# Rethinking recrafting Allen Edmonds



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I just dropped off a pair of AEs at the store to be sent out for recrafting and was surprised by the price, which has increased since last I did this. The economic argument is becoming more difficult to make.

I know the local cobbler is willing to resole my shoes for much less, although I've never gotten a clear answer regarding precisely how they resole them. Does a Goodyear welted shoe have to be restitched (I presume that's the point)? Do cobblers to this? Can it be done without a Goodyear welting machine?

Have any of you had good experiences getting your AEs and other welted shoes done by cobblers?


----------



## barneco (Mar 4, 2014)

I have not had any of my AEs resoled by a non-AE cobbler, so I suppose that makes this input worthless but I offer it nonetheless. The recrafting service is more than a local cobbler would charge for a resole, but you receive a little more value for it as well. The uppers, while not fully rebuilt, are refinished and the welting is completely redone along with new cork under the insoles. I believe they're even fitted onto the original lasts while this process is being done, which can only help to improve the overall shape. I think comparing this process to a local resole is apples-to-oranges.

The prevailing strategy I've seen among those I know is to stagger a full recraft every second or third resole done locally.


----------



## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

You can watch this short video of how my cobbler did a sole (1/2 sole actually) and heel replacement on a pair of AE's (complete with cool soundtrack).


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

barneco said:


> I have not had any of my AEs resoled by a non-AE cobbler, so I suppose that makes this input worthless but I offer it nonetheless. The recrafting service is more than a local cobbler would charge for a resole, but you receive a little more value for it as well. The uppers, while not fully rebuilt, are refinished and the welting is completely redone along with new cork under the insoles. I believe they're even fitted onto the original lasts while this process is being done, which can only help to improve the overall shape. I think comparing this process to a local resole is apples-to-oranges.


To my understanding, a GY-welt shoe needs to be put on the original last in order to have the welting redone.


----------



## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

bNelson is a bit less expensive and does excellent work. Take a look at eBay. I found NIB Stockbridges in my size (8.5EEE) for less than the cost of having my old ones recrafted.


----------



## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I went the re-crafting route a couple of times and they, admittedly, came out beautiful. Unfortunately, it is cost prohibitive (and getting worse). Now, I wouldn't think of paying that much money to revitalize a pair of shoes.


----------



## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

cdavant said:


> bNelson is a bit less expensive and does excellent work. Take a look at eBay. I found NIB Stockbridges in my size (8.5EEE) for less than the cost of having my old ones recrafted.


I have contemplated all this before and it seems with the AE and Alden devotees that they/we have an affinity for the "heritage" brand of these 2 great companies and they know and play on that, recrafting seems to fit into this.

The last time I was in Port Washington, they gave me a hard back bound book that is handsome and entitled 90 men in 90 years or something to that effect. That book must have cost a mint to print, but, it is a good investment because it reinforces their brand and marketing of it. I tell you how much I thought of that book, I placed it on my bookshelf next to all my other books that get noticed more than all the others, why? Because they have hooked me on this heritage brand stuff as well, and that is a good thing!

I know that they re-cork the footbeds, which, 9 out of 10 cobblers cannot/will not do. And relast the shoes as well.

You can find many of the AE models so deeply discounted that it does not make sense to have them recrafted.

However, I know that I will certainly be having AE and Alden recraft my cordovans when that time comes. Those are a little different story.


----------



## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> You can watch this short video of how my cobbler did a sole (1/2 sole actually) and heel replacement on a pair of AE's (complete with cool soundtrack).


That was rather barbaric.


----------



## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

zzdocxx said:


> That was rather barbarian.
> 
> View attachment 11197


Yeah... he has anger issues. lol


----------



## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

Come to think of it, I have heard that referred to as "angry white guy music", lol.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

tocqueville said:


> I just dropped off a pair of AEs at the store to be sent out for recrafting and was surprised by the price, which has increased since last I did this. The economic argument is becoming more difficult to make.
> 
> I know the local cobbler is willing to resole my shoes for much less, although I've never gotten a clear answer regarding precisely how they resole them. Does a Goodyear welted shoe have to be restitched (I presume that's the point)? Do cobblers to this? Can it be done without a Goodyear welting machine?
> 
> Have any of you had good experiences getting your AEs and other welted shoes done by cobblers?


I believe you need a Goodyear welting machine to resole Goodyear welted shoes. I wouldn't trust a local cobbler to do the work. And I'd avoid 1/2 soles like the plague. The bane of my boyhood until I learned to insist on full soles. 1/2 soles -

1. Look bad.
2. Are less comfortable.
3. Often separate and are of short duration.
4. Allow more water to seep into the shoes.

I would be confident allowing either AE or B. Nelson to do the work. Neither are cheap. My feeling is that if you can buy it new, cheaper, do so, unless you desire to keep that particular pair of shoes.


----------



## tigerpac (Jan 23, 2014)

Be wary of re-crafting cordovans in the lighter 'rare' colors, Alden and AE have both been charged with over-dying as part of the 'restoration' changing the color completely!



Watchman said:


> I have contemplated all this before and it seems with the AE and Alden devotees that they/we have an affinity for the "heritage" brand of these 2 great companies and they know and play on that, recrafting seems to fit into this.
> 
> The last time I was in Port Washington, they gave me a hard back bound book that is handsome and entitled 90 men in 90 years or something to that effect. That book must have cost a mint to print, but, it is a good investment because it reinforces their brand and marketing of it. I tell you how much I thought of that book, I placed it on my bookshelf next to all my other books that get noticed more than all the others, why? Because they have hooked me on this heritage brand stuff as well, and that is a good thing!
> 
> ...


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Call me a naive consumer but I would rest easier knowing that the work was done by the manufacturer. It's the same reason I take my car to the dealer for servicing. 

Maybe I'm a sucker.


----------



## GatorFL (May 13, 2013)

Like others, I kind of think recrafting has become cost prohibitive. I've recrafted a couple of AE shoes and while I was happy with the outcome for not much more $ I could have had a new pair of shoes.

On the other hand I think they put the recrafting on $99 special a couple times a year.


----------



## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

tigerpac said:


> Be wary of re-crafting cordovans in the lighter 'rare' colors, Alden and AE have both been charged with over-dying as part of the 'restoration' changing the color completely!


Thanks for the heads up, this is good to know. I read somewhere that you can now ask them to not re-dye the uppers as to not ruin the patina, is that true?

Please advise.

If they re-dye the shoe, I will send them to B. Nelson instead. Thanks!


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I realize that having AE recraft the shoes involves more than simply a resole. And yes, I've been very happy with the results. But surely there's a cheaper yet still acceptable option for a full sole. Or?


----------



## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

So how much does recrafting cost these days? With AE first line shoes perpetually on sale together with an abundant supply of "seconds", I expect that the value equation has tipped away from the recrafting service.

I would not trust this job to a local cobbler - particularly one that can't or won't give you a straigth answer on the method of re-soling.

I would not hesitate, however, to send them to B. Nelson/


----------



## tigerpac (Jan 23, 2014)

I don't remember reading much about asking them not to re-dye, I'd just call them and ask when the time came. In general I like the idea of sending them back to the mothership for the rebuild but have heard stories of whiskey coming back as ravello etc etc.



Watchman said:


> Thanks for the heads up, this is good to know. I read somewhere that you can now ask them to not re-dye the uppers as to not ruin the patina, is that true?
> 
> Please advise.
> 
> If they re-dye the shoe, I will send them to B. Nelson instead. Thanks!


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

The standard package is now $125.

I can almost always find new shoes for $200.

The cost of the recrafting also makes me more reluctant to buy used shoes, which I have done in the past with good results, although that said I've never purchased a used shoe with any real wear on the sole.



RogerP said:


> So how much does recrafting cost these days? With AE first line shoes perpetually on sale together with an abundant supply of "seconds", I expect that the value equation has tipped away from the recrafting service.
> 
> I would not trust this job to a local cobbler - particularly one that can't or won't give you a straigth answer on the method of re-soling.
> 
> I would not hesitate, however, to send them to B. Nelson/


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I just looked. B Nelson will do a resole/corking only for $90, and they charge another $25 for reconditioning the upper.

I should add that one advantage of AE is that I don't pay shipping costs because I drop the shoes off at the store. With B. Nelson, I'd have to pay for that.


----------



## kaehlin (Mar 29, 2014)

It seems to me that for those who choose recrafting, there may be more to that decision than hard dollars and cents. A pair of shoes which have been worn for some time, perhaps to important life events such as weddings / graduations / funerals / professional milestones, may have sentimental or even "heirloom" value. I agree that it's hard to justify recrafting a pair of $200 shoes for $125, if it's a purely financial /ROI decision.


----------



## tigerpac (Jan 23, 2014)

I believe B. Nelson gives you a shipping label so you don't have to pay shipping

https://www.bnelsonshoes.com/images/BNelsonPriorityPost.jpg


----------



## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> The standard package is now $125.
> 
> I can almost always find new shoes for $200.
> 
> The cost of the recrafting also makes me more reluctant to buy used shoes, which I have done in the past with good results, although that said I've never purchased a used shoe with any real wear on the sole.


Seems like the best value compromise would be to get them re-soled only and put some elbow grease into re-conditioning the uppers yourself.


----------



## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

tigerpac said:


> I believe B. Nelson gives you a shipping label so you don't have to pay shipping
> 
> https://www.bnelsonshoes.com/images/BNelsonPriorityPost.jpg


It's settled. That's what I'll do next time. Besides, getting to the AE store is rather difficult given that I can only do so during working hours. I usually have to wait until I have some business to conduct in that neighborhood.


----------



## ilikeyourstyle (Apr 24, 2007)

RogerP said:


> So how much does recrafting cost these days?


I asked a few well established Toronto cobblers, and they quoted prices in the C$120-C$140 range. AE charges Canadians U$140 for their regular recrafting service, plus there are shipping costs involved.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

tocqueville said:


> It's settled. That's what I'll do next time. Besides, getting to the AE store is rather difficult given that I can only do so during working hours. I usually have to wait until I have some business to conduct in that neighborhood.


I've not used either service, but members here who have used both, have reported that they found the work done by B. Nelson a little better than even AE.


----------



## frosejr (Mar 27, 2010)

barneco said:


> The prevailing strategy I've seen among those I know is to stagger a full recraft every second or third resole done locally.


I wonder how they are able to get that done? All of AE's recrafting materials say they don't recraft shoes that have been worked on by another cobbler.


----------



## espressocycle (Apr 14, 2014)

The price is $125. Local cobblers here want $90-$100, so I guess for the extra $30 you get a little extra TLC and attention to the shoes and convenience of just dropping them in the mail and having them delivered. It's not a great deal, but it's not a ripoff either. And of course if you do use another cobbler and he sticks a nail in one, they won't touch them.


----------



## wmm2 (Aug 18, 2013)

frosejr said:


> I wonder how they are able to get that done? All of AE's recrafting materials say they don't recraft shoes that have been worked on by another cobbler.


Where did you see such a thing (other than repeated here without proof)?

The only thing I've seen from AE on the topic says "in some cases, ... prior work by other cobblers may prevent us..."


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^On three different occasions AE has rejected shoes that I have sent in for recrafting. In each instance, I had had a local cobbler resole the shoes (one half sole and two complete resoles). However, AE does not seem to have a problem recrafting shoes on which I have had local cobblers replace heels and/or toplifts.


----------



## David00 (Mar 2, 2014)

Will they recraft seconds?

And recently I have had some toe plates put on them, since I seem to be wearing the toe out, which takes 3 nails, will this cause them to reject them for recrafting?


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^AE has recrafted several pair of seconds that I have purchased over the years. I cannot remember ever sending in a pair with toe taps for recrafting, but given the conditions David00 describes, I suspect that they would.


----------



## Travel57 (Apr 23, 2014)

Saw this thread and am looking at used AEs more and more. I have found a few pairs on eBay which for the price plus recrafting, could be brand new. Will AE recraft shoes that aren't yours/ bought used? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Travel57 said:


> Saw this thread and am looking at used AEs more and more. I have found a few pairs on eBay which for the price plus recrafting, could be brand new. Will AE recraft shoes that aren't yours/ bought used?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't buy used shoes that need recrafting unless they are shell or, in some other way, rare and significant. Depending on model, you should not pay more than $75 for a pair of used AE's, and for that much you should be getting first-quality PA's with thick soles that won't need recrafting for at least five years. I suppose there may be a few AE models in calf that would be worth $100 used, but very few, and those would have to be in outstanding condition.

For my money, at $125 for recrafting (and it may be even more now) is worth it only for shell cordovan. Otherwise, I can buy mint condition used AE shoes for less money.


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Travel57 said:


> Saw this thread and am looking at used AEs more and more. I have found a few pairs on eBay which for the price plus recrafting, could be brand new. Will AE recraft shoes that aren't yours/ bought used?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes they will. But why would you want to when you can buy new closeouts, or seconds, for less then $175?


----------



## Travel57 (Apr 23, 2014)

@ above two posts- Saw a pair on eBay for $35 and they looked decent/good. Figured recrafting would only make them look new/better. 

As far as closeouts/seconds, I dont know much about where to find those. Where would I start? Thanks for the help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JPM (Feb 5, 2013)

I just had a pair of AE's recrafted y B. Nelson. I have had a pair done by AE in the past and they come out incredible. I am not sure what "reconditioning the uppers" involves, but it is great. In this instance I chose B Nelson because the shoes were very old and cracked and AE won't recraft shoes with cracks. I sent pics to the guys at B Nelson and they said they could handle it. The shoes have double soles and upon receipt by B Nelson I was advised that there would be an extra $40 charge. The total cost was 155. The work was done well and they look good. However, it feels like there is a lump in both shoe's footbed at the center. Long story short, B Nelson aint that cheap. Recently some forum member mentioned a place called NuShoe that does reconditioning. I don't know the results and have no experience.

I have had local cobblers resole my AEs. I always ask if they re-welt and replace the cork. I would never use anyone who wont. That service runs about $80 for soles, heels and cork footbed.


----------



## Fred G. Unn (Jul 12, 2011)

Travel57 said:


> As far as closeouts/seconds, I dont know much about where to find those. Where would I start? Thanks for the help!


https://www.shoebank.com/


----------



## Spex (Nov 25, 2012)

I will eventually (perhaps even next year) have my AE 5th Street boots resoled. They are currently $299 at the Shoebank. At that price even the AE resole would be worth it to me.



ilikeyourstyle said:


> I asked a few well established Toronto cobblers, and they quoted prices in the C$120-C$140 range. AE charges Canadians U$140 for their regular recrafting service, plus there are shipping costs involved.


I also asked one of the most well known Toronto cobblers, and I believe they quoted around $130, which is in line with what you report (and close to what it would cost for AE to do it). I didn't think to ask specific details, such as cork and such, but if I were to ever go back to them I certainly would. I also wonder about the "lasting" issue. With respect to B Nelson, do they have access to AE specific lasts? How do they perform their work?

I'm starting to think that the momsdoc approach of shoe hoarding may be the solution...no resoling ever required! :icon_cheers:


----------



## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Not unless I live to 120. I currently have 7 on order awaiting completion.:icon_cheers:


----------



## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Talking about recrafting vs buying a new pair of the same shoes, without discussing the beneifts of a familiar shoe - is missing a BIG part of the picture.

Leather breaks in over time - most often in my experience, in a positive way. The rough parts get smoother and creases even out and provide a shoe that is much more comfortable after 6 months or a year of use vs new out of the box. That alone would be reason to recraft vs starting over. Buying new and having to break in a new pair every time my soles wear out is just silly.

Second is the patina that develops over time with polish and edge dressing and dirt and discoloration all adding to the beauty of a well worn shoe. I cant think of any examples were brand new shoe is as attractive as one with some character developed over time.


----------



## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Its not about recrafting your own shoes v buying new. I am with you on that. It is buying used and recrafting v buying new.


----------



## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

arkirshner said:


> Its not about recrafting your own shoes v buying new. I am with you on that. It is buying used and recrafting v buying new.


Gotcha....sorry, missed that.

Used shoes.....no thanks. I dont need someone else's funk, nor to deal with their odd gate or whatever might have worn the shoes in odd ways.


----------



## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

$125 for recrafting seems eminently reasonable to me, though I'm not being critical of those who don't care to pay that much.


----------



## Ekphrastic (Oct 4, 2009)

Someone mentioned toe taps--B. Nelson does those, and, while they'd probably accept a pair of shoes that already had them, I don't believe that Allen Edmonds installs them. Might be something someone wants to have done. (Personally, I think they're slippery as all heck, but they do prevent wear, that's for sure.)


----------



## joeyzaza (Dec 9, 2005)

JPM said:


> ...... However, it feels like there is a lump in both shoe's footbed at the center. Long story short, B Nelson aint that cheap....


I had this same problem with a pair of Aldens re-soled by B Nelson. After a while, they broke in and the lump went away. The re-soling has held up well.

Also, this whole "re-crafting" is a relatively new made up term describing the process of getting new soles on old shoes. Maybe calling it "re-crafting" makes the customer feel good about shelling out $129 for new soles.

Using terms like "re-crafting" makes me think of people who get a dog from the dog pound and refer to them using the feel good term "rescue dog" and often throw in the word "adoption". It is a free dog from the pound.

Not being critical here. As a marketing guy, I actually love feel good terms.


----------



## WICaniac (Sep 25, 2013)

There's a little more to it than re-soling.


----------



## Travel57 (Apr 23, 2014)

joeyzaza said:


> I had this same problem with a pair of Aldens re-soled by B Nelson. After a while, they broke in and the lump went away. The re-soling has held up well.
> 
> Also, this whole "re-crafting" is a relatively new made up term describing the process of getting new soles on old shoes. Maybe calling it "re-crafting" makes the customer feel good about shelling out $129 for new soles.
> 
> ...


AE does quite a bit more than resole.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## irish95 (Sep 27, 2011)

For whatever its worth, I feel re-crafting a favorite pair of shoes is comparable to buying a classic old Victorian house and having it redone or having a brand new "copy" built. The old home just has "character". Obviously I am talking different monetary figures, but I think the analogy is appropriate. When I was right out of school on my first job, I would see older men with expensive shoes that had obviously been cared for over time and I thought it made a statement about them. I have had 3 pairs of shoes re-crafted and they came back looking new. As stated earlier. the shoes still had a "patina" to them. I know this a little off topic, but AE does a wonderful job on the shoes.


----------



## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Make it 8 pairs. I couldn't resist this Meermin MTO in plum museum calf.


----------



## irish95 (Sep 27, 2011)

That is really good looking. Great job.


----------



## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

I find this thread very interesting. My cobbler, who is very good I think, does a half sole when he puts new soles on the shoes and it still costs me around $90.00. He also always tells me that he "can't put the stitching back in the same holes" on open channel goodyear welted shoes because "the holes are worn" so the shoes when I get them back "will be tighter" than they were originally. Since I have only had 2 pairs of shoes re-crafted by him, a 2000-era pair of AE Sanfords and a pair of Lambertson-Truex's, both of which are derby's, and both came out OK, if a bit tighter, I am wary now, after reading this thread, about having my one pair of AE Fairfaxes re-soled. I think you guys have convinced me to send them back to AE. But, I would appreciate some words.


----------



## espressocycle (Apr 14, 2014)

$130 is a lot, but replacing the shoes will usually cost more and then you have to break them in again.


----------



## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

If AE's recrafting involves an entire new sole, then I think $130.00 is reasonable, especially when you are talking about a shoe as comfortable as the Fairfax.


----------



## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

I think the economics of recrafting can be reduced to a formula. In my experience, the cost of recrafting usually hovers around 1/3 of the cost of a new pair of the same shoe. If ever that equation gets out of whack, which it does from time to time, then there is a pricing inefficiency in either the cost of recrafting or the cost of the new shoes. The consumer then can make the choice of which is the better bargain at that time.

Judging by the recent price increases for new AEs across the board, I suspect that AE chose the current charge of $125 for recrafting to bring balance back to the recrafting equation.


----------



## peterc (Oct 25, 2007)

All of which sounds reasonable to me.


----------

