# Donegal or Harris Tweed for Jacket?



## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

I'm having a jacket made of one of these two tweeds:

Harris Taransay at about 450 grams or 15 oz

and a Magee Donegal with beige fleck at about the same weight


Casual jacket: I like a soft shoulder and will get patch pockets below.

What do you think is a better tweed for this kind of jacket, color aside? I understand that the Donegal has a softer hand.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Donegal is softer cloth than Harris tweed.

Taransay is one of the jackets that Haggas is offering (made on China)


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> Donegal is softer cloth than Harris tweed.
> 
> Taransay is one of the jackets that Haggas is offering (made on China)


 thanks.
i think the Taransay comes in quite a few diff looks


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> Donegal is softer cloth than Harris tweed.
> 
> Taransay is one of the jackets that Haggas is offering (made on China)


We all know the best tweed comes from China. Just ask Doctor Who.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

MikeDT: The screen worn sport coat is still made with Harris Tweed. The bad cash grab AHEM I mean licenced replica is made in China.

Going on looks alone, I'd have to say the Donegal.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Jovan said:


> MikeDT: The screen worn sport coat is still made with Harris Tweed. The bad cash grab AHEM I mean licenced replica is made in China.
> 
> Going on looks alone, I'd have to say the Donegal.


thx - raises another Qn for me: Is the flecking in the Donegals distinct enough to match neckwear and PSs with? - and the color in the Harris for that matter ..


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## Carolus (May 12, 2009)

Pliny said:


> thx - raises another Qn for me: Is the flecking in the Donegals distinct enough to match neckwear and PSs with? - and the color in the Harris for that matter ..


 Yes and they also provide good guidance for pant colours to go with the jacket!


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## CharlesFerdinand (Jun 18, 2010)

Pliny said:


> thx - raises another Qn for me: Is the flecking in the Donegals distinct enough to match neckwear and PSs with? - and the color in the Harris for that matter ..


In mine, it isn't.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

I was very dissatisfied with a Porter & Harding Harris tweed I bought a couple of years ago and have already experienced a lot of fraying and pilling on it. I have a couple of Donegals--one from H&S, another from P&H. Both have been very satisfactory garments. I vote Donegal.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I could imagine a green tie going well with it.

Just curious, what style details will you have on it?


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Carolus said:


> Yes and they also provide good guidance for pant colours to go with the jacket!





CharlesFerdinand said:


> In mine, it isn't.


 okay guess it varies, cheers both


JLibourel said:


> I was very dissatisfied with a Porter & Harding Harris tweed I bought a couple of years ago and have already experienced a lot of fraying and pilling on it. I have a couple of Donegals--one from H&S, another from P&H. Both have been very satisfactory garments. I vote Donegal.


 hmm, just had a jacket made in P&H so fingers crossed


Jovan said:


> I could imagine a green tie going well with it.
> Just curious, what style details will you have on it?


I like how this came out, so I'll repeat the styling here: 3 button, no special collar or cuffs, centre vent at back, quite plain for the sake of versatility, except perhaps to specify that the lower patch pockets belly a little i.e. wider at bottom.
suggestions welcome.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Pliny: Nice jacket overall but, the center button does seem to be pulling a bit. Not to be snarky but, that and the lateral folds, just above the button, suggest a slight fitting adjustment might be in order. When you say you want the "lower patch pockets a little wider at the bottom," are you suggestion a cargo pocket design, such as might be found on a shooting jacket/coat? If so you might want to also add flaps at the pocket tops to complete the look!


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Carolus said:


> Yes and they also provide good guidance for pant colours to go with the jacket!





CharlesFerdinand said:


> In mine, it isn't.





JLibourel said:


> I was very dissatisfied with a Porter & Harding Harris tweed I bought a couple of years ago and have already experienced a lot of fraying and pilling on it. I have a couple of Donegals--one from H&S, another from P&H. Both have been very satisfactory garments. I vote Donegal.





eagle2250 said:


> Pliny: Nice jacket overall but, the center button does seem to be pulling a bit. Not to be snarky but, that and the lateral folds, just above the button, suggest a slight fitting adjustment might be in order. When you say you want the "lower patch pockets a little wider at the bottom," are you suggestion a cargo pocket design, such as might be found on a shooting jacket/coat? If so you might want to also add flaps at the pocket tops to complete the look!


 Not at all - I hadn't noticed the laterals, but now u mention it, cheers, maybe an inch more on the next. 
Some people like the patch pockets narrower at the top - minimizes the straight lines. 
I'm sold on Tweed now - and I''m leaning to the Donegal for its softness, despite being tempted by the 'magical' weave of the Harris.


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## Mathguy (May 16, 2006)

Don't overthink it, just pick the one you like. 
But if you chose your clothes by popular vote, I like the Donegal better.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

I have four Harris jackets and one Donegal; I've been very happy with the Harris and, while not as soft a hand (it's tweed, c'mon!), seems to hold up wonderfully. Have you considered a 3/2 instead of a 3 button? I find the 3B looks a bit out of place with a casual tweed, IMHO.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm not sure if Bookster's capable of doing a proper 3/2 roll.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

Jovan said:


> I'm not sure if Bookster's capable of doing a proper 3/2 roll.


I understand this to simply be a function of the canvassing and pressing, no?


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Not really, Twizz, depending on what you mean by the canvassing, but the roll is sewn in, part of the construction. If you look closely at the underside of the lapel of a well made coat of fine, light colored fabric (so you can see them) you will see many stitches.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I've seen a few coats from tailors who aren't used to making a 3/2 and have anyway. It doesn't always look right.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> I have four Harris jackets and one Donegal; I've been very happy with the Harris and, while not as soft a hand (it's tweed, c'mon!), seems to hold up wonderfully. *Have you considered a 3/2 instead of a 3 button?* I find the 3B looks a bit out of place with a casual tweed, IMHO.





Jovan said:


> I've seen a few coats from tailors who aren't used to making a 3/2 and have anyway. It doesn't always look right.


def a thought, tho as u say perhaps risky. I'll ask. They were willing to accommodate my request for soft shoulder and sent me swatches unsolicited, so they def try to please


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> Not really, Twizz, depending on what you mean by the canvassing, but the roll is sewn in, part of the construction. If you look closely at the underside of the lapel of a well made coat of fine, light colored fabric (so you can see them) you will see many stitches.


I mean that the chest piece of the canvass is cut to permit the lapel roll, or shaped somehow thereof. I'll peek at the seersucker when it arrives this week (finally).


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

I've gone with this Donegal. decided grey is the best color for versatility after reading an article about Armani's new collection 'nwich he said grey 'is the masculine color _non pariel_. cos it's found in nature - stone, gravel, lichen etc '. I'm inclined to agree. Figure almost anything will go with a jacket in this cloth - browns, blues, pinks etc will post pics on completion


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
+1...an excellent and very versatile choice for a tweed jacket. Upon it's completion, may you long wear that jacket and in good health! :thumbs-up:


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Pliny said:


> I'm having a jacket made of one of these two tweeds:
> 
> Harris Taransay at about 450 grams or 15 oz
> 
> ...


I'll be honest. Neither of those two cloths excite me much.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

> I like how this came out, so I'll repeat the styling here: 3 button, no special collar or cuffs, centre vent at back, quite plain for the sake of versatility, except perhaps to specify that the lower patch pockets belly a little i.e. wider at bottom.
> suggestions welcome.


There seems to be too much waist suppression in the above photograph. I'd opt for side vents.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Jovan said:


> I'm not sure if Bookster's capable of doing a proper 3/2 roll.


That's what they said about two years ago. I don't understand how hard it can be to jerry-rig a 3/2 jacket ... seems to me you could do a two-button jacket and afterward add a third button and cut out a buttonhole.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

hockeyinsider said:


> That's what they said about two years ago. I don't understand how hard it can be to jerry-rig a 3/2 jacket ... seems to me you could do a two-button jacket and afterward add a third button and cut out a buttonhole.


Unless the lapels are canvassed it's not going to turn out well. I've never seen a completely fused 3-roll-2 jacket.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Matt S said:


> Unless the lapels are canvassed it's not going to turn out well. I've never seen a completely fused 3-roll-2 jacket.


Well, I'm by no means a tailor, but I don't see how it would make a difference if a third button -- decorative -- was sewn on the back side of the lapel and a buttonhole cut into the cloth of the other lapel.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> +1...an excellent and very versatile choice for a tweed jacket. Upon it's completion, may you long wear that jacket and in good health! :thumbs-up:


cheers - I have a couple of tweeds with bright (red and orange) checks so I'm happy to get something more subdued. Tweed is none too common here and can look costumey (I'm talking somewhere where dressing up meansputting a shirt on and wearing footwear other than flip flops :icon_smile but the grey will just look like an understated quality jacket. ... can brighten it up with ties and squares if need be.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

hockeyinsider said:


> Well, I'm by no means a tailor, but I don't see how it would make a difference if a third button -- decorative -- was sewn on the back side of the lapel and a buttonhole cut into the cloth of the other lapel.


I notice a difference in my 3-roll-2 suits from my 2-button suits. The lapels are cut a bit differently in the ones I have.


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## Binkie Baumont (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm going on a Vintage Bicycle run commonly called a "Tweed Run" I'm wearing this, but cant decide between_* breeks*_ and knee high riding boots or long argyle socks and brogues? as for headwear, a Deerstalker hat or a Newsboy Cap










Oh this is the Bicycle


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Binkie Baumont said:


> I'm going on a Vintage Bicycle run commonly called a "Tweed Run" I'm wearing this, but cant decide between_* breeks*_ and knee high riding boots or long argyle socks and brogues? as for headwear, a Deerstalker hat or a Newsboy Cap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that bipod stand for the basket so you can carry an anvil if need be and do some frame repairs to the cycles?

Could I suggest breeks and argyles for the boneshaker, and perhaps ankle boots? Old photos reveal mostly long socks and slip-ons or low lace-up shoes ...


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Binkie: Why not just get a pair of trouser straps to keep your cuffs from getting caught in the gears?

https://www.amazon.com/Brooks-Trouser-Clip-and-Strap/dp/B001A65ZQW


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Jovan said:


> Binkie: Why not just get a pair of trouser straps to keep your cuffs from getting caught in the gears?


We have bicycle clips for that purpose in the UK and Australia


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

I'm interested in some more Tweed advice please. I'm having a 3 button jacket made with this:

Salt and Pepper Donegal - in 450g/15oz soft finish.

what are your views about trews in the same cloth. would it make a good suit? And if 'yes', should the pants be pleated? cuffed?

My inclination is to go flat front. But I'm really not sure whether this would be a good trouser cloth. Any coments very welcome. thx


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Pliny said:


> I'm interested in some more Tweed advice please. I'm having a 3 button jacket made with this:
> 
> Salt and Pepper Donegal - in 450g/15oz soft finish.
> 
> ...


That cloth would be great as a suit. Because of the heavy weight, cuffs won't matter much. But if you want cuffs get them. Flat front or pleated is up to you. Cuffs and pleats are independent of each other.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Matt S said:


> That cloth would be great as a suit. Because of the heavy weight, cuffs won't matter much. But if you want cuffs get them. Flat front or pleated is up to you. Cuffs and pleats are independent of each other.


Ah thank you, it's not all that common to see Tweed suits of any weight in my part of the world, so I wasn't sure whether 15 oz would work for trousers I'm excited about the prospect now even if I have to wait until next Winter to get any real use out of it. (great blog BTW, really enjoy it)


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## philip in china (Aug 4, 2011)

Your problem with trousers in that weight will be keeping the creases in them. I would recommend you find somebody who does permanent guaranteed creases and get those put in. That notwithstanding get into the habit of storing them in their creases under your mattress. That is an excellent way of keeping difficult trousers pressed.

I have a suit in a Glenhunt 866 which is a 17-18 ounce cloth. Subject only to the above caveat I love it


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Matt S said:


> That cloth would be great as a suit. Because of the heavy weight, cuffs won't matter much. But if you want cuffs get them. Flat front or pleated is up to you. Cuffs and pleats are independent of each other.


+1. Pliny is going to have himself a very handsome suit, crafted from that cloth!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Whenever I think of a tweed suit, I think of Ewan McGregor's character in _Stay_. An otherwise mediocre movie apart from his clothes. Would you believe that it's Thom Browne? They probably had to size up so he'd look fairly normal.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> +1. Pliny is going to have himself a very handsome suit, crafted from that cloth!


! encouraging 


philip in china said:


> Your problem with trousers in that weight will be keeping the creases in them. I would recommend you find somebody who does permanent guaranteed creases and get those put in. That notwithstanding get into the habit of storing them in their creases under your mattress. That is an excellent way of keeping difficult trousers pressed.
> 
> I have a suit in a Glenhunt 866 which is a 17-18 ounce cloth. Subject only to the above caveat I love it


 this I haven't heard - I hope i'm not going to shuffle off some time and my children will say 'y'now, Dad was all right but a bit crazy, he loved his clothes so much he kept a pair of Tweeds under the mattress' ??

thanks all for sage advice


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

philip in china: I know what permanent crease thing you're referring to and that's a horrible thing to do to such nice fabric. Better to lose the creases and have to press them back in than gluing a thin strip of fusible along the length of the trouser!


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Jovan said:


> philip in china: I know what permanent crease thing you're referring to and that's a horrible thing to do to such nice fabric. Better to lose the creases and have to press them back in than gluing a thin strip of fusible along the length of the trouser!


+1. Never put any chemicals like that into your clothes, whether they keep creases in or keep them out. They ruin the fabric. The best thing to do is to get a trouser press, which does a great job at maintaining a crease.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

I am ignorant on the subject of this "permanent crease" process, but the posts above make me pretty sure I'd just as soon remain that way.

You can also touch up pants creases with an iron. It involves some domestic labor, but at least it's a good bit easier than trying to iron a whole shirt, which apparently some people here (other than me) do on a regular basis.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

I do hope this is not what most Donegals look like


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL. Don't lose any sleep over it. If that were the typical look of a Donegal tweed, there would be a whole lot fewer of us wearing suits/sport coats crafted of such!


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Pliny said:


> I do hope this is not what most Donegals look like


No, some of them look like this..








Awesome.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Go figure. I remember the pattern being closer to what MikeDT posted in the actual movie as opposed to that picture.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

MikeDT said:


> No, some of them look like this..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


okay now I'm seriously scared. that collar looks like a swing-wing jet


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## Finian McLonergan (Sep 23, 2009)

Pliny said:


> thx - raises another Qn for me: Is the flecking in the Donegals distinct enough to match neckwear and PSs with? - and the color in the Harris for that matter ..


 To some extent this depends on the natural light. This flecking is designed to be picked out by the low angle, high contrast light you find at high latitudes, typically 60N/S and above from late Autumn to early Spring when the clarity of this high contrast light is sometimes enhanced by the effect of cold on humidity levels. This effect also works with loose-weaved "hairy" tweed such as Harris, where the open texture of the weave means there are lots of little threads poking out which will gleam and glint under these conditions. Tweeds really transform under these conditions, as do buildings made of granite such as you'll find in Aberdeen or Edinburgh Old Town.
Studio shots never do justice to tweeds, imo.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

thoughtful comment, thank you. I had never considered Tweed until I scored a couple of Harris jackets from a deceased estate. Happened to look closely in the sunlight - which here is high contrast too - and was taken by the rainbow of colors. a moor I'd never seen - mosses, lichens, thistles, gorse .. woven into a cloth.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

the suit I ended up ordering is this grey Donegal with patches

Bookster softened the shoulders for me


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^


Pliny said:


> thoughtful comment, thank you. I had never considered Tweed until I scored a couple of Harris jackets from a deceased estate. Happened to look closely in the sunlight - which here is high contrast too - and was taken by the rainbow of colors. a moor I'd never seen - mosses, lichens, thistles, gorse .. woven into a cloth.


May you enjoy that new suit and long wear it, in good health! Also wanted to say, I'm loving the poetic quality of the second sentence in your post, quoted above. Well done sir.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Cheers! might have had a glass or two and waxed lyrical :redface: but a good Harris is pretty sweet like that.

lining shot


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Pliny said:


> the suit I ended up ordering is this grey Donegal with patches
> 
> Bookster softened the shoulders for me


Very nice. What other options did you get with it? I didn't know Bookster could do soft shoulders. The trousers drape well. I have two pairs of Bookster trousers and I have found them to cut a little too generous.


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## persun (Nov 14, 2011)

you should have your jacket to be made with Donegal for you want your jacket to be soft and as you know that Donegal is more soft than the Harris Tweed!


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

hockeyinsider said:


> Very nice. What other options did you get with it? I didn't know Bookster could do soft shoulders. The trousers drape well. I have two pairs of Bookster trousers and I have found them to cut a little too generous.


Thanks- In the trews I ordered a 32" pattern with a 33" waist. You can request the waist 1 or 2 inches bigger - or the rest of the pattern 1 or 2 inches smaller depending on POV. the soft shoulder option costs a little extra = they told me last night they send it away to an off-site tailor for this option.

u can tweak just about anything- that's my understanding. some adjustments alter the cost, and some don't. What's undeniable is that the clothes are very well made - stitching in particular is robust.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Pliny said:


> Thanks- In the trews I ordered a 32" pattern with a 33" waist. You can request the waist 1 or 2 inches bigger - or the rest of the pattern 1 or 2 inches smaller depending on POV. the soft shoulder option costs a little extra = they told me last night they send it away to an off-site tailor for this option.
> 
> u can tweak just about anything- that's my understanding. some adjustments alter the cost, and some don't. What's undeniable is that the clothes are very well made - stitching in particular is robust.


This is one of the better looking Bookster suits. It doesn't have big, defined shoulders and gross exaggerations of the chest and waist, as some hacking jackets do. I have two jackets from Bookster and the differences between the two are substantial. I knew they could narrow lapels, sleeves and the like. Perhaps they've improved the pattern of less structured jackets.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Pliny: Looks good otherwise, but you should either get two button or see if they can lower the button stance on the three button in the future. It's rather high, which makes the lapels look short and stubby. Okay if you're wearing a turtleneck and jodhpurs for horseback riding, but not such a good look worn as a lounge suit IMO.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Jovan said:


> Pliny: Looks good otherwise, but you should either get two button or see if they can lower the button stance on the three button in the future. It's rather high, which makes the lapels look short and stubby. Okay if you're wearing a turtleneck and jodhpurs for horseback riding, but not such a good look worn as a lounge suit IMO.


I ride a Kangaroo to work and the high stance is considered okay for that. 

I had the view - wrongly, I guess - that the high stance/short lapel Bookster style was acceptable for a _ruse in urbe_ patch pocket Donegal.

I'm glad u mentioned it tho, cos it's not too late for me to change my current order back to 2 buttons. It's for a 3 button in their blue overcheck POW ..










Thoughts anyone?

I was also about to order a Bookster soft-shoulder in this rather nice Minnis Fresco I've been offered by a friend:










and now I'm not sure the 3 would work.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Pliny said:


> I ride a Kangaroo a work and the high stance is considered okay for that.
> 
> but seriously, I had the view - wrongly, I guess - that the high stance/short lapel Bookster style was okay for a _ruse in urbe_ patch pocket Donegal.
> 
> ...


My two Bookster jackets are both two buttons, but the stance is still rather high. Bookster can do one-button hacking jackets akin to Huntsman.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Never seen a pic of the single- risky

What's the consensus on buttoning points tho? .. just been looking at a new thread on SF where low points are described as 'outdated' '20 yr old' and 'dark ages' :confused2:


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

Pliny said:


> Never seen a pic of the single- risky
> 
> What's the consensus on buttoning points tho? .. just been looking at a new thread on SF where low points are described as 'outdated' '20 yr old' and 'dark ages' :confused2:


I agree with the point on Style Forum. If the stance is too low, the jacket comes off as very early 1990s.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

hockeyinsider said:


> I agree with the point on Style Forum. If the stance is too low, the jacket comes off as very early 1990s.


Too low, yes, early 90s. But Bookster's button stance looks too high on both the 2-button and 3-button jackets. I'd assume they put the button on a 1-button jacket at the same height as the top button on a 2-button jacket. That's traditionally how it's done. But I'd ask for it about an inch lower, or maybe a little more.


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## Pliny (Oct 26, 2009)

Matt S said:


> Too low, yes, early 90s. But Bookster's button stance looks too high on both the 2-button and 3-button jackets. I'd assume they put the button on a 1-button jacket at the same height as the top button on a 2-button jacket. That's traditionally how it's done. But I'd ask for it about an inch lower, or maybe a little more.


thx Matt, good advice.


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