# Where Were You When...



## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Just a random thought on the 9/11 anniversary:

In my life there are three historical events for which I remember exactly where I was when they occurred:

The assassination attempt on President Reagan
The Challenger explosion
9/11
I was too young to remember Apollo 11 or MLK and RFK being killed. Are we wired to remember the unhappy things? There are certainly a number of happy historical events that have occurred over the same span of time (eg, US Olympic Hockey Gold in 1980, 1st space shuttle mission, Berlin Wall coming down) for which I have no clue as to where I was.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Just a random thought on the 9/11 anniversary:
> 
> In my life there are three historical events for which I remember exactly where I was when they occurred:
> 
> ...


Not to neglect the Columbia shuttle disaster which must surely rate as considerably more tragic than Hinkley's failed attempt on Ronnie?

We are capable of remembering all the significant events, regardless of emotional context, positive or negative.

The media, however, is much keener in promoting calamity than prosperity. The endless babble of the news, degrading one's ability to properly discern, is responsible for fixing the tragedies more prominently in our memory.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I was in a vocational program in Manhattan when 9/11 had happened.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Phone call from my mother woke me up; she called to tell me my sister was missing.

My sister had an interview scheduled that morning, across the street from the towers. I eventually was able to reach her by phone. (East coast lines were out, but cross country lines were working.) An earlier interview in mid-town had run late, so my sister was delayed in getting to the downtown appointment; she had to walk for a couple of hours to get home.

I will never forget.


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## TSWalker (Nov 2, 2011)

At work on 9/11 - I was the computer repairman at a retail store. It was a ghost town. We took a radio from the shelf to get news since all the web pages I tried to access from my dial-up connection in the back timed out. To my dying day, I will remember the lead cashier's words: "we are under attack".

Challenger is even more burned in, as I am a Floridian born and raised. I saw the shuttle explode with my naked eyes from the field at my elementary school. "Roger, go for throttle up"... another phrase permanently etched.

I do think that, as a species from an evolutionary standpoint, we are more wired to avoid pain than to seek pleasure, so the tragedies are more memorable than the triumphs. I am only a layman, so take that for what it's worth.

Sorry for the rambling post, but I came here to take my mind off this stuff, and unfortunately stumbled into this thread!


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

My condolences on this day to the American contributors in particular, although I always think of this as an attack on the wider international community as well.

I remember the day very well indeed. I was on holiday that day, and only learnt of the news several hours after the second plane struck. I had a university friend working in Manhattan then - he is a lawyer, and, although not working for a firm based in the Towers, could easily have been there in a meeting. It was some time before the trans-Atlantic phone service was restored and I could ascertain that he was okay.

I was back in Whitehall by the time the Guards played _The Star Spangled Banner_ on the court of Buckingham Palace. A tiny gesture of solidarity, but I was glad the Queen authorised this (throwing - quite rightly but also exceptionally - the protocol book out of the window).


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

I was watching it happen from across the Hudson, perched on the roof of the School of Architecture building in Newark. One of my professors had been on the engineering team that designed the towers. I still remember the shock on his face when the first tower actually went down, as he swore it was structurally impossible. It was definitely a day I'll never forget.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

sbdivemaster said:


> Phone call from my mother woke me up; she called to tell me my sister was missing.
> 
> My sister had an interview scheduled that morning, across the street from the towers. I eventually was able to reach her by phone. (East coast lines were out, but cross country lines were working.) An earlier interview in mid-town had run late, so my sister was delayed in getting to the downtown appointment; she had to walk for a couple of hours to get home.
> 
> I will never forget.


She was very lucky. Thank you for sharing.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Shaver said:


> Not to neglect the Columbia shuttle disaster which must surely rate as considerably more tragic than Hinkley's failed attempt on Ronnie?


Agreed, but I remember being in the Ft Knox PX watching the news unfold on TV when an angry man walked past and shouted the assasination attempt was the best thing that's ever happened to America. It's funny what we remember.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

TSWalker said:


> At work on 9/11 - I was the computer repairman at a retail store. It was a ghost town. We took a radio from the shelf to get news since all the web pages I tried to access from my dial-up connection in the back timed out. To my dying day, I will remember the lead cashier's words: "we are under attack".
> 
> Challenger is even more burned in, as I am a Floridian born and raised. I saw the shuttle explode with my naked eyes from the field at my elementary school. "Roger, go for throttle up"... another phrase permanently etched.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Balfour said:


> My condolences on this day to the American contributors in particular, although I always think of this as an attack on the wider international community as well.
> 
> I remember the day very well indeed. I was on holiday that day, and only learnt of the news several hours after the second plane struck. I had a university friend working in Manhattan then - he is a lawyer, and, although not working for a firm based in the Towers, could easily have been there in a meeting. It was some time before the trans-Atlantic phone service was restored and I could ascertain that he was okay.
> 
> I was back in Whitehall by the time the Guards played _The Star Spangled Banner_ on the court of Buckingham Palace. A tiny gesture of solidarity, but I was glad the Queen authorised this (throwing - quite rightly but also exceptionally - the protocol book out of the window).


Good stuff. I had forgotten about the playing of TSSB. It got plenty of press here in the US...and was much appreciated.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

The weird thing was the smell overpowering the city and I could smell it from afar, it was the stench of the towers and the corpses. It was on W.28th street where I could smell it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Indeed, the stench of disaster is often the most memorable of the sensory inputs (sight, sounds, touch, smell). You can close your eyes; you can cover your ears; you can wear gloves on your hands. but that smell is always there, seems largely un-alterable and sadly, it stays with you! Howard, I am so sorry that you and so many others had to experience that!


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I remember coming home from elementary school to find out Reagan had been shot. I remember the female reporter crying as she was detailing the event. It struck me as odd that she would let emotion cloud her ability to do her job. 
I was sitting in Algebra class in the eigth grade when news of the Challenger disaster was announced. We sat in very uncharacteristic complete silence and watched the coverage of television. One of the teachers in our school was a finalist for the teacher in space program before she lost out to Christa McAuliffe. I remember her being unconsolable at the news of the disaster.
On 9/11, I was driving down I-65 south of Birmingham,AL. The radio in my car had went out a few days before that day. My wife called and said that I should get to a television fast. I went into the WalMart in Prattville, AL. All of the employees and customers were watching the shelves of televisions all tuned to the same channel. You could have heard a pin drop as the second tower was hit. It was a surreal moment.

On a somewhat lighter note, does anyone remember where they were when O.J. Simpson and Al Cowlings led the police on a low-speed chase in the white Bronco?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Just a random thought on the 9/11 anniversary:


Here's mine;

https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/us-ambassador-killed-libya.html



> The embassy in Cairo published a statement online saying, "The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims -- as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. ... Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. *We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."*


You've got to be shitting me.

When was the last time the US firmly rejected the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others in any circumstance BESIDES when those religious beleifs have been Muslim??

Abuse the universal right of free speech??

What a freaking crock.

Makes me sick.

Oh, Sorry.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Here's mine;
> 
> https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/us-ambassador-killed-libya.html
> 
> ...


Totally understand where you're coming from. Hopefully come 11/6 we can address some current issues at the ballot box. But, in the meantime, please try to keep the language clean...(I was going to put a smiley face emoticon here...but I just couldn't pull the trigger).


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Howard said:


> *The weird thing was the smell overpowering the city and I could smell it from afar*, it was the stench of the towers and the corpses. It was on W.28th street where I could smell it.


I was in NYC three weeks after it happened, I remember it, a really strange stench, I've certainly never smelled anything like that since.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I appreciate that this thread is posted on the Interchange, with its unmoderated 'anything goes' policy. However, if possible, please show some respect for the victims of the World Trade Center tragedy by refraining from utilising the thread as a platform for reactionary politics and foul language.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Indeed, the stench of disaster is often the most memorable of the sensory inputs (sight, sounds, touch, smell). You can close your eyes; you can cover your ears; you can wear gloves on your hands. but that smell is always there, seems largely un-alterable and sadly, it stays with you! Howard, I am so sorry that you and so many others had to experience that!


It was far away but the smell was awful.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

MikeDT said:


> I was in NYC three weeks after it happened, I remember it, a really strange stench, I've certainly never smelled anything like that since.


It smelt like burnt rubber


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Shaver said:


> ....refraining from utilising the thread as a platform for reactionary politics and foul language.


I should not have let the reactionary politics of radical Islam inject itself into this thread topic even though they manage to murder 4 more Americans on this anniversary and apoligize that I have abused my universal right of free speech.

I have no animus towards the President in this matter I was actually upset with the idiotic statement from our Dept of State.

I was in the DC Metro area at the time. I drive past the new wall of the Pentagon twice a day to work.

I admire the restraint of the living victims of New York for I have none.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Here's mine;
> 
> https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/09/us-ambassador-killed-libya.html
> 
> ...


The actions (or lack of actions) by officials in Washington during these embassy attacks make President Obama look like Jimmy Carter the second.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I should not have let the reactionary politics of radical Islam inject itself into this thread topic even though they manage to murder 4 more Americans on this anniversary and apoligize that I have abused my universal right of free speech.
> 
> I have no animus towards the President in this matter I was actually upset with the idiotic statement from our Dept of State.
> 
> ...


I support free speech (as protected by the 1st amendment or otherwise) and reject censorship. Even still, we may always elect to exercise our good judgement - a new thread to further your particular debate, perhaps?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

blue suede shoes said:


> The actions (or lack of actions) by officials in Washington during these embassy attacks make President Obama look like Jimmy Carter the second.


Even I wouldn't go that far!!

I criticized the Left too much for their demonization of Bush for me to do the same to Obama on FOREIGN matters. Besides, I applaud his agressive terror killing campaign and for realizing that closing Gitmo and terror trials in New York City were bad ideas.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Shaver said:


> I support free speech (as protected by the 1st amendment or otherwise) and reject censorship. Even still, we may always elect to exercise our good judgement - a new thread to further your particular debate, perhaps?


I appreciate that.

I went back to the link I posted yesterday and it appears the LA Times has scrubbed the paragraph that I quoted from the artcle.

Curious isn't it?


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Howard said:


> It smelt like burnt rubber


Yeh, like that. I could smell it everywhere, even in a hotel on 40th St. This was first week of October 2001.

I'd already booked my NYC trip in July. I was working on some telephone job for BT in Bristol on the day, and someone came out out of their house and told me about the Twin Towers, and what had just happened. It was sort of like disbelief at first, until I saw it all on BBC TV a few hours later. I was unsure whether to cancel my NYC trip or not, but decided to go in the end, and is an experience that will stay with me for the rest of my life. The thing that most sticks in my mind, is all the thousands of pictures of missing people fixed to walls, lamp posts, bus stops, etc.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Even I wouldn't go that far!!
> 
> I criticized the Left too much for their demonization of Bush for me to do the same to Obama on FOREIGN matters. Besides, I applaud his agressive terror killing campaign and for realizing that closing Gitmo and terror trials in New York City were bad ideas.


I agree wiith your viewpoints. The demonization of Bush has to stop, and Obama should not be demonized in return. I applaud Obama's hardline campaign against terror and Al Queda. His views sure have changed a lot since he campaigned in 2008. However, you might agree with my above statement after you read the following article:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm confident errors have been made but I'm willing for the Lybia thing to settle down and collect all the facts. I'm encouraged that the people and people in charge there have said the right thing.

It's just our State Department in Cairo that said the wrong thing. That, we can and should criticize.

Meanwhile, the headlines do not follow up with our administration about any shortcomings, they only ask Obama what he thinks about what Romney said. 

Typical. 

After reading your article I have to ask; "Do you mean it's possible, POSSIBLE that this whole phony outrage isn't about some stupid cheap "movie" afterall??"

That's not what our media is telling us!!


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Blame the movie!!












New York Times


Anti-American Protests Over Film Expand to More Than a Dozen Countries

New York Times - ‎26 minutes ago‎ 











CAIRO - The violently anti-American rallies that have roiled the Islamic world over a video denigrating the Prophet Muhammad expanded on Friday to more than a dozen countries, with demonstrators storming the American Embassy in Tunisia in a deadly ...
Related

Reuters

Western embassies stormed in Sudan, Tunisia as anti-US protests spreadHaaretz

Featured:A clash of civilizations? Not so muchGlobalPost
From Egypt:In letter to NYTimes, Egypt Brotherhood's Shater voices sorrow for slain US ...Ahram Online
Live Updating:Live: Protests over anti-Islamic film across Middle East, north AfricaRTE.ie
Wikipedia:2012 U.S. diplomatic missions attacks



Google news is really out of control!!

I'm beginning to understand why much of the world doesn't understand that the US, unlike many of them, do not have a State controlled or run media.

But the message is so coordinated and one-sided, it's even got me wondering!!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> Yeh, like that. I could smell it everywhere, even in a hotel on 40th St. This was first week of October 2001.


I was in a vocational program 229th W.28th street


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

The thing I remember about Challenger was that I saw the news sheets for it on the way to work and 30 minutes later people were already cracking jokes about it. In particular one table rat (waiter) who kept coming into the kitchen to relay the latest joke , thankfully the Executive Chef told him in no uncertain terms to stay out of the kitchen. Very poor taste I have to admit.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Google news is really out of control!!
> 
> I'm beginning to understand why much of the world doesn't understand that the US, unlike many of them, do not have a State controlled or run media.


US news media is owned and controlled by Rupert Murdoch and Ted Turner, isn't it? Who may have their own agendas and views. I don't really trust Fox News or CNN to be any more unbiased than China Central TV and Xinhua. Fox News especially, comes across to me as being very pro-American and biased. Like the way Chinese state media is very biased and one-sided.

Normally I just look at the BBC, for what's going on in world. Independent of state control and not commercial. To me it's never pro-British or pro-American or pro-Chinese or pro-Republican or pro-Labour or pro-Communist or pro-Taliban or whatever.

Google News is an aggregator of many news sources, some of which probably are state owned and run.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

So ten days following a terror attack on our embassy and evolving excuses and apologies from the White House, the news of the day is Romneys browning for his Univision interview.

https://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univisio...ws-media-fire-makeup-artist/story?id=17290303

God help us all.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

MikeDT said:


> Normally I just look at the BBC, for what's going on in world. Independent of state control and not commercial. To me it's never pro-British or pro-American or pro-Chinese or pro-Republican or pro-Labour or pro-Communist or pro-Taliban or whatever.


The BBC is certainly not pro-British or pro-American - quite often I find it to be the reverse (although admittedly not in the nakedly partisan way some of the US networks are - it is a more nuanced undercurrent). I would dispute that it is not pro-Labour. And independent of state control? Have you forgotten how it's funded and who appoints its management?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

This is what we do with free speech abusers in the US of A!!



> Man Thought to Be Behind Anti-Muslim Film Is Arrested
> 
> LOS ANGELES - The man thought to have been behind the anti-Islam video that set off deadly protests across the Muslim world in recent weeks was arrested on Thursday for violating terms of his probation in a 2010 bank fraud case.


And after more than a fortnight, the NYT continues to cover for what is now accepted as a terror attack in Libya by blaming the idiotic movie.



> Mr. Nakoula has not spoken publicly since the trailer, parts of which were broadcast on Egyptian television, first set off a wave of rioting and attacks that led to the deaths of four Americans in Libya, including the ambassador.


https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/us/man-thought-to-be-behind-ani-muslim-film-arrested.html?_r=0


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## upthewazzu (Nov 3, 2011)

On 9/11, I was a sophomore in college. Since I am on the west coast, it was pretty early when it all happened. I was still sleeping, in fact. I don't remember what time it was, but my roommate woke me up saying, "I wouldn't normally do this, but you need to see this." I'll never forget those words. They cancelled classes the rest of the day and we all stayed home and watched the events unfold.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I remember my grandparents picked me up at school and we went to the grocery store. When we got home, their neighbor ran across the lawn to tell us that Reagan had been shot.

I remember my grandparents picked me up at school and we went to the grocery store. When we got home, their neighbor ran across the lawn to tell us that the Pope had been shot.

I was home the day of the Challenger explosion; I don't remember if I was sick or if it was a snow day in Philadelphia. I had watched the launch with my grandmother then went downstairs to play the piano. She must not have been watching the television, only listening to it, because she came down and said there had been a "major malfunction."

9/11 sticks in my mind because in some ways that memory was withheld from me. I was working for a major package delivery service in their accounting office. One person had a small radio at their desk and heard the initial story - that a small plane had hit one of the towers. Another co-worker had a brother who worked in one of the buildings and he was trying frantically to get him on the phone.

Our manager insisted that we continue working and made everyone turn off their radios. The intranet home page had a message instructing employees not to use the Internet to go to news sites. Finally, after lunch, after the towers fell, they turned on the radio.

So, I feel almost nothing. The videos are just that, videos. I didn't experience it with the rest of the world because my manager was more focused on her job than on the real world. (Contrast this with the Washington Redskins game on December 7, 1941 - no one knew anything until they left the stadium; in our case we knew something bad had happened and that we were being denied access to information.)


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

When Elvis died - I remember standing by the sitting room door and my parents and I seeing it on TV when I came in from school that day.


When Princess Diana died - I remember i was still awake in my summer house in Sweden listening to the radio and then suddenly hearing the very first reports of the accident on the BBC World Service.


When Olof Palme was assassinated - I was on night shift on mobile patrol out of Chelsea police station.


I have no idea where I was or what I was doing on 9/11.


On 7/7 I was at work monitoring events on the BBC.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I have no idea where I was or what I was doing on 9/11.
> 
> On 7/7 I was at work monitoring events on the BBC.


Striking.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Pentheos said:


> Striking.


What do you mean by that?


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> What do you mean by that?


That you don't know where you were on 9/11. Especially on its anniversary, but really also throughout the year, people often talk about how the transpiring events changed their day as well as their lives. Not having that day of all days indelibly etched in your memory is unusual.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Pentheos said:


> That you don't know where you were on 9/11. Especially on its anniversary, but really also throughout the year, people often talk about how the transpiring events changed their day as well as their lives. Not having that day of all days indelibly etched in your memory is unusual.


Agreed. This is, without question, the biggest 'shocking world event' (not to say, atrocity) in my memory.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Pentheos said:


> That you don't know where you were on 9/11. Especially on its anniversary, but really also throughout the year, people often talk about how the transpiring events changed their day as well as their lives. Not having that day of all days indelibly etched in your memory is unusual.


I don't think it's unusual at all, as it did not directly affect me. A terrible atrocity indeed, but around that time I was working on a humanitarian relief operations from Sweden for the flooding in August in Indonesa. So my mind was on my work. I don't think I even heard about 9/11 until several hours after it had happened.

But okay, let me put it this way, do you remember where you were on 17 december 1983?
No, and I don't expect you too. And I would appreciate if you could show the same consideration for other people who had other things to deal with on 9/11.

So on 17 December 1983 , I was at home grieving the loss of 3 police colleagues from my shift at my police station (Chelsea) blown up by the IRA Harrods bomb.

Talking of indelibly stamped on the memory, do you know where you were on the evening of 29 August 1975? I do , I was at home wathcing TV, while Captain Roger Philip Goad, GC, BEM tried to defuse a huge IRA bomb in a shop doorway in Kensington Church Street about 150 yards from my house. It blew up, he was killed, the windows in our house shook, one broke. The next day, the pavement and road were still covered in his blood. His head was found on the roof.

Do you know where you were on 18 November 1987. I do, I was at work on Met Pol. CLR (Central London police Reserve) to cover for the officers that attended the Kings Cross underground station fire, where 27 people perished and hundreds more were injured.

Do you know where you were on 20 April 1982? I do, 2 Rifle Flights of my field squadron had just travelled down from RAF Hullavington in Wiltshire to load our equipment onboard ship at Southampton and to wait in barracks on 6 hour standby to disembark for the Falklands...indelibly stamped!

The USA is not the centre of the world. The rest of the world carried on revolving when 9/11 happened & carried on dealing with the terrorism it had been dealing with for decades. I don't mean that too sound harsh or cold, it's just a fact.

Personally, in 3 different uniforms: military, security serivce and police I'd been fighting the IRA from 1980 to 1996. So I have plenty of serious incidents and bombings indelibly stamped on my mind.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Anyone who had been wondering about what was left behind at the U.S. embassy in Benghazi, Libya, could find at least a partial answer in the pages of The Washington Post last week.

No, the venerable newspaper didn't get its hands on some documents through some old-fashioned reportorial diligence. And it didn't just happen to have a super-secret source - like Deep Throat during the Watergate investigation - who was willing and able to dish to the paper.

Instead, a Post reporter, accompanied by an interpreter, simply walked into the ruined embassy and took a look around. Really.

Sensitive documents were lying around. Here. There. Everywhere.

This is an outrage. Our nation couldn't keep the embassy safe from attack on Sept. 11, when our ambassador, J. Christopher Stevens, and three other Americans were killed. Soon after that tragedy, CNN strolled into the sacked facility and took a gander at Stevens's diary.

Fully three weeks later, The Washington Post is perusing potentially sensitive documents scattered about the ransacked facility. Who knows what's already gone missing. Who knows what information might potentially aid those who would do harm to us or our allies?

You'd think that as September turned to October, our embassy could have been secured. You'd think that someone would have cared enough not to leave the place essentially open to anyone who wanted in.

https://www.masslive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/10/editorial_ransacked_libyan_emb.html

But the REAL issue is no funding for Big Bird!!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I was in Georgia when it happened and suddenly the next day the exercise area was visited by several Fema and DHS officers basically to speak to the US units present.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I was in Georgia when it happened and suddenly the next day the exercise area was visited by several Fema and DHS officers basically to speak to the US units present.


Did anyone wonder if the embassy was secured or did they just figure it wouldn't have been abandoned like I did??


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> or did they just figure it wouldn't have been abandoned like I did??


That was taken for granted of course. A bloody outrage is right!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Did anyone wonder if the embassy was secured or did they just figure it wouldn't have been abandoned like I did??


The outrage is understandable and certainly well justified, but why the surprise? Is this not what we would expect when amateurs/inmates are left to run the asylum? The Ambassador and his staff, as well as US interests in general, were victimized by absent and /or inept leadership as much as they were victims of the terrorists who carried out the attack.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

And all credit to the American troops, in the mess, in the field, and in their part of the camp I didn't hear a single "********" type comment.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> The Ambassador and his staff, as well as US interests in general, were victimized by absent and /or inept leadership as much as they were victims of the terrorists who carried out the attack.


I didn't believe that in 2001 and I don't believe that now.

However, the cover-up and complicity of the media is remarkable.

Mitt has to win just so the media will start doing it's job again!!


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I didn't believe that in 2001 and I don't believe that now.
> 
> However, the cover-up and complicity of the media is remarkable.
> 
> Mitt has to win just so the media will start doing it's job again!!


The medias job is to sell "airspace." Seems like they are doing a fine job of it.

You have to remember the fundamental rule about the Press. They don't work for US. They work for themselves. As long as that is true, their interests will be above our interests.

People don't want to "buy" the truth. They aren't willing to pay for it. However... a story with a small portion of the truth......


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Apatheticviews said:


> People don't want to "buy" the truth. They aren't willing to pay for it. However... a story with a small portion of the truth......


Exactly, good news and the truth don't sell!!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I don't think it's unusual at all, as it did not directly affect me. A terrible atrocity indeed, but around that time I was working on a humanitarian relief operations from Sweden for the flooding in August in Indonesa. So my mind was on my work. I don't think I even heard about 9/11 until several hours after it had happened.
> 
> But okay, let me put it this way, do you remember where you were on 17 december 1983?
> No, and I don't expect you too. And I would appreciate if you could show the same consideration for other people who had other things to deal with on 9/11.
> ...


Hello Earl,

a perspicacious comment.

England, it is sometimes barely remembered, endured a constant and heavy terrorist assailment for very many years - and this without taking recourse to austere infringement of civil liberty.

I recall when two police officers were executed at the end of my street upon haplessly encountering an active service unit. When the terrorists were pulled over for a minor driving offence they responded with a hail of automatic weapon fire.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Apatheticviews said:


> People don't want to "buy" the truth. They aren't willing to pay for it. However... a story with a small portion of the truth......


People LOVE intrigue and scandal, something that has been absent for the last 3+ years.

But gee, why look for something that doesn't exist??


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

State: never felt Libya attack due to film protestWASHINGTON (AP) - The State Department now says it never believed the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, was a film protest gone awry, giving congressional Republicans new fodder for criticizing the Obama administration's initial accounts of the assault.
The State Department's extraordinary break with other administration offices came in a department briefing Tuesday, where officials said "others" in the executive branch concluded initially that the protest was based, like others in the Middle East, on a film that ridiculed the Prophet Muhammad.
That was never the department's conclusion, a senior official told reporters.

https://entertainment.verizon.com/n...ass&action=1&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_NKNWU00L1_UNEWS

Oh, really??


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

The AP still hasn't gotten the memo!!

LOS ANGELES (AP) - A California man with many aliases who was behind an anti-Muslim film that sparked violence in the Middle East is expected to be asked by a judge Wednesday whether he violated his probation for a 2010 bank fraud conviction.
Federal prosecutors said Mark Basseley Youssef, 55, had eight probation violations, including lying to his probation officer and using aliases. If Youssef denies those allegations, a judge will then likely schedule an evidentiary hearing.
Youssef has been in a federal detention center since Sept. 28 after he was arrested for the probation violations and deemed a flight risk by a magistrate judge.
He went into hiding after a 14-minute trailer for the movie "Innocence of Muslims" was posted on YouTube. *Angry protests stoked by the film broke out in Egypt and Libya *and violence related to the film has spread, killing dozens. Enraged Muslims demanded punishment for Youssef, and a Pakistani cabinet minister has offered a $100,000 bounty to anyone who kills him.

https://entertainment.verizon.com/n...ass&action=5&lang=en&_LT=UNLC_NKNWU00L5_UNEWS

Just who is "abusing their free speech" now??


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

.....


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> .....


Pardon me Mr. Balfour, but I didn't quite catch that. :devil:


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Biden On Libya: We Did Not Know They Wanted More Security

BIDEN: The intelligence community told us that. As they learned more facts about exactly what happened, they changed their assessment. That's why there's also an investigation headed by a leading diplomat from the Reagan years, who is doing an investigation as to whether there were any lapses, what the lapses were, so that they will never happen again.

RADITZ: And they wanted more security there?

BIDEN: We weren't told they wanted more security&#8230; We did not know they wanted more security, and by the way, at the time, we were told exactly, *we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view. That's why I said we will get to the bottom of this. *You know, usually when there's a crisis we pull together as a nation, but as even before we knew what happened to the Ambassador, the Governor was holding a press conference. That's not Presidential leadership.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...e_did_not_know_they_wanted_more_security.html

Nobody is laughing now, eh JB??
​


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

So you say "check the transcript" actually provides clarity??

CNN anchor and debate moderator Candy Crowley joined CNN's panel after the debate to discuss a moment where she corrected Mitt Romney after he claimed that President Barack Obama had refused to characterize the attack in Libya an act of terror for 14 days. Crowley said that Romney's was "right" in that the Obama administration spent weeks refusing to say that the attack was terrorism, but she thought at the time that "he picked the wrong word." 

"I heard the president speak at the time. I, sort of, reread a lot of stuff about Libya because I knew we'd probably get a Libya question so I kind of wanted to be up on it," said Crowley. "I knew that the president had said, you know, these acts of terror won't stand. Or, whatever the whole quote was."

"Right after that I did turn around and say, but you're totally correct that they spent two weeks telling us this was about a tape and that that there was this riot outside the Benghazi consulate which there wasn't," Crowley added. 

"He was right in the main, I just think he picked the wrong word," Crowley concluded. *She went on to say that her instinct forced her to correct Romney even though his "thrust" was correct.*
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/candy-crowley-romney-right-that-obama-didnt-call-libya-terror-but-thought-he-picked-the-wrong-word/


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

WouldaShoulda said:


> *She went on to say that her instinct forced her to correct Romney even though his "thrust" was correct.*


I'm glad she cleared that up. Whew, for a moment there, I thought she was in the tank for the President.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

This way, she gets to poison the facts for the live viewing audience AND maintain her "journalistic integrity!!"

It was still refreshing for her to try to correct what she had wrought


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

WouldaShoulda said:


> This way, she gets to poison the facts for the live viewing audience AND maintain her "journalistic integrity!!"
> 
> It was still refreshing for her to try to correct what she had wrought


You're too kind to Ms Crowley.

What's amazing is that there is no wisdom behind her actions. She probably thinks that she was being fair when she corrected Romney (favoring the President) and then later in the same breath saying that he was "in the main" correct (favoring Romney). In essence, she gave each position equal weight...or as some would argue, she gave the President's position more weight since she came to his defense first. However, Romney's position on Libya was much stronger (built on 4 weeks of irrefutable contradictory and misleading statements from the Administration) and the President's position was built on a single chance word in a Rose Garden speech. For Ms Crowley to give each of these positions equal weight was unforgivable for someone of her supposed experience.


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## dba (Oct 22, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Personally, in 3 different uniforms: military, security service and police I'd been fighting the IRA from 1980 to 1996. So I have plenty of serious incidents and bombings indelibly stamped on my mind.


 Morning James,

We wore different uniforms on two different continents but the mission was essentially the same. Get home safely each night and try to bring home safely, as many others as you can. I've been to too many funerals for the ones that didn't come home safely.

Thank you for your service.

David


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> You're too kind to Ms Crowley.


Kindness is my forte!!

(CBS News) It was six weeks ago on Tuesday that terrorists attacked the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya.
Now, CBS News has obtained email alerts that were put out by the State Department as the attack unfolded. Four Americans were killed in the attack, including Ambassador Christopher Stevens.
These emails contain the earliest description so far of what happened at Benghazi the night of the attack. 
Read the emails (PDF)


At 4:05 p.m. Eastern time, on September 11, an alert from the State Department Operations Center was issued to a number government and intelligence agencies. Included were the White House Situation Room, the office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the FBI. 
"US Diplomatic Mission in Benghazi Under Attack" -- "approximately 20 armed people fired shots; explosions have been heard as well. Ambassador Stevens, who is currently in Benghazi, and four COM (Chief of Mission/embassy) personnel are in the compound safe haven." 
At 4:54 p.m., less than an hour later, another alert: "the firing... in Benghazi...has stopped...A response team is on site attempting to locate COM (embassy) personnel."
Then, at 6:07 p.m., State sent out another alert saying the embassy in Tripoli reported the Islamic military group "Ansar al-Sharia Claims Responsibilty for Benghazi Attack"... "on Facebook and Twitter and has called for an attack on Embassy Tripoli." 
The emails are just a few in what are likely a large number traded throughout the night. They are likely to become part of the ongoing political debate over whether the administration attempted to mislead in saying the assault was an outgrowth of a protest, rather than a planned attack by terrorists.

Finally!!

Some people just can not beleive that terrorists can and do act without any provocation besides not being one of them.

The President included.

So phony outrage about a stupid movie is blamed and the media covered for him.


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## wdrazek (May 29, 2013)

Assassination attempt on Reagan... don't recall.

Challenger disaster... in bed with a new romance after our first night together in Denver, CO. The fling was short lived.

9/11 At company headquarters outside Chicago. Heard the first news reports on radio, then watched it unfold on TV. The remarkable thing after walking home was a guy in my building saying that after today we will lose many of our freedoms. I was incensed at his lack of sensitivity to the victims. Looking back now it was the most truthful thing I heard all day.


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## Padme (Aug 18, 2009)

I think an insane man who had a thing for Jodie Foster did the assassination attempt on Reagan.
My husband and I were deciding to get out of bed or sleep in a bit more and heard what sounded like a dump truck or dirt hauler make a big banging noise at the end of our street where some work was being done. We got up to see who crashed into who, and discovered it was Challenger. As I had been looking out our window that morning at a beautiful day, they were exploding over us. We felt a little sick.
I was in the kitchen and my kids were watching TV, and my oldest told me a plane had flown into a building. I told him he was wrong, it must have flown by the building before it went down, thinking it was a small private plane. The news replayed again, and he told me I was wrong, so I went to watch and show him. Right about then, the 2nd plane went into the building and I had to sit down. The whole thing was replayed and I was dumbfounded. My husband called from work, and I began to realize I had just let my children see the whole thing several times over. We did continue to watch until they went to their rooms. It must have seen slightly unreal to all of us.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

dba said:


> Morning James,
> 
> We wore different uniforms on two different continents but the mission was essentially the same. Get home safely each night and try to bring home safely, as many others as you can. I've been to too many funerals for the ones that didn't come home safely.
> 
> ...


Thank you sir, likewise.


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## Joseph Peter (Mar 26, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Just a random thought on the 9/11 anniversary:
> 
> In my life there are three historical events for which I remember exactly where I was when they occurred:
> 
> ...


1) In class;
2) Watching it on tv; &
3) on the 22nd floor of the Richard J Daley Center, Judge Flanagan's chambers, where the Sheriff's Security detail promptly ordered us to evacuate and walk down 22 floors. Walked back to my office building where building security told everyone to evacuate and was shoe horned onto the Metra train because the Loop was being evacuated.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Elvis Presley's Death - Working at National Shirt Shops in Southland Mall In Memphis, TN.
John Lennon's Death - Working at Memphis Aero re-fueling aircraft.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

It's about freaking time!!

The article kindly omits the hysterics generated by Carney's unbelievable denial. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/01/world/email-suggests-white-house-strategy-on-benghazi.html?_r=0#

WASHINGTON - A newly released email shows that White House officials sought to shape the way Susan E. Rice, then the ambassador to the United Nations, discussed the Middle East chaos that was the context for the attack on the American diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012.
The email dated Sept. 14, 2012, from Benjamin J. Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser, to Ms. Rice was obtained by the conservative group Judicial Watch through a Freedom of Information Act request. The subject of the email was: "PREP CALL with Susan."
That email was sent ahead of Ms. Rice's appearance on several Sunday morning news talk programs three days after the attacks that resulted in the deaths of four Americans, including J. Christopher Stevens, the ambassador to Libya.
Conservative critics of President Obama have long contended that political considerations at the White House were the reason that Ms. Rice attributed the Benghazi attacks to spontaneous protests sparked by an anti-Muslim Internet video. Critics have said she downplayed the idea that the attacks were linked to terrorism because it would undermine the notion that Mr. Obama was winning the war on terror.
The email from Mr. Rhodes includes goals for Ms. Rice's appearances on the shows and advice on how to discuss the subject of the protests that were raging in Libya and at other American diplomatic posts in the Middle East.
Among the goals that Mr. Rhodes identified: "To underscore that these protests are rooted in an Internet video, and not a broader failure of policy." In a section called "Top-lines," Mr. Rhodes added: "Since we began to see protests in response to this Internet video, the president has directed the Administration to take a number of steps. His top priority has been the safety and security of all Americans serving abroad."
Earlier emails had documented the concern among White House and other administration officials about talking points produced by the Central Intelligence Agency about the Benghazi incident. The email sent by Mr. Rhodes and released on Wednesday had not been part of the previous batch of documents.
Jay Carney, the White House press secretary, dismissed the new email as irrelevant, saying that the subject of the advice from Mr. Rhodes in the email was not about Benghazi, but rather about the protests that were taking place across the Middle East at the time.
"This document, as I said, was explicitly not about Benghazi but about the general dynamic in the Arab, or in the Muslim world, at the time," Mr. Carney told reporters. "This was part of our effort to explain our views, both as a matter of policy and as a matter of what was happening on the ground with regards to the protests that were underway around the region."
Mr. Carney said the email from Mr. Rhodes was not included with the prior batch of documents because it was not directly about the Benghazi attack. But conservatives signaled they intend to use the new document as evidence that Ms. Rice's appearances on the talk shows were guided by political, not intelligence, considerations.


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