# Savile Row Bespoke quality in NYC?



## T1Million (Feb 13, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I think I am finally ready to enter the world of Bespoke and I want my first one to be right. 

I was looking at the list of Savile row tailors that visit NYC and I contacted a couple of the ones I had heard of but they seemed very expensive (I was looking to spend $3000-$4000 tops). 

I also didn't like the idea of them not being available all the time in case there was a problem (I had some custom and it was a real project with lots of fittings). I know these people are very good at what they do but it's just the way I feel.

So really I am looking for someone a bit better on prices who is local and just as good as the Savile row guys.

Or am I asking too much?


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## CharlesAlexander (Apr 21, 2008)

Visit the Lower East side in Manhattan, there are tons of great tailors. It's the closest thing in New York to Savile Row. If you do a Google map search on tailors or bespoke you'll see what I mean.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

T1Million said:


> So really I am looking for someone a bit better on prices who is local and just as good as the Savile row guys.
> 
> Or am I asking too much?


The best NYC tailors aren't any cheaper than Savile Row. I don't know their exact pricing, but Raphael, Corvato, and Fiorovanti each charge ~$5k for a suit.

As for quality and service, you may be better off with a New York tailor anyway. Savile Row is not the be all end all of tailoring anymore. Anyway, all else being equal, it's hugely helpful to have your tailor nearby for fittings and adjustments.



CharlesAlexander said:


> Visit the Lower East side in Manhattan, there are tons of great tailors. It's the closest thing in New York to Savile Row. If you do a Google map search on tailors or bespoke you'll see what I mean.


I was under the impression that most of the LES 'tailors' are really MTM operations or don't really do a classic suit. If the OP wants something on par with a Savile Row experience, he's probably better off using one of the city's more established tailors.


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## T1Million (Feb 13, 2009)

I just got Winston tailors canvassing me on a private message. 

Does this happen often?


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## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

T1Million said:


> I just got Winston tailors canvassing me on a private message.
> 
> Does this happen often?


Only when you make it known that you are looking to spend $4k on a suit and one of our resident suitmakers happens to be listening. :icon_smile_big:


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

You need to find out their prices, Savile Row bespoke is not always more expensive. In the UK a Tom Ford RTW suit can cost the same as bespoke from an independent tailor on Savile Row (Savile Row trained). 
In the US, Tom Ford bespoke will charge more then Savile Row bespoke tailors visiting the US.



mafoofan said:


> The best NYC tailors aren't any cheaper than Savile Row. I don't know their exact pricing, but Raphael, Corvato, and Fiorovanti each charge ~$5k for a suit.


Doesn't William Fioravanti charge $10k for a suit, or is that for their top-price cloth?


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

mafoofan said:


> The best NYC tailors aren't any cheaper than Savile Row. I don't know their exact pricing, but Raphael, Corvato, and Fiorovanti each charge ~$5k for a suit.
> 
> As for quality and service, you may be better off with a New York tailor anyway. Savile Row is not the be all end all of tailoring anymore. Anyway, all else being equal, it's hugely helpful to have your tailor nearby for fittings and adjustments.
> 
> I was under the impression that most of the LES 'tailors' are really MTM operations or don't really do a classic suit. If the OP wants something on par with a Savile Row experience, he's probably better off using one of the city's more established tailors.


MaFoo,

You live in NY right? Does Rubinacci have an atelier in NYC? If not, how do you deal with fittings, adjustments, emergencies?


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## 11211 (Apr 17, 2008)

T1Million said:


> I just got Winston tailors canvassing me on a private message.
> 
> Does this happen often?


Read his blog and his posts here and you'll learn that he is generous to us all with information and stories. It may also make you increase your interest in exploring a relationship with him.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

T1Million, with all due respect you could have just asked a moderator in a private message. Forum etiquette dictates that you keep private messages _private_.


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## T1Million (Feb 13, 2009)

Any experience with Duncan Quinn? I heard he has an English manager who used to work on savile row.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

IIRC Quinn offers a very high quality suit but it isn't bespoke. Its MTM with multiple fittings, made in Brooklyn by Martin Greenfield.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

mafoofan said:


> The best NYC tailors aren't any cheaper than Savile Row. I don't know their exact pricing, but Raphael, Corvato, and Fiorovanti each charge ~$5k for a suit.


Actually, the current overall starting prices for a full bespoke suit from the following first rate tailors in New York State (not just New York City) are:

Nino Corvato $4,800

Raphael Raffaelli $5,400

Enzo's Custom Tailors of Smithtown $6,000

Leonard Logsdail $6,000

Vincenzo Sanitate $6,900

Tony Maurizio $7,500

Frank Shattuck $9,000

William Fioravanti $10,500

Before anybody asks or makes any assumptions, I did not contact any of these tailors to get their current prices.

Some of these current prices are from members of AAAC, LL and SF other than me. And, some of these current prices are from clothing magazines and clothing articles online.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

ToryBoy said:


> You need to find out their prices, Savile Row bespoke is not always more expensive. In the UK a Tom Ford RTW suit can cost the same as bespoke from an independent tailor on Savile Row (Savile Row trained).
> In the US, Tom Ford bespoke will charge more then Savile Row bespoke tailors visiting the US.
> 
> Doesn't William Fioravanti charge $10k for a suit, or is that for their top-price cloth?


As I said before, currently, $10,500 is William Fioravanti's overall starting price for a full bespoke suit.

I don't know what his overall top price (when made out of top price fabric, of course) for a suit is. It depends on the number of pieces that the suit or tuxedo consists of.

This is according to an article that I read in a clothing magazine not too long ago.

Again, I did not contact William Fioravanti or any other tailor to get their current prices. Just like I said before, these tailors' current prices that I pass along are either from members of AAAC, LL and SF other than me, clothing magazine articles or online clothing articles.


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## comrade (May 26, 2005)

No one mentioned Cheo. Doesn't he rank as one of the best,
especially for natural shoulder style?


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## Fairlane (Jun 18, 2008)

I will add my two cents here if it is OK. I've decided, when I have my finances in order, (coming along :icon_smile_wink to go with David Reeves, an English tailor who does business locally in the Queens area. I think his prices are pretty competitive, compared to what I've seen posted in this thread. Maybe drop him a line and see how he fares for you.

https://www.davidreevesbespoke.com/

Philip


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Audi S5 TC said:


> Actually, the current overall starting prices for a full bespoke suit from the following first rate tailors in New York State (not just New York City) are:
> 
> Nino Corvato $4,800
> 
> ...


I do not question the skill of those tailors, having admired very much the photos I have seen of their work, but for that kind of money, I could get a bespoke suit on the Row with some bespoke shirts from Jermyn Street.


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

CharlesAlexander said:


> Visit the Lower East side in Manhattan, there are tons of great tailors. It's the closest thing in New York to Savile Row. If you do a Google map search on tailors or bespoke you'll see what I mean.


Why do you mention these trendy guys?
customer said he was looking for a saville row quality suit.

none of the downtown guys are actually tailors. all farm out to either Greenfield, Gilberto, rocco, Adrian Jules, A & A,or Hong Kong. some of them, may have a tailor on premise. some may actually know how to measure and fit.
Of all of them, I would trust SEW before the others. His family has been in the clothing business for at least 30-40 years.
What is Leung tailors doing these days?

Carl


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

Wiith greenfield he doesnt really work much these days. The tailor that measures you is Dominik an older fellow that works there. so what you're really getting is a factory suit measured by anyone


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

T1Million said:


> Any experience with Duncan Quinn? I heard he has an English manager who used to work on savile row.


Hey that was me! I don't work there anymore though. I struck out on my own about a year ago.

I am now based in New York and looking to build my own reputation.

Why didn't you contact me I was on the list of savile row tailors?


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Shirtmaven said:


> Why do you mention these trendy guys?
> customer said he was looking for a saville row quality suit.
> 
> none of the downtown guys are actually tailors. all farm out to either Greenfield, Gilberto, rocco, Adrian Jules, A & A,or Hong Kong. some of them, may have a tailor on premise. some may actually know how to measure and fit.
> ...


I have to take exception to this. Having worked on the Row and still having many freinds there I can tell you that it is not unusual in the slightest to farm out work. It has always been done in order to produce the best work.

Like anything complex let's say a car, you don't expect the manufacturer to supply and build every component or one guy to build it all?

There is something to be said about specialization. Yes I could sew my own button holes on my garments but the lady in Huddersfield who has been doing it for 50 years does it better.

It is the norm for many specialists to work on a quality bespoke suit.

Now I am not saying that there are not people out there doing it all but then again there are people who have designed and built houses on there own. Certainly impressive. Are they great houses?

Huntsman is open and proud of the fact that they use many expert tailors to produce a garment ( although they produce on the premises as far as I know).

In fact farming or subcontracting if you like is not a cheaper option. Think about it. Your employing lots of highly paid highly skilled people instead of 1!


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

I have no issue with farming out work. Most of my shirts are made in a workroom in New Jersey. 
these downtown firms do not have a lot of control over the factories they use. It is one thing to cut your own garments and then have them made in a small workshop. You control the fit. You might even stop back to the shop to shape the lapels, etc.
it is just that the Poster seemed to be interested in suit with a bit more attention to detail then the usual MTM suit. 

I know what it costs to make a suit at the various factories. I know how much fabric costs are. Paying $3000 to one of thes downtown stores is not a bargain. 
You are paying more for the "vision of the designer" then fabric and labor and standard profit.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

Audi S5 TC said:


> Actually, the current overall starting prices for a full bespoke suit from the following first rate tailors in New York State (not just New York City) are:
> 
> Nino Corvato $4,800
> 
> ...


https://www.forbes.com/2004/11/03/cx_ns_1103feat.html

Dunno if this has been posted here before (likely has), but this article in Forbes is kind of interesting. There's a slide show of the 15 most expensive tailors they could find at the time. This article is from 2006, but I would venture to say that the pricing info is still relatively valid for those still in business. I'd think that the economy would have cancelled out any inflation that occured since '06 in regards to something as discretionary as suits.


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

so a mtm suit from martin greenfield for those that are able to go direct for under $1500 is a bargain?


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

shirtguy said:


> so a mtm suit from martin greenfield for those that are able to go direct for under $1500 is a bargain?


I'd say so.


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

It is a decent suit but not amazing. Ned is a better value. of course Greenfield has access to patterns that were developed for other customers.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

I think if you have the time, inclination and the flair to get your own suit made by Martin and you can do it for under 1500 good luck to you. Really. 

I would say most of my customers are millionaires (don't mind the ones that are not) and they really do not have the time to do things like this. Time is money.

That said, I offer both MTM and Bespoke. I do not use Martin right now. I have been in this business for Ten years at some of the finest stores in the world including two on savile row. I know what a Bespoke suit is, and I offer this service at very competitive prices. Since my name is on these suits I am producing the best work I have ever done throughout my career.


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## Pechorin77 (Dec 21, 2006)

The Louche said:


> IIRC Quinn offers a very high quality suit but it isn't bespoke. Its MTM with multiple fittings, made in Brooklyn by Martin Greenfield.


I have a couple of bespoke suits made by DQ and I take exception to it not being "bespoke." My understanding is that MTM is merely the customer gets to pick a particular fabric and have say a stock 42 with a few detail changes made, which is then altered at the fitting as any off-the-rack suit would be.

Bespoke, again as I understand it, has a pattern made for the individual from their measurements based on their posture/proportions/etc. and including choices of lapel width, button placement, pockets, armhole size, etc., along with all the details that one would generally expect.

I certainly didn't have a stock DQ pattern made for me as I altered several aspects of his usual style (armhole size, dropped shoulders, sleeve width, lapel width, etc.) and when I shopped around before deciding on his work I was told by several of the other shops that my requests couldn't be accomodated.

All of this said, I think that DQ makes an excellent suit and I couldn't be happier with how it all turned out.


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

hate to inform you. that if that suit was made at Greenfield, you did not have a pattern made. I could be mistaken but your pattern could have been drawn up on a computer and then either cut by hand or cut by an automated knife or laser cutter.

all of those special details can be altered by the computer. or by a cutter on the table with out producing an individual paper pattern. It is a "custom Made Suit. Bespoke is a term that does not mean much anymore.

the suit may look great. It has some hand work in it, but I doubt there is as much hand work as you may think it has.
Carl


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## T1Million (Feb 13, 2009)

David Reeves said:


> I think if you have the time, inclination and the flair to get your own suit made by Martin and you can do it for under 1500 good luck to you. Really.
> 
> I would say most of my customers are millionaires (don't mind the ones that are not) and they really do not have the time to do things like this. Time is money.
> 
> That said, I offer both MTM and Bespoke. I do not use Martin right now. I have been in this business for Ten years at some of the finest stores in the world including two on savile row. I know what a Bespoke suit is, and I offer this service at very competitive prices. Since my name is on these suits I am producing the best work I have ever done throughout my career.


What firms did you work for?


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

David Reeves said:


> I have to take exception to this. Having worked on the Row and still having many freinds there I can tell you that it is not unusual in the slightest to farm out work. It has always been done in order to produce the best work.
> 
> Like anything complex let's say a car, you don't expect the manufacturer to supply and build every component or one guy to build it all?
> 
> There is something to be said about specialization. Yes I could sew my own button holes on my garments but the lady in Huddersfield who has been doing it for 50 years does it better.


I think you're oversimplifying. Whether an outworker sews buttonholes and whether the person taking measurements also draws and cuts your pattern are completely different things. The more 'specialists' you throw into the mix, the more you risk losing in translation from one step of the production process to the next.

It's silly to analogize car manufacturing to the making of bespoke suit. Cars are mass-produced from mass-produced parts; they are, for the most part, uniform from one example to the next. Assembly lines and multiple suppliers make a lot of sense in that context. A suit, on the other hand, must be made with specific regard to the client at every step of production for the best possible results.



Pechorin77 said:


> I have a couple of bespoke suits made by DQ and I take exception to it not being "bespoke." My understanding is that MTM is merely the customer gets to pick a particular fabric and have say a stock 42 with a few detail changes made, which is then altered at the fitting as any off-the-rack suit would be.


Doesn't Duncan Quinn have Martin Greenfield make its suits? MTM is not as bare bones as you describe; a stock pattern is manipulated in order to account for a set of individual measurements and various features can modified. What you describe sounds more like made-to-order. 'Bespoke' is distinguished by a newly created pattern, specifically for the client, not limited by a pre-existing template. If Duncan Quinn is using Greenfield's Brooklynn factory to make suits, I doubt they are bespoke. Even if they were, it's a huge disadvantage to have people cutting and assembling your 'bespoke' suit who have never even laid eyes on you before.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

mafoofan said:


> I think you're oversimplifying. Whether an outworker sews buttonholes and whether the person taking measurements also draws and cuts your pattern are completely different things. The more 'specialists' you throw into the mix, the more you risk losing in translation from one step of the production process to the next.
> 
> It's silly to analogize car manufacturing to the making of bespoke suit. Cars are mass-produced from mass-produced parts; they are, for the most part, uniform from one example to the next. Assembly lines and multiple suppliers make a lot of sense in that context. A suit, on the other hand, must be made with specific regard to the client at every step of production for the best possible results.
> 
> ...


I am just speaking from my own experience. I think building the house is a better analogy. By talking about building cars I was trying to get across the point that a suit is a compex piece of kit with lots of components. Yes using others to work on a garment things can be lost in translation that's why you have to be very careful to make sure that doesn't happen. When I was at Art school our teachers always talked about things being lost in the translation from the mind to the hand to the medium to the viewer.

Oh now I am over complicating things it's allgone a bit Plato's republic! Back to tje world we are talking about. Kilgour has been having some of it's suits made
in shanghai succesfully for many years.

Being an obbsesive compulsive with an art degree who makes bespoke suits, I can tell you very little gets lost in translation!


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

David Reeves said:


> I am just speaking from my own experience. I think building the house is a better analogy. By talking about building cars I was trying to get across the point that a suit is a compex piece of kit with lots of components. Yes using others to work on a garment things can be lost in translation that's why you have to be very careful to make sure that doesn't happen. When I was at Art school our teachers always talked about things being lost in the translation from the mind to the hand to the medium to the viewer.
> 
> Oh now I am over complicating things it's allgone a bit Plato's republic! Back to tje world we are talking about. Kilgour has been having some of it's suits made
> in shanghai succesfully for many years.
> ...


To be clear, I don't think it's impossible for the outworker or multiple specialist model of production to turn out a nice suit. But Savile Row firms are outsourcing more work than ever now, and product quality seems to be decreasing. In the case of Kilgour's Shanghai production, the purpose of outsourcing is to decrease cost, not increase quality. Do you know of a firm that began outsourcing work and experienced an _increase_ in quality?

These days, firms that do their work in-house and have individual tailors execute a garment's production from beginning to end are a rarity. Call my a cynic, but I don't think outsourcing is typically for the benefit of the client.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

mafoofan said:


> To be clear, I don't think it's impossible for the outworker or multiple specialist model of production to turn out a nice suit. But Savile Row firms are outsourcing more work than ever now, and product quality seems to be decreasing. In the case of Kilgour's Shanghai production, the purpose of outsourcing is to decrease cost, not increase quality. Do you know of a firm that began outsourcing work and experienced an _increase_ in quality?
> 
> These days, firms that do their work in-house and have individual tailors execute a garment's production from beginning to end are a rarity. Call my a cynic, but I don't think outsourcing is typically for the benefit of the client.


It's not to his or her detriment though. It's often the only way to do business. These days.

Having every everything done in house would be less expensive on the bottom line and a whole lot easier for the firm. Outsourcing is a diadvantage to the firm not it's clients.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

T1Million said:


> What firms did you work for?


Richard James, Gieves and Hawkes.

I have also been the menswear manager at Prada old bond street London, Selfridges Manchester and VP of operations at Duncan Quinn llc.

I had a brief spell as the sales Manager of Timothy Everest's Bespoke House before I set up on my own.


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

shirtmaven,
if one can get a suit by mr ned for the same price as martin greenfield you would say go to mr ned? thats because of the qulaity ? the fit?


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## espanazapatos (Feb 8, 2009)

What would be interesting is to hear from some of the bespoke tailors and shops the expected impact of the global financial meltdown on their businesses. Even with the heavy concentration of wealth in the NYC, these types of luxuries won't continue at such high-end prices. The same is true of luxury watch brands where prices have exploded in recent years. If you've purchased your own fabric, it's probably cheaper to outsource nice custom suits by flying to India or another spot. In the end, it would be dramatically cheaper if you're having a few made.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

espanazapatos said:


> What would be interesting is to hear from some of the bespoke tailors and shops the expected impact of the global financial meltdown on their businesses. Even with the heavy concentration of wealth in the NYC, these types of luxuries won't continue at such high-end prices. The same is true of luxury watch brands where prices have exploded in recent years. If you've purchased your own fabric, it's probably cheaper to outsource nice custom suits by flying to India or another spot. In the end, it would be dramatically cheaper if you're having a few made.


My whole strategy is based around working with the downturn I had lots of offeres for investment about 18 months ago with a view to doing a store. Really glad I did not do that. Right now I work from home and visit clients or see them at a show room.

Most of my clients are savile row clients looking for a less expensive option but without compromising service and quality of the garment.

They are willing to forgo the experience of walking into a fancy store to save themselves a couple of grand.

Hopefully when the dust clears I will be in better shape than most and I will open that nice store.


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

What do you charge?


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

shirtguy said:


> shirtmaven,
> if one can get a suit by mr ned for the same price as martin greenfield you would say go to mr ned? thats because of the qulaity ? the fit?


you can get a decent fabric for under $1000.
Ned will take 3-4 visits the first time.
Carl


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

shirtmaven you didnt answer my question.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

shirtguy said:


> What do you charge?


If you want to know prices private message me. While it is okay to respond to questions I don't want to turn the thread into a big advertisement.


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## Jordan (Mar 2, 2006)

shirtguy said:


> shirtmaven you didnt answer my question.


Can you get a Greenfield for under $1000? I thought they were $1500-2000. Ned is under $1000.


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## T1Million (Feb 13, 2009)

Who is Greenfield?


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## calafro (Jun 16, 2007)

T1Million said:


> Who is Greenfield?


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## epicuresquire (Feb 18, 2009)

great Vid!


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Leonard Logsdail is a Savile Row Cutter who moved to America.

David Reeves- The problem I have with a lot of people making one garment is the loss of ability. If a person can only make button holes, then they don't qualify as a tailor. If you have garments made up by many, are any of them, who make, able to make a whole garment? In the old days a tailor can make all. To lose that standard means there are no tailors. Factory work is not tailoring. No doubt many small time tailors wives did various parts to help bring in more money, but he probably trained his wife to do it and at that quality. No doubt tailoring has been out sourced for hundreds of years, but not the various parts scattered around. In out sourcing beyond, basically, one to three people becomes questionable as to honestly calling it tailoring. And, three would be pushing it. Apprentices learn a bit at a time, but a journyman tailor should do most if not all of the garment construction. It sounds more and more that SR is losing the tailoring trade, which is their loss, and replacing it with less than real tailors to factory workers. Factory clothes are not art clothes, whereas, real tailored clothes are really art clothes. A true cutter sending garments to factories really doesn't make tailored garments. Losening up the standards means you are losing a lot more than you think.


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## T1Million (Feb 13, 2009)

WA said:


> Leonard Logsdail is a Savile Row Cutter who moved to America.
> 
> David Reeves- The problem I have with a lot of people making one garment is the loss of ability. If a person can only make button holes, then they don't qualify as a tailor. If you have garments made up by many, are any of them, who make, able to make a whole garment? In the old days a tailor can make all. To lose that standard means there are no tailors. Factory work is not tailoring. No doubt many small time tailors wives did various parts to help bring in more money, but he probably trained his wife to do it and at that quality. No doubt tailoring has been out sourced for hundreds of years, but not the various parts scattered around. In out sourcing beyond, basically, one to three people becomes questionable as to honestly calling it tailoring. And, three would be pushing it. Apprentices learn a bit at a time, but a journyman tailor should do most if not all of the garment construction. It sounds more and more that SR is losing the tailoring trade, which is their loss, and replacing it with less than real tailors to factory workers. Factory clothes are not art clothes, whereas, real tailored clothes are really art clothes. A true cutter sending garments to factories really doesn't make tailored garments. Losening up the standards means you are losing a lot more than you think.


It's hard to argue with his experience though. He's worked for some great companies and I have always been a fan of Richard James.

After speaking to David last night I am taking a chance on him and going for his mtm.

seeing him today, will let you know how I get on.


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## passingtime (Jun 23, 2005)

WA said:


> David Reeves- The problem I have with a lot of people making one garment is the loss of ability. If a person can only make button holes, then they don't qualify as a tailor. If you have garments made up by many, are any of them, who make, able to make a whole garment? In the old days a tailor can make all. To lose that standard means there are no tailors. Factory work is not tailoring. No doubt many small time tailors wives did various parts to help bring in more money, but he probably trained his wife to do it and at that quality. No doubt tailoring has been out sourced for hundreds of years, but not the various parts scattered around. In out sourcing beyond, basically, one to three people becomes questionable as to honestly calling it tailoring. And, three would be pushing it. Apprentices learn a bit at a time, but a journeyman tailor should do most if not all of the garment construction. It sounds more and more that SR is losing the tailoring trade, which is their loss, and replacing it with less than real tailors to factory workers. Factory clothes are not art clothes, whereas, real tailored clothes are really art clothes. A true cutter sending garments to factories really doesn't make tailored garments. Loosening up the standards means you are losing a lot more than you think.


I don't think anyone is claiming that a person putting in buttonholes is a tailor but on the other hand because that's all they do every day their buttonholes are probably superior to the vast majority of tailors. Usually the outsourcing would be a coat maker, trouser maker, vest maker, finisher, and maybe a presser. The divisions are logical enough and shouldn't effect quality since each tailor gravitates to the part he does best even though he could do all of it.

Over the factory aspect I tend to agree with you where a person is repetitively performing a single task like making up a sleeve that some else attaches and so on. There needs to be continuity for the major pieces (coats, trousers, etc.).


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

passingtime said:


> I don't think anyone is claiming that a person putting in buttonholes is a tailor bit on the other hand because that's all they do every day their buttonholes are probably superior to the vast majority of tailors. Usually the outsourcing would be a coat maker, trouser maker, vest maker, finisher, and maybe a presser. The divisions are logical enough and shouldn't effect quality since each tailor gravitates to the part he does best even though he could do all of it.
> 
> Over the factory aspect I tend to agree with you where a person is repetitively performing a single task like making up a sleeve that some else attaches and so on. There needs to be continuity for the major pieces (coats, trousers, etc.).


I could not agree with you more. :icon_smile:


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## T1Million (Feb 13, 2009)

Well I went to See David the other day and I was very impressed. He's a little eccentric but he really knows his stuff. He showed up in this awesome three piece suit and looked like something right out of the Thomas crown affair! It was so good I asked him if it was Bespoke and he said it was just a made to measure!

I have never worn three piece but I decided to order one. I have gone for a quite boring but nice Dormeuil Amadeus in charcoal grey.

He also had some great Loro Piana shirt cloth and I have ordered a white shirt and a plain navy.

I am going to reserve final judgement until I get my suit and shirts but it looks pretty good so far. I will go for his Bespoke next time if this works out.

I will post pictures when I get my goods and let everyone know how I get on.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

David Reeves said:


> Having every everything done in house would be less expensive on the bottom line and a whole lot easier for the firm. Outsourcing is a diadvantage to the firm not it's clients.


I have no idea how you can pronounce such a claim so absolutely. Outsourcing work doesn't necessarily mean worse results; but many of the best tailors keep their work in-house, and product quality has generally declined with increased outsourcing.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

I stand by my statement.

I don't really see how we are disagreeing about anything here.

I think it all depends on the firm and you can only make a judgement on a case by case basis.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Audi S5 TC said:


> Actually, the current overall starting prices for a full bespoke suit from the following first rate tailors in New York State (not just New York City) are:
> 
> Nino Corvato $4,800
> 
> ...


There are two typos above with the prices above.

Nino Corvato's current overall starting price for a full bespoke suit is $5.4K (not $4.8K, which was the first typo).

Raphael Raffaelli's current overall starting price for a full bespoke suit is $5.7K (not $5.4K, which was the second typo).

All of the other prices above are correct, fortunately. 

Again, before anybody asks or makes any assumptions, I did not contact any of these tailors to get their current prices.

As I said before, some of these current prices are from members of AAAC, LL and SF other than me. And, some of these current prices are from clothing magazines and clothing articles online.


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## passingtime (Jun 23, 2005)

mafoofan said:


> I have no idea how you can pronounce such a claim so absolutely. Outsourcing work doesn't necessarily mean worse results; but many of the best tailors keep their work in-house, and product quality has generally declined with increased outsourcing.


The biggest reason for outsourcing is cost management. By making all the tailors self-employed and putting them on piece-work the Savile Row firms avoid the overheads of having many tailors on their books. The last big SR firm to have their tailors in-house was the previous incarnation of Huntsmans (the current Huntsmans doesn't). I imagine in quality terms it's a wash because the same people are doing the work but are just employed differently.

The downside for the firms is that tailors may now work for several firms and tailors can be 'induced' to push competitors jobs ahead of yours.


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