# It feels like close to 42 years of public service just went down the Sh*thole!



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Close to 42 years of my adult life were spent wearing the uniform of one of this country's military services and/or working as a civil servant, carrying out the American peoples business, as I may have been ordered to do. I passionately love the USA, as has become apparent in a few of my earlier postings. The blood in my veins literally runs Red, White and Blue. Reflecting on our membership, I am not unique in such regard. However, in spite of all that, recent disclosures regarding our national leadership greatly disgust me and cause me to question, after all these years of service, have I been that big of a fool! 

It was recently acknowledged that members of the US Congress had crafted and put in place a neat little scheme to cover up and avoid being held accountable for their boorish and criminal behavior in committing sexual assaults and violations against women, through the payment of "hush money," using taxpayer funds. Last evening, it was reported on (I think) virtually every major news feed that our President had referred to immigrants from Haiti and South African nations as people with problems coming from "shit hole" countries. I am shamed and indeed our Country's national stature, in the eyes of our sister nations of this gobe we occupy, is diminished by such words and actions and frankly I am better than that, as are so many other Americans! 

I believe this is an appropriate issue for discussion, but caution that it could prove to be a slippery slope and we should not overly personalize responses to the point that the thread goes off the rails:crazy:. Talking like that, leaves me with the depressing thought... Egad, I sound like a politician!


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

A few things:

1) I, too, was shocked to hear about the slush fund used to pay our sexual harassment claims. All the more reason to term limit these guys and after so many years, turn them back out into the real world to sink or swim (I’m guessing they’ll sink). 

2) though uncuthe and vulgar, I’m sorry but those countries are s***holes. Our immigration system needs to be completely overhauled to give preference to more skilled workers.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Speaking as one who currently serves his country in one of the less aesthetically pleasing countries in the world, I can certainly see why the people here want to go to my home country. Over the years, I have vouched for several of my long serving employees to be granted a Special Immigrant Visa. I consider this to be one of the most fulfilling experiences in my life of government service. It is life changing in every regard, both for me and for them.

Given that 95% of the world media comes from the USA and glorifies the American lifestyle, what third world child with flies in their eyes drawing drinking water from a cess pool wouldn't dream of being an American some day? The question isn't "why" do they want to come to America, but how can America finally come to grips with massive third world immigration in a fair, regulated and efficient manner. I am very conservative in matters of immigration, but I realize that well regulated immigration is the lifeblood of our nation. The shambolic system we have had does no service to citizens or those wishing to legally immigrate. In addition, America and Europe can't serve as a relief valve for the world's problems, when issues abroad are better addressed abroad.

The colonial period ended when the colonial powers came to the realization that it is better for a country to be poorly governed by its own people than moderately well governed by a foreign power. Similarly, it is probably better for the majority of people to stay in their home country, building their own society, than allowing a constant brain drain to the west.

Eagle2250, you are not a fool. It is just that our elected officials have let us down. Our military and our diplomatic corps are two of the most patriotic and powerful forces on the planet. Yet, we are often hamstrung by a leadership that is sadly uninformed as to the realities of life beyond our shores.

Cheers,

BSR


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Close to 42 years of my adult life were spent wearing the uniform of one of this country's military services and/or working as a civil servant, carrying out the American peoples business, as I may have been ordered to do. I passionately love the USA, as has become apparent in a few of my earlier postings. The blood in my veins literally runs Red, White and Blue. Reflecting on our membership, I am not unique in such regard. However, in spite of all that, recent disclosures regarding our national leadership greatly disgust me and cause me to question, after all these years of service, have I been that big of a fool!
> 
> It was recently acknowledged that members of the US Congress had crafted and put in place a neat little scheme to cover up and avoid being held accountable for their boorish and criminal behavior in committing sexual assaults and violations against women, through the payment of "hush money," using taxpayer funds. Last evening, it was reported on (I think) virtually every major news feed that our President had referred to immigrants from Haiti and South African nations as people with problems coming from "shit hole" countries. I am shamed and indeed our Country's national stature, in the eyes of our sister nations of this gobe we occupy, is diminished by such words and actions and frankly I am better than that, as are so many other Americans!
> 
> I believe this is an appropriate issue for discussion, but caution that it could prove to be a slippery slope and we should not overly personalize responses to the point that the thread goes off the rails:crazy:. Talking like that, leaves me with the depressing thought... Egad, I sound like a politician!


There's much to be depressed about. Your long service to our country does you honor, and our country is the better for it.

I view current happenings from multiple perspectives; on one hand, and I'll be frank, I view our current chief executive and his cronies with both extreme distaste and dismay. But I've also always felt congress well characterized by the title of P. J. O'Rourke's book, A _Parliament of Whores_.

However while the flagrant, in-your-face nature is novel, which of itself should be alarming, some of it isn't really that new. Among fairly recent Presidents I can't help but remember Nixon and LBJ. Both of these gentlemen were major potty-mouths! Though not stupidly so. If you can access Nixon's ranting on his tapes, or remarks by Johnson regarding specific individuals you will find statements every bit as crass, though not at dumb.

And I'm afraid that an examination of American history does not yield a long procession of selfless public servants as much as boundless oceans of scalawags and miscreants seeking personal enrichment and aggrandizement. I am currently reading Ron Chernow's very enjoyable biography titled _Grant. _It is a fascinating account of the man and civil war, but it makes clear that this war was perceived by many in the Union cause as the career opportunity of a life time, and this includes the subject himself. And while he evidently *did* have a high sense of honor and strove to conduct himself accordingly, it did not necessarily extend to his family, and he himself could fall victim to prejudices.

During the Vicksburg campaign, his father Jesse (Chief among scalawags!) showed up before Grant with three brothers as business partners who happened to be Jewish merchants, and demanded that Grant give them permits to purchase cotton. (This just one of Jesse's endless schemes to benefit himself through his son.) Grant sent them all back north on a train, but was so incensed by this as a general problem and his father's repeated schemes, that he attempted to outlaw all Jews within his department! While he himself was not an anti-semite, this became a dishonor he acknowledged and that he was never able to live down.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Thanks to all for your reassuring words that I am not a fool, but with all candor, I must tell you that there are more than a few out there who might want to debate you on that point (LOL). 

I find myself continuing to wonder as to the obvious disconnect between the disturbing realities of current political conversations and events and the inspirational words from the iconic poem, titled "The New Colossus" by Emma Lazarus, inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty which reads:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free."

These are the words that have greeted so many of those coming to this great nation of ours, seeking a new and better life. Are our national shoulders no longer broad enough, our collective hearts no longer big enough to welcome those poor souls facing great, life threatening challenges coming from locations that some might characterize as "sh*thole" countries? I greatly respect each of the three respondents above, for I am sure that each of these AAAC members has made personal sacrifices to provide for the greater good and to meet the needs of others over the courses of their lives and careers. That's what makes a country such as ours a great place in which to live and of which to be justly proud. Our national focus has turned inward, truncating our world vision and limiting the positive influence we may have been able to have on world affairs. I would certainly wish we could make the necessarily hard decisions regarding immigration policy, without denigrating/insulting those less fortunate.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

SG_67 said:


> A few things:
> 
> 1) I, too, was shocked to hear about the slush fund used to pay our sexual harassment claims. All the more reason to term limit these guys and after so many years, turn them back out into the real world to sink or swim (I'm guessing they'll sink).
> 
> 2) though uncuthe and vulgar, I'm sorry but those countries are s***holes. Our immigration system needs to be completely overhauled to give preference to more skilled workers.


Except that citizens of the countries the POTUS feels are desirable have neither need nor much desire to emigrate. Leave Norway to live here? Whatever for?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Oldsarge said:


> Except that citizens of the countries the POTUS feels are desirable have neither need nor much desire to emigrate. Leave Norway to live here? Whatever for?


Better pay and lower taxes depending on one's profession.

I know quite a few actually.

By the way, for all those who lament our racist immigration policies and look north or to Europe should consider Canada's immigration requirements which are merit based as well as the majority of Brits who want some semblance of control over their borders and economy.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

#MeToo


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

The way Trump has approached the subject, which is very crass, shouldn't be turning heads more than some of the Justices in 1973 voted that murder, by the name of abortion, is OK, in their polite way. Which, is far worse? The Supreme Court ruling still exists. Trump will be gone in a while and how much of what he does will even be around in a few year after? 
The lie that political correctness is is still being pushed by the left. Before political correctness was invented, speech was more of a sport. The sport is far wiser than the political correctness, where the left keeps moving the goal post. I'd rather, by far, have crass and honesty than the other way around. 
Abortion is murdering the innocent. The same people who keep abortion are against killing adults who choose to murder. Something is seriously wrong here when serious murder is not that bad and murdering the unborn is fine. Clearly the Democrat party is saying murder is fine, either way. Eagle, why are you not outraged by this? Isn't murder far more important than what Trump is doing? At least Trump has abortion and capital punishment correct.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I disagree. I don't believe that Trump has anything correct, politically or otherwise.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

To each there own. 
I voted against Hillary. The outside of her book may look fine. The inside is horror. Trumps not as terrible as Hillary.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

SG_67 said:


> Better pay and lower taxes depending on one's profession.
> 
> I know quite a few actually
> 
> By the way, for all those who lament our racist immigration policies and look north or to Europe should consider Canada's immigration requirements which are merit based as well as the majority of Brits who want some semblance of control over their borders and economy.


I am a veteran of the Navy. My brother did 6 years in the Navy. My 82 year old father is a retired U.S. Naval aviator with 296 missions over North Vietnam in A3D's and A6 Intruders. I grew up in and around U.S. Naval Air Stations.

Being a military brat I grew up in an environment of rich cultural and ethnic diversity.
I celebrate anyone who wishes to come to the United States and seek citizenship,...Legally. Our polarized media refuses to call people who are undocumented "Illegal Aliens." They are in fact illegal. Stating this objective fact, especially being "Not of color," means you will be labeled "Racist."

I am proud to be a U.S. Citizen.

But our government is corrupt. The best that can be said about our government is that it is not as corrupt as many others,......And that is not good enough. Our corporate media has been purchased by the same special interests that own our politicians.

The only worse choice for Speaker of the House rather than Paul Ryan would be Nancy Pelosi. The only worse choice for Senate Majority Leader verses Mitch McConnell, would be Chuck Shumer.
The only worse choice for President would have been a member of the Clinton crime family.

And the only example I can imagine that is more willfully ignorant than a partisan Democrat would be a partisan Republican.

I do realize how dystopian this sounds but being an avid current events junkie for almost four decades has brought me here.

In spite of it all I love my life.

I love the United States but I fear what our government has become.

Post script: Written on my tablet so please do not judge,....


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

The election of 2016 gave us the worst choices in modern history. I refused to vote for POTUS though I faithfully completed the rest of my ballot. I am looking forward to a divided government after the 2018 election. But after that . . . ?


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Here are some ideas I have read over the years. 

1. Our border must be secure. A sovereign nation has the right to control it's border and to regulate access and egress in a systematic, legal, and humane manner.

2. Legal immigration must be conducted in a fair, efficient, and transparent manner with the qualifications for immigration being reasonable and beneficial to our nation. 

3. Those who access our nation illegally or who overstay their visas should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and returned to their home countries without delay. They are to be permanently denied future access because they broke the law. 

4. Those who are in our country on a visa, if they commit any significant offence, should be deported. They are to be permanently denied future access because they broke the law. 

5. The children of non-citizens born in America should not be granted automatic citizenship. There should be a reasonable pathway to citizenship for these people, but it should not be an automatic birth rite of geography. 

6. Those who are in America illegally should not have access to government services or benefits with the exception of life threatening medical situations. 

7. America should prioritize support for impoverished nations in our immediate region in order to boost economies and stabilize governments to reduce the motivation to flee to America.

8. America should encourage family planning in the developing world to defuse the demographic time bomb facing the planet.

9. Military service, with an honorable discharge, would be a priority pathway to citizenship. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> I am a veteran of the Navy. My brother did 6 years in the Navy. My 82 year old father is a retired U.S. Naval aviator with 296 missions over North Vietnam in A3D's and A6 Intruders. I grew up in and around U.S. Naval Air Stations.
> 
> Being a military brat I grew up in an environment of rich cultural and ethnic diversity.
> I celebrate anyone who wishes to come to the United States and seek citizenship,...Legally. Our polarized media refuses to call people who are undocumented "Illegal Aliens. " They are in fact illegal. Stating this objective fact, especially being "Not of color," means you will be labeled "Racist."
> ...


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Here are some ideas I have read over the years.
> 
> 1. Our border must be secure. A sovereign nation has the right to control it's border and to regulate access and egress in a systematic, legal, and humane manner.
> 
> ...


Listening to NPR, I heard that Angela Merkel has finally succeeded in finding a coalition, and that an item on their agenda will be *better control of Germany's borders!*


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"
over a period of perhaps 2000 years, the Great Wall of China was built to keep out the bad guys..."the undesirables!" It is now looked upon as one of the Great Wonders of the World! A wall along our southern boarder is not a bad thing, but 'the Great wall of the southern USA' would (arguably) be a prohibitively expensive undertaking and in all probability would not be completed during the period of a single political dynasty(). On the other hand an electronic fence could be completed much more quickly, at a much, much lower cost and it would more effectively perform the mission for which it was intended, but then, would it ever be considered to be one of the great wonders of the world? :icon_scratch:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I read an article on the Yahoo news feed earlier this morning in which it was revealed that three of Fox New's hosts, including Jessie Watters, Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, had professed that the "Shithole countries" characterization was just how real people (real Americans) talk in a bar, over a beer and that it shouldn't be cause for so much concern. I'm not sure whether I should be repelled by these Fox New's Hosts or by the neanderthals who make such comments, if what the new's hosts have said is true(?)! However, if a guest in our home made such a comment, I am certain that they would be asked to leave.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

It would have been much better if President Trump, instead of using That Noun, had said (in reference to Haiti, El Salvador, etc.) the following: “countries that have deep-seated, pervasive, and intractable political, economic, and social pathologies that make life hopeless for the inhabitants.”

But that’s not how people really talk in private.

Still, President Trump should have known that he was speaking with some of his political opponents and that, inevitably, his comment would be leaked, thereby creating an unnecessary distraction as well as a hit to our national dignity. So, even though what he said was not untrue, the pragmatic thing would have been to use a non-inflammatory noun or expression.

In any case, I always make a distinction between (a) the government of, and conditions in, a crappy country and (b) the many decent people who have the misfortune of living in that country. There are a lot of countries for which I wouldn’t give two pennies, but I am certainly open to having some of the people living there immigrate legally to the United States (indeed, I am the grandson of immigrants). I do ask that once—or shortly after—they arrive here, they pull their own freight and obey all laws.

One final word about our national dignity: I suspect that if we keep spreading the foreign aid, our national dignity will mysteriously recover as the recipients find it in their hearts to forgive and forget. Money: it’s the ultimate morning-after pill.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Here are some ideas I have read over the years.
> 
> 1. Our border must be secure. A sovereign nation has the right to control it's border and to regulate access and egress in a systematic, legal, and humane manner.
> 
> ...


It is almost as though you read my thoughts. Spot on.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

If the problem is illegal immigration, there are potent remedies which could curtail it, but which are deliberately ignored. And the Great Wall of Trump isn't among them. Largely ignored from both the left and right is the question of who profits from it?

The problem is less the poor immigrants, and rather those who enrich themselves from them. The labor brokers who now supply virtually all the restaurant help, paying the immigrants pennies while growing fat. The developers and contractors building McMansions, and also paying little to immigrants for largely unskilled work.

And those who work in the hospitality industry, those who run hotels and resorts employing multitudes of chambermaids, parking lot attendants, bus boys, grounds keepers, etc. Someone like The Trump Organization which is undoubtedly a major employer of illegal immigrants. Yes, while on one hand he turns the issue into political capital, on the other he's making money from it!

Instead of political bloviating while stuffing money into their pockets, what if those truly responsible for the problem paid the price? Lock up some up, and watch the demand for illegal labor dwindle.


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

Just before I read eagles initial statement, (which I agree with) having been both in the military during Viet Nam and in public service in my state for 35 years at a university, I was actively thinking about the difference between Trump and Mueller. What I was contemplating was "How can two men, both coming from privileged backgrounds, with ivy league educations, become so different in their lives- one being a taker (Trump) and one a giver (Mueller)" From all accounts that I have read, Trump cheats everyone he can. Mueller on the other hand is a decorated veteran a public servant and a man with a dedication to our constitution and principles of fairness and law. I just do not understand how they can be so divergent.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

One's achievements need not be diminished by external context - remain proud Eagle.

As to sh*thole countries - perhaps it is kinder to be explicit. Effective feedback to motivate improvement.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

1. Trump has now stated that he did not use those words. Whom will you believe? Him or an anonymous leaker?

2. Haiti and many African nations (indeed, most of the word) are not very nice places. Much of Europe is in fact quite regressive compared to the U.S. (crede experto). Why should we be a dumping zone for the world's wretches? Good and brave people should work to better their own homes, not seek to invade and take from others.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Pentheos said:


> 1. Trump has now stated that he did not use those words. Whom will you believe? Him or an anonymous leaker?


This is quite possibly the funniest thing posted in this forum in a long time. Good job!


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

smmrfld said:


> This is quite possibly the funniest thing posted in this forum in a long time. Good job!


It is! But #2 isn't far behind. Heaven help us if the U.S. ever wound up being as dreadful to live in as Switzerland, Germany or Denmark!


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Flanderian said:


> It is! But #2 isn't far behind. Heaven help us if the U.S. ever wound up being as dreadful to live in as Switzerland, Germany or Denmark!


True. I was choosing to ignore his #2 reference to "the world's wretches" though, simply because it wasn't worth a reply.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I had presumed that Pentheos was, broadly, referring to those countries more recently permitted to join the EU - especially those who seemingly failed to meet the Copenhagen criteria.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Jeez Louise, do the insults to this besieged, but still beloved Republic of ours never cease? Fox news reported that that Chelsea Manning has filed in Baltimore MD, to run for Ben Carson's US Senate seat! "He (Manning)was arrested in 2010, convicted of treason in 2013 and sentenced to 35 years in prison, and his/her(?) sentence was commuted after serving seven years and she was released in 2017. Indeed, it seems we have lost our collective minds! :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Eagle, my friend, at the risk of competing for abhorrence, take comfort from my misery.

Are you aware of the incoming addition to our U.K. royal bloodline?


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Queen mum is getting another corgi?

I did hear about 50,000 cancelled surgeries. Truth to that?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Pentheos said:


> Queen mum is getting another corgi?
> 
> I did hear about 50,000 cancelled surgeries. Truth to that?


I am unaware of the precise numbers but, indeed, all non-urgent operations were cancelled for a period in order to accommodate a bottleneck.

All of this said, before you become too complacent, these were free operations. Need I continue?


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Shaver said:


> I am unaware of the precise numbers but, indeed, all non-urgent operations were cancelled for a period in order to accommodate a bottleneck.
> 
> All of this said, before you become too complacent, these were free operations. Need I continue?


None of them pay taxes?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Pentheos said:


> None of them pay taxes?


Pentheos I enjoy your posts and suspect that we agree more often than we disagree. With this in mind I urge you not to become a fish in a barrel.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

My recent medical tourism visit to the hospital in Bangkok for a minor procedure was nothing short of remarkable in regard to quality, speed of service and price. The place was packed with folks from Arabia doing the same as I. 

Beats the experience I have had in the UK and the US. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> My recent medical tourism visit to the hospital in Bangkok for a minor procedure was nothing short of remarkable in regard to quality, speed of service and price. The place was packed with folks from Arabia doing the same as I.
> 
> Beats the experience I have had in the UK and the US.
> 
> ...


What is the service like for the locals though?

Are these hospitals equipped with the latest and greatest in order to accommodate foreigners with money?

Casinos on the strip look and feel very different from those catering to the locals.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

One of my friends had his sex re-assignment surgery in Bangkok. I am still amused by his choice.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ Uhm,....Yeah, funny stuff.:icon_scratch:


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> I read an article on the Yahoo news feed earlier this morning in which it was revealed that three of Fox New's hosts, including Jessie Watters, Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity, had professed that the "Shithole countries" characterization was just how real people (real Americans) talk in a bar, over a beer and that it shouldn't be cause for so much concern. I'm not sure whether I should be repelled by these Fox New's Hosts or by the neanderthals who make such comments, if what the new's hosts have said is true(?)! However, if a guest in our home made such a comment, I am certain that they would be asked to leave.


You never went to the high school I went to. Only one word out of four were decent. Three out of four were indecent four letters. Going back after summer the first two weeks my ears were burning. A private Christian school would have been nice to go to. 
Many jobs I have worked and the language was even worse. One place I worked they called me preacher. And many though I was. That place was so terrible that some of the men quit because of what the women said. Got more of an education there, of what I didn't want to know, than anywhere else.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> If the problem is illegal immigration, there are potent remedies which could curtail it, but which are deliberately ignored. And the Great Wall of Trump isn't among them. Largely ignored from both the left and right is the question of who profits from it?
> 
> The problem is less the poor immigrants, and rather those who enrich themselves from them. The labor brokers who now supply virtually all the restaurant help, paying the immigrants pennies while growing fat. The developers and contractors building McMansions, and also paying little to immigrants for largely unskilled work.
> 
> ...


Yep. We'd get a new president that way.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, do the insults to this besieged, but still beloved Republic of ours never cease? Fox news reported that that Chelsea Manning has filed in Baltimore MD, to run for Ben Carson's US Senate seat! "He (Manning)was arrested in 2010, convicted of treason in 2013 and sentenced to 35 years in prison, and his/her(?) sentence was commuted after serving seven years and she was released in 2017. Indeed, it seems we have lost our collective minds! :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


Good ol Obama, huh? Believe he is responsible for setting a traitor free and able to become a senator.

Being nice is a good thing, when it is intelligent.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Flanderian said:


> If the problem is illegal immigration, there are potent remedies which could curtail it, but which are deliberately ignored. And the Great Wall of Trump isn't among them. Largely ignored from both the left and right is the question of who profits from it?
> 
> The problem is less the poor immigrants, and rather those who enrich themselves from them. The labor brokers who now supply virtually all the restaurant help, paying the immigrants pennies while growing fat. The developers and contractors building McMansions, and also paying little to immigrants for largely unskilled work.
> 
> ...


I say again, that mass illegal immigration to the United States and other developed Western economies is not only inevitable but *intentional!* It is a desired result of economic policies put in place in concert by both big-government Democrats and big-business Republicans. And as they squabble over who gets to spend more of the money, they wink and nod at each other as they conceal the real intent of their policies from the American People.

"*Global labor arbitrage -*

jobs move to nations where labor and the cost of doing business (such as environmental regulations) is inexpensive and/or *impoverished labor moves to nations with higher paying jobs.*

Often, a prosperous nation (such as the United States) will remove its barriers to international trade, integrating its labor market with those of nations with a lower cost of labor (such as India, China, and Mexico), *resulting in a shifting of jobs from the prosperous nation to the developing one. *The end result is an increase in the supply of labor relative to the demand for labor, which means a decrease in costs *and a decrease in wages."*

However, the decrease in costs does not necessarily translate to an equivalent decrease in price to the consumer. Markets, not cost of goods sold, establish prices. So the intent and practice is that the majority of any decrease in cost is retained by the seller.

The Democrats' solution to the existing damage, and on-going harm, inflicted on the United States by global labor arbitrage is a college education for everyone. While a good of itself, accomplishing this has significant practical obsticals. But more specifically, is this *actually* a remedy to the ills of global labor arbitrage?

The above is a succinct explanation of the practice and its consequences. Ask yourself how these college degrees will in anyway change the mechanism inherent in these policies? Will IT workers in India suddenly have the same pay scale as in the United States? Will Chinese steel executives begin paying U.S. wages to their workers? Or will America simply have the best educated generation of fry cooks, chamber maids, and warehousemen in the history of our republic?


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

SG_67 said:


> What is the service like for the locals though?
> 
> Are these hospitals equipped with the latest and greatest in order to accommodate foreigners with money?
> 
> Casinos on the strip look and feel very different from those catering to the locals.


Service for locals seems to be fairly legit. There is a large middle class in Thailand. Thailand certainly isn't a mismanaged dump of human suffering by any stretch.

Yes, I get first class medical care where ever I go because I have excellent (and expensive) family coverage insurance and can make up any difference out of pocket. I am very grateful for this and I certainly don't take it for granted. The hospital I visit in BKK is geared toward Expats and well off Thais. The only comparable American medical service I have received was from the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, FL. The Mayo Clinic is spectacular.

My son accepted his first job in NYC starting in July. I told him I need him off my medical insurance so please take a job that provides the complete range of benefits. I am glad to say he followed my advice.

I don't gamble in casinos so I will have to take your word for it. I don't make enough to throw my $ away!  I spend it on clothes.

Cheers,

BSR


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I don't make enough to throw my $ away!  I spend it on clothes.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


A spectacularly sound plan!


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> I say again, that mass illegal immigration to the United States and other developed Western economies is not only inevitable but *intentional!* It is a desired result of economic policies put in place in concert by both big-government Democrats and big-business Republicans. And as they squabble over who gets to spend more of the money, they wink and nod at each other as they conceal the real intent of their policies from the American People.
> 
> "*Global labor arbitrage -*
> 
> ...


Greenspan wanted all Americans to have college degrees so Americans do higher up jobs and send the lower wage jobs out. A good plan. Except, life does not work that way. Still need union type jobs for blue collar (plumbers, welders, electricians, machinists and the like). Bill Gates wanted schools putting out computer programers. Then, they ran out of artist for making art for the software. Some families don't know how to properly push their children to a higher education, or interfere there after, so social problems. There are many reasons for success and failures, and many people land in between.


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## TheBigOne (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for this perspective. I thought it was just a few of us that felt that our current governing personalities were more interested in what’s in it for themselves than worrying about how to fix what’s clearly broken. I actually worked on Capitol Hill in the ‘70’s and recall many dedicated Members who worked hard to get a reasonable consensus around solving problems. I don’t feel that happens anymore. 


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Back in the seventies there were still conservatives and liberals in both parties. And liberals were nothing like they are today. Even a few years ago they were "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," . Some liberals, or ex-liberals, say that's not at all true, anymore. They have no interest in defending our rights, anymore. Agree with them, or you are a terrible person, is what many have become. And they will bring back the death penalty for those who disagree with them. Greed is something to watch. There is a tipping point with greed where seriously bad things start happening to good people. 
President Ford was a liberal.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

So the liberals are going to bring back the death penalty? Wow I really don' t understand politics.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

David J. Cooper said:


> So the liberals are going to bring back the death penalty? Wow I really don' t understand politics.


Well, what is abortion? And, again, at that, an innocent life. But, from my perspective, what is vice? And when does the vice become over powering. And where does the vice take people? If you have never done any research on vice maybe you should.
Penalty? Why has the left brought penalty against Christians when the Bill of Rights protects Christians from these new penalties? If the left wants these penalties don't they need to change the Bill of Rights first? Having watched the left since the late seventies they don't seem to care about the laws on the books. But they do make some to attack people and groups they do not like, such as Christians, now. The Bill of Rights says that the government can't go against Christians living their faith, which includes business. Obviously the democrats don't want the Bill Of Rights anymore or they wouldn't be undermining it. Left judges are involved in undermining the Bill of Rights, too. Then there are a few weak brained judges on the right. These people lied when they swore an oath to defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Where does the vice take these people next?


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## Dcr5468 (Jul 11, 2015)

WA said:


> Back in the seventies there were still conservatives and liberals in both parties. And liberals were nothing like they are today. Even a few years ago they were "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it," . Some liberals, or ex-liberals, say that's not at all true, anymore. They have no interest in defending our rights, anymore. Agree with them, or you are a terrible person, is what many have become. And they will bring back the death penalty for those who disagree with them. Greed is something to watch. There is a tipping point with greed where seriously bad things start happening to good people.
> President Ford was a liberal.


At some point the pendulum swings too far; that's how Trump was elected. If Democrats can't find a centrist to unite a large voting block they will continue to have a tough time. It's telling that Mitch Landrieu, mayor of New Orleans, is considered a rising star in the party. Read the local headlines about the abysmal job he has done in the city - I am a resident here and completely baffled he is considered a viable candidate for any public office, much less President.

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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Hope you are right about moderate. 
It seems that the Republicans take a step forward and then pushed back two, repeat for forty years and where are we now? Reagan made some head way. What is Trump? As far as moderate goes America is so far left now. It would take a miracle to become moderate.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^ Not intending to register any substantial disagreement with what you have said above, but isn't it the votes of (perhaps a misguided) American voter base that puts the present (and earlier) crop(s) of 'jacklegs' in Congress and in the White House, facilitating this shift to which you refer. Are we witnessing the realization of the intent of the American people...I hope not! Or is all of this in fact, more the result of the resident evil, inherent in the beast we know as a professional politician. It seems to me that our forefathers warned against and tried to avoid the travesty with which we are presently saddled! We should have more closely listened to and considered their cautions.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Republicans seem to want to be the underdog. Thought this years ago and the latest republican letter to show up at my address said the same. It is like they don't want to be leaders. That gives the Democrats a lot of persuasive power. The Republicans are fighting the battle all wrong. And then there is the news media. Democrats are outspoken and embellished by the news media while what the Republicans say is mangled by the same news corporations. Yeah. Voters are responsible for the losses that they are making. Reagan was an inspirational person. A real leader. Take pride in yourself. Pull yourself up by your boot straps. How many Republicans inspire people to do something good for themselves? The Democrats are pushing handouts. They make government dependency sound good. Be a can do nothing. Make so many laws that many people give up trying pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. What public school instructs students to go out and create a business? They mention it a little bit. But, no mandatory classes. They teach their students to work for other people. For most people the only way they will be able to get away from poverty or middle class is by investing. How many public schools teaches that? Students are sent out with a lot of miss-information. The Republicans aren't even much of an underdog.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Would any of today's crop of politicians look this dynamic and in charge on the campaign trail? No way.

There is an unrestrained joy to this image. Is there any hint of fun in today's politics? Not so much.

Cheers,

BSR


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^As was sung so eloquently by Mary Hopkins back in 1968 (I think),
"Those were the days, my friends. We thought they would never end," but they sure as hell seem to have done just that!


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

......We'd fight and never lose, for we were young and sure to have our way.

I wish I could make out the shoes Ronnie is wearing.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Would any of today's crop of politicians look this dynamic and in charge on the campaign trail? No way.
> 
> There is an unrestrained joy to this image. Is there any hint of fun in today's politics? Not so much.
> 
> ...


At the time I believed the Gipper to be an idiot unfit for the role. However, in hindsight, he is the best POTUS since Peanut Carter.

Further, I believe that Trump will (despite the whining of liberals, savages, perverts and the mentally ill) become fit for Rushmore.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

To fight back you can't be nice all the time. So many Republicans are so gentlemanly they're almost worthless. I actually prayed for someone who can take the brutality of the left, and win. Someone who will hit back, which isn't nice, but needs to be done. The Democrats have hit the Republicans so many times without the Republicans hitting back. At least half the professors in public colleges should be conservative. It is time the Republicans hit back on these cheating liberals, progressives. Some younger Republicans (Rubio) don't even know they are sometimes defending left view points, because the left has filtrated into society to much.
The left has infiltrated into the IRS, broke the laws, and apparently has infiltrated the FBI, too. As said above the college's have been run by them. And, what have the Democrats done about it? Encourage more of it. The left doesn't have all the right answers. Not even close. And then all the judges and prosecutors....


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

At least half the professors in public colleges should be conservative?

I was a professor for a number of years. The number of conservative/moderate professors is far under reported. Some educational regions are simply more conservative than others, such as the South vs. New England. Plus there are many stripes of conservatives on campus, socially liberal-fiscally conservative, religious conservatives, libertarians, etc. 

I fear that the insinuation is that state schools need the "right type" of conservative. I am not in support of litmus tests. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

From what I've read and seen on C-SPAN conservative groups (students) are banded in so many colleges by left student politics. Yet, the left can have as many of their groups. Conservative professors keep their mouths shut to keep their jobs. Only writing what I've read and seen/heard. Not saying these are blanket statements. But sounds like far to much truth.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

Political stripe also tends to vary by department. 

STEM programs trend conservative. SJW programs trend liberal. 

SJW programs hog the microphone, so they are over represented in the media. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> At least half the professors in public colleges should be conservative?
> 
> I was a professor for a number of years. The number of conservative/moderate professors is far under reported. Some educational regions are simply more conservative than others, such as the South vs. New England. Plus there are many stripes of conservatives on campus, socially liberal-fiscally conservative, religious conservatives, libertarians, etc.
> 
> ...


+1. Over the years I periodically worked as an Associate professor or as an adjunct professor at five different colleges/universities. Only the associate professor gig provided me sufficient direct interaction with the staff to make this assessment, but is seems to me that both conservative and liberal personalities are to be found on the respective staff(s) of most colleges/universities, but the liberals are just a lot more expressive about it than are the conservatives. BTW, I am about as conservative (politically) as there is to be found out there! LOL.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Hope you guys are right.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Professor Jordan Peterson holds his own against media ultra liberals. A lovely moment in this tv interview where the muddle headed feminist splutters dumbfounded for several seconds unable to formulate an adequate response.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Shaver said:


> Professor Jordan Peterson holds his own against media ultra liberals. A lovely moment in this tv interview where the muddle headed feminist splutters dumbfounded for several seconds unable to formulate an adequate response.


Its amazing how quickly most of these feminist and liberal ideas fall apart when someone just stands up to it. If there has ever been an intellectual paper tiger, this has to be it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^and a hearty Amen(!) to that thought.
Indeed, you observation(s) could also apply to almost every extreme position assumed by the far left elements of our political spectrum.


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## Clintotron (Mar 24, 2015)

Shaver said:


> Professor Jordan Peterson holds his own against media ultra liberals. A lovely moment in this tv interview where the muddle headed feminist splutters dumbfounded for several seconds unable to formulate an adequate response.


One of my heroes!!!

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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

I became familiar with Peterson from the AVFM website and An Ear For Men on YouTube. I was dismayed to learn that AVFM has been listed by the SPLC as a hate site. Peterson, Elam and those like them are clearly making the PC police uncomfortable, which is simply peachy to me. The more they challenge the idiotic views that are prevalent in these times, the better.

Cheers, 

BSR


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I became familiar with Peterson from the AVFM website and An Ear For Men on YouTube. I was dismayed to learn that AVFM has been listed by the SPLC as a hate site. Peterson, Elam and those like them are clearly making the PC police uncomfortable, which is simply peachy to me. The more they challenge the idiotic views that are prevalent in these times, the better.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


The SPLC has an interesting take on what qualifies as hate.


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

SG_67 said:


> The SPLC has an interesting take on what qualifies as hate.


Its ridiculous. The fact that they have turned their Eye of Sauron on MGTOW and MRAs shows that those who support the SPLC believe men who voice their concerns about the rampant gynocentric misandry prevalent in our society need to be knocked back in line. It makes me fear for "peoplekind".

Cheers,

BSR


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Perhaps we expect a little too much of our elected officials. Cincinnatus was most likely an embellished myth. Statesmanship seems undervalued right now, though. 


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Say what(!)?
We attend their rallies, we believe their lies, we elect them, they lie, cheat and steal throughout their terms of service as they line their own pockets with the public troth, we grumble about it...and them we repeat the process. How the hell could we expect any less of our elected officials? :icon_scratch:


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Those bemoaning the paucity of statesmanship perhaps believe that there is only a single, narrow definition of the term.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

SG_67 said:


> Those bemoaning the paucity of statesmanship perhaps believe that there is only a single, narrow definition of the term.


It's not infinite in scope though. There has to be skill at managing public affairs. At a certain level, vision.

Sorely lacking in several heads of state these days.

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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

SG_67 said:


> Those bemoaning the paucity of statesmanship perhaps believe that there is only a single, narrow definition of the term.


:icon_scratch:Are the character traits honesty and integrity a part of said definition?


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

eagle2250 said:


> :icon_scratch:Are the character traits honesty and integrity a part of said definition?


Honesty and integrity are nice. Certainly worth trying at times.


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Bjorn said:


> It's not infinite in scope though. There has to be skill at managing public affairs. At a certain level, vision.
> 
> Sorely lacking in several heads of state these days.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


But only if that vision comports with your particular view of the world, right?


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## Mr. B. Scott Robinson (Jan 16, 2017)

One former benefit of monarchy was that it created a central focal point for societal loathing. Now we can only point to ourselves. 

Cheers, 

BSR


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