# Bourbon. good for sipping, or only for mixing?



## MichaelS (Nov 14, 2005)

The thread about Bible thumping apparently drove many of us to drink considering what was written towards the end so I thought we might start a thread about bourbon.

Some people seem to think it is only good for mixing where others think there are some good enough to just sip straight. I am one of the group that thinks there are some really good bourbons that are excellent sipped straight. I like both Woodford Reserve and Buffalo Trace. There are a number of other good ones too. Also, don't discount some of the new Rye whiskeys coming out from craft distillers. These are interesting too.

For those of you who refer to the Glenlivet as a really good whisky, its not bad, but there is a whole world of very distinctive and excellent Scotch out there, some very strong, and some very mellow. Keep trying (my wife and I have over 50 bottles of various Scotch's at this point. We keep trying new ones before we finish the old ones).


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## Pulledpork (Jun 3, 2008)

I have been known to both mix and sip straight Woodford and Maker's. I am also fond of a lot of single malts, and I can really appreciate the differences between the heat of a malt and the smoothness of a bourbon (esp the wheaters).

If I may draw an analogy, a good bourbon goes with a bespoke seersucker suit with a few subtly eccentric details like peak lapels or a fishtail back on the trousers. A good malt on the other hand is for a four piece heavy tweed suit (with matching spats, for beagling).


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Let me preface this by saying that I generally don't care for any drink that has been "mixed". My choice of Bourbon is Knob Creek and I prefer it with just the tiniest splash of water or perhaps a single ice cube if I don't use the splash of water. After all it is 100 proof and is best, in my opinion, when cut ever so slightly.

Having said that my regular drink is Jack Daniels neat. Of course Jack Daniels is not Bourbon even though many call it Bourbon.

Cruiser


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## Where Eagles Dare (Feb 14, 2006)

Some of my favorites:

Old Heaven Hill (Bottled in Bond)
Old Forester 100
Van Winkle 12 year, Lot B
Four Roses Single Barrel
Bulleit
Eagle Rare
Wild Turkey 101

Always neat or with a drop or two of water. Never mixed. Never on the rocks.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

I usually drink my bourbon neat, but hot summer days in Atlanta sometimes calls for ice. There are many many excellent bourbons that are worthy of drinking neat. I have about 15-20 different brands represented in my bar, and enjoy them all too much to claim a favorite. But Bookers and A. H. Hirsch are two I turn to a lot, and more recently Bulleit.
I might mention that good ole Jim Beam, while certainly not in the class of most of the brands mentioned on this thread, is often under-appreciated. It is slightly less sweet and more smokey than most bourbons -- almost like a Tennessee whiskey in a way. Another good value is Old Forrester. While most people would not drink those last two mid-market brands neat, I would, but then again I really like bourbon more than any other whiskey -- though I do also enjoy scotch (single malt and blended), Irish, and Canadian.


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## Apthorpe (Apr 8, 2008)

Neat usually. Sometimes with ice. The only thing bourbon (or any whiskey, or gin for that matter) should be mixed with is vermouth. Although a mint julep may be acceptable in limited circumstances. :icon_smile:

+1 on Irish whiskey.


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## Flashy (Mar 15, 2006)

If you want something to sip neat or over a couple ice cubes, try Basil Hayden. 
Absolutely the smoothest bourbon I've tried, and I'd rate it along side a 12 year old Highland Park or a 10 year old Balvenie any day. I certainly wouldn't mix this one.

My go-to bourbons are Makers and Knob Creeks, both of which I are at the sweet spot for quality to price value, and can be taken neat (Knob might be a bit "hot" for some) or mixed with ginger ale, or as an Old Fashioned or a Manhattan. 

Cheers
Flashy


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I sip or do shots of the good bourbons. Woodford Reserve is extremely smooth. I did two shots at the turn today because it was raining and we had a short delay. Evan Williams Single Barrel is a good sip. Regular EW or Jim Beam I mix with coke.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Costs*

Gentlemen

What do these run. I know the Bulleit is around 25-30. Son drinks thi one. What do the others?

Also, is not the 4 roses a rye?
Just curious.

When first in the military( a little history). I was stationed at Ft Bragg. The bourbon then, and still is Jack Black. Tehn the green label was no where but down south!
A big ticket up here. My brothers in law love this bourbon. Can still get.
It is a little smooth.
The bulleit is very nice. Have tried this.
I personally love the malt. Glenlivet is my usual six shooter. But, I enjoy the 18 Glenmorangie and Glenlivet. These are expensive.

OK Nice day my friends


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

DukeGrad said:


> The bourbon then, and still is Jack Black.


Although many folks commonly refer to Jack Daniels as bourbon, it isn't. JD is Tennessee Whiskey, a name that has nothing to do with where it is made but rather by the legally mandated way in which it is made. If you read the label of Jack Daniels you will not find the word bourbon as it would be illegal to market it as such, just as it would be illegal to market a bourbon as Tennessee Whiskey even if it was made in Tennessee.

Currently there are only two Tennessee Whiskeys on the market which probably accounts for the reason they are placed with the bourbons in the liquor stores. Hardly worth setting aside an entire section for only two brands plus the similarity to bourbon is quite obvious.

Cruiser


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## Apthorpe (Apr 8, 2008)

DukeGrad said:


> Gentlemen
> 
> What do these run. I know the Bulleit is around 25-30. Son drinks thi one. What do the others?


I'm not great with prices and purposely misremember them so I can honestly be confused, disoriented and unhelpful when the wife asks about prices.

But Buffalo Trace, I believe, is typically in about that same range as Bulleit. Knob Creek (which I think to be a bit over priced) a couple dollars more. Woodroof and 1792 are a few dollars over that. Basil Hayden is usually higher still. And Booker's, I don't know if anyone has mentioned them, is higher yet (I think you might pay $45-50 for 750 ml, which strikes me as pretty high for bourbon, if a bourbon costs more than black label I will be inclined to go to that old standby instead, and if it costs as much as the Macallan I will be very hard pressed to give it a try). Usually I buy what ever is on sale under $30 that I haven't tried or haven't tried in a while and most of the aforementioned can be obtained for that.


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## Apthorpe (Apr 8, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> Although many folks commonly refer to Jack Daniels as bourbon, it isn't. JD is Tennessee Whiskey.


Isn't the only difference the "charcoal filtering"? I guess I figure if it's made mostly from corn, and touches scorched oak (preferably for an extended period of time), then it's bourbon. But I can understand how the good folks from Tennessee feel the need to one up their neighbors.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Apthorpe said:


> Isn't the only difference the "charcoal filtering"? I guess I figure if it's made mostly from corn, and touches scorched oak (preferably for an extended period of time), then it's bourbon. But I can understand how the good folks from Tennessee feel the need to one up their neighbors.


Technically, Tennessee whiskeys sold today all satisfy the US government definition of "bourbon," but there are many aficionados who would not consider some US regulatory agency as dispositive. The question is whether the Lincoln County process (i.e., charcoal filitering) somehow alters the product in such a way that calling it bourbon would be deceptive or unfair. As one commenter noted:

"Until it is dripped through the maple charcoal that makes Tennessee whiskey distinct, it IS bourbon. In fact, some argue that since the charcoal filtration subtracts flavor elements (congeners, fusel oils and esters) from the whiskey instead of adding anything, it still can be called bourbon after undergoing the so-called Lincoln County Process. But since neither Jack Daniel's nor the Kentucky bourbon folks desires that anyway, the current separation between bourbon and JD/George Dickel is fine all around."

This seems about right. It seems to me if the producers of both Tennessee whiskeys and bourbons (which are not all made in Kentucky by the way) can unanimously agree that the definition of bourbon does not include Tennessee whiskeys, we consumers should respect that. Moreover, it is a useful distinction insomuch as the filtering/leaching process does alter the drinking characteristics considerably, with Tennessee whiskeys being noticably more smokey and less sweet.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Keep in mind that many bourbons are also charcoal filtered but unlike Tennessee whiskey, bourbons are not filtered until AFTER the aging process whereas Tennessee whiskey is charcoal filtered BEFORE the aging process.

Cruiser


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Not quite on topic, but I had Jim Beam Rye whiskey at a friend's house last week - amazingly good sipping whiskey for it's price ($15/bottle)


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## radix023 (May 3, 2007)

I'm actually okay either way...

Maker's my normal bourbon, Woodford if I'm feeling special.

over the rocks with a splash

I discovered a huge patch of mint after I bought my house, the fresh julep is a masterpiece


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## chainsaw4130 (Apr 30, 2008)

Gentlemen Jack. Whether you classify it as Tennessee Whiskey or Bourbon does not really matter to me.


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## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

Maker's Mark or Woodford are good mixed. For straight there's Pappy Van Winkle (about any of the expressions), William Larue Weller (my favorite) or George T Stagg. For these last couple I have paid anywhere from $65 to $95 the bottle, but it's marvelous stuff. Blanton's is also a good bottle of bourbon for more nearly $50.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

I sip it - woodford reserve and makers mark. I like evan williams, too, even though it isn't a real bourbon.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

globetrotter said:


> I sip it - woodford reserve and makers mark. I like evan williams, too, even though it isn't a real bourbon.


Why do you think Evan Williams is not a real bourbon? Are you perhaps confusing its black label with the black label of either George Dickel or Jack Daniels, both of which are Tennessee whiskeys rather than bourbons?


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

globetrotter said:


> I like evan williams, too, even though it isn't a real bourbon.





Evan Williams, the second largest selling brand of Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey in the U.S., is named for Kentucky's first distiller of 1783.
Today, Heaven Hill's Master Distillers, *Parker &* *Craig Beam*, oversee the production of Evan Williams using the same process and traditional recipe made popular by the brand's namesake.
Evan Williams continues to be a category leader with its hallmark embodied in the "Extra Aged" tagline.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

ksinc said:


> Evan Williams, the second largest selling brand of Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey in the U.S., is named for Kentucky's first distiller of 1783.
> Today, Heaven Hill's Master Distillers, *Parker &* *Craig Beam*, oversee the production of Evan Williams using the same process and traditional recipe made popular by the brand's namesake.
> Evan Williams continues to be a category leader with its hallmark embodied in the "Extra Aged" tagline.


Yes, EW is plainly a bourbon. My hunch is that globetrotter just made an honest mistake. Evan Williams' brand is embodied in a person's name and displayed on a black label, just like Charles Dickel and Jack Daniels. Just understandable confusion.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

I prefer Scotch, but when I do drink Bourbon, it's almost always mixed with ginger ale. A variation, called a Swizzle by a local watering hole, is Bourbon, Cointreau (Gran Mariner or triple sec will work too) and ginger ale.

Since I don't drink Bourbon on a regular basis, I am not picky about the brand. Besides, I've always felt using truly premium liquor in a mixed drink is a total waste of money.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> ... I've always felt using truly premium liquor in a mixed drink is a total waste of money.


I agree with that.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Mike Petrik said:


> Yes, EW is plainly a bourbon. My hunch is that globetrotter just made an honest mistake.


Yes, clearly.

Jim Beam has a black label now too (although the basic is still white).


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## Where Eagles Dare (Feb 14, 2006)

ksinc said:


> I agree with that.


++++1


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