# Samuelsohn factory tour



## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Next stop on the rolling factory tour was a personal favorite, Samuelsohn. I also hit Jack Victor, which is a much larger shop than I had imagined! 
That report will be a few days away.

I spent a few hours getting a tour and I have learned a great deal from the 5 or 6 factories I have visited, added by conversations with a few tailors from small shops. There is so much to learn!

"It is an engineered garment".
The production manager at Samuelsohn used the term to describe the shops that are pumping out huge numbers with a great deal of automated machinery and it really does seem to fit that segment of the market well. 
Mr. Samuelsohn describes his jackets as being made in the traditional style, but with more machines today than when everything was hand stitched, reiterating, that the philosophy behind the construction has not changed.

The planning of fabric consumption and layout at Jack Victor and S Cohen was so tight that at the end of a row of seamstresses, a woman stood and trimmed the fractions of an inch of excess cloth that may be found at the finished seams before the jacket is sent to be closed.

At Samuelsohn, a person stands at a table and hand measures the garment, marks and trims the cloth with shears, a fair bit more cloth has been used in this process allowing room for movement during manufacture, this is not present in the "engineered garments". At Jack Victor, I was shown a sewing machine that trims off excess as it sews! The operator runs the seam through and anything more than a predetermined amount is trimmed simultaneously.

Samuelsohn fits into a niche group, they are not Oxxford when it comes to hand work or cutting the cloth one way, but they certainly are not Jack Victor either! Production at Samuelsohn is a touch over double that of Oxxford, but a fraction of the out put seen at Jack Victor, Canada's second largest suit maker (exact numbers were not given).

While most of the work is done by seamstresses at standard sewing machines, not automated machines as I saw in the two larger factories, there are a few automated stages and a few hand sewn stages. Pockets are done on the same machine that Oxxford introduced this year, it is a sight to see as it gets cut and stitched in a series of moves but Mr. Samuelsohn agrees with mike Cohen and informs me the new machines are so far ahead of anything seen before, it really does not make sense to do anything else between completely hand sewing it or using a full stage machine such as these. A similar version of the machine is used to do the breast pocket welts. he describes the generation of machinery before what Oxxford and Samuelsohn are using as, well, lets say lack luster!

There are many stages where hand work comes into play, the collars are hand sewn, a team of three do nothing but collars, one basting and the other two hand sewing, arm holes are closed by hand, also hand pressing. There are some hand sew buttons holes! But not all. I believe it is special order available on some MTM only.

Samuelsohn rates in my books as the best buy for the dollar. If I were to rebuild my wardrobe I think I would stick to fewer makers and team it up Samuelsohn, Oxxford, a few Kiton, some bespoke and leave all the rest behind. 
I say that now, but I love my Borrelli and my Corneliani too.
So much fabric, so little time!

Basting the canvass into the suit body:

https://imageshack.us

Hand closing the arm holes:

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Hand sewing the collars:

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Hand measuring and trimming:

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Master tailors walk the floor checking on pieces:

https://imageshack.us

Basting the liniing into the jacket:

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Hand pressing:

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Every jacket is inspected before leaving the shop:

https://imageshack.us


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

love it, love , love it all. What more can I say. My zaidie still had Christian Dior suits made by peerless that still stand the test of time. It is amazing to see the behind the scenes at a major piece of Canadiana like Samuelsohns.


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## jsprowls9 (Jun 24, 2005)

I am shocked!

Getting to walk the floor of a manufacturing facility is highly unusual in American plants. It requires a long-standing relationship and a business reason for being there (e.g. courting a contract, or as a consultant/facilitator).

How was it that you were given these tours? Color me jealous, as I'd love to walk the Jack Victor floor!


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Great stuff. Let's hear about this pocket machine. Is it for the pocket lining/inside, or do the two companies use it to put on the breast pockets. It sounds like a tremendous gadget if it can do the second option well.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

This -- _this_ -- is why I love AAAC so much! Thank you so very much once again for your valuable contributions to both us _and_ to the menswear industry as a whole...for showing us this side of the quality factor can only spread good things about Kiton, Oxxford, Samuelsohn, et al. Wonderful!


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

Fantastic work! My samuelsohn is probably my most loved suit.


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

Terrific photography (of course) and reporting, my friend. As noted, this kind of thread makes membership in AAAC so valuable. The details you've presented have made me have new respect for my one Samuelsohn suit--a gray glen check that I hadn't thought so highly of previously (although I seem to like wearing it)! :icon_smile:


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Iammatt,

Firstly, the machines in the pictures are not the machines from Oxxford and Samuelsohn but what is going on is a little clearer in these pictures.

The slit is cut, a pre sewn the flap is attached and all the seams around the top of the pre made flap are done in a series of movements while the fabric is held in place on a vacuum table.

A different machine is required to do the breast pocket welt.
Same concept, different set up. I do not recall seeing a second machine at Oxxford. Just one doing the pocket flaps.

Mike Cohen was very clear that many machines had been tested before the move was made. Every seem or stitch is considered,
Is it better done by hand, sewing machine or other? 
The decision to perform a task by one method or another must be based on best performance/value added to the client.
I did not get the numbers, but if takes a X man hours and is not better, maybe worse, the customer is better served by doing this task another way.

Mr. Samuelsohn agreed that nothing does pockets like this process,
Either you go for hand sewing because you want to say it was done by hand, to you go this route. Nothing in between.

I can tell you if you are a traditionalist, you can sleep at night with these two shops.

This represents the most automated process at Oxxford and Sameulsohn.
Having seen shops that do 275,000 sleeved units a year, they are luddites compared to the high volume shops! I say that in a very positive way having seen what machines can do.

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

jsprowls9 said:


> I am shocked........ as I'd love to walk the Jack Victor floor!


Jack Victor, and his son Alan are very proud of their work.
They have not only managed to stay in Canada when most are leaving, but expand by almost double in the last few years.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Did you discuss any of their work for Paul Stuart?

Thanks for the report. I love Samuelsohn.


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

Which stores carry samuelsohns in the New York/New Jersey area? Thanks.


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## johnnyblazini (Feb 24, 2006)

Once again you prove yourself to be a highly appreciated addition to the forum... Thank you...!

Btw, when are you going to Italy next? Who is on your wishlist?


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Excellent piece.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Allen,

Thanks for the explanation. It is incredible how specific some of those machines are. Is that a laser that is used to position everything perfectly? Very cool.


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

Allen, I think that the subtext I took out of your piece is that (a) there is more machine work in products we normally see as completely hand sewn, along with more hand work in what we normally see as a machine-made product than any of us thought, and (b) the difference is price between Oxxford and Samuelsohn, for example, may not really accurately reflect anything like a corresponding difference in quality of construction. I guess the one area in which a true and observable difference may exist is in the quality of the wool used in the two companies. Can you comment on that aspect of the work? To keep prices down, for example, does Samuelsohn generally use lower grades of wool? I suppose to some extent this must be true, but what is your impression?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Very impressive photos. Thanks for sharing them.


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

Fantastic post and photos, zegnamtl! Just makes me appreciate all that more better men's clothing.


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## DressPRMex (Jun 20, 2005)

*Very cool, post*

As always, great to read you Zegnamtl!


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Roger wrote:

...... (a) there is more machine work in products we normally see as completely hand sewn, along with more hand work in what we normally see as a machine-made product than any of us thought, 

(b) the difference is price between Oxxford and Samuelsohn, for example, may not really accurately reflect anything like a corresponding difference in quality of construction. I guess the one area in which a true and observable difference may exist is in the quality of the wool used in the two companies. Can you comment on that aspect of the work? To keep prices down, for example, does Samuelsohn generally use lower grades of wool? I suppose to some extent this must be true, but what is your impression?

~~~~~


I think there is a noticeable difference between Oxxford and Samuelsohn. Samuelsohn is great suit but I could not look any one in the face and the differences are slight. Oxxford is a better built suit and deserves the price difference. But, Oxxford is about twice the price. You are getting what you pay for at both levels.


I have come to change my opinion on much of the hand work debate. If Oxxford or Samuelsohn use a seamstress and a sewing machine, is it a sin?

I do not think so any longer. 

A machine that blasts a dart into the front of my jacket in a few seconds flat is not so appealing to me, but seeing a seamstress close up the long seam of the arm on a sewing machine is no longer all that offensive to me!

I think we need to regroup our terminology to better reflect the changing times and processes used.

As for fabrics, well, I listen to Manton and some of the others speak about fabrics and I realize that I know about the square root of some of these guys!

But I do love looking at the bolts and touching the fabrics (it must drive them nuts, but I really need to touch it).

Depending on where you look, and what the shop has ordered, but based on the fabric room, I would say Samuelsohn starts out just a notch below and then moves up to the same place as Oxxford but, at a point, Oxxford reaches much further up the scale. But this was not the impression I had when I visited the old Oxxford store. It was only at the factory that I realized there were so many great fabrics available to them. I think the average guy who walks in to buy an Oxxford is more likely to be a super 110s kind of business guy and hence that is what we see and feel about Oxxford and Samuelsohn.

The brown Mason jacket in the lapel picture is in a very, very beautiful cashmere! Cohen has his work cut out for him, he has a great jacket (the Mason) and great fabrics that most people do not know about. I bet sales would soar if more people could try on the jacket in that picture.

The same can be said about Samuelsohn, at least from my experiences. At Harry Rosen, they carry a certain type of cloth, a certain cut and they are pigeon holed to a degree and so is Oxxford. I have a Sammy in linen that is just gorgeous and I have never seen such a jacket at Rosen. 

They tend to bring in those fabrics on the bigger Italian names. 
I wish the retailers would let these companies blossom a bit more than they do.

The same goes for suit bodies.
When I walk into a shop and try on a Sammy or an Oxxford and I find it too square or too padded, the rep pulls out some other line and says try this! I use to walk away thinking , this house is too this or too that. Samuelsohn has over a dozen different suit bodies, when did a salesman at Rosen ever ask one of us to try several different cuts with in the same house? I had one guy at Rosen who did this with my Canali MTM, I tried on three different jackets, it was the first and only time.

I think Oxxford and Samuelsohn have to work on the salesmen and how they handle this. The current trend is for stores to push clients to MTM. Harry Rosen now sells a full 20 percent of its suits as MTM! 

They (retailers in general, not just HR, I am not slagging HR) stock less and still get the sale at a slight premium. Well, now they can stock a few more sample suit bodies since they have cut the number of actual suits on the rack WAY down!

I just never realized how little of each house we get to see when we walk in to a shop, and how badly some of these house have been pigeon holed to suit the retailer.

OK, end of rant!

I need a martini!


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

I just never realized how little of each house we get to see when we walk in to a shop, and how badly some of these house have been pigeon holed to suit the retailer.

I think that often we forget that this is a business. The salesman mighteven get some bonuses or perks from a rep if they sell more of one type of itm or another. I cannot image going into harry's or another similar type place and trying on 6 different styles of samuelsohn plus who knows how many of other firms and then deciding on an item. I think from a business perspective you want the client to coem in, spend as short a time period as is reasonable, buy the item and then go to the next client. From an inventory perspective I think it is prohibitive to have that many items for each size. 

If I gained anything from your post it is the greying of the lines. Oxxford is not 100% better then samuelsohn and then brant or what have you. Each maker tries to carve out a space to run their business and provide a product. Each ofthem are masters at many levels. It seems to be more of a question of marketing, and skill then ability to make the product.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Yellman,

I do understand it is a business, and they do want you out as soon as possible, but at a certain point, a disservice is being done to the store, the house who made the goods and the client.

They want you out with the jacket on your back.
if you walk out with out nailing the sale, there is no assurance that you will return.

I know that when I walk into Uomo, they have a very small tightly edited selection. I need to understand their style and see if it works with my own.

But when you walk into a big shop, like HR or BG and he slips a jacket on your back and says, lets try another house because he only has one or maybe two cuts, everyone has lost as he tries to grab a sale in a few seconds or less (so to speak).


One thing I really like about Uomo, I walk in and ask to see a jacket.
Albert says, no! I won't sell you that, it is not right for you.
The jacket is still on the rack 6 months later and he still does not want to sell it to me! Because he knows it is not the best purchase for me in the long term. 

Why can't shops be more up front in range of what they have compared to what the house offers? It means nothing to you and I, we are light years ahead of the average guy, but the practice bothers me none the less when I begin to realize the impact it may have on the house making the goods we like.

I hope I have converyed my point well, I am rushing, friends are over for dinner, now I really have to go and make some martinis!


have a good night,


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## kaiiwa (Oct 15, 2006)

It nice to see they are staying in Canada.:icon_smile:


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

zegnamtl said:


> Yellman,
> 
> I do understand it is a business,
> 
> ...


Enjoy the martinis.


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## fullgrain (Jan 5, 2007)

> I think from a business perspective you want the client to coem in, spend as short a time period as is reasonable, buy the item and then go to the next client. From an inventory perspective I think it is prohibitive to have that many items for each size.


I can understand this, but I have to say I don't *understand* it... I walk into a Nordstroms, try on an AE (depending on the Nordstroms, there may only be one or two models.) It doesn't fit, the salesman has nothing to add, I say, well that's that AE sucks, and never think of them again. I go into an AE shop try on every single last in 3 different size/width combos and think, hey, X type AE is the shoe for me.

Even when the guy at JAB flat out told me I wasn't going to find the right cut for me there, he knew and was willing to show me the differences between the lines. Maybe I will check out that seersucker in a size too small this summer as he suggested. Or recommend them to a younger colleague...


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Iammatt wrote:

Thanks for the explanation. It is incredible how specific some of those machines are. Is that a laser that is used to position everything perfectly?

~~~~~

Yes, if you notice the marks on the fabric in the second picture, it is an older machine, the laser uses marks that are almost cross hairs. Once the operator says go, the vacuum table holds the fabric still and off it goes.
Oxxford uses a much newer, more advanced and cleaner machine that this one, but it is really tough to see what is happening with their machine compared to this one.

This is from a supplier, it is not my pix.
This machine sews nothing but key hole button holes that are made to look like hand sewn button holes! They also have machines to sew the button on that makes it look like hand sewn, and pick stitching machines and on and on! This is an investment for the shop, there are dozens of different machines that do a single task.

https://imageshack.us


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

fullgrain said:


> I can understand this, but I have to say I don't *understand* it... I walk into a Nordstroms, try on an AE (depending on the Nordstroms, there may only be one or two models.) It doesn't fit, the salesman has nothing to add, I say, well that's that AE sucks, and never think of them again. I go into an AE shop try on every single last in 3 different size/width combos and think, hey, X type AE is the shoe for me.


This works, though, _only_ if the potential customer is willing to do this. In all my years of selling shoes and suits, precious few people would do this. Some were too rushed, some just impatient, and some thought it was ridiculous to try on more than one model or size. The vast majority of customers believe "I've been a size *x* for over twenty years!" and believe it applies to every shoe; moreover, they have no concept of lasts. While my coworkers and I tried to explain the concepts of sizing and lasts, I'd bet money that only about ten percent even really listened and took it to heart. I had one lady _yelling_ at my that I was just some huckster trying to sell her something she didn't want, even though (1.) we DID have the size and color she initially asked for, and (2.) I tried to convince her to go up because her toes were permanently molded into a perfect triangle, with the second toe serving as the point (I am not exaggerating one bit...it was shocking to say the least). Most people don't really enjoy trying on clothes, and they certainly don't want to be bothered by those damned knowledgable pesky salespeople who are trying to find the right fit for them!

(Yes, I know not all salespeople are like this, but when one finds one who is, the customer should latch on and never let go.)


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## Yellman (Aug 25, 2005)

fullgrain said:


> Even when the guy at JAB flat out told me I wasn't going to find the right cut for me there, he knew and was willing to show me the differences between the lines. Maybe I will check out that seersucker in a size too small this summer as he suggested. Or recommend them to a younger colleague...


I think at the end of the day, does the salespeerson want to make a potentially quick buck, or build a relationship. I was speaking with Saul Korman of Korry's (a local store) and he indicated how times have changed. People do not come in and buy a bunch of suits each year, add to their wardrobe and so on. It is almost an impulse buy for a specific need that people come in to buy, or based on a good price. It is not adding to the wardrobe with a specific product or byuilding a wardrobe it is just buying clothes.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

Sammy is my personal value favorite and where I would go if my clothing purchase were budgeted. Good look, good fabrics, very good construction.

Perry


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## fullgrain (Jan 5, 2007)

Yellman said:


> I was speaking with Saul Korman of Korry's (a local store) and he indicated how times have changed. People do not come in and buy a bunch of suits each year, add to their wardrobe and so on.


Yellman, I think you may be onto something here. As consumers in general, we may be contributing to the deathspiral of poor service. I know I bargain hunt and shop online as much as they next AAer, but when I do find a good service provider after a long hunt, I try to cultivate that relationship. My drycleaner will not press my lapel rolls flat, and I can pretty much drive past my tailor's shop with a suit purchase and wave and he'll tell me whether it's worth him doing work or not. Sometimes I'll bring in something a seamstress could do cheaper just to touch base.

One of the things I do appreciate about this forum is its appreciation for artisanship and artisans. When I reach that stage that I'm ready for MTM or bespoke, I'll be looking for a longterm relationship.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Yellman,

You are very right.
Mike Cohen and I had a discussion about this and he described the two generations of clients, that was exactly my father and I!

My dad had a closet full of the the same things.
I have a closet full of different things.

I will walk in a buy a shirt or a jacket and try it for a while just to see if I like it. My father would have never thought of such outrageous behavior!

My dad was the only father on the bock to travel to Europe for work when I was a very young boy. My youngest daughter has seen more of the world than my mother, we bring back things and styles from our travels, we have the net at our fingers to explore the world and the shops of the world.

It really is a different market place.
That is part of why I think the stores need to diversify, even if only in a few samples and better education of the sales staff, to keep the client loyal.
My dad would have only left his shop if they started to deliver jackets with three sleeves!

But maybe Saul is right and we represent such a small section of the market place that it is just not worth it.

I am just happy I discovered the Talbot suit body, 
it is now my favorite from Samuelsohn.



Yellman said:


> I think at the end of the day, does the salesperson want to make a potentially quick buck, or build a relationship. I was speaking with Saul Korman of Korry's (a local store) and he indicated how times have changed. People do not come in and buy a bunch of suits each year, add to their wardrobe and so on. It is almost an impulse buy for a specific need that people come in to buy, or based on a good price. It is not adding to the wardrobe with a specific product or byuilding a wardrobe it is just buying clothes.


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## johnnyblazini (Feb 24, 2006)

zegnamtl said:


> My dad would have only left his shop if they started to deliver jackets with three sleeves!


Triple sleeve jackets are underrated...


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## lawgman (Mar 28, 2005)

zegnamtl, 

Any chance you will post a comparison of your tours of the larger more automated factories? It would be interesting to see a comparison between S Cohen and Jack Victor and the quality/value one may have over the other.


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## Taxler (Oct 22, 2006)

johnnyblazini said:


> Triple sleeve jackets are underrated...


An extra sleeve is the suits' equivalent of the extra button sewn to your shirt; you never know when you might need a spare.:icon_smile_big:


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Lawgman,

I am working on a thread to that effect.
If it remains at the minus 328.3 degrees as they predict for the weekend,
I should get it done and post.



lawgman said:


> zegnamtl,
> 
> Any chance you will post a comparison of your tours of the larger more automated factories? It would be interesting to see a comparison between S Cohen and Jack Victor and the quality/value one may have over the other.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Another great report Zegna, thanks!

We have a great retailer of Sammy in H. Stockton here in Atlanta. High value per dollar is my take.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Nice post zegnamtl.

I like your reasoning too.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Zegnamtl,

You should visit the Edward Green and Lobb facilities next.


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## Young Pro (Jun 2, 2005)

zegnamtl said:


> I am just happy I discovered the Talbot suit body,
> it is now my favorite from Samuelsohn.


Great post Zegna_mtl!

I also discovered the Talbott model awhile back, I now have a great suit in a LP120's in it, and a navy blazer on order from Harry's which should be in any day now.


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## Reptilicus (Dec 14, 2004)

Quick question...How is Samuelsohn pronounced? Sun or sawn?


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

The factory tour is great! I just ordered two Samuelsohn suits. The owner of the store did not recommend MTM. He ordered a stock pattern with one or two adjustments and will make the remaining alterations in the store. The shop has excellent tailors so I am fine with that. He said that even with MTM the suit would probably need some alterations and he did not feel the extra cost of MTM would be worth it for me.

After shopping around a lot Samuelsohn seems quite competitive for the quality offered at the price charged.


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

Thank you so much for posting this. After reading your report and seeing the images I went to a local retailer (Bethesda Custom Tailors) and ordered two Samulesohn suits, a Samuelsohm blue blazer and grey slacks. They obviously put a lot of care into their work and the suits seem like they will be a good value for the money and last for years.

It is posts like this that make AAAC such a great place to visit.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

healinginfluence said:


> Thank you so much for posting this. After reading your report and seeing the images I went to a local retailer (Bethesda Custom Tailors) and ordered two Samulesohn suits, a Samuelsohm blue blazer and grey slacks. They obviously put a lot of care into their work and the suits seem like they will be a good value for the money and last for years.
> 
> It is posts like this that make AAAC such a great place to visit.


My Pleasure, it was a very interesting year for factory visits.

I would agree that it is a very good bang for the buck.
I just picked up a really beautiful car coat from Samuelsohn. I will try to post some pictures this weekend.


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

zegnamtl said:


> My Pleasure, it was a very interesting year for factory visits.
> 
> I would agree that it is a very good bang for the buck.
> I just picked up a really beautiful car coat from Samuelsohn. I will try to post some pictures this weekend.


I would love to see a photo of it. The owner of the shop that sold me my Samuelsohn today is wearing a beautiful linen and wool Samuelsohn suit that he said is better for the 90 degree weather we have in Washington today. It fits him perfectly. I've learned the importance of a good tailor along with a good maker. I need both. Or bespoke but that's too much money for each and every suit, at least for me.


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## CodeRed (May 31, 2007)

Is this suit of the same quality as those that you saw made in the shop? Thx.


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

CodeRed said:


> Is this suit of the same quality as those that you saw made in the shop? Thx.


I expect they are the same quality (they aren't marked as seconds). Unfortunately STP doesn't have my size.


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## CodeRed (May 31, 2007)

Just pulled the trigger on it. Seems like a good value. Thx again.


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

CodeRed said:


> Just pulled the trigger on it. Seems like a good value. Thx again.


Which one did you buy?


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## CodeRed (May 31, 2007)

The pinstripe


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

Let us know how you like it. They all look nice. The price is excellent.


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## CodeRed (May 31, 2007)

Will do. This site is proving to be very helpful!


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## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

Does AAAC have a guide to the various Samuelsohn models? In particular I am wondering how the 'Austin' model STP usually carries compares to the shape and fit of Paul Stuart's Samuelsohn line.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

cgc said:


> Does AAAC have a guide to the various Samuelsohn models? In particular I am wondering how the 'Austin' model STP usually carries compares to the shape and fit of Paul Stuart's Samuelsohn line.


I won't be a big help here, I do not have a PS, they are not available in canada. I have been building a log of the Samuelsohn suit bodies. They are labeled on the fabric tag as SB xxxx

Here is a cut and past from an old post, that I try to update each time a try on a new jacket.

This is a cut and paste from a past post.
I hope it helps. I have not mentioned all the suit bodies present and past, just those I am familiar with.

You may find the suit body on the fabric tag as

SBxxxxx

I have the following suit bodies

James
Albert
Talbot
Troy
Thomas
Como
Andrew
Graham
Alton
Trophy

Brad (car coat)

This is a quick rundown, as mine are, they may be available in other configurations too.

The Talbot:
My new favorite from them, very soft shoulders, light weight. Lapels are 3 1/4 inch.
I have it in a fully lined and 1/2 lined, I jokingly call it "Kitonesque" because of the very soft shoulders. I was shooting in a park today and a student asked me what I was wearing, the first thing he commented on was the shoulders, then the quality of the linen. The finishing of the inside seam is very well done with some little features that are a little different.
This jacket is undarted but is far from being a sack suit and has good waist suppression.

Perhaps Chris and Alex can comment here, but I am led to believe it is difficult to get nice suppression without the help of a quick fix dart or two.

I have this in a fully lined linen/wool mix,
again with the soft shoulder and light weight.

The Troy:
In the same sort of direction as the Talbot.

The Graham:
A Zealander wool sports jacket, patch pockets double vent, very slight padding, nice little details like the buttons on the patch pockets on one version. 
I have two Grahams and only one has this. This is my favorite fall or winter jacket (along with a cashmere Borrelli).

The James:
The classic conservative cut. 
Slightly full, 2 button, center vent double pleated, padded.
Mine is in 130s summer weight and is a great warm weather suit.

The Andrew:
This is a suede sports jacket, padded, patch pockets and center vent.
Great fall weekend jacket. Undarted, but that may be a result of the suede fabric, I am not sure. Moderate waist suppression.

The Albert:
Soft, good waist suppression,
It is at the tailor as the dry cleaner ruined the cuff on the left arm,
so I don't know how else to describe it with out looking at again.
I really like this cut. I posted about wanting to buy a suit a ditch the pants a few months ago (and everyone advised against it) it was this cut, very nice. I don't recall if it is darted or not. They way we speak so often about our clothes, you would think I could remember that, sorry Roger.

The Como:
I have a suit, 3 BT CV and a jacket, 2 BT CV, in this cut.
Older style in the firm, square shoulders sense.
The jacket is in a Deep Henna, great fabric, slight boxy cut compared to the newer suit bodies, I don't want to say a sack suit,it is darted, but more in that direction that the Albert or the Talbot.

The Thomas:
I think this is fairly new, this is a sports jacket with 3/4 lining, nice details in the way the lining is done at the end. Shoulders are softer than the James but more built up that the Talbot. When I fell the shoulders they don't have a thick pad, but they sit on your shoulders with a more padded fell than the Talbot (if that makes any sense). I posted a few pictures when I first got this jacket last fall.

The Luca:
Padded shoulders, squarish compared to the Talbot.

The Alton:

Soft shoulders, roped shoulder, slightly wider lapels, about 3 1/2 inches, 2 button, double vented.
The Alton feels a touch softer overall than the Trophy, but that may be the fabric as the trophy I tried on was a beautful Zealander wool flannel, the Alton was a very light 130s.

The Trophy:

Softer shoulders than the Alston, equally roped, mid to wide lapels, 3 1/2 inches, 2 button, dual vents.

The Brad:

A car coat, 3/4 lined, in soft smooth wool, 6 button double breasted with nice details like a leather patch at the back of the neck on the insode and nice detail under the collar, if you flip it up on a cold or windy day, it will stand out from the jacket. Sleeves have buttoned tightening straps.

The Greenwich:
I know there are some fans of this cut here on AAAC, but I have not seen this suit body first hand and know nothing about it.


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## healinginfluence (Mar 1, 2006)

Thanks for posting all the different models. I don't know what model my store ordered for me. I asked for 2 buttons, side vents and plain front pants. He didn't order MTM but said he could get some adjustments made. He didn't feel the extra money for MTM would be worth it as he would nonetheless need to do alterations in the store. I almost always need to have the collar shortened.


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## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

Thank you for the excellent information.


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## kbuzz (Apr 2, 2005)

*what exactly is the PS model*



cgc said:


> Does AAAC have a guide to the various Samuelsohn models? In particular I am wondering how the 'Austin' model STP usually carries compares to the shape and fit of Paul Stuart's Samuelsohn line.


I know that sammy makes suits pvt. label for PS. I have seen both center vented and side vented models. Does anyone know if PS have some kind of unique model. Or is it just a standard sammy model.

I have a very nice PS sammy love the quality, but the lapels are just a tad wide for my skinny body.


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

johnnyblazini said:


> Triple sleeve jackets are underrated...


It helps when you have a third arm attached for ski boxing.


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## WinstonSpencer (Mar 12, 2006)

Thank you sir.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

*on the talbot*

yes good waist suppression can be had without a front darts. the underarm seams are used as well as the side seams.the 4 seams will do the job. the result will be good suppression at the sides. but the very front of the jacket will still be flat and trad like. by this i mean the area from the front edge to where the dart would have been.


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