# Washing machine help



## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

Our machine is about 15 years old and it is starting to wobble badly and make internal noises to a level that we have not experienced. I am seriously considering getting a front loader. While the dryer is not having problems, my wife may want a matching dryer.
I dont have Consumer Reports so I am wondering if any of you have suggestions on front loader vs. top loader, and if front loader, suggestions as far as brands, sizes, things to look for, things that are just a nice bell-and-whistle and anything COnsumer Reports calls a Best Buy?
Sam


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## Spence (Feb 28, 2006)

We've been using a front loader for a few years now and I love it. Ours are by LG and have performed perfectly (knocking on wood). Parts for LG if they need repair was an issue in the past, but may not be now...

Bosch is also excellent from what I've seen. 

-spence


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Well, I don't get Consumer Reports any more because I know them to be saying absolute garbage too many times (though, Washing Machines is one of those things then tend to be right about), but just about any public library should have them covering the past few years in binders.

The only thing I have to add is that front-loaders use much less water and also you are to put in much less detergent. They are more expensive to begin with though. It takes longer for a front-loader to do a wash cycle though. I've heard it said that front loaders are more gentle on clothing, but having used both I've never noticed.


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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

I did a google and COnsumer Search reported that the LG Tromm steam version and a Kenmore HE5 (If I recall correctly) were each toprated. Im figured $800 to $1200 or so is gonna be the range. Ill check Sears and Best Buy and a local guy carries Bosch


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## Spence (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm a big fan of Bosch appliances owning a gas range and dishwasher. They are really engineered well and perform in an outstanding manner. I would have bought the Bosch washer/dryer but the LG just had the better package at the time. 

I'm not biased because much of the Bosch stuff is designed using the software I sell, or that my parent company is a partner in their appliance business 

LG has really penetrated the market brilliantly. They offer style and performance that's a huge value for the money. 

I'd definately get the extended plan, and be sure to ask about repair history. LG has been around long enough now they may actually have one. I'm sure your local Bosch dealer will have a lot to say!

-spence


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

Consumer Reports rates the LG the highest, followed by a Whirlpool Steam Duet. For some reason I can't copy and paste the ratings chart and have it post correctly here. It looks fine when I paste it in my reply, but when I post the message it is all messed up! The LG is rated high on being gentle on clothing too. Let us know how you make out.


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## Capt Ron (Dec 28, 2007)

*Dont buy a front loader!!!!!!!!!!!*



memphislawyer said:


> Our machine is about 15 years old and it is starting to wobble badly and make internal noises to a level that we have not experienced. I am seriously considering getting a front loader. While the dryer is not having problems, my wife may want a matching dryer.
> I dont have Consumer Reports so I am wondering if any of you have suggestions on front loader vs. top loader, and if front loader, suggestions as far as brands, sizes, things to look for, things that are just a nice bell-and-whistle and anything COnsumer Reports calls a Best Buy?
> Sam


Screw the water consumption, it's insignificant. A total sham!

1. You can not add clothes in the middle of a cycle,

2. You also can restart a cycle in the middle of a cycle,

3. You cant skip a cycle or phase.

4. I dont believe you can jump just to spin cycle either if you wanted to as I do to dry out my wet scuba gear faster

5. If the door latch leaks (which they do) youre screwed.

6. I would not feel safe leaving the house with a front loader in cycle.

They IMHO do not get your clothes as clean because their is less agitation during the cleaning cycle.

Is a front loader sexier.......more fashion forward???? sure it is! 
It's like a side by side door fridge, much sexier and higher on the GLF scale, but truly not as economical in the long run.

If you want to be cooler than your neighbors..get the frotn loader. If you want to be smarter get a top loader with an extended warranty!

They are more expensive to buy and twice as expensive to fix.
It's a environmental scam to use less water, like hybrid cars that barely get 50mpg...wtf?

I have several rental apartments and several more I maintain... go to lowes or home depot, buy a decent washer Frigidaire and definitely buy the extended warranty.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Because of my interest in energy conservation I bought a front-loader several years ago. I think it washes the clothes just fine, although my wife doesn't agree. I think the water and energy savings are significant and worthwhile. It's also been my experience that the wash time is no more than a top-loader, and the front-loaders tend to be significantly quieter than top-loaders.

Still, there are a couple of things that are worth pointing out that I've never seen mentioned in any review:

1. The door opening is very low. They do sell pedastels for the washer and dryer, although I think they're grossly overpriced for what they are, but you may want one to avoid having to bend way over to load and unload the machine.
2. It's hard to avoid having some of the clean clothes fall out on the floor as you unload it, which is an annoyance.
3. Probably because of the way they spin cycle works, I find that I not infrequently have some of the items tightly wound up. For instance, I might find a towel wadded up in a coiled-up sheet, and they stay that way in the dryer if I'm not careful. Again, more of an annoyance than anything else.

The one that I got is an early generation Kenmore/Frigidaire model; I don't know if there is any advantage to the other brands. 
I don't see any benefit to replacing your dryer before your old one dies, even if that means you have two machines that don't match. Who cares about that? It's in your cellar, right? The one potential benefit is that it might be possible to get a matching dryer that you can stack on the washer, and there is some benefit to that.


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## Spence (Feb 28, 2006)

Capt Ron said:


> Screw the water consumption, it's insignificant. A total sham!
> 
> 1. You can not add clothes in the middle of a cycle,
> 
> ...


While I'd be surprised if the savings were as big as advertised, the real savings isn't the water, but rather the energy to heat it. If you do more hot loads I'd think this could have some reasonable impact, but not enough to justify alone.

Our LG certainly allows you to stop and restart in the middle of a cycle. You just have to wait for the water level to drop below the door before it automatically unlocks. And while I wouldn't want a leak, even if you were able to open the door during a large load there's really not all that much water that could leak out.

My experience after a few years is that they easily get clothes just as clean with much less wear, especially on wool or delicate items. I wash my fishing waders and other neoprene gear on the handwash cycle with no issues.

-spence


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

*Recommendation from our service mechanic*

Usually the guys that do the repairs have more reliable recommendations than Consumers U, etc. 
A couple of years ago, the service rep came out to work on our Amana. When I asked what brand that he would buy if he was in the market, he said Fisher & Paykel.

Never heard of it, but when ours burned out a bearing on Monday, we looked at all that the dealer had, and ended up with Fisher & Paykel.

Washer and dryer are both top loaders, if you have to have a front loader, they won't do.

However, the technology is incredible. No agitator in the washer, which is easier on the clothes. Controls are superb.

Before they were delivered, I cleaned out the closet where they are housed. Floor hadn't been scrubbed in 10, years. The rags were so soiled, that I would have normally thrown them away. They came out perfectly white.

Not cheap @ $2000 for the pair. However, no belt to replace, and motor can be replaced by tipping the washer forward, and unscrewing it. Repairs on the old Amana equipment were quite high, because of the motor configuration. (Whirlpool bought Amana, and it looks like they put their brand on the old Amana equipment.)

As a comparison, the cost to replace the bearing on the old Amana was over $400, because of the need to take out the motor.

A lot of good machines out there now. The technology has changed dramatically over the past decade.

Hope this helps. Good luck! Not a lot of fun, but it is something that is good to have behind you.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Intrepid said:


> Usually the guys that do the repairs have more reliable recommendations than Consumers U, etc.
> A couple of years ago, the service rep came out to work on our Amana. When I asked what brand that he would buy if he was in the market, he said Fisher & Paykel.
> 
> Never heard of it, but when ours burned out a bearing on Monday, we looked at all that the dealer had, and ended up with Fisher & Paykel.
> ...


I've heard those are great and believe they make dishwashers as well.

I prefer a top-loader so I can add things and redo cycles/stop the machine. Maybe front-loaders allow that but I'm not certain.

Having had a flood in my laundry room, I prefer a top-loader; if something goes wrong, at least the water is contained in a receptacle.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Fisher & Paykel dishwashers are absolute garbage. I don't know about the washing machines, but the dishwashers are great...if you're in the dishwasher repair business. (they also do fun things with parts prices - like they'll sell a part to authorized repair centers at $50 - and that's all it's worth - but if you want to buy it and do it yourself suddenly it's $350). For some reason when they were first on the US scene, everybody who works with them was saying how great they are (and it is true that everything they make is easy to repair, so maybe that's why), but now every honest appliance repair person will tell you that a once per year repair rate is normal on them.


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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

Well, I went for value, and got from Sears an LG 3.6 capacity frontloader, the WM2016CW, for $595.00. I found a 4.0 LG but it would have been $235.00 more, and the 3.6 is bigger than the 3.2 front loader I had anyway. They had some with steam, but our clothes don't get all that soiled and we never really used all the bells and whistles on the toploader. Colors are one temp and usually perm press, whites are one temp and one setting and towels and sheets and bed stuff one setting. Saw a Bosch for $849.00 but it was 3.8, saw a Fishkel for about $1000 and saw the Whirlpool Duet for $850 at 4.0 but the guy said the difference in price represents only at most 4 more towels between the 4.2 and a 3.6 capacity. LG was top-rated pretty much across the board.

One neat thing, I stopped in Best Buy and they did a 2 minute demo and gave me 4 free movie passes.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

I have a GE front load washer and like it fine, but I'm not doing anything like Capt. Ron does with wet suits, etc.

You can put items in after it starts, you just take it through the cycle and off, then the door will open and you start over.

It's easier to put clothes and and to take them out.

Consumer Reports rank for Top Loading:

Whilpool Cabrio HE WTW6600S
Kenmore elite Oasis HE 2708
Whirlpool Cabrio WTW6200S
Kenmore Oasis 2705

Front Loading:

LG Tromm SteamWasher WM2688H
Whirlpool Duet HT GHW9400P
Kenmroe Elite HE5t
Maytag Epic MFW9700S
GE Profile Harmony


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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

Andy, someone sent me a link to CR ratings and those you have show to be an 81 rating and the one I got was a 78. Most all of those are shown to be over $1000 MSRP and a Frigidaire is rated 78 also and is a Best Buy, but they did not have it at Sears. Any machine I guess can break down, but since CR is actually testing it and compiling data about consumer experiences, I feel good with the purchase. Sears guy told me they were selling so many that they do not have them in stock and wont get them unitl 3-2-08 and I can have mine delivered 3-8-08


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## Gong Tao Jai (Jul 7, 2005)

I recently had a Maytag front loader self destruct after little more than a year of use. I was understandably unhappy and tried to learn more about washing machines before I bought my next one. What I learned: 

-According to Consumer Reports, new rules requiring washing machines to use less water mean that new top loaders are not getting the clothes as clean as they used to. 

-Maytag stinks, avoid at all costs. One repairman would not even come out to look at our broken Maytag. 

-A repairman told us to get Whirlpool or Kenmore.

-Another repairman told us that we should only use HE detergent with a front loader, and no more than one tablespoon per load, more than that can screw up the machine.


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

marlinspike said:


> Fisher & Paykel dishwashers are absolute garbage. I don't know about the washing machines, but the dishwashers are great...if you're in the dishwasher repair business. (they also do fun things with parts prices - like they'll sell a part to authorized repair centers at $50 - and that's all it's worth - but if you want to buy it and do it yourself suddenly it's $350). For some reason when they were first on the US scene, everybody who works with them was saying how great they are (and it is true that everything they make is easy to repair, so maybe that's why), but now every honest appliance repair person will tell you that a once per year repair rate is normal on them.


How many appliance repairmen do you you talk to?


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

When out Maytag Neptune died (junk), we got a Whirlpool Cabrio. Only one glitch, needed a new control board which was fixed under warranty. It gets the clothes cleaner than the Neptune did and is quite gentle on them, even though they need to be "untwisted' when put into the dryer. The only thing I've noticed is that I have to be very careful with chlorine bleach as the lesser water amount greatly raises the chance of spotting the clothes. (And you can't beat the capacity, if you need it).


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I hava front loader by frigidaire...I got it because it was on sale, and I dont regret it at all...you'll save a sh!tload on your water bill, plus it's much more gentle on your clothes...had it for probably just under a year now, so it's still pretty new...but FWIW it runs like a top...


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

VS said:


> I've heard those are great and believe they make dishwashers as well.


Yes, the Fisher & Paykel dishdrawer is fantastic to use: the simple advantage of being able to rotate to drawers is a real help keeping the kitchen tidy.

I think there have been some issues in the past with them, most particularly in the U.S. Part of this was, at one point, due to the lack of a built-in water softener. You can see some of the issues people have reported on Amazon. In any case, I think most of those issues have been sorted out and my local dealer has only had one call out for a problem in the past year, and that was apparently due to the person rather than a machine.


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## Capt Ron (Dec 28, 2007)

*Water bills.........*

What I think most of people don't realize is that most water bills like mine include a fixed amount of water per month whether you use it or not.
Typically you ar enot charged per gallon, but per block of gallons. I believe our local water company charges a flat rate for the first 10,000 gallons of water.
Now, heating it...that I still believe is negligible. 
Watch for my energy saving post coming soon!


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

Capt Ron said:


> What I think most of people don't realize is that most water bills like mine include a fixed amount of water per month whether you use it or not.
> Typically you ar enot charged per gallon, but per block of gallons. I believe our local water company charges a flat rate for the first 10,000 gallons of water.
> Now, heating it...that I still believe is negligible.
> Watch for my energy saving post coming soon!


Perhaps you should consider an energy saving poll? :icon_smile_big: Now does make my 500th post meaningful? I'll race ya to 1000!!


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

Rossini said:


> Yes, the Fisher & Paykel dishdrawer is fantastic to use: the simple advantage of being able to rotate to drawers is a real help keeping the kitchen tidy.
> 
> I think there have been some issues in the past with them, most particularly in the U.S. Part of this was, at one point, due to the lack of a built-in water softener. You can see some of the issues people have reported on Amazon. In any case, I think most of those issues have been sorted out and my local dealer has only had one call out for a problem in the past year, and that was apparently due to the person rather than a machine.


See marlinspike's post above. Your dealer must not be honest and your dishwasher is junk even if it is problem free.:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

SpookyTurtle said:


> See marlinspike's post above. Your dealer must not be honest and your dishwasher is junk even if it is problem free.:icon_smile_big::icon_smile_big:


Ok, so they aren't faulty 100% of the time. Go read customer reviews of the product for yourself. The one my mom got btw has broken down 6 times in half as many years. The motors burn, the circuit boards short, the plastic bits break. On top of that, you can only use powder detergent and the thing hardly cleans. Oh, and the rinse cycles are inadequate too (also replaced the whole getup once, so it's not just one bad one). Much louder than other dishwashers in the price range too. Of course, she asked my opinion before buying, but did she listen to me? Nooooooo.

https://www.amazon.com/review/produ...ts=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending out of 10 reviews, 8 give it 2 stars or fewer. The store that sold it to her won't sell it anymore because of customer problems. Even the authorized repair people who come out (because their jacked up prices make it the same cost whether you buy the part and do it yourself or have a repairman come out) lament the parts quality. Plastic bin on top of all that.


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

marlinspike said:


> Ok, so they aren't faulty 100% of the time. Go read customer reviews of the product for yourself. The one my mom got btw has broken down 6 times in half as many years. The motors burn, the circuit boards short, the plastic bits break. On top of that, you can only use powder detergent and the thing hardly cleans. Oh, and the rinse cycles are inadequate too (also replaced the whole getup once, so it's not just one bad one). Much louder than other dishwashers in the price range too. Of course, she asked my opinion before buying, but did she listen to me? Nooooooo.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/review/produ...ts=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending out of 10 reviews, 8 give it 2 stars or fewer. The store that sold it to her won't sell it anymore because of customer problems. Even the authorized repair people who come out (because their jacked up prices make it the same cost whether you buy the part and do it yourself or have a repairman come out) lament the parts quality. Plastic bin on top of all that.


I believe your experience is true. But you make a bold statement that any honest repairman will tell you that they will require a repair once a year. Big difference between opinion and fact. What you state as fact here and in many threads is your opinion, not a fact. Your opinion is valid and an important contribution to the forum. Stating your opnions as facts can be misleading in some instances, that's all.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

We have had a Maytag washer and dryer for about 8 years and they are working fine. _Which reminds me, I have to get off AAAC and do some laundry....._


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

memphislawyer said:


> Well, I went for value, and got from Sears an LG 3.6 capacity frontloader, the WM2016CW, for $595.00. I found a 4.0 LG but it would have been $235.00 more, and the 3.6 is bigger than the 3.2 front loader I had anyway. They had some with steam, but our clothes don't get all that soiled and we never really used all the bells and whistles on the toploader. Colors are one temp and usually perm press, whites are one temp and one setting and towels and sheets and bed stuff one setting. Saw a Bosch for $849.00 but it was 3.8, saw a Fishkel for about $1000 and saw the Whirlpool Duet for $850 at 4.0 but the guy said the difference in price represents only at most 4 more towels between the 4.2 and a 3.6 capacity. LG was top-rated pretty much across the board.
> 
> One neat thing, I stopped in Best Buy and they did a 2 minute demo and gave me 4 free movie passes.


Hope it serves you well. Personally I steer clear of front loading washing machines, because I haven't found one that provides the same amount of user control as top loaders (access to clothes at any time during a cycle, etc).

But the major problem now is trying to bypass government nannyism. The water usage requirements that recently took effect are absurdly restrictive, and the only two ways to get around these evil laws are to buy an older model, or buy a new model from outside the U.S. It's just one of many examples of a bloated government sticking its nose where it doesn't belong, e.g. we recently shopped for a new mattress and had to get a freaking note from our doctor to avoid sleeping in petrochemical-based fire retardants every night.

I'll continue to wait patiently for the revolution.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

SpookyTurtle said:


> I believe your experience is true. But you make a bold statement that any honest repairman will tell you that they will require a repair once a year. Big difference between opinion and fact. What you state as fact here and in many threads is your opinion, not a fact. Your opinion is valid and an important contribution to the forum. Stating your opnions as facts can be misleading in some instances, that's all.


Ok, well, I hereby declare that any statements I make on an internet forum are only my opinions. The way I've always seen it is if I'm saying it, I think it, but as I am a mortal, I can only think in opinions, not facts (I suppose the exception to this would be certain forms of mathematics), so I see no need to couch my statements with a disclaimer that they are merely my opinion.


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

marlinspike said:


> Ok, well, I hereby declare that any statements I make on an internet forum are only my opinions. The way I've always seen it is if I'm saying it, I think it, but as I am a mortal, I can only think in opinions, not facts (I suppose the exception to this would be certain forms of mathematics), so I see no need to couch my statements with a disclaimer that they are merely my opinion.


That wasn't my point and you know it wasn't.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

SpookyTurtle said:


> That wasn't my point and you know it wasn't.


Honestly, I don't, and I was being genuine (i.e. I was recognizing that people could construe that I make statements as facts and declaring that they should instead be viewed as opinion, which is how I've always assumed people read them).


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## SpookyTurtle (Nov 4, 2007)

marlinspike said:


> Honestly, I don't, and I was being genuine (i.e. I was recognizing that people could construe that I make statements as facts and declaring that they should instead be viewed as opinion, which is how I've always assumed people read them).


Understood. No problem. :icon_smile:


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