# US Army - Guards and Ceremonial units



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I was just reading about the 3rd US Army Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard), who hosted the Irish Army officer cadet detachment that stood beside JFK's grave several hours before and during the funeral.


Anyway, again, I got another one of those surprises that I get occasionally when I delve into the structure of political, military and religious bodies and it is this:

In the 4th Battalion of the 3rd US Army Infantry Regiment is the 289th MP Company and in the 289th MP Company is a Special Reaction Team...you know, the black clad, gasmasks, ladders & windows lads.

Obviously being in DC & being a presidential guard I understand why the Regt has an SRT, it just surprised me is all!


Q: Are there any other US military units that can refer to themselves as Guards/ceremonial units? And I don't mean bands.


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

I have never heard of a Guards unit in the U.S. military. 

I'm not sure what counts as a "ceremonial" unit. Certainly there are troops assigned ceremonial duties, such as guarding the tomb of the unknown soldier. But I don't recall if that duty is assigned to a particular unit. Apart from "the Marines," I think the closest you would tend to find would be an assortment of now-derelict state militia units.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Titus_A said:


> I have never heard of a Guards unit in the U.S. military.


Not sure how to interpret that. Do you mean you've never heard of the Old Guard (3rd Inf. Regt.) or do you mean you don't know of any others?



Titus_A said:


> But I don't recall if that duty is assigned to a particular unit.


Yes it is, it is one of the duties of the Old Guard (3rd Inf. Regt.)


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Earl, I'm no expert on this, but lots of US military units have nicknames which are not necessarily special designations. For instance, the First Marine Division is known as "The Old Breed." But they're not a "breed unit"! I don't know that The Old Guard is a "guard" regiment, as such.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

In my opinion, the Marines are the closest thing in the U.S. military tradition to the Household Division of the British Army. The Marines seem to do pomp, circumstance and all that so much better than the other military services. From a sartorial standpoint, they look good doing it too. The Army's uniforms are hideous; the tunic of the Marines is classic. The peaked cap, however, is hideous.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Earl is spot on with his assumption(s). The Army's Old Guard is at once both a ceremonial unit and a unit with operational responsibilities. They are the unit that provides 24/7 security for the Tomb of The Unknown(s) Soldiers. As I understand it, each of our military services host ceremonial units in the D. C. area that support activities at Arlington Natl. Cemetery and other veterans cemeteries across the US. The USAF's 89th Military Airlift Wing provides ceremonial and operational support for The Presidency and selected components of our national leadership structure. Again, within the USAF, major commands and numbered air forces had select/ceremonial units that routinely provided security for headquarter's elements and additionally performed ceremonial responsibilities such as honor guards for visiting dignitaries and internment escorts and honor guards for deceased airmen, etc. Ceremonial/demonstration units are not relieved of their operational responsibilities and each must undertake training and evaluation activities as necessary to demonstrate such operational/combat capabilities.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

First Troop, Philadelphia City Cavalry may be considered such.

It is a National Guard/Reserve unit but like many, they have done serious overseas deployments. 

I wasn't a member but was assighned to their HHC Company. Back then we still used M-48s and APCs!!


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Not sure how to interpret that. Do you mean you've never heard of the Old Guard (3rd Inf. Regt.) or do you mean you don't know of any others?


 I have heard of American units using nicknames like that. I have never heard of any American unit being officially designated as a "guards" unit, a la "Coldstream Guards" or "_Garde Impériale_." There's a simple reason for that: we don't have a monarch, or a seat-of-government-doubling-as-military-installation to, well, "guard." There is not a strong tradition of the president leading troops in battle, and a firm tradition against him having personal troops in the nature of Praetorians or Household Cavalry.



Earl of Ormonde said:


> Yes it is, it is one of the duties of the Old Guard (3rd Inf. Regt.)


Well there we go. Now I will recall. I suppose they could lay claim to the moniker more strongly than most. In fact, a glance at the Regiment's wikipedia entry suggests that they might well qualify as a "guards" regiment pursuant to the standard criteria, if they really exist.

Edit: WouldaShoulda points to the sort of thing to which I adverted in my original post.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

That's true.

The US has no crown jewels.

Our President is guarded by the secret service, a civilian, not military unit.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

hockeyinsider said:


> In my opinion, the Marines are the closest thing in the U.S. military tradition to the Household Division of the British Army. The Marines seem to do pomp, circumstance and all that so much better than the other military services. From a sartorial standpoint, they look good doing it too. The Army's uniforms are hideous; the tunic of the Marines is classic. The peaked cap, however, is hideous.


Of course, they are the navy. It's all about the food and gilded suiting


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Earl is spot on with his assumption(s).


Thanks Eagle, it wasn't an assumption though, I've read about the Old Guard and so know about their extensive list of guarding, ceremonial and security duties.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Our President is guarded by the secret service, a civilian, not military unit.


In this context of course I'm talking about providing *ceremonial *guards and escorts for the president.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Bjorn said:


> Of course, they are the navy. It's all about the food and gilded suiting


I doubt that your response would please any Marines or matelots! Marines aren't in the Navy although they're sort of attached to the Navy. They aren't of the Army either!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Chouan said:


> I doubt that your response would please any Marines or matelots! Marines aren't in the Navy although they're sort of attached to the Navy. They aren't of the Army either!


I started to write a similar response yesterday. The Royal Marines are an arm of the Royal Navy, just like the Fleet Air Arm, just like the old RMA (Royal Marine Artillery) but they are not sailors or RN ratings they are marines.

Also, one can be a Commando without being a Royal Marine, all members of the armed forces can complete the All Arms Commando Course & then return to their home regiment with a green beret. And one can be a Royal Marine without being a Commando.
For example, 29 Commando Regiment Royal Artillery, 59 Independent Commando Squadron Royal Engineers, and 24 and 131 Commando Squadron Royal Engineers are all army commandos but they're not Royal Marines. They are attached to 3 Commando Brigade.

Another one that many fall foul of is when they call the SAS a British Army regiment. The SAS is a British regiment but it doesn't belong to the army, it belongs directly to the govt. SAS chain of command bypasses both the Army and the MoD.

Yet another one is the HAC (Honourable Artillery Company)the 2nd oldest regiment in the Army, however it is not part of the Royal Regiment of Artillery, it is now a registered charity and TA unit manned mostly by professionals working in the City.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Chouan said:


> I doubt that your response would please any Marines or matelots! Marines aren't in the Navy although they're sort of attached to the Navy. They aren't of the Army either!


To be precise, the United States Marine Corps is a separate branch of service under the Department of the Navy.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Mike Petrik said:


> To be precise, the United States Marine Corps is a separate branch of service under the Department of the Navy.


As I understand it the USMC is much more autonomous from the USN than the Royal Marines are from the RN, I mean the fact that the USMC has its own vessels, aircraft etc. makes that plain. Also the clue is in the name "Corps." and in the chain of command - the USMC comes under the Dept of the Navy, whereas command is one step down for the Royal Marines who come under the Royal Navy itself, not directly under the Admiralty or MoD.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Another anomaly was the *RAF Air Sea Rescue & Marine Craft Section*. Which existed from 1918 to 1986.

Yes, the RAF had its own flottila, primarily for rescuing flyboys that ditched in the drink. But also for coastal evacuations (Dunkirk for example) and as a support service for the RAF's flying boats.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> In this context of course I'm talking about providing *ceremonial *guards and escorts for the president.


This is America.

We got no Beefeaters, Fusiliers or tarted up Royal nothing!!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> This is America.
> 
> We got no Beefeaters, Fusiliers or tarted up Royal nothing!!


God give me strength!

Insead of your constant answers that don't tally with the FACTS go and read about the tasks and duties of the 3rd Infantry Regiment instead. From your answers so far on this thread it is crystal clear that you don't know who they are or what they do!


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> As I understand it the USMC is much more autonomous from the USN than the Royal Marines are from the RN, I mean the fact that the USMC has its own vessels, aircraft etc. makes that plain. Also the clue is in the name "Corps." and in the chain of command - the USMC comes under the Dept of the Navy, whereas command is one step down for the Royal Marines who come under the Royal Navy itself, not directly under the Admiralty or MoD.


I can't speak for the Royal Marines, but you are correct that the US Marines are a fully autonomous branch of service, though they cooperate closely with other branches, most especially the Navy, consonant with their mission.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

WouldaShoulda said:


> First Troop, Philadelphia City Cavalry may be considered such.
> 
> It is a National Guard/Reserve unit but like many, they have done serious overseas deployments.
> 
> I wasn't a member but was assighned to their HHC Company. Back then we still used M-48s and APCs!!


Those uniforms rival the Household Division of the British Army. I wish our U.S. services had better ceremonial uniforms. Only the Marines come close.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> God give me strength!
> 
> Insead of your constant answers that don't tally with the FACTS go and read about the tasks and duties of the 3rd Infantry Regiment instead. From your answers so far on this thread it is crystal clear that you don't know who they are or what they do!


I have attended and participated in Presidential innaugurations as well as visit Arlington at least bi-annually. Although they have a lineage to Colonial Presidential guardianship, it is minor and obscure.

Our public officials and their accoutrements simply don't carry the pomp with which the UK and some Continentals grant them.

That's why you are having trouble finding such Corps with few exceptions one of which I graciously helped you with.

So there!!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I have attended and participated in Presidential innaugurations as well as visit Arlington at least bi-annually. Although they have a lineage to Colonial Presidential guardianship, it is minor and obscure.
> 
> Our public officials and their accoutrements simply don't carry the pomp with which the UK and some Continentals grant them.
> 
> ...


 Well why didn't you just say that in the first place?


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

There was a unit from the US Armed Forces that presided over my grandfather's funeral. My grandfather served in the US Army in WWII as part of the Air Corps. I don't know the name of the unit at the funeral, but they performed a ceremonial function on that day, and they did a phenomenal job.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
I don't know if this helps, but the Force Protection Group of the 89th Military Airlift Wing at Andrews AFB, provide funeral details for internment at Arlington National Cemetery. The Strategic Air Command's Elite Guard used to provide funeral details for the internment of current and retired SAC troops, as did the command security units for other MAJCOMs. Current budget realities have greatly curtailed the availability of such nicities. If your grandfather was interned recently, the honor guard was probably provided by a local National Guard unit.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> I don't know if this helps, but the Force Protection Group of the 89th Military Airlift Wing at Andrews AFB, provide funeral details for internment at Arlington National Cemetery. The Strategic Air Command's Elite Guard used to provide funeral details for the internment of current and retired SAC troops, as did the command security units for other MAJCOMs. Current budget realities have greatly curtailed the availability of such nicities. If your grandfather was interned recently, the honor guard was probably provided by a local National Guard unit.


Thank you. I've been meaning to find out the exact unit so that I can write a letter to the commanding officer to express my appreciation. This thread serves as a reminder to me.


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## dba (Oct 22, 2010)

pleasehelp said:


> There was a unit from the US Armed Forces that presided over my grandfather's funeral. My grandfather served in the US Army in WWII as part of the Air Corps. I don't know the name of the unit at the funeral, but they performed a ceremonial function on that day, and they did a phenomenal job.


If it was at Arlington, it could have been this crew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_Base_Honor_Guard

My son's best friend is in it and he is quite a squared away lad.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

pleasehelp said:


> There was a unit from the US Armed Forces that presided over my grandfather's funeral. My grandfather served in the US Army in WWII as part of the Air Corps. I don't know the name of the unit at the funeral, but they performed a ceremonial function on that day, and they did a phenomenal job.


I pulled funeral duty several times during my active Army service. We weren't particularly trained to do so but with a little practice the ceremony is rather simple and not too difficult to get down. As Eagle stated, I could picture it being perhaps a NG unit doing so.

"The old guard" was known for being the U.S. Army's ceremonial unit. Perfect uniforms, perfect boots and a parade attitude.


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