# Super 150 vs. super 110



## suitabill (Nov 6, 2007)

Greetings all. I'm new here and I don't know much about suits. Wondering if a noticeable difference in durability (resistance to abrasion/snags etc.) should be expected between a super 150 fabric vs. a super 110? I had a salesman in a store the other day tell me that 110 is a much more practical fabric to use for regular-wear suits (by regular wear, i mean wearing it to work every 3rd/4th day). Thanks


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

He is correct.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

S150 feels like tissue paper. It should be regarded as a special occasions suit at the most. Dry cleaning becomes difficult with higher super numbers and the garment may be destroyed by dodgy cleaning jobs. 

S150s also drape poorly and they look like pyjamas. The high price is just a sales gimmick coupled with advertising hype. I generally avoid super anything like the plague, particularly anything over S120 at the very most.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Years ago an elderly "statesman" of the local textile trade was pointing out why a jacket purchase of mine was poor and how and what to look for when I returned.

He said, 100s for work, 120s for going out, beyond that you do not need.

The key here is "need". 
I, like most here I would guess, have failed to follow his advice completely and have several pieces beyond his 120s threshold out of "want".

If they are well made, they look beautiful!
I have not found that they wear as fragile as many feel they do, but they are more fragile to some degree and I do wear them as special occasion wear.


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

FWIW, I have a 150's Brioni DB and a 150's Isaia tuxedo and love them both. They're definitely special occasion suits but are a joy to wear.

About a year ago a fellow from the Wall Street Journal wrote an article on this very subject. Yours truly was interviewed and quoted. I'll see if I can find it.


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## suitabill (Nov 6, 2007)

thanks to all for weighing in.


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## whistle_blower71 (May 26, 2006)

You should not judge a cloth by it's super number alone.
I have had a super 80s suit that looked like a rag after a couple of hours and a super 150s that performs superbly. This has been covered many times on this forum before but supers only refers to the raw material, it does not say anything about the quality of the weaving and finishing.

*W_B*


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I have a few Loro Piana Super 120s and 130s Tasmanian-wool suits (BB GF & H-F) that seem to hold up OK, but then again I have a lot of suits so the frequent-wearings thing is not an issue.

Some seasons ago I nearly pulled the trigger on a Super 150s at Off 5th, but it did seem a bit too delicate, light, and tissue-like, so I gave it a pass.

Super 110s can offer a really nice intersection of elegance w/ hardy wearing qualities.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

mano said:


> He is correct.


+1.....


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

zegnamtl said:


> Years ago an elderly "statesman" of the local textile trade was pointing out why a jacket purchase of mine was poor and how and what to look for when I returned.
> 
> He said, 100s for work, 120s for going out, beyond that you do not need.
> 
> ...


Of all of the fabrics that Oxxford offers (their own fabrics, Holland and Sherry, Scabal and Scabal Eton), their most popular fabrics are their super 120s fabric offerings followed extremely closely by their super 130s fabric offerings in popularity.

Oxxford's super 110s fabric offerings very closely follow their super 130s fabric offerings in popularity with their super 100s fabric offerings following just as close to their super 110's fabric offerings in popularity as their super 130s fabric offerings follow their super 120s fabric offerings in popularity.

Several employees at the following stores in the tri state area: the Oxxford store in New York City, New York, Thomas Miller in the Woodbury Commons Shopping Center in Woodbury, NY, Bergdorf Goodman in NYC, NY, Victor Talbots in the Greenvale Plaza in Greenvale, NY and Barney's New York on 660 Madison Ave in NYC, NY have all told me that with all of Oxxford's tailored clothing that is made out of super fabrics that the only super fabrics that can be worn everyday to work as well as all other everyday situations that may require dressing up and, of course, special occasions that may require dressing up is tailored clothing made out of super fabrics ranging from super 100s to super 130s.

However, I was told that Oxxford's tailored clothing that is made out of super fabrics ranging from super 140s to super 180s is generally special occasions only tailored clothing that once in a while (i.e. every six or more months) can be worn to work as well as all other everyday situations that may require dressing up while Oxxford's tailored clothing that is made out of super fabrics ranging from super 190s to super 220s is strictly for special occasions and absolutely nothing else due to being extremely delicate.

FWIW, Oxxford does not yet offer any super fabrics for their tailored clothing that are super 230s and higher.

But yes, generally speaking, with super fabrics, tailored clothing that is made out of super 110s and lower super fabrics is the tailored clothing that can be worn to work as well as all other everyday situations that may require dressing up and, of course, special occasions that may require dressing up while tailored clothing that is made out of super fabrics ranging from super 120s to super 150s is generally special occasions only tailored clothing that once in a while (again, every six or more months) can be worn in all everyday situations that may require dressing up while tailored clothing that is made out of super fabrics that are super 160s and higher is strictly for special occasions and absolutely nothing else due to being extremely delicate.


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## whistle_blower71 (May 26, 2006)

Fashion TC said:


> Of all of the fabrics that Oxxford offers (their own fabrics, Holland and Sherry, Scabal and Scabal Eton), their most popular fabrics are their super 120s fabric offerings followed extremely closely by their super 130s fabric offerings in popularity.
> 
> Oxxford's super 110s fabric offerings very closely follow their super 130s fabric offerings in popularity with their super 100s fabric offerings following just as close to their super 110's fabric offerings in popularity as their super 130s fabric offerings follow their super 120s fabric offerings in popularity.
> 
> ...


How does a S160s+ suit know that it is a special occasion and not an everyday situation that requires dressing up? Is this another Oxxxford patented feature? 
I wear S150s to work a lot more than twice a year (10 to 15 times maybe) and they recover well.

*W_B*


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## Omega (Jul 10, 2005)

I guess it is correct place to ask questions about suits here: 
1. I have one Super 140 suit and one Super 130 suit. I wear them no more than 4 times a year each, Super 140 only for very special meetings and Super 130 for social events (it is LV, looks more dressy). I all the time feel that I am not wearing them enough. Will my suits get much damage if I wear them a bit more frequently, at least once every other week, i.e. bout 26 wears a year? I sometimes think they are already 3 years old and I haven't worn them much...
2. I have other suits, one Super 100 and the other Super 120. Since I wear them once a week, how many years should I expect using them? 
3. I have a suit that is 90% wool and 10% cashmere that I wear only during colder seasons, otherwise it is too warm. Will it significantly damage the fabric if I wear it more often than once a week? It is quite thick material and it is pity it stays most of the year in the wardrobe.
Thanks,


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

The real issue is the quality of the fabric, not it's "number". I've not had the good fortune of long lasting suits regardless of their fabric weight. Problems of stains, tears, shiny spots, etc develop long before the fabric itself gives out. Thus I consider all suits to be delicate and of need of special care. Perhaps polyester suits would last longer.


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## giff74 (Jan 15, 2007)

Give me a half dozen WELL tailored suits from super 110's and I am a happy camper! Pair those suits with some nice MTM shirts and comfy oxfords and you have a working mans dream.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

mano said:


> FWIW, I have a 150's Brioni DB and a 150's Isaia tuxedo and love them both. They're definitely special occasion suits but are a joy to wear.
> 
> About a year ago a fellow from the Wall Street Journal wrote an article on this very subject. Yours truly was interviewed and quoted. I'll see if I can find it.


I remember the great article. They (WSJ) also sent some of the suits to a reference lab to confirm if the claims to yarn thickness (110's, 150's, etc...) were true, and there were some discrepancies, even amongst the "good" names. As a general rule, however, the lower-numbers fabrics should be expected to be more functional in a workday role. I can't help but pull out the 150s once in a while for work.


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## rkipperman (Mar 19, 2006)

medhat said:


> I remember the great article. They (WSJ) also sent some of the suits to a reference lab to confirm if the claims to yarn thickness (110's, 150's, etc...) were true, and there were some discrepancies, even amongst the "good" names. As a general rule, however, the lower-numbers fabrics should be expected to be more functional in a workday role. I can't help but pull out the 150s once in a while for work.


Does anyone have a link to that article?


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## Rollo Tomasi (Mar 19, 2006)

While I'm by no means an expert on fabric, I can impart some feedback based on my personal experience. I currently have 25 Brioni and Kiton suits in my business rotation constructed of Super 150's up to Super 180's (14 micron) and all have been quite resilient and durable even in airline travel (once a week).

You have to consider the maker and quality of construction and cloth and not base it on a "super" number. The lightness and softness of my suits give me comfort and joy especially when summer comes and I travel around the southwestern U.S. One must also consider the care you place in your suits. I make it a point to steam and brush after every use.


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## DunninLA (Aug 17, 2007)

There are Super 100's suits that are better made, and feel more luxurious, than Super 140's made by a no-name manufacturer (then the distributor slaps some italian sounding name on the suit).

Super 100 refers to how thin the fiber is. The thinner the individual fibers, theoretically, the softer will be the feel of the fabric woven from it. Super 110 uses slightly thinner fiber than Super 100, and Super 120 slightly thinner than Super 110, etc. Another measure of fiber thinness that is being used more now is the micron thickness of the fiber. The lower, the thinner. In Supers, the opposite, the higher number, the thinner the fiber used.

The SUPER # does not tell you about how the fibers comprise the THREAD, or about the WEAVE, and some weaves are more durable than others, some weaves are softer than others. It also does not tell you about the finishing of the fabric at the mill. As I understand it.

So the Super # is only 1/3 of the information you need.

Fiber thickness + WEAVE + Fabric Finishing = Whole Picture.

And some no-name importers will slap a Super # on a Suit that is complete nonsense.

*edited after reading Teacher's post*


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

CORRECTION: The super number corresponds to the fineness of the individual fiber, not the thread (yarn) spun from the fiber. So very thick yarn _could_ be spun from high-number supers, but it would be shockingly expensive.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Teacher said:


> CORRECTION: The super number corresponds to the fineness of the individual fiber, not the thread (yarn) spun from the fiber. So very thick yarn _could_ be spun from high-number supers, but it would be shockingly expensive.


Sounds like a special commission is in order...


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

For the WSJ article, try this link:

https://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB116320267593320299-lMyQjAxMDE2NjEzMTIxMDEyWj.html


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## DunninLA (Aug 17, 2007)

To Rollo Tomasi: Purse stealing must be lucrative!


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

RJman said:


> Sounds like a special commission is in order...


London Lounge?



DunninLA said:


> To Rollo Tomasi: Purse stealing must be lucrative!


Good one!


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## Zubberah (Sep 29, 2003)

I have Super 150 suits from Brioni, Kiton and Zegna Napoli Couture (15mil15), plus a Gucci Super 140. I wear them regularly and have not had problems with 'wear" or loss of drape or any other problems suffered above from other posters. In fcat, the sheer pleasure of wearing such a luxurious fabric is incredibly sensual. Feels like silk. Love it.


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