# Which Online MTM Shirt Company to use?



## Philly_Chilly (May 21, 2013)

Hi all,

This is my first post, and I am definitely a noob, so apologies in advance.

I work at bank, so I wear suits everyday. I recently lost like 50ibs, so I am working on building a new wardrobe. Great for my health, bad for my wallet!! In the past I pretty much just got everything at BB. But, over the last few purchase I have been bored with selection, and it feels to be quality has gone down.

I am looking at the whole MTM shirt world, and pretty much finding it difficult to choose between the seemingly endless options of stores. These are the two I think seem like good choices: Jhilburn & Deo Veritas. Are they any good, or any other you might go with instead? I am looking for BB or better quality.

I am also actually saving to get some new suits too. I just got one from SuitSupply OTR, and really like it. I wanted to at least have one outfit that fits well for some upcoming conferences and seminars. I am looking to go MTM with these too. I'm debating SuitSupply MTM, ProperSuit and Indochino (for cheap everyday grind). I like a slim, euro style cut but not overly tight. Also, OTR suits fit well usually; it is just that I like the idea of tweaking my suit. I want to be the person who blends in, but is noticeable in a crowd. Not the guy blending in and hiding in the crowd.

I hope that's enough. Thanks in advance!!


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## Belfaborac (Aug 20, 2011)

I have no experience with the companies you list, but I have been using Bivolino for many years and have always been very pleased with their shirts.


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## Robert Patrick (Apr 14, 2004)

Bookmarking this as I need to add a few shirts and have discovered that my old source is no longer doing MTM - and I cannot afford the full bespoke treatment. Thanks for starting.


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## toddorbertBU (Apr 28, 2013)

I would suggest finding a local tailor that does some MTM. I like having a professional doing the measuring as well as having access to fabric swatches and actual shirts to compare.


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## Philly_Chilly (May 21, 2013)

toddorbertBU said:


> I would suggest finding a local tailor that does some MTM. I like having a professional doing the measuring as well as having access to fabric swatches and actual shirts to compare.


Jhilburn has you meet with a stylist to discuss the shirts and take your measurements for the first order. From what I have read, they also hand deliver the first shirt and make adjustments if needed to get everything right for the future.


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## Philly_Chilly (May 21, 2013)

Bivolino seems like an interesting shop. I don't think they cater to us in the states though. I might try them out in the future using wife's family to ship, as they live in the UK.


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## MDP (Jan 14, 2012)

I've had a good experiences with Ratio Clothing.

Shirts are made in the US (actually the same place BB's American made shirts are produced). Customer service is great and they offer a lot of customization options. They will also fix any fit issues on your first shirt for free.

Their "Ratio Slim" fit is similar to BB's Extra Slim and their Classic fit is similar to BB's Slim. You can get exact measurements from customer service, but I'd guess the Ration Slim is what you're after. I'm 5'9", 140lbs, built like runner and the Ration Slim fits great for me: clean lines, without much excess fabric or being too tight.

Only downside is that they don't have a ton of options, but if you're rebuilding a wardrobe they should have enough to get you started.

For reverence, here's a pic of me wearing their standard ratio slim in my exact measured chest size (37). It's wrinkled from wearing it all day (and playing guitar for part of it) but hopefully it helps:



Edit: sorry for awkward way I'm standing in the photo...not exactly sure what I'm doing...


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

I have had great success with MyTailor. I recommend them whole-heartedly. In fact, I just ordered another.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

Hear nothing but good things about Deo Veritas, but I've never tried them. I stick with Proper Cloth, and until they do me wrong, I'm not going to change. I've tried cheaper options before and you get what you pay for. It's the correct ratio of cost/quality for my current tastes. If my tastes become more, "refined", then I'll probably go Deo or higher.


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## Belfaborac (Aug 20, 2011)

Philly_Chilly said:


> Bivolino seems like an interesting shop. I don't think they cater to us in the states though. I might try them out in the future using wife's family to ship, as they live in the UK.


You know, it never even occurred to me to check if they ship to the US. Sorry about that.


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## Philly_Chilly (May 21, 2013)

Belfaborac, no worries. I appreciate the recommendation. It gave me another reason to check them out, and consider them in the future. I like all the customization options they have. And, now I know they have some credibility


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## blitzt (Feb 28, 2012)

I have used j.hilburn and think they have a great business model. As noted above, they will send a "style consultant" to meet with you to get the measurements for your first shirt and make sure it is right before you order others. The quality is good and they have an excellent selection of cloth. A quick search of their website indicates they have a style consultant in Mukwonago which doesn't look too far from you; so, you might give that some consideration. I have two very slight criticisms. First, they tend to push a more fitted shirt than I customarily like; so, be prepared to be firm with them and insist on getting the fit you like. Of course, if you like fitted, then no worries. Second, the style consultants, at least in my experience, just do this on the side and obviously work on commission; so, they tend to pester you once you buy from them. Be polite, but firm with them that you will call them when you need more shirts. Again, I don't want those two comments to be taken too negatively. I think the shirts are very nice and wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again.


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## jebarne (Jul 26, 2012)

I 2nd toddorbert's advice. Start with a local TAILOR who knows how a shirt should fit. After you have a shirt that is perfect, you can use that to order from online stores, but until then, you will be hit or miss. 

When I first found this forum, I was going down Andy's list of reviews. I first ordered 2 shirts from iTailor (nice fabric, nice construction, great price) I spend about $50 per shirt on alteration as iTailor probably has the internet's worst fit policy, plus because they won't support removable collar stays, I would never order a dress shirt from them. I recently ordered a different shirt. Again, great fabric, seems well made, but on the same shoulder measurement, it was 3/4" wider in the shoulders than the previous 2. However, As I have gotten better at fit, the it fit well elsewhere. 

I also did the Natty Shirt special that showed up in March. Terrific service, Amazing price, good construction, but very cheap fabrics. Plus, one shirt I ordered for my Son shrunk almost an inch in the chest in 2 launderings. 

I've tried Luxire for a pair of chino's, and while they are great pants, they basically ignored the separate measurement sheets and email I sent in. They require you to submit when you order, but I put a big note saying measurements would be attached separately. They were great to work with, they changed the fabric mid-stream, but some how, some of the key measurements I provided didn't make it, so I'm left with baggy and long pants. That said, if you have something that already fits very well and you can give its proper dimensions to them up front, then you'll get a good result, and they have very nice shirt fabrics. There has been some chatter about shrinkage on shirts, but someone else will need to chime in on that. 

Since then, I've given up on the less expensive options and done a JHilburn in a Monti fabric. It is a great shirt, very well tailored to the fit I like (actual body plus 5"). The sleeves came back about an inch shorter than they should have been. 

Finally, I went to a TAILOR and ordered 3 shirts. He is doing this and that, shortening the collar, lowering the buttoning stance and a number of other things. I don't have them back yet, but just the measuring experience was a confidence boost. Once I have these, I will order from anyone I like. He explained fit issues I didn't know I had. He is the most expensive option. If I buy 3 at a time, $160 each in his entry level fabrics, which are still very nice. But, if you want the good stuff, they are between $250 and $300.

I've been wanting to try moderntailor. Jovan has recommended Ratio and I respect his opinion. I haven't used mytailor, but it gets the most consistently positive recommendations on this forum, though many come from socal where they can get measured in-person. If you live near a brooks brothers with an in-house m2m, they usually have a very experienced "shirt guy" who will try different collar sizes, shirt bodies etc and you'll get a good fit from that. 

If I get a business trip to NYC, I want to have a couple made by forum member "Shirtmaven". In fact, if I was in the northeast, that's where I would start. I don't care what they cost (lie alert:I always care, but some things are worth paying for), it is the experience and the advice on fit, collar size, shape, face shape etc that is the hard skill to find.

my $02.

Finding the right fit is the hardest part. Once you've done that, you can pick from a number of good companies.


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## Natty Shirts (Feb 5, 2013)

We are very pleased to announce our new range of Italian custom shirt ready for your next order. We now have a wide range of button choices, from metal to coconut! Your shirt from Natty is an absolute custom, one-of-a-kind, made to fit your body, at your specifications. 
Come see our new selection of fabrics and buttons and place your order starting from only $22.99 per shirt.

We've put a lot of you in Natty custom shirts. We'd love to see you in them!


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

I, too, second the 'get shirts at a local tailor, then to MTM', as this is the route I took. I'm lucky enough to have a local shirtmaker who does bespoke (YES, true bespoke) shirts for $96/each (Raymond's Custom Shirts, Jenkintown, PA). 

ModernTailor has served me VERY well with over a dozen shirts. I just did my first Proper Cloth shirt, translating the measurements from ModernTailor, and PC uses an (in my experience) unusual method to measure sleeve length, taking it from the base of the neck instead of the shoulder seam (which is already defined by a yoke measurement), thus leading them to craft me a shirt made for a T-Rex. PC is much quicker than ModernTailor, and has the benefit of US based customer service, however they're twice the price of ModernTailor. If you learn how to work ModernTailor, it still represents the best value I've found.


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

toddorbertBU said:


> I would suggest finding a local tailor that does some MTM. I like having a professional doing the measuring as well as having access to fabric swatches and actual shirts to compare.


As a noob, it makes a lot of sense to actually do your first MTM shirts in a retail setting. They can help guide you through the process and make sure the fit is right. Also, it's nice to actually feel the fabric to get an idea of the "hand". I've been using Richard Bennett in Milwaukee since the early 80's. While they do have a 4 shirt minimum, they have a try 2 promotion a couple of time each year. I do on occasion use mytailor.com but only because I have a shirt I know fits well to use as a guide.


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## brokosk (Apr 23, 2013)

I've had good luck with moderntailor and nattyshirts. Prices are right and the fabric quality is good. You can get what natty advertises to be 150s fabric for under $40. 

I'd highly recommend measuring a shirt that fits you well. Don't go crazy with changing the measurements to try and find a better fit, the end result might not be what you expected. Also, I've heard nothing but trouble with those that have decided to measure their bodies rather than a well fitting shirt.

Edit: Note that customer service with moderntailor and nattyshirts are not based out of the US from my experience. There does seem to be a slight communication barrier...


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

Put This On had a whole series on this topic, if you want some additional reviews.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Black Lapel is what I'd recommend for suits. Indochino feels cheap and nasty and I've seen far more disasters with them even when the wearer has measured accurately.

Ratio Slim Fit is VERY slim. Try their Classic Fit first.


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## Icosahedron (Feb 8, 2013)

MDP said:


> I've had a good experiences with Ratio Clothing.
> 
> ...
> 
> For reverence, here's a pic of me wearing their standard ratio slim in my exact measured chest size...


I've spent several minutes now reverencing your image. Will that be enough?:wink2:


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Two weeks seems about enough, yes.


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## Watchman (Jun 11, 2013)

*Tailor in your area...*



Philly_Chilly said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is my first post, and I am definitely a noob, so apologies in advance.
> 
> ...


Hey Bro,

I couldn't help but notice your post and that you live in Lake Geneva WI. I live not too far away and know of a guy down in Rockford IL who does MTM shirts that are made in the USA. The place is called Sturtevants Menswear and the man you would need to talk to is Jack.

He is old school and real cool. Go in and tell him what you want and he will make it happen. The shirts are definitely high end at $100 a pop, but you get what you pay for and he may cut you a deal it you order several.

For less $$$ Natty shirts is a real good option and have great customer service as well. Hope that's a help.

Here's the info:
Sturtevants Menswear
1680 N Alpine Rd Rockford, IL 61107

(815) 397-2424
Ask for Jack


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## Randy Y (Apr 19, 2012)

blitzt said:


> I have used j.hilburn and think they have a great business model. As noted above, they will send a "style consultant" to meet with you to get the measurements for your first shirt and make sure it is right before you order others. The quality is good and they have an excellent selection of cloth. A quick search of their website indicates they have a style consultant in Mukwonago which doesn't look too far from you; so, you might give that some consideration. I have two very slight criticisms. First, they tend to push a more fitted shirt than I customarily like; so, be prepared to be firm with them and insist on getting the fit you like. Of course, if you like fitted, then no worries. Second, the style consultants, at least in my experience, just do this on the side and obviously work on commission; so, they tend to pester you once you buy from them. Be polite, but firm with them that you will call them when you need more shirts. Again, I don't want those two comments to be taken too negatively. I think the shirts are very nice and wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again.


I talked to a J Hilburn guy once, decided I didn't really want anything. He called me for months....


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## enofile (Jun 19, 2012)

If you send a well fitting shirt as a model to Modern Tailor, they do a decent job matching the model. Using measurements often causes manufacturing issues beyond their capacity. Also, Modern Tailor's cheaper fabrics are also cheap looking. I would splurge on their higher end fabric choices. 

When in NYC, I have had wonderful success at CEGO on Fifth Avenue and 28th Street. He provided wonderful advice and my shirts look great on me. CEGO has a wide array of fabrics to choose from.

I lived in Milwaukee for forty years and tried every tailor and custom shirt maker. They are all bad and have no concept of fashion or fit. I think they feel every man should look like Vince Lombardi or Tommy Thompson. 

Good luck. Unfortunately, custom clothing is often a practice of trial and error.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Watchman: Please don't address others as "bro" here. 

Randy Y: You did kindly inform him that you had no interest, right? If you left with a vague, "I'll think about it," then of course he'd call you to follow up. 

enofile: If I had access to CEGO I'd use them for sure.

"Using measurements often causes manufacturing issues beyond their capacity." Um, that doesn't say very good things about them...


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## jebarne (Jul 26, 2012)

Mine is a woman. based on comments here, I told her up front, that if she ever called me on the phone, I'd go somewhere else. I told her to email me the monthly shirt fabric specials. So far so good. If I email her, she gets back within a day. 

I also contacted an Astor and Black guy. Got back to me a week later, was going to follow up a week later, but never has. Haven't tried Tom James as I am waiting on my suit and my 3 customs. Assuming I'm happy with the stuff I get, I'll continue to get my nice stuff for important work there, but will use the shirts as templates for my everyday and casual shirts.

My bigger problem with JHilburn is they don't have the customization ability of many of the other MTM companies. 

I've just gotten to the point that I'm going to work with a person and not exclusively online. (I will on basics, but not the good stuff).


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Proper Cloth is great and the owner Seph, is a nice guy who provides great customer service.

very pleased with them.


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