# So, you are concerned about other's attire in a restaurant...



## LordSmoke

There are several threads around in which people argue about appropriate attire in a restaurant or about inappropriately attired patrons. My general feeling is that, while I appreciate nice attire, what other people wear at a nice restaurant really is none of my business. But, what do you think about this...

Today is our 32nd wedding anniversary, so I booked reservations for Mrs. Smoke and me at our favorite local fine-dining establishment. I wore a gray Donegal three-piece suit, blue shirt, George Neale blue-and-gold paisley tie, AE Harrisons in black. The wife wore her work clothes with a nice cardigan added. 

One can usually expect $100 per person there. Since my wife and I don't go out that much, we have a rule to not consider price on our anniversary outings. I mentioned the event in our online reservations, and we were pleased to be accommodated at a table normally seating four with a nice little flower arrangement. We settled in, made our wine selection and ordered our first course - cauliflower soup with toasted almond garnish for me, poached pear salad for the Mrs. As we were being served, I caught out of the corner of my eye the bus boy...


...setting up a high-chair at the seat next to me! Why would a place like this even have a high-chair? Sure enough, in comes a couple with an infant and an older woman. In fact, the kid was not terribly loud and disruptive, but what kind of people would be so inconsiderate to bring an infant to a high-end restaurant. The effect is sort of like having someone point a gun at you while you are trying to eat - they might not pull the trigger, but you can't really relax and enjoy your meal waiting for it to go off. I suppose the next time, we should just go to Chucky F'in Cheese or make reservations at some place with a Happy Meal. It would be a lot cheaper.


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## MarkY

I don't get it either, and I would have asked the manager to seat them elsewhere. I'll go put on a flame suit now.


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## MaxBuck

I'd have gone to the maitre d'hotel and advised him that, if he wanted the establishment to be paid for what I'd consumed so far, he'd find some other location in the restaurant to seat this family. Placing a (potentially) squalling infant adjacent a couple on a special occasion is execrable commercial practice.


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## Shaver

I despise children. 

Parents who inflict the misery of their vile offspring upon me are the bane of my life. These dim-witted breeders so proud of their *ahem* achievement and so inconsiderate as to allow these foolish little sprats to squeak and squeal when I am attempting to enjoy myself in a civilised manner. Gah! :mad2:


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## Langham

You miserable old buggers.


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## Howard

I do once in a while look at what others are wearing but it rarely bothers me.


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## MaxBuck

Shaver said:


> I despise children.
> 
> Parents who inflict the misery of their vile offspring upon me are the bane of my life. These dim-witted breeders so proud of their *ahem* achievement and so inconsiderate as to allow these foolish little sprats to squeak and squeal when I am attempting to enjoy myself in a civilised manner. Gah! :mad2:


If only your parents had shared your sentiments.

I kid! I kid! But you kind of set that one up on a tee for us ...


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## blue suede shoes

LordSmoke said:


> There are several threads around in which people argue about appropriate attire in a restaurant or about inappropriately attired patrons. My general feeling is that, while I appreciate nice attire, what other people wear at a nice restaurant really is none of my business. But, what do you think about this...
> 
> Today is our 32nd wedding anniversary, so I booked reservations for Mrs. Smoke and me at our favorite local fine-dining establishment. I wore a gray Donegal three-piece suit, blue shirt, George Neale blue-and-gold paisley tie, AE Harrisons in black. The wife wore her work clothes with a nice cardigan added.
> 
> One can usually expect $100 per person there. Since my wife and I don't go out that much, we have a rule to not consider price on our anniversary outings. I mentioned the event in our online reservations, and we were pleased to be accommodated at a table normally seating four with a nice little flower arrangement. We settled in, made our wine selection and ordered our first course - cauliflower soup with toasted almond garnish for me, poached pear salad for the Mrs. As we were being served, I caught out of the corner of my eye the bus boy...
> 
> ...setting up a high-chair at the seat next to me! Why would a place like this even have a high-chair? Sure enough, in comes a couple with an infant and an older woman. In fact, the kid was not terribly loud and disruptive, but what kind of people would be so inconsiderate to bring an infant to a high-end restaurant. The effect is sort of like having someone point a gun at you while you are trying to eat - they might not pull the trigger, but you can't really relax and enjoy your meal waiting for it to go off. I suppose the next time, we should just go to Chucky F'in Cheese or make reservations at some place with a Happy Meal. It would be a lot cheaper.


I have eaten at restaurants where the behavior of adults was so obnoxious, that if those adults were replaced with children in high chairs it would have been a great improvement.

If you are going to Chucky Cheese next time, I highly recommend karate lessons before you go. I have seen some videos of brawls in that place that would make you long for an upscale restaurant with a child in a high chair next to you.


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## eagle2250

LOL. A week ago, the wife and I had the distinct pleasure of spending a special day with our youngest grandson (9 years old, going on 30!). The day was his to orchestrate as he pleased. We ended up attending a premier showing (in our local, at least) of the new Hobbit movie and then dined at the 'world class' restaurant of his choice...McDonalds; the wife dined on a cardboard hamburger, the grandson on a double quarter pounder, with cheese and I seized the opportunity to enjoy two McRib Sandwiches (while they are still available!). Yes the quality of the food was questionable (except for the McRibs, which were absolutely wonderful), but the company at our table couldn't have been better and the chaotically inclined patrons of the establishment, surrounding us, simply added to the festive nature of the occasion! Life is too short...grab all of it that you can, while you still can. As that wise fellow Richard Carlson wrote years ago, "don't sweat the small stuff!"


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## drlivingston

I agree with eagle... to an extent. There are meals where chaos is expected and actually welcomed as part of the ambiance. However, there are special meals that should be afforded a modicum of civility. Unfortunately, not everyone celebrates these special events on the same day. One of my favorite restaurants is Victoria and Alberts. The wife and I make a point of going there when we visit Disney. It is wonderful stress relief from the youth bombardment that is the very definition of Disney. Yes, they are on Disney property and no, they do not allow children in the dining room. Glorious!! And do not come underdressed! That is another bonus for people who actually like to look nice at a meal. From their website regarding dress code: "Jeans, shorts, capri pants, sandals, flip-flops or tennis shoes are not permitted." Gotta love it!


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## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> LOL. A week ago, the wife and I had the distinct pleasure of spending a special day with our youngest grandson (9 years old, going on 30!). The day was his to orchestrate as he pleased. We ended up attending a premier showing (in our local, at least) of the new Hobbit movie and then dined at the 'world class' restaurant of his choice...McDonalds; the wife dined on a cardboard hamburger, the grandson on a double quarter pounder, with cheese and I seized the opportunity to enjoy two McRib Sandwiches (while they are still available!). Yes the quality of the food was questionable (except for the McRibs, which were absolutely wonderful), but the company at our table couldn't have been better and the chaotically inclined patrons of the establishment, surrounding us, simply added to the festive nature of the occasion! Life is too short...grab all of it that you can, while you still can. As that wise fellow Richard Carlson wrote years ago, "don't sweat the small stuff!"


at least you had a good time.


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## Howard

I don't understand in what parent's right mind would bring a small kid to a high-class restaurant?


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## Shaver

MaxBuck said:


> If only your parents had shared your sentiments.
> 
> I kid! I kid! But you kind of set that one up on a tee for us ...


I will have you know that I was an impeccably well behaved child, too busy swotting for mischief.

The mischief commenced when I hit puberty. :redface:


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## Canadian

I can understand bringing a small child. Right now, we have a puppy and our social schedule depends on who's taking care of the dog. If I had a small child, I would either have to forgo social occasions for about 18 years or bring my child on a regular basis to the restaurant of my choice. If I want high end dining, and am willing to pay for it, I can see bringing a small child. Especially if you think, "Little Junior is well behaved at home, so we don't need a babysitter and anybody who has children would understand".

To be fair, I never dined in a terribly posh place till about age 12. I knew enough to put on a clip-on tie, slacks and pretend that I would like to be there.


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## MarkY

Canadian said:


> I can understand bringing a small child. Right now, we have a puppy and our social schedule depends on who's taking care of the dog. If I had a small child, I would either have to forgo social occasions for about 18 years or bring my child on a regular basis to the restaurant of my choice. If I want high end dining, and am willing to pay for it, I can see bringing a small child. Especially if you think, "Little Junior is well behaved at home, so we don't need a babysitter and anybody who has children would understand".
> 
> To be fair, I never dined in a terribly posh place till about age 12. I knew enough to put on a clip-on tie, slacks and pretend that I would like to be there.


Yes you should FOREGO or get a babysitter. If you choose to have children, you choose to forgo certain things.


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## Howard

I understand bringing kids to McDonald's, Burger King or Chucky Cheese but bringing them to a high class restaurant? What are they thinking?


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## VaBeach

Shaver said:


> I will have you know that I was an impeccably well behaved child, too busy swotting for mischief.
> 
> The mischief commenced when I hit puberty. :redface:


Is that code for figuring out what goes where and why?


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## Shaver

MarkY said:


> Yes you should FOREGO or get a babysitter. *If you choose to have children, you choose to forgo certain things*.


Amen, brother. Amen.


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## LordSmoke

On matters of fiscal and social constraints a friend of mine refers to his daughters as his "self-inflicted wounds". :icon_smile_big:


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## Shaver

^Unfortunately all too often these hapless, overweening, breeders merrily inflict their vile wounds on others.

.
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## drlivingston

LordSmoke said:


> his daughters


I have ONE four-year old daughter. I can not imagine her in the plural form. I would be a stark raving lunatic.


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## Tilton

I hate children - everything about 'em. Thankfully, the woman of the house shares my sentiment.


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## Shaver

The moral justification of sterlization is this desperate overcrowding. Dwindling natural resources and an ever expanding populace being an equation with but one bleak outcome. The tipping point is upon us, give it till 2017 maximum and all those narrow minded so-and-so's who felt that the self-indulgent vanity of procreation was worth more than attempting to appreciate the magnitude of the problem will, when faced with starvation, have to eat their words.......and probably their children.:icon_pale:


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## Langham

I must admit, I'm perplexed by the curiously anti-child sentiments expressed so freely in this thread. When they we younger, my wife and I frequently took the sprogs to expensive restaurants and I don't remember a single complaint, apart from the time one of them threw a bread roll at someone, knocking his claret everywhere, but even he saw the funny side (I think).


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## Reuben

drlivingston said:


> I have ONE four-year old daughter. I can not imagine her in the plural form. I would be a stark raving lunatic.


I'm dating one girl of a set of triplets. I can only imagine the heck that poor father went through.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shaver

Reuben said:


> I'm dating one girl of a set of triplets. I can only imagine the heck that poor father went through.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


hmmm. We're not on the interchange are we? In which case my dating advice for this particular situation can be obtained via pm.


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## Tilton

Shaver said:


> hmmm. We're not on the interchange are we? In which case my dating advice for this particular situation can be obtained via pm.


Very little imagination needed.


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## Reuben

Shaver said:


> hmmm. We're not on the interchange are we? In which case my dating advice for this particular situation can be obtained via pm.


Half Italian and half French-Swiss, too. Only woman I've ever met who cooks nearly as well as my mother.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shaver

Tilton said:


> Very little imagination needed.


The imagination is required to make it happen rather than to merely daydream.


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## Howard

Tilton said:


> I hate children - everything about 'em. Thankfully, the woman of the house shares my sentiment.


You were a child at one time, you have to remember that.


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## Bernie Zack

Shaver said:


> I despise children.
> 
> Gah! :mad2:


As a father of an 11 year son and a 13 year old daughter, there are many days where I share this sentiment!


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## KenR

To the OP,

You mentioned that the child was not terribly loud or disruptive. Maybe the parents had tested the waters already and found their child to be generally well behaved at nice restaurants. But I can also see your point. Worrying that an outburst might be forthcoming from an child unknown to you could put a damper on a special evening.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dhaller

I have a 16 month old.

THere's really no need to "forego" things when one has children - the peculiar Anglophone obsession with parental sacrifice notwithstanding; children are an addition to life, not a detriment.

That is, if one simply *plans*.

Our daughter has accompanied us to many, many fine restaurants (on three continents), and has never "acted up". She already has an adventuresome palate (she ate crab brains the last time we were in Japan!), but when she goes out with us, we PLAN - we make sure she's had a nap, we have certain snacks and foods she's certain to like with us in case she's hard to please at the restaurant, we bring (quiet) toys for her to play with at table, and so on.

When it's available, we do always get a private dining room at the restaurant - that way when *she's* done she can roam around in the room, play, and so on, out of view (and earshot) from other diners.

I CAN think of ONE outburst - we were at a Teppenyaki place in Atlanta, sitting at the grill, and the cook was doing his performance bit and lit some oil aflame, which ballooned up in a fiery explosion (to entertain the diners), and daughter was (frankly) pretty terrified, and burst into tears... she was perhaps 6 or 7 months old at the time. It kind of amused fellow diners, but it *was* noisy... and since then we avoid foods which might involve a spectacle (like flaming brandies and so on). But we know from experience and testing that she'll be *fine* for two hours in a restaurant - plenty of time for a chef's dinner with wine pairings.

But she loves exploring new flavors, loves food, and loves going out (as do we), and thus far no one has been anything but charmed by her. Again, it's all a matter of planning and management (as so many things are).

DH


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## The Irishman

I have no kids, but if I did I'd absolutely bring them to a nice restaurant. 

I'd make it a lunch, or an early service, and take precautions to avoid noise, but after that I wouldn't give a damn to be honest. If I saw someone fuming because I had the temerity to bring a child in I would find it amusing more than anything else.

After all, there's no mystery why parents would bring a kid to a high class restaurant, surely? If I had a kid I would still want to eat well and wouldn't voluntarily relegate myself to takeaways and burger joints. 

To be honest the responsibility towards other diners lies with the restaurant, IMO, not the parents. If the restaurant admits a family to a particular service then why should parents second guess them?

The whole question doesn't really begin and end with restaurants: What about kids travelling first class in the air or by train? That annoys people too, but there's little to be done about it. 

The reality is that you pay for your meal or your first class seat or whatever but you aren't buying any rights to dictate your environment beyond that... the odd squalling baby is always an outside chance. If you really want no kids then ask about the restaurant's policy, take the chef's table, take a private room or eat at home.


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## McKay

The Irishman said:


> The reality is that you pay for your meal or your first class seat or whatever but you aren't buying any rights to dictate your environment beyond that...


In many cases (which I suggest includes first-class travel and the better restaurants), the environment is exactly what you're paying for. Often a peaceful environment is part of a customer's reasonable expectation.


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## The Irishman

You're right about ambience and setting in a restaurant, I take your point there... But as far as your fellow diners are concerned I would suggest that is still matter of restaurant policy. And if a restaurant admits a child, then that's that.

If I fly first class I *hope* I won't be seated near young children. But if I am I have no illusions that there's something I can do about it. 

The odds are usually good, I think that's about as much as you can reasonably expect.


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## Dhaller

Going to restaurants at lunch time is an excellent example of "planning" outings with very young children, though most very fine restaurants are only open for dinner, and of course it's problematic during weekdays.

As for first-class and/or business class flights and small children - sadly, for international flights it really doesn't work because the seating is *too* separated both by distance and privacy screening. The only real possibility there is simple to get a grouping of seats - a middle row of four, for example - so you have a kind of play area/ place to lay down. It's still quite miserable (for we, the tall).

My wife generously mentions that I could fly in a higher class while she and the daughter languish in economy, but I suspect this suggestion is a fiendish trap... so I always decline 

DH


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## Snow Hill Pond

LordSmoke said:


> ... but what kind of people would be so inconsiderate to bring an infant to a high-end restaurant.


If one accepts that the average person is basically selfish and self-serving, while being totally un-self-aware of that fact, then it's a wonder that any experience in public is enjoyable.


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## Foulball

I have a 3 year old daughter and agree with the OP. I do not consider an actual high-end restaurant an appropriate place for small children. However, if someone does bring their child, the _maître d_'hôtel should place them as far away from other tables as politely possible. Although, as others have stated, with proper planning a child can be a perfect angel in a nice restaurant. Mine started out great in restaurants but now is surely a devil's spawn so we only go to family restaurants with her. That way she can fit right in with the other demons.


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## Howard

They should make separate tables for the little kids so that way the parents wouldn't be disrupted.


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## MarkY

Just read this and it reminded me of this thread. Happy reading.

https://www.foxnews.com/leisure/201...er-guests-bring-infant-to-upscale-restaurant/


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## Jovan

Sorry, but having gone to a high class restaurant a few days ago, I have to somewhat side with the OP here. I wouldn't say it's the fact that babies are admitted that bothers me though, it's that parents never bring them outside anymore when they cry -- something that used to be expected of polite society. Even parents in movie theatres will give you the stink eye if you so much suggest that their screaming infant is disrupting your enjoyment of the feature. So then I'm subjected to five minutes of screaming and crying when I'm trying to enjoy a nice night out. The same principle goes for those people who think they need to be the loudest to be funny to their friends.

So basically, loud noises detract from my enjoyment of a restaurant more than other patrons' attire. I can ignore whatever other people are wearing (and my attention isn't focused there anyways), but I can't when there's aural distraction.


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## Hyacinth

MarkY said:


> Just read this and it reminded me of this thread. Happy reading.
> 
> https://www.foxnews.com/leisure/201...er-guests-bring-infant-to-upscale-restaurant/


Thanks for posting this. I also agree with Jovan that loud noises can be more distracting than attire.

It raises the question for me - is the acceptability of crying babies in inverse relation to how much you're paying for dinner? Should one be more ok with it at Chili's?


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## Larry Poppins

Foulball said:


> with proper planning a child can be a perfect angel in a nice restaurant. Mine started out great in restaurants but now is surely a devil's spawn so we only go to family restaurants .


This sounds a bit like my son. When he was four he was able to sit at the table for two hours or more in a fine dining room. By the time he was six fast casual could be a challenge. Today he enjoys the formality of table manners, until he gets bored, then he groans on and on and I want to call the nanny and have him brought up to the nursery for a spoonful of cod liver oil. I can't do that of course.

What gets me gritting my teeth is the behavior of parents of teens/tweens at fine dining. I am able to go out with my wife so rarely that it can mar the evening if the folks at the next table are inconsiderate or rude. The kids don't know except what they've learned, so if the parents bring them in tshirts or let them fiddle with their phones, leave their napkins on the table when they are finished eating or get up and wander around the place I do take offense. There are many families in my neighborhood who can afford to spend three or four hundred dollars on a meal once a week, so acting like it's just another family dinner might seem normal to the kids. My situation means that tablecloths are a rare sight for me and mine. I take the bad behavior of the children as a reflection of the entitled attitudes of the parents, like, "I'm paying Xhundred dollars to eat here,so I'll act as I wish."


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## WouldaShoulda

Hyacinth said:


> Thanks for posting this. I also agree with Jovan that loud noises can be more distracting than attire.
> 
> It raises the question for me - is the acceptability of crying babies in inverse relation to how much you're paying for dinner? Should one be more ok with it at Chili's?


Yes.

When the decibels are at 90 anyway, the screaming is more acceptable.


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## jm22

I went to an anniversary dinner with my girlfriend at an upscale restaurant in Boston and had specified it was a special occasion with the reservations. We were placed next to a group of 8 cackling 40-50 year old women who were so loud I couldn't hear my girlfriend speak. I kindly asked to move and the women gave me the stink eye and glared while we moved. The manager also was difficult to convince, which further soured the night. 

I am more offended with loud noises and distractions, rather than the source of them. I've been to restaurants with infants that are more well behaved than their parents.


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## WouldaShoulda

jm22 said:


> I went to an anniversary dinner with my girlfriend at an upscale restaurant in Boston and had specified it was a special occasion with the reservations. We were placed next to a group of 8 cackling 40-50 year old women who were *so loud I couldn't hear my girlfriend speak*.


Do you recall the name of the restaurant and table number or location??

I have an annivesary coming up and am looking for the perfect spot!!


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## jm22

WouldaShoulda said:


> Do you recall the name of the restaurant and table number or location??
> 
> I have an annivesary coming up and am looking for the perfect spot!!


No, I don't remember. We lived there for a few years. L'espalier, top of the hub, Cragie on main, no. 9 park, and Menton were our favorite high end restaurants.

The particular episode was at Top of the Hub.


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## eagle2250

Tilton said:


> I hate children - everything about 'em. Thankfully, the woman of the house shares my sentiment.


LOL......., but if we had no children, to whom would we bequeath the content of our beloved wardrobes and all that other over priced, Tradly miscellany acquired over our lifetime(s), when we kick the bucket? I certainly don't want to leave it to the government, as they've gotten far more than their fair share during my lifetime! It's far more comforting to think that our children will be able to fight over any legacy I might have to leave, than to just give it all away to strangers. Yes, no?


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## Jovan

Hyacinth said:


> Thanks for posting this. I also agree with Jovan that loud noises can be more distracting than attire.
> 
> It raises the question for me - is the acceptability of crying babies in inverse relation to how much you're paying for dinner? Should one be more ok with it at Chili's?


To an extent, maybe. But I still remember when it was more commonplace to retreat to the restroom or out of doors to calm them regardless of the price or class level of a public place. I don't know what's happened to change that in the last decade.


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## Howard

Jovan said:


> Sorry, but having gone to a high class restaurant a few days ago, I have to somewhat side with the OP here. I wouldn't say it's the fact that babies are admitted that bothers me though, it's that parents never bring them outside anymore when they cry -- something that used to be expected of polite society. Even parents in movie theatres will give you the stink eye if you so much suggest that their screaming infant is disrupting your enjoyment of the feature. So then I'm subjected to five minutes of screaming and crying when I'm trying to enjoy a nice night out. The same principle goes for those people who think they need to be the loudest to be funny to their friends.
> 
> So basically, loud noises detract from my enjoyment of a restaurant more than other patrons' attire. I can ignore whatever other people are wearing (and my attention isn't focused there anyways), but I can't when there's aural distraction.


So How do you ignore it?


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## Howard

jm22 said:


> I went to an anniversary dinner with my girlfriend at an upscale restaurant in Boston and had specified it was a special occasion with the reservations. We were placed next to a group of 8 cackling 40-50 year old women who were so loud I couldn't hear my girlfriend speak. I kindly asked to move and the women gave me the stink eye and glared while we moved. The manager also was difficult to convince, which further soured the night.
> 
> I am more offended with loud noises and distractions, rather than the source of them. I've been to restaurants with infants that are more well behaved than their parents.


Shouldn't some restaurants give you the peace and quiet you deserve?


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## Howard

So if you go to a high class restaurant with a small kid shouldn't they be dressed up as well?


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## eagle2250

Ban the AmJack clad patrons; ban the children, even the quiet, well mannered ones, if you must; but also do it right and ban those damnable iphones as well! When I see dining patrons at the other tables, texting on their iphones, rather than talking to one another, it drives me nuts. By gawd, enjoying fine food in lavish surroundings can only be done right when engaged in quiet and always cordial conversation with one's friends. LOL, do it right, dammit, or just stay home with the kids and eat your beans straight from the can, like we real men do it!


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## WouldaShoulda

eagle2250 said:


> Ban the AmJack clad patrons; ban the children, even the quiet, well mannered ones, if you must; but also do it right and ban those damnable iphones as well! When I see dining patrons at the other tables, texting on their iphones, rather than talking to one another, it drives me nuts. By gawd, enjoying fine food in lavish surroundings can only be done right when engaged in quiet and always cordial conversation with one's friends. LOL, do it right, dammit, or just stay home with the kids and eat your beans straight from the can, like we real men do it!


Rant of the day nominated!!


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## Jovan

Howard said:


> So How do you ignore it?


That's my point, Howard. I don't know how. Even the worst behaved audience members from my theatre experience weren't that distracting and I could still focus on acting.


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## Dhaller

eagle2250 said:


> Ban the AmJack clad patrons; ban the children, even the quiet, well mannered ones, if you must; but also do it right and ban those damnable iphones as well! When I see dining patrons at the other tables, texting on their iphones, rather than talking to one another, it drives me nuts. By gawd, enjoying fine food in lavish surroundings can only be done right when engaged in quiet and always cordial conversation with one's friends. LOL, do it right, dammit, or just stay home with the kids and eat your beans straight from the can, like we real men do it!


But with no iPhones, how are diners to photograph each course of the tasting menu to post to Facebook?

DH


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## Shaver

Dhaller said:


> But with no iPhones, how are diners to photograph each course of the tasting menu to post to Facebook?
> 
> DH


One day Facebook will die. And I will be there to dance merrily on its grave. :icon_smile:


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## Jovan

Speaking in _general_ dining terms: It sounds great to ban them from the table, though in practice smartphones can actually add to a conversation... with some common sense. Don't bring it out _every _single time "oh my God, that reminds me of this funny picture/video where..." Everything in moderation. Don't sit there and text with someone all night as my friend's girlfriend is wont to do. (We have to always remind her that there is life outside of Facebook, specifically the people in front of her. But she is in high school and will eventually learn.) Don't have the volume at full, everyone hates that person blasting a song or video from across the restaurant or bar. If you must text or call to check on someone's arrival time, do so discreetly -- take calls outside and let others know, "Hey, I'm just going to check on their status real quick," so they know you're not being rude.

All that said, it's best to leave them off or in the car at a place of fine dining if possible. Something about the atmosphere is just a lot better.


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## Shaver

Jovan said:


> Speaking in _general_ dining terms: It sounds great to ban them from the table, though in practice smartphones can actually add to a conversation... with some common sense. Don't bring it out _every _single time "oh my God, that reminds me of this funny picture/video where..." Everything in moderation. Don't sit there and text with someone all night as my friend's girlfriend is wont to do. (We have to always remind her that there is life outside of Facebook, specifically the people in front of her. But she is in high school and will eventually learn.) Don't have the volume at full, everyone hates that person blasting a song or video from across the restaurant or bar. If you must text or call to check on someone's arrival time, do so discreetly -- take calls outside and let others know, "Hey, I'm just going to check on their status real quick," so they know you're not being rude.
> 
> All that said, it's best to leave them off or in the car at a place of fine dining if possible. Something about the atmosphere is just a lot better.


Smartphones may perhaps add to a conversation, if the user is not inherently smart.

I tend to generate conversation from the accumulation of knowledge that I hold in my splendid, organic-technology, real-time, all you can eat data, ultrafast download, interactive, all format compatible, live-streaming, hardware package - otherwise known as a brain.


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## eagle2250

^^+1...and a rather novel thought, eh? I can remember a world that existed prior to this onslaught of social media....and it was good. 
I do hope it once again catches on with the masses! LOL.


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## sskim3

eagle2250 said:


> ^^+1...and a rather novel thought, eh? I can remember a world that existed prior to this onslaught of social media....and it was good.
> I do hope it once again catches on with the masses! LOL.


By the time you all think the smartphone phase dies out, people will be using Google Glasses or some similar technology. Watching the Sunday Football game through your glasses while eating out with the wife? Multi-tasking at its finest.

Who knows... Maybe we will be further along with technology and make ridiculous Minority Report-like gestures to manipulate holograms during dinner. Oh the endless possibilities.


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## Jovan

I make a well thought out post and the Luddites don't so much as attempt to see a different side of the argument or address any points made. I shouldn't be entirely surprised. ic12337:


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## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Ban the AmJack clad patrons; ban the children, even the quiet, well mannered ones, if you must; but also do it right and ban those damnable iphones as well! When I see dining patrons at the other tables, texting on their iphones, rather than talking to one another, it drives me nuts. By gawd, enjoying fine food in lavish surroundings can only be done right when engaged in quiet and always cordial conversation with one's friends. LOL, do it right, dammit, or just stay home with the kids and eat your beans straight from the can, like we real men do it!


I think technology has taken over people's lives. Whatever happened to one on one conversations face to face?


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## Howard

Dhaller said:


> But with no iPhones, how are diners to photograph each course of the tasting menu to post to Facebook?
> 
> DH


Didn't they just ban taking pictures of your meal?


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## Howard

Shaver said:


> One day Facebook will die. And I will be there to dance merrily on its grave. :icon_smile:


I'm not a member of Facebook.


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## nibo

At the expense of sounding like a pompous ass, I have honestly walked out of restaurants and drinking establishments because of people dressed like ******* truck drivers. I'm not wasting my money to be surrounding by what should be at a sports bar. I'm formal I guess.


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## Shaver

Jovan said:


> I make a well thought out post and the Luddites don't so much as attempt to see a different side of the argument or address any points made. I shouldn't be entirely surprised. ic12337:


We Luddites are a notoriously humourless bunch. Please take pity on us. :icon_smile:


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## Fraser Tartan

sskim3 said:


> By the time you all think the smartphone phase dies out, people will be using Google Glasses or some similar technology. Watching the Sunday Football game through your glasses while eating out with the wife? Multi-tasking at its finest.


We're already there with the Google Glasses in restaurants. I've seen them a number of times in restaurants and bars here.


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## smmrfld

Fraser Tartan said:


> We're already there with the Google Glasses in restaurants. I've seen them a number of times in restaurants and bars here.


Yup. Don't even really think twice about seeing them - just another device. No big deal.


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## Howard

nibo said:


> At the expense of sounding like a pompous ass, I have honestly walked out of restaurants and drinking establishments because of people dressed like ******* truck drivers. I'm not wasting my money to be surrounding by what should be at a sports bar. I'm formal I guess.


You should be ashamed, some people are quite sloppy in the way they dress themselves.


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## Howard

Fraser Tartan said:


> We're already there with the Google Glasses in restaurants. I've seen them a number of times in restaurants and bars here.


Why in the heck would someone need Google Glasses?


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## Jovan

nibo said:


> At the expense of sounding like a pompous ass, I have honestly walked out of restaurants and drinking establishments because of people dressed like ******* truck drivers. I'm not wasting my money to be surrounding by what should be at a sports bar. I'm formal I guess.


Life's too short to be a Professional Offence Taker, buddy.


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## Bjorn

Jovan said:


> Life's too short to be a Professional Offence Taker, buddy.


Au contraire, it's not nearly long enough


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## Howard

If I was concerned about someone's appearance, I would sure to let them know.


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## Enrique Shockwave

As someone young enough to still remember their childhood in detail, this thread got me thinking about how my parents would handle situations like these. For special occasions, such as anniversaries, there would be a baby sitter. However, as my siblings and I got older (there were three of us), we were expected to be able to have a civil family meal together in a more upscale restaurant. We were poor, to put it indelicately, but by saving we could afford something worthwhile.

By the time I was in my teens, we would eat at restaurants with dress codes and prices on only one of the menus. "Dressing up" was standard, but traditional articles like sportcoats and ties were, due to climate and cultural issues, not expected. My behavior, and that of my siblings', was expected to be impeccable. After all, we could always wait outside if we couldn't handle being inside.

I think a big part of our ability to "perform" in public was our practice in private. We ate as a family every morning and every night. Only on rare occasions would we not eat together. Manners were a part of our everyday existence. I think that many families just don't do that anymore, so when it's time to eat out, there's no standard to aspire to.


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## Hyacinth

Howard said:


> If I was concerned about someone's appearance, I would sure to let them know.


Can you share how to effectively do this, Howard? How do you know it wouldn't escalate to fisticuffs?

[Cf thread "Worth Dressing?" on the Trad board]


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## Howard

Hyacinth said:


> Can you share how to effectively do this, Howard? How do you know it wouldn't escalate to fisticuffs?
> 
> [Cf thread "Worth Dressing?" on the Trad board]


Well, you'd just let them know in a peaceful manner, not in an arguably fashion or it's going to wind up in fisticuffs. The person might tell me to "shove off" OR "get the hell out of my face" just because I told the truth, so be it.


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## gaseousclay

Babies at restaurants don't really bother me because my wife and I simply don't do fine dining a lot. If we do go to a restaurant I make sure it's child friendly in advance. I rarely see infants in high end restaurants during dinner, well, because most infants are sleeping around that time.

As for attire, it bothers me a little when I'm at a high end restaurant and some slob comes in wearing shorts, flip flops & a hat. Some of you say that it doesn't bother you and that it's none of your business, that is until that slob is seated next to you while you're trying to have a nice night out with your missus. Admit it, you don't care about the guy dressed like a slob so long as he's seated in some dark corner of the restaurant where you don't have to look at him. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Howard

It sometimes bothers me if someone dresses down or worse than me, I mean c'mon you're in a nice restaurant and you're looking like a slob, what in the world are you thinking? I understand if it's a McDonalds, Subway or a pizza place but places like a fancy steakhouse or Outback, I think people will look at you differently.


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## gaseousclay

Howard said:


> It sometimes bothers me if someone dresses down or worse than me, I mean c'mon you're in a nice restaurant and you're looking like a slob, what in the world are you thinking? I understand if it's a McDonalds, Subway or a pizza place but places like a fancy steakhouse or Outback, I think people will look at you differently.


I don't know many people that would consider a steak house or Outback good examples of fine dining, Howard.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jovan

Outback =/= fancy steakhouse. Fancy steakhouse would be places like Paul's Monterey Inn and Marcello's Chophouse (both well worth visiting here).


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## Howard

gaseousclay said:


> I don't know many people that would consider a steak house or Outback good examples of fine dining, Howard.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well I've seen some gentlemen wear suits and ties.


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## gaseousclay

Howard said:


> Well I've seen some gentlemen wear suits and ties.


I could see someone wearing a pair of khakis, dress shoes and a button up shirt at a steak house but not a suit. I'm sure it happens but it just strikes me as odd

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Howard

gaseousclay said:


> I could see someone wearing a pair of khakis, dress shoes and a button up shirt at a steak house but not a suit. I'm sure it happens but it just strikes me as odd
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe it's some guy's birthday or maybe or a graduation or maybe they just feel like wearing a shirt and tie.


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## eagle2250

Late Sunday afternoon(yesterday), the wife and I, returning from a road trip exploring the more northern reaches of the "Mitten," AKA: Michigan, stopped at a Lone Star Steakhouse in Lansing, MI, for a last meal on the road, while enroute to the comforting arms of the old homestead. As I sat there clad in my Clarkes Advantage chinos and an O'Connell's light blue OCBD Popover shirt, surveying the restaurant for inappropriately dressed patrons (), I spotted one patron wearing a navy blazer and an open collared shirt who really stood out...he stood out because he was the only patron in the restaurant wearing anything more formal than casual wear! Had we not been in an active travel status, I would have in all probability been the second patron wearing a navy blazer.


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## drlivingston

It kills me to think that back in the day people wore coat and tie to everything, i.e. work, dinner, airline flights, etc. The part that I find troubling is the fact that many of the garments back then were constructed of very uncomfortable materials. Yet, they still wore them without many exceptions. Now, we have superior fabrics and more comfortable dress option and we opt to not wear them.


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## Howard

drlivingston said:


> It kills me to think that back in the day people wore coat and tie to everything, i.e. work, dinner, airline flights, etc. The part that I find troubling is the fact that many of the garments back then were constructed of very uncomfortable materials. Yet, they still wore them without many exceptions. Now, we have superior fabrics and more comfortable dress option and we opt to not wear them.


Back then, people knew how to dress. Today, they dress how they feel.


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## Jovan

Uncomfortable materials in what way? I've owned a couple old flannel suits and they're perfectly comfortable, if a bit heavier than is typical today. They also get wrinkled more easily than plain worsted wool.


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## eagle2250

^^LOL. I do believe the honorable drlivingston is recalling attire from the 1940's/1950's, perhaps a decade or two prior to the production date of the garments you have experienced and, Oh Yea(!), even preceding my experience! Fabrics could get more than just a bit stiff and scratchy way back then, or so I've been told.


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## Jovan

One of the ones I'm referring to is from the 1950s.


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## Howard

Do you guys ever take notice of someone's who's dress attire in a restaurant is sloppy or would you just mind your business and not say anything?


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## pleasehelp

Why let it bother you? You're going to decide to let someone else's attire affect your mood? I don't see the point in giving people that type of power over your happiness.


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## Quetzal

I have the displeasure of being excessively observant, hence I notice everything, ranging from the Plumber's Crack (even the plumbers whom I've worked with are better dressed than people at restaurants) to misbehaved children (their parents are MUCH more juvenile than their parents; it's no wonder why children are less desirable and less tolerated) to immature conversations, and to well, the fly in the soup. This is one of the reasons why I only choose fine dining or just stay at home and cook my own delicious food.

Although I'm the only one properly dressed (my friends are now finally beginning to get the sartorial method, thanks to me) at the few times that I go to a restaurant (smaller, less sophisticated restaurants are indifferent, or attempt and fail to jack up the price by a buck or too; proper joints are respectful, and I receive better treatment such as quicker meals; perhaps they think that I'm a young critic or inspector, which is why I don't mind being "best" dressed when I go out to eat), I can see people who try, at least, by wearing a shirt and pants, rarely a tie, but a sport coat, on a few occasions, but these are usually younger (or older; there are many older singles in this part of the country) guys obviously on a date.

-Quetzal


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## Jovan

Once again, why revive an old thread?


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## Howard

Sometimes I look at the other person who dresses neater than me but It doesn't bother me as much I just go about my business.


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## ChrisRS

Jovan said:


> Once again, why revive an old thread?


Because others complain if we start a new thread about an old topic?


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## smmrfld

Quetzal said:


> I receive better treatment such as quicker meals; perhaps they think that I'm a young critic or inspector, which is why I don't mind being "best" dressed when I go out to eaat-Quetzal


You're joking, right?


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## eagle2250

^^
Why is that so shocking to you or hard for you to believe?


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## Jovan

Not so hard to believe. My partner and I even got free dessert a couple years ago. Though by dressing the part you must also act the part. Don't drink to excess and start hitting on the server. Make sure to have excellent table manners and restaurant etiquette. Though, like anything in life, it's worth doing everything right if you do one thing right.



ChrisRS said:


> Because others complain if we start a new thread about an old topic?


You have a point, actually. Damned if you do, damned if you don't! :biggrin:


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## ChrisRS

Jovan said:


> You have a point, actually. Damned if you do, damned if you don't! :biggrin:


Thanks Jovan for understanding.

I have gotten comped because I treat the staff well or have overlooked a perceived slight, not because I look good (a subjective observation). A most recent example, being asked to move to a smaller table during appetizers because a party was coming in and I was in the way.
I don't think I have ever been mistaken for a critic or blogger. As far as I know, in order to provide a true review, they often take extraordinary measures to remain anonymous.


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## Quetzal

Jovan said:


> Not so hard to believe. My partner and I even got free dessert a couple years ago. *Though by dressing the part you must also act the part*. Don't drink to excess and start hitting on the server. Make sure to have excellent table manners and restaurant etiquette. Though, like anything in life, it's worth doing everything right if you do one thing right.
> 
> You have a point, actually. Damned if you do, damned if you don't! :biggrin:


Oh, naturally so! I know a guy who always wears a suit (we're both around the same age, so wearing a suit everyday is impractical and also comes off as pretentious), but is apparently a total jerk whenever he goes out to eat, so the staff (we both dine at the same restaurant) tell me.

-Quetzal


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## Bjorn

Jovan said:


> Not so hard to believe. My partner and I even got free dessert a couple years ago. Though by dressing the part you must also act the part. Don't drink to excess and start hitting on the server. Make sure to have excellent table manners and restaurant etiquette. Though, like anything in life, it's worth doing everything right if you do one thing right.
> 
> You have a point, actually. Damned if you do, damned if you don't! :biggrin:


Both drinking hard and hitting on the staff can be perfectly gentlemanly things to do 

Let's stick with dressing properly


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## zzdocxx

lol. :drunken_smilie: :icon_viking:


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## Howard

Quetzal said:


> Oh, naturally so! I know a guy who always wears a suit (we're both around the same age, so wearing a suit everyday is impractical and also comes off as pretentious), but is apparently a total jerk whenever he goes out to eat, so the staff (we both dine at the same restaurant) tell me.
> 
> -Quetzal


Why does he wear a suit everyday?


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## Travel57

Howard said:


> Why does he wear a suit everyday?


Better question, why does he act like a total jerk? :/


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## Jovan

Bjorn said:


> Both drinking hard and hitting on the staff can be perfectly gentlemanly things to do
> 
> Let's stick with dressing properly


That's where we'll agree to disagree.


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