# Top 10 Italian shoe makers



## antirabbit

Who are they and what are the best bang for the buck?

Dont Eat The Mints....


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## pt4u67

I'm no expert but I've always thought a. testoni were quite nice and can be had sometimes at a discount. I've seeks them often at "off 5th" and on e-bay. Bruno Magli and Ferragamo are quite nicely done but I believe they have several different lines and some are a better quality then others. I'm still not sure how to tell them apart though. 

Santoni's are quite nice and I own a pair of brown oxfords.


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## Trying

I'm really happy with my Santoni's.


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## GT3

Don't even go close to Ferragamo. I have had mine for about 4 months and the leather is tearing my flesh while the sole develops small holes to expose some sort of black foamy substance. Piece of s**t... I am glad I only payed $130 at the Rack, probably $130 too many.

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## pt4u67

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> Don't even go close to Ferragamo. I have had mine for about 4 months and the leather is tearing my flesh while the sole develops small holes to expose some sort of black foamy substance. Piece of s**t... I am glad I only payed $130 at the Rack, probably $130 too many.


Thanks for the heads up. I remeber seeing a pair of brown suede lace ups there once and thought they were quite attractive. The angel of discretion however talked me out of it and now I'm glad.

By the way, does anyone have an opinion on Moreschi. Some of their styles are more down to earth and just wondering about the quality.


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## Soph

From the Shoe Diety Jcusey in no particular order:
Italy 

A. Testoni -- Three different levels of quality. Regular-line shoes (now called Studium, I believe) are okay, if a little bit fashion-forward. The Black Label shoes are better. They're all Bologna-constructed, and every so often I see a model that I actually could wear. Most of them are a bit too fashion-forward for my tastes, and the prices (over $700 per pair) are high. The third line is called Amedeo Testoni and consists of Goodyear-welted and Norwegian constructed shoes. These are excellently-made but mostly unattractive to my eyes. They're also extremely expensive for what you're getting. 

Bruno Magli -- Magli has a number of different lines. The only line worth talking about is the Platinum line. They appear to be well made (I think that they're Blake-constructed), but the designs are a bit over-the-top for me. They're also very expensive for the quality. I don't believe that Magli actually owns any production facilities but rather contracts all production out to third parties.

Silvano Lattanzi -- Handmade shoes of impeccable quality. Lattanzi was originally brought to the United States by Louis Boston and is a pioneer here of handmade shoes and very high prices. He's best known for gunboat-sized Norwegian- or Bentivegna-constructed shoes with flashy antiquing, but he can do more subdued styles as well.

Kiton -- Kiton's shoes have a eye-popping antiquing similar to what one sees on Lattanzi shoes, but the last shapes tend to be sleeker and the designs, while unusual, are generally more conservative.

Sutor Mantellassi -- I will admit that I have a soft spot in my heart for Sutor Mantellassi shoes. I love the way that they do Norwegian construction (with a single row of stitching rather than the flashier two braided rows favored by other makers) and their innovative use of skin stitching. Like most Italian producers, Mantellassi has more than one line: a Blake-constructed line of good but not outstanding quality and a Norwegian or Goodyear-constructed line that is of excellent quality.

Gravati -- One of my favorite Italian manufacturers, not because there aren't better producers out there (there are) but because Gravati makes an excellent shoe for a reasonable price and because they are almost infinitely flexible in what they can and will produce. Over the years, I have placed many, many special orders for Gravati shoes, and they are always right and of remarkably consistent quality. Their shoes are mostly Blake- and Blake/Rapid-constructed, but they will make Goodyear-welted shoes on request.

Borgioli -- Borgioli is a major producer of private-label shoes, some of which are made to execrable standards of quality and which Borgioli would never want to claim. Hey, they need to survive. The shoes produced under their own label are very good. Most are Blake-constructed. A few are Norwegian-constructed, and they are excellent.

Romano Martegani -- Martegani operates a very good Blake and Blake/Rapid factory, and they are endlessly flexible. Gravati will almost never say no to a customer's cockamamie ideas for a shoe, but they will say no sometimes. Martegani won't. These are good, not excellent, shoes offered for a reasonable price. User Ron Rider, formerly the shoe manager at Franco's in Richmond, is now the US distributer for Martegani.

Salvatore Ferragamo -- Like Bruno Magli, Ferragamo doesn't own any of their own production facilities. Also like Bruno Magli, they market shoes of widely varying qualities. The Studio line shoes are cemented and not worth the money they cost. The Lavarazione Originale line shoes are generally Blake-constructed and are often attractive and well-made, if overpriced. The Tramezza line shoes are Goodyear-welted and are very good. Ferragamo has a joint venture with Zegna called Zefer, and Zefer produces all of the Zegna-labelled shoes. I believe, although I am not certain, that Zegna owns the production facilities for these shoes, some of which are very good.

StefanoBi -- I don't know a whole lot about StefanoBi shoes, but I believe that this was Stefano Branchini's original company and that he sold it to LVMH in the 1990s. The StefanoBi factory apparently produces shoes for all of the LVMH companies, including Berluti. The only pair of StefanoBi shoes that I ever saw (square-toe tan wingtip balmorals) were attractive in a flashy, Italian sort of way. 

Stefano Branchini -- If I recall correctly, I believe that Sr. Branchini started this company after he sold StefanoBi to LVMH. I have never seen any of these shoes in the flesh, and I really can't comment on the quality of construction. What I can say is that these shoes, to me, represent everything that is wrong with Italian shoemaking today. They're ugly and over-the-top. It's like Sr. Branchini took all that is excessive about Lattanzi shoes and used it as a toned-down model for what he wanted to do.

Artioli -- I believe, although I am not sure, that Artioni shoes are mostly Bologna-constructed. They look to be well-made and are undoubtedly very flexible. I have two primary complaints with Artioli shoes. First is the leather that they tend to use: it's that glove-leather-looking stuff that Italian shoes were known for in the 1980s. Sure, it's soft, but it doesn't wear very well. Secondly, they have succumbed to the witch's shoes trend: their shoes nowadays tend to have elongated, needle-nose snouts that I think are extremely ugly.

Santoni -- Santoni produces many, many different lines of shoes. The Nuvola shoes have natural rubber soles and are decently-constructed and comfortable Blake shoes. The Classic line consists of some Bologna, some Blake, and some Goodyear shoes. The new Bologna models, in particular, are made on a very attractive round-toe last and are extremely flexible. The Fatte a Mano line consists of some Blake and some Goodyear, Norwegian, or Bentivegna shoes. Many of the Fatte a Mano models are, well, ugly, with overly-elongated, pointy, witch's-shoes-looking snouts; but when they're right, they're very, very right. Regardless, while you can complain about the looks of the non-Blake Fatte a Manos, you can't complain about the construction. It's excellent.

Moreschi -- Moreschi is yet another good maker of mid-range Blake-constructed shoes. Much of what they sell is, ah, exuberant. Combinations of blue peccary with blue ostrich leg are to be found. You don't have to buy those. The normal shoes are well-made and reasonably priced. Probably a small step below Gravati in quality of construction, and much below Gravati in flexibility of offerings and receptivity to special orders.

Fratelli Peluso -- I have seen a number of different types of Peluso shoes. The first is a line of Goodyear-welted shoes that look to be well-constructed and fairly-priced. From the website, it appears that these shoes have a gemmed linen feather and are machine-welted just as most English welted shoes. Given the price (under $500 per pair), this is to be expected. Peluso also makes a line of Blake-constructed shoes and yet another line of Blake-constructed shoes sold under the "Peluso for To Boot Adam Derrick" label. Both appear to be relatively well-constructed shoes offered for reasonable prices.

Barrett -- I have never seen a Barrett shoe in person, but their website certainly shows a number of beautiful models. Although the website doesn't specify the construction methods used, it's likely that most of them are Blake or Blake/Rapid constructed, with a few Norwegian models.

Bontoni -- This company has made a recent splash on the US market, getting themselves carried by Louis Boston and Stanley Korshak. The shoes are very much of a piece with a lot of high-end Italian shoes nowadays: a bit clunky, with eye-popping antiquing. If you like that sort of thing, these shoes appear to be well-made versions of the aesthetic. The problem is that they're grossly overpriced. They're Blake/Rapid-constructed, and the channel for the Rapid sole stitching isn't closed. Frankly, the quality of construction is inferior to Gravati or Martegani, in my opinion; and yet the retail price for the calfskin models is nearly $1000 per pair.

Bonora -- Florentine bespoke maker that has branched into RTW. I don't know if these are factory-made shoes of if they are made in Bonora's workshop. Given the prices, I suspect that the former is more likely than the latter. The shoes themselves appear to be mostly Goodyear-welted and staid in their styling.

De Tommaso -- A specialist in handmade Goodyear, Norwegian, and Treccia shoes. 

Zegna -- A few years ago, Zegna began a joint venture with Ferragamo called Zefer (oh, the originality!) to produce Zegna-labeled shoes. I suspect, although I do not know for sure, that Zegna actually owns the production facilities for these shoes. In any event, they run the gamut from the very ordinary to the very nice. Most of the lower-priced versions are either cemented or Blake-constructed. The top-of-the-line shoes, however, are Goodyear-welted and very attractive. As with a lot of Zegna's products, they are probably overpriced for what they are, but what they are appears to be excellent quality shoes. 


Constantly Improving my Style
One should either be a work of art, or wear a work of art. ~Oscar Wilde


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## pt4u67

Anyone have an opinion on fratelli rossetti?


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## thinman

> quote:_Originally posted by pt4u67_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> Don't even go close to Ferragamo. I have had mine for about 4 months and the leather is tearing my flesh while the sole develops small holes to expose some sort of black foamy substance. Piece of s**t... I am glad I only payed $130 at the Rack, probably $130 too many.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. I remeber seeing a pair of brown suede lace ups there once and thought they were quite attractive. The angel of discretion however talked me out of it and now I'm glad.
> 
> By the way, does anyone have an opinion on Moreschi. Some of their styles are more down to earth and just wondering about the quality.
Click to expand...

Try the Ferragamo Tramezza line. I own 4 pairs, which I bought at an outlet store for $359, $349, $159, and $159 (the two less expensive pairs were floor display models in perfect condition). They typically sell on ebay for something near $340, so they can be found for much less than the retail price of $600-700. The are very well made, use excellent leather, and are stylish without being over-the-top. In fact, one of my $159 pairs is a very conventional-looking brown punched captoe model.

The Tramezza shoes have a fabric label sewn to the insole with the company name, "Salvatore Ferragamo", and the company name on a gold plate attached to the sole at the waist. "Tramezza" is embossed on the sole just forward of the gold plate. Don't discount the Tramezza shoes just because Ferragamo's other lines of shoes may be dreck.

Best regards,
thinman


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## GT3

> quote:_Originally posted by thinman_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by pt4u67_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> Don't even go close to Ferragamo. I have had mine for about 4 months and the leather is tearing my flesh while the sole develops small holes to expose some sort of black foamy substance. Piece of s**t... I am glad I only payed $130 at the Rack, probably $130 too many.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. I remeber seeing a pair of brown suede lace ups there once and thought they were quite attractive. The angel of discretion however talked me out of it and now I'm glad.
> 
> By the way, does anyone have an opinion on Moreschi. Some of their styles are more down to earth and just wondering about the quality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try the Ferragamo Tramezza line. I own 4 pairs, which I bought at an outlet store for $359, $349, $159, and $159 (the two less expensive pairs were floor display models in perfect condition). They typically sell on ebay for something near $340, so they can be found for much less than the retail price of $600-700. The are very well made, use excellent leather, and are stylish without being over-the-top. In fact, one of my $159 pairs is a very conventional-looking brown punched captoe model.
> 
> The Tramezza shoes have a fabric label sewn to the insole with the company name, "Salvatore Ferragamo", and the company name on a gold plate attached to the sole at the waist. "Tramezza" is embossed on the sole just forward of the gold plate. Don't discount the Tramezza shoes just because Ferragamo's other lines of shoes may be dreck.
> 
> Best regards,
> thinman
Click to expand...

thinman - What outlet store did you score those shoes? I do like the Ferragamo look, but leather is made of steel.

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## Morris

> quote:_Originally posted by antirabbit_
> 
> Who are they and what are the best bang for the buck?
> 
> Dont Eat The Mints....


You might try Gucci ... depending on your point of reference might be a bargain, but disturbingly ubiquitous.

-- Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance.


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## Roger

Three words for what's needed to nail this topic down: Jcusey, Ron Rider.

In their absence, let me take a stab at trying to synthesize what I've learned from these two guys plus other knowledgeable forumers (Bengal-stripe, Medwards, et al.), along with a little personal experience (note: RTW only here); ranking: 1=highest quality...:

1. Lattanzi (just one grade)
2. Kiton (just one grade)
3. Santoni (tan sock Fatte e mano)
4. Sutor Mantellassi (top line only)
(Some would argue that these two should be seen as equal or even reversed.)
5. & 6. Branchini and Artioli in no particular order (Jcusey, I know this will raise your blood pressure vis-a-vis Branchini)
7, 8, & 9. Gravati, Martegani, StefanoBi - no order
(Ron, I know you'll cringe when you see RM at this position, and, hey, I'm probably wrong! BTW, I do love my RM shoes! And we're not talking value for money here; on that score RM are near the top.)
10. & 11. Moreschi and Borgioli. Oh, jeez, forgot a. Testoni. The Amadeus Testoni shoes (the best Testoni) are probably at about position 4.5 above.

Note: _All_ the makers noted above produce "good" or better shoes. I've seen some really nice Moreschi shoes locally, and I know that Borgioli shoes are very good too (the "Certo" brand seen on Lance Hughes's Virtual Clothes Horse website are, I believe, made by Borgioli).

The rest fall below these, although the Ferragamo Tramezza line (only) are very good shoes and should perhaps be seen as equivalent to the 7/8/9 level above. This listing is ignoring shoes branded by Brioni, Zegna, Canali, and others where the actual maker is unknown. I have a pair of really beautiful Brioni shoes, but was unsuccessful in divining their provenance. I've seen some really lovely Zegna and Canali shoes too, but also some real dogs by those brands. My Bruno Maglis were a disappointment. Gucci and Prada shoes I've seen locally, although stylish in a sort of dissolute way, have been poorly constructed (Blake stitched or glued-on soles).

So that's my take on it. Note that I haven't addressed the value for money question--just absolute quality. Have at it, guys! 

Vancouver


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## thinman

GT3, I get my Tramezzas from their outlet store in Cabazon, CA, near Palm Springs. I wouldn't visit them right now, though. I was there last Friday and they had less than 1/2 dozen pairs of Tramezzas. I discovered quite by accident that the best time to visit is probably February or March when the new year's models have been introduced and the previous year's models are just hitting the outlet store. It may be worthwhile visiting them in several months, though, as a saleswoman told me they receive shipments periodically.

Roger, Ron Rider wrote a very favorable comparison of the Ferragamo Tramezza line and Edward Green shoes on StyleForum, but it was unfortunately lost in the Great Crash of '06. I hope he will weigh in here.

Best regards,
thinman


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## GT3

Thanks thinman... 

Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


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## Roger

> quote:_Originally posted by thinman_Roger, Ron Rider wrote a very favorable comparison of the Ferragamo Tramezza line and Edward Green shoes on StyleForum, but it was unfortunately lost in the Great Crash of '06. I hope he will weigh in here.


I agree. Those I've seen have been lovely shoes--very nice substantial leather and first-class welted construction. Perhaps their rightful ranking is more around the 5 mark above. We have a Ferragamo store in Vancouver (the only one in Canada, I think), and they carried the Tramezzas (at over $1000 Cdn.--so about $880-$900 US at today's exchange rates) up until about a year or so ago. They dropped them in the Vancouver store, because they couldn't sell them, and now all they stock is the lesser Ferragamo lines. For those interested, you do see Tramezzas on eBay from time to time, and the usual eBay price seems to be around $325-$340. At that price, they're a great buy.

Vancouver


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## thinman

Morris, I own one pair of Gucci horsebit loafers and I think the Tramezzas are much better made, use much, much higher quality leather, and are a better buy as well.

Roger, I have limited first-hand experience with Italian shoes, so I can't give an informed rating scheme. I would, however, rate Tramezzas on a par with the Sutor Mantellassi shoes I've seen, although I may not have seen their top of the line. I'd also rate Tramezzas above the Gravati and Moreschi shoes I've seen in terms of construction and I like the Tramezza styling better as well, except for loafers. I won't compare leather quality, since I believe the three companies select their leathers with different purposes in mind. I own one pair of Testoni monkstraps and the leather is thinner and more prone to creasing than the leather used in my Ferragamos, though my Testonis may not be their top line. I have no experience with Branchini or Artioli shoes. Compared with some quality English shoes I own, I rate Tramezzas slightly better than my C&J Handgrades and Grenson Masterpiece shoes, but below my one pair of John Lobb Paris RTW shoes.

I will also say that I like Italian shoes because I can find them on sale for affordable prices more easily than English shoes and the styling frequently appeals to me as well.

Best regards,
thinman

Edit: Roger, I didn't see your post immediately above mine, as I was composing my post. I agree that I would rank Tramezzas around 4-5, with the caveats mentioned above. And at the ebay/outlet store prices, I think they're a great buy. I'd better add a disclaimer, since I'm sounding like a Ferragamo salesman: I have no connection whatsoever with Ferragamo, etc., etc.


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## Morris

> quote:_Originally posted by thinman_
> 
> Morris, I own one pair of Gucci horsebit loafers and I think the Tramezzas are much better made, use much, much higher quality leather, and are a better buy as well.


Oh, no ...make no mistake ... I offered Gucci in jest. I too own a pair and find them of average quality, at best. At one time they might have been stylish, but they are so common that I find them trite and boring.

I have a pair of SF pebble grain monk straps that I bought about 10 years ago. They are of good quality, not great, but I wear them rather infrequently. Not necessarily a comment on the shoe. Rather my style has evolved over the years.

-- Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance.


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## briiian13

Even the U.S. Classic line of Santoni offer excellent quality and style.
Remington, Braden, Brenden, Thorpe are good models. 
Of course their FAM line is excellent eye candy and decadent leather.

*Do YOU want to know the meaning of life?*


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## antirabbit

Has anyone ever heard of Franco of Bergamo?

Dont Eat The Mints....


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## antirabbit

Has anyone ever heard of Franco of Bergamo?

Dont Eat The Mints....


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## bwep

I have a difficult time ranking and appreciate jcusey's list. That said, Roger's opinion is very close to my own. I own many of the shoemakers on his list and wholeheartedly agree. I believe Bontoni to be in the list and Tramezza line from Ferragamo. Zegna shoes are of the Tramezza variety by Ferragamo in a joint venture. The rest of Ferragamo's lines are as Thinman suggests, dreck. I think Mantelassi's are my favorites.

"...always aspire to live simply and elegantly." - Madeleine Finn


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## CharlieChannel

Underrated: Moreschi
Fratelli Rossetti
Overated Ferragamo
maybe Santoni

Charlie Channel-hunter


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## FMINUS

> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by thinman_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by pt4u67_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by GT3_
> 
> Don't even go close to Ferragamo. I have had mine for about 4 months and the leather is tearing my flesh while the sole develops small holes to expose some sort of black foamy substance. Piece of s**t... I am glad I only payed $130 at the Rack, probably $130 too many.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. I remeber seeing a pair of brown suede lace ups there once and thought they were quite attractive. The angel of discretion however talked me out of it and now I'm glad.
> 
> By the way, does anyone have an opinion on Moreschi. Some of their styles are more down to earth and just wondering about the quality.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Try the Ferragamo Tramezza line. I own 4 pairs, which I bought at an outlet store for $359, $349, $159, and $159 (the two less expensive pairs were floor display models in perfect condition). They typically sell on ebay for something near $340, so they can be found for much less than the retail price of $600-700. The are very well made, use excellent leather, and are stylish without being over-the-top. In fact, one of my $159 pairs is a very conventional-looking brown punched captoe model.
> 
> The Tramezza shoes have a fabric label sewn to the insole with the company name, "Salvatore Ferragamo", and the company name on a gold plate attached to the sole at the waist. "Tramezza" is embossed on the sole just forward of the gold plate. Don't discount the Tramezza shoes just because Ferragamo's other lines of shoes may be dreck.
> 
> Best regards,
> thinman
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> thinman - What outlet store did you score those shoes? I do like the Ferragamo look, but leather is made of steel.
> 
> Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard
Click to expand...

Try on some Tramezzas and you will sing a different tune! I LOVE EM!

Signed, F-


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## EL72

Speaking of Tramezzas, I am interested in some styles I have seen on eBay and wonder about the sizing. I am told they are quite narrow and come in B - D - EE widths and that I should go with EE if I usually need a 9.5e. Is this true? What about length? Will a 9.5EE be a good fit or should I go with a 10? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

EL


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## FMINUS

> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
> 
> Speaking of Tramezzas, I am interested in some styles I have seen on eBay and wonder about the sizing. I am told they are quite narrow and come in B - D - EE widths and that I should go with EE if I usually need a 9.5e. Is this true? What about length? Will a 9.5EE be a good fit or should I go with a 10? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks
> 
> EL


Most Ferragamos E sizing is EE. So go for the EE. SOME ferragamos are very narrow, but some are not it just depends on the shoe.

Signed, F-


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## Thracozaag

Harris is also quite nice.

koji


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## thinman

> quote:_Originally posted by bwep_
> 
> I have a difficult time ranking and appreciate jcusey's list. That said, Roger's opinion is very close to my own. I own many of the shoemakers on his list and wholeheartedly agree. I believe Bontoni to be in the list and Tramezza line from Ferragamo. Zegna shoes are of the Tramezza variety by Ferragamo in a joint venture. The rest of Ferragamo's lines are as Thinman suggests, dreck. I think Mantelassi's are my favorites.
> 
> "...always aspire to live simply and elegantly." - Madeleine Finn


bwep, I keep scouring the outlet stores looking for Mantellassi's, as they are reportedly excellent shoes. I once saw them in the NMLC in Grapevine Mills, but I was short of cash and didn't ask if they had my size. I'd really like one of their split toe Norwegians. Maybe Lance will offer one in my size someday...

Best regards,
thinman


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## Thracozaag

> quote:_Originally posted by thinman_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by bwep_
> 
> I have a difficult time ranking and appreciate jcusey's list. That said, Roger's opinion is very close to my own. I own many of the shoemakers on his list and wholeheartedly agree. I believe Bontoni to be in the list and Tramezza line from Ferragamo. Zegna shoes are of the Tramezza variety by Ferragamo in a joint venture. The rest of Ferragamo's lines are as Thinman suggests, dreck. I think Mantelassi's are my favorites.
> 
> "...always aspire to live simply and elegantly." - Madeleine Finn
> 
> 
> 
> bwep, I keep scouring the outlet stores looking for Mantellassi's, as they are reportedly excellent shoes. I once saw them in the NMLC in Grapevine Mills, but I was short of cash and didn't ask if they had my size. I'd really like one of their split toe Norwegians. Maybe Lance will offer one in my size someday...
> 
> Best regards,
> thinman
Click to expand...

 The top-tier Mantellassi's are about as nice as it gets for RTW Italian shoes.

koji


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## EL72

> quote:_Originally posted by FMINUS_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quote:_Originally posted by EL72_
> 
> Speaking of Tramezzas, I am interested in some styles I have seen on eBay and wonder about the sizing. I am told they are quite narrow and come in B - D - EE widths and that I should go with EE if I usually need a 9.5e. Is this true? What about length? Will a 9.5EE be a good fit or should I go with a 10? Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks
> 
> EL
> 
> 
> 
> Most Ferragamos E sizing is EE. So go for the EE. SOME ferragamos are very narrow, but some are not it just depends on the shoe.
> 
> Signed, F-
Click to expand...

How about the Nostro (wholecut in suede)? Daniely (captoe bal)? or Merald 2 (perf captoe monk)?

Any idea on how those Tramezzas are sized? Very narrow last...? Thanks

EL


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## FMINUS

Daniely and Merald2 are a tad more rounded and wide while Nostro is a bit narrower. But they are not as narrow as the Canary Last.

You should be fine with an EE with all 3 of those shoes. Just beware of the Canary and Charlie Lasts offered by Ferragamo which are EXTREMELY narrow.

Signed, F-


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## charle22

Is > $2,400. RTW Lattanzis worth it, when with a few more Franklins bespoke can be had? Just my 0.02[8D]


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## EL72

FMINUS said:


> Daniely and Merald2 are a tad more rounded and wide while Nostro is a bit narrower. But they are not as narrow as the Canary Last.
> 
> You should be fine with an EE with all 3 of those shoes. Just beware of the Canary and Charlie Lasts offered by Ferragamo which are EXTREMELY narrow.
> 
> Signed, F-


Thanks F. I appreciate the info.

EL


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## bwep

Thinman

Those split toe Norwegian's by Mantellassi are awsome!! Very unique and can easily be dressed up or down. I am a big fan of bluchers to begin with, but these are special. I am told through very good sources that they are Nolan Ryan's personal favorite shoes. Not that that should matter, but I am a baseball freak. My 5 yo just completed his first T-ball game and actually had a clue. One for one, one run scored and two put outs while playing shortstop. They won 18 to 4. Actually they batted around the lineup (12 to 14 kids) and kept having to get back out on the field with the 5 run rule.


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## rider

Found this thread doing some research on what you guys have to say about suedes...thought it was worth bringing back up.

Really, it's almost impossible to 'rank' Italian shoe manufacturers as the production of just about every plant is extremely flexible. In addition, many models (of just about every brand I can think of) are made in other plants that might have a specific type of work that a buyer/store details. Also, despite the fact that 'cottage' work has been outlawed by the EU, this practise continues, and is critical to the survival of many factories. With Italy, you need to judge the shoe, not the label. For example, we (Martegani) can make the same pattern from Good to Excellent, depending on what the store/customer wants to invest. Take a plain penny strap...it can be detailed with a simple machine stitched vamp, on a simple single sole, Blake construction, basic insole in a basic calf with no ironing, and sell here, fairly, for around $275. It will last a few years and, for most, be a good investment. You can take the same pattern, hand-stitch the vamp, use a heavy Blake/Rapid construction (4mm mid-sole + 5mm outsole), a nice 2mm perforated leather insole and use our best upper leathers (called Iron) which are all analine dyed by hand in the factory and heavily ironed before finishing and sell here, fairly, for $500. These will last as long as you care for them, and will exceed, IMO, the investment. Same factory, different investment of time/materials, different shoes. 

With some brands, the dependence on sub-contract work can create a large gap in quality levels from collection to collection. Sometimes this is intentional, sometimes not. The current economics of the industry do not allow, for most, the option of making one 'style' of work under one roof and remaining profitable. Only the smallest 'workshops' can do this....Lattanzi, for example, and a tight production like this requires at least a 30% premium. 

The English have it even more difficult. The problem there, however, is not the demands of production, as they all stick with basically the same cat in a different bag, but the demands of Labor...fewer and fewer workers means more and more contract work - 'an incestuous bunch' is how the agent for an English brand, mentioned here at least 10 times a day, described the Northampton manufacturers over lunch recently.

Some of the more dependable Italians:

Branchini
Artioli
Lattanzi
Alexander Nicolette
Speroni
Gravati
Walles
Pino Giardini
Tanino Crisci
Martegani, of course

Actually, there are many, many great Italian shoes no one hear has ever heard of....


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## Trenditional

GT3 said:


> Don't even go close to Ferragamo. I have had mine for about 4 months and the leather is tearing my flesh while the sole develops small holes to expose some sort of black foamy substance. Piece of s**t... I am glad I only payed $130 at the Rack, probably $130 too many.
> 
> Honesty pays, but it doesn't seem to pay enough to suit some people. - F. M. Hubbard


Is the shoe from their "Studio" line? This is their lowest "entry level" line and yes, some of these shoes leave alot to be desired. Of the 6 pair of Ferragamos I have, only one is a Studio. They are going on a year old and have actually held up well and are fairly comfortable.

The Tramezza's on the other hand are wonderful!


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## odoreater

I love my Tramezzas and they are my Italian shoe of choice (I have the Fervido bit loafer and the Merald2 monk). They have excellent construction and just the right amount of flair in their styling. In fact, now that my shoe collection has gotten kind of big, I'm planning on making all my future shoe purchases Edward Green during the sales and Tramezza from ebay and the SF outlet.


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## JLibourel

For all the flak that Ferragamo gets in these fora, I have three pairs of Ferragamo rubber-soled bluchers, two of which I have had for six years, the other for three years. I have always found them thoroughly satisfactory shoes and rotate them interchangeably with my A-Es.

On the other hand, I was looking at a pair of vaunted Tramezzas. They looked very flimsy and insubstantial to me, as do the lower-priced Santonis. However, perhaps because I am a large man, I have a strong preference for sturdy-looking shoes, which rules out a large percentage of Italian shoes.


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## qwerty

*Tods*

Any word on the relative quality of Tods leather- and rubber-soled shoes (basically shoes other than their driving mocs)?


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## Morris

I have no experience with them, but a well turned out colleague swears by Tanino Crisci.


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## kitonbrioni

rider said:


> Found this thread doing some research on what you guys have to say about suedes...thought it was worth bringing back up.
> 
> Really, it's almost impossible to 'rank' Italian shoe manufacturers as the production of just about every plant is extremely flexible. In addition, many models (of just about every brand I can think of) are made in other plants that might have a specific type of work that a buyer/store details. Also, despite the fact that 'cottage' work has been outlawed by the EU, this practise continues, and is critical to the survival of many factories. With Italy, you need to judge the shoe, not the label. For example, we (Martegani) can make the same pattern from Good to Excellent, depending on what the store/customer wants to invest. Take a plain penny strap...it can be detailed with a simple machine stitched vamp, on a simple single sole, Blake construction, basic insole in a basic calf with no ironing, and sell here, fairly, for around $275. It will last a few years and, for most, be a good investment. You can take the same pattern, hand-stitch the vamp, use a heavy Blake/Rapid construction (4mm mid-sole + 5mm outsole), a nice 2mm perforated leather insole and use our best upper leathers (called Iron) which are all analine dyed by hand in the factory and heavily ironed before finishing and sell here, fairly, for $500. These will last as long as you care for them, and will exceed, IMO, the investment. Same factory, different investment of time/materials, different shoes.
> 
> With some brands, the dependence on sub-contract work can create a large gap in quality levels from collection to collection. Sometimes this is intentional, sometimes not. The current economics of the industry do not allow, for most, the option of making one 'style' of work under one roof and remaining profitable. Only the smallest 'workshops' can do this....Lattanzi, for example, and a tight production like this requires at least a 30% premium.
> 
> The English have it even more difficult. The problem there, however, is not the demands of production, as they all stick with basically the same cat in a different bag, but the demands of Labor...fewer and fewer workers means more and more contract work - 'an incestuous bunch' is how the agent for an English brand, mentioned here at least 10 times a day, described the Northampton manufacturers over lunch recently.
> 
> Some of the more dependable Italians:
> 
> Branchini
> Artioli
> Lattanzi
> Alexander Nicolette
> Speroni
> Gravati
> Walles
> Pino Giardini
> Tanino Crisci
> Martegani, of course
> 
> Actually, there are many, many great Italian shoes no one hear has ever heard of....


Most interesting and detail posting--may the Italitan makers adapt and increase.


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## Harrydog

I am a big fan of Borgioli. I don't doubt JCusey's statement about low quality shoes for other brands, but I have seen only the stuff they put their name on and I think they are splendid.

The one I bought at Francos

and a pair at Gentlemens Jodhpur

Excellent quality IMHO and good value as well, though prices are creeping up. The first pair from Francos was a real find at 325.00.

I am not a fan of peccary/ostrich etc and there some of the Italian styles leave me cold. I haven't been impressed with Moreschi. Their handmade offerings (as in the Reggiolo)










were disappointing in person.

It is interesting how much more conservative the Martegani line is that runs through Francos compared to what you see on Pelle Line for example.

My preference is for a classic style with an Italian flare...and for that I like the Martegani and Borgioli presented at Francos.


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## jcusey

Harrydog said:


> I am a big fan of Borgioli. I don't doubt JCusey's statement about low quality shoes for other brands, but I have seen only the stuff they put their name on and I think they are splendid.


I didn't intend what I wrote about Borgioli making crap for some designer brands to be a disparagement. The shoe business is tough, and outfits like Borgioli need to take their business where it comes. If Designer X is willing to pay Borgioli to make shoes from corrected-grain leather with cardboard heel lifts, well, it's not wrong for Borgioli not to leave that money on the table. As you write, the shoes that they actually put their name on are very good to excellent, at least from what I've seen.


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## rider

Borgioli does a very nice job...as the son is taking more and more contol they are greatly increasing the quality they offer. They do some very aggressive styles as Japan is their most important market. They also are the leading sample factory for a large portion of the brands in Italy....including Ferragamo, Gucci, Prada, etc. Because of this, they are one of the first factories to see what the designers are offering a year or so out, so they are always fun to talk to!


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## Roger

rider said:


> They also are the leading sample factory for a large portion of the brands in Italy....including Ferragamo, Gucci, Prada, etc. Because of this, they are one of the first factories to see what the designers are offering a year or so out, so they are always fun to talk to!


What exactly does this mean, Ron? Is it that they make up samples of the designs that Ferragamo, et al., come up with? If so, do they not subsequently get the contract to actually make the runs of shoes?


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## David Bresch

How about De Tomaso? You know what I want...


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## Isaac Mickle

I have a Ferragamo question to put into this long-dormant thread.

I am wearing a pair of brown suede Studio monkstraps. They fit well, they look good, and I paid very little for them. They are, however, very heavy. The soles in particular seem just heavy--there's no other way to explain it.

Is this the cement? I am in the old cement boots here? I would not guess that glue would add a lot of weight to a shoe like this, but I can think of no explanation for the weight of these shoes. Can anyone explain?


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## indylion

antirabbit said:


> Has anyone ever heard of Franco of Bergamo?
> 
> Dont Eat The Mints....


I got 2 pairs of shoes by Bergamo a couple of years ago. I had never heard of them before buying them. They retailed for around $450 and are good quality shoes. Franco was not written on the shoe or box.


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## satorstyle

thinman said:


> Try the Ferragamo Tramezza line. I own 4 pairs, which I bought at an outlet store for $359, $349, $159, and $159 (the two less expensive pairs were floor display models in perfect condition). They typically sell on ebay for something near $340, so they can be found for much less than the retail price of $600-700. The are very well made, use excellent leather, and are stylish without being over-the-top. In fact, one of my $159 pairs is a very conventional-looking brown punched captoe model.
> 
> The Tramezza shoes have a fabric label sewn to the insole with the company name, "Salvatore Ferragamo", and the company name on a gold plate attached to the sole at the waist. "Tramezza" is embossed on the sole just forward of the gold plate. Don't discount the Tramezza shoes just because Ferragamo's other lines of shoes may be dreck.


I'm a big fan of the Tramezza's as well. I'm not sure they still carry the line so snatch up what you can. Great looking shoes without being pretentious, also very comfortable I've found for extended periods of time.


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## Artisan Fan

I can vouch for the quality of the Tramezzas. I had some MTM ones done at Neimans and they have held up very nicely and look great. Quality materials and construction from what I can tell.


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## acidicboy

CharlieChannel said:


> Underrated: Moreschi
> Fratelli Rossetti
> Overated Ferragamo
> maybe Santoni
> 
> Charlie Channel-hunter


I have to disgree with Santoni being overrated. The tan-sock FAMs are very decadent (as Brian likes to say), very well made and stands out in design yet does not step on the garish side. The orange-sock line on the other hand is fashion forward enough to be used on more social occasions. Imho, they're definitely better than any Moreshci or Rossetti I saw.


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## walterb

*Italian Shoes-Some Thoughts*

I have owned many of the Italian brands discussed. I have owned dozens of Ferragamo's over the years but not the Tramezzas. Ferragamo is a large producer and there are many nice and durable models in addition to the Tramezzas. I don't care much for the horse bit loafers but I have a pair of black Ferragamo loafers that I wear with a tuxedo that I have had for almost thirty years. Generally, they are much better shoes than they get credit for on this site.

I think Sutor Mantellassi are probably the best made Italian shoes. There are limited number of models and they can be difficult to find but they are also quite distinctive. I managed to pick up two pairs of their top of the line shoes at NMLC over the last year at very favorable prices.

Tanino Crisci are even more difficult to find but also extremely well made and very beautiful shoes. There is a small shop somewhere in Manhattan and also a shop in Florence, Italy where I think they are made. I have only owned one pair but they were exceptional.

I also like Fratelli Rosetti shoes but they don't seem to get much attention here. They have a NY store.

J P Tod's are sold at am outlet in Orange County NY. I bought several pair a few years ago. They look nice for casual summer wear but they are cheaply made and will fall apart after a season. I will not probably buy these again at any price.

I think Zegna shoes are overrated poorly styled crap for the most part. I have never owned a pair because I don't like the styling. Ditto for Prada. I don't care much for Bruno Magli either although I do have one pair that seem well made but are a bit bland style wise. I will not buy these again either.

I have owned two pair of Testonis over the years. Very well made and very stylish. I highly recommend them.

Ninety-nine percent of the Artioli shoes I have ever seen are hideous and I wouldn't wear them if they were given to me. That being said, my favorite shoes ever were a pair of tan Artioli loafers. They were just different enough yet were elegant and sturdy at the same time. They had a small brass bit on the side an the seams were finished with a piping that was quite different. I doubt I will ever find another pair like them.

Anyway, those are some thoughts. I think you need to keep an open mind regarding Italian shoes. They are in general looked down upon here, but I think the better ones are as good as the (RTW) English made shoes and can usually be found at much better prices.


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## David Bresch

I wonder, will Martigani produce norvegese construction shoes? Do they? Where can De Tomaso shoes be obtained?


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## rider

> I wonder, will Martigani produce norvegese construction shoes? Do they? Where can De Tomaso shoes be obtained?


No....we made some samples but had no interest from retailers. It's just not worth developing for specials - would have to wholesale them as well.

I suggest sticking to Lattanzi.

As for DeTomasso, did you email them?


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## David Bresch

I am not sure: did I ever have their contact information? I am not sure why people continue to recommend Lattanzi. No matter how nice they are, my understanding is that their prices are stratospheric and I just do not have that kind of money to blow.


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## Concordia

David Bresch said:


> I am not sure why people continue to recommend Lattanzi.


Perhaps because Lattanzi is very good at making shoes?


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## David Bresch

Very funny.


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## arenn

David Bresch said:


> I am not sure: did I ever have their contact information? I am not sure why people continue to recommend Lattanzi. No matter how nice they are, my understanding is that their prices are stratospheric and I just do not have that kind of money to blow.


That's probably part of their appeal.


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