# Is it any wonder that they laugh at us?



## cufflink44 (Oct 31, 2005)

Deleted


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

The video was shown as part of a science class, wasn't it -LOL
Cheers


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Oh, Great Midwest...

I am really biting my tongue.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Are you sure the school wasn't in Kansas?


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Reinforces the blue state notion of the red state mentality.

I'm looking to start my own "purple" state. Intelligence, common sense and moderation a pre-requisite. Good looking blondes welcome...... Well, not everything needs to be in moderation.


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## ChubbyTiger (Mar 10, 2005)

Oh. Dear.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Learning makes the baby Jesus weep.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

"Will future ages believe that such stupid bigotry ever existed!" 
--Brian de Bois Guilbert speaking in Sir Walter Scott's "Ivanhoe" (dramatic date ca. 1196, book published in 1817)

Very readily, it would seem!


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Quoting Writer Edward Abbey "now entering Utah, set watches back 200 years."


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## RickStacy (Sep 20, 2005)

> quote:_From the news item ..._
> 
> "Waggoner, who is in her first year teaching vocal music in Bennett, said she doesn't expect to stay in town."


I'd be right with you: get while the gettin's good.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

Still....biting...tongue...


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

I guess they won't be playing "The Devil Went Down To Georgia" at the next barn dance, either.

*"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Brownshoe_
> 
> Still....biting...tongue...


B, as you may recall I second most if not all of what you're holding back....for gawd's sake man....turn it into biting satire or let it out....LOL


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

But thankfully we can lampoon the the religiously backward in this country without fearing for our lives. One only needs to look at the the cartoon crisis in Europe to see what a real culture war looks like. I am glad that we can laugh at Pat Robertson and company but at least they limit their idiocy to press releases and such and its rather doubtful that they will encourage their children to become suicide bombers and disrupt opera performances. 

Karl

P.S. Joan Sutherland with her "puppet" friends sounds a bit disturbing though!


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

JLibourel:

Revisiting this thread, I couldn't help but notice the remarkable co-incidence of our post-counts:










So it's not stigmata, but it's something.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Karl89_
> 
> Joan Sutherland with her "puppet" friends sounds a bit disturbing though!


Yes, and considering Dame Joanâ€™s size, I donâ€™t think she would have made a very credible Marguerite.

As for laughing at the US, Iâ€™ll leave that to the so-called European leftwing intellectuals. (Surely an oxymoron.) I spent three years during my middle teens in Seattle, and if I was admittedly ghettoized in one of the most liberal cities in the US, I was still old enough to grasp that I was in a country of such vast contrast and variety that the mere thought of pigeonholing would qualify as simplistic wishful thinking.

If I feel more comfortable in England, I would nevertheless invite any America-basher to experience some areas of England where setting the clocks back to early Victorian times would only be the first of many adjustments.

Furthermore, the intelligent and penetrating posts of many of the American members of AAAC earn my highest respect. America, you are home to some of the most wonderful people on this planet. May you appreciate and nurture them.

Cheers,
Jason Evans

Edit: I hope cufflink44 is still reading this thread.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

My first reaction to this was that the community's reaction was ridiculous. Then I thought that for young children another opera would have been a better choice. On my third rethinking, I realized that all the operas I could think of have either suicide, homocide, sex, or devils in them. 

My final conclusion is that all opera is the work of the devil and like all things that are his work, it is very enjoyable...but perhaps not the safest entertainment choice for children.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I saw THE MUSIC MAN opening day in Monterey. I was forever fascinated by Hermione Gringold's ejecting RABELAISE from her mouth. Years later I found a unloved, overlooked and never opened copy of Gargantua in my school library. Our librarian was a dear soul, old Atlanta Georgia stock who wore white lace gloves and censored National Geographic Photos of bare breasted african women. I laughed my head off reading about the giant's experiments in toilet paper. The book soon after was relegated to the shelf behind her desk for reserved use.


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## n/a (Sep 4, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Badrabbit_
> 
> My final conclusion is that all opera is the work of the devil and like all things that are his work, it is very enjoyable...but perhaps not the safest entertainment choice for children.


Really? Considering the vulgar and graphic assault pop culture fosters on children of any age these days, I should be surprised they would even notice the dark moments lurking behind the benignities of a Victorian opera such as _Faust_. Let us keep in mind also that it is the music appreciation paramount here. No opera ever succeeded solely on the basis of its libretto.

The Wagner operas, with their terminally pompous and verbose libretti, would have passed into oblivion long ago had they lacked that super-charged music which, like it or not, carries all before it.


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:Her critics questioned the decision to show children a portrayal of the devil, Mephistopheles, along with a scene showing a man being killed by a sword and a reference to suicide.


So, just for the record, everyone on this forum is okay with that kind of stuff being shown to their six-, seven-, and eight-year-old children.

I suppose that in this enlightened age, where seventh-grade girls are all invited to "rainbow parties"

we shouldn't be too squeamish about showing children the odd spot of terrifying images.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
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Six year olds in third grade? Must be a precocious lot in Colorado! Oh hell, when I was in that age group I was fascinated, as normal boys of my era were, with war, violence, killing, Nazis, etc. I got my first sheath knife at age seven. By the time I was eight or nine I had a pretty good assortment of edged weapons.

As to children being traumatized by a depiction of the devil, when I was in that age range, I used to pore in horrified fascination over the sombre and macabre illustrations of Dante's Inferno by Gustave Dore. I found 'em kinda scary, but they probably helped keep me on the straight and narrow!


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
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With respect to the opera film, yes, of course let young children watch it. Traditional fairy tales are full of violence, gore, etc., and by the Colorado standard are unsuitable for children. That's (IMHO) nonesense. Considering the content of videos, games, movies, etc., marketed to young children, the opera video seems pretty tame, and in my mind, innocuous.

As to _Lipstick Party_, I'm not sure where it fits in the present discussion. Of course, it isn't appropriate for primary school children, but would be, I believe, for fifth and sixth graders. Whether or not we like it, many kids that age are sexually active. But, as the book review noted, they don't think oral sex is real sex. (That translates, among other things, into not worrying about STD's.) If the book gets kids and their parents thinking about and discussing the world as it is, that's a good thing.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## cufflink44 (Oct 31, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
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With all due respect, FlatSix, if I'm interpreting your post correctly, you've made the most far-fetched slippery slope argument I've ever seen: "Let 'em watch Gounod's Faust, and the next thing you know, they'll be going to oral sex parties!" Please.

As for the "terrifying images," let's keep in mind that this is OPERA! Mephistopheles in Faust has some good basso arias, but he's about as terrifying as Mr. Magoo. And the swordplay they talked about is _operatic_ swordplay, not footage from CNN.

Kids are no strangers to staged violence. When they play Cowboys and . . . um . . . Native Americans, or Cops and Robbers, one "shoots" the other, who falls down "dead." Not much lasting psychological trauma there, I don't think. And by the way, should we censor The Brothers Grimm? Their fairy tales can be pretty scary. And how about Tolkien?

It's clear that the good folks in that Colorado town aren't concerned about "terrifying images." What they object to is the portrayal of the Devil in any way, shape, or form. Their fundamentalist religion believes in a literal Devil, and they're worried that if kids see ol' Beelzebub on the screen, they're liable to fall into his clutches. At least that's my take on it.

I guess they'd be a lot happier if their kids were exposed to Biblical content instead of that Satanic opery stuff. Hmm. I wonder what that would be . . . Let's see . . . A man found gathering sticks on the Sabbath is stoned to death; kids ridiculing a bald prophet are mauled by a bear; a house collapses on a bunch of young partygoers, killing everyone inside; all the males in a town, having just been circumcised so they're in no shape to fight back, are slaughtered; a woman is turned into a pillar of salt; all the inhabitants of a city--men, women, children, infants, even the farm animals--are massacred; two copulating lovers are impaled on the same spear . . .

Yep, it's too bad our kids can't be exposed to good wholesome content like that instead of that Godless opera stuff.

----------------------------------------------------------
Ah, Love! could you and I with Fate conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire,
Would not we shatter it to bits--and then
Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire!

Fitzgerald, _Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam_, 2nd ed.:CVIII


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

It takes a village [idiot] to raise a child.


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cufflink44_
> With all due respect, FlatSix, if I'm interpreting your post correctly, you've made the most far-fetched slippery slope argument I've ever seen: "Let 'em watch Gounod's Faust, and the next thing you know, they'll be going to oral sex parties!" Please.
> 
> As for the "terrifying images," let's keep in mind that this is OPERA! Mephistopheles in Faust has some good basso arias, but he's about as terrifying as Mr. Magoo. And the swordplay they talked about is _operatic_ swordplay, not footage from CNN.
> ...


If I am slippery-sloping, you are certainly letting the best be the enemy of the good.

I cannot see anything wrong with prolonging the innocence of children as long as reasonably possible. We have our entire lives to confront our demons, if you will pardon the pun. We have our entire lives to observe violence and sexuality. What is so wrong about keeping it away from kids, even in the form of an opera?



> quote:It's clear that the good folks in that Colorado town aren't concerned about "terrifying images." What they object to is the portrayal of the Devil in any way, shape, or form. Their fundamentalist religion believes in a literal Devil, and they're worried that if kids see ol' Beelzebub on the screen, they're liable to fall into his clutches. At least that's my take on it.


As a community, they have that right, and they are exercising it in a manner which, compared to many other religious communities' actions, is extremely mild.

If I obtained a position teaching in San Francisco and exposed young children to the record "A.I.D.S." by that old rascal Billy Milano, I would receive a much less measured response - I would be fired, escorted off the premises, and perhaps assaulted.

If I obtained a position teaching Muslim children in Iran and I exposed young children to _The Satanic Verses_, do you suppose I would live to pick up my severance pay?

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## android (Dec 8, 2004)

Opera isn't for children. The tickets are too damn expensive!


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by android_
> 
> Opera isn't for children. The tickets are too damn expensive!


LOL - You win the best post to this thread - esp. if you talking dress circle - LOL
Cheers


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Sixer,
You know I respect your wit and intellect highly. Consequently, I find it hard to believe that you could fall for the delusion of "prolonging the innocence of children." The notion that children are somehow "innocent" and "pure" is a piece of Victorian sentimental sap-headedness on a par with that era's tendency to ascribe the same characteristics to women.

Fact is, anyone who has been around small children for any length of time knows that they are utterly self-centered, violent and capable of being cruel beyond belief! They are also suprisingly smutty and lascivious, often as not. Aside from the simple empirical evidence of being around children, the notion of childlike innocence flies in the face of the revealed truths of the Christian religion and the underpinnings of conservative philosophy. As one priest wisely remarked to our congregation, "If you want to see Original Sin in action in its purest form, just hang around a preschool playground for any length of time!" My own mother had a wise theory of pedagogy: She said of young children, "Force is the only language they understand."

Reminds me of a little story of my dear old grandfather. He would put the TV on without sound to warm it up before viewing the shows he wanted to. (This was a LONG time ago.) Anyway, some sort of vintage sci-fi adventure was on: Two men were fleeing a tank-like vehicle and took refuge in a cave, whereupon the "tank" turned a heat ray on the cave mouth and you saw the two men being burned alive in molten lava. At that point the filmed action ceased and (in the manner of children's shows of that era) the camera cut to the studio audience of very young children laughing, cheering and beaming in fiendish glee over the horrifying spectacle they had been watching. To make matters even more grotesque, they were accompanied by a painted clown. Still a teenager then, I expressed my shock at the eager bloodthirstiness of the little tots. My grandfather replied, "What can you expect? They're just a bunch of little savages."


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> I find it hard to believe that you could fall for the delusion of "prolonging the innocence of children." The notion that children are somehow "innocent" and "pure" is a piece of Victorian sentimental sap-headedness on a par with that era's tendency to ascribe the same characteristics to women.


Is W.C. Fields your hero?


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by KenR_
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I don't know about Jan, but I near-worship the man. W.C., that is.

Jan is absolutely correct. The Victorians passed along to us all manner of dumb ideas, the inviolate "innocence" of children being one of the more pernicious. William Golding, of course, tried to explode this myth with _Lord of the Flies_ - a career as a schoolmaster will do that to a man. _The Simpsons_ has great fun with this foolish notion, not least with "The Itchy and Scratchy Show," the hyper-violent cartoon-within-a-cartoon that always leaves Bart and Lisa in stitches. The idea that a normal child would be traumatized or morally corrupted by viewing a videotaped discussion of Gounod's _Faust_ is flatly absurd; which means it is simple "common sense" in God's Country.

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

Yckmwia, even though we come from very different intellectual starting points, you have always impressed me as a very clear-headed man.

I have made it a matter of policy to keep out of strictly political discussions in these fora, but, truth be told, I would probably make you look like some flag-waving neocon super-patriot by comparison!


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
> The Victorians passed along to us all manner of dumb ideas, the inviolate "innocence" of children being one of the more pernicious.


I must continue to disagree with you and JLib on this. Children are innately cruel, to be certain; they are also certainly better off for having limited exposure to realistic violence, sexuality, and other "adult" material. Is there anyone on this forum who wishes he had been exposed to *additional* violence and sexuality as a child?



> quote:The idea that a normal child would be traumatized or morally corrupted by viewing a videotaped discussion of Gounod's _Faust_ is flatly absurd; which means it is simple "common sense" in God's Country.


It would amuse me to no end were you to live long enough to be victimized by the amoral, relativist, muddle-headed society so you desperately want to come to pass.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> Is there anyone on this forum who wishes he had been exposed to *additional* violence and sexuality as a child?


If you qualify that with "in entertainment," my answer would be, "Sure." Actual violence, obviously not. Sexuality? Depends on the cutoff point for "child." When I hear these cases about adult women initiating boys of 13 or so, I always think, "Dammit, where were such women when I needed them!" (Leastwise if they're good looking...)[}]


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> Yckmwia, even though we come from very different intellectual starting points, you have always impressed me as a very clear-headed man.
> 
> I have made it a matter of policy to keep out of strictly political discussions in these fora, but, truth be told, I would probably make you look like some flag-waving neocon super-patriot by comparison!


My goodness, Jan. According to some on this list, I stand somewhere to the left of Mao; if so, that would make you a Trot, at the very least, if not a Deleonist. (It's hard, very hard, keeping all these lefties straight.) No matter. From one left coaster to another, a tip of the Borsalino, and a shot of rum _and_ tequila (one in each hand). Cheers.

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

Oh sorry - I thought this was about the "Is this a trad belt?" thread...


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
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Actually, in the days of my misspent youth I was a Deleonist![:I] These days I would describe my views as more pure nihilist (with a right-wing bent) than anything else. However, I would be glad to join you or any other forumite for some good rum. I have pretty much O.D.ed on tequila since the mishap I described in the "problem drinking" thread. [:I]


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
> 
> You neednâ€™t hold your breath. It seems that a society in which teachers are free to discuss _opera_ with their young students without persecution from yokels and boneheads is a distant dream in our fair and pleasant land. Thus, I am sure to live out the balance of my life in a nation that will go to absurd length to protect its children from illusive dangers, yet thinks nothing of exposing the children of other nations to the very real terrors of cluster bombs, napalm, and white phosphorus. Same as it ever was.


As usual, you're being merely silly. The cultural victory of America's Left is so complete that a community's concern about portraying the Devil to its children has been elevated to "man bites dog" news status.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## rws (May 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by cufflink44_
> I post this [because] . . . I think we need a little comic relief here. . . .
> https://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1299/santy.html


Terribly offensive. Which embassies should we start burning, and whom should we kill?


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## Yckmwia (Mar 29, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
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Man bites dog? Hardly. The story oozing out of Bennett, Colorado is of a kind that is depressingly commonplace, although the details may be more or less unique. Meanwhile, in the Department of Jibes, confusion reigns. One moment you yearn for my comeuppance as follows:



> quote:It would amuse me to no end were you to live long enough to be victimized by the amoral, relativist, muddle-headed society so you desperately want to come to pass.


Yet, the next moment you announce that this state of affairs has already arrived, at least in part, as the "cultural victory of America's Left is . . . complete." Caught in this maelstrom of confused insult, one does not know whether rejoice or despair. However, should I be victimized any time soon, I shall make a complete report.

And tell us again: how does one get from a discussion of opera in childhood to "rainbow parties" in adolescence?

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." Thomas Jefferson


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Yckmwia_
> Man bites dog? Hardly. The story oozing out of Bennett, Colorado is of a kind that is depressingly commonplace, although the details may be more or less unique.


If that is the case, I suppose we can look for headlines like the following:

* Woman in Chevy Tahoe Changes Lanes Without Signaling
* Pizza Place Making Some Deliveries Tonight
* DukeGrad Makes Oracular Statement In Reference To Entirely Ordinary Discussion



> quote:Caught in this maelstrom of confused insult, one does not know whether rejoice or despair. However, should I be victimized any time soon, I shall make a complete report.


It takes a generation for media babblings to become "common sense" as you would put it.



> quote:And tell us again: how does one get from a discussion of opera in childhood to "rainbow parties" in adolescence?


The common thread is the inappropriateness of sharing adult material with children.

If children are really just smaller adults, as some of you would have us believe, we might as well reverse *all* the so-called improvements of the Victorians and put those kids back to work. Think of how much smaller the economic loss is to society when children are killed in mines instead of adults.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## cufflink44 (Oct 31, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> The common thread is the inappropriateness of sharing adult material with children.


No one is advocating that all material meant for adults is appropriate for children. If I had a kid in elementary school who was shown _Last Tango in Paris_, or _Pulp Fiction_, or _Debbie Does Dallas_, I'd have a problem too. What has some of us shaking our heads is _this specific misapplication _ of the protective principle: the inclusion of Gounod's _Faust_ in the Index Operum Prohibitorum by a group of--in the most charitable terms I can muster--possibly well-meaning but certainly misguided and uninformed parents.

I'm an unlikely defender of the merits of _Faust_. Despite some still listenable music, it's a creaky, quintessentially old-fashioned opera that's held in nowhere the high esteem it once was. But a Satanic vehicle that will terrify and corrupt young kids? Ridiculous. As a matter of fact, if these parents had taken the trouble to look up the plot, they'd have found that traditional Christian values are upheld throughout. In the end, Marguerite, who has made some bad choices, abandons Faust and turns to Heaven: "Anges purs, anges radieux: Pure angels, radiant angels, lift up my soul to the bosom of heaven!" And the celestial choir responds, "Saved! Christ is risen!"

Ironic, n'est-ce pas?

----------------------------------------------------------
Ah, Love! could you and I with Fate conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire,
Would not we shatter it to bits--and then
Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire!

Fitzgerald, _Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam_, 2nd ed.:CVIII


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cufflink44_
> As a matter of fact, if these parents had taken the trouble to look up the plot, they'd find that conventional Christian values are upheld throughout.


Hmm... I suppose you interviewed all the parents involved and determined they've never read anything other than _Soap Opera Digest?_

I'm going to put this to the test. My brother runs a retail store in southwestern Ohio. I'll have him offer an additional discount to every customer who can retell the Faustian legend in some recognizable form, for a month, and see how the American unwashed does.

It's kind of funny, I suppose - the American rural white is the last group of people our coastal elites are still willing to publicly denigrate and stereotype.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Brownshoe_
> 
> Oh, Great Midwest...
> 
> I am really biting my tongue.


Since when is Colorado in the mid-west? It's not. Your smugness is wasted.


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## bosthist (Apr 4, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rocker_
> 
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A recent study by a cultural geographer in which people self identified the region of the country in which they live found Kansas to be the center of the Midwest. This concept of the Midwest extended into the flatlands of eastern Colorado which I believe is where the offended town is located. As an Iowan this baffles me, given that anything past the 100th meridian seems like too much trouble to farm and conflicts with what I think of as the Midwest. I would call that area of Colorado part of the Great Plains. So there you have it and it wasn't even the liberal cultural elite calling it the Midwest, it was the actual people living there.


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## cufflink44 (Oct 31, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> It's kind of funny, I suppose - the American rural white is the last group of people our coastal elites are still willing to publicly denigrate and stereotype.


C'mon, FlatSix, you know that's not fair. Pointing out the (IMO) ludicrous behavior of this particular group of rural parents (I don't know or care about their race) is hardly tantamount to publicly denigrating and stereotyping all of white, rural America.

As for being a coastal elitist, well, I plead guilty to the coastal charge. Elitist, though? That's not how I think of myself. Not that anyone is interested in my biography, but my background is hardly elite. My Dad was born in a tiny Jewish village in Eastern Europe, and after arriving in New York City at the age of 9, his education went all the way up to the eighth grade. I went to public schools, not prep schools. And when I was in college, I spent every summer working for the U.S. Post Office, delivering mail on foot. The first time I left New York was after college, when I flew off to begin my training for the Peace Corps. Not the expected career path for your average elitist, I wouldn't think.

You don't have to be an elitist to decry narrowmindedness and stupidity, which is found in abundance all across the planet and not confined to any geographical area or social group.

Anyway . . . as we Left Coasters are wont to say, have a nice day.

----------------------------------------------------------
Ah, Love! could you and I with Fate conspire
To grasp this sorry Scheme of Things entire,
Would not we shatter it to bits--and then
Re-mould it nearer to the Heart's Desire!

Fitzgerald, _Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam_, 2nd ed.:CVIII


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cufflink44_
> C'mon, FlatSix, you know that's not fair. Pointing out the (IMO) ludicrous behavior of this particular group of rural parents (I don't know or care about their race) is hardly tantamount to publicly denigrating and stereotyping all of white, rural America.


Would you make the same comment - which boils down to _Them hicks don't know no literacher_ - about a group of parents in Rowayton, CT?

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"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## bosthist (Apr 4, 2004)

In reality, the story is far more complex than posters here are making it out to be. I would suggest everyone read the following story about this incident, which provides more depth: 



It certainly sounds to me like most people in the community were fine with the video being shown.


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