# Matching Suits to Suspenders?



## sushichick (Jun 28, 2006)

I've always been a big fan of suspenders and was thrilled my boyfriend said he'd like a new suit as well as a pair of suspenders to wear to a wedding this Saturday! We went shopping last night and he bought a beautiful chocolate brown suit...unfortunately, the gentleman who was helping us was in some kind of hurry and quickly passed us off to the cashier after we selected a shirt and tie. So my boyfriend left feeling slightly uncomfortable because he was sock and suspender-less. So I'm going out tomorrow to pick something up and I'm okay with picking out socks but am lost when it comes to suspenders. Should they be lighter or darker? Match the suit or the tie? Coordinate with the shirt?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I've Googled like a madwoman and come up empty handed! Thanks so much!


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

The only things that need to "match" are the leather ends: these should match the shoes. Or, if not an exact match, at least no clashing, i.e., no black with brown. However, there is no need to get obsessive about matching shades of brown.

Suspenders can reflect one or more colors in suit, tie, or shirt. The easiest thing for you, probably, would be to get a pair of solid suspenders that reflect the color of his tie. I know from experience that decent solid brown suspenders are hard to find, whereas solid navy and burgundy are everywhere.

Brown suspenders with a brown suit allow for a lot of shirt and tie possibilities. Constrasting colors limit you a bit more, but are easy to work with within those limited circumstances. I.e., everyone typically has several dark blue ties, so one pair of dark blue suspnders will always be useful.


----------



## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

I would concur with all of Manton's points (of course...) As a matter of interest, is the suit buttoned for braces or will you have to buy clip-ons?


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Anthony Jordan said:


> I would concur with all of Manton's points (of course...) As a matter of interest, is the suit buttoned for braces or will you have to buy clip-ons?


Ugh. If not buttoned for braces, sew them in yourself! This is important! Clip-ons are for farmers and circus clowns. There, I said it.

Most suspeders are sold with a little ziplock baggie containing six domed buttons. They are not hard to sew into the trouser waistband.


----------



## sushichick (Jun 28, 2006)

Thanks so much - now I can shop with confidence!


----------



## sushichick (Jun 28, 2006)

You know, I don't know if they came with buttons but I agree, clips would make him look like a fashion amateur! I think I'll give them a ring and find out before I shop. Unfortunately, we're not getting the suit back until the morning of the wedding so there might not be time to sew buttons on but perhaps they could do that while altering it....


----------



## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

manton said:


> Ugh. If not buttoned for braces, sew them in yourself! This is important! Clip-ons are for farmers and circus clowns. There, I said it.
> 
> Most suspeders are sold with a little ziplock baggie containing six domed buttons. They are not hard to sew into the trouser waistband.


I did pull a face whilst I typed but I know that certain of our fellows are very against putting buttons into trousers not cut for braces so I decided not to go down that route, even though I invariably do it myself.

Susi - your alteration tailor should certainly be able to do it but you might want to provide the braces in case they are in any doubt how the buttons should be positioned/spaced.

A.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Anthony Jordan said:


> I did pull a face whilst I typed but I know that certain of our fellows are very against putting buttons into trousers not cut for braces so I decided not to go down that route, even though I invariably do it myself.


Good point. I wonder if we are just confusing the poor girl.

Sushi, typcially, trousers meant to be work with suspenders are cut to sit higher on the waist. Most RTW trousers are not cut this way. It's possible that your guy's suit is more suited to wearing with a belt. Something to think about.


----------



## sushichick (Jun 28, 2006)

My head is swimming - just kidding! It's actually going to be altered so I called the shop to ask about the buttons and they're going to add them. Do you think, without having him there, they'll be able to place to buttons?

And I think this suit was cut to sit a little bit higher because...well, he always wears baggy pants and these seem to actually fit and, ahem, flatter.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

sushichick said:


> Do you think, without having him there, they'll be able to place to buttons?


Yes, the button placement is pretty formulaic. You don't need the client there for that.

Do the trousers have belt loops? It's traditional to remove those if one knows that the suit will always be worn with suspenders.


----------



## SmartDresser (Jan 10, 2005)

manton said:


> Ugh. If not buttoned for braces, sew them in yourself! This is important! Clip-ons are for farmers and circus clowns. There, I said it.


In addition, the alligator clips can ruin fine woolen trousers. Bracers for fine clothing, clips for old guys who can not find a belt that fits their beer belly.


----------



## sushichick (Jun 28, 2006)

manton said:


> Yes, the button placement is pretty formulaic. You don't need the client there for that.
> 
> Do the trousers have belt loops? It's traditional to remove those if one knows that the suit will always be worn with suspenders.


Hmm, I'm guessing it had belt loops...but I'm going to feel a little silly calling to ask again...if it's traditional, do you think they'll remove them or will they leave them on so the pants will be (although perhaps tacky) multi-functional?


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

sushichick said:


> Hmm, I'm guessing it had belt loops...but I'm going to feel a little silly calling to ask again...if it's traditional, do you think they'll remove them or will they leave them on so the pants with be (although perhaps tacky) multi-functional?


I doubt they will take them off unless you ask them to. It's not a big deal, really. 100% traditional brace trousers have a high, v-notched back and a 2 to 3 inch waistband extension. I'll bet these don't have those, either! So it's not as though belt loops are some kind of deal breaker.


----------



## sushichick (Jun 28, 2006)

No v-notch, I remember that. He won't know the difference, though, and I highly doubt any of our friends will either so it'll be our little secret!

Thanks again for your help - I just called him to let him know his suspender woes were over and done with. He was so impressed that I had found this site and that the people were so incredibly helpful! I'll certainly keep this site in mind for the future!


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Thank you. If you want to make sure Hubby continues to be well-dressed, this is the place!


----------



## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

sushichick said:


> No v-notch, I remember that. He won't know the difference, though, and I highly doubt any of our friends will either so it'll be our little secret!
> 
> Thanks again for your help - I just called him to let him know his suspender woes were over and done with. He was so impressed that I had found this site and that the people were so incredibly helpful! I'll certainly keep this site in mind for the future!


In case you'd be interested, there is a dedicated specifically to women's clothing.


----------



## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

manton said:


> The only things that need to "match" are the leather ends: these should match the shoes. Or, if not an exact match, at least no clashing, i.e., no black with brown. However, there is no need to get obsessive about matching shades of brown.


This one's news to me. Does that mean I can wear only white shoes with my Thurston gut-end braces?


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Blackadder said:


> This one's news to me. Does that mean I can wear only white shoes with my Thurston gut-end braces?


No. Since the questioner is not male, is new to the finer points of men's dressing, and explicitly asked for basic adivice, I assumed that introducing the topic of white gut end suspenders (which are only made by one company in the entire world, and sold only online and in a very small number of high end shops) into the conversation would only needlessly confuse her.

You may personally disagree with "no brown ends with black shoes" or "no black ends with brown shoes", but personally, I still think it is good advice for someone in her situation. It is also a fairly widely observed guideline, and one I prefer to follow myself. As ever, everyone is free to wear whatever combination he wants.


----------



## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Blackadder said:


> Thanks for the clarification.


You're welcome! That's what's so great about Ask Andy, the genuine exchange of advice and information in a spirit of camaraderie.


----------



## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

Susi - in the event that you do find a pair of braces with white leather ends and like them, I would not worry about matching as most people consider this a "wild" card - equally acceptable with most styles and colours of suit and shoe.

Do please tell us what you come up with!

Anthony.


----------



## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

Anthony Jordan said:


> Susi - in the event that you do find a pair of braces with white leather ends and like them, I would not worry about matching as most people consider this a "wild" card - equally acceptable with most styles and colours of suit and shoe.
> 
> Do please tell us what you come up with!
> 
> Anthony.


Sushichick: Anthony Jordan's advice was correct but perhaps ambiguous. If you end up buying the braces with white leather ends (which are my favorite, by the way) you should worry about matching the shoes to the leather ends. You should worry because matching the shoes to the white leather ends would be pretty awful and should be avoided.

I am sure that is what was meant, but I worry for poor Andy's reputation.


----------



## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

manton said:


> I doubt they will take them off unless you ask them to. It's not a big deal, really. 100% traditional brace trousers have a high, v-notched back and a 2 to 3 inch waistband extension. I'll bet these don't have those, either! So it's not as though belt loops are some kind of deal breaker.


Sushichick:
I am going to have to disagree with manton on two points and on conflicting grounds.

First, while I tend to get hung up on many bits of propriety, I cannot be bothered with whether the brace tab ends match my shoes. I don't mean only the white end tabs, which are my preference and, as discussed above are exempt from matching, but also the black and brown end tabs. When I wear a belt, I am careful that it is generally consistent with my shoes, but brace/suspender tabs don't matter to me. Manton correctly states the traditional guideline but it is not one I care about, and I suggest you don't burden your boyfriend with the concern. Let him acquire his own hangups naturally.

On the other hand, and coming from the opposite direction, I would never have belt loops on trousers worn with braces. Never. Ever. Belt loops need a belt or you just look sloppy. If I was wearing suspenders with pants that had belt loops I fear I would be frozen catatonic and unable to leave the house. Having to decide between either belt and suspenders or belt loops with no belt would cause instant shutdown [*]. Of course you have a practical concern - will your boyfriend wear suspenders or will he prefer a belt? It would be a shame to remove the belt loops and then find out he will only wear a belt. My advice is to get rid of the loops as soon as you know he will use the suspenders or force the issue and get rid of them now. If you don't deal with it now, you may not remember to do it later, relegating him to a lifetime of shame.

[*] As I wrote this I was reminded of a favorite conundrum posed by my undergraduate philosophy professor: What would you do if you were up to your neck in a tank of vomit and someone tossed a bucket of szhit at you? Would you duck? I changed classes.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Well, if we are going to confuse the poor girl after all, then she should know that there are two -- wait, three -- kinds of white ends. There are the original Thurston gut ends with hand-sewn tabs. These are prized, but not made any more and very hard to find. There are the replacement for those, which have the same hand-sewn tabs but a coverd, thicker end strap. Personally, I don't care much for these. Then are white ends that are cut exactly like the typical black and brown leather ends. These, to me, are just blah and to be avoided.

Also, we may as well mention braided silk ends. Purists will say that these are strictly for formal wear. I tend to agree. But many companies make silk ended braces that are definitely meant for suits. The silk ended braces will still have leather "foritifications" at the end of the shoulder and back straps.

As to matching, my advice would be:

White ends: any color shoe, though English purists would say black only.

Black ends: black shoes

Brown ends: brown shoes; no need to match shades exactly, but try to avoid a really disparate combination, e.g., tan with dark oak

Silk braids: depends on the leather fortifications. If black or brown, then pair with the same colored shoe. If gray suede or some eclectic color, then any color shoe.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

dopey said:


> I would never have belt loops on trousers worn with braces. Never. Ever.


I wouldn't either, but she is not asking for advice on how to make her guy dress like us loons. She asking for advice on helping a normal male with a normal lack of clothing obsession do a decent job of matching suspenders to his suit and tie. I mean, you can take the belt loops off, but there still won't be a waistband extension. That's wrong! If we want him to really do it right, then, by God, we ought to insist that he go to London and order bespoke brace trousers with a high rise, waistband extension, rear strap, double forward pleats, and fishmouth back. Anything less is heresy! Get him!


----------



## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

manton said:


> which are only made by one company in the entire world


Alas, past tense now - as Manton pointed out in a subsequent posting.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Trilby said:


> Alas, past tense now - as Manton pointed out in a subsequent posting.


They still make white, and the handsewn tabs are the same. But the end strap is "covered" with plain leather, and really does not look as nice to me. Also, it does not develop that wonderful patina over time. Sigh.


----------



## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Trilby said:


> Alas, past tense now - as Manton pointed out in a subsequent posting.


 Wrong ... as Kabbaz pointed out in a previous posting. There is one company remaining that will still create these brace ends two months each year (September and January), but only for its existing clients.


----------



## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

What kind of portent is it when Kabbaz begins posting about himself in the third person?


----------



## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Will said:


> What kind of portent is it when Kabbaz begins posting about himself in the third person?


OMG! Someone must have hacked his password. I hear he's spending the Summer teaching art to 400 other people's children. Except on Sundays when he is in Vermont chasing after white deer to use for handmade brace ends.


----------



## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Handmade deer gut? Poor Bambi!


----------



## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

manton said:


> Well, if we are going to confuse the poor girl after all, then she should know that there are two -- wait, three -- kinds of white ends. There are the original Thurston gut ends with hand-sewn tabs. These are prized, but not made any more and very hard to find. There are the replacement for those, which have the same hand-sewn tabs but a coverd, thicker end strap. Personally, I don't care much for these. Then are white ends that are cut exactly like the typical black and brown leather ends. These, to me, are just blah and to be avoided.


I think Manton has hit this hierarchy perfectly. Plain white leather ends without the handsewn tabs are incredibly naff.



manton said:


> a high rise, waistband extension, rear strap, double forward pleats, and fishmouth back. Anything less is heresy!


rear strap AND waistband extension AND braceback??? Having fun imagining that!


----------



## LoneWolf (Apr 20, 2006)

Gentlemen, 

If I may playfully complicate this matter....if we are to match ends with shoes, then what of the metal adjusters? As you know, they come in gold and silver tones, and may be made of brass or other. Does one match one's watch metal to the metal adjuster on the braces? What if one wears a tie clip, wedding (or other) ring? Are we to have the same accessories in silver and gold to go with our brace adjusters?

Personally, I always wear braces, frequently have to add the buttons, and never bother to match the ends with the shoes, although I do feel a tiny pang when I'm not coordinated. As for belt loops, it's never occurred to me to cut mine off. Once again I've learned something new from this forum.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Blackadder said:


> rear strap AND waistband extension AND braceback??? Having fun imagining that!


Not hard to imagine. That's a typical Savile Row trouser.


----------



## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

Perhaps I misunderstand your terminology. Is a waistband extender the same thing as a side tab? And is a rear strap the same thing as a rear tab (sometimes used in place of a sidetab)?


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

A waistband extension is just that: the waistband extends 3" or so past the fly, on the right side. This is common -- I would say desirable, almost required -- on all brace or beltloop-less trousers.

The rear strap is a strap and buckle that theoretically tightens the trousers. If the trousers fit well, it is mostly just decorative. Side straps (or tabs) and buckles are more commonly seen on non-high back trousers. The rear strap is a hallmark of high back trousers.


----------



## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

I see. I was always under the impression that once one had a braceback trouser, all those little extender tabs (be they side or rear) were considered unnecessary. (None of my several SR trousers have them, for instance.) Having a rear extender tab could be quite cool, however.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

It's not an extender tab. By "extension" I mean that the waistband in front extends past the fly. There is a 3" or so overlap. This is standard on all non-belted trousers.

The rear strap is sort of like the more typical side straps: pieces of superfluous cloth sewn onto the trousers. The set up I like is what tailors call "deuling pistols": it looks like two antique (Hamilton era) guns pointed at eachother barrel to barrel.


----------



## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

Not quite Savile Row, but this is what I understand a back adjuster to look like:


----------



## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

dopey said:


> Sushichick: Anthony Jordan's advice was correct but perhaps ambiguous. If you end up buying the braces with white leather ends (which are my favorite, by the way) you should worry about matching the shoes to the leather ends. You should worry because matching the shoes to the white leather ends would be pretty awful and should be avoided.
> 
> I am sure that is what was meant, but I worry for poor Andy's reputation.


What - no brown suit/white bucks combinations?: https://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j281/AnthonyJordan_2006/EsquireOct35-FourFashionSketchesfor.jpg


----------



## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

*Nice Try*

Nice try, but you know that white bucks are sueded and the white brace ends are smooth


----------



## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

dopey said:


> Nice try, but you know that white bucks are sueded and the white brace ends are smooth


Curses! Foiled again!


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

dopey said:


> Nice try, but you know that white bucks are sueded and the white brace ends are smooth


Not mine. The older white tabs were partly suede.


----------



## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Anthony Jordan said:


> Not quite Savile Row, but this is what I understand a back adjuster to look like:


Sort of, but a little lower down, and no belt loop.


----------



## Bracemaker (May 11, 2005)

Why did nobody think to wake me - here you all are yakking on about my favourite subject (well, nearly).
I have to throw a minor wobbly and point out that standard white runner leather ends have been made for donkey's years, and for some of the finest retailers and tailors worldwide - and therefore presumably worn by their discerning clientele. It stands to reason (as Just William would say) that 'incredible naffness' must be in the eye of the non-beholder, as you're not supposed to be able to be able to see them anyway.
The 'patina' which gut ends supposedly acquire is also a bit of a myth. Anything you wear and never wash will acquire a 'patina' - I have ancient ones still in their boxes and they are yet to get patina-ted...
Getting back to the original question it is interesting to note that some tailors have taken to matching / toning lining colours with brace fabrics, and vice versa.


----------



## Anthony Jordan (Apr 29, 2005)

Bracemaker said:


> Why did nobody think to wake me - here you all are yakking on about my favourite subject (well, nearly).
> I have to throw a minor wobbly and point out that standard white runner leather ends have been made for donkey's years, and for some of the finest retailers and tailors worldwide - and therefore presumably worn by their discerning clientele. It stands to reason (as Just William would say) that 'incredible naffness' must be in the eye of the non-beholder, as you're not supposed to be able to be able to see them anyway.


Don't worry Richard - I like them still...

On another tack, are there many of the old gut-end pairs left?

Anthony.


----------



## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

Bracemaker said:


> I have to throw a minor wobbly and point out that standard white runner leather ends have been made for donkey's years, and for some of the finest retailers and tailors worldwide - and therefore presumably worn by their discerning clientele. It stands to reason (as Just William would say) that 'incredible naffness' must be in the eye of the non-beholder, as you're not supposed to be able to be able to see them anyway.


"In your heart, you know he's naff." I think Goldwater used this, didn't he? Or was it Trollope?


----------



## sushichick (Jun 28, 2006)

Egads - I never thought this would have carried on after I left the office yesterday! Anyway, I'm off to suspender shop this evening (the shoes are maroonish by the way) and have actually printed off much of this advice. I'm either going to be an expert or burst into tears because there are too many choices but I'll find none of them satisfactory because his suit still has belt loops and no three inch extension (which, technically, would make me even *more* of an expert). 

Anyway, I'll definitely let you know what I come up with. And Dopey and Manton - you two are adorable...there's something about a man who can talk with confidence about men's fashion!


----------



## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

sushichick said:


> . . . Anyway, I'll definitely let you know what I come up with. And Dopey and Manton - you two are adorable...there's something about a man who can talk with confidence about men's fashion!


Sushichick:
Thanks for the compliment, but if you enjoyed how manton and I talked about clothes, get a copy of manton's book and see how he writes about them.

And if you men talking about clothes with confidence adorable, you haven't seen anything yet. Manton's phone will be ringing off the hook after you read his book.

if you decide not to fall madly in love with manton after reading his book, you can proudly tell your boyfriend that his personal style-consultant not only is a published author on the topic, but also has served as a speech-writer for a media mogul, an American President and New York City's mayor.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

manton said:


> It's not an extender tab. By "extension" I mean that the waistband in front extends past the fly. There is a 3" or so overlap. This is standard on all non-belted trousers.


You know, it's always bothered me that Martin Greenfield leaves the waistband-extension tab off the front of his Brooks Brothers "Golden Fleece" suit trousers. As I always wear my GF suits with braces, I feel the trouser/waistband front looks unfinished without that buttoned tab. Usually I try to tie my tie long enough to cover up the area of the missing tab when the GF suit is single-breasted. On my DB GF suits it doesn't bother me as much since the buttoned-up coat normally hides the trouser waist completely from view anyway.

By the way, while all the brace-tab byplay has been interesting, I'm suprised that nobody has raised a question about the advisability of chocolate-brown as a color for the suit, or the decision to wear said brown suit to a wedding.

With all due respect, I would suggest that the best business suit for wear to even a relatively informal daytime wedding would be something in solid navy or perhaps a simple one-color navy chalk- or pinstripe (all in 100% worsted wool, of course), teamed with well-polished black lace-up oxford shoes (preferably plain captoes), plain black over-the-calf socks, a white-linen or cotton pocket square, and a crisply starched white double-cuffed shirt accessorized with silver or gold-toned double-sided cufflinks and a fairly plain yet elegant tie in perhaps a grayish or silvery hue (a black-and-white small houndstooth pattern would work well). I favor this type of rig myself for most weddings, and find that the perfect braces to keep my trousers flying proudly (and legally!) at full mast are a pair of prized Albert Thurston classics in the gray-woolen boxcloth with creamy-white "goat & gut" ends.


----------

