# Finest Non-Cuban Cigar in the World?



## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

There hasn't been a thread about cigars in a while, and I was curious what people would nominate for the finest non-Cuban in existence, (past or present.) My personal favorite is the Rocky Patel Vintage 1990 Torpedo, first enjoyed on the excellent recommendation of a staffer of The Tinder Box in Haverford, PA:










It's not the cheapest cigar in the world, but it's not the most expensive either. It's complex and tasty and I'd defend it's honor against all kinds of pricier options.

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## Leon (Apr 16, 2005)

As you are in Oxford, have you checked out the cigar shop on the High?



No Cuban embargoes in the UK!

Leon


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

I pass the place you mention every day but haven't been inside yet. I brought two 50 count humidors loaded with Cubans and legal stogies over here so I feel that I should make a dent in my current supply before buying more. The damned Value Added Tax makes buying Cubans here more expensive than employing legal loopholes from the States.

I'm still curious about thoughts on non-Cuban cigars, despite the attainability of Cubans. There are certainly some great options out there. I wonder if any of our Oxxford/Kiton sporting luxury aficionados will maintain that smokes like the Fuente Fuente Opus X are significantly better than my vote, the Rocky Patel Vintage series, in part because that rarest of rare non-Cubans costs more than twice as much.


p.s. triple digit posts, hooray!

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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I dont see what the big deal is with Cuban cigars...Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars are just as good, but sence Cubans are illegal, they have an added mystique...but whatever...I deffinately enjoyed the Rocky Patel Vintage 1990...but still for my money, my favorite is the FF Opus X...but then again, I prefer a stronger cigar, if you smoke some that were released around 2000 or 2001 right now, they lose their "bite" but still maintain a good level of strength (I prefer mine fresh out of the box)...for a smoother and slightly less complex (although still fantastic) smoke, try a Padron 1926 Maduro...Another very good, and much more affordable cigar is the AF Hemingway...all of the sizes except for Untold Story (another great full bodied smoke) and Between the lines (Legendary, albiet a bit milder) are readily available for anywhere from $7-$20 per stick (that is if you're paying retail prices for them )...There are so many good readily availabe brands out there; Padron, Rocky Patel, CAO, La Aurora, Davidoff, Dunhill, ToraÃ±o, etc...But all in all, from 858 to Don Carlos to AÃ±ejo to Opus X...Fuente is truly your best cigar manufacturer, worldwide...hands down...

...at least, that's the way I see it...

*****
"When you wear lapels like the swellest of swells, you can pass any mirror and...
*smile*
...You've either got or you haven't got style!!!"​


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## tmt (Oct 31, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by The Gabba Goul_
> 
> I dont see what the big deal is with Cuban cigars...Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars are just as good, but sence Cubans are illegal, they have an added mystique...try a Padron 1926 Maduro...Fuente is truly your best cigar manufacturer, worldwide...hands down


GG, nice list and well said. Padron and ToraÃ±o are tied for first in my humidor, but maybe I haven't given Fuente's selection its due.
I'll have to perform an exhaustive series of tests and get back to you.

Thanks for the excuse.
t

What is it to be a gentleman? Is it to be honest, to be gentle, to be generous, to be brave, to be wise, and, possessing all these qualities, to exercise them in the most graceful outward manner? Ought a gentleman to be a loyal son, a true husband, an honest father? Ought his life to be decent, his bills to be paid, his taste to be high and elegant, his aims in life lofty and noble? -- Thackeray.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

I think that is just wrong. Cuban cigars are still the best available, just as French wine is the best available. That is not to say that there are not other good options, but I can't think of many things as good as a well aged Cuban Ramon Allones or Partagas. I will say that Dominican cigars are better made on average, but the terroir of Cuban tobbacco is far superior.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> I think that is just wrong. Cuban cigars are still the best available, just as French wine is the best available. That is not to say that there are not other good options, but I can't think of many things as good as a well aged Cuban Ramon Allones or Partagas. I will say that Dominican cigars are better made on average, but the terroir of Cuban tobbacco is far superior.


Hmmm...I can understand what you're saying, but let me explain myself...If you can get your hands on a pre embargo H Upmann or Partagas...you've got yourself a very good cigar...and that isnt to say that there havent been some absolutely legendary Cuban cigars throught the ages (Dom Perignon, Don Candido, Etc...) but all in all...comparing apples to apples, there is no Cuban cigar that really lives up to the legacy that surrounds the Island South of Miami, at least not anything in recent times...the Cuban cigars which are pretty much universally regarded as the top five are (if memory serves me correctly) Esplendido,Hoyo DC, Bolivar Belicoso Fino, Monte 2, and Trinidad...I'll take a FF Opus X over any of those cigars any day of the week...but once again, it all comes down to personal preferance...and for my tastes there really is nothing better than a Fuente product...and FWIW...I have it on good authority (but still wouldnt say that I'm 100% sure it's the truth)that many Cuban cigars have Nicaraguan leaves mixed in their filler...which makes sence as Pinar Del Rio isnt all that big, and isnt used exclusively for tobacco growth...now...if you really want to try some unbelievable cigars, try an unreleased Fuente (BBMF, eXtacy, maduro Opus, etc...) the absolute best of the best is the 13 (the original release...not the Casa Fuente version )...

*****
"When you wear lapels like the swellest of swells, you can pass any mirror and...
*smile*
...You've either got or you haven't got style!!!"​


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

I agree that Fuente is probably the best producer of cigars in the world. The production is flawless. I just think they do not have the complexity of many cuban cigars today.

As far as the best Cubans, I think the Trinidad is a nice cigar, and the Monte 2 is a classic, but my tastes lie outside those rankings. The Hoyo and Punch cabinet selections are consistently good, and they age better than anything else. 

I have spent some time in Cuba, and they do grow an absolute ton of tobacco. I would not doubt that they do use some mixed filler, but I don't know if this is just in the lower lines or not. The main thing that separates Cuban and Dominican is the wrapper. The amount of good Dominican wrapper grown is so miniscule, that it is impossible to produce the quantitiy of good cigars that the Cubans do. Nicaraguan tobacco is not bad, but it does not stack up to the DR and Cuba. Even the Padron special edition from 2000 was slightly disappointing to me.

One of the reasons that people with limited access to Cuban cigars think that it is a bunch of hype is because they are so Cohiba obsessed that they never have anything that is like a old school Cuban cigar. Cohibas are good, and they need no aging due to the second fermentation process. What you need to smoke is a Hoyo Epicure, a Punch Royal Selection or a Partagas 898 unvarnished. Then you will be smoking a real Cuban cigar.

I know you live close to San Francisco. Where do you go to smoke cigars? I feel like I can only do it at home now with the number of tobacco nazis we have.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> I know you live close to San Francisco. Where do you go to smoke cigars? I feel like I can only do it at home now with the number of tobacco nazis we have.


Home is about it...there are a handful of public places where one can go to smoke in this area...but most of them arent so great...Yet another reason why I love Las Vegas...something very gratifying about being able to light up in public without worry of being ticketed...Are you in located in the Bay Area as well? have you ever been to La Salles in Piedmont? Aside from the private clubs in SF, that's just about your best smoking room in the area...

*****
"When you wear lapels like the swellest of swells, you can pass any mirror and...
*smile*
...You've either got or you haven't got style!!!"​


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

I still have never had an Opus X, so I can't refute what anyone's said. I agree with your list of the top Cubans, Gabba, and similarly would take a Rocky Patel over any of them, despite the prestige of sticking one of those in your mouth. I do have a Montecristo #2 saved up for my birthday, so I guess I buy into the Cuban hype as much as anyone. 

I'm surprised C.A.O. has only been mentioned in passing, as they're the company often hailed by reviewers as the rest of the world's best answer to Cuba, with an ad campaign highlighting the same factor. I'm a torpedo man, and a nice Brasilia Torpedo is a truly world class smoke.

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## anonterm (May 2, 2005)

My current favorite is the Ashoton Cabinet Torpedo.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

I don't think Cubans really deserve the premium they command over other top tier cigars. Besides who wants OFAC coming down on you! I don't smoke as many cigars as I used too but when I do I find the Dunhill Valverdes a pleasant smoke if not the best non-Cuban. 

Karl


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

My vote goes to Padron Anniversario '26 in any wrapper. The '64 Anniversario in Belicoso is a close second. These two will cost you a small fortune in London and in my opinion beat out most of the cubans. Best to order from the states. And I still stand by JR Ultimate XX Maduros for an affordable cigar with shades of Cuban.


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Leon_
> 
> As you are in Oxford, have you checked out the cigar shop on the High?
> 
> ...


I stopped into the shop yesterday, hoping to finally acquire a Fuente Fuente Opus X, to test gabba and Matt's confidence that they are the best. They had a few sizes, but the cheapest was Â£25, as opposed to just $25 in the US, couldn't justify the expense. Maybe one day...

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## Lenny2112 (Nov 19, 2005)

Hey guys! My current fave is the Astral 1992. Very smooth. I have also been on a Macanudo Crystal kick lately as well, usually when I'm out at the strip clubs!


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

I love cigars. My dad smoked them whilst I was growing up and I associate the aroma with my boyhood. Dad smoked mostly cubans, the romeo et julieta. I like them, but I also always loved the montecristo torpedo and the cohiba churchill or double corona.

The only non cuban wrappers Ive ever been drawn to are the Padrons in a veriety of types.

____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> ...just as French wine is the best available.


Even my Dad, Froggie to the bone, admits that Wines from other places like the USA and Australia have outstripped French wines now that those vineyards have hired Frenchies to apply their craft to the incredibly powerful grapes from these regions.

I think Cuban cigars are superior also, its all about the wrapper isnt it? Problem is with the huge demand and our almost nonsensical desire to keep punishing Cuba, the black market knock offs are hard to spot for two generations brought up unable to get Cubans easily.

____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## hodgson (Nov 24, 2005)

The FF Opus xXx (also known as the power ranger) or the Padron 1964 Anniv and Padron 1926 Serie cigars are the finest non-Cubans.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

With the cold weather setting in I will be bidding a fond adieu to my favorite pastime of a weekend post breakfast cigar in the backyard (I can't smoke in the house). I guess an occasional trip to the Macanudo Club in NYC is in order!

One of these days I will get to try an Opus X.


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## DressPRMex (Jun 20, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> I think that is just wrong. Cuban cigars are still the best available, just as French wine is the best available. That is not to say that there are not other good options, but I can't think of many things as good as a well aged Cuban Ramon Allones or Partagas. I will say that Dominican cigars are better made on average, but the terroir of Cuban tobbacco is far superior.


I don't agree. I live in Mexico, where Cuban cigars are readily available, just like any other type. My personal favourites: Jamaican Macanudos and Dominican Davidoffs.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DressPRMex_
> 
> Jamaican Macanudos


[]...now those are some good smokes...if you can find them...I dont much care for Dominican Macs...but the Jamacian ones, are probably the best cigar that General tobacco ever produced...

*****
"When you wear lapels like the swellest of swells, you can pass any mirror and...
*smile*
...You've either got or you haven't got style!!!"​


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

Opus X but they are also the most overpriced cigars on the planet. I'm actually never sure I've made a great purchase or if I have just been robbed by a smiling cigar salesman.

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Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

The problem is that when you look at the MSRP of FF Opus X cigars...they are actually not that unreasonable...it's these cigar merchants who get only a hand full of boxes in store per year who then jack the prices through the roof (I've seen as high as 200% markups)...

*****
"When you wear lapels like the swellest of swells, you can pass any mirror and...
*smile*
...You've either got or you haven't got style!!!"​


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## PartagasIV (Dec 13, 2005)

Few Dominicans can match the complexity of Cubans. The Dominican sackriders say that the terroir of Cuba isn't what it used to be; that the quality of product isn't what it used to be.
The issues of Cuban output during '99-'01 have been resolved. While the Padron Anniversarios and Fuente Opus X's are fantastic, they are so rare and often, so expensive that it doesn't justify the purchase. I can get a box of Cuban Partagas Serie D#4's for less, age them six months, and unwind with one of the great vitolas. The majority of non-Cuban cigars are just so one-dimensional tasting--strength at the expense of complexity, or complexity in such a mild smoke I'd rather chew Nicorette.


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