# Share your thoughts on college



## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

Perhaps sadly, the crazy college admissions game now demands that 9th graders plan their studies with an eye toward where they will attend college. For example, admission at a highly selective liberal arts college means taking foreign language four years, etc., so we've begun planning now.

While I'm really asking about which college might be best for Miss Checks, I'd welcome your random thoughts on college.

FWIW, she's interested in writing/English/social studies (A-plus "gifted" in those subjects). She's not a great math/science student ("B to B-plus"). She wants to perform in a string ensemble and theater, but won't major in those. Of course, she has great style.

Geography/size of school are open. I'd prefer a small liberal arts college, Mother Checks is thinking that a big state university (Michigan, Illinois) would be better.

She is politically on the left, but would be put off by crazy campuses like Wesleyan.

Appreciate your thoughts.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

IMO Miss Cheeks should just work hard in highschool and pursue as many interests as she likes, all while staying out of trouble.

One thing to consider - top schools don't need to make exceptions for poor subjects. There is not reason for them to take a student with A's in certain subjects and B's in other subjects if there is another student with A's in everything (all other things being equal). Tell your daughter to become great in math/science.

I should also add that the reason I don't believe focusing on certain colleges at this point makes sense is because there are too many variables. Over the next four years your daughter could develop a love of business (Wharton, language (Middlebury), government (Georgetown), economics (U of Chicago) or become a very strong student overall (Harvard).


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## ChubbyTiger (Mar 10, 2005)

I'd aim for a small liberal arts school, personally. Big colleges can be fun, but there isn't the support system there which can intervene if a student starts to head down the wrong path, academically. I am also a big fan of single-sex schools. I attended one (alas, all men). Especially for girls, they seem to be effective in allowing for more personal growth than co-ed schools. Just my $0.02.

I'm sure that some of the other professorial types around here will pipe up eventually. Also, I'll avoid plugging my own employer. 

CT

Fabricati diem, pvnc. (loose translation, To Serve and Protect) -- Sign above the door of the City Watch House, Ankh-Morpork.


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

> quote:
> FWIW, she's interested in writing/English/social studies (A-plus "gifted" in those subjects). She's not a great math/science student ("B to B-plus").


I met this description almost exactly and have been quite satisfied with my decision to attend Haverford College. I work in admissions there now, (or will resume doing so when I return from this Haverford subsidized year in the UK,) and have seen how much care and effort they put into each application. The nice thing about applying to a small liberal arts college instead of a large state school that determines acceptance based on a formula, is that the small colleges can put greater weight on the personal aspects and build a class that really fits the personality of the school. I'd be happy to give you an insiders view of Haverford by e-mail.

-----------------------------------
"It is an old trick. The playgoer who does not like dirty plays is denounced as a prude; the music-lover who resents cacophony is told he is a pedant; and in all these matters the final crushing blow administered to the man of discrimination is the ascription to him of a hidebound prejudice against things that are new because they are new." -Royal Cortissoz


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by pleasehelp_
> 
> IMO Miss Cheeks should just work hard in highschool and pursue as many interests as she likes, all while staying out of trouble.
> 
> ...


She isn't doing any of the planning or worrying, that's my job. I've always told her that her job is to be a great student.

As to your second point, sadly, the admissions requirements for some schools require planning now; it's too late to wait until sophomore year to find out you need four years of foreign language.

I'm not worried about Harvard, I was really looking more at the style or type of school. Of course, I'm also interested in particular schools if AAAC members have any particular experience. I've not travelled widely and had never heard of Sewannee or Denison before I joined AAAC, so I appreciate any schools members might discuss by name as well.


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## Lord Foppington (Feb 1, 2005)

It's fine to think about taking foreign languages early and stuff like that. That's good for her, even if she decides to become a master auto mechanic. What I worry about is parents who pay to have their kids drilled on Saturday afternoons at places like Score! and Sylvan so that they can get into a good college. Sure, life is competitive. But many of the kids I see (I work at a small fancy liberal arts college) are nervous wrecks by the time they get here.

There are plenty of fine institutions out there who'll take someone who doesn't absolutely excel at everything. Maybe not the absolutely top ones, though even there you may be surprised. But I've pulled duty in Admissions here, and I'm always fighting to admit kids who genuinely love and excel at one thing--maybe they've done something extraordinary, like composed a symphony, or written a great play--instead of the horribly "well-rounded" freaks that the professional admissions people tend to favor. ("I love absolutely everything! I was in nine clubs, helped the homeless, organized the prom, designed a new wing of the school's main building, etc.") 

So I'd agree with the thought above that liberal arts colleges have more leeway to accept interesting students instead of ones whov'e driven themselves insane for years to cover all the bases.

Then again, I went to big universities for undergrad and (of course) grad school and would never have been happy at a little liberal arts college. So she should also think about what kind of experience she wants.



Stap my vitals!


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

I have a slightly diferent perspective from most. 

I didn't go to college at 18 - I went, when I was already working, and was about 25, part time. I streched it out over years, and still have a little course work left to finish. 

frankly, I did it this way for my own reasons, and I wouldn't recomend it to anybody else. what I can say is that, in the business world, people seem to group education in 3 piles - top schools (ivy and a few others), all the other schools, and not having a degree. 

it seems that if you want to be a doctor, a lawyer, an accountant, in finance and possibly some types of engineers, graduating from the first group of schools will bring you a hell of alot of money. aside from that, it doesn't really matter. 

I know a lot of people, who don't make a lot of money, who are very happy with what they do, and work in fields that are basically academic - proffesors, curators, in the art world, publishing. this can be difficult to swing for men, sometimes, but women seem to do this very comfortably. if you don't want to live in one of the expensive parts of the country, you can live pretty well, in any event.

and here is my point - you can't get these years, from 18-2? back. unless she really want to be a lawyer/doctor/etc. she should do what she will enjoy (within reason). I have a few friends who loved being in a big school, and several who really loved being in a small liberal arts school. the nicest schools that I have seen have been the small liberal arts ones, but I guess it really depends on what she likes. 

I would also say, that if she does come to you with a some what crazy plan - year abroad, art school, etc - give it thought before shoting it down. it is hard to really waste a year before you are thirty.


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## romafan (Apr 29, 2005)

GT's points are well taken.

Some very good mid-west small liberal art colleges: Oberlin, Carlton, Grinell (sp?)


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

I (Princeton '02) will start with shooting down the idea that top schools require planning from 9th grade and 4 years of language plus whatever other nutty things people put their kids through. I had an average high school with good grades and used one SAT prep book. French for 2 years and one AP test (Chemistry). I *think* that showing passion for a few things and interest in a good range of others is what makes kids stand out nowadays. I was passionate about musical pageantry (one time, at band camp...) and my teacher recs were very personal. Leadership is important. Schools choose kids who they think will be the best graduates rather than the best student. After all, you're a student for 4 years but an alumn forever.

Junior year of college or so I was finally able to admit to myself that I wasn't ready. Wasn't ready to think about the real world and hadn't been ready to start college. At the time I wished I had taken a year off for travel and work. I encouraged my sister (Temple '08) to take some time off; I think she needed it even more than I did. But my family is not interested in bucking the conveyor belt educational system. If appropriate, you might want to let Miss Checks know that you'll support non-traditional pursuits. It seems kids aren't willing to propose them to their parents because they're so sure they'll be shot down.

Tom


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> 
> For example, admission at a highly selective liberal arts college means taking foreign language four years, etc., so we've begun planning now.


I thought four years of foreign languages was at least standard for every high school.

My school district did six years (starting with 7th grade).


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by NoVaguy_
> 
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Sadly, no. In the state of Checksville, there is a push on to make every kid into a math or science whiz. Pres. Bush recently made the same pitch. Because of new requirements in those areas, something that she loves to do will get squeezed out. The trend right now is to set aside foreign language, which I think is nuts.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by globetrotter_
> 
> I have a slightly diferent perspective from most.
> 
> ...


I regard required school as K-16. Just a prejudice of mine. Maybe if she gets a lead in Harry Potter 9 I'd think about a year off, but otherwise not. I think a year abroad would be great, but only while she's enrolled.

Like you, I did much of undergrad part-time, paying my own way. It was a mess, and I got next to nothing from it.


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

Out of curiousity, what schools require planning from 9th grade? Between my family, friends and my own experience, I think I have been exposed to most of the good schools and I can't think of any that had too many rigid requirements for admission (in terms of required classes). Granted, most of my exposure is from several years ago.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Lord Foppington_
> 
> It's fine to think about taking foreign languages early and stuff like that. That's good for her, even if she decides to become a master auto mechanic. What I worry about is parents who pay to have their kids drilled on Saturday afternoons at places like Score! and Sylvan so that they can get into a good college. Sure, life is competitive. But many of the kids I see (I work at a small fancy liberal arts college) are nervous wrecks by the time they get here.
> 
> ...


She's a pretty balanced, mature kid. The work ethic at her (excellent) high school is strong, but not insane. The bulk of the strong kids will go to Big Ten schools, with a handful to the Ivy, Duke, Georgetown set. Almost all will go to some 4-year school. She's already taken the SAT twice (in a TAG program) and she just regards it as a normal thing, and doesn't stress. She'll have test prep when the time comes, but I've insulated her from worrying about more than simply doing her best. I will push for things I think are important (languages) and challenge her to take the tougher courses, but she's already on that track.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by pleasehelp_
> 
> Out of curiousity, what schools require planning from 9th grade? Between my family, friends and my own experience, I think I have been exposed to most of the good schools and I can't think of any that had too many rigid requirements for admission (in terms of required classes). Granted, most of my exposure is from several years ago.


I just read a book called "The Gatekeepers" about admissions at Wesleyan. Less than four years of foreign language gets you a black mark. Most of the better liberal arts schools are looking for that, plus chem, bio, physics, and math through calculus. All want as many AP classes as you can take. In my district, students jump on that track in 7th and 8th grade.

From everything I've seen, rigor of curriculum is the top focus, or at least on a par with grades (and ahead of test scores and class rank). See the College Board website (school profiles) for that info.

Not so at the larger schools, which tend to use a "grades times test scores" index for the majority of decisions, despite what they claim.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> 
> Perhaps sadly, the crazy college admissions game now demands that 9th graders plan their studies with an eye toward where they will attend college. For example, admission at a highly selective liberal arts college means taking foreign language four years, etc., so we've begun planning now.
> 
> ...


Your daughter's interests and academic strengths sound a lot like mine at her age. I did go to Wesleyan, and it was a wonderful experience. Academically unimpeachable, socially cozy, lots of liberal humanities majors running around having a good old time.

And it wasn't SO crazy...sure, the president's office was firebombed, and there was a guns/drugs deal that ended in a murder, and students dousing themselves in red paint at the cafeteria to protest the war...

Okay, maybe it was crazy. Wouldn't trade a second of it, though.

PS

I did have 4 years of German, good test scores, and lots of AP credits. I went to a hardcore academic prep school, and am glad I did. The fact that I was one of a very small number applying from Kansas also probably helped.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Brownshoe_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It sounds like a wonderful school. She might be a little moderate for some of the extreme clubs, but when the time comes we're going to visit it.


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## jasonpraxis (Mar 29, 2005)

While there is nothing wrong with planning, one of my concerns regarding the state of college admissions is, as has been pointed out, an emphasis on "professionalization." The unfortunate idea that, coming out of high school, a student must have x years of this and that, x extra-curricular activities, x athletic experience, and so on, works well for administrations who want to bolster professional training in lucrative fields, but often to the detriment of the humanities and arts. [Rant over.]

I attended a small (unranked) liberal arts school for two years, then transferred to a medium-sized (third-tier) private university, where I earned my BA. I took my MA from a large (second-tier) public university. I am now in a PhD program at a medium-sized (first-tier) private university. In between degrees I've taken time off to work: an invaluable experience I cannot recommend strongly enough.

The best college for Miss Checks will be the one where she will do best: socially, academically, creatively, professionally. The transition from high school to college can be difficult.* I have found smaller schools or departments more sensitive to student needs, articulated or not, and more demanding. Also, smaller organizations require more work from their members to be successful.

If Miss Checks decides that an advanced or professional degree is in her future, she will very likely attend a large university located in a small range of major cities. But it sounds to me that she may do well to investigate the best small liberal arts colleges she can find, without limiting herself to geographic region. Feel free to e-mail me if I can be of any assistance.

*The New York Times runs a series on this transition in the Education and College sections. It includes stories with both happy and less-happy endings, and is worth reading.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

"You can make a big school small, but you can't make a small school big."

I went to a big school. There were times when I 'felt like a number' but once I had spent some time there I learned that it's really up to the student. 

You can sit in the back and never be noticed in the class of 400. Or, you can take seminars of 10-20 students and go to the professor's office hours a few times, essentially 'making it small'. Big schools have hundreds of student groups, we had over 500. Each of these allow you to meet new people with similar hobbies or interests. 

Big schools (or the Ivys and near-Ivys) are also more likely to bring big speakers, offer better study abroad opportunites, have more guest professors, and have better career placement than a minor liberal arts school, simply because these recruiters are going to go to the big schools because they have bigger talent pools (20k students at one school vs 2500). 

Of course, if she has the opportunity to go to an Ivy or a U of Chicago, Georgetown, Stanford, etc, then take it. Unless its Duke, then she should go to UNC 

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Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

Ah, let her do whatever she wants. 

I barely attended high school, went to a lousy university, pissed away a decade as a third-rate pro cyclist, made one bad career choice after another, got into trouble which you would not believe were I to describe it, and I do better than most of the losers on this forum, hee hee. I certainly have more shoes!

----------------------


"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by crazyquik_
> 
> "You can make a big school small, but you can't make a small school big."


I definitely disagree with this assertion, though I'll be the first to admit the advantages of a large school that have become evident on my current year abroad. There are at least two examples in the US of small colleges that manage to feel larger when size is important, (class offerings and important speakers, etc.) I'm pleased to be in one of them, Haverford. The Tri-College or "Quaker Consortium" of Haverford, Bryn Mawr, and Swarthmore allows students to take classes at each of the member institutions and at Penn as well, and all are welcome at each of the others' events. I'm actually majoring at Bryn Mawr. On the West Coast, the Claremont Consortium of Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Scripps, Harvey Mudd, and Pitzer is a liberal arts consortium on a larger scale. Each college has less than 2000 students but provides the offerings of a 10,000 student institution.

I agree that your education is what you make of it, but it sounds like you're underestimating the "Little Ivies"

-----------------------------------
"It is an old trick. The playgoer who does not like dirty plays is denounced as a prude; the music-lover who resents cacophony is told he is a pedant; and in all these matters the final crushing blow administered to the man of discrimination is the ascription to him of a hidebound prejudice against things that are new because they are new." -Royal Cortissoz

www.williamlcoleman.com


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

A hard core old fashioned prep school curiculum (sp?) is I think a good safe bet: 4 years of language, math, science, history, some good writing classes. 

I thought high school was pure hell. I told my nieces, when they were in high school it only gets better, their reply was "Really !!! Thank goodness" 

I wish you and your daughter all the best.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

Mr. Checks, some, not mentioned here look like they may fit the bill.
Barnard, Sara Lawrence and Vassar.
Also, Skidmore in Sarotoga.
This covers NY.
One not mentioned much is Smith, and Bowdoin.

Also, Davidson, in NC is an exceptional school, very competitive.
The schools mentioned here are all very, very competitive.
Pomonoa, Reed etc.
Have a nice day, my firend



Jimmy


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

I think the current standards for collegiate acceptance and affairs is very much in error.

They emphasize individuality through a commodified means of taking individual "multi-hued" classes and athletics, which in fact is hardly promoting any sort of individuality.

The people who are generally the top level types of students are usually rather dull, without much passion.

Beyond the fact, that no college, at least in America, offers any of traditional academic courses of the Classics, which in my opinion renders education to be a very dispassionate sort of game. It's entirely Post-Post Modernist now, every single college curriculum; from community college to Harvard.

I detest the term "well-rounded." There is nothing well-rounded about these homely people. They regard the analogies on the SAT tests as unfathomably difficult.

*'The kind of acting I used to enjoy no longer exists because your prime consideration is the budget, running time, the cost - and whether they'll understand it in Milwaukee.'*

*Dirk Bogarde*


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

In my experience it really matters where you go to school...particularly if that school is good at what you want to do. I started my academic career at the University of Kentucky, where I spent three semesters, before I transferred to the Johns Hopkins University, where I spent five semesters. It really helped when it came time for medical school applications. Obviously your daughter may not want to go to medical school, but I'm sure this anecdote would apply to any graduate/professional discipline she chooses.

Anyway, it is difficult to make this statement without it at least sounding like I'm bragging...but I assure you that is not the way it is intended. When I applied to medical school, I applied to the top seventeen schools in the country and my two state medical schools (the University of Kentucky and the University of Louisville). I had little interest in attending my two state schools, and so I put those applications off until the end, close to the deadline. As a result, my interview was not scheduled until the end of interviewing season, a time when both schools had already filled their classes because they were both on rolling admissions systems.
When I showed up for the interviews, they both had short sessions at the beginning where faculty/administrators talked about the school and tried to build some interest. At one interview (U of L) they said that the class was full and that we would be interviewing for wait-list positions, at the other school (UK) they basically said the same thing but not as explicitly.
At UK, my first interview went alright, but when the guy asked me if I knew anything at all about the University of Kentucky College of Medicine I told him that I did not, a big no-no for medical school admissions. That interview concluded, and I went back to wait for my next interviewer, who it turned out was a former dean and who also told me he was a "recruitment interviewer." So, I thought that was curious, being "recruited" for a medical school that had a full class. Anyway, a week later I received a call from the former dean telling me they had created a spot in the class for me.
At U of L, my interviews went reasonably well, I didn't admit that I knew nothing about the University of Louisville, because I had done at least a little bit of looking around before the interview. Since, I was applying for a "wait list position" I didn't really put that much effort into it and skipped some of the optional things activities like lunch with a medical student and attending a class. Again, a week later I was accepted to a "full" medical school class.
Now, for the record, I was not an academic-allstar at Hopkins. I did well, made pretty good grades, did a little bit of studying for the MCAT on my own instead of taking a prep course, but by Hopkins standards my resume was unremarkable. My grades and MCAT score didn't get me accepted to full medical classes at UK and U of L, coming from a school known for it's top notch medical research did.
The same story can be written about one of my best friends here at USC's medical school who went to Yale; he was relatively unremarkable but got into schools where he applied late and interviewed poorly.

I suppose the moral of my story is a very simple one: going to a great school won't hurt you, so if you can swing it you might as well.


edit: I apologize if that was poorly organized, it was written while studying for a Hematology test and trying to get out the door to go eat.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

If you're looking at schools like wesleyan I'd recommend also Williams, Amherst, the Claremont colleges and so on... I don't know that I'd recommend a single-sex school, although Wellesley's beautiful. I think I read somewhere that Amherst was harder to get into than the Ivies, surprisingly. I wouldn't recommend Reed or Hampshire... Maybe Bard, obviously Sarah Lawrence; Oberlin has a good conservatory but is rather crazy. Have you considered Brown[8D]?

Let her feel out her interests, as it sounds like you're doing. High school was absolute ****ing hell, so guidance rather than pressure is definitely the way to go.

I'd recommend the UCs, particularly Berkeley, as good state schools but with the budget cuts I don't see any reason to go there as an out of stater -- tuition will be high and I imagine there'll be the same problems registering for certain classes because there's so many people.

PS: LabelKing, have you checked out Saint Bonaventure? I think it's where you learn by reading the primary texts of the various originators of the field.


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by LabelKing_
> Beyond the fact, that no college, at least in America, offers any of traditional academic courses of the Classics, which in my opinion renders education to be a very dispassionate sort of game.


While not a large department, one of my roommates was a Classics major. Mine was Anthropology, where I brushed up against post post modernism only by choice. Other traditional departments included Art & Archaeology, Germanics, and Religion.

I was more dispassionate about my one Classics course than any other that I took []

Tom


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by LabelKing_
> 
> Beyond the fact, that no college, at least in America, offers any of traditional academic courses of the Classics, which in my opinion renders education to be a very dispassionate sort of game.


I found this:

Very interesting. One wonders how many modern students take the bait.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

She will have a chance this summer to go to a summer class at either Vassar, Bryn Mawr, or Amherst, so (while it's early) we'll at least get a look at those.
I understand the point about "making a big university small" but I remember my 400-person classes with the famous prof, and the 50-person classes with the TA and it makes me wince. My experience is that you have to survive those first two years before you start getting anything back through smaller classes and some interaction with profs. At the smaller schools, those first two years can/should be life-changing.
We visited Oberlin and she liked it, but one of her assets is that she's a violist and those are a rare commodity everywhere but Oberlin. Also, IIRC, it is still located in Ohio.[}]
Jimmy, would that she could get into Duke. They no longer accept mere students, but only high school demi-gods.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by RJman_
> 
> If you're looking at schools like wesleyan I'd recommend also Williams, Amherst, the Claremont colleges and so on... I don't know that I'd recommend a single-sex school, although Wellesley's beautiful. I think I read somewhere that Amherst was harder to get into than the Ivies, surprisingly. I wouldn't recommend Reed or Hampshire... Maybe Bard, obviously Sarah Lawrence; Oberlin has a good conservatory but is rather crazy. Have you considered Brown[8D]?
> 
> ...


She is in-state for Michigan, so she'd go there before a similar school out-of-state (although that logic didn't work for my brother, and he's paying out-of-state for Wisconsin for his son. Ouch.).

As for Brown, some kids from her school have recently attended, and I'm good friends with the local alumni interviewer. At the appropriate time, favors will sought worldwide...

Here's an easy one for you (but I'd be interested in other views): should she take Spanish or French? She has no preference (although the French teacher "is a really hard grader.")


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> Here's an easy one for you (but I'd be interested in other views): should she take Spanish or French? She has no preference (although the French teacher "is a really hard grader.")


Spanish is more useful in the US, something even some medical schools asked about IIRC.

The knowledge that college tuition is now hitting $40,000 is twisting my stomach in a knot.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Mr Cheeks

I understand your situation very well.
In retrospect, wished I had done it a little different.
My son also graduated from Duke, plans to go to Harvard or Yale for Architecture school.
He was in the right class, for Duke.
On the other hand, my daughter, same grades, 3 sports letter, did not.
She, being a young lady, was in the wrong group.
Young women, are the 7 out of the top ten in high school classes, as the brightest, with high GPA.
This changes from years ago, when it was male.
My dear daughter was heartbroken, when she did not get into Duke, I was livid.
But what can you do.It is so competitive. There are a lot of great schools out there.
She got into one.
And on top of that, went to the NCAA Division 1 Volleyball tourney this year!
She is in heaven, where she is at.
She plans her grad work at a high ranked school, and she may do this.
I am very fortunate.
I tell you my story, so I can share something with you.
Plan a good middle tier school.
There are so many great schools.
Public for instance, UNC Chapel Hil, Cal Berkely, Michigan, are great schools, but tough to get into.
But, look at others.
SUNY NY for instance, has a great school in Binghampton, feeds to NYU, Cornell and all the top schools for law, business and so on.
University of Maryland, University of Georgia, great school.
I could go on.
My advice, relax, focus on what the plan is.

It is simple, a college degree.
The rest will come.
I love my Duke, but, will be honest, it is getting out of hand, what kids have to do to get into these places, out of hand.
Plan more vacations with family, look at schools.
Again, there are so many schools.
Do not focus on top twenty.
Do not do this.
Focus in the middle hundred, still will see wait lists!!

Good luck my friend.




Jimmy


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

Spanish.

There are actual people in the US who speak Spanish on a daily basis. Unless she knows a lot of French-Canadians, it will be easier for her to remember the Spanish. Its also easier to learn. And it sounds like the French teacher is a harder teacher. 

At the high school level she does need to take full advantage of what they offer. The maximum amount of AP classes, languages, etc. There will be students from other schools who come in with 40 hours of college credit and fluent in another language. She may or may not get that much, but she needs to show the colleges that she did the most she could with what her school offered. 

Michigan is nothing to sneeze at...


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Mr. Checks

The schools listed above, Williams, Sara Lawerence, Bard, Wesleyan and so on, are all very competitive schools.
Pomona, Reed, Bowdoin and so on; all very competitive.

Hopkins student brings to light, a lot about the south.
There is a slew of exceptional schools in the south.
U of Kentucky, an excellent academic enviroment.
Great medicine, great place for college.
Louisville as well.
Vanderbilt, Tulane are 2 others, that are good.
I could go on, been all over the country, but do your research, and look.

I think the SAT is a biggie, they say it is part of the game.
My son was over 1500.
My daughter was a 1440.
She played 3 sports as well.
But the SAT is a start.
Also, the schools look for something unique.
I think this is crazy.
Things that may help.
Very good letters, very good.
The essay!!!! They do read the essay, in depth.
It sometimes is the big one, that separates the kids.

And something different, like going to a 3rd world country and learning from this experience.
I think it is crazy, but it may help.
College kids do this as well.

Again, when son was at Duke, it cost me about 35 grand a year, or around that.
It is now 45 plus!!
I think that is too much, something has to give.
I pay in the neiborhood of 16 grand a year, and am happy with all my Marinella ties!
What I am saying, have a plan.
This is important.
Let your kid enjoy high school, more than anything else.
Let her go with the flow, also keeping her on track for college.


Again, aiming to get into a good college, is all you want.
Go look at a lot of schools.
OK, good luck

Jimmy


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## ChubbyTiger (Mar 10, 2005)

Mr. Checks - Having gone to U Mich for my grad work, I can tell you that it is difficult for undergrads to really know their professors at the lower levels (first two or three years, at least). Many of the professors do the 1200 student lecture and then disapear and let the TAs do all of the work in recitations sections and labs. The resources at such schools are great, but the I think they are best suited for kids who _really_ take the initiave to do things themselves. I would have crashed and burned had I gone there for undergrad work.

The Claremonts, the Seven Sisters, Oberlin, Carleton, Grinell, and many others are really great schools. More local for you, I have some friends who went to Alma and liked it. Although your daughter doesn't sound like the science/engineering type, I'll add Rose-Hulman (my alma mater), because it's the #1 undergraduate engineering school in the country (US News). 

Also, while I think DukeGrad is a true gentleman, I have no choice but to agree with crazyquik that Duke is an evil, evil place (Go Terps!).  Sorry.

CT


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

spanish - much better for an american to speak some spanish than french today.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

CT

I just read that, am was so sincere in my thoughts about UNC as well!
LOL
Actually, while at Ft Bragg, went to Chapel Hill my first time, and fell in love with it.
Reminded me of Williamstown, a nice, lovely college town.
My heart was on Chapel Hill, Duke was the one that selected me.
Go Terps??
Not this year.

Mr Cheeks, they are all right, look in your area, but defintely look elsewhere.

For instance, state schools, for outsiders, are difficult.
My daughter did not get into Cal Berkely, got wait listed at UNC.
It is better if you look within your state.
You have one of the finest in Berkely!

Nice day my friends.



Jimmy


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

I was in your daughter's position more than 25 years ago, and back then we were advised to have a minimum of three years of foreign language, preferably four if we were interested in the top schools, to be competitive college applicants. It doesn't sound like much has changed.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by ChubbyTiger_
> 
> Mr. Checks - Having gone to U Mich for my grad work, I can tell you that it is difficult for undergrads to really know their professors at the lower levels (first two or three years, at least). Many of the professors do the 1200 student lecture and then disapear and let the TAs do all of the work in recitations sections and labs. The resources at such schools are great, but the I think they are best suited for kids who _really_ take the initiave to do things themselves. I would have crashed and burned had I gone there for undergrad work.
> 
> ...


I attended Alma and Michigan both, so I agree with you there. I'd like her to get a bit more exposure to people outside the state, and Alma is heavily weighted toward Mich. residents. Very good school, though.

Hopkins: thanks for the essay. I agree with the general thrust of it, and that's one reason I want her to seek out national schools. Besides, it would be fun to be one of the people who is always correcting others, "it's "Johns" Hopkins, not "John" Hopkins."

I wonder how many Johns Hopkins grads have lost jobs because an unaware Personnel office screener has cited them for misspelling on a resume...


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLPWCXIII_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The precise problem is that these schools only offer the Classics if one is to pursue a specific degree in a tangential department.

As for Saint Bonaventure, I'm not familiar although I'm not really in the market for colleges.

*'The kind of acting I used to enjoy no longer exists because your prime consideration is the budget, running time, the cost - and whether they'll understand it in Milwaukee.'*

*Dirk Bogarde*


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## Wimsey (Jan 28, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by LabelKing_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well of course colleges don't offer traditional classics - they would have a very hard time finding qualified students. In 1900, Greek was a prerequisite to be admitted to all (I think) universities; for one of my alma maters (Indiana U.), it was the only requirement. (Of course, people who knew Greek had already learned Latin). Since the Greekless can barely get a good knowledge of Greek in 4 years, there's not much of a way to have a classics curriculum without radically different high schools.

And of course the students who attend college nowadays are different from the 5% who attended 100 years ago, in that they have a greater need to learn a skill that will make them employable. Hence the popularity of computer science and the decline of Greek and Latin.

But, no, I can't explain the popularity of sociology...[8D]


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> Here's an easy one for you (but I'd be interested in other views): should she take Spanish or French? She has no preference (although the French teacher "is a really hard grader.")


I think Spanish is more useful. But I don't think it matters that much.

I took 5 years of spanish. and promptly forgot it after college. 7th grade, and 9-12. (i switched school districts before 8th grade, and things got scrambled).

I did engineering, so the foreign language thing was pointless.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Mr. Checks -

I went to Denison, known to alums as "The Harvard of central Ohio."

At the time (1980-84) it was a school with strong liberal arts academics and a well-deserved reputation as a party school.

Since my time the school severely restricted the role of fraternities and worked hard to get away from the image of the spoiled rich kid living the life dissolute before casually sauntering into Pop's brokerage firm...

Denison and countless other small liberal arts colleges (Haverford, Carleton, Kenyon, Skidmore, Middlebury, to name a few) offer a lot of bang for the buck.

And while they are certainly more expensive than state universities, almost nobody I knew just paid the tab straight up. I remember my parents working for weeks with the financial aid officer to come up with a tenable plan.

Finally, despite being a screwup in college and after, I am part of a network of about 10-15 friends who will remain that way for life. Not too shabby.

Good luck.

Patrick

PS: Famous Denisonians - Sen. Richard Lugar, actor John Schuck, actress Jennifer Garner, the guy who invented Bill's Khakis (I'm guessing his name is Bill something), James Frey, John Terletsky (who plays "Deathstalker" in one of the tremendously bad Argentinian sword 'n' sorcery epics of that name).


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Spanish more practical, but more pedestrian. I took Spanish, however, wish I had taken Italian or French. Depends on your daughter's goals.

I concur with Patrick re Denison. Did not go there, but knew several people at law school/clerkships who went there. They all said they enjoyed their experience. Many good liberal arts schools in Ohio: Denison, Ohio Wesleyan, Wittenberg, Kenyon, Oberlin, etc.

Also, don't forget about honor programs at state schools. Ohio University (my alma mater), for example, has one that is based on the English tutorial system of Oxford and Cambridge. For the right student, that type of education method can be wonderful.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Welcome, JRR.

For that university student who likes the more expensive experience, Smythson of Bond Street has A4 pads for Â£11 each:

https://www.smythson.com/SmythsonSite/product/Refills/wp-es2080.htm

Take notes in style.


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## jasonpraxis (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> 
> She will have a chance this summer to go to a summer class at either Vassar, Bryn Mawr, or Amherst, so (while it's early) we'll at least get a look at those.


A summer program for high school students? Excellent. I did one at Syracuse and had a great time, learned a lot, and picked up 6 credits well in advance of my eventual matriculation.

I'm familiar with both Vassar and Amherst, and would recommend them highly. Maybe I'd give Amherst the edge by virtue of its membership in a consortium of area schools (also UMass-Amherst, Smith, Mount Holyoke, and Hampshire) and setting: small college town, Northampton's a few minutes away, and it's only a couple of hours to Boston. And it's a bit less of a PC nightmare than Vassar.

Finally, I took French in high school and college. It has been very useful for my work in philosophy and literature, but less useful daily. A couple of years ago I picked up a Spanish-English dictionary and grammar, and am able to negotiate the language when needed. I've never yet needed it professionally.


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

It's very much obvious what the most useful tongue to learn is. Ancient Greek.

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## ChubbyTiger (Mar 10, 2005)

Hmmm, I'd go with Latin, personally. Though Ancient Greek or Hebrew would be my next pick. 

I can't believe I forgot about Kenyon. Excellent school in a beautiful little town. My sister went there and loved it. Off-campus culture would be very similar to much of Mich, though. Unless you live on 8 Mile Rd or in the UP, of course. 

CT


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## Hanseat (Nov 20, 2004)

Latin is still a solid foundation in my book. Had to take from grade 7-11 (other choice was french) and it helped me to vastly expand my horizon. Without having had a single lesson of french (having been a few times to F) I am able to pretty much understand a text in french though... Will learn french after my HS graduation in May though. Spanish never had much of an appeal to me- like Portugal much better than Spain. The single best thing that I can imagine now is to send your daughter on a foreign exchange for a year during HS- one of the best decisions I ever made. Especially in the US that should pretty much even out every 'bumb' in your college application. Besides, after she comes back from a country like Germany she likely will have a better understanding of mathematics and sciences (having seen both I observed that here it's about actually learning and understanding the underlaying priciples rather than learning how to apply some formulas that help you score well on the SAT and scantron-tests).
I know that many girls get along with this system better than with just learning formulas and some scientific smattering. 

A good frend of mine (girl, majoring in German and Math and somewaht left) is in her first semester at Bowdoin college and likes it a lot- she's been accepted to pretty much every school there is and just liked it best. Saw some pictures and liked the 'groove' a lot.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by ChubbyTiger_
> 
> Hmmm, I'd go with Latin, personally. Though Ancient Greek or Hebrew would be my next pick.
> 
> ...


mrs trotter happens to be pretty fluent in reading all three - if you don't happen to be an ancient art historian, not very useful. on the other hand, the latin has given her an excellent base in romance languages, and she can understand enough modern greek to read signs.


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## Curator (Aug 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Hanseat_
> 
> The single best thing that I can imagine now is to send your daughter on a foreign exchange for a year during HS- one of the best decisions I ever made.


Agreed, my HS semester in Rome changed my life and is the reason I'm on my current career track. I don't know about "sending" her away though: if the opportunity presents itself and she is interested, it's a great chance to broaden one's horizons at an important formative time.

-----------------------------------
"It is an old trick. The playgoer who does not like dirty plays is denounced as a prude; the music-lover who resents cacophony is told he is a pedant; and in all these matters the final crushing blow administered to the man of discrimination is the ascription to him of a hidebound prejudice against things that are new because they are new." -Royal Cortissoz


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## Nantucket Red (Jan 26, 2006)

I so loathed the prep school I attended that once it was clear I couldn't flunk out and fail to graduate, I essentially quit trying and counted the seconds till I left. Then I apprenticed in carpentry, travelled to Japan and taught English, which soaked up a decade. Then I returned to the States, started up my own carpentry business, lived for a year in a Zen monastery, and then applied to Columbia. I was accepted and started my undergraduate education at age 34. Five years later, I graduated magna, PBK in Japanese literature (both classical and modern). I had already been accepted into grad school at Columbia before graduation (and later decided not to go). 

My point is that, while Miss Checks would do well to prepare, her best assets will be a natural curiosity and motivation, along with a focus that she can articulate. If she has that now, more power to her.

I do not recommend that anyone follow the same path I did to an education because it's basically a crap-shoot, but many educational institutions are becoming more receptive to non-traditional students. It seems to me that excessive preparation can be counter-productive unless the student is exceptionally focused. In my case, I did not become focused until I'd had ample exposure to the wider world.

Those are my thoughts on college, for what it's worth.

-------------------------------------------------
God gave us women; the Devil gave them corsets.
- French proverb


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## Mr. Knightly (Sep 1, 2005)

You can't really assume that you're going to get in anywhere these days. With so many qualified applicants, the job of admissions offices is increasingly about trying to eliminate applicants however they can so they have a manageable sized incoming class.

However, in retrospect, I took college admissions way too seriously. I'm currently doing my MA at a top 5 program and my classmates come from all over the place, including schools at which I would've really turned up my nose several years ago. You don't have to be at the very top ranked schools to do what you want to do.

I'd check out my alma, Carleton College in MN. It's not quite as competitive for admissions as some of the eastern schools but it's top shelf academically. It's also one of the friendliest, happiest places I've ever been. Not even remotely pretentious.



Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


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## countdemoney (Apr 5, 2005)

Several years ago, I read about a small, liberal arts college on the east coast which did not grade students. Instead, students were provided written critques by their professors. Perhaps it is one of those schools already mentioned. This approach always struck me as a great idea. I've always felt that education was about teachers, not books.


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## Long Way of Drums (Feb 15, 2006)

You're thinking of Hampshire. But don't mistake such rhetoric for much of a difference in the application process. Virtually no matter where you go, for a first year, nothing matters more than grades except luck, and nothing matters more than luck except grades. This is quite different for transfers, however.

Except where vast quantities of money are involved, in which case nothing else really matters.

"Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."

"Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keels. Makes her home."

*We will not walk in fear, one of another.*


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

I spent my freshman year at Vassar and didn't like it. That doesn't mean I'd recommend avoiding the place -- it was my first choice and I was accepted early decision, but during my senior year of prep school I changed a lot. I had a part-time job writing for a small daily newspaper and thus knew I was already good enough to do the job, so when I got to college I found it frustrating because I really wanted to be out in the real world. And the next year I became a full-time reporter.

We can make all kinds of plans, but at that age all kinds of things can alter them. I wouldn't sweat it too much and would allow the kid to make her own choice.

To echo Patrick, the amount of financial aid can be open to negotiation at small private colleges. Vassar's first offer wasn't enough, and when my parents told them so, the school offered quite a bit more money. Princeton, which doesn't believe in student loans, has a financial aid calculator on its Web site that will give you an idea of what they'd expect you to pay:



If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably skip Vassar and just start working. If I had to do it all over again and spend four years at a college, I'd probably apply to Princeton or UC San Diego, the latter being a very good academic school with a stunning campus. I took a few courses there non-credit in the late 1980s when I was working in San Diego and thought it was an interesting place -- smart kids who didn't seem too full of themselves.


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## countdemoney (Apr 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Long Way of Drums_
> 
> You're thinking of Hampshire. But don't mistake such rhetoric for much of a difference in the application process. [/b][/size=1]


Thanks, I couldn't remember Hampshire's name for the life of me. I don't imagine they are easy to get into, but I was thinking less of the application process and more about the college experience. At least for me, personal interaction is much more important to my learning.

Checks, one of the things often hidden is that certain advisors have an "in" at certain colleges. Perhaps they went there, perhaps they have a track record of success in suggesting students, etc. The important thing is that they can provide a leg up with those schools.


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## Long Way of Drums (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by countdemoney_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's more that there is an extremely pronounced (and arguably rather deceptive) incongruity between their ostensible position on the importance of formal grading and their application process.

In my experience, I liked the idea. I loathe the educational establishment and find it often unrelentingly tedious and witless. But actually visiting the school and knowing some people there was enough to convince me that it doesn't really live up to expections.

"Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."

"Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keels. Makes her home."

*We will not walk in fear, one of another.*


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_I wonder how many Johns Hopkins grads have lost jobs because an unaware Personnel office screener has cited them for misspelling on a resume...


Oh, I'm sure it's happened at least once. Supposedly nobody has ever been accepted that omitted the "s" from "Johns" in their application; they catch them that way too.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by crs_
> 
> I spent my freshman year at Vassar and didn't like it. That doesn't mean I'd recommend avoiding the place -- it was my first choice and I was accepted early decision, but during my senior year of prep school I changed a lot. I had a part-time job writing for a small daily newspaper and thus knew I was already good enough to do the job, so when I got to college I found it frustrating because I really wanted to be out in the real world. And the next year I became a full-time reporter.
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying. At this point it's all about putting her in a position to have lots of choices.

Anything in particular about Vassar that you didn't like? I have heard there are significant town/gown issues, but beyond that, nothing else negative.

On another note, I'd love to hear from any Wisconsin, Illinois, or Indiana alums about their experiences.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

Well if she's liberal, you'll certainly want to steer clear of my alma mater back there in Michigan.

As to state schools, I would recommend heading out this way to look at Arizona or ASU. Both good schools (Arizona is better), cheap out-of-state tuition and great campuses.

Also - I second the recommendation of studying Spanish over French. Much more usable. My wife has dual Bachelor's in Biology and French from Alma but she rarely if ever uses the French. Luckily, she also speaks some Spanish which tends to come in quite handy.

It's my understanding that in addition to the right classes and grades, you also want to be well-rounded in student activities and I've read that colleges are now also putting an emphasis on community service activities. So if she's not volunteering somewhere or involved in some group, she might want to start doing something along those lines.


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> Anything in particular about Vassar that you didn't like?


As I wrote, I felt I was ready for the real world and my chosen occupation. I was done being a kid; I didn't want to be cloistered. I doubt I would have been any happier at Williams or Bowdoin or Oberlin or Reed. As I said, just because I didn't like it doesn't mean I wouldn't recommend it. The friends I made there stuck around for four years.



> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> I have heard there are significant town/gown issues, but beyond that, nothing else negative.


I went there nearly 30 years ago, and Poughkeepsie has changed since then. The downtown was fairly vibrant then, with an independent department store anchoring downtown. Last time I saw Poughkeepsie was in the late 1990s, and the downtown had fallen on hard times. I wouldn't think Poughkeepie would offer much to the Vassar student, except concerts at the Civic Center and Bardovon Opera House, and access to street drugs. But NYC isn't a bad train ride, and there used to be buses to New Haven.

Significant issues? Well, I don't think Vassar's ever been a real part of the community, not with a gate and a guard at the main entrance.

If the kid has a chance to try a summer program there, she could get a taste of it.


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Bradford_
> 
> Well if she's liberal, you'll certainly want to steer clear of my alma mater back there in Michigan.
> 
> ...


Spanish is ahead by a nose.

B-Rad-Ford: I'm not sure she's a liberal, but in any case I can't imagine Dad signing any checks to a certain "liberal" arts college in South-central Michigan


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> B-Rad-Ford: I'm not sure she's a liberal, but in any case I can't imagine Dad signing any checks to a certain "liberal" arts college in South-central Michigan


But, but, isn't there a womyn's music festival in Michigan - she'd be so close - [}]
Sorry, I just always equate Michigan and womyn studying herstory - LOL


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny. You raise another issue, whether someone is allowed to be moderate on today's college campus. I keep reading about schools where students (from the left and right) are jumped on in class for the slightest slight. You can't simply be a progressive studying history, you have to either be a "womyn studying herstory" or a free market Christian. The reasonable middle is not allowed.


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## scrollkey (Sep 22, 2003)

> quote:Beyond the fact, that no college, at least in America, offers any of traditional academic courses of the Classics, which in my opinion renders education to be a very dispassionate sort of game.


St. John's College in Annapolis (I believe they also have a campus in New Mexico) offers one degree, bachelor of fine arts, and the course of study is the great books, read in the original Greek and Latin as applicable.

I have always had the idea that one day I'll enroll in St. John's, though I've been out of school for 25 years (Yale '81.) Paul Mellon enrolled in St. John's in his 50s or 60s, as I recall.

Cheers,
Russ


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## Lord Foppington (Feb 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would say this view itself is part of the culture of exaggeration you're talking about.

There are plenty of "normal," centrist and/or politically apathetic students everywhere, and always have been. There was a silent majority of middle-of-the-roaders even at Berkeley in the 60s, I'm told.

Stap my vitals!


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Lord Foppington_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My classes devolve into the kind of debate that I mentioned, so that's part of where I'm getting my information. If there are a lot of middle of the roaders, they don't speak up.


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## Lord Foppington (Feb 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm. Hasn't been my experience. Overtly political topics don't usually come up in my teaching. And I imagine most classes are that way, though some indeed are politically charged and accordingly bring out conflicting opinions.

I guess some people think just reading a novel by a woman, or talking about what poor people were up to in a given historical moment, is some kind of horrible PC gesture.

Stap my vitals!


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

I teach poli sci.


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## Lord Foppington (Feb 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> 
> I teach poli sci.


That would explain it.

Stap my vitals!


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

I went to Connecticut College in New London. Like other NESCAC schools, it has a reputation for being selective, expensive, and good. To its credit, I did have some great professors (though most of them were well over 60 and about to retire, and their replacements are most unimpressive, I was on the hiring committee to replace my favorite history prof, she was supplanted by a woman whose thesis was on ice cream...) and I did develop my writing, speaking, and reasoning skills enough to be accepted at a top 50 law school. Because of the small size of the student body (1800) I made many--indeed hundreds of--cordial acquaintances if not many true friends which may help me connectionwise some day. The school also had an Honor Code, many opportunities for student-faculty research and just general opportunities for involvement.

Overall I give it a C, however. C=average in my book. B/B- in today's inflated grading.

Frankly, though it's still a competitive school, I wouldn't recommend it. Lot of infrastructural problems, some professors leaving, rather un-stellar endowment. Of course one of the reasons I didn't like it much was because I was/am a conservative. When I started there it was moderate-liberal and as the 4 years progressed it changed for the more liberal, so it reminds me of a dressed-up Wesleyan in political attitudes. I would not recommend it to anyone left of Barbara Boxer unless you're prepared to spend most of it sailing and/ior intoxicated, in which case you might love it and remain blithely oblivious to the inordinate amount of leftwingers present and their annoying prattle. Apologies to lefties present.

I also observed that CC's record in getting people into good grad schools is not so hot, and I was never truly impressed by the intellect, vigor, or ability of the vast majority of my peers.

On the whole, an underwhelming experience for $146,762+parking and living costs

I was, later on, more impressed by other NESCAC schools like Bowdoin, but originally applied to CC early decision because I had been so initially impressed by the campus atmosphere, the admissons office, and the history departments, all of which steadily declined during my presence there. I had also, by the time transferring became a possibility, so established myself in Student Government and positions of leadership that I did not wish to sacrifice the advantages I perceived this would have on my resume. That was a mistake.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

skrollkey is CORRECT!
That liberal arts school in Annapolis does not grade, nor accept SAT scores.
Very intense school.
Research it, very interesting place.
I know of it, was at Annapolis for 3-4 years.
So enjoyed St Johns and the Naval Academy play round of cricket!!
Interesting school.
Have nice day

Jimmy


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

What does KitonBrioni teach?

*'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'*

*Georges Bataille*


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

"$146,762+parking" 

Now that's some perspective!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, as Conn College is a name that pops up now and again. Sad to hear of a decline in History particularly, as that was my undergrad major and is one way that I'll measure a school.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> 
> "$146,762+parking"
> 
> ...


Mr. Checks,

Regardless of quality, you can tack that number up for any NESCAC, and with with the price of tuition going up so fast yearly, it'll cost about $10-12,000 more if you started this fall than it did for me 2001-2005...my tuition was almost $9,000 higher when I left Conn then when I arrived in the fall of my freshman year.


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