# Student Suspended for Violating Dress Code ... by Wearing Jacket & Tie



## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

https://www.naplesnews.com/news/2007/aug/23/golden_gate_high_school_student_gets_school_suspen/

The end of civilization is upon us.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Phinn said:


> https://www.naplesnews.com/news/2007/aug/23/golden_gate_high_school_student_gets_school_suspen/
> 
> The end of civilization is upon us.


We have fallen off the end of the earth. Beyond this place there be dragons!


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

As a general principle, I don't agree with dress codes, at school or work.

Nevertheless, these kids didn't exceed the code, they violated it. I know that in part schools adopt codes to keep out offensive or inappropriately revealing dress, but some schools also adopt codes or uniforms to avoid the obvious economic stratification that some clothing choices can establish. Allowing the clothing choices these students made defeats the purpose of this particular code.

Plus, having been there myself, I recognize an act of teenage defiance when I see one, don't you?


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> As a general principle, I don't agree with dress codes, at school or work.
> 
> Nevertheless, these kids didn't exceed the code, they violated it. I know that in part schools adopt codes to keep out offensive or inappropriately revealing dress, but some schools also adopt codes or uniforms to avoid the obvious economic stratification that some clothing choices can establish. Allowing the clothing choices these students made defeats the purpose of this particular code.
> 
> Plus, having been there myself, I recognize an act of teenage defiance when I see one, don't you?


But that's the very essence of youth. I say good for them! Wearing a jacket & tie to class doesn't hurt anyone, and if the school has nothing better to do than to discipline students for overdressing, I'd say they have way too much time on their hands.

The world is comprised of two groups: those who follow the rules and those who don't. Throughout history you'd be hard pressed to name anyone of significance who fell completely into that first category.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> As a general principle, I don't agree with dress codes, at school or work.
> 
> Nevertheless, these kids didn't exceed the code, they violated it. I know that in part schools adopt codes to keep out offensive or inappropriately revealing dress, but some schools also adopt codes or uniforms to avoid the obvious economic stratification that some clothing choices can establish. Allowing the clothing choices these students made defeats the purpose of this particular code.
> 
> Plus, having been there myself, I recognize an act of teenage defiance when I see one, don't you?


Wait just a minute! According to the kids the dress code is "business dress." And when I went to the golden gate Web site:

https://collier.k12.fl.us/ggh/studentsparents.html

All the Web site does is refer you to the district dress code. Nowhere do I see anything that would make a coat and tie a suspendable offense. Unless they buttoned up all three buttons, or something.

This is just a component of the great cultural dumbing down.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

I think we, as The League of Well-Dressed Gentlemen, should file a class-action lawsuit against the school, the school board and the school district for damages against the well-being of the nation.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Unreal. They even specify which color polos they can wear.

Brian


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

vwguy said:


> Unreal. They even specify which color polos they can wear.
> 
> Brian


We had certain colors that we could wear at my HS also. I would not have been able to wear a jacket and tie to school either, as it was not part of our uniform.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I agree with Jack about the teenage rebellion thing. They asked for it and they got what they asked for.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Liberty Ship said:


> Wait just a minute! According to the kids the dress code is "business dress." And when I went to the golden gate Web site:
> 
> https://collier.k12.fl.us/ggh/studentsparents.html
> 
> ...


You have to follow a number of links to get to the dress code for this school, and it does not call for "business dress". It does require clothing as described by the administration in the news story.

Here's the link to the school-specific dress code: https://collier.k12.fl.us/ggh/docs/DressCode.pdf

As I said, I don't like dress codes, but these kids are not being honest.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> You have to follow a number of links to get to the dress code for this school, and it does not call for "business dress". It does require clothing as described by the administration in the news story.
> 
> Here's the link to the school-specific dress code: https://collier.k12.fl.us/ggh/docs/DressCode.pdf
> 
> As I said, I don't like dress codes, but these kids are not being honest.


Ok. Thanks.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

You're welcome. It's pretty hard to track it down. The school's web page has a link for its dress code, which directs you to the district's dress code, then at the bottom of that page there is a link for school-specific codes, and when you follow that link you can find a link to the school's dress code. Hard to understand why they couldn't figure out how to make the information more accessible, isn't it?


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> some schools also adopt codes or uniforms to avoid the obvious economic stratification that some clothing choices can establish. Allowing the clothing choices these students made defeats the purpose of this particular code. ... I recognize an act of teenage defiance when I see one, don't you?


Da, comrade. Dee act of deefianz vill not be tolerated by dee committee.

Dee act of deefianz dat promotes dee economic stratification iz offense against dee proletariat.

Dee punishment vill zerefore be commuted in favor of re-education.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

What gets me is that on game days, "...cheerleaders may wear approved uniform tops only." You'd think that one would have produced more controversy.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Yeah, you'd think they'd let them wear skirts, or even pants.


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## Lucky Strike (Feb 23, 2006)

Concordia said:


> What gets me is that on game days, "...cheerleaders may wear approved uniform tops only." You'd think that one would have produced more controversy.


This thread is useless without photos.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

My stepson's high school had an even more stringent uniform policy than that. There might be some merit to the concept. The school was rated in the top 4% of American public high schools by Newsweek while he was there.

There was a movie "Freedom Writers" not long ago based on the experiences of a former teacher there. It portrayed Wilson as sort of blackboard jungle, which was far from the truth.

It does seem to me that the boys at Golden Gate high were "smarting off."


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

vwguy said:


> Unreal. They even specify which color polos they can wear.
> 
> Brian


That might have something to do with gangs...

A few co-workers of mine were just talking about a kind of riot (I guess police got involved and it was kind of a mess) that broke out at their neighborhood highschool over the fact that the kids are no longer allowed to wear "colors"...

...and to those defending the kid's actions...would you be so quick to defend if say...I dunno...obscene T-shirts or something??? were involved??? Jeez...for a group of guys who are so into "the rules"...I tell ya...


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> would you be so quick to defend if say...I dunno...obscene T-shirts or something??? were involved??? Jeez...for a group of guys who are so into "the rules"...I tell ya...


Damn the rules! Full Windsor ahead!


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Telling kids what colors and styles of clothing they should wear does not say "dress code" to me... it says "uniform". The students were out of uniform.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

On the one hand, I can see wanting to dress up a bit occasionally (I have a thread about doing it at work, where most of my colleges are in t shirts, untucked polos, jeans and sneakers). But on the other hand I can also see the school wanting to keep dress a little more upscale than jeans and tube tops, t shirts that advocate the overthrow of society or the legalization of... well, whatever is illegal, etc.

Personally I think the school should have just said what is NOT acceptable (which I don't think should include a jacket and tie if you are so inclined). Outlaw jeans, sneakers, tops that celebrate a slut-roll, t shirts, and so on. I see no problem with the very minimum being khakis, tucked in shirts (polo or buttondown), real shoes.

This part goes a little too far, however:



> The shirts must be 3 inches below the waist, which is school board policy.


Do they stick a ruler down the kids' pants?


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

Instituted mediocrity--a level playing field for everyone; a socialist-scheme?

I find it interesting that among the colors allowed for shirts are green (an implicit political statement?) and PINK (construe that one as you will), but not blue. Considering that it is San Francisco, none of this surprises me. I wonder whether or not jackets and ties are disallowed _verbatim_, and how "professional" or business clothing can be described as including polo shirts. Does the school have a professional polo team?

Knowing how teachers and principals dress these days, they must have been awfully threatened by what was perceived as a gang of young folks dressed ten times better than they were. Not to mention the implied conservatism, anathema to the teachers' unions.



> This was a group of students who had been talked to before," he said. "Because there was a group of them, it sort of brought more attention to it.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

But he wasn't being indecent or anything,At least he dressed proper.


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## Desk Jockey (Aug 19, 2005)

The Wife said:


> I find it interesting that among the colors allowed for shirts are green (an implicit political statement?) and PINK (construe that one as you will), but not blue. Considering that it is San Francisco, none of this surprises me. I wonder whether or not jackets and ties are disallowed _verbatim_, and how "professional" or business clothing can be described as including polo shirts. Does the school have a professional polo team?


Here's a fun fact: the school is in Florida.

As well, the student body there is majority, albeit slim, Hispanic with 48% eligible for reduced rate lunches. Odds are, when a public school institutes a uniform policy there's not the intent to ape Andover but rather to combat overt gang activity. Red and blue are colors oft sported by gangs.

Now I've never been to that school (or to that state in the last 5 years) so I could be up a creek without a paddle about the "environment" there. Something makes me think that a Floridian might have a better handle on that.

But aside from that: have you ever seen a group of hoods running about in pink?


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Desk Jockey said:


> Here's a fun fact: the school is in Florida.
> 
> As well, the student body there is majority, albeit slim, Hispanic with 48% eligible for reduced rate lunches. Odds are, when a public school institutes a uniform policy there's not the intent to ape Andover but rather to combat overt gang activity. Red and blue are colors oft sported by gangs.
> 
> ...


The Pink Ladies?

Also this: https://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2004-04-01-pink-protest_x.htm


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

vwguy said:


> Unreal. They even specify which color polos they can wear.


That's sort of the point of a uniform.



The Wife said:


> Instituted mediocrity--a level playing field for everyone; a socialist-scheme?


The interesting thing in Britain, where school uniforms are still the norm, is that they have widespead support on both the left and right. The right likes them because they suggest discipline and tradition. The left likes them because they put everyone on the same footing, and prevent competition and oneupmanship among the kids based on what they wear.


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

jackmccullough said:


> As a general principle, I don't agree with dress codes, at school or work.
> 
> Nevertheless, these kids didn't exceed the code, they violated it. I know that in part schools adopt codes to keep out offensive or inappropriately revealing dress, but some schools also adopt codes or uniforms to avoid the obvious economic stratification that some clothing choices can establish. Allowing the clothing choices these students made defeats the purpose of this particular code.
> 
> Plus, having been there myself, I recognize an act of teenage defiance when I see one, don't you?


Target polo vs RL polo

economic stratification is still visable no matter what

It was probably teenage rebelion at least in part though.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Laxplayer said:


> The Pink Ladies?
> 
> Also this: https://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2004-04-01-pink-protest_x.htm


I don't see anything wrong with wearing "pink".It's just a color and it's not violating any dress codes.So I don't see anything wrong with wearing a color that stands out from other colors.


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## Desk Jockey (Aug 19, 2005)

Laxplayer said:


> The Pink Ladies?
> 
> Also this: https://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2004-04-01-pink-protest_x.htm


So didn't see that one coming...


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

No, there's nothing wrong with pink. My husband has several pink shirts, and no one but the foolishly suicidal would dare make any off-colour remarks to him about that. And, I am all for uniforms, and have rallied for them consistently in the past. What I find objectionable about the Florida (thank you for your _kind_ correction) school's "policy" is that it is both fuzzy and P.C. Uniforms at school solve and prevent a multitude of ills. For one thing, by dint of relieving the student body of irrelevant pressures and distractions, they promote concentration on mathematics, geography, spelling and grammar--things which _obviously_ aren't being focused upon enough anymore.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

It's hard to find, but it's not unclear or fuzzy. I don't know what you mean when you say it's "PC".

Here's the policy:

TOPS
3" below waist line (board policy)
Collared/Polostyle
with
sleeves - 3 buttons or less
Solid colors only - any color permitted EXCEPT black, blue, and red
Tucked in and cinched at the waist with a belt
BOTTOMS
Long pants
Shorts - walking shorts only
Skirts/dresses - same length as shorts
Fitted - no "baggies"
Belts required (belt loops on bottoms)
Jeans - blue or black only
Color choices:
Black, Khaki, Blue/black jeans
SHOES
Same as CCPS policy
OTHER ITEMS
No hooded sweatshirts or jackets
Shirts must be tucked in and cinched at the waist with a belt
Under shirts are permitted - must be within dress code colors
Game days - athletes, band members, and cheerleaders may wear approved uniform tops only
Friday's (Spirit Day) any
shirt, any color, permitted w/ a GGHS logo

https://collier.k12.fl.us/ggh/docs/DressCode.pdf


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

Three-button polo shirts described as "professional" dress? Light blue shirts proscribed? The plural word, "Fridays" now has an apostrophe? Not only do the students at *Golden Gate High School* need uniforms, but so do the teachers and their administration. Thanks for the link; it is very instructive.

*GOLDEN GATE HIGH SCHOOL*
*Approved Professional Dress Code*
*Effective August 2007*
TOPS
3" below waist line (board policy)
*Collared/Polostyle*
*with*
*sleeves - 3 buttons or less*
Solid colors only - *any color permitted EXCEPT black, blue*, and red
Tucked in and cinched at the waist with a belt
BOTTOMS
Long pants
Shorts - walking shorts only
Skirts/dresses - same length as shorts
Fitted - no "baggies"
Belts required (belt loops on bottoms)
*Jeans* - blue or black only
Color choices:
Black, Khaki, Blue/black jeans
SHOES
Same as CCPS policy
OTHER ITEMS
No hooded sweatshirts or jackets
Shirts must be tucked in and cinched at the waist with a belt
Under shirts are permitted - must be within dress code colors
Game days - athletes, band members, and cheerleaders may wear approved uniform tops only
*Friday's (Spirit Day) any*​*shirt, any color, permitted w/ a GGHS logo*

*Oh, and political correctness is involved because, as I said before, the children are being forced to dress as lousily as the teachers! And, when any shade of blue is proscribed, even baby blue, well, that is very suspicious. *


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## bigdukesix (May 18, 2007)

I can understand the idea that uniforms level the playing field in class. The problem is, kids just find another measuring stick. I have a niece who is a freshman in high school where uniforms are a requirement. Instead of clothing, girls just pay attention to handbags, sunglasses, etc.

My niece just dumped quite a bit of money(which she earned herself) on a new Coach bag for the fall.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I presume the prohibitions on red and blue shirts exist because those are the trademark colors of the Bloods and the Crips.

The prohibition on black has me somewhat baffled, however. I can't imagine that there are many followers of Il Duce at contemporary American high schools. In fact, I suspect all too few students would even know who Benito Mussolini was, sad to say.

Can anyone enlighten me as to the prohibition of black shirts (except on grounds of general good taste, which I doubt was operative here)?


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

JLibourel said:


> Can anyone enlighten me as to the prohibition of black shirts (except on grounds of general good taste, which I doubt was operative here)?


Just a guess, but perhaps the Trenchcoat Mafia, who sported lots of black including the trenchcoats, of Columbine fame are responsible.

Either that or Sir Oswald Mosley has gained a considerable and entirely unexpected following among today's adolescents.


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