# Sitting here sipping a Stagg Bourbon....



## michael69 (Sep 17, 2007)

... and smoking a Partagas Lusitanias...
Just realised, there is a heaven after all, and I'm in it!

Does anyone know of a better Bourbon Whiskey than George Stagg??

(Yesterday, I had some of my Tesseron XO perfection Cognac for New Year, that ain't bad either!)


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

Not familiar with Stagg, but it must be a fine whiskey.

I certainly won't say that I'm having better, but I will enjoy a bit of Maker's Mark bourbon whisky later this evening. I am envious of your Cuban cigar, however.


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## Dr. François (Sep 14, 2008)

Stagg is a magnificent bourbon. Most of the options from the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection are equally as distinguished. 
If you are looking for a bourbon on-par with Stagg in terms of quality, I would recommend Pappy Van Winkle 15 year old.
Four Roses Single Barrel is also magnificent.


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## michael69 (Sep 17, 2007)

Dr. François said:


> Stagg is a magnificent bourbon. Most of the options from the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection are equally as distinguished.
> If you are looking for a bourbon on-par with Stagg in terms of quality, I would recommend Pappy Van Winkle 15 year old.
> Four Roses Single Barrel is also magnificent.


Looks like I might have to give those a go!
the finish on the Stagg goes on for about a week.......


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## michael69 (Sep 17, 2007)

Relayer said:


> Not familiar with Stagg, but it must be a fine whiskey.
> 
> I certainly won't say that I'm having better, but I will enjoy a bit of Maker's Mark bourbon whisky later this evening. I am envious of your Cuban cigar, however.


Trust me, if you get the oportunity to get familiar with George Stagg, take it!
I live in London, so Cubans aren't a problem! (except for price of course!)


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I prefer the Montecristo #2, of which I carried three in my tuxedo to dinner last night and didn't get to smoke. I also didn't have to share. 

My Bourbon of choice is Woodford Reserve, but I haven't taken the time to explore the higher-end options. A bar near me has several aged varieties of Pappy Van Winkle, the name of which sounds trashy but the prices indicate otherwise.


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## michael69 (Sep 17, 2007)

Miket61 said:


> I prefer the Montecristo #2


I like these too; I also had an amazing (quite unexpected actually) Monte Edmundo not long ago, then on another occasion, an Edmundo that was a bit so-so....

If you like Montecristo, I would suggest you try the Sublimes (2008 LE), they are, in fact, sublime!


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## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

Booker's bourbon is top notch.


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## Flashy (Mar 15, 2006)

Miket61 said:


> I prefer the Montecristo #2, of which I carried three in my tuxedo to dinner last night and didn't get to smoke. I also didn't have to share.
> 
> My Bourbon of choice is Woodford Reserve, but I haven't taken the time to explore the higher-end options. A bar near me has several aged varieties of Pappy Van Winkle, the name of which sounds trashy but the prices indicate otherwise.


I received a bottle of Old Rip van Winkle from a "Secret santa" swap at work. I was pleasantly surprised. The look is, as you said, trashy, and the cap is plastic screw on. But it is smooth. I like it as much as my other everyday bourbon, Marker Mark.

One higher end bourbon that shouldn't be over looked it Basil Hayden.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

michael69 said:


> I like these too; I also had an amazing (quite unexpected actually) Monte Edmundo not long ago, then on another occasion, an Edmundo that was a bit so-so....
> 
> If you like Montecristo, I would suggest you try the Sublimes (2008 LE), they are, in fact, sublime!


I had some of the 2004 limited edition #4s... in fact, I think I still have three or four. I'll have to see if my (completely legal) source has them available.

For non-Cuban cigars, I really enjoy the Arturo Fuente Hemingways. I also like the US-made La Gloria Cubanas, which I've smoked since before they were less than two dollars each and _Cigar Aficionado_ did a story about them in their first issue.


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

Flashy said:


> I received a bottle of Old Rip van Winkle from a "Secret santa" swap at work. I was pleasantly surprised. The look is, as you said, trashy, and the cap is plastic screw on. But it is smooth. I like it as much as my other everyday bourbon, Marker Mark.
> 
> One higher end bourbon that shouldn't be over looked it Basil Hayden.


Hi guys. The cigar and bourbon sound great. My two favorites are Basil Hayden and Woodford reserve (rocks, with a little twist o'lemon peel). Are you saying the van winkle is a more high end drink than these two? Is it really smooth and flavorful like a basil, or more kick like a knob creek or some others with flame? I cant say I've even seen it in any bars or restaurants that I recall. Appreciate any other bourbon suggestions you want to pass along!
Tom


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## Flashy (Mar 15, 2006)

TommyDawg said:


> Hi guys. The cigar and bourbon sound great. My two favorites are Basil Hayden and Woodford reserve (rocks, with a little twist o'lemon peel). Are you saying the van winkle is a more high end drink than these two? Is it really smooth and flavorful like a basil, or more kick like a knob creek or some others with flame? I cant say I've even seen it in any bars or restaurants that I recall. Appreciate any other bourbon suggestions you want to pass along!
> Tom


Personally, I'd put Rip on par with Makers Mark or Knob Cree, I'd say a step below Basil. Its only 90 proof, so its not as sharp as KC. Van Winkle has a few lines, and some of their offerings might be on tier with Basil or Woodford.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

Cigars yes. Burbon no. Irish or Scotch.


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

W.L. Weller is my favorite. Hard to find, but excellent. Blows Bookers out of the water, which I didn't think was possible.

In fact, the lesser offerings from Weller are good too. Old Weller 107 is, I think, the best bourbon for its price ($16.95 at local liquor stores).


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## epicuresquire (Feb 18, 2009)

I really like the A.W. Hirsch 16 year old - though I haven't been able to find it lately.


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## Threadman1891 (Aug 17, 2008)

Knob Creek here. No cigar, but I do like my Stanwell Legend pipe and a bowl full of McConnell Kentucky Nougat tobacco. Of course these also require a leather recliner and a crackling fire in the fireplace.


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## microserf (Apr 22, 2009)

Only get cubans when overseas....so I have to "suffer" tonight with a Marker's Mark and a Perdomo Patriarch Marduro. I think I'll survive.


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## Dr. François (Sep 14, 2008)

The Weller and Van Winkle lines are all wheat recipe bourbons. So is Maker's Mark. Wheat recipe bourbons are in the minority of all bourbons produced.

The whole Jim Beam small batch collection (Basil Hayden, Knob Creek, Booker's, and Baker's) are rye recipe bourbons, with Basil Hayden having the highest rye content of all (it's based off the same mashbill as Old Grand Dad). Of the list, BH is the smoothest and easiest to drink while Booker's is the best whiskey, IMHO. Knob Creek, to me, tastes like 100 proof Jim Beam with a few more seasons of aging, which is exactly what it is.

I find it difficult to compare rye and wheat recipe bourbons. It's like comparing Pinot Noir to Zinfandel. Both are red wines, but the similarities end there. Wheat recipes are quite a bit like Pinot: light, delicate, smooth. Rye recipes are more like Zinfandel: full-bodied, assertive, and bold. Overall, I prefer rye recipe bourbons.

In the wheated category, it's hard to beat Weller Special Reserve. I like it much more than Maker's Mark, and it is quite a bit cheaper. Apparently red wax costs a lot of money.  The Van Winkel line is very nice, too.

In the rye recipe category, Four Roses Single Barrel, Old Grand Dad 114, and Elijah Craig 12YO are my go-to favorites.


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

*knob creek*



Threadman1891 said:


> Knob Creek here. No cigar, but I do like my Stanwell Legend pipe and a bowl full of McConnell Kentucky Nougat tobacco. Of course these also require a leather recliner and a crackling fire in the fireplace.


I'm with you Threadman. Knob Creek is my go to bourbon. I have also tried other members of the family: Basil Hayden, Bookers..., but I find Kob Creek the absolute best. It has a smooth carmelized flavorful heat that I have not found in any other brand. I do not find it anything like Makers Mark, which I don't care for at all... though I realize it is quite popular. For a lower priced, get anywhere whiskey, I like Jack Daniels from Tennessee.


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

Dr. François said:


> The Weller and Van Winkle lines are all wheat recipe bourbons. So is Maker's Mark. Wheat recipe bourbons are in the minority of all bourbons produced.
> 
> The whole Jim Beam small batch collection (Basil Hayden, Knob Creek, Booker's, and Baker's) are rye recipe bourbons, with Basil Hayden having the highest rye content of all (it's based off the same mashbill as Old Grand Dad). Of the list, BH is the smoothest and easiest to drink while Booker's is the best whiskey, IMHO. Knob Creek, to me, tastes like 100 proof Jim Beam with a few more seasons of aging, which is exactly what it is.
> 
> ...


Doc, thanks for the info. I did not know any of what you indicated. But, now I have some possible understanding as to why I do not like Makers Mark. I prefer the bolder flavors, and as you have indicated, those would be the rye recipes. I get the impression that Knob Creek is not your cup of tea, but I really like the flavor and smooth warmth that seems to saturate my body as I sip. How do your listed favorites compare?


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## Dr. François (Sep 14, 2008)

chava said:


> I get the impression that Knob Creek is not your cup of tea, but I really like the flavor and smooth warmth that seems to saturate my body as I sip. How do your listed favorites compare?


I would recommend the Four Roses Single Barrel and the Elijah Craig 12YO to you.

My objection to the Knob Creek is that I feel consistently underwhelmed by it. It targets, as you say, the "smooth" character rather than fascination or captivation. It's a competent bourbon, but with so many captivating options available at a lower price point, I always go elsewhere. Knob Creek is a great choice when I'm at the bar.

FWIW, the spirit that goes into the barrel is identical for all of the incarnations of Jim Beam (White, Black, 7YO) as well as Old Crow, Old Taylor, Booker's, Baker's, and Knob Creek. The only differences are proof, barrel location in the warehouse, and time. All three (plus marketing) factor into the final variable, price.

From what I understand, Beam maintains three mashbills (recipes): Straight Rye (JB Rye, Ri1); Straight Bourbon (all mentioned above); and high-rye Bourbon (Old Grand Dad 86, 100, 114, and Basil Hayden).


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

*bourbon*



Dr. François said:


> I would recommend the Four Roses Single Barrel and the Elijah Craig 12YO to you.
> 
> I will give those a shot. How did you acquire your knowledge of bourbon?


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## Dr. François (Sep 14, 2008)

chava said:


> I will give those a shot. How did you acquire your knowledge of bourbon?


PM sent.

On the original topic, Stagg is simply great. I still have a bit let in my bottle of 2007 vintage. I couldn't find any 2008 vintage this year.

Instead, I picked up another member of the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection: Thomas Handy Sazerac Rye. It's also a barrel proof, unfiltered whiskey, but it is a straight rye whiskey. It is fantastic!

There's nothing out there quite like Stagg. Stagg has the amazing ability to rock your whole being. It numbs the lips, tingles the tongue, burns the throat, and warms the whole body, radiating from the stomach. It's absolutely incredible!


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## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

michael69 said:


> ... and smoking a Partagas Lusitanias...
> Just realised, there is a heaven after all, and I'm in it!
> 
> *Does anyone know of a better Bourbon Whiskey than George Stagg??*
> ...


Yes, Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 20 year old.. :icon_smile_wink:


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## gnatty8 (Nov 7, 2006)

Flashy said:


> Personally, I'd put Rip on par with Makers Mark or Knob Cree, I'd say a step below Basil. Its only 90 proof, so its not as sharp as KC. Van Winkle has a few lines, and some of their offerings might be on tier with Basil or Woodford.


Makers's Mark and Knob Creek are not even in the same league as the 15, 20, and 23 year old bottlings of PVW.


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