# Black or brown shoes with navy or gray



## wvuguy (May 29, 2006)

DocHolliday's earlier post about a preference for brown (or at least something other than black) shoes with navy or gray to an interview got me to thinking. As a sartorial child at age 49, I freely admit I've been wearing black shoes with those two colors pretty much my whole life (though I must admit to having worn my chili Maxfields with lighter gray slacks recently).

So, is black traditionally considered "wrong".....or is brown simply more "right".....with those two colors ?? If so, I'd like to know a little more about that line of logic.


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## patbrady2005 (Oct 4, 2005)

Black is always proper with both colors. You can't go wrong. 99.9% of the world agrees on this.

However -brown is seen as more sophisticated than black by those "in the know". Brown shoes tend to have more "character" than black. It's not as safe and less conservative.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Black is generally considered more "correct" for business, and thus with blue and gray, than brown. It is certainly the more conservative choice. However, a goodly percentage of men who enjoy clothes prefer brown to black for the former's warmth, the way it takes well to antiquing, and the variety of shades and tones available. Neither is wrong.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

"However, a goodly percentage of men who enjoy clothes prefer brown to black"

What he said.


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## alaric (May 23, 2005)

Brown (mahogany, burgundy, merlot, etc.) have always been my favorites with navy and grey, esp. dark greys.

alaric


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Also, don't listen to the rubbish that you can't wear black shoes with a navy suit. That's pure bunk from the world of women's fashion. Black, as the others have said, is perfectly appropriate with both navy and gray.


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## anglophile (Jul 7, 2006)

My own personal rules for shoes with a blue/grey suit:

During the week wear either brown or black during the daytime. Black is a bit more formal, but to me brown shoes give an air of style and confidence in your appearance. I never like to wear brown shoes with a suit in the evening. They seem a bit too casual for my taste.

On the weekend, all bets are off. Wear what you like.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

I think brown with both colors is more than fine, it is what looks best. I personally like a carmel brown with light gray suits, merlot or darker brown with dark gray suits and I like chestnut with navy suits.


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## WPNX (Jun 27, 2006)

To paraphrase a quote I read on here that I can't quite find; black is always acceptable, but I can't think of a situation where the right shade of brown wouldn't look better.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

For an interview wear black. Its just what you do. Other than that I always prefer a shade of brown with either gray or navy. Experiment a little and try different shades and you'll see for youself the range you can do.


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## wvuguy (May 29, 2006)

Trenditional said:


> I think brown with both colors is more than fine, it is what looks best. I personally like a carmel brown with light gray suits, merlot or darker brown with dark gray suits and I like chestnut with navy suits.


Hmmm, Chestnut with navy sounds *very* interesting to me.....perhaps under slightly less formal circumstances perhaps ????


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

wvuguy said:


> Hmmm, Chestnut with navy sounds *very* interesting to me.....perhaps under slightly less formal circumstances perhaps ????


Ginger suede is still more interesting, under less formal circumstances of course.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Until recently I always wore only black or burgundy with gray or navy, now I prefer brown almost all of the time.


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

Black shoes/suit are always a good troll color.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Just to clarify, my earlier post was that I _wouldn't_ wear brown shoes to an interview, but prefer them with navy and gray suits in general.

With that out of the way, I'll say that black shoes have their place. I don't care for black bluchers, but I like the formality of black captoes for serious occasions. I also like black shoes with certain shades of brown suits. And I quite like black monks (with silver buckles), often preferring them to brown ones.


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## Drag0n (Aug 24, 2006)

I agree with many of the views posted above.

If I had an interview, I would always wear black shoes. Otherwise, I think brown shoes are more stylish.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

WPNX said:


> To paraphrase a quote I read on here that I can't quite find; black is always acceptable, but I can't think of a situation where the right shade of brown wouldn't look better.


Absolutely indubitably true and very well said.

Black may be more formal but who wants to look formal (formal is spelled b-o-o-r-i-n-g)

I do have a pair of black whole cuts with medallion and a pair of Edward Green sourced black MacKay captoes, but they get little wear compared to my dark brown, chestnut, merlot, burgundy, cordovan, dark oak, parisian calf, chili, cognac, edwardian, burnt pine, brandy, and tan shoes.

Perry


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2006)

wvuguy said:


> DocHolliday's earlier post about a preference for brown (or at least something other than black) shoes with navy or gray to an interview got me to thinking. As a sartorial child at age 49, I freely admit I've been wearing black shoes with those two colors pretty much my whole life (though I must admit to having worn my chili Maxfields with lighter gray slacks recently).
> 
> So, is black traditionally considered "wrong".....or is brown simply more "right".....with those two colors ?? If so, I'd like to know a little more about that line of logic.


black and brown are both correct and all right to wear with those conservative suit colors.
the thing is, black will make the suit "conservative" since it is neutral and understating, it doesnt bring attention or draw eyes to the black shoes, more to the person. generally.

brown on the other hand, flips the richness switch on the navy and grey. just bring a burnished brown leather and lay it next to the navy or grey. it complements and enriches both colors. like how peanut butter and jelly melds together.
but brown will draw attention or the eyes to the attire, people will pay attention to what you are wearing more and then this will make you look in their eyes dandy or chic.
so in business, you want your clients paying attention to you. so wear black or burgundy. or a dark brown
but when at a party, wear a beautiful brown or chestnut. or burgundy


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

One caveat: 

If you do wear black shoes with a navy suit, make sure that they are polished to a high gloss - this helps to maintain a sifficient level of contrast between the shoes and dark navy pants. 

Nothing looks worse than dull black shoes with a dark navy suit. You know they aren't the same color but it still looks a bit off. For this reason, I generally wear cordovan if I'm wearing black shoes with navy pants.


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

My rotation of black shoes (limited, 3 pairs only) gets used only in the evening. I completely switched to tan/brown/cordovan rotation for day wear, and my shoe collection consists mainly of those colors, and will expand in that direction. Out of 5 shoes on my radar only one is black, and definitely not next on the list. I even went with tan shoes for a job interview.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

DocHolliday said:


> Just to clarify, my earlier post was that I _wouldn't_ wear brown shoes to an interview, but prefer them with navy and gray suits in general.
> 
> With that out of the way, I'll say that black shoes have their place. I don't care for black bluchers, but I like the formality of black captoes for serious occasions. I also like black shoes with certain shades of brown suits. And I quite like black monks (with silver buckles), often preferring them to brown ones.


Agree with you all the way, Doc (except that I'm rather indifferent to monks). I have four pairs of black bluchers, and now that my tastes have become more refined, I almost have to deliberately contrive ways to get some use out of them. Black rubbed-soled bluchers now strike me as particularly useless shoes. Two of my black bluchers are rubber-soled (A-E Stockbridge and Ferragamo Stream), and I hardly ever find myself wearing them.


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

*Burgundy Is Great with Navy*

This has been alluded to above, but has been noted in greater detail in earlier threads, and is something with which I totally agree--burgundy (merlot, wine, cordovan, oxblood) is just smashing with navy. I'm not so sure about Chili. Although Manton cautions us to consider only black and brown, perhaps we can consider burgundy as a variant of brown here. In any case, it works very well with both navy and gray suits. In addition, burgundy would be my shoe color of choice for navy blazer/gray trousers.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Roger said:


> Although Manton cautions us to consider only black and brown


I have an aversion to burgundy calf, but not burgundy cordovan. Hardy Amies had the same aversion.


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

*Let us now consider upkeep . . . .*

Cantabrigian noted that, if one is to wear black shoes with a navy suit, that they should be highly polished. I would go further to say that one's shoes (albeit not suede, obviously) should always be cleaned and shined to whatever level of shine that the original leather was meant to take (pebble grain will never take the shine of boned calf, for example, but both should be shined).

For the more general question of brown shoes with navy or grey suit, I posted a recent picture of my newest suit on the Trad Forum's "what I wore today" thread - the shoes are highly polished dark brown (with a cordovan tinge to them).



Cantabrigian said:


> One caveat:
> 
> If you do wear black shoes with a navy suit, make sure that they are polished to a high gloss - this helps to maintain a sifficient level of contrast between the shoes and dark navy pants.
> 
> Nothing looks worse than dull black shoes with a dark navy suit. You know they aren't the same color but it still looks a bit off. For this reason, I generally wear cordovan if I'm wearing black shoes with navy pants.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Black would seem more appropriate for business.


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## dragon (Jan 28, 2006)

I agree , black just seems to match everything and anything.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

my $0.02: although there is absolutely nothing wrong with black, brown seems to give grey or navy suits more "life" and shows a lot how stylish the wearer is.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

dragon said:


> I agree , black just seems to match everything and anything.


Black is a simple color so everything matches.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

Isn't black actually no color at all? And if it isn't a color than it certainly shouldn't clash with anything. :icon_smile: 

Unfortunately it is so boorrrrring. And all I can think of when I hear black shoes is Kenneth Cole flat toed platapus feet like shoes.

Perry


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

pkincy said:


> Isn't black actually no color at all? And if it isn't a color than it certainly shouldn't clash with anything. :icon_smile:
> 
> Unfortunately it is so boorrrrring. And all I can think of when I hear black shoes is Kenneth Cole flat toed platapus feet like shoes.
> 
> Perry


Why is it that a basic black outfit can look so boring (read bad, should you prefer) and yet, look so good on a woman? There seems nothing sexier than the little black dress!


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

dopey said:


> an emerging orthodoxy among the followers of the stylish elite. People seem to be taking good advice about the sophistication of brown shoes in a variety of circumstances and interpreting that to mean black shoes are not or are less stylish. That is wrong.


I concur.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Like OP, I've been wearing black and cordovan shoes with my suits. For a couple of years, my senses have been urging me to try browns but my head keeps saying, "No!" Well, Forumites, I'm pursuaded to give this brown business a go. 

If I were to try one pair of brown shoes, what should it be? Is there a color (light, tan, dark, what?) that gives one the best feel for the multi-shaded potential of brown so lauded by Signor Antongiavanni? Is there a style that exhibits it best? Do full brogues, with all of their seams and creases do so as polish can accumulate there to emphasize differences in shading? As Manton suggests, is just the opposite true and a monk strap, with its long, uninterrupted expanse of leather better to show off brown? Who makes a good brown shoe that doesn't cost a complete fortune (something in the CT-AE-Alden price range is fine)?

Where, in short, does one start?


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## wvuguy (May 29, 2006)

Shoe style itself not withstanding......how interchangeable would my fellow forumites consider chestnut (and even merlot) with the more trad darker browns ??? Over the last 72 hours, I've become fascinated with the idea of chestnut.....something I don't have now.....and am trying to decide what role it might play for me.

BTW, would anyone consider *chili* a substitute for chestnut (or vice versa) ???


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> Like OP, I've been wearing black and cordovan shoes with my suits. For a couple of years, my senses have been urging me to try browns but my head keeps saying, "No!" Well, Forumites, I'm pursuaded to give this brown business a go.
> 
> If I were to try one pair of brown shoes, what should it be? Is there a color (light, tan, dark, what?) that gives one the best feel for the multi-shaded potential of brown so lauded by Signor Antongiavanni? Is there a style that exhibits it best? Do full brogues, with all of their seams and creases do so as polish can accumulate there to emphasize differences in shading? As Manton suggests, is just the opposite true and a monk strap, with its long, uninterrupted expanse of leather better to show off brown? Who makes a good brown shoe that doesn't cost a complete fortune (something in the CT-AE-Alden price range is fine)?
> 
> Where, in short, does one start?


If you're just now dabbling in brown, you might start with a darker shade. They're more versatile than very light browns/tans, and you might feel more comfortable in them. Less of a shock to the system, as it were.

As for styling, I say find a pair you love and go with that. Personally, I'd probably go with a brogued captoe, something similar to the Asquith. And if you don't wear monks frequently, I might suggest avoiding those as a first pair, simply because the buckle will only make you feel more conspicuous.

Good luck, and let us know what you choose!


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

Doc,

In for a penny, in for a pound is actually fine with me on this one, so I don't mind standing out. That seems to be the point of the brown shoe, if I correctly catch the gist of the thread. The shoes at this link (sorry, not sure how to capture the image into the post) look like a tempting bargain:

https://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product_details.asp?si_id=40209

They are, of course, on the light side. I would like to know a little more about your thoughts on their versitility. What limitations do you see? Naturally, I wouldn't use them for weddings, more serious court appearances, etc., but how about wearing them to the office with blues and grays? Are these shoes seasonally limited? If so, when and how strictly? By the way, I'm a solo practitioner, so I can wear whatever I bloody well please. No boss to placate.:icon_smile:


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

You'll get more use from dark brown. Generally, chestnut is wearable year-round but it's more casual. Tan is spring and summer wear.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

A Questionable Gentleman said:


> Doc,
> 
> In for a penny, in for a pound is actually fine with me on this one, so I don't mind standing out. That seems to be the point of the brown shoe, if I correctly catch the gist of the thread. The shoes at this link (sorry, not sure how to capture the image into the post) look like a tempting bargain:
> 
> ...


I like the look of them! That styling would make an excellent choice, I think. I'd certainly wear them to the office. But if you're going Loake, I'd strongly suggest you go with the 1880 line, the company's best, or maybe the 125th line. Even those are below AE in terms of quality, but might make for a good trial pair. Loakes' other stuff ... Well, let's say I think you can do better for the price, with a bit of bargain hunting. Part of the appeal of brown shoes is the beauty of the leather, of course, and getting poor-quality leather that won't build a nice patina could undermine the whole test run.

In terms of seasonal limitations, I save my lightest tans for summer wear. But a mid- to dark brown can certainly be worn year 'round.


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## lakewolf (Aug 6, 2006)

dopey said:


> I have recently discovered that I think a royal blue suit looks particularly elegant with black shoes.
> 
> Some other time, I will write a screed against what I see as an emerging orthodoxy among the followers of the stylish elite. People seem to be taking good advice about the sophistication of brown shoes in a variety of circumstances and interpreting that to mean black shoes are not or are less stylish. That is wrong. Black and brown are different and using each yields a different result. The more stylish choice is the one that better realizes your intent.


That is right !!

I actually think that some stylish men, adhere to some "style rules" in a manichaeist way... They see the black suit or the black shoes as sartorial sins... and the no-black/brown as a virtue, but is simply not that, is a matter of taste and elegance... It is the way you wear them, how you accessorise

I have seen men look bad in gray/blue suit/brown shoes and good in black suit/black shoes and vice versa...


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

WPNX said:


> To paraphrase a quote I read on here that I can't quite find; black is always acceptable, but I can't think of a situation where the right shade of brown wouldn't look better.


Ditto. And its the effort/creativity put forth in finding the "right" shade (and shape) of brown that begins to train the eye to understand why browns have imminently more character and warmth than plain old black. But be careful -- its a highly addictive habit.


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## dprof (Jul 15, 2006)

Speaking if browns. I have some AE's in chili and really like that color. I agree 100% with the cordovan /burgundy with navy and charcoal!
I have a pair of old Alden captoes that are almost orange.
These have proven to be fun shoes to pair with lighter suits. It might be one of those colors that on the shelf you think you couldn.'t use, but in the middle tones it works nice.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

pkincy said:


> Isn't black actually no color at all? And if it isn't a color than it certainly shouldn't clash with anything. :icon_smile:
> 
> Unfortunately it is so boorrrrring. And all I can think of when I hear black shoes is Kenneth Cole flat toed platapus feet like shoes.
> 
> Perry


Black is a color and It does clash with everything.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

I am rather partial to black shoes with dark suits. I have more than a few pair and not a "flat toed platapus feet like shoe" among them. I am always surprised by the number of people on this Forum who suggest one should wear hosiery the colour of one's trousers to create a longer, more seamless line and who also espouse wearing chestnut shoes with navy and/or charcoal suits..which would immediately attract the eye, redirect attention toward one's feet, and foreshorten the wearer's appearance. As they say, different strokes...

That is not to say I do not like brown shoes. In fact, I do have a pair or two of brown shoes in my closet.


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

Howard said:


> Black is a color and It does clash with everything.


technically speaking, black is the absence of color and light.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

acidicboy said:


> technically speaking, black is the absence of color and light.


Oh Ok I see,Black absorbs light.So if you wore a dark color you'd perspire.


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## Xyst (Jan 17, 2010)

acidicboy said:


> technically speaking, black is the absence of color and light.


If I remember my physics lectures correctly :idea:, black is actually the absorption of all colors (depending on the absoluteness of the particular black in question), but the reflection of little to no color (obviously no light reflection would essentially require the presence of a singularity, and try as I might I haven't found a cobbler to pull that one off yet!). Conversely, true white is actually the absence of color absorption and the reflection of all visible colors simultaneously.

End geek rant.

For an interview I stick with either Black or Cordovan, but will swing brown for less stressful/formal situations.


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## DavidLeoThomas (Jan 18, 2010)

pkincy said:


> [...] boorrrrring [...] platapus feet [...]


Poisoned barbs are *boring*?


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## joeyb1000 (Feb 24, 2010)

My vote:
Black with gray.
Prefer black with blue.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Xyst said:


> If I remember my physics lectures correctly :idea:, black is actually the absorption of all colors (depending on the absoluteness of the particular black in question), but the reflection of little to no color (obviously no light reflection would essentially require the presence of a singularity, and try as I might I haven't found a cobbler to pull that one off yet!). Conversely, true white is actually the absence of color absorption and the reflection of all visible colors simultaneously.
> 
> End geek rant.
> 
> For an interview I stick with either Black or Cordovan, but will swing brown for less stressful/formal situations.


You didn't realise did you, until too late, that you were replying to a thread that died four years ago? :icon_smile: Nevermind, I do it myself occasionally :icon_smile:
Welcome to the forum!


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## Wildblue (Oct 11, 2009)

I've been quite conservative all my life, and so have always worn black shoes with grey and navy suits or slacks. However, just recently I have suddenly discovered that I actually think burgundy/brown/cordovan shoes look fantastic with these. Quite sophisticated.


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## FrontHeadlock (Dec 1, 2009)

I tend to prefer black with darker grays. I will also do black with lighter grays, but like browns as well.

With navy I prefer browns or burgundys.


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## TheDlABlO (Feb 5, 2010)

i'd prefer black over brown.

I'm neutral to black vs. red-ish brown (merlot/oxblood/cordovan). just my preference...


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## BearBear (Jan 29, 2010)

Orgetorix said:


> Also, don't listen to the rubbish that you can't wear black shoes with a navy suit. That's pure bunk from the world of women's fashion. Black, as the others have said, is perfectly appropriate with both navy and gray.


Exactly


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## Randomer (Apr 12, 2010)

Hey all,

Apologies for reviving a month old topic but it's pretty relevant to what I want to ask.

I've recently bought a burgundy cravat, which I'm planning to wear with a wing collared white shirt, along with a waistcoat and a pair of trousers. I'm aiming for a bit of a gothic look, but not too over the top with accessories and detail. I'm thinking about going for a medium to dark grey for the waistcoat and trousers, along with a pair of fairly dark brown shoes. Would this be acceptable? Also, what sort of shoes do people think would fit this look? I'm hoping I can find some shoes/boots which would suit this outfit and also be suitable to wear with a more casual outfit, although this isn't required.

I've done some research into this look but it's fairly difficult to hunt down some examples without a more experienced opinion first, so any help would be hugely appreciated.

If it helps, I'm 25 and I'm aiming to wear this to an alternative/fetish club.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

I suppose my first thought is that why worry about what is "right" or "traditional" or follows the "rules." It seems the venue you will attend is all about breaking or bending the rules, so go with your gut. Heck, you might consider wearing a pair of black high top retro Converse All Stars with the outfit to spice it up a bit.

Perry


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## Archdale (Mar 24, 2010)

alaric said:


> Brown (mahogany, burgundy, merlot, etc.) have always been my favorites with navy and grey, esp. dark greys.
> 
> alaric


+1 to that. I rarely wear black brogues during the week, however I have been known to wear black suede Clarks with jeans on the weekend.


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## Archdale (Mar 24, 2010)

DocHolliday said:


> Just to clarify, my earlier post was that I _wouldn't_ wear brown shoes to an interview, but prefer them with navy and gray suits in general.
> 
> With that out of the way, I'll say that black shoes have their place. I don't care for black bluchers, but I like the formality of black captoes for serious occasions. I also like black shoes with certain shades of brown suits. And I quite like black monks (with silver buckles), often preferring them to brown ones.


Well I you can see where my loyalties lye with regards to monks:


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## Randomer (Apr 12, 2010)

pkincy said:


> I suppose my first thought is that why worry about what is "right" or "traditional" or follows the "rules." It seems the venue you will attend is all about breaking or bending the rules, so go with your gut. Heck, you might consider wearing a pair of black high top retro Converse All Stars with the outfit to spice it up a bit.
> 
> Perry


Pretty good point actually, I've seen some grey suits worn with black All Stars before with good results so I can see it working for a less formal outfit, although it might look a little stylish?

I did a little research today and I'm thinking of getting a medium to light waistcoat with darker trousers and then whatever footwear I go for. I found a grey waistcoat with a burgundy back which looked like it might fit perfectly, although it's an awful lot of colour.

If I ended up going for some brown shoes what would be a good style? I'll go to Schuh for the All Stars and they've got some decent brown shoes there too, so I can try both once I have the trousers bought.


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## mlongano (Feb 3, 2010)

Traditionally I've always worn black shoes with navy, but recently I've started wearing merlot. I don't think I could pull off a brown shoe with navy or charcoal.


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