# Trad Joe



## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

I am no hipster coffee drinker, if you will allow me all pertinent disclaimers in advance. However I do love coffee. I don't want to join a coffee related forum either, but I am interested in what the trads are drinking. I am enjoying a very nice cup this morning, from Peruvian Cajamarca beans I got from my local Dunn Brothers, roasted just the day before. If I may sing its praises, this is a very tasty bean. I found myself crunching on a few like candy while grinding. I haven't taken to tea as much, but am very willing to expand my tastes. My English friends have made very nice teas for me. 

(edit: I realize suddenly, this thread may have been better suited for the Interchange. I hadn't yet actually finished my coffee before I posted it however..please forgive)


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

A few differences I can think of between traditional American-style coffee and other types:

1. The roast. America used to be a light-roast coffee country -- in old roast scales, "New England roast" and "American roast" are two of the lightest.

2. Percolation. A lot of coffee was made in percolators back in the day. My guess for their decline in popularity is because it's easy to cook your coffee in a percolator if you don't pay attention to the temperature.

3. Quirks of older coffee brands. For instance, Yuban used to use "aged" coffee beans in their blends.

For fun, you might enjoy this video from 1961, courtesy of The Coffee Brewing Institute.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Great video. Some classic stuff like boiling water in glass on the stove. I think you don't see that anymore, insurance hazard I guess. 

I do find some of the coffee fanaticism of the last few years a bit tiresome&#8230;but that has been the case in a lot of areas due to our ol' pal the world wide web. Funny to see people on youtube arguing that pouring your hot water is better done clockwise than counter clockwise&#8230;or whatever someone decides he has time to obsess about that day. Of course the fact that we do the same thing with regards to clothing is not lost on me 

I buy Colombian Supremo from Baltimore Coffee in Timonium, MD and a grind it with a small manual Hario burr grinder and brew it in a French Press. That's about it. Coarse grind, 4-6 min depending on how squirrely I am feeling. Every so often I will whip out the Moka Pot.

The truth is I am a tea person, but have started drinking coffee as well in the last few years. Both are good. Usually coffee in the morning and tea later on. [for me]


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## ajasont (Mar 25, 2014)

Danny said:


> The truth is I am a tea person, but have started drinking coffee as well in the last few years. Both are good. Usually coffee in the morning and tea later on. [for me]


I've recently switched to tea myself but have found myself needing more to find it as effective. I like this idea of coffee in the morning and tea later on though and will give it a try.


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

I collect tea, (I gave up booze and couldn't hang out with wine snobs) so I know what you're talking about with different beans. My friends don't understand my love of Taiwanese almond tea with white fungus. 

I also got excited when I found some really good Croatian herbal (tea) and I still love buying exotic brands and blends to experiment.

C.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Tea I am more well versed in and I have probably gone through every loose black tea there is. I am a fan of the heavier Indian black teas. I tried a bunch of vendors out and decided that Harney and Sons just has really excellent stuff so I basically just order tea from them. This is my most sipped tea and I buy it in 1lb bags from Harney:



It strikes me the way the English Tea of my imagination should taste.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Danny said:


> Some classic stuff like boiling water in glass on the stove. I think you don't see that anymore, insurance hazard I guess.


Huh? Glass fell out of favor for whatever reason, but my tea kettle, purchased new, and recently, is all glass with a plastic handle. I don't know why it would be an insurance hazard. I prefer glass because it is totally tasteless.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

My wife and I have a Keurig, but I only use a French press (Bodum) and a moka pot (Bialetti). In the moka pot, I use primarily Lavazza or Illy (when I have time to sit and enjoy it), or Cafe Bustelo (when I'm running out the door or just need a strong cup). In the French Press, I use some Starbucks blends (French Roast, Italian Roast, Casi Cielo, and Anniversary Blend), Peet's, Lavazza, Cafe Du Monde, Community Coffee, or Cafe Ole (HEB coffee, for those in Texas). All of these are readily available in my area, and I buy only whole beans. 

At some point, I will own a high end espresso machine. We're looking at getting an entry level DeLonghi in the near future to hold us over, but I'd really like to get a Jura, Gaggia, or Rancilio Silva unit.

I also drink a ton of tea. My go-to is Twinings, but there's a local blender that sells under the name "Tea is for Texas", they have some excellent blends (both straight herbal and hearbal/tea blends). I also like a lot of what Teavana puts out - I know it's owned by Starbucks, but they have a great variety (and mostly fresh too). For day to day standard though, Twinings Earl Grey.

yeah, I like coffee and tea lol.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

French press. Whole beans. Simple. Good.


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

Morning pot - Community CoffeE, Dark Roast, in a basic Mr. Coffee served black
Day/Evening/Dessert - Nesspresso Ristretto, Arpeggio, and rarely Decaf with one lump of sugar and whole milk warmed in m'wave.

The latter machine is a bit pricey, but OMG what an easy, great cup of coffee. Actually paid for itself, though, as I now make Mrs. Smoke a cup on her lunch break at home instead of taking her a $4 cup to work.

Note: Nesspresso != Keurig


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Best.

I prefer a french roast bean, sometimes sumatra.



32rollandrock said:


> French press. Whole beans. Simple. Good.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

Thank you gents for suffering the coffee talk. I am taking notes, especially in the tea area. A few years ago a man in North Ft. Worth opened a coffee shop that was short-lived, but ahead of its time I think. He was from Egypt, and made all styles of coffee. In one morning, I was intrigued to give Turkish Coffee a try. He explained it was a "process", but I was patient. It was perhaps the first time though I ever really "tasted" the bean, fully, with all, and I mean "all" of the various notes and qualities, like one would associate with the fine wine tasting. It was very floral. It was fruity. It was nutty. It was roasty, etc, etc, all of it. Sublime. Maybe the best cup I've ever had, though I don't think Turkish has caught on greatly, I imagine it will as the fad goes "Extreme!!!" A family member picked up a souvenir cezve' in Izmir for me, and some Turkish grind. I made it myself a few times but did not perfect it.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The wife prefers coffee from her Keurig, I think because of the convenience. While not a fan of the Keurig, personally, I prefer my coffee coming from an aged Bunn drip unit. My standard for a good cup of Joe used to be, the stronger the better, but as the years pass, my tastes seem to be mellowing. Starbucks Blonde Roast seems to be my preferred poison these days!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I love coffee maybe I love it a bit too much maybe that's why I'm so hyper these days. I drink one before work in the morning, another cup before I start work getting there, another cup at break time and another one when I get home to relax.


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## MythReindeer (Jul 3, 2013)

We use a French press. I used to live in a very small apartment (carriage house, actually) and my girlfriend was not much of a coffee person, so we each got small French presses for the low space/money commitments. Now we're used to the coffee a press makes and got one suitable for two people. We grind whole beans in a burr grinder that was a kind gift. I was a graduate student when I lived in that carriage house, so money was tight...I actually ground my coffee with a mortar and pestle!

There is a small coffee roaster in our neighborhood. When you enter the shop you walk right past the roaster itself, often in use and tended by the shop owner. We usually ask for something roasted in the last day or so. It's nice to try many different sorts. We also get chicory (reminds us of New Orleans) and loose leaf tea there. All of that, and supporting a local business.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Where else to get Trad joe but from Trad-er Joe's?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

This place: https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2011/05/the-50-best-college-coffee-shops-in-america/java-house is the best coffee place for hundreds of miles in any direction. Pour-over coffee, made by the cup. Outstanding. I am fortunate to live very close to it.


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## mhj (Oct 27, 2010)

I've roasted my own coffee for many years and have just about every brewing device available. However last month I had a bad case of the flu and lost my taste for coffee, I am starting to get a craving for it again. I've been drinking tea in the interim.


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## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

I was a fan of coffee from a French Press, but was less a fan of the clean up afterward. Heard about the Clever Coffee Dripper somewhere -- sort of the love child of a French Press and a pourover -- and really like it. It takes a basic #4 paper filter. Purists measure their coffee very carefully. I just dump in two rounded tablespoons of finely ground fresh beans -- been on a Sumatran kick lately -- pour in water just off the boil, put the lid on top and let it sit for about four minutes, with a quick stir about half-way through. Put the dripper on top of a pre-heated two-cup travel mug, wait about 30 seconds and add a splash of half-and-half.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

I either buy beans from a local specialty-coffee roaster or roast my own. I brew with a V60 pour-over every day, and will mix it up with a Chemex, French press, or Aeropress on occasion.


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## thegovteach (Dec 2, 2012)

Seaport....dark roast...in a Mr. Coffee. 
Old school and as a friend of mine says, " a cup of coona** " then his last name in Boudreaux....


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

32rollandrock said:


> French press. Whole beans. Simple. Good.


French press here too, although my wife uses the DeLonghi espresso machine I bought her about 18 months ago. 
I prefer the french press coffee.
Have a burr grinder too.

But this thread permits me to briefly vent at the frustration of trying to buy a cup of coffee when out and about. All the chain coffee shops with the exception of Starbucks seem to have abandoned the regular drip coffee and try to sell you "an Americano" when you order. 
Ask for a coffee and you'll get "Oh, a regular Americano, right"? 
Me: "No, I don't want an Americano. I'd like a coffee.

Cue blank looks from the teenage girl behind the counter.

Americano tastes different and is about twice the price. In some places it's the only option, because plain old coffee has disappeared off the menu.
I rarely go into a Starbucks as I have a sort of personal boycott of the place, but they seem to be the one place with filter coffee on their menu. But still, on a recent trip to Dublin, I had to go there for breakfast one morning and got the same thing. "An Americano"? "No. A filter coffee. It's up there on the big board behind you".

Is this just an issue in Europe? A friend from Boston complains about this when he comes to Europe, as if getting a regular coffee isn't problem in the USA


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Most shops here will serve you an Americano if you order decaf, especially after midday. I've been told that's because there isn't enough demand for decaf for it to be worth their making a whole pot.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

thegovteach said:


> Seaport....dark roast...in a Mr. Coffee.
> Old school and as a friend of mine says, " a cup of coona** " then his last name in Boudreaux....


I like Seaport a lot. I first received some as a gift on a trip to Beaumont/Orange/Port Arthur a couple years ago, but I've bought it occasionally at HEB.

Also, Independence Coffee Co is good.


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## Kreiger (Nov 6, 2011)

Odradek said:


> Is this just an issue in Europe? A friend from Boston complains about this when he comes to Europe, as if getting a regular coffee isn't problem in the USA


Boston is the homeland of Dunkin' Doughnuts- certainly a city where a cup of 'regular' coffee is easy to come by. I prefer filter/press/drip etc. to the americano as well and do not have trouble finding a quality cup, even at higher-quality/independent shops. I don't have experience with decaf, so I can't comment there.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Cowboy coffee. Eggshell optional. With Wrangler jeans, one of the two most useful things I learned after becoming involved with stock raising.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

I have the following coffee-making devices: french press, Keurig, Nespresso, and pour-over cone.

Mostly, I use the french press with Illy or Cafe Du Monde. The Nespresso is great, but I am often out of pods as I put off ordering them online or dropping in to Bloomingdale's. I mostly use the Nespresso for guests or weekends anyway, though. The Keurig was a gift and I do not use it often at all.


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

Howard said:


> I love coffee maybe I love it a bit too much maybe that's why I'm so hyper these days. I drink one before work in the morning, another cup before I start work getting there, another cup at break time and another one when I get home to relax.


I think you're okay, Howard. I need a cup of coffee to get ready for my first cup of coffee.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

LordSmoke said:


> I think you're okay, Howard. I need a cup of coffee to get ready for my first cup of coffee.


I drink 6 shots of espresso over ice on summer mornings, is that bad?


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

Tilton said:


> ... The Nespresso is great, but I am often out of pods as I put off ordering them online or dropping in to Bloomingdale's. I mostly use the Nespresso for guests or weekends anyway, though...


For interested readers, Nespresso is great at shipping pods. Order online, and they arrive in 24-48 hours.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Odradek said:


> French press here too, although my wife uses the DeLonghi espresso machine I bought her about 18 months ago.
> I prefer the french press coffee.
> Have a burr grinder too.
> 
> ...


Amen. I loathe Starbucks, if only because of the silly names they attach to the size of the cups. I don't want a venti or a grande, I want a large cup of coffee, dammit, and don't call it Americano, whatever that is. Generally speaking, the fancier the name attached to any given simple item, the more suspicious I am of the purveyor. I rarely go to Starbucks anymore, but when I worked at an office that was close by, I fell in, largely because the local independent shop was simply too expensive and my employer at the time stopped providing coffee at the office--you couldn't get a cup even from a vending machine. I like to have a shot or two of espresso added to the cup, and the independent charged something like $4.50. It was half the price at Starbucks--I'm willing to pay more to a local business, but not that much more. I can't remember what name Starbucks called a cup of coffee with a shot of espresso in it. Black eye or something like that. Totally ridiculous.

I very much enjoy coffee nudges, which I've never seen outside the Pacific Northwest. Real simple: While the French press is doing its thing, pour a healthy shot of brandy in your coffee cup, then a healthy splash of Kahlua, then pour in the coffee and top with a dollop of whipped cream. Depending on how much booze you've poured, you might need to blast it in the microwave for a couple seconds before adding the whipped cream so that the drink doesn't end up lukewarm.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

orange fury said:


> I drink 6 shots of espresso over ice on summer mornings, is that bad?


Once frequented a coffee place where the first shot of espresso was $1 and every shot afterward was 25 cents, no matter how many shots you ordered. Depending on how late I'd stayed up the night before, I'd do five or six shots in a swallow or two. Wasn't easy on the gastrointestinal system, but it did wake one up.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

LordSmoke said:


> For interested readers, Nespresso is great at shipping pods. Order online, and they arrive in 24-48 hours.


Indeed. And they're the cheapest place to get them, hands down. Bdales is good, though, because you can try before you buy.


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## shadoman (Jun 8, 2014)

Yeah.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Exactly. Stupid in three languages.


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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

I lived in Miami for many years and every time I go back to visit, I always grab some Cuban coffee or Cortadito. Strong but I do miss it.


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## Odradek (Sep 1, 2011)

32rollandrock said:


> Amen. I loathe Starbucks, if only because of the silly names they attach to the size of the cups. I don't want a venti or a grande, I want a large cup of coffee, dammit, and don't call it Americano, whatever that is. Generally speaking, the fancier the name attached to any given simple item, the more suspicious I am of the purveyor.





shadoman said:


> Yeah.


Yeah !
Damn right. 
That guy in the clip speaks for me.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

It's easy to make fun of Starbucks, and I am not enough of a lifelong coffee geek to really be able to have an opinion on it, but I will anyway….I think in the end they probably did more good for coffee culture in this country than bad. That said, I never go there. In fact, I don't think I generally buy brewed tea or coffee out, just make it home.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ Starbucks coffee is enjoyed by incredibly undiscerning palates.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Here's the thing about Starbucks: It's reliable. You know what you're getting, no matter where you are. When I have to travel, unless I know that a local place is better, I know that I can walk into any Starbucks and get a cup of coffee that is pretty much like a cup of coffee at any other Starbucks. Is it great? I like the coffee at my local favorite, Java House, in Iowa City, much, much better. But it is not all that bad, either, and it is often much better than a local shop.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ yeah, sure, reliable. That _*is*_ great.

If you consistently require a vaguely coffee flavoured warm beverage with no redeeming qualities whatsoever then Starbucks is there for you.

The thieving crooks ought to be drummed out of the UK.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

No redeeming qualities whatsoever? I think it's just you limeys don't know how to brew a decent cup of coffee, full stop. Best to stick to your bloomin' tea.



Shaver said:


> ^ yeah, sure, reliable. That _*is*_ great.
> 
> If you consistently require a vaguely coffee flavoured warm beverage with no redeeming qualities whatsoever then Starbucks is there for you.
> 
> The thieving crooks ought to be drummed out of the UK.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ There are no Starbucks in Italy... can you guess why?


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Shaver said:


> ^ There are no Starbucks in Italy... can you guess why?


Well, you can't ship shoes to Italy, either. I can't guess why. What's your point? That a culture that has given us square-toed shoes, acrylic sweaters that cost a zillion dollars and linebacker shoulder padding somehow has the market on good taste when it comes to coffee?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ Point being that Starbucks coffee is dross and (despite their infiltration of 65 other countries) even they recognise that they would fail dismally in the spiritual home of coffee.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

It's a valid point but one that I don't share. I think it is good coffee, sometimes, depending on how much my brain is craving caffeine, it's even pretty great.



Shaver said:


> ^ Point being that Starbucks coffee is dross and (despite their infiltration of 65 other countries) even they recognise that they would fail dismally in the spiritual home of coffee.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Because there's really, really good coffee there that is already much better than what Starbucks could offer? I think you're missing my point that I don't think it's the greatest coffee in the world. It's just not as bad as you're making it out to be.



Shaver said:


> ^ There are no Starbucks in Italy... can you guess why?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

godan said:


> Cowboy coffee. Eggshell optional. With Wrangler jeans, one of the two most useful things I learned after becoming involved with stock raising.


What is cowboy coffee?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

orange fury said:


> I drink 6 shots of espresso over ice on summer mornings, is that bad?


what about hot?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Mr. Coffee + Folgers


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## thegovteach (Dec 2, 2012)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Mr. Coffee + Folgers


And nothing wrong with that either....


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Shaver said:


> ^ Point being that Starbucks coffee is dross and (despite their infiltration of 65 other countries) even they recognise that they would fail dismally in the spiritual home of coffee.


Italy is the spiritual home of Lamborghini, but they still sell Fiats in Rome. Just sayin'.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^But not Starbucks.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Shaver said:


> ^But not Starbucks.


What does North Korea have in common with Italy? No Starbucks.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

^ different reasons though. Very different. Try to focus.


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

I have no desire to switch brands, even if others might call it trad.

Saying that, I rarely have Starbucks coffee, even if at Starbucks. I'm more of a cool lime refresher guy. If I have more than one coffee, I get jittery and can't sleep. Even if the coffee is at 4PM and I'm in bed around midnight. Just stays in my system too long.

C.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Shaver said:


> ^ different reasons though. Very different. Try to focus.


How can you be sure? Been to North Korea lately? And are you sure that Italy is, in fact, the birth place of coffee? Ever seen anyone harvesting coffee beans in Italy? In fact, a quick Wikipedia check reveals that the birthplace of coffee is/was...Yemen (where there is also a paucity of Starbucks). So, perhaps North Korea is not such a stretch. You are correct in that Italy was, apparently, the first European country where coffee became popular, but you are giving, methinks, short shrift to our brethren in the Middle East, where the beverage was enjoyed long before anyone in Europe poured a cup of joe. This sort of thinking, perhaps, helps explain why so many people in the Middle East are so mad at people in the West who re-write history and appropriate/steal for Western civilization things that originated in Arabian lands. I doubt that anyone in Yemen would grasp the meaning of anyone who ordered a venti or grande, and for that, they should be congratulated.


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

Lots of Starbucks hate, I don't get it. I guess people just like to have things to complain about. Any Starbucks I've ever been to has been just fine if a customer asks for a small/medium/large, barista never misses a beat. I buy a lot of starbucks beans to use at home and I very much enjoy getting Americanos and lattes at the storefronts. I think their drip coffee sits for too long, thus my preference for their Americanos. I think the hate is misguided, even if most of what you see people walking around with are coffee derivative abominations. If I were forced to pick a clothing analogue, I'd say maybe Burberry; a bunch of modern derivative junk that I would never wear, but that iconic tan trench though...


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## catside (Oct 7, 2010)

I am fine with Starbucks which will serve me consistent quality of coffee, particularly like Verona and their holiday blends. I like my coffee dark roasted except if I am drinking Turkish -every day after dinner-, than I use actual Turkish coffee.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> How can you be sure? Been to North Korea lately? And are you sure that Italy is, in fact, the birth place of coffee? Ever seen anyone harvesting coffee beans in Italy? In fact, a quick Wikipedia check reveals that the birthplace of coffee is/was...Yemen (where there is also a paucity of Starbucks). So, perhaps North Korea is not such a stretch. You are correct in that Italy was, apparently, the first European country where coffee became popular, but you are giving, methinks, short shrift to our brethren in the Middle East, where the beverage was enjoyed long before anyone in Europe poured a cup of joe. This sort of thinking, perhaps, helps explain why so many people in the Middle East are so mad at people in the West who re-write history and appropriate/steal for Western civilization things that originated in Arabian lands. I doubt that anyone in Yemen would grasp the meaning of anyone who ordered a venti or grande, and for that, they should be congratulated.


Focus.

None of the notions outlined above and that you seemingly wish to contest can be found, nor are alluded to, in my posts.

I am somewhat surprised that a forum broadly dedicated to fine quality would accept such slop as Starbucks purvey.


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

Shaver, I think the central issue is that you seem to be attempting to pass off your blatant hatred of Starbucks coffee as some sort of objective fact. Simply because you, and even many other people, don't like it, doesn't make it patently bad, in the same sense that just because I, and many other people, like it doesn't make it necessarily good. But, if we believe in the efficiency of markets, there's enough people out there that find the coffee good enough to spend enough money on it to make the company ridiculously profitable. Taken another way, if the product were as bad as you claim, you and your lot wouldn't have to conjure up ways to have them thrown out of the UK, they'd go out of business and your problem would resolve itself.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

I am not broadly dedicated to fine quality. I grew up in the Midwest, at a time when no one, other than Italian-American immigrants, perhaps, drank good coffee. So I'd prefer to continue regarding it as a rare treat. I drive a rubbish car, and drink $8/bottle wine with dinner. I wouldn't mind having a burr grinder &c. at home, and happily spring for $4 cappucinos when I'm near one of the DC area's better coffee houses (recommended: Pitango, at the Reston Town Center), but you know, sometimes it's just not that important to me. 

I'm probably committing multiple gaucheries here, but move it on over to WAYWT if you'd like to comment. It's a Hardy Amies tie, by the way.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

And do we believe in the *ahem* efficiency of the markets? I credit my fellow members with more intelligence. Still, drink your 'Victory' coffee if it makes you happy.



ThatDudeOrion said:


> Shaver, I think the central issue is that you seem to be attempting to pass off your blatant hatred of Starbucks coffee as some sort of objective fact. Simply because you, and even many other people, don't like it, doesn't make it patently bad, in the same sense that just because I, and many other people, like it doesn't make it necessarily good. But, if we believe in the efficiency of markets, there's enough people out there that find the coffee good enough to spend enough money on it to make the company ridiculously profitable. Taken another way, if the product were as bad as you claim, you and your lot wouldn't have to conjure up ways to have them thrown out of the UK, they'd go out of business and your problem would resolve itself.


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## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

My daughter loves Starbucks. She's 13 and gets a Java Chip Frappuccino. She thinks it's delicious.

I, on the other hand, drink coffee, and I'm not a Starbucks fan. I prefer darker roasts, but based on my experiences at Starbucks, the dark roasts are simply roasted too long. They're burnt, or at least that's the dominant taste. 

So she runs in and gets her Java Chip Frappuccino and I wait in the car. And everybody's happy.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

You called Italy "the spiritual home of coffee." I think that's close enough to "birth place of coffee," but if not, I apologize. My point was, folks were drinking coffee outside Italy long before anyone whose last name ends in a vowel learned how to prepare a cup of joe. Cheers.



Shaver said:


> Focus.
> 
> None of the notions outlined above and that you seemingly wish to contest can be found, nor are alluded to, in my posts.
> 
> I am somewhat surprised that a forum broadly dedicated to fine quality would accept such slop as Starbucks purvey.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Shaver said:


> And do we believe in the *ahem* efficiency of the markets? I credit my fellow members with more intelligence. Still, drink your 'Victory' coffee if it makes you happy.


I doesn't make me "happy." I have plenty of other things to make me happy. Moreover, I am perfectly capable of discriminating as to quality, and used to light-roast beans myself in a repurposed popcorn popper...when I was in grad school...and unmarried...and had no one to worry about but myself.

I regret that you were wrong to attribute more intelligence to me than I actually possess, but no one is good at everything.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

That's awfully decent of you. Apology accepted my friend.



32rollandrock said:


> You called Italy "the spiritual home of coffee." I think that's close enough to "birth place of coffee," but if not, I apologize. My point was, folks were drinking coffee outside Italy long before anyone whose last name ends in a vowel learned how to prepare a cup of joe. Cheers.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Chin up old boy. We must all live in optimism that our lot may yet improve.



SlideGuitarist said:


> I doesn't make me "happy." I have plenty of other things to make me happy. Moreover, I am perfectly capable of discriminating as to quality, and used to light-roast beans myself in a repurposed popcorn popper...when I was in grad school...and unmarried...and had no one to worry about but myself.
> 
> I regret that you were wrong to attribute more intelligence to me than I actually possess, but no one is good at everything.


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

Shaver said:


> And do we believe in the *ahem* efficiency of the markets? I credit my fellow members with more intelligence. Still, drink your 'Victory' coffee if it makes you happy.


 I mean, it's only the foundation of the western, and increasingly prevalent in eastern, read global economy.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I'm more of a Dunkin Donuts coffee kind of guy, anybody like their coffee?


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Ah yes. The global economy. How's that been working out for you lately?



ThatDudeOrion said:


> I mean, it's only the foundation of the western, and increasingly prevalent in eastern, read global economy.


----------



## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

Fraser Tartan said:


>


I like it!


----------



## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

ThatDudeOrion said:


> Shaver, I think the central issue is that you seem to be attempting to pass off your blatant hatred of Starbucks coffee as some sort of objective fact. Simply because you, and even many other people, don't like it, doesn't make it patently bad, in the same sense that just because I, and many other people, like it doesn't make it necessarily good. But, if we believe in the efficiency of markets, there's enough people out there that find the coffee good enough to spend enough money on it to make the company ridiculously profitable. Taken another way, if the product were as bad as you claim, you and your lot wouldn't have to conjure up ways to have them thrown out of the UK, they'd go out of business and your problem would resolve itself.


Coffee, brewed coffee, it's taste has much to do with temperature. Namely that it was *brewed at the correct temperature and especially not overheated or boiled!!* Over the past few years I have seen several articles, usually in local pacific northwest papers, that mention how burnt Starbucks coffee is at many of their locations.

There is no way to objectively, factually, state that Starbucks coffee is not good,....And consequently there is no way for you to objectively state that Starbucks is good either!

Many of us in the pacific northwest would rather have McDonald's coffee than Starbucks. Better yet, I'd rather *not have any coffee* verses a cup of Starbucks. My subjective opinion, (no less valid than yours or anyone's subjective opinion) is that not only is Starbucks unremarkable, but it's overpriced swill.

Not long ago I heard a radio soundbite interview with a marketing bigwig from Starbucks. When asked where he thought the Starbucks brand would be in ten or twenty years, he said that he envisioned a "Starbucks Family" with Starbucks furniture, appliances, etc. The thought occurred to me, why don't you just concentrate on making a decent cup of drip coffee?

Starbucks sucks for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that they serve, in many locations, burnt coffee.


----------



## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

Aaand heading to the exchange in 3 . . 2 . .

As far as coffee goes, though, I typically head over to the nearby corner bakery around 5 or 6 and get a nibble and a cup of coffee with a shot. Counterculture coffee and fresh pastries are hard to beat, especially when a coconut macaroon, a chocolate chip cookie, a cup of coffee and a shot of expresso cost just under $5.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

Howard said:


> I'm more of a Dunkin Donuts coffee kind of guy, anybody like their coffee?


I loved their coffee in those days when I could sit with the oldsters at the swivel stools and curved, laminated counter bar-top in an "actual" Dunkin' Donuts store. Remember those? The "jelly" donuts back then could not be beat. And they also had twice as many kinds of donuts. But that was a long, long, long time ago. Sigh.


----------



## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Shaver said:


> Ah yes. The global economy. How's that been working out for you lately?


Most of us who grew up in the relative privilege of a developed society have finally figured out that we were sold a pack of lies by corporate giants who purchased our political process through legalized bribery, we call "Contributions." In the name of profit they then exported our industries to the lowest bidder countrys.

Best yet Shaver, these same corporate "Citizens" with free speech rights reinforced by the U.S. Supreme Court case Citizens United are not done. Over the next 10-20 years the U.S. will seeing much more of U.K. style "Council housing" as a there continues to be a shortage of opportunity for living wage jobs among our masses.

But we're just talking about coffee right?:icon_pale:


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Just give me some damned coffee!


----------



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> Most of us who grew up in the relative privilege of a developed society have finally figured out that we were sold a pack of lies by corporate giants who purchased our political process through legalized bribery we call "Contributions" and exporting our industries to the lowest bidder country.
> 
> Best yet Shaver, these same forces are not done. We'll be seeing much more of U.K. style "Council housing" in the U.S. as a there continues to be a shortage of opportunity for living wage jobs among our masses.
> 
> *But this is just about coffee right?*


What gave you that idea?


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Nothing motivates me to set fire to a man in a cage greater than a shortage of opportunity for living wage jobs and a burned cup of expensive coffee!!

irate:


----------



## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)




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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

I just Googled "newyorker coffee cartoons," thinking that I'd turn up a cartoon that used to hang outside my cubicle. There must be 100s.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Yep.


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## ThatDudeOrion (Jun 17, 2014)

What the hell are you and Shaver going on about? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Starbucks is the beneficiary of gov't pork barrel spending, or subsidies, or any sort of support that would be artificially propping them up and allowing them to continue being profitable while making a product nobody wants. The free market has spoken, people want their stuff, want it so bad in fact the market will bear them pricing coffee drinks at $4-5 or more, in spite of a plethora of reasonable alternatives. Again, this is a matter of taste, literally, and is thus subjective, however, some of these things being called into question are not; the efficacy of the free market, capitalism, etc. Are you guys proposing some alternative form of global economy where we can still afford to dress like we do?



127.72 MHz said:


> Most of us who grew up in the relative privilege of a developed society have finally figured out that we were sold a pack of lies by corporate giants who purchased our political process through legalized bribery, we call "Contributions." In the name of profit they then exported our industries to the lowest bidder countrys.
> 
> Best yet Shaver, these same corporate "Citizens" with free speech rights reinforced by the U.S. Supreme Court case Citizens United are not done. Over the next 10-20 years the U.S. will seeing much more of U.K. style "Council housing" as a there continues to be a shortage of opportunity for living wage jobs among our masses.
> 
> But we're just talking about coffee right?:icon_pale:


----------



## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

This thread needs a little levity:

"I think I will have another cup of coffee."
Jim never has a second cup at home.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

127.72 MHz said:


> Most of us who grew up in the relative privilege of a developed society have finally figured out that we were sold a pack of lies by corporate giants who purchased our political process through legalized bribery, we call "Contributions." In the name of profit they then exported our industries to the lowest bidder countrys.
> 
> Best yet Shaver, these same corporate "Citizens" with free speech rights reinforced by the U.S. Supreme Court case Citizens United are not done. Over the next 10-20 years the U.S. will seeing much more of U.K. style "Council housing" as a there continues to be a shortage of opportunity for living wage jobs among our masses.
> 
> But we're just talking about coffee right?:icon_pale:


Don't forget "you know who!!"



> Washington (CNN)The Clinton Foundation defended lifting its self-imposed ban on accepting foreign government donations on Wednesday, coming under scrutiny as Hillary Clinton is expected to run for president in the coming months.
> 
> During Clinton's four years as secretary of state, the foundation banned all donations from foreign governments due to conflict of interest it would pose for the foundation and the Obama administration. Clinton stepped down as America's top diplomat in early 2013 and the foundation began, once again, to collect donations from foreign governments like Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Oman.


https://www.cnn.com/2015/02/19/politics/clinton-foundation-defends-foreign-donations/

But at this point, really, what difference does it make??


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

ThatDudeOrion said:


> What the hell are you and Shaver going on about? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Starbucks is the beneficiary of gov't pork barrel spending, or subsidies, or any sort of support that would be artificially propping them up and allowing them to continue being profitable while making a product nobody wants. The free market has spoken, people want their stuff, want it so bad in fact the market will bear them pricing coffee drinks at $4-5 or more, in spite of a plethora of reasonable alternatives. Again, this is a matter of taste, literally, and is thus subjective, however, some of these things being called into question are not; the efficacy of the free market, capitalism, etc. Are you guys proposing some alternative form of global economy where we can still afford to dress like we do?


There's definitely not enough space to adequately address your question as to what "We're going on about." The issue requires critical thought and certainly cannot be interpreted by someone who is starting from the premise that the free market takes precedence over anything and everything. William Greider addresses this issue very well in his NY Times best seller "One World Ready or Not." All other models of capitalism from the Europeans to the Pacific rim nations see our "Profit at all cost" model for what it is, capitalism without a face that is beholden to no one except the mighty shareholder.

No one is proposing some alternative form of global economy, just that people wake up and see what the U.S. model of capitalism has become and where it has brought us. There's no reason why we can't control the monster but as many political pundits know it will require massive disobedience to dislodge the legalized bribery that characterizes the U.S. model of capitalism.

You asked.


----------



## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Let's avoid making this about politics and getting the thread locked, deleted, or Interchanged.


----------



## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

You Sir are a man after my own heart.

A pox on globalism.

I'm with Special agent Dale Cooper, I like to drink 'damn fine coffee'.



127.72 MHz said:


> Most of us who grew up in the relative privilege of a developed society have finally figured out that we were sold a pack of lies by corporate giants who purchased our political process through legalized bribery, we call "Contributions." In the name of profit they then exported our industries to the lowest bidder countrys.
> 
> Best yet Shaver, these same corporate "Citizens" with free speech rights reinforced by the U.S. Supreme Court case Citizens United are not done. Over the next 10-20 years the U.S. will seeing much more of U.K. style "Council housing" as a there continues to be a shortage of opportunity for living wage jobs among our masses.
> 
> But we're just talking about coffee right?:icon_pale:


----------



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Orgetorix said:


> Let's avoid making this about politics and getting the thread locked, deleted, or Interchanged.


I have a coffee stain on my BB OCBD. What's the best way to get it out?


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Depends. Is it real coffee or.......? :devil:



32rollandrock said:


> I have a coffee stain on my BB OCBD. What's the best way to get it out?


----------



## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Yeah. If you dampened the fabric and then squeezed it over a cup, it might give you a bit of a mid-afternoon boost. No need to run out to Starbucks!


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## BillyB (Feb 14, 2015)

Great thread.

In Hawaii, the obvious choice is Kona. Go into any Food or Drug store and the coffee section is loaded with Kona and Kona Blends. I like it very much, but can't say it's my favorite.

For packaged ground coffee, I have to give it to the Germans. "Jacob's Kronung" is my favorite. By far. Smooth, flavorful, and simply delicious to my taste. 








I don't mind Starbucks. They sure are easy to find in most cases. When there, I prefer their new "Flat White" or a "Latte" rather than Coffee. When I'm in London, I am always amazed at the lines at Starbucks. I pass on Starbucks when I'm in Europe. I prefer Caffe Nero.

When in Chicago, I always seek out a Lavazza Coffee shop. I prefer Lavazza to anything I've found in Chicago.

When I'm on the West Coast of the US, it's Peet's Coffee. In Miami, definitely Cuban Coffee. And the list goes on.

At home, if I'm not making an Espresso type of drink, I prefer Folger's 1/2 caff via drip. It's easy, drinkable and does not get me wired, so I can drink more than one cup. If wiring-up was not a factor, I'd do Jacob's Kronung or Lavazza or Kona at home. I actually have a Corning Glass Percolator that I've had since the 80's. It makes fantastic coffee if you don't mind waiting and perking it.

Now I'm in the mood for coffee. Maybe "Jamaican Blue Mountain". It is supposed to be the best coffee in the world according to many, but to me, it's like Kona. It's good, but not the best I have ever had.

Coffee taste is somewhat subjective.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Monocle said:


> I loved their coffee in those days when I could sit with the oldsters at the swivel stools and curved, laminated counter bar-top in an "actual" Dunkin' Donuts store. Remember those? The "jelly" donuts back then could not be beat. And they also had twice as many kinds of donuts. But that was a long, long, long time ago. Sigh.


I do drink Dunkin Donuts coffee, I like it with cream and 3 sugars nice and sweet tastes like candy with a Boston Cream Donut, a delicious combination.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Woofa said:


> This thread needs a little levity:
> 
> "I think I will have another cup of coffee."
> Jim never has a second cup at home.


We all need our first cup in the morning.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Shaver said:


> Depends. Is it real coffee or.......? :devil:


It has to be real coffee.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Shaver said:


> Depends. Is it real coffee or.......? :devil:


It came from Yemen, so I'm guessing it's real.


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## BillyB (Feb 14, 2015)

Monocle said:


> I loved their coffee in those days when I could sit with the oldsters at the swivel stools and curved, laminated counter bar-top in an "actual" Dunkin' Donuts store. Remember those? The "jelly" donuts back then could not be beat. And they also had twice as many kinds of donuts. But that was a long, long, long time ago. Sigh.


You got my vote, sir.

I miss the days of the old Duncan Donut shops. And the "original" Dunkin Donuts "Dunkin Donuts" with the little tabs to hold while you dunked the donut in coffee.

Dunkin Donuts Coffee is wonderful, especially if you grew up with it or drank it when you were in College to cram for finals. 

Like some other brands, I have to be careful as it's a bit too much Caffeine for me and wires me up a bit too much, but I love (and miss) the taste.

Whenever I go to the Northeast, I always track down a Dunkin Donuts shop. I have one of their travel mugs floating around here somewhere.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

32rollandrock said:


> I have a coffee stain on my BB OCBD. What's the best way to get it out?


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Tilton said:


> I have the following coffee-making devices: french press, Keurig, Nespresso, and pour-over cone.
> 
> Mostly, I use the french press with Illy or Cafe Du Monde. The Nespresso is great, but I am often out of pods as I put off ordering them online or dropping in to Bloomingdale's. I mostly use the Nespresso for guests or weekends anyway, though. The Keurig was a gift and I do not use it often at all.


Keurig? Nespresso? This ain't Trad ! This is technosexual , sir : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technosexual


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Howard said:


> I'm more of a Dunkin Donuts coffee kind of guy, anybody like their coffee?


Consumer Reports rated Dunkin' Donuts over Starbucks and, furthermore, your local filling station/garage probably tastes better than Starbucks.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

32rollandrock said:


> I have a coffee stain on my BB OCBD. What's the best way to get it out?


Just spill some of this stuff on said stain : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol) :biggrin: :drunken_smilie:


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Per all the talk about Dunkin Donuts, my parents used to buy me the giant sacks of Dunkin donuts coffee when I was in college, pretty decent stuff actually.

per Starbucks and their tendency to burn coffee- when buying the bagged coffee, one of the worst offenders is their Espresso Roast. VERY over roasted in my experience, their French roast is much better for espresso. They do a very good job IMHO with their Casi Cielo and Anniversary Blend coffees though.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I like many of the Starbucks brews. I even like their mochas once in a while. I don't do the flavored junk though, like the pumpkin spice.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Brio1 said:


> Just spill some of this stuff on said stain : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol) :biggrin: :drunken_smilie:


Alternatively, I could drink it first and then breathe on the stain. Steam cleaning, they say, is easy on fabrics.


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## Woofa (Dec 23, 2014)

My guess is that if you are looking for the trad version, then it has to be well made but not flavored coffee. Special flavors, creamers, they all seem untrad like to my way of thinking. But a really good cup of joe, whatever the source, full of caffeine for late night studying, percolator seems the way to go in my thoughts. I am thinking late night diner coffee in a place where you sit at the counter, pie and danish in clear plastic covered plates on the counter. The cook in the back is wearing a white apron and slow cooking the hashbrowns on the grill. Wow, I wish I still lived in the Northeast.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> I miss the days of the old Duncan Donut shops. And the "original" Dunkin Donuts "Dunkin Donuts" with the little tabs to hold while you dunked the donut in coffee.


When was this? the 1980's?


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

I missed the little tabs but Duncan Donuts, in their heyday, had a country wide presence. I know they were very common all over the western U.S. where I grew up in the 1970s.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Even something as mundane as a Dunkin' Donuts used to look cool!! 










"Time to make the donuts!!"


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## MythReindeer (Jul 3, 2013)

Howard said:


> It has to be real coffee.


People are slap-fighting about Starbucks and Howard is over here dropping next-level philosophy.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Things looked cool because artists were given more say in how things looked. Things started looking ugly as marketing people began taking over.



WouldaShoulda said:


> Even something as mundane as a Dunkin' Donuts used to look cool!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

127.72 MHz said:


> I missed the little tabs but Duncan Donuts, in their heyday, had a country wide presence. I know they were very common all over the western U.S. where I grew up in the 1970s.


You ever notice now that in Dunkin Donuts, there seems to be more elderly in these shops? Maybe they want to hangout with their newspaper, coffee and doughnut.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Duvel said:


> Things looked cool because artists were given more say in how things looked. Things started looking ugly as marketing people began taking over.


and no offense to anybody but do these cashiers ever get an order correct when I'm asking for what I want? Now you have people in la-la land, they don't look happy, hate their jobs and cuss out their workers.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

You could see these things as opportunities for developing patience and compassion, Howard. Customer service is generally regrettable these days, and there must be many different reasons, societal, cutlural, and personal, that play into this. When I encounter this, I count ten and count my lucky stars that I'm not on the other side of the counter.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ You certainly said an understated mouthful my friend. Very true. Far more complex than what meets the eye. I can't claim to have worked at Duncan Donuts but I did work at a Winchell's. It was easy to be polite even when I was tired and had homework to do when I got off work. I'm not sure I would feel the same way if I was 55-65 years old and I was forced to work the counter and mop floors because it's either that or eat cat food over rice,...

Growing up the only time you saw someone over 20 years old behind the counter of Duncan Donuts was when the manager/owner was filling in. These were jobs for high school and college kids earning a few extra bucks while preparing for the rat race.

Now, it's some poor sod barely getting by behind the counter.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Well worth re-posting this image of a very cool piece of by-gone Americana. I would not want to be one second younger than I am.



WouldaShoulda said:


> Even something as mundane as a Dunkin' Donuts used to look cool!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

True, this. I was cheerful, even annoyingly so, when I worked my not-so-great part-time college jobs, but that was only because I also enjoyed the security of knowing that my parents were paying for the dorm roof over my head and the dorm cafeteria was full of food every day. It's hard enough working a great job these days and feeling entirely happy all the time. I can't imagine how I might feel if I were forced to subsist on menial, customer service jobs these days.



127.72 MHz said:


> ^^ You certainly said an understated mouthful my friend. Very true. Far more complex than what meets the eye. I can't claim to have worked at Duncan Donuts but I did work at a Winchell's. It was easy to be polite even when I was tired and had homework to do when I got off work. I'm not sure I would feel the same way if I was 55-65 years old and I was forced to work the counter and mop floors because it's either that or eat cat food over rice,...
> 
> Growing up the only time you saw someone over 20 years old behind the counter of Duncan Donuts was when the manager/owner was filling in. These were jobs for high school and college kids earning a few extra bucks while preparing for the rat race.
> 
> Now, it's some poor sod barely getting by behind the counter.


----------



## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard said:


> I'm more of a Dunkin Donuts coffee kind of guy, anybody like their coffee?


Works for me also, noting fancy, always the same, available all over (or at least all over CT)


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard said:


> When was this? the 1980's?


There is a DD in Wethersfield, CT that still makes these.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

fred johnson said:


> Works for me also, noting fancy, always the same, available all over (or at least all over CT)


You like their donuts?


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard said:


> You like their donuts?


Only apple & spice ones.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

127.72 MHz said:


> I'm not sure I would feel the same way if I was 55-65 years old and I was forced to work the counter and mop floors because it's either that or eat cat food over rice,...


Oh, Brother!!


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I think this thread title would make a pretty good name for a "trad" consignment shop, by the way.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

For all the justified bashing that Starbucks gets for the mediocre quality of their coffee, their Starbucks Reserves brewed on special Clover machines in some stores can be quite decent. Inconsistently so, but it's possible to get a good cup. Yesterday it was too cold to walk to my local shop, so I stopped in at Starbucks and tried their Ethiopia Konga, and it was very drinkable.


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

fred johnson said:


> Only apple & spice ones.


Let me clarify. At 16 I worked at a car wash next to a dunkin donuts ($1.25/hr for 10 hrs) Often the only break we got was to run next door and get a donut. After a while I got to dislike ALL donuts, especially those from dunkin donuts.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

fred johnson said:


> Let me clarify. At 16 I worked at a car wash next to a dunkin donuts ($1.25/hr for 10 hrs) Often the only break we got was to run next door and get a donut. After a while I got to dislike ALL donuts, especially those from dunkin donuts.


Sure, but didn't it make you feel connected to the working man??


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Orgetorix said:


> For all the justified bashing that Starbucks gets for the mediocre quality of their coffee, their Starbucks Reserves brewed on special Clover machines in some stores can be quite decent. Inconsistently so, but it's possible to get a good cup. Yesterday it was too cold to walk to my local shop, so I stopped in at Starbucks and tried their Ethiopia Konga, and it was very drinkable.


I was wondering if those were any good, I had seen them advertised but hadn't noticed any in store


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## DannoRye (Feb 1, 2013)

Duvel said:


> You could see these things as opportunities for developing patience and compassion, Howard. Customer service is generally regrettable these days, and there must be many different reasons, societal, cutlural, and personal, that play into this. When I encounter this, I count ten and count my lucky stars that I'm not on the other side of the counter.


Wise words.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

But I just saw how many forms of the root word "count" I have in that last sentence. Sheesh. I went to that university that's known for its writing programs.



DannoRye said:


> Wise words.


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## DannoRye (Feb 1, 2013)

I counter than it doesn't count for much.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Oh, Brother!!


You're right, never happens.


----------



## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Sure, but didn't it make you feel connected to the working man??


10 years before that movie, I WAS the working man.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I AM the working man.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

127.72 MHz said:


> You're right, never happens.


Just how many times in your lifetime has poor service (In the US) been attributed to a cat food over rice diet??

I mean REALLY!!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

fred johnson said:


> Only apple & spice ones.


I like apple donuts and during the Thanksgiving seasons, they make pumpkin donuts, they're delicious.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

fred johnson said:


> Let me clarify. At 16 I worked at a car wash next to a dunkin donuts ($1.25/hr for 10 hrs) Often the only break we got was to run next door and get a donut. After a while I got to dislike ALL donuts, especially those from dunkin donuts.


What about their Lattes?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Duvel said:


> I AM the working man.


I'm a cart man.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm a heavy lifter.


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## ThePopinjay (Nov 12, 2013)

Howard said:


> I'm a cart man.


That should be in your signature, Howard.


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard said:


> What about their Lattes?


No, just black coffee


----------



## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Duvel said:


> But I just saw how many forms of the root word "count" I have in that last sentence. Sheesh. I went to that university that's known for its writing programs.


The University of Iowa - perhaps even the Writers' Workshop or the Center for Bibliographic Studies?


----------



## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm an Iowa grad. I had dreams of getting into the Writers Workshop but I had to settle for being a humble journalism and English double major.



godan said:


> The University of Iowa - perhaps even the Writers' Workshop or the Center for Bibliographic Studies?


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Howard said:


> I'm a cart man.





ThePopinjay said:


> That should be in your signature, Howard.


Coo coo ka choo!!


----------



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> I'm an Iowa grad. I had dreams of getting into the Writers Workshop but I had to settle for being a humble journalism and English double major.


How's that career at Taco Bell working out?:devil:


----------



## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Duvel said:


> I'm a heavy lifter.


I'm a pusher.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

ThePopinjay said:


> That should be in your signature, Howard.


I'm looking into that.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

fred johnson said:


> No, just black coffee


cream and sugars?


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## fred johnson (Jul 22, 2009)

Howard said:


> cream and sugars?


No cream or sugar.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Ha ha. Ah, yes. Believe it or not, I've mainly worked in my field or related fields most of my working life. I had a rough year or two right after college when I was faking my way through an assistant manager job of a hardware store ("Yeah... 220, 221, whatever it takes..."), but I've otherwise been fortunate. Journalism grads, at least from that time, actually do fairly well. English majors are another story (no pun intended). I started out as an English major, and my parents had the wisdom to force me, more or less, to go into something "practical." They said they'd stop paying for everything if I did not, so I complied.



32rollandrock said:


> How's that career at Taco Bell working out?:devil:


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

And that's how I got to where I am today, where I get to go to meetings where we talk about non-negotiables in our incentivized business strategizations.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> Ha ha. Ah, yes. Believe it or not, I've mainly worked in my field or related fields most of my working life. I had a rough year or two right after college when I was faking my way through an assistant manager job of a hardware store ("Yeah... 220, 221, whatever it takes..."), but I've otherwise been fortunate. Journalism grads, at least from that time, actually do fairly well. English majors are another story (no pun intended). I started out as an English major, and my parents had the wisdom to force me, more or less, to go into something "practical." They said they'd stop paying for everything if I did not, so I complied.


If I had a child, and I do not, who wanted to major in journalism, it would be on his or her dime. Always been a believer in a liberal arts education. The best journalists dropped out of college because they were too busy being journalists to attend class.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

That's a blanket statement. There are many great journalists who not only completed undergraduate work but also went on to earn advanced degrees.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Duvel said:


> That's a blanket statement. There are many great journalists who not only completed undergraduate work but also went on to earn advanced degrees.


But were they great journalists because they had advanced degrees??


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I can only speak from my experience. The journalism students I knew who graduated and then went on to more study invariably already were great because they were smart and ambitious, loved their field, and were good writers.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> That's a blanket statement. There are many great journalists who not only completed undergraduate work but also went on to earn advanced degrees.


Sure, it's a blanket statement. But consider: R.W. Apple, flunked out of Princeton because he spent too much time at the school paper. Hunter S. Thompson--no college at all. Seymour Hersh flunked out of law school.

You don't need a degree in journalism to be a journalist, you need to know how to think and write, and those skills, in my opinion, are much better learned by doing lots of reading and lots of writing and lots of critical thinking, which is what you do in in history or English or philosophy classes. All too often, journalism classes are taught by former journalists who couldn't cut it as journalists and so got PhD' s so that they could teach and have more secure jobs and get paid, often, more money. Great journalists would never consider doing anything else, and you'll learn more working alongside them than you ever will in a college class.

There is also this: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015...rnalism-major-college-graduate_n_6737496.html


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Of course, there have been many great writers who made a living on their wits and without much school. But for the rest of us dummies, including, I'm guessing, most people who land jobs on the best newspapers and magazines, a basic undergraduate degree is prerequisite.

A journalism degree will also open doors to other career possibilities beyond being a writer or an editor.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> Of course, there have been many great writers who made a living on their wits and without much school. But for the rest of us dummies, including, I'm guessing, most people who land jobs on the best newspapers and magazines, a basic undergraduate degree is prerequisite.
> 
> *A journalism degree will also open doors to other career possibilities beyond being a writer or an editor*.


Yes. You can work in PR.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Nothing wrong with that. There's much more. But I guess your point is that if you use your journalism degree for anything other than intensely muckracker investigating, you're not a true journalist. That's an observation, of course.



32rollandrock said:


> Yes. You can work in PR.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> You don't need a degree in journalism to be a journalist, you need to know how to think and write, and those skills, in my opinion, are much better learned by doing lots of reading and lots of writing and lots of critical thinking, which is what you do in in history or English or philosophy classes.


Is impartiality still part of the program??


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Duvel said:


> Nothing wrong with that. There's much more. But I guess your point is that if you use your journalism degree for anything other than intensely muckracker investigating, you're not a true journalist. That's an observation, of course.


Some would say "not a true journalist" others might say a "hack!!"


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Some might, and I guess it would depend on the context. A hack is one who does his profession's work badly. Just because one is not working in someone else's narrow definition of that profession does not make one a hack.



WouldaShoulda said:


> Some would say "not a true journalist" others might say a "hack!!"


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## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> There is also this: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015...rnalism-major-college-graduate_n_6737496.html


Every spring, bright, eager interns from some of the best J schools in the country flood the newsroom for a roll-up-your-sleeves taste of big city newspaper journalism. Of course, they're surrounded by a staff of 50- and 60-somethings who came of age when Woodward and Bernstein were the role models.

The kids might have a future in journalism, but it's unlikely to be at a metropolitan daily, which hemorrhage money at an astounding rate.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I agree with this entirely. Journalism is no longer a great field to go into. It probably has not been since the early 1980s. And for the record, I'm one of those 50- and 60-year-olds but I still know how to do a good LOL.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

To get this thread back on topic, I trace my coffee habit back to J-school. I learned two things in my first communications class: 1) Don't leave out the "l" in "public relations" and 2) You're going to have drink a lot of coffee at night to get all your reading done.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> Nothing wrong with that. There's much more. But I guess your point is that if you use your journalism degree for anything other than intensely muckracker investigating, you're not a true journalist. That's an observation, of course.


Doesn't have to be muckrakng. You can write only features and be a great journalist so long as you know how to spin a yarn. But I agree, let's get this thread back on track.

What's up with companies that don't provide free coffee to employees?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Then I probably qualify as a 32rollandrock journalist!

But yes, to get us back on track, I don't know why. Coffee is not cheap but it could certainly be seen as a perk, and I would think a board of trustees would see it as something not unlike how soldiers were handed out packages of methamphetamine once upon a time. Stay awake, stay alert, soldier up!



32rollandrock said:


> Doesn't have to be muckrakng. *You can write only features and be a great journalist so long as you know how to spin a yarn.* But I agree, let's get this thread back on track.
> 
> What's up with companies that don't provide free coffee to employees?


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## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

Duvel said:


> I agree with this entirely. Journalism is no longer a great field to go into. It probably has not been since the early 1980s. And for the record, I'm one of those 50- and 60-year-olds but I still know how to do a good LOL.


Yep, me, too. And to remain within the original bounds of this thread, yes, my employer does provide reasonably good coffee, made better by adding a second coffee packet to the brew.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

What, you're not allowed to smoke meth at work? That's ridiculous.



Duvel said:


> Then I probably qualify as a 32rollandrock journalist!
> 
> But yes, to get us back on track, I don't know why. Coffee is not cheap but it could certainly be seen as a perk, and I would think a board of trustees would see it as something not unlike how soldiers were handed out packages of methamphetamine once upon a time. Stay awake, stay alert, soldier up!


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

We have one of those brew pack hot shot things. The coffee is terrible. But sometimes at 2:30 I have to get one. 

Best place I ever worked for coffee was my gig with the U. My office was downtown, with a good coffee shop within a block in almost any direction. I would get a little bored at my desk and go get an espresso. By 5 p.m., I was ready to jump out of my skin.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I think actually it was the Nazi soldiers who were known to be issued meth. I don't think we did (although I wouldn't be surprised if I were corrected). Note: https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...o-nazi-germany-and-world-war-ii-a-901755.html



32rollandrock said:


> What, you're not allowed to smoke meth at work? That's ridiculous.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> I think actually it was the Nazi soldiers who were known to be issued meth. I don't think we did (although I wouldn't be surprised if I were corrected). Note: https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...o-nazi-germany-and-world-war-ii-a-901755.html


Nazi soldiers and U.S. Air Force pilots, also. Go pills, as they call them, are amphetamines. Get into the cockpit of a $50 million jet equipped with bombs and missiles and they hand you a bunch of speed without thinking twice. Get behind the wheel of a Toyota Corolla after doing a line of crank and they throw you in jail. Go figure.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Well, yeah, but... the former is in the line of duty.



32rollandrock said:


> Nazi soldiers and U.S. Air Force pilots, also. Go pills, as they call them, are amphetamines. Get into the cockpit of a $50 million jet equipped with bombs and missiles and they hand you a bunch of speed without thinking twice. Get behind the wheel of a Toyota Corolla after doing a line of crank and they throw you in jail. Go figure.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Duvel said:


> Well, yeah, but... the former is in the line of duty.


Well, they give amphetamines to pilots on the good-faith belief that it keeps them alert and, therefore, improves safety. Are you suggesting that motorists should not also take similar steps to improve safety? Instead, they are stuck with French roast, which is not nearly as effective.

The inherent double standard has always puzzled me.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm not sure. I've never spent much time thinking about it, actually. Hmm...



32rollandrock said:


> Well, they give amphetamines to pilots on the good-faith belief that it keeps them alert and, therefore, improves safety. Are you suggesting that motorists should not also take similar steps to improve safety? Instead, they are stuck with French roast, which is not nearly as effective.
> 
> The inherent double standard has always puzzled me.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> Well, they give amphetamines to pilots on the good-faith belief that it keeps them alert and, therefore, improves safety. Are you suggesting that motorists should not also take similar steps to improve safety? Instead, they are stuck with French roast, which is not nearly as effective.
> 
> The inherent double standard has always puzzled me.


I hate to have to point this out but...

If a 2 ton $30k automobile were the same as a $50 million jet equipped with bombs and missiles you could have a point.

They aren't, so you don't!!


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I hate to have to point this out but...
> 
> If a 2 ton $30k automobile were the same as a $50 million jet equipped with bombs and missiles you could have a point.
> 
> They aren't, so you don't!!


Good point.


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## SlideGuitarist (Apr 23, 2013)

Here's a photo from my workplace. My colleague Berkeley was nice enough to make me a cup this morning. Just so you don't think I don't know the difference. Still, I don't think good coffee is "traditional" in America. Not picture is the $300 Rancilio burr grinder, which hardly comports with Yankee frugality.



True story: I bought a coffee at Starbuck's recently on the way home from a camping trip, and instinctively spat out my first sip. It took me a few seconds to figure out why: it smelled like the soggy wood ashes from a doused campfire, i.e. bad.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Jealous.

We sometimes use a Chemex at home. It produces a mellower brew, one that I would call more Ivy League than trad.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Here's a photo from my workplace. My colleague Berkeley was nice enough to make me a cup this morning. Just so you don't think I don't know the difference. Still, I don't think good coffee is "traditional" in America. Not picture is the $300 Rancilio burr grinder, which hardly comports with Yankee frugality.
> 
> True story: I bought a coffee at Starbuck's recently on the way home from a camping trip, and instinctively spat out my first sip. It took me a few seconds to figure out why: it smelled like the soggy wood ashes from a doused campfire, i.e. bad.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Duvel said:


> To get this thread back on topic, I trace my coffee habit back to J-school. I learned two things in my first communications class: 1) Don't leave out the "l" in "public relations" and 2) You're going to have drink a lot of coffee at night to get all your reading done.


I think I run on coffee, caffeine is probably what gets us workers going throughout the day.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> What's up with companies that don't provide free coffee to employees?


Why should they provide you with free coffee when you earn a paycheck so you can buy yourself a coffee? A coffee these days on the street is probably between 50 cents-a dollar.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Howard, when was the last time you bought coffee at Starbucks or another coffee shop?



Howard said:


> Why should they provide you with free coffee when you earn a paycheck so you can buy yourself a coffee? A coffee these days on the street is probably between 50 cents-a dollar.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Duvel said:


> Howard, when was the last time you bought coffee at Starbucks or another coffee shop?


I go to Dunkin Donuts almost all the time, A small coffee: *$1.39* a medium: *$1.99* a large: *$2.19*


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

That's a little more pocket change than 50 cents or a dollar, sir. With the high price of a cup of coffee these days, employers should subsidize our coffee habits. Every employer should pay for at least a pound a week of french roast for each of its employees. We'll call this DuvelCare.



Howard said:


> I go to Dunkin Donuts almost all the time, A small coffee: *$1.39* a medium: *$1.99* a large: *$2.19*


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Duvel said:


> That's a little more pocket change than 50 cents or a dollar, sir. With the high price of a cup of coffee these days, employers should subsidize our coffee habits. Every employer should pay for at least a pound a week of french roast for each of its employees. We'll call this DuvelCare.


How much do you think a small coffee should be?


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Free!



Howard said:


> How much do you think a small coffee should be?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Duvel said:


> Free!


I would love free coffee too but that will never happen, unless the coffee machine at my workplace is broken then it will be free.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I bring my coffee to work in a thermos.

The free coffee is that bad!!


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

I want to start doing that. It will mean being more organized in the morning, i.e., one more thing to get done before I head out the door.



WouldaShoulda said:


> I bring my coffee to work in a thermos.
> 
> The free coffee is that bad!!


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I bring my coffee to work in a thermos.
> 
> The free coffee is that bad!!


Our free coffee is some terrible Folgers pre-measured packets- I used to not mind Folgers, but I drank too much of it in undergrad and got sick of it. So I bring this to work, 32oz of French-pressed glory (the thermos holds 48oz IIRC, but I'm not making two FP's in the morning):



i would love to get a Chemex, but my next coffee purchase is going to be an Aeropress (actually may order one tonight). My wife and I went to a retreat last weekend where a friend of ours brought an Aeropress, I was very impressed with the brew.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I bring my coffee to work in a thermos.
> 
> The free coffee is that bad!!


Where do you heat your coffee?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Duvel said:


> I want to start doing that. It will mean being more organized in the morning, i.e., one more thing to get done before I head out the door.


I think I need to do that too, it would save me a dollar.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Posted in acquisitions, but I bought an Aerobie Aeropress tonight:


not trad at all (especially considering it was invented in 2005), but it makes amazing coffee (closer to espresso). I was looking it up online and it has somewhat of a cult following lol


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Enjoy! The Aeropress is an amazing device. It's capable of such an incredibly wide range of brew types and methods. It's fun to experiment with!


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Orgetorix said:


> Enjoy! The Aeropress is an amazing device. It's capable of such an incredibly wide range of brew types and methods. It's fun to experiment with!


Thanks! I've considered one for a while, but I had a cup made with one for the first time last weekend and was blown away by the brew. I already love the portability of the unit.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

I only use a Keurig at work. Discovered this yesterday. Put it on the 6oz setting.


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Monocle said:


> I only use a Keurig at work. Discovered this yesterday. Put it on the 6oz setting.


I use CB in my Bialetti as an everyday coffee- really, really great stuff. Their instant packets are actually pretty dang good in a pinch too.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

orange fury said:


> Posted in acquisitions, but I bought an Aerobie Aeropress tonight:
> 
> 
> not trad at all (especially considering it was invented in 2005), but it makes amazing coffee (closer to espresso). I was looking it up online and it has somewhat of a cult following lol


How does the coffee taste?


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Z


Howard said:


> How does the coffee taste?


It tastes fantastic Howard, very strong.

Having Independence Coffee Co (local roaster down the road in Brenham, TX) "Jet Fuel" multi-origin from my Aeropress in my new LL Bean mug:


ive been lusting after this mug every time I saw Stcolumba post while holding one, ended up finding one NOS on eBay a few weeks ago. I love it, I feel like I should using it on the front porch of a cabin in the woods of Maine.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

Whew. Well. According to yesterday's blood draw, my LDL, in six months, has gone from solidly optimal to borderline high. Six months ago, I started doing a couple of things: I started drinking french press coffee every morning, a switch from our filtered Chemex brew; and I started drinking awful shots of coffee at work that get blown through those little packets. Aside from slacking off in my workout routine, that's all that I have been doing differently. 

We're going back to the Chemex tomorrow, and no more coffee at work. And I'm back on the fitness trail.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I use a French press much of the time. It is harder to get the grounds out for sure, but worth it.

Far as "Trad coffee" goes, while I am fond of robust, medium roast Arabica I also go to Satellite Coffee around here for espresso drinks occasionally.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

orange fury said:


> Z
> 
> It tastes fantastic Howard, very strong.
> 
> ...


I definitely like strong coffee, it keeps me alert and awake.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

If you're doing french press regularly, I highly recommend a periodic LDL check. I had no idea, until now, that there was that difference between unfiltered and filtered coffee. Thank God, I believe in regular physical checkups!


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## orange fury (Dec 8, 2013)

Duvel said:


> If you're doing french press regularly, I highly recommend a periodic LDL check. I had no idea, until now, that there was that difference between unfiltered and filtered coffee. Thank God, I believe in regular physical checkups!


IIRC it's due to the oils not being filtered out. That's one of the nice things about the Aeropress I've been using- it has mini paper filter disks, so it makes for a very clean cup (relative to a FP or Moka pot).


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Duvel, for a while I had mild prehypertension. I lowered my caffeine intake a bit and that fixed it right up. I don't drink coffee and sodas quite as much as I used to.


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## Duvel (Mar 16, 2014)

It's too bad, because I much prefer french pressed coffee. Maybe will just have to keep it to the weekends.


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