# Proper way to respond to anti-smokers...? (advice needed)



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

I find smoking cigars is generally a pleasant, calming activity, allowing me to reflect on the day's events or meditate on some problem. However, it is a habit that increasingly attracts anti-smoking bigots, most of whom seem to be large, middle-aged women. They are as a rule alarmingly aggressive. 

Yesterday was a case in point. While my girlfriend shopped in Neiman Marcus, I sat outside in the afternoon sunshine and smoked. Just as I exhaled and the smoke from my Davidoff Gran Cru No. 3 drifted across the plaza, a woman waddled by, scowled at me, and said quite loudly in my direction: "That's rude!" 

True to form she was a rather overweight woman and I immediately noted her enormous derriere and thighs encased in denim, like grotesque sausages, which elicited my response: "What's rude is your fat *ss!" This was apparently insulting enough to provoke an angry response from the man at her side and an unpleasant confrontation ensued.

In order to prevent a recurrence, and to prevent my becoming a victim of assault and battery from members of the public, I would be interested to hear from other AAAC cigar aficianados as to possible alternative responses to anti-smoking individuals. What works for you...?


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Just ignore them if they are being rude. Anytime you escalate the situation by responding in kind, God only knows what you'll get back.

You should have been able to see this one coming. She was wrong, but you did not help the situation.


----------



## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

In the situation you descibe, it appears that the woman was rude, no doubt. There's nothing you can do, short of ceasing to smoke in public areas, to stop such remarks.

How you respond is within your control. Responding to rudeness with equal rudeness certainly greatly increases the chance of being involved in an assault.

A simple, "I'm sorry if you are offended." would have been a better response, in my opinion. The hopefully, she would have continued to waddle along on her way and your blood pressure might not have been raised quite as much.

Is this "apology" on your part necessary? Of course not, but in the end you would have been less agitated and rid of her and her companion all the sooner.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

If it is a smoking area, the simple reply would be that you are following the law so she should take it up with her legislators. If it is in a non-smoking area, you are in the wrong regardless of how annoying the non-smoker might be. If you are in a public area that is without signage, I usually follow the principle that my rights end when they impact others, i.e. my right to swing my fist freely ends right about a millimeter before someone's nose begins. If she was just passing through, tell her that her reaction far outweighs (no pun intended) the momentary discomfort of her passing by and that if she would like to sit next to you, you would put out the offending stogie.


----------



## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

Old Brompton said:


> I find smoking cigars is generally a pleasant, calming activity, allowing me to reflect on the day's events or meditate on some problem. However, it is a habit that increasingly attracts anti-smoking bigots, most of whom seem to be large, middle-aged women. They are as a rule alarmingly aggressive.
> 
> Yesterday was a case in point. While my girlfriend shopped in Neiman Marcus, I sat outside in the afternoon sunshine and smoked. Just as I exhaled and the smoke from my Davidoff Gran Cru No. 3 drifted across the plaza, a woman waddled by, scowled at me, and said quite loudly in my direction: "That's rude!"
> 
> ...


She was indeed rude and aggressive ... but your ad hominem response was completely inappropriate and equally aggressive.

I don't understand the desire to respond with insult. But if you really must ... why not respond with something intelligent that can be interpreted in more than one way ... it will leave the person wondering whether or not she (or he as the case may be) has been insulted.

EDIT (after posts below): The suggestion of the "knowing smile" -- as you continue to smoke -- is indeed good.

Just curious ... what is the point of mentioning her physical traits ... even if she is as described?


----------



## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

I'm an ex-smoker, but trust me when I say you will _never_ hear a word from me - I know how you feel - completely.

In the past I felt many times like saying what you did. I did learn not to upset myself but to simply look at the rude person with a "knowing smile" and nod of the head as I took another drag from my cigarette. I think the 'knowing' smile" said much more than I ever could and left to the rude person's imagination to consider the many, many possibilities of what I _could_ have said.

Somehow I never tired of this smug attitude - but then I admit this is a fault of mine.


----------



## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

sorry, that was not gentlemanly. 

a gentleman would never respond with that kind of rudeness, no matter how rude you were being addressed. 

I smoke cigars, I do not smoke cigarettes. I realy and truly hate cigarette smoke, and I try very hard to keep my cigar smoke away from others. I think that you did your part by staying outdoors, and I know how hard it is to find a place to smoke a cigar indoors today. 

but I would have just smiled at the woman, and puffed away.


----------



## Armchair (Nov 12, 2006)

I would have replied along the lines of 'I'm terribly sorry to have offended you but I do rather enjoy my cigars' in a very overly-polite tone. 

You could even put on an English accent for extra effect.


----------



## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

Well, hindsight is 20-20, but if the events played out as you described you need have done no more than to tell this woman what you told us: "No, madam, this is not rude. This is *a pleasant, calming activity, [which] allow me to reflect on the day's events or meditate on some problem*" or similar words to that effect. And had you an extra stick you might have offered it to her or her companion with a cheerful "care to join me?" As it was, you came off far the worse in the exchange, as you directed a insult to her person while she merely criticized your conduct. She might have been a self-righteous boor, but you're lucky you didn't get your stogie stuffed in your mug.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

After reading some of the replies, maybe a more intellectual approach on the insult? Something such as, "My dear, you appear to have exceeded the weight limit of those jeans 100 lbs ago"


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Old Brompton said:


> I find smoking cigars is generally a pleasant, calming activity, allowing me to reflect on the day's events or meditate on some problem. However, it is a habit that increasingly attracts anti-smoking bigots, most of whom seem to be large, middle-aged women. They are as a rule alarmingly aggressive.
> 
> Yesterday was a case in point. While my girlfriend shopped in Neiman Marcus, I sat outside in the afternoon sunshine and smoked. Just as I exhaled and the smoke from my Davidoff Gran Cru No. 3 drifted across the plaza, a woman waddled by, scowled at me, and said quite loudly in my direction: "That's rude!"
> 
> ...


Old Brompton,

Unfortunately, I love it! LOL

I dislike rudeness, but I absolutely hate entitlement.

What do you think gives you the right to respond in any way with immunity?

Learn to keep your mouth shut or be prepared to fight!

In my experience, people who get their butts kicked usually deserve it. Whether you got yours or not, you surely did ask for it.

And; I'm a cigar smoker, but I have no sympathy for you in this instance.

If you don't want to fight, then de-escalate the situation by being polite.

Cheers!


----------



## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

A personal attack only fans the flames ... on the other hand, a more civil response (per that of Lushington) has the potential of both disarming the situation at hand ... and also of diminishing the likelihood that the offender will make the same mistake again.

So ... is the personal attack _ever_ the correct response? *NO.* Frankly, when one attacks the person rather than the issue, one is left to assume that the attacker hasn't the ability to respond intelligently.


----------



## johnjack11 (Oct 13, 2006)

I love my cigars, but I go out of my way to make sure I can smoke them in peace. I try to avoid the confrontation you described as it lessens my experience. I also like to have a nice scotch with mine, so I am not likely to smoke them outside a mall.

I am guessing you were not supposed to be smoking there either. The reply you gave was rude, and could have resulted in injury!

I do applaud your choice of cigar though, Davidoff's are always smooth...



Old Brompton said:


> I find smoking cigars is generally a pleasant, calming activity, allowing me to reflect on the day's events or meditate on some problem. However, it is a habit that increasingly attracts anti-smoking bigots, most of whom seem to be large, middle-aged women. They are as a rule alarmingly aggressive.
> 
> Yesterday was a case in point. While my girlfriend shopped in Neiman Marcus, I sat outside in the afternoon sunshine and smoked. Just as I exhaled and the smoke from my Davidoff Gran Cru No. 3 drifted across the plaza, a woman waddled by, scowled at me, and said quite loudly in my direction: "That's rude!"
> 
> ...


----------



## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Old lady*

Gentlemen,

Old Brompton I would not let it go further than today. It is not worth your heartache, and worry that you show. Or that you are pissed off at her. I have found a lot of situations such as this, since I retired from the service.
My way of handling, is very wrong. I would have used some military english, and swear up and down quite a bit.
Then I would have shot her, and her husband.
I am in agreement with you. Not worth the aggrevation yopu are going through.
One day, she will be put out to pasture, and someone will put her out of her misery.
Dont worry about this. Believe it or not, it happens a lot to people.
Have a nice day my friend


----------



## mclean5 (May 16, 2006)

Unfortunately, the aged children who increasingly populate our society have been taught that normal rules of civil behavior among equals do not apply to smokers. So the smoker is routinely subjected to catty and arch insults, jibes, etc. These conversations always begin in the gutter, so to speak, because the initiator has the manners of a guttersnipe.

The only two types of responses I've been able to successfully use are silence and, on rare occasions, some kind of humor. The latter has been possible only a few times over the years.

For example, in your situation I might have responded to "That's rude!" with something like, "Oh, I'm sorry, would you like one?" But given the demeanor of the wildebeest you describe, I probably would have remained silent. These people are generally rage-filled, vindictive pits of bile who are only restrained by whatever social conventions have been successfully sunk into the oozing pile of knee-jerk reactivity that serves them in place of a conscience. Given the opportunity to be their "real self" by the open-season attitude on smokers, they're just dumping on you because their marriages are failures, their kids are neurotic delinquents, they haven't had decent coital release for fifteen years, their parents didn't love them enough, or whatever ill may tempt someone to lash out at the world. 

Your smoking is just the excuse -- any retort you make is an unwitting departure into a "coded dialogue" about how unhappy those people are and whether they have a "right" to take it out on someone. As angry as their remarks make you, the dialogue will only increase the total occurrance of unpleasantness to the point where you won't even taste the excellent smoke you'd chosen for yourself.

I just usually ignore them, and say a silent prayer to bless their benighted, angry little lives.


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

I agree 100% with johnjack. Unfortunately the weight of public opinion about smoking has made these kinds of rude comments and in-your-face confrontations not only acceptable, but somehow noble.

Personally i agree with Denis Leary (paraphrased), "They say smoking takes ten years off your life. Yeah, the wheelchair/adult diaper/kidney dialysis/ fu**ing years."


----------



## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Hmmm. Interesting situation.

My first question is, "Is it legal to smoke where you were when this happened?"

If the answer is yes, then you ought to have graciously informed the person objecting that your behavior and kept on smoking.

If it _wasn't_ legal to smoke where you were, then you ought not to have been smoking there in the first place, and that woman had every right to point that out, even if her comments were ungracious.

No matter what the situation was and what she said, repaying rudeness with even more rudeness never solves anything and is just going to exacerbate the situation.

Just my take,

Chase


----------



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Gentlemen, many thanks for the insightful, thoughtful responses. If I had followed the suggestions offered by *Lushington*,* Wayfarer*, *mpcsb*, *Armchair*, *mclean5*, and *Chase*, things would not have escalated to the extent they did, and I would not have entered into a nasty quarrel when all I wanted to do was enjoy my cigar in peace on a beautiful Sunday afternoon and check out all the pretty girls walking by.

*RSS* - I mention the fat woman's physical traits because I find her, and people like her, quite offensive. Overweight people are repellant. They are rude. And yet, I don't go around confronting them -- while for some reason anti-smoking bigots feel free to confront and provoke smokers! There is a double-standard. In my exchange with the woman and her husband/bf, I made this exact argument and I actually used the term "eye pollution" to describe the effect the woman's appearance had on me. Of course this only fanned the flames, but I think my point is a valid one.

*Globetrotter* - Was my behaviour "ungentlemanly"? Possibly. But it's of no concern to me. I'm not a gentleman and I don't aspire to be one. (It's so middle class...! I generally find men who claim to be gentlemen, ungentlemanly; it always raises my suspicions). In my view a major reason for the decline of civil society in North America and Europe is the refusal by men, the natural leaders of society, to admonish rude, selfish people, especially the young, the female, and the foreign. To sit idly by while being harangued by some disgusting harridan is not in my nature, and plus it's bad for society. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Old Brompton said:


> In my view a major reason for the decline of civil society in North America and Europe is the refusal by men, the natural leaders of society, to admonish rude, selfish people, especially the young, the female, and the foreign. To sit idly by while being harangued by some disgusting harridan is not in my nature, and plus it's bad for society. :icon_smile_wink:


I 100% agree with that, but back when "men were men" they didn't ask how they could avoid a confrontation and do those things.

Now days, a woman is in a win-win situation.

So, she mouths off to you. What are you going to do, hit her and go to jail? She wins.

Mouthing off back and expecting immunity just makes you a woman also. She wins.

I went on a date with a girl like that about 20 years ago. She was 100 pounds and 25 of it was her mouth. After the first 45 minutes or so I told her if she didn't shut up while I drove her back home, I was going to hire this biker chic for $10 to kick her ass. LOL


----------



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Good point. But, I don't expect to avoid confrontation at all, especially with a cigar in hand. I was merely interested in alternative reponses to such individuals.


----------



## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

You could have just told her to mind her own business, without getting personal, or ignored her diatribe completely.

If you're confronted by someone, "yes, but you're stupid/ugly/corpulent" is never the right response, because you have lowered yourself to the other person's level.


----------



## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Old Brompton said:


> I'm not a gentleman and I don't aspire to be one. (It's so middle class...! I generally find men who claim to be gentlemen, ungentlemanly; it always raises my suspicions).


Quite right, too. Couldn't agree more.

Signed,

A Questionable...er...um...well...yes...


----------



## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

VS said:


> If you're confronted by someone, "yes, but you're stupid/ugly/corpulent" is never the right response, because you have lowered yourself to the other person's level.


Nonethless, Churchill once did this with devastating effect to his social arch-nemesis, Lady Astor as follows:

L.A.: Churchill! You're drunk!
W.C.: Yes, but you are ugly. This difference between us is that in the morning I shall be sober.

And on another occasion:

L.A.: If I were your wife, I'd put poison in your tea.
W.C.: If you were my wife, I'd let you.


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Old Brompton said:


> Good point. But, I don't expect to avoid confrontation at all, especially with a cigar in hand. I was merely interested in alternative reponses to such individuals.


Ok. That's not how I read what you said:



Old Brompton said:


> ... *an unpleasant confrontation ensued.
> 
> In order to prevent a recurrence*, and to prevent my becoming a victim of assault and battery from members of the public, I would be interested to hear from other AAAC cigar aficianados as to possible alternative responses to anti-smoking individuals.


What is it you really want to achieve in this circumstance? Perhaps smoke at home and avoid the circumstance all together.

I apologize if I see a contradiction where there isn't one, but it seems like there is some conflict between your various comments regarding intent. Particularly, when you want to play 'referee'.



Old Brompton said:


> To sit idly by while being harangued by some disgusting harridan is not in my nature, and plus it's bad for society. :icon_smile_wink:


Just my opinion.


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Old Brompton said:


> Good point. But, I don't expect to avoid confrontation at all, especially with a cigar in hand.


We may be onto something here. Your response to the woman in question suggests that, not only were you not trying to avoid a confrontation, you may, in fact, have been seeking one.

Assuming you were allowed to smoke where you were smoking, there are still some problems with your responses:

1. Calling attention to the other person's shortcomings is never a justification for your own behavior. (Your response was a good example of the "ad hominen" fallacy. https://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html)

2. I don't think your characterization of the woman's comment to you is accurate. Saying "That's rude," even with a scowl, is not "alarmingly aggressive". It certainly was not enough to suggest that you were close to becoming a victim of assault and battery, as you suggest in your original post.

3. "Overweight people are repellant. They are rude" I hope I'm not the only person on these boards who finds your comment entirely offensive. Do you seriously suggest that the only non-rude choice for overweight people is to hide themselves from the public view until they attain the weight you think they should be?

4. "[M]en, the natural leaders of society"? You're kidding, right?


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> 3. "Overweight people are repellant. They are rude" I hope I'm not the only person on these boards who finds your comment entirely offensive. Do you seriously suggest that the only non-rude choice for overweight people is to hide themselves from the public view until they attain the weight you think they should be?


Conversely, was the woman seriously suggesting that the only non-rude choice for smokers is to hide themselves from the public view until they attain the non-smoker status she thinks they should have?

Old Brompton's point was taken, at least by me.


----------



## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

jackmccullough said:


> You're kidding, right?


I don't think he is joking, I think that he is a joke.


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Assuming you were in an area where you were allowed to smoke, you could have just smiled and maybe blown a few smoke rings. 
I will never find myself in this situation, since I only smoke my cigars at home or with friends at a cigar bar. I like to enjoy mine with a nice glass of Scotch or Irish Whiskey.


----------



## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Old Brompton said:


> *RSS* - I mention the fat woman's physical traits because I find her, and people like her, quite offensive. Overweight people are repellant. They are rude. And yet, I don't go around confronting them -- while for some reason anti-smoking bigots feel free to confront and provoke smokers! *Globetrotter* - Was my behaviour "ungentlemanly"? Possibly. But it's of no concern to me. I'm not a gentleman and I don't aspire to be one. (It's so middle class...! I generally find men who claim to be gentlemen, ungentlemanly; it always raises my suspicions). In my view a major reason for the decline of civil society in North America and Europe is the refusal by men, the natural leaders of society, to admonish rude, selfish people, especially the young, the female, and the foreign. To sit idly by while being harangued by some disgusting harridan is not in my nature, and plus it's bad for society. :icon_smile_wink:


Clearly you have achieved your wish of not becoming a gentleman; rather, you are, or have become, the worst kind of boor. I'm guessing, based on your comments above, that your response to her was simply the best your limited wit could muster in the moment.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Old Brompton said:


> In order to prevent a recurrence, and to prevent my becoming a victim of assault and battery from members of the public, I would be interested to hear from other AAAC cigar aficianados as to possible alternative responses to anti-smoking individuals. What works for you...?


Old Brompton; Had you spoken in such a fashion to a companion of mine, I fear your opening post would have come too late to prevent that cigar you were smoking from becoming your afternoon snack. Yes, the lady's comment may have been uncalled for but, yours was unconscionable and inexcuseable. While indeed you may have achieved the questionable goal of not wanting to be a proper gentleman, as "rip" observed, you are indeed a boor in every sense of the word. Boorish behavoir is far more objectionable than second hand smoke!


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Oh well, now Brompton has given me another reason to pursue my weight loss. Maybe he will invite me to his parties when I am thin enough to pass his test!!!

I anticipate his acceptance with bated breath.


----------



## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

jackmccullough said:


> We may be onto something here. Your response to the woman in question suggests that, not only were you not trying to avoid a confrontation, you may, in fact, have been seeking one.


That too was my first thought ... given the original post ... and especially when taking subsequent responses into consideration. Some people thrive on confrontation.

Of course, I'm one who enjoys a good argument ... but only when done within the bounds of civility. This isn't to say I haven't crossed the boundary from time to time ... but I typically regret it.

No ... I'm not going to let someone walk on me ... I'm not about to ... but I'm not going to respond with a rude slur.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

THis is a subject that can get under my skin like few others...Many is the time that I have been in areas where smoking was allowed and been asked by a (usually) pushy person to move...now if they are polite about it, I dont mind accomodating...if they are rude, I usually point out to them that there are alot more areas where smoking is prohibited that they could go to...but the one I hate more than all is when people dont even ask, they just give the fake cough, or wave their hand in front of their face...I've even seen some jerk go as far as to pull his t-shirt up over his mouth & nose and increase his speed as he walked by as if he was running through a burning building or something...perhaps it's totally classless, but I make it a point to blow smoke directly at those kind of people...


----------



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

*Ksinc* -- Yes, I'm afraid you are seeing a "contradiction" where there isn't one. Apology accepted.



jackmccullough said:



> Saying "That's rude," even with a scowl, is not "alarmingly aggressive". It certainly was not enough to suggest that you were close to becoming a victim of assault and battery, as you suggest in your original post.


It was the subsequent behavior of the woman, and the man at her side, that was "alarmingly aggressive," as I thought I had made clear. Anti-smoking bigots, apparently, become enraged when they encounter resistance.



eagle2250 said:


> Old Brompton; Had you spoken in such a fashion to a companion of mine, I fear your opening post would have come too late to prevent that cigar you were smoking from becoming your afternoon snack. ..


Well then, for your sake, you'd better hope we don't cross paths. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

Old Brompton said:


> *Ksinc* --
> 
> It was the subsequent behavior of the woman, and the man at her side, that was "alarmingly aggressive," as I thought I had made clear. Anti-smoking bigots, apparently, become enraged when they encounter resistance.
> 
> :


resistance? you called her a fat ass


----------



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> Nonethless, Churchill once did this with devastating effect to his social arch-nemesis, Lady Astor as follows:
> 
> L.A.: Churchill! You're drunk!
> W.C.: Yes, but you are ugly. This difference between us is that in the morning I shall be sober.


Yes, exactly! I was thinking of something along the lines of: "...In the next fifteen minutes, my cigar will extinguish itself. But your *ss will still be fat." The expression on her doughy American face would have been priceless. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

globetrotter said:


> resistance? you called her a fat ass


Among other things, I can assure you.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Old Brompton said:


> The expression on her doughy* American* face would have been priceless. :icon_smile_big:


Am I to assume then that even though you have California listed as your place of residence you are not American? The need to specify that would indicate you are an immigrant, otherwise it would just be assumed she is American.


----------



## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

As an inveterate cigar smoker myself, I appreciate the annoyance of having to occassionally deal with "smoke nazi's". I smoke knowing full well that it's an unhealthy habit that is also unhealthy to people who might inhale my smoke. I always make sure I smoke where it's legal and if I'm at a private residence, I always ask first. FWIW, weather and time permitting I smoke up to 3 cigars a day.

OB, if your goal was to smoke in peace, you took a side track in order to get into a personal confrontation. Her physical attributes are beside the point. If you wanted to get into a confrontation, you succeeded.

Assuming you were permitted to smoke outside NM, the rude lady was out of line. On the few occassions when I've been confronted by people like that I told them I'm sorry it bothered them but that I was there first and I'm permitted to smoke. If they persisted, I reminded them that I'm permitted to smoke and then ignored them completely. After getting the last word, they then went away.

IMO, that is the proper way to respond to anti-smokers.


----------



## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

It seems that your original post was somewhat misleading. You claimed you were looking for alternatives on how you might have handled this situation differently.

Sadly, it seems that you are actually more interested in bragging about how you bravely stood up to your hapless 'tormentor' and really (and proudly) dressed her down in a gleefully ungentlemanly manner. 

Rather than advice, apparently you were looking for a hearty "well-done!"


----------



## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

And I for one, will not give it to him. I smoke cigars but there is no way I would follow up on that biddy's remark with something as vile and un-gentlemanly as Old Brompton did. (Is that your new name, Fogey? If I am wrong please allow me to apologize).


----------



## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Hi guys. This thread has been* REPORTED!* We moderators are all busy right now. Whomever screwed up, please fix it. Self-moderate. Don't make us come over here cuz we're a lean, mean, moderating machine!

Thank you all, in advance, for your cooperation.


----------



## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

I'm not a smoker and I'd say Old Brompton was wrong, if this was any other situation. But anti- smokers are constant and sometimes belligerent, if a smoker is confronted enough, I can imagine them going as far Brompton did. Smokers seem under siege and anti -smokers are so righteous they don't feel the need to be respectful when approaching someone.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I agree and even though I am allergic to smoke, I am embarrassed by the vehemence of many anti-smokers. 

(I fact, I frequently jokingly offer my newest 15 minute smoking lecture to smokers. None has ever asked me to deliver the lecture, though.)

However, the response was as jerky as the anti-smokers introductory rudeness. Sooner or later this kind of belligerence will lead to an unpleasant result.


----------



## PennGlock (Mar 14, 2006)

Old Brompton said:


> Was my behaviour "ungentlemanly"? Possibly. But it's of no concern to me. I'm not a gentleman and I don't aspire to be one. (It's so middle class...! I generally find men who claim to be gentlemen, ungentlemanly; it always raises my suspicions). In my view a major reason for the decline of civil society in North America and Europe is the refusal by men, the natural leaders of society, to admonish rude, selfish people, especially the young, the female, and the foreign. To sit idly by while being harangued by some disgusting harridan is not in my nature, and plus it's bad for society. :icon_smile_wink:


Thanks for reminding me why I continue to read these fora. You're alright, Old Brompton.


----------



## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

I read the original post and nothing more. Please, please come and post more on the trad forum. You owe it to you fans--me being the biggest of all. You, sir, are a treasure.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

There was a time when a gentleman didn't smoke in the presence of a woman, therefore a man is always wrong when smoking in the presence of a woman.

The money you spend for a year or two on smoking is enough to buy a bespoke suit. Why then, would one waste ones money on smokes?


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

A.Squire said:


> I read the original post and nothing more. Please, please come and post more on the trad forum. You owe it to you fans--me being the biggest of all. You, sir, are a treasure.


Unless one equates boorish behavoir with "a treasure," I am suprised and a bit disappointed by your assessment!


----------



## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

A.Squire said:


> I read the original post and nothing more. Please, please come and post more on the trad forum. You owe it to you fans--me being the biggest of all. You, sir, are a treasure.


Is there a "tongue-in-cheek" icon I'm missing here?


----------



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Gentlemen, yesterday evening and this afternoon I spent some time in the same public shopping area (see original post), armed with lit cigar and ready tongue, partly to relax and partly to see what would happen, and on both occasions I was confronted by...other cigar smokers! Both chaps were very friendly, and when I related my story to them they replied with even more horrendous tales of their own. I've had confrontations with anti-smoking nazis before, but it seems as if these 'scenes' are more common than I had supposed.


----------



## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Umm, Old Brompton, we still don't know if it's permissible to smoke in the mall area where you enjoy your cigar...


Kind Regards,

Chase


----------



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Chase Hamilton said:


> Umm, Old Brompton, we still don't know if it's permissible to smoke in the mall area where you enjoy your cigar...
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Chase


Yes, it is.


----------



## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Chase Hamilton said:


> Umm, Old Brompton, we still don't know if it's permissible to smoke in the mall area where you enjoy your cigar...
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> ...


Oh! Well, if you *can* smoke there (and this is coming from somebody who _hates _second hand smoke,) then I hope you enjoyed yourself!

Of course, I hope you plan to treat any Anti-Smoke "Nazis" with _all_ of the same tact and diplomacy that they are showing you. 

Kind Regards,

Chase


----------



## cufflink44 (Oct 31, 2005)

Old Brompton said:


> I mention the fat woman's physical traits because I find her, and people like her, quite offensive. Overweight people are repellant. They are rude. And yet, I don't go around confronting them -- while for some reason anti-smoking bigots feel free to confront and provoke smokers! There is a double-standard. In my exchange with the woman and her husband/bf, I made this exact argument and I actually used the term "eye pollution" to describe the effect the woman's appearance had on me. Of course this only fanned the flames, but I think my point is a valid one.
> 
> *. . . *Was my behaviour "ungentlemanly"? Possibly. But it's of no concern to me. I'm not a gentleman and I don't aspire to be one. (It's so middle class...! I generally find men who claim to be gentlemen, ungentlemanly; it always raises my suspicions). In my view a major reason for the decline of civil society in North America and Europe is the refusal by men, the natural leaders of society, to admonish rude, selfish people, especially the young, the female, and the foreign. To sit idly by while being harangued by some disgusting harridan is not in my nature, and plus it's bad for society. :icon_smile_wink:


 I have a sneaking suspicion "Old Brompton" is actually Sacha Baron Cohen's latest persona.


----------



## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Chase Hamilton said:


> Of course, I hope you plan to treat any Anti-Smoke "Nazis" with _all_ of the same tact and diplomacy that they are showing you.


"Tact and diplomacy"? Hardly. I have a talent for invective, I concede, and I like to trot it out for show on occasion. In light of last week's events, however, I plan to enjoy my stogies collectively, that is, with fellow cigar-smokers, which may not only add an element of conviviality to proceedings, but may act as a deterrent to poisonous busy-bodies and other members of the public who take it upon themselves to target smokers. Stay tuned. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> Nonethless, Churchill once did this with devastating effect to his social arch-nemesis, Lady Astor as follows:
> 
> L.A.: Churchill! You're drunk!
> W.C.: Yes, but you are ugly. This difference between us is that in the morning I shall be sober.
> ...


All that means is that Churchill could be an ass, which shouldn't surprise anybody.


----------



## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

The proper way to deal with smokers is with a bucket of water.

Smokers are so rude.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

and the bucket of water wouldn't be??

(And this is from someone who is allergic to tobacco smoke)

Civility is a virtue. It is also a good way to keep your teeth intact.

Maybe you and Brompton should be locked in a room together. You could teach each other a good lesson.


----------



## Clio (Jan 22, 2007)

Old Brompton said:


> I have a talent for invective, I concede, and I like to trot it out for show on occasion.


Calling someone a "fat *ss" is a talent for invective? Standards are declining more rapidly than I thought. In general, if one has to claim they have a talent for something it is usually a case of wishfulness rather than fact. And if having a fat *ss is rude, as you claim, how do you know she wasn't simply commenting on some aspect of your own appearance and not your cigar? Since the title of the thread indicates you are seeking advice, I would advise you to practice your "talent for invective" at home in front of the mirror before you actually try it out in public. I've heard better from ten year olds.


----------



## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

A more subtle response to our original complainant waould have been, "I find that the occasional cigar increases my metabolism and helps me to control my weight. [Looking at her thighs:] I think more people should consider the positive aspects of tobacco, as well as the negative."

I was sitting in the designated smoking area of my club's lounge one evening (when it still permitted smoking) enjoying a cigar. The room was packed, but this guest of another member came over and asked me if I would extinguish my cigar as she was pregnant. I replied, "well, you shouldn't be sitting in the smoking section then." I feel my response was perfectly justified.


----------



## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Blackadder said:


> A more subtle response to our original complainant waould have been, "I find that the occasional cigar increases my metabolism and helps me to control my weight. [Looking at her thighs:] I think more people should consider the positive aspects of tobacco, as well as the negative."
> 
> I was sitting in the designated smoking area of my club's lounge one evening (when it still permitted smoking) enjoying a cigar. The room was packed, but this guest of another member came over and asked me if I would extinguish my cigar *as she was pregnant.* I replied, "well, you shouldn't be sitting in the smoking section then." I feel my response was perfectly justified.


You should have asked her if she realized what caused that condition.


----------



## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

Blackadder said:


> A more subtle response to our original complainant waould have been, "I find that the occasional cigar increases my metabolism and helps me to control my weight. [Looking at her thighs:] I think more people should consider the positive aspects of tobacco, as well as the negative."
> 
> I was sitting in the designated smoking area of my club's lounge one evening (when it still permitted smoking) enjoying a cigar. The room was packed, but this guest of another member came over and asked me if I would extinguish my cigar as she was pregnant. I replied, "well, you shouldn't be sitting in the smoking section then." I feel my response was perfectly justified.


with all the sympathy that i have for pregnant women and mothers - I agree. there are so few places that you can smoke today that a pregnant woman simply shouldn't be in any of them. also, people don't realize that once having lit up a $20 stick, you can't just snub it out.


----------



## RSS (Dec 30, 2003)

Blackadder said:


> I was sitting in the designated smoking area of my club's lounge one evening (when it still permitted smoking) enjoying a cigar. The room was packed, but this guest of another member came over and asked me if I would extinguish my cigar as she was pregnant. I replied, "well, you shouldn't be sitting in the smoking section then." I feel my response was perfectly justified.


Living in Berkeley, CA where things can get a bit too PC ... I applaud you for your response. A polite but firm response is sometimes essential to avoid others taking advantage of you.

Disclaimer: I am not a smoker.


----------



## giff74 (Jan 15, 2007)

Wayfarer said:


> After reading some of the replies, maybe a more intellectual approach on the insult? Something such as, "My dear, you appear to have exceeded the weight limit of those jeans 100 lbs ago"


That is funny! I feel people often ask for it, so I tend to give it back also. The only thing I may change is, "if you are so worried about your health, go find a treadmill."


----------

