# I had more friends when I was poor.



## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

I wonder if wealth brings out the competitive spirit in people? I find it harder to make real friends now (other than the ones who want something from me, like sales staff, real estate agents and their ilk) than when I was struggling to climb the money tree.

When I got to the top, I thought women would be attracted to me like flies to a honeypot, based on the power/wealth empirical stats. Sadly, not even gold-diggers have given me a glance.

Is this typical? After all, I'm the same guy inside.

Should I give it all away to the local cat's home so I can mix with the happy-go-lucky pub & bingo crowd again?


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Some people had more friends when they were rich...

I've found it's best if you start rich and stay rich.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

I'm not rich by most standards, but I do have a lot more money than I did then when I was going to school. I still have the same friends, we all go out to eat every Friday night. There are some people at work who I would consider friends as well.

I guess the trick is to not let on that you have a bunch of money. Drive a not-too-fancy car, wear nice clothes but dress to the occasion (you don't need a $3000 suit and cordovan leather shoes to hang out at a coffee house 


Good/Fast/Cheap - Pick Two


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Kenz,

Its far better to be rich than to be poor but don't get too rich. Some of the most miserable people I have known (and in one instance worked for) were ungodly rich - 25 million dollar homes, not just a private jet but a private 737, etc. - and they were some of most miserable human beings, souls lacking in any poetry whatsoever, that you could ever meet. I am sure there are decent people who are mega-mega rich, I just haven't met them yet.

I am hardly rich but am doing well enough at this stage in my career but sometimes I wonder if I was happier as struggling college student, using the the gas card my dad provided me (once upon receiving the bill he asked if I was launching a leveraged buy out of Exxon with the family gas card) with to go grocery shopping at the Quick-mart, drinking cheap beer and when a twenty dollar bill found in the pocket of your khakis was like manna from heaven. Maybe we should all just move to France. Rich can you recommend a good immigration attorney? 

Karl


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
> 
> Some people had more friends when they were rich...
> 
> I've found it's best if you start rich and stay rich.


Or is that start Rich and stay Rich?


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> 
> Kenz,
> 
> Its far better to be rich than to be poor but don't get too rich.


Right. People who win gigantic sums on the national lottery seem to end up having nervous breakdowns and losing it all through "unwise investments" (i.e., being cheated out of it by their new "friends").


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
> Right. People who win gigantic sums on the national lottery seem to end up having nervous breakdowns and losing it all through "unwise investments" (i.e., being cheated out of it by their new "friends").


I saw a show on the Discovery channel about lottery winners. Most loose all their money within a few years and end up with less money than when they start. The problem is, people seem to think that a million dollars is all the money in the world. With that mentality, it goes pretty quick.

The people who stay rich are those with a plan. One lottery winner received a huge amount of money, something like $80 million after taxes. He paid off his debts, bought a new house and car, then invested the rest. He figures he makes about $9,000 in interest a day, after taxes and bills. So he never spends more than $9,000 a day; if he wants a $90,000 car, he waits ten days without buying much, then blows it. His house was full of expensive ugly things, however. Stuff you'd see at casino art galleries in Vegas. You can't buy taste, I guess.

Good/Fast/Cheap - Pick Two


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

Who was it that once said that sucess is the most unforgivable sin one can commit on a friend? I'm the token underachiever in my current circle of friends. I used to feel a pang of envy whenever one of them got a new car or mentioned getting a house. These days though I'm really getting comfortable with who I am short comings and all. There will always be people who are better off them you and worse off then you. You must make a choice who to keep around you based on their behavior. Once many years ago I waited tables for year in the same resturant as a cousin who was the same age. He spread a rumor around that I was gay. Why did he do this? He was overweight, socially awkward, yet extreamly arrogant. Turns out that one of the cute waitresses had the hots for me, a girl who turned him down for a date before. Never underestimate how envy and competition will make people do crazy things.


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## MarkY (Mar 24, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by kenz_
> 
> When I got to the top, I thought women would be attracted to me like flies to a honeypot, based on the power/wealth empirical stats. Sadly, not even gold-diggers have given me a glance.
> 
> ...


Don't take this the wrong way..... but after reading the above, I'm doubting you're the same guy. Cocky and ego come to mind.

Mark


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## eromlignod (Nov 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MarkY_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It depends on what you call "rich". There's "rich" and then there's "has better than average disposable income". A guy who has no children and makes $250K/yr is not rich.

Those in the latter category seem to spend their money trying to look "rich" by indulging in ostentation. Those who are truly rich generally strive _not_ to look rich (ostensibly because they receive too much unwanted attention already).

As far as women are concerned...fame/importance works better than money as an aphrodisiac anyway. You can't buy lasting fame and you can't buy class.

Don
Kansas City


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## Spudbunny (Aug 1, 2005)

[/quote]

Right. People who win gigantic sums on the national lottery seem to end up having nervous breakdowns and losing it all through "unwise investments" (i.e., being cheated out of it by their new "friends").
[/quote]

Lottery winners have been systematically studied by social scientists. Winners on average report they are much happier for one year after they win. Thereafter they report they are about as happy as they were before they won the money.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Spudbunny_
> 
> Lottery winners have been systematically studied by social scientists. Winners on average report they are much happier for one year after they win. Thereafter they report they are about as happy as they were before they won the money.


That makes complete sense; by then they realize that money didn't make their lives a magical fantasyland and are used to the idea that "I can buy whatever I want!" so no longer feel that they have to do so... if there's any left. I would bet the same sort of long-term result also follows cosmetic surgery.

kenz, I wonder if part of it is that you're just getting older? I find it harder now to make real friends too. Things change when you're out of college or you stop hanging out with a lot of contemporaries who are about at the same point in their careers. Once people have families of their own, they're less likely to want to buddy up on the weekend, unless their family (spouse/kids) want to hang out with yours.

As for the women... you really don't want to meet social climbers and gold-diggers, do you? Have you tried an internet service and getting to know someone based on mutual personality before letting them know you're rolling in it? 

I do find that one of my formerly very good friends is rather overly competitive and it just became tiresome. (It's nice to be able to mention a promotion and get a "you go, girl!" instead of being topped instantly with "well, _I_ just got a bigger expense account!". ZZzzzzz.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I agree with a poster above, there is a difference between high disposable income and "rich". To me, rich means you never have to work again. My wife and I are part of the dreaded "1%" club but I do not consider us rich as we need to work another 9 years or so (until we're 45) to retire and be able to continue the life style we want.

I think one tends to lose friends due to a shift in frames of reference. For instance, I could never talk about MTM vs. bespoke to any of my friends I've kept from my teens and 20s. They all wear jeans and meshback baseball caps. Too with food, as my best friend of 20 years works a blue collar job, has two kids and wife that works part time at a retail store. He and I share different tastes now as I search for who has the best foi gras presentation and the newest accquistion of true vintage port while he searchs for which pub will allow his toddlers in for the pizza and beer special. These two examples make neither one of us inferior or superior to the other, it is just we no longer share the same horizons, making the deep sharing we had as youngsters more difficult.

Sorry to grow maudlin, but I've actually grappled with this subject over the last few years, having noticed this in my life. One can try and not let money "get in the way" but as happ as I am to subsidize my best friend and/or his family so we can do things together, it is not always well received on his side. 

Warmest regards


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## Vettriano Man (Jun 30, 2005)

I'm only in my early fifties, but still healthy thank God, though the older I get the more I realize that good health is actually the richest thing in life and all the money in the world cannot take it's place.


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## jcbmath (Jan 11, 2006)

I know one thing: when I didn't have enough money to buy anything I didn't have to worry about my clothes. Those sort of decisions took care of themselves on the basis of economics alone. I wonder if I was happier then ...


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I have neither money nor friends, but that's probably because I'm a mean, vicious s.o.b.


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Patrick06790_
> 
> I have neither money nor friends, but that's probably because I'm a mean, vicious s.o.b.


We could probably hang out then. 

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford.

John Adams


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## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

Yes, as VS and others mention, age probably makes a difference. As a youngster (I'm mid-50's now) I was in the services and endured several different employments where there was some bonding through shared tasks or hardship. Bonding is always easier when you're young.

But for several decades since I've either had businesses or been self-employed, and so my friendship circle has changed drastically. And because I never mix business with pleasure, I have to look elsewhere. That's been a challenge.

The other division with my friends comes from me having money, and them not having it. I still have several close friends of 10, 20 years duration - even school friends. We all get on well, but because I have a Lexus SUV and two sports Mercedes, a hilltop home with seaviews... ad nauseum... there seems to be a growing distance between us now.

Of course I could give everything away, Yes, I could choose less ostentatious vehicles and house. But what's the use of earning big if you can't spend it on what you want? And I've wanted these things for a long time. To get them I've endured many years in the wilderness with failed businesses and seesawing cashflow.

But as I said, I'm the same guy inside. Still have a healthy ego.

I manage to keep my lifelong friends because they understand:
(a) I earned my money through fine tuning my skills. Not the lottery.
(b) I act the same as I always have, with or without stuff. It's just stuff (even though highly polished and in the best possible taste 

In contrast, my friends have not succeeded. I have tried to help them, but they just do not have the x factor. Like me they've made bad business decisions, and done all the things I have managed to overcome or avoid. It worked for me - buy sadly not for them.

As for the women thing, I was throwing out a line. I've been happily married for over 30 years to the same lady, and never ever looked sideways at anyone else. I just want women to throw themselves at me for the bragging rights


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## jeansguy (Jul 29, 2003)

I'm far from wealthy, but I am the most succesful of my old peer group.

It's akward. I ran into a friend with whom I spent 90% of my free time in high school with.

He literally looked like a beggar - dirty, wrinkled clothes, missing teeth, bored stupid look on his face. He didn't even recognize me in a tie and slacks. No way I could ever be friends again.

Another example. I have always been interested in cars. I like to work on them, I like to drive them. I appreciate a modified mustang as well as a M5.

I began a conversation with one of these fellows the other day about new cars that were coming out, and which vehicles we like. After each name would come up, he would reply "who can afford that" or "must be nice to be rich". Mind you, I'm not looking at Porsche's here, just comfortable transportation.

I think that as people climb the social ladder two things happen. First, I think that less succesful people are less confident, and other people's success makes them question their own value. Second, how many succesful people do you know who got to work from Monday to Friday 9-5 with two coffee breaks and an hour for lunch? It's hard to meet people when you are always at the office, and are tired when you get home.

Anyhow, I still call some old friends friends, but I see them much less often. If I had to spend the same amount of time with them as I used to, I'd probably kill them all 

www.thegenuineman.com


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## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
> 
> ...I've found it's best if you start rich and stay rich.


That makes sense. And it's the main reason lotto winners - most who come from a blue-collar background - can't keep their money permanent in the same way as someone used to handling large sums can.

Which makes me think...for years I've never added the word "thousand" or "million" to a price. A car costs 78... a house 1.2. It's an ingrained habit that I originally cultivated to take the terror of out large numbers. Many people mentally compare a large sum to their meagre salary, and as a result are too frightened to make the mind shift to earning big.

But I notice that my poorer friends always have to confirm the price, "Do you mean seventy-eight thousand?" Maybe thinking that it's $7,800.

(BTW, I hate the term "poor." But it is the best motivator I can have. When I wake up in the morning, it's that term that drags me out of bed to my home office to work on yet another wealth stabilizing project. Without the incessant internal goading, I'd truly be poor).


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## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jbmcb_
> 
> ...I guess the trick is to not let on that you have a bunch of money. Drive a not-too-fancy car, wear nice clothes but dress to the occasion..


So why do most people desire money? Imagine rolling up to a fancy restaurant in a Toyota Thingme and saying at every opportunity..."I can really afford a Ferrari..."

What's the use of having, yet not using?

So, what if we chose the less ostentatious forms of money...rare artworks, hidden mansions, private jets... things that are only seen by a select few. Would many people be happy with that? People are gregarious, team-loving people, and having a hidden trove goes against human nature.

I honestly think having money is a complex issue. The number of people who die with a million tucked under their mattress beggars belief.Yet I fail to understand why.


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## 1984 (May 30, 2005)

I have learned that my family members are my closest friends. I don't have tons of friends nor tons of money either. I have a few friends outside my family, who have remain loyal for many years. 


-Joshua


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

Money without social influence and power doesn't mean much: Take, for example, the money-lending jews in the medieval time; kings borrowed money from them; kings couldn't repay the money; kings slaughtered them.

Wealth without objectives to occupy your life only leads to boredom -- have some affairs, it'll elevate your spirit.

True enjoyment from having money is freedom from the marketplace -- from having to "sell" yourself -- and then leisure. Material satisfaction -- conspicuous consumption -- will never make you truly happy. It is just a way to suck money from you. My suggestion to the rich men: Stop working, sell your business, and take up a real adventure as those middle-age knights did. But most won't, as the desire to make money often grows the strongest in the least courageous souls.

Middle-class and working-class people, growing up with an insatiable desire for money and security, seldom find true enjoyment once they have "made it," because making money is all they have learned and desired. Deplorable.

Friendship is overrated: All it takes is a big pot of gold or a beautiful maid; many friends become deadly foes, deadlier than strangers.




The Gentle Cheetah


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GentleCheetah_
> 
> Stop working, sell your business, and take up a real adventure as those middle-age knights did. But most won't, as the desire to make money often grows the strongest in the least courageous souls.


I do not think I could disagree with a statement more. To a man and woman, every person I know that has made substantial money was a risk taker and dared where others sought security. The timid do not accumulate wealth, they only inherit it. The brave take the risk to actualize what might be and fail as often as not. If accumulating wealth were easy and safe, all would have it.

Warmest regards


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
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You call risk-taking related to money making "courageous?"

The Gentle Cheetah


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> I do not think I could disagree with a statement more. To a man and woman, every person I know that has made substantial money was a risk taker and dared where others sought security. The timid do not accumulate wealth, they only inherit it. The brave take the risk to actualize what might be and fail as often as not. If accumulating wealth were easy and safe, all would have it.


I agree... and that might be another "friendship barrier"; differences in personality and essential temperament. If you're a high-flying risk-taker, people who aren't could feel intimidated.

People generally feel most comfortable around others who understand where they're coming from.

Using an extreme example, how about the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina? Did it take time to dawn on anybody else why people didn't "just leave"? It took a whack on the head to make me realize that access to a car is a problem, so people didn't necessarily have transportation to travel just 100 miles, or the social capital to be able to move in with a friend in another state easily on a temporary basis*. And I'm not a rich, out-of-touch person in an ivory tower.

It is just as hard to understand the day-to-day concerns of a friend in vastly diminished circumstances as it would be to hear about your yacht-owning friend's tax problems when you're crippled with student loans and eating ramen five times a week.

(*I think that in a natural disaster, Patrick would probably let me crash on his sofa, but only if I brought pretzels. Since he's vicious, though, maybe not!)


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by GentleCheetah_
> 
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I am very sorry, but I cannot see where I called it courageous although I do see where you implied most people that make money are cowards. Regardless, I can tell from our brief exchange you and I will not find common ground on this topic. In my life, those people I've met that deny being a self made success takes dedication and the ability to take risk are either too scared or lazy themselves to undertake the task or were born to money. The former I can excuse, the later I cannot. We should just agree to disagree at this point.

Warmest regards


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by kenz_
> So why do most people desire money? Imagine rolling up to a fancy restaurant in a Toyota Thingme and saying at every opportunity..."I can really afford a Ferrari..."


If you can afford a Ferrari, you can have a Ferrari for the fancy restaraunts as well as a very nice Toyota or Chrysler for the bowling alley. Besides, driving a flash car around everywhere you go is rather tasteless.



> quote:
> The number of people who die with a million tucked under their mattress beggars belief.Yet I fail to understand why.


My grandpa's brother, a brilliant investor, died in a squalid apartment, with coffee cans holding over $100,000 under his mattress. Needless to say, he was crazy, in an institutional sense. At one time he was worth over $250K in 60's money, but blew it all on some absurd scheme.

Good/Fast/Cheap - Pick Two


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:In my life, those people I've met that deny being a self made success takes dedication and the ability to take risk are either too scared or lazy themselves to undertake the task or were born to money. The former I can excuse, the later I cannot. We should just agree to disagree at this point.


And a 'little bit o luck'!


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by kenz_
> Yes, I could choose less ostentatious vehicles and house. But what's the use of earning big if you can't spend it on what you want?


Perhaps it is the ostentation rather than the wealth that has driven off friends.

One of my good friends is the scion of one of Australia's wealthiest families, and wealthy in his own right. He drives a "Toyota Thingme". Everyone around him knows that he is uber-rich, but he also happens to be unaffected and subtle. He does not suffer from want of friends.

Aus_MD


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Aus_MD_
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Doctor, echoing your comment, here is a quote from de Tocqueville (Chapter X: OF THE TASTE FOR PHYSICAL WELL-BEING IN AMERICA )



> quote:
> If I were to inquire what passion is most natural to men who are stimulated and circumscribed by the obscurity of their birth or the mediocrity of their fortune, I could discover none more peculiarly appropriate to their condition than this love of physical prosperity. The passion for physical comforts is essentially a passion of the middle classes; with those classes it grows and spreads, with them it is preponderant. From them it mounts into the higher orders of society and descends into the mass of the people.
> 
> I never met in America any citizen so poor as not to cast a glance of hope and envy on the enjoyments of the rich or whose imagination did not possess itself by anticipation of those good things that fate still obstinately withheld from him.
> ...


The Gentle Cheetah


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Vettriano man_
> 
> I'm only in my early fifties, but still healthy thank God, though the older I get the more I realize that good health is actually the richest thing in life and all the money in the world cannot take it's place.


In France we say "It's better to be rich and in good health than poor and ill".


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by GentleCheetah_
> 
> Doctor, echoing your comment, here is a quote from de Tocqueville (Chapter X: OF THE TASTE FOR PHYSICAL WELL-BEING IN AMERICA )
> 
> ...


GentleCheetah

Thank you. A passion that afflicts us in the antipodes, also.

Aus_MD


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## kabert (Feb 6, 2004)

I've found that my circle of friends has gotten more defined (read: smaller) as I've done things that sapped up my free time:

(i) went to law school
(ii) moved from small firm to big firm
(iii) got married
(iv) had kids

So, there's plenty of money, and I love my family, but I've also got precious-little time to devote to friends. Personally, I think that has alot to do with it. No time and being more stressed out than I used to be due to family and job.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

> quote:_On the other hand, I never perceived among the wealthier inhabitants of the United States that proud contempt of physical gratifications which is sometimes to be met with even in the most opulent and dissolute aristocracies. Most of these wealthy persons were once poor; they have felt the sting of want; they were long a prey to adverse fortunes; and now that the victory is won, the passions which accompanied the contest have survived it; their minds are, as it were, intoxicated by the small enjoyments which they have pursued for forty years.
> _


_

As they used to say on the Dallas Cowboys: "When you get to the end zone, act like you've been there before."_


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## kenz (Jul 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Aus_MD_
> 
> 
> 
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Ostentatious wealth is always a sign of new money. And I realise I'm probably a perfect example of that, even though many of my purchases tend to be conservative. For example, I would never wear a gold Rolex - my Omega suits me fine, and has probably enabled me to stay unmugged in some of the countries I've visited.

Old money follows a pattern everywhere... large country homes filled with inherited furniture, conservative cars like Jags and Range Rovers, a disdain for flashy clothing, 'tweedy' pursuits like flyfishing and cigar smoking, personal staff.

I'm not the type to fit with old money, nor am I flashy or modern. I'm stuck between two defined worlds, and the only real satisfaction is the fulfilment of my childhood dreams - and personal freedom.

The latter is the top-ranking reason for my constant striving, even now. The freedom from bosses, timeframes, other's obligations.

If I could measure success on any scale, freedom alone would hit the perfect 10. The rest is window dressing.


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