# Horsemeat



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

WHY are the Brits freaking out about eating horsemeat? We buy and eat horsemeat all the time in Sweden. Until recently it was labelled as "hamburger meat", now it's simply labelled horsemeat, it's delicious!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Similarly the notion of eating dog seems to unsettle folk. If you are going to slaughter an animal and consume it then I don't see the difference: dog, cow, horse, pig, it's much of a muchness really.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Exactly.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I agree with both the Earl and Shaver that, from a conceptual perspective, eating horse meat, is essentially no different than eating the cooked carcass of any other critter. However, it does taste radically different than...shall we say beef. Horse meat features a sweeter flavor and perhaps a stringier texture. It's really not bad...just different. Some would like it and some would not!


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

It's a cultural thing. The idea of eating horsemeat disgusts me - I would sooner eat dogmeat.

The issue at hand is slightly more complex, concerning labelling etc, but you will find many people horrified by the idea of eating horse. You may ask Why? My own explanation would not be very logical, probably - in fact I am hard-pressed to put it into words, but probably has a lot to do with having spent a lot of time riding horses and experiencing a certain level of pleasure in riding that has taken away many minor cares and worries, and that being incompatible with a course of action that would involve repaying this animal's faithful service by eating him:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes, I think the main complaint is that the burgers in the UK didn't include horsemeat or other things in the list of ingredients. Well nor did they traditionally in Sweden either, it just used to say "burgermeat".


As for horsemeat, I eat it quite regularly on sandwiches, we buy it in slices in packets in Sweden, just as one buys packets of sliced ham. It is quite bland to be honest because there is almost no fat or sinew in it to give it any real flavour.

The reason I don't eat dog or catmeat is because it isn't available, not because of any qualms about them being pets, so of course I don't have those issues with horsemeat either.

And the reason it isn't available is 1, because apparently it isn't particlarly that good to eat, and 2, cats and dogs aren't farmed. 

Another issue is the level of uneducation the British have always had about what hamburgers are, which explains the ludicrous phenomena of manufacturers for decades marking packets of hamburgers in the UK as beefburgers instead, because they are made of beef, this is due to the British thinking for decades that hamburgers contained ham!!!! Presumably then berliners contain parts of Berlin, frankfurters contain Franks, and hot dogs contain dog.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

You don't put up a very compelling argument for the eating of horse, Ormonde. Personally I avoid all processed meat. Ideally, I would avoid all farmed meat too, but short of veganism or an exclusively game-based diet, that is not possible at the moment.

I've never eaten a burger, and you may be right in drawing attention to the poorly informed views of many Britons concerning their food.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Langham said:


> You don't put up a very compelling argument for the eating of horse, Ormonde.


That's because I wasn't trying to. Just stating the facts. Eat it or don't. Meat is meat. I'd rather eat lamb and pork than horse and beef purely on grounds of taste.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

It's a funny one this. I think the more pertinant question is why do they eat mechanically reclaimed pink slime aka the cheap value-pack supermarket burger. I've never eaten horsemeat and have no real desire to, that cultural taboo thing I suppose. I could not eat dog. I'm generally very selective of the meat I eat. I like to have as clear an understaning as is possible of the animal's provenance. When I make a burger or a lasagne, I mince my own meant. I'm also very selective of where I buy my meat and limit to a few very trustworthy sources. This is all in the context of living in the developed world and having a lifestyle that affords such selectism. That said, I think this story is only going to get bigger. It was the Food Standards Agency in Ireland that indentified the Horemeat and broke this story to the newswires in Ireland on Monday evening. News now comes that the companies involved were buying 'meat additives' from suppliers in Netherlands and Spain. Surely they are supplying the same products to other countries. Only difference being, those other countries probably don't care!


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm quite fond of eating Basashi when I'm in Japan. Basashi is raw, thin sliced horse meat. One eats it like sashimi, dipping it in soy sauce with either garlic or ginger. It's very tasty, but because it's horse many people shy away from it. 

I enjoy riding, and would never consider slaughtering a horse for meat, but understand why people feel the way they feel. My wife likes to eat pork, but when I raised a few hogs to put in the freezer she wanted nothing to do with eating them after she got a look at them on the hoof, alive and well. 

Sadly my wife won't eat any of the game I bring home either. I would gladly alter my diet to only eat animal protien that I'd sourced myself, but she won't have it.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I have no problem eating processed meat in Sweden. Because processed meat in Sweden doesn't contain mases of additives like it does in the UK & I only eat processed meat that comes from Swedish animals and is made in Sweden. A packet of bacon in Sweden contains bacon, water, salt, natural preservative. Now have a look at the horror story list ingredients of a packet of Danepak or Walls or some other brand on sale in the UK.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Supermarket sausages in the UK are indeed a horror story. I think Danepak bacon is from somewhere in Scandinavia (there's a clue in the name).


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> It's a cultural thing. The idea of eating horsemeat disgusts me - I would sooner eat dogmeat.
> 
> The issue at hand is slightly more complex, concerning labelling etc, but you will find many people horrified by the idea of eating horse. You may ask Why? My own explanation would not be very logical, probably - in fact I am hard-pressed to put it into words, but probably has a lot to do with having spent a lot of time riding horses and experiencing a certain level of pleasure in riding that has taken away many minor cares and worries, and that being incompatible with a course of action that would involve repaying this animal's faithful service by eating him:


I don't think that you are expected to eat your own horse! :icon_pale:

I have owned many dogs and while I'd eat dog if it were offered to me I would balk at eating my own pet.

More generally I feel that people should have to personally kill at least one of every type of animal they eat. Seems fair enough to me.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I don't think that you are expected to eat your own horse! :icon_pale:


That is what it would amount to as far as I was concerned, in that wholly hypothetical circumstance.



> More generally I feel that people should have to personally kill at least one of every type of animal they eat. Seems fair enough to me.


I agree - I would extend the commandment to butchering the animal too.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> That is what it would amount to as far as I was concerned, in that wholly hypothetical circumstance.
> 
> I agree - I would extend the commandment to butchering the animal too.


In which case, if we are both ever stranded on a desert island would you mind very much if I ate you? :icon_smile_wink:

+1 on the butchering.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> In which case, if we are both ever stranded on a desert island would you mind very much if I ate you? :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> +1 on the butchering.


 I'm afraid my objection to the eating of horse extends to cannibalism, Shaver, especially in my own case. In any event - assuming you were somehow able to overpower me, perhaps by some cunning subterfuge - you might find my flesh disappointingly tough and sinewy. You would probably have to curry it well.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> I'm afraid my objection to the eating of horse extends to cannibalism, Shaver, especially in my own case. In any event - assuming you were somehow able to overpower me, perhaps by some cunning subterfuge - you might find my flesh disappointingly tough and sinewy. You would probably have to curry it well.


Oh darn it. Looks like were both subsisting indefinitely on the coconuts then.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Langham said:


> Supermarket sausages in the UK are indeed a horror story. I think Danepak bacon is from somewhere in Scandinavia (there's a clue in the name).


Indeed, but one can't equate Danish meat with Swedish. Danish meat is of the same quality/additive level as Brtish meat.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Indeed, but one can't equate Danish meat with Swedish. Danish meat is of the same quality/additive level as Brtish meat.


Are the Swedes able to keep Danish meat out of Sweden? All part of the single market surely?

Swiss meat seems to be generally of a high standard (I worked there in 2011), but sadly they too have a perverted attachment to eating horsemeat.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Langham said:


> Are the Swedes able to keep Danish meat out of Sweden?


No, but there isn't much of it. And very few people buy it anyway.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

Langham said:


> Swiss meat seems to be generally of a high standard (I worked there in 2011), but sadly they too have a perverted attachment to eating horsemeat.


Well perhaps you missed out on the 40chf per kilo price difference between beef and horse meat here. I would think that for a meat that is almost identical (horse appears to me to be a bit gamier tasting) many people would be willing to pocket the difference and ignore false/implied moral standings. Americans prefer to wear horses on their feet, the Swiss prefer to eat them. I myself came home, took off my Shell Cordovan boots, brushed them with a horsehair brush and had a nice horse roast for dinner. For whatever it's worth, most of our horse meat is imported from Canada and the U.S.

I agree with the thought that meat is meat is meat. We eat more lamb, duck, goose and rabbit here than I ever remember seeing in the states. In the fall the stores & restuarants carry a variety of wild game whereas I don't remember this being popular in the U.S. (I'll admit that chicagoans tend to hunt 2 legged game versus the 4 legged variety found elsewhere in the U.S.).

I myself would be somewhat weary of training "everybody" in the art of killing and butchering.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

justonemore said:


> Well perhaps you missed out on the 40chf per kilo price difference between beef and horse meat here.


I did notice the extremely high cost of most food during my time in Geneva, and of course there is a long association between horse consumption and poverty - even in the UK, horse was eaten during wartime.

While getting groceries I saw not only horse but several other unusual types of meat not widely eaten here nowadays, such as goat as well as tripe, pig cheek, pigs' ears, pigs' trotters, pigs' tails and certain other types of offal as well, and I also noticed how very carefully the less well-off Swiss had to choose their meat and groceries, deliberating long and hard over what small portion of this or that meat they could afford. Much of this is merely evidence of Switzerland's rich gastronomic tradition, but the realisation that there were also poor Swiss, along with the rich bankers, company directors and jet-setters, did modify some of my preconceptions of the country.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

I had my suspicions last week, I had a couple of Tesco burgers, not bad but next morning I still had a bit between my teeth.

When I opened the rest of the pack this morning….. they're off !

I went for a burger last night and they asked if I wanted anything on it.
I said yes – £5 each way!!!

I was in the supermarket yesterday getting some supplies in. I bought a bottle of Bacardi, a bottle of Lamb's and a packet of burgers. White rum, Dark rum and Red Rum


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Chouan said:


> I had my suspicions last week, I had a couple of Tesco burgers, not bad but next morning I still had a bit between my teeth.
> 
> When I opened the rest of the pack this morning&#8230;.. they're off !
> 
> ...


Neigh more jokes like that, please.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> WHY are the Brits freaking out about eating horsemeat?


"Finally he said that among men there was no such communion as among horses and the notion that men can be understood at all was probably an illusion."
--Cormac McCarthy


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

justonemore said:


> Well perhaps you missed out on the 40chf per kilo price difference between beef and horse meat here. I would think that for a meat that is almost identical (horse appears to me to be a bit gamier tasting) many people would be willing to pocket the difference and ignore false/implied moral standings. Americans prefer to wear horses on their feet, the Swiss prefer to eat them. I myself came home, took off my Shell Cordovan boots, brushed them with a horsehair brush and had a nice horse roast for dinner. For whatever it's worth, most of our horse meat is imported from Canada and the U.S.
> 
> I agree with the thought that meat is meat is meat. We eat more lamb, duck, goose and rabbit here than I ever remember seeing in the states. In the fall the stores & restuarants carry a variety of wild game whereas I don't remember this being popular in the U.S. (I'll admit that chicagoans tend to hunt 2 legged game versus the 4 legged variety found elsewhere in the U.S.).
> 
> I myself would be somewhat weary of training "everybody" in the art of killing and butchering.


LOL. Oddly, I find myself reminded of that old movie classic, Silence of The Lambs. Does anyone suppose Hannibal Lector ate horse as well as.......! :crazy:


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. Oddly, I find myself reminded of that old movie classic, Silence of The Lambs. Does anyone suppose Hannibal Lector ate horse as well as.......! :crazy:


Ooof. Silence of the Lambs an "old movie classic"? Now I feel rather dated.:frown:


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. Oddly, I find myself reminded of that old movie classic, Silence of The Lambs. Does anyone suppose Hannibal Lector ate horse as well as.......! :crazy:


I think even he drew the line at that.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Indeed, but one can't equate Danish meat with Swedish.


Perhaps, but I just read that some ladies leggings sold in Sweden's H&M contain camel-toes..... badum....


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

VictorRomeo said:


> Perhaps, but I just read that some ladies leggings sold in Sweden's H&M contain camel-toes..... badum....


VR! I'm surprised at you.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Shaver said:


> VR! I'm surprised at you.


So shoot me....! Whoops, wrong thread!


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

It now emerges that some of the horsemeat being sold as beef is contaminated with bute, a horse-painkiller with cancer-causing properties when consumed by humans. I have also read a rather far-out theory that the covert introduction (at the government's behest) of horse meat to the human food-chain, and its attendant effects on human behaviour, was responsible for the UK riots in August 2011. I don't believe that, but it will be interesting to see whether the general public become any more discriminating in their eating habits, now that they have been given some insight into the peculiarly convoluted chains of supply.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> It now emerges that some of the horsemeat being sold as beef is contaminated with bute, a horse-painkiller with cancer-causing properties when consumed by humans. I have also read a rather far-out theory that the covert introduction (at the government's behest) of horse meat to the human food-chain, and its attendant effects on human behaviour, was responsible for the UK riots in August 2011. I don't believe that, but it will be interesting to see whether the general public become any more discriminating in their eating habits, now that they have been given some insight into the peculiarly convoluted chains of supply.


Hey! Promoting crazy conspiracy theories on AAAC is my role. :icon_smile_wink:

More seriously watching people on T.V. news who will happily stuff McDonalds in their faces but wail and weep about their having potentially eaten a little horse meat make me laugh out loud.


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

this thread makes me wonder about what these guys are actually doing: :deadhorse-a: 
initially i thought that they were beating a dead horse, but now i'm not so sure...



VictorRomeo said:


> why do they eat mechanically reclaimed pink slime aka the cheap value-pack supermarket burger.





Earl of Ormonde said:


> Now have a look at the horror story list ingredients of a packet of Danepak or Walls or some other brand on sale in the UK.





Shaver said:


> More seriously watching people on T.V. news who will happily stuff McDonalds in their faces but wail and weep about their having potentially eaten a little horse meat make me laugh out loud.


although the horse meat "scandal" _seems_ unlikely to hit here in the US (we don't slaughter horses in the US anymore, nor do we import ground "beef" from other countries), and the book takes place in the states, a good read for anyone interested is Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". Written in 1906 and taking place in Chicago's meat packing industry, it basically forced the US government to create the USDA & actually pay attention (although they don't pay that much attention) to what is going into our food...



Shaver said:


> I feel that people should have to personally kill at least one of every type of animal they eat.





Langham said:


> I would extend the commandment to butchering the animal too.


i could teach the butchery class :biggrin2: all "4" legged creatures great & small break down to similar parts & pieces



eagle2250 said:


> Does anyone suppose Hannibal Lector ate horse as well as.......! :crazy:


of course he did... with some fava beans and a nice chianti

a horse is a horse of course of course....


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. Oddly, I find myself reminded of that old movie classic, Silence of The Lambs. Does anyone suppose Hannibal Lector ate horse as well as.......! :crazy:


I'll take the fine Chianti, but leave the horse.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Hey! Promoting crazy conspiracy theories on AAAC is my role. :icon_smile_wink:


Can you possibly shed some light on why there's a shortage of shell cordovan when horse meat is so cheap we can't keep it out of the burgers?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Acme said:


> Can you possibly shed some light on why there's a shortage of shell cordovan when horse meat is so cheap we can't keep it out of the burgers?


Genetically modified horses, which dont have rear ends, have been bred for human consumption.

They do not possess heads, necks, legs, or hind quarters but are simply a string of the horses' central mass (i.e. shoulder/barrel/thigh) growing together like a giant horse centipede.

And they are still more palatable than burger chain products. :icon_smile:


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Acme said:


> Can you possibly shed some light on why there's a shortage of shell cordovan when horse meat is so cheap we can't keep it out of the burgers?


That's a good question. I have it on good authority that horse hides are worth less than cattle hides, which seems odd as I have always understood horse is better leather.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Genetically modified horses, which dont have rear ends, have been bred for human consumption.
> 
> They do not possess heads, necks, legs, or hind quarters but are simply a string of the horses' central mass (i.e. shoulder/barrel/thigh) growing together like a giant horse centipede.
> 
> And they are still more palatable than burger chain products. :icon_smile:


What a terrifying imagination you have, Shaver, a truly nightmarish image...:icon_pale:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Langham said:


> What a terrifying imagination you have, Shaver, a truly nightmarish image...:icon_pale:


What can I say? I eat the same type of ergot moldy bread as once did Hieronymous Bosch. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

On sentimental grounds i would not undertake to eat horse or dog. I would eat horse if it were served. I'd have to respectfully decline dog, hoping my hosts would not take offense. I did as a child eat pork that turned out to have been a piece of been my pet pig, whose name was Waffles 

I still eat pork, although not frequently as the animals are being bred and fed to yield meat that lacks fat, and hence is tougher and less tasty than proper pork. I also eat waffles.

Having killed and dressed chickens and rabbits, as well as helping with large animals such as cows and pigs, I am not squimish about the nature of the meat we eat. In a sense, to think about the meat one is eating as it was when on the hoof, or wing, fin etc. is to respect the animal that feeds you.

Agriculture, while not gory, is generally disruptive of the natural landscape. Industrial farming has its own set of problems. It is well to think about where all of our food comes from and how it is produced. You probably don't want to know very much about the white industrially produced liquid sold as milk.

Tonight I had a very well prepared and moist, fatty serving of brisket at a nearby restaurant which serves locally sourced meat and produce. The dessert of poached pear and goat cheese ice cream was delicious.

Cheers,
Gurdon

PS: Venison prepared as one would sauerbratten is delicous.


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

Acme said:


> Can you possibly shed some light on why there's a shortage of shell cordovan when horse meat is so cheap we can't keep it out of the burgers?


Different horses... The best shell cordovan comes from work horses... Which, through their life as a worker, have meat that is pretty tough & inedible...


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Horsemeat trade*

This turned up on Alternet and I thought it might be informative. Having read it I think I will politely decline if offered horsemeat in Europe.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## rsgordon (Dec 6, 2012)

Urban people in the US seem to me to be somewhere between 99 and 100% ignorant of everything they eat (both carnivores and herbivores)


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## yen157 (Feb 16, 2012)

I can appreciate the arguments that are being made in favor of truth in labeling, but the outrage specifically at horse meat is arbitrary for all of the reasons already mentioned. 

I am disappointed in my Governor (Christie) specifically outlawing horse meat.


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