# I'm Throwing in the Towel



## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Topsider, EastVillageTrad, et al, where do I sign up? Is there an extra seat at the curmudgeons' table?

No more are the days that I help cultivate a modicum of Democracy on the forum. This forum no longer needs that. It needs the opposite. Until the current fashion cult and trolls are shed from the forum I shall be against them.

A note to those Trad fetishists who want to _be_ some new and hip Trad/Preppy:

There is a singular path to Trad. It is clothing. Your choice in doggie, or car, or wife, or bookshelf is not going to somehow alter your being or status. A Trad wears certain clothes. Period. The philosophical and historical considerations many of us share are secondary, are never fully agreed upon, and are interesting to occasionally discuss, but they will likewise not alter your being or status and are sickening when affected.

At its core American Trad is about wearing blazers and tweed odd coats, repp ties, OCBDs, khakis, sack suits, and loafers, and while many agree that other articles of clothing fall into Trad and that the style radiates out to a whole slew of clothing choices these are the basics. If you don't wear and enjoy all of them at least occasionally you probably aren't Trad. If you wear any of these so tight that if you were to put on two pounds you'd be suffocating you probably aren't Trad. If you're uncomfortable wearing these things around your bros and don't have the confidence to take occasional insults with grace you probably aren't Trad.

At best you're Trad-inspired, at worst some sort of Hipster Prep who will be wearing something entirely different in fewer than five years.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Martin Luther, eat your heart out!!

Trad; yer either wid it, or agin' it!!


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Well said & welcome aboard.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Whew! Quite the blast from you, Coleman. I'm sorry the forum has pushed you so far, but you have a point.

Perhaps a better concession might be to create an isolated "Is Blank Trad" forum we would never have to read. 

Be warned, trolls: if you have turned even Coleman against you, all your humanity is lost.


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

It is time to be intolerant of things besides intolerance. You weren't talking about me, right?


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Here, here. I'm probably too nice to join the curmudgeons' table, but can I buy you gentlemen a drink?


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

As somebody already said it,"Hear, Hear".

On a side note: I really hope that I'm not one of the people that Coleman was describing.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Now that you've got that off your chest, Coleman, and are doubtless feeling better, I hope you'll start posting on WAYW? again -- you've been missed there.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

ZachGranstrom said:


> As somebody already said it,"Hear, Hear".
> 
> On a side note: I really hope that I'm not one of the people that Coleman was describing.


I'm confident that you are not.


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

*What towels are Trad?*

I couldn't resist.

Seriously, even though I'm just a babe here, I've posted less recently because of the types of threads you mention. There's so much room under the umbrella here, but, really, things have gotten a little out of hand.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Coleman, I appreciate your sentiments. As I just noted elsewhere, "If your moral fiber and character is lacking no amount of natural fibers or natural shoulders can compensate."

To expand on that, if you're a college graduate and no one has yet taught you how to shine your shoes, put on pants with the correct length, wear a tie and shirt together that don't clash, shop for properly fitting underwear or the basics of hygiene, you're screwed. You can show up here and ask all the inane questions you want to (apparently without any kind of constraints from anyone) and put on your costume, but the world will still see you as a rube. Until your interior fibers are solid, no kind of clothing whatsoever will cover it up or make it handsome. 

Before you seek fashion advice, read Marcus Aurelius. Fix your spine. Study those who have come before and learn from them and try not to repeat their mistakes but make your place a better one for your having been there. After that, should you wish to stop making the giggling, cynical hucksters of ever-changing fashion rich at your own expense, there is a wealth of free advice and example here on how to do just that.

Read, study, contemplate, learn. Then have a bath. And only then, get dressed.

--Quay, Grand Lodge of the Curmudgeons, West Coast Hall, Table by the Window, second Gimlet in hand.


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## randomdude (Jun 4, 2007)

Coleman said:


> Topsider, EastVillageTrad, et al, where do I sign up? Is there an extra seat at the curmudgeons' table?
> 
> No more are the days that I help cultivate a modicum of Democracy on the forum. This forum no longer needs that. It needs the opposite. Until the current fashion cult and trolls are shed from the forum I shall be against them.
> 
> ...


Coleman you've only been posting for a year. You're too young to be through with this forum.


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## tsweetland (Oct 2, 2006)

Coleman said:


> Topsider, EastVillageTrad, et al, where do I sign up? Is there an extra seat at the curmudgeons' table?
> 
> No more are the days that I help cultivate a modicum of Democracy on the forum. This forum no longer needs that. It needs the opposite. Until the current fashion cult and trolls are shed from the forum I shall be against them.
> 
> ...


People's ability to take themselves so seriously regarding the most insignificant of topics never ceases to amaze me...


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Well said Coleman. I could not agree more.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Ugh, this inevitably happens on every forum, and I'm not sure why. The old guard hates the new guard, people bicker, a few good members get frustrated and leave, 2 months go by, the forum rights itself, and we're all a few good members short for the effort. It's almost always at the start of summer, as well (school correlation? People in parts of the country without commonplace a/c getting bitter? I don't know).

I know that this forum has 2 things going for it that will continue to draw me back, the exchange and the WAYW, but short of that, I feel that my posting will start to wane for the summer months, at least. No loss, I'm a new member and don't feel like I'm knowledgeable to contribute all that much. Losing some of yall that have already posted in this thread would be a noticeable loss, and I hope it doesn't occur. But for now, it's hard to even read half the front page because of the in-fighting. 

Good luck on this yall, I suggest 1) waiting out the end of the early summer months before leaving and 2) simply not clicking on the inane threads. This same thing is happening on my other favorite forum, orangebloods, though about conference expansion (UT sports related), and it's leaving a bad taste in my mouth all around.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Just to be clear, it appears Coleman is expressing his desire to be through with these threads, not the forum itself.

Right? Because to lose you over this one issue would be a serious loss. We need our better commentators to flavor the forum.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

I didn't really want to comment on this thread; I just wanted to let it be, but, to clarify, I'm not going anywhere. I'm just not going to be the seemingly eternally optimistic and always welcoming Coleman I once was.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

As a clothing forum, I think we'd all prefer to see more threads on topics such as

The Hook Vent: Equestrian origin or just good sense?
Lapped Seams: Strength or Honor?
2B sacks, or How I lost my Vestigial Button Hole
Good Bracing: Thurstons or G&Ts

In all seriousness, I welcome Coleman's stand. More talk of TNSIL clothes, less talk of lifestyle.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Glad to hear it Coleman. I for one would welcome a "Trad lifestyle" forum if it would wick away the "Is Noun Trad" threads.

Although to be fair, I have started a fair number in my day. Ahh youth!


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

I agree with these sentiments. The only way to combat the 'inmates taking over the asylum' is to continue to discuss legitimate topics...that is...clothing. I'm not going anywhere, but I reserve the right to roll my eyes when someone starts a 'tradliest ____' thread.

Danny


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

Well said, Coleman.

"Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all... Check your road and the nature of your battle."

Cards,

In the countless hours I've spent reading about Trad and tailoring, I haven't come across any satisfactory discussion on the hook vent.


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## chadwick (Apr 27, 2010)

You're right in everything you say, but this is all a bit dramatic for me lol.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Coleman said:


> At best you're Trad-inspired, at worst some sort of Hipster Prep who will be wearing something entirely different in fewer than five years.


Here, here young grasshopper. Well said.

BTW...once the winds of fashion change, the people just described (above) will be back to wearing black denim and Versace shirts faster than you can say William F. Buckley, Jr.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

AdamsSutherland said:


> Cards,
> 
> In the countless hours I've spent reading about Trad and tailoring, I haven't come across any satisfactory discussion on the hook vent.


Neither have I, which is why I mentioned it. Let me do a bit of research and I'll start a thread on the hook vent either tonight or tomorrow.


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

tsweetland said:


> People's ability to take themselves so seriously regarding the most insignificant of topics never ceases to amaze me...


True. As lamentable as some of these recent threads are, it's equally irksome when the sum of what some know is what they've gleaned from reading old posts.

I don't consider "trad" a dogma; an all-inclusive, rigid, confining code of life. I got a snarky ghey retort about preferring hems over cuffs, LMAO! I think "trad" is a bigger tent than so narrowly-defined above. Maybe not...


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Coleman said:


> I'm just not going to be the seemingly eternally optimistic and always welcoming Coleman I once was.


Hmm..."The West" wouldn't happen to be Arizona, would it? 

In all seriousness, I do agree with your description. I just hope inquiries about the traddest toothbrush wasn't what pushed you over the edge. :icon_saint7kg:


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

AdamsSutherland said:


> "Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all... Check your road and the nature of your battle."


Never compromise, change, or update your views, opinions, or tastes. The only pure stance is the extreme one. Keep an eye out for enemies, internal and external; deal with them harshly when found. Preach with the knowledge that you are right. Keep the light burning in the darkness.


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## Jughead (Feb 19, 2009)

Commies I tell ya, they're commies.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

Coleman said:


> There is a singular path to Trad. It is clothing. Your choice in doggie, or car, or wife, or bookshelf is not going to somehow alter your being or status. A Trad wears certain clothes. Period. The philosophical and historical considerations many of us share are secondary, are never fully agreed upon, and are interesting to occasionally discuss, but they will likewise not alter your being or status and are sickening when affected.
> 
> At its core American Trad is about wearing blazers and tweed odd coats, repp ties, OCBDs, khakis, sack suits, and loafers, and while many agree that other articles of clothing fall into Trad and that the style radiates out to a whole slew of clothing choices these are the basics. If you don't wear and enjoy all of them at least occasionally you probably aren't Trad. If you wear any of these so tight that if you were to put on two pounds you'd be suffocating you probably aren't Trad. If you're uncomfortable wearing these things around your bros and don't have the confidence to take occasional insults with grace you probably aren't Trad.


Welcome. Have a seat right over there, next to Coolidge's old spot.


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

Well, I was gonna go and make a thread about how Juggalos could be considered Trad, but I guess the water's not warm enough for it now :icon_smile_big:


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Ooooh, vestigal buttonholes! 

Would you gentlemen like some tea... poured from a dome-like teapot? I'll buy that one!


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Coleman,

I agree with you, and respect you (a first ballot WAYWN HoFer) but don't really see how this is any better:



Coleman said:


> At its core American Trad is about wearing blazers and tweed odd coats, repp ties, OCBDs, khakis, sack suits, and loafers, and while many agree that other articles of clothing fall into Trad and that the style radiates out to a whole slew of clothing choices these are the basics. If you don't wear and enjoy all of them at least occasionally you probably aren't Trad. If you wear any of these so tight that if you were to put on two pounds you'd be suffocating you probably aren't Trad. If you're uncomfortable wearing these things around your bros and don't have the confidence to take occasional insults with grace you probably aren't Trad.
> 
> At best you're Trad-inspired, at worst some sort of Hipster Prep who will be wearing something entirely different in fewer than five years.


Are you (who I remember writing an equally silly, but entertaining "philosophy of trad" thread), upset at the endless, pointless trad introspection? or that the simple "tradiest ___' threads aren't taking it serious enough?

If it's the former then I agree, frankly I've reached the point where all the stuff about defining "trad or discussing doesn't interest me,
Whether it's about which dog/babyname/towel/method of contraception is most trad, or defining whatever your view of what trad clothing is or isn't (even if it's too tight).

Just ignore the annoying "trad" threads. Contrary to the idiom, it's remarkably easy to judge a thread by it's title.

I do it, if it means that I only read WAYWN, aquisitions and ebay/exchange for a few days so what?


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

LOL! Yes, I did write a silly introspection thread, one that I wouldn't write today or at least not in the same manner. 

To answer your question, a convergence of an abundance of both types of threads has lead to my being grumpy, but it is certainly primarily the former.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You're too young (and new a poster) to get so discouraged already! I suppose I'm not a full trad at all, but this isn't news to any of the regulars who've seen what I wear. I see it as a style to get some inspiration from.

Mad Hatter: If you're going to use "gay" in that way (which is, at best, juvenile) at least spell it correctly.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

EastVillageTrad said:


> Well said & welcome aboard.


Moved and seconded.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Coleman, I heartily agree with everything you've said. This whole cycle of descent into "Tradliest XYZ?" madness has happened at least a couple times before in the six years or so I've been around here. It always corrects itself. The silly ones either go away or grow up.


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## dustindeed (Nov 17, 2006)

there's a 3-step process here: first, start posting at fnb about how foolish this site is. then when you realize that fnb is foolish, start your own message board and handpick only your favorite posters to join. then when you realize that's not only foolish but a waster of time, come back here and poo all over every thread. then realize that you're the fool.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I realize upon re-reading my post that I sound like a jerk.

I agree with Coleman, I guess I just feel that these type of posts (the lame ones) have been around a while, and the best tactic might be to just ignore them.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

First of all, I'm not trad; whatever that is. I read this forum and occasionally post here, but I don't subscribe to this trad lifestyle. 

Yes, my navy blazer is my heaviest use jacket, but all four of them are darted. And I do have ten pairs of khaki pants, but I prefer jeans. As for the twelve OCBDs, I don't wear ties with them very often. I do have two pairs of boat shoes in addition to a pair of Bean blucher mocs on order; however I like my Rockport walkers. Like I said, I really don't subscribe to this trad thing at all, but I hope that it's OK if I still read and post here on occasion.

Cruiser


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

Ummm. . . sure. Why wouldn't it be okay? As long as it's worth the while. . . no one here is baptized "trad" last time I checked. Maybe Episcopalian. . .


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## crohnsappleadams (Nov 30, 2009)

My Pet said:


> Well, I was gonna go and make a thread about how Juggalos could be considered Trad, but I guess the water's not warm enough for it now :icon_smile_big:


 I laughed.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

tsweetland said:


> People's ability to take themselves so seriously regarding the most insignificant of topics never ceases to amaze me...


I'm with you there. Well said.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Coleman said:


> There is a singular path to Trad. It is clothing. Your choice in doggie, or car, or wife, or bookshelf is not going to somehow alter your being or status. A Trad wears certain clothes. Period. The philosophical and historical considerations many of us share are secondary, are never fully agreed upon, and are interesting to occasionally discuss, but they will likewise not alter your being or status and are sickening when affected.


This however I think is well said.


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## jamz (Mar 6, 2010)

Beefeater said:


> Ummm. . . sure. Why wouldn't it be okay? As long as it's worth the while. . . no one here is baptized "trad" last time I checked. Maybe Episcopalian. . .


Is that the tradliest faith?

Joking, of course. Even as a new member I'm astonished that people confuse a clothing style with a life style, and discuss lifestyle issues on a clothing section of a clothing forum.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

While I'm still a relative noob here, and while I also find the "is _____ trad" threads a little tedious at times, I can't see what the fuss is about. It seems to me that that reason that people participate in this site is two-fold: reference and camaraderie. It would seem that both could benefit from a diverse discussion of subjects.

At the end of the day the clothes are worn by _people_ and we all certainly hope that we are more than the sum total of what's in our extensive underground network of cedar dressing cabinets. I don't think it's a stretch to occasionally discuss what other things we might have in common and what formed all the dimensions of our personalities and lead us to dress this way in a time and place where it may not be very common to do so.

Not to mention the fact that if we just discussed clothes, and only the clothes safely within the canon, the board would be a single locked thread with the names of some OCBDs, sack jackets, and LWBs.

Just my two cents. (indian head pennies, so: trad)


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## richard d. (Mar 17, 2010)

Coleman...Funny, I was thinking some of your same thoughts on the way in to work this morning. It's what you're made of, what's in your blood I guess. You said it best, and the best I can add to that is a big AMEN! In fact, I'll toast your thoughts with a martini (even though it's early)...and on that 2nd martini, I'll be toasting that you're not leaving us!!! Now give me a reason for that 3rd martini...perhaps I should wait til after work on that one, huh? You're a great guy Coleman...just don't go anywhere. Richard d.


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## raincoat (Oct 31, 2009)

Coleman said:


> There is a singular path to Trad. It is clothing. Your choice in doggie, or car, or wife, or *bookshelf* is not going to somehow alter your being or status.


Found myself blushing at this bit. Sorry?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Indeed, the OP's core suggestion has crossed my mind, on an increasingly frequent basis lately but, to be applied on a more inclusive basis! :crazy:


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> Like I said, I really don't subscribe to this trad thing at all, but I hope that it's OK if I still read and post here on occasion.Cruiser


Absolutely, your failure to do so would be a sure sign that the apocolypse is upon us.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

tsweetland said:


> People's ability to take themselves so seriously regarding the most insignificant of topics never ceases to amaze me...


What's even more interesting and certainly more revealing is the notion that one person can decide for another what should be significant or insignificant and then proceed to publicly proclaim their judgment.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

"The one thing more difficult than following a regimen is not imposing it on others." -- Marcel Proust

I know this quote because I read it in this week's _The Week_ magazine.

Actually around these parts I don't notice many posters trying to impose anything on others. Instead I see:

1. Poster asks whether a boneheadedly obvious non-trad (or totally irrelevant and silly) thing is trad
2. Somebody says no, it's not trad
3. Get worked up about this. Trads are such jerks!
4. Continue to waste your life posting in a forum of narrow minded a-holes. Tell them "On puh-leaze" and insert eye rolling faces


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

I'll see your cribbed Proust and raise you a bastardized Twain paraphrase:

Experience has not taught me very much; still it has taught me that it is not wise to criticize a piece of clothing except to an enemy of the person wearing it; then, if you praise it, that enemy admires you for your honesty, and if you condemn it he admires you for your sound judgment.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

My biggest problem: I have trouble telling the difference between a troll and a nitwit. If some of you men who have the knack for doing this would speak up earlier in threads, I might not feel like such a sucker.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> My biggest problem: I have trouble telling the difference between a troll and a nitwit. If some of you men who have the knack for doing this would speak up earlier in threads, I might not feel like such a sucker.


In that case, let me give you this advice: ignore 'oldschoolcharm'. I'm almost sure of it after the Lacoste thread


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

There have been some good objections made to my initial post coming from posters who I respect, and rather than take them on one-by-one I'd like to respond to them as a whole with some admissions. 

Such admissions will weaken my OP, but, oh well; it's time I suppose. They shouldn't be shocking. In fact they should generally be assumed of all posters to internet forums.

1. I'm prone to hyperbole. At times it is the only way to get a point across, and it is a helluva lot funnier.

2. I'm not 100% truthful and am especially not when I'm exaggerating my case. Black-and-white is rarely the truth.

3. I use the rhetoric I think will reach my audience the most easily even when it's not entirely what I believe. In this case I hoped to reach the bozos hijacking the forum quickly and in a way they'd understand.

4. I enjoy being a sort of fool. Conscious irrationality can be fun and meaningful. To equate irrationality with wrong in all cases is to do one's intellect a disservice.

5. I'm rarely so serious as I might sound. In such cases I am generally both serious and laughing at my own seriousness. 

In short take most everything I say with a grain of salt.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> My biggest problem: I have trouble telling the difference between a troll and a nitwit. If some of you men who have the knack for doing this would speak up earlier in threads, I might not feel like such a sucker.





hookem12387 said:


> In that case, let me give you this advice: ignore 'oldschoolcharm'. I'm almost sure of it after the Lacoste thread


+1, hookem. RichardSergeant and gardel too.

Also, I think a Trad Troll should be called a Trod (and it rhymes with toad).


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Coleman said:


> 3. I use the rhetoric I think will reach my audience the most easily even when it's not entirely what I believe. In this case I hoped to reach the bozos hijacking the forum quickly and in a way they'd understand.


How delightfully appropriate Coleman! You play Anselm to their Bozo. Perhaps the next epic from Coleman's Press: "Cur H o m o Trad"!

Edit: Okay, seriously, I can't even use Latin on the Trad forum! Ludicrous!


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Coleman,

Thanks for this post, you have said what I have been thinking for about the last month. Despite my aggravation with the trods, I haven't said anything (my wife would tell you this is a first), but haven't posted much recently because of it. Glad to hear you are not leaving! Please save me a seat at the next curmudgeon's banquet.


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

Pink and Green said:


> How delightfully appropriate Coleman! You play Anselm to their Bozo. Perhaps the next epic from Coleman's Press: "Cur H o m o Trad"!
> 
> Edit: Okay, seriously, I can't even use Latin on the Trad forum! Ludicrous!


Try ancient Greek, I'm sure you learned it in seminary!


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

chacend = chastened ?:idea:


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Trod... Good term.:icon_smile_big:


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> chacend = chastened ?:idea:


No, although I probably need to be! It's actually my first born's given name followed by the initials of my college football rooting interest (no actual affiliation, I'm still just an uneducated US Navy Mustang Officer).


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> My biggest problem: I have trouble telling the difference between a troll and a nitwit. If some of you men who have the knack for doing this would speak up earlier in threads, I might not feel like such a sucker.


You know, that's the funny thing: I didn't really read a lot of these (save the man bag thing) as trolls, but just an unusually high occurrence of dim witted questions from green-horns who hadn't earned their surcingle belts yet. I've taken for granted how little trolling seems to occur on these boards and since the questions simply seemed stupid rather than inflammatory I just shrugged it off.


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## gardel (Jul 23, 2008)

Coleman said:


> Topsider, EastVillageTrad, et al, where do I sign up? Is there an extra seat at the curmudgeons' table?
> 
> No more are the days that I help cultivate a modicum of Democracy on the forum. This forum no longer needs that. It needs the opposite. Until the current fashion cult and trolls are shed from the forum I shall be against them.
> 
> ...


Well done, Coleman.


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

gardel said:


> Well done, Coleman.


Unbeknownst to himself, the first Trod chimes in!


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## gardel (Jul 23, 2008)

chacend said:


> Unbeknownst to himself, the first Trod chimes in!


I'm not a Trad so Trod (Trad + troll) would not be the appropriate term.


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

gardel said:


> I'm not a Trad so Trod (Trad + troll) would not be the appropriate term.


Thanks for the clarification, I guess it would just be Troll. Regardless, please just go away!!


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

chacend said:


> Thanks for the clarification, I guess it would just be Troll. Regardless, please just go away!!


:icon_smile_big:


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## gardel (Jul 23, 2008)

Long live Ivy. Thank you all.


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## RichardSergeant (Apr 23, 2010)

gardel said:


> Long live Ivy. Thank you all.


Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Oh wait, I'm going with you. I'm no Russell Street.


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## KennethB (Jul 29, 2009)

My Pet said:


> Well, I was gonna go and make a thread about how Juggalos could be considered Trad, but I guess the water's not warm enough for it now :icon_smile_big:


F***G TRAD. HOW DOES IT WORK?

/end lame juggalo reference


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

RichardSergeant said:


> Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
> 
> Oh wait, I'm going with you. I'm no Russell Street.


You are certainly not.


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

LOL. Trod. :thumbs-up:


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## Mad Hatter (Jul 13, 2008)

Coleman said:


> There have been some good objections made to my initial post coming from posters who I respect, and rather than take them on one-by-one I'd like to respond to them as a whole with some admissions.
> 
> Such admissions will weaken my OP, but, oh well; it's time I suppose. They shouldn't be shocking. In fact they should generally be assumed of all posters to internet forums.
> 
> ...


I respect the concession. The thing is, "trad" is not a dogma to most, nor is there a airtight definition. Instead of capitulation to forum-jacking or dogpiling on some schmuck, look to the middle ground. Try and steer the offending thread into reason. Educate these newbies. Have moderators take a bit quicker action to move/lock threads. Grant the newbies some grace as was shown to you and other now prominent members or this forum will wither. I bet you'll win 'em over. A virtual handshake to all...


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Sensational! The outing of a troll in real time! And he admitted the jig was up, like a gentleman! But I suppose he'll soon be back, with a new identity....:crazy:


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Trip: I do think it's best to think well of our fellow men, particularly in relatively harmless situations, even if it means sometimes playing the fool.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Mad Hatter said:


> I respect the concession. The thing is, "trad" is not a dogma to most, nor is there a airtight definition. Instead of capitulation to forum-jacking or dogpiling on some schmuck, look to the middle ground. Try and steer the offending thread into reason. Educate these newbies. Have moderators take a bit quicker action to move/lock threads. Grant the newbies some grace as was shown to you and other now prominent members or this forum will wither. I bet you'll win 'em over. A virtual handshake to all...


I do appreciate a bit of noob babying. An unawareness of all the brands and terms takes a bit of time to rectify, even if you know most of them before ever visiting.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> Trip: I do think it's best to think well of our fellow men, particularly in relatively harmless situations, even if it means sometimes playing the fool.


I strongly agree. I'd hate to dig back through my oldest posts and see how dopey or troll-like I sounded. The benefit of the doubt and the genial tone makes these boards truly unique on the interwebs. I don't want that to change with drastic or reactionary anti trodding methods!


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Of course, by think well of our fellows, I mean that they're a little simple, not puerile, cynical, sardonic a-holes who think they're so smart.:icon_smile_big:


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Trip English said:


> I strongly agree. I'd hate to dig back through my oldest posts and see how dopey or troll-like I sounded. The benefit of the doubt and the genial tone makes these boards truly unique on the interwebs. I don't want that to change with drastic or reactionary anti trodding methods!


I likewise have made posts of idiocy (still do), and I appreciate the kindness I've been shown.

But (BUT!) at a certain point being reasonable is no longer reasonable. We've had what I take to be two admissions to blatant trolling in just this thread (and notice all of the recent inane posters we haven't called out as trolls; we are certainly still giving some the benefit of the doubt).


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

chacend said:


> No, although I probably need to be! It's actually my first born's given name followed by the initials of my college football rooting interest (no actual affiliation, I'm still just an uneducated US Navy Mustang Officer).


nephew,
my valuation of your abilities is a lot higher


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

mcarthur said:


> nephew,
> my valuation of your abilities is a lot higher


Uncle,

Thank you.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> Sensational! The outing of a troll in real time! And he admitted the jig was up, like a gentleman! But I suppose he'll soon be back, with a new identity....:crazy:


LOL, yes, I suspect trolls are often a bit like (NERD ALERT) Sand People, "they'll soon be back and in greater numbers."


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Too bad they aren't "easily frightened."  But they are "on the move"!

Ok, back to my cave. I forget I'm supposed to be working.


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## tsweetland (Oct 2, 2006)

Coleman said:


> LOL, yes, I suspect trolls are often a bit like (NERD ALERT) Sand People, "they'll soon be back and in greater numbers."


What are you still doing here? I thought you were "throwing in the towel?"


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

tsweetland said:


> What are you still doing here? I thought you were "throwing in the towel?"


I've been quite clear that I'm not going anywhere.

I'm throwing in the towel on being a nice guy. Perhaps a better title might have been I'm Throwing down the Gauntlet.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

or, F**k You!


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Yes! I'm throwing in the trowel! Right into the center of your soiled heart!


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm still shocked that I was able to slay two trolls with one pithy comment. At this rate we could be troll free by summer. Now, if more of those little buggers would show their faces!

Buy one get one free is definitely Trad.:icon_smile_big:


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

Coleman said:


> I've been quite clear that I'm not going anywhere.
> 
> I'm throwing in the towel on being a nice guy. Perhaps a better title might have been I'm Throwing down the Gauntlet.


nephew,
good for you. you have my full support


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

rambler, joeb, coleman and cend,
gentlemen welcome to the A team


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Beamish may in fact be "throwing . . . the trowel . . . (r)ight into the center of (my) soiled heart." Which, at this point, might be best.

You all realize I've gone mad, right?


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

I was translating rambler's quite able translation!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL. You 'Intellectual Trads' have got to be more graphic in your postings, if you wish us 'Hillbilly Trads' to be able to follow along!


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Coleman said:


> ...You all realize I've gone mad, right?


See my signature.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

You all realize I've gone mad, right?[/QUOTE]

"Great wits are sure to madness near allied" (Dryden, Pope, or somebody).


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## R0ME0 (Feb 10, 2010)

I wonder if this is the reason why Harris, rojo, and Horace don't post on here anymore or at least I never see them post on here anymore. I also miss A.Squire(did I get it right?) and the pictures he used to post. There were a lot of great posters back in the day that I rarely see post on here (2005-2006, I stopped coming for three years.). 

If I'm correct, I think, but not sure, Horace posts over at FilmNoirBuff. They got their own version of a trad forum over there. Ah, yes, and FilmNoirBuff was also a very interesting poster but he wasn't a trad. I think he grew up trad but later steered away.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

This forum seems to have become infected with a bunch of attention whores and self-appointed arbiters of the "true trad" (which, by the way, is impossible to define). This huffing and puffing and panicky, wild-eyed paranoia is ridiculous, but unfortunately nothing new. I've been posting here since February 2005 and I have witnessed three or four major freak-outs by regular members and barbarians-at-the-gate reactions against some sort of perceived slackening in standards or off-topic trolling (which you guys feed, instead of ignoring). I've learned to look beyond the shrill bleating and hand-wringing of the fundamentalists, although I admit at times it's hard to do that. We all start out a bit over-keen, but some of us quickly become more restrained and we certainly don't indulge in "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" posts. What a shame we can't just trade product information and reviews instead of debating groundless social, political, and cultural topics - and I'm talking about you Young Turks too, not just the maybe-trolls. It's just clothing and footwear.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

^A very nice post, Doctor Damage.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

I hate those people who take exception to things and get all worked up!! Damn them! Why can't they be more &@$(&% restrained??


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

^LOL, a likewise great rebuttal.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

A last note on my OP and then I've got to quit this thread.

It is a contradiction. Just like Dr. Watson's OP in Is it Trad to be Trad it says that Trad both _is_ and _isn't_ (we really said the same thing, he just did so more directly).

However, in my opinion at this time, I think it's still approximately true. That's the hard part, truths are generally contradictions. Nothing is black and white, and the final step in understanding a concept is still being able to do so despite seeing it as a contradiction.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Joe Beamish said:


> I hate those people who take exception to things and get all worked up!! Damn them! Why can't they be more &@$(&% restrained??


It's like the first scene in Arrested Development where Lucille sees a bunch of gay protesters on a boat and remarks "They're so flamboyant!!! It just makes me want to set myself ON FIRE!!!"


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## crohnsappleadams (Nov 30, 2009)

KennethB said:


> F***G TRAD. HOW DOES IT WORK?
> 
> /end lame juggalo reference


Brilliant.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Coleman said:


> Your choice in doggie, or car, or wife, or bookshelf is not going to somehow alter your being or status.


Sorry, Mr. Coleman, they are.


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