# Levi's at BB?! what is in the world!



## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Evidently, BB started selling Levi's jeans on their website. They're made in the US, but I wonder why they're doing this. It's a bad omen :devil:, you know J.Crewcifying BB!

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=1108


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

I rather liked the combination. Plus I can pick up my size for cheap in the eventual sale.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

Eh, no big deal. BB as been offering jeans for at leat 30 years (probably much longer) and, though overpriced (I think), kudos to BB for pushing an old American brand - and there is no jean brand more classic than Levis - the colors look modern/lame, though.... I don't understand this modern obsession for dark blue jeans....


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## red sweatpants (Jun 19, 2010)

Pink and Green said:


> I rather liked the combination. Plus I can pick up my size for cheap in the eventual sale.


*Thumbs up*


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

just another nail in the coffin.


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## OH-CPA (Jun 12, 2008)

I guess I should state that I rarely wear jeans these days. When I do wear jeans, its 501s. Good to know I can pick them up at BB. I hardley see BB selling a classic american garment as the end of the world.


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## Bermuda (Aug 16, 2009)

they cost 148$. I'll continue wearing my Ralph Lauren Chaps jeans that cost in the double digit range


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Bermuda said:


> they cost 148$. I'll continue wearing my Ralph Lauren Chaps jeans that cost in the double digit range


BB Levi jeans, *Made in USA*. Ralph Lifshitz(Lauren) Chaps, *'Imported'* which usually means Made in China or similar.

I wonder which will have a better fit, and will be longer lasting? My bet goes with BB Levi jeans here.


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## joeyzaza (Dec 9, 2005)

$148 for a pair of 501s???? Wow.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

I understand that they're being made in the US, but why do I have a feeling that the next thing BB will do, is commission other brands to make clothes for them (like J.Crew are doing) which will lead BB to lose its identity. My argument is not whether the products are good or not, I'm only concerned about BB's unique identity being lost. So, word to the wise!


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

MikeDT said:


> BB Levi jeans, *Made in USA*. Ralph Lifshitz(Lauren) Chaps, *'Imported'* which usually means Made in China or similar.
> 
> I wonder which will have a better fit, and will be longer lasting? My bet goes with BB Levi jeans here.


The U.S. made jeans are more likely to be made by a worker from a third world country.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

IMHO...

Levis 501's are the end-all-be-all. I have seen all manner of dungarees sold for well into the three-digit range and say, harrumph. That is all so much noise.

At the proverbial day's end, jeans is jeans. They are, or should be, knockabouts. I understand that Hollywood may feel differently, but if BB advertising these at ridiculous $150 or thereabouts prices for a product that can be had for a third as much brings some sort of sensibility to The Scene, then more power to them.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Why on Earth would _anyone_ pay $148 for a pair of Levis??? Sorry--I love Brooks Brothers, but that's a rip off. Buyer beware!


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## zarathustra (Aug 24, 2006)

THE END IS NIGH!! THE END IS NIGH!!

My question to all of those who continue to claim that Brooks or JPress is headed to its respective imminent doom. Do you have any idea on the market research and demographics of a Brooks or a Jpress store? Given my involvement in the industry and my visits to the stores, customers are often 50 plus and generally professionals. How many years does this core shopper have left? As suits and refined dressing is slowing pushed to the outer fringes of our society, how are these companies to make money? If they cannot attract younger customers which will hopefully grow to appreciate their own sartorial ways (and attract a higher porportion of their core shoppers spending), they will go under. Then -- where will you shop?


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

Epaminondas said:


> The U.S. made jeans are more likely to be made by a worker from a third world country.


And your point is...?


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

Saltydog said:


> Why on Earth would _anyone_ pay $148 for a pair of Levis??? Sorry--I love Brooks Brothers, but that's a rip off. Buyer beware!


Why on earth would you pay $79.95 for an OCBD when you can get one at Wal-Mart for $12.99? (Hint: it's higher quality.)


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Epaminondas said:


> The U.S. made jeans are more likely to be made by a worker from a third world country.


So was the Big Mac that I ate a few days ago.

Cruiser


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't like how Levi's 501 fit anymore. How can something with an 11.25" rise "sit at the waist"?


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Was this topic created in a lab by a scientist as the weapon that would generate the most passion here in the trad forum?

It combines the classic "Brooks is Going downhill" with the opportunity to rant about jeans that cost more than $25, you could even get some "are jeans trad"-type response out of it, as well as the always emotional discussions of US-made goods v imported goods.
Perhaps a digression into all this trendy neo-trad and workwear?



Anyways, I think the 501 cut is the best around.
I don't mind paying for quality, and I wear jeans enough that I can justify it (to myself anyways).


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)




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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Trip, you're such a heathen. That is a totally un-trad way to end the world.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

Jovan said:


> Trip, you're such a heathen. That is a totally un-trad way to end the world.


"Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice" . . .


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

501s in many different finishes are on amazon.com for 30-40 bucks. I would think the BB ones are no better quality, unless anyone has info to that effect. Seems silly to pay so much for them there. Smart move by Levi's though, reminds people of their American heritage, perhaps.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Oh this thread is just so amusing. 

Brooks Brothers, a traditional American garment company, selling Levi 501 jeans, a traditional American garment. It's like it's the end of the world and the sky is falling... OMG!!!


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## CM Wolff (Jun 7, 2006)

J.Marko said:


> I would think the BB ones are no better quality, unless anyone has info to that effect.


This is BB's challenge now....the BB Levi's ARE better quality - I've checked them out at the store and they clearly are not the 501's you will get anywhere else in terms of craftsmanship or materials. HOWEVER, attaching the Levi's name to them automatically brings the jeans downmarket as far as pricing expectations go. So while these jeans are clearly equal to or superior to the jeans BB has previously sold for $148, BB now has to overcome the expectations gap on the pricing just because of the Levi's association. Maybe as more customers try these things out in the store, the tide will change. Until then, though, internet message boards are going to start with the expectation that these are standard Levi's, which is a flawed assumption.

Personally, I won't buy ANY jean for $148, but this is not the fiasco that it is being made out to be.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Levi's used to be working class dungarees.

Then the Hippies and even Preps wore them.

"Designer" jeans were overpriced poncey things, the "enemy" of Levis.

Now the enemy is us!!


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## MrAmbrose (Apr 11, 2010)

Have to admit I'm perfectly happy with my 30 dollar Levi's, ignorance being bliss and all that. :icon_smile:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
+1. If the BB pricing is too high for Levi 501's, don't buy them from the Brothers. I am a BB fan but, when it comes to buying my Levi 501 Originals, I will continue to buy them at Kohl's @ just under $32 a copy!


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

So some might think that $148 USD is too much to pay for a pair of *American made* jeans at BB.

Would they also consider $1000 USD is too much for a blazer, or $2000 USD is too much for a suit from BB?


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

They may very well be better than other jeans priced around $150 (7 for all mankind, AG, citizens, joe's, etc.). The problem is when the average joe, who knows nothing of Levi's premium products, picks up a pair of $148 Levis, they will immediately feel ripped off. You, me, and other forumites might know the difference, but most won't. 

Brooks would have been better to not put the Levi's label on the jeans. Have a marketing campaign revolved around "premium denim made in the USA" but don't mention a company that makes 95% of their money selling $35 jeans at low level department stores.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Well, that would be somewhat dependant on how easily that same blazer or suit might be purchased elsewhere for $250 or $500...wouldn't it?


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

CM Wolff said:


> This is BB's challenge now....the BB Levi's ARE better quality - I've checked them out at the store and they clearly are not the 501's you will get anywhere else in terms of craftsmanship or materials. HOWEVER, attaching the Levi's name to them automatically brings the jeans downmarket as far as pricing expectations go. So while these jeans are clearly equal to or superior to the jeans BB has previously sold for $148, BB now has to overcome the expectations gap on the pricing just because of the Levi's association. Maybe as more customers try these things out in the store, the tide will change. Until then, though, internet message boards are going to start with the expectation that these are standard Levi's, which is a flawed assumption.


Actually, the kids on the message boards know that $148 is not an unusual price for Levi's. Hell, J. Crew sells a $325 pair of Levi's. Levi's is like RL, there's the crappy Chaps version of their jeans they sell to Wal-Mart (the Levi's Signature Collection), the slightly-less crappy version they sell to Kohl's (501s that, as a poster upthread mentioned, have a totally different fit than they used to), lots of jeans in the $100 range, and their Purple Label equivalent is the Vintage Collection, where you can pay $250 for a chambray shirt or a pair of chinos.


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## CM Wolff (Jun 7, 2006)

JakeLA said:


> Actually, the kids on the message boards know that $148 is not an unusual price for Levi's. Hell, J. Crew sells a $325 pair of Levi's. Levi's is like RL, there's the crappy Chaps version of their jeans they sell to Wal-Mart (the Levi's Signature Collection), the slightly-less crappy version they sell to Kohl's (501s that, as a poster upthread mentioned, have a totally different fit than they used to), lots of jeans in the $100 range, and their Purple Label equivalent is the Vintage Collection, where you can pay $250 for a chambray shirt or a pair of chinos.


Excellent points re: Levi's segmentation. When referring to the reactions of the message boards, I was thinking both of this thread and the simultaneous threads at styleforum and ivystyle, where the common themes have indeed been that Levi's could be purchased elsewhere at $30 price points. This thinking ignores that the BB jeans are not really the downmarket Levi's and therefore the comparison is not a fair one.

I did talk to my BB salesperson the other night to get her reaction, and she said her store's employees were mixed on the pricing - i.e. while BB has had $148 jeans, the association with Levi's has indeed created an expectation gap. In other words, if BB had again stocked the stores with more generically labeled $148 jeans this season, no one would bat an eyelash.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

When these jeans go on sale... 
Future thread: 501 jeans on sale at BB!!!!

Come on guys! Who would buy these when they go on sale? 

Poll?


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## CM Wolff (Jun 7, 2006)

maximar said:


> When these jeans go on sale...
> Future thread: 501 jeans on sale at BB!!!!
> 
> Come on guys! Who would buy these when they go on sale?
> ...


I've bought BB jeans on sale and loved them, such that the (sale-level) price point hasn't been a problem. However, the lower rises were an issue for me with last year's BB jeans and I suspect that is going to be an issue with these too. Will have to give them a fair try-on, though.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I've generally been happier with jeans purchased at higher prices ($75-150) than those bought at lower prices ($35-50). If I wore the 501 I would gladly give these a try.


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

The rise on these measures out roughly the equivalent of my shrink to fit 501s, so these do look to be the original cut of 501s. STF 501s can be had for under $50, and while I would be glad to pay a little more for made in America I don't 3x is viable unless these are a considerably higher quality denim. Alas, I now live in Denmark so going to see them is not an option.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

If they want people to buy these, they need to make clear how they are somehow superior to the regular Levi's jeans you can get for 30 bucks. Reviewing their site, they haven't done that. They only say made in the usa on the logo.

All they say is this:
_This special 501 jean is part of a carefully crafted assortment of classic styles in a range of finishes made by Levi's exclusively for Brooks Brothers._

So it looks to me like they are not even claiming they are higher quality, since "carefully crafted" could imply anything, and would just be considered puffery. Maybe they can't claim they are better because they aren't (made in USA is no guarantee of quality, surely) or because Levi's doesn't want them dissing their regular line.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Considering the premium paid (happily in many cases) for merchandise made in America, I can't see how a premium like this is out of line. As has been mentioned, the Levis you buy in a Levis store are usually about $75-100 and those are made in Egypt or the Philippines, or elsewhere. Are we really buying so many jeans that we can't part with the price of dinner for two at Applebee's so that Americans can work? Every time we open our wallets we are casting a vote for how we want the economy to work and registering demand to be met with supply. If retailers find that they can sell high quality american made goods and the shoddy imports rot on the shelves we may just have ourselves a ball game.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

BB sent me an email about these.

They are made in America, of imported fabric, and they're non selvedge.

The latter is a big deal, not because it's trendy to show 1" of red and white ribbon at the cuff, but because in my experience selvedge denim is much more durable and lasts significantly longer.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

MikeDT said:


> Oh this thread is just so amusing.
> 
> Brooks Brothers, a traditional American garment company, selling Levi 501 jeans, a traditional American garment. It's like it's the end of the world and the sky is falling... OMG!!!


Clearly you need to read the rest of the thread.

The problem isn't that they are made in the USA. Obviously an American brand being made there is a good thing. It's the fact that there's nothing we can see that places them above and beyond the normal asking price of $50. They aren't even selvage denim, which you could find with APC, Nudie, and other premium denim brands for the same price or less. Last I checked, they are made in non-slave-labour countries.

Being made in developed countries is a good thing, but being overpriced or shoddily made is not. Just look at Sterilite. Those plastic stacking shelves fall apart within a year!



CM Wolff said:


> I've bought BB jeans on sale and loved them, such that the (sale-level) price point hasn't been a problem. However, the lower rises were an issue for me with last year's BB jeans and I suspect that is going to be an issue with these too. Will have to give them a fair try-on, though.


The worst part is that you can't avoid it anymore. I hate that. You used to have a choice between Straight Fit and Low Rise Straight at a store like The Gap. Do they actually think everyone needs them sitting four inches below their navel? Seriously, that's how low the modern 501s sit on me. I'm not THAT tall nor do I have a disproportionately long torso last I checked. That's unacceptable.



chacend said:


> The rise on these measures out roughly the equivalent of my shrink to fit 501s, so these do look to be the original cut of 501s. STF 501s can be had for under $50, and while I would be glad to pay a little more for made in America I don't 3x is viable unless these are a considerably higher quality denim. Alas, I now live in Denmark so going to see them is not an option.


 It's the same cut as every other _modern_ 501, yes, but certainly not the same as they were just five years ago. They have lowered the rise significantly in that short time, presumably to appeal more to people my age.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

I tend not to dabble in matters 'Trad' however, to my European sensibilities a pair of Levi's jeans are a trad as it gets when it comes to jeans. Your J.Crew, Gant et al. are the real interlopers.

That's why I wear 7's


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Jovan,

No idea what 501s you've tried on, but the shrink to fits do have a higher rise than the regular 501s.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

They were regular wash. Rise was 11.25", same as these.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> BB sent me an email about these.
> 
> They are made in America, of imported fabric, and they're non selvedge.
> 
> The latter is a big deal, not because it's trendy to show 1" of red and white ribbon at the cuff, but because in my experience selvedge denim is much more durable and lasts significantly longer.


Pity they weren't made of Selvadge denim, BB would have been sitting on a sure fire hit if the 501s were.

I consider myself a little more prep than trad (wore 501s in high school back in the 1980s), I still might give the BB/Levis 501s a look over if they get stocked in Toronto. Granted if I'm buying jeans, it will probably be Sugarcanes from Japan. Their denim is Japanese woven like it was in North America pre-1960s on older looms and hand dyed.

To answer the person who posted the question why the fascination with dark denim. Well that's how it used to look before people insisted on the pre-distressed look. I find the dark denim flattering to wear most of the time (except on super hot days for those of us in Central Canada and the US South) and while thought can be preposterous to the trad nation, they can be dressed up for beyond the backyard BBQ gathering.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

Levis has been making premium denim for a few years now at that price range. I just don't know if people who shop at Brooks Brothers are into paying $150 for *any* brand of jean.

They are both American iconic brands, but for different crowds. The hardcore BB shopper (like many on these boards) probably thinks $150 is a rip-off for jeans... and for their style they are right. They likely don't wear jeans very often and when they do it tends to be for yardwork or something similar.

501's are classic and appreciated as such by the hardcore denimologists and they would have no problem with paying triple digits for selvage or premium denim in a 501 cut. In fact, almost every expensive denim line offers a pair just like that. But if you're paying $200 for denim and wearing it every day... you probably don't have much need for a BB suit.

As for myself, I like 501's. Who doesn't? Like I said, they're classics. Unfortunately, I can't wear the "original-classic" 501 fit that is now the only one 501's they make. 

I think people go overboard with the whole "iconic 501" thing. There are plenty of other cuts by Levis and other companies that aren't baggy hip-hop jeans or flares or hipster skinny. 501's are not super-skinny, but they are straight legs with sort of a low rise that sit low and tilt forward. If you have large thighs from lifting weights or you are a bit overweight as most men over 30 are... they can be a problem. 

You know what the secret is to a lot of "designer" jeans like 7 For All Mankind? They have spandex in them. People think they fit and look better, without knowing why. You tell someone that and they're like "I'm not wearing spandex!" Well, you don't have to. The point is that the jeans you are used to wearing may not fit you properly in some area. That's why you notice a difference with the spandex.

I see a lot of people wearing 501's when they would look and feel better in 559's. The 559's don't cost anymore. They are still straight legs. They're just a little looser up top is all. You can wear them and look just like you are wearing 501's, just 501's that fit as opposed to ones that are too tight.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I received the e-mail today, but I'd already seen them in the store at Lenox Square.

I owned a pair of BB jeans many years ago, and despite my complete lack of interest in trendiness, they felt like something an old man would wear. 

BB sells Alden shoes and Hartmann luggage, why shouldn't they team up with a well-regarded company to sell a product that they have absolutely no standing in? 

Full disclosure: I own two pair of jeans. Calvin Kleins that are fairly standard cut, and a lower-rise pair of 7 for All Mankind. I was determined to own one pair of "designer jeans" and these were the only ones that fit in a size 38. The others were impossibly tight in 40s.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Truth be told, I was really excited for these and really didn't think the price so bad.

Until I got down to the "not selvedge" thing. Really? $150 for American made thats NOT selvedge? I was hoping this would be my affordable Levi's holy grail: American made, durable denim.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

eagle2250;1131045when it comes to buying my Levi 501 Originals said:


> Heck, that's still too much for me. I move about ten feet to the left at Kohls and find Lee jeans for $22 a copy. I wore Levis for 40 years before I decided that they were too expensive. I've not missed them at all.
> 
> Cruiser


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Why did BB do this? They're in the business to make money and they think they can this way.

"Money makes the world go 'round, the world go 'round, the world go 'round...that clinking, clanking sound!"

Really, all this fuss over jeans?


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Jovan said:


> Clearly you need to read the rest of the thread.


Jovan I have read the rest of this thread. But it's the thread's title "Levi's at BB?! what is in the world!" and the reactions of some of the posters here. It's like ZOMG!! End of the world!

The way I see things is: BB is selling an overpriced casual garment, so what? Isn't this what they've been doing for decades? There is nothing really new here.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

Pink and Green said:


> Truth be told, I was really excited for these and really didn't think the price so bad.
> 
> Until I got down to the "not selvedge" thing. Really? $150 for American made thats NOT selvedge? I was hoping this would be my affordable Levi's holy grail: American made, durable denim.


I wonder if it's not possible for Levis to make real selvage denim in enough quantities to sell at BB's nationwide if the collaboration took off. They'd also be undercutting their own LVC line by $75. Unfortunately, I don't think the LVC's are made in the US.

Railcar Fine Goods makes a US-made jean from Cone denim for about $150, but it's a slim cut. Raleigh Denim also makes jeans where every part of the jean is made in North Carolina, hand assembled in their Raleigh workshop and signed by the owners for $225-ish.


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

jean-paul sartorial said:


> I wonder if it's not possible for Levis to make real selvage denim in enough quantities to sell at BB's nationwide if the collaboration took off. They'd also be undercutting their own LVC line by $75. Unfortunately, I don't think the LVC's are made in the US.
> 
> Railcar Fine Goods makes a US-made jean from Cone denim for about $150, but it's a slim cut. Raleigh Denim also makes jeans where every part of the jean is made in North Carolina, hand assembled in their Raleigh workshop and signed by the owners for $225-ish.


And Pointer makes jeans in Tennessee for $30. $35 if you're fat.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

nolan50410 said:


> They may very well be better than other jeans priced around $150 (7 for all mankind, AG, citizens, joe's, etc.). The problem is when the average joe, who knows nothing of Levi's premium products, picks up a pair of $148 Levis, they will immediately feel ripped off. You, me, and other forumites might know the difference, but most won't.
> 
> Brooks would have been better to not put the Levi's label on the jeans. Have a marketing campaign revolved around "premium denim made in the USA" but don't mention a company that makes 95% of their money selling $35 jeans at low level department stores.


Q:What would you do if you found a million dollars?

A: I'd give it back if it belonged to someone poor.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

xcubbies said:


> Q:What would you do if you found a million dollars?
> 
> A: I'd give it back if it belonged to someone poor.


Someone "poor" lost a million $$??

It's yours buddy, enjoy!!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> Heck, that's still too much for me. I move about ten feet to the left at Kohls and find Lee jeans for $22 a copy. I wore Levis for 40 years before I decided that they were too expensive. I've not missed them at all.
> 
> Cruiser


LOL, but mine come with an authentic, really Trad, button fly. Zippers are so AmJack!


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> The way I see things is: BB is selling an overpriced casual garment, so what? Isn't this what they've been doing for decades? There is nothing really new here.


WORD UP!


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

*Just a phase*

Coming soon--Authentic Distressed Brooks Brothers Oxford Cloth Button Downs, at J. Crew!

Not really, but you get the point. This cross-branding is a fad designed to get people in the stores.

These chains have to charge unusually high prices for this stuff to keep margins in line with their house brand merchandise.

My guess is the consumer will tire of this, and products will go on sale aggressively.

In a couple of seasons, we'll see a movement back to in-house design, with BB going back to its roots, etc. Management always has to come up with new ideas like these, or what are the shareholders paying them for, right?


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Larsd4 said:


> This cross-branding is a fad designed to get people in the stores.


Obviously just about anything a retail company does it designed to get people in their stores; however, cross branding is anything but a fad. It's been ongoing for as long as I can remember and my memory goes back to the 1950s. Clearly that's long enough to remove the "fad" label I would think.

There are different ways to cross brand. For example, sometimes a company simply purchases the right to put another company's name, logo, whatever on a product that the selling company produces. Have you ever seen a Timex or Seiko watch with Mickey Mouse on the watch face? And the Ford Motor Company has been making Eddie Bauer Explorers for nearly 20 years.

And then there are situations like we are talking about here where a company not only pays for the other company's name (or brand) but also pays the other company to produce the product for them. About ten years ago Wal-Mart entered into a deal with Levi Strauss to produce Levis jeans solely for sale in Wal-Mart. These jeans were sold at Wal-Mart, and Wal-Mart only, under the name Levis Signature. That agreement is no longer exclusive and because the jeans were a success they are now sold at other discount department stores at prices less than regular Levis sold elsewhere. Just the opposite of what BB is doing in that they went the other direction in price and, apparently, quality. But it's still the same thing.

Cruiser


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

Yeah, you can see exactly what they're trying to do here. 

Your old-school cowboy/biker/rocker probably thinks BB is pretentious, fuddy-duddy, and generally uncool. The stereotypical heavy BB shopper rarely wears jeans and just buys a cheap pair.

But the jeans-and-a-polo or better yet jeans-and-a-blazer look has been played up by the men's fashion mags for years. You see celebs sporting the jeans/blazer combo all the time and perhaps it is now slowly catching on with the general public.

No one would likely be very interested in a BB jean or a Levi's blazer, so this is an attempt by both companies to get some image rub off and acquire a larger audience.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I just noticed the awkward wording of the thread's title "what is in the world!"

I like it.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> So some might think that $148 USD is too much to pay for a pair of *American made* jeans at BB.
> 
> Would they also consider $1000 USD is too much for a blazer, or $2000 USD is too much for a suit from BB?


Trust me, I own $400 TRBJ and $40 Levi's. The quality is *exactly *the same, only the TRBJ have flap pockets and twisted seems. You can't say the same about suits can you?! Someone mentioned BB teaming up with Hartmann, that's not even relevant. Hartmann products sell for an average of $500, the Hartmann's made for BB retail around that much, which is reasonable. Get my point?


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Trip English said:


> I just noticed the awkward wording of the thread's title "what is in the world!"
> 
> I like it.


I couldn't find a way to edit the thread's title :confused2:


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

joeyzaza said:


> $148 for a pair of 501s???? Wow.


Exactly. Wow. Does being "Made in USA" contribute to the price, or is this just gouging on the part of BB.


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## Luckycharmboi2 (May 30, 2009)

Let's face it, everyone needs a pair or two of jeans for certain things. Yardwork, home repair, sitting on an airplane, something. The sad part of the story is that 501s used to be made in the US; they were an American icon. (Remember the old "$500 for a pair of 501s in Russia" stories). And, they were quite cheap ($20-30 when I was growing up) Sadly, 501s are now made in Mexico or worse yet China. Even some of the other Jeans formerly made in the US (such as Lucky) are now being made offshore (I saw some made in Vietnam pairs in a store recently). So, it's getting to the point where an American icon is no longer made anywhere in America, and that is a shame. 

I'm glad to see U.S. made 501s wherever they are sold. I applaud BB bringing back the true icon, and I don't think it spells the demise of BB. BB already carries casual clothing, and it's perfectly fine for them to carry a jeans line to be a full service men's clothier. Question is, will I drop $148 for a pair of 501s next time I need a pair of jeans? Not sure at this moment, but leaning toward "yes." Only if we're willing to pay more for US made garments will we keep any clothing production in the U.S. Otherwise, we'll eventually have no choice at all but to get our clothing from Asia, and in certain cases it's getting harder and harder not to do so.

David.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

The jeans look great in the photo. I'm a 514 guy, so I'm interested.

Then again, I do wish BB would make it clear what's different about their version. That would probably sell me.


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## goplutus (Jun 4, 2005)

Is this terribly different than BB offering Alden shoes w/ slight variations under their own label? I don't see the fuss, other than BB sees Levi's as very marketable so they put the name up there.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
The big difference is that while BB does also sell Alden shoes, under the BB label, they retail those shoes at prices comparable to the price at which Alden sells them. Indeed, if one shops wisely, you can buy the BB versions during BB's frequent sales events at prices less than those charged by Alden. In the case of the Levi's being marketed by BB, they are being retailed at prices three times as high as the same model of Levi's can be bought at other stores. Seems a significant point of difference, to me?


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> In the case of the Levi's being marketed by BB, they are being retailed at prices three times as high as the same model of Levi's can be bought at other stores. Seems a significant point of difference, to me?


As someone who has worked in the marketing communications industry my entire adult life, I think the partnership is genius. So what if BB charges too much for it? If they convince people to pay those prices, then it was a success. If it doesn't work, BB will move on. Though Levi's quality is dubious these days, marrying two iconic brands strikes a chord for BB loyalists...and they know it. Oddly enough, the brand loyalty doesn't run both ways...I doubt Levi's loyalists will be flocking to BB.

Of course, this doesn't mean I will buy a pair of over-priced Levi's at BB. I don't like the fit of Levi's. When it comes to denim, I go down market and buy 'em at The Gap...their denim fits me like a glove.


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## demondeac (Aug 2, 2010)

CM Wolff said:


> This is BB's challenge now....the BB Levi's ARE better quality - I've checked them out at the store and they clearly are not the 501's you will get anywhere else in terms of craftsmanship or materials. HOWEVER, attaching the Levi's name to them automatically brings the jeans downmarket as far as pricing expectations go. So while these jeans are clearly equal to or superior to the jeans BB has previously sold for $148, BB now has to overcome the expectations gap on the pricing just because of the Levi's association. Maybe as more customers try these things out in the store, the tide will change. Until then, though, internet message boards are going to start with the expectation that these are standard Levi's, which is a flawed assumption.
> 
> Personally, I won't buy ANY jean for $148, but this is not the fiasco that it is being made out to be.


Excellently stated!


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

TMMKC said:


> As someone who has worked in the marketing communications industry my entire adult life, I think the partnership is genius. So what if BB charges too much for it? If they convince people to pay those prices, then it was a success. If it doesn't work, BB will move on. Though Levi's quality is dubious these days, marrying two iconic brands strikes a chord for BB loyalists...and they know it. Oddly enough, the brand loyalty doesn't run both ways...I doubt Levi's loyalists will be flocking to BB.


Exactly - it's a smart pairing of two iconic brands and despite what this forum thinks, the general public, including those who shop at Brooks Brothers, wear jeans quite often.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> So was the Big Mac that I ate a few days ago.
> 
> Cruiser


this made me laugh.


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## goplutus (Jun 4, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> In the case of the Levi's being marketed by BB, they are being retailed at prices three times as high as the same model of Levi's can be bought at other stores. Seems a significant point of difference, to me?


I believe the made in USA 501's are close if not equal to the $150 MSRP at BB. The imported ones are ~$50, but those are imported.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

I've mostly been wearing Carharrt jeans for the last several years but added a pair of Levis 550s to my Zappos order last week on a whim. They are ok but I do not like the lighter weight fabric as well as the original. I could see myself paying $150 for a pair of 505s just like the ones I grew up wearing.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Luckycharmboi2 said:


> Let's face it, everyone needs a pair or two of jeans for certain things. Yardwork, home repair, sitting on an airplane, something. The sad part of the story is that 501s used to be made in the US; they were an American icon. (Remember the old "$500 for a pair of 501s in Russia" stories). And, they were quite cheap ($20-30 when I was growing up) Sadly, 501s are now made in Mexico or worse yet China. Even some of the other Jeans formerly made in the US (such as Lucky) are now being made offshore (I saw some made in Vietnam pairs in a store recently). So, it's getting to the point where an American icon is no longer made anywhere in America, and that is a shame.
> 
> I'm glad to see U.S. made 501s wherever they are sold. I applaud BB bringing back the true icon, and I don't think it spells the demise of BB. BB already carries casual clothing, and it's perfectly fine for them to carry a jeans line to be a full service men's clothier. Question is, will I drop $148 for a pair of 501s next time I need a pair of jeans? Not sure at this moment, but leaning toward "yes." Only if we're willing to pay more for US made garments will we keep any clothing production in the U.S. Otherwise, we'll eventually have no choice at all but to get our clothing from Asia, and in certain cases it's getting harder and harder not to do so.
> 
> David.


David, I'm afraid your passion is a bit misguided. First of all jeans are a working man icon (e.g construction workers), and BB is worn mostly by classy professionals. I understand that clothes made in the US are of high quality and should retail slightly higher than imported ones. Why didn't Levi's bring their own American icon back at more reasonable price?! This jeans seems to be a BB jeans with a Levi's label, BB should have labeled it BB. Now, Levi's are known to sell jeans for $40-$50 and their selvedge jeans for $130-$150. The Levi's marketed by BB is only advertised as made in the US and nothing else, which is not enough to justify the price. Even if it's of slightly better quality than regular 501's, there's no reason to raise the price 3 times. I am not concerned about its price at all, fashion brands tend to be relatively overpriced which is understandable, but bastardizing BB (high class) with Levi's (working class) is unacceptable.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Unacceptable? Really? It's _that_ important?

An American clothing company selling American clothing is not really a headline let alone "unacceptable." If you really think that jeans have no place in a "classy" wardrobe you need to get out of the house more.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

camorristi said:


> ...bastardizing BB (high class) with Levi's (working class) is unacceptable.


Who still retains these outmoded distinctions? I mean besides you.

This just in: "Classy professionals" wear...all sorts of stuff. Including jeans. Especially handsome jeans, dark inky ones. Especially in certain situations and occasions.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Shouldn't we have much more unimportant things to talk about? I can't believe this thread has gone this far. By the time that we are done, these jeans will be on sale. :icon_smile_big:


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

But will I be able to stack discounts?


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Joe Beamish said:


> Who still retains these outmoded distinctions? I mean besides you.


Well, me for one. Honestly, I don't know anyone in my demographic (professional, age 45-55, mid-size Southern city) who would wear blue jeans to a public gathering. Well, maybe a couple of "arty" types, but not many.

Jeans do have their place. I have two or three pairs. But to me paying $150 for jeans would be like buying a $50,000 Ford Focus.

Scott


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Naval Gent said:


> Well, me for one. Honestly, I don't know anyone in my demographic (professional, age 45-55, mid-size Southern city) who would wear blue jeans to a public gathering. Well, maybe a couple of "arty" types, but not many.


That's exactly what I expect of our demographic.

When I was in JB's demo a decade or so ago, I thought just like he did!!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Naval Gent said:


> Honestly, I don't know anyone in my demographic (professional, age 45-55, mid-size Southern city) who would wear blue jeans to a public gathering.


I live in a Southern city and jeans are quite common at public gatherings among the demographic you describe. Maybe not as common as khakis (depends on the nature of the gathering), but not uncommon.

Cruiser


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> I live in a Southern city and jeans are quite common at public gatherings among the demographic you describe. Maybe not as common as khakis (depends on the nature of the gathering), but not uncommon.
> 
> Cruiser


I didn't say jeans weren't common. They are indeed painfully common. But I just don't go to many events where a 50 year old man would be wearing blue jeans. And at venues like the couple of ball games I attend a year, the people wearing jeans aren't the people _I know_. I suppose it all depends on your perspective, as WouldaShoulda points out...

Scott


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Naval Gent said:


> I just don't go to many events where a 50 year old man would be wearing blue jeans. And at venues like the couple of ball games I attend a year, the people wearing jeans aren't the people _I know_.


Of course at certain type events most folks don't wear jeans, but most of the people I know certainly don't hesitate to wear jeans to things like ball games; and most of the people I know are 50+ year old professional people. I'm talking about attorneys, elected officials, retired military officers, etc.. In fact I was recently at an event with two retired Army Colonels and they both had on jeans.

I guess we just know different people. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> That's exactly what I expect of our demographic.
> 
> When I was in JB's demo a decade or so ago, I thought just like he did!!


I'm older than you think


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

CM Wolff said:


> This is BB's challenge now....the BB Levi's ARE better quality - I've checked them out at the store and they clearly are not the 501's you will get anywhere else in terms of craftsmanship or materials. HOWEVER, attaching the Levi's name to them automatically brings the jeans downmarket as far as pricing expectations go. So while these jeans are clearly equal to or superior to the jeans BB has previously sold for $148, BB now has to overcome the expectations gap on the pricing just because of the Levi's association. Maybe as more customers try these things out in the store, the tide will change. Until then, though, internet message boards are going to start with the expectation that these are standard Levi's, which is a flawed assumption.
> 
> Personally, I won't buy ANY jean for $148, but this is not the fiasco that it is being made out to be.


Levi's is trying to UP their branding. J CREW is selling their standard foreign made 501's for $98 - Lot's of places selling the high end Levi's now (Red Label, etc) as well. Now they are teaming up with Filson on the Levi's Work Wear Line...

I like the standard J Crew Vintage Slim Jeans, but normally have to pay $90 for them - at least they are Made In Canada (which always makes me happier than something made in Latin America or Asia for some reason).

Just paid $33 for pair of Levi's 514 Jeans - which is not bad - they're a little tight but should stretch a bit. Fit is pretty close to the J Crew Vintage Slim - these are not 'skinny' jeans - simply slimmer fit than your standard jean.


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