# Herringbone blazer - color matching advice please



## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

I just purchased a Herringbone blazer this evening with bunch of Dockers slacks. Need some matching advice here.

Its a decent sportcoat.. definitely doesn't match the fit of a BB or Hickey Freeman jacket but I am trying to loose weight and don't want to invest hundreds of dollars in something that might be unusable in near future.

My camera phone pictures didn't come great so I am putting original links of the purchases. Please guide me on following in broad sense:

-Do these pants match with blazer? Can any of these be considered a neutral color? 
-What tie(s) go with this blazer?

Herringbone blazer (black/white) cashmere/silk/wool

https://www1.macys.com/shop/product...BRAND=Club Room&sp=1&spc=4&ruleId=66&slotId=1

Casual chinos - Plum Raisin

https://us.dockers.com/product/inde...kw=saturday&origkw=saturday&parentPage=search

Bungee Cord and Light Khaki

https://us.dockers.com/product/inde...p=2271557.15236996.15237016&parentPage=family

Rifle Green

https://us.dockers.com/product/inde...p=2271557.15236996.15237016&parentPage=family

I am guessing any shade of gray, charcoal or black slacks/chinos will work with this jacket. I was wondering if it can be mixed with other colors.


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

You said the jacket is a black and white herringbone. The jacket on your link is a brown jacket. The best trouser for a black/white herring bone will be a gray. A wine/burgundy tie - solid, foulard print, or club figure will compliment the jacket. For informal settings- a walk in the park, a visit to your local pub, a football game - jeans will work. The plum chino trouser will also work in that setting.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

You can select the colors on the link. There is a brown and black/white. I am trying to move away from 'shades of black theme'. Its a little restricting. Would brown herringbone work better?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

If you're blond or a redhead, a brown herringbone would be super. If your hair is dark, though, you're better off with greys and blues for the coat and then use your shirt/tie/pocket square/boutonniere as color points to brighten up the ensemble.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Oldsarge said:


> If you're blond or a redhead, a brown herringbone would be super. If your hair is dark, though, you're better off with greys and blues for the coat and then use your shirt/tie/pocket square/boutonniere as color points to brighten up the ensemble.


If you were talking about a very light tan - I might agree, but I dont see how the brown in the link is a color that is limited to a certain hair or skin color. Everyone looks good in medium brown IMO. Much more versatile than black and white


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

A minority point of view, I fear. Grey herringbone is, like navy blue, one of the essential colors in a gentleman's casual sport coat collection. The play of light over the contrasting threads is far more lively than that rather staid chocolate example and will go well with every available color of shirt or tie.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks Sarge. If such an essential garment, as you say, what other color slacks does it pair up with? Gray/black slacks are a little too limited of a choice. Need some more refinement here. (Gray herringone - black shoes only or depends on slacks?) 
I have light brown skintone and black hair. Didn't know how to match the brown herringbone without making the outfit look like a ghilly suit.

*Mrkleen, *I agree with versatality of medium brown but again it doesn't go with black or gray slacks, right?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

I agree with Sarge, in this case. The grey is much more versatile than that particular color of brown, though a lighter, more variegated Harris Tweed herringbone sport coat is a must, as well. The grey is a neutral and it can pair well with other neutrals (khaki, stone, navy) but I would avoid grey pants of any kind and black, to a lesser extent. It goes very well with bolder colored pants in both cool (bottle green, blue) and warm (burgundy, mustard) families. As for fabric/texture, I would prefer to pair it with something equally weighty in a contrasting weave. Twill, canvas, corduroy, moleskin, whipcord, even trad-forsaken denim can pair well. I would avoid smoother weaves like worsteds and poplins, though.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

As you say, pretty much any grey - and Dockers appear to have a decent selection. IMO you can also wear (dark) blue denim. Also, a pink shirt would go very well with that jacketl.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

An olive pair of trousers with walnut or burgundy shoes would go well. The same would be true with navy. With the former I would try for a yellow stripe or check shirt and with the latter pale blue or pink/peach. In either case a burgundy/wine grenadine tie would be perfect.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

I am extremely confused in different shades of khaki vs brown. Please give me a visual example here. Is it a neutral color or a shade of brown? I just don't know my colors. 
Likewise, I consider gray as a shade of black and don't mix it with anything brown. Ofcourse, I may be doing it wrong. 

Check shirt - I was looking at gingham red shirts at CT. Those can be paired nicely with black or khaki slacks, right? But with a herringbone pattern, wouldn't that be too busy?


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Rick Blaine said:


> I am extremely confused in different shades of khaki vs brown. Please give me a visual example here. Is it a neutral color or a shade of brown? I just don't know my colors.
> Likewise, I consider gray as a shade of black and don't mix it with anything brown. Ofcourse, I may be doing it wrong.
> 
> Check shirt - I was looking at gingham red shirts at CT. Those can be paired nicely with black or khaki slacks, right? But with a herringbone pattern, wouldn't that be too busy?


Don't wear black trousers other than with a dinner jacket.

I second the recommendation for khaki, the right sort of grey or olive with a grey herringbone jacket.

Gingham red checks would be inadvisable with this combination. Pale blue will always look good.

Grey and brown can be paired - for example, grey flannel trousers and an odd jacket in autumnal colours (including brown). Nothing wrong with that.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Sorry, I was thinking windowpane or tattersall check, not gingham.

The most neutral of colors goes by the name of 'taupe'. It is a blend of both grey and brown. Also called 'stone', sometimes. It goes with _everything_. If you're worried about compatibility, taupe is your go-to base for trousers. It's easy to find, too.

Grey or black _can_ go with brown but it depends on the brown. Definitely _not_ chocolate. Something along the lines of a brown paper bag or lighter can be made to work, especially if it tends toward the 'warm' (read reddish) end of the spectrum. If you're having trouble with color, the easiest solution is to down load a off the net. Any time you can draw a straight line across the wheel, those two colors are complimentary and will always go together, like yellow and purple, blue and orange, or green and red.

Now it gets more subtle. If you mix blue and orange you will get black and black added to white gets grey. However, how you mix the blue and the orange will vary the color of the black from cool (more blue) to warm (more orange). Just a little blue into the orange plus some white gets you a warm tan. Yes, I know it's confusing. I have a MA in art and there are whole shelves full of books written on color theory. Don't sweat it. Use neutrals for the coat and trousers and fit the shirt/tie/pocket square together without matching the square and the tie. Having done something as simple as that and you are already an order of magnitude more sophisticated than the normal guy in jeans.

And there is nothing wrong with dark denim jeans, either.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Having a grey herringbone jacket in the collection, it is difficult for me to find grey slacks with enough contrast into make them go well together. Navy works.

If I had it to do over again I'd go Brown. (The jacket that is)


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I would never wear grey slacks with a grey herringbone coat. Good call, that man. Blue, tan, olive or taupe are better choices.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ Light grey herringbone worsted jacket + charcoal speckled flannel trousers.

Black and white herringbone tweed jacket + dove grey non-speckled worsted flannel trousers.

But depends on the exact colours, so not for beginners (not suggesting contributors here advising against this combination are beginners, just a note of caution!)


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> S It is a blend of both grey and brown. Also called 'stone', sometimes.


Sarge, I think "taupe" is the right name, in this case. Stone (sometimes called "cement" or "oyster") is a very light, almost white, tan color.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

^ Most often that is true and a good rule of thumb. However, now and again I find taupe labeled stone. It's weird. It's wrong, but it happens. Go figure.:biggrin:


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

Okay, I am getting a little understanding of 'taupe'. But these slight variations in Dockers arsenal throw me off. Some of are neither olive or gray or dark brown... i thought it was an alien color. Turns out it was just taupe. 

Black pants - I need to understand why does AAAC crowd vote against it. Although it doesn't have too many variations but black itself goes with plenty... especially bright, solid colors. For ex - white, pink, light green. Or am I wrong here? 

Also, can I match these CT shirts with this jacket - red gingham, pink/navy stripes, attingham blue/white stripes. I tend to wear vertical stripes because I am heavyset. If these don't work with the refined sartorial sensibility, I will try to go with solids.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Rick Blaine said:


> Although it doesn't have too many variations but black itself goes with plenty... especially bright, solid colors.


Errr .... no.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

Balfour said:


> Errr .... no.


Gulp. Darn! I don't really get it. How does one match black pants? Only white shirts?

How about blue stripe shirts? Or different patterns like gingham? 
*
Sarge* I looked at color wheel. Where do shades of khaki/tan/brown come on the circle?


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Sorry, my comment wasn't very illuminating. 

I really mean that black does not compliment colour, nor does it look good other than in the evening (when, as you say, it should be paired with white, as in a dinner jacket and evening shirt). Black does not look 'wrong' with many colours (as it is the absence of colour), but there will always be a more complimentary combination. 

For example, a blue shirt will look - IMO at least - better paired with the herringbone grey jacket and olive trousers rather than black trousers. A pink shirt would look better paired with the herringbone grey jacket and khaki or grey trousers, etc.

There may be streetwear combinations involving black and bright colours or black and whites for daytime wear. But I wouldn't know much about those!


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

A classic combination would be flannel pants in either a gray shade or navy with a small tattersall shirt and a wool challis tie in either a neat pattern or a paisley. While it's not a look you would want to wear to an important meeting or interview, it is a classic casual / county (as apposed to "city" look).


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Rick Blaine said:


> Black pants - I need to understand why does AAAC crowd vote against it. Although it doesn't have too many variations but black itself goes with plenty... especially bright, solid colors. For ex - white, pink, light green. Or am I wrong here?


Because unless one is waiting tables or working at Macy's there is nearly always a more appropriate choice than Black.

I noticed you are from Bethesda.

Local stores like Bloomingdales/Macy's are NY influenced and their color is Black dominant. Nordstroms at Montgomery Mall offers a much more diverse color range.

Brooks Brothers at sale time, or Nordstrom Rack (Wisconsin Ave)
may be better considerations for bargain shopping.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Khaki, tan and brown are all tones you get when you blend blue and orange with varying amounts of white. You can get _a_ brown by blending green and red but it is muddy and unattractive. So, since they effectively fall in the middle of the color wheel khaki, tan and brown are relatively neutral, depending on the mix of blue and orange. Chocolate brown is warmer and more orange so it compliments reds, yellows and greens, especially bright yellow-tinted greens. Espresso brown is cooler and more blue so it goes well with bluer greens, blues and violets. A proper tan goes with almost anything, much like taupe.

Add too much blue to the orange and you get true black.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

Thanks *Balfour*. I have often seen black pants/chinos in casual workplace environment so my street wear observed learning was - black is to pants what white is to shirts... slate. Appreciate the clarification.

Macy's/Bloomingdale are less than ideal places to shop for sharp dressing. I am sticking to them because, I am trying to shed few lbs and size is going to change.

I don't intend to wear a tie everyday (would like to but it would be an overkill) but PS would be a nice touch. Men's Warehouse has a nice collection for an affordable price. Any recommendations on basic colors? I have been using Sarge's provided color wheel and thinking of orange, yellow paisely and white. Comments?


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

White linen is very unobtrusive and classical, and goes with (almost) anything. 

A patterned silk pocket square often works better with odd jackets (especially in a rougher textured cloth). The colours would depend on shirt and trouser selection (and obviously the tie, if appropriate). 

Are you thinking of this to pair with the grey herringbone?


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

Balfour said:


> Are you thinking of this to pair with the grey herringbone?


Yessir. Next purchase would be a Navy Blazer.

I do have a ill-fitting dark gray suit but that's not a part of the daily arsenal. SCs/blazers work well in a casual environment and give a good variety... I just need to learn how to leverage it.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

These are very much to my taste, but for a mid-grey herringbone and pale blue shirt, I would opt for one of these autumnal patterns.

A bit of advice Manton gives on patterned pocket squares that I agree with is that large patterns work better than small repeating patterns (as the pattern will not be apparent when the PS is 'poofed' in the pocket - silk squares especially should not, IMO, be points up).


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Balfour said:


> These are very much to my taste, but for a mid-grey herringbone and pale blue shirt, I would opt for one of these autumnal patterns.
> 
> A bit of advice Manton gives on patterned pocket squares that I agree with is that large patterns work better than small repeating patterns (as the pattern will not be apparent when the PS is 'poofed' in the pocket - silk squares especially should not, IMO, be points up).


Large scale paisleys are perhaps the most versatile pocket squares as they work with a wide range of jacket and shirt patterns. It is simple and effective to wear a large scale paisley of the same predominant color as a color in the tie or shirt. Accordingly a few paisley squares can go a long way e.g. 6 squares, one each predominately of blue, red, green ,yellow,pink, and brown can cover almost all ensembles.

EDIT

I did not realize that the pictures attached to Mr. B's post would not attach to this one. The large scale paisley squares pictured above are ideal.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

I picked these paisley prints and a white pocket squares earlier today. These seem to match the best with my wardrobe (applying the color wheel). I couldn't find a white linen thus the silk. Yay/nay on the white silk?? If white silk is no-go then I could just use plain cotton ones.

https://www.menswearhouse.com/shop/...00183698_-1_700000430_____default?cm_vc=63461

https://www.menswearhouse.com/shop/...00183749_-1_700000430_____default?cm_vc=63461

(I like this one but can't place it on the color wheel)

https://www.menswearhouse.com/shop/...1_700183735_-1_700000439___?cm_vc=CMIOPdpZone

Another couple of points to ponder...

-Do silk PS into the pocket? I don't mind adjust couple of times a day but can't be doing all throughout the 12hr work day. 
-What kind of fold? I have the link for 'how to fold' but is a specific fold more casual/formal than others?


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Find a white linen square. It is THE primary, all purpose square, from formal white tie down to informal seersucker. White silk is not a replacement for linen as the contrast between linen and the rest of the ensemble lends interest to the ensemble. White silk does have a place, for instance it could go with a linen suit and cotton tie, or tweed jacket and wool tie. I don't know how often you will use an orange square, I can not envisage an ensemble where another color would not be better. Perhaps others can. The other two are good choices and will see quite a bit of use. After you fold your square, push it down into the pocket using a ruler or something similar. It keep in position for the most part and any adjustment during the day will be an inch up or down. As for folds, you will get many opinions. I am from the school that one's ensemble should not look to studied and thus most of the time I use a simple puff or point fold, stuff it and forget it.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

+1 You can seldom go wrong with white linen and the "stuff and forget" simplicity never fails.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

*Arkishner/ Sarge, *I picked orange pocket square based on color wheel. I have a huge selection of shirts in shades of blue solids and stripes. Maybe I am looking at it too literally?

Okay. I need to return the silk white square based on arkishner's comments. I don't have any ensemble of that sort. How about orange PS?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

An orange pocket square can look rather dashing with a blue jacket, surely? I tend to reach for my orange with white spots silk PS as a default (albeit then often changing my mind to avoid over exposure).

As a more general question (and because so many of the members whose opinion I respect are posting in this thread) I am wondering about shade in respect of trousers and jacket. 

I have always considered that trousers should be distinctly lighter than the accompanying jacket. That is to say that a light jacket with dark trousers grants a palpably unbalanced look, to me. Is there any validity to this perspective, or is it merely my idiosyncrasy?


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ A sensible rule of thumb, in my view, Shaver. Not impossible to get good combinations without observing the principle you set out, but definitely very easy to get in wrong.


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

Shaver for learning purposes, I am keeping it basic. Trousers are between gray, charcoal, tan, khaki and others shades of brown. Jacket - gray herringbone or navy blazer. I thought orange compliments blue (abt 80% of my shirts are different shades/patterns in blue). So its more or less a uniform. 

Some article on internet spoke abt a "2 color rule"... in that case, my ensemble is a strict violation with gray jacket, khakis, blue shirt and orange PS!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I, too, have seen the 'two color' rule put forth and consider it total hogwash. Dressing in three is simplicity itself when one of them is white and if the shirt is light blue, equally easy. Dark blue jacket, grey or tan trousers, light blue shirt, burgundy tie and, as Shaver points out, an orange (preferable dark) PS and what more could a man want. Change the jacket to grey herringbone and the trousers to taupe or olive, the tie to navy and the PS to a different shade of green, say emerald or pine, and you're on your way. A strict two color rule is for juniors in an accounting firm and the terminally timid.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Rick Blaine said:


> *Arkishner/ Sarge, *I picked orange pocket square based on color wheel. I have a huge selection of shirts in shades of blue solids and stripes. Maybe I am looking at it too literally?
> 
> Okay. I need to return the silk white square based on arkishner's comments. I don't have any ensemble of that sort. How about orange PS?


You certainly do not have to take a white silk square back, with a wool or cotton tie it is fine substitute, and maybe sometimes even better than white linen. The intent of my comment was to emphasize that if one square could be said to be the indispensable square it is the white linen.



Shaver said:


> An orange pocket square can look rather dashing with a blue jacket, surely? I tend to reach for my orange with white spots silk PS as a default (albeit then often changing my mind to avoid over exposure).


Your comment gave me reason for pause today. Last night, I posted that I could not envision an instance when there would not be a better alternative to an orange square. (At least I had the sense to qualify that with the acknowledgement that "perhaps others can"). On consideration I realize that my inability to think of orange stems from the fact that years ago I came to understand that I look best in cool, clear, vivid colors and have conditioned myself to look at things through cool, clear, vivid glasses. Of course there are those who look better in warm colors, see the world through warm glasses, and can recognize times when orange is the best choice. Reflecting on your post I can now see with earth tone or olive jackets, an orange square can be the best choice. I am sure you and others can think of more possibilities. I have no orange in ether my shirts or ties and your pairing an orange square with a blazer is outside my thought pattern . On the other hand a medium orange is one of my youngest son's best colors and an orange square may well work for him with a blazer. As you say it can work, I may pick up one for him to experiment.

I imagine it is unusual for a man to really think in all colors. The owner of the best men's store in my area has a predilection toward muted earth tones and it is reflected in his suggestions. It is not that he doesn't know there are cool, vivid colors, he stocks them of course, it is just that he cannot shift from the way he sees things.



Shaver said:


> As a more general question (and because so many of the members whose opinion I respect are posting in this thread) I am wondering about shade in respect of trousers and jacket.
> 
> I have always considered that trousers should be distinctly lighter than the accompanying jacket. That is to say that a light jacket with dark trousers grants a palpably unbalanced look, to me. Is there any validity to this perspective, or is it merely my idiosyncrasy?


To my mind, your perspective is no idiosyncrasy, it is the most common perspective. A admittedly simplistic categorization would be, dark, medium, and light toned jackets; and dark, medium, and light toned pants.

Dark jackets are most often paired with medium tone pants,  and in summer with light tone pants . This confirms your premise.

One does not find dark jackets with dark pants. (yes some men today wear charcoal pants with navy blazers because they think it is dressier than lighter pants, but this is disfavored because there is no tone contrast, and from a distance this combination looks much like a suit). This confirms your premise.

Medium tone jackets are worn with light pants This confirms your premise, but a medium jacket can be paired with similarly toned pants, but only in a noticeably different color, or In terms of tone, this is an exception to your premise, but if you expand your premise a bit, here there is a distinct colors provide the definite contrast between jacket and pants.

To put it a different way,Medium pants of one color with medium jacket of another color is not the equivalent of dark pants with dark jacket because medium tone colors are readily distinguishable from a distance whereas dark pants with dark jacket are not.

One does not find medium tone jackets with dark pants, at least one does not find it with any regularity. This confirms your premise.

On the other hand, one cannot readily find lighter pants to wear with light toned jacket. e.g.

Light tone jacket with light tone pants;

Light toned jackets with medium dark pants

Excepting black pants with a white dinner jacket, what seems to be rare is light tone jacket with much darker pants. Here is such a pairing in earth tones. I doubt it could work as well in cool tones or neutrals.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

arkirshner said:


> You certainly do not have to take a white silk square back, with a wool or cotton tie it is fine substitute, and maybe sometimes even better than white linen. The intent of my comment was to emphasize that if one square could be said to be the indispensable square it is the white linen.
> 
> Your comment gave me reason for pause today. Last night, I posted that I could not envision an instance when there would not be a better alternative to an orange square. (At least I had the sense to qualify that with the acknowledgement that "perhaps others can"). On consideration I realize that my inability to think of orange stems from the fact that years ago I came to understand that I look best in cool, clear, vivid colors and have conditioned myself to look at things through cool, clear, vivid glasses. Of course there are those who look better in warm colors, see the world through warm glasses, and can recognize times when orange is the best choice. Reflecting on your post I can now see with earth tone or olive jackets, an orange square can be the best choice. I am sure you and others can think of more possibilities. I have no orange in ether my shirts or ties and your pairing an orange square with a blazer is outside my thought pattern . On the other hand a medium orange is one of my youngest son's best colors and an orange square may well work for him with a blazer. As you say it can work, I may pick up one for him to experiment.
> 
> ...


Thank you arkirshner (or Alan, if I may?) for a considered and beautifully illustrated response which has allowed me to incubate my embryonic thoughts. Most especially I will consider, in future, the agreeable visual possibilities which can be provided by similar toned jackets and trousers when each is of a very differing colour.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Shaver: 

Although arkirshner's post said nearly everything that could be said about the issue, I have one last detail about lighter jackets with darker pants which I've noticed recently: In my opinion, in an odd jacket rig, the shoes should contrast with the pants. So, while a navy blazer with mid-gray trousers and dark brown or black shoes works well, the same look with light tan shoes wouldn't be a very good look. Similarly, I believe that if one is wearing a jacket which is lighter than one's pants, then ones shoes should also be lighter than one's pants, and similarly if one is wearing a jacket darker than one's pants, then one should wear shoes darker than the pants. 

That isn't an exact rule, and there are exceptions to it, but I find it works pretty well and it's harder to do wrong following it.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

An interesting view,YR, and one worthy of serious consideration. Of course, it does require a more extensive assortment of shoes . . . 


Awwwww . . . :icon_smile_wink:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Shaver:
> 
> Although arkirshner's post said nearly everything that could be said about the issue, I have one last detail about lighter jackets with darker pants which I've noticed recently: In my opinion, in an odd jacket rig, the shoes should contrast with the pants. So, while a navy blazer with mid-gray trousers and dark brown or black shoes works well, the same look with light tan shoes wouldn't be a very good look. Similarly, I believe that if one is wearing a jacket which is lighter than one's pants, then ones shoes should also be lighter than one's pants, and similarly if one is wearing a jacket darker than one's pants, then one should wear shoes darker than the pants.
> 
> That isn't an exact rule, and there are exceptions to it, but I find it works pretty well and it's harder to do wrong following it.


I think darker shoes than trousers, almost always. Not lighter...

Lighter shoes always make the shoes an attention point. It's better when the entire outfit frames the face. Then, the shoes should not draw the eye. They can be exquisite, of course, but they should not attract attention. Lighter shoes than trousers will do that. Should always be darker.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

By that standard one should never wear spectators or white bucks. I firmly disagree and believe that the younger gentleman in your illustration looks most dapper . . . except for cigarette, that is.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Bjorn said:


> I think darker shoes than trousers, almost always. Not lighter...
> 
> Lighter shoes always make the shoes an attention point. It's better when the entire outfit frames the face. Then, the shoes should not draw the eye. They can be exquisite, of course, but they should not attract attention. Lighter shoes than trousers will do that. Should always be darker.


First of all, I totally agree that shoes should not be distracting. I also agree that light shoes with a dark suit is a distracting look. I'm not sure if light shoes with a light jacket and darker trousers is distracting. I'll concede that light shoes with a dark jacket and trousers are less than optimal.

Two things prompted me towards developing this idea. The first was trying on a pair of walnut AE Strands in a shoe store. My impression of those shoes was that they were beautiful on their own, but I had seen few pictures of them looking coherent as part of an outfit, and many of them looking distracting with a dark suit or a blazer with dark flannels. I was surprised by how good they looked on me. I was wearing a navy blazer and white pants, and I determined that they looked good not only because they were darker than my pants, but also because they balanced the top and bottom of the whole look. The burgundy Weejuns I had worn into the store had the same effect, but I had taken it for granted.

I wasn't sure if the converse was necessarily true, until I saw this picture of Luciano Barbera looking very good with pants darker than his jacket, a look he seems to do fairly often. I think part of what lends this look balance is the lighter shoes. Are they, conceivably, distracting? Yes, but I think the greater elegance they lend to this look is worth it. I suppose, if one were to dress like this, one would just have to try harder to be interesting, in order to keep ahead of the shoes.










Oldsarge, thank you for agreeing with me, although I will not that you don't need that many more shoes, because you probably shouldn't do this too often -- certainly, it would be easier to do things the conventional way.


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

Youthful Repp-robate,

That is a very interesting idea, and one I haven't consciously consider nor recall reading about. As you mentioned, it is important not to match as that would be distracting, like a matching PS and tie.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Because unless one is waiting tables or working at Macy's there is nearly always a more appropriate choice than Black.
> 
> I noticed you are from Bethesda.
> 
> ...


Ah, the waiter comment. Of course, we would not be so lowly as to UGH wait on tables or work at Macy's. We're totally ABOVE that, aren't we.

I stand by my comment that these are the types of remarks that put off the people we would like to reach and who could learn a lot. I'll wear black pants occasionally and spend no time worrying about what you think.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Rick Blaine said:


> *Arkishner/ Sarge, *I picked orange pocket square based on color wheel. I have a huge selection of shirts in shades of blue solids and stripes. Maybe I am looking at it too literally?
> 
> Okay. I need to return the silk white square based on arkishner's comments. I don't have any ensemble of that sort. How about orange PS?





Shaver said:


> An orange pocket square can look rather dashing with a blue jacket, surely? I tend to reach for my orange with white spots silk PS as a default (albeit then often changing my mind to avoid over exposure).
> 
> As a more general question (and because so many of the members whose opinion I respect are posting in this thread) I am wondering about shade in respect of trousers and jacket.
> 
> I have always considered that trousers should be distinctly lighter than the accompanying jacket. That is to say that a light jacket with dark trousers grants a palpably unbalanced look, to me. Is there any validity to this perspective, or is it merely my idiosyncrasy?


Gentlemen,

Flanderian found another place for the orange square! https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?119370-Simon-Crompton-digs-Paul-Stuart.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> By that standard one should never wear spectators or white bucks. I firmly disagree and believe that the younger gentleman in your illustration looks most dapper . . . except for cigarette, that is.


Spectators and white bucks are hard to pull off successfully, IMO, for that very reason. But this is no "rule", it's just my preferences towards what I think looks good. But I do think those kinds of shoes, especially spectators with white, look best with very light trousers. I have a pair of light grey suede oxfords, very hard to wear.

All three gentlemen in the illustration do look dapper, but the two gents to the right look best, to my eye.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Shaver:
> 
> Although arkirshner's post said nearly everything that could be said about the issue, I have one last detail about lighter jackets with darker pants which I've noticed recently: In my opinion, in an odd jacket rig, the shoes should contrast with the pants. So, while a navy blazer with mid-gray trousers and dark brown or black shoes works well, the same look with light tan shoes wouldn't be a very good look. Similarly, I believe that if one is wearing a jacket which is lighter than one's pants, then ones shoes should also be lighter than one's pants, and similarly if one is wearing a jacket darker than one's pants, then one should wear shoes darker than the pants.
> 
> That isn't an exact rule, and there are exceptions to it, but I find it works pretty well and it's harder to do wrong following it.


Thanks YR, an interesting notion, but I think that daring the 'equal toned jacket/trouser in differing colours' look will be far enough from my comfort zone - for the forseeable future at least :redface:


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## Rick Blaine (Aug 26, 2012)

I actually did go to Nordstrom after reading the suggestions on this thread. Massive up-kick in the price tag but much better selection of clothes. Didn't know Canali and Brioni shirts are ridiculous expensive. Got couple of white linen PS as well. Had to open the top pockets... now these pockets look plain weird without a PS. Might as well superglue a white PS in the dark gray suit jacket.


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