# Shoe Care: What is Dubbin?



## LeicaLad (Nov 5, 2006)

Further adventures in shoe care.

I have searched a variety of Bangkok shopping malls and shops in my hunt for proper “leather conditioner”. It’s simply amazing how many displays of really crappy shoe products stop at Kiwi paste as their high end, with mostly instant crap liquid polish. In only a few shops have I found leather cleaner. But I have not found any "leather conditioner."

Finally, at a leather goods showroom, I found a tin of a product called “Dubbin”. The shop girls were terribly cute, fun to chat with and were clueless about the actual product. 

My wife has unearthed a similar can of “Dubbin” purchased from Australia on an earlier trip. The problem? I frankly don’t remember or know if I ever knew exactly what is “Dubbin”. Is this saddle soap? Is it different from saddle soap? Does it qualify as “leather conditioner”?

Do I need to keep searching for proper leather conditioner, or will this do for softening and the general care such conditioner is supposed to do?


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

LeicaLad:

I just tried the Search Function and came up with this list of past discussions of Dubbin:

Sounds like it's a waterproof coating (greasy).

Now tell us more about those Bangkok shop girls!


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

Dubbin is a waxy leather conditioner used for waterproofing. It works great in my experience. For conditioning, try mink oil as well.

See https://www.dubbin.com/


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

*dubbin*

i have used dubbin. it is best for work boots and for rough wear. but it makes the leather rather stiff.

mink oil is what i use on dress shoes. it keeps the leather soft and protects. 
use it sparingly and apply with your finger tips.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

'Dubbin' is a 19th century term often encountered in old cavalry manuals and various equine treatises. As posted above, it was a heavy service dressing for chasing Geronimo or charging russian artillary at Balaclava. The contemporary product linked is far different, but Probably best for more robust uses still. Try it on a small area or scrap leather. If it doesn't work out for you, remember Mr Myagi's counsel " wax on, wax off."


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

Just a word of caution regarding the use of Dubbin or any similar-purpose product (waterproofing) like mink oil or any silicone-based cream: they will almost-certainly _darken the color of the leather _(and also, likely, make it difficult to achieve a good shine over them). Perhaps with clodhoppers or work or outdoor boots this would not be of concern, but it sure would be for me with dress shoes, or even casual shoes.

Regular shoes don't need waterproofing. For cleaning and conditioning leather prior to polishing, I use the products designed for this from Meltonian and Allen-Edmonds. They moisturize, soften, and clean the leather and help to keep it supple. I follow this up with colored cream and end with a wax polish. The latter, particularly if worked into all the seams well, will provide more than enough protection against the elements.

_Edit:_ So, bottom line: If you want to clean and condition, don't use Dubbin. Find a product designed for that. There are lots out there. I've noted two. There's also Lexol. Lexol bottles warn about possible leather darkening, but I've never found this to happen with its use.


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## ice (Sep 2, 2005)

LeicaLad said:


> Further adventures in shoe care.
> 
> I have searched a variety of Bangkok shopping malls and shops in my hunt for proper "leather conditioner". It's simply amazing how many displays of really crappy shoe products stop at Kiwi paste as their high end, with mostly instant crap liquid polish. In only a few shops have I found leather cleaner. But I have not found any "leather conditioner."


Don't knock Kiwi brand products! When I was in the army that is all we ever used.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

Yeah, Kiwi's are the Toyotas of the shoe shine industry- very prevalent and very reliable. I have no complaints with Kiwi shoe polishes.


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## LeicaLad (Nov 5, 2006)

Hmmm. As I posted this question, I suddenly realized that I had not done due diligence in my own search on Dubbin. Thus, I offer my Mea Culpa. Still, I really appreciate the judgment calls on use of the stuff, as well as the sources for further learning. Thank you.

It appears I need to answer a few other details, too. First, I certainly don’t diss Kiwi products. I like them. All I meant was that the higher end Kiwi products, including their own leather conditioner, haven’t been found. I find their good paste wax and lots of their low-end smear-on liquid, and almost nothing else. That’s all I meant. Given the general taste in shoes in Bangkok, there doesn’t seem to be call for much else: more on that momentarily.

For Andy: “Now tell us more about those Bangkok shop girls!”

My, my. Where to begin? Let’s leave aside any reference to the entertainment sector, and stick to nice girls from good families. Thailand, and the shops, are filled with them. Even the most clueless Thai shop girl can leave you grinning and happy to have met them. They’re really sweet. 

It begins with several basic observations/generalizations: 1) The Thai are an attractive people, light in bone structure, lithe and of delicate features; 2) Thais consider gracious hospitality to be their natural born gift that is honed throughout their lives and supported by formal campaigns to the same end; 3) Thais have a certain cultural arrogance regarding these talents that we must excuse simply because they are so good at it.

An anecdote: I got into a large corporate elevator, followed by a small army of corporate girls, all in their early 20’s. I discovered I was the only man in an elevator on a long ride up a tall tower. The girls entered into a robust discussion regarding me: some finding me cute, charming, even handsome, and some settling for deciding I looked like a nice guy. Keeping a straight face to not let on I understood, I said nothing. I was to get out just one floor below them. As the elevator neared my floor, I turned and thanked the girls for their kindnesses, particularly thanking those that found me to be so handsome. An eruption of giggles and laughter followed, and, as the door opened, they all waved to me with lots of teasing about how I should have said something sooner. It was sweet, not lewd.

The point is that it’s been a few years since I was a handsome dog to be noted by young women, and I guarantee that inside any elevator in the US or Europe I am utterly and completely invisible. My clothes might (or might not) get noticed, but I sure don’t. In general, it can be said that Asia is good to men, and Thai women can be the most gracious of them all. It is BOTH nurture AND nature.

Now: regarding shoes. I have a blood-brother figure that has been a pal for 20 something years. He is Thai-Chinese and very wealthy. He dresses elegantly and has great taste in fine ties. But shoes are invariably loafers. 

Why? Well, again several observations/generalizations: 1) In Thailand, the feet are the lowest part of the human soul (no pun useful here). If you cross your legs and point your foot at someone (or an altar), you’ve caused huge offense. Calling attention to the feet, even to fine shoes, is rude, crude or crass; 2) Thailand is a shoes-off culture. Not only homes and temples, but many offices have shoes piled/shelved at the doorway. Many business deals are concluded in stocking feet; 3) One enters and leaves private spaces as elegantly as possible. This does not allow for bending over/sitting/squatting to tie shoes. If your host is seeing you out, you would be bending down/lowering yourself in front of him. Not good. Not done. Elegance requires slip-ons. No one looks down. Thus, shoes are nice but should not draw attention and should require zero effort to remove or step into.

Exceptions exist, of course. But, these are my observations for the evening. Strictly for entertainment purposes, only. I offer this in return for my lack of due diligence on Dubbin. NOW, if I could only find some proper conditioner. I may just end up buying off the Internet (but my batting average is below 50%, so I had held out hopes for local procurement, but that’s another story). Sigh.

Happy New Year.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

I used to use dubbin on the soles of all my shoes, but only the soles. They will blacken anything, including rugs. Dubbin has a long history as a military waterproofing goop, but was used on field boots, not parade boots. I would never, ever use it on the uppers of good shoes. The only uppers I use it on are my old steel-toed work boots. I have also never had a prob with drying out leather.

Anyway, these days I just get rubber glued on the bottoms of my good shoes and forget waterproofing.


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## LeicaLad (Nov 5, 2006)

Oh. And I forgot to add that I bought that extra tin of Dubbin, simply because those girls were soooo cute! 

Yet another purchase to go into another drawer of stuff to be found in some distant future. I'm a future archeologist's dream.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

LeicaLad said:


> ...For Andy: "Now tell us more about those Bangkok shop girls!"


Andy's tastes surface again...we should all pitch in and buy him a pair of those trousers that O'Connell's sell...I refer, of course, to the classic ...


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*mink oil*

I would suggest caution with regards to mink oil. When I sold mountaineering gear in the mid 1970's mink oil was reputed to rot the stitiching of boots. Daiber's Sno-Seal (It came in a blue can with a snow flake printed on it.) or other wax products were at that time the recommended waterproofing agents.

Nik-wax and other modern water proofing and conditioning products have supplanted Sno-Seal. But I would not use them on good shoes. An earlier post mentioned shoe cream followed by wax. As it might rain again this winter here in Southern California, I will be sure to include a light waxing in my polishing routine for the next couple of months.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## going grey (May 22, 2006)

*kiwi vs cherry blossom*

a relative in the army reminded me that at Sandhurst ,Cherry Blossom polish wasn't allowed.as it wouldn't "bull"...or was it kiwi that was banned..any ex military folks out there to clarify this one ?


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## english_gent (Dec 28, 2006)

aaahh dubbin , takes me back to my school days when i had to dubbin my football boots before a kick around in the mud.

foul stuff but effective.


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## des merrion (Oct 1, 2006)

Dubbin is ok for shoes, but, it picks up dirt and grit like mad as it resembles ' grease ' in thickness.
Correct, cherry blossom polish was never used for bulling boots, kiwi is the best.

www.desmerrionbespoketailor.com


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## pcunite (Nov 20, 2006)

I only hope to offer advice from the research I have done.

Mink oil and the like are fine if your shoes are exposed to wet conditions often and the damage from the mink oil will be less than the water. For fine dress shoes you should be using something like _leatherique_ or Allen Edmonds leather conditioner.

.


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## english_gent (Dec 28, 2006)

des merrion said:


> Dubbin is ok for shoes, but, it picks up dirt and grit like mad as it resembles ' grease ' in thickness.
> Correct, cherry blossom polish was never used for bulling boots, kiwi is the best.
> 
> www.desmerrionbespoketailor.com


i had the good fortune of my father and older brother being in the army , so i was taught how to 'bull up' a pair of shoes till they shine.

spit n polish .... if you effed up your boots or shoes for a parade/inspection you were 'beasted' so they had to be bang on! :icon_smile_big:


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