# Have your daughters read this:



## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/11/hook_up_culture_hurts_women_sp.html


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Thank you*

My friend

Very nice piece, and so true. Sad. What has happened to men during this time, I wonder.Thanks for posting.

Nice day


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Love that site! Well done, sir.

Whose round is it?


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

_First you give a guy oral sex and then you decide if you like him._

With that kind of attitude, no wonder they feel used. I don't know many guys that would refuse an offer like that. Have some self respect ladies.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Laxplayer said:


> _First you give a guy oral sex and then you decide if you like him._
> 
> With that kind of attitude, no wonder they feel used. I don't know many guys that would refuse an offer like that. Have some self respect ladies.


hmmmm things have sure changed sence even I was in school...If only I would have known, I could have saved alot of money on dinners and movies...the title of this thread should be* Have your sons read this:*...

...sorry...:icon_smile_big:


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> hmmmm things have sure changed sence even I was in school...If only I would have known, I could have saved alot of money on dinners and movies...the title of this thread should be* Have your sons read this:*...
> 
> ...sorry...:icon_smile_big:


LOL, very funny, Gabba.


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

Quite frankly, our modern society is screwed up. For the first time in history, we morally expect young adults to remain celibate during the time they are at their sexual peak. Up into the 50's, dating and courting were the common course and nobody scorned young people getting married in their late teens. If they weren't fooling around, this delayed having sex maybe 4 or 5 years.

Prior to that, marriage and sex were common accepted down into the mid teens. A person might have to abstain for only a year or two before becoming sexually active. (by today's standards, this is felony of course)

Now, young people are highly discouraged from getting married until they are 25 or 30 and then advised to remain celibate in the interim. Guess what, hardly anybody is going to wait 15 years to have sex. 

That just isn't realistic ****-sapien behavior and it never has been.

Alas, I cannot use the Latin name of our species on this forum, yet another lamentable fact of modern life.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Laxplayer said:


> _First you give a guy oral sex and then you decide if you like him._
> 
> With that kind of attitude, no wonder they feel used. I don't know many guys that would refuse an offer like that. Have some self respect ladies.


Right, women have the power here, just say no to hook ups if you really want to date the guy instead.

Brian


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I have a daughter in college. She talks to her mom about things she won't with me and I get the story second hand. My daughter has not had sex and has told her mother about some of her friends coming to her late at night to tell her about their loss of virginity during a party, drinking, drug use. My daughter wanted to leave school as the drinking binges of the students was not what she wanted to see. She just got word today that she and a good friend got a room for next semester in a much quieter, not as many freshman, dorm and that has made her happy. I have no delusions that at some point she will not find someone she cares for, and I hope it happens that way and not a HOOK UP.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

vwguy said:


> Right, women have the power here, just say no to hook ups if you really want to date the guy instead.
> 
> Brian


and be boyfriend and girlfriend.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

android said:


> Quite frankly, our modern society is screwed up. For the first time in history, we morally expect young adults to remain celibate during the time they are at their sexual peak. Up into the 50's, dating and courting were the common course and nobody scorned young people getting married in their late teens. If they weren't fooling around, this delayed having sex maybe 4 or 5 years.
> 
> Prior to that, marriage and sex were common accepted down into the mid teens. A person might have to abstain for only a year or two before becoming sexually active. (by today's standards, this is felony of course)
> 
> ...


I pretty much agree, and I am not convinced it is necessary other than society has generally failed to raise children into adults in a practical and timely way, largely by contriving this thing called the "teenager" -- a concept that didn't exist until the 20th century -- a creature normally granted many rights and privileges but few responsibilities.

For centuries civilized people acknowledged the interdependence and inseparability of sex, marriage, and procreation. With the advent of modern birth control this acknowledgment quickly became debatable, and now is regarded as a quaint idiosyncratic view. In this environment it is hardly surprising that unmarried women very quickly stopped saying no, and society has had hell to pay ever since.


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## Journeyman (Mar 28, 2005)

*Idiosyncratic?*



Mike Petrik said:


> For centuries civilized people acknowledged the interdependence and inseparability of sex, marriage, and procreation. With the advent of modern birth control this acknowledgment quickly became debatable, and now is regarded as a quaint idiosyncratic view. In this environment it is hardly surprising that unmarried women very quickly stopped saying no, and society has had hell to pay ever since.


Mike,

With all respect, whilst people may have previously recognised the interdependence and inseparability of sex and procreation in the past, there was still a lot of it going on outside marriage.

I think that a lot of our modern morals are still shaped by Victorian-era prudery (for want of a better word). Prior to that time, there is plenty of evidence to indicate that sex was accepted as entirely natural and desirable activity. Of course, there were no doubt some double standards between men and women - as still apply today - of stud and slut. Nonetheless, from reading contemporary literature, it is clear that pre-marital and extra-marital sex was far from uncommon in Elizabethan and Georgian times, as an example. Lambskin condoms were used by the middle- and upper-classes in an attempt to prevent pregnancy, as were a wide assortment of various powders and potions. Such "technology" even dates back to the time of the Roman and Egyptian empires.

I accept that a lot of the above-mentioned activity took place behind closed doors, and I think that is the greatest difference between then and now. Then, it still went on but people simply gossiped about it instead of talking openly. Now, you're not supposed to blink an eye if your 15-year-old child wants to have their boyfriend or girlfriend over to stay the night in their room...


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## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

If i had a 15 year old that wanted to have their boyfriend or girlfriend stay the night in my house I would paddle their ass until they passed out. That last post sounded more like apologetic bullshit for the what we have become as a society. If you don't think we are far worse off morally and ethically than our ancestors you're a fool. This also seems to be a major flaw in people these days. Trying to prove to everyone we really aren't going to hell in a handbasket because it's always been this way. Go sell crazy somewhere else.


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## Journeyman (Mar 28, 2005)

Nicesuit,

I'm not condoning such behaviour.
In fact, if teenage girls are supposedly performing oral sex on boys before they even decide to become boyfriend and girlfriend, then I think that is appalling. Sex can be great fun, but I at least prefer to do it within a loving relationship.

The purpose of my post (perhaps poorly stated) was to note that it's naive to think that "sex, marriage and procreation" were always interlinked in people's minds. People have been having sex both before, and outside, marriage for millenia and will no doubt continue to do so for as long as the human race exists.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Journeyman said:


> The purpose of my post (perhaps poorly stated) was to note that it's naive to think that "sex, marriage and procreation" were always interlinked in people's minds. People have been having sex both before, and outside, marriage for millenia and will no doubt continue to do so for as long as the human race exists.


But as long as the human race has existed, I bet people have valued things they have to expend effort to obtain more than things that fall in their lap, so to speak. 

If you were lucky to live to the age of 50, marrying or having children as a teenager would make sense.

Today's teenagers are usually not self-supporting and are emotionally unequipped for bohemian sexual practices. Those are best left to us old, jaded people.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

eh...to be honest...it's modern times...not saying that young girls should be indescriminately having oral sex with young guys before even knowing them...but, let's be honest with ourselves, kids are going to be having sex...I remember back when I was in school kids were doing it as early as 7th grade...by the time about the 10th grade rolled around, if you hadn't lost your virginity yet it was assumed that there was something wrong with you...I can honestly say that in my gradutating class, I could count all the virgins on one hand...

not saying it's right, not saying its wrong...that's just how it is...

I actually just got back from a family weekend at my parent's cabin in the woods...I was kind of surprised to see that they let my 11th grade sister bring her BF along...I remember being in 12th grade, and I still had to sneak around and lie to my parents if I wanted to spend the night with a girl...and trust me, after having to listen to the smooching noises (why the F*** do they have to be so gawddamn loud, at what point do people learn to make out quietly) I had to put up with every waking hour of the weekend, I'm all for keeping youngsters separated until they are 20...or at least while I'm trying to get some f'n sleep...lol...but seriously...times have changed...in a way we just have to accept it...

I'd like to see people preaching more responsibility to these kids, I mean we were all 16 and 17 years old, we all were doing those things...so I don't necessarily take the holy roller aproach when it comes to sex because I was just as bad at that age, but I think lessons in responsibility are important, not just about protection and what-have-you, but about respecting one's self enough to not just get down with somebody after having known them for all of five minutes...I mean, there's nothing wrong with sex...and that's not even to say that it always has to be about "love" or whatever, but, these young girls (and young boys too) need to learn about standards...I mean, in spite of the joke I cracked earlier there were, of course, girls who might give a guy a good time without really knowing him...we even had a name for them...sluts...I run into some of these girls every now and again, and guess what...not much has changed...


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Journeyman said:


> Mike,
> 
> With all respect, whilst people may have previously recognised the interdependence and inseparability of sex and procreation in the past, there was still a lot of it going on outside marriage.
> 
> ...


First, there is nothing incompatable with the interdependence of sex, marriage, and procration with the acknowledgment that sex is natural and desirable. So is eating, but one orders those appetites as well. Yes, the pre-Christian Romans and Egyptians did all kinds of things that civilized people would view as horrible, including to their own children. To the extent the Victorian era suggested that sex was somehow bad, then indeed it was a disordered excess; and no doubt non-marital sexual behavior existed then, even if it was more discreet. But the notion that pre-marital and extra-marital sex was as common then as today is anti-historical rubbish. Today's casual treatment of sex is new to modern western civilization, and is ruining the lives of many vulnerable people, especially women and children. As a first step, you might read Marriage and Caste in America, by Hymowitz (2006).


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> ...* Have your sons read this:*...
> 
> ...sorry...:icon_smile_big:


LMAO! :icon_smile_big:


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

vwguy said:


> Right, women have the power here, just say no to hook ups if you really want to date the guy instead.
> 
> Brian


Except they don't realize they have the power.

Women (as we all know) have an insane desire to have men pay attention to them. Our culture tells them that the only way to accomplish that is to frivolously dispense sex. And then they are confused once the mixed emotions crop up.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

https://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDA2YWVmNzc2ZGRiM2M1Y2ZmY2U1NTQzNjVmODJiYmI=&w=MA==


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

_A girl whose boyfriend assured her sex was "like doing the dishes."_

My wife hates to do dishes. This would not have been a selling point.


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## Manly and Conservative (Nov 18, 2007)

_"By now everyone's heard of the hook-up culture prevalent on college campuses and, increasingly, in high schools and even middle schools."_

What do you expect when students are given terrible guidance by those who should be giving them proper guidance?

These students have slop for brains, basically, that the teachers then are responsible to mold.

But the whole "respect diversity" and "tolerance" mantra that teachers are teaching kids makes no sense. Looking at these kinds of mantras as an argument reveals more concretely that they make absolutely no sense.

What these learning institutions should be doing is comparing the previous mantras against the likes of Dietrich von Hildebrand, and thousands of other qualified people, writing on love and marriage:

Sadly, the darkness of ignorance is somehow more apealing, especially when you're sitting on your fat rear watching the Ball Game and eating Froot Loops.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Manly and Conservative said:


> _"By now everyone's heard of the hook-up culture prevalent on college campuses and, increasingly, in high schools and even middle schools."_
> 
> What do you expect when students are given terrible guidance by those who should be giving them proper guidance?
> 
> ...


I eat hot wings when I watch football games. 
Why should the colleges and universities be teaching about love and marriage at all? I went to school to take classes within my major. Parents are the ones who should be teaching these types of things.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

Laxplayer said:


> _A girl whose boyfriend assured her sex was "like doing the dishes."_
> 
> My wife hates to do dishes. This would not have been a selling point.


Ha!

Brian


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## Manly and Conservative (Nov 18, 2007)

Laxplayer said:


> I eat hot wings when I watch football games.
> Why should the colleges and universities be teaching about love and marriage at all? I went to school to take classes within my major. Parents are the ones who should be teaching these types of things.


Agreed that the parents "should be teaching..." But what happens when our dumbest generation of youth today become parents, what of their children?

The point you raise of wanting to "take classes within my major" is important. That is precisely the problem with schooling today - it has become too isolated and specific with "majors", and the rest of decent and well-rounded living is discarded.

Say a person's major in college was "Eating Hot Wings While Watching Football Games" and that in today's marketplace that is a high paying job. Does that make a socially functional and valuable member of the community, especially when he becomes 400 pounds and his wife divorces him?

I find that colleges and other learning institutions are charged with the responsibility to provide a _complete_ education. How can an "Eating Hot Wings" major, or for that matter a doctor or lawyer, call themselves properly educated if they have no moral principles and ravage the town's ladies? A person like that brings society down to the level of the gutter.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Manly and Conservative said:


> Agreed that the parents "should be teaching..." But what happens when our dumbest generation of youth today become parents, what of their children?
> 
> The point you raise of wanting to "take classes within my major" is important. That is precisely the problem with schooling today - it has become too isolated and specific with "majors", and the rest of decent and well-rounded living is discarded.
> 
> ...


That would probably be a popular major. :icon_smile_big:
I see what you are saying, but I'm not sure how well that would work. My parents did raise my brother and I to respect women, so we didn't have a need for this type of education in college, but I realize that many parents do not teach these morals to their kids. 
I guess the problem I see is, who's morals should we be teaching? I don't have the answer to that, so that is why I think this type of education is best left to parents.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Gabba, I bet half of the people you KNEW had sex in school were lying through their teeth.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

VS said:


> Gabba, I bet half of the people you KNEW had sex in school were lying through their teeth.


Okay, but half is still a pretty good success rate! :icon_smile_big:


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