# Tucker Carlson...hated?



## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

I have noticed that when his name comes up there are always some who seem to look upon Tucker with great disdain, why? He embodies to me what trad is, bow ties, sacks, grosgrain, he is conservative in his views as the day is long. Granted, the haircut may be a little non-trad but other than that I think he is spot on. He is intellectual, witty with a hint of bridled sarcasm and is not afraid to speak his mind and seemingly fears no reprisal from anyone. I ask again, for those of you who have expressed your dislike, why?


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## GreyFlannelMan (Jun 16, 2004)

I have also picked up on this. Do some view him as a poseur? 

I like his personal style more than his politics; that said, I'll take Buckley or Will any day before Carlson.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by GreyFlannelMan_
> 
> I have also picked up on this. Do some view him as a poseur?
> 
> I like his personal style more than his politics; that said, I'll take Buckley or Will any day before Carlson.


Glad I am not the only one that has sensed this. I think his style is great and his political views are in step with mine.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Part of the disdain may have something to do with his youth. Bill Buckley and Geo. will are sort of the old sages but this young upstart Carlson? That and Mr. Carlson doesn't exactly look the Ivy-League-Old-Boy part - close but not exact. Personally I disagree with most of his politics but as for his style - it's fine. He seems suitably comfortable in his clothes. By this and his general demeanor I can disagree with him but respect him at the same time.
Cheers


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Once upon a time in these hallowed pages Tucker was considered pure trad. It's only in the last few months that he's been getting a bit of a bad rap from some.


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## Foghorn (Feb 2, 2005)

Well, he's no Ivy man & his politics are thwarted- at best. He is more of a preppie than trad. While he is not a college grad- he may have read God & Man at Yale. I do not dislike him immensely, although I have become weary of people confusing/comparing him to myself- we look & dress quite similar.

You want trad, I submit James Carville.

Regards,
Foghorn


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> Once upon a time in these hallowed pages Tucker was considered pure trad. It's only in the last few months that he's been getting a bit of a bad rap from some.


Never seen the man in an OCBD. Tragic.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

I do not understand why Tucker is considered such a fake trad by some. Although he is from the West Coast, he attended an elite boaring school in Rhode Island, and Trinity College as well, both very tradly. For those who think family prestige matters, he comes from a wealthy family and his father is a former ambassador. Although Harris is right that he does not wear buttowndowns, he does get his shirts from David Mercer, which I also see as very trad. According to salesmen at J. Press, Tucker has been buying his suits there since he was a kid, which shows he was brought up on those clothes, the way all pure trads are supposed to be. 

I think a lot of the dislike for Tucker comes from his political views. A few people, although not most on this board, have a hard time separating his dress from his views. Just my opinion.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by daltx_
> 
> I do not understand why Tucker is considered such a fake trad by some. Although he is from the West Coast, he attended an elite boaring school in Rhode Island, and Trinity College as well, both very tradly. For those who think family prestige matters, he comes from a wealthy family and his father is a former ambassador. Although Harris is right that he does not wear buttowndowns, he does get his shirts from David Mercer, which I also see as very trad. According to salesmen at J. Press, Tucker has been buying his suits there since he was a kid, which shows he was brought up on those clothes, the way all pure trads are supposed to be.
> 
> I think a lot of the dislike for Tucker comes from his political views. A few people, although not most on this board, have a hard time separating his dress from his views. Just my opinion.


He seems so _young_. And (horibile dictu) fun-loving. And the hair--my God, the hair. I wonder if the hair alone is sufficient to delete any/all potential for trad.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

He does have a very tradly hobby that he talks about all the time. He loves to go fly fishing in Maine, where has summered beginning when he was a kid.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
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LOL!! To be trad one must be born old and boring??


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## Mr. Knightly (Sep 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
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I always just figured he's in the camp that thinks bowties do not belong with BDs. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

I don't get it either, unless it is purely political views. That I DO understand, although I'm "with him!"

Now the hair.......Hmmm. Interesting.......True story...After seeing him on TV about a year ago, I thought about his hair. He has a "nice head" of hair. I am approaching 50, and many men my age are losing or have lost an awful lot of hair. I am blessed with a full head of very thick hair........So I stared into the mirror for many minutes and made a decision.
My new Tucker look would begin to develop immediately............
My hair was very short at the time, and in fact my barber called it either a "Princeton" or "Ivy League". (I can't remember which)
ie.......Very short and tapered on the sides, about 1.5" on top, parted on the left and combed over. Years and years of the same look.

Mid life crisis.. A new look would emerge!!!!! Tucker Joey. So, I know you are all VERY interested in discussing my hair and will update you. Long and more grey in it than I was aware! Flipping up a little in the back and yes, I do from time to time need to take both hands and tuck it behind my ears. (not a lot, just a little)

Of course, w/the mid-life crisis goes the desire to date younger ladies. The most recent is 31 years old. She likes it longer when I showed her older pictures. The most important thing of course, is that I like it. Yes, I do.

Not quite Tucker length, but think more Curt Schilling for you baseball fans. 

I hope this post piqued your interest.

All the best, 
Joe


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

I resent him for cementing the idea that: 

bow tie wearer = neocon brat

I love the bow for its academic associations. Carlson has turned it into the "right wing nose ring." If I had a right wing, I'd chop it off.

To add insult to injury, I also wear my hair a bit long and unkempt (sorry, Harris), that Robert Lowell flyaway, bohemian-tweedy-intellectual thing.

I shudder to think people might think I'm emulating that Tucker...person. 

Also:

Don't you kind of want to punch a grown man named "Tucker?"


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I think he totally lacks anything resembling gravitas, but he pretends to have it.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> I think he totally lacks anything resembling gravitas, but he pretends to have it.


In regards to what? Politics, education or just in general?


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

This board is the only place I've ever heard of this person. I think someone posted a picture of him from some place. Who is he?

Markus


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## Bowdoin (Dec 9, 2004)

I'm a moderate liberal, but I actually kind of like the guy. 

He seems reasonably intelligent and thoughtful for a pundit, he isn't particularly partisan (more of a conservative than a Republican; hates Grover Norquist), seems genuinely pleasant, and exposes himself to all sorts of criticism for dressing traditionally and wearing bow ties.

George Will, Bill Krisol and particularly WFB are obviously much more significant as public intellectuals. Carlson isn't even in their league. But he's good at what he does, and gives a public face to a reasonable Blue State conservatism that's refreshing in the era of Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. Plus he's a sharp dresser.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Markus_
> 
> This board is the only place I've ever heard of this person. I think someone posted a picture of him from some place. Who is he?
> 
> Markus


He is the host of MSNBC's "The Situation with Tucker Carlson". A youngish political pundit that is a libertarian leaning conservative. His show airs Monday thru Thursday at 11pm EST. A very entertaining show, at least in my opinion.


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## GreyFlannelMan (Jun 16, 2004)

George Will is also a Trinity College alum. And he did the bow tie thing well before TC was on the scene.

I recall seeing several photos of WFB with hair rather unkempt.

Markus, he is a conservative political pundit here in the US. He had been on "Crossfire" on CNN for years and is now on MSNBC.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Foghorn_
> 
> Well, he's no Ivy man & his politics are thwarted- at best. He is more of a preppie than trad. While he is not a college grad- he may have read God & Man at Yale. I do not dislike him immensely, although I have become weary of people confusing/comparing him to myself- we look & dress quite similar.
> 
> ...


Sorry. When Carville dresses up (not for TV or political occasions) it isn't trad. MTM or custom made suit, french cuffs, and bright tie. This at a family wedding.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by jmorgan32_
> 
> I don't get it either, unless it is purely political views. That I DO understand, although I'm "with him!"
> 
> ...


LOL!! Joe as I get to "know" you we seem to have quite a bit in common.


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## Bowdoin (Dec 9, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Markus_
> 
> This board is the only place I've ever heard of this person. I think someone posted a picture of him from some place. Who is he?


He's a young-looking, bow-tie-wearing American television personality and journalist -- in that order. He represented the conservative side in a debate show on CNN for quite a while, so he's widely recognized (and widely reviled) here in the States. His most famous enemy is Jon Stewart, the insanely popular host of The Daily Show.

There's more at Wikipedia, if you care:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_Carlson


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

The longer he's around the more I like him. I really do like him a bit during non election times. Some of my politics align with his though I'm more of a Goldwater Republican and I think he's of a much newer school. 
I think the biggest problem with him is that he's so damned memorable. So now everybody young who wears a bow tie immediately gets compared to him. I like his look, I just wish he didn't own it so well in popular culture.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford. 

John Adams


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## Foghorn (Feb 2, 2005)

I am 35 & wear basically the same hair style that I wore in boarding school (but a little shorter). Quite a few of us wore our hair like that & a good number still do. It is similar to Tucker's, but I keep it off my collar & over my ears, not quite the mini-mullet length he wears. The rhetorical question posed by Hairless, excuse me, Harris, 'does the hair preclude him from being trad?'
No it does not, if anything it puts him in the trad category. The issue of trad hair came up with a Bush appointee recently, who has bad hair but, a variation of the same hair style. 
The real issue is that, he looks young & sports a coiff- which likely makes him look much younger. 
I have met Tucker & the man was wearing a OCBD. I still say his political views are thwarted but he would make a fine neighbor. Hell, most of my friends are Repubs,
F


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> I think he totally lacks anything resembling gravitas, but he pretends to have it.


So then, so forth...so true. Hear, hear.

How long until another Jon Stewart moment?

His show on PBS failed. He's credited by some for killing Crossfire on CNN. Let's see if the pattern prevails at CNBC...


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## Bowdoin (Dec 9, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by familyman_
> 
> I think the biggest problem with him is that he's so damned memorable. So now everybody young who wears a bow tie immediately gets compared to him. I like his look, I just wish he didn't own it so well in popular culture.


I have had this problem as well. "Dude, nice bow tie -- you look like that dweeb from CNN. Is that where you got the idea?"


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
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Since you agree and I have not gotten a response from forsbergacct2000, where does he lack the seriousness you two speak of? Just curious.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by DartmouthMan88_
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Do watch his show?


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

Jon Stewart??? Come on Harris surely you are not a fan of his? You speak of TC and gravitas....how about JS what on Earth does he do for you? JS is a clown!


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## rogue (May 21, 2005)

This may have been covered elsewhere, but since I am only an occasional visitor to the Trad forum I thought I would weigh in on the hair. 

While I understand the bias for the Ivy league cut, I have lived and worked with a number of men that define trad and had longer hair. This was generally because they were too engaged in work, family, sailing, hobby, etc. to go get their haircut every three or four weeks or even to care. Also, I dare say a few of them didn't want to part with the cash that often, and preferred to make only four to six visits to the barber per year.

I don't see anything at all untradly about longer hair within reason. Now if he is having it done at some major salon, that's an issue. Of course, I know a few Ivy league cuts that go to salons, but that's just wrong.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
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I do but apparently I am too simple minded to see what you and the other poster are talking about. If you do not mind please enlighten me as to what it is exactly.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DartmouthMan88_
> 
> Jon Stewart??? Come on Harris surely you are not a fan of his? You speak of TC and gravitas....how about JS what on Earth does he do for you? JS is a clown!


Absolutely, Jon Stewart is paid to be a clown. That's his whole raison d'etre (sp?).


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## Foghorn (Feb 2, 2005)

I worked with James Carvelle & I have never seen him in a suit with pleats- mostly 3 button undarted jackets/coats.


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## atomboy (Mar 2, 2006)

Maybe it's because he reviews books he admits he hasn't read. Maybe it's because people hate the fact that he is a conservative lapdog. Maybe it's because people hate his vacuous thinking and his inability to deal with facts rather than opinion.

Other than that I can't imagine.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

I don't hate the man. I just think he'd look better with a haircut. I don't buy the argument that a man who appears regularly on a carefully choreographed TV broadcast, almost certainly with staff wardrobe and make-up people, is unable to get himself to someone wielding clippers and scissors.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

Foghorn,

Sounds like you are in interesting business. What was Tucker like when you met him? As Harris mentioned earlier in similar words, he seems like he would be a really fun guy to hang around with.

His PBS show did not fail, he opted out of his contract after starting his show at MSNBC. As for Crossfire, he told CNN several months before the Jon Stewart incident that he would not be renewing his Crossfire contract because he did not like the tone and nature of the show. 

I think everyone should try watching his show at least once. To me at least, it is very refreshing compared to all of the other cable news shoes. His producer, Willie Giest, who he talks to at the end of the show is hilarious.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

This is turning out to be quite an interesting thread...I would have thought that a conservative guy like TC would fit right in amongst the trad school of thought.


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## djl (Feb 6, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Let's see if the pattern prevails at CNBC...


His show is on MSNBC.

Thus...



> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Do watch his show?


Do you?

Just ribbing, Harris. I am squarely in the "fan of Tucker" camp, even if I do wish he'd wear a buttondown.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

Having read the critiques of those who dislike him, I find most center around his views not fashion. If anything, his look comes off a tad costume-ish. 

But come on, everyone in media or politics has their angle or spin. Whether its a look or an accent, people work the aspect to play a role. Tucker seems to play a role similar to Alex Keaton. After all, this guy got into media fairly young and without significant political experience elsewhere. He had to have something different, and visually he created a persona and character made for a TV audience. Do you honestly believe Tucker would have made it in talk radio?


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DartmouthMan88_
> 
> This is turning out to be quite an interesting thread...I would have thought that a conservative guy like TC would fit right in amongst the trad school of thought.


Ah yes, trad - the big tent, a place at the table for everyone. We will on one hand criticize the heck out of one another, but band together if one of 'them' criticizes any one of 'us'. LOL

Actually I find all this interesting as well.
Cheers


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Foghorn_
> 
> I am 35 & wear basically the same hair style that I wore in boarding school (but a little shorter). Quite a few of us wore our hair like that & a good number still do. It is similar to Tucker's, but I keep it off my collar & over my ears, not quite the mini-mullet length he wears. The rhetorical question posed by Hairless, excuse me, Harris, 'does the hair preclude him from being trad?'
> No it does not, if anything it puts him in the trad category. The issue of trad hair came up with a Bush appointee recently, who has bad hair but, a variation of the same hair style.
> ...


I keep mine above the ears as well.(or at least tucked all the way behind them.) I don't think I could go with the half-over the ear look. However, I do like it longer and a little over the collar. 
I remember spending the summer in either 74 or 75 down at Rollins College in Florida. (heard of it??) A friend of mine was in school there. Over that summer I saw an awful LOT of very trad students there that had some pretty seriously long hair.
These were kids from all over the East Coast and Deep South who attended prep schools. Rumpled oxfords half-way hanging out, wrinkled chinos, no belt half the time, loafers (most of kinds I had never even seen before at that time) and no socks of course. 
The guys then who had the "finest collection" of blonde, tanned Southern babes usually had longish hair that was even semi-disheveled. (There I was, a country boy from Ohio, eyes WIDE open all summer.) I may be dreaming here, but I swear I even remember a couple of sweet babes who always drove off in a red 450 SL, top down and smoking with real cigarette holders! What a vivid funny memory. 
I liked them quite a lot. (they didn't have any interest in me at all unfortunately.)


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

ps..........i feel quite loquacious this afternoon. (like most of them.)

anyway,,,,,those loafer i mentioned above.... i think i have seen something like them somewhere but i cant put a finger on it. this one guy in particular (reminded me of the guy on Animal House - Oscar? what was his name? the frat Pres. guy) anyway.....he was the guy with all the super babes. so, naturally, we farm boys tended to "take in" what his habits were and what he wore over the summer. just human nature, though it doesn't come across as very "manly" as I admit this.

those loafers were styled like penny loafs, but they didn't have a "strap" or anything "across the top" ie no "penny slit" etc......just smooth across the top......never did get a pair.....

although, as a kid i remember my dad wore a black pair all the time. dont like the black at all, but might consider a burgundy pair down the road if i see them.

take care...........


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jmorgan32_
> 
> those loafers were styled like penny loafs, but they didn't have a "strap" or anything "across the top" ie no "penny slit" etc......just smooth across the top......never did get a pair.....


Something like this? 
I rather like these and have been wondering where they fit in the scheme of things.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford.

John Adams


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Those often get called "venetian loafers" by many different manufacturers. I kind of prefer them, actually, since so many modern penny loafers have massive flat-straps that seem a bit out of proportion.


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by familyman_
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Similar, but no "beef roll", just a small stitched area like the Alden Cape Cod drop tassel. They were almost identical to the drop tassel without the tassels! Oh, and the leather was not this soft or dull. I have seen them in burgundy and black calf.(many moons ago.) They did NOT have the contrasting stitching like the Alden does. Back in the 60's when Florsheim (sp?) was still making one of the better shoes, they made the black ones my Dad wore. (he didn't wear tan chinos, mostly grey slacks - ie the black wouldn't have gone with tan obviously!)


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## Foghorn (Feb 2, 2005)

Stewart is a hoot & has yet to meet one with whom he could not either verbally dessimate or at least hold his own ground. An example for those interested is below.
Regards & Enjoy,
F

(its 13 min but worth it)

STEWART: See, the thing is, we need your help. Right now, you're helping the politicians and the corporations. And we're left out there to mow our lawns.

BEGALA: By beating up on them? You just said we're too rough on them when they make mistakes.

STEWART: No, no, no, you're not too rough on them. You're part of their strategies. You are partisan, what do you call it, hacks.

CARLSON: Let me ask you a question on the news.

STEWART: So this is...

CARLSON: I know. I know. I know. You're a...

STEWART: So this is theater.

CARLSON: You need to get a job at a journalism school, I think.

STEWART: You need to go to one. The thing that I want to say is, when you have people on for just knee-jerk, reactionary talk...

CARLSON: Wait. I thought you were going to be funny. Come on. Be funny.

STEWART: No. No. I'm not going to be your monkey.

CARLSON: I do think you're more fun on your show. Just my opinion. OK, up next, Jon Stewart goes one on one with his fans...

STEWART: You know what's interesting, though? You're as big a dick on your show as you are on any show.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Just in response to the mention of James Carville in this thread, here he is with his wife, _sans_ running shoes and jeans.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

Carville and Carlson both seem like they would be a lot of fun to hang out with in person. Any experience with that foghorn?

Also, has anyone ever seen Carlson in a long tie as opposed to his bows?


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by DartmouthMan88_
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So then, you're saying you do, in fact, think he has gravitas. Okay.

My debate coach once told us that everything is relative, so describing what something (or someone) is not can be best done by describing (or pointing to) what another something or someone is.

So then...

...when I think of gravitas--a serious, dignified demeanor that projects self-confidence and a sense of authority--I think of Archie Cox, Elliot Richardson, and James Schlesinger. In terms of people who do (generally) what Carlson does for a living, I think of journalists like David Brinkley and Tim Russert and Jim Lehrer.

Back to you, then. Do you believe that Carlson possesses the same level/sort of gravitas?


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by djl_
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C or N, still something NBC. Who cares.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

Harris I think their styles are so different it is like comparing apples to oranges. Do I compare him and his present ability to Brinkley or Cox? No. Do I think that he could one day reach that level, absolutely. Again we could go round and round about this, you have your opinions and I have mine. I do think it's unfair to say he has no merit or gravitas.


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DartmouthMan88_
> 
> Harris I think their styles are so different it is like comparing apples to oranges. Do I compare him and his present ability to Brinkley or Cox? No. Do I think that he could one day reach that level, absolutely. Again we could go round and round about this, you have your opinions and I have mine. I do think it's unfair to say he has no merit or gravitas.


He is a very bright guy, and everyone on this board knows that. (they may not want to admit it, but they do know it.)
Joe


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by jmorgan32_
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I think he is very intelligent as well and I truly enjoy his program.


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## rogue (May 21, 2005)

Foghorn,

Thanks for posting the link. I just watched it and thought it was pretty funny. Not sure it bolsters the point you are making about JS holding his own. I like him and was disappointed to see he couldn't make it through without namecalling and being completely rude. I thought Paul and Tucker were shining beacons in comparison, and TC in particular was pretty bad.

I loved Stewart's use of Comedy Central as a foil to CNN, but since I have heard that huge numbers of folks are tuning into him for the news, I had the sense that he and his staff were taking the show a little more seriously. Maybe not; I agree with him it should just be viewed as comedy.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Carlson may be bright, but I think a lot of the people he deals with are brighter. Back in his crossfire days, even when I agreed with Carlson, I thought that Begala and Carville steamrollered him.

I'm not a professional in this field. I see Carlson as a wannabe with the potential for greatness, maybe, someday. I just get the feeling that he has not experienced all that much in his life besides grad school. I really don't have a basis for this.

I do not consider him a heavyweight. His silly, dated hairstyle adds to this impression, I suppose.


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## Bowdoin (Dec 9, 2004)

Stewart seems to want to have it both ways. He wants to say the Daily Show is just a comedy show, but he is also intensely opinionated and political. I love what he does, but I found his "we have no social responsibility because it's only comedy" argument unconvincing. If he really felt that way, would the show be as good as it is?


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> I just get the feeling that he has not experienced all that much in his life besides grad school. I really don't have a basis for this.
> 
> I do not consider him a heavyweight. His silly, dated hairstyle adds to this impression, I suppose.


FWIW, Tucker never attended grad school nor did he finish his undergrad studies as far as I know.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

I have also heard that about his schooling, but I know Trinity college claims him as a graduate and I remember Tucker once saying he wasn't sure if he was considered to have graduated, but knew he spent four years in school.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DartmouthMan88_
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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

His conservative credentials come from his days as one of the original writers for The Weekly Standard magazine. He got into TV randomly when the Weekly Standard was asked to send someone to to a TV show talking about the OJ case.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by daltx_
> 
> His conservative credentials come from his days as one of the original writers for The Weekly Standard magazine. He got into TV randomly when the Weekly Standard was asked to send someone to to a TV show talking about the OJ case.


I was not aware of how he got into TV, thanks.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

By the way, I think the lack of gravitas has comparatively little to do with the bowtie. There are plenty of gents who wear bows regularly and nonetheless come across as serious, authoritative, well-informed, discreet people who merit respect from others. I'm thinking of Archie Cox, Arthur Schlesinger, and Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan. One of my college professors wore a bowtie every day, and we all respected and revered him. 

Cheers, Harris


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> By the way, I think the lack of gravitas has comparatively little to do with the bowtie. There are plenty of gents who wear bows regularly and nonetheless come across as serious, authoritative, well-informed, discreet people who merit respect from others. I'm thinking of Archie Cox, Arthur Schlesinger, and Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan. One of my college professors wore a bowtie every day, and we all respected and revered him.
> 
> Cheers, Harris


Tucker's bows seem kind of small, don't they?

That doesn't help matters.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

Ok, so in the last two days we've had a thread that grosgrain and ribbon watch bands aren't trad, and neither is Tucker Carlson because he doesn't wear OCBDs on TV. What is this place coming to?

Is someone going to start a thread tomorrow about how sack jackets aren't trad either unless they are paired with a matching vest? Or that Calvin Klein button downs are more trad than Mercer point collars?!?!?!?!?!

Tucker and George HW Bush, both wear/wore ribbon bands, both have an affinity for the point collar.

FWIW I like Tucker. I like his style. I like that he doesn't shop at the same racks as all the other talking heads, wears a pocket square, and picks nice patterns for his (bow)ties.

I think I have seen one picture of him in a necktie, however I cant reproduce it [V]. I do wish he would mix it up a little more often.

"After four years, I had met a lot of interesting people, gone to a couple of classes and restored a motorcycle, and that was it. And so I wasted my time at college." - Tucker

I think that since trad is almost counter-cultural now, a lot of people discount Tucker's trad credentials because he's rather popular and has a cable tv show.

You guys are just as bad as the punk rockers and indie music fans who only like a band untill they're popular, and then call the same band sellouts and poseurs. Day in and day out AAAC pines for better dressed/traditionally dressed public figures, and when one is submitted to you he must be a 'fake'.

Oh, I hear your lamentations during the Emmys, Oscars, Grammys, etc of men wearing neckties and clip-ons; but when a public figure is infront of you that I can _guarantee_ would be wearing proper neckwear for the occasion, he is written off as a fake.

---------------------

Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

I like Tucker. Don't care if he dropped out. Too bad he doesn't wear the OCBD. But his ties still look good. He helps keep Press in business. That alone makes me like him. And he fights with Jon Stewart, who I can't stand. Go Tucker.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by crazyquik_
> 
> Ok, so in the last two days we've had a thread that grosgrain and ribbon watch bands aren't trad, and neither is Tucker Carlson because he doesn't wear OCBDs on TV. What is this place coming to?
> 
> ...


I don't dislike him because I think he's "fake." He dresses well enough, and I don't give a rat's patoot about his breeding or credentials or whether he graduated from wherever.

I dislike him him because he and his ilk are helping to ruin this country.

And by that I mean: partisan pundits, on either side of the argument.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..."


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

Brownshoe,

It is hard to consider Carlson a partisan, when he does not associate himself with a political party. As was said earlier, he hates the Iraq war. He disagrees with Bush to the extent that he chose not to vote for him in 2004. Sounds hardly partisan to me.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by daltx_
> 
> Brownshoe,
> 
> It is hard to consider Carlson a partisan, when he does not associate himself with a political party. As was said earlier, he hates the Iraq war. He disagrees with Bush to the extent that he chose not to vote for him in 2004. Sounds hardly partisan to me.


Fair points, but he is certainly part of the Culture of Babble that misleads people about what's really going on--as if Politics, as practiced in this country, actually represents the people's interests.

I'll shut up about this now. Back to clothes.

I still say his ties are too small.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
> 
> I like Tucker. Don't care if he dropped out. Too bad he doesn't wear the OCBD. But his ties still look good. He helps keep Press in business. That alone makes me like him. And he fights with Jon Stewart, who I can't stand. Go Tucker.


I agree. George Will popularized the pundit bowtie YEARS before Tucker Carlson, though.

Will doesn't get enough credit. I had an economics teacher who was his dead ringer. My mother thought he was hot. It was vaguely embarrassing.


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


VS-It was somewhat embarrassing to ask if that was a photo of you earlier today. In hindsight, I know I will get over it. 
Since it is not our photo, I still have to say you seem really nice and have great taste in attire.
With that said, if by some slight chance you are being modest and that is really you, I have to say I firmly believe it is in immediate and necessary order to conduct a face-to face very serious and focused meeting about this forum. I think it would be very benefical for all involved.
So, if by chance, you are being overly modest, and that is your pic, I think it would be in order for me to search for air fares to the UK and set this meeting up asap.
Based on that, we would of course devote 3-4 days of very focused and strategic planning on how to improve the forum and move forward with a firm business plan to present to Andy. Agree?

Ok. I know you agree. Now, on to important things. British fish n chips etc. I will take care of it. NO prob. Also, I have to add another favorite.........yes. you guessed it......meat pie and bangers. ( I left out the "mash" due to my low carb diet)

I also realize many forum members may thing this is a pun or humor, but you and I both know meat pies and bangers are mighty good stuff. No pun intended, I promise. You must know there are many very honest, tradly men out there with nothing but the highest intentions.

Oh well. All the best, 
Joe


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## Sweetness (Aug 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> How long until another Jon Stewart moment?


I actually defend Tucker on this situation (pun...), because Jon Stewart was in perfect position for debating since he could give as much criticism as he wanted and could receive none. As a comedian, he can say pretty much whatever he wanted negatively about Tucker, then fall back on "oh, it's just a joke." On the other hand, he tries to come off as a serious journalist, but when confronted with hard facts, once again comes back to "oh, I host a joke show." It was a no-win situation for Tucker and although he may not have handled it personally, I believe the only people who believe that J.S. was correct are highschoolers who listen to every word J.S. says religiously and thinks he's hilarious.


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## FormerlyTM (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by daltx_
> 
> Carville and Carlson both seem like they would be a lot of fun to hang out with in person. Any experience with that foghorn?
> 
> Also, has anyone ever seen Carlson in a long tie as opposed to his bows?


They are both quite amusing to socialize with. Sharp wit and dangerously intelligent, both of them.

Yes. A couple weeks ago at the Old Ebbitt he was wearing a long tie with an OCBD, navy blazer, flat front chinos.


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## guyfromboston (Jan 26, 2005)

Let's not forget George Will. Sometimes wears a bowtie, in the same line of work as Tucker, definitely more substantial. On the other hand, Tucker suffers from the disadvantages of youth. My guess is it will wear off.


> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> By the way, I think the lack of gravitas has comparatively little to do with the bowtie. There are plenty of gents who wear bows regularly and nonetheless come across as serious, authoritative, well-informed, discreet people who merit respect from others. I'm thinking of Archie Cox, Arthur Schlesinger, and Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan. One of my college professors wore a bowtie every day, and we all respected and revered him.
> 
> Cheers, Harris


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by crazyquik_
> 
> Is someone going to start a thread tomorrow about how sack jackets aren't trad either unless they are paired with a matching vest? Or that Calvin Klein button downs are more trad than Mercer point collars?


Not tomorrow, but I believe that day is coming.
Anyway, some great points in your post, *crazyquick*.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by crazyquik_
> 
> Ok, so in the last two days we've had a thread that grosgrain and ribbon watch bands aren't trad, and neither is Tucker Carlson because he doesn't wear OCBDs on TV. What is this place coming to?
> 
> ...


There's a generational thing going on here, for sure. No need to panic, for God's sake. Take a step back, breathe deeply, and try to understand that the members of different generations are going to see things differently. Basic sociology. Trad has experienced developments and modifications throughout the years, and any one of us can pick and choose from certain eras as we prefer.

For the record, I never said that grosgrain watch straps were not trad. I spoke of a lunchtime conversation with an old, WWII-era gent who thought they looked silly...frivolous...as he put it, "fruity." Is he wrong? Well, it depends upon how you see it, which depends upon generational perspective. The "I love pink and green and Nantucket and patch madras" 80s-preppy crowd may look upon WWII era trad as boring, all-too-serious, stuffy, and blah-blah-blah, but the fact is that many old trads look upon the recent developments (within the realm of traditional clothing) as ridiculous. Is a sack jacket lacking in uber tradness until paired with a matching vest? All in the eyes of the beholder.

As to the charge that some are as bad as "the punk rockers and indie music fans who only like a band untill they're popular, and then call the same band sellouts and poseurs"...well, I'm not even sure how to respond. I know what I wear to (and after) work and what I think looks good, and damned near all of it is based NOT upon a handbook or what a conservative pundit on T.V. wears, but what I saw my father, grandfather, and their friends and neighbors wear. Do I have standards based upon what I saw? Hell, yes. Am I picky? Hell, yes. Too picky to make allowances? No. Carlson can wear whatever he wants; but when an opinion is sought regarding what he's wearing, any one of us can offer an opinion. Right?

Part of the reason the discussions among these boards has to do with the generational stuff, but it occurs to me that a lot it has to do with how, when, and where a forum poster learned to appreciate trad (or preppy or Ivy or whatever the hell you wish to call it) clothing. The "why" behind the decision to dress TRADitionally is as interesting to me as the content itself, and the "why" says a lot more about the wearer than the "what." Maybe more than the wearer wants others to know.

Cheers,
Harris


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## jrleague (May 12, 2004)

I think the truth is that, for better or worse, Tucker represents the Trad look to the masses. And in my opinion, rightfully so. He wears the sacks and the leisure handsewns. He wears the straight bows and the Mercer forward points. Do I like everything he wears? No, I hate when he puts on a spread collar, and that much moreso because he wears it with a bow. A horrible look. But on most days, I think he gets it right in terms of wearing something that is visually appealing as well as playing with color, which is a nice change of pace from the puritanism of George Will (who I like much more as a commentator).

Tucker's hair is the by-product of a number of influences. He's a DeadHead, having gone to many shows over the years. So am I, so I respect that. He also wears the hair that thousands of frat boys throughout the Southeast wear, the "frat mop" or whatever you want to call it. It is not the hairstyle that leftist revolutionaries or neo-hippies would ever wear . . . they look upon it as pejoratively as they look upon three-piece suits. 

This certainly is a generational thing. I would think that old WWII stalwart would like to punch Tucker square in the mouth. I respect that because that's his generational perception of what a man should wear. However, I'm sure that J. Press and I know for a fact that Randy Hanauer thank Tucker each and every day for his sartorial efforts, because he brings these fine establishments a substantial amount of business.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by jrleague_
> 
> I think the truth is that, for better or worse, Tucker represents the Trad look to the masses. And in my opinion, rightfully so. He wears the sacks and the leisure handsewns. He wears the straight bows and the Mercer forward points. Do I like everything he wears? No, I hate when he puts on a spread collar, and that much moreso because he wears it with a bow. A horrible look. But on most days, I think he gets it right in terms of wearing something that is visually appealing as well as playing with color, which is a nice change of pace from the puritanism of George Will (who I like much more as a commentator).
> 
> ...


I was a Southern "frat boy," and, yes, I recall the (as you put it) "frat mop." On my college campus, it was known as the "Dixie Fro," and was thought to have originated on the McCallie campus. When we graduated, got jobs, married, and had kids...

...we got haircuts.

-Harris


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## 3button Max (Feb 6, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by jmorgan32_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Chaps (Feb 27, 2006)

On Mr. Carlson's show last night he claimed he was tired of wearing neckwear, as he had done this since he was ten years old, and therefore would cease to wear his signature bowties. Not a particulary tradly move in my humble opinion.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Chaps_
> 
> On Mr. Carlson's show last night he claimed he was tired of wearing neckwear, as he had done this since he was ten years old, and therefore would cease to wear his signature bowties. Not a particulary tradly move in my humble opinion.


I don't know if anybody noticed, but in the past five days he swore off the bowtie and got a haircut.

Does the influence of AAAC strike again? Who knows.

Funny.

Cheers,
Harris


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## gator (Feb 23, 2006)

April 12, 2006 | 11:50 a.m. ET

Goodbye bowtie (Tucker Carlson)



MSNBC Cable; NBC News; Tucker Carlson
If youâ€™ve watched the show before, you may have noticed that I look different. Iâ€™m not wearing a bow tie. This is odd for me. Iâ€™ve worn a bow tie on television every night for the past six years, and for 15 years off-air before that. Since I was in the 10th grade. I like bow ties. Iâ€™ve certainly spent a lot of time defending them.

But from now on, Iâ€™m going without. No ties at all. 

No, I didnâ€™t lose a bet. It is not a political statement. I didnâ€™t ditch the bowtie as a protest, or in solidarity with any oppressed group. Itâ€™s not a ratings ploy. I just decided I wanted to give my neck a break. A little change is good once in a while. I feel better already.

So to the three of you who watched for the bowtie, Iâ€™m sorry. To the rest of you, who donâ€™t take a position on neckwear one way or the other, we now return to our regularly scheduled programming.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

Tucker is having a personal development moment. He has hit the point where the Tucker the person is conflicted with Tucker the TV persona. While I do believe the person on TV is more or less similar to the real Tucker, I think there was some caricature element of "young conservative" being played up. Let's face it, TV hosts have to generate buzz. Some have experience, like Begala or Carville. Others have a marketable on screen angle, which I think is what Tucker nurtured.

Now it has worn thin, and he has probably developed something bordering on neurosis over the bow-tie cracks.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

This is not good. I'm starting to lose faith myself, now that a staunch 'trad' like Tucker is wavering.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Doctor Damage_
> 
> This is not good. I'm starting to lose faith myself, now that a staunch 'trad' like Tucker is wavering.


I don't think it is a question of wavering. Rather, I believe he is sick of the Tucker costume.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by I_Should_Be_Working_
> 
> I don't think it is a question of wavering. Rather, I believe he is sick of the Tucker costume.


Good point. Your comment reminds me of Hunter Thompson, who apparently greatly detested his 'Dr Gonzo' image (and Gary Trudeau for disseminating it), but could never escape it as it provided for most of his fame and nosh in the later years. Tucker probably has arrived at a similar love/hate point...


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## 3button Max (Feb 6, 2006)

W/ Tucker-lets face it- a paid"entertainer" in a sense- there is a certain amount of schtick in any of this, and the bow tie or lack therof generates buzz ergo commercial sponsors ratings etc. I never cared about his birthright, lineage, education etc, just liked the ties Ihave seen in his pictures.
If it was all costume that is ok w/ me too.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by gator_
> 
> April 12, 2006 | 11:50 a.m. ET
> 
> ...


"OH-MY-GAWD!" as Jonathan Quayle Higgins, V.C., would say on Magnum P.I.

What is the world coming to? And on a day when I wore a bowtie to court because I felt like I hadn't been doing it enough recently!

As one of the three people who watched only because he wore a bowtie, that's it for me.


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## GreyFlannelMan (Jun 16, 2004)

This is confirmation that TC is not Trad. He has either sold out to the critics of the bow tie, or is having some sort of mid-life crisis. Or both. And I like him less for this nonsense.

He's the one who insisted on the bow tie every day, so if he's sick of it, he's got no one else to blame. 

By contrast, George Will only wears the bow tie every so often. It doesn't seem like a prop with him. But then again, GW seems a lot more genuine in the first place.


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## ugradintern (May 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DartmouthMan88_
> 
> I have noticed that when his name comes up there are always some who seem to look upon Tucker with great disdain, why? He embodies to me what trad is, bow ties, sacks, grosgrain, he is conservative in his views as the day is long. Granted, the haircut may be a little non-trad but other than that I think he is spot on. He is intellectual, witty with a hint of bridled sarcasm and is not afraid to speak his mind and seemingly fears no reprisal from anyone. I ask again, for those of you who have expressed your dislike, why?


There is something in his style that seems too polished to be genuinely trad. It seems artificial, something out of a catalog... but not a Press catalog. His conservatism seems to be derived more from a craving of the instillment of values that are held by the elite conservatives rather than values that were instilled in him naturally as a result of him being either an elite thinker or of an elite clan. His messy hair is what throws people off... is he so trad, that he doesn't care how is hair looks?


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

What would be interesting: if he started wearing Mercer OCBDs and long emblematic/club ties from Press, Chipp, Eljo's, and O' Connell's. And trimmed the hair on the back (no need to trim on top, eh?). I say "Go for it, Tucker!" 

That'd be Tradtastic.


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## lawschool82 (Oct 29, 2005)

Evidently he is taking a call from a viewer tonight about his sudden decision not to wear the bow. It should be interesting.


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## blantons (Apr 4, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Louis M_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent post. I'm honestly surprised this point of view isn't discussed more. I simply cannot believe that JS is naive about the amount of control he has over the 18-25 voting demographic, and it was very disingenuous and hypocritical to accuse others of not fulfilling their responsibility to public discourse while at the same time absolving himself from the same.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Some chick on her blog (www.sleepygirl.org) has the following post about Tucker, accompanied by a nice photo of the man looking stern:

_Dear Tucker Carlson,

I want to bling you in the blinging bling. I want to bling you so hard it makes my bling hurt. I want to bling all the Republican rhetoric out of you, and leave you blinging for more. I want your eyes to well up with blings as I run my fingers through your hair and whisper dreams of socialized health care and a multi-lingual society in your ear. Itâ€™ll be alright, my little right-wing lover, it will be beautiful.

Love,
Heather Schmidt_

Someone out there loves ya, Tucker!


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