# NASCAR race spectator's attire



## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

I went to my first NASCAR race this weekend. If you have never gone to one of these races or look down on people who go, you are making a big mistake. The race was fun. The atmosphere and people were great.

Now to the male attire. Acceptable dress is no shirt and tattoos. Average dress is a T-shirt with pictures of racing related something on it. Over dressed is a shirt with a collar. Racing related baseball hats or cowboy straw hats are great. 

Ear plugs are reguired if you want to hear any sooner than an hour after the race is over. Chewing tobacco is fine and it is best if you spit it in a cup like the guy next to me did in his empty lemonade cup all evening.

Don't get the wrong idea. I will be at the races next year but without my polo shirt, linen shorts, college baseball cap and sandals.


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## SkySov (Mar 17, 2008)

Why do people dress up for horse races but not car races?


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## videocrew (Jun 25, 2007)

Tom Wolfe says that he started wearing his iconic white suit because when he was dispatched to North Carolina to report on the newly-begun stock car racing scene he wore a green tweed suit, thinking that this is what one would wear to a stock car race. Upon seeing how ludicrously out-of-place he looked, he decided to start wearing white and never to try to blend in again.


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## Jackdaws (May 28, 2008)

*Oh, yeah...*

I recently got complementary VIP tickets to attend the Coke Zero 400 in Daytona Beach. While the air conditioned Coke Zero Tent was fantastic--gourmet food, open bar, driver and band appearances, etc.--the race seats were high up on Sprint Tower. No AC. Standard dress was race shirts and jeans or cargos. We had a great time, but I was sure the only guy there wearing chinos and white bucks!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I attended my first NASCAR race in the mid-60's and loved it. In that first race I watched Richard Petty smoke the field in his Plymouth and take the win over Ned Jarrett in his Ford. Been a fan ever since.

Over the years I got to meet a few of the drivers off the track and found most of them to be real gentlemen. Maybe not AAAC guys, but gentlemen nonetheless. They didn't come any nicer than the late Bobby Hamilton, and Morgan Shepherd is a class act as is Kyle Petty. 

And you wouldn't know it from watching some of his fans, but Dale Earnhardt Jr. is a real stand up guy. A little story that most people are unaware of. The accident that killed Dale Sr. began when his car made contact with Sterling Marlin's car at nearly 200 mph. Sterling continued on while Dale Sr. veered to the right into the retaining wall, killing him instantly.

Over the next few days death threats began coming in for Marlin. He was provided security but it was still a scary situation. At the next race the following week Dale Jr. unexpectedly showed up at the door of Marlin's motorhome parked in the infield of the track asking Sterling's wife if she had made any breakfast. She had, and Dale Jr. sat down and had breakfast with the Marlins for everyone to see. Only a class act would do that.

Cruiser


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

At least you didn't wear seersucker and/or a bowtie! This thread may have read "Got my ass kicked at Nascar today"


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

videocrew said:


> Tom Wolfe says that he started wearing his iconic white suit because when he was dispatched to North Carolina to report on the newly-begun stock car racing scene he wore a green tweed suit, thinking that this is what one would wear to a stock car race. Upon seeing how ludicrously out-of-place he looked, he decided to start wearing white and never to try to blend in again.


I wonder where he got that idea. At one time in pro level auto racing in the U.S. green was considered an unlucky color.

Probably the first green cars seen at Indy where when the Cooper and then the Lotus cars raced there as green was the auto racing color for England - and silver for Germany, red for Italy, light blue for France, and white with a blue stripe for the U.S. At one time in F1 racing those color schemes were pretty much followed. Now all big time auto racing is so expensive that the cars are painted to represent the sponser.

Back in the day in the U.S., eating peanuts in the pits was also considered unlucky and women were not allowed in the pits. Now a few women are driving. At Nashville last night in Indy cars Danca finished 5th and probably would have been 3rd if the rain had held off a bit longer and Ana Beatriz from Brasil won the Indy Lights support race.

Cheers, Jim.


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

What kind of dress do you expect at a " good ole boys " auto race. NASCAR is country , 
down home. If you want more sophistacation than attend a F1 are sports car race.
Take a look at the cars being raced they only turn left and are not that well engineered.

The answer to why people don't dress up for car races is it depends on what type of car race. 
Having been a member of several European car clubs , an example is the Porsche car club 
the members do dress OK and usually there is a special Porsche tent at the races.
Members of the BMW , Mercedes , and Jaguar clubs are no different when attending sports car races.

Spectators at F1 and sports car races are very different from the the "good ole boys " that
attend NASCAR races. Like shopping at Neiman Marcus or shopping at Walmart.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

silverporsche said:


> Take a look at the cars being raced they only turn left and are not that well engineered.


But there is at least "racing" going on on the track. No less an expert than Juan Pablo Montoya, (winner of the Italian Grand Prix, Indianapolis 500, 24 Hours of Daytona, and a CART Championship) said that he did more racing in a single NASCAR race than in an entire season of F1.

I guess it depends on whether one goes to the track to see racing or to stand around looking at the other men's clothes. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

This is a clothing site. As for as comparing NASCAR to FI , Toyota spent more money trying to develop a car in one year than all the NARCAR cars put together. Including putting together a racing season. Over $600,000 !

From a clothing stand point comparing NASCAR to F1 is much like comparing a pair of 
Johnson & Murphy shoes to a pair of John Lobb shoes.
There are good drivers in NASCAR , it is just the cars are poorly developed. 

One can do both if one chooses , look at clothing and look at the race. After all the cars
are racing on an oval track. The origin of NASCAR 
is whiskey running. How would you expect the spectators to dress ?
Country , down home , again Walmart or Sears certainly not Neiman Marcus and Sak's.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

silverporsche said:


> What kind of dress do you expect at a " good ole boys " auto race. NASCAR is country ,
> down home. If you want more sophistacation than attend a F1 are sports car race.
> Take a look at the cars being raced they only turn left and are not that well engineered.
> 
> ...


Just a bit pretentious, don't you think?


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

I've never actually been to a NASCAR event... but when I read the title of this thread, I instantly thought of someone wearing a mullet, cut-off jeans and a tank-top.


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## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

omairp said:


> I've never actually been to a NASCAR event... but when I read the title of this thread, I instantly thought of someone wearing a mullet, cut-off jeans and a tank-top.


You gotta problem with that?

Buzz


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## dwebber18 (Jun 5, 2008)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> I wonder where he got that idea. At one time in pro level auto racing in the U.S. green was considered an unlucky color.
> 
> Probably the first green cars seen at Indy where when the Cooper and then the Lotus cars raced there as green was the auto racing color for England - and silver for Germany, red for Italy, light blue for France, and white with a blue stripe for the U.S. At one time in F1 racing those color schemes were pretty much followed. Now all big time auto racing is so expensive that the cars are painted to represent the sponser.
> 
> ...


And being a MINI Cooper owner myself I say hooray for British Racing Green! I also, went to college in Bristol, and for all 4 years we as a baseball team had to work the gates checking coolers and bags. It is definitely a different experience. As for the tobacco, you have to use a gatorade bottle so you don't spill your spit and you can't use a coke bottle cause you might take a swig forgetting its not coke. Or atleast thats what my team mates from that area told me was their normal practice. I would say to anyone who hasn't been go, and go see a F1 race and Le Mans if you can, they are all great fun for many reasons.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

silverporsche said:


> As for as comparing NASCAR to FI , Toyota spent more money trying to develop a car in one year than all the NARCAR cars put together.


Of course, F1 is far more expensive than NASCAR Sprint Cup, and that's exactly what makes Sprint Cup a more competitive, exciting series.

There are only 22 or so drivers in F1 and the cars are so steeped in advanced technology that one might as well go watch a bunch of computers race. Most races end up with 3-4 dominant cars and they run around in single file for the most part. There will be more passes for position made in one lap at Talledega than in an entire F1 race.

As Montoya said, miss your set-up at an F1 race and you finish 5th. Miss it in Sprint Cup and you are 25th if you are lucky.

To me it's all about competition and excitement on the track, not how much money is spent on advanced technology on the cars. Just ask former F1 champion Jacques Villeneuve how difficult NASCAR is. Villeneuve struggled big time in NASCAR before finally losing his ride after failing to qualify for this year's Daytona 500.

Not many open wheeled drivers have found success in the more physical beating and banging that goes on in NASCAR. Going 200+ mph is one thing, doing it surrounded by a dozen or more cars nose to tail and door to door is something the F1 driver doesn't know.

https://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=talladegagl0.jpg

https://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20080223232109990004ck3.jpg

But you are correct. I have no doubt that F1 fans dress better than NASCAR fans, and if that's important to you when you are attending a race then F1 would likely be more enjoyable despite how boring the "action" is on the track. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Roikins (Mar 22, 2007)

Actually, I love watching F1, especially when it rains, since they still race even if it rains. Of course, if I want to watch truly competitive racing with skilled drivers that can turn left and right, I go for ALMS racing.

The only experience I've had with NASCAR people was going to the F1 race at Indy a few years ago. A ton of guys with NASCAR tank tops and stickers on their pick-up trucks sat around guzzling beer in the track's infield. When one of the F1 drivers was asked to say a few words in his native language, one of the drunk NASCAR-ians tossed his can of Bud at one of the Jumbotron screens and yelled, "SPEAK ENGLISH!" I decided that I would only go to F1 races outside of the US after that.


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

When I started this thread I was just having fun with the stereotypes about dress and the people who attend. 

The fact is that NASCAR races are a lot of fun and exciting to watch. The result for me was that I became interested in seeing all types of car racing. I am sure that my wife and I will see Indy cars and F1 sooner than later. We might even go to a demolition derby. 

For what it’s worth, I have been to all sorts of horse races--Thoroughbred, Standard bred (harness racing), Ascot and British cross country jumping. In my view car racing is more exciting during the actual race. The spectacle and attire of each event has its own unique quality.


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Of course, F1 is far more expensive than NASCAR Sprint Cup, and that's exactly what makes Sprint Cup a more competitive, exciting series.
> 
> There are only 22 or so drivers in F1 and the cars are so steeped in advanced technology that one might as well go watch a bunch of computers race. Most races end up with 3-4 dominant cars and they run around in single file for the most part. There will be more passes for position made in one lap at Talledega than in an entire F1 race.
> 
> ...


There is only one driver in the world that can be called world champion. The winning driver 
in F1 ! 
How many NASCAR drivers have won a single F1 race ? Hopped-up Fords and Chevy's may be some peoples idea of an entertaining motor car race. You are correct F1 cars are very well developed , so is a Kiton suit , or a pair of Edward Green shoes.

Why bore oneself with technology , construction , evolution ,etc. why not wear Johnson & Murphy more action. F1 is not for everyone nor is Turnbull & Astor or Borelli.
How one dress can determine who one is. So can the car one drives are the events one attends.
F1 may not be for everyone , can't the same case be made for excellent men's clothing ?


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

silverporsche said:


> .....How one dress can determine who one is. So can the car one drives are the events one attends.


I disagree with you. How one dresses can determine who others think one is. Likewise for the car one drives.


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

gng8 said:


> I disagree with you. How one dresses can determine who others think one is. Likewise for the car one drives.


Yes and no. One dresses well generally to impress others. To sometimes separate ones self
from the masses. Why would someone pay $200,000 for a car ?, it makes a statement , or 
$40,000 for a watch ?

Didn't the Caesars wear purple ?, doesn't the queen wear a crown ? We on Ask Andy wear
Attolini , Brioni or Lattanzi. Any difference ?
Road and Track wrote " It is not the S series Mercedes one dislike , but the person driving it " Are not people with impressive things treated different ? 
Does not having those " things " make most of us feel different ?

As a nation we have the most powerful military and the richest economy. Are nations any
different from people since people are nations. 
How one dresses generally determines how one feels about ones self.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Some of you guys are missing the point--even if you could safely dress up for a NASCAR event, you wouldn't want to risk even your thrift shop attire. The air is filled with exhaust fumes, rubber particles and smoke. The seats are filled with spilled beer and fried chicken parts. You don't want to know what's in the aisles.
I know guys knocking down in excess of 200K who go to these things looking like they just left the shelter. Kind of like the women who do mud wrestling (another popular Southern sport). They may get down and dirty, but some of them fix up real nice.
We're talking appropriate attire here.


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## spectre (May 12, 2007)

silverporsche said:


> Yes and no. One dresses well generally to impress others. To sometimes separate ones self
> from the masses. Why would someone pay $200,000 for a car ?, it makes a statement , or
> $40,000 for a watch ?
> 
> ...


Why do you feel the need to impress other people with expensive things? Do you feel they are the measure of a person's worth? 
I dress only for my own enjoyment.
"most powerful military and the richest economy". You sure about that?


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

silverporsche said:


> How one dresses generally determines how one feels about ones self.


You speak for yourself here. Some of us probably feel best about ourselves buck naked or crawling through the briars and bushes in 30 year old clothes. And I am generally among the better dressed at funerals which remind me mostly of my own mortality. Nothing uplifting about that.

I'd say where you are, what you are doing, who you are with generally has a much greater impact on how one feels about one's self than how one dresses. I assume you are subject to the typical ups and downs of life and while fine clothes may blunt the impact a bit I'll take old friends, an old dog and a nice glass of something in front of the fire anytime.


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## Victor123 (Jun 18, 2008)

gng8 said:


> I went to my first NASCAR race this weekend. If you have never gone to one of these races or look down on people who go, you are making a big mistake. The race was fun. The atmosphere and people were great.
> 
> Now to the male attire. Acceptable dress is no shirt and tattoos. Average dress is a T-shirt with pictures of racing related something on it. Over dressed is a shirt with a collar. Racing related baseball hats or cowboy straw hats are great.
> 
> ...


I think flannel shirts and anything with jesus on it is also acceptable.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

cdavant said:


> Some of us probably feel best about ourselves buck naked or crawling through the briars and bushes in 30 year old clothes.


Dang, scared me there for a second. I thought you said buck naked "and" crawling through the briars, then I saw that you said "or". As much as I agree with you, I'm not sure how good I would feel about myself crawling through those briars buck naked. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Been there. Done that. Seemed fine at the time, but the morning after was a *****.


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

spectre said:


> Why do you feel the need to impress other people with expensive things? Do you feel they are the measure of a person's worth?
> I dress only for my own enjoyment.
> "
> The most powerful military and the richest economy". You sure about that?


The U.S. GNP is greater than Japan and The EU put together. No nation comes close to 
the American Military budget. America is a super power ! Who else is ?

Gentleman you must read a little I used the word "general " I dd not refer to myself.
Clothing defines people, has for a thousand years. HOW TO DRESS IS LEARNED.
In America few Americans can afford a Kiton suit. Few Americans can afford a Porsche 
Turbo. Those who purchase such items set themselves apart from others who don't have the means.

Why than would one pay $10,000,000 for a home ? $ 145,000 for a watch. ? and 
$2,000,000 for a yacht ? For the same reason. 
Why are there private clubs ?

On this website the issue is men's clothing, up market men's clothing. Men who wish to
in most cases set themselves apart from the unwashed masses. Where else can one discuss Brioni suits , a suit 80% of Americans cannot afford. Except possibly used on Ebay.
Why would one pay $200,000 for an Aston Martin that runs only some of the time at great expense ? Why would one pay $6000 for a Rolex when a Timex might keep better time ?

Image , image is everything. we all know that. Lets not pretend.


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## spectre (May 12, 2007)

Image is a shallow goal, which relies on vulgar displays of ostentation.
There are more important things to strive for like decency, respect, education and helping others. 
Try fighting another full-scale war and see how far your armed forces stretch.
And tell that GNP stuff to the millions of US homeowners who are selling their homes for less than the mortgage they owe.
I don't expect the average American to know much about China (or any other country for that matter) but they have quite a large and well equipped army I believe and their balance of payments is enviable.

Money and celebrity appear to be the only goals worth striving for in America.

signed goldbugatti


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

spectre said:


> Image is a shallow goal, which relies on vulgar displays of ostentation.
> There are more important things to strive for like decency, respect, education and helping others.
> Try fighting another full-scale war and see how far your armed forces stretch.
> And tell that GNP stuff to the millions of US homeowners who are selling their homes for less than the mortgage they owe.
> ...


Finally on this subject. Why should Americans know about China , we have a fleet of super carriers, to protect us and Australia , no one else can afford a super carrier. I have never known anyone to deposit decency , and respect in a bank or buy an Oxxford suit with either.

Like it or not image is everything. I might add those who are losing their homes made poor decisions. There are consequences for making poor decisions. There are millions of American
home owners that does does not have that problem , they made sound decisions.

Vulgar , shallow , I will add greed , but it has made American what most countries and peoples of the world envy. The richest and militarily the most powerful country in the history of the world !!


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## spectre (May 12, 2007)

In your view - others see it differently, but few of you can find these countries on a map let alone care what they think.
This is just light-hearted forum chat but there is a scary chauvanism rooted in the American psyche.


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## SkySov (Mar 17, 2008)

silverporsche said:


> Like it or not image is everything.* I might add those who are losing their homes made poor decisions. There are consequences for making poor decisions.* There are millions of American
> home owners that does does not have that problem , they made sound decisions.


Though you are sounding like a jerk that much is true. Some people applied for mortgages, lied about how much they made and could afford to pay, and now they are screwed. Live and learn. Meanwhile the rain forest is being bulldozed from all the pre-approved credit offers people get daily (may be an exaggeration). I think there are more important things than Oxxford suits though. And I don't think the issue with NASCAR attendants is how they dress but rather their content with ignorance and hatred of things different. One of which that probably bothers most here is different ways of dress. Read the thread on dressing well means you're gay to certain people. Of course no stereotype is true for all of any group, but they don't appear to share the same values of those trying to progress society. Like education or tolerance.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

gng8 said:


> Chewing tobacco is fine and it is best if you spit it in a cup like the guy next to me did in his empty lemonade cup all evening.


If there is such a thing, chewing marijuana is immeasurably finer than chewing tobacco.

If only the USA Government would smarten up and legalize marijuana for those who are 21 and older.

I would love to smoke, chew and consume marijuana anyway that it can be consumed. Any kind of marijuana consumption is far healthier (and quite healthy overall as long as it is done in moderation and responsibly, just like red wine) than any kind of tobacco consumption.

Chewing marijuana and spitting it out in a cup, Gatorade bottle, etcetera like chewing tobacco would make me go to NASCAR and other car races and have loads of fun.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

silverporsche said:


> Few Americans can afford a Porsche
> Turbo. Those who purchase such items set themselves apart from others who don't have the means.


Actually I suspect that more people can afford such things than you realize, they just choose to not buy them. And many who do buy them can't afford them.

Take me for instance. I'm not a wealthy man and I'm now retired. At the same time I don't owe a penny to anyone and drive a 2007 Nissan Altima that I paid cash for. If I wanted a Porsche Turbo I could go buy one tomorrow and pay cash for it too without impacting my retirement life one iota. Hell, I could buy two and have a matched set. Cabriolets even.

My point is that some of us aren't into this ostentatious display of "things" that seems to drive you, but just because we don't have it doesn't mean we couldn't. Warren Buffett, a man who's net worth exceeds that of many nations, still lives in the same modest home he bought 40 years ago, and yet he has certainly set himself apart. You are being blinded by the glitter my friend.

Cruiser


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

silverporsche, aren't you the one who wears fake watches? Hmm, what was that about image again? :icon_smile_big:


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Actually I suspect that more people can afford such things than you realize, they just choose to not buy them. And many who do buy them can't afford them.


The most popular vehicle in the USA with people who have incomes over $1 million? The Ford F-150 pickup truck. That's why the expensive models with leather seats sell relatively well. They are independent contractors and foreman. They make a lot of money because they work a lot.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

There has been a bunch of talk about adding a denim section to this forum. Perhaps we should add a section for the few members (without naming names) who are stuck up, believe image is everything and that the most important things to life are Brioni/Kiton suits, and exotic sports cars; while the rest of us plebeians should be fortunate enough to even exist.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

SkySov said:


> Why do people dress up for horse races but not car races?


I have only been to one horse race at Hollywood Park - which is not in Hollywood, but in Inglewood, CA. For the most part, people were not well dressed. I expect that the people who have the means to own a race horse dress well just as the people who have the means to own a high level auto race team do too.

I suggest that if gambling was eliminated from horse racing that it would be considerably less popular.

Cheers, Jim.


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## SkySov (Mar 17, 2008)

Probably. Gambling is fun. But the triple crown races are partly known for how people dress up. Is there a NASCAR race, like whatever the championship is, where it's tradition to at least put on a shirt with buttons?


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

SkySov said:


> Probably. Gambling is fun. But the triple crown races are partly known for how people dress up. Is there a NASCAR race, like whatever the championship is, where it's tradition to at least put on a shirt with buttons?


LOL - Well, I don't follow NASCAR much as their races are a bit long for my taste, but with the very large crowds they get at all of their many races I expect you might find a few shirts with buttons.

Cheers, Jim.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

brokencycle said:


> There has been a bunch of talk about adding a denim section to this forum. Perhaps we should add a section for the few members (without naming names) who are stuck up, believe image is everything and that the most important things to life are Brioni/Kiton suits, and exotic sports cars; while the rest of us plebeians should be fortunate enough to even exist.


Sounds like a much better idea than a denim section to me.

In view of this thread I almost hate to admit it, but I once owned a silver Porsche. It was a 1962 that I bought in 1965. That was back when Porsches were owned by car enthusiasts - I pretty much lost interest in them when they became a status symbol although at the time I sold Porsche accessories and manufactured some - mostly exhaust systems.

Cheers, Jim.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> But there is at least "racing" going on on the track. No less an expert than Juan Pablo Montoya, (winner of the Italian Grand Prix, Indianapolis 500, 24 Hours of Daytona, and a CART Championship) said that he did more racing in a single NASCAR race than in an entire season of F1.
> 
> I guess it depends on whether one goes to the track to see racing or to stand around looking at the other men's clothes. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Cruiser


There is probably more passing in a single NASCAR race then there is all season in F1. Heck, there might be more passing in a single lap in NASCAR. In F1 the race is pretty much over after the first couple of corners and I am surprised they have not had serious injuries or worse as a result of those silly standing starts. I remember once when Gurney's car, starting near the front at Riverside in an early Pro Sports Car race with a standing start, stalled and was hit from behind which resulted in a trip to the hospital.

Driving those tin tops might not be as easy as some folks think. Montoya is doing fair. I think you mentioned in another post that Jacque V., former F1 driver and World Chamion, lost his ride as has Dario F. Sam Hornish is not doing well and Paul Tracy, winner of 30 CART and CC races tried it and failed, and there are a few others who could not make the transition.

Your last sentence really sums it up. Do you want to see a fashion show and a parade of fast cars or see real racing where cars actually pass each other.

I pretty much lost what little interest I had in F1 a few years ago when only six cars ran the road course at Indy and the rest pulled off the track because the last turn (turn 1 if one drives Indy the proper direction) was too dangerous for the tires they had. As Donald Davidson said, 'That turn has been there since 1911'.

Cheers, Jim.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

silverporsche said:


> Take a look at the cars being raced they only turn left and are not that well engineered.


One of your assertions is wrong and I believe both are wrong.

NASCAR has two road races a year and they started road racing back in 1960's at Riverside Raceway.

The engines of the 'hopped up Fords and Chevys' as you put it are granted old technology. They run on gasoline, have carburetors, and the cam is in the block. I think there is considerable technology involved in getting such an engine to put out as much power as they do and live for 500 miles. Some of the folks running mid pack or worse would probably enjoy having as much technology as the usual front runners have.

The rest of the car is bult according to NASCAR specs for the Car Of Tomorrow (guess that should be the Car Of Today by now). Those specs took a few years of engineering time including wind tunnel testing.

If they ran pupose built OHC engines with fuel injection as in F1, they might turn 19,000 RPM, but would the racing be any better if the valves opened and closed any faster - I don't think so.

BTW, you forgot that Dodge and Toyota also run in NASCAR.

Jim. (who is starting to feel that he is at Track Forum instead of Ask Andy).


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## spectre (May 12, 2007)

I write Formula One for a living and I can guarantee silverporsche would love it. Lots of rich people with expensive things impressing no-one but each other.
But the core - the drivers - are terrific down-to-earth guys who generally drive small hot hatches, apart from a couple who may be contracted by Ferrari to drive Maseratis.
I know for a fact Aussie Mark Webber had a BMW M5 and swapped it in disgust for a turbo diesel Renault hatch because he was forever pulling into gas stations to fill the thing up and Nico Rosberg is giving up his Audi RS4 for a baby Fiat 500 because it's more practical.
The drivers are obviously hugely wealthy but I can't think of any who live ostentatious lifestyles.
Forget about them though SP - there's always Renault F1 boss Flavio Briatore, the world's most vulgar man. He's your guy.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

SkySov said:


> Is there a NASCAR race, like whatever the championship is, where it's tradition to at least put on a shirt with buttons?


Reigning NASCAR Sprint Cup Champion Carl Edwards. Not exactly buttons but studs should be acceptable. Note also the pocket square. :icon_smile_big:

https://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=610xxl9.jpg

Cruiser


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> Actually I suspect that more people can afford such things than you realize, they just choose to not buy them. And many who do buy them can't afford them.
> 
> Take me for instance. I'm not a wealthy man and I'm now retired. At the same time I don't owe a penny to anyone and drive a 2007 Nissan Altima that I paid cash for. If I wanted a Porsche Turbo I could go buy one tomorrow and pay cash for it too without impacting my retirement life one iota. Hell, I could buy two and have a matched set. Cabriolets even.
> 
> ...


I have a friend who is a sports car enthusiast. He owns one or two old two-seaters, but he likes to gawk at the fancy ones from time to time.

He went to a dealership that sold high end sports cars. He was checking out a Ferrari, and the salesman came up to him and said, "You can take that car home today!.

My friend said that he really liked the car, but there was no way he could afford it. The salesman said, "Actually, I ran your credit. You have excellent credit, sir. Trust me, you can afford this car."

My friend simply replied, "Yes, the reason I have excellent credit is that I don't go around purchasing things that I can't afford.

I am constantly amazed that people mistake the trappings of weath as proof of wealth.


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## Runfellow (Jun 9, 2008)

Aaron in Allentown said:


> My friend simply replied, "Yes, the reason I have excellent credit is that I don't go around purchasing things that I can't afford.


That's just about one of the smartest things ever said. Basically sums life up.

Anyway, back to the point, the original poster was talking about NASCAR, not status symbols. My personal whine about the sport is that these people will come out to watch a 200+ lap race around an oval, but then they'll whine when they go to track meet and the next race is over 400M. Oh well.

That, and the fact that NASCAR drivers are NOT athletes.

But you gotta agree, anything more than a t-shirt and shorts and you're overdressed. Dressing is all about comfort and feeling good, but sometimes you just have to put on an "I'm With Stupid" shirt and not give a crap if your boss might be there too.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

A little photo comparison.

Horse racing crowd photos...






























NASCAR crowd photos...






























Either way... you gotta admit it's entertainment. :icon_smile_big:


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

Aaron in Allentown said:


> I have a friend who is a sports car enthusiast. He owns one or two old two-seaters, but he likes to gawk at the fancy ones from time to time.
> 
> He went to a dealership that sold high end sports cars. He was checking out a Ferrari, and the salesman came up to him and said, "You can take that car home today!.
> 
> ...


Those who bother to read history , find that dress has determined one's worth for over 10,000 years. What colors did the Caesars wear ? doing the middle ages a sign of wealth was clothing , the Renaissance was no different. The industrial age did not change that. 
Even with new technology and the sewing machine.

For centuries it was the horse and saddle today the motor car. F1 is the symbol of the state of the technological advancement of the motor car. It is not for everyone.
There is NASCAR it is not for everyone.
I would also include Borrelli , John Lobb and Kiton they are not for everyone.

There was a TV series several years ago called the Beverly Hillbillies , They were millionaires but still ate grits. 
" Fashion passes style remains " Coca Channel. NASCAR is relatively new compared to F1.
NASCAR is southern "grits " No one would compare a Chevy with a Ferrari.
Would one compare a pair of Johnson & Murphy with a pair of John Lobb ?
I hope you get my point.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Runfellow said:


> That, and the fact that NASCAR drivers are NOT athletes.


Very big misconception. Here is a very good article on the athleticism of NASCAR drivers.

https://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/4243400/

In NASCAR's earlier years, especially the 1950s and 1960s, drivers were not considered very athletic, and I would agree with that assessment.

Today, however, times have changed and now it's a different story. This generation of stock car racers compares very favorably with elite athletes in other sports.

These drivers may not run a 4.5 in the 40-yard dash or be able to hit 50 home runs in a baseball season, but could a baseball player or a football player last 500 miles in a race car?

The strength, agility and endurance demonstrated by stock car drivers in a competitive context are without question of exceptional quality and prove their athleticism.


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

silverporsche said:


> Those who bother to read history , find that dress has determined one's worth for over 10,000 years. What colors did the Caesars wear ? doing the middle ages a sign of wealth was clothing , the Renaissance was no different. The industrial age did not change that.
> Even with new technology and the sewing machine.
> 
> For centuries it was the horse and saddle today the motor car. F1 is the symbol of the state of the technological advancement of the motor car. It is not for everyone.
> ...


Oh, I get it.

I just don't think that the point that you're actually making is the point you _think_ you're making.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

While there were auto races in Europe after WW ll, the F1 series as we know it was started in 1950. Starting in 1951, it was pretty well dominated by the amazing Jaun Fangio. I think it was Moss who said the best driving instruction was to be two car lengths behind Fangio. Granted the racing had roots going back to the racing of the 1930 which were dominated by Auto Union and Mercedes Benz both of which had a lot of support from the German Government.

NASCAR was formed in 1947 by Bill France and it's roots go back to racing at Daytona Beach in the 1930's.

So, NASCAR is not relatively new compared to F1.

Personally, I don't believe that F1 nor any other form of auto racing has had much impact on the design of the modern motor car with the possible exception of the rear view mirror in the 1911 Indy race.

As to it being 'grits', sure, it started in the South, but nationwide the only sport that exceeds NASCAR in TV viewership is the NFL.

In a message above 'mrkleen' debunked your statement about race car drivers not being athletes.

Just about everything you have stated with respect to motor racing is either incorrect or at least open to serious debate.

Perhaps I am a tad dense here, but I don't understand your ongoing comparisons of clothing to auto racing except they have the tone of being elitist. So, No, I don't get your point at all.

Jim.


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

Indeed...

Owning a fancy car does not mean you are wealthy. It just means that you spent a lot of money on a car. Wealthy people purchase such cars with some of their excess cash. Broke people who want everyone to think they are wealthy purchase such vehicles with financing.

Similarly, watching F1 on television does not make you sophisticated, even if you watch it on a giant flat-screen television (that, naturally, you purchased with financing).

As I said, displaying the trappings of wealth does not make you a wealthy person.

Having a lot of money makes you a wealthy person. Some wealthy people choose to buy fancy cars with some of their money, but many are perfectly happy to drive ordinary cars.

If you own an expensive car, but were unable to purchase it with some of the extra money you had sitting around in your trust fund or whatever, and you instead chose to burden yourself with a $900 a month car payment, then you are not wealthy. You just want people to think you're wealthy. Or, maybe you just like fancy cars so much that you're willing to forgo spending money on other things. It could be one or the other. But, if you spend time on an internet forum telling everyone about your fancy car, then it's probably the former.

It's a free country.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

TheWardrobeGirl said:


> At least you didn't wear seersucker and/or a bowtie! This thread may have read "Got my ass kicked at Nascar today"


I was at a race event in seersucker about two weeks back.

No one cared. Got a few people saying silly things like, 'Hey man, I feel like I'm at the office again.' And stray stuff about, 'He's pretty dressed up,' etc. Nothing offensive.

Car racing is pretty boring to me, on screen or in person. It's just an excuse to sit around and BS.


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> While there were auto races in Europe after WW ll, the F1 series as we know it was started in 1950. Starting in 1951, it was pretty well dominated by the amazing Juan Fangio. I think it was Moss who said the best driving instruction was to be two car lengths behind Fangio. Granted the racing had roots going back to the racing of the 1930 which were dominated by Auto Union and Mercedes Benz both of which had a lot of support from the German Government.
> 
> NASCAR was formed in 1947 by Bill France and it's roots go back to racing at Daytona Beach in the 1930's.
> 
> ...


F1 Is an international car race , not an American one. The champion driver of F1 is called World Champion. 
Disk Brakes , radial tires , independent suspension are only a few creation from motor car racing. Jaguar defeated Ferrari at Le Mans because of their new brakes , disk !

Grand Prix or F1 races goes back to 1914 . I never said race car drivers were not athletics.
Fangio raced both F1 and sport cars. 
Sterling Moss never was a world champion. Fangio was 5 times.

We live in a consumer society , we are measured by our wealth. Call it elitist if you wish but that is the value based system we live in.
The finest cars in the world are made in Europe and so is the finest men's clothing.

The Monaco Grand Prix is the height of the F1 season. I wonder how one would compare the cars and dress to NASCAR's Darlington 500 ?
I don't think they drink Cheap American beer and wear t-shirts while attending the Monaco Grand Prix.
My counterpoint !


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## Picolino (Jul 10, 2008)

Aaron in Allentown said:


> If you own an expensive car, but were unable to purchase it with some of the extra money you had sitting around in your trust fund or whatever, and you instead chose to burden yourself with a $900 a month car payment, then you are not wealthy. You just want people to think you're wealthy. Or, maybe you just like fancy cars so much that you're willing to forgo spending money on other things. It could be one or the other. But, if you spend time on an internet forum telling everyone about your fancy car, then it's probably the former.
> 
> It's a free country.


I'm broke as a joke, but I really like my truck and I'm willing to pay for it. Someday soon, I'll buy my '55 MB 300SL (I don't think you can finance those, though) 
Oh, and owning a fancy new car, doesn't make you classy or sophisticated. Around here, the more expensive and newer the car, the bigger the douche who drives it.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

silverporsche said:


> The Monaco Grand Prix is the height of the F1 season. I wonder how one would compare the cars and dress to NASCAR's Darlington 500 ?


Why would you make a direct comparison between the Monaco Grand Prix, which you describe as the "height of the F1 season" with a relatively obscure NASCAR event held at the oldest and smallest (seating 63,000) tracks on the NASCAR circuit. The only reason they still race at Darlington is it's historical place in NASCAR.

Why not compare the crown jewel of F1 with the crown jewel of NASCAR, the Daytona 500? Let me do it for you. In 2006 for example the Daytona 500 had the 6th largest GLOBAL viewing audience, not just U.S. Daytona is a sell out every year with over 200,000 people packing in and attended by Presidents. Wouldn't this be a better comparison to Monaco?

And you pointed out that no NASCAR driver has driven F1. That may be about to change as Kyle Busch has a standing offer from Toyota to begin testing in one of their new F1 cars if he ever wants to make the switch. He has agreed to do some F1 testing later this year in Japan.

Meanwhile, F1 drivers have tried NASCAR with very little success. As was previously pointed out former F1 "WORLD" champion Jacques Villeneuve (not just a run of the mill F1 driver, but a world champion) tried and failed. After he was unable to qualify his car on speed for the 2008 Daytona 500, he attempted to get in by means of the qualifying race. After losing control and spinning out in front of a pack of cars, causing a multi-car accident, he was fired from his ride.

Listen to Juan Pablo Montoya talk about just how difficult NASCAR racing is. In many respects F1 is more about the car than the driver. There are only 20 or so cars in each F1 race and the few dominant ones get out front and stay there as they run single file for most of the race. Although the cars are definitely important, there is a much bigger focus on the driver in NASCAR. Three wide and mere inches apart at almost 200 mph in a turn is not something every race car driver is adept at.

It's one of the reasons so many open wheeled drivers are trying NASCAR. There is this competetive desire to test oneself against the best drivers, not the best cars. Man against man, not technology against technology. Over and over and over during the course of a single race it's more about who is going to lift first or get back on the gas first rather than who will run what fuel mixture. It's a different sport entirely.

Cruiser


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Preu Pummel said:


> I was at a race event in seersucker about two weeks back.
> 
> No one cared. Got a few people saying silly things like, 'Hey man, I feel like I'm at the office again.' And stray stuff about, 'He's pretty dressed up,' etc. Nothing offensive.
> 
> Car racing is pretty boring to me, on screen or in person. It's just an excuse to sit around and BS.


I was just kidding around 

Looks like this thread hit the skids though


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

^^^ Hey now, I made a valiant effort to keep it focused on the sartorial aspects of NASCAR fans...










Just sayin'...:icon_smile_big:


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Grayson said:


> ^^^ Hey now, I made a valiant effort to keep it focused on the sartorial aspects of NASCAR fans...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


HOLY COW!!! Soo...what do you think - Bespoke??


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

silverporsche said:


> I don't think they drink Cheap American beer and wear t-shirts while attending the Monaco Grand Prix.


OK, now that we've had some fun laughing at NASCAR fans, perhaps we should seek out some F1 fans from around the circuit.

I guess this guy's been drinking cheap European beer. But you're right, he ain't wearing a t-shirt like those NASCAR guys.
https://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21969347mk7.gif

Hey guys, we're trying to have a race here. Someone needs to lock up the Dom Pérignon.
https://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=galleryimagemain4311hh4.jpg

And I would love to see a full shot of the gal on the left. That looks like an outfit that would be right at home at Talledega.
https://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=x1xc1.jpg

Cruiser


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Why would you make a direct comparison between the Monaco Grand Prix, which you describe as the "height of the F1 season" with a relatively obscure NASCAR event held at the oldest and smallest (seating 63,000) tracks on the NASCAR circuit. The only reason they still race at Darlington is it's historical place in NASCAR.
> 
> Why not compare the crown jewel of F1 with the crown jewel of NASCAR, the Daytona 500? Let me do it for you. In 2006 for example the Daytona 500 had the 6th largest GLOBAL viewing audience, not just U.S. Daytona is a sell out every year with over 200,000 people packing in and attended by Presidents. Wouldn't this be a better comparison to Monaco?
> 
> ...


Read my post more carefully , I asked the question , how many NASCAR divers have won a single F1 race ? There is an international focus on F1 drivers sir. Drivers such as Michael Schumacher are national as well as international stars. Schumacher was once the highest paid sports performer.

The issue was dress at NASCAR events. You would agree that those attending sport car
and F1 events dress much better than those attending NASCAR events.
As for as attendence there are larger attendance at F1 races especially in Germany and 
Brazil , not to mention Japan.

Nascar is American , "grits " F1 and sport car racing is international ! There is nothing wrong with "grits " It is American. 
F1 divers are more interested in the Indianapolis "500" In the 60's F1 helped bring about a change in Indy from front to mid engine cars.

The issue is still dress , I repeat the question no one in their right mind would attend a F1 
or sport car race dressed in a t-shirt and drinking cheap American beer ! Well let's
just say very few would.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

silverporsche said:


> We live in a consumer society , we are measured by our wealth. Call it elitist if you wish but that is the value based system we live in.


This says more about you than about society.


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## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

omairp said:


> This says more about you than about society.


Are you capable of discussing the subject sir. The subject is not me. Do you have a counterpoint ? The subject is " NASCAR race spectator's attire. "


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## T-Bag (Jun 16, 2008)

I love this statement....



silverporsche said:


> The champion driver of F1 is called World Champion.


Well then it *must* be true, huh? 

I call myself "The World's Sexiest Man", ladies PM me. . . :icon_smile_wink:


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

I would like to see silverporsche respond to Cruiser's post with the pictures of F1 fans.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

silverporsche said:


> Read my post more carefully , I asked the question , how many NASCAR divers have won a single F1 race ? There is an international focus on F1 drivers sir. Drivers such as Michael Schumacher are national as well as international stars. Schumacher was once the highest paid sports performer.
> 
> The issue was dress at NASCAR events. You would agree that those attending sport car
> and F1 events dress much better than those attending NASCAR events.
> ...


It would be rather difficult for a NASCAR driver to win a F1 race as to my knowledge none have ever entered a F1 race! Schumacher, the elder, was once the highest paid racing driver, but I don't know about sports performers, Others know a lot more about pay in the stick and ball sports than I do.

BTW, Schumie was not interested in the Indy 500 because he said it was too dangerous.

Of course F1 is an international sport as the races all take place in different countries. And the points winner for the year is the World Champion because that is what they decided to call him just as we have a World Series for baseball because that is what the baseball folks decided to call it that.

I expect that there are some of the top NASCAR drivers with sufficient practice and a ride in one of the top four cars could do well in F1, but we will probably never know as they seem pretty happy driving tin tops and becoming multi-millionares.

Also, as Cruiser has pointed out the results of Montoya and Jacque V. in NASCAR show that it is a different skill set.

Nigel Mansell did very well in Indy Cars, but those who followed him have not accomplished a lot. The current crop are usually finishing behind a 5 foot 100 lb young woman.

Yes, lets return to clothing, which as I recall started out being about the attire of NASCAR spectators which somehow morphed into F1 and now has sportS car racing included. If you had attended the F1 races that took place on the road course at Indy, you would have seen a lot of Americans dressed in t-shirts and other apparel that indicated their favorite driver or team. A lot of racing, including F1 when it runs in this country, takes place when it is either hot or cold and people dress accordingly. Again, they are there to see an auto race, not a fashion show.

As to 'cheap American beer', that sounds a bit elitist as do your views that a persons worth is determined by his material possessions.

This thread is getting boring even for me, Jim.

Hey, Grayson, thanks so much for getting us back on track. I think I just lost my appetite


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> Hey, Grayson, thanks so much for getting us back on track. I think I just lost my appetite


Nothing brings the conversation back on track like pulling out the family photos from a day at the races! JUST KIDDING!!!


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## SkySov (Mar 17, 2008)

Hahaha. My race car is better than your race car. Why are you debating which race car is better? Who gives a crap they both have the same purpose. To get the sheeple to buy stuff. This post was brought to you by Penzoil.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Grayson said:


> ^^^ Hey now, I made a valiant effort to keep it focused on the sartorial aspects of NASCAR fans...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





TheWardrobeGirl said:


> HOLY COW!!! Soo...what do you think - Bespoke??


Well, that explains the Global shortage of polyester!

PS: WardrobeGirl, given the multiple subjects in the picture, I believe the proper descriptor would be..."HOLY HERD!"


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## SkySov (Mar 17, 2008)

Grayson said:


> ^^^ Hey now, I made a valiant effort to keep it focused on the sartorial aspects of NASCAR fans...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is the "woman" in blue looking at the other one with a bit of jealousy? Like she wishes she had the physique to hold a cup.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

SkySov said:


> Is the "woman" in blue looking at the other one with a bit of jealousy? Like she wishes she had the physique to hold a cup.


Well, she could always flip over, I bet she might be able to hold one in her ass.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

^^^ No, dude. She's jealous 'cuz her friend bogarted that Burger King Crown. They only give out one of those per family these days.

"Have it your way" indeed!


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## tiealign (Nov 16, 2005)

As someone whose attended many f1, nascar, irl/champ car, and a few formula boat races over the years I have to say there isnt really that much of a difference in the attire among the crowds IMO. You do see poorly dressed people without shirts at all of the races but mainly its people dressed in shorts and tshirts (or polos) with hats on. Here are a couple of crowd pics at f1 events and not the glam shots done by the f1 staff for marketing.


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## T-Bag (Jun 16, 2008)

A quick Google Image search of "F1 Crowd" produced this as the #1 image. Not that it really pertains to the discussion, but I thought I'd share.


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

Any Australian will tell you that Foster's is a classy beer, too!


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## tiealign (Nov 16, 2005)

T-Bag said:


> A quick Google Image search of "F1 Crowd" produced this as the #1 image. Not that it really pertains to the discussion, but I thought I'd share.


Not exactly a member of the crowd...LOL


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## T-Bag (Jun 16, 2008)

tiealign said:


> Not exactly a member of the crowd...LOL


I've never been to an F1 race, I've been lucky enough to attend about 7-8 NASCAR races. That picture has me re-thinking all that.....


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## tiealign (Nov 16, 2005)

T-Bag said:


> I've never been to an F1 race, I've been lucky enough to attend about 7-8 NASCAR races. That picture has me re-thinking all that.....


F1 hosts some pretty nice events outside of the races during the race weekend as well as making sure there are lots of paid beautiful women (ie. Grid Girls) in the vip sections of the paddock. If you haven't been to a race you should really go to the race in Montreal next year as its a very nice city and venue IMO. Just don't expect the person sitting next to you to look anything like the fosters girl.


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## fpatton (Apr 28, 2008)

I will be going to the Laguna Seca round of MotoGP (the Formula 1 of motorcycles) this weekend. There is always a good helping of the "umbrella girls" walking around, in addition to fantastic racing.

For the record, I intend to wear a white linen shirt, jeans, and my Stetson fedora. Gotta keep cool, and keep that sun off!

Fred


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Grayson said:


> ^^^ Hey now...


I'm actually crying...
from fear.

Did she just eat the Burger King?


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

fpatton said:


> I will be going to the Laguna Seca round of MotoGP (the Formula 1 of motorcycles) this weekend. There is always a good helping of the "umbrella girls" walking around, in addition to fantastic racing.
> 
> For the record, I intend to wear a white linen shirt, jeans, and my Stetson fedora. Gotta keep cool, and keep that sun off!
> 
> Fred


Whatever the event, it only makes sense to dress for the weather. When I raced there, in an Alfa, there were no guard rails, no permanent buildings, and the pits were on the outside of the track. That was back when the tires were skinny and the drivers not so much so.

I don't know much about bikes, but isn't MotoGP the class that is racing on the redone road course at Indy this year?

Enjoy the races, Jim.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

>> Did she just eat the Burger King?

Perhaps the whole store!


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Picolino said:


> I'm broke as a joke, but I really like my truck and I'm willing to pay for it. Someday soon, I'll buy my '55 MB 300SL (I don't think you can finance those, though)
> .


They are a bit of a truck to drive but my favourite car for it's day. When you are able to buy one, you might have trouble finding one. The built 1328 of them and 30 years ago when I sold mine it was estimated around half that number still existed.

My old car is in the Nethercutt Museum in Sylmar, CA. Admission is free but to see the whole Museum which includes old player pianos and player organs in addition to great cars, requires a reservation for the guided tour.

For anyone in the area who is interested in old cars, it is a nice way to spend a day.

Cheers, Jim.


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## fpatton (Apr 28, 2008)

Jim - Yes this is the same series that will be at Indy later this year. Two American rounds. Woo-hoo!

Considering that Laguna Seca is in Monterey, I'm always amazed how hot and sunny it is there. Long sleeves are a must for me, and I like the fact that linen breathes well. It's become a staple for me at the races. It doesn't look too fussy, especially since my choice of footwear is a pair of Sidi Vertabra motorcycle boots that I wear on the way over there. (Great last on those Sidis, BTW. Wish all my shoes fit like that...)

Fred


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

That area is really lovely country. Some days there is a very heavy fog in the morning (I was always glad I did not do Basic Training at Ft. Ord for the reason), but it usually burns off by midmorning. Oh, I see you live not so far away, so you probably knew that.

Cheers, Jim.


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