# America versus The Dry Cleaners



## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

Gentlemen:

I've been fed up for far longer than I care to imagine with the level of service at any local cleaner in my area. Shirts come back shrunk, with broken buttons, and smelling of chemicals. Naturally, I have been doing my own laundry as a result (dry clean only items aside, periodically). I wash my shirts about once a month in the washing machine on delicate, then tumble dry for about 20 minutes and iron. They are each worn twice before washing. Trousers are worn 4-5 times before being sent to the cleaners. Coats and other items are sent 1-4 times a year depending on wear, stains, etc.

My questions are thus:

How many times do you wear each item before cleaning? Is there a way to clean wool trousers at home? How do you not only preserve the 3/2 on a jacket, but the _roll_ of the lapel when taking a jacket to the cleaners? I assumed this wasn't possible long ago, and that it would automatically be pressed? Thoughts, tips, and tricks welcome!


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

I rarely go to the drycleaners so it's never been an issue for me. there's one by my house that uses natural cleaners, so I don't think i'd have to worry about the funky chemical smell you're talking about.

dry clean only items aside, I wash, dry and iron all of my own clothes. I tend to wash/iron dress shirts after they've been worn once, mainly because I want to avoid staining around the collar whenever possible. my dress pants are a little more forgiving and I can usually wear them 3-4 times before I feel like I need to throw them in the wash. I guess I don't understand the need to take my clothing to the dry cleaners when I can do it at home for free


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## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

Throw dress pants in the wash? Please do explain.


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## cglex (Oct 23, 2006)

You must have a lot of free time on your hands or wear wrinkled shirts or both. A fresh professionally laundered (not drycleaned) and pressed cotton shirt every day has always been standard for me. I hate to think how much time it would take me to wash and iron my own shirts. Good shirts don't shrink much and the shrinkage is taken into account when they are made. I get the broken buttons repaired as needed and keep an ample clean shirt supply on hand in case there are broken buttons.

Anything other than chemical cleaning of wool garments will create problems as the different fabrics will shrink at different rates from using water. Also, unlike shirts, the maker doesn't take shrinkage from "washing" into account.

As for the proper pressing of a 3/2 coat, I gave up on that 30 years ago. A 3/2 is essentially a 2 button with a decorative third button added on, so go with a 2 button that the cleaner will press properly.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Possibly there are others locally to try. I went through at least ten before I settled on my current dry cleaners.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

cglex said:


> You must have a lot of free time on your hands or wear wrinkled shirts or both. A fresh professionally laundered (not drycleaned) and pressed cotton shirt every day has always been standard for me. I hate to think how much time it would take me to wash and iron my own shirts. Good shirts don't shrink much and the shrinkage is taken into account when they are made. I get the broken buttons repaired as needed and keep an ample clean shirt supply on hand in case there are broken buttons.


on average it takes me 5-10 minutes to iron a shirt and they come out pretty good, especially when all i'm using is a spray bottle with water and an iron. they may not have that 'fresh pressed from the dry cleaner' look but they are by no means wrinkled. but then again, if you're someone who is required to wear a suit & tie everyday to work then I can understand the necessity of having your shirts laundered


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## The Raven (Nov 7, 2006)

For me, it is mandatory to find a laundry that can do shirts properly. I would keep looking. I only wear a 100% cotton must-iron dress shirt once before laundering. I will sometimes wear a non-iron dress shirt several times before laundering as they don't tend to wrinkle as much.

I don't count, but I will wear 100% wool odd trousers sometimes up to a dozen times before having them dry cleaned. Your best friend for wool suits and trousers, in my opinion, is a good steamer to remove wrinkles and to freshen.

I don't wear a suit every day, but I have some suits that have never been dry cleaned. I may go years before dry cleaning a suit. Sometimes a may just send the trousers but not the jacket. Again, the steamer is what makes this possible. I take care of minor spills right away with a slightly damp cloth.

I will wear wool sweaters many times before washing. I wash them in cold water in the bathtub with woolite.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Here's a bunch of stuff I previously wrote about dry cleaning in another thread.


I'm all for dry cleaning something when it really needs it - a jacket/suit after wearing numerous times in a season or before getting put away for storage, but the number of trousers/shirts/etc. that now say "dry clean only" is getting rather ridiculous and strikes me as just a way for manufacturers to avoid taking returns in case you ruin something while washing it.

As I said, I dry clean suits/sport coats, but everything else gets either washed on gentle cycle (turn cords/moleskins inside out) or soaked in the bathtub with woolite (sweaters, wool odd trousers, linen). I just figure that all of these fabrics predate dry cleaning and were cleaned well in the past, we just need to take proper care of them and they'll be fine.

[Someone asked whether it's a risk to hand wash wool flannel trousers]

I take the "risk" all the time and have never ruined a pair of wool trousers whether tropical weight, regular worsted, or flannels, including ones with lining. The trick is to allow them just to sit in the cold water (at least an hour or two) and not squeeze, wring, twist, or otherwise touch them too much - just let the woolite/detergent (regular dishwashing detergent actually works quite well) do its job. Drain the water (don't touch the wool yet), refill to rinse, rinse again, drain and allow the trousers to rest and drain more of their water, carefully take them out and gently press between two towels, hang on supportive drying rack, let air dry, press with heavy iron and press cloth. If you have a stain, use Colgate's Octagon soap and very gently spot clean the trousers allowing the soap to sit on the stain (but not dry out) for an hour or two and then rinse carefully.


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## The Raven (Nov 7, 2006)

*I forgot to mention...*

I also have a good clothing brush and brush my suits and trousers well after every wearing (as well as before wearing). I believe this is critical to extend the time between cleanings.


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## WindsorNot (Aug 7, 2009)

Thanks Cardinal, I was most curious about cleaning wool trousers. I might get up the courage to try one of these days.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Nothing beats shirts washed at home, air dried, then ironed with light starch. Better than "professionally" done.


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## G Charles Blue (Oct 18, 2009)

^ Amen! For me, air drying removes the need for starch.

Takes 7.75 minutes to iron a shirt each day AND if I know I won't be taking off my jacket and I am running late, then it take less time to just do the essentials (collar, front & cuffs)!

After having numerous mop buttons cracked or broken by the cleaners, I do my own and am much happier (and richer)!


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

For some time I've wanted to ask about the frequency of cleaning, but was a bit too embarrassed. I'm glad WindsorNot put up the thread. 

I don't sweat much, live in moderate humidity, and always wear a t-shirt when it gets cool. With button down shirts, I usually wear them at least 5 or 6 times between washings, the only exception being a hot or humid day where the need for cleaning is obvious. Madras shirts get washed more often because they tend to get worn on that type of day.

With washable trousers, I only wash them (1) when something gets on them or (2) they have wrinkled and lost their crease beyond what I consider acceptable. In the winter, that might mean up to 10 wearings of a single pair. That means that a pair of wool pants might get worn a dozen times through half a year of cool weather, and then hung up to rest for a full 6 months--without ever having been cleaned. They'll be rested and fresh for the next year.

Underwear and socks get washed after every wearing, no exceptions.

All washables are line dried, and shirts and trousers are ironed before wearing.

Non-washables get dry cleaned only if bought second hand, and only before the first wearing. I never have clothes dry cleaned after that--but I would if something spilled on them that I couldn't remove myself. My practice is to try to clean with water and/or gentle brushing. I have a good clothes brush, which I use with some regularity on wool jackets to keep them clean. 

I once read an article, maybe in the WSJ, probably in the 1980s. It was a debate about what causes suits to wear out. On one side was the argument that cleaning destroys them. On the other, the argument was that small particles get into the weave of the fabric and this then distorts the fabric, beginning with small distortions that over years and when compounded with numerous other small distortions, eventually does noticeable damage. It seems to me that the antidote to both of these is first to stay clean, and second, as with teeth and shoes, to brush regularly.

I also think it is important to rotate garments. If you don't wear a shirt, pair of trousers or suit more than once a week, they tend to stay fresh forever.

Apologies for the long post. I'm not aiming for autobiography. I really want to hear other people's opinions and practices.


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## rojo (Apr 29, 2004)

I have a favorite navy blazer that I bought at a second-hand store for probably $12 when I was in college 25 years ago. Recently it needed cleaning, so I sent it to the dry cleaners, but it didn't come back clean enough for me. I decided to try washing the offending areas in the sink. What did I have to lose? I'd paid only about $12 for the blazer, after a quarter century of use I've gotten my money out of it many times over, and it was no longer wearable in its soiled state. 

The first thing I found was that it was impossible to dampen just certain areas. Almost the whole blazer soaked up water. The second thing I found was that it really did get cleaner. However, the blazer turned into a wrinkled mess, so I let it air dry for a couple of days. Next, I pressed carefully with a cool iron, using a pressing cloth only intermittently. The blazer is right as rain now and looks like it will go on giving me years of use.

I don't recommend you try this at home. I can't find any fabric content labeling on the blazer, so it could have some polyester in it. Judging by its narrow lapels, it could date from the early 1960s before fabric content labeling was required.


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

gaseousclay said:


> on average it takes me 5-10 minutes to iron a shirt and they come out pretty good, especially when all i'm using is a spray bottle with water and an iron. they may not have that 'fresh pressed from the dry cleaner' look but they are by no means wrinkled.


x2. Doing one's own laundry is not an onerous task. I do all my laundry once a week, usually Sundays, and press my shirts and pants in one batch while watching the Iron Chef show.

I only go to the dry cleaners to remove stains from suits. If they simply need a freshening I will use the at-home-dryer-in-a-bag system, which I find removes any residual odours very well. I don't care for a hard press in my suits or jackets so I can easily remove wrinkles with a steamer and light iron use.



P Hudson said:


> With button down shirts, I usually wear them at least 5 or 6 times between washings, the only exception being a hot or humid day where the need for cleaning is obvious. Madras shirts get washed more often because they tend to get worn on that type of day.


I will generally wash a dress shirt after each wearing, assuming that the wear is a full work day. If I only wear the shirt half the day I will sometimes put it back up on the hanger for a second use, but that is rare.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

I too do my own shirt laundry, and if I wear a tie with a shirt, one wearing is the most they get before they go through the laundry (I get ring-around-the-color after one wearing, not the yellow stuff but the discoloration). 

I wash my shirts and then hang dry.

The one difference being I don't press them. Am I the only rumpled member of our forum these days (at least in regard to shirts, I also don't care for a perfectly pressed jacket like harvey_birdman)?


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## eyedoc2180 (Nov 19, 2006)

Wow. Life is too short for any number of the options suggested. I have made one adjustment as an Ask Andy poster, that is, to do much less dry cleaning of high-quality woolen items. Brush it out with a clothing brush, air it out, and let it be. Sorry, but I am not putting a Paul Stuart or BB 1818 suit in the tub where my dog bathes. A pre-Andy adjustment was to purchase moderate-quality shirts that the cleaner could abuse as desired.
Bill
:devil:


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

WindsorNot said:


> How many times do you wear each item before cleaning? Is there a way to clean wool trousers at home? How do you not only preserve the 3/2 on a jacket, but the _roll_ of the lapel when taking a jacket to the cleaners? I assumed this wasn't possible long ago, and that it would automatically be pressed? Thoughts, tips, and tricks welcome!


Unless there is a stain on my clothing, suits and jackets are dry cleaned twice a year when I change my rotation from spring/summer to autumn/winter. Wool pants are probably worn 10-15 times until dry cleaned, but I normally get a stain on them first. Shirts are worn once, but I launder them at home and have them laundered at the dry cleaners maybe once a year or if there is a bad stain I can't get out.

You can clean wool trousers at home, and I basically do what Cardinals5 does except for the towel pressing which means I just let them hand dry for longer. Every once and a while, I'll clean my feet very well and give a few walks in the bath tub too for a bit of movement.

As for the cleaners, I looked at a lot of cleaners before I found the one I currently go to which is probably going to make you envious. Though they are a bit more expensive, everything is next day service (pay more for same day), they automatically fix or replace buttons for free, home deliveries for free, french reweaving which I've used twice already, and they do not use perc. If you are in the LA area, I would definately check out https://www.myfashioncleaners.com/ Print out a coupon too because it definately lowers the price to a more acceptable level. These kind of dry cleaners do exist but you just need to find them out.


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

In fairness, I find the act of ironing to be quite relaxing. Kind of like polishing my shoes, changing my car's oil or many other simple and repetitious tasks. Perhaps there's something "zen-like" about it.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Cardinals5 said:


> Here's a bunch of stuff I previously wrote about dry cleaning in another thread.
> 
> 
> I'm all for dry cleaning something when it really needs it - a jacket/suit after wearing numerous times in a season or before getting put away for storage, but the number of trousers/shirts/etc. that now say "dry clean only" is getting rather ridiculous and strikes me as just a way for manufacturers to avoid taking returns in case you ruin something while washing it.
> ...


Very interesting!

I wear shirts once before home-laundering, and wear suits/sportocats infrequently enough that I can get away with very occasional visits to the cleaners.

Wool pants have been my biggest worry, I have a couple older pairs I'll try this moethod one and report back!


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## Benson (Aug 28, 2009)

Certainly not. My iron has never seen a shirt.

B



Coleman said:


> Am I the only rumpled member of our forum these days (at least in regard to shirts)?


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Wool pants have been my biggest worry, I have a couple older pairs I'll try this moethod one and report back!


Definitely works - I've washed countless pairs of trousers and have still yet to lose one because of washing. I would advise, however, that you do either start with an older pair (as you indicated) or even stop by a thrift store and purchase a cheap pair and practice your technique.


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## crohnsappleadams (Nov 30, 2009)

I always wear an undershirt, so four or five wears prior to cleaning is about par. With pants, I give them a sniff test after each wearing. I've never taken any suit or jacket to the cleaners more than two or three times a year unless it smelled of smoke (major downside to being a musician).


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Coleman said:


> The one difference being I don't press them. Am I the only rumpled member of our forum these days (at least in regard to shirts, I also don't care for a perfectly pressed jacket like harvey_birdman)?


Count another in your merry band of non-ironers. Dress shirts (pinpoints) get the ol' iron from me, but the idea of an OCBD and an iron getting together is anathema.

OCBD's just don't look right ironed, thus I avoid the non-irons like the plague. When my wife launders my shirts, I tell her no hurry to get out the oxfords.

On the other hand, I like my khakis to be more wrinkled throughout the day, but they must not start looking like they were balled up. Even my wife can't tell where the line is on "too wrinkly" for wear, so I take charge of the chinos.

Actually this whole mess (dry cleaning) is why I quit bothering with Purple Label - that and the ludicrous expense. Found my dog chewing on a bone on top of my Purple Label shorts and decided life was too short to pay my dry cleaner's kids way through college.


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## boatshoe (Oct 30, 2008)

I wash my shirts after one wearing, and wear them with an undershirt. Until discovering the internet, I didn't know anyone did any different. I don't air-dry the shirts because it makes the fabric feel harder and I'm a delicate flower.


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## icky thump (Feb 2, 2008)

The local cleaners do a better job with shirts than suits. I get shirts done regularly (I don't have time to iron) and send suits as infrequently as possible. 

My dry cleaner has a terrible habit of messing up the lapel on my 3 button J presses. But here's my general schedule. 

Any broadcloth or pinpoint shirts I wear once before having laundered. I have about a half-dozen Nordstrom Smart Care shirts that I can get two or three wears out of before having laundered. I can also get about two wearings out of any cotton oxford button downs. 

Bill's Khakis, I can get about three wearings before washing them myself. Same for jeans and other casual pants. 

i wear suits nearly every day. I have a ten wool suit rotation. I have four Paul Stuarts since 2005 and don't think I have ever had them cleaned or pressed. I have four J. Press suits and since about 2006 and don't think I have pressed or cleaned each more than twice. I have two brooks brothers since 2007 -- one a heavy nail's head that I have never had pressed; the second a tropical wool Navy Southwick that I have to press every other wearing. The only thing I am fastidious about is that if I am around smoke, the suit gets sent to the cleaners that day. 

I have three cotton poplin summer suits. I get these all cleaned and pressed at the beginning and end of the summer.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

I bought a used Ike Behar collared shirt the other day and aside from some slight staining on the chest pocket it looked brand new. so, I brought the shirt into the dry cleaner by my house and asked if they could get the stain out and the guy working there told me stores that sell second-hand clothing are required to launder their clothing before selling them to the public. the shirt I bought looked like-new and like it hadn't been laundered, so I was wondering if he was just BSing me or being lazy about getting the stain out.


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## Luftvier (Feb 7, 2010)

gaseousclay said:


> I bought a used Ike Behar collared shirt the other day and aside from some slight staining on the chest pocket it looked brand new. so, I brought the shirt into the dry cleaner by my house and asked if they could get the stain out and the guy working there told me stores that sell second-hand clothing are required to launder their clothing before selling them to the public. the shirt I bought looked like-new and like it hadn't been laundered, so I was wondering if h*e was just BSing me or being lazy about getting the stain out.*


:teacha:


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

The only things I really take to the cleaners are my dress pants (which I wear once or twice a week each to work) maybe every few months and my wool sweaters and suit jackets/sportcoats if they get stained. Since I really only wear them in my car on the way to/from work and at work, I really don’t feel like they get dirty unless I spill something on them. 

All but a handful of my shirts are non-iron (I’m only 23) except a few oxford cloth shirts that I’ve had since high school that I wear casually and hang straight out of the dryer so they are not that wrinkled but are not pressed. I’ll wear a shirt several times before I wash them depending on what I was doing when I wore the shirt i.e. if I go to a smoky bar (yes most bars in Fort Worth, TX unfortunately allow smoking indoors) or if I was outside for an extended period of time and they soak up that outside smell I will toss them in the hamper. I don’t sweat much so as long as the shirt smells fresh or has a neutral smell, it’s clean to me.

I have been doing my own laundry since I was 12 and have been ironing since I was 16 and like others have posted above, I actually enjoy ironing and will do so while I watch TV.

By the way, if anyone has heard the trick about putting jeans in a plastic bag in the freezer overnight to take out smells, it does a reasonable job, for example when I go to a smoky bar and my jeans are clean but they smell like smoke.


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## dcjacobson (Jun 25, 2007)

For cotton must-iron shirts, I wear once and then they're off to the laundry--medium starch. (There is no way they will look as nice if I try to do it myself.) For no-iron shirts, I usually wear once, but sometimes twice. They go to the laundry, too.

I wear wool pants five days a week, and a jacket maybe three days a week. I use a clothing brush, and then at the end of the week I use a steamer to get rid of the crotch wrinkles. The jackets hardly ever need steaming.

Barring accidental stains, the pants and the jackets go to the cleaners only at the end of the season.

As an aside, I've had my shirts laundered since 1980. Never once have I had an instance of excessive wear because of laundering or starching. When I started out in the work world, I did take my suits to the cleaners too often, the result being fraying and shine. So now I take pants and jackets to the cleaners as little as possible.

Good luck,
Don


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## dcjacobson (Jun 25, 2007)

> so I was wondering if he was just BSing me or being lazy about getting the stain out.


Try a rubbing a bar of Fels-Naptha soap on the stain. Let sit for a couple minutes, and then rinse out. I bet it will work.

Good luck,
Don


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