# AAAC Law Student Roll Call



## tew (Oct 30, 2005)

present!


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## DaveInPhilly (May 16, 2005)

I, no longer, am a law student. 8-D 

How far along are you?

There are a good number of attorneys amoung our ranks, and there has been quite a bit of good advice that they have handed down to us young'ins. If you have some time you might want to search through some of the archives.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Good luck in law school and I hope you all work hard to raise the public's perception of lawyers. As a recent thread of mine stated, I am not the biggest fan of trial attorneys. I actually was so distressed by my latest lawyerly run in I gave semi-serious thought of a return to school for my JD so I could defend medical cases against the bloodsucking slime ball ambulance chasers that have so drastically changed the nature of US healthcare. 

But I am sure they are good people.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

2L

I have been working as a summer associate at a small firm (of relatives) all summer, doing mostly real estate and probate work.

After comparing my summer experience to some friends that interned at a bigger firm downtown, I can honestly say the small firm life is probably the one I will choose, regardless of grades or accolades.

I particularly like probate work.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

My son is a 1L (started two weeks ago). He will head back to the Army as a JAG when he is done.

M8


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## tew (Oct 30, 2005)

I'm starting as a 1L in three days or so.

I *know* there are more law students hiding in the woodwork here. We should have some solidarity -- speak up!

Coolidge, what kind of a suit are you wearing for your 2L interviews?


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

It's been 10 years since I was a law student. I think I have now spent almost as much time on the interviewer side of the desk as I did on the interviewee side. (Thanks, dude, now I feel old.) 

The classic interview suit is dark solid blue with a white shirt and lace-ups. 
Darker is more authoritative. I know it's boring, but it's what most lawyers wear, so you can't go wrong. A subtle pattern is probably just as acceptable, as long as it's conservative. 

But quality and fit are more important than whether you wear a solid or a patterned fabric. If it fits, you will look (and be) more comfortable. And then you exude confidence. It's good all-around. 

And don't skimp on the shoes. I've seen people interview for lawyer jobs wearing penny loafers. 

And don't wear hair gel. It's something that young people do, and it screams "I have no experience!" 

And write a thank-you note. Don't be ingratiating. Just send something short and sweet, thanking them for their time.


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

Tew, 
I just started my third year last week. Have fun and remember to put everything in perspective. In other words, word hard, but stay sane; yhe paper chase is a scary and scandalous thing. 
Take commercial paper from JJ White. He's an interesting guy, to say the very least.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

1L, finished my first week of classes on Friday. Found someone I want to date, too. :icon_smile:


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

tew said:


> I'm starting as a 1L in three days or so.
> 
> I *know* there are more law students hiding in the woodwork here. We should have some solidarity -- speak up!
> 
> Coolidge, what kind of a suit are you wearing for your 2L interviews?


I have not lined up any interviews at the moment. More "people I know who I am going to talk to" in the next month or so.

As I am not trying for a spot in a big firm for next summer, the sense of urgency (online bidding to be 'screened' by the megafirms does not appeal to me) of having as many interviews as possible right now is not really pushing me very hard.

I am going to speak to the people I know. Then I am going to canvas with letters and resume at some medium sized places.

Then I am going to do what I have been meaning to do for a while, which is join some more local organizations, make some friends, and ask them to give me something to do. People tend to like me. It has carried me thus far.

If, however, I am interviewed, I will wear my c. 1985 Brooks navy pinstripe sack, forward point--breaking my tradition this time without the pin, just to avoid making waves--and either older Brooks 3.25" navy tie with white dots, or Press navy/red repp, oxblood wingtips.

I am probably the wrong person to ask for law school advice. I am interested in trusts/estates and also legal history, so most of what I am taking is related to that, family law, or other things of interest. I am not taking classes just because they are on the bar exam, since the BarBri classes I sense should be adequate coverage. Also, I made the terrible mistake of taking Evidence this summer, which I had no interest in and bombed, so I am never taking anything "just to take it" again.


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

rojo said:


> 1L, finished my first week of classes on Friday. Found someone I want to date, too. :icon_smile:


I did too, and I am still with her two years later!
Coolidge24, you didn't enjoy evidence? It might sound dorky, but that was one of favorite - and certainly most valuable - classes I have taken. 
Good luck this year boys.
Best 
Brad


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

rojo said:


> Found someone I want to date, too. :icon_smile:


It took me until the first week of the Spring 1L semester, but I met someone in law school, too. We somehow went the entire first semester passing like ships in the night, never laying eyes on each other. But we had mutual friends, who set us up.

That was 12 years ago this January. Our son is turning 3 next week.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> I did too, and I am still with her two years later!
> Coolidge24, you didn't enjoy evidence? It might sound dorky, but that was one of favorite - and certainly most valuable - classes I have taken.
> Good luck this year boys.
> Best
> Brad


Well I had it during july term...3 credits crushed into 3 hrs each Wednesday night, Thursday night and friday morning for a month.

About all I remember from it is relevance, hearsay, and something about a Crawford problem--well, and more recently, the damage of .15 it did to my GPA. Too much too fast, I think.

I'm glad you guys found The Lady In Question at law school, I could never be with another law student, I don't think.  Yikes!


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

We're in different sections, so thus far it's been a week of flirting in the halls and library, to the extent that I'm sure other students are going to start noticing if they haven't already. We're both about 12 to 15 years older than the average 1L, have no tattoos or piercings in evidence, and a similar aesthetic when it comes to clothes. In other words, we stand out from the jeans, cargo shorts, and t-shirts, untucked short-tailed shirt with vertical stripes, leather mini-skirt and tight halter top crowd. (You folks are expecting to be working in law firms three years from now??) I'm also amazed by the popularity of the bedhead (male) hairdo. It must take these guys 20 minutes to carefully arrange and gel it into place every morning, so that all day long they can look like they just got out of bed and didn't even comb it. How ironic is that?

Anyway, I'm not sure if I've latched on to a tease or a serious prospect. Time will tell.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Just graduated a few months ago if that counts.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

I read law, back in the day when that was allowed. Does that count? All that was required then to practice was passing the bar (Georgia, 1950s)


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

rip said:


> I read law, back in the day when that was allowed. Does that count? All that was required then to practice was passing the bar (Georgia, 1950s)


Didn't they also require some kind of apprenticeship for a certain number of years?


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## Submariner (May 6, 2006)

1L, just finished my first week


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

Coolidge24 said:


> Well I had it during july term...3 credits crushed into 3 hrs each Wednesday night, Thursday night and friday morning for a month.
> 
> About all I remember from it is relevance, hearsay, and something about a Crawford problem--well, and more recently, the damage of .15 it did to my GPA. Too much too fast, I think.
> 
> I'm glad you guys found The Lady In Question at law school, I could never be with another law student, I don't think.  Yikes!


I understand the summer class dilemna. I took 3 courses in between my first and second years. In the end, .15 points - as I am sure you know - is not going to make or break you. 
As to dating a fellow law student, it can be a very difficult venture at times. She is pretty tightly wound and I am more of a roll-with-the-punches kind of guy. What was really a shock to the system though - on top of dating some new gal in this really whacked out microcosm of society - was the fact that my Dad died unexpectedly during the third week of my first semester. Facts of life like that force you to put things into perspective and realize the sun also rises after a "B."


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> I understand the summer class dilemna. I took 3 courses in between my first and second years. In the end, .15 points - as I am sure you know - is not going to make or break you.
> As to dating a fellow law student, it can be a very difficult venture at times. She is pretty tightly wound and I am more of a roll-with-the-punches kind of guy. What was really a shock to the system though - on top of dating some new gal in this really whacked out microcosm of society - was the fact that my Dad died unexpectedly during the third week of my first semester. Facts of life like that force you to put things into perspective and realize the sun also rises after a "B."


Yeah my deal is I'm not interested in competing with my significant other...plus it seems a lot of law school girls look for the "next level up"...ie, she is a 1L, you must be a 2L, she is a 2L you must be a 3L, she is a 3L, you must be an assocaite at Cravath Moore and Swain or a doctor.

I'd rather date a history teacher or bio major, or someone who will never want to talk law shop with me.


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## Earthmover (Jan 3, 2005)

Coolidge24 said:


> Yeah my deal is I'm not interested in competing with my significant other...plus it seems a lot of law school girls look for the "next level up"...ie, she is a 1L, you must be a 2L, she is a 2L you must be a 3L, she is a 3L, you must be an assocaite at Cravath Moore and Swain or a doctor.
> 
> I'd rather date a history teacher or bio major, or someone who will never want to talk law shop with me.


This is interesting... especially since I found most law school females a bit, hm... how do I put this delicately -- offensive to the eye compared to, say, psychology majors at undergrad. Aside from the fact that they were law students, they were not exactly a good looking bunch. I guess some of them definitely try to step up, but I think most people I know just try to find someone that they click with, like anyone else.

That being said, I would be highly against dating a lawyer. Most do not make very pleasant talk.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

odoreater said:


> Didn't they also require some kind of apprenticeship for a certain number of years?


Yes, that was what "reading law" meant. If memory serves, one was required to read law with a member of the bar for a minimum of three years before being eligible to take the bar exam, which was, I believe, much more difficult then than now, yet a much higher percentage of applicants passed then than now. Understand, I am pulling this information out of a very musty and disused section of my memory, so I will not take offence should someone have information to the contrary.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

rip said:


> Yes, that was what "reading law" meant. If memory serves, one was required to read law with a member of the bar for a minimum of three years before being eligible to take the bar exam, which was, I believe, much more difficult then than now, yet a much higher percentage of applicants passed then than now. Understand, I am pulling this information out of a very musty and disused section of my memory, so I will not take offence should someone have information to the contrary.


There is still a handful of states that allow you to do it, including Vermont. Vermont requires four years of law office study and this continues to be a well-accepted route to bar admission. In fact, one of the justices on our Supreme Court and at least one trial court judge, the administrative judge for the state, read for the bar.

Vermont is also unusual, if not unique, in requiring a clerkship before bar admission. I think it's three months of supervised law office study.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

Earthmover said:


> This is interesting... especially since I found most law school females a bit, hm... how do I put this delicately -- offensive to the eye compared to, say, psychology majors at undergrad.Aside from the fact that they were law students, they were not exactly a good looking bunch.


I didn't want to say that either, but, bingo



> Most do not make very pleasant talk.


That too



> There is still a handful of states that allow you to do it, including Vermont. Vermont requires four years of law office study and this continues to be a well-accepted route to bar admission. In fact, one of the justices on our Supreme Court and at least one trial court judge, the administrative judge for the state, read for the bar.
> 
> Vermont is also unusual, if not unique, in requiring a clerkship before bar admission. I think it's three months of supervised law office study.


Something tells me, just from the disconnect between law school and real lawyering that I saw at my first summer associate job this past summer, that reading law was probably a much more practical and thorough way of knowing what you are doing.

I think there are few if any who would be prepared to practice based on law school alone, but probably a substantial number who might be by that method. About the only "practical" things I learned to do at law school so far, (besides the method of thinking through things, I grant you) are motion memoranda, research, and appellate briefs.

I only used the research this summer.


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## DaveInPhilly (May 16, 2005)

Coolidge, I would wager that you are correct. I have found that law school teaches you only how to think like a lawyer. All I needed to know for the bar exam I learned in barbri and all I need to know about actually practicing law I am learning (slowly) as I go. Its a rather painful process.


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## samblau (Apr 2, 2005)

3L present and accounted for, not a big fan of law school at this point, study my ass off for B- in classes I like, study the night before for A's and Barbri for everything in between, did get an A+ for a paper that *cross your fingers* will get published...its a 40 pager with "only" 80 summod footnotes. Currently working part time at a securities firm here in NYC, not too much but I enjoy it and the pressure level is fairly low. As for dress, my prof. who gave me the A+ wore Paul Stuart exclusively. I have kept the same job for 2 years so I have not interviewed much, I have the basic suits, navy (Vestimenta with thin gray pinstripe) and medium charcoal with a tanish stripe (Brooks GF), not too loud but they have a little flair, basic assortment of dress shirts, ties, decent AE laceups and you are good to go. Unfortunately the market is ultra-competitive and my class rank is nothing spectacular/nothing to be ashamed of. I worry constantly about next year but hope that my experience (New York City Law Dept. Offc. of the Corp. Council pre law school, Securities Firm and the fact that I ran my ebay store during law school and may have a paper published) will at least get me in to a full time rather than temp job. If I can offer one piece of advice....there is a book called "Anonymous Lawyer" that I reccomend about a series of blog entries by a high-profile hiring partner, funny/scary at the same time...that lets you take this profession for what it is, good and bad, and if you can accept that only a few people get big $$$ out of law school and they will be worked like dogs you will be much more content, as the poster above correctly stated, there is life after B's (especially considering my first year curve was to a 2.65!), Accept that there will be nepotism, favortism, people earing $2000 more per week than you second summer not to mention out right cheating etc. and relish in the fact that you can and will succeed in spite of it with hard work, a little luck and a positive attitude, easier said than done but certainly not impossible. Best of luck to you and the other students on the board as well as a hearty thanks to those current attorneys who have offered sound advice. Feel free to e-mail me directly if you like.
-sam


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

Coolidge24 said:


> Yeah my deal is I'm not interested in competing with my significant other...plus it seems a lot of law school girls look for the "next level up"...ie, she is a 1L, you must be a 2L, she is a 2L you must be a 3L, she is a 3L, you must be an assocaite at Cravath Moore and Swain or a doctor.
> 
> I'd rather date a history teacher or bio major, or someone who will never want to talk law shop with me.


Competing with your girlfriend can be an odd thing I suppose, but we have unspoken agreement, if you will, that we do not talk about our grades at home. It's really not that difficult of an arrangement but, I guess it took some work at first. 
As to the gals' constantly seeking to upgrade to a "more marketable" fella, well I guess I can say that we do not go to Yale! (I hope I am not assuming too much, but there are not too many law schools in CT and not too many graduates outside of Ivy League schools would even be seen by Cravath. I take your point to be: who the hell wants anything to do with gals like that; I agree, life is too short to worry about your partner looking for "next man, when next man ain' the . . . with the plan." 
Ciao


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> Take commercial paper from JJ White. He's an interesting guy, to say the very least.


Is J.J. White still at Michigan? He was well thought of when i was there back in the 70's. He held his head high as maybe the only professor there who thought his job was to convey information (content) to the students. I didn't have him for Comm Trans, but he was one of the two professors I had for Negotiations. (The other was Andy (something?). He was a psychiatrist, and I don't think he's there anymore.)

Enjoy your time in school and don't forget to take classes based on their intrinsic intellectual interest.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

LotharoftheHillPeople said:


> Competing with your girlfriend can be an odd thing I suppose, but we have unspoken agreement, if you will, that we do not talk about our grades at home. It's really not that difficult of an arrangement but, I guess it took some work at first.
> As to the gals' constantly seeking to upgrade to a "more marketable" fella, well I guess I can say that we do not go to Yale! (I hope I am not assuming too much, but there are not too many law schools in CT and not too many graduates outside of Ivy League schools would even be seen by Cravath. I take your point to be: who the hell wants anything to do with gals like that; I agree, life is too short to worry about your partner looking for "next man, when next man ain' the . . . with the plan."
> Ciao


Yeah you read me well...but that is what they seem to want here. Not Cravath necessary, but AN associate, preferably in NY, which we seem to get a number of out of here.

Just so I don't take credit for being somewhere I'm not, I'm University of Connecticut School of Law in Hartford.

But really, thank you for assuming I went to Yale, that was a nice feeling.

UConn is the "other" good law school in the state and "one of the leading public law schools in the country" according to our scenic website 

Actually some profs are urging us to get out of CT so the reputation will improve the rankings.

Quinnipiac is getting better too but is still 3rd tier.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

Big $$$. I suppose that's relative. What seems like big $$$ to me might not be to you. As a 1L at the very beginning of the year, right now I'm more focused on shedding some responsibilities so I can focus better on school.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> Is J.J. White still at Michigan? He was well thought of when i was there back in the 70's. He held his head high as maybe the only professor there who thought his job was to convey information (content) to the students. I didn't have him for Comm Trans, but he was one of the two professors I had for Negotiations. (The other was Andy (something?). He was a psychiatrist, and I don't think he's there anymore.)
> 
> Enjoy your time in school and don't forget to take classes based on their intrinsic intellectual interest.


He is still there.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Thanks. And I just remembered that the psychiatrist who taught the class with him was Andy Watson. No longer listed on the faculty.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Is Catherine MacKinnon still at U of Mich? If she is, go in drag to her class, I am sure you will get a better grade. At least read some of her gender feminist writings beforehand if you have to take her for something.


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## Tyto (Sep 22, 2004)

1L, halfway through my second week. 

I'm one of the two oldest students in my class. Ironic that both of us are in the same section....


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