# Brooks Brothers Fall Backorders FAIL



## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

I ordered a couple of sweaters from the BB fall collection and they seem to be changing the shipping date every week. First it was 10/18 which was two weeks later than the order date, then it got delayed to 10/23, now it's 10/30. Anyone experience similar incidents? I'm starting to get really annoyed with this.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

It took me more than a month to get a pair of pants. When I called to cancel, they said it's too late and they already shipped them out.


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## rabidawg (Apr 14, 2009)

I was delayed about a month on two suits recently. Originally only one was backordered. Then I was updated that both were backordered. And then they pushed back the shipping date twice.

When they arrived, one was strangely very dirty and the other had odd stitching defects. These were lower-end travel suits, so no big deal. I returned them anyway.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Brooks Brothers, as a company, smacked a ham sandwich out of my hands on 2nd Avenue the other day. They're just not the company they used to be.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Last year, I ordered 4 items at the F&F. They put me on the shipping date permanently two weeks from now merry-go-round. After about 6 weeks of that, I contacted customer service to find out whats up. They said, one of the items was out of stock and they would send me the stuff when it was back in stock. Q:When will it be back in stock? A: Maybe 6 months, maybe never. So, I just cancelled that item and they sent the rest. 

Actually, the customer service can be helpful. So email and keep complaining.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

You will get the best customer service at BB if you avoid the catalog/website and work with a flesh-and-blood sales associate, preferably in one of the smaller, lower-volume stores. So, in NYC, don't got to 346, go to Rockefeller Center or the Broadway store. In Atlanta, don't go to Lenox, go to Peachtree or Perimeter. If you don't live near a BB, call one in a small to medium-size city: Louisville, Memphis, Richmond, Indianapolis, etc. I can even hook you up with my guy if you want to PM me.

It's not a guarantee that you'll get outstanding service, but it'll increase the odds.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

It is aggravating when they have a sale, like the just ended corporate discount sale and you order a white. blue and blue uni-stripe shirt and 2 of the 3 are _already_ backordered when the sale begins and you just know the date is a moving target. You never know when you'll get everything you order. I'm still waiting on a blue shirt from the last F&F sale. You wouldnthink they would stock up on the basics. (I got a pine, yellow and ecru right away.) None of the other on-line merchants I buy from seem to have this problem. Granted most are strictly on-line retailers w/o BM stores--but if you're going to be in the business...


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

I think I'll wait sometime before I cancel the order. I just e-mailed their customer service and demanded a $200 in-store free voucher :icon_smile_big:, and told them I am considering to stop doing business with them. I know they don't care, but someone at the company has to know that customers are unsatisfied, probably an old fashioned manager who still believes the customer is always right.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> It is aggravating when they have a sale, like the just ended corporate discount sale and you order a white. blue and blue uni-stripe shirt and 2 of the 3 are _already_ backordered when the sale begins and you just know the date is a moving target. You never know when you'll get everything you order. I'm still waiting on a blue shirt from the last F&F sale. You wouldnthink they would stock up on the basics. (I got a pine, yellow and ecru right away.) None of the other on-line merchants I buy from seem to have this problem. Granted most are strictly on-line retailers w/o BM stores--but if you're going to be in the business...


Plus their website always has some item descriptions wrong. But this back ordering thing, is just too much, if you can't manage your inventory properly then shut down the website.


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm waiting on the 3rd delay in shipping a simple 3/2 sack navy blazer. I guess I'm willing to wait as I have another blazer... or two or three:redface:, but it does suck as I expect to receive something if I can put it in my shopping cart. That is how most "real" on-line retailers work, but BB is perhaps typical of B&M retailers who spend a lot of time on the look of their websites for branding but not on the back end for function. Rant off, but I'm not counting on the blazer anytime soon...


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

O'Connell's seems to be able to fill orders at once. Great blazer and a nice roll on their OCBDs. Just sayin'


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Trip English said:


> O'Connell's seems to be able to fill orders at once. Great blazer and a nice roll on their OCBDs. Just sayin'


No knock on O'Connell's or their stock, but they're a small operation with a small staff, a small clientele, and immensely simpler logistics. Apples and oranges if you're comparing them to BB. Not that I'm defending BB's poor website service, but I do sympathize with the logistical challenges that a much larger company faces.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Their size should act to alleviate their logistical problems. That's how these things work.


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## johnnyman (Nov 15, 2007)

*Same here*

When I ordered everything was listed as being available, and continued to show as available. The original shipping date they had given to me was a full three weeks out from the order date. Usually I have my items within three or four days, so I called them. They shipped within a day or two and arrived two days after that. They had no real explanation other than to make it sounds as though the order was never pulled. One word of advice is to call rather than email, the customer service folks were very obliging.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

johnnyman said:


> When I ordered everything was listed as being available, and continued to show as available. The original shipping date they had given to me was a full three weeks out from the order date. Usually I have my items within three or four days, so I called them. They shipped within a day or two and arrived two days after that. They had no real explanation other than to make it sounds as though the order was never pulled. One word of advice is to call rather than email, the customer service folks were very obliging.


I don't think calling works either. I called, they said "back ordered".


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

I ordered a half dozen of regular fit shirts during the F&F sale as the local store does not carry them. After a week of the order being "in process" I emailed customer service to see what the delay was. I never got an answer from customer service but within 24 hours I got an email saying my order shipped. When I opened the package there were only five shirts instead of six. Called customer service and they shipped the missing shirt the same day.


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

Do you think anyone from BB bothers to read these forum pages to see what is generally a dedicated group of customers think of them?


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## rabidawg (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm sure there are BB retail folks here. Corporate, almost certainly not.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

It seems everything I want lately is on backorder until November. The desklamp Trip recommended, Nov 17, the Nespresso machine I got a very good deal on, Nov. 8, all of Brooks Bros: who knows! Recession? What recession? --Oh wait, it's there, I'm sure because law firms are still barely hiring.


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## Grenadier (Dec 24, 2008)

I have had a pair of corduroy trousers on backorder for six weeks...


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

hookem12387 said:


> Recession? What recession? --Oh wait, it's there, I'm sure because law firms are still barely hiring.


Recession may actually be contributing to the backorder problems: anticipating slower sales, retailers place smaller orders, which sell out faster and lead to long backorder times while more product is made.


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## hobscrk777 (Oct 16, 2009)

Not only has the shipping data on my OCBDs been pushed back and back, I sent an email to customer service a week ago asking to cancel the order and to date my order is still active and I have received no reply. I'm going to call them today to take care of it.


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## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

BB DOES have a facebook page that is very interactive...they've offered to help a # of customers who have left complaints on it. I suspect because those people are on a very public forum, they may get better service than the average customer.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

I've had pair of shoes on backorder since July 2nd. The ship date has been pushed out (a week or two at a time) so many times I've lost track. The order tracking page on the BB website now says November 6. I called customer service to see if they knew whether these shoes would ever arrive, and they don't. In fact, they can't even see the latest date that's on the website - their information shows the previous estimated ship date. I'm going to keep the order standing a while longer though, because there appears to be a long line of backorders for these shoes in my size - they are orderable from the BB site in pretty much any other size but mine. Don't want to lose my place in line!

hobscrk777 - I've also found (with another order) that sending emails to customer service to cancel orders no longer triggers any visible reaction. The customer service rep today told me she'd look into it.


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## Blues Tiger (Aug 26, 2010)

Similar problems here as well. I ordered two blue OCBD's and one white OCBD during the friends and family sale. The blue OCBD's shipped immediately while the white one was backordered for three weeks. When it finally arrived, they had sent the wrong size. I ordered a 16.5/33 and they sent a 15.5/33, however the packaging the shirt was in was correct, but the shirt itself was the wrong size. I sent an email to customer service two weeks ago and have not yet received a reply. This was my first order from BB's and probably my last if this is the service I can expect.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Legitimate gripes across the board. And certainly worth complaining about, but I still think BB offers an exceptional value at times. It is a rare day I order anything from them I need right away. When I do, I head down to the store. Just saying.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

How about a class action complaint against their lousy inventory management :idea: I asked for $200 already which I seriously doubt they'll pay.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

One thing to keep in mind when it comes to inventory is the ridiculous variety Brooks Brothers offers. Just in the must iron traditional fit, which the fewest different shirts available, they offer 6 different shirts in a total of 18 different flavors. For the 16 and 17 inch neckers, there are a total of 22 sizes available. That's 352 different shirts they need to keep on hand, just to have one in each size. Now to accommodate the 4 different fits that are available, we are talking 1,408 different shirts just to have one available. In regular fit, there are 29 different style and color combinations. Getting beyond the 16 and 17 inch neckers you are looking at 48 possible sizes. So just in regular fit, all sizes its 1,392 different shirts on hand. And that is just taking into account the must irons, add the non irons and the luxury shirts, and the numbers are staggering. Frankly, I don't know how they do it. Shop where you wish, I am sticking with the mothership.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Charles, you're wasting your breath. The type of thinking that makes people feel entitled to a chase settlement if they can't have exactly what they want when they want it is too pervasive to be changed with a reasoned argument. People deserve the world they're creating for themselves. That's why I'm buying the foxfire books and moving into the hills.


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

Charles Saturn said:


> One thing to keep in mind when it comes to inventory is the ridiculous variety Brooks Brothers offers. Just in the must iron traditional fit, which the fewest different shirts available, they offer 6 different shirts in a total of 18 different flavors. For the 16 and 17 inch neckers, there are a total of 22 sizes available. That's 352 different shirts they need to keep on hand, just to have one in each size. Now to accommodate the 4 different fits that are available, we are talking 1,408 different shirts just to have one available. In regular fit, there are 29 different style and color combinations. Getting beyond the 16 and 17 inch neckers you are looking at 48 possible sizes. So just in regular fit, all sizes its 1,392 different shirts on hand. And that is just taking into account the must irons, add the non irons and the luxury shirts, and the numbers are staggering. Frankly, I don't know how they do it. Shop where you wish, I am sticking with the mothership.


You may a good point, but I have seen this kind of selection in their B&M stores in big cities (Washington DC store just south of DuPont Circle) and smaller stores (New Orleans on Canal St.). You'd think BB would have a clue for the on-line business? Living in the semi-rural Midwest, the closest BB B&M is 100+ miles away, so I rely on on-line transactions.

Anyway, we kvetch and wait and in the end are hopefully satisfied. I may try to simple call a B&M BB store in advance of travel so I can pick up when I get there. Hmm, going to be in Boston and Washington DC for business travel next month....


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

The huge amount of inventory required to offer a variety of styles/fabrics in a full range of neck/sleeve sizes is one reason why Mercer's business plan makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, as this thread amply proves, people don't like to wait. : )

I've pretty much batted a thousand with BB; Shoemart on the other hand...: (


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

There is a pervasive attitude that as customers we should be handed the world on a silver platter. We ignore any difficulty or factor associated with running a business of any scale and our only metric is how well we're accommodated. It's not realistic and it's why many of us are forced by geography or finances to shop at big box stores and generic department stores.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Orgetorix said:


> I do sympathize with the logistical challenges that a much larger company faces.


I don't. These clothing vendors are in business for one reason - to gather dollars by putting pretty pieces of cloth and leather into all the hands that want them. I like Brooks, but I also understand that they can't or won't use well the host of resources they can call on to forecast demand, ensure supply of specific goods, and distribute them to us. Shame on them if they want to act as though Ethan isn't extremely good at this.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

bd79cc said:


> I don't. These clothing vendors are in business for one reason - to gather dollars by putting pretty pieces of cloth and leather into all the hands that want them. I like Brooks, but I also understand that they can't or won't use well the host of resources they can call on to forecast demand, ensure supply of specific goods, and distribute them to us. Shame on them if they want to act as though Ethan isn't extremely good at this.


I don't either and neither should anyone, they're not a charity organization. They're charging us so much money and making billions of dollars in revenue, so when I order something I better get it in a timely fashion. Can't they invest part of their revenue in hiring competent people who can manage their inventory properly?! Now, I see why Ralph Lauren is more successful, I never had any kind of problem ordering from polo.com. I've always been a Ralph Lauren customer since I was a kid, and recently when I decided to give Brooks Brothers a chance, they give it to me in the rear lol.


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## Cool Cal (Jan 19, 2007)

I don't think anyone here is advocating for people not to shop at Brooks Brothers. In fact, all the problems in this thread stem from the fact that we are trying to shop at the company. For many people, the online store is the only place to shop because brick & mortar stores are too far away. I also don't think people are complaining here about the lack of selection at the stores. For example, I'd like to buy a pair of moleskin trousers. I have an old pair from them and would like another. However, I can't buy a pair because the company doesn't have any in stock. But, that doesn't bother me because they do not advertise that any are in stock. 

What bothers me is when the company advertises that they have a product in stock, take my money, and then do not deliver for months. Does anyone think that Brooks would be happy if I bought a shirt from them and then, after the shirt was delivered to me, I said that my payment will be a couple of weeks late because my bank account is out of stock? They'd grab the shirt and then laugh me out of the store. Yet the company is happy to take my money now and make me wait forever. That's what upsets me.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Cool Cal said:


> I don't think anyone here is advocating for people not to shop at Brooks Brothers. In fact, all the problems in this thread stem from the fact that we are trying to shop at the company. For many people, the online store is the only place to shop because brick & mortar stores are too far away. I also don't think people are complaining here about the lack of selection at the stores. For example, I'd like to buy a pair of moleskin trousers. I have an old pair from them and would like another. However, I can't buy a pair because the company doesn't have any in stock. But, that doesn't bother me because they do not advertise that any are in stock.
> 
> What bothers me is when the company advertises that they have a product in stock, take my money, and then do not deliver for months. Does anyone think that Brooks would be happy if I bought a shirt from them and then, after the shirt was delivered to me, I said that my payment will be a couple of weeks late because my bank account is out of stock? They'd grab the shirt and then laugh me out of the store. Yet the company is happy to take my money now and make me wait forever. That's what upsets me.


I agree with you, and I'm still shopping at Brooks Brothers but I hate their lousy business ethics and management of their website.


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## DocVenture (Sep 30, 2010)

It might just be my experience, but whenever I order from BB and something doesn't ship immediately they don't charge me for it until it has shipped. Amazon operates the same way, I believe.


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## erbs (Feb 18, 2008)

Still waiting on a blue OCBD from the FF sale. If they anticipate a backorder, they should definitely state it upfront.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

DocVenture said:


> It might just be my experience, but whenever I order from BB and something doesn't ship immediately they don't charge me for it until it has shipped. Amazon operates the same way, I believe.


That's been my experience too. Are folks here getting charged for back ordered items?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Had this problem before with Brooks Brothers. Three months later, they finally said that it wouldn't be coming in. They didn't take my money upfront, though I'm a little pissed because I used my $10 off with it and don't think I can again.


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## kevinbelt (Dec 2, 2007)

I've worked in the mail-order clothing industry before, and I can say with authority that these things happen. It's part of doing business. You try to minimize it as much as possible, but it's always going to bite someone. The reason is, there's only so much you can do. 

I assume Brooks no longer manufactures much of its inventory itself. I assume they, like everyone else, rely on third-party suppliers. With that in mind, you're only as good as your suppliers. If your supply is late, you're late to your customers. Especially now, the trend is to use more than one supplier and to jump around from one guy to the next (and especially to go overseas). It's easy for something to go wrong. A factory catches fire, a ship sinks (this actually happened to me once), the supplier only employs two customer service guys and one goes on vacation unannounced. There's no way an inventory manager can control any of that.

I'm not excusing Brooks in all this. I just want to clarify where to place blame. The blame rests with the higher-ups who decided to outsource their manufacturing, and with the third-party suppliers. The inventory managers are doing the best they can. I would hate to think that some of my old customers thought my buyer was incompetent because of a backorder, when in reality he was one of the best workers I've ever known. It's not his fault he's working with crappy fly-by-night Chinese companies. 

If all else fails, as others have said, bricks and mortar are the best route. I've seen it advised that if you don't have a B&M store nearby, to call one elsewhere. Good advice. At least then, you're dealing with a person who knows what he's doing. Even that's not perfect, though. Larger firms create economies of scale, yes, but they also create opportunities for inefficiency. 

That may have been a bit ramble-y. I apologize. Best of luck resolving the back orders, gentlemen.

-k


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Cool Cal said:


> I don't think anyone here is advocating for people not to shop at Brooks Brothers. In fact, all the problems in this thread stem from the fact that we are trying to shop at the company. For many people, the online store is the only place to shop because brick & mortar stores are too far away. I also don't think people are complaining here about the lack of selection at the stores. For example, I'd like to buy a pair of moleskin trousers. I have an old pair from them and would like another. However, I can't buy a pair because the company doesn't have any in stock. But, that doesn't bother me because they do not advertise that any are in stock.
> 
> What bothers me is when the company advertises that they have a product in stock, take my money, and then do not deliver for months. Does anyone think that Brooks would be happy if I bought a shirt from them and then, after the shirt was delivered to me, I said that my payment will be a couple of weeks late because my bank account is out of stock? They'd grab the shirt and then laugh me out of the store. Yet the company is happy to take my money now and make me wait forever. That's what upsets me.


I'm going to admit I have only shopped Brooks Brothers in Toronto, unfortunately they only have so much space and don't carry everything they have on the website. Customer service at their bricks at bricks and mortar retail is some of the best I have experienced anywhere in North America.

Now while I have not shopped their website and hearing the stories here, the first question to ask is do they use the same warehouse for both retail stores and e-commerce? My guess from experience dealing with third party warehousing in a previous position sometimes a facility might be great for servicing a retail locations with replenishment orders but be utterly lousy at shipping two OCBDs, a pair of pants and a scarf to me here for sake of example.

If BB management is aware of this my suggestion from them is go to LL Bean and learn how they manage their warehouse facilities.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Uncle Bill said:


> Now while I have not shopped their website and hearing the stories here, the first question to ask is do they use the same warehouse for both retail stores and e-commerce? My guess from experience dealing with third party warehousing in a previous position sometimes a facility might be great for servicing a retail locations with replenishment orders but be utterly lousy at shipping two OCBDs, a pair of pants and a scarf to me here for sake of example.


I'm about 98% sure they have a warehouse for the catalog/internet direct marketing division that's separate from the distribution center for the retail stores.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

ME NO CARE!!! ME WANT FREE PANTS!!! BROOKS BROTHERS MAKE ME MAD!!!


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## jwa_jwa_jwa (Jul 13, 2010)

I ordered 2 long sleeve pullovers on Monday and they arrived today. Unfortunately I changed my mind about one of the items minutes after placing the order and sent a prompt email. 

I never did get a reply to the email and both items arrived today. Lesson to be learned: always call.

Btw, I have always been charged on the day the items ship out.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

I don't think any online retailer would charge you before shipping the items. Again, Brooks Brothers gets no excuse whatsoever. And yes, if they're gonna do this, they better tell the customers upfront.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Having been in the business of selling a product most of my life I am no stranger to how demanding customers can be. Often unreasonably so. Nevertheless...there is no excuse for poor customer service. I believe in bending over backwards to satisfy a customer because they can always choose to spend their hard earned dollars elsewhere. I just don't buy the excuse that because BB is sooooo large and has sooooo many products that they just can't be expected to get it consistantly right. They are the ones that choose to be in the e-commerce business. They owe their customers first rate consistantly excellent service. Nothing less.

I've placed many more orders over the years with Lands' End and LL Bean than with BB. They outsouce. They handle a huge range of sizes and products. Yet, I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the times either of these companies has really mishandled an order. In my experience, backorders with them are rare indeed. When they do get a complaint they go out of their way to make sure the customer is satisfied. LE is even owned by a huge conglomerate (Sears).

I have e-mailed BB customer service many times and typically do not even get the courtesy of a response. That is inexcusable and rude...period. I love some of their clothes. I've had mixed experiences with their sales people in their various stores. Very mixed results with their website and (in the day) their catalogue service. Frankly, I think they are basically snobs who think they are above most of the teeming masses who want the honor of wearing their clothing. But the world of commerce is changing.

Face it...we are clothing addicts and highly discriminating. I shop with them when I can get their ocbds and chinos at a decent price on sale. If that ever changes they will be a memory for me. Customers will put up with a lot, and are actually quite forgiving and understanding as a whole. They won't long tolerate rudeness, arrogance or incompetence and they certainly won't be ignored. If you commit those sins (and I've experienced them all at one time or another from BB) you'd better have a hell of a product...or someday you _will_ become replaced by someone who makes a good product and wants the business more.


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

Trip....easy lad....very entertaining though!

Seriously, BB could learn some things from LE and others on how to run an internet ordering operation.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

MidWestTrad said:


> Trip....easy lad....very entertaining though!
> 
> Trip gets that way when he gets an ingrown whisker from his beard.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Not to belabor but to reinforce the point...my back-ordered _blue ocbd_ was postponed again today. I would think if BB would have a hearty stock of anything it would be blue ocbds. But, there you go. I'm really tempted to just cancel it...but no one would notice.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> Not to belabor but to reinforce the point...my back-ordered _blue ocbd_ was postponed again today. I would think if BB would have a hearty stock of anything it would be blue ocbds. But, there you go. I'm really tempted to just cancel it...but no one would notice.


I am also tempted to cancel my order, but I'll wait sometime until the last straw breaks the camel's back. I ordered those sweaters so I can wear them in days like these :frown:, they would be useless if they arrive in winter or summer.


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## kevinbelt (Dec 2, 2007)

Blue is the most popular color. It sells out the quickest. 

-k


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## rabidawg (Apr 14, 2009)

kevinbelt said:


> Blue is the most popular color. It sells out the quickest.
> 
> -k


So they should stock more in blue, right?


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

camorristi said:


> Plus their website always has some item descriptions wrong. But this back ordering thing, is just too much, if you can't manage your inventory properly then shut down the website.


The funny thing is, they are managing their inventory "properly" if by "properly" we mean "in a way that saves THEM money."

It seems a fair surmise that they're straining to keep inventories (and hence overhead) low, and are practicing (or trying to practice) something resembling "just in time" stocking on a lot of items.

I'm sure the higher-ups @ Los Hermanos Brooks know that this is going to cheese off some customers b/c of the backorder delays involved, but they've probably made a cold-blood calculation that the strategy still makes good dollars-and-cents sense. Customers who get really angry and make a big stink can be mollified w/ "side payments" such free shipping or whatnot.

In other words: Our outrage has already been discounted.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

My order has been delayed for the fifth time now to 11/6/10 :mad2:..good going Brooks Brothers! Why don't we all bombard their customer service with dissatisfaction and taking business elsewhere e-mails? That should catch someone's attention. 1200 views in less than 5 days means something.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

PJC in NoVa said:


> The funny thing is, they are managing their inventory "properly" if by "properly" we mean "in a way that saves THEM money."
> 
> It seems a fair surmise that they're straining to keep inventories (and hence overhead) low, and are practicing (or trying to practice) something resembling "just in time" stocking on a lot of items.
> 
> ...


I have to say, I got my new fall collection sweaters at about 50% off, the cold-blooded calculation makes sense now. But they have no right to treat customers this way. Beggars can't be choosers, but I paid good money for this order.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Question for the Trads: suppose you're boycotting BB, where else would you take your business? what about Haspel?


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Trip English said:


> ME NO CARE!!! ME WANT FREE PANTS!!! BROOKS BROTHERS MAKE ME MAD!!!


Exactly.

Everyone who has ever been ripped off by Brooks Brothers raise hands.

Thought so.

The problem with folks these days is that immediate gratification has become so all-consuming that we want shirts in 1,400-whatever combinations, and we want them now. Right now. No excuses. My lord. And we can't be expected to pick up a telephone and dial a live person. Heaven forbid. _My email didn't get returned_.

Well, boo-freaking-hoo.

If you want your stuff right away, buy Golden Fleece and pay full freight, or go with O'Connell's or J. Press (now there's an outfit with top-notch Internet service). Go with Lifschitz or Lands End, for that matter--they'll get right back to you.

But give me a break when it comes to BB. Sorry to rant, but the crap I've read on this thread makes me want to run to the fridge for some cheese. Rather than pay with checks or money orders, we use PayPal, enriching some conglomerate by untold billions for providing nothing of worth but the means to obtain clothes none of us need RIGHT NOW so we can have it RIGHT NOW.

My gosh. Give BB a break. They're not perfect, but they're a way sight better than most retailers. If you're not happy, pay more. O'Connell's et al stands ready and willing. (And that's no knock against O'Connell's--it's a fabulous store). Just tired of the wither BB threads, I guess.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

32rollandrock said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Everyone who has ever been ripped off by Brooks Brothers raise hands.
> 
> ...


A couple of three things, first of all, no one is talking about being ripped off by Brooks Brothers, I won't even go there. Second of all, it's offensive to call the man Lifshitz after he's officially changed his name to Lauren. Third of all, at this point BB gets no break/excuse because they have not admitted fault or apologized for any delays. But hey, you're free to voice your opinion no matter how selfish it would make you sound. Some of us have valid and legitimate reasons to be upset with BB.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

^^^
I _might_ agree with you if they posted a notice on their website that orders are often delayed due to a lack of advertised merchandise in their present inventory. If their customer service e-mail stated that you should not necessarily expect them to reply to your queries. But if they are going to enter the competitive arena and present themselves as an e-commerce business you have a right as a customer to expect the same level of service you would get from their competitors. It's a "bunch of crap" IMO to blame the customer for the merchant's lack of consideration and disclosure.

Yes...we are spoiled. By other merchants who seemingly care more about the people who spend money with them than BB often does. We don't really need to be lectured.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

So far as I am concerned, Lifshitz will always be Lifshitz--I have my own reasons that make any complaints about BB pale in comparison (and if anyone wants to hear the story again, please ask--I'll tell it as many times as I have listeners). As far as these other complaints about BB--and I honestly don't want to turn this into The Other Forum--I think folks need to get over themselves. If you don't like BB's customer service, go elsewhere. They didn't take your money without providing goods. In my experience, they don't charge your card until they ship. I've gone the back order route with BB, and when it didn't come through, I figured, oh, well--it was a great deal I should've jumped on sooner. I've also had disagreements with BB over substandard goods or what I believed to be bait-and-switch that I have always been able to solve amicably. I've always found a live person I could speak with, and that live person has always been courteous, and that live person has always solved my problem. Without exception. And that's a heckuva lot more than you can say about Macy's or the like.

So keep hating BB if you must. But so far as my money is concerned, they are honest and they do the best that they can. And, yes: I think you are spoiled, and that, ultimately, is to your detriment. I'd rather wait a few weeks for BB than get a shipping cart-o-crap from Lifshitz any day. Your complaints, IMHO, are petty.

Lecture over.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

After delaying my order that I placed on 9/23 to 11/13 I just asked them to cancel my order. Polo gets my business.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

camorristi said:


> After delaying my order that I placed on 9/23 to 11/13 I just asked them to cancel my order. Polo gets my business.


You realize you are now dead to '32'.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

32rollandrock said:


> So far as I am concerned, Lifshitz will always be Lifshitz--I have my own reasons that make any complaints about BB pale in comparison (and if anyone wants to hear the story again, please ask--I'll tell it as many times as I have listeners). As far as these other complaints about BB--and I honestly don't want to turn this into The Other Forum--I think folks need to get over themselves. If you don't like BB's customer service, go elsewhere. They didn't take your money without providing goods. In my experience, they don't charge your card until they ship. I've gone the back order route with BB, and when it didn't come through, I figured, oh, well--it was a great deal I should've jumped on sooner. I've also had disagreements with BB over substandard goods or what I believed to be bait-and-switch that I have always been able to solve amicably. I've always found a live person I could speak with, and that live person has always been courteous, and that live person has always solved my problem. Without exception. And that's a heckuva lot more than you can say about Macy's or the like.
> 
> So keep hating BB if you must. But so far as my money is concerned, they are honest and they do the best that they can. And, yes: I think you are spoiled, and that, ultimately, is to your detriment. I'd rather wait a few weeks for BB than get a shipping cart-o-crap from Lifshitz any day. Your complaints, IMHO, are petty.
> 
> Lecture over.


While I'm on friendlier terms with Mr. L than you, I stand by you in the heartiest terms when denouncing cry-babyism and entitlement. Feeling that you should have everything exactly when you want it makes life much harder for you and much harder for those around you. Next time you want to complain about your expensive shirt's coming later than you'd like, go drive to a homeless shelter and tell them how upset you are. I'm sure you'll find a willing ear and a shoulder to cry on. If back-ordered clothing arouses anything beyond an "awe shucks" you need to re-examine your priorities.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Saltydog said:


> You realize you are now dead to '32'.


On the contrary. Everyone has a right to patronize whomever they wish. Full disclosure, I wear Lifshitz stuff (indeed, a fine pair of his trousers arrived today from Georgia), but none of it came directly from The Devil Incarnate, so my vow to never give that sorry-excuse-for-a-human-being a nickel remains intact.

As for customer service Halloween tales, I am now locked in mortal combat with the dreaded AT&T--if anyone thinks they have it bad with BB, try these vampires. They are completely unfamiliar with the term "Can you hear me now."

Back to your regularly scheduled thread...


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## 1WB (Sep 25, 2008)

Here's another $0.02: Brooks Brothers is NOT solely an e-tailer, nor even a bricks & mortar retailer, for that matter. Although to a lesser extent than in the past, BB is still a maker of clothing. Polo, O'Connell's, etc. are not makers of clothing.

BB purchased Southwick, and invested MILLIONS to build a new production facility in the USA (and in fact retained all its existing employees and created new jobs) -- rather than allow Southwick production to shift to Thailand, etc.

BB also makes its own ties in the USA.

If you think the men's clothing retail business in America would be better off without them, then power to you. I do not.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> You realize you are now dead to '32'.


Who am I, schifosa K Corleone?! :icon_smile_big: I will buy BB, but from stores only, especially from that cute Ukrainian girl at the Indianapolis store. Polo might be overpriced, for example a lambs wool sweater costs $145 at Polo and $89 at BB, but Polo offers better customer service.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

1WB said:


> Here's another $0.02: Brooks Brothers is NOT solely an e-tailer, nor even a bricks & mortar retailer, for that matter. Although to a lesser extent than in the past, BB is still a maker of clothing. Polo, O'Connell's, etc. are not makers of clothing.
> 
> BB purchased Southwick, and invested MILLIONS to build a new production facility in the USA (and in fact retained all its existing employees and created new jobs) -- rather than allow Southwick production to shift to Thailand, etc.
> 
> ...


For the millionth time, yes, I agree that BB makes great merchandise. But my ONLY point is, their online customer service and inventory management sucks. End of story.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

camorristi said:


> Who am I, schifosa K Corleone?! :icon_smile_big: I will buy BB, but from stores only, especially from that cute Ukrainian girl at the Indianapolis store. Polo might be overpriced, for example a lambs wool sweater costs $145 at Polo and $89 at BB, but Polo offers better customer service.


What's wrong with American girls?

(Just kidding).


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

32rollandrock said:


> What's wrong with American girls?
> 
> (Just kidding).


They are always backordered and unless you go to the brick and mortar store you have to wait forever.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Is BB going down the pan or something? So many people have items on 6 week back orders with them, along with many pushed-back shipping dates. No stock in the warehouse? Poor logistics? It's all on the slow boat from China perhaps? .... I think it's the latter.

So one orders garments especially for the summer, and hopefully BB will deliver them in the autumn?


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> So one orders garments especially for the summer, and hopefully BB will deliver them in the autumn?


You got it :teacha:.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Just as a point of information, I ordered 9 OCBDs this past sale weekend and received all but two (red uni-stripe). So I guess it could be a matter of sizing, color, or any other number of factors.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Trip English said:


> While I'm on friendlier terms with Mr. L than you, I stand by you in the heartiest terms when denouncing cry-babyism and entitlement. Feeling that you should have everything exactly when you want it makes life much harder for you and much harder for those around you. Next time you want to complain about your expensive shirt's coming later than you'd like, go drive to a homeless shelter and tell them how upset you are. I'm sure you'll find a willing ear and a shoulder to cry on. If back-ordered clothing arouses anything beyond an "awe shucks" you need to re-examine your priorities.


You make a very good point Trip. Very good indeed and who could not agree. However--aren't most of our postings here a study in self absorbtion and materialism? Our clothing hobby is a guilty--but mostly harmless--pleasure. We take the slightest things seriously when it comes to the roll of our button downs or the threatened extinction of the 3/2 sack.
I hope that none of us put any of this ahead of the greater and weighter matters of humanity. If so, we should immediately take the advice of the Master and sell it all and give the money to the poor! But we are having fun! Of course I will still buy from Brooks Brothers. I'll probably gripe on threads like this about not getting what I want when I want it. But in the larger sense it is all with tongue firmly implanted in cheek--though I am very serious when it comes to customer service. The moment I lose one second's sleep over a backorder--I will repent in sackcloth and ashes. Or at least hopsack and ashes..... preferably with a 3/2 lapel. Thus endeth today's sermonette.


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## MidWestTrad (Aug 14, 2010)

BB could take some lessons from LE on how to run a catalog business.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

Orgetorix said:


> I'm about 98% sure they have a warehouse for the catalog/internet direct marketing division that's separate from the distribution center for the retail stores.


If that's the case BB better start sorting things out if they want to keep the mail order/Online business.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

PJC in NoVa said:


> The funny thing is, they are managing their inventory "properly" if by "properly" we mean "in a way that saves THEM money."
> 
> It seems a fair surmise that they're straining to keep inventories (and hence overhead) low, and are practicing (or trying to practice) something resembling "just in time" stocking on a lot of items.
> 
> ...


I'm now sort of wondering if BB is maxing out their inventory turns with the online portion of the business. For those not in retail, inventory turn is the amount of time stock sits on your shelf. You want as many inventory turns as you can with a particular stock item. Having a mountain of say blue OCBDs on the shelf is not good, it's sitting there doing nothing relatively speaking.

If you control that amount of Blue OCBDs to a point you're down to one or two shirts in stock while a new shipment is on the receiving dock, you're doing good in terms of inventory management.

If BB has a separate pick and pack facility for online/mail order business, they have to up their inventory management game.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

For those who are trying to guilt trip us and talking about homeless shelters:

FYI retailers like BB and RL (Pink Pony, and BB donated to some children's hospital) donate a lot of money to charity from the profits of their sales..which means part of your money is going to charity.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I hope the homeless will understand the next time they ask for some spare change and I simply tug on my cashmere sweater with a knowing wink and breeze right on past.


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## Luckycharmboi2 (May 30, 2009)

I had an interesting backorder experience recently. I ordered something which indicated a backorder, and got a few e-mails moving the date out later and later. Eventually, when i checked status on the order, the wbesite indicated that the "line" had been cancelled. (This was something ordered as part of one of the sales). 

So, I re-ordered the item from the website on the next round of sales. Unknown to me, the item that had cancelled was shipped from one of the stores at full price (a good $150 more than I paid when i ordered it the first time, or re-ordered it). So, I ended up with 2 of the same thing. Going to send the higher-priced one back next week. 

For the most part, the internet business IS separate from the brick and mortar retail business, because a lot of things that are sold out on the internet, can be found by the salespeople at other stores. So if you really want something that is sold out on the website, call one of the salespeople. I've had good luck with them finding items which are sold out on the website, and one of the salespeople confirmed for me that the stores' inventories are separate from the internet business inventory. 

Let me add, BB is much maligned on this site, but I still REALLY like BB. But, I'm getting concerned over how much stuff is now being made offshore (esp in the far east). An awful lot of the tailored clothing (eg. the Harris tweed jackets, most all of the summer suits, even some of the camel hair 3/2 sack sport coats) is being made in Thailand, or worse yet, in China. While I've not found any objective difference in quality between the U.S. made stuff, it still bothers me. And this season, virtually all of the sweaters (except the pure Cashmere which is still made in Scotland at a mill in which BB has an ownership interest) are being made in CHina, including the Scottish lambswool and Italian Merinos.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Trip English said:


> I hope the homeless will understand the next time they ask for some spare change and I simply tug on my cashmere sweater with a knowing wink and breeze right on past.


This made me lough loud :icon_smile_big:


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

That Trip is a trip!


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

MidWestTrad said:


> BB could take some lessons from LE on how to run a catalog business.


That's all _I'm_ saying. I salute your succientness.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

MidWestTrad said:


> BB could take some lessons from LE on how to run a catalog business.


LE could take some lessons from BB on how to make top-end garments. I'm just saying.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

32rollandrock said:


> LE could take some lessons from BB on how to make top-end garments. I'm just saying.


I'm glad we can all learn something from each other (BB's backorders still sucks), now, how mature would that be?! :teacha:


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I don't know guys, Brooks does seem to really have a problem with backorders and shipping delays.

It's obviously small potatoes compare to everything else wrong in the world (although what on the trad forum isn't?), but it can be frustrating.
Especially for a company with a reputation like Brooks' and a company that, in my experience, usually has had great customer service.

I can see the argument that you don't hold a brick and mortar store to the same standard as a mail-order place like Bean, LE or STP, but BB obviously wants to enter this domain (I mean they send me facebook updates daily).

Not trying to whine, not saying I'm boycotting BB. Just something they could improve upon.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I don't know guys, Brooks does seem to really have a problem with backorders and shipping delays.


Seems to me that when a company gets into this situation with many long delays and backorders. Is that they just might be in financial trouble or have a cashflow problem.

I've seen this happen a few times with furniture companies. People order beds and sofas and things, the promised shipping dates keep on getting pushed back, next thing you know the company has collapsed.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

It seems that the back orders are limited to the types of items we like to buy. I think it we were going for the modern cuts we'd be in high cotton. Doesn't bode so poorly for Brooks Brothers, just for us.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

As long as shipping and labour is relatively cheap, you are going to see offshore products. Now if the price of oil goes about say $120 USD per barrel, the equation changes and you might see more items back in North America.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Trip English said:


> It seems that the back orders are limited to the types of items _we like to buy_.


Here I should mention that in my experience ordering from BB.com (limited compared to others here), I've never had a back order, or out of stock problem on a non-sale, non-clearance item.

We trads are a thrifty bunch.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

They just shipped one of items in my order and canceled the line everything else. I guess the homeless shelter gets my business after all :icon_smile_big:


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## martinchristopher (Jun 3, 2005)

I ordered the Donegal Tweed suit, and as usual, I was told it was backordered. I will just assume I will never get it.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Call. A. Store.

But I repeat myself.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I've driven to the edge of the forest and shouted my order into the darkness for three weeks now. Not a single pair of moleskine trousers has arrived. I'm tempted to stop leaving money in the stump. Clearly Brooks Brothers is on the verge of collapse.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

Trip English said:


> Not a single pair of moleskine trousers has arrived.


Dear Mr. Trip:

When we have trapped a sufficient number of moles to to make your trousers, we will most certainly fulfill your order. We thank you for your patience.

- Brooks Brothers


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Trip English said:


> I've driven to the edge of the forest and shouted my order into the darkness for three weeks now. Not a single pair of moleskine trousers has arrived. I'm tempted to stop leaving money in the stump. Clearly Brooks Brothers is on the verge of collapse.


I feel your pain, I've sent them 3 e-mails and got no reply. Actually they replied my last e-mail to confirm canceling the line (I don't have your patience to wait until summer). They didn't say a single about the $200 compensation I asked for though.

A proper example of great customer service:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...heesed-with-AE-exchange&p=1157776#post1157776


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Racer said:


> Dear Mr. Trip:
> 
> When we have trapped a sufficient number of moles to to make your trousers, we will most certainly fulfill your order. We thank you for your patience.
> 
> - Brooks Brothers


Having to wait for a BB order for so long is a painful ordeal, and nothing to joke about. I've been there.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Orgetorix said:


> Call. A. Store.


This is the lesson I'll take from this thread.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

OK. Let me see if I have this straight. The closest B&M store to me is about a 2 1/2 hour drive. Sometimes they have what I'm looking for--sometimes not. But mainly I buy things that don't need alterations and I know my size. I have molding away in a drawer $60 worth of their plastic coupons for using my Brooks card that can only be used in a store. A $60 discount, while nice, is not worth a 5 hour round trip for 3 shirts or a couple pair of chinos. Could I call and ask for a sales person and explain that I would rather do business with the store than on line. There is a current 25% off Preferred Customer discount. So if I agreed to give him my future business rather than go on line, and that I wanted the 3 for shirt deal, would he make sure they had the shirts in stock, allow me to get the discount and mail him my cards for a further $60 off and mail the shirts to me? Thereby eliminating the whole website experience. Is that the way it is best done? Sure would be simpler that way and I could use the coupons. If so then I would always just: Call. A. Store. (That's a good name for someone to use!)


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

It appears that BB places a priority on their B&M customers and encourages people to shop in the store vs internet. With dress clothes now being shipped directly to people's homes, there are probably less people who are getting their clothes properly tailored. I would think that returns are much higher with internet sales than they are with in-store. Plus, it defeats one of the purposes of shopping B&M... personal attention. Perhaps the real purpose of BB online is to increase in-store foot traffic.

I work with one person in the Charlotte store. Since I live about an hour away from BB, if I need something, she will order it for me and either ship it to the house if it's non-tailored or have it for me waiting at the store if it requires adjustments. It is easy to pay cc by phone and my contact can look in the computer to see what is available in the network. I'm tall, so walking in the store and finding stuff is normally out of the question. Even if I only buy stuff there once or twice a year, I usually stop in once a month to say hello. This system works for me, but if you live far away from a store, perhaps the best solution is to shop elsewhere. I've never purchased anything from O'Connells or J.Press for this very reason.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> This is the lesson I'll take from this thread.


 Same here. But unlike Bandit, I don't mind getting things hemmed or taken in that I've bought online or over the phone.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

camorristi said:


> Having to wait for a BB order for so long is a painful ordeal, and nothing to joke about. I've been there.


It's not a joke - it's painfully life-and-death serious. Just like this thread.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Brooks Brothers has completely lost focus on orders howled into the wilderness and payments tucked away in stumps. It's a wicked ploy to cow us into shopping in their stores where all the eye contact and germs are. Despicable.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Saltydog said:


> OK. Let me see if I have this straight. The closest B&M store to me is about a 2 1/2 hour drive. Sometimes they have what I'm looking for--sometimes not. But mainly I buy things that don't need alterations and I know my size. I have molding away in a drawer $60 worth of their plastic coupons for using my Brooks card that can only be used in a store. A $60 discount, while nice, is not worth a 5 hour round trip for 3 shirts or a couple pair of chinos. Could I call and ask for a sales person and explain that I would rather do business with the store than on line. There is a current 25% off Preferred Customer discount. So if I agreed to give him my future business rather than go on line, and that I wanted the 3 for shirt deal, would he make sure they had the shirts in stock, allow me to get the discount and mail him my cards for a further $60 off and mail the shirts to me? Thereby eliminating the whole website experience. Is that the way it is best done? Sure would be simpler that way and I could use the coupons. If so then I would always just: Call. A. Store. (That's a good name for someone to use!)


That's _exactly_ how it would work best for you.



Bandit44 said:


> It appears that BB places a priority on their B&M customers and encourages people to shop in the store vs internet.


If so, it's unintentional on their part. I'm pretty sure they think their direct marketing operation works just great. When I worked for them, I occasionally saw business reports touting how much the DM division had grown in recent years.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

^^^
Valuable info. Thanks.


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

They also just recently relocated all of their catalog operations to another state, and are starting over with a completely new staff. This has much to do with it, however they were already riddled with issues of reliability for months prior.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

You know, I have to say I think that the DM growth might be a result of "a rising tide lifts all boats" - shoppers using the Internet in general has increased in the past few years. Some of us who are more, well, "net-savvy" may have been shopping online for 15 years now, and so it's easy to take it for granted and not realize that it's really "gone mainstream" relatively recently. 

To concisely put it - I think BB's online operations almost couldn't help having increasing sales, so long as they were not utterly impossible to use. I don't say anything about catalog sales, as I know little about them, but I would imagine they've been declining as the Internet has risen, which seems to be the impression I've gotten from other retailers who are more public about such things (Penny's & Sears, for example).

I would also like to say that the email spam I get from BB is ridiculous. The past month's email history: September 27, 28, again on the 28th, 29th, October 1, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15, 17, 19, 22, 26 and 27. That's 17 emails in the past 31 days, though I do admit that includes multiple emails reminding me of two separate 25% off sales. I DO appreciate those, as I do the clearance notification emails... and occasionally it's nice to browse... but golly, that's a lot of email for somewhere I don't even purchase directly from except for ~4-6 times a year! Suffice to say their direct marketing seems quite... active!


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

On Tuesday I ordered a new sweater from Taobao as its getting a bit cooler now. It arrived today, which is like 48 hours from ordering to delivery. Now if I had ordered with Brooks, would my winter sweater have come next April? (assuming I was in the USA)


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> Now if I had ordered with Brooks, would my winter sweater have come next April? (assuming I was in the USA)


Not my experience, I ordered two on a Sunday, at my house the following Saturday, a week ago.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Saltydog said:


> Not to belabor but to reinforce the point...my back-ordered _blue ocbd_ was postponed again today. I would think if BB would have a hearty stock of anything it would be blue ocbds. But, there you go. I'm really tempted to just cancel it...but no one would notice.


I got another notice this morning that my blue ocbd has been postponed to yet another date. I'm beginning to take a perverse kind of pleasure in seeing just how long it will take them to get it to me. After this, i will have to try calling a B&M store. I'd do it this time but it is the 3rd shirt in a 3'fer deal. Doubt they would sell me one for $50. Maybe it will arrive in time to be a present to myself for Christmas!


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

Y'all may be aware of this, but the days of the free store-to-store transfer are also over. You can still have something from direct marketing sent to a brick-and-mortar store for free, but if your sales associate has to cull it from another store, you'll have to pay for it first.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

My Pet said:


> They also just recently relocated all of their catalog operations to another state, and are starting over with a completely new staff. This has much to do with it, however they were already riddled with issues of reliability for months prior.


If that's the case, I am not surprised there are teething problems.


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## ctt (Dec 24, 2008)

My Pet said:


> Y'all may be aware of this, but the days of the free store-to-store transfer are also over. You can still have something from direct marketing sent to a brick-and-mortar store for free, but if your sales associate has to cull it from another store, you'll have to pay for it first.


If you were going to the store to examine the product first, it wouldn't be a big deal to return the product while you are there.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> I got another notice this morning that my blue ocbd has been postponed to yet another date. *I'm beginning to take a perverse kind of pleasure in seeing just how long it will take them to get it to me.* After this, i will have to try calling a B&M store. I'd do it this time but it is the 3rd shirt in a 3'fer deal. Doubt they would sell me one for $50. Maybe it will arrive in time to be a present to myself for Christmas!


and that's how his pain became pleasure...

(that's how I would start a homoerotic novel, if I were to write one about Brooks Brothers) :icon_smile_big:


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

ctt said:


> If you were going to the store to examine the product first, it wouldn't be a big deal to return the product while you are there.


This is tougher to explain to people who are used to the old service than it sounds. But I agree.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Every time I read this growing thread about BB's backorders and long shipping times. I see a banner advert for Brooks Brothers "Generations of style".. Ah the wonders of targeted advertising.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

MikeDT said:


> Every time I read this growing thread about BB's backorders and long shipping times. I see a banner advert for Brooks Brothers "Generations of style".. Ah the wonders of targeted advertising.


Online marketing at it's finest.


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## MKC (Sep 10, 2010)

Orgetorix said:


> Call. A. Store.


Good advice for any of the favorites -- Press, O'Connell's, Eljo's, Hansen's. So I called a nearby Brooks store during the September Friends & Family, seeking three must-iron OCBDs. They couldn't have been nicer or more helpful. But it still took nearly a month.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

I received notice this morning that the shipping date of my blue ocbd has been extended yet again. As I stated earlier, I'm beginning to take a perverse pleasure in seeing how long it will take to get a simple blue ocbd delivered. There is a 25% off sale going on right now. I _might_ be tempted--but what's the point of ordering when I'm still waiting on items from the 25% off sale time before last?

They always give me the option of canceling. Oh, I think they would like that! No, no, no! I'm determined to get that damn shirt for $50 if they have to deliver it to my funeral!!! Doesn't bother me to wait. Not getting to me at all. Whahahahahahahahahha.....I'll show 'em.

On the other hand, I e-mailed the B&M store 2 hours away and asked if they could have a sales associate in the men's department respond. I said that I would like to establish a relationship with them so that I could order items directly from the store. 4 days later...no one has bothered to respond. Guess they can't be bothered. Too bad, somebody is going to lose a fair amount of commission over time.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Saltydog said:


> On the other hand, I e-mailed the B&M store 2 hours away and asked if they could have a sales associate in the men's department respond. I said that I would like to establish a relationship with them so that I could order items directly from the store. 4 days later...no one has bothered to respond. Guess they can't be bothered. Too bad, somebody is going to lose a fair amount of commission over time.


Unfortunately, BB for some reason is rather backward in this area. Associates don't have access to email and pretty much have to do all their customer interaction over the phone or in person.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

^^^
Well, if and when I get back to the store I will probably talk to a sales associate--hopefully someone who is a longtimer there and not on their way out the door--about setting up a long distance ordering arrangement. On the other hand, I'm not comfortable calling the store and asking to speak to just anyone in the mens dept. since I'd like to have some idea that who I'm dealing with knows what they are doing. 

While, as stated earlier, I understand and am empathic with the realities of business...I still believe that there is no substitute for outstanding customer service. In my years of experience with BB--both online and in store--I have found it to be spotty at best. I've had outstanding experiences with sales associates. I've also had horrendous experiences. One would think they would place more emphasis on sales training and customer service guidelines and hold their employees accountable. The company I work for does...and as a manager of a local business unit I certainly do as well. No one is too big to ignore their base for long without consequences. I hardly think there are enough "bluebloods" left to support BB as big as they are now. If you are going to market to the masses--you'd best respect them. Not just occasionally. All the time. (Ask congress!)


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## johnnyman (Nov 15, 2007)

After re-reading this thread last night I remembered that I still had an item outstanding from an order I placed on September 23. I had received part of the order, but only after calling twice after seeing that nothing had shipped after two weeks. I called Customer Service and the rep told me the item was "being pulled for shipping tomorrow." Of course this morning I get a en email from Brooks telling me that shipping will now be delayed until November 25. They have no response for why an item, confirmed as being in stock when I placed the order, would take two months...so far. They used to be very reliable, and now I can't imagine doing business with them again.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

johnnyman said:


> They used to be very reliable, and now I can't imagine doing business with them again.


I've had some questionable experiences with "The Brothers", and I often feel this way. Ultimately, and I'm sure the company wouldn't be happy with it, I'm only interested in doing business with BB at ultra-discounted prices. Even then I'm not totally happy. Basically there are a few nice items that I'd purchase at great discount, and everything else is either over priced or of middling quality.


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> Unfortunately, BB for some reason is rather backward in this area. Associates don't have access to email and pretty much have to do all their customer interaction over the phone or in person.


Some stores just started providing e-mail addresses for their associates, actually. It's fairly new, so we'll see how it goes.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

My Pet said:


> Some stores just started providing e-mail addresses for their associates, actually. It's fairly new, so we'll see how it goes.


Well, that's good to hear. It used to frustrate me no end when I worked there.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Today is the last day of the Brooks Bros. Preferred Customer Sale--as they keep reminding me by e-mail--with 25% off when you use your Brooks Card. Since I still have a blue ocbd on backorder after backorder from the F&F sale (or was it another sale?) I thought I would put a blue and white in the basket to see if they actually had them in stock. Nope...both would not be shipped before Dec. 10 I believe. (Which tells me I've got a few more back orders to go on my order plus the fact that if I order shirts today I probably wouldn't get them until well into the new year.) We've beaten this dead horse enough I suppose--but I just thought this was so indicative of the problems with their e-commerce business we've been carrying on about. No doubt, before the aforementioned shirts ship, they will be advertising their after Christmas sale.


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## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

Wisco said:


> I'm waiting on the 3rd delay in shipping a simple 3/2 sack navy blazer. I guess I'm willing to wait as I have another blazer... or two or three:redface:, but it does suck as I expect to receive something if I can put it in my shopping cart. That is how most "real" on-line retailers work, but BB is perhaps typical of B&M retailers who spend a lot of time on the look of their websites for branding but not on the back end for function. Rant off, but I'm not counting on the blazer anytime soon...


Just an update. My 3/2 sack blazer showed up on Friday. No e-mail or other notification. Interestingly it included a hand written note from someone at the 346 Madison Ave. store thanking me for waiting and noting that I could take the blazer into any B&M store for free alterations. Interesting.... did BB finally relent and give the website order to a B&M store to fulfill? I'm happy with the blazer, but intrigued with the on-going problems with inventory.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Why I Hate Brooks Brothers, Chapter 6,728

Mrs. 32 and I decided that a monogrammed flannel nightshirt would make a nice Christmas gift for a friend. So I got on the web tonight and, egads, no monogramming option was available online, even as I stared at the lovely Mrs. 32 across the table from me in a fetching BB nightshirt, monogrammed. I called the customer service number and, while a nice lady answered on the second ring, she politely said she couldn't help. What the hey, I thought, I'll call a store. I dialed the one closest to me (a good 100 miles distant) and Scott took my call. Can't see why not, he said. Within minutes, all was again good with the world, and no charge for shipping.

I despise talking to real people, but I guess that's the only way to deal with Brooks Brothers.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

For the staggeringly large number of folks out there keeping count:wink2: I must report that on the day my long awaited blue ocbd was to have been shipped (today) I received another notice that it had again been delayed by another couple of weeks. I finally decided to stop the madness and cancelled the order. (Besides, my diet is finally beginning to work and I will hopefully have gone down a size by the time it would have finally got here.) And thus ends this edition of the saga.


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## Racer (Apr 16, 2010)

For every negative, there's a positive. You cancelled your order, my long-awaited shoe order is scheduled to arrive on my doorstep tomorrow! :icon_cheers:


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> For the staggeringly large number of folks out there keeping count:wink2: I must report that on the day my long awaited blue ocbd was to have been shipped (today) I received another notice that it had again been delayed by another couple of weeks. I finally decided to stop the madness and cancelled the order. (Besides, my diet is finally beginning to work and I will hopefully have gone down a size by the time it would have finally got here.) And thus ends this edition of the saga.


Salty, I am curious, did you order an unusual size? Just seems so weird that a single blue shirt would give them such a problem. I made several different shirt orders recently without any difficulty.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

After numerous setbacks and delays in delivering my shirts, Brooks Brothers has started sending representatives to my home to remove shirts I've already received and holding them indefinitely. I attempted to e-mail Brooks Brothers at an address I assumed to be accurate and have so far received no response. I'm frankly outraged at their behavior and am thinking about shopping at Hugo Boss. I have always wanted to try a triple windsor anyway.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Saltydog: You should have given them an ultimatum. Send a shirt from a B&M store or never get your business again. :devil:


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Charles Saturn said:


> Salty, I am curious, did you order an unusual size? Just seems so weird that a single blue shirt would give them such a problem. I made several different shirt orders recently without any difficulty.


17.5 X 36. Usually not this big a problem. Maybe when I finish losing weight I'll be a couple sizes smaller...but again, hasn't been this big a hassle in the past.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> 17.5 X 36. Usually not this big a problem. Maybe when I finish losing weight I'll be a couple sizes smaller...but again, hasn't been this big a hassle in the past.


Strange indeed, they just sent me a few blue 17.5 X 35's, in the "hard to find" "only available if you know the secret handshake" regular fit, no less. Mysteriously, my neck recently grew a 1/2 inch, for no apparent reason, so I am thankful that they were able to place my order.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Trip English said:


> After numerous setbacks and delays in delivering my shirts, Brooks Brothers has started sending representatives to my home to remove shirts I've already received and holding them indefinitely. I attempted to e-mail Brooks Brothers at an address I assumed to be accurate and have so far received no response. I'm frankly outraged at their behavior *and am thinking about shopping at Hugo Boss.* I have always wanted to try a triple windsor anyway.


Whoa! Don't be so hasty. Hugo Boss is never the solution.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> 17.5 X 36. Usually not this big a problem. Maybe when I finish losing weight I'll be a couple sizes smaller...but again, hasn't been this big a hassle in the past.


Seriously? Whenever I'm at BB I see a whole bunch of 17.5 shirts. Which, in the past, use to piss me off because I was an size 18 in shirts(I used to barely fit a 17.5)..... but that was a long time ago.(I lost a great deal of weight recently)


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Dumb question so I'll ask it here.

When brooks sells out of seasonal stuff, do they ever get more in? 

I was thinking about trying their "Milano" cut chinos, and thought I'd try to grab a pair o summer-weight ones.
They're currently out of my size, is it worth it to check back periodically?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Dumb question so I'll ask it here.
> 
> When brooks sells out of seasonal stuff, do they ever get more in?
> 
> ...


I don't know if they place any mid seasonal orders with their suppliers but, they can get on those computerized cash registers of theirs and search the inventories of other BB locations, to locate the chinos you are seeking. Have you asked your sales associate to perform such a search?


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## jwa_jwa_jwa (Jul 13, 2010)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Dumb question so I'll ask it here.
> 
> When brooks sells out of seasonal stuff, do they ever get more in?
> 
> ...


Go with the Milano cut if you like low-cut chinos. I bought a pair and didn't like the feeling my undies were showing on my backside. I haven't worn them ever since.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

The blue ocbd saga will not die!!! Update: Even though I cancelled the shirt (twice actually, via two different e-mails sent me to back up the shipping date) I got a notice yesterday that the shirt had been shipped! I'm on a weight loss program and have lost enough in the two months since I ordered the shirt to need a smaller size in the neck. I am so leary about their "e-service" I guess I'll need to exchange it at a B&M store next time I'm near one.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

"I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that."


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

This is sad. I know the BB direct marketing department has a crack staff.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Those chimps could all be outfitted at JAB for less than $39 on the right day.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

^^^
That's great Trip  ! LOL.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Trip English said:


> Those chimps could all be outfitted at JAB for less than $39 on the right day.


Actually, it looks like they WERE outfitted at JAB. Must've been the right day...


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