# L.L. Bean to introduce Made in U.S.A. apparel collection this fall



## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

According to All Plaid Out, it sounds like L.L. Bean is maybe possibly getting back to its roots by rolling out a Made in U.S.A. line of clothing this fall, starting with items that actually make sense (unlike Lands' End's paltry attempt with Made in USA sweats). The items include shirts from , wool sweaters from Northeast Knitting Mills and cavalry twill (gasp!) from Hertling in Brooklyn. I have to say, I'm pretty excited about L.L. Bean heading in this direction. Whether or not it's successful remains to be seen.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

This is exciting, hopefully they'll price this line to be a fair deal for all.

Thanks for the heads up Hardline.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

127.72 MHz said:


> This is exciting, hopefully they'll price this line to be a fair deal for all.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up Hardline.


MHz, if you check on the Northeast Knitting Mills link, you can get an idea for what their pricing is. $32 is a great price for a made in USA wool sweater. I imagine there will be a reasonable markup from L.L. Bean for what I hope will be a greater selection of colors/designs.


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## AncientMadder (Apr 21, 2011)

Excited about this. Thanks for the notice.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Sounds good. I really wish they'd bring the shoe manufacturing back in-house. One step at a time...


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

Now we can wait for the spate of "I'm not paying that" "that's too much" combined with the "I'm waiting for it to go on sale." Shortly after Bean abandons the line in a year or so, we can then get back to that standard b!tch fest about how nothing is made in America.

Good times.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^LOL
....but first we must wait for LL Bean's Fall catalogs to hit our mailboxes!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Epaminondas said:


> Now we can wait for the spate of "I'm not paying that" "that's too much" combined with the "I'm waiting for it to go on sale." Shortly after Bean abandons the line in a year or so, we can then get back to that standard b!tch fest about how nothing is made in America.
> 
> Good times.


Perfect rant!!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Epaminondas said:


> Now we can wait for the spate of "I'm not paying that" "that's too much" combined with the "I'm waiting for it to go on sale." Shortly after Bean abandons the line in a year or so, we can then get back to that standard b!tch fest about how nothing is made in America.
> 
> Good times.


The thing about that is, L.L. Bean already has a lot of MUSA products. Almost 800, if I remember correctly. So does Lands' End (and for a reasonable price, too) but you'd never know about it unless you read the fine print. The problem is when these retailers invest a ton of money marketing these products and then pass the cost on to the consumer. I'd much rather they just increase the number of domestic manufacturers for their products and let us find out on our own.


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## Coffee Mug (Mar 27, 2011)

Excellent news! Long-term relationships with domestic manufacturers helped LLB and LE build their reputations for reliable quality. Lowest-bid outsourcing eroded those reputations significantly, and hopefully this is a step back in the right direction.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Don't know why they would spend that kind of money; it would cost pennies to put a link on their websites with an American flag, clicking it would bring up all MUSA products. Voila. Word would spread, and costs would be kept down.

Still just want to see shoes made in-house... :idea:


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

sbdivemaster said:


> Don't know why they would spend that kind of money; it would cost pennies to put a link on their websites with an American flag, clicking it would bring up all MUSA products. Voila. Word would spread, and costs would be kept down.


Here



sbdivemaster said:


> Still just want to see shoes made in-house... :idea:


Here and


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Very glad to see this.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

If they can do Hertling's for under $100, I'm in for many pairs. Even at $100, it's a good value.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

My old Hertling suits from Nordstrom represented the best cost vs. quality of any I've ever owned. Great fabrics and construction for the price, and their gabs wore like iron.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> According to All Plaid Out, it sounds like L.L. Bean is maybe possibly getting back to its roots by rolling out a Made in U.S.A. line of clothing this fall, starting with items that actually make sense (unlike Lands' End's paltry attempt with Made in USA sweats). The items include shirts from , wool sweaters from Northeast Knitting Mills and cavalry twill (gasp!) from Hertling in Brooklyn. I have to say, I'm pretty excited about L.L. Bean heading in this direction. Whether or not it's successful remains to be seen.


Sign me up! :thumbs-up:

Would love to see made in USA items that are something more than leverage for a marketing gimick!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Coffee Mug said:


> Long-term relationships with domestic manufacturers helped LLB and LE build their reputations for reliable quality. Lowest-bid outsourcing eroded those reputations significantly


Say it again! And again! American business is dense! It's all about the product and the customer!


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> Here


That's good, but why isn't there a huge freakin' flag on the splash page? I looked and looked, but I couldn't find a link to that anywhere on the site; maybe that's why they have to spend so much on marketing the fact that they have some items MUSA. That being my point: Don't make me search and search, make it obvious and they can cut back on marketing the fact that some items are MUSA.



hardline_42 said:


> Here


Well, I knew the Bean boots (which aren't shoes... :icon_smile_wink were still made there; I meant all their shoes - Bluchers, Mocs, boat shoes, Double L Lace-ups, etc.



hardline_42 said:


> and


C'mon guy, NB's aren't made by Bean... :biggrin:


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## CdnTrad (May 27, 2012)

This is great news. Now if they'd only do bean boots in half sizes I'd be a happy man. One can dream, I guess.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

CdnTrad said:


> This is great news. Now if they'd only do bean boots in half sizes I'd be a happy man. One can dream, I guess.


Bean boots are designed to be worn with socks, the thickness of which determines whether you size up or down if you (as I do) wear a half size. They're a little oversized to begin with. I have a wide foot, so I size up from 10.5 to 11, and they fit fine.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

sbdivemaster said:


> That's good, but why isn't there a huge freakin' flag on the splash page? I looked and looked, but I couldn't find a link to that anywhere on the site; maybe that's why they have to spend so much on marketing the fact that they have some items MUSA. That being my point: Don't make me search and search, make it obvious and they can cut back on marketing the fact that some items are MUSA.
> 
> Well, I knew the Bean boots (which aren't shoes... :icon_smile_wink were still made there; I meant all their shoes - Bluchers, Mocs, boat shoes, Double L Lace-ups, etc.
> 
> C'mon guy, NB's aren't made by Bean... :biggrin:


I was just yankin' your chain. I know what you mean. I bet there have to be a dozen or so old Maine shoe factories up there that could easily be scooped up for Bean's use.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Hertling Cavalry twills would be more like $200 bucks. 

My wish list is tattersall buttondowns and some khakis.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

AldenPyle said:


> Hertling Cavalry twills would be more like $200 bucks.


Bean's cavalry twills will be cotton. Still $200?


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> Bean's cavalry twills will be cotton. Still $200?


You are right. Cotton would be be $150.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> I was just yankin' your chain. I know what you mean. I bet there have to be a dozen or so old Maine shoe factories up there that could easily be scooped up for Bean's use.


Exactly! If they produced the Bluchers and Double-L's, etc in-house, exactly like they were 35 years ago, plenty of people would pay $100+ for them.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Speaking of Hertling cavalry twills, my favorite deal is back: the thrift shop that gets all the orvis seconds near my parents house (distribution facility is in town) has a haul of Orvis' Brooklyn Army Base Chinos (Hertling cavalry twills). Some are $50 some are $25, all new with tags. Had about a dozen pairs this afternoon. Shoot me a PM with your size if you want me to check for them. Minor line on the outside seam where they were pressed poorly (I will send a picture of mine if anyone is that worried).


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

AldenPyle said:


> You are right. Cotton would be be $150.


A bit more than I'd expect from Bean. But considering the esteem in which they're held, perhaps worth it.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

I agree, the pricing is very reasonable for an American made product. I'm sure I'll find something I like,...

Regards,



hardline_42 said:


> MHz, if you check on the Northeast Knitting Mills link, you can get an idea for what their pricing is. $32 is a great price for a made in USA wool sweater. I imagine there will be a reasonable markup from L.L. Bean for what I hope will be a greater selection of colors/designs.


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

Try Rancourt. They are in Maine and make a good many styles which are traditional and are great shoes. They make shoes for Eastland, Brooks Brothers, J Press and others and ARE "Made in Maine, USA"


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

+1 on Rancourt, I'd say they are on the up and coming and should be getting to Quoddy and Alden status in the fashion world soon enough. I'll be investing in their beefroll loafers when I have the extra cash.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Well, we may soon not have to worry about MUSA labels at all...

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/michele-nashhoff/changing-to-wtos-made-in-_b_1536758.html


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

sbdivemaster said:


> Exactly! If they produced the Bluchers and Double-L's, etc in-house, exactly like they were 35 years ago, plenty of people would pay $100+ for them.


If Bean made their shoes in the U.S., they'd likely have to charge Rancourt or Quoddy prices. Nobody seems to be able to sell a "made-in-Maine" shoe for <$200. If they made their chinos in the U.S., they'd likely have to charge Bills Khakis prices. Labor costs are simply too high to do otherwise.

Would anyone buy them at those prices? Probably not enough to make it worthwhile.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Topsider said:


> If Bean made their shoes in the U.S., they'd likely have to charge Rancourt or Quoddy prices. Nobody seems to be able to sell a "made-in-Maine" shoe for <$200. If they made their chinos in the U.S., they'd likely have to charge Bills Khakis prices. Labor costs are simply too high to do otherwise.
> 
> Would anyone buy them at those prices? Probably not enough to make it worthwhile.


You're saying that, while Bean can manufacture and make a profit on "made in Maine" Bean boots at $89 a pair, they would have to charge $200+ for a pair of Casco Bay Mocs or Bluchers to make it worth their while? Somehow, the labor costs of making other shoes in-house is going to increase the price of a $69 pair of Bluchers by $130?


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## Quorum (Oct 10, 2009)

The Bean boots are the classic symbol of the company--its first and best-known product. There is even a Bean Bootmobile currently touring the country. I would be astonished if they are not being sold at a loss in order to promote the brand and maintain its reputation for quality and value.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Quorum said:


> The Bean boots are the classic symbol of the company--its first and best-known product. There is even a Bean Bootmobile currently touring the country. I would be astonished if they are not being sold at a loss in order to promote the brand and maintain its reputation for quality and value.


^ This. If not a loss, break-even, or minimally profitable.

Manufacturing costs for rubber boots are going to be lower than all-leather footwear. Selling only full sizes helps keep costs down, as well.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Selling full sizes has no impact on the cost per unit; it would keep overhead down. When you say manufacturing cost, are you referring to labor, materials, or both (COGS)? Until we see the numbers, claims of loss leading/near cost sales are merely speculation. Even factoring those in, that does not approach the $130+ increase in labor cost you state is a barrier to the manufacture of shoes in-house.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

^ Of course, it's speculation. Speculation based on facts. Anything that increases overhead increases costs. Like, um...healthcare?

The relative lack of USA-manufactured goods speaks for itself as far as manufacturing costs are concerned, as do the prices of USA-manufactured goods.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Speculation, based on facts... what facts lead you to guess that Bean boots are sold as a loss leader? Were aren't talking about manufacturing costs, we're talking about increased labor costs of US manufactured goods.



Topsider said:


> Labor costs are simply too high to do otherwise.
> 
> Would anyone buy them at those prices? Probably not enough to make it worthwhile.


If a pair of Blucher shoes is manufactured in the US, you're trying to tell me that, due to increased labor costs, it would increase the price by over $130?


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Maybe you should try asking Kyle Rancourt.

[email protected]


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Topsider said:


> Maybe you should try asking Kyle Rancourt.
> 
> [email protected]


Moving the goal posts again? I'm done.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm optimistic and eager. With rare exceptions, the clothing I have purchased this year has been made in the United States.

I've spent far too long cringing at the hidden meaning of that final word in an item's description: "imported." Clearly it's a country not known for high quality or, more specifically, any particular aptitude with the item being sold or the material from which it was produced.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

SB and Topsider, I think you guys are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to made in Maine footwear. Bean boots and true handsewn shoes are vastly different in terms of the level of skill required to produce them. If you've ever seen LLB's promotional videos of Bean boot manufacturing, you can see that it's just a matter of clicker-pressing the leather, running the different parts through a series of machines and calling it a day. It probably takes more steps to rebuild a Bean boot than to make a new one.

A handsewn blucher, on the other hand, is a different story. Yes, LLB sells one for $69 and Rancourt for $215, but the only difference is NOT that one is made in Maine and the other in the Dominican Republic. The LLB shoes are "handsewn" in the sense that the plug and vamp have the stitch holes pre-punched by machine and a person "connects the dots" with a needle and thread (and lots of glue). Rancourt (and Quoddy, Oak Street, et al) handsewers work with two needles and an awl, shaping the leather around the last and punching each hole individually, adjusting for changes in the leather, puckering, etc. and saddle stitching as they go.

When considering the impact of domestic labor cost on the final cost of a shoe, you can't ignore the "skill" part of "skilled labor." It's the reason why "made in Maine" has a different connotation than just "made in USA."


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## alkydrinker (Apr 24, 2012)

On a side note, Linda Bean an heiress and part-owner of the company, is a public Ron Paul supporter. 

I think that is cool ...I wonder if that worldview affects the direction of the business.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

hardline_42 said:


> SB and Topsider, I think you guys are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to made in Maine footwear. Bean boots and true handsewn shoes are vastly different in terms of the level of skill required to produce them.


Which is why I said, "Manufacturing costs for rubber boots are going to be lower than all-leather footwear."

You and I are saying the same thing.

Rancourt video here:






Sperry video here:






Bean Boot video here:


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

To all those who PM'd me about the Orvis Army Base Chinos: they had one size 34 left, which my father wanted. However, if anyone wants a pair of regular Orvis Chinos (Ultimate Khakis, Dress Chinos, or Surfwashed), they did have some of those in various sizes. Most are first-quality returns. They also have a wide range of checked/tattersall shirts in several sizes and a huge number of "Island Fleece Pullovers" and "Signature Sweatshirts". Most seem to be first quality returns with the tag cut out or a line drawn through. PM if you are looking for something.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

On these bluchers, the missing niche, IMO, is something constructed a la the Dominican beans but made with decent leather and _possibly_ in the US (hopefully). We have a glut of handmakers with $200+ price points. We have a glut of cheapies (sperry, seabago, bean, etc...). We do not have Made in Main with real leather, but partly hand, partly machine made for the grand sum of $150/whatever. That would be perfect, in my mind.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

hookem12387 said:


> We do not have Made in Main with real leather, but partly hand, partly machine made for the grand sum of $150/whatever. That would be perfect, in my mind.


Not a big enough difference, IMO. If you're willing to spend $150, you'll spend $200. At least, I will. In the case of Rancourt, it's worth it (again, IMO).

Now, $300 for Sperry's Maine-made shoes? Overpriced, IMO. I suspect that's at least partly due to the efficiencies inherent in making shoes to order (Rancourt) rather than having them made up in advance and carrying inventory (Sperry).


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

alkydrinker said:


> On a side note, Linda Bean an heiress and part-owner of the company, is a public Ron Paul supporter.
> 
> I think that is cool ...I wonder if that worldview affects the direction of the business.


LOL. We can but hope that her business sense is superior to her political acumen! Otherwise it might be necessary for many of us to strike LL Bean from our list of preferred vendors? :crazy:


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## Red Tractors (Jan 9, 2011)

https://www.heraldnews.com/news/x14...-Knitting-in-Fall-River-indicted-on-11-counts

This is a bummer, it sounds an awful lot like Northeast Knitting is in deep trouble, and on top of that their website was last updated a decade ago.

I sent an e-mail, and it came back as undeliverable.



hardline_42 said:


> MHz, if you check on the Northeast Knitting Mills link, you can get an idea for what their pricing is. $32 is a great price for a made in USA wool sweater. I imagine there will be a reasonable markup from L.L. Bean for what I hope will be a greater selection of colors/designs.


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