# Charles Tyrwhitt shoe question?



## JohnAndrew (Oct 5, 2005)

Who makes the shoes for Charles Tyrwhitt and how is there quality?


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

*Barker?*



JohnAndrew said:


> Who makes the shoes for Charles Tyrwhitt and how is there quality?


Received wisdom is that they are made by Loake and I have never seen any other maker suggested in the frequent discussions here about them. However I have reason to believe some are now made by Barker.

Trimmer


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

Trimmer said:


> Received wisdom is that they are made by Loake and I have never seen any other maker suggested in the frequent discussions here about them. However I have reason to believe some are now made by Barker.
> 
> Trimmer


I think they're all still made by Loake - I've heard that some people think that the new calf shoes look like Barker's, but I'm pretty sure they're loake.


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## jjl5000 (May 14, 2006)

I can't speak for the entire range but...

The new wholecuts are Barkers as are the patent evening oxfords. The rest may still include a number of Loake models?


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

*a.k.a Tyrwhitt*



jjl5000 said:


> I can't speak for the entire range but...
> 
> The new wholecuts are Barkers as are the patent evening oxfords. The rest may still include a number of Loake models?


Yes, it was the wholecuts that I understood were made by Barker.

It has been suggested to me (more surprisingly) that Tyrwhitt have also used Cheaney and Tricker.

Trimmer


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

I've never seen a Tyrwhitt shoe that remotely looked like it was Trickers manufactured. If the new wholcut is Barkers, it seems that they lowered their quality for this shoe. Barkers isn't wonderful, but the wholecut shoe is made to Loake standards, which aren't great. Also, that medallion is just too big. Keep in mind that Tyrwhitts run large and they have a lot of give. Also, other than the newest models, you can get them much cheaper as "seconds" through Herring Shoes


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## Bertie Wooster (Feb 11, 2006)

Trimmer said:


> It has been suggested to me (more surprisingly) that Tyrwhitt have also used Cheaney and Tricker.
> Trimmer


Don't know about Tyrwhitt, but I have been told by one of their managers that Lewin has certain models made by Cheaney. One that springs to mind is their Picadilly model. Can't see it myself but thats the story.



emorel98 said:


> Keep in mind that Tyrwhitts run large and they have a lot of give.


Another reason to reinforce them being made by Loake !


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## jjl5000 (May 14, 2006)

Trimmer said:


> Yes, it was the wholecuts that I understood were made by Barker.
> 
> It has been suggested to me (more surprisingly) that Tyrwhitt have also used Cheaney and Tricker.
> 
> Trimmer


Trickers... usually have channelled soles (don't they?) and tend to be on the slimmer side. I think their usual width fitting is 5, being equivalent to a UK E / US D. These attributes are not in common with Tyrwhitt offerings but I dare say Tricker's could produce shoes to any specification if desired.


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## JRY (Mar 22, 2005)

JohnAndrew,

I just received a pair of Tyrwhitt's brown suede demi-brogues today. For the price, I'm very satisfied. In fact, I can't see any appreciable difference between the Tyrwhitt demi-brogues and Brooks Brothers Peal & Co.'s suede demi-brogues except over $300.00 difference in price. C&J I'm certain would be another matter, but once again - I'm happy! Can't wait to pair them up with my Harris tweeds, camel hair and flannels.

Regards,

JRY


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

I just got these "Cherry Whole Cut Calf Leather Brogue Shoes" from Charles Tyrwhitt!

On their site it says _"These beautiful calf leather shoes are crafted in Northampton, from cutting the leather to antique finishing by hand."_








The color and antiquing are very nice. The fit is roomy, but I don't mind that. You can always add a thin insert if you like. I've worn them around the house for one day and there were no wrinkles in the shoe (so far!).

The brogueing may be larger than my Tricker's, but with this cherry (burgundy) color it really doesn't show up that much.

I have some Loakes from Herring Shoes, which I like very much. The sole of both the Loakes and Tyrwhitt shoes look very similar (nail pattern, rubber insert, etc.).

For the price I think I'm going to enjoy the style, feel, and color of my Trywhitt whole cuts.


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

JRY said:


> JohnAndrew,
> 
> I just received a pair of Tyrwhitt's brown suede demi-brogues today. For the price, I'm very satisfied. In fact, I can't see any appreciable difference between the Tyrwhitt demi-brogues and Brooks Brothers Peal & Co.'s suede demi-brogues except over $300.00 difference in price. C&J I'm certain would be another matter, but once again - I'm happy! Can't wait to pair them up with my Harris tweeds, camel hair and flannels.
> 
> ...


Wait till you put some wear on the Tyrwhitt's. You'll see why the C&J's cost more. I hate to rain on your parade but I have a pair of Norwich's and the Tyrwhitt calf leather brogue. They are a few months old, maybe 10-15 wearings a piece. I'm going to give them away. Free. They really open up and the wholecut in particular develops more creases than an elephant. When I first got them, through Herring, I was a big fan as they looks and feel great. Now, you could almost fit my hand in there with my foot and they just don't look that good.


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

here are pictures of the new tywhitt wholecut from ebay:





based on the soles, it looks like it's a loake 1880.

this is what i was thinking when i said i was pretty sure the new calf shoes were also loakes.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Andy said:


> I just got these "Cherry Whole Cut Calf Leather Brogue Shoes" from Charles Tyrwhitt!
> 
> On their site it says _"These beautiful calf leather shoes are crafted in Northampton, from cutting the leather to antique finishing by hand."_


*Which is interesting as the Loake factory is not in Northampton but in Ketttering. *
*And does 'crafted' mean the same thing as 'made', I wonder?*

*Trimmer*


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

*Barkers?*



jjl5000 said:


> I can't speak for the entire range but...
> 
> The new wholecuts are Barkers as are the patent evening oxfords. The rest may still include a number of Loake models?


Could I ask - politely - how you know this?


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

emorel98 said:


> Wait till you put some wear on the Tyrwhitt's. You'll see why the C&J's cost more. I hate to rain on your parade but I have a pair of Norwich's and the Tyrwhitt calf leather brogue. They are a few months old, maybe 10-15 wearings a piece. I'm going to give them away. Free. They really open up and the wholecut in particular develops more creases than an elephant. When I first got them, through Herring, I was a big fan as they looks and feel great. Now, you could almost fit my hand in there with my foot and they just don't look that good.


Could I ask if you got 'Tyrwhitts' from Herring or 'Loakes' which you assuming to be the same as Tyrwhitts? The Norwich is very similar to the Tyrwhitt wholecut but not identical.

I know I am getting a bit obsessive about this, but I am wondering to what extent the factories are involved in producing shoes to each other's design and quality level. In other words if Tyrwhitt order a 'variation on a Loake' might this (or some of them) still be made by Barker?

Trimmer


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## Brideshead (Jan 11, 2006)

Trimmer said:


> *Which is interesting as the Loake factory is not in Northampton but in Ketttering. *
> *And does 'crafted' mean the same thing as 'made', I wonder?*
> 
> *Trimmer*


On their site in respect of most shoes the following is stated 'Made in Northants, England the home of shoe making'. Northants, the county would include Kettering. Further evidence of the Loake connection?


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Brideshead said:


> On their site in respect of most shoes the following is stated 'Made in Northants, England the home of shoe making'. Northants, the county would include Kettering. Further evidence of the Loake connection?


True, but if you were going to visit them you would take the train to Kettering not Northampton. Believe me, I know I'm nit-picking, but we don't normally say Hertford when me mean Herts or Lancaster when we mean Lancs.

I think we all agreed that most Tyrwhitt shoes are made by Loake, it's just that there are 'sources' which suggest otherwise. The more general question is to what extent factories are producing each other's 'products'.

Trimmer


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

Trimmer said:


> True, but if you were going to visit them you would take the train to Kettering not Northampton. Believe me, I know I'm nit-picking, but we don't normally say Hertford when me mean Herts or Lancaster when we mean Lancs.
> 
> I think we all agreed that most Tyrwhitt shoes are made by Loake, it's just that there are 'sources' which suggest otherwise. The more general question is to what extent factories are producing each other's 'products'.
> 
> Trimmer


There are no reliable sources that say otherwise. Take any Tyrwhitt shoe and put it side by side wth a Loake and they are essentially identical. Tyrwhitt even uses the same model numbers as Loake. Factories are not producing each others products. If you like Loake/Tyrwhitt, that is fine as it is a decent entry level shoe. Don't confuse Tyrwhitt for something higher quality than what it is. BTW, some English manufacturers, including Loake, are having parts of their "Made In England" shoes made in India.


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## jjl5000 (May 14, 2006)

Trimmer said:


> Could I ask - politely - how you know this?


 
I have a pair of the cherry wholecuts from Tyrwhitt and have seen the same (exactly the same) shoe offered by Barkers. Incidentally, the Barker's direct offering was in a colour not offered by Tyrwhitt.

I do understand what other forum members have said about the sole being identical to those used in the Loake 1880 range ( I also have a half dozen pairs of 1880s). The insole on the wholecuts is not as smooth as the leather insoles in Loake 1880s, it's a little more 'raw' where as the 1880 insole (at least based on the pairs I have) is extremely smooth. The rougher insole is in keeping with a number of other pairs of Barkers I have. This last point is merely incidental but I thought I mention it.

The patent dress oxfords are no mystery&#8230; the shoes carry the last number which matches a number of other Barker's I have (last 327 if I remember correctly).


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

NoVaguy said:


> here are pictures of the new tywhitt wholecut from ebay:
> 
> based on the soles, it looks like it's a loake 1880.
> 
> this is what i was thinking when i said i was pretty sure the new calf shoes were also loakes.


 The Cherry (second link) are the shoes I just got!! So far (one wearing :icon_smile_big: ) I really like them!


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

And (all things being relative) how would you compare the Trywhitt shoes to Johnson & Murphy or Cole Haan? :icon_smile:


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## jsherman02 (Oct 9, 2006)

I spoke with CT, and they are made by Loake.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

jsherman02 said:


> I spoke with CT, and they are made by Loake.


 . . . of Kettering.

Did you ask them if they ever use anyone else?

Trimmer


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

*Tyrwhitt shoes made by Barker*

I wandered into Barker's sale on Regent Street this afternoon and saw several pairs of Barker-labelled wholecuts in different sizes all clearly marked MCACHE - which is the Tyrwhitt code for their own wholecut.

It seems to me this confirms that not all Tywhitt shoes are made by Loake.

Trimmer


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