# Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig!



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig!
Happy Saint Patrick's Day to you all.

Today everyone is Irish

https://www.irishtimes.com/


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)




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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Featuring Charles O'Carroll, from Middlesbrough, on drums.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

The remains of the ancestral home.....


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Horslips, great band!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

We sold our family pile in Rosslare in 97. It was too large, too run down and too creepy to keep. And with all 3 brothers in London we had neither the time, the money nor the inclination to fix it up.

The site was cleared years ago and I think several of those horrible little bungalow type holiday homes were built there.

Me, bitter? hhhhhmmm....


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Happy St. Patrick's Day, indeed.

It is good, really, to have it on a Tuesday. The annual celebration here was on Saturday, and it proved the usual gathering of falling down drunks with vomit running down the streets and alleys by mid afternoon. I'm not above having a mug or two, but has St. Patrick's Day always been an excuse to get stupid drunk?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

If you were really Irish, you wouldn't need an excuse!!


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

WouldaShoulda said:


> If you were really Irish, you wouldn't need an excuse!!


Is that a line from "Family Guy"?

Commercialised St. Patrick's Day is an American invention.

The Guinness company and greetings card companies helped it along.

In my day, in England, at primary school it was shamrock and those little medals - plus "hail glorious St Patrick" at mass and England v Ireland at football in the playground.

In Ireland, the big parade malarkey had not yet taken hold. Now the mayor of London sees it as another vote-winning opportunity.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

I was surprised to land in San Francisco on March 17th one year and see all these groups walking around in Ireland rugby shirts. I did realise they had become part of the costume.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> If you were really Irish, you wouldn't need an excuse!!


You're not racially stereotyping are you?


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> Commercialised St. Patrick's Day is an American invention.
> 
> The Guinness company and greetings card companies helped it along.
> 
> ...


Spot on sir! And no one wore green clothes when we were kids. In fact, woe betide any London Irish kids seen by anyone's mother, not just your own, wearing green clothes! Like you say, it was the green rosette with harp, a mass card and that was it. Traditionally, through fear and history, even now many Irish people will not wear green. My mother doesn't even like anyone in her family wearing green. Which was a shock for her when I became a soldier! But I only came home in DPM combats and full battle order once, and that was during the Falklands War. Otherwise she only ever saw me in civvies.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Spot on sir! And no one wore green clothes when we were kids. In fact, woe betide any London Irish kids seen by anyone's mother, not just your own, wearing green clothes!


My school blazer was green. Catholic school. So five days a week green featured prominently.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I had a maroon blazer at Our Lady of Victories RC primary school (Kensington)
And a black blazer at St. Thomas More's RC comprehensive secondary school (Chelsea)


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Chouan said:


> You're not racially stereotyping are you?


I'm no Clarkson, but I'm willing to give it a try!!



> *Jeremy Clarkson* punched his Top Gear producer Oisin Tymon in the face following a 40-minute rant in which he swore at him and referred to him as a "lazy Irish", eyewitnesses have claimed.
> 
> The presenter of Top Gear, who has been suspended pending an internal BBC investigation into his conduct at a hotel in Yorkshire during filming of the show, is said to have threatened to have Tymon sacked during the heated row over food.
> 
> A guest at the hotel where the BBC team were staying said Clarkson was furious to find that there was no hot meal available when he and his co-presenters James May and Richard Hammond returned from a drinking session at a nearby pub.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motorin...-and-called-him-lazy-Irish.html#disqus_thread


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I'm no Clarkson, but I'm willing to give it a try!!
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motorin...-and-called-him-lazy-Irish.html#disqus_thread


You're not taking him as a role model are you?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Chouan said:


> You're not taking him as a role model are you?


We are the same age, so we developed independently. 

I think May said it best; "He is a knob, but I like him."

Most incidents of TG ethic humor are funny.

Punching a co-worker (if proved) or acting a boor isn't.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Perhaps I am a fuddy duddy, but I fail to see any humor in stereotyping the Irish as drunks. It falls incredibly flat.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> Happy St. Patrick's Day, indeed.
> 
> It is good, really, to have it on a Tuesday. The annual celebration here was on Saturday, and it proved the usual gathering of falling down drunks with vomit running down the streets and alleys by mid afternoon. I'm not above having a mug or two, but has St. Patrick's Day always been an excuse to get stupid drunk?





32rollandrock said:


> Perhaps I am a fuddy duddy, but I fail to see any humor in stereotyping the Irish as drunks. It falls incredibly flat.


:beers:


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

32rollandrock said:


> Perhaps I am a fuddy duddy, but I fail to see any humor in stereotyping the Irish as drunks. It falls incredibly flat.


You're right, it isn't funny. The Irish quarter of my family tree comprised a passel of inebriates. The results were anything but humorous.

I'm lucky in that I love to drink (I mean, I really love it) but have no difficulty stopping -- or not starting if there's nothing really tasty in the way of alcohol. And I never get drunk. Unfortunately, St Patrick's Day seems to be a day on which to celebrate insobriety, and in Lent no less! That last part is the one that has always confused me.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

MaxBuck said:


> You're right, it isn't funny. The Irish quarter of my family tree comprised a passel of inebriates. The results were anything but humorous.
> 
> I'm lucky in that I love to drink (I mean, I really love it) but have no difficulty stopping -- or not starting if there's nothing really tasty in the way of alcohol. And I never get drunk. Unfortunately, St Patrick's Day seems to be a day on which to celebrate insobriety, and in Lent no less! That last part is the one that has always confused me.


The part that really puzzles me is when St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday. I don't know about anywhere else, but around here, the church suspends the no-meat-on-Fridays-during-Lent rule so that people can eat corned beef without going to hell. Always struck me as odd. Perhaps the Vatican has investments in the brisket industry.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

32rollandrock said:


> I'm not above having a mug or two, but has St. Patrick's Day always been an excuse to get stupid drunk?


No, not in truly religious families it hasn't been. Religious people like myself and religious families go to mass today & maybe have 1 or 2 drinks at home with family later.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

32rollandrock said:


> Perhaps I am a fuddy duddy, but I fail to see any humor in stereotyping the Irish as drunks. It falls incredibly flat.


I agree, nationalist racism of ones neighbours is still racism.

And Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear is the most obnoxious knut on UK TV, closely followed by his racist lap dog, Richard Hammond. They aren't even funny that's what makes it even sadder and even more irritating.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> And Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear is the most obnoxious knut on UK TV, closely followed by his racist lap dog, Richard Hammond. They aren't even funny that's what makes it even sadder and even more irritating.


So Clarkson accusing Gypsy children of casting a spell on Hammond and shrinking him was not funny??

Try to keep in mind, that sometimes the inappropriateness of the humor itself is what makes it funny.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> So Clarkson accusing Gypsy children of casting a spell on Hammond and shrinking him was not funny??
> 
> Try to keep in mind, that *sometimes the inappropriateness of the humor itself is what makes it funny*.


Not one of those cases.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Check this one out;

4million viewers, 177 complaints!!



> The BBC Trust has ruled that Jeremy Clarkson's joke comparing a Japanese car to the Elephant Man was offensive to people with facial disfigurements, and criticised Top Gear's production team for a "regrettable lapse of editorial judgment".
> 
> Wilman said that the presenters' comments had gone through a full BBC compliance process, so the corporation's compliance system and editorial team were "as much to blame as the presenters and arguably more so".


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/oct/01/top-gear-jeremy-clarkson-elephant-man


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

32rollandrock said:


> The part that really puzzles me is when St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday. I don't know about anywhere else, but around here, the church suspends the no-meat-on-Fridays-during-Lent rule so that people can eat corned beef without going to hell. Always struck me as odd. Perhaps the Vatican has investments in the brisket industry.


Corned beef and cabbage is another American thing. It is bacon and cabbage.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> The part that really puzzles me is when St. Patrick's Day falls on a Friday. I don't know about anywhere else, but around here, the church suspends the no-meat-on-Fridays-during-Lent rule so that people can eat corned beef without going to hell. Always struck me as odd. Perhaps the Vatican has investments in the brisket industry.


Casting aspersions eh??

Why I oughta...


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

As Kingstonian said, we eat bacon with our spuds and green cabbage in Ireland and Britain, not beef.Also, that suspension sounds very American, I cant say ive ever encountered it in Ireland or UK.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> Corned beef and cabbage is another American thing. It is bacon and cabbage.


Never was a big fan of cooked cabbage (except for cabbage rolls). We're having corned beef tonight, but with carrots and potatoes and an onion thrown in for flavor. One of the best parts of St. Patrick's Day is the days after, when corned beef goes on sale. Gotta love those reuben sandwiches and corned beef hash.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

32rollandrock said:


> One of the best parts of St. Patrick's Day is the days after, when corned beef goes on sale. Gotta love those reuben sandwiches and corned beef hash.


Reuben is definitely a yank thing.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Cabbage is vile stuff and the whole bacon and cabbage tradition is more of a culchie thing.
We had a balti this evening.

Anyhow, in keeping with the Irish music, here are two stand out tracks that need more exposure.

From Cork, The Sultans of Ping FC...


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> Reuben is definitely a yank thing.


I have never been to England or Ireland, but I have heard that these nations rank with Scotland in terms of haute cuisine.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

And from the Ringsend, Dublin, the band that should have made it, (they used to play gigs with U2 in the early 80's) but sadly, through double-crossing record companies and sheer bad luck they faded. The Blades.
Still constantly voted the best Irish single ever in Irish radio polls.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Odradek said:


> And from the Ringsend, Dublin, the band that should have made it, (they used to play gigs with *U2 *in the early 80's) but sadly, through double-crossing record companies and sheer bad luck they faded. The Blades.
> Still constantly voted the best Irish single ever in Irish radio polls.


U2 never should have made it. Poseurs.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

I just watched this with my kids; I hope it meets with approval: https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Kells...id=1426646299&sr=8-1&keywords=secret+of+kells. It did give me the opportunity to enjoy Brendan Gleeson's voice.

Tomorrow I'm taking the whole family to hear Lúnasa, who are always in DC for this holiday.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Odradek said:


> Cabbage is vile stuff and the whole bacon and cabbage tradition is more of a culchie thing.
> We had a balti this evening.


Ireland still has a strong rural tradition. Cabbage is great stuff and floury potatoes (bacon not so much).

There are no Indian restaurants in Kiltimagh.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhStWCAy7Uk​​


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> I have never been to England or Ireland, but I have heard that these nations rank with Scotland in terms of haute cuisine.


I spent two wonderful and largely besotted weeks in Ireland back in 1991, and to this day I regard it as the nicest place I've ever been. I've been to a lot of places, so that's saying something. Stunning beauty. Amazingly friendly people. I hitchhiked, mostly, and went from pub to pub listening to music and eating.

The highlight? Getting up the courage at a dance in Knocknagree (in a barn next to a bar... I was told about it by a dairy farmer who gave me a ride from the ferry port in Rosslare, where I had arrived from France) to ask a girl if I could partner with her when I saw her partner disappear, perhaps to go to the bathroom. I don't know what the dance was called, but it was insane fun. The girl and the three other couples in our group were super helpful given that I had no clue what I was doing. The music was provided by two guys, one with a fiddle, the other a small accordion-like thing.

That whole day was wonderful. Before the dance I killed time in a pub, where a family sort of grabbed me and forced me to drink and play pool with them. The father told one joke after another. I couldn't understand a word he said, but it was clear when he got to the punch lines because his kids would crack up; I did likewise. That went on for several hours.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Are we talking about what is called streeky bacon in the UK and Ireland, or what we in the US call Canadian bacon, which is more or less like ham? In the latter case, by the time you have boiled the cabbage and "Canadian" bacon, the resultant mushy animal protein, having had any flavor/flavour it might have had leached out, most nearly resembles over cooked texturized tofu.

But then people "over there" eat bubble and squeek, which, despite the obvious refrences to digestive processes under the influence of sulfur and overcooked onions, might taste good thanks to large quantities of suet. (I watched it being made on a UK TV cooking show featuring two women on a motorcycle.)

Regads,
Gurdon


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Gurdon said:


> Are we talking about what is called streeky bacon in the UK and Ireland, or what we in the US call Canadian bacon, which is more or less like ham?


It is a joint - not rashers of bacon.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Kingstonian said:


> *It is a joint* - not rashers of bacon.


How do you light it?:tongue2:


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Gurdon said:


> Are we talking about what is called streeky bacon in the UK and Ireland, or what we in the US call Canadian bacon, which is more or less like ham? In the latter case, by the time you have boiled the cabbage and "Canadian" bacon, the resultant mushy animal protein, having had any flavor/flavour it might have had leached out, most nearly resembles over cooked texturized tofu.
> 
> But then people "over there" eat bubble and squeek, which, despite the obvious refrences to digestive processes under the influence of sulfur and overcooked onions, might taste good thanks to large quantities of suet. (I watched it being made on a UK TV cooking show featuring two women on a motorcycle.)
> 
> ...


No, the bacon in question isn't bacon as you or I know it, but basically like a big piece of ham.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

So, whether it's their kind of bacon or our version of corned beef, a salty, fatty, preserved piece of mammal flesh gets boiled with cabbage to the point that it hasn't much flavor/flavour and easily falls apart. There doesn't appear to me that there is much basis for disagreement over the merits, relative or otherwise, of the items under discussion. 

I can't speak about Ireland or the UK regarding St Patrick's Day, but most of the celebrants in Butte, Montana, famous for its St. Patrick's Day celebration, are likely to be too drunk to notice the taste of whatever they might be eating. So, in a sense, the differences, such as may be, between theirs and ours don't matter much.

On the other hand, my maternal grandfather's corned beaf and cabbage was always delicious, but I think he cooked it early enough in the day to have been sober during the cooking.

Gurdon


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Some good recipes for "Pig's bum and cabbage".
https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/5843/boiled-bacon-with-cabbage-and-carrots
https://www.europeancuisines.com/Irish-Boiled-Bacon-Pork-And-Cabbage-March-8-2009
https://www.welovedonegal.com/bacon-and-cabbage.html





It certainly isn't tasteless.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Gurdon said:


> So, whether it's their kind of bacon or our version of corned beef, a salty, fatty, preserved piece of mammal flesh gets boiled with cabbage to the point that it hasn't much flavor/flavour and easily falls apart. There doesn't appear to me that there is much basis for disagreement over the merits, relative or otherwise, of the items under discussion.


If people are clueless and also happy to be clueless then you are right. Leave them to it.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Bacon and cabbage was a a big thing in county association dinner dances. Probably too culchie for Odradek, but a huge feature of Irish social life in London back in the day, along with Catholic parish clubs.

To quote Mr. Shine again:-

"When I'd be heading to somebody's wedding 
a few pints the first thing I need. 
then when I'm able, I move to the table 
ready to eat a good feed 
I dont want your starters or afters, 
the ould square of butter or jam 
Just give me a big plate of bacon and cabbage 
an' I'll belch like a bull when I'm done 

Oh when you go for a nosh, at a hotel real posh, 
they'll give you a menu to read, 
but you'd need the knowledge, of ten years in college, 
to find out the food that you need. 
Dont bother with all that ould rubbish, 
ask for the meal you love best. 
A big heap o' spuds with the bacon and cabbage, 
man that will put hair on your chest"


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

Kingstonian said:


> Bacon and cabbage was a a big thing in county association dinner dances. Probably too culchie for Odradek, but a huge feature of Irish social life in London back in the day, along with Catholic parish clubs.


I'm from south county Dublin, where there's little of that going on.
The Cork in-laws would be well aquainted with it though.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Chouan said:


> Some good recipes for "Pig's bum and cabbage".
> https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/5843/boiled-bacon-with-cabbage-and-carrots
> https://www.europeancuisines.com/Irish-Boiled-Bacon-Pork-And-Cabbage-March-8-2009
> https://www.welovedonegal.com/bacon-and-cabbage.html
> ...


I checked out the recipes and they sound tasty, unlike the over-cooked versions I remember from the past. My apologies to all if the attempts at humor were annoying.

Gurdon


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Gurdon said:


> I checked out the recipes and they sound tasty, unlike the over-cooked versions I remember from the past. My apologies to all if the attempts at humor were annoying.
> 
> Gurdon


Not at all, or, rather, no more than usual .........


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