# Poor Speling and Grammar Around Here. Your Thoughts?



## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

When you read a post around here, what is your take when the post has errors in spelling and grammar?

I am not referring to typos--but instead spellings such as 'defanite' and 'carachter'. Key words omitted from sentences. 'Where' used instead of 'Were' and 'They're' for 'There.'

Perhaps because I am a journalist by trade, I find it quite hard to get through posts such as these. Often, I lose respect for someone who uses such poor language and grammar and disregard the post.

I'm curious--what do others think about poor spelling and grammar in a post?

Do you accept this as part of the routine of an Internet Forum, or do posts such as these bother you as well?


Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> Often, I loose respect for someone who uses such poor language and grammar and disregard the post.


Yes, it's difficult not to loose respect. :icon_smile:


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I tend not to pay attention to the occasional error, as I know I make them myself. I will be typing while I take a phone call, or have someone enter my office mid-stream of thought, and make an error. However, I do tend to notice if someone demonstrates they do not know the difference between "their", "there", and "they're" or "its" and "it's", etc.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Wayfarer said:


> "its" and "it's", etc.


My pet peeve, Wayfarer! I find that to be a pretty common mistake as well.

--Chase


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

Your welcome.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Chase Hamilton said:


> My pet peeve, Wayfarer! I find that to be a pretty common mistake as well.
> 
> --Chase


The point is mute :icon_smile_big: (my biggest pet peeve).


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Oh, their you go again, ic12337: Guess I just have to give in and say its ok if some people get confused, I mean were all guilty of not proofing hour writing.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

mpcsb said:


> I mean were all guilty of not proofing hour writing.


Umm, _all_? I don't think so. I know I proof my posts before I submit them, and it seems as if others around here make that attempt as well.

Plus, I'm not so sure the issue is one of not proofing work. My observation is that society (American, I mean) is raising people who are highly educated but who literally cannot spell or use proper grammar, and who do not understand why that is necessary for good communication.

--Chase


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## JohnMS (Feb 18, 2004)

I believe many of us notice poor spelling, it bothers us, but we don't bring it up. I'm just waiting to see more shoe pictures.


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## lee_44106 (Apr 10, 2006)

I think this worsening ability to spell is the result of the spread of Instant Messaging, to type fast and type from diminutive keyboards.

Poor spelling annoys me a great deal.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I wonder if the growing lack of attention to spelling and grammar are related to the growing lack of interest in dressing properly.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

I find threads like this idiotic. Why? Because, we are all natural at somethings and terrible in other things, so are we all horrible? If you are not good at something should you be run down. Are you here for ideas or grammar and spelling? This thread shows some people have a huge lack of understanding of humanity. The beginning post sounds like "if you can't engineer the Golden Gate Bridge then you shouldn't be allowed on it, not even talk about it".

In this world we all have talents. If we all had the same talents life would be lacking much. What I don't like is people who have a talent and then bad mouths those that don't have that talent. Nobody has all the talents. You have a few and that is it. Somethings you are passible on. Other things you completely lack and will never get.

Things like missing words; perhaps it is people think way faster than they type? Why do professional book printing companies have several proof readers per book? Some of those authors are superb in spelling and grammar and you would think clearly would not need a proof reader. Besides, nobody here uses words as good as one boy I meet. His choice of words and usage of grammar is way beyond anybody here, and he hadn't even entered 5th grade yet. I have never seen anybody get more out of lanuage than him, and at that all the way through high school.

When people are running down other people it is because of a lack of thanks for what they have.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Phinn said:


> Yes, it's difficult not to loose respect. :icon_smile:


ROFLMAO!


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

WA said:


> I find threads like this idiotic. Why? Because, we are all natural at somethings and terrible in other things, so are we all horrible? If you are not good at something should you be run down. Are you here for ideas or grammar and spelling? This thread shows some people have a huge lack of understanding of humanity. The beginning post sounds like "if you can't engineer the Golden Gate Bridge then you shouldn't be allowed on it, not even talk about it".
> 
> .


I disagree. Some things are basic skills that everyone needs to do reasonably well. For example:read, write, figure. Doing these things poorly, in public, shows most either:extreme youth, a disregard for propriety, a slovenly thought process or lack of education. Sorry, but that's how it comes across. This is not advanced civil engineering; it's simple writing. If people are not learning it in school, there is a failure somewhere.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

WA said:


> I find threads like this idiotic. Why? Because, we are all natural at somethings and terrible in other things, so are we all horrible? If you are not good at something should you be run down. Are you here for ideas or grammar and spelling? This thread shows some people have a huge lack of understanding of humanity. The beginning post sounds like "if you can't engineer the Golden Gate Bridge then you shouldn't be allowed on it, not even talk about it".
> 
> In this world we all have talents. If we all had the same talents life would be lacking much. What I don't like is people who have a talent and then bad mouths those that don't have that talent. Nobody has all the talents. You have a few and that is it. Somethings you are passible on. Other things you completely lack and will never get.
> 
> ...


WA, I find your language strong, and not particularly well thought out, IMO.

I don't see anybody attacking somebody else on a personal level, as you purport. Or perhaps somehow a nerve was struck close to home?

All I see anyone saying here is that some of the people who are members here find it difficult to respect a post if there is poor spelling and grammar contained within.

I see _no evidence_ of anybody considering banning somebody from posting here, because of poor spelling and/or grammar, as you purport in your Golden Gate bridge analogy.

I really don't know what else to say to this. Your comments just seem to come out of Left Field.

Kind Regards,

Chase


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I'm especially fond of "for all intensive purposes."

And the ebay classic "burg*a*ndy."


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

Phinn said:


> Yes, it's difficult not to loose respect. :icon_smile:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey guys, I corrected it. You _all_ _*know*_ that was an example to prove my point. Don't you? Don't you... 

--Chase


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

yachtie said:


> This is not advanced civil engineering; it simple writing.


Yachtie: I agree with all that you said, but in defence of the occasional error, please read the above sentence


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Yachtie: I agree with all that you said, but in defence of the occasional error, please read the above sentence


Oops!


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

mpcsb said:


> Oh, their you go again, ic12337: Guess I just have to give in and say its ok if some people get confused, I mean were all guilty of not proofing hour writing.


So true, I've gone back and read what I've posted and not been happy with my particular grammar or obvious spelling mistakes. We all make them, but when the same person makes the same mistakes repeatedly, it becomes harder to overlook. On the other hand, if there are multiple mistakes, I have found myself bypassing it and moving on to the reply posts to get the gist of the topic.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Patrick06790 said:


> I'm especially fond of "for all intensive purposes."


As opposed to "lackadaisical purposes"?


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Even though I write and edit for a living, I do let the occasional typo or other error slip through both here and even in my work, much to my mortification.

One thing to bear in mind is that many of the participants in this forum are not native speakers of English.

I will say that if a chap appears to be a native speaker and his spelling, punctuation and grammar are decidedly subpar, I would tend to be somewhat skeptical of his judgments on sartorial matters and other topics discussed in this forum.

I don't think today's kids get a solid grounding of grammar instilled into them. Probably the prevailing pedagogical theory is that it would stifle the little darlings' spontenaity and creativity. I know when my stepson attempted to learn Latin in college, it was a catastrophe. Depsite my expert (I hope) tutoring, he seemed incapable of comprehending basic grammatical concepts and failed the course miserably.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

JLibourel said:


> I know when my stepson attempted to learn Latin in college, it was a catastrophe. Depsite my expert (I hope) tutoring, he seemed incapable of comprehending basic grammatical concepts and failed the course miserably.


Very true, Jan. I've heard it said more than once it is very difficult to teach today's students a foreign language because they never properly learn English.

--Chase


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

It's easier to teach foreign languages to the young than waiting for college. I'm going to try the "Minimus" series on my oldest boy this Summer. He's 8.

I'm also harping on my son's teacher to have the class start diagramming sentences. It's still the best way to teach grammatical structure IMO.


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## Doctor B (Sep 27, 2006)

Chase, 

I deplore the growing use of poor English grammar and spelling. As a former journalist, I learned that was crucial to keeping readers (and essential to keeping a job). 

Personally speaking as a gentleman, grammar and spelling -- from someone for whom English is their first language -- shows me what kind of person I am dealing with. It is a reflection on his/her character, whether that person likes it or not. If they can't, don't or won't use proper grammar and spelling in their writing, that's going to cost them a few points in my book.

Some of my pet peeves:
Improper use of homophones -- (its/it's, there/they're/their, you're/your);
Spellings lifted from IMs and placed into written documents ("hehe" or "lol" for laughing especially burns me up);
Misuse of the verbs "lie" and "lay" (unless "lay" is used as a noun and I'm in on the action :devil;
The phrase "lag behind" (if you lag, you're already behind, so why be redundant?); 
The incorrect use of the noun "Democrat" as an adjective (you know who you are); 
The reporting of vote totals as follows: "Candidate X swept to victory over Candidate Y by a 60-40 margin." In reality, 60-40 is a ratio; the margin of victory is 20 percentage points;
The use of "impact" as a verb (to me, it will always be a noun); and
The introduction of new words into our vocabulary that sound impressive but say nothing. Case in point: "athleticism." What the hell is athleticism? Was the athlete smoking pot? Why not just say the player is skilled, or talented?


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Chase Hamilton said:


> WA, I find your language strong, and not particularly well thought out, IMO.
> 
> I don't see anybody attacking somebody else on a personal level, as you purport. Or perhaps somehow a nerve was struck close to home?
> 
> ...


WA, you have been pwned.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Athleticism refers to an athlete's physical skills versus his understanding of timing, strategy and other intangibles necessary to win games.

Most of the other examples given have some merit, but I disagree about this one.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Maybe I take the word repect too strongly. No doubt my spelling is atrocious. Phonics confused me as a child and rote memory doesn't help much when dealing with thousands of words. Add to that I haven't written much since school days over 30 years ago (there might have been a whole decade I didn't write anything, excepts checks). One tends to forget what one does not use.

Grammar- Being boxed in by it has it limitations. There are things you simple cannot think of with the grammar you learned in school. For many things in life those that know grammar best have the best choice of words and in there correct place, so speak clearly. I have experimented outside the grammar box and like some of what I have come up with. But, of course to communicate with people one needs to think inside the grammar box they know.

Speaking and writing are not the same, either. My speaking is way different than my writing. I probably speak 8-16 times faster than my typing. By the time I finish typing a sentence my mind has wandered through may different ways of saying something, so by the time I'm done with the sentence... 

I've learned to never judge somebodies abilities, or lack there of, with other abilities they may or may not have. For example, suppose we pull an opposite thinking- I look at your clothes and how you dress with them, and they're not par with the best, does that make your writing and editing average to poor? For those of you who earn a living with grammar, writing, spelling and editing it is your job to keep fine tuned, but the rest of use it is not so important, as long as it does not get to far out of hand. Kinda like you expect your tailor to sew to a certain standard or higher, but don't expect others to have those same sewing standards. Some of you writers need a long vaction.


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## Chase Hamilton (Jan 15, 2007)

WA said:


> Maybe I take the word repect too strongly. No doubt my spelling is atrocious. Phonics confused me as a child and rote memory doesn't help much when dealing with thousands of words. Add to that I haven't written much since school days over 30 years ago (there might have been a whole decade I didn't write anything, excepts checks). One tends to forget what one does not use.
> 
> Grammar- Being boxed in by it has it limitations. There are things you simple cannot think of with the grammar you learned in school. For many things in life those that know grammar best have the best choice of words and in there correct place, so speak clearly. I have experimented outside the grammar box and like some of what I have come up with. But, of course to communicate with people one needs to think inside the grammar box they know.
> 
> ...


WA, as myself and others have pointed out in this thread, this isn't about judging ability. It's about proper communication. As yachtie pointed out, you are judged by your peers on how you communicate. In a forum, spelling and grammar are part of that communication. Per its title, this thread is how _poor spelling and grammar affect us when we see it here on AAAC._ (Emphasis mine.)

Regarding your analogy between judging someone's writing and someone's clothes--I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Judging a person by how they communicate is nearly universal. That's why spelling and grammar are taught in schools. That doesn't apply to clothing.

If you don't think that spelling and grammar matters in your posts here, then fine. So be it. But I think the only person you may be kidding is yourself.

--Chase


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Chase Hamilton I think you missed some of my points. A person does need to communicate, so not just a bunch of meaningless words. I didn't say schools should be slacking. And writing is way different than speech. When speaking who thinks of which their, there, they're they are using. Or, where comma's belong. Ends of sentences? Nobody complains about my grammar in speach, except, maybe my brother- others I have asked said I have fine grammar. But when it comes to writing, after years of not doing it, I don't remember everything. The computer, email and internet have me pulling out grammar books and books to check out spelling. I end up wondering if I got it right or if there is some other rule I forgot. Laid and lay and lie and liar and lye. And one grammar book seems to have some opposite directions.

While you put a lot of stock in judging people based on their grammar and spelling I am all ways unimpressed by those that have degrees and excellent grammar and spelling, but really don't know the subject they got a degree in. They might be able to talk all about it or all around it and knew how to please their teachers to get degrees, but if they can't actually do what they got their degrees in, then they are a dumb as a pile of rocks. Wise people know the difference between useful knowlege and useless knowlege. Excellent grammar can help people gain more useful knowlege and skills, but why is it some people get decieved by excellent grammar? Perhaps they get lost in a sea of knowlege. I'd rather be around somebody with less grammar skills who can constructively do something.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

WA said:


> Chase Hamilton I think you missed some of my points. A person does need to communicate, so not just a bunch of meaningless words. I didn't say schools should be slacking. And writing is way different than speech. When speaking who thinks of which their, there, they're they are using. Or, where comma's belong. Ends of sentences? Nobody complains about my grammar in speach, except, maybe my brother- others I have asked said I have fine grammar. But when it comes to writing, after years of not doing it, I don't remember everything. The computer, email and internet have me pulling out grammar books and books to check out spelling. I end up wondering if I got it right or if there is some other rule I forgot. Laid and lay and lie and liar and lye. And one grammar book seems to have some opposite directions.


Two points WA: first, when you're speaking there's no way to determine, save from context, which of the words,to use your example of there, their, they're that the speaker is using; second, in writing, those various spellings denote different meanings and are not interchangeable: from your example one is place, one is posession and one is being. Mixing them up only serves to confuse the person you're trying to communicate with. If grammar books had opposite directions, no-one would be able to communicate effectively.

Like all things, writing requires some effort to master but does get easier the more one does it. Accusing people of being constrained in a box of grammatical rules while you're enjoying the "freedom" of making grammar up as you go along appears to be just making excuses for failing to exert the effort to learn how to comply with the agreed upon structure necessary to communicate.

'Nuf said.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

yachtie said:


> Two points WA: first, when you're speaking there's no way to determine, save from context, which of the words,to use your example of there, their, they're that the speaker is using; second, in writing, those various spellings denote different meanings and are not interchangeable: from your example one is place, one is posession and one is being. Mixing them up only serves to confuse the person you're trying to communicate with. If grammar books had opposite directions, no-one would be able to communicate effectively.
> 
> Like all things, writing requires some effort to master but does get easier the more one does it. Accusing people of being constrained in a box of grammatical rules while you're enjoying the "freedom" of making grammar up as you go along appears to be just making excuses for failing to exert the effort to learn how to comply with the agreed upon structure necessary to communicate.
> 
> 'Nuf said.


I never said to use outside the box grammar for normal communication. But if you try it in your own personal world once in a while you will think things you could never think before.

There and their certainly gets me confused sometimes when I start thinking about which frame to put them in- place, posession (home is a place and a posession). Indeed, I do miss this one, they're--they are, once in awhile I do see and correct it. Perhaps you guys think of the spelling when you speak, I never do.


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## trolperft (Feb 7, 2007)

Chase Hamilton said:


> When you read a post around here, what is your take when the post has errors in spelling and grammar?
> 
> I am not referring to typos--but instead spellings such as 'defanite' and 'carachter'. Key words omitted from sentences. 'Where' used instead of 'Were' and 'They're' for 'There.'
> 
> ...


For me, English is not native language. When I come across the words that I don't know, I look them up. If the spelling is not correct, it is sometimes difficult to find the words in a dictionary. I hope for correct spelling and grammar.


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

I can't type much because I've got a broken finger, but trolperft has hit the nail on the head. Correct grammar and spelling enable your intended recipient to decipher your message easily and unambiguously. And so making an effort to get them right is a courtesy to others.

No-one here gets pilloried for their mistakes as far as I'm aware. Although I would say that if you're going to start a thread on the subject, it's a good idea to make sure your post is beyond reproach. One 'speling' mistake and five unnecessary capital letters in the thread title alone doesn't get things off to the best start.


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## mannaman (Aug 26, 2005)

Keep one thing in mind: AAAC is very international. A couple of Germans, Japanese, French and so on. For those people, English is not their natural language. 
I try to use proper spelling and grammar for posts on AAAC, but sometimes, typos are simply unavoidable.

I think there is a clear line between typos and mistakes in grammar caused by non-native-speakers and typical internet abbreviations and poor grammar caused by laziness.

One bad example:


> WHOA...back thr trolly up...$7.25 a tin? A TIN?.....Where do you live and what kinda cigs prices you got up there 16$ a pack?...DAMN lol....Sorry for the reaction its just I'ev never seen skoal or anything else over 3.59$ a tin...wow


Stolen from a smokeless-tobacco forum. Please do not ask how I got there...


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

*Tell me about proper grammer again...*

A family from the northeast is driving to Florida on vacation. They stop at a small diner for lunch. The Southern waitress says to the family:
"Ya'll talk so proper, where ya'll from"
Family member responds:
"We're from somewhere where we know not to end a sentence in a preposition."
"OH'" says the waitress, "Let me rephrase that. Where ya'll from...b!tch".

Proper, yeah...tell me about proper.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Writing well is important. I was fortunate to attend public schools in California when Dick and Jane taught us to read and our teachers taught us to diagram sentences. I am apalled by the apparent illiteracy of recent college graduates. I had people reporting to me who could not write. But then, my high school English teachers assigned well-written literature and explained to us what made it so. 

Out of courtesy to others, and a certain degree of pride, I almost always proof what I submit to this forum. In fact, one of the pleasures of reading and posting to it, is the generally high quality of writing of most members, and the knowledge that it is worthwhile to put some effort into one's contributions. 

I concur with most of the things folks had to say about particular annoying errors, and also with distinguishing between errors and typos, and making allowances for the latter. 

Thanks for yet another interesting thread.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I dunno...maybe its because I'm too friggin buisy in real life to worry about wheather or not a bunch of guys I'll probably never meet respect my spelling or whatever...

Y'see in the real world when we need to make sure something is spelled properly, we can just use that nifty little spell checker thingy in MS word or whatever...sorry, maybe its just because I'm a sucky speller and I don't really give a crap...hope no wannabe big shots or pretend englishmen "loose" respect for me...

Weak...truly weak...


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Y'see in the real world when we need to make sure something is spelled properly, we can just use that nifty little spell checker thingy in MS word or whatever....


I've yet to find an adequate spell checker or automated grammar corrector.

" What's with that stupid green squiggily line! I *meant* for that sentence to have five dependent clauses!"

"It's supposed to be *therefor* dammit- not *therefore*!"

etc...


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

It's true that no spell checker will catch everything, but they DO help a lot. 

I've always found grammar and spelling to be interesting, but when I type a long letter for my boss, it's nice to have the backup proofreading.

I do think it's best to use proper grammar and spelling, although I try to not go overboard on judging other people on the internet. For the most part, I'd rather have most of them posting than not posting.

When I'm getting resumes for a job, though, I find it irritating and seldom will consider people who have typos in a resume. I run a small accounting department and people HAVE to be observant of details.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Have to say I more than a little bit agree with Gabba. Grammer and spelling are all well and good but there seems to be an attitude thing here. Perhaps it's just a natural part of forums like this. Does everything _have_ to be soooo serious? Reminds me of threads regarding certain articles of clothing, shorts for instance. You get the attitude "_Oh, I never wear shorts, a gentleman never would."_ I guess I'm not in that class, you know the one that never does any manual labor, who has someone cut their grass or wash their car. If my posts here at Ask Andy were related to my job, or if I were trying to impress a potential love interest - then they would be perfect. Until that time, it's just not that big a deal.


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## jph712 (Mar 22, 2007)

*My pet peeves...*

My peeves, adopted from my Father, are:

1. The improper use of the apostrophe 'S'. Too many people try to pluralize with an apostrophe 'S' and that shows possession, not plurality.

2. Use of 'myself' instead of 'me.' I had a manager that always used 'myself' in the place of 'me' and many co-workers started doing it as well.

Grates on the nerves I tell you.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*MPCSB!*

Gentlemen,

mpcsb, very good on. I love that joke.
Gentlemen, I have had comments over the course of time, about my writing, spelling, or what have ya.
Each one there own, I have no gripes about dicktion? Help here, is this correct?
My writing was described as poetry, I love this one.
This forum gives me a chance to apologize to those who are troubled with my writing, and spelling.
I know, there is spell check, but dont have the time!!!
Going to get a tatoo!!

Later
Nice day my friends


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I sure hope you make sure that the tattoo artist watches his spelling!!!!

Nothing worse than being branded with a permanent "Moher" inside a heart!!!


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> WA, you have been pwned.


I thought it was pwn3d.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

fenway said:


> I thought it was pwn3d.


Actually, "wtfpwn3d u emo, resto drood lawl"


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Spelling*

Wayfarer,

I knew what you wrote!
Have nice day gentlemen


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

DukeGrad said:


> Wayfarer,
> 
> I knew what you wrote!
> Have nice day gentlemen


"wtfpwn3d u emo, resto drood lawl"
Jimmy, you understand that? OK, I give....translation please.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

mpcsb said:


> "wtfpwn3d u emo, resto drood lawl"
> Jimmy, you understand that? OK, I give....translation please.


This is a great example of the compression of information using slang.

wtf = what the f*ck

pwn3d = "you have been owned", which is roughly equal to "you had your azz handed to you on a platter"

u = you

emo = many variations. Original meaning was a semi-goth wannabe type person, now sort of a generic "poser" type term

resto = Restoration, a specialization tree for druids in World of Warcraft

drood = druid

lawl = newest, coolest way to say "lol"

Darn, I just exposed how geeky I can be.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Actually, "wtfpwn3d u emo, resto drood lawl"


This may be able to be cured- please see a neurosurgeon.:icon_smile_wink: :icon_smile_big:


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

*Wayfarer*

:icon_hailthee: :icon_hailthee: :icon_hailthee:

I am not worthy, hey I'm old, OK.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> This is a great example of the compression of information using slang.
> 
> wtf = what the f*ck
> 
> ...


I thought emo was a bunch of punk posers who cry a lot. Emo being a shortened version of "emotional music."
Usage: Cheer up emo kid, life's not that bad.

fenway, 
I have seen the word spelled both ways, pwned and pwn3d. I think the Warcraft game mispelled it pwned.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> I thought emo was a bunch of punk posers who cry a lot. Emo being a shortened version of "emotional music."
> Usage: Cheer up emo kid, life's not that bad.


Could well have been punk posers vs. goth posers. Been 10 years, hard to remember  The "emo" part is correct, it was for "emotional music" just could not remember whether it was goth-lite or punk-lite.



Laxplayer said:


> fenway,
> I have seen the word spelled both ways, pwned and pwn3d. I think the Warcraft game mispelled it pwned.


I think it just depends how wtfl33t you are on how you spell it 

Oh, I forgot to toss in "nub" too back in my original full iteration. I could have tossed in an "l2p" too maybe.

wtfpwn3d u emo, lol l2p u resto drood nub lawl

The reply would be:

orly? my main would wtf melt ur face


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> Could well have been punk posers vs. goth posers. Been 10 years, hard to remember  The "emo" part is correct, it was for "emotional music" just could not remember whether it was goth-lite or punk-lite.
> 
> I think it just depends how wtfl33t you are on how you spell it
> 
> ...


1337 !$ /\ $7/2/\<\>C-3 []D#3<\>0/^^\3<\>0/^^\.


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## kabert (Feb 6, 2004)

Someone who can't spell or use grammar well may (nonetheless) be smart, rich, funny, good-looking, athletic, and gentlemanly. Others though will inevitably question his intelligence and the quality and seriousness of his education, especially when the mistakes are "the basics" noted above that were taught in 9th grade -- its versus it's; your vs. you're; definite vs. definate; etc.


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

I con_cur_, Kabert. I've been nearly _rabid_ about those very same illiteracisms since I joined the pack of internet-_hounds_ in 1998. :icon_smile_big: 

Non-words are taking over the internet like antibiotic-resistant plagues, and you've just cited one of the most prevalent of them, "definate" --meaning something that has fins, I reckon, rather than something stemming from "finite." Others are "burgandy" (referring to burnt organdy, perhaps)--yes, I saw it as an option on ebay's official list of colours; "lavendar", and "seperate". Etymology is not taught in schools anymore, otherwise, people would remember how to spell words. Reading on the internet, in nearly every sort of communiqué and venue here, has been extremely enlightening, not to mention frightening. How can so many people with college degrees be unable to spell, punctuate, and construct sentences correctly? The future looks bleak for the English language. 

People who fancy themselves "writers" do not possess the basic tools of their craft; painters are no longer taught how to mix colours, and apologists for both are working very hard to justify the lapses. The "intellectual" elite is fiddling while the language burns. I used to edit textbooks, among other things. Even academics are sorely lacking in standards these days. As William Safire once asked, in his old _On Language _column, "If they can't get it right at Princeton, what hope is there for the rest of us?"

I had considered turning-tail and running away from this topic, since I don't like to shoot at ambulances, but your post, Kabert, was irresistible.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

I try to make sure my posts are understandable and spelled correctly, but mistakes get through. When I find them, I fix them. Luckily, I tend to spell fairly well. I have a relative, though, who has terrible, terrible trouble with spelling. She's a smart, college-educated woman; she just has never been able to spell. Sometimes she can't even get close enough to the proper spelling to find the word in the dictionary. You can dismiss her if you'd like, but I'd consider you foolish for being so eager to judge. Making no effort is one thing, but trying and falling short is another, I think.

Ironically, I find that many of the folks who are most fanatical about spelling and grammar know less than they'd like to think.


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

Mr. Holliday,

_I_ wouldn't "dismiss" the woman--I'd simply believe that she is dyslexic, and benefited from the system's decline, making it through school while not being able to form words on paper.

To Ask Andy Members in General:

Some of us are gifted with good powers of memory, and paid attention in school. For everyone else, there's _spell-check_. 

And, before another illiterate construct spreads like wildfire across the internet, there is no such word as "ya'll." The contraction of _*ye all*_ is *y'all*, _y'all_!

Inquiries require question-marks. In response to the original query on this thread posed by Chase Hamilton, _yes,_ careless mistakes make a bad impression. Witness the glaring thread title, *Who's Your Favourite Royal*. Is that a statement or a question? Incidentally, "*Who*" is _not_ my favorite royal!

P.S. What's "grammer"--a diminutive of g_randmother_? The word is GRAMMAR!

Spelling and grammar are not mindless pursuits done by rote; rather, thay are processes of reasoning. If anyone would like to dismiss that and ridicule those who place importance upon them, do so at your own peril.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

People do occasionally leave typos and incorrect spellings up, mainly because this is an internet message board, not a resume. (I would place an accent in resume but I have no clue how.) Wait, is it is résumé or resumé?

Now I'm just second-guessing myself.

Here's a tip: if you're a poor speller/apostrophe-placer, the Firefox browser has a spellcheck function.

I can live with a misspelled word or two, as long as it isn't "looser". That's just looserish.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

VS said:


> I can live with a misspelled word or two, as long as it isn't "looser". That's just looserish.


Me two, eye ah gree.


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## eg1 (Jan 17, 2007)

The Wife said:


> To Ask Andy Members in General:
> 
> Some of us are gifted with good powers of memory, and paid attention in school. For everyone else, there's _spell-check_.


Spell-check will not catch homophones. I call the proliferation of such errors "spell-check disease" ...


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

eg1 said:


> Spell-check will not catch homophones. I call the proliferation of such errors "spell-check disease" ...


I can't bare that.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

What can you bare?


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

You are quite correct that _spell-check_ cannot catch homophones, a fact about which I have been warning people for years, but it is better than nothing at all for some poor unfortunates. That's why it is called _spell-check_ rather than _spelling, context, syntax and punctuation-check_! It must be used in tandem with an actual BRAIN! I cannot type to save my life, but to save my reputation, I will visually scan my copy for typographical errata.

A few years ago in Princeton, while a Rutgers English professor was the editor of the local paper, the _Princeton Packet_, homophonic mistakes issuing from that source were abundant. Ever vigilant, I once called their office to report a very serious one. A member of the Princeton Tigers Glee Club was killed during a singing trip in Florida. The Packet described him as an "alter boy." Adding that insult to the tragedy for the young man's family was unconscionable. In another howler, the _Princeton Packet_ interviewed a man whose father used to be the governor of New Jersey. The fellow reminisced about the mansion in which they had lived, a place called Morven. He recalled climbing up and "sliding down the polls" outside in the garden. Reliance on spell-check is far from perfect, because of a little thing called context, but for those who refused to learn to spell in school, the least they could do is employ it and subsequently scan their piece for usage. 

People have defended their ill-use of the apostrophe by calling it a consequence of haste. Their argument falls to pieces when they take the time and effort to incorrectly _add_ apostrophes to plural words. I'm wondering whether or not the prevalent misuse and disuse of the apostrophe are attributable to schools no longer teaching its applications. 

I visited a site called _Eons._ Nearly every single reference to weight-loss I saw there was described as _LOOSING _weight--and those were presumably written by people over fifty years old. The internet is a breeding-ground for misspellings. I'm not suggesting that anyone change their habits. 
Just as dressing well is a personal choice for self-presentation, so is expressing one's self correctly.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

The Wife said:


> I visited a site called _Eons._ Nearly every single reference to weight-loss I saw there was described as _LOOSING _weight--and those were presumably written by people over fifty years old. The internet is a breeding-ground for misspellings. I'm not suggesting that anyone change their habits, though.
> Just as dressing well is a personal choice for self-presentation, so is expressing one's self correctly.


Loose for lose is one mistake which makes me want to gouge my eyes out, as I've mentioned.

The other is: "your", as in "your crazy!" My crazy what? My crazy hat? Mi vida loca?

There is another thing I see often enough, and that is breath for breathe. "In the wrestler's grip, his opponent could not breath". WHAT IS THAT?

If that's acceptable in some context, please let me know. These errors scream "I don't ever read - not even the paper!"


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

VS said:


> Loose for lose is one mistake which makes me want to gouge my eyes out, as I've mentioned.
> 
> The other is: "your", as in "your crazy!" My crazy what? My crazy hat? Mi vida loca?
> 
> ...


Don't let it phaze you.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Patrick06790 said:


> Don't let it phaze you.


It's just a faze wee half two go threw. No reason too bee babie's about it.


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

*VS*, _touché_! Every spelling and usage gaffe that you have introduced in this thread has become an internet standard ("loose" for "lose" is everywhere; "breath" for "breathe" is getting too much air; "your" for "you're" makes me want to pull my hair). Like you, I wonder whether the perpetrators of those crimes against the language have _ever_ actually _read_ anything. It's ironic that the _information superhighway_ is undermining education.


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## BertieW (Jan 17, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> It's true that no spell checker will catch everything, but they DO help a lot.
> 
> I've always found grammar and spelling to be interesting, but when I type a long letter for my boss, it's nice to have the backup proofreading.
> 
> ...


With respect to the resumes, when I encounter those errors, I consider it more than irritating; it's a deal-breaker. Under those circumstances, if you cannot be expected to "get the details right" when you're applying for the job, one wonders what the quality of effort will be six months after I give you the position.

In part, we are losing clear communications because of the new (and truncated) ways of talking to one another. I think that instant messaging plays a significant role, as did (does) email. Maybe it's not the end of the world, but remember what happened when those scientists had a "minor" mishap when they forgot a little communications detail and didn't convert from metric?

https://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

Sometimes the details matter when communicating. Though, admittedly, not so much on this forum.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I agree, a resume with numerous egregious spelling errors is sure to end up in my reject bin. The more key the position, the lower the tolerance I will have for a poorly written resume too. Also, as an aside, I have come to pay attention to a personal email address if given. Two that caused immediate rejections pop to mind:

[email protected]
[email protected]

What were these people thinking (or probably not thinking) about to include such a thing? Please, I am no prude by any means, but that is a little too much information to give a perspective employer!


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## eg1 (Jan 17, 2007)

Wayfarer said:


> Please, I am no prude by any means, but that is a little too much information to give a *perspective* employer!


Er, that's "prospective"

yrs in Pedantry ... :icon_smile_wink:


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

eg1 said:


> Er, that's "prospective"
> 
> yrs in Pedantry ... :icon_smile_wink:


Touche! That is why I was defending the occasional error above. I think multi-tasking leads many of us to do this sort of thing on occasion.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

BertieW said:


> With respect to the resumes, when I encounter those errors, I consider it more than irritating; it's a deal-breaker. Under those circumstances, if you cannot be expected to "get the details right" when you're applying for the job, one wonders what the quality of effort will be six months after I give you the position.


I always tell people they have no idea how little time each resume gets. I read them with a red pen in my hand. You can't afford to make mistakes.


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## Thracozaag (Sep 5, 2002)

Psuedo-intellectuals who deign to use the terms "irregardless" and "very unique" annoy me to no end.

koji


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## 18677 (Jan 4, 2006)

*.*

I guess if some members here are clothing Nazis then they would be anal over spelling and grammer too.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Clothing Nazis!!!

As long as you are wearing a suit when you say that, we will try to be understanding.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> . Also, as an aside, I have come to pay attention to a personal email address if given. Two that caused immediate rejections pop to mind:
> 
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> ...


Gee, wayfarer, I'd think that those would rate a second interview :icon_smile_wink: (LOL)


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

MK said:


> I guess if some members here are clothing Nazis then they would be anal over spelling and grammer too.


...............................................................................................................................................^sic (spelling incorrect)

I find it astonishing that so many people on this board are defending the indefensible: naked barbarism; the decline of standards in communication and comportment, all while wearing their display of outright ignorance as a badge of honor!

And to the genius quoted above: has it dawned on you that this is actually a clothing site? For goodness' sake, if you are so offended by what you term, "clothing Nazis", why not frequent a board where places like this one are roundly vilified? You are clearly wasting your valuable time here.

It must be difficult to get properly tailored with a chip the size of Kansas on your shoulder....


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

*Idiotic?*



WA said:


> I find threads like this idiotic. Why? Because, we are all natural at somethings and terrible in other things, so are we all horrible? If you are not good at something should you be run down. Are you here for ideas or grammar and spelling? This thread shows some people have a huge lack of understanding of humanity. The beginning post sounds like "if you can't engineer the Golden Gate Bridge then you shouldn't be allowed on it, not even talk about it".
> 
> In this world we all have talents. If we all had the same talents life would be lacking much. What I don't like is people who have a talent and then bad mouths those that don't have that talent. Nobody has all the talents. You have a few and that is it. Somethings you are passible on. Other things you completely lack and will never get.
> 
> ...


Again, I ask: _idiotic? _The illiterate paragraphs quoted above are laughable. How dare you criticize people who suggest that an adherence to basic standards of writing is preferable to an outright show of carelessness and ignorance? If something is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Perhaps a thread in which communication is confined to pidgin English is in order here.



> Besides, nobody here uses words as good as one boy I meet.


 My, my--how often do you _meet_? And, what makes YOU a judge of how _well_ he uses words?

As I said before, I don't like to shoot at ambulances, but this one had a sniper on it. To label Chase Hamilton's thread "idiotic" is...*idiotic!*


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## 18677 (Jan 4, 2006)

*.*



The Wife said:


> MK said:
> 
> And to the genius quoted above: has it dawned on you that this is actually a clothing site? For goodness' sake, if you are so offended by what you term, "clothing Nazis", why not frequent a board where places like this one are roundly vilified? You are clearly wasting your valuable time here.
> 
> It must be difficult to get properly tailored with a chip the size of Kansas on your shoulder....


I think you have missed my point........and my humor. Besides.....ladies should never discuss size!


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## BertieW (Jan 17, 2006)

Perhaps we are being uncharitable to monsieur WA. At least he will never be confused as one of those deplorable liberal elites, with their fancy spellin' ways and their perverse East Coast insistence on coherent syntax.

In some circles, he might be held up as the exemplary citizen.



The Wife said:


> Again, I ask: _idiotic? _The illiterate paragraphs quoted above are laughable. How dare you criticize people who suggest that an adherence to basic standards of writing is preferable to an outright show of carelessness and ignorance? If something is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Perhaps a thread in which communication is confined to pidgin English is in order here.
> 
> My, my--how often do you _meet_? And, what makes YOU a judge of how _well_ he uses words?
> 
> As I said before, I don't like to shoot at ambulances, but this one had a sniper on it. To label Chase Hamilton's thread "idiotic" is...*idiotic!*


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

The Wife said:


> I find it astonishing that so many people on this board are defending the indefensible: naked barbarism; the decline of standards in communication and comportment, all while wearing their display of outright ignorance as a badge of honor!
> 
> And to the genius quoted above: has it dawned on you that this is actually a clothing site? For goodness' sake, if you are so offended by what you term, "clothing Nazis", why not frequent a board where places like this one are roundly vilified? You are clearly wasting your valuable time here.




I don't think any of us would suggest that basic standards of writing should be abandoned. The question here, I think, is how much reaction is warranted. If the writer is making a decent effort, that, to me, is sufficient. It's a small person who jumps on a typo or grammar mistake, even if it's "loosing" or the like, when it happens in isolation, or rarely. Yet some folks take great glee in doing so. Such pedantic discussions online are tedious, and usually serve only as a distraction to the topic of conversation. I could, for example, ignore your greater point above in favor of pointing out that the commas around "clothing Nazis" are incorrect, and that the structure of the first sentence I quoted is a bit dodgy. Or that "wearing their display" is a rather curious construction. But I won't, or normally wouldn't, because I understood your point.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

yachtie said:


> Gee, wayfarer, I'd think that those would rate a second interview :icon_smile_wink: (LOL)


If they had given me those in a social setting, no doubt I would have followed up if I was single.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

The Wife said:


> Again, I ask: _idiotic? _The illiterate paragraphs quoted above are laughable. How dare you criticize people who suggest that an adherence to basic standards of writing is preferable to an outright show of carelessness and ignorance? If something is worth doing, it is worth doing right. Perhaps a thread in which communication is confined to pidgin English is in order here.
> 
> My, my--how often do you _meet_? And, what makes YOU a judge of how _well_ he uses words?
> 
> As I said before, I don't like to shoot at ambulances, but this one had a sniper on it. To label Chase Hamilton's thread "idiotic" is...*idiotic!*


Watching the founder of Kinko's on C-Span last night, who has dyslexia, I think you undercut people way to much. If you did some research on dyslexia you would find some of the smartest people ever- have dyslexia. I remember watching a program on TV, maybe 25 years ago- the guy couldn't read, but he got a college degree, had a multi million dollar business, signed hugh checks that he couldn't even read, but he knew how to select the right people to work for him. A guy who wrote a book about dyslexia said that when he was 14 he could go through his algabra book and have all the right answers in a flash, but didn't know how- the teacher gave him an F. When in elementary school 20 minutes after learning how to spell the words I couldn't spell them again, learn them all over, 20 minutes later all gone, if your life depended on me spelling words you wouldn't be around bothering me now. What you don't understand is that nobody has all the natural gifts, which means you are missing some, too. Some natural gifts were experts at, some average and then, some are simply not there.

The boy of 10 wanted precision logic not fuzzy logic. Precision logic demands precision grammar. He made it very clear to me he wanted precision words in there precision location in sentences. In other words, grammar most times picks the exact words. When done right it is indeed a perfect marriage. When he spoke there was a clarity that he has that nobody else has, except maybe one other person. Both these people- grammar is very high in their life. While I don't have good grammar it does not mean I don't know anything about it. I also like fuzzy logic (in other words, nobody is holding my hand when thinking). There is value in both precision logic and fuzzy logic, like classical music and jazz.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

I didnt bother reading this thread bc i think its ridicoulous as well. Some of us spend hours a day writing notes or reports and are fully capable of editing properly but choose not to on here. If you are that upset about grammatical errors on a message board you must have few worries in your life.

MrR


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

MrRogers said:


> I didnt bother reading this thread bc i think its ridicoulous as well. Some of us spend hours a day writing notes or reports and are fully capable of editing properly but choose not to on here. If you are that upset about grammatical errors on a message board you must have few worries in your life.
> 
> MrR


Word...

These are probably the same people who take it as like some kind of personal insult when they see a guy wearing a black suit...it's like OMG get a life...

I wish that was all I had to worry about in a day...


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