# Beannachtai Lá Fhéile Pádraig!



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Happy Saint Patrick's Day to one and all!

Beannachtai Lá Fhéile Pádraig!
(St. Patrick's Day greetings!)

I will be taking a pint (or 3) in a local pub this evening, aptly named, The Leprechaun, while listening to the Swedes in the band, Paddy Power, offer their version of Irish music.

Slainté mo chairde! 
(cheers friends!)

Séamas
(James)

:aportnoy::icon_cheers::drunken_smilie: :icon_smile_big:


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## Naive. Jr. (Dec 4, 2008)

*No snakes*

Thanks for reminding me. An Irish lady who works for the pharmaceutical industry in Switzerland strongly objected to my judgment about the Roman Catholic Church's influence in Ireland and also informed me that the last High King of Irland - O'Connor? - betrayed his country to the English, but she couldn't tell me if he was under duress.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Naive said:


> Thanks for reminding me. An Irish lady who works for the pharmaceutical industry in Switzerland strongly objected to my judgment about the Roman Catholic Church's influence in Ireland and also informed me that the last High King of Irland - O'Connor? - betrayed his country to the English, but she couldn't tell me if he was under duress.


It was the Chieftain Dermot McMurrough in the late 12th Century and it was to the Normans, King Henry, not the English (Saxon) kings, who reigned earlier. 
McMurrough called in Cambro-Norman knights to assist him with a local war. The rest is history!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Indeed, Happy Saint Paddy's Day to all! :thumbs-up:


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

And a Happy St. Patrick's Day to you all also! Going to see the Chieftains tonight.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

KenR said:


> Going to see the Chieftains tonight.


You lucky bastard! :icon_smile:


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> It was the Chieftain Dermot McMurrough in the late 12th Century and it was to the Normans, King Henry, not the English (Saxon) kings, who reigned earlier.
> McMurrough called in Cambro-Norman knights to assist him with a local war. The rest is history!


He enlisted the help of Richard de Clare, "Strongbow", with Henry II's permission. Strongbow married McMurrough's daughter and McMurrough declared Strongbow his heir, which, under Brehon Law he was entitled to. On McMurrough's death Strongbow became Ri. However, as Henry II was his King, this made Henry II King of Ireland.....


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Chouan said:


> He enlisted the help of Richard de Clare, "Strongbow", with Henry II's permission. Strongbow married McMurrough's daughter and McMurrough declared Strongbow his heir, which, under Brehon Law he was entitled to. On McMurrough's death Strongbow became Ri. However, as Henry II was his King, this made Henry II King of Ireland.....


Exactly, and it was then that the cracks in the Norman facade in Ireland started to appear, with many of the Normans opposing Henry's rule from England and siding with the Irish chieftains. It was then that a famous saying was also minted about the Normans who opposed Henry and
intemarried with Irish nobility, "Hiberniores Hibernicis ipsis" [more Irish than the Irish themselves] commonly attributed to Giraldus Cambrensis

In Strongbow's wake came Theobald FitzWalter, (a real Anglo-Norman as opposed to the Cambro-Normans of the First Wave) to whom Henry granted the title of Chief Butler of All Ireland, he then initially, being Norman, adopted the name Le Botelier, later of course Butler. 
Later the noble title Duke of Ormonde was granted to the Butlers and the rest is history (the Earl and Marquis titles came later). 
James Butler for example, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland at the time, was rumoured to have had a fling with Liz regardless of the fact they were cousins. His father Thomas rumoured to have had a fling with her mum Ann Boleyn. 
Needless to say the Butlers were favourites at court. :icon_smile_wink:

Best Regards
James Butler :icon_smile:
(Séamas de Buitléir)


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Happy St. Patrick's Day, all. We won't be venturing out tonight, but there's some Harp's in the kitchen, a mix of The Chieftans, Van Morrison and the soundtrack from The Brother McMullen on the stereo, and a copy of The Quiet Man for viewing later. All told, not a bad day.


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## Merganser (Mar 17, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Later the noble title Duke of Ormonde was granted to the Butlers and the rest is history (the Earl and Marquis titles came later).
> James Butler for example, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland at the time, was rumoured to have had a fling with Liz regardless of the fact they were cousins. His father Thomas rumoured to have had a fling with her mum Ann Boleyn.
> Needless to say the Butlers were favourites at court. :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> ...


I do hate to argue (okay, that might not be strictly *true*), but the earldom of Ormonde dates to the 1300's, whereas James Butler was made a marquess in the 1640's and a duke in the 1660's. The marquessate & dukedom became extinct not much later, but I think the marquessate was re-created for another relative at some point.

Aha, I looked it up, it was indeed recreated a time or two. Earldom appears dormant now, though.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Just returned from the AOH parade, beautiful day for a parade. My daughter Maggie's first parade and she loved the marching bands. My son was more interested in who was throwing candy. 

Slainté from the Ó Catháins!


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

Wore my shamrock tie and we had green everything for morning tea here at work! I had an orange coffee cup, though :devil:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Merganser said:


> I do hate to argue (okay, that might not be strictly *true*), but the earldom of Ormonde dates to the 1300's, whereas James Butler was made a marquess in the 1640's and a duke in the 1660's. The marquessate & dukedom became extinct not much later, but I think the marquessate was re-created for another relative at some point.


Ok, yea, I see I got the Earl and Duke backwards...hey it's St. Patirck's Day, and I'm working from memory here, so cut me some slack! :icon_smile:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

DougNZ said:


> Wore my shamrock tie and we had green everything for morning tea here at work! I had an orange coffee cup, though :devil:


Bleedin' Proddies celebrating St. Patrick's! :icon_smile_wink:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Merganser said:


> Aha, I looked it up, it was indeed recreated a time or two. Earldom appears dormant now, though.


It might be dormant, but it ain't vacant. I've got it!!! :icon_smile_big:


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Happy St.Patty's Day.


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## Merganser (Mar 17, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> It might be dormant, but it ain't vacant. I've got it!!! :icon_smile_big:


Are you saying you're a dormant sort of fellow? 

I only remembered some of that (I looked up the rest, of course) because I'd done some reading about the Civil Wars period a year or so ago, and Ormonde was a moderately important fellow, especially in the Restoration period.


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## Naive. Jr. (Dec 4, 2008)

*What about that last High King of Irland?*

Now that all of you have celebrated and fully recovered by now, may I ask if I misunderstood my Celtic source who told me O'Connor was the Anglicised name of the last High King Of Ireland? What you answered I understood to be a distinction between two persons bearing quite other names who betrayed Irland to either the Normans or the Saxons - no O'Connor appeared as traitor.


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