# Full Windsor question.



## srmd22 (Jun 30, 2009)

Does anyone wear a full Windsor tie knot? I have tried it a couple of times, but it takes up so much material to tie the knot, that invariable I am left with almost no tail to tuck in the little band in the back of the narrow part of the tie, and so the little tail flaps around. Or, the tie just comes out way to short, because all the material is sucked up into the knot.

I don't have much use for full Windsors, but it irks me. Do you need an extra long tie to make this one work, or is there some trick I am missing?


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## g3dahl (Aug 26, 2011)

My approach: don't do it. From what I have read, not even the Duke of Windsor did. 
I don't care for the look, but YMMV.


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## CaligulaStyle (Sep 11, 2012)

Can't do it with thick ties, and you usually need extra long


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

I'm 5'9" and most ties would be the perfect length if I wanted to use a windsor knot. But I don't want to use a windsor knot. Most ties should work alright with a Windsor if you're up to 6' tall and wear your trousers at the proper height.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Like Matt said, the proper wearing of trousers is very important to the perceived shortness of the tie. I have an 18" neck, so I need an extra long to pull off a full Windsor.


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't care for the look of the full Windsor on me, so don't really use it. But I have tried them and find I spend a lot of time ting and re-tying to get the length finessed. Maybe if i wore them frequently it would become a mich faster process. But it does take a lot of tie length.


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## stephenkarl (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm 6'6" (with a long torso), and have managed to pull it off without specifically purchasing an xl tie. I normally only attempt it if I am wearing a v-neck sweater or a waistcoat so a slightly shorter tie is irrelevant - and even then it needs to be a lighter weight tie which I am attempting to add weight to the knot.


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## SMARTBYCHOICE (Mar 16, 2007)

I sometimes think that the full Windsor belongs to premiership footballers (with the exception of David Beckham) and the half Windsor is far more becoming and gentile with a cutaway collared shirt.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

SMARTBYCHOICE said:


> I sometimes think that the full Windsor belongs to premiership footballers (with the exception of David Beckham) and the half Windsor is far more becoming and gentile with a cutaway collared shirt.


Quite right. The full windsor is a dreadful abomination and mainly worn by men who do not wear a tie so very often. Half windsor is the smartest looking tie knot.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm 5'10"ish, wear my pants at the proper height (maybe even a little higher), and wear a half windsor every day. With 95% of my ties, it leads to the tail being within 2 inches of the front blade. A full windsor would, invariably, make the tail too short, and the knot would look ridiculous.


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## walrusbt (Jan 10, 2013)

I just do the half. Which as long as we're on it, is that what everyone else tends to do?


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

walrusbt said:


> I just do the half. Which as long as we're on it, is that what everyone else tends to do?


Based on what I've read, most here do a FIH, but the younger crowd trends towards the half windsor.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Wow, a lot of full Windsor hate. I've only recently started wearing it and quite like it for spread and cutaway collars. It definitely won't work with thick ties, and does not look good with skinny / narrow ties (not my thing anyway). 

Yes, it does result in a short tail, but not 'too short to tuck'. Hard to explain, but for me the trick is to try to compact each of the folds as tightly as possible before doing the final loop. This leaves enough tail and leads to a less bulky knot.


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## SMARTBYCHOICE (Mar 16, 2007)

Roger, in my early 20's I had a brief love affair with the double windsor, in fact 10 or so years ago you could buy extra wide ties that allowed for the knot, the trend came from premiership foorballers, I remember seeing Wayne Rooney signing for MUFC and he had a wide knot and one of those high collared shirts from Hawes and Curtis, truely, ghastly, unfortunatly I did emulate this style to a degree. 

After finding a job in insurance I soon began to adopt a slightly more conservative proffesional dress code, I now look back aghast at those days with a smirk, I don't profess to know all about gents attire but I'm learning. My one piece of advice is that big collars and wide windsor knot ties are a no no. But if you rock the look - go for it


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I do a four in hand with thicker ties on a button down; otherwise it's almost always the half windsor for me.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Well for starters its called a Windsor knot, not a full Windsor. Just because there is a half-Windsor doesn't mean the Windsor can be called a full Windsor.

And no I never use it, it looks horrible, too symmetrical, too short and stubby. And with thick ties, it's almost impossible to tie and with fine silk ties a Windsor just falls apart, and with shorter ties it takes up too much material, making the finished tie too short. I have 3 or 4 other knots I use that look and work much better.


half-windsor
4-in-hand
double-4-in-hand


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## SMARTBYCHOICE (Mar 16, 2007)

Bit harsh earl! But I can see your passion sir.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

I find the symmetry of the Windsor appealing, versus the comparative lopsided asymmetry of the half Windsor. I really don't think a knot can be too symmetrical, any more than a tie can hang too straight or too centered. 

I have definitely seen some 'too bulky' Windsor knots, but as I tried to explain, I try to minimize the bulk. Perhaps I'll try to post a pic. I have also seen some FIH that are too skinny and insubstantial, to my eye, for the collar they occupy.

I may be all on my own here, but that's fine, I like the look. I may only use it one day a week, but I like the change of pace.


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

I must admit I suffer OCD in a few situations, and symmetry is one of my hang ups. That, and having had the Windsor crammed into my head as the only knot when I was in the military, sees me wearing the Windsor almost exclusively. I do have a couple of ties that are thick, requiring a half-Windsor, and I still get a funny feeling everytime I tie a half-Windsor. the thing is, I've got a huge head, so it makes the Windsor, and the Full-Windsor:icon_smile_big:, look normal.


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## srmd22 (Jun 30, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Well for starters its called a Windsor knot, not a full Windsor. Just because there is a half-Windsor doesn't mean the Windsor can be called a full Windsor.
> 
> And no I never use it, it looks horrible, too symmetrical, too short and stubby. And with thick ties, it's almost impossible to tie and with fine silk ties a Windsor just falls apart, and with shorter ties it takes up to much material, making the finished tie too short. I have 3 or 4 other knots I use that look and work much better.
> 
> ...


Earl: "Full" is a descriptive adjective which can be applied to anything. It is not meant as a re-configuration of the term "Windsor" to "full-Windsor." It means a complete or conventional Windsor, and helps to highlight the object of discussion, which is the Windsor that is not the half Windsor, that's all. It is not incorrect, as with the term "double Windsor," which is considered a misnomer. If I say "full" glass of water, I haven't changed the meaning of "glass of water." It just directs ones attention to the point that it is not a half glass. Of course, it all depends on how you see things-- is the glass half empty, or half full?

I am a big fan of the double 4-in-hand as well, for when you want to plump up the knot but still keep it asymmetrical.

I guess this all begs the question: does anyone use other styles? I occasionally do, just for a change, or to fit a particular shirt. Eg, Pratt, St. Andrews, Plattsburgh, Kelvin, Balthus, or, I believe the skinniest knot and quickest, simplest to tie: the Oriental. Just to name a few. I also once tried the Eldregdge knot -- you can Google it, it is really funny if you haven't seen it. I actually wore it to work one day, and it WAS noticed.


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## Rolex Luthor (Jan 5, 2009)

RogerP said:


> Wow, a lot of full Windsor hate.


Only for good reason.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Flairball said:


> I must admit I suffer OCD in a few situations, and symmetry is one of my hang ups. That, and having had the Windsor crammed into my head as the only knot when I was in the military, sees me wearing the Windsor almost exclusively. I do have a couple of ties that are thick, requiring a half-Windsor, and I still get a funny feeling everytime I tie a half-Windsor. the thing is, I've got a huge head, so it makes the Windsor, and the Full-Windsor:icon_smile_big:, look normal.


Huge head helps! :icon_smile_big: I have rarely if ever heard of symmetry cast as such an extreme aesthetic negative. But then I haven't spent a lot of time on this forum. :smile:

Okay, I appreciate I am subjecting myself to further public ridicule, but even allowing for differing subjective preferences, I have a hard time undestanding the horrible abomination point of view.


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## ZackP (Jan 10, 2013)

RogerP said:


> Huge head helps! :icon_smile_big: I have rarely if ever heard of symmetry cast as such an extreme aesthetic negative. But then I haven't spent a lot of time on this forum. :smile:
> 
> Okay, I appreciate I am subjecting myself to further public ridicule, but even allowing for differing subjective preferences, I have a hard time undestanding the horrible abomination point of view.


You look pretty good with it. i think it comes down to the shape and size of your head and neck. It's just a knot, it's not like it's a major thing that will ruin the lives of millions. I like smaller-ish knots because I'm all around smaller being 5'5", but if it works for the outfit or you, it works.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

The Windsor knot is an abomination. It's a circus act, not a way to dress.

Most people who refer to a windsor mean a half-windsor (which is also not great, but far better), and many who say half-windsor mean a four-in-hand (which is the only long [i.e., non-bow] tie knot needed or worn by almost all the best-dressed men of the last 100 years).


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

SMARTBYCHOICE said:


> Roger, in my early 20's I had a brief love affair with the double windsor, in fact 10 or so years ago you could buy extra wide ties that allowed for the knot, the trend came from premiership foorballers, I remember seeing *Wayne Rooney signing for MUFC* and he had a wide knot and one of those high collared shirts from Hawes and Curtis, truely, ghastly, unfortunatly I did emulate this style to a degree.


Laugh out loud. However, I think that the giant knot (tied slightly loose) is still popular with quite a few 18 year old office workers.

Here is a visual reference of Wayne Rooney's tie knot:


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## SMARTBYCHOICE (Mar 16, 2007)

Thats it, fergies is perfect, poor wayne. It comes a time in a chaps life when he prefers the look of the manager to that of the premiership footballer.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

ZackP said:


> You look pretty good with it. i think it comes down to the shape and size of your head and neck. It's just a knot, it's not like it's a major thing that will ruin the lives of millions. I like smaller-ish knots because I'm all around smaller being 5'5", but if it works for the outfit or you, it works.


Thanks Zack. I do find the general reaction here quite over the top. Ghastlyegregiousabsurdabomination doesn't leave room for much of anything worse.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I'm faintly surprised that we have gotten this far without mention of James Bond's view that the full windsor is the mark of a cad.


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## SMARTBYCHOICE (Mar 16, 2007)

James Bond never trusted a man who boasted a Windsor Knot; "It was tied with a Windsor knot. Bond mistrusted anyone who tied his tie with a Windsor knot. It showed too much vanity. It was often the mark of a cad." -From Russia With Love


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

SMARTBYCHOICE said:


> James Bond never trusted a man who boasted a Windsor Knot; "It was tied with a Windsor knot. Bond mistrusted anyone who tied his tie with a Windsor knot. It showed too much vanity. It was often the mark of a cad." -From Russia With Love


As if by magic it appears. :icon_smile:


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

And, of course, the actual Duke of Windsor's characterization of the Windsor knot as "the most unhandsome [thing or knot - quotations vary] I have ever seen."

The DoW, of course, wore four-in-hands. He liked larger knots, so he simply chose ties with a chunkier interlining, and cut a little broader above the blade. No reason to resort to trickery, just choose a tie cut the way you like.


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## walrusbt (Jan 10, 2013)

CuffDaddy said:


> Most people who refer to a windsor mean a half-windsor (which is also not great, but far better), and many who say half-windsor mean a four-in-hand (which is the only long [i.e., non-bow] tie knot needed or worn by almost all the best-dressed men of the last 100 years).


I feel ashamed to admit this is me....what I'd been calling half windsor is actually FIH.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)




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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Bond didn't like the Windsor? I wonder how Superman, Batman or the Green Lantern felt? Oh wait, thet're not real either.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I usually tie a half windsor, although today, with a button down shirt and a thicker tie, I did the four in hand.

I don't think you can make blanket statements about knots. It all depends on that particular tie and that particular shirt collar. 

I'll say that with the caution that really large windsor knots don't look good very often. I will occasionally use a windsor, though, but I'll guess only once or twice a year, with a spread collar shirt (and if the knot's too big, I shift to the half windsor.)


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

RogerP said:


> Bond didn't like the Windsor? I wonder how Superman, Batman or the Green Lantern felt? Oh wait, thet're not real either.


Batman may have worn a cape but you can be certain that Bruce Wayne would sport a half windsor. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Shaver said:


> Batman may have worn a cape but you can be certain that Bruce Wayne would sport a half windsor. :icon_smile_wink:


Actually, on the TV show in the 1960s, Bruce Wayne almost always wore an ascot, but that's another thread, another discussion and another argument!

I've not seen the Batman movies, I suspect that our hip, modern Bruce Wayne goes open-necked and tieless.


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

Jake Genezen said:


> Laugh out loud. However, I think that the giant knot (tied slightly loose) is still popular with quite a few 18 year old office workers.
> 
> Here is a visual reference of Wayne Rooney's tie knot:
> 
> View attachment 6611


No way that's a Windsor knot. It's complete lack of symmetry is making my head hurt. Must be a half-Windsor, or the rare 3/8ths- Windsor. Anyway, it won't matter what knot he uses, that tie is horrible.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

RogerP: Try the half-Windsor or double four-in-hand. Both of those will still have a bit of visual weight in the knot.



CuffDaddy said:


> And, of course, the actual Duke of Windsor's characterization of the Windsor knot as "the most unhandsome [thing or knot - quotations vary] I have ever seen."
> 
> The DoW, of course, wore four-in-hands. He liked larger knots, so he simply chose ties with a chunkier interlining, and cut a little broader above the blade. No reason to resort to trickery, just choose a tie cut the way you like.





forsbergacct2000 said:


> Actually, on the TV show in the 1960s, Bruce Wayne almost always wore an ascot, but that's another thread, another discussion and another argument!
> 
> I've not seen the Batman movies, I suspect that our hip, modern Bruce Wayne goes open-necked and tieless.


With respect, I suggest you do some research before assuming. Searching for "christian bale bruce wayne" took me all of a few seconds in Google Image Search. 

It's all a bit power look for me, but I suppose that works for the playboy millionaire image Wayne is trying to cultivate.










In contrast to Christian Bale, Adam West's look was was more of a comfortable old money look (also works considering his family history).


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Flairball said:


> No way that's a Windsor knot. It's complete lack of symmetry is making my head hurt. Must be a half-Windsor, or the rare 3/8ths- Windsor. Anyway, it won't matter what knot he uses, that tie is horrible.


That giant blob is definitely not what I have in mind when I reference a Windsor knot.



Jovan said:


> RogerP: Try the half-Windsor or double four-in-hand. Both of those will still have a bit of visual weight in the knot.


Thanks - I have used the double four-in-hand on occasion where a thin tie yields a too-small knot for my usual four-in-hand. But the four-in-hand is definitely the knot that, for me, works with most shirts and ties.

For some reason I can't seem to warm to a half-Windsor. That may be because I prefer symmetry to asymmetry in a tie knot.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Actually, on the TV show in the 1960s, Bruce Wayne almost always wore an ascot, but that's another thread, another discussion and another argument!
> 
> I've not seen the Batman movies, I suspect that our hip, modern Bruce Wayne goes open-necked and tieless.


Please, don't undermine the extremely serious subject of Bruce Wayne's tie by bringing up the silly sixties t.v. show. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

I might have been mistaken. Is there a Double Windsor? The how to tie graphic above is nothing like my Windsor. This is how I tie the perfect knot.


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Please, don't undermine the extremely serious subject of Bruce Wayne's tie by bringing up the silly sixties t.v. show. :icon_smile_wink:


So,...we should not be modeling our fashion after The Mod Squad reruns?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

***BIFF!*** ***POW!*** ***BOOM!***


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Shaver said:


> Please, don't undermine the extremely serious subject of Bruce Wayne's tie by bringing up the silly sixties t.v. show. :icon_smile_wink:


Oh come on, even back then it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It was actually inspired by the _un-deliberate_ campiness of the 1943 Batman movie serial. I have it on DVD... it's a rather funny, if often racist, look back in time to the culture of WWII-era USA. Those "shifty eyed Japs"! :crazy:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Jovan said:


> Oh come on, even back then it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. It was actually inspired by the _un-deliberate_ campiness of the 1943 Batman movie serial. I have it on DVD... it's a rather funny, if often racist, look back in time to the culture of WWII-era USA. Those "shifty eyed Japs"! :crazy:


I know, I was endeavoring in my own humble way to be frivolous.

Returning to the James Bond theme I saw a movie the other day I'd never heard of - the first adaptation (for American t.v.) of Casino Royale from 1954. Barry Nelson played Bond and Peter Lorre played Le Chiffre. All the threads I've seen on here talking about the various actors who have played Bond and I don't recall ever seeing this mentioned. You ever heard of it?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Shaver said:


> Please, don't undermine the extremely serious subject of Bruce Wayne's tie by bringing up the silly sixties t.v. show. :icon_smile_wink:


You're tempting me to fly to England to sing and play the 60s theme song for you.


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## Virginia-Style (Oct 21, 2010)

I regularly wear a Windsor with my longer ties and it looks nothing like Roony's tie nor that football announcer on ESPN with the knot 5 times the size of his head... It looks more like the picture posted by RogerP, and if that's an abonination... Well I guess I will have to see if I can possibly find a way to sleep tonight!


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

RogerP said:


> Bond didn't like the Windsor? I wonder how Superman, Batman or the Green Lantern felt? Oh wait, thet're not real either.


If Bond being a fictional character bothers you, then change that to Ian Fleming. Now you have a real best-selling author who hates windsor knots.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> You're tempting me to fly to England to sing and play the 60s theme song for you.


That would be cool! It's a long time since I picked up my guitar but I can remember how to play that groovy riff, we could have a jam session. :icon_smile:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Flairball said:


> Is there a Double Windsor?


No, Double Windsor is just another misnomer like full Windsor for people who don't realise that tie wearing gentlemen know what the Windsor knot is, and don't need to be told about it in comparison to the half-Windsor.

I consider it in the same class of comparisons error as when some people call Ireland "Southern Ireland" because there happens to be a UK statelet called Northern Ireland. There is no such country as Southern Ireland just as there is no such knot as the full or double Windsor that differs from the Windsor knot.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Matt S said:


> If Bond being a fictional character bothers you, then change that to Ian Fleming. Now you have a real best-selling author who hates windsor knots.


You believe that every protagonist is a literal projection of the author? Seriously? Or was that a joke? Sometimes it's hard to tell. Should we run out immediately and arrest all authors whose main character is, say, a serial killer?

And I'm not bothered in the least - I find the sartorial preferences of fictional super-spies to provide invaluable insight. Rules to live by, really. I don't know how I would manage to dress myself on a weekend morning without considering one very important question - what would Jason Bourne wear?

(That was a joke) :smile:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Flairball said:


> I might have been mistaken. Is there a Double Windsor? The how to tie graphic above is nothing like my Windsor. This is how I tie the perfect knot.


What you mean, is that's you tie the Gross Abomination? :tongue2: That's how I do it as well - and that is also what I understand to be a Windsor knot. If we've got that wrong, I'm sure we will be set straight presently.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

RogerP said:


> You believe that every protagonist is a literal projection of the author? Seriously? Or was that a joke? Sometimes it's hard to tell. Should we run out immediately and arrest all authors whose main character is, say, a serial killer?
> 
> And I'm not bothered in the least - I find the sartorial preferences of fictional super-spies to provide invaluable insight. Rules to live by, really. I don't know how I would manage to dress myself on a weekend morning without considering one very important question - what would Jason Bourne wear?
> 
> (That was a joke) :smile:


Seriously. Fleming wrote Bond as a fantasised version of himself, if you didn't know. Both Fleming and Bond hate windsor knots, as well as long sleeve shirts and shoelaces.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Matt S said:


> Seriously. Fleming wrote Bond as a fantasised version of himself, if you didn't know. Both Fleming and Bond hate windsor knots, as well as long sleeve shirts and shoelaces.


Seriously, what Bond/ Fleming like / hate obviously has great significance and deep meaning to you. It doesn't to me. So are all shoes with laces 'abominations' that only 'cads' would wear according to your standard? Does that make any rational sense to you as the basis for a rule of general application? I initally thought the whole Bond justification was a joke - but like I said - it's sometimes hard to tell.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

RogerP said:


> Seriously, what Bond/ Fleming like / hate obviously has great significance and deep meaning to you. It doesn't to me. So are all shoes with laces 'abominations' that only 'cads' would wear according to your standard? Does that make any rational sense to you as the basis for a rule of general application? I initally thought the whole Bond justification was a joke - but like I said - it's sometimes hard to tell.


It doesn't have significance to me. I think you misunderstood me. I took it your objection was to people admiring the views of a fictional character rather than a real man, not the objection to the windsor knot in general. I surely do not share Fleming's opinions on lace-up shoes and shirt sleeves. I also do not have Fleming's military experience to judge people on their tie knot. I do not like the Windsor knot, but it has nothing to do with Ian Fleming. If I'm going to cite someone for a dislike of the Windsor knot I'd go with the Duke of Windsor, who is better know for his dress.


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

RogerP said:


> What you mean, is that's you tie the Gross Abomination? :tongue2: That's how I do it as well - and that is also what I understand to be a Windsor knot. If we've got that wrong, I'm sure we will be set straight presently.


It seems that the graphic of the perfect knot, The Windsor, I've posted varies from the knot in the graphic drlivingston posted on page two. While it is clear that the graphic I posted is a superior version of the greatest knot ever, what is the knot listed as a Windosr in the other graphic?

Perhaps there is some confusion in the spy world, and 007 actually hated the other "Windsor" but liked my superior Windsor. Is that a knot, the "Superior Windsor"? There should be.

BTW did Bond have a preference for odd numbers or even numbers?


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Flairball said:


> It seems that the graphic of the perfect knot, The Windsor, I've posted varies from the knot in the graphic drlivingston posted on page two. While it is clear that the graphic I posted is a superior version of the greatest knot ever, what is the knot listed as a Windosr in the other graphic?
> 
> Perhaps there is some confusion in the spy world, and 007 actually hated the other "Windsor" but liked my superior Windsor. Is that a knot, the "Superior Windsor"? There should be.
> 
> BTW did Bond have a preference for odd numbers or even numbers?


drlivingston's graphic for the windsor is somewhat incorrect. It skips every other step, thus making no sense if you look at it closely, but it aims to achieve the proper windsor knot.


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

Matt S said:


> drlivingston's graphic for the windsor is somewhat incorrect. It skips every other step, thus making no sense if you look at it closely, but it aims to achieve the proper windsor knot.


So it is possible the the great 007 actually hated the improper Windsor, but found the proper Windsor acceptable. I have no trouble believing that many people are tying the Windsor improperly, as a google image search turned up multiple how-to's of the inferior version, yet one was hard pressed to find the superior version. It seems the masses are being mis-directed.

We shall have to get out the "weejun" board, and consult Mr Flemmimng.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Shaver said:


> That would be cool! It's a long time since I picked up my guitar but I can remember how to play that groovy riff, we could have a jam session. :icon_smile:


I actually play keyboards and sing. If you had two keyboards, I could also run the bass line. (I did that for at least 75% of my band gigs back when I did them. I now do mostly solo stuff.)


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I actually play keyboards and sing. If you had two keyboards, I could also run the bass line. (I did that for at least 75% of my band gigs back when I did them. I now do mostly solo stuff.)


Very Ray Manzerak. :icon_smile:

I don't suppose you have any youtube links that you would care to share?


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## ZackP (Jan 10, 2013)

You guys are tempting me to wear only Balthus knots from now on :icon_smile_big:


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Flairball said:


> So it is possible the the great 007 actually hated the improper Windsor, but found the proper Windsor acceptable. I have no trouble believing that many people are tying the Windsor improperly, as a google image search turned up multiple how-to's of the inferior version, yet one was hard pressed to find the superior version. It seems the masses are being mis-directed.
> 
> We shall have to get out the "weejun" board, and consult Mr Flemmimng.


I just did a Google search for how to tie a Windsor knot and I saw a lot of Half Windsor diagrams. Fleming may have been okay with the Half Windsor, but the "full" Windsor knot (the one you prefer) would be the one he dislikes. There are two reasons people dislike the Windsor knot: its large size and its symmetry. The Half Windsor cuts down on the size but is still symmetrical, thus it is not as offensive to some.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Flairball said:


> It seems that the graphic of the perfect knot, The Windsor, I've posted varies from the knot in the graphic drlivingston posted on page two. While it is clear that the graphic I posted is a superior version of the *greatest knot ever*, what is the knot listed as a Windosr in the other graphic?
> 
> Perhaps there is some confusion in the spy world, and 007 actually hated the other "Windsor" but liked my superior Windsor. Is that a knot, the "Superior Windsor"? There should be.
> 
> BTW did Bond have a preference for odd numbers or even numbers?


Since some scoff at the use of the term "Full Windsor", perhaps we should just refer to it as the "Greatest Knot Ever"?


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

RogerP said:


> Since some scoff at the use of the term "Full Windsor", perhaps we should just refer to it as the "Greatest Knot Ever"?


Flairball seems to have a hard time believing that anyone would think it otherwise.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

No. There are none of those. Trust me, I can jam. PM Eagle or Andy if you want more info.

I know the Batman 1960s them (which neither of them can probably attest to.)


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Shaver said:


> Very Ray Manzerak. :icon_smile:
> 
> I don't suppose you have any youtube links that you would care to share?


Sorry, see above!


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

Matt S said:


> Flairball seems to have a hard time believing that anyone would think it otherwise.


Hey now. It's the greatest knot ever. Greatest-knot-ever. But I'm done with the Windsor. From now on I will only tie the full-double-triple Lindsay-quadruple dimple-Windsor. And I shall dream of 007 every evening after wearing it.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I consider it in the same class of comparisons error as when some people call Ireland "Southern Ireland" because there happens to be a UK statelet called Northern Ireland. There is no such country as Southern Ireland just as there is no such knot as the full or double Windsor that differs from the Windsor knot.


If I had a pound for every time a UK post office employee asked me "Southern Ireland?", when I'm posting something back home to Dublin, I'd have enough for an new suit. Happens every time.


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## ZackP (Jan 10, 2013)

Is this the googol Windsor?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> No. There are none of those. Trust me, I can jam. PM Eagle or Andy if you want more info.
> 
> I know the Batman 1960s them (which neither of them can probably attest to.)


That's OK, I do trust you. :icon_smile:

You may not recall but we discussed the subject via PM between ourselves earlier last year.

Anyway, here's a cracking version of the Batman theme, by Quebec's own Voi Vod:





Although this version by The Jam is rather groovy too:


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I do remember our series of PMs, although I don't remember if I let you know that at least a few AAAC members have heard me.

As far as the knot in your cartoon, the sad thing is that some folks actually appear to tie THAT knot.

(That kind of a Windsor would probably not be supported, even by Windsor fans. The half Windsor is a nice neat knot; I use it probably at least 80% of the time. We agree on that one, I think.)


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You all need to lay off Matt. Besides being an expert on James Bond clothing he's a pretty well-dressed guy himself.


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