# Trad Stripes vs. Regimental Stripes



## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

I apologize if this has been hashed out many times before. I checked the archives but didn't find this discussion. I'm sure I missed it.

Here's my understanding: classic trad tie stripes should go from up on the right side to down on the left, like the Talbot, J. Press, and BB ties. I'll call this the Trad Stripe to avoid confusion. 

British regimental ties (ties that mean something) go from the heart, up on the left side down on the right. This I'll call the Regimental Stripe.

I mention this because in another thread a few days ago, I recounted how embarrassed I had been traveling abroad for work with a Ben Silver tie (Regimental Stripe). A British judge sneered at me for wearing a well known military emblem to which I had no entitlement. He was right; my tie broke the rules. I thought of arguing the point (about how I only wore striped ties because I followed the Charleston dress code), but thought better of it. I took my lumps, and threw the tie out that evening in the waste bin of the American Colony Hotel in Jerusalem (I wrongly recalled it as Egypt in the last post. I used to travel a lot). 

A forumite responded: "I would be greatly surprised if Ben Silver made the mistake of selling regimental ties (with the stripes going the "right" way) in the U.S."

Well, they do. BS sells its signature collection with the Trad Stripe, and a Regimental Collection with the Regimental Stripe.

Not to get too picky but the Trad Stripe is trad (classic American style), and the Regimental Stripe is, well, something else. They look similar, but there's a big difference, to me at least.

I assume the history is that the Trad Stripe evolved from the Regimental Stripe, and I also assume that the trad makers were careful to place the stripe the other way. Ben Silver's importing ties from the UK confuses what I assume is the proper distinction.

All that being said, I greatly prefer the Trad Stripe, and I humbly suggest that it is proper stripe for those of us who care about the Trad Tradition. 

I'm sure others know a lot more of this, and I'd love to hear it.

Until then, no pleats, no darts, no forward points, and no regimentals!


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## geojohn (Aug 17, 2005)

PeterW said:


> British regimental ties (ties that mean something) go from the heart, up on the left side down on the right. This I'll call the Regimental Stripe.


FWIW, I don't believe that's universally true, though it is in the majority of cases. I recall browsing a web site that showed hundreds of examples, but I don't recall the URL just now.

I prefer the slanting from upper left to lower right direction, and will probably specify that for my next striped tie from Sam Hober. The other direction has always look slightly wrong to me. I also rarely travel outside of the US, and would make a point of wearing ties that would not be confused for regimentals if I should.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

I have to admit, that I never really paid any attention to the direction of stripes unless I saw the types two ties together- in which case I always thought one (I can't specify which) looked wrong.


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## bjorn240 (Jan 8, 2008)

PeterW said:


> Well, they do. BS sells its signature collection with the Trad Stripe, and a Regimental Collection with the Regimental Stripe.


Assuredly they do. Who buys them is another question. There can't be that many Royal Welsh Fusiliers in the US, can there? (There can't. There's not enough rarebit and male singing groups to support them all.)


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

PeterW said:


> I assume the history is that the Trad Stripe evolved from the Regimental Stripe, and I also assume that the trad makers were careful to place the stripe the other way. Ben Silver's importing ties from the UK confuses what I assume is the proper distinction.


From Brooks Brothers site https://www.brooksbrothers.com/aboutus/heritage2.tem

*1920 - THE REPP TIE*
_One of the trends which was established by Brooks Brothers in the twenties was the diagonal repp tie. Fashioned after British regimental or club ties, we Americanized this soon-to-be classic neckwear by reversing the direction of the stripes. By the fifties, the repp tie became synonymous with Brooks Brothers and the "Ivy League Look"._


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Living overseas, amongst many Brits, I always stripe the American way. But I don't think that you should worry about it in Charleston, not so far as to toss a perfectly good tie, in any case. Look at it this way, if they didn't want us to wear their ties, they shouldn't have punked out at Yorktown. 

That being said, I think there is something a little weird about Ben Silver (and LE for that matter) advertising their ties by regimental name. If it its just a matter of you happening to like the color & pattern of the 4th Royal Hooteneers or whatever, that seems ok. But naming the regiment seems, I don't know...


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

Peter W, your cautionary tale rings true to me. While it is important to always be careful with these things, but also not to take it too seriously. Am I not allowed to wear a UPenn tie (to which I am entitled) just because it looks like a Brigade of Guards tie? Obviously this would be silly. 
Like AldenPyle I've also wondered why Ben Silver sells ties by the regiment name,it really does seem so...


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

AldenPyle said:


> That being said, I think there is something a little weird about Ben Silver (and LE for that matter) advertising their ties by regimental name. If it its just a matter of you happening to like the color & pattern of the 4th Royal Hooteneers or whatever, that seems ok. But naming the regiment seems, I don't know...


AldenPyle, I always enjoy your "What I'm wearing" submissions, and your posts too. You sure got this one right!

When you go to the store, there's just a lot of colorful ties on the tables. That's the way it should be. Without names (unless the names mean something to you).

Obviously, I'm enforcing the rules for fun.

But I too stripe the American way!


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

^ I think Septa's is the correct approach. I have a blue and red striped tie (Guards) that I wouldn't hesitate to wear in the US, but I would definitely leave it at home if visiting London. Ditto my Black Watch regimental when visiting Inverness (I read this week the BW Battalion of the Highland Regiment is now garrisoned at Fort William).

I don't worry about those defunct regimentals like "London Scottish" that BS sells. I think those have built-in plausible deniability, especially if they're simple patterns. I would shy away from the Oxford Colleges and ones like Vietnam Veterans Campaign Medal tie that was discussed here recently.

Scott


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

PeterW said:


> I humbly suggest that it is proper stripe for those of us who care about the Trad Tradition.


I agree completely! I don't wear any college, club, or regimental tie to which I'm not entitled.

Having said that, though, I think that the issue here is one of passing oneself off, or maybe being seen to be passing oneself off, as being something that one isn't, rather than the wearing of a particular design of tie in itself. I don't think that anybody would think twice about wearing a regimental stripe that noone would ever recognise as being club-related as the club was long defunct. By extension, then, I don't think that there's really an issue about someone wearing a club, college, or regimental tie in situations where it wouldn't be recognised as such. So, the wearing of such ties is probably OK in most situations in the US--just not those where people who'll recognise the ties might be present.

Personally, though, I still wouldn't wear them, as it's been ingrained into me that certain ties, regalia, and whatnot had to be earned, and so I just wouldn't feel right wearing them even if there could be no possible chance that I'm send the wrong message by doing so. But, I wouldn't blame others who did wear such items in situations where they wouldn't send misleading signals since I don't think that my understanding of their "earned" nature need be shared by all.


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## gEEk (May 9, 2007)

PeterW said:


> I mention this because in another thread a few days ago, I recounted how embarrassed I had been traveling abroad for work with a Ben Silver tie (Regimental Stripe). A British judge sneered at me for wearing a well known military emblem to which I had no entitlement. He was right; my tie broke the rules. I thought of arguing the point (about how I only wore striped ties because I followed the Charleston dress code), but thought better of it. I took my lumps, and threw the tie out that evening in the waste bin of the American Colony Hotel in Jerusalem (I wrongly recalled it as Egypt in the last post. I used to travel a lot).


This fellow was a judge? Surely someone in the legal profession would prefer to allow the local authorities to handle the matter. Why didn't he have you arrested? After all, there must be a law in Israel prohibiting people from wearing certain colors in striped patterns unless they are members or former members of a British military regiment. :icon_smile_big:

Next time you run across such a worldly chap, you only need to explain that just because some British regiment adopted a _color scheme_ doesn't mean everyone has to allow them exclusive use of it.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Naval Gent said:


> I don't worry about those defunct regimentals like "London Scottish"....


NavalGent: I think that this might be the tie of the far from defunct London Scottish Society! :icon_smile_wink: But I take your point in general, and agree.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Yeah, if I found a tie that stripes the reg way I wouldn't hesitate to buy it, and I spend a considerable amount of time in the UK.

I saw an official Drones Club tie somewhere, and if I ever find the link I'd proudly wear one.

Does the Groucho Club have an official tie?


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I saw an official Drones Club tie somewhere, and if I ever find the link I'd proudly wear one.


Your wish is granted!

https://www.drones.com/drone-tie.html

(Although I believe that they're no longer available, it won't hurt to ask!)

I don't think that the members of the Groucho Club wear ties...


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Brilliant!
I might have to take out a commission!


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

A great quotation:​``We can but wait and see, sir. The tie, if I might suggest it, sir, a shade more tightly knotted. One aims at the perfect butterfly effect. If you will permit me-''​``What do ties matter, Jeeves, at a time like this? Do you realise that Mr Little's domestic happiness is hanging in the scale?''​
``There is no time, sir, at which ties do not matter.''​
_(Jeeves and the Impending Doom)_​:icon_smile:​


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

TweedyDon said:


> NavalGent: I think that this might be the tie of the far from defunct London Scottish Society! :icon_smile_wink: But I take your point in general, and agree.


"London Scottish" was a regiment in WWI. They had something like five battalions then, and survived through WWII and beyond as a Territorial Army unit.

Oops, just did a google search, and they are still around, but only as a single company in a larger TA organization. I guess nothing ever entirely goes away in the British Army. So bad example - mea culpa.

Scott


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

Naval Gent said:


> "Oops, just did a google search, and they are still around


One never knows is right!

But my point is less about offending a Brit (my story about the judge notwithstanding) or about putting on airs. That's all negative.

My point is positive: it is recognizing that the trad tradition has its own stripes, from right to left!

For me, I'm proud to be trad. I'm proud to dress like my dad did in his salad days. I'm proud to uphold the conventions for no good reason other than that!

I prefer trad stripes because they are trad stripes.

Now, I'd proudly wear a Drones or Groucho tie, anytime. My Wodehouse problem (often a daily fix) has been around a long long time. And I spent one wonderful evening in the Groucho Bar that I'll never forget (involving an old girlfriend, many drinks, and a bummed packet of Silk Cuts).


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Naval Gent said:


> "London Scottish" was a regiment in WWI. They had something like five battalions then, and survived through WWII and beyond as a Territorial Army unit.


Ah--thanks for the correction! Mea culpa here, too!


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Does the Groucho Club have an official tie?


No, they don't. (I just asked!)


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

PeterW said:


> One never knows is right!
> 
> My point is positive: it is recognizing that the trad tradition has its own stripes, from right to left!
> 
> For me, I'm proud to be trad. I'm proud to dress like my dad did in his salad days. I'm proud to uphold the conventions for no good reason other than that!


PeterW. Well said. This about hits the nail on the head for me.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Don't forget that Sam Hober offers some nice as well as specific , all designed in cooperation with customers most of whom were forum members.

I'd love a Drones tie.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

*The Delinquent*

Sorry, guys...I *do* enjoy my regimental neckwear collection, and have no intention of giving it up. Having said that, I would not pack *any* of it for a trip to the United Kingdom. 

hbs


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## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

PeterW said:


> I apologize if this has been hashed out many times before. I checked the archives but didn't find this discussion. I'm sure I missed it.


Four pages of drama *here*.

My favorite response...*this one*.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Tucker said:


> Four pages of drama *here*.
> 
> My favorite response...*this one*.


I've always wondered, are the burgers at the Varsity as good as they say?


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

hbs midwest said:


> Sorry, guys...I *do* enjoy my regimental neckwear collection, and have no intention of giving it up. Having said that, I would not pack any of it for a trip to the United Kingdom.
> 
> hbs


It's kind of interesting that the people on this forum who are into the regimental ties are actually the former military officers among us. Not having served myself, I guess I would feel a bit more wrong-footed than Naval Guy or HBS in dabbling in military arcana. They probably feel more confident in sussing out what is appropriate and what is not, which is always the important thing.


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## wnh (Nov 4, 2006)

PeterW said:


> I'm proud to dress like my dad did in his salad days.


Are salads trad, though? _That's_ the pressing issue.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

oh, boy, I can't remmember how many times this discussion has appeared in the past few years.

I am one of those that is strongly opposed to wearing regimental ties, or club ties, for that matter, of anything that you don't belong to. not being a cowboy, I don't wear cowboy boots, not a farmer, I don't wear overalls. and not being a member of the coldstream guards, I don't wear their tie.


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## bjorn240 (Jan 8, 2008)

While I agree with the sentiment, taken to its logical extreme, it seems a bit limiting. "Not fighting in trenches, I don't wear a trenchcoat." "Not panning for gold, I don't wear denim trousers." "Not needing to wipe my mouth, I don't wear a tie."

But it seems a decent maxim, if not a categorical imperative.


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## AdamsSutherland (Jan 22, 2008)

globetrotter said:


> oh, boy, I can't remmember how many times this discussion has appeared in the past few years.
> 
> I am one of those that is strongly opposed to wearing regimental ties, or club ties, for that matter, of anything that you don't belong to. not being a cowboy, I don't wear cowboy boots, not a farmer, I don't wear overalls. and not being a member of the coldstream guards, I don't wear their tie.


I do respect that decision; however, because I haven't sailed since I was younger (nor have I worked the docks), is it inappropriate for me to wear Sperry's?


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## dmac (Jun 30, 2006)

I found when working for a British company that many Brits assumed all striped ties are affiliated with a club, school or regiment, regardless of the direction of the stripe. Of course, those that do must not have spent much time in the States. Most of them, like most Americans, probably never realized the different directions that the stripes slant. I was frequently asked what school my Brooks #3 tie was affiliated with. If my work found me dealing frequently with the English or traveling to the UK, I might dispense with striped ties, at least on occasions where contact with Brits was certain.
On a side note, I've rarely seen a Englishman in a striped tie, especially in a business setting. Do those with experience know if the wearing of a tie with actual affiliations is ever done by the English except on rare occasions? My fraternity has a tie, but I only wear it to reunions.


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## PeterW (May 14, 2004)

dmac said:


> I found when working for a British company that many Brits assumed all striped ties are affiliated with a club, school or regiment, regardless of the direction of the stripe. Of course, those that do must not have spent much time in the States. Most of them, like most Americans, probably never realized the different directions that the stripes slant. I was frequently asked what school my Brooks #3 tie was affiliated with. If my work found me dealing frequently with the English or traveling to the UK, I might dispense with striped ties, at least on occasions where contact with Brits was certain.
> On a side note, I've rarely seen a Englishman in a striped tie, especially in a business setting. Do those with experience know if the wearing of a tie with actual affiliations is ever done by the English except on rare occasions? My fraternity has a tie, but I only wear it to reunions.


In my experience in the international legal world, I have had seen a few wear the ties of their clubs for everyday wear.


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## hbs midwest (Sep 19, 2007)

dmac said:


> I found when working for a British company that many Brits assumed all striped ties are affiliated with a club, school or regiment, regardless of the direction of the stripe. Of course, those that do must not have spent much time in the States. Most of them, like most Americans, probably never realized the different directions that the stripes slant. I was frequently asked what school my Brooks #3 tie was affiliated with. If my work found me dealing frequently with the English or traveling to the UK, I might dispense with striped ties, at least on occasions where contact with Brits was certain.
> On a side note, I've rarely seen a Englishman in a striped tie, especially in a business setting. *Do those with experience know if the wearing of a tie with actual affiliations is ever done by the English except on rare* *occasions?* My fraternity has a tie, but I only wear it to reunions.


mrs hbs's Aunt Malinda was married to a Scot who was Professor of Metallurgics at the Imperial College (London) for over 30 years (he died of cancer last year). Uncle Malcolm said that at least in his circles, the regimental issue was not nearly as touchy as that of wearing an unauthorized school tie. Of course, this was academia...

Fortunately, I do have several "non-affiliated" stripes in the tie drawer, just in case.

hbs


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

dmac said:


> On a side note, I've rarely seen a Englishman in a striped tie, especially in a business setting. Do those with experience know if the wearing of a tie with actual affiliations is ever done by the English except on rare occasions?


Traditionally, it was considered not done to wear a regimental or Old Boys' tie in the city, and so they were de facto rare in business settings. One wore one's associational ties in the country, or at weekends at home in the suburbs, or when visiting grander friends at their country houses. People who observed this rule religiously would change ties on the train, once a suitable distance from London had been reached!

In recognition of the "no striped ties in city settings" rule several clubs and schools produced emblematic "city ties" which were considered acceptable city wear.


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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

Peter, go get that tie and send it to me!!!  I never travel outside US unless it is to a resort and I assuredly am not wearing a tie. I understand that such striping is critiqued in England but nobody I ever run into in Memphis has ever said anything about the striping on ties. We wont even talk entitlement (on a running forum, people debate whether it is wrong to even wear the Tshirt from a race you did not race in - while to me I would not, I dont have time to even think that one through as it matters so little to me).

I wear mostly paisleys, pin dots and the like for the most part.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

AldenPyle said:


> I've always wondered, are the burgers at the Varsity as good as they say?


It's the dogs that pull me off of I-75.

Scott

What'll you have, what'll you have?

https://www.thevarsity.com/


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Ties*

Gentlemen

W have a forum that goes back to the begining of AA. On ties. I voiced my opinion regarding British colors, such as the Argyle Suterland Highlanders, a gorgeous tie. And I wear it.
Did I serve with them, no. It is a handsome tie, and the colors have become very accepting by all.
If you fel you do not want to wera this, then so be it.
It is here, the need to not wear things so beautiful.
The British are very accepting, and actually appreciate our rcognition of their heritage, expecially the military. I am well read about the British military and Navy, but because I want to be. Some soldiers who have served with some outfits, received their colors, from the commands of these units. This is a different situation, and only bestows the pride, in receiving this tie. Such as my self.
I see no problem going to church and wearing the Royal Marines colors, whomever. Especially in the US.
A big deal is made here, in this club, and in these forums. Again, it is very accepted, to wear the british colors.
Schools, Oxxford, Cambridge, maybe a different story.
Know the history of the tie, what it means, know the tie design, why colors are selected and what each part means. 
It is amazing, the lack of knowledge, americans have of the British, especilly after WW2.
Learning the ties, the colors, and what Britain did in the past wars, is aweinspiring! at the least.
Now, enjoy your day, wear your topsider, and enjoy these beautiful ties!!
Ben Silver, will send information for you, as well.
I do not recommend Ben Silver own make, chaarges too much.
Get a Talbot for that matter.
Nice day my friends, going to gym, am gonna wear a Harvard sweatshirt, make an a s s of myself, so someone thinks Harvard types are stupid!!!

Airborne De Oppresso Liber


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## nicksull (Sep 1, 2005)

gEEk said:


> This fellow was a judge? Surely someone in the legal profession would prefer to allow the local authorities to handle the matter. Why didn't he have you arrested? After all, there must be a law in Israel prohibiting people from wearing certain colors in striped patterns unless they are members or former members of a British military regiment. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Next time you run across such a worldly chap, you only need to explain that just because some British regiment adopted a _color scheme_ doesn't mean everyone has to allow them exclusive use of it.


I couldnt disagree more. That 'some British regiment' picked it out is precisely why one should allow its current and old members exclusive use of it. Same deal whatever the country of origin. The reason old buffers still get all huffy about it is because the colors (in the literal AND metaphysical senses when it comes to regiments) are something they are proud of. If they were invented for a particular club, society or regiment the implication (even if you couldn't give two hoots about the organisation) is that you're passing yourself off as something you're not. Thats not your intention of course but ignominy is in the eye of the beholder. 
Would you wear a Medal of Honor you were not entitled to? I doubt it. Cos it insults people who earned theirs. To a far lesser degree regimental ties are similarly proscribed. And it really doesnt matter if you think its ok. Its not up to you. Which is the point. 
Which is why many posters here wouldnt dream of knowingly wearing a pattern likely to get them stopped in the street. 
To do anything else is to care too much about fashion and too little about other people's sensibilites....
Theres a lot of ties out there. Pick something else.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

I only wear my regimental tie although I am entitled to a Brit. one also. There are plenty of other ties to wear. Make sure if you ever go to the Cavalry & Guards Club you wear only what you are entitled you. Food and drinks are great there.


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## Vik (Mar 18, 2005)

interesting thread...although aren't the boundaries a little blurred sometimes? Friend of mine wore a Wharton tie to a meeting in the UK (which he was entitled to) and the chairman of the firm we were visiting thought he had been in the Brigade of Guards...


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I realise this is now an old thread that has been resurrected but I must ask one question: What does "repp" stand for?

And I must point one thing out, the fallacy that all British regimental ties have the stripe going from top left to bottom right, such is not the case,severwal British regiments have the reverse. 

And nearly all regiments have crest ties as well for city use. That said the "no stripes" in the city ruling seems to be well and truly buried nowadays.

The fashion for "non-regimental" stripes has really taken off in the last 3 or 4 years, not just generally but also in the city. 

Here is a link to make my point about stripe direction:


And here is a link to the monstrosity that passes for my old regiment's tie, I don't own one as I know I could never bring myself to wear it. A five consecutive broad stripe is just too much,even for me. 



James de Buitléar


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I saw an official Drones Club tie somewhere, and if I ever find the link I'd proudly wear one.


It's one thing to wear a Drones tie. They're just a bunch of upper-class twits who are so busy throwing butter rolls at each other they would pay no attention to what you were wearing in any event.

But it's another thing entirely to have the effrontery to wear the tie of the Junior Ganymede Club! Now there's a club with rigorous standards which it expects to be maintained.


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

After a number of years of this subject in this excellent company of experts, it seems pretty simple.

1. In the US, wear the stripe that you like, with stripes going in the direction that you like.
Sam Hober will make the stripes go in either direction that you want. I like the Brit stripe, because no one else has one like it, where we live. People know that it is different, but can't quite figure out why.

In the US, the Argyle and Sutherland is the most widely worn stripe. Here, no one knows what it is, and you can never be accused of pretending to have served with that organization.

2. In the UK, don't wear stripes, no matter which direction they run. The chance of looking like a phony are great.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Intrepid said:


> 2. In the UK, don't wear stripes, no matter which direction they run. The chance of looking like a phony are great.


Wiser words were never said! :icon_smile:


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

I think repp refers to the weave of the silk which has rows of tiny diagonal ridges.


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## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> I realise this is now an old thread that has been resurrected but I must ask one question: What does "repp" stand for?


Brooks Brothers defines "repp" as _closely woven ribbed fabric with a transverse cord effect; used for neckwear, accessories, and sportswear_.

Repp refers to the weave of the fabric. Most regimental ties are striped, with a repp weave. Not "rep tie", not "repp tie", but "repp striped tie".

And I agree with Intrepid.


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## tinytim (Jun 13, 2008)

gEEk said:


> Next time you run across such a worldly chap, you only need to explain that just because some British regiment adopted a _color scheme_ doesn't mean everyone has to allow them exclusive use of it.


A better example would be colors instead of stripes. The judge was insulted and had a few nasty words for the would be wearer. Now jump forward to LA or any other big city. Imagine you were wearing the wrong colors instead of stripes. Offending a gang banger or biker instead of a judge could leave you dead instead of with bruised feelings. Anything fraternal like regimental stripes or certain colors or patches are to be earned. Someone who wears them without earning them risks a lot depending on who you piss off.

For many years the wife and I did a lot of riding on my motorcyle. We learned you park your leathers at the door to avoid any problems inside. Usually the results weren't pretty. Fortunatley, wearing the wrong tie doesn't have such extreme results.

Sears is adapting the Big Red 1 as a new line of clothing. It's already invoking a lot bad feelings.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Thank you for the repp explanations chaps.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Intrepid said:


> 2. In the UK, don't wear stripes, no matter which direction they run. The chance of looking like a phony are great.


Unless you're entitled to them! :icon_smile_wink:


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## Leon (Apr 16, 2005)

TweedyDon said:


> Traditionally, it was considered not done to wear a regimental or Old Boys' tie in the city, and so they were de facto rare in business settings. One wore one's associational ties in the country, or at weekends at home in the suburbs, or when visiting grander friends at their country houses. People who observed this rule religiously would change ties on the train, once a suitable distance from London had been reached!
> 
> In recognition of the "no striped ties in city settings" rule several clubs and schools produced emblematic "city ties" which were considered acceptable city wear.


Interestingly from what i have observed on the fora, the emblematic tie in the States is seen as more frivolous, whereas in London, there would be some serious association behind the crest or symbol on the tie. And, yes, stripey ties are country/ sporting.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

AldenPyle said:


> Living overseas, amongst many Brits, I always stripe the American way. But I don't think that you should worry about it in Charleston, not so far as to toss a perfectly good tie, in any case. Look at it this way, if they didn't want us to wear their ties, they shouldn't have punked out at Yorktown.
> 
> That being said, I think there is something a little weird about Ben Silver (and LE for that matter) advertising their ties by regimental name. If it its just a matter of you happening to like the color & pattern of the 4th Royal Hooteneers or whatever, that seems ok. But naming the regiment seems, I don't know...


Well stated. I think the retailers name the regiments because A) the patterns originated with those outfits, and b) they sound so ROMANTIC and ASPIRATIONAL.

I would not wear obvious ones in England (if I ever get the chance to go there).

I'd not wear this one in any event. There is no explanantion a non-member could give for wearing it:


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## suitsyousir (Aug 8, 2008)

Speaking as an "insider" on both sides of the pond, I'm afraid I'm going to come down firmly on the side of "don't wear it unless you earned it".

Upon reading this thread, I put some some thought into the matter and realized I'm entitled to wear something like seven or more different regimental ties. Usually, I'm very laissez-faire when it comes to sartorial details. But this thread has helped me realize that if someone wore something they weren't entitled to, I'd be turned off to the point where I'd, say, not offer them a job.

To me, anyone with a decent education who remains ignorant of the significance of their clothing is probably not the kind of person whom I'd trust with attention to detail. This applies to ties or anything else.

Take this guy:

Obviously, he's never heard of the phrase, "Earned, never given" (at least he removed the EGA - although there's always the buttons).

I'm even going to go as far as bring up the Honourable Artillery Company tie that _paper clip_ referred to and mention that while I spent a short time in the HAC, I transferred out before completing training - hence I don't wear the tie.

That said, if 50 Cent had been at a fancy dress party and he'd gotten all the details right, good on him - that's what fancy dress is about. But outside of fancy dress, who wears a judge's robe or scrubs if they haven't earned the privilege? Ignorant people. Yet somehow it's okay to wear military paraphernalia because civilians think it's "cool".

Obviously, if there's an overlap, e.g. Penn/Guards, that's not your problem - carry on in your own time. If you wear a tie because someone from the organization gave it to you, that's fine as well and counts as "earned". So does a family association - if I were to spot someone wearing one of "mine" and he were to say it's because his granddad earned it, I'd be a real knob to take offense instead of seeing an opportunity for finding something in common.

While I've primarily referenced the military, I feel the same applies to other major organizations. I say 'major' because of the 'quick research rule': if it's obscure enough not to show up on first glance (i.e. University of Scranton's school tie), it's a bye. I include old, amalgamated regiments in this rule.

To a certain extent, I'd give your average joe shmo a bye on this matter, but AAAC members are obviously a different breed and I'd hold them to a much higher standard of education on the matter. To me, willful disregard is much worse than ignorance.

PS: On brief inspection, my Marine Corps tie runs from top left to bottom right. I don't think stripe direction is the main issue.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

suitsyousir said:


> Upon reading this thread, I put some some thought into the matter and realized I'm entitled to wear something like seven or more different regimental ties.


Very interesting and I'd be keen to hear which ones

At last count I was entitled to wear 6 with crests (RAF; RAF Regt; 6 Sqn RAF - Training; 58 Sqn RAF Regt -Training; 15 Field Sqn RAF Regt; 2 Field Sqn Airborne RAF Regt)

And 2 with stripes (RAF; RAF Regt) .

Plus 2 different London Met police ties.

And 4 different Swedish MoD ties (all current: 1, Swedish Rescue Servcies Agency, 2. Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency 3, Swedish Voluntary Radio Organisation (signalists for the TA) 4, Swedish National Home Guard - (TA))

Plus technically I'm also allowed to wear the disbanded RGJ (now part of The Rifles) tie - but never would....I don't consider it earned only having been an RGJ cadet.

Also of course the Middlesex CCC tie, which all friends, fans and members are allowed to wear.

Some of the smaller units I've been attached to in the UK (RAF and police)probably have ties as well, but again I don't think short term attachments count)

James


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## balder (Jan 23, 2008)

geojohn said:


> FWIW, I don't believe that's universally true, though it is in the majority of cases. I recall browsing a web site that showed hundreds of examples, but I don't recall the URL just now.
> 
> I prefer the slanting from upper left to lower right direction, and will probably specify that for my next striped tie from Sam Hober. The other direction has always look slightly wrong to me. I also rarely travel outside of the US, and would make a point of wearing ties that would not be confused for regimentals if I should.


Just looked at my regimental tie(Intelligence Corps)and the stripes go from my upper right to my lower left.I've never thought about it before and could not have said if asked without taking it out of the wardrobe to look!


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## suitsyousir (Aug 8, 2008)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Very interesting and I'd be keen to hear which ones


Not as many as you, obviously!!

Let's see - ULOTC, RMAS, one of the pre-recent-amalgamation Scots regiments, University of London, King's London, my US university and the USMC (I know there are alternate designs, but I'll list each only once). And, of course, ARRSE!

That said, I'm only in my late 20's so I will probably double that tally in my lifetime.

Congrats on the Met. A friend of mine recently made the switch Int Corps to the Met.

PS: RAF...blimey, talk about tie inflation!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

suitsyousir said:


> And, of course, ARRSE!
> 
> Congrats on the Met. A friend of mine recently made the switch Int Corps to the Met.
> 
> PS: RAF...blimey, talk about tie inflation!


I didn't know ARRSE had a tie....I'll have to get one of those.:icon_smile_wink: 
That said I'm registered on and mostly visit this site https://www.militaryforums.co.uk

ARRSE is great for things like slang and mil. history though, I don't visit it
much though.

The Met...I did 13 years 83 to 96, then moved to Sweden.

The RAF...yes most Sqns seemed to have crest ties, stickers, badges,T-shirts, postcards, tea cups, towels etc...ad nauseum.

Then you mentioned school and uni ties, which I'd forgotten about, University of Westminster is the only one I'd bother with, if they've got a tie that is.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

I just had a look on the ARRSE site and I prefer the ARRSE country tie (green base) to the one you've posted on the photo here. And only 18 quid. I think I will get one.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

I didn't know AARSE had a tie--I'm now saving to get the country one! Like Earl of Ormonde I won't wear the regimental tie I'm strictly entitled to for similar reasons (I'd feel like a tit if asked about my service!), but would like to show my past military affiliation somehow, even if obliquely. 

I have several school, college, club, and university ties, too.


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## suitsyousir (Aug 8, 2008)

Minor non-sequitur: While dressed rather tradly in tweed/regimental tie and driving my Volvo station wagon, I found myself blaring Ice Cube's You Can Do it with the window down. I presume this is acceptable for Trad, since rap music is listed on Stuff White People like?


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

Beresford said:


> It's one thing to wear a Drones tie. They're just a bunch of upper-class twits who are so busy throwing butter rolls at each other they would pay no attention to what you were wearing in any event.
> 
> But it's another thing entirely to have the effrontery to wear the tie of the Junior Ganymede Club! Now there's a club with rigorous standards which it expects to be maintained.


Somewhat late in the game but I could not let this sterling observation go unnoticed. You show a fine grip of Wodehouse arcania, sir. "Notice how his head sticks out at the back and his eyes shine with the light of pure intelligence."

TJS


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

I noticed that at some point, Gryffindor House (all of the houses actually) at Hogwarts changed their stripes pattern. Now I must be twice as careful if travelling to the UK.

And, yes, .


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

AlanC said:


> Don't forget that Sam Hober offers some nice as well as specific , all designed in cooperation with customers most of whom were forum members.
> 
> I'd love a Drones tie.


Thanks, Alan! I am new to Sam Hober. It is interesting to note that the pictured ties have stripes that run in both directions, without reference to the above discussion! The nerve! Bill


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