# Current quality of Brooks Bros MTM suits



## DCR (Apr 6, 2015)

Hello all,

I am considering taking advantage of the 20% discount that is currently being applied to the MTM program and am soliciting opinions of those of you who have purchased one recently. I understand they are all made at the Southwick facility in Haverhill, MA and I'm curious how they're doing.

My experience with OTR includes mainline Hickey Freeman and Brooks Own Make so I am used to quality canvassed garments. Any insight would be appreciated.

To head off the inevitable, I can't wear OTR anymore as I have a 44 chest and 33 waist.


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

I think it depends on the particular line. 
Whether you go with something from the 1818 line or Golden Fleece. 

The overall quality of the garment, assuming that you're referring to construction details, remains the same. Fabric and styling options of course will be to your choosing.


----------



## CLTesquire (Jul 23, 2010)

My impression is that you can possibly come out cheaper going with a MTM Southwick from an independent men's shop. For instance, the last time I check a MTM from Brooks using VBC fabric was in the $1500 neighborhood at full retail. When my local shop has a trunk show you can get that suit for around $1k to $1100. Just a thought. The quality of the garment will be the same.


----------



## DCR (Apr 6, 2015)

CLTesquire said:


> My impression is that you can possibly come out cheaper going with a MTM Southwick from an independent men's shop. For instance, the last time I check a MTM from Brooks using VBC fabric was in the $1500 neighborhood at full retail. When my local shop has a trunk show you can get that suit for around $1k to $1100. Just a thought. The quality of the garment will be the same.


Yes I considered that. I can have MTM done via another shop in Boston using Hickey Freeman, Samuelsohn or Southwick (the cheapest option). This would be a 3 piece and with the Brooks 20% off it would run about $1850 using a 120s (can't remember the mill)

Anyone with any recent experience as to quality of the construction and fit?


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

The construction of the Brooks Brother has really fallen or at best flat lined these past years. First and foremost, they no longer use Martin Greenfield for its Golden Fleece suits for both the off-the-rack and made-to-measure suits, so the handwork has fallen. They have switched exclusively to Southwick for all suits. 

As for the 1818 line, they were never really that special. They had some fusing in the chest and lapel construction. But they were really good workhorse suits. I have a closet of them in both the made-to-measure and off-the-rack programs, and I love wearing them. And the current Golden Fleece construction isn't that much better in my opinion. It is a full canvas, but it doesn't seem that much better. 

The one redeeming quality about the Brooks Brothers' made-to-measure program was the vast array of options one could choose from. This was in addition to style features like lapel and pocket options to the nature of the fit. If you have a very experienced sales associate and/or tailor, you could describe the fit you wanted and actually get it. This was also due to the nature of the fact Brooks Brothers had four pattern styles to pick from. Lapel width and style could be modulated based upon the stock fit chosen. For example, when I wanted a larger lapel I chose the Madison Fit and had many adjustments to get the fit of a Fitzgerald fit. 

Then of course, you could fix a lot of fit issues too. Low shoulders, darts under the lapels, sleeve rotations, button stances, higher armholes (my favorite), double darts on the trousers, and waist suppression are just the few things the program could take into account to. 

After having a suit made for me by Ralph Lauren and Brooks Brothers, the construction and quality of a Ralph Lauren is far superior to a Brooks Brothers suit (at enormous price differential), but the list of options on a Brooks Brothers far exceed the Ralph Lauren program. And based upon the Samuelsohn suit I bought from Saks' In-house collection, the construction there is far better than a 1818 or equal the Golden Fleece construction too. I haven't tried the new Hickey Freeman stuff yet, so I can't comment. 

At Brooks, My recommendation is to first start with the lapel style and width model that you want. This is based upon on the fit you start off with, i.e. Madison, Regent, Fitzgerald (doesn't come with peak lapels), or Milano fit. Then pick the size in jacket that fits your shoulders THE best. Don't mess with the point to point. Everything else can be customized. Also, make sure that the suit being used for the measurements is made in America because the American and Italian patterns differ, and from a very recent or current season. Also remember that you can mix and match trouser fit. Like my example above, I had them make me a new Madison cut jacket but chose my standard Fitzgerald trouser pattern. Let the tailor and sales person know exactly what you're looking for in a suit. Be as exacting as possible.


----------



## DCR (Apr 6, 2015)

Wonderful information. Thank you sir.


----------



## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

^^Was the Ralph Lauren MTM Blue, Black or Purple Label, out of curiosity?


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

I used both Ralph Lauren's Black Label (now Purple Label) and Blue Label. 

They have a lot of options you can pick from, but I didn't think it was all that numerous.


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ I must admit I haven't kept pace with Ralph's changes over the past couple of years. So are you saying that what was Black Label before is now the new Purple Label? 

Is the price commensurate with the former PL? If so, I would think that MTM would be around $5!


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

Ralph Lauren merged the Black Label line into the Purple Label. The pricing has increased roughly about $300-$500 depending on the suit. I have only used the now defunct Black Label program. As of 2015, Pricing during the trunk show is in the $2,000's. I think the pricing is close to the Golden Fleece pricing when comparing Brooks's similar fabrics to Ralph Lauren's. I also suspect there is a large Ralph Lauren premium in there too. 

The former Purple Label has become the Purple Label Hand Crafted and remains with the astronomical pricing.


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ is this across the spectrum of the range or only for tailored clothing?


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

The entire Black Label has merged with Purple Label. Black Label no longer exists. There is a tiered Purple Label system now.


----------



## tomchicago (Jan 24, 2009)

I caution against ANY established brand "MTM". You are not getting a custom suit, but rather, merely a tweaked prefab pattern. Instead, find a local tailor who will make you a true custom suit using a custom cut pattern for you from the ground up. 

I had lousy results with Zegna MTM, went custom, and have never looked back.


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

^ but that's essentially what MTM is. 

I actually commissioned an MTM suit from Paul Stuart and was able to select quite a number of the design elements. 

True, the basic suit was a 38 short from the Phineas Cole line, but it's a good fit for me and requires very little adjustment.


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

To say all made-to-measure is gamble is tough sell; I think it depends on made-to-measure process. I am sorry to hear about your experience with Zegna; I haven't tried them. I would actually say that Brooks Brothers makes a very good pattern for the individual; they actually take your body measurements and apply them onto a stock pattern. Whereas, other companies make you try on a jacket that fits well [or somewhat well] and merely just mark down things such as "point to point: +.05" or "jacket waist: -1", Brooks Brothers has a large sheet where the tailor/sales associate can note actual body measurements. I think made-to-measure when there isn't a stock suit to try on is really a terrible choice. So many of these on-line manufacturers are a gamble because you do not know how they will put things that are just as important as the body measurements. Things like shoulder padding, button placement, lapel gorge, armhole height, and pocket placement are extremely important to making a suit look good.

One of the analysts in my office got me to try IndoChino with him in Beverly Hills, and I thought the first fit was terrible. Jacket was too short; the button stance was too high. Sleeves were too big; armholes were too low. However, as terrible as the jacket was, the pants fit very well. Nevertheless, after a remake with very careful and detailed instructions to the pretty sales girl, I was able to get a suit that works very well from the suit remake. If I was just starting my professional career, I think IndoChino could be a very good starter suit. [I am expecting a torrent of hate coming my way] But this only resulted with me seeing what one of suits would look like and being very thorough with the alterations that I felt were needed.


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

SG-67, can you elaborate on the Paul Stuart made-to-measure process? Have you ever tried the Custom program?

I would love to one day get a Paul Stuart made-to-measure suit, but I don't make it to New York often enough to make a trunk show. They unfortunately do not have store on the West Coast. When Paul Stuart made a 37R long [four years] ago, I bought a basic navy suit in their slightly more fitted cut [not Phones Cole], and it fit very well. It's one of my favorite suits.


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

I've never tried the custom program as I'm not that difficult to fit within their standard offerings. I realize some people really like the idea of a completely custom made garment, but PS's made to measure program offers enough options that I'm happy. 

The process is quite nice actually. The SA I work with contacts me prior to the event and I come in and get fitted. This way I get my pic of fabrics before they run out. 

He and I already know that I'm a 38S in the Phineas Cole line, so I try on a Phineas jacket just to make sure. Then it's a matter of picking the fabric, details like single or double breasted (in my case I opted for DB), buttons, lining, pocket details and other jacket details. 

The tailor takes measurements for length, across the shoulders and my arms. These are used to tweak the standard pattern. And that was it. 

Four weeks later, the garment came in, I was fitted for it and it fit like a glove. No adjustments were needed. The sleeve buttons were applied and that was that. 

So as far as Paul Stuart is concerned, there's enough customization and personalization within the made to measure program that I haven't even considered their custom program.


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

SG_67, thanks for posting that. Can you tell me about the customizations they offer for the made-to-measure program? Can you narrow the lapels; raise or lower the button stance? Things like that.


----------



## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

ExpertiseInNone said:


> SG_67, thanks for posting that. Can you tell me about the customizations they offer for the made-to-measure program? Can you narrow the lapels; raise or lower the button stance? Things like that.


I honestly don't know as I didn't inquire. I would think, though, that for something like that you'd have to go custom.

The customizations available with MTM are the fabric, cut/style of the suit, vents, lapels (peak vs notch), lining, buttons, pockets and a few other details.

Like I said, Phineas Cole fits me quite well and I'm happy with the line so I found that MTM offered plenty for me. During the made to measure event, the cost is really no different than off the peg.


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

Thank you very much. I'll have to try to be in a Paul Stuart city one of these days during a trunk show.


----------

