# How do you tell quality shoes from cheap shoes?



## Liquidus (Mar 2, 2009)

When you're looking at shoes that somebody else is wearing (assuming you have not seen it before), how do you tell if they're good or not? My friend tells me he bought some cheap black dress shoes from Walmart and gets compliments on them...


----------



## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Square toes are indicative of low quality or style. 
The leather.
Welted.

I don't know, I can kinda just tell quality from cheap; however, while I can easily spot say a pair of Allen Edmonds on a guy, I can't tell a huge difference between say C&J to AE or Alden.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

You don't look at their shoes, you look at the size of the bulge in their back pocket! :icon_smile_big:

If you can't tell, you can't know!


----------



## mt_spiffy (Apr 12, 2008)

Walmart sells dress shoes?


----------



## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Liquidus said:


> When you're looking at shoes that somebody else is wearing (assuming you have not seen it before), how do you tell if they're good or not? My friend tells me he bought some cheap black dress shoes from Walmart and gets compliments on them...


Compliments don't mean a thing. What is *most* important is how comfortable your shoes are , and the life you get out of the pair of shoes. This is all you should worry about.

A good leather shoe should have (in my opinion):

1. Good quality calfskin (or shell corodovan if you can afford it). Good leather will last forever if you take good care of it (shoe trees, regular polish) and will develop a great patina that is yours and yours only.
2. Welted construction (Goodyear, Blake, Blake/rapid) that allows reheeling/re-soling when the heels/soles wear out. You don't have to throw away a pair of good shoes when the soles wear out. As I just said, uppers can last forever with good maintanence.
3. Most important: the last should fit your feet properly without any discomfort.

It is kinda not too hard to tell a welted shoe from a non-welted pair. That would be my first indication ... next would be the patina on the shoe that shows how nice the leather is. Plastickly looking (i.e corrected grain leather) shoes never develop a good patina due the nature of the leather, while a shoe like alden develops great patina. These are the two things that I'd look at if I am trying to evaluate someone else's shoe.

For instance, here are some very, very nice shoes from the daily footwear thread:


----------



## Liquidus (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. I looked up "patina" and I'm guessing thats a particular shine that good leather gives off? Can you provide a picture of a pair of shoes that has bad/no patina?


----------



## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Liquidus said:


> Thanks for the replies. I looked up "patina" and I'm guessing thats a particular shine that good leather gives off? Can you provide a picture of a pair of shoes that has bad/no patina?


Patina is the charecteristic aging of leather. It comes from use (though some people can make leather look artifically aged, and it looks, well artificial MOST of the times). Patina in shoes comes with regular use and regular polishing. Sometimes even creases on your shoes can lead to very interesting patina (and does so in many cases).

Here are some more pics to show what I am talking about:

A new alden LHS

(worn for many years but well taken care of)

Tom from Leathershoul hawaii posted a great thread here:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=91481

Not that the shoes posted here were a dark eggplant color to start with!


----------



## suenstyle (Feb 14, 2009)

i think its easier to spot a really cheap shoe than it is to distinguish between really nice shoes (unless you're talking about gucci, ferragamo, etc which you can spot a mile away). like mentioned by previous posters, square toed, plastic-looking shoes, clunky rubber soles are tell-tale signs of cheap shoes. 

the beauty of shoes like aldens and allen edmonds are that they are workhorses that can last for years (so they say, i haven't actually lived long enough to try out this theory) and are extremely comfortable because of the quality of the leather.

one thing i will say though is that once you have a pair of a certain shoe, you start to notice when other people wear the same one. so if you're looking to be able to recognize expensive shoes, you should just start buying them all up


----------



## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

More examples of shoes with nice patina:














































These are the same shoes - look athe differences in color with age:


















Alden indys (from user amlai):


----------



## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Shoes with corrected grain look like this after wear - there is creasing, but no patina ie no interesting variation in color with age or wear, since the shoes don't polish all that well. The shoes therefor look bland and uninteresting.


----------



## Stanley Ketchell (Dec 12, 2008)

Sorry, but a lot of these pictures of 'patination' are just pictures of clapped out old shoes only fit for gardening. Perhaps the poster ought to re-read The Emperor's New Clothes. 

Having said that, there is such a thing as a patina but it does not mean dirty, scratched and scuffed.


----------



## koi (Oct 10, 2008)

I agree what has written SRIVATS.
A good shoe is adapted to your foot, it improves with passing of the time (having cure of it clearly).
The natural shine instead depends from the type of leather: Cordovan is a fat leather and enough little in order to make to shine it, the calfskin is porous it needs of more shoepolish, the good calfskin is resistant and flexible, if this has too many folds or crease it is not good.
If the shoes are too much economic they have sure an industrial construction but this doesn't mean that they are less resistant (I produce handmade shoes but for work I wear Cult shoes







)


----------



## JayGatsby (Mar 30, 2009)

*Grandfather's advice*

My now 98-year old grandfather sold high-end men's shoes for over sixty-five years (from 1930 to around 1995). He owned two stores for 40 of those years, and had quite a few well-heeled (pun intended) customers from out-of-town who would make a special trip just to see him.

Although the question was how to spot cheap shoes someone else is wearing, the following advice my grandfather gave me when growing up still stands:


Leather upper should be smooth and consistent with a fine grain.
Leather upper should have minimum blemishes and also barely touched-up with any artificial color/sealants.
Insoles should be made from leather, which will make them durable and prevents unnecessary foot odor because it allows the foot to breathe and absorb perspiration.
The lining should be smooth at the folds around the seams and edges (needless to say, it should also be stitched, not glued).
The outside stitching should be as inconspicuous as possible, and be concealed from the top to the bottom of the dress shoes.
Stitching along the soles should be well-hidden under the channels cut within the soles.
Heels should be layered with leather and nailed together with brass pins.
As a final note, don't buy a pair of dress shoes based solely (pun not intended) on the brand. Many brands, such as Florsheim Imperials, used to be well-respected but are now of much lesser quality. From what I've heard, the current Imperials are made in India at the same factory as Bostonian. Vintage Imperials are of high quality if you can still find them on eBay (or in your father's/grandfather's closet).


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Stanley Ketchell said:


> Sorry, but a lot of these pictures of 'patination' are just pictures of clapped out old shoes only fit for gardening. Perhaps the poster ought to re-read The Emperor's New Clothes.
> 
> Having said that, there is such a thing as a patina but it does not mean dirty, scratched and scuffed.


Yes, we wouldn't want anybody to get the idea that we'd been in a position to own and wear proper shoes for more than a few months. Must preserve the illusion that all of our money is brand new and recently spent.


----------



## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Stanley Ketchell said:


> Sorry, but a lot of these pictures of 'patination' are just pictures of clapped out old shoes only fit for gardening. Perhaps the poster ought to re-read The Emperor's New Clothes.
> 
> Having said that, there is such a thing as a patina but it does not mean dirty, scratched and scuffed.


Agreed.

Here's a good example of patina (on the cap, at least.)


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Stanley Ketchell said:


> Sorry, but a lot of these pictures of 'patination' are just pictures of clapped out old shoes only fit for gardening...


Is that a fact? Which ones?


----------



## Stanley Ketchell (Dec 12, 2008)

Orsini said:


> Is that a fact? Which ones?


 Well in post 9 the wingtips below Mr. Rotten's shoes have a nice color and were probably good shoes once, but are now worn-out. The pair below that are just about respectable. The worst ones on this page are the brown bluchers below the split-toes. These are mottled and misshapen.

Many of the others actually have no patination at all, but are just rather boring and nerdy and badly cleaned work boots.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Stanley Ketchell said:


> Well in post 9 the wingtips below Mr. Rotten's shoes have a nice color and were probably good shoes once, but are now worn-out. The pair below that are just about respectable. The worst ones on this page are the brown bluchers below the split-toes. These are mottled and misshapen.
> 
> Many of the others actually have no patination at all, but are just rather boring and nerdy and badly cleaned work boots.


Thank you. I wanted to see if you could come up with anything specific...


----------



## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

Stanley Ketchell said:


> Sorry, but a lot of these pictures of 'patination' are just pictures of clapped out old shoes only fit for gardening. Perhaps the poster ought to re-read The Emperor's New Clothes.
> 
> Having said that, there is such a thing as a patina but it does not mean dirty, scratched and scuffed.


Hmmm? Agreed huh? No scratches, no scuffs....


JibranK said:


> Agreed.
> Here's a good example of patina (on the cap, at least.)


Zoiks! 
It looks like Scooby Doo had those shoes baked with his Scooby Snacks.


----------



## Stanley Ketchell (Dec 12, 2008)

Patination also doesn't mean either:

1. I have only one shoe brush for all colors.

2. I frequently whitewash my outside lavatory in my shoes and couldn't be bothered to clean them afterwards.


----------



## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

Liquidus said:


> When you're looking at shoes that somebody else is wearing (assuming you have not seen it before), how do you tell if they're good or not? My friend tells me he bought some cheap black dress shoes from Walmart and gets compliments on them...


The answer is that you can't always tell. Even within the same manufacturer.
For example, I own a pair of vintage Johnston Murphy's Crown Aristocraft George Town II black cap toes. 
That's J&Ms top of the line shoes that were of the highest quality. 
You could put those next to a pair of their cheaper shoes Melton/Optimo black cap toes that are less than half the price and would have a difficult time telling them apart.

*Dress shoes don't wear badges like cars, so it's possible to pass a pair of $75 shoes for $1200 bespoke. 
But you'll never mistake a Rolls Phantom Convertible Coupe for a Chrysler Sebring Convertible.*

That's a good one. I should write that down.


----------



## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Stanley Ketchell said:


> Sorry, but a lot of these pictures of 'patination' are just pictures of clapped out old shoes only fit for gardening. Perhaps the poster ought to re-read The Emperor's New Clothes.
> 
> Having said that, there is such a thing as a patina but it does not mean dirty, scratched and scuffed.


I respectfully disagree. Except maybe one or two, I don't think any of the shoes I posted are that bad (i.e fit *only* for gardening). They maybe old, but old does not been unwearable.

Perhaps you can post a few pics of shoes that you think have good patina.

And oh btw, Pince Charles' shoes posted above do *NOT* look good.


----------



## PocketTriangle (Apr 2, 2009)

srivats said:


> These are the same shoes - look athe differences in color with age:


Thanks for posting these pictures. I like how the older shoes reflect light in a more interesting way than the younger one. I think you've changed my attitude towards shoes completely. I used to think of shoe polishing as a chore, mainly done the day before a job interview or a date, but now I can't wait to start polishing my shoes and get a patina started.

BTW, do black shoes get a patina? My best pair of shoes is a pair of black loafers, and I want to have something to aspire to as I polish them.


----------



## GreenPlastic (Jan 27, 2009)

PocketTriangle said:


> BTW, do black shoes get a patina? My best pair of shoes is a pair of black loafers, and I want to have something to aspire to as I polish them.


Black shoes don't really develop a patina with age, but they do develop what can only be described as "character." By that I mean an almost indescribable element of finely curated age, such as small creases and such. But never much of a patina in my experience. And that's probably for the best. Black shoes were meant to be black, after all. Brown shoes grow more interesting as they patinate, but black shoes are supposed to be pure black.


----------



## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

PocketTriangle said:


> Thanks for posting these pictures. I like how the older shoes reflect light in a more interesting way than the younger one. I think you've changed my attitude towards shoes completely. I used to think of shoe polishing as a chore, mainly done the day before a job interview or a date, but now I can't wait to start polishing my shoes and get a patina started.


Glad to be of help. I really enjoy polishing my shoes. Like antique furniture, well maintained and well worn worn leather shoes are a pleasure to look at and use.



GreenPlastic said:


> Black shoes don't really develop a patina with age, but they do develop what can only be described as "character." By that I mean an almost indescribable element of finely curated age, such as small creases and such. But never much of a patina in my experience. And that's probably for the best. Black shoes were meant to be black, after all. Brown shoes grow more interesting as they patinate, but black shoes are supposed to be pure black.


+1. Well said.


----------



## jauburn (Jun 15, 2008)

srivats said:


> Compliments don't mean a thing. What is *most* important is how comfortable your shoes are , and the life you get out of the pair of shoes. This is all you should worry about.
> 
> A good leather shoe should have (in my opinion):
> 
> ...


Those are all gorgeous shoes.


----------



## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

Here is one more from *DocHolliday*:


----------



## wetnose (Mar 7, 2009)

An example of patina applied by the manufacturer:

https://www.saint-crispins.com/e_pret/images27.html


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

wetnose said:


> An example of patina applied by the manufacturer:
> 
> https://www.saint-crispins.com/e_pret/images27.html


These are some very good looking shoes, but the website does not seem to have any prices listed. I will take that as a bad omen...


----------



## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

if it's bicycle toed, it's cheap


----------



## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

srivats said:


> For instance, here are some very, very nice shoes from the daily footwear thread:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





jauburn said:


> Those are all gorgeous shoes.


Those vintage 1967 Allen Edmonds "Dickson" shoes are the best.
The owner has good taste.

Oh, they're mine.:icon_smile_big:


----------



## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

omairp said:


> if it's bicycle toed, it's cheap


Hmmm? Be careful. Them is fightin' words. My shoes aint cheap.








Chestnut Burnished Calf









Black Custom Calf









Chili Burnished Calf

Allen Edmonds "Hillcrest"
Four eye blucher
*bicycle* front stitching
double oak soles.

And they aint cheap.


----------



## TheEarl (Jul 19, 2008)

I walked into a PayLess one day, and there was a pair of loafers that, on first glance, looked rather nice, and out of place in such a store...then I realized that the soles were not only rubber, but PAINTED to look like leather.


----------



## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

srivats said:


> Here is one more from *DocHolliday*:


Those poor shoes have been through more than their fair share of suffering, so I'm glad to see them posted here.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

DocHolliday said:


> Those poor shoes have been through more than their fair share of suffering, so I'm glad to see them posted here.


I like those slacks.

Good to see you back. You are my idol for shopping.

Incidentally, if you don't mind me asking, approximately what percentage of your online purchases, based on count, would you say that you return?


----------

