# Striped blazers?



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Bringing back the striped blazer, Princeton class of 1942.

And another one from the Princeton class of 1946, this time with matching boater.

And a third, Princeton class of 1967.

Also, a Yale one, class of 1966.

(All the images are from . Lots of interesting pictures in general if you're curious about that surreal outcropping of the Ivy League look known as the "reunion costume". :icon_smile_big

Do striped blazers have any role in the look besides drunken college reunions?  I know that there are a few fans of the seersucker odd sportscoat here...

Thoughts?

**Edit:* Also, an older thread mostly focusing on the British version of these is located here.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

katon said:


> Do striped blazers have any role in the look besides drunken college reunions?


Perhaps a barbershop quartet competition?

But in general, no.

How many of these threads are you going to post anyhow?


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Just trying to restart some conversation.  I've had a bit of down time lately, and I realized that there weren't many threads here on subjects I was interested in. So, I thought I'd try to change that. There's still a lot to talk about when it comes to this style, after all.


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## KennethB (Jul 29, 2009)

I can't imagine wearing one.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

A pinstripe blazer would look much better.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

That "pinstripe blazer" is not a blazer. It lacks metal buttons. It might be a pinstripe _sportcoat_, but if it is, it looks merely like an orphaned suit jacket. In some subcultures, an orphaned suit jacket might look better than a boldly striped blazer. In my world, everyone would wonder why I was wearing a suit jacket without its pants instead of a proper sportcoat or blazer.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

rojo said:


> That "pinstripe blazer" is not a blazer. It lacks metal buttons. It might be a pinstripe _sportcoat_, but if it is, it looks merely like an orphaned suit jacket. In some subcultures, an orphaned suit jacket might look better than a boldly striped blazer. In my world, everyone would wonder why I was wearing a suit jacket without its pants instead of a proper sportcoat or blazer.


I have to totally agree with everything rojo said. There's really no such thing as a pinstripe "blazer" and a striped odd jacket of anykind--except as a costume is a very bod idea.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

rojo said:


> That "pinstripe blazer" is not a blazer. It lacks metal buttons. It might be a pinstripe _sportcoat_, but if it is, it looks merely like an orphaned suit jacket. In some subcultures, an orphaned suit jacket might look better than a boldly striped blazer. In my world, everyone would wonder why I was wearing a suit jacket without its pants instead of a proper sportcoat or blazer.


Please lets not get into that again. Various dicitonary definitions of a blazer include "a light sporting jacket, originally bright coloured" and "a jacket, especially worn as part of a uniform, school, college, society" no mention of metal buttons. School blazers rarely, if ever, have metal buttons, I know mine didn't. And in British English for example, we do not use the term sports coat, most non-suit jackets are referred to as blazers. The club blazer on the other hand does have metal buttons.
Also, in my opinion, blazers, due to cut - especially the rounded front hem - do not look like suit jackets at all.
I looked into this last time it came up, and nowhere did I find in any books any requirement for metal buttons to entitle a jacket to be refered to as a blazer. A club blazer yes, but not a blazer. Originally called a blazer because of the bright "blazing" colour.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

A traditional blue blazer in America has distinguishing buttons (almost always metal, but other options exist such as mother of pearl), period. 

Not that anybody knows or cares outside these fora.

Now that sport coats are almost a rarity outside oldster circles, we might as well admit in daily life that a sport coat is a sport coat and they're all called "blazers" by almost everyone.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

rojo said:


> That "pinstripe blazer" is not a blazer. It lacks metal buttons. It might be a pinstripe _sportcoat_, but if it is, it looks merely like an orphaned suit jacket. In some subcultures, an orphaned suit jacket might look better than a boldly striped blazer. In my world, everyone would wonder why I was wearing a suit jacket without its pants instead of a proper sportcoat or blazer.





Saltydog said:


> I have to totally agree with everything rojo said. There's really no such thing as a pinstripe "blazer" and a striped odd jacket of anykind--except as a costume is a very bod idea.


What about pinstriped herringbone tweed?

Here's one by Brooks from the Thrift Exchange:

And another made by Deansgate for the Yale Co-op, also from the Thrift Exchange:










And a J. Press Donegal tweed, looking very much like the Brooks one:










Were these originally parts of suits? Sportscoats, but a momentary lapse of judgment on the part of the makers? An exception to the pinstripe rule? One of those items that the old makers bring out every so often only to have it die in the waters, like the denim sportscoat?  Something designed for contrary folks, like gold plated engine turned belt buckles and olive chinos? Something else?


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

I think what the OP has in mind is a boating jacket, not a sport coat with some pattern to it.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

marlinspike said:


> I think what the OP has in mind is a boating jacket, QUOTE]
> 
> Well that's exactly what I thought he was referring to. Isn't he?


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I'm a sucker for a uni or bengal stripe shirt, but a jacket would be hard to pull off.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> marlinspike said:
> 
> 
> > I think what the OP has in mind is a boating jacket, QUOTE]
> ...


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

katon said:


> What about pinstriped herringbone tweed?
> 
> Were these originally parts of suits? Sportscoats, but a momentary lapse of judgment on the part of the makers? An exception to the pinstripe rule? One of those items that the old makers bring out every so often only to have it die in the waters, like the denim sportscoat?  Something designed for contrary folks, like gold plated engine turned belt buckles and olive chinos? Something else?


Not originally part of suits - just regular sport coats. I like this kind of tweed though I've never thought of them as "pinstripe" tweeds. Maybe it's just sematics, but I've always considered them herringbone tweeds with a stripe. I think I have a couple of tweeds like this.

Not a boating blazer, but how about some vintage BB cabana wear? BB terry cloth stripe "blazer" with 3 patch pockets


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

rojo said:


> That "pinstripe blazer" is not a blazer. It lacks metal buttons. It might be a pinstripe _sportcoat_, but if it is, it looks merely like an orphaned suit jacket. In some subcultures, an orphaned suit jacket might look better than a boldly striped blazer. In my world, everyone would wonder why I was wearing a suit jacket without its pants instead of a proper sportcoat or blazer.


I'm afraid your definition and concept of a blazer is completely misguided and outdated, I wonder where you get such ideas . The pinstripe blazer is a very legitimate blazer, also a boating blazer is a blazer. Please refer to Earl of Ormonde's earlier post for further explanation.



Saltydog said:


> I have to totally agree with everything rojo said. There's really no such thing as a pinstripe "blazer" and a striped odd jacket of anykind--except as a costume is a very bod idea.


I have to totally disagree with both of you gentlemen. The jackets that the OP posted pictures of are called boating blazers ,and in appropriate colors they would be appropriate for boating as the name implies.



Joe Beamish said:


> A traditional blue blazer in America has distinguishing buttons (almost always metal, but other options exist such as mother of pearl), period.
> 
> Not that anybody knows or cares outside these fora.
> 
> Now that sport coats are almost a rarity outside oldster circles, we might as well admit in daily life that a sport coat is a sport coat and they're all called "blazers" by almost everyone.


The term blazer is not limited to the classic navy blazer with metal buttons period. Thinking outside the box but within reality is sartorially healthy.



Earl of Ormonde said:


> Please lets not get into that again. Various dicitonary definitions of a blazer include "a light sporting jacket, originally bright coloured" and "a jacket, especially worn as part of a uniform, school, college, society" no mention of metal buttons. School blazers rarely, if ever, have metal buttons, I know mine didn't. And in British English for example, we do not use the term sports coat, most non-suit jackets are referred to as blazers. The club blazer on the other hand does have metal buttons.
> Also, in my opinion, blazers, due to cut - especially the rounded front hem - do not look like suit jackets at all.
> I looked into this last time it came up, and nowhere did I find in any books any requirement for metal buttons to entitle a jacket to be refered to as a blazer. A club blazer yes, but not a blazer. Originally called a blazer because of the bright "blazing" colour.


A wonderful post with great reasoning. I congratulate you sir on your vast sartorial knowledge. :aportnoy:


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

For the Earl and Camorristi

What would you call this? Is it a blazer because of the bright colors? A blazer because of the open quarters? Apparently, the Earl hasn't ever seen a suit with open quarters, but would a suit jacket with open quarters be called a "blazer suit"?


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Cardinals5 said:


> For the Earl and Camorristi
> 
> What would you call this? Is it a blazer because of the bright colors? A blazer because of the open quarters? Apparently, the Earl hasn't ever seen a suit with open quarters, but would a suit jacket with open quarters be called a "blazer suit"?


I must be missing something here, what are you implying?! I was talking about pinstripe blazers, and metal buttons.The jacket in your picture would be known as a tartan, plaid, or madras sport coat and if it has matching pants it would be called a suit jacket. I'm not criticizing your post, but it's completely irrelevant.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

camorristi said:


> I must be missing something here, what are you implying?! I was talking about pinstripe blazers, and metal buttons.The jacket in your picture would be known as a tartan, plaid, or madras sport coat and if it has matching pants it would be called a suit jacket. I'm not criticizing your post, but it's completely irrelevant.


I was just attempting to understand your definition of a "blazer". You appear to agree with the Earl of Ormonde that a blazer doesn't need metal buttons, can be more than one color, and is a "light sporting jacket, originally brightly colored." The Earl also states "And in British English for example, we do not use the term sports coat, most non-suit jackets are referred to as blazers." If that's the definition of a "blazer" then it would appear the jacket I posted is a "blazer" according to the Earl's definition to which I thought you were agreeing since you wrote "A wonderful post with great reasoning. I congratulate you sir on your vast sartorial knowledge."


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Cardinals5 said:


> I was just attempting to understand your definition of a "blazer". You appear to agree with the Earl of Ormonde that a blazer doesn't need metal buttons, can be more than one color, and is a "light sporting jacket, originally brightly colored." The Earl also states "And in British English for example, we do not use the term sports coat, most non-suit jackets are referred to as blazers." If that's the definition of a "blazer" then it would appear the jacket I posted is a "blazer" according to the Earl's definition to which I thought you were agreeing since you wrote "A wonderful post with great reasoning. I congratulate you sir on your vast sartorial knowledge."


I do support the Earl's definition because it is a proper and legitimate definition which stands on solid grounds. And yes, the jacket you posted a picture of could be called a blazer. A blazer is a sub-type of sport coats.

From https://dictionary.reference.com:
 *blaz·er*

 /ˈbleɪzər/ Show Spelled[bley-zer]  
-noun 1. something that blazes or shines brightly. 

2. a sports jacket, usually a solid color or striped, sometimes having metal buttons and an insignia on the breast pocket, as one worn by a member of a club, school, or the like. 

3. a small cooking apparatus using as its source of heat a spirit lamp, hot coals, etc., used esp. for preparing food at the table or outdoors.

blazer 
"bright-colored jacket," 1880, British university slang, from blaze (1), in reference to the red flannel jackets worn by the Lady Margaret, St. John College, Cambridge boating club.

From www.m-w.com:

Main Entry: *blaz·er *Pronunciation: \ˈblā-zər\
Function: _noun_ 
Date: 15th century
*1* *:* one that blazes
*2* *:* a sports jacket often with notched collar and patch pockets


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## DixieTrad (Dec 9, 2006)

I believe this would qualify as a striped blazer, and a handsome one at that.

(Click photo to see larger image)


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

from the OED: "a light jacket of bright colour worn at cricket or other sports. 1880 _Times _19 June men in spotless flannels and club 'blazers.' 1885 _Durham Univ Jrnl _The latest novelty ... for the river is flannels, a blazer, and spats." My tailor, a highly exacting and opinionated guy of vast knowledge, calls every odd jacket a blazer.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> " My tailor, a highly exacting and opinionated guy of vast knowledge, calls every odd jacket a blazer.


Opinionated, reminds me of me !


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## noss (Apr 1, 2007)

"...And in British English for example, we do not use the term sports coat, most non-suit jackets are referred to as blazers..."



In the UK we certainly do use the term sportcoat, but not for a blazer...Sportscoats are usually winter coats, from tweed or other heavy cloths.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

I cannot speak for the UK, but in America we use the term sport coat or sport jacket to refer to non-suited jackets. I do not agree that the term "blazer" may describe only a solid navy jacket with metallic buttons. For instance, the origin of the term as well as its historic usage would certainly embrace striped jackets showing a club or school affiliation, and the embrace of solid-colored sport coats even without ornamental buttons would seem to be reasonable, at least under a relaxed standard. But I disfavor the use of the term as simply synonymous with sport coat, unless we Americans want to adjust our defininition of sport coat to conform to our Brit cousins. The term blazer has utility and is worth preserving as having a distinctive meaning. The OP's jacket, even if an orphaned suit coat, certainly can be worn as a sport coat (whether it is a good look or not is a topic for another thread I suppose), but calling it a blazer stretches the word beyond its breaking point in my opinion.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I quite agree.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Mike Petrik said:


> I cannot speak for the UK, but in America we use the term sport coat or sport jacket to refer to non-suited jackets. I do not think that the term "blazer" may describe only a solid navy jacket with metallic buttons. For instance, the origin of the term as well as its historic usage would certainly embrace striped jackets showing a club or school affiliation, and the embrace of solid-colored sport coats even without ornamental buttons would seem to be reasonable, at least under a relaxed standard. But I disfavor the use of the term as simply synonymous with sport coat, unless we Americans want to adjust our defininition of sport coat to conform to our Brit cousins. The term blazer has utility and is worth preserving as having a distinctive meaning. The OP's jacket, even if an orphaned suit coat, certainly can be worn as a sport coat (whether it is a good look or not is a topic for another thread I suppose), but calling it a blazer stretches the word beyond its breaking point in my opinion.


There's no such thing as a boating suit or a boating sport coat, it's called a boating blazer. We Americans need to understand my earlier posts in this thread, they couldn't get clearer then that :teacha:.



The Rambler said:


> I quite agree.


With?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

He agrees that calling what looks like an orphaned suit coat a "blazer" is pushing it, to which I agree as well.

I'll allow that boating blazers and navy/green/red blazers with metal or mother of pearl buttons can all rightly be called that.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

camorristi said:


> There's no such thing as a boating suit or a boating sport coat, it's called a boating blazer. We Americans need to understand my earlier posts in this thread, they couldn't get clearer then that :teacha:.


Fair enough. In the past I have offered the following definition of "blazer":

"Blazer: A sport coat, especially but not necessarily double-breasted, that (i) displays through choice of colors, breast patches, patterns, buttons, or any combination of such indicia an institutional or organizational affiliation or (ii) displays any combination of such indicia in a manner that resembles or is similar to that which traditionally denotes an institutional or organizational affiliation, including a coat that is solid in color, especially navy, particularly if it has metallic, enamel or other ornamental buttons."

I believe that this definition embraces boating blazers given their boat club origin. I do not think it embraces the pinstriped jacket that you originally posted, and should not in my view. Word definitions evolve, and it may be that eventually the term blazer will come to mean any odd sport coat. I think that would be unfortunate, but then again I eschew the once non-standard "irregardless" irrespecitive of its unfortunate increasing acceptance.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I like that definition, Mike, particularly the "indicia" part (hmm, I might have said that before), however "irregardless," as a double negative will never become standard, however frequently used. Most famously used by Ralph Kramden:

Quizmaster: Tell us Mr Kramden, are you going to risk all and try the $64000 question? Have you discussed it with your wife?

RK: Yes I have, and I'm trying it irregardless. [paraphrased; of couse he misses it]


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

The Rambler said:


> I like that definition, Mike, particularly the "indicia" part (hmm, I might have said that before), however "irregardless," as a double negative will never become standard, however frequently used. Most famously used by Ralph Kramden:
> 
> Quizmaster: Tell us Mr Kramden, are you going to risk all and try the $64000 question? Have you discussed it with your wife?
> 
> RK: Yes I have, and I'm trying it irregardless. [paraphrased; of couse he misses it]


Thanks TR. I hope you are right about "irregardless." It should not stand the test of time -- unlike "The Honeymooners."


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

The Word: "Blazer" is just one of them (a word, that is). Ideally, its definition should somehow combine the virtues of being both (a) understandable, _i.e._ having approximately the same meaning that many people think it has and (b) useful, _i.e._ not referring either to something that is so narrow as to be nonexistent or so broad that there are lots of other words that mean the same thing.

The Jacket: Loud striped jackets, that are cut and built like blazers (and maybe _are_ blazers) are, in the US, primarily a Princeton thing, I think. Various sorts of obnoxiously loud class-by-class uniforms are _de rigeur_ at Princeton reunions. Its partly a by-product of having the misfortune of having orange and black as your school colors. While similar statements are, apparently, not unknown elsewhere, when your school color is slightly-darker-than-navy blue or crimson, you can wear it simply by pulling out the blue blazer or red tie you already have.

In the UK, they (and maybe blazers generally) are a whole other thing, and apparently - like rep ties - have meanings there that make you out as a poseur if you accidentally give them sartorial expression.

There's something similar in the current J. Press spring line (on the website, under Jackets - Casual). They've called it a "Cricket Jacket." I guess this one is either the Columbia version of the Princeton-reunion jacket, or possibly something that would produce British eye-rolling as it amounts to a patently false statement that the wearer was the premier fast bowler at a specific elite boarding school.

The J. Press version appears to be an unconstructed casual jacket, and thus not really a "blazer," if the word is to retain much of its usual meaning. The same, I think, is true of many of the Princeton jackets.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Mike Petrik said:


> Fair enough. In the past I have offered the following definition of "blazer":
> 
> "Blazer: A sport coat, especially but not necessarily double-breasted, that (i) displays through choice of colors, breast patches, patterns, buttons, or any combination of such indicia an institutional or organizational affiliation or (ii) displays any combination of such indicia in a manner that resembles or is similar to that which traditionally denotes an institutional or organizational affiliation, including a coat that is solid in color, especially navy, particularly if it has metallic, enamel or other ornamental buttons."
> 
> I believe that this definition embraces boating blazers given their boat club origin. I do not think it embraces the pinstriped jacket that you originally posted, and should not in my view. Word definitions evolve, and it may be that eventually the term blazer will come to mean any odd sport coat. I think that would be unfortunate, but then again I eschew the once non-standard "irregardless" irrespecitive of its unfortunate increasing acceptance.


Sir, I'm afraid your views on pinstripe blazers are 90% wrong.



Starch said:


> The Word: "Blazer" is just one of them (a word, that is). Ideally, its definition should somehow combine the virtues of being both (a) understandable, _i.e._ having approximately the same meaning that many people think it has and (b) useful, _i.e._ not referring either to something that is so narrow as to be nonexistent or so broad that there are lots of other words that mean the same thing.
> 
> The Jacket: Loud striped jackets, that are cut and built like blazers (and maybe _are_ blazers) are, in the US, primarily a Princeton thing, I think. Various sorts of obnoxiously loud class-by-class uniforms are _de rigeur_ at Princeton reunions. Its partly a by-product of having the misfortune of having orange and black as your school colors. While similar statements are, apparently, not unknown elsewhere, when your school color is slightly-darker-than-navy blue or crimson, you can wear it simply by pulling out the blue blazer or red tie you already have.
> 
> ...


What's the conclusion of this post?


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

> So, here's the $64,000 question: Is the pinstripe blazer a blazer? what's the conclusion of this post


I'm sort of punting on the definition of "blazer," on the theory that words are just a means of expressing ideas, and it's the ideas that are more important, and not so much the words.

As a personal matter, if a group of people walked by - one of whom was wearing one of the orange-and-black Princeton reunion costumes in the original post - and someone said, "Hey, who's that guy?" I probably would _not_ say, "You mean the one in the orange-and-black blazer?" The word "blazer" just isn't the one I'd think of to describe it (more like "jacket," "costume" or "monstrosity").

On the other hand, if someone said, "Hey, who's that guy in the orange-and-black blazer?" I would know what he meant, and would answer ... assuming I both (a) knew who he was, and (b) didn't feel it necessary to disclaim that knowledge or conceal his identity (which isn't usually the case, but with people wearing jackets like that, maybe).

A Google search confirms that different sources refer to the Princeton attire variously as "class blazers" and "class jackets."

More examples:
https://www.princeton84.org/sites/PU84/folders/images/dsc00653.jpg
https://www.princeton84.org/sites/PU84/folders/images/dsc00656.jpg
https://farm1.static.flickr.com/200/440824860_ac6fff22cb.jpg

https://farm1.static.flickr.com/206/527283789_7f1eb73c90.jpg
https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1188/527190444_2215db3a34.jpg

I can't find a photo of it (without linking to someone's personal Facebook page, which seems inappropriate), but the most recent 25th-reunion version ('85) seems to be white, with a bunch of little drawings on it.

It becomes very difficult to call some of these "blazers" without expanding the word's meaning beyond all reason.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Mike Petrik said:


> "Blazer: ... displays through choice of colors ... an institutional or organizational affiliation...."
> * * *
> I do not think it embraces the pinstriped jacket that you originally posted, and should not in my view.


Ironically, you've quoted a definition that _exactly_ embraces the jackets in the top post. If those don't scream "Princeton!" at you, you're deaf (in a metaphoric sense).

*EDITED TO ADD:*

On looking at the thread and identifying the referrent of the "you" in the quotation, I now realize it refers to the jacket in Post #5, rather than the top post. I still see it as fitting the quoted definition, though: clearly it displays the indicia (colored stripes) "in a manner that resembles or is similar to that which traditionally denotes an institutional or organizational affiliation" ... that's the reason it appears in Post #5: it resembles, to the poster (and to me) the jackets in the first post. The only difference is that it's _more_ like the common "blue blazer" than the top-post jackets. If the fact something looks more like a blazer makes it not a blazer, we're entering difficult linguistic territory.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Starch said:


> Ironically, you've quoted a definition that _exactly_ embraces the jackets in the top post. If those don't scream "Princeton!" at you, you're deaf (in a metaphoric sense).
> 
> *EDITED TO ADD:*
> 
> On looking at the thread and identifying the referrent of the "you" in the quotation, I now realize it refers to the jacket in Post #5, rather than the top post. I still see it as fitting the quoted definition, though: clearly it displays the indicia (colored stripes) "in a manner that resembles or is similar to that which traditionally denotes an institutional or organizational affiliation" ... that's the reason it appears in Post #5: it resembles, to the poster (and to me) the jackets in the first post. The only difference is that it's _more_ like the common "blue blazer" than the top-post jackets. If the fact something looks more like a blazer makes it not a blazer, we're entering difficult linguistic territory.


Your assumption re Post #5 is correct, so no irony present. In fact I long ago crafted the definition precisely in order to respect the blazer's origin as club jackets. If you seriously believe that the orphaned pinstripe suit jacket in question is sufficiently similar to either a solid navy jacket or a club jacket that it can be called a blazer have at it. We just disagree. I suspect you just disagree with my definition, in which case you are free to proffer your own. Go ahead a make it synonyomous with sport coat if you wish; just don't expect most of the more experienced and knowledgable folks on this forum to agree with you. Or you can always just "Ask Andy."


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

For the sharp observer that I happen to be , I've noticed that most gentlemen on these fora are quite opinionated. I've made my points, and if the "more knowledgeable" and "more experienced" members choose to disagree with them, that is a completely understandable. Although, it won't change the facts of life that I've mentioned :teacha:.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

> Were these originally parts of suits? Sportscoats, but a momentary lapse of judgment on the part of the makers?


More or less off topic here, since I don't think there's much in the way of support for the notion that a tweed sportcoat is a "blazer."*

As to striped tweeds, in my ignorance, I'm probably failing to follow the post I'm quoting, as I'm under the impression that striped tweeds are something that men's clothiers have always offered, and still do.

For example:

The subtlety of the stripe varies with the fabric, its age, and lighting.
_____
*Just because, well ... just because it isn't. If you're constructing a definition of "blazer" that otherwise includes them, modify said definition by adding "unless it is tweed" at the end.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

noss said:


> "...And in British English for example, we do not use the term sports coat, most non-suit jackets are referred to as blazers..."
> 
> In the UK we certainly do use the term sportcoat, but not for a blazer...Sportscoats are usually winter coats, from tweed or other heavy cloths.


It was blazers that I was obviously referring to. Not coats as we know them. So the fact that the term sports coat is used in the UK for an actual type of coat is hardly relevant.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Cardinals5 said:


> For the Earl and Camorristi
> 
> What would you call this? Is it a blazer because of the bright colors? A blazer because of the open quarters? Apparently, the Earl hasn't ever seen a suit with open quarters, but would a suit jacket with open quarters be called a "blazer suit"?


Camorristi already answered, but I'll answer as well. I would call that a blazer. I have seen suits with open quarters, but not often, and it was about 30 years ago when they were still fashionable


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> and it was about 30 years ago when they were still fashionable


:icon_smile_big:


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Mike Petrik said:


> I suspect you just disagree with my definition, in which case you are free to proffer your own. Go ahead a make it synonyomous with sport coat if you wish...


I actually go the other way - so I suppose my critique was of the definition, by pointing out that it, itself, includes things you don't think it includes. Note that in my earlier post, I said I probably wouldn't call the Princeton reunion jackets "blazers" either.

One note, as a starting point: British English and American English are different languages, and have been since Noah Webster, at least. It's not unusual for a word to have a completely different meaning in each language, and quite common for words to have at least different shades of meaning. This should not bother people, and generally doesn't, with the exception of a persnickety minority of Brits, who apparently are emotional about it.

So: I'm talking about the definition of "blazer" in American English. If anyone wants to point out that my definition is plainly not correct in British English, go ahead. I already know that.

Also, while the etymology of words is interesting, and often useful in determing their meaning, it's not (so to speak) definitive. The current meaning of a word may be quite different from the meaning associated with its derivation.

To start with, consider what most obviously _is_ a "blazer:"
- A sportcoat.
- Made of wool: flannel or worsted.
- Solid navy blue.
- With brass buttons.
- Two variants: (i) single-breasted (2- or 3-button) with notch lapels and (ii) double-breasted, with peak or notch lapels.
- Otherwise traditionally styled, fit and finished.
- Sometimes with a crest or other emblem on the chest.
- Sometimes with a light-colored border.
- Without any other ornaments or accessories, whether stylistic or practical.

A "blazer" means either the above or something similar to it.

Not very precise, I suppose, but definitions often aren't.

If you want to to be scientific, I suppose you could say "blazer" means (a) the "obvious blazer" described above or (b) another item sufficiently similar to the obvious blazer that the statement of the adjectives and description necessary to convey to the hearer the information required for him to form a mental image of the item is not so burdensome that the use of a more general term (like "sport coat") is preferable.

You can call something other than an obvious blazer (including a madras sport coat, a striped tuxedo jacket or a piece of pie) a "blazer" if you want to - you won't get arrested or have bricks thrown at you - but the person you're talking to may not know what you're trying to say ... with the likelihood and extent of the misunderstanding approximately correlating to just how different from an obvious blazer the thing you're describing is.

If you look at, for example, the Brooks Brothers and J. Press web sites as source material for determining the reasonably traditional meaning, you'll find:
- J. Press applies the term only to navy blue jackets with brass buttons that (so far as I can tell) are obvious blazers.
- Brooks Brothers is the same, but also includes two dark colors similar to navy (black and dark green), as well as metal buttons that aren't brass.
- Both have numerous jackets that _almost_ fit the above (including striped ones), which they do not call blazers.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

I think I'll have to disagree with some of your points. I'll edit this post with more information soon.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Starch said:


> I actually go the other way - so I suppose my critique was of the definition, by pointing out that it, itself, includes things you don't think it includes. Note that in my earlier post, I said I probably wouldn't call the Princeton reunion jackets "blazers" either.
> 
> One note, as a starting point: British English and American English are different languages, and have been since Noah Webster, at least. It's not unusual for a word to have a completely different meaning in each language, and quite common for words to have at least different shades of meaning. This should not bother people, and generally doesn't, with the exception of a persnickety minority of Brits, who apparently are emotional about it.
> 
> ...


Starch,

We are in violent agreement, at least in part. Not every odd jacket or sport coat is a blazer. My definition was an attempt to incorporate both the definition you offer, which is the definition understood by most knowledgable people, as well as the meaning still understood by a smaller number of people who know and respect a somewhat more traditional usage grounded in the origin of the term. Given that alternative usage, I have no problem calling the Princeton reunion jackets blazers. Interestingly, I suspect the two usages are quite related, and indeed my definition suggested such a relationship. A term that originally described one club's particularly striking boating jacket gradually evolved to generally describe decorative uniform jackets associated with any institution. In the US many such institutions were clubs and schools where solid dark jackets were the uniform, typically decorated with distinctive badges, patches or buttons. Eventually all such solid jackets came to be called blazers, even if not associated with an institution, especially if they included distinctive badges, patches or buttons. While this last understanding is certainly most common I see no reason that its inclusion must be at the expense of the term's more traditional roots. You apparently disagree, presumably under the theory that the more traditional usage is now largely relegated to the UK and therefore the distinction is one of US versus UK usage. I disagree but not violently so. I do agree that the traditional usage is uncommon in the US (even if not absent) and therefore one can certainly argue against it on "descriptive" grounds.

As camorristi notes it has become increasingly common in some parts of the US to refer to any odd jacket as a blazer. While such usage has no more currency among those knowledgable about clothing than the use of "irregardless" has among those knowledgable about grammar, the meanings of words do evolve (as the history of "blazer" nicely demonstrates), and camorristi's usage may win the day eventually. After all we pretty much all say "I could care less" today "irregardless" of its technical inanity.

There will always be a tension between the descriptive and prescriptive functions of definitions. Some of us are just wired to be traditionalists (this is a trad forum) and give greater weight to tradition and certainty. Others are more rebellious and can be counted on to champion change with its attendant confusions. The former tend to favor prescriptive definitions (I plead guilty) whereas the latter favor the descriptive. In caorristi's world if all his 20-something friends use the term blazer to describe any odd jacket then that is now what the word means. It is a democratic view that awards no points for superior knowledge. In my experience people of this bent tend to find this approach useful in that they can avoid that pesky process of having to learn something.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Mike Petrik said:


> I have no problem calling the Princeton reunion jackets blazers. Interestingly, I suspect the two usages are quite related. What started out as a particular uniform boating jacket gradually evolved to generally describe uniform jackets associated with any institution. In the US many such institutions were clubs and schools where solid dark jackets were the uniform, often decorated with distinctive badges, patches or buttons. Eventually any such solid jackets became to be called blazers, especially if they included decorative badges, patches or buttons.


That sounds about right. Blazers starting much like the regimental repp tie as a British associational thing, with striped versions (like the Princeton jackets and the very interesting Argyle & Sutherland that DixieTrad posted) and "emblematic" (in a solid color with associational metal buttons and optional blazer badge). Just as a BB#1 repp stripe tie might still be called a "regimental", even though the only regiment it represents is that of Brooks Brothers fans, I imagine that a navy jacket from Brooks with Golden Fleece embossed brass buttons and optional Golden Fleece blazer badge (The full look, I think, only the Japanese could wear non self-consciously) would still be called a "blazer", even though it has no non-consumer associations whatsoever.  It's only a short leap from there to apply the term to any solid colored jacket with metal buttons. (Or any striped jacket, for that matter.) I suppose it's sort of the same question as when a "regimental" tie simply becomes a striped tie.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Starch said:


> - Brooks Brothers ... includes two dark colors similar to navy (black and dark green) ...


Just to note that in the past two days, Brooks Brothers has reconsidered, and now apparently believes blazers can only be blue or green.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Actually, from a British perspective, blazers began life as a uniform "uniform" jacket for schools, teams, clubs, off duty professionals to prevent people wearing all sorts of odd jackets when representing their team, school, club, workplace etc. Before British off duty soldiers and officers wore civvies they had off duty (walking out) uniforms not blazers. I'm not sure when the SOPs changed on that but I think it was as late as post-WWII. I remember the only time we were required to wear uniform travelling to and from station was during the Falklands War in 82, with full webbing and battle kit, in case of immediate mobilisation, as we were on 6 hour standby to a ship in Southmapton. It felt odd walking round London in full combat dress but it did open up for people to approach you and have a chat.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Actually, from a British perspective, blazers began life as a uniform "uniform" jacket for schools, teams, clubs, off duty professionals to prevent people wearing all sorts of odd jackets when representing their team, school, club, workplace etc. Before British off duty soldiers and officers wore civvies they had off duty (walking out) uniforms not blazers. I'm not sure when the SOPs changed on that but I think it was as late as post-WWII. I remember the only time we were required to wear uniform travelling to and from station was during the Falklands War in 82, with full webbing and battle kit, in case of immediate mobilisation, as we were on 6 hour standby to a ship in Southmapton. It felt odd walking round London in full combat dress but it did open up for people to approach you and have a chat.


I'm not sure what to say to all of that other than it is pretty clear that blazers did begin life in Britain, but in the early 19th century as the jackets of the Lady Margaret Boat Club. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blazer This is in part why I stand by my definition and accompanying explanation.


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## realbrineshrimp (Jun 28, 2010)

What does the Encyclopedia of Men's Clothing say about the blazer/sport coat/suit jacket debate? Will a consensus ever be reached and if so can we get a stickied thread with the answer?


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

So, does everyone agree that my definitions are right by today's standards? Any nay sayers left?


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

camorristi said:


> So, does everyone agree that my definitions are right by today's standards? Any nay sayers left?


What was your definition again?


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## maesepedro (May 27, 2009)

Those yalies look like mississippi prison inmates on a chain gang break.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Cardinals5 said:


> What was your definition again?


A sports jacket, usually a solid color or striped, sometimes having metal buttons and an insignia on the breast pocket, as one worn by a member of a club, school, or the like.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

camorristi said:


> A sports jacket, usually a solid color or striped, sometimes having metal buttons and an insignia on the breast pocket, as one worn by a member of a club, school, or the like.


Given the qualifiers "usually" and "sometimes," I could not discern from your definition whether any sports jacket would quailfy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportcoat

If the qualifying clauses are independent rather than subordinate such that your definition is better read as "a sports jacket as worn by a member of a club, school, or the like" then I have no serious quarrel with it assuming "as" signals an intention to include jackets that are "inspired by" club or school jackets.

I agree that a striped jacket can be a blazer (e.g., the Princeton reunion jackets), but I don't think a pinstriped jacket that is or resembles an orphaned suit coat can fairly qualify absent some type of more obvious institutional affiliation. I believe most forum members would agree with me on this. Both jackets with bold decorative striping ala Princeton as well as solid dark jackets with decorative badges or buttons have been widely used as club or institutional attire; this is just not so for pinstriped jackets of the type displayed in your original post. Just because the term "blazer" can (and in my view should) embrace some jackets withs stripes, does not mean any striped jacket can qualify.


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