# Muffy and the Belt Factory...



## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Our favorite Mayflower descendant takes us on a little tour of the Eliza B. / Leatherman Ltd. facilities in Fairfield, CT via The Daily Prep. I don't know about you guys but, I imagined Eliza B. as looking....erm..."different." In any case, it's nice to see the people and places behind our favorite products.

On another note, this photo, taken at the Eliza B. store, showed up on the web. It appears to be a Leatherman Ltd. needlepoint nautical flag belt. I think it'd be great to have another source for needlepoints, but Leatherman Ltd. has ignored my inquiries on the matter and Muffy has politely dodged them so, it's a mystery for now.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Got an Austin Jeffers hoof pick belt, very nice especially for the price.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> On another note, this photo, taken at the Eliza B. store, showed up on the web. It appears to be a Leatherman Ltd. needlepoint nautical flag belt. I think it'd be great to have another source for needlepoints, but Leatherman Ltd. has ignored my inquiries on the matter and Muffy has politely dodged them so, it's a mystery for now.


Is it possible they have been manufacturing for S&B, TB, or another brand?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Taken Aback said:


> Is it possible they have been manufacturing for S&B, TB, or another brand?


As far as I know, both S&B and TB have their needlepoint straps made offshore. I know for a fact S&B sources them from Vietnam. If Eliza B. is making them in CT, they'd be the only ones I know of made in USA.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

One point I thought I might raise in the context is that some manufacturers of these novelty belts are now using a composite leather for their belts, basically comprised of leather powder and scraps, rather than pieces cut from a hide. This I learned from one of the manufacturers who claims not to use this sort of product. Besides being aesthetically distasteful, this type of 'leather' is prone to stretching. 

Does anyone have any idea as to where Muffy is going with her blog and jaunts to all of these purveyors of preppy accoutrements? I can't believe that it is purely public service that motivates her blog. Is she angling for some sort of Martha Stewart television program for the better sorts? I'm somewhat fascinated by her apparent lack of self-consciousness to the extremely rarefied world she presents without any sense of irony or shame. Or is she motivated by a certain noblesse oblige to share with us her access to these remote enclaves that most of us have no access to?


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

hardline_42 said:


> Our favorite Mayflower descendant takes us on a little tour of the Eliza B. / Leatherman Ltd. facilities in Fairfield, CT via The Daily Prep. I don't know about you guys but, I imagined Eliza B. as looking....erm..."different." In any case, it's nice to see the people and places behind our favorite products.


OK, I'll bite, what were you expecting her to look like?

Brian


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I wanted to know what the Leather Man looks like. I'm hoping for Leatherface, in a buttondown.

Now that I see what Eliza B looks like i think I might have to go investigate myself.

I just got a couple of Leather Man belts during their recent promo — I like the way they promise three weeks and then do it in five days.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

vwguy said:


> OK, I'll bite, what were you expecting her to look like?
> 
> Brian


LOL. Can't speak for others, but I had envisioned a pleasingly plump, grandmotherly type, with her gray hair done up in a severe bun and with a somewhat patronizing look on her face, poorly disguising the frustration at having her latest needlepoint creative effort interrupted for a photograph!


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## Tiger (Apr 11, 2010)

Recently purchased a maroon surcingle and an Italian calfskin dark brown dress belt during the Eliza B. 25% sale. I have a few surcingles from Eliza B. - the macrame ones are better/nicer than the regular surcingles, but all are very good, especially for a reasonably priced American-made product. The calfskin belt (also American-made) is not quite as nice as AE dress belts, but it is comparable, and at half the price (when not on sale) they're a superb purchase.

Would be difficult to find American belts of this quality at this price level elsewhere, I believe...


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## DFPyne (Mar 2, 2010)

I wonder if Eliza B. would be willing to make belt straps for Engine Turned Belt Buckles? Might be worth reaching out to her.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

I'll gladly, ahem, reach out to her....


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I learned about Muffy from this forum a year or two ago, and spent some time reading around the blog, and my reaction was decidedly negative; this thread prompted another session, and I must say The Daily Prep has grown on me. It seems less dogmatic, less show-offy and name-droppy (anti-prep qualities which negated the good parts the first time around for me) and full of wonderful photographs.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

vwguy said:


> OK, I'll bite, what were you expecting her to look like?
> 
> Brian





eagle2250 said:


> LOL. Can't speak for others, but I had envisioned a pleasingly plump, grandmotherly type, with her gray hair done up in a severe bun and with a somewhat patronizing look on her face, poorly disguising the frustration at having her latest needlepoint creative effort interrupted for a photograph!


^^ This! Mostly, I'm surprised at how young she is. It turns out I hold this stereotype that all owners of businesses that sell niche products and still manufacture in the USA are old, because a) they built their customer base when domestic labor was more affordable and are surviving on customer loyalty and b) they're from an older school of thought and refuse to go for the easy money by offshoring their product. It's nice to see young entrepreneurs making quality, traditional items and producing them domestically. It doesn't hurt that she's easy on the eyes!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> I learned about Muffy from this forum a year or two ago, and spent some time reading around the blog, and my reaction was decidedly negative; this thread prompted another session, and I must say The Daily Prep has grown on me. It seems less dogmatic, less show-offy and name-droppy (anti-prep qualities which negated the good parts the first time around for me) and full of wonderful photographs.


Rambler, I know what you mean. For me, the low point was this entry. Nothing screams "I want attention" like babysitting a bunch of neo-prep blogoshpere caricatures for photo ops. But I think that things have gotten much better since. Especially the entries about local towns and events in coastal Maine.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> Our favorite Mayflower descendant takes us on a little tour of the Eliza B. / Leatherman Ltd. facilities in Fairfield, CT via The Daily Prep. I don't know about you guys but, I imagined Eliza B. as looking....erm..."different." In any case, it's nice to see the people and places behind our favorite products.
> 
> On another note, this photo, taken at the Eliza B. store, showed up on the web. It appears to be a Leatherman Ltd. needlepoint nautical flag belt. I think it'd be great to have another source for needlepoints, but Leatherman Ltd. has ignored my inquiries on the matter and Muffy has politely dodged them so, it's a mystery for now.


What an attractive young woman!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Just a general update, Muffy replied to my question about the needlepoints. She said they used to be on the Austin Jeffers site and were made to order (with about a month lead time). They had several in the case but she didn't check sizes or take note of what styles they were. I think I might call on Monday to see what's available. They might be selling for cheap if they're returns or left-over stock.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Patrick06790 said:


> I wanted to know what the Leather Man looks like.


It's hard to tell because of the gillie hat pulled down over his face, but he can often be recognized from the fly rod in his hand.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Update number two:

Eliza wrote back:



> Dear Brian,
> What size are you looking for? We do have some in stock at our fairfield location.
> Your size will dictate what we have available. At the moment we only offer our needle point belts with the finish work you see in the photo.
> All the best,
> Eliza


I asked her for a list of available sizes and designs, in case anyone is interested.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

xcubbies said:


> ...Does anyone have any idea as to where Muffy is going with her blog and jaunts to all of these purveyors of preppy accoutrements? I can't believe that it is purely public service that motivates her blog. Is she angling for some sort of Martha Stewart television program for the better sorts? I'm somewhat fascinated by her apparent lack of self-consciousness to the extremely rarefied world she presents without any sense of irony or shame. Or is she motivated by a certain noblesse oblige to share with us her access to these remote enclaves that most of us have no access to?


I am acquainted with Muffy. I don't know her precise motivations for the blog but she is not "angling" for anything like you refer to, at least to the best of my knowledge.

Not sure about the "rarefied world" that you refer to. She hangs out a lot in Maine, likes to sail, buys a lot of preppy products...not exactly hoi polloi but on the other hand pretty far from Jackie O.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> I asked her for a list of available sizes and designs, in case anyone is interested.


I am. Serves me right for not perusing Jeffer's side of the site. I missed them.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

If I might also come to Muffy's defense: My initial take was similar to Rambler's, but at the time I was also a new New England resident. Now in my third year here with plenty of time spent outside of Fairfield county, I really don't see Muffy as that unusual. Certainly not everyone is a public diarist, but I no longer find anything off-putting about the tone of her blog and find her to be "par for the course" in terms of New England families. Now I quite enjoy her blog. I can also credit her with finding Monarch of The Glen, though I watched it streaming over Netflix and didn't enjoy the walking scale of a traditional New England town on my way to fetch the discs at my local library, a wing of which was donated by my great great great great grandfather who, coincidentally, founded the state. (-;


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## Reptilicus (Dec 14, 2004)

xcubbies said:


> Does anyone have any idea as to where Muffy is going with her blog and jaunts to all of these purveyors of preppy accoutrements? I can't believe that it is purely public service that motivates her blog. Is she angling for some sort of Martha Stewart television program for the better sorts? I'm somewhat fascinated by her apparent lack of self-consciousness to the extremely rarefied world she presents without any sense of irony or shame. Or is she motivated by a certain noblesse oblige to share with us her access to these remote enclaves that most of us have no access to?


I've been a regular reader of The Daily Prep for over a year and have enjoyed it a great deal. The Blog is not just about style. It's also apple pie recipes, free range chickens, Maine architecture, dogs in boats, and other glimpses of Maine living.


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

I've come to like her blog. Though the odd entry still makes me want to commit mass-murder...


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

I think Eliza B looks just about as I fantasized she would. Sort of a younger more animated version of Muffy.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Update:

I got a more detailed response from Eliza-



> Dear Brian,
> 
> Thank you for your interest, we currently source the needlepoint and can get any of the following designs.Since we do the finish work we can do the traditional Leather Man Brown with Yellow stitch and Brass buckle (shown) or black leather with silver if you prefer.
> If you are looking to place a large order, and don't mind waiting for us to get in the desired needlepoint strips (which can take up to 4 weeks) we will make make what ever you would like in any size.
> ...



















Designs:









_Goldens_









_Code Flags_









_Alligators_









_Pigs_









_Flamingos_









_Black Labs_









_Lobsters_









_Stripers
_








_Tarpon_









_Crabs_









_Pirates_









_Ships Wheel_

I'm hoping to find out where they "source" their needlepoint strips (doesn't sound promising) and pricing as well. I'll update this post with any new info. It seems like these are available for order, they just aren't advertised. Feel free to call them directly for more info.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

hardline_42 said:


> I'm hoping to find out where they "source" their needlepoint strips (doesn't sound promising) and pricing as well. I'll update this post with any new info. It seems like these are available for order, they just aren't advertised. Feel free to call them directly for more info.


Very interesting, keep us posted.

Brian


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
 Does anyone ever craft a needlepoint belt with freshwater fish on it...like a beautifully colored rainbow trout? :icon_scratch:


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Does anyone ever craft a needlepoint belt with freshwater fish on it...like a beautifully colored rainbow trout? :icon_scratch:


They do indeed.

https://www.tuckerblair.com/rainbow-trout-needlepoint-belt-9.html
https://www.northriveroutfitter.com...d=3757&img=6166&thumbsize=tiny&fullsize=large


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Thank you, hardline 42. Hopefully you have just generated a sale for North River Outfitters! Thanks again.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Eagle, that's just the first website that came up when I googled it. If you go to you can buy them direct for the same price and they have a larger selection of freshwater fish and fly designs to chose from.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Ihave an S&B: they have an outstanding, colorful collection of trout and flies, as Hardline says. They're costly, like $165, but well worth a look.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Update:

She's onto us, so I hope everyone minds their Ps and Qs.



> Dear Brian,
> 
> I tried to reply directly to the thread on www.askandyaboutclothes.com so you wouldn't have to do so much copy and pasting, but I didn't have access.At any rate, the belts are 130.00, the needlepoint comes from haiti and we do the finish work.
> What we offer as a small company in the US is quality, competitive pricing, and a good demeanor.
> ...


So there you go. Not made entirely overseas (like Tucker Blair) and priced at $35 less than Smathers & Branson with relatively few, but original designs. If you're a fan of needlepoints, I think there's a place for these in your collection. I wish I had known about these during the tent sale. I would've snatched the pig belt up for only $97.50.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

hardline_42 said:


> Eagle, that's just the first website that came up when I googled it. If you go to you can buy them direct for the same price and they have a larger selection of freshwater fish and fly designs to chose from.





The Rambler said:


> Ihave an S&B: they have an outstanding, colorful collection of trout and flies, as Hardline says. They're costly, like $165, but well worth a look.


Thanks much for the information. Smathers and Branson do have an impressive inventory of designs. Looks like I've got some serious shopping to do...perhaps drop a hint or two to Mrs Santa about those that don't fit into this month's budget. Thanks again!


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

hardline_42 said:


> Update:
> 
> She's onto us, so I hope everyone minds their Ps and Qs.


They *are* watching us 

Brian


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> ... For me, the low point was this entry. Nothing screams "I want attention" like babysitting a bunch of neo-prep blogoshpere caricatures for photo ops. ......


Well said and absolutely correct. Even going back to that entry makes me cringe - a lowpoint for her blog, which I generally like.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Epaminondas said:


> Well said and absolutely correct. Even going back to that entry makes me cringe - a lowpoint for her blog, which I generally like.


Ouch, I'd not seen that post.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

vwguy said:


> They *are* watching us
> 
> Brian


I think Eliza has dossiers on us all. The last time I spoke to Connie, it sounded like she knew what I was going to order before I said a word. I think I've been profiled.

While I check the house for bugs, I just want to say how wonderful every experience has been with the staff at Leather Man Ltd./ElizaB, and that I'm willing to name names of those who have ordered Preston Ribbon products.


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## MDunle3199 (Jun 5, 2009)

If anyone is near Essex in the Summer on a Saturday you've got to get to the outlet. They were selling ribbon belts for $15 a piece. My favorite part of the store is that in the back office part they have those sarcastic Demotivational posters framed on the walls. A nice touch.


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## TomS (Mar 29, 2010)

Epaminondas said:


> Well said and absolutely correct. Even going back to that entry makes me cringe - a lowpoint for her blog, which I generally like.


No love for KJP around here then?


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't really think so. Or $40-60 bracelets no matter what the source.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Nope. Can't see the appeal.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

TomS said:


> No love for KJP around here then?


For me, his stuff falls into the category of "I think it's cool, but I wouldn't wear it"...although sometimes I kinda do want to wear it. Give him credit, he found a niche and built a business around it.

Brian


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## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

Muffy still continues to both delight and horrify me in equal measure.

In the comments section on her latest blog entry someone has quite innocently referred to her as 'Muppy'...

Made me smile.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Is Eliza B/Leatherman still doing needlepoint belts? I couldn't find them on their web site.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Maybe they feared LE. LE _has_ added a couple recently.


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## herfitup (Mar 4, 2012)

Muffy is a New England treasure. I just hope there is another generation coming behind her to spread the word. This is the way New England lived before places like AAAC. You learned from your elders about what is acceptable in dress and behavior.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Topsider said:


> Is Eliza B/Leatherman still doing needlepoint belts? I couldn't find them on their web site.


They don't advertise them on the website, but they're available. Just call and let them know what you want.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> They don't advertise them on the website, but they're available. Just call and let them know what you want.


I have no issue with calling them (well, maybe not at _this_ hour), but did they mention to you what designs they already have in hand?


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

herfitup said:


> This is the way New England lived before places like AAAC. You learned from your elders about what is acceptable in dress and behavior.


 Yeah, that doesn't happen anywhere else.........


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Taken Aback said:


> I have no issue with calling them (well, maybe not at _this_ hour), but did they mention to you what designs they already have in hand?


I haven't really had any contact with Eliza on the subject since post #25. She did mention that it can take up to 4 weeks to source a needlepoint strip that they don't have in stock. Your best bet is to call or email and find out what they have available at the Fairfield store.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Epaminondas said:


> Yeah, that doesn't happen anywhere else.........


Are you questioning our quaint New England ways?


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Indeed! LOL. Is New England not the Trad "Promised Land" and what heathen is this, who would dare to question sartorial Valhalla?


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

herfitup said:


> Muffy is a New England treasure.


Is that you, Muffy?


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

I posted this on the fashion forum, in case you missed it. Muffy at her best...

https://www.muffyaldrich.com/search/label/Barbour


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## herfitup (Mar 4, 2012)

Tilton said:


> Is that you, Muffy?


Muffy wishes she had my beer belly. :biggrin2:


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## Hayek (Jun 20, 2006)

I used to find her blog tremendously off-putting because it was painfully obvious that she was putting in an absolutely enormous amount of effort, money, and attention into effecting a natural, laid-back, _sprezzatura_ type of look. All this despite the fact that she seems to be a very legitimate New England blue blood. Why spend so much time on something that is--or should be--natural to you? It seemed a bit odd.

That yachting post with Kiel James Patrick is a perfect example of what I found so grating about her. It looks like a fun day. But come on, no one really _does this_. A little too happy and a little too staged. The group jump into the water at the end really jumped the shark.

Contrast this with Tin Tin over at "The Trad," the Heavy Tweed Jacket guy, and Giuseppe at "An Affordable Wardrobe," three gents who, from what I can tell, were not "born into" this style but who maintain blogs that are extraordinarily open and warm. It's clear that these guys really have fun with what they're doing. Tin Tin especially does an amazing job of weaving (excuse the pun) clothes into his various life stories.

Muffy seems to be maintaining a museum in comparison. It's all quite nice, but rather austere and cold.

I've come around to her lately. Her blog is much, MUCH better than it was, or my tolerance for her has increased. But it still lacks the warmth and enthusiasm that of the other big trad blogs.


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## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

xcubbies said:


> Are you questioning our quaint New England ways?


Nah, dude - I love Pepperidge Farm, KJP, and other authentic voices of New England (that was sarcasm for the more literal minded) ....... I was merely questioning the assertion that being taught "from [one's] elders about what is acceptable in dress and behavior" was somehown unique to, or disintiguishing of, New England.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

cdavant said:


> I posted this on the fashion forum, in case you missed it. Muffy at her best...
> 
> https://www.muffyaldrich.com/search/label/Barbour


Muffy...not so much, but damn, I wish I hadn't seen that Barbour, tweed, Fishing Jacket she was eyeballing!


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Epaminondas said:


> Nah, dude - I love Pepperidge Farm, KJP, and other authentic voices of New England (that was sarcasm for the more literal minded) ....... I was merely questioning the assertion that being taught "from [one's] elders about what is acceptable in dress and behavior" was somehown unique to, or disintiguishing of, New England.


You mean Pepperidge Farm isn't an authentic feature of New England? Next thing you're going to tell me Santa Claus visits children South of Connecticut.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Epaminondas said:


> Nah, dude - I love Pepperidge Farm, KJP, and other authentic voices of New England (that was sarcasm for the more literal minded) ....... I was merely questioning the assertion that being taught "from [one's] elders about what is acceptable in dress and behavior" was somehown unique to, or disintiguishing of, New England.


Yes, I caught the sarcasm. I think that this belief that "being taught from [one's] elders about what is acceptable in dress and behavior'" is somewhat nostalgic. Perhaps the "behavior" aspect is true, though the less attractive elements, i.e., if my parents were alcoholics I'm likely to be one, are equally accurate. The implication that this is an attribute of refinement is a bit hopeful.

This urge to hold on to elements of a happier, simpler time are appreciated and shared. I can report, however, that where I live, in one of those bastions that Muffy has acknowledged as one of the finer in the region, I very rarely see anyone in tweeds, Aldens, or any of the accoutrements we so worship here. When I go to PTA meetings or high school lacrosse games parents are all wearing fleece, jeans and Merrells or running shoes. Downtown I see more men in suits sporting squared-toed, rubber soled shoes and double vents, probably bought at Macys, than we would imagine.

What I fine humorous on Muffy's blog, which I occasionally visit, are the 'action' shots of her walking away with her most recent acquisitions in hand. I think her promotion of independent manufacturers and quality goods is positive. But I find that taint of elitism and privilige offputting. It's a bit curious in that her husband's writings on education, which she claims is hers as well, seem to be progressive and liberal. Of course New England and its colonial antecedents are well associated with progressive thoughts and ideals, because of, or despite, their lineage.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

xcubbies said:


> It's a bit curious in that her husband's writings on education, which she claims is hers as well, seem to be progressive and liberal. Of course New England and its colonial antecedents are well associated with progressive thoughts and ideals, because of, or despite, their lineage.


Have you read Unschooling Rules? My entire family is in the education business (family-owned private school) and I've been meaning to pick up a copy to see what it's all about. I have an inkling that it's probably not as "progressive" at it is just different from the status quo.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

hardline_42 said:


> Have you read Unschooling Rules? My entire family is in the education business (family-owned private school) and I've been meaning to pick up a copy to see what it's all about. I have an inkling that it's probably not as "progressive" at it is just different from the status quo.


No, haven't seen it.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

When I first learned here about The Daily Prep, I thought it must be a spoof, but eventually realized she is serious. Recently, I read that both Muffin and Mr. Muff belong to The Society of the Descendants of the Founding Fathers of New England. Following the link, I discovered that my earliest New England ancestor arrived one year too late (1650) for me to qualify. While I think her approach is over-cute, and some of her clothing choices approach costume, I must admit she is at least one year more "authentic" than I.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

godan said:


> When I first learned here about The Daily Prep, I thought it must be a spoof, but eventually realized she is serious. Recently, I read that both Muffin and Mr. Muff belong to The Society of the Descendants of the Founding Fathers of New England. Following the link, I discovered that my earliest New England ancestor arrived one year too late (1650) for me to qualify. While I think her approach is over-cute, and some of her clothing choices approach costume, I must admit she is at least one year more "authentic" than I.


Meh. I saw that link. I qualify five times over. I would never join. Not only is it a pointless, elitist organization that does, effectively, nothing, but they misspelled "surprise" on their "About Us" page, which makes their claim of superiority null in my eyes.


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## Reldresal (Oct 13, 2011)

Tilton said:


> Meh. I saw that link. I qualify five times over. I would never join. Not only is it a pointless, elitist organization that does, effectively, nothing, but they misspelled "surprise" on their "About Us" page, which makes their claim of superiority null in my eyes.


I'd never heard of the organization, but I would certainly qualify. Not my cup of tea. Especially so once I encountered the this information on the Governer-General of the organization (don't know whether to laugh or retch at the title) on the homepage:

Member of The International Society of the Descendants of CharlemagneDescendant of King Edward III & Descendant of the Knights of the GarterMember of the Society of Mayflower Descendants in the State of New HampshireCaptain Myles Standish 1584-1656, George Soule 1602-1680Francis Eaton 1600-1633 and Edward Doty 1598-1655Descendant Member of the National Society of Magna Charta BaronsSaire IV de Quincy 1155-1219Descendant Member of the Fairbanks Family in America, Jonathan Fairbanks 1590-1668Descendant Member of the Kimball Family Association in AmericaRichard Kimball 1595-1675Descendant Member and on the Board of Directors of the Felton Family AssociationLieutenant Nathaniel Felton 1615-1705Descendant Member and on the Board of Directors of Sons of the RevolutionCaptain Francis Felton 1726-1794Descendant Member of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, Edward Tivey 1835-1901Governor General of The Society of the Descendants of the Founding Fathers of New EnglandGovernor General of The Society of the Descendants of CharlemagneDescendant Knight of Hereditary Order of Knights Templar of BritanniaTo be known as: Sir Richard Herbert Tivey, KT.HKt.BSir William Marshal 1147 -1219Grand Master of The Society of Knights Templar DescendantsMember of the New Hampshire Historical SocietyMember of the Wolfeboro Historical Society
​
This smacks of an in-your-face _melior quam vos_ attitude. Maybe he is a decent guy, but I am wary of those who take what I consider undue pride in their ancestors. I know the "types" that these societies attract. I am more concerned with my accomplishments than I am in claiming someone else's, though I do enjoy learning about my ancestors.

Also, one may click on "Phamplets" from the homepage. The application seems threadbare, and though another section discusses submitting proof, I wonder how many are turned away. It all seems a bit more commercial than research-oriented.

Sorry for wandering off-topic.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Reldresal said:


> I'd never heard of the organization, but I would certainly qualify. Not my cup of tea. Especially so once I encountered the this information on the Governer-General of the organization (don't know whether to laugh or retch at the title) on the homepage:
> 
> Member of The International Society of the Descendants of CharlemagneDescendant of King Edward III & Descendant of the Knights of the GarterMember of the Society of Mayflower Descendants in the State of New HampshireCaptain Myles Standish 1584-1656, George Soule 1602-1680Francis Eaton 1600-1633 and Edward Doty 1598-1655Descendant Member of the National Society of Magna Charta BaronsSaire IV de Quincy 1155-1219Descendant Member of the Fairbanks Family in America, Jonathan Fairbanks 1590-1668Descendant Member of the Kimball Family Association in AmericaRichard Kimball 1595-1675Descendant Member and on the Board of Directors of the Felton Family AssociationLieutenant Nathaniel Felton 1615-1705Descendant Member and on the Board of Directors of Sons of the RevolutionCaptain Francis Felton 1726-1794Descendant Member of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, Edward Tivey 1835-1901Governor General of The Society of the Descendants of the Founding Fathers of New EnglandGovernor General of The Society of the Descendants of CharlemagneDescendant Knight of Hereditary Order of Knights Templar of BritanniaTo be known as: Sir Richard Herbert Tivey, KT.HKt.BSir William Marshal 1147 -1219Grand Master of The Society of Knights Templar DescendantsMember of the New Hampshire Historical SocietyMember of the Wolfeboro Historical Society
> ​
> ...


Agreed. I have about 100 years of Dartmouth professorship in my father's family, one of whom designed the two oldest standing building on the Dartmouth campus. Where's my prize?


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

If you really want to impress me, you need to belong to this organization.

https://www.flagonandtrencher.org/


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Has anyone tagged Muffy to keep track of her in the wild? I ask, because I could've sworn I saw her on the UES today having left J. McLaughlin.

The lack of a trailing photographer left me in doubt, however.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

I heard that the cover of Vampire Weekend's latest album is actually a photo of Muffy from 1983.










(this thread has seriously jumped the shark)


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

If that's true then I have even less respect. They got sued over using that picture.


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## Griswold (Mar 29, 2010)

Hayek said:


> I used to find her blog tremendously off-putting because it was painfully obvious that she was putting in an absolutely enormous amount of effort, money, and attention into effecting a natural, laid-back, _sprezzatura_ type of look. All this despite the fact that she seems to be a very legitimate New England blue blood. Why spend so much time on something that is--or should be--natural to you? It seemed a bit odd.
> 
> That yachting post with Kiel James Patrick is a perfect example of what I found so grating about her. It looks like a fun day. But come on, no one really _does this_. A little too happy and a little too staged. The group jump into the water at the end really jumped the shark.
> 
> ...


Muffy appears to be the world's foremost authority on Muffy. Why are Volvo wagons the acceptable car? She drives one. Why is Brown the preppiest college? Her husband is an alum. Etc.

One thing I have never seen her mention is her own alma mater. Maybe it was a public school. (shudder).


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Griswold said:


> Muffy appears to be the world's foremost authority on Muffy. Why are Volvo wagons the acceptable car? She drives one. Why is Brown the preppiest college? Her husband is an alum. Etc.
> 
> One thing I have never seen her mention is her own alma mater. Maybe it was a public school. (shudder).


One of my best friends at school went to Brown for undergrad. I hear there's a lot of naked time on campus, and I don't mean in dorm rooms. Is no clothes preppier than preppy clothes? Maybe so!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Tilton said:


> If that's true then I have even less respect. They got sued over using that picture.


I was trying to be ridiculous.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> One of my best friends at school went to Brown for undergrad. I hear there's a lot of naked time on campus, and I don't mean in dorm rooms. Is no clothes preppier than preppy clothes? Maybe so!


Up until recently (ten years ago, maybe?) Princeton used to host the Nude Olympics to celebrate the first snowfall of the season. It doesn't get any "Ivier" than that.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Hookem: a close friend went to Brown. I visited. Far too crunchy for me. Unless, of course, Birkenstocks, cargo shorts, dreadlocks, and a black AmEx is your scene... if that's the case, game on.

Hardline: I figured, but I also wouldn't be terribly surprised. I could see it.


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## Reldresal (Oct 13, 2011)

Brown the preppiest? If true, preppy culture is in trouble. I am a Brown grad, 1994, and it was not preppy then, and from the looks today it is still not.

There were some preppy kids then and I am sure there are now, but in no way could it be said they dominated or dominate. 

For all the rep of being a hippie school, it never seemed overly so to me when I was there, but that may have changed in this green, organic, hemp age where being a hippie simply means not caring how you look, but caring a great deal about lofting platitudes at the masses over facebook. 

The most interesting aspect of Brown vis a vis 1994 to 2012 to me was the recent report that over half of all incoming freshman intend to concentrate in the physical or life sciences. That is just unbelievable. That is a huge change, I think, from 20 years ago. I would not doubt that that percentage has doubled.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

I think Ivy League schools have largely, not completely, changed over the last thirty years, as they've taken in more foreign students and fewer legacy students. I was at Cornell in the early 1980s, and my impression is not unlike Redresal. Some few adherents to the preppie style, but much more fleece, jeans, running shoes. 

Despite the orientation of the AAAC/T crowd, what we now see commercially, the drying up of small, independent clothing shops, bastardization of classically Trad styles, is a reflection of the shrinking of the market for the authentic stuff. Sad, but true, but Press, O'Connells, B. Silver, CCC, and the other small bastions are servicing the Trad needs of an entire nation.


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## paulurfi (Mar 22, 2012)

Taken Aback said:


> Has anyone tagged Muffy to keep track of her in the wild?


LOL, just the metal image of someone tranqing and tagging Muffy (a la Steve Irwin) is just hilarious! "Crikey, mate! Look at the bloodline on that blue blood!"


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## Reldresal (Oct 13, 2011)

xcubbies said:


> I think Ivy League schools have largely, not completely, changed over the last thirty years, as they've taken in more foreign students and fewer legacy students. I was at Cornell in the early 1980s, and my impression is not unlike Redresal. Some few adherents to the preppie style, but much more fleece, jeans, running shoes.
> 
> Despite the orientation of the AAAC/T crowd, what we now see commercially, the drying up of small, independent clothing shops, bastardization of classically Trad styles, is a reflection of the shrinking of the market for the authentic stuff. Sad, but true, but Press, O'Connells, B. Silver, CCC, and the other small bastions are servicing the Trad needs of an entire nation.


I would agree with all of this. Early 90s, and early 80s were much different than early 60s.

Have you kept abreast of the acceptance rates? Brown is down below 10%. Penn, which used to take almost half of all applicants is around 12%. Harvard is taking less than 6%. When I was applying Harvard used to be in the high teens. Brown was 25%. I probably wouldn't make it in today, haha.

The applicant pool is staggering now and that is because the Ivies are affordable for more students now. 47% of the incoming Brown class will receive need-based financial aid. The average award is something like $37,000/yr. If a student can come up with about $25,000 more/yr., he is set. That brings it into range of many lower-income students.

I'm sure the trend was already well on its way to the new reality when I was going there. The Ivy student bodies are now poorer, made up of more minorities, and probably more "accomplished" than ever. The accomplished part is actually a little disturbing to me, but that is a topic unto itself. 47% of the incoming class of 2016 graduated 1st or 2nd in their classes.

A quick glance at the photograph accompanying this article will anecdotally support the arguments above. Find me a prep:

https://news.brown.edu/pressreleases/2012/03/2016


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

^^ Looking at those numbers reminds me why I went to state undergrad (it was free!). :crazy:


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## Reldresal (Oct 13, 2011)

hookem12387 said:


> ^^ Looking at those numbers reminds me why I went to state undergrad (it was free!). :crazy:


Math or business guy? I was a humanities guy: classical studies and philosophy. We don't understand costs and returns on investment.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Reldresal said:


> Math or business guy? I was a humanities guy: classical studies and philosophy. We don't understand costs and returns on investment.


English lit/Indo-Asian philosophical lit. What are these "costs," "investments," and "returns" of which you speak? I hear those words a lot on NPR.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Reldresal said:


> Math or business guy? I was a humanities guy: classical studies and philosophy. We don't understand costs and returns on investment.


Double in Philosophy and Government. My parents helped the decision, "Go to free undergrad, and we'll pay for most of your law school." Note: I have amazing parents. I'd be sorry to derail the thread, but I'm not even sure what it's about any longer.


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

Muffytracking, that's what.


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## Reldresal (Oct 13, 2011)

Not a zoologist in sight, but we appear to be rife with philosophers.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Reldresal said:


> Not a zoologist in sight, but we appear to be rife with philosophers.


I prefer for my muckraking to not actually involve any physical raking or muck.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Since this thread seems to be finding its own way, I will mention that I was thinking about it over the last two days, when I drove a ranch truck from north of Laramie across Wyoming to Riverton, a town inside of the Wind River Reservation. Nary a polo nor a topsider in sight. I dressed appropriately; ropers, experienced jeans, a snap front shirt from the farm store and a ball hat from the Laramie Rifle Range. I don't know what Muffin thinks "authenticity" is, but the reservation seems pretty authentic to me. She may live in the same country, but not in the same world.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

godan said:


> She may live in the same country, but not in the same world.


That's a bit harsh considering her blog is very New-England-centric. I don't think she's ever made the claim of having any kind of national authenticity monopoly.

Being from the North East, I never truly understood the appeal of western-style boots, but I don't doubt their appropriateness in the environment and culture you described, nor do I take offense that you aren't wearing Bean boots and a Barbour jacket.

I'm not sure why this thread has turned into a Muffy bash-fest, but there are members of the forum who know her and her family and have attested to the fact that she is as genuine as can be. People actually do live the way she describes in New England, apparently.

The internet can have a way of masking scale, but her blog is just a snapshot of the way that a microscopic subset of the population in a small and very specific part of the country lives. It makes no sense to feel threatened by it if your life doesn't match hers.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Hardline: What you correctly call a microscopic subset is not threatening, but is is an example of taking things too far. Muffin and those like her are no doubt familar with Jane Austin and may recognize this sentence from _Northanger Abbey, _"Dress is at all times a frivolous distinction, and excessive solicitude about it often destroys its own aim." People in my region of the country have equally silly blogs about horses, firearms, etc. What is missing throughout is balance - - a concept I believe has some relationship to pleasing attire.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

godan said:


> Hardline: What you correctly call a microscopic subset is not threatening, but is is an example of taking things too far. Muffin and those like her are no doubt familar with Jane Austin and may recognize this sentence from _Northanger Abbey, _"Dress is at all times a frivolous distinction, and excessive solicitude about it often destroys its own aim." People in my region of the country have equally silly blogs about horses, firearms, etc. What is missing throughout is balance - - a concept I believe has some relationship to pleasing attire.


Very well put, godan. I think the very nature of what you describe is easily illustrated in this very forum. There are members in other threads getting huffy over the spending habits of others, rants an accusations of superiority and snobbery and the incessant establishment of "rules" that shall not be broken. In the end it's just clothes, and when we step away from the computer, we (hopefully) give attention to the other, more important aspects of our lives that online acquaintances will never see. It's in those things that the balance is achieved, of course.

The problem with blogs about "stuff" is that the authors opinions with regards to the "stuff" become the sole grounds on which we judge them, which I think is unfair. Especially when the environment that helped shape those opinions is one alien to us.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Let's not throw the first stone. We're hanging out in a clothes forum. 

To many, many others (and perhaps even me) there's a very thin difference between Muffy and the preppy guys and the AAAC crowd. I hesitate to judge other people's authenticity. Mostly because I don't find it a measurable (quantifiable?) quality nor necessarily a good one. 

Perhaps I'm just feeling contrary. But I quite like her blog, she seems genuinely interested and takes good pictures. I don't care if she attended a real ivy/prep school. 

I've met loads (well maybe not loads but more than a few) people who did attend ivy and who most probably did not become more interesting because of it.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Hardline: Thank you for the thoughtful and perceptive reply - and for not pointing out that I spelled Jane's last name incorrectly (with her collected works on the table next to the computer.)


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

I've looked at Muffy's blog and I can not see what all of the controversy is about. She is a middle aged prepette who is reporting on life in her small part of the world. No different than say a 20 something goth reporting on their subculture, or a cowboy blogging about life on the farm. Each represents a subset of life in our country and as long she (or anyone else) does not publish anything actionable or truly offensive, then leave them be. For the record I think she is kind of cute and feel she would probably be an interesting dinner companion.

Best,

Ross


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Much sense being made in the last several posts. Refreshing.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
...and a big Amen to that observation. Thank you all, godan, hardline 42, Bjorn and Trip English! 

However, I'm still crossing hardline 42 off my 'good list', for not understanding the western boots. There is just no excuse for that!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

eagle2250 said:


> However, I'm still crossing hardline 42 off my 'good list', for not understanding the western boots. There is just no excuse for that!


Haha! Well, in the interest of full disclosure, there is a surprisingly large and deeply entrenched cowboy culture, mainly in south western NJ, but extending all the way up to the center and maybe further up along the banks of the Delaware. As a kid, I would attend a yearly rodeo (along with half the county) right outside Princeton with my friends. When my best friend (now brother-in-law) started dating a girl from Kalamazoo (now his wife) we dabbled in western wear. The hat, jeans, annoying belt buckle etc. But the farthest I could go with footwear was harness boots. The combination of Cuban heel AND a pointy toe was just too out there for me. It had to be one or the other. To this day I can't even imagine myself wearing a pair of exotic skinned dress boots or anything like that. Maybe there should be a "Western Trads: Show us your boots!" thread to help me out.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

hardline_42 said:


> Haha! Well, in the interest of full disclosure, there is a surprisingly large and deeply entrenched cowboy culture, mainly in south western NJ, but extending all the way up to the center and maybe further up along the banks of the Delaware. As a kid, I would attend a yearly rodeo (along with half the county) right outside Princeton with my friends. When my best friend (now brother-in-law) started dating a girl from Kalamazoo (now his wife) we dabbled in western wear. The hat, jeans, annoying belt buckle etc. But the farthest I could go with footwear was harness boots. The combination of Cuban heel AND a pointy toe was just too out there for me. It had to be one or the other. To this day I can't even imagine myself wearing a pair of exotic skinned dress boots or anything like that. Maybe there should be a "Western Trads: Show us your boots!" thread to help me out.


It will be full of no-quill ostrich roper boots. Here in VA, it's pretty common to see boots and suits, especially around Cap Square in Richmond. It's sort of half-joke that the uniform of VA lobbyists is a suit, nice boots, and a can of snuff. All sartorial pillars aside, I do it. It is a hilarous attempt to pander to your audience, but hey... street cred it street cred. A lot of legislators and aides from the more rural/culturally southern areas of the state feel more comfortable when you're dressed in boots. It sends the message that you're down to earth etc. I had a particularly well-known rural VA delegate refer to my Gucci's as "prissy boy shoes" and I never made that mistake again.

Plus they're comfy, especially when it's cold out.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

A few thoughts:

1 - Very impressed with the reasonable costs at the ElizaB site. I think I may be designing and ordering a ribbon belt in the near future.

2 - I would argue that the tradliest/preppiest colleges are no longer the Ivy League, but rather small private institutions in the Midwest and South such as my Alma Mater of Hillsdale College in Michigan or Hampden-Sydney in Viriginia (one of my cousins is an alum). However, much like Muffy I can only base this on my own experience.

3 - Being from Arizona I am quite familiar with cowboy boots, but I've never seen anyone wearing them when I visit the East Coast and even in Arizona I wouldn't call them trad.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

hardline_42 said:


> I heard that the cover of Vampire Weekend's latest album is actually a photo of Muffy from 1983.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd hit that!!

1983 was one of the best years ever!!


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I'd hit that!!
> 
> 1983 was one of the best years ever!!


Sure thing. Here you go:










Not too bad for 54. And she rocks the heck out of that turtleneck and cable knit.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Still hiding them hickys.

Most excellent!!


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## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

I hope you all have drool-proof keyboards.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

I doubt Muffy's bonafides. She is eatting steamer clams with drawn butter. They should only be eatten with broth from the water in which they have been steamed.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

xcubbies said:


> I doubt Muffy's bonafides. She is eatting steamer clams with drawn butter. They should only be eatten with broth from the water in which they have been steamed.


That's what's in the other dipping container, isn't it?


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

What is a "Muffy"?


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