# The Economics of Dating



## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

From today's NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/fashion/23whopays.html?_r=1&ref=fashion&oref=slogin

Would it bother you if your girlfriend made more money than you?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

...Not at all! I spent the first 26 years of my life hoping to hook up with a woman that made substantially more than I did (winks)...it never happened! However, I did meet a woman who, as a human being, was and is substantially more than I am...and my life has been so much better for that. Regarding the referenced article, my guess is the problem is more in the minds of the women involved, than it is a problem from the perspectiive of the men they are dating.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I dated a girl in my mid-20s that made considerably more than I did at the time. I had no problems with it and have to say if my wife suddenly quadrupled her income and asked me if I wanted to quit working, I would jump at the chance. I would not stop working, of course, but I would be free to develop some revenue streams from my actual interests vs. wearing tightly the golden handcuffs I have had on for years.

As an aside, this article makes a good argument that affirmative action is obviously needed for the current 20 something generation...for the men.



> Professor Beveridge said the gap is largely driven by a gulf in education: 53 percent of women employed full time in their 20s were college graduates, compared with 38 percent of men. Women are also more likely to have graduate degrees. "They have more of everything," Professor Beveridge said.


Obviously this generation of men is being unfairly excluded from educational and employment opportunities. Forty plus years of PC and militant gender feminism in academia is finally reaping the results desired. And the 20 something female recipients? Well, per the article, they are less than happy dating men their age and some of the interviewed certainly seem conflicted about paying for things. I guess they are finding out it is rare to actually have your cake and eat it too.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

It certainly doesn't bother my husband. It's gone back and forth since we've been married and I currently make about 25% more. 

However, I can see the issue involved in DATING, when people take turns paying for dinners out, rather than putting money into one shared account. 

The women in the article seem to be expressing disappointment in slackerism and lack of ambition. My husband and I both work hard, but he is in a less-lucrative line of work. He plans to teach when he leaves this career field and will make about the same amount, which is fine with me, as long as he's happy and not a big grinchface every day because he hates his job.

Wayfarer, you pulled this quote:
"53 percent of women employed full time in their 20s were college graduates, compared with 38 percent of men."

But that's deceptive. There are a lot of women who are NOT employed full-time. There are many women who are at home raising children or raising children and working part-time. But most men are not primary caregivers so work full-time.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

VS said:


> Wayfarer, you pulled this quote:
> "53 percent of women employed full time in their 20s were college graduates, compared with 38 percent of men."
> 
> But that's deceptive. There are a lot of women who are NOT employed full-time. There are many women who are at home raising children or raising children and working part-time. But most men are not primary caregivers so work full-time.


VS: I agree, confounding factors for sure. Of course, the way to argue it from one perspective is that once again, these women are given choices men lack. Why can the man not stay home and raise children? Then again, from another perspective one would argue that these women are merely still internalizing the "women as chattel" mentality of the dominant male patriarchy and that gender feminism must accelerate its efforts. Yet another way, would be the PC method, and merely react to the numbers presented, not bothering to pay attention to the sample universe.

No matter how one slices it though, what is true on a national basis, is that more women get undergrad, graduate, and professional degrees i.e. law school, medical school, b-school, than men these days. When the situation was reversed, that was taken as _prima facie_ evidence of the domination of the male hegemony. I am of course distressed, yet not puzzled, that this logic does not flow both ways. I guess being married to an engineer I just do not pay the attention I should to the propaganda of gender defined roles and professions.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> VS: I agree, confounding factors for sure. Of course, the way to argue it from one perspective is that once again, these women are given choices men lack. Why can the man not stay home and raise children? Then again, from another perspective one would argue that these women are merely still internalizing the "women as chattel" mentality of the dominant male patriarchy and that gender feminism must accelerate its efforts. Yet another way, would be the PC method, and merely react to the numbers presented, not bothering to pay attention to the sample universe.
> 
> No matter how one slices it though, what is true on a national basis, is that more women get undergrad, graduate, and professional degrees i.e. law school, medical school, b-school, than men these days. When the situation was reversed, that was taken as _prima facie_ evidence of the domination of the male hegemony. I am of course distressed, yet not puzzled, that this logic does not flow both ways. I guess being married to an engineer I just do not pay the attention I should to the propaganda of gender defined roles and professions.


Well, my father was a stay-at-home dad, so I do think men can stay home, but there are old cultural expectations which both men and women buy into. How many men WANT to watch children full time?

Why aren't men getting more degrees, or an equal amount? Could part of this be due to their own decisions or class/cultural expectations which lead them to marry and start a family earlier (which they feel compelled to support with full-time work instead of going to grad school, assuming they want to go to grad school?)

With the arrival of an information-based economy, too, many higher-paying jobs are not physical in nature AND require higher education. 60 years ago, women were not building cars or mining coal or fighting fires or working on oil rigs; these jobs paid relatively well for non-college grads but women were not welcome at them.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

VS said:


> Why aren't men getting more degrees, or an equal amount? Could part of this be due to their own decisions or class/cultural expectations which lead them to marry and start a family earlier (which they feel compelled to support with full-time work instead of going to grad school, assuming they want to go to grad school?)
> 
> *With the arrival of an information-based economy, too, many higher-paying jobs are not physical in nature AND require higher education. *60 years ago, women were not building cars or mining coal or fighting fires or working on oil rigs; these jobs paid relatively well for non-college grads but women were not welcome at them.


All more reasons that the 20-something generation males need affirmative action, as they are obviously being squeezed out of the good jobs. The bolded part explains it best. You are 100% on target VS.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Heck no! I'd even be a stay at home dad if my (future) wife made enough money.

Brian


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## Gradstudent78 (May 7, 2003)

medwards said:


> From today's NY Times:
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/fashion/23whopays.html?_r=1&ref=fashion&oref=slogin
> 
> Would it bother you if your girlfriend made more money than you?


It wouldn't bother me as long as she understood that when we go out I'd have to do things that I could afford to do.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Gradstudent78 said:


> It wouldn't bother me as long as she understood that when we go out I'd have to do things that I could afford to do.


Why could she not pay? As the article stated, at least some of these women want to do more upscale, trendy type things on dates. By limiting the price of things you would do, you have effectively negated the fact she makes more than you. Capping the entertainment costs is basically limiting her to *your* income.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

No,not all.In fact Robin And I are in basically in the same boat money-wise.She works Full Time and I work Part Time(with my schedule changing sometimes).I told her at one time that I make 8.00 an hour but she kept it mum on how much she's making,she'll never tell me.

Why should I feel intimidated? Me,I'm pretty content on how much I come home with(between 100.00-200.00 a week(payday Every Thursday for me).It may not be enough to live on but for me it's considered "fun money".Money for expenses like food,shelter,luxury items and such.


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## Gradstudent78 (May 7, 2003)

Wayfarer said:


> Why could she not pay? As the article stated, at least some of these women want to do more upscale, trendy type things on dates. By limiting the price of things you would do, you have effectively negated the fact she makes more than you. Capping the entertainment costs is basically limiting her to *your* income.


Well if she paid, then I could afford it. I'm not capping the entertainment costs, I'm just capping the amount that I'm able to pay for it. However, I wouldn't feel comfortable having someone pay for me the majority of the time unless we were in a very serious relationship or married.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Howard said:


> Me,I'm pretty content on how much I come home with(between 100.00-200.00 an hour(


$100-200 an hour? Okay, so not a hedge fund manager at that wage.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Gradstudent78 said:


> Well if she paid, then I could afford it. I'm not capping the entertainment costs, I'm just capping the amount that I'm able to pay for it. However, I wouldn't feel comfortable having someone pay for me the majority of the time unless we were in a very serious relationship or married.


You made a pretty firm statement that the two of you could only do things you could afford to do. That is a pretty clear cap to costs to me. As you rightly point out though, which I figure was just assumed, if she paid for it, you could afford the cost of $0.00.

Interesting that you just inferred the old fashioned gender roles these women are not happy with, or at least ambivalent about. I think this is a very interesting topic and shows how even very young adults are pretty mixed about things in regards to money and gender roles.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> All more reasons that the 20-something generation males need affirmative action, as they are obviously being squeezed out of the good jobs. The bolded part explains it best. You are 100% on target VS.


But why would they require affirmative action?

There is no gender selection quota on campuses, that I know of.

Surely you're not saying men aren't capable of earning good grades or doing well on, say, the GMAT, are you? 

If your wife is an engineer you know that engineering is dominated by men and pays well.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

my last GF made about 1.5 times what I make...but still I'd say probably 80% of the time I ended up paying...and she always bought me crappy gifts too...

I dunno...I think the guy probably should pay more often...but dating is kind of an expensive thing...you gotta think dinner at a mid level restaurant is gonna be around $100, a fancy restaurant is easily going to run you $300, then a movie is like $40 or $50 by the time you buy sodas and candy and crap, or if you go to a game of a show, it's going to be another couple hundred...then if it's a daytime date you know shopping will be involved at some point, and then it's hold on to your wallet!!!


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

wait...what??? Howard makes $200 an hour...damn...I've gotta get me a job in the fast paced lucrative field of shopping cart retrieval...psssht...no wonder he's the pimp of the box...


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Howard said:


> No,not all.In fact Robin And I are in basically in the same boat money-wise.She works Full Time and I work Part Time(with my schedule changing sometimes).I told her at one time that I make 8.00 an hour but she kept it mum on how much she's making,she'll never tell me.
> 
> Why should I feel intimidated? Me,I'm pretty content on how much I come home with(between 100.00-200.00 an hour(payday Every Thursday for me).It may not be enough to live on but for me it's considered "fun money".Money for expenses like food,shelter,luxury items and such.


I assume you meant you take home between $100-$200 every week? Do you still live w/ your parents? Just trying to figure it all out...

Brian


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> my last GF made about 1.5 times what I make...but still I'd say probably 80% of the time I ended up paying...and she always bought me crappy gifts too...
> 
> I dunno...I think the guy probably should pay more often...but dating is kind of an expensive thing...you gotta think dinner at a mid level restaurant is gonna be around $100, a fancy restaurant is easily going to run you $300, then a movie is like $40 or $50 by the time you buy sodas and candy and crap, or if you go to a game of a show, it's going to be another couple hundred...then if it's a daytime date you know shopping will be involved at some point, and then it's hold on to your wallet!!!


Maybe you should be hanging at poetry readings with a black turtleneck and a Ginsberg anthology and taking bohemian girls out for coffee. It's a lot cheaper.

See, if you're upping the stakes by taking casual dates out for $300 dinners, if you propose you're going to have to do it in Paris, and what's left for your tenth anniversary, Mars?

On my birthday my husband made me Caesar salad, braised veal and petit potatoes, and then we threw a DVD on. Total cost, since I did the grocery shopping... $25.

Learn to cook, bro.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

VS said:


> Learn to cook, bro.


oh I can...but...I only cook for the really special dates...:icon_smile_big:

seriously though...I'd love to know where all these down-to-Earth girls are who one could just take on a date for coffee or whatever and who don't turn into posessive demanding psychos after 3 months...I guess I'll have to try to find one of those poetry readings one of these days...


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> oh I can...but...I only cook for the really special dates...:icon_smile_big:
> 
> seriously though...I'd love to know where all these down-to-Earth girls are who one could just take on a date for coffee or whatever and who don't turn into posessive demanding psychos after 3 months...I guess I'll have to try to find one of those poetry readings one of these days...


I met a guy with a black turtleneck and a Ginsberg anthology at a regular club... he stood out, know what I'm sayin'.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

VS said:


> However, I can see the issue involved in DATING, when people take turns paying for dinners out,


Take turns paying???


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

My wife made a lot more money than I did or do at the time we met, which didn't bother me--she bought me some nice clothes during that short and happy period. Shortly after our marriage, her business tanked. She went from making about twice as much as I was to half as much. It has been a hassle, but in some ways it made me feel like more of man. If her father ever dies, which possibility I very much doubt, the way the old boy goes on and on (and bravo for him!), she will probably again be the wealthier partner in the marriage, which I wouldn't mind although I don't think it's likely to happen. As I remarked to her father the other night, I firmly expect he will deliver a eulogy at my funeral!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> $100-200 an hour? Okay, so not a hedge fund manager at that wage.


Sorry Wayfarer,I had to edit it,I meant 100-200 dollars a week.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> wait...what??? Howard makes $200 an hour...damn...I've gotta get me a job in the fast paced lucrative field of shopping cart retrieval...psssht...no wonder he's the pimp of the box...


No,Sorry Gabba,I meant 100-200 dollars a week,not an hour.I had to edit what I had written.Didn't realize what I had typed till I saw it this morning.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

vwguy said:


> I assume you meant you take home between $100-$200 every week? Do you still live w/ your parents? Just trying to figure it all out...
> 
> Brian


Yes VW,I meant 100-200 dollars a week.

Yes I still live wth My Parents and so does My Girlfriend.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

medwards said:


> From today's NY Times:
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/fashion/23whopays.html?_r=1&ref=fashion&oref=slogin
> 
> Would it bother you if your girlfriend made more money than you?


She does and I still pay for most things.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Howard said:


> Yes VW,I meant 100-200 dollars a week.
> 
> Yes I still live wth My Parents and so does My Girlfriend.


Your Girlfriend lives with your parents?


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> Your Girlfriend lives with your parents?


I'm wondering the same thing, hmm...

Brian


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## VC2000 (Feb 10, 2006)

I’ll throw myself into the fire here and admit that it has bothered me when I dated women that made more than me. I’d like to say that it was circumstantial.

It has happened twice: Once when I was in law school and again when I was starting my business.

When in law school, I dated a lawyer during my last year and when I was studying for the bar. At that point I was so burned out and I just wanted to get employed and move on. I admit that I was jealous of the expense account dinners and trips. I remember taking the train/bus/subway to meet her in NYC and noticing her first class ticket on the air shuttle, limo to the luxury hotel suite…. It wasn’t really her money that bothered me but I was just on the edge of getting all that for my years of work and I wanted it. Our relationship ended as a casualty of time as I was studying for the bar and she was chalking up the new associate required billable hours. 

The second time it happened I went from being the golden boy in a large national law firm on track to being the youngest partner to doing a business startup where I had to scramble to make payroll and other cost involved in the startup costs burn. Suddenly I went from having all the perks and a large disposal income to existing on savings without a salary and calculating nearly every minute how much capital I had to survive and build a business. I was dating a medical doctor at the time – her father and grandfather were doctors so she had never considered money. Suddenly I couldn’t afford the opera, dinners, and travel that we had been enjoying and I had been footing. She didn’t understand – she had never balanced a checkbook in her life I suddenly found out. Needless to say the relationship didn’t last. She never understood why I would give up a job at a law firm to do my own thing. Our differences beyond financial were to great for that to be the only reason for the relationship ending.

More recently as I sold my businesses and have enjoyed success in the venture capital field, I fortunately I haven’t encountered this issue. I dated briefly the granddaughter of a billionaire which I suppose applies as I noted that Forbes omitted me in the recent list of the 400. (Purely a mistake I'm sure) That relationship didn’t go anywhere because we didn’t have anything in common rather than for financial reasons.

I’d like to say dating someone with more than me today wouldn’t bother me. I’d like to think that I know that I have enough to be comfortable for the rest of my life and I am more interested in other things but who knows? Perhaps some primitive part of me that was raised in the traditional Midwest would have problems. For purely scientific reasons I’m willing to try. If someone would arrange a date with say Dylan Lauren I’ll report back the results. (That is my kind of a woman – she owns candy stores and has access to a major clothing designer line!)

On a more serious note I have struggled with how to handle my financial success when dating. After sorting through the gold diggers how do you handle dating someone when your incomes are different? For example when I wanted to attend an award/charitable event with my date who is a teacher how do I handle the cost for a dress that would probably be more than her monthly take home? I’ve tried giving her a credit card or prepaid card – she was uncomfortable, going with her made her self conscious and my time restrictions demands were a problem…arranging to have the bill sent to me was impossible because she didn’t know where she was going to buy the dress…I finally had my assistant give her money as if it was my oversight. (That didn’t work either) A headache but all in all a good problem to have.


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

Since this artical is about casual dating I don't think it really should be a big deal for either either the guy or the lady. However, the problem for men is that everyone knows that women generally date up and are expected to marry up. A woman may have no problem dating a guy who makes less then she, but rarely will she get serious about such a guy unless she is fairly certain that in the near future he will match or exceed her income. Mother nature and our society has established this pecking order for women to weed out the less then desireables. A man risks a lot of potential heartbreak if he falls for a woman who makes more then him. Furthermore well meaning friends and familiy of such a high earning woman will start to pester to her to find someone better.
Let's be honest. For many people, pairing up is based more on a business like mindset that what may actually be going on in their hearts.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> Your Girlfriend lives with your parents?


My Girlfriend lives with HER parents.sorry Wayfar,I didn't make it clear enough.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

vwguy said:


> I'm wondering the same thing, hmm...
> 
> Brian


No,She lives with Her parents.I wish she could live with me but the Problem is,not enough room in this house and my Parents would have to give me the house which I cannot afford the taxes.

So,the only solution is for us to get our own apartment.


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