# Are Zegna suits fully canvassed?



## Billyjo88 (Mar 6, 2010)

Expert opinions welcome! :icon_study:


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

The very expensive 'Made in Italy' ones probably are. However Zegna has become one of those brands that one sees all too often now, Like D&G, Armani, Abercrombie, Gucci, Burberry, Boss, CK and RL. Mostly 'imported' products sold for a high price, because they have a luxury name on them.


It's quite surprising how many Chinese products have the 'Zegna' name on them now. Any Zegna suits, blazers and sport jackets one finds here will almost certainly be glued.


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## sclemmons (Mar 4, 2006)

The Made in Switzerland Zegna suits are very nice. They fit better than Oxxford to me, and are a bargain at the price. I don't know whether they are canvassed or not. I would bet they are.


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## BespokeMex (Nov 13, 2010)

> The Made in Switzerland Zegna suits are very nice.


My father used to wear Zegna, Brioni, Kiton, etc. throughout the 70s, 80s, and 90s, and I remember him saying that the best made Zegnas were the ones made in Switzerland, and then the ones made in Spain. He used to travel to Europe to buy them because apparently you couldn't get those here. So I guess not every Zegna is the same. Also, every designer and manufacturer who has more than one line, showcases their top-of-the-line clothes, and then lets the Chinese pick up the slack with the same tag, and unfortunately, price.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

The Swiss-made Zegnas I own are fully canvassed.
As for what one finds in China, that country is so full of counterfeits that one could not truthfully determine _anything _about a brand, based upon what is sold in China.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

what does canvassed mean


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Zegna seem to have manufacturing sites all over the place. I am not up to date with their facilities.

However, their top of the range Zegna Couture is made in Italy IIRC. Their Z-Zegna range is fused. I have also seen some fused Swiss made coats, but these were a bit older. I have seen some Zegna on sale in the US made in places like Mexico. I have seen others made in, I think, Rumania (?).

I've not had the chance (yet) to dissect any of their garments, but might consider doing it in the future. Overall, the quality of what they made seems pretty decent. They also manufacture for Tom Ford, and show a good degree of flexibility in the way they cut and make up for clients like him.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

a!!!!1 said:


> what does canvassed mean


Wow! 604 posts and you still don't know :icon_smile_big:


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

Sator said:


> Wow! 604 posts and you still don't know :icon_smile_big:


im homeless i just get on the computer in the library to check out this site and fantasize about how my life will be after i win the lottery


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## BespokeMex (Nov 13, 2010)

605 and counting!:icon_jokercolor:


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## clintonf (Apr 2, 2007)

Have a look at the link below. It's old, but it may help.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...truction-of-Zegna&highlight=zegna+switzerland

Cheers

Clint


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> The Swiss-made Zegnas I own are fully canvassed.
> As for what one finds in China, that country is so full of counterfeits that one could not truthfully determine _anything _about a brand, based upon what is sold in China.


Well I see Zegna as one of those brands which has become too popular for it's own good. It's lost it's exclusivity and prestige IMO. One sees this brand everywhere now, like the previously mentioned Armani, D&G, Abercrombie, etc. Especially in China, where most of it is glued and faked.

BTW in China, school students will often write the names of popular famous western luxury brands on their tracksuit type school uniforms with permanent marker, including 'Zegna' and 'Ermenegildo'.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

MikeDT said:


> Well I see Zegna as one of those brands which has become too popular for it's own good. It's lost it's exclusivity and prestige IMO. One sees this brand everywhere now, like the previously mentioned Armani, D&G, Abercrombie, etc. Especially in China, where most of it is glued and faked.


Again, the point is that the experience in China (the land of rampant counterfeits) can not be projected beyond its borders. 
What you say does not _at all_ hold true for most of the rest of the world.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> Again, the point is that the experience in China (the land of rampant counterfeits) can not be projected beyond its borders.
> What you say does not _at all_ hold true for most of the rest of the world.


Of course I'm going to talk of China, after all I live here. I expect you see how things are in the USA(I assume HP, CA is in the USA), which again does not _at all_ hold true for the rest of the world. 

There are many exclusive luxury brands which are almost never even heard of here, e.g. Kiton, Canali and Oxxford. Which for me still hold a certain amount of exclusivity and prestige.

I expect many of the lower line 'imported' genuine Z Zegna suits and jackets one sees in the USA and Europe, will be made and *glued* in China and other asian countries.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

MikeDT said:


> Of course I'm going to talk of China, after all I live here. I expect you see how things are in the USA(I assume HP, CA is in the USA), which again does not _at all_ hold true for the rest of the world.
> 
> There are many exclusive luxury brands which are almost never even heard of here, e.g. Kiton, Canali and Oxxford. Which for me still hold a certain amount of exclusivity and prestige.
> 
> I expect many of the lower line 'imported' genuine Z Zegna suits and jackets one sees in the USA and Europe, will be made and *glued* in China and other asian countries.


I am afraid you are talking in circles now. First you appear to be extrapolating your China-centric view upon the entire world, then you switch to the tack that "many lower line suits may be made in China." 
The former is invalid and the latter is unrelated.

Zegna is not a "designer" label, nor is it one whose appeal has been diluted (in _most _of the world) by a flood of low-line and licensed merchandise, knock-offs and counterfeits. Your supposition that what you see in China extends to the world is absolutely flawed.

And please withhold your presumptions about my personal experience of the world.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

^^^^^^^^

So we'll just have to agree to differ then, fair enough. 

Just to repeat what BespokeMex wrote about Zegna earlier..
"So I guess not every Zegna is the same. Also, every designer and manufacturer who has more than one line, showcases their top-of-the-line clothes, and then lets the Chinese pick up the slack with the same tag, and unfortunately, price."
....true.


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## clintonf (Apr 2, 2007)

Without wishing to get into any "i-fight", has anyone got any photographic examples of a made in china Zegna suit?

As far as I've have researched (I used to absolutely love Zegna, so I spent a fair bit of time looking into them), I've seen _authentic_ Zegna made in:

Switzerland
Italy
Mexico (Z-Zegna)
Spain (Notably shirts)

I cannot say that I've seen Zegna suits made anywhere else. So, if anyone can provide evidence of other countries of manufacture, I would be grateful.

Thanks

Clint


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

^^^^^^

Well Checkerboard 13 and I obviously have differing opinons of this brand. Anyway the subject is closed as far as I'm concerned.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

As far as I know
Zegna Couture is full-canvassed with considerable amounts of hand-work.
Ermenegildo Zegna (Zegna mainline) is full-canvassed with a fair amount of hand-work.
Z Zegna is a diffusion line and is fused. 

There is also Zegna su-misura which is the MTM line and it is full-canvassed and made in Switzerland. I believe these suits are made to a higher standard than the Zegna mainline but not at the level of Couture.

Good list clintonf. I would also add Turkey because that's where most of the Zegna mainline dress shirts are being made now but they are still manufacturing some in Italy.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Z-Zegna suit:

Hang tag front:









Hang tag reverse:









(Made In Italy)

Unlike some designer labels, Zegna does not have an extensive depth of lower lines and licensed merchandise. Also unlike most designer labels, Zegna is an actual manufacturer. They produce their own clothing, as well as doing contract work for some of the designer labels.

As a comparison, consider Ralph Lauren. The further down the line one goes, the further one gets from anything actually designed or produced by R-L. Lauren Ralph Lauren, for instance, is only a licensee of Ralph Lauren, sharing nomore than the name, with production indeed allocated to various third-world manufacturers.
Yet contrary to what one might imagine, Ralph Lauren has managed to maintain a strong appeal for its top-line merchandise. Purple Label is widely regarded as high quality, and is quite sought after. (And incidentally, I believe some Purple Label may be produced by Zegna.)

Then there are those "Designers" whose cachet _is _truly diluted by a flood of branded merchandise, trading on a name or logo. They are not manufacturers, nor are the bulk of the items _legitimately _carrying their name of any particular quality (and there is often a flood of counterfeit merchandise on the market, taking advantage of the "name value.")

Zegna is not in this latter category, despite what one might observe in China. China is its own (huge) microcosm, where counterfeiting and brand and logo thievery run rampant. Fortunately, these counterfeits have not found their way out of China in mass quantities yet, and even if they do, their existence would not diminish the quality of an actual E-Zegna garment, anyway. 
I can not speak for others, but I purchase the brand not for any perceived cachet, but for quality, cut and fit.


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## clintonf (Apr 2, 2007)

thefancyman said:


> As far as I know
> Zegna Couture is full-canvassed with considerable amounts of hand-work.
> Ermenegildo Zegna (Zegna mainline) is full-canvassed with a fair amount of hand-work.
> Z Zegna is a diffusion line and is fused.
> ...


Thank you for your commentary. Excellent addition to what I've added. I also thank you for the Turkey addition, which I completely forgot about.



Checkerboard 13 said:


> Z-Zegna suit:
> 
> ...Unlike some designer labels, Zegna does not have an extensive depth of lower lines and licensed merchandise. Also unlike most designer labels, Zegna is an actual manufacturer. They produce their own clothing, as well as doing contract work for some of the designer labels.
> 
> ...


I cannot really say any more than my own experience. I fell in love with Zegna many years ago (when I could never hope to afford any of it). Since then, I've purchase over 10 suits, 10's of sportcoats, shirts, ties, socks and even shoes. I'm sure that there are many "better" brands and Zegna has its detractors.

However, the fit of Zegna has proved to be something which does appeal to me. I've got suits and SC's from many other RTW brands and some fit better than others. But Zegna, can fit me "well" fresh out of the wrapping.

I do like your comments about Ralph Lauren. I do not profess to know a great deal about the brand(although, I'm learning). However, the higher end stuff can be very nice.

I'd be interested to see an example of a Zegna made Purple Label item, because as I far I can have researched, I only know of the following brands making RLPL suits and SCs.

Chester Barrie (older maker)
Saint Andrews (SaintAndrea)
Caruso (Raffaele Caruso)

I'm not sure about the shirts and accessories though.

Thanks

Clint


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

clintonf said:


> I'd be interested to see an example of a Zegna made Purple Label item, because as I far I can have researched, I only know of the following brands making RLPL suits and SCs.
> 
> Chester Barrie (older maker)
> Saint Andrews (SaintAndrea)
> ...


I believe you can add Cantarelli to your list.
I, too, would like to see an example of Zegna-made RLPL as I am not entirely certain whether Zegna has been used by RL for the Purple Label line.


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## clintonf (Apr 2, 2007)

Checkerboard 13 said:


> I believe you can add *Cantarelli *to your list.
> I, too, would like to see an example of Zegna-made RLPL as I am not entirely certain whether Zegna has been used by RL for the Purple Label line.


Yet another one that I forgot. Thank you.

However, trying to address the original question, I would suggest that all but the Z-Zegna line are canvassed. Whether they are fully canvassed or semi-canvassed, I cannot say for sure as I still cannot do the pinch test properly!!!

Cheers

Clint


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## Stereojeff (Jul 12, 2004)

I believe Zegna's "Soft" line-up was also fused.

Jeff


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## triklops55 (May 14, 2010)

I don't own a single Zegna suit, but I have an Ermenegildo Zegna sportcoat made in Spain that is fused. It retailed for $1,500, but I got it on sale for much less about eight months ago at Saks.
I don't know if the quality of sportcoats and suits would be different, but if my jacket's an indicator, some of their suits may be fused as well. It's still very beautiful, though.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

How about Ermenegildo Zegna "Traveller" suits? Can anybody enlighten me on these?


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## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

Has Zegna in the past made clothes for other lines? I have never seen it before.

I really like the Ermenegildo Zegna line. I have purchased a few on sale at Saks and Bloomingdales, but I could never find myself justifying a Z Zegna suit.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

ExpertiseInNone said:


> Has Zegna in the past made clothes for other lines? I have never seen it before.


Has and does. It is not something that is advertised. 
Most "designer" clothing is manufactured on contract. The manufacturer's name is never put on the item, but if one knows how to spot the details of various manufacturer's inner labels (with details of fabric, etc.) it is often possible to determine the manufacturer of a given item.


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## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

Well, I buy some pretty _low end_ stuff. I doubt that I would have seen it, think 1818 Brooks Brothers and Blue Label Ralph Lauren. I know that the Brooks Brothers 1818 suits are made by Southwick and Ralph Lauren is produced by a bunch of Italian houses. I just haven't heard of Zegna making suits for any of the other brands.


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## Nick (Jan 16, 2005)

Zegna does make suits for other brands. For example, Tom Ford. https://www.zegna.com/media/press/tf_en.pdf

Traveller is a Zegna fabric range, not a line of clothes. Other examples of commonly seen Zegna fabrics include, High Performance, Trofeo, CashCo, 15 Mil 15.

Remember that Zegna was originally (and remains) a major fabric mill. I think they produce over 2.5 million meters of fabric each year. That's one of the reasons why you see so many suits that people call "Zegna knockoffs." They are suits made with Zegna fabric, but they are not Zegna suits.

My experience of the Zegna suit range is:

1. Zegna Couture (previously called Napoli Couture) is full-canvassed with surprisingly high amounts of hand-work. Made in Padova, Italy.

2. Su-Misura. Is the MTM range. Made in Stabio. Switzerland with some hand-work. I've noticed that you get more hand-work if you buy an expensive fabric like 15 Mil 15 or cashmere.

3. Ermenegildo Zegna is full-canvassed with some hand-work. Made in Novara, Italy and sometimes other places like Stabio, Barcelona, Mexico City.

4. Z Zegna targets younger "fashion forward" market and sportsware. Usually fused.

BTW, from talking to a senior guy at Zegna, they are aware of concerns that the brand has become too widely available. My sense is that they are trying to address this via quality control and limiting the range available outside the company-owned stores. For example, in Australia they have effectively shut down the MTM program in all locations except the Zegna-owned shops (previously you could go to a Zenga boutique within a department store like David Jones).


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

The fact that Zegna call a men's range "Couture" is simply hilarious.

There's a French joke that goes: what is the difference between _un tailleur_ (tailor) and _un couturier_ (dressmaker). The answer is that _un tailleur_ dresses men but undresses women, whereas _un couturier_ dresses women and undresses men.

So Zegna Couture really means they are dress makers. Frilly frocks for blokes!


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Nick said:


> BTW, from talking to a senior guy at Zegna, they are aware of concerns that the brand has become too widely available.


Maybe he should tell his Shanghai HQ that. Reducing the Chinese advertising budget would help for a start. Every airline glossy seat-back magazine is full of expensive Zegna adverts, along with RL, Hermes, Gucci and Amway!. These organisations must be the ad-agency's best customers. And I wonder why it has such a popular image in China, and has so many fakes.


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

ExpertiseInNone said:


> I just haven't heard of Zegna making suits for any of the other brands.


Zegna has made suits for several brands under the PRR (Pinault-Printemps-Redoute) umbrella including Gucci and Yves Saint Laurent. Zegna also manufactures suits for Tom Ford former Gucci head designer but is no longer affiliated with PRR.


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## meister (Oct 29, 2005)

I have a Trionfo from 5 or so years ago I thrifted which my tailor tells me is fully canvassed


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

What labels should a Zegna suit have, please?


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## clintonf (Apr 2, 2007)

Chouan said:


> What labels should a Zegna suit have, please?


Have a look at below. It may help you.

https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=63972

Cheers

Clint


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