# Minimum Classic Wardrobe for NYC Investment Bank



## rhk6446 (Nov 23, 2007)

Hello Fellow Members,

I have thoroughly read the forums and believe I have a good handle on the consensus views, however I would like your opinions on my opinions (knowing there will likely be many different opinions about my opinions).

I am interested in your thoughts on the minimum, classic wardrobe for a NYC investment banker. Specifically, if you lined up 100 NYC investment bankers, I want to target the 50th-60th sartorial percentile.

My stats: 5'9", 175#, 44R, 36WX29L

Overcoat:
SB, 4 button balmaraccan, center vent, 100% cashmere, slant side pockets, 3 inside pockets (incl 1 very large inside pocket). Navy & Tan. Recommended brand?

Suits:
Hickey Freeman, SB, 2B, center vent.
solid navy, solid dark gray, solid light gray, solid brown, solid tan, glen plaid, navy ps, dark gray ps, navy chalk stripe, dark gray chalk stripe, navy blazer/gold buttons, heather tweedy sportcoat, black/white houndstooth sportcoat/MOP, tan/plaid sportcoat (light fabric).
I think HF is the best value. opinions?

Allen Edmond shoes:
Park Avenue, Grayson & MacNeil, each in black and brown.
Is the shell really worth it? which is more trad: AE or Alden?

Shirts:
White, Brooks Brothers, 100% cotton, straight collar, no iron, trim fit
Personally, I think Lands End is the better value @ 50% of the cost. Am I missing something?

Socks:
70% cotton 15% spandex, 15% polyester.
solid black, solid navy, solid brown, solid tan.
Does anyone really care?

Ties:
all silk, 58"L, 3"W, 
solid black, solid red, solid brown, black w/ white polka dots, red w/ white polka dots, brown w/ white polka dots
If I only wear six ties am I making an subtle anti-establishment statement, or merely demonstrating restraint?

Gloves: Black leather
Do I need a brown pair also?

Belts: Brooks Brothers, plain black & plain brown leather, square brass buckle

What is the classic I-Banker business watch? remember, timeless, classic, minimum. The watch question disturbs me. The most accurate watch with the most functionality is a cheap Timex ironman digital. IMHO wearing an expensive watch is a contrived way of showing what economic caste you belong to. At least with clothes there are real differences in quality.

Now for your opinions?


----------



## jasonbourne (Dec 10, 2007)

watches are a question of personal taste. However as an investment banker, I think your watch should say something more than "its practical". Instead, a watch should say your successful, but not extravagant and or a danger to embezzle funds. It probably depends on what you make and or charge, (no need to disclose). Say 70-120g, a tissot will suffice, they have some nice classic styles. 120-200g a watch in the 1-2g range like an omega. 200+ I think your in rolex country and I should be asking you for advice...


----------



## cgc (Jan 27, 2007)

You list your location as Chicago, so are you moving to NYC or do you just want to dress like a Wall Street banker? It might make some difference as Chicago is much more casual than the Street and New York in general.

Most people are going to steer you away from 100% cashmere in an overcoat if it is your only one. I would get two or three wool ones to rotate instead of one pricey cashmere that will wear out quickly.

Hickey-Freeman make very nice suits although I can't think of a really good H-F retailer in Chicago. They are opening a brand store sometime this year though.

I have both LE and BB shirts and the Brooks non-iron treatment is crisper but also more noticeable when wearing. The LE fabrics are thinner and may not wear as well. I have a few of the Luxury BB non-irons that have much nicer fabric than the standard BB shirt and given your dimensions they might fit you pretty well - Luxury fit is between slim and traditional.

Consider the burgundy/merlot color for the Park Aves too. I think it is much more versatile than black.


----------



## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

You might consider posting this in the fashion forum. You don't seem to be interested in a trad perspective.

Although, I guess these days, the Trad forum isn't all that different...

JB


----------



## enecks (Apr 25, 2007)

rhk6446 said:


> The most accurate watch with the most functionality is a cheap Timex ironman digital.


While this may indeed be true (I have a 12 year old Ironman somewhere...), a digital sports watch seems inappropriate for wear with a suit; I would liken it almost to wearing running shoes with the suit. If you must eschew the expensive brands, most around would recommend an analog Timex (like the Easy-reader). If you'd be willing to pay a little bit more, a Movado might fit your minimalist bill. A simple, thin Seiko might also be a suitable alternative.


----------



## rhk6446 (Nov 23, 2007)

*Various replies*

1. I'm relocating from NYC from Chicago

2. Watches: The analogy comparing an inappropriate watch/suit & sneaker/suit combination is well made.

Therefore, in keeping with the minimalist 50/60th percentile target, Tmex, Seiko, Movado or no watch at all? When meeting with someone is it more offensive to look at the time on my blackberry than my watch?

3. Overcoat opinions ?(4):

Thank you


----------



## rhk6446 (Nov 23, 2007)

*one more thing on watches*

I work out early in the morning and then go in the steam room or sauna.

In order to stay on schedule I wear my watch in there.

So,
1. I'd prefer a metal wristband since I don't think leather would hold up
2. Would Timex survive this environment? Tissot? Omega? I think Rolex is inconsistent with my minimalist view.
Thanks again


----------



## cglex (Oct 23, 2006)

What kind of Ibanker and with what firm? Lots of people call themselves Ibankers, but there are many different roles on Wall Street with different dress, even within the same firm.

The Northeast is much warmer than Chicago in the winter. Unless you will be waiting for a train in the suburbs, I doubt you will need anything warmer than a lined rain coat like the one from Press recently mentioned on this board.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

rhk6446 said:


> Hello Fellow Members,
> 
> I have thoroughly read the forums and believe I have a good handle on the consensus views, however I would like your opinions on my opinions (knowing there will likely be many different opinions about my opinions).
> 
> ...


Your selection sounds well developed and in good taste. However, I suggest you get and read John T. Molloy's _New Dress For Success_ before spending any (more) money. 

I suggest you get in the habit of keeping your weight down now -- it will be a lot harder when you are older&#8230; 

For suits, I prefer side-vents always. Your suit selection sounds good. It seems you are past the JAB price point -- bully for you! I understand Samuelsson is in the ballpark with HF and is also good value at their price point. I suggest adding waistcoat to the solid brown and solid tan suits to increase command presence. The sport jackets sound good for social, but Molloy says no odd jacket and odd slacks for business (too bad -- I love those). 

I am not too familiar with all the models of shoes you mentioned but be sure to have some wingtips for business. For me, Cordovan has to always be that blue/purple #8 -- otherwise how will anyone know it is Cordovan? Burgundy would be a good color to add. When at all possible, always leather soles for business but you must compromise for the weather and foot health, so use your judgment. I have no opinion regarding "Trad" either way. 

I recommend no "stay-press" shirts. I like heavy starch. I know this cuts down on their longevity but, as far as I am concerned, dress shirts are a consumable item. White. ecru, or (very) light blue, only. No pink or lavender!

You seem to have a good basic selection of socks for business wear (and yes -- people do care about socks). You could add gray (I am very partial to shades of gray). For business, match/coordinate them with the suit to extend the line. Be sure, always OTC! 

You need more ties. I recommend at least two ties to go with each suit. Add some Brooks Brothers Silk Repp BB#1 Stripe Tie in appropriate colors. When you get to be a bigger fish, you can add some Hermes. 

Be sure to pay close attention to accessories! Per Molloy, black gloves are NG. If leather, then brown or gray is OK. You cannot have too many belts. You need to rotate your black belts so get more than one. You need several belts in shades of "brown", one to try to match each shade of earth tone in your shoe rotation. You need "silver" and "gold" buckets to match other metal in your outfit. 

No large watch for business -- nice and skinny. You need watches that are good enough to avoid looking like a rube so no digital or anything cheap looking. Leather band only, matched to shoes and belt. This might not apply to your line of work, but generally, you never want to meet a potential customer wearing a watch that costs more than $100 or so&#8230; 

You seem to be beyond this but I will tack on my standard rant -- absolutely none of the following for business: no solid black suit, no woven shoes (unless you have moved up from the underling level and they are classy looking bluchers), no co-respondent shoes , and never wear anything green. 

It sounds like you are ready to start on your semi-formal setup, so no notch lapel. 

Please keep us posted on your progress.


----------



## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

rhk6446 said:


> What is the classic I-Banker business watch? remember, timeless, classic, minimum. The watch question disturbs me. The most accurate watch with the most functionality is a cheap Timex ironman digital. IMHO wearing an expensive watch is a contrived way of showing what economic caste you belong to. At least with clothes there are real differences in quality.


There's a real difference in quality amongst watches, too, although price isn't the final arbiter.

If you just want something that tells time, stick with quartz. Mechanical watches, while irresistible to some of us, are far less accurate, and require tending beyond the patience of most normal people.

That being said, the classic mens' dress watch is flat, gold, and on a leather strap. You can decide on the make/model yourself, according to your preferences. It's hard to go wrong with Seiko.


----------



## cdcro (Jan 23, 2008)

KentW said:


> ... It's hard to go wrong with Seiko.


I have a perpetual seiko i wear every day, and a rolex i only wear for weddings, there's something to say for simplicity


----------



## rhk6446 (Nov 23, 2007)

ok, enough about watches.

How's this for sartorial trivia??

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmethods.htm


----------



## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

rhk6446 said:


> ok, enough about watches.
> 
> How's this for sartorial trivia??
> 
> https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmethods.htm


Is there really any need to read past the first example?


----------



## cdcro (Jan 23, 2008)

as an ex military man i only see value in left over right criss cross lacing


----------



## rhk6446 (Nov 23, 2007)

The subversive element in my personality wants to tweak the executive managing director using the hidden knot method.


----------



## ASF (Mar 6, 2006)

Joe Tradly said:


> Although, I guess these days, the Trad forum isn't all that different...
> 
> JB


JB

As the saying goes: "say it aint so, Joe".

asf


----------



## printemps2001us (Dec 20, 2007)

Orsini said:


> but generally, you never want to meet a potential customer wearing a watch that costs more than $100 or so&#8230;


Huh? Maybe if you are selling shoelaces in Des Moines. In my business, Omega is entry level, Rolex is standard fare, Patek and AP are for top dogs. Clients expect you to be successful before they hand over their money.

Although some here will say it is too casual, you can never go wrong with a Submariner.


----------



## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

I don't get the logic of ten suits but only six ties. I understand wearing a white shirt every day (and did it for 10 years) but even then I had 14 suits and well over 100 ties. Not that anyone needs 100 ties (I've culled it to fewer than 40 now) but suggest you expand your tie collection if for no other reason than to alleviate boredom and premature wear on the ties.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Brooksfan said:


> I don't get the logic of ten suits but only six ties. I understand wearing a white shirt every day (and did it for 10 years) but even then I had 14 suits and well over 100 ties. Not that anyone needs 100 ties (I've culled it to fewer than 40 now) but suggest you expand your tie collection if for no other reason than to alleviate boredom and premature wear on the ties.


One-hundred ties. Sounds like heaven.


----------



## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Orsini wrote: You seem to be beyond this but I will tack on my standard rant -- absolutely none of the following for business: no solid black suit, no woven shoes (unless you have moved up from the underling level and they are classy looking bluchers), no co-respondent shoes and never wear anything green.

Why never wear anything green? Do you include ties and suits in this restriction? I can see it for shoes, unless for Peter Pan.


----------



## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Joe Tradly said:


> You might consider posting this in the fashion forum. You don't seem to be interested in a trad perspective.
> 
> Although, I guess these days, the Trad forum isn't all that different...
> 
> JB


I agree with Joe & most investment bankers I work with don't worry about their sock material content...


----------



## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

EastVillageTrad said:


> I agree with Joe & most investment bankers I work with don't worry about their sock material content...


The most important thing is that your socks stay up, and your legs stay covered. Get over-the-calf.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

xcubbies said:


> Orsini wrote: You seem to be beyond this but I will tack on my standard rant -- absolutely none of the following for business: no solid black suit, no woven shoes (unless you have moved up from the underling level and they are classy looking bluchers), no co-respondent shoes and never wear anything green.
> 
> Why never wear anything green? Do you include ties and suits in this restriction? I can see it for shoes, unless for Peter Pan.


Molloy says not to.


----------



## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Orsini said:


> Molloy says not to.


Humpf. Well, you can tell Molloy that Xcubbies doesnt agree. I've got a great Press suit in olive that is fine, in my opinion, for everything but formal evening occasions.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

xcubbies said:


> Humpf. Well, you can tell Molloy that Xcubbies doesnt agree. I've got a great Press suit in olive that is fine, in my opinion, for everything but formal evening occasions.


If you do not agree with Molloy, that is your prerogative. However, I do not think there is any need to be unpleasant about it.


----------



## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Orsini wrote:
If you do not agree with Molloy, that is your prerogative. However, I do not think there is any need to be unpleasant about it. 

...................

Perhaps I should have affixed a smiley face to indicate that what I wrote was in jest.


----------



## 44XT (Aug 2, 2005)

The prevailing wisdom is that green is the color of money and if you work in banking it is in poor taste to remind the person across the desk from you, the real reason you are both sitting there for.


----------



## dcjacobson (Jun 25, 2007)

> Humpf. Well, you can tell Molloy that Xcubbies doesnt agree.


I don't think you can tell him anything; didn't he die a while back?
Anyway, the first Malloy book is 33 years old, and the revision is 20. I liked his book, but let's face it--it's a different world today. Maybe not for you in the NYC banking world, but where I live, tie=security guard.

By the way, help out this Minnesota rube--what is a "co-respondent shoe"?


----------



## hbecklin (Aug 22, 2007)

A word or two on dress shirts: My father, who worked for over 20 years with the best at Brown Brothers Harriman and Chase wore nothing but Lands End dress shirts. I wouldn't say he was the best dressed banker on Wall Street, but you don't seem to be aspiring to that exact point either.

I had to wear Lands End dress shirts for years at the private school I go to, and I recommend them wholeheartedly. If you're comparing a baseline Brooks to a baseline Lands End, for the price and the quality I'd go with the Lands End. Granted, I don't really like any no-iron shirts, but that's my two cents.


----------

