made some hundreds of bespoke shoes over his lifetime. Before he passed away, he went to the Cleverley shop and gave Mr. Glasgow 4-5 shoes made by Anthony. Additionally, George Cleverley had made many of the Baron's shoes and purportedly from 1950 and until his passing in 1991, George Cleverley was always in the process, non-stop, of making a shoe for him

Mr. Glasgow personally knew Anthony Cleverley and had kind words to describe Anthony's workmanship. But his eyes lit up each time he talked about George Cleverley.

I didn't order anything since I'm waiting to see G&G and Fosters within the next month before my final decision. 

I noticed Mr. Glasgow didn't like the idea of the client asking to modify various shoe designs. For example, take the Lazyman shoe (which he was kind enough to bring a sample and was also wearing one himself). This is a traditional full brogue design. I wanted the Lazyman modified with either an Adelaide throat or in the alternative, a longwing galosh/balmoral brogued design. He ultimately said this can be done but he fought it...I was quite surprised. He fought making adjustments to this shoe's design, ie using a short wing tip compared to a traditional wing tip design. I respect a shoemaker who stands his ground and tells me if aesthetically, something won't look good...but he kept focusing on how I didn't need to change any design details...regardless of aesthetics. This inflexible position did not instill confidence.

In the end with both my toddler sons trashing Montalvo's and actually fighting it out towards the end. The whole process turned sour when the littlest one was crying his brains out in pain while the bigger one was tugging at me yelling "I'm hungry" (I cursed the liberals for outlawing corporal punishment). I took this opportunity to shake Mr. Glasgow's hand and walked out. (I got stuck with my sons in an Emergency...otherwise kids have no place in this process!!!

My understanding of Cleverley, is that they have been making a number of beautiful designs as handed down by George Cleverley for years...and you are then encouraged to choose the color leather you desire...not much of anything else. 

I can understand how a number of his designs work well over the years, but my desire when going bespoke is to update the classics. I felt pressured to not diverge from their designs and I felt this was not what I wanted.

I'll leave you with the fitting quote from Mr. Glasgow as I was leaving, "Why mess with something that has worked for years?"

A voice within me instantly answered, "because I ultimately didn't like the design of your shoe and wanted the bespoke process to further refine the style?" He would only grudingly do it...I want an artisan who would love to make it

Next stop, Fosters on October 14, and G&G just before Halloween to see if I can find the right artisan to get excited over building a future piece of bespoke art.. not just a cordwainer who feels the past should not be refined.


----------



## medwards

First, Michael, let me say that I am sorry that your visit with George Glasgow did not go as well as you had hoped. As you know, I have been a customer for many, many years and have always found them exceptionally helpful and willing to accomodate my interests and needs. That said, I do believe that having confidence in a shoemaker, building a good working relationship, and having a shared view about design, style and construction are important elements in the bespoke process. I do hope that you find what you are looking for and we all are eager to see the final result. 



luk-cha said:


> Medwards are you a Derby man? i dont seem to recall any of you BS cleverleys to be!


I actually have very few derby shoes in my wardrobe. The folks at Cleverley did make me a really lovely three eyelet derby in black calf years ago that got a great deal of wear, but otherwise the derby design is not terribly appealing to me. I do not wear derby shoes with suits and find most styles a bit heavy looking for my size and taste. 



Ay329 said:


> Medwards, time you did something crazy in bespoke...you already have the basics well covered


Yes, I guess I do have the basics pretty well covered.  But I am a man of rather traditional inclinations and tend not to stray terribly far from the classics. That said, I appreciate subtlety and small details can be very important to me...so I take some pleasure in little tweaks and innovations that may not be obvious to others...but to me that might even seem a little wild or "crazy". :icon_smile_big:



luk-cha said:


> haha this i dont think i could picture! what about a stingray whole cut in purple or olive??? hahaha!


No, I couldn't picture that either. Of course, I have spent four decades trying to forget some of my more adventurous decisions during my Carnaby Street period (certainly that turquoise and purple jacket wasn't made for _me._ )



Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Agreed! "Crazy" is not a term one would readily associate with The Professor! Impeccable, perhaps. Stylish, undoubtedly. But crazy???? No, I seriously doubt that.


How about "stodgy?"


----------



## luk-cha

well i must say that you must have a real hard time contemplating what shoes to order with so many great shoes on the rack!

i must say i do have a list but i kind of get stuck at a dozen - may i ask what is your total count now with both C and G&G?


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## medwards

I am fortunate that I started having shoes made a very long time ago. At that time, the cost was not anywhere near as dear as it is today. One finds that after a steady accumulation of items, the total can be surprising large.


----------



## luk-cha

medwards said:


> I am fortunate that I started having shoes made a very long time ago. At that time, the cost was not anywhere near as dear as it is today. One finds that after a steady accumulation of items, the total can be surprising large.


you are are the lucky one! quality over quanitiy after 5, 10 years i guess it is supprising what amasses


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## medwards

luk-cha said:


> you are are the lucky one! quality over quanitiy after 5, 10 years i guess it is supprising what amasses


Make that 20, 25 years and you can see why I lack not for shoes.


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## luk-cha

medwards said:


> Make that 20, 25 years and you can see why I lack not for shoes.


well i am about your size on all accounts, so any you wish to recycle:icon_smile_wink: then, well...:devil:

i think i will leave it at that! but yes even at a pair a year i bet your shoes only would see 12 wearings per year!

no wonder they all look like new!


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## Ay329

I digress but can you imagine the Baron who worked with Cleverley

Or even our own Aportnoy...how many wearings per year do his shoes get?

I'm just glad there are people out there how have the financial means to explore their ever hungry desire for beautiful shoes...and vicariously, we get to learn from them and now and then, experiment with our own


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## luk-cha

Ay329

did Cleverley take your measments on this trip?


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## Ay329

They did not take my measurements and I will not order from them

My gut feeling was that he did not want to make my shoe. George Glasgow said he could make it, but his heart was not it.

Tony Gaziano wants to make it!!!

There is a difference between Tony Gaziano/Dean Girling and George Glasgow (I can't speak about Foster's yet).

George Glasgow gracefully preserves the legacy of George Cleverley's designs so that his clients can enjoy bespoke Cleverley shoes

But where Tony Gaziano & Dean Girling diverge from George Glasgow is that they tip their hats to Cleverley's designs and further refine some of them so that a client desiring a more modern interpretation to the traditional English shoe, find a home with G&G

Maybe one day Fritzl will go the way of Grimslade or Aportnoy in trying G&G...but thats as likely as Medwards or even RJMan being found alive wearing the Lazyman


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## medwards

luk-cha said:


> but yes even at a pair a year i bet your shoes only would see 12 wearings per year! no wonder they all look like new!


As with most everything else in my wardrobe, some items get worn more frequently than others. There are many reasons for this. Some shoes -- because of design or construction -- are only fitting for certain seasons or occasions; some are only paired well with specific colors, fabrics, or styles; others are more adaptable or have become "favorites" for one reason or another. It is certainly true that I am able to wear each pair less often than someone with a more limited wardrobe, but the real reasons my shoes may appear new is that I have always invested in products of exceptional quality and I try to care for them properly. I have shoes that I have worn quite frequently for over two decades that have well withstood the rigors of the street and the passage of time. :icon_smile:


----------



## tskrovan

medwards said:


> I would agree that the images in the Cleverley website and in the Cleverley catalogue don't really capture the beauty and craftsmanship of their shoes. Here are a few pair from my closet that shoud give you a better sense of their bespoke footwear:
> 
> GJ Cleverley antique chestnut calf Adelaide oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverley black calf stitch toe oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverley black calf cap toe quarter brogue oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverely antique chestnut monkstrap shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverley burnished London tan full brogue oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverley chocolate brown calf cap toe oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> I will try to post some additional images later.


What a handsome collection. I am truly jealous!


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## medwards

Thank you. If you are interested in exotics, you might find Jun Kuwana's crocodile Cleverley's of some note. I would think this is pretty graphic evidence that the firm can venture beyond the classic.  By the way, I had posted a link to his site early in this thread. It is worth visiting to see some additional styles and approaches that Cleverley has crafted for him as well as those of some other makers.

https://imageshack.us


----------



## luk-cha

medwards said:


> As with most everything else in my wardrobe, some items get worn more frequently than others. There are many reasons for this. Some shoes -- because of design or construction -- are only fitting for certain seasons or occasions; some are only paired well with specific colors, fabrics, or styles; others are more adaptable or have become "favorites" for one reason or another. It is certainly true that I am able to wear each pair less often than someone with a more limited wardrobe, but the real reasons my shoes may appear new is that I have always invested in products of exceptional quality and I try to care for them properly. I have shoes that I have worn quite frequently for over two decades that have well withstood the rigors of the street and the passage of time. :icon_smile:


i agree even thro sometimes certain shoes become fave's and others dont esp with my RTW shoes - some of which i have been lucky enough to sell, with others pending!

because HK is really does not suffer too much with the seasons like a lot of places so i only need to plan for hot and mild to cool weather so even thro i love the heavier cloths they not a practical choice so when i have been planning my BS shoes for example i generally look for something that i am able to dress up an sporty/ casually too

you make a excellent point about investing in quality products - less in the short term but in the long run you are the winner as the build up of great shoes and clothing that both become a part of you persona is great - i guess that is why vintage clothing etc is more popular now than ever


----------



## bengal-stripe

Ay329 said:


> The current Cleverley shop has about 4-5 of shoes made by Anthony Cleverley for viewing. Mr. Glasgow had one on hand here in L.A. It belonged to some deceased Baron who was purported to have made some hundreds of bespoke shoes over his lifetime. Before he passed away, he went to the Cleverley shop and gave Mr. Glasgow 4-5 shoes made by Anthony. Additionally, George Cleverley had made many of the Baron's shoes and purportedly from 1950 and until his passing in 1991, George Cleverley was always in the process, non-stop, of making a shoe for him.


The 'Baron' was Alexis von Rosenberg, Baron de Rédé
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_von_Rosenberg,_Baron_de_Rédé

They don't make them flamboyant like him anymore.


----------



## medwards

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> Thank you, Medwards. Very handsome indeed! So the obvious question now is: "what shall be your next pair?" :icon_smile_big:





medwards said:


> While I generally have a pretty strong idea about future orders, I'm still mulling this over...but I'm sure I'll have something in mind by October 3rd . Of course, suggestions are always welcome.


Well, inasmuch as it is now October 3rd, I can answer your question, Mr. C. The next pair will be a pair of Russian calf Balmorals (in the British sense of the term) with a toe cap but _sans_ medallion. :icon_smile:


----------



## speedster

medwards said:


> Well, inasmuch as it is now October 3rd, I can answer your question, Mr. C. The next pair will be a pair of Russian calf Balmorals (in the British sense of the term) with a toe cap but _sans_ medallion. :icon_smile:


Absoutely no broughing? Iow like the EG chelsea? But I agree that with such a interesting leather plainer is better.

_Being the simpleton I am I'm considering a MTO in crossgrain from one of the manufacturers spoken about here on AAaC
_


----------



## medwards

No, the horizontal seam that makes the shoe a Balmoral will be brogued and there will be a punched toe cap but front of the cap will be plain rather than adorned with a medallion. The texture and embossed cross-hatching of the Russian calf (not to mention the little irregularities and variations in shading) should create enough interest without additional punching or designs.


----------



## bengal-stripe

speedster said:


> ...like the EG chelsea?


It will be an (English) Balmoral, where the vamp (forepart) is pulled back, 
all the way to the heel (like EG's 'Gladstone'):


----------



## medwards

Yes, but a bit more like this (using a Cleverley example)...except my last is shaped a bit differently, there are some refinements in the broguing, and the leather will be Russian calf rather than buckskin.

https://imageshack.us


----------



## speedster

Thank you for that clarification, I'm sure it will be an other splendid example from Cleverly. 

I personally find the galosh style to be somewhat difficult, but variations like the JLP Towchester have me intrigued.

But I will look forward to the pictures!


----------



## jcusey

medwards said:


> The texture and embossed cross-hatching of the Russian calf (not to mention the little irregularities and variations in shading) should create enough interest without additional punching or designs.


I agree with you, which is why neither of my Russian calf pairs of shoes has any broguing at all.


----------



## Bespoke Trout

If you don't mind me asking, how much are bespoke shoes these days? I assume a considerable amount.


----------



## medwards

medwards said:


> The texture and embossed cross-hatching of the Russian calf (not to mention the little irregularities and variations in shading) should create enough interest without additional punching or designs.





jcusey said:


> I agree with you, which is why neither of my Russian calf pairs of shoes has any broguing at all.


We are of a like mind here...and that has always been the folks at Cleverley's recommendation as well. The first Russian calf shoes they made up for me (and this was when they were at Poulsen Skone) was a rather classic punch cap oxford. That said, I have seen some very lovely Russian calf shoes that contain quite a bit of ornamentation. One very nice example is the very striking full brogued oxford by Klemman of Basthorst, Germany, pictured in the Vass _Handmade Shoes for Men _book. And Cleverley itself has certainly made some equisitely detailed and brogued shoes using this leather. Perhaps others can add some images to this thread. But the attraction of this leather -- to me at least -- is in its story and the individuality of the hides; their unique grain, hand embossed design, and connection to the wilderness. I like that reflected as much as possible in the final shoe.


----------



## speedster

I did this summer see a splendid sample at Stefano Bemer in Florence.
He apparently has some stock of the hide to ...

You have of course all seen


----------



## medwards

A number of other shoemakers and leather workers indeed have access to some of the Russian calf that was aboard the _Metta Catharina von Flensburg_. However, Cleverley still maintains first choice of the hides. This is important because the hides vary greatly in many respects. First, while they are generally said to be reindeer; in fact, they come from a variety of bovine animals. The cross-hatched design is on some, but not all, of the hides and inasmuch as they were hand embossed, the depth and consistency of the cross-hatching varies. These were for the most part the skins of animals who lived in the wild and they reflect the rigors of their existence with many cuts, abrasions and markings. They are of various thicknesses and the degree of stiffness/flexibility differs greatly. Some of this matters little perhaps if one is making luggage or similar leather products. But it can be very important in shoemaking...not just because of appearance, but because the thickness and suppleness of the leather can have a very significant impact on the fit and feel of the shoe. Indeed, the folks at Cleverley tend to be very circumspect when recommending this leather. They generally do not to suggest it for a first bespoke shoe for if the fit is not spot on, the shoe may be less comfortable, flex differently, and feel quite different than what a new customer might rightly expect from a bespoke product. That said, once one's last is well established and if one understands what to expect from this leather, one can indeed have some beautiful footwear made from this Russian calf. I am very pleased to say that I have in the past and expect to have another such pair completed around the New Year. :icon_smile:


----------



## medwards

Bespoke Trout said:


> If you don't mind me asking, how much are bespoke shoes these days? I assume a considerable amount.


Cleverley standard bespoke shoes (I believe) are 1532 British pounds excluding VAT plus 170 Britsh pounds for hinged shoe trees. However, I would check with the company insamuch as prices do change and the cost of certain styles/leathers may differ.


----------



## fritzl

medwards said:


> They are of various thicknesses and the degree of stiffness/flexibility differs greatly. Some of this matters little perhaps if one is making luggage or similar leather products. But it can be very important in shoemaking...not just because of appearance, but because the thickness and suppleness of the leather can have a very significant impact on the fit and feel of the shoe. *Indeed, the folks at Cleverley tend to be very circumspect when recommending this leather.* They generally do not to suggest it for a first bespoke shoe for if the fit is not spot on, the shoe may be less comfortable, flex differently, and feel quite different than what a new customer might rightly expect from a bespoke product.


Don't you think, the hides are pre-selected?



medwards said:


> ... one can indeed have some beautiful footwear made from this Russian calf.


Indeed, Klemann's example is a different beast to what you've chosen.

It's a full brogue oxford, with a goyserer welt and the jagged _framing_. One can say: It's the best of both worlds.

Generally spoken. If the leather features a distinct _pattern_, simpler styles are favored by most of the makers: i.e. austerity brogue, blind broguing, etc.


----------



## medwards

fritzl said:


> Don't you think, the hides are pre-selected?


If you mean, do I believe Cleverley has a supply of hides that they have already purchased and are in stock, the answer is yes. But there is great variety among these and they need to select the right one for the particular needs and preferences of their clients. For instance, they made a pair of Russian calf shoes for a member of this forum who happens to have a bunyon on one foot -- a condition that would not take well to less flexible leather...so they found a particularly supple hide to accommodate this.



fritzl said:


> Indeed, Klemann's example is a different beast to what you've chosen.It's a full brogue oxford, with a goyserer welt and the jagged _framing_. One can say: It's the best of both worlds. Generally spoken. If the leather features a distinct _pattern_, simpler styles are favored by most of the makers: i.e. austerity brogue, blind broguing, etc.


Yes, the reason I referenced that particular brogue was precisely to make the point that while many suggest simpler designs and detailing for embossed or grained leathers such as the Russian calf from the _Metta Catharine_, it can certainly be made up into very handsome, heavily brogued and detailed fortwear as well.


----------



## kelliw

Ay329 said:


> They did not take my measurements and I will not order from them
> 
> My gut feeling was that he did not want to make my shoe. George Glasgow said he could make it, but his heart was not it.
> 
> Tony Gaziano wants to make it!!!
> 
> There is a difference between Tony Gaziano/Dean Girling and George Glasgow (I can't speak about Foster's yet).
> 
> George Glasgow gracefully preserves the legacy of George Cleverley's designs so that his clients can enjoy bespoke Cleverley shoes
> 
> But where Tony Gaziano & Dean Girling diverge from George Glasgow is that they tip their hats to Cleverley's designs and further refine some of them so that a client desiring a more modern interpretation to the traditional English shoe, find a home with G&G
> 
> Maybe one day Fritzl will go the way of Grimslade or Aportnoy in trying G&G...but thats as likely as Medwards or even RJMan being found alive wearing the Lazyman


If you were not ordering from Cleverley, why would Mr.Glasgow spend 20 minutes measuring you? That would simply be a waste of time and would make no sense.

I was in NYC at the same time as Cleverley, where it appears thay have double the size of shoe styles/models to show clients than in LA. I asked Mr Glasgow, which he said bringing 200+ samples across America is just to much to carry (which makes sense).

Let us know how it goes with G&G... and if you actually order


----------



## wiimii

bengal-stripe said:


> The 'Baron' was Alexis von Rosenberg, Baron de Rédé
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexis_von_Rosenberg,_Baron_de_Rédé


"Redé had few but luxurious requirements.

He liked red rooms lighted by candles, cut flowers lightly misted

with water to imitate dew and English handmade shoes."

Exquisite legacyof Baron de Redé


----------



## medwards

As promised, here are some photographs of the Russian calf Balmoral oxfords from Cleverley. I am sorry the images are not a bit better but photography is not one of my strong suits. I believe the nature of this leather has been discussed at great length before -- including some comments in this thread -- so I won't dwell on that aspect of these shoes. I would only note that I did ask them to try to use some skins that showed some of the character of the hides but that also had a bit more suppleness than is sometimes the case. I believe they succeeded in both regards. As for style, these shoes are replacing a pair of Russian calf punch toe oxfords that the Cleverley folks made for me many years ago (when they were still at New & Lingwood). I have come to favor the true Balmoral (galosh oxford) style and lines. It remains classic while adding a bit a sleekness and movement as the result of the horizontal seam and punching. Indeed, it has become by default style.

As for wear, I tend to pair such shoes with country suits, tweeds and fabrics with some texture.

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


----------



## jjl5000

Wonderful!

I love the balmoral style :aportnoy:


----------



## Ay329

The bottom picture is the best expression of this beautiful balmoral


----------



## chrstc

Hello Medwards,
What truly spectacular shoes. Possibly the best Cleverleys I have ever seen pictured here although your suede balmorals and Eustace Tilley's Russia Calf Adelaides run them close.

Many congratulations on owning such wonderful footwear!

Chris.

I should also have added that, until your posts in this thread last year, I had not even considered buying a balmoral myself. Now I am very keen to get one as my next shoe.


----------



## eagle2250

medwards said:


> As promised, here are some photographs of the Russian calf Balmoral oxfords from Cleverley...
> 
> As for wear, I tend to pair such shoes with country suits, tweeds and fabrics with some texture.....


Medwards: Nothing wrong with your photography. Those pictures literally took my breath away...of course, it could have been the shoes. They are indeed, quite handsome!


----------



## Cary Grant

medwards said:


> https://imageshack.us
> 
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> https://imageshack.us


This leather looks almost identical to aportnoy's Clev's in reindeer:


----------



## bengal-stripe

Cary Grant said:


> This leather looks almost identical to aportnoy's Clev's in reindeer:


It's the same leather. Some call it 'Russia Calf' others 'Russian Reindeer'. The leather was discovered in 1973 after almost 200 years on the sea bed.

https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullp...BA15757C0A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Cleverley has the right to use the leather for bespoke shoes, New & Lingwood for RTW.



> *The most wonderful leather in the world
> *
> _In 1973 divers off Plymouth Sound, searching for the wreck of H.M.S Harwich came across an encrusted ship's bell. It was lying in shallow water between Drake's island and the coast of Cornwall. After the bell was cleaned it was seen to belong to the Catherina von Flensburg, an eighteenth century, 53 ton Danish brigantine, registered as belonging to Hedrick Larck and Kurt Anderson between 1782 and 1786............
> 
> Here we have the original pre 1800 leather-mainly reindeer, cured in baths of rye or oat flour and yeast, hand finished and soaked in wood liquor. Hand curried while still wet and soaked in seal oil and birch tan oil. It is the birch oil that gave the Russia leather its distinctive aroma. The original tanners initials are still visible and the hatched grain embossed by coffer or wooden hand stamps on the damp leather can be seen to enhance the lovely natural colours, which range from light tan to rich coffee brown. _
> 
> https://www.newandlingwood.com/information.phtml


----------



## chrstc

Hello,
Bengal you beat me to posting that link!

Interestingly I just received a piece of Russia calf leather today that I won in an eBay auction from Mr Snelson over the weekend. I had hoped that I might be able to use parts of it as "trimming" for a future bespoke shoe order but that doesn't look like it will be possible. The hide is very tough indeed and, as has been mentioned by many other people, it really does have a strong smell. I have a cold at the moment and am thinking of sniffing the hide all night to try and clear my sinuses..... 

The pattern on the leather is quite distinctive even on my piece which is obviously not a top quality section. I would love a pair of Russia Calf shoes at some point in the future.

Chris.


----------



## bengal-stripe

chrstc said:


> .....it really does have a strong smell. I have a cold at the moment and am thinking of sniffing the hide all night to try and clear my sinuses.....


Tell me, if it works better than that stuff:


----------



## medwards

jjl5000 said:


> Wonderful! I love the balmoral style :aportnoy:





Ay329 said:


> The bottom picture is the best expression of this beautiful balmoral





chrstc said:


> Hello Medwards, What truly spectacular shoes. Possibly the best Cleverleys I have ever seen pictured here although your suede balmorals and Eustace Tilley's Russia Calf Adelaides run them close. Many congratulations on owning such wonderful footwear! Chris.
> 
> I should also have added that, until your posts in this thread last year, I had not even considered buying a balmoral myself. Now I am very keen to get one as my next shoe.


Thank you. I am not really sure why the Balmoral/galosh style of shoe hasn't been more popular or even available in ready-to-wear footwear in recent years, though I believe the style has held its own amongst London's bespoke shoemakers. The design itself is classic; the look very clean. It does not -- in itself -- alter the formality of the shoe. Indeed in that regard it stands equal to a similarly brogued, shaped and finished traditional oxford of the same leather and color. For those with rather classic tastes, but who seek something a tad different than the norm, such a Balmoral -- or a well-crafted Adelaide -- would seem a very fitting choice.



eagle2250 said:


> Medwards: Nothing wrong with your photography. Those pictures literally took my breath away...of course, it could have been the shoes. They are indeed, quite handsome!


Thank you. There is always a challenge with such images, particularly the lighting and the angle. Moreover, one seldom sees a shoe at so close a proximity as one does from a close-up camera shot. This may be helpful in assessing quality and construction, but it can be misleading in terms of how a shoe looks to others whilst it is being worn. In daily life, shoes are seen from a bit of a distance and from above looking downward. And their appearance is clearly affected by the other apparel being worn.



Cary Grant said:


> This leather looks almost identical to aportnoy's Clev's in reindeer:





bengal-stripe said:


> It's the same leather. Some call it 'Russia Calf' others 'Russian Reindeer'. The leather was discovered in 1973 after almost 200 years on the sea bed.


The term "Russian calf" is used in two separate ways -- the first, as used here, refers to the hides -- primarily but not solely reindeer which were tanned in Russia in 1785 or so and which were found among the wreckage of the _Metta Catherina_. The second usage is for a specific process for tanning leather, reindeer or not. A quick serach of the term should yield you rather lengthy past discussions of this leather, the tanning process, and the allure of the tale of the _Metta Catherina_.



chrstc said:


> The hide is very tough indeed and, as has been mentioned by many other people, it really does have a strong smell. I have a cold at the moment and am thinking of sniffing the hide all night to try and clear my sinuses.....The pattern on the leather is quite distinctive even on my piece which is obviously not a top quality section. I would love a pair of Russia Calf shoes at some point in the future.


The hides are indeed tougher and stiffer than those leathers generally used in bespoke shoemaking, although I should note that this varies amongst the skins. They vary greatly in terms of thickness and suppleness. This isn't really a concern in bookbinding or the making of leathergoods such as cases and luggage, but it can have an effect in shoemaking and the comfort and flexibility of the shoe. Likewise, the cross-hatched design is embossed on some -- but not all -- of the Metta Catherina's skins and it is quite varied even on a single hide (I think you can see that from the images of such shoes in this thread). As for the aroma, yes, there is a distinctive smell, but this too differs, particularly as a result of how the hides were treated after salvage and prepared for use. I have had two pair of such Russian calf shoes made over the years and I would not consider the aroma of either as "strong" although this is obviously a subjective opinion. Taken as a whole, I think one can see how unique this material is. Some find this -- and the wonderful tale of its rediscovery -- a great incentive to possess Russian calf shoes or other leather goods. Others find the idea of stiff, burred and marked, inconsistent, perhaps smelly, two centuries old skins a rather uninviting choice -- particularly at a financial premium. To each his own...


----------



## Ay329

Medwards: "To each his own"

Cleverley should have a clear display...signed by you with the above quote

This is the halmark of bespoke


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox

Thank you, Professor Edwards. What I find most intriguing about these Russian calf shoes is how you and the gentlemen at Cleverley found a way to make what should be a rather rustic leather into a shoe of such elegance. Congratulations!

On another note, I see from your postings in this thread that you often opt for a round toe rather than the much acclaimed Cleverley chisel. Is that indeed correct? And if so, what has been your thinking behind this choice?


----------



## fritzl

medwards said:


> The hides are indeed tougher and stiffer than those leathers generally used in bespoke shoemaking, although I should note that this varies amongst the skins.


is this the reason you went with the so called rtw heel counter???

btw, i'm really tempted by the leather.


----------



## fumanpo

*My Cleverley stuff*

Well, looks like I'm late to the Cleverley picture party...I'd like to share some pics of my stuff too:


































The story behind the Russian leather was what drew me to Cleverley in the first place. I probably wouldn't have started with the Russian reindeer leather had I known better, so I was taking a chance on a less supple material. The shoes were occasionally tight and uncomfortable, but after 3-4 months, the leather had accommodated themselves to my feet, and the fit has been absolutely exquisite since then. The Russian leather shoes are still my favorite pair of bespokes in my small collection, and I make sure to wear either one of my Cleverleys when I know I'm putting in a late evening at the office. After 12-15 hours, I really notice how light they are on my feet, and it is definitely worth everything I paid for them.

With subsequent bespoke shoe orders, I've always experienced 3-4 months of occasional discomfort when breaking them in, so I've learned to hold judgment on a particular shoe and fit until wearing it for at least 4 months.

My Russian leather does have some shade variation, and there are some superficial cracks throughout that I was concerned about. Mr. Glasgow just told me it was part of the leather's character though, so I've gotten used to it over time. Does anyone else have these cracks on their Russian leather shoes, or did I just get unlucky with my pieces of leather??

Their standard Russian leather shoe offering did not come in the chiseled toe shape. I asked Mr. Glasgow to work in some chiseling for me, so what you see is what he did to accomomdate my request. As you can see, the chiseled toe is more pronounced on my elastic sided slip on's.

Cleverley recently sold a limited edition run of 50 Russian reindeer wallets with a golden calf leather interior, to celebrate their 50th anniversary. So I managed to snag one of them. The bright interior lining does cheer me up somewhat when I need to fork over my credit card!


----------



## fritzl

fumanpo said:


> The Russian leather shoes are still my favorite pair of bespokes in *my small collection*, and I make sure to wear either one of my Cleverleys when I know I'm putting in a late evening at the office. After 12-15 hours, I really notice how light they are on my feet, and it is definitely worth everything I paid for them.
> 
> With subsequent bespoke shoe orders, I've always experienced 3-4 months of occasional discomfort when breaking them in, so I've learned to hold judgment on a particular shoe and fit until wearing it for at least 4 months


this might be the legimitate, if not ultimative, answer to the ever lasting bespoke discussion.

it's good to read stories from man like you or medwards, who have been able to build up a relationship with their shoes.


----------



## medwards

fumanpo said:


> The story behind the Russian leather was what drew me to Cleverley in the first place. I probably wouldn't have started with the Russian reindeer leather had I known better, so I was taking a chance on a less supple material. The shoes were occasionally tight and uncomfortable, but after 3-4 months, the leather had accommodated themselves to my feet, and the fit has been absolutely exquisite since then. The Russian leather shoes are still my favorite pair of bespokes in my small collection, and I make sure to wear either one of my Cleverleys when I know I'm putting in a late evening at the office. After 12-15 hours, I really notice how light they are on my feet, and it is definitely worth everything I paid for them.


In the past, the folks at Cleverley have counseled customers away from Russian calf for their first pair of bespoke shoes...or at least have given them a fairly good understanding of what to expect from these hides. There were several reasons for this. First, because of the leather's properties, the fit needs to be really spot on to assure the kind of feel and comfort one would expect from bespoke footwear. Of couse, a perfect fit is always the goal. But as good as some shoesmakers are, it may be that only after that first pair is made and worn for a while that one can fully assess the small tweaks that might be necessary to perfect the last. Russian calf is less supple and adaptable than bespoke-grade calf. Consequently, clients who opt for Russian calf as their initial order are more likely to feel that their shoes fall short of their expectations and may not have the patience for modifications, particularly inasmuch as this leather comes at a higher price. Second, bespoke shoemakers such as Cleverley generally use the finest leathers available and are quite proud at how exquisitely these make up. The difference to a customer used to ready-to-wear footwear can be very obvious. The Russian calf's rustic, inconsistent, possibily stiff and blemished appearance is contrary to the elegance many bespoke shoemakers want to impart to a new customer. That said, they obviously will make a shoe up in Russian calf for a new customer; they will work with him to assure the best possible fit; and -- as in this example -- if the fit is not quite perfect at the outset, it may well adjust perfectly over time. I should note that in my own case, this latest pair of Russian calf Balmoral oxfords are an exceedingly good fit and seem perfectly comfortable from the first wearing. Of course, we have had many, many years to refine my last and such a fit should be expected.



> With subsequent bespoke shoe orders, I've always experienced 3-4 months of occasional discomfort when breaking them in, so I've learned to hold judgment on a particular shoe and fit until wearing it for at least 4 months.


I am a bit surprised by this. While all shoes -- with proper care -- should increase in comfort as they are worn in, I do feel that three to four months of wear is unduly long for subsequent orders. I would hope that you are sharing how the shoe fits and feels initially and over that period of time so that the Cleverley folks can make whatever minor alterations might be needed so that you get a better fit from the first wearing and a shorter break-in period.



> My Russian leather does have some shade variation, and there are some superficial cracks throughout that I was concerned about. Mr. Glasgow just told me it was part of the leather's character though, so I've gotten used to it over time. Does anyone else have these cracks on their Russian leather shoes, or did I just get unlucky with my pieces of leather??


I am not sure what you mean by superficial cracks. Abrasions, irregularities etc are the norm for these hides. They do tend to dry out more than the normal calf used by bespoke makers so -- if not properly cared for -- cracks can indeed develop. Whether one considers this normal and part of the character of the shoe or not is probably a matter of personal taste -- another reason why one should carefully consider whether this leather is right for you.


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox

fritzl said:


> is this the reason you went with the so called rtw heel counter???


What and where is the rtw heel counter on medwards' shoes? I am afraid I do not understand?

https://imageshack.us


----------



## fritzl

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> What and where is the rtw heel counter on medwards' shoes? * I am afraid I do not understand?*


https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=84328


----------



## fumanpo

> I am not sure what you mean by superficial cracks. Abrasions, irregularities etc are the norm for these hides. They do tend to dry out more than the normal calf used by bespoke makers so -- if not properly cared for -- cracks can indeed develop. Whether one considers this normal and part of the character of the shoe or not is probably a matter of personal taste -- another reason why one should carefully consider whether this leather is right for you.


See my closeup pic's...Is this something others have seen on their Russian leather shoes as well? These cracks have been there from the beginning on my pair. They haven't gotten bigger as the years have gone by.


----------



## medwards

*New Thread Started*

Fumanpo: I have taken the liberty of copying your inquiry about these cracks to a new, separate thread  in the hope that will get you a wider array of responses. I suspect that it will also provide some conversation about leather quality and care. I do hope this helps.


----------



## Thewaxmania

While the medallion is certainly different, I'm not sure how I feel about it. It looks too big for me, otherwise these are beautiful shoes and the owners are certainly lucky.


----------



## Mr. Chatterbox

Which medallion?


----------



## JWM1960

*How to Order*

How does one order Cleverley bespoke shoes? I am not planning on going home to the mother country anytime soon. Does CJC have reps that visit the USA occaisionally to take orders? Does anyone know if there is such a visit planned in the Washington / Baltimore area anytime soon? I tride CJC's web site. It says it is under construction, and there is not much there.


----------



## bengal-stripe

JWM1960 said:


> Does CJC have reps that visit the USA occaisionally to take orders?


Cleverley's George Glasgow visits the USA at least twice a year (usually spring and autumn). I'm pretty certain, he will be in the States within the next two months.

E-mail the company and ask for the forthcoming dates and which places he will visit. If that suits you, make an appointment, look at the samples, discuss your requirements and, if you're happy, place an order.


----------



## Ay329

If you live in Arizona then come to Los Angeles to see Cleverley


----------



## kelliw

bengal-stripe said:


> Cleverley's George Glasgow visits the USA at least twice a year (usually spring and autumn). I'm pretty certain, he will be in the States within the next two months.
> 
> E-mail the company and ask for the forthcoming dates and which places he will visit. If that suits you, make an appointment, look at the samples, discuss your requirements and, if you're happy, place an order.


To make an appiontment, contact them via email:

[email protected]

Ay329 is right, Cleverley does come to Los Angeles. They generally come March/April.


----------



## medwards

Last autumn, George Glasgow and/or Dominic Casey of Cleverley traveled to New York, San Francisco, Beverly Hills, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, Washington, D.C., Middleburg, and Boston. This was a rather standard itinerary for them and one would expect their Spring 2009 visit to be similar (although there is no substitute for actually checking with the firm). Once such traveling artisans' travel schedules are set, they a generally posted in the Artisans' Itineraries section of this Forum.


----------



## JWM1960

*Thanks Medwards*

Thank you Medwards for the information and suggestion. I have indeed communicated with the company, and they have confirmed that Mr. Casey will be in Washington DC on May 8 and May 9.


----------



## lovemeparis

*nice shoes...*



medwards said:


> I apologize for the quality of the photographs. I am afraid that photography is not my strong suit.
> 
> GJ Cleverley chocolate brown calf cap toe oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us


Wow, Professor, I like this pair a lot...

By the way, how tall are you 'cause they are kinda huge :icon_smile_big: 
and I can help w/ the photo taking or perhaps the other way around...

...paris 2 LA


----------



## Cary Grant

My first bespoke pair in progress. GJ Cleverley. Modified galosh.
The last pic is from the first fitting last week; shoe is obviously on a temp sole. Color is truest in that pic. The calf on the finished shoe, once polished, won't be as reddish.
The right last needs some modifiying to further accomodate the high instep. Likely due date this Fall depending on the next fitting.


----------



## Cary Grant

To answer the common question I received in a few PM's- it takes roughly 9 months from beginning to end. Woudl be somewhat quicker if you lived in London or could get there with greater frequency.


----------



## kelliw

Wonderful shoes Cary Grant!

My bespoke Cleverley's took 5-months from beginning to end. However, this was because I stopped in London (for business) 8 weeks after my measurements were first taken to have a fitting, which was perfect, then they finished them and sent them to me in the U.S.

Has anyone got their dates for the Fall Trunk Shows yet? I have not received my itinerary card yet...


----------



## Cary Grant

kelliw said:


> Wonderful shoes Cary Grant!
> 
> My bespoke Cleverley's took 5-months from beginning to end. However, this was because I stopped in London (for business) 8 weeks after my measurements were first taken to have a fitting, which was perfect, then they finished them and sent them to me in the U.S.
> 
> Has anyone got their dates for the Fall Trunk Shows yet? I have not received my itinerary card yet...


Thanks Kelli :icon_smile:

George mentioned they hadn't settled on dates yet but it would certainly be "October-ish"


----------



## Artisan Fan

These pics really make me want to try Cleverley soon.


----------



## kelliw

They are coming to Atlanta in October. Their dates for their Fall 2009 U.S.A. trunk show dates are on their website: www.gjcleverley.com
:icon_smile:


----------



## Artisan Fan

kelliw said:


> They are coming to Atlanta in October. Their dates for their Fall 2009 U.S.A. trunk show dates are on their website: www.gjcleverley.com
> :icon_smile:


You are dangerous.


----------



## Artisan Fan

Atlanta is October 19th and 20th.


----------



## kelliw

Artisan Fan said:


> You are dangerous.


But a good dangerous :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## hunter517

medwards said:


> I would agree that the images in the Cleverley website and in the Cleverley catalogue don't really capture the beauty and craftsmanship of their shoes. Here are a few pair from my closet that shoud give you a better sense of their bespoke footwear. I apologize for the quality of the photographs. I am afraid that photography is not my strong suit.
> 
> GJ Cleverley antique chestnut calf Adelaide oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverley black calf stitch toe oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverley black calf cap toe quarter brogue oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverely antique chestnut monkstrap shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverley burnished London tan full brogue oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> GJ Cleverley chocolate brown calf cap toe oxford shoe
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> I will try to post some additional images later.


how much does a shoes cost like this? it' perfect


----------



## indylion

centipede said:


> I love The thistle medallion.:icon_smile:
> The thistle medallion can be used even in E.G Falkirk.
> https://centipede.web.fc2.com/egfalkirk.html
> It made it to the same type for this shoes.
> Ryota Hayafuji shoe's
> https://centipede.web.fc2.com/rhayafuji.html


Welcome to the forum. Now that you are here, I have a question.
Are the Cole Haan (Werner) shoes on your site shell cordovan?

thanks,


----------



## Cary Grant

hunter517 said:


> how much does a shoes cost like this? it' perfect


For bespoke, currently around £1700-1800. At today's exchange, about $2900.

Just got an email from Cleverley- expect my shoes in about a month.:aportnoy:


----------



## culverwood

Cary Grant said:


> For bespoke, currently around £1700-1800. At today's exchange, about $2900.
> 
> Just got an email from Cleverley- expect my shoes in about a month.:aportnoy:


Plus taxes and duty if relevant.


----------



## kelliw

The bespoke shoes are £1,700 export. The Anthony Cleverley/Semi-Bespoke are approx £795 export.


----------



## Cary Grant

The finished pair.


----------



## kelliw

WOW! Those are beautiful. Great choice.


----------



## Ay329

That unique Anthony Cleverley U front design was beautifully incorporated into your bespoke design

How is the fit

How helpful, if at all, was the first fitting?

How different is the fit and comfort of your Cleverley semi-bespoke compared to the bespoke shoe you just posted?

Thank you for sharing your exerpience and pictures with us :aportnoy:


----------



## Cary Grant

Thanks guys. Regarding fit- I am going to withold judgement on them until I wear them a bit. The right shoe had several issues in the first fitting. I'm not 100% certain that they were fully resolved. 

I didn't expect them to be perfect (first shoe and all) but I want to give them some break-in time before I judge.


----------



## LD111134

Those shoes are so damn beautiful. :icon_smile:


----------



## Cary Grant

Ay329 said:


> That unique Anthony Cleverley U front design was beautifully incorporated into your bespoke design
> 
> How is the fit
> 
> How helpful, if at all, was the first fitting?
> 
> How different is the fit and comfort of your Cleverley semi-bespoke compared to the bespoke shoe you just posted?
> 
> Thank you for sharing your exerpience and pictures with us :aportnoy:


First comment on fit after 1/2 day at work. They seem to be breaking in quickly; good. I've never had a proper-fitting shoe (lengthwise) on my (smaller) right foot, so it took some getting used to. 
I'm wearing a bit of moleskin on each heel but otherwise pleased so far.


----------



## kelliw

Artisan Fan said:


> These pics really make me want to try Cleverley soon.


Talking of which, they are in Atlanta today (just saw that on the website).


----------



## medwards

*Black is the new black*

A pair of rather traditional black calf Adelaides replacing a pair that the Cleverley folks made for me twenty-one years ago

https://img641.imageshack.us/i/adelaides1.jpg/

https://img62.imageshack.us/i/adelaides2.jpg/

https://img693.imageshack.us/i/adelaides3.jpg/


----------



## AlanC

^Very handsome, medwards!

In what condition is the older pair?


----------



## medwards

Hmmmm. That's not as easy to answer as one would think. They were well worn and well cared for. Over the years, they picked up a few cracks and abrasions, but nothing terribly damaging. At the same time, my last has been tweaked a bit over the years and I am not sure they could have been recrafted yet again. It just seemed like the right time to replace them. :icon_smile:


----------



## lovemeparis

*Replacing the old ones...*

^^^^^^

Professor, I hope that you are talking about SHOES...:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:


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## medwards

My dearest J, what else could I have possibly meant?


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## lovemeparis

*Those Little Secrets...*

"We all have our little secrets"

So what are yours, Professor, to keep those well worn and well cared for impeccable?:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:


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## medwards

Oh yes, and here is a pair of casual black calf Cleverley monkstraps. Not a terribly good set of photos (they don't do the finish justice ) but you should get the idea :

https://img37.imageshack.us/i/picturemonks002.jpg/

https://img228.imageshack.us/i/picturemonks003.jpg/


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## Gurdon

*Saw some nice shoes today*

Mr. Glasgow was in Beverly Hills this weekend and among Cleverley's new designs I saw a very nice pair of monks with a covered buckle.

My new button boots are almost tweeked and I should get the right one soon. When they are reunited I will endeavor to take and post photos.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## Mr. Chatterbox

medwards said:


> Oh yes, and here is a pair of casual black calf Cleverley monkstraps. Not a terribly good set of photos (they don't do the finish justice ) but you should get the idea :
> 
> https://img202.imageshack.us/g/picturemonks002.jpg/
> 
> https://img227.imageshack.us/i/picturemonks003.jpg/
> 
> https://img168.imageshack.us/i/picturemonks002.jpg/


I fear the photographs must not do them justice. Can you post some better images? These are a tad indistinct on my monitor.

I do have two questions, however. Does Cleverley use the same last for your oxford shoes as it does for monkstraps and slip-ons? What makes this particular monkstrap design "casual?"


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## medwards

*Cleverley Monkstraps*



Mr. Chatterbox said:


> I fear the photographs must not do them justice. Can you post some better images? These are a tad indistinct on my monitor.
> 
> I do have two questions, however. Does Cleverley use the same last for your oxford shoes as it does for monkstraps and slip-ons? What makes this particular monkstrap design "casual?"


Yes, I concur that the images are not terribly helpful. I will try to post some better pictures this weekend. Cleverley uses the same last for my oxford shoes and my monkstraps; they use a different last for slip-ons. I am not sure there is anything specific that makes this pair of monks "casual." To me, monkstraps are always for casual wear and this very simple version seems best suited for such attire. Of course, there are those who look at this style differently and find it somewhat staid...and certainly acceptable with business attire. That simply isn't how I wear them. To each his own.


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## medwards

Perhaps these images are better?

https://img191.imageshack.us/i/picturemonks2001.jpg/https://img526.imageshack.us/i/picturemonks2003.jpg/


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## GWM 1978

Sir: I believe that you have the most beautiful collection of shoes that I've ever seen. Might I enquire about what subject it is that you are a Professor of?


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## Mr. Chatterbox

medwards said:


> Yes, I concur that the images are not terribly helpful. I will try to post some better pictures this weekend. Cleverley uses the same last for my oxford shoes and my monkstraps; they use a different last for slip-ons. I am not sure there is anything specific that makes this pair of monks "casual." To me, monkstraps are always for casual wear and this very simple version seems best suited for such attire. Of course, there are those who look at this style differently and find it somewhat staid...and certainly acceptable with business attire. That simply isn't how I wear them. To each his own.


They certainly don't look "staid" to me! I find them quite jaunty.


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## medwards

GWM 1978 said:


> Sir: I believe that you have the most beautiful collection of shoes that I've ever seen. Might I enquire about what subject it is that you are a Professor of?


Thank you. Politics and public policy.


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## medwards

Mr. Chatterbox said:


> They certainly don't look "staid" to me! I find them quite jaunty.


I'm not sure that I (or my footwear) have ever been termed "jaunty" before, but I'll take that as a compliment.


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## lovemeparis

*200 years Russian reindeer leather*



> hhmmm russian calf would be awesome too some of them are sort of beachnut color too


My Dear Professor M, do you mean the leather found from a sunken ship?

https://www.luxist.com/2010/02/04/g-j-cleverley-offers-bags-made-with-leather-from-a-sunken-ship/

If it is, I wonder how much it would cost!!!


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