# What's wrong with my Indochino suit??



## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

Specifically, the jacket...to my eye, it's not quite right. The waist is really suppressed, and the angle seems too sharp. Should I let out the waist, or could the problem be that the chest is too big? (Which it seems to be.) Or could it have to do with the hip measurement on the jacket? The hips also seem to flare out too much. Would that be caused by a hip measurement that's too big, or one that's too small? Here are some pictures.










































And as a point of comparison, an older jacket I have that, in my view, fits me better.










The second jacket's waist measurement is barely any bigger, but it doesn't have that sharp angle at the waist the way the Indochino jacket does. (The chest on the second jacket, however, might be a couple of inches smaller.) Could the sharp waist angle just be the way Indochino cuts their jackets? I think I need to make some adjustments. Any and all thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated, I would like to be able to get this right.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Here's what I see:
Waist is too tight (too much waist suppression)
Chest seems a little baggy 
back is baggy 
Shoulders seem a little off 

Solution: Have Indochino remake the suit.


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## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

Thanks ZachGranstrom, that all makes sense to me. So you think the shoulders are a tad on the wide side I presume? Here are the adjustments I was thinking I should submit for the remake, let me know what you think:

Shoulders: subtract 0.5"
Chest: subtract 1"
Waist: add 1"

I almost feel like I should subtract more from the chest, but I'm hesitant to go below 44" (I submitted 45" last time) since a 46 normally fits me well. 

Thanks again, very much appreciate the input.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

^^^
I think those measurements should work.( *Remember: You can get your suit remade as many times as you want *)

Also,here's a thread that I found helpful when purchasing from Indochino: https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=52943&page=79

Helpful blog: https://www.indochino-review.com/


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

aspiringadult said:


> Thanks ZachGranstrom, that all makes sense to me. So you think the shoulders are a tad on the wide side I presume? Here are the adjustments I was thinking I should submit for the remake, let me know what you think:
> 
> Shoulders: subtract 0.5"
> Chest: subtract 1"
> ...


While I agree with the adjustments you are suggesting and must admit I am hesitant to suggest this based only on pictures, I would also see if they can reduce the padding in the shoulders. Perhaps it is because the jacket is presently over sized but, those shoulders look like they belong on a weekend warrior looking for a pick-up football game! Good luck with the resizing. :thumbs-up:


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## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

Funny, those shoulders are actually a result of picking the "natural shoulders" option. They actually are quite thin; maybe I'm pulling the jacket in too tight in an attempt to get the shoulders to fit me better, causing the pads to bunch up. I also chose the "high armhole" option; I could stand for the armholes to be a little smaller, but maybe narrowing the shoulders and the chest will help with that. 

I'm still a little perplexed by hip measurements; how can one tell if the skirt of the jacket is a good fit? And if one wishes to keep the skirt from "flaring" out, would one increase the hip measurement or decrease it? My hips are a little on the wide side and I'd like to prevent the "flare-out" if possible. 

If anyone is so inclined, I'd be curious to see what people think of the fit of the jacket in the bottom picture as well. 

Thanks for the help fellas.


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

aspiringadult said:


> I'm still a little perplexed by hip measurements; how can one tell if the skirt of the jacket is a good fit? And if one wishes to keep the skirt from "flaring" out, would one increase the hip measurement or decrease it? My hips are a little on the wide side and I'd like to prevent the "flare-out" if possible.
> 
> If anyone is so inclined, I'd be curious to see what people think of the fit of the jacket in the bottom picture as well.
> 
> Thanks for the help fellas.


Regarding the skirt of the jacket, I think it's down to personal preference how you have it: some like it more flared than others. If the suit company cut them flared I don't know if there is a way to reduce it with hip measurements alone. I once tried a jacket on that had a waist suppression and skirt flare as yours, and when I tried the next size up, the chest fit was fine, but was baggy around the lower torso. The jacket was cut to follow closely the contours of the body (ie. slim cut), but it was too drastic for my liking.

Your last photo: I like the skirt and flare; I'd say that's spot on. However, I'd say the shoulder is tad wide.

(I like how your open collar sits, by the way.)


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Relaxing the waist suppression on you new jacket will, I suspect, go a long way toward eliminating the 'flaring out of the skirt' that is concerning you. To my eye, your jacket in the final picture fits you quite well. Good luck.


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## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

Just took the Indochino jacket to the tailor to get her take on it. She actually advised taking the waist _in_. Which seems kind of crazy to me. She said to take the chest in 2", and the waist and hips in 1". She also said to leave the shoulders where they are, because otherwise my upper arms will protrude out.

Obviously she favors a very slim look. I'm not going to bring the waist in, but is there a chance it will look better than it does now just by bringing the chest in, and leaving the waist where it is? Seems that might help in terms of not making the waist suppression look so severe.

She might have a point on the shoulders; my shoulders aren't all that wide but my arms are on the big side, so I'm not exactly sure how to negotiate all that. If a jacket's pads really do end where my shoulder ends, the sleeve tends to be really tight on the top of my arm. Any suggestions?

And does 2" in on the chest seem like too much? I know it's hard to tell such precise things from pictures. I don't want to defer to my tailor just because she actually looked at it; she has some different ideals it seems.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

I believe your button stand is too high. 

I never like the soft natural shoulder myself or soft tailoring it really only works well with certain builds.

If you have big hips do not take the chest in on this suit!


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## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

So if you have big hips you should wear your jacket way too big in the chest?


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

A couple of thoughts here:

(1) Have you considered a second tailor's opinion? Personally, I would never trust a woman seamstress with men's tailoring. Men know men. Women know women. 

(2) The waist is definately too tight. 

(3) The button stance does seem a tad high, which is probably the result of the design. It seems like many places will eliminate the third button from a jacket's pattern without adjusting the location of the remaining two buttons based on the loss of a third.

(4) Could the flare of the skirting be caused by wrinkled cloth? The flair doesn't seem consistent on both sides.

I was curious your thoughts on the pick-stitching. I have ordered from Indochino in the past and haven't been pleased with the pick-stitching as there just seems to be too much of it and sometimes it comes off cheap. I ordered a suit from Indochino in September and the pick-stitching on one lapel actually came undone and fell off.

I agree with the other gentleman concerning your the lay of your open shirt collar. Where is the shirt from?


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## joeyb1000 (Feb 24, 2010)

ZachGranstrom said:


> Here's what I see:
> Waist is too tight (too much waist suppression)
> Chest seems a little baggy
> back is baggy
> ...


I agree


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

aspiringadult said:


> So if you have big hips you should wear your jacket way too big in the chest?


It's about balance isn't it? I believe suits are about "constructing" a form first "fitting" the body in many ways comes second. A "perfect" fit on many people 
would look rather terrible. The only rule though is if it looks right it is right.


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## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

hockeyinsider said:


> A couple of thoughts here:
> 
> (1) Have you considered a second tailor's opinion? Personally, I would never trust a woman seamstress with men's tailoring. Men know men. Women know women.
> 
> ...


1. A reasonable point. She's definitely said a few things that have caused me to question her expertise on suits...like that vents are "old-fashioned" and will be phased out soon. She also didn't know what roped shoulders were and thought they were a defect (I'm not saying I necessarily like them, but I'd expect a tailor to know that they were there by design). My only guidance for finding a good local tailor is Yelp, and I don't exactly have faith in the ability of the masses to accurately evaluate a tailor's relevant expertise either...but I guess I gotta start somewhere.

2. It's strange, but I've measured it and compared it to a bunch of jackets I have where the waist looks pretty good, and the waist on this one is barely any smaller. I think that the oversized chest and hips may be the culprits here. I may take a chance and leave the waist as is for the remake and see if altering the other measurements does the trick.

3. Button stance is on the high side, though it's pretty much in line with my natural waist. My higher waist that is (I seem to have two...weird).

4. I noticed the uneven flaring too, but I don't think it's wrinkling. Construction? A weird body? I'm not sure. Hopefully the next version will be better.

I'm no pick-stitching connoisseur...I've only recently really began noticing it and paying attention to it. I looked at the stitching and compared it to some of my other jackets, but I'm not exactly sure what to look for in terms of quality. So I might not be the best person to ask, but if you wanna let me know what to look for I'd be happy to check it out for you.

The shirt is a Banana Republic slim fit purchased a year ago for about $25. What exactly does lay of the collar mean? How it stays up and hugs the neck?


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

aspiringadult said:


> 1. A reasonable point. She's definitely said a few things that have caused me to question her expertise on suits...like that vents are "old-fashioned" and will be phased out soon. She also didn't know what roped shoulders were and thought they were a defect (I'm not saying I necessarily like them, but I'd expect a tailor to know that they were there by design). My only guidance for finding a good local tailor is Yelp, and I don't exactly have faith in the ability of the masses to accurately evaluate a tailor's relevant expertise either...but I guess I gotta start somewhere.
> 
> 2. It's strange, but I've measured it and compared it to a bunch of jackets I have where the waist looks pretty good, and the waist on this one is barely any smaller. I think that the oversized chest and hips may be the culprits here. I may take a chance and leave the waist as is for the remake and see if altering the other measurements does the trick.
> 
> ...


Well, you're in the Los Angeles area, so surely there are heaps of tailors. Heck, you could probably go to the fashion district and find heaps of 100 percent wool Chinese-made suits in all sorts of styles, cuts and cloths at super cheap prices that could be tailored to your exact measurements for less than Indochino.

With respect to the pick stitching, the Indochino pick stitching bunches up by the buttons and becomes very visible, whereas it is fairly decent on the lapels.

The collar stance remains in tact and spread out; it doesn't fold over.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately, it appears to be an astoundingly ill-fitting, very poorly constructed jacket.
As noted by others, yes, the chest is excessively voluminous, as is the back; the button stance is far too high, and it almost appears as though you have a pair of oven mitts stuffed up under the shoulders. (What _is _going on up there?) ...And that pick stitching is outright annoying. Pick stitching should be a subtle detail, performed flawlessly, with fine, even stitches. This is not that.

As well as the button stance being too high, so is the jacket's waist. Instead of accentuating your chest and reducing the visual impact of your hips, this has exactly the opposite effect. (And from the photos, it would also seem that the gorge is _very _high. Is this something you requested?)

Regarding other flaws in construction, if you are standing with your natural posture in these photos, the sleeves need to be rotated (that is why they are bunching up in the area of your triceps, rather than hanging smoothly); the fabric is uneven at the seams (causing bunching and puckering on one side or the other, rather than a nice, flat, straight seam); there seems to be an odd pucker in the area of the left pocket flap, and the outline of the breast pocket would appear to be visibly bulging through (or do you have a pocket square hidden in there?)

On the positive side, the right sleeve seems to be just about the correct length (though the left appears to be a bit long) and it has surgeon's cuffs... if that is something you happen to like.

To put it all in a nutshell (and to be be brutally frank, if I have not yet been so), that jacket, as it is, is an abomination. One expects (and finds) better fitting, more cleanly constructed jackets on $200 off-the-rack suits. This jacket cannot be resurrected with alterations. It _must _be remade.


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## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

Thanks for the thorough analysis Checkerboard, and I appreciate the frankness...we're just talking about a suit here, not my newborn child or something. I should have been more clear before, I'm definitely getting the suit remade, it's just a question of what specific changes to make. You've raised some issues that hadn't been brought up before; your critique of the construction is what's most troubling, since that's not something that will improve based on messing with the measurements. Taking your comments one at a time:

1. The chest. Bringing that in 2"; we'll see how that works out. 
2. The button stance and waist. The top button actually is right at about where my natural waist is, which from what I understand is a good standard. Do you think it should be lower regardless of the location of one's natural waist?
3. The shoulders and the oven mitts hidden underneath. I'm not sure what's going on there. If I pull the jacket down taut they look better (I should have done that before taking the pictures), but still a little lumpy. However, they look straight when sitting on a hanger. I went with the natural shoulders option, so I'm thinking the lumps might just be a reflection of the shape of my shoulders (and maybe a shirt that got scrunched up underneath the jacket). Maybe I should switch to the normal pads option.
4. The pick stitching. Could you point out how it's flawed? Like I noted earlier, I know little about pick-stitching and what it's supposed to look like. If they're going to be screwing it up I can just go with the no pick-stitching option.
5. Gorge definitely on the high side. Didn't request that.
6. Sleeves needing rotation. Is this something a tailor can do after the fact? Is the fact that the sleeves need rotation a reflection of poor construction or normal variation in human bodies?
7. Uneven fabric at the seams. Not exactly sure what this means; could you point it out to me more specifically?
8. Pocket bulge. No pocket square, so I'm not sure what that is. But it's not encouraging.

Thanks again Checkerboard. And don't worry, this abomination will certainly never be seen on me outside my residence.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

aspiringadult said:


> Thanks for the thorough analysis Checkerboard, and I appreciate the frankness...we're just talking about a suit here, not my newborn child or something. I should have been more clear before, I'm definitely getting the suit remade, it's just a question of what specific changes to make. You've raised some issues that hadn't been brought up before; your critique of the construction is what's most troubling, since that's not something that will improve based on messing with the measurements. Taking your comments one at a time:
> 
> 1. The chest. Bringing that in 2"; we'll see how that works out.
> 2. The button stance and waist. The top button actually is right at about where my natural waist is, which from what I understand is a good standard. Do you think it should be lower regardless of the location of one's natural waist?
> ...


The chest and back definitely need to be smaller. Did you take your own measurements, or did you have yourself measured by a tailor?
As for the waist and button stance, look at the photos you posted. As I mentioned, the jacket -despite being too large in the chest- causes you to appear to have a small, constricted chest and larger hips. It should do just the opposite: accentuating the positive, and diminishing the negative.

I am not sure either what is happening with those "natural" shoulders (which is why I asked), however a quick google brought up complaints from others about those same shoulders appearing lumpy.

Here is an example of pick stitching properly done:








Notice that the stitches are fine, even, straight, and that the fabric does not pucker at the stitches.
Personally, I feel it is only a gimmick when an inexpensive suit incorporates features commonly expected of high quality suits. The time and money spent on pick stitching and "surgeon's cuffs" would better be put into improving the cut and construction of the suit. These gimmicks may give an uninformed buyer a false sense of "luxury" but when done poorly (or even done well on a poor-quality suit) they will not fool anyone who is knowledgeable about suit construction.

It is your choice on the placement of the gorge. To my taste it is high.

Rotating sleeves can be done by a tailor, but it is expensive. Their being off is not necessarily a reflection of the quality of construction, but rather of the fact that no fittings were done during the construction of the suit.

Regarding the seams, it may just be how they show in your photograph, however it appears to me that on some seams the fabric is puckered on one side of the seam or the other. The fabric should be smooth, flat, and even on both sides, where it meets at a seam. (The collar/lapel seam on the above photo might be taken as an example, though that is not necessarily one of the areas I noticed in your photos.)


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## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

I've had my chest measured by tailors and done it myself. I find it a hard measurement to do...just how much air is one supposed to have in their lungs? In any case, some tailors have said 46, others 44. I submitted 45. For the remake I've submitted 43. Hopefully that'll do the trick. 

I'm hoping bringing the chest in (and the hips 1") will fix the small chest/big hips appearance issue. If it doesn't, maybe I'll remake it again and ask for a lower waist and button stance. Or just give up and go somewhere else.

I'm also going to go with the standard shoulders instead of "natural", and see if that helps. If it doesn't, then I think I'm done. Suit only cost $250 but a suit that looks crappy and will only take up space in my closet isn't worth $10.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

aspiringadult said:


> I've had my chest measured by tailors and done it myself. I find it a hard measurement to do...just how much air is one supposed to have in their lungs? In any case, some tailors have said 46, others 44. I submitted 45. For the remake I've submitted 43. Hopefully that'll do the trick.
> 
> I'm hoping bringing the chest in (and the hips 1") will fix the small chest/big hips appearance issue. If it doesn't, maybe I'll remake it again and ask for a lower waist and button stance. Or just give up and go somewhere else.
> 
> I'm also going to go with the standard shoulders instead of "natural", and see if that helps. If it doesn't, then I think I'm done. Suit only cost $250 but a suit that looks crappy and will only take up space in my closet isn't worth $10.


Your last comment sums it up perfectly, "only cost $250". Give Indochine a chance to re-make it and see how it goes. I wouldn't go to the well a third time. I agree with all the other posters, and from the looks of it I won't be going the Indochine route in the future; I can't help but think it's extremely difficult (if not impossible) to send a bunch of measurements overseas to people who've never seen you and expect to get something different that the result you got. But $250 isn't the most expensive learning experience ever.


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## aspiringadult (Jul 13, 2010)

Actually I'm pretty sure you can get your money back if you're totally unsatisfied, even after a couple remakes, so if it comes to it the cost of this learning experience should just be the cost of return shipping. I haven't quite given up hope yet though. The pants seem like a good fit (although in the pictures they don't seem to hang that well...what's with those wavey rippley things? Or is that just something that happens with slacks? I've never looked at them this closely before.) If this doesn't work I'll probably go to a local Hong Kong based tailor and get something made for $500-$700. Presumably a suit made by someone who actually measures me will fit well.


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## ProperSuit (Jan 11, 2012)

*Cardboard Chest*

Button stance is poor and chest is too big. Also the fusing and poor construction gives it a cardboard appearance. -Richard


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