# OCBD collar roll on a budget



## fallschurch (Apr 7, 2015)

I have a Mercer university stripe, a Brooks 133Q, and three vintage Nautica must-iron's with 3-3.5 inch button down collars for special occasions. But that's not enough for daily wear and I don't have the money to stock up on ten Mercer's / BB / Ratio / O'Connells / J Presses / Proper Cloth / Gitman / Kamakura / Luxire etc.

What I've done is scour the Internet for the least costly options for a 3 inch BD with collar roll (this excludes many good options because of shorter collars, like Lands End, LL Bean, and J Crew).

I think I found it and its not what I expected: JC Penney Stafford Oxford Shirts in white and Oxford blue:

https://www.jcpenney.com/stafford-travel-wrinkle-free-oxford-dress-shirt

These have 3 inch collars and can be had for 15 dollars on sale. The secret is to move the button up by 1/4 (or 1/8 inch). They roll. They're poly blend of course but I'm not stressing out about stains like I am with my $165 Mercer shirt (alterations). Good way to diversify my wardrobe and have daily wear with a semblance of the insouciant New England traditional look like I'm in the 1980's.

If you must have all cotton, the best budget one is Spier Mackay. Their oxfords are brushed unfortunately but are all cotton must iron, I've read they have a 3.5 inch roll (is that correct)? and are at 54 CAD. With the 25% exchange rate difference and 20% discount this week, you are looking at $32/shirt, even less if you buy bulk. Probably the best trad ocbd deal I know of.

Input appreciated especially if you know of other budget options. I'm not saying these are Mercers but a good option to expand my wardrobe. My Stafford OCBD's have more than 50 washes and are going strong. That's less than 30 cents per wear, not bad for someone with old money values but not old money wealth


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## Mr.Inappropriate (Nov 21, 2016)

I've always shied away from Stafford because of the poly. How do they iron? At 40% poly a hot iron can almost melt it.


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## fallschurch (Apr 7, 2015)

Mr.Inappropriate said:


> I've always shied away from Stafford because of the poly. How do they iron? At 40% poly a hot iron can almost melt it.


After 50 washes they still don't need ironing when I take it out the dryer right away, a few times when I forgot and it crumpled, light ironing on warm setting did the trick. The stafford Oxford blue really is on the spot when it comes to color (unlike their blue stripe which is just off). Their white is actually too pale to be worn without an undershirt.

They need to be worn crisp and clean, as they're not recreating the rumpled look of a cotton ocbd at 40% poly of course by any stretch of the imagination.


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## HerrDavid (Aug 23, 2012)

Bean's Oxfords roll very nicely. If you don't mind non-iron, that would be my recommendation.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

fallschurch said:


> After 50 washes they still don't need ironing when I take it out the dryer right away, a few times when I forgot and it crumpled, light ironing on warm setting did the trick. The stafford Oxford blue really is on the spot when it comes to color (unlike their blue stripe which is just off). Their white is actually too pale to be worn without an undershirt.
> 
> They need to be worn crisp and clean, as they're not recreating the rumpled look of a cotton ocbd at 40% poly of course by any stretch of the imagination.


This is consistent with my experience wearing Staffords frequently prior to retirement. They really do need only light or no ironing to maintain the crisp, clean appearance I prefer.


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## CSG (Nov 22, 2011)

I like the JCP shirts except for the fact that they are itchy on my neck. But for a cheap version of a good look and collar roll, they fit the bill if you're on a budget. LLB's shirts are better but at twice the cost (and all cotton).


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## fallschurch (Apr 7, 2015)

Looks like I neglected to consider LL Bean. Does anyone know their collar length? I've thought they're under 3 inches and don't roll but several of you say they do roll. If they do, I'd rather have their all cotton than JC Penney, even if it's non-iron.


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## HerrDavid (Aug 23, 2012)

fallschurch said:


> Looks like I neglected to consider LL Bean. Does anyone know their collar length? I've thought they're under 3 inches and don't roll but several of you say they do roll. If they do, I'd rather have their all cotton than JC Penney, even if it's non-iron.


Actually, they're a little_ over_ 3 inches. See CornoUltimo's pictures here for proof.


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## fallschurch (Apr 7, 2015)

Thank you, this is very helpful


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

The LL Bean OCBD that I am wearing right now is two and a half inches, but rolls very well. I highly recommend them as they are all cotton, have the softest cloth of any of the major brands, and look fine right out the washer without needing ironing. I like the colors better also, the Brooks Brothers is too much of a gray-blue for me. They are a heavier cloth and have the perma press treatment, thus are not acceptable to me for summertime wear.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

fallschurch said:


> Looks like I neglected to consider LL Bean. Does anyone know their collar length? I've thought they're under 3 inches and don't roll but several of you say they do roll. If they do, I'd rather have their all cotton than JC Penney, even if it's non-iron.


Here's the roll on my non-iron L.L. Bean tattersall:


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## fallschurch (Apr 7, 2015)

Hey, I read that the Lands End Traditional fit Hyde park oxfords recently increased collar lengths to 3-3.25 inches??! Is this true can anyone verify??! That would be fantastic and exactly what I'm looking for!


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

fallschurch said:


> Hey, I read that the Lands End Traditional fit Hyde park oxfords recently increased collar lengths to 3-3.25 inches??! Is this true can anyone verify??! That would be fantastic and exactly what I'm looking for!


I heard that last year and turned out not be true. At that time they were about 3".

I did a post about it here: https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2016/06/lands-end-hyde-park-update/

I would love to hear from anyone if there have been collar length changes since I published my post.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm a bit late, as usual, but here's another vote for LLBean. I have 15 of them, and they have a big,, full collar roll.


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## CSG (Nov 22, 2011)

I only have one LLB ocbd in the non-iron variety. It's a green uni stripe shirt I picked up for a song during a sale last year and it has an excellent roll with a tie but, like all non-iron shirts, even if all cotton, it doesn't look *right*.


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## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

I like the LL Bean OK in the cooler months but the non-iron aspect IMO seems to make them hardly breathe and in the hotter months they feel really heavy and a little stiff. On a positive note, they stay crisp looking all day.


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

+1 for Spier & Mackay.

I gave them a small review last year.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?232843-Spier-amp-Mackay-OCBD

They have a 3.5 inch collar length and a nice roll, apparently based off of Kamakura. The collar band is also a little higher than most shirts I've worn. I should mention that S&M's main demographic is the 'slim fit' crowd. The next baggier fit they have is their 'contemporary fit'.

Only cold-wash and hang-dry the shirts though. They also have MoP buttons.


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## Titus_A (Jun 23, 2010)

fallschurch said:


> Hey, I read that the Lands End Traditional fit Hyde park oxfords recently increased collar lengths to 3-3.25 inches??! Is this true can anyone verify??! That would be fantastic and exactly what I'm looking for!


The length of LE Hyde Park collars has _decreased_, not increased. I had a handful from several years back that wore out, so I had them replaced Christmas 2015. The new shirts are almost unwearable; they have collars off a child's shirt.


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

Some of the first OCBD's I bought to wear in the 70's after college were Stafford and they held up well and IIRC I bought them at a Pennys outlet in Charlotte. Seems I bought yellow, blue and white and alternated them for a number of years as I was trying to keep my head above water financially.
The roll was good and they went right from the dryer to hangers and looked presentable.
I had forgotten about them till this post.
Thanks.


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## CSG (Nov 22, 2011)

Titus_A said:


> The new shirts are almost unwearable; they have collars off a child's shirt.


That's a rather silly comment. They have 3" collars which are quite a pit longer than most button down collars these days. That said, I find the collars unsuitable for my ties so the few Hyde Park shirts I own are worn with open collars. Very nice shirts on sale (which is practically weekly these days).


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## clark_kent (Aug 26, 2015)

OP, after reading your post, I went out and purchased two shirts from JCP. (1) I'm on a very tight budget (2) the sleeve length on all my BB shirts were too short and wouldn't even show under sport coats. So I got a pink ocbd and a white patterned ocbd (non-iron).

Simply put - I will be buying more! Budget or no budget, these shirts are really good. Of course I'll still purchase Made in USA and the more big name brands but you really can't go wrong with JCP Stafford! 

Thanks for the recommendation, OP. I can't wait to break the shirts in after some more use and washes. I'm pushing to purchase about two per month (on sale) until I have enough for a basic wardrobe. I was really in need of shirts and just can't keep waiting for discounts and thrifts on the exchange/ebay/style forum, etc.

If you're a college student or a young professional and you need something quickly, please don't overlook this brand because of the name or the not made in USA factor. You could quickly get yourself a week's worth of shirts until you get settled financially and then graduate on to the more fancier stuff.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

clark_kent said:


> OP, after reading your post, I went out and purchased two shirts from JCP. (1) I'm on a very tight budget (2) the sleeve length on all my BB shirts were too short and wouldn't even show under sport coats. So I got a pink ocbd and a white patterned ocbd (non-iron).
> 
> Simply put - I will be buying more! Budget or no budget, these shirts are really good. Of course I'll still purchase Made in USA and the more big name brands but you really can't go wrong with JCP Stafford!
> 
> ...


I can confirm the quality of current Stafford shirts that is expressed in this sensible post. Inspired by this thread, I stopped by the local JCP and found one my size in my favorite gray, which I prefer to the more common blue. It appears to be exactly the same (quite acceptable) as one I bought five or ten years ago.


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## Tom3 (Jan 8, 2017)

CSG said:


> That's a rather silly comment. They have 3" collars which are quite a pit longer than most button down collars these days. That said, I find the collars unsuitable for my ties so the few Hyde Park shirts I own are worn with open collars. Very nice shirts on sale (which is practically weekly these days).


I still have a few LE Hyde Parks from the '80s and thought to buy a Slim Fit one last month. The fit is wonderful, but, alas, the collar is LESS than 3" with little roll. I wear it with a bow tie and find it very comfortable (and acceptable).

Not much of a first post, but I did want to share my measurement of the collar.

Tom


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

delicious_scent said:


> +1 for Spier & Mackay.
> 
> I gave them a small review last year.
> 
> ...


Spier and MacKay are sort of local for me, the next time I'm by either their Toronto or Mississauga locations, I'm going to buy one of their contemporary shirts to try out. Sadly with current currency exchange, Mercer shirts just don't make sense for me.


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## Tom3 (Jan 8, 2017)

Tom3 said:


> I still have a few LE Hyde Parks from the '80s and thought to buy a Slim Fit one last month. The fit is wonderful, but, alas, the collar is LESS than 3" with little roll. I wear it with a bow tie and find it very comfortable (and acceptable).
> 
> Not much of a first post, but I did want to share my measurement of the collar.
> 
> Tom


I promise, I am not trying to revive a dead thread, but I wanted to share that the two latest LE Hyde Park OCBD I bought (last week) have collar points only 2 3/4 " long. I have loved these shirts for a long time, but they may have moved into the bow-tie-only category for me.


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## CSG (Nov 22, 2011)

Traditional or Tailored fit? My Traditional fits have 3" collars; still too short for my ties, however.


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## Tom3 (Jan 8, 2017)

CSG said:


> Traditional or Tailored fit? My Traditional fits have 3" collars; still too short for my ties, however.


Tailored fit (2 3/4"). The HP from December was Slim fit(almost but not quite 3"). The new
shirts did come packaged with little plastic bubbles under the collar to approximate a roll. I have not bought a Traditional fit in a long time.

Tom


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## CSG (Nov 22, 2011)

Seems like slim/tailored fits get smaller collars. And, one day, you will be wearing traditional/classic fit clothing. You'll see.


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

As I mentioned in another thread, the unfortunate thing is that LE has used different vendors over the years, so no doubt some batches of Hyde Parks have had smaller collars than others. Again, I wore a traditional-fit Hyde Park last week with a Sam Hober grenadine tie and the collar fit was fine, and not a speck of tie was exposed.  was quite nice, too.

While I prefer the length/width of the collars of my Brooks Brothers oxfords, the Hyde Park is fine.


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## katch (Jun 11, 2012)

Spier and Mackey was mentioned earlier in the thread. Does anyone have any other experience with their brushed oxford button down?


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## 215339 (Nov 20, 2012)

katch said:


> Spier and Mackey was mentioned earlier in the thread. Does anyone have any other experience with their brushed oxford button down?


I think Spex does, PM him.


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## Scalissi (Jan 10, 2017)

fallschurch said:


> I have a Mercer university stripe, a Brooks 133Q, and three vintage Nautica must-iron's with 3-3.5 inch button down collars for special occasions. But that's not enough for daily wear and I don't have the money to stock up on ten Mercer's / BB / Ratio / O'Connells / J Presses / Proper Cloth / Gitman / Kamakura / Luxire etc.
> 
> What I've done is scour the Internet for the least costly options for a 3 inch BD with collar roll (this excludes many good options because of shorter collars, like Lands End, LL Bean, and J Crew).
> 
> ...


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## Hebrew Barrister (Oct 1, 2017)

katch said:


> Spier and Mackey was mentioned earlier in the thread. Does anyone have any other experience with their brushed oxford button down?


Lots of collar roll. However, I point out that Spier and Mackay is very slim fitting. Provided you're on the slimmer side, they're great, and I love my stuff from them. However, when I was a beefier fellow than I am now, I couldn't even get into one of their shirts in my neck size.

They really need to address that, as they miss out on a lot of folk who would appreciate their clothing items.

For example, larger me wore a size 17-34 tailored fit in LE Hyde Park comfortably, but a 17-34 contemporary fit spier and Mackay was laughably tight on me. Like, couldn't even close the buttons tight. I wore a size 44 suit at this time. I currently wear a size 40 suit, and a 17-34 contemporary fit spier and Mackay shirt fits me like a "classic cut" should.


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## WillBarrett (Feb 18, 2012)

I’ve got two Spier and McKay ocbds on eBay....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## milestones (Dec 28, 2018)

Looks like Brooks' "Original Polo" shirts are on sale again at $105: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Orig...assic-Fit-Dress-Shirt/ME02348,default,pd.html


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## katch (Jun 11, 2012)

milestones said:


> Looks like Brooks' "Original Polo" shirts are on sale again at $105: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Original-Polo®-Button-Down-Oxford-Madison-Classic-Fit-Dress-Shirt/ME02348,default,pd.html


Plus you can purchase gift cards for 19% off at giftcardgranny.com


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