# Dutch Oven recommendations?



## tocqueville

Here's a random one for the forum, but perhaps there are some gourmets among us.

The Mrs. wants a dutch oven. The one everyone loves is made by Le Creuset, which is crazy expensive, ca. $250 for the size I'm interested in. Everything else is half the cost or less and claims to be "just as good" or "almost as good" as Le Creuset. Have any of you any opinions on the subject? Do I have to bite the bullet and cough of the cash for a Le Creuset, or are any of the others really "good enough"?


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## JohnRov

I have one made by Innova that has seen heavy use for years and looks none the worse for wear. Other than that I have nothing to compare it to.


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## Realalefan

Staub is very good, still expensive but less than LC, at least at Williams Sonoma. If you're near a WS outlet bargains can be had for both. The second-quality LC at TJ Maxx, Marshalls, or LC outlets is usually what I go for, but not as a gift.


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## pdf

*Try Staub*

The Le Creuset will last you a really long time (decades). It's also dishwasher safe. I find the 9qt oval most useful. So far it's cost me about $5/yr and looks like it did the day we bought it. Staub is just as good, just as French (Alsatian), but cheaper. For the 13qt size, I went with Staub. Shop around on the internet for both brands. There are really cheap Chinese knockoffs, which I haven't tried. I'm nervous about some factories' habit of sneaking heavy metals into glazes if the factory owner thinks it will save a couple of cents (or just because they don't care, or their supplier is cheating them). Since you may be cooking acidic foods for hours, I would stick with a European manufacturer.


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## hardline_42

I have both the Staub and Le Creuset. I find the LC to be the superior product even thought it's styling is a bit dated compared to the Staub. However, I only ever buy seconds at the outlet (cosmetic blemishes only) and pay what I think is a reasonable price for what I'm getting.

Keep in mind, though, that I consider Le Creuset the best choice for the type of cooking that I PERSONALLY do. Staub has a rough, black enameled interior surface that they claim "seasons" into a non-stick surface (glass with a rough surface into which carbonized oil settles). The whole point of enameled cast iron is for bits of whatever protein you're searing to STICK to the sides to create a fond that you can then deglaze into a sauce. The "non-stick" claim they make is useless to me and the dark interior makes it difficult to monitor the progress of the fond. For non-stick cooking, I prefer a well-seasoned bare cast iron pan, not enameled. Therefore, I find Staub's design to be different just for the sake of competing against LC. I do think they're very attractive, come in great colors and I use the smaller sizes (mini-cocottes) to serve individual portions of meals where I would otherwise use a ramekin. Really though, I think you need to find out a little bit more about how the Mrs. plans to use it. If she plans to boil spaghetti in it, there are cheaper, better options. If she wants to use it for baking bread, a bare cast iron dutch oven works just as well. If she likes to cook dishes where meat is browned on the stove and then slow cooked in liquid in the oven, there's nothing better than enameled cast iron.

As far as less expensive options, about three years ago, America's Test Kitchen did a very favorable review on the Tramontina line of enameled cast iron available at Walmart as well as some of the products by Lodge, both of which are far cheaper. Despite the fact that Lodge makes it cast iron products in the USA, both of the enameled cast iron products are made in China. I try to avoid enameled cookware from there since they seem to have a penchant for using lead as a binder for just about everything.


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## spielerman

hardline_42 said:


> I have both the Staub and Le Creuset. I find the LC to be the superior product even thought it's styling is a bit dated compared to the Staub. However, I only ever buy seconds at the outlet (cosmetic blemishes only) and pay what I think is a reasonable price for what I'm getting.
> 
> Keep in mind, though, that I consider Le Creuset the best choice for the type of cooking that I PERSONALLY do. Staub has a rough, black enameled interior surface that they claim "seasons" into a non-stick surface (glass with a rough surface into which carbonized oil settles). The whole point of enameled cast iron is for bits of whatever protein you're searing to STICK to the sides to create a fond that you can then deglaze into a sauce. The "non-stick" claim they make is useless to me and the dark interior makes it difficult to monitor the progress of the fond. For non-stick cooking, I prefer a well-seasoned bare cast iron pan, not enameled. Therefore, I find Staub's design to be different just for the sake of competing against LC. I do think they're very attractive, come in great colors and I use the smaller sizes (mini-cocottes) to serve individual portions of meals where I would otherwise use a ramekin. Really though, I think you need to find out a little bit more about how the Mrs. plans to use it. If she plans to boil spaghetti in it, there are cheaper, better options. If she wants to use it for baking bread, a bare cast iron dutch oven works just as well. If she likes to cook dishes where meat is browned on the stove and then slow cooked in liquid in the oven, there's nothing better than enameled cast iron.
> 
> As far as less expensive options, about three years ago, America's Test Kitchen did a very favorable review on the Tramontina line of enameled cast iron available at Walmart as well as some of the products by Lodge, both of which are far cheaper. Despite the fact that Lodge makes it cast iron products in the USA, both of the enameled cast iron products are made in China. I try to avoid enameled cookware from there since they seem to have a penchant for using lead as a binder for just about everything.


+1 on the above as advice and I would say Tramontina is the way to go, cheap, and cooks just as well. Also you could be patient and look on eBay. Lot's of top notch defunct companies and excellent shape items available from the likes of descoware, janko, dru holland, griswold, copco, nacco, cousances, etc..

On a side note for anyone else ..if you want a cook set, head over to the Walmart website and buy the Tramontian Triply set or individual pieces. Many pieces work better than allclad just as a result of the handles work better. Americas test kitchen gave it great reviews too.


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## Orsini

If there is any hint of arthritis, then cast iron is too heavy.


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## hardline_42

Orsini said:


> If there is any hint of arthritis, then cast iron is too heavy.


This is true. Even for a perfectly healthy person, the larger sizes are very ungainly and even more difficult to handle when full. Unfortunately, there isn't a lighter substitute for cast iron.


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## nolan50410

I cook quite a bit, usually 3 nights a week, and use dutch ovens on a regular basis. On Monday night a made a goulash in one of them. I have two inexpensive ones, one from Target and the other from Costco, and use them for everything from beef burgundy to bolognese sauce to taco meat. I've never felt that I wasn't getting adequate performance out of my two cheap ones.


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## hardline_42

nolan50410 said:


> I cook quite a bit, usually 3 nights a week, and use dutch ovens on a regular basis. On Monday night a made a goulash in one of them. I have two inexpensive ones, one from Target and the other from Costco, and use them for everything from beef burgundy to bolognese sauce to taco meat. I've never felt that I wasn't getting adequate performance out of my two cheap ones.


Nolan, I'm glad you're getting good use from the cheaper models. Cast iron cookware isn't rocket science. However, for anyone going this route, please check that a) the model you're buying has a tight fitting lid (this goes for expensive brand seconds as well) and b) the enamel coating is even and consistent on the entire surface (no chips or thin spots). The times I've handled the cheaper models at the store, they've been lacking in these departments. The castings are generally much heavier and lumpy (bad news for those with weak arms) with rough, chip-prone finishes. At the very least, buy them from a b&m and not on-line so you can pick out the best of the bunch. And keep in mind that the expensive brands (LC/Staub) have lifetime warranties while customer service for some of the cheaper brands is spotty.

As with most things on this forum, you have to weigh the cost of spending the money up front for something that will last decades, will be replaced by the manufacturer if it should fail at any time, will be fought over by your kids and is generally a joy to use, or spending less money for something that will serve it's purpose for the moment and be discarded in 3 years. I'll leave it to each person's needs and budget to determine that.


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## tocqueville

If it matters, the Mrs. intends to do lots of browning and cooking with meat.

I love the fact that my random question generated so many thoughtful responses!


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## hardline_42

^^ If that's the case, then enameled cast iron is the right choice.


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## Gromson

My vote is to go Trad on it--Griswold cast iron duch oven. You can get them off eBay and they are wonderful. I've actually got one of the precursors to Griswold, an Erie, dutch oven that was made in the 1880s. It's still the best thing ever for making a pot roast. Griswold were made up until the 1950s and are built like tanks. Sure, you may have to work a bit to season it up, but if it's cared for it will last many lifetimes. 

It's also Trad!


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## hardline_42

^^ Griswolds are top notch! Nothing compares to the machined finish of those old pans and ovens. Congrats on that "ERIE" oven. Those earlier 'wolds are getting harder and harder to come by. I have a collection of skillets myself but they have less desirable logos. 

Unfortunately for the OP, bare cast iron dutchies don't have the same cooking characteristics as the enameled kind. They're great for searing but not so much for caramelization, they're reactive with acidic foods and liquids (tomato or wine based sauces are a no-no) and they tend to hold flavors. Plus, they come in all kinds of pretty colors, as long as it's black!


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## 12345Michael54321

I have both a Le Creuset dutch oven, and a Lodge dutch oven. I have nothing bad to say about Le Creuset, but honestly the Lodge has given me perfectly fine service since I bought it last year. I got it via amazon; here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Color-...1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1320866502&sr=1-1

True, it's only been since last year, so maybe the Lodge piece won't stand the test of time. But I do know that Lodge cast iron skillets last, so I've got some faith in the company's products. Besides, it's a dutch oven; it's not the space shuttle. Designing and manufacturing a quality dutch oven just can't be all that complicated and expensive an undertaking.
-- 
Michael


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## tocqueville

Thanks for the thumbs up on the Lodge. It's hard to account for the price difference between Lodge and Le Creuset, other than that the Creuset uses pricey French labor--unionized, probably--and Lodge uses Chinese labor. Either one is too expensive (to be worth it) or the other is too cheap (to be good). Or perhaps not.



12345Michael54321 said:


> I have both a Le Creuset dutch oven, and a Lodge dutch oven. I have nothing bad to say about Le Creuset, but honestly the Lodge has given me perfectly fine service since I bought it last year. I got it via amazon; here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Color-...1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1320866502&sr=1-1
> 
> True, it's only been since last year, so maybe the Lodge piece won't stand the test of time. But I do know that Lodge cast iron skillets last, so I've got some faith in the company's products. Besides, it's a dutch oven; it's not the space shuttle. Designing and manufacturing a quality dutch oven just can't be all that complicated and expensive an undertaking.
> --
> Michael


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## 12345Michael54321

tocqueville said:


> It's hard to account for the price difference between Lodge and Le Creuset, other than that the Creuset uses pricey French labor--unionized, probably--and Lodge uses Chinese labor.


Well, partially that, and partially the fact that Le Creuset has the name. People will pay a price premium for the name, particularly if the product is actually good - not necessarily head and shoulders above the competition, but at least genuinely quite good.

Not that there's anything wrong with the Lodge brand name. Lodge has long (the Tennessee based company dates back to the tail end of the 1800s) been a major and well regarded player with regard to cast iron cookware. But some people just need the name, and Le Creuset is the name.

Anyway, as for the Lodge dutch oven being Chinese-made, a discussion at amazon - https://www.amazon.com/Lodge-Produc...2EYP/Tx25O9OTGIXZ0UX/1/ref=cm_cd_ef_rt_tft_tp - touched upon this concern. According to one discussion participant who had misgivings about using Chinese-made cookware, a Lodge representative got back to her with the following:

The steps below are taken in an effort to ensure that these items are of 
the highest quality possible, and we will continue to monitor all Lodge 
enamel cookware very closely.

* Representatives from the upper management level of our Company, 
as well as some of our Manufacturing experts travel to China several 
times a year to inspect the manufacturing facilities and the process 
being used to make sure that our cookware is being produced per our 
stringent guidelines. 
* A third party American company located in China has been 
enlisted to perform random inspections of the Chinese manufacture's 
facilities and process. 
* We periodically send imported product samples to independent 
labs for analysis. 
* Porcelain enamel is a glass coating, not lead paint, and is used 
for a variety of food related purposes, including cookware, pottery and 
grills. Porcelain enamel has proven to be safe and attractive coating 
for cookware.

Personally, I want to know why there's not some Dutch company dominating this market niche, on advertising claims that "The best Dutch ovens are Dutch. Not French and not Chinese." Sure, it's a largely meaningless claim, but so are most advertising slogans.

Anyway, been using both companies' dutch ovens for a while now, and have nothing bad to say about either one. If your wife needs the Le Creuset name, get the Le Creuset and be happy. If she doesn't much care about brand name, buy the Lodge, and save yourself a couple of hundred bucks. Or buy based on color. That's how my sister chooses cars.
-- 
Michael


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## Bjorn

I have a le creuset and it seems to hold up very well. It does what it does (see hardlines post above) very well. I would definitely recommend it.


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## tocqueville

I wonder what keeps old American companies like lodge from digging in and making stuff themselves--and charging a lot more--rather than go offshore and down market. Lodge might have gone up market...


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## 12345Michael54321

tocqueville said:


> I wonder what keeps old American companies like lodge from digging in and making stuff themselves--and charging a lot more--rather than go offshore and down market.


Market analysis. Charging more per item will often result in greatly reduced profits - sometimes, even losses. I'm guessing that careful analysis of their situation led Lodge to conclude that they had to hit a certain price point in order to remain viable. And that price point couldn't be achieved via domestic manufacture.

Companies rarely choose to move production to China out of some twisted, evil desire to swell American unemployment rolls. They do it because they know that if they don't, they will have to increase prices. Which would often result in their competition - which did move production to China or Vietnam or wherever - being able to underprice them, and steal market share.

Because lots of people talk about their willingness to pay more for items made in the USA, but when you get right down to it, most people care more about the lowest price, than about country of origin. No, not everyone. But most people.

What, you thought Walmart grew big and rich due to its commitment to selling only the finest quality US made products, and never mind if they cost a little more?
-- 
Michael


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## tocqueville

We're getting badly off topic.

That said, I'm not accusing anyone of anything sinister. I just am under the impression that European firms are more likely to deal with competition by moving up the value chain whereas American firms do the opposite. Le Creuset and Staub have aimed high. Lodge and the others did not. Look at all the German firms that make all sorts of high-end, high-quality, high-value goods, everything from crazy sophisticated medical imaging equipment to Faber-castell pencils. American firms--again, I'm generalizing based on my own impressions--chose not to. I wonder if the German firms are really less profitable...or is there something about the way German firms run or are financed that gives them a greater appetite for lower profit margins? Different corporate culture? Different tax structure? Or am I completely mistaken in my generalization? I wonder how Allen Edmonds made the decision to take the path they took rather than follow all the other great American shoe companies off-shore and down-market? I also wonder if AE is more profitable relative to its peers than it was back when they, too, produced domestically and occupied more or less the same part of the market.

At any rate, from a consumer's point of view, the economics are compelling. The price of the Lodge is awfully hard to walk away from. It's $50 versus $250. I know that for a pair of shoes, it's a no brainer, since we're talking about the difference between a pair of Allen Edmonds and some rubber-soled garbage one finds a Payless. In this case, it seems that the Chinese Lodge is probably more than up to the task. We shall see. Economics aside, this is also about what pleases the Mrs...



12345Michael54321 said:


> Market analysis. Charging more per item will often result in greatly reduced profits - sometimes, even losses. I'm guessing that careful analysis of their situation led Lodge to conclude that they had to hit a certain price point in order to remain viable. And that price point couldn't be achieved via domestic manufacture.
> 
> Companies rarely choose to move production to China out of some twisted, evil desire to swell American unemployment rolls. They do it because they know that if they don't, they will have to increase prices. Which would often result in their competition - which did move production to China or Vietnam or wherever - being able to underprice them, and steal market share.
> 
> Because lots of people talk about their willingness to pay more for items made in the USA, but when you get right down to it, most people care more about the lowest price, than about country of origin. No, not everyone. But most people.
> 
> What, you thought Walmart grew big and rich due to its commitment to selling only the finest quality US made products, and never mind if they cost a little more?
> --
> Michael


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## WouldaShoulda

tocqueville said:


> The Mrs. wants a dutch oven.


I gave the Mrs. a "dutch oven" last night.

She hated it!! (I LMAO)

I've watched this for two days and just could not resist a fart under the covers reference any longer.

I'm so ashamed.


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## hardline_42

tocqueville said:


> At any rate, from a consumer's point of view, the economics are compelling. The price of the Lodge is awfully hard to walk away from. It's $50 versus $250. I know that for a pair of shoes, it's a no brainer, since we're talking about the difference between a pair of Allen Edmonds and some rubber-soled garbage one finds a Payless. In this case, it seems that the Chinese Lodge is probably more than up to the task. We shall see. Economics aside, *this is also about what pleases the Mrs.*..


If your Mrs. is anything like mine, that little "C" with a bullseye in it might be the deciding factor. No matter how good a deal I get or how alike the products are, sometimes only a certain name brand will do. Keep in mind though, that this isn't like Tiffany silver, where .925 silver is the same across the board and the upcharge is for the blue box. When it comes to cast iron, impurities in the casting can create hot spots that ruin the food and never cook well. Poor control over the enameling process can also spell doom. Lodge seems to be a good company to deal with and they have a lifetime warranty as well, so there is less risk than buying a lesser known brand. But LC and Staub can be found deeply discounted at places like Marshall's and TJ Max, and better quality seconds can be found at the LC Factory stores. Check these first, find out what they have available in the size you need and see if it fits your budget. I've never paid more than $130 for an LC dutch oven and even the seconds still have the same factory warranty and function perfectly.

Let us know how what you decide and what your results were. Some pictures of food wouldn't be bad either!


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## tocqueville

My wife, who was not familiar with the term dutch oven, googled it. Of course, what she found was the Urban Dictionary definition, which had us both laughing.



WouldaShoulda said:


> I gave the Mrs. a "dutch oven" last night.
> 
> She hated it!! (I LMAO)
> 
> I've watched this for two days and just could not resist a fart under the covers reference any longer.
> 
> I'm so ashamed.


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## Andy

I've had the Le Creuset Enameled Cast-Iron for many years. It's great. I noticed that every chef/cook on Cooking channel and Food Network had one.

I had a small Dutch (or French) oven from Martha Steward that was recalled last month because it exploded in ovens!

If you buy from Amazon - make sure you go though the banner on the AskAndy site:

https://www.amazon.com/b?node=14218...yaboutclothes.com/ADVS/SelectedMerchants.html


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## Oldsarge

I use black cast iron a lot but when it comes to braising for hours on the simmer plate in the rear of the (vintage Wedgewood) gas stove, nothing beats my LC. And Thomas Keller has a killer recipe for roast chicken on a bed of winter vegetables that really doesn't work in anything else. Great product and well worth the price. I got mine on sale from Williams Sonoma.


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## WouldaShoulda

tocqueville said:


> My wife, who was not familiar with the term dutch oven, googled it. Of course, what she found was the Urban Dictionary definition, which had us both laughing.


They sure know how to turn a phrase over there.

Definition 2 is how I roll!!


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## 12345Michael54321

Andy said:


> I noticed that every chef/cook on Cooking channel and Food Network had one.


Yup, the company sponsors lots of cooking shows. All Clad does it, too.



> I had a small Dutch (or French) oven from Martha Steward that was recalled last month because it exploded in ovens!


I believe I speak not just for myself, but also for my 10 year old nephew, when I say "Best cookware-related Christmas present EVER." 
-- 
Michael


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## hardline_42

^^ I believe Pyrex also has a similar 'splosion problem. Same with Chinette. It doesn't break often, but when it does, it erupts into a spectacular display of microscopic razor sharp slivers.


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## TheGreatTwizz

WouldaShoulda said:


> I gave the Mrs. a "dutch oven" last night.
> 
> She hated it!! (I LMAO)
> 
> I've watched this for two days and just could not resist a fart under the covers reference any longer.
> 
> I'm so ashamed.


I opened this thread, and not realizing it was in the food section, thought the same.

My recommendation is for a polyester comforter, which better holds in the scent.

I, too, couldn't resist!


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## 12345Michael54321

hardline_42 said:


> ^^ I believe Pyrex also has a similar 'splosion problem.


But Pyrex was used in the creation of the 200 inch mirror blank for the Hale telescope on Mount Palomar. The Hale telescope is awesome, so a little explosion problem scarcely diminishes the incredible wonderfulness of Pyrex.



> Same with Chinette. It doesn't break often, but when it does, it erupts into a spectacular display of microscopic razor sharp slivers.


That's interesting. It kind of reminds me of how NASA specified that wristwatches worn on space missions were required to have acrylic crystals, because while sapphire crystals are less prone to scratching, they can be shattered. And when shattered, they break into tiny fragments that would be hazardous in a zero gravity environment. (As I don't engage in much space travel, and have few extended experiences with zero-g environments, it's not a major issue for me, personally.)
-- 
Michael


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## Bjorn

12345Michael54321 said:


> But Pyrex was used in the creation of the 200 inch mirror blank for the Hale telescope on Mount Palomar. The Hale telescope is awesome, so a little explosion problem scarcely diminishes the incredible wonderfulness of Pyrex.
> 
> That's interesting. It kind of reminds me of how NASA specified that wristwatches worn on space missions were required to have acrylic crystals, because while sapphire crystals are less prone to scratching, they can be shattered. And when shattered, they break into tiny fragments that would be hazardous in a zero gravity environment. (As I don't engage in much space travel, and have few extended experiences with zero-g environments, it's not a major issue for me, personally.)
> --
> Michael


Many military watches also have that since they don't want crystal fragments getting into everywhere... Scratches are manly, disrupting the fresh air flow thingamagog in your submarine with crystal fragments, not so much.


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## challer

I've tried them all. If you want cheap, get the Lodge and be happy. If you are going to spend, it is Staub all the way. The design of the lid is key. It keeps the moisture in like no other. So if you are braising, Staub is the one. Lodge is the budget approach. You will see LC on TV because the white interior highlights the food and the black Staub interior does not. That is all there is too it. In two or three years, the LC will be stained and look dinghy.


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## JerseyJohn

"America's Test Kitchen" did a review of them a while back. They still liked the Le Creuset the best (I have one about 30 years old and it's still pretty much like new), but found Tramontina to be almost as good for around $40-$50. They liked Lodge, too, and its quality is a little better established. I also remember they liked the Mario Batali one for $70-$80. Note that they only tested the cooking properties, not the long-term longevity.


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## hardline_42

challer said:


> I've tried them all. If you want cheap, get the Lodge and be happy. If you are going to spend, it is Staub all the way. The design of the lid is key. It keeps the moisture in like no other. So if you are braising, Staub is the one. Lodge is the budget approach. You will see LC on TV because the white interior highlights the food and the black Staub interior does not. That is all there is too it. In two or three years, the LC will be stained and look dinghy.


Challer, I have Staub and I find the lid design to be poorly executed. In fact, I think Staub's identity is to be the "anti-Le Creuset" and their features are reactionary but not fully thought out. Here's why, starting from the top:

- Stainless steel knob: Everybody complains about the fact that LC comes with a phenolic resin knob that's only good to 375*F (the stainless knob is available separately) while the Staub has a s/s knob from the factory that's good to 500*. Except that when braising in the oven for long periods of time, you rarely go over 300*. But while on the stove, the s/s knob conducts massive amounts of heat while the resin knob doesn't. So, with the Staub you have a knob that is useful if you're baking bread, but is overkill for most oven cooking and burns your hand on the stove. So, I guess the Staub is geared towards oven cooking, right? Wrong.

- Self basting spikes: I'm sure lot's of other people are sold on the flat, self-basting lid of the Staub over the classic, smooth, domed lid of the LC. I know I was. Except that self-basting lids only work on the stovetop (where I kept needing to use a potholder because of the danged stainless knob). Once you put it in the oven, the lid is the same temperature as the rest of the pot and the self-basting feature doesn't work. Also, certain meals don't benefit from pools of water on the surface.

- Flat, excessively heavy lid: It works well for self-basting but holds no steam volume in the oven. And while the heavier lid holds a good seal, it makes the pot more difficult to handle and doesn't aid in the oven's thermal properties.

- Black interior: Yes, the light interior of the LC makes food look good on TV. It also makes it look good on your stove. This is convenient when you need to see your oil start to darken and get wavy. Or if you need to see the edges of your garlic start to brown. Or getting the right color on your onions. This is much more difficult to do in a black interior. Not impossible, of course. As for the staining, both pots are lined with the same material. The stains are there in the Staub, you just can't see them!

Now don't get me wrong, the Staub is a fine product and I use mine when I need to braise something on my stove if my oven is occupied. It's beautiful to look at but it's not very versatile. And if in the future I have a need for specialized pot for some serious self-basting action, I'll probably get the LC doufeu which really makes it rain in there.


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## David J. Cooper

I have a Staub, Le Cruset and a Lodge. The Staub and Le Cruset are great for braising or soups and go from oven to stove to table. Both are great but I probably like the Staub the best.

The Lodge only gets used for baking loaves of Jim Lahey's no Knead bread. For this it is fantastic. Otherwise it's only use would be for a production of the Scottish Play. BTW my Staub is white.


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## tocqueville

David J. Cooper said:


> I have a Staub, Le Cruset and a Lodge. The Staub and Le Cruset are great for braising or soups and go from oven to stove to table. Both are great but I probably like the Staub the best.
> 
> The Lodge only gets used for baking loaves of Jim Lahey's no Knead bread. For this it is fantastic. Otherwise it's only use would be for a production of the Scottish Play. BTW my Staub is white.


Why do you like the Staub the best?


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## jwooten

I have a little experience with Le Creuset(none with Staub); however, I've been cooking with "black" cast iron of the Lodge and other variety since I was 12. I prefer black fresh unseasoned cast iron that I can imbue a seasoned non stick coating to. All of my dutch ovens are Lodge and they do everything I desire; however, most of what I have is older Lodge and is alot thicker/heavier than the stuff they've started carrying at walmart and what not. I've handled and cooked on Le Creuset a couple times and if I were getting it for someone else who doesn't necessarily deal with uncoated cast iron on a regular basis, It's definitely my recommendation. The price difference doesn't outway the ease of use factor of enameled( and I don't on principle of safety by any coated cook ware out of China). I have no useful knowledge on Staub, but when making soups, caramelizing or braising a non-black interior is very beneficial. 

If you do decide to by an "outlet" Le Creuset insure that the enamel is only discolored and not chipped or improperly cured.


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## eagle2250

Our "go-to" Dutch Ovens are five and eight quart Calphalon, enameled, cast iron covered pots. They were much more affordable than Le Crueset's and they perform their expected functions in an unexpectedly efficeint manner! :thumbs-up:


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## tocqueville

Le Creuset is running a 25-35% off sale in store right now. I think that about settles it.


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## Bjorn

The dark red color is nice.


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## tocqueville

Yes. And the "flame".


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## tocqueville

Thanks to all of you who wrote about cast iron on this thread. It prompted me to start reading up on cast iron skillets. I'm sold!


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## David J. Cooper

I just prfer the look of the Staub. Keep in mind that cast iron pans aren't that great for lighter sauces or reductions. They can discolour the sauce or worse leave a metallic taste.


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## RM Bantista

Many very good points made in this discussion, which carries a great deal of information by informed and thoughtful observers. As a modest contribution, Rachel Ray has a branded product which is well made and inexpensive. It will not serve all users for all purposes but is a good value, well made item for those who may not need anything more than the size offered.
regards,
rudy


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## tocqueville

By the way, we bought the oven at Le Creuset yesterday, and the saleswoman informed us that there was another promotion that brought our total discount to 40%. It's going on until thanksgiving.


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## Andy

Big Brother?

I just got this e-mail from Amazon : (photos didn't show up)

Customers who have shown an interest in Dutch ovens might like to see our best sellers. 


wlmailhtml:{99F47D56-ABA1-4710-B1D0...p/B000N501BK/ref=pe_77980_21807570_pe_epc_dp1 
Lodge Color 6-Quart Dutch Oven, Island Spice Red
by Lodge 

*List Price: $98.00 *
*Price: $49.97 *
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wlmailhtml:{99F47D56-ABA1-4710-B1D0...p/B00063RWYI/ref=pe_77980_21807570_pe_epc_dp2 
Lodge Logic L8DOL3 Pre-Seasoned 5-Quart Dutch Oven with Loop Handles
by Lodge 

*List Price: $43.99 *
*Price: $28.97 *
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wlmailhtml:{99F47D56-ABA1-4710-B1D0...p/B00008GKDW/ref=pe_77980_21807570_pe_epc_dp3 
Lodge Logic 8-Quart Pre-Seasoned Cast-Iron Camp Dutch Oven
by Lodge Logic 

*List Price: $76.99 *
*Price: $56.22 *
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wlmailhtml:{99F47D56-ABA1-4710-B1D0...p/B000LEXR0K/ref=pe_77980_21807570_pe_epc_dp4 
Lodge Logic 5-Quart Double Dutch Oven and Casserole with Skillet Cover
by Lodge 

*List Price: $50.00 *
*Price: $34.97 *
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wlmailhtml:{99F47D56-ABA1-4710-B1D0...p/B0000TPDJE/ref=pe_77980_21807570_pe_epc_dp5 
Lodge Camp Dutch Oven Lid Lifter
by Lodge 

*List Price: $15.00 *
*Price: $14.72 *
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wlmailhtml:{99F47D56-ABA1-4710-B1D0...p/B0012N7G60/ref=pe_77980_21807570_pe_epc_dp6 
Lodge Color 6-Quart Dutch Oven, Emerald Green
by Lodge Manufacturing Company 

*List Price: $98.00 *
*Price: $49.97 *
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wlmailhtml:{99F47D56-ABA1-4710-B1D0...p/B003YL3MJS/ref=pe_77980_21807570_pe_epc_dp7 
Simply Calphalon 7-Quart Nonstick Dutch Oven with Cover
by Calphalon 

*List Price: $80.00 *
*Price: $39.99 *
*You Save: $40.01 (50%) *
https://www.amazon.com/b?node=14218...yaboutclothes.com/ADVS/SelectedMerchants.html


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## toadbra

I personally own the Le Creuset and would highly recommend it. In fact, I have it two different sizes.

My recommendation is buy the one your wife wants.

Good luck!


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## Earl of Ormonde

The casserole pot (US - Dutch oven) I use is an old cast iron French thing from the 50s, very heavy, very deep, still works wonderfully. My parents were given it as part of a set when they got married. Can't say I'm a fan of all these colourfully
painted ones or the aluminium versions.


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## hardline_42

Earl of Ormonde said:


> The casserole pot (US - Dutch oven) Can't say I'm a fan of all these colourfully
> painted ones or the aluminium versions.


The "colourful paint" is actually glass adhered to the surface of the cast iron. They share some similar thermal properties but are meant for a different type of cooking,


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## Earl of Ormonde

hardline_42 said:


> The "colourful paint" is actually glass adhered to the surface of the cast iron. They share some similar thermal properties but are meant for a different type of cooking,


Yes, I know it's enamel. But enamel is usually only for decoration or protection of the metal underneath. Is it the case then that the enamel on non-cast iron pots serves another purpose for a different type of cooking? This is a whole science, isn't it.


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## Pliny

Oldsarge said:


> I use black cast iron a lot but when it comes to braising for hours on the simmer plate in the rear of the (vintage Wedgewood) gas stove, nothing beats my LC. And Thomas Keller has a killer recipe for roast chicken on a bed of winter vegetables that really doesn't work in anything else. Great product and well worth the price. I got mine on sale from Williams Sonoma.





challer said:


> I've tried them all. If you want cheap, get the Lodge and be happy. If you are going to spend, it is Staub all the way. The design of the lid is key. It keeps the moisture in like no other. So if you are braising, Staub is the one. Lodge is the budget approach. You will see LC on TV because the white interior highlights the food and the black Staub interior does not. That is all there is too it. In two or three years, the LC will be stained and look dinghy.





tocqueville said:


> Thanks to all of you who wrote about cast iron on this thread. It prompted me to start reading up on cast iron skillets. I'm sold!


I bought an LC at Xmas because I liked the look, and frankly, the reputation. But I really don't understand why the enormous price diff.

Does anyone know whether there's a significant difference in the materials, casting process or enamel ?

......... back in the day I bought a plain cast iron one for peanuts and have used it camping for the past 30 yrs with no discernible wear - a bit blackened, yes, but still as robust and indestructible as ever...


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## hardline_42

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Yes, I know it's enamel. But enamel is usually only for decoration or protection of the metal underneath. Is it the case then that the enamel on non-cast iron pots serves another purpose for a different type of cooking? This is a whole science, isn't it.


Enameled cast iron has the benefit of keeping the thermal properties of iron but the enamel coating allows the formation of fond (the sticky brown bits that form when browning meat) and the ability to deglaze it with acidic liquids (like wine). Bare, seasoned cast iron is a) non stick, so fond cannot develop and b) reactive, so acids will destroy the seasoning and discolor/flavor the food. The taste can be faint or it can taste like you're sucking tomato juice off of an engine block.

On the other hand, bare cast iron can be heated to very high temperatures for searing meat whereas enameled cast iron is best heated to medium heat at most.

In short: Bare cast iron = quick, high-heat cooking, Enameled cast iron = slow braising in liquid.


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## Gravis

We have a Staub that we have used for years...perfectly happy with it.


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## Pliny

hardline_42 said:


> Enameled cast iron has the benefit of keeping the thermal properties of iron but the enamel coating allows the formation of fond (the sticky brown bits that form when browning meat) and the ability to deglaze it with acidic liquids (like wine). Bare, seasoned cast iron is a) non stick, so fond cannot develop and b) reactive, so acids will destroy the seasoning and discolor/flavor the food. The taste can be faint or it can taste like you're sucking tomato juice off of an engine block.
> 
> On the other hand, bare cast iron can be heated to very high temperatures for searing meat whereas enameled cast iron is best heated to medium heat at most.
> 
> In short: Bare cast iron = quick, high-heat cooking, Enameled cast iron = slow braising in liquid.


cheers, great explanation. new word for me = 'fond'


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