# Trad Movies/Books



## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Random thought for a totally unscientific, mindless thread this morning....

What are the "Tradliest" movies and books of all time? Serious or funny...it doesn't matter. I'll throw out a few. It will be interesting to see the results....

_Catcher in the Rye, Franny and Zooey_ (Salinger)
_A Separate Peace_ (Knowles)
_Ordinary People_...the movie and the book
_Dead Poets Society_
_Scent of a Woman_


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Mrs. Minivar
The Bishop's Wife
Philadelphia Story

Though these may not compare to Harris' Metropolitan.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Quiz Show


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## TradTeacher (Aug 25, 2006)

I've been thinking about this thread for a long, long time. Mine primarily consist of films since that's where I draw much inspiration from.

Some of my favorites include:
_Sweet Bird of Youth_
_The Young Philadelphians_
_Dear Bridgette_
_Igby Goes Down_
_Diner_
_Anatomy of a Murder_
_The Philadelphia Story_
_Ordinary People_
_On Golden Pond_
_Chariots of Fire_
_Rushmore_
_The Odd Couple_
_The World According to Garp_
_Rosemary's Baby_
_Charade_
_Animal House_

There are plenty more, but I could only think of these right now...

TT:teacha:


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## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

The Stories of John Cheever
Appointment in Samarra, John O'Hara
Nine Stories, J.D. Salinger
The Beautiful and Damned, F. Scott Fitzgerald
John P. Marquand (take your pick)


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## vintage68 (Oct 19, 2006)

Great thread!

Any of the Blackford Oakes novels by William F. Buckley come to mind.

Old School by Tobias Wolff

As for film, The Good Shepherd with De Niro and Matt Damon


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Dead Poet's Society?


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

You might want to search the archives a bit. There are several old threads like this. This is probably the best one.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=48316&highlight=Metropolitan


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## vintage68 (Oct 19, 2006)

Tom Buchanan said:


> You might want to search the archives a bit. There are several old threads like this. This is probably the best one.
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=48316&highlight=Metropolitan


If that is the best thread, then there's room for a new one. More please!


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## yossarian (Apr 17, 2007)

Anything by Whit Stillman?


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

mpcsb said:


> The Bishop's Wife


One of my favorites...Christmas or otherwise

Trading Places
Makin' the Grade (raunchy "B" comedy but it has its moments:icon_smile_big
Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House


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## jjohnson12 (Sep 6, 2007)

"Holiday" with Katharine Hepburn and Cary Grant
"Room with a View"


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

I always Chevy Chase in the first Vacation and Christmas Vacation was sharply dressed.

Same goes for a few scenes in Caddyshack


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## oldschoolprep (Jun 21, 2007)

*Great Trad Works*

Many great works have been cited already. But I'll add David Riesman's The Lonely Crowd as the key work of Trad non-fiction along with:

The Significance of the Frontier in American History by Frederick Jackson TaylorAnything by Ralph Waldo Emerson
Jefferson (six volumes) by Dumas Malone
The Road to Serfdom by Frederick Hayek
History of Civilization by Will & Ariel Durant
Marlborough by Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill by Martin Gilbert
the History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon
FDR trilogy by Kenneth S. Davis
God and Man at Yale by WFB
The Protestant Work Ethic and Spirit of American Capitalisim by Max Weber (best English translation is by Talcott Parsons)
Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt
Anything by Theodore Roosevelt

Non-fiction 
Anyhting by Nathaniel Hawthorne, Owen Wister, Ernest Hemingway, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Theodore Drieser, Louis Bromfield, WFB, Herman Melville, and Louis Auchincloss

Deliverance by Iames Dickey


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## vintage68 (Oct 19, 2006)

Just remembered this one:

In Defense of Elitism by William A. Henry III. Excellent.


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## Congresspark (Jun 13, 2007)

Peter Taylor: _A Summons to Memphis_

Robert Lowell: _Collected Poems _


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

_Chariots of Fire_ has to be up there for movies. Also _Remains of the Day_, both book and movie.

As for books, anything written by P.G. Wodehouse.


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## jjohnson12 (Sep 6, 2007)

Books:
The Compleat Angler - Izaak Walton
Complete Manual for Young Sportsmen - Frank Forester
Lord Chesterfield's Letters
Anything by William Faulkner or Shelby Foote


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Anything by Robert Frost 
Anything by Ernest Hemingway


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## browning806 (Sep 4, 2007)

Definitely _Catcher in the Rye, _all he does is talk about that houndstooth jacket.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

The costume designer for Quiz Show I think achieved a kind of Trad perfection. I don't think I've ever seen BD collars role so perfectly. Rob Morrow's sack suits and Ralph Fiennes tweeds also bear watching again and again.

How to Succeed in Business without Really Trying is a sea of grey flannel suits. Hard to watch though because: A) Its a musical; B) Its a bad musical with lame songs; C) The hero wears his 3 button jacket with all 3 buttons buttoned. Maybe there is some jacket style for which you should do that, but it doesn't look good.

OTOH, Jazz on a Summer's Day is worth watching repeatedly. A documentary shot at a mid-50's Newport Jazz Festival features lots of real American styles from the period on musicians and audience, great jazz (Pops, Monk, Mulligan, and best of the lot, Anita O'Day!) and even shots of some yachts practicing for the upcoming America's Cup.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Also, I would be remiss not to mention, bookwise, _The Quiet American. _


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## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

oldschoolprep said:


> Many great works have been cited already. But I'll add David Riesman's The Lonely Crowd as the key work of Trad non-fiction along with:
> 
> The Significance of the Frontier in American History by Frederick Jackson TaylorAnything by Ralph Waldo Emerson
> Jefferson (six volumes) by Dumas Malone
> ...


Road to Serfdom? A book by an Austrian economist, who was privately antidemocratic, who couldn't get a job at a reputable American university for most of his years here, thoroughly and vigorously rejected by the American liberal Establishment for thirty years after it was published, resurrected by National Review and the so-called conservative movement (they were very tradly, sure!), and then made respectable by Jewish neocons?

Economics in One Lesson? A book no one outside the American Old Right even knows exists...

Perhaps the basic error here is the idea that America's postwar "conservative" movement was trad. Trad was Dean Acheson, John McCloy, FDR, Adlai Stevenson, JFK's advisors. Trad was not Joe McCarthy, Robert Welch, Russell Kirk (ever seen his ties? they barely made it down to the third button!), Willmoore Kendall... Except for WFB, this movement was completely alien to the trad style and mentality...

Will and Ariel Durant? I've read the entire series, but in what possible sense is it trad?

... I get it now, this is just a list of your favorite books?


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## mliemon2 (Aug 8, 2007)

I may have missed it but I cant belive no one has mentioned "This side of paradise" by Fitzgerald


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## oldschoolprep (Jun 21, 2007)

Nathan Detroit said:


> Road to Serfdom? A book by an Austrian economist, who was privately antidemocratic, who couldn't get a job at a reputable American university for most of his years here, thoroughly and vigorously rejected by the American liberal Establishment for thirty years after it was published, resurrected by National Review and the so-called conservative movement (they were very tradly, sure!), and then made respectable by Jewish neocons?
> 
> Economics in One Lesson? A book no one outside the American Old Right even knows exists...
> 
> ...


It is indeed that. Just a list of books. Besides that, I am politically an independent. My WASP lineage and a strong commitment to fair play takes exception to the anti-Semetic snipe in your post. Raise your sights!


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## lackspolish (Apr 14, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> Random thought for a totally unscientific, mindless thread this morning....
> 
> What are the "Tradliest" movies and books of all time? Serious or funny...it doesn't matter. ]


Roger Duncan, A Cruising Guide to the New England Coast: Including the Hudson River, Long Island Sound, and the Coast of New Brunswick


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## AsherNM (Apr 3, 2006)

The Protestant Establishment
Reflections on the Revolution in France
Old Money by Nelson Aldrich
Decline and Fall, by Evelyn Waugh

FDR was strenuously opposed by the vast majority of the patricians here.



vintage68 said:


> Just remembered this one:
> 
> In Defense of Elitism by William A. Henry III. Excellent.


Sounds very interesting. I shall have to investigate.

I'm curious - would you say there's such a thing as 'WASP' humor? (I prefer the term 'WASP' because 'trad' doesn't have much currency among the public.) Garrison Keillor, Metropolitan and the wordplay in J. Press & J. Crew magazines comes to mind - droll, witty, at times whimsical, and very verbal, rather like British humor.

FWIW, Whit Stillman has been called the WASPy Woody Allen, but there are obviously qualitative differences between them, rather than just a change of subjects and settings. Jewish humor is also very verbal, but tends to be darker, more guilt-ridden and self-deprecating.


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

For the record, Hayek had a job at the University of Chicago from the time he moved to America and had won the Nobel Prize in economics before there was any such thing as a neo-con. OTOH, I see no connection with Trad.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Interesting thread, but I'm afraid I haven't quite latched on to what makes a book "Tradly". The movies named seem to have admirable clothing in common, but I'm not picking up on a common thread for the books. Are the works of Shelby Foote tradly because he was interviewed by Ken Burns wearing a blue OCBD? For my little ole' sake I'd be interested why you put forth your nominations.

For the record, my favorite books are the Jack Aubry Series by Patrick O'Brian (20 volumes). In my opinion some of the best fiction ever written in the English language. Not tradly, (except maybe in a Napoleonic way) but quite good.

Scott


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Navel Gent,
Excellent point - well taken. I think in part any book that is 'classic' is considered trad on this thread. Classic as in history & literature are classic subjects in general. Part of it too, I think just simply reading is considered a trad hobby. OK so maybe not trashy romance novels, Jane Austen excepted - LOL


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

mpcsb said:


> Navel Gent,
> Excellent point - well taken. I think in part any book that is 'classic' is considered trad on this thread. Classic as in history & literature are classic subjects in general. Part of it too, I think just simply reading is considered a trad hobby. OK so maybe not trashy romance novels, Jane Austen excepted - LOL


Danielle Steele? Joan Wilder?


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Duck said:


> Danielle Steele? Joan Wilder?


Ouch....and on TV it would be reruns of Faclon Crest and Dallas - LOL


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## jjohnson12 (Sep 6, 2007)

Naval Gent said:


> Interesting thread, but I'm afraid I haven't quite latched on to what makes a book "Tradly". The movies named seem to have admirable clothing in common, but I'm not picking up on a common thread for the books. Are the works of Shelby Foote tradly because he was interviewed by Ken Burns wearing a blue OCBD? For my little ole' sake I'd be interested why you put forth your nominations.
> 
> For the record, my favorite books are the Jack Aubry Series by Patrick O'Brian (20 volumes). In my opinion some of the best fiction ever written in the English language. Not tradly, (except maybe in a Napoleonic way) but quite good.
> 
> Scott


We seem to have two categories here, books that have trad characters and books that a trad might have on his night stand. Mr. Foote falls into the second category, though he certainly gets points for the OCBD.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

mpcsb said:


> Navel Gent,
> Excellent point - well taken. I think in part any book that is 'classic' is considered trad on this thread. Classic as in history & literature are classic subjects in general. Part of it too, I think just simply reading is considered a trad hobby. OK so maybe not trashy romance novels, Jane Austen excepted - LOL


Nothing my Erica Jong or Danielle Steele, for example:icon_smile_big:.


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

*Hijack: Geoffrey Palmer*



jjohnson12 said:


> .......


Friend, can I just say that every time I see your avatar, I break into a smile?

Well done.

EGF


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## Nathan Detroit (Oct 12, 2005)

oldschoolprep said:


> It is indeed that. Just a list of books. Besides that, I am politically an independent. My WASP lineage and a strong commitment to fair play takes exception to the anti-Semetic snipe in your post. Raise your sights!


My commitment to fair play takes exception to throwing around accusations of bigotry based on no evidence at all (one is anti-Semitic for pointing out that the ethnic and social groups that liked Hayek can be described as "all but the WASP establishment"?). My commitment to spelling takes exception to "Semetic." Think before you write!


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Naval Gent said:


> Interesting thread, but I'm afraid I haven't quite latched on to what makes a book "Tradly". The movies named seem to have admirable clothing in common, but I'm not picking up on a common thread for the books. Are the works of Shelby Foote tradly because he was interviewed by Ken Burns wearing a blue OCBD? For my little ole' sake I'd be interested why you put forth your nominations.
> 
> For the record, my favorite books are the Jack Aubry Series by Patrick O'Brian (20 volumes). In my opinion some of the best fiction ever written in the English language. Not tradly, (except maybe in a Napoleonic way) but quite good.
> 
> Scott


For me, I think Trad dressing is expressionistic, that there is an underlying idea or a feeling that is being conveyed or at least attempting to be conveyed. I guess people are listing those books which give them the same feeling.

Its interesting to see the ideas that underly people's styles, but also obviiously controversial because they end up being so different. After all, if your bow tie is saying Evelyn Waugh, how can my bow tie be saying Arthur Schlesinger.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

TradTeacher said:


> I've been thinking about this thread for a long, long time. Mine primarily consist of films since that's where I draw much inspiration from.
> 
> Some of my favorites include:
> _Sweet Bird of Youth_
> ...


Would add The Four Seasons from the 80s.


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## jjohnson12 (Sep 6, 2007)

egadfly said:


> Friend, can I just say that every time I see your avatar, I break into a smile?
> 
> Well done.
> 
> EGF


Thanks EGF. I can only hope to look that distinguished someday.


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## Fuller Dreck (Aug 17, 2007)

1. The Secret History by Donna Tart.
2. Tristram Shandy by Laurence Sterne - only fits b/c it has special significance with the Yale Skull and Bones, despite the fact that it's a rather odd book from the 18th century.
3. Rule of Four by Caldwell and Thomason. Not a great book, but the focus of this mystery is on Princeton eating clubs and it's written by a couple of young Ivy alums (one Princeton, one Harvard).


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

Not sure if this is a 'trad' movie, but I recommend the 1992 film _School Ties_ with Brendan Fraser, Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, and Chris O'Donnell. Loads of tweed jackets, navy blazers, and repp ties. Not a bad movie either. 

Cheers.


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## Trapper Lake (Jun 19, 2007)

yossarian said:


> Anything by Whit Stillman?


"metropolitan" is *the* "trad" movie. press and brooks references. (sympathetic) analysis of "preppy" society (and its inevitable decline)....plus a pink shetland cameo!

stillman is genius.


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## Hayek (Jun 20, 2006)

Nathan Detroit said:


> Road to Serfdom? A book by an Austrian economist, who was privately antidemocratic, who couldn't get a job at a reputable American university for most of his years here, thoroughly and vigorously rejected by the American liberal Establishment for thirty years after it was published, resurrected by National Review and the so-called conservative movement (they were very tradly, sure!), and then made respectable by Jewish neocons?
> 
> Economics in One Lesson? A book no one outside the American Old Right even knows exists...
> 
> ...


Hayek made respectable by Jewish neocons? Not sure how accurate this is. Kristol et. al. were former leftists and the bulk of their thinking concerned foreign policy.


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## yossarian (Apr 17, 2007)

I just watched Trading Places on a flight, and it was hard to tell on the small screen whether the jackets were darted, but I thought there was a fair amount of trad clothing worn by Louis, the Dukes and a few others.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Conservatism Revisited - Peter Viereck
Invisible Man- Ralph Ellison, not WASPy, but just as much apart of the American tradition as anything.


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## ROI (Aug 1, 2004)

jjohnson12 said:


> We seem to have two categories here, books that have trad characters and books that a trad might have on his night stand. Mr. Foote falls into the second category, though he certainly gets points for the OCBD.


Fuzzy: Are tradly books and movies by tradly people, about tradly people, or likely to be favored by tradly people?

As students of trad who take such questions seriously, we may be the least qualified to speculate about what the less self-consciously trad might like in books and movies.

I'm not sure, for instance, how JP Marquand dressed (though his background suggests it was likely in the ivy mode), but he wrote about an identifiably trad class of people. I have to wonder, though, whether the people he wrote about enjoyed seeing themselves satirized.


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## Trapper Lake (Jun 19, 2007)

trying to fit some (potentially outdated) stereotype isn't something a grown man should be taking too seriously:icon_smile:.......just my .02.


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## Beresford (Mar 30, 2006)

The Indiana Jones movies.

Out of Africa.


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

I'm not sure how "Risky Business" did not make this list. I watched it last night (for the first time, I might add) and it was full-on 80s prep: boat shoes, Levis 501s, OCBDs, regimental ties, the whole 9 yards. 

I should also add that in spite of its somewhat Trad wardrobe, the 2003 film version of "A Separate Peace" was actually so excruciating to watch that I had to turn it off. I suggest removing it from your Netflix queue.


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## 99%Thrift (Oct 2, 2007)

The first 1/3 of the film "A beautiful mind" = late 40's / 50s Princeton


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Off the top of my head:

The Way We Live Now by Anthony Trollope
Vanity Fair by William Thackeray
The Lawrenceville Stories by Owen Johnson
Tea and Sympathy by Robert Anderson (play, book and movie)
Coningsby by Benjamin Disraeli
The Rector of Justin by Louis Auchincloss (or anything by him)
Auntie Mame by Patrick Dennis (book; and movie with Rosalind Russell)
The Federalist by various contributors
Notes on the State of Virginia by Thomas Jefferson
The Twelve Caesars by Seutonius
Class by Paul Fussell
(OPH by Lisa Birnbach, of course, of course)
Southern Ladies and Gentlemen by Florence King (anything by Miss King, a professional misanthrope with a silver pen, is worth looking into.)
The Letters of Wallace Stevens by Wallace Stevens

_Dead Poets Society_ will always have a special place in my mind and heart. I was packed off to boarding school in the fall of 1980 and that movie just nails certain aspects of prep culture and expectations with amazing exactitude.

--A.Q.


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## Acacian (Jul 10, 2007)

Quay said:


> Off the top of my head:
> The Lawrenceville Stories by Owen Johnson
> --A.Q.


I agree 100%, and if you're lucky enough to find the film version that PBS made in 1992, you'll find that it's great as well. It hasn't been put out on DVD, but if you can find it on VHS, it's a great catch.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Acacian said:


> I agree 100%, and if you're lucky enough to find the film version that PBS made in 1992, you'll find that it's great as well. It hasn't been put out on DVD, but if you can find it on VHS, it's a great catch.


Zooks! There is a film version? I'd no idea. Thanks for the tip. I shall have to see about catching this gem then -- of course I still have and use a VHS player.

Cordially,
A.Q.


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## JRT3 (Feb 11, 2008)

_The Theory of the Leisure Clas_s - Thorsten Veblen

And how we have all forgotten the OPH?:

_The Official Preppy Handbook_ - Lisa Birnbach, ed.


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## Acacian (Jul 10, 2007)

Quay said:


> Zooks! There is a film version? I'd no idea. Thanks for the tip. I shall have to see about catching this gem then -- of course I still have and use a VHS player.
> 
> Cordially,
> A.Q.


Yep, it's a 3 hour long, 3-tape set. There are a few available on half.com.

The PBS version holds very close to the original. Hickey, Tennessee Shad, Hungry Smead...they're all there.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

_Alcoholics Anonymous_ and Plutarch's _Lives_.


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

I would simply like to second the recommendation for "the good shepherd" not only is it a good movie but its just lush with trad clothing from informal to business to formal. its a complete tour.


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

katon said:


> _Alcoholics Anonymous_ and Plutarch's _Lives_.


+1 because that made me burst out laughing. So true, so true.

Cordially,
A.Q.


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## PorterSq (Apr 17, 2008)

*Matters of Honor by Begley*

I just finished a novel called "Matters of Honor" by Begley, which I think folks here will like. It's about 3 roommates at Harvard in the early 50s and their lifelong friendship. One's Jewish and wants nothing more than to fit in with the WASPy set, one's a from an old family from the Berkshires and is dealing with alcoholic parents, and the third looks and seems old money, but his family is really new money.

There are several passages that discuss their clothing, and even a few references to buying clothing at Keezer's.

I thought it was an excellent book aside from being "trad," but whatever definition folks use as a "trad" book, I think this will qualify.

Here's a summary from amazon.com and the link to the amazon page if anyone is interested:

Sam Standish, the adopted son of an alcoholic banker, arrives at Harvard in the early 1950s in genteel poverty, but with an unexpected trust fund to finance his education. His roommates are the incongruously named Archibald P. Palmer III, an army brat who goes by Archie, and Henry White, a rough-edged, fiercely smart Jewish refugee (born Henryk Weiss in Poland). Sam, who achieves a measure of success as a literary novelist, narrates their 50 years of friendship. His opaque romantic life suggests he may be gay, but the heart of this tragedy of manners is Sam's compelling assessment of class and social cachet in America, and of the ambient anti-Semitism that nearly drives Henry crazy, as he makes and abandons a fortune. Archie drops out of the narrative after he dies in a drunken car accident months after the Kennedy assassination, but Sam and Henry reconnect many years after Henry's disappearance for one last reunion of old friends. It's a story covered by everyone from Cheever to Roth, but Begley finds new and wonderful nuances within it.

https://www.amazon.com/Matters-Hono...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208484651&sr=8-1


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## PersianMonarchs (Dec 7, 2005)

*P G Wodehouse*

My unbounded regard for P G Wodehouse prompts me to recall (and second) the Oct. 8 posting of Beresford: "Anything written by P G Wodehouse." Edwardian England -- the world of P G Wodehouse -- ought to qualify as "Trad", and Bertie Wooster, especially as played by Hugh Laurie in the WONDERFUL television series (made in England, shown here on PBS, and available on DVD at reasonable prices for an 8-volume set) definitely is a Trad dresser. But of all the Wodehouse characters, none has better, steadier, more reliable conservative taste than Jeeves. His unfailing understanding of what Bertie should pack, what Bertie should wear, and, best of all, what Bertie should throw out, is a delightful thread running through the Jeeves and Wooster novels and stories (which, for those of you who are still plowing through this emotional tribute, constitute but a fraction of Wodehouse's output).


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

"Bartleby the Scrivener"--there was something strangely trad about that dude.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Beefeater said:


> Would add The Four Seasons from the 80s.


How about that Bridget Fonda/Phoebe Cates classic, "Shag"?

And has anybody mentioned the David Keith film version of Pat Conroy's "The Lords of Discipline"?


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## gar1013 (Sep 24, 2007)

It's a bit 1980's-Trad, but I think St. Elmo's Fire deserves a mention too. 

For the southern folk, I think Cape Fear (the original) should be listed.


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## MarcDavidMiller (Mar 1, 2005)

I went to Millbrook School, so for the sake of loyalty...

Movies:

"The World According to Garp"--filmed at Millbrook just after my graduation in 1981 (many of my classmates were extras)
"Regarding Henry"-filmed at Millbrook around 1991
Anything by Whit Stillman (Millbrook alum)
Anything by Nicholas Kazan (Millbrook alum)


Books:
Anything by Wiliam F Buckley, Jr. (Millbrook alum)
Anything by Alastair Horne (Millbrook alum and WFB's roommate)


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