# Pardon this ebay Rant!



## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

I was reading about forum members frustrations with ebay and it got me all worked up about my recent experiences. 

It seems like Ebay has decided to lean everything to the buyer's favor (full disclosure I sell a lot on ebay, but I also buy a lot). It has become increasingly clear that what ebay wants is sellers to offer returns and to take anything back whether it's appropriate or not. This seems to have changed I the lady year. 

Case(s) in point: 

I sold a NEW Burberry glen plaid. I described it as brown glen plaid with multi color accents. I took MANY high definition photos. Including a super close up that showed the color very accurately and the other colors of the glen plaid. The buyer, a Doctor in California, wanted to return it. He said the pictures made it look darker than it was. He said he thought it was golden brown. But, according to the buyer it was lighter in color in person and it too closely matched the color of another glen plaid SC he already had. My listing said NO RETURNS ACCEPTED. Perhaps this isn't the best business practice, but the buyer was warned. If you buy this you cannot return it. 

So, he filed a item not as described case. I responded with pictures, and the description. They found in his favor. That upsets me, but what really burns me, is that ebay is strong-arming me now. They are saying, we found against you and I have to provide a refund. BUT, in their graciousness, they will close the case without finding me at fault IF I forego my appeal and SEND REFUND NOW! So, in other words, you can appeal, we found against you once, but, we won't hold it against you if you just give in and pay BEFORE I get the SC back. 

In another case, I sold a shirt on a Friday. The buyer paid that night. I got the shirt ready to ship Saturday morning and it went out the same day. The buyer files a case Monday morning that he hasn't received his item. I sent a response with tracking information. The item was delivered that afternoon. I sent another response that the item was delivered. The Buyer sent positive feedback the same day! The buyer never responded to the case. I waited a few days and asked ebay to escalate the case. They did and decided to issue a refund! 

Finally, I sold a shirt (also new tags) and the buyer wanted a refund because there was a cut in it. I asked him for pictures of the damage and it was indeed cut. BUT, the place where it was cut was exactly where I had zoomed in to show the tag. The photo proved there was no cut when I sent it. I emailed the buyer and asked him how he opened the padded envelope with scissors or a knife. He said he used scissors and he had a hard time opening it because it was too tightly packed. I explained all this to ebay and showed my close up pics and how he must have cut it when opening the package. They found against me AND ISSUED A REFUND! 


This is getting very frustrating. I guess I should just raise the prices and offer returns. I have over 1000 transactions and only a handful of cases, so the volume of problems is tiny. but the way they treat sellers sure has changed!


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Wait until this Christmas for more nightmares. To maintain Top Rated Plus seller status you have to offer 30-day returns during the Christmas months.


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## style417 (Jun 28, 2014)

This is why I gave up on ebay many years ago. I never sell there any more and almost never buy there. Now that I've found AAAC, I'd rather deal direct with folks when possible.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

Ive done the eBay thing for quite some time, starting out selling music collectibles some years ago. I used to do a lot. Now I do very little. I think eBay as a concept is well past its peak for people like you and me, the casual seller. Fraud and exploitation first ruined it for buyers, which resulted in the current set of policies geared very far in favor of the buyer. The pendulum is swinging in favor of many who recognize this imbalance and are using to their advantage. I've had experiences recently, where buyers allow no time at all before they are clamoring for tracking and updates, filing claims within mere days, etc. I haven't lost a case, but this development makes eBay an increasingly unattractive option. It does not surprise me that despite best evidence, the innocent party loses, as happened in your case. But, expand your options. Don't rely on just one single avenue for selling, if that is what you enjoy doing, sayeth I.

Sent from the ionosphere.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

The OP is dead-on right: eBay wants all sellers to offer returns and "free" shipping (which of course is not free, it's built into the selling price). For hobbyists such as myself, offering returns just isn't an option. I'll quit selling entirely before I'll do that. I'd have to jack prices, I'm guessing, at least 30 percent to cover the clowns who buy stuff on whims knowing they can return it if it doesn't look as good to them sober as when they placed their bid. I'll likely hold on as long as I can, but the day is coming when small timers are all going to migrate to Etsy, TOF and places like the thrift exchange. And that's not good for buyers in the long run.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Ebay is imperfect. It's just part of the cost of doing business.

A number of times I've purchased items only to have the completely wrong item show up. Not defective, but just flat out wrong item (e.g. the listing said it was a 16/33, pictured a 16/33, and a 15/32 showed up). Same thing happens each time: I open a case with ebay, the seller offers a refund, but guess who gets stuck paying the return shipping fees?

Some more nuanced cases have happened recently, such as one time I purchased a watch band that the listing indicated measured 19mm. It arrived, it measured 20mm and didn't fit on my watch with 19mm lugs. I messaged the seller and he informed me he didn't take returns and the manufacturer's description indicated it was a 19mm band. I sent him back pictures showing that it measured 20mm, but he didn't buy it. I opened a case with ebay and they found in his favor.

Am I giving up on ebay? No, it's still mostly useful. I both sell and buy on there and every now and then I have to bite the bullet, but it evens out.

Man up.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

L-feld said:


> Ebay is imperfect. It's just part of the cost of doing business.
> 
> A number of times I've purchased items only to have the completely wrong item show up. Not defective, but just flat out wrong item (e.g. the listing said it was a 16/33, pictured a 16/33, and a 15/32 showed up). Same thing happens each time: I open a case with ebay, the seller offers a refund, but guess who gets stuck paying the return shipping fees?
> 
> ...


Man up? You obviously have never had the pleasure of having your PP account frozen, or losing a shirt to a buyer who claims it was never received or any other number of things that happen to honest sellers when buyers take advantage of a stacked deck. As for paying for return shipping when the seller has made an error, you should never do that. I never have, and I have returned stuff that was not as advertised. Sellers are loathe to get bad feedback and most will do whatever it takes to avoid that. Most recently, I returned two record albums that were graded "excellent," meaning there should be few if any audible scratches. There were more than a few. I insisted on a full refund, including return shipping, and I got it. There is no reason why a buyer should be out a single nickel if a seller screws up. I've also screwed up as a seller, once sending the wrong athletic jersey to a buyer. I gave him a full refund, let him keep the jersey I had originally sent and also sent out the jersey I was supposed to have sent in the first place. That's part of being a honest seller.

There is a difference between manning up and bending over. I'm not keen on doing the latter.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

I have to agree somewhat with L-Feld. I transact business as a buyer and seller on eBay and can affirm that they do not always side with the buyer.

Case in point: I bought what was purported to be a genuine antique Christopher Dresser vase from a seller in England. I asked multiple questions of the seller and was told it was indeed genuine. Bidding for this item was not low.

Once it finally arrived, I had suspicions that it was not genuine and consulted a nationally renowned pottery expert, who appears regularly on Antiques Roadshow. This dealer said it was not genuine, but an Asian copy.

I presented this evidence to the seller who reluctantly agreed to a refund upon receipt of the vase. So I packed it up carefully and mailed it back to England.

After weeks of waiting, the seller claimed he never received the vase. I opened a case against the seller, but eBay denied my refund.

I called eBay and ranted to no avail.

A week or so after my last contact with eBay, guess what arrived at my door? The vase, returned in my packaging, with a "return to sender" sticker on it because the seller failed to bother to pick the package up from his local Post Office.

Even with that evidence, eBay refused to provide a refund to me, because my case against the seller had expired due to the length of time since I opened it.

Since I opened my eBay account in 1999, I've had only a few instances of transactions gone wrong. No one has yet to ask me for a refund on an item I sold, knock on wood.

You win some, you lose some.

Anyone want to buy an imitation Christopher Dresser vase?


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## marinephil (Jun 30, 2013)

I agree that you just have to understand it's now part of doing business, and that it's not as carefree as it used to be.

However, quick ebay story of my own. I had a guy buy a PRL flannel shirt on a Wednesday. I got it shipped out on Friday (my ad listed 2-3 days for processing). He frantically contacts me Friday asking where the shirt is. Before I even read his message and was able to reply with tracking info, he has left me negative feedback stating that I ripped him off and never sent the shirt. The shirt arrives Monday and I immediately follow up with him, hoping he will change his feedback or at least have it removed. He then admits that he really wanted to wear the shirt on his weekend trip, and he was pissed that he didn't have it by Saturday, but it didn't matter because "it was way too big anyway". This really ticked me off because I said in the ad that it was a large shirt, but please use the measurements I took. I had opened a case with ebay about the feedback and they "closed" it once he said he got the shirt, but I'm still left with the negative feedback!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

gamma68 said:


> Anyone who has had his PayPal account frozen is obviously doing something wrong.


Didn't you claim to have placed 32rnr on 'ignore'? :devil:


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

gamma68 said:


> Anyone who has had his PayPal account frozen is obviously doing something wrong.


1) Oh god, not this again

2) Don't you have his posts hidden anyway?

3) Actually PayPal has a history of freezing accounts undeservedly and seemingly at random.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Reuben said:


> Actually PayPal has a history of freezing accounts undeservedly and seemingly at random.


Never had my PayPal account frozen. Perhaps I am just lucky.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

gamma68 said:


> Never had my PayPal account frozen. Perhaps I am just lucky.


Me neither, and I don't think it's common, I just know it's happened before. There've been some cases where they drained the connected bank account as well before freezing the PayPal account but they may have changed their policy after the terrible press that caused.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Reuben said:


> Me neither, and I don't think it's common, I just know it's happened before. There've been some cases where they drained the connected bank account as well before freezing the PayPal account but they may have changed their policy after the terrible press that caused.


In that case, glad they don't do that anymore.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

gamma68 said:


> I have to agree somewhat with L-Feld. I transact business as a buyer and seller on eBay and can affirm that they do not always side with the buyer.
> 
> Case in point: I bought what was purported to be a genuine antique Christopher Dresser vase from a seller in England. I asked multiple questions of the seller and was told it was indeed genuine. Bidding for this item was not low.
> 
> ...


Did you escalate or did you stick with the first person you got on the phone? I've had luck by asking to speak with supervisors if the first person I speak with doesn't make sense. I've found that telephoning usually meets with more success than trying to resolve something via email and messages. It takes a bit of time and it can be frustrating, but you're more apt to get justice. After the last snafu, eBay actually gave me a $75 credit to spend on anything I wanted to make up for my time and the trouble I'd gone through--it was a shipping screwup, the details of which aren't necessarily important. Let's just say it started with "it's all your fault, there's nothing we can do" to "here's $75, please go away." It wasn't easy--two hours of my life that I'll never get back. But I've learned that if you are persistent and--critically, in the right--that you can sometimes get some measure of justice.

I'm very wary of buying anything overseas on eBay. I've done it exactly twice, once it worked out, another time it did not. There are just too many variables involved, including the vagaries of international shipping. I'd also be wary of buying any sort of antique or collectible on eBay. I'm currently watching several auctions for historic documents (it's for a project, not a purchase) and it is weird to say the least. Why anyone would pay tens of thousands of dollars for a letter supposedly signed by Abraham Lincoln or whoever without personally examining it, I don't know.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

I agree they don't always side with the buyer. I sold a bulova Harley Davidson watch and provided measurements because it had been sized. The buyer filed a case because it didn't fit and he claimed it was a woman's watch. Luckily, the watch had a serial number and I found it on a bulova website where it specifically listed it as a mans. The found in my favor. 

I have also made a mistake and immediately addressed it when the buyer emailed me. I sold two Ralph Lauren jackets one 48L and one 50R. I forgot to change the item specifics and the 50R listing said 48L. I took it back, full refund and paid for shipping. That was the ONLY proper thing to do. A seller once sent me the wrong shoes and when I emailed him, he told me to keep the wrong ones and he issued a full refund. In 1000 transactions, I have made a few mistakes. But, when it's my fault, I always take care of it. 

The he situations I referenced were not my fault. My point was I think there has been a shift recently in Ebay's attitude. And I do think this new attitude coincided with the new Top Rated Seller standards.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

Just sold some shoes. Couldn't ship quickly enough for the seller. Claim. I updated with tracking and a note of apology. Still no matter. Usps delivered. Still no matter. It's the buyers game. Paypal will not release your funds to you until the buyer decides to close the case. Thats it.

As far as a wholesale "freezing" of an account, i'd say thats pretty drastic. I havent heard of that.


Sent from the ionosphere.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Reuben said:


> Me neither, and I don't think it's common, I just know it's happened before. There've been some cases where they drained the connected bank account as well before freezing the PayPal account but they may have changed their policy after the terrible press that caused.


Mrs. 32 has also had her PayPal account frozen, and I know for sure that she didn't do anything wrong. There was quite a lot of publicity about this. And let's remember: eBay and PP are actually one and the same. If they were not, you'd be able to make payment arrangements outside of PP, and not just in theory.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I agree they don't always side with the buyer. I sold a bulova Harley Davidson watch and provided measurements because it had been sized. The buyer filed a case because it didn't fit and he claimed it was a woman's watch. Luckily, the watch had a serial number and I found it on a bulova website where it specifically listed it as a mans. The found in my favor.
> 
> I have also made a mistake and immediately addressed it when the buyer emailed me. I sold two Ralph Lauren jackets one 48L and one 50R. I forgot to change the item specifics and the 50R listing said 48L. I took it back, full refund and paid for shipping. That was the ONLY proper thing to do. A seller once sent me the wrong shoes and when I emailed him, he told me to keep the wrong ones and he issued a full refund. In 1000 transactions, I have made a few mistakes. But, when it's my fault, I always take care of it.
> 
> The he situations I referenced were not my fault. My point was I think there has been a shift recently in Ebay's attitude. And I do think this new attitude coincided with the new Top Rated Seller standards.


How much of a difference does Top Rated Seller make anyway? I never pay attention to that when I make purchases, and I'm not about to do things the eBay way at detriment to myself so I can get a digital version of a gold star.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

You guys wait up... I am going to go make some popcorn. This is good!


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> How much of a difference does Top Rated Seller make anyway? I never pay attention to that when I make purchases, and I'm not about to do things the eBay way at detriment to myself so I can get a digital version of a gold star.


I could give a rats hairy behind about the gold star. However, Top Rated seller status does give you significant shipping discounts.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

drlivingston said:


> You guys wait up... I am going to go make some popcorn. This is good!


I prefer my popcorn eaten with Milk Duds. It turns into carmel corn inside your mouth.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

drlivingston said:


> I could give a rats hairy behind about the gold star. However, Top Rated seller status does give you significant shipping discounts.


Ah. I still do it the old-fashioned way, by going to the post office, even though it would be cheaper to print my own labels.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Monocle said:


> Just sold some shoes. Couldn't ship quickly enough for the seller. Claim. I updated with tracking and a note of apology. Still no matter. Usps delivered. Still no matter. It's the buyers game. Paypal will not release your funds to you until the buyer decides to close the case. Thats it.
> 
> As far as a wholesale "freezing" of an account, i'd say thats pretty drastic. I havent heard of that.
> 
> Sent from the ionosphere.


You do have to ship within the specified time or you are asking for trouble. You just have to assume that everyone you deal with on eBay is an unreasonable idiot or conniving to take advantage of you.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> You do have to ship within the specified time or you are asking for trouble. You just have to assume that everyone you deal with on eBay is an unreasonable idiot or conniving to take advantage of you.


Oh I agree, wholeheartedly. And I do. And they are. It's just that one time you don't...

Sent from the ionosphere.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

32rollandrock said:


> Did you escalate or did you stick with the first person you got on the phone? I've had luck by asking to speak with supervisors if the first person I speak with doesn't make sense. I've found that telephoning usually meets with more success than trying to resolve something via email and messages. It takes a bit of time and it can be frustrating, but you're more apt to get justice. After the last snafu, eBay actually gave me a $75 credit to spend on anything I wanted to make up for my time and the trouble I'd gone through--it was a shipping screwup, the details of which aren't necessarily important. Let's just say it started with "it's all your fault, there's nothing we can do" to "here's $75, please go away." It wasn't easy--two hours of my life that I'll never get back. But I've learned that if you are persistent and--critically, in the right--that you can sometimes get some measure of justice.
> 
> I'm very wary of buying anything overseas on eBay. I've done it exactly twice, once it worked out, another time it did not. There are just too many variables involved, including the vagaries of international shipping. I'd also be wary of buying any sort of antique or collectible on eBay. I'm currently watching several auctions for historic documents (it's for a project, not a purchase) and it is weird to say the least. Why anyone would pay tens of thousands of dollars for a letter supposedly signed by Abraham Lincoln or whoever without personally examining it, I don't know.


I absolutely never buy anything from overseas on ebay with one very specific exception of a very trusted seller.

I have had my account frozen and it was really obnoxious. I learned at that point that it really wasn't worth the time and effort to sell synthesizers on ebay. Things eventually worked out, but it was a headache.

At the same time, I'm nowhere close to a professional seller and I don't rely on my paypal account for the most part. If I were a professional seller, I would build breakage into my cost of doing business. All other businesses do.

But since I just sell things as a hobby, I can live with my paypal account being frozen during a dispute. I have another bank account where my normal paycheck is deposited and, if I don't have access to paypal funds for a month, it's not the end of the world.

I'm not saying it isn't obnoxious. I'm just saying it's part of doing business and it's not going to change.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

32rollandrock said:


> How much of a difference does Top Rated Seller make anyway? I never pay attention to that when I make purchases, and I'm not about to do things the eBay way at detriment to myself so I can get a digital version of a gold star.


I don't know if it's the same for everyone, but for me I get 20% discount on shipping AND 20% on the final value fees. That's if I keep the top rated seller, offer 1 business day shipping and have 14 day return policy. Even if I don't offer returns, I still get the 20% shipping discount.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I don't know if it's the same for everyone, but for me I get 20% discount on shipping AND 20% on the final value fees. That's if I keep the top rated seller, offer 1 business day shipping and have 14 day return policy. Even if I don't offer returns, I still get the 20% shipping discount.


Meh. I could be wrong, but that sounds like ending up on the wrong side of a deal with the devil.


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## style417 (Jun 28, 2014)

32rollandrock said:


> I'm very wary of buying anything overseas on eBay. I've done it exactly twice, once it worked out, another time it did not. There are just too many variables involved, including the vagaries of international shipping. I'd also be wary of buying any sort of antique or collectible on eBay. I'm currently watching several auctions for historic documents (it's for a project, not a purchase) and it is weird to say the least. Why anyone would pay tens of thousands of dollars for a letter supposedly signed by Abraham Lincoln or whoever without personally examining it, I don't know.


I can understand that apprehension!

When I was buying cars through ebay, I would stick to the larger cities so I could have an independent appraiser go out and look at the vehicle before I bought it. That way I'd not only know the car existed but what my max price should be. I'm sure it would be much more difficult/not cost-effective to get an antique appraiser out in the space of time an item is for sale.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

L-feld said:


> I absolutely never buy anything from overseas on ebay with one very specific exception of a very trusted seller.
> 
> I have had my account frozen and it was really obnoxious. I learned at that point that it really wasn't worth the time and effort to sell synthesizers on ebay. Things eventually worked out, but it was a headache.
> 
> ...


I never leave a nickel in my PP account--it's transferred out as soon as it shows up. Makes the pain of a frozen account a bit less painful.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

style417 said:


> I can understand that apprehension!
> 
> When I was buying cars through ebay, I would stick to the larger cities so I could have an independent appraiser go out and look at the vehicle before I bought it. That way I'd not only know the car existed but what my max price should be. I'm sure it would be much more difficult/not cost-effective to get an antique appraiser out in the space of time an item is for sale.


You bought sight-unseen cars on eBay? Whoa. You know your business better than I, so as long as it worked for you. I once sold a motorcycle to a guy sight-unseen on eBay. He used the BIN option without asking a single question, I got more for the bike that I ever expected and he was thrilled. He was a much more trusting individual than myself.


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## style417 (Jun 28, 2014)

32rollandrock said:


> You bought sight-unseen cars on eBay? Whoa. You know your business better than I, so as long as it worked for you. I once sold a motorcycle to a guy sight-unseen on eBay. He used the BIN option without asking a single question, I got more for the bike that I ever expected and he was thrilled. He was a much more trusting individual than myself.


I tried to buy cars using an appraiser whose opinion I trusted (or who people I knew trusted). Yeah I bought 4-5 cars through ebay, probably averaging around $20K, mostly older BMWs (the type you want someone to go look at!)

I sold my last motorcycle about 5 years ago through Craigslist. A guy from Canada was interested in it, so I sent him a bunch of pictures and receipts. He drove down with a trailer, inspected it, handed me an envelope with a large wad of cash, and off he went. Easiest transaction ever.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

style417 said:


> I tried to buy cars using an appraiser whose opinion I trusted (or who people I knew trusted). Yeah I bought 4-5 cars through ebay, probably averaging around $20K, mostly older BMWs (the type you want someone to go look at!)
> 
> I sold my last motorcycle about 5 years ago through Craigslist. A guy from Canada was interested in it, so I sent him a bunch of pictures and receipts. He drove down with a trailer, inspected it, handed me an envelope with a large wad of cash, and off he went. Easiest transaction ever.


Cool. At least the guy who bought your bike looked at it first. My guy paid, then came to pick it up. Takes all kinds.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

32rollandrock said:


> I never leave a nickel in my PP account--it's transferred out as soon as it shows up. Makes the pain of a frozen account a bit less painful.


One thing to consider, though, is that paypal really should be placing frozen funds into interest bearing escrow accounts. They probably make a bundle off of the aggregate of frozen funds. Might be worth petitioning the OCC or the FTC.

Also, why Eric Holder hasn't gone after ebay for anticompetitive behavior is beyond me. Maybe some brave state AG would be willing to take on the task.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

L-feld said:


> Also, why Eric Holder hasn't gone after ebay for anticompetitive behavior is beyond me. Maybe some brave state AG would be willing to take on the task.


I have oft wondered the same thing...


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

32rollandrock said:


> You bought sight-unseen cars on eBay? Whoa. You know your business better than I, so as long as it worked for you. I once sold a motorcycle to a guy sight-unseen on eBay. He used the BIN option without asking a single question, I got more for the bike that I ever expected and he was thrilled. He was a much more trusting individual than myself.


I bought two different cars on ebay. One, I had to fly to Tampa Florida to pick it up and drive it back to Kansas. The other was outside Chicago. I flew there and drove back, too. One ended up being a fantastic car. The other I sold within 6 months.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

style417 said:


> I tried to buy cars using an appraiser whose opinion I trusted (or who people I knew trusted). Yeah I bought 4-5 cars through ebay, probably averaging around $20K, mostly older BMWs (the type you want someone to go look at!)
> 
> I sold my last motorcycle about 5 years ago through Craigslist. A guy from Canada was interested in it, so I sent him a bunch of pictures and receipts. He drove down with a trailer, inspected it, handed me an envelope with a large wad of cash, and off he went. Easiest transaction ever.


What kind of older BMW's? I have had several. Including my current 7 series with only 208,000 miles (the only was sarcastic, it really does have over 200,000 miles!)


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## mayostard (Mar 10, 2013)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I guess I should just raise the prices and offer returns.


this. The de facto policy is that you will end up returning an item if the seller doesn't want it. Factor this into your decisions and you will be much less frustrated in the future.


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## style417 (Jun 28, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> What kind of older BMW's? I have had several. Including my current 7 series with only 208,000 miles (the only was sarcastic, it really does have over 200,000 miles!)


A couple of E39s - a 540i sedan and a 528iT wagon, two E46s - a 330i sedan and 330i coupe and a E36 328i convertible. The 528iT I bought for myself (it came from Chicago), the others came from CA and I flipped. This was over a period of 3-4 years though; I'm not a car dealer! LOL

I'd love to find an unmolested E38 7er, they were the best looking IMHO.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

style417 said:


> A couple of E39s - a 540i sedan and a 528iT wagon, two E46s - a 330i sedan and 330i coupe and a E36 328i convertible. The 528iT I bought for myself (it came from Chicago), the others came from CA and I flipped. This was over a period of 3-4 years though; I'm not a car dealer! LOL
> 
> I'd love to find an unmolested E38 7er, they were the best looking IMHO.


My e38 (2000 post facelift) is wonderful. But, it does have 208,000 miles. But, I bought it from the original owner. He had all work done at the dealer and was anal about everything. I bought it with 165,000 and haven't had any trouble. I had a previous e38 (1995). I bought it with 150,000. It had the nikosil engine so, the owner got the replacement engine from BMW at about 90,000 miles. While I had that one I bought an 01 e39 with only 50,000 miles. I had to sell one of them so I parked them both on a friends lot. I really wanted to keep the e39. But, they both sold the same day!! I had to have a car, so i bought an ugly Cadillac that I hated the moment I bought it.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

L-feld said:


> One thing to consider, though, is that paypal really should be placing frozen funds into interest bearing escrow accounts. They probably make a bundle off of the aggregate of frozen funds. Might be worth petitioning the OCC or the FTC.
> 
> Also, why Eric Holder hasn't gone after ebay for anticompetitive behavior is beyond me. Maybe some brave state AG would be willing to take on the task.


There have been a number of anti-trust class action lawsuits filed against eBay by private attorneys, none of which accomplished much. I gave up trying to follow them. I do recall that one resulted in a modest settlement that is the reason why you can get a live person on the phone at PayPal. That's essentially what they gave up. I'm not enough of a lawyer to know why what they do isn't illegal, but I do know when something quacks like a duck.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I find myself more inclined to buy on Etsy for vintage menswear stuff, personally, and that's sort of where I want to start selling my own given the current state of eBay.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Jovan said:


> I find myself more inclined to buy on Etsy for vintage menswear stuff, personally, and that's sort of where I want to start selling my own given the current state of eBay.


It sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately, I just wish that Etsy had the same amount of traffic as eBay. I could definitely sell stuff on Etsy. However, I could sell the same stuff on eBay for considerably higher prices. I will continue to sell on eBay simply because I get results. There will always be headaches when it come to dealing with feeBay. It's just the price of doing business.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

drlivingston said:


> It sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately, I just wish that Etsy had the same amount of traffic as eBay. I could definitely sell stuff on Etsy. However, I could sell the same stuff on eBay for considerably higher prices. I will continue to sell on eBay simply because I get results. There will always be headaches when it come to dealing with feeBay. It's just the price of doing business.


Exactly what I was thinking. It sucks ebay can push us around. But, they are the 800 lb gorilla.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Exactly what I was thinking. It sucks ebay can push us around. But, they are the 800 lb gorilla.


You know what?

No.

Sure they are a gorilla, but everyone has limits. They are very good at figuring out what the outer edge is and keeping hobbyists in orbit, but it is getting harder and harder to keep circling the Death Star. At some point, I suspect that buyers might start migrating to Etsy so they can get bargains from people like me who are getting pushed off of eBay. It no longer makes sense to sell, say, a perfectly good BB OCBD on eBay. That sort of stuff gets sold elsewhere. eBay, more and more, is for grail items. The smart buyers in search of staples or just starting to build wardrobes may well soon find greener pastures elsewhere.

We'll see.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> We'll see.


In all honesty, I hope that you are right. It would be great to have a viable option. My biggest hang-up is having to start all over again as a newbie. And worse, a newbie who has no clue about how etsy works.


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

I personally really like shopping on etsy. I've been thinking about sell there as well, eBay just isn't for me.


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## ArtVandalay (Apr 29, 2010)

I've tried to get into Etsy, but I perceive it to be sort of an odd duck. As a seller, I find that the lack of traffic makes items very slow to move. As a buyer, I find that most stuff I'm interested in is a lot more expensive there than I could find it on eBay. 

I've lurked the site for years but I've never actually bought or sold one single item there.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Honestly, a large part of the reason I enjoy shopping on eBay so much is the thrill of tracking down something particularly rare or badly mislisted and getting it for a song. I depend a lot on the ability to narrow down my searches by various criteria to do that. Etsy, in direct contrast to eBay, has an abysmal search function. You're basically limited to narrowing it down to men's cloths in general, with no options to select style, size, or fabric composition.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

^^

I've only found one thing there, thanks to an alert on this forum, and it was a treasure, a BB 3/2 sack in Augusta green that fits like it was made for me. And it was a steal. But I have no regular experience. My sense is, it is, or at least was, very difficult to search for things, but that might have changed.

It will be interesting to see what happens. I think there's a place for us in-betweeners who are getting pushed off. We just haven't found it yet. It might be a conglomeration of things--etsy, TOF, the exchange.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Etsy's biggest drawback is a lack of good categories for selling and filtering items. You have to either use general searches and wade through tons of irrelevant stuff or use very tailored searches and risk missing stuff that isn't described properly.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Orgetorix said:


> Etsy's biggest drawback is a lack of good categories for selling and filtering items. You have to either use general searches and wade through tons of irrelevant stuff or use very tailored searches and risk missing stuff that isn't described properly.


That is irritating. I have tried searching etsy and it's not easy. My biggest problem is there isn't enough traffic.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

The other thing that bothers me is you can only list handmade or vintage items. The define vintage as older than 1994. There are so many shoes on there that are nowhere near older than 1994.


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## style417 (Jun 28, 2014)

Orgetorix said:


> Etsy's biggest drawback is a lack of good categories for selling and filtering items. You have to either use general searches and wade through tons of irrelevant stuff or use very tailored searches and risk missing stuff that isn't described properly.


I sometimes try a google search to find things on etsy (for example using the command "www.etsy.com: mens grey suit 46R"). It's still a bit hit or miss though.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Nobleprofessor said:


> That is irritating. I have tried searching etsy and it's not easy. My biggest problem is there isn't enough traffic.


Yes, I was commenting from a buyer's perspective. One reason there's less traffic on Etsy is that it's harder to find stuff.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

I believe those who say Ebay favors buyers, so my experience may be an exception. I was flat cheated by the seller of a high-end pen who worked a perfect scam that I did not see coming. After at least ten emails back and forth, he took it to Ebay for a case. The Ebay employee ruled against me in less than five minutes, as the seller planned, by reading only the most recent email. Had the Ebay employee read the entire file, which would have taken more than five minutes, I am confident the ruling would have gone the other way. My fault I allowed myself to be scammed, but I expected a more complete and balanced process by Ebay. Now, I watch more carefully and trust nothing an unknown seller says that is the least bit out of the ordinary.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

godan said:


> I believe those who say Ebay favors buyers, so my experience may be an exception. I was flat cheated by the seller of a high-end pen who worked a perfect scam that I did not see coming. After at least ten emails back and forth, he took it to Ebay for a case. The Ebay employee ruled against me in less than five minutes, as the seller planned, by reading only the most recent email. Had the Ebay employee read the entire file, which would have taken more than five minutes, I am confident the ruling would have gone the other way. My fault I allowed myself to be scammed, but I expected a more complete and balanced process by Ebay. Now, I watch more carefully and trust nothing an unknown seller says that is the least bit out of the ordinary.


I've been on the sellers side of winning a ruling before, and the ebay reps will not go just by one email. They read every email that is sent between the two parties, you must have broken an ebay guideline in atleast 1 of your emails, to have lost your case.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

godan said:


> I believe those who say Ebay favors buyers, so my experience may be an exception. I was flat cheated by the seller of a high-end pen who worked a perfect scam that I did not see coming. After at least ten emails back and forth, he took it to Ebay for a case. The Ebay employee ruled against me in less than five minutes, as the seller planned, by reading only the most recent email. Had the Ebay employee read the entire file, which would have taken more than five minutes, I am confident the ruling would have gone the other way. My fault I allowed myself to be scammed, but I expected a more complete and balanced process by Ebay. Now, I watch more carefully and trust nothing an unknown seller says that is the least bit out of the ordinary.


Trust no one on eBay. I just shipped a sweater today that went for a fairly tidy sum, and I had to ward off a barrage of last-minute overseas bidders with no feedback who joined eBay the same day my auction ended, then tried to bid. I took at least 50 photographs of the sweater, inside and out, before putting it in the mail. It's a drag, but it's the only way to protect yourself from a bogus SNAD complaint, and even then there's no guarantee. It's impossible to tell the thieves from the honest on eBay, so you have to assume that everyone is a thief.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)




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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Dmontez said:


> I've been on the sellers side of winning a ruling before, and the ebay reps will not go just by one email. They read every email that is sent between the two parties, you must have broken an ebay guideline in atleast 1 of your emails, to have lost your case.


It just did not happen that way. Nothing was said about breaking any guidelines, and the seller was especially clever in setting me up. The reason given was his specific contrivance. The five minute figure is accurate, and the emails could not possibly have been read and understood in that time.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

godan said:


> It just did not happen that way. Nothing was said about breaking any guidelines, and the seller was especially clever in setting me up. The reason given was his specific contrivance. The five minute figure is accurate, and the emails could not possibly have been read and understood in that time.


Did you handle it via email/messages or did you call and get a live person? A live person, if you can get one, is always better, I think.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

Nobleprofessor said:


> The other thing that bothers me is you can only list handmade or vintage items. The define vintage as older than 1994. There are so many shoes on there that are nowhere near older than 1994.


That is true. Vintage hunters must know what they are looking at. There is a guideline for listing vintage, but Etsy is a paper tiger in regard to enforcement.

Sent from the ionosphere.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> Did you handle it via email/messages or did you call and get a live person? A live person, if you can get one, is always better, I think.


When it comes to dealing with eBay, I ALWAYS speak to a live person. There is no way that I would try to handle an issue via email/messages. Plus, if I call and get someone who's first language is clearly not English, I will hang up and call back. I may be wrong for doing that, but I really don't care. If they have a hard time communicating with me, I refuse to waste my time (and theirs).


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

I've been told its best to call ebay between 9-5 on weekdays for a better chance of getting English speaking reps.



drlivingston said:


> When it comes to dealing with eBay, I ALWAYS speak to a live person. There is no way that I would try to handle an issue via email/messages. Plus, if I call and get someone who's first language is clearly not English, I will hang up and call back. I may be wrong for doing that, but I really don't care. If they have a hard time communicating with me, I refuse to waste my time (and theirs).


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Most of the sellers on Etsy, from what I've seen, are completely clueless about how to properly measure clothing. One actually thanked me for showing her how to take measurements for her future listings. 

Yes, there are equally clueless people listing clothes on eBay, but is seems there are more on Etsy.

There's a lot of eBay bashing here, and I've had a bad experience (or two). But I'm pretty pleased overall with my own transactions as buyer and seller. I think a lot of times, you can sense when a seller is a scammer (limited information, won't reply to questions, lousy photos, etc.). So you don't place a bid, that's all. 

If you opened a store to sell gently-used clothing, you'd run into crooks and scammers, too. You pay a landlord rent for shop space, you pay eBay a fee to sell your items. That's just the way it is.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

As an aside, I've been watching a particular jacket on eBay that seems to have measurements that are a little wacky. I don't think the seller knows how to measure properly. So, through eBay messages (which are documented), I negotiated a return for refund if it doesn't fit. Yes, I'm willing to pay return postage if it doesn't work out. 

So, in advance, I set up a situation where both parties will be happy, whether the jacket fits or not. I just have to win it first!


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I second the comment about the cluelessness of some etsy sellers. I have messaged three of them to explain to them that their shoes are not shell cordovan. Each time, it was painfully obvious but they were trying to sell them as shell anyway. Each time, they were very grateful and changed their listing. I would want someone to point out my mistakes before I sold an item.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

gamma68 said:


> There's a lot of eBay bashing here, and I've had a bad experience (or two). But I'm pretty pleased overall with my own transactions as buyer and seller. I think a lot of times, you can sense when a seller is a scammer (limited information, won't reply to questions, lousy photos, etc.). So you don't place a bid, that's all.


whether I am critical of certain aspects of Ebay's business model, does not mean that I am not, in general, happy with my ebay experience as a buyer and seller. I have listed lots of things just in the few days since I started this thread. AND, I have sold and bought since then too. Ebay was a totally brilliant concept and they do a lot of things well. But, sometimes they screw up. I still think they want to have a marketplace where everyone offers returns. But, that's not going to happen for everybody. I offer returns on about 1/3 of the things I sell. If ebay continues pushing returns, that will probably increase.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

drlivingston said:


> I second the comment about the cluelessness of some etsy sellers. I have messaged three of them to explain to them that their shoes are not shell cordovan. Each time, it was painfully obvious but they were trying to sell them as shell anyway. Each time, they were very grateful and changed their listing. I would want someone to point out my mistakes before I sold an item.


If the reverse is true and they are selling shell and calling it leather, don't tell them, tell us!


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

I have caught this guy trying to sell shoes as Genuine shell cordovan that simply were not https://www.ebay.com/usr/alsdaperdashery13
I checked his feedback and he has had a couple of people saying that they received fake items. this is his facebook page where he shows off his own "#gq" looks that he has put together, and tries to sell contrast paisley cuffed shirts for over 100bucks.

show


drlivingston said:


> I second the comment about the cluelessness of some etsy sellers. I have messaged three of them to explain to them that their shoes are not shell cordovan. Each time, it was painfully obvious but they were trying to sell them as shell anyway. Each time, they were very grateful and changed their listing. I would want someone to point out my mistakes before I sold an item.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Good lord... more like diaperdashery.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

My eBay pet peeve of the day: People who make an official offer on a BIN item and don't pay for days after the offer is accepted. :mad2:


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Exactly, I have pointed this all out on his facebook page, so he deleted everything and then blocked me so he could get back to scamming people in peace I guess.



drlivingston said:


> Good lord... more like diaperdashery.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

32rollandrock said:


> Did you handle it via email/messages or did you call and get a live person? A live person, if you can get one, is always better, I think.


No, I did not do that, and I thank you for the suggestion.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Dmontez said:


> I've been told its best to call ebay between 9-5 on weekdays for a better chance of getting English speaking reps.


Don't know if they do this anymore, but who you get when you call customer service at eBay depends on who you are. High volume sellers deal with reps in the U.S. Small timers like me get routed to India. This was told to me by a high-volume guy a few years back. I will say, however, that I had to call twice last weekend to remove last-minute bids from brand-new overseas bidders, and one of the calls was handled by someone whose first language was clearly English. Progress, I guess.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

godan said:


> No, I did not do that, and I thank you for the suggestion.


You're welcome, and it's not as hard as it once was. Back in the day, you could be on hold for 45 minutes or longer before someone picked up. Now, it's relatively prompt. You still have to figure out how to get a phone number, which is a bit tricky, but entirely possible after poking around for a few minutes.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

I learned the call during regular business hours through the community portion of the ebay site, which can be very helpful for quick questions, no one ever said anything about it going by your seller status. I am not shy about asking for a rep whose first language is English though, I am not trying to hurt feelings, but I am not going to try and communicate with someone who cannot properly communicate with me.



32rollandrock said:


> Don't know if they do this anymore, but who you get when you call customer service at eBay depends on who you are. High volume sellers deal with reps in the U.S. Small timers like me get routed to India. This was told to me by a high-volume guy a few years back.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> Don't know if they do this anymore, but who you get when you call customer service at eBay depends on who you are. High volume sellers deal with reps in the U.S. Small timers like me get routed to India. This was told to me by a high-volume guy a few years back. I will say, however, that I had to call twice last weekend to remove last-minute bids from brand-new overseas bidders, and one of the calls was handled by someone whose first language was clearly English. Progress, I guess.


I actually received an email from eBay shortly after I started selling that detailed, to an extent, what you are saying. They told me that once I became a "Top Rated Plus" seller, my calls would be handled by a special department set up to deal with top rated sellers questions. That never happened.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Dmontez said:


> I learned the call during regular business hours through the community portion of the ebay site, which can be very helpful for quick questions, no one ever said anything about it going by your seller status. I am not shy about asking for a rep whose first language is English though, I am not trying to hurt feelings, but I am not going to try and communicate with someone who cannot properly communicate with me.


You shouldn't have to apologize. I'll give folks from other countries a shot. Some are better than others. Problems can arise, however, when dealing with stuff like shipping. That happened to me once. eBay was supposed to pay for shipping an item and it didn't work. I can't recall the details but it ultimately turned out that the offshore person who was trying to help me did not understand how the U.S. Postal Service works. It was a complete waste of my time and his.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

I can't say that I have read every single response in this thread but I have read over half of them.

I have an idea,.....*Why not just stop using E-Bay and the biggest rip off I know of, PayPal altogether?*:icon_scratch:

Now granted, I have more "Durable goods" clothing than I can use for the rest of my life so I don't have to use E-Bay or PayPal. Never used them, never will.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> I can't say that I have read every single response in this thread but I have read over half of them.
> 
> I have an idea,.....*Why not just stop using E-Bay and the biggest rip off I know of, PayPal altogether?*:icon_scratch:
> 
> Now granted, I have more "Durable goods" clothing than I can use for the rest of my life so I don't have to use E-Bay or PayPal. Never used them, never will.


Because if you flip stuff you find in thrift stores, there is no realistic alternative. You either hang it up and find a new hobby or do business via the devil.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

It comes down to this for me, I do not buy from ebay, I've purchased a handful of times, and have even once or twice found the seller to be an AAAC member, and we end up doing the deal off the books so to speak, but I do sell on ebay, infrequently. Generally I only sell on ebay if I have no one from the forums biting on what I am selling, or if I just plain don't think it will sell on the forums.

Every now and then as a seller you get taken to the woodshed. ebay does not like its sellers it seems to me, but loves the buyers. Like others have said ebay has found out how to push the sellers to the absolute limit without getting them to run, while making it a wonderful place for buyers to change their mind on a whim and return whatever they or they will leave bad feedback. I one time had a buyer leave feedback calling me a liar, said that I was rude in my messages to him, when I talked to ebay they agreed that I had not lied, but because it was his opinion that I was rude to him ebay would not remove it from my feedback, because that would be censoring the buyer, but as a seller you are not allowed to leave feedback unless it is positive...



127.72 MHz said:


> I can't say that I have read every single response in this thread but I have read over half of them.
> 
> I have an idea,.....*Why not just stop using E-Bay and the biggest rip off I know of, PayPal altogether?*:icon_scratch:
> 
> Now granted, I have more "Durable goods" clothing than I can use for the rest of my life so I don't have to use E-Bay or PayPal. Never used them, never will.


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## style417 (Jun 28, 2014)

127.72 MHz said:


> I can't say that I have read every single response in this thread but I have read over half of them.
> 
> I have an idea,.....*Why not just stop using E-Bay and the biggest rip off I know of, PayPal altogether?*:icon_scratch:
> 
> Now granted, I have more "Durable goods" clothing than I can use for the rest of my life so I don't have to use E-Bay or PayPal. Never used them, never will.


I don't buy very much on ebay any more, and now for clothing prefer to buy directly from an AAAC member. Paypal unfortunately is a necessary evil unless there's another proxy transfer that a seller will accept like Amazon or Dwolla.


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

Ebay experts, lend me your ears
I was watching a pair of shoes that I like which ended a few days ago at a price that made me say "Damn, I should have bid on those" , no reserve of course. So I was very surprised when I was notified they were relisted. I asked the seller why they had been relisted and didn't go to the winner, and he said its because the winner backed out, seeing as the first auction ended at $12 for what I've seen sell for $40+ I can't imagine why the winner would back out, however I CAN imagine the sellers incentive for relisting them, is it possible the seller felt the selling price was too low and is being shady by not selling to the first auction winner to try to get a higher price? The seller is low feedback (teens) but all positive, half as buyer half as seller.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

ThatDudeOrion said:


> Ebay experts, lend me your ears
> I was watching a pair of shoes that I like which ended a few days ago at a price that made me say "Damn, I should have bid on those" , no reserve of course. So I was very surprised when I was notified they were relisted. I asked the seller why they had been relisted and didn't go to the winner, and he said its because the winner backed out, seeing as the first auction ended at $12 for what I've seen sell for $40+ I can't imagine why the winner would back out, however I CAN imagine the sellers incentive for relisting them, is it possible the seller felt the selling price was too low and is being shady by not selling to the first auction winner to try to get a higher price? The seller is low feedback (teens) but all positive, half as buyer half as seller.


The seller is probably telling the truth. I have had numerous people back out of sales at the end of an auction. I, typically, don't mind and just relist the item. It is preferable to let someone out of a purchase than to force an item on them that they no longer want. That is a recipe for negative feedback.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

I've been using eBay a lot recently for ties and vintage tie clips/chains/etc and so on and found that although they are extremely frustrating to deal with when a problem arises, but it mostly just takes the determination to see it through to the end and push against the brick wall of indifference they initially throw up. 

I recently bought an item that never arrived. I contacted the seller and didn't get far so I opened a case. About five minutes later I was notified that eBay has ruled in favour of the seller. No reason was given. I contact eBay again and was told that the case is closed. Around this time I'd also received a call from FedEx in Hong Kong informing me that the package had been lost. I asked eBay how it was possible that they could rule in favour of the buyer when the package had been lost and got a brush off response. 

I eventually found out that on the FedEx tracking history the delivery guy who had lost the package had filled out that it was delivered to me but the I had "refused to accept the package". This is what eBay was, presumably, basing their decision on. I explained the situation to eBay and they basically said they didn't care. I continued pushing them, and at the same time tried to get FedEx to correct the tracking history for me to present to eBay. 

FedEx are unable to correct tracking history once it has been input into the system, but after an internal investigation they wrote me an email apologising for the mistake. I forwarded this to eBay, again not good enough, needs to be on official company letterhead and so on and so forth. I did eventually manage to get this issued and forwarded it to eBay and they actually submitted an internal manual correction in order to process my refund. I guess they hadn't encountered that situation before. 

The whole process took a while, I was ready to write it off given the frustration and time of the calls and emails, but eventually it paid off. They didn't make it easy though.


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## rdg (May 12, 2014)

I've been a member of eBay since 1999. These were the days before paypal when you had to mail a check to the seller when you bought something. I have bought more than sold on eBay.

I did have an issue a few months ago where a buyer wanted to return a pair of shoes. Instead of contacting me first, he opened a case with eBay. I had never even heard of this and was taken aback. I thought it was rude to basically file a complaint without contacting me first. I would say eBay has definetely changed for the worse lately. I issued the buyer a refund and he paid return shipping. I then donated the shoes to a local thrift store.

I have also witnessed the steady increase in fees over time. I would basically rather donate my clotes to the Good Will than bother to list them on eBay.

The fees and recent interactions with buyers has discouraged me from trying to flip thrift store finds on eBay.

I would also say that for the technologically inclined who want to have a small sideline business, you can create your own web store. It is getting easier every year. Your challenge will be getting traffic to the store. An example of this is the guy who runs https://anaffordablewardrobe.blogspot.com/ He has his own web store to sell thrifted items. I have noticed that he has started listing rare/desirable items on eBay in the last several months.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Here is a new rant! 

I have been going back and forth with a seller on a BB OCBD. You all have convinced me I need one. The only BB OCBD I have is way to casual to wear a tie with. So, a seller has one in my size. They have it Buy it now or best offer. So I made offers. The end result is that they will only come down ONE DOLLAR from their Buy it now price. 

Why even bother with a best offer? If you have a price you want and are not willing to accept a reasonable offer, why just sell it Buy it now without any best offer? 

Sorry for the rant.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

^ Agreed.

Though, to be fair, all BB OCBDs are necessarily casual compared to many types of shirt.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Here is a new rant!
> 
> I have been going back and forth with a seller on a BB OCBD. You all have convinced me I need one. The only BB OCBD I have is way to casual to wear a tie with. So, a seller has one in my size. They have it Buy it now or best offer. So I made offers. The end result is that they will only come down ONE DOLLAR from their Buy it now price.
> 
> ...


Buy the shirt, lie and say it never arrived and you can have it for free. That sort of thing works for a lot of other people.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Jovan said:


> ^ Agreed.
> 
> Though, to be fair, all BB OCBDs are necessarily casual compared to many types of shirt.


True. But, what I meant was the one BB OCBD that I have was not intended as a shirt that would be worn with a tie. At least I wouldn't wear it with a tie. That was really what I was looking for. I haven't worn a button down collar with a tie in years. I wear point collars. But, I thought I would try it again. That was my purpose in trying to find a OCBD. My thinking was if I didn't like the shirt with a tie, then I could just wear it without a tie.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> Buy the shirt, lie and say it never arrived and you can have it for free. That sort of thing works for a lot of other people.


This happened to me (again) earlier this week. A man from Argentina ordered shoes and claimed he never received them. International tracking shows that they attempted to deliver the shoes to him TWICE but were unsuccessful. I freakin' hate delivering internationally to anywhere other than Europe or Australia.


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## adoucett (Nov 16, 2012)

Just when I thought I was immune to all this eBay madness....

I get a return request on my highest priced sale to date. Does this mean if I relist, I have to pay ebay TWICE for final value fees? I'm gonna start losing money here! :icon_headagainstwal

Speaking of which, to add to this fun, I have another item that sold and the buyer simply is refusing to pay. I don't see _why _they would bid in this case, but here I am, apparently screwed on both accounts.


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## blue suede shoes (Mar 22, 2010)

drlivingston said:


> This happened to me (again) earlier this week. A man from Argentina ordered shoes and claimed he never received them. International tracking shows that they attempted to deliver the shoes to him TWICE but were unsuccessful. I freakin' hate delivering internationally to anywhere other than Europe or Australia.


So if they were unsuccessful at two delivery attempts, where are the shoes? He should be able to contact the local delivery office and pick them up himself or have them delivered when he is home.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

adoucett said:


> Just when I thought I was immune to all this eBay madness....
> 
> I get a return request on my highest priced sale to date. Does this mean if I relist, I have to pay ebay TWICE for final value fees? I'm gonna start losing money here! :icon_headagainstwal
> 
> Speaking of which, to add to this fun, I have another item that sold and the buyer simply is refusing to pay. I don't see _why _they would bid in this case, but here I am, apparently screwed on both accounts.


I don't think that you'll be charged fees on the return, but still--what a headache. Ebay doesn't go after non-paying bidders, so you are screwed on the second account, although you will not be charged fees. I block any bidders who haven't paid, and I once tried blocking everyone on the Secret eBay Black List that is maintained by someone on TOF. That's tough, though, because the list has gotten so long.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

blue suede shoes said:


> So if they were unsuccessful at two delivery attempts, where are the shoes? He should be able to contact the local delivery office and pick them up himself or have them delivered when he is home.


Why go to all that trouble when you have eBay to "protect" you from such unscrupulous sellers as Dr. L? He can just sit at home and pretend he was sleeping and he'll get his money back.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

/\/\ +1 - the honeymoon with ebay was from my first sale in '02 to about '08, when things were new and good. Then, for all of the collective problematic reasons mentioned or implied in this thread, I stopped doing as much as I had, and nowadays, absolutely NO international shipping. The good and reasonable occasional European buyer, was gradually replaced by the Asian and Eastern European opportunist. No offense intended, but that is the honest truth in regard to the buying pattern and charge-back patterns I personally experienced. I do still buy from eBay, but my days as a seller are just about washed up. If I sell at all, it's only to the CONUS.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

adoucett said:


> I get a return request on my highest priced sale to date. Does this mean if I relist, I have to pay ebay TWICE for final value fees? I'm gonna start losing money here! :icon_headagainstwal


When the item comes back to you, cancel the sale and eBay will credit back your final value fees to your monthly invoice. You don't have to pay those twice.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

My problem now is with a seller! I like being on this side better. A seller has a Salvatore Ferragamo Blue blazer for sale as a 50L. He provided the following measurements: 

US 50L with a chest of 22.5 inches, sleeves 26.5, shoulders 20, and length 34. 

He he says the tag says 60L so, that would be a US 50L. But, there's no way a 50L has a chest of 22.5. Even by close cut European standards that's going to be 46L or so. 

So, I emailed him told him I was very interested, but could he confirm the size and measurements. Here is what he just wrote me back: 

"I'm actually listing this item as labeled by this designer. All labels are what they are intended. I provide measurements so a best decision can be made." 

Im sorry, what? 

I guess the best decision for me to make is not to buy this blazer.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

I'd avoid this!



Nobleprofessor said:


> My problem now is with a seller! I like being on this side better. A seller has a Salvatore Ferragamo Blue blazer for sale as a 50L. He provided the following measurements:
> 
> US 50L with a chest of 22.5 inches, sleeves 26.5, shoulders 20, and length 34.
> 
> ...


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

TweedyDon said:


> I'd avoid this!


Like the plague!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Pardon this mini rant but... PRESS YOUR ITEMS BEFORE YOU SELL THEM. You're already paying the listing fees, taking it to the cleaners or the time to do it yourself is really not that much on top of it.



This shirt was listed before and didn't get any bites. Gee, could it be that it's a wrinkled mess yet listed as "flawless"? -_-


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Jovan said:


> Pardon this mini rant but... PRESS YOUR ITEMS BEFORE YOU SELL THEM. You're already paying the listing fees, taking it to the cleaners or the time to do it yourself is really not that much on top of it.
> 
> This shirt was listed before and didn't get any bites. Gee, could it be that it's a wrinkled mess yet listed as "flawless"? -_-


The reason that shirt hasn't sold is that a, it is a formal shirt, and those are tough sells and b, it is a formal shirt with buttons instead of studs, which narrows the market even further. The reason it isn't ironed is that pressing formal shirts is a royal PITA.


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## dr.butcher (May 28, 2014)

drlivingston said:


> This happened to me (again) earlier this week. A man from Argentina ordered shoes and claimed he never received them. International tracking shows that they attempted to deliver the shoes to him TWICE but were unsuccessful. I freakin' hate delivering internationally to anywhere other than Europe or Australia.


Did you send them via regular post or a parcel delivery company? I've never had a problem with Hong Kong post, but frequently had problems with parcel delivery companies here, because they hire doofuses. Did you see the story in the UK the other day about a guy who was delivering a parcel, recipient wasn't home, so he tried to throw it over the fence and it landed on the roof?

I recently had my second lost ebay item. It was sent via Royal Mail International Signed-for and it was delivered to the wrong person who then signed and collected it. I opened a case with the local post office but the seller refused to supply any of the information required to track the package. Hong Kong post informed me that they can't let me know where the package was sent or who signed for it unless the sender initiates the claim and provides certain documents, when I explained to them the situation they took down my name and address and were able to confirm it was sent to the wrong address without being allowed to give any further details.

I know mainland Chinese post is as useful as the Mexican postal service, but some Asian countries have very efficient systems, taking into account that some delivery men cannot read the English address.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

With what just happened to me on ebay I think I will buy some lottery tickets tonight, or go hunt a unicorn.

I had a buyer request a return 1 week after receiving the item. I said no. He had them for to long and in my listing I explicitly say that I do not accept returns. As we all know this means absolutely nothing to ebay. If a buyer wants his money back all that he has to say is that the item he received was "not as described" and ebay will force you to give them their money back, and hope that your item is still in good shape.

I finally told the buyer that he could return them on his dime, and that if they came back with any type of damage I would not accept the return and he would have to pay for the return shipping. I got them back and sure enough I found tiny black specs that looked like someone maybe dropped ink near him. I told him they were damaged and that he needed to send a shipping label so that I could return them. The buyer refused, and opened a case. I responded to the case with the same response I had already given him. He damaged the item, and I would not accept the return.

I called ebay and asked for a supervisor. I GOT SOMEONE WHOSE FIRST LANGUAGE IS ENGLISH!! I explained to him the predicament, and he informed me that basically the buyer is going to get his money back one way or the other, I offered pictures of the damages and he said that would not be necessary that once he closed the case he would appeal the decision on my behalf and ebay would take care of the refund out of their own pockets!

Not only did I get paid, but the item stays with me.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Dmontez said:


> With what just happened to me on ebay I think I will buy some lottery tickets tonight, or go hunt a unicorn.
> 
> I had a buyer request a return 1 week after receiving the item. I said no. He had them for to long and in my listing I explicitly say that I do not accept returns. As we all know this means absolutely nothing to ebay. If a buyer wants his money back all that he has to say is that the item he received was "not as described" and ebay will force you to give them their money back, and hope that your item is still in good shape.
> 
> ...


You are lying.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Dmontez said:


> Not only did I get paid, but the item stays with me.


Get the pug outta here!! Seriously?


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

I am completely serious. I have never heard of this happening before, but I will admit I was very proactive with this case. I called ebay every time I corresponded with the buyer, and even had a couple of "ebay service request" numbers that proved that I was doing my best to work with the seller, and each time I spoke with someone from ebay (always a supervisor I never speak to the first person I get on the line) they always agreed that it seemed to be a clear cut case of buyers remorse which is a buying violation.

I had one ebay supervisor tell me that they recently changed from Ebay Buyers Protection, to Ebay Money Back Guarantee due to the previous one sounding like they favor the buyers, but they also said there is almost no change in the policies just a change of name.

When speaking with the ebay supervisors I was very clear with them that I would not accept my item damaged and that I would not pay for shipping back to the buyer. I am incredibly surprised at the outcome since ebay and paypal have access to a credit card through paypal they really can at any point just decide to take the money and tell me to piss off.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Yep... I would definitely play the lottery tonight. (not to mention, you are at post #777)


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

You did it exactly right. It takes time to work the phones but it is so much better than the Internet when it comes to solving problems.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

I just had a buyer argue with me about an $8 shipping/handling charge. They thought $6 would be "more reasonable." Actual shipping cost: $6.85. Yes...they were arguing with me over a DOLLAR. GMAFB.

And, no...I didn't back down. But they'll damn sure be blocked from bidding on any of my stuff from here on out.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

When you consider the cost of materials (tape, boxes, tissue, etc.) and the time to actually pack it, the extra $1.15 is not at all unreasonable. After all, is it not called "shipping _and handling_"?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I will never forget the time in my eBay infancy when I listed a ton of stuff with a starting bid of $.99 and free shipping. Oi...


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## dkoernert (May 31, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> I will never forget the time in my eBay infancy when I listed a ton of stuff with a starting bid of $.99 and free shipping. Oi...


I did that too once. I thought I would make a killing doing that since some of the SF big timers are successful with that strategy. I wound up losing about $100 in a week and never did it again.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Topsider said:


> I just had a buyer argue with me about an $8 shipping/handling charge. They thought $6 would be "more reasonable." Actual shipping cost: $6.85. Yes...they were arguing with me over a DOLLAR. GMAFB.
> 
> And, no...I didn't back down. But they'll damn sure be blocked from bidding on any of my stuff from here on out.


The thing that gets me is when buyers complain about shipping charges that were fully disclosed on the front end of the deal, which can affect your seller's rating. If you don't like the shipping charge...then don't buy the goods. Even asking buyers to rate the reasonableness of shipping charges is part of eBay's strategy, I think, to push all buyers to provide "free" shipping, which of course isn't free at all. I always err on the side of caution, i.e. myself, when setting shipping costs. I don't have a postal scale or any of that stuff, so I guess. I've had a few potential buyers get in touch and ask me to cram shoes or whatever it is into flat-rate boxes so they can save a buck or two on shipping, and I always refuse and I never apologize. I am going to ship stuff in boxes that are best for the stuff, not for anyone's wallet.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Here's one for you.

Sold an item to someone a few weeks ago. He paid on Aug. 4. Item delivered on Aug. 7, as per USPS tracking. Buyer posted positive feedback on Aug. 13, saying he received item and loves it. Tonight, he complained to eBay and opened a case, saying that he had not received the item.

Uh...

In his complaint, he also posted a message: "How 'bout some positive feedback?"

To the uninitiated, this is what can, and does, happen on eBay. I suspect that I will ultimately prevail--after all, I do have tracking and the buyer's own feedback stating that he received said item--but it will take time. Likely a call to eBay and a half-hour or so of my life that I will never get back. This is why most sellers would prefer to do business on websites like this instead of eBay.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Ok, I have a story, but I'm the one that screwed up. I sold a few suits last week and I sent the Seersucker to the guy who bought the Canali Pinstripe and the Pinstripe went to the Seersucker guy. Totally my fault. I just got in a hurry and I out the wrong label on the boxes. In 800-900 transactions, I have done this one other time. Except that time I thought I lost a shipping label and reprinted it. One guy got two pairs of shoes. Whoops. 

Anyway, I didn't know I made a mistake until I saw that a case had been opened. The buyer didn't email me. He immediately filed a case. I figured it out almost immediately emailed new labels to both and refunded the shipping they both paid and apologized profusely. The second buyer (who didn't even know he got the wrong suit because he had not opened his package) tells me no problem. Stuff happens, it's cool, etc, etc. 

The problem was my own fault --completely. But, sheesh man, let me know instead of filing a case.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Maybe I'm just lucky. But I've never sold an item on eBay and had a problem with the buyer. Ever.
And I've sold items overseas. Oh, one guy bought some shoes and didn't pay. No biggie, I filed a complaint with eBay and relisted them. Sold them to a buyer who paid promptly. 

Maybe I just jinxed myself. But I really have no issue with eBay when it comes to buyers.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

gamma68 said:


> Maybe I'm just lucky. But I've never sold an item on eBay and had a problem with the buyer. Ever.
> And I've sold items overseas. Oh, one guy bought some shoes and didn't pay. No biggie, I filed a complaint with eBay and relisted them. Sold them to a buyer who paid promptly.
> 
> Maybe I just jinxed myself. But I really have no issue with eBay when it comes to buyers.


Dude, you better find some wood and start knocking.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

gamma68 said:


> Maybe I just jinxed myself. But I really have no issue with eBay when it comes to buyers.


Sell enough and it will come. But no worries, it won't be the end of the world when it does. Good to hear you're doing well.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

gamma68 said:


> Maybe I'm just lucky. But I've never sold an item on eBay and had a problem with the buyer. Ever.
> And I've sold items overseas. Oh, one guy bought some shoes and didn't pay. No biggie, I filed a complaint with eBay and relisted them. Sold them to a buyer who paid promptly.
> 
> Maybe I just jinxed myself. But I really have no issue with eBay when it comes to buyers.


Wow! Good job. You are amazing.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

HELP!!

I got this message from a buyer today, should I trust him?

DEAR SIR,

YOU ACCEPTED MY OFFER FOR THIS SHOES. I THANK YOU.

I NEED SOME HELP. I WILL NOT BE AT HOME UNTILL THE END OF THE MONTH OF AUGUST. MAY I ASK YOU TO SHIP THIS PAIR OF SHOES THE 29 OF AUGUST 2014? I WILL PAY NOW.

MY REGARDS


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Dmontez said:


> HELP!!
> 
> I got this message from a buyer today, should I trust him?
> 
> ...


I think that you should be OK. You've got it in writing. Just to be sure, though, I would call eBay to confirm. You can't be too careful.


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## adoucett (Nov 16, 2012)

Dmontez said:


> HELP!!
> 
> I got this message from a buyer today, should I trust him?
> 
> ...


Sounds like despite his er, communication deficiencies, he's trying to avoid the box sitting on the porch for a few days while he was away. If his feedback score is good, it's probably without nefarious intentions....but you never know.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Dmontez said:


> HELP!!
> 
> I got this message from a buyer today, should I trust him?
> 
> ...





32rollandrock said:


> I think that you should be OK. You've got it in writing. Just to be sure, though, I would call eBay to confirm. You can't be too careful.


32's absolutely right. This is a situation that I recently faced:

_please excuse me for a little delay of my payment. I'm out of home but I assure to pay soon by pay pal. I would like to ask you to send the tie after the 20th August yo receive it.
Thank you very much
sincerely
DR_

I called ebay to inform them of the situation. Since I have the message from the winning bidder, they completely understood. This prevents it from going against my "defect" rating.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

drlivingston said:


> This prevents it from going against my "defect" rating.


I neither understand nor care about my defect rating, of which I only recently became aware. Never ripped anyone off. Never been late with shipping. I still have three defects, apparently because I shipped stuff via first class mail, with tracking, but eBay doesn't recognize first class U.S. mail as a shipping option, so I got dinged.

I would rather save a dollar or two on shipping than chase after whatever seller rating eBay dangles in front of me. It's like a carrot on a stick that isn't worth catching.


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## mayostard (Mar 10, 2013)

* item listed as "new" with "only wore it a couple of times" buried in the description

* item only listed with buy it now option, set at retail price

* pictures all out of focus


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Acme said:


> But no worries, it won't be the end of the world when it does.


Wise words.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

mayostard said:


> * item listed as "new" with "only wore it a couple of times" buried in the description
> 
> * item only listed with buy it now option, set at retail price
> 
> * pictures all out of focus


Actually, numbers one and three can work in your favor. If it is listed as new, anywhere, and it is not and you win the auction and don't like it, you can return it at the seller's expense. And you shouldn't feel bad about doing it--listing something as new, anywhere, when it is not is not ethical, and getting a return because you did it is a pretty good way to ensure that you won't do it again. And if you know what you're looking for, blurry photographs can scare off other buyers and work in your favor. Rare, but it does happen.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Sold four things last night. All four buyers paid within 20 minutes. I am not making this up.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Ok, I have a story, but I'm the one that screwed up. I sold a few suits last week and I sent the Seersucker to the guy who bought the Canali Pinstripe and the Pinstripe went to the Seersucker guy. Totally my fault. I just got in a hurry and I out the wrong label on the boxes. In 800-900 transactions, I have done this one other time. Except that time I thought I lost a shipping label and reprinted it. One guy got two pairs of shoes. Whoops.
> 
> Anyway, I didn't know I made a mistake until I saw that a case had been opened. The buyer didn't email me. He immediately filed a case. I figured it out almost immediately emailed new labels to both and refunded the shipping they both paid and apologized profusely. The second buyer (who didn't even know he got the wrong suit because he had not opened his package) tells me no problem. Stuff happens, it's cool, etc, etc.
> 
> The problem was my own fault --completely. But, sheesh man, let me know instead of filing a case.


For what it's worth, I bought a shirt last week and it arrived last night. It was the wrong shirt and I went to contact the seller. I sent him a message saying he sent me the wrong shirt and selected "item not as described" as the message subject. After I sent the message, ebay automatically opened a case. I think they just do that if you select "item not as described."


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

32rollandrock said:


> Sold four things last night. All four buyers paid within 20 minutes. I am not making this up.


I guess that I really must live in a bubble. I have never purchased an item and not paid immediately.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Same here. Recently I've had a couple of buyers wait a day or two before paying and it felt a little annoying. I've gotten used to instant payment these days.



vpkozel said:


> I guess that I really must live in a bubble. I have never purchased an item and not paid immediately.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

vpkozel said:


> I guess that I really must live in a bubble. I have never purchased an item and not paid immediately.


I've had this problem only in rare instances. Most buyers pay within 24 hours. I've only had one buyer fail to pay--and that's in 15 years of selling on eBay.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

While I am not near being an eBay heavy hitter, I did mail out over 1100 items in the past twelve months. Out of those, I had to open non-payment cases on less than 5. If someone doesn't pay, I usually give them the option of canceling the transaction. If they still do not respond, I move forward with the case.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

drlivingston said:


> While I am not near being an eBay heavy hitter,


Quality, not quantity doc.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 69firebird (Jul 28, 2014)

drlivingston said:


> While I am not near being an eBay heavy hitter, I did mail out over 1100 items in the past twelve months. Out of those, I had to open non-payment cases on less than 5. If someone doesn't pay, I usually give them the option of canceling the transaction. If they still do not respond, I move forward with the case.


Sounds like a me a rational approach, hopefully non-payers don't ncrease.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

My current rant is when someone wins an auction. You send them an invoice. Then, they tell you that they want you to send the items to (insert third-world country).


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Mine's not really an eBay rant but rather at the USPS. I set five packaged eBay sales on the front porch beneath the mailbox, all in Priority Mail boxes with correct postage, and the carrier dropped our mail but never picked up the packages. So I brought them to the PO this morning, a little worried that the postage would have expired but the guy just said, "Okay, looks like you're all set." I felt like saying, "I was all set yesterday, too..." but thought it best to let it go. I just don't get it. I've never had this problem before.


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## mayostard (Mar 10, 2013)

fwiw, postage doesn't expire.


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Duvel said:


> Mine's not really an eBay rant but rather at the USPS. I set five packaged eBay sales on the front porch beneath the mailbox, all in Priority Mail boxes with correct postage, and the carrier dropped our mail but never picked up the packages. So I brought them to the PO this morning, a little worried that the postage would have expired but the guy just said, "Okay, looks like you're all set." I felt like saying, "I was all set yesterday, too..." but thought it best to let it go. I just don't get it. I've never had this problem before.


I've said it before, I'll say it again. The USPS is the most inefficient organization known to man.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

gamma68 said:


> I've said it before, I'll say it again. The USPS is the most inefficient organization known to man.


I sent out two packages on Friday via USPS Priority. One was going to Dothan, Alabama. One was going to Pearl City, Oahu, Hawaii. The package going to Hawaii beat the package going to Dothan by a day. Go figure.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I didn't think so either, but when I paid my postage online the other night, it said it was good only until midnight of the posted date.



mayostard said:


> fwiw, postage doesn't expire.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Okay guys, I need your help to make sure I'm not nuts. This listing shows a striped shirt, right? I contacted the seller and he is claiming that the listing was for a solid gray shirt and that's what the pictures show.


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## vpkozel (May 2, 2014)

drlivingston said:


> I sent out two packages on Friday via USPS Priority. One was going to Dothan, Alabama. One was going to Pearl City, Oahu, Hawaii. The package going to Hawaii beat the package going to Dothan by a day. Go figure.


To be fair, the one going to Dothan had to go back a couple of decades......

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the prime rib.


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> I sent out two packages on Friday via USPS Priority. One was going to Dothan, Alabama. One was going to Pearl City, Oahu, Hawaii. The package going to Hawaii beat the package going to Dothan by a day. Go figure.


Well, Doc, we all know life moves a little slower in Dixie. :devil:


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

L-feld said:


> Okay guys, I need your help to make sure I'm not nuts. This listing shows a striped shirt, right? I contacted the seller and he is claiming that the listing was for a solid gray shirt and that's what the pictures show.


Definitive stripe on the shirt.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Me: "Good morning, I received the shirt that you sent yesterday, however it is a solid blue shirt, rather than the grey striped shirt shown in the listing. Do you have the shirt shown in the listing? Thanks."

The seller:
"The shirt i send you is the one that is pictures i do not even have another land's end shirt. If you take a picture of item you will see it comes out the same as in picture. The shirt is gray not blue and it does not have stripes."


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

gamma68 said:


> I've said it before, I'll say it again. The USPS is the most inefficient organization known to man.


I'm acquainted with a woman who deals in Native American Silver. Her comment about USPS is, "You might as well throw it up in the air and hope the wind blows it to the right address."


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

L-feld said:


> Me: "Good morning, I received the shirt that you sent yesterday, however it is a solid blue shirt, rather than the grey striped shirt shown in the listing. Do you have the shirt shown in the listing? Thanks."
> 
> The seller:
> "The shirt i send you is the one that is pictures i do not even have another land's end shirt. If you take a picture of item you will see it comes out the same as in picture. The shirt is gray not blue and it does not have stripes."


It looks like paisley to me... lol


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

vpkozel said:


> To be fair, the one going to Dothan had to go back a couple of decades......
> 
> Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week. Try the prime rib.


Nice... Yes, it is the land of polyester and corrected grain.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

L-feld said:


> Me: "Good morning, I received the shirt that you sent yesterday, however it is a solid blue shirt, rather than the grey striped shirt shown in the listing. Do you have the shirt shown in the listing? Thanks."
> 
> The seller:
> "The shirt i send you is the one that is pictures i do not even have another land's end shirt. If you take a picture of item you will see it comes out the same as in picture. The shirt is gray not blue and it does not have stripes."


I'll be gentle about this...

The pictured shirt is fugly. A grey striped, or even grey, shirt is, charitably put, a sartorial challenge. Lands End sucks. And eBay is a crap shoot.

What, exactly, were you trying to accomplish here?


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

32rollandrock said:


> I'll be gentle about this...
> 
> The pictured shirt is fugly. A grey striped, or even grey, shirt is, charitably put, a sartorial challenge. Lands End sucks. And eBay is a crap shoot.
> 
> What, exactly, were you trying to accomplish here?


To show that some of the protections ebay has in place actually have a purpose.

Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

L-feld said:


> To show that some of the protections ebay has in place actually have a purpose.
> 
> Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


And the sound of one hand clapping would be?


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Is there a setting in this forum that will keep an "ignored" members posts out of view, even when another member quotes the ignored party?


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> And the sound of one hand clapping would be?


It still sounds like clapping...


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

godan said:


> I'm acquainted with a woman who deals in Native American Silver. Her comment about USPS is, "You might as well throw it up in the air and hope the wind blows it to the right address."


I don't know about every method the USPS has for shipping. But, I have sent 800-900 items through USPS in the 20 months and all have arrived in roughly the time expected. Only one was damaged and I'm still not certain that the buyer did the damaging. I have been quite pleased with USPS. But, 99% of the time I have used priority mail. I think priority mail is a little pricey, but it has been very dependable for me.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

L-feld said:


> Okay guys, I need your help to make sure I'm not nuts. This listing shows a striped shirt, right? I contacted the seller and he is claiming that the listing was for a solid gray shirt and that's what the pictures show.


The item is not as described. Take some pics of the shirt you were sent and open a case in the Resolution Center. You can upload your photos there, as well. Request a refund. You'll get it.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Nobleprofessor said:


> I don't know about every method the USPS has for shipping. But, I have sent 800-900 items through USPS in the 20 months and all have arrived in roughly the time expected. Only one was damaged and I'm still not certain that the buyer did the damaging. I have been quite pleased with USPS. But, 99% of the time I have used priority mail. I think priority mail is a little pricey, but it has been very dependable for me.


This has been my experience too with regular mail services, although I haven't sent or received nearly as much as you. When crossing international boundaries, including the one from U.S. to Canada, regular mail is the way to go since the courier companies are NOT transparent about their costs and have a tendency to just dump packages on the front doorstep!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

gamma68 said:


> Is there a setting in this forum that will keep an "ignored" members posts out of view, even when another member quotes the ignored party?


I think so.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

32rollandrock said:


> And the sound of one hand clapping would be?


What's your damage?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

The age-old argument that drives me nuts is the feedback. Who should leave feedback first, the buyer... or the seller? I have always waited on the buyer to leave feedback before I reciprocated. After all, I am waiting for their approval as the final step in the transaction. However, a friend of mine who is a full-time ebayer, recently received neutral feedback because he didn't leave feedback for a buyer fast enough after the purchase.
You can see what I am talking about here: https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayIS...s=25&iid=-1&de=off&which=neutral&interval=365


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## Acme (Oct 5, 2011)

Feedback? Set it and forget it. Your paranoia is best saved for your defect rating. :devil:


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

gamma68 said:


> Is there a setting in this forum that will keep an "ignored" members posts out of view, even when another member quotes the ignored party?


I am reasonably certain that simply resisting the temptation to read 32rnr's posts will serve you better than any technological assistance. :teacha:


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## gamma68 (Mar 24, 2013)

Shaver said:


> I am reasonably certain that simply resisting the temptation to read 32rnr's posts will serve you better than any technological assistance. :teacha:


I'd rather the text not clog up my screen.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

gamma68 said:


> I'd rather the text not clog up my screen.


If you PM me, I think I can help. I've missed you, bro!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Not directed toward eBay per se, but...

Came home for lunch to find a poster I'd eBay'd on the step. In a flat-rate shipping box, as opposed to shipping tube, that appeared to have been stepped on. Sure enough, the poster was bent from whatever it was that crushed the box, but beyond that, the seller had taped the poster into a roll with adhesive packing tape so that it would stay rolled up inside the flat-rate box that cost more to send than a proper shipping tube would have cost. And the seller has been on eBay since 1996 and has more than 61,800 sales. I have no doubt I'll win the case if the seller doesn't resolve it informally, but still.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

So, if you guys remember I had an issue with a buyer who purchased a pair of my shoes, wore them and decided he no longer wanted them after about a week of having them, well ebay refunded him the money, and let me keep them without charging me. I basically sold them, while still keeping them, and the money. Well, the shoes do not fit so I cannot keep them. I bought them off of the exchange and even asked another guy who had wanted them when they originally were on the exchange, but he no longer wanted them either. I listed them on the exchange, no takers. I put them on ebay, and they sold again for more than I sold them for the first time! I am shipping them off tomorrow, and decided to be a nice guy and give them a proper shine before I boxed them. I took out my sleeking bone (shell) to start cleaning them up, and the bone has two pitt marks I had not noticed scratching the leather!!! what should I do about this? message the guy tell him what happened and offer full refund, send him pictures offer partial refund? work my arms to death trying to buff them out?

I went back at it with the fresh part of the sleeking bone, and spent a good 5 minutes brushing the exact spot, and it's completely gone.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Dmontez said:


> I am shipping them off tomorrow, and decided to be a nice guy and give them a proper shine before I boxed them.


No good deed goes unpunished.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

drlivingston said:


> No good deed goes unpunished.


I went back at them with the fresh part of the sleeking bone and brushed the spot for a good 5 minutes, and the scratches have vanished.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Dmontez said:


> I went back at them with the fresh part of the sleeking bone and brushed the spot for a good 5 minutes, and the scratches have vanished.


Mid a sleeking bone the same as a deer bone? Were these shell cordovan shoes?


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Nobleprofessor said:


> Mid a sleeking bone the same as a deer bone? Were these shell cordovan shoes?


Professor, these are shell cordovan MacNeils, and this is exactly what I used https://leffot.com/shop/index.php/shoe-care/spa-horn-dauber-toothbrush.html

I used the handle portions and kind of used the very bottom held it like a pen and went back and forth on the leather. It leaves a waxy residue, I then spent a good amount of time brushing with the horsehair brush. The condition of the shoes now is amazing. It has something to do with the oils from the bone, and the oils in the leather when brushed vigorously.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Hooray for Carl Icahn:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/ebay-paypal-split-two-separate-companies-n214686


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## CrazyLarry (Jun 17, 2014)

Question. I have a bidder (on an auction that hasn't closed yet) who has marked his feedback as private. I've never seen this before and didn't realize you could do this. You can see the number of green, yellow, and red comments he has received but you can't see the actually comments. All the feedback he has received is green but that doesn't really mean anything since you can't leave a buyer bad feedback anyway. The part that bothers me is you can't see the feedback he's left for others. I like to look at this so I know if the buyer might be trouble - whether he has left multiple negative comments for sellers. Why would someone mark their feedback as private unless he's trouble for sellers? Should I be worried? Right now he is not high bidder - can I block him if he has already bid once? Should I block him? 

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

CrazyLarry said:


> Question. I have a bidder (on an auction that hasn't closed yet) who has marked his feedback as private. I've never seen this before and didn't realize you could do this. You can see the number of green, yellow, and red comments he has received but you can't see the actually comments. All the feedback he has received is green but that doesn't really mean anything since you can't leave a buyer bad feedback anyway. The part that bothers me is you can't see the feedback he's left for others. I like to look at this so I know if the buyer might be trouble - whether he has left multiple negative comments for sellers. Why would someone mark their feedback as private unless he's trouble for sellers? Should I be worried? Right now he is not high bidder - can I block him if he has already bid once? Should I block him?
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.


i have had a few bidders with private feedback. One reason people keep it private is so you can see what they purchased. There is a lot of weird stuff on eBay and some of it could be embarrassing. I also had someone with private feedback buy two new Burberry suits. Their Ebay ID indicated they had a store somewhere. So, I thought it was so someone could see what they bought AND how much they paid.

Ebay has taken all the teeth out of feedback and it doesn't matter for buyers anymore. So, I wouldn't worry about it.


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## CrazyLarry (Jun 17, 2014)

Nobleprofessor said:


> One reason people keep it private is so you can see what they purchased. There is a lot of weird stuff on eBay and some of it could be embarrassing.


Oh, I didn't even think about that. Thanks for the response.


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## Loribyn (Oct 6, 2014)

With those particular words, and the Prometheus icon no less, my goodness that's familiar! Bob, I presume?


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## CrazyLarry (Jun 17, 2014)

Argh... 

"We were recently notified that this payment was made without the account holder's permission, or was the result of a transaction error. We've placed a temporary hold on this transaction while we investigate."

I knew something was funny when the Ebay ID was 2 weeks old and the buyer had already made at least 10 purchases including a Rolex, laptop, and gaming system. Money has been refunded via paypal - but what do I need to do on the Ebay side to make sure they don't charge me the 10% seller fee?


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

https://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/credits.html



CrazyLarry said:


> Argh...
> 
> "We were recently notified that this payment was made without the account holder's permission, or was the result of a transaction error. We've placed a temporary hold on this transaction while we investigate."
> 
> I knew something was funny when the Ebay ID was 2 weeks old and the buyer had already made at least 10 purchases including a Rolex, laptop, and gaming system. Money has been refunded via paypal - but what do I need to do on the Ebay side to make sure they don't charge me the 10% seller fee?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

CrazyLarry said:


> - but what do I need to do on the Ebay side to make sure they don't charge me the 10% seller fee?


When it comes to an eBay issue, ALWAYS call and speak to a customer service representative. If you get one that doesn't speak English, hang up and call back.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

drlivingston said:


> When it comes to an eBay issue, ALWAYS call and speak to a customer service representative. If you get one that doesn't speak English, hang up and call back.


This, this, this--1,000 times, this. Almost always, when someone says that they got screwed by eBay, it turns out that they never picked up a phone and instead tried to get their problem solved via email. There is no substitute for actual conversation.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Loribyn said:


> With those particular words, and the Prometheus icon no less, my goodness that's familiar! Bob, I presume?


I just now read this... Color me intrigued. :biggrin:


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## CrazyLarry (Jun 17, 2014)

Thanks to everyone for the info. I will call. Luckily, I had not shipped the shoes yet so I can just relist them. Just need to avoid the final value fee. Also, I reported the buyer for using someone else's paypal account or credit card. Not sure it will make a difference but it made me feel better.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

I have to vent a little about a problem buyer on ebay. I listed a nice Burberry Silk Sportcoat (50R if anyone is interested) and a few days after I listed it, a buyer bids $69.99. The listing goes for a few more days has several watchers and others are asking questions. THEN, on the last day with only 4 hours to go, the bidder emails me and asks if I would accept a $40 offer. I was a little confused, so I just replied and said you already bid $69.99. Nothing happens until the listing ends. I send the invoice and he starts emailing me and claiming that he didn't bid and that he only offered $40. I explained to him that he did bid 4 days earlier and there was not an option on the listing to make an offer -- especially not for $40. He goes on and on and says he didn't bid. He wants the SC for $40. He says cancel the sale and sell it for $40. 

I have a hard time understanding how someone can bid and not know that they bid. I mean, you have to confirm it and it takes 2-3 steps. I am not sure what I want to do, so I checked his feedback and the last item says it was cancelled. So, I contacted the person who left the feedback that it was cancelled. He said that this same buyer bid on the shoes and then after the auction is over tells the seller they won't fit and he needs to cancel the transaction. 

I was still trying to figure out what I want to do with this guy when he requests my contact information and calls my cell phone. At MIDNIGHT. He leaves this message saying something about he told ebay I was nice guy and that he stood up for me and told them he wasn't upset it was just a misunderstanding! HE ACTED AS IF I DID SOMETHING WRONG! Well, this pissed me off. I wasn't feeling well anyway (I got the flu the day after thanksgiving) and I emailed him and told him not to call me again and I would decide what I wanted to do. He CALLS ME AGAIN, this time at 11:30 PM. Then, he sends me an email saying he has tried to resolve this problem and if I would just sell it to him for $40 he would stop bugging me. 

So, I finally realized, I am dealing with a crazy person and I don't need this hassle. I sent a request to cancel the transaction. He STILL HASN'T AGREED TO IT and ebay is going to open an unpaid item case today. I emailed and told him that I sent a cancellation and he just has to agree and he keeps emailing me saying he never got. 

Sorry for the rant! Now, I have to relist this SC. I might just sell it for $40 to someone else, but I wouldn't sell it to this crazy guy if he offered me triple price!


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

At this point, Nobleprofessor, you need to simply cancel the transaction. Call eBay, get an English speaking person on the phone, and relay the story. You will be able to cancel with no defect rating issue. Do NOT open an unpaid item case against this guy. You said it yourself... He is a "crazy person". You will only be setting yourself up for further communication with him and potentially negative feedback. Cancel the transaction and add him to your blocked list.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

What a turd.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Jovan said:


> What a turd.


precisely!


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

I am a 50r. Pics or link?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Noble, you made your personal contact information available on eBay? That is rather brave of you.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> Noble, you made your personal contact information available on eBay? That is rather brave of you.


I was thinking the same thing. However, I have seen phone numbers of buyers. What's up with that?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

That is odd. If I were a seller, I might leave my number if I had an actual B&M store telephone number, one that wouldn't interrupt my sleep at midnight. Never a home phone or cellphone, though.



32rollandrock said:


> I was thinking the same thing. However, I have seen phone numbers of buyers. What's up with that?


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

If you are having a problem with a buyer/seller, eBay will actually give out some personal information to "aid" in the communication process.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Yikes!



drlivingston said:


> If you are having a problem with a buyer/seller, eBay will actually give out some personal information to "aid" in the communication process.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

This is different. I sometimes see phone numbers when I haven't asked and there has been no issue. I wish eBay would give me phone numbers of deadbeat bidders.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

I am surprised that ebay allows you to send a phone number in a private message. I once had purchased something from a gentleman on ebay who I found out was a member at TOF and sent him my email address in a private message. Ebay blocked that message from being sent out. I suppose they are worried about people bypassing them? Either way they are going to get a cut since you generally have to use paypal.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Duvel said:


> Noble, you made your personal contact information available on eBay? That is rather brave of you.


NO! Absolutely not. But, a buyer (or seller) can request contact information for the other party to a transaction in order to resolve a problem. I got a notice that he had requested it. I didn't get to agree or disagree. It was in Ebay's notice to me providing my name address and phone number to the buyer.


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## Dmontez (Dec 6, 2012)

Nobleprofessor said:


> NO! Absolutely not. But, a buyer (or seller) can request contact information for the other party to a transaction in order to resolve a problem. I got a notice that he had requested it. I didn't get to agree or disagree. It was in Ebay's notice to me providing my name address and phone number to the buyer.


that is absolutely ridiculous! I would love for someone to take ebay to court.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

It makes me a little nervous about ever doing business on eBay again.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Green3 said:


> I am a 50r. Pics or link?


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Duvel said:


> It makes me a little nervous about ever doing business on eBay again.


as often as I get irritated with ebay, it is still the best place for me to sell the stuff that I sell. Yes, it is frustrating sometimes. According to ebay I have had 1152 transactions and there has only been 8 or 9 where there was a problem. ALL of those were resolved. So, the overwhelming majority of transactions have been great. But, sometimes you really have to keep an eye on ebay to make sure they aren't pulling something.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Heck, just have him call you!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Dmontez said:


> that is absolutely ridiculous! I would love for someone to take ebay to court.


Someone--actually a lot of someones--already has, but not, so far as I know, on this issue. eBay has a pretty good track record when it comes to litigation, so I suspect this has all been figured out by lawyers in advance.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

eBay has deeeeep pockets and a team of lawyers who carefully crafted the terms of service to prevent any frivolous lawsuit from ever gaining traction.


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## Nobleprofessor (Jul 18, 2014)

Just in case I am being too dramatic, here is the latest response from the buyer.

He sent me another email asking me to cancel the transaction. I did that yesterday. I checked the resolution center and it still says waiting on buyer's response. So, I email him and tell him this. Here is what he writes back:

"y for me to get our youth employment north or something so does happen by today"

WHAT?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Noble, you are dealing with someone who is one of a few things: mentally disabled, not a native English speaker, or mentally ill. Maybe all three.


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## Spin Evans (Feb 2, 2013)

Duvel said:


> Noble, you are dealing with someone who is one of a few things: mentally disabled, not a native English speaker, or mentally ill. Maybe all three.


As someone who deals with each of those populations on a daily basis, I can say that this individual could very well be all three.

Y'all are good men, eBay sellers. If this happened to me, I would close my eBay account, smash my cellphone Breaking Bad-style, cancel my internet, and change banks for good measure.


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