# First tux, black or midnight blue?



## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

Also posted on SF:

Forgive me for the use of the word "tux", but I cannot recall what the official term we've come up with was; I think I was reprimanded for using the phrase "dinner suit". Anyway, I've been informed that I can expect several black tie events next year, and during each subsequent year of medical school, and some here and elsewhere have suggested I buy rather than rent. I welcome the opportunity to buy a tux, but I'm curious what you would do for your first. I have decided on a single button peaked lapel (if only I liked shawl collar there is an awesome Brioni on Ebay) and I'm probably going to go with Zegna. Would you purchase a black or midnight blue tux? I am sort of thinking black for the first one, and then if I choose to buy another tux in ten years I'll get a midnight blue one. Also, do I need to purchase the waistcoat at the same time and what are the rules for the fabric of the waistcoat? I'm going to go with the three button (do you still leave the lower button unbuttoned on this style?). Do you think I should also buy a cummerbund? If so, what are the rules for the fabric of the cummerbund. I'm obviously going to go with black/midnight blue vest/cummerbund instead of some horrid colorful pattern. Thanks for your help.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

1)The Oxford English Dictionary notes "tuxedo" as being older than "dinner jacket." Personally, I doubt my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather would have fought in the Revolution if he had wanted me to use the British terminology.

2)I would agree that black is probably better for a first tuxedo. As the Black Tie Guide puts it, "Keep in mind that while you can wear the same classic black tuxedo dozens of times without anyone knowing whether you have one or a dozen of them, a tuxedo with even a hint of color will stand out as being your only dinner suit."

3)All three buttons on the evening waistcoat/vest are buttoned.

4)The cummerbund fabric, as I remember, matches the lapel fabric--satin for satin, grosgrain for grosgrain.

And, on the off-chance you haven't yet discovered the Black Tie Guide:
https://www.blacktieguide.com/

It looks like a good plan. Me, I have a great fondness for the shawl collar, but it is indeed the hardest lapel to do well.


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## shirtguy (Oct 12, 2006)

midnight blue since a black one in the light look green


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

I think the shawl collar looks best on a white dinner jacket, but I am as far from an expert on this topic as you can get.


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## GrumF14 (Aug 25, 2008)

I have to agree. The shawl collar looks best (and perhaps is your only single-breasted option) on a white dinner jacket. Some persons, George Clooney included, look very stylish and classic in a black shawl collar dinner jacket, but if nothing else, go with peak lapels, and in black instead of midnight blue. There are a growing number of notch lapels (someone elsewhere had mentioned in the latest James Bond film), but I'd leave them to suits and blazers. Make your DJ stand out-- especially if you find everyone else in notch lapels!


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

For the first fifteen of my tuxedo wearing years, I wore "off the rack" ex-rental tuxedos that were all black. My first was a double breasted peak lapel, then two shawl lapels.

Last year, I ordered an MTM tuxedo in midnight blue with black grosgrain peak lapels.

I love it.


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## Terpoxon (Sep 28, 2006)

Midnight blue. It will be virtually indistinguishable from black except under artificial light, then it will look blacker than black.


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## &Son (Feb 18, 2008)

My vote would be black but then again, so is my dinner jacket.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

I dislike the blue of midnight blue DJs in natural light so would advise them only as a second tux. If you're in the USA, you end up wearing tuxes to all sorts of unnatural daytime events like weddings, so this matters. And in the UK, summertime evening events start in natural light, so you have the same problem. However, a midnight blue tux for winter black tie events is a good second choice, esp if in a different style to your first tux, for variety.

Personally, I also much prefer the feel of wearing a low-cut black waiscoat to a cummerbund but this is very much personal choice.


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## caveman42 (Sep 16, 2008)

Go for black. Play it safe.


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## ChicagoMediaMan-27 (Feb 23, 2008)

If you are only going to have 1, then I would go with black.


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

Black, please.

Also, I love the shawl collars, in black or 'white' (but especially 'white'). Someone mentioned Clooney as being able to wear them. I can think of lots of others I guess. I always thought they were Sinatras best option too.


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## GrumF14 (Aug 25, 2008)

... maybe for Sinatra or Clooney, it's a gravitas thing or something that comes with age? I don't think I'd be able to pull off a shawl collar at 22.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

If you have to ask this question, you better just stick with regular black


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

shirtguy said:


> midnight blue since a black one in the light look green


Yes, but midnight blue looks blue in light


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## Terpoxon (Sep 28, 2006)

My brother recently ordered a suit (a Baroni from Jeff on Ebay) and it was meant to be a very dark blue. When it arrived he swore it was black. I looked at it and thought it was black as well. We put it side by side with my tux and only then could we tell for sure that it was blue. In most circumstances midnight blue will look like black. But, as most people have said, if this is the only one you'll have and you're more comfortable with black, then get black.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Terpoxon said:


> My brother recently ordered a suit (a Baroni from Jeff on Ebay) and it was meant to be a very dark blue. When it arrived he swore it was black. I looked at it and thought it was black as well. We put it side by side with my tux and only then could we tell for sure that it was blue. In most circumstances midnight blue will look like black. But, as most people have said, if this is the only one you'll have and you're more comfortable with black, then get black.


Changed your mind, I see


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Terpoxon said:


> My brother recently ordered a suit (a Baroni from Jeff on Ebay) and it was meant to be a very dark blue. When it arrived he swore it was black. I looked at it and thought it was black as well. We put it side by side with my tux and only then could we tell for sure that it was blue. In most circumstances midnight blue will look like black. But, as most people have said, if this is the only one you'll have and you're more comfortable with black, then get black.


I had a horrible experience with Jeff and Baroni and will not recommend him.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

amplifiedheat said:


> 1)The Oxford English Dictionary notes "tuxedo" as being older than "dinner jacket."


Indeed, the term "dinner jacket" only came to be used after 1898. Prior to that it was known in England as "dress lounge".


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

hopkins_student said:


> I think I was reprimanded for using the phrase "dinner suit".


It's time we laid that one to rest. I have also seen the phrase "dinner suit" in a window in Savile Row.

There is also this from Piccadilly, 1937:










Note the recommendation to own a "dinner suit" and a "dress suit".


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## Terpoxon (Sep 28, 2006)

Scoundrel said:


> Changed your mind, I see


If it were me, I'd get midnight blue. The board seems to be generally giving the advice for black. It doesn't really matter to me what the OP gets. Like I said, if he feels "safer" with black, he should get black. Ultimately he has to be able to wear it confidently, whether its black, blue or pink.


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## Terpoxon (Sep 28, 2006)

hockeyinsider said:


> I had a horrible experience with Jeff and Baroni and will not recommend him.


I've dealt with Jeff many times, and his customer service is excellent. He is very friendly, efficient and helpful. Many others on this site have had the same experience with him. He is very fast with his service and communication and he generally has a good policy on returns and exchanges. I'd be curious to hear about the nature of your bad experience.


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Terpoxon said:


> If it were me, I'd get midnight blue. The board seems to be generally giving the advice for black. It doesn't really matter to me what the OP gets. Like I said, if he feels "safer" with black, he should get black. Ultimately he has to be able to wear it confidently, whether its black, blue or pink.


Oh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

If I owned only one dinner jacket it would be midnight blue and be a peak lapeled DB. Blue looks better than black at events that begin while the sun is still shining, which is probably why the Prince of Wales wears his blue one under those circumstances.

Blue or black, a cummerbund should be black and so should your tie and lapel facings. 

You can choose to get a ditto waistcoat when you buy your jacket but it's not necessary, especially if you get a DB. You can obtain a silk one later.


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## Blackl3232 (Aug 23, 2008)

I'd get midnight blue with a white pique waistcoast and black cummerbund that matches the lapels.


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## ChriO (Feb 23, 2006)

It's been almost 3.5 years since you pondered colour choices. What did you buy, hopkins_student? :icon_smile:


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Terpoxon said:


> I've dealt with Jeff many times, and his customer service is excellent. He is very friendly, efficient and helpful. Many others on this site have had the same experience with him. He is very fast with his service and communication and he generally has a good policy on returns and exchanges. I'd be curious to hear about the nature of your bad experience.


Search for a thread about two weeks ago.


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

ChriO said:


> It's been almost 3.5 years since you pondered colour choices. What did you buy, hopkins_student? :icon_smile:


I hate it when that happens! Hoodwinked again.


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## scubasteve (Aug 20, 2008)

ChriO said:


> It's been almost 3.5 years since you pondered colour choices. What did you buy, hopkins_student? :icon_smile:


he hasn't bought one yet because he's been waiting all this time to get a reply


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## omanae (Aug 19, 2008)

I personally think if your going to get a 3 button front notch lapels are the most appropriate match. That said I'm not a big fan of a 3 button front or notch lapels on a dinner jacket, I just feel that with the higher stanch of a 3 button jacket a peak lapel often projects itself too far at too steep of an angle and looks like it was made 10 years ago. The notch will not as extend as far and will not seem as disproportionately dramatic. With the lower stance and longer lapel line of a one or two button jacket a peak looks more graceful and formal to me. The rest of the advice seems comprehensive.


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