# Cooking on Thanksgiving



## Snow Hill Pond

My family and I are staying home this Thanksgiving instead of traveling to eat dinner with my side of the family. For our dinner, my wife has graciously volunteered to cook everything except the turkey and dressing.

I'm happy to cook the bird and actually am looking forward to the task. Am I willingly walking into the lion's den? I'm assuming that the bird should be pretty easy to cook, and if we have plenty of gravy, that'll take care of any dryness issues. Are there any cooking tips that anyone is willing to share?


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## Shaver

Pretty easy to cook _*if*_ you know what you are doing.

Salgy is the man for this one, but in the interim here are some points to be thinking about:

https://www.myrecipes.com/holidays-and-occasions/thanksgiving-recipes/turkey-101-10000001678095/

https://www.myrecipes.com/menus/7-holiday-cooking-mistakes-00420000002268/


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## drlivingston

Do it manly, fry it outdoors! Nice and juicy... easy as can be. 
P.S. Don't set the house on fire.


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## Snow Hill Pond

drlivingston said:


> Do it manly, fry it outdoors! Nice and juicy... easy as can be.
> P.S. Don't set the house on fire.


OK! I'll have 911 on hold.


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## JoshuaNY

I am of the mind, if you can roast a chicken you can roast a turkey. It is just bigger. 
I always keep plenty of turkey stock on hand. You can always pour some of it over the carved turkey to keep it moist if needed.

I have heard a grilled Turkey comes out pretty great, I have yet to try it though.


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## ada8356

Make sure to start thawing early enough!


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## Snow Hill Pond

JoshuaNY said:


> I have heard a grilled Turkey comes out pretty great, I have yet to try it though.


I was thinking about a similar option...slow roasting the turkey on the Weber grill. The weather should be sunny and relatively warm (mid 50s). So maintaining the heat shouldn't be that hard. I haven't tried it before, but I think it could work. Plus it would free up oven space for the wifey. Famous last words...What's the worst that could happen?


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## ada8356

If you are thinking about using the grill, this guy has some pretty good stuff:

https://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/chicken_turkey_duck/ultimate_smoked_turkey.html


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## hardline_42

It's not too difficult to roast a bird. I like to rub an herb/butter mixture (parsley, sage and thyme; rosemary if you're feeling Garfunkely) under the skin, rub the outside of the skin with lemon juice and sprinkle it with salt for a crispy skin. I don't stuff with stuffing (I cook it separately). Instead, I stuff the cavity with whatever fruit I have on hand. Cover with aluminum foil, cook it approx. 20 min. per pound and remove foil for the last half hour or so. Make sure to let it rest before carving (which is a whole other art unto itself).


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## ada8356

Alton Brown also has an excellent video on cooking Turkey. Google will help you locate it.


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## nolan50410

The secret to keeping it moist is to brine. After going to brined turkey several years back, all regular roasted turkey tastes bland and dry.


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## Snow Hill Pond

hardline_42 said:


> It's not too difficult to roast a bird. I like to rub an herb/butter mixture (parsley, sage and thyme; rosemary if you're feeling Garfunkely) under the skin, rub the outside of the skin with lemon juice and sprinkle it with salt for a crispy skin. I don't stuff with stuffing (I cook it separately). Instead, I stuff the cavity with whatever fruit I have on hand. Cover with aluminum foil, cook it approx. 20 min. per pound and remove foil for the last half hour or so. Make sure to let it rest before carving (which is a whole other art unto itself).


Thank you. This sounds pretty easy.


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## Snow Hill Pond

ada8356 said:


> Alton Brown also has an excellent video on cooking Turkey. Google will help you locate it.


Thanks for the grilling link and this tip. Looks like I've some research to do.


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## Snow Hill Pond

nolan50410 said:


> The secret to keeping it moist is to brine. After going to brined turkey several years back, all regular roasted turkey tastes bland and dry.


Yes, I agree. Do you use salt and sugar for the brine? Or do you do something different?


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## nolan50410

Salt and brown sugar are 2 must haves for a brine. I've had delicious birds that have used different combos of iced tea, apple cider, bourbon, and honey. You need plenty of aromatics like rosemary and thyme.


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## salgy

SHP - a lot of good advice here... let me weigh in on a few items...

1. you have the necessary grilling skills to do it on the grill... follow your steps used in your sirloin method i helped you with.. hardline gave you the correct timing (and actually, his whole process sounded good to me)... resting is necessary and the "trick" is to let it rest 1.5 minutes per pound

2. brining is recommended *** _only if the bird you have purchased has not been "enhanced" already!_ *** - check the packaging... there should be no ingredient other than turkey on the label... if there is, it has already been "enhanced" and you run the risk of salty turkey... if turkey is the only ingredient, i have a dynamite jack daniels brine that is bad a$$ with poultry & pork:

2 ounces kosher salt
2 tablespoons honey
.25 teaspoon garlic powder
1 bay leaf 
4 sprigs of thyme (fresh)
1 ounce sliced onion
3 cups water
1 cup jack daniels

method is simple... boil everything except booze, let boil 2 minutes, cool down 5 minutes, add booze & let cool 20-30 minutes before putting anything in it... you would probably need to double this for a 20ish pound bird... brine for 24 hours, pull out, pat dry & refrigerate uncovered a minimum of 12 hours before cooking...

let me know if you need anything else


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## Snow Hill Pond

salgy said:


> SHP - a lot of good advice here... let me weigh in on a few items...
> 
> 1. you have the necessary grilling skills to do it on the grill... follow your steps used in your sirloin method i helped you with.. hardline gave you the correct timing (and actually, his whole process sounded good to me)... resting is necessary and the "trick" is to let it rest 1.5 minutes per pound
> 
> 2. brining is recommended *** _only if the bird you have purchased has not been "enhanced" already!_ *** - check the packaging... there should be no ingredient other than turkey on the label... if there is, it has already been "enhanced" and you run the risk of salty turkey... if turkey is the only ingredient, i have a dynamite jack daniels brine that is bad a$$ with poultry & pork:
> 
> 2 ounces kosher salt
> 2 tablespoons honey
> .25 teaspoon garlic powder
> 1 bay leaf
> 4 sprigs of thyme (fresh)
> 1 ounce sliced onion
> 3 cups water
> 1 cup jack daniels
> 
> method is simple... boil everything except booze, let boil 2 minutes, cool down 5 minutes, add booze & let cool 20-30 minutes before putting anything in it... you would probably need to double this for a 20ish pound bird... brine for 24 hours, pull out, pat dry & refrigerate uncovered a minimum of 12 hours before cooking...
> 
> let me know if you need anything else


Thank you Salgy! Excellent advice, and as always very much appreciated. I'm getting psyched to do this.


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## ada8356

If you are short or time (or a little lazy) places like Williams-Sonoma and Sur La Table and I'm sure others have brine kits that you can purchase complete with brining ingredients and usually a monster zip lock bag which will make the process a little easier.


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## salgy

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Thank you Salgy! Excellent advice, and as always very much appreciated. I'm getting psyched to do this.


Let us know how it turns out!


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## blairrob

hardline_42 said:


> It's not too difficult to roast a bird. I like to rub an herb/butter mixture (parsley, sage and thyme; rosemary if you're feeling Garfunkely) under the skin, rub the outside of the skin with lemon juice and sprinkle it with salt for a crispy skin. I don't stuff with stuffing (I cook it separately). *Instead, I stuff the cavity with whatever fruit I have on hand.* Cover with aluminum foil, cook it approx. 20 min. per pound and remove foil for the last half hour or so. Make sure to let it rest before carving (which is a whole other art unto itself).


 Hardline, could you expand on that a bit please? When do you remove it, why, the effect on flavour, etc?

An old English trick from Brittany is to cover the bird with bacon, thus allowing the bacon fat to keep the meat moist. It does not change the flavour of the turkey and leaves a lovely crisp bacon snack for those that like it, which seems to be pretty much everybody on any internet forum I've been to :eek2:.


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## salgy

It is worth mentioning to anyone else reading this thread, if your turkey was enhanced by the manufacturer, you can still follow the above recipe, just omit the salt... It won't be the "same", but you will impart some flavors to the bird... Anytime you are dealing with a brined bird, whether enhanced by the manufacturer or brined yourself, the 12 hour uncovered in the fridge helps with the final products skin staying crispy... Vessels for brining should be plastic or glass (stainless steel if you must use a pot) never aluminum... I find that igloo coolers meant for beverages (think Gatorade coolers on the side lines of sporting events) are ideal...


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## salgy

blairrob said:


> Hardline, could you expand on that a bit please? When do you remove it, why, the effect on flavour, etc?


Blairrob, the fruit (or veggies) put inside the carcass of the bird will cook during the cooking process & the flavored steam generated will help flavor your turkey from the inside out... i don't know what fruit exactly Mr. Hardline has used, but lemons & thyme with chicken is great, i usually throw apples, sage & onion in with a turkey... would go great with that jack daniels brine... it wont give you a major addition of flavor, just subtle undertones... feel free to leave it in for the entire cooking time, just remove it before you turn the carcass into turkey stock for soup!


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## blairrob

salgy said:


> Blairrob, the fruit (or veggies)...


Thank you! :thumbs-up:


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## phyrpowr

salgy said:


> Blairrob, the fruit (or veggies) put inside the carcass of the bird will cook during the cooking process & the flavored steam generated will help flavor your turkey from the inside out... i don't know what fruit exactly Mr. Hardline has used, but lemons & thyme with chicken is great, i usually throw apples, sage & onion in with a turkey... would go great with that jack daniels brine... it wont give you a major addition of flavor, just subtle undertones... feel free to leave it in for the entire cooking time, just remove it before you turn the carcass into turkey stock for soup!


A friend who is an expert on foul puts a fork pierced orange (or two lemons) inside his, nice hint of flavor and releases moisture as it cooks


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## hardline_42

blairrob said:


> Hardline, could you expand on that a bit please? When do you remove it, why, the effect on flavour, etc?
> 
> An old English trick from Brittany is to cover the bird with bacon, thus allowing the bacon fat to keep the meat moist. It does not change the flavour of the turkey and leaves a lovely crisp bacon snack for those that like it, which seems to be pretty much everybody on any internet forum I've been to :eek2:.


Salgy has pretty much covered it. The fruit in the cavity is only there to lend a subtle hint of flavor to the meat as it cooks. I like to use oranges, lemons (more often with chicken), apples, pears etc. An onion or two sounds like a good idea also. With regards to the bacon trick, it's quite well known among hunters to keep migratory birds (with very little fat) from drying out as they cook. Since I'm the only one in my family that likes bacon, I try to avoid the temptation :tongue2:. I've had good results with the method I mentioned above when cooking farm-raised turkey.


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## salgy

Bacon wrapped turkey... Like this:


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## blairrob

salgy said:


> Bacon wrapped turkey... Like this:


It should _properly_ be done in a twill weave.


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## WouldaShoulda

...and oyster stuffing!!


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## Snow Hill Pond

salgy said:


> Bacon wrapped turkey... Like this:


Oh my gosh, that is comprehensively wrapped bird.


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## Snow Hill Pond

salgy said:


> Let us know how it turns out!


Project Gobble Gobble has commenced. Brining is underway...


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## salgy

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Project Gobble Gobble has commenced. Brining is underway...


Good to hear! Did you end up using the Jack Daniels brine? Or something different?


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## Snow Hill Pond

salgy said:


> Good to hear! Did you end up using the Jack Daniels brine? Or something different?


Yes, with one modification. Please forgive me, but being a Kentucky boy, I replaced the Jack Daniels with Marker's Mark.


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## salgy

^ I'll allow it!


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## Miket61

When my grandfather (who, coincidentally, lived in Cresco as a boy) passed away in 1987, we realized that no one else in the family like dark turkey meat. 

Switching to just a turkey breast was the best thing we ever did. No worrying about mysterious bags of stuff, one of which always turns up when you're starting to carve it. No fighting with bones. No throwing out parts you don't like.

In fact, it's so simple (we baste it with olive oil and spices and keep it covered with aluminum foil until the last half hour) that we now have one several times a year.


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## WouldaShoulda

^^^

I'll admit that is good, but you don't get the wow factor!!


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## salgy

blairrob said:


> It should _properly_ be done in a twill weave.


I will be waiting for your photos!


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## drlivingston

Miket61 said:


> we realized that no one else in the family like dark turkey meat.


Heresy!! I only eat the dark meat.


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## salgy

drlivingston said:


> Heresy!! I only eat the dark meat.


+1... its were all the flavor is... plus, without a carcass, you miss out on the oyster... the oyster, for those who don't know it, is a round, oyster shaped piece of the thigh that sits about middle of the back... ordinarily, when the thighs are removed during carving, the oyster remains on the spine... i always refereed to it as "the chef's snack" since most people don't know its missing!


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## hardline_42

salgy said:


> +1... its were all the flavor is... plus, without a carcass, you miss out on the oyster... the oyster, for those who don't know it, is a round, oyster shaped piece of the thigh that sits about middle of the back... ordinarily, when the thighs are removed during carving, the oyster remains on the spine... i always refereed to it as "the chef's snack" since most people don't know its missing!


This is the sole reason why I honed my carving skills to expert level. To ensure that I'd be asked to carve the bird every time and snag the oysters like a ninja (I insist on never carving the bird at the table).


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## WouldaShoulda

^^^

Excellent tip!!

Present bird, repair to kitchen for carving, bring back to table.


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## ada8356

My favorite part about using a whole bird is that it's the one time a year I get to pull out my electric Cuisnart carving knife!


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## salgy

WouldaShoulda said:


> Present bird, repair to kitchen for carving, bring back to table.


exactly!

bad news? i have close to 1,000 POUNDS of turkey to cook tomorrow (40 turkeys each weighing between 22-25#!)...

good news? that's close to 80 oysters!


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## hardline_42

WouldaShoulda said:


> ^^^
> 
> Excellent tip!!
> 
> Present bird, repair to kitchen for carving, bring back to table.


Aside from the bonus of the oysters, it's also much easier and more efficient to remove the breasts whole and carve them across the grain (way "moistier" this way) but it's decidedly less ceremonial than the parallel-to-grain "presentation cut" done at the table that looks pretty but wastes a ton of meat.


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## salgy

I actually just PM'd our OP with a few words of encouragement, complete with a step by step guide how to easily butcher a turkey... I will try to copy & paste it here if anyone's interested... Might have to split it into 2 posts because I seem to lack the security clearances to post more than 2 pictures on a post


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## salgy

salgy said:


> I actually just PM'd our OP with a few words of encouragement, complete with a step by step guide how to easily butcher a turkey... I will try to copy & paste it here if anyone's interested... Might have to split it into 2 posts because I seem to lack the security clearances to post more than 2 pictures on a post


for those interested, here is an excerpt from the PM i just sent Snow Hill Pond:

1. cooking your bird properly: we have discussed the brining process & the cooking time per pound, but what we haven't touched on are the specifics... you are going to want your grill to maintain a temperature of 300-350* for the duration... if the turkey came with a timer in it, throw it out... there is a salmonella risk in undercooked turkey, but the salmonella bacteria dies at 163*, in order to cover their a$$es, the FDA mandates to cook poultry to 180*, which is the temperature the timer is set to go off... during the resting process, the internal temperature will rise an additional 10 degrees... i would suggest to you to remove the turkey at 160* measured in the thigh, not the breast... aim for the inner thigh, towards the top of the bird:








i would not start temping until you have reached your time limit of 20 minutes per pound, the more holes you poke into the turkey, the more outlets you make for liquid to leech out...

2. proper carving technique: you may already have a method you like, but just in case, i have found this method, although messy for the carver, is the best/easiest/fastest way to handle a bird (any bird)... i usually wear rubber gloves during this process to keep my hands clean... the resting process will also cool the bird down enough that you should be able to do this using just a knife... 
-step1: remove wings - you should be able to pull the wings out of the shoulder socket, you might need the tip of your knife to cut through the tendon there

-step2: remove the thigh/leg - with the feet facing you, cut through the skin that is in between the thigh & breast, push the thigh towards the cutting board, dislocating the joint... tip the bird on its side and remove thigh... you may need your knife to remove it completely, but not always. hold the thigh and flex the leg, do you see where they connect? cut straight through this knee joint & reserve the leg. flip the thigh over (skin side down) on your cutting board, you should see both ends of the leg bone, with your knife draw a "line" with your knife from one end to the other... follow the bone around with your knife & remove the leg bone completely...

-step3: now you are looking at a heart shaped breast. with the bigger part towards you, cut just on either side of the center (the keel bone)... not deep, just an inch or so:








what you are going to do now is very slowly & carefully, start to cut the breast off the bone, one side at a time... let gravity help you, go as slow as you need to, and if needed use a small knife... 








this ^ picture is actually a very good representation of what your final butchering should look like...

-step4: finishing up - now you should have 2 boneless thighs, 2 boneless breasts, 2 wings & 2 legs... the wings and legs are ready for your platter, the breast and thigh should be sliced like this:








straight shot for the breast, but notice where the bone in the thigh is in relation to how you cut it...

*** if anyone runs into any snags tomorrow... PM me... i'll be glad to talk you off a ledge!


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## hardline_42

Salgy,

Thanks for the excerpt. Looking forward to the rest of it! I have a question regarding carving. I already carve the breast as you've illustrated, but I don't understand the reasoning behind cutting the thigh at such an angle (besides making for a neater diagram). Wouldn't it make more sense to cut it perpendicular to the thigh bone?


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## salgy

hardline_42 said:


> I don't understand the reasoning behind cutting the thigh at such an angle (besides making for a neater diagram). Wouldn't it make more sense to cut it perpendicular to the thigh bone?


great question... there is a reason (other than the neater picture!)... the thigh is made up of several muscles that intertwine (unlike the breast which is 2 muscles, running parallel to each other)... looking at the make up of the muscles itself, the diagrammed method will ensure the majority of these muscles are carved across the grain...


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## hardline_42

^^Amazing! The things we learn on this forum. Now I'm going to need a protractor to go with my carving set :icon_smile:


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## Snow Hill Pond

salgy said:


> I actually just PM'd our OP with a few words of encouragement, complete with a step by step guide how to easily butcher a turkey... I will try to copy & paste it here if anyone's interested... Might have to split it into 2 posts because I seem to lack the security clearances to post more than 2 pictures on a post


Excellent as always Mr Salgy! And I wish you well with the task you have tomorrow.


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## wrwhiteknight

Hi all - thank you so much, I feel very prepared for my first turkey tomorrow at my ex-pat party.

Two questions: 

1. I understand how to make the brine, but what do I do with it? (I'm sure this is obvious to others, so I apologize!)
2. How long do you cook the turkey (X pound to time ratio as I understand), and at what temperature?

Thanks all!


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## salgy

wrwhiteknight said:


> Hi all - thank you so much, I feel very prepared for my first turkey tomorrow at my ex-pat party.
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> 1. I understand how to make the brine, but what do I do with it? (I'm sure this is obvious to others, so I apologize!)
> 2. How long do you cook the turkey (X pound to time ratio as I understand), and at what temperature?
> 
> Thanks all!


wrwhiteknight:

1. you are coming a little late to the game as far as the brining process is concerned. a brine is basically a marinade that you would need to submerge your turkey (or any white meat) in for for 24 hours... the salt in the brine opens up the individual pores of the protein allowing the flavored liquid to penetrate into the structure of the muscle, leaving it flavorful & moist... A 12 hour uncovered (refrigerated) resting period is suggested to encourage a pelicle to form encouraging the exterior to crisp (pelicle is fancy talk, basically means drying of the exterior)

2. 350*F would be my suggested temperature for roasting, i would also cover the breast with foil until the final 30 minutes of cooking & baste, baste, baste... as often as possible... minimum of every hour, but every 30 minutes would be the best

let me know if you have any other questions


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## wrwhiteknight

Salgy, thanks so much. I will try and do the brine-ing tomorrow, as my Thanksgiving dinner isn't until Friday night. What is the pound to time ratio? I will have a 14 lb turkey.


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## salgy

Cooking time is 20 minutes per pound... Brining I would do 5 hours for the first pound & 1 hour for each addition pound, never to exceed 24 hours


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## Snow Hill Pond

*Turkey Debrief and Thank You Mr Salgy!*

I just wanted to post a followup on the Thanksgiving turkey. It was excellent. I followed Mr Salgy's brining recipe (with one modification as noted above) and cooking tips. The turkey was smoky, tender, and moist! I think it was the best turkey I've ever had and definitely the best one I've ever cooked. My wife was impressed as were my kids...heck, I was impressed!

*Thank you very much Mr Salgy for your tips and for your encouragement. I appreciate it immensely.
*
Other than the time it took to prep the turkey, this was a very easy process...almost foolproof. I would encourage anyone out there who is thinking about doing something like this to go ahead and try it. Follow Mr Salgy's instructions, and it should turn out great.

*DETAILS:

*Below are pre and post photos. I did tie the wings and drumsticks in an attempt to allow all of the bird to cook more evenly.















*The Turkey*: 12-lb Butterball Fresh Turkey
*Preparation:* I followed Mr Salgy's brining instructions: 24 hours in the brine, patted dry, and then 12 hours uncovered in the fridge. Before putting the turkey on the grill I rubbed it all over with olive oil.
*The Grill*: Using lump hardwood charcoal, I attempted to keep the temperature between 300-350F during the whole process, but it seemed like the grill was hovering more towards 275-325F. I didn't want to blast the meat, so I figured it was better to be a little low instead of too high. I also put wet hickory chunks on the hot coals to produce smoke.
*Cooking Time*: I cooked it for exactly 3 hours before I checked the internal temperature. When I did, at the thigh, it was at 165F, which is a little higher than Mr Salgy recommended. I was a little worried about that, but it didn't matter. The turkey was delicious.
*Appearance*: This was, by far, the most beautiful turkey I've ever seen. It was a beautiful deep rich brown. Mr Salgy, Thank you again, it must have been your brine that did the trick.
Overall, a very successful Thanksgiving! Thank you Mr Salgy. I wonder if it'll be too snowy to try this again for Christmas?


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## salgy

Snow Hill, glad I could help! Sounds like you & your family had a great thanksgiving... In addition to turkey, the same method can be employed with chicken & pork... For brining, smaller cuts are less forgiving, use the following time schedule: 5 hours for the first pound, 1 hour for each additional pound... Cooking times will vary, a whole chicken 60 minutes, pork butt 9ish hours... Add these to your sirloin & the snow hill pond family will be eating well year round!


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## Snow Hill Pond

salgy said:


> Snow Hill, glad I could help! Sounds like you & your family had a great thanksgiving... In addition to turkey, the same method can be employed with chicken & pork... For brining, smaller cuts are less forgiving, use the following time schedule: 5 hours for the first pound, 1 hour for each additional pound... Cooking times will vary, a whole chicken 60 minutes, pork butt 9ish hours... Add these to your sirloin & the snow hill pond family will be eating well year round!


Thank you again sir! Excellent advice.


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## salgy

wrwhiteknight said:


> Salgy, thanks so much. I will try and do the brine-ing tomorrow, as my Thanksgiving dinner isn't until Friday night. What is the pound to time ratio? I will have a 14 lb turkey.


Wrwhiteknight, how did your turkey turn out?


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## drlivingston

I thought this would be an appropriate time to resurrect this thread. Some of the AAAC members like Salgy have awesome culinary advice!


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## WouldaShoulda

Last year our host purchased a Kosher turkey.

As part of the process it comes already brined.

GOSH that was good!!


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## eagle2250

Note to self: After I finish this post, pull the turkey out of the freezer and transfer it to the fridge to begin the thawing process. More rapid approaches to thawing your birds can not only detract from the flavor of your final (cooking) effort, but might also prove hazardous to your health! :teacha:


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## MaxBuck

Attended a plant safety briefing the other day. The staff member responsible for the day's safety message urged everyone to make sure they thawed the turkey thoroughly before deep-frying it, citing some gruesome examples of what happens to people who don't. 

I haven't had deep-fried turkey and don't plan to, but the message was both eerie and frightening.


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## LordSmoke

Don't forget to remove the giblets that are probably in a plastic pouch inside the bird

This seems a near-universal oversight for first-time bird cookers.


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## eagle2250

MaxBuck said:


> Attended a plant safety briefing the other day. The staff member responsible for the day's safety message urged everyone to make sure they thawed the turkey thoroughly before deep-frying it, citing some gruesome examples of what happens to people who don't.
> 
> I haven't had deep-fried turkey and don't plan to, but the message was both eerie and frightening.


Indeed! Insure the bird is fully thawed and patted dry, before dropping it in the hot peanut oil, to reserve all that "snap, crackle, pop" action for your cereal bowl and not your turkey fryer!


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## drlivingston

I know that it is a zombie thread. However, it is a most appropriate zombie thread with some great information. Salgy doesn't post much currently. However, his culinary input is most valuable.


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## Duvel

I'm soaking the bird in milk and cognac 24 hours prior this year, then starting the roasting with a cup of cognac over the turnkey (breast side up), then basting from the juice produced over the roasting period. Also using fruit in the cavity, carrots and celery in the pan.

The wife and I also will be steeped in something but that's another story.


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