# Alden LHS v. AE Patriot



## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

Now that Allen Edmonds has had the Patriot out for half a year or so, I was wondering if anyone who also owned some Alden Leisure Handsewn shoes had also acquired some Patriots. How do the two shoes compare? what is different between the two? does either shoe have any pros or cons that the other does not possess?


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## blackgrass (Nov 25, 2009)

Interested in this as well. I'm currently looking at the Randolph and curious how they compare to the LHS and Patriot. I'd like to step up from the Waldens.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Most seem to love the LHS, but I had a pair quite some time ago and didn't care for them. Specifically, I found the heel much too wide for my foot. I believe it's built on their Van last.

I also found AE's Patriot a very handsome looking penny. But I got turned off while reading the comments. Just too many complaints about them being *really* uncomfortable shoes!

Think I'm going to give Rancourt a try for my next pair of pennies. They have lots, but this is the version that most catches my eye -


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## g3dahl (Aug 26, 2011)

Those Rancourts look awfully nice to me too. Please let us know how it works out!


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## jwooten (Dec 19, 2010)

Anecdotal support for the Rancourts, they are quite comfortable, after about 10 wears. Make sure the fit is spot on. The toe box is a little unforgiving and the heels will slip some until they break in. Overall, a great shoe. The last is very true to size and maybe slightly narrow.


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

I have only tried on the Patriots in the store and for me the fit was not nearly as comfortable as my LHS. I realize it's unfair for me to compare a new pair of Patriots while I wear LHS 2-3 times a week but the toebox on the AE's was wide while the heel was too narrow. Just didn't match my feet well at all.

One big advantage to Aldens is that you can get them unlined at Brooks Brothers and a couple of times a year Brooks puts them on sale for 30% off. I own 4 pair of Alden LHS and in my experience the unlined Brooks LHS is much more comfortable (and easier to break in) than the standard Alden LHS. The only shoe I have that is more comfortable is my unlined suede LHS with a flex sole.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I've had my BB LHS (not sure if it's the Van last on those as well) for about 2 years and they're among my most comfortable shoes. Of course, as with blazers, there's always room for variety even in the basics so I've been looking casually for some time for another pair and the only real candidates so far are the Rancourts. I advised my younger brother to get a pair when he started his first job and he's a big fan. I believe he's picked up a pair of the camp mocs as well. 

As much as I love AE, they seem to be diluting their quality and aesthetic since opening all of these retail stores. The leather looks inferior even at several feet away and upon closer inspection many of the shoes are indistinguishable from the type of house models sold at J.Crew or similar mall stores.


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

Trip English said:


> I've had my BB LHS (not sure if it's the Van last on those as well) for about 2 years and they're among my most comfortable shoes. Of course, as with blazers, there's always room for variety even in the basics so I've been looking casually for some time for another pair and the only real candidates so far are the Rancourts. I advised my younger brother to get a pair when he started his first job and he's a big fan. I believe he's picked up a pair of the camp mocs as well.
> 
> As much as I love AE, they seem to be diluting their quality and aesthetic since opening all of these retail stores. The leather looks inferior even at several feet away and upon closer inspection many of the shoes are indistinguishable from the type of house models sold at J.Crew or similar mall stores.


I'd love to own a pair of Rancourts, but I think first a classic penny is in order, as the rancourts look just a tad bit too casual for me to wear to the office. Once I have the basics covered, and I'm ready for a pair of casual loafers, I'll definitely be giving rancourt a call.

Also, I thought Alden made the house shoes for J. Crew?


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Alden makes shoes for J.Crew, but (unless something has changed recently) the house branded shoes are something different.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

rwaldron said:


> I'd love to own a pair of Rancourts, but I think first a classic penny is in order, as the rancourts look just a tad bit too casual for me to wear to the office. Once I have the basics covered, and I'm ready for a pair of casual loafers, I'll definitely be giving rancourt a call.


Rancourt can make a penny as casual or formal as you want it to be. A flat strap penny with color-matched stitching, a flat heel counter and black or brown edge dressing in burgundy calf is about as classic as it gets.


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> Rancourt can make a penny as casual or formal as you want it to be. A flat strap penny with color-matched stitching, a flat heel counter and black or brown edge dressing in burgundy calf is about as classic as it gets.


There is still something with a more casual look to their shoes. It's like catfish. You can prepare catfish any way you want; grill it and cover it with a lemon-butter-caper sauce garnished with lump crabmeat. It will be delicious, but you'll still wish you had rolled it in cornmeal and deep fried it.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

rwaldron said:


> There is still something with a more casual look to their shoes. It's like catfish. You can prepare catfish any way you want; grill it and cover it with a lemon-butter-caper sauce garnished with lump crabmeat. It will be delicious, but you'll still wish you had rolled it in cornmeal and deep fried it.


Ah, I think I understand (and now I'm hungry, as well :smile.

The LHS and Patriot are Goodyear welted loafers. They're constructed like most dress shoes with a leather upper stretched down over a last and stitched to the sole by means of a welt. Their similarity to other types of dress shoes lends them an air of formality over moccasin-type shoes.

Rancourts, on the other hand, are "handsewns," built with true, moccasin construction. A single piece of leather wraps the sides and underside of the foot and a leather plug is stitched to the top to cover the toe. This is the "classic penny" and probably what led to the confusion.


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## jeffsols (Dec 7, 2010)

been a while since i've been on the board, but this is a topic on which i'm versed! I own 8 pair of rancourts--three sourced under RL brand (but since re-soled by Rancourt) and the rest bought directly over last 3 years from rancourt. two RL pair are their horse stirrup/bit loafer, one is a beef roll penny. The "bit" loafers fit exceptionally well and comfortably; both are on their second set of soles after 3-4 years wear--and are very comfortable. the beef roll is very casual, and correct as above that the toe box is unforgiving and more comfortable with socks. I also own rancourts own true bit loafer (lined) that is identical in fit/comfort to the RL brand made by rancourt.

On a whim, and motiviated by a great sale price, i bought the patriot last year. About a dozen wears thus far. Takes more breaking in than the rancourt, and not quite as refined a look. But, it does wear like a tank and is my go-to rainy/cold weather loafer, the rancourts are more fair weather bec the sole is slightly more thin.

That said, i'll keep buying the rancourts because it just feels a little more finely finished than the patriot. agree with hardline on the quality finish of the bits. for those with concerns about rancourts not being dressy enough, check out their facebook page and website for a very dressy tobacco colored leather they are now offering. top shelf and my next purchase.

the patriot appears much more casusal than the higher priced aldens also,.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

^ Jeff, I'd love to see some pics of the bit loafers. I've got a hankering for some casual bits in their Buckaroo leather but I need a low vamp and most bits I've seen are quite high.


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> ^ Jeff, I'd love to see some pics of the bit loafers. I've got a hankering for some casual bits in their Buckaroo leather but I need a low vamp and most bits I've seen are quite high.


 Yeah, I had heard rumor of the rare rancourt bit loafer, but I've never seen a picture of one.


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## blackgrass (Nov 25, 2009)

I agree on the toe box on the Rancourts. I have a pair of beefrolls I am going to have to sell due to pinched toes. Rancourt has a fit before you buy program that I would highly suggest if you are thinking of going that route.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

I've had two pairs of Alden LHS for about five years. (One #8 shell and one black calf) As I've mentioned before I have spend a couple of thousand dollars trying to get a good fit in most any Alden. (The Barrie last just kills my feet!) The exception being the LHS last and the last that Indy boots are made on.

Bottom line, I love both pairs of Alden LHS. To be fair they did take awhile to brake in. They hurt the top aspect of my foot, specifically where the penny strap goes across the foot. But now that they've broken in they are a dream. I love them both.

Recently I purchased a pair of factory 2nd Allen Edmonds Patriots. They have really hurt the top of my feet where the strap goes across the shoe. (Says more about my feet than the fit of either Allen Edmonds or Alden)

None the less the *Patriots* have now broken in and they fit well. One thing though, *they creek and squeak awfully bad*. The noise comes from where the heel is mated to the sole of the shoe. I'm not sure the noises will ever go away.

Anyone else experienced the creeks and squeak from the Patriot?


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

127.72 MHz said:


> Anyone else experienced the creeks and squeak from the Patriot?


My AE perf captoe shoes from brooks squeak like crazy. I can't stretch my toes without awful noises coming from them. I thought maybe that was just my shoes, but it sounds like its an AE problem.

I'm pretty sure mine squeaking and creaking comes from the lining rubbing against the outer leather though, as it can happen without moving the sole at all.


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## jaybird (Sep 18, 2012)

First time poster here. I have had the AE Patriot in brown shell cordovan for about four months now. I also am a long-time wearer of the shell cordovan Alden LHS and the Brooks Brothers unlined LHS. Of the three, the unlined LHS is by far the easiest wearing and most comfortable. Between the AE Patriot and the lined Alden LHS, I have found the Patriot to be more comfortable -- a little wider in the toe box and the strap is not as tight. The look of the shoes is similar, but I think the Aldens look nicer -- particularly the stitching and the finish of the leather. My Patriots are new, however, and may start to look better as the leather takes on a patina.


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## tocohillsguy (Jan 1, 2013)

127.72 MHz said:


> Anyone else experienced the creeks and squeak from the Patriot?


Read somewhere (perhaps in this forum) that it is a known manufacturing defect, and AE has gone to another heel counter to solve the problem. You should contact AE and see what they offer to do for you.

With regard to the OP's inquiry, if you are worried about the loafer being too casual, you should look at the AE Randolph and Westchester. I have both and find them to be quite comfortable. I only wear them with socks.


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## DannoRye (Feb 1, 2013)

They are both lined, which is an odd feature in a shoe that (to me, anyway) is more conducive to sockless wear.


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## ColdIron (Jun 19, 2009)

I have the Patriot in brown shell. It is the only loafer that I have ever found that fits me, I have a very narrow heel. I think in my case the dings it gets on the reviews at the AE website are the strengths for me. No squeaking on mine, if they did and it came from the heel area I'd take it to my local cobbler.


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## jeffsols (Dec 7, 2010)

thank you for noting the squeak, my patriots squeaked too -- may still. wore them w/ my kids around so didn't notice last time, compared to office wear where it's quiet! will check and report back.
​


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

I considered the Patriots, but opted to go with Rancourts after reading so many good things. Went with No. 8 shell with the unlined with the non-beef roll style. Looking forward to receiving in about 2 weeks.


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## AncientMadder (Apr 21, 2011)

127.72 MHz said:


> Anyone else experienced the creeks and squeak from the Patriot?





jeffsols said:


> thank you for noting the squeak, my patriots squeaked too -- may still. wore them w/ my kids around so didn't notice last time, compared to office wear where it's quiet! will check and report back.


I'm dealing with the same issue. I've read that Allen Edmonds is aware of the issue and has exchanged/repaired shoes for some customers. I bought my pair lightly worn on eBay, though; I don't think I came make any recourse to Allen Edmonds since I'm not the original purchaser.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

I know I'm a little late to this thread, but figured I'd add my thoughts since I own the Patriot in brown calf and used to own the LHS in color 8 shell. I sold the LHS after buying the Patriots because, as much as I loved the look and quality of the LHS, the strap was just too tight across the tops of my feet making them painful to wear. I have found the Patriots to be very comfortable right out of the box.

However, my Patriots do squeak pretty badly when I walk. Definitely an AE problem, because I have a pair of Waldens that do the same thing. I've never contacted AE about it, just decided it wasn't a big enough deal to go through the hassle. I'll just wear different shoes if I plan on sneaking up on someone.


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## cincydavid (May 21, 2012)

I have the Patriots in dark brown burnished calf...love 'em. AEs tend to fit me better than Alden anyway, the only Aldens I own that fit well are Cape Cod bit loafers, and I don't consider those "real" Aldens in the first place. I would love to get the Patriots in the pebble-grain football leather...


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

AncientMadder said:


> I'm dealing with the same issue. I've read that Allen Edmonds is aware of the issue and has exchanged/repaired shoes for some customers. I bought my pair lightly worn on eBay, though; I don't think I came make any recourse to Allen Edmonds since I'm not the original purchaser.


I have a pair of squeaky Patriots, can a decent cobbler fix the heel squeak? As much as sending them back is the preferred option, I live here in Canada and once an international border gets involved, life gets really interesting.


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## WillBr (Dec 15, 2009)

Uncle Bill said:


> I have a pair of squeaky Patriots, can a decent cobbler fix the heel squeak?


I doubt it...the problem (according to the guy at my AE store) is actually with the thermoplastic heel counter sewn into the panel in the rear of the upper where the two sides come together, not what we think of as "the heel" itself. Pinch and wiggle that little panel on yours and see if its the same thing..i could even feel the offending bit in mine.

The AE store was more than happy to swap mine out for a new pair. If that's not an option for you, it'd say buck up and deal with the mail issues you mentioned...I think you'll be glad you did in the long run. That squeak is annoying!


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## AncientMadder (Apr 21, 2011)

There is hope! I took my Patriots to a cobbler who fixed them for $30. He opened up the heel and re-glued (?) the plastic that Will describes. The squeak, which previously made the shoes unwearable, is 100% gone now. I would have sent the shoes to Allen Edmonds, but they were seconds and so not under warranty.

Try your local shoe repair place, Uncle Bill.

And for anyone else who finds this thread while searching for a solution, this is the place that fixed my Patriots. They accept mail-ins:

https://dereksshoerepair.com


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

AncientMadder said:


> There is hope! I took my Patriots to a cobbler who fixed them for $30. He opened up the heel and re-glued (?) the plastic that Will describes. The squeak, which previously made the shoes unwearable, is 100% gone now. I would have sent the shoes to Allen Edmonds, but they were seconds and so not under warranty.
> 
> Try your local shoe repair place, Uncle Bill.
> 
> ...


I'm going Monday to have my local shoe guy eyeball my Patriots. My squeak is definitely with the heel counter as well. If he won't try to fix them then I'm sending them to your guy. The squeak is annoying!


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## Barrow Jacket (Mar 14, 2012)

Wanted to confirm that AE will help you exchange your Patriots for the squeak issue, even if you've worn them a bit. I stuck it out with mine for several months hoping it would go away but it did not. I ended up switching to a different shoe model, b/c the fit on mine was too painful anyway. I just couldn't find a fit that worked for me in that last. 
The AE store manager was as helpful and courteous as you would expect.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

^+1. I called AE about my squeaky Patriots and was informed that the problem had been fixed and that they would gladly exchange mine for a new pair. The process couldn't have been easier...they emailed me a pre-paid UPS label, and I boxed them up and dropped them off at the UPS Store down the street from my house. As promised, I received a brand new, twice-inspected pair in the mail and they are perfect. Have never had any fit issues my mine...very comfortable right out of the box. None of the top-of-foot soreness I used to get at the end of a day wearing my LHS.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

FLCracka said:


> As promised, I received a brand new, twice-inspected pair in the mail and they are perfect.


Can't beat that with a stick! :thumbs-up:


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

whiskey lhs


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## Preacher (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm on the AE Patriot side. I have them in brown shell and in #8 shell. I'll wear them with dress socks and sometimes with loafer socks depending on what i'm doing. I'll admit that my catalyst for getting the AE's were price. I was about to get the Alden version in #8 when AE had a sale on seconds. I ended up getting both pair of AEs for literally only a few more dollars than what the one pair of Aldens cost. But, as Uncle Mac showed in the post above, AE has nothing comparable to the Alden LHS in Whiskey.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

#8 lhs


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

ravello lhs
argyles otc


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## Busterdog (Jan 1, 2010)

I have the Alden LHS and the AE Patriot, they are both comfortable though of the two I prefer the Alden, the Patriot seems much less substantial.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

IMHO the Alden LHS in shell cordovan, when you can achieve a good fit, just has to be the ultimate penny loafer! :thumbs-up:


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> IMHO the Alden LHS in shell cordovan, when you can achieve a good fit, just has to be the ultimate penny loafer! :thumbs-up:


nephew,
+1


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

cigar lhs


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## Preacher (Jul 5, 2008)

AE Patriot in Brown Shell


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

mcarthur said:


> ravello lhs
> argyles otc


Ahoy, Brother McArthur, lovely argyles. Did you get yours from ShoeMart? My ravellos are slightly closer to the whiskey in color, a really rich caramel, but a touch lighter than yours.


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