# St. Johns Bay



## Jarvin (Jun 14, 2012)

What is your opinion on the JCPenney clothing brand know as St. John's Bay?

Somebody on StyleForum stated:



> I've never tried on a St. John's Bay piece of clothing, but whenever I chance to walk through JCP they always strike me as very "grandfatherly" type clothing. Not in a good way either.





> I try NOT to have thoughts about it. It's got nothing to do with the lower-end price point OR that it is at JCP, but it is dull, uninspired design with crappy materials shooting for a consumer who simply doesn't care how he dresses... but just needs SOMETHING that will work because he hates shopping.


Agree or disagree?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Jarvin said:


> What is your opinion on the JCPenney clothing brand know as St. John's Bay?
> 
> https://www.styleforum.net/t/96461/st-johns-bayAgree or disagree?


First thought: Poor man's (or woman's) Lands End.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

Up until reading this I thought it was a WalMart house 'brand'. Probably tells you all you need to know...

BTW, focus group participants usually get paid...


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

*Has kind of an ageist cast, doesnt it?*

I am not certain how one brand of polos is conceptually different from another, but here goes...

I've been using polos from Penney since I worked my way back up to the curb. They used to be OK quality for cut rate, but this season they are not as nice as they used to be and I don't intend to get any more. They do not feel as good, the lapels fly away, and the sleeve opening tend to get rather loose looking. The Claiborne polos still feel nice but the lapels also want to fly away.

I used to go there occasionally to post something conventionally correct. It's like kicking over an anthill.


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## lbv2k (Feb 16, 2010)

Jarvin said:


> What is your opinion on the JCPenney clothing brand know as St. John's Bay?
> 
> https://www.styleforum.net/t/96461/st-johns-bayAgree or disagree?


My wife used to buy that brand. All I can tell you is that it is nothing but crap.


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## CdnTrad (May 27, 2012)

I bought a St John's Bay unstructured sports jacket a few years ago on impulse and immediately regretted it. It went to goodwill ASAP.


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## herfitup (Mar 4, 2012)

I never bought their polos but their pants are cheap imitations of Lands End. Don't expect more than a year or two out of them.

Lands End (pants) or Nautica (inexpensive polos) are much better for about the same money.


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## upthewazzu (Nov 3, 2011)

I bought a couple long sleeve polos a few years back and they lasted about 2 years before they were unwearable. Will not buy again.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

As a very wise fellow recently observed, in response to a thread addressing men wearing the color pink, I find myself really disturbed by threads like this. As so many of us offer commentary that seemingly criticises the clothing offered at Pennys and Walmart we also appear to degrade those choosing to shop for their clothing needs at J C Penny, Walmart, etc., and we come off sounding like a group of sophomoric, pompous a**es. The reality is that many of those shopping at such stores, do so because that is where they can afford to shop! Indeed, the items they buy may not wear as comfortably or prove as durable as upscale versions of the same, but if they fit the wearer and are clean and properly maintained, who are we to criticize? The fashion police, perhaps!


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> As a very wise fellow recently observed, in response to a thread addressing men wearing the color pink, I find myself really disturbed by threads like this. As so many of us offer commentary that seemingly criticises the clothing offered at Pennys and Walmart we also appear to degrade those choosing to shop for their clothing needs at J C Penny, Walmart, etc., and we come off sounding like a group of sophomoric, pompous a**es. The reality is that many of those shopping at such stores, do so because that is where they can afford to shop! Indeed, the items they buy may not wear as comfortably or prove as durable as upscale versions of the same, but if they fit the wearer and are clean and properly maintained, who are we to criticize? The fashion police, perhaps!


I generally agree with that observation, however, I'm not sure anyone thus far has actually made commentary on the consumer here. If someone is on a budget, I almost always recommend the Merona brand at Target - affordable, classic, basics in the American style and some reasonable quality. It's clear that Target actually stop and think a little about the ranges they put together. JCP and many others would do well to do the same.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
At this point in the thread, I agree with your conclusion, but give it time...the conversation will devolve, as it seems to have done in the past. (Heavy sigh!) The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior! 

PS: I do hope the membership proves me wrong, on this one!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Jarvin said:


> What is your opinion on the JCPenney clothing brand know as St. John's Bay?
> 
> Somebody on StyleForum stated:
> 
> Agree or disagree?


About a dozen years ago, the quality of JCP clothing fell off a cliff and has continued to plummet. I've ignored it for a long time. Prior to that time JCP was a go-to source of mine for some basics like cotton/poly PJ's. They are an example of what I consider a basic utilitarian item that I would not spend significant amounts of money for. They simply had to fit, be comfortable, not too ugly and not shred upon laundering. JCP's PJ's used to routinely exceed my expectations. Now they fail them all.

If I find something at an inexpensive store that works for my needs, I have no problem buying it. A recent example being socks at Target. They happily share space with my indulgences from Scott Nichol.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

arkirshner said:


> First thought: Poor man's (or woman's) Lands End.


That remains a slight against LE, since the styles offered from each are quite different.

The exceptions:

The sole SJB-_designed_ item I have is a tartan shirt from some years ago. It was a rare attractive pattern, but it only gets worn in the fall.

Otherwise, the madras shirts they acquired a year ago are the only things I have, and they were certainly value for money at less then $10 a pop. They had more patterns available at one time than any other brand I could think of. Now they fetch a bit more on eBay.

Those are the only positives I can think of.


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

Jarvin said:


> What is your opinion on the JCPenney clothing brand know as St. John's Bay?


Inexpensive basics, but not particularly durable.


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## alkydrinker (Apr 24, 2012)

The few times I remember trying on any St Johns Bay the cut was always terrible as well. Total crap.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Fair enough, but there are exceptions. Perhaps four or five years back, Penny's offered stout vintage cloth versions of their St John's Bay chinos for, as I recall, $14.95 a pair. In a quest to find a good pair of cheap chinos I picked up a couple pair. After all this time, a lot of hard wear and countless launderings, I'm still wearing those chinos. Pretty reasonable value, methinks!


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Sorry I'm late! I have several pairs of St. John's Bay chinos and really like them. They wrinkle a lot less than Lands' End and come out of the wash ready to wear.

I bought several pair for golf and tend to wear them casually too.

But then I've never tried a pair of Bill's that I liked!!


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Andy said:


> Sorry I'm late! I have several pairs of St. John's Bay chinos and really like them. They wrinkle a lot less than Lands' End and come out of the wash ready to wear.
> 
> I bought several pair for golf and tend to wear them casually too.
> 
> But then I've never tried a pair of Bill's that I liked!!


With your permission may I revise my initial comment (#2 of this thread) : On second thought, a rich man's Lands End.

Regards,

Alan


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

Jarvin said:


> What is your opinion on the JCPenney clothing brand know as St. John's Bay?
> 
> Somebody on StyleForum stated:
> 
> Agree or disagree?


Disagree. Over the years I have purchased many well constructed, reasonably priced, all-cotton items from JCPenny under the St John's Bay name. However, I don't feel that I'm making much of a contribution to this thread by telling you this because if you were to go to Pennys and view the present St John's Bay merchandise it is vastly different from what it once was. You may not even find St John's Bay at JCPenny soon because it may be one of the many house brands slated to be discontinued as they restructure their marketing.

At present St John's Bay and Land's End seem to be at the same level, competing for the same customer with merchandise coming from the lowest priced vendor.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

I disagree, blue suede shoes. The vast majority of LE stuff is far better than that of JCP. LE may not be at the level of the products sold by O'Connell's, but it is much better than items described by other posters in this thread as "crap."


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

roman totale XVII said:


> If someone is on a budget, I almost always recommend the Merona brand at Target - affordable, classic, basics in the American style and some reasonable quality.


Interesting. At the Target near me, all the Merona stuff is very hipster-ish and trendy.

I also agree that those of us who are fortunate enough not to have to settle for the lower tiers of clothing should be careful to confine our criticism to the clothing, and not to those economically required to wear it. It's one thing to like to drink Grand Cru burgundies, it's another to think anybody drinking a $10 bottle of wine is perforce a cretin. (One thing is having excellent taste, the other is being a snob.)


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

blue suede shoes said:


> You may not even find St John's Bay at JCPenny soon because it may be one of the many house brands slated to be discontinued as they restructure their marketing.


Being a house brand, it's likely to survive. It's AL and JOE that are among the brands on their way out.



Tiger said:


> I disagree, blue suede shoes. The vast majority of LE stuff is far better than that of JCP. LE may not be at the level of the products sold by O'Connell's, but it is much better than items described by other posters in this thread as "crap."


Without a doubt. LE attempt to undersell other preppy/trad brands like LLB, Orvis, PRL, and J Crew with similar style merchandise. While there have been drawbacks in some areas, this overall has remained true of LE. On the other hand, SJB generally offers more basic and mediocre styles; sometimes veering towards the urban. SJB may not fall apart after one wash like Walmart's house brands or Blair, but it's not stylish on the whole.

At risk of being on the wrong side of Andy, I feel SJB chinos are not on par with LE, or even the Izod versions on nearby JCP racks. They don't feel substantial to me, and I believe there was more give to their seams than those nearby Izod chinos the last time I looked them over. I have also seen plenty of SJB items (including chinos) filter down to salvage off-price shops to sell NWT for $3-6 a piece, and I still pass.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

eagle2250 said:


> As a very wise fellow recently observed, in response to a thread addressing men wearing the color pink, I find myself really disturbed by threads like this. As so many of us offer commentary that seemingly criticises the clothing offered at Pennys and Walmart we also appear to degrade those choosing to shop for their clothing needs at J C Penny, Walmart, etc., and we come off sounding like a group of sophomoric, pompous a**es. The reality is that many of those shopping at such stores, do so because that is where they can afford to shop! Indeed, the items they buy may not wear as comfortably or prove as durable as upscale versions of the same, but if they fit the wearer and are clean and properly maintained, who are we to criticize? The fashion police, perhaps!


I second that emotion.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I agree. However, I feel SJB is worthy of criticism based on quality and style, despite my not desiring to start such a thread. 

Generally, I think you should dress as well as your means allow, and I factor in thrift shops too.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

upthewazzu said:


> I bought a couple long sleeve polos a few years back and they lasted about 2 years before they were unwearable. Will not buy again.


I've had some for 5 years. They still look good. Of course I wash them in cold water and hang to dry. Clothes last considerably longer that way.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> Interesting. At the Target near me, all the Merona stuff is very hipster-ish and trendy.


At my local Target for a few hundred bucks you could easily put together a weeks worth of Ivy/ natural shoulder outfits using the Merona brand..

Unstructured cotton jackets in khaki & navy
Straight leg chinos in khaki, British khaki, stone and navy
Handful of button downs in plain colors as well as uni stripe, gingham & plaid/ madras
Half a dozen of the famous Targyles
Throw in a pair of weejuns and a pair of bucks/ desert boots (maybe not from Target - I've not looked at footwear) and you're good to go, especially if you drop another $50 or so and get the chinos tapered and maybe the jackets tightend.

Not the greatest or most long-lived wardrobe and some of the details are 'wrong' (jackets are darted), but you will look better than most people.


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## jankdc (Jul 7, 2012)

I just went to Penny's to look at dress shirts and was disappointed. I have had a few of the Stafford Shirts over the years and they were decent buys. I still wear one sometimes that I bought 12 years ago. The quality of the new shirts have really gone down.


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