# Hate to Travel



## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

It may be age (over 50) or the fact that over the past twenty-five years I have had to do it so much, but generally I hate to travel anymore. I hate airports; I hate airport security lines; I hate crowded planes; I hate a lot of hotels; driving in the NY metro area is terrible, etc... I love going to London, and can highly recommend EOS for all first class travel at business class fares, but nine times out of ten I would rather not go anywhere. I am glad I have co-workers who like travel. Case in point, just got back from an unsatisfactory vacation in NH and Cape Cod. Hotels were too noisy with people who stay up too late and want to make sure I know about it; the Cape is choking with traffic etcl....Frankly I think I am becoming misanthropic to some degree. Now I like decent, nice folks, whether they be friends, acquaintances or strangers, but so many people get on my nerves, that I would rather stay home; spend time in my own pool and avoid travel all together. This worries my wife, but I am afraid that's how I feel these days. 

Alone in this position? (Hope so.)

Joe


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

Joe Frances said:


> It may be age (over 50) or the fact that over the past twenty-five years I have had to do it so much, but generally I hate to travel anymore. I hate airports; I hate airport security lines; I hate crowded planes; I hate a lot of hotels; driving in the NY metro area is terrible, etc... I love going to London, and can highly recommend EOS for all first class travel at business class fares, but nine times out of ten I would rather not go anywhere. I am glad I have co-workers who like travel. Case in point, just got back from an unsatisfactory vacation in NH and Cape Cod. Hotels were too noisy with people who stay up too late and want to make sure I know about it; the Cape is choking with traffic etcl....Frankly I think I am becoming misanthropic to some degree. Now I like decent, nice folks, whether they be friends, acquaintances or strangers, but so many people get on my nerves, that I would rather stay home; spend time in my own pool and avoid travel all together. This worries my wife, but I am afraid that's how I feel these days.
> 
> Alone in this position? (Hope so.)
> 
> Joe


You are fortunate, Joe. My wife thinks I am joking when I call myself a misanthrope.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Again, maybe it is a function of aging (pushing 40) or having done too much business travel (I moved to a local firm after too much travel for a Fortune 100 company), but I too really hate air travel these days. It is like taking the bus through the bad part of town. Screaming kids, fat women in tight jogging pants, unshaven men that have body odor....square toed shoes  ....

Look for travel off the beaten path my friend. Upscale B&Bs that do not allow children are great. Try driving during off hours as weekend are always bad. But yes, staying home has more and more allure these days.


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

Joe

Sometimes, and thankfully it is a rarity... People have been known to toss out 7 years of college and a few graduate degrees to do something wierd like make ties 

My worst travel year I had about 200K butt-in-seat miles, was top tier at I think...4? hotel chains and had gotten into the habit of putting the breakfast menu out on the doorknob each night just so I could ask the guy who brought breakfast what city I was in and who the client was that day. 

Personally? I miss the paycheck sometimes but my favorite part of the day is the 40 minute drive to my daughter's school in the morning, second favorite part is tucking her in and sitting down to a pile of swatches with Jill sitting on one side of me and the dog on the other.

Take a break, sit in the pool, Jimmy Buffet is cheaper than therapy and generally gets better results.


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## AddisonBelmont (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm hardly a misanthrope but I do hate travel. When I was in my 2Os--I'm 55 now--I used to hitchhike all over the place, not so much because it was cheap but because I got to meet a lot of people that way. Sometimes, they were rich, like the blue-hired old lady near Exeter, New Hampshire who pulled over to give me a ride in the rain. We talked about books and it was at her suggestion that I tried Dickens and instantly fell under his spell. If it had been better that day, I might never have discovered the doom-laden world of _Bleak House_.

Sometimes they were poor, like the ancient black farmer down south who told me fascinating stories about a place called Monte Ne as we rattled down rutted country roads in his rusted-out truck--Monte Ne, which I never did manage to see, but which haunted my dreams on the hot summer nights I spent tossing & turning in a damp sleeping bag and swatting the giant mosquitos that breed in the rice fields of Arkansas.

Either way, I loved talking--or, more often-- listening to the people who gave me rides, whether they were bragging about their batting average in the local softball league or griping about their girlfriend's unpredictable moods or explaining how they were trying to develop a new hybrid iris. It didn't matter where I went or what I saw. I could have gone in circles and still had a good time.

But that was then. These days, there are alot of places I'd like to see, but not enough to get me to really travel. not on today's airlines, even though I can actually buy tickets now. I can't remember how many times I've bought plane tickets to go somewhere, booked the hotel, packed my stuff (the worst part of all) and on the morning I was supposed to leave, just decided to forget the whole thing and stay home. It got easier to justify my last-minute changes of heart to my friends after 9-11, but they didn't really have anything to do with fear, although my friends might have thought that's what it was. No, it's just my growing disinclination to make that much effort.

A few years ago, I finally managed to come up with a plan that lets me get out of town with a minimum of planning and even less effort. It's called Amtrak. I can walk over a block, catch the 151 bus to Union Station and eat dinner with somebody I've never seen before, out in the in the middle of nowhere. Sometimes it's a couple on their way to the Greenbrier for their anniversary, sometimes it's a retired actor on his way to a week of Broadway shows, sometimes it's a mathematics professor with an interst in Islamic mosaics. If you talk to people long enough, just about everybody is interesting.

If I go to Washington, I spend my time at the National Gallery. If I go to New York, I spend a few days walking through in Central Park. Maybe I hit a museum or two, maybe I don't. Last time, I decided I wanted a chunk of Manhattan schist--the sparkly gray rock that the park is built on, and that juts right out of the ground at crazy angles here & there--and when I couldn't find one for sale at anywhere, I stopped in at the Armory to see if they could send me in the right direction. They couldn't, but before I came up empty on that score, I ended up in the office of the park historian, whom it turned out I had met before, right here in Chicago, when I gave her a private tour of one of our own landmarks. Like they say, it's a small world.

Anyway, that's my idea of a vacation nowadays: two days of alternating between nodding off over Dickens, talking to strangers over long meals in the dining car, and gazing at endless frozen cornfields rolling past the ribbon windows of the club car. Then a few days of slow walks along the paths of Central Park, then a few more days of talking & staring out the windows. When I get home, my friends will ask me if I had a good time, and I'll tell them I had something better: an uneventful time. No pictures, no souvenirs, no funny travel stories. No news is good news.


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## Jill (Sep 11, 2003)

Then again, I LOVE to travel. I've logged well over 2 million miles on AA, and I still get the itch. I think it's just a personality thing. Some people are "home-bodies". Some are not. *I'm much less tolerant with the "leisure" traveller*, but with some experience, even these folks can be avoided. My family did the Clark Griswold thing every summer of my childhood, and as a result, I'm quite certain that I've seen every cavern and petrified forest in the US. (And I'm grateful!) But there's still so much out there I feel I must see in the world. While I'd seen 44 states by the age of 20, I'd never been off the continent. So I now feel like I'm making up for lost time. I just can't seem to get enough of travelling abroad!! (It's no coincidence that we created a business to facilitate this little habit of mine!!)

So I guess the question is, are you looking for justification to be a home-body because you been everywhere / seen everything you want to see in life? Or are you looking for suggestions / ideas about ways to travel with less stress / annoyance? You're such a sweetheart of a guy, I can't imagine you getting your feathers ruffled by rookie travellers or such.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

over the course of a 60 day period, I am in the middle of traveling to:

Mexico City, Sydney, Melborne, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Taipie, Hong Kong, Bogata, Chile, Porto Rico, Amsterdan, Maastrict, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Tel Aviv, Cairo, Istanbul, Ankara, Geneva, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Panama, and Dublin

almost 20 years, something over 2 million in the seat miles, 2500 or so nights in hotels, I still enjoy travel. Last night I was in Kuala Lumpor for the first time in about 15 years - had a great time, street food in china town, a water pipe listening to arabic jazz in a place with a view of the twin towers. very nice.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Man, I LOATHE travel, for all of the reasons listed in the OP. I also think I have a mild form of agoraphobia--I'm very uneasy if I can't get back to my own house within an hour or so.

Hate sleeping in a strange place--or, more accurately, trying and failing to sleep in a strange place.

Hate being away from my books, records, clothes, stuff.

Living in NYC, I feel like I get enough multicultural stimulation. My wife, a travel nut, has badgered me into going to a few places...and my reacton has been similar to Peggy Lee's: "Is that all there is?"

The frustration, expense, uncomfortableness, humiliation, and paranoia of air travel have never, in my experience, been justified by the "benefit" of whatever far-flung place I've been. Hate it hate it hate it.

I'm curious about the world, but prefer to explore from my armchair, reading, watching documentaries, etc. 

In real life, I look at an ocean or a mountain or a cathedral for a minute or two...and I'm sort of done, wishing I was back in my living room reading a magazine and listening to the Kinks or something. 

I'm going on too long...I'm raw and in the midst of a bitter argument with my wife, who wants me to accompany her to Wales. Why on earth would I want to do that? Endure the torture of airports, a long flight, hotels, exhaustion...to look at postcard scenery and eat weird food? Urgghh.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Oh, you poor sad souls! I'm nearly 70, and travel is the absolute breathe of life to me. I'm leaving this week for Russia, then on to China for a time. I fly only when necessary (like getting to Russia from the US) and yes, it is bloody awful and getting worse by the minute. I prefer rail travel and, in the US, automobile (I have a Porsche GT that is the very soul of comfort and fun, and I would like to have Europe, but it's just too expensive to ship; besides, the rail service is so great there).

It's certainly not a function of age; yes, I get winded a little more easily now than then and the peaks I might choose to climb are a few hundred meters lower, but I've never not traveled; it is even more exciting to me now than in my youth. My late wife and I have driven, flown and railed throughout Europe, North and Central America over the past 40-odd years, excepting a couple of Canadian provinces and Alaska. Since her passing, I have added eastern Europe, Russia and the Mid-east, and with this trip, China. 

I know I'm adequately self-sufficient, so I could survive quite well being "at home", but why would anyone want to? There's a world out there!


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

rip said:


> I know I'm adequately self-sufficient, so I could survive quite well being "at home", but why would anyone want to? There's a world out there!


Exactly! I can get my home exactly the way I like it--the "world out there" is never so congenial.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

Joe Frances said:


> It may be age (over 50) or the fact that over the past twenty-five years I have had to do it so much, but generally I hate to travel anymore.


You have been traveling on business longer than I have been alive.

I'm not a traveler. I rarely leave the state of NC. I've never left the country (and only once went further north than Washington DC. Amtrak to DC to meet a college friend was my last vacation.

I dont like packing up "everything I need" for a few days or weeks, going somewhere, doing some stuff, and then getting back home to feel like I'm behind on everything I have to do.

I'd much rather just walk the 200 yds down to the lake to go fishing for a few hours. Or drive an hour or two into the NC mountains. Or spend a weekend on my parent's farm. Maybe because I'm a travel neophyte and never really expirienced any great foriegn places so I just stay close to home.

It sounds like it would be neat to go overseas and meet some new people, but eh, that doesn't sound very realistic. Language barriers and such. And even then, do you just walk up and say "Hello Germans, I'm an American."

I'm not sure how well recieved bowties are either....

Perhaps if I go back to school I will try and study in Europe.


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## BertieW (Jan 17, 2006)

I wish I could say I didn't understand what you're saying here, Brownshoe, but I identify pretty closely to what you're writing. I think I like the /idea/ of travel more than that reality of it. Books, latte, the NYT. I'm happy.

You really nailed it with the Kinks reference. For me, my guitars and studio equipment are additional comforts.

Although I have to say, the Park Hyatt generally goes some way to soothe my travel angst when forced into it.



Brownshoe said:


> Man, I LOATHE travel, for all of the reasons listed in the OP. I also think I have a mild form of agoraphobia--I'm very uneasy if I can't get back to my own house within an hour or so.
> 
> Hate sleeping in a strange place--or, more accurately, trying and failing to sleep in a strange place.
> 
> ...


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

Oh yeah, another reason I'm wary to travel is the chance of a SHTF event and being trapped in a distant land.

Lebanon being the most recent example.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

*Flying (again)*

My rant of a couple months back, after a trip to Oregon:

Flying is horrible. The wait. The scrutiny. The unfathomable paperwork. The standing around. The overpriced everything. The tiny plane. The seats, designed for short people with no legs. The fat idiots in ill-fitting track suits who refuse to check their enormous carry-alls (lest they lose fifteen precious, high-powered minutes waiting at the baggage carousel) attempting to cram the things into a compartment that is clearly too small. The sidetrack into wondering why school personnel didn't notice that as children these people routinely poured way too much liquid into a glass and failed completely at any task involving spatial relationships. The further musing on why such nascent ********** aren't simply taken out to the shore, chained to rocks and left to wait for the tide to do its work. The begrudging appreciation of the snarky genius behind the airlines' solving years of complaints about bad food by simply eliminating food, except for a dry, discouraged sandwich and bag of chips served in an incongruous miniature shopping bag - the kind with a ersatz rope handle. The bags probably cost more than the sandwich.

The wait at Chicago. The crowds of people merrily yakking away on their cell phones, apparently willing for the entire world to overhear their wretched business. The boozers grabbing enough fuel at the bar to keep their blood alcohol levels okay until the next stop. The young women with their pudgy tummies showing, chewing gum and repeating the mantra "ohmoigawd." The High-Powered Executives, hair greased back, wearing a black unvented suit with the sleeves too long, square-toed shoes, a loud tie and an earnest expression meant to convey the intensity of commerce but looking more like indigestion. These people sit down, open a briefcase or laptop, and get on the phone to say things like "At the end of the day, we need to get 110 percent from your side, Ralph, so let's think outside the box and really push the envelope here." The Wandering Goobers, a family of six flying to San Francisco to visit crazy Aunt Sarah, who left Tulsa all those years ago and is always asking them to visit, not dreaming for a minute they actually would.

Yes, Virginia, there is a hell, and it's run by the American airline industry.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

Patrick06790 said:


> The fat idiots in ill-fitting track suits who refuse to check their enormous carry-alls (lest they lose fifteen precious, high-powered minutes waiting at the baggage carousel) attempting to cram the things into a compartment that is clearly too small.


I have a little sympathy with them. I take commuter flights 4 - 8 times a week and those 15 minutes mount up. My biggest niggle is the Krispy Kreme doughnut stall in Sydney airport. Krispy Kreme is relatively novel in Oz, and every flight from Sydney has half a dozen passenger with four or five cartons of cloying confectionery. L'Enfer, c'est les Autres.

Aus


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

Aus_MD said:


> I have a little sympathy with them. I take commuter flights 4 - 8 times a week and those 15 minutes mount up. My biggest niggle is the Krispy Kreme doughnut stall in Sydney airport. Krispy Kreme is relatively novel in Oz, and every flight from Sydney has half a dozen passenger with four or five cartons of cloying confectionery. L'Enfer, c'est les Autres.
> 
> Aus


I don't check bags, either. like you said, it adds up.


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## Jill (Sep 11, 2003)

I rarely check bags on short trips either, but after the 2MM I've flown, I'm pretty adept at swinging it up and into the overhead with one fluid motion - no black eyes or bruised shoulders around me. What takes the typical leisure traveller 2-3 minutes to accomplish, road warriors can do in 5-10 seconds. Just depends on whether or not we have to arrange the overhead compartment first... Which is why I tend to ride up front - fewer rookies. I have very few luxuries in my life. That's one of 'em.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

May none of you know the joys (said trying to be as least sarcastic as possible) of being a police officer and having to do a prisoner extradition, which involves flying. You want to know a whole new level of annoyance and wasted time, try it. I've done 1 in 3 years and trust me not doing one again wouldn't bother me at all.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Patrick06790 said:


> My rant of a couple months back, after a trip to Oregon:
> 
> Flying is horrible. The wait. The scrutiny. The unfathomable paperwork. The standing around. The overpriced everything. The tiny plane. The seats, designed for short people with no legs. The fat idiots in ill-fitting track suits who refuse to check their enormous carry-alls (lest they lose fifteen precious, high-powered minutes waiting at the baggage carousel) attempting to cram the things into a compartment that is clearly too small. The sidetrack into wondering why school personnel didn't notice that as children these people routinely poured way too much liquid into a glass and failed completely at any task involving spatial relationships. The further musing on why such nascent ********** aren't simply taken out to the shore, chained to rocks and left to wait for the tide to do its work. The begrudging appreciation of the snarky genius behind the airlines' solving years of complaints about bad food by simply eliminating food, except for a dry, discouraged sandwich and bag of chips served in an incongruous miniature shopping bag - the kind with a ersatz rope handle. The bags probably cost more than the sandwich.
> 
> ...


Preach It!

I had such a horrible experience last time I flew--

An autistic boy of maybe 12 or 13 had a complete meltdown as we taxied around the runway--it was sort of terrifying. He was just SCREAMING with terror and making the most heart-wrenching, awful sounds, and flailing wildly. He injured himself and was bleeding freely, slinging plasma around his seating area.

It was very sad and my sympathies were with him and his desperate parents--but, because of some airline regulation, they couldn't just escort him and his family off of the plane. They kept us all trapped in there for over an hour, as the boy screamed and thrashed with superhuman stamina and intensity. The small children aboard began crying hysterically. It became unbearable. The plane was small and there was no respite from the sorry spectacle--everyone's nerves were completely shredded. And we all missed our connections, because when the appropriate personnel FINALLY arrived to take the family off of the plane (a veritable SWAT team), the powers that be decided we ALL had to get off for some unfathomable reason. We milled around in the waiting area (which was full to capacity with passengers waiting for the next flight) for another hour, unable to leave to get something to eat or just sit down for a few minutes for fear of missing the re-boarding announcement.

I will do everything in my power to never fly again. It's just the worst.


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

Brownshoe - BOSE noise cancelling headphones, worht the $300.

I think my worst flight was a hop from Dallas to Chicago by way of St Louis and 2-3 other airports over the course of 8 hours.

The thunderstorms were bad enough to knock people down but that wasn't the problem. The panicy woman next to me wasn't the problem.

The problem was that every time we went through a storm and hit turbulence the foolish woman woke me up to 'warn me'. Eventually I asked the flight attendant to stuff her in the overhead bin but that was not an option so the attendant - who I'd flown with a dozen times that month - convinced her that the back was safer.

I mean - I am not wild about being woken up under the best of circumstances. If, perchance, I am 15 seconds from dying in a fiery splat against the side of a hill I SURELY don't want to interrupt a perfectly good dream. I'd rather face my Creator with a yawn and a stretch and 'hey, Cleveland was never this pretty before' than in a panic.... but that's me.

Air travel is tolerable with noise cancelling headphones and a decent book. Rookie passengers or the hysterical crashophobes really need to be sedated and flown as cargo rather than in seats.

Travle is more fun now that it isn't a mad dash to make meetings on time, I'm fairly laid back to begin with and with no deadlines if the pilot comes on and says we're diverting to Mars to refill the drink cart and get some gas I'm cool with it - just don't wake me up to tell me about it.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Chuck Franke said:


> People have been known to toss out 7 years of college ...


So you just quit after your sophomore year at EKU?

[Posting from a hotel room at a place that isn't quite up to Marriott status yet (but they're giving it the old college try) after flying on a prop plane from Chennai to Hyderabad. You wouldn't believe the odd looks the Indian security guys give an iPod. I've only had to make the hotel switch me once today to a new room because of hotel construction noise.]


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

AlanC said:


> So you just quit after your sophomore year at EKU?


This from a man whose High School Health class included a full semester on "Why you should brush your tooth".


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Trenditional said:


> May none of you know the joys (said trying to be as least sarcastic as possible) of being a police officer and having to do a prisoner extradition, which involves flying. You want to know a whole new level of annoyance and wasted time, try it. I've done 1 in 3 years and trust me not doing one again wouldn't bother me at all.


Been there, done that and yes, it can be very trying. However it does provide an early answer to that annoying, age old question of "who will be sitting in the seat next to yours" on the flight!


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

*Me too*

I echo most of the comments on travel. Especially since 9/11, it's just been the pits.

My idea now of an ideal vacation is to find a small, picturesque, sleepy town out in the country somewhere, and just go and hang out. You know, the kind with a real "Main Street," a town square with the Civil War soldier monument and old cannon arrayed around it, the Town Hall on one side and the church on the other.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Patrick06790 said:


> My rant of a couple months back, after a trip to Oregon:
> 
> Flying is horrible. The wait. The scrutiny. The unfathomable paperwork. The standing around. The overpriced everything. The tiny plane. The seats, designed for short people with no legs. The fat idiots in ill-fitting track suits who refuse to check their enormous carry-alls (lest they lose fifteen precious, high-powered minutes waiting at the baggage carousel) attempting to cram the things into a compartment that is clearly too small. The sidetrack into wondering why school personnel didn't notice that as children these people routinely poured way too much liquid into a glass and failed completely at any task involving spatial relationships. The further musing on why such nascent ********** aren't simply taken out to the shore, chained to rocks and left to wait for the tide to do its work. The begrudging appreciation of the snarky genius behind the airlines' solving years of complaints about bad food by simply eliminating food, except for a dry, discouraged sandwich and bag of chips served in an incongruous miniature shopping bag - the kind with a ersatz rope handle. The bags probably cost more than the sandwich.
> 
> ...


A short masterpiece of American prose! I developed a positive loathing of travel by the time I was 23 and had returned from Oxford. I disliked riding trains. I disliked staying in cheap hotels, living out of a suitcase, eating in cheap restaurants, getting sick in unfamiliar places (had a helluva case of dysentery in Greece), the whole thing.

Flying is worse yet. I have little to add to Patrick's superb observations except for the indignity of being frisked every time I get on the damn plane! (Must be my long beard and turban and the copy of the Koran in Arabic that I always take on the plane for spiritual solace!)

I also don't like to be away from the things that make my life pleasant--my dog, my books, my wardrobe, my guns, etc.

Moreover, it is all so bloody expensive, especially with the weak dollar these days. I would much rather spend the money spent on travel on tangible goods like clothes that I will have in perpetuity.

Finally, why bother? With the Internet, things like the Travel Channel and innumerable picture books on the remainder shelf at the local B&N, I have a pretty good idea of what most parts of the world look like. For instance, do I really need to spend thousands of dollars to go to the north coast of Australia to look at some lush tropical vegetation and the odd crocodile or water buffalo?

I have sometimes remarked that if for my many and greivous sins, I am most justly sent to Hell and I am told that Paradise is but a 20-hour commercial airline flight away, I think I'd elect to stay in Hell!


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

I hate to fly also, especially after reading Brownshoe's story! Airlines are just such a hassle. As a kid we always drove to our destination for family vacations. My mother is claustrophobic, so she would never get on a plane unless it were absolutely necessary. So, we packed up the old Volvo wagon and headed out on the road. My brother and I hated the thought of driving then, but looking back now I see that we had some good times together. Being cramped in a car forces you to get along, and talk to each other. We are the best of friends to this day, so maybe those trips had something to do with it. Driving also allows you to see the country instead of just flying over it. I'd like to do an Atlantic to Pacific trip someday, but my wife isn't really into it...she would rather fly and get there quickly. Maybe someday when my son is older (and any siblings he may have by then are too) we can pack the car up Griswold-style and head across the country.


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## Jill (Sep 11, 2003)

JLibourel said:


> ...I also don't like to be away from the *things that make my life pleasant*--my dog, my books, my wardrobe, *my guns*, etc....


Quoted for posterity. That's just funny!


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

Jill... get the full quote honey


> Flying is worse yet. I have little to add to Patrick's superb observations except for the indignity of* being frisked* every time I get on the damn plane! (Must be my long beard and turban and the copy of the Koran in Arabic that I always take on the plane for spiritual solace!)
> 
> I also don't like to be away from the things that make my life pleasant--my dog, my books, my wardrobe, *my guns*, etc.


The guy longing for his beloved gun collection is frisked.... there is irony in that.
Nothing like a nice warm semi-automatic - chicken soup for the Libertarian soul.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Flying is indeed wretched, but....*

I agree with all those who dislike flying. But, airplanes get me places to which I can't drive, like Berlin, Paris or Zurich. Once there I'm on the train, and, especially if it is a City Night Line train, it's all very pleasant.

Everything goes in a soft carry-on and a rucksac or briefcase. Like Jill, I can get the stuff up and into the overhead quickly without collateral damage.

Last year my wife and I went to Madrid and Barcelona. In September we're off to Paris and Zurich. She carries even less than I do, although we'll have clothes for evening concerts.

At 61 I am heading into my third year of retirement. I like being home with my books and guns, and my wife. (My dog died and I can't bear the thought of getting another.) But I also like my monthly drive to Mendocino and several days of studio and dark room work.

In June I drove from LA to Erie, Pennsylvania and back, with stops to visit friends and see things. In a couple of days I'll leave Butte, Montana with a rentatruck full of paintings and the antique Range Rover on a trailor and drive back to LA via Mendocino (Fort Bragg, actually). I'm looking forward to a few days of linen and spectators.

This spring (actually winter) I dragged my 19 year old son along on a European business trip. We detoured through Paris, as I could not imagine missing the opportunity to take him there. We froze as we walked about for two days. We went to museums, deux Magot, Lila, and had coffee with a friend who has lived there since the 50's. I made my son drink wine. (He prefers Budlight). We took a second class sleeper to Zurich and he was grossed out by the chamber pot pissoir in the compartment. We had lunch several times with James Joyce and Lenin, I think it was Lenin who hung out there, at the Cafe Odeon. We went to a concert (wearing jackets and ties) at the Tonhalle. We rode trams. We walked around on the Uetliberg. We rode the funicular up the the university where a friend's father studied. It was cold. I could not have done these things if I hadn't endured the flights over and back. (Flight back was Lufthansa, Zurich to LA direct. The airport was a 10 minute train ride from Hauptbahnhof.) I was glad to get back to books and guns, and wife.

Travel light and sleep on the train.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

I like being in places other than my home, but, as with others who have posted on this thread, I hate getting there. Air travel these days takes the patience of a saint. I deplore that the United States has opted for security theater rather than real security, and I deplore it more because the particular brand of security theater that the United States has chosen for its air travel system is so annoying.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

Gurdon said:


> I agree with all those who dislike flying. But, airplanes get me places to which I can't drive, like Berlin, Paris or Zurich. Once there I'm on the train, and, especially if it is a City Night Line train, it's all very pleasant.
> 
> Everything goes in a soft carry-on and a rucksac or briefcase. Like Jill, I can get the stuff up and into the overhead quickly without collateral damage.
> 
> ...


Gurdon,

I can't wait to take my son with me to Europe, as well.

bty, most of my internal european business travel in on night trains, too. another excellent aspect is that you get on the train in the evening in the city center, you can be in a meeting and then 15 minutes later you are on the train, or you can be sitting in a resteraunt having dinner, and then get right on the train. no drive to the airport, no security, very civillized. and then, in the morning, you are in the city center again.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*Trains are indeed civilized*

It is so much nicer travelling with big kids, than with children.
Did a similar trip with now 21 year old when he was 19. He spent a week at a giant puppet workshop in Morinesio, Italy and wound up a foodie. He did not require encouragement to drink wine.

We managed to walk a lot during our two days in Paris. Morning of the second day he had me out the door of our Left Bank hotel at 6:00 am. It wasn't til 8:00 that I could get coffee (on Isle st Louis, with apologies for misspelling). I showed him the approximate table in Brasserie Lipp at which a friend had had lunch with a couple of well known figures in the early 1950's, and the alley where another noteworthy participated in a traditional form of commerce.

Our night train experience included a couple of teen age soccor teams, much noise and little sleep. Our ride up the valley from train station in Cuneo followed two truckloads of cows on their way to summer pasture, transhumance exemplified, and later that evening amplified, when dinner included local cheese (resembling fontina, only, of course, better) from the same herd.

Gute Reise 
Gurdon


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

Gurdon said:


> It is so much nicer travelling with big kids, than with children.
> Did a similar trip with now 21 year old when he was 19. He spent a week at a giant puppet workshop in Morinesio, Italy and wound up a foodie. He did not require encouragement to drink wine.
> 
> We managed to walk a lot during our two days in Paris. Morning of the second day he had me out the door of our Left Bank hotel at 6:00 am. It wasn't til 8:00 that I could get coffee (on Isle st Louis, with apologies for misspelling). I showed him the approximate table in Brasserie Lipp at which a friend had had lunch with a couple of well known figures in the early 1950's, and the alley where another noteworthy participated in a traditional form of commerce.
> ...


several years ago, about when my wife was pregnant with my son, I was in my favorite brassarie in paris, on a business trip. at one of the next tables was a group of men about 50, with a boy who was about 15 or so. it appeared that the men were old friends, and the boy was the son of one of them. they were locals. the boy was a little ackward, but picked up what he was supposed to do, and it apeared that a good time was had by all. since then, one of my mid term goals is to be able to bring my son back to that place to have a meal and see paris. of course, after 15 years of thinking about it, I will get there and my son will not enjoy it at all, but what can you do?


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

globetrotter said:


> several years ago, about when my wife was pregnant with my son, I was in my favorite brassarie in paris, on a business trip. at one of the next tables was a group of men about 50, with a boy who was about 15 or so. it appeared that the men were old friends, and the boy was the son of one of them. they were locals. the boy was a little ackward, but picked up what he was supposed to do, and it apeared that a good time was had by all. since then, one of my mid term goals is to be able to bring my son back to that place to have a meal and see paris. of course, after 15 years of thinking about it, I will get there and my son will not enjoy it at all, but what can you do?


My 19 year old thanked me for showing him what I liked. And he does now talk fondly of our March trip to Europe. So, if your son will agree to accompany you, by all means go for it. 
We had lunch in Brasserie Lipp, Zurich, and the nice, somewhat older couple next to us traded Paris restaurant tips and generally set a good example of civilized behavior. And they were nicely dressed.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

I think most reasonable men are "misanthrope" in that we should only really have a few close friends.

As for travel, I do not enjoy the mechanics of it, but I do enjoy being in foreign locations, and have purposely crafted my work to take me to such places.

M8


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

Brownshoe said:


> Man, I LOATHE travel, for all of the reasons listed in the OP. I also think I have a mild form of agoraphobia--I'm very uneasy if I can't get back to my own house within an hour or so.
> 
> Hate sleeping in a strange place--or, more accurately, trying and failing to sleep in a strange place.
> 
> ...


thank you.

Joe


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## MichaelS (Nov 14, 2005)

As far as I am concerned, 6 to 8 or even many more hours in a cramped airplane, waiting in cramped, hot, noisy, smelly airports, missing connecting flights and waiting even more in long lines of hot, smelly, angry people in different airports and then getting on another crampoed airplane is well worth it in order to be able to travel across the country and the world. One day of slight discomfort in order get to someplace wonderous is very easy to deal with (for me anyway). I always bring several good escapist type books that do help you survive the airport horrorshow. 

I do not understand why so many people would rather watch travel shows instead of visiting the real places. TV shows don't begin to match the actual experience. If you hate areas heavily crowded with tourists, they are very easy to avoid, go to non-tourist areas, go during the off season, etc.

As to regional jets, yeah they are pretty uncomfortable, but for business, 3 hours in a regional jet (yes they are using them for longer and longer flights) beats the heck out of driving the same distance for a one or two day meeting.

Oh well, if more of you would stay home, that would be better for those of us who like to travel!

MichaelS


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

over the past 3 weeks, I have:

riden ferries across sidney bay and hong kong bay
seen a platapus, koalas, kangaroos and a wombat
had 2 water pipes while listening to arabic techno music with a view of the Kuala Lumpur twin towers
had a half dozen great meals of dim sum, some fantastic soup dumplings, some great noodles (in a variety of different ways) and some great malaysian curries. 
bought 10 great bespoke shirts, for about what I would have paid for lands end shirts


there are benifits to travel


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

I only enjoy traveling alone. It's not something I've developed in the last few years of air travel with one, then two, and now three small children either. I don't like it with other adults either (sorry honey) When I'm by myself I can be social if I want and meet new people. I can also just keep it all to myself and watch the world around me. If I have to move quickly I can, I don't have to worry about the other person getting lost or loosing their wallet or needing to go to the bathroom right before the plane has to load. I think I just like to be in control of the situation and that's impossible when traveling with another person. 
I also much prefer driving to flying. I'd rather spend 2 days in a car than the 6 hour debacle it takes to fly the same distance. In two weekends I'm flying from Texas to Michigan by myself to pick up a car from my father and driving it back. This is an incredible vacation for me and I'm looking forward to it with glee.


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