# Um... Belgian Shoes?



## Trip English

I've been agonizing over this for a while. I had never seen shoes before until moving to Greenwich and now I see them all over. Just as people have taken to wearing driving mocs as casual shoes, these Mr. Casuals are common with just about every type of outfit. There's admittedly a tone of "secret club" with these that has diminished somewhat with Barbour coats and velvet tuxedo slippers. 

What do we think?


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## Jovan

No need to agonise. They are ugly. Don't buy them.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I disagree, though that website's presentation doesn't do them any favors.

I've tried to justify a pair (bottle green?) but I have too many similar shoes at the moment that rarely come out of the closet, one of these days though...

They also seem far more practical than velvet Stubs and Wooten type slippers, if that makes any sense.



My opinion carries little weight I'm sure, but I absolutely think you should get a pair Trip.


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## 32rollandrock

I have difficulty visualizing: Surely, there is something that is potentially striking--otherwise, Trip would not tease us so. I'm just not sure what it is. Off the top, I'd say these shoes are a bridge between Miami Vice and TNISL, or whatever the acronym is. By themselves, the shoes evoke, well, I'm not sure just what. But I think they are intriguing.


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## Trip English

I've found them to be staples of all the most enviable wardrobes 'round these parts. Same guys who wear beat up bit loafers as topsiders. 

Belgian Shoes it is.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Upon further inquiry, Luca isn't wearing _The_ Belgian loafers (from the Belgian Loafer store in New York) but is in fact wearing a Rubinacci version of the Belgian loafer, with a leather sole as opposed to the quick-wearing canvas one.

If you're alright with not having the absolute, alpha-authentic version it might be a wise choice, price appears to be roughly the same.


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## Trip English

From what I've read, Belgian shoes are as delicate as genuine drivers so I'm guessing that if me and them click I'll have plenty of opportunities to try out the Rubinaccis. For now it's the brown lizard calf Mr. Casuals. I suppose I'll decide between dark & medium brown on the spot. Unless the greenies start batting their eyelashes. Stranger things have happened.


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## CharlesFerdinand

For the record, there is nothing specifically Belgian about it (unlike, say, the waffles). I don't know how they got their name.


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## snakeroot

Cute little ballet flats, like Tory Burch with the buckle torn off.


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## C. Sharp

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/22/...tore-and-founder-of-belgian-shoes.html?src=pm



CharlesFerdinand said:


> For the record, there is nothing specifically Belgian about it (unlike, say, the waffles). I don't know how they got their name.


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## garden and gun

*Belgies*



Trip English said:


> I've been agonizing over this for a while. I had never seen shoes before until moving to Greenwich and now I see them all over. Just as people have taken to wearing driving mocs as casual shoes, these Mr. Casuals are common with just about every type of outfit. There's admittedly a tone of "secret club" with these that has diminished somewhat with Barbour coats and velvet tuxedo slippers.
> 
> What do we think?


Buy 'em they're comfotable, I have a black and brown pair.....you do have to be careful about not getting them wet and once you've worn them in you can return to Belgian Shoes or have a local cobbler attach a rubber toppie to the leather sole....go for it!


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## garden and gun

how about they're made in Belgian....it's stamped on the insole.


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## sjk

Evidently Madoff was a big fan as well.

www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-11/madoffs-meet-imelda-as-belgian-loafers-lauren-boots-are-sold.html

Remember what he did for quilted Barbour coats as well...


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## Patrick06790

I'm gonna save up for this version.


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## unmodern

Ugh, everything about this makes me gag---the ugly shoes, the 'in-club' status. This is like trad's version of Prada, or something.


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## Trip English

Patrick, those would do nicely for one of your character roles. 

And unmodern, I hear you, but the giddy appeal of private clubs and secret societies are hard-wired into most of us. Starts with tree forts or igloos in the yard and moves on from there. With so many natty details being sucked into the gaping maw of the blogosphere it's nice to have a few little contrivances left.


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## C. Sharp

Rule #1 of the con man, get your marks trust. Take on their clothing styles and social customs.



sjk said:


> Evidently Madoff was a big fan as well.
> 
> www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-11/madoffs-meet-imelda-as-belgian-loafers-lauren-boots-are-sold.html
> 
> Remember what he did for quilted Barbour coats as well...


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Patrick06790 said:


> I'm gonna save up for this version.


Flusser did a "what to pack on a two day business trip" piece for one of the men's mags in the 80s, if I remember right, he suggested two pairs of Belgian slippers, including the pair posted above.


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## 127.72 MHz

Jovan said:


> No need to agonise. They are ugly. Don't buy them.


Come on man,....How do you really feel? :biggrin:

They do seem a bit "girlie man."


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## Trip English

127.72 MHz said:


> They do seem a bit "girlie man."


Well, in all honesty, so do I. I guess I'll have to wolf-whistle at twice the dames to offset the effect.

And Jovan doesn't like them because you can't wear socks with them. Only you can, but you shouldn't.


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## hookem12387

I didn't like them until I saw them on the Rubbinacis (sp?), now I think they're fairly cool. Not as cool as those velvet slippers you mentioned, though (I dream of a pair with the scales of justice embroidered on, it'd crack me up every time I looked down)


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## Mossback

Vulgar.


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## mack11211

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Flusser did a "what to pack on a two day business trip" piece for one of the men's mags in the 80s, if I remember right, he suggested two pairs of Belgian slippers, including the pair posted above.


When I heard Flusser speak in NYC in March, he was wearing gray pair of Belgian loafers with his striped flannel suit.

I don't know if I'd wear them that way, but I would wear them.

It's a lightly constructed loafer with some contrasting trim.

I don't know why they provoke such strong negative reaction.


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## bd79cc

Personally, I like the Mr. Casuals in .


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## maximar

Though they are somehow effeminate,I think those shoes require plenty of sartorial balls.


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## Jovan

Trip English said:


> Well, in all honesty, so do I. I guess I'll have to wolf-whistle at twice the dames to offset the effect.
> 
> And Jovan doesn't like them because you can't wear socks with them. Only you can, but you shouldn't.


I don't like them because they look effete with the teeny little bows.


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## Trip English

Sartorial balls I got. No issue there. 

Bows? Tassels? Pennies? Bits? Potay-to potah-to.


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## Doctor Damage

Sounds like everyone's already decided they hate Belgian Shoes, so perhaps I should hold my breath, but those who dig around the company's website for more than 5 seconds might notice that the company sells conservative models with leather soles, such as this (heavily used) classic tassel loafer in suede:

https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/belgianvintage2.jpg/

They also, unlike many brands, offer their shoes in a wide variety of widths, which is a refreshing thing.


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## Dr. François

It looks like someone broke the heel off of a pair of women's pumps...Not in my closet!


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## Jovan

Trip English said:


> Sartorial balls I got. No issue there.
> 
> Bows? Tassels? Pennies? Bits? Potay-to potah-to.


Agree to disagree. You hate me wearing socks with any footwear that could possibly be worn without them!


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## eagle2250

LOL. Wearing those in Hoosierville could get a person mugged. Can you imaging walking the mean streets of Gary, IN, wearing a pair of those "daintily" styled slip-ons? Guess my desire to live is stronger than my desire to go styling!


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## cumberlandpeal

I have had these in inventory and rotation since the late 1970s when I first spied them on the feet of a very successful business friend who was always traditionally attired. I have since found that they are a staple with those who have made a pile and have nothing to worry about. Very cheerful shoes that have the advantage of provoking a certain type, the very people provoked by bow ties. I would not wear them in Gary, Indiana but then I would never have a reason to be in Gary, Indiana. I highly recommend the shoes, they are very comfortable. When you have them on you will be in a very small and worthy fraternity of traditionally minded swells.


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## bd79cc

Doctor Damage said:


> Sounds like everyone's already decided they hate Belgian Shoes, so perhaps I should hold my breath, but those who dig around the company's website for more than 5 seconds might notice that the company sells conservative models with leather soles, such as this (heavily used) classic tassel loafer in suede:
> 
> https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/belgianvintage2.jpg/
> 
> They also, unlike many brands, offer their shoes in a wide variety of widths, which is a refreshing thing.


That's a nice pair of suede tassels, DD.

DD opened the door by mentioning sizes, so let me ask: how do Belgian Shoes run, size-wise?


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## Orgetorix

Well, they look better than bit loafers. But that ain't saying much.


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## Jovan

You're weird, Org. I'd rather wear bit loafers (which I also dislike) than those.


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## Orgetorix

Jovan said:


> You're weird, Org. I'd rather wear bit loafers (which I also dislike) than those.


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## Jovan

That enterprising young man's skillful manipulation of aluminum foil is an inspiration to all.

DIY ethics are trad, right?


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## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> That enterprising young man's skillful manipulation of aluminum foil is an inspiration to all.
> 
> DIY ethics are trad, right?


^^ Haha! That's some yankee thrift right there. Who's feet are they (since the lack of socks means they can't possibly be yours)?


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## Jovan

Oh, they're mine. Contrary to Trip's accusation, I go without socks half the time. (Or I could be lying and just took the picture that way so his blood wouldn't boil. Your choice.)

You think the ladies are gonna love my sweet new kicks?


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## Pugin

I like them. I'll wear them when I'm older.


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## rsmeyer

CharlesFerdinand said:


> For the record, there is nothing specifically Belgian about it (unlike, say, the waffles). I don't know how they got their name.


Actually, they are made in Belgium.


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## WouldaShoulda

I can imagine Col Klink wearing them with his smoking jacket, fez and monical, warming up on the violin for his date with Frau Linkmeyer...


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## Saltydog

This is the way the fashion insanity of the 70's started. First they started with flair bottom slacks, and I bought them. Then they started making everything in double knit, and I bought it. Then came the paisley shirts and matching ties, and I bought them. Finally....the leisure suit. It's happening again. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Let us all come to our senses before it's too late. We should all say with one proud Trad voice: "Those are ugly shoes and I will not wear them!"


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## Trip English

Came very close to acquiring these today, but the wife brought the hammer down. Apparently I'm not to purchase these until I'm at least 60. I'm trying to get a grey hair clause inserted into the contract.

That being said, I fully acknowledge that the further you get from the bedroom communities of Manhattan the more absurd these shoes become, but you really wouldn't think a thing of someone wearing these to the bagel shop around here. 

And Jovan, those are some sweet bits. Jovucci?


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## Clay J

My father has quite a few pair of these, and wears them with suits and jeans alike. his are black lizard with leather soles and heel however.


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## WouldaShoulda

I just hope no one walks into Trip's shop with a man purse and fur combo!!


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## eagle2250

Orgetorix said:


> Well, they look better than bit loafers. But that ain't saying much.


LOL. Actually they look a lot like a couple pair of slip-ons that I have seen my wife wearing. If you have to spell success as "dainty" in design, I would rather remain a hillbilly failure and continue wearing my clod hoppers!  However, I do love my Bit loafers...just not as much as my Tassel loafers!


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## Jovan

Trip English said:


> And Jovan, those are some sweet bits. Jovucci?


You noticed the hand crinkled aluminium, I take it? One of the hallmarks of a Jovucci.


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## Sartre

I think that Belgians are more "preppy" than they are "trad," at least as I see the two styles represented on this forum. While there is much overlap between the two, there is a certain devil-may-care, go-to-hell aspect of much preppy clothing that I think some on this forum are less comfortable with. Only a generalization, of course. But I think the Belgians fall onto that list.

I think they are great, and would fit very nicely into your personal style, Trip. Your mistake was taking your wife along in the first place. :icon_smile_wink:


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## David J. Cooper

What about these Del Toros?



I wear boat shoes after my rounds but to wear these would be pimpin.


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## WouldaShoulda

David J. Cooper said:


> I wear boat shoes after my rounds...


That's the way.

I'd consider Venetians over Belgians (or Del Toros!!)


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## Trip English

Jovan said:


> You noticed the hand crinkled aluminium, I take it? One of the hallmarks of a Jovucci.


Most firms crinkle their foil in the orient. It shows in the finished product.


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## Trip English

Sartre said:


> I think that Belgians are more "preppy" than they are "trad," at least as I see the two styles represented on this forum. While there is much overlap between the two, there is a certain devil-may-care, go-to-hell aspect of much preppy clothing that I think some on this forum are less comfortable with. Only a generalization, of course. But I think the Belgians fall onto that list.
> 
> I think they are great, and would fit very nicely into your personal style, Trip. Your mistake was taking your wife along in the first place. :icon_smile_wink:


To use a term that hasn't always gotten a great reception around here, they're probably more WASP than preppy. They do evoke a lifestyle that is controversial outside of back country Greenwich and the Upper East Side. The effects start to diminish as early as Exit 44 on the Merrit Parkway, so I wouldn't expect most folks to see the allure from other vantage points.

And generally my wife prefers the way I dress when I'm doing yard work, so any high stakes clothes shopping is better done solo. I'm lucky she hasn't pulled a Jeeves with my white mess jacket.

And, not everyone can claim Bernie Madoff as a fashion icon:


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## C. Sharp

A few random comments based on this thread. If Belgians are seen as the last sartorial secret, the lifestyle bloggers are certainly doing their part to share the secret. If the negative reaction in this thread is indicative of were they are in their life cycle of popular acceptance you should have a few years of enjoyment before the appearance of saturation. Given the price it might never happen and others might say the style does not lend itself to mass appeal but the same thing could be said for "Reds". Given how old the brand is I can not say someone buying them for the first time today would be an early adopter but one would certainly be in a rarefied coterie, Bernie Madoff exclude. I think for some of us of a certain age Preppy and WASP are almost interchangeable. One might see a certain Slim Arron's quality to the Belgian shoe. I would add that it certainly has a Town & Country quality to it. I can not name how many times in years past I seen photo spreads of folks wearing them in the magazine. I recently read that the company makes somewhere between 500,000 and a million a year not big money compared to say a Brooks Brothers but their customers certainly have deep pockets and are dedicated devotees. I would an encourage the detractors to at least be familiar with them on the off chance you encounter them in the wild.


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## donk93953

I have a pair of Rubinacci's in purple suede with a dark blue piping. Perfect for cocktail parties....with socks and without (I prefer sock-less). Tan, grey, white, creme colored slacks and a blue blazer...you pick the shirt...pocket square, decidedly unsquarely stuffed in my blazer chest pocket. 
Men turn up their noses and raise their eyebrows. Women always compliment. 
To my way of thinking..."perfect."


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## cumberlandpeal

I am actually shocked at the response to Belgian Shoes. They have been around for quite a while, gentlemen. I sense a provincialism and lack of exposure here that i would not have imagined from this cohort. These shoes are found on traditionalists from London to San Francisco. I believe they were first sold in the middle fifties at Bendels in NY and have since been in their own shop on the east side of Manhattan. Trip may have hit it when he suggested they may be more WASP than trad. Most of the women I know have a pair somewhere


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## Drew Bernard

cumberlandpeal said:


> I am actually shocked at the response to Belgian Shoes.


I'm not surprised by the response at all, and I agree that Belgians are more "WASP" than "Trad." I have a pair but don't blog/tumblr/tweet about them.


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## WouldaShoulda

cumberlandpeal said:


> Most of the women I know have a pair somewhere


Now that makes sense!!


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## Walter Denton

The Belgians may be perfectly acceptable in a high fashion world but my standard for Trad is whether I would have worn any article of clothing or footwear on campus, on the Cape or at the office in 1965. The answer here is clearly "no".


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## Saltydog

I don't care to wear footwear that matches my wife's.


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## eagle2250

^^
LOL. The practical perspective: Belgian shoes clearly were not intended for many of us guys, with our pre-historic feet that seem somewhat the shape of a pizza wedge (facing to the rear)!


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## WouldaShoulda

Any velvet slipper or shoe with bows may be fine at the opera or hosting a dinner party. They were not made to be worn out doors and I don't think it's wise to do so.


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## phyrpowr

I think it's a cult, and the shoes are made from the skin of sacrificial victims. "Hey are those Belgians?" "Actually, these are Czechs, but, yes, the style is called..."


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## Ron_A

I first learned of this type of Belgian loafer on ADG's old blog (Maximinimus). While I actually like the look of them (as well as bit loafers, which I regularly wear), like bit loafers they seem to be somewhat divisive and elicit a lot of negative responses. (There is a thread linked below from 2007 containing 26 replies, many of which are similar to the ones in this thread.) A lot of people evidently find these shoes to be somewhat effeminate. Personally, I like them and believe that I would wear them (as I wear bits) in the right context. But, as I believe Trip noted, their appeal diminishes as you move farther away from a big city or "moneyed" area like Greenwich.


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## Sartre

Walter Denton said:


> The Belgians may be perfectly acceptable in a high fashion world but my standard for Trad is whether I would have worn any article of clothing or footwear on campus, on the Cape or at the office in 1965. The answer here is clearly "no".


Wow! Why stop at 1965? Why not 1925?


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## Jovan

That's the "golden age" for most young trads.


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## Saltydog

Jovan said:


> That's the "golden age" for most young trads.


Guess I should have appreciated it more when I was living it


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## Jovan

Oh, I'm just saying most trads who are young _at present_ tend to appreciate the '60s _Take Ivy_-like styles more. Myself included. (Though I'm not considered "young" by mainstream standards.)


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## eagle2250

Saltydog said:


> Guess I should have appreciated it more when I was living it


Fully enjoying and appreciating the moment...Alas, it seems that none of us did! And while we can only wish to be able to back for but a brief visit and a stroll down 1950's Main Street perhaps, it is not so much to re-experience the clothes, as it is to enjoy the simplicity of life that was...back in the day.


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## sjk

Ron_A said:


> I first learned of this type of Belgian loafer on ADG's old blog (Maximinimus). While I actually like the look of them (as well as bit loafers, which I regularly wear), like bit loafers they seem to be somewhat divisive and elicit a lot of negative responses. (There is a thread linked below from 2007 containing 26 replies, many of which are similar to the ones in this thread.) A lot of people evidently find these shoes to be somewhat effeminate. Personally, I like them and believe that I would wear them (as I wear bits) in the right context. But, as I believe Trip noted, their appeal diminishes as you move farther away from a big city or "moneyed" area like Greenwich.


ADG is back up and posting at Maxminimus (now has both a blog and tumblr). If you need another "shot of courage" you should definitely check him out to see how a Southern Trad Dandy pulls this look off.

I'm reminded of the scene in the movie Frost/Nixon where Nixon notices Frost's Gucci loafers with disdain, saying, "Men's shoes should tie." Nixon later a pair of loafers as Frost's parting gift, which he graciously accepts.


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## CMDC

Look what I found at one of my thrifts on Sunday!! Didn't grab 'em as they were a bit beat up, and not my size. They were more structured than I imagined given the discussion here--I'd never seen these in the flesh before.


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## hookem12387

I like 'em! But I also wear a lot of tassel loafers and pink shirts, so don't mind me


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## Jovan

eagle2250 said:


> Fully enjoying and appreciating the moment...Alas, it seems that none of us did! And while we can only wish to be able to back for but a brief visit and a stroll down 1950's Main Street perhaps, it is not so much to re-experience the clothes, as it is to enjoy the simplicity of life that was...back in the day.


I think that's an idea clouded by nostalgia rather than truth. There were a whole set of other problems present back then.


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## eagle2250

^^
Perhaps so, but back in the 1950's the problems confronting us seemed so much more straightforward and life moved at a pace that allowed us to put a little thought into the path of travel we might choose to follow, whether it be while wearing "Belgian shoes" or our beloved Allen Edmonds or Alden shoes! LOL.


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## sclemmons

I have admired these shoes forever but have never bought a pair. Compared to many of the shoes we see on the market, they seem more authentic somehow. I want to try a pair, and I may do that when my JP Tod's wear out.


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## hookem12387

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Perhaps so, but back in the 1950's the problems confronting us seemed so much more straightforward and life moved at a pace that allowed us to put a little thought into the path of travel we might choose to follow, whether it be while wearing "Belgian shoes" or our beloved Allen Edmonds or Alden shoes! LOL.


Things got to be slower then! You didn't have to start specializing so quickly, a college degree mattered, there were *gasp* jobs available. I have to imagine things _were_ simpler then in day to day life, though perhaps not internationally.


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## WouldaShoulda

hookem12387 said:


> a college degree mattered,


There were fewer women's studies degrees handed out then as well.


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## Jovan

... what does that have to do with anything?!


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## WouldaShoulda

Jovan said:


> ... what does that have to do with anything?!


I'm happy you asked...

See, Young Hookem here suggested that college degrees were more valuable 50+ years ago than today.

I countered that there may be a good reason for that.

Instead of preparing for employment in Bussiness, Engineering, Manufacturing, Medicine or Finance as more people were likely to do then, there has since been established English, Fine Arts and Women's Studies Departments.

Now while English, Fine Arts and Women's Studies may be worthwhile electives for anyone persuing Bussiness, Engineering, Manufacturing, Medicine or Finance, it is hardly something worth getting a degree in.

Even Theatre/Drama departments used to be clubs. Now you can get a degree in set design!!

Used to be if you wanted to be in theatre, you got yourself to Vaudeville and worked your way up honing ones craft.

I had a blast studying English Lit, but I would have been better prepared to enter Banking and Insurance had I majored in something serious like Business.


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## Orgetorix

I got a classical liberal arts education this decade, and it has proved far more valuable to me than any business degree would have. It taught me how to think critically, how to write clearly, and how to speak persuasively, among other things, and those skills have been more valuable than the more technical training I have picked up on the job. My salary is nothing impressive, but I'm a better person than I was before college. Can the average business major say the same?


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## nolan50410

I'd certainly recommend a liberal arts education for anyone seeking law school or perhaps a Phd program. I'm not sure they are as valuable today as they were 15 years ago. We have a large percentage of young people that are certainly well-rounded individuals, but they aren't particularly skilled in a certain area.

If we want to be competitive in the global economy, we will need to change the way we educate our young people. It wouldn't surprise me to see the average "Gen-Ed" requirements cut in half, which would effectively make our BAs the same as a BA and a Masters degree.


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## WouldaShoulda

Orgetorix said:


> My salary is nothing impressive, but I'm a better person than I was before college. Can the average business major say the same?


No, thier salary is undoubtably considerably more impressive!! 

Look, I'm in the same boat.

But my engineering friends can read and right far better that I can engineer and are not lacking in their humanity.


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## The Rambler

So you were an English major, Woulda? Did you cut class on the day they covered spelling?  I think English lit has been around as a major for a longer time than most of the majors you mention. Some feel that business related courses are more appropriate to trade schools than institutions of higher learning. (not me, but some).

Nowadays if you ask a student why they are in college, the likely answer is "to get a good job." In my day, the quick, superficial answer would have been "to get a good education."


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## Trip English

I can hear the trap door to the interchange creaking...


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## hookem12387

Trip English said:


> I can hear the trap door to the interchange creaking...


Ya, I apologize everyone!


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## Trip English

No apologies needed as far as I'm concerned. I'd join in the fray in the proper venue. Something tells me I'd have a hard time defending my Certificate in The Healing Art of Crystals, despite the fortune it's made me.


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## eagle2250

LOL. Interestingly, as this thread goes on, the appeal of those Belgian Shoes seems to be growing on mecrazy. Perhaps it's those cute little tassels? Jeez Louise, even decisions regarding the purchase of a next pair of shoes are becoming more complicated these days! 

PS: Thanks a lot Hookem...this just might be your fault!


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## WouldaShoulda

The Rambler said:


> So you were an English major, Woulda? Did you cut class on the day they covered spelling?
> 
> Nowadays if you ask a student why they are in college, the likely answer is "to get a good job." In my day, the quick, superficial answer would have been "to get a good education."


1) I was tutored under the new school banner of "spelling and grammar don't matter." All that did matter was how precious my compare and contrast was and that my sensitive ego and self esteem wasn't bruised!!

2) I fell right in between. It was unfortunate "Animal House" was released at the same time I was making applications.



The Rambler said:


> Some feel that business related courses are more appropriate to trade schools than institutions of higher learning. (not me, but some).


There were many Business and Teachers colleges before they became Universities. (Or Agriculture and Tech for instance)


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## cumberlandpeal

I received an advanced degree in English and taught for a few years before I entered business. I did not find the transition difficult and have had a successful career in a variant of investment banking. I have met many highly successful business people who majored in the Liberal Arts and many not so successful graduates of business schools. 

As a matter of possible interest, my career took off after acquiring my first pair of Belgians.


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## WouldaShoulda

cumberlandpeal said:


> As a matter of possible interest, my career took off after acquiring my first pair of Belgians.


Business or basketball, it always comes down to the shoes!!


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## The Rambler

A friend of mine, after his freshman year at Princeton, announced to his Philadelphia lawyer father that he intended to major in Art History. The old man threatened to cut off his funding if he didn't choose a major that was suitable preparation for the law - English, History, or the Classics. He chose the latter, and today he is a professor of Greek and Latin.


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## WouldaShoulda

Art History (18th Century) was a favorite course of mine. Especially with Winterthur and other examples nearby; we studied interior design and gardens as well as painting and sculpture.


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## WouldaShoulda

Issac Mizrahi has been wearing a different pair of these every day in this season of Project Runway Allstars.

Some of them look pretty good!!


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## Trip English

I'm finally going to pony up on Monday. I couldn't make it uptown in time today. I really think this is going to propel me to the next level. I don't know of what, but definately the next level of it.


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## WouldaShoulda

Let us know if they are comfy and "all that!!"


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## cumberlandpeal

Trip: You will love the shoes. They will suggest you put "dance pads" on the soles, topper type things. I have done it both ways (with and without) and I think with is better. The shoes will hold their shape better if they have a bit more structure on the soles. Without the pads the soles will naturally conform to your feet and will be influenced by your gait.


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## Trip English

Good to hear, thanks. I wasn't able to make it in time Monday. They keep banker's hours. Hopefully some time next week I'll be grabbing them. I'll go for the dance pads. I think I'd go for dance pads anyways just based on the name.


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## Trip English

What is done










cannot be undone.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays

HERO.


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## oldominion

I'm with TBS...If I had the scratch I'd pony up tomorrow.

A friend's dad is about the coolest 80 year-old I've ever met. Was not at all surprised when he showed up at one of his grandson's lacrosse games wearing Belgians. 

Not sure how the wife would react if I did buy a pair...For a three spot and change, well...One does wonder about the price point, as I've heard--from Maxminimus and others--that they're almost disposable and real Belgian veterans hope to get a couple seasons out of them, no more...


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## Trip English

I'm wearing them almost exclusively at work and parties and probably won't take them more than a block or two for lunch. I'm sure they'll last long enough to justify the coin.


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## eagle2250

^^ 
The look of your Belgians is absolutely stunning.
...and might we assume that the feel of the Belgians on ones feet is as if your feet were being cradled within the comforting confines of ones mother's bossum? Do the New York, NY, purveyors of these shoes take telephone or online orders for them? :icon_scratch:


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## WouldaShoulda

Refined.

So, are they like butter??


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## AlanC

Trip English said:


> What is done
> 
> https://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd59/tripenglish/Belgians.jpg
> 
> cannot be undone.


I like those a lot, although they seem pointy at the tongue (whatever you call that area).


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## Doctor Damage

oldominion said:


> One does wonder about the price point, as I've heard--from Maxminimus and others--that they're almost disposable and real Belgian veterans hope to get a couple seasons out of them, no more...


You _can[i/] buy them with a leather sole..._


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## Trip English

I don't feel quite qualified to render many verdicts, but an initial reaction is certainly in order. 

1. Yes, they are like butter. Visually I was drawn to the hard-bottoms first. They look more shoe-like and less slipper-like, but that's at eye level on a shelf. On the foot you can barely tell the difference. And it's on the foot that the soft bottom becomes the only real option. There are thousands of variations of hard-bottom loafers out there. These are a special shoe and the soft bottom version is more comfortable than my LL.Bean slipper mocs. 

2. The durability question scared me most of all before buying. The MSRP wouldn't scare me on any shoe, but to hear them described as somewhat disposable certainly cools the enthusiasm. While I've only worn them for a day and a half, I can't imagine them being any less durable (and these are the soft soled versions, mind) than driving mocs. If you own and wear those you'll get the idea. They also look good when they're worn in. Slap some rubber pads on the bottom instead of a traditional re-sole and they've got a new lease on life. I expect years of faithful service, but I'll certainly report any feedback to the contrary. 

3. Overall looks are very subtle. If you give them your full attention they're certainly a unique shoe, but I wore them the entire day before my wife asked me why I didn't get them. When I pointed to my feet she was sort of shocked. I think that's the moment she came to terms with them. I think she expected it to have the same aspect as wearing capezios or something. They're just loafers to the casual observer. 

You'll certainly see them turning up on WAYWT and if anything interesting happens I'll post here. Otherwise I'd highly recommend them to anyone comfortable enough to give them a shot.


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## Trip English

Thought I might add a pic of the sole for anyone interested:



















There's sort of a layer of leather, almost like a coating, that surrounds the sole. When this begins to wear through a rubber pad is applied and theoretically re-applied for as long as the uppers hold. My understanding is that other minor work can be done to the uppers as well such as repairing seams.


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## Doctor Damage

Trip English said:


> There's sort of a layer of leather, almost like a coating, that surrounds the sole. When this begins to wear through a rubber pad is applied and theoretically re-applied for as long as the uppers hold. My understanding is that other minor work can be done to the uppers as well such as repairing seams.


Belgians are turn shoes, i.e. made inside out and reversed, then lasted. The rubber pads are topy, although I'm sure Belgian Shoes calls them something else...


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## Topsider

Trip English said:


> I can't imagine them being any less durable (and these are the soft soled versions, mind) than driving mocs.


Let's hope so. I've had a pair of driving mocs from Lands' End for years now, and they're a little scuffed up, but still going strong.


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## WouldaShoulda

Those soles are very slipper-like.

Guess that's why one needs "dance pads!!"


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## Tilton

I've been eyeing a pair of these for months. I think if I saw them in the flesh in a color I liked, I couldn't resist. I see them at Neiman's but they're always blue, orange, or animal print. Anywhere that I should, um... avoid... shopping in DC in order to continue resisting? Although a pair of LHS' may take the cake on a in-the-mood-for-new-shoes day... practicality, you know?


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## Trip English

I really don't know who sells them other than Belgian Shoes. I know that there are some Italian outfits that make them and have been prominently featured on menswear blogs. I didn't even know Neiman Marcus had them. The one by me doesn't.


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## Epaminondas

I expect a good portion of their desirability for some has more to do with their function as some type of socio-economic shibboleth than actual comfort, but 
I’d certainly wear those before I’d wear bit loafers or, the worst of the worst, kiltie loafers.


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## Trip English

That may be the case for some. They are, however, as comfortable as anything I've put on my feet. Socks included.


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## C. Sharp

Will has the Italian versions https://store.asuitablewardrobe.net/suedehouseshoeswithcontrastingtrim.aspx

Although I am not sure why one would not go with the originals.


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## Trip English

Here's a little recon I did on a pair of well loved Belgians. These are on about year 5 as far as my information goes. These may not be the first set of dance pads...


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## Mississippi Mud

Trip English said:


> That may be the case for some. They are, however, as comfortable as anything I've put on my feet. Socks included.


Sell that somewhere else. I have little doubt that you own nary a pair of socks.


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## Topsider

Wonder if the patch changes the "slipper-like" feel?


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## Trip English

^Nope.


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## eagle2250

Epaminondas said:


> I expect a good portion of their desirability for some has more to do with their function as some type of socio-economic shibboleth than actual comfort, but
> I'd certainly wear those before I'd wear bit loafers or, the worst of the worst, kiltie loafers.


Actually a visit to the www.belgianshoes.com website, seems to indicate design options incorporating tassells and/or kilties!


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## Jovan

Personally, I'd wear bit loafers or kilties before Belgian shoes...


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## Trip English

I know you would.


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## Doctor Damage

Trip English said:


> They are, however, as comfortable as anything I've put on my feet. Socks included.


That's because - despite the hype - they're slippers, not shoes! How they made the jump is probably lost to history, although wealthy female WASPs in the 50s and 60s wore them around their summer houses (just as men wore penny loafers) as indoor-outdoor footwear. Among men, it would have been gay men who made the jump. Whatever the case, it was an extraordinary marketing success, however unintentional, to get people to start wearing slippers as shoes and to perceive it as a stylish act rather than something a de-institutionalized mental patient might do. Of course, I still want a pair.

(That should earn me some new enemies!)


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## C. Sharp




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## Trip English

Doctor Damage said:


> ...to perceive it as a stylish act rather than something a de-institutionalized mental patient might do.


De-institutionalized?? Are you saying that an _escaped_ mental patient wouldn't have the panache?


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## WouldaShoulda

Trip English said:


> De-institutionalized?? Are you saying that an _escaped_ mental patient wouldn't have the panache?


What is that??

Some kind of wise crack??


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## eagle2250

Doctor Damage said:


> That's because - despite the hype - they're slippers, not shoes! How they made the jump is probably lost to history, although wealthy female WASPs in the 50s and 60s wore them around their summer houses (just as men wore penny loafers) as indoor-outdoor footwear. Among men, it would have been gay men who made the jump. Whatever the case, it was an extraordinary marketing success, however unintentional, to get people to start wearing slippers as shoes and to perceive it as a stylish act rather than something a de-institutionalized mental patient might do. Of course, I still want a pair.
> 
> (That should earn me some new enemies!)





Trip English said:


> De-institutionalized?? Are you saying that an _escaped_ mental patient wouldn't have the panache?





WouldaShoulda said:


> What is that??
> 
> Some kind of wise crack??


:crazy: LOL...and the case justifying the purchase of my first pair of Belgians, builds and becomes ever more persuasive! The promised levels of comfort afforded by the shoes is...well, seductive o) I suppose. How long must I delay in achieving the level of angst sufficient to push me over the top? :icon_scratch:


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## Epaminondas

C. Sharp said:


>


I'm sure I should know who the guy on the right is, but I can't ID him. I will say - the way he is sitting, he looks, well, a bit prissy - not exactly doing much to counter the effete allegation regarding Belgians - got a picture of Gen. Patton or some member of Seal Team 6 sporting a pair?


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## C. Sharp

I believe it is Laurence Harvey. Vintage photos of people in Belgians are a bit scarce. It is merely an example of one.

FWIW-Churchill had a nice pair of Albert slippers


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## Doctor Damage

Trip English said:


> Doctor Damage said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...to perceive it as a stylish act rather than something a de-institutionalized mental patient might do.
> 
> 
> 
> De-institutionalized?? Are you saying that an _escaped_ mental patient wouldn't have the panache?
Click to expand...

ha ha!


ep said:


> I'm sure I should know who the guy on the right is, but I can't ID him.


Lawrence Harvey is the man with Mia Farrow and starred in the original Manchurian Candidate with Frank Sinatra (excellent movie, highly recommended).


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## Doctor Damage

Trip, how are the Belgians doing? Did you get the topy put on?


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## Trip English

They're doing remarkably well. Against the advice of the salesperson I've worn them strolling in the city a few times and have worn them regularly to work. So far they still look and feel fairly new. From my past experience I'd say they're proving to be as robust as driving mocs (though the leather does feel paper thin). I believe that a second green suede pair is in the cards for sometime this summer. 

The salesperson at the store said that they don't usually apply the pads right away. They said I should wear them in and when the sole has started to wear through to come back for that and any repairs needed. Apparently most of the shoe can be re-sewn and even the bow can be replaced if needed.


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## hardline_42

Doctor Damage said:


> Trip, how are the Belgians doing? Did you get the topy put on?


I think, as a courtesy to Trip, we should refrain from using the word "topy" in connection with Belgian loafers. They're "dance pads!"


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## Trip English

Yes yes! I like the term "dance pads."


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## hookem12387

The gig is up, folks. RUN:


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## Earl of Ormonde

Man, those Belgian things are uber-ugly. They remind me of the leatherette carpet slippers old men used to wear in England when I was a nipper!


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## Earl of Ormonde

hookem12387 said:


> The gig is up, folks. RUN:


Tartan carpet slippers- £9.99:
https://d2i2bhijigiae3.cloudfront.net/tartan-slipper/006-red.gif


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## Tilton

A little more substantial offering:

Someone buy these so I don't have to hear them begging me to click BIN every couple of days.


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## WouldaShoulda

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Man, those Belgian things are uber-ugly. They remind me of the leatherette carpet slippers old men used to wear in England when I was a nipper!


-the bow!!


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## cumberlandpeal

Earl!! They are uber-ugly to some eyes but to my personal tootsies they are the warm bothy to the frozen shepherd. After a day on the hill, slip off the clunky Trickers and slip on the Belgians. Heaven.


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## Doctor Damage

Tilton said:


> A little more substantial offering:
> 
> Someone buy these so I don't have to hear them begging me to click BIN every couple of days.


Good heavens! Those are the old Church's Kingsley tassel loafers which someone mutilated by cutting off the tassels. What sort of person would do that? Probably the sort of person who kicks dogs.


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## Doctor Damage

hookem12387 said:


> The gig is up, folks. RUN:


That just means the fad will soon be over and it will be safe to wear them again outside New York. It's now safe to wear my Burberry check shirt again, although it was a long decade of waiting.

By the way, has anyone tried to make a turn shoe? Kinda fun thing to do on a rainy Sunday afternoon, if you have a sewing machine. They will look crude and unwearable, but you will have learned something.


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## Miket61

Doctor Damage said:


> That just means the fad will soon be over and it will be safe to wear them again outside New York. It's now safe to wear my Burberry check shirt again, although it was a long decade of waiting.


If you wore a Burberry check shirt in Atlanta, people would assume you were in the hip-hop music industry. The Nova Check is very popular, to the point that all manner of more "stylish" clothing is made with fake material. Burberry won't make legitimate material available to other designers, nor will they sell garments that meet this particular group's needs, so there is a lot of _hommage_ to Burberry here that unfortunately earns it no reveue.


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## leisureclass

Thought everyone might enjoy this sighting of Belgians in the wild:


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## Pink and Green

Didn't take the time to read all 6 pages, but you have all gone mad. These are horrific crimes against feet and fashion.


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## P Hudson

Pink and Green said:


> Didn't take the time to read all 6 pages, but you have all gone mad. These are horrific crimes against feet and fashion.


Haven't seen you around for a while, P&G. Nice to have you back to make such an astute comment. I guess the point at which style becomes costume differs depending on locale, personality, etc. I think these shoes may be acceptable in the plainest iterations, but not on my feet.


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## eagle2250

^^
LOL. Perhaps it all comes down to comfort. Some of us search all of our lives for that perfectly comfortable pair of shoes and the results of our respective searches can yield arguably bizarre results on occasion. In the interest of full disclosure, I have not yet bought a pair of Belgians. However, I also cannot discount the future possibility of such action. They appear stylishly crafted to the contours of ones feet; they are light as a feather; they are claimed to be as malleable as a second skin, whose sole's flexibility convincingly argues with the wearer's sense of reason that they are are enjoying that rare childhood luxury of walking barefoot through lifes struggles. Can we ask any more from a shoe? 

PS: Echoing P Hudson, welcome back Pink and Green!


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## shoemaker

Are these Belgian's made on the Turn Shoe construction with a felt substance between the sole and the inner sock ??


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## Doctor Damage

shoemaker said:


> Are these Belgian's made on the Turn Shoe construction with a felt substance between the sole and the inner sock ??


You are correct.


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## shoemaker

In the late 60's & 70's we used to purchase the same construction as these from a company called something like "Deboshere", (Can't remember the spelling) from Belgium, The sole was made from the same leather as the uppers, I thought they packed up, or has somebody else revived them ??


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## Dieu et les Dames

One day I'll pony up for a pair of these.


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## eagle2250

Speaking as one who ponied up for a pair shortly after this thread was initiated, permit me to say the Belgian Loafers are nothing more than a pair of over priced house slippers and while comfortable, they are not the most comfortable to be had! The circles in which they can be safely worn within are distinctly limited (LOL). There are better, less expensive options out there.


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## FLMike

eagle2250 said:


> Speaking as one who ponied up for a pair shortly after this thread was initiated, permit me to say the Belgian Loafers are nothing more than a pair of over priced house slippers and while comfortable, they are not the most comfortable to be had! The circles in which they can be safely worn within are distinctly limited (LOL). There are better, less expensive options out there.


I would wager a bet that yours are the only pair in Osceola County!


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## Dieu et les Dames

Eagle, did you purchase the Mr. Casual? It would be nice for future reference to know how they fit. I think I've read in the past about going down a half size?


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## Doctor Damage

eagle2250 said:


> Speaking as one who ponied up for a pair shortly after this thread was initiated, permit me to say the Belgian Loafers are nothing more than a pair of over priced house slippers and while comfortable, they are not the most comfortable to be had! The circles in which they can be safely worn within are distinctly limited (LOL). There are better, less expensive options out there.


I was in NYC in 2005 and checked them out, and thought they were cool, but didn't buy a pair. I was back in 2014 and intended to buy a pair, but decided against it. I think Eagle is right, they're basically wildly expensive house slippers and of little practical use. Better to get a pair of Albert slippers, which at least have a usable leather sole!


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## eagle2250

Dieu et les Dames said:


> Eagle, did you purchase the Mr. Casual? It would be nice for future reference to know how they fit. I think I've read in the past about going down a half size?


Sorry for the delay in response, but somehow I managed to miss your question earlier. The shoes fit me true to size. The loafers are buried in a shipping box in the garage or in the flex room (my future home gym, I hope). As I recall, they were the Mr Casual (had a small black leather bow on the vamps) and were the brown calf option. The shoes are very lightly constructed and in my experience garnered several snickers, on almost every occasion I wore them out of the house. I believe that was on just two occasions. While I might have been able to endure the ridicule of the steel mill crowd in NW Indiana, more importantly Belgian loafers are not made to hold up the the rigors of outdoor wear (IMHO)! Hope this helps.


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## Dieu et les Dames

Very helpful. Thank you!


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