# Do European women have better style?



## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

Warning - cultural stereotyping ahead.



Today I saw a picture of a woman walking down a city street and I thought "she has to be European, or that has to be European street." She was wearing 5 random, odd garments/accessories but they all seemed to work together.

This made me think, in college I knew probably four european women who always looked stylish or well put together. Well coordinated. You knew thier outfits took some thought, even if they didn't cost a lot.

Those that have traveled in Europe (or live there), would you agree or disagree?


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Fascinating topic. I can offer some gross politically incorrect generalisations that have no basis in anything other than narrow personal prejudice. I've always found Italian women by far the most stylish, followed by French women. British women are definitely not stylish in the accepted sense, but their lack of style lends them a certain... well, style. American women can look good but tend to be too self-conscious when dressed up. But they can get away without being stylish. American women are more natural, like Scandinavian and German women. For lack of style with nothing much to redeem them there used to be Eastern European women (Rumanian, Russian, Polish, Bulgarian, etc.). However, this is changing fast. Spanish women are also developing a certain attractive brashly self-confident style they didn't have before. I admit to being heavily - and willingly - influenced by movies and historical/cultural stereotypes, but stereotypes do tend to be self-propagating: it's possible I only notice the women who correspond to my stereotypical expectations. But isn't that part of style?


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

It depends. I've seen some fabulously stylish Italian and French women in those countries, and some Londoners with great style as well. I was just in the US Northeast and was very impressed with the way some women were put together as well.

Part of this might have something to do with the availability of really good quality clothing, or knowledge of what suits best and sticking with it instead of being a fashion victim, and local custom. For example, in a lot of European countries, sneakers/trainers are not something you would ever wear outside of a workout, but in the US, with our relentless pursuit of casual comfort among both women and men, you see them a lot and they usually aren't that flattering.

I would hazard a guess that many Americans (and I am often guilty of this myself) probably place convenience and comfort over great personal style.


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Italian and French women have way more style than American women. And while I do not have the typical US aversion to women's hairy armpits, I do wish these lovely women showered more often.

British women are in need of dentist. I do love the American comedian's observation of European women (I think it was in Germany) sitting around a pool naked. He thought one woman looked like she had Buckwheat in a head lock. Now that's a picture. 

NYC women are another story. From a style perspective it should be considered a country all on its own.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

This is purely anecdotal, but I tend to think there is a much greater interest in fashion abroad. There's a puritanical streak in the U.S. that frowns upon dressing well.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

I figured out another aspect of the look.

Americans seem to be more prone to spend money on lots of cheap stuff.

So its more common to see a man wearing a tie, pocket square, and cufflinks that all match. Its also common to see a woman with shoes, handbag, necklace, belt, and earrings that all match. So in these cases, you need lots of accessories, however they all only work with the other ones that exactly match them. And it looks very contrived [B)]

The European women that I have noticed seem to be able to blend and mix much more stylishly. It doesn't match, but it coordinates. And it is much more pleasing (as is a properly coordinated gentleman).

And of course, it doesn't cost as much to buy a few versatile accessories vs boxes of cheap cufflinks and pocket squares that you would only wear with that ugly matching tie.


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## Mahler (Aug 5, 2005)

There's an undergraduate student on my campus whose style knocks me out every time I see her. No flip-flops, no PJs, no A&F crap. Instead: classy shoes, well fitted shirts, nice pants. Even the way she walks carries a sense of superb style. A friend of mine who was her TA (recitation section teacher) for a semester tells me she's Turkish, which I'd never guessed from appearance.
I've almost walked up to her to pay a compliment, but it always strikes me as cheesy and potentially embarassing (she'd probably think I wanted to make advances at her, which is not the case) thing to do, so I withdraw last minute. If any of you gentlemen on the forum know any elegant ways to pay such a compliment without appearing to sound silly, let me know.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

I always like to compliment ladies on their appearance when I'm really impressed. I often go out of my way to do so. I find discreet hommage is always well received if it's sincere. Credit where credit's due. Just be natural.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

I agree with Rich. I don't take sincere compliments in "that way" if they're addressed at personal style or an ensemble rather than my eyes or by someone staring at my chest!

*"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


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## LabelKing (Sep 3, 2002)

French women I have seen are stylish. Of course, they like to call it their "je ne sais quoi." The chicness of it.

British women tend to go crazy. Witness their hats, especially at Ascot.

*"In truth, I am not altogether wrong to consider dandyism a form of religion."

Charles Baudelaire*


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

I think a big factor is that when an Italian or French woman walks down the street she expects to be looked at and appreciated, without necessarily being hunted, so she develops a certain poise, a certain self-confidence, sometimes even a certain aggressivity or controlled provocativeness. This is so in Spain too, although Spanish women have only recently acquired the self-confidence (basically since the death of Franco) that is a long tradition in France and Italy - whence a certain brashness I find rather attractive. French women have often told me that men don't pay attention to them in the UK or US, or else it's the wrong kind of attention.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I'm going to play diplomat and in deference to our own forum ladies state each one is unique. My girl is romanian. Growing up in a country plundered by totalitarianism the east is still re emerging from literal darkness. Bucharest was once known as the Paris of the east and translates to Joyfull City.The grey palor is being replaced with floweres everywhere and repainted buildings Yes, she knows how to dress, and I've never seen a more astute shopper squeeze a wardrobe out of $600 USD or show so much happiness at not looking ragged. But then she almost fainted after I fed her properly too. She has a MA in Psychology! It gives one pause.


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## Roy_h (May 11, 2005)

I don't think the women in my country have a lot of style. There are plenty of beautiful women though, but often they have no clue on how to dress or behave themselves.


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## TE Hesketh (Nov 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> British women are in need of dentist.


Where on earth does this idea come from? Do you really belive that when a British woman opens her mouth there is nothing to see but rotting teeth?


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
> 
> French women have often told me that men don't pay attention to them in the UK or US, or else it's the wrong kind of attention.


I once worked on a NATO base overseas and fondly remember two French airmen who used to show up every time my friend and I went to lunch. Their flirting was charming, and would be hard for some American men to pull off without coming across as "stalkerish".

With Italian men, likewise. (I'm not picking on American or British men, who have a more casual approach, but their wooing style is different, and this leads to what women come to expect, and perhaps to how they dress as well.)

*"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by TE Hesketh_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not rotting, more likely misaligned. Orthodontomania hit the US much earlier than it did the UK.


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## Aileron (Oct 15, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> Italian and French women have way more style than American women. And while I do not have the typical US aversion to women's hairy armpits, I do wish these lovely women showered more often.


Let me say a couple of things.

One, you haven't got the faintest idea about what you are talking.

Two, all of my French girlfriends, past and present, would rip your guts out for writing such false garbage.

Three, what's the matter, never got "lucky" in Europe?

Aileron
NYC


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Aileron_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm tempted to say tintin's hygienist remark tells us more about American male hangups than it does about French and Italian women. Our judgement of others always reveals a lot about ourselves (myself included).


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Holy crud. Didn't mean to upset you so much. 

One: You're right. I don't know what I'm talking about. It's an opinion. Based on experience. My experience. 

Two: Why would your past and present French girlfriends rip my guts out for saying French women have more style than American women? And is the "present reference" plural as well? If so, you're doing much better than me. 

Three: I was married when I did business in Europe. So no, I didn't get lucky. Although I did in my thoughts...many times. 

What I love most about travel is opening myself up to new things. Food, clothes, music, politics. And yes, I even find armpit hair very sexy. It's wrong of me to generalise about millions of women and I appreciate you calling me on it. I also love the UK and Italy (Umbria). France...not so much. But that's me.


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## Aileron (Oct 15, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> Holy crud. Didn't mean to upset you so much.
> 
> ...


1. The showering part is BS and you know or should know that.

2. So is the "hairy armpit" crap. Paris is not Bosnia.

Aileron
NYC


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## Roy_h (May 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Aileron_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who says that Bosnian women have hairy armpits


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

If you're saying all French women shave under their arms then you're the one full of Merde.


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## lichMD (Jun 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mahler_
> 
> There's an undergraduate student on my campus whose style knocks me out every time I see her. No flip-flops, no PJs, no A&F crap. Instead: classy shoes, well fitted shirts, nice pants. Even the way she walks carries a sense of superb style. A friend of mine who was her TA (recitation section teacher) for a semester tells me she's Turkish, which I'd never guessed from appearance.
> I've almost walked up to her to pay a compliment, but it always strikes me as cheesy and potentially embarassing (she'd probably think I wanted to make advances at her, which is not the case) thing to do, so I withdraw last minute. If any of you gentlemen on the forum know any elegant ways to pay such a compliment without appearing to sound silly, let me know.


In days gone by a discrete tip of the hat as she walked by would have conveyed admiration for her dress and personal sense of style without inferring a sexual connotation to the compliment.
I find nothing untoward, and have had no negative repercussions, from a targeted verbal compliment either in NYC or abroad. Just be tasteful in your statement.


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## Aileron (Oct 15, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> If you're saying all French women shave under their arms then you're the one full of Merde.


Oh, of course not. Merely, the classy ladies with whom I associate.

Aileron
NYC


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Tintin wrote:

If you're saying all French women shave under their arms then you're the one full of Merde.

~~~

If you look, you can find an unshaven woman on every corner of the earth.

I have dated more French women than any other "group" of women and have never encountered a "hairy arm pit" in my life. 

In fact, I would say the average French woman is far more refined and groomed than any other group of women excluding perhaps the ultra pampered North American woman.
far outstripping the average North American woman.

The French wrote the book on the sensual women!
And that sir, can not be argued!

But the question was style,
I agree with Rich, on a national average,
the French and the Italians.
The Czech women are working hard at catching up on lost ground.


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## classyrik (Feb 22, 2005)

If a woman is beautiful, it matters not whether she has hairy armpits or, for that matter, hair on her legs (okay, not toooo thick on the legs) or lots of hair in more private quarters. In other words, if it grows on a woman, it's wonderful and perfect. Period. American women are (stereotypically-speaking) way too hung up on tweezing out every last hair -- at least for my taste. And the problem is getting worse. That's just one lady-loving man's view *

* Note: The viewpoints expressed in my post do not necessarily reflect the view of the author -- but you can safely bet that they probably do.

Cheers,
CLASS

"A class act doesn't have to act classy" -- Ridley


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## Aileron (Oct 15, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> Tintin wrote:
> 
> ...


Bravo!

Aileron
NYC


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## yndy (Oct 31, 2005)

european tends to be formal... (in my poit of view)
i just got one question, does this has to do with their norms or anythin like it??? or it is affected by their soceity??? am i makin any sense???


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## Horace (Jan 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by crazyquik_
> 
> Warning - cultural stereotyping ahead.
> 
> ...


My observation: while there are some refreshing exceptions in the Anglo-American species, the European woman excells at style.


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## Horace (Jan 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Roy_h_
> 
> I don't think the women in my country have a lot of style. There are plenty of beautiful women though, but often they have no clue on how to dress or behave themselves.


I think those Dutch women are often incredibly beautiful.


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## Roy_h (May 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Horace_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


May be I'm just spoiled then  The thing is, while there certainly are a lot of beautiful women here, they often don't know how to carry themselves or dress properly.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Roy_h_
> 
> they often don't know how to carry themselves or dress properly.


Clearly Audrey Hepburn's ghost needs to come back to haunt them [8D]


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## Murrah (Mar 28, 2005)

French news-babe Melissa Theuriau makes France the hands-down winner in this debate.


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## ChubbyTiger (Mar 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by classyrik_
> 
> If a woman is beautiful, it matters not whether she has hairy armpits or, for that matter, hair on her legs (okay, not toooo thick on the legs) or lots of hair in more private quarters. In other words, if it grows on a woman, it's wonderful and perfect. Period. American women are (stereotypically-speaking) way too hung up on tweezing out every last hair -- at least for my taste. And the problem is getting worse. That's just one lady-loving man's view *
> 
> ...


Yes.


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Roy_h_
> 
> I don't think the women in my country have a lot of style. There are plenty of beautiful women though, but often they have no clue on how to dress or behave themselves.


Don't know how to behave themselves? That's good, isn't it? 

Groetjes


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

The hairy armpit is one of the oldest and most recycled cliches about European, particularly, Latin women. It simply is not true. If consider you America minus NYC then European women would win hands down. But that is saying alot, so NYC really helps to keep the female style race close.


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

Not European women, dear fellow, Canadian, and to be specific Montreal girls/ladies/women. Fabulous style, and charm. Unbelievable. Love that city, just walking down the street you see the most sylish, eye catching, eye contact meeting women in the world. Europe, an hour away from NYC. Love it.

Joe


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Murrah_
> 
> French news-babe Melissa Theuriau makes France the hands-down winner in this debate.


Here's a video link:

Cute. She's all right, though. For me, it's an acquired taste. I mean her narrow, pointed chin area. She looks better in ponytail. I prefer her natural/off-screen outfit.

For me, Hepburn wins hands down. Classic, elegant, and way above the common, albeit a bit on the skinny side for my taste.

In any case, the women that you see on screen are generally not the most beautiful ones. They are 7s and 8s in real life. The most attractive ones never need to work in Hollywood. 
The Gentle Cheetah


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Here's a quartet of European women. Four princesses from the Dutch royal family. I can't choose.


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> Here's a quartet of European women. Four princesses from the Dutch royal family. I can't choose.


Doc, same problem here. Very attractive and self-possessed. Thanks for the pic. They look real.

The Gentle Cheetah


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## ice (Sep 2, 2005)

One difference between Europeans and North Americans that tends to skew perceptions: Europeans tend to dress up when they travel, while North Americans tend to dress down. So Swedish tourists in Washington, for example, might be dressed quite smartly while US tourists in Rome will be wearing sweatshirts and white sneakers. This adds to the perception that Europeans are better dressed than North Americans, especially for people that don't travel and only see the tourists.

I find that Europeans will have much less clothes than North Americans, probably because North Americans generally have more money and bigger houses. To look good a European might have to focus on a fewer more expensive pieces, while the North American can spread the money around and have a lot of different looks. Again, that isn't apparent unless you live in a place for a while.

That tends to be true even in North America between city and suburban dwellers. I have seen people on this forum post pictures of their 100+ shoe collection or 12 different peacoats, while there are members who live in Manhattan who don't even have a closet. You can still be stylish with a small wardrobe, but inevitably you won't have the same volume of stylish clothes.

I will say that North Americans dress down more often than Europeans do. Does that mean they are less stylish? I suppose, although one could argue either way. 

I have also noticed that American style is being embraced more and more in Europe. In fact I am a little smug about that. I remember backpacking in Europe when I was a student, with my sneakers, faded Levis, worn tshirts, and pullovers. Some Europeans looked down on me a bit for my casual appearance, and I could tell they felt that I was not well dressed, although no one really expects a student backpacker to be fashionable. Well, on my last trip to Europe in 2004, what was everyone wearing? Stylized sneakers, artificially faded jeans, pre-worn tshirts, and designer pullovers! The North American student's wardrobe had been carefully copied by European designers, repackaged, and sold in their stores as high fashion, right down to the names of fictional colleges stenciled on their sweatshirts! Amazingly, some Europeans were still smug about it, as if their jeans and tshirts were somehow more stylish than the original American ones, or as if they had invented it and we were somehow copying them...

Oh well, I am not a student any more and I do not dress like one. 

So if being stylish means embracing a stylized student wardrobe, then I would say that North American women are more stylish because they wear it more naturally and get it just right.

If it involves elegant, structured clothes and tailored designer fashions, then I think European women are more comfortable with that sort of wardrobe and usually pull it off better.

One difference I have noticed in the past few decades, is that European women have gained a lot of weight. North American women have gained weight as well, but they have been battling weight problems for longer and are getting much better at it, especially in the cities. Honestly, I think you might see less fat women in New York and Toronto than in London and Paris. You couldn't say that in the 1980s. Of course fat people can be just as stylish as normal weight people, but you have to adapt your wardrobe to your size and I think North Americans have had more time to do that and do it better, with more fashionable stores that cater to larger sizes. I think Europeans are waking up to fat twenty years after Americans.

I know a lot of Americans will be surprised at my weight observations, because the media has trained them to believe they are the fattest people in the world. I think that is largely because an industry has developed around weight and fitness that is worth tens of billions of dollars each year. Diet food companies and gyms work hard to send out the message that Americans are fat and need to do something about it, in order to sell their product. Mainly this is good because it makes consumers want to be healthier, but it has also created misconceptions about weight.

Anyway I have gotten badly off track here. Weight has nothing to do with style. North American women are stylish. So are European women. I love them all!


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by GentleCheetah_
> 
> In any case, the women that you see on screen are generally not the most beautiful ones. They are 7s and 8s in real life.


First, I must say that I'm neither a Stern nor a Trump fan, but I did hear them touch on this subject during a past radio broadcast(I was in a cab and the driver had it on). Stern was grilling Trump on who Trump thought were the most beautiful women he'd ever met. Trump said that while he'd pretty much met them all, there were no 10's, no 9's and just a few 8's in the celebrity category. He said that the real beauties were everyday women with everyday jobs. I've seen or met my share of celeb chicks and I concur with Trump. He also mentioned another thing that I've also observed , that actresses have a tendency to be very short, like 5 ft. tall.

I remember meeting Michele Pheiffer and I was stunned, she was tiny and her face was rather plain and unremarkable. I mentioned it later to the friend (who is in the movie biz) who introduced us and he agreed, saying that she was legendary as being one of the most photogenic actors of all time, but unimpressive in person.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Tomasso wrote:
one of the most photogenic actors of all time, but unimpressive in person.

~~~

I agree fully, I shoot a lot of "stars" and am generally unimpressed, physically and socially speaking, but most do photograph well in the end.

One exception was Shania Twain, very nice, very beautiful raw (no make up) and a very sweet woman. Again, you are right on the money, very short!


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Doc,

You can't choose?

Let's split it down the middle, 
I'll take the one on each end and you can have the two in the middle and the French presenter!
Am I not a true gentleman?


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by zegnamtl_
> 
> Doc,
> 
> ...


Ho ho ho, indeed, I was looking at the bookends myself, but I will be courteous and take the middle ones!

DD


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## pinchi22 (Sep 30, 2004)

Having spent half of my life observing the "fair" sex on each side of the pond, IÂ´d say that European women are definitely more stylish. Yes, IÂ´m generalizing, but European women feel more comfortable dressing up (even if that doesnÂ´t mean being more formal). They dress in order to stand out, rather than to blend in. IÂ´ve yet to hear one say she felt degraded by wearing high heels or other symbols of the feminine mystique.

A special note about Spain (where I happen to live). Like architecture, cuisine and more, there is no middle ground in this country. Outsiders always refer to the conservative Franco past, but that is ancient history to practically anyone who doesnÂ´t live in a retirement home. Most of the women I work with, at a HQ of a large bank, wear jeans to work if they feel like it. These days, they really like to flaunt their looks.

The European women I see have, like US women, gone casual. But, theyÂ´ve done it via the 3rd Way: wearing comfortable shoes, but that Hogan type rather than ones designed for the gym. Or t-shirts, but not ones with college logos on them. 

My (Spanish) wife, who used to look forward to buying clothing in the US, now goes to Zara and saves the US for flannel PJs.


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> Here's a quartet of European women. Four princesses from the Dutch royal family. I can't choose.


 No great surprise. The Netherlands has more good-looking women per capita than any other country I know. Followed at some distance by Venezuela and Eritrea.


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## Murrah (Mar 28, 2005)

> quote:Cute. She's all right, though. For me, it's an acquired taste. I mean her narrow, pointed chin area. She looks better in ponytail. I prefer her natural/off-screen outfit.
> 
> For me, Hepburn wins hands down. Classic, elegant, and way above the common, albeit a bit on the skinny side for my taste.


Damn, Cheetah, you have some high standards. [:0]


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