# Trad or new to the fray?



## CrescentCityConnection (Sep 24, 2007)

I have always been curious how many of us on this forum actually grew up trad and how many have just adopted this "style" (for lack of a better word) in recent years? 
For me I grew up wearing BB, J. Press came a little later in life but conservative, New England dress has always been the norm for me. 
It isn't about "how trad is xyz or is this trad" it's just simple dress. You buy for the long term and wear your clothes until they are unserviceable. You purchase quality items. I think somewhere along the way that "trad" has become a costume on this forum. 
Not trying to be mean or start a war, just being honest. Trad ( a term invented here) is effortless, timeless and should be easy.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

_If _your definition of trad (buy high quality and wear until no longer serviceable) is acceptable, then I've been trad since the 60s. If you spend what it takes to buy clothing that really lasts, and don't really love it until it has that worn-in look, then you don't want things that will be out of fashion before they're worn out. If the definition is flat-front trou, buttondown shirts, and sack jackets only, then I abandoned trad a long time ago, when I started wearing darted, double-vented jackets.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I was fortunate to have attended High School in Greenville, DE, deepinthehearta duPont Country, where I was rescued from bad 70's Brady Bunch style by a Preppy aesthetic which was prominent there at that time. 

However, I had no Idea what a sack jacket was until joining up with AAAC.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

It was the prevailing mode during my adolescence and early adulthood in early through mid '60's, and some version has always been my choice, though my tastes are more heterogeneous than some. But it became difficult to find in most areas during most of the '70's unless one made the pilgrimage to any of the small number of remaining traditional retailers such as Brooks, Chipp, Press, Paul Stuart etc.There was no Internet and catalogs offered much of my extra-local education into the world of fine traditional clothing.


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

I am not really fully trad, but whatever trad I wear, I learned here.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

The term "Trad" seems to have taken on a meaning of it's own. There are those who believe that "Trad" has very strict rules that one must follow to be considered a member of the tribe. We here at AAAC have seen links to Japanese web sites that have taken the term "Trad" to levels that seem to almost be a joke.

Under these criteria I am *not* "Trad."

However at last count I do own over twenty jackets or jacket/suit combinations that are 3/2 sack with plain front trousers. Many,....Many oxford cloth button down collar shirts from Brooks or J. Press. More cuffed khakis than I care to admit. The list goes on an on.

I enjoy traditional American men's clothing. Clothing of timeless design. It began about twenty five years ago during my first real job with General Electric which, as many already know, is a very conservative company. I was always attracted to the clothing men wore when I was a kid growing up mostly in the sixties. Looking back, these guys were who I wanted to be like.

Now at least I dress like them,... mostly.


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## CrescentCityConnection (Sep 24, 2007)

Im certainly not saying that I adhere to the "hard and fast" rules that seem to have taken a foothold here. My suits and blazers are for the most part sack designs...not that I sought them out but thats just what Brooks sold. I didnt know the proper term for it until I saw it here. I just knew that I didn't like, or should I say that I was not used to, alot of padding in a jacket nor did I like any waist suppression. Again this really wasn't something that I sought out....I knew what I was used to and Brooks provided it. Same with khakis, just always grew up wearing flat fronts...never noticed a difference until I was older. I wear what I am familiar with and that's it. 
I don't spend hours wondering if what I like or what I want to buy is "trad" or not. The clothing I grew up in and continue to wear to this very day just happen to fit into the recent "trad" canon. 
To elaborate a bit more, my closet (and I am OCD) is organized left to right with shirts, pants and blazers. I can easily walk in the closet, eyes closed, and pick one item from left to right and be ready for the day. Is it boring? My girlfriend thinks it is. It is just easy. Requires very little if any thought.


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## statboy (Sep 1, 2010)

I understand what you're saying, as I've felt that it seems unnatural to work so hard and shop so long for an effortless look, it is a bit contradictory. However, the current selection at any given store right now requires us to work harder. We have no choice if that's the aesthetic we want.

The modern version of effortless buying/dressing would be slopping into Kohl's and grabbing any one of 50 Ed Hardy knockoff t-shirts and bedazzled jeans and black rubber-soled square toes. That is effortless now days. Of course, the problem is that its poor taste. So, here we are....trolling websites 10 hrs a week looking for sweater vests and watch straps :icon_headagainstwal


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
While I can understand the point that you make, statboy, I think The Rambler's post (quoted below) offers a partial answer to your dilemma. The clothes are out there and they are not really hard to find, thanks to the pre-retail shopping intelligence provided by the many members of these fora. The sartorial accouterments of the Trad are easily available, as long as one goes to the right place (O'Connell's, J. Press, etc.), but alas, the realities of supply and demand force us to dearly pay for the priviledge of convenience. Otherwise, we must put forth the effort to search of the bargains, all too few, though they may be. However, is not the hunt perhaps not the most enjoyable part of the adventure? 



The Rambler said:


> _If _your definition of trad (buy high quality and wear until no longer serviceable) is acceptable, then I've been trad since the 60s. If you spend what it takes to buy clothing that really lasts, and don't really love it until it has that worn-in look, then you don't want things that will be out of fashion before they're worn out. If the definition is flat-front trou, buttondown shirts, and sack jackets only, then I abandoned trad a long time ago, when I started wearing darted, double-vented jackets.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

About the flat front vs. pleated pants, an interesting factiod.

I read probably twenty or so years ago, that the baby boomers had a huge influence on marketing as they matured, naturally, since they were the largest portion of the market.

Anyway, it was pointed out that pleated pants were coming into vogue as the boomers began reaching that point of life where men begin to put on extra weight.

It makes sense to me, and it seems like I've I seen other evidence of that, what do you think?


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## YoungClayB (Nov 16, 2009)

I am new to the fray. I grew up wearing Metallica t-shirts and black denim jeans.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

zzdocxx said:


> About the flat front vs. pleated pants, an interesting factiod.
> 
> I read probably twenty or so years ago, that the baby boomers had a huge influence on marketing as they matured, naturally, since they were the largest portion of the market.
> 
> ...


Nice theory that coincides with the facts but is non-the-less mistaken. The fashion industry typically seeks a massive shift in the prevailing "look" every 20 years, or so. We're seeing that now with the disappearance of pleated pants, sternum-high button stances, gorges on your shoulders and quarters gaping to half way up your tie. Flat front pants dominated the market from the late '50's through the early '80's.

While I enjoy traditional clothing, I wear pleated pants exclusively. I likes 'em and I needs 'em.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

I'm a little of both. I grew up Ralph Lauren trad, started wearing the more typical brands associated with trad while in college, soon after that I found this site. Though, I predate the wide use of the term trad here I believe. Currently, I generally wear trad but now with a greater British influence.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I was raised in the style, if for no other reason than to be accepted by the other kids (grew up on the upper east side of Manhattan). Yet, as I got older, I began to identify it as uniform, and rejected it. It's only when I exited my teenage years that I slowly started to see the qualities of the style. I don't _sleep_ in it these days, but it's the overall style I currently adhere to.


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## andcounting (Apr 7, 2009)

Late did I love trad. 

I hit a point where I wanted to dress like an adult, but was nauseated (sometimes literally) when I sought out to learn this skill of dress which was aborted just a generation ahead of me. I felt like I was being sold (read: force fed) something while learning nothing about class and style. I just couldn't go with that flow.

I hated the idea of being a billboard for brands. I hated crap, skinny this, uncomfortable and fleeting fashions. I wanted to dress with maturity but clothing seemed so childish. It was a Stafford outlet or a Banana Repuplic outlet - those were the choices - so it seemed.

Then this forum rescued me. I think I was looking up something on how a shirt should fit, then found Andy's horribly laid out site and somehow found my way here. I instantly assented to the philosophies (in all their looseness and firmness) and finally found a style of dress that seemed to fit me, and I'm not just talking body here. It makes sense, its not (quite as) vain, it lasts, its practical and simple. No, its not what I grew up wearing, but I just recently was sent a set of photos of my grandfather, a scientist, from the 50's and 60's and boy if he ain't trad. Not groomed in it, but in my roots nonetheless.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm English and as I got into adulthood I pretty much wore a fogey/ country type wardrobe, so tweeds, shetlands, moleskins, Viyella, brogues, Gloverall, argyle socks, Barbour etc were plentiful in my closets. I moved to the US about ten years ago and long story short, the storage company lost all my clothes and I had to start again. As I looked for these items I came across 'Trad'. I really like and adopted the 3/2 sack and madras - still can't get to grips with tassel loafers and some of the other stuff. I think like most here, I'm not exclusively Trad, I guess a Trad/ English Fogey/ Ivy kind of look! I'm in it for the long haul though as I just see it as a continuation of a type of look I've always had.


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## Bermuda (Aug 16, 2009)

Grew up wearing boat shoes, dressing up for church every Sunday in a small upstate NY city. Spent every summer in the Adirondacks (fishing, hiking, boating). In 8th grade went to the LL Bean flagship store in Freeport, and my parents always wore LL Bean. Summered in New Hampshire for 2 years. In high school I attended a private Catholic school in Sao Paulo, Brasil and was introduced to Ralph Lauren and all of the designer brands (rich kids). In college I would go into Salvation Army looking for vintage clothing. After college I became a teacher (my complete trad transformation). I am now in my 6th year of teaching and have an excellent wardrobe (mostly Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren). I am the best dressed male teacher in the school. My principal has some nice attire as well, however. (corduroy blazers with Elbow patches)


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

I'm old enough to recall when flat-front trousers were considered avant-garde. Recently, a young and well-traveled lady, my daughter's friend, seeing me in topsiders, khaki shorts and OCBD with rolled-up sleeves, remarked that I looked like "a European hipster" and meant it as a compliment. Plus ca change. By chance, I attended a preppy public high school in late '50s South, and, typical monkey-see adolescent, began wearing what we now call trad, an unpalatable word, continuing to do so off and on throughout my now long life, usually because it was, and is, the only tasteful clothing I could afford. Also, nothing personal, I own some polos, odd pants and so on of that label, but I'm also old enough to find the notion of Ralph Lauren as trad, traditional, classic or anything like it, ridiculous.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

If I am permitted to consider OCBD's, khaki trousers, navy, sack design blazers and jackets, penny loafers and deck shoes as Trad, I guess I've started dressing so in my early teen years and have continued ever since (I am presently working my way through my 60's!). Honestly, I didn't realize the style had a name, other than conservative, until I came upon the Trad fora of AAAC. Still not sure if my dress is legitimately Trad or not, but have no plans on changing anything at this point in my life. As The Rambler stated, I always buy quality, keep the items forever and literally wear the hell out of them, before finally giving such good and loyal servants the proverbial pitch...with a reasonable degree of reluctance and sadness experienced!


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## hcivic91 (Aug 29, 2006)

I didn't realize my style was characterized as preppy until I found AAAC. And now it's a lot of fun to look back at old pictures and see how preppy I was at every stage. I see myself in striped ties and button down collars from my first kindergarden pictures to college graduation and now. 

Living in the mid-west I think many do see my style of dress as a costume rather than timeless or stylish. When I look at them I find I'm making a similar evaluation of their fashion choices. I now work at a very conservative large bank and appreciate the choices many make - the ratio of black cap-toes is much greater here than anywhere else in town. 

Nonetheless, growing up preppy/trad is part of the appeal for me and something I hope to hand down to my children. After all, how can one go to prep school and not expect to emerge well......preppy.


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## Timeisaperception (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't know which side of the question I'd put myself, really. I didn't necessarily grow up in a 'trad' household; but my father taught to pack more than I knew I'd need, to -always- keep a spare dress shirt on hand to change into after work, and other little things. He worked hard labor as his career, but grew up as a military kid in the 50's and 60's, and knows the pains of breaking in a pair of Weejuns :wink2:

Of course, sophomore year of high school was when I started to grow 'grow up' and mature my image, mainly in part of a few legal troubles. Went to a barber shop and hacked my hair off, learned how to tie a tie, etc. ; from there it's just been a learning process. I'm kind of marking my trad milestones as I go along; my first Cross pen (trad men ALWAYS carry pens, right?), my first pair of Weejuns (old American made ones of course!), my ever growing collection of OCBD's and khakis. And while I'm not a strict adherent to what could be outlined as trad here (preferring pleats on my suit trousers for instance), I'd have to say that the forum, along with outside help, has guided me in making a sensible and timeless style.

But hey, I'm only 20, so I'm new to the fray!


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

New to the fray -- but my Grandparents dressed trad (one when it was the default mode of dress, and one because of his background).

My parents still have some of that input, and some of how I was raised -- buy quality, no logos, never be afraid to dress differently from everybody else -- led me to trad style when I became interested in dressing well.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

I am also new to the fray. My style in early high school was mostly American Eagle and AF like the rest of my friends, then late high school I got into J.Crew which lead to Brooks Brothers. Trad full blown by sophomore year of college.

Funnily enough I got my parents and older brother into BB and the like. Sort of like a reversal of generations.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Taken Aback said:


> I was raised in the style, if for no other reason than to be accepted by the other kids (grew up on the upper east side of Manhattan). Yet, as I got older, I began to identify it as uniform, and rejected it. It's only when I exited my teenage years that I slowly started to see the qualities of the style. I don't _sleep_ in it these days, but it's the overall style I currently adhere to.


That's pretty much my story. Grew up on the UES (Buckley '82...) wearing BB, LLB, etc., even went to school with the Press kid before they sold to the Japanese. I took it all for granted; I didn't know there were any other clothes out there.

Starting drifting away from the style during high school... After all the Dead shows (and a haircut), I spent the last 15+ years wearing Levi's and a white t-shirt. Now that I'm finishing law school, I'm getting back to the "adult" clothes of my youth. Still have some treasures from the old days, but have been sorely disappointed in the disappearance of so many of the the "trad" staples.

EDIT: Forgot to note: Someone else mentioned madras - that's been my favorite "re-discovery" so far. I forgot how much I loved madras... great memories of summers on the South Fork.


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## Beauregard (Mar 12, 2009)

I grew up in it, it was the norm of the schools I went to. I however tried rebelling as a child and a teenager but it did not really last long since I wore what parents got me. 

I see the resurgence of it to a degree in college or a 180 lack of, it is rather interesting. 

I dress "trad" and a lot of hunting clothes in the mix as I am an avid hunter. I do not enjoy labeling myself since I just wear what I enjoy. I do find a lot of people my age see a polo mannequin and buy everything on it and look rather ridiculous and I laugh quietly.


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## Hayek (Jun 20, 2006)

A bit of both.

My dad was a very trad dresser. I'm sure that I would have been able to recognize the BB and J Press catalogs lying around the house when I was quite young. He also had some trad/"fogey" interests: fly fishing, jazz, music, etc. Also shopped at Orivs, LLB, etc.

He died when I was finishing elementary school, but I had a quasi-preppy look through middle/high school. I mostly got my clothes from the Gap and occasionally Polo or J Crew if I had money.

In college I had an internship lined up that required a business casual wardrobe. I re-discovered BB and J Press and went on their sites, still unaware that they represented anything other than normal "adult" clothes. I only had a vague idea of what preppy was, and just assumed that OCBDs, loafers, repp ties, etc. simply normal clothes that everyone of a certain age wore.

I stumbled across the trad forum while doing some research on what to buy for my internship and never looked back. AA along with the blogs (The Trad, especially) helped me put everything into context. Looking at old photos of my father I'm shocked by how closely he stuck to the trad look -- polos, whale belts, khakis, topsiders, repp ties, etc. I still have 20-30 BB/Press ties of his from the 80's/early 90's, nearly all of them striped with a few patterns/critters. Only a couple paisleys and other designs. Also a great Press overcoat (sleeves are a little short, though) and a waxed cotton LLB jacket which luckily fits me very well.

So even though this style feels very familiar to me, and I likely would not have embraced it with such gusto of not for my father, I really have the board and blogs to thank for getting me up to speed.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I was fortunate to have attended High School in Greenville, DE, deepinthehearta duPont Country, where I was rescued from bad 70's Brady Bunch style by a Preppy aesthetic which was prominent there at that time.
> 
> However, I had no Idea what a sack jacket was until joining up with AAAC.


Interesting. I don't know what years you lived there, but do you remember Denham's, Brent & Co, and the Wilmington Country Store? Three terrific trad/preppy stores all within a quarter mile of each other.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Jazz is fogey?

Humph! (As I return to enjoying my Christmas album, *Jazz to the World.* Much recommended for those seeking a jazz holiday album.)


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Sartre said:


> Interesting. I don't know what years you lived there, but do you remember Denham's, Brent & Co, and the Wilmington Country Store? Three terrific trad/preppy stores all within a quarter mile of each other.


The Wilmington Country Store yes, the others no. It was hard to miss WCS since we would skip over to Janssen's for lunch!!

I was class of '80

Did most of our shopping at Wanamakers then and my Mother worked for Hamburger Mullins.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

sbdivemaster said:


> That's pretty much my story. Grew up on the UES (Buckley '82...) wearing BB, LLB, etc., even went to school with the Press kid before they sold to the Japanese. I took it all for granted; I didn't know there were any other clothes out there.


Small world...or city block, as it happens.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Started picking out my own clothes in about 1958, at age eight, with Mom approval and old line salesman's advice, at the "good" local men's store. Of course it was trad, but back then we just called them "clothes". In high school in the mid sixties, we were all rather clothes conscious, in a southern fraternity manner, but we didn't wear khakis: those were work clothes


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

Grew up in the Northeast in the 50's and 60's and pretty much always wore khakis, OCBDs, madras, corduroys and shetland sweaters. I didn't know there was any other way to dress back then. I wore "wheat jeans" in addition to khakis in my early college years but I never wore blue jeans until 1968 when I was 21 years old. I did go through a bit of a hippie phase around then. I don't think I have ever been without a pair of penny loafers. I guess I've just never changed the way I've dressed. OK, I will admit that I do still wear blue jeans regularly on the weekends probably more often than most Trads here on the forum.


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## Billax (Sep 26, 2011)

I first started noticing clothes as a HS Senior in 1958, when two of my college-attending cousins came home for family Thanksgiving. While one cousin went to Northwestern and the other to Cornell, they showed up for Thanksgiving in near-identical outfits: OCBD, Shetland sweaters (one a crew & the other a V neck), khakis, Wigwam socks and Bass Weejuns. I deduced a uniform for college attire. Since I was in the middle of college applications myself, I asked my folks for Christmas presents of "clothing the cousins wore."

Once in college, I had the great good fortune to work in a Men's clothing store that catered to the "Natural Shoulder" crowd. I learned more about men's clothing from the proprietor of that store than I have learned since. I considered him a great mentor. He'd open up OCBDs from Sero, Gant, and Troy Guild and take me through the – often minute – differences among them. Stuck with me. It was his contention that "Natural" meant more than shoulders. Natural shoulders, natural fibers, natural (vegetal and insect) dyes all went together, according to my boss. I lapped up every distinction he threw at me. To this day, he remains the best teacher I've ever encountered.

Just a few days ago, my youngest son was accepted (via Early Action) to Yale. His Christmas presents will reprise my request of more than 50 years ago. I hope it takes.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

My clothing education was the result of time and consanguinity. I grew up in the '50's and '60's before men's clothing became bizarre as a consequence of the pop culture rebellion of the late '60's and '70's. My older brother (by 8 years) set a wonderful example of simple, understated taste that I found easy to follow. 
I will knowingly buy an inexpensive garment (I am lucky to have plenty of expensive ones), if it looks good. I am not a label fanatic, although I respect them, because I have many expamples of tasteful clothes that look good but would be considered 'declasse' by many Trad Forum posters. My dirty shame!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I like things that happen to fall into Trad, but also a lot that fall more into the Fashion Forum. I like darted suits and regular collars with double cuffs too much to give them up entirely.

As for provenance, I couldn't be any more removed from it. Middle class, public school educated, non-Ivy college. It's a style I liked and adopted and that's it.


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## Yuca (Feb 19, 2011)

A nice thread. This post in particular is outstanding:



Billax said:


> I first started noticing clothes as a HS Senior in 1958, when two of my college-attending cousins came home for family Thanksgiving. While one cousin went to Northwestern and the other to Cornell, they showed up for Thanksgiving in near-identical outfits: OCBD, Shetland sweaters (one a crew & the other a V neck), khakis, Wigwam socks and Bass Weejuns. I deduced a uniform for college attire. Since I was in the middle of college applications myself, I asked my folks for Christmas presents of "clothing the cousins wore."
> 
> Once in college, I had the great good fortune to work in a Men's clothing store that catered to the "Natural Shoulder" crowd. I learned more about men's clothing from the proprietor of that store than I have learned since. I considered him a great mentor. He'd open up OCBDs from Sero, Gant, and Troy Guild and take me through the - often minute - differences among them. Stuck with me. It was his contention that "Natural" meant more than shoulders. Natural shoulders, natural fibers, natural (vegetal and insect) dyes all went together, according to my boss. I lapped up every distinction he threw at me. To this day, he remains the best teacher I've ever encountered.
> 
> Just a few days ago, my youngest son was accepted (via Early Action) to Yale. His Christmas presents will reprise my request of more than 50 years ago. I hope it takes.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

A nice look back indeed.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

I was a late 60s hippie. Torn jeans, with rawhide sewing on the holes. Beard and hair down to my knees. One day was smoking a joint, and doing some great acid at Woodstock 1. I saw a man is a brooks brothers sack suit. It was then I became trad!
LOL

Jimmy


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

HA!!

Everyone was at Woodstock and no one voted for Nixon.

Ever notice that??


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Ha!!..


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## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

STAY AWAY FROM THE TWEED ACID!!! STAY AWAY FROM THE TWEED ACID!!!



DukeGrad said:


> Gentlemen
> 
> I was a late 60s hippie. Torn jeans, with rawhide sewing on the holes. Beard and hair down to my knees. One day was smoking a joint, and doing some great acid at Woodstock 1. I saw a man is a brooks brothers sack suit. It was then I became trad!
> LOL
> ...


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I can see the next Trad Forum thread already: "Tweed acidity percentage???"


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

I grew up with it. Flat-front pants, OCBD's, penny loafers or black oxfords, 3/2 jackets, thinnish blackish neckties. My mother and grandmother supplied me with these clothes, which were about all that was available back then. Pink jeans at the coast. I would jazz up the look with white jeans, pointy side-ties, and cut-off sleeves with the shirttails out. The old folks would get after me because I would "look like a hoodlum," and the cycle would begin again. Merry Christmas.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

DukeGrad said:


> Gentlemen
> 
> I was a late 60s hippie. Torn jeans, with rawhide sewing on the holes. Beard and hair down to my knees. One day was smoking a joint, and doing some great acid at Woodstock 1. I saw a man is a brooks brothers sack suit. It was then I became trad!
> LOL
> ...


Why not the best of both worlds:

Of course, you can't wear a nice dress shirt without a jacket and tie:

:biggrin:


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