# Brooks store vs factory store



## gindrinker22 (Sep 11, 2005)

What is the difference between the dress shirts at the brooks retaill store and factory store? Are the ones at the factory store made for those stores or are they irregulars? I thought I was once told the red label in the shirts shows that they were for a factory store. I wore an ocbd last night from a factory store and was just wondering what the difference is. Thanks!


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

If it says "346" on the label then it was made specifically for the outlet store. More and more all the factory store carries are from the 346 line.


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## undarted (Jul 5, 2005)

To be quite honest, the brooks factory stores are disappointing, at least the one that I saw in Jackson, NJ. 

All the blazers and suits were labeled 346, and didn't look too great.

Same with the RL factory store, all the sports coats were of the Lauren line.

I don't recommend this outlet at all.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

I'll buck the trend.

The 346 suits are....suspect. Unimpressive to me. However one of my favorite ties is 346 labeled.

However the oxford cloth button downs are non-iron and at least assembled in the USA. When I was at the retail store, they were made in Malaysia or something, and when they are running a deal you can get two 346 OCBDs for the cost of one regular retail.

I wear a 346 watchband nearly every day (I have three of them).

The pajamas and bathrobes and such are all made in China though.


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## Kaufman (May 15, 2006)

Last time I was in a BB outlet store, I flat out asked the salesman, and he confirmed that ALL of the material in the outlet was specifically made for the outlet stores.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

The 346 I go to does have one or two racks of shirts that are factory seconds or overstocks. I picked up two club collar luxery shirts there for 50% off retail.


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## knittieguy (Jun 12, 2005)

I used to have a BB regular store Olive poplin suit that I loved. I bought it around 1994, and it was well made and looked great. I actually wore it to a number of job interviews. I wore it so much (and in some really rough conditions) that I wore it out, so in 2002 I bought a 346 poplin suit of the same color to replace it. It was crap. Utter crap. The pants were coming apart after wearing it just a few times, and it never draped right, even after getting it altered by a good tailor. It pretty much soured me on Brooks suits altogether, certainly from the outlet store. I have bought a sweater from the outlet that I like quite a bit, and I would buy boxers or a tie from there, but I would never buy a 346 suit again.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Kaufman said:


> Last time I was in a BB outlet store, I flat out asked the salesman, and he confirmed that ALL of the material in the outlet was specifically made for the outlet stores.


At Leesburg corner, if you look carefully you can find main-store ties on the tables and sometimes a few shirts, pjs, or odds and ends. Otherwise, it's all 346-make stuff and IMHO a distinct step down in quality from the main-store goods.

Last fall I did see a main-store tweed hacking jacket and snapped it up, but I was actually paying more than I would have paid had I bought during a main-store end-of-season sale. Really like the jacket, though.


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

Kaufman said:


> Last time I was in a BB outlet store, I flat out asked the salesman, and he confirmed that ALL of the material in the outlet was specifically made for the outlet stores.


This is only the case if every bit of clothing in the store has the 346 label. If it has a label that says "Brooks Brothers 1818" (with suits, the retail clothing could also have a Brooksease, Makers, or Golden Fleece label, or it could have a silver label that says "hand tailored"), it was made for the retail store and is being clearanced out through the outlets. Unfortunately, there are not many workers in the outlet stores who know much of anything about the merchandise, and even the managers of these stores generally don't know all that much. The quantity of retail store merchandise varies from outlet store to outlet store (although the majority of clothing in every BB factory store I've visited has been labeled 346). The Woodbury Common BB factory store and the Jersey Gardens BB factory store generally have a substantial amount of retail store clothing. The Woodbury Common store also gets retail shoes from time to time, including the Peal English and Alden-made shoes. When visiting BB factory outlets outside of the NY area, I've seen various types of clothing from the retail stores, including shirts, ties, sweaters and outerwear, but I've seen very few retail suits and sportcoats in these stores. Some AAAC members have posted here that they have been able to find very little retail merchandise in stores near them.

As to the 346 clothing, while it is never as good as the BB retail merchandise, BB has been working to improve the quality over the last few years. Some of the newer 346 ties I've seen lately have been pretty decent (made in the same workshop as the retail ties, supposedly, and the fabric can be identical as that on retail ties on the newer ties), and the newer 346 oxford cloth button down shirts are much nicer than the older ones, with the biggest difference between them and the retail ones being the sleeve lengths. The 346 shirts have average sleeve lengths (34/35, for example) unlike the retail ocbd's.

With a combination of sales and coupons (or other discounts), I have gotten some pretty great deals on retail merchandise at the BB factory stores.


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## a.dickens (May 10, 2006)

A couple of points.

1-As to shirts being made in Malaysia, all the non-iron shirts are made in Malaysia because the patent for the "pucker-free seams" is held in Malaysia and they are made there. I suppose its cheaper to make the rest of the shirts there too for the 346's. 

2- The OCBD's made for the 346 stores are made out of the same cloth as the retail stores.

3- The suits are made with lower quality cloth, I believe super 100's instead of super 120's and up and are 98% wool and 2% Lycra. Blazers are 100% but are super 100's again.

4- The Merino sweaters are largely the same. I believe that the retail offerings of merino sweaters this year, include a cashmere blend whereas the merino for the 346's are only 100% merino, yielding the same price for retail and 346 100% merino sweaters. 

There are a few more things, however I can't think of them now.


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## gruven (Jun 12, 2006)

Having worked for a very short period of time in a BB outlet store I can tell you a bit about the merchandise.

Most of the clothing that came into the store was under the 346 label and made specifically for the outlet store. However, we did have a pretty constant stock of overstock dress shirts that came from retail. In fact, these shirts tended to be very popular, not because of superior quality, but because one could often find slim fit shirts among the clearance merchandise. (The 346 line does not make slim fit shirts, though the cut of the 346's is a bit slimmer than the retail traditional fits)

The suits, as previously mentioned are 97% wool and 3% lycra and equivalent to super 100s fabric. Good introductory suits and the fact that they are sold as seperates makes it possible (read: _possible_) to wear right off the rack. They do tend to drape fairly well. The poplin suits that we carried are another story though.. ugh..

There are a lot of items that can be found at both stores, like the gabs, tropical wool trousers, blazers, polos, chinos, etc. The main difference between 346 and retail here would be something akin to the thread count.

Also, as previously mentioned, the ties found at the factory store are more than decent. Incidentally, they are made in the US in a factory in Long Island City.

As to the question about the OCBDs.. all I know is that they were not a showcase item. We had them almost hidden on a little shelf in the back of th store. They are non-non-iron, and the fabric felt pretty good, though I never tried one on. I think we carried solid white, light blue, yellow and pink.

Whoever the previous poster was that said that the sales staff didn't know much about the products was fairly on target. The fact is that we usually didn't know what was coming in until the merchandise arrived and the descriptions were more than lacking. It was difficult to pick up any detailed descriptions of the material or construction.

If you have any more questions I'll be glad to answer them. Hope this helps!


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## Haystack (Mar 17, 2005)

For those of you that have access to Consumer Reports, they had a fairly recent review of Outlet Stores and had a little bit about the comparison between regular BB and 346 Outlet wool trousers.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

*Brooks in Mouseland*

I went to the Brook outlet in Orlando back in May. A few weeks earlier I had made some summer purchases from the Brooks website. The Orlando outlet had everything I had purchased from the website, only for a substantially lower price. I wa primarily looking at sumer ties, polos, and clothing for casual Fridays, not suits.


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## jkreusc (Aug 14, 2006)

crazyquik said:


> The pajamas and bathrobes and such are all made in China though.


I don't know exactly what is meant by this, but I can tell you that I wouldn't trade my 346 seersucker bathrobe for anything. Very soft and launders well. My wife says you could calibrate a stopwatch by the amount of time it takes for me to get out of my suit and into that robe in the evening :icon_smile_big:


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

The OCBD's are a feature item at the 346 I go to.

They have the 346 label, averaged sleeves, are of substantial fabric, non-non-iron, 100% cotton, made in USA, and they retail at $50 each but you get a discount for buying 2, and using the 25% off during the various events you can get 2 for $60. And that's a pretty good price. In white, pink, yellow, or light blue.

Might be the best deal in the store.


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## ssspoonah (Jan 3, 2007)

*Brooks basics*

I managed a Brooks factory store for over three years (a job I loved and was sad to leave), and this is what I can tell you about some of the differences:
* TIES. Yes, both 346 and Makers ties are made in the same factory in Long Island City. The differences are that the silk in Makers ties is woven in England, while 346 is woven in Italy. Makers ties are in general a bit wider and the weave of the silk is more dense. Makers ties are also made of a single piece of silk, while 346 are made of seven pieces of silk. This doesn't affect their wear to any real degree. The only way I've been able to tell the difference between a BB #1 tie from retail or from factory is to place them next to each other. 
* Retail product in factory stores: The factory stores carry mostly 346 label product, that is correct. The observation about the merino sweaters is also correct. Two years ago corporate actually issued a memo stating that the retail and factory merino sweaters were the exact same product. Same weave, same maker, same colors, exactly the same, but for the tag in the back: the Makers tag cost $30 more. People pay for a name. I managed one of the larger factory stores in the company and most of the retail clearance product went to smaller stores unless it was at a similar price point as our existing merchandise. So that many of our monthly shirt programs would contain at least one style direct from retail, or our GF polos would have a discontinued retail color included in the wall. There really are only one or two "true" Brooks outlets, one being in Gaffney, NC. They will sell much of the retail product you speak of, but will also sell seconds and mismatches. The best way to find retail product in a factory store is use patience and check labels, or call the stores and have them look for you. You won't really find makers product in the shirt walls, but check shirt tables, tie tables, the blazers and the clearance and you'll find some deals. On dress shirts, check that the label is in red (traditional fit) and that it says EST. 1818 on the bottom of the tag, rather than 346. On ties, the label should be the script Brooks Brothers, rather than the 346 and block Brooks Brothers. The script vs. block lettering also applies to jackets, blazers, polos and most product. 
*346 STORES. this new idea was an odd one at first. Basically what Brooks wanted to do was similar to what RL has done with its Polo brand: create a line that caters to the more casual, trendy and "younger" consumer, without sacrificing store space elsewhere. The 346 stores (NOT the factory stores) are merchandised as such. Think of them as the sort of grandchild of the Brooksgate line of the 1970s: a way to have young men (and women) introduced to the legacy and quality of Brooks Brothers without the heavy investment the high end lines of the retail stores can be. 
*I encourage all of you, whether you've had a great experience at a Brooks store or have found it lacking to let the company or that store know. You wouldn't believe how much your opinion matters to those serious about what they do. Truly. 
I'll answer any Brooks questions you all have to the best of my ability, but know that I am extremely biased.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Thank you, that's very helpful.


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

Thank you and welcome to the forum, ssspoonah.

Your contributions are greatly appreciated.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Great writeups ssspoonah and gruven. There are numerous BB fans, as well as those with a love/hate relationship, who I'm sure will enjoy your future postings.


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## Tom72 (May 8, 2006)

Thanks, spoonah, as if Gaffney SC wasn't already worth the trip for the fireworks stands and the big peach water tower (The Peachoid)! Now, thanks to you we learn it has one of the real BB outlets. I may make the drive up there, I am low on bottle rockets anyway.


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## thinman (Jan 21, 2005)

Special thanks to all the BB-affiliated posters for providing their insights.

I found that the 346 store in Carlsbad, CA would have several areas of the store with "40% off" signs that contained concentrations of merchandise from the mainline stores. Ties were always a mixed bag and required a thorough search. Similarly, in Polo outlets I learned to look for the "Clearance" signs. These observations cut my shopping time considerably.


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## ice (Sep 2, 2005)

I saw some 346 cashmere sweaters at the local Brooks Brothers factory outlet store. Are they the same quality material as in the retail stores?


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## SCADboy (Sep 9, 2006)

*Brooks*

Great input from all of you. I hope this website continues to have this degree of credibility.


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## 18677 (Jan 4, 2006)

*.*

I made a mistake and bought a suit at the outlet. The only thing I buy there now are the ties, which I think are a great value.


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## ssspoonah (Jan 3, 2007)

ice said:


> I saw some 346 cashmere sweaters at the local Brooks Brothers factory outlet store. Are they the same quality material as in the retail stores?


Typically no they aren't. 346 cashmere tends to be a double-ply cashmere while the retail is a three-ply. As the 346 is a true double-ply is still leaps and bounds above the single-ply (or "modified" single-ply some try to pawn off as double-ply) found in many deparment stores or other chains, but in the case of cashmere I recommend going for the retail's version. Good cashmere is worth its price in its wear, durability and comfort. But again, check the tags on the cashmere sweaters at the factory store; I know in my store we often had a few retail sweaters for the factory price and it was a steal.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

I will vouch for the quality of the merino wool sweaters at the factory store. Today's sale price of 40% off resulted in my purchase of a nice navy zip-neck of substantial material. Not bad at $49. 
My 346 suits have not produced such happy results. Both have become misshapen in moderately heavy wear. If you are just getting started in your well-dressed career, 346 is probably ok if you get your price, but move on to BB retail or better yet Paul Stuart when able.:icon_smile: 
The Jackson, NJ outlet mentioned above has its ups and downs indeed, which is probably due to the whims of corporate. Bill


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## matthewgs (Jan 11, 2007)

I'm a total newbie to menswear/suits. So anywho, I'm currently an MBA student and have been wearing an old suit from my college days for the first few months. (In b-school, I wear the suit almost every night for corporate briefings/receptions, oh joy)

I realized that the old suit is kinda well, getting old, so today I went and bought a '346' suit from a BB factory outlet store about 45 miles from here. However, after coming home, I did a search online and found this thread and I feel like I got ripped off now. All in all, I paid ~$320 + taxes for the suit. However, in a side-by-side comparison, the fabric looks much cheaper than my old suit. (but note that I may not be the best judge of what looks cheap) Now my old suit is pretty entry level I think, it's some Enrico Corsini 100% wool, I think I got it from the Men's wearhouse or those types of places.

Now I feel like I'm going to go and return my suit and go to a Jos.A.Bank or a dept store and see what I can get for ~$300.

If $300-400 is my budget, would I be better off getting something on sale at JaB or something in a dept store (or a mens wearhouse)? Or is this about as good as what I'll find at this price?

Thanks.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

jkreusc said:


> I don't know exactly what is meant by this, but I can tell you that I wouldn't trade my 346 seersucker bathrobe for anything. Very soft and launders well. My wife says you could calibrate a stopwatch by the amount of time it takes for me to get out of my suit and into that robe in the evening :icon_smile_big:


Amen to that! During the warmer months, it's the 346 seersucker bathrobe and during the winter, the BB 345 cotton fleece robe...very thick, very warm!


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## Isaac Mickle (Nov 28, 2006)

If suits nearly fit you off the rack, Matthew, and if you are a common size, you might look at the secondhand, vintage, and consignment stores listing on ebay. Solids, however, can be tough to find there. If you are going to buy on ebay, do one of two things. Either buy half a dozen cheap vintage suits, and hope to get one or two keepers. Or pay a wee bit more and buy one from a more reputable seller. If you are a 40R, for example, will serve you much better, over the long term, than something you might buy new for the price. Above all, you must learn and know all of your measurements before you buy on ebay. The more you deviate from an off-the-rack fit, the less likely it is that you will find something secondhand that fits.

Now might be a good time, too, to see what you can do with the same money in the men's store in your better department stores. I have seen some post-New Year's sales. I saw many decent Hart, Shaffner & Marx suits on sale in that price range this past weekend.

You might also try that money in a real men's store. See what they offer you in that range. Take cash and they might be willing to make a special deal, especially if you look like a probable repeat customer.

Search the archives for many, many more threads on the suit-for-$400 question, and good luck.


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## Maggio (Apr 4, 2005)

I like the premise of the outlet stores, the 346 stores and the 346 line that they both offer. Is this the proper line for all people? No. But it is the clothing answer for folks who want to get the BB look at a reduced price and who don't want to wait for the sales at the regular stores. 

The styling that the 346 line offers is similar to what you can get at a regular BB store. It's hard to make a mistake with the 346 line, just as it is hard to make a mistake with the regular BB line. As discussed, the quality fo the fabrics are different, but you can get a supima cotton BD 346 version for $54 regular or at a reduced price on sale. I am not sure the difference between the BB BD supima and the 346 line. 

If I didn't feel comforable buying the regular BB clothing, I would definitely consider the 346 line before JAB, or any of the other competitors.


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## Isaac Mickle (Nov 28, 2006)

I also like the premise of the outlet stores, and I have shopped at the BB outlets since the 1980s. I wear an older made-in-USA 346. The fabric is a bit rough, but I like rough fabrics and it looks good enough and it fits. 

The problem, for me, with the current 346 outlet-store suits is that they have been produced in what appear to be some of the new Jordanian sweatshops. Google "Jordan sweatshop" and you will see what I mean. I not only find those reports repulsive, I also believe that one cannot expect high-quality tailoring from necessarily inexperienced workers laboring in such conditions. So even if one regards the sweatshop reports as sentimental bleeding-heart sensationalism, I think one must admit that it will be many years before such factories get the kinks out of their suit-production methods. If you search the AAAC archives for expert comments on the quality of these Jordanian 346 suits, you will find remarks which suggest that Jordanian guest workers do not know much about making suits. That said, some of the made in China suits are not so horrible, so perhaps the made in Jordan suits will one day show better craftsmanship as well.


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## johnjack11 (Oct 13, 2006)

I have some 346 shirts but mostly 1818, you can tell the difference between the two. If you are lucky you can get the best of both worlds by picking up some 1818 shirts at the outlet. I also have a 346 blazer that has held up well, and it has not been treated very gently!

Your are right about some of the Chinese suits, it is still a gamble to pick one of the better factories.

Hong Kong seems to be a little more predictable! Perhaps when China promised not to impose its socialist economic system they agreed on tailoring too!

No idea about Jordan quality, I will have to do some googling now...



Isaac Mickle said:


> I also like the premise of the outlet stores, and I have shopped at the BB outlets since the 1980s. I wear an older made-in-USA 346. The fabric is a bit rough, but I like rough fabrics and it looks good enough and it fits.
> 
> The problem, for me, with the current 346 outlet-store suits is that they have been produced in what appear to be some of the new Jordanian sweatshops. Google "Jordan sweatshop" and you will see what I mean. I not only find those reports repulsive, I also believe that one cannot expect high-quality tailoring from necessarily inexperienced workers laboring in such conditions. So even if one regards the sweatshop reports as sentimental bleeding-heart sensationalism, I think one must admit that it will be many years before such factories get the kinks out of their suit-production methods. If you search the AAAC archives for expert comments on the quality of these Jordanian 346 suits, you will find remarks which suggest that Jordanian guest workers do not know much about making suits. That said, some of the made in China suits are not so horrible, so perhaps the made in Jordan suits will one day show better craftsmanship as well.


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

johnjack11 said:


> I have some 346 shirts but mostly 1818, you can tell the difference between the two.


Is the 346 made in the USA, johnjack? The reason I ask is that I have seen some 346 OCBCD's that were made in the USA (these are the newer shirts) and while their are differences between the two (for example, average sleeve sizes (for example, 34/35) and a less full cut), the differences are not nearly as great as it used to be. I was told by a store manager that the fabric was the same, and they did at the very least look very similar.


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## johnjack11 (Oct 13, 2006)

SMR,

The 346 shirts I have say made in Malaysia! The 1818 versions feel similar but not quite the same (my tailor noticed the difference). There was more cloth in the 1818, as it needed more altering than the 346!

While the 346 is not a slim fit, it seems to have less fabric! At least on the two I was comparing, which were essentially the same shirt...with the differences mentioned above.

I have an opportunity to get some custom Hong Kong shirts soon, and I am very curious about how that will work out. The other merchandise I have seen seems to be top notch. We will see though!

Hope that answers your questions.

Jack


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## Mel (Dec 12, 2006)

*non iron 346 shirts*

The outlet 346 non irons look the same with the proper collar roll but the reduced thread count of the fabric makes these shirts wear out quicker than the retail one do (they also tend to show wear sooner than the oxford non non iron cloth) any one else find this?


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## johnjack11 (Oct 13, 2006)

I have not noticed them wearing out at an alarming rate, I have one that is two years old, hits the rotation every other week. Looks good still! I put them in the "hand wash" mode of the washing machine, which probably helps!

Jack


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## ice (Sep 2, 2005)

Isaac Mickle said:


> The problem, for me, with the current 346 outlet-store suits is that they have been produced in what appear to be some of the new Jordanian sweatshops. Google "Jordan sweatshop" and you will see what I mean. I not only find those reports repulsive, I also believe that one cannot expect high-quality tailoring from necessarily inexperienced workers laboring in such conditions. So even if one regards the sweatshop reports as sentimental bleeding-heart sensationalism, I think one must admit that it will be many years before such factories get the kinks out of their suit-production methods. If you search the AAAC archives for expert comments on the quality of these Jordanian 346 suits, you will find remarks which suggest that Jordanian guest workers do not know much about making suits. That said, some of the made in China suits are not so horrible, so perhaps the made in Jordan suits will one day show better craftsmanship as well.


The 346 suits I saw most recently were made in Israel.

In fact I saw one stack of pants, all the same model and colour, and they were all made in different places. I remember seeing labels for Israel, Malaysia, Canada, and Jordan.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Not to confuse an issue that is pretty easy to understand...but I went to a BB Factory Store today with full knowledge of the fact that everything in there was different from the merchandise found at the regular stores.

It was interesting to see items made to look extremely similar to items sold at the regular store, but not quite as nicely. They had short sleeved polo shirts marked as 'Golden Fleece' Polos for '2 for 89'. If you just saw that label and the shirts you'd think they were the same, but if you are very familiar with the Polos at the regular stores you would notice that the fabric is not nearly as nice. They had several sweaters that were similar to ones from last season, but not quite as refined. It kind of freaks you out, makes you wary that you are being hoodwinked.

If you really stop and consider how the game of outlet shopping works, these companies must be making money hand over fist off this stuff.

I did, however, find some things labeled '346' that were in fact the exact same is items sold at the regular store. In this case it was some rugby shirts. I spent a long time comparing the ones I picked up today to one I got at the regular store 2 years ago and I can say that they are identical. The stitching, fabric, everything was the same.

It's my hunch that items like this that are exactly the same are rare and that almost all '346' items are basically knockoffs of regular BB merchandise.

Anyway, the best Brooks bargain remains the Dec 26th sale.

Danny


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## Ricardo-CL (Mar 31, 2009)

I start by telling that my comment might be less than worthless for most people here, but anyway, who knows if any of you might drop in Chile sometime.... 

Here the story is quite different, there are indeed a lot of 346 stuff, nice packed and new on the racks, however, there is another bunch of returned or open items with discounts that range from 40 to 70%, and all these are really Brooks Brothers, some Made in USA, others in Malaysia, etc. The only catch is that the label has been marked in order to avoid people to go to the store and change them again. I've gotten myself a lot of dress shirts, and as I'm rather small (15-32), I get a lot of 15-34 shirts and then get their sleeves shortened with my taylor. Prices are usually between 20 and 30 USD.
The same happens with suits, but I've never bought one though, I find that the cloth that BB uses is not as good as the Chilean on the average suits.


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