# Cary Grant has worn them. David Bechham, Jeremy Piven and Ashton Kutcher wear them. Isn't it time



## JosephM (Dec 17, 2008)

JM


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## rmcnabb (Feb 25, 2009)

Should they be worn high and tight (like Cary) or low and loose (like Ashton)? I think the former looks much better.

They're gorgeous - but they've been made fun of so many times that it seems like noone can take them seriously. I love them, and still the first thing that pops into my head is Ted Knight as Judge Smails from "Caddyshack". It's really unfair, because they are a winning item on every count. Especially where I live, they just aren't understood well. 

They'll come back into full vogue when fedoras do.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

While the first two images are compelling arguments, I'm afraid the last three aren't at all. If they had actually done something with their hair they'd have a better chance at looking debonair instead of careless.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

I already wear them, but up higher like the Grant, not lower like the modern slouches wallowing in vague attempts at individuality.


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## ToryBoy (Oct 13, 2008)

I find if Beckhams wear them (whatever the garment or accessory), it puts me off. As Jovan mentioned, the pictures shown are not the best base for a compelling argument.


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## JosephM (Dec 17, 2008)

Jovan said:


> While the first two images are compelling arguments, I'm afraid the last three aren't at all. If they had actually done something with their hair they'd have a better chance at looking debonair instead of careless.





ToryBoy said:


> I find if Beckhams wear them (whatever the garment or accessory), it puts me off. As Jovan mentioned, the pictures shown are not the best base for a compelling argument.


My intent was to dispel the argument that day cravats were not meant for today's younger gentleman, but I certainly see where it may have misfired.

JM


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I think it would be nice if they didn't, but IMO ascots teeter too dangerously close to the edge of "costume." 

That said, I own one (a wine with ivory polka dots) and plan to wear it if I live long enough to become one of those crusty old guys with a real GTH attitude.

And yes, I agree that the flaccid, half-mast versions sported by Mr. Posh Spice and Demi's boy toy look slovenly. If you're gonna do this, at the very least try to do it up right like Cary G, fer cryin' out loud.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

In the last three pictures they look as though they are part of a costume.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You didn't misfire, it's just that a well groomed coif goes better with the more mature, sophisticated cravat from my point of view (though I'm not PERSONALLY in the habit of wearing them... yet). It doesn't have to be from a past decade like Cary's, but it's possible to look clean cut yet modern AND timeless at the same time. A side part will never go out of style.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I have to say that everyone in the above pictures looks horrible in an ascot _except_ Cary Grant.


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## JosephM (Dec 17, 2008)

Mannix said:


> I have to say that everyone in the above pictures looks horrible in an ascot _except_ Cary Grant.


Mannix, I searched the internet _long and hard_, but unfortunately could not find a picture of Sean Connery or Roger Moore in a day cravat...

JM


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

JosephM said:


> Mannix, I searched the internet _long and hard_, but unfortunately could not find a picture of Sean Connery or Roger Moore in a day cravat...
> 
> JM


I'm trying to think if I have one in the archives...have to take a look see. I believe I remember seeing Sean Connery in one, but not Roger Moore.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

The first thing I noticed from your pics are that Mr. Grant is wearing one for a spin in a convertible sports car during the day, I believe. The other clowns are wearing them to semi formal or other dressy night time occasions. Bechham in particular really looks literally like a clown, sans makeup. I know that is harsh, but I think he can take the criticism. Ashton would look alright if he wore his higher, but clearly what appears to be his mom (yes, I know) has dressed him poorly. Of course the last three are entertainers, so are permitted some leeway. Mr. Grant, on the other hand, was portraying a well dressed gentlemen in a movie during a more refined era. 

I could see wearing one with a nice tweed jacket under certain, rare, daytime circumstances. Of course I don't even own a tweed jacket yet but I am trying to start upgrading.


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## JosephM (Dec 17, 2008)

Thank you for a most insightful post, J.Marko.



JM


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## Portly_polar_bear (Oct 15, 2008)

It's supposed to be a very relaxed form of dress -- seeing someone who's gone to all the trouble of finding an evening-wear version so that they can look different looks just awful. Smacks of trying too hard.


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## nicksull (Sep 1, 2005)

Cary Grant is a good argument for. The others are an argument against. 
I think they show that it can very quickly look a little try hard. In this day and age i mean.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

In a word, no.

Or, to be a bit more explicit, anything that twit Ashton Kutcher does is a stronger argument to do the opposite than to emulate him.


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## Eljo'sTrent (Jun 23, 2006)

*No way....*

No. Snobby, affected, wrong century, trying too hard...


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## JosephM (Dec 17, 2008)

jackmccullough said:


> In a word, no.
> 
> Or, to be a bit more explicit, anything that twit Ashton Kutcher does is a stronger argument to do the opposite than to emulate him.


That "twit" Ashton Kutcher? Really, jack! And after all the _nice things_ Mr. Kutcher has said about you...

JM

PROBABLE GHOSTNICS SHOULD PROBABLY NOT DRAW THIS KIND OF ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES. IF YOU WANT TO TROLL, YOU SHOULD BE A GOOD TROLL. - - -

forsbergacct2000


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

No it is not: They suit a certain style but not everyone has a wish to subscribe to it.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> In a word, no.
> 
> Or, to be a bit more explicit, anything that twit Ashton Kutcher does is a stronger argument to do the opposite than to emulate him.


Even though Ashton wears pants I will continue to wear mine and all may say what they will(Harumph!)


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*my eBay watchlist continues to disappoint*

The market fails us more than individual cowardice. I know several brick & mortar stores that stock great bow ties and pocket squares, but have yet to see an ascot. I'm not finding the paisleys and foulards I want on the interwebs either.
I'd own a couple if I was running across them at Marshalls, or even Off 5th, but this is not the case. Less chance of dropping $80+ at Brooks or J. Press, but I'd consider it. 
I'm wearing a Mickey Mouse watch, so 'costume' accusations don't faze me. Also, I'll put more faith in the Jonas Brothers to revive ascots than Beckham or Piven.


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## glowell222 (Apr 20, 2009)

*Isn't it time for you to consider trying one on?*

November. Foxtrot. Whisky.


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## Mark L. (Feb 23, 2009)

Yeah, in his time and place, Cary Grant was a dapper fellow. But that time and place is not now and not where I live.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

*And Flanderian.*

But heaven preserve me from being considered in the same thought as Bechham, Piven or Kutcher.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

JosephM said:


> That "twit" Ashton Kutcher?


Yeah, don't disparage twits! ic12337:


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## RebelLaw (Apr 10, 2009)

Aston Kutcher is the last person that I would emulate in anything in life, this includes fashion.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

RebelLaw said:


> Aston Kutcher is the last person that I would emulate in anything in life, this includes fashion.


Better stop wearing pants, then.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

PJC in NoVa said:


> crusty old guys with a real GTH attitude.


I'm a crusty old guy, but am uncertain what a GTH attitude might be, though I probably possess it.

They're wonderful! Learned from Will at A Suitable Wardrobe, I'd been wearing them wrong all my life. (I got an early start.) As seen in photos, I'd been wearing the collar button, and the second button open. But the thing about ascots is that they eventually will ride lower and askew. With the second button undone, this looks very poor. But with it done up, it helps the ascot remain in place better, and looks fine. Just a nice colorful bit of silk hiding the base of my ugly old neck!


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> I'm a crusty old guy, but am uncertain what a GTH attitude might be, though I probably possess it.


GTH=get thee unto the nether regions


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

The Ascot is the most underestimated item in menswear and perfectly relevant today.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

David Reeves said:


> The Ascot is the most underestimated item in menswear and perfectly relevant today.


I am reassured. Thank you.


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

I just want to add that Ashton Kutcher is a tool.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Eljo'sTrent said:


> No. Snobby


A perfect reason to wear one. As casual dress of course.


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

Mark L. said:


> Yeah, in his time and place, Cary Grant was a dapper fellow. But that time and place is not now and not where I live.


Cary Grant was, is and always will be the epitome of style. I understand that some people in your area and in mine have no clue when it comes to style and how to dress but we all could take lessons from Mr. Grant regardless of the time or place. Even today, whenever I have questions about how to wear something or should I wear something, I ask myself, "What would Cary Grant do?"

In regard to the ascot, I have never worn one, but if I did, it definitely would be worn like Cary's. The other three look just like the typical "stars" of today who also have no clue when it comes to style and how to dress. The only actor in Hollywood today that even comes close to the style of Grant might be....might be, I say, is (as has been pictured in this thread) George Clooney.

Danny


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I always want to tie one one, but feel it looks way too affected.

As my grandfather got older, and his health deteriorated, he started wearing ascots when the situation was warranted (in part I think because ties became uncomfortable).

I guess that's something to look forward to in old age.


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## JordanH. (Jul 31, 2008)

glad this discussion came up! this past week, two ascots and a bow tie came for me. one ascot, however, disappoints me because it looks like an ascot on one end and on the other, it has a loop. i don't know what for, if someone does, get back to me please. anyway, the ascot that is normal is a soft wine color with these....things that....ummm.....pictures will be better....









i like it. i just dont know what to wear with it. but, yes, i like them and i think i will like to wear them.


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## weckl (Jun 28, 2003)

Theoretically, I'm sure some men could pull it off, but I simply can't imagine a situation in which I'd wear one without coming off as laughably Thurston Howell-esque. 

If I were driving an old Ferrari around Newport or Delaware, it would be even more comically attention-seeking: "Look at me! I'm rich!" Afraid to say I think the ascot is a thing of the past. It just carries too much baggage.


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## Mr. Tweed (Apr 9, 2009)

*Defending the day cravat*

Dear all,
This topic always seems to get lots of attention, especially from the cravat antagonists! Although most agree it can look stunning, not many think they can pull it off without looking overly snobbish or outdated. 

The day cravat, is in my opinion, the perfect, although slightly eccentric, tie substitute for informal settings. It adds colour to your outfit and hides your hairy chest when wearing an open shirt. It stops cool air from getting inside your shirt, and is more comfortable to wear than a tie.

The key to success is tying it right. And do avoid large spread collars, as it can look a bit strange. For a less play-boyish look keep the cravat tight and not to high around your neck and leave only the top shirt button open.

Yours,
Mr. Tweed


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## Mongo (May 9, 2008)

weckl said:


> Theoretically, I'm sure some men could pull it off, but I simply can't imagine a situation in which I'd wear one without coming off as laughably Thurston Howell-esque.
> 
> If I were driving an old Ferrari around Newport or Delaware, it would be even more comically attention-seeking: "Look at me! I'm rich!" Afraid to say I think the ascot is a thing of the past. It just carries too much baggage.


And this is just precisely (other than I live in Halifax) the reason I can't see pulling off wearing one, much as I might like to try. Actually, if you're driving an old Ferrari around, you need to be very careful about what you wear, for just the reasons you state.

I'd love to try wearing one, but simply wearing a necktie around here is sufficiently outre. And a pocket square -- the horror! Not that I don't wear both anyway.


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## Mark Ligett (May 10, 2008)

PJC: Go ahead and give the ascot a try! It is a great look. And that wine and ivory one you have sounds classy!


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Jovan said:


> While the first two images are compelling arguments, I'm afraid the last three aren't at all. If they had actually done something with their hair they'd have a better chance at looking debonair instead of careless.


Second that. And as I have pointed out numerous time on these pages, they are an item of casual wear, not formal wear. Hense its proper name: "day cravat", not "ascot"


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## JordanH. (Jul 31, 2008)

i don't understand why people are afraid to wear one. it won't bite you. fashion people get away with stuff that should really never be worn in public and they get praise for it, so why can't you wear something that is correct and loks good?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

What is correct in the eyes of clothing afficionados who post on clothing message boards may not be accepted by those we meet in our everyday lives. If they are snickering behind your back, it may not be a good thing.


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## Guy Redux (Apr 3, 2009)

rmcnabb said:


> ... the first thing that pops into my head is Ted Knight as Judge Smails from "Caddyshack"


A better reason than most, IMHO.

"I didn't want to do it... I felt I owed it to him."


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## Mark Ligett (May 10, 2008)

*Good advice!*

Flanderin:

Good adice about wearing an ascot with only one button undone. You are so right...it helps to keep the ascot more secure and in place. But even with just one button open, any ascot will start to loosen and slide a bit. But, that is part of the fun of wearing an ascot...getting to adjust it periodically!!! <smile>



Flanderian said:


> I'm a crusty old guy, but am uncertain what a GTH attitude might be, though I probably possess it.
> 
> They're wonderful! Learned from Will at A Suitable Wardrobe, I'd been wearing them wrong all my life. (I got an early start.) As seen in photos, I'd been wearing the collar button, and the second button open. But the thing about ascots is that they eventually will ride lower and askew. With the second button undone, this looks very poor. But with it done up, it helps the ascot remain in place better, and looks fine. Just a nice colorful bit of silk hiding the base of my ugly old neck!


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

JordanH. said:


> i don't understand why people are afraid to wear one. it won't bite you. fashion people get away with stuff that should really never be worn in public and they get praise for it, so why can't you wear something that is correct and loks good?


I've never heard bad things. I don't wear flambo fabrics, though. People might think stuff, but not say it. If worn properly, the ascot/day cravat is a nice piece of clothing that isn't bulging out or screaming for attention.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> If they are snickering behind your back, it may not be a good thing.


I needn't dress in any particular way, I've found that just a few minutes of conversation usually does the trick! :icon_smile_big:


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## PinkPlaidSocks (May 1, 2008)

IMO the entire subject hinges around context. I wouldn't wear my best suit to a barbecue or a dinner jacket to go grocery shopping. Similarly, a cravat would look affected and silly in 99.9% of the situations I encounter in daily life. On the other hand, if I ever get invited to the country club for martinis at 4:00, or if Grace Kelly wants to take me Sunday driving in an Alpine convertible........


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

J.Marko said:


> I could see wearing one with a nice tweed jacket under certain, rare, daytime circumstances. Of course I don't even own a tweed jacket yet but I am trying to start upgrading.


I happen to be wearing an ascot/day cravat together with a nice tweed jacket (our Andy himself was with me when I ordered it from my buddies in Kowloon) at this very moment.

As I have ofttimes remarked in these threads, I see it as a nice way station between the formality of the necktie and the casual/slovenly look of the open-necked shirt. I certainly see it as preferable to displaying a crew-necked undershirt with an open collar, although this seems far less controversial.

As the shade of Thurston Howell III fades into distant memory, I wonder if the ascot is as freighted with symbolism as many in these threads suppose. I was recently in a checkout line at the grocery, and the clerk was more curious about my pocket square than my ascot, even though the pocket square is a far more common item of apparel. I wonder if many people pay much attention to them.

They certainly elicit a strong reaction from my wife. She just loathes them, regarding them as "affected" and "pretentious." So great is her hatred of them she will not even say the word "ascot." She will say, "That THING you've got around your neck."

I was out at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at UCLA yesterday. Through certain connections, we were able to utilize the VIP lounge. Most of the men--authors, panelists, etc.--were horribly ill attired. I saw no man better attired than myself although one notable dandy who might have outclassed me was about. At one of those events a few years ago, I saw Gay Talese, who certainly lived up to his reputation as a first-rate sartorialist. Anyway, I did see one old guy wearing an ascot. (And when I describe someone as "old," it means he was pretty damn old.) As an ascot fan, I should have liked to have been able to describe him as an icon of mature elegance. In point of fact, he really didn't look very good: The ascot was a definite sartorial incongruity paired with his baseball cap, jeans, Western belt, etc.

Oh, in the photos of Cary Grant the OP posted, I think Grant is actually wearing a silk scarf rather than true ascot in the right-hand photo.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

Didn't hurt this fellow any!



"Ahoy polloi... where did you come from, a scotch ad? "


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## weckl (Jun 28, 2003)

PinkPlaidSocks said:


> IMO the entire subject hinges around context. I wouldn't wear my best suit to a barbecue or a dinner jacket to go grocery shopping. Similarly, a cravat would look affected and silly in 99.9% of the situations I encounter in daily life. On the other hand, if I ever get invited to the country club for martinis at 4:00, or if Grace Kelly wants to take me Sunday driving in an Alpine convertible........


It would have looked great driving around with Grace Kelly, but it's worthy to note that she's been dead for about 27 years.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

JLibourel said:


> She will say, "That THING you've got around your neck."


You unruly possession, you! :icon_smile_big:

Thanks for an entertaining and instructive post.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Sure, why not...


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

Very nice ^^^


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Relayer said:


> Didn't hurt this fellow any!
> 
> "Ahoy polloi... where did you come from, a scotch ad? "


But isn't this what they wear at St. Olaf of the Lake Law School or wherever it was Noonan said he wanted to go? Very funny scene.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Mark Ligett said:


> PJC: Go ahead and give the ascot a try! It is a great look. And that wine and ivory one you have sounds classy!


All in good time, my man, all in good time . . .

It is a nice one, and I got it a Syms for like, $12. They used to carry quite a few ascots in classic shades and patterns.


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## Carioca Canuck (Apr 28, 2009)

The last time I wore a "dickie" as we called ascots, was 30 years ago in the army. Mine was light blue on one half and dark blue on the other (our regimental colors) and we wore it with our combat dress or work dress when in barracks, and not in the field. Hot and annoying is how I remember it.......so I'd say you wouldn't catch me dead in one today, for not only those reasons, but style as well. IMHO some things are best left alone once they've passed on.......

BTW, hello to everyone.........I've been a lurker for a while and this is my first post.


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## nicksull (Sep 1, 2005)

*Earl Of March*

Once got to style the Earl of March (he of Goodwood Festival of Speed fame) for British GQ - apart from his own madder print cravat which he charmingly asked to tie himself. I wasnt going to argue.

It was a wonder to behold and done in a nanosecond. I think it works for some. Not for all.

He definitely got away with it. Maybe because he was wearing vintage red cotton racing overalls at the time and sitting in an unspeakably beautiful D Type (the one in which Sterling Moss won LeMans).

Its like some enduring items on the fringe of alright. Great for those who can rock them, a no go area for others. Fair do's
Hurrah.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Carioca Canuck said:


> The last time I wore a "dickie" as we called ascots, was 30 years ago in the army. Mine was light blue on one half and dark blue on the other (our regimental colors) and we wore it with our combat dress or work dress when in barracks, and not in the field. Hot and annoying is how I remember it.......so I'd say you wouldn't catch me dead in one today, for not only those reasons, but style as well. IMHO some things are best left alone once they've passed on.......
> 
> BTW, hello to everyone.........I've been a lurker for a while and this is my first post.


Assuming the research for the movie was correct, the US 7th Cav wore them in the Vietnam era, tho' curiously in this clip they are shown as sky blue (the distinctive color signifying the US Army infantry) rather than golden-yellow (the traditional cavalry color):






Perhaps b/c the 7th Cav fought dismounted they were considered infantry at the time?


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Doing what?*

That, it seems to me, is the big question. Precisely what would one be doing, and I suppose one must add where doing it, that would call for wearing a scarf tied in a fall under one's shirt? In the case of Beckham and Kutcher, it appears attending some event that gives them the opportunity to play dress-up. In the case of the activity Grant is pictured doing, it's navigator in a gymcana, one would guess. Since that is probably a still from a movie, then he is wearing it as part of a costume. In his publicity shot, he is really wearing one again as a costume. I very seriously doubt that Cary Grant spent much time in his actual life wearing that as part of his "normal day-to-day."


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> The market fails us more than individual cowardice. I know several brick & mortar stores that stock great bow ties and pocket squares, but have yet to see an ascot. I'm not finding the paisleys and foulards I want on the interwebs either.


Have you checked the selection at Forzieri.com? Another possibility is Beautiesltd.com, which offers MTO ascots in most of its fabrics.


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## JordanH. (Jul 31, 2008)

this is one of my favorite pictures of someone wearing an ascot.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Srynerson said:


> Have you checked the selection at Forzieri.com? Another possibility is Beautiesltd.com, which offers MTO ascots in most of its fabrics.


Here's a nice one in a gray ancient madder from The Brothers a couple of seasons ago:

I have the necktie that BB made from this selfsame fabric in both this gray and a russet shade. It's a lovely silk; has that suede-like ancient-madder feel and the appropriately muted vegetable-dyed tone that only true a.m. has.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> What is correct in the eyes of clothing afficionados who post on clothing message boards may not be accepted by those we meet in our everyday lives. If they are snickering behind your back, it may not be a good thing.


I think you need to wear it in a casual way. It shouldn't be self conscious. Now I have worn some tricky outfits (bubble gum pink suit springs to mind circa 98 or "man who fell to Earth" style suit circa 2000) but no one has even acknoledged I am wearing an Ascot let alone laughed at me.

I suppose it goes to show perhaps when your not self conscious about what your wearing and it seems natural people are less likely to abuse you.

In any case in the words of Adam Ant Ridicule is nothing to be scared of.

All sounds very Tony Wilson that.He used to like Ascots too.:aportnoy:


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Carioca Canuck said:


> The last time I wore a "dickie" as we called ascots, was 30 years ago in the army. Mine was light blue on one half and dark blue on the other (our regimental colors) and we wore it with our combat dress or work dress when in barracks, and not in the field. Hot and annoying is how I remember it.......so I'd say you wouldn't catch me dead in one today, for not only those reasons, but style as well. IMHO some things are best left alone once they've passed on.......
> 
> BTW, hello to everyone.........I've been a lurker for a while and this is my first post.


In normal usage, I do believe, a "dickie" is quite a distinct garment from an ascot/day cravat.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

JordanH. said:


> this is one of my favorite pictures of someone wearing an ascot.


Case closed in favor of the ascot.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

amplifiedheat said:


> Case closed in favor of the ascot.


Sure, if you're Fred Astaire (PBUH).


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## weckl (Jun 28, 2003)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Sure, if you're Fred Astaire (PBUH).


Righto. I hate to say it, because I'm somewhat of a traditionalist myself, but if you wore that today, you'd look like a total jackass.


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## weckl (Jun 28, 2003)

Blueboy1938 said:


> That, it seems to me, is the big question. Precisely what would one be doing, and I suppose one must add where doing it, that would call for wearing a scarf tied in a fall under one's shirt? In the case of Beckham and Kutcher, it appears attending some event that gives them the opportunity to play dress-up. In the case of the activity Grant is pictured doing, it's navigator in a gymcana, one would guess. Since that is probably a still from a movie, then he is wearing it as part of a costume. In his publicity shot, he is really wearing one again as a costume. I very seriously doubt that Cary Grant spent much time in his actual life wearing that as part of his "normal day-to-day."


I completely agree. It's easy to confuse "style icons" with the costumes they wore/wear in movies. I live in Los Angeles, and every movie star I've seen looks like a total slob.


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## Mark Ligett (May 10, 2008)

*Great look, Matt!!!!*

Thanks for sharing these pics. What a classic look!


iammatt said:


> Sure, why not...


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

weckl said:


> I completely agree. It's easy to confuse "style icons" with the costumes they wore/wear in movies. I live in Los Angeles, and every movie star I've seen looks like a total slob.


Cary Grant was no slob in his daily life. I can't find the picture myself, but I remember one where he's eating dinner wearing an ascot and sport coat.

A lot of movie stars dress like slobs now because they don't want to be recognised on the street. Ever notice how many stare toward the ground and wear hats or shapeless clothing? The paparazzi are ruthless these days, so I hate to say it -- they have my sympathy.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

If you pull your ascot over your nose a la Bazooka Joe and his turtleneck, it could come in handy in warding off the dread swine flu. 

So there's that to be said for these curious neckerchieves . . .


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Jovan said:


> A lot of movie stars dress like slobs now because they don't want to be recognised on the street. Ever notice how many stare toward the ground and wear hats or shapeless clothing?


I can't tell how many times I "ran into" stars around Burbank. When in parking lots, stores, or on my motorcycle at lights, there they were, dressed awful, riding the crappiest old cars, looking terrified or paranoid.

It's a shame that they rarely keep sartorial excellence in society.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

JLibourel said:


> In normal usage, I do believe, a "dickie" is quite a distinct garment from an ascot/day cravat.


Second that! USAF circa 1967 and I was issued some foul Day-glow yellow polyester contraption with a snap on the side and absent any way to knot it, as is clearly depicted in PJC's photo of US Army troups in a similar powder blue version. But I was fortunate, and my duty never required I wear it.


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## JordanH. (Jul 31, 2008)

i don't understand the replies in this thread. some people don't want to wear an ascot because people wll laugh at them? why not stop wearing shirts, ties, and sport coats all together then? for the folks that don't know how to dress correctly, even the pocket square and lace up shoe are unnecessary. if everyone on this board followed what the rest of the world finds suitable, then we would be nothing but a herd of black suit with black shirt and square toed Kenneth Cole shoes wearing slobs.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

JordanH. said:


> i don't understand the replies in this thread. some people don't want to wear an ascot because people wll laugh at them? why not stop wearing shirts, ties, and sport coats all together then? for the folks that don't know how to dress correctly, even the pocket square and lace up shoe are unnecessary. if everyone on this board followed what the rest of the world finds suitable, then we would be nothing but a herd of black suit with black shirt and square toed Kenneth Cole shoes wearing slobs.


Okay, I'll answer it a different way. I won't wear an ascot because it's a ridiculous exercise in foppery. The fact that people have the entirely justifiable reaction of laughing at the wearer is just an unfortunate consequence of the wearer's choice of a ridiculous costume.

Of course, that's just one man's opinion.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

jackmccullough said:


> Okay, I'll answer it a different way. I won't wear an ascot because it's a ridiculous exercise in foppery. The fact that people have the entirely justifiable reaction of laughing at the wearer is just an unfortunate consequence of the wearer's choice of a ridiculous costume.


Jack, I'll make a point of wearing one in your honor the next time I dine in Montpelier! :icon_smile_big:


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## Carioca Canuck (Apr 28, 2009)

I'll start wearing an ascot when wearing y-fronts on the outside of my pants becomes fashionable. It's the same IMHO.......


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> Okay, I'll answer it a different way. I won't wear an ascot because it's a ridiculous exercise in foppery. The fact that people have the entirely justifiable reaction of laughing at the wearer is just an unfortunate consequence of the wearer's choice of a ridiculous costume.
> 
> Of course, that's just one man's opinion.


Someone giggled at me because I happened to be wearing a suit in a supermarket once.

I guess I'll stop wearing suits altogether. It's such a _costume_ in this modern world of t-shirts and jeans.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

Preu Pummel said:


> I can't tell how many times I "ran into" stars around Burbank. When in parking lots, stores, or on my motorcycle at lights, there they were, dressed awful, riding the crappiest old cars, looking terrified or paranoid.
> 
> It's a shame that they rarely keep sartorial excellence in society.


Those are not "Stars" only movie "actors".


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

I've worn day cravats to attend suburban theater.
it did take a moment or two for my wife to approve but she does so now. I'd do it with out her approval anyway so she might as well play along.

If all we craved was the approval of the man or woman on the street we could just wear any old T and torn jeans and easily get it.


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## PinkPlaidSocks (May 1, 2008)

JordanH. said:


> i don't understand the replies in this thread. some people don't want to wear an ascot because people wll laugh at them? why not stop wearing shirts, ties, and sport coats all together then?


Because I don't want to over-react and throw out the baby with the bath water. It's not an all-or-nothing equation. People are going to laugh at me for wearing a coat and tie? Maybe if I were on the beach. I MIGHT be able to get away with an ascot at some weddings and maybe ballroom dances, but I'd still feel silly. And I may as well state the ultimate blasphemy; I've never seen one on ANYONE, Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, et.al included, that I didn't think it looked a little effeminate. Same goes for the neckerchief tied with a four-in-hand under an open collared shirt.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Jovan said:


> Someone giggled at me because I happened to be wearing a suit in a supermarket once.
> 
> I guess I'll stop wearing suits altogether. It's such a _costume_ in this modern world of t-shirts and jeans.


In most environments, suits and ties are modern dress worn by some people.

Almost no one wears ascots and they were extremely rare 40 years ago.

If you want to wear one, go ahead. If you want to wear a frock coat go ahead.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

PinkPlaidSocks said:


> I've never seen one on ANYONE, Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, et.al included, that I didn't think it looked a little effeminate.


Obviously, you've never seen me! :icon_smile_big: (And how lucky you are!)


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

iammatt said:


> Sure, why not...


I don't know which look I like best. Very nice.


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## JordanH. (Jul 31, 2008)

PinkPlaidSocks said:


> Because I don't want to over-react and throw out the baby with the bath water. It's not an all-or-nothing equation. 1. *People are going to laugh at me for wearing a coat and tie?* Maybe if I were on the beach. I MIGHT be able to get away with an ascot at some weddings and maybe ballroom dances,2. *but I'd still feel silly*. And I may as well state the ultimate blasphemy; I've never seen one on ANYONE,3. *Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, et.al included, that I didn't think it looked a little effeminate.* Same goes for the neckerchief tied with a four-in-hand under an open collared shirt.


1. I experience this.

2. Is it that you'd feel silly wearing an ascot because you don't like them, or because people think you look silly?

3. They looked effiminate?

The only time I wore anything similar to an ascot, I wore a silk scarf tie like one. I didn't feel silly, maybe because I love ascots. Thing is, I didn't get laughed at. Every comment I got was positive. I no longer feel that convincing other people that the ascot is a perfectly acceptable alternative to a tie in non business settings is stupid. I will, Lord willing, continue to wear what I feel looks good, provided that it's appropriate dress no matter what others may say.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I agree with you to a point. A lot depends on your circle and how much they are "into" clothes.

However, I would hope that you would not substitute the ascot for a tie in social situations like weddings and funeral where a tie is more appropriate.

I'm not a fan and would not say that wearing them is a good idea for most people, though.


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## JordanH. (Jul 31, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I agree with you to a point. A lot depends on your circle and how much they are "into" clothes.
> 
> However, I would hope that you would not substitute the ascot for a tie in social situations like *weddings and funeral* where a tie is more appropriate.
> 
> I'm not a fan and would not say that wearing them is a good idea for most people, though.


definitely not! lol, I like ascots, but wearing them to a funeral seems harsh. I just think they're fine for things that are not very formal or somber.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

PinkPlaidSocks said:


> I've never seen one on ANYONE, Cary Grant, Fred Astaire, et.al included, that I didn't think it looked a little effeminate.


Even Clark Gable?


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

I wore a cravat to dinner aboard a cruise ship. Did not feel out of place or get any comments or looks. I am of an age which allows for "eccentricities" A dickie I believe, is like the neck portion of a turtleneck sweater, with about six inches of cloth attached to the neck. Wearing one makes it appear that you are wearing a turtleneck sweater under your shirt.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

jackmccullough said:


> Okay, I'll answer it a different way. I won't wear an ascot because it's a ridiculous exercise in foppery. *Of course, that's just one man's opinion.*


Correction: _two_ men's opinions.
​


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## gordgekko (Nov 12, 2004)

Beckham, Piven and Kutcher are hardly examples to aspire to.

That said, I can't imagine ever wearing one and I'm known among my friends for occasionally going off on my own tangents when it comes to sartorial matters. Just seems a little too precious for my tastes.

But Cary Grant did look good in them.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

But Mr. Gekko, aren't you known to wear horizontally striped shirts?


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## nicksull (Sep 1, 2005)

*I think this has proved 2 things:*

1 
Some people like ascots and others don't. Those that dont like ascots think them rather dated, often effeminate and ultimately pretentious. Naturally enough those who do like them tend to disagree on all these points and defend them against all comers.

2 The use of Jeremy Piven as a supporting argument is not sound.

There now we can put the matter to rest for a month or two at least. Sure aint going to be a winner.

Now lets talk about Spats....


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

In case anyone's interested in trying this type of neckwear, here's a current source:


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## Claybuster (Aug 29, 2007)

nicksull said:


> 1
> 
> Now lets talk about Spats....


After I told a friend of mine that I was wearing sock garters, she then asked if I was going to get any Spats:icon_smile_big:

Danny


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## Cary Grant (Sep 11, 2008)

Grant wore them very high to cover for his unusally large neck and head.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Only Cary Grant is the good example, the rest aren't (they are one of those 'contemp(t)orary' black tie hideousities). 

I am erring on getting one as I do not want to be open necked when wearing a shirt (my mother frowns upon me wearing a necktie save for formal ocassions).


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

What's wrong with being open necked? It's comfortable, especially in summer.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Cardcaptor Charlie said:


> ...(they are one of those 'contemp(t)orary' black tie hideousities)...


"Hideousities." I like that word. I will use it. Thank you.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Jovan said:


> What's wrong with being open necked? It's comfortable, especially in summer.


Not when I wear a jacket, etc. I somehow feel that there is a piece missing and that piece is a form of neckwear...


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I guess that's where we diverge. Around this time I'm trying whatever I can to keep cool while wearing a jacket at the same time.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

I guess I am lucky to live in a more cooler climate...


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

On the immediately forgoing remarks, I think both a jacket and ascot serve to elevate the level of dress--either separately or jointly.

If I had to do some sort of rating on descending levels of formality, it would be:

1. Jacket and necktie

2. Jacket and ascot

3. Jacket without ascot

4. Ascot without jacket

Under the influence of certain members of the forum culture, I like less and less wearing a jacket and an open necked shirt (sans tie or ascot). It now strikes me as unfinished looking. Nonetheless, I still do it sometimes. 

Like most iGents, I deplore the practice of wearing shirt and tie sans jacket.

A nice thing about the ascot/day cravat it that it can transform an otherwise very mundane casual ensemble. On any day you are likely to see any number of men wearing khakis or cords and an open-necked sports shirt. Don an ascot and you have immediately injected a strong dose of faux-patrician panache that elevates you above "hoi polloi."

For those who say ascots seem effeminate, the old time gun authority Jack O'Connor mentioned in his writings that the Arizona cowboys of his day quite commonly wore silk scarves, which are first cousins, if not half-siblings, to the ascot.

Some of you may have seen the ill-fated movie "Australia." In the film, the cattle king who is murdered by his son in law quite commonly wears an ascot. Although not a likable figure, he certainly came across as a virile man.

One drawback to ascots is that they are quite hot--they decrease air circulation under the shirt enough to be annoying in really hot weather.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

I always find the defense of the ascot interesting, because I find the thing as outlandish as a top hat, monocle or bowler.

Personally, I'd love to wear a cloak, and have seen many that looked incredibly stylish in old pictures. But I don't make any claim that it would be anything other than costume.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Part of me is glad that some out there are keeping "the ascot (or day cravat) tradition" alive, even though I find the things pretty durned costumey and can't imagine wearing one till I am well into retirement (which may never happen given the plight of my 401k, but that's another topic altogether).


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

DocHolliday said:


> I always find the defense of the ascot interesting, because I find the thing as outlandish as a top hat, monocle or bowler.
> 
> Personally, I'd love to wear a cloak, and have seen many that looked incredibly stylish in old pictures. But I don't make any claim that it would be anything other than costume.


I just don't think they are that big a deal. As with most things, if you wear them comfortably, it just becomes part of a whole.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

DocHolliday said:


> I always find the defense of the ascot interesting, because I find the thing as outlandish as a top hat, monocle or bowler.
> 
> Personally, I'd love to wear a cloak, and have seen many that looked incredibly stylish in old pictures. But I don't make any claim that it would be anything other than costume.


But surely an ascot is a lot less conspicuous than a top hat, monocle, bowler or cloak, for that matter. A great many men will let the top of a crew-necked T-shirt be visible under a collared shirt. Is replacing that with a few square inches of colored silk that big a deal?


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

iammatt said:


> I just don't think they are that big a deal. As with most things, if you wear them comfortably, it just becomes part of a whole.


Would the same be true of my cloak? You know I love to wear some crazy things, but I do it knowing I'm wearing a crazy thing. What I find interesting in these threads is the denial that the ascot _is_ a crazy thing. There's always the suggestion that it's secretly admired by the masses, or that it makes the wearer look like Cary Grant, or whathaveyou.

In general, I find we're much more tolerant of our own eccentricities than others'. Folks here almost universally tear into Thom Browne, because it doesn't match up with conservative norms, yet then a sizable number try to make the case that ascots should be exempted from modern norms, or that the opinions of the masses shouldn't matter. That, to me, doesn't compute.

Personally, I tend to think dudes ought to wear what they like, within reason. But I also think people need to be honest with themselves about what they're wearing, why they're wearing it, and how others may see it. I may yet get my cloak, but I won't try to convince everyone here -- or myself -- that the world at large finds it perfectly normal.

.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

DocHolliday said:


> I always find the defense of the ascot interesting, because I find the thing as outlandish as a top hat, monocle or bowler.
> 
> Personally, I'd love to wear a cloak, and have seen many that looked incredibly stylish in old pictures. But I don't make any claim that it would be anything other than costume.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

DocHolliday said:


> Would the same be true of my cloak? You know I love to wear some crazy things, but I do it knowing I'm wearing a crazy thing. What I find interesting in these threads is the denial that the ascot _is_ a crazy thing. There's always the suggestion that it's secretly admired by the masses, or that it makes the wearer look like Cary Grant, or whathaveyou.
> 
> In general, I find we're much more tolerant of our own eccentricities than others'. Folks here almost universally tear into Thom Browne, because it doesn't match up with conservative norms, yet then a sizable number try to make the case that ascots should be exempted from modern norms, or that the opinions of the masses shouldn't matter. That, to me, doesn't compute.
> 
> ...


Great post, Doc. I just wish I had thought to organize my thoughts that way first.


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

iammatt said:


> Sure, why not...


Nice pattern matching.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

DocHolliday said:


> What I find interesting in these threads is the denial that the ascot _is_ a crazy thing. There's always the suggestion that it's secretly admired by the masses, or that it makes the wearer look like Cary Grant, or whathaveyou.


I think the craziest thing around is your wording.

An ascot is a CRAZY thing? They aren't crazy or unseen, just rare clothing. I've never seen anyone in my vision wearing a cloak or a top hat (outside of stage costumes), but I have seen plenty of people wearing ascots as normal fashion.

Your personal tastes aside, ascots ARE still worn by a minority of men in America. These men generally are dressed typically aide from their ascots when I've seen them. Tophats and cloaks are not worn by more than a couple of wild eccentrics in America, outside of stage or weddings. Those people tend to be fashioned oddly in more ways than one accessory or piece of clothing.

The ascot is a valid piece of modern attire, though rare. Why would you get so upset about people discussing them? Why malign those people?


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Plenty of people wearing ascots? How many have you seen in, say, the last week? The last month? I live in an area prone to such eccentricities, and I've seen only a few in the flesh.

The categorization of "rare" versus "not worn by more than a couple of wild eccentrics in America" strikes me as very favorably defined for the ascot wearer, and the distinction is probably more obvious to him than to the world at large. Not that the ascot is at the far end of the costume spectrum, but it's still far less common than, say, the bowtie, which already comes with some baggage. If those "wild eccentrics" were wearing their cloaks with nothing else unusual or bohemian, would that make it better? Would you not still be struck by the fact that someone was wearing a cloak?

Let me clarify that I mean "crazy" in a genial spirit, more "unconventional" or "unorthodox" than "deranged." I had hoped that would be understood from my statement that I _like_ to wear crazy things, now and then. There's nothing wrong with wearing stuff that others may find odd or unusual or quirky, as long as you're willing to accept that you're wearing something others may find odd or unusual or quirky.

Yet here we have a thread in which guys are arguing that the ascot is not seen as odd or unusual or quirky, even as a bunch of other guys tell them that yes, that's exactly how they see it. Wear an ascot if you wish, but be comfortable with it and its associations, I say.

.


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## JordanH. (Jul 31, 2008)

I understand that other people may see wearing ascots as eccentric, but 99% of those other people think that buying jeans with holes in them is normal. Most of those people would do something like wearing linen in the dead of winter (which I actually see). Most of these people see the wearing of coats and ties as "old mannish", so what do these peoples' opinions matter to any of us? If you don't lke the ascot, fine. It just seems as if the people who don't like it put it on trial. If you don't like it, why discuss it? Your opinion won't influence me just like mine won't make you go out and buy one. I think this discussion should just stop right here.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I just worry about neophytes who come here and if the discussion were not vibrant on both sides might think that ascots are "normal" wear and would be accepted without reservation by most folks they run into.

It's true that people who are interested in clothing like JLibourel and Iammatt can make ascots look stylish and look great in them. Both these guys also have the complete self-confidence where they can wear them and look great, (not affected.) 

However, both these guys will always look great, (even if they have to do manual labor) because they have the confidence and clothing sense (that few of the rest of us have) where they just always "know what to do and how to do it." In my humble opinion, they are two of the best dressers on these clothing boards (and I'm well aware that they do not think of me that way; that's totally okay. I'm not in their league and know it.) They can push the boundaries and look totally refined, not like they are "getting away with something."

I hope I'm not picking on them; for them, ascots are a legitimate clothing choice and they look good when they wear them.

For the average guy browsing AAAC for clothing tips, I'm not as sure.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

DocHolliday said:


> Plenty of people wearing ascots? How many have you seen in, say, the last week? The last month? I live in an area prone to such eccentricities, and I've seen only a few in the flesh.
> 
> Let me clarify that I mean "crazy" in a genial spirit, more "unconventional" or "unorthodox" than "deranged." I had hoped that would be understood from my statement that I _like_ to wear crazy things, now and then.


I live in an area where I see no one wearing them. But, I used to live in LA and NYC and while they weren't something you saw every day, it wasn't unusual to see them several times a week, generally with older men.

As for the use of the word crazy, there is nothing crazy about an ascot. There is something crazy about calling an ascot crazy.


JordanH. said:


> If you don't lke the ascot, fine. It just seems as if the people who don't like it put it on trial. If you don't like it, why discuss it?


That's what I see as well.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Preu Pummel said:


> I live in an area where I see no one wearing them. But, I used to live in LA and NYC and while they weren't something you saw every day, it wasn't unusual to see them several times a week, generally with older men.
> 
> As for the use of the word crazy, there is nothing crazy about an ascot. There is something crazy about calling an ascot crazy.


And I tend to think they look best on older men in an urban setting. They can still look affected, but at least they have more context. On younger guys, of which I am one, they usually look silly or try-hard.

Really, there's no need to be so defensive. No personal insult was intended. I tend to agree with Jordan that those who like ascots should enjoy them, and that no amount of arguing will change many opinions. My point is that some people won't like them, and that wearers should accept that, rather than trying to convince us to the contrary. I wear plenty of stuff other people won't like -- even post pictures of it here -- but I wear it because I want to wear it, and I'm perfectly fine with the fact that others may disapprove or think I look silly.

Really, I suspect the secret to pulling off such things is to care only so much about how others may react.

.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Certainly, we can agree that the ascot/day cravat is an uncommon and seldom-seen item of apparel these days. Nonetheless, there is a qualitative difference between the ascot and such eccentric items of apparel as the topper, the derby and the cloak. The latter are normally only available from specialty shops catering to costume enthusiasts and the like. Ascots, on the other hand, are offered not uncommonly by high-end retailers of menswear. For instance, both Carroll & Co. in Beverly Hills and Gary's in Fashion Island, unquestionably the two best independent retailers of menswear in my area, customarily carry ascots. So does the Beverly Hills Polo Shop. The South Coast Plaza Brooks Brothers has carried them on occasion as has the Polo Shop there. Last time I looked, Brooks and J. Press were both offering them on-line. I think you would be very hard-pressed to go into one of those stores and come out with derby/bowler on the other hand. For this reason, I would argue that the ascot is a quantum jump more "mainstream" than, say, the monocle.

Most of the ascots sold at retail are frightfully pricey, I find. I bought a couple from Carroll when they were $95, but since they jacked up the price to $115, I have passed. Those at Brooks, Gary's and Polo were even more expensive. Perhaps if they were more readily available at reasonable cost, more men would wear them. I've been getting mine from Beau Ties Ltd. for about $77 with shipping, which still seems somewhat dear. I don't remember them being particularly expensive when I used to buy them back in the '70s.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

I take your point, Jan, but I'll note Brooks was offering a topper over the winter and is stocking a $200 straw boater now.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Just thought I'd mention that I was complimented on my appearance three times in the past 24 hours by total strangers (two women, one man) while wearing two different ascots (with jackets and pocket squares, of course).

"Ascots and pocket squares,
that's what every cool guy wears."

My best friend just said he thought ascots were affected and foppish, in other words, so me!


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

well let me tell you that I am 30 years old and married to an American Wolford model who is 19 years old. She loves me in an Ascot..........she has red hair....... I think that speaks for itself:icon_smile_big:


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Hey! Maybe if I wear an ascot often enough, I can run off with a 19-year-old Wolford model and ditch my ascot-hating wife, too. A redhead would be great, but "beggars can't be choosers," as the saying goes. However, I don't think I could keep a 19-year-old entertained or satisfied for any length of time!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

My girlfriend, also a redhead, is not opposed to the idea of ascots.


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

Jovan said:


> My girlfriend, also a redhead, is not opposed to the idea of ascots.


Braggart!:icon_smile_big:


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

David Reeves said:


> well let me tell you that I am 30 years old and married to an American Wolford model who is 19 years old. She loves me in an Ascot..........she has red hair....... I think that speaks for itself:icon_smile_big:


Sorry to disapoint chaps. The wife had a bit too much wine at dinner and thought it would be funny to post this when I went to the bathroom. she's really 22 (I am 29) and let me tell you she's hard work enough at this age!

Everything else is accurate though.

An Ascot really isn't eccentric like a cape.

Edward Fox wears one very well I think.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Orsini said:


> "Hideousities." I like that word. I will use it. Thank you.


To make it a legitimate word in English the "u" should be deleted.

Just as the noun form of "monstrous" is "monstrosity", the noun form of "hideous" should be "hideosity".


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

David Reeves said:


> Sorry to disapoint chaps. The wife had a bit too much wine at dinner and thought it would be funny to post this when I went to the bathroom. she's really 22 (I am 29) and let me tell you she's hard work enough at this age!
> 
> Everything else is accurate though.
> 
> ...


But please don't discourage her, David, this forum needs all the beautiful 22-year-old ladies it can obtain. I, for one, am *extremely* tolerant of the opinions of attractive young women!


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Flanderian said:


> But please don't discourage her, David, this forum needs all the beautiful 22-year-old ladies it can obtain. I, for one, am *extremely* tolerant of the opinions of attractive young women!


 I think she's a little worried I spend so much time on my Iphone looking at this Forum. She always jokes that I am texting my "girl freind". Alas no. I am just probably looking at holdfasts trousers or talking about Mohair!:icon_smile_big:


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

clothesboy said:


> Braggart!:icon_smile_big:


Not bragging, just seeing a striking similarity. Is there something about redheads that makes them a "prize" or whatever?

I hope he isn't married to my girlfriend in secret. :crazy:


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

They are prizes for those of us who prize redheads, that's for sure. My first wife was a natural redhead. My second wife had her hair given reddish tints because she was aware of my predilection. My third wife was a redhead (by artifice) when I met her. She has a very fair complexion and light gray-blue eyes, so she could pull off being a redhead very well.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm not sure I get the fascination, but okay!


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## wimbledonballs (Sep 22, 2008)

*ASCOT*

HI GUY
Are any guy going to wear ascot or pocket sq this coming
weekend?
Going out on Saturday and will be wearing one with a pockets
great to see so many comments on this forum with regards
to ascot:icon_smile:


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## rmcnabb (Feb 25, 2009)

Ascots, fedoras, pocket watches, canes...lots of things are great style but out of fashion. If enough people start doing it, then it becomes fashion. (They're like the tweed 8 piece cap - a super looking piece of apparel that just doesn't really fit the times any more.) But noone ever said they weren't good style. Almost noone wears them in large part because they have become a fashion trope in Hollywood movies. 

To me ascots just look like you're trying too hard.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

For anyone interested in a slightly beefier, countrified version of the ascot, I stumbled across this the other day:



They are patterned silk on one side, apparently, and solid-colored cotton on the other. They might be less prone to slippage than the pure silk kind.


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## edward9 (May 8, 2009)

"Chuck Bass" character on Gossip Girl.

I watched a few episodes of this show when it was new and was attracted to the visuals, including the way the characters dressed, but then I tired of the story lines and the lack of depth in the characters.

This particular character is a bad boy who dresses like a peacock, and he pulls off some outfits that I would never think to wear.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

wimbledonballs said:


> HI GUY
> Are any guy going to wear ascot or pocket sq this coming
> weekend?
> Going out on Saturday and will be wearing one with a pockets
> ...


Ascot probably, pocket square definitely.


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## wheredidyougetthathat (Mar 26, 2006)

edward9 said:


> "Chuck Bass" character on Gossip Girl.
> 
> I watched a few episodes of this show when it was new and was attracted to the visuals, including the way the characters dressed, but then I tired of the story lines and the lack of depth in the characters.
> 
> This particular character is a bad boy who dresses like a peacock, and he pulls off some outfits that I would never think to wear.


sleeves too long


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

wheredidyougetthathat said:


> sleeves too long


And essentially hideous and repulsive beyond description.

I have a hat from a shop with the same name as your handle, BTW. Purchased in Arlington, Vermont circa 1983.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

PJC in NoVa said:


> For anyone interested in a slightly beefier, countrified version of the ascot, I stumbled across this the other day:
> 
> They are patterned silk on one side, apparently, and solid-colored cotton on the other. They might be less prone to slippage than the pure silk kind.


Although I had seen this site before, I decided to go ahead and order one. Got the partridges on a green tweed background. Will report in this thread on how I like it when I receive it in a couple of weeks. The price is reasonable, a bit over $42 with shipping.


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## edward9 (May 8, 2009)

Yeah, sleeves too long. However the thing around his neck doesn't look bad, at least compared to the photos of Piven or Kutcher.

I think the outfit in general has something somehow pleasing about it, at least in the make-believe context of a tv-show (outside of our familiar customs and norms). The colors and lines draw attention to his face, which, I think, is one of the functions of a suit, perhaps.

At least the costume designer is trying to be creative-- I give points for that. I've heard that a lot of effort goes into creating signature dress styles for each of the characters, which I think is kind of cool. 

Anyway, it's more interesting than white sneakers, jeans, and REI polyester, which is what many people here in Seattle wear every day in order to "fit in".


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

"The thing around his neck"?! Have you been hanging out with my wife or something? As I mentioned earlier, she hates my ascots so much she won't use the word--she will say in disgust, "That thing around your neck"!


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## edward9 (May 8, 2009)

If you want to see this "Chuck Bass" guy wear a different ascot, go here and watch the last minute and a half of the clip (starting at 8:30).

The first thing the interviewers mention is the ascot.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Thought I would update this thread with a report as promised on the Country Ties silk/cotton day cravat that I ordered.

This cravat/ascot comes with a design featuring partridges on a "tweed" background. By tweed is meant a houndstooth and windowpane design. The partridges are naturally colored and surprisingly large, which I found a little distracting.

The cravat has a silk face and a plain green cotton backing. It requires a little care when tieing the cravat to make sure the backing isn't visible. The good part of this backing is that it gives the cravat a lot of "body"--it makes the cravat stay up and remain visible. Thus it seems less subject to sinking into near invisibility as all-silk cravats tend to do. On the downside, one loses that marvellously sensuous, caressing quality that one gets with an all-silk ascot that is much of the pleasure of wearing one of these garments.

It is by far the shortest ascot/cravat I have purchased in recent years. I thought this might be bothersome, but it proved to be of no practical consequence.

Bottom line: Not a bad value for the money at all, considering the relatively low price. I might get another one sometime.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*A modest proposal*

In order to create this from any 28" (a standard size for square scarves) scarf, one only need fold it diagonally to achieve a pretty credible Ascot-to-be. A heavy silk, such as a twill, would lend itself. You just have to decide how much pattern you can tolerate:icon_smile_big:


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