# Cartier Watch and their Movements (Quartz vs Automatic)



## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

I've been looking at Cartier watches for a few weeks now and am torn between two models in particular. The Santos 100 with the leather strap and the Solo Ronde.

The Santos is an oversized automatic, and runs about $5.5K, but the Solo Ronde is much thinner and low profile with a quartz movement and runs about $2.5K.

What bothers me about the Santos is that it's not a chronometer movement, and I've heard owners say it can typically run between 10-15 seconds off a day. The two things that bug me about the Solo Ronde is that it lacks a second hand (which just strikes me as weird) and it has an extra set of arabic numerals on the inside of the dial, which also look bizzarre to me. Also I'm told the strap on the Santos is a higher quality alligator than that on the Ronde. Is this really that cut and dried?

What do you think of these two models comparatively? I wish there was some happy medium in between them, but I'm not sure that one exists.

The Santos XL https://www.islander.co.kr/blog/attach/1/1889372930.jpg

The Solo Ronde (pictured here
https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/mai...1408474399545537&bmUID=1209612252964&ev19=1:5


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## cbird (Oct 27, 2006)

I agree - the Ronde is an odd looking watch - looks like a department store "fashion watch", not a classic design. Made in Australia?
The Santos is very sharp - one of the only Cartiers I've seen that grabs me. The case and dial are solid looking, with classic Cartier design elements. 
If it were me, I'd definitely go for the Santos. I have a hard time believing Cartier would have a movement that is off by 12 to 15 seconds a day. Even the usual ETA movements are capable of much higher levels of precision (and this watch probably contains an ETA movement).


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## Otter (Aug 14, 2007)

I have to agree that the 100 is a much more attractive watch. I happen to be a Cartier Authorized dealer, and thus handle these watches every day. The strap on the Santos is constructed quite differently than the Ronde. The 100s strap has a large plastic piece inside of it at the top, which helps it to retain shape (and make the watch not fit if you are a VERY large wristed person). 

Personally, if you have the choice between the two, there is no choice, the 100 all the way! I think that if you are looking for an elegant dress watch, Cartier has better options, such as the Tank Solo, the Tank Louis (if you can swing the $$), or even the tank francaise.

For what it is worth, ETA makes the movements on both of these watches. They are simply finished in house by Cartier. Cartier seems to only make their more complicated movements. Most others are made by ETA, Jaeger, Piaget, and a few others.

hope this helps, let me know if you need any more insight, I'd be happy to post from work tomorrow with watches in hand.

Ryan


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

Otter said:


> Personally, if you have the choice between the two, there is no choice, the 100 all the way! I think that if you are looking for an elegant dress watch, Cartier has better options, such as the Tank Solo, the Tank Louis (if you can swing the $$), or even the tank francaise.
> 
> hope this helps, let me know if you need any more insight, I'd be happy to post from work tomorrow with watches in hand.
> 
> Ryan


Hi Ryan,

It's great to have a Cartier expert among us. I guess it must be my lucky day. :icon_smile:

I've also seen the Tank Solo before, but have never thought twice about it until now. I want something dressy and minimalist with a black leather strap and something in stainless steel, so it would seem that the tank solo would fit the bill. I like that it doesn't have the second set of arabic numerals inside it like the Ronde, but as far as I can tell from pictures it lacks the date display window that the Ronde has. Is this true, or am I just looking at the wrong pictures?

Other than that and the shape, are there any other differences between the Tank and Ronde? Initially I just assumed they were identical in all ways except for the shape of the case.

I like the Tank Francaise quite a bit because of it's guilloche dial. Is there a stainless steel version with the guilloche dial on a leather strap with a date function?

When I tried on the Santos 100 with the black leather straps, it struck me as odd that the local Cartier dealer only had medium and extra large sizes. The XL was too big on my wrist, and the jeweller advised against the medium as it is considered more a ladies watch. Is there a large size in that style as well?

Also, I find it a bit odd that the tank solo and ronde both lack second-hands. Is there a reason for that?

I realize I've thrown a million questions at you, but if you could provide any insight, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Omair


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

I certainly welcome and appreciate Otter's comments as an AD for Cartier and other fine watches. Although quartz watches certainly keep accurate time, there is little justification for any quartz watch to be priced in the thousands of dollar range in my opinion. 

Yes, I know that even Rolex has an Oyster quartz line, basically you are paying for the name and the fact that some of these watches contain gold. But I do have a hard time paying all that money for a quartz watch, and would recommend that if you are going to shell out a couple of thousand dollars, the watch should have a quality mechanical movement justifying that cost.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

DocD said:


> Although quartz watches certainly keep accurate time, there is little justification for any quartz watch to be priced in the thousands of dollar range in my opinion.
> 
> ...if you are going to shell out a couple of thousand dollars, the watch should have a quality mechanical movement justifying that cost.


I am quite aware of this whole mechanical vs quartz debate. I already have a COSC chronometer which I'm quite happy with. But I'm not entirely convinced that a mechanical watch is really that much better. Quartz has a few advantages for me namely accuracy, much lower maintenance cost, much more robust movement, and it won't stop if I don't wear it on a regular basis (some people say winders put unnecessary wear and tear on watches.) Quartz also lends itself well to much slimmer cases like the tank solo and ronde solo, as you can't fit an automatic movement into a case that slim. I do the like the way the automatic second hand has a slightly smoother sweep (although it still does have a tick tick tick motion, just at a much faster rate.) But for the tank solo that is a moot point since it does not have a second hand.

If the Santos 100 was a chronometer grade movement, I would feel much better, but something about paying double for a watch that will be off by 10 seconds a day bothers me more than just buying a quartz watch. Even with my chronometer I find myself checking on a daily basis how many seconds it's off, a non-chronometer might drive me mad.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

omairp said:


> Also, I find it a bit odd that the tank solo and ronde both lack second-hands. Is there a reason for that?Thanks,
> Omair


Many fine watches lack a second hand; it's just a matter of design and taste; the ones that immediately spring to mind are the classic Cartier tank, several models of the Tank Americain and several models of the Patek Calatrava. Many find the dial to be much cleaner without the second hand. Although most of my personal watches have second hands, I must admit to almost never being in a situation where I needed to know the time down to the second (and if I did, and had any concern at all about accuracy, I would almost certainly want to be wearing a quartz watch. Say what you will about mechanical movements, and I love a finely-made movement, they just cannot begin to match a properly adjusted quartz movement for accuracy).


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

omairp said:


> I am quite aware of this whole mechanical vs quartz debate. I already have a COSC chronometer which I'm quite happy with. But I'm not entirely convinced that a mechanical watch is really that much better. Quartz has a few advantages for me namely accuracy, much lower maintenance cost, much more robust movement, and it won't stop if I don't wear it on a regular basis (some people say winders put unnecessary wear and tear on watches.) Quartz also lends itself well to much slimmer cases like the tank solo and ronde solo, as you can't fit an automatic movement into a case that slim. I do the like the way the automatic second hand has a slightly smoother sweep (although it still does have a tick tick tick motion, just at a much faster rate.) But for the tank solo that is a moot point since it does not have a second hand.
> 
> If the Santos 100 was a chronometer grade movement, I would feel much better, but something about paying double for a watch that will be off by 10 seconds a day bothers me more than just buying a quartz watch. Even with my chronometer I find myself checking on a daily basis how many seconds it's off, a non-chronometer might drive me mad.


Even the COSC standards are only -4/+6 seconds per day (which is, BTW, a range of 10 seconds). If you're that obsessed with accuracy, how can you stand to wear any mechanical watch?


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

rip said:


> Even the COSC standards are only -4/+6 seconds per day (which is, BTW, a range of 10 seconds). If you're that obsessed with accuracy, how can you stand to wear any mechanical watch?


Mine is an Omega. Omega tolerances for their own chronometers are -1/+6 seconds per day, according to the owner's manual. I've found I've consistently got +3 seconds per day since I purchased it. I'm OK with that, but anymore and it might bug me. I plan on having Omega send me the actual COSC certificate that shows the results of the testing, hopefully I can use that to find a position to store it in to make it even more accurate. (I know, I'm kinda obsessive.)


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## Beachcomber (Apr 6, 2008)

The lack of a second hand or any other garish complication or techincal advance generally raises the class status of the watch. Why would any U or member of the leisure class need to know time down to the second, bus drivers maybe, but a gentleman can usually get by with some approximatation of the time of day. Have you considered an Oris? They make a classic chronometer w/ eta movmt @ a fair price (~$1,000). See . Additionally, Oris are only recognized by true cognoscenti and are thus less vulgar than Rolex, et al and other class totems. If you want Quartz, it's hard to do better than a Timex Easy Reader on a grosgrain strap - very East Coast establishment and only costs $30 at Target.


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## shawndo (Feb 22, 2007)

Random info:

- I believe any watch without a second hand can not be COSC certified. I read this is the only reason the BASE panerai's don't come with certifications.

- Also, there are different COSC standards for quartz and mechanical. (The quartz tolerances are much lower)

- If it does have an ETA movement and it is off 10 seconds a day, it can be adjusted by a watchmaker.

On the opinion above about spending thousands on a quartz watch. I think this is really just an opinion on Cartier watches in general. If you are buying Cartier in the first place, I think you've decided that you are putting value in something other than purely the internals of the watch. You can get the same ETA movements in much less expensive watches.

I am a long time quartz-hater. If I did get a quartz, it would surely be one without a second hand, so I wouldn't be reminded!

As far as nice watches without a second hand. https://www.thepurists.com/watch/features/8ohms/jlchw/index.html


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

shawndo said:


> - Also, there are different COSC standards for quartz and mechanical. (The quartz tolerances are much lower)
> 
> - If it does have an ETA movement and it is off 10 seconds a day, it can be adjusted by a watchmaker.
> 
> On the opinion above about spending thousands on a quartz watch. I think this is really just an opinion on Cartier watches in general. If you are buying Cartier in the first place, I think you've decided that you are putting value in something other than purely the internals of the watch. You can get the same ETA movements in much less expensive watches.


The COSC standard for quartz is .07 sec per day, as opposed to -4/+6 sec for a mechanical watch, and yes, almost any COSC mechanical timepiece can be adjusted far finer than COSC standards; in some instances, +/- 1 sec. That said, they must be very well maintained to hold that accuracy for any reasonable period of time.

With Cartier, you generally are paying for jewelry design (exquisite design, IMO) more than you are paying for a fine watch movement unless you are buying vintage, in which case you can find Patek movements, EWC movements (considered to be at least the equal of Patek), LeCoultre movements, etc. Personally, I'd rather have a finely designed Cartier such as the 42mm Pasha (my all-time favorite watch) or even the classic tank watch than anything offered by Rolex.


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

My point wasn't the benefits or accuracies of quartz vs. mechanical. I simply admire mechanical watches for the "art" of what makes them "tick".

The intent and point of my original post was that IF you were going to spend several thousand dollars for a watch, I simply couldn't justify doing that when a watch contained a quartz movement, that was basically the same movement that can be found in a $30 Timex.

No one will argue that any quartz movement will be more accurate than a mechanical watch, but accuracy was not the point I was attempting to make. A quartz movement can be manufactured for a couple of bucks or less, and the same can not be said for the world's finest mechanical movements. 

That's why I simply stated that I could not justify spending that kind of cash on the Cartier with a quartz movement. In MY opinion, it would be like buying a Ferrari with an automatic transmission!


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

Beachcomber said:


> . Additionally, Oris are only recognized by true cognoscenti and are thus less vulgar than Rolex, et al and other class totems.


The model you linked to is quite an appealing design, but they're silent on whether the strap is genuine alligator or not. Still, I might have to visit my local Oris dealer to see it in person.

Personally I don't have any problem with buying an obscure brand very few have ever heard of like Oris, or a very famous brand everyone has heard of like Rolex, as long as the watch in question appeals to me.



shawndo said:


> If you are buying Cartier in the first place, I think you've decided that you are putting value in something other than purely the internals of the watch. You can get the same ETA movements in much less expensive watches.
> 
> As far as nice watches without a second hand. https://www.thepurists.com/watch/features/8ohms/jlchw/index.html


That is a beautiful watch indeed.

Agreed. First and foremost I am after the aesthetics of the design, and secondly in equal parts I'm after a well-respected brand in the world of horology and a certain level of functionality.

Truthfully with any watch, quartz or mechanical, you're paying primarily for the name. Sure JLC, IWC, etc have more expensive in-house movements, but a marginally more expensive movement translates into a substantially more expensive watch.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

DocD said:


> My point wasn't the benefits or accuracies of quartz vs. mechanical. I simply admire mechanical watches for the "art" of what makes them "tick".
> 
> The intent and point of my original post was that IF you were going to spend several thousand dollars for a watch, I simply couldn't justify doing that when a watch contained a quartz movement, that was basically the same movement that can be found in a $30 Timex.
> 
> ...


I understand the point of your original post, however you did bring in the issue of chronometers and quartz watches. Just FYI, the common misconception that all quartz movements are somehow the same and all cost $1.25 to manufacture is just that: a misconception. As with mechanical movements, there is a large range of quality in quartz movements and the highly-jeweled (for quartz) movements one finds in high-end watches such as Cartier are anything but cheap.


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## Otter (Aug 14, 2007)

omairp said:


> Hi Ryan,
> 
> It's great to have a Cartier expert among us. I guess it must be my lucky day. :icon_smile:
> 
> ...


Omair,

Sorry I didn't get a chance to reply while in the shop today. I'll do my best to answer without the watches in front of me.

The Tank Solo, which is very similar to the "Classic Tank" as described above which Cartier calls the "Tank Louis Cartier" (which happens to be the first square wristwatch ever built) does not have the arabic numerals on the dial. I will have to look to see if any of the sizes are available with a date, but I don't believe that they are.

As stated by another member, I agree that the absence of a second hand leaves out the "ticking" motion that many people may take offense to. I believe that this makes the watch much more elegant, and if you place it on your night stand, you will not hear it, as you would with a ticking second hand.

On the models available for the tank francaise again I'll have to check on.

The Santos 100 is available in 3 sizes (Med. Lg. XL chrono) If the watch that you looked at had a chronograph, it was the XL, if not it was a large (which certainly is large enough to be called XL by anyones terms) I personally have only sold the medium to ladies as well.

I hope some of these answers have helped you out. There is some great insight here. I think that we all understand that there is added value to the Cartier name, as there is with many others. If you are looking for houte horology at a bargain basement price, these may not be the watches for you, but if you are looking for an absolutely beautifully designed jewelry watch, with a very nicely made movement, I think that these may be for you! [/sales pitch]


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

Thanks Otter!

I went back to the local Cartier AD today and took a closer look at the tank francaise, tank solo, ronde solo, and Santos 100 as well as some Baume & Mercier Classima's, Bvlgari Assioma's, and a few other models. The only thing I've figured out so far with any certainty is I will need to do alot more research before I run out and buy another watch.

I saw a picture of a WG Tank Francaise on a navy strap that looked incredibly striking. I might even consider picking up a SS tank francaise and buying a navy strap separately. But I will have to wait a bit longer to purchase a piece of that price.

What do you guys think of this look?

Regards,
Omair


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## DocD (Jun 2, 2007)

rip,

You are correct, there are definitely varying quality of quartz movements, just as there are varying quality of mechanical movements. You can find mechanical movements in garbage Rolex/Breitling replicas on the streets in Manhattan every day.

But as you know, my point is/was simply that I personally could not justify spending several thousand dollars for a watch with a quartz movement of even the highest quality.

But, that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.


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## Otter (Aug 14, 2007)

omairp said:


> Thanks Otter!
> 
> I went back to the local Cartier AD today and took a closer look at the tank francaise, tank solo, ronde solo, and Santos 100 as well as some Baume & Mercier Classima's, Bvlgari Assioma's, and a few other models. The only thing I've figured out so far with any certainty is I will need to do alot more research before I run out and buy another watch.
> 
> ...


I really like that look. We had a yellow gold TF on a very rich havana brown leather strap a few months back. Personally I thought that watch was much more interesting than the tank solo, or louis. I just can't get my head past the citizen copy of the tank louis/solo, that watch has ruined very thin tanks for me


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

omairp said:


> Thanks Otter!
> 
> I went back to the local Cartier AD today and took a closer look at the tank francaise, tank solo, ronde solo, and Santos 100 as well as some Baume & Mercier Classima's, Bvlgari Assioma's, and a few other models. The only thing I've figured out so far with any certainty is I will need to do alot more research before I run out and buy another watch.
> 
> ...


Along with the Pasha, this watch and the Tank Americain are among my favorite Cartiers. I particularly like them in white gold or platinum.


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## tsasls (Apr 30, 2008)

The choice between a quartz or mechanical movement in a fine swiss watch should be based on the reputation of the Swiss watch industry. That reputation was based on mechanical movement watches. The establishment of quartz movements allowed the Japanese to dominate the watch industry. If you are considering a Swiss watch,you should realize the workmanship in a mechanical movement is way more than in a quartz movement. It's interesting to note that the higher end lines of Swiss watches do not make quartz movement watches.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

tsasls said:


> The choice between a quartz or mechanical movement in a fine swiss watch should be based on the reputation of the Swiss watch industry. That reputation was based on mechanical movement watches. The establishment of quartz movements allowed the Japanese to dominate the watch industry. If you are considering a Swiss watch,you should realize the workmanship in a mechanical movement is way more than in a quartz movement. It's interesting to note that the higher end lines of Swiss watches do not make quartz movement watches.


It's ironic how the quartz movement became a victim of it's own success. I've read that originally a few swiss firms tried to develop and market quartz watches as ultra-precise high-end items until the Japanese beat them to the punch and made it so cost effective, the swiss couldn't compete. In the world of horology there seems to be a perpetual quest for better time-keeping, whether it's through the introduction of tourbollion movements, co-axial escapements, COSC certifications, etc... and while the quartz has managed to beat all of them in accuracy, it's shunned because it's too economical to be lucrative for swiss manufacturers.


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## Otter (Aug 14, 2007)

omairp said:


> It's ironic how the quartz movement became a victim of it's own success. I've read that originally a few swiss firms tried to develop and market quartz watches as ultra-precise high-end items until the Japanese beat them to the punch and made it so cost effective, the swiss couldn't compete. In the world of horology there seems to be a perpetual quest for better time-keeping, whether it's through the introduction of tourbollion movements, co-axial escapements, COSC certifications, etc... and while the quartz has managed to beat all of them in accuracy, it's shunned because it's too economical to be lucrative for swiss manufacturers.


LOL, I have often thought of this argument. Of course the flip side of this argument is for the beauty and craftsmanship of the well made automatic, but, for many people, it is tough to convey the argument of price/precision and craftsmanship.


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