# The F Word



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Thats right: fleece. Never have I seen it pictured, or even mentioned on these polite pages. Inexpensive, light but warm, washable, flexible, mothproof, American-made fleece. The cold weather garment of choice at Dartmouth, Salisbury, you name it. Prominently mentioned, I gather, in _True Prep_. Worn daily by my Mayflower-ancestored, boarding-schooled, once nicely dressed wife. Do you hate it? Do you wear it, but are embarrassed to admit it? What's wrong about it?


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

I used to wear it for hiking, but not for anything else. I never liked a number of its qualities - a strange light bulkiness, produces static cling, melts on contact with anything hot, pills, looks like athletic wear, no resistance to wind. That said, I've nothing against others wearing it.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

I have a fleece jacket, my wife two, that get worn in the house when it's cold or on hikes. They're ok garments to have around, and can be had cheaply.

That said, our cats have a strange passion for fleece. One has a fleece sweater, and both share a fleece blanket. A jacket left on the bed becomes an instant cat magnet. That's the usefulness of fleece to me.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Nothing against it. For the modern outdoorsman it's indispensable. I'm sure I'll wind up with some one day, but I've been able to avoid it thus far.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

The Rambler said:


> Never have I seen it pictured, or even mentioned on these polite pages.


There's some poster here named ILOVEFLEECE, or something like that, who's currently running a thread asking about fleece presentation jackets, but Card's pretty much on the mark with his post, to which I should add that I wore a vest of that stuff once, and only once, because I had it on when I used a power saw to cut one measly 2X4 and the sawdust flew back and landed in a thousand little crevices and even tweezers wouldn't get it out. And I also object to the usurping of the name.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

I like fleece a lot. Have a couple of jackets and a couple of vests. The only quality I really dislike (as a perpetually quitting smoker) is the flammability.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Thank you, gentlemen, all. It's unexpectedly cool and damp here this morning, so I pulled the first sweater out of the mothballs. My wife pretended to gag at the smell of the naptha, and then proceeded to launch a diatribe, reproduced above, against wool sweaters, and in favor of "fleece" (that better, P&P?). Again. I have been meditating my response.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Dragoon said:


> The only quality I really dislike (as a perpetually quitting smoker) is the flammability.


.

And there's that. Which would seem to pretty much nix fleece near open flames sorta like the only quality I dislike about smoking in bed is that every so often the sheets catch on fire and I go running from the room like Michael Jackson in a Pepsi commercial. (Actually, fleece doesn't so much burn as it does melt, into a plasticy foul-smelling mess; I've conducted experiments.)


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

The Rambler said:


> ...and in favor of "fleece" (that better, P&P?).


Thank you. And when you speak it aloud would you mind cupping and jittering your fingers in that formation I think they call air quotes.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I wore fleece VERY regularly in undergrad, and find myself doing it less now, bit still on occasion. I have a basic, burnt-orange, northface that is pretty great in the version of winter we get down here. When it's 50 degrees, rainy and windy I do find the stuff nearly unbeatable. That said, it doesn't look nearly as good as any number of other options. It's a compromise, I suppose, but I don't think fleece is a dirty word. Then again, my prep school didn't board, and I've spent the entirety of my education in Texas, so what do I know :icon_smile_wink:


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Peak and Pine said:


> Thank you. And when you speak it aloud would you mind cupping and jittering your fingers in that formation I think they call air quotes.


I've been working for years at supplying air quotes by inflection alone, but it often comes out dripping with excessive irony, or passes unnoticed.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Sweatshirts are ideal for cold weather athletic wear.


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

I have a vest that I bought many years ago which I generally wear when working on outdoor projects in the cooler weather. It takes a beating and I don't have to worry about destroying some nicer clothes.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Way long ago, when I did a fair amount of backpacking and bicycle touring, fleece was a godsend. Lightweight, warm (when properly layered), durable and inexpensive, albeit a bit bulky. I still keep a fleece pullover stashed on the motorcycle, although it's been eons since I got caught miles from home in frigid weather and needed it beneath the leather (I have, unfortunately, been there, done that). When it first came out, I considered it a miracle fabric and wondered whether it, along with velcro, was what I got out of financing a trip to the moon. But there are way better things for everyday use, for all the reasons already stated. My wife and her mom have appropriated a couple of of my fleece jackets and wear them constantly, cat hair notwithstanding, so it's good to see they're getting use. My mother-in-law also asked for, and received, a Snuggie for Christmas last year.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

32rollandrock said:


> But there are way better things for everyday use, for all the reasons already stated..


That is the key, what is your everyday use. I frequently feel like a visiting alien here. This is what I've done so far today, granted it is too warm to wear anything but a t-shirt.

On the deck before sunrise drinking coffee and smoking Marlboros.

As soon as it was daylight I was pulling weeds in my vegetable garden. Picked and washed lettuce, tomatoes, zucchini and some herbs for our dinner tonight.

Shot four squirrels out of the pecan tree in the back yard, new Benelli m2 is sweet. Cleaned and put away squirrels. Cleaned shotgun.

Moved greasy, filthy, 64' Ford 3000 tractor into the barn because it is threatening rain.

Started baking bread, one recipe of french bread and one of sandwich rolls.

Read a clothing bulletin board and pondered which shirts I'm going to order from BB during the sale.

Ya'll have seen homeless men that look better than I do right now.

Had I been wearing a fleece jacket through all this it would be none the worse for wear, unless I dropped a hot ash on it.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

I think it is very easy to give up. I have a Patagonia jacket from the mid-80s which is pretty cool because of the the age, but it is by no means necessary. 

I hike, camp, x-country ski, long distance bike ride, etc. all the time, and I never ever wear fleece. 

For light outdoors = rugby shirt, sweat shirt, Shetland. For more rugged pursuits, I wear some sort of wool shirt, sweater, or jacket, with a light windproof outside layer (a thin nylon vest is enough).


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I don't think there is anything wrong w/ the right fleece, I have an old North Face fleece that I love.

Brian


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

The only fleece I own is a kelly-green vest. It has an embroidered logo for a ski contest in Killington.

Despite the fact that I actually did buy it in Killington, somehow wearing it makes me feel like a poseur. Granted, people are buying Ralph Lauren stuff with Wimbledon and US Open logos, but I guess because it's a smaller event without a world-famous designer tie-in, it implies more about my skiing skills than it should.


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

I have one LL Bean purple fleece that I wear to the gym. It's functional, and I used to wear it on other occasions. But no longer: I think it looks a bit silly, and is perfect for gym wear.


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## crohnsappleadams (Nov 30, 2009)

I keep two fleece pullovers around for my early spring/mid autumn ventures through western Colorado/eastern Utah. They're perfect for short hikes in 30-40 degree weather.


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## SNB (Nov 28, 2007)

Now working back in NYC after a 10 year break, I can't help but notice that a fleece vest is very popular amongst the younger "trad" set. In fact, the standard uniform in some parts of Wall St. is slacks, a button down (or, unfortunately, more likely a spread collar) slip-ons of some sort (tassel or bit) and a fleece vest (usually worn all day in the office - trading floors are kept cool b/c of all the computers). I like the look, have adopted it, and find it quite comfortable.
SNB


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

The windblocking types of fleece they make these days makes for an excellent jacket. The regular fleece isn't good for much more than an insulating layer under some kind of shell or for exercise.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

A 200 weight vest is a very useful garment, I keep one in the trunk. Under any sort of shell it adds a lot of warmth for weight.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

I love it. I have various pieces from Patagonia and find that I wear them more than sweaters in more casual situations. For going to class in the fall I can usually be seen in khakis or 501s, some sort of oxford or patterned shirt, and a fleece vest or pullover. As mentioned, they're warm, don't attract moths, and, most importantly, quickly and easily removed once indoors. I love my shetlands, but more often than not I burn up once I step inside.

Also, patagonia makes a few models with a windproof layer sandwiched in between the inner and outer fabric that is quite effective at cutting a cold breeze.

Here's a timely blog post on the matter:

https://dreamsofperfection.wordpress.com/2010/09/24/some-love-for-fleece/

Best,

Michael


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Dragoon said:


> That is the key, what is your everyday use. I frequently feel like a visiting alien here. This is what I've done so far today, granted it is too warm to wear anything but a t-shirt.
> 
> On the deck before sunrise drinking coffee and smoking Marlboros.
> 
> ...


This is one of the better posts this weekend. I like everything you mention that I can understand, especially the tractor thing and the Marlboros, but when you say you _cleaned and put away squirrels_ does that mean you skin them and cook them?


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Peak and Pine said:


> This is one of the better posts this weekend. I like everything you mention that I can understand, especially the tractor thing and the Marlboros, but when you say you _cleaned and put away squirrels_ does that mean you skin them and cook them?


I was a _little_ curious, but part of my family is cajun so I didn't bother asking.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

hookem12387 said:


> I was a _little_ curious, but part of my family is cajun so I didn't bother asking.


Not to impugn anyone's integrity, but I, too, am curious. What was left to clean, or did you get all four with the same shot?


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

I don't mind fleece on other people, and in fact I own a ratty old LL Bean pullover given to me by my mother some Christmases ago which I use for fetching the paper or keeping warm when ill. The other piece is a layering jacket from Target meant for athletic use. Outside of these two odd garments, no fleece for me.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

One afternoon a few years ago my nephew and I bagged a few squirrels in the back 40. He cleaned them, and we saved the tails for my sister to make paintbrushes out of. He then cooked the squirrels in a slow-cooker with some cream of mushroom gravy soup.

It was the most disgusting thing I've ever eaten.

True story.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

I'm a little optimistic over Unifi/Polartec's REPREVE 100, which is apparently a new 100 percent recycled fleece they're introducing...

I think folks are just cautious about synthetics now that the modernist optimism over space age miracle fabrics has cooled somewhat. Compared to natural fabrics, synthetics don't have an especially long track record, and not all experiences have been favorable. I think it comes down to the fact that wool is a known quantity, and traditionalists dislike unnecessary change... a 'why fix something that isn't broken?' mentality. On the other hand, rayon jacket linings and nylon watchstraps have more or less successfully replaced their silk counterparts... Maybe the wool fleece is next.


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## IlliniFlyer (Sep 20, 2009)

I find this discussion humorous in that seeing people with khakis/dress slacks and a fleece jacket is one of the reasons I was interested in this forum. I really don't care for the look for myself. However, I type this while wearing my Army-issued fleece top. It's quite comfortable! At least the US Army has transitioned to modern material (see also the Extreme Cold Weather Clothing System).


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Dragoon said:


> Had I been wearing a fleece jacket through all this it would be none the worse for wear, unless I dropped a hot ash on it.


The hot ash is no fine point. Fleece is plastic. It melts. A comparable weight wool jacket would take that ash and more.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Peak and Pine said:


> This is one of the better posts this weekend. I like everything you mention that I can understand, especially the tractor thing and the Marlboros, but when you say you _cleaned and put away squirrels_ does that mean you skin them and cook them?


The short answer would be, yes. An expanded response might read: Take a small camp axe and chop the head, feet and tails off the squirrels, grip the hide at the neck of the carcass and peel it back and off...just as a surgeon might peel off his latex gloves after finishing the surgery; if it has not already been accomplished, open your dinners abdominal cavity and, going head to tail, use you thumb to remove the 'innards' from you prospective entrée; soak in salted water for at least an hour; remove from salt water, rinse and place in freezer bags or dip em in milk, roll in bread crumbs and the right seasonings and pop them in a hot and seasoned cast iron skillet w/a good sized dollop of lard and prepare yourself for some remarkably good eating! :teacha:


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

+1 fried squirrel.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> The short answer would be, yes. An expanded response might read: Take a small camp axe and chop the head, feet and tails off the squirrels, grip the hide at the neck of the carcass and peel it back and off...just as a surgeon might peel off his latex gloves after finishing the surgery;


When my mother removed our sweaters or outergarments over our heads she would exclaim "skin the bunny!!"

Fleece??

No.

I suppose emoving it in the dark and watching the sparks fly has some entertainmet value...


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Our use of fleece nowadays reminds me of how the older segment of my age group appropriated the down vest from the back-to-nature crowd back in the mid-to late-1960s and wrote it into the Trad catalog by the early-to-mid-1970s. 

Although it may look out of place to the conservatives among us, I think fleece has similarly become a Trad staple.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Squirrel tail fibers make an excellent fishing fly: waste not , want not.


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## Henry346 (Oct 31, 2009)

Down south in Washington and Lee fleece is a preppy stable for sure. I think it is a better look for the younger among us, and that fleece jackets and vests look great with most casual preppy stuff.


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## kevinbelt (Dec 2, 2007)

I've always worn it with no objections. Along with khaki pants, lacrosse shorts, old-school sneakers, white baseball caps from the college you planned to attend, and LL Bean Deluxe Book Packs, fleece was big at my high school and consequently played a prominent role in my sartorial education. The key, as with anything, really, is moderation. I have a navy blue full-zip jacket that I like very much. But the bright colors, the logos, all that jazz - that's when you get yourself into tacky territory. I suppose it wouldn't fit into a trad canon narrowly defined as "what people wore in 1959 at Princeton", but I'm not trying to wear a costume. 

I should note, though, that I have a standing refusal to date any woman who wears a North Face fleece jacket. 

-k


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## Henry346 (Oct 31, 2009)

kevinbelt said:


> I should note, though, that I have a standing refusal to date any woman who wears a North Face fleece jacket.
> 
> -k


Why is this... all of my girlfriends have had such a jacket.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Younger gents,

It is not necessarily that fleece is horrible (which it is if you see it in a certain light), but that reliance on fleece inhibits use of much greater garments. Like a G-9. Or a Shetland. Or something from Austria in loden. Or a duffle. Or a soft shouldered tweed.

Break away from the Southern prep staple, and delve into more classic clothing.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> Squirrel tail fibers make an excellent fishing fly: waste not , want not.


I think I still have a couple in my fly tying box but don't really use them much. Mepps used to buy them to dress their spinners; some ridiculous amount, 15 cents or something like that.

Let me know if you want squirrel or buck tail and I'll send them to you the next time I have some.

If I had to pick a meal to eat for eternity, it would not be squirrel but I do enjoy the process and partake every so often. I'm going to make these up into a nice Brunswick stew the first cold snap we have.

Pentheos, I don't like cream o' mushroom soup either. : )


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Thank you, kind sir, but I have an abundant supply. A Brunswick stew of pecan-fed squirrel sounds mighty tasty.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> The short answer would be, yes. An expanded response might read: Take a small camp axe and chop the head, feet and tails off the squirrels, grip the hide at the neck of the carcass and peel it back and off...just as a surgeon might peel off his latex gloves after finishing the surgery; if it has not already been accomplished, open your dinners abdominal cavity and, going head to tail, use you thumb to remove the 'innards' from you prospective entrée; soak in salted water for at least an hour; remove from salt water, rinse and place in freezer bags or dip em in milk, roll in bread crumbs and the right seasonings and pop them in a hot and seasoned cast iron skillet w/a good sized dollop of lard and prepare yourself for some remarkably good eating! :teacha:


Reading _that_ was the second closest I've come to using the free Jet Blue barf bags I collect. (The first was mistakenly reading a post last spring called A Tradly Morning.) In recent weeks all sorts of posters whom we thought we had deciphered have come forth with revelations of newer and grander quirks. This might be the grandest.


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

That would definitely thin out the population on my side of town.



kevinbelt said:


> I should note, though, that I have a standing refusal to date any woman who wears a North Face fleece jacket.
> 
> -k


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

Actually I think this is one of the things that Lisa Birnbach got right in the new book. Fleece is a sporty fabric that looks good as a casual jacket or for layering under another coat. I have several fleece pullovers and vests of various weights with logos from different sports teams, ski resorts and other activities. They are a nice casual alternative to a sweater and actually keep you much warmer. Much better than the old puffy down vests we used to wear.


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## bluenose (Nov 23, 2009)

Fleece is indispensible in a cold climate. I have a checked fleece Faconable BD shirt from Nordstroms (Seattle, of course). It's snappy looking, very trad and it's warm. i wish I'd bought 10 as I've never seen them again.


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## CRMW (Nov 7, 2009)

Hmmm a bluenose from Calgary, your either from the East Coast or a RFC fan, but fleece would be indispensable in all 3 climates.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

This seemed relevant.

https://frattinghard.com/stay-warm-and-frat-hard/


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## Henry346 (Oct 31, 2009)

Charles Saturn said:


> This seemed relevant.
> 
> https://frattinghard.com/stay-warm-and-frat-hard/


I personally enjoy frattinghard (and fratting hard), but that website should be taken with a grain of salt. Even then the fratty sect is a small portion of the trad community, a sub category of even "preppy" perhaps.


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