# What to Wear with Black Watch Jacket



## yossarian (Apr 17, 2007)

I have a function to attend tomorrow evening and I would like to wear my black watch camel hair jacket. But I am not sure what to wear with it. I have gray flannel slacks, but they just don't look quite right with the jacket. Any other suggestions?

Also what color shirt do you think works best? I thought blue OCBD with a wool wolf motif tie was good, but others in my household disagreed.


----------



## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

I think gray flannels would work fine. As far a shirt goes, while a blue OCBD would probably work, I think that a yellow one would be amazing, if you've got one in the closet. Tie choice would be tricky, but I'm thinking that something that is primarily dark navy or dark green might work best, though I'm having a hard time visualizing it. Maybe a dark red as well.


----------



## gar1013 (Sep 24, 2007)

I'm thinking pants-wise you want to go navy blue, and probably white on the shirt.

Of course, I could be wrong.


----------



## HL Poling and Sons (Mar 24, 2006)

I agree with trip on the shirt and tie. A navy or green tie with subtle club or foulard would be nice. A yellow bow would be great, too, again in a foulard. I think a pair of navy flannels would be fantastic.


----------



## randomdude (Jun 4, 2007)

I forget where the picture is, but I first realized that I needed a blackwatch jacket after seeing Brownshoe in khakis, pink OCBD, and a blackwatch jacket. Very, very sharp.


----------



## yossarian (Apr 17, 2007)

The wolf tie is a dark blue tie so that will work.

I don't own blue flannel pants. Could I wear pants from a solid navy suit?


----------



## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

You can weaer khakis, or charcoal wool pants.

Tan trousers can work too.


----------



## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

tripreed said:


> I think that a yellow one would be amazing....


I wholeheartedly second that!

For pants, I'd say a dark grey. Is this evening event formal or semi-formal? If so, khakis may be a bit casual. Although, they would go nicely with that jacket.


----------



## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Dark jeans. Throw brickbats at will.


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Bump, with some photos. I am still looking for Black watch stuff, so...

The first is from our poster Billax, and I will remove it if requested. click around his place and check it out though.









The second is a Ben Silver ad:









Hope it helps.


----------



## fshguy (Jun 18, 2013)

Burgundy cords. 'Tis the season.


----------



## Semper Jeep (Oct 11, 2011)

A black watch camel hair blazer sounds awesome. I now want one and you didn't even post a picture!


----------



## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

fshguy said:


> Burgundy cords. 'Tis the season.


This is my answer for just about everything from Thanksgiving to New Years


----------



## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Several Blackwatch jackets are now on the Exchange!


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Again, courtesy of Billax


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

A Black Watch tartan kilt I suppose, but only if you're a member of the Black Watch, 








Or, in a more contemporary style, you could wear this:

otherwise you could wear a clown outfit instead; it's equally ridiculous! (if you're not a member of the Black watch).


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

^ Not this again.

:badpc:


----------



## shinebox (Nov 2, 2014)

Black Watch screams the Christmas Season and I love it! Red or burgundy cords are great with it!


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

stfu said:


> ^ Not this again.
> 
> :badpc:


Well, if people persist in discussing the wearing of ridiculous fancy dress in a clothing forum I will persist in ridiculing it!


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

stfu said:


> Again, courtesy of Billax


Well, if you fancy red trousers, perhaps these will be in keeping?








Then you can cross reference the styles, a British regimental tartan patterned jacket with French trousers!









It will look as stylish as anything else with such a garment!


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

shinebox said:


> Black Watch screams the Christmas Season and I love it! Red or burgundy cords are great with it!


Remind me again how a British regimental tartan worn as a jacket pattern "screams the Christmas season"?


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Chouan said:


> Well, if you fancy red trousers, perhaps these will be in keeping?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, since you are posting in the "Trad" sub forum, those options don't make a lot of sense as response to the topic at hand. Did you know this is a specific sub forum?



Chouan said:


> Remind me again how a British regimental tartan worn as a jacket pattern "screams the Christmas season"?


We probably can not do so to your satisfaction.


----------



## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

I do my blackwatch on the bottom half.....usually with tan camel hair on the top half. Although, this year I plan to branch out with a new (to me) pair of Royal Stewart tartan trousers, courtesy of Teeedy Don.


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Chouan said:


> Remind me again how a British regimental tartan worn as a jacket pattern "screams the Christmas season"?


Perhaps here in the US such things simply have none of the connotations you might associate with them? For us it's just a color scheme.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

tocqueville said:


> Perhaps here in the US such things simply have none of the connotations you might associate with them? For us it's just *a color scheme*.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And one that is commonly associated (here in the US, at least) with festive occasions, like the upcoming holidays. Why is that so hard to comprehend? Let's not pretend to not be aware that sartorial customs, traditions, and practices can differ from one part of this rock to the other.


----------



## MythReindeer (Jul 3, 2013)

Someone is claiming a standard of bygone days as the only acceptable one? In the trad forum? I never!


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

stfu said:


> Well, since you are posting in the "Trad" sub forum, those options don't make a lot of sense as response to the topic at hand. Did you know this is a specific sub forum?


Perhaps you should make this an "Americans only" sub forum if you find other's involvement so, shall we say intrusive?



stfu said:


> We probably can not do so to your satisfaction.


You're probably right. I can't see any connection whatsoever between the Black Watch and Christmas......


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> Perhaps here in the US such things simply have none of the connotations you might associate with them? For us it's just a color scheme.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I seem to recall that this is not a accepted as a reasonable defence of the Confederate flag........:devil:


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Shaver said:


> I seem to recall that this is not a accepted as a reasonable defence of the Confederate flag........:devil:


That's because the Confederate flag is associated with the enslavement of a whole race of people in America. Does Black Watch also have that connotation in Scotland? (I'm not being facetious. I seriously don't know the answer.)


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

rmpmcdermott said:


> That's because the Confederate flag is associated with the enslavement of a whole race of people in America. Does Black Watch also have that connotation in Scotland? (I'm not being facetious. I seriously don't know the answer.)


Here is not the place for the full discussion. I was, to my shame, merely twisting tocquers tail - although the comparison is valid vis-à-vis associated connotations and the dangers of allowing them to dictate to other's tastes.

On a lighter note:

https://www.breitbart.com/big-gover...ed-counseling-seeing-confederate-flag-laptop/


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Shaver said:


> Here is not the place for the full discussion. I was, to my shame, merely twisting tocquers tail - although the comparison is valid vis-à-vis associated connotations and the dangers of allowing them to dictate to other's tastes.
> 
> On a lighter note:
> 
> https://www.breitbart.com/big-gover...ed-counseling-seeing-confederate-flag-laptop/


Trust me, I don't want a political debate on here! Haha. I come because of the lack of politics. And the love of the Ivy style.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

rmpmcdermott said:


> Trust me, I don't want a political debate on here! Haha. I come because of the lack of politics. And the love of the Ivy style.


Speaking of which - well done on the haircut, a much improved appearance. :thumbs-up:


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Shaver said:


> Speaking of which - well done on the haircut, a much improved appearance. :thumbs-up:


Many thanks!


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Chouan said:


> Perhaps you should make this an "Americans only" sub forum if you find other's involvement so, shall we say intrusive?


All are welcome, I think.

It's just that, well, it's right there in the forum description: "Hello to all. I'm Harris. I live in the Northeastern U.S. and tend toward the American Look. Or Trad or whatever you wish to call it."

So, wearing a Black Watch jacket -especially during the American holiday season- is a component of that aesthetic described right there on the forum header. I understand that you don't get it.

This guy sure gets it:
circa 1961:










and circa today:


----------



## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

One of my work superiors wore a black watch jacket at our staff party last night. She looked stunning. Now I want one.


----------



## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

I've got a holiday party tonight and broke out the Black Watch as well...

Huntington Black Watch sack
BB pinpoint ocbd
Robert Talbott sea otter emblematic
LE flannels
AE shell Grayson


----------



## Brigadier Cheape (Sep 25, 2014)

rmpmcdermott said:


> That's because the Confederate flag is associated with the enslavement of a whole race of people in America. Does Black Watch also have that connotation in Scotland? (I'm not being facetious. I seriously don't know the answer.)


Ironically, the black watch tartan or "government tartan" as it's commonly called was adopted by the British Army when they raised highland companies for service in Scotland. Having banned highland dress and traditions (much easier to control people this way), the British realized that allowing highland units to wear tartan and play bagpipes would be great for recruiting and moral. And the rest is history. 
While the amount of controversy that surrounds the black watch tartan today is probably limited, I would not recommend wearing it on St Patrick's day or whilst visiting Ft Ticonderoga - especially with Allen Edmonds Patriots....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Chouan said:


> Well, if people persist in discussing the wearing of ridiculous fancy dress in a clothing forum I will persist in ridiculing it!


Fair comment but that is what they do. Your average septic cannot see how crappy it looks. Unbelievably naff. They think it is a classy look. We do not.


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

That's a damn good look. I still need to stop in and stop the showroom!



CMDC said:


> I've got a holiday party tonight and broke out the Black Watch as well...
> 
> Huntington Black Watch sack
> BB pinpoint ocbd
> ...


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Brigadier Cheape said:


> Ironically, the black watch tartan or "government tartan" as it's commonly called was adopted by the British Army when they raised highland companies for service in Scotland. Having banned highland dress and traditions (much easier to control people this way), the British realized that allowing highland units to wear tartan and play bagpipes would be great for recruiting and moral. And the rest is history.
> While the amount of controversy that surrounds the black watch tartan today is probably limited, I would not recommend wearing it on St Patrick's day or whilst visiting Ft Ticonderoga - especially with Allen Edmonds Patriots....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Very interesting and thanks for clarifying that for me!


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Kingstonian said:


> Fair comment but that is what they do. Your average septic cannot see how crappy it looks. Unbelievably naff. They think it is a classy look. We do not.


You realize that we can read this, right?


----------



## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> Fair comment but that is what they do. Your average septic cannot see how crappy it looks. Unbelievably naff. They think it is a classy look. We do not.


Yes, that's what _we_ do. And, as _they_ say, that's what makes markets.


----------



## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Nice!



CMDC said:


> I've got a holiday party tonight and broke out the Black Watch as well...
> 
> Huntington Black Watch sack
> BB pinpoint ocbd
> ...


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

CMDC, that's really nice. Pull your square up though! Even more important if the top of your your pocket is losing some of it's form.


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Shaver said:


> Here is not the place for the full discussion. I was, to my shame, merely twisting tocquers tail - although the comparison is valid vis-à-vis associated connotations and the dangers of allowing them to dictate to other's tastes.
> 
> On a lighter note:
> 
> https://www.breitbart.com/big-gover...ed-counseling-seeing-confederate-flag-laptop/


A friend of mine emailed the Charleston, SC menswear shop Ben Silver to challenge their insistence on selling a confederate battle flag tie. They said that they had stopped selling it. Also, they said that it was in fact for the UK market, where some subset of tie buyers liked it. I can only assume that the British purchasers of that tie were not aware of or fully understanding of all the connotations that flag has here. Here it's bascially a political gesture. There, not necessarily. These things happen: one culture appropriates something from another culture and understands it differently. Think of the Nazi appropriation of the Hindu swastika.

By the way, when I was in Charleston this spring, I saw hanging above the store a Confederate flag. Not the battle flag, but the CSA national flag. It is only one of two I have ever seen flown in public, the other being in front of a house in Charleston. Not that I can afford to buy anything from Ben Silver, but that flag is a good reason not to shop there.

Back to Black Watch...What connotations does it have in the UK? Is it in any way political? Or, is it just that for Brits it's an explicit reference to a specific community in Scotland, while for us it's really nothing more than a collection of colors and a pattern?


----------



## Brigadier Cheape (Sep 25, 2014)

The Black Watch tartan is a military tartan, otherwise known as the "government tartan." It's worn as part of the dress uniform for the Black Watch Regiment in both the UK and Canada


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## egerland (Aug 18, 2008)

There might be some Irish Catholics who would object to the tartan, as the BW was stationed in NI during a particularly violent time.


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Brigadier Cheape said:


> The Black Watch tartan is a military tartan, otherwise known as the "government tartan." It's worn as part of the dress uniform for the Black Watch Regiment in both the UK and Canada
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So not much different from someone wearing an M65 jacket?


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

rmpmcdermott said:


> So not much different from someone wearing an M65 jacket?


Strikes me as very different. The M65 jacket became part of popular culture in a weird way.

I think in US culture, as discussed above, it seems to go with what I would describe as WASP culture but other's might describe as Trad or Preppy. And yes, it's a holiday thing. How that happened, I do not know. Suffice it to say I don't own any, but I won't poke fun of anyone showing up in it.


----------



## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

So for that matter, why isn't all Tarton off limits unless you 'own it'?


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

tocqueville said:


> Strikes me as very different. The M65 jacket became part of popular culture in a weird way.
> 
> I think in US culture, as discussed above, it seems to go with what I would describe as WASP culture but other's might describe as Trad or Preppy. And yes, it's a holiday thing. How that happened, I do not know. Suffice it to say I don't own any, but I won't poke fun of anyone showing up in it.


I would!


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

At the risk of undue politicisation, I do appreciate the meaning some choose to attribute to the Southern flag. As comparison, in England the proud display of our own national flag, St. George, is seen by various nitwits as tantamount to racism.

Back on track- Black Watch is merely a design I consider to be ghastly, but I have no objection to others wearing it.



tocqueville said:


> A friend of mine emailed the Charleston, SC menswear shop Ben Silver to challenge their insistence on selling a confederate battle flag tie. They said that they had stopped selling it. Also, they said that it was in fact for the UK market, where some subset of tie buyers liked it. I can only assume that the British purchasers of that tie were not aware of or fully understanding of all the connotations that flag has here. Here it's bascially a political gesture. There, not necessarily. These things happen: one culture appropriates something from another culture and understands it differently. Think of the Nazi appropriation of the Hindu swastika.
> 
> By the way, when I was in Charleston this spring, I saw hanging above the store a Confederate flag. Not the battle flag, but the CSA national flag. It is only one of two I have ever seen flown in public, the other being in front of a house in Charleston. Not that I can afford to buy anything from Ben Silver, but that flag is a good reason not to shop there.
> 
> Back to Black Watch...What connotations does it have in the UK? Is it in any way political? Or, is it just that for Brits it's an explicit reference to a specific community in Scotland, while for us it's really nothing more than a collection of colors and a pattern?


----------



## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

May I refer us to this example? https://wearingtheivyleaguelooksinc.../12/look-of-week-126-12122015-tis-season.html


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Duvel said:


> May I refer us to this example? https://wearingtheivyleaguelooksinc.../12/look-of-week-126-12122015-tis-season.html


Apart from the questionable choice of shoes (I can't stand those tasseled shoes) the trousers are too short. 
I have withheld my critique of the jacket.....


----------



## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Chouan - Please post a photo of yourself in an acceptable outfit please.


----------



## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Chouan said:


> Apart from the questionable choice of shoes (I can't stand those tasseled shoes) the trousers are too short.
> I have withheld my critique of the jacket.....


We get it....it's not you style of dressing. No-break trousers, tassel loafers, bold "GTH" patterns....these are all common elements of the ivy/prep/trad style that clearly don't agree with you. May I suggest you not waste any more of your time on the Trad Forum since the aesthetic is obviously not your cup of tea.


----------



## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Shaver said:


> At the risk of undue politicisation, I do appreciate the meaning some choose to attribute to the Southern flag. As comparison, in England the proud display of our own national flag, St. George, is seen by various nitwits as tantamount to racism.


+1. I know this isn't the place for a discussion on the topic, but I agree with you. It's a shame that some of our historical symbols have been co-opted by ignorant, racist idiots to the extent that their only remaining historical significance in the eyes of most people is a negative one. I have ancestors that fought and died while serving in the Confederate 37th Alabama Infantry Regiment, so the symbols of that war do hold a meaning for me that has nothing to do with the hate and bigotry with which they have unfortunately become associated.



Shaver said:


> Back on track- Black Watch is merely a design I consider to be ghastly, but I have no objection to others wearing it.


Back on track indeed......ghastly is perfectly acceptable, even preferable, when it comes to GTH items like Black Watch jackets or, in my case, trousers!


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Triathlete said:


> Chouan - Please post a photo of yourself in an acceptable outfit please.


I have done in the past, and when I have time I will do so again.


----------



## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Chouan said:


> Apart from the questionable choice of shoes (I can't stand those tasseled shoes) the trousers are too short.
> I have withheld my critique of the jacket.....


Why are you posting on the Trad Forum? It's clearly not your preferred style. This forum is about American Ivy League Style.

Perhaps find one catering to British style and begin posting there? You won't win your battle here.


----------



## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Chouan said:


> I have done in the past, and when I have time I will do so again.


The typical response by the online forum troll who criticizes, then hides behind a boulder.

You're wearing clothing today, right? Find someone to take your photo.

The bravest among us are those who post images in the WAYWT thread.


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

gamma68 said:


> Why are you posting on the Trad Forum? It's clearly not your preferred style. This forum is about American Ivy League Style.
> 
> Perhaps find one catering to British style and begin posting there? You won't win your battle here.


Agreed. What's the point in coming into a Trad/Ivy forum and telling us you don't like the ivy league look? I don't like 2-button, darted jackets with side vents, but I don't go around to the AAAC fashion forum and tell everyone their sport coats don't have enough buttons.


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Forgive the need for pressing and steaming, I had time for a quick proof of concept this am and took a mirror shot:



It will work for my needs of a very casual setting, even though the jacket is still a bit too snug.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

rmpmcdermott said:


> Agreed. What's the point in coming into a Trad/Ivy forum and telling us you don't like the ivy league look? I don't like 2-button, darted jackets with side vents, but I don't go around to the AAAC fashion forum and tell everyone their sport coats don't have enough buttons.


I didn't realise that wearing one's trousers too short is an "Ivy League" look. What was the point in showing a photograph with a sort of "what do you think" if one doesn't actually want a critique?


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

gamma68 said:


> The typical response by the online forum troll who criticizes, then hides behind a boulder.
> 
> You're wearing clothing today, right? Find someone to take your photo.
> 
> The bravest among us are those who post images in the WAYWT thread.


As I have done in the past. I'm sure that you could find them if you looked!


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

gamma68 said:


> Why are you posting on the Trad Forum? It's clearly not your preferred style. This forum is about American Ivy League Style.
> 
> Perhaps find one catering to British style and begin posting there? You won't win your battle here.


It isn't that "Trad" isn't my preferred style, it was that particular style, the Black Watch tartan fabric jacket that I was criticising, as it looks, to me, like fancy dress.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Here's one.
And another:


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

chouan,
It's clear you've given your answer to the thread title. Your answer is "Nothing; Do not wear a Black Watch jacket."

Now that we all agree on your position, perhaps you'd like to spend your time sharing your views in another thread or topic?

As to critiques, folks are usually glad to receive them when they respect the judgement of the person providing them.

Edit to add: What marvelous landscapes you've shared.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

And another








And another


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

And another


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Two more of a different look:


----------



## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

That's why we like Black Watch items. It's 'fancy' in a 'go to hell' way. It's out of the norm wear...


----------



## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Chouan, with all due respect, your photos show little that reflects Ivy Style. It begs the question: why is this gentleman posting in the Trad forum?

Your posts also, unfortunately, fuel the stereotype that Brits have little understanding of Ivy Style.

If you're seeking other members who may share your style sensibilities, might I suggest the Fashion Forum?

P.S. Your trousers are too long.


----------



## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Triathlete said:


> That's why we like Black Watch items. It's 'fancy' in a 'go to hell' way. It's out of the norm wear...


Chouan suggested that it's coded totally differently over there: there, it would somewhat unseemly to wear it in a "go to hell" spirit.


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Chouan said:


> I didn't realise that wearing one's trousers too short is an "Ivy League" look. What was the point in showing a photograph with a sort of "what do you think" if one doesn't actually want a critique?


Wearing trousers cuffed with no break is the epitome of Ivy style. I didn't realize wearing a spread collar shirt and double breasted jacket with the shoulders too wide was Ivy style.


----------



## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Chouan said:


> And another


I'm sorry you've never had a proper tailor work on your trousers, they're far too long and look rather schlubby. It's quite terrible taste to drag your trouser hems through the muck and the dirt all day. You also may want to going down a size or two in your jackets, your shoulders are far too long and built up in a way that's quite indicative of a Jos. A. Bank wardrobe. I'm sure the gentlemen around here will be all too happy to help you find clothes that fit properly.


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

To quote the venerable Billax: “It is better to endure the occasional flood than to live in a perpetual puddle.”


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

gamma68 said:


> Chouan, with all due respect, your photos show little that reflects Ivy Style. It begs the question: why is this gentleman posting in the Trad forum?


Or, more directly to the point, in a thread asking for examples of items paired with a Black Watch jacket.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

gamma68 said:


> Chouan, with all due respect, your photos show little that reflects Ivy Style. It begs the question: why is this gentleman posting in the Trad forum?
> 
> Your posts also, unfortunately, fuel the stereotype that Brits have little understanding of Ivy Style.
> 
> ...


I posted because I was challenged to do so. Of course my style is not "Ivy Style", but when I was told, by you

"*The typical response by the online forum troll who criticizes, then hides behind a boulder. 
You're wearing clothing today, right? Find someone to take your photo.
**The bravest among us are those who post images in the WAYWT thread.*"

I responded. It seems a bit much that, having done as you seemed to demand in posting some pictures that you're now condemning me as not being of "Ivy Style", when I've never pretended to be of such a persuasion.
If, however, you simply wished me to post pictures so that you could criticise, you've got your wish, criticise away.....


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

stfu said:


> Or, more directly to the point, in a thread asking for examples of items paired with a Black Watch jacket.


I refer you to my previous post.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

rmpmcdermott said:


> Wearing trousers cuffed with no break is the epitome of Ivy style. I didn't realize wearing a spread collar shirt and double breasted jacket with the shoulders too wide was Ivy style.


I refer you to my previous post.


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

May I refer you to a more appropriate thread?


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Chouan said:


> I posted because I was challenged to do so. Of course my style is not "Ivy Style", but when I was told, by you
> 
> "*The typical response by the online forum troll who criticizes, then hides behind a boulder.
> You're wearing clothing today, right? Find someone to take your photo.
> ...


I was replying to your criticism of Billax's trousers being too short, not any comments you made about Blackwatch. And then, in kind, I was giving my criticism of your trousers as well as what I thought to be jackets that were ill-fitting. Since this is a trad/ivy forum, it made no sense to me for someone to come on and criticize what many would consider the perfect length for ivy trousers. I'm not trying to convince anyone that ivy is the only style, but that's what we all love on this particular forum.


----------



## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

And he in fact was quoting his mentor, I believe. And so it goes, the lessons get passed on.

I always think of that quote when I see men with their puddling trousers.



rmpmcdermott said:


> To quote the venerable Billax: "It is better to endure the occasional flood than to live in a perpetual puddle."


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Duvel said:


> And he in fact was quoting his mentor, I believe. And so it goes, the lessons get passed on.
> 
> I always think of that quote when I see men with their puddling trousers.


That's right! He was quoting his mentor. It's great that things like that get passed on.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

stfu said:


> May I refer you to a more appropriate thread?


As I said on page 1, I think, of this thread:
"*Perhaps you should make this an "Americans only" sub forum if you find other's involvement so, shall we say intrusive? "*


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Whilst my modality of dress is far from American Trad, my taste has evolved (with exposure to this forum) to include a fondness for the no break trouser- an admirably clean line.


----------



## rmpmcdermott (Oct 27, 2015)

Chouan said:


> As I said on page 1, I think, of this thread:
> "*Perhaps you should make this an "Americans only" sub forum if you find other's involvement so, shall we say intrusive? "*


Now you're just stirring up **** and crying victim. There are plenty of people from all over the world on this board and on similar ivy/trad boards that have a lot of fun talking about the ivy league look. No one has ever tried to exclude non-Americans. You were being combative from the start saying people who like the blackwatch pattern could wear clown suits instead. You think you can talk to people that way and not get **** for it? Has nothing to do with where you're from. It has to do with your attitude.


----------



## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Chouan said:


> I posted because I was challenged to do so. Of course my style is not "Ivy Style", but when I was told, by you
> 
> "*The typical response by the online forum troll who criticizes, then hides behind a boulder.
> You're wearing clothing today, right? Find someone to take your photo.
> ...


The man has a point here. Why y'all asked him (really, dared him) to post a fit here I don't really understand. I simply suggested that he not waste any more time on a forum dedicated to a clothing style he finds unappealing. Seemed like a reasonable solution. Still does.


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Chouan said:


> As I said on page 1, I think, of this thread:
> "*Perhaps you should make this an "Americans only" sub forum if you find other's involvement so, shall we say intrusive? "*


And as I replied then, it is nothing to do with "Americans". It has to do with a specific aesthetic. All are welcome.

But you know that, and are here to be an antagonist. I find it a strange way to spend one's time. I wish the pictures more suitable for a "WAYWT" thread would be moved there (likely the fashion forum), so the discussion of wonderful Black Watch jackets and what to pair them with could continue as intended.


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

FLCracka said:


> The man has a point here. Why y'all asked him (really, dared him) to post a fit here I don't really understand.


He could have posted them in an appropriate thread instead of this one, even when asked. It would be perfectly reasonable, and has been done dozens of times, to post pictures and ask something along the lines of "Does this fit within the conventional norms of "trad"?" right in this very forum. Or, if in a more "WAYWT" context, they'd go right in the fashion forum.



FLCracka said:


> I simply suggested that he not waste any more time on a forum dedicated to a clothing style he finds unappealing. Seemed like a reasonable solution. Still does.


It was and still is an obvious solution. It seems chouan enjoys antagonizing people, though, and we are his foils.


----------



## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Chouan, I think you've made your point. Enough already.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

A few points raised here might merit some elaboration: The notion that the cruel Nazis appropriated the Hindus' symbol of the swastika is an oversimplification. In point of fact, it is a very ancient solar symbol going back to prehistory and found over much of Eurasia. Many native American tribes used the swastika as a decorative and religious motif. Obviously, they would have not been influenced by Hinduism. Interestingly, it was an extremely popular decorative motif and good luck symbol in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. For a few years, I attended St. James' Episcopal Church in Los Angeles. The entire floor of that magnificent church was (and I presume still is) covered with swastikas. The swastika was particularly popular in the Baltic regions. Several of the countries there used it as an insigne in the interwar period. It is thought that that its use may have been picked up by the Freikorps troops fighting in that area after WWI and segued from there to the Nazis.

As to the Confederate battle flag, now widely perceived as a symbol of bigotry and intolerance, it actually had its origins as a symbol of tolerance and inclusion. The story is that the designer of the battle flag original planned to use a blue St. George's cross, but a prominent Jewish confederate, of which there were no few, wrote him asking him not to use the symbol of a specific religion on the flag, and so he redesigned the flag to use the saltire or St. Andrew's cross to avoid offending Jewish sensibilities. 

On the matter of Black Watch jackets, I am going to a rather elegant holiday soiree this Saturday. The host said he expected the men to be in coat and tie. I was thinking of using my Black Watch blazer from Chan with a white broadcloth FC shirt (Yeah, I know its a violation of "The Rules"--so be it!, dark gray slacks, dark blue tie with white pindots, white silk square and black shoes for sort of a "sub-tux" look. Any thoughts or comments?


----------



## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

JLibourel said:


> On the matter of Black Watch jackets, I am going to a rather elegant holiday soiree this Saturday. The host said he expected the men to be in coat and tie. I was thinking of using my Black Watch blazer from Chan with a white broadcloth FC shirt (Yeah, I know its a violation of "The Rules"--so be it!, dark gray slacks, dark blue tie with white pindots, white silk square and black shoes for sort of a "sub-tux" look. Any thoughts or comments?


I think it will look swell, and think you should post a photo here of it!


----------



## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

JLibourel said:


> On the matter of Black Watch jackets, I am going to a rather elegant holiday soiree this Saturday. The host said he expected the men to be in coat and tie. I was thinking of using my Black Watch blazer from Chan with a white broadcloth FC shirt (Yeah, I know its a violation of "The Rules"--so be it!, dark gray slacks, dark blue tie with white pindots, white silk square and black shoes for sort of a "sub-tux" look. Any thoughts or comments?


Sounds perfect! And I second the request for pics.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape (Sep 25, 2014)

Chouan said:


> And another


Critical of a black watch jacket because it looks like "fancy dress".....to each his own I suppose.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

FLCracka said:


> The man has a point here. Why y'all asked him (really, dared him) to post a fit here I don't really understand. I simply suggested that he not waste any more time on a forum dedicated to a clothing style he finds unappealing. Seemed like a reasonable solution. Still does.


Indeed, I was challenged to post some pictures, so I did so. Now I'm being criticised for doing so.

Still, I get it, this is a thread solely and exclusively for people who only *like* the styles in question, not for members in general.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

gamma68 said:


> Chouan, I think you've made your point. Enough already.


You challenged me to post some pictures, so I did. Given the response, from you and others, I consider that my suspicion of your motives was correct.


----------



## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Isn't this website moderated? This Chewan guy seems like another Cruiser.


----------



## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Chouan said:


> You challenged me to post some pictures, so I did. Given the response, from you and others, I consider that my suspicion of your motives was correct.


When confronted, most forum bullies retreat and claim they'll post photos, someday, when they're up to it. Well, bravo--you posted some photos. I'll give you credit for that.

For someone so critical of the way others choose to dress (might as well wear a clown outfit if you choose to wear blackwatch) you appear in need of a serious sartorial overhaul. That's about as kind as I can put it.

The intent of this thread is to provide suggestions to the OP on what would work well with a blackwatch jacket. Many good iseas have been shared, with excellent photos to illustrate. No one here is wearing a "clown outfit" when they don blackwatch. Your suggestion is insulting.

Chouan, you've made your point. No need for further comment.


----------



## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

tocqueville said:


> Perhaps here in the US such things simply have none of the connotations you might associate with them? For us it's just a color scheme.





FLCracka said:


> And one that is commonly associated (here in the US, at least) with festive occasions, like the upcoming holidays. Why is that so hard to comprehend? Let's not pretend to not be aware that sartorial customs, traditions, and practices can differ from one part of this rock to the other.


Here in Britain, Black Watch tartan jackets are rare as hen's teeth, (I did see a man in a full Black Watch tuxedo last summer), but Charles Tyrwhitt are now selling them, (and trousers) and had them very prominently displayed when I was last in Jermyn Street in November, and in the catalogues they constantly send me. So perhaps it is something that we'll see more of sometime soon. Certainly not "a clown outfit".
They also have Royal Stewart ones too.












tocqueville said:


> By the way, when I was in Charleston this spring, I saw hanging above the store a Confederate flag. Not the battle flag, but the CSA national flag. It is only one of two I have ever seen flown in public, the other being in front of a house in Charleston. Not that I can afford to buy anything from Ben Silver, but that flag is a good reason not to shop there.


As for Confederate flags, it's sad that you are bullied by the current political correctness into trying to erase your country's history. Yes, I know it's a topic more suited to the Interchange.
By the way, the Confederate Flag is often seen at football and hurling games in Ireland when Cork are playing. Cork being nicknamed "The Rebel County" (dates back to the 17th century), it's sports teams are always called The Rebels, and the team colours are red and white.


----------



## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Chouan said:


> You challenged me to post some pictures, so I did. Given the response, from you and others, I consider that my suspicion of your motives was correct.


I think we're all just shocked that someone with 3500 posts hasn't managed to grasp the basics of fit. I mean, that 6x1has broader wings than the flying nun! Stick around here, keep posting your pictures, and we'll have you corrected eventually. Even old dogs can learn new tricks, right?
:beer:


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Reuben said:


> I think we're all just shocked that someone with 3500 posts hasn't managed to grasp the basics of fit. I mean, that 6x1has broader wings than the flying nun! Stick around here, keep posting your pictures, and we'll have you corrected eventually. Even old dogs can learn new tricks, right?
> :beer:


I'm advised "_*Chouan, you've made your point. No need for further comment*_." but you feel the need to continue?


----------



## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

^ Would a moderator please step in and take care of this nonsense? 

In the meantime, I'd like to see more images of exemplary outfits with blackwatch jackets.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Gentlemen: 

That is enough! Chouan, you have made your point. Further comment is simply trolling and will not be tolerated. For the rest of you, many could benefit by rereading your rebuttal postings and reflect of the lack of good manners reflected in many of those responses. Ask yourselves, did my words help resolve or add to the problem at hand!


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

A few days back I stated I was planning to wear a Black Watch blazer to a Christmas party tomorrow. Today the host told me he was going to be wearing a suit. So, then, shall I.


----------



## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Decided to "flip the script", with BW on the bottom half.....


----------



## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Grey Fox wearing black watch trousers with a velvet jacket (and in England too).


----------



## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Nice!!


----------

