# Charvet Shirts



## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

I have 2 Charvet shirts purchased at NM about 2 years ago. They were Close to $400. I am very disappointed in the quality, the fit and the way they have held up. Anybody have any similar experiences or any comments. The shirt tails are too short and the shirts do not press out well after ironing. Any alternatives to the high end shirts. How do the BB golden fleece shirts compare at half the price?


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

I don't have any personal experience with Charvet, but fit is always going to be an issue with RTW shirts. Also, their bespoke shirts may be made differently from their RTW ones--perhaps someone else can chime in on that.

I've had MTM OCBD shirts made for me by Brooks Brothers: terribly inconsistent and unreliable work. $200 sounds high for one of their shirts. 

Have you considered going bespoke, or at least MTM? For under $400, there are a lot of options. Just don't buy a Borrelli . . .


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## the etruscan (Mar 9, 2007)

Tonyp said:


> I have 2 Charvet shirts purchased at NM about 2 years ago. They were Close to $400. I am very disappointed in the quality, the fit and the way they have held up. Anybody have any similar experiences or any comments. The shirt tails are too short and the shirts do not press out well after ironing. Any alternatives to the high end shirts. How do the BB golden fleece shirts compare at half the price?


If you can get to Paris, or get a full set of measurements to Charvet there, you get a shirt that is worlds apart from the shirts I see them selling at NM and Saks.


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

Tonyp said:


> I have 2 Charvet shirts purchased at NM about 2 years ago. They were Close to $400. I am very disappointed in the quality, the fit and the way they have held up. Anybody have any similar experiences or any comments. The shirt tails are too short and the shirts do not press out well after ironing. Any alternatives to the high end shirts. How do the BB golden fleece shirts compare at half the price?


I have several of the Golden Fleece which can often be had for $100-$120 with the freinds and family 25% off sale. They are quite comfortable, durable and the fabrics and patters are nice. Overall I am very satisfied.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

*Borrelli*



mafoofan said:


> I don't have any personal experience with Charvet, but fit is always going to be an issue with RTW shirts. Also, their bespoke shirts may be made differently from their RTW ones--perhaps someone else can chime in on that.
> 
> I've had MTM OCBD shirts made for me by Brooks Brothers: terribly inconsistent and unreliable work. $200 sounds high for one of their shirts.
> 
> Have you considered going bespoke, or at least MTM? For under $400, there are a lot of options. Just don't buy a Borrelli . . .


What is wrong with Borrelli other than the prices start at $395 for RTW shirts. I have many and they have been pretty durable and very good looking. I try to buy them on sale at NM or Barneys sometimes for half off. I have never gone to MTM with Borrelli.. I did try some Ascot Chang Shirts many years ago and did not like them at at. Terrible fabrics and very bad fit.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

I have many Borelli MTM shirts. The ones I bought 2+ years ago have held up well. However, I recently ordered one that was very poorly made: . 

I don't know how typical of Borrelli that is nowadays, but I'm personally not willing to spend more money to find out.


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## the etruscan (Mar 9, 2007)

mafoofan said:


> I have many Borelli MTM shirts. The ones I bought 2+ years ago have held up well. However, I recently ordered one that was very poorly made: .
> 
> I don't know how typical of Borrelli that is nowadays, but I'm personally not willing to spend more money to find out.


I just took delivery of two new Charvet shirts (ordered from Elizabet, apologies for spelling, in Paris) and I am relieved to say that they share none of the drawbacks of the Borelli shirt. They're clearly a different beast though.


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## Romualdo (Oct 18, 2005)

While researcing custom shirts to become a better custom tailored clothier, I purchased a Charvet shirt to find out what makes them so expensive. 

In my experience the shirt fits very well, the fabric is excellent, the buttons are beautiful, and the construction is very detailed. 

That being said, I have yet to find an off the rack shirt that matches Charvet. 

I would suggest buying custom and using fabric from Thomas Mason, D & J Anderson, etc...


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

the etruscan said:


> I just took delivery of two new Charvet shirts (ordered from Elizabet, apologies for spelling, in Paris) and I am relieved to say that they share none of the drawbacks of the Borelli shirt. They're clearly a different beast though.


True. I imagine the error potential is much lower for machine-sewing than for hand-sewing. The Borrelli I received is a clear example of what can go wrong with a poorly hand-sewn shirt--which is to say, a lot.


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

I have a stock special - a red royal oxford. The fit is what it is and no worse than I expected. 

The construction is very good and the fabric, though fine has held up very well over the past year. The next time I can get to Northern Europe long enough to make it happen, I plan to try their bespoke shirts.


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

What I don't get is the willingness to drop $200 + on a RTW shirt, when the fit is unproven. I'm sure at that price point and beyond you're paying for construction, fabric and attention to detail, but all that doesn't matter if the body of the shirt is a bit baggier than you prefer to wear, or the collar is a 16 when you should be wearing a 15 3/4 or your sleeve length is 33 1/4, and the sleeves are 34. I suppose if RTW fits you, that's fine, but just the multiple of variations between makers makes this a difficult thing to ascertain.

I would think instead of purchasing a $400 RTW shirt, one is better finding a recommended MTM/bespoke maker. At that price point, or even lower, you can get the same fabrics, if not better. I don't know about handwork and the like, but I would much rather sacrifice machine work for something that is ill fitting. Granted, the tag doesn't say Charvet or Borrelli, but I think embracing that starts to resemble people embracing other fashion labels that we ordinarily denounce on these boards - not to say they don't make a fine shirt, but as many of these posts demonstrate, they don't live up to the hype.


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## OmegaBlogger (Mar 25, 2007)

>they don't live up to the hype.

I certainly agree they don't live up to the hype at RRP. For me though a Borrelli RTW at $139 or less is a bargain.


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

OmegaBlogger said:


> >they don't live up to the hype.
> 
> I certainly agree they don't live up to the hype at RRP. For me though a Borrelli RTW at $139 or less is a bargain.


You're right, I should qualify at full retail price or even a nominal discount, it's not worth the hype. So I suppose if you buy a charvet for $100, and can get it fitted accordingly, you have a wonderful shirt.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

*Good MTM or others*



teddyriley said:


> What I don't get is the willingness to drop $200 + on a RTW shirt, when the fit is unproven. I'm sure at that price point and beyond you're paying for construction, fabric and attention to detail, but all that doesn't matter if the body of the shirt is a bit baggier than you prefer to wear, or the collar is a 16 when you should be wearing a 15 3/4 or your sleeve length is 33 1/4, and the sleeves are 34. I suppose if RTW fits you, that's fine, but just the multiple of variations between makers makes this a difficult thing to ascertain.
> 
> I would think instead of purchasing a $400 RTW shirt, one is better finding a recommended MTM/bespoke maker. At that price point, or even lower, you can get the same fabrics, if not better. I don't know about handwork and the like, but I would much rather sacrifice machine work for something that is ill fitting. Granted, the tag doesn't say Charvet or Borrelli, but I think embracing that starts to resemble people embracing other fashion labels that we ordinarily denounce on these boards - not to say they don't make a fine shirt, but as many of these posts demonstrate, they don't live up to the hype.


I would love to find a MTM or custom fit shirtmaker in LA or BH that will do a good job for $200+ but I am unsure of who to go to. without having to buy 3-5 shirts from an untested shirtmaker reputation or not is a bit expensive especially if you don't like how they were made for you.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

Tonyp said:


> I would love to find a MTM or custom fit shirtmaker in LA or BH that will do a good job for $200+ but I am unsure of who to go to. without having to buy 3-5 shirts from an untested shirtmaker reputation or not is a bit expensive especially if you don't like how they were made for you.


There are, reputedly, at least two good bespoke shirtmakers in L.A.: Freddy Vandecasteele (see https://sleevehead.blogspot.com/2006/11/freddy-vandecasteele-bespoke.html), and Anto (https://www.antoshirt.com).

Vandecasteele apparently starts at $145 and has no minimum order. A quick and dirty Google search suggests Anto charges $200+ a shirt and has a minimum order of 6--but take that with a grain of salt.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

Pardon my ignorance, but for $200 can't you get a MTM shirt with a yarn count of 140s with MOP buttons from someone like CEGO (in NY) or equivalent? If yes, what is the advantage of a RTW shirt from Charvet?


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

That was exactly my point. But from a construction, materials, and attention to details stand point, Charvet and presumably other high end makers are top notch. Details include for example handwork around the button holes or most likely most of the shirt, pattern matching with the sleeves and the yoke (and most likely other details I'm unware of - which also confirms that if i'm unaware and don't appreciate those details, I surely don't need to be paying for them). And of course, there is a high end cachet that goes along with buying a $400 or even $700 RTW shirt (in the case of Kiton) at retail.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

rkipperman said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but for $200 can't you get a MTM shirt with a yarn count of 140s with MOP buttons from someone like CEGO (in NY) or equivalent? If yes, what is the advantage of a RTW shirt from Charvet?


Ostensibly, the construction quality and more exclusive fabrics?


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

mafoofan said:


> A quick and dirty Google search suggests Anto charges $200+ a shirt and has a minimum order of 6--but take that with a grain of salt.


That's pretty accurate, except you should expect the shirts to start at $250 up to $375 for the most expensive cotton.

I'm a customer of Anto, and am happy with their shirts. I'd recommend them for custom shirts in the LA area.

You can see their shirts almost on a daily basis on many TV shows and movies. Their website has a list. It's gotten to the point now that I can almost always recognize one of their collars when I see it.

--Andre


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Thank you. I will check them out and let you know.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

mafoofan said:


> Ostensibly, the construction quality and more exclusive fabrics?


Has anyone ever done a study to determine whether construction quality in a Charvet will result in a longer lasting shirt than a MTM 140s from CEGO?


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

rkipperman said:


> Has anyone ever done a study to determine whether construction quality in a Charvet will result in a longer lasting shirt than a MTM 140s from CEGO?


Tell you what, send me 5 Charvet shirts, and 5 CEGO shirts--purely to rule out single-sample errors, and I'll wear the living heck out of them and tell you which last longer.

PM me for address.


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## taillfuzz (Mar 30, 2004)

I have many Charvet shirts, bought over a long period of time, and they are wonderful. The fabrics and workmanship are the best, and the fit is consistent. 

Most American men cannot comfortably wear Charvet as they are designed for relatively slim guys. If you have the right body type for Charvet they are definitely worth the $400. One of the main reasons that Borelli is much a more common department store product in America is the blousy fit. Although Borelli fabrics are generally not on a par with Charvet, they are cut to fit the average American body. I also own many Borrelli shirts, so I have a very good basis for comparison.

Sorry guys, but you are not going to find MTM shirts in the $200 price range with Charvet quality fabrics. I can understand many stating that they would not spend $400 for a shirt; but that is much different than smugly stating that no shirt is worth $400.


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

taillfuzz said:


> I have many Charvet shirts, bought over a long period of time, and they are wonderful. The fabrics and workmanship are the best, and the fit is consistent.
> 
> Most American men cannot comfortably wear Charvet as they are designed for relatively slim guys. If you have the right body type for Charvet they are definitely worth the $400. One of the main reasons that Borelli is much a more common department store product in America is the blousy fit. Although Borelli fabrics are generally not on a par with Charvet, they are cut to fit the average American body. I also own many Borrelli shirts, so I have a very good basis for comparison.
> 
> Sorry guys, but you are not going to find MTM shirts in the $200 price range with Charvet quality fabrics. I can understand many stating that they would not spend $400 for a shirt; but that is much different than smugly stating that no shirt is worth $400.


I have never tried a Charvet shirt. But I wonder why not buy a bespoke shirt at that price -- whether from Charvet or some other maker?


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

Here is a video of Charvet on Place Vendome, Paris:

https://video.men.style.com/?&fr_story=d0a3a6c1ff423cdfa2b13c94824183e8bfd58899


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## taillfuzz (Mar 30, 2004)

healinginfluence said:


> I have never tried a Charvet shirt. But I wonder why not buy a bespoke shirt at that price -- whether from Charvet or some other maker?


I have ordered bespoke from Charvet and been very satisfied, great fabric selection. I am fortunate in that Charvet OTR fits me almost as well as bespoke. If I lived in NY I would like to order from AK.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

petro said:


> Tell you what, send me 5 Charvet shirts, and 5 CEGO shirts--purely to rule out single-sample errors, and I'll wear the living heck out of them and tell you which last longer.
> 
> PM me for address.


What size are you?


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## LJVA (Sep 1, 2004)

Romualdo said:


> While researcing custom shirts to become a better custom tailored clothier, I purchased a Charvet shirt to find out what makes them so expensive.
> 
> In my experience the shirt fits very well, the fabric is excellent, the buttons are beautiful, and the construction is very detailed.
> 
> ...


This has been my experience as well... my Charvet shirts have held up remarkably well over the years. If I'm appearing on camera, they're my shirt of choice -- very clean and polished look.


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## Mr. Magoo (Dec 23, 2003)

healinginfluence said:


> I have never tried a Charvet shirt. But I wonder why not buy a bespoke shirt at that price -- whether from Charvet or some other maker?


Several reasons: (a) Charvet RTW may fit as well as person would like already, (b) you can find Charvet RTW on sale for half that so really it can be a $200 shirt if you look (my only Charvet RTW was $80 at Bergdorf's), (c) the person may not want to spend the time, effort, risk factor on a custom shirt.

Not to mention, who, exactly, makes a shirt custom as well as Charvet RTW? If you live in New York, you have Geneva and Paris at a similar price point (Kabbaz is a lot more). What if you live in Kansas City or Dallas and don't know, can't find or don't trust shirt makers who will, let's be clear, have your shirts made in a factory in Chicago or New Jersey anyway?


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## jposhea3 (Jan 28, 2007)

I was just at Charvet, Paris, on the 5th of May and ordered a few demi-bespoke shirts. I think the price is 345 EUR, and since I'll be taking them out of the EU I'll eventually back another 15% out of that price from the VAT refund.

Their pricing varies by fabric grade, just as MTM suits do, and you have 3 options for shirts.

OTR, demi-bespoke, and full-on bespoke. The difference between demi-bespoke and full, in Charvet's case, is demi takes existing standard shirt patterns and adjusts them, a la made-to-measure, where full bespoke has a new pattern being created for you, which is best to deal with highly asymmetric or high-variance-from-'the-norm' body features such as shoulders, bulging biceps, arm length, etc.

I spoke with Monseiur Colban during his visit to Saks in April and he recommended going demi - right now I'm needing an 18" neck but am, fortunately for me, not carrying the equivalent torso mass.

At the store in Paris one of their tailors eyeballed me and put me in a 43 (eur) body with a 46 eur collar, plus a slight shortening of the neck band, and they'll be ready in 5 weeks, which will coincide with my next trip to Europe. We came to this conclusion by testing some sample try-on shirts in 46 (18) and 43 in their 'standard' cut for fitting, and adding in apropriate adjustments (the neckband, sleeve length, lengthening the body of the 43 and adding another buttonhole, etc)

I didn't get a good look at the pricelist, largely because I was overwhelmed by shelf upon shelf of fabric, but I'm thinking it's another +40-60 EUR for full-on bespoke in this 'basic' fabric grade (I think 'D' was the grade I was ordering in).

It was only after I left that it occurred to me that I saw the ground floor full of ties and and silk accessories, and the 2nd floor full of bolts of fabric, but never saw the OTR floor. Guess I have something to look forward to next time! :icon_smile: 

One funny thing: when discussing how we wanted the front of the shirt to look, the tailor had what I was going for - no placket, with the cloth just folded over and stitched through the buttonhole. I referred to this as a 'French front', and they thought it kind of funny as they didn't call it that. Then we went on talking about English collars and the like. Quite amusing how language turns around on itself sometimes.


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## tazmaniac (Apr 27, 2007)

You refer to a standard cut. Does this mean they also have a slimmer proposition for demi-mesure?

thank you!

Daniel


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## jposhea3 (Jan 28, 2007)

tazmaniac said:


> You refer to a standard cut. Does this mean they also have a slimmer proposition for demi-mesure?
> 
> thank you!
> 
> Daniel


they might, they just grabbed what they thought worked for me, I assume.

i'm also unsure if that 'standard' shirt is the 'euro standard' or 'american standard' or what.

I'll be sure to dig into more detailed questions when I go back in late June

and, sadly, Charvet does *NOT* participate in the National sales that occur across France in July.


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## whnay. (Dec 30, 2004)

jposhea3 said:


> I was just at Charvet, Paris, on the 5th of May and ordered a few demi-bespoke shirts. I think the price is 345 EUR, and since I'll be taking them out of the EU I'll eventually back another 15% out of that price from the VAT refund.
> 
> Their pricing varies by fabric grade, just as MTM suits do, and you have 3 options for shirts.
> 
> ...


You will be pleased with the final product. Make sure you take proper care to wash them when they arrive as they will be slightly big to begin with...


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## tazmaniac (Apr 27, 2007)

Thank you very much, It would be nice if you could give us an update about the finished product.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Am wearing a new bespoke shirt of theirs in Zendeline today. Quite sickeningly luxurious.


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## TheHoff (Mar 31, 2007)

Just scored a 15 1/2 NWT in light blue for $109 on eBay.


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## Étienne (Sep 3, 2005)

RJman said:


> Am wearing a new bespoke shirt of theirs


Ah, so you have not entirely switched to Lanvin yet :icon_smile_wink:


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Étienne said:


> Ah, so you have not entirely switched to Lanvin yet :icon_smile_wink:


Mais non... maintenant le zephyr orange et le dragon jacquard...


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

taillfuzz said:


> I have many Charvet shirts, bought over a long period of time, and they are wonderful. The fabrics and workmanship are the best, and the fit is consistent.
> 
> Most American men cannot comfortably wear Charvet as they are designed for relatively slim guys. If you have the right body type for Charvet they are definitely worth the $400. One of the main reasons that Borelli is much a more common department store product in America is the blousy fit. Although Borelli fabrics are generally not on a par with Charvet, they are cut to fit the average American body. I also own many Borrelli shirts, so I have a very good basis for comparison.
> 
> Sorry guys, but you are not going to find MTM shirts in the $200 price range with Charvet quality fabrics. I can understand many stating that they would not spend $400 for a shirt; but that is much different than smugly stating that no shirt is worth $400.


One can easily find shirts of comparable fabric quality in the $200 price range. The vast majority of Charvet's RTW shirts sold at Neiman and Saks are 100/2 and 120/2. Many NYC custom shirtmakers will sell you TS Silverline for the same price. And some will sell you Gold Line for $40 more.

Panzer


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

RJman said:


> Mais non... maintenant le zephyr orange et le dragon jacquard...


 Zendaline is so ... so ... uh ... old. Did you pick up the bolt in an antique shop?


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

taillfuzz said:


> I have many Charvet shirts, bought over a long period of time, and they are wonderful. The fabrics and workmanship are the best, and the fit is consistent.
> 
> Most American men cannot comfortably wear Charvet as they are designed for relatively slim guys. If you have the right body type for Charvet they are definitely worth the $400. One of the main reasons that Borelli is much a more common department store product in America is the blousy fit. Although Borelli fabrics are generally not on a par with Charvet, they are cut to fit the average American body. I also own many Borrelli shirts, so I have a very good basis for comparison.
> 
> Sorry guys, but you are not going to find MTM shirts in the $200 price range with Charvet quality fabrics. I can understand many stating that they would not spend $400 for a shirt; but that is much different than smugly stating that no shirt is worth $400.


Good post. I, too, have had the good fortune of having a set of (4) Charvet demi-bespoke, as well as many MTMs from Borrelli and Kiton. I actually like them all; I think Kiton is the best constructed, but Charvet has the most dynamic selection of fabrics/colors. I don't know why some are down on Borrelli; other than taking nearly 12-16 weeks for delivery, I find them quite spectacular.


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

mafoofan said:


> There are, reputedly, at least two good bespoke shirtmakers in L.A.: Freddy Vandecasteele (see https://sleevehead.blogspot.com/2006/11/freddy-vandecasteele-bespoke.html), and Anto (https://www.antoshirt.com).
> 
> Vandecasteele apparently starts at $145 and has no minimum order. A quick and dirty Google search suggests Anto charges $200+ a shirt and has a minimum order of 6--but take that with a grain of salt.


I wholeheartedly endorse Vandecasteele; great artisan work and a good selection of fabrics.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> Zendaline is so ... so ... uh ... old. Did you pick up the bolt in an antique shop?


I don't know how old the bolt was, but they had one or two bolts and I thought I'd try it out giving the glowing things I'd heard about it. It's pretty amazing -- it has a sheen, it's incredibly light, and it feels like very smooth silk, more so than sea island or sea island quality.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> Zendaline is so ... so ... uh ... old. Did you pick up the bolt in an antique shop?


Someone once said that zendaline was a "must have" for any well dressed gentleman!

_A hybrid of Voile is known as Zendaline. Woven of the high-twist voile yarns in the weft (crosswise), the Zendaline warp is made from Broadcloth yarns. The resulting cloth, for many technical reasons, exhibits only the best features of both yarns. Zendaline has an extremely high sheen reminiscent of the finest broadcloths, but retains the soft hand of the Voiles. Among the upper crust of bespoke shirt wearers, Zendaline is one of the 'must haves' in every wardrobe._ -- Alexander Kabbaz


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

medwards said:


> Someone once said that zendaline was a "must have" for any well dressed gentleman!
> 
> _A hybrid of Voile is known as Zendaline. Woven of the high-twist voile yarns in the weft (crosswise), the Zendaline warp is made from Broadcloth yarns. The resulting cloth, for many technical reasons, exhibits only the best features of both yarns. Zendaline has an extremely high sheen reminiscent of the finest broadcloths, but retains the soft hand of the Voiles. Among the upper crust of bespoke shirt wearers, Zendaline is one of the 'must haves' in every wardrobe._ -- Alexander Kabbaz


 I have this wonderful Panasonic Portable Cellular Telephone. The battery pack/transmitter/receiver section has a cushioned shoulder-strap. It could actually be _removed_ from the vehicle and carried around (for short periods of time). I remember convincing a few others they just had to have that, too. :icon_smile_wink:


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> I have this wonderful Panasonic Portable Cellular Telephone. The battery pack/transmitter/receiver section has a cushioned shoulder-strap. It could actually be _removed_ from the vehicle and carried around (for short periods of time). I remember convincing a few others they just had to have that, too. :icon_smile_wink:


Sort of like how you convince people they need to buy your shirts?:aportnoy:


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Whose zendaline is it?


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## David Bresch (Apr 11, 2004)

There are three "parts" to a shirt: construction, fabric, and fit. Of these three, construction is the least important to the longevity and comfort of the shirt, which is why people argue so much over machine sewing versus hand sewing amongst other things. So rather than spend money on RTW shirts, one should pick a shirt by its fabric, if you go that route, rather than by its brand. You can pick the most over-priced RTW shirt in the most delicate, finest fabric, and you will likely get a poorly fitting shirt that expires after a few washes, but this is no fault of the manufacturer.

If you are at all sensitive to cost, you should order bespoke from one of the Hong Kong outfits (Jantzen obviously the best but the most difficult to deal with, $50-100). If fabric is very important to you, you may have to spend more on one of the bespoke shirters in the USA ($200-300). To be honest, the difference in value between cheap Hong Kong bespoke shirts is so much greater than pricey RTW, I cannot imagine anyone on the forums ever getting expensive RTW shirts, really, really a waste of money. More expensive American bespoke (like Barton or Rays in Philly or the AK in NYC) obviously gets you in a realm where you can get both a great fit and pick whatever fabric you choose, both great things that may be worth the greater expenditure, and obviously to someone who is price-insensitive, are the best option.

I am sure someone is going to pipe in, "What if I find an expensive RTW brand (like Barba) at discount and it fits me great?" Obviously, then, you are a lucky guy. But even at a discount, the best fitting RTW shirts never fit perfectly (usually the sleeves are too long for example), they cost over $100 without alterations, and they come in a limited choice of colors, patterns, and colors.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> Whose zendaline is it?


Mine.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

RJman said:


> Mine.


 Yuk-yuk.


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## udeshi (Sep 29, 2005)

Orange you say RJ? I'm thinking Sic Tess from the 70s. I have some blue, cream and pink. The blue is a dream, and the pink is just a little too peachy for my liking. Might be up your street.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Try Bonfanti's 170's ORANGE Royal Oxford. Fabulous!


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