# Shetland Showdown: Bean vs. Brooks



## BigTC (May 10, 2010)

Has anyone gotten their mitts on one of BB's new Shetlands yet? I'm wondering how they compare to Bean's, which I think are reasonably good *for their price.* I'm sure BB's are higher quality - but if I'm going to pay almost 160% more, I expect the quality to be SUBSTANTIALLY better. Any thoughts, gentlemen?


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

Why would you be sure BB are a better quality. Mine pill just as bad as any other Chinese Shetland.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
With the BB sweaters purchased a few years back and made in Scotland, I believe, there was a very clear difference. But alas, as fireDancer has observed, recent BB sweater purchases have performed no better than LL Bean's or Lands End sweater offerings!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Shetland wool just means that the wool comes from Shetland sheep (the breed, not the islands). There are flocks of Shetland sheep all over the world and the quality of the fleece varies from flock to flock and sheep to sheep. Bean calls their wool "premium Shetland" while Brooks calls theirs "genuine Shetland." Not exactly accurate descriptors. Neither lists a yarn supplier, so it's impossible to tell which is better quality without seeing and feeling them in person. My guess is that both are similar quality, but for an extra $80, Brooks gives you saddle shoulders.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

^ excellent point hard line. And depending on who you ask, I'd say saddle shoulders are a must for a Shetland.


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## BigTC (May 10, 2010)

I'm going to have to do some serious mental gymnastics to convince myself that saddle shoulders are worth and additional $80, but I've pulled off similarly impressive feats before. 

Thanks for the input.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
...or wait for the clearance sales and buy the BB Shetlands for essentially the same price you would have paid for the LL Bean Shetlands!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

BigTC said:


> I'm going to have to do some serious mental gymnastics to convince myself that saddle shoulders are worth and additional $80, but I've pulled off similarly impressive feats before.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


For me, the saddle shoulders are like a hook vent on a blazer. It's a nice detail and serves a small purpose, but it's not a deal breaker if it's missing. And, given that I'm very short with broad shoulders, saddle shoulders don't do my proportions any favors. I've toyed with it in the past, but this year I'm planning on buying a few Wool Overs . They feature raglan sleeves and they're made of 100% British Wool which, unlike Shetland, actually has some standardization behind it.


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

I haven't had a bean shetland, but both my BB shetlands have very strange sizing. They seem to run big in all dimensions: large throughout the chest and body, super low armpits, and very long in the arms and body. And I'm not one to complain about sleeve length; I need 26/37" sleeves! You would be wise to size down, but I don't know if that would help.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

For me, a person with too many sweaters, saddle shoulders are a must. Not for function, I just like the look. But, once you get into the BB price range, the competition gets pretty stiff, and they're going up against offerings from O'Connells, Press, Andover, etc.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> For me, a person with too many sweaters, saddle shoulders are a must. Not for function, I just like the look. But, once you get into the BB price range, the competition gets pretty stiff, and they're going up against offerings from O'Connells, Press, Andover, etc.


Rambler, I know from your WAYWT photos that you have relatively flat, as opposed to sloping shoulders (I hope you don't mind my pointing it out). How do the saddle shoulders look on you? Mine are just broader than I'd like for my stature and I feel like the saddle shoulder acts almost like a structured-shoulder jacket. It might just be my eye, though.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

DoghouseReilly said:


> I haven't had a bean shetland, but both my BB shetlands have very strange sizing. They seem to run big in all dimensions: large throughout the chest and body, super low armpits, and very long in the arms and body. And I'm not one to complain about sleeve length; I need 26/37" sleeves! You would be wise to size down, but I don't know if that would help.


I've never gotten a decent fit out of the box for most wool sweaters. Blocking (soak, pin down, air dry) takes care of any fit issues.


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

These look pretty nice. On sale too.

https://www.bensilver.com/Authentic-Shetland-Sweaters,20554.html


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

And these seems nice too...

https://www.hunterandcoggins.com/catalog/hunter-and-coggins-sweaters

Not to turn this into a general Shetland thread. I have a BB Shetland from 3 years ago and a Bean one from 2 years ago. The BB one is definitely nicer, but I think it's made in Scotland. But it pills too. I don't think pilling is 'necessarily' a symptom of a lower quality sweater, I think it's just a general sign of use of any wool garment.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

hardline_42 said:


> Rambler, I know from your WAYWT photos that you have relatively flat, as opposed to sloping shoulders (I hope you don't mind my pointing it out). How do the saddle shoulders look on you? Mine are just broader than I'd like for my stature and I feel like the saddle shoulder acts almost like a structured-shoulder jacket. It might just be my eye, though.


I don't have that kind of fit issue, at least not that I'm aware of. I find set-in sleeves to be less forgiving - they often seem a little to big or small in the shoulder, probably because the seam deliniates the end of the shouder more exactly, if that makes any sense. It's not a problem if you're in a store where you can try things on, but I seem to get all my sweaters on they internet, these days.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

I'm sure I've said this before on one thread or another, but if you are looking for a well made, warm Shetland, and I emphasize warm, I think The Andover Shop and O'Connells' sweaters are far superior, which is reflected in their prices. They're both considerably thicker than both the Beans and the BBs. The Andover Shops' do not have saddle shoulders, if that is a deal breaker. But you can't get more authentic. Last Fall I ordered two made to measure sweaters from Scotland from one of the manufacturers mentioned elsewhere on the forum. They are nice for the price, but lack the thickness.


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

I've become picky about my Shetlands. I only buy sweaters made in Scotland and I only wear saddle shoulders. Most of my recent purchases have been here on the Exchange or on E-Bay. It's not necessary to spend a lot to get a great sweater. There are a plethora of crewneck Shetlands, including many older Brooks Brothers models made in Scotland available on the web for no more than $40. My biggest problem is resisting the urge to keep buying.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

xcubbies said:


> I'm sure I've said this before on one thread or another, but if you are looking for a well made, warm Shetland, and I emphasize warm, I think The Andover Shop and O'Connells' sweaters are far superior, which is reflected in their prices. They're both considerably thicker than both the Beans and the BBs. The Andover Shops' do not have saddle shoulders, if that is a deal breaker. But you can't get more authentic. Last Fall I ordered two made to measure sweaters from Scotland from one of the manufacturers mentioned elsewhere on the forum. They are nice for the price, but lack the thickness.


Thickness can be a double edged sword though...as many of us don't live in areas where it gets consistently cold enough to need a truly thick sweater. For me here in Maryland, the Shaggy Dogs [for example] are too thick to be useful.

I will agree, as I have mentioned before, that the O'Connell's are the absolute best Shetlands available, if money is no issue...judging on features alone, they have every detail you'd want, and are available in a zillion colors.


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

Walter Denton said:


> I've become picky about my Shetlands. I only buy sweaters made in Scotland and I only wear saddle shoulders.


+1 for saddle shoulders. The shoulders sit so much better.



Danny said:


> I have a BB Shetland from 3 years ago and a Bean one from 2 years ago. The BB one is definitely nicer, but I think it's made in Scotland. But it pills too. I don't think pilling is 'necessarily' a symptom of a lower quality sweater, I think it's just a general sign of use of any wool garment.


Danny, how is the fit on your BB shetland? Is your experience with them similar to mine?


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

I didn't have any sizing issues with my BB Shetland. It's a M, and I am a 41R suit jacket, 16/33 shirt, and it fits pretty well.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

The last Shetland sweater I purchased from Bean (A sweater vest) wasn't as good as the last Shetland sweater I purchased from Brooks. (Another sweater vest.)

It was better.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> Shetland wool just means that the wool comes from Shetland sheep (the breed, not the islands). There are flocks of Shetland sheep all over the world and the quality of the fleece varies from flock to flock and sheep to sheep. Bean calls their wool "premium Shetland" while Brooks calls theirs "genuine Shetland." Not exactly accurate descriptors. Neither lists a yarn supplier, so it's impossible to tell which is better quality without seeing and feeling them in person. My guess is that both are similar quality, but for an extra $80, Brooks gives you saddle shoulders.


Bean has been sourcing English spun yarn for their Shetlands, though they are knit in China.

Edit: Correction; current description makes no mention of English spun wool. Lambswool sweaters do.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Danny said:


> And these seems nice too...
> 
> https://www.hunterandcoggins.com/catalog/hunter-and-coggins-sweaters
> 
> Not to turn this into a general Shetland thread. I have a BB Shetland from 3 years ago and a Bean one from 2 years ago. The BB one is definitely nicer, but I think it's made in Scotland. But it pills too. I don't think pilling is 'necessarily' a symptom of a lower quality sweater, I think it's just a general sign of use of any wool garment.


Finding myself strangely tempted by the Hunter and Coggins Shetlands and looking for just a bit more justification to buy, Danny, have you had a chance to experience the Hunter and Coggins product? If so, what were your impressions? Have any other members tried them?


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Finding myself strangely tempted by the Hunter and Coggins Shetlands and looking for just a bit more justification to buy, Danny, have you had a chance to experience the Hunter and Coggins product? If so, what were your impressions? Have any other members tried them?


Last week I emailed Hunter and Coggins for some photos of their shetlands, here are the photos they sent me...


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

They look good. Wouldn't be surprised if they're the same supplier as O'Connells as they look very similar and are $30 cheaper...


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Indeed, they do look tempting in the pics...worth a test purchase anyway. Thanks much Danny for the prompt feedback! Have a great day.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

This thread is making me feel good about the coming change of seasons. For what it's worth, my all-time favorite shetlands are (were) made by McGeorge, who supplied O'Connells. They still pop up occasionally on ebay.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

The Rambler said:


> This thread is making me feel good about the coming change of seasons. For what it's worth, my all-time favorite shetlands are (were) made by McGeorge, who supplied O'Connells. They still pop up occasionally on ebay.


I have McGreorges and recent OConnells house brand and I think they're indistinguishable. I've noticed that there is some variation in the thickness between some of the McGeorges.


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

The Harley of Scotland Shetland sweaters from Bahle's of Suttons Bay are also very nice. Some of them are currently on sale for $69.99 in limited sizes. Regularly priced at $110. I purchased one last spring and am very satisfied with it.
Example:


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## cglex (Oct 23, 2006)

The LL Bean sweaters I have purchased over the last 10 to 15 years, includeding thier Shetland clones, have never dissapointed, largely because I have always had low expectations given their low prices.

The BB sweaters I have purchased over the last 10 to 15 years have always disapointed to varying degrees, because I paid more, had higher expectations, and they performed not much better than Ll Bean's over the course of time, although BB's look better out of the box.

Today,I pay much, much more and buy most of my sweaters from the Andover Shop, a 20 minute drive for me. For Shetlands, I like those from Murray's the best as they are beefier, not brushed and wear a bit better. However, the Murray's wear out as fast as the others, and I am thinking of going back to the cheapo LL Beans.

When buying shetlands, remember they first started as cheap sweaters for college kids many years ago (as compared to even lambswool and certainly cashmere, merino, etc.) All of my shetlands over the past decades wear much faster than other types of sweaters. So going cheap on Shetlands if lacking scratch makes a lot of sense and is historically correct.

As for fit, don't expect much from anything in a small, medium large sizing. Sweaters by chest size will almost always fit better.

Good luck all.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

xcubbies said:


> I have McGreorges and recent OConnells house brand and I think they're indistinguishable. I've noticed that there is some variation in the thickness between some of the McGeorges.


Xcub, I basically agree, though I have one from the first year they switched manufacturers, and it had set-in sleeves and was generally not up to the McG; byt I've ordered one since, and it's terrific, just like the McG.


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

Loving all the sweater talk. I plan on trying one of each (Bean & BB) this season. We will see how it goes. The color selection at O'Connell's is rivaled only by Spirit of Shetland. Now that BB's are only $40 cheaper than O"Connells maybe I will make the leap, but they never run a sale. I will mention one other. Though I know they have a bad reputation as a brand, Rubgy has some brushed shetlands for $98 and a surprisingly nice color selection. Billax wore a nice looking yellow one on the forum last year.

Why are so many manufacturers smallest size a medium? Don't forget about us somewhat smaller guys.

Does anyone care to weigh in on the Shetland vs Lambswool? I have a few of each and do not notice very much difference.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Really? The one is finer gauge with a soft handle, the other heavier, coarser, lends itself more to a heathered look, hmm, I'm not doing well with the words - anyway, it is amazing that the small has all but disappeared, replaced by xxl. Mediums are pretty full in the shouder and long in the sleeve, I find. I sympathise. Is it because people wear things for an oversized look? The "obesity epidemic?"


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

You must have nicer lambswool sweaters than I, OCBD. My lambswools were all very thin and a bit rough. They seemed like pallid imitations of a shetland.

As for the alpha sizing problem, I'll echo an earlier poster in saying that numbered chest sizes are the way to go. Alpha sizing is such a crapshoot.


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

Rambler & doghousereilly - Thanks, that makes sense. I think it is that i have many more lambswool sweaters than Shetlands, so not much to compare.


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## DoghouseReilly (Jul 25, 2010)

The only ones I had were the 20 buck ones from the Club Room label at Macy's. They were ok, but that's before I had a shetland.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

^that explains it Doghouse

Lambswool runs the gamut ( as we know all yarn does) but can be almost as soft as cashmere. I have no problem wearing it without an undershirt or with a t-shirt underneath. 

Shetland on the other hand is much rougher to the touch and for this reason feels better ( and looks better as well) layered over a collared shirt.


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## Ensiferous (Mar 5, 2012)

I prefer lambs wool to Shetland wool now, even with the trade-off of lesser durability and a greater tendency to pill. It is much softer and the slightly reduced thickness is all I need for warmth while still fitting under SJ's. They don't last as long, but I enjoy wearing them. I save the Shetlands for when my outfit is more rugged in overall texture or application. If I need to wear an undershirt to tolerate a sweater, I just won't wear it very often anyway.

When I was young, my mother would _always_ pull a Shetland over my head on every cold day, and I did all my winter mountaineering in a ragg wool sweater (big micron size of fiber) before the synthetic fleece era, so I am well inoculated to scratchy wool -- but I just don't tend to choose it any more.

I put on a nice lambs wool sweater and think: "Ahhh..." When I put on the typical Shetland I think: "Ughh..."

There are certainly variations in softness among my Shetlands, some close to lambs wool. But I remember opening my first McGeorge of Dumfries, inspecting the hand, and thinking "Sheep wool? This thing is just like single-aught steel wool!" And the Dundee was even worse, but looked great.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

both must-haves for me, as well as camel hair and cashmere, of course; the scratchiness of shetland builds character, like cold showers at sunrise :icon_smile_wink:


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

I have the handsome mid-blue heather LLB shetland from last year's clearance, very nice "everyday" sweater especially when on sale! I may stock up on the russet heather, but a lot of my winter budget is going towards one to two more Shaggies


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

firedancer said:


> Why would you be sure BB are a better quality. *Mine pill just as bad as any other Chinese Shetland.*


It's caused by the diet of stinky tofu, chow mein and leftover malatang that Chinese Shetland sheep eat.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL. Good gosh, I've got the worst case of the hungry's!


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