# San Francisco Hotels



## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

:icon_smile: Going to SF in late Oct. Where is the best place to stay. 1. Four Seasons, 2. Campton Place, 3. Mandarin Oriental,4. St. Regis.

Going to do some shopping. Any new places to hit? I know of all the usual ones. Also any advice for the ladies shops as well would be helpful as well as a good Italian restaurant. I know of one next to the Tadich but I forgot the name. What type of Italian food do they specialize in if anyone knows?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Italian food in San Francisco is questionable. Of all of the ethnic cuisines it is by far the worst. That said, the best are not in the center. They are Delfina, Acquarello, A16 and Antica Trattoria. A16 is Neapolitan food, Acquarello is Fiorentino and the others are a mixed bag. 

Those hotels are all OK. I have stayed at the first two a couple of times, but not at the latter two. Others to keep in mind would be the old classics like the Fairmont and the Huntington. It depends on what atmosphere you are looking for. Perhaps best of both worlds is the Ritz Carlton.

I don't know what your lady likes, but of the independent stores Susan on Sacramento Street is generally considered the best. It is high fashion in the vein of Maxfield but bought slightly differently. Wilkes and other downtown stores have more mundane, but equally expensive wares.


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## vijay toke (Oct 31, 2004)

A friend in the hotel business who used to run a large hotel in SF (he now runs the Ritz-Carlton property at Half Moon Bay) told me that in his opinion the two best hotels in SF are Campton Place and the Mandarin Oriental. But that was before the St. Regis went in and when the Four Seasons was brand new, so I don't know what he would say now. That said, I can vouch from experience that the staff at the Mandarin is very good--a group of friends and I have wine dinners there regularly, and the attention to detail that they have displayed is really notable. I've seen a room called the Taipan Suite, which is really exquisite, but I've not seen the regular rooms, so I can't tell you much about the accommodations.

As for restaurants, Matt is right; most Italian food in town is bad. It's ironic that a city that has such an Italo-centric neighborhood like North Beach has just one bad Italian joint after another throughout that neighborhood. Matt is also right that A16 and Acquerello are both excellent.

I live within a couple of blocks of A16 and go there all the time. The food is Southern Italian, simply prepared, and delicious. The wine list, which has some really unusual Southern Italian selections, is incredible and relatively reasonably priced. Basically, I love the place. Be warned, though, it is hard to get a reservation, and it can get very busy. I'd call at least two (preferably three or more) weeks ahead to secure a table, especially if your group is large. But if you do it last minute, the entire front part of the restaurant is reserved for walk-ins. Just be prepared to wait about an hour or more, depending on the day of the week, if you do decide to walk in. Here's a link to an article on one of the owners and her husband that ran in Food & Wine magazine a few months ago:

https://www.foodandwine.com/articles/san-franciscos-new-tastemakers

I would also say that Acquerello is amazing, though significantly pricier than A16. Giancarlo Paterlini, the owner and maitre d', is one of the most gracious and hospitable hosts you could ever come across. The food is absolutely delicious, though rich, and the service is top-notch. And though the decor of Acquerello is a bit tired, it is thankfully quiet (unlike A16). For a bustling food city like SF, such tranquility can at times be a luxury.

The Italian restaurant you were referring to next to Tadich is Perbacco. If I'm not mistaken, I think Perbacco purports to specialize in Piemontese cuisine. I'm not sure how closely they stick to that region, though. It opened almost a year ago and is doing very well. My office is right across the street, so I go there a lot. The owner, Umberto, his wine director, Mauro, and the front of the house staff are all wonderful, warm people. The waitstaff, however, while pleasant and gracious, are not as efficient as they should be. But the food is good, and the vibe of the place is great. You wouldn't go wrong eating at Perbacco (and it's close to the Mandarin if you stay there).

Sorry for the long diatribe, but you hit on another favorite topic of mine: food. I hope this helped.


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## tmack3 (Jan 14, 2006)

St Regis


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## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

If you are looking for something a little more intimate with lots of good Italian dining nearby, check-out the Washington Square Inn in the heart of North Beach. It's nextdoor to Moose's restaurant where a lot of SFO big-wigs drink and dine. However, it is not a big recognized luxury name like Four Seans or St. Regis.

My wife and I spent several days there and were very pleased by the accommodations, service, and location.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

https://www.theorchardhotel.com/


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

No offense, but I would not suggest to eat the Italian food near the Washington Square Hotel. It is typical tourist fare.

Vijay is right about A16 being a bear of a restaurant for reservations. I actually thought it was better before it changed chefs. My feeling is that the non-pizza food there is excellent and that the pizza is only OK. The wine list is really fantastic.

Delfina is also difficult for reservations, and the neighorhood is not so great. It is certainly not scenic. Their next door pizzaria has, in my mind, the best pizza in the city by a good margin and you can always get a table provided you don't mind waiting an hour or so.

Acquarello is just as Vijay explained it. It is also an easy reservation. Antica is close to my house and is a good, but not great, Italian restaurant with very good service and a nice atmosphere. It is definitely a local restaurant.

For any San Francisco visitor I would always suggest Zuni Cafe. It is a Mediterranean restaurant and easily the most popular place in the city both for locals and visitors. I would not say that the food is #1 in the whole town, although it is quite good, certainly as good as any of the Italian restaurants in question. What it is, however, is a very consistent restaurant that is one of the few places in San Francisco that has some real life to it. Highly recommended.


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## norcal_1 (Jul 24, 2007)

Quince, Quince, Quince!


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## vijay toke (Oct 31, 2004)

iammatt said:


> No offense, but I would not suggest to eat the Italian food near the Washington Square Hotel. It is typical tourist fare.


Agreed. That area features a lot of mediocre food.



iammatt said:


> Vijay is right about A16 being a bear of a restaurant for reservations. I actually thought it was better before it changed chefs. My feeling is that the non-pizza food there is excellent and that the pizza is only OK. The wine list is really fantastic.


I go back and forth on this. I overall think the restaurant is actually better today, especially the non-pizza food. This is partly due to the fact that A16 has become obsessive about the sources for their produce and meats. I'm not sure what to say about the pizza, though, because I've had nothing but really good experiences with it. Delfina's pizza is very good, but I really don't think it has much, if anything, over A16's. But, clearly, reasonable minds can differ on this. Pizza lovers, I find, are as varied in opinion as clothing aficianados, and often just as vociferous in voicing those opinions.



iammatt said:


> For any San Francisco visitor I would always suggest Zuni Cafe. It is a Mediterranean restaurant and easily the most popular place in the city both for locals and visitors. I would not say that the food is #1 in the whole town, although it is quite good, certainly as good as any of the Italian restaurants in question. What it is, however, is a very consistent restaurant that is one of the few places in San Francisco that has some real life to it. Highly recommended.


I wholeheartedly agree with Matt. Zuni is wonderful. It's amazing that a restaurant with a nearly thirty year history can remain as vibrant as ever. And though they haven't done that much to spruce up the interior over the years (that I'm aware of anyway), it still somehow feels remarkably current.

As for the recommendation of Quince, it is indeed very good. But it can be a bit precious for what it is IMO. A friend of mine who is in the wine business and eats out almost every day on the company dime says to me that Quince always seems too pricey for what it is even for him, even when he's putting the check on his expense account. My experiences there echo his sentiment. That said, if you do go there, you will undoubtedly have a very good meal.

Finally, I would agree with Matt's assessment of Antica Trattoria. I would add Ristorante Ideale in North Beach for a similar quality of food/service. It is generally considered one of the, if not the, best Italian restaurants in North Beach. It's probably at the top of the second-tier Italian restaurants in town, which is where I'd put Antica as well.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

1) Has the St. Francis gone to hell? I always loved that place.

2) The Mandarin Oriental is the one built in the late '80s as the Portman, correct?

3) Whatever you do, don't walk to Zuni down Market from downtown, at least not in a jacket and tie carrying shopping bags.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

manton said:


> 1) Has the St. Francis gone to hell? I always loved that place.
> 
> 2) The Mandarin Oriental is the one built in the late '80s as the Portman, correct?
> 
> 3) Whatever you do, don't walk to Zuni down Market from downtown, at least not in a jacket and tie carrying shopping bags.


In general I think the St. Francis has become too much of a convention hotel and with the installation of Michael Mina has lost whatever charm it had left.

Don't know about the Portman.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Mandarin Oriental - first class business hotel.
Ritz-Carlton - best all-around hotel (and location) in SF.
You will be happiest with either of these.

If you want an EXCELLENT divey Indian/Pakistani restaurant, go to Shalimar on Jones St. between O'Farrell and Geary. Not a great neigborhood, but generally safe. Do not wear nice clothes, as you will smell like tandoori until you have whatever you wear there cleaned. Shalimar has been reviewed as the best Indian/Pakistani in the US several times. Truly unique and excellent.

For nicer places, Zuni is great, though not a nice area for walking around. Tadich is classic, oldest restaurant in CA (older than the state, actually), perhaps would become a favorite on the Trad forum. Masa's is wonderful if an elaborate prix fixe meal is what you want.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

qwerty said:


> Mandarin Oriental - first class business hotel.
> Ritz-Carlton - best all-around hotel (and location) in SF.
> You will be happiest with either of these.
> 
> ...


After school I worked in the Masa's kitchen for a spell. It was a long time and several chefs (during Julian Serrano's time) ago, but I still have a soft spot for the place and try to return at least once a year. I think that it is better now under Gregory Short than when Ron Siegel was chef.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Tadich is more about the experience than the food. But the experience is fun. One food note: it is the last place in the world that you can still get the original recipe San Francisco sourdough bread. After the Parisian Bakery closed, they bought the recipe and made a deal with a smaller bakery to make it for the restaurant as an exclusive.


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## ner1971 (Apr 8, 2007)

As an Italian-American who has long been frustrated by the state of Italian cuisine in SF, I highly recommend Delfina and Delfina Pizzeria. The neighborhood (which incidentally is MY neighborhood) may not be some folks idea of "great", but it is colorful, honest and very much a true San Francisco mix. The over-hyped Tartine bakery is worth a visit on the same block, just so long as the line is not down the street.

I loved A16 when it first opened, but have not been in a couple of years due to straight-up rude service. I am not too uptight about service and usually am pretty forgiving, but a couple of bad experiences really put me off this place.

If you have a car and it's a sunny day, I also highly recommend driving across the Golden Gate Bridge to Sausalito and checking out a casual (but expensive) restaurant called Fish. It's one of my favorites in the area at the moment. Its a great place for lunch.

Hotel-wise, I am in the industry as they say and have had experience with all the hotels you mention. The St. Regis is a current favorite as they have good staff there, are fairly small, and are next door to SFMOMA which is one of my favorite places to visit here in town. You can't go wrong with any of the places you mentioned in my experience.

Enjoy your visit!


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## vijay toke (Oct 31, 2004)

iammatt said:


> After school I worked in the Masa's kitchen for a spell. It was a long time and several chefs (during Julian Serrano's time) ago, but I still have a soft spot for the place and try to return at least once a year. I think that it is better now under Gregory Short than when Ron Siegel was chef.


I agree that Masa's is very good at the moment. Greg Short's food, when it is on, is quite good. And Allan Murray, IMO, is hands down the best sommelier in town at the moment, especially after Larry Stone left Rubicon restaurant.

I will say, though, that while I never ate at Masa's during Ron Siegel's tenure there, I think his food at the Ritz-Carlton Dining Room is top-notch. In fact, I ate at the Dining Room a couple of months ago and have to say it was actually the best meal I have ever had in San Francisco.


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## vijay toke (Oct 31, 2004)

ner1971 said:


> I loved A16 when it first opened, but have not been in a couple of years due to straight-up rude service. I am not too uptight about service and usually am pretty forgiving, but a couple of bad experiences really put me off this place.


Yours is not a unique experience at A16. I think they had a bit of growing pains about a year to a year-and-a-half into their business. I have a friend who had a similar experience to you and was adamant that she didn't like the place. I took her there last week, and she completely changed her mind. She loved the food and thought the service was great. I know she will go back. I definitely recommend checking it out again.


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## wolfhound986 (Jun 30, 2007)

Chiming in late here to agree with vijay toke and all the mentions of Acquerello.



Currently their 5 course fixed price meal is $110.

I will say that I really enjoyed my dining experience there several years ago. Very classy and elegant, and one of the few restaurants in San Francisco where you can actually have a conversation with your dining companions without shouting. 

And because this is AAAC, noticed lots of suits and sportcoats in the crowd.:icon_smile_big:


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## Roikins (Mar 22, 2007)

vijay toke said:


> I agree that Masa's is very good at the moment. Greg Short's food, when it is on, is quite good. And Allan Murray, IMO, is hands down the best sommelier in town at the moment, especially after Larry Stone left Rubicon restaurant.
> 
> I will say, though, that while I never ate at Masa's during Ron Siegel's tenure there, I think his food at the Ritz-Carlton Dining Room is top-notch. In fact, I ate at the Dining Room a couple of months ago and have to say it was actually the best meal I have ever had in San Francisco.


I will second the food at Masa's to be excellent. I actually enjoyed it more than Gary Danko's, although Danko has a better cheese course selection. As for the Dining Room, I just ate there last weekend and it's very good. Even better was that at least 90% of the male diners had ties on! Two gentlemen even had pocket squares. Ties seem to be more and more rare at many of the restaurants I've been to of late. I even went to the French Laundry a few months ago, and not a single man had a tie -- they all had the jacket with the unbuttoned dress shirt look.


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## Full Canvas (Feb 16, 2006)

*Mandarin Oriental - Portman*



manton said:


> The Mandarin Oriental is the one built in the late '80s as the Portman, correct?


No, Portman had nothing to do with that project. The Mandarin Oriental's towers were built as an unrelated condominium project. When the project failed early on, the hotel idea was born. The Portman (later Pan Pacific and now Marriott) is near Union Square while the Mandarin Oriental is in the Financial District.

We stayed at the Mandarin Oriental in a corner suite on the 43rd floor of the second tower. Beautiful panoramic views (maybe San Francisco's best) are up there on both sides of the tower. On one side you can see the Golden Gate Bridge, the other side of the suite looked south toward distant Pleasanton and Fremont. When the fog rolled in, we witnessed below us a carpet of eerie eggshell gray with the Trans-America spire poking through. The Financial District location on Sansome Street was not a bother for us. It's a twenty-minute walk to Union Square. However, some guests might not like the location. A drawback inside the hotel is that the ONLY elevator to the upper floors is in the main tower. It serves both towers. The original design intent of residential towers would have been adequately served with one elevator. The hotel needs another elevator. Not to be missed is to take the elevator to one of the uppermost most floors in the dark of night and walk across the glass-walled sky bridge to the other tower for a view unlike any you might encounter elsewhere.

The Portman was built back in the mid-eighties. Ironically, the hotel he (Portman) finally named after himself was not such a great design. It's over on Post Street not too far from where Sulka had their store. The service-oriented hotel had a 24-hour valet/butler on each floor. When this idea didn't work well enough to bring in the guests, Pan Pacific took over. I think it's now the J.W. Marriott. We stayed in a small suite on the 6th or 7th floor back in 1990 or 1991. It was nothing special and the place was dark and empty. It was a one-half block walk to Farallon when that was a nice restaurant. Ironically, with Portman known for his atrium concept, the San Francisco one with his name on the outside was perhaps his worst atrium of all.

____________


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## ltontheqt (Aug 9, 2005)

This discussion saves me from having to post separately. I am headed to SF in three weeks on a college tour with my son. I am looking for a mid-range hotel ($200 or so a night). I suspect the prior suggestions do not meet my criteria.


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## TheHoff (Mar 31, 2007)

Italian: Bacco! Great little neighborhood place; probably my favorite trattoria in the area. What do the locals think?



ltontheqt said:


> This discussion saves me from having to post separately. I am headed to SF in three weeks on a college tour with my son. I am looking for a mid-range hotel ($200 or so a night). I suspect the prior suggestions do not meet my criteria.


, a Kimpton, is often in the $200/night range and it is in the middle of Union Square. For a real budget saver, try the Pickwick, SOMA.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Full Canvas said:


> Ironically, with Portman known for his atrium concept, the San Francisco one with his name on the outside was perhaps his worst atrium of all.


When I was a kid it seemed really cool. 

Of course, not as cool as the ultimate kid hotel, the Hyatt Regency Embarcadero, featured in _High Anxiety_. :aportnoy: Who needs the Fairmont, the St. Francis or the Mark Hopkins when you've got that?


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