# Can you really do much better than Brooks Brothers classic cotton OCBD?



## green_isle (Oct 16, 2009)

I would like to purchase 3-6 new OCBDs for casual wear. Can I do any better than the BB classic cotton? 

I can afford Mercer, Black Fleece or even full MTM. I guess the catch is that I have about a 13" drop. On one hand I feel it would be a waste of money to buy anything that isn't a perfect fit given the time I spend working out. On the other, considering these are casual shirts, I feel the money might be be better saved or spent on shoes, outerwear or knitwear.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Well go try one on at the shop and see what you think. I really like the BB OCBD's. The traditional cut is quite full, but I like it that way and do not like wearing the slim or closer cuts. But that's just me. Another option would be the O'Connell's house brand OCBD's...I am sure the fabric on those is more substantial than the BB shirts. I don't own any myself, but I am fully certain they are good shirts.


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## Charles Saturn (May 27, 2010)

For me, its shirts then pants then shoes, knit wear and outerwear depend on how the ponies are running. At $66 or so, BB's OCBD's are a pretty good value. They are well made and will last a long time. And you don't see white and blue dress shirts marked down very often. Tough to spend much money on anything that is a bad fit to begin with though. Of course you could always quit the gym, get all soft in the middle like rest of old farts and enjoy a well fitting shirt.


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## utahbob (Jul 16, 2009)

Check out the Trad:
https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2010/08/off-my-back-oconnells-oxford-shirt.html
https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2010/09/blind-oxford-tasting-no-1.html
https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2010/09/blind-oxford-tasting-no-1.html
https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2010/09/blind-oxford-tasting-no-3.html
https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2010/09/blind-oxford-tasting-no-4.html
https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2010/09/blind-oxford-tasting-no-5.html
A good rating system from somebody who knows what they are talking about, and I will be purchasing some OBDCs soon based on these recommendations.

Cheers!
Bob


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## Wrenkin (May 4, 2008)

Why not try the extra slim? Sounds like they were made for you, what with the drop. They may not have them at every store, but you can always order, try them on, and exchange for the fit you like.

Personally I can wear an extra slim—the washed oxford I have looks great, apart from the overly-long sleeves on the S/M/L casual shirts—but I went with slim in the sized shirts for a more relaxed look. On me, someone in the 140lbs area, it gives the impression that a more full cut shirt would on someone of more average build.

As for comparisons, they're definitely better than Hyde Parks, which is what I had before. Much nicer fabric. Though the Lands' End stuff is nice enough, and so cheap on sale it probably can't be beat for any time things could get messy.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

It's hard to beat the enjoyment-per-dollar of the Brooks must-iron OCBD. I'd welcome a wider variety of stripes and the return of solid marigold. I do like the fabric selection available from Mercer, and the quality plus robustness of the Gitmans, and sometimes I'll actually spend accordingly.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

bd79cc said:


> It's hard to beat the enjoyment-per-dollar of the Brooks must-iron OCBD. I'd welcome a wider variety of stripes and the return of solid marigold. I do like the fabric selection available from Mercer, and the quality plus robustness of the Gitmans, and sometimes I'll actually spend accordingly.


Agreed 100% on the BB must iron OCBD, currently I have one solid white, blue and the blue university stripes. I did come to the sad realization on my last visit, I can't wear BB pink courtesy my Anglo-Scots pinky complexion and strawberry blond hair.

I however considering I live an hour (and across the border from) Buffalo, I should make a day trip down to O'Connell's and have a look at their OCBDs in person.


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## fiddler (Apr 19, 2010)

Danny said:


> Well go try one on at the shop and see what you think. I really like the BB OCBD's. The traditional cut is quite full, but I like it that way and do not like wearing the slim or closer cuts. But that's just me. Another option would be the O'Connell's house brand OCBD's...I am sure the fabric on those is more substantial than the BB shirts. I don't own any myself, but I am fully certain they are good shirts.


From what I can remember from earlier threads. The OCBD's at O'Connell's are Gitman shirts. 
My only Gitman shirt is a pinpoint, so I can't really compare the fabric. But as far as tailoring goes, the BB looks just as nice, if not better.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

OC's OCBD are Fall River I think.

I used to have a few Gitman shirts, which I disliked. 

Way too short for me. A boxy OCBD. 

I think the OCs shirts are on the short side as well.

This matters a lot to me, because full shirts have the tendency to pull up.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

PeterW said:


> OC's OCBD are Fox River I think.
> 
> I used to have a few Gitman shirts, which I disliked.
> 
> ...


I was thinking about the O'Connell OCBD in Blue. What do you mean by short? I am 6'2". I like a fairly long tail. Also I found that the BB shirts in general run short in the arms by about 1/2 inch. I have never worn a BB must iron OCBD. I am two Thom Brown for BB OCBD in tattersall and a navy stripe. The Navy stripe fits better than the tattersall which I will be thrifting after todays wearing. The collar size on the BB must iron BD collars is a bit on the larger side. How full are the O'connell OCBD's I don't like too baggy a shirt. Should I get a Mercer?


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Tonyp said:


> I was thinking about the O'Connell OCBD in Blue. What do you mean by short? I am 6'2". I like a fairly long tail. Also I found that the BB shirts in general run short in the arms by about 1/2 inch. I have never worn a BB must iron OCBD. I am two Thom Brown for BB OCBD in tattersall and a navy stripe. The Navy stripe fits better than the tattersall which I will be thrifting after todays wearing. The collar size on the BB must iron BD collars is a bit on the larger side. How full are the O'connell OCBD's I don't like too baggy a shirt. Should I get a Mercer?


I meant that OCs are shortish in the body. I would not recommend a Mercer if you do not like a generous cut.

If I were you, I'd try a BB slim cut.


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## bluenose (Nov 23, 2009)

Tonyp: Yes, get a Mercer. I'm 6'2" and have many BBs but until I got a few Mercer talls, I didn't realize how much more comfortable the longer shirt was. The tall option and exact sleeve and neck sizes mean that the Mercers are the best fitting shirts I've got.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

I assume you get them cut down, Bluenose? I agree that the tall body is wonderful (and worth the upcharge), but Tonyp said he didn't want a baggy shirt. In a regular Mercer, I have could make another shirt out of all the extra fabric in the back.


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## cglex (Oct 23, 2006)

For the price of Mercer, you can get something that will fit much better from Hemrajani/Mytailor. Do get measured when they are in town and don't guess your measurements and order online.

The downside, is the temptation is to spend more on nicer fabrics.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

cglex said:


> For the price of Mercer, you can get something that will fit much better from Hemrajani/Mytailor. Do get measured when they are in town and don't guess your measurements and order online.
> 
> The downside, is the temptation is to spend more on nicer fabrics.


If you go to MyTailor, and you want an unlined buttondown make sure to make absolutely clear that you want no lining. I ordered some, repeatedly emphasized no lining, but still they came out lined. Real gentlemen, but they really didn't understand why I would want an unlined collar.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Ok, I ordered directly from David Mercer a 4" slim Jim tall OCBD in blue 100% pima cotton oxford. American Placket. This is 4 inches slimmer than the regular shirt they make. Almost like a BB slim fit. We will see how well it fits.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Tonyp said:


> Ok, I ordered directly from David Mercer a 4" slim Jim tall OCBD in blue 100% pima cotton oxford. American Placket. This is 4 inches slimmer than the regular shirt they make. Almost like a BB slim fit. We will see how well it fits.


Great call.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Looking at the blogs, it appears on my screen that the O'Connell's OCBD is a bit lighter shade of blue than the others. Does anyone know how it compares, colorwise to the others? Also, does anyone that has worn both know how the F.A. MacCleur stacks up to the Gitman Bros.? It is made of Cambridge cloth and is about $20 cheaper at Men's Apparel.


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## bluenose (Nov 23, 2009)

PeterW, I take your point. I do like it kinda blousy particularly in a shirt that has a respectable length. However, I see that Tonyp did the right thing and ordered from Mercer and David gave him the slim fit. Tonyp, let us know what you think of the shirt and the fit.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

I will keep you posted. It takes 5-6 weeks for Dave to make up the shirt. Assuming that model is right on, I can order more.


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## archduke (Nov 21, 2003)

i am usually on the non trad part of the AACF but could not help dropping in as I like button down shirts. But I have been very disappointed with BB. Is it customary for these shirts to be made from 80's cotton? I could not believe that J Press made shirts from 40's cotton (or was it 60's?). Wouldn't buffalo hide be more comfortable?

And why do you guys put up with poorly stitched button holes, buttons that easily fall off? The shrinkage after the first wash is surprising. The cloth has no lustre, but is that supposed to be the point?

To me the price charged for the BB shirts seems too high.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

archduke said:


> i am usually on the non trad part of the AACF but could not help dropping in as I like button down shirts. But I have been very disappointed with BB. Is it customary for these shirts to be made from 80's cotton? I could not believe that J Press made shirts from 40's cotton (or was it 60's?). Wouldn't buffalo hide be more comfortable?


The weight of the cloth depends on which version of the Brooks ocbd one purchases and at what point in time. The weight of the cloth is part of the attraction in that it's a bit stiff at first, but then gently softens with age. When that ocbd hits 10 years old and has been regularly worn, it's just about the most comfortable shirt anyone could imagine. FWIW, the Lands End Hyde Park is the thickest ocbd I've come across, which definitely is 40s cotton.

As an aside, I'm wearing buffalo hide slippers and they're very comfortable - don't underestimate the buffalo



> And why do you guys put up with poorly stitched button holes, buttons that easily fall off? The shrinkage after the first wash is surprising. The cloth has no lustre, but is that supposed to be the point?


You shouldn't put up with poorly stitched button holes - presumably you had a chance to look at the button holes when you bought the shirts and could chose one with perfect execution. I have BB ocbds from the 1950s-2000s and haven't seen a single button fall off, but that could just be some strange anomaly (others?) Are you putting your BB ocbd in the dryer? Most around here don't dry their ocbds, but wash them and drip dry. Definitely not supposed to have luster - why would I want my shirt to glow - it's a nice canvas for the color of my tie.



> To me the price charged for the BB shirts seems too high.


What other kinds of shirts are you wearing and how much do they cost? A decent Canali runs about $200? How much are you paying for your BB ocbds? They can be had for $66.00 all the time with the 3 for 199 price.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

The Friends & Family sale starts tomorrow at Brooks Brothers. If one uses the Brooks charge card then they may be acquired for $50. One really can't do much better than this for the quality.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

Worn BB button down for more than 60 years and no one makes a button down better. My other shirts have been made by my SR tailor and even they say you can't beat the BB shirt.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Just lurking, but I must compliment you on your screen name, PL.


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## tampabay1414 (Aug 19, 2009)

No, you really can't do better than the BB OCBD, particularly during the F&F sale.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

archduke said:


> I am usually on the non trad part of the AACF but could not help dropping in as I like button down shirts. But I have been very disappointed with BB. Is it customary for these shirts to be made from 80's cotton? I could not believe that J Press made shirts from 40's cotton (or was it 60's?). Wouldn't buffalo hide be more comfortable?
> 
> And why do you guys put up with poorly stitched button holes, buttons that easily fall off? The shrinkage after the first wash is surprising. The cloth has no lustre, but is that supposed to be the point?
> 
> To me the price charged for the BB shirts seems too high.


I'll second Cardinal's points. The shirts will not shrink if care instructions are followed. I've also never had a button fall off a BB OCBD. I have, however, had several buttons fall off my Borrelli shirts which cost between $375 and $560. That brings us to price and frankly $80 for a shirt that will last between 10-20 years is a pittance. I can't imagine finding a shirt, even on sale, for much less that will give a similar performance.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

It is best to know how you are going to care for shirts:

1) Professional laundry: going to shrink in neck and sleeves over time.
2) Home wash and dry: much quicker shrinking. 
3) Home wash (cold) and hang dry: what I do. Really not shrinking at all. 

Size your shirts accordingly. But don't complain when cotton shrinks slowly in method 1 or quickly in method 2.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Tried all kinds...some may have one advantage or another but with BB, the whole is even better than the some of the parts. No, you really can't beat it. It is the definative OCBD. As much as the word is overused these days it is..._iconic_...for a reason. It is the original and the best. (I just ordered 5 more--one in each solid color) in the F&F sale. $50 each. Don't really need them right now, but always have the paranoid fear they will phase them out none day or only offer them in blue and white in the onslaught of the non-iron revolution.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Saltydog said:


> Tried all kinds...some may have one advantage or another but with BB, the whole is even better than the some of the parts. No, you really can't beat it. It is the definative OCBD. As much as the word is overused these days it is..._iconic_...for a reason. It is the original and the best. (I just ordered 5 more--one in each solid color) in the F&F sale. $50 each. Don't really need them right now, but always have the paranoid fear they will phase them out none day or only offer them in blue and white in the onslaught of the non-iron revolution.


This is an EXCELLENT point! It wouldn't surprise me if made in the USA BB OCBDs are phased out at some point. Then, we are going to wax on about how perfect shirts were way back in 2010. These shirts are certainly great enough and we are lucky in these dreadful times that they are still around.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

PeterW said:


> This is an EXCELLENT point! It wouldn't surprise me if made in the USA BB OCBDs are phased out at some point. Then, we are going to wax on about how perfect shirts were way back in 2010. These shirts are certainly great enough and we are lucky in these dreadful times that they are still around.


Now you're making me nervous...I don't even have 1 in all the colors, much less multiples/backups! Oh no...


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Let the great stockpile of '10 BEGIN!!!


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## Bricktop (Feb 10, 2010)

Trip English said:


> Let the great stockpile of '10 BEGIN!!!


Must. Resist. Panicing!


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## shms59 (Apr 7, 2010)

fiddler said:


> From what I can remember from earlier threads. The OCBD's at O'Connell's are Gitman shirts.
> My only Gitman shirt is a pinpoint, so I can't really compare the fabric. But as far as tailoring goes, the BB looks just as nice, if not better.


"Single needle stitching sewn in America. The RN number reveals the Fall River Shirt factory. Once closed and now reopened in Fall River, Mass. Shirt pockets today can be freakishly small or saddle bag huge. This one is just right. The oxford blue is rich looking unlike a pin point and you can bet the hand will get softer with each washing for many moons to come." - Oconnell's


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

PeterW said:


> This is an EXCELLENT point! It wouldn't surprise me if made in the USA BB OCBDs are phased out at some point. Then, we are going to wax on about how perfect shirts were way back in 2010. These shirts are certainly great enough and we are lucky in these dreadful times that they are still around.


Don't give them ideas!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Exhibit A: Last time I was in the Brooks Brothers New Orleans store they only had Supima OCBD's in white, blue and blue uni-stripe. Asked for pink...told they no longer carry anything except the 3 colors.

Exhibit B: Same at smaller Brooks Bros. store in Florida.

Exhibit C: In a BB Outlet store recently...while not the made in USA standard...only must iron OCBD's carried where white and blue.

Exhibit D: Lands' End announced they were discontinuing the Hyde Park beefy ocbd. After much outcry from customers brought it back in white and blue solids only and 3 stripes in limited sizes (no talls)...all with increased prices. 

Could the beefy OCBD be an endangered species?


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Saltydog said:


> Exhibit A: Last time I was in the Brooks Brothers New Orleans store they only had Supima OCBD's in white, blue and blue uni-stripe. Asked for pink...told they no longer carry anything except the 3 colors.
> 
> Exhibit B: Same at smaller Brooks Bros. store in Florida.
> 
> ...


My Brooks has 1 slim fit must iron OCBD. In trim fit, Lands End has only the 2 solid Hyde Parks. So I say yes, it's likely in danger


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Face it guys...we must be a vocal and buying minority. Menswear is moving rapidly away from the traditional beefy must iron OCBD. When I was at the "Mother Church" store on Madison Ave. in New York in May, I asked a sales person where I could find them. The sales person actually said...after giving me a blank stare, an Ohhhhh, and then somewhat condescendingly.
"You mean _the old fashioned shirts._ I believe we keep them back here." Then pointed me to them in a manner that suggested that I must be a defective in some way to want such a relic.

Look at the pictures in the catalogues from the 80's and all the colors and stripes they were offered in. Just like the 3/2 sack...of which now you can basically only depend on getting the basic Navy blazer...it is a matter of supply and demand. I'm not trying to start a panic...but we all understand what makes the economy work. Everyone is cutting back and offering the most common demonimators. No doubt it is something of an accomodation to a relatively niche market for them to continue to make these "old-fashioned shirts" in the U.S.
Maybe I missed them, but I didn't even see them advertised in the latest catalogue.

During the 70's when clothing styles went crazy...buttondowns basically disappeared in small town America. All you could find was the crazy giant collared crazy patterned jobs. My wife had a job in which she traveled all around the state and I asked her to try to find me an OCBD. She was repeatedly told they were unavailable--even in men's specialty shops. I was unfamilar to ordering from BB at the time. She finally located a couple of Gant poly/cotton blends in the capitol city at the most exclusive men's store there. Finally, "Prep" started making a comeback with Gitman Bros., PRL...and the expansion of BB.

At 61, I think I can stock up on enough to last through my effective working life. My wife thinks I'm sort of a OCBD survivalist who stocks up shirts instead of dried food and ammo (for the next OCBD drought):crazy:. I probably am just OCD...but nonetheless...just reading the signs and saying.....something to think about.


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## philidor (Nov 19, 2009)

Hermes has OCBDs, but for over $300.00; they are Hermes after all. However, after adjusting quality relative to price a person could do no better than Brooks Brothers, especially after factoring in discounts. Brooks Brothers even at full price is inexpensive enough to fall into a Macy's price range, since Macy's carries the more expensive Ralph Lauren and Lacoste (I personally believe that Macy's should discontinue selling these brands, since the people for whom these brands were meant shop at the actual boutiques, Sak's, and other stores).


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

This is why it irks me when those among us rush to LE or equivalent made-in-China knockoffs to save a little $$. 

Support the makers of fine American traditional clothes and shoes! If WE don't, who will? 

And when there is nothing genuine left, the knockoffs with adjust to the next trend or price war and start knocking off something else. 

Really, the price difference (relative to all the other expenses I have) is negligible. So, I buy from Brooks (Supima), Alden, Bills, Mercer, H. Freeman, Southwick and from a few vendors (Press, OConnells, etc.). 

If you are stocking up on LE Chinese Hyde Parks on some low price point, don't grumble when made in NC Supima is gone for good.


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## archduke (Nov 21, 2003)

cardinals5,

I take your poimts on board. I only ever drip dry, never machine dry.

I have some marks and Spencer 'made in USA' shirts from 1989 and they are glorious. Very soft cotton, lovely lustre. Beautiful to wear. They are effectively BB shirts.

No, paying $200 for a shirt is just too much.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

PeterW said:


> This is why it irks me when those among us rush to LE or equivalent made-in-China knockoffs to save a little $$.
> 
> Support the makers of fine American traditional clothes and shoes! If WE don't, who will?
> 
> ...


HERE HERE!!!


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Trip English said:


> HERE HERE!!!


Where? Where?

*Hear! hear! * :icon_study:


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Brio1 said:


> Where? Where?
> 
> *Hear! hear! * :icon_study:


There, there.


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## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

Every time I neglect to wear a BB OCBD for a while, and then pull one out to wear with an odd jacket, I'm quickly reminded how much a really love them ever since a BB opened in Michigan and I bought a few for law school back in the early 1990s. They were $48 then, and about the same price now taking inflation into account. Remember, with an Ask Andy or similar corporate card, you can ALWAYS get them 15% off and frequently for 25% off making them an even better value.

Any when I went over to the downtown BB here in DC, I was able to get a pink, traditionally sized "must iron" no problem. They're readily available there in white, blue, pink, ecru, yellow, blue uni striple and red uni striple.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I think there is no tradlier garment at any price than a blue Brooks supima buttondown.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

The Rambler said:


> I think there is no tradlier garment at any price than a blue Brooks supima buttondown.


Amen and Amen!


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## tsweetland (Oct 2, 2006)

"Can I do any better than the BB classic cotton?"

Answer: No. I think I've tried every one out there, and there is nothing like a BB OCBD, especially after it breaks-in after a number of wearings, washings, and dryings.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

PeterW said:


> There, there.


That's that.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

I like my BB OCBDs so much, I haven't even _looked_ at other options. Just like being married. I'm sure.

What I've learned about them (the shirts) is that, as a tweener in sleeve size, to buy them an inch longer than I used to. Shrinkage isn't an issue so much (they never see a dryer) except with the white ones, which do shrink noticeably over time, just enough to have been an issue when I erred on the short side.

BB OCBDs are the only non-negotiable item in my wardrobe. I remain blazer and chino promiscuous.


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## lsyx (Sep 19, 2010)

It might sound strange but the BB OCBD feels like armor, both in its physical heaviness, and in its indisputable status as the classic American shirt. People could probably criticize other elements of my ensemble, but the Brooks shirt is beyond reproach. As an aside, the extra slim fit is perfect for me—not so big as to be a tent, but full enough to look tradly on my tiny frame.


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## M. Morgan (Dec 19, 2009)

I love mine, although after about five months of (at best) weekly wearings, one of mine has come apart a bit where the cuff and sleeve meet. I do have a habit of grabbing my sleeves when I put on a jacket, and of abusing clothes generally, but it was unfortunate that this happened.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

M. Morgan said:


> I love mine, although after about five months of (at best) weekly wearings, one of mine has come apart a bit where the cuff and sleeve meet. I do have a habit of grabbing my sleeves when I put on a jacket, and of abusing clothes generally, but it was unfortunate that this happened.


I believe Brooks will replace your shirt if you bring it in. I know some people have had issues at their respective stores, but in my experience, their customer service is still phenomenal


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## DocVenture (Sep 30, 2010)

I took advantage of the recent Friends & Family sale to pick up three of the BB extra-slim OCBDs - my first OCBDs. The fabric is substantial but the sleeves seem a little long (at least on first wearing) compared to BB's other shirts in extra slim. Still, to echo what many others have said, for the price the quality of these shirts cannot be beat.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Doc: the sleeves will shorten maybe a half inch after 2 or 3 times in the dryer.


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## DocVenture (Sep 30, 2010)

Good to hear! Even at their current length the sleeves aren't so bad - mostly noticeable when I wear them with a suit or odd jacket. Thanks for the reassurance nonetheless.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

I just posted a diatribe on WAYWT that says, probably more than I should have said on this subject...and maybe more than one would care to read. Would have been more suited for this thread...and I've been skirting around it with several wordy posts here. But if you really are further interested in hearing about this subject--I invite you to take a look there and see if you find any value in my "article of faith".


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

Salty - I just read your post on the WAYWT thread. Well said.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

^^^^
Thank you Cowtown. Much appreciated. I didn't know how it would be received.


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