# Does This Tuxedo Fit Properly?



## Sree (Jan 1, 2012)

I brought out my old tuxedo from the back of the closet last night for a semi-formal event, and I was not totally happy with the fit. It is a 40R. I think the shoulders felt slightly wide, and the length slightly too long. The button stance seems too low on me.

Is this too large for me? Should I go down to a 38S? Or would this look acceptable with some alterations?

My next tuxedo will be a peak-lapel. I did not know that notch lapel is not considered formal.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Think we'd need a closer pic. Also think, at the very least, you need to have the pants and sleeves slimmed. JMO, though

With the bigger pic, I don't know that anything is really wrong. I'd still slim those two items, I think it would look better. Just me, though


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## unmodern (Aug 10, 2009)

Actually, I think that looks pretty good. The button-stance is rather low, which is old-school, but it's not wrong. The overall length of the jacket is right.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

The notch lapel is generally considered lower on the formality scale. Many think it may be a way for clothing manufacturers to cut costs, although notch lapel dinner jackets have been around almost as long as the dinner jacket itself. Personally, I just find the shawl or peak to be more striking in appearance, different from the average notch lapel business suit.

If the shoulders are too wide then nothing will fix that. A good test (though not always conclusive) is to lean your shoulder against a wall. If the coat shoulder hits first, they may be a little wide. However, they don't appear to be drooping at the end.

Shirt sleeves (possibly coat sleeves) could stand to be just a bit shorter. The trousers could also be a bit shorter in the hem, which would have a more slimming and heightening effect.

I'd also suggest wearing a regular collar rather than wing.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Nothing really wrong here--you were probably ahead of most of the men there. Bite the bullet and sign up for the daily JAB email until the SBPL Sig Gold goes on sale for 66% off. Everything online is 50% off today, but that's full retail at JAB. At a deep discount, it's a good deal for something you'll wear only a few times a year.


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## tda003 (Aug 16, 2009)

+1 on Jovan's comments. Also shirt sleeves should be shorter. It's a bit difficult to be more exact. Try more photos w/ at least one w/ space between arms and body on both sides. Overall, though, looks like a pretty good fit w/ some minor alterations.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

If it's rented? Fine.

If it's yours? Nope.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Yup.

To my eye, the shoulders appear a tad wide, which is a deal killer. Trousers are definitely too long, but that's an easy fix. I'm not enough of an expert on formal clothing to say anything about the button stance but, bottom line, that suit just doesn't fit, in my opinion. More importantly, if you think it doesn't fit to the point that you're asking this question, you've answered the question.

Forget about JAB. Marshalls or Maxx, I can't recall which, has been clearing out Brioni tuxes, MSRP $6,000, for $239. Happened to a happy poster on TOF. If you are not adverse to the secondhand market, quality formal clothing goes for a song. My BB dinner suit (so called, I presume, because it has notched lapels) was purchased for $80 CONUS from the deservedly esteemed Tony Lumpkin, and it fit perfectly with no alterations, which is a testament to TL's measuring skills and the wisdom of dealing with reliable folk when buying clothes online. My own experiences in selling stuff has taught me that formal wear by the likes of Hickey Freeman and Brooks Brothers is a tough sell, which seems odd, given that folk are perfectly willing to rent a monstrosity for sixty bucks or so but completely unwilling to spend less than $100, alterations included, for something decent they can own forever.

Any rate, a JAB that you can try on to ensure fit is, I think, a better option than what is pictured. If it were me, though, and I didn't have an event on the near horizon, I'd do some serious hunting on TOF and even eBay. Deal only with established sellers like Mack and TL, and pay a bit extra for the privilege of returns. Cost aside--and you will pay way less if you're willing to go secondhand--I think you'll be way happier with a quality suit than JAB.

QUOTE=Trip English;1280869]If it's rented? Fine.

If it's yours? Nope.[/QUOTE]


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## Sree (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm sorry, what is TOF? What is the link to that?


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

https://www.styleforum.net/
I feel like a crack dealer...



Sree said:


> I'm sorry, what is TOF? What is the link to that?


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Yes,
But an update would not be out of order. and you will feel more relaxed and confident in that situation. Don't have any suggestions about what to do about it. One doesn't usually need one in my state, and a suit is generally overdressed though not unappreciated. Casual is the usual. and, very casual is pretty loosely defined, generally. But hey, why do you need to ask? If you want one more to your present taste, by all means, go there. Nothing like having options available and to hand on the day.
regards,
rudy


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

As several others have mentioned, there are a couple of somewhat minor problems with the pants length, arm width, and something off about the sleeve length (not sure if it's your shirt or your jacket from the one photo)... However, the real deal breaker is the shoulders, it all comes back to the shoulders.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

A good tailor can fix the sholders, but it would be expensive, not, in my opinion worth it for a notch lapel tux.

I agree with those who have suggested looking on line. One need not settle for previously worn on Ebay. I found a NWT Oxxford peak lapel tux there. For around $300 plus alteration costs it was a bargain.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Exactly. Quality formal wear is not expensive if you're patient. I don't have a problem with second hand, so I don't have to be as patient as others.

Yeah, a good tailor can fix most anything. A good mechanic can also make a 1932 barn-fresh car run again.



Gurdon said:


> A good tailor can fix the sholders, but it would be expensive, not, in my opinion worth it for a notch lapel tux.
> 
> I agree with those who have suggested looking on line. One need not settle for previously worn on Ebay. I found a NWT Oxxford peak lapel tux there. For around $300 plus alteration costs it was a bargain.
> 
> ...


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## musicmax (Mar 13, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> Forget about JAB. Marshalls or Maxx, I can't recall which, has been clearing out Brioni tuxes, MSRP $6,000, for $239.


Anyone got details on this?

ETA: Found the thread on TOF - apparently it was a EU 62 / US 52... good for flipping on the 'Bay but a touch large for moi.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

My guess is they're long gone from the mine and are now up on the Bay.



musicmax said:


> Anyone got details on this?
> 
> ETA: Found the thread on TOF - apparently it was a EU 62 / US 52... good for flipping on the 'Bay but a touch large for moi.


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

So, friend,
What did you do if any to satisfy your requirements?
Curious minds want to know.
(We are operating on idle until we hear back, you know.)
regards to all, and good evening,
rudy


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## Sree (Jan 1, 2012)

I have decided against trying to rescue this outfit with alterations. I could shorten the trousers and sleeves, and nip the waist, but that would still leave the arms and legs a bit too baggy, and the shoulders a tad too wide. ( I am actually comfortable now with the jacket length and button stance.)

I will be looking for a peak-lapel or shawl collar next, then goodwill this one. Since I am in no hurry, I hope to find a good one on TOF or eBay. 

It has been very elusive for me to find the perfect fit of any suit in general. My body type is not 'out of the way' so I don't feel the need to pay extra for bespoke or MTM. I think I can make it with OTR using the correct size and alterations.

I am still learning ... It helps me to look at pictures and hear other people's opinions about them. I will keep trying.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You can always sell it on this forum or eBay, too.


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## Sree (Jan 1, 2012)

Hi, I'm back for an update. I took all of your comments into consideration and decided to get a new tuxedo.

I sold the old J.Crew tuxedo and upgraded to a Brooks Brothers shawl collar tuxedo. I usually wear a 38S in the Fitzgerald fit, but this tuxedo was only available in the Madison fit, so I had to go one full size down to a 36S to get the same shoulder width.

It feels just a bit snug, but I think it is overall better in proportion compared to my old tuxedo, which was too baggy. The lapels are quite narrow compared to some older models I have seen. I would have preferred a double vent, but it only came in single vent. The material is very nice, and the jacket has a substantial weight. The trousers are pleated and uncuffed.

The alterations made were: shortening the sleeves, letting out the trouser waist, tapering the trouser legs, and hemming the trousers. I am afraid I might have overcompensated and made the trousers too short this time.

(I also replaced the shirt with a regular collar and the sleeve size one inch shorter)

I would appreciate any comments on the fit. I am wearing it with a cummerbund and no braces. I am thinking about letting out the waist and lengthening it, so I can wear braces. I will concede that I don't know how to tie a bow-tie neatly.

Here are the pictures:
























My ideal dinner suit would be the one from Dr. No,









Does anyone know where I can get a slim bow tie like this?


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## swb120 (Aug 9, 2005)

The old tux didn't look that bad, but the jacket did look too big and the sleeves were too short and the pants too long. The new one, however, looks terrific! Love the shawl collar, shirt looks far better, nice touch w/the pocket sq. Jacket fits perfectly. Slight break in the pants is far better than before. Sleeve length looks great. You could perhaps take some add't fabric out of the pants legs (and also take out the pleats, if desired), but again, I think it looks great and you don't need to change a thing!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

The new tux looks great! The first pic makes it seem like the DJ is a bit snug but it looks fine in the third pic. Pants/sleeve length is perfect. If the pants have side adjusters, I don't think braces are necessary, but they might be more comfortable. It's up to you.


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## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

Sree said:


> Hi, I'm back for an update. I took all of your comments into consideration and decided to get a new tuxedo.


If everyone's DJ fit as well as this one, the world would be a much better place. 
Well done, wear it and smile, chances are you will have the best fit in the room.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Looks very good, sree. pull the knot on your bow a little tighter, and don't worry about achieving perfect symmetry. Don't regret lack of double vents, not done on a dinner jacket. The elegant Bond seems to be pulling off a favorite trick for ease and comfort, wearing a plain white shirt with french cuffs, rather than a pleated, bestudded one.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Like night and day. Everything that was wrong with the old tux has been corrected with the new. Well done! 

Re: the bow, keep practicing. Before long, you'll give Bond a run for his money. 

Braces are not a necessity.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

This looks reasonably good to me. 

The problem with notch is that it is that is the least elegant of the alternatives and it also has sometimes been associated with staff. 

The button stance is where it should be. This current stance-in-the-stratosphere trend is of the devil! 

Skirt appears to line up with the bottom of the stride, but does not appear to be half the distance from the collar and the deck (measured with the two-finger calipers) . Possibly both the skirt is a bit long, and the trousers hang too low. 

The shirt and jacket cuffs may be a bit long while the amount of cuff shown is about right (it is more for black tie.)

Patent! Good for you! 

The tie could be a little wider without being too wide (outside the eyes, inside the ears) 

I never match the cummerbund to the tie -- looks like (senior) staff. Burgundy, Vatican red, and bottle green are good colors. 

I'd try guardsman slant for those trouser bottoms. That way you can have less break without showing sock. 

The shoulders do not appear to me to be obviously too wide. 

You are reasonably trim and have hair. This is good. Knock 'em dead!


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Sir,
Shoulders back, chest out, 'never fails' to paraphrase a more famous person than your humble servant.
Nice suit, though a pleated shirt would not be out of order.
One would like to have peaked lapel and so forth, however, you do look very presentable in your wardrobe. Fear not unless you do not have a presentable shoe. One would prefer the slipper with bow, though that may not be an option for most. Kind of too pricey for a very few times one may wear them: Not being invited to the Oscar's nor any other grand event any time soon...
That does not mean that one is in no need of a dinner suit or a jacket and tie in black and white nor a white tie ensemble nor a morning dress with appropriate fittings on the day. One is rather impoverished; however, at least, there is the heart of wishing to do greater things, which is something.
One never really needs a dinner suit nor any of the other things mentioned where I am. Always over dressed in any suit or even a coat and tie for the most part. One is not deterred, however and will continue to keep the faith that ladies and gentlemen should present themselves as well as they may on the day. (It is a vain and fruitless hope that people will be better than they know to be, which is why one would bother to assay to tell them so, should they wish to listen and seek.)
Good fortune to you good folk who travel here,
rudy


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## dorji (Feb 18, 2010)

Sree said:


> ... and the sleeve size one inch shorter)
> ..
> Does anyone know where I can get a slim bow tie like this?


^^Good job on this!
As for the bow- you might try setting it shorter in length than you think is reasonable (especially if it has those graduated markings on it) and try that with a tighter knot. For example, I measure 16" neck, but my bows are set anywhere from 14"-15". I question the accuracy of those little size indicators, but more importantly I just mess with em until they are set right, then leave em be :icon_smile: The size indicated by the markers is always significantly less than my actual neck size. And no, I am not choked out... Thanks for sharing this process with us! You have done well I think..


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## Sree (Jan 1, 2012)

Thank everyone for your comments. 

I will practice on getting the knot tighter. (and keep my eye out for a narrower bow tie)

I think the jacket does not need anymore alterations. I am satisfied with it now. The pictures are not great quality, but I am wearing a pleated shirt.

The trousers might use some narrowing in the legs. My impression was that the pleated front is the more classic option. Good point on the slant hem. I read about that before, but I totally forgot to request that this time. 

I am not ready to splurge on the opera slippers yet, as I don't think I will wear them often enough.

Thanks again, I have learned a lot here.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You are looking fantastic, Sree.

You could always have a skilled tailor sew up the back vent. If he/she does a good enough job, it will look like there is no vent at all.



The Rambler said:


> Looks very good, sree. pull the knot on your bow a little tighter, and don't worry about achieving perfect symmetry. Don't regret lack of double vents, not done on a dinner jacket. The elegant Bond seems to be pulling off a favorite trick for ease and comfort, wearing a plain white shirt with french cuffs, rather than a pleated, bestudded one.


Bond's shirt has MOP buttons but it is pleated.

https://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/?p=382


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Jovan said:


> You are looking fantastic, Sree.
> 
> You could always have a skilled tailor sew up the back vent. If he/she does a good enough job, it will look like there is no vent at all.
> 
> ...


Good to see you back, my friend.

Regards,

Alan


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

why, Jovan, so it is (pleated). I need a bigger monitor or new glasses.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

That ain't enough cuff.


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## mingus2112 (Dec 6, 2011)

+1
This is what I did with both of my dinner jackets - had the back vent sewn shut. Since I was having the shoulders taken in on the first one (usually a no-no, but when you have an event coming up and you're out of options, you do what you have to do!) and had other pants in for alterations with the second one, he did not charge me for sewing up the vent. It's easy and fast to do.

-J


Jovan said:


> You are looking fantastic, Sree.
> 
> You could always have a skilled tailor sew up the back vent. If he/she does a good enough job, it will look like there is no vent at all.
> 
> ...


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