# Bill's Khakis--Are They Worth It?



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Was looking at the website for Bill's Khakis the other day. They are indeed good-looking khakis, and I like the fact they are made from sturdy 8.5-ounce fabric.

However, I can get attractive, serviceable flat-front khakis from Target for $20.

Are Bill's, in terms of elegance and durability, really worth five times as much? I'd appreciate your opinions.


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## PennGlock (Mar 14, 2006)

They're worth the price for their fit. Bills M2 is simply the best cut for a khaki that anyone offers. For a guy in reasonable shape, you can't do any better, M2 has the right amount of fabric in all the right places. 

Do not expect Bills to necessaritly last any longer than other makers. They're well-sewn, but overall constructions doesn't have much over the cheaper brands.

The 8.5 oz twills are nice, but my favorite khakis from Bill are his special weights. Poplin and Chamois cloth are both very comfy in the summer. The Bullard Field Pants (10.2 oz) might be my favorite pair. They wear like iron.

I dont think I would be too keen about paying $100+ for the special edition cloths, or even $80 for the regular chinos. Ive picked up all 5 of my pairs from Ebay for between $40-$55 shipped. Most were marked irregular, but I can not find any kind of defect in any of my pairs. Maybe I got lucky, but a lot of people on AAAT have had the same experience. There are 2 ebay sellers who are really reputable, but I can't remember their names.


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## Thornhill (May 14, 2006)

If you are happy with the khakis from Target, buy them and save yourself some money. The Bills twills are my least favorite of the lineup because of the heft and finish. I favor the poplins and chamois cloth in the warmer months and the corduroys -- beach cloth/dixie wale and 6-wale -- in the cooler times of the year, particularly if a coat and tie are required. They are a bit more . . . refined, maybe? Anyway, if the Target khakis fit and feel right, enjoy.


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

Thornhill said:


> If you are happy with the khakis from Target, buy them and save yourself some money. The Bills twills are my least favorite of the lineup because of the heft and finish. I favor the poplins and chamois cloth in the warmer months and the corduroys -- beach cloth/dixie wale and 6-wale -- in the cooler times of the year, particularly if a coat and tie are required. They are a bit more . . . refined, maybe? Anyway, if the Target khakis fit and feel right, enjoy.


I'm kind of like this, although I get mine from the Eddie Bauer outlet for 10.00. Usually, if I'm wearing Khakis I'm out working with my German Shepherd who is likely to ruin them somehow, so I tend to not spent too much money on khakis 

But, it would probably be good to build up a stock of "dress" khakis and keep them away from the dog...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

My experience with Bill's resonates with much of what PennGlock reported. Bill's look great and I couldn't ask for a better fit than that provided by the M2s'. However, with three of the seven pair of Bill's that I have purchased (including a pair of the Anniversary Twills @ $150), they have actually worn and frayed, at the cuff, more rapidly than my $30 and $40 chinos. Spending that much more for khakis, I expected a much longer term of service from that additional investment...I did not get it. Therefore, I will focus on buying the BB Clarks Advantage chinos, when on sale, at about $34 a pop...a better value in my book!


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

I think of khakis as fairly disposable items and wouldn't get too worked up about the difference in brands based on quality. In my experience, the coton wears about before the construction gives way. The main thing is fit. One advantage of a brand like Bill's is that you can expect some consistency in fit. With brands like Target, you have to worry about their designers chasing whatever is the current fashion. If you like the fit from Target, consider getting an extra pair or two to put aside. My favorite pair of khakis is a plain front pair from the Gap. Of course, that cut is long gone. They may bring it back in a month, or a year, but I will have no way of knowing unless I drop in every week and try things on. In the meantime, I wear the ones I have, which have been getting shorter as my wife secretly trims the threads off the fraying bottoms. On a recent trip, I stopped in the Banana Republic outlet and picked up a pair of khakis that I expected to be similar to the Gap pair (same ownership). I was wrong. The fit is off in a bunch of places and the cotton, while slicker, is also crappier.

BTW, I am wearing a pair of Bill's poplins from Sierra Trading Post. As Thornhill mentions, they are a great fabric for summer. They are also well made. I had a couple of pairs of Bill's khakis too, but they vanished during a housecleaning. I assume they will turn up eventually. I like none of them as much as I like the Gap khakis.


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## Chris H (Oct 30, 2004)

I've owned three pair of Bill's M2s, one twill from ebay and two pair poplins from STP. 

They were all so baggy that before I could wear them I had to have them extensively tailored to fit around the hip area. The regular twills have been OK, but the poplins have not been at all satisfactory, even after the tailoring they still didn't fit properly and they wrinkled very easily. 

A while ago familyman posted a thread on cheap chinos. I decided to look for myself and see if I could find a pair of cheap khakis that fitted me well. I tried on all the usual low-end suspects, Wal-Mart, Gap, Bannana Republic etc, but ended up buying two pair of the Target $19.99 khakis as these were the best fit. I've had them three months or so, wearing and washing them often. They are holding up very well so far. 

For me it was mainly about getting the best fit at a reasonable price. Of course it will depend on your body shape as to which make of khaki will fit best.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

The chino is my default trouser, and I have them in all descriptions.
The old JC Penney Retro was a one-off - mine are still going strong.
LL Bean, some of them dressy, some destined to become fish pants
Orvis, generally the most consistent fit for me of the non-Bill's brands
One pair of O'Connell's, which I like but the fit is a little off for me, not sure why. I think letting them out a bit would take care of it.
Lands End, the least appealing of the group to me
And Bill's. I have several pairs of twills in M1 and M1P, and poplins in M1 and M2. I like the poplins especially.

(The reason I like the M1 pleated version is that it's a single forward pleat that, combined with the long rise, works on my weird torso in a way double reverse never do. So if I must pleat, this is the way to go.)

I get my Bill's from Hansen's or Eljo's. It's worth it to me, as the alternative is eBaying them for $50 or so, taking them to the over-worked alterations lady, and waiting forever.

As my older chinos make their way into the fishing wardrobe, I will probably replace them - slowly - with Bill's, with M2 for flat front and M1P for that other thing.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

I have considered the same question many times.

For me, the real draw of Bills is the long rise. Otherwise, in my opinion, they are not the greatest in terms of construction. They are not as nicely constructed as many and do not have lapped seams. 

For cheap khakis, I have been very pleased with the Long Rise options from Lands End. This gives me almost the rise of Bills, but at much less cost. Unfortunately, Lands End seems to be offering fewer Long Rise models with a flat front. Also, the fabric is not as substantial (except for the old vintage model).

Another optioin (in addition to Patrick's input above) is Kevin's khakis from kevinscatalog.com. They are US made and well constructed. The fit is not as full as Bills though.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Tom Buchanan said:


> For cheap khakis, I have been very pleased with the Long Rise options from Lands End. This gives me almost the rise of Bills, but at much less cost. Unfortunately, Lands End seems to be offering fewer Long Rise models with a flat front. Also, the fabric is not as substantial (except for the old vintage model).


LE has cut back on long rise models everywhere, it seems, except double reverse wool trousers. Unfortunate.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Tom Buchanan said:


> For cheap khakis, I have been very pleased with the Long Rise options from Lands End. This gives me almost the rise of Bills, but at much less cost. Unfortunately, Lands End seems to be offering fewer Long Rise models with a flat front. Also, the fabric is not as substantial (except for the old vintage model).


I liked the school uniform khakis LE was offering, Patrick first brought these to our attention, but then they discontinued them. All of the current khakis LE offers, just don't measure up in terms of fabric. Also, the size of the front pockets holes have gotten very small, I have average size hands and can barely get my hands inside the pockets. I did send some e-mails to their customer service about it and go the standard response "we'll look into it" I'm not holding my breath.

Brian


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

As chinos are my default trousers, I almost always look as much for price as for construction quality. Fit, of course, is the most important. Heretofore, the now-defunct JC Penney retro chino has been my khaki of choice. Once I learned that 40x30 with them was but a vague indication of size and that they had, apparently several different models parading under that one name, I figured out how to get my size and fit, I literally bought out the store, so that I have sufficient to last me for a few years. That said, I just ordered a pair of Bill's poplin chinos which should arrive momentarily and I will compare them with my other pants and we'll see.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

All this in-and-out running is just part of the deal when you join the Chino Nation, I guess.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

As I've posted many times, I love the Bills M1. I've bought about 10 pair on the 'bay at $30 - $50 and then add $13 for hemming.

I have mostly twill in M1, but have some M2s and M2Ps - one heavy chocolate colored pair, 1 pair chamois, 2 pair oxford cloth and 1 pair moleskin (I have not worn - waiting for winter). I will only buy M1s in the future.

Fabric is heavier than any other pants I've had. The fit of the M1 for me is the most comfortable I've ever tried. I like the long rise. I like the big pockets. They look great with big (1.75') cuffs. Overall, they just feel better to me. I like that they are made in USA.

I won't go back to other khakis, and will even pay full price for Bills, given how much better I like them over all the other khakis I've tried. It would seem worth it to me to get exactly what I want. However, I keep trolling ebay and buy every M1 I see in my size.


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## Hobson (Mar 13, 2007)

Finding long rise trousers is indeed a problem. I periodically check with Brooks Bros., but they haven't carried long rise khakis in years. Other than Lands End or Lands End custom, there really is not a lot to choose from.


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## philm (Jun 17, 2007)

I talked to my trad clothier this morning as I picked up a new pair of Bill M2s. He was just back from a buying trip and met either Bill or a representative of that worthy Pennsylvania establishment. He said Bills was diversifying in cordouroy, and other things. We should watch for that. The trick with Bill's is for tall guys like me to make sure you get the long rise Bills which is about 3" more material. I feel better in those. 

There are so many khaki brands to choose from. I like Bills after having tried many because it stays closest to my real waist, does not sag, below the bulge, and dry cleans real well. I also like the 1 3/4" cuff that rides perfectly above my loafers.

Much better that JAB, Nautica, and some of those in my humble opinion.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

to the OP, you have to try them on. Put them on, look at yourself in a mirror, and the decision will be very clear. You either look like money in them or swim in them.

I adore them.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

I have one pair of M2s, and I love them, but I bought them on sale. As well as they work for me, I've been pleased with just about every brand of khaki I've tried, and most are a lot cheaper, though not as well-constructed.

I think if price vs. satisfaction is what you're wondering about, I'd say try a pair and see if it's really worth it for you.


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## wolfhound986 (Jun 30, 2007)

I will chime in with a good word for Bills. They look good pressed and cuffed, and the fabric is more substantial than the majority of the khakis out there. 

I concur with dopey, with Bills, consistency in fit is a major plus. 

The M2 pleated works for me best; I would wear those trad flat fronts if they fit me properly. 

Paperclip, I'm another one of those people who appreciate that they are made in the USA.

I've tried Eddie Bauer before, but they seem to change the cut and fabric every few years, which is frustrating, so they're out of the running at this point.

I used to enjoy Lands End khakis in terms of price/quality but the fabric used since Sears bought them has not been the same quality-wise, much thinner and more wrinkled.

And J. Crew chinos are the most wrinkled of all. They take forever to iron.

So at this point, Bills are the gold standard.


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## philm (Jun 17, 2007)

I think this thread is about dead but a travel experience today coming back from Hilton Head board meeting over the weekend makes me want to comment on the flat Bills. I wore two pair of MP1s on Friday going down and Saturday and Sunday at meetings. The fit was superb. I saved my British Tan Flat Fronts for today to return home. I happened into the Salty Dog store and bought a neat $19.95 SUrcinigle belt that I put on the Bills Tans this morning. O.k. until I started walking through airports and then alternatively sitting and standing. The Bills slipped down and I spent the rest of the day at war with pulling them back up. Upon arriving home I put them in my cleaners bag although they had another wear before cleaning in them. Also with the narrower belt the waist band kept sagging over the belt. Not a pretty site. 
I had experienced a bit of this discomfort before so I put them through the washer and dryer. It has not helped. 

I'll make myself wear these flat front British tans which are heavier than the twills and hope for the best. But like someone said above, for all practical purpose they are exactly my size; but I think that the weight pull them down. On the other hand the lighter Bills are not a problem.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

My Bill's poplin m2Ps are back from the tailor and I have to join all those supporters of Bill's; although I can't compare fabric between poplin and my other heavyweight chinos, the fit and finish of these are excellent, perhaps the best of any khakis I've had. Bravo, Bill!


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## MarkY (Mar 24, 2005)

PennGlock said:


> They're worth the price for their fit. Bills M2 is simply the best cut for a khaki that anyone offers. For a guy in reasonable shape, you can't do any better, M2 has the right amount of fabric in all the right places.


I've had a different experience. I'm 5'7", weigh 158 and my BF was just calipered at 10%. So, I'd say that is "reasonable shape". Bill's Khaki fit me like I'm wearing potato sacks. They have fabric all right, a lot of it.


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## Bob_Brooks (Feb 21, 2006)

I am wanting to purchase a pir of Bill's, I have a quick question, If I wear a 34 waist in Polo would I order a 34 waist in Bill's or should I go with a 35? I hear Bills waist fits a bit snug. Thanks in advance.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Bob_Brooks said:


> I am wanting to purchase a pir of Bill's, I have a quick question, If I wear a 34 waist in Polo would I order a 34 waist in Bill's or should I go with a 35? I hear Bills waist fits a bit snug. Thanks in advance.


Give yourself the extra inch...while Bill's may be generous in the allocation of fabric through the seat and legs, they do not give you anything around the waistband. In my experience, they have fit more snugly at the waist than some of the other brands.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

disagree.

IMO, bill's waist sizing is inconsistent. I order size 30, but the actual waist measures 31 inches.


Just order your true waist size.


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## romafan (Apr 29, 2005)

Bills have come a long way! I had the pleasure of hanging out w/ Mr. Thomas when he would visit some of his Denison buddies in Philadelphia back in the late '80s. Back then the khakis were still a pipedream, but he always had an interesting assortment of tie-dyed ties...

If they fit you, Bills are an exceptional product!


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I order 1 size smaller waist in Bills Khakis. I think there is no way to make a "rule" - 1" bigger or 1" smaller. Just know that Bills are longer rise which means they sit higher on your waist. If you have a big belly you might need a size larger. If you have a flat belly you might need a size smaller; or not.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Give yourself the extra inch...while Bill's may be generous in the allocation of fabric through the seat and legs, they do not give you anything around the waistband. In my experience, they have fit more snugly at the waist than some of the other brands.


+1. I buy all my khakis the same waist size, and Bills are by far the snuggest.


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