# Feeling intimidated when on a fancy dinner related to a job or business



## jf-intels (Sep 21, 2014)

Fancy dinner has steak and wine. And nice looking napkins and different kinds of spoons/forks. That's one of the first things I noticed after high school. What do you do if you like neither and don't know anything about eating a fancy dinner? It's hard to turn someone down when they offer you alcohol even though it tastes pretty bad and I don't want to say "I don't drink" because I am afraid of being too much of for lack of better word a wuss. Or being just someone with rules that are too strict. 

Feeling intimidated when on a fancy dinner related to a job or business

In general if you are afraid of looking dumb in front of your host/employer or what not what do you do when you don't know something? 

I remember when I had to read great expectations, the main character got alot of training in being a gentleman. I don't think he helped him not get totally broke or get rejected by Estella, but I wish I also had that kind of education at some point. There are guides to these kind of things on art of manliness and primer magazine but sometimes it can feel very artificial for whatever reason to prepare for formal events by printing pdf's off of the internet. 

Am I the only college student who feels this?


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## 3rd&17 (Jun 18, 2014)

I don't find any issue with reading pdfs in order to learn. I was taught before college how to handle these situations through events such as cotillion, however, if you do not have that benefit, then you have to learn somewhere. There is nothing wrong with a desire to learn, though attitude towards the matter does play a role. 

As I am at the end of my college experience, I have observed many of my (once) newly initiated fraternity brothers learn and progress over time, either through etiquette dinners hosted by sororities, mandatory events hosted by nationals (teaching etiquette), or simply by observing others over time. There is no difference between learning through reading and learning through experience (though experience will help). 

In short, I suggest that you read if you want to learn; you can always correct yourself in a situation, or humbly admit to ignorance in a subject as with your wine situation. Unless you were lucky to learn in a welcoming environment, being able to taste the differences in alcohol takes time and practice. I can assure you that I could never taste the difference between scotch, or wine when I started out.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

As long as you feel confident, you will exude the same. When I was younger, I fit more into the Joe Gargery model. Simple and unassuming, but with a certain amount of quiet dignity. I was never intimidated by those in positions higher than mine. The difference between me then and you now is that you have the benefit of the greatest learning tool that the world has ever known... the internet! You can find over 1 million sites in less than one second that will help you understand formal and semi-formal place settings and etiquette protocol. You can spend money on magazines if you wish. However, you have a wealth of information right at your fingertips. Don't be afraid to state your distaste for alcohol. It's not a social requirement. There again, if you are wanting to learn more about wine and finer spirits, you can take online sommelier courses that will greatly enhance your vino wisdom. You don't have to be uncomfortable in any social setting as long as you educate yourself with proper event-specific knowledge.


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

drlivingston said:


> you can take online sommelier courses


that sounds soulless somehow


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

blairrob said:


> that sounds soulless somehow


I agree wholeheartedly... However, it is a temporary means to an end. If you take the online courses, it will surely whet your appetite for real education.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)




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## Devinmilesmurphy (Aug 31, 2014)

If it's a fancy dinner, people won't press you to drink if you say "no, thanks." It's not a frat party; they won't belittle you for not drinking. Due to personal reasons I can drink no alcohol. I've never been given a hard time about this, even in the most boozy of business dinners. 

If you don't like steak, don't order steak. If you're at a fancy dinner where everyone is served the same thing -- such as awards ceremonies -- then don't eat it if you don't like it, because it's not rude to leave things on your plate. The only exception would be a dinner held by someone who is a head of state, in which case you should eat what is put in front of you regardless of how much you dislike it. 

Learn your utensils and plates; this isn't negotiable. In general, work from the outside in, and remember that extreme speciality dishes (escargot, caviar) tend to be served with their own utensils. 

Put your napkin on your lap before doing anything else. If you get ribs as an entree (then you're a fool, but) tuck your napkin into your collar. Put your napkin on your chair if you leave the table. Better yet, don't leave the table. 

Much of what is considered to be "rules of etiquette" is simply codified common sense. Don't dip your bread into butter shared by the table. Don't pick up your soup bowl and slurp like you're a prisoner. Don't belch. Don't cut all your food into little pieces before you start eating. Don't quibble over the check. If you set up the dinner, pay it. If someone else arranged the dinner, they pay it. Don't toss your food into the air and impress everyone by catching it in your mouth. Don't talk with your mouth full. Just let common sense guide your actions. 

Most importantly, don't pretend to know something if you don't. A lack of knowledge, tempered with graciousness and politeness, is never considered unacceptable.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

jf-intels said:


> Am I the only college student who feels this?


Probably not.

But I suspect you are among the few that cares about not looking like an Oaf!!


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

I'm a total outlier from our generation (My friends and I swear that I should have been born one-hundred years before my actual birth), so I've been used to "Man" things like wearing "tailored" (always proper to me) clothes, good music (call me a connoisseur of "Pop"; I've listened to it all, from Dan W. Quinn to Maroon 5), handyman work (I fix my car and do housework; I seldom call people for repairs such as plumbing or take my car to the dealer) and good food (I hate baking, but I love cooking; Paella is my favorite dish).

As such, I always set the table in a formal fashion (to the dismay of my family and friends) and eat that way, with a napkin on my lap and the silverware in its proper location. It would probably become old hat for you after some practice. Now, it can be a tad daunting when dressed up (I choose to wear a bow-tie, my vested suit, or a clasp) when eating. Remember to raise the fork or spoon to your lips (YOU'RE in charge, not the bread). I will agree that spaghetti and soup can be intimidating (don't want to wreck a good tie; no matter what is done, a stain or damage will always be present), which is why I avoid eating those meals. Again, I implore everyone to practice; eat with the family or have a dinner with friends; it's much nicer that way.

Now, if somebody could tell me how to not be imitated when inside the bowels of a Shopping Mall....

-Quetzal


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Quetzal said:


> Now, if somebody could tell me how to not be imitated
> 
> -Quetzal


I get the sense that this isn't a huge problem.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Intimidated?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Sadly far too much of the stress we experience in our everyday lives, we place upon ourselves. It's actually almost encouraging to read of a young person being concerned about proper table manners, but any associated angst should not be such that it is sufficient to immobilize the individual reporting such. Just yesterday the wife and I attended a function at what many would consider a fancy eatery. I noted fully four forks and two (or was it three) spoons and eventually two knives in the flatware arrangement. Admittedly, I am a bit of a hillbilly at heart, but I kept one hand in my lap, didn't slurp my soup and managed to use but two of the forks, both knives, and absolutely none of the spoons (wait, I did use one to stir cream in my coffee). There were ten people seated around the table the wife and I were seated at and not one seemed bothered in the least or even to take notice my dining performance!

Chill out and enjoy your dining companions at those fancy restaurants rather than worrying about which fork to pick up!


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

drlivingston said:


> Don't be afraid to state your distaste for alcohol.


Wrong. Just take a pass. When out and about try really hard to not _state your distaste _for anything. I hate people who state stuff, particularly distaste. But we'd have no forum here if that was a rule. The remainder of Dr. Liv's advice, solid.


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## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Peak and Pine said:


> Wrong. Just take a pass. When out and about try really hard to not _state your distaste _for anything. I hate people who state stuff, particularly distaste. But we'd have no forum here if that was a rule. The remainder of Dr. Liv's advice, solid.


Yes, if you don't want a drink, all you need to say is "no, thank you". If anybody persists in pressing drink on you, it shows that they're an oaf.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

drlivingston said:


> Intimidated?


Ah, yes, thank you, I meant "Intimidated". I have a strange tendency to feel very out of place, small, and lost when inside of an Urban Shopping Mall.

-Quetzal


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## pleasehelp (Sep 8, 2005)

I have quite a few thoughts on this, but I'll try to be brief:

- It is natural to feel intimidated. You are not alone. That's ok. I rarely ate out when growing up, and when I entered the professional world I was a complete fish out of water at fancy restaurants. I had my education, work ethic, ambition and personal values, but I did not have any sort of polish when it came to fancy restaurants or world travel, and I don't think it has ever been an issue for me. It will only be an issue for you if you decide to let it be an issue for you.

- First rule to follow when you're in that situation is to be polite and courteous to everyone. As an aside, this a rule to follow not just at the fancy restaurants but everywhere through your career. You're not going to make or break your career by using the wrong fork, but you might be being rude. I interview a lot of young professionals - I don't care if their clothes don't fit or if they don't know anything about a wine list, but I won't hire them if they are rude to a secretary, waiter, receptionist, etc. You'll also like yourself better if you treat people with respect. I know of very few people that hire young professionals because they think they are great at dining in fancy restaurants or because they dress well.

- Don't be ashamed to ask questions. You can ask your dining party or the restaurant staff for help.

- It's fine to say no to alcohol. We'd probably all be better of if we all did the same.

- Read this link and apply it to your situation. https://www.businessinsider.com/best-advice-jpmorgan-jimmy-lee-received-2014-6. My father gave me similar advice growing up and I've always followed it.

Good luck to you. This is only an issue if you want it to be an issue.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

jf-intels said:


> Fancy dinner has steak and wine. And nice looking napkins and different kinds of spoons/forks. That's one of the first things I noticed after high school. What do you do if you like neither and don't know anything about eating a fancy dinner? It's hard to turn someone down when they offer you alcohol even though it tastes pretty bad and I don't want to say "I don't drink" because I am afraid of being too much of for lack of better word a wuss. Or being just someone with rules that are too strict.
> 
> Feeling intimidated when on a fancy dinner related to a job or business
> 
> ...


Do research and practice. It may seem artificial, that's why you don't tell anyone 

It's just a skill, but the skill is necessary to make the experience pleasant and useful.


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## Starting Late (Apr 26, 2010)

What he said.



Devinmilesmurphy said:


> If it's a fancy dinner, people won't press you to drink if you say "no, thanks." It's not a frat party; they won't belittle you for not drinking. Due to personal reasons I can drink no alcohol. I've never been given a hard time about this, even in the most boozy of business dinners.
> 
> If you don't like steak, don't order steak. If you're at a fancy dinner where everyone is served the same thing -- such as awards ceremonies -- then don't eat it if you don't like it, because it's not rude to leave things on your plate. The only exception would be a dinner held by someone who is a head of state, in which case you should eat what is put in front of you regardless of how much you dislike it.
> 
> ...


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## Travel57 (Apr 23, 2014)

You feel this way because college students ARE like that. Once you are out with mature adults you'll instantly see it's a non issue. 

If you don't want to drink, don't order a drink. Nobody will give it any thought.


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

Quetzal,

I always set the table in a formal fashion (to the dismay of my family and friends) and eat that way, with a napkin on my lap and the silverware in its proper location.

Doesn't everyone in Brookfield? Maybe I'm thinking of River Hills.


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## Mikestyle49 (Sep 29, 2014)

I think those are perfectly normal feelings. When you are young and inexperienced in the work place, its hard to know what to say and what not to. My strategy as I have gotten older is to deflect. I ask people broad and vague questions such as "how were your holidays" and let them guide the conversation. It will avoid embarassing conversation, and also a good way to learn what to say. My two basic strategies at this point in time: "never volunteer any information", and "ask questions and listen"

You will get more comfortable over time. It's just going to take time.


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## Tempest (Aug 16, 2012)

The confidence thing is correct. Act like you belong and don't be nervous and self-conscious. It's the same as how some men wear a suit as though it costs more than they do and they are afraid to wrinkle it, and others just go about their business wearing one. 


Travel57 said:


> If you don't want to drink, don't order a drink. Nobody will give it any thought.


I'll buy this. But don't order a soft drink. Drink water and you'll be thought reserved, order a Coke and you'll be thought an unsophisticated boob. By me. Although I'd encourage learning to appreciate wine if not hindered by religious or medical prohibitions. If a grown man states that they don't like the taste of alcohol, I start thinking they drink Kool-Aid and eat Spaghetti-Os.


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## barneco (Mar 4, 2014)

Tempest said:


> But don't order a soft drink.


Absolutely correct - order a Shirley Temple.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

If one does not care for alcohol then one should not order it nor feel obligated to drink. 

No reason need be given. Just politely decline. There's no need to justify it in any way. 

Water is the best substitute.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^True Dat! 

I've generally opted for a seltzer water or a diet Coke, with a twist of lime in them! I really don't believe anyone thought less of me, regardless of the choice I made...at least I would hope not. Otherwise, I've been keeping the wrong company!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

SG_67 said:


> If one does not care for alcohol then one should not order it nor feel obligated to drink.
> 
> No reason need be given. Just politely decline. There's no need to justify it in any way.
> 
> Water is the best substitute.


water is cheaper and you can get free refills.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

Howard said:


> water is cheaper and you can get free refills.


This isn't always the case. Water is often charged per bottle which can be $10 versus $5 for a single glass of wine.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

I opt for tap water. The fluoridation doesn't bother me but I refuse to share of my precious fluids with anyone! Do you understand what I'm saying Mandrake?


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

justonemore said:


> This isn't always the case. Water is often charged per bottle which can be $10 versus $5 for a single glass of wine.


That's the case in Schweiz, perhaps, but not, generally, in these good old United States. :rolleyes2:


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