# The Ascot: yes, no or maybe?



## Serenus (Jun 19, 2009)

What do you all think about this less common piece of neck decoration? I bought a few from Andrew's in Philadelphia and people's reaction ranges across the board. On an evaluation last semester a student wrote "Pay him more $$$ so he can buy more ascots".

In which situations do they work the best? Does one play them down or up? Should I stick the evaluation in my tenure file? I'm interested to know your experiences!


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

No for most people unless you run in really stylish circles.

Especially no for business.


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## randomdude (Jun 4, 2007)

I'd say I'm pretty adventurous when it comes to clothing but no ascots for me.


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## Sir Cingle (Aug 22, 2009)

Long ago, I bought an ascot at BB--when I was in high school (!). It quickly became something I wore almost exclusively to costume events. Though I got some compliments when wearing it, I also got a lot of nonplussed stares. It's the sort of item--even more than a bow tie--that you have to wear knowing it's going to attract a lot of attention--both positive and negative.

To be honest, I think it looks best on older men. They've earned the right to wear an ascot. Until I reach that age, mine will be sitting in the closet.


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*they are teh awesome*

okay, I don't actually own one yet, but ascots are the perfect thing for when open collar is too sloppy/casual and a tie would be too much.

As seen above, many people are afraid of them. I used to think pocket squares, broques were too poncy, but I've evolved. Somehow the rather impractical spectator shoe gets all kind of love, but the versatile ascot gets shat upon.

People who want to wear jeans and sneakers at all times surely recoil at ascots, and that is all the more reason to love them.


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## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

If I wore an ascot to work, I would never hear the end of it; for that matter, I don't think I'd hear the end of it from my wife!


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

Those to the ascot born can correct me, but I don't think one was ever proper attire for work. Rather it was like a smoking jacket, something to wear when one removed the more staid garment (the tie, the dinner jacket) and still wanted to look put together. Of course, all of this was way in the past. Perhaps not so way back. Living in Madrid three decades ago, I bought an ascot and would wear it with a double-breasted blazer and gray flannel trousers, particularly if having other couples for drinks at my place and every single man was wearing a double-breasted blazer and gray flannel trousers, with a repp tie -- every single woman wore a little black dress. The ascot was my way of wearing the uniform, with a variant that marked me as the host. It was an eccentricity but one that in that rather conservative time and place did not really stand out; certainly no one ever made a comment. Since then I haven't had the nerve to wear one again. Thinking about it now, I think I just got my nerve back.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I got an ascot in college, wore it to Fraternity dinners and it was always a hit. It's a fun item for sure, but you need the right attitude to pull it off.

Brian


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I guess it would depend on one's social circles. I honestly can't remember ever actually seeing someone wearing one in person with the exception of at costume parties where I've seen couples dressed up as Thurston Howell III and his wife Lovey. But then again I don't run in ascot wearing circles.

Cruiser


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

_'He's obviously queer. He wears an ascot and so forth....'_






Richard Nixon on the Nixon tapes 1971

In Britain even the UKIP party have said disparaging things about cravats, as ascots are called here.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Ascots are good for:

-- Old guys with wattles
-- Jokes/irony
-- Special occasions calling for bit of the above

It's hard to imagine anyone else (at least in America) pulling off an ascot without seeming marinated in self-involvement and vanity. Which actually should appeal to a number of posters here.


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## Acacian (Jul 10, 2007)

For satirical purposes only, in my case. It just reminds me of Niedermeyer in Animal House.


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## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

I wear one very ocassionally, but NEVER for business-it is a casual item. Can certainly be worn with a sport jacket.


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## Benzito (Aug 23, 2009)

^^^ Don't forget the monacle and cigarette holder as well. And I think it's a rule that you carry your left hand in your coat pocket at all times as well.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Ascots are, along with walking sticks and some other things, in the category of stuff I can't wait to be able to pull off when I'm an old man.

Until then, not for me.


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## Herrsuit (Aug 4, 2009)

My dad had a friend who in the 60s and 70s, in his 30s and 40s, would wear an ascot all the time once off work with sports coats or smoking jackets. He pulled it off really well. It's something you have to own with total confidence if its not done tongue in cheek. I could never do it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

efdll said:


> Those to the ascot born can correct me, but I don't think one was ever proper attire for work....


Allow me to correct you sir. For some odd reason the USAF saw fit to incorporate ascots (we called them "Dickies! ) with the wearing of flight suits and missile combat crew uniforms. I'm pretty sure they were crafted of some type of polyester material (double !) and they were adorned with our respective squadron patches and occasionally with a pin displaying a numerical representation of the number of HQs the wearer had received on standboad evaluations. I cannot remember a single crew member (including myself), who would/will admit to being fond of wearing the ascot/dickey), as part of our uniforms!


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## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

I've worn a cravat a few times - to matinee performances on Broadway, to the Fall meet at Keeneland and other less-than-formal events where a tie would be too much and an open throat too little. There are places where it doesn't attract unwanted attention and where, in fact, they keep some body heat in.


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## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

Good Old Sledge said:


> I've worn a cravat a few times - to matinee performances on Broadway, to the Fall meet at Keeneland and other less-than-formal events where a tie would be too much and an open throat too little. There are places where it doesn't attract unwanted attention and where, in fact, they keep some body heat in.


Good points.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

A three point hat also keeps in body heat.


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## anselmo1 (Dec 22, 2006)

It depends on the situation and your wardrobe.

https://charmingdandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/carygrant.jpg


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

*"The Ascot: yes, no or maybe?"*

First, most and always! :icon_smile_big:

If you like them, and if you think they flatter you, wear them whenever the occasion permits and the mood takes you. They complete a man's dress with a tie-less jacket, and offer an opportunity to add a bit of color and design.

They are discreet and pleasant to most when worn with only the top button of the shirt undone, and without puffing up the silk. Don't fuss with it. It will ride lower and askew which will only enhance its casual elegance. You will eventually become more comfortable with it, and once you are, very few will even note it, rather than your generally improved appearance. 

And other than in the U.S., they are known as day cravats in English speaking countries. Should you use the term ascot, something very different and inappropriate will come to mind for these gentlemen.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

I like them. I own them. I wear them. It is the same with opera pumps and bow ties you must have the guts to wear them and don't care what people say.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Allow me to correct you sir. For some odd reason the USAF saw fit to incorporate ascots (we called them "Dickies! ) with the wearing of flight suits and missile combat crew uniforms. I'm pretty sure they were crafted of some type of polyester material (double !) and they were adorned with our respective squadron patches and occasionally with a pin displaying a numerical representation of the number of HQs the wearer had received on standboad evaluations. I cannot remember a single crew member (including myself), who would/will admit to being fond of wearing the ascot/dickey), as part of our uniforms!


The one I was issued in basic was a toxic Day-Glo yellow. It had snaps at the back. I think I may have worn it once in formation on parade. Not being a part of my unit's uniform, I never wore one again. However, I did get to wear a red baseball cap that I despised. I found it more appealing once the bill fell off and I had stapled it back on. So I stuck one of these on it -

https://usafssdad.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/usafss_patch.png


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## redmanca (May 29, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> Ascots are, along with walking sticks and some other things, in the category of stuff I can't wait to be able to pull off when I'm an old man.
> 
> Until then, not for me.


+1 on both points.


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## Serenus (Jun 19, 2009)

The Cary Grant photos are indeed fabulous and classic. I've heard that he felt somewhat self-conscious about his neck and liked to cover it up somehow.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> The one I was issued in basic was a toxic Day-Glo yellow. It had snaps at the back. I think I may have worn it once in formation on parade. Not being a part of my unit's uniform, I never wore one again. However, I did get to wear a red baseball cap that I despised. I found it more appealing once the bill fell off and I had stapled it back on. So I stuck one of these on it -
> 
> https://usafssdad.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/usafss_patch.png


LOL...Great patch job on the ball cap! USAF Security Service...a very dedicated and 'freakishly' talented group of professionals! My hat is off to you, sir.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

*Ascot, YES!!*

Charlie don't surf!!


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## Mr. Tweed (Apr 9, 2009)

*Cravat inspiration*

Although I think I have mentioned it before, I do have a post on my weblog that you might find relevant:

Hopefully it provides the encouragement needed to get you all into cravat action!

Yours,
Mr. Tweed


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## TradMichael (Apr 13, 2006)

Ditto with all that's been said. I bought my first ascot (er, day cravat) from London via eBay a few years back when, upon having turned thirty, I figured I was already old with all my best years behind me and might as well go on and wear what I want. That said, everything in this blasted decadent culture is against it---just imagine stepping into your local drinking establishment in one, where the decor consists of advertising neons and stapled-up posters provided free of charge by the international brewing companies. About the only situations I can conjure are being invited on someone else's boat (since I can't afford a raft), hosting for cocktails or for a leisurely drive in the country or along the shore when the destination's a picnic on the beach or something.


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Allow me to correct you sir. For some odd reason the USAF saw fit to incorporate ascots (we called them "Dickies! ) with the wearing of flight suits and missile combat crew uniforms. I'm pretty sure they were crafted of some type of polyester material (double !) and they were adorned with our respective squadron patches and occasionally with a pin displaying a numerical representation of the number of HQs the wearer had received on standboad evaluations. I cannot remember a single crew member (including myself), who would/will admit to being fond of wearing the ascot/dickey), as part of our uniforms!


I stand corrected, thank you, sir. And embarrassed not to have remembered Duvall in all his glory. Though it's telling that while Cary Grant wore it off camera -- at least off movie camera, God knows those publicity stills were heavily posed -- Duvall never did or does, that I know of. Though it would seem quite proper for dancing the tango in Buenos Aires, his passion. I will correct myself and say it is not proper _office_ wear, though if anyone is still doing Casual Fridays, an ascot/cravat strikes me as just right.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

efdll said:


> Cary Grant wore it off camera -- at least off movie camera, God knows those publicity stills were heavily posed -- Duvall never did or does, that I know of.


It should also be kept in mind that Duvall's character in that movie was portrayed as not much more than a cartoon character, a caricature, much in the same way they did with Jim Backus as Thurston Howell III on _Gilligan's Island_. I suspect the purpose of the ascot is to identify them as eccentric persons.

Cruiser


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Steve McQueen wore an ascot just about every day. And so did Paul Newman, except when he was racing cars, but sometimes even then. 

Actually, I think an ascot (on a youngish guy, although 30 is extremely advanced in years, broke down and decrepit) would function nicely as a birth control device, a kind of "OFF" to keep away the ladies.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

Of course, unlike most of the nay-sayers, I look good in them. So, as the mood strikes, I wear one. Since my wife likes it, it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

As to those who say it is a costume, everything we chose to wear was selected with a mind to present a "look" and could be described as a costume.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

David V said:


> Of course, unlike most of the nay-sayers, I look good in them.


Zzzzzzing!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> LOL...Great patch job on the ball cap! USAF Security Service...a very dedicated and 'freakishly' talented group of professionals! My hat is off to you, sir.


Thank you. Well, certainly freakish anyway.  Rather like a combination of Animal House and Buffalo Soldiers. :icon_smile_big: Hours of complete boredom interupted by more hours of complete boredom. However, the mission was important, and in retrospect I'm honored to have served.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Benzito said:


> ^^^ Don't forget the monacle and cigarette holder as well. And I think it's a rule that you carry your left hand in your coat pocket at all times as well.


...and a fez!!

Very Klink-like!!


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## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*dunno*

it's not a problem in europe, albeit even there it is sightly aristocratic so i'd tend to wear them in a cafe rather than a working class pub during a football match. but i think we are more tolerant of mild eccentricity than many people are in america.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Joe Beamish said:


> Steve McQueen wore an ascot just about every day. And so did Paul Newman, except when he was racing cars, but sometimes even then.


How do you know Paul Newman wore an ascot every day? I'm not saying that he didn't, but if he did I can't find any evidence of it. In fact, unless he was dressed for a specific occasion such as an event or a photo shoot, Newman generally dressed in a very casual manner to include denim jeans and tee shirts. In a bit of irony I just posted these pictures in the other forum earlier today.




























Cruiser


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Did I say Paul Newman? I'm sorry. I actually meant Clint Eastwood. Clint has always worn an ascot. Or was it a cowboy kerchief?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL! Perhaps a discussion comparing the character traits of those choosing to wear ascots vs cowboy kerchiefs is in order at this point? If it was an ascot that Clint Eastwood was wearing, I'm pretty sure he blew his nose into it and mopped his brow with it, several times!


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Edward from The League of iGentlemen is a noted local Ascot wearer :-


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## Larsd4 (Oct 14, 2005)

For me, not a chance. I just don't have the family background that is implied by wearing an ascot. It would be a costume. If I were from such a family, I would have my butler typing this for me.


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## HSCarre (Sep 13, 2009)

It's funny, I got to this forum (very interesting place by the way) while I was looking for information on Ascots/Scarves for men.

I have been a scarf "enthusiast" for quite a long time, and have to agree with a number of posters here that it _does_ seem to get easier to be an ascot/scarf wearer as you get older. I am in my mid-50s now, and find that I am far less reluctant to wear a scarf with an open-collared shirt or a crew-neck sweater than I used to be. As a younger man, I was far more comfortable wearing a scarf with casual outfits when I was overseas than I was here in the US.

I prefer a folded silk square (28" or larger) to the pre-folded ascots sold in men's stores only because they are a bit more versatile in how they can be tied. Price-wise the silk squares seem to range the gamut from nice designer silk twill scarves ($50-200) to Hermès ($295-375).

Anyhow, I am thrilled to have found this forum/board, thanks for all your insights! Cheers!


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

If you're planning on going on a three-hour tour with a skipper; his idiot first mate; a movie star; a professor; a cute, girl-next-door type; and your wife, Lovey, go ahead and wear it.

Otherwise, no.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

...or if you plan on attending a theatrical production on a Saturday evening and hit the cast party afterward.

As I did.


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## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

IMHO, this is a proxy for a grander debate - how to dress properly during the age of dressing down. In the vast majority of American towns, being well dressed is not the norm (not that I have to tell anybody here that...). I find myself dressing down frequently so as not to stand out in many situations. As for any manner of dress, it's only a "costume" if you go the extra mile and develop an accent, discuss polo matches you have not been to, and start calling every woman within earshot "Muffy." The Ascot is not a formal accessory. Wear it as such if you are comfortable in it. I happen to think it looks and feels great, but don't know if I'd feel comfortable in many situations with it. _$.02_.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Hmm. Do you guys think context is important to questions like this? Like, where you are, who you're with, and what you're doing? Or would a consensus on this point tend to stall this awesome thread?


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## CM Wolff (Jun 7, 2006)

WindsorNot said:


> As for any manner of dress, it's only a "costume" if you go the extra mile and develop an accent, discuss polo matches you have not been to, and start calling every woman within earshot "Muffy."


I want to disagree slightly and say that over time, certain items of clothing that once were worn as part of being well-dressed morph into "costume" solely due to changes in cultural norms and public opinions. For instance, no one walks around wearing spats anymore. The response to this thread shows that ascots might indeed be approaching costume in some ways. They are surely not at the level of spats yet, but still must be considered with care...


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## Drew Bernard (Feb 19, 2009)

No. An ascot (or "scarf") is definitely not part of _*the curriculum*_. Take this discussion to the metrosexual forum. Please.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

If anyone is looking for a pro argument look at Bruce Boyer's essay in "Elegance"
The best looking ones I ever saw were Ancient Madder paisley, dark colored 30 or 40 oz made by Drakes in the early 90's. The ones I saw I believe were samples but they were great. I do not remember if they were made commercially.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Drew Bernard said:


> No. An ascot (or "scarf") is definitely not part of _*the curriculum*_. Take this discussion to the metrosexual forum. Please.


So wearing one to the spa or shopping is OK?? 

I may get one for dinner parties at home.

When tie is too formal.

And I don't want guests staring at my undershirt or chest hair!!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

WindsorNot said:


> I find myself dressing down frequently so as not to stand out in many situations.


I was self-conscious in my youth. But in my decrepitude, I mainly find myself unconscious. So, if whimsy dictates, I shall happily wear one of my beautiful day cravats in Jack's honor upon a Saturday night at Sardduci's! :icon_saint7kg:


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## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

CM Wolff said:


> They are surely not at the level of spats yet, but still must be considered with care...


Agreed, this appears to be the consensus.



Flanderian said:


> I was self-conscious in my youth. But in my decrepitude, I mainly find myself unconscious. So, if whimsy dictates, I shall happily wear one of my beautiful day cravats in Jack's honor upon a Saturday night at Sardduci's! :icon_saint7kg:


Don't get me wrong, I consider a bow and sport jacket/blazer my uniform. I simply keep an eye on the setting/weather/types of people I'm going to be around when deciding what to wear. You'll get no argument from me, however, in that the older a gentleman, the more whimsy is allowed by modern society.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

No - at the risk of upset, few can get away with what is now an eccentric form of dress. Simply because something has been around a long time does not make it good. 'Trad' can easily be turned into 'costume'.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> I was self-conscious in my youth. But in my decrepitude, I mainly find myself unconscious. So, if whimsy dictates, I shall happily wear one of my beautiful day cravats in Jack's honor upon a Saturday night at Sardduci's! :icon_saint7kg:


Very nice! There was nobody there with an ascot, and possibly nobody there with a tie when I had dinner there Saturday.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

I remember the time I wore shoes other than flip-flops. My coworkers said, "interviewing today?"



GBR said:


> No - at the risk of upset, few can get away with what is now an eccentric form of dress. Simply because something has been around a long time does not make it good. 'Trad' can easily be turned into 'costume'.


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

This is something best left to the adults.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Drew Bernard said:


> No. An ascot (or "scarf") is definitely not part of _*the curriculum*_. Take this discussion to the metrosexual forum. Please.


Way off base.

A day cravat is part of a gentlemen's trad or british inclined wardrobes for casual occasions. Optional of course.

Metrosexual epitomzes the completely neckwear free look even for business.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Yes, well. I guess my sarcasm was meant to point out: It's casual out there these days, even in Downers Grove (where I had clients a couple years ago who wore jeans most the time). SO...context matters if you're gonna roll out the more pretentious gear and don't want to seem pretentious.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

I was aboard a cruise ship and saw what I took to be an octengenarian wearing an ascot and I thought it looked good. I donned mine and wore it to dinner with no ill effects. This could be due to my advancing stage of wattles or maybe folks just admired my courage. It does amaze me how illogical we can be about an item of clothing. An ascot is after all a piece of silk around the neck. Couldnt get much closer to being a tie, which does not cause all the debate.(not quite yet) These great items are being phased out as we dumb down the sartorial arts. Looks like Allen Edmonds has discontinued the "Ritz", it patent leather pump with grosgrain bow. I have mine, and some ascots beside. I'm ready to roll! Damn the wattles..full speed ahead!


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## Prepdad (Mar 10, 2005)

My vote: no. never. ever.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

windsor said:


> This could be due to my advancing stage of wattles or maybe folks just admired my courage.


 
In my case I've decided that the silence of potential critics results from their fear of inciting a medical emergency!


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## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

To answer the original question, maybe.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Joe Beamish said:


> Hmm. Do you guys think context is important to questions like this? Like, where you are, who you're with, and what you're doing? Or would a consensus on this point tend to stall this awesome thread?


Yes. At 26 years old, I can't think of a context where it would be acceptable for me to wear one.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> Yes. At 26 years old, I can't think of a context where it would be acceptable for me to wear one.


Perhaps you need a new context?


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## KennethB (Jul 29, 2009)

I just got Flusser's book from the library. He has a picture of a youngish guy in the business casual chapter who looks pretty sharp wearing an ascot.

I'm in my mid...er...late fourties and all this talk makes me want to try wearing one.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> Perhaps you need a new context?


Feel free to suggest some.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Serenus said:


> What do you all think about this less common piece of neck decoration? I bought a few from Andrew's in Philadelphia and people's reaction ranges across the board. On an evaluation last semester a student wrote "Pay him more $$$ so he can buy more ascots".
> 
> In which situations do they work the best? Does one play them down or up? Should I stick the evaluation in my tenure file? I'm interested to know your experiences!


First I take it an ascot is also known as a cravat? Yes/no? I have worn a cravat on a number of occasions this past winter to the theater and orchestral events. It did raise a few eyebrows amongst certain gentlemen. While I wouldn't wear one in an office environment I think that they are appropriate for the Academy and social events.

As for the students comments I think there great, don't know what your head of school wold think though.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> Feel free to suggest some.


OK.

You can often find a rather nice lot here -

https://hastingshouse.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/03/08/mybloggarmischphoto2.jpg

But watch out for hustlers at the Speilbank!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

ajo said:


> First I take it an ascot is also known as a cravat? Yes/no?


Yes and no. Most Americans know the day cravat by the name ascot, because that is what American RTW retail decided to call it many years ago.


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## ajo (Oct 22, 2007)

Flanderian said:


> Yes and no. Most Americans know the day cravat by the name ascot, because that is what American RTW retail decided to call it many years ago.


But does it differ in terms of construction? A image I saw of an Ascot had a thin neck strap then the material flared out. The cravats I have aren't made this way. Or does this mean I have been wearing a faux cravat.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Late forties??? Can you still get around without a walker? Without tripping over your wattles? You must get a lot of requests for interviews from journalists inquiring into your good habits that have kept you afloat so long. Those must exhaust you! :icon_smile:



KennethB said:


> ...I'm in my mid...er...late fourties and all this talk makes me want to try wearing one.


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## KennethB (Jul 29, 2009)

Joe Beamish said:


> Late forties??? Can you still get around without a walker? Without tripping over your wattles? You must get a lot of requests for interviews from journalists inquiring into your good habits that have kept you afloat so long. Those must exhaust you! :icon_smile:


My considerable ire was raised yet again this past week when I was subjected to the ignominy of an intrusion on my privacy, conducted by means of the insulting mechanical-tele-phone device, by a reporter calling from the infamous _Gentle-Man's Quarterly Gazette_.

Long life is the ardent desire of many. Indeed, some of you may achieve it, as I have. But once you find your-self out-living your pet Galapagos tortoise, you may do well to question your luck. [apologies to T Herman Zweibel.]


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

ajo said:


> But does it differ in terms of construction? A image I saw of an Ascot had a thin neck strap then the material flared out. The cravats I have aren't made this way. Or does this I have been wearing a faux cravat.


The ascot/day cravat is as you describe it, being made with a folded neckband flaring out to a normally full then pointed tip. The only other cravat with which I am familiar is that for formal wear, which I believe has a straight tip. I have no doubt there are other uncategorized versions with which I am unfamiliar.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

It is also my understanding that a cravat for formalwear is lined like a necktie, whereas the ascot is just silk.


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## Mr. Tweed (Apr 9, 2009)

*This is a day cravat*

Ascot in American English, day cravat in British English.

(this one is cotton lined)

Yours,
Mr. Tweed


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

*Military funeral detail*



eagle2250 said:


> Allow me to correct you sir. For some odd reason the USAF saw fit to incorporate ascots (we called them "Dickies! ) with the wearing of flight suits and missile combat crew uniforms. I'm pretty sure they were crafted of some type of polyester material (double !) and they were adorned with our respective squadron patches and occasionally with a pin displaying a numerical representation of the number of HQs the wearer had received on standboad evaluations. I cannot remember a single crew member (including myself), who would/will admit to being fond of wearing the ascot/dickey), as part of our uniforms!


Another military use for ascots in the early 70's was for funeral detail. I was assigned to a detail in northern California from Beale AFB and we were all handed the Air Force blue ascots to wear as we accompanied the family to the cemetary. Not a pleasant memory but one that I was honored to do for the family of a fallen soldier.
Tom


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## ItalianGent (May 2, 2008)

I have about 20 ascots. I don't wear them all the time, and I certainly wouldn't wear one to work. But when I have worn them, which is usually about 6 times a year, nobody seems to care, and I haven't heard any negative comments.

Remember, it's about calm confidence.:aportnoy:


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## Mr. Knightly (Sep 1, 2005)

Orgetorix said:


> Feel free to suggest some.


As another 26 year-old, I've found it's much easier to pull off in a major city. If you're in a small town, you're pretty much out of luck.

I think it works at jazz clubs with a blazer and jeans (unless you're in NY, in which case you're probably wearing a suit at the better jazz clubs). 
I'll also wear it out to dinner. 
At the right kind of bar it works (not pubs or sports bars...more like hotel bars).


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## Calvin500 (Jan 16, 2009)

I plan to have my wife make me an ascot ASAP, and can envision wearing one once or twice a week. I didn't wait until I was an old man to start smoking a pipe. Lots of things I wear or do are much more typical of people my parents' age or older. I don't see why these concerns should give me pause when it comes to neckwear. 

I'm also getting a little bit gray and am inching up on the big three-0. The way I see it, I'm older than I've ever been--a good reason to wear something decidedly "old man".


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## redmanca (May 29, 2008)

Calvin500 said:


> The way I see it, I'm older than I've ever been--a good reason to wear something decidedly "old man".


Hah! Great quote there TCC. Might have to steal it for the blog...

How's the pipe, btw?

Conor


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

^ I like the quote to the effect that 40 (or is it 50?) is "the old age of youth, or the youth of old age". 

In the spirit of the latter choice (embracing being the youth of old age), the ascot could work.


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## Calvin500 (Jan 16, 2009)

redmanca said:


> Hah! Great quote there TCC. Might have to steal it for the blog...
> 
> How's the pipe, btw?
> 
> Conor


Steal away.

The pipe you passed along had its first go this past weekend in the mountains. I tried each of the tobaccos you sent, and I *think* I enjoyed each, though probably not for sophisticated reasons. Thank you, again!

Pipe and ascot seem like they are a natural pair, yes?


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## Mr. Tweed (Apr 9, 2009)

*Pipe and ascot a natural pair*

Indeed...

Yours,
Mr. Tweed


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## Pr B (Jan 8, 2009)

*So, what happened?*

So, what happened to the ascot/cravat? Why is its use now constrained to fops and theatrical stereotyping for Thurston J. Howell III types ? Was there some catalyst or cultural shift?


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## Calvin500 (Jan 16, 2009)

Pr B said:


> So, what happened to the ascot/cravat? Why is its use now constrained to fops and theatrical stereotyping for Thurston J. Howell III types ? Was there some catalyst or cultural shift?


Yes, let's get to the bottom of this, lest, once the ascot/cravat is revived, it should see another quick and unfortunate demise--history repeating itself due to our failure to apprehend its lessons.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

I'd start with the demise of Latin in our schools, and work my way down from there to ascots and other items of apparel. But the ideas are probably connected in some way.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Pr B said:


> So, what happened to the ascot/cravat? Why is its use now constrained to fops and theatrical stereotyping for Thurston J. Howell III types ? Was there some catalyst or cultural shift?


I used to impersonate Bugs Bunny for a lark.

Then I really started to talk like him.

When I realized i was sounding like an ignoranamus, I stopped!!

Hence, the revolving loss of irony and the ascot's ascention!!

Eh, what's all the hub-bub, Bub??


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## Calvin500 (Jan 16, 2009)

*Well, what do you think?*
























My wife finally gave in to my demands and made me an ascot. What think ye?


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*in a world of Gilligans...*

First pic is perfect, knot or puffing is a bit off in second.
Made from virgin fabric or remnants? Great patterns and colors. Somebody gets it!


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## Calvin500 (Jan 16, 2009)

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> First pic is perfect, knot or puffing is a bit off in second.
> Made from virgin fabric or remnants? Great patterns and colors. Somebody gets it!


COJr--Thanks. Agreed--the first knot and drape worked while something went awry in #2. These were made from neckties from this tutorial. I'm glad you like the colors/patterns. I do too. I'm wearing this to a preacher's conference this afternoon and then to dinner and pipe smoking with some friends this evening.


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## gordgekko (Nov 12, 2004)

To answer the original question: No.

I don't mind occasionally venturing into less charted waters -- at least by modern standards -- but they seem a little much in this day and age. Not as bad as wearing a cape though.


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

I don't see anything odd about it, and it doesn't look that "strange" to me.

Tucked into the shirt, it's highly informal, but there are many formal ways to wear one. However, they would be too formal for everyday business.


Things that look "costumey", in my opinion, are things that are poorly made (or of poor material or poor fitting) or that the wearer feels precocious about. If it's a good item and fits well - it's up to the wearer to pull it off. Obviously, not everyone has the personality for certain things - and some might simply not have a "loud" enough personality (for whatever they're wearing) that declares to all around them, "This is who I am and this is how it's supposed to be" without introduction.



@Calvin500, I agree - great choice of patterns. :icon_smile_big:


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## Calvin500 (Jan 16, 2009)

Sufferable Fob said:


> I don't see anything odd about it, and it doesn't look that "strange" to me.
> 
> Tucked into the shirt, it's highly informal, but there are many formal ways to wear one. However, they would be too formal for everyday business.
> 
> ...


SF--Thank you. I think your perspective here is well articulated and, in my opinion, right on. Cheers.


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## choirmaestro (Aug 27, 2008)

OK - that does it! I think for a landmark birthday coming up - I am going to get myself an day cravat and tell the establishment to go to hell! :icon_smile_big:

I dunno - I think I could pull it off. Guess we'll find out in a few months...


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## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

Mr. Tweed said:


> Although I think I have mentioned it before, I do have a post on my weblog that you might find relevant:
> 
> Hopefully it provides the encouragement needed to get you all into cravat action!
> 
> ...


I really like the way that is pulled off in that photo. Used in an understated manner like that I think it looks rather good.


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## Mr. Tweed (Apr 9, 2009)

Thank you, Nicesuit!

There is really nothing strange about wearing a cravat. It is just another way to show some silk around your neck...

Yours,
Mr. Tweed


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## Calvin500 (Jan 16, 2009)

So today's the 3rd time I've rocked the ascot in the past week or so. I'm liking it. 

I scandalized people in Colubmia, SC by wearing it at dinner amidst a mob of garnet-and-black last Thursday.


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## redmanca (May 29, 2008)

Calvin500 said:


> So today's the 3rd time I've rocked the ascot in the past week or so. I'm liking it.
> 
> I scandalized people in Colubmia, SC by wearing it at dinner amidst a mob of garnet-and-black last Thursday.


Good. They deserve to be scandalized. You should have Ellie make an orange one and wear it next time you're there.

Conor


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## camcravat (Dec 21, 2008)

*ascots / cravats with confidence*



ItalianGent said:


> I have about 20 ascots. I don't wear them all the time, and I certainly wouldn't wear one to work. But when I have worn them, which is usually about 6 times a year, nobody seems to care, and I haven't heard any negative comments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*A couple of guys at work occasionally wear an ascot. No one has made negative comments; they look good and are comfortable. The Europens aren't the only ones who should considered to be able to be able wear an ascot. It's all about personal taste; ascots are elegant and useful. Some people seem to have a problem with this. Life is short.*


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## Charles74 (May 2, 2010)

I, too, occassionally wear ascots to the office and all comments have been positive. I feel they dress up the business casual look


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## Fedora Freak 61 (Nov 3, 2010)

I purchased two new/like new silk ascots at a local thrift store back in September.One is a ROBERT TALBOTT brand,the other a TIE RACK brand,and both were priced under $2.Last Friday I finally got up enough nerve to wear one to work(expecting to curry snide remarks and such).The only comments or feedback I got on my red ascot were positive and complimentary.I think an ascot is a nice middle ground between sport coat & no tie and sport coat with tie.Definately too casual for business,but a bit more polished than going tieless.










My ghetto home made Halloween costume(Yacht Captain),with ascot:









FF61


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## Ματθαῖος (Jun 17, 2011)

Spaulding:



Caddyshack said:


> Ahoy polloi... where did you come from, a scotch ad?


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## dr.turducken (Nov 6, 2012)

*More a European thing*

I think most Americans will think that ascots are for Thurston Howell, but I do see them from time to time on perfectly normal people in Europe. They don't look amiss there. I think it's all about context, and Americans just don't wear them or aren't used to seeing them.

Just today, I saw a reporter on the noontime news in Brussels wearing one.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Ascot: Yes, No, Maybe?

If it's red and white cotton, called a bandana, and worn tied to the neck with a square knot on a hot sunny day, then yes. Otherwise, I don't know. I would suspect if one regularly wears a pocket square, then an ascot would not be a stretch. It's a good look, but not for me.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

If you wish to be in the League of Gentlemen, Edward wears one, bought from a local shop for local people


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## Yuca (Feb 19, 2011)

This gentleman was the king of ascot with ivy:










There are even photos of him wearing an ascot with a polo shirt - warning: don't try this at home, kids!


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## Yuca (Feb 19, 2011)

Personally, I believe an ascot and a soft collar are a winning combination.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Yuca said:


> This gentleman was the king of ascot with ivy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously!? I'm trying to imagine it, but failing. Google isn't helping either.

Pics or it didn't happen! :devil:


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## Yuca (Feb 19, 2011)




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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ you can't argue with the proof.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Kingstonian said:


> If you wish to be in the League of Gentlemen, Edward wears one, bought from a local shop for local people


And Alan Partridge:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> And Alan Partridge:
> 
> View attachment 5972


Note his Capt Bligh impression too. :devil:


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Shaver said:


> Note his Capt Bligh impression too. :devil:


Yes, it occurred to me that you might make that dig.:wink2: Both Edward and Mr. Partridge could be prayed in aid against the blazer, but this is because of the overall geeky / oddball look established for those characters (including cheap tacky blazers, but more obviously the ascots).

There are many examples of good and bad in this thread; the King of Sweden (post #15) and the Duke of Edinburgh (post #58) get it right, as do the military chaps in their "boating jackets" (post #98): https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...!-(pics)...&highlight=blazers+blazers+blazers

My point about ascots is rather like my view of bowties. They are not for everyone, and will not suit everyone (no matter how good you think you look in one). In answer to Snow Hill Pond's point, for my part there is a massive difference in dandyism between sporting a discreet pocket square and wearing a bow tie or an ascot (speaking as someone who wears the former but neither of the latter two).


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

Balfour said:


> My point about ascots is rather like my view of bowties. They are not for everyone, and will not suit everyone (no matter how good you think you look in one). In answer to Snow Hill Pond's point, for my part there is a massive difference in dandyism between sporting a discreet pocket square and wearing a bow tie or an ascot (speaking as someone who wears the former but neither of the latter two).


Sorry Balfour. No offense meant.

For what it's worth, I like wearing bowties during the holiday season, but I've never worn an ascot or pocket square during any season. My thinking being that if a tie is required, then a bow tie is as acceptable as a regular necktie. Optional (at least for me) items like ascots and pocket squares cross that imaginary line (that admittedly is different for each individual) where the only possible outcomes are wild success or miserable failure.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Sorry Balfour. No offense meant.


Or taken!:wink2: Just volunteering a personal perspective in response to what I thought was an interesting point.

For me the visual impact of a bowtie is much more dramatic than a subdued white linen pocket square peeking out of the breast pocket. But that reflects the sort of discreet pocket squares I tend to favour. As you say, the line will be in different places.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ it's a much proffered cliche, I concede, but once you start wearing a square then jackets without look distinctly unfinished.


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

In moderation, yes: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...ad-What-are-you-Wearing&p=1345543#post1345543


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ Just the way I like to wear them, restrained.


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## Anthony Charton (May 7, 2012)

The Ascot tie is a large piece of silk with an _unpleated_ narrow neckband, traditionally in striped grey, neatly folded and pinned together, worn exclusively with morning dress. The term stems from the association with the Ascot races (and the tow in Southern England), where proper morning dress is mandatory. (Although not so these days... sigh.)

The cravat (I stand against the term 'day cravat' as it implies the existence of an evening specimen, which, to my knowledge, there isn't) is a more rudimentary piece of cloth floded over and tucked into a shirt. Most modern makers, if not all, pleat the neckband area (which is possibly the most efficient way of telling the difference between a cravat and a proper ascot tie.)

(Incidentally, for a great thread on Ascot ties: )

To answer the question: I occasionally wear a cravat, though less frequently than before. I usually do so on casual days, when I have a lot of work to get done, or when I just can't pick a tie. (But then I am in my twenties and I live in the UK.) Many of my friends do so as well. I would support Balfour in his argument: it's certainly not for everyone, and a cravat has the potential of making the wearer look perfectly ridiculous when badly knotted - but then again, so does every article of neckwear).


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Joe Beamish said:


> Ascots are good for:
> 
> -- Old guys with wattles
> -- Jokes/irony
> ...


Coffee-through-nose on that one. I am sending you the cleaning bill (for the ascot, of course). :icon_smile_big: My grandfather was buried in an ascot, first and only time he ever wore one. A regular guy, he worked the Reading railroad for 30 years (and collected retirement from them for 31, rather famously). What were they thinking?


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## rsgordon (Dec 6, 2012)

Easy yes/no question - Are you the Duke of York?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^I once enjoyed the peerage Duke of Manchester but was stripped of my title in circumstances that I would rather not discuss.  

Presumably despite my now humbled status this might allow me to don a cravat?


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

I finally got an ascot and wore it for the first time. Ignoring the fabulously rich, rakish look it imparts, the practical warmth it imparts was quite a surprise. I never realized how chilly my throat was and how much heat has escaping that open area. Ascots really seal off a draft. I liked the idea, but love the reality.


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## bellemastiff (Aug 17, 2011)

dr.turducken said:


> I think most Americans will think that ascots are for Thurston Howell, but I do see them from time to time on perfectly normal people in Europe. They don't look amiss there. I think it's all about context, and Americans just don't wear them or aren't used to seeing them.
> 
> Just today, I saw a reporter on the noontime news in Brussels wearing one.


^ This.

You can pull it off in Europe.

Maybe in America as well IF you're 60+ yrs old.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

Not being a passive type, I'm doing my part to getting the American populace used to seeing the ascot. With it or against it, as they say.


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## Pale_Male (May 20, 2013)

Yuca said:


> Personally, I believe an ascot and a soft collar are a winning combination.


I agree. BB has several nice long-sleeve polo shirts and a few popover models that would work quite well.


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## AshScache (Feb 4, 2013)

Personally, I think that it is impossible for anyone under 60 to wear one in the USA without seeming like you're playing dress-up which is precisely NOT the reason most of us dress the way we do.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

An ascot has a certain gravitas, don't be scared of style gents. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

I must add that my maiden wearing immediately taught me why the things tend to puff up, as a flat fold-over of fabric is being asked to achieve a three-dimensional curve. I lacked the patience to tweak to a neatness as that shown above but am open to any pointers. Presumably it's just a matter of pinching in little pleats at strategic points.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Tempest said:


> I must add that my maiden wearing immediately taught me why the things tend to puff up, as a flat fold-over of fabric is being asked to achieve a three-dimensional curve. I lacked the patience to tweak to a neatness as that shown above but am open to any pointers. Presumably it's just a matter of pinching in little pleats at strategic points.


It really depends on the cravat. I have a wool cravat that is utterly superb, achieves the perfect fold and stays there come what may. For silks I favour a cotton backed type which again folds well and stays put. Some of my flimsier single sheet silk cravats are annoyingly given to riding up and down my neck, which I dislike - and so precipitate regular tweakings. The best cravats money can buy are to be found here, my purveyor of choice for silken items https://fortandstone.co.uk/


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Shaver said:


>











Hmm . . . . ? :icon_smile_big:

(Absent silliness, well done!)


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

Shaver said:


> The best cravats money can buy are to be found here, my purveyor of choice for silken items https://fortandstone.co.uk/


This is indeed a better selection than I have been able to find. I must note that the one I have is 54" long and they offer a more reasonable 48" length.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes. If I had more than one, even more so. I'm tempted to fold a suitably large silk scarf and tie it as one, but I think that might be a bit too much even for me.

A quick question for those with a better-developed selection of ascots: are there any particular prints that are an "essential?" They're an unusual enough item to be highly personal, but are there one or two which make for especially good basic choices?


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## Anthony Charton (May 7, 2012)

Dots, and/or conservative patterns reminiscent of the proper morning dress ascot tie:

https://www.tomsawyerwaistcoats.co....USTOM/2009/LARGE/knightsbridge-cravat-lge.jpg .

In general though, I recommend geometrics. https://www.tiesplanet.com/images/navy-blue-geometric-pattern-casual-cravat-p221-274_zoom.jpg

Paisley can look cool, but it's easily overdone.

I use to be a big cravat-wearer, though I haven't donned one in a long time now. I feel like it's become a summer thing for me.


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## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

Flanderian said:


> View attachment 9419
> 
> 
> Hmm . . . . ? :icon_smile_big:
> ...


I agree it looks devilishly good!

https://horrorhomework.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tumblr_m4ufltptVK1qa70eyo1_1280.jpg


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Motivated by Shaver's sterling example, and in his honor, today I wore the ascot/day cravat's poorer cousin, the neckerchief.









Discovered by, and kindly shared with us all by Oldsarge, these folks sell hand printed cotton voile in a 30" X 30" size that folds up nicely to form a fine neckerchief, that I prefer to wear tied in a square knot. While they were initially intended only as ladies' scarves, a number of patterns and colors serve well as a man's neckerchief. The example above was worn with a window pane check BD of suitable color, Khakis, an LL Bean saddle color barn coat, and Sander's ivy-green suede brouges. Even my wife complimented me, though she though complains about them generically, as she thinks she shouldn't like them! :icon_smile_wink: It's surprising how such a small touch can lift and focus everything with which it's being worn. And it even has the significant practical advantage on a cold day such as it was of sealing out the cold from the neck of an otherwise open-necked shirt.


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## Roycru (Apr 13, 2011)

I sometimes wear an ascot when it is cold and I am not wearing a necktie. Here I am on a cold day last winter, wearing a brown paisley ascot....


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

I wear them even in summer, with shorts:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Roycru said:


> I sometimes wear an ascot when it is cold and I am not wearing a necktie. Here I am on a cold day last winter, wearing a brown paisley ascot....


:icon_hailthee:
Roycru IS the Man!


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

I think a young man has a better chance of making an ascot work than someone of my age (60). In fact, I sometimes wore one when in my early 20s. Today I'd just look ridiculous. 

Keep in mind I live in the midwestern USA. Perhaps in New York City someone like me in an ascot could look like he didn't just exit stage left, but not here in Ohio.


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## brantley11 (Mar 31, 2009)

I wear an ascot probably 4 times a year and everyone comments on how much they like it. I am 30 years old with a beard--it can be done even in the deep south.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

MaxBuck said:


> I think a young man has a better chance of making an ascot work than someone of my age (60). In fact, I sometimes wore one when in my early 20s. Today I'd just look ridiculous.


I wore them as a teenager, and 50 years later, I still do! :icon_cheers:

(Looking ridiculous has little to do with what I wear, it's God-given virtue! )


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

Cruiser said:


> I guess it would depend on one's social circles. I honestly can't remember ever actually seeing someone wearing one in person with the exception of at costume parties where I've seen couples dressed up as Thurston Howell III and his wife Lovey. But then again I don't run in ascot wearing circles.
> 
> Cruiser


I've seen one person wearing an ascot, the 4th or 5th generation CEO of a privately held billion dollar company. This happened to be in an after hours setting in a rrestaurant his company owns.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

Serenus said:


> What do you all think about this less common piece of neck decoration? I bought a few from *Andrew's in Philadelphia* and people's reaction ranges across the board


Anyone else been there? Do they have anything except dot patterns?


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