# Brooks Has Killed The Iconic Oxford



## onthelistbaby (Nov 15, 2004)

Brooks Has Killed The Iconic Oxford (And maybe the brand in the process)
I have been wearing BB Oxford shirts for over 20 years. My father wore them too. I am beside myself that they no longer have the high quality, heavy fabric normal finish shirt with the pocket. Instead they only now carry a much lighter weight (and cheaper feeling) shirt without a pocket. They say it’s “getting back to roots”. But it seems much more like cheaping out for the sake of profit. 
I have at least 10 each of blue and white and a many stripped as well and I buy a half dozen more every year or so. Over the last 5 or 6 years they have made a lot of changes in terms of labels and what they call the shirts and fits, but it has still always been the same shirt. This new shirt absolutely does not do it for me. Why could they not add this new cheap shirt and call it “back to roots”, but still keep the shirt that we have been wearing and loving for so many years?
I honestly don’t know what to do about this because I wear these shirts every other day or more. I won’t buy these new ones. I don’t like them. 
I’m surprised no one else has commented on this (Or, at least I can’t find the comments). This is the most iconic item produced from an iconic American brand. It’s very sad to me.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

If you look at old photographs and pics in Flusser's second book you'll see that the BB OCBDs used to be in a much thinner fabric than they have been for the past ten or fifteen years.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

This was discussed ad nauseam back when the new OCBD was first introduced.....two years ago. Surprised your search didn’t turn anything up.


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## drpeter (Nov 21, 2008)

onthelistbaby said:


> Brooks Has Killed The Iconic Oxford (And maybe the brand in the process)
> I have been wearing BB Oxford shirts for over 20 years. My father wore them too. I am beside myself that they no longer have the high quality, heavy fabric normal finish shirt with the pocket. Instead they only now carry a much lighter weight (and cheaper feeling) shirt without a pocket.


I think many of the old firms like Brooks Brothers have abandoned their older standards for shirts, trousers, jackets and suits. Along with this trend, there is also the simultaneous practice of outsourcing production to countries where labour is cheap. These two trends have been going on for a while now, generally speaking, and the common factor is the savings on production costs to make more profits. Another trad firm which always made its clothes in the US, J Press, are now having trousers and shirts made in China and the Far East, presumably at lower costs. I still remember buying a pair of Clark's laceups (made in China) and having it come apart in three weeks! The old English-made Clarks were absolutely great in terms of durability. It is not that overseas manufacturing is of necessity bad. I think the fact of the matter is that if you get cheap labour, you run the risk of losing quality. Find skilled workers and craftsmen, maintain high standards, and you get a much finer product.

I have one suggestion for the OP: There are firms in the US that still manufacture locally and pay attention to quality, though I am unsure if one can find their products in Hong Kong. One American firm that has traditionally made the kind of beefy, baggy, well-constructed OCBDs in traditional solids and stripes, and with a nicely rolled collar, is Mercer & Sons. I love their shirts, I have several and they last forever. I can't swear to it, but I think they are still making their shirts locally and with high standards. They are, of course, dearer than their "outsourced" cousins! But if you have a shirt that you can wear well for several years, perhaps paying more at the outset is more economical in the long view.


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## fallschurch (Apr 7, 2015)

The latest changes to their OCBD signal a continued shift towards European influence for Brooks. Slight hyperbole but it's as if they want a shirt fit for Savile Row:

Thinner higher count pinpointy delicate fabric, MOP buttons, 45% price increase: refined, exclusive

Slimmer cuts (originally no traditional fit), no chest pocket: European. Like a quality Italian broadcloth

Problem is, most of us don't buy BB OCBD's to fit in with European Savile Row. We go there for an egalitarian, utilitarian, rugged, durable, Main street OCBD.

That they added the perfect collar to a shirt with Savile Row DNA shows how lost they are. At least they're trying and listening to all of the chatter about the traditional BB unlined collar roll.

But, they've still lost me as a customer although I will hunt for NOS 132 and 133Q's eventually. Mercer, Press, and LE Hyde Park are better buys now. Same goes for Michael Spencer, Gitman, Kamakura, Ratio, Luxire, Proper Cloth.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

FLMike said:


> This was discussed ad nauseam back when the new OCBD was first introduced.....two years ago. Surprised your search didn't turn anything up.


:deadhorse:


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Doctor Damage said:


> If you look at old photographs and pics in Flusser's second book you'll see that the BB OCBDs used to be in a much thinner fabric than they have been for the past ten or fifteen years.


This statement is true. I have an older BB OCBD with thinner cloth that is very similar to the current iteration. Sometimes, I miss the chest pocket. But BB is hardly "killing off" its product. Still made in the USA, too. It's perhaps not a perfect shirt but it's hardly a Savile Row knockoff.


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## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

I know it's a touchy subject, but BB claims that the chest pocket wasn't in the original iteration of the OCBD, a fact upheld by this 1961 advertisement from the archived site of the inimitable Mssr. Heavy Tweed Jacket:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fYzfmHMn.../s1600/Brookscloth_127_BB_1962_S:S_Shirts.jpg

Here, at least, it was an optional addition rather than the standard. I almost feel bad for BB, as they've "out tradded" the trad forum, bringing back a garment from before the "golden age" that we like so well.

FWIW, I have three of these USA made, pocketless shirts that I bought at the New Year's sale last year. They're very smart, and I prefer them to Kamakura (where I was previously buying my shirts). If forced to buy them at full price, however, I might opt for J Press or Mercer & Sons.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

gamma68 said:


> :deadhorse:


Yes indeed fellas, we have beat this topic to death,....Then, after we were all exhausted, we freshened up a bit and beat it again until the stench was unbearable.

For Pete's sake Brooks brothers shirts, OCBD or otherwise, will NEVER be what they once were. They're not bad, especially if one waits for sales. My last three were 3 for $99.-.

Brooks is doing what they have to keep the business viable.

Please search the topic out, prepare a beverage, and hold on tight.

Regards,


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Like others have said, this has been discussed heavily. According to comments made by Del Vecchio, Brooks Brothers had been losing money for years on the “old” version. As much as I liked it (and I have many of the 529Q in all colors), I understand them making a business decision and not keeping that version around


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

With regard to the lack of a chest pocket; well, it is a Sports Shirt after all.


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## TropicalCyclone (Oct 24, 2017)

The problem is that the shirts that Brooks sells in Hong Kong is different from the ones in America. I went to their shops in elements, harbor city, and IFC, I could not find a single MiUSA OCBD, their salespeople were adamant that they weren't made anymore. That right there is the main problem, the new OCBD sold in America is made in Garland NC, while the ones sold in Hong Kong are made in Malaysia.


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## fallschurch (Apr 7, 2015)

orange fury said:


> Like others have said, this has been discussed heavily. According to comments made by Del Vecchio, Brooks Brothers had been losing money for years on the "old" version. As much as I liked it (and I have many of the 529Q in all colors), I understand them making a business decision and not keeping that version around


"Losing money" is industry speak for not meeting target profit margins, which may be 200% or more in the retail sector. BB gives away 40% discounts like they're nothing. This says something about how profitable the old $95 OCBD's were. Actual cost was probably around $40-50 which is how low they went on sale. Materials: $15. Labor: $15. Overhead/transportation/marketing/other sunk costs: $15 is my guess.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

fallschurch said:


> "Losing money" is industry speak for not meeting target *profit margins, which may be 200% or more in the retail sector.* BB gives away 40% discounts like they're nothing. This says something about how profitable the old $95 OCBD's were. Actual cost was probably around $40-50 which is how low they went on sale. Materials: $15. Labor: $15. Overhead/transportation/marketing/other sunk costs: $15 is my guess.


Um, you can't have profit margins over 100%. No way to clear more than your selling price. That would be pretty nifty, if so.

Perhaps you mean initial mark-up (IMU).


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

I find the chest pockets to be nearly useless. Anything more then a pen in them is frightening.


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

David J. Cooper said:


> I find the chest pockets to be nearly useless. Anything more then a pen in them is frightening.


Oh, i find them very hand just as temporary storage, like a third hand.

Stumbling off a redeye connecting flight after flying back to the USA from China, encumbered with bags, and you're juggling your parking ticket and credit card at some kiosk? Shirt pocket to hold the card or ticket for a second. Little things like that.

I won't actually *store* something there - certainly not a pen (although I used to, pre-digital era) - but it's just a handy little space for temporary organization.

DH


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Brooks has added many colors and patterns to their made-in-USA OCBD selection in the past two years. The shirt lives on. 

What really seems to be dead is their sack blazer. On the website, they have not updated the stock in over a year, and all common sizes (e.g., 40 Regular) are long gone. Only a handful of less-common sizes remains available now.


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## The Archduke (Jul 5, 2016)

straw sandals said:


> I might opt for J Press or Mercer & Sons.


I just got a J Press shirt for Christmas, & I don't like it as much as I do the B.B. OCBD's. It's a bit tighter in the stomach (although, not as tight as B.B. "regent" fit).


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## wicker (Feb 12, 2017)

Anyone have experience with O’Connell’s OCBD? Where are trad folks getting their OCBDs off the rack now, if not BB?


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

Since we're engaged in BB OCBD overthink (one of my favorite parlor games), let me ask about BB's blue color. 

It, IMHO, is part of what makes the blue BB OCBD special. It's really more a grey blue than blue with a depth of color that feels rich and nuanced. The grayness keeps it from being too blue which many blue OCBD are, IMHHO. 

BB's OCBD blue defines what a classic blue OCBD should look like in my mind - how do others feel about BB's OCBD blue color?


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> Since we're engaged in BB OCBD overthink (one of my favorite parlor games), let me ask about BB's blue color.
> 
> It, IMHO, is part of what makes the blue BB OCBD special. It's really more a grey blue than blue with a depth of color that feels rich and nuanced. The grayness keeps it from being too blue which many blue OCBD are, IMHHO.
> 
> BB's OCBD blue defines what a classic blue OCBD should look like in my mind - how do others feel about BB's OCBD blue color?


Yes, I completely agree. I hadn't really thought about the blend (I guess I could put it under a microscope), but I guess it must indeed be heathered with grey.

The pink OCBDs, too; they have a more muted quality, grey in with the pink.

Certainly a more "rustic" look than some of the Easter egg blues and pinks you see elsewhere.

DH


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Dhaller said:


> Yes, I completely agree. I hadn't really thought about the blend (I guess I could put it under a microscope), but I guess it must indeed be heathered with grey.
> 
> The pink OCBDs, too; they have a more muted quality, grey in with the pink.
> 
> ...


I agree with you and FF about the muted quality of BB's blue OCBD. I'm not sure about BB's pink OCBD. It always seems stronger and more vibrant, as if it needs to be muted. I'll have to take a closer look at the ones in my closet and reassess.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

gamma68 said:


> I agree with you and FF about the muted quality of BB's blue OCBD. I'm not sure about BB's pink OCBD. It always seems stronger and more vibrant, as if it needs to be muted. I'll have to take a closer look at the ones in my closet and reassess.


I was going to post the same thing, but you beat me to it. He must be shopping at a different BB than the one where my hot pink OCBDs came from. I agree their shade of pink is distinctive, but not by virtue of its subtlety.


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## Dhaller (Jan 20, 2008)

FLMike said:


> I was going to post the same thing, but you beat me to it. He must be shopping at a different BB than the one where my hot pink OCBDs came from. I agree their shade of pink is distinctive, but not by virtue of its subtlety.


Perhaps mine is a little faded.

I wear the things until they're pretty threadbare!

DH


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## Ensiferous (Mar 5, 2012)

Fading Fast said:


> BB's OCBD blue defines what a classic blue OCBD should look like in my mind...


Yes, agreed. The definitive light blue.


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## Califax (Jul 10, 2015)

I like them - and am quite glad that they are pocketless. I seem to remember that someone posted a pic showing that at least at one time in the distant "golden era" they were in fact pocketless? To me the pockets seem oddly utilitarian and useless at the same time; and they ride too low on most people.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

I happened to get a NOS BB OCBD this last summer that was from the pre pocket era. Personally, I prefer pockets. But one of the distinct features of the Old Old School OCBD is deep, deep tails. The new new school no pockets would be worth the price if they had that.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

AldenPyle said:


> I happened to get a NOS BB OCBD this last summer that was from the pre pocket era. Personally, I prefer pockets. But one of the distinct features of the Old Old School OCBD is deep, deep tails. The new new school no pockets would be worth the price if they had that.


At 6'1" but only a medium, sleeve and tail length are always a concern for me as they quite often are too short, so I'm with you. But unfortunately, besides saving money on material, I think companies are purposely shortening their tails as so many today wear them untucked and they look like nightshirts that way if the tails are too long.


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## 89826 (Jun 22, 2016)

The old shirts didn't have chest pockets because the wearer also wore a vest.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

89826 said:


> The old shirts didn't have chest pockets because the wearer also wore a vest.


Once upon a time, they were all pullovers, probably for the same reason.


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## TropicalCyclone (Oct 24, 2017)

Is it just me or do people from the past seem to be wearing many more layers. It seems like most of the pictures from the golden era pictured people wearing jackets and pullovers even in the midday sun during the summer, I would be just comfortable in a polo and shorts, anything more would just have me bursting in flames.


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## August West (Aug 1, 2013)

TropicalCyclone said:


> Is it just me or do people from the past seem to be wearing many more layers. It seems like most of the pictures from the golden era pictured people wearing jackets and pullovers even in the midday sun during the summer, I would be just comfortable in a polo and shorts, anything more would just have me bursting in flames.


Global warming?


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

I quit coming here regularly after the last forum software update made everything nearly unreadable, but I still pop in once in a while...just to find the same arguments happening all over again! Sigh.

See y'all in another five or six months.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

TropicalCyclone said:


> Is it just me or do people from the past seem to be wearing many more layers. It seems like most of the pictures from the golden era pictured people wearing jackets and pullovers even in the midday sun during the summer, I would be just comfortable in a polo and shorts, anything more would just have me bursting in flames.


People had less body fat back then...grew colder more easily.

But yes, the topic of BB's new OCBDs has been discussed to death.


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## Hebrew Barrister (Oct 1, 2017)

Pentheos said:


> People had less body fat back then...grew colder more easily.
> 
> But yes, the topic of BB's new OCBDs has been discussed to death.


I think it's more than people were just used to being hotter for whatever reason. I don't ever see how it could he comfortable to wear 3 layers on your torso in the middle of the summer. I can live with being outside in summer in a thin dress shirt and a summer weight / fabric sport coat, for a bit, but not for hours.


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## jastcaird (Dec 6, 2009)

onthelistbaby said:


> Brooks Has Killed The Iconic Oxford (And maybe the brand in the process)
> I have been wearing BB Oxford shirts for over 20 years. My father wore them too. I am beside myself that they no longer have the high quality, heavy fabric normal finish shirt with the pocket. Instead they only now carry a much lighter weight (and cheaper feeling) shirt without a pocket. They say it's "getting back to roots". But it seems much more like cheaping out for the sake of profit.
> I have at least 10 each of blue and white and a many stripped as well and I buy a half dozen more every year or so. Over the last 5 or 6 years they have made a lot of changes in terms of labels and what they call the shirts and fits, but it has still always been the same shirt. This new shirt absolutely does not do it for me. Why could they not add this new cheap shirt and call it "back to roots", but still keep the shirt that we have been wearing and loving for so many years?
> I honestly don't know what to do about this because I wear these shirts every other day or more. I won't buy these new ones. I don't like them.
> I'm surprised no one else has commented on this (Or, at least I can't find the comments). This is the most iconic item produced from an iconic American brand. It's very sad to me.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Do you think you could elaborate on that?


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## onthelistbaby (Nov 15, 2004)

Thanks to all for your replies. I’m sorry to have resurrected something that has been discussed do much. I promise that I did try several different searches in seeking out discussion of the topic. Obviously I didn’t do it correctly. I’m surprised to learn that it has been 2 years since this was introduced. I’m sure that I purchased my regular supply about a year ago. It may have been the autumn before last. I did purchase some bengal striped OCBD and noticed the difference last summer, but I figured that I had just chosen the wrong item.
Frankly, I’m a fan of tradition and I don’t mind the new collar or even the absence of the pocket. At one point I ordered a half dozen Brooks OCBDs through their made to measure service specifically so that I could get a longer tail and NO pocket to wear with jackets. Unfortunately I was disappointed with those shirts. They just didn’t have the same quality as the regular off the rack shirts and the fabric was not really the same, although they claimed that it was. What really bothers me about this new shirt, as with the MTM, is that the fabric just isn’t anywhere near as good. I really loved the heaver, very nicely finished fabric. I pray that they bring it back. They raised the price for the new shirt, why couldn’t they just have raised the price on the old one if they were loosing money on it.
Bring back the old fabric at the new price, I’ll buy it!


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## onthelistbaby (Nov 15, 2004)

As an aside, and I haven’t done a search on this so forgive me if it’s also been discussed at length, I went into a store in Phoenix when I was in the states earlier this month and see that the shoes are now crummy too! Such a bummer. If they current owners are doing so poorly with the brand and can’t make any money, I wish they would just sell it. I really don’t see how consistently introducing inferior product at equal or higher prices leads to increased sales.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

Spier & Mackay makes great OCBDs in a thick, heavy, brushed fabric.

Chest pocket, and collar roll. 3.5 inch points.

They're like half the price of a Brooks shirt.

They also have striped OCBDs for MTM, for around $80USD.


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## TropicalCyclone (Oct 24, 2017)

Can confirm that Spier & Mackay makes great OCBDs, but they are non-iron.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

TropicalCyclone said:


> Can confirm that Spier & Mackay makes great OCBDs, but they are non-iron.


This is a oxymoronic claim , sir . :icon_headagainstwall:


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## TropicalCyclone (Oct 24, 2017)

But you can get a 3.5 inch collar that is unlined for $27 shipped. At that price, I'd be willing to make some sacrifices. I put my OCBDs through too many things as a college student to justify spending for a Kamakura, Mercers, BB, J.Press, Proper Cloth or Ratio for an everyday OCBD. Although I did pick up a few flap pocket OCBDs during the recent sale and can see why they are revered


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

FLMike said:


> I was going to post the same thing, but you beat me to it. He must be shopping at a different BB than the one where my hot pink OCBDs came from. I agree their shade of pink is distinctive, but not by virtue of its subtlety.


I picked out a pink BB OCBD from my closet today and my initial impression is unchanged. This shade of pink is too hot to work well with British tan khakis, wheat denim or any of my sport coats -- even a gray herringbone, which pairs well with just about anything. The shirt does look good under the navy LLB Norwegian fisherman's sweater and will stand alone fine with summer wear. Overall, I prefer Ralph Lauren's more subtle pink OCBD, even with the logo.


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

gamma68 said:


> I picked out a pink BB OCBD from my closet today and my initial impression is unchanged. This shade of pink is too hot to work well with British tan khakis, wheat denim or any of my sport coats -- even a gray herringbone, which pairs well with just about anything. The shirt does look good under the navy LLB Norwegian fisherman's sweater and will stand alone fine with summer wear. Overall, I prefer Ralph Lauren's more subtle pink OCBD, even with the logo.


Several years ago, J.Crew had a vintage "washed" (or some similar adjective) pink OCBD that was nearly perfect. It had several vintage details (locker loop, unlined color, hefty Oxford cloth) and the pink was faded the way a well-worn shirt would look (but no fraying or other "manufactured" aged details).

The collar was a bit short (but not silly short like some) - but of course, since J.Crew can't stop tinkering with its line and each item, it is no more. Wish I had a bought a few as now I wear that one sparingly.

BB has, as I wrote about above, the perfect blue-color OCBD IMHO; but for me, its pink is way too bright. Pink announces itself just by being pink; hence, a muted / faded / washed-out shade is ideal (and very "Take Ivy") - I'm surprised it's so hard to find.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

TropicalCyclone said:


> Can confirm that Spier & Mackay makes great OCBDs, but they are non-iron.


They are definitely not non-iron, nor are they unlined. They're either unfused or lightly fused, and lined.

Currently, nothing by S&M is non-iron.

All fabrics are must-iron.

A big flaw for S&M is lack of sleeve length options for their OTR shirts.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

^^^ S&M sleeves seem oddly long. My question is, are they true to size after washing? I've been buying BB shirts half an inch big in the neck, to make up for shrinkage.


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## onthelistbaby (Nov 15, 2004)

TropicalCyclone said:


> The problem is that the shirts that Brooks sells in Hong Kong is different from the ones in America. I went to their shops in elements, harbor city, and IFC, I could not find a single MiUSA OCBD, their salespeople were adamant that they weren't made anymore. That right there is the main problem, the new OCBD sold in America is made in Garland NC, while the ones sold in Hong Kong are made in Malaysia.


I haven't bought any in HK. I only buy them from the US because I can't stand the non-iron finish. I ship them to a forwarder (Called MyUS), who then sends them to me. I do this with almost all of my clothing and shoes because I am 6'2" with a size US12 shoe. It's often hard to find stuff that fits me here!


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## onthelistbaby (Nov 15, 2004)

David J. Cooper said:


> I find the chest pockets to be nearly useless. Anything more then a pen in them is frightening.


I often use them for parking tickets (the ones from the garage, not the police) that need to be validated or paid before getting my car. There are several places where I regularly need to do that and I rarely wear a jacket in HK because of the heat.


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## onthelistbaby (Nov 15, 2004)

AldenPyle said:


> I happened to get a NOS BB OCBD this last summer that was from the pre pocket era. Personally, I prefer pockets. But one of the distinct features of the Old Old School OCBD is deep, deep tails. The new new school no pockets would be worth the price if they had that.


Agree! I have complained about it for years and years. It was my one complaint. As I mentioned, I tried to address this with BB MTM, but it just wasn't as good in all other respects.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

Himself said:


> ^^^ S&M sleeves seem oddly long. My question is, are they true to size after washing? I've been buying BB shirts half an inch big in the neck, to make up for shrinkage.


It depends, what sleeve length are you looking at, and what is your proper sleeve length? Assuming you cold/warm wash and hang to dry, they can shrink around 0.5-1 inch. The cuffs are also relatively more snug compared to other brands I've found.

I do have one size 15 OCBD that used to be too long in the sleeves, and is now correct. However, a family member also threw it in the dryer by accident, and caused it to shrink all around a fair bit, I can't button the collar now. That was also upsizing for me, as the 14.5 collar wouldn't close on me.


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## tullioinnocenti (Mar 7, 2008)

Fading Fast said:


> Several years ago, J.Crew had a vintage "washed" (or some similar adjective) pink OCBD that was nearly perfect. It had several vintage details (locker loop, unlined color, hefty Oxford cloth) and the pink was faded the way a well-worn shirt would look (but no fraying or other "manufactured" aged details).
> 
> The collar was a bit short (but not silly short like some) - but of course, since J.Crew can't stop tinkering with its line and each item, it is no more. Wish I had a bought a few as now I wear that one sparingly.
> 
> BB has, as I wrote about above, the perfect blue-color OCBD IMHO; but for me, its pink is way too bright. Pink announces itself just by being pink; hence, a muted / faded / washed-out shade is ideal (and very "Take Ivy") - I'm surprised it's so hard to find.


I am a big fan of Nice oxford shirts too. Being a shirt maker I ended up buying the Oxford from the supplier where Ralph Lauren used to buy the "Yarnmouth oxford". The company is Portuguese and is called "Somelos Tecidos". I am sure you can fine a shirt maker in the USA that would keep some of these fabrics in stock. Otherwise I can advise you to buy the cloth on line from ACORN in the UK. They do have all the classic oxford shades in stock and you won't be disappointed about their service.

Hope this helps,

Tullio
www.thetravellingartisan.co.uk


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

TropicalCyclone said:


> Can confirm that Spier & Mackay makes great OCBDs, but they are non-iron.


Unfortunately, all their shirts seem to be cut for very slim men for the neck size.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

For those of us who bemoan the demise of the classic BB OCBD here's an interesting article for you from the WSJ:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-t...te-clothing-item-gets-discontinued-1528126873

Hope you can access it.


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## TimF (Aug 21, 2016)

xcubbies said:


> For those of us who bemoan the demise of the classic BB OCBD here's an interesting article for you from the WSJ:
> 
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-t...te-clothing-item-gets-discontinued-1528126873
> 
> Hope you can access it.


Not an online subscriber, think you could work a little Ctrl + C magic?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

xcubbies said:


> For those of us who bemoan the demise of the classic BB OCBD here's an interesting article for you from the WSJ:
> 
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-t...te-clothing-item-gets-discontinued-1528126873
> 
> Hope you can access it.


And therein lies the reason so many of us Dandies have become sartorial hoarders to insure the future availability of our favored garments, shoes/boots and accessories! Count me guilty as charged.


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## 89826 (Jun 22, 2016)

Eagle, absolutely true for me also. I stockpile darn near everything I wear. It always seems that the good things disappear.


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## dks202 (Jun 20, 2008)

Can't read the article, I don't subscribe. Is it anywhere else?


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## Fading Fast (Aug 22, 2012)

dks202 said:


> Can't read the article, I don't subscribe. Is it anywhere else?


Try Googling it as, sometimes, the WSJ lets you read a article that way versus coming at it directly via its link.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Fading Fast said:


> Try Googling it as, sometimes, the WSJ lets you read a article that way versus coming at it directly via its link.


No dice.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

^^^

I, too, am not a subscriber to the *Wall Street Journal*. Accordingly, the link to the article did not get me anywhere, either.

However, I do have a San Francisco Public Library card. Using my card number and password, I logged onto the library's ProQuest database of newspapers and magazines. I clicked on WSJ, then clicked on the June 4, 2018 edition. The article in question was number 119 on the list of articles for that date. I clicked on the article's headline and was able to read the whole thing.

If that approach worked for me, it may work for you with respect to your local library--if you are a cardholder.

Speaking of libraries: Around 8 or 9 years ago I returned a book to my elementary school's library--47 years late. I sent it back along with a letter explaining why it was so late. I still have a copy of the letter; I could share its content if anyone cares. (In response, the school's principal thanked me and said she had placed the book--and my letter--in a display case in the front office.)

Sometimes I do weird things.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Another clothing-related article from the *Wall Street Journal*--

Thanks to my library card, I happened upon a WSJ article dated October 6, 2015. It's by Ralph Gardner Jr. and is under the following heading: "Some things never go out of style; Discussing the merits of khaki trousers, button-down shirts and custom-made suits with a fashion expert."

The "fashion expert" is G. Bruce Boyer. Ralph Gardner starts the article by disclosing some of his own sartorial concerns and opinions. For example, Mr. Gardner states: "When J. Crew stopped carrying an unhemmed version of my favorite khaki slacks, which can be easily tailored to my height, my reaction wasn't dissimilar to that of a patient who finds his heart medication has been discontinued."

Mr. Gardner really likes khakis: "I don't wear [khakis] to bed. But that's about the only place they don't go."

And button-down shirts are practically the only kind he wears. "The act of buttoning the collar when you dress in the morning provides the sensation that you're restoring order to an otherwise hostile and chaotic universe."

What did Mr. Gardner learn from G. Bruce Boyer? That Mr. Boyer:

* Wears custom-made shirts, sport coats and trousers from Savile Row
* Doesn't think khakis are just for middle-aged men
* Has a dim view of non-iron shirts
* Thinks that sneakers are okay at the gym or for medical reasons, but otherwise are "hyper-designed."


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## jts287 (Apr 19, 2018)

gamma68 said:


> No dice.


Worked for me the other day. The gist is that BB made the breast pockets on their shirts smaller, which upset a long-time aged customer. If I recall, the solution is to buy a bunch of stuff you like before the manufacturer changes/discontinues it.

Probably not the Journal's most hard-hitting article, but I'm a Times subscriber, so what do I know?


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## Vecchio Vespa (Dec 3, 2011)

There was a time when BB was truly BB. I worked in a bank in Houston and everything on my body other than my ring, my watch, and my glasses came from there. The woman who took care of me, Carol Dohra, knew my sizes and likes and was always putting things aside for me. BB moved, changing radically, and Carol left with the change. The clothing changed slowly, but by the late 80s the change was accelerating. I miss the OCBDs but have to say the ones from O’Connell’s are better. I miss the suits and jackets, but again, I have to say O’Connell’s and J. Press are comparable. I miss little things, like the calf belts with the leather wrapped buckles. When I went into the BB in Austin I was disappointed, and I gave them an F on customer service when I tried to exchange a pair of pajamas I’d been given. A little later they closed. It was not a loss. BB went away many years ago.


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## Old Road Dog (Sep 4, 2015)

TKI67 said:


> There was a time when BB was truly BB. I worked in a bank in Houston and everything on my body other than my ring, my watch, and my glasses came from there. The woman who took care of me, Carol Dohra, knew my sizes and likes and was always putting things aside for me. BB moved, changing radically, and Carol left with the change. The clothing changed slowly, but by the late 80s the change was accelerating. I miss the OCBDs but have to say the ones from O'Connell's are better. I miss the suits and jackets, but again, I have to say O'Connell's and J. Press are comparable. I miss little things, like the calf belts with the leather wrapped buckles. When I went into the BB in Austin I was disappointed, and I gave them an F on customer service when I tried to exchange a pair of pajamas I'd been given. A little later they closed. It was not a loss. BB went away many years ago.


Well said. Brooks Brothers today is a poor replica of a former establishment. Sort like the Rolex watch knockoffs that are sold on New York street corners, except legitimized.


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