# Dark Brown shell cordovan



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

I have a question for all, but most particularly for Leathersoul Tom. It came to mind after seeing the photo of the dark "chocolate" brown alligator strap by B.D. Jeffries:

Is there any interest in a dark brown shell cordovan? Not burgundy, and not "cigar.". I'm thinking of a _very_ dark (maybe "chocolate" would work) shell cordovan. Crockett & Jones uses a "dark brown shell cordovan." Is it reasonable to guess that Horween is making/providing it to them?

I wonder--and, again, I direct this question to Tom--if Alden has shown (or may in the future show) any interest? I would think there would be a market for this color/shade.

Thanks.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

If Alden would make shoes in that color I would buy them. :icon_smile_big: 
Dark brown is a color that is sadly missing in Alden's shell repertoire. I've heard that the new Cigar tannage is more chocolate brown (?)


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## spinlps (Feb 15, 2004)

According to this picture from the plal.com website (page numbers may indicate it comes from the actual CJ print catalog?), CJ uses Horween shell cordovan for at least some of their shoes. Who's going to order the Harvard to find out? :icon_smile:


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

I also would be interested in a pair of dark brown shell cords. I like the cordovan/#8 color, but a chocolate brown would surely be my favorite. I am looking to purchase my first ever pair of shell shoes and would wait for a pair in that color if it became available...

TT


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## spinlps (Feb 15, 2004)

TradTeacher said:


> I also would be interested in a pair of dark brown shell cords. I like the cordovan/#8 color, but a chocolate brown would surely be my favorite. I am looking to purchase my first ever pair of shell shoes and would wait for a pair in that color if it became available...
> 
> TT


Check out the Polo Darlton Shells. They also come in a penny and plain blucher.

Darlton Wingtip

Darlton Tassell

You're a 9 - 9.5 correct? If so, you may be interested in these:

or even these from the ebay thread:

If you like the Polo Shells, keep in mind that they are usually discounted (25 - 30%) 2 - 3 times per year. And, at least one of those times coincides with Polo's additional 30 - 40% coupon (site or store) which brings the cost of the shoes into the $300 - $350 range. I have the bluchers & the pennies and am waiting for the next sale + coupon to grab either the wingtips or the boots.

Good luck!


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

spinlps said:


> You're a 9 - 9.5 correct? If so, you may be interested in these:


How do the Polo shell's run size wise? I'm a 9.5 in Weejuns but drop to a 9 in lace-up shoes. I love those bluchers. I've been eyeing the Alden 990 in shell but those Darlton's would work just as well, and at a much better price.

Thanks, spin...

TT


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## abc123 (Jun 4, 2006)

Harris,

I own a pair of C&J (for Polo) dark brown shell blutchers. I am pretty sure that C&J sources their cordovan from Horween. The shoes are very nice, although I cannot compare the color to Aldens "cigar", as I don't own any Aldens in that color. If you would like, I can try to take a picture or two of the shoes when I get the chance. 

All in all, its a great color, though perhaps not as "chocolatey" as you may be thinking of. Mine are fairly new, and my polo salesman told me they do darken up significantly with age. 

If the C&J color is to your liking, why not go with those instead of waiting for an Alden offering? The quality is at least the equal of Alden, and as mentioned, with the Polo sales, the cost is cheaper.


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## Chris H (Oct 30, 2004)

I own a pair of the C&J Harvards in whiskey cordovan and I can confirm that the cordovan shell is from Horween. The shoes are unlined and the the inside of the shoe is stamped Horween. I purchased them from the Crockett & Jones shop in Jermyn Street, at the time the salesman told me C&J only use cordovan from Horween. I intend to purchase the Harvard in dark brown cordovan if they are in the summer sale this year.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Harris-Horween does produce many other shades that Alden does not offer. Logistically it is very difficult for a factory/business like Alden to introduce new shades without messing up the whole scheme of things if that makes any sense. 

For instance...what if Alden let me do a run of special brown cordovan...I think Adam from Carmel may get jealous when he found out and then he would go to Alden and request access to that special brown as well...then the whole thing blows up before you know it. Next thing you know, a small retailer who orders 10 pair a year is demanding access to that special brown cordovan too. 

Alden already has its hands full with retailers BEGGING for whiskey and ravello. Adding another color would just make things worse.


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## spinlps (Feb 15, 2004)

TradTeacher said:


> How do the Polo shell's run size wise? I'm a 9.5 in Weejuns but drop to a 9 in lace-up shoes. I love those bluchers. I've been eyeing the Alden 990 in shell but those Darlton's would work just as well, and at a much better price.
> 
> Thanks, spin...
> 
> TT


I wear an 11 in the Polo blucher and size down to a 10.5 for the penny. When you compare the weejun to lace-ups, do the actual lengths and widths measure the same? Ask the seller to measure the pair for sale and compare.

I think you mentioned you'll be heading to Atlanta. Stop by the Polo shop and try them on to be sure if you're looking at a web / retail purchase.

Good luck. Now, how do we delete those links for you...


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## HL Poling and Sons (Mar 24, 2006)

Regarding the Alden Cigar shade, I just received a gorgeous pair of Cigar shell bluchers from LeatherSoul. The color is a very dark, rich (I would describe it as chocolate) brown. Not at all the sort of olive shade that we've seen pictures of. Definitely chocolate.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

HL Poling and Sons said:


> Regarding the Alden Cigar shade, I just received a gorgeous pair of Cigar shell bluchers from LeatherSoul. The color is a very dark, rich (I would describe it as chocolate) brown. Not at all the sort of olive shade that we've seen pictures of. Definitely chocolate.


Yes, the recent batches of Cigar have been much more of a chocolaty dark brown. Very nice indeed. I'm sure our resident expert on shell Aldens, Phil, will concur. Thanks for the comment D!


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Tom, thanks for the feedback.

I'd like to see the tassel moc and LHS in the dark brown shell (Horween) that C&J is using, complete with white stitching, but, oh well...

As for the PoloRL Darlton line: they don't offer wide widths, which I need.

It's interesting how many variations of "cigar" I've seen. I like these:

https://www.theshoemart.com/cgi-bin...ll_Cordovan_Cigar_Revello&ps=6&start=23&rpro=


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Actually, Tom, I wonder if what I'm after is a shell cordovan that's identical in color/shade to the dark brown calf that Alden uses for the 5726F or maybe the 3694f.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

I have a pair of dark brown cordovan cap toe boots from Carmina. I love them. They look nice, and scoff at bad weather.


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## LeatherSOUL (May 8, 2005)

Harris said:


> Actually, Tom, I wonder if what I'm after is a shell cordovan that's identical in color/shade to the dark brown calf that Alden uses for the 5726F or maybe the 3694f.


Harris-That looks more like bugundy calf with bad lighting to me.

The brown calf that Alden uses on the 5726F is amazing by the way.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Tom, thanks again.

I can (and will) keep the fingers crossed, in hopes that Alden considers a very dark brown shell cordovan as an option, even if it's limited to few Alden retailers. I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning to the "powers that be" at Alden, but, again, I bet there's a market out there.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

A question for the cordovan aficionados:

Doesnt the No. 8 color take on a very chocolately color as it darkens with age? I have some 6 year old AE loafers that look rather chocolate to my eye. There is still a hint of red/burgandy, but not much.

I assume that a more brown/chocolate cordovan would age to look even darker?


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

That's been my experience as well. My old(er) Alden shell cordovans have, after years and in some cases even decades of wear, lost the burgundy undertones that the new(er) ones still have. Even up close they appear to be a very, very dark ("chocloatey"?) brown.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Harris said:


> That's been my experience as well. My old(er) Alden shell cordovans have, after years and in some cases even decades of wear, lost the burgundy undertones that the new(er) ones still have. Even up close they appear to be a very, very dark ("chocloatey"?) brown.


I love that rich, chocolatey (shoe) goodness 

Since I am relatively new to shell cordovan (my 6 yr old shoes were acquired from eBay last year), it is nice to hear of people actually getting decades worth of wear from their shoes.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

The variation among/within the same shell cordovan color/shade/family--it's interesting. I've seen #8 shells that appear dark brown (no hint of burgundy), not unlike the way the 563 appears in these photos:
https://www.natoriya.jp/cgis/goodsl...ds=&genre_id=00000004&goods_id=00000072&sort=

I've also seen new #8 shells that feature a strong reddish burgundy tint.


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## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

My 3 year-old pair of cigar shell Alden chukkas are pure chocolate brown, and don't have any of the olive cast I've seen in some recent photos of cigar shell cordovan posted here. 

Peter


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

The Continental Fop said:


> My 3 year-old pair of cigar shell Alden chukkas are pure chocolate brown, and don't have any of the olive cast I've seen in some recent photos of cigar shell cordovan posted here.
> 
> Peter


My experience too. There was some olive in the color intially, but the shoe darkened over time and the color is now closer to chocolate brown.

I do associate cigar color with that "older" shade. Since cigars do have some olive hues in them, maybe Horween needs to change the name...


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## MichaelB (Dec 17, 2004)

The Alden cordovans I own have definitely changed their shade. A pair of wingtips, now eighteen years old and rebuilt by Alden, are a deep milk chocolate (dark matte brown with lighter creases). A pair of tassel loafers, not quite as old, are even darker, with more of a glowing low luster. Both are much less burgundy/cordovan than when I bought them. And a pair of plain-toe bluchers which started out quite reddish are now, at about six years old, black coffee. Three different shades, but all pleasing (at least to my taste).


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## spinlps (Feb 15, 2004)

I just posted a pic of my RL Darlton's in the Daily Footwear thread:



10 months old and a bit darker than when purchased. It's not clear in the pic, but the burnishing (diagonal from lower left to upper right) adds depth and "texture" to the finish.

Re: the variation in Shell color. My Darlton pennies (4 months) are considerable lighter but I expect them darken with age and use.


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Alden has definetely changed their cigar shell color over time. It used to be very olive in color, but is now a very dark chocolately brown. Its quite similar to the Polo C&J dark brown shell color.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Phil, don't you own the dark brown shell "Harvard" model by C&J?


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## 18677 (Jan 4, 2006)

*.*

It is quite a coincidence to find this thread. Since hearing the wonderful attributes of cordovan and wanting to add another pair of Aldens to my wardrobe, I stopped into the Alden store on Madison. I don't care for burgundy and I don't need another pair of black shoes. Most of my shoes are AE chili. I wanted a deeper brown this time. I did see a few pair that were a dark brown....which the salesman called cigar. He said that is not a color in the catalog but is a special order color that they get once in a while. They didn't have many pairs left in cigar and I wear a very wide size(8 1/2 EEE). The widest they carried is E, so he looked for a pair in the styles of cigar cordovan that they had. No dice. It was not looking like I was going to have any luck....they he said "let me check one last thing". He returned with a rare 8 1/2 EEE cordovan cigar, which had been a special order that the customer hadn't gotten around to picking up yet. It looked closer to the burgundy sample than the cigar to me. He said cigar looks like that out of the box, but exposure to light changes the finish....and that if I wanted to speed up the transformation, to leave it in sunlight.

$600 for a pair of shoes is very steep for me...but they were the right size and the right color. I usually get shoes for a bargain. I suppose paying full pop for a pair once in a great while isn't too bad.

When the iron is hot.....


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Harris- yes, I do own those loafers.


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## bfad51 (Mar 17, 2007)

Ralph Lauren still offers the best looking Cordovan browns out there.
I am sure the leather had to come from Horoween also.
The penny they made was so beautiful they also made the shoe for a while in the tassel loafers and the plain toe tie shoe.. (all shoes had a very heavy sole
on them and I guess they would wear for about 100 years)


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## spinlps (Feb 15, 2004)

bfad51 said:


> Ralph Lauren still offers the best looking Cordovan browns out there.
> I am sure the leather had to come from Horoween also.
> The penny they made was so beautiful they also made the shoe for a while in the tassel loafers and the plain toe tie shoe.. (all shoes had a very heavy sole
> on them and I guess they would wear for about 100 years)


Speaking of which, the current 30% Polo code brings the price of the wingtips, bluchers & tassels from $695 to $486 (shipped, no tax depending on location). The Pennies drop from $595 to $416. Not too bad for a shell shoe in a unique color. Of course, you can get them cheaper when they go on sale and a stackable coupon is available... usually May and Nov.


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