# What's Happening to Robert Talbott?



## ROI (Aug 1, 2004)

Here's an article from DNR about the new direction at Robert Talbot. I've edited it down to the parts that seem likely to be of the most interest in the Trad forum.

COPYRIGHT 2008 Fairchild Publications, Inc.
Byline: Gillian Koenig, Maise Wilhelm 
Richard Cohen has big plans for Robert Talbott. Since taking the helm of the California-based neckwear and shirtmaker last August, the former Zegna exec has been busy repositioning the product-driven company as an American luxury lifestyle brand. Cohen aims to double Talbott's business-estimated at $50 million annually-in the next two to three years with expanded product categories, additional retail stores, improved distribution channels and a new multimedia advertising campaign-a first for the previously discreet brand. 
"Robert Talbott is a sleeping jewel-one which we are slowly awakening," says Cohen. "We are going to do it with product first, marketing second, but, most important of all-especially in the men's industry-is relationships." 
And if there is one thing Cohen knows, it's the men's market. When he signed on as Zegna's chief executive officer for North America in 1986, it was a family-run business, much like the Robert Talbott he inherited last year. By taking a family company like Zegna and running it like something else, Cohen transformed the Italian brand into a powerhouse men's luxury label, growing Zegna's U.S. business from $13 million when he joined the company to $200 million when he left 16 years later. His approach to Talbott, which up until now has been well-known for its understated classics-like the luxe Estate tie collection and Seven-Fold Tie-will likely be similar. Although ties currently represent 50 percent of Talbott's volume, Cohen says there will be a natural decrease in that representation as the brand "gets into the tailored clothing business and higher price points." Dress shirts will now compete in a price point of $250 and higher and have been slimmed down and shortened. Under Cohen's guidance, Talbott has also added an outerwear collection, is expanding its women's business and is scheduled to launch activewear as well as clothing over the next few seasons. "I'm not ready to announce anything yet, but we will end up with a complete lifestyle collection of Robert Talbott in the next 18 months," says Cohen. 
But perhaps nowhere are changes to Robert Talbott's traditional format more evident than in its enhanced distribution strategy. As Cohen strives to grow the brand and accommodate an expanding market, larger accounts are becoming increasingly important to the iconic men's label, whose business was largely built upon relationships with smaller specialty stores. 
"When I first got to Robert Talbott, someone could buy one tie-Mr. Talbott never wanted to say no to anyone," says Cohen. "But there comes a time, 50 years later, when you still don't want to say no but it might be a bit more cost-prohibitive." Talbott recently started doing business with Saks Fifth Avenue, is currently the largest supplier of men's shirts and ties to Nordstrom, and is hoping to start working with Neiman Marcus. 
The emerging strategy has fueled speculation and concern among some specialty stores-many of whom have been doing business with the company since it was founded by Robert Talbott Sr. in 1950-that new minimum-order requirements will cut them out altogether. Word has circulated that unless stores are placing orders of $10,000 or more each season, they will not be given the Robert Talbott book, which is traditionally the place from which many specialty stores make their seasonal buys. "My sales reps were telling me that unless you buy a certain number of dollars, you have to pay for the book," said one retailer who did not want his name used. "Now, if you don't buy a certain amount, we're hearing you don't get the book." 
Cohen firmly discredits the rumors. "The minimums are significantly less than any others in the marketplace," says Cohen. "We believe to be a Robert Talbott customer you should have no problem buying a small amount of shirts and ties." Cohen would not disclose exactly what defines "a small amount," but was candid about his desire to focus on partners who have the ability to increase the brand's visibility. "As I branch out, obviously stores like Mitchells-the ones that have the capacity to help us- will become more important and rise to the top." 
Specialty retailers have called Cohen's new strategy everything from "informed" to "aggressive," and many said, from a brand-building perspective, the changes made sense. "All I want people to do is have some patience-there's a huge expectation," says Cohen. "Richard Cohen can't do these things in five minutes


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## KeithR (Sep 5, 2006)

What a shame.

I have quite a few Talbott ties and shirts. I'm already leaning towards ordering future ties from Sam Hober. This talk about "shorter" shirts and "activewear", along with their shift away from the smaller speciality stores where I do my local shopping, is quite disappointing.


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## cowboyjack (May 18, 2008)

It is the way of the world, but a certain sign that one is approaching old fart-ism when you are sure that things used to be better than they are now. hhhhhmmmm... is that not also a defining dimension of Trad-ism as well?


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

I generally consider Robert Talbott ties a great find because they are high quality and made in the USA. Because of this they are quite expensive, but that only makes finding them at Marshalls or The Rack or thrift shops more exciting. Because, like Southwick, they were the supplier rather than the "name" brand, it kind of felt like you had inside info too...

Unfortunately, when I read about an "enhanced distribution strategy" and that "to grow the brand and accommodate an expanding market, larger accounts are becoming increasingly important," I think "made in China" and Lauren-esque brand overexposure (i.e., endorsement deals with atheletes, hip-hop artists and celebrities or perhaps even a Robert Talbott line of fragrances at Macy's?).

Of course I guess every business has to grow, but can't a few remain oriented to a loyal, core group of customers?


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## wolfhound986 (Jun 30, 2007)

^^
My sentiments exactly, I would hate to see Robert Talbott turn into just another brand where quality is sacrificed for increased distribution. 

I won't be buying any of their ties if they're not made in the US like they are now. Being high quality and being made here is part of its appeal. We'll see.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

I have owned a fair number of Talbott ties over the years. Superb quality. I have become a fan of the Talbott ties from O'Connells. 3.5 inches and BB No. 1. I would be unfortunate if O'Connells would no longer be able to offer these.


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## JLAnderson (Jan 17, 2008)

*My sentiments exactly*



Cowtown said:


> I have owned a fair number of Talbott ties over the years. Superb quality. I have become a fan of the Talbott ties from O'Connells. 3.5 inches and BB No. 1. I would be unfortunate if O'Connells would no longer be able to offer these.


Add to that list Eljo's of Charlottesville. This is what happens when a new someone in charge looks at what are really works of art and sees only widgets. What's the matter with a company maintaining its current size and remaining healthy while remaining faithful to its roots?

This has happened to so many garment makers over the years. If they would just understand that there are indeed people who want to pay for quality and exclusivity.

Personally, I look on well made clothes as works of art, preserving the traditions of a time now long past. That's why I'm so fortunate to have found a small businessman in the West of England whose new company is trying to preserve the tradition of handmade suits, etc. made with woven-in-Great Britain tweeds and other cloths. I feel like I'm buying works of art, not just a jacket or suit, when I buy from Peter King.

It's that love of the traditional that folks like Robert Talbott's new CEO will never understand. They're only love with profits and expanded market share.

How truly sad.


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

JLAnderson said:


> [. . . ] They're only love with profits and expanded market share. [. . . .]


It's that golden calf thing all over again.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

bd79cc said:


> It's that golden calf thing all over again.


To mention nothing of the Golden Goose thing!  Time to blow out the brand on the path to destruction!


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

I'm glad I am well stocked with Talbott ties. Perhaps there will be in the future a certain cashe' to having "original" Talbotts. (pre Cohen)


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## zarathustra (Aug 24, 2006)

While understand the the sentiment and lament the potential loss of a quality supplier, I do pose a question to you gents.

With the various articles on the death of a tie, a presidential candidate who appears quite frequently w/o a tie, and the general lack of proper dress in America -- how are these companies supposed to survive with just a few customers?

I am the odd duck in my generation. I prefer BB, J.Press, braces, and the such (albeit with a little flair). Rarely do i find anyone who cares about Alden and Allen Edmonds. Even rarer are people my age in these stores. 

Meaning that the "target" or rather the true consumer is an older generation who still understands the value of proper dressing. What happens as this generations grows older and ceases to exist or stops buying? My fear is that all of these companies will become extinct. 

I think the goal of these companies should be to attract new blood, but to do such in a way that does not eliminate the core customer.

How this is best done -- I am not sure.


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

Edited for content:



zarathustra said:


> With the various articles on the death of a tie, a presidential candidate who appears quite frequently w/o a tie, and the general lack of proper dress in America -- how are these companies supposed to survive with just a few customers?
> 
> I am the odd duck in my generation. I prefer BB, J.Press, braces, and the such (albeit with a little flair). Rarely do i find anyone who cares about Alden and Allen Edmonds. Even rarer are people my age in these stores.
> 
> ...


First off, I am younger too, but I take issue with "articles about the death of the tie" and that sort of thing. Remember that those features articles are written by reporters who would probably rather wear jeans and t-shirts to work each day anyway and wouldn't be too sad to see ties go. Reporters often act like they're _the_ source of knowledge in the universe, but many are actually less educated and more ignorant than you'd expect.

I know many people my age who wear ties every day to their jobs, and a few who use them as fashion accessories. In general, I've found people from my generation (late gen-X/early gen-y) don't have an issue with wearing decent clothing. If anybody deserves the blame, it's baby boomers. Business casual happened on their watch, and they generally failed to instill good sartorial values in their kids.

If companies like Robert Talbott want to survive pandering isn't the answer. They need to show a new generation that wearing nice clothes isn't a chore, that they can be comfortable and that the experience can be quite satisfying.


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## KeithR (Sep 5, 2006)

Zot! said:


> ...If anybody deserves the blame, it's baby boomers. Business casual happened on their watch, and they generally failed to instill good sartorial values in their kids.


This would make an interesting, if heated, thread on its own. I think there's enough blame to go around to cover all generations, including the so-called greatest generation that apparently failed to pass the legacy on to the baby-boomers.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Zot! said:


> Edited for content:
> 
> First off, I am younger too, but I take issue with "articles about the death of the tie" and that sort of thing. Remember that those features articles are written by reporters who would probably rather wear jeans and t-shirts to work each day anyway and wouldn't be too sad to see ties go. Reporters often act like they're _the_ source of knowledge in the universe, but many are actually less educated and more ignorant than you'd expect.
> 
> I know many people my age who wear ties every day to their jobs, and a few who use them as fashion accessories. In general, I've found people from my generation (late gen-X/early gen-y) don't have an issue with wearing decent clothing. If anybody deserves the blame, it's baby boomers. Business casual happened on their watch, and they generally failed to instill good sartorial values in their kids.


Place the blame where you will, but it's still happening. Too many recent college grads show up at interviews in a shirt and tie but no coat. And that's for an _interview_. I don't think the media's documenting a fictitious phenomenon. While the tie is not truly "dying" -- as in facing immediate extinction -- in many industries it's no longer the standard. And that's a reality smaller retailers have to face.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

A jewel? Yes. However I never considered RT to be sleeping. I hope they don't start messing with Mr. Hansen; as I could never forgive that no matter how much I like their products.


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## Zot! (Feb 18, 2008)

KeithR said:


> This would make an interesting, if heated, thread on its own. I think there's enough blame to go around to cover all generations, including the so-called greatest generation that apparently failed to pass the legacy on to the baby-boomers.


I think they passed it on as best they could. But the "greatest generation" had its own defects I won't go into, other than to say watching _Mad Men_ will give you a rough idea...

I just think the baby-boomers deserve most of the blame because I believe that around the time business casual started taking off, there was a little voice inside them from their hippy days saying "right-on, man!" Gen x-ers and gen y-ers might have followed their lead because, in the case of the former their parents were too obsessed with their careers to teach them better, and with the latter their parents were too busy saying whatever they did was "special" and "unique" to chastise them.

But now I'm _really_ generalizing, and it's getting a bit away from the clothes. I will just add in parting that all our presence on this thread shows that sometimes we have more in common with folks from other generations than we do with members of our own.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

How niche is Talbott these days, anyway? They're ubiquitous at men's shops plus Nordstrom. They do make nice ties, but I don't necessarily view them as unique. I'd say it's likely they will continue to produce some nice things, but if they get too big to service the small shops then another Audrey Talbott somewhere will start making ties on her kitchen table.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Zot!!!*

Zot

I was wearing Talbot, probably 20 years before you were born! Leave the Boomers out of this. Am a proud, old hippy. Who did inhale by the way!
Who likes fine clothing!
I am tired of apologizing to all of you for the freaking mess we have created!

I am sorry my friend for the freaking mess we have created , lol

Nice day


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

I too, was confused about the "Shorter Shirts." I hope they don't mean that literally as I am long waisted and get many of my shirts made solely to get a longer body. I suspect that the article got that wrong and that what was meant was about inventory.

I have been quite happy with Talbott shirts at $165 and on sale for $100 or so. At $250 it will compete with my MTM shirts.

I do, however, dearly love the Talbott Best of Class ties. Great knots and available at retail and free shipping and no tax from Hansenclothing.com in both 59 and 62 inch with seven folds being MTM.

In fact I probably collect Talbott ties with the same verve I collect shoes.

I think this guy did a great job with the Zegna line, so he probably will repeat with Talbott.

Perry


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## anselmo1 (Dec 22, 2006)

The Robert Talbott line will probably be made and assembled in Red China to maximize profits as well as the bottom line. Look what Van Heusen did with the G-9 Baracuta jacket back in the 1980's for starters! Took a great jacket which was made in Great Britain and produced thousands of sub grade product until customers refused to buy them.


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## Faulkner (Jun 24, 2006)

Wow. Talbott will be a great "luxury lifestyle" brand, I am sure. Gone, I guess, are the days when the fella who's been ordering my Talbotts will order up 2 or 3, just for me. Too bad.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

AlanC said:


> How niche is Talbott these days, anyway? They're ubiquitous at men's shops plus Nordstrom. They do make nice ties, but I don't necessarily view them as unique. I'd say it's likely they will continue to produce some nice things, but if they get too big to service the small shops *then another Audrey Talbott somewhere will start making ties on her kitchen table*.


My 'go to' bows are cut here

https://bowties.com/index.cfm/p/pages.about-us.htm


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## mack11211 (Oct 14, 2004)

Wasn't that article published half a year ago?


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## TommyDawg (Jan 6, 2008)

*Robert Talbott Studio*

All this talk about Robert Talbott reminded me of a question I have been meaning to ask. I saw some nice ties at local Marshalls that were "Robert Talbott Studio". Whats the word on this particular line? I am not that familiar with Robert Talbott anyway, but not sure if this is their entry level line, or decent quality, or what. Any comments appreciated. 
Tom


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