# Best (Affordable) Car to Fix Up?



## MarkfromMD (Nov 5, 2008)

Does anyone have any good ideas for a nice classic car to fix up? I am looking for something that is affordable (read cheap). Old Porsche 911's are always great but aren't within my budget at this time. Porsche 944's are out also as although the cars are cheap, the insurance is a little on the high side (read broke college student). 

Thanks in advance,
Mark


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*I had a 1972 Opel GT*

I'd say BMW 2002. Can be bought cheap, are simple to work on and parts are in decent supply. Very reliable for the time. Insurance should be a non-issue as it's more fun than fast.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I suspect that you are looking for a European car; therefore, my suggestion may not even be in the ball park, but my vote goes to just about any Ford Mustang out there. Even the new ones are definitely "old school", which means easy to work on. The aftermarket for parts is unbelievable and there is no shortage of books and magazines devoted to repairing, restoring, hopping up, etc. these cars.

Cruiser


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2005)

1992 -1995 Mercedes 300E (e320 for 94,95) in sedan, coupe or wagon. Bullet proof drivetrains, fun to drive, quick, fairly low on maintenance. The last really reliable Mercedes.
[email protected]


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

That depends on your idea of affordable. The upfront cost of a 57 Chevy is high these days but the cost of repairs and better yet complete overhauls are dirt cheap and really easy. Also you might get all of your money back when you sell (after the recession that is).
Early Mercedes are found for reasonable prices but parts are expensive. However once fixed they tend to run forever. Thus repeat repairs are minimal.
If you want the cheapest overall (but terrible polluters) get an early Dodge with a slant six. Up front cost is next to nothing, repairs are simple and you can drive it to death then walk away from it once it eventually dies. 
You have to decide the priority of cost up front or costs along the way.


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## epb (Nov 22, 2008)

Too bad the 944 is out. I owned a 1983 911 targa, 928S and 944 once and the 944 was my favorite. 


With that chioce out, I'd look for an E30 3-series BMW (1985-1992), maybe even a convertible. Make sure the body is solid and it should be fairly cheap to fix up and run, and they're also fun to drive. The 2002 is a nice car, but those cars from the 70s start rusting is someone in the next state waters his lawn.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Country Irish said:


> If you want the cheapest overall (but terrible polluters) get an early Dodge with a slant six.


I had one back in the late 70's and that thing was virtually indestructible, the motor that is. :icon_smile:

https://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0014te4.gif

Cruiser


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

"I had one back in the late 70's and that thing was virtually indestructible, the motor that is."

Yep!
Those things eroded from the outside inward. It would be a perfect drive train with no car left around it. They knew how to build them back then. I even had a 67 Chrysler 300 with a 440 Interceptor crate engine that was the same. Good for well in excess of 140 mph on a continued basis without a complaint...but the body gave out.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

They all sound like reasonable suggestions depending on your budget and your skills. In general the older the car, the easier it is to work on, but the more chance of body rot and other expensive to repair conditions will exist. 

Parts for Ford, Chevy, and Mopars, especially the first two are probably the cheapest and most plentiful. On the other hand, jobs that you can not do yourself, such as paint, bodywork, upholstery, chrome plating, and machine work (I am assuming you can't) will cost about the same for low value car as a high value car.

I suggest that you do a very detailed analysis of the costs involved in any project car. It is often cheaper to buy a car that someone else has restored than to do it yourself.

If you enjoy busting your knuckles on an old car at night in a cold garage and if you have most of the skills and tools that are needed and you don't put a value on your time, it might be a fun project. Otherwise you might want to reconsider.

I don't mean to sound negative, but I have seen a number of these projects started that still have parts scattered about in a lot of baskets. 

Cheers, Jim.


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## El Captain (Nov 10, 2008)

If you want a reliable older car then look at a BMW E30. These are the 3-series models from 1982-1994. They are pretty much bullet proof especially if it is a 5-speed manual transmission. BMW really needed to hit a home run and they did with these cars by overengineering them. I have a 1986 325 and it runs like a top. This past summer I drove from Long Island to Toronto without out a problem. It was also ahead of its time with electronic features that are similar to a modern day car. My BMW has about 150,000 miles and among BMW E30 owners the engine is only broken in now. Yes you do have to maintain the car more often especially rubber parts because of age but it is still a timeless classic. It has sort of a cult following that I'm noticing as well. Sometimes I'm taken by surprise when people ask me about the car because to me its my everyday driver and its seems nothing special. Also you will find alot of help on the internet to fix the car if need be such as Roadfly.com. These cars to me are like that old pair of Cole Haans when the were really special unlike now. BMW does still produce great cars but they are not engineered like they used to. Just as Cole Haan makes an O.K. shoe for the masses now it is not similiar to what the company used to produce.


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## El Captain (Nov 10, 2008)

Also I have to agree the BMW 2002 is nice to have but the E30's are now entering the classic catagory and are worth considering. Also remember that in 1987 there was the release of the first M3 in the U.S. so it has alot going for it.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

El Captain said:


> If you want a reliable older car then look at a BMW E30. These are the 3-series models from 1982-1994. They are pretty much bullet proof especially if it is a 5-speed manual transmission. BMW really needed to hit a home run and they did with these cars by overengineering them. I have a 1986 325 and it runs like a top. This past summer I drove from Long Island to Toronto without out a problem. It was also ahead of its time with electronic features that are similar to a modern day car. My BMW has about 150,000 miles and among BMW E30 owners the engine is only broken in now. Yes you do have to maintain the car more often especially rubber parts because of age but it is still a timeless classic. It has sort of a cult following that I'm noticing as well. Sometimes I'm taken by surprise when people ask me about the car because to me its my everyday driver and its seems nothing special. Also you will find alot of help on the internet to fix the car if need be such as Roadfly.com. These cars to me are like that old pair of Cole Haans when the were really special unlike now. BMW does still produce great cars but they are not engineered like they used to. Just as Cole Haan makes an O.K. shoe for the masses now it is not similiar to what the company used to produce.


I agree, they are one of the best cars ever made. The interiors of those E30 BMWs are just excellent.


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## ddillas (Oct 13, 2008)

*I'm a big Audi fan*

Either a a 1990-1991 Audi 90 Quattro 20V or a 1990-1991 Audi 90 Coupe Quattro (often referred to as a CQ). Either will be in the $4k-10k range depending on condition and availability where you may live. If in the upper Midwest... Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois... or North East... Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Penn... they may be numerous and a bit cheaper... either is fun to drive... the Coupe a bit on the rare side, only 1800 ever imported. They have 2.4 liter 20 valve 5 cylinder engines that put out 165hp stock and can go much higher... and of course the quattro AWD... All will have leather heated seats, air bags, ABS, automatic climate control... and probably a trip computer... these were the top of the line and and comparable to high end BMW 3-series of the same era... only more exclusive!! Get one... you'll love it!!!

Yeah... I have a black 1990 90 quattro 20V that is a bit tricked out myself... engine, wheels, suspension, brakes, audio and many other things.
:icon_smile_wink:


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Anything made by Toyota.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

epb said:


> Too bad the 944 is out. I owned a 1983 911 targa, 928S and 944 once and the 944 was my favorite.
> 
> With that chioce out, I'd look for an E30 3-series BMW (1985-1992), maybe even a convertible. Make sure the body is solid and it should be fairly cheap to fix up and run, and they're also fun to drive. The 2002 is a nice car, but those cars from the 70s start rusting is someone in the next state waters his lawn.


Agreed on all counts. The E30s were built to last. I own an 89 -- runs like a top and in mint condition. You present a bit of a dilemma. The older the car, the more problems you will have, but the simpler (i.e., easier to "fix up") they will be. From the early-mid 80s on cars became increasingly computer driven and harder to fix, but more reliable -- actually far more reliable. There may be no perfect balance, but I'd take reliability and clearcoat paint (terrific rust protection) over ease to repair, on balance. But your priorities may differ.


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## epb (Nov 22, 2008)

Mike Petrik said:


> Agreed on all counts. The E30s were built to last. I own an 89 -- runs like a top and in mint condition. You present a bit of a dilemma. The older the car, the more problems you will have, but the simpler (i.e., easier to "fix up") they will be.


I like the E30s because they hit what I think will be a classic car sweet-spot for European cars: after good rust-proofing and fuel injection systems became common, but before OBD and other computer-related complexities. The first 2 things to do with any car from the 80s is replace all air hoses (intake, evap, PCV, ICV, etc) and clean all contacts for relays and fuses. Air leaks and corroded contacts cause a good 95% of their problems.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> 1992 -1995 Mercedes 300E (e320 for 94,95) in sedan, coupe or wagon. Bullet proof drivetrains, fun to drive, quick, fairly low on maintenance. The last really reliable Mercedes.
> [email protected]


I, too, vote in favor or Mercedes. You should be able to find a really fine example from the early '80s through the early '90s for very reasonable money. The biggest problem with them is rust! For some reason, Mercedes seemed to be unable to unlock that particular equation on their older cars, so it's necessary to carefully inspect them. For bullet-proof, go with a 300 diesel; I had a 1978 300CD diesel coupe with over 750,000 miles, got over 30 MPG and I would still be driving it if the body had not rusted off the frame.

Other than M-Bs, I personally like Porsche 928s, the flagship of the line in the mid-'80s, and early examples in excellent condition can be had for less than $5000. They are superb cars, IMO, with the caveat that you should be mechanically inclined to own one, since they can be breathtakingly expensive to repair.


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## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

MarkfromMD said:


> Does anyone have any good ideas for a nice classic car to fix up? I am looking for something that is affordable (read cheap). Old Porsche 911's are always great but aren't within my budget at this time. Porsche 944's are out also as although the cars are cheap, the insurance is a little on the high side (read broke college student).
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Mark


AMCs. Gremlin or Pacer. Preferably with original green paint. Don't come much cheaper or easier to fix.

Buzz


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## Arnold Gingrich fan (Aug 8, 2008)

Get a Mercedes diesel sedan from the late 1980s. They can easily be fixed up to accept vegetable oil as fuel. A friend of mine did this; he gets the used vegetable oil free from a local restaurant. For the past three years, he hasn't spent a penny on fuel, and the car works great.

.


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## The Deacon (Nov 25, 2006)

*Lexus LS 400*

These were viewed as the best built Toyodas(called Celsior in Japan until just a few years ago) and very little goes wrong on them as they were incredibly overengineered to compete with the S-class. Model years 90-94 had smallish brakes and the display flickers out on them. 95-97 had AC compressor issues and a specific electrical issue.1998-00 are completely bullet proof unless you have air suspension (expensive replacement) and can be had for <13k generally.They're born highway runners and have been known to pass 350,000-500,000+ if maintained. maintenance for my 00 is once every two year timing belt change(at 120,000 intervals) and 14k synthetic oil changes. The car runs smooth as silk, no issues or gremlins. I bought it Dec 04 at auction with 69k miles for $17k and I'm now approaching 260k. Just my two pence.:icon_smile_wink:


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## SlowE30 (Mar 18, 2008)

My vote, obviously, is for an E30. I own an '87 325e (the Slow variety). I would never bother with an older car unless I did all my own work (unless you want a honda or toyota), but it sounds like that's what you're out to do.


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## TheGunther (Nov 7, 2008)

Two Letters: MG


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

TheGunther said:


> Two Letters: MG


Surely you jest! Any MG in decent condition runs well into 5 figures; those which are "project" cars will cost you that much in repairs.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I'm currently working on a "project car" myself, although I may be investing more than the OP intends. I wanted a convertible so I picked up a used six cylinder 2007 Mustang convertible in near perfect condition for $14,000. I've added a Ford Racing cold air induction and put a 93 octane high performance tune on it. An 8.8" rear end with 4:10 gears and a traction loc limited slip differential. Ford Racing true dual exhausts with Mustang Bullitt mufflers. Front and rear sway bars and light weight aluminum drive shaft. For less than $18,000 I have a beautiful convertible that is much faster than one might suspect.

This winter's mods include Italian leather seats from Katzkins and a powerful sound system.

And finally, next spring I'm thinking about an Eaton supercharger that will boost this puppy to about 330 hp. I'm still mulling this over since this is about a $4,000 investment. I keep asking myself, I'll be 60 years old; do I really need 330 hp? All I started out wanting was a convertible. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Cruiser said:


> I'm currently working on a "project car" myself, although I may be investing more than the OP intends. I wanted a convertible so I picked up a used six cylinder 2007 Mustang convertible in near perfect condition for $14,000. I've added a Ford Racing cold air induction and put a 93 octane high performance tune on it. An 8.8" rear end with 4:10 gears and a traction loc limited slip differential. Ford Racing true dual exhausts with Mustang Bullitt mufflers. Front and rear sway bars and light weight aluminum drive shaft. For less than $18,000 I have a beautiful convertible that is much faster than one might suspect.
> 
> This winter's mods include Italian leather seats from Katzkins and a powerful sound system.
> 
> ...


Why didn't you just buy a GT?


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## Crownship (Mar 17, 2008)

Andy said:


> Anything made by Toyota.


Ahh.. great minds think alike. 
Can't go wrong with a Lexus product. But they're not old enough to be classic and it's not likely you'll find any broke.:icon_smile_big:

My question to the OP is why buy something that's going to take time and money to fix?
Buy an old Toyota that runs and then graduate to a Lexus when funds permit.
If you ever make big money and buy a Bentley Cont. GT or Rolls Phantom Coupe, always keep a Lexus in your garage.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> Why didn't you just buy a GT?


A couple of reasons. First of all I wanted a convertible and a GT convertible would have cost more than I will have invested in this car, AND for less money my car will be faster than a stock GT. I'm already just as quick as a stock pre-2005 GT even without the supercharger.

Second, I didn't want a cookie cutter GT that looks like all of the other GTs out there. For example, I don't care for spoilers and fake hood scoops. Sure, I could have modified a GT like I am the six, but the beginning cost of a GT convertible would have required much more money than I am willing to invest. I want a hot rod that I, not Detroit, put together; the way we did it back in the old days, although I will admit that we didn't use superchargers in the old days.

The only real downside to the six banger is the absence of that deep growl that those extra two cylinders give you.

My affinity for the Mustang developed after I owned one of the original 1964 1/2 models when I was in high school. I bagged a lot of groceries to pay for that car. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Mannix (Nov 24, 2008)

If you're looking for a classic car I'd have to say a Lincoln Mark III, they were made from 1968(1/2) to 1971. I have a bias for Lincoln's, but they are great cars.


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## NoPleats (Sep 28, 2008)

I don't know your goals for the finished, "Fixed-up" car? 

Budget drag racing? Early Chevy II/Nova or Ford Falcon, Mercury Meteor or Comet or the like. Mosat of those can be adapted to run larger-displacement engines that, since they're in a lightweight car, don't have to be built as stout as smaller ones. This'll give you good power with some durability.

Street Cruiser? Take your pick. The big old early Caddys are pretty cool sometimes. (Even a hearse). Big Chevy Impalas, Ford Torinos, mid-1970s Corvettes, and on and on.

Like to be a Eurodude? BMW 2002s can be had inexpensively. I've always had a soft spot for the first generation, non-Super Beetle VW Beetles. Karman Ghias are a nice, "dare to be different" choice, too. A late 1960s-early 1970s Ford Cortina, if you can find one, would be a fun project. 

Browse around. I'm sure yuu'll find something to strike your fancy. But if this is your first project, I believe I'd stick with things that have a large aftermarket/restoration parts market and a large enthusiast base to hook up with for technical help, espirit de corps and, in a worst-case scenario, to possibly purchase your aborted project.

And don't do it thinking you're going to make money. Go into it knowing you're going to be throwing cash, time, blood, sweat and tears right down the toilet. 

Have fun.


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## SlowE30 (Mar 18, 2008)

Karmann Ghias are getting expensive. I've restored several and still have one at my Dad's place. Fun, but nothing I'd want to drive on a daily basis. 

After all the work to fully restore them (I do my own body and paint work), I refused to subject them to daily use/being parked outside for fear of them returning to their previous states. That worrying took away a lot of the fun. 

That's why there's a '68 bug in my Dad's garage waiting for me to finish resurecting it. A bug isn't so rare, and there's less to worry about if it gets dented or starts to re-rust. 

My advice comes from my experience: For someone in your position, get something managable (that you don't have to leave in pieces at someone elses garage when you up and move to Alaska), that you can see yourself driving on a regular basis (WHILE working on it), that you won't overly worry about getting scratched when you're "done" (but you'll never be done).


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## NoPleats (Sep 28, 2008)

SlowE30 said:


> Karmann Ghias are getting expensive.


Really? I had no idea but it makes sense now that I think about it. (Scarcity and all.) I've been a Corvette guy for the longest time and I'd actually steer someone away from them. The Y BOdies have lots of model-specific parts and you pay a "Corvette Premium" on most other things unless you have a Hollander and tell they guy you want it for a Camaro or, better yet, a Caprice.

I'd sure like to get my hands on another Beetle, though. A 6V+, white 1964 bug with the brownish-red vinyl interior complete with an uncut dash sporting a radio delete plate and the blazing 40-horse 1200 engine. It's a "first car" thing, you know? :icon_smile_wink:


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## SlowE30 (Mar 18, 2008)

Actually, most old aircooled VW's are getting up there in price, Karmann Ghias are just ahead of the curve and their parts are more expensive. You can't just pick up a solid, running beetle for $800-$1000 like you could 6-8 years ago. Luckily, most bug parts are still cheap due to their long production run in south/central America, if not good quality.

I'd suggest trolling the grassroots motorsports forum for ideas and inspiration. Some of those guys are really hardcore. Their answer to this kind of question is generally "Miata" or "E30", and they're generally right.


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