# Length of break with a loafer and slacks/suit



## SW100 (Oct 31, 2004)

Apologies if this has been covered extensively (searched but could not find) and if I'm in the wrong forum...

I've been thinking about wearing my RL cordovan loafers with dress slacks and suits. I normally only wear them with chinos but recently have considered wearing them with a suit I've just bought. The suit trousers have a full break and as a result I don't think they look good with the loafers. This led me to ponder what the accepted "rules" are with suits and dress slacks...full, half or no break?


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

This definitely has been covered, but I think you'd find the general consensus around here is that people prefer no break or a very slight break. I doubt many in this part of the forum would like full breaks, but there may a few folks.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

SW100 said:


> Apologies if this has been covered extensively (searched but could not find) and if I'm in the wrong forum...
> 
> I've been thinking about wearing my RL cordovan loafers with dress slacks and suits. I normally only wear them with chinos but recently have considered wearing them with a suit I've just bought. The suit trousers have a full break and as a result I don't think they look good with the loafers. This led me to ponder what the accepted "rules" are with suits and dress slacks...full, half or no break?


 Traditionally, loafers are not worn with suits. There are a few British non laced shoes that have been, and still are worn with suits.

The following is from an old John Lobb catalogue:

Notice that it has all the characteristics of a laced bal brogue except the laces. When worn, the visible part of the shoe, the toe and vamp extending from the pant leg look to an observer the same as a laced brogue.

The same principles apply to modern offerings:

https://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catal...shoes/Brogueelasticsides/elastic_brogue_1.htm

https://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catal...shoes/Brogueelasticsides/elastic_brogue_2.htm

https://www.johnlobbltd.co.uk/catal...hoes/Elasticoninstepshoes/Raywood/raywood.htm

The suit is the garment worn by men that is associated with achievement. It is formal, (in the sense of "dressy", not white or black tie). On the other hand, the loafer is informal. Traditionally they are worn, as you do, with chinos and nothing more formal than a blazer or sport coat. Even the monk shoe, which is more formal than the loafer, is characterized as an informal shoe.

Yes, a few men have worn bit loafers or tassel loafers with suits. Memories of the greed is good Wall Street of the 80's are still with us. Some quite respectable men have worn "penny loafers" with suits, even though they are even less formal than the tassel loafer.

Traditionally a suit is worn with a laced shoe of about the same level of formality as the suit.

This is not to say you cannot, or should not wear loafers with suits, any man may do as he chooses. It is simply out of the mainstream of Anglo-American tradition of dress.


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## dparm (Nov 18, 2008)

Correct, loafers are typically not worn with a suit. Tassel loafers maybe.

Loafers are inherently casual, suits are not.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

I am among the many men in this region who wear tassel loafers with suits frequently. The break is the same for them as for all my suits, indeed all pants with a front crease. The bottom of the trouser should touch the top of the shoe enough to "break" the line of the crease, but not enough to puddle around the shoe.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
+1. Amen and amen!


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

To split the difference, I wear loafers with a poplin or seersucker suit in the summer. The suits are pretty relaxed, and rumpled. No jarring note of informality when a viewer's gaze gets to the feet. 

Little or no break, but that's my default position on all trousers and shoes.

Never tassels, though, I loathe tassels.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Wouldn't the break of the same pair of dressier trousers be different for loafers than, say, a pair of wingtips?


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

arkirshner said:


> Traditionally a suit is worn with a laced shoe of about the same level of formality as the suit.
> 
> This is not to say you cannot, or should not wear loafers with suits, any man may do as he chooses. It is simply out of the mainstream of Anglo-American tradition of dress.


Funny you put it this way. I passed through a wedding party at Harbour Town on Hilton Head last May. It seemed pretty upscale, based on the clothing and hardware that was seen driving up. The guys' suits were great, lots of navy and navy pin sacks. However, a huge percentage of the men sported "loafers," including tassels and even, egads, PENNYS. Surnames indicated it was a pretty "Anglo" wedding. The footwear certainly didn't measure up to the suits, yet South Carolina seems to be one of the epicenters of traditional dress. I am not sure that a mainstream of trad American dress even exists, at least not without a ton of exceptions. FWIW, I often do George-Bush-disparaged Alden tassles with suits, but no pennys.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

In Georgia wearing loafers with a suit is not unusual. Based on my observations I would not be surprised if a good many of the lawyers, bankers and judges around here even own a pair of lace up shoes. Maybe different in some high powered Atlanta circles.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

eyedoc2180 said:


> Funny you put it this way. I passed through a wedding party at Harbour Town on Hilton Head last May. It seemed pretty upscale, based on the clothing and hardware that was seen driving up. The guys' suits were great, lots of navy and navy pin sacks. However, a huge percentage of the men sported "loafers," including tassels and even, egads, PENNYS. Surnames indicated it was a pretty "Anglo" wedding. The footwear certainly didn't measure up to the suits, yet South Carolina seems to be one of the epicenters of traditional dress. I am not sure that a mainstream of trad American dress even exists, at least not without a ton of exceptions. FWIW, I often do George-Bush-disparaged Alden tassles with suits, but no pennys.





Dragoon said:


> In Georgia wearing loafers with a suit is not unusual. Based on my observations I would not be surprised if a good many of the lawyers, bankers and judges around here even own a pair of lace up shoes. Maybe different in some high powered Atlanta circles.


I do not doubt or quarrel with your description of current practice. I do not mean to compare loafers to Big Macs but that McDonald's is the favourite American restaurant does not mean it is traditional cuisine. Tradition on Sundays in Europe meant going to church. Currently only a small percentage of people in Europe continue that tradition while a large percentage of Americans continue with that tradition. Traditional Anglo American men's dress developed between the world wars, and one of the standards of that tradition is that suits are worn with laced shoes.

Every man has the right to eat or not eat Big Macs, attend or not attend church, and wear or not wear loafers with suits. My point is simply that tradition and practice are not always synonymous.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Around here I think they hand out tassel loafers with the certificate stating you passed the bar exam


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

In America, wearing pajamas to court is not unusual, so I'd be cautious about following the herd unless the head elephant clearly knows what he's doing.

As for break, in a perfect world, I would have more break when wearing loafers, which tend to show more sock than lace-up shoes (at least, mine do). I'm probably in the minority here, though.



Dragoon said:


> In Georgia wearing loafers with a suit is not unusual. Based on my observations I would not be surprised if a good many of the lawyers, bankers and judges around here even own a pair of lace up shoes. Maybe different in some high powered Atlanta circles.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

I was responding to eyedoc's anecdote about South Carolina and meant to imply that it might be a regional kind of thing.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Understood, and no offense intended. It's just that so often folks say, well, I saw Johnny do it, why shouldn't I, when, in fact, Johnny should not be doing it. I stipulate to utter ignorance when it comes to what is acceptable in the South.



Dragoon said:


> I was responding to eyedoc's anecdote about South Carolina and meant to imply that it might be a regional kind of thing.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Loafers and suits are a mix of different level clothes in the same league as jeans and pinstripe jacket IMO. 

With the right suit, sure, with many business suits probably not. Sure, lots of people do it, but it is dressing the suit down.


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## SW100 (Oct 31, 2004)

Thanks for all the replies so far - we've discussed the question mainly in the context of suits and indeed whether or not it is even appropriate to consider loafers with a suit. But what about dress slacks/flannels...the middle ground if you like between chinos and suits?

For example, another dilemma i have concerns a pair of flannels that I need to get hemmed. If I wear the flannels with my usual chunky shell wingtips a fuller break would look ok but again I'd like the flexibility of wearing the penny loafers with them. But I feel if I go with less break to accommodate the loafers then I'd need to narrow the leg opening of the flannels a touch because I definitely do not like wearing loafers with any trousers that have a wider leg opening. I feel wider trousers can "drown" a loafer and throw the balance off...especially if the vamp of the loafer is short. The chinos I wear with the RL pennies are all narrow opening with no break and this looks great but how to translate to dress slacks is another matter all together...thoughts?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

You have a problem common to all endeavors, trying to make one thing serve two purposes. You can taper your pant legs anyway you choose, but you can't have an opening both wide and narrow at the same time. I'm afraid you will have to get two pairs of pants or choose a compromise width.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

I sense a sartorial business opportunity: Velcro trouser seams. First fifty members to PM me can get in on ground floor...



arkirshner said:


> You have a problem common to all endeavors, trying to make one thing serve two purposes. You can taper your pant legs anyway you choose, but you can't have an opening both wide and narrow at the same time. I'm afraid you will have to get two pairs of pants or choose a compromise width.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

I usually wear laced shoes with business suits. That said, in the US tassel loafers and bit loafers have been worn by well-dressed men with business suits for decades. Penny loafers less so, unless it is a more casual suit such as poplin or seersucker. In today's more casual environment, many men who wear suits stand out as non-conformists -- sad but true. For these men wearing appropriate loafers with suits may serve the sensible purpose of dressing down the suit a bit.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Mike Petrik said:


> I usually wear laced shoes with business suits. That said, in the US tassel loafers and bit loafers have been worn by well-dressed men with business suits for decades. Penny loafers less so, unless it is a more casual suit such as poplin or seersucker. In today's more casual environment, many men who wear suits stand out as non-conformists -- sad but true. For these men wearing appropriate loafers with suits may serve the sensible purpose of dressing down the suit a bit.


Well struck, Sir! This is my take, as I do appreciate the formality of the lace-up. Suits are great because my color vision has trouble matching jacket and pants! That said, suits are appreciated by patients, as I am not a white-coat kind of guy. Alden tassels take the daytime formality down a notch.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

xcubbies said:


> Wouldn't the break of the same pair of dressier trousers be different for loafers than, say, a pair of wingtips?


Excellent point and the answer would be yes. Anytime you wear a pair of shoes sporting soles and heels of a different heighth or thickness than a particular pair of trousers was hemmed for, the break will be different...slightly so, perhaps, but different!


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> Excellent point and the answer would be yes. Anytime you wear a pair of shoes sporting soles and heels of a different heighth or thickness than a particular pair of trousers was hemmed for, the break will be different...slightly so, perhaps, but different!


Not only the variable break, but some shoes catch the cuff to an annoying degree, like one of my monks. This might seem a little goofy, but I adjust the braces holding up a good pair of suit trousers. It gives a half inch or more of flexibility in either direction. OK, I didn't say it was a GOOD idea.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

eyedoc2180 said:


> Not only the variable break, but some shoes catch the cuff to an annoying degree, like one of my monks. This might seem a little goofy, but I adjust the braces holding up a good pair of suit trousers. It gives a half inch or more of flexibility in either direction. OK, I didn't say it was a GOOD idea.


Sir, you are a modest man. Please allow me, IT IS A GOOD IDEA.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

arkirshner said:


> Sir, you are a modest man. Please allow me, IT IS A GOOD IDEA.


LOL, paranoia strikes deep. I feared a diatribe along the lines of "that will make the crotch hang too low," or the like. Thank you. This feature is one of beauties of the suspender.
:icon_cheers:


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