# Cummerbund, Vest, or Nothing



## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Now that I'm officially in the market for a tux and its various accessories, I'm curious as to the overall preference of AAAC members. What does everyone prefer to cover one's midsection when wearing Black Tie: Vest, Cummerbund, or Nothing (i.e. just the shirt and jacket)?

While I'm aware that the "Nothing" option is considered blasphemy by many members (as discussed in other threads), it also seems that there are a fair number of members on here who either rock the double breasted jacket, or are just young (like me) and are a bit skeptical of both the vest and the cummerbund, particularly considering that the style (at least in the U.S.) seems to be moving in that direction. _See_ George Clooney, Brad Pitt, Daniel Craig, GQ, _et. al_.


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## mczewd (Jul 21, 2008)

I have always had a similar question in my mind ever since seeing Sean Connery wear a tuxedo in Dr. No sans cummerbund or vest.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Daniel Craig in a cummerbund:
https://www.blacktieguide.com/Supplemental/Hollywood/daniel-craig-2009-oscars20.jpg
Brad Pitt in a cummerbund:
https://www.blacktieguide.com/Supplemental/Hollywood/2007_Oceans13_Cannes_peoplesdaily.jpg
and a vest:
https://www.blacktieguide.com/Supplemental/Hollywood/brad-angelina-a-mighty-heart-premiere-29.jpg
Note how sloppy the man on the right looks--shouldn't have skipped the cummerbund.
Here's Hugh Jackman in a vest for good measure:
https://www.blacktieguide.com/Supplemental/Hollywood/jackman_yahoo_cropped.jpg

The low-cut vest is the older option, and sharper. The cummerbund is a fine thing, though, especially with warm weather black tie.

In my experience, GQ has roughly two pieces of bad advice for every one of good advice. This page is full of abominations GQ recommended in years past:
https://www.blacktieguide.com/Vintage/Retro.htm

"I'm a young, modern guy" was the same rationale offered for the frilly shirt and powder-blue jacket, if I recall correctly. Skipping the waist covering cheapens black tie. Not subtly, like a notch lapel, but dramatically. With jacket unbuttoned, it reveals wrinkled shirt, making the ensemble look less polished. Buttoned, it reveals a flash of shirt below the button, breaking up the line and making you look shorter. Simply put, it's not something well-dressed men do.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Unless . . .*

. . . as OP pointed out, one wears a DB DJ


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

As I know you have cummerbund phobia let me at least state that there are really really terrible vests out there that cover an alarming amount of your shirt and while they may be favored by prom "tux" makers they are a disaster. If you go the tux route get a traditionally cut vest.

As for Hollywood dont take your Tuxedo cue from them, with the exception of a few they tend to mangle it pretty badly.

If nobody has posted this link yet, please go here for a crash course:

https://www.blacktieguide.com

and also see this page in particular:

https://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic_Components/Waist.htm


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Blueboy1938 said:


> . . . as OP pointed out, one wears a DB DJ


Dammit, I was thinking that the whole time.ic12337:


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## tda003 (Aug 16, 2009)

I let the weather and my mood dictate. However IMHO, what passes for a formal wear vest now really just isn't. A tux vest is NOT a suit vest. It should be cut low to expose more shirt. I got mine years ago from BB - atraditional black w/ lapels to match the jacket lapels. For a little more splash there are formal waistcoats w/ some elegant designs and of course colors in vests & 'bunds.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Really depends on what type of DJ you wear. I prefer an evening waistcoat TBH as it looks more substantial. Has to be low-cut, etc of course. As for cummerbunds, I was lucky enough to obtain a vintage one that is made of pure silk ottoman which looks 100 times better than the modern satin/barathea varieties.


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## Phileas Fogg (Oct 20, 2008)

Well, I have a bit of almost everything, as I have two cummerbunds (a vintage one belonging to my grandfather and a modern one, rather basic, but practical) and two waitscoats (both modern, a white RTW and a black one made with the dinner jacket).

With a black dinner jacket I prefer the waistcoat with the white jacket (here close to the Equator) I prefer the cummerbund.

In my opinion the "nothing look" looks really bad.
Yours,

Phileas Fogg


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

I go with a waistcoat unless I happen to be in a particularly hot country, in which case I swap it for a cummerbund. I'd never do without one or the other. It just looks sloppy, whether on me, you, or Hollywood celebrities.


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## Dingo McPhee (Aug 13, 2009)

I voted for vest, but really my vote should be "not nothing." Either vest or cummerbund, it's up to your preference.


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## hip_priest (Jan 22, 2008)

I prefer a waistcoat.


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

Waistcoat or cummberbund; I prefer the former, some like both (colder months - waistcoat, warmer months - cummerbund; or just rotating).

Nothing is not an option, otherwise you will be like to many people who under or over-dress for black-tie events.


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## Bradman (May 28, 2009)

I vote for having both a cummerbund and a vest. Wear whichever one you are in the mood for at the time.
On the off chance that you elect to go no vest or cummerbund, I would say the only way to pull this off is with a fly front shirt. Standard tux shirts only have 4 studs and the 5th button will show above your waist. This was the look Daniel Craig sported in Casino Royale.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I have said in the past that I think the cummerbund is on it's way out. More and more men in the U.S. are omitting this item from their tuxedos. I have one but I don't have a lot of love for the thing.

As for the vest, I've always liked vests for both casual and dressier wear; however, I don't like the low cut vests that are for wear with a tuxedo. I've tried to warm up to them but I can't get past the fact that I think they are silly looking.

I guess my vote is for nothing. 

Cruiser


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

I never thought I'd say this but I'm with Cruiser on this one.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

> ...the "Nothing" option is considered blasphemy...


It's not blasphemy, it is a requirement that the waist be covered on formalwear. The only choice is which of three acceptable methods.

The waistband of formal trousers *must always be covered*! From the practice of wearing the jacket of White Tie open, and also that the formal shirt has a pleated front (to the waist only, so that it doesn't buckle when you sit down). 

This must be "hidden" at the waist and is always covered!  The choices for this "cover" are cummerbund (has nothing to do with holding up your pants), a vest or a double breasted dinner jacket which is never unbuttoned in public!


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*What if . . .*



Andy said:


> [A]lso that the formal shirt has a pleated front (to the waist only, so that it doesn't buckle when you sit down). [/FONT]


. . . I have a shirt with pleats to the tail - which I do? It really doesn't "buckle" when I sit down, which is about the only time my DJ is unbuttoned. When I am seated, it's really unlikely that anyone can tell whether I'm wearing a cummerbund or not. Naturally, a waistcoat is more obvious, but its absence isn't.

Now, I'm all for the wearing of cummerbund or waistcoat with a dinner suit. I'm afraid, however, that with the trend to install satin waistbands on formal trousers, Cruiser's prediction of the cummerbund's demise is probably pretty prescient for the general tuxedo-wearing public.


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## vwdolly (Sep 26, 2009)

I must say from a ladies perspective there is something about a well fitted double breasted that just looks especialy smart, so i vote DB or SB with waistcoat :icon_smile:
Denise


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

If / when I put together a black-tie rig (maybe the year after next), I'll probably go for a waistcoat - but a low-cut one.

It seems that at least mid-chest cut is best if the waistcoat isn't white. I've seen some higher-cut white ones that didn't look bad - but in colour I feel it tends to look more like a suit (which might be the appeal for some people since they might be more familiar and more comfortable with business attire).


I'm not a huge fan of the cummerbund. It might be useful for warmer climates, but I just don't really like how it looks. Probably too many high-school prom nightmares.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Sufferable Fob said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the cummerbund. It might be useful for warmer climates, but I just don't really like how it looks. Probably too many high-school prom nightmares.


The last bit is the silliest argument against the cummerbund I've heard. I was the only man I saw in a (black) cummerbund at my senior prom. Rental shops have been pushing the high-cut vest and matching necktie icon_headagainstwal) for a while now. The brightly-colored matching cummerbund and pre-tied bow tie set, of course, deserves all the slander it gets.


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

amplifiedheat said:


> The last bit is the silliest argument against the cummerbund I've heard. I was the only man I saw in a (black) cummerbund at my senior prom. Rental shops have been pushing the high-cut vest and matching necktie icon_headagainstwal) for a while now. The brightly-colored matching cummerbund and pre-tied bow tie set, of course, deserves all the slander it gets.


I only went to prom... two or three years ago and I don't remember that.

I remember pastel suits being a fad again.

And one couple did the "duct tape" thing.

And my mom thought I looked silly in a bow tie.


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## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

vwdolly said:


> I must say from a ladies perspective there is something about a well fitted double breasted that just looks especialy smart, so i vote DB or SB with waistcoat :icon_smile:
> Denise


QED - the lady has spoken :icon_smile_big: - what better endorsement could you want?

Seriously, if you have a problem with a cummerbund (and I don't understand why anyone has an issue with a traditional black one) go DB and forget the whole issue. As Andy says, a single breasted dinner jacket without a vest or cummerbund is incorrect.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

I still wear my cummerbund with a DB jacket.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

I have two wasit coats one from my SR tailor with a full back and the front is cut low similar to the officers mess dress. The second one is a backless model from BB which I bought many years ago. Plus I have two cummerbunds. It generally depends where we are going and the weather as to what I will wear. As Cruiser says it seems that the cummerbund is slowly being left off. At a recent BT function here in Florida most men wore only their jackets. All my dinner shirts extend below the waist. I pefer a low cut vest so that my studs can be seen.


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## Floatinjoe (Feb 14, 2005)

I really like the look of the rounded waistcoat that Brad Pitt is wearing in the images linked above (from Black Tie Guide). Does anyone know where to locate one? I can only find the traditional "V-shaped" waistcoats.

Mike


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## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

KenR said:


> I still wear my cummerbund with a DB jacket.


Ok by me - makes sense if you plan to take your coat off.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

amplifiedheat - Good photos. Here's how they look sans waistcovering, with Matt Damon thrown in for good measure.










I'm sure everyone is familiar with Daniel Craig's look in Casino Royale, wherein he also rocks a tux without a cummerbund or waistcoat.

I'll agree that Jackman looks pretty sharp in a white vest and black tux. Here he is without.


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

Yeah, and sans waistcovering they look sloppy.


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## tda003 (Aug 16, 2009)

I've been trying to find a a truly diplomatic way of phrasing this this, but, (heavy sigh) just am unable to do so. The lack of a waist covering on formal wear just looks "common". Proper formal dress is the mark of a gentleman and is prescribed. When one decides to change that set of rules, he doesn't appear to be a trend setter, but rather one who either is ignorant of the rules or one who chooses to deliberately ignore them. The rules are simple: cumberbund, vest or db. The tie is bow the vest is low cut (stylized if you will) and either full or cut away in the back (much more cumfortable in warmer climates.

Cumberbunds and vests go "in" and "out" of fashion in order to bolster sales in the formal wear retail and rental markets. How else to companies keep $ fllowing in?

It's more interesting to show your sense of style w/ accessories, e.g. studs, different bow tie styles, etc. It's a classic outfit.

IMHO (again), more is gained by buying an excellent tuxedo, weel cut of fine materials and having it perfectly tailored and wearing it properly.

That's it. Soapbox in kindling.


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## tda003 (Aug 16, 2009)

Follow up. As a personal note, amy, many years ago (over 40), as a very young man, and before the name was much known in the USA, I had a dinner jacket w/ a "Nehru" collar built for me by Brioni. By the time I took delivery, everybody was wearing Nehru jackets and it went straight to a thrift store. Never wore it past the final fitting. So much for my foray into trendy formal wear.


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

Are you sure that's without waist-covering ?



Brad Pitt has a cummerbund. Clooney at least seems to have the faked trouser-band.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Sufferable Fob said:


> Are you sure that's without waist-covering ?
> 
> Brad Pitt has a cummerbund. Clooney at least seems to have the faked trouser-band.


Looks like you're right on Pitt. I certainly wouldn't call the satin waistband on Clooney's trousers a waistcovering, though. It's just pants with a satin waistband, and (based on many responses) doesn't count.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Jake1990 said:


> Yeah, and sans waistcovering they look sloppy.


Interesting that, apparently, Pitt was wearing a cummerbund, but still falls into the sloppy category.

(Sorry for the double post...)


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

While it "doesn't count" as a proper waist-covering, I think it looks better than nothing at all - at least in that it might temporarily confuse someone enough to think he's actually wearing a waist-covering (like I had guessed in the cropped picture).



Brad Pitt's people hit the mark (minus oddly skewed shirt, which is oddly skewed in every picture).

George Clooney's people seem kind of confused, like they don't realise he's old enough to try the "classic" look with little fear of alienating fans (I'm still not a fan of the notch lapel here, and notice who has pocket square).


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Mr. "I'll get $15K per flick whether you like my tux or not"*



Sufferable Fob said:


> Brad Pitt has a cummerbund. Clooney at least seems to have the faked trouser-band.


Clooney also appears to be wearing an ordinary dress shirt showing five buttons, _sans_ studs


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm going to provoke the ire of just about everybody here, but I rather like the '60s look of a shawl collar dinner jacket without cummerbund. In my opinion, it looks better when the jacket is closed and trousers are high -- not that low rise business from Tom Ford. (Which Pitt thankfully covers up.)

IIRC, shawl/roll collar is traditionally accompanied by a cummerbund, where the peak/pointed lapel goes with the low cut three or four button waistcoat.

Clooney's slowly learning. He looks a lot better in his recent shawl and peak lapel jackets than he did in that two button notch. Add a pocket square and different shirt and he'll kill the ladies all over again in his middle age.


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

sko said:


> Interesting that, apparently, Pitt was wearing a cummerbund, but still falls into the sloppy category.
> 
> (Sorry for the double post...)


...kind of assumed you meant the ones not wearing waistcoverings. I've yet to see a photo (though I'm sure I'll now be provided with some) of Pitt wearing anything else but classic, and very tasteful, black tie.


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

Hugh Jackman - your black vest or maybe cummerbund is showing










Daniel Craig is that a cummerbund I see at the 2009 oscars?


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Jackman has a waistcoat. You can just see the slight V-shape. 

DC is in cummerbund. If he wasn't then there will be a little triangle of white cropping up.


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Cummerbund = Mr R Bucket or should I say Bouquet


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

How so?


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Cummerbund for me.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Jake1990 said:


> I've yet to see a photo (though I'm sure I'll now be provided with some) of Pitt wearing anything else but classic, and very tasteful, black tie.


Per your prediction...










In a long tie (the appropriateness of which I'm sure has been/could be another entire thread)

Rocking a DB jacket, presumably with nothing around the waist, though this is still considered classic and correct, from what I'm understanding.


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

sko said:


> Per your prediction...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DB's equally classic yeah. And the long tie doesn't require it's own thread. It's just wrong.


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

I hate to pop this thread back up but I did want to point out that even in the fashion world of Esquire magazine their fashion director basically says "Wear the damn cummerbund"

https://www.esquire.com/style/ask-nick/wear-a-cummerbund-1009


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

deanayer said:


> I hate to pop this thread back up but I did want to point out that even in the fashion world of Esquire magazine their fashion director basically says "Wear the damn cummerbund"


And in another issue he wrote in favor of the pre-tied bow tie. :icon_smile_big:

Actually I enjoy reading what Nick has to say each month.

Cruiser


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

Floatinjoe said:


> I really like the look of the rounded waistcoat that Brad Pitt is wearing in the images linked above (from Black Tie Guide). Does anyone know where to locate one? I can only find the traditional "V-shaped" waistcoats.
> 
> Mike


I saw one while browsing around at E&R's website :

Not exactly the same, but it's something - and as they do MTM/bespoke - they would most likely be able to do whatever you wanted (for a price).

I've seen them occasionally on eBay, but not fantastic quality.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

deanayer said:


> I hate to pop this thread back up but I did want to point out that even in the fashion world of Esquire magazine their fashion director basically says "Wear the damn cummerbund"
> 
> https://www.esquire.com/style/ask-nick/wear-a-cummerbund-1009


This is the issue I have with Esquire. What Nick says and then what they show.


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## Floatinjoe (Feb 14, 2005)

Sufferable Fob said:


> I saw one while browsing around at E&R's website :
> 
> Not exactly the same, but it's something - and as they do MTM/bespoke - they would most likely be able to do whatever you wanted (for a price).
> 
> I've seen them occasionally on eBay, but not fantastic quality.


Thanks for the link. That looks good. Now just to find the one that says me.


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## raumil (Jan 10, 2009)

Vest...all the way.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

sko: What dinner jacket style are you considering?


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

My waistcoat and cummerbund:


Vintage wool barathea with modern silk grosgrain lapels.


Vintage silk ottoman with ribbon ties.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Jovan said:


> sko: What dinner jacket style are you considering?


I'm currently leaning towards a shawl collar.


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## caligula455 (Jun 3, 2009)

i think vest hands down, it's that little bit extra to really pull the look together. do cover your waist with something though.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

sko said:


> I'm currently leaning towards a shawl collar.


Then definitely get a cummerbund for that.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*I have to disagree.*



Jovan said:


> Then definitely get a cummerbund for that.


There's nothing that I'm aware of that prohibits wearing an appropriate waistcoat with a shawl collar, and I have done so on many occasions. Moreover, the OP is rabidly opposed to a cummerbund, so why suggest that?

It seems to me that, whatever collar style coat one selects, the best remedy for someone opposed to wearing either a waistcoat or a cummerbund is to get a DB DJ and avoid the whole issue, entirely.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Slow down, sparky. I wasn't prohibiting anyone from doing anything, merely suggesting.

The shawl collar looks more relaxed than peak. The waistcoat looks stricter than a cummerbund. Thus, the shawl+cummerbund look better together, just as do the peak+waistcoat. Just look at the pictures of Jackman, Pitt, and Craig. It shows how well the appropriate waist coverings complement the style of lapel.

I wasn't aware sko was "rabidly" against the cummerbund. He seems to equally disfavour a waistcoat.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm a bit more amendable to the vest option than a cummerbund. If there were some rule stating that cummerbunds go with shawl collars and vests go with peak lapels, I'd rather do a peak/vest combo than the shawl/cummerbund. From what I've read, it's more a stylistic choice, not a black tie rule.

It's my understanding, however, that a low cut vest (not the ridiculous prom vests) goes pretty well with a shawl collar tuxedo. If the shawl collar evolved from smoking jackets, men would have been wearing vests with the jackets most of the time anyway, wouldn't they?

Anyway, this has been discussed previously. I'm currently thinking shawl collar single breasted jacket and a low cut vest, but when I actually start finding pieces and trying them on, maybe I'll change my mind.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Oh, please*



Jovan said:


> Slow down, sparky. I wasn't prohibiting anyone from doing anything, merely suggesting.
> 
> The shawl collar looks more relaxed than peak. The waistcoat looks stricter than a cummerbund. Thus, the shawl+cummerbund look better together, just as do the peak+waistcoat. Just look at the pictures of Jackman, Pitt, and Craig. It shows how well the appropriate waist coverings complement the style of lapel.
> 
> I wasn't aware sko was "rabidly" against the cummerbund. He seems to equally disfavour a waistcoat.


You're speaking in formularies, again. Peak + waistcoat = more formal ∴ shawl + cummerbund = less formal. You're also wringing out semantics ∴ I'll have to be less emphatic in my choice of wording in future, I guess.

Actually, we're all trying to be helpful, clearly. My suggestion would sidestep the waist covering issue in a perfectly natural and elegant way, disposing of the need to spend money on either additional option.

As it happens, a "starter" double-breasted DJ at Jos. A. Banks is at the same price as an SB, on sale as we speak:

https://www.josbank.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_11001_10050_101491


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## johnpark11 (Oct 19, 2009)

I like nothing and let the tux be the main attraction. Look at Daniel Craig in Casino Royal; at times he has a cummerbund at times not. Vests are for weddings IMO


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## Phileas Fogg (Oct 20, 2008)

^ Actually for weddings there are those things called morning coats, which surely need a waistcoat and never ever take a cummerbund, but this is a completely different thing.

As for the shawl-peak waistcoat-cummerbund mix, we could argue that the smoking jacket (ancestor of the dinner jacket) had a shawl collar and was worn with the waistcoat of the evening dress. I would say that nowadays it is just a matter of personal preference.

The only thing that really looks bad is an uncovered waist with perhaps the addition of a big metal belt buckle (downright ghastly).
Yours,

Phileas Fogg


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## caligula455 (Jun 3, 2009)

johnpark11 said:


> I like nothing and let the tux be the main attraction. Look at Daniel Craig in Casino Royal; at times he has a cummerbund at times not. Vests are for weddings IMO


Daniel Craig is literally chiseled from steel and had very carefully tailored pants and still looks disheveled without a waist covering.

i think if you want the jacket to be the focus you need to prevent that glaring horizontal line of white shirt and black pants which both cummerbund (and even more so) a waistcoat softens.

6 button vests are definitely not for black tie anything.


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

In what way does a cummerbund prevent "that glaring horizontal line of white shirt and black pants", whatever that may be?


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Let's look at it this way. Modern trousers are cut far too low to the point that it looks rather saggy and even when you button up, there is that white triangle of shirt that creeps out. The 'bund and the vest covers the trouser waistband and raises the level to the point where there is balance and elegance.


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## caligula455 (Jun 3, 2009)

culverwood said:


> In what way does a cummerbund prevent "that glaring horizontal line of white shirt and black pants", whatever that may be?


for one, it raises the waist line to right below the gorge of the jacket. for two, its thickness and texture make for a softer appearance. look at blacktieguide.com a the examples of well dressed and poorly dressed celebrities, you will see what i mean.

but you're right, a waistcoat does a better job.


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## tda003 (Aug 16, 2009)

It's pretty much the wearer's call on vest vs. cumberbund. However, "nothing" should be reserved for DB. If one chooses a vest, then matching it to the DJ collar makes most sense to me, e.g. shawl to shawl or peak to peak. Scallopep looks more pleasing to my eye, but I'm not the last word in that. Some creativity in waistcoat is fine to me, as is bow tie style, although the width (breadth) is important to complement the face of the wearer. It's a rule I went by when I was regularly dressing for events (2-3 times/mo in season) and never got a complaint.


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## Portly_polar_bear (Oct 15, 2008)

For all this reactionary talk against 'formularies' the cummerbund does go rather well with a shawl collar. The waistcoat goes very nicely with a peak lapel.

These 'rules' are just someone writing down what is apparent to anyone with a sense of style. They're useful to the rest of us who wouldn't know a stylish suit from a hessian sack. That is to say they exist for a reason. If you're confident enough in your sense of style then you will happily flaunt the rules and still look great. 

"Don't wear white socks with black trousers" -- you are free to ignore this rule, but you do so at your peril. An extreme example but you get my gist. :icon_smile_wink:


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

Portly_polar_bear said:


> For all this reactionary talk against 'formularies' the cummerbund does go rather well with a shawl collar. The waistcoat goes very nicely with a peak lapel.
> 
> These 'rules' are just someone writing down what is apparent to anyone with a sense of style. They're useful to the rest of us who wouldn't know a stylish suit from a hessian sack. That is to say they exist for a reason. If you're confident enough in your sense of style then you will happily flaunt the rules and still look great.
> 
> "Don't wear white socks with black trousers" -- you are free to ignore this rule, but you do so at your peril. An extreme example but you get my gist. :icon_smile_wink:


Quoted for truth!


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## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

Personally, I also think that one's physique has an impact as well. I couldn't tell you why, but I've always felt that those with a little padding up front (myself included) look better in vests. The cumberbund seems to accentuate it, maybe by not distracting the eye with the 'V'? I'm not sure, but until I lose some weight, I think I'll be leaving the cumberbund in the closet.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> Let's look at it this way. Modern trousers are cut far too low to the point that it looks rather saggy and even when you button up, there is that white triangle of shirt that creeps out. The 'bund and the vest covers the trouser waistband and raises the level to the point where there is balance and elegance.


This is true. You can barely tell Sean Connery is going without a waist covering in the early Bond movies unless he happened to unbutton his jacket. The trousers are long enough in rise that there is continuous black from the waist button down to the shoes. That seems to be the most elegant way to go about it.


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## Mr. Walter Trent (Jul 21, 2009)

*Seconded*



David V said:


> Quoted for truth!


Late to the party, but a strong shawl collar and cummerbund vote here.

I can't really understand why there has been a turn away from the cummerbund.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Cumberbund.


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