# My First Bespoke Experience - Ercole in Brooklyn



## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

I had commissioned my first bespoke article of clothing a few weeks ago, and today was my first fitting at Ercole, in Brooklyn, with Frank Sr.. After my last horrible experience with a NYC MTM outfit (I got my money back through my credit card) I was adiment about finding someone close, and to my luck, the one thing most complain about Ercole (its location) is ideal for me. Its a 5 minute car ride (about 10 Avenues up) from my home. I tried them out with some alterations and found them to be quite compitent, and very friendly, so I figured we'd give it a go.

In my first visit, Frank Jr. took some measurements and notes, and asked some basic questions. I told him I wanted a slim, three button, single breasted, dual vented blazer. I told him I wanted a very military inspired look with custom brass buttons (with the province of my ancestors-Basilicata, Italy - eblazened on them). We are using a nice Dormeuil navy year round fabric. Here are some pictures from my first fitting (as taken by my wife). I hope to document the entire process here for those who don';t really know how it works (like me).

So my first fitting was without any buttons, or any finishing, including the custom lining I picked out. Just the shell of the blazer. Frank said he thought 3.5 inch lapels would look good, and I wasn't sure at first, as I like things slimmer, but after the look of the jacket today, its growing on me.























































I hope to be adding more pictures of my second fitting, which will be with Frank Jr., on Monday. If anyone who has any experience wants to point anything out, be my guest, I'd love to learn more about whats actually going on. If anyone has any questions for me, please ask, and I'll try to answer as best I can.


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## 11211 (Apr 17, 2008)

nice shape through body. based on your description, maybe see about narrower sleeves?


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## nmprisons (Mar 20, 2008)

what's the cost? where was your bad experience?


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## misterdonuts (Feb 15, 2008)

I'm glad your MTM ordeal is now concluded. The blazer looks rather nice, especially for a first fitting. 

I agree with the comment about making the sleeves a bit narrower, based on how they appear on the photos, which may have been taken before your guy took note of it.

You mentioned that it is meant to have a 3-button closure. Did you decide on the button stance? From the photos, it is not so obvious that it will be a 3-button.


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## cvac (Aug 6, 2006)

The sleeves seem to taper narrowly at the wrist. I assume they are wider at the top to accommodate a muscular build. I wouldn't change them.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

cvac said:


> The sleeves seem to taper narrowly at the wrist. I assume they are wider at the top to accommodate a muscular build. I wouldn't change them.


I'm not the most muscular guy (although I do 100 pushups and 100 tricep dips every day!) so I may ask him about narrowing the sleeves at the next fitting.

As far as the button stance goes, when I tried it on I was happy about how high the gorge? was, but now looking at it, I can see how it looks more like a two button. Sticking with the military inspired look, should the gorge be higher for a three button? Would it take away from that "look" if it were a two button? One of the problems with my MTM experience was when the first suit was finally ready, it was a lower gorged 3 button, which looked UGLY.


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## 11211 (Apr 17, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> I'm not the most muscular guy (although I do 100 pushups and 100 tricep dips every day!) so I may ask him about narrowing the sleeves at the next fitting.


add 100 pull ups and air squats to round it off!


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> I'm not the most muscular guy (although I do 100 pushups and 100 tricep dips every day!) so I may ask him about narrowing the sleeves at the next fitting.
> 
> As far as the button stance goes, when I tried it on I was happy about how high the gorge? was, but now looking at it, I can see how it looks more like a two button. Sticking with the military inspired look, should the gorge be higher for a three button? Would it take away from that "look" if it were a two button? One of the problems with my MTM experience was when the first suit was finally ready, it was a lower gorged 3 button, which looked UGLY.


I think you are confusing gorge for button stance. It was my understanding that gorge refered to the height where the notch (or Peak) of the lapel meets the collar. In other words: a shorter lapel/longer collar would mean a lower gorge; a longer lapel/shorter collar would mean a higher gorge.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

BTW Grossicone,

The jacket looks slick. Real slick. I say go either way on the sleeves, they look fine as is, but they'd look good narrower as well. I love that driving hat, too. I wear a tween driver all winter and was thinking about getting a white one for the summer. Now I'm going to do it... and kick it with my blazer.

Good work. Do you mind us asking the price you will pay for the blazer?


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## &Son (Feb 18, 2008)

Looks great if you ask me. I wouldn't worry too much about the sleeves being trimmer as long as the armhole is located high enough for your taste/comfort. Can't wait to see the next pics, thanks for sharing your experience with us!


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## cvac (Aug 6, 2006)

Re: the gorge and button stance, I would bring in jackets that fit me well, both 3 button and 2 button, and have him mark where the unfinished jacket's buttons would be. Then compare the jackets and decide how you want the gorge and buttons to be on the unfinished bespoke jacket.


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## Pulledpork (Jun 3, 2008)

I would have the sleeves narrowed a little, other than that I really like the cut. It looks like they do nice work.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks for the compliments guys...I will post the price when the finished product is pictured. As for the driving hat...H&M $6.50...

I called Frank Jr to ask about the custom buttons today, and he said the company would do initials but not specific crests......so I'm going to go with the Fleur de Lis emblem. He also asked if I could stop back today so he can get a look at the first fitting before the work is done for the second. I'll ask about the sleeve slimming (I wouldn't mind that) and the button stance. Thanks for the clarification on the gorge...


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## cvac (Aug 6, 2006)

If you really want family crest buttons, don't give up on them. You might be able to have them done somewhere at some point. Then you can just swap them for the others on your blazer.

Re: family crest items, the Del Toro company can do family crest velvet slippers, I believe.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

Looks good, even at this stage.

3 button? Looks more like 2 button at this stage, but still all to play for, I guess! 

I'm sure it will turn out fab!


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## fpatton (Apr 28, 2008)

That's going to look great! Very nice shape through the waist. Great choice going for the ticket/slanted pockets. Is there more flair-out from the waist down than normal? It's a good look.

Fred


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

fpatton said:


> That's going to look great! Very nice shape through the waist. Great choice going for the ticket/slanted pockets. Is there more flair-out from the waist down than normal? It's a good look.
> 
> Fred


Thanks! I don't know if its flair or my big butt...I played hockey my whole life so my thighs and behind are quite large...at least my wife likes it.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> Thanks! I don't know if its flair or my big butt...I played hockey my whole life so my thighs and behind are quite large...at least my wife likes it.


What are you talking about?

Eat a cheesburger before those shorts fall off.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

*My Second "First" Fitting*

OK, so I went to Ercole so Frank Jr could get a glimpse of the jacket on me. When I got there he realized that they had already begun working on the lining, so I actually got to try on the jacket piece by piece (should've taken pics. First he took the right side of the jacket and laid in flush against me so we could look at button positioning. He said he thought of maybe moving the top button up a half inch or so. he also told me that we can work that more specifically at a second fitting. The, we tried on the right sleeve and Frank Sr pinched a bit of fabric at the upper arm to make it a bit narrower. Very cool experience, I've never just tried on a "sleeve" before. He said the second fitting should be ready soon (by the end of the week) so I'm extremely pleased with how this is progressing compared to the last time out in MTM world. For the second fitting I'll be sure to have my lovely wife snap some more pics.

As for the cheeseburger...I can't do that tonight, but after a late day at Babies R Us I ordered some tasty Sherwerma. Yum.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

How much will it cost?
I used to live and work around Grand and Flatbush in Brooklyn and still know people there. That's about 10 miles away, but I drive all over NYC when I go there.

The broad lapels give you a good look, from what I see. It might be a tad retro/30's but not in a bad way... as if there was anything bad about that style.


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## CW Psmith (May 31, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> Thanks for the compliments guys...I will post the price when the finished product is pictured. As for the driving hat...H&M $6.50...


Very stylish...I wear one just like it :aportnoy:

About the blazer: looks very promising. Looking forward to see the next installment of this thread


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## sam (Sep 5, 2004)

My only suggestion would be to wear proper clothing when going for your fittings, not shorts. Both you and your tailor will have a better idea of the fit of your garment if you are wearing clothes underneath that are at least similar to what you would actually wear with the jacket. Also, I think it shows respect to your tailor and his craft when you are properly dressed.


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## JayJay (Oct 8, 2007)

sam said:


> My only suggestion would be to wear proper clothing when going for your fittings, not shorts. Both you and your tailor will have a better idea of the fit of your garment if you are wearing clothes underneath that are at least similar to what you would actually wear with the jacket.


Thanks for posting pics and documenting your experience. It's great to see the jacket in its stages of development.

I've found that dressing in clothing similar to what I'm going to wear with the garment does help give me a better idea of what it'll look like when I wear it.

Again, nice work!


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

what made you pick ercole and not martin greenfield who is in brooklyn as well?


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

As far as the clothing goes...it was 97 degrees, and we were schlepping around the infant all day. As much as I would have loved to wear "proper" pants, that day it wasn't possible. I did bring a dress shirt to wear, and for the second fitting, will be wearing trousers as well. 

As far as Ercole vs. Martin Greenfield...Ercole is so close to me, literally 5 minutes, and I don't really know who Martin Greenfield is...besides, Frank's a paison like me!


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

So how did you end up with schwarma?


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

shirtguy said:


> So how did you end up with schwarma?


In my hood, I have some of the best Middle Eastern places...delic!


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

whats the bottom line on the jacket how much?


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## Midnight Blue (Apr 22, 2007)

sam said:


> My only suggestion would be to wear proper clothing when going for your fittings, not shorts. Both you and your tailor will have a better idea of the fit of your garment if you are wearing clothes underneath that are at least similar to what you would actually wear with the jacket. Also, I think it shows respect to your tailor and his craft when you are properly dressed.


my thoughts exactly


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Midnight Blue said:


> my thoughts exactly


OK, OK, I get it...go dressed a bit more "professionally". Well I did today for fitting number two. :icon_smile_big:


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

*Second Fitting*

OK, so it was nearly 100 degrees and humid only as New York City can be, but I managed to suck it up and bring a pair of trousers and dress shirt with me to Ercole's for my second fitting. The jacket is looking FANTASTIC! I also wound up leaving with 2 bespoke shirts in teh works, a blue bengal stripe with a white collar and a blue and white small check shirt. Her are the pictures from today...we moved the button stance up a bit and had the upper sleeve taken in a little. Also the sides were taken in a bit more, but the jacket fit so well, like a glove. I never knew there could be such a difference between RTW, MTM, and this...like butter.
































































We're going with Fleur de Lis brass buttons on the front and sleeve. The lining is a Burgundy with Navy polka dot. Should be ready before Aug 2.

And oh, one final edit...please don't lecture me about the flip flops. It was freakin hot as hell today.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

I'd lecture you about the flip-flops if you were at the final fitting for a suit because it would matter then (adjusting trouser leg length/break is easier when you're wearing the right shoes). As it's just a blazer, you get a free pass! 

The blazer's really taking shape now and looks very good. It seems like Ercole is providing you with a wonderful introduction to bespoke.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Holdfast said:


> I'd lecture you about the flip-flops if you were at the final fitting for a suit because it would matter then (adjusting trouser leg length/break is easier when you're wearing the right shoes). As it's just a blazer, you get a free pass!
> 
> The blazer's really taking shape now and looks very good. It seems like Ercole is providing you with a wonderful introduction to bespoke.


The soles of my feet is where I like the bottom of my trousers. So, flipflops are fine. Of course other people may like the bottom of the trousers somewhere else.

Nice looking coat.


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## lichMD (Jun 30, 2005)

*Navy Blazer*

I think this process is quite fascinating, makes me wish I'd done the same when I go to my tailor. Thanks for sharing the pics and the process with us.
I'm also curious with the final cost of the blazer, wonder how it compares with my tailor.
Cheers


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

shirtguy said:


> whats the bottom line on the jacket how much?


It doesn't look like anyone is going to answer this. I was curious as well.


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## cvac (Aug 6, 2006)

Why don't you guys just call Ercole? My guess is it won't be cheap.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Interesting. I thought it was going to be a three button rolled to the middle...


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

*How Much It Cost*



cvac said:


> Why don't you guys just call Ercole? My guess is it won't be cheap.


When its finished, I'll let you guys decide how much you'd be willing to pay for it (considering you've seen all the work and the details from the pics). I will post the price when the coat is finished, with a final set of photos. If you guys want to start throwing out numbers now thats fine, but I want to hold on revealing that until the blazer is done. Frank told me it will be finished before they go away on vacation (Aug 2). So there's one last fitting and then pick up day.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Jovan said:


> Interesting. I thought it was going to be a three button rolled to the middle...


Nope, reg 3 button, I'm not crazy of the roll look.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

To each their own. (You're missing out!)


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

*Silhouette*

How would you guys classify the silhouette of this jacket?


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

The blazer was finished and I picked it up yesterday...its beautiful. Unfortunately, because of the fire at my place, all of my clothes are at the cleaners for a while. I am expecting a shipment of replacement clothing from JCrew at the hotel today, so when I get that (a few shirts and ties included) I will post some pictures. Then you guys can try and guess the cost...if you want, or I could just tell you.


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## satorstyle (Jan 2, 2007)

The jacket looks great! Can't wait for the finished product.


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## usndave03 (Jul 24, 2008)

This may sound like a dumb question...but what is the difference between MTM and Bespoke?


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

usndave03 said:


> This may sound like a dumb question...but what is the difference between MTM and Bespoke?


Do search on this site. This question has been discussed to death.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

usndave03 said:


> This may sound like a dumb question...but what is the difference between MTM and Bespoke?


Usually, Made To Measure is where the tailor takes your measurements and makes a standard suit using those measurements, based on a standard suit template. So you're getting a suit similar to a model they already make, but custom fitted.

Bespoke usually means the suit is completely custom, they create a template based on your specifications, everything is made to order. Usually you only do bespoke if you want a very specific style or fit that the company doesn't normally make.

Think of it as the difference between picking a house to be built out of a book of home plans, or hiring an architect to design you a house.


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## cpac (Mar 25, 2005)

usndave03 said:


> This may sound like a dumb question...but what is the difference between MTM and Bespoke?


It's the subject of much controversy.

I think the best way to think of it (and to avoid silly arguments) is to think of clothing as being somewhere along a sliding scale of customization:

On one end, you've got ready to wear/off the rack garmets which were not made with any specific customer in mind. These, of course, can be tailored to better fit particular individuals.

Next, are the "special order" sorts of places which allow you to order an otherwise RTW/OTR garmet in a special or unusual size or, in the case of a suit, with a non-standard drop. It's like being alowed to by separates when the suit is ordinarily only sold as a suit.

Next, are the "m2m" programs where you can select the fabric and model of jacket to be made from among those the maker offers, along with some details. Usually these involve an initial measuring session from which the coat (and pants) are all-but finished leaving you with a garmet that can still be tweaked, but only about to the same degree as an OTR at that point.

Next are the more details m2m programs (e.g. Mr. Ned) that may still use a "standard" pattern, but involve multiple fittings while the jacket is still really being put together (i.e. before sleeves are attached, and before the front(s) are attached to the back). Details and fabrics are completely wide open and this obviously offers a bit more ability to customize the fit to the purchaser.

Finally are what many consider to be "true" bespoke: tailors that create a unique pattern for each customer, and then build the suit off of that pattern, complete with multiple fittings, etc.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

rgrossicone said:


> OK, so it was nearly 100 degrees and humid only as New York City can be
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that going to be the final fit for the shirt/jacket sleeves?


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## Picolino (Jul 10, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


>


Look Flip Flops...ready, go...


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## Simon Myerson (Nov 8, 2007)

I think that Blazer looks wonderful. It needs a small adjustment in the back and pressing. He has your shoulder pitch spot on - one of the most difficult things to do and the one that is most likely to sort out MTM and Bespoke. The fit is close but smart and the 3 buttons is classically correct. Love it. 

Also think the shirts are great choices - classic but not dull. You can introduce all sorts of colour with the ties. 

Enjoy - sorry about the fire but post some pics when your camera is returned, and the reaction should help you feel better


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Ironically, the camera was in a beach bag in the trunk of my car outside as we had planned a beach excursion that day...will have photos taken tonight, although the shirts I have with me are a little long in the sleeve (just got them today) and they'll need to be shortened 2 inches.

As far as the sleeves in the previous picture, they were unbuttoned at that time, when he adjusted the length of the jacket sleeve we buttoned them up...hopefully pictures tonight.

To me MTM and bespoke differ where as in MTM you get a pattern with your measurements, bespoke the tailor literally cuts your fabric by hand and then sews all the pieces together, for a most perfect fit.


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## Phigment (Jul 23, 2008)

rgrossicone said:


> When its finished, I'll let you guys decide how much you'd be willing to pay for it (considering you've seen all the work and the details from the pics). I will post the price when the coat is finished, with a final set of photos. If you guys want to start throwing out numbers now thats fine, but I want to hold on revealing that until the blazer is done. Frank told me it will be finished before they go away on vacation (Aug 2). So there's one last fitting and then pick up day.


I won't spoil the fun but I did see that rgrossicone ballparked the price of the coat on another thread. Did that price hold up even though you are not getting the custom family crest buttons?


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Phigment said:


> I won't spoil the fun but I did see that rgrossicone ballparked the price of the coat on another thread. Did that price hold up even though you are not getting the custom family crest buttons?


Yes, they would have added a few hundred to the price...but the company wouldn't press them...


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## Phigment (Jul 23, 2008)

Anxiously awaiting pics of the final product...


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## Phigment (Jul 23, 2008)

Hoping to see it soon. Can you tell I'm anxious to get one made?


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

*FINALLY, Here It Is...*

So, here are the pics from yesterday, my first day wearing the blazer. As you can see, my daughter wasn't very thrilled by it...




























and sorry for slouching in this one...










And then, what my daughter thought of it...










I'd love to hear what you guys think. Like I've said before, I've never done this before, and know a hell of a lot less than most here. Also, if you'd like to guess the price I'll get a big thumbs up to the winner...there was a lot of hand stitching on this one, so the price wasn't too low.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

I'll be the first to guess --> $1,500.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

Looks very nice!

I probably would have thought about going 0.25" shorter on sleeves and 0.25-0.5" shorter on the jacket body (although maybe not, judging by the side view), but it certainly looks great as is. Wear it in good health!


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Looks great! Mad props! The fabric looks beautiful - what is it? I'm curious what forumites would choose for such a gamrnet that will (presumably) see heavy use. I say you paid $1200. Fantastic button stance!


BTW I went and bought a white driving cap because of you, Grossicone.


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## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

Looks amazing. I'm going to go with $1,300.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

The Louche said:


> Looks great! Mad props! The fabric looks beautiful - what is it? I'm curious what forumites would choose for such a gamrnet that will (presumably) see heavy use. I say you paid $1200. Fantastic button stance!
> 
> BTW I went and bought a white driving cap because of you, Grossicone.


Thanks Louche! I thought the cleaners messed mine up (from the fire) but alas they did not. The fabric on the coat is Dormeuil. I'll post more detailed photos of the hand stitching in a few and I'll also post the buttons.


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## Simon Myerson (Nov 8, 2007)

Excellent look - you must be delighted. I would go with Holdfast and shorten the jacket slightly (not the sleeves though) but I have noticed that my couple of jackets from the US are both slightly longer than I would expect. May just be a cultural thing, because yours looks really good. 

As a father of 4 little girls, can I say that yours is cool with it. Otherwise she'd be screaming her head off 

PS: love the dog.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

PPS: You have a huge TV...


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## Mathguy (May 16, 2006)

I think it looks great! Very nice fit. I wouldn't change the coat at all. Would like to see a little shirt cuff showing but that looks more like your shirt cuff is caught up in your sleeve or the shirt sleeves are a bit short. As a fellow teacher I have to ask; can you move your arms? Could you write on a board easily without the collar coming up your neck?

Well worth the wait.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

I wouldn't change anything.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Mathguy said:


> I think it looks great! Very nice fit. I wouldn't change the coat at all. Would like to see a little shirt cuff showing but that looks more like your shirt cuff is caught up in your sleeve or the shirt sleeves are a bit short. As a fellow teacher I have to ask; can you move your arms? Could you write on a board easily without the collar coming up your neck?
> 
> Well worth the wait.


Thankfully our school is moving away from "boards" as we knew them when we were kids. I use a Smartboard (its Canadian) more often than not where the work is all done from my laptop with limited use of the board. Its GREAT, and especially for Math. I think the shirt was stuffed up there, I was in such a rush Monday morning with an importnat meeting scheduled and breakfast with my mom...hope you have an easy time getting back in the swing if you've not yet begun!


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Yes Grossicone, Dormeuil - but what kind of Dormeuil? Is it a worsted? Serge? A super?


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Looks great! In fact it looks better than I expected based on the initial photos.

One question: Is it me or are the sleeve buttons farther off the cuff than one would typically expect?


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

stfu said:


> Looks great! In fact it looks better than I expected based on the initial photos.
> 
> One question: Is it me or are the sleeve buttons farther off the cuff than one would typically expect?


Look closer STFU - the first one in is unbottoned, bespoke style...


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## lee_44106 (Apr 10, 2006)

In the third picture, the view from the back, there is a slight roll just underneath the collar. From your side profiles the roll is not present, so I think it's just a matter of posture in that particular picture.

The jacket looks wonderful and the fit is spot-on, as expected of a bespoke.

When you post followup pictures, I'd be interested in seeing the following details:

Lapel buttonhole
underside of collar
detail shot of one of the buttonholes
Stitch work shot of the inside armhole


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

The Louche said:


> Look closer STFU - the first one in is unbottoned, bespoke style...


Right you are! Of Course! Seeing three I assumed three. You can clearly see the unbuttoned 1st button.

Carry on!


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## Observer57 (Nov 25, 2007)

I think it is a lovely blazer and I wouldn't change a thing.

Wear it good health.


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## HISMES PARIS (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm normally not a 3-button fan, but I have to echo the previous comment about the button stance looking awesome. And since you haven't given anyone the thumbs-up yet, I'll go out on a limb and say $1800.


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Someone has already gotten the big thumbs up, in a PM.

The total cost was $1500. 

I will post the pics with the details tomorrow.


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## Observer57 (Nov 25, 2007)

I think the Military-inspired theme cam through as well.

Specifically, the button-stance, the brass and the taper around the waist are complimentary to this.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

rgrossicone said:


> Someone has already gotten the big thumbs up, in a PM.
> 
> The total cost was $1500.
> 
> I will post the pics with the details tomorrow.


Woohoo!:aportnoy: What's my prize?


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

not so fast who was your source?ic12337:


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

shirtguy said:


> not so fast who was your source?ic12337:


Some dude named Julio. What's your point? :icon_smile_wink:


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

That if this julio dude gave you the answer then you had privlaged info therefore you dont deserve the prize


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