# Allen Edmonds new sportcoats



## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

Anybody bought one yet? They are imported which is a bit disappointing but what about construction, sizing, etc....


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Always wanted a Goat Suede Blazer. Doesn't come in short, though. The big questions are "Is it recraftable" and "When will it be available at the Blazerbank?"

https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/product_6601879_1_40000000001_-1?categoryId=&top_category=&Colorval=Tan&Sizeval=44&Widthval=Long&utm_source=cse&utm_medium=Google&utm_campaign=AE7002%20%20LNG%2044&CAWELAID=1607803190&"cagpspn=pla"


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## clothingconnoisseur (Oct 9, 2005)

Next on my list, right after Rolex shoes ...


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Who makes Allen Edmonds' ties? (serious question)


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## Randy Y (Apr 19, 2012)

I left a nastygram in the comments on one of their coats that I expect better 

I mean seriously, it's Allen Edmonds, I'm supporting of you wanting to sell clothes -- but do it Allen Edmonds style. You better have my size (or make it)! I did look at the blazers at my local retail outlet, but for those prices -- YOU BETTER HAVE MY SIZE, and take care of alterations for me.

Maybe they will get better as their collection increases.


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## lbv2k (Feb 16, 2010)

cdavant said:


> Always wanted a Goat Suede Blazer. Doesn't come in short, though. The big questions are "Is it recraftable" and "When will it be available at the Blazerbank?"


LOL. Quite funny:smile:


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

Randy Y said:


> I left a nastygram in the comments on one of their coats that I expect better
> 
> I mean seriously, it's Allen Edmonds, I'm supporting of you wanting to sell clothes -- but do it Allen Edmonds style. You better have my size (or make it)! I did look at the blazers at my local retail outlet, but for those prices -- YOU BETTER HAVE MY SIZE, and take care of alterations for me.
> 
> Maybe they will get better as their collection increases.


I'm willing to reserve judgement until someone actually sees on in person, but I am a little surprised, given that the CEO pops up on the Forum occasionally, that there isn't more construction detail given on the website. One could surmise that "Forum-type" (if there is such a thing) folks are not the target audience, but that may be too presumptive. Guess we'll have to wait and see. Now for my opinion, I would have thought it really cool if AE started a collaboration with other American-made clothing manufacturers (eg. Martin Greenfield, Vineyard Vines, etc...) instead of diversifying into a new market (sportcoats?). That would be neat.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

I realize only one of three is Goat, but is that the kind of thing that can be altered easily? My leather jackets don't have to fit well, since they are outside clothes, but a blazer is something that would need adjustments for most of us. 

This could be a big seller for those who smell like a goat, anyway.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

I have not examined them closely, but to agree with a couple of the above posters, I expect better, and I expect American made. They have adopted the slogan "The Great American Shoe Company", so it would be nice if when they offer men's clothes they could be made in the US or Canada.


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## NewStyle (Apr 25, 2012)

I would stick to shoes when shopping at AE, maybe belts.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Count me as one wishing that Allen Edmonds would just stick to making shoes and boots or if expand they must, limit the expansion to leather wear!


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## poorboy (Feb 23, 2012)

Count me in as one of the crowd that wishes Allen Edmonds would stick to leather products. They need to bring up their quality levels before selling watches and glasses.

They're supposed to be the Great American SHOE Company. If they want to say they're the Great American LEATHER Company, that's fine too. Socks, cedar trees, polish, etc., that's all leather related, but watches, pens, cufflinks, shirts, ties, jackets and hats?


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## AllenEdmondsCEO (Mar 17, 2009)

Hello AAAC Members-

Thanks for the feedback! I also laughed at the "Blazerbank" comment above and said "Ouch" to the "Rolex shoes" comment. 

Here's what we're thinking -- Men put a great premium on shopping convenience, on saving time and on getting high quality for a great price. By putting in our stores selected apparel items that we think our AE Men would like, we're looking to meet those desires/needs. We go directly to superb apparel manufacturers, so we don't have the wholesale-to-retail (aka middle man) margin built into our costing and can pass on the savings to you. 

The people in our company who are developing these products with the manufacturers are apparel experts, with 20-35 years of apparel product development experience under their belts. The products live up to our superior quality standards and the pricing lives up to our "premium value" commitment. Sure, we want to give you more reasons to stop by our store (and help cover the ever-increasing rents in class A real estate), but we also want to help you get stuff done in one visit, too. We think we understand the fashion proclivities of AE Men as well or better than the typical fashionistas of the industry, many of whom work for companies much more focused on women than men. Our new shirts are Made in the USA. Whenever we can find the quality and price we want in any new items with an apparel manufacturer in the U.S., we will. It's tough in apparel -- as it is in footwear -- but we're talking to a lot of people and working hard to find the right manufacturing sources. In the case of the suede blazers, the only U.S. manufacturer we found for it couldn't do our required fit. Theirs was more of a loose coat -- not the tailored fit of a blazer that we wanted. Our head of development had worked with the supplier that we chose for years in his previous life and knew they could deliver. We thought the suede blazer was unique and special enough that we'd compromise on where it was made. We were able, however, to find a USA manufacturer for our cold-weather leather coats and bomber vests. We're working to develop our stores and website into places where Made in USA manufacturers and customers come together.

We do think we have something to bring to leather apparel and leather goods from briefcases to wallets -- with our 90 years in the leather business and our commitment to premium value. Please let me know if you find better quality for our kind of pricing anywhere else. We have incredible support of our company from our customers. We're thinking we can serve them beyond shoes and hope we're right. Although these products are new to our stores and our brand name, they aren't at all new to the people who make them for us and to our design team. I'll appreciate your continued insights and feedback as the next year unfolds (we're working most toward a bigger launch in Fall 2013 right now).

Thanks again.

Best wishes,
Paul


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

^ You, sir, are a class act. Now getting back to the Blazerbank idea... :icon_smile_wink:


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

NewStyle said:


> I would stick to shoes when shopping at AE, maybe belts.


+++++1

I hate when companies try and diversify out of their main product line like this. It didn't help Johnston & Murphy - which also sells (or tries to) lots of non-shoe related stuff. Shoes and belts - maybe wallets and related acessories trees, shoe horns, polishes, etc. are about all I'd consider buying from AE. The more they try to become some kind of lifestyle company, the less interested I am in any of their offerings. This strikes me as the beginning of the end - the investors are unhappy just making shoes and they need to leverage the brand to drive more revenues and profits; after they figure out that people don't think of Allen Edmonds as a clothing company and the stuff isn't selling, the cost cutting follows and the destruction of the product (in terms of declining quality) that built the company is inevitable.


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## NewStyle (Apr 25, 2012)

TSWalker said:


> ^ You, sir, are a class act. Now getting back to the Blazerbank idea... :icon_smile_wink:


+1

I think I'll head into AE today. But I'll probably just buy the shoes I've been thinking about for 4 months.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Fast forward a couple of years... Allen Edmonds sale! Buy one get two free (but only on days ending in "y")!!
I seriously hope that this does not happen. However, expansion within a crowded market in a slow economy is often a recipe for economic disaster. Maximizing one's market share does not always equate to maximizing one's profit...


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## hohne1 (May 12, 2010)

The next time I visit an AE store (nearest one is 200 miles away), I will definitely check out the new sport coats. Yes, AE started as a shoe company. But I like the idea of providing other "supporting" items. As long as they focus on shoes and offer these other items as extra, I'm OK with that.

I have purchased belts, shoe trees, belt racks, wallets, money clips, and socks from AE. All are high quality products - if you haven't tried their socks, you need to.

I don't have a problem with AE branching out a little - I kind of like the option of picking up some socks, shirts, etc. while I getting some shoes. It's kind of like my local menswear/shoe store I shop at where I buy a lot of AE shoes. I just don't want AE to lose their focus on making great shoes.

Chris


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm don't think AAAC regulars are the target market for these blazers.


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## poorboy (Feb 23, 2012)

Dear Mr. Grangaard,

I think I speak for the majority of people here when I say I appreciate that the CEO of a mid size company is willing to interact with customers to hear their thoughts and opinions. I also appreciate the fact that the CEO of an American company is doing his part to help the American economy to pull itself up by its bootstraps by trying to source as much possible domestically, even if it means slimmer profits than buying foreign.

AAAC subscribers could be considered a focus group, and the consensus seems to be that the group does not mind Allen Edmonds branching out, but that the company has to watch its focus into what it branches out into. No doubt, private labeling of products can be successful. Companies like Costco and Wal Mart do it all the time.

But I have to ask myself, who says to themselves when they are purchasing from Allen Edmonds, "I wonder which colour Luminox Navy Seal watch would be the most versatile watch to wear with both dress and casual shoes?"

I can however believe Allen Edmonds customers saying "That leather messenger bag was just what I was looking for." or "I need some good socks to go with those shoes."

I myself have purchased Allen Edmonds belts, shoe care and cedar products, but I won't be looking to Allen Edmonds to purchase any glasses or blue jeans any time soon.

I am quite sure the AAAC subscribers would be more than happy to complete any survey your marketing department wishes to put out to the site. The subscribers may or may not represent your typical customer (my personal opinion is it does as I've only met one other person in real life that wears Allen Edmonds shoes). 

Even starting a conversation, "If I ran Allen Edmonds, what could I branch out into to expand our product line and improve profitability?" might provide some insight. You might have to do some data mining to find some useful information, but that's no different than real mining for precious metals.

I've noticed a recent push in Canada to get more Allen Edmonds shoes displayed in finer clothing stores, and think it's a great idea.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Epaminondas said:


> I hate when companies try and diversify out of their main product line like this. It didn't help Johnston & Murphy - which also sells (or tries to) lots of non-shoe related stuff. Shoes and belts - maybe wallets and related acessories trees, shoe horns, polishes, etc. are about all I'd consider buying from AE. The more they try to become some kind of lifestyle company, the less interested I am in any of their offerings. This strikes me as the beginning of the end - the investors are unhappy just making shoes and they need to leverage the brand to drive more revenues and profits; after they figure out that people don't think of Allen Edmonds as a clothing company and the stuff isn't selling, the cost cutting follows and the destruction of the product (in terms of declining quality) that built the company is inevitable.


While I understand the sentiment behind this post - it is just filled with assumptions which the author cant possible have any insight into and a general chicken little - the sky is falling vibe.

Johnson and Murphy has never been on the same level for quality and craftsmanship as Allen Edmonds, so using them as an example proves nothing.

As for your comments about an expanded line of offerings making you no longer consider any of their offerings, that is equally silly. If you are in the market for high quality shoes in a style that A&E offers - what difference does it make that they also sell blazers and socks? Unless you can show a direct correlation that says Expanded Offerings = Lower Standards for their Shoes, then your concern is off base.

Lots of people out here were spreading the same false alarms a few years back when AE began to introduce their more affordable, non recraftable lines...saying that was the beginning of the end of the "mainline" AE products.

Instead, they have not only held the line with their core products - but have expanded UP with more custom offerings and higher quality lines like the Independence Collection.

Much ado about nothing.


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## Bartleby. the Scrivener (Oct 19, 2012)

I don't think I like the idea of Allen Edmonds sport coats. I know several of the private equity guys that bought the company a few years back and all I can think of is "brand extension" or some other business school term that ultimately dilutes the quality and focus of the company in the relentless push for greater profits (to pay down debt). Sounds a bit like they're reading from the Johnson & Murphy strategy playbook to me and not in a good way.

As an aside, I love my Allen Edmonds shoes. I received my first pair 15 years ago when my dad purchased a pair of Park Avenues for me at Jacobson's (the Florida retailer that closed about 10 years ago) as he was outfitting me for college. We bought two HSM suits and a Brooks Brothers blazer that weekend as well. I still wear them to work each week as coat and ties are still expected in certain areas of the government. Since then, I've added another Park Avenue, a Walden, and Walton.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

poorboy. Where in Canada does one see Edmonds shoes, all of mine have come across the border in my car or in my luggage.

It's not unusual to see AEs in Vancouver I have 5 pairs and a close friend of mine has 10+ pairs.


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## poorboy (Feb 23, 2012)

David J. Cooper said:


> poorboy. Where in Canada does one see Edmonds shoes, all of mine have come across the border in my car or in my luggage.
> 
> It's not unusual to see AEs in Vancouver I have 5 pairs and a close friend of mine has 10+ pairs.


Harry Rosen is starting to display them more prominently.

Living so close to the border, your best bet is still to get them in the U.S. I bring them across as well when I go to visit. They can be as much as $100 more up here.


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

David J. Cooper said:


> poorboy. Where in Canada does one see Edmonds shoes, all of mine have come across the border in my car or in my luggage.
> 
> It's not unusual to see AEs in Vancouver I have 5 pairs and a close friend of mine has 10+ pairs.


Nova Scotia's only decent men's store now carries Allen Edmond's shoes, and has done a fair bit of promoting of them in the provincial paper. Before you completley panic upon realizing you have chosen to settle on the wrong coast I should also mention that I have purchased Edmond's shoes at Harry Rosen.

I am not going to presume I have new insights for Allen Edmond's that their brain trust has not already discussed, but I will say.... _keep those 14 narrows comin'!_ Finding a good off the shelf shoe that fits men like me would be impossible without Allan Edmonds, and I love their belts as well.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

I've always found the shoes at Harry Rosen to be too fashion forward for me. i never noticed wether they had AEs.

I have bought shoes in NYC and San Francisco as well as on the internet. I have a mailbox just over the border.


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## upthewazzu (Nov 3, 2011)

David,

They are sold at Nordstroms, which there are many of near you in Seattle (the closest being Lynnwood).


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## MNeuenswander (Feb 26, 2010)

I've noticed the new product lines at AE's as well and not yet interested. I really like the shoes, belts, and shoe care products, but feel like the clothing line is a bit more of an older style than what I am used to wearing (I'm 28).


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

Paul,

You've been more than gracious to the Forum (I think that's something for which most/all of the Forum could agree upon) with your candor and input, and from the thread you've obviously garnered there's more than one opinion out there. I'd of course like to add mine:

Go for it!

On a somewhat seasonal note (that hopefully won't get us all bounced to the exchange) "You DID build that!" meaning the resurgence of AE as a high-end American-manufactured shoe company (full disclosure, I did pick up a pair of Sevens at the Port outlet last year which absolutely rock. Another story for another time). Taking calculated chances is what makes American business what it is, great, and I hope the diversification works for you. Your company, your money, your risk, your (potential) reward. I'm rooting for you. True, it's not quite my style, but I'm just one guy. Who knows, by next year there might be a run on suede sportcoats for the holiday season?!

Complete non-sequitur, but I'm taking some folks to dinner at a fine italian place in Sheboygan Thursday evening, and if you're around and would like to join us, just message me at the Forum! I'm dropping off a pair of shoes for repair in Port on Saturday too (going to be in Kohler for a meeting).

Keep up the great work. Thanks!


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## AllenEdmondsCEO (Mar 17, 2009)

Hello Again -

This is good discussion. I hope others join in. I do indeed consider our supporters and detractors on AAAC as a great focus group for feedback. I prefer this kind of open dialogue to surveys, though, because I get your unvarnished and most direct opinions this way. In a survey, one usually answers all the questions but doesn't feel the same intensity about his answers. In free form, the priorities and depth of thinking/passion come through. I suppose it's like the reason for the change from mostly multiple choice tests in high school to more free-form tests in college.

A couple of responses to the points made recently, but then I'll get out of the way of more feedback. First, there are a number of apparel companies that started narrowly and are now broad. Ralph Lauren started off selling only ties, as I'm sure is very common knowledge among you. As for degradation of what we're good at -- we have no intention of following any company whose product expansion was coincident with a reduction in quality in both the core product line and the new products, or by a change in production location or philosophy. If you've watched AE over the last four years closely, you know that we both re-committed big-time to our core product line and re-doubled our intensity on our quality of workmanship, and simultaneously expanded the shoe and belt product line significantly. Whatever we do, it'll be first rate quality and premium value pricing.

Second, we're experimenting with expansion of the line because we think we have a lot to bring to our customers. Believe me, we're pushing our owners with this strategy -- not the other way around. Why? Well, it's not really for profits (I firmly believe that profitability is the derivative benefit of doing great product that inspires customers; when profits become the main goal, bad stuff happens, a lot of bad stuff over time.). No, we're doing it for a few other reasons -- 1) As normal AE-type guys ourselves, we know men like to one-stop shop whenever possible to save time and headaches, and we really understand things they'd like to have -- things that would look good on them without making them look like they're trying too hard to look good. We also understand things that we/they find cool/interesting/fun - like the baseball stadium cufflinks, or the can-openers from MLB used bats, or the same watch as Seal Team Six wore, or a Made in USA leather briefcase or wallet etc. Our position in the market and our access to trade shows puts us in a great position to "discover" things our customers would like. 2) We have 41 stores now, with another 7 coming next year and a top 200 website in terms of traffic and sales. We can offer market access to our partner USA manufacturers that they can't build for themselves and, in the process, help them grow employment in their locations the way our growth has built employment in Port Washington, Wisconsin. 3) We're competitive and action-oriented people on our leadership team and we think building a bigger company with more products that thrill more people would be really energizing and a great legacy to leave. Also, we've hired players to our team for whom this is not the first rodeo in any of aspect of the product expansion. The shoe team is still the same, so the shoe development and production won't change. Nobody is leaving -- to the contrary, they're stepping it up enthusiastically.

Next comments, please.

Paul


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## MWhisler (Oct 4, 2008)

I don't mind the expanding variety of products, but I was a bit disappointed when I saw the new Blazers were Imported. I love many of the other products they offer, shoe creams and polishes etc, belts, money clips, shoe trees, and especially the socks, they're quite nice.


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## Bartleby. the Scrivener (Oct 19, 2012)

I agree with many of the others on the forum and appreciate your gracious input and remarkable candor, Paul. I'm rooting for your success even though I consider myself a skeptic of brand extension generally. This initiative reminds me of a NY Times article that I read recently regarding the inherent tension between quality and profitability in menswear (https://menoftheclothfilm.com/blog/), which concludes that "The only way to make money in the perfectionist craftsperson industry, it seems, is to stop being a perfectionist craftsperson." Given Allen Edmonds' 90-year history of successfully navigating the potential pitfalls of brand dilution not to mention manufacturing quality footwear in the U.S., I only question why start down this path now and to what end? I'll conclude with the quote that resonated the most with me: "I'd like to amplify the few voices who questioned why the goal always has to be exponential growth, endless licensing, branding, etc. What's wrong with making an honest living on a small scale?" For Allen Edmonds, why not simply continue doing what you're doing and do it well?


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

hohne1 said:


> ..... Yes, AE started as a shoe company.....


So did Nordstrom, give Paul a shot..


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## Randy Y (Apr 19, 2012)

@Paul

The only additional thing I've seen you mention that I don't think really trends with the crowd here (perhaps different with the 'average' AE buyer, I don't know) is when you mention that men like to 'one stop shop'. I don't know that much about your average customer, but I'd wager the 'average' AAAC guy is something like this:

1. Has a preferred provider of dress shirts - also may try out other options occasionally as they hear about them. They may also buy their suits through this provider, but there is a high likelihood they do not.
2. Has a (different) preferred place for ties.
3. Has a (different) preferred place for shoes.
4. etc et al

Many of the places I personally buy specifics types of items from sell other items - I rarely purchase them. I will try them out on occasion - and maybe that is your in. Many of us will try your other lines if it's the right quality at the right price. 

For Example:

You have dress shirts for ~$125 on your website. There are many places where, for $100, we can get great quality shirts with custom options. At minimum we get choices as to sleeve length and fit. luxire.com, charles tyrwhitt, and even Brooks Brothers custom shirts are competitive (closer to $125-150 I'd estimate on BB). 

I can't make myself try our your shirts, because on top of the price, and the likelihood that a 'small' is probably not going to be a good fit for me (small stature) -- I'll also, at minimum, have to pay for sleeve alterations. Maybe a few others alterations as well, and that $125 shirt is now $150 or more.

I love AE shoes, and I understand the need to branch out. I support that. But do what you've done with shoes. Offer us an outstanding value, or outstanding worksmanship, or options not available elsewhere - or some combination thereof. Look at more competition than just the rack stores - we certainly are.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Randy Y said:


> * I don't know that much about your average customer*


Exactly.


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

I think the average guy hates shopping, only goes when his wife makes him, and would get everything at one place if he could. The average guy does not read AAAC.


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## Randy Y (Apr 19, 2012)

dks202 said:


> I think the average guy hates shopping, only goes when his wife makes him, and would get everything at one place if he could. The average guy does not read AAAC.


Does the 'average' guy shop at AE? I'm not saying AE customers do or don't like to shop - I'm simply saying that I wouldn't necessarily believe they are the same as the 'average' male consumer.


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

A number of years ago, my firm decided to branch out from printing just on offset presses, to include a digital division. Instead of being limited to a single production method, we now do 40% of our business using digital presses.

I hope AE does well, although my firm and yours are different, sometimes it pays to branch out. Of course, if it proves unprofitable, I hope you have the common sense to return to what you're good at.

Tom


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## Sharpe (Apr 20, 2010)

I do find the push back on the forum to be a bit odd. Countless companies don't make the same items they started out making especially if they been around 90 years? IBM started out making scales and even cheese/meat slicers. As Paul mentioned Ralph Lauren started out making Polo shirts and someone else Nordstrom was a shoe store. 

Like some of us I was lucky enough to meet Mark McNeil (AE Director of Product Development) and after talking with him I would bet his knowledge on clothing against probably anyone on the forum. That said I trust Paul and his team and would love thinking 30 years from now about how at one point AE only made shoes but is the Great American Men's Store now.


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## Randy Y (Apr 19, 2012)

Sharpe said:


> I do find the push back on the forum to be a bit odd. Countless companies don't make the same items they started out making especially if they been around 90 years? IBM started out making scales and even cheese/meat slicers. As Paul mentioned Ralph Lauren started out making Polo shirts and someone else Nordstrom was a shoe store.
> 
> Like some of us I was lucky enough to meet Mark McNeil (AE Director of Product Development) and after talking with him I would bet his knowledge on clothing against probably anyone on the forum. That said I trust Paul and his team and would love thinking 30 years from now about how at one point AE only made shoes but is the Great American Men's Store now.


I like this. Insightful post.

I don't think my issue is them branching out -- just the manner in which it's done. Which is probably, actually, just because nothing they are making fits me ;( I'm used to being able to get anything at AE that I want in my size.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Like so many makers or merchants of tailored clothing, AE offers jackets only in regular and longs. I am thankful AE makes shoes for short feet and regret they have no jackets for short torsos. If someone here knows the economics of the dearth of short sized tailored clothing I would appreciate a short explanation.


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## Sharpe (Apr 20, 2010)

I swung into the shop downtown and AE does have some Shorts and Extra Long. I think their quantity and sizing is limited so it might just be 38, 40, 42 and maybe 44.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

clothingconnoisseur said:


> Next on my list, right after Rolex shoes ...


Next on my list is a Steinway & Sons wristwatch.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Sharpe said:


> As Paul mentioned Ralph Lauren started out making Polo shirts


This is a misquote.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

drlivingston said:


> Ralph Lauren (originally Ralph Lifschitz) did not get his start making Polo shirts. Way back in high school Ralph sold ties to his classmates. After a brief stint in the military, he worked as a salesman for Brooks Brothers. Later, in 1967 (with the financial backing of Norman Hilton), he opened a tie store. He received permission to use the trademark "Polo" from Brooks Brothers.


Which is EXACTLY what Paul said in his reply.



AllenEdmondsCEO said:


> Ralph Lauren started off selling only ties, as I'm sure is very common knowledge among you.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Sharpe said:


> I swung into the shop downtown and AE does have some Shorts and Extra Long. I think their quantity and sizing is limited so it might just be 38, 40, 42 and maybe 44.


Nice to know. Perhaps they will add them to the website.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

MikeDT said:


> Next on my list is a Steinway & Sons wristwatch.


Mike,

Do you prefer those from Steinway's Hamburg or N.Y.C workrooms?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

drlivingston said:


> Ralph Lauren (originally Ralph )


Dr. L

Thank you,

Regards,

Alan


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## NewStyle (Apr 25, 2012)

arkirshner said:


> This is gratuitous and adds nothing to the discussion. One does not see "Muhammed Ali (originally Cassius Clay)", "St. Paul (originally Saul of Tarsus)", "Cary Grant (originally Archibald Leach)", "Gerald Ford (originally Leslie King Jr.)", "Bill Clinton (originally William Blythe III)", etc.


I wish it were possible to 'like' posts. Regardless, good call arkirschner.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Shorts are going because we are getting taller and the market of men who care about 1" in coat length is less as well. I'm going to sneak into JAB on Hilton Head next week and pray their new "portly" 42S is a little big on me. Just trying one on, mind you.

"Average adult Americans are about one inch taller, but nearly a whopping 25 pounds heavier than they were in 1960, according to a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The bad news, says CDC is that average BMI (body mass index, a weight-for-height formula used to measure obesity) has increased among adults from approximately 25 in 1960 to 28 in 2002.
The report, Mean Body Weight, Height, and Body Mass Index (BMI) 1960-2002: United States, shows that the average height of a man aged 20-74 years increased from just over 5'8" in 1960 to 5'9½" in 2002, while the average height of a woman the same age increased from slightly over 5'3" 1960 to 5'4" in 2002."


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

arkirshner said:


> This is gratuitous and adds nothing to the discussion.


Duly noted... I meant no harm. Offending post removed to avoid undue ruffling of dander.


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## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

I would wear Allen Edmonds clothing. Why not, if the price and quality were comparable to the shoes ? It would also be a positive factor if the clothing became renowned for being mainly American-made, like the shoes.

Sadly, since I live in the UK I am unlikely to have the chance...without some horrendous shipping and customs duties getting in the way :frown:, but good luck AE


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

drlivingston said:


> Duly noted... I meant no harm. Offending post removed to avoid undue ruffling of dander.


I'm sure you didn't. Thank you.

Regards,

Alan


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

drlivingston said:


> Duly noted... I meant no harm. Offending post removed to avoid undue ruffling of dander.


As a semi-pertinent aside: one of my favourite Muhammad Ali moments was his brutal dispatch of Floyd Patterson (who insisted on calling him Cassius Clay) whilst taunting 'what's my name motherf......?' :icon_smile_wink:


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## poorboy (Feb 23, 2012)

Here are my random thoughts:

I find Allen Edmonds to be an interesting company. The company could be considered in the decline stage of the business maturity model. The way leather soled shoes have been manufactured has not changed for 100 years. There is virtually no differentiation in the way other premium volume shoe manufacturers make their shoes. The only difference seems to be in small design changes and fit. Many of the company's competitors have long since closed their doors. Shoes for the most part, are considered disposable items and are no longer rebuilt.

Some business student somewhere has probably done a SWOT and Porter's analysis of the company, but as Allen Edmonds is not a publicly traded company, it's probably not quite complete. In any event, it would probably say stuff like the company offers a value for money product in the premium range, but its price removes it from the average person's shoe choice. That the Allen Edmonds name is not really known by most people, but that there still is a lot of Goodwill associated to the name and it faces the relentless threat from cheaper shoe manufacturers.

Mr. Grangaard has been instrumental in turning around the company by reconnecting with its core customers. I'm not 100% sure what that means, but from what I've pieced together, it meant upping quality and bringing back classic styles, which I suspect form the backbone of sales.

Who are these core customers? According to Colin Hall of Allen Edmonds, they are men between the ages of 35 and 55 years old and are a business professional. Further details of their customers were not specified.

I think I heard the company hired 300 employees several years ago, so I'm guessing the company is on the upswing again, which also explains why it wants to branch out into other offerings. Some of the items I've seen leave me scratching my head, while others, like an expanded belt and casual shoe line, a value AE and premium Independence line of shoes are easy to comprehend. 

Mr. Grangaard stands by his management team on some of these choices and has mentioned several times the depth of experience they have, but I'd like to point out that many companies have brought on experienced managers and still failed and that in Allen Edmonds case, it took an outsider (Mr. Grangaard, no less) to turn the company around.

As an outsider, I'm wondering what kind of effort the company is trying to make to put its product in customers 10 years younger, the 25 to 35 year old crowd? WWII played an important role in the establishing of Allen Edmonds. The company supplied shoes to the army and navy. After the war, many former serviceman continued to wear Allen Edmonds shoes and became life long customers. Those were young men. Allen Edmonds continues to support the Armed Forces through special pricing at military PX's (which is greatly appreciated), but they are not their core customers.

There's also the common story of a Father either handing down a pair of Allen Edmonds shoes or taking his now grown son to buy his first pair of Allen Edmonds shoes. Maybe Allen Edmonds should try some direct marketing by hitting the law and business schools and offering student sale pricing to this crowd to get them in their first pair of Allen Edmonds shoes?

I'm a believer in R & D (Ripoff & Duplicate). There's only a finite number of key design elements for a shoe. A wider selection of chisel toed shoes might also draw the younger crowd or a different crowd who find the rounded toe too "blobby".

It's also my opinion that most people do not know why a premium shoe costs so much. It's never really explained that most shoes are cheap corrected grain leather with paper bedding and synthetic lining. A little education could go a long way. The youtube videos were an excellent idea, and this could be a median to bring forth this education.


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## NewStyle (Apr 25, 2012)

Poorboy, that's a great commentary. As a budding AE fan (three pairs and counting), I'm always interested in learn more about the company.

Incidentally, I'm mid-20s and in professional school. I learned about it from another mid-20s in grad school. You may be on to something, but casual still dominates.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Perhaps the AE sport coats are worth a look, but are they, as the shoes are famous for being, "American made"? To be honest, as one who has purchased close to 50 pairs (an estimate for sure, but a pretty good one!) of AE's over the years, The shoes being made in the USA has always been a significant factor in the purchasing decisions for me and I suspect for others!


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## hohne1 (May 12, 2010)

NewStyle said:


> Poorboy, that's a great commentary. As a budding AE fan (three pairs and counting), I'm always interested in learn more about the company.


I bought this book from AE - it is a great history of the company and is a great read. Just a suggestion if anybody is interested in some company background.

Chris


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

Week before the storm I did walk in the AE store in Westport with the aim to try Longbranch boots. Helped by a nice guy I believe named Brian, the assistant manager. Anyway they did not have my exact size, but loved the boots, decided to wait for the first sale. While I was there I handled every shoe I think, almost certainly all cordovans. There were jackets on the wall but it did not even occur to me to seriously look at the jackets. They were saltine crackers on the shelf of a candy store. Store was not designed as a clothing store and it is hard to change one's mindset. I disagree with the CEO that men want one stop shopping when it comes to physical stores. Of course if he gives me a sizeable coupon for my boots, I promise to go try couple of jackets 

Having said that I should mention that I seriously considered buying Harris tweed vests online last year. Online store may be a different kind of beast. One suggestion there from me is give the measurements of your wares a la eBay or thrift exchange style at least on request. If I were sure of the size I would have bought the vest. I just did not want to bother sending it back -free or not-.

So here is your free loyal consumer feedback.


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## poorboy (Feb 23, 2012)

catside said:


> Of course if he gives me a sizeable coupon for my boots, I promise to go try couple of jackets
> 
> So here is your free loyal consumer feedback.


I wouldn't mind a pair of merlot Strands, but $460 is a bit steep for me. I try and buy during sales for around $219.

I think Allen Edmonds is fairly receptive of customer feedback. I mentioned to the management about a year ago in this forum that a top grain penny loafer similar to the Walden would be nice, and a messenger bag closer to the $500 range would be worthwhile additions (Other people probably did as well). About a year later, the Patriot shoe and Atlas flap briefcase popped up.


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## ckgs (Apr 13, 2013)

Their web site now says the sports coats and pants are "made in the usa". They really do seem to have delivered on their goal of using US based manufacturers. 

Anyone know who is making them? Better yet, anyone bought one and have some comments on quality?


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

I tried a sportcoat on in my size (44R) at the SF Sutter Street AE shop. It fit me like it was made for me. It is cut on the slim side, but I would not insult the garment by calling it a "slim" cut in the sense that Paul Smith suits & sportcoats are "slim" cuts and are just about unwearable unless you are anorexic, 5'10" and no larger than a 38R. I have a lot of clothes, and I mean a LOT, and I know what fits and what does not. This AE sportcoat fit me flawlessly. Regardless of how much money I have spent on clothes in the last year, I should have bought it. Just a word to this wise.


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## jdasta (Apr 1, 2006)

I didn't know about AE's venture into the tweed sport coat industry until this weekend when I received a very flashy, well done mailer. I was surprised to learn that these tweed sport coats are made in China; the advertising, consisting of a tailor cutting fabric with large shears, wasn't Asian and lent the appearance that they were made right in good old Wisconsin.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

jdasta said:


> I didn't know about AE's venture into the tweed sport coat industry until this weekend when I received a very flashy, well done mailer. I was surprised to learn that these tweed sport coats are made in China; the advertising, consisting of a tailor cutting fabric with large shears, wasn't Asian and lent the appearance that they were made right in good old Wisconsin.


Is this your first exposure to the idea that advertising isnt to be taken literally? The last time you purchased a pair of NIKE sneakers - did the ad in the store show Lebron James dunking - or a worker in a sweatshop in China slaving over a sewing machine?


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

peterc said:


> I tried a sportcoat on in my size (44R) at the SF Sutter Street AE shop. It fit me like it was made for me. It is cut on the slim side, but I would not insult the garment by calling it a "slim" cut in the sense that Paul Smith suits & sportcoats are "slim" cuts and are just about unwearable unless you are anorexic, 5'10" and no larger than a 38R. I have a lot of clothes, and I mean a LOT, and I know what fits and what does not. This AE sportcoat fit me flawlessly. Regardless of how much money I have spent on clothes in the last year, I should have bought it. Just a word to this wise.


You're not helping.


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## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

medhat said:


> You're not helping.


Believe me, I know!

The one I tried one was a wool/silk/linen blend and the fabric and construction were excellent. Made in China, but that does not change my opinion of it.


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## ckgs (Apr 13, 2013)

jdasta said:


> I didn't know about AE's venture into the tweed sport coat industry until this weekend when I received a very flashy, well done mailer. I was surprised to learn that these tweed sport coats are made in China; the advertising, consisting of a tailor cutting fabric with large shears, wasn't Asian and lent the appearance that they were made right in good old Wisconsin.


AE website is now saying that the sport coats are made in USA.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

catside said:


> There were jackets on the wall but it did not even occur to me to seriously look at the jackets. They were saltine crackers on the shelf of a candy store. Store was not designed as a clothing store and it is hard to change one's mindset. I disagree with the CEO that men want one stop shopping when it comes to physical stores.


Rather my sense of the matter...unless A-E wants to strive to become the new Nordstrom. First reaction to A-E's product line expansion (I had been only vaguely aware of it until quite recently) was the old saw, "Cobbler, stick to your last!" But, then, I'm a pretty conservative old guy.

As for the matter of "one-stop shopping," aren't most A-E stores either in shopping malls or otherwise in close proximity to other emporia that sell menswear?


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

JLibourel said:


> Rather my sense of the matter...unless A-E wants to strive to become the new Nordstrom. First reaction to A-E's product line expansion (I had been only vaguely aware of it until quite recently) was the old saw, "Cobbler, stick to your last!" But, then, I'm a pretty conservative old guy.
> 
> As for the matter of "one-stop shopping," aren't most A-E stores either in shopping malls or otherwise in close proximity to other emporia that sell menswear?


I'm on the fence with this one. Would I be interested in a "go to" place where I could find a variety of clothing/shoe/accessory items of comparable quality that I might buy? I'd at least take a look. Think of it as a grade higher than what J Crew is doing (mostly online) with a "curated" collection of name-brand (not theirs) items (watches, shoes, jackets) but all sold by J Crew. Could AE do this in a bricks and mortar presence?... maybe.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

jdasta said:


> I didn't know about AE's venture into the tweed sport coat industry until this weekend when I received a very flashy, well done mailer. I was surprised to learn that these tweed sport coats are made in China; the advertising, consisting of a tailor cutting fabric with large shears, wasn't Asian and lent the appearance that they were made right in good old Wisconsin.


With "made in usa" all over it, including the freakin promo code.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

I think the made in china stuff was from their first go around in 2012 it seems to me the newer stuff may be made in America











L-feld said:


> With "made in usa" all over it, including the freakin promo code.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## ckgs (Apr 13, 2013)

Well, I guess they are not very popular since no one seems to own one. They look sort of nice, but a navy or grey would be nice too.


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## AaroninOC (Sep 1, 2013)

I am a great aficionado of AE dress shoes and with four pair in regular rotation on top of my Brooks Brothers branded pair, I can be found in them at the office daily. I received the fall season catalog this afternoon in the mail to mixed emotions. From the new font and logo to the full page spreads you can see that the company is most certainly going in a new direction and I always try to keep an open and objective mind to change. That said, I was concerned as I don't want to see AE bastardize the reputable shoe business that they (and I) enjoy.

The new clothing line does not feel age appropriate for me personally, especially the vest and sport coats. As a thirty five year old banker in Southern Cal I feel like the textures and patterns would either give me an overly matured (read: senescent) appearance, or an even worse fate, a hipster facade. Even with jeans I doubt I could shake the worry. I am very particular about dressing to suit my lifestyle. I feel that a twenty year old punker in an ascot and using a cigarette holder looks equally as sad as a seventy year old man wearing Ed Hardy flames, white Ray Bans and a Swatch watch while trying to hit on my wife. I live close to Los Angeles, both have happened in recent weeks.

On the other hand, I absolutely loved the new Strand, Park Avenue and Neumok collections of accessories. I adored the matched brogueing on the Strand offerings of briefcase and bag and I think I am definitely in the market as I think that the briefcase would look particularly sharp with my walnut McAllisters. Expanding the accessory line to match AE's flagship shoe models is a brilliant idea and I am all for it. The Neumok collection is a bit heavy on manbags/murses for my taste, but I applaud the idea nonetheless. I hope they expand on this concept!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I, too, received the mailer _with a 15% discount coupon inside_! The sportscoats aren't really to my taste being well over 60 and of academic leanings but the tan vest, now . . . I can see that riding quite nicely under a tweed jacket above a pair of moleskin trousers and Russell moccasins. But then, I have a tendency to identify with Finch on Person of Interest, anyway.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

...but then AE is offering a sueded sport coat that is mildly tempting...if only they offered it in specific sizes (44R, 46R,...), rather than in size ranges (small, medium, large, etc.)?


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> I, too, received the mailer _with a 15% discount coupon inside_! The sportscoats aren't really to my taste being well over 60 and of academic leanings but the tan vest, now . . . I can see that riding quite nicely under a tweed jacket above a pair of moleskin trousers and Russell moccasins. But then, I have a tendency to identify with Finch on Person of Interest, anyway.


I have not yet received a mailer with 15% coupon, but when I do I plan on buying the Rust Vest with notch lapel

As others have said the only concern is that they are sized S,M,L Etc. Although they do have a numbered size next to the S,M,L I will order what I think fits and hope for the best.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

In the past I, too, have looked askance at clothing that was 'approximately' sized but this morning it occurred to me that since anything I buy OTR will almost certainly have to go to the alterations tailor it really doesn't make that much difference. The tailor will charge me the same for taking in or letting out 1/4" as he does for 1 1/2" so why sweat the small stuff? And vests are always adjustable . . .


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Is the coupon valid for shoes?


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

There have been more than a few companies that wrecked themselves expanding into new business areas. I'd rather see them stick to shoes.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

tocqueville said:


> Is the coupon valid for shoes?


It just says, "15% off until 9/22/13". There's one for me and one for a friend, though I don't know who to give it too.


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## AaroninOC (Sep 1, 2013)

I found the coupons as well and that assures a purchase from me. Most likely the Strand Collection bag.


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## AaroninOC (Sep 1, 2013)

tocqueville said:


> Is the coupon valid for shoes?


It clearly reads on the back of the coupon "Not valid for shoes or belts". It is valid only for bags, accessories and apparel.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Ah! I hadn't taken it out to read the back, yet. Well, I'll just have to think about this.


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## Preacher (Jul 5, 2008)

Those strand bags look great.


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## Shoe City Thinker (Oct 8, 2012)

Any word on the construction of the chest piece? Half-canvas would make the price point more justifiable. Otherwise overpriced and not a good value given the trendy styling details. A chest pocket lining that pops out to be a pocket square? Srsly??


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Shoe City Thinker said:


> Any word on the construction of the chest piece? Half-canvas would make the price point more justifiable. Otherwise overpriced and not a good value given the trendy styling details. A chest pocket lining that pops out to be a pocket square? Srsly??


I had to go to the website to look at this myself. I can't say I'm surprised though. It's not secret that Allen Edmonds is trying to reach a younger crowd, and as everyone else has said as long as they keep up with the core of their business I am fine with it.

I think they did that webgem of shell at a great price so that those of us who do not love the trendy stuff that they are doing can be appeased.


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## au1776 (Sep 4, 2013)

Dmontez said:


> I had to go to the website to look at this myself. I can't say I'm surprised though. It's not secret that Allen Edmonds is trying to reach a younger crowd, and as everyone else has said as long as they keep up with the core of their business I am fine with it.
> 
> I think they did that webgem of shell at a great price so that those of us who do not love the trendy stuff that they are doing can be appeased.


I don't think it is necessarily either-or. People tend to forget that there is and has been a growing swath of the young male market that is finding appeal in traditional things, especially in the southeast, Texas, and the mountain west. For example, when I go into Orvis or Barbour or the like, I see as many college-aged men as older men. There are a ton of upstart companies targeting the modern offshoots of the likes of LL Bean, Filson, and Orvis. I see some of what Allen Edmonds is doing as the natural maturation of that enthusiasm. I know the targets likely aren't identical, but I think they're analogous in that the focus is on traditional or slightly modernized mens wear, accessories, shoes and gifts in a classically American manner.

To be honest, I think AE probably has missed out on a good bit of that business by virtue of their sterile reputation as a shoemaker first and only. Venturing into an AE, in some locations, feels like going to an SAS with my dad 20 years ago. Unless I'm out for a pair of shoes, there is nothing there for me. Meanwhile, I'll wander into upscale menswear stores (sometimes masquerading as fly shops or outfitters) with nothing particular in mind. I know off the street business hasn't been AE's focus, but there is a difference between setting up shop in a mall and positioning yourself to get some of the "lifestyle" business other male-focused companies are thriving from.


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