# barbour beaufort with suit?



## chadn2000 (Aug 4, 2006)

What do you all think about wearing a Beaufort as a jacket over a suit? Yay, nay?


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## blastandcast (Nov 29, 2006)

Yes - I do it all the time.


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

I think it's fine. On NYE I was even with someone who wore his Beaufort over a tuxedo, which might be stretching it a little far, but then again we're all in our 20's so it doesn't go without saying that everyone would have a dressier overcoat.


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Nay.

It's not terrible, I'm just not a fan. If you do wear it over a suit, make sure it's long enough to cover the suit coat.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes, around town, the Beaufort is the Barbour that is most often worn over a suit. Bedales are too short. Some of the longer Barbours also work over suits, but they are coats and look a bit scruffier compared to the "country" elegance of the Beaufort.
If a longer coat is wanted then wear a proper raincoat or wool coat.


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## D&S (Mar 29, 2009)

smujd said:


> Nay.
> 
> If you do wear it over a suit, make sure it's long enough to cover the suit coat.


That's probably the most important factor - the Bedale is just too short for most jackets.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

In the past I've worn my ankle length brown New Zealand horse-riding coat (replete with shoulder cape and leg straps) over my dinner suit. Very 1800s.


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## djl (Feb 6, 2006)

I do it all the time in NYC. It's pretty common on my subway commute.


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## JLWhittington (Aug 20, 2008)

*Classic Northumbria works too*

Longer is better!


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

I've worn mine over a blazer or a Harris Tweed coat, but not over a suit. I know people do it, but, in my opinion, the formality of a business suit requires a normal overcoat or trenchcoat (especially during the workweek). Just my 2 cents.


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## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

The Border is the perfect length to wear over a suit. I call wearing a Barbour over a suit the "McCoy." (cf Law and Order)


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

I wouldn't wear one over a seersucker suit...


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## Tenacious Tassel (Sep 11, 2006)

CNels,

If the quality of your suits are as bad as I think they are, a Barbour should be used to hide the embarrasement :icon_smile:


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## oldschoolprep (Jun 21, 2007)

*Border Guard*

I wear mine with suits and sportcoats quite frequently. The more battered the Border the greater its character!

Just make sure yours is long enough to cover your sportcoat or suit jacket.


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## Galt (Oct 4, 2008)

Great topic... I've been thinking about pushing the button on Beaufort or Border for wear over a suit. Those who do, do you size up at all?

I'm going to go and try on at Orvis... just wondering what others have done.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

oldschoolprep said:


> The more battered the Border the greater its character!


Absolutely, character's the thing!


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

I've often thought we should have a "share your battered Barbour" thread.

Also, I laughed at the "McCoy" – when my wife and I watch Law and Order and he trots the old girl out, I point and mention it to my wife, saying "See, other people wear them. Importing them from England is not that unusual!"

She rolls her eyes. I swear, some day we'll go to a dog show just so she will acknowledge that this is common. Of course, most of my sartorial love affairs of the moment she blames on this forum.


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## M. Morgan (Dec 19, 2009)

It seems common enough. I'd be more apt to wear my Beaufort over a navy suit than, say, a grey suit, but that's just me.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Pink and Green said:


> I've often thought we should have a "share your battered Barbour" thread.


And of course, one of the great joys of owning a Barbour is repairing it and reproofing it yourself. The more visible stitching the better. All this sending it off to a shop or back to the factory for repairs and reproofing is nonsense! Especially fun it you own one of the large Barbour repair tins, which look and smell great, about the size of a trade paperback. Full of all sorts of repair material, cottonreels, wax.


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Galt said:


> Great topic... I've been thinking about pushing the button on Beaufort or Border for wear over a suit. Those who do, do you size up at all?
> 
> I'm going to go and try on at Orvis... just wondering what others have done.


No need to size up. Barbours are already cut one size up to allow for jackets, sweaters, etc. I sized down on my Beaufort and it fits well with even medium weight sweaters.


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

The style comes to us direct from Milan. I like it sometimes, but if I'm going to a serious meeting I usually go with an overcoat.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Pgolden said:


> The style comes to us direct from Milan.


 If you mean Barbour over suit, then I beg to differ. Barbour over suit is a British style.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

perfect-o. Has my full endorsement!


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

Yes Absolutely no reason why not.

Ignore silly people that suggest only a bespoke top coat is acceptable. We live in the twenty first century.


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## sclemmons (Mar 4, 2006)

I think the Border works better over a suit because it is longer. 

That said, almost any real raincoat or top coat works better.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

I agree with Ron A. Not over a business suit. Sport coat..okay and country suit..maybe but city business suit not a good match. There are other tweed field coats that are sporty and country and I would say the same rule goes for them as well. I am not even sure why these questions come up. Its a free country and anyone can wear anything with anything.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

I dunno, Barbour over suit seems to imply "off to the estate once I've clinched the deal" (which I like, BTW)


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

These days, my Barbour sees more use that almost any other coat in my closet, and indeed, I have worn it over a sport jacket on a couple of occassions. Not an optimal look, for sure but, it can work! I literally seek out garments that offer increased versatility, in terms of wear. However, ironically, I also have sufficient coating options that such versatility is rendered moot...seems a bit loony, wot!


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> If you mean Barbour over suit, then I beg to differ. Barbour over suit is a British style.


Here is a short piece I wrote on Barbours. Of course, the coat is from England, but wearing it for dress--in town, as the British say--was a style, I believe, that came from Milan.

My wife thinks I'm crazy, and here is her latest evidence: For the last hour I've been sitting on the couch wearing my sage-green, wax cotton Barbour Beaufort.

"Expecting rain?" she asked, struggling to contain her laughter.

We were watching _Prime Suspect_, a gritty British drama featuring Helen Mirren as the hard-drinking commander of a London homicide unit. It is one my favorite shows, ever, and thus I dressed for it in my Beaufort, a tribute I hadn't performed since childhood when I'd watch _Zorro_ decked out in black mask and cape.

As I later explained to my much-amused wife, Hollywood's influence on style is an established fact. In 2006, for example, there was a run on Barbours when Helen Mirren starred in _The Queen_ and marched round the countryside as a Beaufort-clad Queen Elizabeth II.

The Beaufort is the most popular Barbour wax cotton coat, followed by the Bedale and Border, and all three-similar in style but of varying lengths-are part of the complete American wardrobe, coming here, according to fashion writer and historian, G. Bruce Boyer, from Milan.

"Twenty-five years ago," Boyer explains, "I was in Milan and saw men wearing suits under Barbours. _Spretzatura_-purposeful nonchalance- is central to Italian style, and it often translates into mixing the formal and informal. I think we've adopted the Italian idea."

Milan averages 70 percent more rain a year than London, and for anyone who has sat in an office with a flannel chalk stripe damp from a morning rain and giving off the unmistakable aroma of wet sheep, one suspects that the Milanese had more than _spretzatura_ in mind: Barbour wax cotton has been keeping people dry since 1894, when John Barbour started producing oilskins for outdoor laborers in the English port city of South Shields.

"I call it 'function for fashion,' " says Thomas P. Hooven, general manager of Barbour USA. "A functional garment becomes fashionable _because_ of its function."

Hooven works out of the company's North American headquarters in Milford, New Hampshire, where I have come this bright morning with my Barbour obsession in full flower.

"You're not alone," says Hooven. "We hear from people all the time who have had their coats fifteen, twenty years, and feel nervous sending them in for repairs."

Barbour, still a family-owned company, has been repairing, re-waxing and altering its coats since its founding. In New Hampshire the tradition lives on in the cavernous warehouse, where three tailors sit behind sewing machines. I hand my Beaufort to Lisa ******. Her first move is to bind the sleeve cuffs with green leather, an easy task. Next comes the hard part: I want an inside pocket added.

"What's interesting," says ******, "is that you're not working from a pattern. You have to think about it before you cut."

I felt an anxious twinge when she slit the tartan lining, but soon she had made a pocket with a snap closure from scratch, and inserted it into my Beaufort.

Next, I go see Hector Estrella, who handles the re-waxes at a table that resembles a combination sushi bar and hash-house grill. The tabletop is heated to 170 degrees; the wax to 250 degrees; and Hector spreads it over my coat gently and evenly.

I don't have the space here to do justice to my feelings about Barbours-how their classically beautiful and practical design tie them to a tradition of quality and pride of workmanship that seems even more valuable today when traditions vanish in all the time it takes to delete an e-mail from your in-box.

Nor can I fully explain what happened when I arrived home, and my wife informed me that she wants to buy a Bedale.

Call me crazy, but I believe before long I won't be the only member of our household sitting on the couch in a Barbour.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

^^ Pgolden, your wife just may be right about the crazy, but I like your style!


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Pgolden said:


> Here is a short piece I wrote on Barbours. Of course, the coat is from England, but wearing it for dress--in town, as the British say--was a style, I believe, that came from Milan...
> "Twenty-five years ago," Boyer explains, "I was in Milan and saw men wearing suits under Barbours. _Sprezzatura_-purposeful nonchalance- is central to Italian style, and it often translates into mixing the formal and informal. I think we've adopted the Italian idea."...Barbour wax cotton has been keeping people dry since 1894, when John Barbour started producing oilskins for outdoor labourers in the English port city of South Shields.


I shall always think that a mix of the formal and the informal is an incongruity, or an oxymoron, or mixed modes, however it is put, whatever the Italians say. Although, as you rightly say, Barbour have been in business for more than 100 years, it was in the 1980s that their jackets became fashion items in the UK as well as in Italy. Those who would wish to wear a Barbour jacket over a city suit in heavy rain are likely to get their trousers twice as wet, as would be the case for all short jackets - the rain simply runs off. Barbour does make (or at any rate has made) full length coats which might work over a suit, but why not wear a proper overcoat or raincoat? Let's keep formal and informal strictly separate.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Pgolden said:


> Nor can I fully explain what happened when I arrived home, and my wife informed me that she wants to buy a Bedale.
> 
> Call me crazy, but I believe before long I won't be the only member of our household sitting on the couch in a Barbour.


Love your article! You two sound like my wife and I. Of course, if you can figure out how to make her want a Bedale, I'll send you some money.  I've been trying to convince her for a decade, no such luck.

Also love the "dressing up for your show" - we may be closer cousins than I imagined!


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## Vespa (May 16, 2005)

I wear my very battered Border over my suits on my morning commute on the Vespa for better part of three seasons. Great Vespa riding Jacket.


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## CMC (Aug 22, 2006)

I see a lot of gents in NY with the hip-length quilted jackets with patch-flap pockets in front and snap rather than zipper closure, but can't seem to find this model online. Anyone know what model/maker this might be?

Ah, just found one by RL. Like this:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Me662inP8is/Srf_RTD1YiI/AAAAAAAAADg/WmUfd_SzaeA/s1600-h/3773-300.jpg


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

williamson said:


> I shall always think that a mix of the formal and the informal is an incongruity, or an oxymoron, or mixed modes, however it is put, whatever the Italians say. Although, as you rightly say, Barbour have been in business for more than 100 years, it was in the 1980s that their jackets became fashion items in the UK as well as in Italy. Those who would wish to wear a Barbour jacket over a city suit in heavy rain are likely to get their trousers twice as wet, as would be the case for all short jackets - the rain simply runs off. Barbour does make (or at any rate has made) full length coats which might work over a suit, but why not wear a proper overcoat or raincoat? Let's keep formal and informal strictly separate.


Agree that in heavy rain you'd be better off with a longer coat, but I still like the mix of formal and informal.


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

Pink and Green said:


> Love your article! You two sound like my wife and I. Of course, if you can figure out how to make her want a Bedale, I'll send you some money.  I've been trying to convince her for a decade, no such luck.
> 
> Also love the "dressing up for your show" - we may be closer cousins than I imagined!


Glad you liked the article. It was fun to write.


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## erbs (Feb 18, 2008)

Pgolden-

Which Boyer article did you quote in your piece?


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

erbs said:


> Pgolden-
> 
> Which Boyer article did you quote in your piece?


I interviewed Bruce for the Barbour article I was writing.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Clearly very different attitudes towards Barbour use in the US when compared to the UK. 

I must ask do farmers at work and the working classes wear Barbours in the US?

Because that is quite common in the UK. Young football "Casuals" wear Barbours to matches in the UK, Sweden and other Euro countries. Barbours have been part of the Casuals look for years.

BTW don't confuse UK Casuals (Barbour, Stone Island, Adidas, Duffer of St George, Abercrombie, Ben Sherman, Baracuta, Puma, Fred Perry, Levis) 

with UK Chavs (Burberry, Kappa, DC, Nike, drag-arse jeans or sweat-pants, bling, baseball caps with the size stickers left on the peak) :icon_smile_big: :icon_smile_big:


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

*About to convert*

Slightly out of topic. I wear an RL hunting jacket that somehow looks like the Barbour quilted wth my suits. I guess this will be the alternative jacket for me. Any thoughts on the sizing of Barbour? My RLs are size L, which is slightly bigger on me to make space for the suit. I wear a 40-41R suit.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Th classic Barbour cut already takes account for the fact that it's an outer coat and not a jacket i.e. plenty of room for big jumpers or a suit jacket underneath.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Length issues aside, it is pretty uncomfortable to fit a raglan-shouldered Barbour over a suit jacket/sport jacket. And the lining in the original Barbours (not the "classic" ones, which are brushed cotton inside) are pretty rough -- hastening the wear and tear on the suit, and the shine on navy suits.


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## Pgolden (May 13, 2006)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Clearly very different attitudes towards Barbour use in the US when compared to the UK.
> 
> I must ask do farmers at work and the working classes wear Barbours in the US?
> 
> ...


Here in the US we also favor wearing jeans with jackets and ties--another style you'll find in Italy and France: not sure about the UK. I don't recall seeing it. As for farmers wearing Barbours in the US. The Beaufort retails at Orvis for $399; there are far less expensive alternatives, and those are the ones I've seen farmers wearing (My late father-in-law owned a dairy farm.) In the US, I think you're more apt to see the "horsey set" in Barbours


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

*Fit - Classic and now*

What is the difference with the fit of the classic to the now? 
My apologies, but i would like to extract as much info from you guys as possible. This is a good thread.


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## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

Pgolden said:


> Here in the US we also favor wearing jeans with jackets and ties--another style you'll find in Italy and France: not sure about the UK. I don't recall seeing it. As for farmers wearing Barbours in the US. The Beaufort retails at Orvis for $399; there are far less expensive alternatives, and those are the ones I've seen farmers wearing (My late father-in-law owned a dairy farm.) In the US, I think you're more apt to see the "horsey set" in Barbours


In my experience, Barbour in the U.S. is pretty much limited to the horse, dog, and wingshooting sets.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Pgolden said:


> Here in the US we also favor wearing jeans with jackets and ties--another style you'll find in Italy and France: not sure about the UK. I don't recall seeing it.


This is another example of the incongruity I so much dislike!


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*nope*

a fortnight ago, freezing in london en route to kabul, i tried on a barbour and thought it looked a bit scruffy. instead i bought a covert coat from new & lingwood on savile row, on sale for less than a hundred pounds more than a barbour. it does the job with city suits as well as tweeds.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I would wear one over a suit, but the beaufort is so short the suit jacket would peek out underneath, and the sleeves of he beaufort are so short...


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I would wear one over a suit, but the beaufort is so short the suit jacket would peek out underneath, and the sleeves of he beaufort are so short...


Sounds like your Beaufort is too small...


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I would wear one over a suit, but the beaufort is so short the suit jacket would peek out underneath, and the sleeves of he beaufort are so short...


Sounds like your Beaufort is a Bedale or you are very tall.


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## Rocco Taco (7 mo ago)

chadn2000 said:


> What do you all think about wearing a Beaufort as a jacket over a suit? Yay, nay?


I didn't know either but this article did a good job explaining how to wear one








The 10 Best Ways to Wear a Barbour Over Suit


Barbour Over Suit Trend The barbour over suit is the new trend that’s here to stay. This piece is a combination of an overcoat and a suit jacket, which makes it perfect for this time of year. It wi…




infulo.com


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

I have several Barbours and like them all, but I would never wear them as an outer coat over something as formal as a suit. It would be borderline for me even with a sports jacket and grey flannels. Just my personal preference. The uniformly smooth cloth surface of a suit simply does not combine well with all of the outer details and trim of a Barbour -- corduroy collar, throat latch, zipper and snap buttons, hand warmer pockets, and above all, the waxed cloth of the jacket. The contrast between the structure of a suit and that of the Barbour is simply too stark for me to combine effectively and create a well-put-together look. By the way, there are as many as 103 items of trim in the Barbour jacket as this article seems to suggest:









Barbour wax jacket - the story | The Gentleman's Journal


We all know and love Barbour and their infamous wax jacket, but what's the true story behind the iconic wear? Find our more here.




www.thegentlemansjournal.com





But many other men do combine these elements of informal outerwear and formal suit. As in most things, there is a continuum. A trenchcoat (a garment that has been around significantly longer than the Barbour, if I am not mistaken) has over a hundred years or more, become acceptable outerwear for a suit-wearing man. And a trenchcoat has a lot of contrast with a suit! In general, the more casual the outerwear is, the less suitable it might be (pun intended) as outerwear over more formal clothing. 

These things depend on the specific level of comfort that is part of who each of us is, and how we think of our personal style. My general rule is a very simple one: Look at yourself in the mirror and note whether the ensemble you are about to wear in public creates a self-consciousness or a sense of unease and discomfort in you. If it does, don't wear it, or change it until that self-consciousness disappears. A related index is the amount of thought you give your outfit once you put it together and go out in public. If you are comfortable in that ensemble, the chances are pretty high that you will forget about it, and concentrate on far more important matters, like achieving world peace, or impressing that dinner date, LOL.

But I would definitely draw the line at sneakers with suits. That's an absolute no for me.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

^
A post becomes article, again. Many stars. Or the emoji equivalent.


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> A post becomes article, again. Many stars. Or the emoji equivalent.


Thank you, Peaks. I appreciate your kind comments.


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

Unless one is endowed with incredible taste and looks and a very heightened sense of sprezzatura, in my opinion wearing a Barbour jacket over a suit or even over an odd jacket will make you look like a kid in high school who needed to dress warmly for something like being in the stands for a cold game and did not have anything more appropriate.


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## Yates (Apr 6, 2015)

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Unless one is endowed with incredible taste and looks and a very heightened sense of sprezzatura, in my opinion wearing a Barbour jacket over a suit or even over an odd jacket will make you look like a kid in high school who needed to dress warmly for something like being in the stands for a cold game and did not have anything more appropriate.


True. I wore that look all the way through grad school and loved it!


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

Just to add an interesting dimension to this discussion, none other than the redoubtable Bruce Boyer was photographed wearing a military-style (M-65 replica) jacket over a sportcoat and grey flannels outside The Armoury in NYC. The coat is not a Barbour, but it is in the same general category. And I'll concede that he does look pretty good --so perhaps Mr Boyer is the exception to the sartorial rule I tried to lay out!


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I had a Barbour jacket until the cleaners ruined it--they were supposed to mend a tear and went ahead and dry cleaned. It would never have occurred to me to wear it with a suit. I would put this practice on the same level as wearing sneakers with a suit!


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