# Norfolk Jackets...too outdated?



## Marcellionheart (Mar 10, 2010)

Being a gigantic fan of tweed I was thinking of having Bookster commission me a Norfolk Jacket. I was wondering, though, if such a jacket would look a little bit too over the top, though. I won't be hunting in it and I'll be in a city, but I routinely carry off tweed in the city and the occupation to do so (I'm a history teacher). I could certainly use its warmth in the Canadian winter I'll be experiencing. I'm also very skinny and am not sure if the boxy cut will suit my body type (though I do love my Barbour jacket).

Has it become costume or can I bring it back into fashion? Or will anyone actually notice that it's not a normal tweed jacket?


----------



## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

You mean one of these?









I remember seeing the Bernard Matthews 'Bootiful' adverts in the 80s.

About 3 years ago I spent about six months working in the Norfolk area, namely Thetford, Norwich and Kings Lynn. I can't remember anyone wearing such an outfit at all. Perhaps it is too old fashioned.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

No, it's not. It's just another design option for an odd jacket.

That you're slim suggests it may be even more becoming. And as to others' thoughts, there are many that consider anything beyond a t-shirt, jeans and flip-flops overdressing. You set your own standards.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

My own off-the-cuff take is, yeah, they're a tad costume-y.

Also a bit boxy. There are much better cuts out there for tweed odd jackets, IMHO.


----------



## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Marcellionheart said:


> Being a gigantic fan of tweed I was thinking of having Bookster commission me a Norfolk Jacket.


I think you'd be commisioning them and not the other way around, but whatever, no, they're not dated, bizarro maybe, but in a good, bizarre way. I wear them in corduroy and tweed. Go for it.


----------



## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Do, please, commission one! I love Norfolks--I have one I secured from tonylumpkin on the Thrift Exchange--and don't think that they're too costumey at all. Havuing said that, I think with items such as Norfolks attitude is everything; if you wear it as what it is--another tweed jacket--it'll be fine, but if you feel self-concious in it this *will* make it seem costumey to others.


----------



## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Ok despite my 'Bernard Matthews' and 'old fashioned' comments earlier. I could see myself wearing something like this...
...while walking around the neighbourhood here in Xiaoshan disrict, Hangzhou this coming autumn and winter. IMO it looks very stylish, and not costumey at all.


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Since when do Norfolks have to be boxy? Darts+belted=waist suppression. It should have a rustic drapey-ness to it, but shapelessness is hardly the idea.
https://img145.imageshack.us/i/shooteruplandih0.jpg/


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Norfolk jackets are one of those old fashioned things that LOOK great to me, but I can't imagine myself carrying off. I hope it works out for you though.


----------



## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

Personally, I think it looks a little strange out of context - kind of like tromping about in hunter's orange and camo - which I suppose is certainly done, just like big quilted jackets are common these days.

I suppose since it's a largely abandoned jacket in the popular imagination, most people wouldn't even bat an eye. It doesn't look as sporting as the aforementioned camo - so I doubt people who aren't familiar with the Norfolk (which is, likely 99.9% of people who will see you) would even make the connection.

However, I wouldn't rate the Norfolk as a "warm winter coat". You can have quilted lining et cetera in it - but it's not a _winter coat._ I certainly wouldn't pit it against any of the colder days we get here in scenic, slightly more southern, Michigan unless being outdoors was merely a quaint formality.


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

amplifiedheat said:


> Since when do Norfolks have to be boxy? Darts+belted=waist suppression. It should have a rustic drapey-ness to it, but shapelessness is hardly the idea.
> https://img145.imageshack.us/i/shooteruplandih0.jpg/


Where are the darts? I don't see them. Would they be hidden beneath the sewn-on vertical strips of fabric?


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

To my eye, the Norfolk design is a classic, deserving of a place in every man's wardrobe. However, as alluded by several earlier posters, it is not a design for the faint of heart. People will notice your choice of attire and will comment but, in most every case you will be receiving compliments, not criticisms! Buy yourself a Norfolk jacket; wear it and enjoy it. :thumbs-up:


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

Not very good images, but this pre buy out buy back J. Peterman jacket looks like a repro of the style the man on the left is wearing in the drawing. Ticket pocket flap going over the belt and all.

I was heavily overheating so it needed to be unbuttoned. I crashed a ball, hence no tails on me.


----------



## Centaur (Feb 2, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> Ok despite my 'Bernard Matthews' and 'old fashioned' comments earlier. I could see myself wearing something like this...
> ...while walking around the neighbourhood here in Xiaoshan disrict, Hangzhou this coming autumn and winter. IMO it looks very stylish, and not costumey at all.


Damn - that's made me want to buy one too.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

MikeDT said:


> You mean one of these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But his jacket is fine.

It's those breeches that are looking doofus!!


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Sure. I'd be inclined to pick a more subdued pattern, though, then the large-scale check shown in this thread. The jacket will be quite striking by virtue of its cut, and adding a large estate-style check might tip it over into costume.

Also, ditto what amplifiedheat said regarding shape. The current marketers have convinced many men that the choice is between "slim" and boxy/shapeless. You can have a _lot_ of shape to a garment that drapes.


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> But his jacket is fine.
> 
> It's those breeches that are looking doofus!!


One of the many things I learned in my theater days: Breeches=massive comfort/freedom of movement/style.


----------



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Marcellionheart said:


> Being a gigantic fan of tweed I was thinking of having Bookster commission me a Norfolk Jacket. I was wondering, though, if such a jacket would look a little bit too over the top, ...?


 https://askandyaboutclothes.com/ADVS/Andy'sProductREVIEWS.html#Matt_Deckard

It would be a wonderful tribute to the original sport jacket. See the history in the Sport Jacket Chapter of *The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes*!


----------



## Marcellionheart (Mar 10, 2010)

Thanks for everyone's input! 

Peak and Pine: Yes, you're completely right! I'm in a foreign country right now and thinking in their language rather than English, so I'm getting word orders confused occasionally!

Andy, that is a wonderful jacket you've got there! Slightly different style than I envisioned as it only has a half belt. I'd love to see more pictures if anyone's already got a Norfolk.

Centaur, Mike: That's the design from Bookster I'm currently oggling. I've still to pick up my last order from them and I already want more tweed! Gah.

I was thinking of this herringbone pattern rather than a check pattern in order to 'tame' the hunting associations: I'm also thinking of a four button cut as it would be more traditional than the now modern 3 button. Is that also going to look really out of place?


----------



## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Several Italian designers are going to be offering Norfolks this fall (fall in the clothing business starts in about a week). I doubt anyone will blink an eye provided you don't wear plus fours with them.


----------



## john dozier (Jun 28, 2010)

Norfolk=style, not fashion. Hear Hear Bravo Bravo


----------



## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Marcellionheart said:


> Thanks for everyone's input!
> 
> Peak and Pine: Yes, you're completely right! I'm in a foreign country right now and thinking in their language rather than English, so I'm getting word orders confused occasionally!
> 
> ...


I like the coloring of that h'bone tweed, but IIRC it's one of Bookster's heavier cloths, which may mean it won't be all that drapey. Their thicker tweeds seem like they could be used to make jackets that will practically stand up by themselves.

FWIW, I suspect it may be a mistake to expect really soft tailoring out of Bookster at any rate.


----------



## chrstc (Jun 11, 2007)

Hello,

You might find this thread interesting and helpful-it was something of a sensation here at the time:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?97037

Chris.


----------



## London380sl (Apr 17, 2009)

Marcellionheart said:


> I could certainly use its warmth in the Canadian winter I'll be experiencing.


Where about's in Canada are you going to be teaching? That jacket might work in Vancouver in winter but you'll be freezing your skinny ass in Montreal with it. Also, that looks, at least to me, to be a outdoor type of jacket and it would look a little odd in the classroom. I'd stick with a tweed blazer - more versatile.


----------



## Marcellionheart (Mar 10, 2010)

London380sl said:


> Where about's in Canada are you going to be teaching? That jacket might work in Vancouver in winter but you'll be freezing your skinny ass in Montreal with it. Also, that looks, at least to me, to be a outdoor type of jacket and it would look a little odd in the classroom. I'd stick with a tweed blazer - more versatile.


I'm going to be in my hometown of Toronto. I plan on wearing an overcoat over it anyway and don't usually wear my jacket in class because I get too much chalk dust on it otherwise. I've got a lot of tweed jackets now anyway, so I was looking for something a little different.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

One additional thought: if you have the belt modified so that it need not be buckled at all times - say, by having it button back against the sides - then I think it would be a little less conspicuous and could be carried off as simply an interesting sport coat. It's really the buckle in the front, right at the belly button, that might jump out to the average viewer.


----------



## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

Marcellionheart said:


> Being a gigantic fan of tweed I was thinking of having Bookster commission me a Norfolk Jacket. I was wondering, though, if such a jacket would look a little bit too over the top, though. I won't be hunting in it and I'll be in a city, but I routinely carry off tweed in the city and the occupation to do so (I'm a history teacher). I could certainly use its warmth in the Canadian winter I'll be experiencing. I'm also very skinny and am not sure if the boxy cut will suit my body type (though I do love my Barbour jacket).
> 
> Has it become costume or can I bring it back into fashion? Or will anyone actually notice that it's not a normal tweed jacket?


There is a danger of it becoming costume but I would suspect that in a rural location one cold get away with it - especially if well established in your post. Some may scoff but go for it if you are comfirtable with that slight risk.


----------



## 3holic (Mar 6, 2008)

I think they look good on gentlemen of certain age.


----------



## Mattdeckard (Mar 11, 2004)

I think the Norfolk is fine as long as we remember that it's a hunting jacket for maneuvering and even at times crawling. Any extra structure like built up shoulders I think just gets in the way.


----------



## Guest (Jul 9, 2010)

Marcellionheart said:


> I won't be hunting in it and I'll be in a city, but I routinely carry off tweed in the city and the occupation to do so (I'm a history teacher). I could certainly use its warmth in the Canadian winter I'll be experiencing.


Well I'm currently wearing a Bookster 3 piece tweed suit at an investment bank in London so I would've thought a history teacher could get away with a Norfolk jacket. If you are going to wear it in London, my experience would suggest that people won't take a blind bit of notice.

Matt


----------



## Marcellionheart (Mar 10, 2010)

Matt, thanks for the encouragement...but how can you wear a three piece tweed suit in this heat?!


----------



## Guest (Jul 11, 2010)

Marcellionheart said:


> Matt, thanks for the encouragement...but how can you wear a three piece tweed suit in this heat?!


Heavy air conditioning! Especially on the train when its usually too cold for just a shirt.

And its a light weight tweed, so its not any warmer than a normal wool suit anyway.

Matt


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Tweed is great looking stuff, but I'd hesitate to wear it in any temps warmer than winter or cool autumn. The reason is that even if they invented tweed that breathed like linen, it would still LOOK too warm and make me feel really out of place.


----------



## gordgekko (Nov 12, 2004)

3holic said:


> I think they look good on gentlemen of certain age.


I must concur.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Having reached that age, I would love to have several sets of tweed but here in SoCal even light tweed is too warm for more than (at most) two or three months a year. I have one that I keep just for those rare days when it never gets above 40 degrees. Bookster does carry a tweed looking 340 gr. fabric but it's actually worsted. That may be what I have to use.


----------



## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

sitting in a coffee place in a heritage building recently and I guy strode in followed by a dozen tourists. He started regaling them with a story about a hold up that took place there in the 1940s. It was a 'crimes and ghosts' history walk. 
He was wearing a Norfolk. For effect. just sayin'
But I agree it's a lot how u wear it.


----------



## BillShaine (Aug 24, 2011)

I wear my Norfolks and half Norfolks regularly and receive compliments on them from people who have no idea what they are. A full Norfolk may be a bit much for a classroom, but great for a fall weekend. I need to carry items in my pockets which just look stuffed in a regular jacket. A half Norfolk just looks like a jacket with some extra style. There are a fair number of off the rack half Norfolk style jackets out for this and last fall. A Norfolk that fits you well will look great on you. One that fits poorly will look bad.


----------



## Bottom Button Done Up (Aug 13, 2011)

MikeDT said:


> Ok despite my 'Bernard Matthews' and 'old fashioned' comments earlier. I could see myself wearing something like this...
> ...while walking around the neighbourhood here in Xiaoshan disrict, Hangzhou this coming autumn and winter. IMO it looks very stylish, and not costumey at all.


I've always wondered what that extended bit on the left lapel is for; is it so one can wear a carnation and a brooch?


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Bottom Button Done Up said:


> I've always wondered what that extended bit on the left lapel is for; is it so one can wear a carnation and a brooch?


To be able to close the collar by folding the lapels together and button it with a button under the opposite lapel for colder or windy days.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Oldsarge said:


> Having reached that age, I would love to have several sets of tweed but here in SoCal even light tweed is too warm for more than (at most) two or three months a year. I have one that I keep just for those rare days when it never gets above 40 degrees. Bookster does carry a tweed looking 340 gr. fabric but it's actually worsted. That may be what I have to use.


Sarge, I know it's warmer up in Lakewood than where I am, but I find I can wear 12-ounce tweed jackets with perfect comfort on all cooler days (say, 68 and below) from November through June. I was even wearing my 15-ounce Harris tweed while walking the dog at night as recently as last month. Any idea what the fabric weight of the one you wear on the 40 and below days is--20 ounces?

On the more general matter of Norfolk jackets, I tend to think they look awfully costume-y, at least here in the States. Way too, "Pip, pip, Old England" for my tastes.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I really don't have a clue. It was one I bought on sale from Orvis and is pretty stout. I'm sure that there is a way to find out using calipers or something but I don't know what it may be. Of course, part of that may be personal.  I deal with cold much better than I do with heat. I think the stork miss-read my bundle and delivered me to Los Angeles when it should have gone to Port Angeles.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

JLibourel said:


> On the more general matter of Norfolk jackets, I tend to think they look awfully costume-y, at least here in the States. Way too, "Pip, pip, Old England" for my tastes.


To be honest, I agree with you in the matter of the full Norfolk jacket. I've thrown away the belts on every safari jacket I ever owned because they are a nuisance and provide no real use. If the 'half Norfolk' implies a half belt across the back and an unencumbered front, then that I would find perfectly wearable, provided the weather was sufficiently overcast and cool. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

MikeDT said:


> Ok despite my 'Bernard Matthews' and 'old fashioned' comments earlier. I could see myself wearing something like this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh an old post of mine.



Bottom Button Done Up said:


> I've always wondered what that extended bit on the left lapel is for; is it so one can wear a carnation and a brooch?


It would be an interesting and very unique jacket for me to be wearing in *Xilinhot, Inner Mongolia.*


----------



## budrichard (Apr 3, 2008)

"I've thrown away the belts on every safari jacket I ever owned because they are a nuisance and provide no real use."

There are Safari jackets that use an elastic gathering at the sides to dispense with the god awful belt. 
G&W used to make one called the Hemingway. 
I have a Beretta, made in Italy, that is tailored that way. 
Sadly, these jackets are no longer available.
The Beretta is the finest Safari jacket i own or have ever had in my hands. The current offering is back to classic belt and who knows where made.
worth looking for a Safari jacket constructed that way.-Dick


----------



## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

budrichard said:


> "I've thrown away the belts on every safari jacket I ever owned because they are a nuisance and provide no real use."
> 
> There are Safari jackets that use an elastic gathering at the sides to dispense with the god awful belt.
> G&W used to make one called the Hemingway.
> ...


Elastic? I'd take a full belt any day over that. But a safari jacket with a half belt would be great. Roger Moore wore a safari shirt with a belted back in The Man With The Golden Gun.


----------



## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Matt S said:


> Elastic? I'd take a full belt any day over that. But a safari jacket with a half belt would be great. Roger Moore wore a safari shirt with a belted back in The Man With The Golden Gun.


That was 1974 though, wouldn't surprise me if that garment was pure polyester as well.


----------



## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

MikeDT said:


> That was 1974 though, wouldn't surprise me if that garment was pure polyester as well.


Nope. Linen, according to the maker, Frank Foster. Roger Moore really didn't wear polyester, I don't know where people get that idea. He wore a lot of silk, which looks better but wears just as hot.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Norfolk is a little much for me. I might wear sport coat with a half-belt back though.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

If I were of sufficient income, I would have a good number of tweed jackets for October through March wear and they would probably _all_ have half belts and patch pockets. A couple would have recoil pads on the right shoulder.


----------



## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> Oh an old post of mine.


A bit off topic, but check out the sleeves on that jacket. Is that normal for them to flare out like that?

To answer the OP: go for it. If you think you can pull it off, do so. I'm sure it won't appear costume-y in the least. You're definitely in the right vocation for it. And given you have worn tweed in the past, it's like you've been building towards it all your life. Come to think of it, I would be disappointed if you didn't get one.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Many British coats have flared sleeves along with a nipped waist and slightly flared skirt. These details were particularly exaggerated in the '70s.


----------



## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

I see. Thanks for the clarification. Always wondered that...


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Bottom Button Done Up said:


> I've always wondered what that extended bit on the left lapel is for; is it so one can wear a carnation and a brooch?





arkirshner said:


> To be able to close the collar by folding the lapels together and button it with a button under the opposite lapel for colder or windy days.


.....and referred to as a Throat Latch, as I recall!


----------



## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Matt S said:


> Nope. Linen, according to the maker, Frank Foster. Roger Moore really didn't wear polyester, *I don't know where people get that idea.* He wore a lot of silk, which looks better but wears just as hot.


Because most of his Bond movies where made in the 1970s?


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes but men of taste, even from the '70s, know that natural fibres are where it's at.


----------



## Marcellionheart (Mar 10, 2010)

Still haven't decided whether I want one or not. I have ordered some jackets in the interim and am hoping to dial in my fit more with them before considering it. I'm still awfully tempted to pull the trigger for the next one.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^ 
Given the reservations that seem to continue to haunt you regarding the visual impact of a full blown Norfolk Jacket design, should you choose to wear such, perhaps a more conventional shooting jacket design without the load bearing straps and belt associated with a Norfolk jacket would be a more comfortable fit for your psyche? Lord knows, we have all purchased items that seemed to be 'must haves' at the time of purchase, but were in fact destined to become closet queens, in our respective collections!


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Lord knows, we have all purchased items that seemed to be 'must haves' at the time of purchase, but were in fact destined to become closet queens, in our respective collections!


I _don't_ want to talk about it!

But that is excellent advice. And a tweed jacket with the half-belt, bi-swing shoulders and patch pockets would be quite as functional should one ever have a real need to bring down a brace of driven pheasant for tea. At the same time, the vast majority of your colleagues and compatriots would be blissfully unaware of it's history and official use. If my accounts payable weren't already spoken for clear into January or February, I'd be thinking of getting one myself.


----------



## Marcellionheart (Mar 10, 2010)

A bit of an update. I'm finally going to pull the trigger on one of these bad boys having received my latest acquisition from them last week. Just need to decide on the fabric now.

I'm deciding between:

























All relatively heavy fabrics, none of which replicated anything near what I have in my existing wardrobe. Thoughts?


----------



## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

#1 is bold!

Edit: I mean that in a good way.

:icon_hailthee:


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

the last would be most to my taste but if it's a Norfolk Shooting Jacket you're aiming for, #1 is named 'guncheck' and would be, IMO, the most appropriate.


----------



## shoemaker (Apr 2, 2008)

Being from Norfolk,
Second cloth, would be BOOTIFUL !!


----------



## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

I second no 2.....


----------



## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

Marcellionheart said:


> Being a gigantic fan of tweed I was thinking of having Bookster commission me a Norfolk Jacket. I was wondering, though, if such a jacket would look a little bit too over the top, though.


In the U.S., it would be over-the-top. I have no idea how it would be received in the UK, though.


----------



## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

Epaminondas said:


> In the U.S., it would be over-the-top.


I beg to differ. I've had a Norfolk jacket as part of my wardrobe, some belted in-front, some only belted in-back, for over 40 years.
Granted, I live now in Mexico, but they have always received compliments from the ladies on my travels.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

A half-belted Norfolk would never be considered over-the-top in the U.S. unless one only habituated the most fashion forward of locations. Classic, absolutely classic.


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

https://www.muffyaldrich.com/2011/10/ralph-laurens-best-campaign.html


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Okay, Ralph can bring back both all those clothes and models who look just like that any time he feels like it. Such a campaign would make me seriously consider buying OTR again instead of insisting that every thing but my Levi's and sweaters be MTM if not bespoke!


----------



## Marcellionheart (Mar 10, 2010)

I went with the check. Will post final update pics when it arrives in a few months.


----------



## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

We await them with 'bated breath.


----------



## SamuelA (Nov 21, 2011)

I have a brand new Supasax Bladen Norfolk with a gold lining made which I've just inherited. I just hope someone else wants it as it doesn't fit me (too big) but WOW it's beautiful. I'd recommend a quality one, with a waist cut to fit, to anyone as casual autumn or winter wear in the city. I can see them coming back into fashion in a big way.


----------

