# "Real" moccasin boots - your thoughts?



## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

In one of her usual "you-dress-like-an-old-man-why-can't-you-dress-like-a-normal-person" rants, my wife (who I absolutely love) made some casual footwear suggestions that honestly have me a bit curious.

She directed me to the J. Crew website because she had seen some "boots that looked like socks," and pointed out the Russell Moccasin Thula Thula boots, the Quoddy ring boots and the weird (IMO) Quoddy Grizzly boots with the last being her favorite. Her arguments were that they were made in USA out of quality, natural materials and had "traditional" styling. I don't know if I agree with that last one, but at least she's accepted my criteria as pre-requisites for clothing suggestions.

Back to the boots. Though my first instinct is, "those are for pachouli-soaked hippies," I do have all the standard "moccasinesque" trad casual shoes: Bean Bluchers, Timberland 3-eye lug sole boat shoes, Thorogood crepe-sole moc-toe work boots, Filson uplanders etc. etc., not to mention a whole mess of boat shoes and penny loafers. Is it really that far a step to substitute a thin (or thick, in some cases) rubber sole for an extra thick layer of soft leather? I'm not a fan of the crepe sole on the Grizzly boots, so that's out.

If I do go for a pair of "real" moccasins, it wouldn't be from Quoddy or Russell, but from the much more affordable Arrow Moccasin Company. They'd be for weekend wear with jeans and a shetland or a norwegian with an OCBD or flannel beneath.

So what say you? Trad or... just bad?


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

My sense of personal aesthetics finds all those boots really ugly. One of the things (maybe THE thing) I like most about sticking to a "trad" wardrobe is that I can avoid getting mired in confusing choices among weird hybrid products as you've posted here. Instead, my "trad" sensibility kicks into gear and I "default" to the typical list: Here a boat shoe or camp moc.

Or you could friggin' man up and just get some damn red wing classic boots, if it's boots ya need.

A woman is not always right. Don't tell mine I said that.


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## charlie500 (Aug 22, 2008)

Bad.

See if you can sell her on these Gokeys


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

Not for wear outside the home or yard. IMO. Maybe traditional if you are a native american or the already mentioned hippy.


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

Arrow mocs are awesome and extremely comfy, and being made by fhe same family in connecticut for fifty years qualifies them as trad in my book, but they hardly scream "young man" to me. 

How about Clarks desert boots?


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ugly. As in, I can't believe a woman would like them level ugly. Boots mean Red Wings if you don't want to shell out for Aldens and don't want to get western boots. Just my opinion, though.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Joe Beamish said:


> My sense of personal aesthetics finds all those boots really ugly. One of the things (maybe THE thing) I like most about sticking to a "trad" wardrobe is that I can avoid getting mired in confusing choices among weird hybrid products as you've posted here. Instead, my "trad" sensibility kicks into gear and I "default" to the typical list: Here a boat shoe or camp moc.
> 
> Or you could friggin' man up and just get some damn red wing classic boots, if it's boots ya need.
> 
> A woman is not always right. Don't tell mine I said that.


I agree with the point about not being confused if you stick with a trad aesthetic but some items may, in fact, be traditional (maybe not trad, per se) just outside of my knowledge base because of age, geographic location etc. For example, someone's personal aesthetic might make them cringe at the idea of a Maine Hunting Shoe because they're a) from the south b) too young c) have never been exposed to the hunting culture, but the fact remains, it's pretty darn trad. I just thought maybe this was one of those instances.

As far as the Red Wing boots go, I'm totally covered for field/jobsite/work boots. I think Thorogoods are a better deal than Red Wings, but now that you've brought it up, my wife did suggest these Red Wings which I'm less confused about, but not so interested in.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

It's a mistake to consult women about mens clothing: consider the superficiality of your own views of of women's clothing. In this case of possibly unsolicited advice, you should put it immediately out of your mind, and if need be placate her with one of her more suitable suggestions. I believe the following conversation has taken place in my house:

She: You dress like an old man.

Me: I'm 63

She: But you've _always_ dressed like an old man.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> Ugly. As in, I can't believe a woman would like them level ugly. Boots mean Red Wings if you don't want to shell out for Aldens and don't want to get western boots. Just my opinion, though.


 My wife is a card-carrying member of the Ugg Brigade so....yeah.

I see a lot of endorsements for Red Wings. Not that it bothers me, but I don't see how they're an alternative to the moccasins in question.  Personally, I find Red Wings to be much like Quoddy. A lot of hype, high price tag based on "heritage," but plenty of less expensive alternatives without sacrificing quality.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

JakeLA said:


> Arrow mocs are awesome and extremely comfy, and being made by fhe same family in connecticut for fifty years qualifies them as trad in my book, but they hardly scream "young man" to me.
> 
> How about Clarks desert boots?


 Sorry I missed this one. Yes, Arrow has been around forever and seem like the kind of company that makes doing the leg-work to find them totally worth it. For reference, these are the mocs I'm contemplating. As for whether or not they're "young man," obviously "I" don't care.

I already own desert boots, but thanks for the suggestion on the Clarks.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Whoa there, buddy. I'm open-minded about less expensive options to Quoddys and Red Wings, but for value they're hard to beat because of the quality. But I don't know if I'd say the same for the J. Crew versions of things. I LOVE the way J. Crew clothing fits and buy it often for exactly that reason, but I'd never mistake any of it for well-made stuff. 

You can pay less for alternatives to red wing and quoddy (and the like), but good luck finding comparable quality doing so.


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## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

Your wife is a hippy. Do not buy those moccasins.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Steve Smith said:


> Your wife is a hippy. Do not buy those moccasins.


"moccasin boots" you mean


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> My wife is a card-carrying member of the Ugg Brigade so....yeah.
> 
> I see a lot of endorsements for Red Wings. Not that it bothers me, but I don't see how they're an alternative to the moccasins in question. Personally, I find Red Wings to be much like Quoddy. A lot of hype, high price tag based on "heritage," but plenty of less expensive alternatives without sacrificing quality.


 I'm just pigeoning red wings out of appearance. I've got little idea as to their quality; I stick with western boots when I need to pull on a pair, which, given the weather here, is mostly when working out at our place or flasking it into a football game.

As for what I'm now thinking you're looking for, perhaps LL Bean Signature's Ranger mocs? Or some pair of chukkas, perhaps Sperry's or Quoddy's versions? Oak Street Bootmakers makes a pair, as well, but I've no idea of the quality (they're certainly celebrated in the blogosphere, whatever that's worth).


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Joe Beamish said:


> Whoa there, buddy. I'm open-minded about less expensive options to Quoddys and Red Wings, but for value they're hard to beat because of the quality. But I don't know if I'd say the same for the J. Crew versions of things. I LOVE the way J. Crew clothing fits and buy it often for exactly that reason, but I'd never mistake any of it for well-made stuff.
> 
> You can pay less for alternatives to red wing and quoddy (and the like), but good luck finding comparable quality doing so.


I'm with you on the J. Crew stuff. The fit is great but I have no illusions that their stuff is quality. I've never (and would never) buy any of the (insert heritage brand here) for J. Crew products just because of the ridiculous mark-ups, though I didn't know they're of lesser quality than the standard line. Thanks for the heads up.

As far as lower priced alternatives to Red Wing and Quoddy, I believe there are some legitimate deals. As I've already mentioned, (made by Weinbrenner) are a very well priced, made in USA boot at a fraction of what Red Wings cost. Here is a pair of Thorogoods made for Duluth Trading Company.

I also think that the aforementioned Arrow Moccasin company is an excellent lower priced alternative to Quoddy. Here's a previous discussion with some close-ups of Arrow products.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

^ Getting western boots next time I'm in austin (my parents retired to the area)


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## Andy Roo (Jan 25, 2007)

Blech. Get a pair of from Bean.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Andy Roo said:


> Blech. Get a pair of from Bean.


I have the Signature blucher version, but thanks for the suggestion.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

hardline, I'm not sure why you posted this thread. You've already got plenty of mocs and boots. 

If you really want a pair of Indian style mocs, just get 'em. Don't ask if they're "trad".


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

You seem to like the Arrow Moccasins, I'd say get those, then.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

but look at Town View


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

If you get those ring booties, you'll have to change your name to "World Rainbow" and learn to say "Oh, wow!" a lot and at random. I thought they looked like 2d rate crap in the '60s, much less now.

Remember that women think things "simply fabulous" today, and "simply hideous" six months from now.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Joe Beamish said:


> hardline, I'm not sure why you posted this thread. You've already got plenty of mocs and boots.
> 
> If you really want a pair of Indian style mocs, just get 'em. Don't ask if they're "trad".


I really just wanted some opinions and possibly some information on the sartorial history of traditional soft-soled moccasins, since they seem to make an appearance, in some form, throughout most of trad-dom. In my OP, I asked if it would really be a stretch to go from a casual moccasin design (boat shoe moc, camp moc, canoe moc, blucher moc etc.) to a traditional (in the strict sense) moccasin, albeit in boot form. I suppose posting the links to the designs my wife selected was probably misleading since I wasn't considering those specifically.

I don't NEED a pair of moccasin boots, or any other boots, for that matter though I welcomed all of the suggestions. Just wanted to know what you all thought and you guys gave me just that. Thanks!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

phyrpowr said:


> If you get those ring booties, you'll have to change your name to "World Rainbow" and learn to say "Oh, wow!" a lot and at random. I thought they looked like 2d rate crap in the '60s, much less now.
> 
> Remember that women think things "simply fabulous" today, and "simply hideous" six months from now.


 Interesting. I wasn't around in the 60's so I didn't know they actually had some cultural connotations besides what my own preconceived notions were. Apparently, they're very big with muzzle-loader hunters and re-enactors as well, which I wasn't aware of either.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

hardline_42 said:


> Apparently, they're very big with muzzle-loader hunters and re-enactors as well, which I wasn't aware of either.


Re-encators perhaps, but I am occasionally out during muzzle loader deer and elk seasons when modern boots are usually worn.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

godan said:


> Re-encators perhaps, but I am occasionally out during muzzle loader deer and elk seasons when modern boots are usually worn.


 Yes, that's true. Typically, I find they fall into two camps: those who take advantage of every season (bow, muzzle-loader and shotgun) and those who go full-on "traditional" with moccasins, leather leggings, racoon hats, etc.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

hardline_42 said:


> *I wasn't around in the 60's* so I didn't know they actually had some cultural connotations besides what my own preconceived notions were.


NOW I understand! And I thought you were just having a little fun with all of us. It never struck me that you really didn't know about hippies and the Grizzly Adams look!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

bd79cc said:


> NOW I understand! And I thought you were just having a little fun with all of us. It never struck me that you really didn't know about hippies and the Grizzly Adams look!


 Yeah, sorry. I actually wasn't born until 1980, and neither of my parents were hippies. And just to show you how ignorant I am of the aforementioned "look," it wasn't until I googled Grizzly Adams that I realized he wasn't a member of the Adam's Family. I think I was imagining Cousin It.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Nothing wrong with those Grizzly boots (L.L. Bean-esque :icon_smile_big, although the Dula Dulas seem a bit busy. 

Not sure about the Ring Boots, although most of the old-school moccasin makers have been offering them for a while now. Trads and hippies actually like some of the same things (pipes, moccasins, patch corduroy, stuff from India), it's just a difference in how they choose to enjoy them. :icon_smile:


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

hardline: if you decided to get these moccasins, could you give us your thoughts on them?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Certainly. But I'll warn you, if I haven't pulled the trigger since 2010 (when this thread was started), it's very unlikely that I will!


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

So you're sayin there's a chance... As a bonus, the link still works.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

I try not to make judgment calls about things that are a matter of taste. But, this thread asks for our thoughts. I don't know whether those boots are considered trad or not. But, they are hideous. I would rather wear wonder bread sacks on my feet. is the purpose just to protect from the elements? Water? Snow? Ice? There are a TON of better looking boots than these. AND, you have to pay $300 for the privilege of having shoes that ugly? No thanks. 

Sorry if I was blunt. The thread asked for our thoughts. If I wanted boots to keep my feet warm, dry, and secure, I would just buy some Vasque hiking boots. If I wanted to look good doing the same thing, I would buy the Alden boots.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I try not to make judgment calls about things that are a matter of taste. But, this thread asks for our thoughts. I don't know whether those boots are considered trad or not. But, they are hideous. I would rather wear wonder bread sacks on my feet. is the purpose just to protect from the elements? Water? Snow? Ice? There are a TON of better looking boots than these. AND, you have to pay $300 for the privilege of having shoes that ugly? No thanks.
> 
> Sorry if I was blunt. The thread asked for our thoughts. If I wanted boots to keep my feet warm, dry, and secure, I would just buy some Vasque hiking boots. If I wanted to look good doing the same thing, I would buy the Alden boots.


Haha, awesome. This thread is four years old. I'm not buying the boots so, rest easy. Also, happy three-thousandth post to me. I'm glad it was on my own, zombified, ugly boot thread.


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

I appreciate the comments, professor, however subjective. Hardline was leaning toward the Arrow lace up boot, which is now ~$180, and not hideous in my judgement. If (for some reason) you wanted short boots or moccasins with a traditional leather sole, that could be worn in public, would there be better options?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> Haha, awesome. This thread is four years old. I'm not buying the boots so, rest easy. Also, happy three-thousandth post to me. I'm glad it was on my own, zombified, ugly boot thread.


...and how about the wife??


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> ...and how about the wife??


Her trad re-education has gone according to plan.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Excellent!!


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## ricardofrancisco (Jan 1, 2013)

When I checked the links, the shoes shown somewhat remind me of the shoes designed by Ronnie Fieg with Sebago.


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## colorvision (Aug 7, 2014)

The Sebago Campsides Chukka is a really nice looking shoe


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## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

Moderately unrelated, but I bought the Arrow canoe moc earlier this summer. It's a beautiful shoe that fits beautifully and comfortably. I highly recommend it!


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