# Central Watch grograin bands



## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

*Central Watch grosgrain bands*

It looks like they have replenished the supply and certain bands are no longer out of stock:

Unfortunately, this won't allow me to edit the thread heading. It should be "grosgrain," not "grograin."


----------



## zignatius (Oct 8, 2004)

wow. those are nice enough to want to wear a watch.


----------



## knickerbacker (Jun 27, 2005)

Yep, I just ordered 5 last week. We'll see which ones show up.


----------



## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

I have really enjoyed my CW straps. I got my first 5 this summer and look to order 5 more for fall/winter. Very comfortable and fun to wear.


----------



## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Damn. I just ordered a few days ago and wanted a few of those sold out. Oh well. I guess I'll just need to place another order...

How many is too many watch bands? I seem to recall Harris saying at one point he had over one hundred...

JB


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

I own way too many. More than any one person needs. Oh well.


----------



## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Harris said:


> I own way too many. More than any one person needs. Oh well.


Can one have too many, Harris?

JB


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Come to think of it, maybe not. Good point.


----------



## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

*watch bands*

Harris-
For your information, please look at the Bobby Jones fall catalogue page 7 in regard to watch bands. I would appreciate your comments.
Mcarthur


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

mcarthur, I'm afraid I don't have access to a hard copy of a catalog, and page 7 of the online fall '06 catalog features shoes. Can you post a photo or website page? Thanks.


----------



## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Actually, here's a question for you Harris, I've been wondering as all these "seasonality" threads have started up. I presume you wear the bands through winter. Do you shelve certain colors or color combinations? Or do you allow the bands to be the splash of color in a winter outfit? Do you limit your fall and winter bands to maroons, navies, khakis, etc?

Thanks
JB


----------



## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Joe Bondi said:


> Actually, here's a question for you Harris, I've been wondering as all these "seasonality" threads have started up. I presume you wear the bands through winter. Do you shelve certain colors or color combinations? Or do you allow the bands to be the splash of color in a winter outfit? Do you limit your fall and winter bands to maroons, navies, khakis, etc?
> 
> Thanks
> JB


What watchband with a pink shetland?


----------



## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

Now if they would only use decent buckles...


----------



## Plainsman (Jun 29, 2006)

Cantabrigian said:


> Now if they would only use decent buckles...


I agree, their buckles are cheap. Most come with gold as well and I prefer a silver watch.


----------



## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

I've taken to just ignoring this little problem.

Now, if we could find the supplier of the buckle and buy a gross of silver ones, that'd be great!

JB


----------



## Plainsman (Jun 29, 2006)

Joe Bondi said:


> I've taken to just ignoring this little problem.
> 
> Now, if we could find the supplier of the buckle and buy a gross of silver ones, that'd be great!
> 
> JB


I have emailed them twice and said I would buy a box full of silver buckles if they have them. I was ignored both times.

You get the petition going and I'll join in.


----------



## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Plainsman said:


> I have emailed them twice and said I would buy a box full of silver buckles if they have them. I was ignored both times.
> 
> You get the petition going and I'll join in.


You know who we need to sick on this issue...one David Pihl. That dude will give us a 13 page history of the watch band buckle, the two providers in the world that make them, pictures of the 25 different buckles they make, an order form, and a story about when he was a child, he used to collect watch band buckles.

David, you know I love you, brother. Any chance you've done some research on this? David? Calling David...

JB


----------



## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Joe Bondi said:


> You know who we need to sick on this issue...one David Pihl. That dude will give us a 13 page history of the watch band buckle, the two providers in the world that make them, pictures of the 25 different buckles they make, an order form, and a story about when he was a child, he used to collect watch band buckles.
> 
> David, you know I love you, brother. Any chance you've done some research on this? David? Calling David...
> 
> JB


<grins>

A


----------



## fenway (May 2, 2006)

They need better colors (or the same colors as 18mm) in the 20mm size.

Anyone have a good source for 20mm grosgrains?


----------



## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

fenway said:


> They need better colors (or the same colors as 18mm) in the 20mm size.
> 
> Anyone have a good source for 20mm grosgrains?


Not nearly as many colors  but much, much better buckles, though something of a more martial feel (which can be mitigated by buying the RAF style rather than the NATO style)-

broadarrow.net - check out the Zulu straps. I have the red (they call it burgundy but it's pretty bright) and the orange.

You can also google 'Speedbird NATO strap' and you can find some in that stripe.

For 20mm I'll only buy Zulus until Central Watch or someone - anyone - is able to offer a decent grosgrain strap in 20mm.

:idea: Harris, you don't by any chance happen to be looking for a second career...


----------



## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Where can I find grosgrain in less than 18mm?

I have some old BB in 15mm that I'll need to replace soon.


----------



## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Joe Bondi said:


> Actually, here's a question for you Harris, I've been wondering as all these "seasonality" threads have started up. I presume you wear the bands through winter. Do you shelve certain colors or color combinations? Or do you allow the bands to be the splash of color in a winter outfit? Do you limit your fall and winter bands to maroons, navies, khakis, etc?
> 
> Thanks
> JB


I can't speak for Harris, but I do not think there is a seasonality when it comes to watch bands.


----------



## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> I can't speak for Harris, but I do not think there is a seasonality when it comes to watch bands.


Thanks LAX.

JB


----------



## a.dickens (May 10, 2006)

Good luck acquiring silver buckles. I had an issue with them this summer about grosgrains and gold buckles. They said that they are not in control of the color of the buckles and that they just send them out as they receive them from their distributor. They do not have silver buckles to send out. They made it possible for me to exchange the bands I had for another one with a silver buckle. Thats what they will do. And thats it.


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Nope*



Joe Bondi said:


> You know who we need to sick on this issue...one David Pihl. That dude will give us a 13 page history of the watch band buckle, the two providers in the world that make them, pictures of the 25 different buckles they make, an order form, and a story about when he was a child, he used to collect watch band buckles.
> 
> David, you know I love you, brother. Any chance you've done some research on this? David? Calling David...
> 
> JB


Date:Sat, 8 Oct 2005 16:26:25 -0400
From:[email protected]
To:dpihl (at) yahoo (dot) com
Subject:Re: INFO REQUEST - GENERAL

Dear Mr. Pihl,

Thank you for your inquiry. We definitely appreciate the difficulty you have experienced locating these particular straps. It is next to impossible to find them on a wholesale or retail basis. We were even featured in the New York Times as one of the only places still carrying them! We also would like to get our hands on some of those buckles, but our manufacturers are not willing to provide us with empty buckles for our own use or for resale. I wish we could be of more assistance. Best of luck in your search and please let us know if anything turns up!

Sincerely,
Laura Kivel

https://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/dpihl/Buckle.gif


----------



## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

I knew you were on it, Pihl.

Now...if we could only figure out whom their distributor is....

JB


----------



## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

Harris said:


> mcarthur, I'm afraid I don't have access to a hard copy of a catalog, and page 7 of the online fall '06 catalog features shoes. Can you post a photo or website page? Thanks.


Page 7 from the "Fashion" Fall 2006 catalog -

Ugh.


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

I like a few of the straps shown here:


----------



## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

*watch bands*



Tucker said:


> Page 7 from the "Fashion" Fall 2006 catalog -
> 
> Ugh.


Tucker-
Thank you for your posting of the pictures and your comments on these watch bands.
Mcarthur


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

I can't say I'm terribly enthusiastic about the Bobby Jones straps. Still, if you're a golfer, they're appropriate.


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*At last!*

Two years ago, I found a company that sold nylon watch straps wholesale. Most importantly, these straps were the RAF style (like Central Watchband), and were available wholesale to watchmakers and repair shops in the UK. I've been searching and searching for the link, and had no luck whatsoever. I even bookmarked the link and emailed it to myself, but no luck.

I volunteer at a small Genealogy Library in town here (not the big one downtown that people make pilgrimages to), and was using an older computer at the time of my discovery.

All the computers were replaced last summer, but I fired up the old machine today to search the favorites/bookmark files, the cache files, etc.

When this didn't work, I tried searching for watch repair suppliers in the UK
using various serach engines.

found the name of the supplier in question, but the link took
me to a menu of gay porn sites, etc.

This explains why all other attempts have failed. The old site is down.

This has all the earmarks of a web scam. The sort of thing where your web developer registers your URL in your company name, keeps the URL, and then demands exorbitant amounts of money from you. If you don't pay, he turns your web site into a porn site. If your web developer doesn't do this to you, then a squatter might do it when you forget to renew and your URL lapses.

Whatever the reason, the old site was gone.

A google search for the company name yielded the intended result.

At long last, I give you the .

If you don't need twelve black grossgrain bands, you can at least reuse the buckles for other straps where the gilt has begun to corrode.

Perhaps A. G. Thomas could sell us the buckles or help us locate the manufacturer?

P.S. Here are some other interesting links.

https://ahh.biz/catagories/webbing_straps.htm

https://www.leatherwatchstraps.co.uk/


----------



## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

knickerbacker said:


> Yep, I just ordered 5 last week. We'll see which ones show up.


So Mr. Burns,

Did they show? I need to order a batch soon myself.


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi all, I'm new to this forum but have been reading a few posts with interest about your discussion of 'Grosgrain' watch straps. Coming from the UK I am more familiar with the term NATO/G10 that would seem to be a more familiar term for describing the type of nylon strap which you are all interested in. Is it purely the nylon strap and the various styles and sizes that you find of interest, or the steel buckles or maybe both?

Cheers, 
Mike


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Welcome.*



MRodgers said:


> Hi all, I'm new to this forum but have been reading a few posts with interest about your discussion of 'Grosgrain' watch straps. Coming from the UK I am more familiar with the term NATO/G10 that would seem to be a more familiar term for describing the type of nylon strap which you are all interested in. Is it purely the nylon strap and the various styles and sizes that you find of interest, or the steel buckles or maybe both?
> 
> Cheers,
> Mike


Hi Mike!

Interest is first and foremost in the nylon strap itself.

Many of us prefer the RAF style to the G10 style, but some have experimented with both.

Many of us collect them, and match them to neckties or other parts of our outfits. After all, this _is_ a fashion forum.

Our interest in the buckles has to do with the scarcity of watch straps in the past two decades. Only one retailer in America seems to survive-- Central Watchband stand.

A few menswear stores have picked up on this fact, and begun selling what few colours they can find. Central remains the primary source however.

If we had a source for the buckles, we could resurrect a few old favorites from the days when Trafalgar offered these watch straps to American retailers. These oldies often have ducks, whales, sailing ships, etc. woven into the webbing.

If we had a source for the buckles, we could buy grosgrain ribbon from the fabric store, and make new watch bands in any colour that caught our eye. I've done this before simply by borrowing buckles from old watch straps. It's not as good as the heavy nylon used by the manufacturer of the straps, but can sometimes beat the alternative (no watch strap available in the colour or pattern desired).

I often wear one that I made from a tartan ribbon that Grey Block once manufactured (before they left the business).

If we had a source for the buckles, we could choose whether to use a gilt or a nickel finish buckle, depending on the metal of our watch.

This last point is an important one. Some of us never read the Official Preppy Handbook in 1980, and don't have old nylon watch straps from those days. Some of us don't want to mess with buying ribbon from the fabric store. Yet even the newest member of the Trad forum might want to choose the type of finish on the metal in their watch straps.

Here is an important thing for you to consider.

The Preppy Revival that hit America a few years ago brought on a slew of so-called "Ribbon Watches", especially for women.

Every stinking one of these neo-preppy (prepette) ribbon watch bands is 18mm wide, and comes with a D-ring closure.

D-rings, mind you! Those awful things that never stay in place for more than ten minutes.

Following the ribbon watch fad came the scarf watch, a strictly female phenomenon.

Blech!

Here is the piece I wrote about this whole fad:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=56326

Hope this information helps, and thanks for taking the time to log on and speak up!


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Ah, yes. I remember now.*



MRodgers said:


> Hi all, I'm new to this forum but have been reading a few posts with interest about your discussion of 'Grosgrain' watch straps. Coming from the UK I am more familiar with the term NATO/G10 that would seem to be a more familiar term for describing the type of nylon strap which you are all interested in. Is it purely the nylon strap and the various styles and sizes that you find of interest, or the steel buckles or maybe both?
> 
> Cheers,
> Mike


Mike, I thought I had taken the time a while ago to list the major Grosgrain Watchband threads on this forum. Just now found a link to that thread:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=54809

Also, the following photo (taken without permission from this thread) demonstrates why we like the R.A.F. style instead of the (NATO/G10 style) so much.

Notice that these straps are adjusted to just the right length for the wearer here. I wear mine longer, because I have fat wrists. This RAF style can be adjusted to fit an infant or even a Teddy Bear's wrist.

D-rings are adjustable, but don't stay in place. The G10 style doesn't put the buckle in the center of your wrist (directly opposite the watch itself).

Many of us prefer this style over all others.


----------



## knickerbacker (Jun 27, 2005)

What a nice note from Ms. Kivel. I received my watchbands the other day and they are wonderful. All the colors I ordered arrived along with a business card from Lev Kivel, an owner, which had a map of where their shop is (pedestrian tunnel to Grand Central in NYC). I've posted comments from time to time about how some items I buy are but a pale comparison to items that they replaced and I'm happy to say that in the 26 years since I last had a grosgrain band, these seem to be exactly as I recall from my youth. Besides, even in corrected 1980 dollars, they're probably exactly the same price as the ones I bought then. The buckles are also the same as they were then. I do remember having a few as a kid where the holes in the watchband had tiny (gold colored- matched the buckle) grommets to prevent auguring out over time- those were the choicest of the bunch back then. Thanks gents.


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi dphil I've read your response and followed through a few of the links looking at the grossgrain, the RAF style that you refer to with D-ring buckles where you can easily shorten the strap if necessary and also the G10s that I was referring to that originally came in only Grey, manufactured by the MoD.

I have seen the d-ring style in a couple of places but have never really looked at it in much detail, does it have the same nylon weave as a MoD G10 strap or is the nylon material more flimsy / thinner for want of better words? I'm aware that the construction of MoD spec G10 straps calls for the nylon to be heat welded when securing the buckle into place although I have also seen them tightly stitched. I take it that the d-ring RAF style you refer to just has the nylon feed into the buckle with no stitching involved?

The RAF d-ring indeed has similarities with the MoD grey original specification strap. Manufacturers have produced a navy RAF style, a camoflague style strap as well as khaki, black and James Bond pattern as per the one seen on the film. Therefore both can be classed as fashion accessories as you have mentioned.

I'm just about getting used to the slight difference in terminology for how I describe the style of strap i.e. RAF NATO/G10 where as for yourselves, there is the RAF style and the NATO/G10.

Thanks
Michael


----------



## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

knickerbacker said:


> What a nice note from Ms. Kivel. I received my watchbands the other day and they are wonderful. All the colors I ordered arrived along with a business card from Lev Kivel, an owner, which had a map of where their shop is (pedestrian tunnel to Grand Central in NYC). I've posted comments from time to time about how some items I buy are but a pale comparison to items that they replaced and I'm happy to say that in the 26 years since I last had a grosgrain band, these seem to be exactly as I recall from my youth. Besides, even in corrected 1980 dollars, they're probably exactly the same price as the ones I bought then. The buckles are also the same as they were then. I do remember having a few as a kid where the holes in the watchband had tiny (gold colored matched the buckle) grommets to prevent auguring out over time- those were the choicest of the bunch back then. Thanks gents.


Central Watch is in GCT. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT! Well hell, I will zip over there instead of ordering online.


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Don't forget the 5/8" (16mm) bands offered by O' Connell's, Griffin & Cooke, and other sources. It may be that many prefer them, as they feature grommets, a non-adjustable buckle, and a layer of lining in between the grosgrain ribbons that results in a more substantial feel. They would look silly on anything larger than a 34mm (diameter) watch and probably best for a 31-33mm, but nonetheless...


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Clarification*



MRodgers said:


> Hi dphil I've read your response and followed through a few of the links looking at the grossgrain, the RAF style that you refer to with D-ring buckles where you can easily shorten the strap if necessary and also the G10s that I was referring to that originally came in only Grey, manufactured by the MoD.
> 
> I have seen the d-ring style in a couple of places but have never really looked at it in much detail, does it have the same nylon weave as a MoD G10 strap or is the nylon material more flimsy / thinner for want of better words? I'm aware that the construction of MoD spec G10 straps calls for the nylon to be heat welded when securing the buckle into place although I have also seen them tightly stitched. I take it that the d-ring RAF style you refer to just has the nylon feed into the buckle with no stitching involved?
> 
> ...


Michael, thanks for your post. You're right, we really do need to clarify a few things, so we are speaking the same terminology.

First of all, the RAF watchband is not a D Ring watchband. You seem to have intertwined these two styles in your mind.

Most people around here call it the CWB band, for Central Watchband Stand, as they are the primary source in the US for this style. I took to calling it the RAF style in this thread because you are from the UK. I read somewhere, was that the Royal Air Force used this style at one point, and that they were the original branch of any military to specify this style.

Call it the CWB style, call it the RAF style, call it what you will. Whatever you want to call it, it's a single strap of ribbon with a triple bar buckle. Here again is the link to a diagram I created a few years back.
https://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/dpihl/Buckle.gif

That triple bar buckle is harder to find than hen's teeth.

My understanding, is that the rest of the British military moved on from the triple bar buckled style into a nylon watch strap with a series of metal loops, and a buckle that is heat welded and then sewn into place. This style is what I've heard called the G10, and also the James Bond style. Whatever you call it, it is less desirable than the older style, as you can't easily hide the excess nylon, and achieve the custom look that the older style achieves effortlessly.

Granted, the military is not as concerned about fashion as function, and as such the G10 is probably a superior band all around.

D-ring watchbands,are a separate category altogether.

These are made from bits of flimsy, store bought grosgrain ribbon. There are often two pieces of ribbon stitched together along the sides to form a tube. This tube is turned inside out, and then sewn shut along the edges. One edge is then looped through the straight part of two D Rings. D-rings are so named because they are shaped like the capital letter "D" instead of more commonplace "O" shaped rings. After looping this end through the brass d-rings, the ribbon is tack stitched to itself, securing the D-rings into place.

Scarf watches are irrelevant here, and I'm not sure why I even brought them up other than to take note of the fact that they exist. I've yet to find one that isn't hideous.

Now then; you asked about the flimsiness compared to the G10 nylon strap.

Most of the "imitation" G10s out there are similar in weight and feel. I'm told that a ture MoD G10 is heavier still. You may have heard that several regiments have had watch straps made up in the stripes or colours of their particular regiment. That's the sort of thing we are looking for here. In as many variations as possible, and as many colours as possible.

A small number of retailers, O'Connel's in particular have sought to fill the void by creating watch straps that are sort of in between the CWB/ RAF style and the D-ring band. Perhaps you saw these, and this is what had you confused.

The O'Connel's plaid bands have two strips of ribbon which are serged together along the outside edges. No tubes turned inside out, just a heavy stitch along the outside. These have regular buckles sewn onto one end, and holes along the other end. Mini gromets are crimped into place along the holes side, to prevent fraying.

For some of us, this is a happy compromise, but I have become spoiled.

I will not settle for these bands, as I would rather wear a CWB band in Navy or Black than wear a watch strap that doesn't offer a custom fit.


----------



## Tucker (Apr 17, 2006)

dpihl said:


> My understanding, is that the rest of the British military moved on from the D-ring style into a nylon watch strap with a series of metal loops, and a buckle that is sewn into place. This style is what I've heard called the G10, and also the James Bond style. Whatever you call it, it is less desirable than the older style, as you can't easily hide the excess nylon, and achieve the custom look that the older style achieves effortlessly.
> 
> Granted, the military is not as concerned about fashion as function, and as
> such the G10 is probably a superior band all around.
> ...


The MoD strap is designed to be worn over a flight suit, wetsuit or jacket. When worn on a bare wrist the excess length is gathered by the extra loops. I like the look, but only wear them with my sport watches (e.g., Omega Speedmaster) and would never consider wearing a dress watch on a G10. The "James Bond" reference is to the gray/black stripe version seen in Dr. No and Goldfinger (although that strap was a simple nylon strap and not a G10 strap).

The regimental stripe G10 straps can be purchased from Howard Marx at Westcoastime.


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Ouch!*



Harris said:


> Don't forget the 5/8" (16mm) bands offered by O' Connell's, Griffin & Cooke, and other sources. It may be that many prefer them, as they feature grommets, a non-adjustable buckle, and a layer of lining in between the grosgrain ribbons that results in a more substantial feel. They would look silly on anything larger than a 34mm (diameter) watch and probably best for a 31-33mm, but nonetheless...


Harris, it has somehow always escaped me that you prefer this style.

I've noticed tiny grommets and setters at scrap booking supply stores, and even Wal Mart in the crafts section. Tandy and the Leather Factory don't sell grommets that small.

If you want grommets, they ought to be easy to add to any strap in your collection. Also, there are plenty of sources for traditional watchband buckles, and these straps should be easy to make.

I hope I haven't said anything too disparraging about them. They are not my thing but I have no axe to grind. I especially don't want to offend you, who are the champion of the ribbon band (and many other Trad staples).

I have difficulty fitting the grommets under the S-ring bar (springbar), and anything narrower than 18mm looks kinda girly on me. Addmittedly my wrists are on the large side.


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi again dpihl I think I am begnning to understand the disctinction between the two straps now.

My interpretation would be that there is the CWB band which is the single piece strap with a triple bar buckle as per your image link to https://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i198/dpihl/Buckle.gif. Then there is the NATO/G10 strap which has a standard buckle and a three loopholes which has been brought about by the MoD as per Tuckers information.

I am not exactly certain about the origins of the NATO/G10 strap but yes your right in saying that the nylon strap has a buckle which I do believe according to MoD spec should be heat welded on, although it is quite common to find the buckle stitched instead. Indeed also from the my prior knowledge grey in 20mm was the standard but since then camoflague, khaki, RAF navy blue and more recently the James bond 5 stripe strap (black and grey stripes) has been brought onto the market , all in exactly the same style one piece , 3 loops and an extra piece of nylon.

Tuckers reference to the history of the MoD straps would also seem to be a true relection from my knowledge of the area.

Indeed over here in the UK, may people are known to have 5/6/7 of these military straps for all occasions, one for everyday of the week maybe therfore treating them like a fashion accessory mixing and matching with their watches.

I am also aware that there are various different regiments in the UK which all have their own colours and quite a few also have their supply of NATO straps to match. Over here in the UK though the tendancy does seem to lean towards the NATO standard buckle three loop hole nylon strap and are commonly sold. The difference being the quality of the material, finish and joints.

Michael


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Yessss*



MRodgers said:


> Hi again dpihl I think I am begnning to understand the disctinction between the two straps now.


Indeed we seem to be singing from the same page.

I'm happy with whatever shorthand you choose to use from here on out, but perhaps CWB and NATO would be easiest to type.

Harris, what would you call the O'Connel's style?


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

I (simply) call it a "grosgrain ribbon watchband." O' Connell's is selling what I remember buying at Brooks, The Andover Shop, and Eljo's since I can't remember when.


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Indeed dpihl that seems a good way to distinguish between the two. So what is it that your actually after several different colours / styles of the CWB type strap with the tripe bar buckle in general or UK based sources of these straps. Or the buckles as well as the straps? What about the NATO type?

Michael


----------



## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

David,

Since you have researched this issue so thoroughly, I wonder if I might ask a question.

Since I have a couple of the buckles that you diagramed which are on old straps purchased at BB and Press, have you found a good source for the nylon or other ribbon from which replacement straps could be cut and soldered?

I have tried some craft stores around my home, but they do not have anything of the correct thickness that could work without sewing and adding backing. I know that Harris has posted many sources for ribbon, but my straps seem to be of a medium weight nylon or other blend. I am hoping not to have to sew anything, but rather to burn the holes and the edges.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Tom


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Band of Brothers (aka "Brothers of the Band")*



MRodgers said:


> Indeed dpihl that seems a good way to distinguish between the two. So what is it that your actually after several different colours / styles of the CWB type strap with the tripe bar buckle in general or UK based sources of these straps. Or the buckles as well as the straps? What about the NATO type?
> 
> Michael


I think it's safe to say that as a group we are interested in all of the above.

The buckles are merely the latest bugaboo, as you simply cannot buy them anywhere.

Once again, I see this as three separate problems which various people may face: Wishing for silver instead of gilt (or vice versa), Wishing to replace old buckles that are tarnished and bent out of shape, and Wishing to create a makeshift watch strap out of fabric bought locally.

It's safe to say that most of us would rather buy the whole watch band if one is available in the colours and style we are looking for. Most of us don't have a collection the size of Harris's, but we all aspire to own a large-ish number of them.

My fabric store ribbon bands are not nearly as stylish as the others, but nobody ever notices the difference.

All I did, was take some fabric or craft store ribbon, and cut it at twice the desired lenght. I then folded it in half, and placed some heat activated glue in the center. I think it was called "Stitch Witchery" or some such. Fabric stores sell it as an interfacing.

I ironed the band until the glue strip took hold, and then used a soldering pencil to create a few holes. If I were using fabric instead of nylon or polyester grosgrain, I suppose I would have to buy a bottle of fray check to apply to the holes before crimping the grommets into place. I don't know if the hole cutters from Tandy would be small enough, so I'm not sure how to cut the holes in fabric.

As others have mentioned, some kind of stiff interfacing might be desired with the fabric straps. Buckram might work, but it's awfully stiff. Think I'd take a hint from old "One Eyed Bill", and cut a piece of plastic from an old clorox bottle.

As for soldering the buckle into place, the triple bar buckle obviates the need for anything like that. You merely thread the finished watch band into place.

You can see this would not require special tools or skills. A household iron, and maybe a soldering pencil from your tool box.

You can also see why I'd rather wear a real watch strap instead of going to this trouble for a wannabe watch strap.

But hey, what else are you gonna do? Wear a band in the wrong colour?


----------



## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

David,

Thank you. A very thorough and responsive post as always. 

Just to clarify, when I referenced "soldering", I was referring to using a small soldering iron/pen to cut the holes (just like you suggested), not soldering the buckle. For others who might be following this thread, another method people on the military watch forums use is to heat a nail with a lighter or flame and then use it to melt the holes in the strap.

I had not thought of adding some stitch witchery in order to use two sides of ribbon. Good idea.

One more thing I will offer...in the olden days, I had some of the fancier straps with a thin lining and grommets. Perhaps I wear my watch too tight or put too much pressure on the strap because I thought the grommets were more of a nuisance. Mine seemed to pull the fabric, rather than anchor it. I prefer straps without the grommets. Just my two cents.

Tom


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi again dpihl and the other participating members. From the extensive list of links/ interesting links have you had much success from any of them, whether it be finding the 3 bar buckle's the NATO type straps or the CWB styles that you require?


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

MRodgers said:


> Hi again dpihl and the other participating members. From the extensive list of links/ interesting links have you had much success from any of them, whether it be finding the 3 bar buckle's the NATO type straps or the CWB styles that you require?


Hi Mr. Rodgers.

I sent out a dozen or so emails the day I found and posted those links. You replied on the day of my posting, and I am secretly hoping that you are involved with one of those companies.

A few have responded to my personal inbox, and I'm waiting to hear from
others. If my hunch is correct, and you are among those manufacturers, I am especially impressed that you signed up and logged on.

Impressed, and grateful too.

Any company that understands the importance of the AAAC Forum wins my vote any time.

Around here, Brooks Brothers and J. Press have shown themselves to be true friends of the AAAT (Ask Andy About Trad) Forum.

Occasionally they solicit our opinions, and notify us of other items of interest (always within the rules of the forum).

Not only does this behavior cement our loyalty to those firms in particular, it probably leads to new clients as well.



Tom Buchanan said:


> David,
> 
> Thank you. A very thorough and responsive post as always.
> 
> ...


My soldering pencil's point is too broad, and I'll have to try the heated nail idea right away. Thanks for mentioning it!

As for the grommets, I agree with you. With no disrespect intended for Harris or Mr. Burns (Knickerbacker), they're just not my "thang".

I too have had them fight the fabric, and as mentioned, I also have trouble inserting the bands with grommets into the small aperture beneath the spring bar. All too often the grommets win, and the bar springs off into the night.

BTW: I just got off the phone with my favorite jeweler. She tells me it's a simple thing to replace the s-ring bar (springbar) with something more permanent. A simple solder joint would do it, but she had a few ideas that sounded like they would solve multiple problems at once.

For instance, a square bar would be harder to use in terms of inserting the watchstrap, but would be less likely to slide around on the strap as you swing your wrist around. This has been a problem with the Geneva Ribbon Watchfaces I mentioned a month or so ago.

I've asked her to experiment with some old watches she has laying around in the back room.

Assuming it's as easy a process as she says it is, I wonder if any AAAT forum members would be interested in having an old favorite watch modified?

I, for one, am eager to have the right watch in a case that won't require constant replacement of the S-ring Bar (springbar).


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi dpihl indeed your hunch would be correct that I am associated with one of those companies on your list, the one in question is 

Indeed I have seen the 3 bar buckle's around in a few places combined with the nylon strap but as I previously mentioned, the NATO does seem to be more sought after. Therefore after receiving an e-mail from an un named recipient alterting me to the popularity of the CWB / Grosgrain style I thought I would find out more and represent a genuine interest. Indeed I can see the benefits and drawbacks of both styles and if the popularity of the NATO style is anything to go by the I understand your interest with the CWB strap.


----------



## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

dpihl said:


> BTW: I just got off the phone with my favorite jeweler. She tells me it's a simple thing to replace the s-ring bar (springbar) with something more permanent. A simple solder joint would do it, but she had a few ideas that sounded like they would solve multiple problems at once.
> 
> For instance, a square bar would be harder to use in terms of inserting the watchstrap, but would be less likely to slide around on the strap as you swing your wrist around. This has been a problem with the Geneva Ribbon Watchfaces I mentioned a month or so ago.
> 
> ...


David,

For "fixed bars" on your watch, there are easier methods. Some military watch enthusiasts get high grade stainless steel nails that are the exact width or a little larger. They cut off the nail head. They then cut the nail to the desired with (the width from the outside of the lugs). The nail is then gently bent, and the ends inserted into the watch holes. You can then heat the nail, and re-bend it straight so that it is in you watch lugs. The ends can then be gently tapped to lock it into the lugs. A dab of lock joint can also be added.

A far simpler approach is to purchase larger springbars (try the Seiko or Rolex springbars). If you purchase a springbar that is the exact size of the width of the lugs (generally 20mm for most sport watches), once you wedge it into the holes, it cannot go anywhere. The seiko and rolex springbars are probably about as strong as most fixed bars. And, should you ever want to remove it, just cut the springbars out.

Tom

Mr. Rodgers - If you could stock some regimental striped G10s at a reasonable price, I think you would sell a lot here.


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi Tom, yes it may be feasible but also depends on what regimental stripes your looking for?


----------



## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

MRodgers said:


> Hi Tom, yes it may be feasible but also depends on what regimental stripes your looking for?


Just speaking for myself, I think some of the more basic stripes would be great. I think the Central Watch patterns are popular here. J. Press seems to continue to sell out of their Guards pattern G10 strap. Perhaps a Blue and Red (similar to the guards), a Blue and Green, a Blue and yellow, and whatever others you think would go with traditional clothing.

Thanks for the consideration.


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

MRodgers said:


> Therefore after receiving an e-mail from an un named recipient...


Ooops! Looks like I blew that one.

Mr. Rodgers, I am awfully glad you followed through when I seem to have dropped the ball.

If you can find a souce for the buckles for us, I will gladly become your personal slave for the rest of eternity (pending approval from my wife and children).

I agree with Tom that there is plenty of interest here in the NATO style as well.


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

A tad off-topic, but, for those of you who don't mind 5/8" (16mm) straps, take note that there are some new ones at www.lesbonribbon.com

I like this classic:


----------



## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Harris said:


> A tad off-topic, but, for those of you who don't mind 5/8" (16mm) straps, take note that there are some new ones at www.lesbonribbon.com
> 
> I like this classic:


Harris,

Good tip. I like that ribbon. Do you know if it is of a thickness that it could be thread through a BB or J. Press buckle without stitching or using David's stitch witchery trick?

As an aside, it is a shame that no one seems to make a 3/4 inch width ribbon.

Tom


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

By the way, this 3/4" buckle works perfectly with Central Watch grosgrain straps. All you gotta do is have somebody do about ten seconds worth of stitching/sewing (thanks, dear wife). Easy, and actually more secure than the Central Watch buckle.



Enjoy your holiday.

Cheers.


----------



## knickerbacker (Jun 27, 2005)

BTW, I noticed that the grosgrain bands in the Cable Car catalog all have gold buckles...at $12.50 a band.


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

Harris said:


> A tad off-topic, but, for those of you who don't mind 5/8" (16mm) straps, take note that there are some new ones at www.lesbonribbon.com
> 
> I like this classic:


Now that you mention it Harris, my Straw Boaters both still have the same grosgrain hatbands that shipped with them. Nothing wrong with Navy and Red stripes, but nowadays all boaters look alike.

I'm not sure how lesbonribbon has always escaped my endless web searches, but I'm glad to have the link.

Thanks old boy!

Has anybody seen a boater from an old movie, and really liked the hatband on it? If so, what did it look like?

Also, somebody asked me yesterday about reversible watchstraps.

I thought about it, and realized that I rarely if ever flip my bands around to show the solid coloured side.

How many of you own reversible bands, and how many of you take the time to reverse them? Assuming that some of you do take the time, I have two follow up questions. How often do you reverse them, and do you usually wear the band with the striped side out or the solid side out?

Just curious.


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi again, in response to Tom a lot of striped combinations would probably be possible, the issue relates to quantities supplied because the stripes aren't standard colour combinations and need to be made ip. With most of the requested styles, the nylon can be made up as a whole and lengths cut out of it in 18/20mm sizes.

Also are you referring to NATO or CWB style?

The same answer would probably also apply for the 3 bar buckles if I coul get hold of these. Are we talking about both steel and gilt or just one colour?

Finally Harris, because there are so many different regimental stripes out there, what colours are the ones you mentioned, the RAF is the navy blue 18mm which I have in stock. The same would also apply as per the first response to Tom, colours aren't necessarily an issue where as quanties are.

I know that a few colour styles have been mentioned in the previous posts, should I take them to be in the NATO style only or both?

Michael


----------



## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

MRodgers said:


> Hi again, in response to Tom a lot of striped combinations would probably be possible, the issue relates to quantities supplied because the stripes aren't standard colour combinations and need to be made ip. With most of the requested styles, the nylon can be made up as a whole and lengths cut out of it in 18/20mm sizes.
> 
> Also are you referring to NATO or CWB style?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response and the thought. My suggestion/request was for some G10/Nato style straps in striped (or regimental) patterns. As others have pointed out, both Smart Turnout and J. Press offer some limited patterns in such straps (and my guess is that they sell well). If they could be offered with additional patterns, or for less than the $18 - 29 price range others offer, I think they would sell well among the members here and in watch forums.

I would guess that it would be hard to compete with Central Watch, O'Connell's and others for the non-Nato style regimental striped patterns.


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

The NATO/G10 that I sell are priced at either £6 / £6.50 for 18mm depending on the style or £7.50 / £8 for 20mm.

The problem that all suppliers including myself and maybe central watch etc face is that striped nylon can be made up in the majority of colours but it isn't feasible to only have say 50 people interested in the strap itself as you will have a lot of remaining 'unwanted' stock in certain colours that not all will have an interseted in.

There are so many regiments out there with different colours and styles.


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

You already carry RAF? You may be referring to the RAF style, lacking the extra strap that cradles the watch.

I'm thinking about the actual RAF regiment--the striped strap:


Here's the Royal Artillery:


Royal Engineers:


Royal Marines:


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi Harris I was referring to the NATO/G10 style but in Navy Blue which has the extra piece of nylon as per (code 111N).


As for your links, I'm sure that all of these stripes should be possible but are not available as standard straps where the nylon has already been weaved ready to be cut up into size.

Would you have any idea of how much interest there may be for the popular styles? The idea is certainly a possiblity.


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

It's difficult to say. I'd probably invest in a couple per stripe pattern. I can't speak for others. I'm aware that other businesses are already selling them; so, the corner (of the market) is already partially occupied. 

For instance (scroll down)


There are plenty of club, university, and regimental stripes that I think would look great as NATO/G10 straps, but I know little--nothing, really--about the expense involved in/with making them.


----------



## dpihl (Oct 2, 2005)

*Hot Stamping*

I keep wondering about a technology called "Hot Stamping"

A few years ago, I designed a lanyard for a local convention. The lanyard was to hold the name badges of convention goers, and essentially keep would be counterfeiters out. You could counterfit the name badge, but not the lanyard.

I spoke with many people in the namebadge and lanyard industry, and learned that hot stamping was the best way to deal with smallish quantities of these imprinted lanyards.

The lanyards we chose were very similar to the watchstraps we all know and love, although I suspect the fabric was polyester instead of nylon. The logo I designed was then applied to the lanyard fabric using this "hot stamping" system (which remains mysterious to me).

When we recieved the imprinted lanyards, they looked very much like the watchbands I've owned, with stripes running down the center of a solid coloured strap.

Because the hot stamping was done by an un-named supplier to my local distributor, I don't have access to any more information.

However, it seems as if it should be possible to create "hot stamped" watch straps in smallish quantities, just like it was possible to create the lanyards.

I don't know if continuous stripes would be more problematic than the repeating logo or motif that we used for the convention. I also don't know if it would be impossible to hot stamp the same piece of webbing with multiple colours. I'm assuming the same piece of webbing would have to pass through the machine multiple times, creating registration problems-- not to mention potential for thermal breakdown of the first imprint.

Let's assume that the repeating motif is a seperate animal from continuous stripes. Let's further assume that only one colour is possible with hot stamping.

Even if these assumptions prove accurate, I suspect there might be a market for hot stamped watch straps.

Imagine small red lobsters on a navy band, or small green alligators (crocs) on a pink band, or boat anchors on any colour of band, or ships wheels, or silhouettes of sail boats, etc. etc. etc.

I know some of you have worn spouting whales or duck decoys on your ribbon watch bands (as I have). Would you wear red lobsters if they were not actually woven into the ribbon?


----------



## smartturnout (May 16, 2005)

Glad to see the watchstraps have taken up 3 pages on the forum, as Harris has mentioned we have produced a limited number of styles which will shortly be expanding to over 15 and includes the RAF and RN. We will continue to expand the range.


----------



## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

SmartTurnOut,

A question... Does anyone make 17th Lancers neckties?


----------



## smartturnout (May 16, 2005)

Not that I am aware. I have seen a 21st lancer tie but not 17th. The website is curently being updated but we wil shortly have over 100 different regimnetal, university and school ties available.


----------



## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

Will smartturnout be carrying 20mm or 22mm straps?


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

"_Glad to see the watchstraps have taken up 3 pages on the forum, as Harris has mentioned we have produced a limited number of styles which will shortly be expanding to over 15 and includes the RAF and RN. We will continue to expand the range._"--smartturnout

This is great news. I myself prefer the 18mm (I suspect most people do), and I look forward to seeing the ever expanding collection at Smart Turnout. I notice that the Adjutant General's Corps watch strap was recently added. Great looking straps.

Cheers,
Harris


----------



## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

Very nice looking straps, smartturnout! I was also impressed with the "loo seat" (under Racing)!


----------



## smartturnout (May 16, 2005)

Not currently planning to do anything other than the 18mm as these are the most popular and indeed authentic with the military watch, that is of course unless demand dictates otherwise. Glad you like the loo seat!!


----------



## MRodgers (Aug 31, 2006)

Hi dpihl I would think having the material appropriately woven would be a better option than "hot stamping". That way you know the stripes are woven all the way through the nylon instead of just a heat print on the surface.

Indeed Harris as you rightly point out, for all companies there will be minimum amounts for material being ordered i.e. nylon made up in specific colours / styles or pieces bought whether this be myself or the various other sites on the web. For a lot of the sites who sell these regimental straps, a lot of the sources will also have straps that are left overs from a batch order for that particular regiment.

May black / yellow / black or yellow/ black / yellow (I've forgotten off hand which combination it is) be of any interest in 18mm NATO style?


----------



## Plainsman (Jun 29, 2006)

smartturnout said:


> Not currently planning to do anything other than the 18mm as these are the most popular and indeed authentic with the military watch, that is of course unless demand dictates otherwise. Glad you like the loo seat!!


I can testify to the quality of the Smart Turnout watch bands. I have several and they are great. More colors? I'm all over it.


----------



## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Smart Turnout deserves many words of praise. Great accessories--including the growing collection of watch straps--as well as those great jumpers. Cheers, Harris


----------



## castle (Apr 4, 2006)

Many thanks Harris for your kind coments glad that you like the range of products. We are always open to suggestions for new products!

Philip


----------



## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

I just got back from walk over to Chipp and Central Watch and snagged a few of the last trad grosgrain they had onsite, maybe more available online, but still happy with them.


----------



## dshell (Mar 17, 2007)

dpihl said:


> I keep wondering about a technology called "Hot Stamping"
> ...
> Even if these assumptions prove accurate, I suspect there might be a market for hot stamped watch straps.
> ...
> Imagine small red lobsters on a navy band, or small green alligators (crocs) on a pink band, or boat anchors on any colour of band, or ships wheels, or silhouettes of sail boats, etc. etc. etc.


I am intrigued by this possibility. 
The company Malahide Presses (https://www.hotstamping.com ) sell machines for hot stamping, but they run to five figures even for used ones.

It seems that while one can find companies that will hot stamp lanyards very easily (e.g., https://www.thelanyardauthority.com https://www.justlanyards.com ) the trouble is finding some company that would be willing to experiment with a provided watch strap, etc.

Still, dpihl, it's an interesting idea.


----------

