# Most Over-Hyped Brands



## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

I was recently in Harrod's looking at shirts, I took one glance at some of their offerings like Stefano Ricci, didn't see anything exciting and kept looking. I was absolutely dumb-founded to find out a few days ago that the Stefano Ricci shirts were £429, and they didn't really strike me as anything special. The whole brand has a Las Vegas pit-boss vibe to me.

That brings me to my question, what are the most over-hyped brands you can think of?

The ones that come to mind for me are:

-Stefano Ricci (some shirts look too mafioso to be taken seriously)
-Armani Collezioni (you already know)
-Artioli (I like exotic skinned stuff, but it seems too 1970's pimp-ish)
-Billionaire Couture (when I saw their showroom in Harrod's, I thought it was supposed to be an ironic display)


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

i know i would be lynched for this, but i think Edward Green is overhyped on these fora.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Lattanzi -- ugly as sin, so ugly that it does not matter how well made they might be.

I know, I know -- beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

qwerty said:


> Lattanzi -- ugly as sin, so ugly that it does not matter how well made they might be.
> 
> I know, I know -- beauty is in the eye of the beholder.


So I gather you don't own a pair of the nifty little number Silvano is holding in his hands on his homepage? :icon_smile_big:


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Hahahaha. No!


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

Brian13 said:


> i know i would be lynched for this, but i think Edward Green is overhyped on these fora.


Overhyped in what way? Are you suggesting that you think EG are over-priced?

(getting rope..and trying to recall how to make that hangmen's knot..:icon_scratch: )


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

omairp said:


> -Billionaire Couture (when I saw their showroom in Harrod's, I thought it was supposed to be an ironic display)


I'd never heard of Billionaire Couture. After seeing their website, I think it's supposed to be an ironic joke:

https://https://www.billionairecouture.com/

Will anyone admit to buying something from them.

Sadly they are not in the US yet.

It seems like if ever there was a brand that should be in Las Vegas, this is it.

As to the OP. I'll take the poor boy route and say that Armani and Versace are way overhyped. Yes, I know they are known to be crap, but there is good old solid crap like Hugo Boss and Kenneth Cole, and there's overhyped crap like Armani and Versace.


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## Nick (Jan 16, 2005)

Polo is an over-hyped brand.

When I was a boy it (particularly Ralph Lauren?) was still something a bit special, a quality product. They were known for never going on sale; in fact, I think they were once sued by some retail groups for refusing to allow sales.

Now? A shop in every mall and a anchor product in every discount clothing center.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

Brian13 said:


> i know i would be lynched for this, but i think Edward Green is overhyped on these fora.


What would you recommend instead with EG money?


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

Brian13 said:


> i know i would be lynched for this, but i think Edward Green is overhyped on these fora.


I'm also inclined to think Edward Green is not as great as everyone here thinks. I went to their store and their factory, and I just didn't get it. For the money, I'd much rather have John Lobb's.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

I have to agree with Polo and Armani. RLPL is not bad but spendy.


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

kiton - i think is over rated yes the fabric feel nice but are they really worth the money?

another i think is LV esp here in asia and prada is going form bad to worse in fact most of the big brands are over rated but this is because of they marketing!


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

I just realized Crockett & Jones Handgrades also belongs on this list. I love their benchgrades and have a few pairs. But in Northampton I met a Nigerian guy at the factory who was nice enough to give me a ride to A&G Martinstone and Burlington Arcade where he was also buying a few pairs of C&J's. He was a pretty regular C&J customer, so I asked him what objective reason there was to pay 50% extra for handgrade's, he just looked at me and said "For the snob factor." :icon_smile: Some of their designs are slightly nicer than benchgrade, but at full RRP, it's ridiculous.


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## jojo (Mar 28, 2007)

rnoldh said:


> I'd never heard of Billionaire Couture. After seeing their website, I think it's supposed to be an ironic joke:
> 
> https://https://www.billionairecouture.com/
> 
> ...


It's not a joke, it is quite literally a clothing line for the new breed of tech millionaires who have more money than they could ever spend and enjoy buying stuff that noone else could have.


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19388728/site/newsweek/


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

jojo said:


> It's not a joke, it is quite literally a clothing line for the new breed of tech millionaires who have more money than they could ever spend and enjoy buying stuff that noone else could have.


Have you ever met one of these tech millionaires, or know of one that posts on AAAC.

The very famous tech rich like Gates, Allan, Ballmer, Ellison, Brin, Paige, Jobs, etc., seem very laid back and I couldn't imagine them in the flashy stuff shown on the Billionaire Couture website.

I suppose there many tech millionaires I'm not aware of, but I wonder if there are enough to support a concept like this.

I guess it might be like a Bijan for the new Millenium.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

jamgood said:


> www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19388728/site/newsweek/


Interesting article. I was surprised to see Zegna being held up as a defender of the "made in Italy" movement. I have Zegna Sport jeans and shirts which are all made in Romania, and a pair of Z-Zegna dress pants made in Mexico. Nowadays, I really don't care where the garment is made as long as it's made well. I had Michael Kors sport shirts when they were made in Italy, and got some when they moved production to China, and the quality actually went up!


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

All the designer brands (D&G, Armani, Etro,Thom Browne, Tom Ford, YSL, Dior Homme....) in my opinion, defines overhype.


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## duster (Dec 25, 2003)

rnoldh said:


> Have you ever met one of these tech millionaires, or know of one that posts on AAAC.
> 
> The very famous tech rich like Gates, Allan, Ballmer, Ellison, Brin, Paige, Jobs, etc., seem very laid back and I couldn't imagine them in the flashy stuff shown on the Billionaire Couture website.


I do know one of the tech half-billionaires, as it happens; and you couldn't meet anyone who dresses less pretentiously. He dresses more or less the way he dressed as an undergraduate forty years ago. When he travels abroad, he goes by train. He's a great fellow, besides.


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

*Hype*

Bash the designer labels all you want, but on these fora, over the years, I would say the holy trinity of hype are:

1. Darren Beaman suits
2. Carlo Franco ties
3. Vass shoes

(I own and like products from makers 2 and 3, I just don't think that they are up to the hype)


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

MarkusH said:


> Bash the designer labels all you want, but on these fora, over the years, I would say the holy trinity of hype are:
> 
> 1. Darren Beaman suits
> 2. Carlo Franco ties
> ...


You actually got delivery  ?


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## william76 (Aug 11, 2006)

MarkusH said:


> Bash the designer labels all you want, but on these fora, over the years, I would say the holy trinity of hype are:
> 
> 1. Darren Beaman suits
> 2. Carlo Franco ties
> ...


I've heard you say this about Vass on several occasions. What brings you to this opinion? Just curious.


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## mannaman (Aug 26, 2005)

Pretty much every brand that is discussed here is overhyped in a way. Take Kiton for instance. Of course a unique brand, great quality, unique in every way. But still overpriced, living from the fame that some celebs wear it to the Oscars. If you go to Napoli, you'll find tailors that make a bespoke suit for the same money, same cloth, same quality, but bespoke. Or Brioni or Bottega Veneta. Overhyped means "we reached our goal" for the marketing managers. Because they can charge prices that do not reflect the value of a product. Vuitton, Hermes, EG, John Lobb, all these brands try to balance the hype and the sustainability of their success. But they sure live from the hype. 

What separates the wheat from the chaff is the ability to extend a "hype" or a certain image. Hermes is certainly a company with tradition and more style than Prada or Gucci. But it's still a hype. 

There are some that really only live from a short hype, take 7 for all mankind. My god, it's a pair of JEANS! Charging a couple of hundret bucks for a jeans only works temporary.


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## mannaman (Aug 26, 2005)

By the way: I think Billionaire couture is owned by Flavio Briatore, a formula one manager who knocked up Heidi in the pre-Seal era. He is really ridiculous. A guy that hangs out at St. Tropez clubs with topless young chicks who are just trying to squeeze out some cash. Of course he thinks he is damned hot. An akward little dude. 



That is him!
Was für eine Wurst


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

mannaman,
You should be seriously punished for posting that second picture. Where are the moderators when we need them?


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

> Nowadays, I really don't care where the garment is made as long as it's made well.


+1.

I do often see a correlation between Made in Italy and good quality.


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## jsherman02 (Oct 9, 2006)

D Squared, Armani, Versace, etc. all over hyped.


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## asaffi (Jun 14, 2005)

You're going to flame me for that, but I'd say...Barbour. It just looks cheap! cheap!


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

asaffi said:


> You're going to flame me for that, but I'd say...Barbour. It just looks cheap! cheap!


I won't bash you for that - although I like their products, I tend to agree.

I have a Border waxed coat that I wear constantly and give a ton of use to when walking and training my German Shepherd. It is perfect for the bad weather, I never have to worry about the messing it up, and it has held up incredibly well.

Now, I didn't pay full price for it and got it on sale, but it's the kind of thing I might buy even at full price.

However, there are a ton of other good producers who make waxed jackets as well - usually for less than Barbour - Kakadu, Oxford Blue, and a couple of other Aussie companies whose names escape me along with John Partridge who is about the same or more expensive than Barbour. Even Polo puts out these sorts of jackets pretty regularly and I've gotten a couple on sale for 50 dollars or so.

I also have 2 quilted jackets that I got from Sierra trading post, but the quality/finish of those jackets is nowhere near what would be full price for them. At 20-30 dollars from Sierra trading post, they were excellent purchases, but at full price they would have been regrets for me.

If someone wanted the same type of English styling and a better quality, I'd probably point them toward John Partridge as I've been very, very impressed with the waxed Partridge coat that I have.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

No. 1 on my list: DOLCE & GABBANA.

If a girlfriend of mine starts bugging me with this sort of stuff => immediate termination


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## Andre Yew (Sep 2, 2005)

Kiton and Borrelli.

--Andre


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## upthewell10 (Apr 3, 2005)

I have to disagree about Barbour. I think Barbour offers some great value for money, especially the waxed jacket. I also have a quilted jacket which I love and a couple of cheaper items (socks, scarves, gloves, etc.)

My family owns about 10 waxed jackets from the last 25 years, in various styles, all of which still get some use. I recently re-waxed a jacket that has to be at least 20 years old (I found one of my grandfathers decaying cigarettes in the pocket), its as good as the day it was purchased, and its age gives it some character; its been on countless driven shoots, no doubt.

That said, Barbour has to be one of my favorite brands, and I don't think they're over-hyped at all. In fact, I think most of their products offer terrific value for money.


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## nikwik (Oct 29, 2005)

upthewell10 said:


> That said, Barbour has to be one of my favorite brands, and I don't think they're over-hyped at all. In fact, I think most of their products offer terrific value for money.


Hear, hear!

Have a lot of Barbour-garments and so far the only ones that have let me the down are the shirts (Two tattersal-shirts shrunk so now I stick to Cordings...). My Border-jacket has been a very faithful friend through several trips to Scotland (and in the distant times when you could carry more than 10 ml liquid on the plane I once had 5 bottles of fine Islay single malt in the pockets. The security staff looked quite amused when I put the jacket in the x-raymachine...).


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

Two of the worst offenders in my book are Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger.


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

*Undoing the ponies*

It's hard to say what it signifies, but there are a fair number of guys that post here that want to know how to remove the embroidered pony without destroying the garment.

Apparently you can't.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Bonhamesque said:


> Two of the worst offenders in my book are Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger.


+1 So true.


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

How about the brioni tie?


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

shirtguy said:


> How about the brioni tie?


And the Brioni suit as far as I'm concerned.


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

My question was is it worth the money based on the fact that they are classics and make nice knots


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## cuffthis (Jul 13, 2004)

Tommy Hilfiger. Simply nothing more than RL ripoffs.

And you guys lay off RL. He has helped to maintain looks and styles that we all love that would have easily disappeared without his marketing and advertising genious.


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## jsherman02 (Oct 9, 2006)

cuffthis said:


> Tommy Hilfiger. Simply nothing more than RL ripoffs.
> 
> And you guys lay off RL. He has helped to maintain looks and styles that we all love that would have easily disappeared without his marketing and advertising genious.


Wasn't Tommy (the man) an employee for Ralph? Maybe that is where he "borrowed" his ideas.


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

cuffthis said:


> Tommy Hilfiger. Simply nothing more than RL ripoffs.
> 
> And you guys lay off RL. He has helped to maintain looks and styles that we all love that would have easily disappeared without his marketing and advertising genious.


Agree.

With TH, I do have 2 polos that I got on sale for 10.00 each that I like, but everything else I've ever purchased there has left me disappointed. Usually the styles are too garish for me to want to purchase them in the first place.

RL's stuff might not always be what it is cracked up to be, but I still LOVE his suits particularly the old "made in the USA" blue label ones. I have a ton in the closet, they have worn like iron and still get compliments everytime I wear them due to their classic cut and style.


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## aportnoy (Sep 12, 2005)

Andre Yew said:


> Kiton and Borrelli.
> 
> --Andre


Quoted for truth. Sadly I've (over)invested in both brands.


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## jsherman02 (Oct 9, 2006)

I would like to add Rolex if I may. VERY over-hyped!


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## kshah (Oct 30, 2006)

Everyone mentioned the usual suspects. For underrated, I'd stand by Isaia and Pal Zileri.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Not a pal of Pal but I like Isaia still you get more handwork at that price from Oxxford. :devil:


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Hermes!


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

There used to be something called "Countess Mara" ties. Uniformly and unbelievably ugly, usually with a big logo stuck right in the middle. Screamed "no taste," and yet I understand people at some point paid big bucks for such schlock.

Hopefully they are bankrupt.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Countess Mara had some of the worst patterns and colors I have seen.

Ties to wear in Florida with Sansabelt pants, white belts, and white shoes.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

Artisan Fan said:


> Countess Mara had some of the worst patterns and colors I have seen.
> 
> Ties to wear in Florida with Sansabelt pants, white belts, and white shoes.


So true.... or ties Carson Kressley would tie around his belt loop.


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

Chris Rimby said:


> I've heard you say this about Vass on several occasions. What brings you to this opinion? Just curious.


The finish of the shoes (seams, brogueing) is far from that of JL.


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

rkipperman said:


> You actually got delivery  ?


I did. I purchased the tie from Chuck at the Sartorial Excellence event in NYC. I also had a very good conversation with Chuck. It is certainly a great tie, but I do not consider it worthy of the following it had on these forums back in those days.


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Charvet. Nothing special - very special prices.


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## charle22 (Feb 20, 2004)

Zegna and Isaia MTM garments are overrated.


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## satorstyle (Jan 2, 2007)

Bijan


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## Zubberah (Sep 29, 2003)

Don't think Kiton and Borrelli are at all over-hyped. Not even on this BB.

Personally, based on this BB I would definitely include Edward Green, Oxxford and John Lobb as over-hyped.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

MarkusH said:


> The finish of the shoes (seams, brogueing) is far from that of JL.


Er, isn't Vass considerably less expensive than JL?


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Zubberah said:


> Don't think Kiton and Borrelli are at all over-hyped. Not even on this BB.
> 
> Personally, based on this BB I would definitely include Edward Green, Oxxford and John Lobb as over-hyped.


Lobb isn't my cup of tea, but I like EG and Oxxford. Borrelli shirts, IMO, are hugely overhyped. Nothing like paying Borrelli's price for a shirt with an inadvertently detachable collar.

I'll also add Etro to the list.


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

Zubberah said:


> Don't think Kiton and Borrelli are at all over-hyped. Not even on this BB.
> 
> Personally, based on this BB I would definitely include Edward Green, Oxxford and John Lobb as over-hyped.


I agree with, Doc.
I like Borrelli shirts, but they're not that special. Kiton has nice cloth and nice cuts, but they're overhyped and way overpriced. I also agree that JL classic line is not that impressive. I think, however, the prestige line is very nice. 
I'll take Oxxford over Kiton or Borrelli tailored clothes any day. Edward green makes shoes that fit my feet well, especially the 606, 202, and 82 lasts. So, I can't say they're too big for their britches.


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## arnach (Feb 3, 2007)

omairp said:


> I'm also inclined to think Edward Green is not as great as everyone here thinks. I went to their store and their factory, and I just didn't get it. For the money, I'd much rather have John Lobb's.


My first thought was to enter this thread and to record my vote for Edward Green, but I see others have beat me to it. I think that EGs and Lobbs are highly over-rated here and at SF. Granted, I have only seen the selection at NM, but the ones they carry look quite pedestrian and certainly do not seem worth the money. On the other hand, a pair of Vass gets my heart racing.

However, I believe the most over-hyped item out there (beating out Armani and the like) are Borrelli shirts. They use rough fabrics, the stitching comes loose, the sleeves unravel, the hand stitching makes the shirt look frumpy and unkempt, and the buttons continuously fall off. If you really need decorative hand stitching on your shirt to make your shoulders pucker, I suggest you consider a penis enlargement kit instead.


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## jcriswel (Sep 16, 2006)

*I feel compelled*

to comment on the discussion of Edward Green. They are expensive. They are discussed frequently on this forum. Outside of this forum, few know anything about the brand. They seem to have little advertising. Never seen an EG ad. Since joining the forum, I have purchased two pairs of EG shoes. They are heaven to me. I never thought anyone could make shoes like this. The fit is wonderful, the style is immaculate, and the exterier leather takes to a shine like nobody's business. These shoes are worth every penny. Overhyped? Hell NO!

jcriswel


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

i think steinway & sons pianos are overhyped. it's at every concert hall and taped performance.
although overhyped, not overrated.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Santoni Shoes, Edward Greens, G&G, Kiton, Borrelli.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

The Royal Oak Offshore by Audemars Piguet- specially the countless limited editions they churn out.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

iammatt said:


> Santoni Shoes,


awww cmon


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## MarkusH (Dec 10, 2004)

JLibourel said:


> Er, isn't Vass considerably less expensive than JL?


At European prices, yes. Vass are about EUR 500, where as JL are about GBP 600.

US prices are very close.


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## Alan (Jun 30, 2005)

Charvet
Hugo Boss


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## mannaman (Aug 26, 2005)

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> I agree with, Doc.
> I like Borrelli shirts, but they're not that special. Kiton has nice cloth and nice cuts, but they're overhyped and way overpriced. I also agree that JL classic line is not that impressive. I think, however, the prestige line is very nice.
> I'll take Oxxford over Kiton or Borrelli tailored clothes any day. Edward green makes shoes that fit my feet well, especially the 606, 202, and 82 lasts. So, I can't say they're too big for their britches.


I like Borrelli for their patterns, their nice buttons and for the story they tell around their shirts. Quality of the fabric? Oh my god. The collars do not last very long, the cuffs also suck. I own about 9 Borrellis and 4 of them already look "will it blend" ed. Yes, they will.

Pal Zileri is pretty good in my view. Hermes is of course overrated. But they offer a certain amount of exclusiveness with their products, same as brioni and others. People are willing to pay the extra dollar for the label. Even if they do not show it off to others. For me, it's a good feeling to know what I am wearing. That is the concept of luxury brands. Look at Bottega Veneta, they have no showing labels, still a succesfull brand. Because wearers know "I made it [al least to their outlet]"


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## mannaman (Aug 26, 2005)

jcriswel said:


> to comment on the discussion of Edward Green. They are expensive. They are discussed frequently on this forum. Outside of this forum, few know anything about the brand. They seem to have little advertising. Never seen an EG ad. Since joining the forum, I have purchased two pairs of EG shoes. They are heaven to me. I never thought anyone could make shoes like this. The fit is wonderful, the style is immaculate, and the exterier leather takes to a shine like nobody's business. These shoes are worth every penny. Overhyped? Hell NO!
> 
> jcriswel


Of course they are beautiful. But given the amount of manual labor, they are totally overpriced. Of course they are not comparable with Prada or Vuitton who spend millions to enter people's minds, but their target group is the satorial gentleman who is also willing to pay extra for the USP they offer. The group of shoe lovers with the extra knowledge on fine attire is rather small. An ad in GQ would not create enough revenue.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

From the Trad side I'd have to say that Brooks Brothers is over-hyped. We regularly carp about the decline of BB, yet we get positively gooey when BB throws us a bone in the form of an undarted jacket. Any objective examination of BB's actions over the past 15-20 years should conclude that the glory days are over; the fans have trouble accepting this.

What's surprising to me is the failure of BB's marketing in failing to exploit the nostalgia; witness the photo of the sack jacket with the top button done up and - when the customer zooms in on the photo - a pin holding the lapel in (incorrect) place.


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## Rob Nicholson (Feb 22, 2007)

the interesting thing with clothing retail is: hype-is-marketing-is-sales-is-profit - thus companies hype their products for profits (every company regardless of who they are is after this) what matters really is perception and quality . 
quality - in that is the product over-valued (£300 for £25 quality worth) most "jermyn street" retailers (no-names) put a lot of effort into quality and compete with high street retailers who's value vs quality rating is lower yet have higher budgets allowing more profit and more marketing hype.
perception - in that what do you want to be seen wearing and by that have association with (what stereotype do you want to fit) billionaire couture is named after a nightclub so where do you think the association lies with?
much as i will never wear "labels" i will however at the weekend wear :aportnoy: vans trainers and such, as part of my bmxing heritage/lifestyle yet at work will wear lewin as its association is with quality, professionalism etc.

personally my favourite story of hype is 3 very rich sicilian kids who i knew, bought barbour wax jackets - because they were "the best english gentlemans jackets" - yet when it rained they didnt go to college as they "didnt go out when it rained" and werent willing to get their waterproof jackets wet


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## Rob Nicholson (Feb 22, 2007)

*possibly the most hideous line of clothing EVER!*

"Now comes the next piece of the billionaire lifestyle. Briatore is launching Billionaire Couture, a fashion line named after his nightclub. "I want people to be able to recognize a Billionaire Couture item immediately," said Angelo Galasso, who is designing the line with Briatore, in a media report. Translation: ostentatious wealth. There's talk of gold buttons on jeans, $500 shirts, and diamond and ruby-encrusted key chains."
pass the sick bucket.
i'm sorry but whether I where in Liverpool or in Kings Road, I'd hate that look and most other people would as well - most entertainment would be found in liverpool, lovely thieving scousers would have a riot!ic12337:


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## WhyMe (May 18, 2007)

1. Euro Trash labels: Prada, D&G, LV, GUCCI, Armani
2. I don't think EG is overrated. If GUCCI shoes cost $650, I think $900-$1000 for EG shoes is OK, IMO.
3. I think Ermenegildo Zegna is overrated. $2500 CAD for Zegna suit is bit too much.
4. Any shirt makers who make shirts that cost over $250.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

iammatt said:


> Santoni Shoes, Edward Greens, G&G, Kiton, Borrelli.


Matt, you told me that EG lasts don't fit your foot. Maybe that shades your view of the shoe? I find them very comfortable and well made.


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## culverwood (Feb 13, 2006)

Does hype depend on input from the manufacturer or can independent third parties hype?

The point has been made that EG and others such as my original suggestion Charvet spend next to nothing on advertising and rely on word of mouth. Now assuming we do not have planted members pushing the wares of a manufacturer for gain as they are employed by them how can the wide positive feedback about a company be hype? Perhaps herd instinct or peer pressure would be a better description of what is happening. 

I take it that any manufacturer who relies on a big advertising budget to persuade people to pay over the odds for average merchandise is hyping.


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

Rob Nicholson said:


> "Now comes the next piece of the billionaire lifestyle. Briatore is launching Billionaire Couture, a fashion line named after his nightclub. "I want people to be able to recognize a Billionaire Couture item immediately," said Angelo Galasso, who is designing the line with Briatore


Looks like they achieved their goal - the clothes are instantly recognizable.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Artisan Fan said:


> Matt, you told me that EG lasts don't fit your foot. Maybe that shades your view of the shoe? I find them very comfortable and well made.


One of the lasts fits, but I don't think the lasts are all that good looking, the stitching on the uppers never looks all that good to me and I am not a big antiquing guy. They just don't seem that good to me and not $1k good for sure. I guess I would say that they are a really nice five-foot shoe but not a great one-foot shoe.


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## NewYorkBuck (May 6, 2004)

Hermes ties. They are nice, but not worth the price. IMO, VV sells a comparable product at 50% less. In fact, I recall Hermes defending its skimpy shell with the claim that "We want you to feel that you're not wearing a tie." Right. Except for the fact that the feeling that you're wearing a tie comes from the tension and the knot under your neck, not the negligible weight of the tie. Actually - thats marketing at its best - take a cost cutting measure and sell it as a virtue.


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

"Over-hyped" seems to mean the brand that one doesn't like.
Nevertheless, Edward Green shoes are often referred to, but are so hard to find that I have yet to come across a pair. Guess I'll have to book a flight to merry old London and see them for myself to determine if they are in fact over-hyped.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

kitonbrioni said:


> "Over-hyped" seems to mean the brand that one doesn't like.


When I posed this question, I meant over-hyped in the sense that you hear all these incredible things about a brand, and get all excited about it, but when you finally see the product for yourself, you're pretty disappointed.

I just thought it would be interesting to pose this question because on this forum, most members like to talk about how great all these brands are, and I was curious to see if it was really all that unanimous. I've read the posts on this forum for awhile, and thought I had a pretty good understanding of the pecking order of certain brands, particularly British clothing brands because I went to the UK on vacation recently. Some suggestions lead me right to the source of some of the nicest clothing I've ever seen. But there were times when I would walk into a fabled store and ask myself "Am I in the wrong place?"

I don't want anyone to think their favorite brands are being bashed by this thread, unless your favorite is Billionaire Couture :icon_smile_big:. I own clothing from a fair number of manufacturers who are on this list, but I don't take it personally, just as another person's opinion that I'm interested in hearing.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

WhyMe said:


> 1. Euro Trash labels: Prada, D&G, LV, GUCCI, Armani
> 2. I don't think EG is overrated. If GUCCI shoes cost $650, I think $900-$1000 for EG shoes is OK, IMO.
> 3. I think Ermenegildo Zegna is overrated. $2500 CAD for Zegna suit is bit too much.
> 4. Any shirt makers who make shirts that cost over $250.


 Finally! I was beginning to feel left out.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

"4. Any shirt makers who make shirts that cost over $250."

Not sure if this was made in jest or not, but it does remind me of an important point. I have this watch repair shop I have used since I was a child. The owner has a little sign in his shop that says $7 minimum with this explanation, and I am paraphrasing:

"Customers will say why $7? All you did was tap the little hammer for one second and the watch was fixed. Ah, yes, but I spent years learning exactly where to tap the hammer so that the watch would be fixed, not broken worse."

I remember helping a "Friend" a few years back, who could not afford to pay an attorney, with his legal issues. I assisted him gratis. After spending a few weeks working on his paperwork, it was submitted. The end result was he received total benefits of more than $400,000.00! He also receives a pension worth a little over $5000.00 per month, more than he made when he was working, as a result of my efforts. He is now retired at age 50, thanks to my help. 

He bought a new boat, motor home, jacuzzi, re-paved the driveway to accommodate his new toys, and paid off his house, all with the money I obtained for him. After a long discussion with his wife, he told me, they decided that they wanted to give me $100 to thank me for helping them. An attorney would have gotten at least $100,000.00, but I got $100.00! 

People tend to devalue anything that they do not do themselves. When they do it, of course, it is worth a kings ransom. How many people have the skill to make a Kabbaz shirt, for instance? How many years went into learning how to make the shirts? How many hours goes into each one? What is the cost of the materials? The facilities? The equipment? The utitlities? Employee salaries/benefits? 

It is much like the $7 minimum charge of the watch repairman. Not really meant to be supportive of Alex, rather, just a general thought.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> Finally! I was beginning to feel left out.


He wasn't referring to any shirts over $750. :devil:

:icon_smile_big:


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

whomewhat said:


> "4. Any shirt makers who make shirts that cost over $250."
> 
> Not sure if this was made in jest or not, but it does remind me of an important point. I have this watch repair shop I have used since I was a child. The owner has a little sign in his shop that says $7 minimum with this explanation, and I am paraphrasing:
> 
> ...


i would have throttled him.
make him buy you a car.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Brian13 said:


> i would have throttled him.
> make him buy you a car.


I would have sued him for non-payment of professional fees.

My guess is that Alex experience in creating a perfect fit may well justify what he charges. He seems to have a happy clientele.


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## beerbudgetchampagnetastes (Oct 30, 2006)

Of brands that i have experienced Hugo Boss is absolute junk.

I bought a cashmere/wool/silk roll neck (on sale) as a trial to see if i could wear one without irritating my neck, as i may look at purchasing a quality cashmere one in the future. Occassionly i have to work where the wind is bitterly cold. I wear it under a sweater and jacket. I knew it would be rubbish but didn't think it would fall apart after half a dozen wearings!

Guess it served it's purpose, my neck didn't get irritated.

Of brands that i have looked at, but would never purchase, Versace, D&G, Paul Smith & Gucci look like cheaply made, over-priced crap.


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## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

Armani, Ralph Lauren (the entire range, now.Who are they making this stuff for?) and Edward Green & Alden. Sorry fellows, I'm a Crockett & Jones, Lobb man.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

> Sorry fellows, I'm a Crockett & Jones, Lobb man.


You don't know what you are missing.


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## donk93953 (Feb 8, 2007)

Artisan Fan said:


> You don't know what you are missing.


I've tried the Alden's. I've discussed them already on this forum. Very disappointed.
I've had Crockett & Jones and Lobb custom making shoes for me for many years. Edward Green styles are just not my cup of tea. 
My dos centavos...


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## Cravate Noire (Feb 21, 2007)

Haha, Flavio Bratore's BC...I think only people who lack any bit of humour wouldn't start loudly to laugh if anyone would try to convince them that this crap is actually made to be worn in public (as a fetish it is understandable of course).
I mentioned that some time ago in another thread, but when I was at Harrod's at the entrance to the BC store was a sign where they asked you to enter only with a salesperson...I could imagine many people would simply steal something for the next carnival party.

But I disagree on LV, they are jugded after the fake-o-mania mono canvas - some people simply forget about their beautiful leathergoods.
(btw. the mono canvas was a stripe pattern before which was again a greyish/tan unpatterend canvas before...both were faked more than a century ago, so they put their name on it - what worked in a time when the people had respect for names^^).


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

i agree on LV too. i love their leather goods especially luggage and women's handbags.

they arent cheap but they arent overhyped as well. the thing about their goods is (handbags both canvas and leather) that their prices go up each year , and they never go on sale. 
that is how their product always stay at a premium level the way they handle that company.
sure, there are plenty of imitations around. im talking about the authentic Louis Vuitton.


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## jdldore (Feb 18, 2007)

It's already been said, but I think most of the fashion house brands are overhyped, _viz_., D&G, CK, Hermes, Fendi, Armani, Boss, Balenciaga, CD, any brand available at bluefly.com. Note the positive correlation between hype and price. Among these, I save my second greatest disdain for Etro, which, in addition to being overhyped and overpriced, also seems to make the fugliest clothes on the planet.

The single most overhyped thing, though (at least in my opinion) is "fashion" denim. I was so shocked by my girlfriend paying $300 for a pair of jeans that I took a trip to Nordstrom myself to see what the fuss was about. I stopped in at the Rail and asked the salesman the difference between the $200 jeans he was selling and the Levis 505s I could (and, in the spirit of full disclosure, do) buy at Sears for $29. He explained that the jeans are handsewn and that no pair are identical. As an example, he took two pair of stone washed (or acid washed, whatever) jeans off the rack and showed me that there were very slight variations in the washing patterns. He then took two pair of another set and showed me that some the stitching on the back pockets (which, to me, was reminiscent of the Jordache of my pre-teen years) was very slightly different. I asked him why the handsewing was important in denim and he told me that each pair of jeans could last a lifetime. This begged and begat the question of whether he expected any of these jeans to be in style next season and he said no. He must have sensed my skepticism because he then said, apologetically, "look, man, it's fashion, this is what's hot right now." Stupefied, I stumbled back to Pulte home, put my hands on my granite-countertopped kitchen, made myself a Grey Goose voka and tonic, plunked down in my Aeron chair, and took a nice big swig from that lovely Bullet glass. (Was stumped by the chair brands.)


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

> I've had Crockett & Jones and Lobb custom making shoes for me for many years. Edward Green styles are just not my cup of tea.


If you are happy with C&J/Lobb then that's fine by me. Some don't like the style or lasts of EG but I find the quality of manufacture very high.


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## Cravate Noire (Feb 21, 2007)

> It's already been said, but I think most of the fashion house brands are overhyped, _viz_., D&G, CK, Hermes, Fendi, Armani, Boss, Balenciaga, CD, any brand available at bluefly.com.
> 
> The single most overhyped thing, though (at least in my opinion) is "fashion" denim.


Aboslute total agreement on the denim hype.
But I think Hermes doesn't fit in your list, IMO all the others are almost obscene concerning image and what they really offer if compared to Hermes.
It's almost a miracle to me that they sell almost everything from midget card-games to saddles and still seems to have kept something like quality and brand culture.


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## Harrydog (Apr 2, 2005)

jcriswel said:


> to comment on the discussion of Edward Green. They are expensive. They are discussed frequently on this forum. Outside of this forum, few know anything about the brand. They seem to have little advertising. Never seen an EG ad. Since joining the forum, I have purchased two pairs of EG shoes. They are heaven to me. I never thought anyone could make shoes like this. The fit is wonderful, the style is immaculate, and the exterier leather takes to a shine like nobody's business. These shoes are worth every penny. Overhyped? Hell NO!
> 
> jcriswel


*+1.....*


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

donk93953 said:


> Armani, Ralph Lauren (the entire range, now.Who are they making this stuff for?) and Edward Green & Alden. Sorry fellows, I'm a Crockett & Jones, Lobb man.


We all prefer one brand or another for sure. Crockett and Jones and Lobbs are very good shoes, there's no doubt about that. But to say one prefers one make over another doesn't necessarily mean the other make is overpriced junk - which I thought this thread was about! EG are very fine shoes indeed, easily as good as Lobbs IMHO - and are not overpriced when you think they employ about 50 staff making 60 shoes a week - I don't know how they meet their wages bill to be honest unless the crafts people are low paid - like £15000 a year - which in England you cannot live on without state benefits.

I do feel strongly though that Armani is absolute crap. I was looking at Armani jeans and cords 6 months ago and they wouldn't have looked out of place in a pound stretcher store, yet they cost £99! Give me Pakeman Catto and Carter any day! Another make I feel strongly about is Prada - their shoes are just junk. I love Church's and hope Prada leave them alone enough - at least at the moment they are letting the Church brothers run the business.

LM


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Anything J Press turns out. Havent been to the new store but the old one next to 346 brooks was like a funeral home. 

C&J shoes leave me wanting

MrR


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## clintonf (Apr 2, 2007)

whomewhat said:


> "4. Any shirt makers who make shirts that cost over $250."
> 
> Not sure if this was made in jest or not, but it does remind me of an important point. I have this watch repair shop I have used since I was a child. The owner has a little sign in his shop that says $7 minimum with this explanation, and I am paraphrasing:
> 
> ...


I just wanted to say that this was an excellent post, but for mainly for the reference to people appreciating knowledge and skill which may be provided to them for little or nothing by friends or family. Unfortunately, that's why people have to charge for their time. It's unfortunate, but often necessary.

I'm not sure which stuff is truly over-hyped. But I wonder whether some of the household names are really that good? I know people bash Armani, Gucci, et al and indeed they may not be worth half of what they list for, but what brand seriously is? I feel that you will find examples of over-hyped brands in all walks of life and some people will have good experiences of the brands, others not so good.

I own a lot of those over-hyped brands and i'm glad to say that i've not spent anywhere near what some of these clothes go for. However, they serve a purpose for me and will still allow me to dress fairly decently. However, i've learnt so much from forums like this so that if I buy over-hyped items, I know much more about what i'm getting for my money.

I may be talking in a manner which is unrelated to this thread, and please forgive me for that, but i'd like to know, how many of "us" on this site can (and do) explain to the "great unwashed" why what they are buying can tend to be expensive crap and why buying brand X (which most may not have heard of) is better for them in the long run than buying a brand that they associate with exclusivity and quality (Armani, Paul Smith, LV, Boss, etc...)?

Having said that, I think that Boss is crap, Armani Jeans and some other Armani brands are seriously overhyped. Versace is fairly over-hyped and over-valued. Paul Smith can be quite horrific in their hype (but not as bad as the rest). I'm hoping to get some more experience with other brands soon so that I can provide some commentary on them also.

Clint


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Leather man said:


> - and are not overpriced when you think they employ about 50 staff making 60 shoes a week -


I find this to be highly unlikely. You are suggesting that Green puts either 35 or 65 man hours into a pair of shoes (I don't know if you mean 60 shoes or 60 pair) which is quite difficult to imagine when you are talking about a shoe that is almost completely machine made. Estimates for the amount of time it takes for a handmade pair of shoes range from 30-50 hours.

I actually don't find the construction on Green shoes to be remarkable in the least. When compared to C&J Handgrade they are about equal, and when compared to Lobb they pale. When compared to equally priced Hungarian and Italian brands it isn't even close. I haven't seen the G&G shoes, but it sounds like they are also better.

Often we get comments on these boards like oh "they have great construction", what does it mean? Construction is how something is put together and when you are talking about upper stitching that is sloppy compared to Lobb and Vass, welting and soles done entirely by machine, sole treatment that is OK but not great and nice polishing, what part of the "construction" is so great? This is not to say that you shouldn't like them or that they don't use nice leather or that the lasts aren't fabulously elegant, but when compared to shoes like AE and Alden it seems like construction-wise the only difference is a closed channel.

A lot of the hyperbole that is used to justify choices that can better and more reasonably be explained by personal aesthetics is amusing... to say the least.

None of this is to say that they are not fine shoes, because they are. It is just to say that it is better to hold off on making up reasons to buy something that might influence other readers.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

> When compared to C&J Handgrade they are about equal, and when compared to Lobb they pale.


Matt, what do you think Lobb does different that is better?



> Often we get comments on these boards like oh "they have great construction"


My answer would be based on anecdotal evidence:
a. EG lasts very long so there must be good construction, even if done by machine. The feel of the shoe is akin to my bespoke pairs in many ways.
b. Maintains nice appearance over time. My EGs seems to polish back to a "like new" appearance even after years of hard wearing.

I think members of the various style boards make some experience-based observations since really good information about the real quality of construction is very hard to come by. I've yet to see a chart of 6 steps of making shoes and how each brand typically does each. The possibility exists that machine work may be better in some areas like it is on shirts and suits.

Maybe I need to do the Vass pair we talked about and see what I find there. C&J Handgrade is a possibility as well. I saw some up close at Ben Silver recently and liked them, especially an Albany model. I am less impressed with Lobb. They feel heavy on my feet. They do look nice.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Artisan Fan said:


> Matt, what do you think Lobb does different that is better?


My experience is really only with the Prestige line, but at minimum the upper stitching is cleaner and slightly smaller, the welts are better decorated/finished, the lining is nicer, the channeling of the soles is better done and lasts longer. Of course the waist is finished better as well, but that is a feature of the Prestige line so not really a fair comparison with regular EGs. In other words, other than antiquing, which is not construction, everything is done better by Lobb.



> My answer would be based on anecdotal evidence:
> a. EG lasts very long so there must be good construction, even if done by machine. The feel of the shoe is akin to my bespoke pairs in many ways.
> b. Maintains nice appearance over time. My EGs seems to polish back to a "like new" appearance even after years of hard wearing.


Well, Alden and AE last a long time as well, and unless you are talking about 20+ years, we aren't yet in the long time category. EGs do polish up nicely because they use a good quality leather. That has nothing to do with how the shoes are made, just what they are made from.



> I think members of the various style boards make some experience-based observations since really good information about the real quality of construction is very hard to come by. I've yet to see a chart of 6 steps of making shoes and how each brand typically does each. The possibility exists that machine work may be better in some areas like it is on shirts and suits.
> 
> Maybe I need to do the Vass pair we talked about and see what I find there. C&J Handgrade is a possibility as well. I saw some up close at Ben Silver recently and liked them, especially an Albany model. I am less impressed with Lobb. They feel heavy on my feet. They do look nice.


Not to go back in to the same discussion about hands versus machine again, but on handmade shoes all of the stitching on the uppers is done by hand. Using a machine on the welt and sole is a time saving device and does not add to quality, just like on a jacket stitching the long seams by machine makes sense, but doing the canvas on a machine is a time and money saver. So you are right, it is like a suit. Anyway, the question isn't about whether EG is better than a handmade shoe, just whether it is really and different than its brethren in ways other than styling and finish. I would say no.

On the other hand, you do make my point perfectly. Reviews from members about how comfortable a shoe is, how good it looks over time etc make a lot of sense. When they extrapolate into theories of construction quality it becomes hot air.

Again, there are a lot of reasons to buy EGs, but their superior construction versus those shoemakers within $500-$700 of them either way on the price scale is not really one of them.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Thanks Matt. I think we may have a slightly different opinion on the construction but I see your viewpoint better now.

The Edward Green Top Drawer is probably the better comparison with the Prestige Line of Lobb.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Artisan Fan said:


> Thanks Matt. I think we may have a slightly different opinion on the construction but I see your viewpoint better now.


No prob. I wish that you could explain what you mean by the second sentence, however.



> The Edward Green Top Drawer is probably the better comparison with the Prestige Line of Lobb.


I disagree. The Top Drawer is by order only and priced well above the Prestige line. I think that it is better compared to some of the special order only makers who mostly offer a product that is far superior to Top Drawer.

The Prestige is a RTW line and as such is more comparable to other RTW lines.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

All,

Some of you are going to hate me for that.

I think the notion of "over-hyped" is not so much a question of price but of the fuss that is made about a certain brand. The less the fuss is justified, the more over-hyped is it.

This is IMO particularly true about brands like D&G, Armani, Gucchi etc.. "Normal" people will be impressed if they find out that your suit is D&G. If it's Anderson & Sheppard, they might as well stare at you with a blank face.

Now, one of the most over-hyped brands on these fora is, in my view, Allen Edmonds. I have bought two of their styles: the full brogues in burgundy and the oxfords in black. Oxfords look just a touch too massive and are a little bit boring. The burgundy full brogues have a totally dull leather; I have tried to get it shining over the last three years BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE and it still looks totally dull. Bah. And I don't even like the (uninspiring) last any more since I own C&Js. Hence, I think all that praise about AE is really not quite justified. There are IMO better shoes at the same price point.

My two pence. Please disagree. 

Cheers,
A.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Albert said:


> Now, one of the most over-hyped brands on these fora is, in my view, Allen Edmonds. I have bought two of their styles: the full brogues in burgundy and the oxfords in black. Oxfords look just a touch too massive and are a little bit boring. The burgundy full brogues have a totally dull leather; I have tried to get it shining over the last three years BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE and it still looks totally dull. Bah. And I don't even like the (uninspiring) last any more since I own C&Js. Hence, I think all that praise about AE is really not quite justified. There are IMO better shoes at the same price point.


I think a lot of folks here would agree with your assessment of the styling. (Though, personally, there's a place in my wardrobe for a clunky, AE-style blucher the same as there is for a sleek bal.) The trouble arises when trying to find better alternatives at the same price point. AEs can be had all day for $80-$150, and the only alternatives that leap immediately to my mind are Loakes on sale at Tyrwhitt. I can see why some might prefer that aesthetic, but I can't say I consider them equal to AE in terms of quality. What do you have in mind?

Perhaps this is a matter of conflicting views from differing sides of the pond. I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for AEs in London. But here in the U.S., AEs can be a great value.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

DocHolliday said:


> The trouble arises when trying to find better alternatives at the same price point. AEs can be had all day for $80-$150, and the only alternatives that leap immediately to my mind are Loakes on sale at Tyrwhitt. I can see why some might prefer that aesthetic, but I can't say I consider them equal to AE in terms of quality. What do you have in mind?


DocHolliday,

I agree about the robustness. They certainly are long-lasting. In terms of alternatives, I know that C&Js at Plal cost around $300-350, if I'm not mistaken. However, you could get them at the factory shop for GBP 90 (i.e. c. US$ 180) and then have them shipped to the U.S. If you do it in a smart way, you might end up with US$ 200 a pair which I think is a better deal than $150 for an AE.

I don't know about the other re-packaged British brands, but I have, for example, a pair of essentially re-packaged British semi-brogues from some place in Northampton. They have hold up despite very heavy wear over the last six years (every 2nd day at the beginning as it was my first good pair of shoes).

Anything else you could think of?

All the best,
A.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Albert said:


> In terms of alternatives, I know that C&Js at Plal cost around $300-350, if I'm not mistaken. However, you could get them at the factory shop for GBP 90 (i.e. c. US$ 180) and then have them shipped to the U.S. If you do it in a smart way, you might end up with US$ 200 a pair which I think is a better deal than $150 for an AE.


If only someone would set up a business selling C&Js from the factory shop for only $225 or so U.S. But I don't think the C&J shop will do mail order, will it? For most of us Americans, the Plal price is the best that's regularly available. And even then, it comes with the risk of ordering shoes from overseas. Most folks here would have no way to try C&Js on before placing their bets, as it were. (Still, maybe this is a good business opportunity for you, Albert! You could do well just selling on SF, I imagine.)

Aside from Loakes, RM Williams boots can be a good value for us, coming shipped for $225 or so from an online seller. But in terms of what's available in the shops, there's nothing I consider the quality of AE available for less. The closest is Alden, which costs significantly more and is difficult to find on markdown. For most Americans, $100 is still a lot to pay for shoes, and there's nothing but AE to fill that "introductory" good shoe niche.


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## Cravate Noire (Feb 21, 2007)

DocHolliday said:


> I think a lot of folks here would agree with your assessment of the styling. (Though, personally, there's a place in my wardrobe for a clunky, AE-style blucher the same as there is for a sleek bal.) The trouble arises when trying to find better alternatives at the same price point. AEs can be had all day for $80-$150, and the only alternatives that leap immediately to my mind are Loakes on sale at Tyrwhitt. I can see why some might prefer that aesthetic, but I can't say I consider them equal to AE in terms of quality. What do you have in mind?
> 
> Perhaps this is a matter of conflicting views from differing sides of the pond. I certainly wouldn't pay a premium for AEs in London. But here in the U.S., AEs can be a great value.


Thank's for that statement! 
What would be a good value for Alden cordovans in your oppinion?
AE and Alden go here for premium prices as well, I wanted to buy some Alden suede tassels (which were on sale), but they hadn't my size in stock. Good luck for me I guess, later somebody told me that in the US they cost on full retail almost as much as my sale price would have been (300-330 in $).
(AE is with 360€ for calf and 450€ for cordovan also far away form the 80-150$, even if they would be on sale...).
So maybe the cocnclusion of the whole thing might be that American shoes in Europe and everything from Italy in the US is over-hyped in way, because of the different margins^^.

A note on the Lobb/EG discussion:
The same thing mentioned by jcrisjewel about EG I could say about JLP. Kind of my "entrance" in the world of really good shoes, and I'm still amazed by everything from style, feel, fit etc. 
The only thing that didn't feel well afterwards was the purse^^, but somehow I almost have intuitively the feeling that this is even at the retail price a good (and probably quite lasting) investment.


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## Panzeraxe (Jan 11, 2004)

jcriswel said:


> to comment on the discussion of Edward Green. They are expensive. They are discussed frequently on this forum. Outside of this forum, few know anything about the brand. They seem to have little advertising. Never seen an EG ad. Since joining the forum, I have purchased two pairs of EG shoes. They are heaven to me. I never thought anyone could make shoes like this. The fit is wonderful, the style is immaculate, and the exterier leather takes to a shine like nobody's business. These shoes are worth every penny. Overhyped? Hell NO!
> 
> jcriswel


+1

Overhyped to me means that the real value of a brand's products aren't worth the $$$. EG shoes are well worth $1,000. Also, for the record, JL Prestige shoes are close to $1,600, and the regular line shoes (at $1,000) are not as good as EG.

Matt - the Top Drawer shoes ordered direct from London cost 800 pounds (the same price as JLP). Also, I do not claim to be a shoe expert, but I own C&J Handgrade's, EGs, G&Gs and JLP shoes - the EGs remain my favorite for the elegance of the lasts and designs and their ability to look better than the other brands with age. 
I was also recently at the Cleverley store in London. One of their salesmen mentioned how, for the GJC RTW shoes, they asked C&J to improve upon their Handgrade line in an effort to hit EG levels.


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## alaric (May 23, 2005)

I would have to say, based on the price vs. actual worth, the most over-hyped brand is D.Squared. The best indication of this is that the fakes on eBay look at least as good as the originals and cost like 4-5% what the original does.

alaric


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## regularguy (Jul 27, 2007)

I don't think I'm qualified to say "overhyped" about any brand, since my personal experience with a handful of products might not be indicative overall of the brand.

One purchase that tends to stick out in my mind, though, is a pair of Ferragamo shoes, which will likely be my last of that brand and sit in my closet using up perfectly good shoe trees that could be used for other more worthy shoes.


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## Grammaton Cleric (Jul 29, 2007)

Zegna for suits
Ferragamo for shoes
Hermes for ties
Borrelli for shirts


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

Grammaton Cleric said:


> Zegna for suits
> Ferragamo for shoes
> Hermes for ties
> Borrelli for shirts


To be fair, Ferragamo doesn't market their shoes aggressively and I haven't even encountered any advertisement for its Tramezza line for quite some time. Yet the Tramezza line is nice.


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## Mathew J (Mar 31, 2007)

If talking clothes and accessories in my limited opinion...

Armani
Hugo Boss
Brooks Brothers (used to be a big fan but their styling and marketing leave me cold now)
Louis Vuitton (to be fair never liked nor "got it" with this brand)
Ferragamo
Hermes
Nautica (ugly)
Tommy Hillfiger (See above)
Lacoste
Johnston and Murphy

I actually don't mind Polo and only *because* they discount now...sure they are super main stream and everyone buys the stuff but you can get it on the cheap.

Watches and other doo dads...

Rolex (had three, still have one,none that great..give me an Omega or IWC any day)
Montblanc (Had a few, plenty of better pens)
Bose (Don't get me started here)
Leica (8k for a camera without auto focus...nope)
B&O
Mercedes (though I hear they have great roadside assistance..with Lexus you never need it)


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## UK2004 (Jan 13, 2007)

Anyone denying that the Stefano Ricci shirts in Harrods are anyhting less than increidble fabric would be silly, the cotton is out of this world.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Mathew J said:


> Watches and other doo dads...
> 
> Rolex (had three, still have one,none that great..give me an Omega or IWC any day)


Agree for dress watches, their new lines are awful. Disagree for workhorse watches - the Submariner is a fantastic diving watch. I regularly wear an OysterDate, it's half a century old and runs like, well, clockwork 



> Bose (Don't get me started here)


+1. Though their noise canceling headphones are rather good.



> Leica (8k for a camera without auto focus...nope)


Disagree - very good optics, like very good leather, cost money. A professional camera with auto focus is like a Ferrari with an automatic transmission.



> B&O


Meh, they are more about design than performance. Their old stuff was nice.



> Mercedes (though I hear they have great roadside assistance..with Lexus you never need it)


Agreed, with all but some of their really higher end cars. Their low end cars are basically luxury versions of what, in Germany, are cars that are comparable to a Ford Focus.

I'd add Jaguars that aren't an XK to that list.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Edward Green shoes
J C Penny's Tuxedos


MrR


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

JC Penney tux = overhype?


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## comrade (May 26, 2005)

*Tech Bilionaires*

Of the Tech Billionaires listed the only one I have regularly seen
in a coat and tie, aside from Bill Gates in recent years, is Larry
Ellison , founder and Chairman of Oracle. He is the oldest
and dresses very well in a contemporary Italian style. Gates
in contrast dresses more trad. Jobs wears jeans and a black
turtle neck.


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## kbuzz (Apr 2, 2005)

Albert said:


> DocHolliday,
> 
> I agree about the robustness. They certainly are long-lasting. In terms of alternatives, I know that C&Js at Plal cost around $300-350, if I'm not mistaken. However, you could get them at the factory shop for GBP 90 (i.e. c. US$ 180) and then have them shipped to the U.S. If you do it in a smart way, you might end up with US$ 200 a pair which I think is a better deal than $150 for an AE.
> 
> ...


how does one accomplish this for us in the USA, other then have a friend go to the store?


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Patrick06790 said:


> From the Trad side I'd have to say that Brooks Brothers is over-hyped. We regularly carp about the decline of BB, yet we get positively gooey when BB throws us a bone in the form of an undarted jacket. Any objective examination of BB's actions over the past 15-20 years should conclude that the glory days are over; the fans have trouble accepting this.
> 
> What's surprising to me is the failure of BB's marketing in failing to exploit the nostalgia; witness the photo of the sack jacket with the top button done up and - when the customer zooms in on the photo - a pin holding the lapel in (incorrect) place.


Brooks can be really funny this way. They came out with a catalog once, with a picture on the front of a fisherman standing in a trout stream. Problem was he was holding a short boat rod (for trolling) and it had mounted on TOP and open face spinning reel. (open face reels hang down). He was holding it incorrectly of course. So much for authenticity in ads. I have thought about assembling a scrapbook of these that I have seen over the years. Some are hilarious.


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## Flaoutlet (Nov 13, 2006)

UK2004 said:


> Anyone denying that the Stefano Ricci shirts in Harrods are anyhting less than increidble fabric would be silly, the cotton is out of this world.


I would take this opportunity to clarify between "over-hyped" (or overratted, whatever the thread is) and "not my style". Stefano Ricci, and an even better example, Artioli come to mind. I am sure that many on this forum do not prefer the style of these two lines (myself included), but it does not mean they are not a good product. Artioli is a company founded and run by artisans, three generations. They do a buttload of business in Asia and the Middle East, and this drives the direction of their styles (The full-on croc pimp shoes are everday wear in Dubai). They should both be respected for their quality and admired for their innovation.

One I would vote should not be on the list is Brioni. Expensive, yes. Worth the money, yes. I wore a pair of ten year old Brioni Vaticano pants today. The are actually from a suit and the jacket no longer fits. At ten years old these pants continue to impress me.

Add to the list - Kiton. similar to the mad experiment on this forum, we often have to alter Kiton suits brought in by our customers (we don't sell Kiton). When we take the suits apart we see how it is really made. It is not worth the money.

The other one is chocolate ice cream. Way over-hyped IMO

Tom


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Flaoutlet said:


> One I would vote should not be on the list is Brioni. Expensive, yes. Worth the money, yes. I wore a pair of ten year old Brioni Vaticano pants today. The are actually from a suit and the jacket no longer fits. At ten years old these pants continue to impress me.
> 
> Add to the list - Kiton. similar to the mad experiment on this forum, we often have to alter Kiton suits brought in by our customers (we don't sell Kiton). When we take the suits apart we see how it is really made. It is not worth the money.
> 
> ...


From what you have seen, are Brioni and Kiton actually made differently?


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Rubinacci.


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## Flaoutlet (Nov 13, 2006)

Yes, they are made differently. The finish work on the inside, the Kiton has more "shortcuts". I am sure it is a very fine garment. If it fits one above all others, maybe it is the garment for you. But, it is held up as the finest OTR. I don't agree with that.

Tom


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## ciscostud (Jan 3, 2007)

WAY Overpriced:
Hugo Boss (maybe good A LONG TIME AGO. Junk Now)
D&G
Anything Armani
ColeHaan

Better Value:
Canali 
Corneliani
Ravazzolo
C&J Handgrades
Alden
Ralph Lauren Polo (if bought under massive discount SOMETIMES)

I noticed I often wear Polo for any type of casual attire and then go Italian for dress.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

On the fora:

Marinella
Bexley shoe trees


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## simj (Mar 1, 2007)

Brian13 said:


> i know i would be lynched for this, but i think Edward Green is overhyped on these fora.


Tend to agree. Don't even buy their calf skin from an English tannery and most of their styles look like colonel crusty farts cast offs.


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## simj (Mar 1, 2007)

mannaman said:


> Pretty much every brand that is discussed here is overhyped in a way. .


Thats guerilla marketing for you


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

Did I miss it or did nobody mention Burberry? They cant even blow up their brand correctly, every hoodlum and their knife-wielding chav brother running wild in the streets of London wears knock-off novacheck baseball caps. Thats when you know you are in trouble.

I also think Missoni is crap, every sweater makes you look like Charlie Brown.

For over-hype there is also Alexander McQueen - all crap.

Prada - already mentioned but I just want to add a +1 that they are crap.

Paul Smith and Thierrey Mugler - both overhyped crap.

You know your brand has sold out when you sell keyfobs with your logo on it or if you make shoes like ferragamo but also cuff links and sweaters. you are also marching off the cliff brandwise when you go past the point of having a regular line and an extra-special line. Armani has about 5 levels starting at crap and working all the way up to over-hyped.

...Wait I almost forgot - Cavalli is total crap as well. God, its endless!

OH you know its a forum of diehards and purists when you read this whole thread and realize that as a group we dont like anything !!! heheheee


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Brian13 said:


> i know i would be lynched for this, but i think Edward Green is overhyped on these fora.


I agree and I would say the same of Sargents, Barkers and Churches.
Whereas Lobb and Cleverly deserve their rep.
While Loake and Cheaney tend to be slightly underrated.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Tom Ford


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Companies that revolve around the selling of Japanese selvage jeans.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

Scoundrel said:


> Companies that revolve around the selling of Japanese selvage jeans.


I disagree, I sort of like some of those companies. Although a lot of their clothing is too trendy for this forum.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

haha FLABBIO.
Man, it's a hard life on the internet.


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## Trippa (Feb 4, 2009)

Seems to be an excess of "stone them!" creeping in here. Personally, I'd speak up in defence of Paul Smith shirts - lovely material with a sharp cut and a little added funky twist, plus a Paul Smith London size 16 fits me like a roomy glove :icon_smile:


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

Surely the over-hyped brands are the ones most talked about compared others and on this forum Brook Brothers, Edward Green, tailors from Savile Row, Oxxford, Alex Kabbaz etc. Outside of this forum, Italian fashion labels. Just because they are talked about a lot, does not mean they are crap or their rivals are better.

A company may sell crap products, it does not mean all the products are crap. I could compare my Prada t-shirts - my Prada Sport t-shirt with a small Prada print on the left chest cost the same as my Prada t-shirt without a logo on the front, but the latter is better quality.
*
On this thread, people are confusing hype, with what companies charge and whether they think products are over-priced.*

One thing I have found on this forum, is people forget that sometimes a shirt that is 10% better does not mean it would cost 10% more, it would cost more. For example, Charvet shirts are considered as the best RTW shirts and most bespoke shirts cost less. Compare a Charvet shirt with one from Alex Kabbaz - more stitching, extra button, quality control time per shirt etc. All that extra work and in most cases quality, costs more money. 
We even make the comparison between other bespoke shirts and one from Alex. We could ask a shirt maker to make a shirt like Alex does, and if they agree instead of charging £200 for bespoke shirt it may be £400/500 or even more then Alex charges.

*
As for value bespoke/high-end MTM suits, blazers, trousers, shirts and shoes are some of the best value for money items. The others, are the ones in the low bracket, the cheap Primark t-shirts, they do not last long but they do not cost much.*


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## GreenPlastic (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm also going to speak up in defense of Paul Smith. For the price, you get a pretty decent item -- be it a shirt, tie, suit, or what have you. It's not Kiton or anything, but it's not like you're paying Kiton prices for it either.

Parts of this thread are starting to read like a music snobbery thread. Mention any band (or brand) that someone outside of the immediate circle is likely to have heard of before, and it's instantly despised.


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

GreenPlastic said:


> Parts of this thread are starting to read like a music snobbery thread. Mention any band (or brand) that someone outside of the immediate circle is likely to have heard of before, and it's instantly despised.


... or do not like.

Not just this thread, this forum. The same with the Trad forum. The same with the people outside this Website.


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## SOhp101 (Apr 3, 2009)

It all depends on the brand tailoring toward your physique type. Most people on here strongly prefer suits and all things traditional so fashion forward brand names are mud. 

The higher up the luxury ladder you go, the more 'overpriced' things become... whether it's clothing, cars, electronics, etc. Law of diminishing returns is in play.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

deanayer said:


> Did I miss it or did nobody mention Burberry? They cant even blow up their brand correctly, every hoodlum and their knife-wielding chav brother running wild in the streets of London wears knock-off novacheck baseball caps. Thats when you know you are in trouble.


I think this trend died a few years ago. I've been to London a few times in the last 2 years and didn't spot the infamous burberry novacheck once. In UK street fashion trends die as quickly as they start.



deanayer said:


> I also think Missoni is crap, every sweater makes you look like Charlie Brown.


:icon_smile_big:



deanayer said:


> Paul Smith


I don't get this. Some of their shoes are made by Crockett & Jones. Obviously they're more casual and aimed at a different crowd, but I don't think anyone can accuse them of being of inferior quality.

Also their suits are very attractive. I stil remember seeing one with a purple lining with a map of the city of London on it. I've never seen a detailed touch like that anywhere else, even on bespoke suits.


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## weckl (Jun 28, 2003)

WhyMe said:


> 1. Euro Trash labels: Prada, D&G, LV, GUCCI, Armani
> 2. I don't think EG is overrated. If GUCCI shoes cost $650, I think $900-$1000 for EG shoes is OK, IMO.
> 3. I think Ermenegildo Zegna is overrated. $2500 CAD for Zegna suit is bit too much.
> 4. Any shirt makers who make shirts that cost over $250.


I totally agree, particularly about the shirts. You could go custom for far less than that. In fact, you could go bespoke (or at least MTM) for less than what most people spend on designer suits.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Allen-Edmonds


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

The phrase "quality street wear" is a total oxymoron. Dropping hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars, just to look street? C'mon now! I get a kick out of people who spend their paychecks on, and have their closets filled with quality street wear. Epic fail...



Mannix said:


> I disagree, I sort of like some of those companies. Although a lot of their clothing is too trendy for this forum.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

Scoundrel said:


> The phrase "quality street wear" is a total oxymoron. Dropping hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars, just to look street? C'mon now! I get a kick out of people who spend their paychecks on, and have their closets filled with quality street wear. Epic fail...


I agree, that is ridiculous. The only thing I like from APC is their selvege demin jeans and the occassional trench.


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## stylishopper (Apr 18, 2009)

I also like the APC selvedge jeans. For me, the over hyped Brands are the Italian brands such as Emporio Armani, Prada.


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## DuMont (May 25, 2008)

Brooks Brothers. 

Crap in a fancy store, that gives you the impression you belong to some exclusive country club, when you are paying a premium for crap. 

Any suit off the rack that costs more than high-end MTM or even bespoke is a joke. Zegna, Kiton, Ralph Lauren, Canali, Oxxford, etc.


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## T1Million (Feb 13, 2009)

Armani, Brioni and Boss.


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## Mr. Golem (Mar 18, 2006)

stylishopper said:


> I also like the APC selvedge jeans. For me, the over hyped Brands are the Italian brands such as Emporio Armani, Prada.


APC use to be a good value at $120 or so, but then they put a restriction on selling their jeans below $155 :/. Bad move APC.


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## stylishopper (Apr 18, 2009)

I agree. (eventhough I really adore their jeans) but times are tough nowadays due to global recession and who knows when it's gonna end.


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## Mr. Golem (Mar 18, 2006)

How long did it take you to button up your fresh pair of New Standards?  And how long did you go sans washing?


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## Texan (Dec 31, 2008)

berluti. ugliest shoes ive ever seen


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## weckl (Jun 28, 2003)

Scoundrel said:


> Allen-Edmonds


I wholeheartedly disagree. For the price (if you know where to look, you can find them in the $150 to $200 range), you can't buy a better shoe. If anything, AE is underrated.

I would say Louis Vuitton is ludicrously overpriced and overhyped. $575 for one of their incredibly tacky insignia belts. $2160 for a CANVAS overnight bag. And, of course, their multi-thousand-dollar purses (usually canvas with leather trim). Who besides Paris Hilton buys this crap?

No company has taken advantage of the world's brand-obsessed fashion victims like Louis Vuitton.


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## pycraft (Oct 27, 2008)

Scoundrel said:


> The phrase "quality street wear" is a total oxymoron. Dropping hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars, just to look street? C'mon now! I get a kick out of people who spend their paychecks on, and have their closets filled with quality street wear. Epic fail...


Not necessarily. Whilst we may be dressing well (and tring to look good) in the pursuit of a Platonic, higher aesthetic ideal, for many guys the $$ spent on clothes is done with a single aim in mind; to get laid. If dropping money on a brand sends a message the ladies find appealing, then arguably it's worth the money regardless of actual quality.

It would be interesting to know how many of us here also have thie motivation at the heat of our nipped-waist suits...


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