# Hardwick Suits



## Zot!

I spotted this company in an ad originally posted by AldenPyle, after googling all the "____wick" clothiers that were listed. Seems they're still around, and (if the link below is to be believed) _still made in the USA_. These suits are pretty cheap. No 3b sack. The shoulders are moderately padded. They are definitely playing on the trad imagery, though: click on "Blazers," or "Spring Suits."

https://www.smithclothingcompany.com/

Anybody know anything more about them?


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## Wyvern1138

It looks like Hardwick is the same outfit that makes the sportcoats for Kevin's Catalog.


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## JLAnderson

*Proudly made in Cleveland, Tenn.*

They're headquartered in Cleveland, Tennessee, and have been since the late 1880s.

Here's the Web site:
https://www.hardwickclothes.com/

I have a couple of sportcoats by them ... they're good, solid garments that are still made by AMERICAN workers.


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## Zot!

I find it strange that they would post the names of the suits and the fabrics, but not show or describe what they actually look like.


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## Three Button

Good to know that a major employer in my hometown is still around.


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## nolan50410

Here is a site Hardwick uses to sell directly online.

https://menssuitseparates.com/

A couple of retailers in my area carry some Hardwick pieces. My preferred shop carries their seersucker suits in the spring and summer. In fact I just called and reserved one when they come in. They are definitely better quality then JAB. My dad has a camel hair sportcoat and a couple of their basic suits. I would put Hardwick in the same category (or slightly above) the entry level line at JAB. They are certainly better then anything at S&K or Men's Wearhouse.


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## dshell

nolan50410 said:


> Here is a site Hardwick uses to sell directly online.
> 
> https://menssuitseparates.com/


They have this rather unusual picture on their website:


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## windsor

ahh..the man is a rake.


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## Zot!

Either that, or it's a production still from an unsuccessful attempt to launch an updated version of _Green Acres_.


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## filfoster

Easy to see that they don't spend much on advertising. Just got the Harris Tweed sportcoat and the navy cashmere/wool/silk sportcoat and they are much better than the price led me to expect. The tweed is a bit stiff but the navy jacket has a very nice 'hand' and looks very traditional. I may try a suit since these are office 'overalls' and would give my BB ones a breather. I bet no one would notice.


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## Bandit44

filfoster said:


> Easy to see that they don't spend much on advertising. Just got the Harris Tweed sportcoat and the navy cashmere/wool/silk sportcoat and they are much better than the price led me to expect. The tweed is a bit stiff but the navy jacket has a very nice 'hand' and looks very traditional. I may try a suit since these are office 'overalls' and would give my BB ones a breather. I bet no one would notice.


Is the navy blazer you received similar to doeskin/flannel?


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## filfoster

Yes. It is very soft, looks like flannel, but not 'weak', if you know what I mean. I guess I have some fears about its wear but at that price, if it's even moderately durable, it's a nice jacket because of its look and feel. I am lucky that the OTR sizing works for me although fiddling with sleeves is my usual OCD trait. 

As a side note, I just got two BB sport coats by their online sale and honestly, I like these Hardwick ones as much.


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## unmodern

I have their Craig model navy blazer. (Two button, darted.) I was driven to do some research when the new Anderson-Little navy blazer didn't come in my size. In my limited experience the Hardwick blazer seems to be a great buy at only $160 shipped. (I went with americansuitstore.com, very quick and free shipping.) I believe there's a fellow on these fora who has a Hardwick tuxedo and is similarly pleased with it.


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## filfoster

unmodern said:


> I have their Craig model navy blazer. (Two button, darted.) I was driven to do some research when the new Anderson-Little navy blazer didn't come in my size. In my limited experience the Hardwick blazer seems to be a great buy at only $160 shipped. (I went with americansuitstore.com, very quick and free shipping.) I believe there's a fellow on these fora who has a Hardwick tuxedo and is similarly pleased with it.


I bought the navy one from www.thesuitableco.com and then found what looks like the factory's own online site (despite their claim that they do not have a direct sale facility): https://www.menssuitseparates.com/
This latter site is where the Harris Tweed black and white herringbone jacket was bought. It is apparently the same jacket as shown on the other sites but considerably less expensive (on sale, $188.10 delivered, versus the $275 on the other first listed site above).


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## filfoster

unmodern said:


> I have their Craig model navy blazer. (Two button, darted.) I was driven to do some research when the new Anderson-Little navy blazer didn't come in my size. In my limited experience the Hardwick blazer seems to be a great buy at only $160 shipped. (I went with americansuitstore.com, very quick and free shipping.) I believe there's a fellow on these fora who has a Hardwick tuxedo and is similarly pleased with it.


What fabric is your blazer?


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## dorji

I love my Hardwick stuff... only problem I've found is that their longs are longer than average. Other that that they are great. i have a seersucker suit that is only seersucker fabric (no lining at all), and a Harris tweed which is 1/4 lined and about as soft as they come.


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## unmodern

filfoster said:


> What fabric is your blazer?


100% wool, a tropical weight but fully lined, so it's year-round. I like the fabric a lot, it's grainier than a worsted but not quite as much so as a hopsack.


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## fishertw

I have a navy poplin suit (seems that it's 60% cotton, 40% poly) that I've worn for about three summers and it has been a "go-to" suit. The fit is good and the price (IIRC) was good in the neighborhood of $200. 
Tom


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## hockeyinsider

Zot! said:


> I spotted this company in an ad originally posted by AldenPyle, after googling all the "____wick" clothiers that were listed. Seems they're still around, and (if the link below is to be believed) _still made in the USA_. These suits are pretty cheap. No 3b sack. The shoulders are moderately padded. They are definitely playing on the trad imagery, though: click on "Blazers," or "Spring Suits."
> 
> https://www.smithclothingcompany.com/
> 
> Anybody know anything more about them?


I bought a sport jacket three or four years ago from a local menswear store that carries the brand. It was so-so ... I think it cost close to $400. Not sure if it was really worth it. Perhaps for under $250 it might be.


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## filfoster

Indeed, almost every pic on the site is eccentric-e.g. the guys looking through the megaphones-has to be intentional. Would love to have heard the ad agency concept 'sell' spiel.



dshell said:


> They have this rather unusual picture on their website:


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## filfoster

Just got an all wool charcoal Hardwick suit and wore it last week. What a wonderful suit! I ordered another navy one that I will use to give my more expensive BB and JAB ones a rest.
The fit was fine and the fabric looks nice, not as fine as BB but the fit was actually better and the weight of the cloth suggests it will be a sturdy player for work week. I also wore it as a 'cocktail attire' suit Friday evening and it did not look out of place. 
There's no psychic status to wearing these but I am surprised that they look so good for the modest price. I am tempted not to tell anyone in my workplace about them.


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## maximar

filfoster said:


> Just got an all wool charcoal Hardwick suit and wore it last week. What a wonderful suit! I ordered another navy one that I will use to give my more expensive BB and JAB ones a rest.
> The fit was fine and the fabric looks nice, not as fine as BB but the fit was actually better and the weight of the cloth suggests it will be a sturdy player for work week. I also wore it as a 'cocktail attire' suit Friday evening and it did not look out of place.
> There's no psychic status to wearing these but I am surprised that they look so good for the modest price. I am tempted not to tell anyone in my workplace about them.


Congrats on your purchase. Can you give us a pictured review? Can you post a pic with you or someone wearing it? I am curious about the shoulders of the suit. Is it soft shouldered and sloped?


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## filfoster

maximar said:


> Congrats on your purchase. Can you give us a pictured review? Can you post a pic with you or someone wearing it? I am curious about the shoulders of the suit. Is it soft shouldered and sloped?


I wish I could post a picture, but I don't have any photo bucket or other hosted service account, which I understand is required. I judge the shoulders as soft and certainly not 'roped' but the suit is structured and is probably fused at this price point. The 'fusing' is not badly done and the interfacing will readily pull away as you pinch the lining and outer fabric. The lining is not deluxe, really just a servicable bemberg-like fabric, not satiny. The appeal, other than a bargain price, is the overall look of a nicer suit, with a fabric that has little sheen to it, which I like.


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## joenobody0

dshell said:


> They have this rather unusual picture on their website:


Probably trying to draw attention away from the flap pockets...


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## hockeyinsider

filfoster said:


> I wish I could post a picture, but I don't have any photo bucket or other hosted service account, which I understand is required. I judge the shoulders as soft and certainly not 'roped' but the suit is structured and is probably fused at this price point. The 'fusing' is not badly done and the interfacing will readily pull away as you pinch the lining and outer fabric. The lining is not deluxe, really just a servicable bemberg-like fabric, not satiny. The appeal, other than a bargain price, is the overall look of a nicer suit, with a fabric that has little sheen to it, which I like.


Imageshack doesn't require an account.


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## filfoster

hockeyinsider said:


> Imageshack doesn't require an account.


Thanks for that. I have another idea: I will get a pic this week when I next wear the suit to work and post it as my Avatar.


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## Jovan

Not necessary. This forum has a feature where you can upload a picture direct from your computer into your post. It also isn't very hard to upload and link pictures, which is preferred since it allows for larger and more detailed ones. I can show you how if you want.


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## filfoster

Jovan said:


> Not necessary. This forum has a feature where you can upload a picture direct from your computer into your post. It also isn't very hard to upload and link pictures, which is preferred since it allows for larger and more detailed ones. I can show you how if you want.


Jovan, thank you. I will try to upload from my computer and if I hit a snag, I will need your help.


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## 127.72 MHz

^^ The feature to upload an image directly from your computer is straight forward.


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## Jovan

Typically it sizes those pictures down a lot, however. This is why uploading to an image website (or your own webspace if you have it) is always preferable.


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## filfoster

I plan to wear the suit tomorrow and get a pic inserted then. 
I did order another suit, a navy one, on the strength of my experience with the charcoal one and three sport coats. I am just pleasantly surprised that these look as nice as my BB ones, to me at least, and are a LOT less expensive. I wear a suit every day (except for the 'casual Friday' for the sport coats) and they are like 'overalls' so I don't mind trading status for servicablity if the appearance is acceptable.


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## Jovan

At the least, you're keeping jobs in the USA.


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## maximar

As far as I know, you will be the first to do the Hardwick review with pics. 
It will be even great if you pose with a pitchfork, though. Then you will be the first of both. Then all them forumites at the WAYWT thread will be green with envy! :biggrin:


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## 127.72 MHz

Jovan said:


> Typically it sizes those pictures down a lot, however. This is why uploading to an image website (or your own webspace if you have it) is always preferable.


Interesting. In the few times I have done this I have found that it does size down the images but when a user selects the image I've downloaded it sizes it back up to the original size. (if that makes sense)


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## Jovan

You're right actually. I just tested it out. Maybe it's always been that way or was just changed with the forum software upgrade. You have to click the thumbnail and then the popup image to get the full size.


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## filfoster

maximar said:


> As far as I know, you will be the first to do the Hardwick review with pics.
> It will be even great if you pose with a pitchfork, though. Then you will be the first of both. Then all them forumites at the WAYWT thread will be green with envy! :biggrin:


Thanks for the suggestion! Don't have a pitchfork but have some other odd props in my office. I will try to capture the weird Hardwick vibe while managing some decent shots of the suit.


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## filfoster

OK, am wearing the suit today and will post pics when my tech savvy and long suffering office neighbor arrives this AM to humor me with some pix.
What you may like about the suit: General appearance, the cloth is a very dark charcoal and has slightly more body than my BB equivalent. The shoulders and length of this 42L are OK for my 6' 2" 160 lb frame; The collar does not bulge or pucker. The sleeves are just long enough to show some cuff on my 16 x 35 shirt; the trousers are cuffed, pleat front (meant to order the flat front, oh well). I have no seat (managers and health issues pounded mine to pulp), so these fit comfortably for me at 33" x 32". If you are more prosperously proportioned, you may not enjoy that fit.

You may not like: The waistband of the trousers have that awful rubbery gripper thing. I am looking forward to reading threads on those, if there are any.
The pants pockets do not have the inner change pocket. The jacket does not have the now ubiquitous cell phone pocket. These are expected compromises at this price point.


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## Jovan

How is it awful? That rubbery gripper thing is meant to keep your shirt tucked.


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## 127.72 MHz

Jovan already mentioned the rubber band in the trousers which is a feature I like. 

I absolutely hate the inner change pocket in that I seldom carry change and if I happen to put anything else in the pocket it goes to the change section and can not be easily removed.

One of there wool navy suits looks like a good item to try for foul weather. For casual denim and the like a couple of their sport coats seem worth a try given their price point.

Looking forward to the images.


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## Jovan

... or you could, ya know, wear a raincoat for foul weather! :icon_smile_big:

I prefer a fob pocket at the bottom of the waistband for change since it's less conspicuous. Manufacturers often (mistakenly?) call this a change pocket since that's all it is used for these days.


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## 127.72 MHz

^^ Knowing I live in the pacific northwest foul weather consists of many gray days. People say it rains all the time here but that's not true it just looks as though it's going to rain for about four months out of the year. 

So lots of us keep a rain coat and umbrella handy but if you actually wore the rain coat every time it looked like rain you'd never take the coat off.

Trust me it's very common to have a couple of suits and sport coats for light mist which is what it does most of the time in the Winter.


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## filfoster

Jovan said:


> How is it awful? That rubbery gripper thing is meant to keep your shirt tucked.


It's OK, I guess and it does what it's supposed to do but I just don't like the tactile feel of it when I put it on.


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## filfoster

*PIctures...?*







Management shell game.


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## filfoster

too dark to be useful...


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## 127.72 MHz

^^ For the money it doesn't look bad. One time I had to buy a real cheap suit, not quality just cheap, because my bag didn't make the flight and I had a meeting to attend. 

I purchased the cheap suit and rather than take their cheap tailoring I took a chance and went to a pretty good tailor. He charged me about the same money that it cost me for the suit to do it in a hurry but it really fit and looked very presentable.

That was my "Rain" suit for about ten years.

Good tailoring can really make a difference.

p.s. I like the management shell game pose.


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## filfoster

Speaking to Lumbergh on the red Swingline. That left sleeve cuff won't sell the suit. It looks better in person.


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## Jovan

Not too shabby. Armholes look a bit big given how much it's pulling the jacket to the side, however.

Be careful not to give yourself an accidental auricle piercing there. I don't think you're quite young enough to pull it off. :icon_smile_big:


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## filfoster

Jovan said:


> Not too shabby. Armholes look a bit big given how much it's pulling the jacket to the side, however.
> 
> Be careful not to give yourself an accidental auricle piercing there. I don't think you're quite young enough to pull it off. :icon_smile_big:


Actually, the scye (correct term?) is rather high. I have no immediate plans for a piercing although customers and management threaten involuntary ones daily.


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## filfoster

For those of us wearing suits every day, it's nice to have an inexpensive line to work into the rotation. I only recently gave up public transportation for commuting and am sensitive to the issue of rain and snow on the unprotected trouser legs. I often wished for a convenient downtown dry cleaner who would put a crease back into the soggy trousers. I eventually opted for a nylon overpants from a 'rainsuit'. Looked extra dorky but worked.


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## Jovan

I would just sponge and press the suit yourself, personally. Most dry cleaners are terrible.


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## 127.72 MHz

^^ Hence the fowl weather suit,....:idea:


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## Jovan

Fowl weather?


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## 127.72 MHz

Got me with your foul sense of humor.

Sometimes I think I'm pretty slick with this keyboard and how fast I can type. (But the brain wasn't engaged)

Don't know why there's no sun up in the sky.


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## filfoster

Jovan said:


> Fowl weather?


Duck weather?


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## filfoster

Jovan said:


> I would just sponge and press the suit yourself, personally. Most dry cleaners are terrible.


Agreed! I just needed a crease restored. When I was younger, back in the '60's, there were TV ads for a gadangus that was probably only a woman's hair iron that was sold as a 'pants creaser' for men to plug in and use on their trousers at work, while they were wearing them. Basically, it was a handle with two heated 'blades' that opened by a trigger, and would close and press your pants crease. I am sure they would not survive the lawsuits for idiotic use now.


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## Jovan

Even I wouldn't trust myself with that contraption. I've seen one before and I'd be afraid of singeing my leg hairs (and maybe some skin) off!


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## maximar

Thanks for the pics. The shoulders of the jacket looks pretty soft. You ever tried a 41L jacket? By the looks of the pics, you still have space for a little suppression. That of course is totally dependent on your what you feel is more comfortable.

The pic with you on the table is very "trad" from haircut, eyeglasses, to watch. But the best is, I think even the great Uncle Mac himself does not have such cute walnut shells!


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## jwooten

maximar said:


> But the best is, I think even the great Uncle Mac himself does not have such cute walnut shells!


I see what you did there.


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## filfoster

maximar said:


> Thanks for the pics. The shoulders of the jacket looks pretty soft. You ever tried a 41L jacket? By the looks of the pics, you still have space for a little suppression. That of course is totally dependent on your what you feel is more comfortable.
> 
> The pic with you on the table is very "trad" from haircut, eyeglasses, to watch. But the best is, I think even the great Uncle Mac himself does not have such cute walnut shells!


41's feel too tight to me. I usually get a 43L at BB, which really annoys the tailor because the pants are 37 or 38 and have to be taken in to something as close as he can to 33! That's why I like these 'separates' as well for office wear. I really think they look as good as they need to, paired with proper shirts, ties and shoes, and kept in good condition. I have ordered a navy suit in this same line and am hoping to get a lot of wear from them.

I have not yet gotten a seersucker suit or jacket but I notice that Hardwick offers these too. Something to think about this winter.


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## Jovan

There is an AAAC member who was kind enough to email me a photo of his dinner suit from them, since I've been considering it for a while. In the spirit of this thread, I hope he doesn't mind me posting this. The Gotham shawl collar model actually has no vent despite what is said on MensSuitSeparates.com. It would be nice if they had a plain front trouser option instead of just reverse pleats. I prefer pleats to be the forward facing kind but understand that's quite a rarity with American clothing besides Ralph Lauren.


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## frosejr

^^that's me. I don't mind the photo being posted. I really like the tux, and I am glad to hear the quality of the suits is just as good. They will work well for me, and buying a decent suit for about $300 seems to be a good deal.


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## maximar

For the sake of mentioning, Hardwick makes 3/2 sacks but only on special order. The model name is Max.


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## hockeyinsider

maximar said:


> For the sake of mentioning, Hardwick makes 3/2 sacks but only on special order. The model name is Max.


Oh really? What would they cost? I don't see it in their catalogue.


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## filfoster

maximar said:


> For the sake of mentioning, Hardwick makes 3/2 sacks but only on special order. The model name is Max.


WHOA! This is some pretty important news! Can these be ordered at www.menssuitseparates.com or do you have to contact the factory?


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## Jovan

That is indeed important news. I'm not surprised they're not readily seen in the catalogue though.


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## maximar

filfoster said:


> WHOA! This is some pretty important news! Can these be ordered at www.menssuitseparates.com or do you have to contact the factory?


You can email menssuitseparates about it. That's where I found out. They sent me swatches after contacting them. The Max model has patch pockets.

It all a matter of trying an actual suit for size, for me.


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## andcounting

maximar said:


> You can email menssuitseparates about it. That's where I found out. They sent me swatches after contacting them. The Max model has patch pockets.
> 
> It all a matter of trying an actual suit for size, for me.


The thread lives on! Now who's gonna test the 3/2 for all to see?


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## filfoster

andcounting said:


> The thread lives on! Now who's gonna test the 3/2 for all to see?


Click....click....click....Uh oh. After three sportcoats and two suits, I'm out of ammo.


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## hockeyinsider

maximar said:


> You can email menssuitseparates about it. That's where I found out. They sent me swatches after contacting them. The Max model has patch pockets.
> 
> It all a matter of trying an actual suit for size, for me.


I wonder if you can customize it? I don't want patch pockets.


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## filfoster

Well, indeed the 3/2 sack, called 'Max' is available at www.menssuitseparates.com I received a reply to my email yesterday from Carl who confirms these can be ordered in any fabric on his site, with patch or set in lower pockets. The trousers are plain front 'Bond', cuffed or straight hemmed. Great news. I did not ask if there is a price difference but how much more could they be at this price point?


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## 127.72 MHz

maximar said:


> For the sake of mentioning, Hardwick makes 3/2 sacks but only on special order. The model name is Max.


Alright there you go. Now I'm going to have to call them and see about a 3/2 Harris. You guys,....:eek2:

But seriously, This kind of thing is very helpful, thanks filfoster.


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## Jovan

I wonder if Hardwick custom makes clothes for other companies.


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## 127.72 MHz

As has been mentioned I believe they make the jackets from the outdoors-man company Kevin's.


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## Bandit44

Jovan said:


> I wonder if Hardwick custom makes clothes for other companies.


Here's a jacket Hardwick made for Orvis.


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## nolan50410

I have a tan calvary twill SC made by Hardwick under their "Frank and Bill" label. Mine is a 3/2 with patch pockets and side vents. Just dropped it off for alterations. The Hardwick stuff is very roomy in the mid-section. Nothing a good tailor can't work around. I got my coat from Landry's in Oxford, MS. Not sure if Stan carries Hardwick stuff year round or if that was a seasonal thing only. Might be worth a call.


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## filfoster

Bandit44 said:


> Here's a jacket Hardwick made for Orvis.


There you go. Isn't it usually a good sign of quality if a maker does work for other reputable brands? I have the current Hardwick Harris Tweed sold on the menssuitseparates site and it's very nice. A little stiff but a nice jacket for the cost-less than $200 on sale.


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## Bandit44

^^^ The Harris Tweed and the camelhair are two jackets I'm interested in. Other than a 3/2 sack blazer I picked up recently on the cheap, I'm holding off on clothing purchases til I lose about 40 more pounds. I don't mind replacing my clothes, but I am praying that my shoes will still fit me.:icon_smile:


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## Jovan

Bandit44 said:


> Here's a jacket Hardwick made for Orvis.


I wonder why it's almost $500 though. Is it made to a higher standard than the things they usually resell? The Harris Tweed on Suitable Co. is $275 while the one on MensSuitSeparates.com is $209.



nolan50410 said:


> I have a tan calvary twill SC made by Hardwick under their "Frank and Bill" label. Mine is a 3/2 with patch pockets and side vents. Just dropped it off for alterations. The Hardwick stuff is very roomy in the mid-section. Nothing a good tailor can't work around. I got my coat from Landry's in Oxford, MS. Not sure if Stan carries Hardwick stuff year round or if that was a seasonal thing only. Might be worth a call.


Even more valuable information here -- they apparently have side vents available. I like this.



filfoster said:


> There you go. Isn't it usually a good sign of quality if a maker does work for other reputable brands? I have the current Hardwick Harris Tweed sold on the menssuitseparates site and it's very nice. A little stiff but a nice jacket for the cost-less than $200 on sale.


Imagine that in a 3/2 sack, people... *drool*


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## hockeyinsider

filfoster said:


> Well, indeed the 3/2 sack, called 'Max' is available at www.menssuitseparates.com I received a reply to my email yesterday from Carl who confirms these can be ordered in any fabric on his site, with patch or set in lower pockets. The trousers are plain front 'Bond', cuffed or straight hemmed. Great news. I did not ask if there is a price difference but how much more could they be at this price point?


Please let me know a price if you come across it.


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## filfoster

Original post by Jovan:
_*I wonder why it's almost $500 though. Is it made to a higher standard than the things they usually resell? The Harris Tweed on Suitable Co. is $275 while the one on MensSuitSeparates.com is $209.

*_The www.menssuitsseparates.com seems like a 'factory outlet' site which would make sense if the identical items on the Suitables site is more expensive. The Harris Tweed jacket is an example. 
I was going to purchase it on the Suitables site and accidently found the menssuitseparates site and noticed the considerable difference for what seems like the identical garment. 
Isn't it likely Orvis marks these up even further? I notice the tweed on the Orvis is a different one than the current black and white (a very basic one I wanted) on the Hardwick site.


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## filfoster

The Power of Ask Andy!
Here's the skinny from Carl at www.menssuitseparates.com

*"They charge a 50% up charge for special cuts, so you can add 50% to the price of what ever fabric pg you choose from. By the way, I already had a call from your ask andy ad. Thanks."

*Since Carl refers to Hardwick as 'they', I conclude this is not a 'factory direct' site after all but considerably better priced than some other ones. Just got the navy suit and the small tan checked sport coat today and they are as expected-just fine.

I don't think our posts are an 'ad' exactly, more of an endorsement and info sharing. I am an unlikely shill.


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## Jovan

Hrm... well, if any Ask Andy member wants to start their own "trad" line of clothing that is made in the USA and affordable, they may just be the people to manufacture it.


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## 127.72 MHz

filfoster said:


> The Power of Ask Andy!
> Here's the skinny from Carl at www.menssuitseparates.com
> 
> *"They charge a 50% up charge for special cuts, so you can add 50% to the price of what ever fabric pg you choose from. By the way, I already had a call from your ask andy ad. Thanks."
> 
> *Since Carl refers to Hardwick as 'they', I conclude this is not a 'factory direct' site after all but considerably better priced than some other ones. Just got the navy suit and the small tan checked sport coat today and they are as expected-just fine.
> 
> I don't think our posts are an 'ad' exactly, more of an endorsement and info sharing. I am an unlikely shill.


I'm the one who called Carl and I happened to mention that your thread was where I got the information on his business.
Carl is very helpful and I will be ordering a couple of 3/2 sport coats. I'm waiting for a bit more information that he intends to get from customer service at the factory and I'll place the order.

I must say I'm a bit surprised that he's able to offer the degree of variation he's able to on these very modestly priced garments.

About six weeks lead time isn't bad.

I have never owned a Gitman shirt but he seems to have pretty good prices. Any comments from those experienced in Gitman?


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## Bandit44

I love Gitman's Cambridge OCBD. The collar on it is lined, but I've been pleased with the heavy fabric and excellent construction of the shirts. I found mine on a big sale (discontinued tall version), but I'm not sure I'd choose to pay a retail price close to that of Mercer.


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## hockeyinsider

127.72 MHz said:


> About six weeks lead time isn't bad.


Six weeks for a 3/2 from Hardwick?


----------



## 127.72 MHz

^^ I think you're saying the six week wait, (given that it's a Hardwick) is excessive?

I'm looking at a Harris tweed sport coat that I will wear with chinos and denim. I can have them make all the pockets inset rather than the standard patch pockets and I'm waiting to find out if a few other details are possible. all for less than $300.-

This is the same Harris Tweed, although a different pattern, made by the exact same company that Orvis is selling in one of their current catalogs for $495.-

That's not too bad in my way of thinking.


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## Jovan

Didn't they say the upcharge would be 50% for a special order though? Still not a bad deal of course, but it doesn't sound like it will be less than $300.

At this price it will probably be fused, but I've seen better fused garments made in the USA than overseas in my experience. (Including A-L's blazer.)


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## filfoster

Even $350 is pretty good compared to many of the alternatives. 

PS Got the navy suit yesterday and wore it today and got many compliments on it.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

Jovan said:


> Didn't they say the upcharge would be 50% for a special order though? Still not a bad deal of course, but it doesn't sound like it will be less than $300.
> 
> At this price it will probably be fused, but I've seen better fused garments made in the USA than overseas in my experience. (Including A-L's blazer.)


I mis-spoke. It's a regular price of $209.- for the Harris Tweed black/white herringbone sport coat. (+) 50% up-charge of 105.- (rounded up) for a total of $314.-

I didn't even bother to ask if it's fused because there is no doubt in my mind that it is.

Speaking for us as a group, we're a pretty tough crowd by and large. From hockyinsider's comment I wonder if I said it's fully canvassed, fully custom fitted, (including airfare to TN. for the fittings) with surgeon's cuffs for $59.95 if someone might jump in and say, "$59.95 for a Hardwick?"

Jeeze guys $314.- for American made Harris Tweed with a few optional features seems like a fair deal to me.


----------



## Timeisaperception

This thread seems to have vanished without a trace before we could get your opinion on the coats you ordered!


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## hockeyinsider

Timeisaperception said:


> This thread seems to have vanished without a trace before we could get your opinion on the coats you ordered!


Or any photos.


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## Titus_A

For a new installment in the age-old saga of "How About Hardwick?" I ordered gray seersucker last night ($188, shipped). I will post a report, and hopefully a picture, when it comes in.


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## tallclay

A local shop here in Charlottesville happened to have a Hardwick seersucker suit in my size that was an unclaimed special order in the 3/2 sack ("Max") style. I picked it up at a good discount and just brought it home yesterday. If anyone is still interested in seeing what the Hardwick 3/2 jacket looks like, I'd be happy to post some photos.

I like the coat very much (especially for the price), but there are two things that stand out as somewhat unusual:

1. The lower patch pockets sit _very_ close to the bottom of the coat. If memory serves, there is probably less than an inch of space. I suppose that it could have something to do with the size of this particular coat (50XL) requiring a slightly lower placement of the pockets in order to maintain the desired proportions, but it could also just be a quirk of Hardwick's. If anyone else has a patch pocket coat or blazer from them, I'd be interested to know if your pockets are similarly situated.

2. The lapel roll on my coat seems lower than any of the other 3/2 configurations I own. Whereas my BB blazers and my Southwick suit all roll "through" the top buttonhole (if that makes any sense...), the Hardwick lapel rolls such that the first buttonhole lays flat on top of the lapel. Now, this jacket has been hanging on a rack for a year or so and as a result, it may simply need a gentle pressing. I would prefer it if the lapel eventually didn't roll quite so low. In my mind, it ought to terminate gracefully an inch or so above the second button.

Again, aside from these two points, I thought it was a good deal on a solidly-made suit. I'll take some photos when I get home this evening.


----------



## jwooten

tallclay said:


> A local shop here in Charlottesville happened to have a Hardwick seersucker suit in my size that was an unclaimed special order in the 3/2 sack ("Max") style. I picked it up at a good discount and just brought it home yesterday. If anyone is still interested in seeing what the Hardwick 3/2 jacket looks like, I'd be happy to post some photos.
> 
> I like the coat very much (especially for the price), but there are two things that stand out as somewhat unusual:
> 
> 1. The lower patch pockets sit _very_ close to the bottom of the coat. If memory serves, there is probably less than an inch of space. I suppose that it could have something to do with the size of this particular coat (50XL) requiring a slightly lower placement of the pockets in order to maintain the desired proportions, but it could also just be a quirk of Hardwick's. If anyone else has a patch pocket coat or blazer from them, I'd be interested to know if your pockets are similarly situated.
> 
> 2. The lapel roll on my coat seems lower than any of the other 3/2 configurations I own. Whereas my BB blazers and my Southwick suit all roll "through" the top buttonhole (if that makes any sense...), the Hardwick lapel rolls such that the first buttonhole lays flat on top of the lapel. Now, this jacket has been hanging on a rack for a year or so and as a result, it may simply need a gentle pressing. I would prefer it if the lapel eventually didn't roll quite so low. In my mind, it ought to terminate gracefully an inch or so above the second button.
> 
> Again, aside from these two points, I thought it was a good deal on a solidly-made suit. I'll take some photos when I get home this evening.


Please post some photos. And I think the lapel roll issues is related to it being seersucker vs a wool and how the fabric falls, but it could be designed this way. IMO, pressing the lapel straight(not sure on this terminology or if I can explain this), not pressing a roll, but steaming it in could help you achieve the look you want. (the following link explains what I mean.)

https://anaffordablewardrobe.blogspot.com/2010/01/hard-press-re-fitting-32-roll.html


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## tallclay

jwooten said:


> Please post some photos. And I think the lapel roll issues is related to it being seersucker vs a wool and how the fabric falls, but it could be designed this way. IMO, pressing the lapel straight(not sure on this terminology or if I can explain this), not pressing a roll, but steaming it in could help you achieve the look you want. (the following link explains what I mean.)
> 
> https://anaffordablewardrobe.blogspot.com/2010/01/hard-press-re-fitting-32-roll.html


Thanks for the link. I'll certainly give this a go after taking some photos.


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## filfoster

I have posted a pic of my two-button somewhere above in previous posts. 
Just want to add a testimonial for the surprising quality of these cheap suits. I have now worn two for almost a year, a basic navy and a charcoal, and they look great. I have gotten many compliments on them. I continue to rotate them among my BB and JAB suits, M-Thursday, Friday being the ubiquitous 'casual Friday' when I often wear a Hardwick sport coat or blazer.


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## hockeyinsider

tallclay said:


> A local shop here in Charlottesville happened to have a Hardwick seersucker suit in my size that was an unclaimed special order in the 3/2 sack ("Max") style. I picked it up at a good discount and just brought it home yesterday. If anyone is still interested in seeing what the Hardwick 3/2 jacket looks like, I'd be happy to post some photos.
> 
> I like the coat very much (especially for the price), but there are two things that stand out as somewhat unusual:
> 
> 1. The lower patch pockets sit _very_ close to the bottom of the coat. If memory serves, there is probably less than an inch of space. I suppose that it could have something to do with the size of this particular coat (50XL) requiring a slightly lower placement of the pockets in order to maintain the desired proportions, but it could also just be a quirk of Hardwick's. If anyone else has a patch pocket coat or blazer from them, I'd be interested to know if your pockets are similarly situated.
> 
> 2. The lapel roll on my coat seems lower than any of the other 3/2 configurations I own. Whereas my BB blazers and my Southwick suit all roll "through" the top buttonhole (if that makes any sense...), the Hardwick lapel rolls such that the first buttonhole lays flat on top of the lapel. Now, this jacket has been hanging on a rack for a year or so and as a result, it may simply need a gentle pressing. I would prefer it if the lapel eventually didn't roll quite so low. In my mind, it ought to terminate gracefully an inch or so above the second button.
> 
> Again, aside from these two points, I thought it was a good deal on a solidly-made suit. I'll take some photos when I get home this evening.


Lucky you, sir.

Yes, please do post some photos of it.


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## rl1856

How does the fit of the Hardwick suit compare to Brooksease ? A workaday 3/2 sack for less than $400 would be nice.

Thanks,

Ross


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## filfoster

rl1856 said:


> How does the fit of the Hardwick suit compare to Brooksease ? A workaday 3/2 sack for less than $400 would be nice.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ross


I wear suits every day, sitting at a desk but often meeting with customers out of my personal office/cubbyhole. These Hardwick suits look nice enough for 'business' wear.
For a 42L, the jackets are not quite as generous as the Brooksease. Still, they are comfortable and the scye (?-armhole) is not constricting , not too high or too small. I like the way they wear, keeping a decent shape and have a nice 'dead' knap, that I prefer. If you hold up a Hardwicke to a similar color Brooks, you will see that the Brooks is a finer, denser weave.
I have a fit issue, needing a 33" waist trouser for the 42L jacket so the 'separates' feature is ideal.


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## tallclay

I saw this thread today and remembered that I had promised some photos of my Hardwick 3/2 seersucker.


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## Topsider

^ Awesome. You're in C'ville, I see. Is that from Eljo's?


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## tallclay

^^^ Actually, it came from the Men's & Boy's Shop on the Downtown Mall. 

He's going to get a couple of poplins made for me in the same cut here in the next month or so. We're just waiting to get the latest fabric samples from Hardwick.


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## Tilton

I saw a Hardwick 3/2 roll madras jacket at GW this evening. Probably a 40 or 42. Had a small repair at the corner of the right pocket so I didn't pick it up for the Thrift Swap.


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## hockeyinsider

For the pricepoint of Hardwick, I am surprised Lands' End doesn't use them to make some made-in-America suits and odd jackets considering the whole "buy American" thing is the latest fad.

On another matter, I am disappointed that American Suit Store, one of the internet dealers of Hardwick, has not replied to multiple e-mail messages that I sent to enquire about what they sell.


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## frosejr

tallclay said:


> I saw this thread today and remembered that I had promised some photos of my Hardwick 3/2 seersucker.


That looks pretty nice. I imagine it was right about $200? Is it as well-made as it looks?


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## filfoster

hockeyinsider said:


> For the pricepoint of Hardwick, I am surprised Lands' End doesn't use them to make some made-in-America suits and odd jackets considering the whole "buy American" thing is the latest fad.
> 
> On another matter, I am disappointed that American Suit Store, one of the internet dealers of Hardwick, has not replied to multiple e-mail messages that I sent to enquire about what they sell.


Doesn't www.menssuitseparates.com have more Hardwick offerings at lower prices?


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## hockeyinsider

filfoster said:


> Doesn't www.menssuitseparates.com have more Hardwick offerings at lower prices?


Not sure, but I sent them an e-mail once and they didn't respond either. I tend not to patronize shopkeepers who do not respond to my enquiries. Pakeman Catto & Carter, the British retailer, has amazing offerings, but I've written them twice, including once by air mail, and they failed to respond.


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## andcounting

That suit looks great. I'm more interested than ever.


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## filfoster

hockeyinsider said:


> Not sure, but I sent them an e-mail once and they didn't respond either. I tend not to patronize shopkeepers who do not respond to my enquiries. Pakeman Catto & Carter, the British retailer, has amazing offerings, but I've written them twice, including once by air mail, and they failed to respond.


Carl at Menssuitseparates will respond within 24 hours. Try him again?


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## hockeyinsider

filfoster said:


> Carl at Menssuitseparates will respond within 24 hours. Try him again?


You aren't Carl, are you?


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## filfoster

hockeyinsider said:


> You aren't Carl, are you?


I'm sure he's much better looking and more dependable.

He was not immediate, but replied within a day, to my questions about the "Max" 3/2 option (discussed above) and the tuxedo options not shown on the menssuitseparates site. (There are other options, like DB).


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## hockeyinsider

filfoster said:


> I'm sure he's much better looking and more dependable.
> 
> He was not immediate, but replied within a day, to my questions about the "Max" 3/2 option (discussed above) and the tuxedo options not shown on the menssuitseparates site. (There are other options, like DB).


Can you do the "Max" 3/2 with side vents?


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## filfoster

hockeyinsider said:


> Can you do the "Max" 3/2 with side vents?


I can only make side vents with a pair of scissors, but email Carl and see what he says. My guess is that vents are not so flexible as the 3/2 roll, but who knows?


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## nerdykarim

I'm thinking about taking the plunge and starting a Hardwick-manufactured line of relatively inexpensive trad suits and sportcoats. They'll either be in one of their traditional sack models (like the "Max") or in a completely custom model that tweaks the "Max" to make it even more desirable. The upside for everyone is that you'll have access to sack suits without paying the 50% upcharge because I'll be buying them in bulk.

I have an appointment at the factory in a few weeks to examine the models in person and will know a lot more about what I'm planning on doing after that.

I may post updates in this thread sporadically until I launch (if everything works out). Until then, feel free to PM me with ideas, requests, preferences, etc. etc.


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## hockeyinsider

nerdykarim said:


> I'm thinking about taking the plunge and starting a Hardwick-manufactured line of relatively inexpensive trad suits and sportcoats. They'll either be in one of their traditional sack models (like the "Max") or in a completely custom model that tweaks the "Max" to make it even more desirable. The upside for everyone is that you'll have access to sack suits without paying the 50% upcharge because I'll be buying them in bulk.
> 
> I have an appointment at the factory in a few weeks to examine the models in person and will know a lot more about what I'm planning on doing after that.
> 
> I may post updates in this thread sporadically until I launch (if everything works out). Until then, feel free to PM me with ideas, requests, preferences, etc. etc.


I recall speaking with the chief executive officer of a leading suit manufacturer a few months ago and he told me nobody wants three-roll-two jackets. I kindly said that's because most customers, or would-be customers, don't know what it is and therefore have no opinion on the matter. I'm convinced that an updated three-roll-two with darts and side vents would sell with little to no objections except from the hardcore 0.05% of customers that are self-described traditionalists and insist on three-two-roll jackets with a hook vent and no darts.


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## rl1856

hockeyinsider said:


> I'm convinced that an updated three-roll-two with darts and side vents would sell with little to no objections except from the hardcore 0.05% of customers that are self-described traditionalists and insist on three-two-roll jackets with a hook vent and no darts.


Wouldn't such a suit be considered a modified english type of cut ? If so it is readily available. Heck, I've seen what looks like this cut in a Men's Warehouse commercial and in a JosABank catalog.

If you are going to trouble of creating a custom line just to get a correct 3r2 why not offer dartless with a hook vent ?

Best,

Ross


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## steve2318

*Hardwick Soft Coat*

Does anybody have any experience with the Hardwick Bill Soft Coat? Looking for a casual sportcoat for the spring/summer months and I am curious as to the quality/fit of this model. Thanks in advance for any help.

[url]https://www.americansuitstore.com/Casual-Soft-Coat-p/0062bil.htm?CartID=2

[/URL]


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## nerdykarim

I have a feeling that may be based on a similar model. If you get a chance to check it out in person, please let me know what you think (specifically with regard to the shoulders, lapel roll, and the size of the arm hole).

I'm interested in that model as well, though, and will specifically ask about it when I visit the factory in early May.


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## Bandit44

Offer extra long coats & I'll be interested.


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## hockeyinsider

steve2318 said:


> Does anybody have any experience with the Hardwick Bill Soft Coat? Looking for a casual sportcoat for the spring/summer months and I am curious as to the quality/fit of this model. Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> [url]https://www.americansuitstore.com/Casual-Soft-Coat-p/0062bil.htm?CartID=2
> 
> [/URL]


Based on several Ask Andy members reporting negative experiences with American Suit Store, I would advise you to exercise caution.


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## Jovan

steve2318 said:


> Does anybody have any experience with the Hardwick Bill Soft Coat? Looking for a casual sportcoat for the spring/summer months and I am curious as to the quality/fit of this model. Thanks in advance for any help.
> 
> https://www.americansuitstore.com/Casual-Soft-Coat-p/0062bil.htm?CartID=2


Yeah, I wouldn't purchase from them based on what I heard. Someone who can't even pay their f***ing advertising invoice? Come on!

This website also has it for a lower price:


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## hockeyinsider

Jovan said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't purchase from them based on what I heard. Someone who can't even pay their f***ing advertising invoice? Come on![/URL]


Let alone respond to prospective customer enquiries


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## rl1856

I purchased a Hardwick Navy Poplin as a result of this thread. I contacted the wholesale rep for my region and asked for a referral to a shop that was local to me. He responded promptly with several choices. I stopped in and spoke with the manager who then called Hardwick and ordered the suit I wanted. I chose the Doyle cut, which is 2 button, with plain front trousers. Cost was higher than American Suite Store and Mens Suit Separates, but alterations were included which accounted for about half of the difference, with the rest being an acceptable premium for shopping locally. 

The suit arrived a few days ago, and I went in for a fitting earlier today. Fit and size are just slightly slimmer than Brooks Ease. Shoulder slope is moderate and the chest piece does not seem to be built up. Fabric seems like it will wear well. Color is darker than other Navy Poplins I have seen. Quality seems to be about the same as Haspel. I will pick it up next Thursday and probably wear it to a spring cocktail party Friday night. I will be interested to see how it "wears" and feels over the course of a few hours. I realize that a poplin is not the same as a worsted wool suit, but I wanted to get a feel for their cut and quality. After I see how the poplin does next week, I may seek a worsted suit or 2. If so, I will special order their Max 3r2 model.


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## hockeyinsider

rl1856 said:


> I purchased a Hardwick Navy Poplin as a result of this thread. I contacted the wholesale rep for my region and asked for a referral to a shop that was local to me. He responded promptly with several choices. I stopped in and spoke with the manager who then called Hardwick and ordered the suit I wanted. I chose the Doyle cut, which is 2 button, with plain front trousers. Cost was higher than American Suite Store and Mens Suit Separates, but alterations were included which accounted for about half of the difference, with the rest being an acceptable premium for shopping locally.
> 
> The suit arrived a few days ago, and I went in for a fitting earlier today. Fit and size are just slightly slimmer than Brooks Ease. Shoulder slope is moderate and the chest piece does not seem to be built up. Fabric seems like it will wear well. Color is darker than other Navy Poplins I have seen. Quality seems to be about the same as Haspel. I will pick it up next Thursday and probably wear it to a spring cocktail party Friday night. I will be interested to see how it "wears" and feels over the course of a few hours. I realize that a poplin is not the same as a worsted wool suit, but I wanted to get a feel for their cut and quality. After I see how the poplin does next week, I may seek a worsted suit or 2. If so, I will special order their Max 3r2 model.


Is it fully lined?


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## rl1856

hockeyinsider said:


> Is it fully lined?


Jacket- Yes
Trousers- No

Comfortable to wear. Some structure and padding to the upper body/ shoulders but not enough to attract attention or affect movement.

Wore it for the first time last Friday night, with a white BB BD and an old madras bow tie. I received several compliments.

Recommended for the price.

As stated earlier, I will probably try a 3/2 sack next and see how it works out.


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## tallclay

frosejr said:


> That looks pretty nice. I imagine it was right about $200? Is it as well-made as it looks?


I paid $230 for it. Based on my understanding of Hardwick's special order pricing, I'm guessing that it would have retailed at $325 or so.

As for the construction, I'm very happy with it--particularly at that price. The lining is very tidy and I can discern no flaws with the construction. The lapel issue I mentioned earlier did resolve itself after a few minutes on the ironing board and the resulting roll is quite nice. I'm still not sure why the patch pockets are so low, though. It bugs my eye enough that I'm considering having them either re-sewn a little higher up on the body or made about an inch shorter.


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## tallclay

*Is "Max" still available?*

I went back to the shop where I bought the seersucker to special order a couple of poplin suits in the same "Max" style. Much to my dismay, the owner told me that Hardwick no longer offered the cut, even as a special order. It was unclear whether the factory "would not" or "could not" produce a 3/2, but I was told that they had switched over to making only 2-button coats.

Something doesn't sound right about this to me. I can't think of a single reason that a factory could only make darted coats with two buttons, but maybe I'm wrong...

I emailed Carl at Men's Suit Separates to get his take on the matter and to see if I could order the style directly through him.

Anyone else encounter difficulty finding or buying a "Max" coat or suit lately?


----------



## hockeyinsider

tallclay said:


> I went back to the shop where I bought the seersucker to special order a couple of poplin suits in the same "Max" style. Much to my dismay, the owner told me that Hardwick no longer offered the cut, even as a special order. It was unclear whether the factory "would not" or "could not" produce a 3/2, but I was told that they had switched over to making only 2-button coats.
> 
> Something doesn't sound right about this to me. I can't think of a single reason that a factory could only make darted coats with two buttons, but maybe I'm wrong...
> 
> I emailed Carl at Men's Suit Separates to get his take on the matter and to see if I could order the style directly through him.
> 
> Anyone else encounter difficulty finding or buying a "Max" coat or suit lately?


I'm calling Hardwick directly.


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## tallclay

I heard back from Carl at MSS this morning and he assures me that the Max remains available as a special order for the same 50% premium.


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## Bandit44

tallclay said:


> I heard back from Carl at MSS this morning and he assures me that the Max remains available as a special order for the same 50% premium.


Hopefully Carl will continue to get business from trads and will continue to keep prices reasonable.


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## nerdykarim

I'm moving forward with my plan to start a line of RTW trad suits/sportcoats and visited the Hardwick factory in TN today. I thought y'all might like a little photo tour:

This is the office area that you see as you enter the warehouse. I wish I would have taken a better picture of the inventory warehouse, just to give y'all an idea of how large it is. 









This is the end of one rack of uniforms for a major airline.









This torso form happened to be near the entrance of the warehouse.









All Hardwick operations are done in this building. This is what you see when you go from the warehouse to the manufacturing room.









This is a Gerber cutting machine; all the cutting is done electronically.









This is what the pattern looks like on paper. I think the rep said they get about 88% efficiency on the cloth.









Some of the cloth belongs to corporate clients (like the aforementioned airline) that do their own sourcing but most of it belongs to Hardwick.









And these last two pics are from the meeting room where we talked business after the tour.


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## tallclay

^Wow, that's exciting news!

It's obviously still very early in the process, but can you share with us any details about what you're considering? 

Congratulations, and best of luck!


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## nerdykarim

tallclay said:


> It's obviously still very early in the process, but can you share with us any details about what you're considering?


So many details are still up in the air, but I'd like to go to market in the fall with a brown h'bone sportcoat, a gray worsted suit, and a navy blazer in a slightly-tweaked version of the "Max" model.


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## Bandit44

Hope you consider stocking extra long sizes; I'd be a customer of yours.


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## DoghouseReilly

Keep us updated, Nerdy. I like the idea.


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## nerdykarim

Also, for those that haven't seen it, this video shows the inside of the Hardwick factory much better than my photos do. (It's a promotional video for a company that targets Hardwick's in-stock line to American funeral directors.)


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## nerdykarim

I got my hands on a Hardwick Max this afternoon and thought I'd throw a pic on this thread for all the Hardwick enthusiasts.

It's a 42L, so it's too big for my torso form (but it's the only Max they had in stock; if I were to order a 38 or 40, I'd have to wait 10 weeks (and I don't have that kind of time!)


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## DoghouseReilly

Nice looking seersucker!


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## hockeyinsider

nerdykarim said:


> I got my hands on a Hardwick Max this afternoon and thought I'd throw a pic on this thread for all the Hardwick enthusiasts.
> 
> It's a 42L, so it's too big for my torso form (but it's the only Max they had in stock; if I were to order a 38 or 40, I'd have to wait 10 weeks (and I don't have that kind of time!)


Is that shoulder padding in the shoulders? I can't believe it takes them 10 weeks to get a custom order turned around.


----------



## nerdykarim

hockeyinsider said:


> Is that shoulder padding in the shoulders?


This is the Max shoulder:









And this is the shoulder of another model that I hope to work with Hardwick to tweak a little bit and bring to market as a 3/2 sack:











hockeyinsider said:


> I can't believe it takes them 10 weeks to get a custom order turned around.


The factory manufactures a lot of different types of things in addition to suits (uniforms for governments and private companies, for example) and it would set back a lot of their other work if they allowed one-offs to be added anywhere in the production process. That's my understanding for the 10 week quote, at least.


----------



## tocqueville

So what do we think of this shoulder? Is this typical for a cheap suit? Is it good? Well constructed? Poorly constructed? It doesn't look great on the mannequin, but that's not the samething as a person with real shoulders and arms.



nerdykarim said:


> This is the Max shoulder:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the shoulder of another model that I hope to work with Hardwick to tweak a little bit and bring to market as a 3/2 sack:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The factory manufactures a lot of different types of things in addition to suits (uniforms for governments and private companies, for example) and it would set back a lot of their other work if they allowed one-offs to be added anywhere in the production process. That's my understanding for the 10 week quote, at least.


----------



## nerdykarim

tocqueville said:


> So what do we think of this shoulder? Is this typical for a cheap suit? Is it good? Well constructed? Poorly constructed? It doesn't look great on the mannequin, but that's not the samething as a person with real shoulders and arms.


I'm not sure if this is referenced to me or to the forum, but here are some of my candid, personal thoughts re the shoulder on the Max model:

a) The product is pretty good. If you consider the MSRP and the fact that it's made in the USA, it's a a _phenomenal _value.
b) The shoulders are a little wide. On the Max, I get about 19.25" from shoulder to shoulder across the back. On a sack, I think a 42 should probably measure 18.5" across the shoulders. For reference, Lands' End Traditional is 19.0" and Lands' End Tailored is 18.5" on a 42. To clarify, I'm not advocating for a super slim fit in the chest or through the body, but I think that lightly padded or totally natural jackets look much better with a slightly smaller shoulder measurement.
c) Relative to both vintage Brooks Brothers and current Southwick/Brooks Brothers, the Max is not overly structured at the shoulder. My personal taste (and the taste of many people on AAAT, I believe) is for a totally natural shoulder, which is pretty uncommon, outside of the Italian stuff like Attolini and PZ Sartoriale, for example (in my experience).


----------



## Bandit44

Karim, this continues to sound exciting. You obviously understand the design elements of a sack coat well enough to compare what Hardwick currently offers and what the trad fellow desires (or can live with for a reasonable price). There are always going to be those that expect a Norman Hilton clone for $200, but I'd say you are on the right track. Like others here, I'd prefer the softest shoulders possible, but as long as they are comparable to Southwick or BB, I'm on board.


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## nerdykarim

Thanks for the kind words.

Just to be clear, at this point, I think the model that I'm going to use as my starting point isn't the Max but the navy model pictured above with the totally natural shoulder.


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## TheGreatTwizz

Do you happen to own that 42L yellow jacket? If so, whats the length from BOC?


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## nerdykarim

TheGreatTwizz said:


> Do you happen to own that 42L yellow jacket? If so, whats the length from BOC?


I measure 32.75" from the BOC on that 42L Max suit jacket.


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## tocqueville

nerdykarim said:


> I'm not sure if this is referenced to me or to the forum, but here are some of my candid, personal thoughts re the shoulder on the Max model:
> 
> a) The product is pretty good. If you consider the MSRP and the fact that it's made in the USA, it's a a _phenomenal _value.
> b) The shoulders are a little wide. On the Max, I get about 19.25" from shoulder to shoulder across the back. On a sack, I think a 42 should probably measure 18.5" across the shoulders. For reference, Lands' End Traditional is 19.0" and Lands' End Tailored is 18.5" on a 42. To clarify, I'm not advocating for a super slim fit in the chest or through the body, but I think that lightly padded or totally natural jackets look much better with a slightly smaller shoulder measurement.
> c) Relative to both vintage Brooks Brothers and current Southwick/Brooks Brothers, the Max is not overly structured at the shoulder. My personal taste (and the taste of many people on AAAT, I believe) is for a totally natural shoulder, which is pretty uncommon, outside of the Italian stuff like Attolini and PZ Sartoriale, for example (in my experience).


I wear a 42s and have been watching eBay a lot lately. Why are most of the 42s in eBay listed as having 20" shoulder measurements if, according to you, they should be 19" or less? Is this because the suits I'm seeing for sale are old models?


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## hookem12387

tocqueville said:


> I wear a 42s and have been watching eBay a lot lately. Why are most of the 42s in eBay listed as having 20" shoulder measurements if, according to you, they should be 19" or less? Is this because the suits I'm seeing for sale are old models?


From what I can tell, it varies brand to brand and current-in-vogue-style to current---. Also, people seem to just like to wear their clothes too big half the time, it seems


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## nerdykarim

tocqueville said:


> I wear a 42s and have been watching eBay a lot lately. Why are most of the 42s in eBay listed as having 20" shoulder measurements if, according to you, they should be 19" or less? Is this because the suits I'm seeing for sale are old models?


I may have been imprecise in my earlier post. When I said that a 42 should measure 18.5" across the shoulders, I was speaking normatively; I think that soft-shouldered 42's _should _be at 18.5 (or maybe 19) inches across the shoulder based on what I think is proportional to that particular chest size. 20" strikes me as way too large.


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## rbstc123

I had the pleasure of meeting with Karim last night over a few beers. He brought the blue model (seen above) for me to try on as it is my size. I agree with Karim regarding his preferred modifications. Overall, the jacket is a very comfortable fit and it is a quality jacket for the price. 

Karim's unrelenting attention to Trad preference and detail is driving this project in the right direction. I can't wait to see the finished product.

Keep up the good work sir.


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## tocqueville

Would any of you Hardwick suit wearers be so kind as to check out my post and comment on your Hardwicks and where they fit in compared to other sub-$500 suits? Thank you.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...rarchy-of-sub-500-suits&p=1299221#post1299221


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## nerdykarim

tocqueville said:


> Would any of you Hardwick suit wearers be so kind as to check out my post and comment on your Hardwicks and where they fit in compared to other sub-$500 suits? Thank you.
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...rarchy-of-sub-500-suits&p=1299221#post1299221


I'll take a look over there in the next day or two.

I just got off the phone with Hardwick; it seems like it's not profitable for them to make the design tweaks I'd need them to make in order for me to be comfortable starting a line, so I've scrapped the project (and I'll be a disinterested party in the hierarchy thread).


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## tocqueville

Thumbs up on the poplin? I badly need another summer suit and like the price of the hardwick.


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## nerdykarim

tocqueville said:


> Thumbs up on the poplin? I badly need another summer suit and like the price of the hardwick.


I'll preface this by saying that I'm no longer a disinterested party (until things change again). I'm back to working with Hardwick, except now I'm working with the Max model instead of the softer cotton poplin model that I was interested in before and I'm looking at a S/S '13 launch instead of a F/W '12 launch. I bought one for myself just this morning, actually, so I'd have one to review that wasn't a 42L. It should be here in 8-10 weeks. So, with the "interested party" disclosure behind me:

The cotton poplin jacket above is the "Frank and Bill" jacket. It's not part of a suit. The fit is good, but not great. The shoulders are a little broad and the armhole is a little on the large side. Basically, it's cut like most other American RTW. I was hoping to change this a little bit but the factory isn't able to do it for an order at my scale (aka: small startup). That said, the product is still quite nice. This product is cut slightly differently than the Max model (which is a suit, not an odd jacket) and I still haven't been able to get a real good look at the Max since the one they sent me was such an odd size, it was hard to really evaluate. Here are a few more pics of the Frank and Bill jacket.



















If you're interested in ordering a Max suit in that cotton poplin fabric, I say, "give it a shot." My pics above should give you a pretty good indication of what the fabric is like. I like it a lot. I've got a couple of the Frank and Bill jackets in my possession until around Tuesday. If you'd like any more pics or anything, just let me know this weekend.

If you can hold out until next spring, you can buy one from me. I guarantee you better customer service than any other Hardwick retailer on the block 

Hope that helps a little bit.


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## Topsider

^ Count me in.


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