# Does anyone ever wish for a slightly more "upscale" Allen Edmonds?



## Marley (Apr 4, 2008)

First of all, this is certainly not meant to be a complaint thread. I really like AE shoes but (except for a McNeil SC), find myself unwilling to order a pair.

Call it strange, but IMHO, such nice looking and well-made shoes should never be paired with a hunk of rubber for a heel. If I were to note one area where I think that Alden beats AE every time, it's in their heel/sole detail. Even the basic Alden calf models come with a nice Redenbach leather heel.

Now I realize that AE often targets a buyer that might not want to spend $500+ for a pair of shoes, but offering a better heel/sole on their more classic shoes (perhaps 25% of the line?) would be a step in the right direction. In fact, they do offer the Redenbach sole/heel if you custom-order a shoe with a $50 upcharge. By incorporating them into the manufacturing line, that price could probably be reduced.

Anyone else feel this way or am I just an old fuddy-duddy? 

Marley


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## unmodern (Aug 10, 2009)

I have to disagree. That's what Alden is for.

As a broke student I appreciate that one of the two Made in USA shoe companies has chosen to put out an attainable (for me) product.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

When I was working I spent most of the day on my feet. Believe me, rubber heels do wonders for how your legs feel at the end of the day.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Like so? IIRC, most of the 270 degree welt collection has a dovetail heel (Charleston, Westchester, Boston, etc.)


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## Marley (Apr 4, 2008)

Thanks guys,

I guess that I didn't look closely enough at the AE offerings. As Card notes, there are a few that do have the better sole/heel combination.

I can also appreciate a lower price point and a more comfortable heel.

To my eye, it just seems strange that a "flagship" shoe like the Park Avenue would come with such a plain, rubber heel.

As Unmodern notes, that's what Alden is for.

Marley


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I suppose if given the choice, I would choose a dovetail heel over one with a full rubber top lift but I am not really sure of that. The overall shoe design seems to take precedence over the heel top lift design. However, isn't AE incorporating an "upscale" line in with their Fall 2011 footwear offerings?


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

I see these two companies as different animals. AE emphasizes comfort in their shankless construction and a rubber heel complements that mission. They also are more innovative in their designs. Can you imagine Alden coming out with the Strawfut? 

To me, Alden represents conservative style, bulletproof construction, and shell cordovan. I actually like the fact that both companies make high-quality shoes, but take different approaches.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

With respect to the heel part, I happen to own a few older pairs of shoes that feature a full rubber heel (older AE MacNeil, Florsheim LWB in shell and the pair I'm wearing today, Hanlons). I also have a number of AEs in shell cordovan with the dove-tail heel.

The full leather heels are extremely slippery. One needs to be very careful walking on tiles/terrazzo floors. The same can also be said, to a lesser extent, of dove-tail heels.

The full rubber toplift serves, to my mind, a security purpose: these shoes are much less prone to be slippery.


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## jamesensor (Jan 29, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> I see these two companies as different animals. AE emphasizes comfort in their shankless construction and a rubber heel complements that mission. They also are more innovative in their designs. Can you imagine Alden coming out with the Strawfut?
> 
> To me, Alden represents conservative style, bulletproof construction, and shell cordovan. I actually like the fact that both companies make high-quality shoes, but take different approaches.


+1 - well put.


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## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

The full rubber heel does look cheap and ordinary. Though AE is slightly lower than Alden when it comes to pricing, AE is still considered expensive. It is not impossible for AE to have combination heels on ALL their non-shell shoes because they are already doing it for other companies who resells their shoes. Examples of these are LE, JosBAnk, & BB. That too me is a little absurd. Don't they make less money when they have to pass it on to another company, yet give them better than what they usually offer? 

Allen Edmonds!!!!! Can you hear this! What does one need to do to get better heels?! (without paying $50 more, of course)


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## hohne1 (May 12, 2010)

*Wait until Fall 2011*







This is a sample of what they are coming up with - a new higher end line of Allen Edmonds.









Chris


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## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Barrister & Solicitor said:


> With respect to the heel part, I happen to own a few older pairs of shoes that feature a full rubber heel (older AE MacNeil, Florsheim LWB in shell and the pair I'm wearing today, Hanlons). I also have a number of AEs in shell cordovan with the dove-tail heel.
> 
> The full rubber heels are extremely slippery. One needs to be very careful walking on tiles/terrazzo floors. The same can also be said, to a lesser extent, of dove-tail heels.
> 
> The full rubber toplift serves, to my mind, a security purpose: these shoes are much less prone to be slippery.


That is the exact opposite of my experiences. Once the leather part of the heel wears down some and the nails are even with the leather, they are like walking on ice. Every pair of shoes I own with leather heels now gets a piece of Topy over the heel to prevent me from falling on my ass when walking around. To me, if AE shoes came with all-leather heels (or even the dovetail style), I'd have to spend more as soon as I bought them to have a piece of rubber put on the heel.

andy b.


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Andy B., I actually echo your comments, re "walking on ice". I've actually corrected my original post. I meant to type "leather", not "rubber".


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## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

B&S,

There's probably some way I can edit my post to now say I agree with you, but to make it easy I'll just say it here. I now agree with you. 

The first few pairs of shoes I had with leather heels I thought were great because I was "Mr. Fancy". It was no more than a month or two later when I decided I'd rather be "Mr. Rubber Heel" instead of "Mr. Fancy on the floor". I actually asked AE about swapping the heel for rubber on my MacNeils when I ordered them. They were the Cordovan version and the sales lady told me she could do it, but they would be non-returnable because it would be considered a custom shoe. Since I was unsure of the size, I went with the standard dovetail heel. Sure enough, a few weeks later they were wearing Topy.

andy b.


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## 10gallonhat (Dec 13, 2009)

hohne1 said:


> View attachment 2455
> This is a sample of what they are coming up with - a new higher end line of Allen Edmonds.
> 
> View attachment 2454
> ...


That's actually quite nice although I'm not sure about "high end." OP - if you want more "upscale" shoes, why not just buy another brand? Instead of wishing for Timex to start making upscale watches, you might as well just buy a Rolex.


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## Marley (Apr 4, 2008)

In my opinion, AE is making some very strong efforts to compete with the likes of Alden and I believe that they are seeing some real success. AE products are (in my opinion) far from "Timex" quality and they offer some truly excellent shoes (MacNeil and Leeds in SC to name but two).

I also think that their customer service and restoration turn-around times far outpace Alden. I just think that their effort to compete in the high end could be significantly enhanced by some minor improvement to the finer details of their dress shoes.

As it stands today, I do focus on more high-end shoes than AE, although with a bit of effort (and small cost), I think that they could capture even more of the better shoe market.

My original post was simply meant to ask a question about rubber vs leather heels. Thanks to those who provided their opinions on the original question. I now have some new insight into people's preferences.

M


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

this is purely my opinion, but to compare alden and ae, I would say:

Alden lasts are more attractive, and the proportions, when they get them right (which is not always), look better too.

That said, AE shoes are much much more consistent, symmetrical, and so far as I can see, have far fewer flaws than Alden. AE burgundy shell also has a nicer color than Alden's no. 8, imho.

Alden quality control has plummeted since they have increased sales.


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## closerlook (Sep 3, 2008)

hohne1 said:


> View attachment 2455
> This is a sample of what they are coming up with - a new higher end line of Allen Edmonds.
> 
> View attachment 2454
> ...


I'm not really one for a tassel-less loafer of this nature, but that looks like a very nice, well made, and proportionally well conceived shoe.


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## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

The perceived superiority of Alden is due to the promotion of exclusivity, which is persuasive to many American consumers who really don't come in contact with good shoes that often. In England, where there a several comparable makes, one can compare shoes based on materials, wear, last, etc., but with only two choices (as with Coke or Pepsi) one is often weighing factors that have nothing to do with product or even seeing the product itself through the lens of these other factors.

I have one pair of Alden shell cordovan chukka boots, and they are very good, but I don’t see a reason to buy another Alden anything, and I don’t mean that rhetorically. Unless a specific last or style really works for you, there is no reason to pay what Alden asks for what they are offering. The chukkas I bought happened to be in stock in the New York store, but when I inquired about another color I was told I would have to place a deposit and wait for six months. Same story in San Francisco. Puzzling. Why would anyone make a deposit and wait six months for a factory shoe if you could just go to the local riding academy and have them make you a custom pair of cordovan chukkas for about the same price in only four months? Pick your color and your sole. They'll call you when they're done, and they will fit really well. Promise.

As for Alden calfskin, they cost 20% more than everyone else's calfskin shoes except for one manufacturer, and that would be Church's. And I fear they are so overpriced for the same reason: both are trying to capture the consumer who is a step below the bespoke shoe market. Alden's limited production, its promotion of models exclusive to certain haberdashers, its inflated prices on products derived from ordinary fungible commodities like calfskin and horse membrane--all give the target consumer the sense that he is buying something special. And he is. He is buying good factory shoes, but nothing more and nothing less. 

If AE seems a step below Alden it may be because AE niched itself into the markets abandoned by Florsheim and other once-great American shoemakers a generation or two ago—when good shoes were not all that unusual in North America. AE sells good shoes, in shoe stores, for the price that good shoes cost. No more and no less. I suspect our granddads would feel right at home in any AE shop and be rightly impressed with the product. 

I also suspect our granddads would find Alden shops more like some kind of salon if they could find an Alden shop at all, much less one that was open.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Angeland:


A remarkable post, reasoned and written like an essay, and this is your first post. Welcome.


Regards, 

Alan


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## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

^^angeland,
Welcome! With insight like yours, you'll be a valuable contributor to the boards.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Great post Angeland and welcome to the board. I'll quote your succinct and salient point: "*The perceived superiority of Alden is due to the promotion of exclusivity."*

For those posts which have added childish jabs at Allen Edmonds as compared to Alden, they have bought the Alden hype hook, line, and sinker.

It's not that I don't like Alden shoes, in fact I own over twenty pairs. However I also own over forty pair of Allen Edmonds and there is not one objective aspect of either shoe that makes one of better quality than the other, period.

To the original poster Marley, I think you've corrected yourself having been under the impression that Allen Edmonds only offers rubber soled/heeled shoes.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

Marley said:


> Call it strange, but IMHO, such nice looking and well-made shoes should never be paired with a hunk of rubber for a heel. If I were to note one area where I think that Alden beats AE every time, it's in their heel/sole detail.


This is so far removed from my consideration as to whether to buy a pair of AEs - it's off the charts. This is one of the weirder obsessions of some AAAC posters. I tend to wear more Aldens now - mostly because I'm likin' shell cordovan boots, but the heel never enters into it. I'm indifferent to the aesthetics of it, I don't view the combination heel as a sign or quality, and, all in all, I prefer a full rubber heel for traction.

That being said, I do think Alden soles last longer than conventional AE soles.

If the sole/heel issue is that important to you, you should quit complaining, pay the $50 upcharge, and you're still in for less than for a pair of Aldens and will be less likely to have a shoe with QC issues.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Angeland said:


> ...if they could find an Alden shop at all, much less one that was open.


Very well written first post, sir. Your last sentence echos why I own a dozen AEs and zero Aldens. And I live/work in Philadelphia.



127.72 MHz said:


> It's not that I don't like Alden shoes, in fact I own over twenty pairs. However I also own over forty pair of Allen Edmonds and there is not one objective aspect of either shoe that makes one of better quality than the other, period.


Sixty pair between AE and Alden? Pics or it didn't happen 



Epaminondas said:


> That being said, I do think Alden soles last longer than conventional AE soles.


Not that I can offer a comparison to Alden, but I find that AE's soles found on their shell offerings wear like iron. I wear my shell stands at least once a week, if not twice, and in 6 months cannot see any noticeable wear.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

AE and Alden both use JR soles and heels on their shells.

Good points Angeland


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> Very well written first post, sir. Your last sentence echos why I own a dozen AEs and zero Aldens. And I live/work in Philadelphia.


You have one of the more popular Alden retailers in your backyard - always excellent service and more than enough models to try out. https://www.shermanbrothers.com/


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

The Aldens with a 6 month wait are usually unmarked shell that is used for the lighter colors. These are generally not available from AE, wait or not.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Cardinals5 said:


> You have one of the more popular Alden retailers in your backyard - always excellent service and more than enough models to try out. https://www.shermanbrothers.com/


Yes, in fact, Mr. Graangard suggested I see them as they reportedly maintain a good AE stock, however their hours are prohibitive to my schedule. They close by 7 during the week, and early on the weekends; for these same reasons I don't frequent Boyd's either. If they maintained regular retail hours, I'd have a new place to dispose of paychecks.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> Yes, in fact, Mr. Graangard suggested I see them as they reportedly maintain a good AE stock, however their hours are prohibitive to my schedule. They close by 7 during the week, and early on the weekends; for these same reasons I don't frequent Boyd's either. If they maintained regular retail hours, I'd have a new place to dispose of paychecks.


My experience with Sherman Brothers was not good when I attempted to purchase my first pair of Allen Edmonds there about 8 or 9 years ago and I haven't been back since. I'm surprised Mr. Graangard recommended it because they carry very little in stock and will only order what they feel will sell, not what you want.

I did buy several pairs of Allen Edmonds at Joseph's Shoes, on 18th Street, just south of Market Street. their service is great, but unfortunately they have since stopped carrying Allen Edmonds, but they do carry Cheaney shoes now.

If you are in Philly and want the best selection of AE shoes, take the Amtrak to NY where their company owned stores in Manhattan are well stocked.


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## mrp (Mar 1, 2011)

Angeland said:


> The chukkas I bought happened to be in stock in the New York store, but when I inquired about another color I was told I would have to place a deposit and wait for six months. Same story in San Francisco. Puzzling.


I've never dealt with those stores, I deal with an online Alden retailer, even though my size is not stocked I've only had to provide a method of payment for when the shoe is ready, even with a special color option (it may take 10 months).

With AE if I ask for a special order you pay the $50 fee and the price of the shoe upfront, their turn around time is much faster.

As to the whole heel question, how is it that heels are being fully exposed to public view. My guess it is the habit of putting your foot up on your knee, versus crossing your legs and keeping the foot low. It was once the custom not to show the sole of your soles to folks in public, actually it was considered disrespectful to be doing so, times have seemingly changed.


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## indigo73 (Apr 19, 2008)

I first began to wear Allen Edmonds shoes while I was in law school in the mid-seventies. Before that time, I never had more than 1 pair of dress shoes at a time. I had worn my share of Florsheim and Foot Joy. I sometimes went with some fancy Italian number. When I had to wear a suit every day, I preferred the AE product. I moved to Washington, where I did encounter Alden, but I was happy with AE. At the time, my favorite dress shoe was the AE Strand. A few years ago I needed a new pair, when I found that AE no longer offered the Strand. I bought a pair of Alden perforated captoe shoes, very similar to the AE Strand. They are nice shoes, but they don't support my flat feet as well as the AE's. I later anted a pair of black shell captoes, so I ordered a pair of Alden's. Like the others, these do not support my feet as well. I wish I had paid the surcharge and had AE make me a pair of Park Avenues in black shell. As it is, I now own 2 pair of Alden's and 7 pairs of AE. The heels of the AE are a mix of black rubber and leather with a rubber dovetail. They all look the same when I am wearing them. I don't think the heel style is much of an issue. I also do not notice a difference in the quality. The one feature that bothers me on the Alden's is the toe which seems to have a higher profile than the AE product. I prefer the less bulbous silhouette of the AE.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

closerlook said:


> I'm not really one for a tassel-less loafer of this nature, but that looks like a very nice, well made, and proportionally well conceived shoe.


Alas, IMHO the Venetian loafer design is sadly, the most under-appreciated and under-utilized men's shoe design. The characteristically clean and simple lines of such designs are exactly what it is all about...sometimes! 



indigo73 said:


> .....
> .....
> The one feature that bothers me on the Alden's is the toe which seems to have a higher profile than the AE product. I prefer the less bulbous silhouette of the AE.


The more generous volumn of the toe box is exactly the feature that convinced me to give up my AE MacNeils and PTB designs in favor of comparable Alden offerings, after AE streamlined the design of the respective toe boxes for those models. While I continue to buy more pairs of AE's than I need, I will alway defer to Alden when comfort on the foot becomes an issue!


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Me too, Eagle: I'm all about fit when it comes to shoes, and the Alden toebox leaves more room for my mild hammertoes to wiggle.


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## geologic (Oct 6, 2010)

blue suede shoes said:


> My experience with Sherman Brothers was not good when I attempted to purchase my first pair of Allen Edmonds there about 8 or 9 years ago and I haven't been back since. I'm surprised Mr. Graangard recommended it because they carry very little in stock and will only order what they feel will sell, not what you want.
> 
> I did buy several pairs of Allen Edmonds at Joseph's Shoes, on 18th Street, just south of Market Street. their service is great, but unfortunately they have since stopped carrying Allen Edmonds, but they do carry Cheaney shoes now.


Joseph's Shoes had great service (although usually with a bit of upselling mixed in). It's been closed for about two years.

My experience with Sherman Brothers has been mixed. I agree that their stock is pretty limited, but they happily ordered the shoe I wanted and gave it to me for the (somewhat lower than MSRP) Sherman Brothers price. The salesmen seem pretty knowledgeable about shoes and feet (although not so much the AE product line), but my impression is that they look askance at potential customers who don't look like they definitely want to walk out with a $300+ shoe today and another in a month or two. Also, when my shoes arrived, they quickly stuck a tongue pad in to help with fit -- but I felt like part of why they were so quick to do it was so it'd be hard for me to return the shoes if I decided the fit wasn't right after walking around on carpet at home for a while. I'd shop at Sherman Brothers again, but my endorsement is definitely qualified.

Without leaving Philly, I think Sherman Brothers is the place to go to buy conservative men's shoes (I haven't tried Boyd's).


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

blue suede shoes said:


> If you are in Philly and want the best selection of AE shoes, take the Amtrak to NY where their company owned stores in Manhattan are well stocked.


Luckily, I've developed enough of a relationship with Shoebank that orders are just an email away (have done some belts too, including a custom make up), so no need to trek to Manhattan. Really, I'm looking for a well stocked Alden retailer in the area, but, as stated, Sherman's hours leave me in the dark.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I'm a little surprised that Angeland's post has passed unchallenged, considering that it pretty much says that anyone who buys Alden shoes instead of Allen Edmonds is a sucker, an ignorant American with little knowledge of what a good shoe is, who tries to hide his lack of understanding under heaps of money. That all of this, presented as an assertion, without a shred of supporting evidence, is praised as good writing, is also surprising.

AE makes very good shoes for a very good price. I prefer the fit and finish of Aldens, and have a number of 20+ year old Aldens that are still in regular use. To me, that's worth a few extra bucks, but I feel no need to denigrate those who are happy with their AEs.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

The Rambler said:


> I'm a little surprised that Angeland's post has passed unchallenged, considering that it pretty much says that anyone who buys Alden shoes instead of Allen Edmonds is a sucker, an ignorant American with little knowledge of what a good shoe is, who tries to hide his lack of understanding under heaps of money. That all of this, presented as an assertion, without a shred of supporting evidence, is praised as good writing, is also surprising.
> 
> AE makes very good shoes for a very good price. I prefer the fit and finish of Aldens, and have a number of 20+ year old Aldens that are still in regular use. To me, that's worth a few extra bucks, but I feel no need to denigrate those who are happy with their AEs.


Actually I believe you are both right and your posts can be reconciled. I understood Angeland's thesis to be that as a shoe, but not considering style, or fit, Alden's are not better than AE. You are quite clear that you prefer the fit and finish of Alden. I see no inconsistency here.
A man, such as yourself, is not a sucker or ignorant to buy any maker's shoe when he likes the fit and finish. On the other hand ,if a shoe with the same fit and finish, in a style you wanted, was offered for less money by AE, I am sure you would buy it.

I praised Angleland's post as I take it to refer only to someone who has no preference for either the fit or finish of an Alden of a certain style, when he compares it to the fit and finish of the same style in an AE, but gets the Alden simply because of reputation. You, and everyone else who prefers an Alden fit, certainly are not in this category.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Put that way, I certainly agree.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Never seen anyone who actually _wanted_ suicide heels before!


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> I prefer the fit and finish of Aldens, and have a number of 20+ year old Aldens that are still in regular use. To me, that's worth a few extra bucks, but I feel no need to denigrate those who are happy with their AEs.


Alden's fit and finish sucks, frankly (at least lately). I've had to send back a number of shoes in exchange because of glitches. I suggest you peruse the Leather Soul sponsored thread over at the other forum and see what kinds of fit anf finish Alden is churning out. For the prices Alden charges, their quality control should be MUCH better. I've never had a problem with first quality AE's and I'd have a LOT more confidence in AE to do the right thing than Alden. AE tends to provide a new pair of shoes when quality defects appear - Alden's solution is to perform a questionable repair. As a minor gripe, one would think Alden could develop a metal eyelet that didn't chip paint so readily - I have anumber of shell boots with chipped eyelets that have not been worn abusively - again, for the money........


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> Not that I can offer a comparison to Alden, but I find that AE's soles found on their shell offerings wear like iron. I wear my shell stands at least once a week, if not twice, and in 6 months cannot see any noticeable wear.


Yes, I agree, but I think Alden uses the same soles on all their shoes regardless of whether calf or shell. AE uses a different sole on calf shoes, and I think they wear faster than Alden.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Maybe the price difference is because they use hard wearing soles on their calf shoes as well as the shell? I notice the shells are closer in price to AE.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Epaminondas said:


> Alden's fit and finish sucks, frankly (at least lately). I've had to send back a number of shoes in exchange because of glitches. I suggest you peruse the Leather Soul sponsored thread over at the other forum and see what kinds of fit anf finish Alden is churning out. For the prices Alden charges, their quality control should be MUCH better. I've never had a problem with first quality AE's and I'd have a LOT more confidence in AE to do the right thing than Alden. AE tends to provide a new pair of shoes when quality defects appear - Alden's solution is to perform a questionable repair. As a minor gripe, one would think Alden could develop a metal eyelet that didn't chip paint so readily - I have anumber of shell boots with chipped eyelets that have not been worn abusively - again, for the money........


LOL. While I cannot claim the degree of expertise of Uncle Mac in this regard, I have purchased five pair of AE's shell cordovan make-ups and (at present) nine pair of Alden's offerings of such. I have been happy with both, but, as indicated by Rambler, have found the finish on Alden's shell cordovan offerings to be clearly superior to the finish on my AE shell purchases. The finish on the calf hide offerings of the two manufacturers seems comparable to me.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

^ "finish" in the sense of defects that escape quality control has never been a problem for me, but I've read enough internet complaints about both shoes qc to hold me for years, and think I might skip the one at leather soul. In terms of superficial looks, I prefer Alden final dye jobs, usually: I just like the colors more, purely subjective, that. Fit, in terms of how the parts fit together, I'd call a tie, though there is something incredibly crisp about the Alden brogue. In terms of how a given shoe fits my foot, the most important category for me, it's Alden hands down, in several lasts. Purely personal that, I'm sure AEs fit some others better.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> Does anyone ever wish for a slightly more "upscale" Allen Edmonds?


Slightly more upscale Allen Edmonds are called Alden and Crockett & Jones!


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

lol, dd!


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## dmac (Jun 30, 2006)

Great Twizz, have you tried the Sherman Brothers branch in Villanova? They keep longer opening hours than the Center City location. I have always had a positive experience with Sherman Brothers.

As another matter, is anyone else concerned with the fact that AE advertises heavily in national newspapers and magazines? I would be worried that most of the cost of the shoe is going to underwrite the WSJ or the NYTimes. As a general matter, I've found that anything advertised in color is usually not very good, and when a brand goes that route (Brooks Brothers, LLBean, Hickey Freeman) it's usually a sign that the end is nigh. Could AE (along with Sam Adams beer) be a happy exception?


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Doctor Damage said:


> Slightly more upscale Allen Edmonds are called Alden and Crockett & Jones!


I too am laughing out loud Dr. Damage. (as in laughing *at* your comment because it truly is funny) I won't comment on Crockett & Jones, but there is not one objective aspect of Alden shoes that make them superior in any way to Allen Edmonds.

I like them both but if I had to say I've had more issues, small quality control issues, with my Alden shoes than I have had with Allen Edmonds.


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## Angeland (Aug 24, 2011)

Thanks, arkirshner, for reconciling my post with Rambler's. He and I, no doubt, share 99% of our opinions on what makes a "good shoe" a good shoe. I do find that Alden's quality/cost/availability ratios do not compare favorably to AE's but only in the respect do they compare unfavorably. Any comparison of the two makes should (1) give greater weight to fit and style, since either shoe is expensive and (2) include other makes now reasonably available through internet shopping. I am pleased to see that many subsequent posts discuss the styling differences rather than quality and recognize that Alden and AE are competing not just with each other but with a world of shoes.

In that spirit I would like to recommend the Grenson Stanley, especially to that shoe buyer who is on a bit of tighter budget. My impression is that they are not as good as Alden or AE, but they are good, and they also offer a jazzy continental style AE and Alden do not. For those who are drawn to this style but who aren't planning a trip to Marienplatz to drop a thousand dollars on a pair of Dinkelacker brogues any time soon, I recommend this make and model as an interesting alternative. I bought mine in England for less than AE or Alden shoes, but I notice that there is at least one American online retailer who has a wide selection for about the same price as an AE calfskin.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

127.72 MHz said:


> Doctor Damage said:
> 
> 
> > Slightly more upscale Allen Edmonds are called Alden and Crockett & Jones!
> ...


I know what you mean by AE versus Alden. The supposed quality difference which has been pounded into my head since 2004 (when I joined AAAC) isn't quite so obvious when it comes to actual examples. I think the problem is that Alden is getting a bit sloppier, while AE is getting sharper; in other words, the gap between the two is narrowing (if it hasn't closed completely already). Going further, I would place C&J (or Peal, if you shop at BB) slightly ahead of Alden, but they also used lighter, thinner materials and they have their own quirks. For myself, I find most UK lasts fit me better than most US lasts, and that decides it for me.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

Doctor Damage said:


> I know what you mean by AE versus Alden. The supposed quality difference which has been pounded into my head since 2004 (when I joined AAAC) isn't quite so obvious when it comes to actual examples. I think the problem is that Alden is getting a bit sloppier, while AE is getting sharper; in other words, the gap between the two is narrowing (if it hasn't closed completely already).
> 
> Spot on.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Conceding the wisdom of Nick V's confirmation of Doctor D's original conclusion, "the problem is that Alden is getting a bit sloppier, while AE is getting sharper; in other words, the gap between the two is narrowing," and hoping what follows is viewed as a practical consideration and not as just being too politically incorrect:

Could it be that the increased frequency of quality control issues is somewhat a function of the 'oft reported' aging out of the Alden work force vs the comparatively young age of AE's work force? I ask this because I am one who has aged beyond what most would consider as middle age and looking back, prior to my retirement, I performed a number of physical functions in the early and mid points of my career(s) at a much higher level of precision, than I was able to perform those same functions at the end of my career. As we age, certain physical actions will deteriorate to some degree, as the years pass. Is it possible that we are we watching this happen with our beloved Alden's(!)? :icon_scratch:


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Haven't personally experienced these problems with Alden, though others apparently have. If we agree that the main difference between Alden and AE is that Alden offers more shell, especially in the "rare" colors, a comment by Ken Sherman to me a few months back is somewhat relevant to Eagle's observation: that Alden has two elderly guys that know how to properly finish shell in the lighter colors, and that when they're retired, Alden may lose this advantage.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Nick V said:


> AE and Alden both use JR soles and heels on their shells.
> 
> Good points Angeland


Are you sure that's true for Alden? I haven't noticed any difference in sole wear between my Shell and Calf Aldens. I've also heard that JR won't sell soles without their logo - which I've never noticed on a pair of Aldens.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> I'm a little surprised that Angeland's post has passed unchallenged, considering that it pretty much says that anyone who buys Alden shoes instead of Allen Edmonds is a sucker, an ignorant American with little knowledge of what a good shoe is, who tries to hide his lack of understanding under heaps of money. That all of this, presented as an assertion, without a shred of supporting evidence, is praised as good writing, is also surprising.
> 
> AE makes very good shoes for a very good price. I prefer the fit and finish of Aldens, and have a number of 20+ year old Aldens that are still in regular use. To me, that's worth a few extra bucks, but I feel no need to denigrate those who are happy with their AEs.


Aldens have the steal shank and AE doesn't. No AE last fits me as well as the Hampton. Fit first, everything else second.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The Rambler said:


> Haven't personally experienced these problems with Alden, though others apparently have. If we agree that the main difference between Alden and AE is that Alden offers more shell, especially in the "rare" colors, a comment by Ken Sherman to me a few months back is somewhat relevant to Eagle's observation: that Alden has two elderly guys that know how to properly finish shell in the lighter colors, and that when they're retired, Alden may lose this advantage.


In the interest of full disclosure, nor have I experienced any problems with any of the Aldens I have purchased. Indeed, on the two occassions that I (with intent) purchased Alden seconds, I could not, with any degree of certainty, find the flaws which resulted in those pairs being sold as seconds by Alden. There are times methinks, when we become so picky that it works to our detriment, leading some to conclude that imagined production offenses/flaws are substantially more than they in fact are! :icon_scratch:


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

joenobody0 said:


> Are you sure that's true for Alden? I haven't noticed any difference in sole wear between my Shell and Calf Aldens. I've also heard that JR won't sell soles without their logo - which I've never noticed on a pair of Aldens.


Last I heard it was. A couple of points though...

I don't know if JR's policies differ with makers and the repair industry.
I have a choice of buying stamped or no stamped Jr's. As a policy I always purchase the stamped ones. I do this because if I I'm charging more for the JR leather I want the customer to see that they are getting what they are paying for.
Also, because of the tanning process and the length of it, JR leather has a deeper more oak color. That in itself distinguishes it from other soling leather.
You can test for yourself. The next time you are looking at Alden offerings, compare the color of the soles on their shells with that of their calf models.
If you see a significant difference, (meaning the shells have a darker sole) chances are the shells have JR soles.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

Nick V said:


> You can test for yourself. The next time you are looking at Alden offerings, compare the color of the soles on their shells with that of their calf models.
> If you see a significant difference, (meaning the shells have a darker sole) chances are the shells have JR soles.


Thanks for the response. I have a few pair of each in front of me. Should I compare the color after each sole gets some wear, or when they're both fresh? Alden applies some sort of stain on the soles of their shoes so any comparison would need to be after some wear.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

joenobody0 said:


> Thanks for the response. I have a few pair of each in front of me. Should I compare the color after each sole gets some wear, or when they're both fresh? Alden applies some sort of stain on the soles of their shoes so any comparison would need to be after some wear.


Compare out of the box. Do you see a color difference from the soles on the shell vs calf models?


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Conceding the wisdom of Nick V's confirmation of Doctor D's original conclusion, "the problem is that Alden is getting a bit sloppier, while AE is getting sharper; in other words, the gap between the two is narrowing," and hoping what follows is viewed as a practical consideration and not as just being too politically incorrect:


With due respect to those who have posted their subjective opinions I don't believe there was any "wisdom" to Nick V's confirmation just as I believe Doctor D's original conclusion cannot be confirmed with any objective fact. And, obviously, I believe you began with an incorrect premise and thus have reached a flawed conclusion.

It's my belief that there *never was *any objective difference between the two manufactures in quality of materials or the manufacturing process.

Given the number of both Alden and Allen Edmonds that I began owning twenty years ago I believe my opinion is as valid as any.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL. While I've purchased enough pairs of AE's to receive three free pairs through their Cobbler's Club program and with 15 pairs of Alden's on my shoe racks, I earlier assumed and continue to believe that Nick V., in his profession, has seen and handled considerably more pairs of each brand, than have I! He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration.


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## anselmw (Jul 5, 2005)

Has anyone else noticed that Alden is selling their shoes through J Crew? I noticed this the past couple of years and would assume the volume must be fairly high if they are still in the catalog. This would definitely impact quality if they were not prepared for the volume increase.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> LOL. While I've purchased enough pairs of AE's to receive three free pairs through their Cobbler's Club program and with 15 pairs of Alden's on my shoe racks, I earlier assumed and continue to believe that Nick V., in his profession, has seen and handled considerably more pairs of each brand, than have I! He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration.


I too am laughing out loud Eagle2250. I have read what Nick has had to say and I have not come upon one objective, mind you I said objective, difference that indicates Alden shoes are of any higher quality than Allen Edmonds.

I must point out one again that I enjoy all of my Alden shoes and and there are several styles that Allen Edmonds cannot match in my opinion.

Besides having several pairs of both Allen Edmonds and Aldens re-crafted by the manufactures I have had several more pairs done by my cobbler. Although Nick V is undoubtedly a professional his feelings are but one example of a professional in his field.

I value critical thought Eagle.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

127.72 MHz said:


> With due respect to those who have posted their subjective opinions I don't believe there was any "wisdom" to Nick V's confirmation just as I believe Doctor D's original conclusion cannot be confirmed with any objective fact. And, obviously, I believe you began with an incorrect premise and thus have reached a flawed conclusion.
> 
> It's my belief that there *never was *any objective difference between the two manufactures in quality of materials or the manufacturing process.
> 
> Given the number of both Alden and Allen Edmonds that I began owning twenty years ago I believe my opinion is as valid as any.


You can classify it any way you'd like.
I simply shared my experiences based on facts.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Your opinion is respected Nick and I'm not a Cobbler. But perhaps you would be willing to admit, that somewhere, perhaps one in a million cobblers worldwide, that another in your profession might disagree with your assertion that Alden shoes are superior to Allen Edmonds shoes?

Perhaps not. You're *the *world wide authority,....


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

127.72 MHz said:


> Your opinion is respected Nick and I'm not a Cobbler. But perhaps you would be willing to admit, that somewhere, perhaps one in a million cobblers worldwide, that another in your profession might disagree with your assertion that Alden shoes are superior to Allen Edmonds shoes?
> 
> Perhaps not. You're *the *world wide authority,....


(?) You may want to re-read my comments.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ I recall a thread where you reviewed, in great detail, the two maker's shoes. Honestly Nick I respect your opinion and I admit that I may not have read additional comments you may have made.

To be right honest, given Eagle2250's comments: *"He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration"* I did make an assumption that you may have said, or made the inference, that Alden shoes are superior in some way to Allen Edmonds.

If that is not the case then I made an incorrect assumption. But given Eagle2250's comment I think one can see why I made that assumption.

Although it's not as bad as it was about the time I began at AAAC there is still a fair amount of Alden snobbery that goes on here. It wrong, and more importantly, it's incorrect. Overall I'd call it snobbery masquerading as objective fact.

One might never know that I love Alden shoes perhaps as much as I love my Allen Edmonds.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> LOL. While I've purchased enough pairs of AE's to receive three free pairs through their Cobbler's Club program and with 15 pairs of Alden's on my shoe racks, I earlier assumed and continue to believe that Nick V., in his profession, has seen and handled considerably more pairs of each brand, than have I! He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration.


Next time you get three free pairs, you may consider donating them. To the Official Jovan Shoe Fund. In size 11D. Tell them your feet just happened to swell to that enormous size since you last patronised them. I swear I'll give them to a very deserving recipient. :icon_study:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Jovan: Under the Cobblers Club, AE allows one free pair for each twelve pairs of shoes purchased. LOL. Starting all over, at this point, I will make my fourth selection of a complimentary pair with the intent of forwarding them to you! 



127.72 MHz said:


> Your opinion is respected Nick and I'm not a Cobbler. But perhaps you would be willing to admit, that somewhere, perhaps one in a million cobblers worldwide, that another in your profession might disagree with your assertion that Alden shoes are superior to Allen Edmonds shoes?
> 
> Perhaps not. You're *the *world wide authority,....





Nick V said:


> (?) You may want to re-read my comments.





127.72 MHz said:


> ^^ I recall a thread where you reviewed, in great detail, the two maker's shoes. Honestly Nick I respect your opinion and I admit that I may not have read additional comments you may have made.
> 
> To be right honest, given Eagle2250's comments: *"He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration"* I did make an assumption that you may have said, or made the inference, that Alden shoes are superior in some way to Allen Edmonds.
> 
> ...


In addition to going back and rereading Nick V's post(s), you might also go back and re read(?) my postings to this thread. In summary I commented that personally, I could not see any quality differences in AE's and Alden's, except perhaps in the quality of finish on their respective shell cordovan offerings. In which case, based on my purchases, I felt the Alden shell cord finishes were preferable. I also said that as AE streamlined several of their shoe designs, I found that Alden's comparable designs offered more roomy toe boxes, providing a more comfortable fit for my feet. When Nick V. quoted a conclusion, reflected in one of DocD's postings, regarding a perception of difference in quality of the two brands being narrowed as AE's QC improved and Alden's deteriorated somewhat, I bowed to his obviously greater experience with the designs offered by both AE and Alden. Please, re read the posts referred to in this summary to avoid a future claim by you that I have intentionally left out some salient details of my comments.

How you find anything in these comments with which to take such extreme offense, befuddles me. To be blunt, what the hell is your problem? I am as much of a fan of AE's and Alden's as you seem to be. Perhaps we are simply getting a glimpse into the fevered mind of a foot gear fetishist() or perhaps you are simply wearing your opinions regarding the points under discussion just a bit to close to the skin. Take the time to (be objective and at least ) read the post, to which you seem to seem to be claiming offense! Thanking you in advance.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

127.72 MHz said:


> ^^ I recall a thread where you reviewed, in great detail, the two maker's shoes. Honestly Nick I respect your opinion and I admit that I may not have read additional comments you may have made.
> 
> To be right honest, given Eagle2250's comments: *"He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration"* I did make an assumption that you may have said, or made the inference, that Alden shoes are superior in some way to Allen Edmonds.
> 
> ...


I was totally confused by your remarks in post #65.
After reading the above quoted post, I felt the need to clarify things:
If you can find a post where I write that Alden's are better than AE please post it because I never wrote it. My unwavering position has always been, since the current leadership took over at AE and righted some wrongs, dollar for dollar they are a better value than Alden's. Further, IMO, DocD put it perfectly with his interpretation of "closing the gap" giving AE an even greater value in terms of product and service.
Then, you get posts like 62 regarding J. Crew. He's he's concerned about the "impact in quality if (AE) were not prepared for the volume increase". 
Come on...If your paying attention, the leadership of AE knows what it's doing. They have their finger on the pulse as they continue to grow:State loan to fund Allen-Edmond's expansion, hiring By Doris Hajewski of the Journal Sentinel 
Oct. 20, 2010 | Allen-Edmonds Shoe Corp. will get a $1.5 million loan from the state to fund an expansion and the creation of 200 jobs, Gov. Jim Doyle said Wednesday. 
The state is providing a $1.5 million Community Development Block Grant Economic Development loan to Allen-Edmonds to invest in its $3 million expansion project, which will create up to 200 jobs. The project will also retain 220 good-paying jobs at Allen-Edmonds' in Port Washington factory. 
The expansion project includes the warehouse, the hand-sewn and recraft lines, a new custom line, and improvements to the existing plant, machinery and equipment, along with training new and existing employees on new production and distribution processes.
The men's shoe company is owned by Goldner Hawn Johnson & Morrison in Minneapolis. The company cut 8% of its jobs in 2008, but has recently rehired some workers and created some new positions. Allen-Edmonds employs about 600 people, including about 300 in southeastern Wisconsin. 
The company also has plants in Lewiston, Maine, and in the Dominican Republic. It makes 90% of its shoes in the U.S. (18)


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Eagle, I was of course only joking. With all you've said about your trad wardrobe and selection of shoes, you need to share some pictures with us someday!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^

LOL. Someday I will have to overcome my technological aversions/difficulties and unravel the mysteries of posting pics in these fora. I've established photo files in the media library on my desk top, but when I attempt to load them on this site, I get various trouble messages back, providing me with a litany of reasons why the photos will not load on this site. However, at this point I am relatively certain that the problems are not resident with AAAC, but rather with my apparent affliction with Cyber-dyslexiacrazy!

Have a great day Jovan!


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> In addition to going back and rereading Nick V's post(s), you might also go back and re read(?) my postings to this thread. In summary I commented that personally, I could not see any quality differences in AE's and Alden's, except perhaps in the quality of finish on their respective shell cordovan offerings. In which case, based on my purchases, I felt the Alden shell cord finishes were preferable. I also said that as AE streamlined several of their shoe designs, I found that Alden's comparable designs offered more roomy toe boxes, providing a more comfortable fit for my feet. When Nick V. quoted a conclusion, reflected in one of DocD's postings, regarding a perception of difference in quality of the two brands being narrowed as AE's QC improved and Alden's deteriorated somewhat, I bowed to his obviously greater experience with the designs offered by both AE and Alden. Please, re read the posts referred to in this summary to avoid a future claim by you that I have intentionally left out some salient details of my comments.
> 
> How you find anything in these comments with which to take such extreme offense, befuddles me. To be blunt, what the hell is your problem? I am as much of a fan of AE's and Alden's as you seem to be. Perhaps we are simply getting a glimpse into the fevered mind of a foot gear fetishist() or perhaps you are simply wearing your opinions regarding the points under discussion just a bit to close to the skin. Take the time to (be objective and at least ) read the post, to which you seem to seem to be claiming offense! Thanking you in advance.


Firstly I have not taken "Extreme offense" to your comments. And I have no problems at all with other opinions. But there's a group of us, (I think you have the ability to check my private messages from others who feel exactly the same way that I do) who grew sick and tired of opinions being passed off as fact.

I have gone over the entire thread and I would like to know specifically what you meant by this comment:
*"LOL. While I've purchased enough pairs of AE's to receive three free pairs through their Cobbler's Club program and with 15 pairs of Alden's on my shoe racks, I earlier assumed and continue to believe that Nick V., in his profession, has seen and handled considerably more pairs of each brand, than have I! He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration"*

I have not found a post where Nick said that he preferred one verses the other yet your above quoted post indicates to me that there you believe that differences that Nick has posted, (somewhere) indicate that Alden is a superior shoe in one way or the other,..... Based upon your post I've quoted how can anyone come to another conclusion?

And for what it's worth you did not say that you "felt the Alden shell cord finishes were preferable," You said that, *"You have found the finish of Alden's to be clearly superior."* Looking over several pairs of Alden and Allen Edmonds shells I can't see how you can say that but, none the less, you're entitled to your opinion on the subject.

As I've stated I do not feel there ever was a difference in the quality of the two manufactures shoes. I have watched my Cobbler pull the soles off my Alden and my Allen Edmonds shells to re-sole them and although there are slight differences how can anyone say that one is better than the other when I have shell cordovan pairs from both manufactures that are *twenty plus years old and showing little signs of wear?*

Fit? Being a C width I cannot wear any Barrie lasted shoe. Does that mean I should make a comment like: "I find the Allen Edmonds offerings to fit me better then those from Alden." (??) Of course not! It's the last and it has nothing to do with Alden shoes across their entire line. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

P.S. I appreciate you mentioning the three free pairs of shoes you've earned through Allen Edmonds Cobblers program. It reminded me to ask where I stood as I was placing an order this morning through the Port Washington store. They're sending me my third free pair through the program along with my order,...







Purchased a new pair of McTavish







And I'm having to get my Big Sir's free as a special make up since they're not currently offered in a "C" width. (with a couple of extra special features)


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> 
> LOL. Someday I will have to overcome my technological aversions/difficulties and unravel the mysteries of posting pics in these fora. I've established photo files in the media library on my desk top, but when I attempt to load them on this site, I get various trouble messages back, providing me with a litany of reasons why the photos will not load on this site. However, at this point I am relatively certain that the problems are not resident with AAAC, but rather with my apparent affliction with Cyber-dyslexiacrazy!
> 
> Have a great day Jovan!


That's because you're linking them from your computer, which will never work. You have to upload them to a website first. Photobucket is a good one.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Jovan: Thanks for the direction. I will try to put it to good use!



127.72 MHz said:


> Firstly I have not taken "Extreme offense" to your comments. And I have no problems at all with other opinions. But there's a group of us, (I think you have the ability to check my private messages from others who feel exactly the same way that I do) who grew sick and tired of opinions being passed off as fact.
> 
> I have gone over the entire thread and I would like to know specifically what you meant by this comment:
> *"LOL. While I've purchased enough pairs of AE's to receive three free pairs through their Cobbler's Club program and with 15 pairs of Alden's on my shoe racks, I earlier assumed and continue to believe that Nick V., in his profession, has seen and handled considerably more pairs of each brand, than have I! He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration"*
> ...


127.72 mhz: You really should allow your mind, rather than your emotions, control the application of your fingers to the keyboard! Should you want examples of this emotionalism, take a look at the emotion reflected in your responses to Doctor Damage, Nick V., Rambler and myself, throughout this thread. Give me an example of where any of us has made any wildly disparaging remarks about AE or Alden or either Brand being vastlysuperior or inferior to the other. However, the short answer to your question of the intent reflected in your quotation of a portion of my post #52 is that I was simply acknowledging Nick V's affirmation of Doctor D's response to one of your earlier posts, in which he (Doctor D) inferred the qualitative gap between the two brands was narrowing, as AE's quality improved and Alden's frequency of blemishes/defects increased somewhat. If you would take the time and invest the marginal energy necessary to read Doctor Damage's post #50 (offered in response to your post #48), Nick V's post #51 (affirming Doctor D's comments in post #50), my post #52 (acknowledging Nick V's expertise regarding the repair of shoes and knowledge of brand histories necessary to affirm Doctor D's assumption of facts in Doc D's post #50), it just might occur to you that you are arguing about nothing.

Regarding our (yours and mine) conflicting opinions about the quality of the finish applied to AE's and Alden's shell cordovan offerings, I guess we just have to agree to disagree. However, I doubt that either one of our opinions are objective due to the fact opinions, by their very nature are subjective, but we are both entitled to our own and I suspect neither carries any more weight in ths argument, than the other!

This really is all the the mincing of words that I care to engage in with you regarding this issue. If you wish to dedicate/waste any more you your or my lifes energy to this, please send me a PM so that we might stop monopolizing the direction this thread is taking.

PS: I do hope you enjoy your new AE's as much as I intend to enjoy my recently ordered Darlton boots and Preston slip-ons! Also, not to make it a competition but, the oldest pair of AE's still in my possession are a pair of 27/28 year old shell cordovan Leeds, that have been fully recrafted twice and are still looking fine on the outside but, given the worn state of the insole and lining, even AE said they would not recommend recrafting them a third time. Their shoes eventually do wear out if worn regularly! :thumbs-up:


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ In terms of my emotions, simply put, you're in no position to assume that this has affected me on an emotional level. I'm simply willing to call people on claiming there's any difference between the quality of Alden shoes verses Allen Edmonds.

Beyond that, you mentioning others as if to imply that it gives your point of view more creditability does not matter in the least.

You go on to state that you don't care for "mincing of words" with me yet you reply at length,.....??? Could it because you want the last word? Rhetorical question,...

Why haven't you replied as to specifically what you meant with your comment: (?) "*"He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration"

*Anyone would make an assumption based upon the above comment.

Might it occur to you that since, (again in my opinion) there is *no objective difference* between the quality of Alden and Allen Edmonds shoes that you have been arguing about nothing?

I don't care to go back and forth either. But given the outright bologna that is often spouted about the so called differences between Allen Edmonds and Alden shoes by several members I will.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

127.72 MHz said:


> ^^
> 
> Why haven't you replied as to specifically what you meant with your comment: (?) "*"He repairs both brands. If he sees differences between the two brands, IMHO, that bears serious consideration"
> 
> ...





eagle2250 said:


> .... However, the short answer to your question of the intent reflected in your quotation of a portion of my post #52 is that I was simply acknowledging Nick V's affirmation of Doctor D's response to one of your earlier posts, in which he (Doctor D) inferred the qualitative gap between the two brands was narrowing, as AE's quality improved and Alden's frequency of blemishes/defects increased somewhat. If you would take the time and invest the marginal energy necessary to read Doctor Damage's post #50 (offered in response to your post #48), Nick V's post #51 (affirming Doctor D's comments in post #50), my post #52 (acknowledging Nick V's expertise regarding the repair of shoes and knowledge of brand histories necessary to affirm Doctor D's assumption of facts in Doc D's post #50), it just might occur to you that you are arguing about nothing.
> 
> ....


Based on the above quotations, it appears that I did respond and you were incapable of reading and understanding that response. 127.72 MHz, you should really try to expand your life interests beyond your beloved AE's. There is more to life...there really is!


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ Right I'm incapable. Nuff said.

And I have no other interests beyond by beloved Allen Edmonds, no family, career, German autos, motorcycles, marine chronometers, vintage fly rods, gourmet food, travel, or much of anything else. You're spot on pal, as usual.

And for the sake of clarity I'll answer for you, Nick V. has never said that Alden is in any way superior to Allen Edmonds shoes.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

At risk of stumbling into an incipient hornet's nest:

I have much respect for the two of you, and I sense that a misunderstanding between two intelligent men is starting to careen out of control. Your points have far more in common than in disagreement, and the parsing of words and phrases is not yielding any benefit.

Let it go, my forum friends...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
That is excellent counsel, Tiger. At this juncture it is perhaps best to allow others to read what has been said and reach their own conclusions. Clearly you are wise beyond your years, my young forum friend!

Have a great evening.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

It is a good idea to let other read this mess and reach their own conclusions,....


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