# Please educate me on OCBDs...



## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

I've been wearing OCBD shirts for a least 40 years. However, seems like I may be missing some things with regard to different styles and materials. I have 4-5 RLP OCBDs, Custom Fit, that I bought at the RLP Outlet. However, material and cut wise, they seem to be about the same as those sold by Macy's, etc. I would consider them very 'rough' and casual, not really for wearing with a tie under a Blazer. When I say 'rough' I mean it takes a bit to get them ironed and even then, they still have a unkept edge to them.

Then I see post in the WAYWT threads that posters are wearing very nice, dressier OCBDs with ties and Blazers. I would compare those shirts to the ones you can find at Penney's. They look like non-iron shirts and just have a dressier, sharper look to them. I also notice that the collars are larger on the dressier shirts. My RLPs collar seems too small for a tie.

What are these two different styles of OCBDs? What seller offers the ones like Penney's? 

Thanks


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## Z.J.P (Jun 29, 2010)

https://putthison.com/tagged/The-Oxford-Cloth-Button-Down-Shirt-Series

Not sure of what the other members think of this series, but I think it was very well done. Keep in mind that Derek has very different tastes than the typical member of the Trad Forum. While he does enjoy TNSIL, he is also heavily into streetwear and bespoke tailoring. Nevertheless, this is good reading.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Yes, a very thorough reference. Personally, I like Brooks Brothers as an affordable option with a good collar roll.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

Duvel said:


> Yes, a very thorough reference. Personally, I like Brooks Brothers as an affordable option with a good collar roll.


Triathlete, listen to Duvel. Most of the OCBDs that you see in the What Are You Wearing thread seem to be from Brooks Brothers. The BB oxford cloth buttondown shirts are good quality and an excellent value when you buy three at a time during a sale.

Don't worry too much about a bit of rumpling in an OCBD; these shirts are inherently casual, or at least they are the least dressy of the dress shirts, so a lack of total crispness in the fabric is normal and part of their charm.

If, however, a smooth, perfectly-ironed shirt is a priority, BB offers non-iron versions of its OCBDs. I don't like non-iron shirts because they don't breathe, but some people have no problem at all with such shirts.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Also, some of the dressier, smoother "OCBD" you see are actually pinpoint buttondowns.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Don't forget about Mercer & Sons Shirtmakers, Kamakura Shirts (but the sizing is weird and they shrink even when hung dry), and Ratio Clothing. They all offer long point, full roll button-down collars. With the latter you have to ask for it though.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Jovan said:


> Don't forget about Mercer & Sons Shirtmakers, Kamakura Shirts (but the sizing is weird and they shrink even when hung dry), and Ratio Clothing. They all offer long point, full roll button-down collars. With the latter you have to ask for it though.


This maker has been recommended elsewhere; I'm tempted to try them: https://www.spierandmackay.com/. I'd really like some not-quite-so-trad OCBDs, say in lavender, or forest green university stripes (I never see the latter on BB's website, at least).


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## Brigadier Cheape (Sep 25, 2014)

Reuben said:


> Also, some of the dressier, smoother "OCBD" you see are actually pinpoint buttondowns.


Great point, many of the button down collar varieties are not actually OCBD. You'll have no trouble dressing up a BB must iron OCBD.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

SlideGuitarist said:


> I'd really like some not-quite-so-trad OCBDs, say in lavender, or forest green university stripes (I never see the latter on BB's website, at least).


Ratio has OCBDs in less-traditional colors. No forest green uni-stripe but plenty of solids in lavender, mint green, grey, wine etc.
https://www.ratioclothing.com/t/oxford


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## Billax (Sep 26, 2011)

Triathlete,
You ask a simple question that is VERY difficult to answer. There are several elements for you to consider that will, almost certainly, cause you to try several brands in order to achieve a great collar roll. To me, collar roll is the reason to wear a button down shirt. These elements are the shape of YOUR body - not Billy's not Bobby's - but YOURS. Everyone who has given you an answer here is giving you an answer for what looks best TO THEM on THEIR BODY. If your neck length, neck pitch, shoulder bone pitch, chest projection just happens - let me say that differently - JUST HAPPENS - to be the identical to a recommender, well, you're a lucky guy. You've found an answer that can produce a great collar roll. Cutaway collars, point collars, spread collars, Pin Hall collars all have their plusses. The plus of the button down collar is the collar roll. That's it! Nothing more!

I currently buy OCBDs from Brooks Brothers, J. Press, and Gitman. I used to buy Hyde Park shirts from Lands' End before they shrunk their collar length and I bought one OCBD from Kamakura and will never buy another, despite the great cloth they use to make theirs. Finally, I have never purchased a Mercer shirt, nor a JC Penny shirt. So, take my post for what it's worth.

My recommendation is what works best for MY BODY. I happen to have the same neck size and sleeve length as my youngest Son. OCBDs that look GREAT on him, look like feces on me - and vice versa. Sadly, I believe you gotta try 'em all to get the one that looks best on you. Unless you try a number of models, accepting the recommendation of someone whose body shape is different than yours will lead you to be a very disappointed buyer.

So, with those qualifiers, what works best for my neck length, neck pitch, shoulder slope, and chest projection? J. Press. I like Brooks and buy lots of 'em on sale. But, for my GO TO shirt on MY BODY shape, it's J. Press. I make no claim that they will be best for you, but I will assert that if you try several of the shirts recommended on this thread, you'll find one or two that look great and one or two that look horrible.

I'm a soft collar guy. Others like a bit more starch or stiffness. To each his own. Here are a couple pix of my favorite brand:



















Good luck on your search!


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

Reuben said:


> Also, some of the dressier, smoother "OCBD" you see are actually pinpoint buttondowns.


This is what I wear with a tie. True OCBDs are just to heavy for the South, imo.



SlideGuitarist said:


> This maker has been recommended elsewhere; I'm tempted to try them: https://www.spierandmackay.com/. I'd really like some not-quite-so-trad OCBDs, say in lavender, or forest green university stripes (I never see the latter on BB's website, at least).


I was very pleased with the shirt I got from them and the customer service is beyond outstanding.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

vpkozel said:


> This is what I wear with a tie. True OCBDs are just to heavy for the South, imo.
> 
> I was very pleased with the shirt I got from them and the customer service is beyond outstanding.


$48 for That's hard to beat. Do these have big, manly collars like Billax's? As a 46L, the little LE collars flat-out do not look good on me.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

SlideGuitarist said:


> $48 for That's hard to beat. Do these have big, manly collars like Billax's? As a 46L, the little LE collars flat-out do not look good on me.


Wait, do they not offer a choice of sleeve lengths? That doesn't seem right . . .


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Billax, I'm curious, what did you not like about Kamakura? My issues were the shrinkage when I only hang dry, the collar is just a little TOO rolled, and the oxford fabric rather thin compared to BB, Ratio Clothing (who both use the same supplier), and Mercer & Sons. I highly recommend Mercer's though. I think you'll love it. It's a bit more refined looking than BB/Ratio's but very very durable and just as thick.


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

SlideGuitarist said:


> $48 for That's hard to beat. Do these have big, manly collars like Billax's? As a 46L, the little LE collars flat-out do not look good on me.


Here is a pic of mine. It is custom, but I went with a normal collar. It measures 3 inches to the point. And the buttons are definitely beefy. If you have any particular needs, I would reach out to Rikky via PM or email. I know that he mentioned a new program that they would be rolling out that would allow for customized sleeve lengths (and maybe collars). I got a fabric closer to pinpoint than oxford. And it is must iron.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Billax said:


> The plus of the button down collar is the collar roll. That's it! Nothing more!


Somewhat off topic from the OP, but I would like to know the recommended method for attaining a great collar roll. Not what a collar roll is or what it looks like. I already know that from the posts of Billax and OCBD. But how to attain it.

This is is something I continually struggle with, and it could be in part due to the fact that nearly all my shirts are newer and have smaller collars than were offered in the past.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

gamma68 said:


> Somewhat off topic from the OP, but I would like to know the recommended method for attaining a great collar roll. Not what a collar roll is or what it looks like. I already know that from the posts of Billax and OCBD. But how to attain it.
> 
> This is is something I continually struggle with, and it could be in part due to the fact that nearly all my shirts are newer and have smaller collars than were offered in the past.


Collar length and button placement are key. A collar either rolls well, or it doesn't. There's not much you can do about it, aside from maybe moving the buttons yourself.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Topsider said:


> Collar length and button placement are key. A collar either rolls well, or it doesn't. There's not much you can do about it, aside from maybe moving the buttons yourself.


I get that, but I still feel as if I'm doing something wrong, either when I iron my shirts or put on a tie.


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## Charles Dana (Nov 20, 2006)

gamma68 said:


> I get that, but I still feel as if I'm doing something wrong, either when I iron my shirts or put on a tie.


What brand or brands of button-down shirts are you using?


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

gamma68 said:


> I get that, but I still feel as if I'm doing something wrong, either when I iron my shirts or put on a tie.


Even with BB shirts...?


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Charles Dana said:


> What brand or brands of button-down shirts are you using?


BB, LE, LLB, Orvis come to mind. Mainly BB I guess.


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## Spex (Nov 25, 2012)

I own both Kamakura and the standard BB OCBDs. The white BB version is a pretty versatile shirt. Straight off of the hanger with no ironing and it's a bit more casual. However this past summer on a somewhat hotter night I ironed it up, threw it on with a pair of dark blue cotton/linen trousers from Brooks and met someone for a night at the symphony. I caught a glance of myself in a full length mirror and the shirt looked great. Somehow once it's ironed it manages to take on a dressier look. Perhaps it helped that I removed the breast pocket upon purchase (the horror! I know!).

I agree that some button downs in the WAYWT may not be Oxford cloth. I must compliment the amazing longer J Press collar Billax posted photos of. It simply rocks. The Spier & Mackay version just looks too short for me.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I refer you here: https://wearingtheivyleaguelooksince1958.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-holy-grail-of-ivy-league-look.html



gamma68 said:


> Somewhat off topic from the OP, but I would like to know the recommended method for attaining a great collar roll. Not what a collar roll is or what it looks like. I already know that from the posts of Billax and OCBD. But how to attain it.
> 
> This is is something I continually struggle with, and it could be in part due to the fact that nearly all my shirts are newer and have smaller collars than were offered in the past.


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## Oak City Trad (Aug 2, 2014)

I'll disagree with Billax somewhat: I think the biggest plus of the button down collar is its versatility. Standing up underneath a sweater or sportcoat sans tie, not losing track of collar stays or pins, being able to dress them up or down... While the roll is a plus, I'd hardly say it's the ONLY plus. Unless of course he was being facetious.

As for OCBDs being too heavy for the South, I respectfully disagree there also. A breathable, must-iron OCBD trumps a non-breathable, non-iron dress shirt and works on all but the hottest of days. Sure, if it's 99 degrees with 90% humidity, you're better off in madras or the like, but mine get plenty of use year-round. Granted, I'm not in Biloxi but it's not exactly the Yukon here either.

Additional points of emphasis to the OP on finding a brand (and a fit within that brand) that works for your body type and avoiding non-iron for breathability. But if you start wearing several OCBDs at a time with each collar popped, you've gone too far.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Duvel said:


> I refer you here: https://wearingtheivyleaguelooksince1958.blogspot.com/2014/09/the-holy-grail-of-ivy-league-look.html


Thanks for the link. I'll give his tips a shot. But as noted above, I think the placement of the collar buttons is also key.


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

Oak City Trad said:


> As for OCBDs being too heavy for the South, I respectfully disagree there also. A breathable, must-iron OCBD trumps a non-breathable, non-iron dress shirt and works on all but the hottest of days. Sure, if it's 99 degrees with 90% humidity, you're better off in madras or the like, but mine get plenty of use year-round. Granted, I'm not in Biloxi but it's not exactly the Yukon here either.


You are changing an awful lot of variables there.

A breathable lighter weight must iron pinpoint is going to simply be cooler than its heavier oxford cloth cousin.


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## Oak City Trad (Aug 2, 2014)

vpkozel said:


> You are changing an awful lot of variables there.
> 
> A breathable lighter weight must iron pinpoint is going to simply be cooler than its heavier oxford cloth cousin.


Good point. I had OCBDs on the brain from the OP, but that's a viable option for warmer climes. I've avoided pinpoints in recent years as they wrinkle more during the day (whereas that doesn't bother me as much with madras). Plus, when it gets incredibly hot, I'm a sleeve-roller.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

Triathlete said:


> Then I see post in the WAYWT threads that posters are wearing very nice, dressier OCBDs with ties and Blazers. I would compare those shirts to the ones you can find at Penney's. They look like non-iron shirts and just have a dressier, sharper look to them. I also notice that the collars are larger on the dressier shirts. My RLPs collar seems too small for a tie.


If the OCBD's you are seeing from Penney's (they are Stafford brand) look dressier and sharper to you in the pics, it's because they are a cotton/polyester blend. They look like non-iron shirts because they are. Looks can be deceiving. I would steer clear of these, as they rank very low on the quality scale. The only plus (aside from their "dressier" look in photos) is their very low cost...around $20, I think. The recommendations you've gotten throughout this thread are far superior.


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## Billax (Sep 26, 2011)

I believe that achieving a great collar roll is a topic that won't go away in Ivy League Look conversations. I further believe that the dialogue between Gamma 68 and Topsider is one that has been going on for more than half a century. Here's the recap:

*Gamma68:* _Somewhat off topic from the OP, but I would like to know the recommended method for attaining a great collar roll. Not what a collar roll is or what it looks like. I already know that from the posts of Billax and OCBD. But how to attain it. 

This is is something I continually struggle with, and it could be in part due to the fact that nearly all my shirts are newer and have smaller collars than were offered in the past.

_*Topsider*:Collar length and button placement are key. A collar either rolls well, or it doesn't. There's not much you can do about it, aside from maybe moving the buttons yourself.

*Gamma68:* _I get that, but I still feel as if I'm doing something wrong, either when I iron my shirts or put on a tie._
_
_*Topsider*: Even with BB shirts...?

In my opinion, Gamma68 is committed to success. Topsider generally argues that whatever is, is what is. Generally, a predestination argument. This is the Yin and Yang of a wide range of discussions and arguments, all taking the form of *a*) there must be a way to accomplish this, or *b*) all of this is pre-destined and little can be done about it. This post asserts that, with regard to collar roll arguments, POV *a* is correct.

So, what is a classic collar roll and how does one achieve it? In 1960. I was taught by my mentor, the owner of the Campus Ivy store in which I worked, part-time while in college, the definition of what he called "the Classic collar." He described it to me in a drawing I reproduce here as best I can:


 Someone on a menswear forum dealing with Ivy Style apparel asked how to achieve the classic Ivy League collar roll with an Oxford Cloth Button Down shirt. I responded by sketching out the mathematical reasons why the Liberty Bell collar roll is such a classic. I didn't originate this notion, but was led to it by the Scotsman owner of the Campus Ivy store where I was lucky enough to work when I was in college from 1959-1964. 

He said something like this: "The perfection of the Classic button-down collar with a four-in-hand tie is the result of the resolved tension between two sets of opposing curves. One opposing pair of ogee curves and another opposing pair of arcs." He had a slight burr, which can't be duplicated in print, but was great to listen to nonetheless. He drew a sketch of what he meant. Below, I have drawn from memory what he drew for me. Most important, I've come to understand how prescient and thoughtful he was. What a grand mentor!

I reproduce here what he drew for me in 1959 or 1960:












Mr. Ross didn't call it the Liberty Bell collar, simply the Classic collar.


Here are few examples of what he taught me. After fifty-four years of practice, I believe my collar roll is _almost_ as good as his!


















































So, how do you achieve a persistent Liberty Bell collar roll? It's one of those things that seems difficult at the start, but ends up being pretty easy. Here goes:

I use four digits on each hand, thumb highest on each hand: Thumb, index finger, middle finger and ring finger.
1) The thumbs are at the top, nearest the join of collar to band and slightly depressing the uppermost part of the collar. creating a slight dent
2) The Index finger is just below that and inside the collar, pushing out and up that part of the collar just below the part being exercised and controlled by the thumbs
3) The middle fingers are outside the collar, and push in the collar right below the area protruded by the index fingers.
4) The ring fingers press the buttons to one's chest, allowing the thumb, index finger, and middle finger to push, pull, push the collar into a classic collar roll. For me, I think of it as depressing, pulling, and depressing the collar, while pinning the buttons to my chest.

This exercise takes, maybe, thirty seconds to get my collar to yield to the shape I desire. If one pulls, tugs, and pushes, just so, the collar yields to one's efforts. Every few hours, I quickly remind the collar of how it's supposed to shape itself. Takes five seconds or less to do this each time.

As I said, I've been doing this for more than fifty years. The finger manipulations have become second nature to me. I suspect that guys who try this method will initially feel uncomfortable with it. Stay with the program. In a week or so, it will become second nature!

I have read people saying that the button down collar has a mind of its own - and that's a part of its casual charm! I believe that's horse pucky. Every unfused OCBD with a collar 3 1/4" or or longer, will yield to these manipulations, and every guy who sees the Classic collar will want to duplicate it. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!




_

_


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## Brigadier Cheape (Sep 25, 2014)

Jovan said:


> Billax, I'm curious, what did you not like about Kamakura? My issues were the shrinkage when I only hang dry, the collar is just a little TOO rolled, and the oxford fabric rather thin compared to BB, Ratio Clothing (who both use the same supplier), and Mercer & Sons. I highly recommend Mercer's though. I think you'll love it. It's a bit more refined looking than BB/Ratio's but very very durable and just as thick.


Jovan, do you wear a standard fit mercer or do you wear a fitted version? I've read a little about them and they sparked my interest.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

^^ Thanks, Billax. I greatly appreciate the lengths you took to describe your method of attaining the quintessential collar roll. I also read your blog entry and, of course, have long admired your photo posts.

If possible, I'd also like to see a brief video of how you roll your collar. Sometimes visual instruction is just as valuable as verbal. It reminds me of the day when I was a boy and stood side-by-side with my father at the mirror when he first showed me how to tie a four-in-hand knot. LOL

I imagine there are others who might also benefit from and appreciate video instruction.

An additional question: I'm in the habit of ironing both sides of my collar, then folding it over and ironing it again at the top crease. I wonder if my ironing hampers the ability to attain a good roll?

In any event, whether video is available or not, I'll refer to your primer the next time I put on an OCBD with tie.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Brigadier Cheape said:


> Jovan, do you wear a standard fit mercer or do you wear a fitted version? I've read a little about them and they sparked my interest.


Standard fit. Still haven't gotten around to taking them in a bit. They are definitely roomy, about as much as a Traditional Fit from Brooks Brothers.


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## Yodan731 (Jan 23, 2011)

One thing to be wary of that I have noticed, especially after losing a little weight: if your shirt neck is too large, then when you tighten your tie, you will be pushing some of the collar fabric up, which tightens the collar points up against the shirt resulting in no roll. Kind of hard to explain, but in my estimation the most important ingredient to good collar roll is a properly fitting shirt (assuming that shirt has the right proportions to roll, such as Brooks, J Press, O'Connell's, etc.).



gamma68 said:


> ^^ Thanks, Billax. I greatly appreciate the lengths you took to describe your method of attaining the quintessential collar roll. I also read your blog entry and, of course, have long admired your photo posts.
> 
> If possible, I'd also like to see a brief video of how you roll your collar. Sometimes visual instruction is just as valuable as verbal. It reminds me of the day when I was a boy and stood side-by-side with my father at the mirror when he first showed me how to tie a four-in-hand knot. LOL
> 
> ...


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Yodan731 said:


> One thing to be wary of that I have noticed, especially after losing a little weight: if your shirt neck is too large, then when you tighten your tie, you will be pushing some of the collar fabric up, which tightens the collar points up against the shirt resulting in no roll. Kind of hard to explain, but in my estimation the most important ingredient to good collar roll is a properly fitting shirt (assuming that shirt has the right proportions to roll, such as Brooks, J Press, O'Connell's, etc.).


isnt the most important thing having a shirt with a collar that is substantial enough that it will roll? A lot of newer cheaper shirts have small collars.


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## Yodan731 (Jan 23, 2011)

Yes, as I wrote above, my comment assumes that you have such a shirt already. I'm just pointing out another reason why your collar might not roll, despite owning "the right shirt".


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## efdll (Sep 11, 2008)

The flawless and exemplary Billax as well as OCBD have given master classes on collar roll. However, there is, I would claim, another school of thought, to which I adhere, probably from formative -- and wasted -- years in academia. And that is, on a proper collar that meets all rigorous trad standards, let the good roll roll as it may, usually in an asymmetric configuration. I see it in Patrick's photos. It works for me.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Billax, let me say that your postings are a delight!


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## thegovteach (Dec 2, 2012)

SlideGuitarist said:


> Billax, let me say that your postings are a delight!


Agreed!


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## UnivStripe (Mar 6, 2013)

I would like to recommend another OCBD thread https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?189169-Is-there-a-quintessential-trad-OCBD


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Billax said:


> So, how do you achieve a persistent Liberty Bell collar roll? It's one of those things that seems difficult at the start, but ends up being pretty easy. Here goes:
> 
> I use four digits on each hand, thumb highest on each hand: Thumb, index finger, middle finger and ring finger.
> 1) The thumbs are at the top, nearest the join of collar to band and slightly depressing the uppermost part of the collar. creating a slight dent
> ...


Manipulations such as this may only yield temporary results. As you move around, the collar is going to do what what it wants by virtue of its construction, length, and button placement. Some collars (yours among them) are better at holding their shape than others. As others have mentioned, shorter collars aren't going to roll well regardless of how they're manipulated.

I must say, I love reading your posts, and recently discovered your blog, as well. Great stuff!


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## Billax (Sep 26, 2011)

Topsider said:


> Manipulations such as this may only yield temporary results.


Topsider, I'm sure we can both agree to disagree!


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Billax said:


> Topsider, I'm sure we can both agree to disagree!


Well, you mentioned the need to re-adjust it throughout the day. I'm not sure we disagree about anything!


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

You all are crazy.

I love it!


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Topsider said:


> Manipulations such as this may only yield temporary results. As you move around, the collar is going to do what what it wants by virtue of its construction, length, and button placement. Some collars (yours among them) are better at holding their shape than others. As others have mentioned, shorter collars aren't going to roll well regardless of how they're manipulated.
> 
> I must say, I love reading your posts, and recently discovered your blog, as well. Great stuff!


Would you be kind enough to supply a link to Billax's blog , please?


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Honestly, I've never done any sort of collar manipulations. Nonetheless, I think most of these look pretty decent...and the last one isn't even with a tie. The shirts are all either LE or BB.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Brio1 said:


> Would you be kind enough to supply a link to Billax's blog , please?


https://wearingtheivyleaguelooksince1958.blogspot.com


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## Oldsport (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank you everybody for all of the great OCBD information. Now, about those jackets shown in some of the posts??


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Topsider said:


> https://wearingtheivyleaguelooksince1958.blogspot.com


That's a great blog. I'm glad to have learned about it.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

tocqueville said:


> You all are crazy.
> 
> I love it!


Perhaps. 

It occurs to me that what Billax and others are suggesting is that the perfect collar roll is a product of nature and nurture, rather than "predestination".

There are certainly some collars that aren't going to roll well no matter how much you manipulate them (PRL comes to mind), as they're simply too short, too stiff, or the buttons are in the wrong place. Certain makers (e.g., BB, Gitman, and Mercer) have decent collar rolls by design ("nature"), but can be made even better by using the "Billax Method" ("nurture").


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Topsider said:


> Perhaps.
> 
> It occurs to me that what Billax and others are suggesting is that the perfect collar roll is a product of nature and nurture, rather than "predestination".


LOL! Now, the debate has taken an interesting turn! Mixing sociology/psychology and religion! Sometimes the discussions on here fascinate me! It is funny to think if someone took some of the statements out of context no one would believe we speaking about clothes!


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## HerrDavid (Aug 23, 2012)

Topsider, those are some great looking collar rolls.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Yes! I was going to say the same. Outstanding examples, Billax and Topsider both!



HerrDavid said:


> Topsider, those are some great looking collar rolls.


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## MarkY (Mar 24, 2005)

Is there a trick to finding OCBDs on the Brooks Brother's site? Searching for oxford cloth or OCBD turns up sport shirts. I'm looking for the extra slim fit solid OCBD. 

Thanks


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

MarkY said:


> Is there a trick to finding OCBDs on the Brooks Brother's site? Searching for oxford cloth or OCBD turns up sport shirts. I'm looking for the extra slim fit solid OCBD.
> 
> Thanks


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## MarkY (Mar 24, 2005)

Thanks. Not sure how I missed that.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Because the way they name their oxford button-downs is completely unintuitive now.


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## MarkY (Mar 24, 2005)

Anyone know the next time the BB OCBDs will be on sale?


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

MarkY said:


> Anyone know the next time the BB OCBDs will be on sale?


They are right now. I don't think that they ever really get any less expensive than 3 for $229.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Occasionally (I think around Christmas?) they do 4/$200 don't they? Also, if the 3/$229 lasts through next week, they're doing double corporate discount day again, which is how I got mine at 3/$160+ shipping


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## Dr. D (Nov 19, 2010)

MarkY said:


> Anyone know the next time the BB OCBDs will be on sale?


Usually the best sale of the year is on Dec 26. In 2013 they were 3/$209 with an extra 15% off on the 26th, which results in approximately $50 a shirt.

If you know a sales associate at your local BB store, ask them if they could place an order for you because the stores don't carry the must iron OCBDs anymore. In my experience they will offer to ship them to your home for free.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Wouldn't it be easier just to order the must-iron online?


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Dr. D said:


> If you know a sales associate at your local BB store, ask them if they could place an order for you because the stores don't carry the must iron OCBDs anymore. In my experience they will offer to ship them to your home for free.


Good to know. I'm usually in range of a BB store though not right now, and BB normal shipping charges are high.


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## Spex (Nov 25, 2012)

orange fury said:


> Occasionally (I think around Christmas?) they do 4/$200 don't they? Also, if the 3/$229 lasts through next week, they're doing double corporate discount day again, which is how I got mine at 3/$160+ shipping


I believe the 3/$229 is an everyday offer. On Nov 20th when they have the 30% off Corporate discount sale, that's a good time to buy, as you suggested.


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## HOOT (Aug 19, 2012)

There's an additional 15% discount on top of the usual 3/$229 offer right now.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Duvel said:


> Wouldn't it be easier just to order the must-iron online?





Himself said:


> Good to know. I'm usually in range of a BB store though not right now, and BB normal shipping charges are high.


^ I believe this is why.


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## Trad-ish (Feb 19, 2011)

Here is the thread from last year that lays out BB OBCD pricing: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...62295-BB-OCBD-cost-during-post-Christmas-sale


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## MarkY (Mar 24, 2005)

I pulled the trigger on 3 extra slim fit OCBDs today for $161 + tax after the corporate sale. I have Shoprunner so no shipping.


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

orange fury said:


> Occasionally (I think around Christmas?) they do 4/$200 don't they? Also, if the 3/$229 lasts through next week, they're doing double corporate discount day again, which is how I got mine at 3/$160+ shipping


What day is the double corporate discount?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Today is the day.

I pulled the trigger, as the young ones say, on three regular-fit OCBDs. This is the way to get these great shirts.



rwaldron said:


> What day is the double corporate discount?


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

Duvel said:


> Today is the day.
> 
> I pulled the trigger, as the young ones say, on three regular-fit OCBDs. This is the way to get these great shirts.


I'm freaking out. It seems that my corporate discount expired...


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

How long had you had it?


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

Duvel said:


> How long had you had it?


I don't know for a fact, but if i had to guess, it would be August 2012.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

And it can't be renewed?



rwaldron said:


> I don't know for a fact, but if i had to guess, it would be August 2012.


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

Duvel said:


> And it can't be renewed?


Well, I tried to renew, but I was having issues and getting this lovely message:


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Probably would have been time to call customer service.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

MarkY said:


> Is there a trick to finding OCBDs on the Brooks Brother's site? Searching for oxford cloth or OCBD turns up sport shirts. I'm looking for the extra slim fit solid OCBD.
> 
> Thanks


Go to brooksbrothers.com and search 132Q if you like Slim Fit.

001E if you like Traditional

E482 for Regular

529Q for Extra Slim


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Brooks Brothers calls their OCBD a dress shirt. I don't think I've ever seen it referred to as an OCBD on the BB site. It is confusing if you don't know what to look for there, but it is, in fact, their button-down collar dress shirt.


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