# US Debt Clock site



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Are you signed up for Automatic Bill Pay yet? Don't worry; you will! :devil:

https://www.usdebtclock.org/


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*Kewl site*

Brilliant site.
Love that they use the term 'fiat currency,' since the dollar is backed only by blind faith (and we all saw how that worked for the real estate market). If Americans were less ignorant I could discuss fiat currency without them interrupting to mention some Spyder or X1/9.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> Brilliant site.
> Love that they use the term 'fiat currency,' since the dollar is backed only by blind faith (and we all saw how that worked for the real estate market). *If Americans were less ignorant I could discuss fiat currency without them interrupting to mention some Spyder or X1/9*.


LOL! :aportnoy:


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Why are the numbers going so fast?


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Howard said:


> Why are the numbers going so fast?


_Something_ must be broken.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Aye-up, seems it's been broken for quite sometime. It's called the US Congress!


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Aye-up, seems it's been broken for quite sometime. It's called the US Congress!


"Sarah Palin made me say it!" :devil:


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## nick.mccann (May 3, 2009)

Once we lose reserve currency status and cannot borrow large amounts from other nations and the Fed's quantitative easing programs end in disaster we will be forced to massively downsize our government. Also the trade deficit then will have to decrease, we won't be able for much longer to send paper overseas and get tangible goods in return. We'll be forced to export real goods to import.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

nick.mccann said:


> Once we lose reserve currency status and cannot borrow large amounts from other nations and the Fed's quantitative easing programs end in disaster we will be forced to massively downsize our government. Also the trade deficit then will have to decrease, we won't be able for much longer to send paper overseas and get tangible goods in return. We'll be forced to export real goods to import.


Which currency do you think is ready to be the next reserve currency?


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> Brilliant site.
> Love that they use the term 'fiat currency,' *since the dollar is backed only by blind faith* (and we all saw how that worked for the real estate market). If Americans were less ignorant I could discuss fiat currency without them interrupting to mention some Spyder or X1/9.


It's not backed by faith.

The dollar is backed by future tax collection.

"Future tax collection" is a nice, polite euphemism for "taking your money," which is another nice, polite euphemism for "taking your productivity."

When the U.S. government goes into debt, it is promising the creditor a piece of YOU. They are selling YOU off, a piece at a time.


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## nick.mccann (May 3, 2009)

ksinc said:


> Which currency do you think is ready to be the next reserve currency?


I don't think one currency will take its place but a basket of currencies and gold. The Yen, Yuan, Euro and Gold will probably be the biggest in the basket, maybe the Australian dollar.

What do you think will?


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

As I watched the numbers grow, I felt an overwhelming sense of sadness---but not because of Obama, or Bush (I or II), or Clinton, or anyone whom I could blame for the overspending---for all of us. It was like watching one's future being sucked into an abyss, a world where the US is no longer dominant, a world in which foreign powers can dictate how we Americans can live our lives, a world less stable than it is now.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

We should just make the Forbes 400 pay it off. Problem solved.

In other news, I don't think a trade deficit is necessarily a problem - it simply means we import more goods than we export.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

nick.mccann said:


> I don't think one currency will take its place but a basket of currencies and gold. The Yen, Yuan, Euro and Gold will probably be the biggest in the basket, maybe the Australian dollar.
> 
> What do you think will?


I don't see anything yet that can replace it. Just looking at the transactional volumes of forex; it seems improbable in the short term.

I think the Euro is the #1 Candidate, but it still would have to triple it's capacity. I just don't see them being able to circulate that much currency.

I think probably something in the special drawing rights area will make reserve currency status less relevant; which are, as you indicated, "baskets."

It will go out with a whimper; not a bang? I dunno.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

ksinc said:


> I don't see anything yet that can replace it. Just looking at the transactional volumes of forex; it seems improbable in the short term.
> 
> I think the Euro is the #1 Candidate, but it still would have to triple it's capacity. I just don't see them being able to circulate that much currency.
> 
> ...


I've read articles speculating that the Euro will not hold up because countries like Spain want to print more money to pay their debt. Other countries such as Germany fear inflation and refuse to allow additional money to be printed.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

brokencycle said:


> I've read articles speculating that the Euro will not hold up because countries like Spain want to print more money to pay their debt. Other countries such as Germany fear inflation and refuse to allow additional money to be printed.


Now that we've destroyed the fiat game for now ...

First one to go back to gold wins? :devil:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Could we base our currency on Cubic Zirconias. Makes as much sense than the present standard(?)!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> Aye-up, seems it's been broken for quite sometime. It's called the US Congress!


So you think The US Congress has something to do with it?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Howard said:


> Why are the numbers going so fast?


Good thing it's digital.

If the debt clock had hands, it would take off!!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Howard said:


> So you think The US Congress has something to do with it?


They have been bought, paid for and are controlled by personal greed and special interest groups...and it shows, sadly!


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## nick.mccann (May 3, 2009)

brokencycle said:


> I've read articles speculating that the Euro will not hold up because countries like Spain want to print more money to pay their debt. Other countries such as Germany fear inflation and refuse to allow additional money to be printed.


I don't think anything will replace it in the near future, it'll take 10 years or more. But there is a large movement to get away from the dollar, it's a long process.

The dollar is being used in carry trades, so it's still strong but weakening. Do you watch the dollar index? We it closed last night at another low for the year.


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## agnash (Jul 24, 2006)

Debt ratio of 1.43. I wonder if we can get a bailout?

Everyone wants out of the dollar, but they have to a) find something else that is safer, and b) not lose the value of the dollar investment before getting out. If everyone who wanted out got out imediately, then the value would plummet. 

For the future, I believe there will be a basket of currencies combined with gold to provide long-term stability. Hopefully a lesson has been learned, that even the most seemingly stable of countries is never more than a recession away from inflationary currency policy that threatens the value of a debt investment.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

agnash said:


> Debt ratio of 1.43. I wonder if we can get a bailout?
> 
> Everyone wants out of the dollar, but they have to a) *find something else that is safer*, and b) not lose the value of the dollar investment before getting out. If everyone who wanted out got out imediately, then the value would plummet.
> 
> For the future, I believe there will be a basket of currencies combined with gold to provide long-term stability. Hopefully a lesson has been learned, that even the most seemingly stable of countries is never more than a recession away from inflationary currency policy that threatens the value of a debt investment.


Very true. And it's not like gold and silver are beyond the reach of government manipulation or collusion either.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Good thing it's digital.
> 
> If the debt clock had hands, it would take off!!


It's sort of like an atomical clock.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Howard said:


> It's sort of like an atomical clock.


Thats' nothing! You should see my Wife's Chase account! :devil:


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

ksinc said:


> Thats' nothing! You should see my Wife's Chase account! :devil:


Would you like to subsidize my Chase account too? :icon_smile_wink:


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

brokencycle said:


> Would you like to subsidize my Chase account too? :icon_smile_wink:


You wouldn't like the terms.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

ksinc said:


> You wouldn't like the terms.


I have a lot of paper, and I can print more.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

ksinc said:


> Thats' nothing! You should see my Wife's Chase account! :devil:


You should see my Checking Account.


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## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

agnash said:


> Debt ratio of 1.43. I wonder if we can get a bailout?
> 
> Everyone wants out of the dollar, but they have to a) find something else that is safer, and b) not lose the value of the dollar investment before getting out. If everyone who wanted out got out imediately, then the value would plummet.
> 
> For the future, I believe there will be a basket of currencies combined with gold to provide long-term stability. Hopefully a lesson has been learned, that even the most seemingly stable of countries is never more than a recession away from inflationary currency policy that threatens the value of a debt investment.


The real lesson should be, no country is safe from corrupt obtuse politicians who seek to unhinge a nations currency so as to turn its citizens into ATM's and slaves to banks. THAT'S the real lesson we should learn.

In the future it is likely there will be a "basket" of currency's to help keep this kind of thing from happening again. I don't think it will take a decade to do it. Our economy is teetering on the brink and the rest of the world is simply waiting for us to go down. Let's face it, while we've been busy playing with ourselves China has been busy investing in developing countries and making new markets. It's also been busy diversifying itself out of dollars by using them to buy real assets all over the world.

Fiat money lasts on average 36-42 years. We're on year 38...


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## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

ksinc said:


> Now that we've destroyed the fiat game for now ...
> 
> First one to go back to gold wins? :devil:


What about real-estate? If it was good enough for the burgeoning 3rd Reich, why not us. The government already owns 80% of the country anyway and the rest of it is just "loaned" out. :devil:


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

Nicesuit said:


> What about real-estate? If it was good enough for the burgeoning 3rd Reich, why not us. The government already owns 80% of the country anyway and the rest of it is just "loaned" out. :devil:


well we started down that 3rd reich road a while ago with enhanced interrogation techniques, or is it khmir rouge techniques, if the government can do rendition and send people to foreign lands to secret prisons then owning 80% of the country is what we deserve


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## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

young guy said:


> well we started down that 3rd reich road a while ago with enhanced interrogation techniques, or is it khmir rouge techniques, if the government can do rendition and send people to foreign lands to secret prisons then owning 80% of the country is what we deserve


Tell us all what you know about the Khmer Rouge, enlighten us with a compare and contrast thesis with the US government, could you do that for us please?

As far as what we deserve goes, you couldn't be more right. We've brought this upon ourselves because we've allowed fools and tyrants to rule our country while we as a people lived our lives with our heads in our rectum. Hopefully that is changing and Marxist dirt bags will no longer find their way into the White House, to our national shame.


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

Nicesuit said:


> Tell us all what you know about the Khmer Rouge, enlighten us with a compare and contrast thesis with the US government, could you do that for us please?
> 
> As far as what we deserve goes, you couldn't be more right. We've brought this upon ourselves because we've allowed fools and tyrants to rule our country while we as a people lived our lives with our heads in our rectum. Hopefully that is changing and Marxist dirt bags will no longer find their way into the White House, to our national shame.


lets see, the khmer rouge tortured people by water boarding them, but when we water board its not torture, yeah that do as i say not do as i do works well every time.

we brought this upon ourselves in part by buying cheap chinese goods instead of american made goods and using walmart to send all out money to china, started al long time before Obama became president, if the middle class ceases to exist it will be in large part our own doing not the governments

oh and explain to me how Ws enhanced interogation is different than the nazi's Verschärfte Vernehmung


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

young guy said:


> oh and explain to me how Ws enhanced interogation is different than the nazi's Verschärfte Vernehmung


Waterboarding was used against three co-conspirators of 9/11.

What were the Norwegian prisoners accused of??


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Waterboarding was used against three co-conspirators of 9/11.
> 
> What were the Norwegian prisoners accused of??


Oh i see, so it becomes torture only if we do it a lot? whats the number then when it changes, if we did it 10 times would it be torture, a 100, what?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Water-boarding three co conspirators in the 9-11 terrorist attack on this Nation hardly compares to the repeated acts of genocide attributed to the Khmer Rouge. Perhaps that school young guy attends could teach him to spell Khmer Rouge?


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Water-boarding three co conspirators in the 9-11 terrorist attack on this Nation hardly compares to the repeated acts of genocide attributed to the Khmer Rouge. Perhaps that school young guy attends could teach him to spell Khmer Rouge?


i never meant to imply that we are as bad as the khmer rouge, but explain to me the difference between their water boarding being torture and our water boarding not being torture


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

young guy said:


> i never meant to imply that we are as bad as the khmer rouge, but explain to me the difference between their water boarding being torture and our water boarding not being torture


Having spent 31 years wearing the uniform of our Nations military and with three of my personal friends having endured years of "real" torture at the hands of the North Vietnamese, I am (in my gut) opposed to torture, period. Having said that, you may be assured that water-boarding is in the low end of the scale, when it comes to the relative level of barbarity in the various torture techniques that have been applied to our Nations soldiers. There is a good book, published a few years back, entitled The Fallen, that addresses Japanese treatment of American airman who had been shot down on bombing raids against the Japanese homeland in WWII. They not only tortured them, often to the point of death, and performed experimental medical procedures, universally resulting in the POW's death, the Japanese medical staff also dined on body parts of the murdered American airmen. War is not humane, it never has been and it never will be. Traditionally, it brings out the very, very best and the very, very worst in it's participants!

Real life isn't pretty nor is it always pleasant. You really need to get out and get some real life experience Sonny! :teacha:


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

eagle, i respect you alot and thank you for your service. waterboarding may be on the low end - i will trust you on this as you surely know more than I do. 

but is it still torture? 

should i be proud that my government and my then vice president advocated it? in 1968 two US servicemen were court martialed and sent to prison for waterboarding prisoners in Viet Nam. We condemn the Khmer rouge for among other things - waterboarding. 

and yet even though in the past we failed we tried to correct ourselves by being more fair and just - why not now? why do we low-end water board torture people (even only three) and yet think our acts are somehow different than when others we've condemned have done the same thing


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Very well said young guy. We may not be proud of all that She does (I know I am not) but, regardless of her ills, love your Country and do all within your power to heal Her. Make us better for your presence. I sincerely wish our elected officials, of all political parties, would follow that path!


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Very well said young guy. We may not be proud of all that She does (I know I am not) but, regardless of her ills, love your Country and do all within your power to heal Her. Make us better for your presence. I sincerely wish our elected officials, of all political parties, would follow that path!


thank you eagle,

i wish some on tv and radio would follow that path too, Rush and Keith both make me want to cry sometimes, i just want to scream WE're all in the same boat people - even if we all won't row in the same direction we dont have to bash each other over the head with the oars


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

young guy said:


> thank you eagle,
> 
> i wish some on tv and radio would follow that path too, Rush and Keith both make me want to cry sometimes, i just want to scream WE're all in the same boat people - even if we all won't row in the same direction we dont have to bash each other over the head with the oars


The first step to understanding what's going on is to turn off your TV and radio, and do your own homework.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

young guy said:


> eagle, i respect you alot and thank you for your service. waterboarding may be on the low end - i will trust you on this as you surely know more than I do.
> 
> but is it still torture?
> 
> ...


Yes; it's torture.

It would be nice to live in a world where occasionally, even with the safeguards and limitations imposed (no one was tortured to death or mutilated), we never had to beat the crap out of some perp to get information to save innocent American lives.

When we do live in that happy peaceful world, I don't think you will see torture on the table as a weapon - even a weapon of last resort. Just like Nukes or any other horrible thing ... Ask yourself: Is carpet bombing more or less moral than waterboarding a specific individual? Have you looked at napalm? What about economic sanctions on an entire country that do not discriminate between the guilty and the innocent; the young and the old; the privileged and the sick & oppressed?

There are a lot worse things in the world than waterboarding. Waterboading is perhaps more personal; and so it bothers many of us more. I think you will find some of those fighting for us everyday see the personal side of all the other weapons we use, as well as the collateral damage, and think that the 1:1 personal nature of waterboarding might be preferable. At least that is the impression I get from speaking to them. They see some horrible things everyday.

We don't waterboard children, but we kill quite a few from 10,000 feet.

In the mean time should we let them kill us all while we refuse to use certain means of defending ourselves? If death and violence against other human beings are not justifiable under any circumstances, we should have suffered in 1776 as well.

Just my opinion.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

FrankDC said:


> *The first step* to understanding what's going on is to turn off your TV and radio, and *do your own homework*.


I love you, man! :icon_smile_big:


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

ksinc said:


> Yes; it's torture.
> 
> In the mean time should we let them kill us all while we refuse to use certain means of defending ourselves? If death and violence against other human beings are not justifiable under any circumstances, we should have suffered in 1776 as well.
> 
> Just my opinion.


winston churchill in the midst of the battle of britian refused the let the british army torture germen agents to get information, even as the bombs were dropping. death and violence are sometimes necessary but if you believe in torture during the bad times you may as well say you approve of it in the good times, at least then the percentage of hypocracy goes down. if you dont like the law change it, if torture was bad then but good now just have the balls to say so.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

can this clock go any slower?


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

young guy said:


> winston churchill in the midst of the battle of britian refused the let the british army torture germen agents to get information, even as the bombs were dropping. death and violence are sometimes necessary but if you believe in torture during the bad times you may as well say you approve of it in the good times, at least then the percentage of hypocracy goes down. *if you dont like the law change it, if torture was bad then but good now just have the balls to say so*.


I've never lived under the laws of Winston Churchill.

I am the only person that I know of here that has admitted with candidness and clarity both that Yes; waterboarding is torture and Yes; I approve of that use of torture as a weapon of last resort as long as Terrorists are trying to kill my fellow Americans.

I cannot speak to the nuances of torturing uniformed German soldiers, but know enough to be aware there is some 'red tape' there and reciprocity involved. As the Terrorists attack and kill innocent civilians intentionally I think your point is moot. I will leave that to military people to discuss.

If you think my biggest problem in life is the lack of balls to state what I think is good or bad; you have reversed the diagnosis.

I've been called a lot of things in my life (most of them true) lacking in that area is not one of them.


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

ksinc said:


> I've never lived under the laws of Winston Churchill.
> 
> I am the only person that I know of here that has admitted with candidness and clarity both that Yes; waterboarding is torture and Yes; I approve of that use of torture as a weapon of last resort as long as Terrorists are trying to kill my fellow Americans.
> 
> ...


sorry i meant you plural as in everyone, yes you are one of the only people who admits it is torture and approve its use, almost no one else has which is why i kept stressing the point, the former administration used it but wouldnt talk about it, the new york times will call it torture is some one else doe it but not us. i admire you for you honesty with this at least and i apologize that i was not more clear


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

young guy said:


> sorry i meant you plural as in everyone, yes you are one of the only people who admits it is torture and approve its use, almost no one else has which is why i kept stressing the point, the former administration used it but wouldnt talk about it, the new york times will call it torture is some one else doe it but not us. i admire you for you honesty with this at least and i apologize that i was not more clear


Ah! I see what you mean now .... Thanks! :icon_smile_big:


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