# SMU fraternity Sigma Chi bans Cargo Shorts



## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

I thought you gentlemen would get a kick out of this.

"One SMU fraternity has decided to take a sartorial stance against an article of clothing that has been at the center of a national fashion debate – cargo shorts.
The garment typically made of khaki material with a plethora of pockets has acquired a recent stigma of being "un-cool."

Full story at


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

It's about time. What the devil are they carrying in those things?


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

After some of the stories I've heard of SMU's frats, I'm unlikely to give them credit for much, but well done, fellows.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Trad-ish said:


> "One SMU fraternity has decided to take a sartorial stance against an article of clothing that has been at the center of a national fashion debate - cargo shorts.
> The garment typically made of khaki material with a plethora of pockets has acquired a _recent_ stigma of being "un-cool."


recent?

They've been uncool for the better part of a decade now.

What's that line in Superbad? "Nobody's gotten [to third base] in cargo shorts since Vietnam"


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## chilton (Jul 16, 2008)

To ban something implies they have been a problem.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Pink and Green said:


> It's about time. What the devil are they carrying in those things?


A beer in each side pocket, plus two my hands, equals a start. And I was never in a frat.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL. Having developed a bit of a "love/hate" relationship with the cargo pants/pockets design, back in the 1960's, I'm inclined to agree with the SMU law student quoted in the article..."they sure are convenient. You can carry and get to a lot of stuff in those pockets!" True dat, they may be ugly but, they are/were convenient. Rather hate to see them go!


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I own a pair or two, but can't remember the last time I wore them. A pair of khaki shorts (or madras) always seems to be my choice in the summer. Yet, like BDU's, they have their place as workwear. Maybe if I were a rockclimber, or an archeologist, they would get more use. If a mechanic, I might even go with pants.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Good for the Sigma Chis. Cargo shorts look even worse on grown men, but they seem to be the choice of many.


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## SamKool (Mar 16, 2011)

gotta be an april fool's joke...


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Let's all hope flip flops are next to go!!


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

This is no April Fools joke at all. Although not in our by-laws, if someone is seen wearing cargo shorts they are instantly made fun of. I really like the idea. Young men and older men alike look ridiculous in cargo shorts.


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## ada8356 (Dec 14, 2007)

There was a time a few years ago when I had a difficult time finding non-cargo shorts. It seems that they are gradually fading though which is very welcome.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Interesting. Let's not forget that several fraternities at S.M.U. have private chefs in residence, according to a Wall street Journal report from last month: https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576145992429174566.html

Perhaps they'll invest in proper clothes for formals. Sadly, this is commonplace on today's campuses:

https://img228.imageshack.us/i/frat1i.jpg/

https://img709.imageshack.us/i/frat2.jpg/

These young ladies should be embarrassed.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

hockeyinsider said:


> These young ladies should be embarrassed.


and less orange.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

Were those pics randomly googled or taken from SMU? Those fellows look nothing like the properly attired SMU fraternity men with which I am acquainted.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

hockeyinsider said:


> Interesting. Let's not forget that several fraternities at S.M.U. have private chefs in residence...


The Chefs used to be cooks and were called house mothers.


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## jwlester (Oct 20, 2009)

Those pictures had to be taken in New Jersey. My apologize to those forced to live in the worst parts of "Jersey". Unfortunately, its gotten about as bad here.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

mjo_1 said:


> Were those pics randomly googled or taken from SMU? Those fellows look nothing like the properly attired SMU fraternity men with which I am acquainted.


I know the ladies through my ex-girlfriend's sorority. They're not at SMU, but the dress is typical of most collegians these days.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

jwlester said:


> Those pictures had to be taken in New Jersey. My apologize to those forced to live in the worst parts of "Jersey". Unfortunately, its gotten about as bad here.


At U of Delaware we had "Guido nights" where we would all guess which extention of the NJ expressway everyone lived off of. (local humor)

Great times!!


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

That is certainly typical of most college men, but not the frat boys at SMU. They don't call it Southern Moneybags University for nothing. Every school is full of poorly dressed kids, but SMU is much like Ole Miss. They both have a large percentage of traditionally dressed men. Tons of Ralph Lauren, Lacoste, and now Southern Tide.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

Nice to see a school famous for paying college athletes and getting the only death penalty ever from the NCAA getting down to some serious business.

I'm sure everyone here made some questionable fashion calls when they were in their early 20s. Would we have had better lives if skinny gold ties and those shoes called Crayons were banned? First the man comes for your cargos then maybe our OCBDs are next. It's a slippery slope.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Taken Aback said:


> I own a pair or two...


Careful, people have been banned for less. I suggest ten Hail Marys and a ceremonial sacrifice.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

nolan50410 said:


> Tons of Ralph Lauren, Lacoste, and now Southern Tide.


I've never heard of Southern Tide. After a quick search, they appear to be a Vineyard Vines knock-off.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

hockeyinsider said:


> I've never heard of Southern Tide. After a quick search, they appear to be a Vineyard Vines knock-off.


Couldn't be further from VV. The owner is about 26 and takes pride in the stuff his company puts out. Shep and Ian just wanted cash. They have it now, but they no longer have a brand. Southern Tide makes incredible polo shirts. I don't know if anybody comes close to competing. It's all made in China, but it's all very high quality with a lot of attention to fit and detail.

I doubt you will see much of it up north. All of the top stores in the South (Oak Hall in Memphis, Culwell in Dallas, Stockton in Atlanta) have pushed Lacoste to the side and now feature Tide as their main polo shirt line.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

nolan50410 said:


> Couldn't be further from VV. The owner is about 26 and takes pride in the stuff his company puts out. Shep and Ian just wanted cash. They have it now, but they no longer have a brand. Southern Tide makes incredible polo shirts. I don't know if anybody comes close to competing. It's all made in China, but it's all very high quality with a lot of attention to fit and detail.
> 
> I doubt you will see much of it up north. All of the top stores in the South (Oak Hall in Memphis, Culwell in Dallas, Stockton in Atlanta) have pushed Lacoste to the side and now feature Tide as their main polo shirt line.


I wasn't referring to the way one runs a business, but in terms of image. Vineyard Vines and Southern Tide appear to have the same look.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

nolan50410 said:


> I doubt you will see much of it up north. All of the top stores in the South (Oak Hall in Memphis, Culwell in Dallas, Stockton in Atlanta) have pushed Lacoste to the side and now feature Tide as their main polo shirt line.


I'm surprised how quickly Tide took off, and it's the most successful out of the recent southern prep brands post-VV. I talked with the owner when he first started, nice guy.


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

Southern Tide's website seems to be down at the moment. I saw some of the shirts at a store a few weeks back. I suspected it was some sort of Alabama thing ("Tide" being in the title and all). Looks like I will have to take another look.

FWIW, the VV line does not really impress me. Aside from having bright colors, the ties and shirts seemed to be of average consruction.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

I like the fact that their sizing is nearly exact, with shirts offered in even sizes from 38-46. That is extremely unusual for a polo, even Peter Millar doesn't do that.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Charles Saturn said:


> Careful, people have been banned for less. I suggest ten Hail Marys and a ceremonial sacrifice.


May the sartorial gods be appeased.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Cargo shorts, while ridiculous around town, do have their uses. On safari their pockets are a good place to stash your camera, extra ammunition, a ziploc full of biltong, etc. But for urban, daytime wear? Ewwww . . .


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## ostpl (Jan 8, 2010)

"extention of the NJ expressway "??? Not sure what that means? Are you referring to exit of the NJ Turnpike?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

That's it!!

They used to say "I live right off exit 9b" and what have you.


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

nolan50410 said:


> That is certainly typical of most college men, but not the frat boys at SMU. They don't call it Southern Moneybags University for nothing. Every school is full of poorly dressed kids, but SMU is much like Ole Miss. They both have a large percentage of traditionally dressed men. Tons of Ralph Lauren, Lacoste, and now Southern Tide.


The kids at SMU DO dress well.....SMU is known for kids with money, who can't get into Texas, Texas A&M, LSU. OU. OLE Miss etc. Dad has tons and money and the kid shows some "potential," so the school lets them in even though they are have a poor SAT, or HS class rank. So many of the kids go into their dad's businesses when they graduate in 4,5,6 years, and expect to do so, there is not a lot of scholarship by many of these kids. Sure, they get a BBA in general business, but Harvard and Tuck Schools of Business are not beating their doors down to get them to enroll. ( SMU actually has a pretty good MBA School, and it makes you wonder about their undergrad program?)


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

When I was an undergrad Kappa Sigma (I have since had a falling out with a member who occupies quite a high position in the alumni administration of the fraternity, we would see all sorts of stuff.

The official dress code forbade shorts and flipflops.

I instead of concentrating on trivalities put forward a motion that rather than banning specific items, we should "strive to wear appropriate and respectful clothing. When kids were wearing Kappa Sig tees and jeans, what is better than that compared to a pair of pressed bermuda shorts and a seersucker blazer. Yes, I realize we're not in Bermuda.

The vote failed by one. 16-15 against my motion.

Thomas


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

hockeyinsider said:


> Interesting. Let's not forget that several fraternities at S.M.U. have private chefs in residence, according to a Wall street Journal report from last month: https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704409004576145992429174566.html
> 
> Perhaps they'll invest in proper clothes for formals. Sadly, this is commonplace on today's campuses:
> 
> ...


Looks like the usual semi-formal attire of young adults in that area to me. So what if no one there's wearing a floor-length ball gown or a 60-year-old tuxedo from J. Press?


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

^are those boys from SMU? surely they don't all wear black shirts and ugly ties there?


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> ^are those boys from SMU? surely they don't all wear black shirts and ugly ties there?


Doesn't look like SMU.......and the girls are not pretty enough for Dallas.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> That's it!!
> 
> They used to say "I live right off exit 9b" and what have you.


That's a mark of honor and respect. Your exit number dictates whether you are south or north Jersey (and there's a big difference) or possibly central jersey but that's really a myth. The NJ Turnpike or the Garden State Parkway are the only two highways where you can learn a bit about a person by them giving you their number. By the way I'm exit 74 on the GSP :cool2:.

Back to clothes, I can't for the life of me understand the obsession that frat guys have with the black dress shirt. Every frat party or formal I had ever attended almost every guy had a black shirt on.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

govteach51 said:


> The kids at SMU DO dress well.....SMU is known for kids with money, who can't get into Texas, Texas A&M, LSU. OU. OLE Miss etc. Dad has tons and money and the kid shows some "potential," so the school lets them in even though they are have a poor SAT, or HS class rank. So many of the kids go into their dad's businesses when they graduate in 4,5,6 years, and expect to do so, there is not a lot of scholarship by many of these kids. Sure, they get a BBA in general business, but Harvard and Tuck Schools of Business are not beating their doors down to get them to enroll. ( SMU actually has a pretty good MBA School, and it makes you wonder about their undergrad program?)


I very good friend of mine who graduated from the University of Richmond (I'm not sure of what it's like in Texas) explained to me the "Southern frat" look of Sperry Topsiders, madras shorts, needle point belts with whales and etc. on them and either a polo or ocbd. She also told me about the stringent dress codes that Greek organizations and the schools have and told me about the ring ceremony for her graduation which she explained was similar to a coming out ball where the father escorts her in black tie. All this conjured up my imagination of what I thought dances were like on college campuses in the South and I usually pictured this:










Ah, I do love this movie though.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

thefancyman said:


> I very good friend of mine who graduated from the University of Richmond (I'm not sure of what it's like in Texas) explained to me the "Southern frat" look of Sperry Topsiders, madras shorts, needle point belts with whales and etc. on them and either a polo or ocbd.


That's fairly standard around here at OU, especially with the greeks. Even more so further south. I don't get the black shirt thing - pair one with a bright tie and you've nailed the 10th grade dance look from the early 2000s.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

thefancyman said:


> Back to clothes, I can't for the life of me understand the obsession that frat guys have with the black dress shirt. Every frat party or formal I had ever attended almost every guy had a black shirt on.


Rutgers??


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

thefancyman said:


> Back to clothes, I can't for the life of me understand the obsession that frat guys have with the black dress shirt. Every frat party or formal I had ever attended almost every guy had a black shirt on.


Not sure what frat formals you've been going to but I would bet the majority of those guys were also covered in tattoos and had spray tans and blow outs. Jabroni-filled fraternities aren't representative of anything other than fraternities filled with jabronis.


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

govteach51 said:


> The kids at SMU DO dress well.....SMU is known for kids with money, who can't get into Texas, Texas A&M, LSU. OU. OLE Miss etc. Dad has tons and money and the kid shows some "potential," so the school lets them in even though they are have a poor SAT, or HS class rank. So many of the kids go into their dad's businesses when they graduate in 4,5,6 years, and expect to do so, there is not a lot of scholarship by many of these kids. Sure, they get a BBA in general business, but Harvard and Tuck Schools of Business are not beating their doors down to get them to enroll. ( SMU actually has a pretty good MBA School, and it makes you wonder about their undergrad program?)


USNWR ranked SMU 56 out of 262 "national" universities in 2011. I'll believe that some SMU kids might not be able to get into Texas (at 45), but LSU (124) or Ole Miss (143)? USNWR isn't the end-all be-all, and doesn't take into account in-state vs. out-of-state admissions, but these numbers definitely mean something.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

D&S - Thanks for introducing me to the term jabroni. I am adding to my lexicon.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

D&S said:


> USNWR ranked SMU 56 out of 262 "national" universities in 2011. I'll believe that some SMU kids might not be able to get into Texas (at 45), but LSU (124) or Ole Miss (143)? USNWR isn't the end-all be-all, and doesn't take into account in-state vs. out-of-state admissions, but these numbers definitely mean something.


Haha, I was thinking "I've never liked SMU, but that seems particularly harsh."


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

The Rambler said:


> ^are those boys from SMU? surely they don't all wear black shirts and ugly ties there?


No.



govteach51 said:


> Doesn't look like SMU.......and the girls are not pretty enough for Dallas.


Come on, some of the girls are rather cute, others are cute but shouldn't be wearing such a tight-fitting dress.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Rutgers??


Actually yes :icon_smile_big:. I didn't graduate from Rutgers but because it is the largest university in the state every one knows someone who goes there and since my campus was small and there was nothing much to do on the weekends we would often go to Rutgers parties.



D&S said:


> Not sure what frat formals you've been going to but I would bet the majority of those guys were also covered in tattoos and had spray tans and blow outs. Jabroni-filled fraternities aren't representative of anything other than fraternities filled with jabronis.


What does Jabroni mean?


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

govteach51 said:


> Doesn't look like SMU.......and the girls are not pretty enough for Dallas.


Look at the hair and the teeth. It's Dallas, all right.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

bd79cc said:


> Look at the hair and the teeth. It's Dallas, all right.


I buy the picture being SMU. They must have picked one of the, erm,less exclusive sororities for this mixer, though.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

thefancyman said:


> What does Jabroni mean?


Jabroni is obviously an Italian black suit designer.


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

D&S said:


> USNWR ranked SMU 56 out of 262 "national" universities in 2011. I'll believe that some SMU kids might not be able to get into Texas (at 45), but LSU (124) or Ole Miss (143)? USNWR isn't the end-all be-all, and doesn't take into account in-state vs. out-of-state admissions, but these numbers definitely mean something.


The Lyle Engineering School, the Dedman School, are serious colleges at Southern Methodist. Difficult to gain admission. There is a law school and there is Perkins, my college. But there are schools with a wink and a check and you are in like Flynn.
( Perkins is fairly easy to get in.....the hard part is staying in for an 85 hour master's.)


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> I buy the picture being SMU. They must have picked one of the, erm,less exclusive sororities for this mixer, though.


No man, it ain't SMU.....If it is, the wheels have come off the truck. The girls alone almost made me stop studying theology. At the time, chicks didn't dig Perkins students. ( Probably still don't.:frown


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## chilton (Jul 16, 2008)

thefancyman said:


> I very good friend of mine who graduated from the University of Richmond (I'm not sure of what it's like in Texas) explained to me the "Southern frat" look of Sperry Topsiders, madras shorts, needle point belts with whales and etc. on them and either a polo or ocbd. She also told me about the stringent dress codes that Greek organizations and the schools have and told me about the ring ceremony for her graduation which she explained was similar to a coming out ball where the father escorts her in black tie. All this conjured up my imagination of what I thought dances were like on college campuses in the South and I usually pictured this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


By vandalism, I'm sure they mean liquor soaked faux pas.


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

thefancyman said:


> I very good friend of mine who graduated from the University of Richmond (I'm not sure of what it's like in Texas) explained to me the "Southern frat" look of Sperry Topsiders, madras shorts, needle point belts with whales and etc. on them and either a polo or ocbd. She also told me about the stringent dress codes that Greek organizations and the schools have and told me about the ring ceremony for her graduation which she explained was similar to a coming out ball where the father escorts her in black tie. All this conjured up my imagination of what I thought dances were like on college campuses in the South and I usually pictured this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, as a member of Kappa Alpha Order, I can tell you that, for the Old South Ball, there WAS a Civil War motiff. Times being what they are, Old South Week has been replaced by a more PC-friendly party.

The rest of the time it was topsiders/bucks, khaki shorts/pants (pleated), button-downs and blue blazers. Pretty much standard operating procedure for college attire. Well, I thought it was SOP until I saw the picture of the jabronis with black shirts and ties. Please tell me it was a "Godfather" themed party!


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

Trad-ish said:


> Well, as a member of Kappa Alpha Order, I can tell you that, for the Old South Ball, there WAS a Civil War motiff. Times being what they are, Old South Week has been replaced by a more PC-friendly party.


Looking at some of the pictures that Chilton (thanks by the way) posted I saw that Richmond's ring ceremony was held at the Jefferson Hotel in Richmond which is where Margaret Mitchell wrote some of Gone With The Wind. I think some of the Richmond folk are doing something big this year for the 150th anniversary of the outbreak of the war.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

govteach51 said:


> The kids at SMU DO dress well.....SMU is known for kids with money, who can't get into Texas, Texas A&M, LSU. OU. OLE Miss etc.... Sure, they get a BBA in general business, but Harvard and Tuck Schools of Business are not beating their doors down to get them to enroll.


Okay, maybe you're right about Texas and Texas A&M being harder to get into, but LSU/OU/Ole Miss - I could have wiped my application with my ass and still have gotten into those schools. Also the culture between Texas A&M and SMU are quite different. Even though A&M may be more selective, I would choose SMU over A&M anyday. The connections you make if you want to be in finance/business, especially in Texas, are better from SMU than A&M. Oil/engineering OTOH, go to A&M.

Also, I know several of my older brother's friends that went to SMU undergrad along with friends friends from SMU undergrad that are currently in or have gone to Kellogg, Wharton, McCombs, Harvard, and Booth.

Disclosure: I did not go to SMU or any of the schools mentioned but I am from the DFW area so I am familiar with all these schools.


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## jwlester (Oct 20, 2009)

Some of those Richmond folk look horrendous....even early in the evening. Not what I expected.

On a side note, thank God for being born Southern.

Cheers, Josh


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

Best quote from the article:



> "Not all cargo pants are lame," White said. "You just have to know how to dress to make them look good."
> White, who is not affiliated with Sigma Chi, has a handful of tips for making cargos cool ... "The bottom of the shorts should end below the knee cap."


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

tdecast said:


> Okay, maybe you're right about Texas and Texas A&M being harder to get into, but LSU/OU/Ole Miss - I could have wiped my application with my ass and still have gotten into those schools. Also the culture between Texas A&M and SMU are quite different. Even though A&M may be more selective, I would choose SMU over A&M anyday. The connections you make if you want to be in finance/business, especially in Texas, are better from SMU than A&M. Oil/engineering OTOH, go to A&M.
> 
> Also, I know several of my older brother's friends that went to SMU undergrad along with friends friends from SMU undergrad that are currently in or have gone to Kellogg, Wharton, McCombs, Harvard, and Booth.
> 
> Disclosure: I did not go to SMU or any of the schools mentioned but I am from the DFW area so I am familiar with all these schools.


Things must have changed dramatically, I got into A&M, UT but was rejected by LSU......but that was 1975...:tongue2:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Best quote from the article:

"Not all cargo pants are lame," White said. "You just have to know how to dress to make them look good."
White, who is not affiliated with Sigma Chi, has a handful of tips for making cargos cool ... "The bottom of the shorts should end below the knee cap."

So the idea is to look like Captain Spaulding, the African Explorer? Groucho must be howling with celestial laughter. How about a shoe dye mustache while they're at it?


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## Henry346 (Oct 31, 2009)

Just finished pledgeship at Washington and Lee University. The fraternity men here are damn sharply dressed and the women wear beautiful gowns. God bless God's country.


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## BorderBandit (Apr 16, 2011)

tdecast said:


> Okay, maybe you're right about Texas and Texas A&M being harder to get into, but LSU/OU/Ole Miss - I could have wiped my application with my ass and still have gotten into those schools. Also the culture between Texas A&M and SMU are quite different. Even though A&M may be more selective, I would choose SMU over A&M anyday. The connections you make if you want to be in finance/business, especially in Texas, are better from SMU than A&M. Oil/engineering OTOH, go to A&M.
> 
> Also, I know several of my older brother's friends that went to SMU undergrad along with friends friends from SMU undergrad that are currently in or have gone to Kellogg, Wharton, McCombs, Harvard, and Booth.
> 
> Disclosure: I did not go to SMU or any of the schools mentioned but I am from the DFW area so I am familiar with all these schools.


I DID go to SMU before transferring to A&M and thank the Good Lord Almighty that I got out of there as fast as possible. The saying that money can't buy you class is epitomized at SMU. The only thing I learned from the individuals that go there is that they have too much money to blow on booze, cheap clothes, and, well, blow. The business school does have a tight knit network that will help you out tremendously, but when it comes to the sheer size and availability of opportunities that A&M's worldwide network gives you, SMU pales in comparison. I loved the friends I made at SMU, but couldn't stand most of the other students there.
The main difference with SMU vs. A&M in business is that A&M is much more undergrad focused while SMU is trying to cultivate that "Harvard of the South" business with their high rankings. Seriously, go to the school. Their colours are chosen from Harvard and Yale and they choose their architecture to reflect their supposed status. I realized quickly that my tuition dollars were being spent on the ridiculous upkeep and not on making my education better. You can argue merits and opportunity all day long, but when you can get a better or comparable education for one-fifth of the price, I'm choosing A&M any day.
The "gentleman" at SMU are nothing but your typical frat-boys with the northface/cargo shorts/polo/whatever and deserve a lot of the scorn that's heaped upon their stereotypes. What people don't remember about Greek life at SMU is scary. The book "Pledged" about sorority recruitment was based there (eye opening and disturbing read) and that is the recent stuff. Back in the 80's an unnamed frat was kicked off campus and all its members arrested for running a drug and prostitution ring out of their chapter house, which was taken by the university and now turned into the service fraternity on campus. If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'. So then, anecdotally, I rank SMU very very low when it comes to anything quality.


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## Henry346 (Oct 31, 2009)

BorderBandit said:


> I DID go to SMU before transferring to A&M and thank the Good Lord Almighty that I got out of there as fast as possible. The saying that money can't buy you class is epitomized at SMU. The only thing I learned from the individuals that go there is that they have too much money to blow on booze, cheap clothes, and, well, blow. The business school does have a tight knit network that will help you out tremendously, but when it comes to the sheer size and availability of opportunities that A&M's worldwide network gives you, SMU pales in comparison. I loved the friends I made at SMU, but couldn't stand most of the other students there.
> The main difference with SMU vs. A&M in business is that A&M is much more undergrad focused while SMU is trying to cultivate that "Harvard of the South" business with their high rankings. Seriously, go to the school. Their colours are chosen from Harvard and Yale and they choose their architecture to reflect their supposed status. I realized quickly that my tuition dollars were being spent on the ridiculous upkeep and not on making my education better. You can argue merits and opportunity all day long, but when you can get a better or comparable education for one-fifth of the price, I'm choosing A&M any day.
> The "gentleman" at SMU are nothing but your typical frat-boys with the northface/cargo shorts/polo/whatever and deserve a lot of the scorn that's heaped upon their stereotypes. What people don't remember about Greek life at SMU is scary. The book "Pledged" about sorority recruitment was based there (eye opening and disturbing read) and that is the recent stuff. Back in the 80's an unnamed frat was kicked off campus and all its members arrested for running a drug and prostitution ring out of their chapter house, which was taken by the university and now turned into the service fraternity on campus. If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'. So then, anecdotally, I rank SMU very very low when it comes to anything quality.


Before talking down to "frats" you may well recall that Greek men defined American tradwear for a century, and fraternity men are still one of the biggest bastions of modern day trad clothing. And no top tier fraternity would ever allow cargo shorts.

AEKDB
Henry


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

BorderBandit said:


> I DID go to SMU before transferring to A&M and thank the Good Lord Almighty that I got out of there as fast as possible. The saying that money can't buy you class is epitomized at SMU. The only thing I learned from the individuals that go there is that they have too much money to blow on booze, cheap clothes, and, well, blow. The business school does have a tight knit network that will help you out tremendously, but when it comes to the sheer size and availability of opportunities that A&M's worldwide network gives you, SMU pales in comparison. I loved the friends I made at SMU, but couldn't stand most of the other students there.
> The main difference with SMU vs. A&M in business is that A&M is much more undergrad focused while SMU is trying to cultivate that "Harvard of the South" business with their high rankings. Seriously, go to the school. Their colours are chosen from Harvard and Yale and they choose their architecture to reflect their supposed status. I realized quickly that my tuition dollars were being spent on the ridiculous upkeep and not on making my education better. You can argue merits and opportunity all day long, but when you can get a better or comparable education for one-fifth of the price, I'm choosing A&M any day.
> The "gentleman" at SMU are nothing but your typical frat-boys with the northface/cargo shorts/polo/whatever and deserve a lot of the scorn that's heaped upon their stereotypes. What people don't remember about Greek life at SMU is scary. The book "Pledged" about sorority recruitment was based there (eye opening and disturbing read) and that is the recent stuff. Back in the 80's an unnamed frat was kicked off campus and all its members arrested for running a drug and prostitution ring out of their chapter house, which was taken by the university and now turned into the service fraternity on campus. If I'm lyin' I'm dyin'. So then, anecdotally, I rank SMU very very low when it comes to anything quality.


Here are the differences in A&M and SMU.
SMU has a law school, A&M doesn't.
SMU has a seminary, A&M doesn't.....and never will....Trust me, both of these schools are worlds apart from the undergrad schools at Southern Methodist.


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## BorderBandit (Apr 16, 2011)

> Before talking down to "frats" you may well recall that Greek men defined American tradwear for a century, and fraternity men are still one of the biggest bastions of modern day trad clothing. And no top tier fraternity would ever allow cargo shorts.


Yeah considering I was in one I did go off on them more than I intended, I see that re-reading my post. The main gist of that was supposed to be how insane and detached from the real world SMU is, but that ended when I transferred and started over with a new group of men. It's one of those things where you hear the stories and suppose their just exaggerations, but when you spend night after night watching people throw their lives away it tends to poison the whole system in your mind.



govteach51 said:


> Here are the differences in A&M and SMU.
> SMU has a law school, A&M doesn't.
> SMU has a seminary, A&M doesn't.....and never will....Trust me, both of these schools are worlds apart from the undergrad schools at Southern Methodist.


Agreed! That's where my friends mainly came from. Considering SMU's seminary program it was fun to watch my best friend (A&M undergrad, commissioned army cpt.) try to navigate that morass of backgrounds he had while in seminary there. That's how we became good friends is being slightly outside the undergrad life. I can't even imagine A&M with a seminary, law school maybe (don't they do some JAG training via the Corps of Cadets and it's Navy contract holders?)


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

I am thinking the Navy did/does train a large number of their lawyers at SMU.....and they heavily recruited seminarians for the chaplain corps while I was at Perkins. It is strange, I have a friend who went to the Southwestern Baptist Seminary over in Ft Worth and the Army heavily recruited there. I can't remember an Army recruiter at Perkins in the 1980s. I do remember the Navy chaplain recruiter telling us we could be assigned to the Coast Guard.

Didn't A&M try to bring South Texas Law School in Houston under their umbrella at one time?


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## BorderBandit (Apr 16, 2011)

govteach51 said:


> I am thinking the Navy did/does train a large number of their lawyers at SMU.....and they heavily recruited seminarians for the chaplain corps while I was at Perkins. It is strange, I have a friend who went to the Southwestern Baptist Seminary over in Ft Worth and the Army heavily recruited there. I can't remember an Army recruiter at Perkins in the 1980s. I do remember the Navy chaplain recruiter telling us we could be assigned to the Coast Guard.
> 
> Didn't A&M try to bring South Texas Law School in Houston under their umbrella at one time?


They did! I think they abandoned the idea with all the schools in Houston and Austin so close. It seems they're pouring all their money into getting their med school going. I bet they try for a Law School again, they cut out the non cash-cow programs (journalism) and go where the money is.


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

Henry, congratulations on initiating, brother. AEKDB. Back to the clothing.. Cargo shorts look like they are made for children, and fraternity (not "frat") men want nothing to do with looking like an unkept child. While not all fraternities will technically ban cargos, most will poke fun at the members who do wear them.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

regarding A&M fashion:
I'd just like to point out one time I went to an A&M wedding. The bride was from Fort Worth and the groom was from BFE, Texas. The reception was at a very nice (read: exclusive) club in downtown Fort Worth. I distinctly remember being in my suit and seeing all these A&M people wearing jeans with a dip ring in the pocket, boots, large buckles, pocket knives (who brings a knife to a wedding??), torn up baseball caps (kept on even indoors), short sleeve button down shirts. 

Growing up in Texas, I understand how people dress here and I can respect that - and I do wear jeans and cowboy boots often, but I was embarrassed for the bride seeing all these tastelessly dressed people at one of the most important days of her life.

My main point was that the culture between SMU and A&M is vastly different. The former is in a large city with big business and the latter is in a small college town in rural Texas. You, BorderBandit, are from small town Texas, and I am from a relatively large city in Texas (though FW is not as metropolitan as you would expect given that we have 700k+ people). I would expect that we have different preferences in schools. While both appear to be similar in selectivety, they are starkly different in culture. 

I'm in no way discrediting the quality of the education at A&M and I know plenty of successful Ags. I just could never deal with all the "********" (c'mon you guys have alot), and the annoying amount of pride and tradition that Aggies have. (I almost hate college football season just because of how annoying you guys get)

I'm not saying everyone at A&M is like that, in fact the majority of the people I hang out with in Fort Worth are classy Aggies, so I think I understand the culture there pretty well. Even they will admit they are in the minority and there is enough of a "*******" culture at A&M that kept me from ever thinking about going there.

I'll end with another somewhat fashion related A&M moment:
I met this girl at work when I first started that just graduated from A&M and moved to FW who I thought was somewhat cute in the small town, naive girl type with a heavy country accent... I remember questioning (to myself) her choice of shoes (looked like Doc Martens if I recall) and questioning the bars she would frequent ...but then she bent over and exposed her lower back tattoo that was the size of a saucer plate and that told me all I needed to know.

Thanks and Gig 'Em.


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## BorderBandit (Apr 16, 2011)

tdecast said:


> regarding A&M fashion:
> You, BorderBandit, are from small town Texas, and I am from a relatively large city in Texas (though FW is not as metropolitan as you would expect given that we have 700k+ people). I would expect that we have different preferences in schools. While both appear to be similar in selectivety, they are starkly different in culture.


I, sir, am someone you know nothing about. Neither am I from a small town, nor is A&M itself a small town. My current location simply reflects my job, which if you'd like to call international supply chain and logistics support the result of a ******* education, go ahead. In point of fact, SMU and A&M are not towns, but universities. If you mean Dallas and College Station respectively you may possibly have a point about sheer size. However in your entire post the point is what was lacking.

Given, we can argue the merits of schools and programs, and how more A&M graduates go on to work for Fortune 500 companies, represent most heavily at the CIA and other agencies, or how more officers serving in our armed forces are from A&M than other such storied schools as West Point or VMI. We can also argue facilities such as A&M's world class engineering programs (including a functioning nuclear reactor), our fleet (yes fleet, plural) of ships that conduct research around the world. Maybe then we could proceed to our satellite campus in Qatar or the litany of Congressman and even foreign presidents we have counted among our alumni. However, as I have previously stated I have attended both universities and speak from direct experience and you speak from it seems anecdotal knowledge. By your standards I would conclude that people from Forth Worth engage in backhanded compliments (yes, your qualifiers non-withstanding those compliments are as such), ad hominem attacks, and judgements based on sheer ignorance.

Yet the fact that strikes me the most is that you want to argue...on the internet. I, sir, am done with this thread so vent your petty little fury if you want, since I for one won't be around to read it.


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

BorderBandit said:


> I, sir, am someone you know nothing about. Neither am I from a small town, nor is A&M itself a small town. My current location simply reflects my job, which if you'd like to call international supply chain and logistics support the result of a ******* education, go ahead. In point of fact, SMU and A&M are not towns, but universities. If you mean Dallas and College Station respectively you may possibly have a point about sheer size. However in your entire post the point is what was lacking.
> 
> Given, we can argue the merits of schools and programs, and how more A&M graduates go on to work for Fortune 500 companies, represent most heavily at the CIA and other agencies, or how more officers serving in our armed forces are from A&M than other such storied schools as West Point or VMI. We can also argue facilities such as A&M's world class engineering programs (including a functioning nuclear reactor), our fleet (yes fleet, plural) of ships that conduct research around the world. Maybe then we could proceed to our satellite campus in Qatar or the litany of Congressman and even foreign presidents we have counted among our alumni. However, as I have previously stated I have attended both universities and speak from direct experience and you speak from it seems anecdotal knowledge. By your standards I would conclude that people from Forth Worth engage in backhanded compliments (yes, your qualifiers non-withstanding those compliments are as such), ad hominem attacks, and judgements based on sheer ignorance.
> 
> Yet the fact that strikes me the most is that you want to argue...on the internet. I, sir, am done with this thread so vent your petty little fury if you want, since I for one won't be around to read it.


I hate tdecast for you to know where I went to undergrad school, and how you would think about how my fellow alumni dress also. Nor how you feel about the community in which I live and the even smaller community in which I work. 
As you may know, I am a teacher, and we are extremely proud that our Val and Sal both will attend A&M in the Fall. No. 3 in the class my alma mater in Alpine, TX.:icon_smile:


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

First off, this thread/website is dedicated to how people dress so the fact that I am bringing that up is perfectly relevant to this website. Again, I have nothing against an A&M education, I just dislike the culture. I've recognized that it is a good school and I personally know many alumni (some who I call friends) who have gone on to lead successful careers. I was simply pointing out the fact that the two schools are vastly different in terms of culture which can partially be observed in the way they dress which I pointed out in two anecdotes.

I was wrong for assuming you were from a small town and for that I apologize. What I was trying to say was that a stereotypical person from a small town may find it harder to fit in at a small private school in a large metropolitan city with kids mostly coming from other large cities than a large public school in a college town (aptly named "College Station) with kids from all backgrounds.

The only point I was ever trying to make was that I don't like the culture at A&M and would probably fit in better at SMU. That is a personal preference, not saying that SMU is better than A&M for everyone, but for me. I agree with your move to A&M, I've always said that the culture of a school is just as important as its academic quality. If you don't like the kids you're surrounded by, it's difficult to do well.

By the way, your rant about the places of employment of your alumni (which has nothing to do about clothes) just proves my point about how annoying you guys are about school pride.


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## rupertoooo (May 6, 2011)

They have a nerve to ban cargo shorts with the way they are dressing in that photo. I bet they are on there way to the local Guido Club to do some fist pumping.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

Summary so far: 

We can all agree that cargo shorts are bad. No, the guys in the pics aren't from SMU (unless it was a Jersey Shore themed date party) and the pics were likely googled and posted as a (very bad/inaccurate) example of fraternity attire. People are sensitive about their hometowns and universities.

Carry on.


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