# Pulling off loose threads terminology!



## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

As you know (or maybe don't) I get tons of questions sent to me privately by e-mail. Folks who don't want to post or just want to ask me clothing questions. Hey, it is "Ask Andy" after all.

Anyway, I got this question from a lady and am looking for help in answering it:
_Do do you know the word for trimming threads from a military uniform? I am referring to the removing of loose threads...a fellow I knew said it was called....? but, I can't remember what it was. 
_
_I wonder about it everytime I go over my own clothing to remove loose little ends that look tacky and un-uniform-ish._

_Just an FYI: My Daddy was a Pearl Harbor survivor (USMC), my brother a Vietnam veteran (USMC), my husband a Vietnam era veteran (USAF), and our son has just reenlisted (USArmy). I'm a very proud daughter, sister, wife and mother. I enjoyed looking through your site!_
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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

My Dad is a retired Naval Aviator and I did a hitch in the Navy as an enlisted man. 

Although not one of them I've spent some time around Marines. The act of removing the loose threads from clothing is called removing the "Irish Penance."

We did the same thing in the Navy but it wasn't called that. (Funny remembering the Irish Penance thing but being unable to recall what, if anything we called it in the Navy)

There's more than one way to do it too. I'd say most guys just go with the standard sharp tipped scissors but some will burn the little threads with a match. They're claim is that it gets the thread further back than it can be cut.


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## gardel (Jul 23, 2008)

Irish pennants.

I grew up the son of a Marine and, trust me, I always scan myself in the mirror looking for those things before I leave the house. :icon_smile_big:


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## mikevienna (Aug 10, 2008)

Would agree with the previous post, I served in the Royal Australian Navy and we also called them "Irish pennants"


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

gardel said:


> Irish pennants.
> 
> I grew up the son of a Marine and, trust me, I always scan myself in the mirror looking for those things before I leave the house. :icon_smile_big:


24 year U.S. Marine. The loose thread is called an Irish Pennant (IP). The removing of the pennant is called 'Squarring oneself away".


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

You gentlemen are great and right as always! (plus you just saved me):
*Marine Corps Dictionary:* Irish Pennant 

A string hanging randomly from a Marine's uniform. Longer ones are sometimes called rappelling ropes or cables. A squared away Marine will be free of Irish pennants, particularly at an inspection. 

The term "Irish pennant" derives from the Royal Navy during the time of sailing ships. It was a loose or untidy end of a line. In Navy and Marine Corps parlance today, an Irish pennant is a loose thread on a uniform, for which you get gigged at inspection.

Irish pennant (_plural_ Irish pennants)

(British) (nautical) A loose or untidy end of a line or other part of the rigging of a sailing ship

(US) A loose thread of a Naval or Marine uniform; also the loose end of any knot not tied properly
I'm wondering if there is (but couldn't find it) a history in the origin of something anti-Irish!


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

Andy said:


> I'm wondering if there is (but couldn't find it) a history in the origin of something anti-Irish!


Andy,

Brilliant question! One I would like to know too...I just asked the question on another forum and will provide the answer when I receive one.

CMacey


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## mikevienna (Aug 10, 2008)

I believe it originated in the Royal Navy - in recruit school I once asked my Chief - didn't get an answer but did get a great work out at high port arms. :crazy: Moral of the story, never ask your chief instructor a question he doesn't know the answer to :teacha:


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

mikevienna said:


> I believe it originated in the Royal Navy - in recruit school I once asked my Chief - didn't get an answer but did get a great work out at high port arms. :crazy: Moral of the story, never ask your chief instructor a question he doesn't know the answer to :teacha:


Quoted for posterity.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

mikevienna said:


> I believe it originated in the Royal Navy - in recruit school I once asked my Chief - didn't get an answer but did get a great work out at high port arms. :crazy: Moral of the story, never ask your chief instructor a question he doesn't know the answer to :teacha:


Good thing this doesn't apply to Ask Andy!! :icon_smile_big:


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## Pitt 84 (Feb 22, 2009)

*Ragtag folk...*

Andy:

Irish Pennants it is & squaring oneself away was the act of removing them...part of squaring away was checking the gigg line, ensuring one's shirt placket, belt buckel, & fly were all in an orderly neat line & centered...remember, when the advisory "put some corners on it" alerted you to the fact you weren't quite squared away

I believe the term Irish Pennat or IP came from the fact that the Irish were rather downtrodden and all their clothing was rather worn & frayed...I think it was a derogatory Royal Navy term that has migrated to all English speaking Armed Services...

Be seeing you!
Pitt 84


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Pitt 84 said:


> Andy:
> .....I believe the term Irish Pennat or IP came from the fact that the Irish were rather downtrodden and all their clothing was rather worn & frayed...I think it was a derogatory Royal Navy term that has migrated to all English speaking Armed Services...
> 
> Be seeing you!
> Pitt 84


While what Pitt 84 says may very well be the case, it seems to me that, while we referred to the removal process as "squaring away the uniform, the USAF did had a different term to describe the loose threads (Irish pennants is a term, new to my ears/eyes!). However, for the life of me, I can't recall what the term we used was...and it's driving me nuts eek. Thanks Andy! Any former Air Force types out there who might know what we called those loose threads (so that I might be able to sleep tonight)?


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## Pitt 84 (Feb 22, 2009)

*What is an Air Force IP...*



eagle2250 said:


> While what Pitt 84 says may very well be the case, it seems to me that, while we referred to the removal process as "squaring away the uniform, the USAF did had a different term to describe the loose threads (Irish pennants is a term, new to my ears/eyes!). However, for the life of me, I can't recall what the term we used was...and it's driving me nuts eek. Thanks Andy! Any former Air Force types out there who might know what we called those loose threads (so that I might be able to sleep tonight)?


eagle2250:

I do believe the boys in blue refered to them as cables...I remember a pre-inspection checklist AFROTC buddy of mine had & remove all cables was listed twice...also heard them called streamers...

Be seeing you!
Pitt 84


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

Again, I'm just a Marine; but a search of the internet turned up a reference to support the previous author's statement about "cables". Appendix C of the AFROTC (Det 665) Cadet Handbook, University of Cincinnati is the source for this.


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## Wizard (Feb 29, 2008)

In the Marines it was removing 'Irish Penants'. I believe that it was because they were little green flags waving in the breeze.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

I seem to recall the stray threads on an Army uniform to have been called "ropes," but "cables" might also have been used. Cables would be more likely for the Navy, though, IMO.

A favorite act by an NCO who was preparing a unit for inspection would be to whip out a lighter and "burn off the ropes" with it. That made a definite impression on the troop who had not taken that care prior to formation. Another poster has also identified that method as preferred to remove stray threads. It removed the visible part of the thread entirely without the risk of unravelling any stitching it might have been attached to by pulling on it.

Maybe that is the terminology sought by the inquiry, although it could vary from service to service, as the variants running through this thread demonstrate.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Pitt 84 said:


> eagle2250:
> 
> I do believe the boys in blue refered to them as cables...I remember a pre-inspection checklist AFROTC buddy of mine had & remove all cables was listed twice...also heard them called streamers...
> 
> ...


That's it...the term we used was cables! Thanks Pitt 84, for restoring my peace of mind. Also, as a former ROTC cadet and subsequently an AFROTC Instructor and Detachment recruiting officer, it was a blast from the past reading through AFROTC Det 665's Cadet Handbook. Thanks for that cmacey!


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## cmacey (May 3, 2009)

Andy said:


> You gentlemen are great and right as always! (plus you just saved me):
> *Marine Corps Dictionary:* Irish Pennant
> 
> A string hanging randomly from a Marine's uniform. Longer ones are sometimes called rappelling ropes or cables. A squared away Marine will be free of Irish pennants, particularly at an inspection.
> ...


Andy,

As promised, I got a return response on another forum that lends more or less to support of your question. Of course, it is not definitive proof; but we can rest well in knowing that its original intent lingers only in the past.

"I am pretty sure the term has more to do with English officers' low opinion of Irish sailors, many of whom were pressed into service. Since the ship's pennant was a point of pride for the crew, calling a stray rope end a 'pennant' has the double effect of describing the Irishmen as unkempt and also yokels who couldn't manage a better flag than that.

If you look at the original British lyrics of 'Yankee Doodle', it's the same sort of thing. Another example is using 'French leave' for going AWOL. I doubt one could trace the term to a particular incident or to a specific ship's log, but the Oxford English Dictionary should list when and where the term first appeared in print. It would have been in common usage for years or decades before, though. I hope this was helpful. Cheers, Michael"


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

cmacey said:


> Andy,
> 
> As promised, I got a return response on another forum that lends more or less to support of your question. Of course, it is not definitive proof; but we can rest well in knowing that its original intent lingers only in the past.
> 
> ...


cmacey:

Good job! Now another update for the Encyclopedia!


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

And I got this thank you to all of you from the lady that proposed the question, but was too shy to post:
Andy! Thank you so much for your reply! I'm impressed with the responses! 

...the fellow that had mentioned this terminology -- called it cabling -- and he was navy! 

Please thank all of these great folks and extend my apology for any loss of sleep...(and now, that my memory has been jogged...i picked up my "pick-i-ness" from my Dad, who burned those little threads off, just like someone mentioned. One just had to be squared away!) and one more thing: never, ever, call a Marine blanket an Army blanket! ​


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