# Is it ok to wear a tie without a jacket? (colored button down shirt & brown slacks - business casual



## techman (Mar 8, 2011)

Every year I go to the Consumer Electronics trade show in Las Vegas. I've always worn some nice Lands End brown slacks and a high quality Nordstrom Smartcare button down shirt (blue, lavender), with brown leather shoes each day. I'm wondering if it's fashionably acceptable to also wear a tie, without a jacket or suit for a business casual environment like this. If so, what rules should I use in matching ties in this type of instance. I'm not representing a company in a booth, but rather an industry spectator that walks around the show floor to view all of the new and exciting products.


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## fullwindsor (Jul 11, 2011)

I generally avoid blue shirts and brown pants unless the pant are chinos. I would go with a plain white shirt with the brown slacks. If you want to wear the blue, or lavender shirt then I would opt for black, navy, or grey pants. Even a stone-colored pant would be okay.

As far as not wear a sport coat you can always dress up that jacket less shirt and tie with a button up cardigan. It works for Daniel Craig.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

If we avoid the peripheral cases,(*) in my view it is not wise to wear a shirt and tie without a jacket. It normally looks that the uniform of those who are compelled unwillingly to wear a tie but not a jacket by their work dress code. A much better way to dress up is to wear a jacket (suitably lightweight I would have thought for Vegas). 


(*) I mean unusual situations like wearing country kit (shooting jacket, V-neck, tattersall check shirt, wool tie and cords), etc.


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## Bassist (Jul 3, 2012)

*Shirt and tie without jacket*

To paraphrase a response from another member to a similar query: "Wearing a dress shirt and tie without a jacket will make you look like the manager of a fast food restaurant." That really struck me, as I have committed this transgression many times in the past...I come here to learn and to try to do better! :smile:

Joe


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Alan Flusser is among those who dislike a tie without a jacket, but my view is different. I wore a tie with v-necks, crewnecks and lab coats for decades as a university professor. I did not, however, wear one without one of those coverings, or a sport coat or suit jacket. I do agree that the tie just hanging off the shirt looks unfinished.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

fullwindsor said:


> I generally avoid blue shirts and brown pants unless the pant are chinos. I would go with a plain white shirt with the brown slacks. If you want to wear the blue, or lavender shirt then I would opt for black, navy, or grey pants. Even a stone-colored pant would be okay.
> 
> As far as not wear a sport coat you can always dress up that jacket less shirt and tie with a button up cardigan. It works for Daniel Craig.


This comment is meant in a lighthearted way, but it is dangerous logic to suggest that if Craig looks good in something, it is a good look. He has the build to carry it off well when others benefit exponentially from a tailored jacket!

Someone had a great picture about bow-ties which pictured a debonaire movie star from the golden era on one side, and a geeky middle manager on the other, both wearing bow ties. The captions read "What you think you look like" and "What you actually look like".



godan said:


> Alan Flusser is among those who dislike a tie without a jacket, but my view is different. I wore a tie with v-necks, crewnecks and lab coats for decades as a university professor. I did not, however, wear one without one of those coverings, or a sport coat or suit jacket. I do agree that the tie just hanging off the shirt looks unfinished.


+1. For the avoidance of doubt, a lab coat would definitely fall into one of my peripheral cases!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Sorry Balfour, I'm with the others -- the look is fine so long as you are wearing an outer layer of some kind.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Jovan said:


> Sorry Balfour, I'm with the others


Hey, if we all agreed, it would be pretty dull no?:biggrin2:


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

What a cop out! You will see my American way of doing things and agree with me, or else!!!

:icon_smile_big:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

What is the point of wearing an OCBD and a tie, absent a sport coat or other outer garment (waistcoat, cardigan, sweater vest, etc.) to complete the look? :icon_scratch:


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Where's Haffman? I thought we discussed this tie-coat issue last month?

Also, I'm having a hard time with the idea of brown slacks as being a preferred option in any business situation.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Bassist said:


> To paraphrase a response from another member to a similar query: "Wearing a dress shirt and tie without a jacket will make you look like the manager of a fast food restaurant." That really struck me, as I have committed this transgression many times in the past...I come here to learn and to try to do better! :smile:
> 
> Joe


I suppose it does, to that person and to some of the sticklers who post here. In a casual environment, if you want to wear a tie, wear it. A lot of me do; while it is not the best, I can think of far worse fashion sins. I do it a lot in the summer, when I want to spruce things up a bit, but it's too warm to relaly need a coat. If I go out for a walk on my lunch break in the summer and I dressed up that day, I'm not wearing a coat, but I'm also not taking my tie off to go for a walk and then put it back on just to please some sticklers on a message board.

Besides, can't we discuss the ways to make people look better without demeaning waiters and people who work in front line retail?


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## AMProfessor (Sep 9, 2011)

I think the OP is best served by advice that indicates not what you *can do* but what *looks best*. Sure, you *can* wear a shirt and tie but no jacket, but if you're trying to look your best that's not the optimal approach. A much better look IMO, if you are trying to stay biz casual but dress it up just a bit would be a nice cotton or wool unstructured sport coat/blazer.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

And, for Pete's sake, do not even try to pull it off with a short-sleeve dress shirt!


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

Sure. You can look like this







Or this









I would layer something, anything over that tie.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

I don't recommend this.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

godan said:


> I wore a tie with v-necks, crewnecks and lab coats for decades as a university professor. I did not, however, wear one without one of those coverings, or a sport coat or suit jacket. I do agree that the tie just hanging off the shirt looks unfinished.


Sensible.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

A tie without a jacket says one thing: Day-shift manager.


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

CuffDaddy said:


> A tie without a jacket says one thing: Day-shift manager.


 What's your point here?


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## StylinLa (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm not that formal of a guy really, but if I see someone dressed like that, I always aka myself in my head "where is his sport coat?"


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

StylinLa said:


> I'm not that formal of a guy really, but if I see someone dressed like that, I always aka myself in my head "where is his sport coat?"


Exactly: shirt, tie & odd jacket; shirt & odd jacket; or shirt all okay depending on the occasion. Shirt and tie, not so much. A V-neck jumper would be a far better way of adding something to a shirt (though probably not in Vegas!).


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

BluePincord said:


> What's your point here?


I thought it was self-explanatory. Ties worn without jackets* are communicative, as are many combinations of clothing. What they communicate is that the individual wearing them has the power to void a transaction in excess of $10, has the responsibility to make sure that Tammy's shift is covered while she is at traffic court, knows where the condiments are stored, and can count down the registers at the end of the day. Those who wish to communicate those messages are well served by the tie-no-jacket look. Those who don't want to be asked about the location of condensed milk or challenged about the fact that the customer's sandwich has mayonaise on it despite the fact that the customer _clearly_ said "no mayo" may want to go another way. JMHO, of course.

* Of course, there is the long-standing social understanding that most men doff their jackets in the office. These men constructively have jackets on for purposes of clothing communication, even when the jacket is hanging on the back of their door or the side of their cubicle. There is a similar understanding for doctors, especially if they sometimes wear a lab coat.


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Besides, can't we discuss the ways to make people look better without demeaning waiters and people who work in front line retail?





CuffDaddy said:


> A tie without a jacket says one thing: Day-shift manager.





BluePincord said:


> What's your point here?





CuffDaddy said:


> I thought it was self-explanatory. Ties worn without jackets* are communicative, as are many combinations of clothing. What they communicate is that the individual wearing them has the power to void a transaction in excess of $10, has the responsibility to make sure that Tammy's shift is covered while she is at traffic court, knows where the condiments are stored, and can count down the registers at the end of the day. Those who wish to communicate those messages are well served by the tie-no-jacket look. Those who don't want to be asked about the location of condensed milk or challenged about the fact that the customer's sandwich has mayonaise on it despite the fact that the customer _clearly_ said "no mayo" may want to go another way. JMHO, of course.


Quick question, CuffDaddy:

When looking down your nose at others, particularly those making an honest living, do you find it more advantageous to do so while wearing a suit or an odd jacket?


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## AMProfessor (Sep 9, 2011)

BluePincord said:


> Quick question, CuffDaddy:
> 
> When looking down your nose at others, particularly those making an honest living, do you find it more advantageous to do so while wearing a suit or an odd jacket?


Oh please. I am quite sure that CD needs no defending (he's quite capable of that himself), but I think it is pretty clear that he's just engaging in a bit of hyperbole to illustrate the point that that certain professions carry with them a particular style of dress, based firmly on both reality and stereotype, and along with that style of dress come associations with status and a particular image that is conveyed.

Are there decent, hard working used car salesmen out there? Absolutely. But if I say "he is dressed like a used car salesman", most people can come up with an image pretty easily. Same with security guard, or fast food manager, or mechanic. Nothing wrong with these professions, but they do have a stereotypical dress associated with them, for better or worse.


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