# Patagonia fleece



## Tuck (May 4, 2006)

This morning as I went out to retrieve the paper it was quite chilly, 51* to be exact and damp as well. I did not linger long in the morning air and headed back in to get dressed for the day. As I finished up and headed to the door I decided it was cool enough for a jacket. I perused the closet and chose a Patagonia Synchilla fleece pullover that I have had for some time. While I was in the car my mind wandered to AAAT and what other trad members would think of the Patagonia? Is Patagonia fleece trad? Would the Lands End Squall have been a better choice to maintain the trad appearance? Just idle wanderings of the morning.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

If a patagonia fleece is not trad, then I'm out. The produce the best made outdoor garments, period, and the trad police would have to pry mine from my cold, dead torso if it is deemed untrad!


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I prefer North Face, but I think Patagonia is more Trad. All the cool kids in the '80s had Patagonia 

Brian


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Patagonia makes nice garments to be sure, but the bulk of it is made in China and sold for obscene markups. For the money, Arc Teryx makes far superior outdoor clothing, the bulk of it made in Canada (that was a little while ago, they may have changed their sourcing policy). In any case, you are correct though, Patagonia makes some very tradly outdoor gear. At those prices, they have certainly earned their nickname - Pata-gucci.


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## Tuck (May 4, 2006)

I am quite fond of mine as well but, at one time Patagonia was strongly associated with the Preppy scene. I know the house is quite divided about Trad and Preppy.


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

I'm kind of torn on this one, but will submit that if one is to consider a Patagonia preppy (I think calling it Trad is stretching it), it has to be this model:



It must be the button version (that, to my knowledge, isn't made anymore) and notice the gaudy contrasting purple color on the inside: classic.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

Trip, that one you picture is indeed a fantastic sweater. I had one of those for years, and was pretty sad when I out grew it. 

On a side note, I just looked at the tag on my patagonia fleece - made in the US.


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

I have a made in the US fleece too from Patagonia. The old ones are, perhaps some of the new ones are. As I had said, the bulk of what they produce is made in China. They work with an innovative US mill to provide the material for the fleece, so for that I applaud them. As for the rest, Id wager 90% of what Patagonia makes is offshored and marked up obscenely. Im not criticizing, just pointing out.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Is it really possible to call something trad if it's made out of a fabric that didn't even exist before WWII? WWI?


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Essentially, fleece is made from recycled soda bottles now. Its very cool stuff. Ive seen it made because my business is recycled packaging for cosmetics and spirits, much of which is recycled PET. 

I dont mean to get on their made in China sourcing, Ive just been on a made in the USA kick. In fact, I made a personal vow to buy made in USA/England/Italy exclusively for the next 6 months to see if I can do it. Im one month into it and you would have no idea how hard its been. EVERYTHING is made in China.


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

Phil said:


> Essentially, fleece is made from recycled soda bottles now. Its very cool stuff. Ive seen it made because my business is recycled packaging for cosmetics and spirits, much of which is recycled PET.
> 
> I dont mean to get on their made in China sourcing, Ive just been on a made in the USA kick. In fact, I made a personal vow to buy made in USA/England/Italy exclusively for the next 6 months to see if I can do it. Im one month into it and you would have no idea how hard its been. EVERYTHING is made in China.


That is very interesting, and I certainly applaud their efforts to be environmentally conscious.

At least some of their things must still be made in the US, because I have the R4 model, from last year, and it is definately made in the US. Perhaps I'll get curious enough to walk down to the Patagonia store to see how much is made in the US v. China...


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

jackmccullough said:


> Is it really possible to call something trad if it's made out of a fabric that didn't even exist before WWII? WWI?


Actually, I think this is very true. I'm not sure in what parallel universe a garment made out of recycled plastic soda bottles can be considered "Trad." They may be functional - but so was Dacron in its day. I don't think a synthetic can be "Trad."


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

Had a similar experience to Tuck this morning. I put on my Patagonia fleece to take the dogs out and just left it on. I went to the closet to pick out a sport coat, but decided that I just didn't want to take the fleece off. I, too, wondered about the tradliness of this jacket but ultimately just didn't care. I love the jacket for its functionality. Mine is also made in the USA. 

I'm constantly amazed at how many of us are mulling over the same ideas at the same time. I'll read a post or a thread about something (like this issue) that I had just thought about or talked about to someone else. 

The force must be strong with us...

TT


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

Let me just point out how great the above Patagonia looks with an OCBD, and even with a tie. I do agree, however, with the assertion of non-natural fibers not being Trad, and therefore I think that the Patagonia can gain no more status than just "preppy" (which, in my opinion, isn't a bad status if we are talking about OPH-preppy and not MTV- or Abercrombie-"preppy").


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## Plainsman (Jun 29, 2006)

tripreed said:


> I'm kind of torn on this one, but will submit that if one is to consider a Patagonia preppy (I think calling it Trad is stretching it), it has to be this model:
> 
> It must be the button version (that, to my knowledge, isn't made anymore) and notice the gaudy contrasting purple color on the inside: classic.


I have the same fleece in gray that I bought in college in 1993. And it looks just as good today. I also have a zip up jacket with a fleece lining that is unbeatable. It may be made in China, but Patagonia stuff just lasts forever.


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## zignatius (Oct 8, 2004)

*pata-gucci?*

Patagonia is one of the most environmentally- and ecologically-forward garment makers in the world and is still a non-public entity ... clear about its core values. I suspect very few of its garments are made in the third-world labor pool -- and there's no comparison with North Face, which is completely cashing in on its brand leverage (read: high markup). Again, you get what you pay for.

Ever since North Face was purchased by VF Corporation (a public entity that's probably the largest clothing mfr in the world), "I've heard" quality and inspired designs have dropped. (VF owns Wrangler jeans, Britannia, Hilfiger, Nautica, NFL Gear, Jansport, Vans, Maiden Form, and on and on.)

Is it trad? If you're into "re-enactment trad," it's not. If you believe in having the highest quality of recreational clothing, I see no reason why Patagonia couldn't be placed on the official trad list. Come on, even Patrick wouldn't put 1950s bindings on his skis ...


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

zignatius said:


> Ever since North Face was purchased by VF Corporation (a public entity that's probably the largest clothing mfr in the world), "I've heard" quality and inspired designs have dropped. (VF owns Wrangler jeans, Britannia, Hilfiger, Nautica, NFL Gear, Jansport, Vans, Maiden Form, and on and on.)


This is very true, thankfully all of my stuff was purchased before they were bought out.

Brian


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## Sweetness (Aug 25, 2005)

I have one of these:









...and I don't care if it's trad or not, but it's unbelievably warm.


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

I agree that Patagonia is way ahead of the curve, environmentally speaking. Patagucci refers to the prices they get for what the product actually is. We pay obscene amounts of money for what is polyester. Not only is it polyester, its recycled soda bottles. As I say, I enjoy Patagonia immensely, but I also see things with open eyes. Many items they sell are made in China, the vast majority. We can all chose to ignore that, or applaud it, or whatever. I was just pointing out the fact of the situation. Before my current profession of environmental packaging manufacturer, I worked as a ski instructor for 3 winters in Jackson Hole. I used to get the "pro" discount, and wore Patagonia almost exclusively. I can also say that just about every item I bought was made in China. It seems as though there are some different observations to that fact here today, and thats fine. I just did a Patagonia inventory, since I am working from home today:

Ski bibs: China
5 pair of capiline underwear: China
Pull over fleece - USA
Ski gloves - China
3 hats - 2 China, 1 USA. 

I just went on their website, and clicked on the first 5 mens items, 4 of which say "imported". And we can all guess what that means. 

Patagonia is a great company no doubt, but there are 2 sides to every coin. I recall 3 or 4 years ago they put out a big press release that they were only going to print 2 catalogs a year to save paper. That idea went out the window quickly though. I feel like I get a new Patagonia catalog every month now.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

At the risk of starting a ****storm, I'd find it hard to posit how any specific fleece garment is more trad than any other, when at root, both originate from recycled plastic bottles. I suppose if we could determine that the original contents were, say, Classic Coke as opposed to Jolt cola, then that fleece might be construed to be more trad. At some point we have to go with our likes/dislikes and let the trad arbiters torment themselves.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Brooksfan said:


> I suppose if we could determine that the original contents were, say, Classic Coke as opposed to Jolt cola, then that fleece might be construed to be more trad.


Excellent.

JB


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

There are way too many northface/patagonia fleeces in my school. tons of people sport it with an ocbd, i wouldn't call it trad, it's definitely preppy, especially the north face ones. North face fleece has become a style icon here.

meanwhile, i still rock my baracuta g-9 daily.


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## Thomas (Jan 30, 2006)

I love fleeces and Patagonia is one of my favorite makers. I wore a Patogonia fleece vest yesterday with a blue OCBD underneath, one of my favorite fall outfits. Arcteryx makes better quality clothing in my opinion, I own two fleeces by them and one winter jacket. The jacket has to be the most waterproof pieces of clothing I have ever seen. GREAT quality.


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## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

I own the pictured pullover since about 1985 or so; bought it for snowshoeing, and outdoor winter work, but I find it indispensible for summer sailing in my northern latitudes. It never gets "put away" at seasonal changes and it's still going strong..no tears, snags, etc. It's faded over the last decade or more of use, but so am I. 

Between my wife and I, we must own about 2 dozen pieces of Patagonia gear, and I've owned Mountain Hardware, Arc Tyrex, etc. as well. I have absolutely no problem paying for high quality outdoor gear, as long as it works; and Patagonia absolutely works. It's my first stop when I need to add fleece, or capilene underwear, etc.

The unconditional guarantee to repair any damage (free) has been used once or twice and I'm quite happy. 

If Trad means high quality and cost-per-wearing in the fractional pennies, Patagonia's in there. 

Re: imported vs domestic. I'm so thoroughly globalized in my spending, consuming, investing and producing practices that I'm not bothered at all.
We all must produce value.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

I am a big fan of Patagonia. I recently returned to their stuff within the last 2 years and ski almost exclusively in their products. I have found Arc'Teryx to be priced higher than Patagonia. I have a couple of their pieces from a few years ago. I think that, with all companies that grow, Arc'Teryx is not the same quality as it was. I have found Patagonia to be very consistent. North Face is just making a resurgence as their product suffered for a number of years secondary to growth and the sale of the company etc... If you want additional outdoor clothing look at GoLite, Moonstone, Cloudveil and 66 degrees North (an Icelandic company). I still come back to Patagonia. I run, ski, hike and play in it.


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## JohnnyDeeper (Jul 22, 2006)

*Crappy clothes good service*

I bought a high-end, windproof fleece jacket from patagonia. It was great. The only problem is that whenever the wind would face me, it would come right through the zipper. 
Most fleece jackets of quality (Arceteryx) have a fleece liner BEHIND the front zipper to avoid this. It was really terrible.

I ended up bringing it back to the store after wearing it for a year. They gave me full credit, without any hassles. To put this in perspective I NEVER return merchandise.

In my opinion, their stuff is WAAAAY overpriced, and not as innovative as other makes.

It's really a scam.


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## zignatius (Oct 8, 2004)

Phil said:


> I just did a Patagonia inventory, since I am working from home today:
> 
> Ski bibs: China
> 5 pair of capiline underwear: China
> ...


Excellent point -- thanks for calling it out. I think it's important to keep every company accountable to its marketing message. Sometimes companies can do such a great job with their positioning, we begin to perpetuate a mythology that's sometimes undeserved.

I have few loyalties. When it comes to outerwear and gear, I'd guess we have equal "products" from REI, Bean, Patagonia, North Face, and Marmot in our home. I'm so stingey, purchases are rare and "it" better be exactly what I'm looking for ... or on sale.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Fleece*

Gentlemen,

Most of the high end fleece will do, make sure it is WindPro or Gore products.
I agree with Phil, am a big fan of Arc Terycyx. I have most of their fleeces, for various things. They are a technical fleece, as their rucks are too.
They are made for serious outdoor people, not for TRAD.
Also, Mountain Hardwear does some great stuff as well, great sleeping bags.
North Face, Patagonia and so on are for college kids who have not climbed anything seriously, or white water raffed any decent waters.
They are great products.
LL Bean, Lands End are not the market you want, if a serious outdoor type.

Nice day gents


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

IMHO Patagonia fleece cannot be considered trad, but if you like them who cares if they are trad or not? I also like Mountain Hardware and North Face fleece. But, what do I know? I also wear Haflinger wool slip-ons on chilly days....most comfortable shoes I own.


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## Larchmont (Jan 2, 2005)

Patagonia for me brings back some great memories. 

"Borrowing" the original fleece lined jacket from a bar during the Head of the Charles. This is the one LL Bean offered before they went to their own make. Almost 20 years old and a little beat but a great jacket.

The original Baggies. Loved them so much that we convinced the Pool Director to choose them as lifeguard uniforms. We had "guard" patches sewn on navy Baggies (Darien Sport Shop if I remember).

A fleece pullover that was true to size and was worn everywhere. My wife now uses it.

I have newer Patagonia stuff (mostly bought on sale - I also do not like their prices) as well as NorthFace and Mountain Hardwear. All not trad but for the most part understated and specific for a certain activity.

The flagship store also underwhelmed me when I was passing through that part of CA last year. But, I am sure Brooks Brother's flagship will also not live up to my memories the next time I am in NYC.


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## lackspolish (Apr 14, 2005)

DukeGrad said:


> North Face, Patagonia and so on are for college kids who have not climbed anything seriously, or white water raffed any decent waters.
> They are great products.
> LL Bean, Lands End are not the market you want, if a serious outdoor type.


Their popularity with the general public notwithstanding, my Patagonia gear has always performed very well in whatever cold weather or high-altitude tasks I've put it to; in fairness, though, your standards of "serious" may be more rigorous than mine.

In addition to performance, the clean style and outstanding product support are the big selling points for me. Nice catalogs too.


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## Tom Bell-Drier (Mar 1, 2006)

if the fact that man made materials is off putting to some trad purists there is an alternative in the form of merino wool from swanndri of new zealand
their ranger shirt or ranger xtreme should fit the bill. www.swanndri.co.nz


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

I used to climb for living, in essence. A perk of that life was the ability to buy all of my clothing/gear on "pro deal." All I ever bought was Patagucci; they make totally bomber clothing. I have NEVER had a problem with anything they have made. It is virtually indestructible. I have some pieces that have seen alpine action in every mountain range in this country, Canada, and Europe. I would not hesitate to take those pieces into the mountains again. Hope this helps.

In my opinion, Patagonia is every bit as good as Arc and superior to Mountain Hardwear. You must remember who started the company.


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## Nordicnomad (Jul 11, 2006)

I find myself leaving my synthetic garments on the shelf more and more and returning to more natural fibers - especially wool.

I have been in meetings at the Brighton ski resort the last couple of days and went for a brisk hike yesterday evening. The weather was cool - about freezing when we started and somewhat colder when we finished an hour after dark. The guy I hiked with was fully decked out in synthetic stuff from patagonia, mt hardware, etc with a fancy backpack/camelback. I threw on a synthetic undershirt, but over it I just wore a corduroy shirt and my Johnson Woolen Mills jac-shirt. Shoved a pair of gloves in my back pocket, a candy bar and some batteries in the breast pockets of the jac-shirt and a headlamp and waterbottles into the handwarmer pockets. No muss, no fuss and I don't think I was any less comfortable than he. The bonus part - no poly pew in my room last night.

This summer while fighting fires I stopped wearing synthetic sock liners and switched to silk instead. They smell better than the polypropolene or coolmax ones (especially on long fires when I sometimes end up wearing them several times before washing) and I don't have to worry about them melting to my feet if I spend too much time standing in the coals. One innovation I will not be giving up on is my smartwool socks. They are made from a blend of merino wool and synthetics and are wonderfully comfortable.


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## LotharoftheHillPeople (Apr 30, 2006)

Nordicnomad said:


> The bonus part - no poly pew in my room last night.


LOL. God, that smell is a beast unto its own, isn't it? It really is beyond description. I love Smartwool too.


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