# The Search For Authentic Bleeding Madras Blog



## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

I know. I am the gentleman to whom my good friend, Yogesh, refers. What an adventure!


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

It's back...

Brian


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm shocked that some bunch of crunchy Etsy hipters can't get this made, but anyway I actually like the pattern that was made. How does one get some?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Beautiful fabric!


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## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

Aucociscokid: Congratulations on sourcing some beautiful fabric. A question: I remember that you've been looking for bleeding madras for a while. When you first started making inquiries, you mentioned Rosen and Chadwick and Atlantis. Did you ever purchase some of their fabric? Was it any good?


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thank you all! Thanks for the compliments, straw sandals and remembering me! Awesome responses and feedback. The next step is to turn this into a business, duvel (who has responded to other posts of mine on other topics.) It HAS been an adventure - and speaks some to the incredible power of the internet (and perhaps that it has indeed resulted in a worldwide community). I did the whole thing sitting in front of my computer in Marina del Rey, CA. After making as many calls to India as Yogesh says he did in his blog (and sending even more emails. Of course, he was in India when he made his, too), I started posting on blogs such as AskAndy searching for sources of authentic "bleeding" madras by-the-yard. At the time, I naively thought that all one had to do was walk into the modern-day (or Indian) equivalent of the old Beckenstein's and - viola - they'd have "bleeding" madras. Production in India was halted in the early 1970s because the vegetable-based dyes were harmful to the environment. Environmentally-safe vegetable dyes have since been developed, but - in the intervening years and even in India - everybody wants to be doctors and lawyers and computer programmers and nobody tailors, cobblers - let alone weavers and dyers of authentic and traditional "bleeding" madras. It is an incredibly painstaking process to dye and weave - in some cases requiring weeks (or months) just to dye the fabric. Not to mention the skill-level and craftsmanship of weavers. I encountered Yogesh Gagendran on a blog called IndiaMike just by incredible chance. He is (or was) in IT and was looking for alternative careers. I don't think he knew that much about madras when he responded, but he took up the challenge (see his blog.) He's an incredible "go-getter," showed considerable initiative and resourcefulness on his own. As far as Atlantis is concerned: I think that what they're selling is the power-loomed stuff, although at one time they were representing that it was the handloomed variety. Rosen and Chadwick are reputable (and long established) fabric merchants. When I spoke with Ellen (I believe) there early in 2014, she said that they no longer had madras, but - what they did have - was power-loomed. Our fabric is beautiful. it has "soul" in the opinion of one garment manufacturer in Andy (Gilchrist's) old hometown of Manhattan Beach, CA; Lee Johnson of Old Bull Lee (shorts). I'm also going to contact Ellen (Rosen and Chadwick) again to tell her the authentic "bleeding" madras can now be supplied in commercial quantities reliably. I have a call out to Rikky Khanna (Spicer and McKay) who has an incredible knowledge regarding "bleeding" madras and has been helpful in giving us guidance as to the "reed-and-pick" count of the cotton we wanted to use. (Apparently, the cotton used in the 1960s wasn't very good, which is perhaps responsible for so few of the garments from that period having survived to the present and gave it a very rough "hand." Although, I bought a deadstock "bleeding" madras shirt from the 1960s on etsy for over a $100; The Weejun I think "scored" some too and he's had offers from Japan for incredible amounts of money. Rikky also tells me that he knows of an fabric merchant in Delhi (?) who has several meters of the 1960s stuff with which he will never part, even for a "king's ransom." Thanks to Rikky's advice and guidance, our fabric has is being woven from a cotton with a high-enough "reed-and-pick" count to make give it a very silky hand, and yet a durability to survive many, many launderings.) Hey! The feedback here is incredible and shows a market exists. Let's all see what we can do to get going! Again, thanks to all who have taken the time to read the blog and postings here. Thanks, too, to Andy Gilchrist! Its an INCREDIBLE resource he's created!


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

We've heard the same hype before. Wake me when a product of some sort is available.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Wake up, gamma68! If you're interested in COMMERCIAL amounts, tell me how much you require via PM, we'll quote you a price, etc. There's also a lot of commercial interest over on StyleForum, too! 

Wow! Is all I can say!


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

Will this be the only pattern available? 

I'm with gamma. When I can buy a shirt or pair of shorts, let me know.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks for your response. It will not be the only pattern. Back in the 1960s there were - I believe - 150,000 different patterns being dyed/woven. I don't know whether we'll ever do THAT many. Hey! Right now we're just set up to dye/weave the cotton, albeit in commercial quantities. You want garments? Perhaps, the best things to do are let people like Rikky Khanna (Spicer/McKay); Lee Johnson (Old Bull Lee); O'Connell's etc. know that the authentic "bleeding" madras fabric is once again commercially available and that YOU want "bleeding" madras shirts, shorts, etc. My own experience is: If a capitalist knows a demand exists, he will meet it.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

What all are the benefits of hand-loomed fabric? Obviously it is pricier and more labor intensive, so I'm guessing it allows a more delicate yarn to be used? Or is it all about rough-hewn "character."


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

I'm going to defer to Yogesh, to whose attention I've called this thread. Its not about the "rough-hewn" character, however. Quite on the contrary. Our fabric has a a VERY silky "hand." It can esp. be noticed when our fabric is placed alongside my deadstock shirt from the 1960s, which feels like cardboard. Some of this is owing to the fact that our cotton has a higher "pick-and-reed" count than was even available (I think) in the 1960s. How I prove this: I don't know. I'd send little squares of ours to those who request it via PM (while - in the words of TV commercials of the 1960s - supplies last.) Getting a deadstock 1960s shirt: That's up to you.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

aucociscokid said:


> Wake up, gamma68! If you're interested in COMMERCIAL amounts, tell me how much you require via PM, we'll quote you a price, etc. There's also a lot of commercial interest over on StyleForum, too!
> Wow! Is all I can say!


I doubt anyone here is intereted in commercial amounts, if/when they turn into shirts or shorts, let us know.

And how about a pic of the material bleeding in water or at least an after pic showing the faded colors?

Brian


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> Wake up, gamma68! If you're interested in COMMERCIAL amounts, tell me how much you require via PM, we'll quote you a price, etc.


I don't make clothes, I buy them. Tell ya what, I'll take a pair of patchwork madras shorts, waist 34. What is your price, with standard shipping?


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

(1). Invest? No. Advertising for investment on a forum such as this is a violation of federal securities laws (included as advise for other would-be entrepreneurs.) (2) Buy fabric by-the-meter? No. Too cumbersome. Although, I'm happy to send samples for free to those requesting them via PM. (3) Help in taking the fabric-to-product step? Yes. Definitely. Have had some discussions with manufacturers/retailers (See my postings above.) Chide them and others to action? Yes. Definitely. To some, while, having expressed an interest in manufacturing garments with our material, it seems to be on the "back-burner" (but that may have been the Holidays, too). (4) Sharing the adventure? Yes. (5) Generating interest in "bleeding madras" and reviving its dyeing/weaving in India? Yes. (5) Sharing my knowledge? Always happy, too. Thanks for admiring my sense of entrepreneurship. I'm a "senior citizen" entrepreneur, too. I'm 65.

Brian: Yogesh has done a good job describing how they "bleed." I've washed the sample Yogesh sent me. It faded. To an extent that I can document accurately with MY camera and photographic skill? I don't know. But, then, again, it being a gradual process is exactly the desired effect. Be glad to send you a sample. Then, you can report back to us here. I have no idea whether anyone here is interested in commercial amounts or not. That's not the case over on S/F.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> You want garments? Perhaps, the best things to do are let people like Rikky Khanna (Spicer/McKay); Lee Johnson (Old Bull Lee); O'Connell's etc. know that the authentic "bleeding" madras fabric is once again commercially available and that YOU want "bleeding" ma shirts, shorts, etc. My own experience is: If a capitalist knows a demand exists, he will meet it.


Seems like it's your responsibility to market your fabric to clothing manufacturers and sellers, not ours.

Maybe try approaching the people on "Shark Tank"?


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks, for the "Shark Tank" suggestion, gamma68. Not looking for investors, however. (BTW: The you ever seen the contract S/T producers want you to sign? You'd have to be an idiot - or unable to afford the services of even an the stupidest lawyer- to appear on it.) We - Yogesh and I - marketing it. To the extent that other clothing manufacturers - B/B, Florsheim, Oxxford - are being "marketed" on these forums, well, then, "Yes," we are "marketing" our madras. Mostly, as Duvel, said: There seem to be Members here who wish updates on our progress toward producing garments. We appreciate the interest of Members such as him. Just sharing the adventure with interested Members. That's all!


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## Roycru (Apr 13, 2011)

As Sir Lancelot might ask, "What's the bleeding time?".


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

The bleedin' time is: 6:57 PM PT. Hey! If you're looking for this fabric to turn water bright colors, that ain't gonna happen. Nor, would you wish for that to occur. I washed my sample of fabric with a white dish rag in a normal wash cycle, warm water, in/with Nellie's. Would I use the wash rag with the amount of color which was transferred? "Yes." Would I wear a white shirt again which was washed with anything "bleeding" madras? "No." It wasn't as it I bled on it (as from a shaving nick, etc.), but it also - perceptibly, but not dramatically - wasn't white any longer. I would say that the amount of color transferred was = to the amount of tea color transferred after 30 sec. - minute of steeping.


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## wwilson (Jul 13, 2012)

I think that this is a tremendous opportunity to promote a product from a by-gone era. There just might be some additional information gleemed from this forum and maybe the others listed. Hopefully, contacts will be made and the process will continue. The only thing I can offer is to maybe contact the BB shirt manufacturers in NC, maybe?


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## Oak City Trad (Aug 2, 2014)

Duvel said:


> Your adventure sounds like something Werner Herzog might have filmed, and Search for Authentic Bleeding Madras would make a great movie title.


Chennai: Wrath of God also has a nice ring to it. He's already written a book on the subject, at least within the length of his posts. That could be whipped into a screenplay easily.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks, wwilson. All we're essentially trying to do here on A/A is discuss "bleeding" madras. As you said, it is a product from a by-gone era. Many - if not most - under 65 probably have never worn the authentic stuff. The shirts (and other garments) made by R/L, etc. don't "bleed." (One A/A poster on a thread said a class-action lawsuit should be instituted on that account.) 

Mister Freedom has posted this about "bleeding" madras which I've found to be the most accurate account. Wouldn't it be great if it could be restored to the status where, "If you owned two shirts on Campus, chances are one of them was a short sleeved cotton Madras plaid shirt."? 

One of the version of the “Guaranteed To Bleed” story goes like this. It dates back to sometime in 1958 or 1956 (according to the source) when…

“… the leading textile importer William Jacobson embarked on a trip from the U.S. to Bombay in the hopes to return with this exotic fabric from India.

Upon his arrival, the local textile Commissioner Mr. Swaminathan directed him to Captain C.P.Krishnan Nair the proprietor of Leela Scottish Lace Ltd, a textile exporting company from Chennai ( modern day Madras) who presented Jacobson with a fabric that he fell for right away. It was a Madras plaid fabric with a strong smell of vegetable dyes and sesame oils that was dyed in vivid colors that was originally made for export to South Africa.

Mr. Nair was delighted to supply Mr. Jacobson with the Madras fabric at $1 per yard, warning him that the fabric required utmost care when laundering because the color would run out if it wasn’t gently washed in cold water.

The American exporter sold ( 10,000 yards ) of the same fabric to Brooks Brothers who manufactured trousers and jackets (which sold for $50) . However Jacobson failed to fully explain the properties of the fabric and did not issue washing instructions to Brooks Brothers.

Customers were furious when they saw the colors run that ruined their expensive summer apparel. Jacobson was likewise furious and summoned Mr. Nair to the United States where his attorneys threatened to sue Mr. Nair and the Leela Scottish Lace Ltd.

Instead of fighting each other they came up with solution that was sheer marketing genius! One of the attorneys arranged an interview for Mr. Nair with the editor of Seventeen Magazine in which he created a story about this miracle Madras fabric from India that was exclusively made for Brooks Brothers in New York. In the following issue, the editor ran a seven-page article about fabric titled “Bleeding Madras — the miracle handwoven fabric from India”.

And since pictures say more than 1,000 words, they added beautiful photographs with the caption “guaranteed to bleed”.

Within a days of the magazine hitting the newsstands, Brooks Brothers was flooded with thousands of requests for the Madras items and it became an overnight success. Both, Mr. Jacobson and Mr. Nair made a fortune from the sale and paved the way for future Indian fabric exports of millions of yards of Madras cloth.”

Of the power of a few photos and chosen words in a magazine, eh?
If only the Fashion media would put that magic formula to good use more often… But, paying sponsors are about moving more widgets, not about doing less damage. So we might never see the end of factory distressed garment ads…

Randomly fast forwarding to the summer of ’65, direction the preppy side of Southern California. If you owned two shirts on Campus, chances are one of them was a short sleeved cotton Madras plaid shirt.

For many preps, and even a few tambor beating beatniks, these were the go-to shirts. ‘Inland’ surfers wore madras plaid regatta shirts. Golfers figured madras plaid pants were a great idea. Greasers couldn’t be bothered…


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Kid, I had no idea how elaborate the creation of real madras is (or was). We take its color harmonies, and dissonances, pretty much for granted.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Great insight, SlideGuitarist. It IS a very complex weaving process. One of the reasons that hand looming is preferred to power (and in response to another poster who asked why is one "better" than the other) is that in power, the patterns are TOO geometric, if you know what I mean. They look machine created, rather than by a human hand (and brain.) Its why when I go a barber, I prefer scissors vs. clippers. The imperfections - the non-regularity - it what makes it interesting. You know what I mean?


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

wwilson said:


> The only thing I can offer is to maybe contact the BB shirt manufacturers in NC, maybe?


I second this. It is my understanding that Ratio uses the same Garland Shirt Company.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

AT THIS POINT WE HOPE TO HAVE SHIRTS, SHORTS, (Jackets?) AVAILABLE FOR SPRING-SUMMER 2015.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> AT THIS POINT WE HOPE TO HAVE SHIRTS, SHORTS, (Jackets?) AVAILABLE FOR SPRING-SUMMER 2015.


I don't suppose you can tell us who will be offering your goods at this point, but I am happy to hear this. Although Spring-Summer 2015 is basically here, so I'm not certain I have much faith in that statement.

If you have any input with the production at all, you might point them to this forum to see what styles and cuts the market you are targeting is interested in purchasing.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

At this point, we will defer to the manufacturer/retailer to make an formal announcement. The GOAL is to be ready for Spring-Summer 2015. I will say that it is someone known to Andy (Gilchrist) himself (I believe) and the A/A members (I am confident.) If you search on some of the other menswear/fashion blogs, you will see he has a through knowledge of - a familiarity with - "bleeding" madras and has been helpful to us in the past in providing technical information about it. Thanks, Duvel!


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

universitystripe said:


> I don't suppose you can tell us who will be offering your goods at this point, but I am happy to hear this. Although Spring-Summer 2015 is basically here, so I'm not certain I have much faith in that statement.


Agreed. I'll believe it when I've seen it. There have been past threads from the OP filled with bleeding madras hyperbole.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

I spoke with the manufacturer/retail earlier today, universitystripe. He said Spring/Summer '15. Will keep forum members updated. As I said, the guy's identity can be ascertained with a wee-bit of detective work here and on StyleForum. You can judge for yourself whether you think he can do it. Any Members wish to tell us what they'd like to see as far as shirts, etc. are concerned, we want to met consumer demand.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Depending on price, I'd be in for a shirt. I do like the sample pattern a lot.

also, and I've said this in the past, per current manufacturers using true bleeding madras: my RL rugby s/s shirt did actually bleed when I soaked it in warm water after getting it. I put it in a clear bowl and left it for about 30 mins, the water ended up tinted orange. Though the colors didn't run to the point that the plaid is indiscernible, it definitely faded and changed a bit. I know Rugby isn't around anymore, but RL did do something right with that fabric. Just my $.02.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

According to H. Sudarsann; Deputy Managing Director (Technical); Handicraft and Handlooms Export (HHEC) of India, Ltd.:



1) The above fabrics were very popular during 1960/1970.
2) The dyeing/printing process are very lengthy process and time consuming.
3) There were sufficient raw material available naturally at that time and now days it is not so.
4) Man power was there to do such labories process, now people want to make quick money...
7) I have joined this company in 1979 and visited almost all production unit in South India and never seen bleeding madras check weaving...
9) Vegetable colours are using for dyeing in small quantities on organic cotton and which are very expensive and not on commercial basis.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Spier and McKay. Their Rikky Khanna said they could have garments ready for Spring/Summer, 2015. We're currently producing shirt-weight fabric. He inquired also when we spoke about jacket-weight, which we can do, too.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> Spier and McKay. Their Rikky Khanna said they could have garments ready for Spring/Summer, 2015. We're currently producing shirt-weight fabric. He inquired also when we spoke about jacket-weight, which we can do, too.





Duvel said:


> Congratulations! I look forward to seeing their results.


+1, I'm looking forward to updates on this


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks for your good wishes, Duvel. Thanks, orange fury! Be glad to update members here, who, in turn, should provide us with their feedback, suggestions, patterns, etc. they'd like to see, etc. which we'd appreciate and be glad to take into consideration. Duvel: I used to have a house on Peaks Is., (ME); my maternal cousin lives in Topsham; and her brother is a Bean's seasonal employee.


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## Oak City Trad (Aug 2, 2014)

Interested to see when/if this plays out, too. Maybe let someone else handle the marketing copy, though?


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

I was not familiar with Spier & Mackay. I looked at their website and am pleased to see that I will not have to deal with outlandish prices, anemic collars, or anorexic proportions, which were all fears of how this wonderful fabric could be turned into a sad dealbreaker. This should be good!


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks for your interest, Oak City Trad. Totally agree with your marketing copy comment. I ain't the one to do it. Thanks, Tempest. Rikky Khanna comes from a family of tailors. Very knowledgeable. Very good businessman. Very conscientious. He was one of the first I contacted about this months ago. He's been very supportive and generous with his time as far as we're concerned on subjects such as "reeds-and-picks," etc.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

Tempest said:


> I was not familiar with Spier & Mackay. I looked at their website and am pleased to see that I will not have to deal with outlandish prices, anemic collars, or anorexic proportions, which were all fears of how this wonderful fabric could be turned into a sad dealbreaker. This should be good!


Yes, Spier & Mackay appears to be a fitting clothing manufacturer for this type of product.

I must admit that I have never been one to purchase short-sleeve madras shirts despite their being Trad. I also seem to be drawn to patterns with their most prominent color being that classic madras red.

Patch patterns are always a winner.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I have a madras short-sleeved shirt from J. Crew from a few years back that I really like, as well as a newer one from Lands' End. I wear them on the hottest days of summer, very casual. It's a look with very much a retro 60s vibe, for me. Not something I can do all the time, but definitely works sometimes.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

aucociscokid said:


> Spier and McKay. Their Rikky Khanna said they could have garments ready for Spring/Summer, 2015. We're currently producing shirt-weight fabric. He inquired also when we spoke about jacket-weight, which we can do, too.


So...what are you doing w/ all the fabric you said you already had produced?

Brian


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

He already had produced it in the future. Future past conditional tense or something like that.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

What do you mean: ALL? We had a 3 meter x 3 meter piece woven for samples which is pictured on Yogesh's blog. We are now proceeding on to dyeing/weaving shirt-weight material for Spier. Their Rikky inquired as to whether jacket-weight material could also be dyed/woven as well - in addition to shirt-weight, to wish we responded, "Yes." We're waiting to hear in response from Spier. JEEZ! Some of you guys! I can only repeat Eric Cartman's plea about what you guys should stop doing!!


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> What do you mean: ALL? We had a 3 meter x 3 meter piece woven for samples which is pictured on Yogesh's blog. We are now proceeding on to dyeing/weaving shirt-weight material for Spier. Their Rikky inquired as to whether jacket-weight material could also be dyed/woven as well - in addition to shirt-weight, to wish we responded, "Yes." We're waiting to hear in response from Spier. JEEZ! Some of you guys! I can only repeat Eric Cartman's plea about what you guys should stop doing!!


A suggestion: reduce the hype and deliver a product. I'll be interested if and when any proposed menswear item is available for immediate purchase. Otherwise, this thread is a broken record. Lots of talk, but no product. I don't want to hear about what might be. I want to hear about what is.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey! All I did was post my man Yogesh's blog, which one poster remarked could be a Werner Herzog movie. One other said: "Its back!" Duvel then asked what's the next step. To which I responded. You guys ask. I just respond which my parents and school teachers told me is polite.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> Hey! All I did was post my man Yogesh's blog, which one poster remarked could be a Werner Herzog movie. One other said: "Its back!" Duvel then asked what's the next step. To which I responded. You guys ask. I just respond which my parents and school teachers told me is polite.


You respond quite a bit, actually. See: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...ic-Bleeding-Madras-Blog&p=1648005#post1648005

I couldn't make it past the first couple lines. I'd just like to see a product.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

aucociscokid said:


> What do you mean: ALL? We had a 3 meter x 3 meter piece woven for samples which is pictured on Yogesh's blog. We are now proceeding on to dyeing/weaving shirt-weight material for Spier. Their Rikky inquired as to whether jacket-weight material could also be dyed/woven as well - in addition to shirt-weight, to wish we responded, "Yes." We're waiting to hear in response from Spier. JEEZ! Some of you guys! I can only repeat Eric Cartman's plea about what you guys should stop doing!!


This has been going on for quite some time now, you've said a few times the 500 meters will be produced soon, so call me a doubting Thomas. That being said, if this does materialize as reasonably priced shirts in attractive patterns, I'll be at the head of the line w/ cash (or debit card) in hand.

Brian


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Send me your resume, Duvel. In 9 (or so) months I manage to get a fabric produced which hasn't been in 45+ years in a village without electricity 200 km. + from a major city 9000 mi. from where I live without leaving my computer and get it produced to a quality higher than it is was back then and convince someone I've never met 3000 mi. the other way while running a major film finance entity and I take too long to do something????


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Again: I only started this because I - for myself - sought some "bleeding" madras which I remembered from The Sixties to have made-up into shirts.. When I started, I was unaware that it hadn't been produced in 45+ years and the prospect of it ever being produced again were virtually non-existent. I did it for fun and the adventure of it. I - like Yogesh - thought others here would be interested in the adventure, as the adventure started on blogs such as this. We got it now in the hands of a manufacturer/retailer. Now, the ball's in his court. I prefer to keep this fun and light. I like sharing the adventure with others here - and elsewhere - as well as what I learned about "bleeding" madras along the way. But, I do prefer to keep in on the level of essentially a bar room conversation of the type in which I used to engage at the old P.J. Clarke's (for those of you who remember what it once was) or still do at the still- hallowed Farrell's in Park Slope/B'klyn when I'm back east. This is nothing but a lark. OK?


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

Have you people ever seen the historical people weaving by hand? It's literally a thread's length at a time, yo. And that's once you have the dyed yarn, which the dye is from rare scratch....
You'll have to wait a little bit, Veruca.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks, Tempest. Good comment which increases our knowledge of and appreciation for "bleeding" madras.


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## boatswaindog (Nov 18, 2010)

In the beginning there was the deed. Somebody in the business of making clothing needs to take a risk, place an order, agree upon terms. He's doing a bit of advertising and I don't see why that is wrong. He would be foolish to create an enormous inventory without a commitment. Just as a matter of logic I don't see why bleeding madras has to be hand loomed. In the rising economy of India it won't be. But is there an inherent reason it can't be machine loomed?


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## Oak City Trad (Aug 2, 2014)

Duvel said:


> Well, it could be a Werner Herzog movie. I meant that as a good thing!


I didn't. Aguirre was about a man losing his mind on a never-ending quest for something that didn't exist. Draw your own conclusions...


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

boatswaindog: You sound as if you have a background or statistics. Anyway: Yeah! I suppose that's what I was doing. But: In the rising economy of India, it ALREADY is being powerloomed. However, when one comes right down to it: What does any one NEED anything for? Bespoke tailoring, handmade shoes? Oak City Trad: Hardly something I "broke a sweat over." More of a spare time sort of thing. (A) I have another business. (B) Some people play golf. I look for madras, Ratti Persol 714s, Norman Hilton blazers from the 1960s, pocketless Brooks Bros. OCBDs (or ones with the minimal amount of info on the label as possible.) Keeps me off the streets and my wife and I from fighting. What can I tell you?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

What is the meaning of life? Can we find it in the pattern of a madras shirt?


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Can you find the meaning of life in the pattern of a madras shirt? Sure we can. Its a thing of beauty and in Lee Johnson's (Old Bull Lee) words it has soul. Perhaps sanity is to be found on the other side of - by passing through - insanity. Ever think of that?


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## ButchHusy (Dec 2, 2005)

What do you plan to charge for these shirts? My guess is at least double what Rugby was selling their bleeding madras shirts.


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## ButchHusy (Dec 2, 2005)

Still waiting a response from the 'kid, maybe he has disappeared again for another three to four months? Is the plan to sell through the tailor or use them make the clothes and then sell them on your own?


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

I'm here. I have another business to run in the field of entertainment finance. We're looking to have Spier & McKay to manufacture the cloth into garments (shirts, shorts, odd jackets, etc.). Thanks.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Does any Member know for how much say Thomas Mason sells their fabric to shirtmakers, please?


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

aucociscokid said:


> Does any Member know for how much say Thomas Mason sells their fabric to shirtmakers, please?


This sounds like something Howard might say and good advice indeeed...you'd be wise to sell your fabric for more than you paid, that way you can make what is called in the business "a profit".

Brian


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Yes, I would definitely try to make some money. Good advice!


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Make money??!!! No. Our material to the manufacturer is going to be several times that, but we have it covered. Still on track to offer finished - very high quality - garments via the internet for spring-summer 2015. Got it covered.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

In the world of clothing retail, we really are right on the cusp of the spring-summer season. You're saying they're almost ready?


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

vwguy said:


> This sounds like something Howard might say and good advice indeeed...you'd be wise to sell your fabric for more than you paid, that way you can make what is called in the business "a profit".
> 
> Brian


I'm still wondering if we're ever going to see a true demonstration of this magic "bleeding" fabric. Or are we just supposed to spend $$$ and see for ourselves?


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

I mean to say those manufacturing the product w/years in the menswear business (and significant reputations), tell me they will have finished garments ready for spring-summer 2015.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Proof is in the pudding. I'll believe it when I see the madras pudding.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Don't say you'll eat your hat. I was looking over some emails. My interest in madras was piqued just 8 months ago. I think that's pretty good. Doing something which hasn't been done in 45+ years - and was done 10,000 mi. away when it was - and which maybe 10 weavers in India can still do without leaving my computer. The Herzogian aspect wasn't in the pursuit of the madras.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

How about a picture?


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)




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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

How about a video showing the fabric bleeding as it soaks in water? You've made the claim, now let's see the proof.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Be happy to send you a swatch, gamma68.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

*Result of Madras Non-Colorfastness Test*

The result of the non-colorfastness test as far as the madras goes has been uploaded to flickr. It "bleeds" and fades! Perceptibly so! It was conducted by soaking a 13 in. x 4 in. swatch in a approx. 10 oz. of hot (but not boiling) water for 30 mins.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Its on flickr. The file's too big to upload here, man. Somebody wants to tell me how, I'd appreciate it.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

A link would suffice.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

*Link to Madras Non-Colorfastness Test*


__
https://flic.kr/p/16217986920


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks, Tempest. Glad you like - and appreciate - the result. Thanks, too for posting the picture. Both swatches are dry. The one on the top (the faded one) was soaked, then dried in the dryer. Thanks, again.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

Looks promising. I'm saving my madras money for you this year, aucociscokid. Don't let us down.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks, universitystripe. We won't disappoint. You guys here have been very patient. This is a link to flickr of the madras after not quite 5 min. of soaking.


__
https://flic.kr/p/16379602836

In it, the sample is still wet. But, you can see its a gradual, progressive process. It material goes through may changes and hues. Thank, again all. (If Tempset - another member - would be gracious enough to upload it here from flickr for all to see, that would be very much appreciated. Thanks, again. All!


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

The pressure is on.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I assume that's a pic of you after the madras samples?

Brian


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Yes. Me. 7 years ago. Wearing a Loopwheeler tee. Also on flickr are ones of:

Dennis Farina getting a trim by my old barber, Henri Soucy, at the old Gornick-Drucker's on Linden & Wilshire in Beverly Hills;
Bill Gornick (the owner) and Henri in front of pictures of Gornick-Drucker customers, like "Dutch" Reagan.
Pictures of the surrounding area from the roof of where we used to live on Venice Beach. We now live in Marina del Rey. (Nearby and less weird, if you know Venice.)


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

Take 2


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## boatswaindog (Nov 18, 2010)

I just don't understand the reaction here. Someone announces that he thinks he can make what everyone wants and all people do is attack him. I suspect there is only a small market for this stuff and the only way to manufacture it will be with an extremely premium price. At best in Mercer territory. I just don't understand the hostility.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

boatswaindog said:


> I just don't understand the reaction here. Someone announces that he thinks he can make what everyone wants and all people do is attack him. I suspect there is only a small market for this stuff and the only way to manufacture it will be with an extremely premium price. At best in Mercer territory. I just don't understand the hostility.


We take clothing rather seriously around here. We all take these things with a heavy dose of skepticism until we have the item in hand.

None of this is personal. I'm sure our friend will forgive us all when he is calculating his profits, assuming all is as he says.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks, Tempest, for importing the pictures from flickr and making them bigger. You can really see and appreciate the fading in those. And that after only one soaking sans detergent. Thanks, boatswaindog, too. I'm meeting some very nice people on this journey - like Yogesh Gajendran in India - who saw a posting I made on India Mike and responded to the challenge. He knew nothing of "bleeding" madras, despite in its association with his city Chennai (which was Madras.) He educated himself and got the job done in a very short period of time. Talk about initiative! And of course the Members here. Its about the journey. The adventure. The fun. The learning. The broadening of experience.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

aucociscokid said:


> Its about the journey. The adventure. The fun. The learning. The broadening of experience.


The growing deposits in the bank account.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

My focus, Duvel, is in providing an absolutely high quality product which is what I intend to do. Being what American merchants like L.L. Bean, etc. used to be. Customer and service oriented.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Hey, don't dis my Bean. I still love my Bean!



aucociscokid said:


> My focus, Duvel, is in providing an absolutely high quality product which is what I intend to do. Being what American merchants like L.L. Bean, etc. used to be. Customer and service oriented.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

And engaging in activities of which I can be proud. Up-close, you can't believe how beautiful this fabric is, too. One of my maternal cousins who lives in Saco, ME, may be working at Bean's as I write. He was yesterday at this time. His mother, my aunt, is 98 and lives on Peaks Is., if you're familiar with it.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I saw her just the other day. She was wearing her Bean boots on her way to purchase a lobster roll.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

My aunt first went to Peaks Is. in c. 1919, summered there from 1919-c. 1975, when she moved there "'year round" as they say. She - to the best of my knowledge - has never had a lobster in any way, shape, or form ever. As a matter of fact, to the best of my knowledge, the lowest per capita consumption of lobster worldwide is on Peaks Is., despite being in Casco Bay, the source (to my way of thinking) the best lobsters. Lobsters "go" for next to nothing on Peaks and they can't be given away. I think if you paid the residents to eat them, they wouldn't. Go figure. That's Maine!


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I thought it was odd. I said, "Mabel! Where are you going with that lobster roll? You don't eat lobster." She simply looked back at me and said, "Sonny, I've never had lobster in any way, shape, or form. Don't you think it's about time I did?" I smiled, and she jumped on her motorcycle and roared off.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> Be happy to send you a swatch, gamma68.


Still waiting for that swatch.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ I hope that you are not holding your breath.

With the greatest of respect to OP (ahem) it is difficult to read through this thread without experiencing a heady whiff.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

As in, we is stoned?


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Duvel said:


> As in, we is stoned?


As in Eu de Bovine, I believe.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Ah, _that _ heady whiff.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

(A) The limited amount of fabric which I have is quickly being depleted sending swatches out to those who appreciate it and respect me; most manufacturers.

(B) I don't do anything for those who don't respect me and mock me and who have no respect for my colleague and the dyer/weaver in India.

(C) There's pictures of the fabric, with proof that it "bleeds" posted here.

(D) If you're not going to post on topic (politely, gentlemanly, and respectfully) - a discussion of "bleeding" madras and our adventure in reviving its dyeing/weaving in India- post on another thread - please. Annoy them and show them how crude and disrespectful you are.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

When is your large batch of madras due in and do you think you'll still hit the Spring/Summer time frame for shirts being produced?

Brian


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Thank you for your respectful and polite inquiry, vwguy, which I 'm pleased and happy to address. Carl Goldberg at Cego - to whom I sent a swatch (which he called "beautiful") - said he was going to try to have shirts for spring/summer 2015 manufactured by a shirt maker in Georgia (?) which manufactured shirts for Brooks Bros. (I'm sorry the name of the manufacturer escapes me for the moment, but its not Garland; Mc...something.) I also sent some information by email on Feb. 3, over to Glen Hoffs, Brooks Brothers' head of men's design, who was knowledgeable about 'bleeding" madras and expressed an interest. Brooks, of course, first imported "bleeding" madras c. 1956. Best to address questions about their future plans for making finished garments to them.

Carl Golberg/Cego:
(212) 620-4512
E-mail: [email protected]

Glen Hoffs: 
[email protected]


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> (A) The limited amount of fabric which I have is quickly being depleted sending swatches out to those who appreciate it and respect me; most manufacturers.
> 
> (B) I don't do anything for those who don't respect me and mock me and who have no respect for my colleague and the dyer/weaver in India.
> 
> ...


Sir, I asked for a swatch. You said you'd provide one. It hasn't arrived.

With all due respect, I suggest you create a follow-up thread once products from this fabric are available for direct purchase. Until then, it's all just talk.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> Thank you for your respectful and polite inquiry, vwguy, which I 'm pleased and happy to address. Carl Goldberg at Cego - to whom I sent a swatch (which he called "beautiful") - said he was going to try to have shirts for spring/summer 2015 manufactured by a shirt maker in Georgia (?) which manufactured shirts for Brooks Bros. (I'm sorry the name of the manufacturer escapes me for the moment, but its not Garland; Mc...something.) I also sent some information by email on Feb. 3, over to Glen Hoffs, Brooks Brothers' head of men's design, who was knowledgeable about 'bleeding" madras and expressed an interest. Brooks, of course, first imported "bleeding" madras c. 1956. Best to address questions about their future plans for making finished garments to them.
> 
> Carl Golberg/Cego:
> (212) 620-4512
> ...


All very vaugue with no firm commitments. How naive do you think we are?


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

I politely requested that post be polite, gentlemanly, respectful, and on topic, gamma68. Did you respect my request?


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

aucociscokid said:


> Thank you for your respectful and polite inquiry, vwguy, which I 'm pleased and happy to address. Carl Goldberg at Cego - to whom I sent a swatch (which he called "beautiful") - said he was going to try to have shirts for spring/summer 2015 manufactured by a shirt maker in Georgia (?) which manufactured shirts for Brooks Bros. (I'm sorry the name of the manufacturer escapes me for the moment, but its not Garland; Mc...something.) I also sent some information by email on Feb. 3, over to Glen Hoffs, Brooks Brothers' head of men's design, who was knowledgeable about 'bleeding" madras and expressed an interest. Brooks, of course, first imported "bleeding" madras c. 1956. Best to address questions about their future plans for making finished garments to them.
> 
> Carl Golberg/Cego:
> (212) 620-4512
> ...


Are you still planning to work w/ Spier and McKay or are they out of the running? When will the fabric be in the States? How do you plan to ship it, by the way?

Brian


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> I politely requested that post be polite, gentlemanly, respectful, and on topic, gamma68. Did you respect my request?


I requested a swatch, but that was not honored.


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

Duvel said:


> I thought it was odd. I said, "Mabel! Where are you going with that lobster roll? You don't eat lobster." She simply looked back at me and said, "Sonny, I've never had lobster in any way, shape, or form. Don't you think it's about time I did?" I smiled, and she jumped on her motorcycle and roared off.


Duvel, this made me smile probably more than anything else I've read on AAAC. Nothing like some good fan fic.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

I requested that future posts be respectful, polite, gentlemanly and on-point. Have you, gamma68- respected my polite and simple request? Why should you expect any respect in return whatsoever. Its clear you're interest here is just in posting in having others read your snide and insulting comments and remarks. Besides: Who are YOU to judge? There are those whom are genuinely interested and supportive. You- gamma67 - just waste our time. I am happy to address respectful comments, as I just did to someone - a Mainer - who just sent me a PM.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Duvel said:


> I thought it was odd. I said, "Mabel! Where are you going with that lobster roll? You don't eat lobster." She simply looked back at me and said, "Sonny, I've never had lobster in any way, shape, or form. Don't you think it's about time I did?" I smiled, and she jumped on her motorcycle and roared off.





Reuben said:


> As in Eu de Bovine, I believe.


I laughed harder at these two posts than I have in a while, thank you both lol.

per the madras, the pics look good - I'll be interested when it comes to fruition. I will say though, to RL's credit - my Rugby S/S madras shirt, billed as "bleeding", did end up with the same murky-water result when I soaked them in hot water for a bit. By far my favorite madras shirt that I own, this one could be a favorite too depending on the finished product. This isn't a knock against the one being discussed, just an observation that a manufacturer did do a product that truly bled recently.

Edit: this is the Rugby shirt-









Aucociscokid, question: for shirts, do you know what details it'll have? I.E., flap pocket (or pocket at all), button down collar, 3rd collar button, long or short sleeve, etc? Just curious if they gave you any info.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> I requested that future posts be respectful, polite, gentlemanly and on-point. Have you, gamma68- respected my polite and simple request? Why should you expect any respect in return whatsoever. Its clear you're interest here is just in posting in having others read your snide and insulting comments and remarks. Besides: Who are YOU to judge? There are those whom are genuinely interested and supportive. You- gamma67 - just waste our time. I am happy to address respectful comments, as I just did to someone - a Mainer - who just sent me a PM.


I'm not going to enter into a debate with you, sir. But I will point out that you offered swatches, and I sent a respectful PM requesting one. In your reply, you stated that you'd send one. You didn't honor the request.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Haven't had time to to get Rikky at Spier/McKay any samples. (This is not my "day job.") RLs cotton is 40x40 for openers. There is powerloomed. The dyes are chemical ones, i.e. it is not the "bleeding" madras which was produced in the 1960s. Won't say anything about RL. Carl Goldberg, who made "bleeding" madras shirts in the '60s and knows shirts and RL is, however, impressed. I will only be supplying the fabric. Perhaps you can let Carl know what your preference are.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

OF, the PRL is nice with the flap pocket, isn't it. I've got one of those myself, in a slightly different colorway. Yesterday I picked up another PRL madras at a consignment store. No flap pocket, shows the pony, and it does not have the authentic madras label, but it does say it was made in India. PRL does a good job with this kind of shirt. 

The odd thing is, the shirt is marked an XXL. I almost didn't pick it up because it was in the xxl section, but it caught my eye. Held it up, and it seemed my size, and lo and behold, it fits almost exactly like my L with the flap pocket. I wonder if the previous owner dried it in the machine?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

aucociscokid said:


> Haven't had time to to get Rikky at Spier/McKay any samples. (This is not my "day job.") RLs cotton is 40x40 for openers. There is powerloomed. The dyes are chemical ones, i.e. it is not the "bleeding" madras which was produced in the 1960s. Won't say anything about RL. Carl Goldberg, who made "bleeding" madras shirts in the '60s and knows shirts and RL is, however, impressed. I will only be supplying the fabric. Perhaps you can let Carl know what your preference are.


depending on price, I'd purchase it regardless - it's an attractive pattern IMHO. I just wasn't sure if they had offered any details.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Duvel said:


> OF, the PRL is nice with the flap pocket, isn't it. I've got one of those myself, in a slightly different colorway. Yesterday I picked up another PRL madras at a consignment store. No flap pocket, shows the pony, and it does not have the authentic madras label, but it does say it was made in India. PRL does a good job with this kind of shirt.
> 
> The odd thing is, the shirt is marked an XXL. I almost didn't pick it up because it was in the xxl section, but it caught my eye. Held it up, and it seemed my size, and lo and behold, it fits almost exactly like my L with the flap pocket. I wonder if the previous owner dried it in the machine?


My shirt is actually from Rugby, so I don't know if it's different or not, but my patch madras jacket and madras shorts are all PRL. I haven't seen or handled any madras from RL purple or black label (if that even exists), but Ralph Lauren does seem to do exceedingly well with the fabric for a mainline manufacturer. I love my Lands End madras because of the weight and patterns, but it only faded a bit - it didn't really "bleed". I do have 2 madras shirts from J Peterman (snagged for $20 apiece on sale!) that I never got to wear, I'll be very interested to see how they do. The weight is great, but I haven't washed them yet, so the jury's still out on whether or not it'll bleed.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Ah, I see. It looks similar to my PRL flap pocket. Personally, I'm not particular about whether the madras actually bleeds or not. Icing on the cake if it does, but mine probably never will since I handwash in very cold water.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Duvel said:


> Ah, I see. It looks similar to my PRL flap pocket. Personally, I'm not particular about whether the madras actually bleeds or not. Icing on the cake if it does, but mine probably never will since I handwash in very cold water.


The flap pocket is a neat detail (and certainly very trad, e.g. J Press OCBDs), but not a deal breaker for me. While it looks neat, I actually find it a bit of a hindrance, as I normally keep sunglasses in the chest pocket.

same thing with the back collar button and locker loop - doesn't serve a purpose for me, but neat nonetheless


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

"Bleeding" is not dependent on the water's temperature. It just has to be wet. Madras today "bleeds" because a method known as "direct dyeing" is employed. In "direct dyeing," the dye never penetrates the yarn, i.e. because they lie just on the surface, the dyes are easily and quickly washed away and off. Ours are "yarn dyed;" vegetable dyes penetrate the fabric. The others also use chemical dyes. Vegetable dyeing/handlooming produces vibrant colors. Vegetable dyeing produces long-lasting colors/patterns. 60x40 cotton is luxurious, yet durable. Powerloomed garments shrink - a lot. Handloomed: Very little.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

aucociscokid;1657729. Carl Goldberg at Cego - to whom I sent a swatch (which he called "beautiful") - said he was going to try to have shirts for spring/summer 2015 manufactured by a shirt maker in Georgia (?)....I also sent some information by email on Feb. 3 said:


> Aucociscokid, I'm still a bit confused and would sure appreciate your clarifying something, please.
> 
> Setting aside Brooks Brothers for the time being and focusing on Carl Goldberg: It seems that Carl's ability to make "plans" would depend on two major factors--
> 
> ...


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Don't know what you mean by, "Meeting of the minds"? When Carl and I spoke, I believe 10 (or so) days ago, he was informed product could be supplied within 30 days of receiving an order. Amounts weren't discussed, prices were. We aren't limited to the pattern (checks) fea tured in the A/A-posted photo photo several pages back. The dyers/weavers can suggest others, or the fabric can be dyed/woven to order. Example of patterns/checks can be found on the internet (See the link to Emma McGinn's blog)

https://emmamcginn.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/bleeding-madras-inspiration-from-the-past/

+ the HHEC in Chennai itself maintains and extensive library of patterns/checks produced in the 1950s-1960s. (In its heyday, it was woven in 150,000 different ones.) In India, we're geared up to met orders in a timely fashion and maintain very high standards of quality.

From our end, production on a R/L-scale is possible and can dye/weave both shirt and sports coat weights. Unlike the HHEC, from whom I believe R/L and others are currently obtaining their fabric which has 500 meter minimums, we can do "runs" as small as 100 meters.

The fabric produced (60x40 - "60 singles" - vegetable-dyed, handloomed organic cotton) will be of a much superior quality to that produced in the 1960s and of a much superior quality to that produced by others currently. (40x40 - or less - vegetable and yarn or vat- dyed handloomed non-organic in the 1960s and 40x40 powerloomed -or handloomed w/an agent - chemical and vat -dyed cotton today.)


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

It would be great if shirtmaven would let us know should he place an order. The CEGO reputation is solid, so my enthusiasm is certainly not waning.
Despite not hating the primary based classics, an olive or other drabber darker pattern would be fantastic.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

You, Tempset, are equally as solid. When we spoke, Carl- jokingly - asked if, when his order arrived, would the fabric have bugs in it like it did in the '60s. He added that in the 60s he ordered madras from India, which he made it up into shirts sold out of his parents army and navy store. Is this Goldberg's in Philadelphia, does anyone know? I've yet to ask. When I first became interested, I heard he might have some left-over bolts. I used the term "quality" in conjunction with "madras." He said there was no such thing as "quality madras." I believe we may have convinced him otherwise. He's a good guy. I like him. Very knowledgeable, too. I like you, too, Tempset. Glad we struck up an A/A acquaintance.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Aucociscokid, thank you for your detailed response to my inquiry regarding Carl Goldberg. Just one last question, if I may. Spier and McKay: are they still set to have shirts that are made from your fabric on the market sometime during this coming spring/summer? Thanks very much.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

aucociscokid said:


> I requested that future posts be respectful, polite, gentlemanly and on-point. ..........


Shhhh!

There's a good chap.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Seems like much ado about nothing. Yes, authentic madras is nice. It bleeds--yay! Will it make or break the tradly day? Meh.


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## aucociscokid (Jan 17, 2006)

Haven't been in contact with them for about 3 weeks, so I wouldn't know, Charles Dana. Sorry. Thanks for the polite inquiry.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

A polite inquiry w/ two questions for you, when do you expect the fabric to be in the States and are you selling the fabric to the shirt maker or contracting w/ them to produce shirts for you?

Brian


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Duvel said:


> Seems like much ado about nothing. Yes, authentic madras is nice. It bleeds--yay! Will it make or break the tradly day? Meh.


I think a lot of us would pay extra for extra detail, a more attractive "backstory," more "authenticity," _just because_. Some dudes love watches; I don't. But I might be willing to go for this simply because it would be fun to have. I said "might"; I don't have $ to indulge all my whims. I did not know before reading this thread that madras is a sort of cultural hybrid.


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