# Leave Poor Kramer Alone!!!



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Anybody else a little sick of how the media is giving Michael Richards such a bad time over his so called "racial tirade"???

Ok...at the risk of sounding racist...what did the guy do that was so bad???Granted he probably could have chosen a less derogatory word to use, but I think people fail to put this in context...here is a professional comedian who is (from what I understand) well respected in his industry, being harrassed throughout his entire set by two jerks who were probably trying to illicit just such a response from him, finaly when the guy's had enough he loses his cool and says some things that he probably shouldnt have said...

ok...

But you mean to tell me that when somebody loses their temper and has a momentary lapse in judgement (where nobody is injured, or harmed in any way) he deserves to be raked over the coals the way this man is being right now??? Who among us hasnt lost their temper at one point or another, and done something that we maybe arent extremely proud of???sheesh, you'd think he came out on stage in a white hood or something...

and the other thing I dont really understand...sence when has racism in comedy been a taboo??? now, I must add that I am indeed not a racist, but, why is it that when a white person makes a derogatory remark about another ethnic group it is considered irreprehensible, yet the same people whom are shaming Michael Richards probably find it hillarious when Chris Rock has a 60 minute HBO special that could beconsidered a racial tirade against caucassians...

I dont know...I'm just sick of hearing about how "horrible" Mr. Richards' actions were, I just think people need to lighten up a bit...


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## Lushington (Jul 12, 2006)

So much for the _Seinfeld_ reunion special. If that was ever in the works, it's dead now. Probably for the best. It will be interesting to see how Larry David handles this in the next season of _Curb Your Enthusiasm_, as Larry has a great deal fun on that show parodying his alleged racism. In fact, during his stand-up days, David was known for going off on hecklers and really tearing into them; perhaps Richards thought what he was doing was sanctioned by the custom and usage of the greats. Who knows? During the uproar last week, I came across this photograph of Michael Richards in full Masonic fig:

It's hard to look at that photograph without thinking that it is a prelude to some Krameresque riff. Cosmo as a Mason was a rich, untapped vein of humor. I suppose it will stay that way now.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

As a Conservative, I have to say that I sympathise with Mr Richard's plight. White people are oppressed, and the liberal media like to tear down good Christian people.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Fogey said:


> As a Conservative, I have to say that I sympathise with Mr Richard's plight. White people are oppressed, and the liberal media like to tear down good Christian people.


You are doing this all wrong, I knew it. Conservatives do not give a damn what happens to actors.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Indeed, he'd be considered the hollywood elite...LoL...

Fogey, you pull this off right and you could become AAAC's very own version of Stephen Colbert...I love your new look (St. Ronald Reagan...I love it!!!)...


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Anybody else a little sick of how the media is giving Michael Richards such a bad time over his so called "racial tirade"???
> 
> Ok...at the risk of sounding racist...what did the guy do that was so bad???Granted he probably could have chosen a less derogatory word to use, but I think people fail to put this in context...here is a professional comedian who is (from what I understand) well respected in his industry, being harrassed throughout his entire set by two jerks who were probably trying to illicit just such a response from him, finaly when the guy's had enough he loses his cool and says some things that he probably shouldnt have said...
> 
> ...


You kind of answer your own question, as part of a comedy act, it would be very funny. If you saw the video and you thought that was part of the act, well....... As a supposed professional, there are ways of handling hecklers. Also keep in mind that he was asked by management to apologize to the crowd post stand-up act. He refused. Yes, Chris Rock makes fun of white people (and pretty much of all races) as part of his act but the fact of the matter is that this country never had a period where white people were oppressed. It did have a period where blacks were enslaved and tortured simply for being black. It is your right to think that slavery and all that other stuff was in the past and it no longer matters but you can't brush off Mr. Richards saying the things he did as being comical given the video. I'd like to think that if Chris Rock said things like "****" and "we should throw you back in the ovens" that there would be an equal amount of outrage.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

emorel98 said:


> ....but the fact of the matter is that this country never had a period where white people were oppressed.


Maybe not all "white" people but please tell the Scots that were "indentured" i.e. bondage slaves, or the "We Do Not Hire Irish" folks that some "white" people were not oppressed at some point in the history of the US.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

emorel98 said:


> but the fact of the matter is that this country never had a period where white people were oppressed.


I think the Irish, Germans, Russians, Italians, and just about every other european demmographic other than Brittish might be inclined to disagree with that...

...and besides, I dont think Chris Rock ever had to suffer through the perils of slavery...


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> I think the Irish, Germans, Russians, Italians, and just about every other european demmographic other than Brittish might be inclined to disagree with that...


Depends what you mean by oppression. My ancestors never had Irish or German or Italian slaves, at least none that they admit to having. Also, unless I was taught the wrong history, those groups were voting, working, worshipping and going to school long before blacks were still being whipped if they got "uppity". Any Irish or Italian churches got blown up? Any germans beat up as they were walking down the street past some white guys? Look we can go at this all day. You don't think that calling two blacks in a comedy club "******" and "fifty years ago we'd have a fork up your ass" is wrong. Fine, but don't act like those that think he did something wrong are loony left liberals. Since this thread seems it will quickly go south, I'm done with it.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

emorel98 said:


> Any germans beat up as they were walking down the street past some white guys?


Ummmm...yeah, my Grandmother used to tell me stories about how kids would throw rocks at them for being "filthy Russians" and for being Catholics...I'm sorry but the blacks arent the only group who had it rough, and granted things were exceptionally crappy for them way back when, but that doesnt justify their racism any more than a white persons...


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

emorel98 said:


> *You don't think that calling two blacks in a comedy club "******" and "fifty years ago we'd have a fork up your ass" is wrong. *Fine, but don't act like those that think he did something wrong are loony left liberals. Since this thread seems it will quickly go south, I'm done with it.


That is not what anyone said. Of course it was wrong, stupid and hateful. You just went a bit far in your statements and got called on it.


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> That is not what anyone said. Of course it was wrong, stupid and hateful. You just went a bit far in your statements and got called on it.


Here is a sentence from the first post on this thread

"Ok...at the risk of sounding racist...what did the guy do that was so bad???"


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

emorel98 said:


> Here is a sentence from the first post on this thread
> 
> "Ok...at the risk of sounding racist...what did the guy do that was so bad???"


I stand corrected then. That is not what *I* said. Your comments however were still off the mark too.


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> Ummmm...yeah, my Grandmother used to tell me stories about how kids would throw rocks at them for being "filthy Russians" and for being Catholics...I'm sorry but the blacks arent the only group who had it rough, and granted things were exceptionally crappy for them way back when, but that doesnt justify their racism any more than a white persons...


I hate gettng sucked into this lose-lose discussions but....

Who is justifying their racism?? I said Chris Rock is funny when he makes fun of people in his comedy act. I also said that if he went on an anti Jewish tirade, comedy act or not, that I would hope that their is the same amount of outrage. You started this thread with the premise that Mr. Richards was doing a comedy act and that under the guise of comedy, calling people deregatory names is funny. Calling the historical black situation in this country "rough" is a bit of an understatement. The KKK was not created in this country to get rid of the Scots or Russians. I'm Spanish and Mr. Richards can call me a ******, **** etc all day and I could care less but there is no real history behind those words. And yes, everyone is oppressed at one time or another but no one has been oppressed from the founding of our country to the 50's like the blacks. Keep in mind that blacks fought in the Revolutionary War, WW1, WW2 among others, even though they had zero rights in this country. In other words, dying for a country that legally classified them as less of a human being than every other person. Have a good night.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Funny, I was just waiting for someone to start a thread claiming that Mel Gibson got treated worse for his anti-Semitic rant than Richards did for his racist one, mainly because Gibson is a known conservative. Defending blatant racism was way past anything I expected.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

nobody is defending racism...My original post was stating that yes, he made some remarks that were out of line...but he did it out of frusteration (as in he didnt just walk on stage and start spouting racial slurs), the topic then turned to racism (which is a touchy subject anyway), but what I'm saying is that if one wants to preach real racial equality, then how is chris rock belittling white people under the guise of comedy any better than michael richards using the N word because he was tired of being harassed by patrons at a club??? I never said what he did was right, but I'm not going to take the holier-than-thou stance and act like I've never let frusteration get the better of me, what I'm saying is that he is not a racist for what he said...let me refer you to another quote from my first post...


> Who among us hasnt lost their temper at one point or another, and done something that we maybe arent extremely proud of???


I only included the bit about chris Rock as an example of why this thing should not be considered such a big deal... and for the record, I too am half Cuban, and I still laugh when comedians like Carlos Mencia make fun of the typical stereotype of the "******" or whatever, granted I dont think it is racially motivated, but I wouldnt get any more offended if a white (or black) comedian wanted to make fun of Latin people...

what i'm saying is that people need to lighten up...


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

Whether he lost his cool or not, he is responsible for what comes out of his mouth. Calling them the N word may not have been the best choice of words. Saying, "Fifty years ago we'd of had you hanging from a tree with a pitchfork up your A.." was probably too much.

So, no I don't feel sorry for him. He knew the price of playing in the big leagues. He wants to be anonymous and left alone, go work as a checker at Wal-Mart.


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## jeansguy (Jul 29, 2003)

He very clearly crossed the line. However, I don't know why this is such a news story. Seinfeld ended a loong time ago. Kramer hasn't done anything with his career since. He's obviously a loser, enough said.

I do think Mel got screwed by the media though. What he did was certainly wrong, and anti-semetic beliefs are wrong. But you'd be hard pressed to watch television for an evening, even now, and not hear about it. They're called actors for a reason - it's because I don't care what they have to say about real life.


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## Jimmy G (Mar 23, 2006)

Guess who'll be hanging out with Pauly Shore now https://imageshack.us. I hear the one and only Gloria Allred - who never met a TV camera she didn't want to hop in front of - is on top of things already. She wants Richards' people to appear alongside her before a retired judge who'd establish how much moolah he's going to need to cough up. To quell the emotional anguish of her clients, you understand https://imageshack.us.
So here goes our system in all its legalized extortion glory again. Some people are outraged @ Richards' moronic outburst ( anybody care to bet if he'd repeat that in South Central ? ) , others are looking to put themselves in a free Lexus https://imageshack.us.

https://imageshack.us


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

jeansguy said:


> I do think Mel got screwed by the media though. What he did was certainly wrong, and anti-semetic beliefs are wrong. But you'd be hard pressed to watch television for an evening, even now, and not hear about it. They're called actors for a reason - it's because I don't care what they have to say about real life.


What baffles me is most consider Mel "conservative". All of the anti-semites that I can think of are pretty much liberal Democrats. Dubya and his crew are the biggest bunch of Israel supporters going.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> What baffles me is most consider Mel "conservative".


Wayfarer, 
Anyone in Hollywood that openly acknowledges God is considered a conservative.


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## queueball (Jun 16, 2005)

The Gabba Goul said:


> what i'm saying is that people need to lighten up...


Dare I say...Amen!


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> Maybe not all "white" people but please tell the Scots that were "indentured" i.e. bondage slaves, or the "We Do Not Hire Irish" folks that some "white" people were not oppressed at some point in the history of the US.


In the U.S? I know the Irish were discriminated against, but nothing like Jim Crow or slavery in the U.S.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Trenditional said:


> "Fifty years ago we'd of had you hanging from a tree with a pitchfork up your A.." was probably too much.


I don't see how people reacting negatively that equals being to sensitive.

"I'd like to think that if Chris Rock said things like "****" and "we should throw you back in the ovens" that there would be an equal amount of outrage."
quoting emorel98

If Chris said such things his career would be over, deservedly. I don't know why Gabba & Co think we shouldn't be just as outraged as the Jews would be.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> In the U.S? I know the Irish were discriminated against, but nothing like Jim Crow or slavery in the U.S.


I do not remember making it a comparison as you are putting forward, could you show me where I did please?. What I did state however, you even quoted it, was that it was false to put forward that no "white" person had ever been oppressed in the US. Do you wish to dispute this thought and maintain that there has not been a group of "white" people (I use this term only because the person I was originally answering did) in the US that were oppressed?


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> I do not remember making it a comparison as you are putting forward, could you show me where I did please?. What I did state however, you even quoted it, was that it was false to put forward that no "white" person had ever been oppressed in the US. Do you wish to dispute this thought and maintain that there has not been a group of "white" people (I use this term only because the person I was originally answering did) in the US that were oppressed?


Thats why I said the Irish were discriminated against, no group of Whites were oppressed in the U.S. Certainly not as a matter of U.S policy


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

> Main Entry: op·press
> Pronunciation: &-'pres
> Function: transitive verb
> Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French oppresser, from Latin oppressus, past participle of opprimere, from ob- against + premere to press -- more at OB-, PRESS
> ...


"WE DO NOT HIRE IRISH" <== oppression
Indentured servitude <===oppression

Sorry, they were indeed oppressed, unless you wish to dispute Webster's.


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## Doctor B (Sep 27, 2006)

*What?*

Oooh, I loved Stefanie Kramer in Hart to Hart. 
What did she do now?!?


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

His comments were uncalled for. And God bless America, where our steady march to emancipation of all people regardless of race, creed, colour, religon, sexual orientation or disability allows two black men to enter a club in 2006 and behave just like white male protestant oafs. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. 'We shall overcome, we shall overcome, we shall be as rude, as you, someday.'


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Doctor B said:


> Oooh, I loved Stefanie Kramer in Hart to Hart.
> What did she do now?!?


That was Stefanie Powers. Stepfanie (note the P) Kramer was on Hunter.

And interestingly (if you don't mind the hijack), Fred Dryer, who starred in "Hunter", was also the first choice for Ted Danson's role in "Cheers".


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

I read somewhere that the PR team Richards has been in touch with is seeking guidance from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Richards has some serious problems and what he said was disgusting but he should not make things worse by dealing with charltans like Jackson (of fun baby fame) and Sharpton (where to begin on this clown? Tawana Brawley, Crown Heights....)
There is racism in this country and we (I speak as a white male here) need to a better job in combating it but the African-American community makes the task harder when they accept the leadership of people like Jackson and Sharpton.

Karl


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Kav said:


> His comments were uncalled for. And God bless America, where our steady march to emancipation of all people regardless of race, creed, colour, religon, sexual orientation or disability allows two black men to enter a club in 2006 and behave just like white male protestant oafs. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. 'We shall overcome, we shall overcome, we shall be as rude, as you, someday.'


Very thoughtful and true, Kav. The western world acheived full equality many years ago, although some communists and other assorted troublemakers inexplicably refuse to acknowledge this reality. Mr Richards is obviously a godly man, and I'm sure Christ smiles down upon us that such a situation could peacefully take place.

God Bless all.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Fogey said:


> Very thoughtful and true, Kav. The western world acheived full equality many years ago, although some communists and other assorted troublemakers inexplicably refuse to acknowledge this reality. Mr Richards is obviously a godly man, and I'm sure Christ smiles down upon us that such a situation could peacefully take place.
> 
> God Bless all.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> "WE DO NOT HIRE IRISH" <== oppression
> Indentured servitude <===oppression
> 
> Sorry, they were indeed oppressed, unless you wish to dispute Webster's.


I guess your right. To my mind oppression doesn't sound in regards to the Irish, discrmination seems better.
But your point remains valid as Indentured servitude is a form of oppression.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Oppression? Read Paddy's Lament for starters. The twilight Lords is another tgood one, explains how the Kavanaugh's embraced english customs and law and were cheated of their land. We got real irish again right quick and annihilated the usurping english family to the last breeder.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Why has this thread devolved into a debate over who's been more oppressed? Who cares? Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just agree that a person who uses racial/ethnic slurs, regardless of target, should be called on it?


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

DocHolliday said:


> Why has this thread devolved into a debate over who's been more oppressed? Who cares? Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just agree that a person who uses racial/ethnic slurs, regardless of target, should be called on it?


Doc, personal accountability? Whoa, what a concept! Your ideas are on the verge of insanity. =)


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## Jimmy G (Mar 23, 2006)

Get a load of this : 



November 24, 2006
The Crucifixion of Kramer
By Bob Weir
I’ve never been a fan of Seinfeld, and I’m not very familiar with the characters. When the show went into syndication a few years ago, I began to come across it whenever I did any channel surfing. I don’t know anything about Michael Richards, the guy who played Kramer on the show.

When I read about his onstage rant at a comedy club in Hollywood last week, I figured the guy has some serious anger management problems. Anyone who has performed in front of a live audience knows of the danger posed by hecklers; it comes with the territory.

Hence, when Mr. Richards was interrupted by a small group at a nearby table, he should have been competent enough to deal with it without engaging in racist invective. Having said that, let’s look at what it means to lose your temper and make a few stupid remarks in the ultra-sensitive country that we’ve become. Since the guy imploded onstage, the video quickly made its way onto the international airwaves, resulting in the type of condemnation that should be reserved for, say, a man who butchered 2 people and got away with it.

When OJ Simpson was acquitted by a predominantly black jury, there were scenes of black people celebrating the gross injustice all across the country. The pain on the faces of the Brown and Goldman families, as they sat in the courtroom watching the murderer being congratulated for beating the system, was heart-wrenching to all decent people. Yet, we didn’t hear from Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, or any other so-called black leaders.

Anyone with an IQ higher than a fire hydrant knew the man was the killer. Imagine if a white man had just slaughtered 2 black people and left that much evidence behind. If a white jury acquitted him, there’d be rioting from coast to coast. Recently, when the obnoxious monster tried to thumb his nose at the public again with his “If I did it” obscenity, where was the denunciation from the black community?

Why didn’t we see Mr. Sharpton on the David Letterman Show castigating those responsible for foisting that pathological display of arrogance on our nation? Are a few forbidden words by a disgruntled, has-been comic worse than a tantalizing tongue-in-cheek “confession” from a murderer who cheated justice? To say our priorities are distorted is a gross understatement.

When someone like Mr. Richards makes a bunch of stupid comments he’s immediately crucified and no one seems to have the courage to point out that it was merely some angry words from an emotionally disturbed man, it wasn’t homicide.

How many people know that the blacks at that table were referring to Richards as a “white cracker”?

Evidently, it’s okay to be pejorative toward whites if you’re black. In fact, it’s acceptable for blacks to use scurrilous language toward other blacks, as is often heard in the lyrics of rap music. Moreover, blacks can use similarly disparaging words toward other ethnic groups and refer to women in the vilest type of street language imaginable.

The question is: do blacks have some special privileges granted to them by the Constitutional description of freedom of speech?

Whites and blacks have fought, and often died, in the struggle for equality. However, it appears that what we have arrived at is a disproportionate equality that gives blacks the exclusive right to be offended by non-blacks. When Eddie Murphy or Chris Rock make racist comments about whites during their standup routines, there’s no hue and cry from the white community. But, let a white comic take similar jabs at blacks and you’d have an earthquake that would shatter the Richter Scale.

Undoubtedly, there are those reading this who will accuse me of racism, but that too, comes with the territory. Someone must point out these things to a public that has become robotically trained to go into knee-jerk mode every time some white fool blows his cool. This marvelous, melting-pot experiment in democracy will never work until we rid ourselves of this one-sided view of race relations. If certain words and phrases are to be prohibited from use by one segment of society, they must be prohibited from use by all. Otherwise, the countless number of lives lost, both black and white, to obtain “equality for all,” has resulted in a most bizarre and incongruous definition of the phrase.

Bob Weir is a former detective sergeant in the New York City Police Department. He is the excutive editor of The News Connection in Highland Village, Texas


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## BertieW (Jan 17, 2006)

If only Michael Richards were as funny as Chris Rock he might have gotten away with this. Richards' tirade was just sad and stupid, the sort of thing you'd expect from someone in a bus shelter late at night.

At this point in our supposed evolution, it would be nice if all sides chose to eschew racial epithets.

OK, everyone except Don Rickles.



Jimmy G said:


> Get a load of this :
> 
> November 24, 2006
> The Crucifixion of Kramer
> ...


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