# Why does our President insist upon shaming us?



## Wall (Dec 4, 2008)

Seriously, an I Pod as the gift to the QUEEN OF ENGLAND. I Pods make great gifts to teenagers and college students and people who love gadgets. Heck you can even give them to people who just don't have one.
Obama and his team can think of nothing better than an I Pod, how embarrassing.
https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_...bamas_gift_for_the_queen_an_ipod_your_majesty


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Loaded with Ludacris' music catalog. Its the shiznit!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I've had enough. I hope the GOP recollect themselves in time to save this country.


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

What's really sad is that I hear she already had one (probably with a lady-in-waiting to d/l her favorite tunes)!


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Incredible. He gave Gordon Brown a bunch of DVDs you could buy at Wal-Mart for less than $50. The Obama White House is either clueless or cheap. Did he also give her an iTunes gift card? Someone needs to send the Chief of Protocol a copy of Emily Post. This is embarassing.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Why would you give an Ipod to the Queen of England?


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Howard said:


> Why would you give an Ipod to the Queen of England?


The question begs the question, doesn't it? Certainly he is too calculating, to deliberate, not to have meant (and understood its affect) something by this "gift." First, he shuns Brown in their U.S. get-toghther and now he seems to have deliberately given a gift of no-meaning. Hmm, perhaps he is signalling to the rest of the world that our so-called "special relationship" is now over. I am not a fan of the royals, but I am a fan of our steadfast allies.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Funny, in a tragicomic way, how folks rush to condemn others on little information. Then again many here seem of the opinion that Obama is the secret clone-child of Chairman Mao. (I guess it makes you feel better? Anyway...)

This is not at all embarrassing and is quite in keeping with protocol.

Her Majesty already had an earlier-model iPod presented to her by Prince William and when asked about gifts for the visit her staff made it known to the White House staff that a new iPod was one of the things on a short list of things Her Majesty would be happy to receive.

What would the pseudo-righteous "indignantaries" here have the President give her instead? Replica of the White House in alabaster? John Hancock's body with a stake driven through his heart? Perhaps give Virginia back? :icon_smile:


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

I thought he was going to give ipods to the "moderate" Taliban to bring them over to our side.

Whatever happened to that?


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

At least he didn't give her autographed copies of the books he "wrote."


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Quay said:


> What would the pseudo-righteous "indignantaries" here have the President give her instead? Replica of the White House in alabaster? John Hancock's body with a stake driven through his heart? Perhaps give Virginia back? :icon_smile:


David Beckham?:icon_smile_big:


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

TMMKC said:


> David Beckham?:icon_smile_big:


:idea: Oh, oh! OHHH! YES! Gods be gracious YESS! There is still time! FedEx can ship him overnight!

Oh please, please, please....

TMMKC, that was timely genius.

PS

AND THE WIFE!


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Quay said:


> Funny, in a tragicomic way, how folks rush to condemn others on little information. Then again many here seem of the opinion that Obama is the secret clone-child of Chairman Mao. (I guess it makes you feel better? Anyway...)
> 
> This is not at all embarrassing and is quite in keeping with protocol.
> 
> ...


I would not give Virginia back, but I might make a gift of the state of California. I also heard that all the queen really wanted for Christmas was her two front teeth. After the fact, the Obama spin team can spin it anyway they choose. Today was an absolute disaster. https://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/01/curl-schedule-leaves-obama-media-no-show/

So forgive us we didn't realize this blunder was actually intentional--it is difficult to distinguish.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

gman-17 said:


> I would not give Virginia back, but I might make a gift of the state of California. I also heard that all the queen really wanted for Christmas was her two front teeth. After the fact, the Obama spin team can spin it anyway they choose. Today was an absolute disaster. https://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/01/curl-schedule-leaves-obama-media-no-show/
> 
> So forgive us we didn't realize this blunder was actually intentional--it is difficult to distinguish.


What's to forgive? You can either read, pre-visit, of the plans in other places and see how happy the folks at Buckingham Palace are with the new tech toy or get your news from the Moonie's tabloid. It's your choice as despite rumors here to the contrary we still live in a free country.

And as for California, Mexico is currently the highest bidder. (Britain bid in something silly called "pounds" while the Mexican government has promised free-for-life Corona.)


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Quay said:


> What's to forgive? You can either read, pre-visit, of the plans in other places and see how happy the folks at Buckingham Palace are with the new tech toy or get your news from the Moonie's tabloid. It's your choice as despite rumors here to the contrary we still live in a free country.
> 
> _Personally I am not buying--but you can if you like. You know if it were 2002, the iPOD would be a great gift. It just has the look and feel of a major screw up and then a polite cover up. But as you said, its a free country believe what you want._


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

Quay said:


> Funny, in a tragicomic way, how folks rush to condemn others on little information. Then again many here seem of the opinion that Obama is the secret clone-child of Chairman Mao. (I guess it makes you feel better? Anyway...)
> 
> This is not at all embarrassing and is quite in keeping with protocol.
> 
> ...


Oh please! Why let a little thing like facts get in the way of a good diatribe.


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## mmedici (Jun 27, 2008)

*So quick to criticize*

So quick to criticize. None of you know how she felt about it...
He is a fantastic leader and the leader this country needs...


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

mmedici said:


> So quick to criticize. None of you know how she felt about it...
> He is a fantastic leader and the leader this country needs...


Yes. Why wouldn't she like it? Those things cost like $400. I know I'd like one.

I understand that he also slipped her a couple of iPod Shuffles for William and Harry. You can imagine how excited they will be.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I don't know the answer, but I do *hope* he *changes*!


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Quay said:


> This is not at all embarrassing and is quite in keeping with protocol.
> 
> Her Majesty already had an earlier-model iPod presented to her by Prince William and when asked about gifts for the visit her staff made it known to the White House staff that a new iPod was one of the things on a short list of things Her Majesty would be happy to receive.


All of the people who have commented on this thread fail to note the songs on the iPod, as well as the other part of the gift.

The iPod was loaded with Broadway songs, heavy on Rodgers & Hammerstein (although including "Cabaret," and "Seasons of Love" from _Rent). _It was presented with a book written and signed by Richard Rodgers.

The gift in return was a signed portrait of Her Majesty and Prince Phillip.

The only US President she never met was Johnson - he was not travelling much due to the Vietnam War and she wasn't travelling much due to her raising a family. I read that on the two occasions Johnson met the Pope, Johnson presented him with statues of himself. I don't know what the Pope would do with a statue of LBJ...


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## Xhine23 (Jan 17, 2008)

Wall said:


> Seriously, an I Pod as the gift to the QUEEN OF ENGLAND. I Pods make great gifts to teenagers and college students and people who love gadgets. Heck you can even give them to people who just don't have one.
> *Obama and his team can think of nothing better than an I Pod, how embarrassing.*
> https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_...bamas_gift_for_the_queen_an_ipod_your_majesty


What's wrong with an Ipod? 
I'm sure he spent our money to buy her some expensive gift people would complain. If the Queen liked it thats all matter. If 'twas you what would you give the Queen?


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## scl10 (Jan 21, 2009)

I do think this issue of these cheap commercial gifts is a bit of a problem. 

That said, I do not remember what Bush used to give, if it ever even received publicity. 

One of the problems with the US is that we are such a young country that we don't have the history to carve pens from anti-slave ships, etc. That said, the White House can do much better, I am sure. 

Maybe a Chevy or Ford. Then again, I hear they can't even give those things away. :icon_smile_big:


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

David V said:


> Oh please! Why let a little thing like facts get in the way of a good diatribe.


Quite right, especially here. :icon_smile: Most days the tribe goes for the diatribe to the exclusion of all else.



Miket61 said:


> All of the people who have commented on this thread fail to note the songs on the iPod, as well as the other part of the gift....


Was going to get to that after the lather was wiped off the floor. First things first, namely the fact of the appropriate gift itself before commenting on what was on it. Can't introduce too much reality at once or seizures are likely to ensue.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Quay said:


> Quite right, especially here. :icon_smile: Most days the tribe goes for the diatribe to the exclusion of all else.
> 
> Was going to get to that after the lather was wiped off the floor. First things first, namely the fact of the appropriate gift itself before commenting on what was on it. Can't introduce too much reality at once or seizures are likely to ensue.


Never let some good spin get in the way of common sense. :icon_smile_wink: I am sure it was almost imposible for her to send a member of her personal staff to go out and fetch her one of those iPod thingies. Thankfully, she is good natured. I guess Prime Minister Brown wanted a bunch of DVD's that didn't play as well. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. Obama is the only person who makes Bill Clinton look like a serious man.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

gman-17 said:


> ... I guess Prime Minister Brown wanted a bunch of DVD's that didn't play as well....


That's the part of the story no one has looked into yet: what format were the DVDs? NTSC? Will the play in Britain? Was it a joke designed to frustrate the Prime Minister? Or were the contents of the DVDs actually replaced with secret data, vital sorts of stuff, like old home movies of Reagan and Thatcher in a shots contest?



> The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. Obama is the only person who makes Bill Clinton look like a serious man.


Interesting metaphor. Should we start to lick the President?

And as for looking serious, oh my. Clinton? He was incredibly serious in doing all that he did but certainly didn't seem that way very often. Obama seems quite serious, but is he really? Since some here believe that the Secret Manchurian Code Word will be spoken soon perhaps he'll suddenly break out in song, which will then confirm the worst fears of those here who, natch, have been waiting for such a thing all along.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

scl10 said:


> One of the problems with the US is that we are such a young country that we don't have the history to carve pens from anti-slave ships, etc. That said, the White House can do much better, I am sure.


There is an interesting collection of pieces made from wood removed during the Truman-era restoration of the White House. They were given to White House staff.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Miket61 said:


> ...The only US President she never met was Johnson - he was not travelling much due to the Vietnam War and she wasn't travelling much due to her raising a family. I read that on the two occasions Johnson met the Pope, Johnson presented him with statues of himself. I don't know what the Pope would do with a statue of LBJ...


At least the Pontiff ended up with some interesting bookends...


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

Quay said:


> That's the part of the story no one has looked into yet: what format were the DVDs? NTSC? Will the play in Britain? Was it a joke designed to frustrate the Prime Minister? Or were the contents of the DVDs actually replaced with secret data, vital sorts of stuff, like old home movies of Reagan and Thatcher in a shots contest?
> 
> Interesting metaphor. Should we start to lick the President?
> 
> And as for looking serious, oh my. Clinton? He was incredibly serious in doing all that he did but certainly didn't seem that way very often. Obama seems quite serious, but is he really? Since some here believe that the Secret Manchurian Code Word will be spoken soon perhaps he'll suddenly break out in song, which will then confirm the worst fears of those here who, natch, have been waiting for such a thing all along.


My friend, I am sorry there isn't any hope for you in this.


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## obiwan (Feb 2, 2007)

Where are the Dixie Chicks with their outrage and embarrassment, oh yeah that was only for Bushie.

Obama is a disaster and our only hope is the GOP can reclaim enough seats to stop him from leading us to ruin.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

gman-17 said:


> My friend, I am sorry there isn't any hope for you in this.


You're obtuse...your mercury must be low. But, sorrow not, as...

"_...it is a blessed provision of nature that at times like these, as soon as a man's mercury has got down to a certain point there comes a revulsion, and he rallies. Hope springs up, and cheerfulness along with it, and then he is in good shape to do something for himself, if anything can be done._"
- Mark Twain, _A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court_


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

obiwan said:


> Where are the Dixie Chicks with their outrage and embarrassment, oh yeah that was only for Bushie.
> 
> Obama is a disaster and our only hope is the GOP can reclaim enough seats to stop him from leading us to ruin.


The Dixie Chicks have been appointed Special Envoys to Texas.

But, really, speaking all by yourself for "our" now? I suppose you're also the "they" in "that's what they say." This might explain why conventional wisdom is anything but conventional or wise. Or it might not.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Jovan said:


> I've had enough. I hope the GOP recollect themselves in time to save this country.


I think I should clarify that this was a joke. However, it strangely echoes something else said in this thread.

Look, gents. I realise I'm fairly liberal, there are many more conservatives here, and that I am disliked for it. That's fine but... economic policies are one thing. Creating "green jobs!!!" are another thing. Criticising our President three months in for giving the Queen an iPod -- which _in its actual context_ was thought out, please read the article before commenting -- is just ludicrous. The DVDs had some thought put into them even if they were the wrong region. He didn't think that little bit through, that much is certain. But I'm not even one of those people who took all of Bush's supposed social screw-ups out of context to say, "Har har har. Look at what an idiot he is. It accurately mirrors how he is running this country," even though it was a pretty mainstream thing for liberals to do. Let's grow up.

Obama has been criticised as dressing "vulgarly" among other things. (Vulgar is a consistently used stand-in word on this forum for "in a way I would not" rather than its actual meaning of something truly offensive.) What's next? Will I see another post on the Interchange flapping its arms up and down about him tying his shoes in an undignified manner? Seriously, I don't know what to expect. If you think his policies will send our country and the world and the end of time in a downward spiral, that is okay. But keep trivial nonsense out of your criticisms of him, at least.

That is all.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

What kind of music does Queen of England listen to?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Quay said:


> ...What would the pseudo-righteous "indignantaries" here have the President give her instead? Replica of the White House in alabaster? John Hancock's body with a stake driven through his heart? Perhaps give Virginia back? :icon_smile:


ROFALOL! No, not Virginia...Connecticut perhaps...get rid of a few of those darn liberals in the process!


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Howard said:


> What kind of music does Queen of England listen to?


I once read that her music tastes are far more current than one would expect. I now have this vision of her, white ear buds in place under a huge hat, listening to Mary J. Blige while reviewing troops.

A thought did occur to me yesterday while running...maybe the Obamas are just very practical gift-givers. Her Majesty probably has several palaces full of antiques and chotchkeys she'll never use. I am sure at at several points during her reign she has said to herself, "Great...another antique document. Gee...didn't expect that. Whoo-whoo!"

I would imagine someone in her position probably does need to have a "wish list" at the ready...rather funny (dare I say "hip"?) that a new iPod would be a longed-for item. We've gotten so used to our world leaders giving each other high-value artifacts or other types of expensive gifts, maybe practicality is a new trend in these depressing economic times.

I hear Nicolas Sarkozy is "jonesin'" for a value-pack of Gold Toe black dress socks.:icon_smile_big:


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

I think we're missing the fact that there was no white-tie event for the Queen's visit.

Also, an iPod? I'm embarrassed. Perhaps next time the Queen can bring Guitar Hero and they call play together.


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## Helvetia (Apr 8, 2008)

The Queen gives signed pictures of herself to all visiting heads of state. I think she got the better gift here. Seriously, these are trinkets of kindness - the idea isn;t to trade Ming Dynasty relics.


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## welldressedfellow (May 28, 2008)

I hope he at least had the good sense and respect to refer to Her as Your Majesty or Ma'am and not Liz or something along those lines.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Jovan said:


> Look, gents. I realise I'm fairly liberal, there are many more conservatives here, and that I am disliked for it.


You aren't disliked by me and I'm quite conservative. :icon_smile:

The whole concept of liking or disliking someone because of their politics is so childish. There are good, honest, decent liberals and there are good, honest, decent conservatives. If Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill could be friends who not only respected but genuinely liked each other, I see no reason that liberals and conservatives today can't do the same.

As for the President, he has not embarrassed me. I am almost universally against his policies (being a conservative), but I haven't found anything that either he or the First Lady have done with regard to their representation of the United States to be embarrassing in any way.

Cruiser


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## super k (Feb 12, 2004)

Nothing says pride in the USA like an electronic gadget made in the sweatshops of China


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

super k said:


> Nothing says pride in the USA like an electronic gadget made in the sweatshops of China


I can't say for sure, but I suspect the actual "gift" was not the iPod itself but rather carefully selected music representative of America that was loaded into the iPod. The iPod may have simply been the vehicle by which that music was transported.

For example, CDs given to the Prime Minister were carefully selected to represent classic American music. The gift wasn't the actual CDs themselves but the music recorded on them.

Actually the same complaint you make might possibly be made about the Queen's gift to the President. The gift was the signed picture, but how do we know that the frame, the glass in the frame, or the photography equipment to produce the picture didn't come, at least in part, from some country other than England; perhaps even China?

Cruiser


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

lets see the queen had an ipod with no video

the queen asks for a new one

obama gives her one with video of her visit to the US and she gives him a picture of her

time to get over yourselves dudes 

embarassed? by a president who gives a present thats requested - you crack me up

i mean it's not like he started a war for no reason or ignored the geneva convention


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

brokencycle said:


> I think we're missing the fact that there was no white-tie event for the Queen's visit.
> 
> Also, an iPod? I'm embarrassed. Perhaps next time the Queen can bring Guitar Hero and they call play together.


The Sex Pistol's God Save the Queen? :icon_smile_big:


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

_Mrs. Obama clearly made an impression with the 82-year-old monarch - so much that the smiling queen strayed slightly from protocol and briefly wrapped her arm around the first lady in a rare public show of affection.

_It seems the Queen was so offended by the ipod gift that she broke with tradition and hugged the first lady. _

_https://https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090402/ap_on_re_eu/g20_michelle_obama


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## Prisoner of Zendaline (Dec 8, 2008)

*We should be surprized?*

For a president who is adored by nitwits worldwide, such an action will have the same effect as when ET ate Reece's Pieces. Sales will soar. His gift amounts to a plug for IPOD, worth tens of millions of dollars, and....as usual....at taxpayers' expense.

This creature has demonstrated, time and again, that he is entirely in the service of corporate interests. And every downmarket CD he gave away was also a plug benefitting someone who owns part of him.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

obiwan said:


> Where are the Dixie Chicks with their outrage and embarrassment, oh yeah that was only for Bushie.
> 
> Obama is a disaster and our only hope is the GOP can reclaim enough seats to stop him from leading us to ruin.


Dixie Chicks- Ha Ha Ha.

The GOP needs to stop acting like Democrats, spend spend, spend and all that spending into debt is taxing. Bush claims he didn't raise taxes. Bahumbug, putting us into debt is raising taxes. Need somebody like Newt Gingrich to straighten them out.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Helvetia said:


> The Queen gives signed pictures of herself to all visiting heads of state. I think she got the better gift here. Seriously, these are trinkets of kindness - the idea isn;t to trade Ming Dynasty relics.


Indeed, an ipod seems a fair exchange in the described exchange. If I'm 'jonesin' to hang an 8" x 10" color glossy of a woman, other than my wife, in the house, it's not going to be of Queen Elizabeth...Elizabeth Hurley, perhaps, but not Queen Elizabeth!


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

WA said:


> Need somebody like Newt Gingrich to straighten them out.


You may be right! One of my wife's childhood friends used to work for Gingrich...says he's brilliant.

I wonder if The Queen listens to her iPod during dinner to avoid talking with her family.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

They Like Us! They Really Do Like Us Now! :icon_smile_big:


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## rlp271 (Feb 12, 2009)

I didn't think we'd be so petty as to tear apart someone's gift giving taste. I'd much rather he pay attention to the state of the economy, or his proposed plan to keep US soldiers in Afghanastan for a very very long time. Or you know, the important things.

On a side note, the Queen gives the SAME gift to every single dignitary that passes through. You'd think someone would have said something about that by now, but she's the Queen of England, so I guess she gets a pass where our President (not representative of an oppressive, dated, feudal, monarchial tradition) gets scrutinized for giving a gift approved by the Queen's own people, and his staff.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

TMMKC said:


> I once read that her music tastes are far more current than one would expect. I now have this vision of her, white ear buds in place under a huge hat, listening to Mary J. Blige while reviewing troops.
> 
> A thought did occur to me yesterday while running...maybe the Obamas are just very practical gift-givers. Her Majesty probably has several palaces full of antiques and chotchkeys she'll never use. I am sure at at several points during her reign she has said to herself, "Great...another antique document. Gee...didn't expect that. Whoo-whoo!"
> 
> ...


I mean at her age,shouldn't she be listening to something like Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin?


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## 14395 (Mar 10, 2004)

welldressedfellow said:


> I hope he at least had the good sense and respect to refer to Her as Your Majesty or Ma'am and not Liz or something along those lines.


 :icon_smile:
He called more than one woman "sweetie" during the campaign.


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## Xhine23 (Jan 17, 2008)

Prisoner of Zendaline said:


> This *creature *has demonstrated, time and again, that he is entirely in the service of corporate interests. And every downmarket CD he gave away was also a plug benefitting someone who owns part of him.


Whether you like it or not he's the president of United States of America.
You seem unconscious of your surroundings and reality. Ignoring Rush might be the required remedy.


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

super k said:


> Nothing says pride in the USA like an electronic gadget made in the sweatshops of China


Thank you! That is a wonderful point made quite succinctly.


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## Kosh Naranek (Apr 24, 2008)

Xhine23 said:


> Whether you like it or not he's the president of United States of America.
> You seem unconscious of your surroundings and reality. Ignoring Rush might be the required remedy.


A lot of the people in these threads suffer from paranoid (and sadly in a few cases racial) hysteria and are hopping about like amphetamine crazed fox terriers.

Unfortunately for them they are going to have a tough couple of decades per this: https://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/20771.html


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

Kosh Naranek said:


> A lot of the people in these threads suffer from paranoid (and sadly in a few cases racial) hysteria and are hopping about like amphetamine crazed fox terriers.
> 
> Unfortunately for them they are going to have a tough couple of decades per this: https://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/20771.html


yer a co-mu-nist, aint cha?

LOL a polotico link dude they gonna stone ya


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I don't agree with Obama's policies, but when we attack his choice of gifts, etc. instead of his policies, it makes it difficult to take us seriously when we try to point out where his policies are dangerous. 

(Anne Coulter and Rush, you may want to think about this so you can argue effectively instead of appearing to be salivating.)


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## Mr. H (Aug 27, 2007)

Look, friends, if she got over the shoddy security the LAPD and Detective Frank Drebbin provided her during her 1988 visit to Los Angeles, she'll get over this apparent non-incident as well. I don't think the gifting of an iPod ranks up there with nearly being assassinated by Reggie Jackson.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Mr. H said:


> Look, friends, if she got over the shoddy security the LAPD and Detective Frank Drebbin provided her during her 1988 visit to Los Angeles, she'll get over this apparent non-incident as well. I don't think the gifting of an iPod ranks up there with nearly being assassinated by Reggie Jackson.


Her Majesty throws a mean curve ball!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mr. H said:


> Look, friends, if she got over the shoddy security the LAPD and Detective Frank Drebbin provided her during her 1988 visit to Los Angeles, she'll get over this apparent non-incident as well. I don't think the gifting of an iPod ranks up there with nearly being assassinated by Reggie Jackson.


Sadly this is not only one of the funnier posts in this thread, it is also one of the more intellectually defensible...Oh my!


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## gman-17 (Jan 29, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I don't agree with Obama's policies, but when we attack his choice of gifts, etc. instead of his policies, it makes it difficult to take us seriously when we try to point out where his policies are dangerous.
> 
> (Anne Coulter and Rush, you may want to think about this so you can argue effectively instead of appearing to be salivating.)


Generally speaking I would agree with you. However. Mr. Obama has, for some unknown reason, taken to, in the vernacular, dissing the Brits. I am not sure what the game is but it is a poor short, mid and long term strategy. People here can clamor about his brilliance and his elan but why does he alway appear to be a naif on the world stage. So far the Bambi routine has worked, but my recent trip to Europe tells me most are growing weary of it.


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## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

I've heard he loaded it with his greatest hits of campaign speeches as well. There needs to be a democratic bloodbath in the next elections. Two years of him throwing temper tantrums and an ever increasing Huggy Bear Hitch in his walk could be amusing! 

By the way, does anyone know how Europe reacted to him saying the only thing between them (the politicians) and the pitch forks was his administration? I can only imagine how that went over.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Mr. H said:


> Look, friends, if she got over the shoddy security the LAPD and Detective Frank Drebbin provided her during her 1988 visit to Los Angeles, she'll get over this apparent non-incident as well. I don't think the gifting of an iPod ranks up there with nearly being assassinated by Reggie Jackson.


What ever happened to Pap Shmear?


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Kosh Naranek said:


> A lot of the people in these threads suffer from paranoid (and sadly in a few cases racial) hysteria and are hopping about like amphetamine crazed fox terriers.
> 
> Unfortunately for them they are going to have a tough couple of decades per this: https://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/20771.html


 Great find...that article is spot on.

 This very idea that the guard is changing in this country is expressed perfectly in the tug of war that has been taking place on this board over the last year or so.

 We see less and less discussions about bespoke suits and how to choose a dinner jacket and opera pumps, and more posts about jeans, casual clothing, and ways to look good on a budget. Just as we see the once powerful republican base of older, suburban, white men, with money and long standing conservative beliefs are slowly becoming the minority in this country, replaced by multi ethnic immigrants and more liberal minded urban dwellers.

The republican leadership has been very slow to realize this, and the longer it takes them to embrace a new direction that appeals to the changing American electorate - the more ground they give up and the more elections they will lose.

The fact the most of the posters on this board can't admit that, shows just how deeply republicans have their collective heads buried in the sand.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

mrkleen said:


> We see less and less discussions about bespoke suits and how to choose a dinner jacket and opera pumps, and more posts about jeans, casual clothing, and ways to look good on a budget.
> 
> The fact the most of the posters on this board can't admit that, shows just how deeply republicans have their collective heads buried in the sand.


At the same time I have been accused by many of being the ringleader or guiding force (which I'm not) of this change in focus of the forum, and yet I'm a conservative Republican. Heck, I work for a conservative Republican politician. Go figure. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> At the same time I have been accused by many of being the ringleader or guiding force (which I'm not) of this change in focus of the forum, and yet I'm a conservative Republican. Heck, I work for a conservative Republican politician. Go figure. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Cruiser


The difference with you Cruiser is that you are an imminently fair person, that can disagree with people without being disagreeable - a trait I wish I could apply myself more often than I do.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I don't agree with Obama's policies, but when we attack his choice of gifts, etc. instead of his policies, it makes it difficult to take us seriously when we try to point out where his policies are dangerous.
> 
> (Anne Coulter and Rush, you may want to think about this so you can argue effectively instead of appearing to be salivating.)


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## bbcrock (Feb 13, 2009)

Wall said:


> Seriously, an I Pod as the gift to the QUEEN OF ENGLAND. I Pods make great gifts to teenagers and college students and people who love gadgets. Heck you can even give them to people who just don't have one.
> Obama and his team can think of nothing better than an I Pod, how embarrassing.
> https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_...bamas_gift_for_the_queen_an_ipod_your_majesty


You have to be joking. If you aren't educated enough to understand the gift then I can't help you.

Why might the United States take pride in the ipod?

A gift for college students! ha, do you really think the queen would use any gift given to her or do you understand that diplomatic gifts are symbolic.

Yeah, the queen is going to put on the earbuds. In the US the president doesn't really own any of the gifts he's given and they end up at his presidential library, owned by the United States.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

bbcrock said:


> * Why might the United States take pride in the ipod?*


I can think of things other than a iPod that America can take pride in. Diplomatic gifts are symbolic, yes. Actually, Obama gave the gift that all of Europe, in fact the world, has been dying for; he gave them an apology and moral justification of 30 years of anti-Americanism. Its been Europe's wet dream for an American president to come over, humble himself in the name of his country, and say that the ills of the world are rooted in American foreign policy.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

pt4u67 said:


> Actually, Obama gave the gift that all of Europe, in fact the world, has been dying for; he gave them an apology and moral justification of 30 years of anti-Americanism. Its been Europe's wet dream for an American president to come over, humble himself in the name of his country, and say that the ills of the world are rooted in American foreign policy.


Funny how America gets blamed for so many of the world's problems, yet our most vocal critics are first in line to ask for our help. In return for Obama's misdirected humility, I guess it was too much ask that the wacky president of the EU apologize to America for being a pack of snarky hypocrites.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

TMMKC said:


> Funny how America gets blamed for so many of the world's problems, yet our most vocal critics are first in line to ask for our help. In return for Obama's misdirected humility, I guess it was too much ask that the wacky president of the EU apologize to America for being a pack of snarky hypocrites.


More fuel for the indignitaries! Bill O'Reilly though it was a balanced remark. Here is what the President actually said:

"In America, there is a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive. But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual, but can also be insidious. Instead of recognising the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what is bad. On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common."

--UK Times Transcription

It is a hell of a lot easier to become less dissmissive and arrogant than it is to get rid of something "insidious" that is also culturally casual. What continent do you think will have the harder time changing their attitude that has "become all too common"?

America's President showing emotional and intellectual maturity will surely rank ahead of the resounding silence from Europe's leaders regarding their past and often unjustifiable anti-Americanism. (Rumor has it that the current wacky EU Czech president found and consumed the former Japanese Finance minister's secret sake stash.)

It is fun to read all of the "analysis" of this remark, though. People see what they want to see.


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## oktagon (Mar 9, 2005)

How about a waist bow he gave Saudi king? He may even have kissed his hand.
What an embarrassment of a president!

[FLASH=425,344,"https://www.youtube.com/v/S60U-hl35Gw"]


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Quay said:


> More fuel for the indignitaries! Bill O'Reilly though it was a balanced remark. Here is what the President actually said:
> 
> "In America, there is a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive. But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual, but can also be insidious. Instead of recognising the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what is bad. On both sides of the Atlantic, these attitudes have become all too common."
> 
> ...


We're all aware of the whole statement, but the part about America is what will be remembered by our enemies. Diplomacy and politics don't adhere to the Marquess of Queensberry rules.

It doesn't matter that Obama balanced out his criticism with a comment about Europe. Europe doesn't matter, we matter. Radicalized Muslims could care less about European attitudes toward the U.S. What they hear is that the American President has confirmed their view of the U.S.; that it is an arrogant hyper power that bullies smaller nations.

Just wait, soon he will make a speech similar to this in a Muslim country, likely Turkey, where he will apologize for American middle east policy. This will serve as nothing more but a license for Iran, Al Qaeda and Hezbollah to ramp up terrorist operations because, after all, the American President has confirmed what they have been saying for years.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

pt4u67 said:


> We're all aware of the whole statement, but the part about America is what will be remembered by our enemies. Diplomacy and politics don't adhere to the Marquess of Queensberry rules.


Awareness of something and critical understanding of it are two different things.



> ...Europe doesn't matter, we matter.....


 Europe seems to matter to the Europeans.



> Radicalized Muslims could care less about European attitudes toward the U.S. What they hear is that the American President has confirmed their view of the U.S.; that it is an arrogant hyper power that bullies smaller nations.


If the Radicalized Muslims are hearing this same "confirmation" you are hearing than I guess you have more in common with their way of thinking than you might realize. In fact, it seems from a reading of the various reactions to this remark reported in the media that American "conservatives" and these Radicalized Muslims are the only ones in complete agreement about what the President meant. Strange bedfellows indeed!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

What else could he have given the Queen besides an Ipod?


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## rlp271 (Feb 12, 2009)

Quay said:


> Europe seems to matter to the Europeans.


I think pt4u67's point is really that America should matter to Americans. It's ok for the Europeans to be Euro-centric, but an American who is all for a pro-American, isolationist stance is labeled a right-wing nutjob.

It's not just nationalism at stake here, it's what's good for the country. Too many Americans are willing to overlook things like health care and insurance, because they're more worried about America staying a world power. Citizens of the United States are used to seeing their country as the absolute pinnacle of world power. The time to police the world is over. In the face of millions without health insurance, rising health care costs, unemployment going up at an astronomical rate, America needs to take care of America.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

Quay said:


> Europe seems to matter to the Europeans.





rlp271 said:


> I think pt4u67's point is really that America should matter to Americans. It's ok for the Europeans to be Euro-centric, but an American who is all for a pro-American, isolationist stance is labeled a right-wing nutjob.


Actually my point was that Europe really doesn't matter anymore. They have spent themselves into oblivion and have neither the military or economic muscle in order to effect the world. Their birth rate is in decline and have lost their religion. Their great cathedrals are now merely tourist attractions.

Quay, Europe may matter to the Europeans but so does Zanzibar matter to the Zanzibarans. That doesn't mean that they deserve a seat at the grown ups table anymore. I'm not suggesting we ignore Europe, but there is no reason to go over there and apologize.

What can Europe really do for us? They have their own politics to consider. They will, as they always do, pay lip service to helping developing countries, helping to stop weapons proliferation and helping with international security efforts. They will then do nothing.

Europe's days are behind them. Europe is now a great big museum with a great food court.

rlp271, if the U.S. does not act as the world's "policeman", then who will. Before you answer consider the real world and not some fantasy world where mutual understanding and respect transcends national self interest. Into the vacuum left by America will pour in China or Russia. Do you really think that world will be safer with those countries at the helm. They are the world's greatest enablers of mischief, to wit Darfur, Iran and North Korea.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

I wont' argue about Europe being somehow irrelevant, especially by a number of measures that their combined economy is now larger than the US. But if we have to face a bunch of folks like the Czech EU president instead of the likes of Talleyrand or even Mitterand then I guess I'd vote for separate (if all adult) tables, too.



pt4u67 said:


> ...Into the vacuum left by America will pour in China or Russia. Do you really think that world will be safer with those countries at the helm. They are the world's greatest enablers of mischief, to wit Darfur, Iran and North Korea.


_Will _pour? In the case of China, they're already fully here as our largest creditor. Did anyone else notice that they refer to it all as their "assets" that need protecting and guaranteeing instead of their treasury notes? As a bank owns you until you pay the mortgage so does the government of China own our butts right now. Personally I hope they continue to be the closet "capitalist roaders" they deny they actually are and re-discover their own heritage which was nearly wiped out of generational memory by the ill-named Cultural Revolution. The people of China could be a great and good force in the world if they got rid of their government, rediscovered things like _The Analects of Confucius _and turned those thousands of years of complex and beautiful history to better use.

Hopefully the new adminstration will not be so punked by China as the last two ones were.

Oh and yes, they do know how to assemble a good iPod that was "Designed in California." :icon_smile:


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## the420skipper (Mar 14, 2009)

Quay said:


> I wont' argue about Europe being somehow irrelevant, especially by a number of measures that their combined economy is now larger than the US. But if we have to face a bunch of folks like the Czech EU president instead of the likes of Talleyrand or even Mitterand then I guess I'd vote for separate (if all adult) tables, too.
> 
> _Will _pour? In the case of China, they're already fully here as our largest creditor. Did anyone else notice that they refer to it all as their "assets" that need protecting and guaranteeing instead of their treasury notes? As a bank owns you until you pay the mortgage so does the government of China own our butts right now. Personally I hope they continue to be the closet "capitalist roaders" they deny they actually are and re-discover their own heritage which was nearly wiped out of generational memory by the ill-named Cultural Revolution. The people of China could be a great and good force in the world if they got rid of their government, rediscovered things like _The Analects of Confucius _and turned those thousands of years of complex and beautiful history to better use.
> 
> ...


I don't really understand your point about Chinese culture, but your argument that China "owns" the US because China's central bank owns a lot of US Treasury notes is just silly. It's a (by magnitudes) overly simplistic view of economics.


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## rlp271 (Feb 12, 2009)

pt4u67 said:


> rlp271, if the U.S. does not act as the world's "policeman", then who will. Before you answer consider the real world and not some fantasy world where mutual understanding and respect transcends national self interest. Into the vacuum left by America will pour in China or Russia. Do you really think that world will be safer with those countries at the helm. They are the world's greatest enablers of mischief, to wit Darfur, Iran and North Korea.


You are right, someone else will step into that role. Every country has its days of glory, and the United States seem to be past theirs. You keep talking about Europe as a place that's lost religion, is no longer relevant, etc. I think you should take a good long look at the US while you're at it. Just in the last week, how many shootings have their been across the country? Let's start in Binghamton, go to Pittsburgh, and then look to Washington.

And if you think China is the world's greatest enabler, then you are clearly in a much brighter dream world than I. You mention Darfur, but ignore Kenya, just like the rest of America. You mention Iran, but ignore the fact that Palestine and Israel are in their own little tiff. North Korea is on the verge of its own collapse, and South Koreans, who would be affected by it in a far deeper way culturally, emotionally, and economically than the United States, hasn't even batted an eyelash yet.

The world was well and good before the United States was a "super power," and they will be well and good after. No country can be the world's babysitter forever. You can go back to the days of Rome, Egypt, Alexander the Great, Ghengis Khan, the great emperors of China, the Meiji Restoration in Japan, and the list goes on. No one's power is absolute. Maybe people in the United States should start to admit that to themselves, before they go spouting off on their soapbox about what's good for the rest of the world.


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## rlp271 (Feb 12, 2009)

Quay said:


> The people of China could be a great and good force in the world if they got rid of their government, rediscovered things like _The Analects of Confucius _and turned those thousands of years of complex and beautiful history to better use.


I think that's more than wishful thinking. Tthe Analects, the book of Changes, the teachings of Laozi, etc. are all deeply rooted in China's history, but only because of their then contemporary meanings. Those teachings were all created, because of the Spring and Autumn and Warring States Periods of Chinese history. They were meant to be teachings on how to be a good person at a time of constant and violent warfare. While it's true that the morality of these books can be applied to modern thought, there's very little use in "rediscovering" them. It's like trying to truly apply Plato's teachings to today's western world.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

rlp271 said:


> I think that's more than wishful thinking....


I think anyone's postings whose signature contains a quote from "The Art of War" should not be read on face value. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

the420skipper said:


> I don't really understand your point about Chinese culture, but your argument that China "owns" the US because China's central bank owns a lot of US Treasury notes is just silly. It's a (by magnitudes) overly simplistic view of economics.


You're sort of new here, eh? This is The Interchange. Looking for understanding or anything other than simplistic things is, largely, a fool's errand.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Quay said:


> This is The Interchange. Looking for understanding or anything other than simplistic things is, largely, a fool's errand.


Truer words have seldom been written in this fora.


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

Wall said:


> Seriously, an I Pod as the gift to the QUEEN OF ENGLAND. I Pods make great gifts to teenagers and college students and people who love gadgets. Heck you can even give them to people who just don't have one.
> Obama and his team can think of nothing better than an I Pod, how embarrassing.
> https://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_...bamas_gift_for_the_queen_an_ipod_your_majesty


I thought politics was taboo in this venue? I thought this was about clothes and style?


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

chava said:


> I thought politics was taboo in this venue? I thought this was about clothes and style?


Read the description of The Interchange. There are a few forums on AAAC that are NOT about clothing.


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## chava (Mar 17, 2009)

TMMKC said:


> Read the description of The Interchange. There are a few forums on AAAC that are NOT about clothing.


Yep. My mistake. I don't get the cheap gifts snafu either. It just seems to be common sense, that any gift to a head of state should be tasteful and appropriate for the event. Not an ipod, or trinket from the White House gift shop. Bad taste.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

chava said:


> Yep. My mistake. I don't get the cheap gifts snafu either. It just seems to be common sense, that any gift to a head of state should be tasteful and appropriate for the event. Not an ipod, or trinket from the White House gift shop. Bad taste.


:deadhorse-a:

Since it wasn't an official state visit by the Obamas to the UK, maybe the rules are more lax regarding gift-giving in that context. Though I (and I gather a lot of people like yourself) agree that it was an odd gift choice for one head of state to give another. But if Her Majesty apprciated it...who's to complain? I guess we'll never know.

I wonder if Queen Elizabeth ever tells Prince Philip to bugger off because she's busy illegally downloading songs from Limewire.


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## rlp271 (Feb 12, 2009)

Quay said:


> I think anyone's postings whose signature contains a quote from "The Art of War" should not be read on face value. :icon_smile_wink:


Haha, you may be quite right about that. I spent most of my time at university nosing through the Analects, the Art of War, the I-China, and various works by Laozi, Mencius, etc. That's not to say I actually understand them, just read them multiple times for multiple classes. The quote is actually a favorite of my martial arts instructor, who of course encouraged us to read both the Art of War and the Hagakure at least once a year.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

"OK, Barack and Michelle - it's my turn now.

"As long as you seem to be on the road of informality, throwing tradition, etiquette, proper diplomacy, protocol and common sense out the window and replacing it with 21st century casual, I'm taking the liberty, as an American citizen, to give you a message from my heart: stop it!"

https://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=94022


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

Consider the source.

Also, it seems rather bizarre to complain about how he approached the king of Saudi Arabia (too subservient) and, in almost the same breath, how she approached the queen of England (not subservient enough).

As for gifts, and just pretending for a second that the people at World Nut Daily could be satisfied with anything he does, maybe he should take to giving out autographed photos, as the queen of England seems to prefer.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

As so many herein seem inclined to criticise the choice of a "State" gift, in this instance, what would you have chosen as an appropriate gift?


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

chava said:


> I don't get the cheap gifts snafu either. It just seems to be common sense, that any gift to a head of state should be tasteful and appropriate for the event. Not an ipod, or trinket from the White House gift shop. Bad taste.


Once again, the gift wasn't the iPod; it was the collection of American music that was loaded into the iPod. The iPod was merely the vehicle for transporting the music.

How come nobody is complaining about the Queen giving the President a picture frame for crying out loud. Wait, it was the portrait that was put into the frame that was the gift, not the frame.

Cruiser


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Once again, the gift wasn't the iPod; it was the collection of American music that was loaded into the iPod. The iPod was merely the vehicle for transporting the music.
> 
> How come nobody is complaining about the Queen giving the President a picture frame for crying out loud. Wait, it was the portrait that was put into the frame that was the gift, not the frame.
> 
> Cruiser


A) Put two items on ebay: 1) an ipod with 40 broadway tunes pre-loaded and 2) a personally autographed photo of the Queen in a sterling silver frame. See which one you get more for.

B) It's true the Queen's gift was more of a souvenier, but the Queen's people say they intentionally under-gifted after the snafu with PM Brown over-gifting.

I actually think if Obama really dislikes the formality and ritual he should have simply not given a gift. The same as the black-tie issue. If he doesn't want to wear black tie; then do as Brown does and wear a suit, not a tuxedo with a non-black tie. He ends up in limbo and looking like he is half-way doing everything. If he wants to shun formality, then do it! Get it over with; and don't just fail at trying to be formal. He is not finding a "happy medium" in my opinion. An informal gift is something like a bottle of wine, not a cheaper present.

When was the last time you met friends and gave them some showtunes on an ipod? If he's trying to be like us, then be like us. Most of America thinks Robert Mondavi Chardonnay or Merlot is more than acceptable as a friendship gift.

Obama's presents are like "secret santa" office pool gifts. He should either give something much more thoughtful or much more commoditized IMHO. How about a gift certificate to Ruth's Chris? 

The Queen:Obama relationship is somewhat more like my relationships with my CFOs. I give them a dozen of their favorite golfballs or their favorite cigar brand whichever they prefer. If he wants to make the Presidency less regal and more corporate; I am all for that. This is something I thought Romney would do; although I was hoping more along the lines of modernizing the cabinet; CEO, CFO, COO, CTO, CIO ...


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

ksinc said:


> B) It's true the Queen's gift was more of a souvenier, but the Queen's people say they intentionally under-gifted after the snafu with PM Brown over-gifting.


Gordon Brown has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The picture the Queen gave the president is a silver-framed photograph of herself and her husband, the same official picture she gives *all *visiting dignitaries.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7973178.stm


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> Gordon Brown has absolutely nothing to do with it.
> 
> The picture the Queen gave the president is a silver-framed photograph of herself and her husband, the same official picture she gives *all *visiting dignitaries.
> 
> https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7973178.stm


The story I read said they under-gifted in anticipation, but I will probably never find it again. It said it had a source in the palace.

Perhaps the truth is in the middle; and that's the default gift for dignitaries, but the POTUS is usually more special?

I do remember it said Bush received a plate of some kind with an enscription about Texas.

I tried to search and I even went to the White House site for his November 2003 visit and I can't confirm any gift exchange of any kind.

Obama must have Rahm purging the Internets! 

I did find something that said the first time W met the Queen his Father was still President. Maybe that changes things too?


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

I dont know, but would refer to the BBC as the source on the monarchy.

She gave the same gift to the president of France

Mr Sarkozy received framed blocks of stamps issued in 2004 by the British and French postal services to mark the 100th anniversary of the "Entente Cordiale" *and silver framed photographs of the Queen and her husband, Prince Philip.
*https://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23439015-663,00.html


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> As so many herein seem inclined to criticise the choice of a "State" gift, in this instance, what would you have chosen as an appropriate gift?


Maybe something that has nothing to do with electronics.Something like a cake or pie would be appropriate.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Just don't trip when presenting it to Her Majesty!


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

ksinc said:


> ...The Queen:Obama relationship is somewhat more like my relationships with my CFOs....


This is such a delightful example of hubris (in the original sense used in Greek tragedy) that I feel it must be mentioned again. I may even have to put it in my signature line here. :icon_smile:

This thread delivers!


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Quay said:


> This is such a delightful example of hubris (in the original sense used in Greek tragedy) that I feel it must be mentioned again. I may even have to put it in my signature line here. :icon_smile:
> 
> This thread delivers!


Yes; you should definitely do that.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> I dont know, but would refer to the BBC as the source on the monarchy.
> 
> She gave the same gift to the president of France
> 
> ...


So, the photograph and a 2nd gift = just the photograph? You lost me there.


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

I can only imagine the sheer volume of boring sovenir type gifts the queen must receive daily that she couldn't care less about and has her servants store in a back room somewhere. If she actually wanted an iPod, that alone makes it a great gift. There's nothing worse then a gift you don't really want, no matter how "proper" it is.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

ksinc said:


> So, the photograph and a 2nd gift = just the photograph? You lost me there.


Right the same photograph....AND some stamps commemorating a historical French/English agreement signed in 1904.

That article was from 2008. The point being, the photo is what the Queen gives year after year to every visiting dignitary, not some "under gift" as you suggested.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

omairp said:


> I can only imagine the sheer volume of boring sovenir type gifts the queen must receive daily that she couldn't care less about and has her servants store in a back room somewhere. If she actually wanted an iPod, that alone makes it a great gift. There's nothing worse then a gift you don't really want, no matter how "proper" it is.


Actually, the point of the Ipod was that it was an easy way to provide the Queen with a large selection of American Musicals, as well as a collection of photos from the Queen's last visit to the United States.

In addition, President Obama also gave the Queen *a rare musical songbook signed by Richard Rodgers.*

As usual, the part about the valuable songbook and the fact that the Ipod was essentially a portable hard drive loaded with very personal artifacts that the Queen would be happy to receive was left out of most reports.

Uploaded onto the iPod:


Photos from the Queen's 2007 White House State Visit
Photos from the Queen's 2007 Jamestown, Va., Visit
Photos from the Queen's 2007 Richmond, Va., Visit
Video from the Queen's 1957 Jamestown Visit
Video from the Queen's 2007 Jamestown Visit
Video from the Queen's 2007 Richmond Visit
Photos and videos from the recent inauguration ceremony and concerts


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

mrkleen said:


> Actually, the point of the Ipod was that it was an easy way to provide the Queen with a large selection of American Musicals, as well as a collection of photos from the Queen's last visit to the United States.


This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. Folks are acting like Obama just went out to Best Buy, bought an iPod, wrapped it up, and gave it to the Queen. The gift was what was loaded on the iPod, not the iPod.

Having said that, there is certainly nothing wrong with thinking that giving the music and pictures represented an inappropriate gift; but at least focus on the actual gift itself and not the paper it was wrapped in.

Of course it's obvious to me that to some here no matter what Obama does it's going to be right, while to others no matter what he does it's going to be wrong. Unfortunately it's this type thinking that has helped put us in the position we are in today, and neither left nor right can claim any moral high ground.

Cruiser


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Just don't trip when presenting it to Her Majesty!


Then she'll have her cake and eat it too.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Of course it's obvious to me that to some here no matter what Obama does it's going to be right, while to others no matter what he does it's going to be wrong. Unfortunately it's this type thinking that has helped put us in the position we are in today, and neither left nor right can claim any moral high ground.
> 
> Cruiser


I had to laugh at this because it's true, but it's also so distorted in my view. I think there are far more people that think Obama can't do anything wrong, then think Obama can't do anything right. I know so many Conservatives that have or still are giving Obama a chance and repeating this "he's going to govern from the center" malarky.

I honestly think it's racism/guilt, but that's just my opinion. I tend to be a 'hard ass' on everybody and I don't hold Obama to a higher or lower standard than any other President.

I was just thinking the other day, remember back when Clinton was 'messing' with National Parks and some people were saying "he's giving away our Country, American is going to have a UN flag flying over it soon?" The new FSB is much closer to this than anything Clinton ever did. It's just an honest assessment of what O&G are doing. I haven't read the liberal reply to it, but I doubt they are throwing stuff at the man yet. The most I ever do is read Paglia's column. I don't agree with her all the time, but at least she has some principles, her articles are pleasant to read, and she makes a point other than "Bush is the devil."

Yes; I do know you identify as a 'Conservative Republican', Cruiser. So, I'm not picking on you.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> Right the same photograph....AND some stamps commemorating a historical French/English agreement signed in 1904.
> 
> That article was from 2008. The point being, the photo is what the Queen gives year after year to every visiting dignitary, not some "under gift" as you suggested.


You aren't seeing my question, which is: If she gives the photo as a default gift to "everyone" and she felt Sarkozy needed something a little "extra", then why not POTUS?

The rare and sentimental stamps seem thoughtful and appropriate, don't they? Why not something "extra" like that for POTUS? I must repeat that by reports she gave Bush something about Texas... probably also in addition to the standard photo.

Your argument is that Obama didn't just give her an ipod with American culture pre-loaded, but also a signed songbook. I think that's something "extra" too. I'm willing to not try to have it both ways with the ipod, so should you be?


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

ksinc said:


> You aren't seeing my question, which is: If she gives the photo as a default gift to "everyone" and she felt Sarkozy needed something a little "extra", then why not POTUS?
> 
> The rare and sentimental stamps seem thoughtful and appropriate, don't they? Why not something "extra" like that for POTUS? I must repeat that by reports she gave Bush something about Texas... probably also in addition to the standard photo.


They were not some random set of rare stamps. They were stamps that commemorated a treaty signed between France and England - and their release happened to coincide with President Sarkozy's visit.

You are trying really had to dig deeper into this, to justify your false belief that the queen was trying to "snub" President Obama in some way. I am sure now that they have met and gotten to know each other a bit, that the next time the President visits England - the Queen will have a more personal gift for him to accompany another framed picture.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> Of course it's obvious to me that to some here no matter what Obama does it's going to be right, while to others no matter what he does it's going to be wrong. Unfortunately it's this type thinking that has helped put us in the position we are in today, and neither left nor right can claim any moral high ground.
> 
> Cruiser


Completely agree, and I am embarrassed to say I am guilty of this myself.

It is part of the American way these days that not only do you have to win the game, but you have to humiliate your opponent so badly that the next time your teams meet, that opponent is salivating at the opportunity to destroy your team and laugh about it. And the cycle of taking things like sport and politics personally just gets worse and worse.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> They were not some random set of rare stamps. They were stamps that commemorated a treaty signed between France and England - and their release happened to coincide with President Sarkozy's visit.
> 
> You are trying really had to dig deeper into this, to justify your false belief that the queen was trying to "snub" President Obama in some way. I am sure now that they have met and gotten to know each other a bit, that the next time the President visits England - the Queen will have a more personal gift for him to accompany another framed picture.


No; I get the point they are rare stamps. So, it was more than just the standard photo. You seem to be trying to have it both ways; they all just get the standard photo; and Sarkozy got the standard photo and something really special. Sarkozy is a nice guy, but he's not POTUS.

Which was the point I was making about me and CFOs. We pretend to be peers, but let's face it, I'm buying a guy lunch and giving him golfballs that makes 10-20x what I make. Just as Obama is acting like the Queen is more powerful than he; when he runs the world now, not her. There is clearly a superior party in the transaction as they try to act like peers and colleagues. It's all too corporate.

Well, of course, next time neither will want this sort of publicity. That's a given. I'm hoping Obama will give her Rhode Island. 

I also did not say the Queen "snubbed" Obama. Quite the opposite, I said they claimed to have under-gifted intentionally out of anticipation; in order to save him embarrassment if he repeated what he did to Brown.

Thanks for the "justify self belief" bit though.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

ksinc said:


> No; I get the point they are rare stamps. So, it was more than just the standard photo. You seem to be trying to have it both ways; they all just get the standard photo; and Sarkozy got the standard photo and something really special. Sarkozy is a nice guy, but he's not POTUS.
> 
> Which was the point I was making about me and CFOs. We pretend to be peers, but let's face it, I'm buying a guy lunch and giving him golfballs that makes 10-20x what I make. Just as Obama is acting like the Queen is more powerful than he; when he runs the world now, not her. There is clearly a superior party in the transaction as they try to act like peers and colleagues. It's all too corporate.
> 
> ...


Sorry if President Obama isnt on enough of a "American the Mighty" power trip for you. I am sure now that the Queen knows him, next time she will give him some stamps too.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> Sorry if President Obama isnt on enough of a "American the Mighty" power trip for you. I am sure now that the Queen knows him, next time she will give him some stamps too.


Are you completely incapable of responding to anything other than strawmen of your own creation? How about at least taking responsibility for your previous mistatements and mischaracterizations before moving on to the next one?

I must admit I'm flattered by the batting eyes... however, the wink wasn't for you. I think we got our signals crossed.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

ksinc said:


> Are you completely incapable of responding to anything other than strawmen of your own creation? How about at least taking responsibility for your previous mistatements and mischaracterizations before moving on to the next one?
> 
> I must admit I'm flattered by the batting eyes... however, the wink wasn't for you. I think we got our signals crossed.


Sure. Why dont you tell me where I misspoke and we can take it from there.

In case you are not familiar with , it isnt "batting eyes", it is looking up to the sky...like here we go again.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> Sure. Why dont you tell me where I misspoke and we can take it from there.
> 
> In case you are not familiar with , it isnt "batting eyes", it is looking up to the sky...like here we go again.


misstatement:
"You are trying really had to dig deeper into this, to justify your false belief that the queen was trying to "snub" President Obama in some way."

mischaracterization:
"Sorry if President Obama isnt on enough of a "American the Mighty" power trip for you."


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## JosephM (Dec 17, 2008)

ksinc and mrkleen, can't we just settle this with pistols? :icon_smile_wink:



JM


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

JosephM said:


> ksinc and mrkleen, can't we just settle this with pistols? :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> JM


If we lined up to walk 10 paces and then shoot, Ksinc would shoot on the 8th pace, claiming I mischaracterized the "10 paces" part of it.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> If we lined up to walk 10 paces and then shoot, Ksinc would shoot on the 8th pace, claiming I mischaracterized the "10 paces" part of it.


Nah! I couldn't shoot you. I'm actually very merciful. In fact, I don't feel right about picking on you anymore. And so, I apologize.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

ksinc said:


> Nah! I couldn't shoot you. I'm actually very merciful. In fact, I don't feel right about picking on you anymore. And so, I apologize.


No need. I am sure we will debate again in the future. Nothing personal.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

I know, why don't you guys exchange gifts. Maybe an iPod in exchange for a self portrait. Wait, someone's already done that. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

How about a gun then wrap it up as a present and then tell her it's something else.


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

JosephM said:


> ksinc and mrkleen, can't we just settle this with pistols? :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> JM


Guns or knives?
I dont wanna shoot you Harvey.
Knives then.

(from Butch and Sundance)


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Perhaps fresh cans of "Silly String" would prove most appropriate for this particular duel...they would provide the right tenor for the event and provide results, at least as substantive as most of the debates occurring on our Interchange!


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Perhaps fresh cans of "Silly String" would prove most appropriate for this particular duel...they would provide the right tenor for the event and provide results, at least as substantive as most of the debates occurring on our Interchange!


"Silly String" is actually a vital part of a soldier's pack - it can be used to spot otherwise invisible tripwires before entering a room.


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