# How bad taste is it to wear school colors (mufflers) if you didn't attend the school?



## PeterEliot (Jul 9, 2008)

I've asked the same question on StyleForum and wanted to know what AAAC members think. 

First let me clarify that I am Korean and live in Korea, where U.S. school colors aren't likely to be recognized. I've been checking out J. Press's extra 25% off sale and found some very pretty winter scarves/mufflers, so pretty that I suddenly wanted to get some ahead of the season. Most of them were college colors. We all wear regimental colors that got nothing to do with our own illustrious military backgrounds, but I wonder if the same is allowed of school colors.

What I'm asking is this. Suppose I take a stroll in downtown Seoul, come wintertime, in my blazer and Yale Berkeley muffler, and, against a one-in-a-hundred-thousand chances, some elderly American gentleman, evidently an alumnus, accosts me politely and asks if I am a graduate and, please, what year? Suppose that I tell him, "No, I just really like their colors"? Would he look at me like I was crazy? Would I have grounds to be ashamed for having conned the nice man into thinking me a fellow Yalie? I'm asking this because I have never before even considered wearing any school colors, not even my own (purple and white, ugh).


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

The chances of being called out are slim, but, given your level of concern, and your feeling that it really isn't right, I predict that that your elderly gentleman will accost you almost immediately, so you had better prepare an answer such as "Oral Roberts University, '97.":icon_smile_wink:


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the chances of an American identifying a scarf worn by a man on the street in the US as representing a claim to have attended a particular school are low. Put the American abroad and the scarf on a non-American local, and the chances quickly approach zero. Americans typically wear the colors they like. The tie I'm wearing today is navy with small orange stripes. I doubt anyone has ever assumed that I went to UVA because of it. 

Frankly, if an American is going to wear a piece of clothing to express affinity with a school, it will usually have the name, logo, and/or mascot prominently emblazoned on it. Often in multiple places. When it comes to affinity expressions, we don't do subtle.


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## PeterEliot (Jul 9, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> The chances of being called out are slim, but, given your level of concern, and your feeling that it really isn't right, I predict that that your elderly gentleman will accost you almost immediately, so you had better prepare an answer such as "Oral Roberts University, '97.":icon_smile_wink:


A Johnsonian prediction! :icon_smile_big: So you think it's not a big deal? I mean nobody says only Harvard grads can wear crimson and white scarves, right?


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## PeterEliot (Jul 9, 2008)

CuffDaddy said:


> I can't speak for the rest of the world, but the chances of an American identifying a scarf worn by a man on the street in the US as representing a claim to have attended a particular school are low. Put the American abroad and the scarf on a non-American local, and the chances quickly approach zero. Americans typically wear the colors they like. The tie I'm wearing today is navy with small orange stripes. I doubt anyone has ever assumed that I went to UVA because of it.
> 
> Frankly, if an American is going to wear a piece of clothing to express affinity with a school, it will usually have the name, logo, and/or mascot prominently emblazoned on it. Often in multiple places. When it comes to affinity expressions, we don't do subtle.


Got it. Thank you.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

If you wear a muffler, crafted in the colors of a school which you never attended, why that would make you a.....fan, or perhaps supporter, of said school? I doubt very much that the school would mind and am absolutely certain the producer and seller of the item in question, will be absolutely thrilled with your decision!


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## De-Boj (Jul 5, 2009)

I doubt it would ever be an issue. If J Press sold this same scarf, and called it something else, would this question even occour to you? 

Isn't this a little like not wearing a Pea Coat because you are afraid that someone will think you are a sailor? 

I say buy and wear what you like.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

PeterEliot said:


> A Johnsonian prediction! :icon_smile_big: So you think it's not a big deal? I mean nobody says only Harvard grads can wear crimson and white scarves, right?


Right, nobody cares, and we have colleges to numerous to know, adopting colors from a limited palette. PE, you are the first to allude to my sceen name, let alone my sporadic attempts to imitate him :icon_smile_wink:


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## norton (Dec 18, 2008)

My son wears a Hogwarts Gryfindor scarf and has never run into any problems, despite his being a muggle.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

In Seoul: don't even worry about it. Same would presumably go for foreign capitals (and even non-capitals) generally.

I'm going to disagree with the majority, and say that in the US, particularly in New York or other major cities, you should steer clear of that particular bit of clothing. It's not _just_ certain colors, it's an unusual item and a particular design. The notion that unaffiliated people might be "fans" or supporters of residential colleges strikes me as a bit unlikely, as the Tyng Cup standings rarely make the daily newspapers.


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

norton said:


> My son wears a Hogwarts Gryfindor scarf and has never run into any problems, despite his being a muggle.


That's because they allow mudblood spawn in their ranks. He'd never get away with a Slytherin one.

If anyone is going to recognize the colors it would be 1) an alumnus, and 2) the type of person who has the money/power to travel. I think that increases the odds of a person caring if you are wearing a Yale muffler to 1 in 900,000. If you want to be ready for that person when he accosts you for wearing something to which you have no right, find another school with similar colors, tell him that it was from that other school, and point out that it is obviously the case since Yale uses a different knitting stitch on their scarves, as any true alumnus would know.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

I suppose my navy tie could be called Yale blue, but that certainly wasn't my intention. Conversely, though, my dislike of Georgetown is great enough to preclude a navy and grey tie.


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## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

norton said:


> My son wears a Hogwarts Gryfindor scarf and has never run into any problems, despite his being a muggle.


I own the corresponding tie. I always get compliments on it until a coworker strains to see the crest at the bottom and then they usually burst into laughter and congratulate me on my sense of humor.

As to the OP's question, I don't think it matters one bit. I'm sure there are many parents of students as well as just supporters who wear a school's colors all the time. I see people around here flying UK (University of Kentucky) and OSU flags and wearing shirts all the time and they've never attended the school. I think its similar to wearing a particular tartan. Feel free to wear it, but if asked, be courteous enough to immediately be upfront by saying, "no, I did not attend, but I am a supporter and like the look of the colors". I think as long as you're not trying to pass yourself as someone you're not, you'll be ok.


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## PeterEliot (Jul 9, 2008)

amplifiedheat said:


> I suppose my navy tie could be called Yale blue, but that certainly wasn't my intention. Conversely, though, my dislike of Georgetown is great enough to preclude a navy and grey tie.


That reminds me of a navy and grey wool tie I got from BB last winter. I didn't even think about it. Doubt BB did.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

amplifiedheat said:


> my dislike of Georgetown is great enough to preclude a navy and grey tie.


That reminds me that it's been a while since I wore my G-Town colors tie... I must do so this week.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Whenever I am out on the town, and I see someone in my school's colors, I strike up a chat. If I find out they didn't really attend, I give them a good thrashing.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

We're not talking about a tie here, nor a random every-day item that just happens to bear some school's colors, but a somewhat odd bit of clothing in a particular set of colors and pattern.

Like quite a few other things one might wear, it's intended to mean something. Different items indicate different things. A "Pittsburgh Steelers" T-shirt doesn't mean anything other than "I like the Pittsburgh Steelers" (even if it's one of those goofy ones that says "Property of" and purports to be a size with a number of Xs in it that is, strictly speaking, neither accurate nor even possible); it doesn't mean you actually _play_ for the Steelers. A Super Bowl ring that says "Pittsburgh Steelers," on the other hand, is a whole 'nother thing.

Since colleges have football teams (or, in some case, so far as the general public is concerned, colleges _are_ football teams), a T-shirt with a college name is about the same thing as a Pittsburgh Steelers T-shirt.

It doesn't follow that the meaning of everything is simply support. You wouldn't wear a Phi Beta Kappa key just to indicate you're in favor of the organization. Same goes for lots of bits of clothing, regalia and insignia, some of it not very noticeable, or even obscure. It indicates membership, or at least some form of affiliation. If your daughter, or father, or brother, or girlfriend is in Berkeley College, no problem. And -as already mentioned - if you're in Seoul, you're far enough out of the jurisdiction that it doesn't matter. Otherwise: yeah, bad taste.

Nobody's going to beat you over the head for wearing the wrong thing. Nobody's going to beat you over the head for wearing flip-flops and an "I'm With Stupid" T-shirt to a wedding either (well, maybe ... depends on whose wedding it is). That wasn't the OP's question.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

I see no problem with colors, be they tie, scarf, or whatever. Same is mostly true for t-shirts--they just say you're a fan. But I wouldn't wear a tie with a logo from a school I never attended. And my greatest aversion is wearing a t-shirt from a race I've never run. I have one patient who always came back from Florida and presented me with a 7 Mile Bridge Run t-shirt for the current year. I'd thank him profusely, write a thank you note and never put them on. 

Some things you have to earn, fandom is open to all.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

De-Boj said:


> Isn't this a little like not wearing a Pea Coat because you are afraid that someone will think you are a sailor?


This is the reason I don't wear a Pea Coat. You might find me wearing a field jacket, however.

I wouldn't wear school colors if I lived near the school, since this is much more likely to result in confusion.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

It is in extremely poor taste to lay claim to membership of any institution or organisation by wearing its colours. Not only poor taste it amounts to misrepresentation that one is something one is not and entitled to the plaudits and benefits associated with that.

Sadly it is all too common in the USA which seems to have no compunction about such matters - especially if the 'owner' is not American. It is also hypocrisy as few would wear UCMC insignia to which they were not entitled.

I note that you have created this thread on Style Forum as well for whatever reason.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Peter, my advice is don't overthink problems that don't exist.

Otherwise what CuffDaddy said.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

GBR;1126070It is also hypocrisy as few would wear [B said:


> UCMC[/B] insignia to which they were not entitled.


What is UCMC? Do you mean USMC (United States Marine Corps)? Or University College MC? Whatever MC is.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

GBR said:


> It is in extremely poor taste to lay claim to membership of any institution or organisation by wearing its colours. Not only poor taste it amounts to misrepresentation that one is something one is not and entitled to the plaudits and benefits associated with that.


 There are too few discrete colors and too many organizations to make this valid. Black and gold, for instance, is claimed by a multitude of universities (Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins, Wake Forest), the U.S. 10th Cavalry Regiment and the New Orleans Saints.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Dark blue and white, hmm, Yale, UConn, Villanova, Duke, I think, Utah State, surely dozens more, plus high schools, hundreds of them. While it may be extremely poor taste to lay claim to membership in an institution by wearing its "colours," wearing a navy and white scarf hardly does that.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

DUKE blue, at least, is a very specific shade as a recent alumni magazine article points out. "Duke Blue is registered as number 287 in the Pantone® Color Matching System (https://www.pantone.com/ ). Colors in the range of Pantone® numbers 283 to 289 are used for Duke Blue. The reason for the range of numbers relates to differences in printed materials, computer applications, and textiles. The Pantone® Process Color Imaging Guide formula for Duke Blue is 100% Cyan + 69% Magenta + 0% Yellow + 11.5% Black. In a computer color palette Duke Blue is hex 00,00,9C; RGB 0,0,156; Hue=160 Saturation =240 Brightness=73."

So as long as your blue and white tie has a blue with a Pantone number under 283 or over 289 wear it in good health.

Go Duke!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

amplifiedheat said:


> There are too few discrete colors and too many organizations to make this valid. Black and gold, for instance, is claimed by a multitude of universities (Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins, Wake Forest), the U.S. 10th Cavalry Regiment and the New Orleans Saints.


I agree, there are only a finite number of colours and colour combinations that work and/or that are actually used.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

As I already mentioned, what the OP specifically asked about isn't just particular colors, it's an unusual style of scarf (at least for an adult, in this country), and a particular design.

It's not even blue and white, for that matter.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Peter, my advice is don't overthink problems that don't exist.
> 
> Otherwise what CuffDaddy said.


I'm with CDad and the Earl, Peter.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I agree that the odds of someone recognizing the school colors is slim. But that rare person who does may very well strike up a conversation.

I wouldn't wear something that had the crest of a school to which I had no connection; for some reason that crosses the line into subtle fraud.

I also am careful when I buy logo merchandise from a resort. Wearing it too close to the actual property may cause people to assume that you're a staff member, or that you grossly underpacked.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The Rambler said:


> Dark blue and white, hmm, Yale, UConn, Villanova, Duke, I think, Utah State, surely dozens more, plus high schools, hundreds of them. While it may be extremely poor taste to lay claim to membership in an institution by wearing its "colours," wearing a navy and white scarf hardly does that.


LOL, and you may feel free to add Penn State to your list of schools incorporating dark blue/navy and white as "it's colors!"


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

norton said:


> My son wears a Hogwarts Gryfindor scarf and has never run into any problems, despite his being a muggle.


The funny thing about Gryffindor colours for me is that they are also the colours of my school.... wine and gold. Infact, the uniform is identical (bar the cape!) to my old school uniform - tie, sweater, pants, scarf.... differenciated by black blazer and cap!


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

cdavant said:


> So as long as your blue and white tie has a blue with a Pantone number under 283 or over 289 wear it in good health.


This is why I wear my blue clothing only once and then throw it away. I would never want excess soil to darken, nor too much sun to lighten, my blue into the wrong shade/hue/tint/tone. I was once walking down the street as the sun was setting and was pummeled by members of the Skull and Bones because the lighting made my shirt look too much like their blue. Nevermind the fact that I was walking in Buffalo and the shirt had UB on it.

My cousin, however, chooses to live much more dangerously. He has several fake school IDs so that he can shop in their exclusive bookstores and buy all those shirts and ties that otherwise could never be sold to the public.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

MRR said:


> This is why I wear my blue clothing only once and then throw it away. I would never want excess soil to darken, nor too much sun to lighten, my blue into the wrong shade/hue/tint/tone. I was once walking down the street as the sun was setting and was pummeled by members of the Skull and Bones because the lighting made my shirt look too much like their blue. Nevermind the fact that I was walking in Buffalo and the shirt had UB on it.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Yes, even my obscure school is black and gold.



amplifiedheat said:


> There are too few discrete colors and too many organizations to make this valid. Black and gold, for instance, is claimed by a multitude of universities (Vanderbilt, Johns Hopkins, Wake Forest), the U.S. 10th Cavalry Regiment and the New Orleans Saints.


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## norton (Dec 18, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> What is UCMC? Do you mean USMC (United States Marine Corps)? Or University College MC? Whatever MC is.


Motorcycle Club. So its University College Motorcycle Club. They're real bad asses.

And you can get into serious trouble wearing colors you are not entitled to wear on the back of a leather jacket or denim vest.


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

Wear it. No serious person is going to care.

Funny side story about logos. A few years ago, there was a fad among Tokyo teens, to wear silk bomber jackets with the logo of the Alona Gay. It wasn't any kind of statement about nuclear bombs, they just liked the logo.:icon_smile:


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Enola Gay.

Unless there's something I've never heard of named "Alona Gay," which might be related to the mysterious UCMC.

And I'd bet money that the Tokyo teens who introduced the practice - though almost certainly not "making a statement about nuclear bombs" - were trying to establish hipness by being edgy and ironic. Those who followed were more likely just imitating cool kids without any idea what they were doing.

Among other things, I don't think the Enola Gay even _had_ a "logo," other than the wrods "Enola Gay" in black all-caps letters ... which is hardly something one could like just as logo, divorced of any associations. Since it was named after the pilot's mother, the absence of a pinup-princess style image should not come as a surprise. These mysterious Tokyo teens presumably took some other logo and applied the Enola Gay name to it, which suggests they understood the name's associations (at least the leaders, if not the followers).


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

You are correct about the spelling of the planes name.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

The Rambler said:


> Dark blue and white, hmm, Yale, UConn, Villanova, Duke, I think, Utah State, surely dozens more, plus high schools, hundreds of them. While it may be extremely poor taste to lay claim to membership in an institution by wearing its "colours," wearing a navy and white scarf hardly does that.


The OP was referencing the Yale-Berkeley College scarf, not the Yale University scarf. The colors aren't blue and white:

https://www.yale.edu/berkeley/

This would seem to reduce the odds of even a die-hard Yalie identifying the scarf as communicating an association with the University. I don't know whether that changes the analysis but it's worth pointing out.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Taliesin said:


> The OP was referencing the Yale-Berkeley College scarf, not the Yale University scarf. The colors aren't blue and white.


Yeah, I've pointed it out, as well as that it's not just colors and it's not a tie, and associated other things. Nobody cares.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

I should also note that apparent meaning depends on where you are (geographically, sociologically, etc.). Thus the suggestion that, since the OP is in Seoul, it doesn't matter.

For example - going off the original topic here, to run counter to some broadly asserted off-topic conclusions by others:

Wear a purple and gold tie in Seattle, and it _will_ be understood to refer to the University of Washington by most everyone who sees it. This may not be in bad taste or unappreciated, since in some eyes it's a football team to root for first, and a University to go to only incidentally. But, at least in the relevant geographical area, the U certainly does "own" those colors (as well as the name "the U").

In fact, I can tell you from experience, that if you so much as wear a purple polo shirt in a public place, random strangers will come up to you and attempt to discuss upcoming games.


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

A most amusing thread. As many have pointed out, colors are shared by many schools. Even very specific items, for example USA collage blazer badges with a school shields, have a meaning here in the USA that they do not have world wide. Many shops in the USA sell ties that have authentic English regimental stripes. An Englishman would never wear a Guards Regiment tie if he or his family had no connection to the Guards Regiment. On this side of the Atlantic the Guards pattern is just a tie. Similarly we have had many Japanese customers who would buy the blazer badges for 5 or 6 Ivy League schools because in Japan they are worn the way we wear English regimental ties in this country. I think one should be aware of the meaning of a design for your surroundings. If it fits where you reside, I would not be concerned with the few visitors- the English visitor to the USA who questions your wearing a Guards Pattern tie - who question it. This thread has inspired my most recent Blog entry ( www.chipp2.com/blog/ )
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
www.chipp2.com/blog/


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## dwebber18 (Jun 5, 2008)

My college was blue and white as well, with red as the secondary color so it would be silly to call it out. I'd say your fine, I mean I have some rep ties I've acquired that I'm sure are the colors of someones school but I don't hesitate to wear them. You'll be fine as I'm sure no one would ever notice


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

*Stolen Valor Act struck*

As of this week it's legal to fake a military record. You can claim all the awards people will believe.

Kind of crumby but part of the price we pay for free speech.


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## cglex (Oct 23, 2006)

In Korea, wearing the school colors of a US school you didn't attend shouldn't matter at all. In the US, doing so only matters when you wish it didn't.


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

beherethen said:


> As of this week it's legal to fake a military record. You can claim all the awards people will believe.
> 
> Kind of crumby but part of the price we pay for free speech.


It's not illegal to claim it, but it is illegal to present the medal or attempt to procure the medal (any medal for that matter).


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

Back on topic though...

Wearing colors is generally a non-issue. Only so many color combinations available, and the chances of anyone actually asking is slim to none.

If I were wearing a Maroon & White scarf (John Marshall High School), how many other places could claim it as their own? In the US, the possibilities are endless.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

beherethen said:


> As of this week it's legal to fake a military record. You can claim all the awards people will believe.


My CO back in Incheon never would have stood for this.:icon_smile_wink:


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm going to go ahead and clear you to wear burnt orange. I know how much you've been wanting to.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Starch said:


> Yeah, I've pointed it out, as well as that it's not just colors and it's not a tie, and associated other things. Nobody cares.


nobody cares about colors of a scarf, or nobody cares about your excellent opinions?


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## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

As a Yalie who has lived abroad, I think many of the posters here seriously underestimate the likelihood of running into fellow alum abroad and the very real possibility of a college scarf being identified. I've seen and recognized fellow Yalie's everyplace from the Champs de Mars to Vientiane. 

That being said, it's troubling that the first answers all center on the likelihood of being caught, rather than the propriety (or ethics) of wearing the colors of a school or organization to which the wearer does not belong. Is that a mark of a decline in values or a post-modern nation of appropriators?

To be fair, as the esteemed Mr. Winston has pointed out, we unknowingly wear many regimental ties (and watchbands) here that would be considered highly inappropriate in England. There is a story about Jimmi Hendrix being called out but outraged members of the unit whose dress jacket he was wearing. Hmmm--how did they know he hadn't served? What were the odds? 

I think most of us would happily allow Mr. Hendrix to wear the jacket, and impute no disrespect. However, as someone who also served in a Highland regiment with a long and illustrious history, and many many honored dead, it would bother me greatly to see someone wearing the regimental tie or the regimental badge who hadn't served. There is a sense that you earn the right to wear these things, like a letterman jacket, a Phi Betta Kappa key, etc.

While these are only scarves, and only clothes, to state the obvious, we wear them for more than utilitarian purposes. They have symbolic and totemic significance and power. No one is buying a Yale College scarf simply because they like the colors or think it is the most efficient way to keep warm: any more than Japanese fans of Take Ivy are wearing penny loafers or madras because they are the most practical clothes for Tokyo. Personally I think these scarves look terribly silly on anyone not in college, but I do feel my 4 years there earns me the right to look silly--on occasion. 

For the rest of you, feel free to make yourselves look silly and feel like a poser. I grant thee leave...


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## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

Meh. It's about the spirit in which you wear it. My non-Spanish brother wore a Spanish jersey during the World Cup of Socc... er... Football. I suspect most Spaniards would approve. As would most pro athletes when it comes to fans wearing store-bought jerseys. On the other hand, young anarchists sporting the U.S. flag as a bandana to hide their faces while they riot and loot... not so cool to most Americans. Especially to those who served in uniform.

So, wearing Harvard or Yale or Hogwarts colours, in order to honour the institutions? Hey, if it floats your boat... 

And as far as *earning it* is concerned... I'm not sure how many eighteen-year-olds have actually *earned* thirty thousand dollars for their first year's tuition at an elite college, anyway. So let's not get too snooty, now. K?


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Schools, and colors

I got that thing on Duke blue in the last alumna magagine! I founf that pretty neat. On the otherhand, everyone is most definitely wearing Duke Basketball sweatshirts, and I feel great abouth that.

Gentlemen, have no qualms with wearing school colors, or even military. I seem to disagree with some of our British friends in regards to their colors. I find some Very beautiful, the Argyle Sutherland colors for instance.
Again, served myself and worked with the British years ago, and feel comfortable wearing beautiful, striped ties.

Simply put, you have your school colors, and you graduated, you then wear. I feel a tie, or muffler still does not carry the warmth, the feeling of joy an individual has anyway. Serving with a certain military regiment, or going to school.

I am proud of what I did in the service, a tie does not reflect this feeling anyway. It is the wearer that does.
I call this military bearing, and a good soldier witll see this, a good Marine or on and on


Later


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

dport86 said:


> There is a story about Jimmi Hendrix being called out but outraged members of the unit whose dress jacket he was wearing. Hmmm--how did they know he hadn't served? What were the odds?


Total sidelight, but: Hendrix did serve, in the 101st Airborne. So I assume he could rightly wear such of its insignia as would be appropriate for a private who was dishonorably discharged after 13 months.

As noted yet again:
- the scarf in question is a schoolboy muffler - an item which, in my experience, is almost never worn by an adult _except_ as a totem or insignia;
- the colors and design don't indicate Yale generally, but Berkeley College, which is one of Yale's residential colleges;
- the likelihood that any non-alum is wearing a Berkeley College schoolboy muffler to show support for its intramural sports teams is sufficiently close to zero that I think we can round it down to that.

On the other hand, I think that when you cross international borders it's fair to throw all the rulebooks (of taste, propriety, basketball, etc.) out the window. On the other hand (or maybe it's the same hand) this defenestration also results in things like sex tourism and the Eurovision song contest.



> For the rest of you, feel free to make yourselves look silly and feel like a poser. I grant thee leave...


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## CLTesquire (Jul 23, 2010)

I wear my school colors (garnet & black) with pride but don't begrudge those wearing the same thing that didn't go to school there. In fact, if I see someone wearing the same colors I don't even ask if they went to the same school. Some color combinations just look good (not orange and white however)...probably why a certain school adopted them as their school colors.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

get over it


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

dport86 said:


> As a Yalie who has lived abroad, I think many of the posters here seriously underestimate the likelihood of running into fellow alum abroad and the very real possibility of a college scarf being identified. I've seen and recognized fellow Yalie's everyplace from the Champs de Mars to Vientiane.
> 
> That being said, it's troubling that the first answers all center on the likelihood of being caught, rather than the propriety (or ethics) of wearing the colors of a school or organization to which the wearer does not belong. Is that a mark of a decline in values or a post-modern nation of appropriators?
> 
> ...


sorry, last post meant to include the above quotation: get over it


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

dport86 said:


> As a Yalie who has lived abroad, I think many of the posters here seriously underestimate the likelihood of running into fellow alum abroad and the very real possibility of a college scarf being identified. I've seen and recognized fellow Yalie's everyplace from the Champs de Mars to Vientiane.
> 
> That being said, it's troubling that the first answers all center on the likelihood of being caught, rather than the propriety (or ethics) of wearing the colors of a school or organization to which the wearer does not belong. Is that a mark of a decline in values or a post-modern nation of appropriators?
> 
> ...


There's a difference between wearing something that anyone can buy in a shop, even if it's only in a college bookstore that's open to the public, and something that is given by some form of authority to recipients of an honor or as recognition of an accomplishment.

Wearing a college ring, for example, implies attendance and graduation at the school signified. A sweatshirt doesn't.

A friend went to an Ivy League school, and whenever he sees someone wearing an article of clothing with the name spelled out, he inquires if they went there. Usually it turns out that a relative bought them the item at the campus bookstore as a Christmas present. If he saw someone wearing the school colours, he might be inclined to wonder, but he wouldn't think to ask the person if they attended the same college with him.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

> ... wearing something that anyone can buy in a shop, even if it's only in a college bookstore that's open to the public...


So this is okay for anyone to buy and wear?


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Starch said:


> So this is okay for anyone to buy and wear?


A college ring typically is quite costly and has one's degree and year of graduation on it (mine does, at any rate); a T-shirt or a striped scarf does not. These cheap and non-individualized items simply don't imply the same kind of personal history or institutional affiliation that a class ring does.


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

Concerning, wearing another schools colors or emblems. It doesn't matter. Here in Texas, there are so many people who wear Texas colors or Texas A&M colors, most graduates are proud to see people wear the maroon and white, or the burnt orange and white. Go into the parking lot at my school and there are A&M and longhorn stickers in the windows of nearly every kid's vehicle. Most of the kids are not going to either school. If they attend college, they will attend the local university, which is affordable and assessable for my small town kids. ( And has a hell of a chemical and electrical engineering programs.) I can't say I have heard of anyone griping or complaining about someone wearing the colors or the school mascot. 
If I were to wear the colors of my university in a scarf, tie etc. I could be confused for a graduate of Universities of Houston, Nebraska, Oklahoma, or Stanford, Cornell etc......
Concerning offending someone because you wear the colors of another school, don't worry about it.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

I don't want to jump on someone new, but you haven't read the thread (not that very many other people who've posted have either).

On other points:

* The cost doesn't matter. A cheap item that indicates an affiliation you don't have is no less egregious than a costly item that does. If anything, I suppose if the item is costly enough (and assuming you bought it from the institution in question), then buying it, all by itself, creates a sufficient affiliation. For example, I'm pretty sure you can buy a building for a college you didn't attend with impunity, and even slap your name on it.

* Whether it's _possible_ to obtain the item, even if you lack the affiliation, is also irrelevant. That essentially breaks down into saying anything you _can_ do is appropriate to do (in this respect). You _can_ buy, for 10 bucks or so, a license plate frame that says: "Alumnus - [Any University Name You Want]." You can also purchase class rings for many institutions; yes, it costs something, though no more than it costs a legit graduate. Presumably the cost is easier for the non-grad to justify, as a real alum already has most of the benefits of the affiliation, without the need to advertise in order to foster a misimpression.

The real question is: is it an item that indicates an affiliation you don't have?

There are several pieces to this:

_The Item Itself_. Some things, like (say) plain old everyday blue blazers, are commonly worn by everyone. They don't indicate an affiliation with Yale or Andover or any school that has dark blue as its school color.

Others are not: the schoolboy mufflers that this thread is about are not commonly worn by adults. Indeed, they're rarely worn. The muffler in question isn't just particular colors, it has a particular pattern of stripes. The Gryffindor example above actually supports this. If you wear it, people realize it's something "special" and not just an ordinary, everyday item of apparel. Of course, it's really a joke item, since the institution is entirely fictional ... but there wouldn't be any joke if it was just a scarf.

It's also not hard for the buyer to figure out that the particular muffler the OP asked about has an institutional association. There is (so far as I know) only one store that sells it; they refer to it as a "Berkeley College" muffler; it has a tag sewn into it that says "BERKELEY COLLEGE."

True, the reference to Berkeley College isn't obvious to most people. That doesn't mean it isn't there. Many people prefer more subtle indications of affiliation: a schoolboy muffler with a particular stripe, rather than (say) a sweatshirt that screams YALE or OXFORD across the front. True, most people who see the muffler won't know what it is. Most people don't know what a Porcellian tie looks like either, but I wouldn't wear one. For that matter, if one were to put on a T-Shirt that says "Branford College" or "Ezra Stiles College" in huge letters across the front, it would have a very specific meaning, even though the vast majority of people who saw it wouldn't know what it is.

_The Context_. Actually, this isn't really a factor with the particular item, except insofar as the OP is planning to wear it in Seoul, where I think none of these rules apply. Where you happen to be, and the situation in which you're wearing something can be factor. For example, in the US almost everyone who wears neckties sometimes wears striped ones. As a result, wearing a striped tie in the US with some combination of colors ordinarily doesn't mean anything; the situation would be different in England. It's also sometimes different in the US, depending on where you are and what's going on. A purple and gold tie in Seattle means University of Washington (partly because purple is a slightly uncommon color, I suppose), but probably means nothing in Chicago. Even a bland blue and white tie means Yale if you happen to be wearing it at a tailgate party before a Yale football game, though perhaps only that you're a fan.

_The Affiliation_. Different items, in relation to different institutions, indicate a different degree of affiliation. A shirt that says "Hook 'Em Horns" or "Go Irish!" doesn't indicate any affiliation other than being a fan. A ring, on the other hand, says you are an alumnus. Other items (even cheap ones) with the name, or a symbol associated with the institution _plus_ a class year indicate you're an alumnus (or, possibly, that your parent or child or girlfriend is).

The degree of affiliation that's claimed is greater: (a) the more specific the reference is and (b) the less likely a mere "fandom" affiliation is. I'd argue (though not strenuously) that a sweatshirt that says "Harvard" is kind of lame on someone who has no association with Harvard; a sweatshirt that says "Harvard Law School" much more clearly is. An item that's intended to indicate an affiliation with Berkeley College is quite specific, and really can't possibly be a sign of mere fandom.


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

I understand where you are coming from, Mr. Starch. 
There are plenty of people who live in Texas in which the Longhorn or Aggie sticker implies they went/graduated from one of the two schools. They want you to _think _they went there....It is like the kids who have the stickers on the back on their cars. They _think_ they are going to either Austin or College Station to school. Hell, their parents think little "Dimwit" is going to to make it through A&M's School of Veterinary Medicine. They are shocked when they either don't get into either A&M's undergraduate program, or the vet school.( In thirty years, I have ex-students who are doctors, lawyers, dentists, bankers, I have never taught a kid who is a veterinarian. The one who really wanted to be a vet is now in medical school in South Carolina.)
We know there are plenty out there who claim they went to Texas, but never went, and unless they are using the claim to receive financial gain, who really cares?
( On the other hand, if they are wearing the class ring, they are suffering some sort of delusion.)
BTW: Don't worry about jumping on me, I'll be chewed out for working some parent's "little darling" too hard before September is over.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

govteach51 said:


> I understand where you are coming from, Mr. Starch.
> There are plenty of people who live in Texas in which the Longhorn or Aggie sticker implies they went/graduated from one of the two schools. They want you to _think _they went there....It is like the kids who have the stickers on the back on their cars. They _think_ they are going to either Austin or College Station to school. Hell, their parents think little "Dimwit" is going to to make it through A&M's School of Veterinary Medicine. They are shocked when they either don't get into either A&M's undergraduate program, or the vet school.( In thirty years, I have ex-students who are doctors, lawyers, dentists, bankers, I have never taught a kid who is a veterinarian. The one who really wanted to be a vet is now in medical school in South Carolina.)
> We know there are plenty out there who claim they went to Texas, but never went, and unless they are using the claim to receive financial gain, who really cares?
> ( On the other hand, if they are wearing the class ring, they are suffering some sort of delusion.)
> BTW: Don't worry about jumping on me, I'll be chewed out for working some parent's "little darling" too hard before September is over.


 But we know a Texas grad would likely never wear his class ring! Aggie, however... Either way, I tend to think people don't try to fake it, so much as they support one school or another (athletically). I could be wrong, though. Anyway, as someone on my 2nd Texas degree, I fully support everyone wearing our colors and buying longhorn logos (even to turn them upside down); please continue putting money in our coffers!


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> But we know a Texas grad would likely never wear his class ring! Aggie, however... Either way, I tend to think people don't try to fake it, so much as they support one school or another (athletically). I could be wrong, though. Anyway, as someone on my 2nd Texas degree, I fully support everyone wearing our colors and buying longhorn logos (even to turn them upside down); please continue putting money in our coffers!


Yes, you know how those Aggies are about their class rings.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Starch said:


> plain old everyday blue blazers . . . . don't indicate an affiliation with Yale or Andover or any school that has dark blue as its school color.


I am relieved to hear that.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

I don't want to jump on someone new...



Starch said:


> So this is okay for anyone to buy and wear?


Class rings may be sold through the campus bookstore, but in my experience they validate that you're entitled to it.

A friend has a state-issued Georgia Tech license plate and will often be seen during football season wearing navy and gold. He was one asked if he went to Tech, and when he said no, the person said with a sneer, "oh, so where _did _you go to college?"

Dartmouth. The James Madison U graduate who asked the question spent the rest of his visit to Atlanta researching the college trying to convince himself that my friend was lying.


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

I don't know......this doesn't bother me as much as it does other people....I guess it is due to the fact that every year some parent tells me in a conference that they graduated/went to X or Y or Z college. After about 30 seconds, you know this person has never even been through a college for a tour. Just what am I supposed to do? Question them about their academic career? If they want to feel better in a conference by telling me they have college, that they're an alumni of my university, what am I supposed to do, call them a d#mn liar? 
Look it is to the point to protect their kid, many just flat out lie. " I know my kid didn't cut and paste three pages of that term paper." " My kid was sick in bed and couldn't do their homework." ( Never mind I saw the kid eating a hamburger and kissing his girlfriend that same night.) 
I have bigger worries than where someone went to college.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Every time I see this thread, my first response is: Hey, we fought a war to be independent of old world elitist classist crap like this. Part of what makes these United States great is that we have largely abandoned the style and trappings of inherited power and instead rely on the power of individual liberty and free markets (individual achievements).

Wear what you like, but don't claim to have done things you haven't done.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

I want to quietly pass myself off as a protestant.

To that end, I sought to purchase a scarf from the Bob Jones University.

Unfortunately the only university clothing they appear to sell are T shirts. So achieving my first aim would require me to lower my dress standards.


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

J.Marko said:


> Every time I see this thread, my first response is: Hey, we fought a war to be independent of old world elitist classist crap like this.


 Sadly, I'm pretty sure that we fought the war so that WE could be elitist, instead of having others be elitist over us. We just have the notion that our elitism is earned, instead of passed by blood.

I understand people feeling that they have EARNED the right to wear certain things. Particular military garb is a fine example, class rings too. But if you are of the opinion that school colors* cannot be worn unless you graduated from, or at least went to, a particular school, then you should start a campaign to force that school's bookstore to not sell those item to others. You cannot sit quietly while your school makes money off of its marketing and then be upset that other people are buying the items**. That's like having a government run adult bookstore and then incarcerating anyone who comes in and makes a purchase. Fight the cause, don't complain about a symptom.

* I will never understand the argument that people cannot wear certain colors when just about any color combination can be associated with several colleges and several dozen high schools. However, the mufflers in question also seem to have specific patterns, which IMO make them more unique and could associate them with a particular school.

** a bookstore selling a school ring to the general public is a problem. Those absolutely should be earned and worn only by; said earner, a male earner's girlfriend, or an earner's family member upon death (for limited mourning purposes).


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## Beardmidget (Jul 7, 2010)

I attended what might be described as a 'famous' university here in Britain, in a place where tourists are specifically attracted to the city because of the university (no prizes for guessing, but if anyone calls me a 'tab I will have to cut them.). 

The way one was able to easily distinguish between students and tourists was that the tourists all trolled round with sweatshirts/t-shirts/hoodies etc. which had the name of the institution emblazoned in foot high letters across the chest. To my knowledge, no student in all the 843 years of its existence has actually purchased one of said garments for themselves.

As long as it doesn't go in the CV, you can wear what you damn well like.


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## Beardmidget (Jul 7, 2010)

Kingstonian said:


> I want to quietly pass myself off as a protestant.
> 
> To that end, I sought to purchase a scarf from the Bob Jones University.
> 
> Unfortunately the only university clothing they appear to sell are T shirts. So achieving my first aim would require me to lower my dress standards.


I believe that the item below comes in a variety of styles and colours, and will mark you out as both a protestant _and_ well mannered.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

LOL. With several diplomas, certifying the award of multiple degrees, and two shadow boxes showcasing the detritus of two past careers, hanging on the walls of my study and being largely retired these days; I found am getting bored and considering a return to the campus as a means of occupying my mind. However, having read this thread and accepting the fact that virtually every hue in the color spectrum has been claimed by one or several schools as their very own, I find myself distressed by the reality that regardless of what I wear, I will probably step on one or several toes in the process. Therefore, should you see me on your campus, I guess by default I will be the "emperor with no clothes!"


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Beardmidget said:


> I believe that the item below comes in a variety of styles and colours, and will mark you out as both a protestant _and_ well mannered.


It does not matter now as I have decided to buy a Masonic tie instead.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

govteach51 said:


> Here in Texas, there are so many people who wear Texas colors or Texas A&M colors, most graduates are proud to see people wear the maroon and white, or the burnt orange and white. Go into the parking lot at my school and there are A&M and longhorn stickers in the windows of nearly every kid's vehicle.


These folks are commonly referred to as "sidewalk alumni" and they are found all over the U.S.. In fact I would go so far as to say that there are far more sidewalk alumni then there are actual graduates of the schools. The schools, especially the big football and basketball schools, love it. Go travel through the State of Kentucky during basketball season, it's a sea of blue. Does anybody really believe that all of those people graduated from UK?

Cruiser


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> These folks are commonly referred to as "sidewalk alumni" and they are found all over the U.S.. In fact I would go so far as to say that there are far more sidewalk alumni then there are actual graduates of the schools. The schools, especially the big football and basketball schools, love it. Go travel through the State of Kentucky during basketball season, it's a sea of blue. Does anybody really believe that all of those people graduated from UK?
> 
> Cruiser


In the Northeast and Upper Midwest, they call them "subway alumni," but it's the same concept. One peek into the Hammes Bookstore at Notre Dame is enough to make you realize that you could, if you so wished, furnish the material trappings of your entire life from dawn to dusk and cradle to grave out of ND-logo materials, which the University would be more than delighted to sell you. I think they have Southern Cal toilet paper, but everything else is ND-this and ND-that, from Golden Dome dish towels and tea cozies shaped like pugilistic leprechauns to lampshades representing the head of Knute Rockne and pajamas with Ara Parseghian's picture on them. A veritable ocean of bric-a-brac.


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> It does not matter now as I have decided to buy a Masonic tie instead.


 Perfect. I have a very nice Bavarian Illuminati watch and Society of Assassins blazer to go with it. I don't need them any more, since they clash with my Gnomes of Zurich money clip.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

MRR said:


> Perfect. I have a very nice Bavarian Illuminati watch and Society of Assassins blazer to go with it. I don't need them any more, since they clash with my Gnomes of Zurich money clip.


Teamed with a Trilateral Commission commemorative belt buckle and a set of Bilderbergers cufflinks, these items will set off your Skull and Bones secret-decoder ring and Area 51 lapel pin perfectly. (PM me and I'll explain the secret grip--Klaatu barada nikto.)


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

I now officially love this thread.


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

Kingstonian said:


> I want to quietly pass myself off as a protestant.
> 
> To that end, I sought to purchase a scarf from the Bob Jones University.
> 
> Unfortunately the only university clothing they appear to sell are T shirts. So achieving my first aim would require me to lower my dress standards.


That's easy enough to take care of, pick another Protestant university with money, for example, Baylor or Southern Methodist. Lord knows there are plenty of rich frat guys who dress Southern Trad there, and if you dress a little better, they'll simply think you're an alumni who did well after graduation.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

J.Marko said:


> I now officially love this thread.


Sure, but will it be enough to send the "Black Suit Myth" thread off to the Bermuda Triangle where it belongs?


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Sure, but will it be enough to send the "Black Suit Myth" thread off to the Bermuda Triangle where it belongs?


 Conservative, Fanatic, and Weird?


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Sure, but will it be enough to send the "Black Suit Myth" thread off to the Bermuda Triangle where it belongs?


Unfortunately, I doubt it. Especially since I keep feeding the troll.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

So: wearing pants hemmed an 1/8" too long or too short, or mismatching a belt and shoes, or taking off one's jacket at the wrong time are matters of Grave Import worthy of Serious Discussion, but being a poser and a doofus is a non-issue in the absence of a legal impediment against doing so?

If nobody cared about the taste and propriety of wearing particular things in particular situations, this forum would have about eight active threads, and most of them would be about how to care for shoe leather.

True story: my sister used to have a boyfriend who would have tailgate parties before University of Washington football games, dress up in all manner of purple-and-gold attire, festoon his car with pennants, streamers and pom poms, and even parade around with his actual living-and-breathing husky dog similarly attired. Turned out he didn't go to the UW at all, but Washington State (which I can say - having no association with either university - is the "lower rung" state school).
- Did anyone slap him or confiscate his finery (or his dog)? No.
- Did people happily snarf up his husky-shaped hors d'ouevres and toss back drinks from his purple and yellow cups? Certainly.
- Did the same people tacitly wonder how he came to be so goofy? Yep.
- Did the rest of my family breathe a sigh of relief when my sister married someone else? Of course.


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## Beardmidget (Jul 7, 2010)

Starch said:


> True story: my sister used to have a boyfriend who would have tailgate parties before University of Washington football games, dress up in all manner of purple-and-gold attire, festoon his car with pennants, streamers and pom poms, and even parade around with his actual living-and-breathing husky dog similarly attired. Turned out he didn't go to the UW at all, but Washington State (which I can say - having no association with either university - is the "lower rung" state school).
> - Did anyone slap him or confiscate his finery (or his dog)? No.
> - Did people happily snarf up his husky-shaped hors d'ouevres and toss back drinks from his purple and yellow cups? Certainly.
> - Did the same people tacitly wonder how he came to be so goofy? Yep.
> - Did the rest of my family breathe a sigh of relief when my sister married someone else? Of course.


Are we confusing issues of_ aesthetics_ with those of _athletics_ mayhap?


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Taliesin said:


> The OP was referencing the Yale-Berkeley College scarf, not the Yale University scarf. The colors aren't blue and white:
> 
> https://www.yale.edu/berkeley/
> 
> This would seem to reduce the odds of even a die-hard Yalie identifying the scarf as communicating an association with the University. I don't know whether that changes the analysis but it's worth pointing out.


As an alum, I think this post is dead-on. Most alums wouldn't recognize their own residential college colors, and even if they did, I doubt that any would care. A residential college is the equivalent of a dorm. You don't have to have done anything to gain the affiliation, you're assigned a college as a freshman.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Starch said:


> So: wearing pants hemmed an 1/8" too long or too short, or mismatching a belt and shoes, or taking off one's jacket at the wrong time are matters of Grave Import worthy of Serious Discussion, but being a poser and a doofus is a non-issue in the absence of a legal impediment against doing so?


I guess we disagree that wearing a scarf in the colors of a collage make you a poser and a doofus. I don't think anyone here is supporting being a poser and claiming you went to a school you didn't go to. If said scarf had a school crest embroidered thereon that could change the opinions, but it doesn't look like even that would make a difference to many. Apparently you can be a fan without being a poser doofus.

Personally, I never wear anything with the name of a school on it, or any other words or pictures on my clothes (I still have a couple grey T-shirts that say ARMY on them, but I don't wear them much any more since the guys and gals now serving are doing so much more than I ever did). I do have a couple shirts with the golden fleece emblem, but I would remove the emblem if I could. I have some ties that are probably British regimental or school colors, but I am not wearing them to claim that I am associated with those organizations. I just like the colors.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

J.Marko said:


> Personally, I never wear anything with the name of a school on it


Can I assume that you think it's OK for me to wear my shirts that say "Tennessee Titans" on them, even though I never actually played for the Titans? One of them was a gift to me from the Titans and I assume that they meant for me to wear it. On the other hand playing for the Titans is probably a more exclusive and difficult endeavor than getting into most colleges. Dang, now I don't know what to do.

On a more serious note, just about every school that I've had any contact with encourages people to wear their shirts. In fact they actively market them to the general public in department stores, not only in adult sizes but in infant and child sizes also. If the schools themselves don't care, I don't see why anyone else should. After all I don't think there are very many people out there who think that wearing a school shirt means that you actually attended that school. It just means that you are a supporter of the school.

Cruiser


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

Starch said:


> So: wearing pants hemmed an 1/8" too long or too short, or mismatching a belt and shoes, or taking off one's jacket at the wrong time are matters of Grave Import worthy of Serious Discussion, but being a poser and a doofus is a non-issue in the absence of a legal impediment against doing so?
> 
> If nobody cared about the taste and propriety of wearing particular things in particular situations, this forum would have about eight active threads, and most of them would be about how to care for shoe leather.
> 
> ...


So, is Washington State a "Lower Rung" because it is primarily an agricultural and engineering school? Or because the school is a "weak sister" in the PAC-10?


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

About three weeks ago:



> A "Pittsburgh Steelers" T-shirt doesn't mean anything other than "I like the Pittsburgh Steelers" (even if it's one of those goofy ones that says "Property of" and purports to be a size with a number of Xs in it that is, strictly speaking, neither accurate nor even possible); it doesn't mean you actually _play_ for the Steelers.


The same would apply to the Titans, I think, even if - like most people - you don't have the sort of relationship that warrants gift-giving.



> Since colleges have football teams (or, in some case, so far as the general public is concerned, colleges _are_ football teams), a T-shirt with a college name is about the same thing as a Pittsburgh Steelers T-shirt.
> 
> It doesn't follow that the meaning of everything is simply support.


College T-shirts depend on the school, how good its sports teams are, and where and how you're wearing the shirt.

Wearing a college T-shirt to a funeral, for example, would usually be considered a _tref_ move ... perhaps not as much if the deceased was an alum; somewhat more so if you weren't wearing anything _but_ the T-shirt (though, even then, it might work if the wearer were the deceased's 19-year-old mistress).

Wearing an Oxford T-shirt (or even a Harvard T-shirt) is a lot less likely motivated by one's rooting interest than by a desire to look "classy."


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

> So, is Washington State ...


I guess a combination of history, lower admission standards, agricultural school (not so much engineering, I think, as the same could be said of the University of Washington) and location in the middle of silos and cows instead of Starbucks and hipsters.

The weak-sisterhood is probably also a factor, though they're not so weak (particularly relatively) lately: they did, after all, appear in the Rose Bowl twice since 1931.

Which reminds me of a quip by a local columnist in the lead-up to WSU's game against Michigan in 1998. Not an exact quote, but the gist was something like: "Statistically, a holder of an advanced degree is more likely to have attended Michigan at some point than any other university in the country; just as statistically, the guy loading lumber onto your car most likely attended WSU."


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> Can I assume that you think it's OK for me to wear my shirts that say "Tennessee Titans" on them, even though I never actually played for the Titans?


Actually, to be fair to me I don't think you can assume anything about what I think it is ok for you to wear based on my post about me not wanting to wear clothing with logos or words on them. I almost never wear logo clothing from the schools I attended, or for clothing designers or for places I have visited or teams I like. I am not sure why I don't wear them, but I do know I feel like a tool when I do wear them. When wearing a logo, I feel I am either trying to show off what I have done or show that I am a fan. Since I hardly ever want to do either of these things, I don't wear it. But that is me. If you don't feel like a tool wearing something, then by all means wear it! I will think no worse of you for doing so.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Sigh.

OP never brought up logos or t-shirts. How'd we get to this?



J.Marko said:


> Actually, to be fair to me I don't think you can assume anything about what I think it is ok for you to wear based on my post about me not wanting to wear clothing with logos or words on them. I almost never wear logo clothing from the schools I attended, or for clothing designers or for places I have visited or teams I like. I am not sure why I don't wear them, but I do know I feel like a tool when I do wear them. When wearing a logo, I feel I am either trying to show off what I have done or show that I am a fan. Since I hardly ever want to do either of these things, I don't wear it. But that is me. If you don't feel like a tool wearing something, then by all means wear it! I will think no worse of you for doing so.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> One of them was a gift to me from the Titans and I assume that they meant for me to wear it.


 I have to think there's a story here.


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## govteach51 (Aug 3, 2010)

So, I have a friend who worked in the office of the Dallas Cowboys when the Cowboys won the Super Bowl. He was not a player or coach, yet he received a ring. He wears it proudly. Based on most of the thought on this site, should he stop?


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

J.Marko said:


> Actually, to be fair to me I don't think you can assume anything about what I think it is ok for you to wear based on my post about me not wanting to wear clothing with logos or words on them.


And to be fair to me it was a rhetorical question. I wasn't seeking an answer. In fact, before it came up in this forum I never even knew that it was a question for anybody. I made my decision on this decades ago. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> And to be fair to me it was a rhetorical question. I wasn't seeking an answer. In fact, before it came up in this forum I never even knew that it was a question for anybody. I made my decision on this decades ago. :icon_smile:
> 
> Cruiser


Ok, that sounds good! I am certainly not trying to set myself up as the clothing police, just sharing my thoughts such as they are. I think I am somehow coming across as on both sides of the issue. That does happen sometimes, my philosophy slip is showing.

Sorry if I have taken this too far afield, I tend to ramble on when given the chance.


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

Starch said:


> So: (1) wearing pants hemmed an 1/8" too long or too short, or mismatching a belt and shoes, or taking off one's jacket at the wrong time are matters of Grave Import worthy of Serious Discussion, but (2) being a poser and a doofus is a non-issue in the absence of a legal impediment against doing so?


Issue 1. People come to this site to learn how to wear clothing. Letting people understand where the break in the pants should be is important for that. As is knowing when to take off a jacket.

The OP did not ask HOW to wear the scarf. But that would be a nice discussion too.

Issue 2. I think that EVERYBODY agrees that the OP (or anyone) should NOT be a poser. The question becomes; is one a poser for wearing a scarf with school colors. Note; we are only talking about colors, not crest or name. I say that, since many schools share the same colors, and the scarfs are available to the public, anyone can wear them. I am not advocating that anyone can wear them and then claim to be an alumnus.

I see no reason why someone cannot wear a scarf of whatever color combination (s)he chooses. If a particular school has a SPECIFIC pattern or weave to said scarf, then I think that only an alumnus/student should wear it. But, if that school sells those scarfs to the general public, they loose the right to be all elitist about the scarfs.

Again, had the OP said "I found this great Yale scarf. I never went there but I want people to think that I did. Is there a specific knot I should use when wearing it to make it look more authentic?", then the responses here would have been quite different. But the OP simply liked the colors.

As to your sister's old boyfriend. He is a fan of the school and their sports team. From your story, he seems to only portray himself as such, and not as a student. I personally find this type of fan (student or not) to be ridiculous.:icon_smile_wink:


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## AskDandy (Jul 3, 2010)

I really don't see the fuss, except for a misplaced sense of school pride expressing itself as vain snobbery. Though not Scottish myself, I have family members who are Scots. Their ancestors _bled_ for the right to wear their family tartan. Yet they don't get upset when someone walks by wearing a plaid shirt. For that matter, except in the somewhat unique case of Campbells and MacDonalds, who perhaps wouldn't want to wear each others' colours, even in Scotland itself I didn't get the sense anyone would be offended by a plaid shirt, or scarf, etc. In fact, quite the opposite. Just another two cents.


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## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

The concept of school colors is a joke to me. I mean, Yale doesn't own blue and white nor does Harvard own Crimson or Michigan Maize and Blue. The English try to enforce these norms, but the notion of restricitng the color palatte to graduates of a particular instituion is un-American to me.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

DCLawyer68 said:


> . . .The English try to enforce these norms, but the notion of restricitng the color palatte to graduates of a particular instituion is un-American to me.


You have said very succinctly what I was trying to say earlier. Thank you and well put.


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