# Coordinating shoe color with suit color



## rupertoooo (May 6, 2011)

What are the acceptable colors when matching shoes to both medium grey and navy suits.


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

rupertoooo said:


> What are the acceptable colors when matching shoes to both medium grey and navy suits.


There are probably too many rules on this, but a library of AAAC threads have proven to enlighten. As long as the belt is a reasonable match, I don't think you can go too far wrong. Mrs. Eye won't allow brown shoes with a grey suit, but I have come to disagree. Further, brown with the navy suit can look REALLY good. Black shoes have multiple disparagers, but are basically ok. (Black shoes with navy can look a bit, well, Air Force-ish.) The nebulous colors of burgundy, merlot, whiskey, etc. look just great.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Rules for shoe color with mid grey and navy suits 


Rule no. 1: Shoes must be at least as dark as the suit. NBA players and dandies are exempted. If one is not yet qualified as an experienced dandy, one will run the risk of being thought of as a short NBA wannabe.

Rule no. 2: Black is more formal, and thus traditionally preferred for city/business (solid and striped) suits, but dark brown is acceptable in most, but not all, environs. 

Notes, 

Air Force shoes are black, grain corrected bluchers, a style that should not be worn with any civilian suit, the balmoral being preferred.

Burgundy shoes are a relatively recent American innovation. While they are occasionally worn for business in some parts of the US, strictly speaking, they are not traditional business shoes.

The "rules" of dress are concise statements of tradition, they do not have the force of law, and compliance with them is voluntary.


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## rupertoooo (May 6, 2011)

I dont want to sound like a jerk but everything I have read states the shoe must be as dark as the suit and if that is the case black is the only acceptable color that truly coordinates with both mid grey and navy and I just dont buy it. As eyedoc stated a coordinating belt with a shoe is a must and can turn what some may believe is an awkward looking color combination into something that is very eye appealing. 

Lets make it simple:

Navy and grey suit = Black shoes answer is yes, but it seems many folks even have issues with black I would like to know how many folks use the below combinations for both Navy and Grey suits. 


Navy and grey suit = Walnut shoes ?

Navy and grey suit = Merlot/oxblood/burgundy shoes ?

Navy and grey suit = True brown shoes ?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

arkirshner said:


> Rules for shoe color with mid grey and navy suits
> ........
> Notes,
> 
> ...


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

eagle2250 said:


> arkirshner said:
> 
> 
> > Rules for shoe color with mid grey and navy suits
> ...


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## Grenadier (Dec 24, 2008)

rupertoooo said:


> Navy and grey suit = True brown shoes ?


Consider espresso and other dark browns. Something darker than a chestnut.

And I don't subscribe to the darker shoe rule in summer.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Consumer advocate Ralph Nader might disagree with you on the assessment above. Indeed, he found military oxfords to be such an extraordinary shoe value that, just prior to his discharge, he bought every pair of black PTBs in his size the military clothing sales store on his base had in stock...13 pair, I think it was. Those were the only shoes he wore for many years. On the other hand, most of my years in the military were spent wearing either AE Leeds in black calf or Dehner Wellington boots in black calf, each of which were polished to a mirror shine. I continue to wear both designs, as a civilian, and occassionally with navy, navy pinstripe and charcoal suits.


When I wrote my response, I thought that mentioning Air Force shoes might elicit a response. My only real experience with the Air Force was over 40 years ago when I was rejected for service, no doubt a correct decision.

I have always associated Air Force shoes with Bates, and https://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=17584&TabID=1&cs=1. not with the AE Leeds. I, too have a pair of Leeds, but as they are not a sleek design, I wear them (1) with grey pants and blazers or sportcoats, or (2) a grey tweed suit. IMO if one wants to wear bluchers with a city suit it should be a sleek plain toe like the AE Kennilworth, or better still a 2 eyelet like these .

By the way, I respect your opinions and you have no need to support them by citing Ralph Nader, a man who is associated with functional, serviceable consumer items. I have no doubt his military shoes were comfortable and functional, but Ralph Nader is no sartorial icon.

Regards,

Alan


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

rupertoooo said:


> I dont want to sound like a jerk but everything I have read states the shoe must be as dark as the suit and if that is the case black is the only acceptable color that truly coordinates with both mid grey and navy and I just dont buy it. As eyedoc stated a coordinating belt with a shoe is a must and can turn what some may believe is an awkward looking color combination into something that is very eye appealing.
> 
> Lets make it simple:
> 
> ...


Your original post asked, "What are the acceptable colors when matching shoes to both medium grey and navy suits?" Your second post segues to "eye appealing". There is a world of difference between "acceptability" and "eye appealing." The former refers to the way in which other people react to your attire, the latter refers to aesthetics.

Perhaps my answer with respect to acceptability was not clear. Let me try again.

With medium grey and navy suits,

(1) when worn for business or relatively formal social events, (weddings, funerals, presentations and the like),
black shoes are accepted as correct in all circles in the US and UK. In the US, in all but the most conservative circles dark brown is an acceptable alternative. This is not the case in the UK, where brown for business is generally frowned upon. Thus, in the US if you wear brown shoes when making a presentation at a Fortune 500 board meeting you may, or may not, raise an eyebrow. If you wear black, you know you will not. The question you should always ask yourself is, do you care if an eyebrow is raised. If you are already on the board it is one thing, if you are a junior executive making his first presentation, it is safer to just wear black shoes.

(2) In the evening, only black is accepted as correct in all circles.

(3) For informal day wear, (tourist, informal social gatherings and the like) dark brown is acceptable, if not by everyone,by virtually everyone.

(4) One does not need to take out a light meter to measure. Dark brown is dark enough. The point of the dark as your pants rule is that the lightest color in the field of vision calls attention to itself. The purpose of traditional men's wear is to call attention to the man, not to an item of clothing. Wearing lighter shoes simply calls attention to the shoes, not to the man.

(5) A dandy, (used as a positive term), is a man who, is skilled at dressing, and chooses to judiciously bend or break a "rule", which after all is only a rule of thumb, in the interests of aesthetics. On this forum, by virtue of self selection, dandies, or those capable of being dandies, are over represented. An opinion as to aesthetics from the point of view of a dandy should not be confused with an opinion as to what is acceptable in more conservative circles. Accordingly advise here should be used selectively.

(6) Finally, while I do not mean to compare anyone here to Beethoven, it was only after he had thoroughly mastered the "rules" of classical composition did Beethoven go on to break those "rules" thus ushering a new era in music. In matters of men's dress it is recommended that one first master the "rules" before attempting to bend or break them, as to break the rules before mastering them is, as mentioned in my first post, to run the risk of looking like an NBA wannabe.

(7) Walnut shoes can be beautiful. I have around half a dozen pair and have worn them with grey and navy suits. Still, they should only be worn with certain ensembles and only on certain occasions.


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## RM Bantista (May 30, 2009)

Black goes with every thing.

That's not a rule. It just is.

Grey suits, black shoes, not wrong. Which shoe is another question.

Blue suit, black, of course, but brown is also usually fine. Finance and Court may be exceptions. Otherwise fine. Richer tones, deeper colors are all interesting.

Grey shoes are usually not very versatile, but then, with a grey suit in the daytime; not out of line. I wore a three piece grey suit with a two-tone boot today (Grey bottom, black shaft, Tony Lama), Grey western hat, in the afternoon and a silver belly in the evening. But that's me. And I have several grey suits. Don't wear brown with any of them; also, no Bluchers or Derbys, no loafers.

YMMV,
rudy


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Not sure of any official "rules" (which some clearly confuse with personal preference), but I think black shoes are far more limiting than some have argued. I've found that dark brown shoes look great with most shades of grey, especially mid-greys and darker, and with tan/khaki suits (haven't tried dark brown shoes with navy suits, but it's only a matter of time!). Burgundy/cordovan shoes work well with all shades of grey, and are exceptional with navy suits. I occasionally wear black shoes with grey suits, but I've become so disenchanted with black shoes that this has become increasingly rare...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

arkirshner said:


> When I wrote my response, I thought that mentioning Air Force shoes might elicit a response. My only real experience with the Air Force was over 40 years ago when I was rejected for service, no doubt a correct decision.
> 
> I have always associated Air Force shoes with Bates, and https://www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=17584&TabID=1&cs=1. not with the AE Leeds. I, too have a pair of Leeds, but as they are not a sleek design, I wear them (1) with grey pants and blazers or sportcoats, or (2) a grey tweed suit. IMO if one wants to wear bluchers with a city suit it should be a sleek plain toe like the AE Kennilworth, or better still a 2 eyelet like these .
> 
> ...


LOL. We are in complete agreement on those Bates' high shine corfram monstrocities. I never could understand how folks could stand to wear plastic shoes on their feet. As for Ralph Nader's shoes, he grew attached to those military issued oxfords that were a bit clunky in design and economically manufactured, but were suprisingly functional on the feet and they were very, very cheap to buy! One of the few things Ralph Nader and I have in common is that we are "tighter than two coats of paint!"


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

*on plastic shoes*



eagle2250 said:


> LOL. We are in complete agreement on those Bates' high shine corfram monstrocities. I never could understand how folks could stand to wear plastic shoes on their feet. As for Ralph Nader's shoes, he grew attached to those military issued oxfords that were a bit clunky in design and economically manufactured, but were suprisingly functional on the feet and they were very, very cheap to buy! One of the few things Ralph Nader and I have in common is that we are "tighter than two coats of paint!"


Here is how you wear corfram shoes: four times yearly, for quarterly inspection. Back in Air Force days, if you scored highly, the non-combatants would often get a pass for the next one. Wipe 'em down with Windex, and away in the box for another three months! Those shoes, and polyester from head to toe, made me feel like a Hefty bag. Or, as Mick Jagger almost said, "People dressed in plastic (shoes), directing traffic, some kind of fashion!"


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## Barcelona (Aug 13, 2009)

arkirshner said:


> Your original post asked, "What are the acceptable colors when matching shoes to both medium grey and navy suits?" Your second post segues to "eye appealing". There is a world of difference between "acceptability" and "eye appealing." The former refers to the way in which other people react to your attire, the latter refers to aesthetics.
> 
> Perhaps my answer with respect to acceptability was not clear. Let me try again.
> 
> ...


Could you use burgundy, such as the #8 shell cordovan, everywhere you could use dark brown?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

To my mind and eye a light grey suit does _not_ go with brown shoes. But that's my eye, not yours. And I will happily knock heads with anyone who has a problem with black shoes. However, if you are tired of black then burgundy/cordovan/merlot is super with anything but black trousers. As soon as the household budget opens up a tad, I'll be ordering a pair of loafers from russellmoccasin.com in burgundy for that very purpose. Light grey, dark grey, blue, brown, tan, and even deep green all go beautifully with burgundy. I'll also order a pair of chukkas that will end up being dark cream or golden yellow for casual wear because that's the color the eland leather I've go is!


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Barcelona said:


> Could you use burgundy, such as the #8 shell cordovan, everywhere you could use dark brown?


Certainly can in the US , shell cordovan originated in the 50s in New England and is a trad staple. However I have been told that it really has not caught on in the UK. Perhaps our UK friends will comment.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Black shoes do _not_ go with brown or tan suits, nor with tweed jackets ( unless gray or blue), nor with khaki slacks.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

The Rambler said:


> Black shoes do _not_ go with brown or tan suits, nor with tweed jackets ( unless gray or blue), nor with khaki slacks.


 I'm not so sure about the khaki slacks but I fully agree with the rest. I recall the old U.S. Army khaki summer uniform (that even had bermuda shorts!) required black low quarters and it looks very sharp, so sharp the Pentagon cancelled it.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> I'm not so sure about the khaki slacks but I fully agree with the rest. I recall the old U.S. Army khaki summer uniform (that even had bermuda shorts!) required black low quarters and it looks very sharp, so sharp the Pentagon cancelled it.


Yes, black shoes with khaki is more a matter of personal preference. Some like that Army look, 
and few accept the pentagon as an arbiter of taste.


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> Black shoes do _not_ go with brown or tan suits, nor with tweed jackets ( unless gray or blue), nor with khaki slacks.


Black will go with khaki pants, but brown shoes goes *much* better. As others have mentioned the Army & Navy both used Black shoes with khaki for years (not that the Pentagon is a source for fashion, but they do tend to mirror traditional society).


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)




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## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

For me: no brown shoes after 6. Otherwise anything is possible. Just be sure to match your shoes with your belt.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Lots of good comments in the thread so far. I find myself gravitating towards the cooler dark browns for wear with greys, and towards redder browns with blues. I find it hard to get excited about black shoes, but, because of the demands of my job (practicing lawyer), I sometimes have to wear them. They are, indeed, a safe choice with navy and grey suits alike.


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## Thomas Martin (Aug 12, 2011)

What's the general opinion about brogues with suits? I wear brogues mostly for casual and semi formal occasions. When a tie is mandatory I tend towards plain or cap toes but I would not be too categorical about it either.

Edit: I don't see any problem whatsoever with brown shoes and gray or navy suits. Looks very italian to me (which is good). I would however not wear browns with a black suit.


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## BBQ King (Nov 4, 2011)

Oldsarge said:


> I'm not so sure about the khaki slacks but I fully agree with the rest. I recall the old U.S. Army khaki summer uniform (that even had bermuda shorts!) required black low quarters and it looks very sharp, so sharp the Pentagon cancelled it.


I assume if black goes with the khaki pant it would go with the khaki suit? Brown or cord may be better, but the khaki poplin suit and black shoes seems to be acceptable


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> Yes, black shoes with khaki is more a matter of personal preference.
> 
> Some like that Army look, and few accept the pentagon as an arbiter of taste.


1) Not all personal preference is equal.

2) The chow was horrible!!


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## dparm (Nov 18, 2008)

Black shoes with blue pants (and especially a blue suit) screams "police officer" to me. Only exception is at job interviews in the business world. I know it's not the most fashionable but it is much more conservative and the last thing you want is to look like you're trying too hard.

I tend to stick with very dark brown shoes with navy pants. If you're more daring, try a deep cordovan color. Some can pull off "British tan" with navy, depending on the style of shoe and the exact shade.


My rule is just that I do not want my shoes to be the focal point of the outfit. I once wore my British tan Cole Haan full-brogue wingtips with my navy suit and everyone loved it -- in my mind that means they were all busy looking at my shoes instead of the outfit as a whole.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Barcelona said:


> Could you use burgundy, such as the #8 shell cordovan, everywhere you could use dark brown?


No, IMO. And I'd only pair a suit for business with (dark) brown shoes if I was in the US.

I would never wear burgundy with a lounge suit, I think.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Bjorn said:


> No, IMO. And I'd only pair a suit for business with (dark) brown shoes if I was in the US.
> 
> I would never wear burgundy with a lounge suit, I think.


Burgundy shoes I believe are more American thing. After all, that's the typical colour of cordovan shoes and those are perfectly acceptable to wear with a suit in America. With a charcoal or navy suit, both black and dark brown work equally well, though I'd only wear black shoes in the evening.


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## Georgetown08 (Oct 5, 2011)

dparm said:


> Black shoes with blue pants (and especially a blue suit) screams "police officer" to me. Only exception is at job interviews in the business world.


That seems to be a pretty significant exception to me. I've seen similar sentiments posted here quite frequently, and I have a hard time understanding them. How is it that the look that is a must for interviews, because it is the most conservative/business-y, is simultaneously "tacky" unless worn as part of some uniform? (I realize you didn't use the word tacky, but that seems to be the connotation in yours and similar posts.) I'm just curious because, while I'm starting to appreciate the way brown shoes can pair with navy, I still don't think black looks terrible.


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## sidkane (May 22, 2004)

Georgetown08 said:


> That seems to be a pretty significant exception to me. I've seen similar sentiments posted here quite frequently, and I have a hard time understanding them. How is it that the look that is a must for interviews, because it is the most conservative/business-y, is simultaneously "tacky" unless worn as part of some uniform? (I realize you didn't use the word tacky, but that seems to be the connotation in yours and similar posts.) I'm just curious because, while I'm starting to appreciate the way brown shoes can pair with navy, I still don't think black looks terrible.


I agree. Black shoes with blue/grey suits may not be the most stylish, but are always acceptable for business and safe for those who travel outside of the US. I don't understand telling new businessman/lawyers asking for advice to start with brown, sometimes not even just dark brown.


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## Bluegrass Man (Jun 26, 2011)

If I wanted to look like I was in the chAir Force or a security guard, I would wear black shoes with navy.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Bluegrass Man said:


> If I wanted to look like I was in the chAir Force or a security guard, I would wear black shoes with navy.


Or a London businessman. As far as I know, the best-dressed in London will only wear black shoes in town. Traditionally that's how it was.


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## TheBarbaron (Oct 8, 2010)

From a Southerner, and sometimes dandy:

Black pants - black shoes.
Navy pants - black for a funeral or job interview, cordovan or dark brown for everyday business, walnut or tan/cream spectators when feeling extraordinarily jaunty.
Dark greys/charcoal - black, cordovan, or dark brown, take your pick.
Light grey - mostly either dark brown or lighter tan; occasionally darker shoes, but rarely.
Olive, brown, taupe, or tan slacks - Cordovan, or any shade of brown. (I know plenty of otherwise reasonably well-dressed gentlemen who wear black with most of the above, but it seems so deadening).

As for style, while I tend toward a more refined balmoral captoe or plaintoe as a rule, I don't hesitate at all to wear a brogue with even the most formal suit. Of course, I work in an office where we sell clothing, play ping-pong, and smoke cigarettes excessively, so YMMV. Those in respectable investment houses may differ, and with reason. I will say, that unless circumstance compels me, I never wear a slip-on with a suit, only with odd slacks or casual pants. That may change if I acquire some chestnut monkstraps this year.

EDIT: While I'm very aware that cordovan/burgundy/merlot/oxblood is not generally a hit on the other side of the pond (though I recently sold a pair to a German traveller who was quite taken with them), in the more sartorially preppy or historic areas of the country, they are acceptable for all but the most formal occasions, classically tasteful, and perfectly versatile. In addition, they seem to my eye as good a match as black with most gray tones, and a far superior mate to navy which brings out a richness of color rather than deadening hues.


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## Bluegrass Man (Jun 26, 2011)

Matt S said:


> Or a London businessman. As far as I know, the best-dressed in London will only wear black shoes in town. Traditionally that's how it was.


I'll keep that in mind if I should get to London. In the meantime, however, I'll continue to abstain.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

I think black shoes are international business standard with suits. Brown shoes are not. IMO of course. 

I would not expect a London city professional to show up to a business meeting wearing brown shoes with his suit. IMO (again), they set the standard for international business attire.


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## a.ashley (Jan 6, 2010)

I agree with the main suggestions put forth by ARK, particularly for grey and navy suits, however profession and time of day do add in to the mix. Most of all my main issue with black shoes is that they are more formal which is great but the dark browns, cordovan and burgundy are more aesthetically pleasing.

:aportnoy: my first post after observing quietly for a while now...


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Thomas Martin said:


> What's the general opinion about brogues with suits? I wear brogues mostly for casual and semi formal occasions. When a tie is mandatory I tend towards plain or cap toes but I would not be too categorical about it either.
> 
> Edit: I don't see any problem whatsoever with brown shoes and gray or navy suits. Looks very italian to me (which is good). I would however not wear browns with a black suit.


Brown shoes with blue and gray suits is also very French looking (which is also good). Tan shoes with lighter gray suits and beige shoes with really light gray suits are also very French and Italian looking (all of which, again-is very good).

Yes, black suits and pants should be worn with black shoes only.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

TheBarbaron said:


> From a Southerner, and sometimes dandy:
> 
> Black pants - black shoes.
> Navy pants - black for a funeral or job interview, cordovan or dark brown for everyday business, walnut or tan/cream spectators when feeling extraordinarily jaunty.
> ...


You forgot 1, Barbaron:

Medium gray: black, dark red (cordovan is not a kind of red but rather a kind of leather-horse hide, to be exact), any brown or darker tan; take your pick. Tan shoes can also be worn with tan suits and pants.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Oldsarge said:


> To my mind and eye a light grey suit does _not_ go with brown shoes. But that's my eye, not yours. And I will happily knock heads with anyone who has a problem with black shoes. However, if you are tired of black then burgundy/cordovan/merlot is super with anything but black trousers. As soon as the household budget opens up a tad, I'll be ordering a pair of loafers from russellmoccasin.com in burgundy for that very purpose. Light grey, dark grey, blue, brown, tan, and even deep green all go beautifully with burgundy. I'll also order a pair of chukkas that will end up being dark cream or golden yellow for casual wear because that's the color the eland leather I've go is!


Suits and pants in any shade of green with shoes in any shade of red looks too Christmas like and only looks good from 11-1 to 12-25 every year. For the other 340 or 341 days of the year (depending on whether or not it's a leap year), any shade of green with any shade of red is dreadfully out of season.

Yes, all of the above includes dark (or-as you say, Sarge, deep) green with burgundy.


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