# Sebago Loafers



## Mel (Dec 12, 2006)

Any thoughts on the merits of sebago loafers vs Bass. After Bass Weejuns went offshore,Sebagos seemed to be the only US loafer in that price range. Mine have worn as well as the Bass one of old. What is the story of current sebago loafers.


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## jeph (Feb 16, 2006)

I have been wearing Sebago Classic loafers for many years, but I have never owned a pair of Weejuns so I cannot compare. 

These days the production of the Sebago loafers has moved overseas to the Dominican Republic, and although it the change disappointed me, the quality seems unchanged. So far I only own one “Dominican” pair, but when I compare them to my older and well worn American made ones, they look and feel the same.

Jeph


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Several times I have been very close to buying a pair of Sebagos, and each time I balk when I see the heel which is a single block of rubber (on the un-lined "Classic" model). But the Sebago leathers do seem to be less "glossy" than the Bass, which is a good thing, and at least up here, getting the wide fittings is a lot easier with Sebago than with Bass. I certainly like the look of the Sebago penny loafers Patrick has posted previously, and the Sebago shoes come in brown colours, unlike Bass.


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## jeph (Feb 16, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> Several times I have been very close to buying a pair of Sebagos, and each time I balk when I see the heel which is a single block of rubber (on the un-lined "Classic" model).


The Sebago rubber heels suck. After not much wear they will need repair, but all my Sebagos Classic loafers have been like that.

Jeph


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

I switched to Sebago after experiencing quality control problems with American-made Weejuns back in the late 1980s. I had worn Weejuns through 16 years of school and into my first decade or so of working adulthood. Much as I liked them, I think 1986 was the last truly good year for Weejuns. 

In the years since, my Sebagos (Cayman and Classic) have never diappointed me. Yes, the Classics have those rubber "kangaroo" heels, and the Caymans look like clunkers next to the perfectly proportioned Weejuns. Cut open a pair of Caymans (like my greyhounds did back in 2002) and you'll see that Sebago took as many shortcuts in material and assembly as Bass ever did with the Weejuns. But no Weejun ever fit as well or aged so gracefully! 

My current pair, some 5-year-old Caymans, are out for new soles this week. Topside, they look as though they're just broken in, and they fit like, well, an old pair of shoes. . .


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

It's worth noting that the Sebago Cayman uses (at least used to use) full grain uppers and a split leather heel. Sebago Classic beefrolls and Bass Weejuns both use corrected grain, which is especially shiny on the Weejuns.

I have the Sebago Classic beefrolls from ca. 1999. They are made in USA, unlined, corrected grain. Corrected grain is nearly unpolishable when it comes to the deep scuffs that remove the coloring. They have the 100% rubber heel, about which I am not crazy. My feet must have shifted sizes, because these are too wide and long for my feet. The channels are not very deep so the stitching wore away pretty quickly.

The best quality Weejun lookalike is the AE Danbury. It is now out of production but it can be found at AE outlets, eBay, and various online retailers. These are full grain leather with a full leather lining. Made in USA. Regular AE sole/heel. I found my pair for $139 including shipping by inquiring at AE Cabazon. Cabazon went searching the country for them and found a pair of firsts in my size sitting in a Chicago warehouse. These shoes are usually ~$250, so I have been very happy with them. The Danburys are the precursors to the Camerons. I think the Danbury is a better Weejun impersonator because it has the same penny slot as the Weejun and lacks the wraparound vamp strap found on the Camerons. For me, the Danburys are the perfect shoe for those days when 986s seem like too much.

Here are the Danburys for $211: .


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## Kingsfield (Nov 15, 2006)

How about a pair of Alden flex welts? While not cheap, on a cost-per-wear basis they are probably a very good value. On sale, you can pick up a pair for less than $300.


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## Puffdaddy (Dec 21, 2006)

Kingsfield said:


> How about a pair of Alden flex welts? While not cheap, on a cost-per-wear basis they are probably a very good value. On sale, you can pick up a pair for less than $300.


Good call.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Flex Welts are excellent, and far more comfortable than Alden's main line shoes out of the box. However, Flex Welts look like Aldens, not like Weejuns. Although the 986 and the Weejun are both penny loafers, I would consider them two completely different shoes, appropriate for different occasions, and conveying different messages. The AE Danburys are probably the best quality Weejun-looking pennies one will find.

I think the primary difference between the Weejun and the Alden handsewns is that the Weejuns are true moccasins, with true moccasin construction. Aldens do not use moccasin construction. The moc stitching is purely decorative.


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## Kingsfield (Nov 15, 2006)

Q--Would you please help me to understand, “...appropriate for different occasions, and conveying different messages”?


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

I think I know what Qwerty means, but at my advanced age, it's fun to blithely ignore such conventions every now and then. I realize Alden 986s and Weejuns (or Sebago) play in different leagues. But I have worn (and still do wear) 986s and their Brooks brothers with 501s and Sebago Caymans with a medium grey sack suit. Also, refer to a previous post (American Trad Men (photos), last page) containing a picture of Howard Dean wearing a pair of Sebago Classics with what might be the bottom half of a grey suit - now there's one guy who put those kangaroo heels to work - they bounced him right into the Chairman's office of the DNC! 

My feelings about Sebago: Eeeeyyaaahhhh!!!!


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Kingsfield said:


> Q--Would you please help me to understand, "...appropriate for different occasions, and conveying different messages"?


What I mean is that I think that Alden handsewns (986 or similar-looking styles) can (almost?) be worn with suits. I would certainly wear them with charcoal pants, blue blazer, OCBD, and tie. However, I would not quite feel comfortable putting on a pair of Weejun/Sebagos with such ensembles. I know people do wear them that way, but I feel that Weejuns are closer to Topsiders than they are to semi-brogues. I feel as though Alden 986-style loafers, C&J Bostons, C&J Harvards, or shoes like the Polo Darlton penny are pretty close to tassels or flat strap loafers in formality, which are just a step away from semi-brogues.

I don't think I would pair 986s with white socks (or no socks), jeans, and a polo. In fact, I think Aldens need a real shirt up top, not a mere polo or t-shirt. (I think jeans or chinos are just fine with Aldens, however.) I would certainly wear Weejuns/Sebagos with a polo shirt or t-shirt.

I hope that clears up what I am thinking here. I am sure some will disagree, and certainly people (even Dean) wear moccasin-pennies with suits, but I would not.


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## Tenacious Tassel (Sep 11, 2006)

*Qwerty --*

we are in complete agreement on your thoughts. Nicely put.

I am always suprised at how many scoff at the idea of wearing a pair of shell cordovan loafers (tassel or penny especially) with a suit. I am quite fond of the look. The quality of the leather is more than adequate to bring them into suit outfit standards.

Very true on the Weejuns as well, their limit is probably in the trouser/sportcoat range. IMO, a nicely made Sameulsohn 3/2 sack would be disappointed to be paired with such a shoe...Now, an OCBD, McGeorge, and Bills is another thing altogether!


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

The only loafers I would wear with a suit would be tassel loafer in shell cordovan. IMHO tie shoes should be worn with a suit


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

mcarthur said:


> IMHO tie shoes should be worn with a suit


What are tie shoes?


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

qwerty said:


> What are tie shoes?


Qwerty-
Tie shoes are lace up dress shoes


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

mcarthur said:


> Qwerty-
> Tie shoes are lace up dress shoes


Thanks!


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## Vanderbilt (Apr 2, 2006)

qwerty said:


> The Danburys are the precursors to the Camerons. I think the Danbury is a better Weejun impersonator because it has the same penny slot as the Weejun and lacks the wraparound vamp strap found on the Camerons. For me, the Danburys are the perfect shoe for those days when 986s seem like too much.


I've been unable to locate the Camerons on AE's website. However, I did note that the AE Waldens look very similar to the Danburys. Any comment on the quality of the Waldens?

I'm finally taking the plunge into loafers after over a year of following this forum, and I'd like that first pair to be a good one. As a diehard laceup fan I've been resisting loafers with all my might, but now it's time to see what all the commotion is about. So far, I've loved every "trad" item I've tried - sack jackets, ocbds, madras, and boat shoes. Keep posting fellas - soon I'll be wearing altering all my trousers so that they're flood pants (god forbid)!


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

I have never seen the AE Waldens in person. What I do know is that they have been offered for a while, simultaneously with the now out of production Camerons and, before then, with the Danburys. For that reason, I wonder whether the construction quality on the Waldens is up to snuff relative to higher-priced AEs. In photos, the Waldens appear to me to be corrected grain leather, albeit I have been told before that AE does not use corrected grain in any of their shoes. If the Walden is corrected grain, then I see no reason to pay the premium over Sebago Classic beefrolls, Caymans, or Bass Weejuns. There is not any significant difference other than the country of manufacture (USA for the Waldens versus various places in Central or South America for the other shoes).

I also think that the Danbury is closer in appearance to Weejuns as it has the crescent penny slot rather than the { shaped slot of the Waldens/Camerons/Sebago beefrolls.

One more note: the vamp on Weejuns and on the Danbury is quite low for a non-Italian shoe, IMHO. I prefer higher vamps. The Walden definitely has a higher vamp than Weejuns and Danburys, and that is a victory the Waldens have over the Danbury. I don't know much about the vamp height on the Cameron.

AE Walden:

AE Danbury:

AE Cameron:
https://www.buyslippers.net/pro_detail.aspx?pro=true&pid=618&cid3=179&cid2=178&cid1=169&bid=217

Alden's moccasin-constructed penny:
https://www.aldenshop.com/DrawOneShoe.asp?CategoryID=74

The Weejun (Bass Leavitt) -- still can't find anything else with quite these vamp strap and penny slot widths:

Sebago Classic:
https://www.zappos.com/n/p/p/104670.html

Sebago Cayman II:

Cole Haan Pinch Penny:


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## Vanderbilt (Apr 2, 2006)

qwerty said:


> In photos, the Waldens appear to me to be corrected grain leather, albeit I have been told before that AE does not use corrected grain in any of their shoes. If the Walden is corrected grain, then I see no reason to pay the premium over Sebago Classic beefrolls, Caymans, or Bass Weejuns.


I'll be sure to ask a knowledgeable salesman if the Waldens are indeed corrected grain. I once bought a pair of corrected grain shoes - never again.

Your posts have been quite helpful - thank you Qwerty!


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Vanderbilt said:


> I'm finally taking the plunge into loafers after over a year of following this forum, and I'd like that first pair to be a good one. As a diehard laceup fan I've been resisting loafers with all my might, but now it's time to see what all the commotion is about.


Watch out for my rookie mistake, which was buying them in my lace-up size. Go down at least a half-size; otherwise you'll have a lot of leather flapping around.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Patrick06790 said:


> Watch out for my rookie mistake, which was buying them in my lace-up size. Go down at least a half-size; otherwise you'll have a lot of leather flapping around.


Some of us like our loafers to flop around, though. I wear exactly the same size in loafers as lace-ups.

SAS penny loafers are another option, and made in San Antonio. I bought a pair a couple of months ago, but they are too big so I will have to move them on. I am impressed by the very good construction, and the attention to orthopedics, however they still have that glossy leather that afflicts lower-end penny loafers.

DD


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## Plainsman (Jun 29, 2006)

I bought a pair of Sebago Cayman II's about 6 months ago and just sold them on eBay. I did this after getting a new pair of AE Waldens for $60. I really did not care for the Sebagos in look or comfort. (I thought they lacked both)

That being said, if you like the Sebagos you should wear them. I think most folks around here agree with that motto. They are a good price and mine did hold up to wear. 

I also checked out a pair of Weejuns last week and thought they looked good but less likely to hold up to every day use than the Sebagos. Weejuns just didn't look that solid.


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## JohnnyVegas (Nov 17, 2005)

Reading these threads is almost depressing for me, as I have never found a pair of loafers that fits me well. My right foot is a tad wider than my left, and without laces to make the shoe a little tighter or looser they tend to fit only one of my feet properly. I've tried on everything from Bass to AE with no luck.

Ah well, lace-ups are pretty if nothing else.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

JohnnyVegas said:


> Reading these threads is almost depressing for me, as I have never found a pair of loafers that fits me well. My right foot is a tad wider than my left, and without laces to make the shoe a little tighter or looser they tend to fit only one of my feet properly....


You may want to consider getting a pair of cheap beefrolls. Buy the ones which fit your wider foot. Then take the the one which is too big (for your smaller foot) and get your local cobbler to add some stitches on the beefroll to tighten it a bit. Might work, if the guy has any skill.

I'll see if I can cobble (no pun intended) together a diagram or something. Keep in mind, this is a theory right now, although someone on the Fashion Forum was talking about having it done.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Doctor Damage said:


> Some of us like our loafers to flop around, though. I wear exactly the same size in loafers as lace-ups.
> DD


Really? I couldn't stand it - felt like I was going to slide right out of them.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Wearing too-loose (especially too-long) leather soled loafers is very very bad for the knees and hips. Be careful.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

qwerty said:


> Wearing too-loose (especially too-long) leather soled loafers is very very bad for the knees and hips. Be careful.


Really? Never heard of that. With respect, I don't think leather-soled lace-ups would be any different. Certainly, the construction is identical, and snug shoes restrict the feet, which I don't think is good.


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## qwerty (Jun 24, 2005)

Doctor Damage said:


> Really? Never heard of that. With respect, I don't think leather-soled lace-ups would be any different. Certainly, the construction is identical, and snug shoes restrict the feet, which I don't think is good.


The difference is that lace-ups have higher vamps, so although the foot slides inside of them if they are too large, they must be REALLY large in order for them to keep slipping off. Loafers, on the other hand, slip off the feet if they are too loose, and the toes curl up in an order to 'latch on' to the insole. Walking with your feet like this is very bad for the feet and the knees, and thus for the hips as well.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

DD was talking about SAS penny loafers, and on another thread it was mentioned that this style wasn't available for a while, but now is. The SAS main factory , here in San Antonio, burned to the ground a couple of years ago and only recently returned to full capacity. The owners kept everyone on payroll from the time of the fire until completion of the new factory. Most of those folks remain on the job now.


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## JohnnyVegas (Nov 17, 2005)

Doctor Damage said:


> You may want to consider getting a pair of cheap beefrolls. Buy the ones which fit your wider foot. Then take the the one which is too big (for your smaller foot) and get your local cobbler to add some stitches on the beefroll to tighten it a bit. Might work, if the guy has any skill.
> 
> I'll see if I can cobble (no pun intended) together a diagram or something. Keep in mind, this is a theory right now, although someone on the Fashion Forum was talking about having it done.


There's a good cobbler on the East Side that could probably do this. What "cheap" beefrolls would you all recommend?


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