# Banana Republic/JCrew suits "just for kids?"



## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

I'm forty-something, with a relatively decent income, and with a desire to buy some new clothes. I have enormous flexibility in what I wear, and can show up for work in torn jeans and t-shirts if I want. (Wouldn't be the first time.) But I'm getting older now - and hopefully wiser - and I'm giving myself a budget of a few grand to update and upgrade my look. And for the first time I'm starting to look at suits.

To my eye, the suits at BR/JC have relatively "casual" fabrics and stylings that appeal to me. I also like the $500 price tag vs. the $2K or $3K price of the "designer" suits, which I simply can't justify. In between, all I see are suits that look stuffy, uncomfortable and designed for men approaching their twilight years. But... I just can't shake the feeling that BR/JC suits are intended for a "kid getting his first real job" who wants to look good on a starting salary. Am I wrong in thinking that?

As an untrained shopper and dresser, I love the "one-stop-shopping" aspect of suiting up at BR/JC. But that's another factor that worries me. Are they just "Men's Wearhouse" for the younger, slightly more affluent, set?

Quite frankly, if I hadn't discovered this forum I would have likely bought some BR/JC suits already... I would have felt like a million bucks wearing them... and I would have received a million compliments from the 99% of people who wouldn't know any better anyway. But now... I feel like I'm starting to know better. Are you people turning me into a clothes snob? After only a couple of days of lurking here I'm already "retiring" half of the "dressy" clothes I own. I'm looking for a local tailor to alter the other half I'm keeping. I just went out and bought a pair of Chelseas. I didn't even know what Chelseas were 48 hours ago. I thought they were boots.

Any advice/hand-holding here is appreciated, and I thank you in advance.


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

Banana Republic and J. Crew are clothes made for a younger crowd yes. I'd say somewhere in the range of 28-45 is the age group.

Most of the people here on this forum will go bonkers if they hear the words Banana Republic or J. Crew next to the word suit. They find their stylings too fickle and based upon fashion, and these same people believe that all people who buy suits should purchase them from some conservative institution that doesn't have its lapels too wide or narrow. These are also the same people who love the "classic" stylings Brooks Brothers and its friends. J. Crew and Banana Republic clothes are more modern designer fashion. If you are comfortable with that then by all means you should buy something there and do not listen to the talk about how it is designer fashion.

The quality standards for those two brands are not going to be as high. The fabrics, construction methods, and build quality of their clothing is not going to be all that high up on the list of brands. The suits are made in some third world country in an assembly line. However, for all its fallacies as a brand because it is a _not_ the classic styling and best of build quality, these brands are not all that bad. I own a few of their dress shirts and ties, and I own a lot of their chinos. Buying their product on sale is your best bet because their product is not worth the full retail price.

As you said "99%" of the people who looked at you would have no clue about the if the collar of your shirt and chest of your jacket was fused or unfused. As long as everything fits properly (as in chest, shoulders, collar, and length) no one can think lesser of you.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

"Banana Republic/JCrew suits "just for kids?" 

Pretty much. I used to buy sportswear at BR perhaps 15 years ago, and wandered into one this past winter and was astonished at how poor average quality had fallen there. If you buy a suit there you will get one that is not very good, that is worth less than the price you paid and that will look bad when worn. Haven't looked at J. Crew in a while, but would be surprised if they're much different. These companies have concentrated on two things: marketing and reducing the cost of manufacture of what they sell. You purchase the consequences. 

You can still get a decent suit at Brooks, if they're in Canada, and I would be very surprised if Vancouver didn't have some well established men's clothiers that also sell them. If you can avoid fashion names you can probably find a very fine suit for significantly less. Certainly less $2,000 US, and probably less than $1,000 US.


----------



## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of input I was hoping for.

*sigh*

It's true. Ignorance was bliss. Ah, well... off to check out the BB offerings...


----------



## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

If you want something stylish and fashionable, and you are on the thinner side, I think the J.Crews look great.

If you want to go upscale but still cool, think about some of the less stuffy good brands out there, like Isaia. Italian slimmer fit. Check out STP if you want almost affordable Isaia

You could also go the British way of sleek, with slimmer suits and ticket pockets and such. Ben Sherman, Austin Reed (the better ones), something like that. TM Lewin or CT or other Jermyn Street stores in London have some slimmer, non-stuffy choices, but may not be better quality than J.Crew's suits. https://www.tmlewin.co.uk/MensSuitProductList.aspx/Men/MenswearSuits

For the more British country cool look, try Bookster. It is not just tweed, and with the right choices could edge into Mod. https://www.tweed-jacket.com/

If you want a really cool slim suit, that is also fully canvassed and made to measure, check out Thick as Thieves. This is what J.Crew is trying to imitate off the rack I think:

Quality need not be boring!


----------



## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

J.Marko said:


> If you want to go upscale but still cool, think about some of the less stuffy good brands out there, like Isaia. Italian slimmer fit. You could also go the British way of sleek, with slimmer suits and ticket pockets and such. Ben Sherman, Austin Reed (the better ones), something like that. Check out STP if you want almost affordable Isaia


Coupon for STP:
20% off, no minimum required. Just use code BBQ at checkout.


----------



## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

More great suggestions. Thanks. I'd definitely like to look closer to 30 than to 50. I'm also built more like a rugby player than a male model. Any thoughts on that regard?


----------



## realbrineshrimp (Jun 28, 2010)

ExpertiseInNone said:


> As you said "99%" of the people who looked at you would have no clue about the if the collar of your shirt and chest of your jacket was fused or unfused. As long as everything fits properly (as in chest, shoulders, collar, and length) no one can think lesser of you.


Pretty much this. I definitely think you can get a better deal (quality for price) than Banana Republic and J.Crew but their clothing isn't a bad choice if it makes you happy and fits well. But like ExpertiseInNone said, their clothing is going to be a bit more fashion forward than some of the traditional suit brands. For a $500 price tag I think you have a lot of leeway - if you have patience you can wait for sales and get a lot higher quality suit from a more traditional brand, such as Brooks Brothers, if you like that.


----------



## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

AskDandy said:


> I'm forty-something





> all I see are suits that look stuffy, uncomfortable and designed for men approaching their twilight years.


"Stuffy" is in the eye of the beholder, but there's the other extreme - a middle-aged guy who is obviously trying to dress like his college-age son. It's not a good look.

Looking uncomfortable is a common sight, but it's not endemic to the design of a traditionally-cut suit. The most common culprit in uncomfortableness that I see is men who rarely wear a suit so they don't know how to wear it, or worse yet have been trying to wear the same suit they bought post-high school/post-colllege, even though they weigh 25+ lbs. more. There's always the guy with the 18" neck who is still trying to wear the 16" shirt he bought back when he wasn't so fat. There's the guy who bought a suit on sale at J.C. Penny's that didn't quite fit, but it was cheap, he needed a suit, and he doesn't know anything about getting it altered, and he's still trying to wear it. OTOH, a properly fitted, quality suit feels wonderful when you wear it - not uncomfortable at all. The opposite, in fact.



> But... I just can't shake the feeling that BR/JC suits are intended for a "kid getting his first real job" who wants to look good on a starting salary. Am I wrong in thinking that?


I would say that demographic is targeted by those retailers.



AskDandy said:


> I'd definitely like to look closer to 30 than to 50.


Me too 

Just be careful. There's no reason to for you to feel as if you're dressed like your grandfather, but dressing age-inappropriate brands you as either clueless or seriously insecure.



> I'm also built more like a rugby player than a male model. Any thoughts on that regard?


The best way to look younger is to be in the best physical condition possible. I slimmed down from "overweight" to squarely in the middle of "normal" BMI, and many people have told me that I look easily ten years younger. I feel it too. It makes everything I wear, even traditional-cut clothing, look better.


----------



## Pembers (May 3, 2010)

For exactly $500 you can get a Benjamin Sartorial suit from eHaberdasher.com. Having heard great things about these I've ordered one - if you like, I'll tell you how it turns out (not that I'm a great expert myself)! It's fully canvassed and looks really impressive for the price.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Racer said:


> Just be careful. There's no reason to for you to feel as if you're dressed like your grandfather, but dressing age-inappropriate brands you as either clueless or seriously insecure.


Much astute advice. But I must ask, why does anyone wish to appear to be in their 30's rather than 40's? I believe most of us have been conditioned to believe that youth is the only desirable state to the extent that the premise is never even questioned, we just collectively nod. If we're not a neo-adolescent we've failed, we're lacking.

The source of this group-think isn't hard to locate. Young people buy more stuff and are easier to manipulate into doing so. A constant barrage of youth images and buying messages flood all media to the extent that many have allowed it to define the world in which they live. Gone are the days of the dapper, mature sporting gents that graced the pages of Esky/AA.

My opinion? The 40's are a wonderful decade of life! No longer a boy, but not old. My advice? Embrace it, and be the man you truly are.


----------



## David_E (Apr 18, 2010)

ExpertiseInNone said:


> Banana Republic and J. Crew are clothes made for a younger crowd yes. I'd say somewhere in the range of 28-45 is the age group.
> 
> Most of the people here on this forum will go bonkers if they hear the words Banana Republic or J. Crew next to the word suit. They find their stylings too fickle and based upon fashion, and these same people believe that all people who buy suits should purchase them from some conservative institution that doesn't have its lapels too wide or narrow. These are also the same people who love the "classic" stylings Brooks Brothers and its friends. J. Crew and Banana Republic clothes are more modern designer fashion. If you are comfortable with that then by all means you should buy something there and do not listen to the talk about how it is designer fashion.
> 
> ...


ExpertiseInNone hit it right on the nose here.

I actually rather like BR for my business casual shirts/pants - they are one of the few companies that are still doing clothes for slender men. As for their suits... I think they are really overpriced for what you get. If you want the modern style, but are looking for a better value I'd say try on a few to figure out what cuts look good on you, then haunt your local Syms, Filene's Basement, and Nordstrom Rack and watch for brands with a similar cut to show up at a much better price. (also if you have a Nordstrom near by they are still having a summer sale, which might be followed by an anniversary sale. Very decent prices. Grab a younger sales guy and have him help you out. They are about the last dept. store to actually train their staff. They get dumped on a lot here, but I've always had a good experience)

I'd hold off on Sierra Trading Post or other online retailers until you have figured out what size and cut your are in several major brands and the different lines in those brands - fit makes far more difference than any other aspect of the suit. Nobody should be looking inside your lapel to see the label, few will ever touch the fabric, and not even the members of this forum can tell if its canvased or fused without putting both hands on the jacket. So a $200 no-name suit sweatshop suit made of polyester that fits well and is well tailored will make you look better than a $2000 suit that doesn't fit your shape.

One other thing to consider - If your going with a modern style, don't worry so much about construction. Your aiming to look great now which means your same suit will not look great 10 years from now even if its very well made. The appeal of the so called "timeless style" you hear about here is that you can wear the same suit for 20 years. It never "goes out of style" because its never IN style - its just conservative enough that it looks perpetually slightly dated, rather than ever looking ridiculous like anything that is especially fashion forward today will in 5 years.


----------



## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

Don't forgo the Banana Republic and J. Crew options just yet. I don't own any suits from either company but I actually do own a couple of sport coats from BR and the quality is surprising good for what I paid (which wasn't near full price) and the perceived quality of the brand by people who don't own any clothing from them. I don't know about J. Crew but BR suits actually feature canvas-construction I believe half-canvassed. Their tailored garments actually feature some fine fabrics as well as J. Crew, wool from the mills of Vitale Barberis Canonico, Reda, Loro Piana, Marzotto and Cerruti. I also thought the collar was well-made with the wool cut and folded under then stitched to the under collar. I would suggest finding out if there are any BR outlet stores in the Vancouver area as I have found some good deals there and also check out the BR Monogram line which features some really nice fabrics, more classic designs and slightly better construction. 

Also, remember to those who reply that the OP lives in Canada and certain stores won't apply to the situation.


----------



## David_E (Apr 18, 2010)

theFancyMan: I was totally unaware that BR jackets suits might be canvased! I just assumed they were fused. That might explain why their prices seemed so disproportionately high. I definatly second the never buy anything at full price from BR idea. I forgot to mention that too... They go a little bit the way of JAB - there are frequent deep discount sales, and if you get the BR card you get even more options and gift cards.

I also must admit I didn't notice the Origin of the poster. I have no idea of Nordstrom/NR, Syms, Filenes are options.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You've been a little misled. Most "high end designer suits" are utter garbage. You're paying for the name with Gucci, Versace, and Dolce & Gabbana, not quality construction.

Brooks Brothers has slightly "younger" cuts with their 1818 Regent and Fitzgerald suits. They could work for you since the lapels/trousers aren't excessively narrow and the jackets don't have ridiculous waist suppression (which looks feminine to me). Try before you buy -- if you're a built guy you may actually need a Madison. Their suits are 40% off right now along with a lot of other stuff. Sometimes they're buy-one-get-one. I'm not sure when that's happening next, but for that you could get a grey and navy to start with.

Please don't be one of the middle-aged guys trying desperately to be "young" again. Hell, I'm about two decades younger and _I_ don't like the fashion forward stuff. That should, hopefully, say something. 

Personally, I find the shirts and suits at Banana Republic to be really badly cut, even for the price. The ties and some other little things aren't bad though, but I wouldn't buy them at full price either.


----------



## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

Thanks again, everyone. Ton of great info. I went into the bustling metropolis of Vancouver today *snicker* and spent a good hour or so with an old Italian tailor. He and his trusty tape measure confirmed that nothing off the rack fits me properly :crazy:. Well, actually, turns out that Zegna jackets fit me _perfectly_. But then there's the small matter of the ten inch drop from shoulder to waist. And, uh, the price tag doesn't fit me that well, either . I also dropped into BR and made my original question moot. Absolutely nothing in the store fits me at all, from their suits to their plain cotton T's. I'll bet even their socks don't fit me. So at least I answered that...


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

BR is crap. I've bought socks, trousers, and a jacket from them. The socks were fine. The trousers fell apart within months. The jacket got caught on a door handle and ripped. Repaired reasonably well, but it's not a quality brand. 

J Crew is a casual brand. Their forays into dress clothing are uniformly misguided, from dress shirts in S/M/L sizing, to hip-hugger trousers, to clumsy jackets.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

AskDandy: Sorry to hear that. But take heart, as you can still get made to measure. In fact, isn't Canada the home of Samuelsohn? A quick store locator search for your city found several retailers.


----------



## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

I am in a similar boat - mid 40s, bigger in the chest, neck and shoulders then i should be, and things don't fit me well. Zegna also fits me best. Tailor told me Isaia would work, so maybe for you too. I have been hunting for used Zegna on ebay, lots of choices but you have to wait, haven't pulled the trigger. Waiting for a good Isaia deal at STP, they have an easy return policy when I find a nice simple charcoal for under 1,000 in my size (46/56 euro). Keep trying stuff on. I bought a few regent cuts from Best Buy and some look better than others, depends on how well the tailor did the waist suppression, but still not really satisfied with the fit. Bought a Benjiman Lucente from eHaberdasher and it didn't fit across the chest, but I tried to alter it and now I have a very nice, expensive suit (after hundreds in alterations costs) that I can't wear. It is fully canvassed though, and the tailor said I got a bargain. Too bad it doesn't fit. Try on lots of suits!


----------



## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

I certainly would never bother with anything from Banana Republic, it's just version of Gap with double the price tag, and NOT double the quality. Made in China mostly.

I would certainly concur with what Jovan posted with... 'Most "high end designer suits" are utter garbage. You're paying for the name with Gucci, Versace, and Dolce & Gabbana, not quality construction.'... again mostly made here in China. Probably in the same sweatshops which produce all the fakes.


----------



## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

Jovan, et al.,

Guess the bottom line is that - _drat it all_ - I'll be forced to start wearing clothes that are both well made and cut to fit the shape of my body. And if I simply _must_ support my own countrymen by wearing Samuelsohn, then, well... _quel dommage!_

Thanks for all the tips, and for pointing me in the right direction. In all honesty, until.. today... I always thought clothes were simply a PITA. Quite literally, from the ground up nothing has ever fitted me properly. Only in my mid-30's did I even learn that my feet are wider than normal. (That would explain my little toes working their way through my Sperry's all through university). I also thought it was normal for dress shirts to billow out over the waist of my pants and for jeans to either be too short or to crumple up over my boots.

In short... wow.

But as they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And as I sit here an ponder, I have an idea for my first "sartorial" excursion. I'll be taking the day off tomorrow to go and explore. And just for kicks, I'll keep you all posted on my "progress."

In theory, I have a good plan...


----------



## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

J. Marko,

Thanks for the specific reply and info. Good to know I'm not the _only_ one who can _only_ fit into expensive Italian jackets... Guess that's the price we pay for being _"strong like bull... smart like tractor..."_


----------



## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

David_E said:


> theFancyMan: I was totally unaware that BR jackets suits might be canvased! I just assumed they were fused. That might explain why their prices seemed so disproportionately high. I definatly second the never buy anything at full price from BR idea. I forgot to mention that too... They go a little bit the way of JAB - there are frequent deep discount sales, and if you get the BR card you get even more options and gift cards.


Yeah I didn't realize this either until recently when I read it on their website right here: https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/category.do?cid=55191. I checked my jackets and low and behold they were canvassed!

Also, I do agree in part with Jovan that for the most part you are paying for the name in designer brands however that statement is more of an overgeneralization. Gucci for instance has their suits made by Ermenegildo Zegna and are fully canvassed with considerable hand-tailoring and from what I remember Gianni Versace Couture are also made by Zegna. I don't know about Dolce & Gabbana though.


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

thefancyman said:


> Yeah I didn't realize this either until recently when I read it on their website right here: https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/category.do?cid=55191. I checked my jackets and low and behold they were canvassed!


Note that they only claim to "have a layer of canvas." My $80 Lands' End boys' seersucker jacket has a layer of horsehair canvas, but it's still a fused jacket.


----------



## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

In Canada there is or was a MTM firm called "Copley". In the states a mens store which I used had there MTM suits done there. As far as I know they only work through good retail stores. You might do some research on them. Any suits I had made were very good.


----------



## coynedj (Jun 1, 2008)

I've said this on other threads before so forgive me if I'm repeating myself, but with a bit of patience you can be superbly outfitted shopping at thrift stores. For instance, I bought a navy Ermenegildo Zegna jacket last week for $6.99, in excellent condition (I also bought a Brioni tie for $4.49). I have noticed that the people pricing items at thrift stores are quite familiar with the lower grade brands such as BR and J Crew, and price them higher than the brands they're unfamiliar with. Which means that Zegna, Brioni, Canali and the like can be found at insanely low prices, though they aren't found with great frequency. I drive past a thrift store on the way home from work, so I stop by almost weekly and have scored a surprising number of superb items for a pittance. If you have any good thrift stores in Vancouver, you might be surprised what you can find.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

What amplifiedheat said. The terms "canvassed," "fully canvased," etc., are all terms that can very easily be misapplied by ignorant or unscrupulous vendors. At the prices listed, it's somewhat unlikely that they mean an unfused stitched canvas.


----------



## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> What amplifiedheat said. The terms "canvassed," "fully canvased," etc., are all terms that can very easily be misapplied by ignorant or unscrupulous vendors. At the prices listed, it's somewhat unlikely that they mean an unfused stitched canvas.


Yes, amplifiedheat is probably right but I was still pleasantly surprised.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

You were pleasantly surprised that they used the word "canvas," even though that doesn't mean anything other than that there is some thicker piece of material behind the suit fabric? Except for _totally _unstructured jackets, all of them have some "canvas." A garment is usually not fused with a hot glue gun. Instead, a piece of - yep, you guessed it - _canvas_ that is impregnated with heat-sensitive glue is laid between the two pieces to be fused. Here's a picture of some canvas that also a fuse-glue delivery system:

Now, if Banana Republic glues their suits together using something like this, I don't see how that's a selling point. Except, of course, that the word "canvas" is often read to exclude the possibility of glued construction.


----------



## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

The answer to the OP's question would be yes, they're only for kids. By the time one is 40, he shouldn't even think about J.Crew and BR. Not only they are of inferior quality, they're over priced too. A J.Crew highly fused suit costs about $650; You can get a BB 1818 half-canvassed suit for $500 twice a year, when they're on sale.


----------



## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> You were pleasantly surprised that they used the word "canvas," even though that doesn't mean anything other than that there is some thicker piece of material behind the suit fabric?


No. I was pleasantly surprised that I felt a chest piece between the shell and the lining after I read on the BR website that whoever manufactures their suits employs canvas construction. I can't without a shadow of a doubt prove that the jacket has a canvas chest piece stitched to the fabric but I did believe it is half-canvassed construction.


----------



## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Another affirmative answer. I bought some pants on sale for $50 + 25% off. At that price... well, as long as they last two years, I win. If not...

I do wear their t-shirts though. But I think thats all I have from BR/JC. Light weight khakis for the summer too.

IMHO. Your 40. You have a decent income, I think your thinking about suits all wrong. All you need is two suits. One grey, one blue. And you can splurge on them. IMO, your supposed to. By splurge, I mean get one made for your body. If MTM is what your comfortable with, then go that route. Suits are supposed to last a while, they're not expendable like t-shirts. We're supposed to care for them and make them last years. But thats just my opinion.


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Leighton said:


> IMHO. Your 40. You have a decent income, I think your thinking about suits all wrong. All you need is two suits. One grey, one blue. And you can splurge on them. IMO, your supposed to. By splurge, I mean get one made for your body.


There's a lot to be said for this. Peter Mayle once wrote about buying his first bespoke suit "before I could really afford it," and never regretting the purchase.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

What Leighton said. You really can survive with just those two, though if you become more of a "sartorialist" like many of us, you may explore three piece suits, double breasteds, pinstripes, glen plaid, etc.



AskDandy said:


> Jovan, et al.,
> 
> Guess the bottom line is that - _drat it all_ - I'll be forced to start wearing clothes that are both well made and cut to fit the shape of my body. And if I simply _must_ support my own countrymen by wearing Samuelsohn, then, well... _quel dommage!_
> 
> ...


Like many things, clothing is not hard to "get" as so many guys think. You just need the knowledge and some experience. It only gets better from there. I've learned things in five years that some of the 60+ associates working in menswear stores haven't learned in their whole life!

I used to think the knowledge would damn me forever. As long as you know what you are getting and can accept the price you paid for it -- and best of all, are HAPPY with it -- that's all that really matters.

I hope your excursion goes well. You may try getting some MTM shirts while you're at it. Lord knows I wish I had the disposable income to. Good luck.



thefancyman said:


> Yeah I didn't realize this either until recently when I read it on their website right here: https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/category.do?cid=55191. I checked my jackets and low and behold they were canvassed!
> 
> Also, I do agree in part with Jovan that for the most part you are paying for the name in designer brands however that statement is more of an overgeneralization. Gucci for instance has their suits made by Ermenegildo Zegna and are fully canvassed with considerable hand-tailoring and from what I remember Gianni Versace Couture are also made by Zegna. I don't know about Dolce & Gabbana though.


That may be so, but I don't think they're Zegna's best quality level either. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Much of the price is also from adding the name to a Zegna suit. You may as well buy from them to begin with!

The canvas chest piece you found means nothing and doesn't make the suit "canvassed" in the way most of us think on this forum, let alone "_fully_ canvassed."



coynedj said:


> I've said this on other threads before so forgive me if I'm repeating myself, but with a bit of patience you can be superbly outfitted shopping at thrift stores. For instance, I bought a navy Ermenegildo Zegna jacket last week for $6.99, in excellent condition (I also bought a Brioni tie for $4.49). I have noticed that the people pricing items at thrift stores are quite familiar with the lower grade brands such as BR and J Crew, and price them higher than the brands they're unfamiliar with. Which means that Zegna, Brioni, Canali and the like can be found at insanely low prices, though they aren't found with great frequency. I drive past a thrift store on the way home from work, so I stop by almost weekly and have scored a surprising number of superb items for a pittance. If you have any good thrift stores in Vancouver, you might be surprised what you can find.


Yes, but you forget that he is hard to fit. Finding thrift store or eBay items that fit him besides accessories is going to be a tall order... unless some guy just happened to have a MTM or bespoke made in his same measurements way back when. Hell, I have a bad enough time thrifting for 40 longs.



CuffDaddy said:


> What amplifiedheat said. The terms "canvassed," "fully canvased," etc., are all terms that can very easily be misapplied by ignorant or unscrupulous vendors. At the prices listed, it's somewhat unlikely that they mean an unfused stitched canvas.


I used to be confused about this too. Let me summarise and make it abundantly clear for any newer people here: *Just about any structured coat, regardless of the price, has a chest piece.* It's as standard as shirts having buttons in the front. This is why you need to feel the front quarters below the buttons for a middle layer rather than the chest. I just confirmed this now by comparing my lower end "LAUREN Ralph Lauren" suit (clearly fused, only has two layers) with a high end ready to wear from the '50s and high end MTM from the '80s (both had three distinct layers).

What disturbs me is that companies like J. Crew, Banana Republic, and Charles Tyrwhitt are trying to mislead people who have just learned about bespoke with their working buttonholes (a BAD idea off the rack) and carefully manipulating the description to make it sound non-fused. "There's a sucker born every minute." I know I've made a few mistakes along the way, but I'd rather not other people have to experience it as well.


----------



## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

Alight, gents, so here's my update.

Based on your good advice, I've found a reputable tailor to make a simple, white dress shirt for me. Nothing fancy. More as a test than anything else. If I'm happy with the final product I'll return to be measured for a suit, probably Samuelsohn. I like what I've been reading about them, and also like supporting a Canadian company (sorry, cousins down south). If all goes well, I'll do the same again, choosing navy to add to the charcoal. The same tailor's also busy altering a few of my existing shirts and pants to make them more presentable. My goal is to slowly build a "quality" wardrobe for myself. Luckily, I've had good fortune at Christmas and birthdays and already have a number of nice ties from Zegna and Armani, so I'm already a step ahead.

And meanwhile, for my immediate needs, I simply raided the big department store in town and stocked up on seasonal, "disposable" clothes all from the same "designer" line (think Perry Ellis, Calvin Klein). Sure, it was a waste of money in some regards, but at least everything matches... and I'll look somewhat current for a change... and it's a definite improvement over what I've been wearing lately... and I can easily dump the whole line at a consignment shop next season... and... the whole shebang cost less than a couple of suits from Banana Republic would have.

So, I feel like I'm now on the road to dressing better. And if I make a detour or two on the way... so be it. Tacky tourist traps are just part of the fun, no?

Thanks again for all the good advice. I'm sure I'll be popping back in again.


----------



## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

Jovan said:


> That may be so, but I don't think they're Zegna's best quality level either. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Much of the price is also from adding the name to a Zegna suit. You may as well buy from them to begin with!
> 
> The canvas chest piece you found means nothing and doesn't make the suit "canvassed" in the way most of us think on this forum, let alone "_fully_ canvassed."


Gucci suits I would place around the standard mainline much better than Z Zegna but of course no where near Zegna Couture. I think someone would buy a Gucci suit over a Zegna because of design. I would imagine that with Gucci you are getting different design elements, fabrics and cut that you couldn't find with a Zegna designed garment such as those that were designed by Tom Ford before his departure. The price difference is actually much less than you would imagine, Gucci suits sell for around $2050 which I believe is inline with mainline Zegna so I suppose the consumer would choose based of what appeals to them. The same principal might apply to BB since you can get a half-canvassed Southwick suit from an independent retailer for about the same price as BB 1818 but you won't be able to get it in the Regent or Fitzgerald cut.

I wouldn't say that what I perceived to be a canvas chest piece means nothing I could very well be right and it is canvassed but on the same token I could very well be mistaken. Also, neither I or BR stated their suits were fully canvassed so I'm not sure who that quote came from and none of their suits offer the option to have working button holes but it is true that J. Crew and CT offer that option.


----------

