# The "N" Word



## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

I heard a movie review for the 50 Cent movie _Get Rich Or Die Tryin' _ that was given by Michael Medved who is a movie critic as well as a popular talk show host. He gave the movie one star for violence, adult situations and repeated use of the "N" word. If the "N" word is so bad, why is it used by so many urban blacks in their music and speech? I often heard that the mere sound of the word brought to mind images of slavery and oppression. Why, then, do some blacks continue to use this word? Why wasn't the NAACP, the ADL, ACLU, Jesse Hijackson and Al Sharptongue and other groups advocating a picket outside the theaters or arranging apologies from the directors/actors of this film for using such a derrogatory word?

A girl told me recently that only blacks can say that word and no one else. I told her she was crazy! Why should ANYONE want to use that word??? It's baffling to say the least! If a white person uses the word, they're racist. If a black uses the word, it's his/her upbringing. A term of endearment.

Remember what happened to the white guy, David Howard, at Howard University that used the word "niggardly" (miserly) in a privately held staff meeting? He was asked to resign his post because they thought it was a racial slur! The idiot stepped down instead of pointing out that those pointing the finger at him for being a racist didn't even know what the word meant! So, there you see the double standard! Why is that? The guy didn't even say the "N" word but merely said a word that was close phonetically but not by definition. Crazy! What say you?


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

It's funny you mention the Howard incident. I had forgotten the specifics, but I remember a newsreader at the time said that the man had spoken 'an "n" word that sounds like an even worse "n" word'. They didn't wish to be accused of racism themselves! Sigh.


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

Funny indeed!  What I'd like to know is how so many at the _University_ didn't know the meaning of the word!!!


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> 
> Funny indeed!  What I'd like to know is how so many at the _University_ didn't know the meaning of the word!!!


 'University'? Which reminds me...though I forget the author: 'There are two universities in England,. four in France, ten in Prussia, and thirty-seven in Ohio'.


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

What a pearl of wisdom! I will tuck this away. Thanks!

----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> 
> A girl told me recently that only blacks can say that word and no one else. I told her she was crazy! Why should ANYONE want to use that word??? It's baffling to say the least! If a white person uses the word, they're racist. If a black uses the word, it's his/her upbringing. A term of endearment. What say you?


 I do find it interesting that the African American "community" has, upon gaining ownership of this pejorative, decided to expand its use rather than placing it into retirement as other groups so desire.

While it's common for groups to use "their" pejorative among themselves, it's quite unique for a group to use it so extensively in colloquial speech as well as popular song.

That said, I respect the right of any group to control the use of its pejorative and I would find it distasteful to infringe on that right. All groups in America have earned this right, none more than African Americans.


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

> quote:Originally posted by Tomasso
> That said, I respect the right of any group to control the use of its pejorative and I would find it distasteful to infringe on that right. All groups in America have earned this right, none more than African Americans.


African-American? As a French-German-Irish-Dutch, I would have to disagree with the latter part of your comment and in that being exclusionary at any level shows unfairness, n'est ce pas?

----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I am discerning a pattern of threads for LS400. The "N" word? Illegal aliens? Ebonics? I leave it to the interested reader to decide.

Warmest regards


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

> quote:Originally posted by Wayfarer
> I am discerning a pattern of threads for LS400. The "N" word? Illegal aliens? Ebonics? I leave it to the interested reader to decide.
> 
> Warmest regards


Are you insinuating that I have common sense? I hope this is where you were going with this!

Can you defend Ebonics? Can you defend the use of the "N" word? Can you defend illegal entry into our country? If so, Wayfarer, please indulge us!

By the way, did you read my post about my four favorite black authors where I called them my heroes? Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Ken Hamblin and Rev. Jesse Peterson were named. All black. Did you read that? Did you read the post where I said my mother was an immigrant to the US? Also, I supposed you overlooked the post where I said two of my friends are Muslim....one from Jordan and one from Iran.....Do you see a pattern here of people not reading posts in their entirety and jumping to conclusions, Wayfarer??? If you are insinuating that I am racist in any way, I think I'm owed an apology. But I'm sure I won't get it!

----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

Wayfarer : Please read _Plain Talk and Common Sense_ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0684807564/002-4674566-5464025?v=glance&n=283155by Ken Hamblin. One of my fave authors---who is black---shall I have to keep stressing this for you? Please call him a racist for saying the same things. He would get a kick out of that! Also, please contact Walter Williams, Rev. Jesse Peterson, and Thomas Sowell and tell them that they are racist and that you know what's best for everyone. And then get back to me with their replies.

Anxiously awaiting an apology or a reply....

----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

Still no reply or apology from Wayfarer. Gone like the wind. I guess when confronted with facts he fades like a vampire in the sunlight. Which is to be expected when one spouts off without knowing the facts, I suppose!

----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I think 'retiring' symbols and words is at best in itself a defeat. My reproduction 1880s saddle is borderstamped in swastikas. I have had no end of upset people look at it and get educated about that most ancient and universal symbol.Just because some psycho failed artist stole it should not condemn it forever. Certainly nazi era artifacts will be very sensitive manifestations. But I won't deface a red one placed millenia ago on the Grand Canyon muletrail at an upset tourist's suggestion. One of the greatest compliments I received was being called the big N by my shipmate JoJo. It can be a very not so subtle put down on black men who are displaying many behaviors stereotypic of the prejudiced view of non blacks. You can bury symbols and language only at peril of letting hatreds remanifest in not so subtle forms of discrimination. Humor in an ethnic joke finds it's greatest laughter in the ethnicity being razzed. It doesn't take a lace curtain, shanty irish mick to figure this out.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

So wait, what's the point of this thread, do you want black people to stop using the word, or do you want white people to start using it more frequently?

Hehe, by the way, one of the most frequently used words in combination with the "n word" is "please". 

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

I was wondering where you were! No, the point of this thread was to show the double standard and how whites were reprimanded for even getting _close_ to the word yet some blacks use it all the time and no one comes down on them. Bottom line...if it's a bad word, it shouldn't be said by _anyone!_ Wouldn't you agree?

----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Kav_
> It doesn't take a *lace curtain, shanty* irish mick to figure this out.


Make up your mind, are you a lace curtain mick or a shanty mick, of course I'm Irish so I can say "mick".


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> 
> I was wondering where you were! No, the point of this thread was to show the double standard and how whites were reprimanded for even getting _close_ to the word yet some blacks use it all the time and no one comes down on them. Bottom line...if it's a bad word, it shouldn't be said by _anyone!_ Wouldn't you agree?
> 
> ----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


Hmm, well, it doesn't really bother me that black people use it so much and while I support the right of any white person to say or use any word they want, they should be ready to accept the consequences of using that word (whether it is resigning from your job or getting a whuppin' - though, I don't think people should get fired for saying it). In fact, I kind of think that if people used it more that it wouldn't be a big deal anymore. I don't know.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Here's an interesting explanation by Charles Taylor:



> quote:
> 
> Whites mostly use "n!gger" as either a racist epithet or when describing racist attitudes. We can't use it in all ways that black people can, as the sort of insult people make against their own (in "Ali," Giancarlo Esposito, playing Cassius Clay, Sr., refers to the Nation of Islam as a bunch of "bowtie-wearin', Arab-talkin' n!ggers"), as an expression of affection, as a joshing taunt, as a subversive appropriation of a word that still retains its power to wound. (Kennedy recalls Tupac Shakur's telling him that "*****" stood for "Never Ignorant, Gets Goals Accomplished.")


EDIT: Edited to override automatic censorship. 

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

African-American??? So could a white guy born in south Africa use "the N word"? I mean if he lives in America, but was born in South Africa, he's technically African American, and should by their own logic be able to use the word...

I'm sorry, but I'm so sick of the racial double standard...it seems to me that if one wants to preach real equality, they'd be considered racist by the standards of most minorities...I dunno, in light of the recent mess with the illegal immigrants here in America, I've become very angry at many of my own people (Hispanics) for not only acting as a catalist for racism, but also making us as a people look like ingrateful needies...

The fact of the matter is that racism is a terrible thing, no matter whom the victim, but until we realize that equality means that certain people dont get a "pass" for their bad behavior just because of their skin color, we will never truly be able to abolish racism...if the blacks were really so worried about being treated fairly, they wouldnt run around using such a terrible word, regardless of what the intended meaning is...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by The Gabba Goul_
> 
> African-American??? So could a white guy born in south Africa use "the N word"? I mean if he lives in America, but was born in South Africa, he's technically African American, and should by their own logic be able to use the word...
> 
> ...


If anything it's universal double standard. I've heard with my own ears Italians call each other ****, Hispanics call each other ****, poor white people call each other white trash and Irish people call each other Mick I don't think for one second I could go to Bensonhurst and call someone a ***. I honestly don't see why LS400 or anyone would be interested in using the word regardless if Blacks use it or not.
I don't understand your South African example. I'm sure you are aware that in the U.S African American is a reference to race, not ethnicity, interchangeable with Black . This South African you speak of would be considered White in America.

LS400, why does every topic you post revolve around a racially divisive issue? Not judging, simply asking.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jpeirpont_
> 
> I don't understand your South African example. I'm sure you are aware that in the U.S African American is a reference to race, not ethnicity, interchangeable with Black . This South African you speak of would be considered White in America.


I'm merely pointing out that the title "African-American" being interchangable with black is inacurate...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by The Gabba Goul_
> 
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> 
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Personally, I don't use the term African American. But, it's accuracy is debatable. White Africans aren't indigenous to Africa and usually identify with their European roots for example Boers in South Africa.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

It's possible to sidestep the entire question by being universally polite.

Rude is rude. I'm not going to sit around constructing grand theories about it.

If you're about to be impaled on the horns of a dilemma, throw sand in the bull's eyes (and get the hell out of the way).


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> 
> Remember what happened to the white guy, David Howard, at Howard University that used the word "niggardly" (miserly) in a privately held staff meeting? He was asked to resign his post because they thought it was a racial slur! The idiot stepped down instead of pointing out that those pointing the finger at him for being a racist didn't even know what the word meant! So, there you see the double standard! Why is that? The guy didn't even say the "N" word but merely said a word that was close phonetically but not by definition. Crazy! What say you?


I seem to remember that the reasoning was that it didn't matter whether the word was etymologically distinct - the point was it caused offense to (some) Afro-Americans. One should not cause offense, however unschooled the victim may be - in fact especially if the victim is unschooled. When used by Afro-Americans the term (apparently) does _not _ actually cause offense to other Afro-Americans. The energy expended on such a trivial case might have been better used elsewhere - still, it was a good story.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

And here I thought the dreaded "N" word was Neo-Con! I learn something new every day. Actually didn't some Harvard prof write a book on the subject a few years ago?

Karl


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

I say if Black America wants to use the "N" word in their vocabulary that is their perogative. Slang and or derogatory in nature, they have adopted it and in their mind made it positive. More power to them.

As an Italian, I can remember times my father and other friends would refer to each other as *** or Guinea in a joking manner. These words don't offend me or my heritage. Maybe for others it does and they have that right.

What ever slang words "we" use among our peer groups that we might find acceptable, there will always be other groups who take offense. We can't change to make everyone else happy. At the same time, we have to be mindful of when and to whom we "use" these slang words.

Paul

_Deny Guilt, Demand Proof and Never Speak Without an Attorney!_​


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

> quote:Originally posted by jpierpont
> LS400, why does every topic you post revolve around a racially divisive issue? Not judging, simply asking.


(Sigh) Typical....Please put on some glasses before coming to your computer. PLEASE! Every topic? Favorite Music. Hermes Ties. Favorite Cigars. Ralph Lauren "Marseille" Style Shirts. These are my other posts within 24 hours or so. Which one of these are involved with race? Please tell me? Please reply. I'm sure you will have some sick, twisted way to intermingle race in there somewhere.

Also, people can look at things differently. I look at posting these topics as stimulating a discussion. An argument. A point of view. Should we all hold hands and sing Kumbaya on these issues? I don't want anyone to agree with me. If they do, fine. If they don't fine as well. I am just saying that to some people, common sense is just lost. Just look at your observation! "...every topic you post revolve around a racially divisive issue?" Marching illegally is racially divisive. Illegal aliens getting benefits that CITIZENS don't even get....that's racially divisive.

Calling someone a *** is funny, right? You think? Everyone laughs, no one cares. Calling someone the N word could land you in hot water. Chris Rock calls white people "cracka ass cracka" in his comedy routine. Jeff Foxworthy has yet to use the N word at all. As a matter of fact, I can't think of ANY white comedian that has had to use the N word. You? THAT'S racially divisive. Some races are regarded as "holy, sacred cows" and others as "slaughter cows". The first kind, "sacred cows", no one can touch. The second kind, "slaughter cows", it's always their season. How is that fair? Use your head! This is plain common sense.

----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

LS400:

It seems that my identifying a common theme in your threads has somewhat distressed you. I am sorry I was not online to reply to your three unaswered posts to me. Often times I venture out to the real world and unbelievably, will not think about web-boards for days.



> quote:Still no reply or apology from Wayfarer. Gone like the wind. I guess when confronted with facts he fades like a vampire in the sunlight. Which is to be expected when one spouts off without knowing the facts, I suppose!


Spout off? Confronted with facts? Did you or did you not start three threads in quick succession that I stated you did? That is the only "fact" I posted, I do not see what facts to the contrary I was "confronted" with. It was an interesting pattern to me and I think worth of note.



> quote:Are you insinuating that I have common sense? I hope this is where you were going with this!
> 
> Can you defend Ebonics? Can you defend the use of the "N" word? Can you defend illegal entry into our country? If so, Wayfarer, please indulge us!


Do you even read your other threads? If you do, please notice the time stamps on my posts in this thread vs. the one in the illegal immigrant thread. You will see I painted a pretty negative picture of the impact illegal immigrants are having in my area *before* I posted here. Please save your indignant rhetoric.

I see I am not the only one that notices how often you have started threads on hot button topics having to do with race and culture. I still feel my question was valid and you never answered it.

Warmest regards


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually if you read the post, you'd see I said I *wouldn't* be able to get away with calling an Italian American in Bensonhurst a W*p. There would be nothing funny about situation I'd be in. Personally, I think arguing for the ability to call Blacks n*ggers without consequence is quite divisive personally I'd never argue for the ability to call Jews K*kes without a backlash. I haven't question your motives, but maintain that you seem to focus on what could be racially divisive issues.
To me Patrick summed it up, be polite. Why describe any race in a manner they find offensive?


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jpeirpont_
> 
> Actually if you read the post, you'd see I said I *wouldn't* be able to get away with calling an Italian American in Bensonhurst a W*p. There would be nothing funny about situation I'd be in. Personally, I think arguing for the ability to call Blacks n*ggers without consequence is quite divisive personally I'd never argue for the ability to call Jews K*kes without a backlash. I haven't question your motives, but maintain that you seem to focus on what could be racially divisive issues.
> To me Patrick summed it up, be polite. Why describe any race in a manner they find offensive?


Amen

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## LS400 (Sep 12, 2005)

> quote:Originally posted by jpeirpont
> Actually if you read the post, you'd see I said I wouldn't be able to get away with calling an Italian American in Bensonhurst a W*p. There would be nothing funny about situation I'd be in. Personally, I think arguing for the ability to call Blacks n*ggers without consequence is quite divisive personally I'd never argue for the ability to call Jews K*kes without a backlash. I haven't question your motives, but maintain that you seem to focus on what could be racially divisive issues.
> To me Patrick summed it up, be polite. Why describe any race in a manner they find offensive?


First of all, let me say this. I really think that if we (all that have opined here) were all around a table with some nice smokes, things would be different as far as the tone, the balance, the "tension" etc. Just my opinion. A lot is lost writing back and forth without being able to speak in person. I am sure you are all fine people, we just disagree.

I've only lost my cool once (well almost) when a certain person made allegations about me and didn't have the onions to back up those statements. He still hasn't backed up those statements.

I live in a city that is about 70% Hispanic if not higher. Whites are a minority here along with Asians and Blacks. I went to a school that was about 50% Black.

I know a little about racism because I've been a victim of it. In all honesty, who hasn't? When you're "the man" (White) and you're also "the REAL minority".......well, you get the picture. I have nothing against the Latin community as a whole or any other race or group. Out of my circle of friends only two are White. Go figure. And one of the White friends is _more_ liberally minded on social issues than any of my friends of other national orgins.

So, in short, I can only say that justice, hopefully, will prevail in the end.

----It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man----


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> 
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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

Nothing like rich white people complaining about racism.

LS, the main folly here is a lack of realization of social realities. What you've attempted to do is divest the issue of its history and social reality. It's been simplified to "they get to do this and I don't. It's wrong when I do it it should be wrong when you do it too." The colorblind idea D'Souza pushes for, and David Duke as it turns out.

Stanley Fish wrote an excellent book entitled "There's no such thing as free speech: and it's a good thing to." That you might want to check out if you want to learn more about the subject.

The fact is something very different is happening when an African American uses the N word then when a white person does. The N word, like all other words, have different meanings in different contexts.

For instance, when David Duke says "welfare mothers" everyone knows who he is talking about.

Likewise when a homosexual calls himself a "******," it doesn't mean the same thing as it does coming from a crowd of skinheads.

So the main difference is in the context, and actually the ACLU in their free speech cases defend hate speech all the time, something I personally disagree with, but that is all part of there "first they come for Limbaugh and the guilty then they come for the rest of us" philosophy.

As far as movies using such language, remember Jackie Brown? QT directed it and it used the word more than probably any other picture that had come out to that date. It riled up quite a bit of controversy and there are still groups today who want to eliminate the word across the board. More success though has been achieved by GLAD attempting to ban gay bashing language across the board

Something more interesting in my mind is the "code language" like the above mentioned Duke uses. Or when people quote the beginning of "I have a dream" to say something completely different then what the actual speech was about.

Now is the use of the word by African Americans detrimental to their community? Perhaps, but that is a different subject then why is it different when an African American says it then when a white person says it.

As far as Medved, I find it difficult to take him seriously after his famous campaign against bugs bunny for cross dressing. Who is he going to take on next? Milton Berle?


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

MER, excellent post.

That is the exact point that the guy was making in the essay that I quoted. His basic point is that the reason black people can say n*gger and white people can't is because when black people say it they are using it in a totally different way than when white people say it. When white people use it they are either using it because they are racist or because they are describing racism, whereaas blacks use it in a number of different contexts such as a joke, a term of endearment, or a rallying point. This is a way that white people generally don't and can't use it.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

LS400, I do think Wayfarer has a point. I've noticed some rather "controversial" discussions and posts lately from a number of people. In your defense, you have started threads on a wide range of ideas, but I too am wondering about a pattern.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_


 'University'? Which reminds me...though I forget the author: 'There are two universities in England,. four in France, ten in Prussia, and thirty-seven in Ohio'. 

[/quote]

"Two universities in England"????!!! WTF?! "Prussia"? Prussia ceased all existence as a geopolitical entity in 1945. The remark sounds kinda dated, to say the least: 1830, perhaps?


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

(N)ylon??? [}]


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> "Two universities in England"????!!! WTF?!


Oxford and Cambridge of course.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> 
> 
> > quote:"Two universities in England"????!!! WTF?! "Prussia"? Prussia ceased all existence as a geopolitical entity in 1945. The remark sounds kinda dated, to say the least: 1830, perhaps?


Ha, yes. Many of my quotations are quite dated. [:I]

I suspect the one in question may be by de Tocqueville, though the principle to which it alludes is still relevant.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> though the principle to which it alludes is still relevant.


Yes, relevant and thoroughly discredited.

One of my greatest pleasures in law school as a guy that went to a small second-tier Catholic undergrad was making law review over several of my colleagues from far more prestigious undergrads such as Harvard, Princeton, and Yale.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_


Sadly, many here confuse thought-provoking with trolling, but one can hardly blame them. I think the gentlemanly aura of AAAC spoils all of us, because in my thirteen years online at other message boards I have witnessed true trolling, and this certainly isn't it. Some of these topics are the same ones trolls will use, but your thoughtful replies are not what a true troll would write.

I myself have sometimes been similarly accused - usually by sly implication, of course - for having the temerity to start threads here on the Interchange about topics on which people would not be expected to unanimously agree. But as long as the tenor remains gentlemanly and (inso far as possible) dispassionate, I think it is a good use of the Interchange to share ideas with this remarkable group of people. We have a membership mixture that is quite unlike, I dare say, that of any other forum; in terms of geography, erudition, thoughtfulness, taste, and sense of humour.

Thank you for posting interesting topics, even though we don't always agree.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
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> ...


 You've obviously misconstrued the principle, then. It isn't about individual students, but about how freely the term 'university' is sometimes applied.

But though the principle is valid, it is not, ironically, relevant. So I am wrong on that end. I just looked up the Howard controversy, and it had nothing to do with Howard University. It was about Washington, DC city official David Howard using the term 'niggardly' in a private conversation with two other staffers.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> You've obviously misconstrued the principle, then. It isn't about individual students, but about how freely the term 'university' is sometimes applied.
> 
> But though the principle is valid, it is not, ironically, relevant. So I am wrong on that end. I just looked up the Howard controversy, and it had nothing to do with Howard University. It was about Washington, DC city official David Howard using the term 'niggardly' in a private conversation with two other staffers.


I thought the principal was that there were only a few *real* Universities in the world and that the rest were some kind of "wanna-be" universities.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
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 That is the principle - though since that quotation was uttered, many more genuine universities have been created. But is every place that calls itself a university a true university? I think not.

By the way, it is rather funny the way in which this thread is being derailed. Normally, the topic would have started as universities but ended up being about racism, but in this case, it's the reverse!


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> That is the principle - though since that quotation was uttered, many more genuine universities have been created. But is every place that calls itself a university a true university? I think not.
> 
> By the way, it is rather funny the way in which this thread is being derailed. Normally, the topic would have started as universities but ended up being about racism, but in this case, it's the reverse!


Haha, good observatio. Personally I would rather talk about Universities, so here goes. If a degree is commonly accepted by members of a community as coming from a University, then it is a University. In other words, to get into law school I have to show a valid bachelor's degree from an accredited University. My bachelors from my small Catholic institution was just as good as a bachelors from Princeton or Harvard.

By the way, one could argue that places like Harvard or Princeton are no longer Universities as that was understood at the time that quote was made. What with all the grade inflation that goes on there...

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

My understanding is that universities are different from colleges in that colleges only provide one type of degree. This is why universities are often comprised of multiple colleges or "schools". One to offer bachelors degrees in the Arts and Sciences, one to provide degrees in engineering, one to provide medical degrees, and so forth and so on. There are many colleges in the United States that offer only bachelors degrees and are more than capable of sending their students on to professional/graduate training at universities.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> Haha, good observatio. Personally I would rather talk about Universities, so here goes. If a degree is commonly accepted by members of a community as coming from a University, then it is a University. In other words, to get into law school I have to show a valid bachelor's degree from an accredited University. My bachelors from my small Catholic institution was just as good as a bachelors from Princeton or Harvard.
> 
> ...


 But if members of a community accept (as many do) a polo shirt and chinos as being 'formal dress', does that make it so? Your degree may well be equal or superior to many of those issued by Havard or Yale - I think those places have sadly become citadels of political correctness and in so doing, have abdicated much of their academic integrity.

Universities are far from equal, and many, indeed, are universities in name only. They might better be termed 'college' or 'institute' or even just 'school'. All of them are being dumbed down, to be sure (before the second World War, both Greek and Latin were required to read for a degree at Oxford - this has been abolished to make the place 'more democratic'), but some place primacy with their academic reputations, and others with athletics, and others with a particular religious manifesto, and still others with technical skills. As Paul Fussell has humourously pointed out, many of the 'true' universities have dropped 'university' from their colloquial titles, ie Oxford, the Sorbonne, Durham, &c., seemingly as a quiet acknowledgement that the term 'university' has been misappropriated by so many poseurs.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by hopkins_student_
> 
> My understanding is that universities are different from colleges in that colleges only provide one type of degree. This is why universities are often comprised of multiple colleges or "schools". One to offer bachelors degrees in the Arts and Sciences, one to provide degrees in engineering, one to provide medical degrees, and so forth and so on. There are many colleges in the United States that offer only bachelors degrees and are more than capable of sending their students on to professional/graduate training at universities.


Yes, this is right. For example, one could get a bachelors from a liberal arts college that is not part of a University.

I think the message behind the quote that was posted though was not that those places were the only "Universities" as that term is technically defined, but that those places (the 2 in England or whatever) are the only "real" institutions of higher learning, when clearly they are not.

For example, Howard meets the technical definition of a University, but the person who said that quote (and JLP) apparently do not consider Howard to be a *true* university.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Keep in mind, often what makes a certain univeristy or program within a certain university, are the alumni. Take MBA programs for instance. There are many MBAs that are just as rigorous as the Harvard MBA, some even superior i.e. Wharton, yet Harvard is still the most known b-school by the general public and commands the best hiring salaries (give or take a small % by year). A large factor driving that is that the alumni consider it a priviledge to further the careers of other HBS graduates. When one graduates from HBS they do not only have a top flight MBA, they have literally thousands of people in positions of power, ready and willing to help them. I have often thought that what has kept so many of the old schools on top is the inertia generated by decades of alumni.

Warmest regards


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> Keep in mind, often what makes a certain univeristy or program within a certain university, are the alumni. Take MBA programs for instance. There are many MBAs that are just as rigorous as the Harvard MBA, some even superior i.e. Wharton, yet Harvard is still the most known b-school by the general public and commands the best hiring salaries (give or take a small % by year). A large factor driving that is that the alumni consider it a priviledge to further the careers of other HBS graduates. When one graduates from HBS they do not only have a top flight MBA, they have literally thousands of people in positions of power, ready and willing to help them. I have often thought that what has kept so many of the old schools on top is the inertia generated by decades of alumni.
> 
> Warmest regards


This is definitely true. It is also true of smaller and less well known schools, but the only problem is that these schools don't have as many people in the highest positions. From my own personal experience, alumni from the schools that I have attended have at least gotten my foot into the door in a lot of places. Obviously they can't help much if you're not really qualified (which isn't a problem for Harvard people because if you come from Harvard you must a fortiori be qualified), but just getting that foot in the door for an interview can make all the difference.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> So wait, what's the point of this thread, do you want black people to stop using the word, or do you want white people to start using it more frequently?
> 
> ...


ROTFLMAO!


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

Now, observe as I tie both threads into a single knot!

As some of you know, I attended the oldest "university" in Ohio, founded in 1809 and honored by my presence some one hundred and eighty years later. It's probably the best school in Ohio, but it ain't no Haaaahvud. Of course, Haaaahvud ain't no Haaahvud anymore; it's a dual-use institution where unqualified legacies pay the bills of charity cases who wouldn't academically qualify without the advantage of ethnicity or claimed poverty. I'm not sure there is anyone at the fine East Coast schools any more who simply meets the requirements and writes the check. I digress. Back to the story.

The fellow sitting next to me in one of my freshman, excuse me, first-year-student classes was a white South African. He'd applied to my school under the typical meet-the-requirements-and-write-the-check expectations - only to find out that his entire four years would be paid for due to his outstanding academics and African status! No fool he, he accepted the offer and showed up for class...

...and in the second week of his academic career he was frog-marched down to the school's police office to face an inquisition about his fraudulent application. Apparently, his resident life person had scheduled an African-American Togetherness Clinic for him and had realized that this man had lied, lied! about being African.

Well, after eight weeks and two attorneys he was allowed to return to class on a partial scholarship to make up for the missed quarter. He was utterly befuddled by the whole thing, to say the least. 



----------------------


"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

Why was he scheduled for an African-American event if he identified himself as African?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by J. Homely_
> 
> Why was he scheduled for an African-American event if he identified himself as African?


You have asked the exact question to perfectly expose liberal prejudices, which are basically the same as ******* ones (I use ******* for lack of a better term). Liberal ones are perfectly acceptable however.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> Of course, Haaaahvud ain't no Haaahvud anymore; it's a dual-use institution where unqualified legacies pay the bills of charity cases who wouldn't academically qualify without the advantage of ethnicity or claimed poverty. I'm not sure there is anyone at the fine East Coast schools any more who simply meets the requirements and writes the check. I digress. Back to the story.


So now _everyone _at Harvard is either a legacy or some unqualified quota student. And there are _no _black or other minority students who would qualify academically?

You're sure about that?



> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> The fellow sitting next to me in one of my freshman, excuse me, first-year-student classes was a white South African. He'd applied to my school under the typical meet-the-requirements-and-write-the-check expectations - only to find out that his entire four years would be paid for due to his outstanding academics and African status! No fool he, he accepted the offer and showed up for class...
> 
> ...and in the second week of his academic career he was frog-marched down to the school's police office to face an inquisition about his fraudulent application. Apparently, his resident life person had scheduled an African-American Togetherness Clinic for him and had realized that this man had lied, lied! about being African.
> ...


This story seems extremely unlikely. Your alma mater is in the habit of handing out free tuition to foriegn students based on the _continent _they come from? When they have made no such request?

Why would he attend any kind of African-American event when he is South African?

He was "frogmarched" to the campus police office to answer questions regarding his application form? One would have thought the registrar's office would have been the place to start an investigation. An investigation that would have taken approximately 30 seconds to complete one would imagine.

Maybe you could give us some further details of this strange case?

------------------


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> Now, observe as I tie both threads into a single knot!
> 
> ...


This story sounds a bit dubious. I've saw the application before and it says African American/Black I'm sure even someone not familiar with our system would be aware the fact that they aren't Black.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It is a perfectly legitimate question. Why would an African attend an event for African-_Americans_?

What prejudice do you see there? What is liberal about that prejudice?

------------------


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jpeirpont_
> 
> This story sounds a bit dubious.


To say the least....

------------------


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> This story seems extremely unlikely. Your alma mater is in the habit of handing out free tuition to foriegn students based on the _continent _they come from? When they have made no such request?


At the time, they had an active minority outreach program due to our black student percentage being unfashionably low (As I recall, one year we had 300 black students out of 13,000 undergrads). Any minority applicant would be offered additional help immediately.



> quote:Why would he attend any kind of African-American event when he is South African?


Exactly.



> quote:He was "frogmarched" to the campus police office to answer questions regarding his application form? One would have thought the registrar's office would have been the place to start an investigation. An investigation that would have taken approximately 30 seconds to complete one would imagine.
> 
> Maybe you could give us some further details of this strange case?


Have I made the story too difficult for you to read? The Residence Life people couldn't quite conceive of a white African; therefore, they were preparing to turn him out of the school forcibly for faking his app. Of course they had already gone to the registrar's office and retrieved the app... Sheesh, next time I'll do my posting in cartoon form. You've never been a particularly bright fellow but this is worse than normal. As for details, they would have to come from the fellow involved; after fifteen years I have no idea where he could be found. I wouldn't even know which country with which to start.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:This story sounds a bit dubious. I've saw the application before


Given this sentence, one fervently hopes you didn't "saw" it when you were filling it out.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ahhh, gmac, I knew this would be too good for you to pass up 

Read carefully, you'll see I said the liberal bias was _exactly the same_ as the ******* one. I also said I was using "*******" for lack of a better term, to be more forth coming, I was using it to mean "right wing dumb f**k xenophobe".

So the university administration gave this gentleman as scholarship as they automatically assumed he was black, as *he was from Africa, right?* Just the sort of uninformed thing liberals so often accuse ******** of. I assume the university was liberal, as from Flatsix's description, I have narrowed it down to one of two universities, with Urbana being my first choice, and it is well known for its PC'ness.

Warmest regards


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Ok FlatSix, I tried to be polite but since you have dispensed with any pretence toward civility let's cut to the chase.

This story is obviously a load of made-up crap and you are a liar. Not a very good one either since a child could see that this story has more holes in it than Blackburn, Lancashire.

Please do start to post in cartoon form - although it could hardly be more amusing than your inane story.

------------------


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> Ahhh, gmac, I knew this would be too good for you to pass up
> 
> Read carefully, you'll see I said the liberal bias was _exactly the same_ as the ******* one.


Uh-huh. So what? You talked about _liberal _prejudices. I didn't ask you about your opinion of ********, I asked you why you referred to it (whatever it might be) as liberal prejudice (not bias, prejudice, which was the word you used originally)



> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> So the university administration gave this gentleman as scholarship as they automatically assumed he was black, as *he was from Africa, right?* Just the sort of uninformed thing liberals so often accuse ******** of. I assume the university was liberal, as from Flatsix's description, I have narrowed it down to one of two universities, with Urbana being my first choice, and it is well known for its PC'ness.


No, FlatSix made up a palpably false story for his own reasons. The fact that you choose to believe it shows that you are either happy to believe anything that might affirm your own biases or that you are a bit gullible.

You choose.

------------------


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I would not be so quick to dismiss this story gmac. First, let me tell you one of my own, call me a liar if you wish, but it is 100% true.

During a class in my undergrad, a black speaker was giving a speech on why affirmative action is needed. I started to pepper him with questions and he finally said to me, "Look, white women are the biggest beneficiary of affirmative action. I know you're married, affirmative action has helped your wife." I told him I was indeed married, but not to a white lady. "Why," I asked, "did you assume my wife is white? Because I am? So you basically just made an assumption about my life based on my race. Do you not see your own racism?" Needless to say the wind had been let completely out of his sails.

Another story, one I cannot verify, except to say the gentleman that told it to me is a close friend of some years and has always been most truthful. Said friend is black and went to Howard for his undergrad. He related a story similar to the one Flatsix did that occurred to an aquaintance of his at Howard. What happened was he was offered a scholarship and TA position at the U of Mich. When it came out he was not black (I mean, he was from Howard right?), the offer was withdrawn. It would seem such things do on occasion happen.

Warmest regards


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you are intelligent enough to understand what I said, but for some unfathomable reason you just do not want to. It makes me wonder why you do not want to see when someone is pointing out commonality between the extremes; my conclusion is you do not want to see it.

If both extremes have the same prejudices, biases, shortsightedness, etc., does that not just make them opposite sides of the same problem? Ahhh, there we go....you have identified what side of the *problem* you want to be on vs. chosing to be part of the *solution.*



> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> So the university administration gave this gentleman as scholarship as they automatically assumed he was black, as *he was from Africa, right?* Just the sort of uninformed thing liberals so often accuse ******** of. I assume the university was liberal, as from Flatsix's description, I have narrowed it down to one of two universities, with Urbana being my first choice, and it is well known for its PC'ness.





> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> No, FlatSix made up a palpably false story for his own reasons. The fact that you choose to believe it shows that you are either happy to believe anything that might affirm your own biases or that you are a bit gullible.
> 
> You choose.


I chose gullible. I do not ever want to be as bitter as you and assume everyone is lying to me if I do not like what they are saying.

Warmest regards


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

Wait, so it was 1989 of all times, Nelson Mandela still in jail with half of America calling for his release. Even Reagan and Thatcher starting to support the movement against apartheid after opposing it for years. And the heads of your school were clueless enough about world/current affairs to not know that he was a white south african? I mean honestly 1989 you have a black south african at your school you put him in the brochure.

As far as the racism you point to, i.e. black people assuming things against white people yes that is racism. But racism on a different scale. The most dangerous kind of racism is that which involves a disparate power relationship. So really there isn't much harm involved in someone assuming your wife is white and it is probably true. He is also assuming you are straight, but those are assumptions we make all the time, and while in some insignificant way they may reflect racial or sexual orientation beliefs, they are relatively harmless. There are much more important problems of race relation then someone assuming a white guy is married to a white woman.

I fail to see how that would connect to affirmative action though.

And as far as recipients of affirmative action being unqualified, UC regents did a series of studies before their own affirmative action program was struck down. You'll remember their program was the one railed against by republicans and reagan democrats more then any other. Theirs was where they had a preset number of slots for african american students no matter who applied or how qualified their records made them out to be. As it turned out the attrition rates and scholastic achievement between the two groups was virtually identical.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> I would not be so quick to dismiss this story gmac. First, let me tell you one of my own, call me a liar if you wish, but it is 100% true.
> 
> During a class in my undergrad, a black speaker was giving a speech on why affirmative action is needed. I started to pepper him with questions and he finally said to me, "Look, white women are the biggest beneficiary of affirmative action. I know you're married, affirmative action has helped your wife." I told him I was indeed married, but not to a white lady. "Why," I asked, "did you assume my wife is white? Because I am? So you basically just made an assumption about my life based on my race. Do you not see your own racism?" Needless to say the wind had been let completely out of his sails.


One man making an erroneous assumption about you based on incomplete information(how did he know you were married? he obviously didn't know you well enough to know that your wife isn't white) is a bit different to a university dishing out a full ride scholarship based on complete information.

In his ludicrous story FlatSix would have us believe that _foreign _students are being handed out cash simply because of where they are from. I don't know what the application form looks like for this particular college but I will assume it has a section regarding race/ethnicity. Presuming our South African friend completed that section as Caucasian then why would the college ignore that.



> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> Another story, one I cannot verify, except to say the gentleman that told it to me is a close friend of some years and has always been most truthful. Said friend is black and went to Howard for his undergrad. He related a story similar to the one Flatsix did that occurred to an aquaintance of his at Howard. What happened was he was offered a scholarship and TA position at the U of Mich. When it came out he was not black (I mean, he was from Howard right?), the offer was withdrawn. It would seem such things do on occasion happen.


Sounds just as unlikely as FlatSix's phoney baloney. I've no idea where or what Howard is but I am really doubting that U Mich is offering scholarship's or TA positions based on where a student is from because they assume that student will be a certain ethnicity.

I don't doubt that scholarships are awarded with ethnicity as a qualifying parameter but I don't think anyone is dishing out money based on someone's zip code. I also don't believe that TA positions are awarded based on ethnicity alone.

You should have added something about the guy being frogmarched to the gendarmes, just to spice it up a little.

------------------


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Actually, stories like the one FlatSix told are the reason that most universities have the choice on the application as "African-American/Black" instead of just putting "African" or "African-American." Even if the exact details of his story aren't true (and they may be, I'm not judging) the gist of the story is true enough. There was a case of a woman of Egyptian ancestry getting Underrepresented Minority preference in her law school application because she checked "African-American."

Of course, the problem I see with this is that the woman knew she was trying to exploit a technicality and she knew that she was not the intended recipient of the preference given to black Americans, but she checked that box anyway because she wanted to claim the benefit and she "technically" was an American with African heritage. In law, I've discovered, you often *can't* get away with things on a technicality in a way that popular culture seems to think that you can.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by MER_
> 
> So really there isn't much harm involved in someone assuming your wife is white and it is probably true. There are much more important problems of race relation then someone assuming a white guy is married to a white woman.


Racism is racism is racism. As Aristotle would say, it is all just a matter of degree.



> quote:_Originally posted by MER_
> 
> And as far as recipients of affirmative action being unqualified, UC regents did a series of studies before their own affirmative action program was struck down. You'll remember their program was the one railed against by republicans and reagan democrats more then any other. Theirs was where they had a preset number of slots for african american students no matter who applied or how qualified their records made them out to be. As it turned out the attrition rates and scholastic achievement between the two groups was virtually identical.


Could you be so kind as to post the following information the same studies revealed? What were the average admission test scores for blacks and asians?

Warmest regards


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

Yes, like larceny by trick. Everyone seems to think if you change price tags at a store it's not a big deal...no it's larceny. You might as well toss the thing in your bag and run. Or larceny by continuing trespass. Or actually a whole lot of criminal law, you woudl think a set of laws and rules established to instill morality and values would be better known by everyone.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> I chose gullible. I do not ever want to be as bitter as you and assume everyone is lying to me if I do not like what they are saying.


I don't assume _everyone _is lying to me - just those who present palpably false stories in some ridiculous attempt to make a point.

There are many other reasons for my bitterness.

As for your stupid contortions about who you said was prejudiced, you have stopped making any kind of sense. All I am asking is for you to describe the bias you are talking about - and please don't rely on FlatSix's story - and why you think that is a "liberal bias".

------------------


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Odd you only accuse those of lying that you disagree with politically. Hmmm, spurious corelation? Must be.


> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> As for your stupid contortions about who you said was prejudiced, you have stopped making any kind of sense. All I am asking is for you to describe the bias you are talking about - and please don't rely on FlatSix's story - and why you think that is a "liberal bias".


I thought I had described them, indeed with detail. Please re-read my posts.

Good day gmac


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> Odd you only accuse those of lying that you disagree with politically. Hmmm, spurious corelation? Must be.


FlatSix has the dubious privelege of being the first AAAC I have called a liar - and I wouldn't have done that had he not been rude to me. It would have been simple enough to demonstrate the story was made up without getting nasty - however, he said I wasn't very bright and that won't do.

There are plenty of other posts I have read and thought were bulls**t but I haven't called anybody on it before.



> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> I thought I had described them, indeed with detail. Please re-read my posts.
> 
> Good day gmac


You have tried to but are just tying yourself in knots.

Good day? Are we done here? Oh well, maybe FlatSix will come back and defend his (made-up) story...

------------------


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

Oh come on now, a matter of degrees? That's like saying, you know jaywalking, murder...it's all just a matter of degrees. No, perhaps in a perfect world we would have neither, but it is ridiculous to conflate the two. At the very least you would want the police to spend their time going after murderers. Also there is the power component to it as well. And the fact that the only sure way to solve bad racism is with good racism.

As far as the study i'm not sure it I explained it correctly. It looked at how well the students did once they were accepted and found virtually no difference between the students who supposedly made it on merit and the "slot" kids.

As far as affirmative action (just so we make sure we get EVERYTHING out there in this thread) I've noticed that most people who have a problem with affirmative action have a problem with it because you don't get the most talented students. That the students with better work ethic and more talent don't get in while these AA kids do. Well those same people don't seem to be bothered by white guy affirmative action (legacies), or by the disparate impacts you get from things like early decision (rich kid affirmative action). So if someone is willing to accept these things, why can't they also accept a disparate impact because of race, which has as its goal something much more important and does have real benefits to the education of the students of the school.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by MER_
> 
> As far as the study i'm not sure it I explained it correctly. It looked at how well the students did once they were accepted and found virtually no difference between the students who supposedly made it on merit and the "slot" kids.


So then, the whole concept of admitting people based on merit is.....meritless?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by MER_
> Also there is the power component to it as well. And the fact that the only sure way to solve bad racism is with good racism.


I missed this little gem. "Good racism"? Oh man, could I have a field day with that one. The power component too....I'm starting to channel thoughts here....Catherine MacKinnon? Andrea Dworkin? bell hook? Toni Morrison? Maybe some Foucault or Derrida reading you've done? It is getting clearer.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> So then, the whole concept of admitting people based on merit is.....meritless?


I think the whole concept of admitting people based on merit is, at best, rather illusive. Let me give you a personal example. When I was an undergrad I was talking to some people about the LSAT. I first spoke to a White Jewish well-off man who told me that his parents were paying for him to take the top-of-the-line LSAT review courses and had hired a personal tutor for him. I also spoke to a black girl who told me that the best she could afford to do was to buy a self-study book and that she wouldn't even be able to devote too much time to that because she has a job to go to so that she could pay for her undergraduate tuition and expenses.

So, when the white guy does better on the LSAT than the black girl in my story, and thereby increases his chances of being accepted to a better law school, does that really mean that he has more merit or that he would be a better student while there than the black girl?

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> Of course, the problem I see with this is that the woman knew she was trying to exploit a technicality and she knew that she was not the intended recipient of the preference given to black Americans, but she checked that box anyway because she wanted to claim the benefit and she "technically" was an American with African heritage.


And there's the rub.......

In FlatSix's story he seesm to be attempting to make some point about people making assumptions. Here the college made a judgement based on false information deliberately provided by the applicant - a completely different situation.

As to whether or not a person of Egyptian heritage can legitimately claim to be African-American, that is a different argument...

------------------


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I understand what you are getting at and agree to some extent. In the above scenario, the rich Jewish guy probably would be the better student, as he will be able to not be distracted from studying by things like feeding himself or paying the rent while the black girl will be. One can even question standardized testing, which I do, but not in the usual way. I tend to think the LSAT does indicate who will be a good law student....however, I do not think being a good law student indicates who will be a good lawyer. Many will no doubt disagree.

Odoreater, I figure I am a pretty average Joe, nothing special about me. I managed to pull myself out of rural poverty so I figure most anyone can, if they stay focused. Most people settle and that is the difference.

Warmest regards


----------



## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> Odoreater, I figure I am a pretty average Joe, nothing special about me. I managed to pull myself out of rural poverty so I figure most anyone can, if they stay focused. Most people settle and that is the difference.


Look, I'm in the same boat. When my family moved to the US we had nothing but the clothes on our backs, and I've done pretty well for myself. But, being white, you and I haven't had to experience some of the discrimination that black people have to endure in this country, which may have made it a little bit easier for us to succeed. I'm not trying to take anything away from people like you and me, we worked very hard to get to where we are, but for some people, there may be a wall up that they can never penetrate simply because of the color of their skin.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Not to be a pedant (too late), but I've always thought (and apparently so have the compilers of English dictionaries) that 'racism' does not refer to making a dispassionate inference about a person based on race, but instead describes a belief in immutable racial hierarchies. Whilst these two concepts may often overlap, they do not do so by definition.

It is important to select words carefully, lest all clumps of slightly nuanced words morph - through repeated incorrect usage - into batches of redundant synonyms, losing all shade of difference, and the palette of our language becomes hopelessly blurred and hoof-handed.

Such is the danger of abolishing 'niggardly' due to ignorance of its meaning and etymology. I would suggest, however, that a reasonable compromise would be to reserve 'niggardly' for text alone, since as a spoken word it is obviously liable to be mistaken for something quite sinister and vulgar.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> Not to be a pedant (too late), but I've always thought (and apparently so have the compilers of English dictionaries) that 'racism' does not refer to making a dispassionate inference about a person based on race, but instead describes a belief in immutable racial hierarchies. Whilst these two concepts may often overlap, they do not do so by definition.


Yeah, where were you when I was being called a "racist" because I made an observation that black people dress differently than white people on the zoot suit thread? I was trying to explain to people who were calling me racist that the definition of the word "racism" has a conjuction in its definition requiring (1) a belief that race accounts for differences, *and* a belief that one race is superior or inferior on account of those differences. Could have used some support on that one.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> So then, the whole concept of admitting people based on merit is.....meritless?


Nice strawman, no the point of the study was to counter the assertion made by many at the time, which was that affirmative action was harmful to the people of california and scare them of the thought of incompetent doctors coming out of the affirmative action programs. The study showed that the affirmative action students were just as capable. This wasn't a critique on the idea of merit, but on the way merit was gauged and how determined and capable these individuals who made it to the affirmative action slots were. Personally I thought there were 3 main reasons: first because med school isn't that hard anyway , second because the students are already so close in abilities, sure one group might not be as talented as the other but it might not be enough to make a statistical difference, and third because admissions processes have never really been that good at picking out the best anyway.

As far as "good racism" it comes from the period just after the 1964 civil rights act, and was the theory for most everything between '64 and the reagan democrats. So if bell hooks uses it she got it from then. I dunno, all i've read of hers was the opening to one of her books where she talks about how she was in first class with a friend, (who didn't have a ticket for first class) and when the gentleman came over to his seat he insisted the friend move. And to bell hooks this was the greatest racial injustice of all time. She spent the whole flight sitting next to this guy and writing in large script in a notebook about the awful white man. At that point I returned the book to the library and made it a point to never read anything by anyone who doesn't use capital letters (ee cummings you're on notice!)

And toni morrison? Come on give me some credit here. That would be like looking to J.K. Rowling to learn about education.

No, the best book I ever read on race was written back in the 50's by George Schuler? I think his name was. It was called "Black no More" brilliant work, a bit of a black comedy. Really fortells a great deal.

And the worst was "Black like Me," oh man, such a bad book. Really doesn't last the test of time.

As far as Foucault, I spent so much time around grad students just the sound of that name turns my stomach. I mean he was a smart guy, pretty interesting, but I mean could you talk about somebody else for like 5 minutes?

I understand Derrida, i mean the name is just fun to say you just want to bring it up as much as possible. that's the same reason I always talk about my friends Guha, Spivak, and Pavinelli, preferable in the same breath.

Oh, but I would like to get everyone's input as far as what you think about schools putting a higher and higher focus on extracurriculars and individuals showing that they are "well rounded," especially as it relates to professional school.

Personally i don't really care how well my doctor plays the tuba. I just care about how capable he is as a doctor. And why was he spending all of this time playing the tuba in med school anyway? Why wasn't he in class?


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Sorry, didn't see that one, or I would have made an effort to support that point.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MER_
> As far as "good racism" it comes from the period just after the 1964 *civil rights act*, and was the theory for most everything between '64 and the *reagan democrats*. So if *bell hooks * uses it she got it from then. I dunno, all *i've* read of hers was the opening to one of her books where she talks about how she was in first class with a friend, (who didn't have a ticket for first class) and when the gentleman came over to his seat he insisted the friend move. And to *bell hooks * this was the greatest racial injustice of all time. She spent the whole flight sitting next to this guy and writing in large script in a notebook about the awful white man. At that point I returned the book to the library and made it a point to *never read anything by anyone who doesn't use capital letters * (ee cummings you're on notice!)


 Is this satire, pray tell?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by MER_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okay, we have some differences of opinion it seems, but anyone that can mock the people you just did, the way you did, is okay in my book. [8D]

Warmest regards

P.S. Not a straw man, btw. If the goal of a study is to show outcome doesn't differ due to merit, then indeed, it is meritless


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. Funny but doesn't change the point I was making.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I'm starting to think the name of this forum should be changed to "The Sandbox."


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Patrick06790_
> 
> I'm starting to think the name of this forum should be changed to "The Sandbox."


The Interchange hath ever been thus. That's why I now stay off it as much as possible.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Patrick06790_
> 
> I'm starting to think the name of this forum should be changed to "The Sandbox."


Too dangerous...I think a lot of the regulars are house-trained cats.


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or a apparently a plagiarist.


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## J. Homely (Feb 7, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> If the "N" word is so bad, why is it used by so many urban blacks in their music and speech?


Perhaps because some black people don't think it's 'bad'?



> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> If the "N" word is so bad, why is it used by so many urban blacks in their music and speech? I often heard that the mere sound of the word brought to mind images of slavery and oppression.


Perhaps because all black people do not think alike?



> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> Why wasn't the NAACP, the ADL, ACLU, Jesse Hijackson and Al Sharptongue and other groups advocating a picket outside the theaters or arranging apologies from the directors/actors of this film for using such a derrogatory word?


Why not ask them? I'm sure they'd welcome your genuine concern about the prospect of young black youth receiving negative messages from movies about glorified thugs.



> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> A girl told me recently that only blacks can say that word and no one else.


If I were to start a thread legitimizing everything 'a girl' said to me...



> quote:_Originally posted by LS400_
> 
> Remember what happened to the white guy, David Howard, at Howard University that used the word "niggardly" (miserly) in a privately held staff meeting? He was asked to resign his post because they thought it was a racial slur! The idiot stepped down instead of pointing out that those pointing the finger at him for being a racist didn't even know what the word meant! So, there you see the double standard! Why is that? The guy didn't even say the "N" word but merely said a word that was close phonetically but not by definition. Crazy! What say you?


You've been corrected at least twice, but Howard University makes a better story, doesn't it?


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> Is this satire, pray tell?


Wow, that was quick. I thought it might fly under the radar since I still started sentences with caps, but you're good.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wayfarer,

It can't be Urbana, if the university is in Ohio. Univ of Illinois' main campus is in Urbana-Champaign.

If the school was founded in 1809, then it is probably Miami University of Ohio. Very PC admin there, is a school where the mascot was changed to a PC friendly term. Miami is widely known as JC Crew U though, due to the type of student that is drawn there. 

Also, Ohio University in Athens is that oldest university in Ohio. It was founded/chartered in 1804. Go Bobcats!
Very PC at OU as well. 

Cheers,

JRR


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

JRR, you're right! I don't know what I was thinking Urbana was in Ohio. Thanks for the correction.

Warmest regards


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> Ok FlatSix, I tried to be polite


...with your usual incompetence and inanity, I would add.



> quote:but since you have dispensed with any pretence toward civility let's cut to the chase.
> 
> This story is obviously a load of made-up crap and you are a liar. Not a very good one either since a child could see that this story has more holes in it than Blackburn, Lancashire


This is exciting! This is what used to be called "giving the lie", as in "The fellow gave me the lie, so I struck him down like a dog."

The proper response to this, I believe, is the challenge. One person gives the lie, the other gives the challenge. I rarely have this kind of amusement in my life, so I will participate.

*gmac*, consider yourself slapped in the face with a glove. I demand satisfaction. I give my word of honor that I am no swordsman, therefore I suggest pistols at dawn. Your second may contact me. Failing to do so, I request that you quit the forum as the coward you so obviously are.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Hey, he's back!

Your last post didn't make any sense whatsoever. (There is kind of theme devloping here, eh?)

Want to try again?


------------------


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> I suggest pistols at dawn.


Might want to pick again. As it turns out gmac was a finalist at last years national quick draw championship. If it were me I would go for a dance off and take advantage of his canadian rhythm.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MER_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm Scottish!

Wait, that doesn't help my ryhthm.......

------------------


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> I'm Scottish!
> 
> Wait, that doesn't help my ryhthm.......


One would think a natural sense of balance and agility would be pre-requisite for doing the Sword or Shield dance though (those shields had foot long spikes on 'em!)

_Slainte_


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> Hey, he's back!
> 
> Your last post didn't make any sense whatsoever. (There is kind of theme devloping here, eh?)


Only one theme? I see at least two:

1) Your reading comprehension is marginally inferior to that of a chimp suffering from recent head trauma;
2) Your father was a notorious catamite and trained you in the art from infancy so that your low IQ would not prevent you from finding employment.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> 1) Your reading comprehension is marginally inferior to that of a chimp suffering from recent head trauma;


Do you often get caught out making up silly stories by monkeys with head wounds?

Yes, I suppose you probably do.......



> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> 2) Your father was a notorious catamite and trained you in the art from infancy so that your low IQ would not prevent you from finding employment.


I think I'll just leave that one alone. It says considerably more about you than it does about me.

------------------


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> I think I'll just leave that one alone. It says considerably more about you than it does about me.


meow
meow
meow
meow

Pansy.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## jklu (May 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> 2) Your father was a notorious catamite and trained you in the art from infancy so that your low IQ would not prevent you from finding employment.


I rarely post here, but this is so ridiculously ungentlemanly. I'd say it approaches the time you called a member's mother a whore.


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jklu_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which time would that be? The man called me a liar and won't give me satisfaction. He hides behind his anonymity. He wouldn't call me a liar at an AAAC gathering, so he needn't do it here.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jklu_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, he just did that to me. Go look in the Communist Chic thread.

Sweet fellow isn't he?

------------------


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

FlatSix, you are a witless bore.

Others might simply ignore you but I'm going to keep engaging you in order to allow yourself to demonstrate just what an ass you are.

------------------


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> FlatSix, you are a witless bore.
> 
> Others might simply ignore you but I'm going to keep engaging you in order to allow yourself to demonstrate just what an ass you are.


No you aren't. You are going to continue to hide behind "gmac", the imaginary world traveler and high-net-worth individual.

If you really want to engage me, it's simple. Send me your contact info. We can discuss your unfortunate tendency to call people liars without boring the rest of the AAAC forums, who are already tired enough of your fantasy life.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

Oh, gmac.. So quick to attack! So quick to respond! Four posts in ten minutes! And then...



> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> No you aren't. You are going to continue to hide behind "gmac", the imaginary world traveler and high-net-worth individual.
> 
> If you really want to engage me, it's simple. Send me your contact info. We can discuss your unfortunate tendency to call people liars without boring the rest of the AAAC forums, who are already tired enough of your fantasy life.


Now all I hear is

I think an apology is in order here. You apologize to me for giving me the lie, I will perhaps allow that I am not precisely correct about your personal habits, and you can go back to poli-trolling from your dorm room.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## jklu (May 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> Which time would that be? The man called me a liar and won't give me satisfaction. He hides behind his anonymity. He wouldn't call me a liar at an AAAC gathering, so he needn't do it here.


It was when a member accused you of trying to profit significantly on a pair of shoes that apparently were available on ebay before making their appearance on the Sales Forum. You probably had a right to be offended, as here, too, but how you take that as justification to impugn the character of these members' parents as well as make a homophobic quip is beyond me and, I believe, the spirit of AAAC.


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

FlatSix, I was wrong.

I was wrong to think that I could be bothered with you. I can't.

I'll go back to making dorm room comments, you go back to...., well, whatever it is you call what you do.

Your original story was baloney and everyone knows it.

See ya.

------------------


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jklu_
> It was when a member accused you of trying to profit significantly on a pair of shoes that apparently were available on ebay before making their appearance on the Sales Forum.


For the record, the "significant profit" was fifteen dollars, and the reason the member knew they were purchased on eBay was because I mentioned the auction in the original post.



> quote:You probably had a right to be offended, as here, too, but how you take that as justification to impugn the character of these members' parents as well as make a homophobic quip is beyond me and, I believe, the spirit of AAAC.


We're speaking of pederasty here, not homosexuality. It distresses me that you do not draw the line between the sexual abuse of children and the entirely consensual practices of adult homosexuals.

But the bottom line is this: In both cases, the other fellow led with an entirely personal and baseless insult. Nerdykarim implied I was a cheat; this gmac fellow stated clearly that I was a liar. Would you allow someone to make that accusation to your face? If not, then why smile at it on a forum? This isn't FARK or SomethingAwful, where imaginary characters endlessly insult each other; it's AAAC, where we have gatherings, where JLib and I travel a couple hundred miles to have dinner, where Carl Goldberg goes out of his way to be available to make a few shirts for me, and so on. I won't come up to you at the next gathering and call you a cheat or a liar. Why should I stand for it here?

Are we so uncivil and debased here that we feel empowered to insult by simple distance?

This is what I propose: Every member on AAAC should make their real name available and represent themselves on here as the real people they are behind the masks. It wouldn't stop all the stupidity, but it would go some distance to tidying things up.

It's simple, really; if you don't want me to say something upsetting about you, refrain from saying something upsetting about me. And if you feel compelled to say something anyway, back it up as your real-world self.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> Are we so uncivil and debased here that we feel empowered to insult by simple distance?


You are.

------------------


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## jklu (May 22, 2005)

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you were focusing solely on the pedaerastic aspect of "catamite". The remark is still tasteless. As for being a response to gmac's ad hominem comments, why not just tell him to shut up and/or ignore him? It's clear his opinions had hardly any support in these threads; I agree that he had no basis for calling that story a fabrication; but he was hardly going to change his mind after receiving your insults. Sometimes, in the face of inanity one must simply walk away. Your crude responses to his posts only reflect poorly on you, and that's a shame, because you probably are rather pleasant outside of cyberspace. That's all for me.


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## whnay. (Dec 30, 2004)

In other words flatsix, don't feed the damn troll.

___________

"My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income." 
~Errol Flynn


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

I'll just correct you gentlemen in one small aspect.

FlatSix started the ad hom attacks with this:

"Sheesh, next time I'll do my posting in cartoon form. You've never been a particularly bright fellow but this is worse than normal."

Actually quite jolly compared to what came later, wouldn't you agree?

All I had said was that his story seemed unlikely - when it was in fact a total crock, something I only pointed out to him after he took a shot at me.

------------------


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Why do I feel someone is going to start a thread demanding an apology for me at some point?


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Wayfarer_
> 
> Why do I feel someone is going to start a thread demanding an apology for me at some point?


I don't need an apology for you Wayfarer.

An explanation might be nice though.....

------------------


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> Only one theme? I see at least two:
> 
> ...


----------



## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not bad for May 2!

------------------


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

*gmac*,

You bob and weave like a young Ali but I'm still waiting for you to either deliver the requested apology or to unmask yourself.

I suppose I am going to wait a long time. Perhaps when you return from your imaginary trip to Italy in your imaginary D&G shirt complete with cufflinks.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Maybe it's time for Malinda to lock this thread. It has gone so far off from LS400's original posting.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by gmac_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was jesting at the OP:

Warmest regards


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

Seriously, people on this thread need to take a deep breath. Perhaps this enlightening video about race relations will help:






"Where's my nut?"


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

I was joking too. When you wrote that somebody would be asking for an apology _for _you (as opposed to _from _you) I thought it would be a clever play on words on my part to ask for an explanation _for _you.

It seems I was wrong.....

------------------


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Obvious crap but Karl wanted to read it again so here it is...



> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> Now, observe as I tie both threads into a single knot!
> 
> ...


------------------


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

C'mon Karl, you not going to stick up for your buddy's story?

Were you convinced by his stories about my family too?

If so, I have a bridge you may be interested in purchasing....

------------------


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I feel uneducated. I had to look up "catamite."


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> I feel uneducated. I had to look up "catamite."


So did I!

I kind of wish I hadn't.........

You can't say you don't learn new things on the Interchange though!

------------------


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

True, but - egad!!!

At least you weren't called that in person. (However, that could have been embarrassing for me if I was called that and was the only one in the room that did not know what it meant.)


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## gmac (Aug 13, 2005)

Sticks and stones Forsberg, sticks and stones.....

I don't really mind - in these types of fora if you live by the sword you can expect to die by the sword. And I don't think either of my parents read AAAC so they never have to know that some chump is insulting them here.

My newfound knowledge about the word catamite is unlikley to be useful to me but one never knows.....

------------------


----------

