# western boots with a suit



## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

There is an old thread on the issue of Cowboy Boots with suits.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?104025-Cowboy-boots

I'm curious if opinions have changed. I have a hearing this Thursday in a medium sized city in kansas. The other lawyer is from Western Kansas and I'm sure he occasionally wears cowboy boots. I have never appeared before the judge (he is new), but he is what we call around here, "a good ole boy" You can probably imagine the type. I think he fits into the mold of the backslapper, loud, country lawyer who sprinkles his conversations with funny sayings.

I think I might want to try some cowboy boots with my suit. Any thoughts?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Drop by today or tomorrow and see what he wears and what those around him wear. Otherwise I would be reluctant to adopt a regional costume.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Depends on the area, here in Texas it's obviously a very common thing. I wouldn't object to them down here and have actually considered a pair of Lucchese dress boots myself, but it's something I wouldn't do personally outside of Texas.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

arkirshner said:


> Drop by today or tomorrow and see what he wears and what those around him wear. Otherwise I would be reluctant to adopt a regional costume.


Well the Judge is an hour away, and the other lawyer is 2.5 hours away. So, I can't really just drop by. Okay, I could. But, I don't want to.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

orange fury said:


> Depends on the area, here in Texas it's obviously a very common thing. I wouldn't object to them down here and have actually considered a pair of Lucchese dress boots myself, but it's something I wouldn't do personally outside of Texas.


I don't know that there is that huge a difference between western kansas and Texas. Except for more money and I don't see cowboy hats much out there.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I don't know that there is that huge a difference between western kansas and Texas. Except for more money and I don't see cowboy hats much out there.


I don't think there's much of a difference necessarily, we just have a reputation to uphold lol.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Western boots are worn with suits many places in the West, including courtrooms, businesses, state legislatures and academic settings. I offer some advice to those who are considering it. First, learn about the great variety of materials, fits, heel configurations, etc., and then buy a pair to wear with jeans and practice walking in them until you are, and appear, comfortable. Then, if you still want to wear a pair with a suit, do it.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

godan said:


> Western boots are worn with suits many places in the West, including courtrooms, businesses, state legislatures and academic settings. I offer some advice to those who are considering it. First, learn about the great variety of materials, fits, heel configurations, etc., and then buy a pair to wear with jeans and practice walking in them until you are, and appear, comfortable. Then, if you still want to wear a pair with a suit, do it.


I've had boots for years. Growing up in southern Missouri and then moving to Kansas, I've had boots since I was 5. I only have 3 pairs of boots. But, I guess if I start wearing them more, I can get more.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Not true. Many westerners who are trad wear cowboy boots.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Meh, I would agree wholeheartedly that it's not "ivy" or "prep", but if your definition of "trad" is "traditional", then boots are very traditional in my area. You can easily find pictures of men in sack suits and dress boots from the 40's and 50's (my grandfather, for example)


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

orange fury said:


> Meh, I would agree wholeheartedly that it's not "ivy" or "prep", but if your definition of "trad" is "traditional", then boots are very traditional in my area.


Let's not go there again.

A lot of what I wear isn't "Trad" as defined here (capital "T" on purpose). However, I know it.


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

Other folks are right: this is entirely appropriate, if it's appropriate in the community. 

Having indulged in my tautology of the day, I wish you success, counselor.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Personally, I'd start with a bolo tie the first time and save the boots for a latter appearance.


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

arkirshner said:


> Drop by today or tomorrow and see what he wears and what those around him wear. Otherwise *I would be reluctant to adopt a regional costume.*


Regional Costume???? Them's fightin' words Pardner!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I wouldn't do it. If it doesn't feel "you", it's probably going to show. Be yourself.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

orange fury said:


> Meh, I would agree wholeheartedly that it's not "ivy" or "prep", but if your definition of "trad" is "traditional", then boots are very traditional in my area. You can easily find pictures of men in sack suits and dress boots from the 40's and 50's (my grandfather, for example)


I don't think trad means traditional. But, I also don't think trad is exclusively IVY either. What about trad in California and the surfer culture that also has ivy influences.

Trad in the south is different simply because of the weather. Trad in the Northwest is different because of the weather. Trad in New Haven is different than it is in Maine, or Memphis, or Chicago.

At least that's my opinion. If Trad really means Ivy, then a lot of people are doing it wrong.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Topsider said:


> A lot of what I wear isn't "Trad" as defined here (capital "T" on purpose). However, I know it.


I agree with that. I prefer to wear point collars with ties. I know that it is not trad. But, I like it and I'm not trying to convince anyone that it is trad.


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Sir,
You are concerning yourself with the wrong aspects of the matter. The case at hand is what matters. How you are dressed to present the facts is not anyone's principle concern.
Boots and suits go together in serious proceedings just fine. They wear them in congress, and they have been adopted by gentlemen and ladies around the world.
Bolo ties and fancy belts as well.
Be of good cheer,
rudy


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I agree with that. I prefer to wear point collars with ties. I know that it is not trad. But, I like it and I'm not trying to convince anyone that it is trad.


Uhh...

Point collars are trad. I mean, if you look at a photo of guys in TNSIL suits, in a TNSIL setting, a number of them are gonna be in point collars.

Sorry.

Western boots ain't TNSIL, how's that?


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## Richardvin (Aug 5, 2014)

Done well:crazy:


Nobleprofessor said:


> I agree with that. I prefer to wear point collars with ties. I know that it is not trad. But, I like it and I'm not trying to convince anyone that it is trad.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

All right here's what I'll do. I'll wear one cowboy boot, one bass Weejun, in a 3/2 sack suit, but with a point collar broadcloth, wearing a repp stripe tie, but it will be a clip on. I'll drive to Court in a Volvo wagon, but I'll listen to Conway Twitty on the radio. I'll affect a Harvard accent, during my argument but I'll say ya'll and call the court reporter darlin' . while I am waiting in the Courtroom I'll flip through an LL Bean catalog AND a copy of Guns and Ammo. 

Just kidding.  

I do appreciate the suggestions and advice! Maybe I'll just wear the boots to the office and see if I even like them. I don't want to screw up my mojo because I'm worried about my footwear!


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Jewish intellectuals at New England universities have long worn western boots whilst engaging in intellectual combat : https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/mideast-israel-jewish_sham.jpg

https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/12-5733-davidbyrne-120.jpg


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I don't think trad means traditional. But, I also don't think trad is exclusively IVY either. What about trad in California and the surfer culture that also has ivy influences.
> 
> Trad in the south is different simply because of the weather. Trad in the Northwest is different because of the weather. Trad in New Haven is different than it is in Maine, or Memphis, or Chicago.
> 
> At least that's my opinion. If Trad really means Ivy, then a lot of people are doing it wrong.


Yes, Trad _really_ means Ivy. As in undarted jackets, 2" cuffs, penny loafers, flat-front pants, surcingle belts, OCBDs, repp and other conservative ties, lots of woolens and cottons - that sort of thing. The true regional debate on this forum, to me, is whether you prefer to wear more wool and more muted colors as found in the Northeast or whether you prefer more cotton and brighter colors as found in the South. And yes, there are variants and offshoots - the Preppie movement of the early 1980's, for instance. It's pretty easy to tell what's Trad and what isn't.

Just keep this in mind: brown suits may be traditional in Chicago, western wear may be traditional the Southwest, and the California surfer culture may have traditional clothing that dates back to the immediate postwar era, and The Men's Warehouse may be a much better place to buy conservative clothing than this Forum ever gives it credit for. . . but none of these are in the Trad canon.

Hope this helps.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

I think it's best if I don't say whether this really helps or not. I'll leave the debate as to what is trad and what is not to others. I went to a state school so I am ill-equipped to determine what is Ivy.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

^^

Ivy clothing transcends what what was worn on Ivy League campuses. It's like how you don't have to go to Hamburg to get a hamburger.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> ^^
> 
> Ivy clothing transcends what what was worn on Ivy League campuses. It's like how you don't have to go to Hamburg to get a hamburger.


I don't understand if trad is really Ivy why isn't it just called Ivy? Why have a new word?


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I went to a state school so I am ill-equipped to determine what is Ivy.


No more ill-equipped than the majority of ivy leaguers matriculating from the 1970s onwards, I'd warrant.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

My tenth grade math teacher was a recent Dartmouth grad. He came back to us saying that we needed to 'get with' what the Ivy League was wearing if we intended to go to college and announced that Pendleton shirts were 'out'. No one in my graduating class was headed to the Ivy League anyway so we ignored him. After all, this was California, and Pendleton shirts were damned near a uniform--even if you didn't surf!


eta: that was 1962


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I don't understand if trad is really Ivy why isn't it just called Ivy? Why have a new word?


Read the original post that began this forum for the answer to your question.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Noble, I don't consider "Ivy League" and "Trad" interchangeable for what it's worth. Trad, to me, seems to be a smorgasbord of Ivy League from the '50s-'60s, Preppy from the '70s-'80s, and various other things deemed "all-American" by online menswear forums, including New England styles like Nantucket Reds and Bean Boots.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Jovan said:


> Noble, I don't consider "Ivy League" and "Trad" interchangeable for what it's worth. Trad, to me, seems to be a smorgasbord of Ivy League from the '50s-'60s, Preppy from the '70s-'80s, and various other things deemed "all-American" by online menswear forums, including New England styles like Nantucket Reds and Bean Boots.


Thank you that's the best explanation of it, I have read.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

bd79cc said:


> Read the original post that began this forum for the answer to your question.


I did -- before I joined. It did not say Trad is really Ivy.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Still thinking about the boots:


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## Fiddlermatt (Jul 3, 2013)

Western boots with suits is a common look around here. It looks best, in my opinion, when the boots are plain toed ropers without any stitching on the shaft.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Still thinking about the boots:


Stop posting pictures and get ready for tomorrow.

Good luck.

Regards,

Alan


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

That would be my choice, Fiddler, if only for the reason that my aging body can no longer tolerate the raised heel of what are usually considered Western. A couple of hours on me feet in those and it's time to reach for the Aleve. 

Well put, Jovan. While there is a general understanding that Trad, as we use the term here, is just as you say, we are all in agreement that there are distinct regional differences. Interestingly, you can pretty much wear 'received Trad' anywhere but if you try and go around in Rocky Mountain, Puget Sound or West Coast Surfer Trads outside of their home country, you will look a little odd and probably get some odd looks. Such is life.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

arkirshner said:


> Stop posting pictures and get ready for tomorrow.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> ...


good advice. Last post on this. I didn't like pair. Too pointy.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Update: 

The judge did not wear boots. But, he wore a tan poplin cowboy suit. Oddly, he had very nice cap toe oxfords that I think were Ferragamos. The other attorney wore all brown. Brown three button suit (not 3/2), but a HIGH 3 button, brown shirt, brown tie, and burgundy loafers. It was very odd.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

You city slicker.


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> That would be my choice, Fiddler, if only for the reason that my aging body can no longer tolerate the raised heel of what are usually considered Western. A couple of hours on me feet in those and it's time to reach for the Aleve.


Try Roper style, more like shoes than boots.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Come the day when my shoe rack requires a pair of boots, that's what I intend to get. In fact, I've been looking at a couple of packages where they take you out gator hunting for two days and then send you home with an ice chest full of gator tail meat, a pair of gater hide boots and a matching belt. will happily make the boots in roper style if you want and as restrained or garish as you need. Possibilities, possibilities . . .


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Are you a cowboy or some other sort of equestrian?


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)




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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

With a conservatively-cut suit, no, UNLESS if you live or if you're actually from a region that wears Western boots with business wear. Otherwise, I'd say it looks best with a Western-cut suit (yokes, and the like), presuming that you're wearing it in an acceptable environment. Of course, if you do wear Western boots, you better be wearing a Western hat and have a string tie in your wardrobe.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Orsini said:


> Are you a cowboy or some other sort of equestrian?


No. To me horses are like expensive imported sports cars. I enjoy looking at them but have no wish to own any. And if it I did they would not be the sort to wear Lucchese fancy boots with.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Quetzal said:


> With a conservatively-cut suit, no, UNLESS if you live or if you're actually from a region that wears Western boots with business wear. Otherwise, I'd say it looks best with a Western-cut suit (yokes, and the like), presuming that you're wearing it in an acceptable environment. Of course, if you do wear Western boots, you better be wearing a Western hat and have a string tie in your wardrobe.


In over forty years in the Rocky Mountains and the Northern Plains, I have often seen boots worn with business suits. Western-type suits and bolo ties are quite rare in business settings. It may be different in the Southwest. Cowboy hats are everywhere, including on the heads of those who are, as we say, "All hat and no cattle."


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

godan said:


> [. . .] Western-type suits and bolo ties [. . . .]


That's called Fruitcake Western around here.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

bd79cc said:


> That's called Fruitcake Western around here.


Delightful and appropriate. Had not heard it before.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

godan said:


> In over forty years in the Rocky Mountains and the Northern Plains, I have often seen boots worn with business suits. Western-type suits and bolo ties are quite rare in business settings. It may be different in the Southwest. Cowboy hats are everywhere, including on the heads of those who are, as we say, "All hat and no cattle."


In the region that you describe, that atleast makes sense; in some urban areas of Wisconsin, I see men choosing to wear Western boots instead of proper shoes with their suit, and no hat.

On another note, does anyone know if string ties (NOT Bolos, I mean those that tied into a bow like the Colonel's) are worn in the Southwest in business settings?


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

^As someone in a Western-ish state, I have never seen a string tie worn in a serious environment (or any environment, except for this really hipster wedding a friend of mine attended, where string ties were worn 'ironically' by the groomsmen). Boots with suits aren't the norm, but can be seen with some regularity. The boots are usually nicer models made for dressing up, such as a highly polished Lucchese, etc. In fact, my usual downtown shop that sells Southwick, Samuelsohn, Alden, etc also carries Lucchese and makes quite a few orders of custom pairs for local businessmen. 

EDIT: Likewise, I've never seen a "western cut" suit used in business. Any suits I have have seen with boots have been pretty standard, 2 button darted models.


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## Carguy (Nov 29, 2012)

For what it's worth, I've lived in Texas nearly all my life. There was a time when I wouldn't have been caught dead in a suit, thinking I wanted to be a rodeo cowboy. That being said, I'd wear a pair of Lucchese alligator boats with any suit I own today - anywhere in this country. The hell with folks if they didn't like it! :rolleyes2:


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Carguy said:


> For what it's worth, I've lived in Texas nearly all my life. There was a time when I wouldn't have been caught dead in a suit, thinking I wanted to be a rodeo cowboy. That being said, I'd wear a pair of Lucchese alligator boats with any suit I own today - anywhere in this country. The hell with folks if they didn't like it! :rolleyes2:


if my Lucchese boots were alligator, I would wear them A LOT. Mine are calfskin or Goat. I want the ones Keanu Reeves wore as the young lawyer in The Devil's Advocate. Or maybe these:


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## Carguy (Nov 29, 2012)

Nobleprofessor said:


> if my Lucchese boots were alligator, I would wear them A LOT. Mine are calfskin or Goat. I want the ones Keanu Reeves wore as the young lawyer in The Devil's Advocate. Or maybe these:


Those are nice, but I should have qualified my post to say that I can't afford either pair at $2K +, but I'd certainly wear them if I had them!


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Carguy said:


> Those are nice, but I should have qualified my post to say that I can't afford either pair at $2K +, but I'd certainly wear them if I had them!


Neither can I! I have some very expensive shoes, but I bought them at estate sales or thrift stores. Before I got into thrifting, the MOST expensive pair of shoes I had actually bought was a pair of AE Park Avenues and that was when I was interviewing during Law School. They were on sale and I thought we were going to have to eat Mac and cheese for a month to make up the $.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Oldsarge said:


> No. To me horses are like expensive imported sports cars. I enjoy looking at them but have no wish to own any. And if it I did they would not be the sort to wear Lucchese fancy boots with.


Sorry, I meant the OP. I hope no offense taken.

I think unless you are somehow associated with horses, then western boots might not be a hot idea for square business. But if I were going to wear them, I'd wear a western hat too.

Very nice horsies...


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I love the big pullers . . .


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## Mrharristweedmbe (Jul 27, 2014)

Just about half of all the the members of the church I attend wear western boots with a suit. Depends on the style of boot though.


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Gentlemen,
The questions to be considered are whether the case was won, whether that was a good and sound result for society, and whether attire had any influence in the result, which one doubts that it did. We await the news...
Regards to you all and good evening,
rudy


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

RM Bantista said:


> Gentlemen,
> The questions to be considered are whether the case was won, whether that was a good and sound result for society, and whether attire had any influence in the result, which one doubts that it did. We await the news...
> Regards to you all and good evening,
> rudy


Thoughtful, as always. We do not hear from you often enough.

Regards,

Alan


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

RM Bantista said:


> Gentlemen,
> The questions to be considered are whether the case was won, whether that was a good and sound result for society, and whether attire had any influence in the result, which one doubts that it did. We await the news...
> Regards to you all and good evening,
> rudy


It was a judicial settlement conference (i.e. Mediation). So, it wasn't a matter of win or lose. The case did not settle. But, I did spend a few hours with a Judge that I had not met before. My client stood her ground and showed she wasn't going to fold, I learned the defendants best arguments, and we now know how far they are willing to go.

Im sure my attire had no impact. The only impact it could have had is IF I showed up not appropriately dressed.


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

bd79cc said:


> That's called Fruitcake Western around here.


Never heard that one, we called them "Rexalls" after the Sommer's Rexall Drugstore.... (Drugstore Cowboys)

*drugstore cowboy
*_a person who dresses like a cowboy but has never worked as one.

_


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Nobleprofessor said:


> It was a judicial settlement conference (i.e. Mediation). So, it wasn't a matter of win or lose. The case did not settle. But, I did spend a few hours with a Judge that I had not met before. My client stood her ground and showed she wasn't going to fold, I learned the defendants best arguments, and we now know how far they are willing to go.
> 
> Im sure my attire had no impact. The only impact it could have had is IF I showed up not appropriately dressed.


Sir,
Thank you for the update, and one is certain that the client is well represented.
Good fortune follow you,
rudy


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## Captain America (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm in Illinois. The only folks here who wear cowboy boots are either little kids or Mexicans who came up here going after the Seignor Grande look. The first get smiles from people. The second do as well.

If you were doing law here and wearing cowboy boots, I think it'd be risible.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

My views on cowboy boots with a suit can be succinctly summarized:

With a Western-cut suit, they are essential. (And Western-cut suits are best reserved for real Westerners in the real West.)

Otherwise, anomalous, eccentric and best shunned.

FWIW, legendary Texas Ranger Frank Hamer (the guy who popped Bonnie and Clyde) always wore shoes with a suit, and you can't get more Western than a Texas Ranger!


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