# Shell Cordovan Care: Saphir Products



## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

The recent thread in the Trad forum featuring a video of Will getting his shell cordovan boots professionally shined prompted me to research Saphir products.

I've read a number of posts mentioning the use of "renovateur" and was always wondering who made that particular product.

I've discovered that Saphir has a product called "rénovateur":

https://www.valmour.com/cleaning-products/renovator-shoe-polish-saphir,297

Is that the same thing?

Also, I noticed that Saphir has a product especially formulated for shell cordovan:

https://www.valmour.com/cleaning-products/cream-shoe-polish-cordovan-saphir-medaille-dor,524

Has anyone here used this particular shoe cream?

Would there be any other Saphir recommendations for shell and calf.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Yes, the 'renovateur' mentioned in a number of threads is the Saphir Rénovateur of which you mention and link. It is used as a leather conditioner/softener, and leaves a satin (not gloss) finish after using. While everyone has their own procedure for shining or new shoe break-in, mine starts with applying renovateur to help soften the shoes and put a 'base' down.

The link you have to the Cordovan polish, I believe, is NOT specially formulated for Shell shoes. Note, there is no mention of shell, simply of 'Cordovan'. In this case, I believe they are using the term 'Cordovan' as a color, not a type of leather. I would, however, like to be corrected on this. Saphir follows the convention of numbering the colors as well as naming them, and I see no number on the lid in accordance with other Médaille d'Or cremes.

I personally use Renovateur and their creme polishes exclusively. I find them to give a 'deeper' luster and shine than anything else, including Kiwi wax, Meltonian creme, and another two or three brands of which the names escape me. Yes, they are expensive; yes, Renovateur especially goes fast (as you work it into the leather, the leather gobbles it up!), but the color cremes contain a very high concentration of color pigment, so you only need to use them sparingly if you use a conditioner as a base. I've found myself being able to go much much longer between polishings since using Saphir.

In the US, Franco's in Virginia used to be the only place that carried it and had it readily available; the last time I checked (a few months ago), they didn't even respond to my multiple requests for it, leaving me to believe they are out. Kirby Allison's Hanger Project has it all IN STOCK, and ships quickly. I ordered five polishes and renovateur, and had it in two days. Their customer service was excellent!

Saphir also produces very high quality wax polish as well, which I use for a 'top-coat' with great results, as well as on my shell. Most discussion I've read states that creme polish is BAD for shell shoes; this being part of my confusion about their 'Cordovan' creme.

Also, for the red polishes, the Mahogany color (code 09) is a pretty 'light-medium' burgundy. I'd recommend Bordeaux (code 08) for nearly any burgundy shoes. My burgundy pebble grain AE Macneils are too dark for that polish, and I think those to be a pretty light version of burgundy.

Courtesy of the Hanger Project (Use code ASKANDY for a discount, follow the link from the merchants page):


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Thank you so very much GreatTwizz!

I do believe that Valmour speaks specifically of shell cordovan (the material) with respect to their "Cream Shoe Polish Cordovan" linked above. The French language version is not much more precise than the English one, however, there's a link a the bottom of the page for "Taking Care of Cordovan Leather" and this page states as follows:

*Taking Care of CORDOVAN Leather*

- CORDOVAN leather is obtained by using the hides of horses from Cordoba/Spain imported to the United-States and crossbred with wild horses from Dakota.
- Only 20 to 22 dm² of the rear are used, the rest is used for furniture. For many months, the skins are stored in barrels of oil. The natural shade is blood red, corresponding to a very dark bordeaux.
- This extremely resistent and very supple leather requires regular care which is possible with our * Cream Polish CORDOVAN Saphir Medaille d'Or * below :

(There was nothing "below").

I know I've read the same thing about not using a shoe cream on shell shoes. Allen Edmonds sells a "shell cordovan shoe cream", not a wax. I've used another cream (from Woly (sp?) on my shell shoes without any issue whatsoever. If AE sells a cream, it can't be all that bad.

What color would you recommend for Alden #8?


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

A word of caution: especially when it comes to shell cordovan, too much enthusiasm for conditioning and polishing is a bad thing. It's very easy to make a mess of cordovan shoes by using the wrong care products, or using the right ones too often/too liberally. If you do mess up a pair of cordovan shoes through a bit too much TLC, it's much harder to undo what you've done than it would be with calfskin shoes.

Here's a guide from an Alden retailer that I have found to be useful:

https://www.alden-of-carmel.com/index.cfm/care_of_shell_cordovan.htm


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

I agree with Racer: I presently have 4 pairs that see some action. 2 of those, I've polished (with shoe creme) twice a year. The third one I polished once with neutral wax and the fourth one I haven't used anything on it yet. In the meantime, all I do is to buff them with either a horsehair brush, or very quickly with an old sock.

Not to worry, I do not intend on going "gung ho" with polishes, cremes, waxes etc.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

In fact Saphir does make a cream specifcally for shell cordovan leathers.
It comes in Black, neutral, dark brown and, cordovan. It's labeled on top of the jar "cordovan". We use it all the time....great product.
We also use the Medaille D'or creams and waxes as well as the renovateur.
those products as well as Venetian are my favorites.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Thanks for your input Nick V.

I've discovered Saphir has 2 rénovateurs: one in their médaille d'or line of products and another one in their regular line (I think that's the one I linked to in the initial post.)

Do you have any comments regarding these 2 rénovateurs products?


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

We only use the premium line.
So, I never compared.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

I, happily, stand corrected. Thank you!!!



Barrister & Solicitor said:


> Thank you so very much GreatTwizz!
> 
> What color would you recommend for Alden #8?


You are most welcome sir!! I do not personally own anything in Alden #8, nor can I recall the last time I saw the color in person, so I feel it would be improper to offer an opinion.

With regard to their different lines of product: I'm going to safely assume that since we are discussing such a high-end product, that a few dollars a jar difference in pricing is of no consequence. That said, I do have Saphir cremes in both their regular line, a jar that looks like this , and the Medaille D'or. There is a notable difference in the consistency of the two products, with the Medaille D'or being easier to work with, but I've been unable to note a difference in the end result. Personally, I'll stick to the Medaille D'or knowing it is the best of the best, and I like the pretty square glass jars.

Nick - can you offer to us any retail US sources for Saphir products aside from those previously mentioned? I have been unable to find the Cordovan cremes anywhere and would like to have them.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> I, happily, stand corrected. Thank you!!!
> 
> You are most welcome sir!! I do not personally own anything in Alden #8, nor can I recall the last time I saw the color in person, so I feel it would be improper to offer an opinion.
> 
> ...


We have been using the Medaille D'or line in the shop for a while. I decided to carry the line for retail. It took months to get but it finally arrived. We carry the four cordovan cream colors as well as the Reno, cream and, wax. 
Also, Leffot, The Hanger Project and, Franco's carry Medaille D'or. Don't know if they offer the cordovan creams though.


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## Unregistered (Mar 13, 2008)

Do you gentlemen prefer the creme or the wax? Why?

Looking to get an order in!


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

I find the creme easier to apply than the wax, and I prefer the shine you get with the creme, but the wax is easier to brush into the welts and stitching. The two "rénovateurs" mentioned give much the same results, I find. All in all, the Saphir products are by far the best, there's no doubt about it.
For Cordovan No. 8 I use a special Cordovan creme supplied by Paraboot. I've never tried Saphir.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Nick V said:


> We have been using the Medaille D'or line in the shop for a while. I decided to carry the line for retail. It took months to get but it finally arrived. We carry the four cordovan cream colors as well as the Reno, cream and, wax.
> Also, Leffot, The Hanger Project and, Franco's carry Medaille D'or. Don't know if they offer the cordovan creams though.


Excellent. Thank you Nick. I'm not familiar with Leffot, but none of the other suppliers have the cordovan cream available. I'll give you a ring next week.


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## kirbya (Nov 10, 2004)

*Hanger Project carrying the Cordovan Cream*

The Hanger Project (me) has been carrying the Saphir Cordovan Polish for quite some time now. We were actually the first in the United States to bring it over. Very happy with it and highly-recommend it for Cordovan. It is different from the Pommadier Creams in that it uses Neats Foot Oil to penetrate the leather and deliver nutrients instead of turpentine. This prevents it from penetrating as deep as a cream polish, which will not cause it to expand the tight fiber structure unique to cordovan.

Cordovan is a very special leather and requires care different from that of calf. Many people recommend Saphir Renovateur for cordovan, but my position is why use Reno when Saphir (the same company who makes the Reno) has developed a product specifically for cordovan!


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

kirbya said:


> The Hanger Project (me) has been carrying the Saphir Cordovan Polish for quite some time now. We were actually the first in the United States to bring it over. Very happy with it and highly-recommend it for Cordovan. It is different from the Pommadier Creams in that it uses Neats Foot Oil to penetrate the leather and deliver nutrients instead of turpentine. This prevents it from penetrating as deep as a cream polish, which will not cause it to expand the tight fiber structure unique to cordovan.
> 
> Cordovan is a very special leather and requires care different from that of calf. Many people recommend Saphir Renovateur for cordovan, but my position is why use Reno when Saphir (the same company who makes the Reno) has developed a product specifically for cordovan!


Thanks for the update!!

I had the pleasure of dealing with your folks for my last Saphir order (of like 6 jars), and your staff was absolutely wonderful.


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## jeffreyc (Apr 8, 2010)

I was recommended the AE Cordovan cream about a year ago and am impressed by the look after application. I also use Saphir waxes only on my other shoes. Didnt know about the Cordovan cream.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

You're forgetting the deer bone.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...eo-on-Polishing-Shell-Cordovan&highlight=deer


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

How do Saphir and Venetian compare?


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## ColdIron (Jun 19, 2009)

Edwin Ek said:


> How do Saphir and Venetian compare?


I know kirbya says why use Renovateur when they have products dedicated to shell, but I use Reno on all my shoes including shell. Especially shell, a couple of times a year is enough and lots of brushing the rest of the year. And will never go back to Venetian Cream.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

ColdIron said:


> I know kirbya says why use Renovateur when they have products dedicated to shell, but I use Reno on all my shoes including shell. Especially shell, a couple of times a year is enough and lots of brushing the rest of the year. And will never go back to Venetian Cream.


I believe Edwin is asking for a comparison of the Saphir Cordovan creme versus the Venetian, not Reno.

I, for one, much prefer Venetian over Reno, but haven't used the Saphir Cordovan specific creme yet.


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

Barrister & Solicitor said:


> The recent thread in the Trad forum featuring a video of Will getting his shell cordovan boots professionally shined prompted me to research Saphir products.
> 
> Can you please post the link for the Video? Thanks in advance..


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## Ayrton (Mar 4, 2012)




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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Well it was quite a surprise to see this old thread resurrected after about a year.

It reminded me that I actually did get some Saphir products and so used the cordovan cream on my Florsheim longwings last night. The result was quite good as the top of the right shoe felt "dry" (ie not smooth to the touch, even after brushing) and applying the cordovan cream made them smooth again. The shine was also quite good. I was concerned that there would be somewhat of a color change but there wasn't.

I also used a black cream on my captoes (not Park Avenues but rather a Canadian brand, McHale) and the shine was astonishing.


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## englade321 (Jul 24, 2012)

Sorry to make my first post a question lets consider it food for discussion .I recently restored a pair of ebay'd vintage keith highlander color8 ptbs. After much wiping and buffing produced a "meh" result I started in with the renovator.From the start the effect was outstanding [email protected] 10 (yes thats ten) applications and buffings they just kept getting better showing deep beautiful luster.
My question is has anyone any experince with using too much of this stuff . The leather certainly seems to absorbing it . I know there is no build up as I've worn the shoes numerous times and the creasing remains smooth no dust collects and finish is bright and clear . I know there is much said about overdoing the conditioning of shell but that certainly has not been my experience. I should add that during this process I've consumed about 50 mls of reno so far.I've gotten some venetian cream that but haven't used any yet . How much conditioner is too much? I'm beginning to wonder


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

englade321 said:


> Sorry to make my first post a question lets consider it food for discussion .I recently restored a pair of ebay'd vintage keith highlander color8 ptbs. After much wiping and buffing produced a "meh" result I started in with the renovator.From the start the effect was outstanding [email protected] 10 (yes thats ten) applications and buffings they just kept getting better showing deep beautiful luster.
> My question is has anyone any experince with using too much of this stuff . The leather certainly seems to absorbing it . I know there is no build up as I've worn the shoes numerous times and the creasing remains smooth no dust collects and finish is bright and clear . I know there is much said about overdoing the conditioning of shell but that certainly has not been my experience. I should add that during this process I've consumed about 50 mls of reno so far.I've gotten some venetian cream that but haven't used any yet . How much conditioner is too much? I'm beginning to wonder


That's too much 

I would abort at this point. You may be over saturating, if it doesn't all end up in your rag.


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## englade321 (Jul 24, 2012)

*cordovan revival*

^^^^ yeah i'm just wiping and buffing for awhile.It is really is amazing to watch the beauty of the shell appear. Anyone who is into shell really should take a pair of old neglected shoes through this process.It helps to be retired and have this discretionary time on your hands.


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## dbhdbhdbh (Aug 10, 2012)

*Reno vs Venetian?*

For those of you who use both, do you consider them interchangeable? Or is one better for some conditions, and the other better under different circumstances? Would there ever be a reason to use both on the same pair of shoes? Which would you use for restoring old dry shell?


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## englade321 (Jul 24, 2012)

dbhdbhdbh said:


> For those of you who use both, do you consider them interchangeable? Or is one better for some conditions, and the other better under different circumstances? Would there ever be a reason to use both on the same pair of shoes? Which would you use for restoring old dry shell?


 I know horween (they process the leather) leans toward venetian cream. I used reno because i have a supply for my calf. I buy and restore classic usa made shoes as a hobby only so im certainly not .
an expert by any means .I can say though that the results I got from reno were nothing short of outstanding . The shells I restored were made by a company that to my understanding went out of business in the 1980s were well worn and pretty overwaxed.So I say yeah use the reno.
Trying to find another pair now when I do I'll have a go at 'em with venetian only and report back the results.Oz for oz the venetian certainly is cheaper. It would be great to hear from anyone else whos found a good wayto restore old shell


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

The best product imo is saphirs cordovan polish. It has neatsfoot oil instead of turpentine and other stuff that can harm the shell. A small amount of reno first perhaps...


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## englade321 (Jul 24, 2012)

I just figured out how to post photos .First photo shows shoes after 2 weeks wiping with damp cloth and buffing 5 mins per shoe 3-4 times a day .Second photo is after 3-4 applications of renovateur.


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## jaydubbs15 (Jun 1, 2011)

englade321 said:


> I just figured out how to post photos .First photo shows shoes after 2 weeks wiping with damp cloth and buffing 5 mins per shoe 3-4 times a day .Second photo is after 3-4 applications of renovateur.


That's quite and impressive difference! Is anyone afraid of overly softening the cordovan? I like the stiffness of the cordovan myself. By the way, englade321, those are very nice socks. What brand are they?


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## englade321 (Jul 24, 2012)

^^^^Yeah that was my question has anyone overconditiond a pair of shells cordovans i dumped a lot of reno on those shoes and they just kept getting better at this point i can wipe with a damp cloth and buff @ 30 secs and they start to glow .they still have that "shell stiffness" though softer than when i started due to the fact that they had been sitting for god knows how long .these shoes are prob 30 or more years old .
As for the socks the brand is HOTSOX .While the pinnacle of style in santa cruz may be boardshorts and flipflops we do have for some strange reason a little gem of a place called Sock Shop Santa Cruz.The name speaks for itself


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Bjorn said:


> The best product imo is saphirs cordovan polish. It has neatsfoot oil instead of turpentine and other stuff that can harm the shell. A small amount of reno first perhaps...


Wonder how plain neatsfoot oil would work on restoring old shell?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> Wonder how plain neatsfoot oil would work on restoring old shell?


Probably really well, at least as a recond. Not readily available over here afaik though.


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## englade321 (Jul 24, 2012)

Any one got an old pair of trashed shells ? iIll pay postage for some subjects to experiment on.Ive been looking for some on ebay but people are paying outrageous prices for the stuff right now


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## dbhdbhdbh (Aug 10, 2012)

I have heard that neatsfoot oil is fine for leather, but the acidity eats stitching, so it is not appropriate for shoes, or anything else that would suffer if the stitches came apart.


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## jaydubbs15 (Jun 1, 2011)

englade321 said:


> ^^^^Yeah that was my question has anyone overconditiond a pair of shells cordovans i dumped a lot of reno on those shoes and they just kept getting better at this point i can wipe with a damp cloth and buff @ 30 secs and they start to glow .they still have that "shell stiffness" though softer than when i started due to the fact that they had been sitting for god knows how long .these shoes are prob 30 or more years old .
> As for the socks the brand is HOTSOX .While the pinnacle of style in santa cruz may be boardshorts and flipflops we do have for some strange reason a little gem of a place called Sock Shop Santa Cruz.The name speaks for itself


Thanks for the socks referral. Has anyone tried Alden's shoe care products? If so, how do they compare to Saphir's?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

dbhdbhdbh said:


> I have heard that neatsfoot oil is fine for leather, but the acidity eats stitching, so it is not appropriate for shoes, or anything else that would suffer if the stitches came apart.


I guess it's diluted in saphir then...


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## dbhdbhdbh (Aug 10, 2012)

*Neatfoot for shell*

Or buffered. Lexol sells Lexol NF, which they say contains the same mix of oils, but with buffering, proprietary processing and emulsification to make it suitable for shoes and other leather that would be damaged by pure neatsfoot oil. I have used the Lexol version, but never pure NF. However, Amazon lists several sources that claim to sell neatsfoot oil. I would be scared to use it on shoes.


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## englade321 (Jul 24, 2012)

*alden shell experts needed*

Having recently purchased my first pair of new shells. (I have several used pairs)and noting what I belived to be spew or blooming in the vamp creases I proceeded to rub a tiny amount of saphir cordovan cream(neutral) in the area in an attempt to even things out . Well imagine my surprise when i discovered that what i thought was stuffing oils was actually some sort of glossy coating that was flaking off in the creases and the saphir acted as a solvent removing the coating wherever applied .It was now too late to turn back so I treated the entire vamp and eventually both shoe . Meanwhile seeing a chance to advance my knowledge of this fascinating leather I proceeded to experiment on my brand new $700+ alden cigar indy boots.I need to mention here I am by no means rich just dangerously curious. What I have discovered is that the following products remove this glossy coating vith varying degrees of aggresive,Saphir cordo cream - very aggresive,saphir renomat -very aggresive , saphir reno- mildy ,aggresive,kiwi brown paste -aggresive,saphir neutral paste -aggresive ,neatsfoot oil - non aggresive , saddle soap- non aggresive,acetone-DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.
So all in all what im left with is a somewhat less glossy finish which would certainly would have worn or been polished in short order.There does not seem to be any real change in shade although a great deal of color came off when I used the neutral products 
I have done a great deal of reading on this forum and others regarding shell care and have never heard any one mention this happening,so if any one has any first hand knowledge about it I certainly would l like to hear from them . I dont want to hear any " send 'em back " rubbish we're talking the advancement of human knowledge here
ps after all was said and done I splashed them good with water and let it set a while ,minimal welting brushed out in less than minute


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## dbhdbhdbh (Aug 10, 2012)

I have now had my first experience with Renomat. I bought a pair of vintage shells that were caked in old polish. Lexol, LexonNF and Lexol cleaner did not remove the mess. Renomat not only got up a lot, but once color stopped coming off with Renomat and I switched to Renovateur, even more came off. It was remarkable seeing the patina escape from underneath the old wax. The renomat seemed to be the real star here, loosening the old wax so that it would come up with either Renovateur or Venetian, while Venetian alone did nothing. Since I want the variation in color one gets on old shell, this was perfect. I cannot imagine buying new shell shoes, way too expensive, but I might hesitate to be aggressive about removing finish if you liked the way they looked before you started.


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