# Best leather in the world?



## liang7079 (Apr 22, 2008)

Hi gents: Just curious but which company or country would you say produce the best leather (shoes, garments and accesories etc.) goods? Are brands like Hermes, Bottega Veneta, Ferragamo and Loewe the answers?


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Russia calf.


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## kelliw (Aug 13, 2008)

1786 Russian Reindeer Leather from Cleverley.


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

I would probably ask what famous bespoke makers use like Foster & Sons, G&G or the 5-6 that you could track down at https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/



JibranK said:


> Russia calf.


I'm curious, any reason?


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

It has been my experience that John Lobb (and Hermes) has the nicest leather. I've found Brioni and Kiton to be a notch below them.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

JibranK said:


> Russia calf.


N&L say it's the world's most wonderful:

https://www.newandlingwood.com/information.phtml

I'm a little freaked out by the idea that I'd be wearing Rudolph on my dogs, though. Plus, the fact it's spent almost two centuries lying on the bottom of the sea is just so . . . odd. Still, the shoes are something. Marvelous conversation pieces if nothing else.


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

It terms of RTW/MTO shoes, I would say John Lobb (Hermes)



kelliw said:


> 1786 Russian Reindeer Leather from Cleverley.


Due to the age and condition of the leather, is it not more likely to have cracks in the leather compared to the normal calfskin Cleverley use; not in terms of the leather sheet now, but after the shoe has be made and regularly worn.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

ToryBoy said:


> It terms of RTW/MTO shoes, I would say John Lobb (Hermes)
> 
> Due to the age and condition of the leather, is it not more likely to have cracks in the leather compared to the normal calfskin Cleverley use; not in terms of the leather sheet now, but after the shoe has be made and regularly worn.


In addition, for all its great qualities it was tanned to be book binding leather, not shoe leather. That makes it even more likely to crack during normal wear. Moisturize often.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Hmmm . . . so you're paying N&L ca. $1400 for shoes that are prone to crack. OK . . . . .


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

I would say Spain makes the best leather. However, the country's products are quite exclusive to the outside world.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

PJC in NoVa said:


> N&L say it's the world's most wonderful:
> 
> https://www.newandlingwood.com/information.phtml
> 
> I'm a little freaked out by the idea that I'd be wearing Rudolph on my dogs, though. Plus, the fact it's spent almost two centuries lying on the bottom of the sea is just so . . . odd. Still, the shoes are something. Marvelous conversation pieces if nothing else.


If my memory serves me well, the price on those shoes made from the 200 year old Russian reindeer hide, has come down considerably in the past year. Am I correct in that impression and if so, why? Any thoughts? I am still fascinated by the concept...if not the reality.


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## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

Connolly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connolly_Leather


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## Bracemaker (May 11, 2005)

Too big a question...depends on the purpose for which it is to be used.
I'll give you a few specifics:-
Pull up / oil dressed / cordovan then probably Horween
English Bridle probably Sedgewick
Suede - I think Charles Stead
Russia Calf - not telling where that comes from, except it was shipped from St Petersburg in1780...
etc etc

Connolly are no longer in business as tanners or finishers (at least, not that I am aware of).


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## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

Bracemaker said:


> Too big a question...depends on the purpose for which it is to be used.
> I'll give you a few specifics:-
> Pull up / oil dressed / cordovan then probably Horween
> English Bridle probably Sedgewick
> ...


Yeah, they went out of business about 10 years ago. They were in business for about as long as there were cows (about 150 years or so).

Connolly hides did not have that disclaimer about imperfections that you often see on leather garments. There were none.

I run a similar disclaimer on my e-mails:

_This e-mail is a natural product. The slight variations in spelling and_
_grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no way should be considered flaws or defects._


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## liang7079 (Apr 22, 2008)

Thanks for the reply gents, I've learnt alot (especially about the Russain calf/reindeer, didn't know it was THAT rare and exclusive).
I am trying to get opinions on whether leather goods (bags, belts, wallers etc) from Hermes and Loewe are really "the best in the world" as have been told by their sales and lots of their clients, or are there some smaller and more exclusive artisans/shops that provide even better leather and workmanship (exotic and calf/lamb). If you have suggestions on leather garments too please kindly also post them. (How are Seraphin and Zilli?)

I think I would be quite happy wearing EG, JL or Ferragamo Tremezza shoes wise...:icon_smile_big:


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## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

liang7079 said:


> Thanks for the reply gents, I've learnt alot (especially about the Russain calf/reindeer, didn't know it was THAT rare and exclusive).
> I am trying to get opinions on whether leather goods (bags, belts, wallers etc) from Hermes and Loewe are really "the best in the world" as have been told by their sales and lots of their clients, or are there some smaller and more exclusive artisans/shops that provide even better leather and workmanship (exotic and calf/lamb). If you have suggestions on leather garments too please kindly also post them. (How are Seraphin and Zilli?)
> 
> I think I would be quite happy wearing EG, JL or Ferragamo Tremezza shoes wise...:icon_smile_big:


I dated a Laplander (in the late 1970s, early 1980s) whose parents owned the largest herd of reindeer in the world (at that time). They were nomadic. When Chernobyl melted down the herd became worthless (as meat) and they lost almost everything. I would imagine that affected the reindeer hide prices too.

(I have not kept touch with her--she's nomadic, after all.)


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

JibranK said:


> Russia calf.





kelliw said:


> 1786 Russian Reindeer Leather from Cleverley.


You must be kidding me. I like my Russia Calf stuff but the story is more interesting than the leather.


PJC in NoVa said:


> N&L say it's the world's most wonderful:
> 
> https://www.newandlingwood.com/information.phtml
> 
> I'm a little freaked out by the idea that I'd be wearing Rudolph on my dogs, though.


Meh. Vermin. N&L raises the price 100 pounds every two years or so. I remember when they were 695 pounds. Cleverley is a lot more sane about the markup. They also are a lot cheaper if you want a Russia Calf belt or something.



Will said:


> In addition, for all its great qualities it was tanned to be book binding leather, not shoe leather.


+1


liang7079 said:


> Thanks for the reply gents, I've learnt alot (especially about the Russain calf/reindeer, didn't know it was THAT rare and exclusive).
> I am trying to get opinions on whether leather goods (bags, belts, wallers etc) from Hermes and Loewe are really "the best in the world" as have been told by their sales and lots of their clients, or are there some smaller and more exclusive artisans/shops that provide even better leather and workmanship (exotic and calf/lamb). If you have suggestions on leather garments too please kindly also post them. (How are Seraphin and Zilli?)
> 
> I think I would be quite happy wearing EG, JL or Ferragamo Tremezza shoes wise...:icon_smile_big:


Are you talking about leather tanneries or artisans actually making goods out of leather?

There are quite a few small artisans making high-quality products, but it's hard to compare them as few of us have tried a lot of them. Many people have said good things about April in Paris, a Frenchwoman living in SF. There are also quite a few people in France who seem to produce very nice stuff like Peter Charles, Ducas, Duret, Camille Fournet, Serge Amoruso and others, but I don't have personal experience with them. There are other people out there elsewhere whom few of us know about -- but how to judge?

Seraphin is excellent for leather jackets. So is Zilli, but the designs can be extremely dubious.

I think environmental regulations have made tanning much more difficult. Having read what can be involved and produced in the tanning processes, I can understand the reasoning for that. Hermes allegedly has stockpiled a vast assortment of different types of leathers of all varieties. It also owns its own tannery (although I believe it sources from other tanneries as well) and recently acquired a controlling interest in Roggwiller, which is a very good producer of exotic leathers such as alligator or stingray.

There used to be a few legendary tanneries, although some may no longer be in business, such as Freudenberg in Germany. Tanneries du Puy used to be regarded as one of the best tanneries as well. Charles Stead as Bracemaker says is one of the best for Suede. There's also Crack & Sons, whose name always makes me laugh.


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## nhorween (Jun 20, 2008)

RJman said:


> I think environmental regulations have made tanning much more difficult. Having read what can be involved and produced in the tanning processes, I can understand the reasoning for that.


Partly true. Some countries have more stringent regulations than others, but following these rules is important for obvious reasons in addition to just obeying the law.

Interesting thread! I'd love to see some more of the products that's leading to these conclusions.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Will said:


> In addition, for all its great qualities it was tanned to be book binding leather, not shoe leather. That makes it even more likely to crack during normal wear. Moisturize often.


Has any of it been used to bind books since it was retrieved?


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

AlanC said:


> Has any of it been used to bind books since it was retrieved?


Not that I have heard of, and someone even gave me the vanity book about the 1786 leather trove and the various uses to which it had been put. Folks have made furniture with it, cufflinks, leather accessories and shoes, watch straps and all varieties of leather bags and briefcases, but I haven't encountered it for books. The use would be quite expensive, especially as the same amount of leather could make lots of Russia Calf watchstraps that can be sold for $200 apiece.


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## Frog in Suit (Mar 27, 2007)

RJman said:


> There used to be a few legendary tanneries, although some may no longer be in business, such as Freudenberg in Germany.


When I ordered my first-ever pair of bespoke shoes from Foster & Son in July, I was told that the source for their calf leather was Freudenberg. However, I find from the company's website that "... between 1999 and 2002, Freudenberg sold its shoe activities (Tack, Elefanten) and closed the tannery, thus parting with leather production, its original business."

I wonder whether shoemakers such as Foster now work from non-renewed stock supplies (in which case, should I rush and order a lifetime supply of bespoke shoes, at the real risk of bankrupting my Dear Children :icon_pale: ?) or if someone else bought the tannery and still produces the same quality leather. Does anyone know? Could anyone tell us?

Frog in Suit


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

Frog in Suit said:


> ........I was told that the source for their calf leather was Freudenberg. However, I find from the company's website that "... between 1999 and 2002, Freudenberg sold its shoe activities (Tack, Elefanten) and closed the tannery, thus parting with leather production, its original business."


The leather production (of probably the best box calf) was indeed closed down by the Freudenberg company in 2002.

Former managers of the leather company bought the right to produce leathers "in the Freudenberg method" 
and got in touch with the Polish tannery Kegar who produces the stuff.

The new company is Weinheimer Leather, who claims to produce leathers to the same quality and standards as Freudenberg once did. 
People in the leather business still refer to Freudenberg, although the actual stock might be Weinheim.

*Traditional Craftmanship *



> _Weinheimer Leder GmbH came into being on 1st January 2003.
> 
> Thus a 150 year old tradition of Freudenberg leather production lives on.
> 
> ...


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## Frog in Suit (Mar 27, 2007)

Bengal-Stripe,

Many thanks for the information. I am much relieved to find out I do not need to bring my family to ruin before supplies of fine calf disappear :icon_smile_big:.

Frog in suit


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Hermie's supposedly owns an alligator farm in FL. Re Roggwiller, a bit dated https://www.louisianaleather.com/in_the_news.htm


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## Bracemaker (May 11, 2005)

nhorween said:


> Partly true. Some countries have more stringent regulations than others, but following these rules is important for obvious reasons in addition to just obeying the law.
> 
> Interesting thread! I'd love to see some more of the products that's leading to these conclusions.


I think my father and I met your Dad or Uncle at a few trade fairs in the 1970s and early 80's over here in the UK or at Semaine de Cuir - I seem to recall your UK agent was a very affable guy called Trevor Thomas. 
Are you showing at lineapelle in Bologna this year?


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## misterdonuts (Feb 15, 2008)

RJman said:


> Tanneries du Puy used to be regarded as one of the best tanneries as well. Charles Stead as Bracemaker says is one of the best for Suede. There's also Crack & Sons, whose name always makes me laugh.


Did T d Puy go down in quality? Eating too may green lentils perhaps?:icon_smile_big:

I think Tanneries Haas is probably worth a mention as well?

I didn't think Crack are a tannery? I thought that they were wholesale distributors?


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