# I'm over this whole functional sleeve buttonholes thing.



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Maybe 1% of people will notice it. Unlike with shirt cuffs, you don't actually need to use them. It looks really weird when people leave one or more undone just to show that they have them. Sleeve length adjustment becomes a headache for you or the future generations who may wear it.

Really, I just see no point these days. Now, let me go hitch up the Heathen-Mobile...


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

I have to share the same sentiments after all these years. I would not bother with working cuffs unless I go fully bespoke as (as you say) they can be a pain to deal with when trying to lengthen and shorten sleeves or install.


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## CRMW (Nov 7, 2009)

Even on bespoke, I'd rather spend the money on better material.


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

The bottom button left open is close to the top of my "peeves" list.
In days of yore working sleeve button holes were the sign of bespoke tailoring. Today many of the cheapest off-shore made suits have open button holes- the added cost to make them is just pennies in off shore factories. As has been pointed out, this can make sleeve adjustment difficult and costly. We have been in business since 1945- in all that time we have had 2 customers who really used the open button holes. We still have many customers who want them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If one doesn't mind the cost incurred and one likes them, why not?
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
www.chipp2.com/blog/


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## rbstc123 (Jun 13, 2007)

I stand with you sir!



Jovan said:


> Maybe 1% of people will notice it. Unlike with shirt cuffs, you don't actually need to use them. It looks really weird when people leave one or more undone just to show that they have them. Sleeve length adjustment becomes a headache for you or the future generations who may wear it.
> 
> Really, I just see no point these days. Now, let me go hitch up the Heathen-Mobile...


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I don't own any but I do like the look better than buttons sew onto nothing.

Even having the button stitching present for a faux hole is better!!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL. I'm not sure I have anything to get over. At risk of embarrassing myself and in the interest of candor, I must admit that when I first read in an AAAC thread of functioning button holes in suit and sport coat sleeves, I checked my closet and , lo and behold, found that I did have a jacket with functioning button holes (that I had not realized that I had!). I subsequently purchased an MTM jacket that I requested be made with functioning button holes (I think it added about $70 to the cost of the jacket). Neither jacket has ever been worn without all the cuff buttons on the sleeves secured. Guess I am not much of a sartorialist but, I do seem gullible eek! Away with those useless functional sleeve buttons; hear hear!


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

My tailor doesn't charge me anything extra for working buttonholes on the jacket sleeves, so there's no trade off. I agree that they are not the sign of quality that they once were.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Jovan:

But I just started!:icon_smile:

And I do unbutton one button on each sleeve, and hope someday someone will ask me about it (so I can gloat!).

Actually I just do it for me - the psychological feeling of quality and luxury and correctness - but then I have a low threshold in that area!:crazy:


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## Barrister & Solicitor (Jan 10, 2007)

Andy said:


> Actually I just do it for me - the psychological feeling of quality and luxury and correctness - but then I have a low threshold in that area!:crazy:


Andy, what about "correctness"? is there something historically correct about unbuttoning the button closest to the elbow?


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## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree with many of the points that working sleeve buttons can make shortening sleeves both difficult and expensive but it isn't something that any good tailor shouldn't be able to accomplish. I certainly agree that in certain situations it can seem pretentious when someone has their sleeves unbuttoned completely especially if they are too long to begin with. I don't own any suits with working sleeves but I own two sport coats one cotton pincord and another a plain cotton. I usually wear then in the spring and summer and there are some instances when it gets really hot and I can unbutton the cuffs and roll up my sleeves half way and then re-button them to keep them from unfolding without loosing the formality of having a jacket on.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

FWIW, I once had a suitcoat sleeve snag on something, and it ripped off two buttons on one side. I said to hell with it, and cut off ALL the buttons, both sleeves, and I don't recall that anyone ever noticed


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with doing it on your own clothing. If you like the touch, go for it. I'm not about to start scolding people on button-hole correctness. But I do detest the practice of putting working buttons on the sleeves of OTR sport coats. This makes it impossible to shorten the sleeves without either deforming them or paying nearly $100 for the sleeve to be taken up at the shoulder. Really grinds my gears.


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## LanceW (Jun 2, 2009)

A few weeks ago I actually had an opportunity to unbutton my jacket sleeves in what felt like an appropriate occasion. 

I had recently picked up a Brioni off of the bay and had a local seamstress add cuffs. Unfortunately, the break was much too long and with a few other jackets that needed to be brought in due to some recent weight loss, I took the Brioni along for the ride and decided to let a professional fix the cuffs.

I decided that morning I would prefer just wearing the suit to the tailors and change out of it once there rather than have to change into it and then change out of it again. However, visiting my alterations tailor is a bit of a drive. You see, he is in Memphis and a trip to Memphis deserves ribs. When I arrived to Memphis, it was near lunch and I drove straight to for some dry rub ribs. There I was, downstairs in a hole-in-the-wall type place where you literally have to walk in from an ally. When the enormous platter was delivered, I rolled up both my jacket and shirt sleeves and had a great time. I also giggled inside like a little schoolgirl because of the opportunity to roll my sleeves.

Was I overdressed for the location? Absolutely, but I was merely dressed for the day ahead and I would certainly do it again


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

I'm over the whole buttons on the sleeve thing, period. Functional, non-functional, kissing, any of them. I want suits with no lapels and no buttons. How you like them apples? :icon_smile_big:

Is the story true about how the buttons were originally put on sleeves to prevent soldiers from wiping their noses and face with them? If so, then "functioning" buttons have never had a true function. The non-functioning buttons serve just as well as do functioning buttons for their intended purpose.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

Since 1970 all my bespoke suits have them. I am not a doctor who they were first made for. As as I am concerned they can do away with them.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

I think working sleeve buttons look good when the jacket or blazer has *shanked buttons*. Here I can see an obvious difference. The buttons look flush and part of the jacket, instead of flopping around and jangling together. This is the reason why I have working sleeve buttons on my blazers.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Well, I'm not over them. Especially since I just figured out how to make functional buttonholes myself.(Thank-you The Cutter and Tailor forum)


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

It seem best that you just say no to functioning buttons holes.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

kitonbrioni said:


> It seem best that you just say no to functioning buttons holes.


Wow! You actually commented on something..... I thought I would never see the day.


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## Anon 18th Cent. (Oct 27, 2008)

Well, I like them. If not, why bother to have buttons?


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## ykurtz (Mar 7, 2007)

I'll get the functional buttons when it makes sense to do so, but it's fairly low on my list of must haves. I'd rather spend tailoring $ on fit.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

jean-paul sartorial said:


> I'm over the whole buttons on the sleeve thing, period. Functional, non-functional, kissing, any of them. I want suits with no lapels and no buttons. How you like them apples? :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Is the story true about how the buttons were originally put on sleeves to prevent soldiers from wiping their noses and face with them? If so, then "functioning" buttons have never had a true function. The non-functioning buttons serve just as well as do functioning buttons for their intended purpose.


Supposedly, Napoleon did this, as he promoted from the ranks and not all of his officers were "gentlemen". But buttons don't get near your mouth when you're using sleeve-as-napkin, so who knows? I've also heard that doctors didn't have any partcular need for them. I guess, maybe, that if your culture says "jacket on at all times", they could be useful if you need to do something kinda messy, _vis _Brother LanceW _supra_


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I've never had functioning buttons on my jacket cuffs, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to leave one unbuttoned. Why? Just because I could.

Cruiser


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> I've never had functioning buttons on my jacket cuffs, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to leave one unbuttoned. Why? Just because I could.
> 
> Cruiser


Entirely correct, sir. BTW I agree with MikeDT about the shanked buttons/working holes.


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## Politely (May 8, 2008)

I have jackets that have functional buttonholes and jackets that don't. I would rather have real buttonholes, but don't mind if I don't. No one notices, and I don't leave a button undone to get noticed, either. It's just a detail I like, similar to cordovan vs. calf leather or horn or MOP vs plastic buttons.


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## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

I have one suit that has them. I am sure NO ONE notices. If they come with the suit, nice touch, but I wouldn't pay extra for them. It's not even a detail to me, because I think that unless someone played with them they couldn't tell on a good suit...the ones with nothing but a button, however...


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

kitonbrioni said:


> It seem best that you just say no to functioning buttons holes.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> I've never had functioning buttons on my jacket cuffs, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to leave one unbuttoned. Why? Just because I could.
> 
> Cruiser


Just about proves the point, doesn't it.


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## gordgekko (Nov 12, 2004)

On those rare circumstances I've seen someone with an unbuttoned button on their sleeve I tend to laugh.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

I'll repeat my FBH story. First off, from over-seas tailors like Ravi they only add $15, total, to the cost of the jacket--a small investment.

And then you may get lucky. I was sitting next to a captain-of-industry banker type and was reaching for my drink when he noticed my sleve. "Do those button holes really work?" He asked. I popped a couple to show they did indeed unbutton. "These don't do anything," he displayed what was probably a Brioni with the faux holes." I couldn't resist.

"They probably sold you a second, or maybe it's a knock off." The look on his face was priceless.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

kitonbrioni said:


> It seem best that you just say no to functioning buttons holes.


I literally have never seen you post a reply to _anything_ on this forum besides your lists of clothes to the WAYWT threads.



ZachGranstrom said:


> Wow! You actually commented on something..... I thought I would never see the day.





Cruiser said:


> I've never had functioning buttons on my jacket cuffs, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to leave one unbuttoned. Why? Just because I could.
> 
> Cruiser


And that's the reason I shouldn't have them put in. I would find the temptation hard to resist.  No but really, I agree with Bog.

My reaction exactly. Though I did see him post short replies from time to time on Style Forum.


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

Timing is everything - the WSJ has an article (not particularly definitive) titled "No Excuse for a Cheap Suit" Their #3 sign of quality out of 6 is FUNCTIONAL BUTTON HOLES.

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703882404575519760242023490.html

Personally I like them, I have them on a small percentage of my suits and jackets but I am trending towards more rather than less.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

*Practicality*

_In Favor of Working Cuff-Buttons:_ Nothing, by my lights. I may wear clothes differently from some people. If I'm eating something so messy that I need to roll up my _jacket_ sleeves, I'm taking the jacket off. If it's that messy, I don't want the jacket in the vicinity, sleeves rolled up or not. Okay, I _suppose_ if I'm eating something in an environment that's sufficiently cold that I _must_ keep my jacket on in order to remain warm ... aw, never mind: if that ever happens to me, I'll worry about it then. Over a half-century down, a good bit of it in cold environments, and it's never come up once.

Not that it's relevant to non-doctors, but doctors almost certainly don't need them. Surgeons and ER docs not only don't wear suit (or sport) coats when working, they don't even wear ordinary shirts. They wear scrubs. And who can blame them? Internists and most other doctors generally can avoid getting messy (with the exception of pediatricions, interventional cardiologists and few others), but even they are more often seen in white lab coats, scrubs (when appropriate), and - nowadays - polos and T-shirts.

_Against:_ On a real bespoke suit, not much against, other than the fact the jacket can't be altered to be worn by your son or random thrift-shop patrons.

On the other hand, any maker who puts working cuff buttons on a ready-to-wear suit should be strung up by his wrists, if only because it may stretch his arms enough that he'll never have to worry about shortining sleeves. Here's a sentence that indicates the WSJ article above was written by someone who doesn't know what he's talking about: "Badly tailored suits, like many off-the-peg numbers, will have closed buttons at the wrist." First of all, the writer's not even a good writer, as he's used the word "closed" with some hitherto unknown meaning. Second, it isn't "many" off-the-rack suits that have non-functional cuff buttons, it's _all_ of them, except a few made by brands who've outsourced to substandard Asian factories.

*Style*

The fact that working cuff buttons are purely ornamental isn't a strike against them. It's not a mark in their favor, either ... nor is the fact that non-working cuff buttons (and various other buttons, buttonholes, flaps and assorted gizmos) are also purely ornamental. Lots of things are ornamental and desirable (even near-mandatory), while lots of other things are ornamental and awful.

I'd classify working cuff buttons as neither mandatory nor awful. Desirable: eh, maybe. Traditionally, they were reliably associated with bespoke suits, which has the positive and negative characteristics of: (a) drawing attention to the fact your suit is "special" and more expensive and (b) drawing attention to the fact your suit is "special" and more expensive. I suppose my take on the negative would be: if there isn't enough benefit to the look of a custom tailored suit anyway (in the perfect fit, ideal fabric choice, etc.) the little fillip of working buttons doesn't justify the expense. On the other hand: why not?

The problem of the buttonholes as a "status signifier" is that they're pretty much on verge of losing it. For one thing, working button have suddently begun to appear as a particularly ill-considered "feature" on badly-made ready-to-wear jackets. For another: it's not like you can't have just about any alteration tailor put them in your ready-to-wear suit when they alter your sleeve length anyway.

And, finally: consider that WSJ blurb again. How many readers are traveling to Hong Kong to buy bespoke suits? What the typical reader is going to apply the advice to is cheap made-to-measure suits. I don't know the statistics, but I suspect the average price paid for such a suit is a good bit lower than the average price of a mid-market off-the-rack suit from a US retailer. With the notion that working cuff buttons, all by themselves, make a suit "good" or "bad," you can expect them increasingly to be found on jackets that are otherwise no great shakes.


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## gordgekko (Nov 12, 2004)

deanayer said:


> Timing is everything - the WSJ has an article (not particularly definitive) titled "No Excuse for a Cheap Suit" Their #3 sign of quality out of 6 is FUNCTIONAL BUTTON HOLES


I guess we should be buying Hugo Boss and Old Navy because both have recently featured coats with working button holes.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

The $30 chino blazer I just got from Land's End has button holes. As does my Polo Ralph Lauren Blazer. And my Zegna.

So there are three items, all OTR, from casual to somewhat formal and dirt cheap to somewhat expensive. All with functioning sleeve buttons.


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

I actually only have working cuffs (which I asked to be installed) for one of my regatta blazers and they do serve a function: I can undo all the buttons and roll up my sleeves when punting to avoid taking my blazer off.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

LanceW said:


> A few weeks ago I actually had an opportunity to unbutton my jacket sleeves in what felt like an appropriate occasion...


If you missed the above, you might want to check it out (#14). It's really good.



kitonbrioni said:


> It seem best that you just say no to functioning buttons holes.


Garbo talks! (But who cares.)

And, Mike...



MikeDT said:


> I think working sleeve buttons look good when the jacket or blazer has *shanked buttons*.


...and use cold water to get out the blood spatter because I don't know what you're talking about. Something to do with doing time maybe.

Personally, I think the judgement on functioning buttons is owner preference. Except with flies. If those don't work and you're into the Old Milwaukee, could you please not stand next to me.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Shanked buttons are buttons that have a hard hook they can be attached by rather than simply holes. Most gold blazer buttons are shanked buttons. Unlike buttons with holes, which can be made to lie flat against the cloth, shanked buttons always stand up. On the sleeves, they tend to hit each other, and make noise. Likewise, shanded huttons with a design can turn and cause said design to be sideways or even upside down. This is easily prevented by having all shanked buttons in real button holes. Ultimately, even non buttoning buttons on a blazer or uniform should be in holes, to facilitate their easier removal when cleaning is necessary. This (as seen in the three peice blazer suit) enables complete removal of all buttons. A similar technique is commonly used for uniforms which have completely removable buttons which are held by a peice of tape on the inside of the jacket.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Going off the theory that buttons were added to suits for decorative purposes, it would make sense that the working button holes are yet another form of decoration.

Does anyone notice? Maybe a small fraction of the populace, but the same goes for that expensive watch you've got on your wrist. But you know and you appreciate it.

As for me, I'm okay with sub $10k watches and I'm okay with faux button holes.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Used to have my CMT put fake button holes on the sleeve. Silly enough, but I like the look. I have several inexpensive OTR casual jackets in a cut similar to a suit jacket that have working sleeve button holes. Being of the stub-armed clan, rather than shortening the sleeve, I simply unbutton a button or two and turn back the cuff.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

Your choice entirely but if one has a decent cutter/tailor he will manage to get the sleeve length correct before cutting the button holes.

Subsequent users - should you be so charitable - are irrelevant.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

Bog said:


> Shanked buttons are buttons that have a hard hook they can be attached by rather than simply holes.


Thank you for that. I have those. Didn't know _shanked _was the name. Some I have are removable, attached through the lining by a hair pin cotter. I like to learn new phrases. Except this one maybe...



> ...likewise, _shanded huttons_ with a design...


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

CRMW said:


> Even on bespoke, I'd rather spend the money on better material.


Why not have the best of everything? If it's not buttonholes it's someone arguing over and over again that fit is more important than cloth. I believe it is but there's really no need to cut corners or skimp on anything.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Standard issue on my suits. You can really tell a difference in a nice hand stitched button hole rather than a machined functioning one though I think.



paul winston said:


> The bottom button left open is close to the top of my "peeves" list.
> In days of yore working sleeve button holes were the sign of bespoke tailoring. Today many of the cheapest off-shore made suits have open button holes- the added cost to make them is just pennies in off shore factories. As has been pointed out, this can make sleeve adjustment difficult and costly. We have been in business since 1945- in all that time we have had 2 customers who really used the open button holes. We still have many customers who want them. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If one doesn't mind the cost incurred and one likes them, why not?
> Paul Winston
> Winston Tailors
> ...


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## Scott Hill (Jun 9, 2009)

The purpose for working button holes or functioning button holes is to show the quality of the sartorial, hand made products. It has nothing to do with rolling up ones sleeves. A proper hand made jacket, would not be finished with "no button holes" or by slapping on the buttons without button holes or button thread around the button.. at the very least. Many stores try to imitate working button holes by doing them by machine. In this instance, I feel.. why not do it properly is you're doing it at all. Personally, I would not put a machine finishing on a "hand made garment". As one comment was made, it is personal, and an idication of quality finishing.. and not a short cut. One would not have to pay extra for working button holes; when buying a proper hand made garment.. as it is included in the price of the garment. 

Many consumers purchase used clothing on e bay and find the working buttonholes in the wrong position; and then find it difficut to adjust sleeve length.. due to their having been placed for the previous owner. This is one of the problems associated with buying used clothing on e bay. Many others buy older, sartorial clothing that is NEW on e bay and then hope to find a tailor that has the expertise to put working buttons by hand. Others slap the buttons on and go.. This is like putting ketchup on your morzzerella. 

Either way, IMHO working button holes are a work of art and something to take pride in on garments that are made expressly for the original owner.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Scott Hill said:


> Either way, IMHO working button holes are a work of art....


Bosh.

My mother put working button holes (lots of 'em) into dresses she made for my sisters. There's no "high art" in making a buttonhole.

A working cuff buttonhole is just a little tag that says "custom made," except that it's on the outside instead of the inside and - nowadays - it's unreliable.


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## DocVenture (Sep 30, 2010)

Anyone know when "fake" buttons first appeared? I assume, perhaps wrongly, that at some point all cuff buttons were "working."


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Starch said:


> Bosh.
> 
> My mother put working button holes (lots of 'em) into dresses she made for my sisters. There's no "high art" in making a buttonhole.
> 
> A working cuff buttonhole is just a little tag that says "custom made," except that it's on the outside instead of the inside and - nowadays - it's unreliable.


Starch, I must disagree. I don't know about the "art" part, but a beautiful hand made buttonhole looks very different from the kind of machined buttonhole you get on a commodity-type jacket, or even a good, Brooks-type suit. Some tailors take great pride in their buttonholes, the kind of hand-detail that sets their garments apart.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

An advantage, to me, of functioning buttonholes (particularly on heavier fabrics) is that the buttons lie more flush and secure against the sleeve. With merely stitched-on buttons, they stand off the fabric a touch more, and are more likely to drag/click/catch against a desk or table edge. It's a small thing, but pretty much everything we talk about on AAAC is a small thing.


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## ESilver (Jul 1, 2005)

I recently took one of my Zegna blazers to my tailor to have the sleeves shortened. When it was returned, something seemed different but I did not notice right away. Later, I realized he had removed the faux buttonhole stitching, along with the button overlap. 

When I returned to inquire he told me he could not leave the stitching in place because it would have been too close to the edge of the sleeve (and shortening from the shoulder would have cost more than $100.00). The stitching could not be restored because he did not have the $10,000 machine that creates it -- but my local Nordstrom's does and they charge about $120.00 for that service. Finally, he said he removed the button overlap because, when the jacket is pressed, they will eventually break if they overlap. 

I was not initially happy with the result but his logic was sound and the sleeves did not look bad, just naked. I am aware that new Zegna suits and jackets do not have buttons sewn on at all so sleeves can be more easily altered and some people are opting to get the faux stitches and overlapping buttons, while others are keeping it plain. 

In the end, the fit of the jacket is what matters -- and it fits wonderfully -- and there are other small details to excite the senses so the button detail will not be sorely missed on this one jacket. My others, thank goodness, all have correct sleeve lengths and will continue to look as the designer intended.


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## hockeyinsider (May 8, 2006)

phyrpowr said:


> Supposedly, Napoleon did this, as he promoted from the ranks and not all of his officers were "gentlemen". But buttons don't get near your mouth when you're using sleeve-as-napkin, so who knows? I've also heard that doctors didn't have any partcular need for them. I guess, maybe, that if your culture says "jacket on at all times", they could be useful if you need to do something kinda messy, _vis _Brother LanceW _supra_


Military jackets have, at least since the 17th century, always had four or five sleeve/cuff buttons.


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## damon54 (Dec 12, 2007)

I find the overlapping or "tiled" sleeve buttons much more puzzling.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

damon: I had a cheap overseas suit made a few years ago that had "waterfall" sleeve buttons. I didn't ask for it and I'm not sure I like it.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

The overlapping buttons are often referred to as "kissing." They represent a mid-point in handwork between spaced buttons and functioning buttons. There are (usually) no buttonholes to work, so that saves a bunch of construction time versus surgeon's cuffs, but it is my understanding that getting them on does require some hand work, rather than a totally automated process.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Well, good for you sir! But I want every coat in my wardrobe to have functional cuff buttons.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes, good for me! I'll live without them so I can focus on much more important details. 

More seriously, I'm glad my thread has stirred up such varied opinions.


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## ESilver (Jul 1, 2005)

Jovan said:


> damon: I had a cheap overseas suit made a few years ago that had "waterfall" sleeve buttons. I didn't ask for it and I'm not sure I like it.


It seems that more "cheap" suits have those nowadays.

When I was at my tailors he pointed out three other jackets that were also being altered. From the sleeves, I presumed they were Armani or Zegna but they were not. One was Tasso Elba and the other two were unknown brands (with an MSRP of $250).


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Probably excellent evidence of how many suits are now made in appalling conditions, where human labor costs pennies an hour.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Ignore everything in this video and concentrate on this guy's sleeves. I can't tell if they have functional buttons or not, but if they did no can say that's a $250 jacket.


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## MikeDT (Aug 22, 2009)

Looks to me like he's got a sleeve button missing. 2 visible on right sleeve, 3 visible on left. If he was showing off by leaving sleeve buttons undone, surely he would have undone a button on both sleeves.

Gorgeous car though.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Cruiser said:


> I've never had functioning buttons on my jacket cuffs, but if I did I wouldn't hesitate to leave one unbuttoned. Why? *Just because I could*.
> 
> Cruiser


Damn right! You don't need your Ferrari's 500+ horses, but you have them cuz you can!


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Button, button, who's got - or not got - the button!*

Sleeve buttons appeared long before Napoleon, or Frederick the Great - another attributee - for that matter. They were used to keep the large cuffs from flopping down. They migrated a bit in the English Regency to close the tight-fitted wrists then fashionable, after allowing the hand to emerge.

Surgeons in the 19th Century always kept their frock coats on, even when operating. So functional sleeve buttons had a purpose for them that is no longer the case with scrubs. Although, from Eakins's "The Gross Clinic," it does not appear that the eminent Dr. Gross was much concerned with that.

Sleeve buttons are, whether working or not, anachronistic ornament. They catch on things (especially shanked metal ones), and are at best tolerable - when done properly with faux or working buttonholes - and at worst annoying or - just sitting there with no pretense of being "real" - annoyingly extraneous.

That said, I haven't yet removed any, although I did snatch up a casual cotton blazer that didn't have any. Further, I put functional buttonholes into a couple of dinner jackets, first because the sleeves were designed for that possibility, and second because doing so imbedded the shanks of the loose buttons so that they don't flop around like those on other dinner suits not so equipped. Since I believe it is unlikely my arm length will change much, I am totally unconcerned about ever having to move them, and I couldn't care less about who else might be troubled by them in future.


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## damon54 (Dec 12, 2007)

Half of my suits have surgeons cuffs & it is certainly the last detail I think of (or don't) when I make a choice as to which to wear.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Same thing here. Functional sleeve buttons are a dealbreaker on RTW coats for me, since most of the time I need sleeves taken in or let out an inch. I was actually considering getting the LE Legacy Chino Blazer aforementioned by jean-paul sartorial until... well, you know. I suppose I _could_ get it just to see if it works. They have a great return policy.


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

I suppose in an odd way, a fairly cheap, "soft-constructed" and intentionally very casual blazer is the one time where you *might* at some point actually use them. You go for a walk on a nice fall day, it gets a hotter than you expected or you end up in a woodsy area... I could see myself possibly rolling up the sleeves.

I would be too afraid to mess up the sleeves on a thousand dollar bespoke (not that I own one) suit. Nor would I be likely to have one on in a situation where I would need to, other than possibly a nice Italian lunch or dinner. But then I just take off the jacket and ruin my shirt and tie instead.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I've used them in restaurants where there was a good deal of reaching (shared food) and no good place to hang/place a jacket. And have also used them while sitting outside on a bench on a warm afternoon (while waiting to be picked up). In all cases, there was no change to the condition of the sleeves.


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