# Caveat Emptor: The Shirt Collar - Rules vs. Myths



## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

*The Shirt Collar - Rules vs. Myths*

*The "Correct Collar" Rules:*

Here I diverge greatly from the vast majority of common myths. The only hard and fast rule to which I adhere is as follows, and it is more the theory of simple optical illusion than any other. I call it the "Egg on A Pedestal" Rule:

If the client in question is corpulent _(that's P.C. for overly abundant)_, a wide spread collar is unwise. Why? Picture an egg sitting atop a shallow mountain peak. The egg will tend to look rounder and more squat than if you had balanced that egg atop the point of an inverted ice cream cone. The length of the ice cream cone will increase the perceived height and elongate the appearance of the egg.

Translate egg into a roundish countenance, shallow peak into shoulders, and ice cream cone into close-point collar and you'll understand. The optical perception of elongation provided by a closer-point collar tends to make the rounded face appear thinner. A good guideline to follow. Aside from that there are no strict rules except the obvious opposite circumstance. A close-point collar coupled with an extremely narrow face will accentuate the narrowness.

Preference - and work environment - are the key considerations in the arena of collar style.

*Collar Style*
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The diagram to the above shows the various ranges of collar spreads. The most appropriate for conservative environments are 2, 3, & 4. Number 1 is the Close Point referred to above. Number 5 begins the Wide Spread category. In the majority of work environments 2, 3, and 4 would be the logical, safe choice.

*Collar Details*
Height
Collar front height needs be in proportion to neck length. Very long necks can be shortened in appearance by wearing a collar which is higher in the front. Conversely, shorter necks are lengthened by wearing a collar which is cut low in the front. Height in the rear of the collar must relate to the height of your suit collar. A simple rule-of-thumb is that one-half inch of shirt collar should protrude above the rear suit collar. As an aside, the back of the hair should be trimmed sufficiently in order that it does not cover the back of your shirt collar.

*Collar Stitching*
Edge-stitched topstitching versus quarter-inch topstitching. Although the quarter-inch is the more traditional, edge-stitching blends into rather than breaking up the flat surface of the collar and cuffs. Therefore, this look tends to be "cleaner" in appearance. Personally, I prefer this clean look.

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There are also physical ramifications. The collar stays in a quarter topstitched collar cannot be inserted all the way to the collar point as they can with edge-stitching. Hence, if the collar point presses against your collarbone, it may tend to bend up at the end. Ugh! On the contrary side, there is 1/2" more loose cloth with the edge-stitched style. When ironing this style the tendency for the fabric to bunch up and cause a wrinkle at the edge of collar, cuffs, or center placket is greater. Finally, edge-stitching is harder to sew and therefore generally avoided - or poorly executed - by most makers.

*A Collar's Tie-Space*
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"Tie-Space" is the space made when the collar leaves do not meet at the center front. Quite simply, this is space left by the shirtmaker to make room for the tie knot. Obviously, because the spread of points in a spread collar already leave adequate space for most tie knots, this is not an issue with spreads. Close point collars, however, either need to be worn with a very narrow tie knot - note the photo of Tom Wolfe - or need to have space where they meet in front. As you can see, the moderately spread Rather collar fits the tie knot adequately.

*Special Dress Shirt Collars*
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_Note the tie-space in the Brooks type button down, the tab, and the eyelet collars._

In the diagrams, the 'spread diagram' collars 1 through 6 are all made without tie space. In the Special Collars diagram, the Brooks-type button down, the eyelet, and the tab collars all have about one-half inch of tie-space.

Copyright ©2010 Kabbaz-Kelly CustomShirt1.com | Photos Copyright ©2007-©2010 Alexander S. Kabbaz - All Rights Reserved - Reproduction Prohibited​


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I've got a fever, and the only cure is more Alex Kabbaz!


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

PJC in NoVa said:


> I've got a fever, and the only cure is more Alex Kabbaz!


PJC: Here are some more Kabbaz-Kelly collars. Hope these hold you for a while: :icon_smile:

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_Mel and Becca, A Collection of Sartorial Excellence hostesses, in Kabbaz-Kelly RTW shirts_​


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Found an interesting one in the files. This is a "stock collar", so named after the stocks used as punishment in days of yore. Made to be worn to a charity event in a few years ago.

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Here's an awful photo of it in use:

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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Jeez Alex, where do you find these girls!?

You seem to be full of pictures of beautiful women. I'm jealous.


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## Simon Myerson (Nov 8, 2007)

I have found that, for a narrow face like mine, it isn't so much the angle of the points as the length that makes a difference. When Lucy Adams started making me shirts she suggested the same spread look as I had always worn, but smaller. The difference was subtle but lots of people said the shirt was very nice. 

Also, I think the stock collar is not named after the implement in which your legs were clamped, but rather after the stock - a forerunner of the tie, which extended high on the neck and therefore required a tall collar. On the other hand, if you starch it, it would certainly be an instrument of torture.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Leighton said:


> Jeez Alex, where do you find these girls!?
> 
> You seem to be full of pictures of beautiful women. I'm jealous.


 It's a hard life. 



Simon Myerson said:


> I have found that, for a narrow face like mine, it isn't so much the angle of the points as the length that makes a difference. When Lucy Adams started making me shirts she suggested the same spread look as I had always worn, but smaller. The difference was subtle but lots of people said the shirt was very nice.


 Absolutely! The length of the points, as well as the height of the collar as it goes 'round the neck, are also of paramount importance.



Simon Myerson said:


> Also, I think the stock collar is not named after the implement in which your legs were clamped, but rather after the stock - a forerunner of the tie, which extended high on the neck and therefore required a tall collar.


That is entirely possible. However, in its use in the colonial U.S., stocks clamped legs, arms, and the neck or just arms and neck leaving the prisoner standing. I believe that the use of this punishment device may pre-date the common use of collars. Nonetheless, both philological arguments may have merit. Anyone have a definitive citation? If it helps, the "stock" collar is also known as the "ascot" collar.



Simon Myerson said:


> On the other hand, if you starch it, it would certainly be an instrument of torture.


 If I may quote from the above pictured wearer in a 1970's _Rolling Stone_ interview, "A gentleman must be willing to suffer for style". The man certainly _walks the walk_, for as you may have surmised, the collar is triple fused in most areas; quadruple fused in select parts.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> However, in its use in the colonial U.S., stocks clamped legs, arms, and the neck or just arms and neck leaving the prisoner standing. I believe that the use of this punishment device may pre-date the common use of collars. Nonetheless, both philological arguments may have merit. Anyone have a definitive citation? If it helps, the "stock" collar is also known as the "ascot" collar.


I don't think I have anything that puts it beyond dispute, but my OED has a couple of entries (out of the many pages devoted to the dozens of definition of the word "stock" - evidently one of the more mutli-faceted words in our language) that suggest the neckwear-derived definition.

First: "A kind of stiff close-fitting neckcloth, formerly worn by men generally, now only in the army [this is a rather old edition of the OED, I should add]. *In the first quot. app. the collar band of a shirt*... 1700...'They also wear their collar open to shew the diamond button of the stock of their shirt.'" (Emphasis added.)

Second: "stock-buckle, a buckle used to secure the stock or cravat."

None of this is as evocative as the collar-as-punishment etymology; but entertaining and vivid word origin stories are often taken as the hallmark of apocrypha by lexicographers. But I don't know the real answer.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

There was a point-in-time - exactly what century escapes me - that men wapped a cloth 'round their necks and held it in place with a button/pin. The shirt in use then was the 'tunic' shirt which had only a neckband and no collar. OED may be referring to this. That's about the end of my ability to shed light on this, but I shall check some of my period references later and add more if I find any.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Just to be clear, I don't think either of the OED entries is talking _directly_ about the collar. I just read them to reflect a pattern of calling items of clothing that were _associated_ with the neckwear stock as "stock" this or that. Since the collar you showed obviously would be a suitable match for stock neckwear, it would be in keeping with this pattern for it to have been called a stock collar.


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## Simon Myerson (Nov 8, 2007)

Alex may be right. The stand up punishment was called the pillory in the UK (hence 'to be pilloried') but if it was known as the stocks in the USA then that would lend support to his view.

Vive la difference - as they say in Canada


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

FWIW:

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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> It's a hard life.


It must be! (Alex thinking: "I wonder which picture of a beautiful woman I shall post today.......") *poor attempt at humor*

What about collar construction? Or is that for a new thread?


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Alex,
Do you make detachable collars?


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Matt S said:


> Alex,
> Do you make detachable collars?


Constantly. The "stock" collar above is a detachable.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> Constantly. The "stock" collar above is a detachable.


What do your customers do for laundry?


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## InlandIsland (Dec 18, 2009)

Here and there I have seen references to matching collar types to one's face type. Is there anything behind this? My face is slightly long and angular - does this mean that there are collar types that I should favour and, likewise, avoid?


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Matt S said:


> What do your customers do for laundry?


 Some have housekeepers who either knew what they were doing or whom they have sent to us for training. Others use our weekly _Home Laundress_ service. There are a few commercial laundry services which can usually handle fine work such as Ladies Who Launder or Madame Paulette in Manhattan, Ernest Winzer in the Bronx, and Rave Fabricare in Arizona.



InlandIsland said:


> Here and there I have seen references to matching collar types to one's face type. Is there anything behind this? My face is slightly long and angular - does this mean that there are collar types that I should favour and, likewise, avoid?


 For a long and angular face you would want to avoid long pointed collars. A moderate spread would probably work best.



Leighton said:


> It must be! (Alex thinking: "I wonder which picture of a beautiful woman I shall post today.......") *poor attempt at humor*


Hmmm. Let's see. ... Here Sarah is showing the new 'vogue' collar which will be available beginning in April 2010.

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I don't think many will be asking them to duplicate this on their dress shirts ... but always willing to try.



Leighton said:


> What about collar construction? Or is that for a new thread?


 I'm working on one.


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*stock staring mad*

isn't a stock a kind of 18th and early 19th century cravat?


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

turban1 said:


> isn't a stock a kind of 18th and early 19th century cravat?


In later years, the cravat goes around the stock collar. However, in days of yore men would sometimes take a cravat-like long strip of fashioned cloth, wrap it around their neck, and hold in place with a pin/button. Sometimes the button had a diamond or other jewel in front. The strip of cloth was, at times, referred to as a stock.


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