# Impending death of the English language



## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

Whilst browsing some shoes during the lunch hour today the young salesgirl commented favourably on my Alan McAfees.

Sensing a kindred spirit we had an amicable conversation about shoes in general and the subject of the number of pairs we each own came up. When I mentioned how many pairs I have her following statement completely surprised me. "Oh you are a shoe whore".

Where/why do people coin statements like that? I was that close to asking if one prostitutes oneself to buy shoes Let it pass of course but got me wondering. If you go about bare foot are you a shoe widow/widower?

This is the latest in a string of strange terminology I have come across.

Looks like the Queen has her work cut out for her.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

were you talking to a singaporean girl?


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

acidicboy said:


> were you talking to a singaporean girl?


Yes I was. Any reason for asking?


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

shoefetish said:


> Yes I was. Any reason for asking?


because i have read articles and discussions about the need for singapore to improve their school system's english curriculum for years. "singlish" is i believe what writers call it.


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## Patrick M Thayer (Dec 24, 2004)

While I don't necessarily defend this particular bit of slang, the language is constantly changing because of new expressions made up to colorfully (or colourfully, if you choose) describe some modern idea. I've recently become interested in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) and get from them an email with a "word of the day" -- interesting to learn about how usage of old words change and how new words get into the language.

A bit of trivia -- two Americans (one certifiably insane) were among the largest contributors to the original OED.


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

> because i have read articles and discussions about the need for singapore to improve their school system's english curriculum for years. "singlish" is i believe what writers call it.


Singlish is a quaint form similar to, say, cockney in UK. Fine at a local context but the translation is lost when applied at an internatonal level. This Singlish has "evolved" to its present state because either people can't be bothered to learn the language properly or find it difficult to do so.
The funny thing is, by and large, the Singlish speaking mass tend to be West bashers but have dyed hair (in almost all shades of brown) and fancy Western names???.




> While I don't necessarily defend this particular bit of slang, the language is constantly changing because of new expressions made up to colorfully (or colourfully, if you choose) describe some modern idea. I've recently become interested in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) and get from them an email with a "word of the day" -- interesting to learn about how usage of old words change and how new words get into the language.





> > The beauty of the English language is the way it has evolved over time. Its willingness to accomodate keeps it 'young' and relevant.
> > For that reason, to me, it's a living language.
> >
> > The usage of a term without knowing what it is is the worrying bit. I don't think the girl knew what she was saying - one hardly calls a potential customer or a stranger, if it comes to that, a whore.
> > ...


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

I don't fluently speak or understand a language other than English, though it seems like the language's main problem - which has resulted in so many variations and slang usage - is its silly rules.

Even many so-called "English experts" disagree on usuag these days and especially in areas of mechanics and when to use what.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

Question: Did you happen to mention during your conversation that you are known by the nickname "shoefetish" on an internet board?


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

I think it evolved this way. In the 1980s a woman was described as a "coke whore" when she would have sex with men who had cocaine they were willing to share, yet she would not think of selling her charms for money in order to buy cocaine herself. Thus, the distinction between a plain old whore and coke whore.

Now it's used in various ways, "attention whore," being the most common usage I see and hear. It means someone who will do virtually anything for attention, although the "whore" part has lost its sexual connotation. By "shoe whore" I doubt she meant you turn tricks in order to satiate your shoe addiction.


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## pendennis (Oct 6, 2005)

Although the definition in Webster's Ninth Edition defines a whore as a "woman who practices promiscuous sexual intercourse esp. for hire", the term has evolved to those who practice promiscuous behavior of many types without pay. The abbreviation "esp." leaves room for more liberal interpretation.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

hockeyinsider said:


> Even many so-called "English experts" disagree on usuag these days and especially in areas of mechanics and when to use what.


The MLA might think it's an expert on English, but it isn't.

Why can't people abide by the rules? Why should standards be abandoned on the mere premise that they are too confusing?

I appreciate the "confusion." An ability to form grammatical English sentences properly is a good measuring-stick of another's overall intelligence.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

No disrespect to the poster- I don disrespected you fool! But prescriptive grammar and descriptive grammar are two different measures in the dizzying world patois of english. The miracle is we can still pick up Beowulf- and not the wretched translation by Ireland's fair haired poet Seamas Heany ( stick to eucalyptus treess and the Provos lad) in it's written tongue and still understand the story. The beauty of Shakespear isn't the stories, which are repeated everyday on the Soap Operas, but the language, Old Will possessing an incredible vocabulary.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Some of you may be familiar with Conrad Black (now Lord Black of Crossharbour). Phenomenal vocuabulary and always a good read, although a bit pompous for his own good. Why the vocab? He admits to having read a dictionary cover-to-cover when he was a young man.


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## Jasper Delaney (Jul 26, 2006)

It ain't how you say it . . . but what you say, that matters.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

The Tower of Babel as told in the Bible reflects the multiple specialty languages spoken, including a dialect just for women ( has anything really changed?) and the impact it had on the amazed single language observers who turned it into this story. Is there a lesson? If a kid from South Central wants to attend Harvard Medical School she/he will learn to speak a codified form of prescriptive english to be taken seriously. Meanwhile, walking to class past drug dealers, mentally ill street people, rival gangs, police cruisers, Korean store owners, and utterly lost bed and furniture truck drivers that kid will mimic those ancient Babylonians. Thats only the verbal aspect. Non Verbal body language, how we smell and DRESS can make it things lots of fun.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Adding the suffix "whore" to denote "afficionado" has become endemic among under-thirties--it has absolutely no sexual or derogatory connotation in this context.

I think it's vulgar and annoying, but it's just how kids talk now. People are now saying things like "Oh, I'm a total X-box whore" when they mean, "I really enjoy playing X-box games." 

I hear it constantly from the college-age interns in my office. It's dumb but harmless.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

The rules might seem silly, or contradictory, and a few of them might be open to argument or interpretation. However without them there would be no standard for communication and things would be far worse. An imperfect set of grammatical rules is much better than no rules at all.

It reeminez mee uv thuh nooist atemt too simplifie Inglish speling soe thuh langwij is eezeer for peepul too lurn and soe wee can al unnerstan eech uther beter.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

Jasper Delaney said:


> It ain't how you say it . . . but what you say, that matters.


No, not really. Which sounds better?

At least soulwise, I would say that these are really quite trying times, in my opinion anyway.

or

These are the times that try men's souls.


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

I don't believe that it is a foreign language deficiency that inspired the unwelcome epithet. Young people worldwide are on the internet and soaking up poisonous pop-culture in various ways. There is barely a person under 40 in any country who doesn't seek to or already understand English. She knew what she was saying (the likelihood of a young Asian woman not knowing the definition of "whore" is infinitesimal--even if it is only being used as a metaphor). The flippant familiarity with which the young woman plied you is just a symptom of the cheapening of human life and the constant degradation of standards of civility.


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

I wouldn't exactly call English a foreign language in Singapore. Its the medium of instruction here. After all we started with colonial rule since Sir Stamford Raffles landed in 1819 

I agree I am sure she knows what whore means. My point was I don't think she knew what she was saying in the context of the statement (maybe I myself should have been clearer when posting).

On reflection, in the 60s and 70s, people of my age used words like hip, cool, with it, hang loose and so on. Must have upset/confused the older generation no end

To be fair she was rather pleasant and well mannered - just that her choice of words threw me.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Coolidge24 said:


> Why can't people abide by the rules? Why should standards be abandoned on the mere premise that they are too confusing?


The genius of the English language is its immense adaptability and mutability. At no point in its history has it stood unchanging for very long; and if it had, it would not have the beauty or the utility or the universality it does today.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

shoefetish said:


> On reflection, in the 60s and 70s, people of my age used words like hip, cool, with it, hang loose and so on. Must have upset/confused the older generation no end


English has been going to the dogs since the Angles and Saxons first invaded the island fifteen hundred years ago.


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

jcusey said:


> English has been going to the dogs since the Angles and Saxons first invaded the island fifteen hundred years ago.


Hence the phrase "mad dogs and englishmen"


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## The Wife (Feb 4, 2006)

Shoefetish, my post did not in any way suggest that English isn't spoken routinely in Singapore. My comment had to do with the young woman's unprofessional conduct: I am fed up with vulgar familiarity at every level of modern society.


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

The Wife said:


> Shoefetish, my post did not in any way suggest that English isn't spoken routinely in Singapore. My comment had to do with the young woman's unprofessional conduct: I am fed up with vulgar familiarity at every level of modern society.


Maybe its the way society has evolved. In the past there was a pecking order of sorts. That lead to certain conformities and conduct.

Today, for example, a salesperson may be/feel financially or educationally "superior" to the customer. That they may feel gives them carte blanche to behave in whatever manner they deem fit.

I say this because when we employ temp. staff during their varsity vacations the tendency for these staff to behave rudely towards the permanent staff is clearly seen. I have reprimanded some and the reply I get is "we are better educated so we don't have to take instructions from them". I dread to think how this people will behave when they graduate and go into employment.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

shoefetish said:


> ...I dread to think how this people will behave when they graduate and go into employment.


That's easy. Their self-oriented (obsessed?) attitudes and modern hiring practices will allow them to do anything to get ahead and they will soon be calling the shots and telling _you_ what to do. Of course, they'll flame out early, but not before causing much damage to Corporate _North-_America. (Not that suicidal decision-making is something big business tries too hard to avoid...)


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

cufflink44 said:


> No disrespect intended, sir, but this is rubbish.[...] I don't believe an attitude like that is a mark of intelligence.


You don't intend disrespect, but you believe my attitude reflects a lack of intelligence?

Perhaps, if you had a better grasp of the language, you might have just gone straight to the point instead of launching into politically correct BS about how you didn't intend to disrespect me, even though you clearly did.

Next time, just say "Coolidge, I don't believe an attitude like yours is a mark of intelligence"

And I will reply

"I don't care"

Thank you for reminding me once again not to post in the Sandbox.


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

Coolidge24 said:


> The MLA might think it's an expert on English, but it isn't.
> 
> Why can't people abide by the rules? Why should standards be abandoned on the mere premise that they are too confusing?


Because it's cheaper.

Cheaper always beats better.



> I appreciate the "confusion." An ability to form grammatical English sentences properly is a good measuring-stick of another's overall intelligence.


Beacuse we're not allowed to discriminated against the stupid, the uneducated or the ignorant.


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## Full Canvas (Feb 16, 2006)

shoefetish said:


> . . . Where/why do people coin statements like that? I was that close to asking if one prostitutes oneself to buy shoes Let it pass of course but got me wondering. If you go about bare foot are you a shoe widow/widower?
> 
> This is the latest in a string of strange terminology I have come across.
> 
> Looks like the Queen has her work cut out for her.


*Although your encounter with the sales girl affords us all with an obvious (and, in my opinion, sad) commentary regarding the mutation of the English language, another perspective (factually specific to America) and different reasons for the difficulties faced by the English language today are less obvious. A selected quotation is provided with a link to original article.*

"Pulling some facts together, we see that the proponents of a national language have a point. 800 newspapers are printed in a foreign tongue. Those represent periodicals that the average citizen can't read, periodicals that cater to people who can't be bothered to learn the rudimentary tenets of English to get along in our society. The problem is a bit deeper than just people reading papers printed in a different language, at least one foreign language paper is run by agitators responsible for a violent protest turned deadly. A bomb was used and it is hard, though the media won't do it, to call the incident anything other than terrorism. Is it too much to require all papers to at least have an English translation? 

Perhaps that is too much, after all free enterprise and so on. But what of the young immigrants, those that should be naturally bilingual and a true asset to America? Their chances of getting ahead are being willfully hindered. One might grudgingly expect . . ."



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