# How should the shoulders fit on a suit?



## TheShaun (Jun 3, 2010)

How much "over hang" should the shoulders on a jacket have? Presumably they should have a bit of a lip.


----------



## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

TheShaun said:


> Presumably they should have a bit of a lip.


Lip? Not sure what that is.


----------



## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

TheShaun said:


> Presumably they should have a bit of a lip.


Not really, why is it you think that?


----------



## Ekphrastic (Oct 4, 2009)

I think that, by "lip," he means a small amount of overhang in the shoulder padding.

To answer your question, it depends. (There, how's that for being vague?) It's a question of proportions, really--how wide is your face, how wide are your shoulders, etc. 

Additionally, some RTW suit makers size their shoulders quite differently, so it's good to know what kind of style you're after. For example, RTW makers Joseph Abboud and Hickey Freeman (who would probably be characterized as making an "American" suit) have, often, wide shoulders--about 19.5" on a size 40. Bookster, however, who offers a more fitted (an "English") look, has shoulders that measure 18" on a size 40. (Of course, Bookster has elements of MTM--they're not the strictest example of RTW, and they allow you to widen or narrow shoulders to your taste--but you get the idea.)

As always, YMMV.


----------



## TheShaun (Jun 3, 2010)

My question stems from a suit that I have from wizard of aahs, a baroni. the over hang seems to be the same as other jackets i have but the sleeve doesn't seem to hang straight down, but rather looks like the shoulders overhang too much. it's a size 40 and I think a 38 would be too small. Do these baroni's from WOA run a bit big?


----------



## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

TheShaun said:


> Presumably they should have a bit of a lip.


Not sure I like the idea of my suit talking back to me....

JK.

This is a good example. Taken from UprCrust WAYWT.









But look at this Oxxford more defined shoulders.


----------



## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Enough already. Shoulders shouldn't overhang period. Get a measuring tape and measure the Baroni, then measure your other jackets. A quarter inch counts in shoulders, a half inch an even bigger deal. Shoulders are padded usually. The amount of padding determines the shape of the shoulder. Padding is placed on top of the shoulder, not out over the shoulder. Padding determines a full shoulder, a semi full shoulder, a soft shoulder, a natural shoulder. And that's it. If the shoulder of the jacket hangs out over the shoulder of your clothed body, you've got the wrong size or the wrong manufacturer.


----------



## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Much literature has been written on this topic...

I especially like this test:


jrd said:


> Put a shoulder against the wall. If the padding hits the wall before you shoulder bone, the shoulders are too wide.


https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?56718-Perfect-shoulder-width
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?96856-How-do-I-determine-my-shoulder-width
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?41204-Correct-fit-of-a-suit-shoulder
https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=214759
https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=166741
https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=126574
https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=111279


----------



## godeacs (Nov 28, 2009)

Very little, if any, lip -- snug, but not tight.


----------



## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

A few of my suits have very defined shoulders that, at first glance, I thought might be too wide. I used both the wall method as well as simply pulled the coat up my shoulder a bit to see what it would look like. What I found was that it wasn't a matter of the width on the shoulders that made it look like it overhung a bit, it was the construction. Some suits just do that more than others. That being said, use the wall method and make sure it's not too much.


----------



## Jaxson613 (Oct 17, 2008)

Can jacket shoulders that overhang the natural shoulder be brought in without causing a problem as to how the sleeve attaches?


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Be careful with the various "tests," etc. Remember that the shoulder does not end at a certain point definable with mathematical precision... that obviously and inherently means that there's going to be some discretion in where the shoulder ends. Don't try and read a word formula on the internet to determine whether a jacket's shoulders fit you; it's an inherently visual and tactile exercise. 

Alterations to shoulders are among the most costly and difficult alterations, and among those with the riskiest outcomes.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

It can be done by a skilled tailor, but it's a big job, that will likely involve adjustments to the chest too, so it is very costly and may not produce a fully satisfactory result: always consider the shoulder/chest fit first when buying a new coat. [oops, CD posted while I was composing}


----------



## Hanzo (Sep 9, 2009)

I think its just going to happen with certain people and certain suits. Everyone is built differently. It happens to me a lot with more built up shoulders because my arms don't hang straight down from the shoulder socket. They bow out a bit. The more Italian the style of the shoulder, the more pronounced it is on me.

Take a look at this picture. You know Prince Charles isn't wearing the wrong size coat and the shoulder isn't built up very much, but it still happens.









Heck, in this suit, it's hanging on a manaquin and you still see a bit of a shoulder dimple.









A suit isn't as elastic as skin or a tight, thin tshirt, so it's going to bunch up a bit when you raise your arm. And depending n how your arm hangs in relation to how the sleeve hangs, sometimes this happens.


----------



## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Good post, Hanzo. Here's a photo of Fred Astaire showing the same thing:









Unless your arms hang plumb-bob-straight-down out of your shoulder sockets (and that's rare on men who have not just been released from a concentration camp), the only way for a sleeve to fall down is to have _some_ "overhang" at the shoulder. The truth is that different men have different preferences on how much of this they want. I respectfully disagree with assertions that a tenth or quarter of an inch off of some platonic ideal renders the suit a poor fit. There _isn't_ a precise platonic ideal, at least not at that level of precision.

For better or worse, this is yet another area where a man (and his tailor) must use a bit of judgment to decide what looks best, and what falls within the range of acceptability. And the best way, in my view, to enhance the quality of that judgment is to look at well-dressed men (in person, on film, or in photos) - and at yourself in the mirror.


----------

