# Favorite sub-$200 scotch?



## tocqueville

I want to buy my father-in-law a great bottle of hootch for his 80th. I'm ruling out Johnny Walker stuff because he already has all that. I'm also ruling out smokey scotches like Laphroig or Lagavulin because he doesn't like it much.

Price limit: $200

Your favorites?


----------



## jasonbourne

Scotch is good, but how about a nice American made bourbon? Pappy Van Winkle has a 20 and 23 year old single barrel that is divine. both are under 200, but not much.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

I bought my FIL some nice bourbon for his birthday. He could afford anything he wanted but just drank Old Crow for some reason.

After he died I found it in his bar, still unopened, after over five years.

I'm glad I took him out to dinner too!!


----------



## tocqueville

jasonbourne said:


> Scotch is good, but how about a nice American made bourbon? Pappy Van Winkle has a 20 and 23 year old single barrel that is divine. both are under 200, but not much.


Why not? Because I've already given him Pappy 20 and 23! I love that stuff. I used to give him exclusively American booze since he can get it where he lives, in Chile, where the best they get is Jack Daniels and lower end J. Beam and Wild Turkey. At some point, though, when he discovered a Dalwhinnie in my liquor cabinet, he tasted it and wondered why I had been holding out on him. He prefers single malt Scotch. So it goes. Interestingly, there aren't any single malts on the Chilean market, just blends like Chivas and Johnny Walker. The Dalwhinnie was a revelation. Since then I've picked up some basics for him like Glenlivet 12 and Macallan 10. They were hits.

By the way, other than the Pappy 20, 23, which are too expensive for me to purchase for my own consumption, these are my favorite whiskeys by far:

And this:

I think that straight rye has much more potential than bourbon, which can never escape that same basic bourbon flavor. The Pappy and the Old Portrero demonstrate what can be done with rye, and I hope more labels start to experiment with it. I can easily see more aged single malt ryes coming on to the market and making us all forget about Scotland.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars

Buy him a bottle of Lagavulin and tell him to get used to the good stuff!:icon_smile_big:

Kidding aside, I like the following fairly special bottles for something like this:

*Auchentoshan 17 Year Old Bordeaux Finish*--it's a limited run, so it might be difficult to find, but its uniqueness makes it all the better as a gift. It's made a little on the sweeter side by the Bordeaux finish, but not overpoweringly so, and it also has a little hint of oak in it. Adding a drop or two (literally) of water in this one, REALLY opens it up and gives you an incredible away of aromas and tastes. It can be found for ~$125-150 I believe. And if your father in law enjoys smoking a pipe, I've found this malt to be particularly well-suited for it.

*Bruichladdich Black Art 2*-- This is a big, bold malt. Unbelievable amounts of flavor that are almost surprisingly easy to pick out. The nose is pretty fruity with a hint of woodiness, and it has a deep, rich color. It's got an almost wine-like quality to the fruit flavors on the palate, but definitely still tastes like a heavy malt. To that effect, it does have some smokiness to it, but not at the level of a Laphroaig or Lagavulin, and the sweetness really balances it out superbly. A finger of water is definitely recommended unless you really love the burn. I remember this going for under $200, and definitely over $100, but can't remember exactly what I paid.

*Glenfarclas 25*-- A chocolately, fruity, and nutty malt, it has a smokey quality, but most of that does not really feel peaty. It's a little hard to describe, but the taste is large and in charge, and really delightful. Definitely under $150 on this one.

*Scott's Selection Bunnahabhain 1977*-- This one is just a tad over $200 if memory serves, but worth every penny (and again a rare-er, unique malt well-suited for a gift). It's an Islay, but the peat smokiness is pretty light in this one. Wood and chocolate are the two primary words I would use to describe the nose and palate of this malt. You almost get kind of a cedar closet or wine cellar smell on the nose, and those wood notes are very present on the palate, along with a creamy chocolatey taste. A touch of spice as well. A really pleasant, milder Islay malt in my opinion. I have friends who can't stand my usual heavy-peat malts, and they really enjoy this one.

Hope that gives you some ideas!


----------



## tocqueville

Thanks for the recommendations! I haven't heard of any of those labels, so I'm pleased to have something new to consider.

Have you heard anything about the Glenfiddich Snow Phoenix? Yes, it's a blend, but it seems special, and a friend of mine was raving about it. Which also means I know where to get it.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars

tocqueville said:


> Thanks for the recommendations! I haven't heard of any of those labels, so I'm pleased to have something new to consider.
> 
> Have you heard anything about the Glenfiddich Snow Phoenix? Yes, it's a blend, but it seems special, and a friend of mine was raving about it. Which also means I know where to get it.


I don't really know much about it. I rarely find a blend that I like as much as a single malt, so I'm not well-versed in the blends (though if you like peaty scotches, Hogshead is a good blend of primarily Islay malts).


----------



## Bjorn

I would suggest trying:

Highland park, 15 or 18 yo
Great all round whisky which has a (slight) smoky finish, but not nearly as smoky as Lagavulin. Dalwhinnie also has a touch of smoke. 

Theres Aberlour which has a lot of honey an fruit. 

The best single malt whisky of the non smokey kind I've had is Dallas Dhu. 

Of course, if you get started on Islay smokey whiskies, there's no going back.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars

tocqueville said:


> Thanks for the recommendations! I haven't heard of any of those labels, so I'm pleased to have something new to consider.
> 
> Have you heard anything about the Glenfiddich Snow Phoenix? Yes, it's a blend, but it seems special, and a friend of mine was raving about it. Which also means I know where to get it.


By the way, when I say that some of those malts I suggested are "rare-er," I don't mean to imply that they will necessarily be difficult to find. For example, I checked a local Chicago store and was able to find all four bottles. You can probably also find all of them from online purveyors, sometimes even cheaper than you would find at retail locations.


----------



## pleasehelp

I don't mean to go off-topic, but where have you found Pappy 23 for under $200? I think the last bottle I bought cost me about $270. 

All the Pappys are a pain to find in Manhattan...

One interesting idea on the scotch might be to buy a barrel-strength or unfiltered scotch. The only downside is that the bottles tend to be fairly ugly so you might feel strange giving it as a gift, but some of them are fantastic.


----------



## tocqueville

I havn't found a Pappy 23 for under $200, which reminds me that I was mistaken. I have never owned a 23 or given one to my FIL, but I've tasted it. The Pappys are hard to find, and my local guy no longer carries it. That's a real shame.

I ended up buying the Snow Phoenix for the present. I might even have bought the last bottle in DC. After receiving a ton of recommendations for single malts, I realized that there was no way I could decide among them since I'm not in a position to try any of them. But the Snow Phoenix at least is guaranteed to be "special," and I'm sure it will please. As for your recommendations, I hope to work my way slowly down the list, only for my own pleasure.


----------



## pleasehelp

tocqueville said:


> I havn't found a Pappy 23 for under $200, which reminds me that I was mistaken. I have never owned a 23 or given one to my FIL, but I've tasted it. The Pappys are hard to find, and my local guy no longer carries it. That's a real shame.
> 
> I ended up buying the Snow Phoenix for the present. I might even have bought the last bottle in DC. After receiving a ton of recommendations for single malts, I realized that there was no way I could decide among them since I'm not in a position to try any of them. But the Snow Phoenix at least is guaranteed to be "special," and I'm sure it will please. As for your recommendations, I hope to work my way slowly down the list, only for my own pleasure.


Did he crack open the Snow Phoenix with you? What did you think? I've never had it or heard of it, and I'm always interested in new ideas.

For blends, I normally go with stuff by Compass Box (Spice Tree and Peat Monster). Ridiculous names but very tasty. Much less expensive than $200.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars

pleasehelp said:


> Did he crack open the Snow Phoenix with you? What did you think? I've never had it or heard of it, and I'm always interested in new ideas.
> 
> For blends, I normally go with stuff by Compass Box (Spice Tree and Peat Monster). Ridiculous names but very tasty. Much less expensive than $200.


Totally forgot about the Peat Monster. That is another of the few blends I enjoy. Though it is a vatted malt and not really a "blended" whisky in the primary usage of the term.


----------



## pleasehelp

Scotch&Cigars said:


> Totally forgot about the Peat Monster. That is another of the few blends I enjoy. Though it is a vatted malt and not really a "blended" whisky in the primary usage of the term.


Could you please explain the difference to me (or direct me somewhere I can read about it)? I'm pretty uneducated about booze generally - I just know what I like to drink.

Glad to see another Peat Monster fan. I just wish they would change the name. I feel silly when I ask for it, particularly if the store hasn't heard of it before. Spice Tree (same company) is another nice one.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars

pleasehelp said:


> Could you please explain the difference to me (or direct me somewhere I can read about it)? I'm pretty uneducated about booze generally - I just know what I like to drink.
> 
> Glad to see another Peat Monster fan. I just wish they would change the name. I feel silly when I ask for it, particularly if the store hasn't heard of it before. Spice Tree (same company) is another nice one.


A vatted malt (at least that's what they used to call it; now called "blended malt") is comprised of several different single malts from various distilleries.

A blended scotch contains both malt and grain whiskies. This includes brands like Johnny Walker, Dewars, etc...

I prefer malts, so my choices are either single malts, or vatted malts (like Hogs Head or Peat Monster).


----------



## tocqueville

I havn't had the pleasure of trying the Snow Phoenix. The gift will be transported to my father in law; I won't be present at its opening. I can only hope that he doesn't drink it all before I have the opportunity to taste it in his home.

I was thinking about buying a bottle for myself since I'm so curious about it, but I got the last bottle this particular store had. Based on a few calls I made in DC and VA, there's not much of the stuff left anywhere.

According to a very credible source, the Snow Phoenix is technically a single malt and not a blend, since every drop that went into the mix was made by the same distillery and was a single malt. It doesn't matter, so the argument goes, how many different barrels Glenfiddish emptied to concoct the brew. Here's the article I'm citing:
https://www.joshuaelondon.com/Most_recent_article.html

I can vouch for the author. When it comes to scotch, the man knows his stuff.


----------



## Scotch&Cigars

tocqueville said:


> According to a very credible source, the Snow Phoenix is technically a single malt and not a blend, since every drop that went into the mix was made by the same distillery and was a single malt. It doesn't matter, so the argument goes, how many different barrels Glenfiddish emptied to concoct the brew. Here's the article I'm citing:
> https://www.joshuaelondon.com/Most_recent_article.html
> 
> I can vouch for the author. When it comes to scotch, the man knows his stuff.


He is correct. I assumed it was a blend because you had said so. Although technically the author speaks slightly too broadly: on the unlikely occasion that a malt whisky is mixed with a grain whisky that is produced by the same distillery (I can't imagine this has happened much, if at all), it would not be a single malt, rather a blended scotch whisky despite the fact that both are produced by the same distillery.


----------



## Padme

My dad alway drank Chivas, but I don't know how good that is anymore. I know he liked the aged one the best, Chivas Regal or Chivas Gold maybe. 

I always fixed a scotch for him and overfilled it accidently, so I know the Chivas Regal is pretty good (He knew, and just smiled.). But I haven't kept up with scotches in years.


----------



## fishertw

For my retirement from the university, my senior staff gave me a bottle of Glenmorangie Signet, which, if I recall correctly is just under your $200 threshold. It is a wonderful Scotch and I was overwhelmed by their generosity. Since my wife and I are leaving on Wednesday on a two week retirement trip to Scotland, it was a very thoughtful act on their part.
Thanks,Tom


----------



## Scotch&Cigars

fishertw said:


> For my retirement from the university, my senior staff gave me a bottle of Glenmorangie Signet, which, if I recall correctly is just under your $200 threshold. It is a wonderful Scotch and I was overwhelmed by their generosity. Since my wife and I are leaving on Wednesday on a two week retirement trip to Scotland, it was a very thoughtful act on their part.
> Thanks,Tom


That is a fine, fine whisky. Enjoy it in good health and happiness, and congratulations on your retirement!


----------



## yen157

Bjorn said:


> I would suggest trying:
> Highland park, 15 or 18 yo
> Great all round whisky which has a (slight) smoky finish, but not nearly as smoky as Lagavulin. Dalwhinnie also has a touch of smoke.


Bjorn, I like your picks. I'm an Islay guy myself, but when I want to change it up and stick with Scotch I think Highland Park 18 and Dalwinnie (it's a 15yr you see around). They are lovely whiskys.


----------



## Hitch

Bjorn said:


> I would suggest trying:
> 
> Highland park, 15 or 18 yo
> Great all round whisky which has a (slight) smoky finish, but not nearly as smoky as Lagavulin. Dalwhinnie also has a touch of smoke.
> 
> Theres Aberlour which has a lot of honey an fruit.
> 
> The best single malt whisky of the non smokey kind I've had is Dallas Dhu.
> *
> Of course, if you get started on Islay smokey whiskies, there's no going back*.


Aye...


----------



## Bjorn

yen157 said:


> Bjorn, I like your picks. I'm an Islay guy myself, but when I want to change it up and stick with Scotch I think Highland Park 18 and Dalwinnie (it's a 15yr you see around). They are lovely whiskys.


I tried the new only-for-travel Highland Park Drakkar offering, and it was very good. A must have if you pass an airport. $50 tax free...


----------



## Balfour

Scotch&Cigars said:


> Buy him a bottle of Lagavulin and tell him to get used to the good stuff!:icon_smile_big:


+1: Lagavulin is one of my favourites.

If you want to try him out on an Islay malt, but with a slightly softer, more complex dimension to it, try Ardbeg. It will still be peaty, but not quite as overpowering as some find Lagavulin or Talisker. Alternatively try Lagavulin slightly diluted with plain water.

But for a safer bet, it is hard to fault an 18 year old Macallan: this should be in budget: https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-3523.aspx.


----------



## Bjorn

Balfour said:


> +1: Lagavulin is one of my favourites.
> 
> If you want to try him out on an Islay malt, but with a slightly softer, more complex dimension to it, try Ardbeg. It will still be peaty, but not quite as overpowering as some find Lagavulin or Talisker. Alternatively try Lagavulin slightly diluted with plain water.
> 
> But for a safer bet, it is hard to fault an 18 year old Macallan: this should be in budget: https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-3523.aspx.


Ardbeg is stronger flavoured with more smoke than those two, IMO.


----------



## Balfour

Bjorn said:


> Ardbeg is stronger flavoured with more smoke than those two, IMO.


Interesting - I wouldn't claim by any stretch of the imagination to be a connoisseur, but I find Ardbeg to be more delicate and softer than Lagavulin (although everything's relative - these both of course pack a punch). Lagavulin is definitely my favourite, and I might reach for Ardbeg when others might reach for a speyside.


----------



## zzdocxx

I'm not much of a drinker, but I did find online a couple of years ago some lists which grouped the different single malt scotches by flavor characteristics.

I could post them if anyone is interested.


----------



## bernoulli

Lagavullin is indeed excellent. Just had a OrJura night with the boys (OrJura = orgy of Jura, we tasted the four different kinds of Jura). Can't beat Jura in all its presentations for its bang for the buck. And for all the richness of more expensive scotches I keep coming back to the simple Jura 10-year - 28,10 Euros at Charles de Gaulle!


----------



## Balfour

zzdocxx said:


> I'm not much of a drinker, but I did find online a couple of years ago some lists which grouped the different single malt scotches by flavor characteristics.
> 
> I could post them if anyone is interested.


My taste in whisky is fairly established (and fairly rarely indulged), but I'm sure it would be of interest to those reading this thread to see the tasting notes you mention.


----------



## zzdocxx

*Classification of Single Malt Whiskies*

Cluster A ( Full-Bodied, Medium-Sweet, Pronounced Sherry with Fruity, Spicy, Malty Notes and Nutty, Smoky Hints): Balmenach, Dailuaine, Dalmore, Glendronach, Macallan, Mortlach, Royal Lochnagar;

Cluster B ( Medium-Bodied, Medium-Sweet, with Nutty, Malty, Floral, Honey and Fruity Notes): Aberfeldy, Aberlour, Ben Nevis, Benrinnes, Benromach, Blair Athol, Cragganmore, Edradour, Glenfarclas, Glenturret, Knockando, Longmorn, Scapa, Strathisla;

Cluster C (Medium-Bodied, Medium-Sweet, with Fruity, Floral, Honey, Malty Notes and Spicy Hints ): Balvenie, Benriach, Dalwhinnie, Glendullan, Glen Elgin, Glenlivet, Glen Ord, Linkwood, Royal Brackla;

Cluster D (Light, Medium-Sweet, Low or No Peat, with Fruity, Floral, Malty Notes and Nutty Hints ): An Cnoc, Auchentoshan, Aultmore, Cardhu, Glengoyne, Glen Grant, Mannochmore, Speyside, Tamdhu, Tobermory;

Cluster E (Light, Medium-Sweet, Low Peat, with Floral, Malty Notes and Fruity, Spicy, Honey Hints ): Bladnoch, Bunnahabhain, Glenallachie, Glenkinchie, Glenlossie, Glen Moray, Inchgower, Inchmurrin, Tomintoul;

Cluster F (Medium-Bodied, Medium-Sweet, Low Peat, Malty Notes and Sherry, Honey, Spicy Hints ): Ardmore, Auchroisk, Bushmills, Deanston, Glen Deveron, Glen Keith, Glenrothes, Old Fettercairn, Tomatin, Tormore, Tullibardine;

Cluster G (Medium-Bodied, Sweet, Low Peat and Floral Notes ): Arran, Dufftown, Glenfiddich, Glen Spey, Miltonduff, Speyburn;

Cluster H (Medium-Bodied, Medium-Sweet, with Smoky, Fruity, Spicy Notes and Floral, Nutty Hints ): Balblair, Craigellachie, Glen Garioch, Glenmorangie, Oban, Old Pulteney, Strathmill, Tamnavulin, Teaninch;

Cluster I (Medium-Light, Dry, with Smoky, Spicy, Honey Notes and Nutty, Floral Hints): Bowmore, Bruichladdich, Glen Scotia, Highland Park, Isle of Jura, Springbank;

Cluster J (Full-Bodied, Dry, Pungent, Peaty and Medicinal, with Spicy, Feinty Notes): Ardbeg, Caol Ila, Clynelish, Lagavulin, Laphroaig, Talisker.

*Similar Style & Taste Scotch Whisky List:*

Single Malt Whisky Similar Whiskies List 1:
An Cnoc
Arran
Auchentoshan
Bladnoch
Littlemill
Loch Lomond
St Magdalene

Single Malt Whisky Similar Whiskies List 2:
Allt-a-Bhainne
Benriach
Bushmills (Irish Whiskey)
Caperdonich
Cardhu
Glen Moray
Glen Ord
Glenfiddich
Glengoyne
Glenkinchie
Glenmorangie
Jameson (Irish Whiskey)
Rosebank

Single Malt Whisky Similar Whiskies List 3:
Aberfeldy
Balvenie
Bells
Ben Nevis
Benromach
Bunnahabhain
Cragganmore
Dalwhinnie
Dewars
Edradour
Glen Garioch
Glen Grant
Glenlivet
Johnnie Walker
Linkwood
Longmorn
Royal Lochnagar
Whyte & Mackay

Single Malt Whisky Similar Whiskies List 4:
Aberlour
Aultmore
Balblair
Clan Campbell
Dailuaine
Dallas Dhu
Dalmore
Famous Grouse
Glendronach
Glenfarclas
Glenrothes
Isle of Jura
Macallan
Mortlach

Single Malt Whisky Similar Whiskies List 5:
Ardmore
Benrinnes
Bowmore
Brora
Bruichladdich
Caol Ila
Clynelish
Highland Park
Oban
Springbank

Single Malt Whisky Similar Whiskies List 6:
Ardbeg
Lagavulin
Laphroaig
Longrow
Port Ellen
Talisker


----------

