# Deciding between a lapeled and non-lapel waistcoat



## messina47 (Jun 25, 2012)

I've decided to try out an online MTM site for a new suit. They have some nice fabrics and its not too expensive to prohibit a try. 

That said I definitely want to order a 3-piece, rather have the waistcoat available when I want to wear rather than desiring something I could have had. I am having a difficult time deciding between a waistcoat with or without lapels.

Any suggestions in the look will be appreciated as well as if anyone has pictures to compare.

Thanks for the input.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Simply put, I'd say if you want a more sober, conservative look, don't have lapels. If you aspire to a more flashy, dandified look, then by all means go for the lapels.


----------



## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

Also, if you see yourself with your jacket off, ie at the office, I think lapels look great by themselves.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

If it's your first three piece suit, I'd say go without lapels. Keep in mind that lapels also make the suit look busier.


----------



## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

I would go with lapels. The mere lack of them on the RTW market (for example I can go to Sears and buy a regular waistcoat but cannot find one with lapels) make them a target best used for MTM. I have about five waistcoats (not counting sweater vests) in my closet. Some are for performing, some for Scottish Rite, and some for parties. But I do not own a lapeled waistcoat and it would be more than a novelty. It would be a cause for excitement when I get dressed.

Get the lapeled waistcoat. I can find regular ones anywhere.

Tom


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I have come to prefer lapels on all my vests for one simple reason: they help the vest lie flatter against your chest. Even a well-cut lapel-less vest will tend to buckle a bit as one sits, stands, leans over, etc. Lapels, in my experience, add just enough weight and structure to tamp things down and keep the vest from puffing out above the pectoral. 

As for the old notions that lapels are more dandified, the mere existence of a vest means you are dressed in a slightly dandified way.* I think 99% of people wouldn't have any notion of whether lapels make a vest more or less dandified. 

* Sidebar: I went to court today for a hearing. I wore a 3-piece to the office, but left the vest behind for the hearing, where I was not eager to be percieved by the judge as any sort of fancy-pants. Clothing is a language, and you have to think about what you are saying, when, and where. I wear vests a lot, but not ALL the time.


----------



## messina47 (Jun 25, 2012)

This will be my first 3 piece suit, as a law student most of my current suits fall on the conservative side. I have a navy with a conservative pinstripe but have been wanting a solid navy for a while now. I was thinking of getting this one as my solid navy but then was also thinking of having a little more fun with it as my first try at MTM and 3 piece. Maybe something I would wear more to weddings and some of the more casual social events we have that I still want a suit for.

I was looking to try Harry's suits, saw a small write up on Andy's page. Looking at so e of the others as well, any experience with Harry's?


----------



## bluesman (Aug 17, 2009)

This thread may help you a bit. I'd never encountered a vest with lapels in person before, and I had misgivings about it until I talked to my tailor and some friends and saw the responses to my thread asking about it.

My first one (a style apparently known as a postboy vest) is a heavy tweed, so the lapels don't lay as flat as they would in most suit materials. I won't hesitate to get another - I really like the look. Sorry, but I don't have any pics except the original ones from the referenced thread, e.g.


----------



## messina47 (Jun 25, 2012)

Thanks bluesman, that thread was a good read. I definitely think I am going to go with a lapeled vest for the 3piece sut.


----------



## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

I would go without lapels. I prefer simplicity and agree with the comment made about lapels risking busy-ness. I also agree with CuffDaddy about wearing a three-piece suit itself being more likely to attract the perception of dandification than the presence or absence of lapels.

I don't understand the comment about going for a feature not associated with OTR suits - that seems a little showy / picking something for novelty value.

If you want to be really dandified, how about a double-breasted waistcoat (we Brits use waistcoat for vest - I try to adapt to the American terminology, but vest in the UK means an undershirt, so I struggle with this one!).


----------



## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

I have a three piece with a DB waistcoat with peak lapels in a blue flannel.

It's has a keystone layout of the buttons.

I like it a lot. I think lapels are quite nice on a waistcoat, but less is usually more. It's a little "cleaner" looking without lapels.

Edit: edited for errors


----------



## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

Balfour,

I was merely trying to say, if you're paying for it, don't get something you can get at Sears for twenty bucks. Get something different from the normal.

Tom


----------



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

I just ordered my first three piece (after many 2 piece MTMs) from a new tailor who has quite the process (measuring and discussing the details took over 2 hours). We went with a SB lapelled waistcoat, as the jacket is SB. I'm not much of a fan of them without a lapel, however I was always under the impression that a DB waistcoat doesn't go with an SB suit outside of formal attire. The DBPL waistcoat is one of my favorites.


----------



## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> I just ordered my first three piece (after many 2 piece MTMs) from a new tailor who has quite the process (measuring and discussing the details took over 2 hours). We went with a SB lapelled waistcoat, as the jacket is SB. I'm not much of a fan of them without a lapel, however I was always under the impression that a DB waistcoat doesn't go with an SB suit outside of formal attire. The DBPL waistcoat is one of my favorites.


Have seen them around at least. That's one rule that can safely be broken, I guess


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> I was always under the impression that a DB waistcoat doesn't go with an SB suit outside of formal attire.


Not so.


----------



## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Canadian said:


> Balfour,
> 
> I was merely trying to say, if you're paying for it, don't get something you can get at Sears for twenty bucks. Get something different from the normal.
> 
> Tom


I really like your take on things, Tom. But I disagree with you on this one. No one who counts would mistake a three piece Savile Row suit from a three piece [insert name of crass fashion/budget brand OTR]. One doesn't need to indulge a penchant for novelty features to distinguish the two. And I speak as someone who cannot afford to buy from Savile Row all my tailored clothing!


----------



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Bjorn said:


> Have seen them around at least. That's one rule that can safely be broken, I guess





CuffDaddy said:


> Not so.


Bjorn - I think you may have clarified for me that the LAPELS should be similar, in that a notch lapel jacket shouldn't have a PL waistcoat, and vice versa. The PL on the coat in your photo would make sense with the DB jacket. In fact, I like that look and may have to do a suit like that on the next go-around.

CD - your photo didn't post, I'd love to see it. I still couldn't imagine a DBPL waistcoat with a SB notch jacket. Would seem out of place to me.


----------



## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Yes, they should probably match, the lapels. Maybe to be the same "level" of formality. Be coherent. 

As long as we can feel secure in ignoring the "rule" against peak lapels on an sb jacket  

I like peak lapels on sb jackets. The lapels in my pic are real pretty, IMO.


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Ian Carmichael in 3 piece suit with DB vest with lapels:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...b=13an67h8r&sigi=130a6rljm&.crumb=dnrcFD2KHbJ

and 3 piece with single breasted vest with lapels:

https://images.search.yahoo.com/ima...b=12thuo61n&sigi=12qe8nitl&.crumb=dnrcFD2KHbJ


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

From the examples I've seen, it looks like you should have fairly flat lapels on your waistcoat. I've seen some with a lot of roll, and it tends to make the front of one's suit look rather bulky.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

OK, I'll try again:


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Jovan said:


> From the examples I've seen, it looks like you should have fairly flat lapels on your waistcoat. I've seen some with a lot of roll, and it tends to make the front of one's suit look rather bulky.


Many/most waistcoat lapels are actually stitched on*, rather than rolled over as with a jacket lapel. There's no canvas to hold a roll, so rolled lapels only work on heavy-fabric vests anyway.

* To be clear, they are still a separate layer of material, and you can slide your hand under them from the notch side. But often they are not formed by folding over a portion of the front of the vest, but are added by stitching a double-sided lapel-shaped assembly to the inside edge of the chest. I'm doing a lousy job of explaining it, aren't I?


----------



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Bjorn said:


> Yes, they should probably match, the lapels. Maybe to be the same "level" of formality. Be coherent.
> 
> As long as we can feel secure in ignoring the "rule" against peak lapels on an sb jacket
> 
> I like peak lapels on sb jackets. The lapels in my pic are real pretty, IMO.


Got it.

I'm a big fan of PL on a SB jacket, however this commission is for what I should have ordered many moons ago, and something that I'm lacking in my wardrobe: a funeral suit (dark charcoal, 2 button, notch lapel). Figures the first staple is something I'm missing.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Jeremy Thorpe used to wear waistcoats with reveres. That is one reason I would not want to wear them.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I also hear that Adolf Hitler wore three piece suits! I'm not ever wearing them again for that very reason.

CuffDaddy: I've seen a Proper Suit customer wearing a four button waistcoat with rolled lapels. Lightweight worsted fabric. It's interesting looking, but not something I'd do myself. I'll see if I can find a picture.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Jovan said:


> CuffDaddy: I've seen a Proper Suit customer wearing a four button waistcoat with rolled lapels. Lightweight worsted fabric. It's interesting looking, but not something I'd do myself. I'll see if I can find a picture.


Oh, I've got some of those too. Mostly odd vests, though. I don't think they'd be a good combination with a slim cut, which is what I seem to recall Proper Suit selling. With heavier fabrics, a jacket with generous lapels, etc., the scale holds up, and it can add some depth to the layering.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Actually, Proper Suit sells any cut you wish (they've made suits for guys in DC who need to look more conservative), but their younger, more trendy customers are the ones who get photographed the most.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

OK, what they're _marketing_ , then.


----------



## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

if its a heavier or a bulky cloth, omit the lapel.
you dont need to add more layers of bulk.
see bluesmans post. #8


----------

