# "Dress up" hats on men



## WICaniac (Sep 25, 2013)

Rather than derail the (very amusing) thread dedicated to confessing our sartorial sins, I thought I'd ask here what exactly some members have against "'dress up' hats on men"--especially among the men wearing them.

I gather there's a generational issue; _some _older gentlemen who've been wearing dress hats since before they went out of style seem to resent younger men wearing them. Why? Because it's an affectation for the young? Because they're doing it wrong? Because, like Orin Hatch, they associate fedoras not with well-dressed men with a traditional sense of style but instead with double-skim latte-sipping hipsters? (



). At what age _can_ an AARP-inelligible man wear a "dress up" hat without looking like a hipster or a musician? Is David Gandy doing this wrong?








If so, I'd submit that it cannot be done right.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

I think the problem is that hats tend to be appended to whatever outfit the man is wearing, rather than taking care to wear it well, and seeing it as part of an outfit. Or that they fail to wear it as outerwear, perhaps - viewing it as an accessory to their graphic t-shirt, and out of place scarf.

I've worn mine both ways. I got my first real hat at 24, when a grad student, and I wore it most days, with a full length overcoat, over whatever else I happened to be wearing to the lab/office/library, that day. I used to wear that fedora with just about anything if going to a bar/club/concert type of place/event - but then everything one wear's is affected in that case, and you know where you're going, what type of people are going to be there, and what's generally considered appropriate. It's different than the types of styles we, mostly, enjoy around here, but it is in its native habitat, so you can declare it terrible but not inappropriate.

I think the thing that can be irksome is the wearing of magnificent, crafted garments, ironically, as some sort of intentional joke, not because they genuinely like, and appreciate, its style and quality. It sort of feels like the hipster way of wearing a hat, shall we call it, is an insult to those of us that wear hats sincerely.

David Gandy is doing it brilliantly; I can't see anyone complaining about that. But then, I own eight hats; six of them would be considered "proper hats" by anyone.


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## shadoman (Jun 8, 2014)

My Father would have never left the house without a hat on. 
I got my own first at the age of 10, to go with my confirmation suit.
He caught me the correct way to wear it, when to doff, and when to remove it completely.
Although I don't wear them now, I believe that they still look great when worn with the right clothing.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

People in general rarely wear dress hats any more. (That a significant number of the minority who post on clothing message boards do wear them does not change this.) Especially on young people, the hats look like they are wearing a sport coat that belong's to their father.

Many of the young people who have posted pictures of themselves in a fedora look like they are playing dress-up. I don't pretend to know why, but most of them look "off" when they do. 

I think almost anyone looks "off" if they wear one with a suit in the summer. Older people get away with it because of the confidence and the probable knowledge of those that see them that this is what they are used to wearing. Younger people don't get that slack.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Here's what I believe the problem to be: hats are the sole focus of many people's attire as they are something of a "novelty" in the Twenty-First Century, just like the Bow-Tie (what's the big deal? It's just a tie that comes in another shape). Both garments are uncommon in today's world, and because of this, if anyone wears a hat or a bow-tie, then they will stick out in the crowd. In fact, anyone wearing proper clothing will be noticed, and since hats are much more obscure than clothing, then they will draw out even more attention.

Another thing that must be noted is that since hats are a novelty for this century, the people who buy and actually wear them have no idea on HOW to wear them; too many people strictly adhere to the rules and show too much concern for their hats, some even believing that they are single-handedly bringing back a "fashion". As someone who has always worn hats (wool caps until high school; I never realized that hats were "dead" until I was ten, but that's another story), it can indeed be annoying to see someone incorrectly wearing a hat, such as indoors (it goes off with the overcoat), with the brim up at all times (I hate this; this is like wearing a ball cap backwards), grabbing it by the pinches (this will cause damage, it is meant to be handled by the brim; I wear a telescope-crown, so this will create a nasty bash if it is pinched), only wearing black hats (black is not the only color, and does not "go with everything"), wearing incorrect clothing (don't wear denims with a hat unless if you're a farmer or someone who is actually engaged in outdoor labor or similar activities), and generally wearing cheaply-made hats that just look awful, with cheap wool and bands that do not even have a bow.

Ah, I could go all day with what I have to say, but I'll stop.

-Quetzal


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> People in general rarely wear dress hats any more. (That a significant number of the minority who post on clothing message boards do wear them does not change this.) Especially on young people, the hats look like they are wearing a sport coat that belong's to their father.
> 
> Many of the young people who have posted pictures of themselves in a fedora look like they are playing dress-up. I don't pretend to know why, but most of them look "off" when they do.
> 
> I think almost anyone looks "off" if they wear one with a suit in the summer. Older people get away with it because of the confidence and the probable knowledge of those that see them that this is what they are used to wearing. Younger people don't get that slack.


I think you've hit on something big there by mentioning confidence. Also, people generally (like with suits, generally) don't realize that hats have many variations across equal levels of quality and stylishness. They don't realize they need to look for the hat that suits them - rather they try to get the one they think is coolest, or most correct, or some other criteria.


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## Bernie Zack (Feb 10, 2010)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> People in general rarely wear dress hats any more. (That a significant number of the minority who post on clothing message boards do wear them does not change this.) Especially on young people, the hats look like they are wearing a sport coat that belong's to their father.
> 
> Many of the young people who have posted pictures of themselves in a fedora look like they are playing dress-up. I don't pretend to know why, but most of them look "off" when they do.
> 
> I think almost anyone looks "off" if they wear one with a suit in the summer. Older people get away with it because of the confidence and the probable knowledge of those that see them that this is what they are used to wearing. Younger people don't get that slack.


I think you nailed it. I wear them, religiously, as much to avoid skin cancer as I do because I like the look. However, I get away with it because I am older (read: more mature) and the younger people in the office know that I don't care what they think. I hear "Bernie is the only one that I know that can get away with that look. . ." and "That hat looks great on you, but I could never pull that off."


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> People in general rarely wear dress hats any more. (That a significant number of the minority who post on clothing message boards do wear them does not change this.) Especially on young people, the hats look like they are wearing a sport coat that belong's to their father.
> 
> Many of the young people who have posted pictures of themselves in a fedora look like they are playing dress-up. I don't pretend to know why, but most of them look "off" when they do.
> 
> I think almost anyone looks "off" if they wear one with a suit in the summer. Older people get away with it because of the confidence and the probable knowledge of those that see them that this is what they are used to wearing. Younger people don't get that slack.


I agree with your second paragraph, which in turn supports my theory on how too many people put too much emphasis on hats, with the rest of the outfit looking terrible. They should just be worn as they would with a ball cap; as something to cover heads, but to be worn with actual clothes, just as a ball cap is meant to be worn with the athletic attire that too many people wear as casual or even (gulp) dress clothes.

To the contrary of the last paragraph, I always wear my hat with a suit, regardless of the weather. In the summer, I wear sunglasses; these are traded in for a topcoat in cold weather. Every older man who has the right to criticize (only 80 and 90 year olds can do so; their baby-boomer children can't really criticize) whom I've encountered always compliment me, and tell me that I "wear it right" unlike those "young people" (though I technically fit into that category). One lady at my church even told her husband as they were leaving, "now why did YOU stop wearing your hats?" I've only received negative feedback from 60 and 70-year-olds, but they've never even owned a hat.

-Quetzal


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## Kreiger (Nov 6, 2011)

In 2014 a dress hat is a piece of costume. I know that statement probably will offend some, but I am not speaking to _should_ issues here.

For example- imagine what the typical AAAC member would wear to a job interview. Add a dress hat. You now have a '1940's guy' costume. Older guys get slack precisely because 'hats are old-timey.'


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

In 2014 a dress hat is protection against the elements just as it was in 1914. You don't want either a cold head or skin cancer, you wear a hat. When dressed casually wear a casual hat. When in suit and tie wear a fedora, a good one. "Costume" has nothing to do with it.


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## AMProfessor (Sep 9, 2011)

Kreiger said:


> In 2014 a dress hat is a piece of costume. I know that statement probably will offend some, but I am not speaking to _should_ issues here.
> 
> For example- imagine what the typical AAAC member would wear to a job interview. Add a dress hat. You now have a '1940's guy' costume. Older guys get slack precisely because 'hats are old-timey.'


Indeed. They are by and large costume pieces as worn today. On a college campus I see occasional guys in their 20s who have recently discovered this "internet menswear thing" and are all gussied up. They stick out, and look to be in costume. Compliments like "that's quite a look" or "wow, quite an outfit you've got there", or "looking sharp Bob" do not always mean exactly what you might think they mean.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Oldsarge said:


> In 2014 a dress hat is protection against the elements just as it was in 1914. You don't want either a cold head or skin cancer, you wear a hat. When dressed casually wear a casual hat. When in suit and tie wear a fedora, a good one. "Costume" has nothing to do with it.


Case in point, just came back from the corner store, and my head is dry.


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## 123abc (Oct 3, 2014)

I'm in the "hat = costume look" camp, but to each his own. Why are they seen as costume today on anyone who wasn't in WWII or Korean war era? Good question. My dad wore a Tom Landry style hat every day that I can recall, BUT it wasn't part of an "outfit" and he didn't match it to his Pocket Square and $500 Walnut colored shoes, he just put it on his head and went out the door. He had one for church and one for all other that was beat up. I think hat wearers are seeing as trying too hard maybe. Truth be told, I like the look but would never wear one for fashion.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

123abc said:


> I'm in the "hat = costume look" camp, but to each his own. Why are they seen as costume today on anyone who wasn't in WWII or Korean war era? Good question. My dad wore a Tom Landry style hat every day that I can recall, BUT it wasn't part of an "outfit" and he didn't match it to his Pocket Square and $500 Walnut colored shoes, he just put it on his head and went out the door. He had one for church and one for all other that was beat up. I think hat wearers are seeing as trying too hard maybe. Truth be told, I like the look but would never wear one for fashion.


I think that's a common theme people in both camps are hitting on - trying too hard. If you wear a hat as a hat, you look like a guy wearing a hat. If you wear a hat as a statement, you look like a tool.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

Oldsarge said:


> In 2014 a dress hat is protection against the elements just as it was in 1914. You don't want either a cold head or skin cancer, you wear a hat. When dressed casually wear a casual hat. When in suit and tie wear a fedora, a good one. "Costume" has nothing to do with it.


In theory this is correct. I've been looking for a hat for some time for sun protection, but the problem is every time I try on a hat in the store I look like a caricature. It's a problem because I can't wear a baseball cap with a suit, not that I would anyway, and all the wearable hats are too costumey. They guy in the shop said once I'd worn it for a while and got comfortable with it, it would start to look natural, and perhaps that's the case. But it's still not easy to pull off.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

dr.butcher said:


> In theory this is correct. I've been looking for a hat for some time for sun protection, but the problem is every time I try on a hat in the store I look like a caricature. It's a problem because I can't wear a baseball cap with a suit, not that I would anyway, and all the wearable hats are too costumey. They guy in the shop said once I'd worn it for a while and got comfortable with it, it would start to look natural, and perhaps that's the case. But it's still not easy to pull off.


Have you any photos of yourself in hats you've tried on?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

123abc said:


> I'm in the "hat = costume look" camp, but to each his own. Why are they seen as costume today on anyone who wasn't in WWII or Korean war era? Good question. My dad wore a Tom Landry style hat every day that I can recall, BUT it wasn't part of an "outfit" and he didn't match it to his Pocket Square and $500 Walnut colored shoes, he just put it on his head and went out the door. He had one for church and one for all other that was beat up. I think hat wearers are seeing as trying too hard maybe. Truth be told, I like the look but would never wear one for fashion.


I'm Vietnam generation and I think your dad had it right. I have two hats for church (summer and winter) a straw hat for gardening, a fishing hat and a whole bunch of caps that are to keep my head warm and dry when I'm outdoors. That's what they're for.

But as to this 'costume' idea, all clothing is costume. Your suit is a costume for business whether you recognize the fact or not. All uniforms are costumes. Landfill fashion is another costume, a really repulsive one. It's _all_ costume.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Oldsarge said:


> I'm Vietnam generation and I think your dad had it right. I have two hats for church (summer and winter) a straw hat for gardening, a fishing hat and a whole bunch of caps that are to keep my head warm and dry when I'm outdoors. That's what they're for.
> 
> But as to this 'costume' idea, all clothing is costume. Your suit is a costume for business whether you recognize the fact or not. All uniforms are costumes. Landfill fashion is another costume, a really repulsive one. It's _all_ costume.


Something tells me that that is the Post-WWII mentality; 1950s television shows men wearing a felt hat when dressed up (I cannot recall, but one show mentioned somebody only wearing a hat when they travelled; Leave It To Beaver, perhaps), some outdoors hat when camping or working outside, and a baseball cap. In Father Knows Best, he wears a baseball cap with a sport coat on some weekend occasions.

-Quetzal


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## WICaniac (Sep 25, 2013)

StylePurgatory said:


> I think you've hit on something big there by mentioning confidence. Also, people generally (like with suits, generally) don't realize that hats have many variations across equal levels of quality and stylishness. They don't realize they need to look for the hat that suits them - rather they try to get the one they think is coolest, or most correct, or some other criteria.


I agree entirely on both counts. The only way to acquire the confidence, of course, is to experiment and find the right hat. I have a friend/colleague in his 40s who wears a brim-up fedora (with appropriate accompanying attire) and it looks perfect on him. I've crossed paths with a Philip Seymour Hoffman-playing-Truman Capote lookalike (also in his 40s) who had the same effect. They would have looked wrong _without_ their hats. I have discovered that I cannot pull off a black or grey fedora without looking like the owner of a magician's supply shop. For whatever reason, a Homburg in those colors looks "right" on me--despite my own observation in another thread that Homburgs are a costume item where I live.

Nevertheless, I will concede that younger men rarely look right in dress hats. If you look like David Gandy, you can do it in your 20s or 30s. If not, grey hair and wrinkles compensate for good looks.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

I've worn hats in the fall / winter months since I was about 30. If anyone has an issue with it, the problem is entirely theirs.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> In 2014 a dress hat is protection against the elements just as it was in 1914. You don't want either a cold head or skin cancer, you wear a hat. When dressed casually wear a casual hat. When in suit and tie wear a fedora, a good one. "Costume" has nothing to do with it.


:icon_cheers: Amen


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

StylePurgatory said:


> Have you any photos of yourself in hats you've tried on?


Unfortunately I don't. They were all tried on in stores.



RogerP said:


> I've worn hats in the fall / winter months since I was about 30. _If anyone has an issue with it, the problem is entirely theirs._


Even dressing up as much as the people on this forum do, there is a difference between dressing up (i) appropriately for the situation at hand, and (ii) within the limits of what is socially acceptable. Canes and monocles kind of straddle a difficult line because they are a product of times past. While a Fedora or Trilby is more acceptable today than a Top Hat, in a nearly hatless city, a young guy (30) wearing a 2- or 3-piece suit with a pocket square, possibly a buttonhole, etc., will have a harder time pulling off a hat. Older guys have an easier time pulling off hats, because it goes with their generation, the same way that babies can pull off a onesie with aplomb but adults wearing them in the street (not including workmen) can look a little sillier, like they are trying too hard.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

dr.butcher said:


> Even dressing up as much as the people on this forum do, there is a difference between dressing up (i) appropriately for the situation at hand, and (ii) *within the limits of what is socially acceptable*. Canes and monocles kind of straddle a difficult line because they are a product of times past. While a Fedora or Trilby is more acceptable today than a Top Hat, in a nearly hatless city, a young guy (30) wearing a 2- or 3-piece suit with a pocket square, possibly a buttonhole, etc., will have a harder time pulling off a hat. Older guys have an easier time pulling off hats, because it goes with their generation, the same way that babies can pull off a onesie with aplomb but adults wearing them in the street (not including workmen) can *look a little sillier, like they are trying too hard*.


Who defines what is socially acceptable? You?

Look silly to whom? You?


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> In 2014 a dress hat is protection against the elements just as it was in 1914. You don't want either a cold head or skin cancer, you wear a hat. When dressed casually wear a casual hat. When in suit and tie wear a fedora, a good one. "Costume" has nothing to do with it.


Spot on. I suppose I could wear a toque with a suit and overcoat and avoid being branded as a costume-wearer who is trying too hard. But I'd rather welcome the condemnation of one so ill-informed and make a far more elegant choice for myself.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

RogerP said:


> Spot on. I suppose I could wear a toque with a suit and overcoat and avoid being branded as a costume-wearer who is trying too hard. But I'd rather welcome the condemnation of one so ill-informed and make a far more elegant choice for myself.


There is a point at which the toque becomes he right choice. This point is roughly -8*C, with a reasonably strong wind, or -15*C with no wind.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

RogerP said:


> Who defines what is socially acceptable? You?
> 
> Look silly to whom? You?


I am assuming that this is a rhetorical question due to its outlandishness, because no, I do not define what is socially acceptable. Lol. I am talking about general social trends.

There is one school of though which postulates that a "dandy" cannot be someone who doesn't dress according to the conventions of his age, i.e. David Gandy could be considered dandyish, but someone in a Stresseman today would not. That's not to say it couldn't be worn.

The point of dandies was only brought up because of the relevance of outmoded forms of dress. I wear a tie pin, DB suits with waistcoats, suspenders with the occasional pair of fish mouth trousers, and other forms of clothing that are not widely seen but have not yet passed over in "historical costume". I have no problem with wearing a hat and I certainly don't think they look silly, in fact I think they look rather good, but as much as I love to dress up, I try to peacock in a subdued manner. I don't want people to stop and look because they've never seen a stovepipe hat outside of Civil War photographs.

As such, I currently shy away from hats because I feel on me, at this particular moment in time, in the city that I live in, they just draw too much attention. That's not to say they're silly, or costume-y, or anything of the sort. If I, personally, could get away with it I damn well would.



RogerP said:


> Spot on. I suppose I could wear a toque with a suit and overcoat and avoid being branded as a costume-wearer who is trying too hard. But I'd rather welcome the condemnation of one so ill-informed and make a far more elegant choice for myself.


I preface this post by saying there is no offence intended, and this is written with all due respect, but there is a slightly North American-centric bias on this forum. You talk of people who are "ill-informed" as if there's a global constant which dictates what does and doesn't look silly. Where I live it's acceptable to walk around the streets with a hand-held fan in the summer as a way of keeping cool. I'm guessing that's a less common sight in North America. I would probably wear a hat if I was living in a city like NYC without a second thought. There's a western guy living in my area who wears traditional Indian men's dress like he stepped off the set of "Gandhi". He probably blends in in India but sticks out like a sore thumb here. Looking like a costume-wearer or not can often be determined by what is generally considered acceptable/normal dress where/when you live.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Are you seeing both men & women with handheld fans?

I see women having hot flashes with fans in America all the time, never seen a man with one though.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

mhdena said:


> Are you seeing both men & women with handheld fans?
> 
> I see women having hot flashes with fans in America all the time, never seen a man with one though.


More women than men, but men also use them. I think hand-held fans have a strong association with men in Asia through the Japanese samurai culture and Chinese kung fu, where they are both used as weapons:


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

I think the elderly (a category in which I sadly must count myself) typically regard irony in clothing among the young in a negative manner. The trick here is, of course, in accurately identifying irony.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

MaxBuck said:


> I think the elderly (a category in which I sadly must count myself) typically regard irony in clothing among the young in a negative manner. The trick here is, of course, in accurately identifying irony.


People should wear whatever they are comfortable wearing (unless they are in prison and forced to don a rented tux)... how others view them is a different matter. I'd wear a cork hat in the Australian outback, it's necessary at times, but nowhere else.

Edit: just adding a great photo of the PoW in a cork hat:


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## Kreiger (Nov 6, 2011)

I think there is some conflation of issues going on here, which lead to the 'costume' point I was trying to make causing offense where none was intended.

SHOULD hats be a common part of most men's wardrobe? Certainly. As OldSarge, Rodger, and others have pointed out, there are many very practical reasons to don a hat.

WHY don't more men wear dress hats? Because they have become very rare in our times. So rare, in fact, that they create an impression of eccentricty (at the very least).

Anyone who wishes to wear a hat should do so. It is quite possible that you even look pretty good wearing it. If you are young, however, that hat is a statement, regardless of how good you look or how comfortable you are wearing one.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Kreiger said:


> Anyone who wishes to wear a hat should do so. It is quite possible that you even look pretty good wearing it. If you are young, however, that hat is a statement, regardless of how good you look or how comfortable you are wearing one.


Well, in the case of any man, the wearing of a hat, at a minimum, states "I am wearing a hat."


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## LookinSharp24 (Jun 3, 2013)

WICaniac said:


> Rather than derail the (very amusing) thread dedicated to confessing our sartorial sins, I thought I'd ask here what exactly some members have against "'dress up' hats on men"--especially among the men wearing them.
> 
> I gather there's a generational issue; _some _older gentlemen who've been wearing dress hats since before they went out of style seem to resent younger men wearing them. Why? Because it's an affectation for the young? Because they're doing it wrong? Because, like Orin Hatch, they associate fedoras not with well-dressed men with a traditional sense of style but instead with double-skim latte-sipping hipsters? (
> 
> ...


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## Natty Beau (Apr 29, 2014)

I think the hat, like the pocket handkerchief, has seen a really (not just in Andyland) rebound among the better dressed.

I see them all the time on TV anchors and characters in shows set in the present day (although Mad Men did not hurt the hat).

It might have been about to cross the line into costume as we entered the 20th century, but it drew back from the ledge.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

A nice fedora/or Panama hat during the warmer months, protects our head, neck and ears from the elements. If such sartorial choices also contribute to our appearing to be in costume or to to look a bit more finely turned out, that's even better! In any event, that's how I roll.


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## tigerpac (Jan 23, 2014)

I've tried several hat stores to find something I felt comfortable in, without success. One day it'll happen!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I enjoy wearing dress hats during the Fall and Winter months.


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## heywoodJ (Nov 13, 2012)

Sometimes I wear shoes made of leather.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Kreiger said:


> In 2014 a dress hat is a piece of costume. I know that statement probably will offend some, but I am not speaking to _should_ issues here.
> 
> For example- imagine what the typical AAAC member would wear to a job interview. Add a dress hat. You now have a '1940's guy' costume. Older guys get slack precisely because 'hats are old-timey.'


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

As usual, my comments are superfluous and banal but inevitable. 
At 61, I have long been old enough not to look like an Indiana Jones wannabe, while wearing a nice Dobbs, Akubra or Mallory fedora. I wear dress fedoras in cold weather because first of all, they keep my head warm and dry and because they look appropriate with a suit and topcoat. 
To you folks who don't wear them, what's better to wear with a suit and topcoat? What would a ball cap look like? A knit cap? One of those weird Tibetan things? Should we wear one of those Karzai nubby haired envelopes? A Storny Kromer? Really? No, I don't think so.

I might wear a newsboy cap on casual Friday and even a beret just to p--s folks off.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

filfoster said:


> I might wear a newsboy cap on casual Friday and even a beret just to p--s folks off.


Both at once? I applaud your boldness!


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## WICaniac (Sep 25, 2013)

filfoster said:


> To you folks who don't wear them, what's better to wear with a suit and topcoat? What would a ball cap look like? A knit cap? One of those weird Tibetan things? Should we wear one of those Karzai nubby haired envelopes? A Storny Kromer? Really? No, I don't think so.


Agreed. Depending on how cold it gets, however, Cossack style hats in fur or shearling look appropriate and are much warmer.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

filfoster said:


> I wear dress fedoras in cold weather because first of all, they keep my head warm and dry and because they look appropriate with a suit and topcoat.
> To you folks who don't wear them, what's better to wear with a suit and topcoat? What would a ball cap look like? A knit cap? One of those weird Tibetan things? Should we wear one of those Karzai nubby haired envelopes? A Storny Kromer? Really? No, I don't think so.


I could not agree more. I'd be keen to hear what those who would brand such a choice as "costume" actually suggest as an alternative. Actually, not really.


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

Frankly, a fedora won't cut it in real cold. My ears are ready to snap off after a few minutes when it's -10 and I'm wearing a fedora, so I have the earflap Tilley options, a Cossacky sort of thing, a tweed ear flapped cap or a knit cap to choose from. I believe in truly cold weather (not sure this happens in Kentucky??) a nice solid colour knit cap is perfectly apropos and looks just fine. Save the toque with the sewn in antlers or bat wings or casual Fridays. 

I've had some pretty terrible sun damage from a lifetime of sailing and this coupled with a bar-ish pate leaves me wearing brims regularly. I receive regular compliments on a couple of straw Panama- like hats, not so much on the fur fedoras, and I don't feel too affected when I'm wearing them. I do think the wider brims of the Capone era are a little less stylish theses days, but also more pragmatic.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Dress hats are hardly about weather. Not warm enough. Knit cap, tweed or rabbit/faux rabbit.

I also wouldn't wear one, it smacks too much of costume these days where I live. And general nutbaggery. It may be different where you live. 

Being +50 yo helps, and being immaculately dressed otherwise. But a dress hat does not add stylishness as much as it detracts, in 99% of the people I see wearing them irl or online. 

I propose a test: zoom up the pic of the guy wearing the Fedora on your iPad (pc?) and read the following out loud, loudly and with emphasis. If that gets you grinning really hard, it's a fail:

"All right, that’s enough. I want this no-face character dead and I want Tracy dead. What’s the matter, you bums forgotten how to kill people? Have you no sense of pride in what you do? No sense of duty, no sense of destiny? I’m looking for generals; what have I got? Foot soldiers! I want Dick Tracy dead"


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

My dress hats are entirely sufficient to provide needed warmth over the course of a Toronto winter.

My personal key to dressing well seems to devolve into doing the opposite of whatever Bjorn suggests.ic12337:


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

RogerP said:


> My dress hats are entirely sufficient to provide needed warmth over the course of a Toronto winter.
> 
> My personal key to dressing well seems to devolve into doing the opposite of whatever Bjorn suggests.ic12337:


Generally speaking, if you should find me following RogerP around from haberdasher to haberdasher, you'll find me echoing the phrase of the woman who overheard Meg Ryan in "When Harry Met Sally:" *"I'll have what he's having."*

Until I run out of funds, that is.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I recently visited the Stockport hat museum with a dear friend of mine (a member of this forum) and a jolly wheeze it was.

Something to bear in mind is that many hats seen round and about these days are merely inferior quality 'hat-shaped' objects, not real hats at all. As in all things, a decent item will bestow not detract.

Further, consideration of face shape is imperative. Just as poorly chosen spectacle frames can make a fellow look foolish so too can an ill-suited hat. As example: not everyone is Bogey, the fedora requires gravitas beneath it, not a skinny boy with a wispy goatee.

I will concede that I am slightly leery of hats, for they will muss up my neatly pomaded side parting. This said on windy and rainy days it is the lesser of two evils and so I wear my flat cap quite happily.

One of these days, perhaps in my mid 50's, I shall purchase from a reputable manufacturer (probably a Christy's Knightsbridge in a light beige) and wear it whenever the weather permits.


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## shadoman (Jun 8, 2014)

Just don't try to rob anyone.

https://www.khou.com/media/cinematic/video/15998868/fedora-wearing-robber/


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> Dress hats are hardly about weather. Not warm enough. Knit cap, tweed or rabbit/faux rabbit.
> 
> I also wouldn't wear one, it smacks too much of costume these days where I live. And general nutbaggery. It may be different where you live.
> 
> ...


If we are to make associations with fictional characters as a ruling against garments then we had all better burn our trench-coats:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Shaver said:


> If we are to make associations with fictional characters as a ruling against garments then we had all better burn our trench-coats:


The trenchcoat, sure. With the hat, maybe not


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Shaver said:


> If we are to make associations with fictional characters as a ruling against garments then we had all better burn our trench-coats:


I love the Gucci belt.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I recently visited the Stockport hat museum with a dear friend of mine (a member of this forum) and a jolly wheeze it was.
> 
> Something to bear in mind is that many hats seen round and about these days are merely inferior quality 'hat-shaped' objects, not real hats at all. As in all things, a decent item will bestow not detract.
> 
> ...


That flat cap looks quite smart - I have a small rotation of those as well some in linen / cotton blends that are perfect for the summer months:

And some wool or wool / cashmere blends for the colder months:

I still gravitate toward the fedoras when the outfit is more formal, or when I just feel like wearing something more structured and substantial.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

This is one of my favourite pictures of you Roger, that you look as smart in a few simple pieces as you do in your usual full splendour does you much credit.




Now I defy anyone to tell me that this is costumey - it is a very natural and unobtrusive example of the right hat on the right man.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

RogerP said:


> That flat cap looks quite smart - I have a small rotation of those as well some in linen / cotton blends that are perfect for the summer months:
> 
> And some wool or wool / cashmere blends for the colder months:
> 
> I still gravitate toward the fedoras when the outfit is more formal, or when I just feel like wearing something more structured and substantial.


Bravo, to all our hat wearing brethren. I've refrained from posting in this thread for fear I would be banging my head against a brick wall. Costume?..Eccentric?..Old timey?etc. 
What a bunch of buffalo chip claptrap. Proper hats, worn paired with proper attire, does not detract, I say rather enhances. I've been wearing hats since my late twenties to present, fedoras, Panamas, and yes I'm a septuagenarian and I do not need anyone to grant me a pass because of that. Wear the wrong hat, for all the wrong reasons, sure you'll look the fool.

WHY don't more men wear dress hats? Because they have become very rare in our times. So rare, in fact, that they create an impression of eccentricty (at the very least).

Really..... Someone forgot to tell Hatco.,Borsalino. Barbisio, Scala, Akubra, Christy, Locke, etc. and the many bespoke/custom hatters across the country and Canada who can't keep up with the demand. One would think I would have to scour the Earth to find one. Did they give impressions of eccentricity when a large portion of the male population wore hats? Were they cartoonish then?

Sure, there aren't as many hat wearers today, I can only guess as to why. Perhaps some self proclaimed fashion guru, maybe writing for GQ said they are passe, and the lemmings followed. Some attribute it to JFK who did not wear his hat at his inauguration. I don't know nor do I care.

I'm ever so grateful to those who tell me it's okay if I want to wear a hat, heck I MIGHT even look good doing it, thank you, as if I needed anyone's affirmation to do so.


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Y'all need to broaden your minds a skoch. You hat haters and skeptics need to drop by the Fedora Lounge www.fedoralounge.com

I get some of the sentiment about 'costumey' but for many of us, a well-chosen fedora looks right and proper. At least you'll have the decency to snicker behind our backs, won't you?


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## WICaniac (Sep 25, 2013)

Shaver said:


> Now I defy anyone to tell me that this is costumey - it is a very natural and unobtrusive example of the right hat on the right man.


I agree (with compliments to Roger). That combination--right hat, right man--isn't terribly common today, however, which I think explains part of the prejudice against "dress up" hats.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

WICaniac said:


> I agree (with compliments to Roger). That combination--right hat, right man--isn't terribly common today, however, which I think explains part of the prejudice against "dress up" hats.


Right hats are are still available, right men, last I looked still around, both of which not terribly uncommon. Difference is, some of us choose not to follow the un-authoritative dictum's of the latter day fashionistas while others do, for fear they will be labeled ( insert your own adjectives ). Cartoons.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

FLCracka said:


> I love the Gucci belt.


The G stands for Gadget.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

RogerP said:


> That flat cap looks quite smart - I have a small rotation of those as well some in linen / cotton blends that are perfect for the summer months:
> 
> And some wool or wool / cashmere blends for the colder months:
> 
> I still gravitate toward the fedoras when the outfit is more formal, or when I just feel like wearing something more structured and substantial.


looking quite handsome Rog.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

WICaniac said:


> I agree (with compliments to Roger). That combination--right hat, right man--isn't terribly common today, however, which I think explains part of the prejudice against "dress up" hats.





EclecticSr. said:


> Right hats are are still available, right men, last I looked still around, both of which not terribly uncommon. Difference is, some of us choose not to follow the un-authoritative dictum's of the latter day fashionistas while others do, for fear they will be labeled ( insert your own adjectives ). Cartoons.


These two comments may disagree about statistics but they agree on style.
The success of Roger's "look" depends, I think, on the fact that the headgear is worn for practical reasons. It's much easier, and and also less noticeable, to wear a hat with an overcoat or raincoat as he does in two of the three pictures, while in the other the cap is worn for sun-protection. Why should anyone object to this?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

This has been one of my favorites to wear. ↑


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

EclecticSr. said:


> Sure, there aren't as many hat wearers today, I can only guess as to why. Perhaps some self proclaimed fashion guru, maybe writing for GQ said they are passe, and the lemmings followed. Some attribute it to JFK who did not wear his hat at his inauguration. I don't know nor do I care.


I've actually read (I cannot recall where, but I believe Esquire, or maybe GQ) a very compelling explanation of why fewer men wear hats now, than in the past. It is so simple, and logical, that I accept it as the truth. The reason? Cars. When most men walked, took a train, or took a bus, to work each day, they were exposed to the elements for a longer period, and there is more head room in a train, or bus, than there is one's car. I sometimes drive wearing my hat, and other times I find it a bit of a nuisance, and place it on the passenger seat. Fumbling with an umbrella in enclosed spaces (train cars and platforms, bus queues, etc.) would have been discourteous, and inconvenient, so I imagine one would have closed one's umbrella before reaching these crowded areas, despite still being outside. So, the practical advantages of a hat, while the same, were more pertinent to most commuters' daily lives. This coincides with JFK's presidency - I suspect that not wearing a hat was a strategic decision, to look younger, or bolder, or more forward thinking (dressing a bit like the youngsters but not too much) just to show off his attractive features (they were a great asset, and advantage, so why not, if they'l help you win?). Or, heck, perhaps he just did not prefer one.

So, there you have it: the grand, mid-century proliferation of the mass produced automobile resulted in a lowered demand for men's hats.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

WICaniac said:


> I agree (with compliments to Roger). That combination--right hat, right man--isn't terribly common today, however, which I think explains part of the prejudice against "dress up" hats.


Have we become lazy that we don't want to wear dress hats?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

I think I'll stand by my sentiments, the above notwithstanding. A visit to the Fedora lounge does not give evidence to the contrary, quite the opposite in many cases.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Howard said:


> Have we become lazy that we don't want to wear dress hats?


I think other modern conveniences have simply made them, not impractical, but unnecessary. Something everyone clearly sees a need for, on a daily basis, will always outsell something people think is a good idea, but also easy to do without. For example; I don't put on winter tires in Vancouver, even though the temperature gets below 7*C.

To the point of the combination of right man-right hat being uncommon, since fewer hats are sold, fewer are available, making it more difficult to seek out the hat best suited to oneself. So, to a degree, yes laziness is a factor. I would question, however, the characterisation of failing to seek out a hat shop, as laziness.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'll agree with Bjorn about the pictures I saw in the Fedora Lounge. A lot of the outfits looked like people were trying to shoehorn 40 year old clothes into today's world. A lot of clashing patterns and colors were to be seen. I hope the guys who post there have fun, but I saw nothing that I'd recommend anyone wear in 2014.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'll agree with Bjorn about the pictures I saw in the Fedora Lounge. A lot of the outfits looked like people were trying to shoehorn 40 year old clothes into today's world. A lot of clashing patterns and colors were to be seen. I hope the guys who post there have fun, but I saw nothing that I'd recommend anyone wear in 2014.


Yes there is a lot of period enthusiast dress over there. It's a hobby that, clearly, they enjoy, but I would not say is necessarily good style, and it certainly isn't reserved or subtle, in many cases. But, as you say, I hope they enjoy themselves, and their clothes, as we do ourselves, and ours.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Going back to hair, I prefer hats over caps with my hair part, and hair in general. "Hat Hair" should really be called "CAP Hair" in my experience, which is why in the winter, I only wear my hat when I'm dressed up. I would wear my hat all the time, however, my ears become terribly cold, thus calling for a cap.

-Quetzal


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Quetzal said:


> Going back to hair, I prefer hats over caps with my hair part, and hair in general. "Hat Hair" should really be called "CAP Hair" in my experience, which is why in the winter, I only wear my hat when I'm dressed up. I would wear my hat all the time, however, my ears become terribly cold, thus calling for a cap.
> 
> -Quetzal


It really depends on one's haircut.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

StylePurgatory said:


> It really depends on one's haircut.


So not an issue for me.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

StylePurgatory said:


> I've actually read (I cannot recall where, but I believe Esquire, or maybe GQ) a very compelling explanation of why fewer men wear hats now, than in the past. It is so simple, and logical, that I accept it as the truth. The reason? Cars. When most men walked, took a train, or took a bus, to work each day, they were exposed to the elements for a longer period, and there is more head room in a train, or bus, than there is one's car...


This is a very interesting point, particularly given the situation in Hong Kong, where private car ownership levels are very low, and which has something like over 90% of daily trips made on public transport, the highest rate of any city in the world. So, naturally, hats would make sense. Umbrellas are everywhere in summer and with crowded streets they just knock each other and are impossible to use sometimes, particularly when those fools who fancy golf umbrellas take to the streets. The only hats I have seen on a regular basis are umbrella hats for people working in the streets to give them some form of protection from the non-stop summer rains. Though I doubt many AAAC members would don one.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

Shaver said:


> I recently visited the Stockport hat museum with a dear friend of mine (a member of this forum) and a jolly wheeze it was.
> 
> Something to bear in mind is that many hats seen round and about these days are merely inferior quality 'hat-shaped' objects, not real hats at all.


Only in terms of quality and construction?


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

dr.butcher said:


> This is a very interesting point, particularly given the situation in Hong Kong, where private car ownership levels are very low, and which has something like over 90% of daily trips made on public transport, the highest rate of any city in the world. So, naturally, hats would make sense. Umbrellas are everywhere in summer and with crowded streets they just knock each other and are impossible to use sometimes, particularly when those fools who fancy golf umbrellas take to the streets. The only hats I have seen on a regular basis are umbrella hats for people working in the streets to give them some form of protection from the non-stop summer rains. Though I doubt many AAAC members would don one.


Well, perhaps the North American trend simply set the market forces in motion? Or, it could be that the lower Asian need for personal space makes the umbrellas seem fine to everyone? Or... maybe it's just one of those thins.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> I think I'll stand by my sentiments, the above notwithstanding. A visit to the Fedora lounge does not give evidence to the contrary, quite the opposite in many cases.
> View attachment 13442


In kindness though, many of the contributors to the Hat Forum would seem to be (how best to put this?) 'intellectually challenged'. Making mockery of them is merely the shooting of fish in a barrel.

.
.
.
.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'll agree with Bjorn about the pictures I saw in the Fedora Lounge. A lot of the outfits looked like people were trying to shoehorn 40 year old clothes into today's world. A lot of clashing patterns and colors were to be seen. I hope the guys who post there have fun, but I saw nothing that I'd recommend anyone wear in 2014.


Nor would I. But could I draw the same analogy he makes between a Zoot suit and a Brooks Bros. suit as an argument against wearing suits?


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

EclecticSr. said:


> Nor would I. But could I draw the same analogy he makes between a Zoot suit and a Brooks Bros. suit as an argument against wearing suits?


Really need to get that thumbs up button working. Right on, sir!


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

EclecticSr. said:


> Nor would I. But could I draw the same analogy he makes between a Zoot suit and a Brooks Bros. suit as an argument against wearing suits?


Spot on.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Al Roker is covering the Macy's parade in a black fedora with what looks like a 1.5-2" brim. I think he needs a grey hat, with a wider brim, but the crown seems a good match for his face/head. Not sure if he lucked out, or did that on purpose.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

When putting a new band on a hat, what does everyone think of trying to match the hat colour itself. Obviously you can only acquire what ribbon you can acquire, and you need to put them together in person (not a computer screen) to be sure, but I would think it's quite possible to get a good match, given that you are dealing with two different materials, one matte and one with sheen, with different textures, so those hairs off in tone won't be ugly, like they would be if you, say, tried to wear navy odd trousers and a navy blazer.


What do others think? Any photos of doing this successfully, or unsuccessfully?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

EclecticSr. said:


> Nor would I. But could I draw the same analogy he makes between a Zoot suit and a Brooks Bros. suit as an argument against wearing suits?


Are you saying that hat is substantially different from a 'real' dress hat, as a zoot suit is from a BB suit?

I'm thinking that I'm not making an analogy, whereas that would be an analogy.

The cartoon dress hat, be it Tracy's or the Inspectors, is the real deal. Hence its problem.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> Are you saying that hat is substantially different from a 'real' dress hat, as a zoot suit is from a BB suit?
> 
> I'm thinking that I'm not making an analogy, whereas that would be an analogy.
> 
> ...


Inspector Gadget's hat is some odd turndowned brim version of a trilby that I've never seen in real life, at least not in anything other than tweed. Not to say it doesn't exist, but it's not a common city dress hat. There are variations on hats that went with the angular, grandiose proportions that were fashionable on suits in the 20's, 30's, and 40's. The brims were bigger. The crowns were higher.  This character, Rocky, first appeared in 1950. He is clearly a caricature of those fashions associated with gangsters, and g-men, and private dicks, but was created when most men wore a hat every day.









Perhaps the fact that hats aren't common means that most people don't recognize the difference between various hats, and since they associate hats with gangster movies, that's what they see when they see any hat. I was just watching an old SNL sketch from the 70's where they spoofed the Untouchables, and of course hats were a big part of the costume for the skit, even though a hat was pretty normal (though not universal) in the 70's. That doesn't, necessarily, mean the point is invalid. The association exists, therefore the perception is created, even if it isn't logical. Perception is reality. However, for other types of clothing, would we care? Sean Connery's suits as Bond are the real deal. Should I not wear a grey sharkskin 3-piece, lest it be mistaken for a James Bond in Goldfinger cosplay? Stan Smith in American Dad wears a cartoon navy suit. So does Clark Kent in comic books. Does that mean I look like a cartoon if I wear a navy suit?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

No because everyone wants to look like James Bond in their suits and so many people have continued to wear a navy suit it is ubiquitous. 

I'm sure some people can wear a hat, successfully where they live, however I could not and many people that take their own pictures and post them on the Internet really seem lost to the hat. Notably the fedora crowd. They are not themselves anymore. They are a hat. That's a mistake. 

Lord Byron described Brummell to Leigh Hunt as “having nothing remarkable in his style of dress, except a ‘certain exquisite propriety’”.

Brummell himself supposedly said:
"If people turn to look at you on the street, you are not well dressed, but either too stiff, too tight, or too fashionable."

Of course, my own mode of dress does not survive the above, dressing less casually than my coworkers, including management 

What is it that a long time poster here always puts in? Do as though willest, that is the extent of the Law.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> No because everyone wants to look like James Bond in their suits and so many people have continued to wear a navy suit it is ubiquitous.
> 
> I'm sure some people can wear a hat, successfully where they live, however I could not and many people that take their own pictures and post them on the Internet really seem lost to the hat. Notably the fedora crowd. They are not themselves anymore. They are a hat. That's a mistake.
> 
> ...


So is their actual sin wanting to look like Cary Grant, trying to look like Cary Grant, or failing at looking like Cary Grant?


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## Public Savant (Mar 2, 2014)

I wear a hat because, erm ..., I have little else to cover my head. I live in a pedestrian friendly city and so I walk a lot. In winter I need protection against the cold and rain, in summer I need protection from the sun. I have a brown and a black fedora that I use depending on suit and coat (I wear a baseball hat to and from they gym, sports wear for sports!) tweed hats for less formal wear. If the weather gets really cold I have an Astrakhan and a couple of Panamas of the odd sunny day here on the west coast of Ireland. In other words I wear hats for practical purposes but like other clothing items they can be both practical and stylish. 
To be honest I don't get why people don't wear hats in unfriendly weather. I do see a lot of people wearing beanies, that style doesn't work for me and as I say above baseball hats are for sports fields.


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## 3piece (Jan 22, 2014)

Public Savant said:


> To be honest I don't get why people don't wear hats in unfriendly weather.


It doesn't get cold enough here, but it does get hot. But _only _when I walk out of my car to a restaurant for lunch. And the fact that wearing a hat messes up my hair when I take it off, wearing a hat is just not worth it.

So far I only wear my panama hat is when I go to a park for picnic or something and I know my hat will stay on.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

3piece said:


> It doesn't get cold enough here, but it does get hot. But _only _when I walk out of my car to a restaurant for lunch. And the fact that wearing a hat messes up my hair when I take it off, wearing a hat is just not worth it.
> 
> So far I only wear my panama hat is when I go to a park for picnic or something and I know my hat will stay on.


Sensible. I don't always put mine on for 30-foot journeys - but sometimes I do because then my hands stay free!


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Wearing a hat to 'make a statement' makes no more sense than wearing a suit for the same silly reason. One wears a hat for practical reasons and chooses that hat so that it compliments the wearer-- just. like. any. other. article. of. clothing. If you don't think it makes you look good, don't wear it. How hard can this be?


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Oldsarge is right on the money, again.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

StylePurgatory said:


> I think that's a common theme people in both camps are hitting on - trying too hard. If you wear a hat as a hat, you look like a guy wearing a hat. If you wear a hat as a statement, you look like a tool.


On the other hand, there is the category of people who try too hard to NOT look good in a hat. These people, rather than wearing a nice or "dress" hat will go to great, affected lengths to procure a hat that looks like a hobo because they don't have the self esteem or polish to measure up to a proper look. Middle aged men in "bucket" hats, for example. It is an odd mindset that allows one to excuse the wearing of a hat by wearing a dumpy looking hat rather than a nice looking hat. "Yes, I'm wearing a hat, but it's ok because I don't look good."


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Hats can be worn in modern times without looking like costume. Even when, in this example, it clearly is costume. But still a good example of how to wear it right.

Note the confidence and suit. Not frowny expression and t-shirt.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

Jovan said:


> Hats can be worn in modern times without looking like costume. Even when, in this example, it clearly is costume. But still a good example of how to wear it right.
> 
> Note the confidence and suit. Not frowny expression and t-shirt.
> 
> View attachment 13449


Neil does rock the hat, but it's those super skinny ties I can't get past.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> To the point of the combination of right man-right hat being uncommon, since fewer hats are sold, fewer are available, making it more difficult to seek out the hat best suited to oneself. So, to a degree, yes laziness is a factor. I would question, however, the characterisation of failing to seek out a hat shop, as laziness.


How could anyone not go outside either in the cold or in the heat without wearing a hat?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Quetzal said:


> Going back to hair, I prefer hats over caps with my hair part, and hair in general. "Hat Hair" should really be called "CAP Hair" in my experience, which is why in the winter, I only wear my hat when I'm dressed up. I would wear my hat all the time, however, my ears become terribly cold, thus calling for a cap.
> 
> -Quetzal


you don't wear earmuffs?


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## Yodan731 (Jan 23, 2011)

StylePurgatory said:


> I've actually read (I cannot recall where, but I believe Esquire, or maybe GQ) a very compelling explanation of why fewer men wear hats now, than in the past. It is so simple, and logical, that I accept it as the truth. The reason? Cars. When most men walked, took a train, or took a bus, to work each day, they were exposed to the elements for a longer period, and there is more head room in a train, or bus, than there is one's car. I sometimes drive wearing my hat, and other times I find it a bit of a nuisance, and place it on the passenger seat. Fumbling with an umbrella in enclosed spaces (train cars and platforms, bus queues, etc.) would have been discourteous, and inconvenient, so I imagine one would have closed one's umbrella before reaching these crowded areas, despite still being outside. So, the practical advantages of a hat, while the same, were more pertinent to most commuters' daily lives. This coincides with JFK's presidency - I suspect that not wearing a hat was a strategic decision, to look younger, or bolder, or more forward thinking (dressing a bit like the youngsters but not too much) just to show off his attractive features (they were a great asset, and advantage, so why not, if they'l help you win?). Or, heck, perhaps he just did not prefer one.
> 
> So, there you have it: the grand, mid-century proliferation of the mass produced automobile resulted in a lowered demand for men's hats.


This. One of the reasons hats are starting to come back with younger people is re-urbanization. It is no secret that young people are flocking to cities in numbers far greater than their parents and grand-parents who were abandoning cities as fast as possible. Living a life that involves a lot of walking and/or public transportation will necessitate a hat. Being a suit wearing professional in such an environment will lead to a re-emergence of dress hats. Because cultural norms can be slow to change, dress hats have yet to truly take off again, but we are seeing the beginnings of the re-emergence of hat culture. I imagine that should the re-urbanization trend continue, we will see increase hat wearing among the young professional set.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Howard said:


> you don't wear earmuffs?


I used earmuffs for several years before finding a cap, which to me is not a cap unless if it has ear protection that can be folded inside (before getting a hat and a panel cap, I wore an aviator-style "helmet" that nearly wrapped around my whole head and face, so I prefer to wear less, so long as I'm protected). When I do wear my hat, I will wear earmuffs, however it becomes a hassle to, as my friend put it, "disassemble" myself.

-Quetzal


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Jovan said:


> Hats can be worn in modern times without looking like costume. Even when, in this example, it clearly is costume. But still a good example of how to wear it right.
> 
> Note the confidence and suit. Not frowny expression and t-shirt.
> 
> View attachment 13449


This is what I think of when I hear, "2010s Fashion", and what should really be considered fashionable (I shall not argue about the use of black, as this picture makes it appear decent). Since lapels these days are skinny, this means that ties should be narrow (I see too many wearing wide ties with modern-cut suits), and that tie is not even close to being as skinny as the ties from the 1950s and the 1960s that it is trying to imitate (trust me, I have many ties from the period, and few modern men can wear them without appearing to be wearing a child's tie as they are very tiny). This also means that hats should have a narrower brim, and the hat in the picture fits the bill for a modern-blocked hat; narrow brim, a high crown with very high, widely-spaced pinches with a simple center dent, and a brim with the sides curled upward, almost mimicking a stiff-brim.

Actually, hats have had narrow brims since the 1950s; the few that were made and purchased in the later 1960s, 1970s, and the 1980s all nearly looked the same in silhouette (from what I've seen), which also had straighter crowns with only a slight taper.

-Quetzal


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

I don't like stingy brims or skinny ties.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

mhdena said:


> I don't like stingy brims or skinny ties.


 Like almost everything, both of those look good on the right person. I'm 5'7" and 140 lbs, and wear a 36S. Skinny ties look well proportioned on me, and work pretty well. I also have a very square jaw, broad shoulders, and a shapely upper back, so stingy brims look fairly awful on me.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

Howard said:


> How could anyone not go outside either in the cold or in the heat without wearing a hat?


I can't make heads or tails of this comment Howard. You are asking how anyone could "*not* go outside ... *without* wearing a hat", so I take you question to be "How could anyone stay inside wearing a hat"?


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

dr.butcher said:


> I can't make heads or tails of this comment Howard. You are asking how anyone could "*not* go outside ... *without* wearing a hat", so I take you question to be "How could anyone stay inside wearing a hat"?


I believe you may have both had too much turkey.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Wild Turkey probably. Straight up no doubt.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

StylePurgatory said:


> Like almost everything, both of those look good on the right person. I'm 5'7" and 140 lbs, and wear a 36S. Skinny ties look well proportioned on me, and work pretty well. I also have a very square jaw, broad shoulders, and a shapely upper back, so stingy brims look fairly awful on me.


Exactly, it all depends on body shape, the way one carries oneself, etc. Though I assume the number of AAAC members who would wear a bolo tie would be in the low 10s, they do look quite decent on some people (I'd wear them if I was living in Arizona or New Mexico). A super skinny tie just looks like a fat bolo and can actually be pulled off. Preferably without a jacket, because adding a super skinny lapel to the mix can't help. In the case of Mr Caffrey it's just dressing him in the fashion of the moment.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

StylePurgatory said:


> I believe you may have both had too much turkey.


Unlikely. I'm an Australian vegetarian. No Thanksgiving for me. No turkey either.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

That last part is just so sad... Ok honestly I could give up turkey if I had to. I could get by on only meat from pigs.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

mhdena said:


> I don't like stingy brims or skinny ties.


Stingy is such a negative word. What about top hats? They have a very narrow brim, which I read was designed so they wouldn't fly off as easily as the tricorne did when horse riding. Not every had needs an Indy Jones style brim.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

dr.butcher said:


> Stingy is such a negative word. What about top hats? They have a very narrow brim, which I read was designed so they wouldn't fly off as easily as the tricorne did when horse riding. Not every had needs an Indy Jones style brim.


I think it just felt like a hip way to say "smaller" so people adopted it. Though, stingy brims would be 1.5" or so - my wide brimmed hats are only 2" - and I think my top hat has a 2" brim along the sides, and 1.5" front and back. The stiffness also makes it appear larger, because the brim's lateral apex stays in place.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Listen, when/if I say I don't like something, if you do great, you wear that, I won't.

I don't need/like a top hat either, let those who do wear them.

In case you hadn't noticed, its OK not to be in lock step.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Bjorn said:


> Are you saying that hat is substantially different from a 'real' dress hat, as a zoot suit is from a BB suit?
> 
> I'm thinking that I'm not making an analogy, whereas that would be an analogy.
> 
> ...


I'm saying, baseball "hat" is a hat, toque is a "hat", watch cap is a "hat", dress up hat, fedora, is a "hat", by definition, all are hats. I would not equate baseball "hat" or the others in the context of this thread a "dress up hat" and as such "substantially different". I did not point to the fedora lounge to make my argument. They do what they do, we profess to do what we do. I'm not putting them down nor would I pull them into this discussion to fortify my position, you did, making a comparison to what they do as the same as what we do, therefore my Zoot suit versus BB suit comparison.

Tracy, a cartoon character's hat? Inspector Gadget's hat? are the real deal?

Tracy, a cartoon character's hat, Inspector Gadget's are the real deal? Now James Bond? Who next?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

EclecticSr. said:


> I'm saying, baseball "hat" is a hat, toque is a "hat", watch cap is a "hat", dress up hat, fedora, is a "hat", by definition, all are hats. I would not equate baseball "hat" or the others in the context of this thread a "dress up hat" and as such "substantially different". I did not point to the fedora lounge to make my argument. They do what they do, we profess to do what we do. I'm not putting them down nor would I pull them into this discussion to fortify my position, you did, making a comparison to what they do as the same as what we do, therefore my Zoot suit versus BB suit comparison.
> 
> Tracy, a cartoon character's hat? Inspector Gadget's hat? are the real deal?
> 
> Tracy, a cartoon character's hat, Inspector Gadget's are the real deal? Now James Bond? Who next?


I don't get it. I think the FL was brought into this before my post. I was simply saying that, in reply to your analogy of zoot/bb suit, the characters mentioned previously above (Tracy and Gadget) both wore actual dress hats. The point would be that a zoot suit looks substantially different from a bb suit (most anyway  whereas Dick Tracy's hat IS a dress hat as referenced here. It IS a fedora, in my understanding. So bb suits are relatively safe from zoot suit territory.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Bjorn said:


> I think I'll stand by my sentiments, the above notwithstanding. A visit to the Fedora lounge does not give evidence to the contrary, quite the opposite in many cases.
> View attachment 13442


Who's reference is this?

Dick Tracy's hat, born of a cartoon.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

filfoster said:


> Y'all need to broaden your minds a skoch. You hat haters and skeptics need to drop by the Fedora Lounge www.fedoralounge.com
> 
> I get some of the sentiment about 'costumey' but for many of us, a well-chosen fedora looks right and proper. At least you'll have the decency to snicker behind our backs, won't you?


But before that, there was this. ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^I suspect that many of us, while going through our daily lives, give our associates so many competing reasons to smile and perhaps snicker just a bit, their reaction to our respective choice of Fedoras should be but the least of our concerns! LOL.  Gentlemen (and Ladies), wear your lid(s) and enjoy them...there really are no worries.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^I suspect that many of us, while going through our daily lives, give our associates so many competing reasons to smile and perhaps snicker just a bit, their reaction to our respective choice of Fedoras should be but the least of our concerns! LOL.  Gentlemen (and Ladies), wear your lid(s) and enjoy them...there really are no worries.


I think even my tailor might think I care too much about little details. But ... my new suit looks pretty awesome!


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Bjorn said:


> But before that, there was this. ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fine, I read through, but I was responding to forsberg regarding your reference to them. As I stated. I wouldn't point to the FL to make a positive or negative argument for wearing hats. Nothing against them, they are into their thing, we're into ours. If some wish to wear hats as costume, combined with costume dress, they can have at it. But to point to that forum and what they do as an argument against wearing hats by those of us you do it for different reasons that are far removed from costume triggered my Zoot suit comment. Hope I've cleared that up


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

EclecticSr. said:


> Fine, I read through, but I was responding to forsberg regarding your reference to them. As I stated. I wouldn't point to the FL to make a positive or negative argument for wearing hats. Nothing against them, they are into their thing, we're into ours. If some wish to wear hats as costume, combined with costume dress, they can have at it. But to point to that forum and what they do as an argument against wearing hats by those of us you do it for different reasons that are far removed from costume triggered my Zoot suit comment. Hope I've cleared that up


Sorry if I caused offense, that was not intended, & agreed 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Bjorn said:


> Sorry if I caused offense, that was not intended, & agreed
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No offense caused or taken, nor was any intended on my part. The forum is for the exchange of ideas, debate and air our views, pro and con on issues. If we all agreed on every issue this would be a boring place. You Sir have a great day.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

StylePurgatory said:


> I think it just felt like a hip way to say "smaller" so people adopted it. Though, stingy brims would be 1.5" or so - my wide brimmed hats are only 2" - and I think my top hat has a 2" brim along the sides, and 1.5" front and back. The stiffness also makes it appear larger, because the brim's lateral apex stays in place.


A Vietnam veteran once commented on my "Stingy-Brim" (not really a stingy brim since it has two inches on the brim; perhaps because I was wearing a skinny tie that day) and said that his father had one, but this shows that the term "Stingy-Brim" is nothing new.

-Quetzal


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^I suspect that many of us, while going through our daily lives, give our associates so many competing reasons to smile and perhaps snicker just a bit, their reaction to our respective choice of Fedoras should be but the least of our concerns! LOL.  Gentlemen (and Ladies), wear your lid(s) and enjoy them...there really are no worries.


What I would give for women to wear REAL hats these days! With their dresses and gloves, of course.

-Quetzal


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

There was a thread on the FL regarding ladies in gentlemen's fedoras. Initially it was most respectable and laudatory of the gorgeous women who had now and again worn a man's fedora to the applause of many. Unfortunately it started going in a direction that would eventually lead to gorgeous women wearing _nothing but_ a man's fedora and the mods killed it. Pity, really. Stars from the '30's through the '50's looked really stunning in men's hats.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Oldsarge said:


> There was a thread on the FL regarding ladies in gentlemen's fedoras. Initially it was most respectable and laudatory of the gorgeous women who had now and again worn a man's fedora to the applause of many. Unfortunately it started going in a direction that would eventually lead to gorgeous women wearing _nothing but_ a man's fedora and the mods killed it. Pity, really. Stars from the '30's through the '50's looked really stunning in men's hats.


 Women exuding confidence in their appearance that transgressed the hat, yet the hat brought their appeal to another level.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

dr.butcher said:


> I can't make heads or tails of this comment Howard. You are asking how anyone could "*not* go outside ... *without* wearing a hat", so I take you question to be "How could anyone stay inside wearing a hat"?


What I'm saying is I see people outside without wearing a hat when it's either in the Summer when some people should be wearing a hat or when it's cold, they should be wearing cap or something to keep their head warm.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Oldsarge said:


> There was a thread on the FL regarding ladies in gentlemen's fedoras. Initially it was most respectable and laudatory of the gorgeous women who had now and again worn a man's fedora to the applause of many. Unfortunately it started going in a direction that would eventually lead to gorgeous women wearing _nothing but_ a man's fedora and the mods killed it. Pity, really. Stars from the '30's through the '50's looked really stunning in men's hats.


But as we all know, sex and nudity didn't exist prior to the 1960s and men ALWAYS wore suits, even in the shower. Here, Cary Grant upholds those dying standards in 1963.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Naturally this thread has prompted me to consider buying a new hat. Any suggestions for wide-brimmed fedoras in NYC?


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Bencraft in Brooklyn has a big selection and the best prices I've seen for Borsalino, Stetson , etc.

If you're in Chicago go to Optimo, some think the very best made, 

Or you can go custom, Art Fawcett, Black Sheep Hat Works, are a few.

Optimo, Fawcett, and Black Sheep are Beaver felt, most at Bencraft are Rabbit felt.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

mhdena said:


> Bencraft in Brooklyn has a big selection and the best prices I've seen for Borsalino, Stetson , etc.
> 
> If you're in Chicago go to Optimo, some think the very best made,
> 
> ...


All of the above. However if your going to be in Manhattan only, try JJ hats, They recently introduced a new line from Spain, beauties, a bit pricier but if your in the City stop by

Bencraft has two locations, both in Brooklyn, best prices on Borsalino. In Connecticut there's DelMonico, 15% of today online. Graham Thompson and Art Fawcett are two of the best, they might have something OTR, at least Graham might, but they do mostly custom.

With the exception of Art (in my future ) and Back Sheep, Iv'e done business with the rest and then some, Really nice to deal with.

Good Luck.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Did a little shopping on the Black Friday sales today. Snagged a beautiful midnight blue Borsalino fedora for $80 :aportnoy:


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^RogerP, that's more than a good deal....you stole that hat at $80. Congratulations...
now we can't wait to see you putting it in service!


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

RogerP said:


> Did a little shopping on the Black Friday sales today. Snagged a beautiful midnight blue Borsalino fedora for $80 :aportnoy:


Not an easy color to come by in a Borso. and at $80.00, were you wearing a mask and holding a gun?  I have a Dobbs. Congratulations.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes, I almost felt guilty walking out of the store with it. Almost. :biggrin:


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Oldsarge said:


> There was a thread on the FL regarding ladies in gentlemen's fedoras. Initially it was most respectable and laudatory of the gorgeous women who had now and again worn a man's fedora to the applause of many. Unfortunately it started going in a direction that would eventually lead to gorgeous women wearing _nothing but_ a man's fedora and the mods killed it. Pity, really. Stars from the '30's through the '50's looked really stunning in men's hats.


I know, I posted on it some time ago, but I mean hats designed for women, like the Pill-Box and its countless variations (just as the Fedora has many). Sure, they may have looked snazzy wearing a man's hat, but that's because they WERE men's hats, which was probably half of the appeal. Far too many "hats" that women wear are cheap paper things in the shape of a poorly-blocked stingy-brim or a cap made of cotton or cheap wool, both of which are strictly for men (I'm not saying that women SHOULDN'T wear them, but there are far better choices designed to accompany a lady's clothes).

-Quetzal


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## Bradley.Kohr.II (Oct 12, 2012)

A) I think a large part of it is that the quality of most hats is very poor - and the fitting is worse. Far too many young men are wearing hats with absurdly small brims, etc. Custom made ones, of pure beaver, etc aren't all "that" high, given a man only needs very few of them, and they should last a very long time, if well-made. (My father's cattleman is, considerably, older than I am.)

B) The young men look awkward, because they feel awkward. They aren't from a background w. hats, so they don't treat them about the same as they treat a jacket - and I don't know why. Hats, in general, make life more comfortable.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

Just broke out my Barbisio for the first time this season. If others don't care for it, they are more than welcome not to wear one....

https://imageshack.com/i/f0sT6zIGj


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^ Cool stuff my hat brother! Here's a cross post from WAYWRN:


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## filfoster (Aug 23, 2011)

Bradley.Kohr.II said:


> A) I think a large part of it is that the quality of most hats is very poor - and the fitting is worse. Far too many young men are wearing hats with absurdly small brims, etc. Custom made ones, of pure beaver, etc aren't all "that" high, given a man only needs very few of them, and they should last a very long time, if well-made. (My father's cattleman is, considerably, older than I am.)
> 
> B) The young men look awkward, because they feel awkward. They aren't from a background w. hats, so they don't treat them about the same as they treat a jacket - and I don't know why. Hats, in general, make life more comfortable.


I agree with B) but there are many high-quality 'dress' hats available. In Cincinnati, Gus Miller at Batsakes has a huge assortment of wonderful hats, including his own custom makes. I have purchased Dobbs, Mallory, Mayser and Borsalino from him. I have also bought from Australia, Akubra hats and been impressed with the speed of delivery and the quality of those hats.

Wearing a Jaxon gray fedora today and I guess I now look grizzled enough that no one snickers. But no one has offered to help me across the street either.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Bradley.Kohr.II said:


> A) I think a large part of it is that the quality of most hats is very poor - and the fitting is worse. Far too many young men are wearing hats with absurdly small brims, etc. Custom made ones, of pure beaver, etc aren't all "that" high, given a man only needs very few of them, and they should last a very long time, if well-made. (My father's cattleman is, considerably, older than I am.)
> 
> B) The young men look awkward, because they feel awkward. They aren't from a background w. hats, so they don't treat them about the same as they treat a jacket - and I don't know why. Hats, in general, make life more comfortable.


Do not agree with some of (A). There are many fine hats out there, and as many makers, trust me I know. My Stetson cattleman may not be older than you, but maybe as old and looks brand new. Sure there are poor quality hats, as with anything else, but good quality still exists. I'm almost embarrassed to admit to how many hats I own.....

Agree with (B)


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

justonemore said:


> Just broke out my Barbisio for the first time this season. If others don't care for it, they are more than welcome not to wear one....
> 
> https://imageshack.com/i/f0sT6zIGj


Barbisio seems to be making their presence known again. My barby dates to the late seventies and still going strong.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

RogerP said:


> ^^^ Cool stuff my hat brother! Here's a cross post from WAYWRN:
> 
> [/QUOTE
> 
> If one needed to make an argument for wearing a hat today, one need not look any further than the example Roger provides here.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

By the way, ran across this today if anyone is interested........ my size but brim too narrow for me, seller says it's wool, given it's by Barbisio that might be in error. Just thought I'd throw it out there.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

justonemore said:


> Just broke out my Barbisio for the first time this season. If others don't care for it, they are more than welcome not to wear one...


Excellent, justonemore!


EclecticSr. said:


> If one needed to make an argument for wearing a hat today, one need not look any further than the example Roger provides here.


Absolutely!


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## Bradley.Kohr.II (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm sure there are good hat makers - my Stetson is very poorly made, but I bought it in HS, and its mostly rabbit.

A major change, according to a hat maker - I forgot the name, but his shop is on Richmond in Houston. They've been around for generations -, is that, years ago, they could buy grades of beaver felt. Now, there is just the one base grade of it, available to them, with other makers trying blends of chinchilla and beaver, etc to try to replicate the old, top quality beaver felt.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

The very toughest felt, the stuff the Park Rangers' campaign hats used to be (and still may be) made of is nutria fur. It's not as soft and smooth as beaver but it wears like iron.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

I own some beautiful hats, favoring fedoras and including this panama that saved me from heatstroke at the New Orleans Jazz Fest...










I wish I could wear my hats more, but the practicality of where to put them when out is a limiting factor - hat racks aren't found in restaurants or bars any more, and I shudder to think what might happen if I set it on the table.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^ Lookin' good!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Grayson said:


> I own some beautiful hats, favoring fedoras and including this panama that saved me from heatstroke at the New Orleans Jazz Fest...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lookin sharp Grayson.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

This was taken last week's Thanksgiving dinner at my friend's house.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Howard, you seem to be getting more handsome with age.


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## GWW (Jan 3, 2014)

Howard said:


> This was taken last week's Thanksgiving dinner at my friend's house.


Which one are you? The one with the tie I assume?

Now linking threads: a sport coat could be worn very well with an outfit like this 

And take off your cap when inside; no matter how good it looks, it's bad manners to keep it on


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^

Umm. Are you not wearing a hat indoors on your avatar?


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## GWW (Jan 3, 2014)

Shaver said:


> ^
> 
> Umm. Are you not wearing a hat indoors on your avatar?


:icon_pale:

Dammit! I am.... :icon_peaceplease:

Looks like another avatar's in order.


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

I also find this frustrating. Fedoras look great, but they are hard to transport and store. I've found the Ivy flat cap to suit my needs best. I can toss it in the briefcase without worry.



Grayson said:


> I wish I could wear my hats more, but the practicality of where to put them when out is a limiting factor - hat racks aren't found in restaurants or bars any more, and I shudder to think what might happen if I set it on the table.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Absolutely true. When you need a stylish head covering that fits with the degenerate contemporary scene, it's hard to beat a good flat cap. Much as I love a fedora, the only place where I can guarantee a hat rack these days is my new barber's shop. Very old school/hipster. An odd combination, perhaps but he trims with a straight razor and there's a hat rack in the corner across from the spinning barber pole.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

It's not as much a problem in the winter when an overcoat is worn; the few restaurants that I dine usually offer to take my coat and hat, hanging it or storing it in a safe location. In fact, I can guarantee that those places only have self-made cloakrooms because of me ("Hey, there's that guy with the 'fedora hat' again..."). In the summer, they don't seem to care what happens. I do not trust the coat racks that are immediately at the entrance and cannot be seen when seated (even before I bought my hat); fortunately, since I am small, I can easily place my coat and hat in the corner, at least in booths.

As to bars, I don't think that they ever had hat and coat racks, except for employees; even in paintings, when men wore three-cornered hats, they were worn indoors or just set on the table right beside them, and plenty of men wore their overcoats when indoors (though the bar managers turn the heat up far too often in the winter, compared to the bars of yore). Bars have a casual environment, so I would presume that it is acceptable to leave one's hat on while indoors (I don't, but with today's patrons, I may begin too...)

-Quetzal


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Never hats on inside. That's a shooting offense. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Shaver said:


> Howard, you seem to be getting more handsome with age.


Thanks and I'm going to be 41 in a few months.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

GWW said:


> Which one are you? The one with the tie I assume?
> 
> Now linking threads: a sport coat could be worn very well with an outfit like this
> 
> And take off your cap when inside; no matter how good it looks, it's bad manners to keep it on


speaking of sport coats I have my sport coat at the cleaners. And as for the hat, my hair is a mess and as much as I try to comb it I just can't seem to hide my bald spot


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## Veblen (Aug 18, 2014)

Bjorn said:


> Never hats on inside. That's a shooting offense.


Hm. I seem to recall that leaving one's outerwear (also coats) on was considered acceptable at establishments catering to transitory customers like diners, railway station lunch counters and such, where it was assumed that you weren't there to truly enjoy a meal but rather just to grab a quick bite and then be on your way again. Though that's very much second-hand knowledge for me.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

'Inside' becomes a matter of debate in the modern age. Does one carry one's hat around for an entire day's shopping in an inclosed mall? The original rule was no hats indoors in either a private home, at table or in a place of worship. With that I fully concur. However as definitions change trying to hold to a rigid standard becomes difficult bordering on impossible. Not Rules, gentlemen, Guidelines.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Oldsarge said:


> 'Inside' becomes a matter of debate in the modern age. Does one carry one's hat around for an entire day's shopping in an inclosed mall? The original rule was no hats indoors in either a private home, at table or in a place of worship. With that I fully concur. However as definitions change trying to hold to a rigid standard becomes difficult bordering on impossible. Not Rules, gentlemen, Guidelines.


Precisely. These "rules" are part of the internet and the lack of knowledge by most people, and the "ALWAYS remove when indoors" is taken too literal; one time at the mall, I saw this guy carrying a hat in his hand for the entire duration that he was inside (I was volunteering for an event, so I saw the same people walk in and out of the mall).

I learned "hat etiquette" from my grandmother; grandpa passed away too early for me to meet him, but he apparently wore a black rabbit-fur stingy-brim with a red feather from the 1950s as a young man until around 1972, switching it for a ball cap since he was a mechanic. She told me that it could indeed be kept on indoors (excluding the obvious situations). Otherwise, I observe what men in movies would have done, though I feel that some movies from the 1930s and the 1940s have actors keeping their hats on at all times for fashionable purposes.

-Quetzal


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

I actually came up with a creative solution. Last night the female bartender at my favorite establishment agreed to wear my hat for the length of my stay. It kept my hat safe from accidents, prominently displayed, and not easily forgotten. :thumbs-up:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Another cross post for the "Men in Hats" series.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Grayson said:


> I actually came up with a creative solution. Last night the female bartender at my favorite establishment agreed to wear my hat for the length of my stay. It kept my hat safe from accidents, prominently displayed, and not easily forgotten. :thumbs-up:


And got her some compliments, I'll bet. I love women in men's hats.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

RogerP said:


> Another cross post for the "Men in Hats" series.


As Nero Wolfe would have observed, "Satisfactory. _Most_ satisfactory!"


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

RogerP said:


> Another cross post for the "Men in Hats" series.


Grand Slam.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Indeed, RogerP is the perfect example of a man who wears his clothes, rather than it being the other way around. A model comfortable in their own skin can make whatever they wear look good and RogerP does wear that hat, that scarf and that jacket as if they were made specifically to be worn by him! Very nicely done. :thumbs-up:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Oldsarge said:


> As Nero Wolfe would have observed, "Satisfactory. _Most_ satisfactory!"





EclecticSr. said:


> Grand Slam.





eagle2250 said:


> ^^Indeed, RogerP is the perfect example of a man who wears his clothes, rather than it being the other way around. A model comfortable in their own skin can make whatever they wear look good and RogerP does wear that hat, that scarf and that jacket as if they were made specifically to be worn by him! Very nicely done. :thumbs-up:


Thank you all for your kind comments.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Oldsarge said:


> 'Inside' becomes a matter of debate in the modern age. Does one carry one's hat around for an entire day's shopping in an inclosed mall? The original rule was no hats indoors in either a private home, at table or in a place of worship. With that I fully concur. However as definitions change trying to hold to a rigid standard becomes difficult bordering on impossible. Not Rules, gentlemen, Guidelines.


It depends on the weather outside.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

RogerP said:


> Another cross post for the "Men in Hats" series.


You're looking quite sharp.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

As to hats inside, I generally go with "does this feel like a public, or private space?" Smaller shops, I take it off normally, but in larger ones, like department stores, I often leave it on. It took a while, but I'm starting to just have a feel for it. I will also often take it off during a conversation with sales staff.


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## Mute (Apr 3, 2005)

RogerP said:


> Another cross post for the "Men in Hats" series.


I'm personally not a flat cap person, but you rock that thing good.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Cheers gents.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Uh, what color are those trousers?


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Dark brown.


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## momsdoc (Sep 19, 2013)

Whew, another bullet dodged.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

StylePurgatory said:


> As to hats inside, I generally go with "does this feel like a public, or private space?" Smaller shops, I take it off normally, but in larger ones, like department stores, I often leave it on. It took a while, but I'm starting to just have a feel for it. I will also often take it off during a conversation with sales staff.


I often keep it on depending on the weather. But if it's a public place I must take it off.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Another situation that too many men neglect is during a picture. So many "Fedoras" (apparently "Fedora" is a slang word for the obnoxious try-hards who wear those cheaply-made hats, available, of course, at your nearest Target) keep them on (until I tell them to take it off). Granted, there's nowhere to put them except on one's lap.

But what about the rows that are low, with backrests high enough to cover the hat? Would it be appropriate to leave them on? What of caps? I still take mine off (and will continue to do so regardless of the consensus), but should they be removed?

-Quetzal


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Caps don't matter much, since they aren't taller than one's head, and they have no rear brim. Wearing a brimmed hat during a movie seems silly, since you'll ultimately muss up the back of the brim - damage it on a stiff hat.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

You forgot the most obvious thing -- annoy fellow theatregoers! At only 6'1 I still block out the vision of anyone shorter than me at modern movie theatres.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Jovan said:


> You forgot the most obvious thing -- annoy fellow theatregoers! At only 6'1 I still block out the vision of anyone shorter than me at modern movie theatres.


That's precisely why a cap makes no difference, as it adds no height. This also reminds me... Why are your IMAX seats not staggered, Collosus Langley?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Because I don't waste money going to IMAX theatres?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Jovan said:


> You forgot the most obvious thing -- annoy fellow theatregoers! At only 6'1 I still block out the vision of anyone shorter than me at modern movie theatres.


Have you thought about taking the hat off?


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## JArmstrong (Nov 20, 2014)

I greatly envy those who can wear hats without looking like a dunce. I look ridiculous in headgear of any kind for some reason..........something I'll just have to suffer if my hair gets any thinner and I want to avoid skin cancer.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Howard said:


> Have you thought about taking the hat off?


:icon_headagainstwal


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Jovan said:


> Because I don't waste money going to IMAX theatres?


It was well worth it for Interstellar.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

JArmstrong said:


> I greatly envy those who can wear hats without looking like a dunce. I look ridiculous in headgear of any kind for some reason..........something I'll just have to suffer if my hair gets any thinner and I want to avoid skin cancer.


I'm betting that you could wear a hat much more elegantly than you imagine. It seems sometimes that the harshest judgments levied against us are those we impose on our selves! As for the protective value of headgear, a thick head of hair does not necessarily protect our faces, necks and ears from the damaging effects of the sun's rays!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

JArmstrong said:


> I greatly envy those who can wear hats without looking like a dunce. I look ridiculous in headgear of any kind for some reason..........something I'll just have to suffer if my hair gets any thinner and I want to avoid skin cancer.


What about when the weather gets colder, How are you going to protect yourself and your head?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Good point, Howard. And may I point out that anyone, _anyone _looks better in a hat than they do in a hoodie?


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

JArmstrong said:


> I greatly envy those who can wear hats without looking like a dunce. I look ridiculous in headgear of any kind for some reason..........something I'll just have to suffer if my hair gets any thinner and I want to avoid skin cancer.


This is something that is far too often said. Nobody can "pull a hat off"; that would be the same as saying that they couldn't "pull a suit off"; granted, people tell me both all the time (I may not even look good in either, but I choose to wear them anyway because they are a part of my mentality), which is sad to hear that both hats and suits are now clothes designed for people with "certain attitudes", in the opinion of the world.

-Quetzal


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Quetzal said:


> Another situation that too many men neglect is during a picture. So many "Fedoras" (apparently "Fedora" is a slang word for the obnoxious try-hards who wear those cheaply-made hats, available, of course, at your nearest Target) keep them on (until I tell them to take it off). Granted, there's nowhere to put them except on one's lap.
> 
> But what about the rows that are low, with backrests high enough to cover the hat? Would it be appropriate to leave them on? What of caps? I still take mine off (and will continue to do so regardless of the consensus), but should they be removed?
> 
> -Quetzal


In the car?? Why does it even matter. If you won't smash your hat by wearing it, you can. If you will smash your hat, take it off. If you want to wear it and won't smash it, wear it. If you don't want to wear it. Take it off.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

*"I'm not even selling hats. I'm selling romance."*

This on Humans of New York 2 day ago: https://www.humansofnewyork.com/post/105058223471/im-the-lead-designer-for-stetson-hats-ive










The quote under it read: "I'm the lead designer for Stetson hats. I've never met someone as crazy about hats as me. My goal in life is for everyone to understand that there is a hat out there for them. I'm not even selling hats. I'm selling romance."


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

There's a hat in that pic? I can't get past the trench coat that looks like it's hiding a whole other person and the Hammer pants.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Isn't that Matt Deckard from The Fedora Lounge (and, possibly, this forum as well)?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Say it isn't so, Joe!

Is that a sheepskin draped around the collar and over the shoulders of that Trench? If so, an odd look, eh? :icon_scratch:

PS: The fedora is the best worn component of his rig!


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

That is Matt, He seems to have put on even more weight since last I saw a photo of him about a couple of years ago. Matt is into vintage nostalgia, if that's the proper term. I'm glad to see he landed a position with Stetson. He started his own line a few years ago, hats and clothing, but it seems it petered out, nothing at all (except the hat ) like he's wearing in this photo. He was putting out a very nice product as far as the hats, can't speak to the clothing line. shame it didn't work out. I believe he's still active on this forum.
I wish him the best in this new venture.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

EclecticSr. said:


> That is Matt, He seems to have put on even more weight since last I saw a photo of him about a couple of years ago. Matt is into vintage nostalgia, if that's the proper term. I'm glad to see he landed a position with Stetson. He started his own line a few years ago, hats and clothing, but it seems it petered out, nothing at all (except the hat ) like he's wearing in this photo. He was putting out a very nice product as far as the hats, can't speak to the clothing line. shame it didn't work out. I believe he's still active on this forum.
> I wish him the best in this new venture.


I thought so. I did a little searching and I don't think he's gained as much weight as that photo would make you think. Here are some pics from that same visit to NYC where he was interviewed by HONY; https://www.thefedoralounge.com/sho...kard-on-HONY&p=1876118&viewfull=1#post1876118









Just goes to show you how drastically a poorly fitting garment can negatively alter your appearance.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

hardline_42 said:


> I thought so. I did a little searching and I don't think he's gained as much weight as that photo would make you think. Here are some pics from that same visit to NYC where he was interviewed by HONY; https://www.thefedoralounge.com/sho...kard-on-HONY&p=1876118&viewfull=1#post1876118
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which begs the question, what is that coat lined with? Your photo looks more like I remember him, though he has admitted on occasion to weight fluctuations.Thanks for the update.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

StylePurgatory said:


> It was well worth it for Interstellar.


I have to agree - though it didn't make the sound any clearer...


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Say it isn't so, Joe!
> 
> Is that a sheepskin draped around the collar and over the shoulders of that Trench? If so, an odd look, eh? :icon_scratch:
> 
> PS: The fedora is the best worn component of his rig!


I wonder if it is a hood that unzips down the back, and then lies flat on the shoulders.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Oldsarge said:


> Good point, Howard. And may I point out that anyone, _anyone _looks better in a hat than they do in a hoodie?


A hoodie looks like you didn't put any effort in what you were putting on.


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## Donnie (Nov 14, 2014)

eagle2250 said:


> I'm betting that you could wear a hat much more elegantly than you imagine. It seems sometimes that the harshest judgments levied against us are those we impose on our selves! As for the protective value of headgear, a thick head of hair does not necessarily protect our faces, necks and ears from the damaging effects of the sun's rays!


The exposed scalp where the hair is parted is often neglected when sunscreen is applied. A hat covers that right up.

Sweet wife doesn't think hats look good on me - she says they make my face look too long or some crazy thing like that. However, there is a family-owned hat shop in Fort Worth that has been in business since 1911 and in a later phase of building up my wardrobe I plan to buy a hat or two from them whether anyone likes it or not.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Well played, that man. The wife will grow accustomed to the look. Besides the staff at a well-established hat shop will help you find the proper dimensioned hat to enhance your appearance.


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

With reference to Matt Deckard's photo from HONY, the full-length shot is unflattering in the extreme. Though the gentleman in question has put on weight in the last few years, I had dinner with him this past summer, and he wasn't anywhere nearly that mountainous-looking, though some weight loss would be beneficial to both his appearance and his health. He was most enjoyable company, and, after a few libations, he most enthusiastically measured my skull with a hat in mind. I may have the chance to meet him again this winter - the acquaintance who put together our dinner party is supposed to be back in town for the menswear shows next month, and had said that he would arrange a gathering again when in town.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

upr_crust said:


> With reference to Matt Deckard's photo from HONY, the full-length shot is unflattering in the extreme. Though the gentleman in question has put on weight in the last few years, I had dinner with him this past summer, and he wasn't anywhere nearly that mountainous-looking, though some weight loss would be beneficial to both his appearance and his health. He was most enjoyable company, and, after a few libations, he most enthusiastically measured my skull with a hat in mind. I may have the chance to meet him again this winter - the acquaintance who put together our dinner party is supposed to be back in town for the menswear shows next month, and had said that he would arrange a gathering again when in town.


Never having had the pleasure of meeting him, I have however corresponded with him via email when I paced an order for one of his hats, ( his brand ) I found him very engaging and quite involved in the process. He is passionate about hats. Again, I do wish him the best.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> The exposed scalp where the hair is parted is often neglected when sunscreen is applied. A hat covers that right up.


or just find a hair-piece to cover up the spot.


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

Howard said:


> or just find a hair-piece to cover up the spot.


My "part" is somewhere in excess of six inches wide, and I do not believe that a hairpiece would be flattering - I prefer my baldness and my hats, thanks.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^ A hairpiece is never flattering and your hats rock.


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## memphislawyer (Mar 2, 2007)

I used to think I looked silly with a hat, but then, receiving compliments, I began to realize that my perception of me is just that, MY PERCEPTION. So I have opened up my mind to things that may be a bit out of my comfort zone. With fedoras, it seems that most everyone thinks I look good in them. And a couple of people that own them tell me so.

I had decided in my mind that my 2" brimmed hat, in light grey rabbit felt, was too short of a brim for me. Now, part of the reason I got it was that a hat maker had cut the brim too short for someone else, so he had this hat body all done up in a too-short brim for this guy and made me a deal. I did get to design the ribbon treatment. Now my first hat, a Stetson Saxon in caribou, is a 2" brim but it wears bigger. Don't ask me why, how or tell me that does not make sense, but it just seems that way. The light grey one seemed like a stingy, the Stetson normal. I have wanted to replace it for a year and well, I had a yen a couple of weeks back to sell it and get a new one. Well, before it sold, I determined in my mind to head on up to Mike Moore at Buckaroo Hatters for a new one. Seems like this is a yearly thing for me, about this time each year (well, last year it was around November, lol). I have the Caribou, which is medium grey, a brown hat and a silverbelly which wears to the taupe side. So I was going in, thinking graphite or steel or dark grey or maybe navy. One thing I appreciate about Mike is that he tells it like it is, and he told me navy did not seem right on me or was what I was wanting. He held up swatches and one tended to blue shades, but he had a hat in stock in my size that was charcoal grey. Ribbon edged and it had a thin ribbon. He told me that he could change it out to a 16 ligne and he did and it had a 2 5/8" brim. The first hat he did for me was 2 1/2" so I was good to go. Can't seem to take it off. Been thinking of selling my Stetson Saxon because, well, because it is not a Buckaroo is the only reason I can think of. It does have a non-leather sweatband and I may replace it but I do like the wider ribbon on the Stetson (2" or maybe an 18 ligne) and the brim snap to it just seems to suit me - seems more business like. So it may be a keeper. Anyway, it is always fun to go up to Mike's shop and they had Dickens Christmas on the town square, with everyone dressed up from that time period, hot apple cider given away, food in the little shops, and the place was bustling. Marlowe's was closed down - I had never eaten there - but Mike steered me to the Court Square Cafe where I had country fried steak, sweet tea (cut with unsweet) and veggies. Tried to talk my lady friend into a hat but she did not, but she did like wearing mine for a bit. Nice time was had. Saw some pugarees and may have to get up to Buckaroo come spring time to grab two or three to interchange with my Panama Bob Cuenca and my Buckaroo parbuntal straw hats.




One thing to be said - if you have ever had the ability to have a hat made for you, seems hard to go back to off-the-rack stuff. It's not necessarily a quality issue, which it can be, but a customization issue. You can pick the size of the brim, or change the swoop of the brim or the type of crown bash. You can make the hat with an underwelt, overwelt, no welt, and ribbon edge treatment and even a pencil curl. The biggest is the ability to choose ribbon colors, sizes and keeper treatments. My Buckaroo hats are also softer than Stetson. I have compared the hats that Buckaroo makes along with the one made by my now-sold hat and then others that people brought into Buckaroo and left behind. Mike has been doing it for years and it is evident in his sewing of the ribbons and in other lesser obvious places.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

upr_crust said:


> My "part" is somewhere in excess of six inches wide, and I do not believe that a hairpiece would be flattering - I prefer my baldness and my hats, thanks.


Don't you worry about balding or thinning or do you just accept it?


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## JArmstrong (Nov 20, 2014)

Howard said:


> Don't you worry about balding or thinning or do you just accept it?


 I can't speak for him but it doesn't bother me in the least anymore. At 19 when it initially started it was catastrophic to my confidence, but then one day I said the hell with it and grabbed the clippers. I'm a few months off of 26 now and I wouldn't regrow my formerly thick hair even if I could.

Now I just channel Mr Statham


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

JArmstrong said:


> I can't speak for him but it doesn't bother me in the least anymore. At 19 when it initially started it was catastrophic to my confidence, but then one day I said the hell with it and grabbed the clippers. I'm a few months off of 26 now and I wouldn't regrow my formerly thick hair even if I could.
> 
> Now I just channel Mr Statham


This. I remember that I had complained to a friend when, in my mid twenties, my hair had started to go. She suggested that I go volunteer for a week at a child cancer ward, and see if I still felt sorry for myself afterward. It was all that needed to be said.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

JArmstrong said:


> I can't speak for him but it doesn't bother me in the least anymore. At 19 when it initially started it was catastrophic to my confidence, but then one day I said the hell with it and grabbed the clippers. I'm a few months off of 26 now and I wouldn't regrow my formerly thick hair even if I could.
> 
> Now I just channel Mr Statham


It bothers me a bit, It gets harder each day trying to comb the part to one side when the bald spot keeps showing.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Howard, if you are loosing it, don't waste your time primping with comb overs. 
Have your barber clip it short...#000 guard for the sides and back and nothing more than 1/2" length on top. You will still look like you are losing your hair, but with those shades, you will also look to be a bit of a "Bad-a**!" :crazy:


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

And cultivate a bushy mustache or an ominous/villainous ironjaw beard. The ladies love it.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

Oldsarge said:


> And cultivate a bushy mustache or an ominous/villainous ironjaw beard. The ladies love it.


I suppose a Curly-Brim or some other Stiff-Brim would be the hat of choice...

-Quetzal


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

200 posts in and dress hats still=no. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Bjorn said:


> 200 posts in and dress hats still=no.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I demand the tabulation be given to Price-Waterhouse for a recount. I suspect some creative accounting going on here.:mad2:


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

EclecticSr. said:


> I demand the tabulation be given to Price-Waterhouse for a recount. I suspect some creative accounting going on here.:mad2:


A true and fair view required some adjustments be made. Several accounting principles had to be met. A simple vote, these economies were not 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Bjorn said:


> 200 posts in and dress hats still=no.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now how on earth did you come to this conclusion?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Jovan said:


> Now how on earth did you come to this conclusion?


Because none of the valid points against wearing them have been offset. It's still costumey for most guys that are simply not old enough to pull it off. And older guys sans hats do better. I think it's valid to pop into this thread every 150 posts or so to point that out.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

^^How old are you?


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Bjorn, you are once again confusing your subjective, personal preference with a rule of general application. Face it, all of your supposed "valid points against wearing them " resolve into "I don't like them " which isn't going to be offset by anything.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

^^+1^^


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

So now I'm an old man? I'm always told in a jokingly manner that I should have been born one-hundred years prior to my actual birth, but hearing this is a bit ridiculous.

Next I'm going hear it's acceptable and appropriate to wear the "tolerated" Baseball cap with a suit, like the renowned celebrity documentarian Michael Moore.

-Quetzal


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

RogerP said:


> Bjorn, you are once again confusing your subjective, personal preference with a rule of general application. Face it, all of your supposed "valid points against wearing them " resolve into "I don't like them " which isn't going to be offset by anything.


In that case, no non-subjective points 'in favor' of wearing them exist either. That door swings both ways.... I can acc pt the premise of there being no rules for the purpose of this discussion.

And I'm not arguing a general rule, simply that dress hats are a mine field for most guys. In this particular bubble, or the Fedora lounge, people can agree that it isn't so, but real world application will be a problem. It simply isn't sage advice to people in general to go ahead and wear dress hats. IMO...


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

mhdena said:


> ^^How old are you?


Mid thirties. So no dress hats for me...


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

It's astounding we're still on this, and no one has pointed out that the whole thing is quite simply a matter of doing what pleases you, and carrying on as though it is the most normal thing in the world. Suddenly, it becomes so to yourself, and those around you.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Bjorn said:


> In that case, no non-subjective points 'in favour' of wearing them exist either. That door swings both ways...


There is a very strong non-subjective point in favour of wearing headgear - protection against cold, rain and sun - and many wear headgear for this reason and for this reason only. Yes, this does not directly point to "dress up hats"; but surely a "dress-up" hat (unfortunate term, but that's the title of this thread) is the one to wear with a classical overcoat?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> It's astounding we're still on this, and no one has pointed out that the whole thing is quite simply a matter of doing what pleases you, and carrying on as though it is the most normal thing in the world. Suddenly, it becomes so to yourself, and those around you.


Yes, that can be true. True, also, is that you can mess up your career and/or social life by dressing outside of the norm.

I'm sure most people would argue against for example a tweed suit to an interview except for certain jobs (of course flannel shirts for San Francisco fashion start-ups but you get my point?).

One can go against the flow to a certain extent successfully, but dress hats is pushing it for most guys. If you get 500 000 things right, like upr does, then sure, add the right dress hat. If you are not batting in that category, then don't.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

williamson said:


> There is a very strong non-subjective point in favour of wearing headgear - protection against cold, rain and sun - and many wear headgear for this reason and for this reason only. Yes, this does not directly point to "dress up hats"; but surely a "dress-up" hat (unfortunate term, but that's the title of this thread) is the one to wear with a classical overcoat?


I'd lean more towards the easier to wear tweed cap perhaps, and towards not wearing a hat otherwise, unless firmly in the distinguished gent category. Fedoras or bowlers etc otherwise, might be pushing it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

williamson said:


> There is a very strong non-subjective point in favour of wearing headgear - protection against cold, rain and sun - and many wear headgear for this reason and for this reason only. Yes, this does not directly point to "dress up hats"; but surely a "dress-up" hat (unfortunate term, but that's the title of this thread) is the one to wear with a classical overcoat?


Entirely correct.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> In that case, no non-subjective points 'in favor' of wearing them exist either. That door swings both ways.... I can acc pt the premise of there being no rules for the purpose of this discussion.
> 
> *And I'm not arguing a general rule*, simply that dress hats are a mine field for most guys. In this particular bubble, or the Fedora lounge, people can agree that it isn't so, but real world application will be a problem. It simply isn't sage advice to people in general to go ahead and wear dress hats. IMO...


 When you say things like "200 posts in and dress hats still=no." you are most certainly proclaiming a general rule.

And the door doesn't swing both ways in this case. No-one here is advocating that dress hats _must_ be worn. Nor is anyone suggesting that all hats suit all wearers equally well. All that is being suggested in opposition to your categorical proclamation is that hats are a viable and legitimate menswear option, and that certain hats are better suited to certain types of dress.

It simply is not sage advice to warn people away from hats in general or dress hats in particular based on absolutely nothing more than your own personal preference. And holding forth both career destruction and social exclusion as a possible consequences of choosing to wear a hat is really quite ridiculous.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

RogerP said:


> When you say things like "200 posts in and dress hats still=no." you are most certainly proclaiming a general rule.
> 
> And the door doesn't swing both ways in this case. No-one here is advocating that dress hats _must_ be worn. Nor is anyone suggesting that all hats suit all wearers equally well. All that is being suggested in opposition to your categorical proclamation is that hats are a viable and legitimate menswear option, and that certain hats are better suited to certain types of dress.
> 
> It simply is not sage advice to warn people away from hats in general or dress hats in particular based on absolutely nothing more than your own personal preference. And holding forth both career destruction and social exclusion as a possible consequences of choosing to wear a hat is really quite ridiculous.


I disagree. The general suitability of dress hats has been proclaimed above, so door swinging...

I was not completely categorical either, I did allow for an age factor. If clothes are not a factor for getting a job, not for social successes, then what is the point of the topic at all? Or of the forum.

You simply find it ridiculous because you disagree.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RolandG (Mar 4, 2014)

EclecticSr. said:


> I demand the tabulation be given to *Price-Waterhouse* for a recount. I suspect some creative accounting going on here.:mad2:


No such thing. It's been PricewaterhouseCoopers since 1998.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

I find it ridiculous because it is ridiculous.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

RolandG said:


> No such thing. It's been PricewaterhouseCoopers since 1998.


Forgive me, thank you for that. My memory of them goes back several decades further than 1998.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Howard, if you are loosing it, don't waste your time primping with comb overs.
> Have your barber clip it short...#000 guard for the sides and back and nothing more than 1/2" length on top. You will still look like you are losing your hair, but with those shades, you will also look to be a bit of a "Bad-a**!" :crazy:


thinning hair is a genetic thing, My Father has it on top, I have it in the front. But he doesn't worry about it like I do a bit, I'm a bit of a worrywart.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Oldsarge said:


> And cultivate a bushy mustache or an ominous/villainous ironjaw beard. The ladies love it.


I'm no longer sporting anymore facial hair, I'm done with it, girls love the babyface facade. My friends say I resemble Tom Cruise.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

mhdena said:


> ^^How old are you?


I'm going to be 41 soon.


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

Bjorn said:


> Yes, that can be true. True, also, is that you can mess up your career and/or social life by dressing outside of the norm. I'm sure most people would argue against for example a tweed suit to an interview except for certain jobs (of course flannel shirts for San Francisco fashion start-ups but you get my point?). One can go against the flow to a certain extent successfully, but dress hats is pushing it for most guys. If you get 500 000 things right, like upr does, then sure, add the right dress hat. If you are not batting in that category, then don't. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am flattered that Bjorn thinks that I get 500,000 things right (though he did not articulate how many things I get wrong ). As for myself, I wear what we are calling "dress hats" (i.e. fedoras and Homburgs) for several reasons. First off, I need the insulation - Mother Nature has seen fit to remove the thatch from my skull. Second, I wear suits on a regular basis, with proper overcoats, and there are few style variants more galling to me than to see a man in a proper suit and overcoat wearing a baseball cap. (For headgear among men in the US, baseball caps seem to have been seriously exempted from the "no hat" rule.) Third, I happen both to look good in a "dress hat" (IMHO), and my mien and my age allow me the luxury of indulging my taste for them. I do understand the prejudice against younger men wearing proper hats - it is a very entrenched attitude. I know this for a fact when, a decade ago, when I first toyed with the idea of buying a Homburg, my late husband (some 23 years my senior - he would be 82 next month, were he alive) said to me "You're too young to wear a Homburg." It was only after he died that I figured that I was now old enough to pull one off.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

upr_crust said:


> I am flattered that Bjorn thinks that I get 500,000 things right (though he did not articulate how many things I get wrong ). As for myself, I wear what we are calling "dress hats" (i.e. fedoras and Homburgs) for several reasons. First off, I need the insulation - Mother Nature has seen fit to remove the thatch from my skull. Second, I wear suits on a regular basis, with proper overcoats, and there are few style variants more galling to me than to see a man in a proper suit and overcoat wearing a baseball cap. (For headgear among men in the US, baseball caps seem to have been seriously exempted from the "no hat" rule.) Third, I happen both to look good in a "dress hat" (IMHO), and my mien and my age allow me the luxury of indulging my taste for them. I do understand the prejudice against younger men wearing proper hats - it is a very entrenched attitude. I know this for a fact when, a decade ago, when I first toyed with the idea of buying a Homburg, my late husband (some 23 years my senior - he would be 82 next month, were he alive) said to me "You're too young to wear a Homburg." It was only after he died that I figured that I was now old enough to pull one off.


Sorry. Dress hats still = no. None of the valid points against wearing them have been offset. Ditch your Homburg and grab a baseball cap. :rolleyes2: Might as well go ahead and wear it backwards.

I wonder how I possibly managed both a successful career and an enjoyable social life while wearing hats since my late twenties (which not coincidentally, is the age at which the hair on my head began bid me farewell)? Must have been a one-in-a-million long shot. Then again, I've never even heard of any actual circumstance where the choice of wearing a dress hat brought about the dire consequences suggested by Bjorn.

In direct contrast, year in and year out I have received more compliments from both co-workers and complete strangers (men and women alike) on my hats than on my suits and shoes combined.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

We may be trying to bridge a cultural difference here, and I fear we aren't having a lot of success. Though Sweden gets plenty cold it lacks the furnace like summers central North America suffers (as does the southern Left Coast, BTW). So it may well be that Bjorn is thinking from a N. European point of view while the rest of us are taking an American tack. Such are the vagaries of style . . .


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> Yes, that can be true. True, also, is that you can mess up your career and/or social life by dressing outside of the norm.
> 
> I'm sure most people would argue against for example a tweed suit to an interview except for certain jobs (of course flannel shirts for San Francisco fashion start-ups but you get my point?).
> 
> ...


Who has argued for wearing a hat to an interview, if it would seem out of place? Brown shoes could carry risk at an interview, for God's sake. And no, wearing a hat, as outerwear, with a suit will not mess up your career. That's utterly preposterous.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> I'd lean more towards the easier to wear tweed cap perhaps, and towards not wearing a hat otherwise, unless firmly in the distinguished gent category. Fedoras or bowlers etc otherwise, might be pushing it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This can be done well, but these are actually work caps, and don't compliment a suit as well as a felt hat, and for those of us that wear hats AND have hair, the lack of space inside the crown mattes the hair, and would require one to take a hairbrush to work, whereas a conservative haircut is accommodated quite well by a felt hat (or a silk one, for that matter). They are, however, quite popular at the moment, and have been gaining popularity steadily for over a decade. So, it would seem you espouse fashionable hats; shall we all wear 2.5" lapels to work, too?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Roger is right about most things. I will say for Roger, since he is clearly very stylish, he probably was able to get away with dress hats at any age.

I agree with Bjorn on this one, though. When few if any wear an article of clothing like a hat, it can make you stand out. Standing out and violating normal clothing norms can damage your career by making you look eccentric.

(I say this as I'm the only one in the office with a tie (no sport coat) and it's a Christmas tie to boot.) However, I've worked in a small family business for 17 years and am 58 years old. If we had an important meeting today, I would probably be either in just dress shirt or jacket/tie after checking with the boss what he was wearing if he was going to be in the meeting, too. There is only one Christmas tie (not obvious except for the colors) that I would consider.

Also, I will guess that from the way Roger writes, he probably is a standout attorney, which gives him "cred" to do as he wishes erring on the side of extra dressiness. Being a standout means that people respect you enough to give you some latitude. Being a more average employee means that you have to try harder to fit in - - Roger did that make sense??

Roger, I apologize for the word "err" but a better one is not coming to me. I know you are not erring when you wear a hat (like a typo is an error, for instance). The better word is escaping me for now; I mean no insult.


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## Natty Beau (Apr 29, 2014)

It's probably a cultural difference. Americans are fairly accepting of different styles of dress, under the same roof.

I stopped trying to look like everyone else when I turned 25 and I'm glad I did. So far no drawbacks, only pay offs.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

RogerP said:


> Sorry. Dress hats still = no. None of the valid points against wearing them have been offset. Ditch your Homburg and grab a baseball cap. :rolleyes2: Might as well go ahead and wear it backwards.
> 
> I wonder how I possibly managed both a successful career and an enjoyable social life while wearing hats since my late twenties (which not coincidentally, is the age at which the hair on my head began bid me farewell)? Must have been a one-in-a-million long shot. Then again, I've never even heard of any actual circumstance where the choice of wearing a dress hat brought about the dire consequences suggested by Bjorn.
> 
> In direct contrast, year in and year out I have received more compliments from both co-workers and complete strangers (men and women alike) on my hats than on my suits and shoes combined.


I had to pinch myself to make sure I was awake, for a second I thought I wrote this..^^^^

1- began wearing hats in my twenties, started to lose my hair by thirty, would not have made a difference.
2- Wore a a hat, with suit of course, to 2 job interviews, landed both on the spot, while I had the requirements the hat no negative effect, in fact, first interview, the interviewer was the owner of the Corp. who later asked where he, and an attorney for the firm might purchase a hat similar to mine. A career that lasted 40+years with advancements along the way, wearing hats all the way. 
3- My wearing of hats if anything enhanced my social life, still does, reference compliments above, Rogers post.

Are upr, Roger, myself the exceptions? Perhaps Sarge has something regarding cultural differences, I can't say.

I would not dissuade a younger person from wearing hats as long as done tastefully, proper hat to proper ensemble, not done for the purpose of calling attention to oneself.
Some would argue that the hat itself would draw attention, done right it could very well be positive.

3-


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

@EclecticSr.

Great post.

My introduction to hats came at the outset of my career when I had been assigned a lengthy trial in Ottawa, Ontario through the months of January and February. For those who don't know, while it is a mere 5 1/2 hr. drive from Toronto, Ottawa is a completely different universe when it comes to winter severity. It is much, much colder. In very short order I noticed that unlike the situation at home, a great many men wore hats. A great many of those looked positively goofy in toques and fur trappers when worn with an overcoats and suits. But a subset of the gentlemen frequenting both the courts and Parliament Hill stood out - these wore dress hats - and it appeared to me the perfect solution. I bought my first fedora in Ottawa and almost immediately received my first compliments from complete strangers on my manner of dress. Thus has it been ever since.

@forsbergacct2000 - no offense taken whatsoever. A point to consider - and one to which you allude - men's hats are clearly far less prevalent today than they were in, say, the '50s. But consider that formal suits are far less prevalent as well. Not to the same extent, I admit, but I don't think it can be said any longer that a suit remains the norm for business wear. While some pockets of comparative formality remain (law, banking, for example) "corporate casual" is fast becoming the standard if it isn't there already. However, I don't think either dress hats or suits qualify now, or will in the near future, as eccentric costume. As StylePurgatory points out above, even something as common as brown shoes _can_ present as an out of place choice in a given environment. But brown shoes, like hats, needn't come with a bright label warning of the potential danger to career and social standing alike. Rather, all should understand the importance of being aware of their particular work environment and the degree to which standing apart may become problematic. In many office environments today, wearing a suit may well be perceived as an inappropriate choice. But do we need to warn off an entire generation from wearing them at all?

@Oldsarge - you may well have a point on cultural differences. I don't pretend to have first hand knowledge about what is acceptable in the Swedish corporate / business / professional environment, and certainly could not claim to know more than Bjorn on the subject. But I also can't know whether his comments _reflect_ the reality of his environment or merely _project_ his own strident preferences upon that environment. Our forum participants from different parts of the globe do provide a fascinating window into differing social norms. On the other forum, I am very active in discussions with the Swedish footwear specialists from Skoaktiebolaget. It won't come as a surprise to you that I perceive shoes to be both the literal and figurative foundation of a good wardrobe, so while the discussions aren't based on the minutiae of various other accessories, a window into the Swedish landscape is nonetheless opened. And what I perceive through that window is neither dour conservatism nor dogmatic intolerance of diversity in clothing (or footwear) choices.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

RogerP said:


> @EclecticSr.
> 
> Great post.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Far more eloquent and cohesive post than I would have been ale to cobble together regarding the various aspects you have covered.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I still bet that your skill level gives you some "cred" with your employers and coworkers that the average person doesn't enjoy. That's probably a good thing.

(I get away with being clean-shaven and short-haired on rock band stages for similar reasons.)


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> Who has argued for wearing a hat to an interview, if it would seem out of place? Brown shoes could carry risk at an interview, for God's sake. And no, wearing a hat, as outerwear, with a suit will not mess up your career. That's utterly preposterous.


So, day 2, your first day, hat or no hat? Fedora to work or not? You are 29, and just got hired by a large law firm to do Bank & Finance and Mergers & Acquisitions. You are not special enough to get just one of those fun trains. I see a lot of due diligence coming your way. Partner or bust. Or maybe just 6 years in and you can go for legal at a nice corporation. Homburg or no homburg?

Or maybe a job at a bank. Back office and front office at first, to get to know the business. But you so want to work with something interesting back office, or with private banking. Fedora?

Or, you start at a government agency. You know you can get to the interesting stuff, you went to college and did not do horribly. You do NOT want to get stuck. Tweed cap?

Or, you really scored well during college, and you are in economics or law or an engineer or something. And you've gotten a job at a state agency, doing that REALLY important thing you want to make happen with the environment, the poor or whatever. Fedora?

Or, you are at a tech start up where everyone wears chinos and pike. Bowler?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

RogerP said:


> @EclecticSr.
> 
> Great post.
> 
> ...


1. This is not related to Sweden, and
2. Yes we have to warn people off of hats.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Natty Beau said:


> It's probably a cultural difference. Americans are fairly accepting of different styles of dress, under the same roof.
> 
> I stopped trying to look like everyone else when I turned 25 and I'm glad I did. So far no drawbacks, only pay offs.


And no, Americans are notoriously non-accepting of wonky dressers. At least in the professions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Hands up everyone (besides Bjorn) who thinks my hats and Crusty's hats are "wonky".

Don't be shy. :eek2:

Because if we can pull off a suit, coat and hat in a business professional environment, why couldn't anyone else? If it is done successfully here, what rational basis is there for the belief that only we among humanity can accomplish this feat?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

ON you and Upr Crust, they are not. On most men less than thirty or thirty five, they tend to be.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> So, day 2, your first day, hat or no hat? Fedora to work or not? You are 29, and just got hired by a large law firm to do Bank & Finance and Mergers & Acquisitions. You are not special enough to get just one of those fun trains. I see a lot of due diligence coming your way. Partner or bust. Or maybe just 6 years in and you can go for legal at a nice corporation. Homburg or no homburg?
> 
> Or maybe a job at a bank. Back office and front office at first, to get to know the business. But you so want to work with something interesting back office, or with private banking. Fedora?
> 
> ...


If you're wearing chinos, you don't wear a bowler because it's a stiff hat, suitable only for morning dress, black tie, or lounge suit. Any of the others, if the hat works with the clothes you are wearing, and you want to wear it, yes, first day of the job, go right ahead. For that chinos example, a flat cap of some kind is probably most fitting to the overall outfit. If you feel self conscious wearing a hat, don't, because you shouldn't wear anything that makes you feel self-conscious. If you feel you look good, and wearing it pleases you, no one worth a damn will snicker about it, especially since you're just going to hang it up when you come in the door. I've been wearing a fedora since I was 23 or 24. You're trying to assign hats to situation, instead of to outfits, which is odd, as they are clothes.

Frankly, if one does not have the self-confidence to wear a hat to and from work, when he would like to do so, the odds of making partner seem slim to me. And wouldn't one want to be recognizable, in that case, any way? "Oh Stephens and his hats," they chuckle, "but boy is he clever." Now, if one is particularly unclever, I suppose blending into the furnishings should be among his goals. Being passed over for promotion because one is known to wear a hat? Poppycock.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> ON you and Upr Crust, they are not. On most men less than thirty or thirty five, they tend to be.


For the jury's consideration - feel free to guess at my age.

This one predates a reshape of the hat - much better crown shape now:

Ok, so don't wear this one to work:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> ON you and Upr Crust, they are not. On most men less than thirty or thirty five, they tend to be.


Okay, that's a starting point. Assume we each have a 35 year old colleague who otherwise dresses in a similar fashion to each of us. Hats are clearly not, in and of themselves, laughable costume in our respective work environments. As we cross the lobby coming in from the blustery winter chill, what is it about the hat on our 35 year old colleague that you say will make him stand out negatively, to the point of placing his career in jeopardy, that does not apply to us?

Do either you or anyone else other than Bjorn believe there is a bright age line which separates - all else being equal - the wearer from successfully incorporating the hat as part of a well put together business ensemble versus a bumbling wreck of a wonky mistake?

If so, who drew the line and what evidence is there of its existence?

I can't go back in time, and I can't prove or establish the collective perceptions of my colleagues, but I can assure you that I crossed the same lobby at 35 that I do today, wearing the same type of hats, and I am as positive as I can be that I was not perceived as a wonky dresser. Then or now.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

StylePurgatory said:


> For the jury's consideration - feel free to guess at my age.


32

I like the hats but you haven't convinced me you look more costume like (not in a wonky way) than as if you are going to work.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I still bet that your skill level gives you some "cred" with your employers and coworkers that the average person doesn't enjoy. That's probably a good thing.
> 
> (I get away with being clean-shaven and short-haired on rock band stages for similar reasons.)


If your referring to me, no doubt, but I am retired now. The point I was trying to make was that my hat wearing was never a detraction even by those with whom I came in contact with for the first time who knew little or nothing about me during the course of doing business, aside from co-workers and employers.

Rock on


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

RogerP said:


> Do either you or anyone else other than Bjorn believe there is a bright age line which separates - all else being equal - the wearer from successfully incorporating the hat as part of a well put together business ensemble versus a bumbling wreck of a wonky mistake?


I think a fair argument could be made that, as there is a level of skill in dressing that comes with maturity and experience, younger men may be less successful in choosing the correct hat(s), or in incorporating them successfully into their attire. I've often seen the same suggestion made of more adventurous pocket squares over at That Other Forum ((c) upr_crust).


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

WouldaShoulda said:


> 32
> 
> I like the hats but you haven't convinced me you look more costume like (not in a wonky way) than as if you are going to work.


Did you mean "haven't convinced me you don't look more ..." ?


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

EclecticSr. said:


> If your referring to me, no doubt, but I am retired now. The point I was trying to make was that my hat wearing was never a detraction even by those with whom I came in contact with for the first time who knew little or nothing about me during the course of doing business, aside from co-workers and employers.
> 
> Rock on


Nor has it ever been a negative element for me, from the very outset of my career in my late twenties to the present day as I embark upon my fifties. I have seen no indication of the dangers of hat wearing professed by those who - unsurprisingly - don't wear hats. Surely we hat wearers would have been subject to the negative consequences of our choices, if in fact such negative consequences were at all likely? Between you, me and crusty alone, we're probably looking at the better part of 75 years of collective hat wearing without personal or professional backlash. Either we are remarkably lucky, entirely unique or else the supposed dangers are rather significantly overblown. I'm going with overblown.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

StylePurgatory said:


> I think a fair argument could be made that, as there is a level of skill in dressing that comes with maturity and experience, younger men may be less successful in choosing the correct hat(s), or in incorporating them successfully into their attire. I've often seen the same suggestion made of more adventurous pocket squares over at That Other Forum ((c) upr_crust).


Which is why my example assumed, for the sake of argument, that our younger colleague was similarly dressed. This presumes a hat choice that is neither incorrect nor poorly incorporated into the overall outfit. In other words, similar rig, younger guy.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

SP, I don't think it looks good; in the winter as protection it would be passable. As anything except protection from the cold, it looks out of place. Most people don't wear them any more except in cold months.

I almost always wear a flat cap or fedora in the winter. I never wear one except possibly a baseball cap or light summer hat for protection from sun in the summer. 

To wear an item that almost no one else wears will draw attention to you. Most of the time, it won't be good attention. People you ask will usually say what they think you want to hear. People may or may not talk about it, but a hat wearer, especially a young one risks making it more difficult to relate to others (especially business people, if he doesn't fit in. 

If you are a celebrity or an exceptional performer, you can get away with it. I've played in some pretty wild bands with hair that makes me look like an accountant; but I am a really good musician and I play an instrument that most others don't play. That's the only reason I got away with not fitting in with the rest of the band. I was also very careful not to make social mistakes that would have played into their prejudices about short haired guys and had a sense of humor about the situation.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> SP, I don't think it looks good; in the winter as protection it would be passable. As anything except protection from the cold, it looks out of place. Most people don't wear them any more except in cold months.


Doesn't look good, or looks out of place/unusual/eccentric?


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

I would suggest you fellas in your 20's 7 30's start with a Panama Straw style hat in the summer.

I've always worn hats and for the past 4 years since shaving my head have worn a Fedora felt or Panama hat almost every day, everywhere.

On business and about town. Complements started from day 1 from men & women, strangers and acquaintances.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I think it looks out of place; I also think it would be passable - not great - in the cold, many people wear hats. As an accessory when not needed for the cold, I think it looks out of place and you'd be better off not wearing it.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

RogerP said:


> Nor has it ever been a negative element for me, from the very outset of my career in my late twenties to the present day as I embark upon my fifties. I have seen no indication of the dangers of hat wearing professed by those who - unsurprisingly - don't wear hats. Surely we hat wearers would have been subject to the negative consequences of our choices, if in fact such negative consequences were at all likely? Between you, me and crusty alone, we're probably looking at the better part of 75 years of collective hat wearing without personal or professional backlash. Either we are remarkably lucky, entirely unique or else the supposed dangers are rather significantly overblown. I'm going with overblown.


The dangers are the same ones you would face wearing suits daily to a casual office. They exist. That you avoided them says something about your skill set, personality, or reputation as the guy who's a sharp dresser. I'd also point out that 30 years ago, when you were young, people still wore suits for office jobs a lot of the time and hats were seen seldom, but far more than today. It wasn't as out of place then as it is now.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

StylePurgatory said:


> Did you mean "haven't convinced me you don't look more ..." ?


Sorry, yes.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

mhdena said:


> I would suggest you fellas in your 20's 7 30's start with a Panama Straw style hat in the summer.


They look good with a suit, with just a jacket, or even an open shirt!!


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> The dangers are the same ones you would face wearing suits daily to a casual office. They exist. That you avoided them says something about your skill set, personality, or reputation as the guy who's a sharp dresser. I'd also point out that 30 years ago, when you were young, people still wore suits for office jobs a lot of the time and hats were seen seldom, but far more than today. It wasn't as out of place then as it is now.


Again, we are assigning the wearing of a hat, itself, a level of formality, which is simply not the case. Hats, like all other types of garment, run the gamut of formality. Wearing a suit to a casual office is dressing in a manner that no one else does. Wearing a flat cap with your corduroys and sweater, to the office, is wearing an accessory that no one else in the office does. If a jacket is out of place, so will be a fedora, in the same way that, if a tailcoat is out of place, so will be a top hat.

No one seems to have mentioned that, if you are paying close attention, felt hats have been becoming gradually more fashionable for around the last 10 years. They are a bit behind the trend back toward suits, and slightly more formal daily dress, in general.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> If you're wearing chinos, you don't wear a bowler because it's a stiff hat, suitable only for morning dress, black tie, or lounge suit. Any of the others, if the hat works with the clothes you are wearing, and you want to wear it, yes, first day of the job, go right ahead. For that chinos example, a flat cap of some kind is probably most fitting to the overall outfit. If you feel self conscious wearing a hat, don't, because you shouldn't wear anything that makes you feel self-conscious. If you feel you look good, and wearing it pleases you, no one worth a damn will snicker about it, especially since you're just going to hang it up when you come in the door. I've been wearing a fedora since I was 23 or 24. You're trying to assign hats to situation, instead of to outfits, which is odd, as they are clothes.
> 
> Frankly, if one does not have the self-confidence to wear a hat to and from work, when he would like to do so, the odds of making partner seem slim to me. And wouldn't one want to be recognizable, in that case, any way? "Oh Stephens and his hats," they chuckle, "but boy is he clever." Now, if one is particularly unclever, I suppose blending into the furnishings should be among his goals. Being passed over for promotion because one is known to wear a hat? Poppycock.


Not really, I don't see that working out. All clothes should be assigned to situations, not to outfits. Because they are clothes, indeed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> For the jury's consideration - feel free to guess at my age.
> 
> This one predates a reshape of the hat - much better crown shape now:
> 
> Ok, so don't wear this one to work:


For the consideration of the court, I'd say that all of those outfits would have benefited sans hat.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> For the consideration of the court, I'd say that all of those outfits would have benefited sans hat.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So you now argue that foregoing a top hat makes my morning coat entirely contemporary and relevant?


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> Not really, I don't see that working out. All clothes should be assigned to situations, not to outfits. Because they are clothes, indeed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A subset of clothing is appropriate to any given situation, comprising some items from each category. To argue that hats are a category unto themselves, in consideration of setting and activity, is to argue that shirts, and shoes, are as well. By this logic, pants are pants, and shirts are shirts. Very well; I think I'll wear blue jeans, my Marcella shirt, and the jacket from my steel blue suit to the grocery store later.

There are hats appropriate to casual dress, business dress, and formal dress, just as there are shoes, pants, shirts, jackets, socks, jewelry, and coats appropriate to each. Your argument sets hats apart entirely, as some foreign entity.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

RogerP said:


> Hands up everyone (besides Bjorn) who thinks my hats and Crusty's hats are "wonky".
> 
> Don't be shy. :eek2:
> 
> Because if we can pull off a suit, coat and hat in a business professional environment, why couldn't anyone else? If it is done successfully here, what rational basis is there for the belief that only we among humanity can accomplish this feat?


I would argue that your outfits too, would be better without a hat.

This is all in good company, mind you, and I would never argue that you nor the other hat dressed men are not well dressed, and very good sports in providing pictures. Nonetheless, I've not been in a professional environment that would look at those hats positively, unless in a British very senior somewhat eccentric person pushing 70 who is effectively above approach. I've met one or two such. But none of them wore hats. The British are accepting of the eccentric. The Americans, and most others including Swedes, really are not. No one accepts the eccentric in the young.

I'm not trying to push the idea that my professional experience, with people from various continents I should add before we picture me doing my work in the company only of Inga and Sven, is better than yours. But you do not in any way acknowledge what to me is a most obvious fact; dress hats are not a part of the well dressed norm any more. Acknowledging this and having an approach to it, seems important.

It's more of a nome du guerre of men who really like clothes a little bit more than most people.

Perhaps even, you are just a little too good looking to look bad whatsoever hat you wear (?).

Most guys do not have that working for them. Points are not best spent on making a hat work.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> A subset of clothing is appropriate to any given situation, comprising some items from each category. To argue that hats are a category unto themselves, in consideration of setting and activity, is to argue that shirts, and shoes, are as well. By this logic, pants are pants, and shirts are shirts. Very well; I think I'll wear blue jeans, my Marcella shirt, and the jacket from my steel blue suit to the grocery store later.
> 
> There are hats appropriate to casual dress, business dress, and formal dress, just as there are shoes, pants, shirts, jackets, socks, jewelry, and coats appropriate to each. Your argument sets hats apart entirely, as some foreign entity.


No, in extensively cataloging what goes well in each situation, outside of some formal wear and court dress, dress hats are a problem. Kwan invested, low returns.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

I really think the last couple of pages have demonstrated, Bjorn, that your main objection to hats is that you don't like them, and don't think most people look good in them. Your opinion is equally valid as anyone's, including those of us that believe there is a hat that will look good on just about everyone. I think, however, it may be influencing your assessment of the overall appropriateness of hats.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> So you now argue that foregoing a top hat makes my morning coat entirely contemporary and relevant?


No, but definitely less of a costume and more contemporary. Relevant is a tricky subject.

I quite like your top with that morning coat, but I would perhaps not let that mean so much in how dress hats relate to everyday wear.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

Bjorn said:


> No, in extensively cataloging what goes well in each situation, outside of some formal wear and court dress, dress hats are a problem. Kwan invested, low returns.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're categorizing, however, caps with dress hats, and they are not. They are casual. Dress hats go with dress clothes, and no one has particularly argued otherwise. So what seems to be the point is, you do not think hats look good with traditional business attire.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> I really think the last couple of pages have demonstrated, Bjorn, that your main objection to hats is that you don't like them, and don't think most people look good in them. Your opinion is equally valid as anyone's, including those of us that believe there is a hat that will look good on just about everyone. I think, however, it may be influencing your assessment of the overall appropriateness of hats.


I'm not sure we're we are left with our respective opinions, since every stricture that is applied to my thinking being relative must also be applied to everyone else's. Pesky thing, this postmodernist approach of relativity, to arguments. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> You're categorizing, however, caps with dress hats, and they are not. They are casual. Dress hats go with dress clothes, and no one has particularly argued otherwise. So what seems to be the point is, you do not think hats look good with traditional business attire.


True, not with lounge suits nor with business casual.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

StylePurgatory said:


> So you now argue that foregoing a top hat makes my morning coat entirely contemporary and relevant?


Apparently he does. I think you rock the morning coat avec the top hat. My 2 cents.

I do believe, sadly, that wearing dress hats might have leave a negative impression with some more close minded folk in the business and legal communities, and possibly others, and thus should be worn with reasoned discretion lest it have an impact on the likelihood of promotion, closing a deal, etc. etc.. Kudos if you just don't give a crap and wear it regardless.

Finally, in the spirit of the approaching holidays, I'd like to add that I always enjoy your posts and am grateful for your contributions here.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

blairrob said:


> Apparently he does. I think you rock the morning coat avec the top hat. My 2 cents.
> 
> I do believe, sadly, that wearing dress hats might have leave a negative impression with some more close minded folk in the business and legal communities, and possibly others, and thus should be worn with reasoned discretion lest it have an impact on the likelihood of promotion, closing a deal, etc. etc.. Kudos if you just don't give a crap and wear it regardless.
> 
> Finally, in the spirit of the approaching holidays, I'd like to add that I always enjoy your posts and am grateful for your contributions here.


Concur...

Merry Christmas, mad hatters!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

blairrob said:


> I think you rock the morning coat avec the top hat. My 2 cents.
> Finally, in the spirit of the approaching holidays, I'd like to add that I always enjoy your posts and am grateful for your contributions here.


Why thank you! I have enjoyed your posts as well, including this last one, which I think is quite a balanced perspective on this (apparently!) very involved question.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

StylePurgatory said:


> So you now argue that foregoing a top hat makes my morning coat entirely contemporary and relevant?


I believe that and the following represent the more successful of the several looks you presented. It isn't the hat so much as everything that goes with the hat.


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## StylePurgatory (Jun 3, 2013)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I believe that and the following represent the more successful of the several looks you presented. It isn't the hat so much as everything that goes with the hat.


A coat does certainly go well with a hat; there is no arguing the fact.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Bjorn said:


> I would argue that your outfits too, would be better without a hat.


Well of course you would. Please don't think I'm trying to convince you of anything. I am not operating under the misapprehension that you have an open mind on the subject. ic12337:

Thanks for the good looking comment, but if hats were the perma-fail that you make them out to be, that would not be enough.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

So in the end, as always in discussions like these, we must agree to disagree and to go about our daily lives as we have to this point. Roger will sport his headgear and Bjorn will do without. Merry Christmas, everyone.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

- - - - and the Grinch will leave Hooville and steal hats this year - - -


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^LOL....well he better not try to take any of my Stetson Temple(s) or my one and only Borsalino because I'm waiting for him...I'm waiting...still waiting! :crazy:


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

Oldsarge said:


> So in the end, as always in discussions like these, we must agree to disagree and to go about our daily lives as we have to this point. Roger will sport his headgear and Bjorn will do without. Merry Christmas, everyone.


Is not this an example of a more general point - where does one draw the line between classical/traditional and anachronistic/archaic, with Roger and Björn drawing this in different places?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> 1- began wearing hats in my twenties, started to lose my hair by thirty, would not have made a difference.


I started losing my hair in my late 20's and started wearing hats once in a while but not all the time.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

StylePurgatory said:


> For the jury's consideration - feel free to guess at my age.
> 
> This one predates a reshape of the hat - much better crown shape now:
> 
> Ok, so don't wear this one to work:


nice pictures.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I think it looks out of place; I also think it would be passable - not great - in the cold, many people wear hats. As an accessory when not needed for the cold, I think it looks out of place and you'd be better off not wearing it.


So you're saying there's no reason to wear hats except on special occasions?


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I hope not for one's scalp's sake. Just ask any dermatologist.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

No, but where I live they are really unusual unless you need to protect yourself from cold or sun. Older guys wear them more often.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

That's because older guys have learned that protecting one's head is a good idea. Unfortunately the young still, as they always have, believe they are immortal and that terrible things will never happen to them. Hence the higher mortality among men at earlier ages.


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## Quetzal (Jul 25, 2014)

This mentality of hats being an "old-guy thing" is just like calling Bow-Ties "old-timey"; both hats and bows received this treatment from the 1950s to the early 1990s (most "old-timers" in period film and television are dressed in a suit, a hat, and a tie; according to Baby-Boomers, only old guys are dressed like this, so they tell me) which is something that probably still lingers with people born and raised from the 1950s to the 1980s (a former teacher told me that his grandfather wore a stingy-brim hat with a suit and tie in the 1980s until his death in the early 1990s).

Hate to say this to some members, but calling and thinking of hats as "costume" or anything similar is just wrong.

-Quetzal


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

Those of sparse pelage have every reason to don a hat, so why not a nice one? I don't gave that excuse, but I love hats and have a shelf full of them, mostly of the dressier variety, though none that would probably pass muster on AAAC. The exception might be my racoon ushanka that will boil the wearer in his own juices, but which is of little use to me in the southern U.S. or, even, in Austria where I purchased it, since my travel there has shifted from fall/winter to spring/summer. I used to wear these hats much more often before I switched almost exclusively to two-wheeled travel. I wear a helmet while on the scooter/motorcycle, and carrying and swapping to a hat is too much of a hassle.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

May I suggest that personal experience might inform this boundary to some extent? My elder male relatives dressed (and those alive still dress) in a manner that would be appreciated on the WAYWT thread. Some wore hats, my grandfathers and older uncles, and so the phenomenon does not seem so archaic to me.

At any rate this thread has been instrumental in the acceleration of my arbritray timescale toward the purchase of a `dress` hat and so you may expect to see images of me proudly sporting one anon.



williamson said:


> Is not this an example of a more general point - where does one draw the line between classical/traditional and anachronistic/archaic, with Roger and Björn drawing this in different places?


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## Donnie (Nov 14, 2014)

RogerP said:


> Do either you or anyone else other than Bjorn believe there is a bright age line which separates - all else being equal - the wearer from successfully incorporating the hat as part of a well put together business ensemble versus a bumbling wreck of a wonky mistake?
> 
> If so, who drew the line and what evidence is there of its existence?


Here in Texas the age line is 41. A year or so ago there was a bill introduced by a state senator from San Antonio to move the age up about a decade, but it died in committee. Of course, this statue only applies to Fedoras and Homburgs and the like. There are no legal proscriptions against wearing cowboy hats, gimme caps or other more casual headgear. These are acceptable at any age and in any setting. Also, any hat with a Dallas Cowboys logo would of course be exempt.

If I may add my anecdotal observations:
* Cowboy hats are the fedora of the Southwestern U.S. and are worn by many here. They are worn for the same practical reasons as the "dress up hats" discussed in this thread. I would call them part of the local sartorial vernacular. Nice ones might be worn with a western-style suit and in any setting (with or without suit).
* Some (but not all) of the same people who wouldn't think twice about wearing a cowboy hat might look askance at someone wearing a Homburg.
* Other non-cowboy groups also wear hats. The "dress up hats" discussed in this thread never seemed to go completely out-of-style with African Americans; I've often seen them wear them well to church or special occasions. Some ethnic groups also wear hats that are common in their culture.
* I haven't worked at a place that required a tie since probably the mid-90s. In each of these places, however, there are always those who still wear nice clothes. They are not treated like freaks or held back and I can't imagine the addition of a hat would change that. People are judged more by what they contribute and how well they get along with others. If you are decent at either of those, at most you might get good-natured teasing. If you can't manage either, a hat will just be one more thing to make fun of.
* I've been to a lot of business meetings, but none that I imagine would have turned out differently if someone involved had hung his Fedora on a peg as he walked in.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Shaver said:


> At any rate this thread has been instrumental in the acceleration of my arbritray timescale toward the purchase of a `dress` hat and so you may expect to see images of me proudly sporting one anon.


Most excellent! I have every confidence that you will look absolutely smashing.



Donnie said:


> Also, any hat with a Dallas Cowboys logo would of course be exempt.


This I do recall from my many trips to Big D over the years.



Donnie said:


> * I've been to a lot of business meetings, but none that I imagine would have turned out differently if someone involved had hung his Fedora on a peg as he walked in.


I very much this reflects a more generalized rule than one which asserts career jeopardy to be a realistic consequence of such a choice.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Oldsarge said:


> I hope not for one's scalp's sake. Just ask any dermatologist.


I don't need to ask a dermatologist.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> No, but where I live they are really unusual unless you need to protect yourself from cold or sun. Older guys wear them more often.


I need to wear them cause my scalp gets cold in the winter and it also protects me from the hot sun during the summertime.


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

RogerP said:


> I very much this reflects a more generalized rule than one which asserts career jeopardy to be a realistic consequence of such a choice.


...and I must say that the impressions clothing can create in such matters occasionally do impact ones perceptions of suitability for certain roles. During my banking career I have personally been a part of discussions around succession planning where conservatism ruled and such things as dress and common-law relationships were on the table. Reasonable or not the fact is such a seemingly irrelevant issue can have an impact on these discussions. I would even posit in your field this would be the case from time when clients select representation.

I do not believe it is generally relevant but by times it is, and that is why I suggested discretion. I did not and will not say _don't_ wear dress-up hats.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

That comment was not in response to anything you said, Blair.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Besides we've danced this one already. Nobody is suggesting that everyone should wear dress hats. Nor is anyone suggesting that it be done where it would clearly be inappropriate to do so in a particular work environment. Where I differ with some is the perceived need to endlessly bleat " Danger Will Robinson! Danger! " regarding the wearing of hats.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

I've been in Attorney-Client estate planning meetings too, in fact then I wore a full neatly trimmed beard.

And closed the sale.

Next I suppose will be a thread of how only clean shaven is the way to go. And while I'm now clean shaven, I would think a greyer full beard would not be a hindrance to me, it certainly wasn't 20 yrs ago. 

You don't want to wear a hat, don't.

Don't want to wear a beard, don't.

Don't want to wear cuff links, don't.

Don't want to wear a pocket square, don't.

Those who don't mind any of the above, wear them with pride!


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

RogerP said:


> Where I differ with some is the perceived need to endlessly bleat " Danger Will Robinson! Danger! " regarding the wearing of hats.


Amen.



mhdena said:


> You don't want to wear a hat, don't.
> 
> Don't want to wear a beard, don't.
> 
> ...


Amen #2.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

RogerP said:


> Besides we've danced this one already. Nobody is suggesting that everyone should wear dress hats. Nor is anyone suggesting that it be done where it would clearly be inappropriate to do so in a particular work environment. Where I differ with some is the perceived need to endlessly bleat " Danger Will Robinson! Danger! " regarding the wearing of hats.


But sometimes there are purposes of wearing hats not for dress up but having a reason to.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Donnie said:


> Here in Texas the age line is 41. A year or so ago there was a bill introduced by a state senator from San Antonio to move the age up about a decade, but it died in committee. Of course, this statue only applies to Fedoras and Homburgs and the like. There are no legal proscriptions against wearing cowboy hats, gimme caps or other more casual headgear. These are acceptable at any age and in any setting. Also, any hat with a Dallas Cowboys logo would of course be exempt.
> 
> If I may add my anecdotal observations:
> * Cowboy hats are the fedora of the Southwestern U.S. and are worn by many here. They are worn for the same practical reasons as the "dress up hats" discussed in this thread. I would call them part of the local sartorial vernacular. Nice ones might be worn with a western-style suit and in any setting (with or without suit).
> ...


Chances are, by the time someone is actually participating in business meetings, they have already somewhat made their mark.

Besides, the penalty for not fitting in is seldom so direct. It's more in the comments made mostly when the person who is "breaking new ground" is not there to hear it. The odd sense that people feel about someone not fitting in, where the person who chooses to not fit in has to work harder to get good relationships going. It can be a subtle unconscious ding going into a job interview. The sadder thing is that the person "who refuses to fit in" seldom has a clue about the impression they are making and probably does not realize that they are making life harder for themselves.

Once people are past adolescence, it is extremely unlikely that you will be subjected to rude, direct comments for not fitting in. It's still there, though. Try wearing a tie to a tech company where they are proudly casual (where anyone stupid enough to do it probably would be pretty directly called out) and see what happens.


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## nathanielp (Jan 2, 2015)

I've briefly looked over this discussion since I was going to ask this question in another thread, but decided to search the forums first to see if there was a discussion on dress hats.

Some friends of mine wear either fedoras or caps (similar to what Clegg on Last of the Summer Wine wears) with some of their suits (to church, to special occasions, etc.). My family members have also considered giving me a "dress hat" (fedora or cap) as a gift to go with my suits. Is this something I should ever consider or just forgoe the idea entirely? My friends that wear them don't seem to look "strange" with them, and it seems to suit them OK. I wouldn't want to wear one "just because they're wearing one" or to "just wear one". I'm just wondering if I should allow my family to purchase me one next time they ask or respectfully decline?

I'll also try to dig more through this thread and read more past responses as well. I've only been able to briefly have a look.

Thanks!


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

nathanielp said:


> I've briefly looked over this discussion since I was going to ask this question in another thread, but decided to search the forums first to see if there was a discussion on dress hats.
> 
> Some friends of mine wear either fedoras or caps (similar to what Clegg on Last of the Summer Wine wears) with some of their suits (to church, to special occasions, etc.). My family members have also considered giving me a "dress hat" (fedora or cap) as a gift to go with my suits. *Is this something I should ever consider or just forgoe the idea entirely? *My friends that wear them don't seem to look "strange" with them, and it seems to suit them OK. I wouldn't want to wear one "just because they're wearing one" or to "just wear one". I'm just wondering if I should allow my family to purchase me one next time they ask or respectfully decline?
> 
> ...


For multiple comments from several members addressing this very question feel free to consult the previous 313 posts in this thread.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

A good hat is not an inexpensive purchase. Akubra begin around $150 and I wouldn't consider anything lesser than an Akubra worthy of wear with a worsted suit. (A wool hat suffices when one is wrapped up in tweed but not otherwise.) Therefore, if you family is willing to put out the cash for a good hat by all means indulge their generosity! Better to have and decline (on occasion) to wear than to lack and feel a need to wear.


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## nathanielp (Jan 2, 2015)

RogerP said:


> For multiple comments from several members addressing this very question feel free to consult the previous 313 posts in this thread.


Will do. Thanks for the info. I'm still working my way through the thread.


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## HamilcarBarca (Dec 9, 2012)

Wow this has been a pretty cool read. Very interesting view points from both sides. 

I'm probably one of the younger hat wearers here at 24. I have been wearing hats for a while, I wore a hat in the Army and I continue to wear them outside of the army. I've gotten some flack here, in particular when I wore a bowler. Boy, I got a beating for that one ic12337: Of course no one shunned me, nor did anyone really care. I got some positive feedback in another forum I visit. I don't mind "costumey" items, around where I live hardly anyone wears a tie or even leather shoes. Even at church I'm the only guy in a tie, my dad, the pastor, usually just wears a vest and no tie  I also enjoy things like sack jackets and traditional Anglo-american style despite the fact that I was born in Mexico. So I don't shun from costumey items as long as they're not too out there. People do not object to them, I have gotten some nice compliments from strangers that seemed genuine and people say the style suits me. Of course I probably look like a gangster like my man Howard often comments which I don't mind.

I like to wear hats both as an aesthetic piece and a functional piece. I prefer hats over pocket squares which have no function. Living in Texas it's a good thing to wear a hat since it can get really hot and skin cancer is a real concern.


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## M_Neal (Jan 4, 2015)

I have a summer Tilley and a winter one (TW2) enroute to me... looking at possibly getting an Acubra Sydney, since they make them in adult sizes (7 7/8 - 8)... am I going to be in trouble with Bjorn? 

All teasing aside... I've seen websites where people can choose eyeglass frames and the website will overlay the frames on a picture of the person... is there any site that does that with hats that anyone is aware of? I'm in Kosovo and can't just nip out to a hat shop....


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^LOL. Hope you enjoy those Tilley Endurables and that you may long wear them and only in good health. I hve enjoyed the wool winter and cotton poplin summer varieties for several years now. They keep one warm and/or dry, as needs may dictate, they look good and they wear like iron. Mine look almost as good as the day I bought them new...with just the right indications of wear from their intended uses! :thumbs-up:


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## Starting Late (Apr 26, 2010)

I wish hats would come back into the mainstream. Whatever hair I have left at the this stage of life, I buzz down to nothing. But it's cold in the winter, and I get too much direct sun in the summer. I would like to wear a hat, like men did in the 1940s, but can't get without a boatload of comments, most silly, some nasty. Baseball caps don't do it for me.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Starting Late said:


> I wish hats would come back into the mainstream. Whatever hair I have left at the this stage of life, I buzz down to nothing. But it's cold in the winter, and I get too much direct sun in the summer. I would like to wear a hat, like men did in the 1940s, but can't get without a boatload of comments, most silly, some nasty. Baseball caps don't do it for me.


What would be silly is letting the uninformed mock you out of a choice that you find to be both an aesthetic plus and a practical necessity. You lose better than 40% of your body heat through your head in winter. And skin cancer from the summer sun is a lot nastier than their comments ever could be.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I don't think the "bias" against hats is nearly as severe in the winter when worn for warmth or for caps in the summer to keep sun off the head.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Starting Late said:


> I wish hats would come back into the mainstream. Whatever hair I have left at the this stage of life, I buzz down to nothing. But it's cold in the winter, and I get too much direct sun in the summer. I would like to wear a hat, like men did in the 1940s, but can't get without a boatload of comments, most silly, some nasty. Baseball caps don't do it for me.


seeing hats now in 2015 is a rarity.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

hats are usually worn if a guy had thinning hair or is going bald.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

Starting Late said:


> I wish hats would come back into the mainstream. Whatever hair I have left at the this stage of life, I buzz down to nothing. But it's cold in the winter, and I get too much direct sun in the summer. I would like to wear a hat, like men did in the 1940s, but can't get without a boatload of comments, most silly, some nasty. Baseball caps don't do it for me.[/QUOTE ]
> 
> For what it's worth, I have yet receive a silly or nasty comment about my hat wearing, actually quite the opposite. You should not allow the negative comments from a few dissuade you you from doing what is in your best interest for the sake of your health.


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## g3org3y (Dec 30, 2014)

An interesting thread, just read it start to finish.

I'd say that a hat should be worn as part of an outfit, not as well as.

Much much harder to pull off a proper hat (i.e. not baseball cap or beanie) when younger. Very very few in London seem to wear them tbh.

I'd say RogerP pulls off the look perfectly. Maybe it's an age thing or the associated outfit, but that's how you do it. :cool2:

I disagree with Bjorn's belief that StylePurgatory's outfits would have been better without a hat. The last photo in particular is spot on imo. I would however say the addition of the hat to the first outfit (blue suit) makes the whole ensemble feel somewhat old fashioned (some might argue 'classic'). Perhaps that's the look you were going for? The black tie photo is elegant, it really works. Judging by the outfit of the lady in the photo, there was a 1920s theme? 

Regardless as I see it, wear what you want and wear it with pride. However, there is a fine line (imvho) between pulling it off and looking like a try hard. As mentioned above when you are younger this is much much harder.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

EclecticSr. said:


> Starting Late said:
> 
> 
> > I wish hats would come back into the mainstream. Whatever hair I have left at the this stage of life, I buzz down to nothing. But it's cold in the winter, and I get too much direct sun in the summer. I would like to wear a hat, like men did in the 1940s, but can't get without a boatload of comments, most silly, some nasty. Baseball caps don't do it for me.[/QUOTE ]
> ...


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## HamilcarBarca (Dec 9, 2012)

Since we are being honest, do you guys think I can pull off a hat or does it look bad on me? Here's a picture.










I'd like to hear what you guys think


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Yez looks like someone nobody'd mess wit'. Yez looks like family. Gotta Uncle Mario who look' like that when he was young. And no, I'm not putting anyone on!irate:


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Just don't wear a Dallas Cowboys cap, and I'll be happy.


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## Larry Poppins (Jan 14, 2014)

HamilcarBarca, On you that hat is all aces.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> Regardless as I see it, wear what you want and wear it with pride. However, there is a fine line (imvho) between pulling it off and looking like a try hard. As mentioned above when you are younger this is much much harder.


But when you're older you can pull it off nicely.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

HamilcarBarca said:


> Since we are being honest, do you guys think I can pull off a hat or does it look bad on me? Here's a picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you pull it off nicely. Also try to get a fake moustache.


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## mhdena (Jan 4, 2008)

Howard said:


> I think you pull it off nicely. Also try to get a fake moustache.


He doesn't need it, you might he does not.


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## SammyH (Jan 29, 2014)

Well, I've wrestled with this too and with much chagrin have to admit that a fedora type hat looks a bit costumey. Older gentleman can totally pull it off; but then again, they can pull off many things that younger guys cannot; just as they can say many things to women (lol) that younger men cannot, and totally get away with it. I'm aghast when I'm with my father what he says - and they think it's cute, lol. 

Anyway, all this from an inveterate bow tie wearer who is quite willing to push sartorial boundaries and make something MINE, like a bow tie. Just. Can't. Do. The. Hat. Thing.

I know people who try it around my age. And they can't do it either. 

However, I do wear very nice baseball hats - tweed and leather ralph lauren, loro piana cashmere, waxed cotton for rain, etc. They're actually really nice. I get to wear a hat (I do feel "bare" somehow without one now). And I don't look like I'm trying to star in a 1940s film.


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## SammyH (Jan 29, 2014)

When I saw the Barca photo I thought it was a guy from the 1940s - to show how it's done. Looks great - very flattering; handsome guy. But would still look "put on" in today's world imo. I say wear it if you like to do so; especially if it looks that good on you.


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## TheBarbaron (Oct 8, 2010)

I like the fedora, Hamilcar. I have a similar grey one, though I like your band better.

Inspired by this thread, I'll be picking up my new Stetson black homburg next week, so we'll see how the non-fedora hat looks on me.


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## justonemore (Jul 2, 2009)

1940 New York.... 5c malted milk (with ice cream), and only a few unhatted gents in the crowd:rolleyes2:

https://imageshack.com/i/ex8oiclIj


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

justonemore said:


> 1940 New York.... 5c malted milk (with ice cream), and only a few unhatted gents in the crowd:rolleyes2:
> 
> https://imageshack.com/i/ex8oiclIj


Broadway? Gentlemen wearing typical clothing of the day. Such clothing that today we are willing to pay a premium for, that was ordinary then. Heavy DB overcoats? Hats? Do they seem costume? A lot different than some of the AMJACK, SLOBWEAR that is viewed today along that same Avenue.


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## LawSuits (Nov 1, 2011)

Just had to weigh in. I haven't owned a serious hat my whole life, until this year. In bitter cold of winter I wear a toque, and I have a broad brimmed affair that I wear when chasing fish in the sun, and a couple of caps, but I just usually don't wear a hat. But this past fall I bought myself one on a whim - it is kind of casual, kind of formal - it is made of "lite felt" ( I think that is trademarked) and is a simple, wider brimmed fedora. (Got it at an Orvis store.) It is unlined, except for the band, and water resistant, and crushable, but it holds its shape really well, and it is warm, and it keeps my head dry in light rain or in snow. I wish I had bought it years ago because it is so practical, but I just didn't feel I could carry off a fedora - only someone really old would wear such a thing. Well, maybe I am really old now, but I recently saw my office partner's son sporting a very similar hat and while he is young, he carried it off perfectly. I only wear it when the weather calls for it, and maybe that is why I feel so comfortable in it, not in the least self conscious, as I would have felt years ago. I may have been put off from buying a hat for all these years because I was concerned others might think I was trying for a look that wasn't genuinely me - and that was stupid - I should have just gotten the practical hat and worn it.


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## EclecticSr. (Sep 21, 2014)

LawSuits said:


> Just had to weigh in. I haven't owned a serious hat my whole life, until this year. In bitter cold of winter I wear a toque, and I have a broad brimmed affair that I wear when chasing fish in the sun, and a couple of caps, but I just usually don't wear a hat. But this past fall I bought myself one on a whim - it is kind of casual, kind of formal - it is made of "lite felt" ( I think that is trademarked) and is a simple, wider brimmed fedora. (Got it at an Orvis store.) It is unlined, except for the band, and water resistant, and crushable, but it holds its shape really well, and it is warm, and it keeps my head dry in light rain or in snow. I wish I had bought it years ago because it is so practical, but I just didn't feel I could carry off a fedora - only someone really old would wear such a thing. Well, maybe I am really old now, but I recently saw my office partner's son sporting a very similar hat and while he is young, he carried it off perfectly. I only wear it when the weather calls for it, and maybe that is why I feel so comfortable in it, not in the least self conscious, as I would have felt years ago. I may have been put off from buying a hat for all these years because I was concerned others might think I was trying for a look that wasn't genuinely me - and that was stupid - I should have just gotten the practical hat and worn it.


Kudos to you. It's shame that so many men who would otherwise wear a hat, but do not, because they feel the same as you did, that they would be perceived as trying too hard , or affected. Wear it with pride.


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