# small divot in NEW SHELL CORDOVAN: acceptable or unacceptable



## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

Hello Gang,
I recently received my long coveted pair of cigar shell ptb from Alden Sand Francisco (Great sales team there by the way).

I may be nit picking, but *during their maiden voyage,* I discovered a very *small divot in the shell*. I know this was not caused by me knocking them or something because the inside of the shell that is exposed is cigar colored and not naked shell.
In any event, I just want to gather opinions as to whether this is acceptable or if I should be concerned. I can probably deal with a small divot, *but the small concern is that it may become larger with time and develop into a crack.*

what say you all? forget it, inquire about repair?

Large Pictures for Empirical Study (Sorry, its necessary):
Before, upon discovery:










after vigorous brushing and the spoon method:










In context:


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Not only is it acceptable, but it's desirable. Any natural material is enhanced by natural characteristics as well as those added through manufacture or wear. Just add more wear and tear and they'll really start to look good.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

Trip English said:


> Not only is it acceptable, but it's desirable. Any natural material is enhanced by natural characteristics as well as those added through manufacture or wear. Just add more wear and tear and they'll really start to look good.


Thanks for your input trip. I always appreciate your perspectives.

I am about to pm you on a different point of interest, you might enjoy.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

I just realized I'm not nearly as picky as I thought I was


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

Racer said:


> I just realized I'm not nearly as picky as I thought I was


; ) fair enough


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

That dime, however, is filthy and should be exchanged for a new one.


(-;


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## sjk (Dec 1, 2007)

Trip English said:


> Not only is it acceptable, but it's desirable. Any natural material is enhanced by natural characteristics as well as those added through manufacture or wear. Just add more wear and tear and they'll really start to look good.


I agree. It's a trivial imperfection, in my judgement, and will be less noticeable with the patina of age. Remember, you are to wear the shoes, not perform surgery with them. This little ding will let you relax when you wear them. Shell is not something that should promote OCD. (That's obsessive-compulsive disease, not to be confused with OCBD.)


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

sjk said:


> I agree. It's a trivial imperfection, in my judgement, and will be less noticeable with the patina of age. Remember, you are to wear the shoes, not perform surgery with them. This little ding will let you relax when you wear them. Shell is not something that should promote OCD. (That's obsessive-compulsive disease, not to be confused with OCBD.)


indeed 
I take your pt, but just be clear this is an actual break/cut in the surface, not a depression.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Trip English said:


> Not only is it acceptable, but it's desirable.


I definitely don't think it's desirable, but I'd have a hard time taking those shoes back. I'm not sure you can expect anything better, and I've seen much much worse from Alden so you'd be taking a risk to swap them.

Who did you work with in SF? I like Jim.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

joenobody0 said:


> I definitely don't think it's desirable, but I'd have a hard time taking those shoes back. I'm not sure you can expect anything better, and I've seen much much worse from Alden so you'd be taking a risk to swap them.
> 
> Who did you work with in SF? I like Jim.


I've seen worse too, which is part of why I pretty much accept this.

Jim is great.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I've seen pictures of Alden seconds from Shoemart or somewhere on this forum with lesser imperfections. I'm not saying that that nick is a big deal, but I'd be tempted to take them back and see what they said.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

joenobody0 said:


> I definitely don't think it's desirable, but I'd have a hard time taking those shoes back. I'm not sure you can expect anything better, and I've seen much much worse from Alden so you'd be taking a risk to swap them.
> 
> Who did you work with in SF? I like Jim.


Same here on returns, cordovan seems to never be perfect, and this is so minor I had to look hard at the enlargement. +1 on the SF staff, they spent 1/2 hour helping me on fit though I told them I might not order anything for quite some time.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

closerlook said:


> Hello Gang,
> I recently received my long coveted pair of cigar shell ptb from Alden Sand Francisco (Great sales team there by the way).
> 
> I may be nit picking, but *during their maiden voyage,* I discovered a very *small divot in the shell*. I know this was not caused by me knocking them or something because the inside of the shell that is exposed is cigar colored and not naked shell.
> ...


i would return


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

^^ even after wearing once?


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## Acacian (Jul 10, 2007)

A tiny nick smaller half the size of FDR's nose? I wouldn't sweat it.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

FWIW, I wouldn't accept a return/exchange on that shoe if I were the retailer. 

As an aside, the best thing that can happen to a new, expensive item is to have a small nick or ding happen quickly, suddenly, and upfront. It breaks your heart and makes you want to scream, but it also allows you to relax and enjoy the now not-so-shiny new item.

I bought a Ruger Red Label shotgun a number of years ago, the engraving was excellent and the wood stock had a stunning honey color with gorgeous flame and a little bit of fiddleback. One day, not long after purchase, I was standing at the range with the gun over my arm. I turned and smacked the buttstock up against the skeet house and put solid ding in the comb. I nearly cried. I've enjoyed that gun a lot more since.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mr. Mac said:


> FWIW, I wouldn't accept a return/exchange on that shoe if I were the retailer.
> .....


Indeed, a fair point, Mr Mac. That divot, as described by the OP, is quite small but, was discoverable prior to the "maiden voyage of that beautiful new pair of shell cordovans. From the pics, I think we all would agree that subsequent to that first wearing, the shoes are no longer salable as a new pair. That flaw should have been discovered prior to the first wearing and the resultant creasing of the shell and soiling of the soles! At this point it seems that all that is left is for closerlook to move on and enjoy the pair of shoes he has in hand.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

I guess I'm wondering if it goes all the way through or not - if it does, that would be worth returning for, because it affects the long-term weatherproofness. If not, it's no big deal.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

This thread should be a good example to everyone reading that *you must check your Alden shoes very carefully prior to wear*. You shouldn't need to look as closely as you do, but unfortunately that's the way it is.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

It bothers you enough to write a paragraph and take three pictures, so perhaps you _should_ get a different pair.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

It's a little late to shut the barn door now that the horse has escaped (yes, that's a joke), but, as Uncle Mac pointed out recently, the first phase of the break in period is to wear the new shoes indoors for_ two _days, in case you need to return them. However, since your main concern, closerlook, is that the little nick might get worse over time, I'd take the shoes back to at least see if there's something that can be done to prevent that, a little glue, or filler that a shoemaker might use. If, once they know that you're not demanding a new pair, they say don't bother, they're fine as is, you can set your mind at rest. The cosmetic defect, such as it is, is not noticeable, and you will soon stop noticing it yourself.


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## risk_reward (Aug 9, 2010)

Alfani has nicer leather in their shoes. Take them back.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Were they still unworn, I'd put this in the "return it if it bothers you" category. But you've accepted the shoes, flaw and all, by wearing them.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> Were they still unworn, I'd put this in the "return it if it bothers you" category. But you've accepted the shoes, flaw and all, by wearing them.


Yes, Unfortunetly, I think the flaw was covered over by the finish and it only became apparent through wearing them and the shoe flexing.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> Were they still unworn, I'd put this in the "return it if it bothers you" category. But you've accepted the shoes, flaw and all, by wearing them.


Yes, Unfortunetly, I think the flaw was covered over by the finish and it only became apparent through wearing them and the shoe flexing.


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## jimmyfingers (Sep 14, 2010)

Mannix said:


> It bothers you enough to write a paragraph and take three pictures, so perhaps you _should_ get a different pair.


Very true....it would be driving me crazy as well.

I recently bought a DMT sharpening hone and it showed up with a small place directly in the middle missing the diamond surfacing. The hone was to be used for straight razors and I posted a thread similar to this. I ended up sending it back to the company for a replacement hone.

If the shoes were already worn outside, the right thing would be to keep them. From what I understand, it sounds like they were already worn outside.

Dealing with this specific leather, it is not a big deal and could be seen as a beauty mark. Shoes are to be worn and are going to get scuffed/dinged no matter how careful they are.

As a retailer, I would have concern that you might of dinged them and now want a new pair. I am not calling you a liar and believe your story, but I am playing the side of the shoe store here. You accepted the shoe by wearing them.

I worked for a high end shoe retailer a few years back in grad school. You would not believe the shoes people would bring in demanding new ones.

I remember a while back Dicks Sporting Goods had a promotion where you could buy some type of protection plan that was around 30 dollars. You could wear out a pair of athletic shoes and bring them back 3 months later for a brand new pair. It wasn't BS either. My neighbor got tons of brand new shoes off this policy. If your model was d/c or they did not have it, you could pick out a different model of the same value.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

jimmyfingers said:


> If the shoes were already worn outside, the right thing would be to keep them. From what I understand, it sounds like they were already worn outside.
> 
> Dealing with this specific leather, it is not a big deal and could be seen as a beauty mark. Shoes are to be worn and are going to get scuffed/dinged no matter how careful they are.
> 
> As a retailer, I would have concern that you might of dinged them and now want a new pair. I am not calling you a liar and believe your story, but I am playing the side of the shoe store here. You accepted the shoe by wearing them.


I am inclined to agree with you on this. 
The last thing I want is for the store to take a hit, as we all take chances when buying things. And at this time, (as I indicated at the outset of the thread) I am not concerned with the cosmetics as much as I am with the potential weakness of the compromised area.

However, if this develops into a full fledged crack, and or breaches through the entirety of the leather I will be contacting the factory for a replacement.


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## El_Abogado (Apr 21, 2009)

This is a silly post and it is a silly post. If you need to ask strangers on the internet whether this is something worth raising with the manufacturer, the defect is not with the shoes but the wearer. . . .


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

El_Abogado said:


> This is a silly post and it is a silly post. If you need to ask strangers on the internet whether this is something worth raising with the manufacturer, the defect is not with the shoes but the wearer. . . .


Hey! Welcome to the Internet!


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

closerlook said:


> ^^ even after wearing once?


I would return with no wearings


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

mcarthur said:


> I would return with no wearings


precisely, sadly the divot was found only after wearing. 
I would venture to raise the possibility that it was caused by wear, but at no point in the history of my shell experience have I ever put a ding in a pair that breaches the surface of the shell.


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## wpking (Jul 13, 2010)

Keep them and stop worrying about it.


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

They will be damaged by you in some way sooner or later, no? What will you do then, buy a new pair?


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

You wore them, they're yours. Donate them to a homeless shelter. That will accomplish far more than this thread ever will.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Larsd4 said:


> Donate them to a homeless shelter.


That would be the ultimate waste, to be worn by someone who completely doesn't know how to care for it and completely doesn't give a hoot. If you MUST get rid of them, sell them on the forum or on Ebay. For cigar shell especially, you'll get hundreds of dollars even with the damage.

I would point out that just wearing the shoes once does not preclude any sort of return if the flaw is construction or design based - in fact, it's quite common. It is, however, prudent practice to give any new pair of shoes a thorough, up-close examination prior to even putting them on your foot for the first time, to avoid any accusations such as those that have been levied or assumed here that OP somehow did the damage himself.

FWIW, if the nick goes so far as to be an actual cut, I can't imagine what would cause such a small, well-defined-edge cut - it almost looks like a small tool mark, honestly, and I think anything so forceful as to cut the shell in everyday wearing would also produce ancillary damage that would be noticeable.


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## tlocke (Jan 9, 2010)

Since they will be scratched and scuffed soon enough with regular wear I would only be concerned if the defect is enough to lead to more serious damage to the shoe (other than this minor cosmetic issue). I don't know how to answer that other than to ask Alden or a trusted cobbler.


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## Dripp (Nov 11, 2005)

I was looking a little more closely at my split toe #8 cordovan shoes today and noticed quite a few small nicks inherent in the leather. Its clear that they were a natural part of the shell and I quite like the natural look it gives. And generally, my shoes take a beating around the office so its only a matter of time before they acquire some "character." I say wear them and enjoy them as that leather is quite tough.


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## ASF (Mar 6, 2006)

Years ago while boarding the METRA, the fellow boarding behind me (following to closely) hit my right foot with his duffle bag and pushed my 986 clad foot forward under the jagged edge of the train's galvanized staircase. The rough edge scratched 4-5 parallel lines into the tops of my shoe. He apologized, however, he had no clue to the damage his lack of attention caused.

When I got home, I wiped and polished my 986's with little immediate success. The lines slowly disappeared with wearing and additional polishing. 

Reading your post brought the memory to mind. I suggest you wear and enjoy your beautiful shoes in good health and know they are bound to get additional dings etc.
asf


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## well-kept (May 6, 2006)

TheWGP said:


> That would be the ultimate waste, to be worn by someone who completely doesn't know how to care for it and completely doesn't give a hoot.


An interesting assumption. In times like these, many homeless people have lived rather different lives until now.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

well-kept said:


> An interesting assumption. In times like these, many homeless people have lived rather different lives until now.


True enough - but the homeless I see at the Open Shelter here I go by weekly for work and at the one Salvation Army that's at the bottom of a men's shelter are, shall we say, definitely not in that category. It's true that people like you mention do exist; however, the odds of someone like that getting any donated item are infinitesimial - leading me to believe passing them on via the forum, if nothing else, would be the preferred solution. I do, however, apologize for being overbroad in my earlier statement!


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## cumberlandpeal (May 12, 2006)

Thirty years ago I was called to Jury duty and while waiting to be examined I placed my nearly new Peal & Co. lid-over briefcase under my seat only to notice later that the edge had been crushed by the chair. I am looking at the case now, across my office. It has been everywhere and it has made a lot of money with me hauling it around. I am looking at the creased corner remembering the day.

I recommend you chill on this teensy dink in your brand new shoes. One day they will be well worn and you will not be able to remember which ding was the one that caused you to ask the advice of strangers on the internet.


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## 1WB (Sep 25, 2008)

cumberlandpeal said:


> Thirty years ago I was called to Jury duty and while waiting to be examined I placed my nearly new Peal & Co. lid-over briefcase under my seat only to notice later that the edge had been crushed by the chair. I am looking at the case now, across my office. It has been everywhere and it has made a lot of money with me hauling it around. I am looking at the creased corner remembering the day.
> 
> I recommend you chill on this teensy dink in your brand new shoes. One day they will be well worn and you will not be able to remember which ding was the one that caused you to ask the advice of strangers on the internet.


This is a first-class reply. Well said.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

Larsd4 said:


> You wore them, they're yours. Donate them to a homeless shelter. That will accomplish far more than this thread ever will.


in the initial post, i made no indication that I was interested in loosing the shoe. I inquired about a possible repair.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

1WB said:


> This is a first-class reply. Well said.


good insight, indeed. but the the rhetorical jab at the end was unnecessary.


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

The Rambler said:


> It's a little late to shut the barn door now that the horse has escaped....


well....to be precise, the horse is dead!

I vote that you keep & enjoy these cordovans.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

AZTEC said:


> well....to be precise, the horse is dead!
> 
> I vote that you keep & enjoy these cordovans.


thanks aztec
though as i keep saying, I was never contemplating relieving myself of the shoes.


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## El_Abogado (Apr 21, 2009)

closerlook said:


> Hey! Welcome to the Internet!


Exactly. Clots with access to a keyboard and broadband, with a modicum of anonymity can ask stupid questions. Unless you are a cordovan fetishist -- which, as I re-read your post, I think you may be -- you are going to wear these shoes in the real world and things are going to happen to them. This divot is no different than the likely wear and tear you will receive. Quit looking for sympathy and agreement from total strangers. Either return them or wear them. Either way, take it offline and into the real world, not the Internets!


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

El_Abogado said:


> Exactly. Clots with access to a keyboard and broadband, with a modicum of anonymity can ask stupid questions. Unless you are a cordovan fetishist -- which, as I re-read your post, I think you may be -- you are going to wear these shoes in the real world and things are going to happen to them. This divot is no different than the likely wear and tear you will receive. Quit looking for sympathy and agreement from total strangers. Either return them or wear them. Either way, take it offline and into the real world, not the Internets!


You are the only member of this forum I've ever considered rude toward me.
And from what I can see on other threads you've posted in, your general demeanor, at least on the internet, is far from charming.
Please take your aggression elsewhere. 
This place, contrary to what you might think, is for camaraderie, stupid questions and all.


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## El_Abogado (Apr 21, 2009)

Lighten up, Francis. 



. It's the internet, quit kvetching. You've asked a question to a clear cut issue. Either return the shoes or wear them.

Oh, and please take your passive agression elsewhere. Camaradie and conviviality are two way streets. . . .


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

I sugest that you look for the post on the heated spoon and shoe wax method of covering a cut on shoe leather it will likely help to minimize the appearance of the divot.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Epaminondas said:


> I sugest that you look for the post on the heated spoon and shoe wax method of covering a cut on shoe leather it will likely help to minimize the appearance of the divot.


The OP said in his original post that he's already tried that.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

Orgetorix said:


> The OP said in his original post that he's already tried that.


So he did - didn't notice the caption under the photo - sorry.


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