# Brooks Brothers Recalls Golden Fleece Suiting



## mmcc47 (Sep 3, 2011)

I just wanted to inform all of you that Brooks Brothers is in the middle of a complete recall of all Golden Fleece Suits and Tuxedos. Brooks employed Martin Greenfield to manufacture a high amount of the suiting. After review, Greenfield has been tinkering with his manufacturing lowering the quality of the goods. Del Vecchio became very unimpressed and in fact Greenfield is now in dispute with the company. The new Golden Fleece suiting will all be made in Southwick and some of the garments continuously made in Italy. I thought you would all find this interesting.


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Very interesting. Where did you see this? By the way, "suiting" is the cloth from which" suits" are made, and "shirting" is the cloth from which "shirts" are made.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes, we need sources, man!


----------



## Starting Late (Apr 26, 2010)

Wow. Never would have thought that of Greenfield.


----------



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

We do need sources, as I have a GF suit that I'm quite unhappy with......


----------



## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

I've all but given up on Brooks and seldom even bother to browse. (I do keep a stockpile of a dozen or so pairs of boxers when they have a sale online. )

But this is very good information and another great reason why AAAC is so valuable to so many people with the shared interest of clothing and putting themselves together.


----------



## Daveyboy (Jul 18, 2010)

*Confirmation please*

Has there been any confirmation of the original post?


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

mmcc47 said:


> I just wanted to inform all of you that Brooks Brothers is in the middle of a complete recall of all Golden Fleece Suits and Tuxedos. Brooks employed Martin Greenfield to manufacture a high amount of the suiting. After review, Greenfield has been tinkering with his manufacturing lowering the quality of the goods. Del Vecchio became very unimpressed and in fact Greenfield is now in dispute with the company. The new Golden Fleece suiting will all be made in Southwick and some of the garments continuously made in Italy. I thought you would all find this interesting.


This is very interesting, but as I'm sure you know, it raises many questions. Didn't know Mr. Del Vecchio did QC. Interesting that manufacture would be moved from a non-Brooks owned facility to a Brooks owned one. But of course, it couldn't possibly have to do with a search for higer margins.


----------



## Pei Hyde (Jan 4, 2010)

All Brooks Brother OTR Golden Fleece Suits are now made by Southwick in Massachuesetts. This has been going on for over a year. I believe the reason is BB owns Southwick. I have three Golden Fleece suits and they are all from Southwick. Now, if you want your Golden Fleece from Martin Greenfield, you have to order MTM. I just ordered a Harris Tweed sportcoat today with John G Hardy fabric. It will be made in New York by Martin Greenfield.


----------



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

I'm trying to get a confirmation or denial from Brooks but it's the weekend - good time to start an unsubstantiated rumor!


----------



## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

A citation is definitely needed here.

Why would BB issue a recall of men's suits? _"..lowering the quality of the goods."_, doesn't really say a lot. Is it a safety recall?


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

MikeDT said:


> Why would BB issue a recall of men's suits?


Claudio found a loose thread on one.

MG said, "No problem, we'll just take them all back."


----------



## mmcc47 (Sep 3, 2011)

Wasn't Dick Cheney part of Halliburton during the Iraq War?


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
:icon_scratch: :icon_scratch: Forgive me, I'm a bit slow this AM, but...a little clarification please!


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I have no idea how that relates to this either.


----------



## Bricktop (Feb 10, 2010)

mmcc47 said:


> Wasn't Dick Cheney part of Halliburton during the Iraq War?


What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?


----------



## g3dahl (Aug 26, 2011)

Ah! I do believe that mmcc47 was categorizing the alleged Brooks Brothers recall as a conspiracy theory. Dick Cheney was part of Halliburton before becoming Vice President, but there were accusations of a continued connection and thus a conflict of interest.

Am I right, mmcc47?

My first post. All you AAAC people rock -- I'm happy to be here!


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)




----------



## Grenadier (Dec 24, 2008)

g3dahl said:


> Ah! I do believe that mmcc47 was categorizing the alleged Brooks Brothers recall as a conspiracy theory. Dick Cheney was part of Halliburton before becoming Vice President, but there were accusations of a continued connection and thus a conflict of interest.
> 
> Am I right, mmcc47?
> 
> My first post. All you AAAC people rock -- I'm happy to be here!


You forget that there's a lot less money in menswear than in wars. Sad to say it, but it's true.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

g3dahl said:


> Ah! I do believe that mmcc47 was categorizing the alleged Brooks Brothers recall as a conspiracy theory. Dick Cheney was part of Halliburton before becoming Vice President, but there were accusations of a continued connection and thus a conflict of interest.
> 
> Am I right, mmcc47?
> 
> My first post. All you AAAC people rock -- I'm happy to be here!


Thanks for clearing that up. And welcome to the forum!


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Conspiracy theories...Damn it! Now where did I put that "tin foil" hat of mine? :crazy:


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> Conspiracy theories...Damn it! Now where did I put that "tin foil" hat of mine? :crazy:


I'm not sure what the story is, but my Greenfield GF suits are a lot nicer than the Southwick Black Fleece suits I took a look at.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> Conspiracy theories...Damn it! Now where did I put that "tin foil" hat of mine? :crazy:


Outsourced to China.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

mmcc47 said:


> I just wanted to inform all of you that Brooks Brothers is in the middle of a complete *recall *of all Golden Fleece Suits and Tuxedos.


 Unless, of course, you really do mean that BB is publicly calling for all suits (within the scope of the recall) already purchased by consumers be immediately returned to BB for replacement/repair/refund. The only recalls I can recall seeing in the context of clothing was for clothing that was determined to have toxic fumes/agents, and (more commonly) from infant pajamas that were determined to be flammable.


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

It certainly wasn't the best troll I've seen posted on AAAC, but the OP did manage to catch a couple of fish!


----------



## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Brooks Brothers did a recall to avoid Ralph Nader from exposing the tailored clothing industry in a new book, "Unfit at Any Size."

This is defamatory. The Greenfields are honorable people.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Sources, please! All of this means nothing more than hearsay if there's nothing to back it up.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

son of brummell said:


> Brooks Brothers did a recall to avoid Ralph Nader from exposing the tailored clothing industry in a new book, "Unfit at Any Size."
> 
> This is defamatory. The Greenfields are honorable people.


HAR!!


----------



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Unless the op can back this up, it's probably best to lock this.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Still waiting for the OP and Mr. Seitelman to explain where they heard these things...

Your input is noted but moderators keep their own counsel on which threads should be locked. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Taken Aback, assuming the OP was mistaken/full of excrement, I think leaving the thread unlocked has done a great deal of good. The incredulity/skepticism of most posters has quickly become the dominant tone of the thread, and should alert any future readers to the fact that the first post is of dubious reliability.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Pei Hyde said:


> I just ordered a Harris Tweed sportcoat today with John G Hardy fabric.


?????


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Two totally different fabric mills there, yes.


----------



## mmcc47 (Sep 3, 2011)

I work for Brooks Brothers you fools. Get down on your knees and feel privileged to have such a plethora of information at your fingertips from inside the belly.


----------



## mmcc47 (Sep 3, 2011)

And I will not photocopy business documents from my employer for you all to see. This was supposed to be a charity service but you all are too unwise to investigate this properly and realize it.


----------



## Grenadier (Dec 24, 2008)

mmcc47 said:


> I work for Brooks Brothers you fools. Get down on your knees and feel privileged to have such a plethora of information at your fingertips from inside the belly.


And I'm the Queen of England.


----------



## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

...


----------



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers by my suggestion.



CuffDaddy said:


> Taken Aback, assuming the OP was mistaken/full of excrement, I think leaving the thread unlocked has done a great deal of good. The incredulity/skepticism of most posters has quickly become the dominant tone of the thread, and should alert any future readers to the fact that the first post is of dubious reliability.


I think it does more damage to leave it, and have it bumped up consistently. Google indexes these threads, and a quick search for "Brooks" and "recall" may soon bring this up, if it isn't already. While an intelligent consumer should then read the thread in that instance, the impulsive one looking for a reason not to make a purchase might decide right there. BB doesn't need me to come to their defense, but that's the downside here.

If a consensus has been reached that the OP's assertion is not true, then it seems more prudent to nip this in the bud. Nothing is stopping him from PM'ing Jovan with his "proof".


----------



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Taken Aback said:


> Google indexes these threads, and a quick search for "Brooks" and "recall" may soon bring this up, *if it isn't already*.


Already the #1 result for 'Brooks recall', 'Brooks Brothers recall', 'Martin Greenfield recall', etc. Google indexing of fora (all of them) is quite thorough and updated nearly instantly due to the fast paced nature.


----------



## boatswaindog (Nov 18, 2010)

Does anyone know the morning line odds on the original post being accurate? I would like to place a wager on 'Rude Internet Tipster' finishing out of the money


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

I didn't take this thread very seriously, but take a look at the BB website. I'm not seeing any GF suits listed!


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

joenobody0 said:


> I didn't take this thread very seriously, but take a look at the BB website. I'm not seeing any GF suits listed!


Everyday values https://www.brooksbrothers.com/brooksbuys/landing_brooksbuys_men.tem

Golden Fleece, 2 for $2499


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

arkirshner said:


> Everyday values https://www.brooksbrothers.com/brooksbuys/landing_brooksbuys_men.tem
> 
> Golden Fleece, 2 for $2499


Strange. If you look under suits all you see is "1818" and "Suiting Essentials". Seemed like a bit of an odd coincidence, but maybe just a glitch in the BB website.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

So it seems BB is using Southwick to make their Golden Fleece stuff now. Not sure they dropped Martin Greenfield for the reasons Mr. Seitelman said, however.


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Jovan said:


> So it seems BB is using Southwick to make their Golden Fleece stuff now. Not sure they dropped Martin Greenfield for the reasons Mr. Seitelman said, however.


Someone on the other forum claims to have called customer service who confirmed the "recall". Odd.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

But is it really a recall in the strict sense or just them switching to a manufacturer they own? As someone else said in the other thread, they may just want less overhead and more control over the end product. Martin Greenfield is a great maker, no doubt, but I've heard from many that they can't make a traditional 3/2 sack very well. Make no mistake, I've been critical about BB making certain decisions, but I have a feeling it's not as evil as some are making it out to be.


----------



## g3dahl (Aug 26, 2011)

arkirshner said:


> Everyday values https://www.brooksbrothers.com/brooksbuys/landing_brooksbuys_men.tem
> 
> Golden Fleece, 2 for $2499


...but if you click on the link, it leads this message:

Currently there are no products in this department. Please check back soon. Thank you.​


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Jovan said:


> But is it really a recall in the strict sense or just them switching to a manufacturer they own? As someone else said in the other thread, they may just want less overhead and more control over the end product. Martin Greenfield is a great maker, no doubt, but I've heard from many that they can't make a traditional 3/2 sack very well. Make no mistake, I've been critical about BB making certain decisions, but I have a feeling it's not as evil as some are making it out to be.


I'm really not sure. I have a Greenfield blazer, and at one point owned a Southwick Black Fleece blazer. The Southwick jacket was very nice and was clearly a good deal nicer than the standard 1818 stuff that Southwick usually produces. I think people would need to check the inside of each garment to determine which one is nicer.

Also, I don't know if it's a recall or they just switched manufacturers, but the dramatic pulling of all stock (some of which was made by Southwick already) is odd. You would think if they were just changing manufacturers that the Greenfield stuff would all end up in the discount section.


----------



## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

arkirshner said:


> Everyday values https://www.brooksbrothers.com/brooksbuys/landing_brooksbuys_men.tem
> 
> Golden Fleece, 2 for $2499


Try clicking the link for the Golden Fleece suits. Blank page, no products, check back soon.... No GF anywhere to be had..


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

It's entirely possible that BB has changed suppliers for GF suits. It is even possible that it is because of quality concerns.

But it's still not a "recall." Changing suppliers is not a recall. Here's the government's website for consumer product recalls. Although some company called "Brook*shire* Brothers" recalled some ammonia or something, there's no US recall for Brooks Brothers.


----------



## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

I guess if they pulled a line from their stores and offered refunds or fixes to customers that could be construed as a recall. 

If they just pulled the gf that would just be that. However, it seems kind of hastily done, which supports the op:s assertion that (while maybe not being a recall in the technical sense) there's something going on...


----------



## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Spoke with a local SA about this and they said they weren't 100% sure what was going on either. Said he thought the GF went back to the warehouse, but I didn't have time to really inquire more (it was busy, I think they were short-staffed). Anyone else heard anything?


----------



## jmr (Mar 6, 2006)

Here is the response I received from BB's customer service in response to my inquiry regarding this issue:

Thank you for contacting Brooks Brothers customer service.

An unwavering commitment to product quality is one of the hallmarks of Brooks Brothers and we take the responsibility of upholding high standards very seriously. The integrity of our product has helped establish our reputation and it will continue to be a cornerstone of the foundation upon which our success is built.

Even with rigorous testing and quality assurance, there are rare instances when merchandise is produced in a condition that is not commensurate with our standards. Presently, we have determined that there are a sufficient number of inconsistencies in our line of Golden Fleece tailored clothing that warrants us to remove the existing product from inventory. Although this decision is significant and might be viewed as an overreaction given the relatively small percentage of garments that are impacted, we do not want to offer anything to our customers that would compromise their faith in our quality or their confidence in our products. In the coming months we plan to replenish our Golden Fleece tailored clothing inventory with all new product. 


We apologize for any concerns that this decision presents, however we hope that you will agree that it is the right course of action. In the interim period, we have a very strong 1818 offering in the fall season, with a greater diversity of fabrics, fits and silhouettes than ever and for a customer more inclined toward the Golden Fleece make level and materials, our Special Order program is a recommendation, where our offerings are better than ever. 

Please contact us if you need further assistance.


----------



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

So does this mean I can take my GF suit with terrible fabric back to the store and get a replacement in 1818?


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

Wow. OP was right. I wonder what was happening. You'd think it would have to be something fairly serious, like using fusibles in a supposedly full canvas garment. After everything we've heard about Martin Greenfield throughout the years, it's hard to imagine they were screwing the Brethren. Interesting stuff.


----------



## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

Grenadier said:


> And I'm the Queen of England.


Looks as if England has a challenger for the Title.

Interesting turn of events. Seems AAAC had a real heads up on this.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

So where is the stuff going??

Marshalls??


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Kudos to BB for pulling the line, and to the op for pointing it out. Clearly it would have been a mistake to lock the thread.


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> So where is the stuff going??
> 
> Marshalls??


It depends. If MG really did produce them to subpar standards, they might all be going back to him. In that case, they will probably end up on Gilt.


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

I bet they go to BB outlets before they go to Marshall's.


----------



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

nolan50410 said:


> I bet they go to BB outlets before they go to Marshall's.


I'm wondering if this has already happened. My GF is marked from an outlet, and while it fits well, I simply find it to be of terrible quality for a supposed $1500+ suit from the esteemed Brooks Brothers.


----------



## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Why would it necessarily end up anywhere? Bad product with your brand name on it is better burned...


----------



## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

Bjorn said:


> Why would it necessarily end up anywhere? Bad product with your brand name on it is better burned...


This is my thought as well. If it doesn't pass a the quality level, it can't carry the badge. If it is sold with a badge, it is counterfeit.
Either destroy it, or re-badge it. If it is advertised as equal to a BB item, it is fraud.


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

THE PLOT THICKENS--

Whose product is recalled? A question for Brooks to answer.

RESPONSE FROM TOD GREENFIELD

Hi Alan,

I have no knowledge of the supposed recall. My company has only manufactured Made to Measure clothing for them for the past few years. From reading the AAAC blog post you sent me, it sounds to me like this would involve ready to wear clothing manufactured by some other factory, but again I learned of this only by your e-mail, and I have no direct information.

Thanks, Tod

Tod Greenfield

Martin Greenfield Clothiers

www.greenfieldclothiers.com

239 Varet Street

Brooklyn, New York 11206

(718) 497-5480 tel.

(718) 456-3365 fax


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Ahhh...


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

So MG has never done GF?


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> So MG has never done GF?


Until a few years ago they did. I did not realize they had stopped until hearing from Mr. T Greenfield.. Apparently others here were not aware either.

Botton line is:

the OP was right about BB pulling their RTW GF inventory

the OP was dead wrong about who made the pulled inventory

the OP defamed the Greenfields,

the Greenfields' reputation is so good that it can withstand the OP's anonymous BS

the OP was correctly suspended

The OP should be banned


----------



## DorianGrey (Jul 6, 2007)

I have been monitoring this thread since it started and based on Tod's response, along with some recent personal experiences, I have another theory - and it is just a theory.

I have thought for some time that MG has not been the maker of off-the rack GF suits for a while. I have purchased many GF suits and two blazers over the last 10 yrs and the suits I have ordered online over the last couple years have all been sent back. The two GF blazers were fine - in fact beautiful and well made.

About six months ago I bought a suit and blazer at J Press last time I was on the East Coast. They were running a line of beautifully made full canvas models produced by MG. So I know MGC still makes quality product.

A few weeks ago I walked in to my "local" BB store and found a wonderful sportcoat - fully canvassed (I am 100% positive), beautiful construction and hand. I asked the sales associate (one who I know and trust) if this was a GF item because it was so well constructed. He said it wasn't but it was a new line made in the USA. I assumed Southwick. I looked at the tag - MADE IN CHINA! We were blown away.

I find this recall very strange. I also know business and find BB recalling a whole line because of "quality" equally strange. You think they would have called the stores and just ask the associates or the store tailors to check if there were any construction issues and send the ones back that could not be fixed. Not all stores carry the GF line so to have the flagships check would not be that big of a deal. To recall a whole line sight unseen seems costly.

Here is my theory - actually more of a hypothesis. I wonder if this is not about quality and construction but also about outsourcing and trade/commerce laws??? Maybe there were items tagged made in the USA that they found were outsourced and improperly tagged as made here but were made in China or elsewhere. I am not a lawyer and do not know international commerce laws but I think companies HAVE to tag the source of origin right or can get into trouble. To me this would demand a recall to sort all this out and the penalties would justify the cost of a recall. I do not think a certain percentage of returns due to quality on Made in the USA merchandise would justify all this effort.

Anyway, hypothesis right or wrong, I think there is more to the story.

I do not mean do defame BB or insinuate any shady business practices in any way, shape, or form, by the way. I love the company and its products. BTW - I bought the made in China sportcoat


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> So where is the stuff going??
> 
> Marshalls??


Maybe so.

https://uptowndandy.blogspot.com/2011/09/strange-happenings-at-marshalls.html


----------



## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

arkirshner said:


> Until a few years ago they did. I did not realize they had stopped until hearing from Mr. T Greenfield.. Apparently others here were not aware either.
> 
> Botton line is:
> 
> ...


Having read TG's email to you, I would not say that he answered any questions directly, other than the company manufactures the MTM items and he is personally unaware. I don't think it has been ruled out that said company may have something do with the items yet (IE farming work out).

I have no dog in this fight, but I am interested in hearing the whole story in the end.

What is known is:
The OP was correct in the suits being pulled
What were once tagged as GF suits had the tags removed and now they simply state "Hand Tailored in the USA of Imported Fabric"
BB has some fully canvased Made in China suits
MG makes a nice suit and they actually make the MTM

We don't know who BB bought the GF suits from, if they were made in China (or anywhere else for that matter) if they were represented as made in the USA at some point (I can't see that BB would have knowingly had their top of the line suits made in China). What don't know the exact issue with the GF suits that had the tags removed.

My guess is we will never know.


----------



## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

DorianGrey said:


> A few weeks ago I walked in to my "local" BB store and found a wonderful sportcoat - fully canvassed (I am 100% positive), beautiful construction and hand. I asked the sales associate (one who I know and trust) if this was a GF item because it was so well constructed. He said it wasn't but it was a new line made in the USA. I assumed Southwick. I looked at the tag - MADE IN CHINA! We were blown away.
> 
> I do not mean do defame BB or insinuate any shady business practices in any way, shape, or form, by the way. I love the company and its products. BTW - I bought the made in China sportcoat


Wait a minute.... BB sells a lot of stuff that is labeled "made in China, Mexico, Israel, and others labeled Imported". The SA even said it *WAS NOT* a GF item. So we're right back where we started. Nothing indicates the GF line is made anywhere but the USA. There must be another reason.


----------



## Steve Smith (Jan 12, 2008)

To clarify one point, has anyone here actually seen a made in China Golden Fleece *suit*? I have handled a heck of a lot of Golden Fleece and I have not seen one.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Steve Smith, if I read that post correctly, the conjecture was that some GF suits were _labeled_ as USA-made, but were, in fact, made in China. I have no idea if this is correct, and express no opinion on the likelihood of it; merely clarifying how I read the theorizing (which was presented as such, and _not_ as fact, before someone starts throwing around the d-word).


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

mrp said:


> Having read TG's email to you, I would not say that he answered any questions directly, other than the company manufactures the MTM items and he is personally unaware. I don't think it has been ruled out that said company may have something do with the items yet (IE farming work out).


My reading of the quoted e-mail is that they have had nothing to do with GF for at least a few years. My understanding is via the word *"**only."
*


----------



## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

CuffDaddy said:


> Steve Smith, if I read that post correctly, the conjecture was that some GF suits were _labeled_ as USA-made, but were, in fact, made in China. I have no idea if this is correct, and express no opinion on the likelihood of it; merely clarifying how I read the theorizing (which was presented as such, and _not_ as fact, before someone starts throwing around the d-word).


I hope we can sort this out. My GF is supposedly English Cavendish fabric, and it is some of the worst fabric I've ever felt; wonder if that is part of it as well.....

Have we gotten an answer from BB about this? Maybe Andy can reach out to them?


----------



## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

Flanderian said:


> My reading of the quoted e-mail is that they have had nothing to do with GF for at least a few years. My understanding is via the word *"**only."
> *


From my view you are reading into more than was stated.
"My company has only manufactured Made to Measure clothing for them for the past few years."

This is a simple statement and I have no reason to doubt it. The statement does not exclude a multitude of other possibilities, as nothing was stated in regards to them.


----------



## 1WB (Sep 25, 2008)

Some Greenfield-made GF suits of at least a few years ago were tagged as Cavendish fabric. Cavendish is not, obviously, a well-known suiting fabric firm (I think you Google the name, it comes up as furniture fabric).


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

arkirshner said:


> Until a few years ago they did. I did not realize they had stopped until hearing from Mr. T Greenfield.. Apparently others here were not aware either.
> 
> Botton line is:
> 
> ...


Indeed, one right doesn't excuse his wild accusation. I gave him a chance to explain and he hasn't. His attitude was the biggest reason for the suspension though. No one, especially someone with under 10 posts who we barely know, should demand ass kissing for their "service". If he continues to be a problem after his infraction has expired we'll deal with it accordingly.


----------



## KenCPollock (Dec 20, 2003)

This is my understanding based on looking at the suits in the Atlanta store 1-2 times per month for the last 10 years and having bought several MG GF suits as well as one GF "Regent" suit there: MG has not made any new OTR GF for BB in about the last 1 1/2 years. He still makes their MTM stuff. The GF line for the last 1.5 years had been made by Southwick, but it had less handwork in the collar than the MG line did and had machine made buttonholes. BB has pulled them, but apparently will later again stock Southwick GF suits, upgraded, with more handwork. The "Regent" GF line, made in quite small quantities (and priced at $2,400) for about 2 years, and also dropped about a year ago, was made by Caruso. All of the Caruso stuff and some of the Southwick GF suits were made of the "Cavendish" fabric.


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Steve Smith said:


> To clarify one point, has anyone here actually seen a made in China Golden Fleece *suit*? I have handled a heck of a lot of Golden Fleece and I have not seen one.


Nope. Just slacks.


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

+1 Never seen a Golden Fleece suit that sports a "Made In China" label.

OTOH, I have a Golden Fleece cashmere sport coat that was made in China (and is clearly labeled as such). The quality of construction is absolutely top-notch. It's one of the nicest pieces I own, from any manufacturer.


----------



## Feisfrum (Jul 28, 2005)

Racer said:


> +1 Never seen a Golden Fleece suit that sports a "Made In China" label.
> 
> OTOH, I have a Golden Fleece cashmere sport coat that was made in China (and is clearly labeled as such). The quality of construction is absolutely top-notch. It's one of the nicest pieces I own, from any manufacturer.


I have in the flagship store n NYC


----------



## clothingconnoisseur (Oct 9, 2005)

I was in the flagship store on Madison and 44th last week and the salesman told me that all Golden Fleece will not be made in Italy - no Golden Fleece in the store now but coming in 2 weeks. Does anybody know who the manufacturer is?


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

clothingconnoisseur said:


> I was in the flagship store on Madison and 44th last week and the salesman told me that all Golden Fleece will not be made in Italy - no Golden Fleece in the store now but coming in 2 weeks. Does anybody know who the manufacturer is?


Southwick, which is owned by BB.


----------



## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

Again, Brooks Brothers makes a crappy suit. Now, for years this particular product does not compete with Hickey Freeman/HSM/Samuelson/
Southwick quality is down from 30-40 years ago.
Again, why pay Brooks Brothers prices, if you do not know who made it, if it is fused. Especially after the past 2 years. Brooks Brothers suits, have been iffy.
With the recall, the change in suitmaker.
Why?? When you can have a better suit in the above, Oxxford, even foreign. Canali is a better product, much better.
I have talked about this, because I find it depressing, the crap they put out, and the money it charges.
Is it coming to the point, just like the BS issue, people will pay money just to have this product?
My first suits were about the same time as Ken Pollock here.
We know what changed, we saw it.
My friends, Joe Banks does a better RTW suits than Brooks Brothers.Brooks does not appeal to me at all. I, when in the city, walk right by them and brouse elsewhere.
I know it has garbage. All of it is garbage.
My friends, open your eyes


My friends, put this thread to rest, look outside, do not shop Brooks brothers, or Ben Silver for that matter as well

Nice day


----------



## clothingconnoisseur (Oct 9, 2005)

nolan50410 said:


> Southwick, which is owned by BB.


Southwick makes thier suits in Italy? I was not aware of this but interesting.


----------



## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

clothingconnoisseur said:


> Southwick makes thier suits in Italy? I was not aware of this but interesting.


Nope, Italians make their suits at Southwick. They own it.


----------



## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

clothingconnoisseur said:


> Southwick makes thier suits in Italy? I was not aware of this but interesting.


I think you missed the word NOT in there somewhere.


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

DukeGrad said:


> My friends, Joe Banks does a better RTW suits than Brooks Brothers.


False.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

DukeGrad, I must also respectfully disagree with you on that. Even the 1818 suits are superior to JAB's "Signature Gold".


----------



## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Racer, Jovan

A wisguy stab with Joey Banks.
Just trying to give insight to the current status of Brooks Brothers suits, and quality.
Especially with other better out there.
Not Joey Banks, I take it back.
I actually could blame my altzheimers on this one, oops, I FORGOT! LOL
You 2 enjoy the day
Nice day friends
Jim


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Nothing like a little hyperbole to rouse up a clothing forum. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## BorderBandit (Apr 16, 2011)

Bumping this thread up a bit simply because I've got anecdotal experience with the argument. Originally posted to another thread (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...ged-Labels-on-a-Brooks-Brothers-Golden-Fleece) but I cross-posted it here.

Again I don't consider myself an expert on suits in any regard, but I do know what to look for. So my comparisons below are simply my opinions, but maybe they can shed a (little) more light on things.

"Very interesting discussion going on in that thread. Well, it just so happens that I happened to buy a Martin Greenfield suit via another online find. Not quite as good as a price as the Brooks Brothers suit, but considering the markdown, still a good deal. For the sheer two cents I can give on this the quality apparent between the two suits is night and day. The Martin Greenfield has, for lack of better words, a luster and sheen to the fabric, a much better hand, and the quality of details like stitching, buttons, etc. are superb. If this grey Brooks Brothers suit was done by Greenfield then I can anecdotally (and no further) say that yes Mr. Greenfield was putting in lesser work. However, if this was by Southwick as claimed by others then it would...make more sense? I'm not sure where to conclude with this other than I think I did receive one of the infamous recalled Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece suits. The lack of quality non-withstanding, it's still a great deal on a better suit than you can get OTR and I'm happy with it. I guess then if anyone does care, these suits are being sold off slowly but surely and can be picked up for a steal if one is so inclined.

Originally Posted by *AMProfessor* https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?p=1445637#post1445637 
My guess is that this suit did start out as a Golden Fleece, but was one of the ones recalled by BB. See this thread:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/f...Fleece-Suiting

One might speculate that they didn't want the GF label on a suit going to discount stores that may have some quality issues, so they replaced the label with a generic BB label. All things considered you probably got a great deal."


----------



## Hard2Fit (May 11, 2005)

Bumping this thread. Does anyone know who now makes the BB GF 'Made in Italy' suits? I see one online I like...


----------

