# Essential Ties



## bluesbrewsbbq (Sep 12, 2011)

As a young guy who is slowly building his professional wardrobe I was wondering what ties are essential? 

I've been following this site's advice to buy quality and to view it as a marathon not a sprint. So are there certain colors/patterns/brands you would recommend in that vein of thinking?


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

Welcome to AAAC. I have thought that this topic has needed a good thread for a long time.

About the only tie I see mentioned as 'essential' is a blue or black grenadine. They seem versatile, but I hardly ever wear mine. The backbone of my tie collection are repp ties; the regimentals being my favorites. A guy looking to stock up on some quality repps could do much worse than checking out Brooks Brothers. Toss in a knit or two for good measure (Lands End has some good silk knits on sale now), a couple of macclesfields (Sam Hober has some great ones), and a madder tie to go with your tweeds and I would say you have a very good start to a tie collection.

Finally, Will's advice on the subject, as always, is worth a look:

The Necktie Wardrobe, Part 1
The Necktie Wardrobe, Part 2
Necktie Wardrobe Expansion


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Navy silk tie with white polka dots. 

Would like to add navy solid cashmere or similar wool tie but I'm not sure it's exactly essential.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Two: predominately blue or red silk foulard ties with small patterns. They go with anything.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Regimental repps comprise most of my tie collection in various shades of red and blue. (Though this is by no means a professional wardrobe, I just wear them when the occasion suits it.) Apart from that, a couple of neat patterns including dots and whatnot never hurt.

Try to at least have a tie for each weekday so that you're not wearing the same ones more than once a week. They need rest from being knotted (which puts in wrinkles). They should be carefully untied in reverse (not the small end yanked out of the knot as so many guys do) and hung up on a tie rack or rolled up in a drawer. This is especially essential if you've invested in good quality ties from, say, Brooks Brothers or higher.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Striped ties are wonderful but I recall a WSJ story about the longest tenured salesman at the NYC Brooks Brothers store who described himself as a traditionalist and would never wear similar patterns, like a striped tie with a striped suit-"traditionalist's aversion to pattern-on-pattern.".
https://forums.filmnoirbuff.com/viewtopic.php?pid=8368


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

I can't say what would be essential for you, but my list is a couple of repp stripe ties, a handful of knit solids, two woven solids, and a macclesfield print. I think that covers all of the ground in tie formality. My list tends to be casual, since my wardrobe is more tweed jackets than suits. If you have to wear suit and tie often, I'd switch out a knit or two for subtle prints.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

My first bit of advice in starting a tie wardrobe from scratch would be to draw a line in the sand on quality. You really can tell a difference. For me, I've drawn that at the Brooks Brothers-Polo-Robert Talbott level. I won't buy made in China with ties. Stick with USA/Italy/England/France.

It does depend, as stated above, on whether you wear suits, blazers or tweeds primarily. Still, you'll want an arsenal for everything. That said, you still won't need very many (you will end up with far more than you need eventually, anyway).

I would start with a navy grenadine. You can wear it with anything. Build your tie wardrobe around blues. Not everything should be blue, but blue is the most versatile color for ties.

I would add a pindot and a solid knit.

Two regimental repps can satisfy virtually all your striped tie needs:

Argyle & Sutherland









And Brooks Brothers #1 in this colorway:









Get these in repp, not satin.

I would add in a couple of neat patterns (small repeating flowers or geometrics), probably go with a blue field.

Seasonal ties are more important, in my view, for fall and winter wear. A nice wool challis or Ancient Madder is perfect with tweeds. A solid cashmere is also nice. For summer wear you might pick up a linen or silk-linen blend tie, but this should be lower on your priority list.

If you wear tweed and/or sportcoats a lot, I would add in a woven emblematic of your preferred figural (dogs, pheasants, etc.).










Shop carefully, but high quality ties can frequently be had at substantial markdown. You can also do quite well thrifting (keep standards high) and on the thrift exchange. Shop the Style Forum Buying & Selling forum.

To get exactly what you want, check out Sam Hober. Keep your ties in the 3.25"-3.5" range (3.75" can be acceptable, but I think mainly with suits).

Addendum: I would also pick up a more formal tie (aka, wedding tie) at some point, like a Glen Plaid or Shepherd check:


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

Alan C - Great advice. Thanks for the tutorial

doghousereilly- Those ties from Sam Hober are beautiful.


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

Nice post Alan! One question, though. I have kind of shied away from blue because I wear a lot of navy suits and thought it looked kind of plain. For example, like wearing a Royal Marines regimental and a plain, navy suit. The textures contrast, but it doesn't seem like enough. What is your take on it?


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

My friend

I am sorry missed this. I agree with a simple , elegant silk tie that is navy blue, and one red, or Maroon. With a simple pindot.
Most definitely madder works nicely with tweed period.
FUI J Press is got someone that does their ties I always liked. Especially Madder/and the above 2. Can get cheap there.

The regimentals, you will need a couple that you like.Not a lot, unless you like that look.
Then take your time.
I am 60 and now unable to work, so gave a lot of beautiful ties to my son/friends.
My advice, with ties, that is the first thing I grab, before a shirt or what suit I wear.

My advice
Marinella
S Ricci
Rubinacci 7 fold.
Brioni
Drakes
when you have the money, you will appreciate the value of a tie, when you handle one from Maurice M. vs crappy BEN SILVER OTR ties! That cost more than the great ties I mentioned BTW
Any time I can hit Ben Silver, I am gonna.
They still have not addressed where their shirts are made!!
My feeling, imported now

Nice day kid


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## ballmouse (Jul 30, 2011)

1) A navy tie goes well with pretty much anything. 2) Don't get any ties with outrageous patterns. (Talbott Best of Class is quite guilty of this). 3) Try not to buy ties that are too wide (I would stick with ties between 3" and 3 5/8").


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

Great advice so far. I'd also add that tie purchases should also be connected to the other parts of the wardrobe. For example, I find that with some more "busy" jacket patterns like madras, gun check, and other bolder tweeds, having some solids or emblematics are crucial. Same if you wear patterned shirts. I also find that certain of my ties do or don't "feel right" with certain jackets/suits/shirts. I've been lucky enough to thrift a number of Hermes ties, for example. I only wear them with suits or a navy blazer because something about them--texture, design, etc--seems to clash with other types of jackets. They also, to me, don't feel right with a heavy oxford bd. I guess what I'm saying is don't buy your ties in isolation, especially if you're starting out.


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## bluesbrewsbbq (Sep 12, 2011)

Thank you so much for all the advice. I've lurked on this board for a while and the knowledge has changed the way I approach style/fashion. This board honestly makes a difference in so many lives.

One question...A lot of men my age (mid 20's) seem to prefer skinny ties. I was wondering what the opinions are as wearing these?


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

One thing to consider is the suits you have and/or intend to have. For years I split my suit purchases between navy and charcoal (I work in a conservative field) and had a mix of predominantly burgundy and navy ground ties. Having now purged almost everything but the navy ground ties I have learned that navy suits with navy ties don't always work. I'm now purging my suits and have gone with fewer but better suits and ties, working what I call "variations" on a theme with a gray suit and predominantly navy tie. Wouldn't work for everyone but that's how I've evolved over years. Your instincts are correct-you would enjoy having ten great ties far more than having 30 or 40 cheapies. Also watch the thrift shops but avoid anything with stains because usually they are forever and other than Tiecrafters in New York there aren't many places who can clean and/or press a tie without ruining its shape.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

bluesbrewsbbq said:


> Thank you so much for all the advice. I've lurked on this board for a while and the knowledge has changed the way I approach style/fashion. This board honestly makes a difference in so many lives.
> 
> One question...A lot of men my age (mid 20's) seem to prefer skinny ties. I was wondering what the opinions are as wearing these?


Ties should be in scale with your jacket lapels. Skinny ties = skinny lapels.

Skinny ties and lapels are in fashion. Don't bother buying good-quality stuff to be fashionable. The point of buying good clothes is that they will last. Fashion doesn't last. If you decide that skinny ties are part of your style, and that you'll wear them when nobody else does, then you're fine. Don't bother buying them because others do, though.

I'm a few years younger than you, and I like ties from about 3" to 3.5". I have some that are narrower, and one or two that are wider, but those were more or less all thrifted while I was looking for a style. If I were buying ties new, I'd look for 3.25," since that works with my frame and my lapels.

Wider than 3"-3.5" is too wide for me, and skinnier than that starts being very much a "skinny tie." Some on here prefer 3.75," and some seem to like 2.75." The wider of those is good for bigger men, and the skinnier makes for an early '60's look.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Ties around 2 7/8" - 3 1/4" will look equally well with lapels running the same size gamut.


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

While there's a lot of good advice posted here, don't get too overwhelmed. I think you really only need:
2 repp stripes
2 foulards
2 solids (navy and burgundy grenadines are a good choice)

If you stick to navy/burgundy/red based ties they will match navy and charcoal suits as well as blazers and most sportscoats. Having these basics will cover you for a wide range of needs including funerals, job interviews, weddings, cocktail parties, and work situations. As your wardrobe expands with time you can add some more things like emblematics, knits, wool/madder, linen, madras, bows, etc. as you like.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

BB has those thinner "University width" ties that I have enjoyed. It's for variety, as I would stay 3-3.25" as standard. Stay away from the thematic ties early on, as they can produce regret. A paisley or two wouldn't be a bad idea, BB again. Lots of regimental ties out there, which I think will still be good after the trend fades. Agreed that BB-quality (not outlet/346) should be the quality floor for your classics.


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

*From "Clothes and the Man" by Alan Flusser*

Since AlanC already wrote the post I'd imagined myself writing, there is only one thing left for me to do: quote Flusser. :icon_smile_big:

"There should be approximately twenty-five ties from which to choose...

1. Four solids in twill or grenadine: navy, burgundy, maize and black
2. Six repp
3. Four small-figured woven silk
4. Two club
5. Five printed silk: two English madder for fall; three foulards of varying sizes and scales for spring
6. Two wool challis
7. One linen solid and one plaid"

As has been noted, many can survive in today's workplace without ever leaving bullet one. But where's the fun in that?


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

The basics have been addressed. but what you may wish to consider is that what you like and enjoy is expressive of your personal design and style, which is really where we live.
You have to decide what will express your particular personality and ability on the day, everyday. And dress to meet your highest standard at all times. There is no way to avoid your expression of your own manner, and therefore, it must become an arrow in your arsenal of knowledge, skills, and abilities, so much the better to achieve your goals.
Why do people avoid ties? Lack of involvement with their assumed purposes, I think. Detachment from things has its place and is commendable, But presentation of oneself is also commendable and requires some reflection.
What has one from which to choose? What will be required on the day? How may one plan today for what is needed tomorrow? Circumstances vary.
Minimal is best for the less well to do and normal for the long term well to do. Poor people can't afford to buy much and wealthy people don't need to buy more as they already have what they need.
Movement is from middle to high.
You may determine where you lie on that line. If you need to buy a tie, you must be middle aspiring to more or low aspiring to be middle. Keep after it.
It is my pleasure to have more ties of more kinds than I can count: silk, cotton, wool, etc., in all manner of styles and widths, but what matters most is electing to wear the right tie with the right jacket, trousers sock, shoes, etc., on the day. We present ourselves in every moment. Positive impressions are best from the start. Negative impressions are difficult to overcome, if one may even be provided the opportunity.
Choose well who you are, and things are less difficult; Other choices, other outcomes.
Be your best self and be well in your pursuits,
rudy


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## Bermuda (Aug 16, 2009)

I, too, was going to recommend the Argyle and Sutherland from Brooks Brothers. It is definitely "Essential"


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

I concur with AlanC. 

Another thing to focus on: the sheen, how it reflects light, how bright it looks when you wear it. 

Traditionally, less reflective is more suited to daytime wear. More reflective more suited to evening wear, when not in formal or semi-formal dress. 

Few things look more vulgar than those satin ties worn at daytime they look like police lights hanging about one's neck. 

Before you buy, consider when you'll wear the tie. 

BTW, AlanC's a good guy to buy from on the buying and selling forum. A tie I bought from him a few years back is on my short list.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Bermuda said:


> I, too, was going to recommend the Argyle and Sutherland from Brooks Brothers. It is definitely "Essential"


+1. Mine is wearing like iron and ties well.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

filfoster said:


> Striped ties are wonderful but I recall a WSJ story about the longest tenured salesman at the NYC Brooks Brothers store who described himself as a traditionalist and would never wear similar patterns, like a striped tie with a striped suit-"traditionalist's aversion to pattern-on-pattern.".
> https://forums.filmnoirbuff.com/viewtopic.php?pid=8368


Wonderful WSJ story. Thanks for the link. Hard to imagine but the story itself is now 20 years old. Time flies.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

AlanC said:


> My first bit of advice in starting a tie wardrobe from scratch would be to draw a line in the sand on quality. You really can tell a difference. For me, I've drawn that at the Brooks Brothers-Polo-Robert Talbott level. I won't buy made in China with ties. Stick with USA/Italy/England/France.


I agree. Cheap ties can look fine but great ties are really noticeable, in a non-noticeable way, if that makes sense.

Like shoes.

You're better off with a cheap Costco shirt and an $80 tie than vice versa.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Amen to that. I've never had a cheaply made tie that didn't look like it. Express used to have ties made in the USA or Italy for around $50. They weren't quite the level of Brooks Brothers or equivalents, but they knotted well and had a good hand and drape. When they went on sale, they were an even better value. Ever since they outsourced to China, it really showed.


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## midatlantic (Feb 17, 2012)

I think some of the better-dressed presidents and senators (who think of themselves as mini-presidents) are good guides to basic, or at least moderately conservative yet nice neckwear. Look here, not just at the President, but (some of) those around him: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/29/obamas-first-seven-daysof_n_162377.html


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## midatlantic (Feb 17, 2012)

Here's a funny chart by somebody collecting information on the ties President Obama wears...hmm, odd...but anyway, they claim Pres. has been seen in 24 different ties; the basic choices in his first 100 days are interesting: https://www.neckofstate.com/2009/04/30/grading-obamas-first-100-days/


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

midatlantic said:


> Here's a funny chart by somebody collecting information on the ties President Obama wears...hmm, odd...but anyway, they claim Pres. has been seen in 24 different ties; the basic choices in his first 100 days are interesting: https://www.neckofstate.com/2009/04/30/grading-obamas-first-100-days/


That may be the greatest website ever... They've nicknamed the President's ties. I never thought I would regret not having the time to find a picture of Yakov Smirnoff on the internet.


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## midatlantic (Feb 17, 2012)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I never thought I would regret not having the time to find a picture of Yakov Smirnoff on the internet.


What?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Yakov Smirnoff is the comedian famous for Russian reversal jokes.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Jovan said:


> Yakov Smirnoff is the comedian famous for Russian reversal jokes.


True, but I was thinking of his _other_ catchphrase, "America, what a country."

That being said, "In Russia, necktie wears you" certainly applies to Dimitri Medvedev's oversize tie knots.


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## nerdykarim (Dec 13, 2005)

I don't post much, but since I have such a dissenting opinion here I thought I'd share it.

I agree with most of the points re: what constitutes essential designs/patterns, though my personal taste is for solid navy ties with different types of textures.

I disagree with most of the comments re: quality, though. For me, I've seen very undesirable "high quality" ties and very desirable "low quality" ties. I think that what really matters are idiosyncratic things like length, width, and thickness of interlining. As a result, I've had great success with ties that were made in China/out of polyester/machine stitched etc. that met my physical requirements (dimensions/thickness) and my stylistic requirements (generally navy + maybe some texture) that had little to no quality measures (high quality silks, hand stitching, etc.), then I'd choose that tie every time.

Also, I think that the shirt (in particular the collar of the shirt) is substantially more important than the quality of the tie. I'd rather wear a shirt with a collar that framed my face particularly well (Borrelli, for me) and one of those (I don't actually have experience with this brand but they're cheap, you can pick the dimensions pretty specifically, and I've seen that they make decent knots in waywt photos) than an inexpensive shirt with any expensive tie (take your pick).

That's my [dissenting] .02


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## david809 (Jul 1, 2003)

A quick couple of points. I used to buy J. Press ties as they look good but find them a bit unsubstantial. Especially their knit ties, they are too soft and constantly slip away from the neck. For a more "crisp" knit tie, go to Paul Stuart, which is slightly more expensive but much better. I have a lot of ties but find myself wearing a solid knit tie (navy, black, bottle green) a couple times a week.

Speaking of Paul Stuart, I am a fan of their wool challis ties. Good cold weather look with tweeds and flannels.

For neats, Drakes and Marinella, though the latter are a bit harder to find. The former have been popping up with greater frequency over the past five years in the States.

For striped ties, the aforementioned Argyll and Sutherland is a classic. You could do worse than the Irish poplin version from O'Connell's. Actually, O'Connell's in general has good stuff.

And finally, troll eBay for old Brooks Brother Makers ties. Inexpensive and have a solid inner lining, which makes for a good knot.

Re: tie width, as others have said, should correspond with lapel width. Don't worry too much about it, widths come in and out of fashion, I have ties that range from 3" to 3.75". 3.5" or 3.25" can be worn with most.


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## Billax (Sep 26, 2011)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Ties should be in scale with your jacket lapels. Skinny ties = skinny lapels.
> 
> Skinny ties and lapels are in fashion. Don't bother buying good-quality stuff to be fashionable. The point of buying good clothes is that they will last. Fashion doesn't last. If you decide that skinny ties are part of your style, and that you'll wear them when nobody else does, then you're fine. Don't bother buying them because others do, though.
> 
> ...


Your thought process - and advice - is mature and a pleasure to run across in a younger guy. I think most young men will make plenty of mistakes as they work toward the look that is right for them. You correctly separate style, fashion, and fad and then you go on to discuss frame. Excellent! Frame size, frame shape, and frame proportion are under-appreciated elements in selecting one's look. On a few occasions, I've discussed frame with guys. I have yet to find a male who completely likes the frame they have been dealt. Those whose "looks" I admire have - almost always - had to overcome what they consider to be a defective frame. Torso too long, torso too short, neck too skinny, neck bulges, shoulder-to-waist drop too large, shoulder-to-waist drop too small, legs too short, legs too stork-like, arms too long, arms too short, and on and on.

Apparel choices and looks that appear perfect on one frame can appear jarring on another. Clothing choices are, in part, designed to hide, obscure, and minimize defects in frame. An excellent post, Sir!


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Posted today by PTO, from Maurizio Marinella of E. Marinella:



> "A basic wardrobe of a smart man should have at least five ties. This should include one self-coloured dark blue; one for ceremonies with a blue background and small white drawings; one Regimental stripes with dark blue as the main color; and one lighter, in pastel hues, to be used in the morning. Considering my Neapolitan essence, I'd also suggest a more showy tie - bright sky-blue, bright yellow, or white. According to the rule, 'light ties should be worn in the morning, dark ties in the evening.' As for the striped ties, they should be proposed with a dark blue jacket and grey trousers."


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

3 1/4" is the "sweet spot" for me -- can be worn with just about anything.


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## nerdykarim (Dec 13, 2005)

AlanC said:


> Posted today by PTO, from Maurizio Marinella of E. Marinella:


Did you see the post after that one? I have a feeling it was inspired by my rant on the conflation of idiosyncratic and objective quality factors from post #34.



> A friend of mine recently asked me for my opinion on what makes a well-made tie, and the conversation got me thinking about quality in general. You often find men on various online forums debating which items are better made than others. Some even go through the trouble of making incredibly detailed hierarchal lists. There are objective and subjective criteria for judging quality, however, and I think one should be careful not to confuse the two.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Billax said:


> Your thought process - and advice - is mature and a pleasure to run across in a younger guy. I think most young men will make plenty of mistakes as they work toward the look that is right for them. You correctly separate style, fashion, and fad and then you go on to discuss frame. Excellent! Frame size, frame shape, and frame proportion are under-appreciated elements in selecting one's look. On a few occasions, I've discussed frame with guys. I have yet to find a male who completely likes the frame they have been dealt. Those whose "looks" I admire have - almost always - had to overcome what they consider to be a defective frame. Torso too long, torso too short, neck too skinny, neck bulges, shoulder-to-waist drop too large, shoulder-to-waist drop too small, legs too short, legs too stork-like, arms too long, arms too short, and on and on.
> 
> Apparel choices and looks that appear perfect on one frame can appear jarring on another. Clothing choices are, in part, designed to hide, obscure, and minimize defects in frame. An excellent post, Sir!


Thank you very much, though I must admit I still make quite a few mistakes -- my grasp of the theoretical elements of dressing well far exceeds my ability to be reliably well-dressed, because I'm still building a wardrobe.


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