# Grenfell Raincoat (O'Connell's vs. Ben Silver)



## A Purist (Dec 30, 2003)

Does anyone know the difference between the Grenfell raincoat at O'Connell's Clothing that costs $1200 and the one at Ben Silver that costs $850?
Thanks in advance.

Ben Silver
https://www.bensilver.com/fs_storefront.asp?root=66&show=312&display=11339&group=1

O'Connell's
https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/raincoats.php


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## cglex (Oct 23, 2006)

Different lining and liner so probably different makers. The Ben Silver seems short and stops at the knee. I don't know about the O'Connell. There were some recent posts that lead me to suspect that there is more than one cloth in the market place called Grenfell these days. I have been thinking about the O'Connell model myself.


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

I cannot comment on the two "Grenfell" coats. There are many classic brand names that now exist in name only. The "names" are purchased and the products that are now produced are rarely remotely like their namesakes. When the real "Grenfell" cloth was being produced it was the finest cloth of it's type on the planet. When the importer told me the cloth was no longer being produce, I traced down the company through the Brittish Trade Mission. ( This was a number of years ago.) I called and the individual who answered told me that his Japanese firm had purchased the Grenfell Company. I asked if I could purchase some cloth and was told that his firm was no longer producing cloth. I wondered why someone would buy a company who had one product and stop making the product. The gentleman didn't even know what Grenfell cloth was. I sent him a swatch and told him if any cloth was found I would buy it. He called me and said he did not find any cloth. I recently was told that the family that ran the "real' Grenfel company was going to resume producing the cloth. I sent a number of emails and have never been contacted.
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
www.chipp2.com/blog/


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

The head of the family that produced Grenfell cloth, Haythornthwaite, is(was?) an IT management employee with Traditional Weatherwear (the makers of the brand name Mackintosh, headquartered in Cumbernaud, Scotland) and the Haythornthwaite's former "Nelson" plant (I think in Lancashire) is a facility of TW. (Subject to have changed within the past few years.) Ditto Mr. Winston's comments.

As with O'Connell's Invertere reversible (1/2 Grenfell) the Grenfell raincoat may be New Old Stock (NOS). Invertere is apparently out of business. (Being 1/2 tweed and 1/2 Grenfell, the Invertere would seem to be the best buy of the O'Connell's @ about the same price.)

There is a UK web site selling UK made "Grenfell" outerwear of cloth woven in Italy. Possibly a BS link? www.suitsmen.co.uk/mens-coats/rain-coats


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## M. Charles (Mar 31, 2007)

Nick Hilton's shop in Princeton NJ also sells these Grenfell coats. Not sure how much or how they differ from the ones linked.


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## epl0517 (Apr 7, 2005)

*J Press*

Yet another option is J Press. Theirs don't carry the Grenfell label, but they have the signature tattersall lining, and are made in Scotland. The fabric and design is identical. I can only assume they come from the same place. In past years they have offered the khaki/olive color, as shown now on their web site, but I was in the New York store recently, and saw them in a khaki/stone color. You could call to find out what is available.


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## 2trainsrunning (Jan 27, 2011)

*A big thank you to participants in the forum*

Hello all. I realize that the comments I'm about to add are being posted long after this thread has closed, but after all, timelessness is part of the charm of classic menswear. Although I am a newbie to AskAndy, I have perused the forums for some time and have found the comments and shopping suggestions to be quite helpful, no more so than in regard to the fabled Grenfell raincoat under discussion here.

I have recently grown disenchanted with the look of my Burberry microfiber trench coat and have been casting about for a single-breasted replacement. Since I am already a Ben Silver and J. Press customer, naturally I began searching at those websites. As luck would have it, several weeks ago I happened to be visiting Charleston so I stopped by Ben Silver's retail shop for the first time. It's a very impressive store and while the stock had been pretty well picked over by the time I got there, they did still have a few Grenfell raincoats on the floor. I tried on one that was at least nominally my size (42) and thought that it was too snug under the arms and skimpy in length so I passed on it. After returning home I searched for more information about Grenfell and came across this thread. I have never shopped at O'Connell's but was intrigued that they also offered a Grenfell raincoat though as observed here, at a much higher price than the one I tried on at Ben Silver. I also saw that M. Charles mentioned that Nick Hilton in Princeton carries the Grenfell line. Although I live just outside Philadelphia and have been to Princeton many times, I have never visited his shop which is off the main drag. So, last Saturday I tooled up to Princeton and had my first encounter with Nick and his store. Nick himself was a lovely fellow who treated me like an honored guest. Even more important, he still had three of the Grenfell raincoats in stock along with Grenfell covert cloth coats and several shorter jackets. Much to my shock, the Grenfell raincoat that Nick carried was the same price as O'Connell's, so I swallowed hard and tried on the 42 assuming - and possibly praying a little - that it wouldn't fit. Indeed, it was just a tad tight under the arms over a sports jacket, but not nearly so snug as the one I tried on at Ben Silver. In addition, it seemed to me that this coat was longer extending below my knees. I was struggling for reasons not to purchase it but the detailing and overall quality of the coat were making me equivocate. It was then that I noticed that there were signs all over the store indicating that a sale was in progress. I screwed up my courage and inquired how much of a discount applied to the Grenfell raincoat? Much to my shock and delight, I was told that all Grenfell items were 50% off! Needless to say, that piece of information overcame whatever sales resistance remained and I am now the proud and happy owner of a prized Grenfell raincoat. I'm still pinching myself at my good fortune. BTW, the first thing I did when I got home was to run some water over a corner of the fabric. It may as well have been made of aluminum. Water just beaded up on it and ran right off; the weave is that tight. I'm confident that I could have held it under the faucet for an hour and there wouldn't have been any penetration whatsoever. I thought that I should also mention that the plaid lining differed from the coats I saw at Ben Silver; the one I purchased has a green stripe in the plaid lining whereas the one at Ben Silver is red. Ben Silver does have a reputation for having products made specifically for them so it's very possible that the same company made both coats.

So, I want to thank all of you who posted to this thread. You have all been enormously helpful in my quest. I also want to tip my hat to Paul Winston whose New York store, Chipps, I shopped at for many years when I used to stay at the nearby Yale Club. While Paul makes a very good point that defunct clothing names can be bought and sold and may no longer bear any resemblance to the original, I feel that the Grenfell raincoat I purchased from Nick Hilton is exceptionally well-made and as I indicated above, a heckuva value at the price I paid. (Note: I would have given a bit more consideration to the J. Press Spencer Mackintosh but they recently raised their price from $890.00 to $1050.00, a fact that they blame on increases in the cost of cotton.)


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## sclemmons (Mar 4, 2006)

Double check the buttons and reinforce the sewing if necessary. Leave the sleeves a little long and you can take them up when they fray. I hope you have it forever. I am on my third Grenfell raincoat in 30 years. One wore out. One was lost to the airlines, and the third is in my closet. Your post makes me want to get it out and wear it.

They are not as waterproof as you think but they get the job done.


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## 2trainsrunning (Jan 27, 2011)

Thanks for the maintenance tips on the Grenfell raincoat; I will definitely take a close look at the buttons. I haven't had occasion to actually wear it outdoors yet. I'm still at the stage of taking it out of the hall closet and just staring at it from time to time. Still, your experience is encouraging and it's great to know that the Grenfell reputation for durability is well-earned.

Re: the waterproof attributes of the fabric - I have read similar comments about Ventile so I'll have to see what happens when I get stuck in a good downpour. I am confident, however, that with the warm lining I won't get cold even if a bit a water soaks through.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

sclemmons said:


> Leave the sleeves a little long and you can take them up when they fray.


THIS is excellent advice!


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

I acquired an older, Grenfell of England trench coat a few months back. Is there an easy way to tell if it is made from Grenfell cloth or just some kind of poplin? The cloth isn't as thick as the stuff my Burberry is made from...


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

The fabric will be tough as nails and nearly impenetrable to water (it's the tightness of the weave that makes Grenfell special), but it's not particularly heavy like you might imagine. My wife's got one and it repels watch much better than my Burberry.


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## sclemmons (Mar 4, 2006)

The fabric is a superfine gabardine-like twill that is all cotton and much tighter than the Burberry. It is the furthest thing from poplin. The workmanship on the coat is off the chart impeccable, also an uptick from Burberry. I do not think the waterproofness is a function of the weave, but a function of the water repellant finish they use.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

^^ Interesting, I didn't realize they put any coating on the cloth. I always assumed it was the 600 threads per inch that made Grenfell cloth so water resistant. 

From the Grenfell website: 
"Special yarns had to be spun from the finest Egyptian Cotton. The looms had to be specially strengthened, but when the fabric was woven, further problems arose. The fabric was so naturally waterproof that it proved almost impossible to get the dye into the fabric."


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## sclemmons (Mar 4, 2006)

No doubt that is true. What is also true is that after a dry-cleaning or two, the fabric absorbs rainwater unless you reproof it. The best technical fabrics from Arcteryx and Patagonia do the same thing. Of course Grenfell cotton would do likewise. That is why they all require reproofing with Scotchguard or the equivalent.

If you have a traditional cotton raincoat from Burberry or London Fog, the effect is the same after a dry cleaning or two.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ah, that's it. I never dry-clean my rainwear (or pretty much anything else for that matter)


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

sclemmons said:


> The fabric is a superfine gabardine-like twill that is all cotton and much tighter than the Burberry. It is the furthest thing from poplin. The workmanship on the coat is off the chart impeccable, also an uptick from Burberry. I do not think the waterproofness is a function of the weave, but a function of the water repellant finish they use.


Gotcha. Thanks for the reply. The fabric is 100% cotton and very much like a gabardine.



Cardinals5 said:


> Ah, that's it. I never dry-clean my rainwear (or pretty much anything else for that matter)


I probably need to scotchguard my coat. The seller dutifully mentioned that she had washed it in the washing machine. :icon_headagainstwal Oh well, the coat fits great, even if she did shrink it.


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## Reptilicus (Dec 14, 2004)

I purchased a Grenfell raincoat from Ben Silver. https://www.bensilver.com/Classic-English-Raincoat,11339.html When I received it, the tag identified it as the Campbell. It is a full length raincoat.


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