# Budding young trad in need of your help



## Cactus (Mar 16, 2010)

Hey guys, new to the forum as a member but I have been reading and absorbing information for a fair amount of time. Figured I would introduce myself and see if I could get a little style advice. I'm currently a 20-year old undergraduate/future law student, and call Texas home. I've always dressed in a conservative / "fratty" / fairly preppy manner, and as I've grown older so has my appreciation for the American trad style. I'm sure nearly all of you are older and have more expertise, so I come to you, hat in hand, to pick your brain on how you developed your own personal "trad" style and how you transitioned from your years as a student to a young professional, and so on.

With that in mind, and I apologize for the very lengthy post, but I figured the best way for you guys to advise me on where I'm going, is to see where I'm currently at. Hear is a look at the important parts of my wardrobe:

*Shirts:*
*Many RL Polo's (some custom fit, various stripes & solids)
*A few Lacoste Polo's (stripes, solids)
*RL Polo Button Down Sport Shirts
---Classic fit poplin blue/black checkered
---Slim fit poplin light blue
---Classic fit oxford white/green small windowpane
---Slim fit oxford white/fine blue stripes
---Slim fit oxford green/white stripes
---Slim fit oxford purple/white stripes
---Slim fit oxford cream/charcoal stripes

*Dress Shirts:*
*RL Polo white regent, medium-spread collar
*Brooks Brothers slim fit, light blue, tab collar
*Joseph & Fiess cream, straight collar

_*(A few other cheapies that are ill-fitting and go, for the most part, un-worn - unless I'm desperate and throw it on under a sweater or what have you.)_

*Sweaters:*
*RL Polo brown V-neck, pima cotton
*RL Polo black V-neck, wool
*RL Polo gray/small navy-striped V-neck, pima cotton 
*RL Polo green, half-zip, knit cotton 
*Banana Republic gray V-neck, cotton
*Banana Republic navy V-neck, cotton
*Banana Republic dark gray crew neck, wool
*Club Monaco charcoal crew neck, cashmere/cotton blend sweater-shirt

*Shorts:*
*Various RL Polo flat-front chino shorts in a few different shades, & 1 plaid
*RL Polo pleated light khaki short
*RL Polo tan linen short

*Casual Pants:*
*Various RL Polo flat-front prospect chinos in a few different shades
*RL Polo brown corduroys

*Various Levi's 514 slim straight fit jeans, mostly dark shades
*RL Polo cassic fit one in dark, one in light
*Rock & Republic boot cut jeans, dark shade
*Citizens of Humanity "jagger" boot cut jeans, dark shade

_(I realize these bottom two are far from trad, but I'm young and need something a little trendy to go out in - but you won't find any holes, designs, sandblast, or buttoned rear-end pocket flaps on my jeans)_

*Trousers:*
*Express black, flat-front, not-cuffed 
*Stafford gray flannel, pleated front, cuffed

*Suits:*
*Hong Kong bespoke medium/dark gray, 3-button, single vent 
(close friend's brother does some business over there, gave him my specs and he hooked me up)
---X2 matching dress trousers

*Charcoal Jones New York 3-button suit, tailored 
(Men's Wearhouse suit that I got for interviews before I knew any better, but it fits and looks alright) 
---matching dress trouser

*Ties (none of which I'm a huge fan of):*
*Express Men's, gold/yellow - low sheen, solid
*Express Men's, gray/silverish with repp stripes (white outlined in lavender)
*Nautica, stripes in green and blue
*Nautica, black with repp stripes (white, tan, baby blue)
*A few hideous cheapies that never get worn

_+I've been poking around ebay looking for good deals on emblematic and repp ties (J Press & Brooks for the most part)
_

*Coats/Jackets:*
*Hong Kong bespoke tan, 2-button, double vent sport coat
(light material, with very fine brown threading accents)

*Zara black wool overcoat, classic style/length, single-breast

*Casual Jackets:*
*North Face two-tone black/gray apex jacket (everyday sort of jacket, waterproof)
*Columbia fleece jacket
*RL Polo tan sweater full-zip up

*Shoes:*
*Johnston & Murphy black, oxford, cap-toe
*Banana Republic driving loafer, whiskey brown (my go-to when I go out, with jeans or chinos)
*Lacoste sneakers (my everyday knock-around shoe)
*Ariat brown leather cowboy boots (sigh, cliche I know, everybody in Texas has a pair. Mine don't get put on very often.)
_
+looking to add a new pair of Sperry Top-Siders_

I know it's not a real extensive wardrobe, but it gets the job done. I also realize there is a lot of RL Polo and Banana Republic (two brands that aren't looked upon very highly around here).

So I've come to you, to help me transcend the "little pony" and help me take it to the next level as far as adding to my wardrobe. I appreciate it guys, and look forward to hear what you guys think.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

It's not about the depth of the wardrobe (though this will undoubtedly develop over time), but about managing incoming items in a number of ways:

*1. Essentiality:* just as important as fitting the Trad canon, is whether the item is an essential. In other words, don't go getting some lilac check sport shirt when you don't already have a stack of blue & white OCBDs. So much of Trad is bout the beauty of the basics.

*2. Ruggedness:* it takes study to pick up on all the peculiarities of Trad and the interesting variations on the theme, but I've found that a pretty good rule of thumb is that if you can tumble down a hill in it and brush it off it's probably Trad. Fabrics are durable and hard-wearing and almost always look better with wear on them.

*3. Fit:* take it from a guy that has 4 figures of tailoring waiting to be budgeted, that fit is very important and between thrifting and sales you'll be tempted to take on all sorts of "gems" that will never really fit you. Record your measurements and let those be your guide.

*4. Versatility:* You mentioned that you held on to the Rock & Republic jeans for going out. WRONG! Sockless loafers, white OCBD, khakis. That's what you go out in. It's a party? Wear a ribbon belt with pink elephants! You drink G&Ts and wear a lamp shade on your head. You tell ribald tales. You age prematurely and remain perpetually immature. You're never quite as dressed up at work or dressed down in repose. You are an enigma. You are TRAD.

If you keep a close eye on those you'll probably be on solid footing. Not everyone abides by every rule and it will take some time to figure out which ones you like to break.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Just wanted to say welcome to another Texas kid. If you ever have any UT Law questions, since you mentioned law school, shoot 'em my way. I'm a 1L now.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

ROFL! Excellent post, Trip. 

Versatility is king in my closet. A member described a good Trad wardrobe as one where the owner could grab every item without looking and be well dressed. I think I could almost do that (a few ties might be too unique).

The Exchange is the best place for Trad gear on a budget, IMO. Plenty of ties are for sale there now (since you mentioned needing ties). It's the best way to get sport coats too. eBay's a distant second. Know your measurements and take your time determining what you really want (and wait for it to surface for the right price).

Good places to start working:
coats - navy blazer is number one, a gray houndstooth or herringbone would make a good number two
trousers - khakis
shirts - OCBDs
shoes - pennies
ties - striped Repps (as you mentioned)


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

Hi and welcome aboard. My first two thoughts are that you shouldn't apologise for the amount of things in your wardrobe or about RLP items. My initial reaction is that you've got a lot more than you need.

The main issues are, imo, (1) a lack of good flat front trousers. I'd get a pair in gray--in your climate I'd go as light weight wool as possible; (2) the collars on your shirt. Are they button down collars.

All you _need_ to dress trad for a week is 2 pair of khaki pants, 2 pair of khaki shorts, 5 ocbd shirts, 2 polos, and a pair of topsiders. The rest is just adapting to different occasions.

Two words of advice: don't buy a lot, but buy quality right from the start. It ends up being the cheapest course in that quality items are both longer lasting and more satisfying--and they don't need to cost a lot. And second, where you live Madras and seersucker make a lot of sense.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm always happy to see a fellow young gun on the board. It sounds like you have a solid wardrobe so far. Start slowly replacing items with trad basics. Consult the made in USA thread in the hall of fame. You are going to want to buy lots of stuff. Don't. You already have plenty of clothes, it's only consumerism telling you that you need more. Buy the best, wear it every day, and keep it till it falls apart. Give no concessions to fashion. Trad is a little punk it that sense. Punks say "**** you, I'm going to be dirty and look crazy because I don't care what modern society thinks!" Trads say "Go to Hell! I'm going to wear well made clothing because I don't care what modern society thinks!"
Just make sure that from now on, you are only buying very well made, very basic, and very versatile clothes. Lurk that boards and read old threads. There is tons of advice on who makes the best and traddest in sweaters, khakis, shirts, ect.
Again, check old threads and that USA made thread. Change you wardrobe slowly, and focus on quality, not just what looks trad.

If you want a to get list:
1 Anderson Little Navy Blazer
1 pair AE pennies (for dress and everyday causal use)
2 white and 2 blue OCBDs (for dress and everyday causal use)
2 pair flat front Bills Khakis (for dress and everyday causal use)


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

Since I can add nothing more to the excellent advice you've received thus far--especially from Hudson and the board shaman, Trip English--I'll just say welcome. Coleman's anecdote about essentially dressing blindfolded also rings true.

That said, don't worry too much about have a few "specialty" non-trad items. In fact, don't worry too much in general.


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## Cactus (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks for the all of the great advice guys, really solid stuff across the board. It definitely gave me a better idea about what trad is all about. If anyone else has anything else to add, feel free, I'm all ears.



P Hudson said:


> The main issues are, imo, (1) a lack of good flat front trousers. I'd get a pair in gray--in your climate I'd go as light weight wool as possible; (2) the collars on your shirt. Are they button down collars.


(1) I agree, I find myself having to wear my gray hong kong trousers (sans jacket) or chinos in business casual settings (ie when I go to work on most days).

(2) Yes, all of my sport shirts are button down collars (but a couple are a lighter cotton than oxford, poplin I believe) but the collars on all of them don't seem appropriate for a tie. However, my dress shirts are not button down collars.



hookem12387 said:


> Just wanted to say welcome to another Texas kid. If you ever have any UT Law questions, since you mentioned law school, shoot 'em my way. I'm a 1L now.


Awesome, I'm still researching schools and whatnot, but as it stands UT sits atop my list with Cornell at 2, and SMU at 3. I'm currently a Junior, but on a 4.5 year track due to my double major (I could have condensed it, but I wanted to give myself a little down time before law school started). Good to find a UT Law student on here though, I'm sure I'll have a few questions for you somewhere down the road.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

You will find that trad use button down collars with ties. One of the big tenets of trad is that everything should be able to do double duty as casual or dressy clothing. Thus the looking dressed up while relaxing and relaxed when dressed up. It's idiosyncratic, but more efficent than having dedicated dress and causal wardrobes. If you can get it down, you can look very nice but also nonchalant.


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## Cactus (Mar 16, 2010)

Youngster said:


> You will find that trad use button down collars with ties. One of the big tenets of trad is that everything should be able to do double duty as casual or dressy clothing. Thus the looking dressed up while relaxing and relaxed when dressed up. It's idiosyncratic, but more efficent than having dedicated dress and causal wardrobes. If you can get it down, you can look very nice but also nonchalant.


Yeah, now that you bring it up, I just realized that my answer Hudson's question was a little bit confusing. I'm fully aware that that the OCBD is a vital part a trad arsenal, but most of my RLP OCBD sport shirts in particular, seem to have a very limp and casual collar that wouldn't really hold up to a tie properly like a more crisp OCBD collar - or that was my assumption?


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

Cactus said:


> Yeah, now that you bring it up, I just realized that my answer Hudson's question was a little bit confusing. I'm fully aware that that the OCBD is a vital part of a trad arsenal, but most of my RLP OCBD sport shirts in particular, seem to have a very limp and casual collar that wouldn't really hold up to a tie properly like a more crisp OCBD collar - or that was my assumption?


If I'm thinking of the same type of shirts, you are correct, The RL sportshirts aren't really designed to be worn with a tie. I typically opt for Brooks Brothers or Nordstrom Smartcare OCBD dress shirts. They are versatile with or without ties and not too expensive at regular prices plus they can often be found on sale.

As for rep ties, definitely use Ebay or the Thrift Shop Exchange Thread here. The other place to look is your local thrift shops. BB rep ties have been around so long, I've found them at Goodwill or other charity thrifts.


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## Calvin500 (Jan 16, 2009)

Trip English said:


> You age prematurely and remain perpetually immature. You're never quite as dressed up at work or dressed down in repose.


Dang. That about says it perfectly.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Welcome, Cactus. Looks like you've got some good stuff.

I agree with the other thoughts about versatility -- one huge advantage of "trad" stuff. You might pick up a few of the *basic OCBDs (without logos)* if you don't have them from LE, BB, Press, O'Connell's or wherever -- solid blue, white, a few unistripes.

I also agree that you should consider a *navy blazer* of some kind (preferably a sack, but RL makes a useful unconstructed cotton number.) And perhaps an *olive poplin suit*, which would be highly versatile in a warm climate. (You could even split up the jacket and pants.)

Shoes might be your weakest link right now. Do you like *penny loafers*? (Did I say versatile?)

And *repp and knit ties*. Lots of fun.

And yes, learn your measurements if you don't know them already. This is key. Fit is almost everything.

Glad to have you here!


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

The quality of clothing salespeople gets some deserved criticism on this forum, but in my case in my 20s in the 1980s, a salesman at Nordstrom was very helpful in educating me. My introduction to Robert Talbott repp ties, for example. I'm still wearing some of the ties he pulled out for me. So if you perchance see a salesman dressed the way you want to dress, it wouldn't hurt to ask his advice. If you find a really good salesperson, well, you've found an incredible resource, although it certainly will be more expensive than thrift stores. Use your best judgment on whether the guy knows what he's doing or is full of it. Ask a few questions, then follow your hunches on whether you want to stay or shop elsewhere. You can also read Flusser's Dressing The Man: Mastering The Art of Permanent Fashion. It's not strictly trad, but you'll learn a lot.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

My suggestions are based on cost. You can put together a pretty useful and versatile wardrobe without spending much money.

Shirts:
Lands End Hyde Park, 3 white, 3 blue

Pants:
3 pairs of LL Bean 1912 chinos in khaki, 1 pair red, 1 pair blue--all flat front

Ties: 
Ebay search for Brooks Brothers ties, striped, and just keep bidding $10

Shoes:
Clarks desert khan shoes
LL Bean Handsewn Moccasins, Leather Blucher Moc in saddle
Ebay search for Alden and Allen Edmonds in your size, looking for plain toe bluchers or NST

Blazer:
Anderson-Little with silver buttons (darted, but good and cheap)

Watch:
Seiko 5 with nylon band from Amazon.com

Think about Emory for Law.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

Not sure what your budget is, but give Cullwell & Son in Dallas a shot if in need of Bills Khakis or trying on a pair of Aldens. They have the best men's store in north Texas easily and do run sales throughout the year. They also have special suit deals that you may be interested in, tailored, (no pun intended) for someone just starting their career. They will take care of you.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Cactus said:


> I'm sure nearly all of you are older and have more expertise, so I come to you, hat in hand, to pick your brain on how you developed your own personal "trad" style and how you transitioned from your years as a student to a young professional, and so on.
> 
> [. . .]
> 
> ...


You'll find people have mixed feelings about Ralph. He understands a certain part of the look very well, (Consider the Darlton shoe line) but you have to dig a bit to find the non-pony U.S. and English made stuff.

The two "Trad" fellows who I feel give the look its best face are Tin Tin over at The Trad and ADG over at Maxminimus.

As for personal style, it mostly involved finding the point where my comfort and the comfort of those who I interact with regularly meet, and then using that to guide my choices within the style. Dressing well is a social harmonizing game; while the style basics stay the same, the expression adapts based on the locale. For instance, when I lived in more Southern climes, the fearlessly loud look was a good bet; seersucker, pastels, all that. it meshed well with the sun and the people. Now that I'm off in the northern woods, flannel and moccasins are the name of the game, but I wouldn't say that my look has fundamentally changed. If I were off in the city, on would come the sacks and repps, but nothing basic would be different. It's a big tent once you understand the essence.

Tropical weight wool will probably be your friend down in Texas if you're planning on going into a field where you'll spend a lot of time in suits. Otherwise, a good pair of khakis and a hopsack blazer will give you a lot of mileage. A natural shoulder is always worth looking for. (Don't feel bad about the cowboy boots.)


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

I too am a student, and new wardrobes can be a major cost. Get the shoes first. Get the best ones you can afford. They last the longest out of anything and are the basis of a good wardrobe. Again, AE and Alden are the best, and plaintoes and Pennies are the most versatile. Don't get cheap shoes; your feet will hate you for it. Change you wardrobe slowly so that it is affordable, but buy the best whenever you can; make due with fewer and better clothes. You will build slowly, but it will be worth it.
And if you are worried about this, being trad will not make you a social pariah. You can still be trad and dress your age. I cannot speak for all of the board in this, and I do not mean to be immodest; but trad clothes will not hurt you chances with girls. Look sharp my boy!


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Trip English said:


> *4. Versatility:* You mentioned that you held on to the Rock & Republic jeans for going out. WRONG! Sockless loafers, white OCBD, khakis. That's what you go out in. It's a party? Wear a ribbon belt with pink elephants! You drink G&Ts and wear a lamp shade on your head. You tell ribald tales. You age prematurely and remain perpetually immature. You're never quite as dressed up at work or dressed down in repose. You are an enigma. You are TRAD.


Very funny. And quite true.

My recommendation would be to keep your powder dry for the time being. Hang out around here and soak it in. See what people post on WAYWT and figure out what you like and what works for you.

From here on out, resolve to buy quality. Decide what you want/need and, instead of "saving" money by shopping at stores like Express, wait until you can afford quality. Culwell, although spendy, is a great store.

Good luck with school and law school. As you may guess, I'm an SMU grad--great school, absolutely loved it--but if you don't plan to stay in Dallas, go to UT.

P.S. Make sure you get a real haircut--Village Barbers and the Grooming Room (at Culwell) will both treat you right.


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

katon said:


> (Don't feel bad about the cowboy boots.)


 Why would anyone feel bad about cowboy boots? I'm wearing cowboy boots to the office today. Hell, I got married in cowboy boots!

Cactus--there are substantial regional variations on trad. Yankees just don't get boots. Or trucks. Or BBQ. Or blondes. But I digress...


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Coleman said:


> Good places to start working:
> coats - navy blazer is number one, a gray houndstooth or herringbone would make a good number two
> trousers - khakis
> shirts - OCBDs
> ...


This is all good advice. The thing which struck me about the OP clothing inventory is that there is nothing between suit and casual. For coats, I say blue blazer, houndstooth and something tweedy. DFW is probably past tweed season for this year so he can be picky.


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## At Law (Apr 15, 2008)

Cactus said:


> but most of my RLP OCBD sport shirts in particular, seem to have a very limp and casual collar that wouldn't really hold up to a tie properly like a more crisp OCBD collar quote]
> 
> A warm welcome to the forum, Cactus.
> 
> ...


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## Drew Bernard (Feb 19, 2009)

Good advice all-around. Just lose that ridiculous avatar, please.


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## Drew Bernard (Feb 19, 2009)

katon said:


> The two "Trad" fellows who I feel give the look its best face are Tin Tin over at The Trad and ADG over at Maxminimus.


You're joking, right? ADG is one of the biggest peacocks around (I mean that in a good way) and barely touches the fringes of "Trad".


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Why the advice to get one blazer with gold buttons, and one with silver? I've never had the latter. Just wondering what the significance could be....


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## jwlester (Oct 20, 2009)

Welcome. I'm another young lurker here and have learned innumerable things about quality, timeless style, and class on this board. That said, I don't consider myself "trad" (maybe southern trad?). Much of what has been said rings true for me and seems like very good advice but don't get too bent out of shape about the uniform. I find it funny that people pride themselves on being "different" by following an exact uniform. Don't worry or feel bad about your boots or your pleated trousers. We do it a little different down here. Don't be afraid to mix in a little more color than is normal trad outfit. I can't overstate how much Mr. Trip English's statements rang true for me. Don't feel like you have to have "trendy" items to fit in for going out. Pride yourself on the fact that you know what you like, are a much more interesting person, and will be wearing the same thing in 30 years while the herd is still trying to figure out what is "cool" that particular year. A huge benefit is also that the older gents that you will be working for and socializing with will take notice of your "grown up" style and classy demeanor. Those guys we want to be like "when we grow up" will respect you and take an interest in you because you value the same things they do. 

I take pride in the fact that I wear the same things my grandfather wore and the same things I wore when I was 5. It just took me a few years to figure that out.

Cheers, Josh


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## At Law (Apr 15, 2008)

Drew Bernard said:


> Good advice all-around. Just lose that ridiculous avatar, please.


You talk'n to me?


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## At Law (Apr 15, 2008)

Joe Beamish said:


> Why the advice to get one blazer with gold buttons, and one with silver? I've never had the latter. Just wondering what the significance could be....


Good question. I prefer having two blazers, one with silver buttons
and one with gold buttons, based on what I will be pairing it with
for the day.

This is just my opinion, however, I feel the gold buttons are a little
dressier and more conversative and look better with gray/tan dress
pants. I prefer the silver buttons with jeans and/or reds.


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## Drew Bernard (Feb 19, 2009)

At Law said:


> You talk'n to me?


No, the OP (Cactus).


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## At Law (Apr 15, 2008)

Drew Bernard said:


> No, the OP (Cactus).


Okay, good. We're friends again. :icon_smile_wink:


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Drew Bernard said:


> You're joking, right? ADG is one of the biggest peacocks around (I mean that in a good way) and barely touches the fringes of "Trad".


Certainly a peacock, but in a way that I think suggests that he generally understands the look. He seems to have a knack for tracking down Trad oddities (hoof pick belts from Wiley, horizontal corduroys from J. McLaughlin, loden shell cordovan penny loafers from Yuketen, horizontal university stripe shirts from Alan Flusser, etc.) which are good to be reminded of every so often. Otherwise, it becomes tempting to hunker down in the Brooks-Press nexus and start griping about how nobody does anything new anymore. :icon_smile_big:


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

jwlester said:


> Don't worry or feel bad about your boots or your pleated trousers.


I agree about the boots. You will find that there has been much discussion about boots here, especially those of the cowboy/roper variety. I am a fan, although I don't wear them. You are a Texan, and so should wear them with pride. Trad looks better when mixed with regional items and with personal touches. Take the basics, and then see what else you can put with them. Boots are a favorite of mine. 
As for pleats, I have nothing good to say about those. Nor does the Errol Morris:
https://www.errolmorris.com/commercials/miller/miller_flamz.html
Also, you may want to look at Billy Reid for inspiration. Don't buy anything; better quality van be had cheaper, but he is very fashionable right now, and can be a good lesson on how to make southern trad look modern.

Again, inspiration- I don't endorse actually buying his stuff.


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## Cactus (Mar 16, 2010)

I would like to thank all of you guys for great advice. When I posted I wasn't sure how much response I would receive, but I've been very impressed by the thoughtful suggestions and warm welcome. I also appreciate the good information from the students, Texans, and lawyers on the forums. I will definitely have to check out Culwell next time I'm around SMU, unfortunately I'm not in the DFW area much as I'm down in College Station at A&M for most of the year.



Drew Bernard said:


> Good advice all-around. Just lose that ridiculous avatar, please.


Hahaha, I figured you - Drew Bernard (with a Cornell avatar), could appreciate the good ole' Nard Dog avatar. I do see what you mean though, and someone that doesn't watch "The Office" would view it as quite ridiculous. I may go with my 2nd idea and try to find a good pic of William F. Buckley Jr. or Ernest Hemingway (couple of personal favorites).

**On a side note, I figured I would explain the forum name, which even I find a bit ridiculous. A while back some of my close HS buddies coined the awful nickname of Cactus as a complete joke. Although, I'm not exclusively called Cactus by those guys, it is thrown out from time to time, much to their amusement.

Thanks again guys,

Colin


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## erbs (Feb 18, 2008)

I found these threads helpful when starting out:

Trad 101
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=50714



Marcus Bergman said:


> I would rather consider myself fogey than trad... but if I would convert, the following would be on my 101 list:
> 
> Shopping list:
> -Three pairs of khakis, flat fronted, cuffed, Bills (note the absent apostrophe... most trad.)
> ...


Collegiate Trad
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=58912



septa said:


> The key with dressing preppy or trad on college campuses is not appearing to try too hard. Although I did go to the sort of college that has no football team, but does have squash and cricket, if I had shown up with grey flannels, a tweed jacket, ocbd and button down, no one would have liked it. The professors would have thought me a prig, students from middle and working class backgrounds a snob, and students from truly upper class backgrounds (and I do mean the kind who have last names associated with gilded age industry and will never have to work) some sort of pathetic Gatsbyesque character. I wore brooks brothers shirts (my dads and very frayed), mcgeorge sweaters (a light blue one that got a lot of attention), bills, lacoste polos, harris tweeds, horn rimmed glasses, desert boots, bean boots and blucher mocs. In the winter I had a p-coat and a toggle coat, and I'm sure I could have pulled off a Barbour. You just have to do it with flair. Let your hair get messed up in the wind, or throw on a well loved baseball cap from your school, college, fraternity, or an established baseball team (ie Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, Cards, Cubs, not the D-Backs). Let your shoes get a little scuffed, go sockless at totally innappropriate times, don't shave every day, occasionally throw on jeans with your sack harris tweed, and don't wear the blue blazer 'cause it looks totally cliched (unless it is a formal or to church). Best of luck and wear your clothes without fear, or it will ruin the effect.
> Cheers


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

Joe Beamish said:


> Why the advice to get one blazer with gold buttons, and one with silver? I've never had the latter. Just wondering what the significance could be....


Silver is just a little more understated and might match things like his watch, if it is stainless steel, or belt buckles. I was just thinking it might be more versatile.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Trip English said:


> It's not about the depth of the wardrobe (though this will undoubtedly develop over time), but about managing incoming items in a number of ways:
> 
> *1. Essentiality:* just as important as fitting the Trad canon, is whether the item is an essential. In other words, don't go getting some lilac check sport shirt when you don't already have a stack of blue & white OCBDs. So much of Trad is bout the beauty of the basics.
> 
> ...


If AAAC had a Hall of Fame, this post would get my nomination. The categorization catches what a thousand other posts have missed. Kudos!


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

Two things:

1) OP, There's a ton of information here, you just have to search for it sometimes. Lose the Seiko5 and pick up a Timex Easy Reader. You won't ever be worried about it when you're out... and wake up the next morning with the crystal broken and the hands all pulled up and out of shape. (That's a story for another time, though.) Also, welcome to AAAT from one student to another. Happy to have you aboard.

2) TripEnglish, well said.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

katon said:


> Certainly a peacock, but in a way that I think suggests that he generally understands the look. He seems to have a knack for tracking down Trad oddities (hoof pick belts from Wiley, horizontal corduroys from J. McLaughlin, loden shell cordovan penny loafers from Yuketen, horizontal university stripe shirts from Alan Flusser, etc.) which are good to be reminded of every so often. Otherwise, it becomes tempting to hunker down in the Brooks-Press nexus and start griping about how nobody does anything new anymore. :icon_smile_big:


Seems like he often takes Trad and f*#k$ with it some (or gets Flusser to do it). I love his clothes and his blog. It's hands down my favorite blog, both for the sartorial aspects and his general story-telling abilities.

To the OP,

Ditch the Citizens and R&Rs. I wasted a good $1,000 or more on "designer denim" before realizing how ridiculous they looked and how cheaply they were made. It kills me to think of what I could have purchased with that money instead of getting those jeans. Boot cut jeans aren't a good look for your drivers, either. Get a pair of APCs. You won't regret it, I promise.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

Memphis88 said:


> Seems like he often takes Trad and f*#k$ with it some (or gets Flusser to do it). I love his clothes and his blog. It's hands down my favorite blog, both for the sartorial aspects and his general story-telling abilities.
> 
> To the OP,
> 
> Ditch the Citizens and R&Rs. I wasted a good $1,000 or more on "designer denim" before realizing how ridiculous they looked and how cheaply they were made. It kills me to think of what I could have purchased with that money instead of getting those jeans. Boot cut jeans aren't a good look for your drivers, either. Get a pair of APCs. You won't regret it, I promise.


+2. I finally made the jump to raw, although I picked up RRL's straight. I liked them a bit better than APC's Rescue. Coincidentally, my favorite pair of 7's (I have 5 pairs in the same cut) just tore in the crotch. Stay away from boot cut at all costs, too.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

Trip English said:


> .
> 
> *4. Versatility:* You mentioned that you held on to the Rock & Republic jeans for going out. WRONG! Sockless loafers, white OCBD, khakis. That's what you go out in. It's a party? Wear a ribbon belt with pink elephants! You drink G&Ts and wear a lamp shade on your head. You tell ribald tales. You age prematurely and remain perpetually immature. You're never quite as dressed up at work or dressed down in repose. You are an enigma. You are TRAD.
> 
> .


This is simply wrong: Jeans for appropriate wear are an essential to be seen as part of this world. Trad is fine for many things but jeans are part of that and in appropriate circumstances you should accept modern ways.

I would even excuse button/flap back pockets as well.

It is essential to avoid being branded 'eccentric' that is not good for career or life prospects.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

I've been judged to be eccentric for a number of reasons (and probably reasonably so), but I don't think anyone has ever done so because I was wearing khakis instead of jeans. One does not _need_ a pair of jeans.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm 23, graduated undergrad last May and am from Fort Worth, TX if that makes my opinion count any more for you.

Your wardrobe nearly mimics my high school wardrobe, I was pretty much an RL poster boy.

Understandably you are on a college budget as was I.

*Shirts:*

First thing's first, I would stop buying RL (don't toss them though unless they don't fit like mine, thats just wasteful) and never again step foot in an Express either, you're obviously from Arlington.... I kid, I kid. After they released those big Polos and the polos with numbers, I questioned at what kind of people were being targeted by that brand and have not bought a single RL article of clothing since high school (I also gained weight in college and can't fit in my size small polos my collection of say 15 are useless and have been donated to charity). I was lucky enough to live close to a very well stocked Brooks Brothers outlet in college. Bought many buttondowns 2 for $75. Some here hate the non-iron but they can probably afford to send their shirts to the cleaners/have the time/care that much/have a wife to do it. I use to iron all my button downs when all i had were RLs and didn't mind but once I started having non-irons, I haven't gone back. Whatever, you're 20, you have better things to do.

Stop wearing logos on your "nice" clothes. I don't wear a collar and a logo at the same time.

Other brands I have started to get into more now that I don't live close to the BB outlet are LLBean and Lands End. They may not have the variety of patterns and quality/fit as BB but the quality/price ratio is great plus returns/exchanges are easy and no time limit.

*Pants:*

For wool slacks I have been satisfied with Jos A Bank slacks which I have gotten for $40. I also have a couple suits from JAB and use the suit pants by themselves at work (against the rules but I can't afford to have navy slacks and navy suit pants just yet)

For khakis and cords, I like LL Bean. Best $30 pair of pants ever.

For jeans I like Levi 501 originals button flys. No rips, holes, "whiskers" or any of that, just one dark, one medium, and one light pair.
- despite what others say here, i'm actually thinking about getting a pair of 7's jeans, the most conservative kind, no rips/whiskers/weird designs on the pocket. i've seen more and more conservatively dressed guys our age wearing them.

*Casual Jackets*

I got the North Face Denali back in '01 before everyone and their mother had them. It is overpriced and underfunctional. Then I got the Mountain Hardwear Monkey Man in '05 before everyone and their mother got them. It too is overpriced and underfunctional. I have not gotten one yet but the next fleece I will buy is the Patagonia Retro Cardigan fleece. Yes it is expensive but it is the best/stylish fleece out there. Alot of people at my school started getting them last year so that is why I started looking for a different less casual jacket and started buying Barbours after wanting a quilted jacket. i've now have a Barbour Duracotton Polarquilt and more recently a Barbour Beaufort and hopefully a Bedale.

*Sweaters*

I've stuck mainly to crewnecks but I think for thinner/dressier materials like merino wool (can't afford cashmere yet) I will be getting V-necks. I like BB, JAB, LLB's offerings. Quarter-zips are good too just remember, no logos

*Shoes*

Banana Republic is a bit too metro/guido for me. I really like cole-haan because they have plenty of conservative shoes, and are abundant on ebay many in good condition. I probably have 7 or 8 pairs all from ebay that range anywhere from $130-$200+ brand new but that I got in good condition from ebay for $20-$50. These include drivers, captoes, bucks, bits, and pennies. Absolutley no square toes.

I had the Clark Wallabees that every guy had in the South but those are starting to come out of trend now, still a cool shoe IMO.

I am looking to get some Clark Desert Boots too

Still have my classic pair of New Balance 991's from '05 that I rarely wear.

Bought some LL Bean Rubber mocs which I really like, especially if its wet outside.

I don't know what brand your boots are but nothing beats Lucchese - must have a walking heel for your nicer pair. I wear mine everytime I wear jeans when I go out on the weekends. otherwise, for tooling around on someones ranch i still have my redwing pecos (non-rubber sole) from high school.

i had topsiders once but lost them and probably won't replace them until i find myself on a boat. they have become disgustingly trendy that I see people with spiked hair, A&F/AE/Aero too tight polos, puka shells, and baggy jeans with holes and then topsiders. To me, the only time they would be useful is if your shoes are going to get wet. Otherwise, replace the times you would wear topsiders with loafers, drivers, or rainbow flip flops in order of increasing casualness. Wear LL Bean rubber mocs when your feet are going to get wet, and wear your topsiders when you're on a boat.

hope this helps.



Cactus said:


> Hey guys, new to the forum as a member but I have been reading and absorbing information for a fair amount of time. Figured I would introduce myself and see if I could get a little style advice. I'm currently a 20-year old undergraduate/future law student, and call Texas home. I've always dressed in a conservative / "fratty" / fairly preppy manner, and as I've grown older so has my appreciation for the American trad style. I'm sure nearly all of you are older and have more expertise, so I come to you, hat in hand, to pick your brain on how you developed your own personal "trad" style and how you transitioned from your years as a student to a young professional, and so on.
> 
> With that in mind, and I apologize for the very lengthy post, but I figured the best way for you guys to advise me on where I'm going, is to see where I'm currently at. Hear is a look at the important parts of my wardrobe:
> 
> ...


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## Scott Anderson (Nov 20, 2008)

*Thanks Doc*

Always appreciate the recommendations!


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

I dont see having a pony on my shirt quite as disgusting as many people on here. I enjoy Polo, so I say wear those all you want with some chinos, a tie and a navy blazer. I wouldnt wear a logo with a suit, but when I wear a seersucker or navy blazer I wouldnt think twice about wearing Ralph. I will buy more Ralph in the future, I like the way they fit me and mine have lasted years. For ones with no logo I would def go with BB, and Lands End hasnt been bad for me either. 

For chinos I say Lands End legacy, around $30 a pair and they will last forever. I like J Crew chinos also. I always go to Gap for jeans, theres always a sale so I get out of there with jeans for around $30 too. 

Being from the south I bucks and saddles are great. And since Im not too far south in the winter with snow its bean boots. Get some Bass Weejuns for loafers.. Theyre cheap, look good and last for a long time. And I love Sperrys I dont care if theyre trendy now or not. I dont worry to much about not being trendy, if Trad is trendy Ill be trendy. If trad isnt trendy, to hell with trends. My next purchase will be Bean rubber mocs for walking to class in the summer rains and football games after storms. 

North Face and Patagonia are the best for jackets. I love my North Face fleece and like tde my next jacket will be a Patagonia fleece. For a down coat go to North Face, the one I have is now on sale for $100, and it's very good. 

And with sweaters, get shaggy dog from J. Press. I own nothing from J. Press but that will be the first thing I get from there unless I find something super cheap on the Bay or in a thrift store. I like crews from Polo and BB. 

If you wear bow ties I like R Haneur and BB. Repp ties are always the best IMO.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

YoungTrad said:


> I dont see having a pony on my shirt quite as disgusting as many people on here. I enjoy Polo, so I say wear those all you want with some chinos, a tie and a navy blazer. I wouldnt wear a logo with a suit, but when I wear a seersucker or navy blazer I wouldnt think twice about wearing Ralph. I will buy more Ralph in the future, I like the way they fit me and mine have lasted years. For ones with no logo I would def go with BB, and Lands End hasnt been bad for me either.
> 
> For chinos I say Lands End legacy, around $30 a pair and they will last forever. I like J Crew chinos also. I always go to Gap for jeans, theres always a sale so I get out of there with jeans for around $30 too.
> 
> ...


If he's a good ol' Texas boy, I don't think the Shaggy Dog is the best choice of sweater. I love my Press, but items like Shaggy Dog's have their place. and season. and climate...

Side note: I find it quite amusing all the college-aged lurkers who are starting to come out of the wood work.


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## Cactus (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks to all of you guy for the continued response and suggestions. I really appreciate it, and have a lot of information to take in and help guide me in adding to my wardrobe in the future.



Memphis88 said:


> Ditch the Citizens and R&Rs. I wasted a good $1,000 or more on "designer denim" before realizing how ridiculous they looked and how cheaply they were made. It kills me to think of what I could have purchased with that money instead of getting those jeans. Boot cut jeans aren't a good look for your drivers, either. Get a pair of APCs. You won't regret it, I promise.


Thanks for the heads up on the APCs, I checked out their site and really like the look of the jeans. Where do you buy yours and do you know who all carries them? Jeans can be hit or miss, so I would like to give them a try on before purchase, and would prefer to not buy them online.

Yeah, the R&R boot cuts are strictly worn with boots, but the Citizens "jagger" cut is much more tapered at the bottom and actually looks pretty good with the drivers. Thanks for looking out though.



tdecast said:


> I'm 23, graduated undergrad last May and am from Fort Worth, TX if that makes my opinion count any more for you.
> 
> Your wardrobe nearly mimics my high school wardrobe, I was pretty much an RL poster boy.
> 
> ...


Hahaha, just had to hit me with the Arlington jab. I'll be the first to say that a lot of Arlington is somewhat unsightly and not worth inhabiting, but I have to defend my stomping grounds and vouch for the shrinking but nice part of Arlington that has not gone downhill with much of the city. I could not agree more with your thoughts on Express, and in my defense, I only have a standard pair of black slacks and a couple of conservative ties from there.

I do like your rule on not wearing a collar with a logo (expands on my own personal rule; no ties with logos - which I'm sure all of you maintain), but it can be hard to avoid when it comes to polo shirts and sport shirts. To your point on the 7 jeans, I don't see any major issues with a pair of "designer" jeans and you can find many in conservative washes sans holes, outrageous designs, etc. (like my R&Rs and Citizens). I realize it's not considered "trad", but if you like them, go for it. I don't see myself buying any more of those sort, but I think APCs are worth a look (mentioned by Memphis earlier in the thread).

I think saying that Banana Republic is metro/guido is kind of a stretch, metro - maybe, but guido - certainly not. It's not like they're peddling bedazzled dragon shirts by Christian Audigier, or other nonsense like you would find at a store like The Buckle. Then again, it's not trad, but it certainly has some trad-inspired pieces. The basic sweaters from there aren't bad and mine have been holding up quite well. My drivers from there are also your standard basic leather driving loafer.

I'm actually in search for a replacement pair of boots as mine are on their last leg and have received a near death blow while at my buddies' frats theme party down in Austin earlier this year. I'll definitely have to take a look into Lucchese though. As far as the topsiders go, I do see what you mean, I see waaaaay too many kids in Sperrys. However, most of the Abercrombie & Fitch/ Hollister types aren't wearing the classic topsider boat shoe, which is the only one I really care about wearing. So although Sperry as a brand has getting a lot of love from some unsavory types, the classic topsider still isn't _that _widespread amongst the douche-bag masses.

Definitely a lot of good helpful suggestions tdecast.



YoungTrad said:


> I dont see having a pony on my shirt quite as disgusting as many people on here. I enjoy Polo, so I say wear those all you want with some chinos, a tie and a navy blazer. I wouldnt wear a logo with a suit, but when I wear a seersucker or navy blazer I wouldnt think twice about wearing Ralph. I will buy more Ralph in the future, I like the way they fit me and mine have lasted years. For ones with no logo I would def go with BB, and Lands End hasnt been bad for me either.
> 
> For chinos I say Lands End legacy, around $30 a pair and they will last forever. I like J Crew chinos also. I always go to Gap for jeans, theres always a sale so I get out of there with jeans for around $30 too.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice YoungTrad. Glad to see someone that doesn't have a negative view of Ralph. I've been hearing a lot about both LE and J Crew chinos on this site, I'll be looking into both next time I'm in the market for some new chinos - as my RLPs are still in good shape. I'll probably be adding a new heavier casual jacket/coat to my wardrobe during the non-winter months so I'll definitely be on the lookout for a Patagonia for a good price, or potentially another North Face. I know many members love Barbour, so I may give those a look as well.


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

AdamsSutherland said:


> If he's a good ol' Texas boy, I don't think the Shaggy Dog is the best choice of sweater. I love my Press, but items like Shaggy Dog's have their place. and season. and climate...
> 
> Side note: I find it quite amusing all the college-aged lurkers who are starting to come out of the wood work.


Yeah you have def. got a point AS about the Press sweater. I didnt think about the climate nor that a good ole texas boy wouldnt like Press.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

*Longest AAAT jean post yet? I apologize.*



YoungTrad said:


> Yeah you have def. got a point AS about the Press sweater. I didnt think about the climate nor that a good ole texas boy wouldnt like Press.


I didn't mention anything regarding not liking Press...

Cactus,

Go to the other forum (SF) and post some questions in the APC thread about fit... maybe measure your jeans' various dimensions and ask what would work best for what you're looking for. I don't know what your build is, but if you are a slimmer guy, I'll say they'll suggest New Standards and if you have big legs- Rescues. Rule of thumb is to size down two sizes- for two reasons. One is because raw denim stretches, to fit (I might add), and two because APC has a little vanity sizing thing going on. I wear a 34 in 7's and I would have picked up a 32 in the Rescues. The streetwear and denim guys will take care of you over there.

FWIW, AlanC, the Sartorial Sultan himself, even has a pair of selvage denim jeans. RRL I believe.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

As a clarification on my earlier post, I'm not taking a position on whether one should or should not wear jeans, whether or not they fit somewhere into the Trad aesthetic, etc.

I simply wanted to contend with GBR's comment that one _needs _jeans to not be considered an eccentric, to be accepted in society, or to be successful.

I, in fact, do own one pair of jeans but almost always prefer khakis (in comfort and style).


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## At Law (Apr 15, 2008)

Just for the record, I like the Polo Pony on OCBD's and polo shirts.

A plain OCBD worn sans tie with a blue blazer looks out of place,
in my eyes. It looks to formal for a quasi casual blue blazer.
The polo player adds a subtle touch of prep to the ensemble.

Wear the pony with pride. :icon_smile:


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Hmm. I don't see the polo pony as "subtle". And I don't see the OCBD as a formal shirt that can't be worn with a blazer unless there's a tie involved. Dang, and I don't see jeans as a requirement for anything. I'm outta here


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Joe Beamish said:


> Hmm. I don't see the polo pony as "subtle". And I don't see the OCBD as a formal shirt that can't be worn with a blazer unless there's a tie involved. Dang, and I don't see jeans as a requirement for anything. I'm outta here


:icon_cheers:


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## At Law (Apr 15, 2008)

Joe Beamish said:


> Hmm. I don't see the polo pony as "subtle". And I don't see the OCBD as a formal shirt that can't be worn with a blazer unless there's a tie involved. Dang, and I don't see jeans as a requirement for anything. I'm outta here


I frequently wear a RL OCBD (with the logo)on it with a navy blazer,
jeans, and pennies / tassels, and no tie.

This is a perfect combination for travel by plane or doing a little
shopping on a Sat/Sun.


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

AdamsSutherland said:


> I didn't mention anything regarding not liking Press...
> 
> And I didnt mention Shaggy Dog after I said Press. My apologies.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

At Law said:


> I frequently wear a RL OCBD (with the logo)on it with a navy blazer,
> jeans, and pennies / tassels, and no tie.
> 
> This is a perfect combination for travel by plane or doing a little
> shopping on a Sat/Sun.


If you were wearing it with a blazer, wouldn't it not show and thus be irrelevant? also, aren't you not supposed to wear a tie with button down collars?

I don't like polo because I see thugs wearing huge jeans, wearing XXXL RL polos, with wife beaters underneath (you can usually see the outline of it underneath the polo) and flat billled hats with the stickers on.

On the other hand, I see lots of people that think wearing polo makes them "preppy" or whatever and they have several pairs of polo logo hats that they wear in conjunction with their RL polo shirts or OBDCs that we call "going double horse". i also see people with polo hats that are all dirty and torn up. (this paragraph references some of my friends actually haha) i had a friend that once bragged about having on polo pants, a polo belt, an RL polo shirt and a polo hat.

to each his own though. certainly don't throw away your current RL OBDCs or polos, i only gave away my size small polos from high school that i don't fit into anymore...


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Indeed. The Polo logo has been whored out ad nauseam


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

tdecast said:


> aren't you not supposed to wear a tie with button down collars?


I wear ties with OCBDs 4 days a week. Although you are correct in that that is often seen as a rule (more so over in the Fashion Forum), this is the Trad Forum where dressing down the formal and dressing up the casual are the norms (so the OCBD is a perfect tool in both scenarios). Also, since thrift is often considered a Trad virtue, this can mean one can buy half the shirts of another man (OCBDs working double duty as dress shirts and sport shirts).


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Quite right, Coleman, I agree. But I think tdecast was pointing out an apparent contradiction in At Law's statements (i.e., first he said you shouldn't wear an OCBD without a tie, then later he reports wearing an Polo OCBD without a tie....) I think


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

That's probably true, and I should have added that I agree with tdecast on all of his points except that one (and even that one to the extent that it is commonly seen as a sartorial rule).


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

Coleman said:


> I wear ties with OCBDs 4 days a week. Although you are correct in that that is often seen as a rule (more so over in the Fashion Forum), this is the Trad Forum where dressing down the formal and dressing up the casual are the norms (so the OCBD is a perfect tool in both scenarios). Also, since thrift is often considered a Trad virtue, this can mean one can buy half the shirts of another man (OCBDs working double duty as dress shirts and sport shirts).


for tailgates during football games at my school we traditionally took dates and wore ties. i would always wear ties with button down collars, collar button unbuttoned. most of us would wear them sans blazer and sometimes with shorts too.

but i don't really see myself ever wearing a tie without a suit and therefore a shirt with a point collar now that i've graduated. love the blazer/sportcoat sans tie look.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

Joe Beamish said:


> Quite right, Coleman, I agree. But I think tdecast was pointing out an apparent contradiction in At Law's statements (i.e., first he said you shouldn't wear an OCBD without a tie, then later he reports wearing an Polo OCBD without a tie....) I think


i'm confusued. i dont think i ever said you shouldn't wear an OCBD without a tie. I meant that you (technically) shouldn't wear a button down collar WITH a tie.

although i will admit (in my above post) that i did wear ties with button down collars for tailgates in college, but then again i also wore ties without a jacket, and sometimes shorts! but the tie was just tradition and it was usually warm outside (shorts) and we usually got pretty drunk (didn't want to ruin any jackets)


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

tdecast said:


> for tailgates during football games at my school we traditionally took dates and wore ties. i would always wear ties with button down collars, collar button unbuttoned. most of us would wear them sans blazer and sometimes with shorts too.
> 
> but i don't really see myself ever wearing a tie without a suit and therefore a shirt with a point collar now that i've graduated. love the blazer/sportcoat sans tie look.


I've often wondered what collar I'd wear with suits (I'm more of an odd jacket man). Maybe a club collar, or a pinned point collar . . . but really, I'd probably just stick with my OCBDs :devil:.



tdecast said:


> i'm confusued. i dont think i ever said you shouldn't wear an OCBD without a tie. I meant that you (technically) shouldn't wear a button down collar WITH a tie.
> 
> although i will admit (in my above post) that i did wear ties with button down collars for tailgates in college, but then again i also wore ties without a jacket, and sometimes shorts! but the tie was just tradition and it was usually warm outside (shorts) and we usually got pretty drunk (didn't want to ruin any jackets)


Joe was detailing At Law's contradiction in his parenthetical, not yours.


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## jwlester (Oct 20, 2009)

As a "younger" member here but still several years out of college, I find it interesting to note that most of what you think you know, will change after a couple years "in the work force". Likely, you will learn a great deal from those you work with. Either because they are classic men or because they are poorly dressed, classless dullards.

Cheers, Josh


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

Pick up classic items that will last the rest of your life. My favorites are a ss Rolex watch, aldens and English-made polo shell cordovan footwear, barbour beaufort and baracuta g9 jackets, persol 649 sunglasses, and bb shirts. Jpress and Italian-made polo suits, blazers, and sportcoats. Not all Trad, but these are things I like.


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## MR MILLER (Feb 23, 2010)

smujd said:


> Why would anyone feel bad about cowboy boots? I'm wearing cowboy boots to the office today. Hell, I got married in cowboy boots!
> 
> Cactus--there are substantial regional variations on trad. Yankees just don't get boots. Or trucks. Or BBQ. Or blondes. But I digress...


i almost fell out of my chair i laughed so hard :icon_smile_big:


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

I wear my OCBD with a jacket and tie every day. Everything stays buttoned and the tie stays on 8am-5pm. When I wear suits, I wear them with an OCBD.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I'm not much for hard and fast rules, like certain collars with ties or jackets or what. I don't like observing all the rules myself and I seldom like the way it looks on others*. I generally think, though, that I'm breaking a trad rule in reaching outside the canon (tuxedo slippers, Borrelli shirts, slim jeans, etc.) rather than plucking from trad here and there. If that makes any sense. 

*an exception would be Coleman. Maybe it's because we're in the same age group, but his rigorous adherence to The Sacred Code generally has more visual interest to my eye than most in terms of overall composition.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Trip English said:


> I'm not much for hard and fast rules, like certain collars with ties or jackets or what. I don't like observing all the rules myself and I seldom like the way it looks on others*. I generally think, though, that I'm breaking a trad rule in reaching outside the canon (tuxedo slippers, Borrelli shirts, slim jeans, etc.) rather than plucking from trad here and there. If that makes any sense.
> 
> *an exception would be Coleman. Maybe it's because we're in the same age group, but his rigorous adherence to The Sacred Code generally has more visual interest to my eye than most in terms of overall composition.


I think this can possibly be attributed to the notion that most things look good when you wear them with confidence. Divergence from the rules is likely to end well if you have a decent eye and the confidence to wear what you pick.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Trip English said:


> I'm not much for hard and fast rules, like certain collars with ties or jackets or what. I don't like observing all the rules myself and I seldom like the way it looks on others*. I generally think, though, that I'm breaking a trad rule in reaching outside the canon (tuxedo slippers, Borrelli shirts, slim jeans, etc.) rather than plucking from trad here and there. If that makes any sense.
> 
> *an exception would be Coleman. Maybe it's because we're in the same age group, but his rigorous adherence to The Sacred Code generally has more visual interest to my eye than most in terms of overall composition.


Very high praise, Trip. Thank you.

Although, I must say, I worship (not in a creepy way ) the ol' timer adherents to "The Sacred Code."

I think of my participation in the Trad aesthetic the same way I think of great literary writing. To me, a great writer communicates through his/her writing with the past and contemporary greats through allusion that illuminates his/her writing in a profound way. A good writer, at best, works through imitation (in the hopes of developing a profound use of allusion).

At best, I've only risen to the level of a good imitator. I've still got work to do :icon_smile_big:.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I think that when someone in their 20s or 30s who still retains a youthful physical appearance adheres so rigorously to the aesthetic it becomes more of a juxtaposition the closer he gets to the archetype.

When I see our elder statesmen in their trad finery I'm impressed, but often find myself drawn to individual details like the pattern of a tie, the roll of a lapel, etc. It looks so natural for the age group. When men our age put on those same clothes, I think it makes a more profound visual statement.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

Got Shell? said:


> Pick up classic items that will last the rest of your life.


At the end of the day- this is it. There are lots of "classics." Trads sport some of the most practical, comfortable and robust versions of the classics. If you like the sound of that, stick around and heed our advice.


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## R0ME0 (Feb 10, 2010)

Cactus said:


> Hey guys, new to the forum as a member but I have been reading and absorbing information for a fair amount of time. Figured I would introduce myself and see if I could get a little style advice. I'm currently a 20-year old undergraduate/future law student, and call Texas home. I've always dressed in a conservative / "fratty" / fairly preppy manner, and as I've grown older so has my appreciation for the American trad style. I'm sure nearly all of you are older and have more expertise, so I come to you, hat in hand, to pick your brain on how you developed your own personal "trad" style and how you transitioned from your years as a student to a young professional, and so on.
> 
> With that in mind, and I apologize for the very lengthy post, but I figured the best way for you guys to advise me on where I'm going, is to see where I'm currently at. Hear is a look at the important parts of my wardrobe:
> 
> ...


Cactus,

Welcome!

You may want to shop @ https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/ & www.jpressonline.com for trad clothing. You will never go wrong shopping in those two stores.


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## HalfLegend (Aug 1, 2010)

Trip English said:


> It's not about the depth of the wardrobe (though this will undoubtedly develop over time), but about managing incoming items in a number of ways:
> 
> *1. Essentiality:* just as important as fitting the Trad canon, is whether the item is an essential. In other words, don't go getting some lilac check sport shirt when you don't already have a stack of blue & white OCBDs. So much of Trad is bout the beauty of the basics.
> 
> ...


Sorry to reopen this dead thread but this post is pretty has pretty much summarized what I'm trying to do with myself for this year. Just wanted to thank the man who said this. Wow, Trip English, you know what TRAD really is.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

^^^^

"Trip" and "Trad" share two letters.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

4. Versatility: You mentioned that you held on to the Rock & Republic jeans for going out. WRONG! Sockless loafers, white OCBD, khakis. That's what you go out in. It's a party? Wear a ribbon belt with pink elephants! You drink G&Ts and wear a lamp shade on your head. You tell ribald tales. You age prematurely and remain perpetually immature. You're never quite as dressed up at work or dressed down in repose. You are an enigma. You are TRAD.
-Trip

I'm 99%% sure this is the post of 2010 on AAAC. In fact, it was on my facebook for a period of time (well, 2 of the last 3 sentences)


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## HalfLegend (Aug 1, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> 4. Versatility: You mentioned that you held on to the Rock & Republic jeans for going out. WRONG! Sockless loafers, white OCBD, khakis. That's what you go out in. It's a party? Wear a ribbon belt with pink elephants! You drink G&Ts and wear a lamp shade on your head. You tell ribald tales. You age prematurely and remain perpetually immature. You're never quite as dressed up at work or dressed down in repose. You are an enigma. You are TRAD.
> -Trip
> 
> I'm 99%% sure this is the post of 2010 on AAAC. In fact, it was on my facebook for a period of time (well, 2 of the last 3 sentences)


Noone can argue with you there. Nevertheless, this is quite and interesting thread. As we find ourselves a year later, what does everything thing is going to be this years "go to" prep brand? It seems once again Polo faces this sort of problem:


tdecast said:


> If you were wearing it with a blazer, wouldn't it not show and thus be irrelevant? also, aren't you not supposed to wear a tie with button down collars?
> 
> I don't like polo because I see thugs wearing huge jeans, wearing XXXL RL polos, with wife beaters underneath (you can usually see the outline of it underneath the polo) and flat billled hats with the stickers on.
> 
> ...


in addition to being poor value. Is BB still king?


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