# Sticky  Ask a Trad Question & Get Answer: Quick Q&A



## AlanC

Is this Trad? What does OCBD mean? No need to start a (new and possibly redundant) thread on it, just ask it here for a quick answer.

At the suggestion of one of our esteemed members we are starting this thread (in emulation of one in a forum far, far away) in hopes of encouraging newbies (or even forum veterans) to ask questions in good faith and get good faith answers. That means no intentionally goofball questions and give actual serious answers.


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## AldenPyle

This is something I have always wondered. What is End on End material? Is it Trad? Would it work in a buttondown?


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## AlanC

See a :



> End-on-end (also end-and-end or end-to-end) - closely woven fabric with alternating fine colored yarn and a white yarn creating a mini checkered effect with a smooth texture.


I think it might work well as a point or club collar.


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## mpcsb

AldenPyle said:


> Would it work in a buttondown?


Yes. I've seen some over the years.


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## AldenPyle

Thanks


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## xcubbies

mpcsb said:


> Yes. I've seen some over the years.


I have two from O'Connels and one from BB as buttondowns. 
.........................................
Alan C: you have a good idea, but how do you prevent this from becoming a thread?


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## AlanC

xcubbies said:


> Alan C: you have a good idea, but how do you prevent this from becoming a thread?


Well, not my idea I just started the thread, as for the latter--let's move along: next question! :icon_smile:


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## TradTeacher

How difficult would it be (if it's even possible) to change non-functioning jacket cuff buttons into functioning buttons? I have an unstructured cord jacket that I don't wear much, but one feature I really like about it is the functioning cuff buttons. What might something like this cost?

TT:teacha:


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## AlanC

You would need to make sure the cloth was there for the necessary overlap. If it is, then putting in working cuff buttons is very possible. I've heard quotes of $15-$25/button. You'd have to check with you alterations tailor.

Make sure you have the sleeve length right where you want it before you start.


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## Northeastern

*Canvassed?*

How can I tell if a jacket is fully canvassed? Is there a way to tell by touch or some indication on the tag?


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## AlanC

There will be no indication on the tag. What I do is separate the interior cloth from the front chest/lapel area and then see if I can feel a third independent piece between them. If the chest cloth feels any thicker than the interior cloth or you can't feel that independent floating piece, it's fused. You can also pinch and move your fingers back and forth.


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## wnh

AlanC said:


> There will be no indication on the tag. What I do is separate the interior cloth from the front chest/lapel area and then see if I can feel a third independent piece between them. If the chest cloth feels any thicker than the interior cloth or you can't feel that independent floating piece, it's fused. You can also pinch and move your fingers back and forth.


I've always read this but never quite understood. How, exactly, do you feel the canvas? Is it the kind of thing that once you know what it feels like, you know what it feels like? I've got a Brooksease suit that, to my knowledge, should be half-canvassed. Where do I do the pinch test to feel for the canvas?


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## charlesg

*pinch*

I've always been told that the best way to tell is to pinch in between the buttons to feel for the canvas or lack of one.


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## anglophile23

What trouser color looks best with a blazer but is still verstile? I'm tired of the blazer/chino look.


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## TradTeacher

I bought a pair of medium gray gabardines from BB that I really like with a blazer. I also like the look of a multi-colored houndstooth or windowpane wool trouser with a blazer (as long as navy is mixed into the scheme of the pants). Can keep it interesting...

TT:teacha:


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## AlanC

anglophile23 said:


> What trouser color looks best with a blazer but is still verstile? I'm tired of the blazer/chino look.


Medium grey flannels. They go with practically everything.


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## anglophile23

I meant to add besides grey flannels.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays

What does "brush-on" mean when relating to shoes?


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## Patrick06790

TradTeacher said:


> I also like the look of a multi-colored houndstooth or windowpane wool trouser with a blazer (as long as navy is mixed into the scheme of the pants). Can keep it interesting...
> 
> TT:teacha:


Yes indeed. One of my favorite looks.


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## CaptCrunch

I'm far away from any place where I could figure this out on my own (i.e. try these on) and my searches of previous threads did not reveal the answer.

If I am a 9.5 D in the Van-lasted LHS, what size would I be in a Hampton-lasted lace-up?

Thank you!


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## Naval Gent

anglophile23 said:


> I meant to add besides grey flannels.


Tan gabardines look good, and are dressier than Khakis. Go with olive flannels for a much less ordinary look.

Scott


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## xcubbies

Patrick06790 said:


> Yes indeed. One of my favorite looks.


You see, AlanC, it has become a thread. Patrick, go to your room.

I'd suggest that people just send questions directly to you if they need serious counselling and advice.


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## Patrick06790

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> What does "brush-on" mean when relating to shoes?


"Brush-_off_" means shiny, plasticky, corrected-grain leather that looks cheap to my eye.


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## AlanC

xcubbies said:


> You see, AlanC, it has become a thread. Patrick, go to your room.


I can't help it when troublemaking members like Patrick are out of control.


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## xcubbies

Patrick06790 said:


> "Brush-_off_" means shiny, plasticky, corrected-grain leather that looks cheap to my eye.


If it is said that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, is it equally true for cheapness?


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## bd79cc

Now, now. . .


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## mipcar

*I got a question, I got a question !!!!.*

Don't normally post in "Trad" but here goes.

Question - I want to aquire some cords (trousers) suggestions as to colours & are cords best in 100% cotton or is something else recommended?

Mychael


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## Untilted

colors: tan, olive. if you are daring, red, rust.

100% cotton.


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## AldenPyle

mipcar said:


> Don't normally post in "Trad" but here goes.
> 
> Question - I want to aquire some cords (trousers) suggestions as to colours & are cords best in 100% cotton or is something else recommended?
> 
> Mychael


These are high quality and a good deal. I second on the olive.


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## AldenPyle

Scanning vintage clothes on ebay, I often see plaid things identified as emo. What does that mean?


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## mipcar

AldenPyle said:


> These are high quality and a good deal. I second on the olive.


Great prices but only the mushroom in my size.

Mike


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## AldenPyle

mipcar said:


> Great prices but only the mushroom in my size.
> 
> Mike


Actually, I got the olive and mushroom myself.


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## mipcar

AldenPyle said:


> Scanning vintage clothes on ebay, I often see plaid things identified as emo. What does that mean?


"emo" as in emotional if I am to be understanding the next generation correctly. It's a style. you'll find reference to it if you google.

Mychael


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## AldenPyle

mipcar said:


> "emo" as in emotional if I am to be understanding the next generation correctly. It's a style. you'll find reference to it if you google.
> 
> Mychael


Thanks, though, now I am sorry I asked.


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## AldenPyle

What exactly is Chromexcel? Why does such a homely leather have such a Jetsons kind of name?


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## anglophile23

Can Sperry CVO's act as tennis shoes(assuming one will never acually wear them to play tennis)?


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## anglophile23

My undersstanding is that shell cordovan comes the the rump of a horse. What can't other areas be used? Also, would it be to weird to wear shells to a horse race?


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## AlanC

It is actually a good idea to wear shell cordovan shoes to a horse race if you are able to visit the horse you are betting on. Then you catch his eye, wink and point to your shoes. He will then win the race.


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## Zot!

*West Cost Trad*

This is my first post here, and this seemed like the right thread to ask this question: is the three-button sack truly the _sine qua non_ of Trad? I live in the Bay Area and they are very difficult to find. The local Brooks don't seem to carry them, and Cable Car Clothiers is a tad overpriced. I like to try my jackets on before I buy them (and, frankly, J. Press isn't very afordable either).

Is darted, but with natural shoulders a viable substitute? In that case, would three or two buttons be the more "Trad" look (two seems more conventional to me)? What about side vents? And if two-button, are flat-front pants still acceptable, or are pleats more "standard?"


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## Patrick06790

Zot! said:


> This is my first post here, and this seemed like the right thread to ask this question: is the three-button sack truly the _sine qua non_ of Trad? I live in the Bay Area and they are very difficult to find. The local Brooks don't seem to carry them, and Cable Car Clothiers is a tad overpriced. I like to try my jackets on before I buy them (and, frankly, J. Press isn't very afordable either).
> 
> Is darted, but with natural shoulders a viable substitute? In that case, would three or two buttons be the more "Trad" look (two seems more conventional to me)? What about side vents? And if two-button, are flat-front pants still acceptable, or are pleats more "standard?"


We can (and will) argue about this all day. It's good clean fun and keeps us off the streets.

My opinion is the full-bore look is the three-button sack with flat front, cuffed trousers and a buttondown collar on the shirt.

Having said that, I regularly depart from the formula, as my mood takes me. Others adhere more closely, adding their individual touches in accessories.

My advice is to play around with it until you figure out what you like and what looks good on you, and don't spend a great deal of time worrying about rules.


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## wnh

Patrick06790 said:


> My advice is to play around with it until you figure out what you like and what looks good on you, and don't spend a great deal of time worrying about rules.


Seconded. The 3-button rolled-to-2 sack jacket with a single back vent and cuffed flat front trousers is _the_ trad suit. Double vents, darts, and pleats aren't trad. That said, it's irrelevant. Wear what you like, and what looks good on you. If you prefer 2-button jackets with double vents and pleated, uncuffed trousers, that's great. This wouldn't be the place for you in that case, but it doesn't have to be.


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## StickPig

What is the appropriate sleeve length for a business suit and shirt? With arms at my side, where should each sleeve touch?


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## bd79cc

Patrick06790 said:


> My opinion is the full-bore look is the three-button sack with flat front, cuffed trousers and a buttondown collar on the shirt.


_I.e.,_ "The Uniform," as Mrs. bd has called it.

The Trad (or TNSIL or Preppie) look is a gestalt that's easiest to get to using these clothing choices.

If you can get that same gestalt, or close enough to it for comfort, using your native West Coast sources, then why not do so? It might increase your pleasure to look as Trad as anyone on this Forum without having to rely on any part of "The Uniform."


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## Untilted

wnh said:


> Seconded. The 3-button rolled-to-2 sack jacket with a single back vent and cuffed flat front trousers is _the_ trad suit. Double vents, darts, and pleats aren't trad.


disagree. Double vents is very ivy.


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## marlinspike

Untilted said:


> disagree. Double vents is very ivy.


Show me an over 50 ivy leaguer who wears jackets with double vents, and I'll show you a man who was an outcast in college.


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## AldenPyle

Zot! said:


> This is my first post here, and this seemed like the right thread to ask this question: is the three-button sack truly the _sine qua non_ of Trad? I live in the Bay Area and they are very difficult to find. The local Brooks don't seem to carry them, and Cable Car Clothiers is a tad overpriced. I like to try my jackets on before I buy them (and, frankly, J. Press isn't very afordable either).
> 
> Is darted, but with natural shoulders a viable substitute? In that case, would three or two buttons be the more "Trad" look (two seems more conventional to me)? What about side vents? And if two-button, are flat-front pants still acceptable, or are pleats more "standard?"


This seems like a question that could go on forever. One affordable sack option to look for is to check the Southwick's at STP. Its mail order, but money back guarantee, so you could order a couple of sizes and see which fits. A quick answer to your philosophical question might be to suggest you to read the top article on http:\\www.filmnoirbuff.com which discusses the historical evolution of the sack vs. the two button darted jacket.


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## wnh

Untilted said:


> disagree. Double vents is very ivy.


I don't know that I've ever seen a 3/2 sack suit with double vents. Maybe some Ivy League gentlemen wore double-vented jackets, but double-vented _sack_ jackets?


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## AlanC

wnh said:


> I don't know that I've ever seen a 3/2 sack suit with double vents. Maybe some Ivy League gentlemen wore double-vented jackets, but double-vented _sack_ jackets?


I just sold an English bespoke 3/2 sack hacking jacket with ticket pocket and side/double vents. So it was at least done once.


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## Untilted

wnh said:


> I don't know that I've ever seen a 3/2 sack suit with double vents. Maybe some Ivy League gentlemen wore double-vented jackets, but double-vented _sack_ jackets?


I go to a public school, and I'm not sure if I'm a gentleman. But this is a double vented sack:


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## AldenPyle

The Southwick Miles is a double-vented sack.


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## marlinspike

Untilted said:


> I go to a public school,


Then you are _NOTHING_!!!!!!!!

Signed,
a person who goes to a public school


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## Zot!

*trad lite*



Patrick06790 said:


> My advice is to play around with it until you figure out what you like and what looks good on you, and don't spend a great deal of time worrying about rules.


That is my general philosophy. I recently got a 3/2 sack from George J. Goode from a local thrift store and really like the fit. So I guess my question is, if I'm not going to be too dogmatic, what are some good makers/outlets for suits with natural shoulders, not too suppressed at the waist, affordable ($500-750), but still quality construction? Domestic or Canadian construction is a plus, but at those prices it's getting harder and harder to be a fundamentalist these days.


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## farrago

Zot! said:


> That is my general philosophy. I recently got a 3/2 sack from George J. Goode from a local thrift store and really like the fit. So I guess my question is, if I'm not going to be too dogmatic, what are some good makers/outlets for suits with natural shoulders, not too suppressed at the waist, affordable ($500-750), but still quality construction? Domestic or Canadian construction is a plus, but at those prices it's getting harder and harder to be a fundamentalist these days.


Zot, is George J Good still around? It used to be on Bancroft in Berkeley, not far from Sather Gate. I don't recall it having a lot of sacks back in the early to mid 80's, but most of the other stock was pretty trad. One of the salesman was a pretty dapper fellow, usually wearing a blue seersucker sack with gray tropical wool trousers in the summer and always taking his morning coffee at Cafe Mediterraneum.


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## Zot!

*George J. Good*

Unfortunately, George J. Good seems to have closed shop around '05 or so. The name above the shop is still there, but the space is occupied by a novelty store. Retail in the Telegraph/Bancoft area is really going downhill all around, for some reason.

As it would happen, I stopped by the local Discovery Shop this afternoon and picked-up a two button (_yes, two) _sack tweed sport coat from George's for $15.


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## nerdykarim

anglophile23 said:


> My undersstanding is that shell cordovan comes the the rump of a horse. What can't other areas be used?


My understanding is that the shells are distinct from horsehide, which is often used in belts. The shells are probably an "in-between" layer between the hide and the butt.

edit: ...but I'm really not sure.


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## videocrew

nerdykarim said:


> My understanding is that the shells are distinct from horsehide, which is often used in belts. The shells are probably an "in-between" layer between the hide and the butt.
> 
> edit: ...but I'm really not sure.


The description I have always heard was of a "subcutaneous" layer beneath the skin, but apparently on top of the muscle. This may or may not be a correct understanding, but it's my best guess.


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## AlanC

^I believe that is correct.


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## Northeastern

Just procured a pair of BB loafers from eBay and they are made in Italy. Any idea who made them or how old they are? Searches of the forum were not that helpful.


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## wnh

The recent thread on brand labels (such as the BB Hudson or Clark, AE Park Avenue and everything else, etc.) and the couple references to naming dogs made me wonder: what is a trad dog name?

The reason I ask is this. Not long ago we acquired a toy poodle for a pet. This was before I did a forum search and read The Trad Dog thread. I now realize, of course, that I've made a huge mistake. My initial solution to this problem was to just have Pepper euthanized, but for the sake of my daughter my wife won't allow it, and as I've purchased five pairs of 986's in the past three weeks, funds are a little tight anyway.

So I decided that the right (read: humane and cost effective) thing to do would be to just rename the dog. Obviously, "Pepper" isn't cutting it. I figure that, at the very least, my neighbors on the Cape will hear me yelling some terribly tradly name from the front door and will -- if I'm lucky and they don't actually see the dog -- assume that I have a nice, acceptable, upper-class pet (who also, of course, doubles as my hunting partner).

So, what should it be?


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## Patrick06790

wnh said:


> So I decided that the right (read: humane and cost effective) thing to do would be to just rename the dog. Obviously, "Pepper" isn't cutting it. I figure that, at the very least, my neighbors on the Cape will hear me yelling some terribly tradly name from the front door and will -- if I'm lucky and they don't actually see the dog -- assume that I have a nice, acceptable, upper-class pet (who also, of course, doubles as my hunting partner).
> 
> So, what should it be?


Ralph.


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## Speas

^Tradly Huntwell


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## AlanC

Indiana


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## Lawson

Are corduroy jeans Trad?


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## tripreed

Lawson said:


> Are corduroy jeans Trad?


Uh, I would vote "No," and to expound a little bit, I would suggest that pinwale cords in a trouser cut are superior in every way.


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## Lawson

tripreed said:


> Uh, I would vote "No," and to expound a little bit, I would suggest that pinwale cords in a trouser cut are superior in every way.


Thought so. It's like asking if a mule is a donkey. I will save them for knocking around and trips to home improvement stores.

Next up, pocket polo shirts: Trad or not?


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## randomdude

*Brooks Brothers Irregular?*

This is weird, I think. I was in TJ Maxx today and I was looking at some BB ties. I found one that looked interesting and turned it over and found that on the label it said Brooks Brothers Irregular where it would normally say Brooks Brothers Makers. It looked like this:

Brooks Brothers
IRREGULAR
Hand Made in USA of Imported Fabric

My question is: doesn't it seem like they made an irregular tie _on purpose? _Like it's a new BB line or something. Has anyone else seen this?


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## wnh

randomdude said:


> This is weird, I think. I was in TJ Maxx today and I was looking at some BB ties. I found one that looked interesting and turned it over and found that on the label it said Brooks Brothers Irregular where it would normally say Brooks Brothers Makers. It looked like this:
> 
> Brooks Brothers
> IRREGULAR
> Hand Made in USA of Imported Fabric
> 
> My question is: doesn't it seem like they made an irregular tie _on purpose? _Like it's a new BB line or something. Has anyone else seen this?


I've got three "Irregular" ties (though I've been unable to find anything wrong with them) from Marshalls, but the "Irregular" is stamped in white on the loop/tag. My guess is that they found that printing tags with "Irregular" on them, and then attaching them to the irregular ties, was easier than stamping "irregular" on the tags of all ties that came out that way. So not that they make irregular ties intentionally, but that when the ties come out irregular it's easier to attach a specific tag than to stamp right on the tag that's already there.

That, or the ties you've seen are irregularly _awesome_.

My ties:


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## wnh

On second thought, I'm betting the new Brooks Brothers Irregulars line is being produced in association with Black Fleece.

Brooks Brothers Black Fleece: "Hey guys, these jackets and pants are intentionally too short!"

Brooks Brothers Irregulars: "Hey guys, these ties are intentionally crappy!"


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## AldenPyle

*Brooks Makers Shirt*

I got a shirt from one of the North Carolina BB clearance dealers on EBAY. This shirt is an OCBD, I think not fine enough to be pinpoint but maybe so, but finer than the original supima. The shirt is labeled Brook Brothers Makers Made in USA. Does anyone know how this shirt fits into the BB lineup?


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## Zot!

*French Trad*

I was watching _North By Northwest_ over the weekend. A lot of the suits in the film appeared to be three-button sack, including Cary Grant's iconic gray suit (his was actually ventless, but I read somewhere that Hollywood costume designers didn't like the way vents looked onscreen).

Anyway, I noticed that many of the dress shirts worn in the film were white with French cuffs. Are cuff links "trad?" Intuitively I would think "no," but wasn't the late 50's/ early 60's basicly the high water mark for trad influence on business dress? Additionally, if you watch _Mad Men_ almost all of the actors are wearing cuff links as well.


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## katon

Lawson said:


> Are corduroy jeans Trad?


Are they blue, finewale, and originally purchased in hopes of getting around school dress codes?


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## Carolopolis

I have a question about a pair of Aldens I purchased recently. Where normally I could treat the shoes with black edge dressing, these feature natural edges of the last/sole, (not sure the correct terminology there). What do I treat them with to maintain the natural finish but cover up the scuffing that naturally occurs?


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## Tucker

Carolopolis said:


> I have a question about a pair of Aldens I purchased recently. Where normally I could treat the shoes with black edge dressing, these feature natural edges of the last/sole, (not sure the correct terminology there). What do I treat them with to maintain the natural finish but cover up the scuffing that naturally occurs?


I'd use a neutral paste wax on the sole edges.


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## Patrick06790

*Asked & answered*

Q: Is squid a Trad appetizer?

A: Yes, because I saw Joe Tradly and Duck order it last night.


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## AlanC

Is 'squid' Tradlier than 'calamari'? Do Ducks normally eat squid?

So many questions.


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## Carolopolis

Tucker said:


> I'd use a neutral paste wax on the sole edges.


Thanks for your response.


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## paper clip

Patrick06790 said:


> Q: Is squid a Trad appetizer?
> 
> A: Yes, because I saw Joe Tradly and Duck order it last night.


I hope you kept your eye on your fountain pen.:icon_smile_wink:


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## AldenPyle

What makes you decide it is time to polish your shells? Most members suggest that they polish rarely. But what makes you look at them and think,"These babies need some wax."


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## paper clip

AldenPyle said:


> What makes you decide it is time to polish your shells? Most members suggest that they polish rarely. But what makes you look at them and think,"These babies need some wax."


I usually wait until the sole edge gets really scraped up and gross. That takes about 3-4 months, depending. Then I clean, polish and use edge dressing.


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## Tucker

AldenPyle said:


> What makes you decide it is time to polish your shells? Most members suggest that they polish rarely. But what makes you look at them and think,"These babies need some wax."


When a thorough brushing and buffing doesn't produce at least a small glimmer of shine. Or if there's significant scuffing that can't be brushed out.

I apply edge dressing more frequently than I use wax, fwiw.


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## Duck

Patrick06790 said:


> Q: Is squid a Trad appetizer?
> 
> A: Yes, because I saw Joe Tradly and Duck order it last night.


I don't know about that, but fried clams sure are.

Hell of a time boys, hell of a time.

Any of y'all ever get the chance to meet Patrick or Joe, take it. They are gentlemen and scholars.


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## Joe Tradly

Duck said:


> I don't know about that, but fried clams sure are.
> 
> Hell of a time boys, hell of a time.
> 
> Any of y'all ever get the chance to meet Patrick or Joe, take it. They are gentlemen and scholars.


I love that squid dish.

Great time meeting you both. Patrick, you've convinced me to add the Trad #5 to my tie wardrobe, and Duck, let's chat before hand next time so we don't arrive in the same tie.

JB


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## bd79cc

Tucker said:


> When a thorough brushing and buffing doesn't produce at least a small glimmer of shine. Or if there's significant scuffing that can't be brushed out. . . .


This is how I tell when to polish them. I suppose by this time in the cycle a clean brush has removed all the old polish and any excess oil from the shell's surface.

Using polish on the sole edges and heels gets all the extra polish off my polishing rag and keeps me from over-applying polish to the shell itself. Not better than edge dressing, but a small help to me.


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## AlanC

Joe Tradly said:


> Duck, let's chat before hand next time so we don't arrive in the same tie.


Ouch. The ultimate in Trad awkward moments. See where all this talk of Trad minimalism ends up? :biggrin2:


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## Patrick06790

Joe Tradly said:


> I love that squid dish.
> 
> Great time meeting you both. Patrick, you've convinced me to add the Trad #5 to my tie wardrobe, and Duck, let's chat before hand next time so we don't arrive in the same tie.
> 
> JB


I almost wore it too. (Argyle and Sutherland.)

Now that would have been just a little on the weird side.

The effect was mollified somewhat with JT's lurking under a sweater and Duck's being of the bow variety. Only close inspection revealed the unsettling truth.

(!)


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## oxford

*Whillock Brothers*

Anyone know whatever happened too Tommy O'Donogue the former owner of Whillock Brothers in Rochester, New York, once a trad bastion during the 60's and 70's.


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## vwguy

Now this is something I've been wondering for a little while, what is the difference between wing tips & long wings?

Brian


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## wnh

vwguy said:


> Now this is something I've been wondering for a little while, what is the difference between wing tips & long wings?
> 
> Brian


My understanding -- and this is by no means definitive (in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if I were missing a huge point) -- is that longwings have a 'strip' of brogueing (sp?) that goes all the way around the shoe, parallel to the ground, while regular wingtips don't. Examples pulled from the What Footwear Are You Wearing Today? thread, and AlanC's new Nettleton longwings thread:

Longwings

Wingtips

Semi-brogue

Notice how the brogueing stripe on the wingtips comes together at the bottom (forming something of a 'V') on the inside of the shoe -- they would do the same thing on the outside. Thus, no continuous strip.


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## vwguy

Ah...thanks for the explanations and pics!

Brian


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays

What's the usual chest measurement for Brooks Brother "slim" OCBDs?

In the past, on ebay I've seen them listed as around 20-21".

But I found one today that's listed as 23" and that strikes me as big.


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## Lawson

I am going to buy my first striped surcingle belt. Is it a bad idea to pair one with a shirt that has horizontal stripes? How about vertical stripes?


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## AlanC

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> What's the usual chest measurement for Brooks Brother "slim" OCBDs?


I'd think it would vary depending on neck size.


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## Duck

Lawson said:


> I am going to buy my first striped surcingle belt. Is it a bad idea to pair one with a shirt that has horizontal stripes? How about vertical stripes?


I wouldn't pair it with any stripes. Solid or a pattern in a similar color.

Stripe on stripe doesn't work


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## egadfly

Duck said:


> I wouldn't pair it with any stripes. Solid or a pattern in a similar color. Stripe on stripe doesn't work


I respectfully dissent: a slightly rumpled blue or charcoal uni-stripe oxford paired with khakis and a navy/red surcingle is a favorite look of mine. But I do agree that a shirt of any other stripe wants a solid belt.

EGF

Postscript: I'd also wear a navy/kelly-green belt this way if I had one. Barrons-Hunter really needs a webstore.


----------



## nerdykarim

egadfly said:


> I respectfully dissent: a slightly rumpled blue or charcoal uni-stripe oxford paired with khakis and a navy/red surcingle is a favorite look of mine. But I do agree that a shirt of any other stripe wants a solid belt.


This is what I wore yesterday (except with a pair of the STP Lambourne cords).


----------



## bjorn240

Lawson said:


> I am going to buy my first striped surcingle belt. Is it a bad idea to pair one with a shirt that has horizontal stripes? How about vertical stripes?


If I may, I might suggest that pairing anything with a shirt that has horizontal stripes is a bad idea.


----------



## Duck

egadfly said:


> I respectfully dissent: a slightly rumpled blue or charcoal uni-stripe oxford paired with khakis and a navy/red surcingle is a favorite look of mine. But I do agree that a shirt of any other stripe wants a solid belt.
> 
> EGF
> 
> Postscript: I'd also wear a navy/kelly-green belt this way if I had one. Barrons-Hunter really needs a webstore.


I agree with you. I always forget about the Uni Striped shirts. I never wear them so I forget them. A striped surcingle would great with a uni. Whenever I think of striped shirts I always get a mental image of Jay Leno.


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> I am going to buy my first striped surcingle belt. Is it a bad idea to pair one with a shirt that has horizontal stripes?


If the horizontal stripes are wide, like a rugby shirt, I think it'd be fine since the scale is different. But if the stripes are thin, like on some polos, I'd stay away.


----------



## Lawson

bjorn240 said:


> If I may, I might suggest that pairing anything with a shirt that has horizontal stripes is a bad idea.


My only horizontal striped shirts are polos. I try not to buy any with stripes thicker than one inch because of my height. They are a nice alternative to my solid polos and a few of them look splendid.


----------



## bjorn240

Of course. My apologies. I was imagining a sport shirt with horizontal stripes. Again, my apologies.


----------



## Hobson

Would someone please define LHS. Thanks.


----------



## wnh

(Alden) *L*eisure *H*and *S*ewn (loafers).


----------



## Hobson

Thank you so much for your reply, I was going crazy trying to figure it out. Many abbreviations are obvious, this one was not.


----------



## Lawson

Pardon my ignorance, but I never understood what made 3/2 sack suits so great. The hidden button and extra button hole on the lapel seem unnecessary. I don't like to have random, useless features on my clothes. The experts say I should wear only two-button suits. Why would I want a 3/2 over a normal two-button suit?


----------



## AlanC

You should certainly listen to the experts, Lawson. They are always right.


----------



## AldenPyle

Lawson said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but I never understood what made 3/2 sack suits so great. The hidden button and extra button hole on the lapel seem unnecessary. I don't like to have random, useless features on my clothes. The experts say I should wear only two-button suits. Why would I want a 3/2 over a normal two-button suit?


The 3/2 button is a minor style detail that most (especially today) but not all sack suits have. I think when people talk about sack suits, the central feature is a lack of a vertical seam used to shape the chest (the dart) in modern American tailored jackets. Darted jackets can also have the 3/2 button. As to what is so great about the sack/what is wrong with the dart, that is not a short question. There probably hundreds of posts on the topic here.


----------



## Lawson

AlanC said:


> You should certainly listen to the experts, Lawson. They are always right.


I ignore their opinion on what is "in" or "out" but heed their advice on what styles flatter short men or what colors look best on certain seasons. Their theories are usually correct from my experience.


----------



## tripreed

Not a "trad" question, per se, but I wondered if someone could remind me of the general height guidelines separating "Short" jackets from "Regulars" from "Longs." Thanks.


----------



## Untilted

5'7 or shorter, go for Short length.


----------



## tripreed

tripreed said:


> Not a "trad" question, per se, but I wondered if someone could remind me of the general height guidelines separating "Short" jackets from "Regulars" from "Longs." Thanks.


Um, more specifically, can someone comment on the break point between "Regular" and "Long"? I seem to remember it being around 6'1", but part of me also thought it might be 6'3".


----------



## Northeastern

6'1" is what I've been told. For what it's worth the Jos. A Bank website concurs.


----------



## wnh

tripreed said:


> Um, more specifically, can someone comment on the break point between "Regular" and "Long"? I seem to remember it being around 6'1", but part of me also thought it might be 6'3".


I thought it was 6'0", but it could be 6'1". It certainly isn't as tall as 6'3".

Of course, I think it still just depends on the person and his build. I'm 6'2", but long jackets are just a little too long for me, while regulars are a little too short. So my option are to either go for the regular -- which I don't mind, as I think it looks good -- or for a long and to have it shortened a bit. So even though I'm easily into the tall jacket height range, I'm not really built for tall jackets.


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but I never understood what made 3/2 sack suits so great. The hidden button and extra button hole on the lapel seem unnecessary. I don't like to have random, useless features on my clothes. The experts say I should wear only two-button suits. Why would I want a 3/2 over a normal two-button suit?


For me, it's an aesthetic thing. I just like the way the 3/2 roll looks.

Using your 'useless features' logic, wouldn't that prevent you from wearing cap-toed shoes, or wingtips, OCBDs, or even ties with stripes or patterns?


----------



## Lawson

wnh said:


> For me, it's an aesthetic thing. I just like the way the 3/2 roll looks.
> 
> Using your 'useless features' logic, wouldn't that prevent you from wearing cap-toed shoes, or wingtips, OCBDs, or even ties with stripes or patterns?


Another word I used was "random." The feature has to be useful or enhance the attractiveness of the item. Patterns, stripes, button down collars, and decorations don't appear random because they can add to the visual appeal. Extra buttons and buttonholes on the lapel don't make the jacket any sexier to me. Vive la différence.


----------



## Harris

tripreed said:


> Um, more specifically, can someone comment on the break point between "Regular" and "Long"? I seem to remember it being around 6'1", but part of me also thought it might be 6'3".


Probably around six feet.

I like my suit and sport jackets a bit longer. Especially the vested suit jackets.


----------



## AldenPyle

Lawson said:


> Another word I used was "random." The feature has to be useful or enhance the attractiveness of the item. Patterns, stripes, button down collars, and decorations don't appear random because they can add to the visual appeal. Extra buttons and buttonholes on the lapel don't make the jacket any sexier to me. Vive la différence.


In one sense, the third button in the three-roll-to two is a minor styling detail like having three useless buttons on your sleeve instead of four. I think you might be missing, the roll part of the equation. In the 3/2 stance, the lapel is supposed to look a little more rolled over rather than sharply creased. The buttonhole just emphasizes that point.


----------



## AlanC

Clearly Lawson does not see the appeal of the 3/2 so he should not wear one. Many people get through life just fine not doing so. This thread is meant for quick questions and quick answers. If Lawson wishes to debate the issue he can start a thread for that.


----------



## Northeastern

*Burgundy Calf Shoes*

Question: I've never seen Burgundy or Maroon shoe polish. Does it exist and if no, then what should I use to shine my burgundy shoes?


----------



## tripreed

Northeastern said:


> Question: I've never seen Burgundy or Maroon shoe polish. Does it exist and if no, then what should I use to shine my burgundy shoes?


Yes it does. It usually seems readily available, to me. Perhaps stop by a cobbler and see if they have any.


----------



## AlanC

You'll usually see it sold as 'Cordovan'.


----------



## Northeastern

AlanC said:


> You'll usually see it sold as 'Cordovan'.


Thanks gents. My walk to Walgreen's an hour ago proved fruitful as they had Kiwi "Cordovan" polish in stock. It was hiding in plain sight the whole time. I'm a real genius :teacha:


----------



## AdamsSutherland

*J. Press return*

I bought an OCBD from the Madison Ave J. Press last week. I'm currently back at college in Indiana.

The issue is, I didn't bother to check to see if the shirt (because Jerry, bless his heart, handled and wrapped it for me) was standard OC. Turns out I bought a pinpoint OCBD which I don't need or want. The shirt is still folded with pins and tag and I have the receipt.

Is there any way I can ship it to a J. Press store and recieve store credit or a refund?

Could whoever has an answer to this PM me instead of replying on here?

Thanks.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

What's a " neopolitan jacket"?


----------



## Northeastern

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> What's a " neopolitan jacket"?


It's a sportcoat with minimal padding and a "shirt shoulder." Unlike the sack, there's a lot more fabric in the chest, which causes the coat to drape in a unique way.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Thanks!

I'm still a little unclear about the extra chest fabric, and what defines a shirt shoulder.

This website (Which I just found) helped a bit, it's a cool website as well.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Heh,
I just realized that the blog I just linked to is the blog of member mayoofan, who's post in the WAYWN thread spurred my Neapolitan jacket question.

The circle of trad.


----------



## Hoyt

*Ray-Ban Aviator Question*

I've been considering purchasing a pair of Ray-Ban aviators and am looking at the Outdoorsman II. Could anyone tell me what the "brow bar" is for? The sales lady said it was just decoration, but I'm wondering if there was ever a practical purpose for it. Thanks in advance.

Pic: https://www.bestbuyeyeglasses.com/images/products/large/ag20ac00.jpg


----------



## Tucker

Hoyt said:


> I've been considering purchasing a pair of Ray-Ban aviators and am looking at the Outdoorsman II. Could anyone tell me what the "brow bar" is for? The sales lady said it was just decoration, but I'm wondering if there was ever a practical purpose for it. Thanks in advance.


Those are styled as shooting glasses (although I wouldn't wear them for shooting). The brow bar is placed there primarily for stability (keeping the glasses secure against the forehead).


----------



## forestcarter

*Pink and Lavender*

Generally pastels come out after Easter, but does that include pink and lavender or should that wait until memorial day or so. I live in Virginia


----------



## AlanC

^I think you're fine with spring clothes after Easter South of the Mason-Dixon.


----------



## wnh

Pink shirts I think are year-round, not just spring/summer. Pink ties, probably best in warmer weather. Lavender strikes me as a spring/summer color, too.


----------



## Northeastern

wnh said:


> Pink shirts I think are year-round, not just spring/summer. Pink ties, probably best in warmer weather. Lavender strikes me as a spring/summer color, too.


+1 Pink is a year round color, just like blue or white.


----------



## Reddington

*Brooks Brothers 346 (old line) label question*

When did Brooks Brothers quit making their '346' label suits before they became the outlet brand? I'm asking because I've found an 'old line 346' sack suit for sale and it is advertised as "new without tags" (NWOT), but I'm doubtful of it actually being new. 

Thanks.


----------



## Reddington

*Bowtie size question*

Ok, a stupid bowtie question. 

Having always worn repp, club, or knit ties, I've now moved into bowties (thanks to the influence of the fine folks at AAAC Trad forum.) 

I'm still practicing how to tie it, but I'm curious about the size of the bowtie and where to set the adjustable tab. I wear a 15 ½ collar, so do I set the bowtie at 15 ½ or go up or down some? My apologies for asking such a question, but I never want to assume something and feel it's best to ask. 

Thanks all.


----------



## tripreed

Reddington said:


> I'm still practicing how to tie it, but I'm curious about the size of the bowtie and where to set the adjustable tab. I wear a 15 ½ collar, so do I set the bowtie at 15 ½ or go up or down some? My apologies for asking such a question, but I never want to assume something and feel it's best to ask.


I find that I usually move mine down by 3/4"-1". I think it really just depends on the individual tie. What you would probably want to aim for is not having the blades any wider than the sides of your face one the tie is tied.


----------



## wnh

Reddington said:


> When did Brooks Brothers quit making their '346' label suits before they became the outlet brand? I'm asking because I've found an 'old line 346' sack suit for sale and it is advertised as "new without tags" (NWOT), but I'm doubtful of it actually being new.
> 
> Thanks.


I can't give you a date, but all of the old '346' suits and jackets I've seen have the tag on the collar, with "Brooks Brothers" and "346" in block letters, the "346" being underneath the "Brooks Brothers." All of the new '346' stuff I've seen, though, has a tag on the inside chest of the jacket, with a more script-like '346', usually white/silver on a blue background.

Edit: Just realized you said it was a sack suit. I can't say for sure, but I don't think the new '346' line does sack suits.


----------



## Reddington

wnh said:


> I can't give you a date, but all of the old '346' suits and jackets I've seen have the tag on the collar, with "Brooks Brothers" and "346" in block letters, the "346" being underneath the "Brooks Brothers." All of the new '346' stuff I've seen, though, has a tag on the inside chest of the jacket, with a more script-like '346', usually white/silver on a blue background.
> 
> Edit: Just realized you said it was a sack suit. I can't say for sure, but I don't think the new '346' line does sack suits.


Thanks wnh. I know by the tag / label that the suit is not an outlet model. However, what I'm trying to determine is could it be reasonably possible to find an 'old line' 346 in new or unworn condition. The seller is advertising it as 'new without tags' and I'm somewhat skeptical if it's several years old. 

Edit: Here's the to the suit. What do y'all think? Really new w/o tags or too good to be true. I think I'm leaning towards the latter.


----------



## Northeastern

Reddington said:


> Thanks wnh. I know by the tag / label that the suit is not an outlet model. However, what I'm trying to determine is could it be reasonably possible to find an 'old line' 346 in new or unworn condition. The seller is advertising it as 'new without tags' and I'm somewhat skeptical if it's several years old.
> 
> Edit: Here's the to the suit. What do y'all think? Really new w/o tags or too good to be true. I think I'm leaning towards the latter.


Too Good to be True I think. It also looks wicked long to me, but that's probably because there are no hands in those sleeves to ease my mind.


----------



## wnh

Reddington said:


> Thanks wnh. I know by the tag / label that the suit is not an outlet model. However, what I'm trying to determine is could it be reasonably possible to find an 'old line' 346 in new or unworn condition. The seller is advertising it as 'new without tags' and I'm somewhat skeptical if it's several years old.
> 
> Edit: Here's the to the suit. What do y'all think? Really new w/o tags or too good to be true. I think I'm leaning towards the latter.


My mistake -- I misread your question. It's certainly possible for a suit that old (however old it may be -- someone else will know better than I) to be NWOT, but it's also not possible to know for sure as far as I know. I saw about three NWT BB poplin suits up a couple of months ago that were probably 20+ years old.

Looking at the seller's other listings, there are some described as "new," others as "mint," and others without any description as to the condition. He's got good feedback, for what it's worth. And even if it's not NWOT, it still appears to be in fantastic shape and would certainly be worth the price that it's currently sitting at.

Of course, you could always ask the seller how he knows it's NWOT. If he picked up the suit from somebody who purchased it, had it fitted, and never wore it, that would make sense. But if he just picked it up, say, at a thrift store or garage sale, how can he even be sure of its condition?

The jacket does look ridiculously long, as Northeastern said, but the measurements are normal. The seller probably isn't doing himself a favor by hiking the trousers up so high and having a tie that hangs down so low, but it's his (potential) loss.


----------



## wessex

*Question for the shoe masters*

I'm not sure of the actual terms, but I own two distinct types of horsehair shoe brushes:

1) the smaller one - 1-inch diameter of actual brush that you dip into the polish/wax and smear it onto the shoe

2) the larger one - maybe 3"x8" with longer bristles used to brush off the dried polish and for daily touch-up

For obvious reasons, I use different #1 brushes for brown and black. Is it necessary to have multiple #2 brushes for brown & black?


----------



## mcarthur

^ yes. each color of calf should have their own brush as well as each color of shell cordovan


----------



## Lawson

I noticed a character on a Matlock rerun combining white bucks with khakis and a polo shirt. Forum members often recommend pairing them with a seersucker suit, but I have not read about other possibilities. Are they as versatile as loafers? Can they be worn with any pant color and any type of fabric?


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> I noticed a character on a Matlock rerun combining white bucks with khakis and a polo shirt. Forum members often recommend pairing them with a seersucker suit, but I have not read about other possibilities. Are they as versatile as loafers? Can they be worn with any pant color and any type of fabric?


I think you'd want to stay away from wool, but I may be wrong. Bucs just seem too casual to go with wool trousers. Perhaps they'd go with tropical wool in a light shade, though. Beats me. But anything cotton or linen ought to be fine.


----------



## anglophile23

Lawson said:


> I noticed a character on a Matlock rerun combining white bucks with khakis and a polo shirt. Forum members often recommend pairing them with a seersucker suit, but I have not read about other possibilities. Are they as versatile as loafers? Can they be worn with any pant color and any type of fabric?


I would avoid wool as the poster above said, but really if you like them with something even wool then your own tastes should be your guide. Remember the best dressers not only know the "rules" but also how to bend if not break them.


----------



## playdohh22

Are all the buttons for Harris Tweed jackets the same ?

Example:
https://jackets.queencitytrader.com/Mar/week2/05Thursday/04/0313_4 331.jpg
https://i14.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/e1/5f/104e_1.JPG
https://i17.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/e1/6d/3128_10.JPG


----------



## AlanC

^No. Harris tweed is simply a cloth that is then used by different makers in different styles. Any sort of button could be used. Leather buttons are very common with tweeds, however.


----------



## tripreed

anglophile23 said:


> I would avoid wool as the poster above said, but really if you like them with something even wool then your own tastes should be your guide. Remember the best dressers not only know the "rules" but also how to bend if not break them.


I think this look from J. Crew actually looks pretty good


----------



## playdohh22

AlanC said:


> ^No. Harris tweed is simply a cloth that is then used by different makers in different styles. Any sort of button could be used. Leather buttons are very common with tweeds, however.


Thanks.

I have two questions this time.

1) When wearing a dress shirt + V neck + tie, is it OK to put the tie in front of the sweater ? In other words not keeping it under the sweater.

2) What is the appropriate length for shorts ? Or should I say what t would look most awkward, and what not ? Below knee, above knee , thigh area...


----------



## wnh

playdohh22 said:


> 1) When wearing a dress shirt + V neck + tie, is it OK to put the tie in front of the sweater ? In other words not keeping it under the sweater.


No. Not unless... No.



> 2) What is the appropriate length for shorts ? Or should I say what t would look most awkward, and what not ? Below knee, above knee , thigh area...


It depends largely on your build and your own preferences. Below the knee is probably a no-no, unless you're a skater or something. And mid-thigh might not be a good idea unless you're playing in the NBA in the 70's. To the top of the knee is probably a safe bet for about anybody.


----------



## wnh

What is the proper way to measure lapel width? The best thing I could figure was to lay the measuring tape across the lapels, from the point of one to the point of the other, and measure the width of the individual lapel that way, from point A to point B as shown below. Is this right? I was getting typical measurements -- 3.25", 3.5", 3.75" -- so it seemed reasonable.


----------



## hbecklin

A quick question on this linen shirt:


I usually wear a 45 chest in my suits and sportscoats (at least the ones that haven't been tailored to the end of the earth). To my knowledge of European sizing, you should add ten to your chest measurement. It seems that STP has converted these wrong. I take a 16.5 in a BB Traditional as well as luxury fit, if that helps any of you any. Should I take the 56 or the 58?

Thanks


----------



## hbs midwest

Reddington said:


> Ok, a stupid bowtie question.
> 
> Having always worn repp, club, or knit ties, I've now moved into bowties (thanks to the influence of the fine folks at AAAC Trad forum.)
> 
> I'm still practicing how to tie it, but I'm curious about the size of the bowtie and where to set the adjustable tab. I wear a 15 ½ collar, so do I set the bowtie at 15 ½ or go up or down some? My apologies for asking such a question, but I never want to assume something and feel it's best to ask.
> 
> Thanks all.


OK, here goes:
I wear a 16" collar; I have found that adjusting the bowtie band to 15.5" comes about as close as I could hope (READ: drop at least 1/2" from shirt collar size).

hbs


----------



## wessex

mcarthur said:


> ^ yes. each color of calf should have their own brush as well as each color of shell cordovan


Thanks Mac, you must have a separate closet for all your brushes.

When you refer to cowhide as calf, does this imply that better shoe leather comes from younger cows?


----------



## mcarthur

^ your question is out of my area of expertise


----------



## wnh

wessex said:


> When you refer to cowhide as calf, does this imply that better shoe leather comes from younger cows?


Seems like all of the nice shoes I've ever seen have been described as calf. I don't know if shoes are even made out of cowhide -- maybe that stuff's all bought out by Rawlings.


----------



## Lawson

The more tasteful regimental ties I see have no more than three colors. More than three colors often puts the tie in S&K territory. might be an exception because the red and yellow stripes are extremely narrow. Where do you draw the line?


----------



## AlanC

There is no more classic and tasteful regimental than the Argyle & Sutherland.


----------



## wnh

I just asked this yesterday, but since this thread seems to move pretty slowly I don't want it to get stuck unanswered.



wnh said:


> What is the proper way to measure lapel width? The best thing I could figure was to lay the measuring tape across the lapels, from the point of one to the point of the other, and measure the width of the individual lapel that way, from point A to point B as shown below. Is this right? I was getting typical measurements -- 3.25", 3.5", 3.75" -- so it seemed reasonable.


----------



## Vardeman Sneed

tripreed said:


> I think this look from J. Crew actually looks pretty good


My opinion on this suit is different than tripreed's.

To me, the following are issues:
The slacks need to be longer in the rise to avoid the 'triangle' of shirt below the jacket's middle button and the top of the slacks.
The jacket looks like it has large armholes.
The bottom of the slacks looks 'bunched up', a nice half-break or full-break hem would work wonders here.
Again, my opinion only. YMMV


----------



## Lawson

I am devising a hierarchy of shirts for work and weekends. For weekends and casual days at the office, I throw on OCBDs sized SMLXL with unlined collars. On dressier work days that call for a tie, I reach for fitted OCBDs with lined collars. Are lined collars considered more suitable for ties and dressier work days?


----------



## Naval Gent

*When is the J. Press Summer Sale?*

When is the J. Press Summer Sale? Do the majority of the current season stuff get marked down, or just the "dogs"?

How about O'Connells?

Thanks,

Scott


----------



## Tucker

Naval Gent said:


> When is the J. Press Summer Sale? Do the majority of the current season stuff get marked down, or just the "dogs"?
> 
> How about O'Connells?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott


The Press sale usually starts near the end of June and includes everything (seasonal). O'Connell's had a sale about the same time (maybe mid-July) last year, if I recall correctly.


----------



## Northeastern

Lawson said:


> I am devising a hierarchy of shirts for work and weekends. For weekends and casual days at the office, I throw on OCBDs sized SMLXL with unlined collars. On dressier work days that call for a tie, I reach for fitted OCBDs with lined collars. Are lined collars considered more suitable for ties and dressier work days?


This isn't much of an answer, but I believe it's personal preference. You're dead on with fitted OCBD's as the more formal or dressier option, and that's as far as I take it.


----------



## Naval Gent

Tucker said:


> The Press sale usually starts near the end of June and includes everything (seasonal). O'Connell's had a sale about the same time (maybe mid-July) last year, if I recall correctly.


Much obliged. Press has a summer jacket (or two) with my name on it.

Scott


----------



## paper clip

Lawson said:


> I am devising a hierarchy of shirts for work and weekends. For weekends and casual days at the office, I throw on OCBDs sized SMLXL with unlined collars. On dressier work days that call for a tie, I reach for fitted OCBDs with lined collars. Are lined collars considered more suitable for ties and dressier work days?


It all depends on how the tie looks with the collar - for me ties don't work with a s,m,l, etc. collar - too much gap.

oxford cloth button down collars (more casual - even with a sized collar and tie)look better unlined - the more formal the shirt/occasion, the better a lined collar looks, IMHO.


----------



## Sartre

Naval Gent said:


> Much obliged. Press has a summer jacket (or two) with my name on it.
> 
> Scott


If you're fortunate enough to make it into one of the Press stores during sale time (admittedly this may be a bit of a stretch coming from Knoxville!), you'll find lots of stuff that isn't even in the catalog. During this year's winter sale I picked up sport jackets from the NY store in black watch tartan, olive houndstooth, and charcoal herringbone for a total of $750.

Tjs


----------



## playdohh22

What is the difference between a bespoke suit and MTM suit ?


----------



## randomdude

Tucker said:


> The Press sale usually starts near the end of June and includes everything (seasonal). O'Connell's had a sale about the same time (maybe mid-July) last year, if I recall correctly.


Is the O'Connell's sale on everything?


----------



## Tucker

randomdude said:


> Is the O'Connell's sale on everything?


I received the following in an e-mail from O'Connell's last year for their "Expansion-Remodeling" sale:

_Save on seasonal suits, sportcoats, trousers, cotton sweaters, bermudas, sport shirts and polos. Plus, first time ever savings on select men's shirts, neckwear, and outerwear, along with women's blouses, suits, and skirts. _

This summer's sale, if there is one, could be entirely different in scope. I'm sure that someone will post when the sale is announced.


----------



## Patrick06790

playdohh22 said:


> What is the difference between a bespoke suit and MTM suit ?


I might be able to afford MTM. I'll have to wait for the Publisher's Clearing House Prize Patrol to show up before I go bespoke.

As I understand it, made to measure suits are cut to your specs from a pre-existing pattern or template or whatever it's called. Depending on the place doing it I think the customer can specify some details, but not all. You get a mixture of handwork and machine. Bottom line, if you are hard to fit and can afford an extra few hundred bucks MTM is the way to go.

Bespoke is completely custom, for you, period. The resale value of my car would buy me a pair of pants and one suit sleeve at this level. Maybe.

The guys on the main forum know much more about this stuff. We get excited when someone finds deadstock Wigwam socks for $4/pair.


----------



## Tucker

Patrick06790 said:


> We get excited when someone finds deadstock Wigwam socks for $4/pair.


Are you holding back? WHERE? WHAT COLORS?


----------



## Naval Gent

Patrick06790 said:


> We get excited when someone finds deadstock Wigwam socks for $4/pair.





Tucker said:


> Are you holding back? WHERE? WHAT COLORS?


FWIW, Gander Mountain (the outdoor supplier) has cream colored wool / nylon Wigwams. Very anachronistic looking, and therefore right down my alley. Seems like they're $5.95 or so.

Scott


----------



## playdohh22

Patrick06790 said:


> I might be able to afford MTM. I'll have to wait for the Publisher's Clearing House Prize Patrol to show up before I go bespoke.
> 
> As I understand it, made to measure suits are cut to your specs from a pre-existing pattern or template or whatever it's called. Depending on the place doing it I think the customer can specify some details, but not all. You get a mixture of handwork and machine. Bottom line, if you are hard to fit and can afford an extra few hundred bucks MTM is the way to go.
> 
> Bespoke is completely custom, for you, period. The resale value of my car would buy me a pair of pants and one suit sleeve at this level. Maybe.
> 
> The guys on the main forum know much more about this stuff. We get excited when someone finds deadstock Wigwam socks for $4/pair.


Thanks Patrick for clearing that up for me ! :icon_smile_big:

And as for my question. I wasn't looking to purchase anything. I was just curious, and wanted to add to my knowledge. Adding a few hundred ? Oh you must be kidding... I don't even have a few hundred to splurge on a suit off the rack. I'm still a student. 

I have another question  .What is the difference between a sports coat and blazer ?

Here is what I think of the two. Sports coat are usually patterned and made with a variety of fabrics ? Where as a blazer is usually solid and made with more plain fabric such as wool ? Can someone help me clear up the misconception ?


----------



## AlanC

^A *blazer* is solid (although some traditional club blazers were striped), usually navy, and has metal buttons (sometimes mother of pearl). They can also be double-breasted. A *sportcoat* is simply an 'odd jacket', a jacket worn without matching trousers, excepting daytime formal and semi-formal wear (morning coat or stroller).

With most *MTM* you can specifiy various features such as type of vent, number of buttons on the jacket, pleats/no pleats, ticket pocket or not, that sort of thing.


----------



## playdohh22

Thanks Alan !

And so, how can you tell the difference between a blazer and suit jacket ? 

Sorry for all the questions, you guys are REALLY helpful. :icon_smile:


----------



## paper clip

playdohh22 said:


> Thanks Alan !
> 
> And so, how can you tell the difference between a blazer and suit jacket ?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, you guys are REALLY helpful. :icon_smile:


GENERALLY, the easiest was is to check out the buttons - if they closely match the color of the jacket fabric, it's an orfling suit coat.

If the buttons contrast - pearl, corozo nut, horn, gold, brass, pewter, its meant to be a blazer.


----------



## wnh

playdohh22 said:


> Thanks Alan !
> 
> And so, how can you tell the difference between a blazer and suit jacket ?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, you guys are REALLY helpful. :icon_smile:


Another strong indicator is if the jacket has a certain subtle pattern, such as a pinstripe or glen plaid. To my knowledge, all pinstripe jackets being sold alone on eBay or in thrift stores are either orphaned suit jackets or are from a company that you shouldn't be buying a jacket from anyway, like Target or Express or something. Pinstripe 'blazers' were 'in' a few years ago, and I imagine they're still pretty easy to find. But unless you're shooting for AmJack, don't wear a pinstripe jacket unless the trousers match (i.e. a suit).

As for plaids and other patterns, the bolder the pattern the more likely the jacket is to be an odd jacket. Generally speaking, more subtle patterns are found on suitings.

As for how to distinguish a navy blazer from an orphaned navy suit jacket, paper clip is pretty much spot on. Once you're familiar with fabrics that'll help too, since most blazers are made from different material (usually a rougher weave) than suits.


----------



## Lawson

Are wool surcingle belts acceptable year-round wear? Someone told me that they should be worn only in cold weather because they are wool.


----------



## AldenPyle

Lawson said:


> Are wool surcingle belts acceptable year-round wear? Someone told me that they should be worn only in cold weather because they are wool.


The rule on this is fairly strict. From the Vernal Equinox to Saint Swithens day, only wool surcingle. For the reverse, cotton surcingle.


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> Are wool surcingle belts acceptable year-round wear? Someone told me that they should be worn only in cold weather because they are wool.


I've got two and wear them year-round. I see no reason to relegate the to cold weather only, since the wool itself has no function related to the temperature. And nobody else is going to know by a glance whether the belt is made of wool or cotton, or even linen, so why bother?


----------



## Naval Gent

AldenPyle said:


> The rule on this is fairly strict. From the Vernal Equinox to Saint Swithens day, only wool surcingle. For the reverse, cotton surcingle.


Saint Swithuns, indeed? Sir, you astonish me. All this thime I thought the transitions were at Michaelmas and Whitsun.

Scott


----------



## AldenPyle

Naval Gent said:


> Saint Swithuns, indeed? Sir, you astonish me. All this thime I thought the transitions were at Michaelmas and Whitsun.
> 
> Scott


Only if you are old school.

I do have my own silly surcingle question. Black surcingle belt: brown or black shoes?


----------



## Lawson

Black. It's usually tough to find a tasteful shoe that matches a surcingle belt. You should have no trouble finding a tasteful black shoe, though. 

I will be wearing white canvas shoes with stone khakis on warmer days. Do white canvas shoes and stone khakis go together well if the shoe color can easily be distinguished from the pant color? 

The only other shoes I own that look right in warm weather are Weejuns. Is the contrast between burgundy Weejuns and stone khakis too severe? To me, the contrast is a bit harsh but not as harsh as the contrast with dark brown or black shoes. I would opt for white or dirty bucks if I could splurge.


----------



## paper clip

Lawson said:


> I will be wearing white canvas shoes with stone khakis on warmer days. Do white canvas shoes and stone khakis go together well if the shoe color can easily be distinguished from the pant color?
> 
> The only other shoes I own that look right in warm weather are Weejuns. Is the contrast between burgundy Weejuns and stone khakis too severe? To me, the contrast is a bit harsh but not as harsh as the contrast with dark brown or black shoes. I would opt for white or dirty bucks if I could splurge.


Good question - I like the idea of the white canvas shoes. I agree on the harshness of contrast of "dress shoes" colors with stone chinos. I usually avoid the issue by wearing more causal shoes with stone chinos - camp mocs or boat shoes both sans socks. I don't wear stone colored pants in the fall or winter. I guess pennys are the most "formal" casual shoe I would wear with stone, but I agree about the color contrast giving me some pause...so I wear my unlined leather venetians without socks in that case...


----------



## Sartre

^ Tan or whiskey is another good choice with stone colored khakis.

TJS


----------



## Orsini

How come there isn't one of these for the fashion forum?


----------



## AlanC

Orsini said:


> How come there isn't one of these for the fashion forum?


They're not as quick on the uptake over there.

:biggrin2:


----------



## playdohh22

Can someone tell me where I can find jackets, similar to the ones listed below, for spring ? ( At a budget price )

https://www.randomshiznat.com/styleforum/20080401-1.jpg
https://www.randomshiznat.com/styleforum/20080331-1.jpg
https://www.randomshiznat.com/styleforum/20080314-1.jpg


----------



## Lawson

Soft, thin cotton sport shirts in plaid or checks found in the men's section of any department store (see below) are seldom mentioned on this board. They look fine as a casual shirt and offer more variety than OCBDs. Is there something un-Trad about them?










Are creases in nantucket red pants frowned upon?

How do you like the look of a sweater worn over a collared shirt without a jacket when the weather is nippy but not freezing?


----------



## Tucker

Lawson said:


> Soft, thin cotton sport shirts in plaid or checks found in the men's section of any department store (see below) are seldom mentioned on this board. They look fine as a casual shirt and offer more variety than OCBDs. Is there something un-Trad about them?


Not in the least. I like the BB tartans and have a few Polo glen plaid shirts of this type. Works well under a Shetland, too.



Lawson said:


> Are creases in nantucket red pants frowned upon?


True reds (e.g., Murray's) are a very casual trouser and made of a rough cotton canvas cloth. I can't imagine ever ironing a pair.


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> Soft, thin cotton sport shirts in plaid or checks found in the men's section of any department store (see below) are seldom mentioned on this board. They look fine as a casual shirt and offer more variety than OCBDs. Is there something un-Trad about them?


They may not be particularly 'trad', but they're certainly not anti-trad. I've got a Polo one in a tartan plaid that's nice for spring and summer.



> How do you like the look of a sweater worn over a collared shirt without a jacket when the weather is nippy but not freezing?


Look through the pictures of the What Are You Wearing? thread and you'll see numerous examples of this. This is what I typically wear to my business casual job.


----------



## paper clip

Lawson said:


> Soft, thin cotton sport shirts in plaid or checks found in the men's section of any department store (see below) are seldom mentioned on this board. They look fine as a casual shirt and offer more variety than OCBDs. Is there something un-Trad about them?
> 
> Are creases in nantucket red pants frowned upon?
> 
> How do you like the look of a sweater worn over a collared shirt without a jacket when the weather is nippy but not freezing?


a. I love such shirts. I have several from Lands End and Polo and Bean. They break up the monotony of solid OCBDs. I usually try to alternate these shirts with OCBDs during the workweek when I am not dressed up.

b. Depends on the fabric, IMO. They are by definition casual pants, esp. the oxford cloth or canvas ones (heavier cloth, less likely to be horribly wrinkly). Perhaps if you got a pair in poplin, you might have to press them at least a little bit to make them presentable....

c. I wear this every day in the winter when I am not wearing a jacket or suit. (Lots of pics in the What are you Wearing thread).


----------



## Lawson

paper clip said:


> c. I wear this every day in the winter when I am not wearing a jacket or suit. (Lots of pics in the What are you Wearing thread).


My only concern is that a basic 100 percent cotton shirt would look like a raisin when I shed the sweater.


----------



## bd79cc

Lawson said:


> Soft, thin cotton sport shirts in plaid or checks found in the men's section of any department store (see below) are seldom mentioned on this board. They look fine as a casual shirt and offer more variety than OCBDs. Is there something un-Trad about them?


Whenever I see someone wearing one of these shirts, I look at their feet to see if they're wearing Earth Shoes. I always associate the shirts with the tree-huggers of the early 1970's.

Maybe this sort of shirt has already lived down those old preconceptions, and I wasn't notified.


----------



## Lawson

The only shade of yellow I can successfully wear is a pale shade. OCBDs often come in brighter buttery yellows, but the white weave gives the shirt a pastel hue. Do you think the dimming effect of the white specs, as seen below, makes the shirt light enough for me to wear?










What is the best shoe lace knot for boat shoes worn with long pants? I am looking for a knot that looks decent and won't come undone when the pant leg brushes against it.


----------



## Doctor Damage

AldenPyle said:


> I do have my own silly surcingle question. Black surcingle belt: brown or black shoes?


Match the leather furniture, not the actual cloth?

DD


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> What is the best shoe lace knot for boat shoes worn with long pants? I am looking for a knot that looks decent and won't come undone when the pant leg brushes against it.


Just tie your freaking shoes. If the knot comes undone, do a double knot.


----------



## AldenPyle

Lawson said:


> Getting better laces will help
> What is the best shoe lace knot for boat shoes worn with long pants? I am looking for a knot that looks decent and won't come undone when the pant leg brushes against it.


----------



## Intrepid

*Ian's shoe lace web site*



Lawson said:


> The only shade of yellow I can successfully wear is a pale shade. OCBDs often come in brighter buttery yellows, but the white weave gives the shirt a pastel hue. Do you think the dimming effect of the white specs, as seen below, makes the shirt light enough for me to wear?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the best shoe lace knot for boat shoes worn with long pants? I am looking for a knot that looks decent and won't come undone when the pant leg brushes against it.


I no longer have it bookmarked, but there is a web site under the name of Ian's shoe laces, or something like that. Andy said that Ian is a member here.

If you will take the time to check this out, you will learn how to tie a shoe lace knot that doesn't come untied, until you want it to. It also avoids the double knot that really is unsightly.

Ian's knot works for dress shoes, running shoes, and boat shoes. The knot lies flat, and you never have to worry about it coming untied. It comes untied easily when you are ready, by simply pulling both ends of the lace.

Of all of the things that you learn here, you may find that this small item ranks near the top of your list.


----------



## Sartre

*Question on New Shell Loafers*

Just took delivery of a new pair of C&J "Harvard" loafers in whiskey shell. Great shoes in all respects (for that investment, they'd better be), but one surprise: the leather is not as highly polished/burnished as, say, a typical pair of Aldens. It has the gloss of a normal pair of calfs at best.

Question is, should I load up with several coats of polish to bring up the shine, or just leave 'em alone? (Typically I try to avoid too much polish.) Wish I had a photo to share...

TJS


----------



## mcarthur

Sartre said:


> Just took delivery of a new pair of C&J "Harvard" loafers in whiskey shell. Great shoes in all respects (for that investment, they'd better be), but one surprise: the leather is not as highly polished/burnished as, say, a typical pair of Aldens. It has the gloss of a normal pair of calfs at best.
> 
> Question is, should I load up with several coats of polish to bring up the shine, or just leave 'em alone? (Typically I try to avoid too much polish.) Wish I had a photo to share...
> 
> TJS


I would avoid the polish. Brush vigorously with a horse hair brush


----------



## Naval Gent

Lawson said:


> What is the best shoe lace knot for boat shoes worn with long pants? I am looking for a knot that looks decent and won't come undone when the pant leg brushes against it.


Right lace over left. Pull tight. Make the bows. Left lace over right. Pull tight. Remember, right over left, then left over right. Do not deviate.

If that doesn't work, maybe get some shoes with velcro.

Next week's lesson, the bowline.

Scott


----------



## mcarthur

Naval Gent said:


> Right lace over left. Pull tight. Make the bows. Left lace over right. Pull tight. Remember, right over left, then left over right. Do not deviate.
> 
> If that doesn't work, maybe get some shoes with velcro.
> 
> Next week's lesson, the bowline.
> 
> Scott


Thank you


----------



## Sartre

mcarthur said:


> I would avoid the polish. Brush vigorously with a horse hair brush


Thanks very much.

Tom


----------



## brozek

*J Press measurements?*

If anyone has a relatively new 38R, 39R, 40R, or 40L J Press sack suit, could you measure the shoulders, chest, length, and sleeve for me? I'm 175 and 6'2" and usually wear a 39L, but I've found that's an exceptionally rare size (and one J.Press doesn't make). If I could get measurements for one or two of the sizes around my range, I think I could triangulate to figure out which size to order from Press. Thanks!


----------



## Lawson

My workplace is fairly conservative. Should I avoid all emblematic ties at work in favor of repp and foulard ties?

I understand that emblematic ties are ties with shapes that have meaning, while foulard ties have patterns of shapes without meaning. Am I right?


----------



## Green3

test - just getting my feet wet...


----------



## mcarthur

^ Welcome to the forum


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> My workplace is fairly conservative. Should I avoid all emblematic ties at work in favor of repp and foulard ties?
> 
> I understand that emblematic ties are ties with shapes that have meaning, while foulard ties have patterns of shapes without meaning. Am I right?


Foulards, as far as I know, are printed geometric shapes. Emblematics can be anything, though typically featuring animals, and seem to be almost always embroidered.

I'm not sure if something like what Vineyard Vines offers would be considered emlematic or foulard, though my hunch would be emblematic, since they're not simple geometric designs.

Foulard (from Ben Silver):

Emblematic (also Ben Silver):


----------



## Lawson

wnh said:


> Foulards, as far as I know, are printed geometric shapes. Emblematics can be anything, though typically featuring animals, and seem to be almost always embroidered.
> 
> I'm not sure if something like what Vineyard Vines offers would be considered emlematic or foulard, though my hunch would be emblematic, since they're not simple geometric designs.


One article I read said that the shapes on foulard ties have to be symmetrical, which rules out some paisley ties. "Club" ties may be a more precise name than "emblematic." They all have shapes with overt meanings. Such ties are probably out of place where I work. Ties with the US seal or state flag might be exceptions if they are tasteful.


----------



## ksinc

I guess this can go here ... Search is not paying off.

What does everyone think about a solid tan suit in wool (instead of poplin, etc.)? 

Is that a mistake or a good investment?


----------



## wessex

If you live in Florida I would think it's a good investment. You may find a good gaberdine or tropical wool suit to be cooler/more comfortable than poplin (especially considering most have polyester content )


----------



## Duck

If you live in Anchorage. Get a poplin suit, their worth it. Wear it without socks.


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> One article I read said that the shapes on foulard ties have to be symmetrical, which rules out some paisley ties. "Club" ties may be a more precise name than "emblematic." They all have shapes with overt meanings. Such ties are probably out of place where I work. Ties with the US seal or state flag might be exceptions if they are tasteful.


I don't know that a tie's pattern has to be symmetrical to be considered foulard, but that's just a hunch. What was the article? Either way, the one above is at least close enough to a foulard to be appropriate for any conservative workplace or event.

Club ties, I think, are a subset of emblematics. Specifically, to my knowledge, they are emblematics that refer to a particular club or organization, ideally that one belongs to.

Simple club ties or crested ties should be fine for a conservative workplace, but ones with dogs or flying ducks or pink elephants may not be most appropriate.


----------



## wnh

ksinc said:


> I guess this can go here ... Search is not paying off.
> 
> What does everyone think about a solid tan suit in wool (instead of poplin, etc.)?
> 
> Is that a mistake or a good investment?


I think it'd be fine, but only for the warmer months. Dressier than poplin.


----------



## Sartre

^ The choice between wool vs. poplin comes down to (1) how dressy you want to look (as wnh says, wool is dressier than poplin), and (2) how much time you will be spending out of doors (poplin is cooler than wool; then again most of us are in air conditioning during the summer months).

TJS


----------



## playdohh22

Are brass button blazers only suited for the elders ? It seems so for some people over on SF...


----------



## browning806

playdohh22 said:


> Are brass button blazers only suited for the elders ? It seems so for some people over on SF...


Brass buttons are coming back among the younger set


----------



## Sartre

^ Let's face it, nowadays pretty much anything other than a hoody, flip flops, and shorts with "Juicy" written across the fanny is only suited for the elders. However, a navy blazer with brass buttons is a _sine qua non_ of the trad wardrobe.


----------



## playdohh22

Why is it when I try to tie the full winsdor knot, the length always ends up too short ? Might anyone know what I'm doing wrong ?


----------



## wnh

^ A full Windsor takes up more of the tie than a four-in-hand or even a half-Windsor. Try making the long end longer before you begin tying. This will make the tail end shorter once you're done, but it'll make the front longer in the process.


----------



## nerdykarim

Or just tie more four-in-hands :devil:


----------



## paper clip

playdohh22 said:


> Why is it when I try to tie the full winsdor knot, the length always ends up too short ? Might anyone know what I'm doing wrong ?


I'm 6' 3", and I used to tie half-windsors, but they came up short. When I bought longer ties, the length is added on the skinny part, so I had a ridiculous looking fat small knot.

Now that I've gone back to 4-I-H knots, my regular ties have plenty of length, and my knots look better.


----------



## Quay

paper clip said:


> I'm 6' 3", and I used to tie half-windsors, but they came up short. When I bought longer ties, the length is added on the skinny part, so I had a ridiculous looking fat small knot.
> 
> Now that I've gone back to 4-I-H knots, my regular ties have plenty of length, and my knots look better.


I'm the same height and had the same problem. The four-in-hand looks good with almost all of my ties so i don't worry about it much. The few ties I have that call for a full windsor are ones I don't wear very often.

Cordially,
A.Q.


----------



## NattyReview

*HF*

I asked this elsewhere on the Trad forum, but this thread seems more appropriate: Is Hickey Freeman and H.Freeman & Sons (of Philly) the same thing?


----------



## wnh

I answered this elsewhere, but I'll do it here too. The two are not the same. I believe (though I could be wrong) that H. Freeman & Sons is/was the name of a store, while Hickey Freeman is a maker. So Hickey Freeman makes suits for people/stores, while H. Freeman & Sons has/had makers make suits for them.


----------



## Topsider

Generally-speaking, Hickey Freeman stuff is usually off-the-rack, while H. Freeman is usually made-to-measure nowadays.

Hickey Freeman does offer a made-to-measure service, although I haven't encountered a store yet that offers it. It's mentioned on their Web site, however:


----------



## AlanC

NattyReview said:


> I asked this elsewhere on the Trad forum, but this thread seems more appropriate: Is Hickey Freeman and H.Freeman & Sons (of Philly) the same thing?


As stated, they are not the same, but both are makers of quality suits. H. Freeman has traditionally made suits more in the 'Trad' style, I would say.


----------



## XdryMartini

KentW said:


> Generally-speaking, Hickey Freeman stuff is usually off-the-rack, while H. Freeman is usually made-to-measure nowadays.
> 
> Hickey Freeman does offer a made-to-measure service, although I haven't encountered a store yet that offers it. It's mentioned on their Web site, however:


Franco's in Richmond does HF MTM.


----------



## ksinc

Hickey Freeman is hartmarx/HSM as are Austin Reed USA, Palm Beach, Jack Nicklaus, and Bobby Jones. https://www.hartmarx.com/links.htm

H.Freeman and English American are the same place. They are also the same as Tom James. 411 Cranberry Road, yada yada
https://www.englishamericanco.com/contact.asp

The natural shoulders suit model and the fabric codes are the same. I have no idea what 'level' of TJ that represents, but it's the trendaire/easyaire models in H.Freeman speak. They are full-canvas, MTM.

I can go to Tom James and find a fabric I want and then goto H.Freeman and order it.

Here's an example:

https://tomjames.com/asp/customclot...520&submit1=Show+Availability&level=1&exact=1

You can also 'walk' the cloth book even though TJ does not display all of them you can change to 181521 in the URL and get it.

It's not 100% accurate/updated, but it's close. Izzy/LS can usually order them from HF/EA. Here was a similar thread I remember. https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=63864


----------



## NattyReview

*Chipp Ties*

I just saw some Chipp ties for sale at the Alden store on Madison. Some are marked "Chipp2" (I'm guessing the NYC variant of the Cambridge store). I don't see that label very often, I'm guessing they've gone under.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

How hard is it to get stains out of a seersucker sport coat?

I've been checking out used ones, and even the newer ones have nasty yellow ring around the collar.


----------



## PorterSq

*Boat shoe questions*

What makes a sole a "camp sole?" Is it color, texture, both, other?

What's the function of the leather lacing that goes around the outside of the boat shoe?


----------



## jbryanb

PorterSq said:


> What makes a sole a "camp sole?" Is it color, texture, both, other?
> 
> What's the function of the leather lacing that goes around the outside of the boat shoe?


The lacing on the outside of boat shoes is, IMHO, mainly for aesthetics. But, they are still part of the actual laces on the front of the shoe, so if you tighten the laces, the lacing around the outside will tighten around the entire shoe.


----------



## Sartre

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> How hard is it to get stains out of a seersucker sport coat?
> 
> I've been checking out used ones, and even the newer ones have nasty yellow ring around the collar.


I've had decent experience getting out minor stains (e.g. coffee spill), but it sounds like what you're describing is not a stain so much as soiling that has built up over time -- which I would not be optimistic about. Remember that you're talking about a garment that's 50% white, so over time there could be gradual soiling, especially around the neck (think about the yellowing around the neck of an old white oxford shirt -- impossible to remove, right?).

TJS


----------



## PorterSq

jbryanb said:


> The lacing on the outside of boat shoes is, IMHO, mainly for aesthetics. But, they are still part of the actual laces on the front of the shoe, so if you tighten the laces, the lacing around the outside will tighten around the entire shoe.


Interesting. Thanks, Sartre. Can you also help w/ the other part of the question - what makes it a camp sole?

Many thanks!


----------



## Orsini

*Question Regarding Guardsman Slant*

Can guardsman slant be combined with cuffs? Or, is this a tailoring impossibility?


----------



## paper clip

PorterSq said:


> Interesting. Thanks, Sartre. Can you also help w/ the other part of the question - what makes it a camp sole?
> 
> Many thanks!


my experience with camp soles leads me to note that the distinguishing characteristics are:

dark brown in color
one piece solid rubbery compound
generally flat with an indentation from the middle of the sole back towards the heel
slightly molded pattern on the sole - like little asterisks - for traction
gets slightly thicker from front to back
usually come on blucher mocs and canoe mocs
have a cord sticking out of the heel (just kidding - my camera power cord got in the way there).

I got my Quoddy boats (picture below) with the camp sole though because I don't like the white sole of boat shoes.

Also, the Quoddy boats have three eyelets which puts them half way to a blucher moc as opposed to the usual 2 eyelet boat shoe....

the Quoddy leather laces do indeed go all the way around the shoe and are functional.


----------



## PorterSq

Thank you for the excellent explanation, Paper Clip. There is much to learn from you people!


----------



## ds23pallas

*Sack or Not*

Some time ago I received a couple of hand me down suits (among many other items) from my father that are dartless, and have flat-fronted pants with cuffs. I have never seen sack suits for sale in Canada - indeed, the manager of my local Harry Rosen had never heard of a sack suit. Another vendor told me my suits were "not proper sacks". I rummaged through the forum to try to find a "name" for this type of suit, to no avail. Would they simply be referred to as a dartless suit? The shoulders are padded, but not overly so, and there is some waste suppression. They are nearly 30 years old, if that means anything.

ds23pallas


----------



## paper clip

PorterSq said:


> Thank you for the excellent explanation, Paper Clip. There is much to learn from you people!


I'm pleased to assist a fellow Bay-Stater!


----------



## Lawson

While I am aware that some forum participants dislike all short-sleeve shirts, short-sleeve polo shirts seem to be sufficiently Trad. Banded sleeves on polo shirts keep the cut from looking too severe. Is there a general disdain for short-sleeve casual shirts that lack bands and look like they were crafted with scissors?

Why are many of you reluctant to wear button-down collars with a suit and tie but willing to combine them with a sport coat and tie? I prefer the look of an unbuttoned button-down shirt, lined or unlined, over an unbuttoned point collar shirt. The shadowy, unfurled wings look of an unbuttoned point collar turns me off. I am less convinced, however, that button-down collars look better buttoned up with a tie and sport coat. Point collars look a bit sharper than button-down collars when buttoned. The only reason persuading me to wear button-down collars with a tie is that button down collars are considered more casual.


----------



## wnh

I'm generally not a fan of button-up short-sleeved shirts, but I've got a madras one from Gant that I like fine. Part of the appeal, though, is that it's got a nice 50's vibe to it, rather than many modern incarnations that just look, for lack of a better word, wimpy. I'd never wear it untucked, though. Tuck it in, and I may as well have myself neutered -- that's how I feel about that look.

I like button-downs with a tie because of the way the collar roll frames the knot. Point collars, of course, are dressier, but I suppose that's why I like button-downs.


----------



## Patrick06790

Lawson said:


> Why are many of you reluctant to wear button-down collars with a suit and tie but willing to combine them with a sport coat and tie? I prefer the look of an unbuttoned button-down shirt, lined or unlined, over an unbuttoned point collar shirt. The shadowy, unfurled wings look of an unbuttoned point collar turns me off. I am less convinced, however, that button-down collars look better buttoned up with a tie and sport coat. Point collars look a bit sharper than button-down collars when buttoned. The only reason persuading me to wear button-down collars with a tie is that button down collars are considered more casual.


Depends entirely on the suit. With a poplin sack in the summer, I have no problem with a buttondown. Ditto in winter with a heavy old Brooks tweed sack.

But with more formal suits, or something with darts and/or side vents, I think the buttondown collar just looks misplaced. Like a Mickey Mouse watch or something.


----------



## Quay

Lawson said:


> While I am aware that some forum participants dislike all short-sleeve shirts, short-sleeve polo shirts seem to be sufficiently Trad. Banded sleeves on polo shirts keep the cut from looking too severe. Is there a general disdain for short-sleeve casual shirts that lack bands and look like they were crafted with scissors?
> 
> Why are many of you reluctant to wear button-down collars with a suit and tie but willing to combine them with a sport coat and tie? I prefer the look of an unbuttoned button-down shirt, lined or unlined, over an unbuttoned point collar shirt. The shadowy, unfurled wings look of an unbuttoned point collar turns me off. I am less convinced, however, that button-down collars look better buttoned up with a tie and sport coat. Point collars look a bit sharper than button-down collars when buttoned. The only reason persuading me to wear button-down collars with a tie is that button down collars are considered more casual.


The only short-sleeved shirts I have are polos with banded sleeves, some madras shirts and the assorted t-shirt. I only wear short sleeved shirts when it's very hot, when I'm lounging at home or when exercising.

As for suits, I came of age and education surrounded by New Englanders and all shirts with all suits had button-down collars. This was the style for everyone from professors to extremely wealthy financial folks at various trust offices. Except for black tie and variations on formal dress, I rarely ever wear a shirt with a suit that doesn't have a button down collar. All my suits are sack so I don't know what it would be like for the lines of the suit on a darted & tailored look with a button-down collar but it might very well look a bit out of place.

I definitely agree that without a tie only a button down collar looks like it's not missing something. Lovely phrase, that "shadowy, unfurled wings" of an open point collar!

Cordially,
Adrian Quay


----------



## Lawson

Should shades of denim vary by season? In other words, is it smart to wear dark indigo shades of denim in cold weather and a medium stonewash in summer? 

I am shopping for a seasonless pair of jeans, one that will look good with light and dark colored shirts. Is a medium stonewash, sort of a faded indigo, pair my best option?


----------



## playdohh22

In my honest opinion. I think dark dye indigo jeans are very versatile, and goes great with many things.


----------



## oxford

*Majer Clothing Brand*

Whats happening at the Majer Company. Have they gotten out of the suit and sportcoat business and gone to just trousers? They made awesome trad clothes for years, a mainstay label at trad shops all over the USA at one time. Are they still family owned by the Kramon's. Thanks.


----------



## AldenPyle

Lawson said:


> Should shades of denim vary by season? In other words, is it smart to wear dark indigo shades of denim in cold weather and a medium stonewash in summer?
> 
> I am shopping for a seasonless pair of jeans, one that will look good with light and dark colored shirts. Is a medium stonewash, sort of a faded indigo, pair my best option?


Jeans should be dark indigo when you buy them and greyish white threads when you throw them away.


----------



## PorterSq

*Breaking in Top-Siders*

I bought a new pair of Sperry Top-sider A/Os. I've never owned boat shoes before (for much of my life, I've had an aversion to wearing footwear without socks. I figured it was time I got over that).

Is there any special technique to break them in, or do I just follow the standard break-in procedure (i.e. wear them a few hours a day, expect a couple of blisters until they mold to my feet)?


----------



## Northeastern

PorterSq said:


> I bought a new pair of Sperry Top-sider A/Os. I've never owned boat shoes before (for much of my life, I've had an aversion to wearing footwear without socks. I figured it was time I got over that).
> 
> Is there any special technique to break them in, or do I just follow the standard break-in procedure (i.e. wear them a few hours a day, expect a couple of blisters until they mold to my feet)?


Sounds perfect except for the blisters. I've never had that happen with a pair of Sperrys or other well made boat shoe.


----------



## Duck

This is what you do with Sperrys. If you are near salt water, walk around in the sW for a few minutes and then walk around on dry land for a few minutes. If not go to a lake or just stand in the tub (don't walk around the house in wet Sperrys). After that just start wearing them.


----------



## Patrick06790

PorterSq said:


> I bought a new pair of Sperry Top-sider A/Os. I've never owned boat shoes before (for much of my life, I've had an aversion to wearing footwear without socks. I figured it was time I got over that).
> 
> Is there any special technique to break them in, or do I just follow the standard break-in procedure (i.e. wear them a few hours a day, expect a couple of blisters until they mold to my feet)?


Here's an E-Z way to deal with blisters. Apply duct tape to the affected area. By the time it falls off, the blister has healed and the boat shoes are worn in.


----------



## PorterSq

Thanks for the tips, all. I wore them today for the first time, and they fit like a dream, with the exception of one spot on the side of my foot where they rubbed the skin off (ouch). I'll try the trick of wearing them in the tub (Patrick, I know you're famous around here for your sense of humor, so I'll assume the duct tape trick is a joke...yes?).


----------



## lorkp

*Shotshell belt*

I'm thinking of getting a shotshell belt and I am wondering which is the tradier width-1 1/4" or 1 1/2"?


----------



## Patrick06790

PorterSq said:


> Thanks for the tips, all. I wore them today for the first time, and they fit like a dream, with the exception of one spot on the side of my foot where they rubbed the skin off (ouch). I'll try the trick of wearing them in the tub (Patrick, I know you're famous around here for your sense of humor, so I'll assume the duct tape trick is a joke...yes?).


No, that's a real tactic. I had a pair of cheapo Timberlands from the outlet store and they gave me fits the first few times. A surgeon pal of mine hipped me to the duct tape routine. The blisters healed and the shoes became very comfy.


----------



## PorterSq

Shoot, Patrick, I'm still not convinced this isn't a set-up, but I'm gonna do it. A guy as well dressed as you (I really do admire your outfits) can't be wrong...

When my toe turns green and falls off, we'll all have a good chuckle.


----------



## Patrick06790

PorterSq said:


> Shoot, Patrick, I'm still not convinced this isn't a set-up, but I'm gonna do it. A guy as well dressed as you (I really do admire your outfits) can't be wrong...
> 
> When my toe turns green and falls off, we'll all have a good chuckle.


Somerville, eh? I swear by my vague but fond memories of Johnny D's that this is for real.


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Collar tabs in a trad OCBD?*

Hi everyone --

I'm ready to upgrade my wardrobe from polo shirts, so I'm finally biting the bullet and ordering a MTM oxford button down shirt from Janzten. (If I like it, I'll get more. Lots more.)

Background: I really can't buy RTW because I have a giant 17" neck, but short little arms (32) and a smallish waist. I went to BB today, and they don't even MAKE a 17/32 except MTM for $175.)

Question: I LOVE the "trad" look of OCBD shirts with ties. I've been reading through the threads on this board, and marvelling at the way you guys look.

Should I get "collar tabs"? If so, should they be removable?

Thank you.

-- Joe "just getting warmed up" Beamish.


----------



## wnh

What are collar tabs?


----------



## Patrick06790

Joe Beamish said:


> Hi everyone --
> 
> I'm ready to upgrade my wardrobe from polo shirts, so I'm finally biting the bullet and ordering a MTM oxford button down shirt from Janzten. (If I like it, I'll get more. Lots more.)
> 
> Background: I really can't buy RTW because I have a giant 17" neck, but short little arms (32) and a smallish waist. I went to BB today, and they don't even MAKE a 17/32 except MTM for $175.)
> 
> Question: I LOVE the "trad" look of OCBD shirts with ties. I've been reading through the threads on this board, and marvelling at the way you guys look.
> 
> Should I get "collar tabs"? If so, should they be removable?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> -- Joe "just getting warmed up" Beamish.


Hi Joe -

There may be viable RTW options.

I looked at the websites quickly and determined that Lands End and Brooks (as you found out) don't offer 17-32. They do offer 17-33, and perhaps you could have them shortened.

LL Bean ostensibly offers 17-32 but every shirt configuration comes up as "sold out." This happens across the board, leading me to believe they don't offer the size at all, but a software glitch says otherwise. Worth a call to find out.

Paul Frederick lists some 17-32s. Here's a link. PF doesn't generate a lot of positive comments here (or much comment at all) but a representative posted a while back and seemed eager to get our business. It might be worth trying one of their shirts out. You can always return it.

Onwards and upwards...

If you're willing to spend for Jantzen then Mercer and Sons in Maine shouldn't be a problem in terms of price. And the Mercers will take about a month to deliver; from what I've read Jantzen is erratic in this area. You can also call David Mercer and talk about what you want. He's very informative and entertaining.

And forum member Shirtmaven runs CEGO in NYC. Forum member manton recently commissioned a couple of OCBDs; here is a discussion on that experience.

Finally, what do you mean by "collar tabs?" A tabbed collar, or collar stays in a non-buttondown collar? Or something else?


----------



## PorterSq

Patrick06790 said:


> Somerville, eh? I swear by my vague but fond memories of Johnny D's that this is for real.


Patrick - fair enough! You'll be glad to know that Johnny D's is still going strong. Live music every night and a fantastic jazz brunch on weekends (not a lot of OCBDs, but a lot of great music!).


----------



## Patrick06790

PorterSq said:


> Patrick - fair enough! You'll be glad to know that Johnny D's is still going strong. Live music every night and a fantastic jazz brunch on weekends (not a lot of OCBDs, but a lot of great music!).


I was around when it moved from Allston to Somerville.


----------



## Joe Beamish

*17/32 doesn't exist.*

Patrick -- Thank you!

I love the tailor idea. Do you think a NYC tailor would be willing to shorten the sleeves? And maybe take in the extra material in the torso? That is something I never even considered. I had assumed only suits, jackets and pants could be altered. I apparently overlooked the obvious.

I'll also look into Mercer.

What about buying a 16.5 and resewing the collar button? Is that a useful trick?

I have NO IDEA what "collar tabs" are. Janzten wants to know whether I wish to have them.


----------



## wnh

Joe Beamish said:


> What about buying a 16.5 and resewing the collar button? Is that a useful trick?


I don't think you'd be able to move it enough, and even if you did I'd think it would throw off the look.



> I have NO IDEA what "collar tabs" are. Janzten wants to know whether I wish to have them.


I wonder if they mean collar stays, which are only used on point collar shirts. I for one have no idea what else a "collar tab" could be.


----------



## Patrick06790

Joe Beamish said:


> Patrick -- Thank you!
> 
> I love the tailor idea. Do you think a NYC tailor would be willing to shorten the sleeves? And maybe take in the extra material in the torso? That is something I never even considered. I had assumed only suits, jackets and pants could be altered. I apparently overlooked the obvious.
> 
> I'll also look into Mercer.
> 
> What about buying a 16.5 and resewing the collar button? Is that a useful trick?
> 
> I have NO IDEA what "collar tabs" are. Janzten wants to know whether I wish to have them.


Sleeve shortening is a pretty common alteration. Other NY-based guys might chime in with some names of tailors.

This is what I would do, if I was in your shoes and had your apparent finances:

Short term strategy - get a PF shirt, see if it's any good. Get a few Lands End in 17-33, enough for a week's wearing. (Check overstocks section.) Obtain a set of these Thurston sleeve garters (scroll down) to hold your sleeves still in the interim. (They're a good investment anyway - I use mine all the time.) You can always have these shirts tailored later.

Consult with the Mercers and go visit Carl at CEGO for your long-term plans.

Finally, ask Jantzen what the heck they're talking about. If you ordered a shirt with a buttondown collar then that should be pretty straightforward.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I'm sorry. Um, I think I goofed. "Collar stays" are what Janzten is talking about. I think for my OCBD order, I'll request none.

I'll follow your advice and start with a handful of 17/33 LE shirts. And try the sleeve thingies. And snag a tailor.

For the record, my "apparent finances" will come into play when I start thrifting for sack sports jackets and the like, and pants. That's where I'll try to cut corners. But jeez Louise, I can't wear any of those lovely things and approximate the smashing good looks you and Brownshoe and AldenPyle and others are rocking without....shirts that fit. 

Not at all.


----------



## Patrick06790

Joe Beamish said:


> I'm sorry. Um, I think I goofed. "Collar stays" are what Janzten is talking about. I think for my OCBD order, I'll request none.
> 
> I'll follow your advice and start with a handful of 17/33 LE shirts. And try the sleeve thingies. And snag a tailor.
> 
> For the record, my "apparent finances" will come into play when I start thrifting for sack sports jackets and the like, and pants. That's where I'll try to cut corners. But jeez Louise, I can't wear any of those lovely things and approximate the smashing good looks you and Brownshoe and AldenPyle and others are rocking without....shirts that fit.
> 
> Not at all.


Buttondown collars don't have stays. Are you sure you ordered a BD?

The LE route is certainly the least expensive. Their standard ocbd starts at $20 or so. Pinpoints, which will be more pleasant in summer, are a bit more. Must-irons are usually cheaper than non-irons. The overstocks section is hit-or-miss, but I've hit more often than not. (I'm a 16.5 - 33, so I know about fat necks and short arms.)

But remember the Iron Rule - a bargain ceases to be so if it doesn't get worn. So start slowly and see how it goes.

Good luck.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Patrick -- I'm doing it to it. I left David Mercer a message. I ordered several LE shirts (not pinpoint, but oh well....).

About those arm things....

On the Thurston site that you so helpfully linked, should I get the "nickel plated armband"? Is that the sleeve garter you were referring to?

Thanks

Joe


----------



## Patrick06790

^ That's the one. You might call in at J. Press - they usually have them.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Do you only use armbands to shorten sleeve length?

I have a nice set from long ago, but never wear them because my sleeves either fit, or are on the short side.


----------



## anglophile23

I never wear a jacket with out Thurston nickel plated sleave garters.


----------



## JohnnyVegas

PorterSq said:


> Patrick - fair enough! You'll be glad to know that Johnny D's is still going strong. Live music every night and a fantastic jazz brunch on weekends (not a lot of OCBDs, but a lot of great music!).


We have another member living in Porter Square! Woo woo! Welcome!

(I know my location says Boston - I'm really in Porter)


----------



## Green3

Is this a men's shoe? The seller's listings of this model seem a little androgynous, and the name is odd.

I am looking for some cheapo brown tassels, and can't find a Bass in wide.


----------



## Patrick06790

^ That's weird. Looks like a man's shoe, but surely that's a stock photo. Ask the seller for a shot of the actual shoe.


----------



## wnh

Green3 said:


> Is this a men's shoe? The seller's listings of this model seem a little androgynous, and the name is odd.
> 
> I am looking for some cheapo brown tassels, and can't find a Bass in wide.


The listing _does_ say that the box indicates it's a women's shoe, and I'd trust that more than I'd trust the guy trying to sell the shoes. The shoe looks like it comes up kind of high in the back, but that could just be the angle. And the model is the "Heavenly." I'd stay away, even at that price. Search around and you ought to at least be able to find a decent pair of Bass tassels at that price.


----------



## Green3

wnh said:


> The listing _does_ say that the box indicates it's a women's shoe, and I'd trust that more than I'd trust the guy trying to sell the shoes. The shoe looks like it comes up kind of high in the back, but that could just be the angle. And the model is the "Heavenly." I'd stay away, even at that price. Search around and you ought to at least be able to find a decent pair of Bass tassels at that price.


He also indicates in another listing that he has a women's Heavenly.

I can't pull the trigger. Michael Scott wore a woman's suit in an episode of the Office. Shoes might be even worse.

LL Bean has some, but I don't like the kiltie, just a tassel.


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Measuring my waist: for Bills*

I own pants (mostly jeans and a variety of Club Monaco slacks) that are marked 32 in the waist and fit great.

But...using a tape measure, I'm not a 32 waist. More like a 34.

I want to buy some Bills online. Should I buy 32, 33, or 34?

Looking for a regular fit, whatever's classic. I'll probably get M2's.

Thanks

Joe


----------



## wnh

You're in NYC -- certainly you have plenty of places to try on Bills to figure out your size?


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Yes. Yes, but...*



wnh said:


> You're in NYC -- certainly you have plenty of places to try on Bills to figure out your size?


Yes, most likely. I wouldn't mind if you named the store.

On the other hand, I'm a busy lad and would like to order online.

And I'm sartorially ignorant as hell and trying to learn about these mystifying things -- like why my Club Monaco 32 pants (all 5 pair) fit perfectly...and yet, and yet. The tape tells a 34 type of tale....


----------



## wnh

Joe Beamish said:


> Yes, most likely. I wouldn't mind if you named the store.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm a busy lad and would like to order online.
> 
> And I'm sartorially ignorant as hell and trying to learn about these mystifying things -- like why my Club Monaco 32 pants (all 5 pair) fit perfectly...and yet, and yet. The tape tells a 34 type of tale....


I don't know where you'd find Bills in NYC, but if you check their website you can do a search by state or area code to find a store near you. You may be busy, but it's foolish to lay down $100 on a pair of khakis without knowing if they'll even fit. If you're going to spend the money, take the time to get it right. We can't tell you what will work for you.


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Just so!*

wnh -- You're quite right, of course. Thanks for the advice.

Joe


----------



## eagle2250

Joe Beamish said:


> ...I'm sartorially ignorant as hell and trying to learn about these mystifying things -- like why my Club Monaco 32 pants (all 5 pair) fit perfectly...and yet, and yet. The tape tells a 34 type of tale....


In my experience with Bill's, I've found it necessary to size up in the waist measurement. Normally purchasing pants with a 36" waist, I have to order a size larger in Bill's to get a good fit...they are roomy in every measurement, but the waist!


----------



## wnh

eagle2250 said:


> In my experience with Bill's, I've found it necessary to size up in the waist measurement. Normally purchasing pants with a 36" waist, I have to order a size larger in Bill's to get a good fit...they are roomy in every measurement, but the waist!


I read this same account from multiple people before purchasing my first pair, but I found that I didn't need to size up. Then again, my size 34 Bills fit better (closer) than some of my other pairs of size 34 pants, so maybe my other 34s were too big and should have been 33 instead.


----------



## paper clip

Joe Beamish said:


> I own pants (mostly jeans and a variety of Club Monaco slacks) that are marked 32 in the waist and fit great.
> 
> But...using a tape measure, I'm not a 32 waist. More like a 34.
> 
> I want to buy some Bills online. Should I buy 32, 33, or 34?
> 
> Looking for a regular fit, whatever's classic. I'll probably get M2's.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Joe


Hi Joe,

I consider myself a 32 in pants size. I just measured my waist - where I wear my Bills -and found that measurement to be 34" as well.

With Bills, I buy a 33 and then wash and fully dry the pants in the dryer before I get them hemmed, so most of shrinkage is done by that point.

Thereafter, I machine wash, dry for 5 minutes on low heat, and then hang dry by the cuffs.

Good luck!


----------



## AldenPyle

paper clip said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> I consider myself a 32 in pants size. I just measured my waist - where I wear my Bills -and found that measurement to be 34" as well.
> 
> With Bills, I buy a 33 and then wash and fully dry the pants in the dryer before I get them hemmed, so most of shrinkage is done by that point.
> 
> Thereafter, I machine wash, dry for 5 minutes on low heat, and then hang dry by the cuffs.
> 
> Good luck!


What is the point of the first five minutes of drying?


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Thank you for the Bills advice!*

Thank you, gentleman. That helps -- it's nice to hear that I'm not the only one with this apparent waist measurement discrepancy.

Speaking of laundering....

OCBD's -- do you dry 'em in the machine? Or let them hang dry and then iron?

Thanks yet again

Joe


----------



## paper clip

AldenPyle said:


> What is the point of the first five minutes of drying?


I've found that it knocks out the worst of the wrinkles, leading to flatter, neater pants after hanging.



Joe Beamish said:


> Thank you, gentleman. That helps -- it's nice to hear that I'm not the only one with this apparent waist measurement discrepancy.
> 
> Speaking of laundering....
> 
> OCBD's -- do you dry 'em in the machine? Or let them hang dry and then iron?
> 
> Thanks yet again
> 
> Joe


I use the same technique for my shirts - machine wash, 5 mins in the dryer on low heat, and then onto the hanger. Iron the next evening if required.

I usually do not iron my BB OCBDs, as the weight of the cloth pulls them straight enough. My LEs (not many left) and any poplin or broadcloth shirts need ironing to look presentable, even for causal wear.

I do confess to having to a couple of BB non-iron pinpoints for my infrequent suit wear. Those get the same treatment: wash, 5 min. dry, hanger, but due to necromancy and molecular manipulation, come out looking perfectly wrinkle free.


----------



## browning806

I know at least one poster knows the answer to this.

I'm looking at buying Alden Long Wing Tassel's and I really don't know what long wing means. What distinguishes the shoe from a wing tip?

Also are there any sartorial conventions I should be aware in terms of the do's and dont's of wing-tips and the like of before adding the shoe to my wardrobe. (mainly for wear with suits)

Cordovan is out of my price range, thanks anyway. :icon_smile:


----------



## Northeastern

browning806 said:


> I know at least one poster knows the answer to this.
> 
> I'm looking at buying Alden Long Wing Tassel's and I really don't know what long wing means. What distinguishes the shoe from a wing tip?


The "wing" design goes all the way around the shoe, whereas a wing tip just covers the toe and a bit down the sides.

Wingtip (AE McClain)

Longwing (AE MacNeil)


----------



## mcarthur

^ I would suggest the tassel slip-on(663-burgundy or 660-black) instead od the long wing tassel


----------



## Green3

What do people think of this jacket? Only two button, but I am getting tempted.

Not sure if this is the right thread. Opinions on both issues welcomed.


----------



## Lawson

Is it a good idea to pair navy boat shoes and navy/white seersucker pants? Will navy/white seersucker pants go with all solid pastel shirts? What about horizontally striped polo shirts? Crease or no crease (I generally like creases in pants)?


----------



## Sartre

Lawson said:


> Is it a good idea to pair navy boat shoes and navy/white seersucker pants?


If you must buy navy boat shoes, yes. But I don't care for boat shoes in colors other than brown.



Lawson said:


> Will navy/white seersucker pants go with all solid pastel shirts?


Yes they go great with pink, white, yellow, or blue OCBD shirts.



Lawson said:


> What about horizontally striped polo shirts? Crease or no crease (I generally like creases in pants)?


Would not wear horizontal stripes with seersucker unless you're the Duke of Windsor.



Lawson said:


> Crease or no crease (I generally like creases in pants)?


Most seersucker trousers will come with a crease. You can either wash and dry the pants yourself, which results in a less creased, informal look; or you can press them or send them to the dry cleaner, which results in a more heavily creased, sharper/more formal look. Depends on what you're going for. (I prefer creases.)

Tjs


----------



## Patrick06790

Green3 said:


> What do people think of this jacket? Only two button, but I am getting tempted.
> 
> Not sure if this is the right thread. Opinions on both issues welcomed.


Looks nice. Good price. Also looks darted, but so what. Side vents, too. Go for it.


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> Will navy/white seersucker pants go with all solid pastel shirts?


I wouldn't go with light blue (such as a blue OCBD), only because blue/white seersucker tends to look like light blue from a distance.



> What about horizontally striped polo shirts?


Probably not, unless it was a thick block stripe. Think 3" or more.



> Crease or no crease (I generally like creases in pants)?


Could go either way. Polo and uncreased -- very casual. Polo and creased -- nicer casual. Jacket and tie and uncreased -- casual dressy. Jacket and tie and creased -- dressy (relatively). Just depends on what you're going for.


----------



## Lawson

Sartre said:


> If you must buy navy boat shoes, yes. But I don't care for boat shoes in colors other than brown.


My winter shoes were brown, and my work shoes are burgundy. I wanted a change for warm weather casual clothes.



wnh said:


> I wouldn't go with light blue (such as a blue OCBD), only because blue/white seersucker tends to look like light blue from a distance.


I just tried them on with a pale blue polo shirt, and they looked terrific. The navy is dark enough that the pants look almost gray from a distance rather than pale blue.


----------



## Green3

Patrick06790 said:


> Looks nice. Good price. Also looks darted, but so what. Side vents, too. Go for it.


Thanks Patrick. I am considering it strongly.


----------



## paper clip

Lawson said:


> My winter shoes were brown, and my work shoes are burgundy. I wanted a change for warm weather casual clothes..


I like navy blue boat shoes. Something I would buy on sale ($50 or less), though, not full price. I saw some nice Sebagos at DSW this winter, but they did not have my size.


----------



## Joe Beamish

*BB "mini" stripe ties*

To what does the "mini" refer, as in the Brooks Brothers "mini" stripe ties?

To the length of the tie? The size of the stripe? Or what?

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...7&Parent_Id=210&default_color=Black-burgundy#


----------



## Tucker

Joe Beamish said:


> To what does the "mini" refer, as in the Brooks Brothers "mini" stripe ties?


Width of the stripes. Mini #1 on left, regular #1 on right...


----------



## babycatcher

*Might this cut it as Trad?*

I have some trepidation about asking about a leather jacket---as I was not sure whether any leather coat could be considered trad. However, searching the posts, it seems like the military styles, like the A-2, seem to get a pass, which was a relief, as I have a weakness for them, especially the ones from Aero.

So, can this be trad? The case for Trad may be somewhat helped by the fact that is a replica of the jackets worn by the open cockpit aviators of the 1920's, and the material is a very robust horsehide (from horses that die due to natural causes, per US law, for those of you concerned about these sorts of things)


----------



## paper clip

That coat seems a bit much to me. Without the belt it looks sort of like a navy pea-coat....

I liken it to the safari stuff - perhaps too much on the side of costume.

The A-2 is a much plainer coat.


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Hogan's Heros*

My understanding of what constitutes "trad" is entirely subjective, but I would say that this jacket, when it walks into a room, says "Hi! Do you see me? Do you? AHEM. I said, Do You See Me Here? Aren't I something AMAZING and SPECIAL? And worth remarking on like a giant fedora? Huh?" -- a bit too much for whatever we mean when we say, "trad".

That's not to say that it's not beautiful, though rather functionless, out of its apparent original context.


----------



## Naval Gent

*Raiders of the Lost Ark*

As in the bad guys. "I vill get you, Jones...." (I think the sellers probably already thought of that, and counterstruck with the big American flag in the background)

Scott


----------



## mcarthur

^ I would pass on this merchandise


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Alden 986's*

Do 986's have any characteristic tendencies in fit? -- e.g., Do they tend to run wide or narrow? Thanks.


----------



## mhc

What do you guys think about wearing a tan poplin suit with burgundy Weejuns and no socks?


----------



## Orsini

mhc said:


> What do you guys think about wearing a tan poplin suit with burgundy Weejuns and no socks?


Only with a bowtie and only if it is for an inerview...


----------



## playdohh22

Does the jacket fit me well ?


----------



## Green3

Looks maybe a little roomy PD, but the camera work is not helping.


----------



## AldenPyle

mhc said:


> What do you guys think about wearing a tan poplin suit with burgundy Weejuns and no socks?


 Its ok if you want people to think (or, in my case, know) that you are the kind of guy that likes to get drunk in the daytime.


----------



## babycatcher

*Alden Lasts*

Hi all:

I apologize for another Alden sizing thread, but I did search the prior posts and no joy.

My situation is this: the Barrie last fits me almost as if it were custom-made for my foot. On the other hand, the Aberdeen is pretty uncomfortable for me, as I have a wide fore foot and it is tight at the widest part of the shoe and in the toe box.

I am considering the 974 and 9741, and a few other shoes.

So, for those of you with extensive Alden collections, and understanding this is not exact:

Could you please give me an idea of the subtle differences between the Barrie last and the:

Tremont
Hampton &
Grant ?

The best I could do searching on this is that Tom from Leather Soul says that Tremont is similar to Barrie, but the folks at the Alden Shop in SF say it is a good deal narrower.

Knowing that for me, the Barrie is perfection and thee Aberdeen= some pain, do I have any hope in these lasts?

I know trying on is best, but it is easier said than done, and I would like to avoid a lot of shipping back and forth.

Thanks in advance for the sage advice.


----------



## Joe Tradly

AldenPyle said:


> Its ok if you want people to think (or, in my case, know) that you are the kind of guy that likes to get drunk in the daytime.


Great, great post, AP.

I'm wearing my khaki suit and weejuns today (for the first time). I think after lunch, I'll take my socks off in honor of you.

JB


----------



## mhc

AldenPyle said:


> Its ok if you want people to think (or, in my case, know) that you are the kind of guy that likes to get drunk in the daytime.


Perfect


----------



## Roast

What's "TNSIL"?


----------



## Reddington

Roast said:


> What's "TNSIL"?


*T*raditional *N*atural *S*houlder *I*vy *L*eague


----------



## mcarthur

Roast said:


> What's "TNSIL"?


Welcome to the forum


----------



## playdohh22

What is the difference between "shell" and "cordovans" shoes versus one thats not ? Better yet, can someone elaborate to me on shoes. My knowledge on them is very low. Oh and I really like all the shoes mcarthur wears, are they all shells ?


----------



## StickPig

I asked similar questions a few months ago when I first joined the board.

Perhaps most of your questions are answered here.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=79695&highlight=cordovan+calf


----------



## ksinc

playdohh22 said:


> What is the difference between "shell" and "cordovans" shoes versus one thats not ? Better yet, can someone elaborate to me on shoes. My knowledge on them is very low. Oh and I really like all the shoes mcarthur wears, are they all shells ?


Ben Silver has this Boyer description of Shell Cordovan that is pretty good IMHO.

Indeed. If a picture of Mac in footwear other than shell cordovan or suede exists, I hope the 'keepers of the legend' will do the 'right thing' and protect us from such a heresy!


----------



## mcarthur

ksinc said:


> Ben Silver has this Boyer description of Shell Cordovan that is pretty good IMHO.
> 
> Indeed. If a picture of Mac in footwear other than shell cordovan or suede exists, I hope the 'keepers of the legend' will do the 'right thing' and protect us from such a heresy!


How about white bucks?


----------



## Northeastern

mcarthur said:


> How about white bucks?


If there were a way to combine White Bucks and Shell Cordovan, you Uncle would be the one to find it.


----------



## Zot!

*Suit tie matching question*

I just picked up a nice 2-button Southwick suit from the local thrift store. It's a blue-plaid, with a very thin thread of a kind of turquoise running through the pattern every once and a while. It's a lot like the color in the link below, only a bit darker:

I usually don't have much trouble matching coats, shirts & ties, but nothing I can think of seems to look right with this. Maybe that's why you don't see this color much anymore. Any suggestions?

Here's another that seems to describe mine exactly (other than it's from BB):


----------



## mcarthur

Northeastern said:


> If there were a way to combine White Bucks and Shell Cordovan, you Uncle would be the one to find it.


I was unable to get a special order. Maybe someday in the future


----------



## Northeastern

Zot! said:


> I just picked up a nice 2-button Southwick suit from the local thrift store. It's a blue-plaid, with a very thin thread of a kind of turquoise running through the pattern every once and a while. It's a lot like the color in the link below, only a bit darker:
> 
> I usually don't have much trouble matching coats, shirts & ties, but nothing I can think of seems to look right with this. Maybe that's why you don't see this color much anymore. Any suggestions?
> 
> Here's another that seems to describe mine exactly (other than it's from BB):


I'd go with a white shirt and maroon tie. The tie should be simple, think a classic rep tie. The suit provides enough texture and pattern without the tie needing to.


----------



## wnh

Zot! said:


> I just picked up a nice 2-button Southwick suit from the local thrift store. It's a blue-plaid, with a very thin thread of a kind of turquoise running through the pattern every once and a while. It's a lot like the color in the link below, only a bit darker:
> 
> I usually don't have much trouble matching coats, shirts & ties, but nothing I can think of seems to look right with this. Maybe that's why you don't see this color much anymore. Any suggestions?
> 
> Here's another that seems to describe mine exactly (other than it's from BB):


White or light blue shirt, navy or burgundy tie.


----------



## randomdude

I'm looking to purchase some Bills M2's from STP and I'm a little confused by all the offerings:



Chamois cloth? Cotton twill? Poplin? If I want basic Bills M2's what am I looking for?


----------



## cdcro

randomdude said:


> I'm looking to purchase some Bills M2's from STP and I'm a little confused by all the offerings:
> 
> Chamois cloth? Cotton twill? Poplin? If I want basic Bills M2's what am I looking for?


this is what you want


----------



## randomdude

On the Bills, is Taupe the basic khaki color that I want?


----------



## Naval Gent

I don't think any of those are the "standard" khaki color. Taupe is a little darker, I think. Natural is very light. I have some 'Wheat" ones, and they are a little yellow-y. OK for warm weather, but they stayed in the closet all winter.

Khaki or British Kaki are the regular colors.

Scott


----------



## babycatcher

After you try the 8.5 oz regular khaki, I heartily recommend the driving twills. They are the most comfortable trousers I have ever owned. The Bullard field pant is great too, especially in the winter.

BC


----------



## Joe Tradly

Here's a question: 

I got my first pair of longwings this winter, chocolate brown, double sole, etc. from Press. 

These strike me as a fall/winter shoe. Right? I can't see wearing these shoes with a khaki suit. 

Am I off base here?

JB


----------



## Green3

Joe Tradly said:


> Here's a question:
> 
> I got my first pair of longwings this winter, chocolate brown, double sole, etc. from Press.
> 
> These strike me as a fall/winter shoe. Right? I can't see wearing these shoes with a khaki suit.
> 
> Am I off base here?
> 
> JB


I think a khaki suit with brown longwings would look great.


----------



## mcarthur

Joe Tradly said:


> Here's a question:
> 
> I got my first pair of longwings this winter, chocolate brown, double sole, etc. from Press.
> 
> These strike me as a fall/winter shoe. Right? I can't see wearing these shoes with a khaki suit.
> 
> Am I off base here?
> 
> JB


You could wear them in the early part of spring but they should not be worn in the later part of spring or summer season. It is white bucks for the summer


----------



## Sartre

mcarthur said:


> You could wear them in the early part of spring but they should not be worn in the later part of spring or summer season. It is white bucks for the summer


Agreed. I myself just picked up a pair of Alden plain toe bluchers in cigar shell, but I bought them more for the cool weather. (Figured I had to snap them up given the availability of cigar shell.)


----------



## mcarthur

Sartre said:


> Agreed. I myself just picked up a pair of Alden plain toe bluchers in cigar shell, but I bought them more for the cool weather. (Figured I had to snap them up given the availability of cigar shell.)


A very good acquisition! The exotic colors of shell will be more difficult and more costly in the future. I wear my shell all year


----------



## Naval Gent

Joe Tradly said:


> Here's a question:
> 
> I got my first pair of longwings this winter, chocolate brown, double sole, etc. from Press.
> 
> These strike me as a fall/winter shoe. Right? I can't see wearing these shoes with a khaki suit.
> 
> Am I off base here?
> 
> JB


Maybe a little. I think they would be OK. To me white bucks are just a bit "too much" for business. Loafers strike me as the perfect match for a poplin suit at work, but brown-ish PTBs or some sort of brown-ish brogue would work as well I think. (Must disclose I don't even own wingtips, so I'm no authority)

My opinion, usual disclaimers, yada, yada....

Scott


----------



## Joe Tradly

Naval Gent said:


> Maybe a little. I think they would be OK. To me white bucks are just a bit "too much" for business. Loafers strike me as the perfect match for a poplin suit at work, but brown-ish PTBs or some sort of brown-ish brogue would work as well I think. (Must disclose I don't even own wingtips, so I'm no authority)
> 
> My opinion, usual disclaimers, yada, yada....
> 
> Scott


Scott, thanks for your insight. The question, though, isn't what to wear with a khaki suit. I've got that covered. I just think double-soled gunboats look too clunky for a khaki suit and seem to me to be a fall/winter shoe. Mixed opinion out there, it seems.

JB


----------



## Duck

Joe,

I agree with you. A single soled shoe works well with Poplin. A double soled would work well with something that appears to be thick, wool, tweed. Gunboats feel like cold weather.


----------



## Northeastern

Duck said:


> Joe,
> 
> I agree with you. A single soled shoe works well with Poplin. A double soled would work well with something that appears to be thick, wool, tweed. Gunboats feel like cold weather.


I should probably go home and change my shoes then...


----------



## Duck

Northeastern said:


> I should probably go home and change my shoes then...


Nah,

If you like them, wear them. Hell, what do I know.


----------



## Northeastern

I'm wearing my gunboats today with very lightweight chinos in a stone color. I considered loafers this morning but went with the bigger shoes anyway. All that aside, I have tiny feet (8D) so usually shoes don't seem to look as big on me. If I were a larger size, I think my MacNeil's might look a bit off. Since the length of my foot is so short, I feel I can get away with this look.

You be the judge. Here's a terrible photo (thanks a lot MacBook).


----------



## Duck

I love the shoe but feel that they would look better with a more formal suit. A pair of cordovan tassels or bucks would work with the color better, maybe even a darker poplin. The shoes seem so formal. But again, what do I know?


----------



## paper clip

Two issues here - 

1. Color: I think DARK brown is fall/winter. 
Light tan - like the classic florsheim gunboat color - spring, but probably not summer - . 
#8 = early spring - a cool day with darker pants - but not summer. 

2. Shoe type: Gunboats - IMO, once it gets above 70, they just look too big and hot.

I don't expect to wear my alden #8 longwings much more until October.

My plain toe bluchers have that faded #8 to brown color now, so I will wear them a bit more into spring, but probably not much in the summer. That shoe does not look as heavy as the longwing, even though it has the double sole.


----------



## Naval Gent

Joe Tradly said:


> Scott, thanks for your insight. The question, though, isn't what to wear with a khaki suit. I've got that covered. I just think double-soled gunboats look too clunky for a khaki suit and seem to me to be a fall/winter shoe. Mixed opinion out there, it seems.
> 
> JB


I definitely see your point, but I wear my PTBs the year round. Wore mine yesterday with a pair of dark green gabs. Having a nice deep cuff helps balance things a bit. Something about a khaki suit says "smart but earthy" to me, and so do the gunboats. In the UK brogues are considered a "country" shoe, and the khaki suit would probably fall in the same category.

But maybe my point of view is colored by all my years wearing Navy uniform khakis and blucher shoes. Regardless - I think one is not erring either way.

Scott


----------



## eagle2250

Northeastern said:


> I'm wearing my gunboats today with very lightweight chinos in a stone color. I considered loafers this morning but went with the bigger shoes anyway. All that aside, I have tiny feet (8D) so usually shoes don't seem to look as big on me. If I were a larger size, I think my MacNeil's might look a bit off. Since the length of my foot is so short, I feel I can get away with this look.
> 
> You be the judge. Here's a terrible photo (thanks a lot MacBook).


I have a pair of AE MacNeils, in chili calf, that I wear during the warmer months. Though, as suggested by paper clip, a dark brown or #8 "gunboat" during the hotest days of summer, might be a bit off-balance! I've also seen a pair of chestnut colored gunboats that I think could work well with summer attire. My recommendation to you Northeastern, were I in your shoes (and it appears that indeed, I may be!) is to go ahead and wear those MacNeils!


----------



## Joe Beamish

What about Alden 986's (color 8)? Are they OK for summer? Or will they, like the longwings, appear to big and hot? Thanks, JB



paper clip said:


> Two issues here -
> 
> 1. Color: I think DARK brown is fall/winter.
> Light tan - like the classic florsheim gunboat color - spring, but probably not summer - .
> #8 = early spring - a cool day with darker pants - but not summer.
> 
> 2. Shoe type: Gunboats - IMO, once it gets above 70, they just look too big and hot.
> 
> I don't expect to wear my alden #8 longwings much more until October.
> 
> My plain toe bluchers have that faded #8 to brown color now, so I will wear them a bit more into spring, but probably not much in the summer. That shoe does not look as heavy as the longwing, even though it has the double sole.


----------



## paper clip

Joe Beamish said:


> What about Alden 986's (color 8)? Are they OK for summer? Or will they, like the longwings, appear to big and hot? Thanks, JB


I will wear my #8 LHS (986) in summer, esp. for use with tie and blazer. The style of the shoe makes it more summery than heavy longwings - however, I keep it with my darker khakis, rather than light (stone).

I wear tan loafers, tan/dirty buc saddles, quoddy cinnamon (as opposed to chromexcel) canoe mocs with my lightest color pants.

I also have a burgundy colored Alden Cape Cod kiltie/tassel loafers that I wear during summer - the casualness of the style and lightness of the shoe (non-welted, single thin sole) lend it to mainly spring/summer use for me.


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Wear it? Or donate it?*

I bought this BB Golden Fleece jacket on eBay for 30 bucks. The seller considers it a highly versatile "blazer", but I think it's an orphaned suit jacket. He thinks it's a blazer (or at least a sport jacket) because there are only 2 buttons on the sleeves, and the weave contains white (it's not just solid grey).

Of course it's no "blazer". But is it usable? Or just silly?


https://www.iaidomiami.com/yoyo/DSC02408.JPG


----------



## Patrick06790

^ I asked for a photo in the other thread and here it is.

That's a suit jacket. Maybe if you put lighter-colored buttons on it you could wear it with jeans. Or gave it a shoulder pad-ectomy so it was very loose and floppy.

But by the time you did all that I suspect you'd still be looking at a suit jacket, and a large tab from the alterations tailor.

I would chalk it up to experience and remember the Immutable Laws of eBay ( #17):

*Many Sellers Would Not Know a Blazer If It Bit Them On the Fanny*


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ I feel the same way about the jacket. I'm still learning. I placed a bid and then regretted it after further consideration. Then I thought, "Well heck -- SOMEBODY will come along and outbid me, and that will be that."

But no. I was the stupidest person to view the jacket. I'll chalk it up to experience.


----------



## Duck

resell it


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Joe Tradly said:


> Here's a question:
> 
> I got my first pair of longwings this winter, chocolate brown, double sole, etc. from Press.
> 
> These strike me as a fall/winter shoe. Right? I can't see wearing these shoes with a khaki suit.
> 
> Am I off base here?
> 
> JB


I am a bit late, but I would second or third the year round wearability of gunboats. Althought they may have originally been considered country or bad weather shoes, I think they are fine year round from a trad standpoint. The worst people will think is that you joined the Thom Browne bandwagon, but he did not invent the look.


----------



## mcarthur

Naval Gent said:


> Maybe a little. I think they would be OK. To me white bucks are just a bit "too much" for business. Loafers strike me as the perfect match for a poplin suit at work, but brown-ish PTBs or some sort of brown-ish brogue would work as well I think. (Must disclose I don't even own wingtips, so I'm no authority)
> 
> My opinion, usual disclaimers, yada, yada....
> 
> Scott


You need to get a pair of wingtips in the future. My assumption was that the attire was for social activities and not business. If it is for business, I agree the NG comments


----------



## wnh

Seems like this could be its own thread, but I'll ask here anyway.

I'm in the market for a pair of three-season tan wool trousers. Two questions: (1) Are three-season items for spring-summer-fall or fall-winter-spring, or does it vary? (2) Less a question than a request -- point me in the direction of a good pair of tan wool trousers that will fit the bill. Really what I'm looking for here is a nicer alternative to khakis to be worn with a blazer, something that'll be wearable for as much of the year as possible. I live in the Midwest, so we get all four seasons (sometimes in four consecutive days), if that's a deciding factor.


----------



## Northeastern

wnh said:


> Seems like this could be its own thread, but I'll ask here anyway.
> 
> I'm in the market for a pair of three-season tan wool trousers. Two questions: (1) Are three-season items for spring-summer-fall or fall-winter-spring, or does it vary? (2) Less a question than a request -- point me in the direction of a good pair of tan wool trousers that will fit the bill. Really what I'm looking for here is a nicer alternative to khakis to be worn with a blazer, something that'll be wearable for as much of the year as possible. I live in the Midwest, so we get all four seasons (sometimes in four consecutive days), if that's a deciding factor.


I've always assumed Fall, Winter, Spring. Here in New England it gets too hot for certain fabrics in the summer, but you can always tough it out in winter.


----------



## Patrick06790

wnh said:


> Seems like this could be its own thread, but I'll ask here anyway.
> 
> I'm in the market for a pair of three-season tan wool trousers. Two questions: (1) Are three-season items for spring-summer-fall or fall-winter-spring, or does it vary? (2) Less a question than a request -- point me in the direction of a good pair of tan wool trousers that will fit the bill. Really what I'm looking for here is a nicer alternative to khakis to be worn with a blazer, something that'll be wearable for as much of the year as possible. I live in the Midwest, so we get all four seasons (sometimes in four consecutive days), if that's a deciding factor.


1.

Same cut as chinos. Not especially warm - I'm still digging them out for use on these early spring days when it might hit the low 70s in the sunshine during the day but when I get out of work at midnight it's 40.

Drawbacks - no custom hemming, and if the cut doesn't work you'll want to pick up one of those "Wide Load" signs at the hardware store as a crucial accessory.

2.

I have a number of iterations of these pants, including tan. I think they are one of the great deals out there. These can be worn on all but the hottest days.

Plus custom hemming and long rise option.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Those LE Year Rounders look great. The sage color in particular has caught my eye.

Question: Does anyone choose "long rise"? I love that Cary Grant look (at least for suits) with the pants going around the natural waist. But I wonder what you all think about that option for these.


----------



## Patrick06790

^ For the double reverse pleated version, yes. I am 5' 9" but I am short-waisted and have a 29.5" inseam. A standard double reverse pleat makes my front look like a partially collapsed tent. Not so with the long rise.

Whether I should be wearing them at all is a question for the Minister of Dogma.


----------



## topbroker

Patrick06790 said:


> ^ I asked for a photo in the other thread and here it is.
> 
> That's a suit jacket. Maybe if you put lighter-colored buttons on it you could wear it with jeans. Or gave it a shoulder pad-ectomy so it was very loose and floppy.
> 
> But by the time you did all that I suspect you'd still be looking at a suit jacket, and a large tab from the alterations tailor.
> 
> I would chalk it up to experience and remember the Immutable Laws of eBay ( #17):
> 
> *Many Sellers Would Not Know a Blazer If It Bit Them On the Fanny*


Despite what I said in the WAYWT? thread, this is a hard one to convincingly "blazer-ize."


----------



## Joe Beamish

Yes. I took $30 and threw it away. But...lesson learned.


----------



## Untilted

yea. that shoulder is terrible, anyway.


----------



## Sartre

wnh said:


> Seems like this could be its own thread, but I'll ask here anyway.
> 
> I'm in the market for a pair of three-season tan wool trousers. Two questions: (1) Are three-season items for spring-summer-fall or fall-winter-spring, or does it vary? (2) Less a question than a request -- point me in the direction of a good pair of tan wool trousers that will fit the bill. Really what I'm looking for here is a nicer alternative to khakis to be worn with a blazer, something that'll be wearable for as much of the year as possible. I live in the Midwest, so we get all four seasons (sometimes in four consecutive days), if that's a deciding factor.


(1) Three-season is definitely fall-winter-spring. (2) I have a half dozen pairs of the JB Britches worsted wool trousers from Nordstrom and they are the perfect weight (10 oz., accdg to their website). These are pleated but I am certain that Brooks and/or Press would have a flat-front version of same. Best might be to go into the store and check em out in person; hard to tell the actual weight/texture of the fabric from the pictures/descriptions online.

Tom


----------



## Green3

wnh said:


> Seems like this could be its own thread, but I'll ask here anyway.
> 
> I'm in the market for a pair of three-season tan wool trousers. Two questions: (1) Are three-season items for spring-summer-fall or fall-winter-spring, or does it vary? (2) Less a question than a request -- point me in the direction of a good pair of tan wool trousers that will fit the bill. Really what I'm looking for here is a nicer alternative to khakis to be worn with a blazer, something that'll be wearable for as much of the year as possible. I live in the Midwest, so we get all four seasons (sometimes in four consecutive days), if that's a deciding factor.


These LE gabardine look pretty nice, in the dark tan. There are some lighter coloured ones at JAB.


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Waist size discrepancy*

I want to order some Bills online, but can't decide on the waist size.

By the tape measure, my waist is bigger (34") than the stated size (32") of most pants I own and wear comfortably. Does anyone else have the same experience?

What waist size should I order? Thank you


----------



## eagle2250

^Bills are wonderfully roomy, everywhere but in the waistband! When I was buying Bills, I found it necessary to go one size up from the size I wore for most of my other pants.


----------



## hbs midwest

*Size comparison: BB vs JPress*

I know how I fit into a garden-variety BB 44S 3/2 sack--pretty close to perfect; can someone advise how J Press compares (fuller, leaner, etc) to the BB fit? I am looking at a charcoal plainweave worsted sack in the Press website Sale section...basic interview suit....I am not in a position to drop the bucks I would like to on BB Select or a similar (and more expensive) program.

Thanks for your help and input!

hbs

PS... I have 2 Press jackets from an earlier period, but in another, smaller size; can't really make a comparison based on them.


----------



## Sartre

^ hbs, I wish I had something to contribute. As a general rule, my experience is that Press may be boxier and roomier in its sport jackets and suit coats. But I find so much inconsistency in fit from suit to suit, jacket to jacket, model to model, at both of these establishments -- and, moreover, it all can change from year-to-year and even season to season.* Which is why I sometimes despair of online shopping and do my best only to buy suitings in the store; a luxury, I'll admit, living in a major metro area on the east coast.

* Editor's note: It may also be that the subject's weight changes from season to season, introducing another complication....


----------



## Untilted

hbs midwest said:


> I know how I fit into a garden-variety BB 44S 3/2 sack--pretty close to perfect; can someone advise how J Press compares (fuller, leaner, etc) to the BB fit? I am looking at a charcoal plainweave worsted sack in the Press website Sale section...basic interview suit....I am not in a position to drop the bucks I would like to on BB Select or a similar (and more expensive) program.
> 
> Thanks for your help and input!
> 
> hbs
> 
> PS... I have 2 Press jackets from an earlier period, but in another, smaller size; can't really make a comparison based on them.


Maybe there's some difference in fit, but it's not gonna be substantial enough that you have to go for a different size at Press.

if you are a 44S at brooks, you are either a 44 S at JPress or nothing at JPress will fit you well.

I'm a 36 Short at both places.


----------



## hbs midwest

Thanks, Tilt & Sartre...

Suspicion confirmed.

I've pulled the trigger on the Press charcoal worsted sack suit in question.

I greatly appreciate your input.

Enjoy the weekend, gentlemen!:icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## Untilted

hbs midwest said:


> Thanks, Tilt & Sartre...
> 
> Suspicion confirmed.
> 
> I've pulled the trigger on the Press charcoal worsted sack suit in question.
> 
> I greatly appreciate your input.
> 
> Enjoy the weekend, gentlemen!:icon_smile:
> 
> hbs


great acquisition. beware that Jpress suit trousers are cut slim though. it;s not really a new thing, they have been cutting their trousers slim (not full like bills) for decades.


----------



## hbs midwest

Untilted said:


> great acquisition. beware that Jpress suit trousers are cut slim though. it;s not really a new thing, they have been cutting their trousers slim (not full like bills) for decades.


How nice--for those of us who first started doing this thing (in jr high school) in the late 50s, non-balloon trouser legs is music to the ear.

Now *really* looking forward to delivery--thanks for the heads-up!:icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Tedious question about jacket length measurement: Collar?*

I've searched the threads for this with no luck.

Why do ebay sellers often specify jacket length as measured down the back "from below the collar" to the bottom of the jacket?

That is, why not include the collar in your measurement? Doesn't it "count"?

Or shouldn't it count? Maybe the more accurate measurement does NOT include the collar?

I know: This question is idiotic. It's obsessive. But that's why I know you guys won't mind.


----------



## Patrick06790

Joe Beamish said:


> I've searched the threads for this with no luck.
> 
> Why do ebay sellers often specify jacket length as measured down the back "from below the collar" to the bottom of the jacket?
> 
> That is, why not include the collar in your measurement? Doesn't it "count"?
> 
> Or shouldn't it count? Maybe the more accurate measurement does NOT include the collar?
> 
> I know: This question is idiotic. It's obsessive. But that's why I know you guys won't mind.


Just so you know what you're bidding on. If a jacket's listed as being 32" long, but doesn't specify 32" from where, then I might end up with something that won't work.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Patrick06790 said:


> Just so you know what you're bidding on. If a jacket's listed as being 32" long, but doesn't specify 32" from where, then I might end up with something that won't work.


Unassailably true. You're right.

But I wonder...Are 2 inches of collar length "shorter" than the same amount of length down the back? (I'm considering that the collar fabric sits on the back of the wearer's sloping neck, and is therefore "taken up" somewhat, while the rest of the length of the jacket rides straight down his back.)


----------



## AldenPyle

My measurement question has to do with pre-hemmed pants. My outseam is almost always the same on every pair of pants to the 1/4". But depending on the rise, the inseam is all over the place. But stores always measure pants by inseam.


----------



## Joe Beamish

AldenPyle said:


> My measurement question has to do with pre-hemmed pants. My outseam is almost always the same on every pair of pants to the 1/4". But depending on the rise, the inseam is all over the place. But stores always measure pants by inseam.


Interesting. Let's say (for my selfish reasons) that you happened to be ordering M2 Bills online for the first time. You've never worn any Bills. Given this question of variance of rise, etc. -- what d'ya do?


----------



## wnh

AldenPyle said:


> My measurement question has to do with pre-hemmed pants. My outseam is almost always the same on every pair of pants to the 1/4". But depending on the rise, the inseam is all over the place. But stores always measure pants by inseam.


I don't understand. Wouldn't a higher rise mean a longer outseam as well? Or do you wear your pants at the same height on your waist, regardless of the rise? I guess if you keep the crotch of the pants at the same place the inseam would be the same regardless of rise.


----------



## Patrick06790

Joe Beamish said:


> Unassailably true. You're right.
> 
> But I wonder...Are 2 inches of collar length "shorter" than the same amount of length down the back? (I'm considering that the collar fabric sits on the back of the wearer's sloping neck, and is therefore "taken up" somewhat, while the rest of the length of the jacket rides straight down his back.)


This is very deep. I don't have an answer.

But I will ask a seller to measure from the bottom of the collar, which to me gives the best idea of whether the jacket will work.

Such is life at 5' 9"


----------



## Joe Beamish

Patrick06790 said:


> This is very deep. I don't have an answer.
> 
> But I will ask a seller to measure from the bottom of the collar, which to me gives the best idea of whether the jacket will work.
> 
> Such is life at 5' 9"


Yeah. It's too deep for me. But you have in effect answered my question.

Thanks


----------



## AldenPyle

wnh said:


> I don't understand. Wouldn't a higher rise mean a longer outseam as well? Or do you wear your pants at the same height on your waist, regardless of the rise? I guess if you keep the crotch of the pants at the same place the inseam would be the same regardless of rise.


I guess I don't wear any pants so tight that the rise is a binding constraint. For instance, I would wear Bills M1 & M2 at the same place on the waist, though the rise is about an 1" different.


----------



## Sartre

AldenPyle said:


> My measurement question has to do with pre-hemmed pants. My outseam is almost always the same on every pair of pants to the 1/4". But depending on the rise, the inseam is all over the place. But stores always measure pants by inseam.


Completely understand your quandary. Inseam is a much less reliable measure than outseam, for the reasons you suggest.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Is it me? Or is nearly every tailor in NYC (if not the world) addicted to long sleeves on sportcoats, blazers and suit jackets? 

I like showing sleeve like the rest of y'all.

One dude charged me $53 to shorten the sleeves (not quite enough, not quite what I thought we agreed on) on a vintage madras jacket. At that charge, let's get 'em right, I say. But I'm the one in learning mode here. 

It's going slowish.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> Is it me? Or is nearly every tailor in NYC (if not the world) addicted to long sleeves on sportcoats, blazers and suit jackets?
> 
> I like showing sleeve like the rest of y'all.
> 
> One dude charged me $53 to shorten the sleeves (not quite enough, not quite what I thought we agreed on) on a vintage madras jacket. At that charge, let's get 'em right, I say. But I'm the one in learning mode here.
> 
> It's going slowish.


$53? Did he shorten them from the top?


----------



## Joe Beamish

AldenPyle said:


> $53? Did he shorten them from the top?


No, it sure doesn't appear so. Although, there is lining in the sleeves. And he had to move the buttons, of course.

You mean it's not supposed to cost more than 2/3 of what I paid for the jacket?


----------



## Untilted

53 is way too much for shortening sleeves. maybe 20 bucks. im talking about decent tailors too. change your tailor asap.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Untilted said:


> 53 is way too much for shortening sleeves. maybe 20 bucks. im talking about decent tailors too. change your tailor asap.


Will do. Unfortunately I've got 3 pair of old pants in there, which he's cuffing. (It's unbelievable how lengthy I had been wearing them.) He's charging $25 apiece to cuff two of the pair, and $35 to cuff the other (because he has to add something).

The tailoring is gonna kill me


----------



## Joe Beamish

*Shirt shrinkage*

My recently purchased BB shirts are all 16.5/32 OCBD's, slim fit, 100% cotton. They fit very well -- but I'm wondering how much they will shrink "over time". (I only wash them in cold, and then hang dry. I've only washed them twice.)

I'm tempted to buy a 17/33 in the same model, and wash the heck out of it in hot water, and then dry it several times in a hot dryer. I wonder if it would shrink to fit....Sounds like a good experiment, but I'd hate to spend the money just to "see that happens". Any guesses?


----------



## Sartre

Joe Beamish said:


> My recently purchased BB shirts are all 16.5/32 OCBD's, slim fit, 100% cotton. They fit very well -- but I'm wondering how much they will shrink "over time". (I only wash them in cold, and then hang dry. I've only washed them twice.)
> 
> I'm tempted to buy a 17/33 in the same model, and wash the heck out of it in hot water, and then dry it several times in a hot dryer. I wonder if it would shrink to fit....Sounds like a good experiment, but I'd hate to spend the money just to "see that happens". Any guesses?


Well, if you are washing them in cold water and hanging them dry, they will not shrink at all! But I guess you knew that. :icon_smile:

I send my Brooks shirts to the cleaner's, where they take a pretty good beating -- my understanding is that they are washed in hot water (not sure how they are dried, but I am certain it is not gently), and then of course the starch and the hot press. I find that there is some shrinkage, but only over a period of years -- say, a quarter inch in both sleeve and neck over the period of two years. Half inch if I am really wearing them constantly.

I believe it's the dryer that causes the shrinkage; wash them in warm or cold, and dry them in low or medium. Make sure not to over-dry. And you should be fine.

Tjs


----------



## eagle2250

^ I would echo Sartre's experience with the BB Original "must be ironed" OCBDs. The only BB shirts I have experienced any significant shrinkage with were some '346' outlet models, that did seem to shrink perhaps 1/2" or more in the collar and sleeve length, over the course of a year.


----------



## Joe Beamish

As always, thank you, gentlemen.

JB


----------



## PorterSq

*"Performance" Shirts*

What are the Lands End performance shirts? They look like standard OCBDs, but the word performance makes me think they have some funky treatment or material added to the cloth beyond standard cotton. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Here's a link:


----------



## paper clip

Joe Beamish said:


> My recently purchased BB shirts are all 16.5/32 OCBD's, slim fit, 100% cotton. They fit very well -- but I'm wondering how much they will shrink "over time". (I only wash them in cold, and then hang dry. I've only washed them twice.)
> 
> I'm tempted to buy a 17/33 in the same model, and wash the heck out of it in hot water, and then dry it several times in a hot dryer. I wonder if it would shrink to fit....Sounds like a good experiment, but I'd hate to spend the money just to "see that happens". Any guesses?


I have BB slim fits as well.

I have not found much shrinkage in the sleeves. The white one I had shrunk in the neck so that I could not button the top button. I have since ordered 1 inch shorter in the sleeve and in white, a half-inch larger in the neck. Since that time, the shirts work out perfectly.

Also, even though the cleaners wash in hot, I find when they press out the sleeve, you gain some length anyway - the fibers are as srtaight and stretched out as they can possible be. When you home wash and hang dry, they soften up a bit and are as a result a bit shorter.


----------



## wnh

PorterSq said:


> What are the Lands End performance shirts? They look like standard OCBDs, but the word performance makes me think they have some funky treatment or material added to the cloth beyond standard cotton. Can someone point me in the right direction?
> 
> Here's a link:


Click the "More Info" tab, and this is what it says:



> Dribble a bit of marinara? Spill a bit of red wine? No worries. This shirt can take on just about anything you can dish out and still come out looking like new. Plus, it doesn't just shed spills. Wrinkle resistance makes ironing a thing of the past. So it will always look great right from the dryer. And like all our dress shirts, it's crafted with all the tailoring details you've come to expect. Machine wash. Imported.


----------



## Sartre

paper clip said:


> Also, even though the cleaners wash in hot, I find when they press out the sleeve, you gain some length anyway - the fibers are as srtaight and stretched out as they can possible be. When you home wash and hang dry, they soften up a bit and are as a result a bit shorter.


That's a good point.


----------



## msphotog

I'll add a third to the BB Non-Non-Iron. I have all my shirts laundered with light starch(please don't dis-own me!), and I've found that the BB originals do take up just a little after 3-5 launderings, but only in the necks! The Non-Irons don't shrink at all, and I still wear 17-1/2, 36 in those, but ordered 18-36 in the originals. Oddly, though, I haven't noticed any shrinkage in the sleeves.

Mark


----------



## Joe Beamish

Mark -- I detect a shade of shrinkage in the neck (after a couple washings in cold water followed by hang drying; no dryers). This leaves the neck fairly comfortable when buttoned, although I'd love to add between an eighth and a quarter of an inch. (I have read that "wonder buttons" are handy for that.) I have a big neck for my size and build.

But the sleeves remain unshrunk without a doubt. Overall I can't beat the fit of these shirts unless I go custom made, which I'm not even sure of. 

As long as they don't shrink any more.


----------



## Green3

Does this seem a little cheeky to anyone else?

In this listing, , 

the first picture they show is this:


the second picture, the actual pair, is this:



Why show a brand new pair as your primary picture if you are selling a second hand pair?


----------



## wnh

^ That seller frequently posts a stock photo along with a photo of the actual pair you're bidding on. Nothing wrong with the addition of the stock photo, as long as it's obvious which one is for sale. Maybe it's so you can see the potential in a pair of shoes.


----------



## Green3

wnh said:


> ^ That seller frequently posts a stock photo along with a photo of the actual pair you're bidding on. Nothing wrong with the addition of the stock photo, as long as it's obvious which one is for sale. Maybe it's so you can see the potential in a pair of shoes.


My main beef is that the stock photo is what you see first, and what comes up when you search. It should, in my opinion, be complementary, not primary.


----------



## wnh

Green3 said:


> My main beef is that the stock photo is what you see first, and what comes up when you search. It should, in my opinion, be complementary, not primary.


Fair enough, but it's quite clear which pair is actually up for auction. And unless you're constantly clicking on that particular seller's offerings, you're not wasting much time realizing that the shoes aren't what they originally appeared to be.


----------



## Reddington

I am in need of some summer sport coats and I found this one at Orvis. 


However, it appears to be a 2 button sack instead of a 3/2 sack (but it does have the patch pockets that I want.) How difficult would it be to add a third buttonhole? What would a job like this cost?

Or would I be better off continuing my hunt for a proper 3/2 sack summer sports coat? 

Cheers.


----------



## Untilted

eh, adding a third buttonhole is a bit silly. the lapels look clean right now, don't ruin the look. 2 button sack is a rarity anyway.


----------



## Joe Tradly

Agree 100%. The 2-button sack jacket is coveted. It's not the third button hole that's important, it's (for me) the lack of darts and the natural shoulder, both of which you have there. 

Get it!

JB


----------



## AldenPyle

I got a NOS Corbin Sack off the bay with a label that said Tailored in USA by American Craftsmen. Does anyone know if Corbin still makes sacks or still makes clothes in the US?


----------



## Green3

could these actually be shell?


----------



## wessex

^ I HIGHLY doubt it. Note the creases vs. a good shell cordovan pic in the shoe thread.


----------



## wnh

Green3 said:


> could these actually be shell?


Not with those creases. The seller is listing the main color as "cordovan", but just states that the material is "leather". They're gone now, anyway.


----------



## Green3

I thought they were black, and thus the cordovan reference threw me off.


----------



## wolfhound986

AldenPyle said:


> I got a NOS Corbin Sack off the bay with a label that said Tailored in USA by American Craftsmen. Does anyone know if Corbin still makes sacks or still makes clothes in the US?


https://www.corbintrousers.com/

STP has a lot of discounted Corbin, in case you need another fix:


----------



## playdohh22

Can someone help me identify if these are shell cordovans ?


----------



## paper clip

They sure look it to me. They have the same smooth leather, ripples on the vamp and luster that my 986s do. Of course, if these are ebay, you should have seller confirm the numbers on the inside of the shoe.


----------



## bd79cc

The less-than-optimal lighting in the picture makes it hard to say for sure whether or not they're shell - but they certainly look it. The shoes resemble the Alden 99162, the Japanese-spec LHS:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=73970&page=2


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I've noticed I see far more odd seersucker jackets and short and rarely see seersucker pants worn oddly.

I still plan on wearing mine (I'm thinking of perhaps a light yellow shirt and black weejuns), but is there any reason why this isn;t done more?


----------



## Joe Beamish

Is a blazer over a polo (a J. Press shirt with white stripes) okay?


----------



## eagle2250

^ Not sure if it is considered fashionably correct but, I wear a blazer over a knit polo, several times each summer...provides a bit of "sartorial" flexibility for the days activities.


----------



## Northeastern

Joe Beamish said:


> Is a blazer over a polo (a J. Press shirt with white stripes) okay?


If you think it looks good, yes its OK. I like it, especially for weekend functions or the late afternoon garden party...not that I've ever been to a later afternoon garden party, but someday...


----------



## Reddington

Joe Beamish said:


> Is a blazer over a polo (a J. Press shirt with white stripes) okay?


I second Northeastern. If you like it, why not. Throwing on a blazer is a quick and easy way to smarten up an otherwise casual outfit. 

Cheers.


----------



## Graft

Which last is the Allen Edmonds Harrison made on?

Thanks.


----------



## Joe Tradly

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I've noticed I see far more odd seersucker jackets and short and rarely see seersucker pants worn oddly.
> 
> I still plan on wearing mine (I'm thinking of perhaps a light yellow shirt and black weejuns), but is there any reason why this isn;t done more?


TBS: I wear odd seersucker trousers and a blue blazer about once a week starting this week.

JB


----------



## mcarthur

Joe Tradly said:


> TBS: I wear odd seersucker trousers and a blue blazer about once a week starting this week.
> 
> JB


your dress attire would go well with your tassel slip-on


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I loaned out a fairly new BB OCBD and had it returned crazy puckered after it was washed (I suspect hot) and run through a hot dryer.
Can it be salvaged and unpuckered?


----------



## Sartre

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I loaned out a fairly new BB OCBD and had it returned crazy puckered after it was washed (I suspect hot) and run through a hot dryer.
> Can it be salvaged and unpuckered?


I would have it laundered at the dry cleaner's and pressed with light starch.

TJS


----------



## AlanC

Did you try ironing it damp?


----------



## wessex

Graft said:


> Which last is the Allen Edmonds Harrison made on?


This thread indicates the 0 last https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=64989.


----------



## Graft

^^ Thanks, I've added that thread to my favorites.


----------



## Joe Beamish

The Press 3/2 sack blazer on sale on their website: Is this the one with the blackwatch lining? And does anyone here happen to own this blazer? Is it fairly light weight wool? Thanks.

https://www.jpressonline.com/blazers_navy_detail.php?ix=2


----------



## Reddington

Joe Beamish said:


> The Press 3/2 sack blazer on sale on their website: Is this the one with the blackwatch lining? And does anyone here happen to own this blazer? Is it fairly light weight wool? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.jpressonline.com/blazers_navy_detail.php?ix=2


I don't believe this model has the Blackwatch lining. The sack I purchased last year (with the Blackwatch lining) has two patch / flap pockets and one upper patch pocket.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Good to know, thanks. 

Are you fond of the Press jacket you bought last year? And will you be able to get some summer wear out of it?


----------



## randomdude

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Good to know, thanks.
> 
> Are you fond of the Press jacket you bought last year? And will you be able to get some summer wear out of it?


Yes, I bought the same jacket and it doesn't have Blackwatch lining. I think the more expensive model has it. And yes, I think it is light enough to wear in the summer.


----------



## Reddington

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ Good to know, thanks.
> 
> Are you fond of the Press jacket you bought last year? And will you be able to get some summer wear out of it?


Absolutely. I am very fond of the patch/flap pockets and the Blackwatch lining is the perfect finishing touch. The shoulders may be a bit too padded for some, but I don't find them terribly bad. However, if there is one thing I would change (and I probably will) it would be to replace the buttons. The sleeve buttons tend to be a bit noisy and it can be distracting when in business meetings. 

I will most certainly get a lot of summer wear out of it. Where I live, summer doesn't really arrive until late July / early August and it's over in September. So for me, it's a four-season jacket. 

Cheers.


----------



## Topsider

Reddington said:


> Absolutely. I am very fond of the patch/flap pockets and the Blackwatch lining is the perfect finishing touch. The shoulders may be a bit too padded for some, but I don't find them terribly bad. However, if there is one thing I would change (and I probably will) it would be to replace the buttons. The sleeve buttons tend to be a bit noisy and it can be distracting when in business meetings.


I have that 3-patch blazer with the Black Watch lining also, and agree with you about the buttons. I'm told, however, that these buttons are made by the Waterbury Button Co. in CT, and are somewhat expensive. They do rattle a bit, though. I've considered replacing them with monogrammed blazer buttons from Ben Silver.

I live in VA, and wear my blazer year-round. It's a pretty typical wool hopsack weave, so YMMV. If you live a bit further South, it may be too heavy for summer wear. Consider poplin.


----------



## Reddington

KentW said:


> I have that 3-patch blazer with the Black Watch lining also, and agree with you about the buttons. I'm told, however, that these buttons are made by the Waterbury Button Co. in CT, and are somewhat expensive. They do rattle a bit, though. I've considered replacing them with monogrammed blazer buttons from Ben Silver.


Yes, they are. On the reverse they're marked Waterbury. So if I do replace mine, I'll go with monogrammed buttons from BS or family crest buttons from Benson & Clegg. Another option would be to have the Waterbury buttons spaced apart a bit so they don't rattle.

Cheers.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Thanks for the info, gents. I love navy blazers, absolutely love 'em. They are my favorite and most useful wardrobe item, bar none -- although one day I will bag a pair of 986's and I can hardly wait.

I have an excellent, perfect-fitting BB "346" blazer with 3 patch pockets that I picked up from eBay. But it's a poly/wool blend, and not breath-able for summer. Nor is it "dressy".

So thanks


----------



## randomdude

Trad in danger!



To the tradmobile! (Jeep Wagoneer)


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Is there anything lose to a definitive answer as to whether or not you can take a coat in on the chest?

I have a jacket that's perfect in all areas (esp shoulders) but it needs to be taken in a bit in the chest.


----------



## tsweetland

*A little advice....*

I have a baptism to attend on Sunday (I am the godfather). I am planning on wearing khakis, coat and tie. The weather has been great here and I would like to wear my new Press unconstructed cotton jacket (seen on the last page of the catalog). Will this look ok with an OCBD and tie? I'm not worried about being too informal (believe me, I will probably be the only one there with a tie on). Should I just wear my normal 3/2 sack blazer instead?


----------



## mcarthur

tsweetland said:


> I have a baptism to attend on Sunday (I am the godfather). I am planning on wearing khakis, coat and tie. The weather has been great here and I would like to wear my new Press unconstructed cotton jacket (seen on the last page of the catalog). Will this look ok with an OCBD and tie? I'm not worried about being too informal (believe me, I will probably be the only one there with a tie on). Should I just wear my normal 3/2 sack blazer instead?


you are very fortunate to being honored as the godfather. I would wear the sack blazer


----------



## Lawson

I am debating whether to combine a navy blazer, pale blue shirt, and a mostly light mint green regimental tie. This outfit adheres to the "two darks and one light or two lights and one dark rule," but I fear it may look too Eastery. Will it be fine given the weather?


----------



## Reddington

*Two tailoring questions*

I have a couple of tailoring questions. I would normally ask my tailor, but I'm afraid there's a slight language barrier. He knows how my suits and trousers should fit, so there's no need for much dialog. However, my two questions require a little more information.

1. Can a 40L sports coat be shortened to a 40R? Now, I know that this isn't advisable as the pockets will be too close to the bottom of the jacket, but, if the jacket has patch / flap pockets, can they be removed and placed at a higher position / correct?

2. I have a couple of v-neck long sleeve sweaters that no longer fit in the sleeves and shoulders. However, they fit fine in the chest. Can the sleeves be removed to create a nice sweater vest?

I apologize if these questions are mundane or just simply idiotic, but there really isn't anywhere else to ask such questions and I know very little about tailoring.

Cheers!


----------



## Naval Gent

Reddington said:


> 1. Can a 40L sports coat be shortened to a 40R? Now, I know that this isn't advisable as the pockets will be too close to the bottom of the jacket, but, if the jacket has patch / flap pockets, can they be removed and placed at a higher position / correct?
> 
> 2. I have a couple of v-neck long sleeve sweaters that no longer fit in the sleeves and shoulders. However, they fit fine in the chest. Can the sleeves be removed to create a nice sweater vest?


1. Might work, but the buttonholes would still be in the low position. Can't move those.

2. I don't think so. How would you finish the raw edge?

Scott


----------



## tripreed

Lawson said:


> I am debating whether to combine a navy blazer, pale blue shirt, and a mostly light mint green regimental tie. This outfit adheres to the "two darks and one light or two lights and one dark rule," but I fear it may look too Eastery. Will it be fine given the weather?


Sounds fine to me.


----------



## playdohh22

What exactly is a "trad haircut" ?


----------



## Reddington

Naval Gent said:


> 1. Might work, but the buttonholes would still be in the low position. Can't move those.
> 
> 2. I don't think so. How would you finish the raw edge?
> 
> Scott


Thanks Scott for the reply.

1. Yes, I forgot the buttons. Oh well, I'll forget I ever saw this jacket and move on. 

2. Good question. Could they leave an inch or so of sleeve material and then sew it back into the armhole? It may not be perfect but may be serviceable as a weekend vest and under jackets. Has anyone else tried a sleeve removal on a sweater to create a vest?


----------



## kforton

*quick matching question*

Dark navy BB sack suit
pale pink Mercer Oxford
Alden Shell No.8 tassels

What color and type of tie would you wear with this? I have quite a few ties, but I found myself flummoxed this morning. I just didn't want to wear the burgundy base repp that I am so bored with.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I think the "occasion" matters in that decision -- where you'll be, and what you'll be up to.


----------



## kforton

I'm at work in a law office.


----------



## Joe Beamish

With a navy suit? Tons of options. Depends more on the shade of pink of your shirt, I would guess. 

You would do well with red in the tie...so yeah. Lots of options.


----------



## burton

I don't own any pink OCBD's, but I'm planning on picking one up at the next BB sale. 

For some reason, I picture myself wearing an olive pattern tie with it.


----------



## hbs midwest

kforton said:


> Dark navy BB sack suit
> pale pink Mercer Oxford
> Alden Shell No.8 tassels
> 
> What color and type of tie would you wear with this? I have quite a few ties, but I found myself flummoxed this morning. I just didn't want to wear the burgundy base repp that I am so bored with.


Joe Beamish is right--tons, virtually tons of options...I'd like to see something with both dark red (or burgundy) and hunter green against the pink; the somber navy of the suit will tame things down considerably, at least until the jacket comes off.

Actually, one of my very favorite matchups to the BB pink OCBD is the 9th Lancers--Kenya red/pale gold guard stripes.

hbs


----------



## JohnnyVegas

playdohh22 said:


> What exactly is a "trad haircut" ?


Typically short and well groomed. Heck, the Beatles had hair that was too long for a "trad haircut," that's how short we're talking.

Think the Kennedy brothers.


----------



## randomdude

playdohh22 said:


> What exactly is a "trad haircut" ?


Photoshopped!

Seriously, what happened to that guy?


----------



## Lawson

A few forum participants have expressed a disdain for short-sleeve shirts and shorts. I'm not sure why they object to baring half their arms or half their legs. Is it an issue of modesty? Do they think long sleeve shirts and pants look more grown up and tasteful? Or do they think these parts of their body are too unattractive to display?


----------



## Naval Gent

(Speaking only for myself here) There is nothing wrong with shorts or short sleeve shirts - in the proper situation and venue. What I object to is people taking liberties with proper attire, and wearing shorts where more formal dress is appropriate such as on airline flights or out to nice resturants. 

Accepting shorts leads to accepting flip flops on men (yuck) and collored short sleeve shirts devolve into t-shirts, and then to t-shirts with vulgar mottoes or pictures. Wear shorts and short sleeves around the house, to a cookout, the lake, or running errands in your local zip code. But to work or to nicer venues, wear better clothes. I think short sleeve shirts are fine in warm weather where a jacket isn't appropriate, either in polo or button-down configuration (or even with a jacket sans tie).

Scott


----------



## Sartre

^ Well said.


----------



## hbs midwest

Naval Gent said:


> (Speaking only for myself here) There is nothing wrong with shorts or short sleeve shirts - in the proper situation and venue. What I object to is people taking liberties with proper attire, and wearing shorts where more formal dress is appropriate such as on airline flights or out to nice resturants.
> 
> Accepting shorts leads to accepting flip flops on men (yuck) and collored short sleeve shirts devolve into t-shirts, and then to t-shirts with vulgar mottoes or pictures. Wear shorts and short sleeves around the house, to a cookout, the lake, or running errands in your local zip code. But to work or to nicer venues, wear better clothes. I think short sleeve shirts are fine in warm weather where a jacket isn't appropriate, either in polo or button-down configuration (or even with a jacket sans tie).
> 
> Scott


+2 :icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## memphisvol

Picked these up thrifting today. Are they shell?

https://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ebay029jm4.jpg


----------



## eagle2250

^ From the appearance of the creasing, it would seem they are shell cord. Though I am not sure what was done to the finish...it almost looks to have been shellacked or perhaps just over-polished!


----------



## playdohh22

I don't see a point for starting a thread on this. So, I'll post it here.

I have just been chastised for posting a "what are you wearing today" post, on another forum (jean forum ). It wasn't much at all, really. A tucked in polo, 9" flat front shorts, ribbon belt, boat shoes. 

Here is one of the comments I received "I didn't have the balls to post that, but I agree. It looks great if you are headed out to the local shuffleboard competition at one of the many retirement communities in Florida." 

Here is my question. Is their a problem with young boy, like myself to wear "trad clothing" ? I myself personally do not find it the slightest bit of a problem. But I get critiques from others all the time for dressing "trad" they think it's esoteric and generally for older men. I recall on that forum they were providing advice to someone who needed it. SF and AAAC were mentioned, and I recall someone referring to AAAC as 50year old giving advice or something - I don't remember exactly. 

So, what are your opinions on younger men (boy) dressing trad ?


----------



## Sartre

I believe that many on this forum, myself included, learned to dress in the trad mode at a young age -- say, high school and college years.

Your particular outfit, with the exception perhaps of the boat shoes (flip flops being the ubiquitous shoe of today), sounds like what many young people wear nowadays.

TJS


----------



## bd79cc

playdohh22 said:


> So, what are your opinions on younger men (boy) dressing trad ?


Did it all the time when I was young. In Texas.


----------



## mcarthur

When I was in grade school my mother purchased my clothing at the boys department at 346 madison


----------



## wnh

playdohh22 said:


> I don't see a point for starting a thread on this. So, I'll post it here.
> 
> I have just been chastised for posting a "what are you wearing today" post, on another forum (jean forum ). It wasn't much at all, really. A tucked in polo, 9" flat front shorts, ribbon belt, boat shoes.
> 
> Here is one of the comments I received "I didn't have the balls to post that, but I agree. It looks great if you are headed out to the local shuffleboard competition at one of the many retirement communities in Florida."
> 
> Here is my question. Is their a problem with young boy, like myself to wear "trad clothing" ? I myself personally do not find it the slightest bit of a problem. But I get critiques from others all the time for dressing "trad" they think it's esoteric and generally for older men. I recall on that forum they were providing advice to someone who needed it. SF and AAAC were mentioned, and I recall someone referring to AAAC as 50year old giving advice or something - I don't remember exactly.
> 
> So, what are your opinions on younger men (boy) dressing trad ?


What you've got is fine. They're probably just bitter that they've dropped hundreds or thousands of dollars on clothes that they'll never wear 5 years from now.


----------



## JohnnyVegas

playdohh22 said:


> So, what are your opinions on younger men (boy) dressing trad ?


I have no idea why it's considered normal here in Massachusetts and "old man" elsewhere. I'm only 27 and I dress fairly trad. Seriously, if you like how you look keep doing it.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

playdohh22 said:


> I don't see a point for starting a thread on this. So, I'll post it here.
> 
> I have just been chastised for posting a "what are you wearing today" post, on another forum (jean forum ). It wasn't much at all, really. A tucked in polo, 9" flat front shorts, ribbon belt, boat shoes.
> 
> Here is one of the comments I received "I didn't have the balls to post that, but I agree. It looks great if you are headed out to the local shuffleboard competition at one of the many retirement communities in Florida."
> 
> Here is my question. Is their a problem with young boy, like myself to wear "trad clothing" ? I myself personally do not find it the slightest bit of a problem. But I get critiques from others all the time for dressing "trad" they think it's esoteric and generally for older men. I recall on that forum they were providing advice to someone who needed it. SF and AAAC were mentioned, and I recall someone referring to AAAC as 50year old giving advice or something - I don't remember exactly.
> 
> So, what are your opinions on younger men (boy) dressing trad ?


No problem at all.

As another young man who attempts trad, I'll say that you do have to be kind of careful with it.
As a rule of thumb I try an not look too composed.
Personally, I have pretty much stopped tucking in my polo shirts unless I'm wearing pants, it's cut down on the annoying "Alex P. Keaton" remarks.


----------



## Quay

playdohh22 said:


> So, what are your opinions on younger men (boy) dressing trad ?


It is a wonderful way to dress for any age. Along with the many fine comments already posted I'll add these:

--In years to come you and your family can look at old pictures of yourself with affection and without generational embarrassment as you won't have fallen into dressing in the fleeting styles of the moment, all which wear poorly with time and end up looking totally ridiculous.

--Parents of prospective dates will look upon you with favor since your pants won't be at your knees, you'll be dressed smartly and in a way that inspires feelings of confidence. Also, current older family members will start to credit you with uncommon good sense. This may lead to gifts of cash since you look like you'd manage it well.

--You'll save ridiculous amounts of money over time by not having to "update" your wardrobe twice a year.

--You'll rarely be looked at askance in any store, restaurant or business as those who dress Trad are usually looked upon with approval by the gatekeepers.

--At some point, "preppy" will make yet another comeback and you'll be given credit for either being the first one to get it or suddenly be surrounded by people dressing just like you and it won't be a big deal anyway. (Except of course their clothes will look brand new while yours will have that subtle patina that the really desperate will pay thousands more dollars to buy.)

Cordially,
A.Q.


----------



## eagle2250

Playdohh22, tell your nasty little detractors to take a hike and just follow your instincts. Conservative, timeless style choices are not a reflection of one's age, but rather, one's tastes! Ar this point, it seems you have good taste...and they don't!


----------



## playdohh22

Thank you all for the patronizing words. :icon_smile: I'm sure it will reassure me, the next time someone says something about the way I dress. 

Stan


----------



## Lawson

Playdohh, remember this quote, "You can measure a man by the opposition it takes to discourage him." Ignore people who make fun of you for dressing well. They will be asking if you want fries with your order ten years from now. Girls who prefer cads to gentlemen don't deserve you. Keep going for greatness.


----------



## Sartre

Quay said:


> It is a wonderful way to dress for any age. Along with the many fine comments already posted I'll add these:
> 
> --In years to come you and your family can look at old pictures of yourself with affection and without generational embarrassment as you won't have fallen into dressing in the fleeting styles of the moment, all which wear poorly with time and end up looking totally ridiculous.
> 
> --Parents of prospective dates will look upon you with favor since your pants won't be at your knees, you'll be dressed smartly and in a way that inspires feelings of confidence. Also, current older family members will start to credit you with uncommon good sense. This may lead to gifts of cash since you look like you'd manage it well.
> 
> --You'll save ridiculous amounts of money over time by not having to "update" your wardrobe twice a year.
> 
> --You'll rarely be looked at askance in any store, restaurant or business as those who dress Trad are usually looked upon with approval by the gatekeepers.
> 
> --At some point, "preppy" will make yet another comeback and you'll be given credit for either being the first one to get it or suddenly be surrounded by people dressing just like you and it won't be a big deal anyway. (Except of course their clothes will look brand new while yours will have that subtle patina that the really desperate will pay thousands more dollars to buy.)
> 
> Cordially,
> A.Q.


^ Love it. Good stuff.

Tjs


----------



## cycliste1

*TNSIL Quick and Dirty Definition*

I know the addage if you have to ask...

but at any rate what does "TNSIL" stand for?

Thanks in advance,

Jonathan


----------



## Tucker

cycliste1 said:


> but at any rate what does "TNSIL" stand for?


https://tnsil.blogspot.com/2008/04/tnsil.html


----------



## wnh

Tucker said:


> https://tnsil.blogspot.com/2008/04/tnsil.html


Shameless.


----------



## paper clip

playdohh22 said:


> I don't see a point for starting a thread on this. So, I'll post it here.
> 
> I have just been chastised for posting a "what are you wearing today" post, on another forum (jean forum ). It wasn't much at all, really. A tucked in polo, 9" flat front shorts, ribbon belt, boat shoes.
> 
> Here is one of the comments I received "I didn't have the balls to post that, but I agree. It looks great if you are headed out to the local shuffleboard competition at one of the many retirement communities in Florida."
> 
> Here is my question. Is their a problem with young boy, like myself to wear "trad clothing" ? I myself personally do not find it the slightest bit of a problem. But I get critiques from others all the time for dressing "trad" they think it's esoteric and generally for older men. I recall on that forum they were providing advice to someone who needed it. SF and AAAC were mentioned, and I recall someone referring to AAAC as 50year old giving advice or something - I don't remember exactly.
> 
> So, what are your opinions on younger men (boy) dressing trad ?


PD, to me, your issue is all about being different -

1. Specific: if you're posting a "trad" outfit on a jeans forum, you're going to get ridiculed, just as the folks here generally do not like it when posters put up photos of themselves wearing jeans or italian clothing on the "Trad" WAYW thread.

2. General: you know that other people will always have opinions on your clothes and appearance, especially if your appearance is different than the "norm". If your appearance is outside the norm of your clique, you are going to get ribbed about it. That's what people do, young or old.

So - you make a decision: do you fit in with your group and dress like they do - or do you dress like you want and understand that you will get ribbed at first, but if you keep up with it, you'll become known as the kid "who dresses like that" and they'll leave you alone, and perhaps be impressed that you stood your ground. If your "friends" don't come around and respect your choice (whatever it may be - trad, punk, coal miner) then they are not friends and its better you learn that from clothing choices rather than something more important down the road.

As you can see, your issue has nothing to do with "trad" or dressing "nice" - only with being different. Good luck with your choice!

End of "dad" lecture [wink]


----------



## Zot!

*Silver and Gold*

I just picked-up a pair of cuff links that are mercury dimes in very minimal gold setting around the edges, so they are mainly silver with a little gold (I don't typically wear French cuffs, but from studying a lot of pictures and films from the 50s/60s I thought I'd experiment).

I wear a tie clip, and generally try and match the clip to my belt buckle (and tie color sometimes). Since my watch is silver and I think silver just looks more "tasteful" anyway, I rarely wear a gold tie clip.

What is the "rule" on mixing silver and gold? Also, is there a sort of color wheel scheme for which shirt/tie/suit colors go better with gold vs. silver, or do you just wing it? Is a gold tie clip more appropriate for, for instance, a blazer with gold buttons, or is silver acceptable?


----------



## Joe Tradly

Zot! said:


> I just picked-up a pair of cuff links that are mercury dimes in very minimal gold setting around the edges, so they are mainly silver with a little gold (I don't typically wear French cuffs, but from studying a lot of pictures and films from the 50s/60s I thought I'd experiment).
> 
> I wear a tie clip, and generally try and match the clip to my belt buckle (and tie color sometimes). Since my watch is silver and I think silver just looks more "tasteful" anyway, I rarely wear a gold tie clip.
> 
> What is the "rule" on mixing silver and gold? Also, is there a sort of color wheel scheme for which shirt/tie/suit colors go better with gold vs. silver, or do you just wing it? Is a gold tie clip more appropriate for, for instance, a blazer with gold buttons, or is silver acceptable?


Rules? for Rules, see the other forum. The rule is chill out. Wear what you want with what you want. gold, silver, blue, green, pink with whales, it doesn't matter.

JB


----------



## hbs midwest

Zot! said:


> I just picked-up a pair of cuff links that are mercury dimes in very minimal gold setting around the edges, so they are mainly silver with a little gold (I don't typically wear French cuffs, but from studying a lot of pictures and films from the 50s/60s I thought I'd experiment).
> 
> I wear a tie clip, and generally try and match the clip to my belt buckle (and tie color sometimes). Since my watch is silver and I think silver just looks more "tasteful" anyway, I rarely wear a gold tie clip.
> 
> What is the "rule" on mixing silver and gold? Also, is there a sort of color wheel scheme for which shirt/tie/suit colors go better with gold vs. silver, or do you just wing it? Is a gold tie clip more appropriate for, for instance, a blazer with gold buttons, or is silver acceptable?


Huh???

Joe said it better than I could...this is about clothing, not rubrics.

Enjoy.

hbs


----------



## Sartre

Zot! said:


> ...I wear a tie clip, and generally try and match the clip to my belt buckle (and tie color sometimes). Since my watch is silver and I think silver just looks more "tasteful" anyway, I rarely wear a gold tie clip.
> 
> What is the "rule" on mixing silver and gold?...


I think this is a valid question. My sister-in-law once chided me for wearing gold-toned horsebit lofers and a silver belt buckle. I'd never considered that before.

That said, my rule of thumb is to avoid too much adornment in the first place.

tjs


----------



## Joe Beamish

What is "worsted" wool? I sometimes see suits described this way....

Thanks


----------



## randomdude

Joe Tradly said:


> Rules? for Rules, see the other forum. The rule is chill out. Wear what you want with what you want. gold, silver, blue, green, pink with whales, it doesn't matter.
> 
> JB


See, this is something that I don't believe at all, not for one second. The rule on this board seems to be, _chill out_ _within certain specific and defined parameters._ A person who posts here probably likes the boundaries of trad. So "do whatever you want" isn't really helping him. What are the general boundaries for mixing silver and gold? Once that's been established, then you can play with them a little.


----------



## bd79cc

^Well, I've been known to wear silver-rimmed eyeglasses, a gold watch, a silver Tiffany & Co. belt buckle, and carry around a gold-plated pen, all at the same time.


----------



## Naval Gent

Joe Beamish said:


> What is "worsted" wool? I sometimes see suits described this way....
> 
> Thanks


From various web sites:
*wor·sted* (w







s







t







d, wûr







st







d) 
_n._ *1. *Firm-textured, compactly twisted woolen yarn made from long-staple fibers.
*2. *Fabric made from such yarn.

Making worsted wool requires a greater number of processes, during which the fibers are arranged parallel to each other. The smoother the hard-surface worsted yarns, the smoother the wool it produces, meaning, less fuzziness.

*Worsted Wool*
Worsted wool is made up of fine and long fiber with a tighter weave. This makes the fabric denser and wrinkle-resistant. It also reduces fibre scale ends next to the skin. 
Worsted wool is light and not bulky like other wool. It has a nice drape and wears very well. Most importantly it can be worn year round. It is more airy than polyester so making it cooler. This is commonly used for both light and heavy weight mens suits. 
Of all the mens suits fabrics, worsted wool has been well accepted as the standard fabric to use. But there are many different types of high quality wool with different grades to take note of.


----------



## playdohh22

I recently bought this beautiful Norman Hilton jacket off a member on here. Alas, it doesn't fit me. But I am looking to get some tailoring done, hoping that I can keep this jacket. Would it be possible ?

















Is it possible to get the waist taken in ? I know I need to let the sleeves out, how much ? Is there anything else i should do to the jacket ?

And here is a few photos of the jacket -


----------



## wnh

^ The shoulders look pretty good (though maybe a bit wide), which is perhaps the most important part.  Too big or too small and there's not much you can do. It looks big through the chest, but that can be fixed somewhat. Just be careful not to try to have it taken in too much or you'll throw off the balance. How much you can have the sleeves let out depends entirely upon how much fabric has been turned under. At any rate, the right sleeve will need to be let out more than the left. The rule of thumb is that 1/4 - 1/2" of shirt cuff should show. The left sleeve might be fine, in fact.


----------



## anglophile23

What is the difference between finished and unfinshed worsted wool?


----------



## anglophile23

The front (marcella,pleated,starched)of a tuxedo shirt shouldn't go below the waistband otherwise it will pooch out. 

How do you know if the front is too long on a shirt bought online?


----------



## playdohh22

wnh - Thank you. Does anyone have anymore advice for me on the tailoring ?

I would also like to know what would be considered trad eye wear (glasses) ?


----------



## Zot!

playdohh22 said:


> I would also like to know what would be considered trad eye wear (glasses) ?


I'm probably in the minority on this here, but IMO it doesn't get more trad than the good old Ronsir Clubman:

Available at the following site:

Nearly indestructible too. True, they're the classic "nerd" glasses, but on the right guy they can look pretty classy, even authoritative. Examples:


----------



## hockeyman

*A Quick Question from Hockeyman*

What is the considered opinion of wearing Brown Shoes with a Blue Suit.


----------



## Reddington

hockeyman said:


> What is the considered opinion of wearing Brown Shoes with a Blue Suit.


Absolutely appropriate.


----------



## Reddington

playdohh22 said:


> I would also like to know what would be considered trad eye wear (glasses) ?


The 406's from Anglo-American https://www.angloamericanopticalltd.com/


----------



## playdohh22

Zot! said:


> I'm probably in the minority on this here, but IMO it doesn't get more trad than the good old Ronsir Clubman:


I tried on something similar of that at the store today. I like them a lot, but they look like crap on my tiny face.  They weren't the same exact ones, they were by Tom Ford - $450. It was out of my budget anyway, + the lenses it would had been north of $500.

But thank you, Reddington and Zot! for the suggestions. :icon_smile:


----------



## playdohh22

Do jackets with dual vents, interfere with the concept of trad ?


----------



## eagle2250

^ Not necessarily...a lot depends on all the other aspects of the garments design; non-padded shoulders, no darts, 3/2 roll, etc.


----------



## Zot!

playdohh22 said:


> I tried on something similar of that at the store today. I like them a lot, but they look like crap on my tiny face.  They weren't the same exact ones, they were by Tom Ford - $450. It was out of my budget anyway, + the lenses it would had been north of $500.
> 
> But thank you, Reddington and Zot! for the suggestions. :icon_smile:


These should cost you _a lot_ less than that if you buy them online. They also come in different sizes, and are the real deal (rather than a newer designer's interpretation of "retro chic." That said, whatever looks best on you is probably the most "trad" option, insofar as classy and understated is more desirable than flashy and conspicuous.


----------



## Jovan

I apologise if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find one when searching: Where did the three roll two originate? The farthest back I can trace it is a photo of Cary Grant that looks to be in the '30s or '40s, where he wears a peak lapeled jacket with this feature.

Thanks.


----------



## bandofoutsiders

Jovan said:


> I apologise if this has been answered before, but I couldn't find one when searching: Where did the three roll two originate? The farthest back I can trace it is a photo of Cary Grant that looks to be in the '30s or '40s, where he wears a peak lapeled jacket with this feature.
> 
> Thanks.


Somewhere on this site I've posted a photo of a man and a woman at some Harvard function dated 1920. here is the photo. The guy is wearing a vested sack that looks very similar to sacks today. Interesting how trouser slimness and the old "break/no break" question changes over time.

I'm pretty sure I've seen 3/2 rolls and 4/3 rolls on turn-of-the-century garments as well. It probably originated in English country suiting.


----------



## Smudger

*men's style in other times*

Gents, one and all,

Many good comments and pics from everyone. That recent post showing the bloke at Harvard with the roll on his sack jacket, showed something I did not know, that is, the roll goes back a long time. Looking at some old movies from the 30's, e.g. "The 39 Steps", and "The Thin Man", it appears that the British gentlemen of the time wore flat lapels. Are their photos "out there" that show flat lapels on Ivy Leaguers of that era?

Cheers,
Bill


----------



## TradTeacher

I'm looking at buying a new herringbone tweed jacket for the fall and, while perusing the Press sale, found this jacket in the Sale section:

https://www.jpressonline.com/sale_sportcoats_detail.php?ix=7

Anyone own this model and care to give me some feedback? I'm particularly curious at how the shoulders fit (I know there's been some whining about it before) and how "sackly" it is. Press sacks seem to appear boxier than BB but, then again, I only own BB sack jackets so pictures are my only basis for comparison.

Thanks, guys.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Nice, yes, thank you; I had already looked up the exact same stuff before posting my question -- But I wanted more of a user's comparison to whatever else is out there. (Like, if worsted wool is the "standard" -- what are the other options?)

I guess I was wondering why, on some eBay sales, the seller describes his garment as "worsted". Like...so what?

Thanks

JB



Naval Gent said:


> From various web sites:
> *wor·sted* (w
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> s
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> t
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> d, wûr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> st
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> d)
> _n._ *1. *Firm-textured, compactly twisted woolen yarn made from long-staple fibers.
> *2. *Fabric made from such yarn.
> 
> Making worsted wool requires a greater number of processes, during which the fibers are arranged parallel to each other. The smoother the hard-surface worsted yarns, the smoother the wool it produces, meaning, less fuzziness.
> 
> *Worsted Wool*
> Worsted wool is made up of fine and long fiber with a tighter weave. This makes the fabric denser and wrinkle-resistant. It also reduces fibre scale ends next to the skin.
> Worsted wool is light and not bulky like other wool. It has a nice drape and wears very well. Most importantly it can be worn year round. It is more airy than polyester so making it cooler. This is commonly used for both light and heavy weight mens suits.
> Of all the mens suits fabrics, worsted wool has been well accepted as the standard fabric to use. But there are many different types of high quality wool with different grades to take note of.


----------



## Jovan

Regarding sleeve placket buttons, it seems there's some BB shirts that have them (like the club collar I got last year), and some that don't. Any historical precedence for either? I can't seem to find a straight answer anywhere else on this board. I thought maybe the reason this one had a placket button was because it was from an outlet, but there's no "346" tag anywhere.

Here's the shirt in action, if you guys are interested at all. I was referred to the eBay seller "armyhardhat" when AlanC bought one and I asked where he got it.


----------



## Zot!

*High Arm Holes*

A lot of posts on this forum seem to express a preference for high arm holes on suits and sport coats. I must admit to being a bit naive as to what high arm holes would do to the fit of a jacket, or even how to tell if one has them. Frankly, when I hear "high arm holes" I envision the bottom of the cutout coming right up to my armpits, which doesn't strike me as comfortable. But people here sure seem to prefer them, so I guess it must mean something different.

Is there a particular body type high arm holes are suited for? Do most "standard" American suits (i.e., something like a HSM or Southwick 2b darted model) come with "high" or "low" arm holes [because I've never really had much of a problem with them- am I missing something really great]?


----------



## Jovan

I'm not a real expert on this, but having worn both snug armholes and the loose fitting, modern armholes most inexpensive makers (and some expensive ones!) make I can clearly tell you the former is superior.

It is comfortable because it gives you a better range of movement. Think of a pair of trousers with the crotch sagging low and you'll see why the over sized armholes make no sense. Ideally, they should hit a couple inches below the armpit for comfort, but I think some Victorian coats might have been even higher than that.

Some really muscular people may have problems with them if they're ready made suits, but that's about it.

Most American suits I've seen tend to have this problem, even the time tested brands like Brooks Brothers (who are slowly improving this from what I hear)

If you have not worn a coat with them you are indeed missing out. When I first wore a vintage '50s coat, I noticed the difference immediately. I could actually move around and do more than just stand straight. I could raise my arms without the lapels touching my ears.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Bringing up an unresolved (because unanswered) question from another thread, I wish to inquire:

Brooks sack blazers (now on sale, of course):

1. Are they made by Southwick?

2. If so, how similar are they to the Southwich Douglas model sold on Eljo's?

(The BB ones APPEAR fairly shouldery in the pic. But the Douglas APPEARS less so.)

THanks

Jabe


----------



## randomdude

Is this Orvis corduroy jacket a sack? Anyone have this?


----------



## Untilted

Joe Beamish said:


> Bringing up an unresolved (because unanswered) question from another thread, I wish to inquire:
> 
> Brooks sack blazers (now on sale, of course):
> 
> 1. Are they made by Southwick?
> 
> 2. If so, how similar are they to the Southwich Douglas model sold on Eljo's?
> 
> (The BB ones APPEAR fairly shouldery in the pic. But the Douglas APPEARS less so.)
> 
> THanks
> 
> Jabe


go for the douglas @ eljo's. the real deal.


----------



## randomdude

randomdude said:


> Is this Orvis corduroy jacket a sack? Anyone have this?


Well I just ordered this. Looks nice - patch and flap pockets, leather elbow patches, and it looks like a sack. I'll let you all know how it turns out!


----------



## Joe Tradly

randomdude said:


> Is this Orvis corduroy jacket a sack? Anyone have this?


In typical Orvis fashion, it's all all the marks of a three-button sack (natural shoulders, 3-rolled-to-2 lapel, center vent), BUT, it's got darts. I could be wrong, but I think I see them in that picture.

JB


----------



## Northeastern

Joe Tradly said:


> In typical Orvis fashion, it's all all the marks of a three-button sack (natural shoulders, 3-rolled-to-2 lapel, center vent), BUT, it's got darts. I could be wrong, but I think I see them in that picture.
> 
> JB


I'm with Joe on this, you can clearly see the darts running up the side of the coat. If you look at the buttons on the sleeve and then go straight up you'll see that V-Pattern where the dart screws up the flow (for lack of a better term) of the corduroy.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Tradly said:


> In typical Orvis fashion, it's all all the marks of a three-button sack (natural shoulders, 3-rolled-to-2 lapel, center vent), BUT, it's got darts. I could be wrong, but I think I see them in that picture.
> 
> JB


As usual, Tradly is right. I have it. Darts.


----------



## Jovan

I see nothing wrong with three-roll-two with darts. Yes, it is not a sack suit, but it will still look good. I know Thomas Mahon has or had a darted 3/2 that looked quite smashing.


----------



## randomdude

Jovan said:


> I see nothing wrong with three-roll-two with darts. Yes, it is not a sack suit, but it will still look good. I know Thomas Mahon has or had a darted 3/2 that looked quite smashing.


I don't really own any darted jackets, but I love the roomy shoulders on Orvis jackets, love the patch and flap pockets, love the leather elbow patches. I'm looking forward to this jacket.


----------



## Joe Tradly

Jovan said:


> I see nothing wrong with three-roll-two with darts. Yes, it is not a sack suit, but it will still look good. I know Thomas Mahon has or had a darted 3/2 that looked quite smashing.





randomdude said:


> I don't really own any darted jackets, but I love the roomy shoulders on Orvis jackets, love the patch and flap pockets, love the leather elbow patches. I'm looking forward to this jacket.


Yes people! Indeed! If you like the jacket, buy it!

I don't care for darts on jackets with strong vertical patterns like corduroy, seersucker, or pinstripe; in fact, like Random, I don't care for darts at all. But if you like the look of this jacket, rock it!

JB


----------



## gar1013

What's the fit like on J. Press sport coats? Do they run large, small, or true to size?If I'm a 41R in a suit, would it be a good idea to go with 41R for their sport coats, or should I go 42R to be on the safe side?


----------



## Sartre

^ My experience is that they run true to size. You certainly won't need a size larger; if anything, a size smaller because they are boxy. But I would start with your natural size.

TJS


----------



## ROI

Joe Beamish said:


> Nice, yes, thank you; I had already looked up the exact same stuff before posting my question -- But I wanted more of a user's comparison to whatever else is out there. (Like, if worsted wool is the "standard" -- what are the other options?)
> 
> I guess I was wondering why, on some eBay sales, the seller describes his garment as "worsted". Like...so what?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> JB


The primary alternative to the worsted system is the woolen system. Woolen yarn is coarser because it is carded, not combed as worsted is. Typically, there is also less twist in woolen yarn. Consequently, woolen fabrics have a loftier, more irregular surface than worsted. They also tend to be thicker. Most tweeds, saxonies, and all woolen flannels (the thick, spongy ones) are examples of woolens. A tropical weight woolen is unthinkable, whereas worsteds can be woven into a wide variety of weights.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ That's a helpful explanation, thank you!


----------



## randomdude

randomdude said:


> I don't really own any darted jackets, but I love the roomy shoulders on Orvis jackets, love the patch and flap pockets, love the leather elbow patches. I'm looking forward to this jacket.


So I bought this jacket and it's....OK. It's nice, good pockets, good leather patches, and you can hardly see the darts at all. But I feel kind of blah about it. I don't know, maybe it's the color - I thought it would look good with khakis, but I think it's too close in color.

You know what this is all about though? I was so heartbroken after getting only one super featherweight Harris Tweed jacket that I needed to go buy something to take the pain away. But you know what? It doesn't work. I need those tweeds!


----------



## randomdude

J. Crew saddles - I love mine. They're on sale for about $70 now and they're out of size 12. My size 12 saddles are a little big, and I've heard people say that J. Crew shoes run quite big. So I'm wondering - should I roll the dice and buy an 11 1/2 in the darker color? I'm looking at wearing them in the fall.

The sale is final, no returns, and the only reason I'm even thinking about this is that my off-white saddles are probably my favorite shoes to wear in the summer. They're just awesome shoes.

https://www.jcrew.com/AST/Browse/Me...sives/shoesaccessories/PRDOVR~74061/74061.jsp


----------



## SthrnGent

Question: I bought a three button suit separate and recently the vest as well. Is it appropriate to wear them together because the third button is rolled, in effect non working?


----------



## wnh

SthrnGent said:


> Question: I bought a three button suit separate and recently the vest as well. Is it appropriate to wear them together because the third button is rolled, in effect non working?


What?


----------



## playdohh22

I still have difficulty telling apart a jacket with padded and unpadded shoulders. Would someone kindly point me towards the right direction, of what a jacket, with natural shoulders would be/look like?


----------



## JohnnyVegas

SthrnGent said:


> Question: I bought a three button suit separate and recently the vest as well. Is it appropriate to wear them together because the third button is rolled, in effect non working?


Yes it is.


----------



## young guy

*trouser rise*

ok so i've read the long rise is so many inches from the waist and short rise is blah blah I still don't understand. Some people say long rise has very short zipper and they feel like theyre getting squished. I thought long rise meant theres more room - like my Bills khakis which have lots of room down there, like you can hang free if you get my drift. Sorry I don't know all the correct terms. do some people use the terms in reverse?


----------



## wnh

young guy said:


> ok so i've read the long rise is so many inches from the waist and short rise is blah blah I still don't understand. Some people say long rise has very short zipper and they feel like theyre getting squished. I thought long rise meant theres more room - like my Bills khakis which have lots of room down there, like you can hang free if you get my drift. Sorry I don't know all the correct terms. do some people use the terms in reverse?


In theory you'll wear the crotch of your pants in the same place from pair to pair. To put it another way, each pair will be the same distance from your pair. Thus, the waist on long-rise trousers will hit you at a higher point than regular or low rise. The point of long-rise trousers isn't to let the crotch hang halfway down your thighs to make it look like you need a lot of room. If that's the look you're going for, wear normal trousers and just use a sock.


----------



## young guy

wnh said:


> In theory you'll wear the crotch of your pants in the same place from pair to pair. To put it another way, each pair will be the same distance from your pair. Thus, the waist on long-rise trousers will hit you at a higher point than regular or low rise. The point of long-rise trousers isn't to let the crotch hang halfway down your thighs to make it look like you need a lot of room. If that's the look you're going for, wear normal trousers and just use a sock.


thanks I feel pretty silly now, i didn't know the waist was supposed to go up or down I've always worn every pair of pants on the same place on my waist, so the crotch has sometimes been different depending on the pants. thanks for the info but i think i'll keep my socks on my feet - LOL


----------



## wnh

Longer rises give you more room in the hips and waist, as well, which is helpful for those of us with man hips. Wear your pants at the same point on your waist and let the crotch hang free if you want, but I've never found that to be comfortable.


----------



## playdohh22

playdohh22 said:


> I still have difficulty telling apart a jacket with padded and unpadded shoulders. Would someone kindly point me towards the right direction, of what a jacket, with natural shoulders would be/look like?


I'd still like an answer for this. I would really appreciate any help.

I also have another question-

I've had this jacket, for a while now. I had the jacket for a while now. But never got the chance to wear it, because I never took the jacket to get some tailoring done. The sleeves on the jacket is too short. I measured one inch of material underneath. My question is, can the whole one inch be let out? Here are two photos-

















Would it be wearable, for now, without looking out of place?


----------



## Bebop15

*Jcrew Pants*

O collective wisdom...

Jcrew pants (I'm referring to their "essential chinos") are pretty cheap and come in variety of good, basic styles/colors. The question is, what kind of quality are they? Decent value given the price? Or, total garbage not even worth the modest price tag?

Appreciate it, gents.


----------



## SCsailor

I think the J Crew essentials are great. Great price, long lasting khaki.


----------



## randomdude

I like the J. Crew essentials myself.


----------



## randomdude

Question - I bought a beautiful pair of khaki/navy saddles quite similar to this:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=742719&postcount=7685

and I was wondering what the seasonality of these shoes would be. Year round?


----------



## Peak and Pine

playdohh22 said:


> I'd still like an answer for this. I would really appreciate any help.


Put your right arm through your jacket's right sleeve and stand in front of a looking glass. Does the shoulder slope match that of your left? If it does, then your jacket's got a natural shoulder. 

P&P​


----------



## AlanC

randomdude said:


> Question - I bought a beautiful pair of khaki/navy saddles quite similar to this:
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=742719&postcount=7685
> 
> and I was wondering what the seasonality of these shoes would be. Year round?


I'd wear them year 'round.


----------



## kevinbelt

playdohh22 said:


> I still have difficulty telling apart a jacket with padded and unpadded shoulders. Would someone kindly point me towards the right direction, of what a jacket, with natural shoulders would be/look like?


It's kinda hard to explain with words, so I'll give you a little experiment. Put your thumb and forefinger on the shoulder, on opposite sides of the shoulder seam an inch or so away from the seam, and about an inch or so away from the sleeve seam. Pinch. Next, do the same thing somewhere else on the jacket. If the two pinches feel pretty similar, it's more of a natural shoulder. If the shoulder pinch feels a lot thicker, it's padded. A truly natural shoulder will feel fairly similar to pinching a shirt (although there's lining in a suit jacket, which complicates things). But that gives you the general idea.

-k


----------



## Lawson

How do you guys feel about ties worn beneath sweater vests _sans_ jacket? The pairing certainly looks Trad on 12-year-old Sidharth Chand, runner-up at this year's National Spelling Bee.


----------



## Beefeater

Bebop15 said:


> O collective wisdom...
> 
> Jcrew pants (I'm referring to their "essential chinos") are pretty cheap and come in variety of good, basic styles/colors. The question is, what kind of quality are they? Decent value given the price? Or, total garbage not even worth the modest price tag?
> 
> Appreciate it, gents.


They fit me the best of most chinos I've tried, one of the few J. Crew offerings I'll pay retail for. I am 6'4 and wear a 36/34. They fit perfectly even after many launderings.


----------



## qwerty123

*Brooks Brothers Navy Blazer*

Dear all,

I've recently acquired a used navy blazer and have a couple questions about it. It is a Brooks Brothers 3/2 roll (not a sack). There are two (brass) buttons on each sleeve, spaced more than usual. I think this looks quite nice, but is it correct or were there three, and one fell off, and so another was torn off the other side for balance? My second question is about the buttons on the lapel: should the stitching to hold them on show through? It does.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Patrick06790

Lawson said:


> How do you guys feel about ties worn beneath sweater vests _sans_ jacket? The pairing certainly looks Trad on 12-year-old Sidharth Chand, runner-up at this year's National Spelling Bee.


I wear a sweater vest and tie at work all the time in Fall and Winter. The facility where I earn the weekly envelope has extremely erratic heating - either full blast or none at all - so the jacket comes and goes.

I have yet to be accused of looking like a 12-year old spelling champ thus attired.


----------



## paper clip

qwerty123 said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I've recently acquired a used navy blazer and have a couple questions about it. It is a Brooks Brothers 3/2 roll (not a sack). There are two (brass) buttons on each sleeve, spaced more than usual. I think this looks quite nice, but is it correct or were there three, and one fell off, and so another was torn off the other side for balance? My second question is about the buttons on the lapel: should the stitching to hold them on show through? It does.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


"older " Brooks jackets had only 2 buttons. I am not sure after what year they went with 3.

If you look closely, I'll bet that you will not see any tear or area where there had been stitching. I'll bet if there were three buttons and one fell or was torn off, you'd see evidence of it.


----------



## paper clip

Lawson said:


> How do you guys feel about ties worn beneath sweater vests _sans_ jacket? The pairing certainly looks Trad on 12-year-old Sidharth Chand, runner-up at this year's National Spelling Bee.


One of my favorite fall/winter looks as well. I use a tweed jacket as outerwear and wear the vest and tie in the office.


----------



## AlanC

Patrick06790 said:


> I have yet to be accused of looking like a 12-year old spelling champ thus attired.


Are you saying you can't spell?


----------



## wnh

qwerty123 said:


> Dear all,
> 
> I've recently acquired a used navy blazer and have a couple questions about it. It is a Brooks Brothers 3/2 roll (not a sack). There are two (brass) buttons on each sleeve, spaced more than usual. I think this looks quite nice, but is it correct or were there three, and one fell off, and so another was torn off the other side for balance? My second question is about the buttons on the lapel: should the stitching to hold them on show through? It does.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Seems kind of strange, since, if I recall, the 2-button sleeve was an indicator that the jacket was a sack. Last year I purchased a BB Brooksgate blazer on eBay, 3/2 roll, but never received it. It was darted, but I don't recall how many buttons were on the sleeve. Perhaps this is what you've acquired?

As for the buttons on the lapel, I'm guessing they fell off and a previous owner sewed them back on. I'm pretty sure the buttons aren't sewn that way when they're made.


----------



## Zot!

Anybody have any ideas about what kind of slacks would match well with a khaki cotton blazer? I usually see them paired with denim, but I was thinking something more you'd wear with a shirt and tie. For instance, do you think khaki with a black pair of cotton twill slacks would look weird?


----------



## Untilted

playdohh22 said:


> I still have difficulty telling apart a jacket with padded and unpadded shoulders. Would someone kindly point me towards the right direction, of what a jacket, with natural shoulders would be/look like?


playdoh, you are behind on your learning. 

Natural shoulder, no padding: the jacket shoulder is like a shirt, follows the shape of your real shoulder.

Padded, wing-like shoulder: do you think the guy's shoulder actually looks like that once he takes the jacket off?










i really hope you can tell the difference.

The completely natural shoulder is TOO unconstructed to some people. So this is a natural shoulder yet with shape, a.k.a. the perfect shoulder (for AAAT-ers)

The two jackets i sold you are both natural shoulder. feel the padding. very thin.


----------



## katon

Zot! said:


> Anybody have any ideas about what kind of slacks would match well with a khaki cotton blazer? I usually see them paired with denim, but I was thinking something more you'd wear with a shirt and tie. For instance, do you think khaki with a black pair of cotton twill slacks would look weird?


Cotton with cotton usually works. That said, khaki and black don't always look good together. Maybe navy?


----------



## Patrick06790

Zot! said:


> Anybody have any ideas about what kind of slacks would match well with a khaki cotton blazer? I usually see them paired with denim, but I was thinking something more you'd wear with a shirt and tie. For instance, do you think khaki with a black pair of cotton twill slacks would look weird?


I've done it with reds, no tie; with a medium blue chino, slightly frivolous tie; navy chinos, serious tie; blue seersucker, with and without tie.

The first and last were the most successful. A khaki-colored jacket, like the unstructured LL Bean model, is a very casual garment. A cream-colored linen jacket I own is an entirely different animal.

I often find it more difficult to do casual than "dressed up."


----------



## Bebop15

A brief question: what is corrected grain leather? how does one spot (and then hopefull avoid) it? Is it merely a vanity issue, or is corrected grain actually inferior quality leather? (doesn't last as long, stiff, etc.)

danka


----------



## gar1013

Brown tweed jacket. What color pants work best?


----------



## paper clip

Bebop15 said:


> A brief question: what is corrected grain leather? how does one spot (and then hopefull avoid) it? Is it merely a vanity issue, or is corrected grain actually inferior quality leather? (doesn't last as long, stiff, etc.)
> 
> danka


Here's a good thread on the subject:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=78071&highlight=corrected+grain+leather


----------



## Duck

Chinos and cords in various colors. Don't go to dark.


----------



## Sartre

^ Yes, yes. For some reason I have always had a "thing" about wearing trousers that are much darker than the jacket. I just don't like the look.

TJS


----------



## gar1013

Yeah, I don't really do the "darker pants than jacket" thing.

That being said, does olive go well with brown? And is it safe to assume that khaki and dark khaki also go?


----------



## kevinbelt

gar1013 said:


> Yeah, I don't really do the "darker pants than jacket" thing.
> 
> That being said, does olive go well with brown? And is it safe to assume that khaki and dark khaki also go?


I used to agree about the dark pants thing, but then I bought a khaki jacket of my own, and now I'm starting to reconsider. "Starting to" being the key phrase; I'm not entirely there yet.

Khaki pants are the obvious choice for the brown jacket. (Really, khaki pants are a good choice for just about every jacket, except khaki.) I really like olive, though. I think that would be a really good combination. With the right tie, navy might look OK as well.

-k


----------



## 17F

*How does my new J Press Blazer fit?*

I recently picked up this new 3/2-sack blazer and I love it, but I was wondering about the fit. It feels good around the shoulders/back and I don't think I would want to go any smaller but elsewhere it seems roomy. I have never owned a sack blazer and am not sure how it should fit. When I pull out on the jacket at the buttoned button how much room should I have between my stomach and the jacket? (If that makes sense.) I know it is a sack and is not supposed to be suppressed at the waist, but do you think it looks too large. Please let me know what you think of the jacket and the fit? Thanks. 
(I hope this is an OK topic to post this question in, if it isn't I trust the mod's will delete it.


----------



## wnh

^ Looks pretty good, though some waist suppression wouldn't hurt. Not to make it fitted, mind you, just to take away some of the excess. It actually looks like it might be too short in the first photo, but in the side shot it looks like it covers your rear, so maybe not. And looking at the shoulders, it might be a size too big for you. They seem to stick out further (farther? I never know) than they should. Perhaps you can purchase another in a size down (and perhaps a size longer) and return the one that's not quite right? I'd say it looks good in the chest and waist/stomach, though.


----------



## Jovan

I think the button spacing is a little large and makes it look somewhat unbalanced.


----------



## mcarthur

17F-
Welcome to the forum


----------



## Naval Gent

gar1013 said:


> Brown tweed jacket. What color pants work best?


Tan Gabs

Scott


----------



## Naval Gent

17F said:


> I recently picked up this new 3/2-sack blazer and I love it, but I was wondering about the fit.


Length is fine. Button spacing is sack suit standard (i.e.fine). Agree with with WNH that is may just be a size large overall. You look like a thin guy. If it were me, I think I'd rev up that credit card have Press send me the same thing one size smaller. (Hopefully they'll have it. Some sizes are hard to get in the odd numbers) Compare the fit and send the one that fits worse back for credit.

Scott


----------



## Jovan

Naval Gent said:


> Button spacing is sack suit standard (i.e.*fine*).


I disagree, but won't say more for fear of causing a riot.


----------



## JordanW

Jovan said:


> I disagree, but won't say more for fear of causing a riot.


Please explain, Jovan. I'm curious as to what you mean since I have only seen you wearing close cut darted jackets.


----------



## 17F

mcarthur said:


> 17F-
> Welcome to the forum


Thanks, and thank you WNH, Jovan, and Naval Gent for the input. It is sized 40S and I dont believe they 39S, just a 39 based on the website. I may try it, I love jacket.


----------



## wnh

17F said:


> Thanks, and thank you WNH, Jovan, and Naval Gent for the input. It is sized 40S and I dont believe they 39S, just a 39 based on the website. I may try it, I love jacket.


Depending on how close you are to the short/regular line, you might be able to get the 39R and have it shortened just a bit -- probably not more than 1/2" or so.


----------



## Naval Gent

^Good advice. I wear a 40S myself. 39 Shorts pretty much don't exist, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. More likely in a blazer than a suit. I've had 39 Regs that work.

Good Luck,

Scott


----------



## Zos

*J.Press Fall*

Anyone know ... around when will the new fall line be displayed on the J.Press website?


----------



## Jovan

JordanW said:


> Please explain, Jovan. I'm curious as to what you mean since I have only seen you wearing close cut darted jackets.


It could just be the position of the camera or an optical illusion or something. The sack blazers on the J. Press website look a little better. Nevertheless, when button stance is too low, it doesn't look so great. I'm sure now that it would look better in person.


----------



## wnh

Jovan said:


> It could just be the position of the camera or an optical illusion or something. The sack blazers on the J. Press website look a little better. Nevertheless, when button stance is too low, it doesn't look so great. I'm sure now that it would look better in person.


That button stance looks great to me, but I prefer jackets with the middle button at least an inch above my navel. I also think the button spacing on that blazer is great. If it were much wider it'd look off, but I think it looks perfectly balanced. Of course I don't have an expert eye for these sorts of things, so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## randomdude

Does anyone have any experience with this LE corduroy jacket? I like the look of it, the olive color especially.


----------



## Duck

It's darted and the buttons seem a little far apart to me. I have not seen it in person though.


----------



## Joe Beamish

My 3 pair of Bills khakis are too blankety-blank long. So I've finally put them in the hands of my dry cleaner, who agreed to shorten (and of course) re-cuff them. 

However, in the way of warning, she showed me how the cuff will look once the pants are shortened. The thin, faded edge of material now existing along the bottom of the cuff will be brought northward into the middle of the new cuff, and thus become visible. It's a straight, thin, faded line.

Has anyone else experienced this? Just curious.

I really want the pants to be shortened, and (of course) I want cuffs!


----------



## eagle2250

^ I have found the cuffs/hems on the legs of my Bill's to fray/show wear after a surprisingly short period of wear (i suspect this is the result of an overly vigorous pre-wash process!). Though I have not had the trouser legs shortened after wearing them for some period of time, I am certain if I had, a very clear wear line would have been apparent.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Thanks, Eagle. Yes, I'm expecting the line to be evident. But I'm wondering how egregious it will be. And whether it will blend in over time a bit...

I may be making a mistake. But the pants are too long. Period.

Clothes are such a learning process. I've made a number of mistakes. But some great discoveries.


----------



## AldenPyle

Joe Beamish said:


> Thanks, Eagle. Yes, I'm expecting the line to be evident. But I'm wondering how egregious it will be. And whether it will blend in over time a bit...
> 
> I may be making a mistake. But the pants are too long. Period.
> 
> Clothes are such a learning process. I've made a number of mistakes. But some great discoveries.


I've done the same thing. The line is still evident a year later, though admittedly those pants were in a dark olive making the line most noticeable and they also have moved to the back of the closet (at least in part because they have a line through them) thus have not had a great chance to blend in.

Probably, if I especially liked those pants, I would just have them decuffed.


----------



## Joe Beamish

De...decuffed? 

Decuffed. Dang.

Well, first I'll see how they turn out. And if the line drives me nuts, I'll have them....decuffed. (Sniff!)

The pain.


----------



## Duck

Joe,

I would take them to a tailor or a seamstress before I would the dry cleaners. That might be the reason they were to long in the beginning.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Actually, it's just the opposite, Duck.

Those Bills have been to a tailor, who can't seem to make them as short as I asked him to. (See umpteen threads on this common frustration.)

So I called another (awesomely helpful, professional, and excellent) tailor (who happens to post on this board occasionally). He recommended my taking the Bills to my dry cleaner (she'll honor my request for shortness, and charge considerably less).


----------



## Duck

Joe Beamish said:


> Actually, it's just the opposite, Duck.
> 
> Those Bills have been to a tailor, who can't seem to make them as short as I asked him to. (See umpteen threads on this common frustration.)
> 
> So I called another (awesomely helpful, professional, and excellent) tailor (who happens to post on this board occasionally). He recommended my taking the Bills to my dry cleaner (she'll honor my request for shortness, and charge considerably less).


Well, slap me and call me Susan. It is the complete opposite in Richmond. I tried the tailors and they ruined the pants.

Sorry about that


----------



## mcarthur

^I hope you didnot sue them for six million (winks)


----------



## Duck

mcarthur said:


> ^I hope you didnot sue them for six million (winks)


I forgot about that Uncle. Thanks for the good laugh.


----------



## Sartre

^ An approach that's worked well for me is to go to the dry cleaner's armed with the desired outseam of the trousers. So there's no trying on, no judgment call, no argument with the tailor. Most of the trousers I wear have the same rise and sit on my waist at the same height so this is a fairly bullet proof strategy.

tjs


----------



## Green3

What colour of trousers with this sportcoat?

javascript:history.go(-1);


----------



## Joe Beamish

Niiiice jacket. I would wear it with the usual khakis, grey wools, and (gasp!) dark jeans.


----------



## anglophile23

Don't forget cords.


----------



## paper clip

randomdude said:


> Does anyone have any experience with this LE corduroy jacket? I like the look of it, the olive color especially.


I own it and I like it - of course, I'd rather have a sack....but this is a good jacket for the price. Its a bit stiff at first, but I turned it inside out and put in the dryer on no heat for a bit to loosen it up.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=638226&postcount=4562
(second set of photos)

Fit is spot on to my size, though I should have gotten a 42L rather than a 41L so it would fit better with a sweater under it. The 41 fits perfectly with a OCBD and a pima cotton vest at most.


----------



## paper clip

Joe Beamish said:


> My 3 pair of Bills khakis are too blankety-blank long. So I've finally put them in the hands of my dry cleaner, who agreed to shorten (and of course) re-cuff them.
> 
> However, in the way of warning, she showed me how the cuff will look once the pants are shortened. The thin, faded edge of material now existing along the bottom of the cuff will be brought northward into the middle of the new cuff, and thus become visible. It's a straight, thin, faded line.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this? Just curious.
> 
> I really want the pants to be shortened, and (of course) I want cuffs!


Joe, I've gone through the exact same thing. My tailoress cannot seem to get my pants right, so I've gone to my cleaners.

Since I basically get the same kind of pants (Bills M1), I wash them and then measure them against the ones I have and mark them with safety pins. This has worked much better for me. I have had several pair corrected in this fashion with good success. The re-shortened cuffs do show the lines just as you've described (all are khaki colored), but I am living with them. I have one olive poplin pair which I gave up the cuffs because I figured the line would be too highly contrasting. I don't mind them without the cuffs all that much as they are lighter weight summer pants.

It has been an expensive learning process, but I know now exactly what I want and how to get it. I'd rather spend a little more to get the pants perfect rather than avoid wearing pairs that are too long.

I have not had any fraying issues as Eagle has had, though I do not use any starch on mine and merely hang dry. I have had some of my pairs for 2 years now.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Hey paper clip, that's excellent advice -- thank you. I'm going to try that.

I just eBay'd a pair of Bills summer twills ("Madison"). When they arrive (actually after I wash and dry them a couple times), I'm going to pin them alongside my favorite M2's. I'm done leaving things to chance.

As for the re-cuffed pants, they turned out very nice. One pair shows the "faded line", but like you, I'm totally un-bothered by it (although the thought of it beforehand scared me -- these aren't cheap pants).


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

PC- how do you measure the pants you want altered against pants you own? full length-to-length, or inseam-to-inseam?
I only ask because I'm trying to do the same thing, but have pants with differences as much as 2.5" in inseams that hit my shoe at the same place (presumably due to differences in rise).


----------



## erbs

*University Coat*

I'm looking for a charcoal wool university coat; can anyone recommend a good one? I know that J. Crew usually put one out, but is there anything higher quality? B2 maybe?


----------



## The Louche

^ University coat? I know it ain't the same, but I have a peacoat from J. Crew. Exceptionally well-made. I'd take a close look at the University Coat you have seen them offer - it may be nicer than you think. J. Crew is like a lot of other retailers IMO - they offer a mized bag. Some of their stuff is a complete bargain - some is a complete rip-off.


----------



## paper clip

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> PC- how do you measure the pants you want altered against pants you own? full length-to-length, or inseam-to-inseam?
> I only ask because I'm trying to do the same thing, but have pants with differences as much as 2.5" in inseams that hit my shoe at the same place (presumably due to differences in rise).


Good point. I have only used this measurement technique on Bills M1s - same pants to same pants. That way I know (with all due respect to Bob Barker) "the rise is right."

For future non-Bills M1s, I plan to wash them (excepting wool, of course), put them on and the roll the legs up, put on shoes and stand in front of a full length mirror and adjust the length until I am satisfied - and then safety pin them. Basically what the tailor does, but on my own time and schedule and without arguing or possibility of difference of opinion.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ My dry cleaner (whom I've gone to for at least 10 years) insisted: "No! Those will be too short!" but I stuck to my guns, told her not to worry. Finally she agreed to cuff the pants where I wanted them. 

And they turned out perfect. No tailor I've tried was ever able to do this.


----------



## msphotog

I've even had to argue with the store owner about length, at virtually every shop I've been to. At the shop where I used to get my Bills(now out of business) they supposedly had my measurements on file, but the last 3 pairs I got were too long. 
I have noticed that my laundry tends to stretch them out, I guess when they are pressed, so I'm going to have several pairs shortened


----------



## Joe Beamish

I'm coming to the conclusion that pant length is never quiiiite perfect, due to:

-- stretching and shrinking
-- different day, different shoes = different break
-- neurotic wearer of pants (me)


----------



## Moose Maclennan

Joe Beamish said:


> I'm coming to the conclusion that pant length is never quiiiite perfect, due to:
> 
> -- stretching and shrinking
> -- different day, different shoes = different break
> -- neurotic wearer of pants (me)


^
Very true. Chinos especially, I often just roll. Most particularly the change from low-cut shoes to boots dictates different lengths.


----------



## paper clip

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ My dry cleaner (whom I've gone to for at least 10 years) insisted: "No! Those will be too short!" but I stuck to my guns, told her not to worry. Finally she agreed to cuff the pants where I wanted them.
> 
> And they turned out perfect. No tailor I've tried was ever able to do this.


That is why I won't try them on in from of the cleaner/alterer anymore. I do it at home and then bring in the pants with the safety pins and just hand 'em over and say - "1.75 cuffs here, please."

The length does change depending on cleaning style. Pressing definitely makes them a bit longer. That's why I'd rather have them come out a bit short so when pressed or even hung dry, they stretch a bit longer.

I won't iron khakis anymore because they get those shiny marks on the seams. Either I hang them dry or get them pressed.

Geez, we're bloody finks.:icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ paper clip: You don't put the khakis in the dryer, then?

I hang dry my OCBD's. Maybe I should do that for my Bills, too.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Oh -- and do you get them pressed with a crease down the middle of the front? Or pressed flat?

(Jeez, sorry)


----------



## paper clip

JB,

Generally, I put my khakis in the dryer for about 5 minutes and then hang them dry by the cuffs. The Bills twill khakis are heavy enough that this method pulls out 95% of the wrinkles. They do not have a true crease, though.

For the lighter weight Bills poplins or chamois, I hang dry by the cuffs and then hand steam them to remove most of the wrinkles. A couple times a season I get them "wet pressed" at the cleaners.

If I want a crease, then I take them to the cleaners for laundering and "wet press". In my experience, the "wet press" helps them hold the creases a bit longer without using starch. I have them creased down middle of the front.

If I find that they are stretching out a bit in the waist or length, then I will dry them fully in the dryer, but then I am unsatisfied because they are wrinkly and send them to the cleaners for a wet press.

Because having the pants laundered and pressed at the cleaners is about $5 per pair, I think at some point I will just get a pants press and do it at home, but my concern is a pants press' effectiveness at removing wrinkles from the tops of the pants (not just the legs).


----------



## Joe Beamish

Thanks -- One more: By what method do you hang pants by the cuffs? Clothes pins?

JB


----------



## wessex

Joe Beamish said:


> Thanks -- One more: By what method do you hang pants by the cuffs? Clothes pins?


a pant hanger/trouser clamp (I haven't read everything, I just though this was the obvious answer).


----------



## stfu

Joe Beamish said:


> I'm coming to the conclusion that pant length is never quiiiite perfect, due to:
> 
> -- stretching and shrinking
> -- different day, different shoes = different break
> -- neurotic wearer of pants (me)


Add another who is in "perfect agreement", especially with regard to the last reason. I have had pants go from "too long" to "too short" in a single day. THAT is a neurosis.


----------



## paper clip

I use a pinch hanger like the one Wessex posted above, but mine have two clips with foam rollers. Purchased at Bed, Bath and Beyond or one of those such stores.


----------



## Tom Buchanan

I have what is probably a dumb question for the bit loafer wearers.

Do you polish Gucci style loafers the same as other shoes with kiwi wax or shoe cream? 

The leather seems to have a bit of a matte finish, as opposed to usual shoe leather. Is that just a function of the leather being softer/nappa style?


----------



## Duck

Tom Buchanan said:


> I have what is probably a dumb question for the bit loafer wearers.
> 
> Do you polish Gucci style loafers the same as other shoes with kiwi wax or shoe cream?
> 
> The leather seems to have a bit of a matte finish, as opposed to usual shoe leather. Is that just a function of the leather being softer/nappa style?


I polish mine the exact same way and wipe the bit down with a little polish for the particular metal.


----------



## The Louche

Tom Buchanan said:


> I have what is probably a dumb question for the bit loafer wearers.
> 
> Do you polish Gucci style loafers the same as other shoes with kiwi wax or shoe cream?
> 
> The leather seems to have a bit of a matte finish, as opposed to usual shoe leather. Is that just a function of the leather being softer/nappa style?


Shine mine with Kiwi same as any other. Do be careful around the bits, though. Everytime I have the bit loafers shined at a shine box I feel uneasy about the shine man's wanton disregard for the fact that the bits are held in place by small leather loops. I wouldn't be too violent with the old horsehair buff brush in that area. Like my boy Sinatra says - "nice and easy does it, everytime..."


----------



## Tom Buchanan

Thanks Duck and TL


----------



## The Louche

*Pants Press*

Paper Clip was talking about a pants press. I agree with him - I am neurotic about having fresh creases in my trousers and spend lots of money at the cleaners having them pressed after only the slightest compromise is made to the crease. How much would I have to spend to get a truly effective press for my house? Will such a press shine my trousers?


----------



## Naval Gent

You're talking about a "buck press". (My first Naval job made me responsible for the ship's laundy, among other things). Here's one I googled up real quick: https://www.hammacher.com/publish/7...1212526-_-1635618-_-Hammacher+Product+Catalog $250, can't vouch for its effectiveness. At $5.00 per trip to the laundry, that's 50 trips to break even.

Oh yeah, that kind of press does not shine fabric nearly as much as the back and forth motion of a hand iron.

Scott


----------



## stfu

*Should I buy this...*

Should I buy this new BB Houndstooth sportscoat (Navy?.Grey?.Gold ?) for $38 shipped?
​Yes, this is not the typical "Quick answers to quick questions" type of question, so have fun with it.


----------



## Jovan

I'm sure they'll only tell you to buy it if it's a three button sack. 

If it will fit you in the most important places and you like the style, why not? Houndstooth is not seen much these days and that's a good price for most any sport coat.


----------



## stfu

Jovan said:


> I'm sure they'll only tell you to buy it if it's a three button sack.
> 
> If it will fit you in the most important places and you like the style, why not? Houndstooth is not seen much these days and that's a good price for most any sport coat.


Hey, why do you think I showed no full size view of it's 2 button darted stance?! :icon_smile_big:

It is my size, and I like houndstooth. I think I am going for it.


----------



## wnh

stfu said:


> Should I buy this new BB Houndstooth sportscoat (Navy?.Grey?.Gold ?) for $38 shipped?
> ​Yes, this is not the typical "Quick answers to quick questions" type of question, so have fun with it.


If you like it, buy it. You don't need our permission. Thinking for yourself: all it's cracked up to be.


----------



## wnh

Jovan said:


> I'm sure they'll only tell you to buy it if it's a three button sack.


Yes, how ridiculous that members of a forum dedicated to a certain style of clothing would actually suggest that style of clothing.


----------



## Jovan

I was clearly joking, my friend!


----------



## anglophile23

The soles of my Bass weejuns are starting to crack. Is there anything I can do short of having them resoled?


----------



## Reddington

anglophile23 said:


> The soles of my Bass weejuns are starting to crack. Is there anything I can do short of having them resoled?


I'm certainly no shoe expert, but perhaps adding a rubber sole, such as Topy, may extend the life of you Weejuns. Good luck.

Cheers.


----------



## paper clip

Naval Gent said:


> You're talking about a "buck press". (My first Naval job made me responsible for the ship's laundy, among other things). Here's one I googled up real quick: https://www.hammacher.com/publish/7...1212526-_-1635618-_-Hammacher+Product+Catalog $250, can't vouch for its effectiveness. At $5.00 per trip to the laundry, that's 50 trips to break even.
> 
> Oh yeah, that kind of press does not shine fabric nearly as much as the back and forth motion of a hand iron.
> 
> Scott


I was even thinking about the regular Corby pants press:










One can get these for $150 or so on the 'bay. Clearly this would take care of the legs well, but what about the top part of the pants -

Even so - 30 pressings at $5 per - that's more than I would do in a year.....


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

are most of you fairly consistent in your pants size measurements? particularly inseams.

I've recently noticed that a well-fitting pair of pants can vary a few inches in the inseam for me (and a couple in the waist too).


Also, is there a sort of "standard inseam" for your height? i.e. 6'0" is usually around 32"?


----------



## eris

Hello everbody,

1st post and a question at that - hope no one's offended :icon_smile_wink:

Which of the three Allen Edmonds stores in Mahattan is the most worthwhile? I'll be in NYC 9/5-9/13, so I want to make the most of it....

Many thanks,

David


----------



## wnh

What is snuff suede?


----------



## randomdude

Is this a sack?



Thanks!


----------



## paper clip

wnh said:


> What is snuff suede?


Here's a new Leathersoul offering in the same:

Nifty, eh?


----------



## wnh

Yes, but what _is_ it? Does "snuff" refer to the color? Or a certain type of suede perhaps?


----------



## paper clip

Sorry. My guess is the color....perhaps mid way between dark brown and tan.


----------



## wnh

paper clip said:


> Sorry. My guess is the color....perhaps mid way between dark brown and tan.


Hmm... anybody else care to chime in? Color makes sense, and is what I figured "snuff" referred to, but I'm just curious.


----------



## eagle2250

^ I've also always assumed that "snuff suede" referred to the color!


----------



## The Louche

randomdude said:


> Is this a sack?
> 
> Thanks!


The roll doesn't look like its quite severe enough, but I'd say it's close. It also doesn't specify the venting, either. I understand that a true sack has a hooked center vent w/ lapped seams. From what I see, there are lots of center vent jackets these days, but not many that are hooked and lapped...


----------



## Pale Male

*"snuff" suede*

Color. Check Allen Edmonds for models in this suede. I bought a pair of boots. Just to my taste -- whatever that may be.


----------



## stfu

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> are most of you fairly consistent in your pants size measurements? particularly inseams.
> 
> I've recently noticed that a well-fitting pair of pants can vary a few inches in the inseam for me (and a couple in the waist too).
> 
> Also, is there a sort of "standard inseam" for your height? i.e. 6'0" is usually around 32"?


Because i am exactly 6'0", and because I asked myself this EXACT question days ago, I will give an opinion. I went and measured about 8 pairs of pants (and several shirts for my arm/shoulder measurments).

My opinion: NO! And almost entirely to do with the maker. (In other words, I am not referring to differences in style of cut here.)

Jeans, ALWAYS 34 inseem for me. They shrink up to the right length, and I accept them to be loinger than chinos or trousers. Again, point of reference I am 6'0" on the dot in bare feet. But that does not really adress the question.

So:

Cheap Chinos: Varies INCREDIBLY. My *CHEAP* goto 'flat front khakis' from a discount department store that I will not name is 34x34, and they fit very well. The same fitting style in my closet in a Polo/RL is tagged as 36x32. Fits and measures just like that department store 34 x 34. A dockers branded 'khaki' in 36 x 32 is tool large large in the waist, and *sometimes *too short in the inseam, but apparently never too long.

Finally, respectable trousers and suit trousers: a 36 x 32 will fit from ok to good at the waist, and may even need to be shortened a hair in the inseam. The point being, they are the most accurate measurements and still vary in length.

My theories: 
1) "Vanity sizing" is a function of the cost (actually 'respectability' as it were) of the maker. I wear a 34 waist, easy, in knock around junky shorts made by the brands that the kids these days wear, and a 36 in my nicer BB and RL shorts. There is very much 2" variance here. The same is tru of the pants as I stated above. Not sure why the department store wants me to be happy with a 34 inseem as opposed to a 32, but they do!

2) Pleats throw off inseem measurements when compared to flat fronts. We all know the inseem is the inseem, and pleats should not come in to play when measuring an inseam, but they do seem to wear different, and not how you might suspect. It seems my pleated pants seem to run longer at the same inseam size as a flat front.

 I am sure I have not helped, but I have been wondering similar things.


----------



## Zos

*Bit Loafer / JPress Sale*

2 Questions.

1) Are Black-Gucci Bit loafers Trad? They seem extremely yuppie to me, and as time progresses they seem to go more and more to the yuppie, 'look at me' side. 
2) Does J.Press have a sale right before or after thanksgiving?


----------



## Jovan

I wouldn't classify anything Gucci makes as trad.


----------



## Zos

Can you wear wingtip bals, or just bals in general with an odd sports coat and trousers


----------



## anglophile23

Zos said:


> Can you wear wingtip bals, or just bals in general with an odd sports coat and trousers


I do.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

stfu-thanks appreciate your response (though the fact that someone 6' even wears 34" inseams makes me think I have short legs).

Gucci loafer ARE in TOPH....


----------



## Zos

So does that mean I should avoid them at all costs? I haven't read that book.


----------



## eagle2250

Zos said:


> 2 Questions. 1) Are Black-Gucci Bit loafers Trad? They seem extremely yuppie to me, and as time progresses they seem to go more and more to the yuppie, 'look at me' side.


IMHO Gucci Bit loafers are TRAD but, if ya have to think about it, are they? To my mind, a big part of TRAD is marching to one's own drummer. The good news is...we are all right!


----------



## Joe Beamish

Basic question from a neophyte: Does it matter whether the wingtips are balmorals or blutchers? Is one type dressier than the other?



Zos said:


> Can you wear wingtip bals, or just bals in general with an odd sports coat and trousers


----------



## wnh

Joe Beamish said:


> Basic question from a neophyte: Does it matter whether the wingtips are balmorals or blutchers? Is one type dressier than the other?


Bals are dressier than bluchers, as a general rule at least.


----------



## stfu

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> stfu-thanks appreciate your response (though the fact that someone 6' even wears 34" inseams makes me think I have short legs).
> 
> Gucci loafer ARE in TOPH....


Hah, that's the rub, the 34 inseams I wear are: A) jeans that are longish and shrink or B) totally mis represented by the manufacturer!


----------



## Pale Male

*J. Press Sale*

As I recall, the Private Sale is the week of Thanksgiving, with the general sale beginning just after Thanksgiving.


----------



## redmanca

Is this a sack sportcoat? I know the roll isn't as much as some others, but I can't tell if it is darted or not, though it doesn't look like it to me.



Anyone want to weigh in?

Thanks,

Conor.


----------



## Joe Tradly

redmanca said:


> Is this a sack sportcoat? I know the roll isn't as much as some others, but I can't tell if it is darted or not, though it doesn't look like it to me.
> 
> Anyone want to weigh in?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Conor.


No. If you look closely, it's darted, and the lapel roll, although soft as pictured, is a full three button. Also, the ticket pocket (and, I would guess duel vents) are giveaways for a British-cut suit rather than a traditional Ivy League sack jacket.

JB


----------



## redmanca

Joe Tradly said:


> No. If you look closely, it's darted, and the lapel roll, although soft as pictured, is a full three button. Also, the ticket pocket (and, I would guess duel vents) are giveaways for a British-cut suit rather than a traditional Ivy League sack jacket.
> 
> JB


Thanks very much.

Conor.


----------



## Zos

Can you wear cordovan shoes when it's raining? if not, what do you wear?


----------



## Reddington

Zos said:


> Can you wear cordovan shoes when it's raining? if not, what do you wear?


I wouldn't because water is murder on leather soles. Get Topy's, Tingley Overshoes, or wear rubber-soled shoes on rainy days. I know because it rains (or is wet) about 300 days a year where I live. 

Cheers.


----------



## Lawson

Many of us wear Oxford dress shirts open without a tie or sportcoat for dressy casual attire. Lately, I have done likewise with broadcloth dress shirts with button down collars that have tattersall and small box patterns. Do you wear these open _sans_ sportcoat when the line separating casual and dressy becomes blurred (i.e. business casual offices)?


----------



## Joe Beamish

I always wear a jacket to work. I keep it at my desk, wearing it about half the time. This means I'm often going around "in my shirtsleeves".

I prefer OCBD's to other models of dress shirt because they seem flattering. They "stand up".

OCBD's flatter my personality, too, amplifying my earnestness. A guy who keeps his nose clean.



Lawson said:


> Many of us wear Oxford dress shirts open without a tie or sportcoat for dressy casual attire. Lately, I have done likewise with broadcloth dress shirts with button down collars that have tattersall and small box patterns.* Do you wear these open sans sportcoat when the line separating casual and dressy becomes blurred (i.e. business casual offices)?*


----------



## wnh

Lawson said:


> Many of us wear Oxford dress shirts open without a tie or sportcoat for dressy casual attire. Lately, I have done likewise with broadcloth dress shirts with button down collars that have tattersall and small box patterns. Do you wear these open _sans_ sportcoat when the line separating casual and dressy becomes blurred (i.e. business casual offices)?


No broadcloth for me, but I do do pinpoint. Always with 'nicer' khakis (Bills chamois cloth, for instance), and always with a leather belt. I'll usually wear surcingle or grosgrain with OCBDs, but not with the pinpoint. And more often than not I'll wear dressier shoes--generic Weejuns with OCBDs, but I've got a pair of low-vamp Weejuns that are sleeker and dressier that are chosen over the others with pinpoint shirts.


----------



## Bebop15

Anyone know where (on the internet) I can find a listing of Bass Shoe Outlets? Their website has been less than helpful. I need some Weejuns!


----------



## playdohh22

I want to stock up on some BB OCBD. I am able to fit a size 20 in kids size. My question is, what is the quality difference between the kid's OCBD and the men's OCBD, from Brooks? Should I shell out, and go for the kids? Or there is a reason for the price difference?


----------



## Larsd4

I believe the kids OCBD's are non-iron. Forget 'em.


----------



## Prepstyle

I'm looking for a new shoe for my work rotation. I start at my new job tomorrow and will be wearing a suit everyday. I have a pair of AE Park Avenues in black, and a more fashion-forward burnished tan Cole Haan cap toes, as well as a crappy burgandy Bostonian plain toe with a rubber sole for rainy days.

I was thinking the AE MacNeil in burgandy calf, but wonder if I should get something else until i can save up for the MacNeils in shell.

Any other recommendations. A punch cap? Brown or Burgandy?

What would be your number 2 shoe?

THanks


----------



## AlanC

It partly depends on how conservative your office is, but a burgundy punch cap would be very versatile. You can wear it with virtually anything. If it's a little less conservative a dark brown punch cap would work well. Still, it's likely a good idea to have a second conservative shoe (non-brown, non-brogue) in the rotation. Since you already have the Cole-Haans in a brown, use them for now, get the burgundy punch caps, save for the shell wingtips.


----------



## oxford

*British Warm Topcoat*

Any comments on the British Warm Topcoat featured on the J. Press website. I am thinking of buying one for Christmas. It is a bit costly at $1,000. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Peak and Pine

oxford said:


> Any comments on the British Warm Topcoat featured on the J. Press website. I am thinking of buying one for Christmas. It is a bit costly at $1,000. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!


You mean for yourself, or for someone else (you mentioned Christmas)? If it's for you, spring for the grand. If it's for someone else, keep it around 50 bucks.​


----------



## playdohh22

Larsd4 said:


> I believe the kids OCBD's are non-iron. Forget 'em.


That stinks!

School is starting for me. And I need a new book bag. I would like some suggestions on a bag that would lean more on the tradly side. My concern is who makes them?

What bags did you guys lug in high school?


----------



## Peak and Pine

playdohh22 said:


> That stinks!
> 
> School is starting for me. And I need a new book bag. I would like some suggestions on a bag that would lean more on the tradly side. My concern is who makes them?
> 
> What bags did you guys sport back in high school?


Well, first off we didn't use the word _sport_. Lug was more like it. You lugged your books in one hand via a strap and buckle (not too different from a pants belt) that was lashed around the books then grabbed in your hand. We didn't carry no stinking books on our backs. Carrying books on your back seems akin to seeing third-worlders carry stuff on their heads.

But then I'm in my 60's and was your age _in_ the 60's. We had no computers and we had no cell phones. But we had marajuana and blow jobs and that seemed to make up for it.

Good luck with the book bag, kid.​


----------



## Hobson

Does anyone know when the next Brooks Brothers sale is scheduled? Also, will the percentage off apply to clearance merchandise? Thanks.


----------



## eagle2250

^ Last I heard from the staff in my local BB store, there is a friends and family sales event scheduled for sometime in September. Sorry, I don't have specific dates but, understood it would be earlier in the month.


----------



## Naval Gent

Has anyone used the AAAC corporate card at BB for their "Select" program goods? My local mall BB said sorry, not valid for Select. I don't exactly trust their knowledge on much. My regular guy wasn't working today, and everybody else seems to be named Larry, Moe or Curly.

Scott


----------



## AlanC

Hobson said:


> Does anyone know when the next Brooks Brothers sale is scheduled?


My sources tell me the Friends & Family begins on Sept 23.


----------



## Naval Gent

*Answering my own question...*



Naval Gent said:


> Has anyone used the AAAC corporate card at BB for their "Select" program goods? My local mall BB said sorry, not valid for Select. I don't exactly trust their knowledge on much. My regular guy wasn't working today, and everybody else seems to be named Larry, Moe or Curly.
> 
> Scott


Sent an e-mail to the Corporate Program at BB and very promptly got this response:

*Dear Mr. (Naval Gent),*

*There is a Tailored Clothing Event currently being promoted. You may use your corporate membership card but you cannot combine the discounts together. You can receive one or the other, whatever would be the better savings. Please let me know what store you were inquiring with as I would like to follow up with them. Please contact me if you have any other questions.*

*Thank you,*
*Lisa*

Lisa Acevedo
Coordinator
Corporate Incentive Services

I especially appreciate the promise to follow up. If she could only fix the problems with darted jackets and non-iron shirts...

Scott


----------



## PorterSq

What's the difference between "oilskin" and "waxed" fabrics? Is one better than the other?


----------



## Naval Gent

PorterSq said:


> What's the difference between "oilskin" and "waxed" fabrics? Is one better than the other?


My impression is that "oilskin" is a bit of a general, old fashioned term for any fabric treated to be waterproof. Back when I did authentic reenacting, the hard core researchers were always coming up with some concoction or other to make "real" oilskin. They usually involved lots of linseed oil and some sort of latex or latex substitute (enamel paint was what I used). It worked OK when applied to canvas and allowed to dry (in a spark-free environment) for a loooong time.

I think "oilskins" could also just refer to rain gear in general. Especially in a nautical context.

You probably know what waxed fabrics are if you've ever seen a Barbour jacket. Filson, Barbour, Lewis Creek, etc.

Scott


----------



## PorterSq

Thanks, Navy Gent.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Should I have two separate horsehair polishing brushes for my shoes?
i.e. one for blacks and one for brown?


----------



## Reddington

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Should I have two separate horsehair polishing brushes for my shoes?
> i.e. one for blacks and one for brown?


Yes, you should.


----------



## AlanC

I no longer use my polishing brushes. I use a cotton rag.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Just so. I've recently discovered my preference for rags over brushes.



AlanC said:


> I no longer use my polishing brushes. I use a cotton rag.


----------



## Reddington

Joe Beamish said:


> Just so. I've recently discovered my preference for rags over brushes.





AlanC said:


> I no longer use my polishing brushes. I use a cotton rag.


I too use an old t-shirt for working in the polish, but don't y'all use brushes to buff the shoe? Also, wouldn't one want two brushes to brush off their shoes at the end of the day? One for black, one for brown. 

Cheers.


----------



## Naval Gent

Reddington said:


> I too use an old t-shirt for working in the polish, but don't y'all use brushes to buff the shoe? Also, wouldn't one want two brushes to brush off their shoes at the end of the day? One for black, one for brown.
> 
> Cheers.


A dissenting voice: I've use one brush on black and brown shoes for years without noticing any ill effect. I keep one at home and another in my desk drawer at the office.

A soft rag works great for a final buff-up (an extra 1-2%), but I rarely care enough to expend the effort.

Scott


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Hmmm I just bought a brush because I was less than impressed with the results I got when I buffed with a cotton rag (old tee shirt).

Redd- are you talking about 4 brushes? one for each shade for both buffing and brushing off at day's end?
My local drugstore chain is no longer going to carry shoe polish or brushes so kiwi stuff is ridiculously cheap...


----------



## Reddington

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Hmmm I just bought a brush because I was less than impressed with the results I got when I buffed with a cotton rag (old tee shirt).
> 
> Redd- are you talking about 4 brushes? one for each shade for both buffing and brushing off at day's end?
> My local drugstore chain is no longer going to carry shoe polish or brushes so kiwi stuff is ridiculously cheap...


No, just two brushes. I use the same brush for buffing after polish and again for the 'end of day' brush off.


----------



## eagle2250

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Hmmm I just bought a brush because I was less than impressed with the results I got when I buffed with a cotton rag (old tee shirt).


Buff your shoes with a pair of your wife's old pantyhose or nylons. You will get an even better result!


----------



## randomdude

Anyone have any experience with the Orvis hopsack blazer in Dartmouth green? I've been lusting after an affordable green blazer for a while now, and this one looks pretty good. I'm broad-shouldered so I like Orvis jackets.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Are hopsack suits common?
I found an old BB hopsack jacket that I thought was a sportcoat, but it's a little suit coat looking...


----------



## wessex

Does madras imply a cotton fabric, or just a type of weave?

The question arose because of this ridiculous item https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB_B...on=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=725&CurSeq=5 which claims to be "cashmere madras". Fine goat hair and bleeding plaid dyes for India seem like a contradiction to me.


----------



## wnh

wessex said:


> Does madras imply a cotton fabric, or just a type of weave?
> 
> The question arose because of this ridiculous item https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB_B...on=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=725&CurSeq=5 which claims to be "cashmere madras". Fine goat hair and bleeding plaid dyes for India seem like a contradiction to me.


My understanding was that madras is cotton, hand-woven in India, but that's based on Boyer's Elegance, which was published in 1987, so the definition has perhaps changed since then. BB also offered these linen "madras" trousers this summer, and I thought the same thing then. I wonder if perhaps BB's marketing department is getting lazy.


----------



## Tucker

wessex said:


> Does madras imply a cotton fabric, or just a type of weave?


Main Entry: ma·dras 
Pronunciation: \ˈma-drəs; mə-ˈdras, -ˈdräs\ 
Function: noun 
Etymology: Madras, India 
Date: circa 1830 
1: a large silk or cotton kerchief usually of bright colors that is often worn as a turban
2 a: a fine plain-woven shirting and dress fabric usually of cotton with varied designs (as plaid) in bright colors or in white b: a light open usually cotton fabric with a heavy design used for curtains

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/madras


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

wessex said:


> Does madras imply a cotton fabric, or just a type of weave?
> 
> The question arose because of this ridiculous item https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB_B...on=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=725&CurSeq=5 which claims to be "cashmere madras". Fine goat hair and bleeding plaid dyes for India seem like a contradiction to me.


Is it just me, or does that jacket/trousers combination look REALLY top heavy?


----------



## paper clip

AlanC said:


> I no longer use my polishing brushes. I use a cotton rag.


Same here. I use old t-shirts for applying polish and cream and buffing. I finish with a horsehair brush. I also brush my shoes before wearing with a horsehair brush, but do not have separate brushes for different colored shoes. Dust is dust, I say.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I'm looking for a few Shetland sweaters (pullovers like those advertised on the O'Connells website).

Sizes offered usually include 40, 42, 44...and even numbers up to the low 50's.

Do those sizes correspond to jacket size, pretty much? (If I wear a 40 jacket, then I want a 40 sweater)?

Thanks


----------



## wnh

^ FYI, this seller has some NWT BB shetlands for sale at a good price. You'll have to sift through a lot, and he doesn't list them as shetlands (not even in the description), but you can read it on the tags.


----------



## Joe Beamish

wnh -- Right you are. Thank you! :icon_smile:


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

With all the talk about Cordovan shoes and stretching, does buying used cordovan shoes even make sense?
I've passed of a few pair recently because I'm so worried that they'll be stretched out 1.5 sizes by someone else's foot.


----------



## paper clip

I am wearing right now shell shoes that were pre-owned. At the time I bought them, they showed evidence of wear, but not heavy wear - Alden indicated from the numbers that the shoes were from 1992 or 2002. In any event, the size written in the shoe is the size they are still. They have not stretched much if at all over the year and a half I've owned them and worn them at least weekly.

Also, I have bought new 986s 2.5 years ago and have worn them at least 1 time a week, often 2 times during that period, and other than the vamp strecthing beyond that painful point (remedied by a cobbler stretching them), they remain the same size and perfect fit.

Of course, YMMV.


----------



## wnh

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> With all the talk about Cordovan shoes and stretching, does buying used cordovan shoes even make sense?
> I've passed of a few pair recently because I'm so worried that they'll be stretched out 1.5 sizes by someone else's foot.


I assume you're talking about buying online? Because in a store you can always just try them on...

Anyway, my impression was that calfskin stretches more than shell, so that calfskin shoes would be more of a risk. But I could be wrong about that.


----------



## playdohh22

Is the width of the lapels too wide and the gorge too high?


----------



## CM Wolff

Hobson said:


> Does anyone know when the next Brooks Brothers sale is scheduled? Also, will the percentage off apply to clearance merchandise? Thanks.


Friends & Family runs from the 24th through the 28th


----------



## Patrick06790

playdohh22 said:


> Is the width of the lapels too wide and the gorge too high?


Depends on your build. I have a huge head so I can get away with wider lapels. I think.


----------



## wnh

playdohh22 said:


> Is the width of the lapels too wide and the gorge too high?


Lapels look wide, but I don't know about the gorge. I'd be more concerned with the burn hole in the pants.


----------



## wnh

Patrick06790 said:


> Depends on your build. I have a huge head so I can get away with wider lapels. I think.


No, you can't. We just don't tell you that.


----------



## playdohh22

wnh said:


> I'd be more concerned with the burn hole in the pants.


Hot-shot ic12337:


----------



## Lawson

I doubt many of you own denim shirts, but you might buy one if you were dating a girl who loves denim. What type of pants looks best with denim other than jeans? Would a medium shade of denim look decent with khaki, navy, or gray chinos? Are cords too dressy to pair with denim?


----------



## Pentheos

Lawson said:


> I doubt many of you own denim shirts, but you might buy one if you were dating a girl who loves denim. What type of pants looks best with denim other than jeans? Would a medium shade of denim look decent with khaki, navy, or gray chinos? Are cords too dressy to pair with denim?


I would remedy this sartorial conundrum by not dating a girl who likes denim shirts.


----------



## RyanPatrick

I was recently helping my mom move into her new house and in the process came across two boxes of my father's clothing that we boxed up after he passed away. There was some great stuff in there and luckily I've grown up to be the same size that my dad was. 
Anyway, there was one MTM suit in the box that is beautiful except for one thing...it has peak lapels. Is there anyway to have a tailor alter this? The suit is great, but I don't think I would ever wear it with the lapels as is. Thanks for any information you can provide.


----------



## Jovan

Don't alter them! At least ask if someone else your size wants it.


----------



## Zot!

*Pocket Squares*

I know Irish linen is preferred, but is cotton also acceptable?


----------



## wnh

Zot! said:


> I know Irish linen is preferred, but is cotton also acceptable?


I don't know why it wouldn't be. I've used a cotton square in a TV fold multiple times.


----------



## Sartre

Lawson said:


> I doubt many of you own denim shirts, but you might buy one if you were dating a girl who loves denim. What type of pants looks best with denim other than jeans? Would a medium shade of denim look decent with khaki, navy, or gray chinos? Are cords too dressy to pair with denim?


I disagree that a denim shirt would look well with jeans. I would recommend khakis or corduroys.

tjs


----------



## Lawson

Ralph Lauren seems to prefer the jean-on-jean look, though his casual style is more urban cowboy than Trad. Oddly enough, I own a PRL denim shirt with a BD collar but not a single good pair of jeans. I suppose it could work with my navy cords or chinos and gray chinos. Bear in mind that I don't plan to ever wear the shirt in public.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Are Aldens the only shoe with those funky askew dovetailed heel insets?


----------



## redmanca

Sack? 





10 points for a guess on who the maker is.

Conor


----------



## redmanca

Another question:

I read a lot on these forums about how an orphaned suit coat isn't good as an odd jacket. I understand that, but how can I know when a it is a suit coat and not a sport coat. What defining characteristics are there?

Thanks,

Conor


----------



## playdohh22

Indeed a sack.


----------



## playdohh22

redmanca said:


> Another question:
> 
> I read a lot on these forums about how an orphaned suit coat isn't good as an odd jacket. I understand that, but how can I know when a it is a suit coat and not a sport coat. What defining characteristics are there?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Conor


I asked the same question a long time ago. And here is what I got-



paper clip said:


> GENERALLY, the easiest was is to check out the buttons - if they closely match the color of the jacket fabric, it's an orfling suit coat.
> 
> If the buttons contrast - pearl, corozo nut, horn, gold, brass, pewter, its meant to be a blazer.





wnh said:


> Another strong indicator is if the jacket has a certain subtle pattern, such as a pinstripe or glen plaid. To my knowledge, all pinstripe jackets being sold alone on eBay or in thrift stores are either orphaned suit jackets or are from a company that you shouldn't be buying a jacket from anyway, like Target or Express or something. Pinstripe 'blazers' were 'in' a few years ago, and I imagine they're still pretty easy to find. But unless you're shooting for AmJack, don't wear a pinstripe jacket unless the trousers match (i.e. a suit).
> 
> As for plaids and other patterns, the bolder the pattern the more likely the jacket is to be an odd jacket. Generally speaking, more subtle patterns are found on suitings.
> 
> As for how to distinguish a navy blazer from an orphaned navy suit jacket, paper clip is pretty much spot on. Once you're familiar with fabrics that'll help too, since most blazers are made from different material (usually a rougher weave) than suits.


Hope it helps.


----------



## redmanca

playdohh22 said:


> Indeed a sack.


Thanks, I figured, but I wanted to make sure. It's a Jos. A Bank:

And thanks for the info on the suit jacket thing. What do you (all) think of this:










Sportcoat or suit jacket?

Conor


----------



## wolfhound986

Lawson said:


> What type of pants looks best with denim other than jeans? Would a medium shade of denim look decent with khaki, navy, or gray chinos? Are cords too dressy to pair with denim?


I would second the recommendation for pairing the denim shirt with khakis and corduroys. I would choose shades of tan, olive, navy.


----------



## Sartre

redmanca said:


> Thanks, I figured, but I wanted to make sure. It's a Jos. A Bank:
> 
> And thanks for the info on the suit jacket thing. What do you (all) think of this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sportcoat or suit jacket?
> 
> Conor


Unquestionably suit.


----------



## wnh

redmanca said:


> Thanks, I figured, but I wanted to make sure. It's a Jos. A Bank:
> 
> And thanks for the info on the suit jacket thing. What do you (all) think of this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sportcoat or suit jacket?
> 
> Conor


Suit jacket. So is the one you posted above.


----------



## Naval Gent

Lawson said:


> Ralph Lauren seems to prefer the jean-on-jean look, though his casual style is more urban cowboy than Trad. Oddly enough, I own a PRL denim shirt with a BD collar but not a single good pair of jeans. I suppose it could work with my navy cords or chinos and gray chinos. Bear in mind that I don't plan to ever wear the shirt in public.


No way of knowing for sure, but I'd bet that is a chambray shirt (not denim). Chambray is good cheap cotton material used for work clothes, including Navy enlisted shipboard work shirts. Denim is twill weave, but chambray is plain weave, making it much lighter. I used to get great cheap chambrays from the Sears work clothes department back in the early '80s. They'd starch up like a million bucks, and had a great short non button-down collar and patch and flap pockets. An interesting alternative to an OCBD for casual wear. Here is an LL Bean chambray:

You can tell Ralphie's shirt is of the Western style; it closes with snaps. A real cowboy, that Raphie.

Scott


----------



## AldenPyle

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Are Aldens the only shoe with those funky askew dovetailed heel insets?


AE Shells have a combo heel if thats what you mean.


----------



## playdohh22

What pair of khakis can substitute Bills Khakis, at a much lower price?

Guessing ll bean and lands end is my best bet?


----------



## Jovan

You may try J. Crew, though the pair I have I was lucky enough to find at a thrift store. I imagine the 13-inch rise isn't standard anymore on "Regular Fit" since they moved to try to appeal to the trendy young crowd.


----------



## Bob_Brooks

*Pants Question*

I was given a pair of Polo Cords with game birds on them. These are not the prospect cords but the better quality cords that Polo sells. My question is whether or not I can have the waist let out of them. They are brand new pants and I would just need a little let out.

Thanks in advance


----------



## Sartre

Bob_Brooks said:


> I was given a pair of Polo Cords with game birds on them. These are not the prospect cords but the better quality cords that Polo sells. My question is whether or not I can have the waist let out of them. They are brand new pants and I would just need a little let out.
> 
> Thanks in advance


By looking inside the seat of the trousers, at the center seam, you can see if there is enough material to be let out. If you are in doubt, take to a tailor.

tjs


----------



## RyanPatrick

Can anyone tell me the difference between J Press "Beaufort Knot" and "Burlington Knot" ties?


----------



## paper clip

Lawson said:


> I doubt many of you own denim shirts, but you might buy one if you were dating a girl who loves denim. What type of pants looks best with denim other than jeans? Would a medium shade of denim look decent with khaki, navy, or gray chinos? Are cords too dressy to pair with denim?


I own a heavier buttondown denim shirt that I bought from the GAP in 1992 when I worked there. I wear it in the fall/winter causally with khakis and outdoorsy shoes - heavy mocs or field boots.

I also own a LE lighter weight denim buttondown shirt. I'll also wear that with khakis and more causal shoes.


----------



## Joe Beamish

No idea. But I do have a Burlington Knot that I really dig. It's red with a pattern of meaningless little hexagon blue and gold thingies. I call it my "country tie". It's probably about 2.75 inches wide. Got it on eBay.



RyanPatrick said:


> Can anyone tell me the difference between J Press "Beaufort Knot" and "Burlington Knot" ties?


----------



## wessex

RyanPatrick said:


> Can anyone tell me the difference between J Press "Beaufort Knot" and "Burlington Knot" ties?


^ A very good question. I guess there is a real or percieved difference in quality - brought to you by the marketing department. FWIW, I only own and was aware of "The Burlington Knot" and they are simply awesome. I honestly don't think any tie from J. Press would be a disappointment.

Which do you think is higher on the food chain - Beaufort or Burlington?

During my last NYC Press visit, I was told that the Pressidential and Presstige distinction is going away. Perhaps a similar move for Burlington vs. Beaufort?


----------



## RyanPatrick

wessex said:


> ^ A very good question. I guess there is a real or percieved difference in quality - brought to you by the marketing department. FWIW, I only own and was aware of "The Burlington Knot" and they are simply awesome. I honestly don't think any tie from J. Press would be a disappointment.
> 
> Which do you think is higher on the food chain - Beaufort or Burlington?
> 
> During my last NYC Press visit, I was told that the Pressidential and Presstige distinction is going away. Perhaps a similar move for Burlington vs. Beaufort?


I had never seen the Beaufort Knot ties before until I came across some of my father's old clothing that I mentioned in a previous post. 
I have a few Burlington Knot ties and I honestly can't see a quality difference between them and the tie that belonged to my father. The labels are identical excluding the word "burlington" or "beaufort".

My father passed away 15 years ago so it is possible that this is a line the company did away with some time ago.


----------



## erbs

My feet are a size 10.5; what size should I get in Bean boots? 9 or 10?


----------



## Reddington

erbs said:


> My feet are a size 10.5; what size should I get in Bean boots? 9 or 10?


LL Bean's staff is well equipped to answer such questions. Give them a call at 800-441-5713.

This passage is taken from LL Bean's website: https://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ShowImportantFitInfo?categoryId=31178

*L.L.Bean Boot Fit Information*

The fit of the L.L.Bean Boot is generous to allow for insulation in cold weather.

*To wear with light or midweight socks:* If you wear a whole size, order one size down from your normal size. If you wear a half size, order one and a half sizes down.

_Example: If you wear either a 9 or a 9½, order a size 8._

*To wear with heavyweight socks:* If you wear a whole size, order your normal size. If you wear a half size, order the next whole size down.
_Example: If you wear either a 9 or a 9½, order a size 9._


----------



## ak3000

why are sacks preferred in the trad look? I am pretty trad overall, but I guess I just dont really care if my jackets are darted or not.


----------



## eagle2250

^My preference for the sack design is driven by the desire to avoid the bulked up appearance and bound-up feeling of overly padded shoulders and to achieve an easier fit (with minimum tailoring required!), accommodating a greater than average drop from chest to waist. If it looks good and feels good, it's all good!


----------



## oxford

The 3/2 thing has to do with Tradition. It is the Ivy League Look. Onnly about five per cent of the market still adhere to this look, basically being us purists. It has to do with one's honor, character and upbringing. It is not about style. Movies suck as Dead Poet's Society, Paper Chase, Chariots of Fire are good examples of this. It goes beyond that two button suit in the store these days. Our 3/2's mean more then just being clothing.


----------



## wnh

oxford said:


> The 3/2 thing has to do with Tradition. It is the Ivy League Look. Onnly about five per cent of the market still adhere to this look, basically being us purists. It has to do with one's honor, character and upbringing. It is not about style. Movies suck as Dead Poet's Society, Paper Chase, Chariots of Fire are good examples of this. It goes beyond that two button suit in the store these days. Our 3/2's mean more then just being clothing.


Meh. Ivy League wasn't 100% 3/2 sacks, though they certainly were prominent. Tradition, yes, but not absolute tradition.

I like sacks because they fit my frame better. Darted jackets have a tendency to make my shoulders look like a linebacker's, even though I'm relatively thin. Natural shoulders with minimal shaping through the waist just looks better on me. I've come to prefer the aesthetics of sack jackets as well. Darts now look like huge scars on the front of the jacket, which often interrupts a beautiful pattern. Jackets just look better without them.


----------



## Dr.Watson

*Dinner Jackets*

What is the best type of dinner jacket? I have seen several different lapel types mentioned and would like to know the difference.

A picture would be nice.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I thought "sack" strictly referred to an undarted jacket front, and that natural shoulders and 3/2 rolls, while common on sack-cut jackets, weren't i an intrinsic part of a sack jacket.

I could be wrong, but that was my impression.

I have a number of BB coats, all with soft, natural shoulders, all with 3/2 rolls and all darted. I'm not in love with the darts, but I think the cut looks better on my frame. Indeed, I think in my case a sack jacket would require _more_ tailoring to look right than a darted jacket.
Not that I'm all that picky, I look at armholes, chest fit and shoulder before I even check to see if a jacket is darted, and I think sacks look better on other with different body types.


----------



## Reddington

Dr.Watson said:


> I have seen several different lapel types mentioned and would like to know the difference.
> 
> A picture would be nice.


Peak lapel

Shawl lapel

Notch lapel


----------



## Peak and Pine

oxford said:


> The 3/2 thing has to do with Tradition. It is the Ivy League Look. Onnly about five per cent of the market still adhere to this look, basically being us purists.* It has to do with one's honor, character and upbringing. *It is not about style*.* Movies suck as Dead Poet's Society, Paper Chase, Chariots of Fire are good examples of this. It goes beyond that two button suit in the store these days. Our 3/2's mean more then just being clothing.


You're joking, right?​


----------



## Dr.Watson

Thanks Reddington. May I ask which of these is the most traditional?


----------



## Reddington

Dr.Watson said:


> Thanks Reddington. May I ask which of these is the most traditional?


Either the peak or shawl. Stay away from the notch lapel. It is not traditional.

Cheers.


----------



## wnh

Reddington said:


> Either the peak or shawl. Stay away from the notch lapel. It is not traditional.
> 
> Cheers.


Yep. I've read that if you're round in the face you might want to avoid a shawl collar, since it can accentuate the curves.


----------



## babycatcher

*AAAC BB Corporate Card*

Does anyone know if it applies to the Golden Fleece or 1818 MTM programs?

Has anyone tried these recently (I did look at some older posts)? I do not see a GF 3/2 sack....


----------



## HL Poling and Sons

Peak and Pine said:


> You're joking, right?​


Thank you. Someone needs to get a grip.


----------



## Zot!

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I thought "sack" strictly referred to an undarted jacket front, and that natural shoulders and 3/2 rolls, while common on sack-cut jackets, weren't i an intrinsic part of a sack jacket.
> 
> I could be wrong, but that was my impression.
> 
> I have a number of BB coats, all with soft, natural shoulders, all with 3/2 rolls and all darted. I'm not in love with the darts, but I think the cut looks better on my frame. Indeed, I think in my case a sack jacket would require _more_ tailoring to look right than a darted jacket.
> Not that I'm all that picky, I look at armholes, chest fit and shoulder before I even check to see if a jacket is darted, and I think sacks look better on other with different body types.


Frankly, though I do own a couple sack suits and a couple sack jackets, I'm pretty much in the above boat. I feel that dart vs. no-dart distinction is a little too overemphasized on this forum to define "trad." My personal opinion is that the natural shoulder is the component that most makes a suit look more "trad" than others, but there are a lot of other factors- single vs. side or no vents, fabric color and pattern, shirt collar, tie, etc...

When it comes to suits at least, I find that 2B darted is simply more flattering to my form.


----------



## forestcarter

Can I wear a herringborne silk/wool jacket with a pair of glencheck dark grey pants like this one posted on the thrift exchange without looking too dandyish. I like the look,but I don't know if it's too much


----------



## Zot!

^Somehow I can't see those patterns harmonizing well. I'd have to see the end result, though.


----------



## mitchmadden

I am in the process of establishing an entry level job interview wardrobe that I hope will also translate well to being part of my "first year at law school" wardrobe. I am stuck on the issue of what pair of shoes to get first and which provides the most wardrobe versatility and utility. I am looking exclusively at Aldens, and while my tradly instincts are pushing me towards the PTB in #8, a lot of things I have read in regards to job interviews and (aspiring) lawyer clothing would lead me towards favoring something like a 907. I would appreciate any insight and recommendation from the esteemed gentlemen of this forum.


----------



## Miket61

I can't believe I'm asking this...

I was reading a discussion about Aldens at Brooks Brothers, and I have to admit that I can't figure out what "LHS" stands for.

To me, it refers to a Chrysler.


----------



## eagle2250

^Leisure Hand sewn (LHS)..and, as you asked, "it refers to a Chrysler!"


----------



## Miket61

eagle2250 said:


> ^Leisure Hand sewn (LHS)..and, as you asked, "it refers to a Chrysler!"


Thanks - I never would have gotten that one. I supposed I own one pair of shoes that would fit that category.

Actually, as I wear a 13, many of them are the size of Chryslers, I meant the other definition...


----------



## Jack1425

*Winter substitute for my beloved topsiders*

Gentlemen,

I have only recently experienced a sartorial awakening and have learned much from this forum in particular. As a rather busy Police Officer & part time soldier, I jump from uniforms to pajamas most often. I enjoy how it feels to break that cycle on my off time and dress for ME. I shall keep my first question here as short and sweet as I can.

This summer I have relied heavily on my boat shoes (no socks) with jeans and chino's and have been more than happy. However, as the mercury drops I find myself looking for an everyday replacement that remains as versatile. I have a pair of mid-brown plain toe bluchers & black AE park ave's as I felt them a reasonable start to my collection.

Your thoughts? (penny loafers, wingtip bals (calf/suede) and does sock color come into play?


----------



## eagle2250

^ Jack1425: First welcome to these fora and thank you for your service to your community, as well as to your country. As to your question regarding casual shoes for the cooler months of the year, my first choice would be a pair of Alden or AE longwings in burgundy calf or perhaps #8 shell cordovan. A close second choice would be Alden LHS's. Looking forward to your future posts.


----------



## Pgolden

Many Aldens are wonderful, but I often find some of them too heavy and prefer a lighter shoe. I'd recommend the Alden Cape Cod fullstrap penny or, my favorite, for less money, the Sebago Cayman 2. And as has been mentioned, your service is much appreciated.


----------



## Jack1425

Eagle & Pgolden, thank you so much for your input and kind words. I must confess to some sensory overload with shoes and have seen many wonderful examples here. Never truly thought I would ever dote over one pair of fine shoes let alone several. 

I am drawn to a heavy wingtip in a burgundy/merlot color or dark brown, but equally drawn to penny loafers in burgundy or cord when I feel the need for a more relaxed/sleeker shoe without reaching for the captoes. The Aldens are extremely attractive and I am very satisfied with my AE Park Ave's. I was considering the Calfskin Mclean and the Walden for a laofer. Along with the aforementioned Park Ave's and my BB plain toe bluchers would make for an honest start while saving pennies (pun intended) for future upgrades. 

In the end my wife has been ultra supportive with my new sartorial direction and wonders what took me so long. I just hope one day I can actually meet friends out for drinks wearing my boat shoes, chinos and a striped oxford and not have anyone ask, "why so dressed up?" (smile)


----------



## paper clip

Jack1425 said:


> Eagle & Pgolden, thank you so much for your input and kind words. I must confess to some sensory overload with shoes and have seen many wonderful examples here. Never truly thought I would ever dote over one pair of fine shoes let alone several.
> 
> I am drawn to a heavy wingtip in a burgundy/merlot color or dark brown, but equally drawn to penny loafers in burgundy or cord when I feel the need for a more relaxed/sleeker shoe without reaching for the captoes. The Aldens are extremely attractive and I am very satisfied with my AE Park Ave's. I was considering the Calfskin Mclean and the Walden for a laofer. Along with the aforementioned Park Ave's and my BB plain toe bluchers would make for an honest start while saving pennies (pun intended) for future upgrades.
> 
> In the end my wife has been ultra supportive with my new sartorial direction and wonders what took me so long. I just hope one day I can actually meet friends out for drinks wearing my boat shoes, chinos and a striped oxford and not have anyone ask, "why so dressed up?" (smile)


Welcome, Jack. I echo the thanks for your service. Sounds you have a great eye for shoes. I think your ideas (calf McClain and Walden) sound like great fill-ins for your collection. With those two shoes, along with your Park Aves and PTBs, you seem to have all basics covered.


----------



## Jack1425

paper clip, I appreciate the support!

A final confession: While I can afford the Aldens and perhaps with some timing even a more expensive offering, I have leaned towards AE due to extremely discounted pricing. Having said that I DO find the AE's attractive and comfortable as well. Military exchange stores offer AE's online. I picked up my Park Ave's for $235 and the Mcleans come in at the same price point. The Waldens are $188 and find it very difficult at this point to look away from this option until my tastes mature. I am thinking you all would support this notion as a somewhat thrifty newbie..

Thanks Gents.. Jack


----------



## hbs midwest

Jack1425 said:


> paper clip, I appreciate the support!
> 
> A final confession: While I can afford the Aldens and perhaps with some timing even a more expensive offering, I have leaned towards AE due to extremely discounted pricing. Having said that I DO find the AE's attractive and comfortable as well. Military exchange stores offer AE's online. I picked up my Park Ave's for $235 and the Mcleans come in at the same price point. The Waldens are $188 and find it very difficult at this point to look away from this option until my tastes mature. I am thinking you all would support this notion as a somewhat thrifty newbie..
> 
> Thanks Gents.. Jack


Jack...

Thanks for your service.

I have a 16-year-old pair of AE Burgundy calf Paxton loafers (similar to the Walden)--still quite serviceable...While Alden is the marque of choice for many posters on this forum, my neighbors up in Port Washington, WI turn out a decent, respectable product, as long as you stick with the more traditional, conservative models.

Welcome to the neighborhood!:icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## Jack1425

Midwest, thanks for the thumbs-up on the AE's. I think I am on the right track with my list of shoes from the comments I have received thus far and feel I'll have a decent start to my collection. The Walden's and Mcleans (I know I keep screwing up the spelling) should serve well for their intended purpose, ie jeans, chino's and perhpas Gabs as well. As soon as I get a free moment I'll be placing an order for them both. 

Thanks again to everyone for your help and patience. With shoes checked off I can move on to other thoughts.. I think the "Trad" forums are my new home.. 

Be Safe, Jack


----------



## paper clip

Jack1425 said:


> paper clip, I appreciate the support!
> 
> A final confession: While I can afford the Aldens and perhaps with some timing even a more expensive offering, I have leaned towards AE due to extremely discounted pricing. Having said that I DO find the AE's attractive and comfortable as well. Military exchange stores offer AE's online. I picked up my Park Ave's for $235 and the Mcleans come in at the same price point. The Waldens are $188 and find it very difficult at this point to look away from this option until my tastes mature. I am thinking you all would support this notion as a somewhat thrifty newbie..
> 
> Thanks Gents.. Jack


Wow. That's a great deal which you well deserve. No question I'd go with the AEs at that price point.


----------



## ak3000

why are unlined penny loafers preferred to lined loafers? I like the sebago caymans II, and I dont really see a difference between those and my bass logans, except the unlined inside on the latter. Is there a reason I wouldnt want to get the lined sebagos?


----------



## Jack1425

*Tailors: Hudson Valley*

Lads,

Any insights as to reputable tailors in the Hudson Valley, NY area? I am in the Newburgh/Beacon area and have some odd sport coats and a charcoal suit in need of a little nip and tuck.

Jack


----------



## ak3000

another quickie: do bass loafers come in widths other than D and EE/EEE? for instance, E width? saw a pair marked down, but only in D, want to try to get the best fit before I buy. thanks.


----------



## forestcarter

*Pink in the winter*

If anyone has seen the fall ben silver catalog, the cover has a duke of windsor suit with a solid pink tie. I think it looks really nice, and I have both--except my suit is a flannel and usually don't wear it until it gets cold.

I generally avoid pink after labor day, but I think others have said it's OK year round. any thoughts


----------



## Reddington

forestcarter said:


> If anyone has seen the fall ben silver catalog, the cover has a duke of windsor suit with a solid pink tie. I think it looks really nice, and I have both--except my suit is a flannel and usually don't wear it until it gets cold.
> 
> I generally avoid pink after labor day, but I think others have said it's OK year round. any thoughts


Yes, that suit w/ a pink tie looks terrific. Pink OCBDs or ties are great for year-round wearing. Wear and enjoy.

Cheers.


----------



## anglophile23

I'm wearing a pink OCBD right now.


----------



## kentucky gentleman in m

*Image??*

Quick question.....having trouble getting an image into a post. Looked in the FAQ, but there is no "manage attachments" button for me to click. When I click "upload image" the only option is a URL. Any way to upload one from my hardrive?

Thanks for the help.

mam


----------



## playdohh22

anglophile23 said:


> I'm wearing a pink OCBD right now.


i am wore a blue OCBD today.











kentucky gentleman in miami said:


> Quick question.....having trouble getting an image into a post. Looked in the FAQ, but there is no "manage attachments" button for me to click. When I click "upload image" the only option is a URL. Any way to upload one from my hardrive?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> mam


i don't believe you can do that.


----------



## nerdykarim

kentucky gentleman in miami said:


> Quick question.....having trouble getting an image into a post. Looked in the FAQ, but there is no "manage attachments" button for me to click. When I click "upload image" the only option is a URL. Any way to upload one from my hardrive?
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> mam


You can use an image hosting server. I use tinypic.com.
After you upload the picture to tinypic.com, copy and paste the link that says "*IMG Code for Forums & Message Boards*" into your message and your picture will appear.

You'll want to do any resizing or touching up before you upload to the web.


----------



## playdohh22

i thought you meant directly from your hardrive. the way nerdykarim mentioned would do it. i use photobucket, but there are many other free photo hosting sites out there.


----------



## J Simulcik

playdohh22 said:


> i thought you meant directly from your hardrive. the way nerdykarim mentioned would do it. i use photobucket, but there are many other free photo hosting sites out there.


+1, and photobucket lets you do all kinds of things to already-uploaded photos.


----------



## Jack1425

anglophile23 said:


> I'm wearing a pink OCBD right now.


I'm still working up to wearing a pink OCBD.. They do look great...


----------



## kcas

*Siegfried and Tristan Farnon; style and tweeds?*

Gentlemen,

I am a newbie to this forum, and if fact I only very recently discovered it. Regrettably so, for I find many interesting tips and much valuable information here. I look forward to many enjoyable visits in the future.

However, I have a question for you, and perhaps you can answer: From reviewing the old TV-series "All Creatures .....", I could not help being very impressed with the stylish, yet comfortable look of Siegfried and Tristan Farnon, the imaginary english vets of James Herriots novels of the Yorkshire dales.

Can anyone tell me in which style, from what tailor and which tweeds their clothes can possibly be? Of course, during the years of production they changed their clothes many times, but any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I can think of some alternatives myself, but any suggestions would be most welcome. :icon_smile:

kcas 
Oslo, Norway

See enclosed photos (excuse the semi-exposed fly)

and Siegfried posing with his favorite whippet. (excuse the malplaced paw) :icon_smile_big:


----------



## eagle2250

Jack1425 said:


> I'm still working up to wearing a pink OCBD.. They do look great...


Don't make the mistake I did. I was 57 and retired before I got up the nerve to purchase and wear my first pink OCBD...but, the color does seem to go well with a few age lines and a very short cut on a head of grey! Take the plunge...and have a great day!


----------



## hbs midwest

eagle2250 said:


> Don't make the mistake I did. I was 57 and retired before I got up the nerve to purchase and wear my first pink OCBD...but, the color does seem to go well with a few age lines and a very short cut on a head of grey! Take the plunge...and have a great day!


Don't wait--take the Pink Plunge now!

I've been a pink OCBD wearer since the mid-60s (college)--currently have 4 BB pinks in the closet. What's there not to love?

Purchase--Wear--Enjoy!:icon_smile_big:

hbs


----------



## paper clip

ak3000 said:


> why are unlined penny loafers preferred to lined loafers? I like the sebago caymans II, and I dont really see a difference between those and my bass logans, except the unlined inside on the latter. Is there a reason I wouldnt want to get the lined sebagos?


My personal preference is to wear lined loafers with socks and unlined shoes without socks - wearing leather lined shoes without socks can lead to premature deterioration of the lining due to unchecked sweat from your feet. Unlined leather shoes breathe better for barefoot wear and have no lining to breakdown from sweat.

Also, on the whole, YMMV, lined shoes retain their shape a bit better than unlined shoes because they have more leather/structure inside the shoe to hold its shape.


----------



## Dr.Watson

In the pictures above, what is the proper name of the hat the fellow is wearing?


----------



## Duck

I believe it is a walking hat


----------



## stfu

kcas said:


> and Siegfried posing with his favorite whippet. (excuse the malplaced paw) :icon_smile_big:


And the reversed image! :icon_smile:


----------



## eagle2250

ak3000 said:


> another quickie: do bass loafers come in widths other than D and EE/EEE? for instance, E width? saw a pair marked down, but only in D, want to try to get the best fit before I buy. thanks.


I believe they do. I have seen Bass shoes in E and EE widths in the stores but, when shopping online sources, the sizing options do seem a bit more restricted. Good luck in your hunt!


----------



## Jack1425

eagle2250 said:


> Don't make the mistake I did. I was 57 and retired before I got up the nerve to purchase and wear my first pink OCBD...but, the color does seem to go well with a few age lines and a very short cut on a head of grey! Take the plunge...and have a great day!


Do you feel pink more of a summer color or winter as well? Perhaps with mid grey gaberdines or darker flannels? Expanding my odd jacket collection and currently have 1-Navy BB blazer, 1 Camel hair BB sport coat (tan) and 1-Cotton BR Charcoal w/light pinstripes that is far from trad but looks very nice on me. These are my winter choices for now to go over any shirt/pant combo.

Jack


----------



## hbs midwest

Jack1425 said:


> Do you feel pink more of a summer color or winter as well? Perhaps with mid grey gaberdines or darker flannels? Expanding my odd jacket collection and currently have 1-Navy BB blazer, 1 Camel hair BB sport coat (tan) and 1-Cotton BR Charcoal w/light pinstripes that is far from trad but looks very nice on me. These are my winter choices for now to go over any shirt/pant combo.
> 
> Jack


For a shirt color--make it year-round...
Pink will most dinfinitely work with both camel and navy (try accenting with a touch of hunter green in the tie or pocket square).

Enjoy! :icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## eagle2250

^+1. I have also worn my pink OCBD with a charcoal suit (not a work situation but rather, attending Sunday services) and recieved several (well OK, just two) compliments on my attire, on the first occassion of my doing so.


----------



## Fortinbrass

What would be the most suitable shade of brown in a shoe to go with this shade of khaki?


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ Any brown that provides sufficient contrast in tone. Pretty much anything darker, basically.


----------



## EastVillageTrad

What is the difference between a Barbour - Border and Northumbria jackets?


----------



## Naval Gent

^The Border is made up of "Mid Weight" cloth, the Northumbria is heavy weight. I think the Border only has patch pockets, but the Northumbria has handwarmer pockets and a game pocket, according to what I read. 

I really like the handwarmer pockets, and even the game pockets come in handy sometimes to carry a newspaper, a scarf you decide you don't need, small purchases, etc.

Scott


----------



## ds23pallas

^ Every Border jacket that I have ever seen has had the handwarmer pockets, although I must admit I haven't looked at current versions for a while. Also, the Northumbria has a wool lining for greater warmth, whereas the Border has the cotton lining, like the Beaufort. Again, I go by memory from when I last looked at the lineup in Europe a couple of years ago.


----------



## tonylumpkin

Double breasted blazers. Trad? 6/2? 4/1? Peak lapels? What features disqualify a double breasted blazer from being trad, or are DBs non-trad in and of themselves?


----------



## Joe Beamish

I like double-breasted blazers, not that I'm sure whether I could ever pull one off myself for the next couple decades. They seem especially British to me -- and whether that makes them more or less "trad" depends on your definition of the term.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

*Best Loafers?*

Good afternoon. This is my first post on this site, although I put together an excellent getup for my wedding by lurking on here.

My question is about brown loafers. I see a lot of support for the Alden LHS. What last are they on?

Although I love Alden, I think I would prefer something more low profile, like the BB lightweight calfskin, although I'm reluctant to purchase a shoe like that without promise of restoration.


----------



## Pgolden

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Good afternoon. This is my first post on this site, although I put together an excellent getup for my wedding by lurking on here.
> 
> My question is about brown loafers. I see a lot of support for the Alden LHS. What last are they on?
> 
> Although I love Alden, I think I would prefer something more low profile, like the BB lightweight calfskin, although I'm reluctant to purchase a shoe like that without promise of restoration.


Save yourself some money and buy the Sebago Cayman II. According to at least one forum member, Sebago manufactures the BB calfskin. You might double check it, but I own the Cayman and have seen the BB and they are unusually similar.


----------



## AlanC

tonylumpkin said:


> Double breasted blazers. Trad? 6/2? 4/1? Peak lapels? What features disqualify a double breasted blazer from being trad, or are DBs non-trad in and of themselves?


I don't know if they're Trad (although I'd think they are), but they're certainly classic. I love them.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

Pgolden said:


> Save yourself some money and buy the Sebago Cayman II. According to at least one forum member, Sebago manufactures the BB calfskin. You might double check it, but I own the Cayman and have seen the BB and they are unusually similar.


Thanks for the reply; the Sebagos look good, but this is more what I was after: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...59279&Parent_Id=522&default_color=Antique-tan


----------



## wnh

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Thanks for the reply; the Sebagos look good, but this is more what I was after: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...59279&Parent_Id=522&default_color=Antique-tan


In that case, I'd go for the Alden 684 pennies. (The ones you linked look far too Italian for my taste.) BB used to offer their version, calling it the "low vamp" penny, but they don't seem to have them on their website now. You might contact your local BB and ask if they can hunt down a pair for you.


----------



## White Birch

*Outerwear Advice*

Hi I recently moved to D.C and the climate here is a significant adjustment.

When the weather was extremely cold or it was pouring back in Atlanta, I would simply walk inside.

Right now I have some Tweed Sports Coats, Some Patagonia Snap-T Fleeces, a Patagonia R4 Fleece(Heaviest Fleece/Windproof), and a G9 that I throw over my oxford and I'm good to go. The Temp hasn't gotten below 45F and these items are doing well by themselves. Although the R4 can hold up to 35F by itself the Lady there said.

My questions are as follows.

Can I wear my G9 over my sports coats?

Do you suggest I get a wool Duffle Coat? and can the Duffle Coat be worn over my g9 or a fleece? or just simply over my oxford shirt? how warm is it?

A man at O'Connell's suggested I get a Barbour Beufort. How does layering a Beufort go? If I wear it just over an oxford he said it will hold up from 35F.
Can I wear a sweater under it? can it be put over a sports coat?

What about the press wool/tweed cotton reversible coat? where does that fall into. I'm sure it can be put over a sports coat or just a shirt or just a sweater. can I wear a g9 under it? what temperature will it get me through.

I'm really clueless on the subject of outerwear, some help would be appreciated.


----------



## Jack1425

*Hickey Freeman*

Gents,

Not sure if I had posted this yet but am anxiously awaiting the UPS guy with a HF broadcloth shirt, spread collar and french cuffs. I have stuck almost primarily with BB shirts for their fit but could not get the HF shirt offerings out of my mind. Hope I am satisfied. Took the plunge from HF's military site for $128 so the price point is on par with BB I think..

Just sharing,

J-


----------



## playdohh22

WB- G9 _over_ sports coats?

i have a difficult time as it is already, fitting a sweater and shirt under my G9.


----------



## Moose Maclennan

When it get's cold, you will get resourceful!

Couple of thoughts FWTW:
A G9 is far too short to wear over a tailored jacket. And it is not warm.
The traditional G9 should be plenty roomy. I've been wearing a thick Norwegian sweater under mine lately.
Waxed cotton jackets are horrible and stiff in the extreme cold.


----------



## Pgolden

White Birch said:


> Hi I recently moved to D.C and the climate here is a significant adjustment.
> 
> When the weather was extremely cold or it was pouring back in Atlanta, I would simply walk inside.
> 
> Right now I have some Tweed Sports Coats, Some Patagonia Snap-T Fleeces, a Patagonia R4 Fleece(Heaviest Fleece/Windproof), and a G9 that I throw over my oxford and I'm good to go. The Temp hasn't gotten below 45F and these items are doing well by themselves. Although the R4 can hold up to 35F by itself the Lady there said.
> 
> My questions are as follows.
> 
> Can I wear my G9 over my sports coats?
> 
> Do you suggest I get a wool Duffle Coat? and can the Duffle Coat be worn over my g9 or a fleece? or just simply over my oxford shirt? how warm is it?
> 
> A man at O'Connell's suggested I get a Barbour Beufort. How does layering a Beufort go? If I wear it just over an oxford he said it will hold up from 35F.
> Can I wear a sweater under it? can it be put over a sports coat?
> 
> What about the press wool/tweed cotton reversible coat? where does that fall into. I'm sure it can be put over a sports coat or just a shirt or just a sweater. can I wear a g9 under it? what temperature will it get me through.
> 
> I'm really clueless on the subject of outerwear, some help would be appreciated.


Beaufort is highly recommended. You can layer or un-layer under them depending on the temp. I've been in NYC with the windchill at zero and worn my Beaufort over a Harris tweed jacket and cashmere V-neck, and been perfectly warm because if you button up a Beaufort the wind stays out. BTW: I was in DC last Feb and wore my Beaufort over a suit and I was warm and dry. They are great jackets; go try one on and see if you like it.


----------



## White Birch

*Thx*

A Beaufort would be a good idea, Thanks.

So will this carry me through winter in D.C

G9 Lined 
Tweed Sports Coats
Beaufort
DB Camel
A Mix of Sweaters for Layering

I also would like a Wool Full Length Duffle Coat and a Khaki Wool/Tweed Cotton Reversible

Would those two be a good idea? can I wear them through winter and stay warm? With a Viyella Shirt, and a Sweater, or sans sweater and just a sports coat.


----------



## Marcus Brody

White Birch said:


> A Beaufort would be a good idea, Thanks.
> 
> So will this carry me through winter in D.C
> 
> G9 Lined
> Tweed Sports Coats
> Beaufort
> DB Camel
> A Mix of Sweaters for Layering
> 
> I also would like a Wool Full Length Duffle Coat and a Khaki Wool/Tweed Cotton Reversible
> 
> Would those two be a good idea? can I wear them through winter and stay warm? With a Viyella Shirt, and a Sweater, or sans sweater and just a sports coat.


It actually gets pretty cold in the winter in DC - many days in late January-February start in the teens and spend much of their time in the 20s. When going to work I would wear either a book overcoat with gloves, a scarf and a cashmere hat or a thicker wool/insulated Banana Republic jacket with the same accessories. I'd also usually wear boots and take my shoes into work, even when there wasn't snow on the ground. Occasionally, I'd even wear long underwear.

I think you'll want a warmer coat than you have at the moment, though it depends on how much you're going to be outside (I lived in a neighborhood that wasn't very Metro accessible so I spent a lot of cold mornings outside waiting for the bus).


----------



## pt10023

wnh said:


> In that case, I'd go for the Alden 684 pennies. (The ones you linked look far too Italian for my taste.) BB used to offer their version, calling it the "low vamp" penny, but they don't seem to have them on their website now. You might contact your local BB and ask if they can hunt down a pair for you.


They do still have these at the stores - just bought a pair in black calf. However, they do seem to be running low on their stock (there were apparently only 2 in NYC in a 9 1/2), which makes me think they may not be carrying the style for much longer - at least in calf. One may have to act quickly in order to purchase a pair.


----------



## WingtipTom

Are these Aldens shell cordovan? From the creasing, or lack thereof, I'm guessing yes, but just want to be sure.


----------



## rgrpark

can a tailor make a tie skinnier? I am very slim and the standard 4" wide ties appear unproportionally large to my body. I am thinking of having them reduced to about 3.5" width. can a tailor do this?


----------



## hbs midwest

rgrpark said:


> can a tailor make a tie skinnier? I am very slim and the standard 4" wide ties appear unproportionally large to my body. I am thinking of having them reduced to about 3.5" width. can a tailor do this?


There have been several threads dealing with this issue; Check out TieCrafters in NYC...they seem to have a decent track record for this process.

Good luck.:icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## stfu

*346 blazer question*

Not my picture, but, is this 346 the good kind or not so good kind?


----------



## heimskringla

I don't see any darts.


----------



## wnh

Good kind.

The bad kind are newer and (usually? always?) have a blue tag under an inside pocket that says "346" or "Brooks Brothers 346" or something similar.


----------



## stfu

heimskringla said:


> I don't see any darts.


No, me neither, but I was under the impression there were material and quality issues as well, associated with the era the 346 came from. In any case, the affirmations are good and I might pull the trigger on this one (even though it is not a 'great deal'.


----------



## mjo_1

*Press sizing?*

I plan on picking up a Press sport coat as soon as the sale hits, but I don't own any of their suits or jackets so I'm not sure how their sizing is. My chest measures 40 inches on the dot and I'm a 33 in the waist. Think I should just order a 40 or do they fit big/small?

Thanks,

Michael


----------



## Joe Beamish

stfu said:


> Not my picture, but, is this 346 the good kind or not so good kind?


I have one of the old ones like in your picture. I love it.

The cloth isn't the best (wool/poly mix). But the jacket is a perfect fit (natural shoulders, great fit all around) and lovely "trad" detailing (as in your pic).


----------



## Andy Roo

Joe Beamish said:


> I have one of the old ones like in your picture. I love it.
> 
> The cloth isn't the best (wool/poly mix). But the jacket is a perfect fit (natural shoulders, great fit all around) and lovely "trad" detailing (as in your pic).


Mine also is identical to that one: same tag, same buttons, same pocket configuration. It's a pure wool hopsack, and it fits me perfectly (I wish I could find more medium-longs.) The shoulders have *no *padding. It's a great blazer.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Did BB ever make hopsack suits?
I have a great dark grey hopsack "sportcoat" and I fear it's an orphaned suitcoat (e-blazer).


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Who made the original Barracuda G9?

was it Van Heusen? (found an "original" van Heusen Barracuda Jacket, seems a little odd).


----------



## AldenPyle

https://www.baracuta-g9.com/v3/
Baracuta is a brand name. They licensed the name to Van Heusen in the US market at some point.



Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Who made the original Barracuda G9?
> 
> was it Van Heusen? (found an "original" van Heusen Barracuda Jacket, seems a little odd).


----------



## Jack1425

*Flannel Trousers*

Gentlemen,

I am looking flannel trousers at STP, specifically the Riviera Italian Wool trousers at $119. Curious if anyone has had any experience with these. These in particular are flat front and I will be giving cuffs a go also.

Jack


----------



## Jovan

I'm quite interested too. Are they really as tapered as the ones AldenPyle wears?


----------



## Jack1425

*Flannel Trousers*



Jovan said:


> I'm quite interested too. Are they really as tapered as the ones AldenPyle wears?


Not sure if the question was rhetorical Jovan:icon_smile: but I could not say in any case if it were not. However, if the trousers wear as nice as AP's with no alteration, I would be very pleased indeed. Especially at that price point for a "thin guy".

J-


----------



## Jovan

It was not, it was directed at the people who've worn them here.


----------



## AldenPyle

Jack1425 said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> I am looking flannel trousers at STP, specifically the Riviera Italian Wool trousers at $119. Curious if anyone has had any experience with these. These in particular are flat front and I will be giving cuffs a go also.
> 
> Jack


I have a pair of these. Compared to Brooks Made in Canada flannels these are a bit lighter in weight but equally soft. (From what I can tell, Brooks no longer advertises their flannels as made in Canada, so they may be different now) Riviera are a slimmer fit type of pants; I recall they are maybe 17.5" at the cuff on a 32 which is the smallest size STP has had on these I think.

STP has a good return policy, so it might be worth taking a chance.


----------



## Jack1425

AldenPyle said:


> I have a pair of these. Compared to Brooks Made in Canada flannels these are a bit lighter in weight but equally soft. (From what I can tell, Brooks no longer advertises their flannels as made in Canada, so they may be different now) Riviera are a slimmer fit type of pants; I recall they are maybe 17.5" at the cuff on a 32 which is the smallest size STP has had on these I think.
> 
> STP has a good return policy, so it might be worth taking a chance.


Thanks AP, I think I'll pull the trigger so to speak on a pair this week. I'll order a 34 as my waist fluctuates between a 33 & 34 depending on where my training cycle is.. On rare occasions I flirt with a 32 waist but that seems unlikely as the holidays approach.. :icon_smile_big:

Jack


----------



## Scrumhalf

This is not strictly a trad question, but:

Is a pindot tie too dressy for a b/w herringbone or brown donegal tweed jacket? I just picked up a couple of these from BB and am looking to get a few ties to go with them. Something tells me that pindots are better suited for suits and I should stick to rep striped ties for a slightly more formal presentation and wool knits for a more informal one. Advice appreciated!!


----------



## Sartre

^ I don't think there is anything wrong with dots per se, but you want to be careful that if the tweed pattern is bold then you don't have teeny tiny pindots that are overwhelmed by the pattern of the jacket.


----------



## Scrumhalf

Thanks! The pattern on the jackets is really subtle (they are the ones pictured below) that I just picked up after alterations.


----------



## Jack1425

Not sure if this is an odd question or not but here goes..

Thoughts on switching the brass "brooks" buttons on my Navy Blazer out for the Brass "EGA" buttons off of my ever aging Marine Dress Blue Tunic.. My current blazer is nice but not the 3/2 Sack I hope to eventually end up with and figured that a touch of personalization would be interesting..

Jack


----------



## Jack1425

Scrumhalf said:


> Thanks! The pattern on the jackets is really subtle (they are the ones pictured below) that I just picked up after alterations.


Scrum, loving the Donegal Tweed and wished that I picked it up during the 25% off sale. Alas, Rome was not built in a day..

Well Done,

Jack


----------



## eagle2250

Jack1425 said:


> Not sure if this is an odd question or not but here goes..
> 
> Thoughts on switching the brass "brooks" buttons on my Navy Blazer out for the Brass "EGA" buttons off of my ever aging Marine Dress Blue Tunic.. My current blazer is nice but not the 3/2 Sack I hope to eventually end up with and figured that a touch of personalization would be interesting..
> 
> Jack


Not odd at all. Actually, it seems a rather nice way of commemorating your service in the USMC. A while back, another member mentioned doing the same thing...I believe it was "Sledge".


----------



## Jack1425

eagle2250 said:


> Not odd at all. Actually, it seems a rather nice way of commemorating your service in the USMC. A while back, another member mentioned doing the same thing...I believe it was "Sledge".


Eagle, thank you sir.. I think I will have that done and post a pic of the blazer when finished. I'm not sure if sewing your own buttons is necessarily Trad, but If in fact it is I will have my wife do the work and claim the credit.:icon_smile_big:


----------



## Danny

Jack1425 said:


> Scrum, loving the Donegal Tweed and wished that I picked it up during the 25% off sale. Alas, Rome was not built in a day..
> 
> Well Done,
> 
> Jack


Jack you can get it during the Dec 26th 40% sale.


----------



## Jack1425

Even better Danny, thanks!!


----------



## Scrumhalf

What? There's a 40% off sale on Dec 26? :icon_headagainstwal

Oh well, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, I suppose...


----------



## ComboOrgan

I picked up a wool tie at a thrift store, and I'd like to give it a wash to clear any dander or whatever. Is it ok to soak it and hang dry?
What is the best way to handle this short of drycleaning?
I'd like to avoid drycleaning, as this is a 99 cent purchase, and don't like spending more on the cleaning than on the item - but if that's the only way to clean it, then so be it.


----------



## Reddington

ComboOrgan said:


> I picked up a wool tie at a thrift store, and I'd like to give it a wash to clear any dander or whatever. Is it ok to soak it and hang dry?
> What is the best way to handle this short of drycleaning?
> I'd like to avoid drycleaning, as this is a 99 cent purchase, and don't like spending more on the cleaning than on the item - but if that's the only way to clean it, then so be it.


Dry cleaning ties usually costs about $5. Also, it's the preferred method of cleaning a tie. So, you may want to consider it. However, if you decide to wash, only hand-wash it and then lay it flat to dry. Of course it will probably loose its shape and be very wrinkled, which means you'll have to iron it. If you really like the tie, go with dry cleaning and be done with it.

Good luck.


----------



## boatshoe

*Orvis sizes*

What is the deal with Orvis and their selection of blazer sizes? From the website it seems that they only carry even numbered sizes (eg 38, 40, 42). Has this always been the case? Is there a reason behind this? Perhaps a conspiracy to make us odd-sized blazer wearers look goofy?


----------



## Reddington

boatshoe said:


> What is the deal with Orvis and their selection of blazer sizes? From the website it seems that they only carry even numbered sizes (eg 38, 40, 42). Has this always been the case? Is there a reason behind this? Perhaps a conspiracy to make us odd-sized blazer wearers look goofy?


Orvis jackets run _very_ large, so size down and you should be fine. I usually wear a 41R, and I buy the Orvis 40R as it usually fits.


----------



## Jack1425

*Kentucky Trad*

I have been recently presented with a promotion opportunity which would entail relocating to the "Louisville" Kentucky area. Can anyone offer insight as to the society (Trad or otherwise) a relative new englander might be able to expect?

I have A LOT of thinking to do.. :icon_smile:

J


----------



## Reddington

Jack1425 said:


> I have been recently presented with a promotion opportunity which would entail relocating to the "Louisville" Kentucky area. Can anyone offer insight as to the society (Trad or otherwise) a relative new englander might be able to expect?
> 
> I have A LOT of thinking to do.. :icon_smile:
> 
> J


Congratulations on your promotion opportunity.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

What would one wear with black and white micro houndtooth trousers?


----------



## Jovan

Morning coat.


----------



## Danny

I have a cotton sweater and one of my cats snagged a little thread out a bit...is it ok to snip it off or is that a really bad idea? Should I wait and take it to a tailor to try and tuck it back in somehow?

Danny


----------



## Danny

Scrumhalf said:


> What? There's a 40% off sale on Dec 26? :icon_headagainstwal
> 
> Oh well, a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, I suppose...


I wouldn't feel bad...because there's no guarantee they will have it in stock by then...if you enjoy it and got it at 25% off, then you did very well.


----------



## eagle2250

Danny said:


> I have a cotton sweater and one of my cats snagged a little thread out a bit...is it ok to snip it off or is that a really bad idea? Should I wait and take it to a tailor to try and tuck it back in somehow?
> 
> Danny


Don't cut it off...else a small hole will appear and eventually develop into a larger one! My wife does something where she pulls the threads back in to place from the inside of the sweater. I seem to be all thumbs, when it comes to that sort of thing. In any event, good luck!


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

*Basic Pocket Square Guidelines*

Good morning. I've never worn a pocket square, for a variety of reasons (environment, age, &c.), but would like to start. Could someone point me to some basic guidelines and recommend a particular brand?

Thank you.


----------



## wnh

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Good morning. I've never worn a pocket square, for a variety of reasons (environment, age, &c.), but would like to start. Could someone point me to some basic guidelines and recommend a particular brand?
> 
> Thank you.


I'd start with something cheap, in the event that you don't like it once you start. You probably don't want to drop $50 each on a few squares only to never wear them. Try buying a package of white cotton squares (probably labeled "handkerchiefs") from your local megamart, do a TV-fold (nothing more than a rectangle), and stick one in your pocket. Or do the J. Press fold for a little more visual interest.


----------



## wannaB1L

*Tie Bar*

does the metal bar that clips onto a tie mark, indent or damage the silk? I like the way the bar looks but I like my ties more.

Thank You


----------



## wannaB1L

*waits for quick answer*


----------



## P Hudson

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> What would one wear with black and white micro houndtooth trousers?


Since, if the pattern is small, they will usually just appear as gray, I'd try them with a white or blue ocbd and a navy jacket (or even a navy polo for casual wear). I'd also try them with a medium brown tweed jacket, but I think that would only work if the jacket had some reddish tint in it. I'm assuming you don't have a burgundy jacket, which could look great or could make you look like a ticket taker at the theater.


----------



## lefty67

*When is it appropriate to wear Glenplaid suit*

Hi guys, I just acquired a Press glenplaid suit, and I'm wondering if it is a good fit for a formal Christmas candlelight dinner I'll be attending with the wife this weekend.

It's a midweight wool, brown tone


----------



## Jovan

wannaB1L said:


> does the metal bar that clips onto a tie mark, indent or damage the silk? I like the way the bar looks but I like my ties more.
> 
> Thank You


Not if you're careful.


----------



## Scoundrel

*I have a question...*

Is it more common for a Trad to wear a sweater vest or an odd vest styled like a suit vest, and why is one style preferred over the other? Do Trads, today, wear three piece suits? How important is the vest to the Trad?


----------



## wnh

Scoundrel said:


> Is it more common for a Trad to wear a sweater vest or an odd vest styled like a suit vest, and why is one style preferred over the other? Do Trads, today, wear three piece suits? How important is the vest to the Trad?


Odd vests are usually too British for my liking, but I've got a couple of sweater vests I wear regularly. If I wore suits, I'd occasionally wear 3-pieces in the winter.


----------



## Patrick06790

lefty67 said:


> Hi guys, I just acquired a Press glenplaid suit, and I'm wondering if it is a good fit for a formal Christmas candlelight dinner I'll be attending with the wife this weekend.
> 
> It's a midweight wool, brown tone


Don't see why not, unless formal means black tie.


----------



## lefty67

Thanks Patrick...

We've clarified, and the club made it clear that it is not a "formal" event - though some women will wear evening gowns. It's our first event as members at this club, so just wanted to get it right...


----------



## hbs midwest

Scoundrel said:


> Is it more common for a Trad to wear a sweater vest or an odd vest styled like a suit vest, and why is one style preferred over the other? Do Trads, today, wear three piece suits? How important is the vest to the Trad?


wnh has stated his preference, above...

The *dominance* of the three-piece suit is a casualty of 

economics--additional fabric and labor adds up to at least $200-$300 over a simple jacket/trouser suit;
the almost-universal presence of central heating in the workplace.
Is it Trad to still wear one? Please take a look at some of last winter's WAYW postings...the answer is a resounding *yes!*

I own a 20-year-old JAB 3-pc sack suit in charcoal Cheviot herringbone--nee to lose 20+ lbs to properly fit into it. Suits with waistcoats (fabric vests, as opposed to knit pieces) are, indeed, quite Trad, if you take into account that such was the offering of Brooks, Press, Cable Car, et al. during what is often looked upon as the unsullied Golden Age of TNSIL (Cable Car still offers the Southwick Douglas in 3-piece configuration).

I personally prefer the odd waistcoat, vs the sweater vest--it fits more easily for me under a jacket or coat...but hey, Trad doesn't equate to lockstep; try and sample, and determine what you are comfortable with.

Have a great weekend.:icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## wnh

^ I have a vintage Brooks Brothers University Shop 3-piece in a heavy gray pinstripe that I need to get altered. It was too good of a price on eBay to pass up, even though it may be a few years before I actually wear it.

For clarification, I like the look of odd vests/waistcoats, but they're not for me. I've seen some beautiful examples in tattersal that would look great paired with flannels, a blazer or tweed jacket, and any number of ties. They can look great, and can certainly fit into the trad wardrobe, but they're not something I'll likely be wearing any time soon.


----------



## Scoundrel

So the answer is sweater vests and odd vests! That's very American: leave it up to the individual. Sometimes we take free will for granted and assume it is a universal quality, when it's actually an American quality.


----------



## Zot!

*wool/silk/linen: seasonal or not?*

Wondering if the folks here who wear wool/silk/linen blended sportcoats do so whenever weather cooperates, or if it's a white shoes after Labor Day kind of thing (i.e. never in certain months).


----------



## stfu

Zot! said:


> Wondering if the folks here who wear wool/silk/linen blended sportcoats do so whenever weather cooperates, or if it's a white shoes after Labor Day kind of thing (i.e. never in certain months).


I am not the arbiter, but I let weather and function be my guide. I live in a temperate climate, and many rules simply make no sense for my circumstances.


----------



## Bob_Brooks

*Needlepoint Belts*

Are needlepoint belts a summer only accessory or are they acceptable for year round use?


----------



## Duck

I have two in lighter colors that I reserve for summer spring wear and I have one in a tan color that gets worn year round.


----------



## wnh

Bob_Brooks said:


> Are needlepoint belts a summer only accessory or are they acceptable for year round use?


Your call.

https://store.tuckerblair.com/reindeer.html

https://store.tuckerblair.com/snowmen.html


----------



## PorterSq

I'm about to pull the trigger on my first Central Watch purchase. To confirm before I do so: Timex Easy Reader = 18mm strap?


----------



## Patrick06790

Yep.

Indeedy.

(Can't just write "yep," apparently.)



PorterSq said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on my first Central Watch purchase. To confirm before I do so: Timex Easy Reader = 18mm strap?


----------



## Reddington

PorterSq said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on my first Central Watch purchase. To confirm before I do so: Timex Easy Reader = 18mm strap?


Yes, that is correct. And be forewarned.....Central Watch straps are addictive. You can't stop at just 5. :icon_smile:
Merry Christmas.


----------



## PorterSq

Thanks, Reddington. 

I'll call my bank and limit my daily spending to $30. That should keep me from getting addicted.


----------



## randomdude

I'm wondering about the seasonality of cricket sweaters. I have a gorgeous one from Polo that is white with orange and blue around the neck. It's lightweight and probably more suitable for spring/summer - but I really want to wear it to a party next week. Thoughts?

PS - I would wear it with khakis, a white or blue OCBD, and a winter-weight blazer.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

^ I'd say def. a spring/summer thing.


Brooks Brothers socks (particularly patterned and argyle):
-are they thin "Dress" (sic) socks or more supstantial casual ones?
(I ask because I like to wear thinner "dress socks with suits, and thicker casual socks with chinos etc).

Also,
How to BB's boxers fit (I.E. slim v trad fits).


----------



## anglophile23

^
My Brooks Brothers argyles are thick. They also have a tendancy to fall down around my ankles without garters.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

thanks and drat!

are we talking falling down after a month or a year?

FYI, theres some nice ones for around $7 on clearance right now.


----------



## randomdude

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> thanks and drat!
> 
> are we talking falling down after a month or a year?
> 
> FYI, theres some nice ones for around $7 on clearance right now.


The OTC argyles? Yes I saw that too, bought all 4 of them today. Looks good!


----------



## oxford

*British Warm Top Coat*

I am considering ordering the British Warm from J.Press. Does anyone know how these coats are sized. I wear a 41 reg suit/sport jacket.Thanks!


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Did LLBean stop making waxed cotton (barbour style) jackets?


----------



## maestrom

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Did LLBean stop making waxed cotton (barbour style) jackets?


Yes. There aren't any on the website anymore.


----------



## paper clip

randomdude said:


> The OTC argyles? Yes I saw that too, bought all 4 of them today. Looks good!


I bought 9 pair of the cotton nylon blend OTC argyles from clearance at the last F/F sale (worked out to about $8 or so a pair). They have been fine - they are not super casual thick, but are not dress sock thin, either - they strike me as good for business casual - wool pants or chinos with an OCBD and sweater. I have washed and dried them in the machines without any particular care and they still stay up pretty well. My oldest pair (2 months, 1x weekly wear and wash) is a slightly loose a the top, but not overly annoyingly so.


----------



## Trojan10

Couple of quick questions

-What does OCBD stand for? From the context, I've gleaned that it's probably an Oxford Button Down, but I don't know what the "C" stands for. I am about 5'9" with an athletic build so the RL custom-fit shirts seem great. What's the general consensus about their custom-fit button downs? 

-I'm looking to get a pair of shoes for use in the summer (I'm located in Southern California) Any idea where I can get the Sperry's for a cheap price in Southern California or would you guys suggest ordering a pair of Quoddy's style 600 boat shoe for ~$80?


----------



## eagle2250

^Trojan10: Welcome to the forum! Your assumption is correct regarding the OCBD acronym...the C is for cloth...Oxford Cloth Button Down. Sorry I can't recommend any specific Southern California sources for Topsiders but, see you at the Rose Bowl!
....Signed: An aging Nittany Lion


----------



## Reddington

Trojan10 said:


> -I'm looking to get a pair of shoes for use in the summer (I'm located in Southern California) Any idea where I can get the Sperry's for a cheap price in Southern California


Welcome to the forum. Try West Marine, if there is one in your area. Here's a link to WM's store locator ().


----------



## paper clip

Trojan10 said:


> I am about 5'9" with an athletic build so the RL custom-fit shirts seem great. What's the general consensus about their custom-fit button downs?


My issue with Polo OCBDs is that the collar is too small in height. You can't really fit a tie in there without it peeking out. Also, I am not a fan of any logo on the chest.


----------



## Thomas Hart

Gents, I'm not sure if this should have its own thread, but I'll try it out here.

I'd like to get a pair of shoes for my father for Christmas, currently he wears the same pair of Prada ox-bloods to work _everyday _and a pair of Mephisto venetians (or whatever you call loafers with a plain vamp (I believe this is the correct term, correct me if not) on the weekends. Clearly he needs more shoes, and of better quality. I was wondering what a good are a good pair of shoes which he could wear to work and on weekends for $400 or below?


----------



## Morrissey

Just curios, do yo unbutton the collar of your obcd before laundring?


----------



## Trojan10

eagle2250 said:


> ^Trojan10: Welcome to the forum! Your assumption is correct regarding the OCBD acronym...the C is for cloth...Oxford Cloth Button Down. Sorry I can't recommend any specific Southern California sources for Topsiders but, see you at the Rose Bowl!
> ....Signed: An aging Nittany Lion


Thanks for the help. On the topic of the Rose Bowl, I think it's going to be a better game than some are predicting...



Reddington said:


> Welcome to the forum. Try West Marine, if there is one in your area. Here's a link to WM's store locator ().


They're a little distance away, but I should be in one of those areas this Winter so I'll make sure to stop by. Thanks.


----------



## Jovan

Morissey: Unbutton every single one on a shirt before laundering.


----------



## Reddington

Morrissey said:


> Just curios, do yo unbutton the collar of your obcd before laundring?


......yes.


----------



## PorterSq

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Did LLBean stop making waxed cotton (barbour style) jackets?


They DO still have them. I was in a Bean retail store today and they had them for $189 (or was it $199) in tan, green and brown. The model is called, I believe, Town & Country.

I'd never seen a Bean waxed coat before, so I tried it on. When I tried on my normal size, it didn't fit (too small), but a size up was sort of boxey.


----------



## paper clip

Morrissey said:


> Just curios, do yo unbutton the collar of your obcd before laundring?


I unbutton *all* buttons before home or away laundering (don't forget the sleeve gauntlet buttons if your shirt has them).


----------



## Thomas Hart

Can Ferragamo ties be trad?


----------



## ProvidenceFriar

Help identifying this tartan would be very appreciated.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

What do you all think about wearing a pair of reds as holiday pants?


----------



## Reddington

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> What do you all think about wearing a pair of reds as holiday pants?


Works for me.


----------



## Naval Gent

Stuart of Bute

Interesting that this clan spells the name "Stuart" rather than "Stewart" like the rest of the clans of that ilk. I'll have look that up some day.

Scott



ProvidenceFriar said:


> Help identifying this tartan would be very appreciated.


----------



## stfu

*Mid grey pants, tan camel hair jacket*

Not sure why I am questioning this pairing when I have worn it before, but I am having trouble accepting my medium gray wool pants and a tan camel hair jacket. (OCBD in blue).

Tell me this is ok please.


----------



## boatshoe

stfu said:


> Not sure why I am questioning this pairing when I have worn it before, but I am having trouble accepting my medium gray wool pants and a tan camel hair jacket. (OCBD in blue).
> 
> Tell me this is ok please.


I wore almost exactly that today. I think it looks great. Instead of blue OCBD I wore a white blue-checked OCBD and a navy blue knit tie.


----------



## eagle2250

stfu: It is OK. I frequently wear the same combination during these colder months of the year. Is there enough of a contrast between the color of your trousers and the shade of blue in your shirt...just a thought?


----------



## stfu

Thanks gents, my fears have been assuaged. I did go with the light blue OCBD rather than the french blue. It may be that was throwing things off.


----------



## randomdude

Thoughts on this Orvis cardigan?


----------



## P Hudson

I'm not in love with that cardigan. It isn't bad, but it doesn't appeal to me. I think it may be the collar roll.


----------



## Zot!

*J. Press- no pleats?*

Do all J. Press suits come with flat front trousers? The website always mentions whether the jackets are darted or sack, but never says anything about the trousers. I'm assuming all 3b sack suits would come with flat front pants, but what about the 2b darted ones? (Oddly, the 2b darted, center vent, natural shoulder suit with flat front pants seems even harder to get ahold of these days than the 3b sack).


----------



## eagle2250

P Hudson said:


> I'm not in love with that cardigan. It isn't bad, but it doesn't appeal to me. I think it may be the collar roll.


+1 and for me, it definitely is the collar design/roll, I would like the sweater much better with a shawl collar.


----------



## paper clip

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> What do you all think about wearing a pair of reds as holiday pants?


I think it depends on how red your reds are.....IMHO the typical reds are too faded/light (pink) in color to work as holiday pants. IMHO, I like the idea of a deep, rich red or cranberry or wine for holiday pants.

Like these:










LE overstocks for $14.99!


----------



## randomdude

Is this Ebay seller selling fake J. Press ties? They look extremely fake:

https://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZandym212


----------



## Sartre

Zot! said:


> Do all J. Press suits come with flat front trousers? The website always mentions whether the jackets are darted or sack, but never says anything about the trousers. I'm assuming all 3b sack suits would come with flat front pants, but what about the 2b darted ones? (Oddly, the 2b darted, center vent, natural shoulder suit with flat front pants seems even harder to get ahold of these days than the 3b sack).


I am not 100% sure -- could be worth a call. Certainly all of the 3b models have them. Which is an issue for me because while Press's jackets are generous their flat front trousers run very tight; I am normally a 36w but have to get a 38 and have the waist taken in.


----------



## Patrick06790

randomdude said:


> Is this Ebay seller selling fake J. Press ties? They look extremely fake:
> 
> https://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZandym212


Looks like the real thing to me. I have one of those Indian silk ties - he's got a bow, I got it in standard.

Ask Desk Jockey, he'll know.


----------



## boatshoe

What was it that allowed men in the past to pierce their precious silk ties with tie pins? Fear of nuclear war? Are there any ties that won't be damaged by a tie pin, like a knit maybe?


----------



## Zot!

Sartre said:


> I am not 100% sure -- could be worth a call. Certainly all of the 3b models have them. Which is an issue for me because while Press's jackets are generous their flat front trousers run very tight; I am normally a 36w but have to get a 38 and have the waist taken in.


I've noticed that as well. It dawned on me that the model I was looking at had peak lapels (not mentioned in the website's description but obvious if you look closely at the photo), which aren't really my thing, so it's a moot point. Maybe that's why they've discounted it so steeply:


----------



## Acacian

boatshoe said:


> What was it that allowed men in the past to pierce their precious silk ties with tie pins? Fear of nuclear war? Are there any ties that won't be damaged by a tie pin, like a knit maybe?


Interestingly, I asked this exact question back in about winter *1987*, when I wrote to the GQ clothing advice column asking what I should do with a bunch of vintage tie tacks and tie bars that I inherited from my grandfather.

They actually published my question and answered succinctly and swiftly. I don't have the issue, but I remember the exact quote: "tie tacks are tacky", but the bars were good to go.

I still have the tie tacks, but haven't put them to use since then.

But I have noticed that a lot of ties back in the 40s-60s (the origins of the tie tacks in question) were wool, which would not be damaged as much from tie tacks - not knit ties, but wool cloth. They might be fine with those if you have any.


----------



## Miket61

Acacian said:


> Interestingly, I asked this exact question back in about winter *1987*, when I wrote to the GQ clothing advice column asking what I should do with a bunch of vintage tie tacks and tie bars that I inherited from my grandfather.


If it was the 30th Anniversary issue, with Timothy Dalton on the cover, I have that somewhere.

I actually bought two tie tacks around that time - a pearl stud and a black opal with an onyx ring around it. I wore them frequently, got lots of compliments, and never had a problem with my ties not recovering from the puncture.


----------



## Jovan

Does anyone know the width of Brooks Brothers boys ties?


----------



## hbs midwest

Jovan said:


> Does anyone know the width of Brooks Brothers boys ties?


My son's BB neckwear measures 3.125" across at the widest point of the apron.

Hope this helps.

hbs


----------



## Jovan

Thanks!


----------



## Miket61

mipcar said:


> Question - I want to aquire some cords (trousers) suggestions as to colours & are cords best in 100% cotton or is something else recommended?


I have a pair of navy cords, and a pair in chocolate brown that get the most wear.

I'm very confused - how old was the post I replied to? I selected the last page and read several replies to this question but now I can't find them...


----------



## Jovan

Is there anywhere I can get white leather laces for Sperry Top-Siders? I just ordered the Authentic Original in brown and think it might look good with white laces.


----------



## Topsider

Jovan said:


> Is there anywhere I can get white leather laces for Sperry Top-Siders? I just ordered the Authentic Original in brown and think it might look good with white laces.


Here's the official Sperry site for replacement laces. Didn't see white, though.

https://www.sperrytopsider.com/products/H61618.jsp


----------



## jhcam8

What's the quality of the current J.Press clothing?


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Barbour:
_Ber_-ber,or _Bar_-bore


----------



## Charles Ryder

*Weejuns*

I've been watching the forum for quite some time now, but I've only recently acquired an account. I suppose this is my first post. It's good to be here.

In any event, I've got a question about the fit of Bass Weejuns. I was attempting to buy a pair the other day, but was quite unable to find any that fit.

I normally take a 10.5. When I tried on a pair of that size they fit in the toe box but flapped about rather absurdly in the heel when I walked around in them. In order to get a pair that held my heel in the shoe correctly, I had to descend to a size 9.5, which resulted in an extremely uncomfortable fit in the front.

My foot is not, so far as I can tell, unusual in width or contour, so my question is this: is this strangely loose heel standard among Weejuns these days, or have I just found an aberration? I'd like to buy a pair, but I'm certainly not going to buy something with a tendency to fall off.

Thanks.


----------



## Jovan

Topsider said:


> Here's the official Sperry site for replacement laces. Didn't see white, though.
> 
> https://www.sperrytopsider.com/products/H61618.jsp


Already looked there. Thanks, though. I just find it weird why they'd sell all sorts of styles with white leather laces yet not sell replacement ones for them.


----------



## Patrick06790

Charles Ryder said:


> I normally take a 10.5. When I tried on a pair of that size they fit in the toe box but flapped about rather absurdly in the heel when I walked around in them. In order to get a pair that held my heel in the shoe correctly, I had to descend to a size 9.5, which resulted in an extremely uncomfortable fit in the front.
> 
> My foot is not, so far as I can tell, unusual in width or contour, so my question is this: is this strangely loose heel standard among Weejuns these days, or have I just found an aberration? I'd like to buy a pair, but I'm certainly not going to buy something with a tendency to fall off.
> 
> Thanks.


I had to go down a half size and out in width before I got a successful Weejun fit. It's a bit of a crap shoot, in my experience.


----------



## Topsider

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Barbour:
> _Ber_-ber,or _Bar_-bore


The former.


----------



## HistoryDoc

Charles Ryder said:


> I've been watching the forum for quite some time now, but I've only recently acquired an account. I suppose this is my first post. It's good to be here.
> 
> In any event, I've got a question about the fit of Bass Weejuns. I was attempting to buy a pair the other day, but was quite unable to find any that fit.
> 
> I normally take a 10.5. When I tried on a pair of that size they fit in the toe box but flapped about rather absurdly in the heel when I walked around in them. In order to get a pair that held my heel in the shoe correctly, I had to descend to a size 9.5, which resulted in an extremely uncomfortable fit in the front.
> 
> My foot is not, so far as I can tell, unusual in width or contour, so my question is this: is this strangely loose heel standard among Weejuns these days, or have I just found an aberration? I'd like to buy a pair, but I'm certainly not going to buy something with a tendency to fall off.
> 
> Thanks.


I have the same problem and the same size shoe. You can either try to find a patient salesperson at Bass (good luck) and try on everything in sight, or start shopping around for more expensive options. My guess is that you probably have a high arch, or a wide foot. It has probably never been a problem until you started looking for weejuns. That was my experience, at least. I wish I had better advice for you. Eventually, I just gave up on loafers. Sad but true.


----------



## Naval Gent

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Barbour:
> _Ber_-ber,or _Bar_-bore





Topsider said:


> The former.


I've always heard and said "barber", just like a guy who cuts hair. Merriam-Webster is in agreement, to my ear:

https://mw1.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixbar04.wav=Barbour

Cordially,

Scott


----------



## Jovan

Not all barbers are guys, though.


----------



## paper clip

Naval Gent said:


> I've always heard and said "barber", just like a guy who cuts hair. Merriam-Webster is in agreement, to my ear:
> 
> https://mw1.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?bixbar04.wav=Barbour
> 
> Cordially,
> 
> Scott


That's how I pronounce it (not that that means much - coming from a Bostonian who says "bah" to mean a drinking establishment).


----------



## wnh

paper clip said:


> That's how I pronounce it (not that that means much - coming from a Bostonian who says "bah" to mean a drinking establishment).


Reminds me of a joke that goes something like:
So this guy overhears a Bostonian talking, approaches him, and says, "Hey, can you do me a favor and say, 'I parked the car in the Harvard yard?'" The Bostonian looks at him and says, "What ah you, retahded?"

Right, so... I wonder if a general pronunciation guide would be helpful. I always read Barbour as "Bar-ber." And I've always read blucher as "bluh-cher," though I recall a thread in the fashion forum where the consensus was that the proper pronunciation was something like "bloo-cher" or "bloo-ker." I don't exactly run in circles where everyone talks about clothing, so I have no idea.

Madras: "MAD-rus," "muh-DROS"?


----------



## Jovan

I've hopefully been saying the right thing when I tell people what my RLP sport shirt is...


----------



## wnh

If you're unsure, just pronounce it "plaid."


----------



## Jovan

Pish tosh. Are you saying Floridians shouldn't know what madras is?


----------



## wnh

No, just saying that if you're unsure if you're pronouncing madras correctly, you could just simplify it by calling it plaid.


----------



## Jovan

Ohhh I could, but that would be no fun.  More people need to know about madras here. Having just looked up the pronunciation, I've been doing it right anyways.


----------



## Reddington

Main Entry: ma·dras 
Pronunciation: \ˈma-drəs; mə-ˈdras, -ˈdräs\ 
Audio pronunciation for "madras": https://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?madras01.wav=madras

Happy New Year all!


----------



## randomdude

Maus & Hoffman has some pretty good looking jackets at pretty good prices on their clearance page:



Does anyone have any experience with M & H? What is the fit like on their jackets?

I was particularly interested in this Donegal tweed, looks to be undarted, 3 patch pockets:


----------



## anglophile23

What trousers can you wear with a navy blazer, besides chinos and grey, to make the look more interesting?


----------



## Reddington

anglophile23 said:


> What trousers can you wear with a navy blazer, besides chinos and grey, to make the look more interesting?


Nantucket Reds.


----------



## Joe Beamish

You yourself are interesting, not the clothes, which only frame you.



anglophile23 said:


> What trousers can you wear with a navy blazer, besides chinos and grey, to make the look more interesting?


----------



## Reddington

anglophile23 said:


> What trousers can you wear with a navy blazer, besides chinos and grey, to make the look more interesting?


Actually, the navy blazer goes with just about anything and everything. That's why every gentleman needs at least one navy blazer.


----------



## katon

anglophile23 said:


> What trousers can you wear with a navy blazer, besides chinos and grey, to make the look more interesting?


Tartan trousers might fit the bill. If you're looking for something not quite so interesting, maybe olive chinos instead of the usual khaki?


----------



## nerdykarim

anglophile23 said:


> What trousers can you wear with a navy blazer, besides chinos and grey, to make the look more interesting?


I would think about textures--wool cav. twill, flannel, corduroy, moleskin, linen, herringbone, etc.

I don't stray far from the khaki or gray colored trousers, but I think that if you vary the texture enough, it never feels boring.


----------



## Jovan

Since I'm getting my Top-Siders tomorrow, just curious what they can be worn with without looking dorky BESIDES khakis.


----------



## clemsontiger

Jovan said:


> Since I'm getting my Top-Siders tomorrow, just curious what they can be worn with without looking dorky BESIDES khakis.


Jeans, shorts.


----------



## ConservativeFellow

How is the quality of Brooks Brothers Sports Coats? - the ones advertised as "Reg $398-548" I see they are on sale for 50% off. Would the be equivalent to the J.Press "Preclusive" line?


----------



## Jovan

clemsontiger said:


> Jeans, shorts.


I dunno, I'm afraid of looking like a soccer dad wearing jeans and boat shoes. Would the association be avoided if they were significantly dark like mine?


----------



## clemsontiger

Jovan said:


> I dunno, I'm afraid of looking like a soccer dad wearing jeans and boat shoes. Would the association be avoided if they were significantly dark like mine?


I think you'll be fine, but to be sure simply don the combination in front of a mirror post a picture.


----------



## Charles Ryder

Jovan said:


> Since I'm getting my Top-Siders tomorrow, just curious what they can be worn with without looking dorky BESIDES khakis.


As far as I'm concerned, topsiders are a shoe with a well-defined ethos but limited possibilities beyond that narrow scope. They may often be seen on the feet of those attempting to cultivate the nautical image - you know, the ones whose only ties are anchor-patterned blades from Vineyard Vines but who've never seen the coast - but this abuse of a perfectly decent shoe shouldn't discourage the tasteful from acquiring a pair.

I have owned pairs for years, but must confess that they are primarily useful for wear with shorts when the heat or languid nature of the days demand might tempt one to wear sandals. They're ideal for lying about on the porch, walking the dog, and other such leisurely pursuits. They can be worn with jeans and other casual trousers but, beyond there, one must exercise care.

Some of my acquaintances have developed the rather unfortunate habit of sporting their topsiders with khakis and a tie - sans blazer, sadly - in situations when their intent was to appear neat. It's a look that can be pulled off, but only with caution: because topsiders are constructed of a relatively soft leather, they lose their shape rather quickly and tend to look far too sloppy on occasions where formality would usually demand that a more structured shoe be worn. They start looking grubby and soft after a few months: great for the dock, perhaps, but not so great for church. Also - and I suppose this caveat depends on the size of one's feet - I have found that topsiders are best worn with pants with a relatively tapered leg opening and a relatively high break. Because the shoes are small and light, they can be comically overpowered by some of the more capaciously cut trousers that, I imagine, some of us are fond of wearing.

- Ryder


----------



## Scoundrel

I've read some posts (here) referencing jazz music. Is it true the Trad listens to jazz? Jazz is more American than rock (no contest) and it would seem to go hand in hand with a Trad's lifestyle. If the Trad listens to jazz, which artists, and from what decade(s)?


----------



## Patrick06790

ConservativeFellow said:


> How is the quality of Brooks Brothers Sports Coats? - the ones advertised as "Reg $398-548" I see they are on sale for 50% off. Would the be equivalent to the J.Press "Preclusive" line?


I don't know enough about the manufacturers to make comparisons between the lines, but if you are looking for undarted jackets Press has far more to look at.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Jovan said:


> I dunno, I'm afraid of looking like a soccer dad wearing jeans and boat shoes. Would the association be avoided if they were significantly dark like mine?


Yes.

I understand the thin line between trad and soccer dad, but you're in no danger of crossing it.

Honestly, I wear my Topsiders fairly exclusively as a spring/ summer shoe.
So mainly with shorts, khakis, and other cotton pants (or seersucker, madras, linen etc).


----------



## Jovan

Thanks for the help, guys.  Funny enough, I am planning on getting some Press khakis with a bit of highwater length and cuffs.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Let us know how you like the Press khakis. I'm thinking of doing the same.



Jovan said:


> Thanks for the help, guys.  Funny enough, I am planning on getting some Press khakis with a bit of highwater length and cuffs.


----------



## Jovan

On that note... should I go for the Press at 73.50 or these BB Clark fit ones at 49.25? How do they compare in terms of rise length, taper, etc? Thanks.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa..._Id=1379235&Parent_Id=305&default_color=Khaki


----------



## pt10023

Jovan said:


> On that note... should I go for the Press at 73.50 or these BB Clark fit ones at 49.25? How do they compare in terms of rise length, taper, etc? Thanks.
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa..._Id=1379235&Parent_Id=305&default_color=Khaki


Haven't owned Press ones, so I can't compare, but in case you decide to go with the BB ones, a salesperson told me the other day that they won't put cuffs on these pants at BB (which I thought was kind of surprising), and that you should get an additional four inches in length beyond what you normally wear if you want to have an outside tailor add cuffs.


----------



## Jovan

Thanks for the tip. They come in preset lengths, so I wasn't expecting them to have an alteration available anyways. Are you saying they don't put cuffs on flat fronts at all?


----------



## C. Sharp

*TRAD JAZZ*



Scoundrel said:


> I've read some posts (here) referencing jazz music. Is it true the Trad listens to jazz? Jazz is more American than rock (no contest) and it would seem to go hand in hand with a Trad's lifestyle. If the Trad listens to jazz, which artists, and from what decade(s)?


Hi, I am a long time reader but first time poster. I would say start here

.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

a silly question but....

Does Brooks replenish items in the sale section of their website?

I had one of those crewneck sweaters in my 'cart', but it sold ut between the time I shoe it and the time I checkedout.
Would it be something they'll re-plenish? or do I needd to call in a favor to one of my family members who lives close to BB?


----------



## rgrossicone

Jovan said:


> I dunno, I'm afraid of looking like a soccer dad wearing jeans and boat shoes. Would the association be avoided if they were significantly dark like mine?


Skinny jeans...thats what I wear em with.


----------



## bd79cc

Jovan said:


> I'm afraid of looking like a soccer dad wearing jeans and boat shoes.


Old well-faded jean help me with this.


----------



## Mikethecat

*Hem vs. Cuff*

Recently someone told me that flat front trousers are always hemmed, and only with pleats should there be a cuff. Is this true? I went back and looked at some of mine and it turns out that at least with them ones I looked at, this is true. What would be considered the official trad view on this? Or is this too insignificant to have an official trad view?


----------



## AlanC

Trad orthodoxy would say flat front & cuffed.


----------



## hbs midwest

Mikethecat said:


> Recently someone told me that flat front trousers are always hemmed, and only with pleats should there be a cuff. Is this true? I went back and looked at some of mine and it turns out that at least with them ones I looked at, this is true. What would be considered the official trad view on this? Or is this too insignificant to have an official trad view?


This appears to be an arbitrary position assumed by JAB, Brooks, and several other vendors of pre-hemmed trousers. All my plainfront trousers (I own no pleats) are cuffed--most with 1.625"-deep cuffs.:icon_smile_wink:

Seems to have been a development of the past decade.

Enjoy the weekend.

hbs


----------



## hbs midwest

AlanC said:


> Trad orthodoxy would say flat front & cuffed.


Amen to that.:icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## Beefeater

hbs midwest said:


> This appears to be an arbitrary position assumed by JAB, Brooks, and several other vendors of pre-hemmed trousers. All my plainfront trousers (I own no pleats) are cuffed--most with 1.625"-deep cuffs.:icon_smile_wink:
> 
> Seems to have been a development of the past decade.
> 
> Enjoy the weekend.
> 
> hbs


Agree completely on this. Once I _convinced_ my tailor that I wanted my flat front trousers cuffed, he obliged but wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing, as he told me no one was requesting this anymore. I guess he's glad to have the business. Now when I walk in, he knows exactly what I'm there for. I have but one pair of pleated trousers and they are a beautiful pair of Ralph Laurens that go perfectly with my houndstooth BB Blazer. It's probably the last pair I'll ever own.


----------



## TDI GUY

*LE Tailored Fit Year'rounder Dress Pants Fit*

Can anyone with experience with the LE tailored fit year'rounder wool trousers comment on their sizing?

I wear a 34 in Bills and LE khakis, but given the wool material and "tailored" fit, I wasn't sure if these might run smaller.

Any other info on the fit (rise, taper in leg, etc.) is appreciated. I have been on a quest to find a pair of wool trousers with proportions comparable to Bills M2 for under $100. Hopefully these will do the trick (but please pass along alternative suggestions).

Thanks!


----------



## ardbeg1977

*newby question*

Hi,
I know I need to suck it up and buy Andy's Encyclopedia, but in the mean time I ask these flame-bait questions:

What does 3/2 relate to?

and

What is MTM?

Thanks Much!


----------



## TMMKC

ardbeg1977 said:


> What is MTM?


Made-to-Measure


----------



## stfu

ardbeg1977 said:


> What does 3/2 relate to?


The number of buttons on a jacket / The relative position in those buttons to which the lapel rolls.

The trads here like sack cut jackets, with soft shoulders, and 3 button fronts with lapels 'rolling' to above the second button.


----------



## ardbeg1977

stfu said:


> The number of buttons on a jacket / The relative position in those buttons to which the lapel rolls.
> 
> The trads here like sack cut jackets, with soft shoulders, and 3 button fronts with lapels 'rolling' to above the second button.


Thanks St.FU and tmmkc. I''ll catch onto all this lingo some day.

Oddly I always considered the classic two-button as a more traditional piece.


----------



## randomdude

Is it OK to wear a navy tie with small white polka dots to an interview? I'd be pairing it with a white shirt, charcoal suit, black shoes. I saw the outfit in last year's Press catalog and always thought it was really sharp. But are the polka dots too much for an interview?


----------



## Patrick06790

TDI GUY said:


> Can anyone with experience with the LE tailored fit year'rounder wool trousers comment on their sizing?
> 
> I wear a 34 in Bills and LE khakis, but given the wool material and "tailored" fit, I wasn't sure if these might run smaller.
> 
> Any other info on the fit (rise, taper in leg, etc.) is appreciated. I have been on a quest to find a pair of wool trousers with proportions comparable to Bills M2 for under $100. Hopefully these will do the trick (but please pass along alternative suggestions).
> 
> Thanks!


I have a couple pairs of these as well as a few other LE "tailored fit" pants, and my conclusion is that in LEspeak, "tailored fit" means "less huge in the rear."

For those of us with little or no fanny to begin with, this is a good thing. Roughly equivalent to a Bill's M2 but very roughly.

You can always return them; LE is very good about that.


----------



## jhcam8

*navy dot interview tie - wear it!*



randomdude said:


> I saw the outfit in last year's Press catalog and always thought it was really sharp.


Yes - a very conservative look. Wear it without fear.


----------



## randomdude

How about wearing a simple, silver tie clip to a job interview?

Dandy-ish?


----------



## eagle2250

^^I would not conclude so but, there are a few that might!


----------



## jhcam8

randomdude said:


> How about wearing a simple, silver tie clip to a job interview?
> 
> Dandy-ish?


Unless you know alot about the interviewer's likes and tastes I'd err on the side of caution - no clip or clunky watches or extra jewelry (piercings, rings, skulls, grills, etc). Probably no pocket square either.

I guess it depends on the company and industry - but as a general rule: less is better. Your clothing shouldn't distract anyone - just look neat, clean, and ready. blah, blah, blah.....


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

*AE Westbrook - thoughts?*

I just ebayed a pair of AE Westbrooks. The pictures look great, but I can't find anything about them online. Does anyone own a pair, and if so, how do you like them?


----------



## TDI GUY

Patrick06790 said:


> I have a couple pairs of these as well as a few other LE "tailored fit" pants, and my conclusion is that in LEspeak, "tailored fit" means "less huge in the rear."
> 
> For those of us with little or no fanny to begin with, this is a good thing. Roughly equivalent to a Bill's M2 but very roughly.
> 
> You can always return them; LE is very good about that.


Thanks for the info, Patrick. Would you say they run true to size in the waist (i.e., if I wear a 34 in Bills, should I order 34 in these)?


----------



## Tonyp

randomdude said:


> How about wearing a simple, silver tie clip to a job interview?
> 
> Dandy-ish?


No tie clip. Keep it simple and classic. You could wear a white cotton PS folded rather than TV or pointed.

Save the tie clips, pins etc. for when after you get the job and they catch on to your style.


----------



## CBtoNYC

*polka dots for interview? No.*



randomdude said:


> Is it OK to wear a navy tie with small white polka dots to an interview? I'd be pairing it with a white shirt, charcoal suit, black shoes. I saw the outfit in last year's Press catalog and always thought it was really sharp. But are the polka dots too much for an interview?


If you're asking the question, you've got your answer, which is to play it safe with solids or stripes. Why second-guess yourself afterward? Get the job, then sport the dots, which to me have a bit of a foppish air... I wear them myself, but wouldn't to an interview.


----------



## heimskringla

Plain, striped, or perhaps paisley ties to an interview, IMO.


----------



## heimskringla

About how long does it take to break in Bean rustic loafers?


----------



## etown883

*Cuff your chinos?*

Hello all, new to the forum, but I'm a young guy you enjoys the Trad style, so I hope I can carry the torch for the younger generation. Is it proper to cuff your chinos if they do not have the center crease of a dress chino or suit trouser? The 1-3/4" cuff on lets say a LE or Bill's more casual chino seems a bit out of place to me. Thoughts?

Second, how many of your need to go down a half a size in Allen Edmonds when you buy loafers? I recently got a pair of Randolphs off ebay in my normal size, only to find them to be a bit too big, some heel slipage, etc.


----------



## Moose Maclennan

etown883 said:


> ... Is it proper to cuff your chinos if they do not have the center crease of a dress chino or suit trouser? The 1-3/4" cuff on lets say a LE or Bill's more casual chino seems a bit out of place to me. Thoughts?...


Thoughts:
Baggier, heavier chinos benefit from a proper cuff, front crease or not. It looks more balanced.
Slimmer cut chinos can do without and look good. I usually roll a cuff.


----------



## P Hudson

Patrick06790 said:


> I have a couple pairs of these as well as a few other LE "tailored fit" pants, and my conclusion is that in LEspeak, "tailored fit" means "less huge in the rear."
> 
> For those of us with little or no fanny to begin with, this is a good thing. Roughly equivalent to a Bill's M2 but very roughly.
> 
> You can always return them; LE is very good about that.


Way off topic here, but once you leave the US, fanny doesn't mean the same thing. May I advise that you use a different term if in the UK or Australia.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

*Suit jacket too long?*

I wore an old suit today, bought before I knew anything about clothes, and I'm worried it's a bit too long. With my arms and hands by my side, it falls to the end of my thumb. Is it worth shortening it up to the knuckle of the thumb? Now that I've noticed it, I'm having trouble ignoring it, but I'm a perfectionist.


----------



## Jovan

When it's that long? No. Give it to someone taller than you.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

Jovan said:


> When it's that long? No. Give it to someone taller than you.


Not what I was looking for.


----------



## wnh

^ There's really no hard and fast rule, so it's hard to say. Some guidelines (and only guidelines--don't treat them like rules):

- The jacket should cover the bottom curve of your rear.
- The distance from the top of the jacket to the bottom of the jacket should be half the distance from the top of the jacket to the floor.
- With your arms at your sides, you should be able to curl your fingers around the bottom of the jacket.


My opinion is that these are just guidelines meant to get you near the target, but not one of them is foolproof. It really comes down to what you prefer, and what you think looks best. A good bet: flip through the WAYW thread and find full-length suit pictures to develop an eye for what looks right. 

Ultimately, your own body's proportions should be the governing factor, not what the 'average' male needs. Maybe you've got ape-like arms, and your jacket will only come to the base of your thumb. Or maybe you've got really short arms, and your jacket will fall to the tips of your fingers. Maybe you've got a long torso and short legs, and your jacket won't reach the curve of your rear. Or maybe you've got a short torso and long legs, and your jacket will reach far past the curve in your rear. You get the idea.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

wnh said:


> ^ There's really no hard and fast rule, so it's hard to say. Some guidelines (and only guidelines--don't treat them like rules):
> 
> - The jacket should cover the bottom curve of your rear.
> - The distance from the top of the jacket to the bottom of the jacket should be half the distance from the top of the jacket to the floor.
> - With your arms at your sides, you should be able to curl your fingers around the bottom of the jacket.
> 
> My opinion is that these are just guidelines meant to get you near the target, but not one of them is foolproof. It really comes down to what you prefer, and what you think looks best. A good bet: flip through the WAYW thread and find full-length suit pictures to develop an eye for what looks right.
> 
> Ultimately, your own body's proportions should be the governing factor, not what the 'average' male needs. Maybe you've got ape-like arms, and your jacket will only come to the base of your thumb. Or maybe you've got really short arms, and your jacket will fall to the tips of your fingers. Maybe you've got a long torso and short legs, and your jacket won't reach the curve of your rear. Or maybe you've got a short torso and long legs, and your jacket will reach far past the curve in your rear. You get the idea.


Thank you.


----------



## nerdykarim

Pleasant McIvor said:


> I wore an old suit today, bought before I knew anything about clothes, and I'm worried it's a bit too long. With my arms and hands by my side, it falls to the end of my thumb. Is it worth shortening it up to the knuckle of the thumb? Now that I've noticed it, I'm having trouble ignoring it, but I'm a perfectionist.


I've tried this before, and it didn't really work the way I intended it.

I had a blazer shortened by 3/4 of an inch or so and now whenever I wear it, I think that the button stance is a little off and that the pockets are too low. Just something to think about if you haven't considered all of the implications of shortening a jacket.


----------



## Jovan

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Not what I was looking for.


You asked for an opinion. I gave it. It technically was what you were looking for.

When the sleeves are that long on you, there's no sense altering it since it will look a bit weird and out of proportion anyway.


----------



## Joe Beamish

etown883 said:


> ...Is it proper to cuff your chinos if they do not have the center crease of a dress chino or suit trouser? The 1-3/4" cuff on lets say a LE or Bill's more casual chino seems a bit out of place to me. Thoughts?...


I'm in the either/or camp. Khakis can go either way with equal happiness, depending on your preference. I don't think cuffs are out of place on any khakis whatsoever, nor are cuffs a prerequisite in the scheme of khaki/chino enjoyment. Wool pants, though, I strongly prefer to be cuffed.


----------



## P Hudson

*shoulder width on sacks vs non-sacks*

If I buy a jacket in my size in a standard off the shelf cut, I get a 38R with 18-18.5 inch shoulders. My TNSIL sacks seem to be closer to 17.5-18 inch shoulders, and fit much more snugly through the upper arms and all around the shoulder (circumference, not width). Is this a common experience, that is, are sacks with their natural shoulders meant to be snugger throughout (obviously excluding the chest and waist)?

Part 2: it seems like my heavy tweed sacks are slightly broader in the shoulder than my lighter weight ones. Is this just because of the extra bulk of the fabric, or is something more profound going on?


----------



## cravat

*Club Collars*

After watching a fair amount of Mad Men recently I have grown fond of the club collar. Does anyone here know of a place that sells club collar shirts off the peg, preferably in Europe so I wouldn't have to pay the exorbitant duties?


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

Jovan said:


> You asked for an opinion. I gave it. It technically was what you were looking for.
> 
> When the sleeves are that long on you, there's no sense altering it since it will look a bit weird and out of proportion anyway.


I apologize for my abrupt retort. I did not realize it, but my initial post was unclear. I meant the skirt of the jacket, not the sleeves. If I were talking about the sleeves, your reply would make perfect sense.


----------



## randomdude

What do folks think of this Orvis jacket?


----------



## Green3

randomdude said:


> What do folks think of this Orvis jacket?


Like it - looks pretty heavy. I would wear it more as outerwear than with a tie.


----------



## P Hudson

I don't like the bi-swing back on them. That is to say, I think they are great in their place, but not really many other places.


----------



## eagle2250

randomdude said:


> What do folks think of this Orvis jacket?


I've a couple of Orvis's earlier editions of Harris Tweed shooting jackets (very similar design features but, different fabric patterns) and have been very happy with them. I like them so much, I had a (very similar but, eliminating the bellows pocket design in favor of inset pockets) third MTM version constructed through a local men's store. I will caution however, while I love the jackets, my wife refers to them as my field coats...primarily because of the bellows pockets! I found Orvis shooting coats to be sized very generously. You might want to go down a size(?).


----------



## randomdude

Green3 said:


> Like it - looks pretty heavy. I would wear it more as outerwear than with a tie.


Very interesting! Never thought of doing it like that. Actually on the Orvis website many of the shooting coats are listed under "outerwear" and not "blazers & sport coats." Guess that's the right approach!


----------



## randomdude

eagle2250 said:


> I've a couple of Orvis's earlier editions of Harris Tweed shooting jackets (very similar design features but, different fabric patterns) and have been very happy with them. I like them so much, I had a (very similar but, eliminating the bellows pocket design in favor of inset pockets) third MTM version constructed through a local men's store. I will caution however, while I love the jackets, my wife refers to them as my field coats...primarily because of the bellows pockets! I found Orvis shooting coats to be sized very generously. You might want to go down a size(?).


Yes, I definitely always go down a size in Orvis coats.


----------



## agent86

This is probably a stupid question but I am a complete newb.

Could anyone ID the texture/fabric of this blazer? Or possibly date it? Or any other pertinent information about it? I am just trying to make sure that it's not way out of date and would be a fashion blunder to wear, because I really like this jacket.

I'm a bit of a sartorial rube, and all of my blazers are either tweed or a much more smooth weave. However I'm an odd size, and on the rare occassion that something in a thrift store fits me, I jump on it.

It's a coarse weave, almost like oxford cloth. Here is the cuff shown against an oxford shirt:

Tags if this helps:

https://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1028kd5.jpg

https://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1029bd7.jpg

Here is a hanging shot:

https://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1030fl6.jpg

The brass buttons are inscribed with a shield, crown on top, and the letters HSM underneath.

Anyway I just wanted to know if I could find out some more information about this jacket, specifically the fabric, but also when it came from and whether it is acceptable to wear today. And if it was a good find.

I know it's not trad certified since it's darted but I'm no dandy and the other forum is intimidating to me; I trust this forum to lead me more in the direction.

Be honest, I paid $6 for it so if it's a junker then it's no big loss.


----------



## wnh

Looks like hopsack to me. And that stuff is soooo 2003.


Seriously. It's a navy blazer. You're fine. Wear it in good health.


----------



## agent86

Thanks, I think it is hopsack. 

I have just never bought anything secondhand before -- and a little OCD.


----------



## randomdude

Here's a pretty basic question. I just bought a from LL Bean in dark khaki, and I've never really had a light-colored blazer before. What are some things I can wear it with this spring/summer? 

Would it look good with blue/white seersucker? Gray slacks?


----------



## jhcam8

randomdude said:


> Here's a pretty basic question. I just bought a from LL Bean in dark khaki, and I've never really had a light-colored blazer before. What are some things I can wear it with this spring/summer?
> 
> Would it look good with blue/white seersucker? Gray slacks?


Any darker color - blue, navy, black, olive, denim. Not sure about seersucker - would have to see it.


----------



## randomdude

jhcam8 said:


> Any darker color - blue, navy, black, olive, denim. Not sure about seersucker - would have to see it.


I dunno - I feel that wearing something that sharply contrasts (navy trousers, for example) with a khaki jacket wouldn't look right. Obviously I'm on board with khakis and a blue blazer, but I think the reverse would look weird. That's why I was interested in seersucker - I don't think there would be as sharp a contrast.


----------



## wnh

randomdude said:


> Here's a pretty basic question. I just bought a from LL Bean in dark khaki, and I've never really had a light-colored blazer before. What are some things I can wear it with this spring/summer?
> 
> Would it look good with blue/white seersucker? Gray slacks?


It's cotton, and therefore casual, so I wouldn't pair it with gray slacks (on the assumption that they're wool).

I've got one from Brooks that's an orphaned suit jacket, and I always had a hard time figuring out what to wear it with. The only truly safe bet was jeans, with either an OCBD or polo, for a spring/summer cool evening sort of thing. You could try seersucker, but that seems iffy. Reds, too. I'll disagree with jhcam8 on everything but the denim. Blue, navy, and black would be too dark, I think, and olive would be too close in color to the jacket.

You could always try to find a pair of khakis that matched exactly and turn it into a suit. But until that happens, I'd stick with jeans.


----------



## clarence

What a coincidence. I've just returned from the tailor's to order a dark khaki linen jacket and navy blue trousers. I reasoned with myself that the ensemble would look good especially with a light blue shirt to pull it together. Of course, I spent the entire ride home worrying about how trad this would be.

Caveat: I would consider myself to be a trad-aspirant and not quite trad yet.


----------



## randomdude

I looked at some prior posts and it seems that reds + khaki jacket = successful combination. That's a good look!


----------



## jhcam8

randomdude said:


> Here's a pretty basic question. I just bought a from LL Bean in dark khaki, and I've never really had a light-colored blazer before. What are some things I can wear it with this spring/summer?
> Would it look good with blue/white seersucker? Gray slacks?


In my experience, if you can't find something to wear it with it's not going to work out for you. I looked at the LLBean site and see that they don't show any pairings w/that color. I'd be inclined to get the lighter shade and open up more possiblities.

Why don't you post some pictures of the coat and different slacks in a thread and ask for comments?



wnh said:


> It's cotton, and therefore casual, so I wouldn't pair it with gray slacks (on the assumption that they're wool).
> 
> I've got one from Brooks that's an orphaned suit jacket, and I always had a hard time figuring out what to wear it with. The only truly safe bet was jeans, with either an OCBD or polo, for a spring/summer cool evening sort of thing. You could try seersucker, but that seems iffy. Reds, too.
> 
> I'll disagree with jhcam8 on everything but the denim. Blue, navy, and black would be too dark, I think, and olive would be too close in color to the jacket.
> 
> You could always try to find a pair of khakis that matched exactly and turn it into a suit. But until that happens, I'd stick with jeans.


I wouldn't assume that grey slacks are wool - there's a number of cotton suits in grey, as well as blazers. I've worn dark grey cotton slacks w/a light khaki jacket (the jacket has grey in the buttons) and it worked.
Pretty tough to find an exact match - there's the weave, cut, and weight - not just the color - to consider. Besides. what's the point? Just buy a cotton suit if that's what you want.

Good ideas about the shirts, WNH. After I saw the color I'm inclined to agree w/you about the pants colors.



clarence said:


> What a coincidence. I've just returned from the tailor's to order a dark khaki linen jacket and navy blue trousers. I reasoned with myself that the ensemble would look good especially with a light blue shirt to pull it together. Of course, I spent the entire ride home worrying about how trad this would be.
> 
> Caveat: I would consider myself to be a trad-aspirant and not quite trad yet.


No worries, Clarence. Did you get a trad cut in the coat?



randomdude said:


> I looked at some prior posts and it seems that reds + khaki jacket = successful combination. That's a good look!


This has possiblities - maybe some trad plaid pants - a nice madras?


----------



## wnh

jhcam8 said:


> Pretty tough to find an exact match - there's the weave, cut, and weight - not just the color - to consider. Besides. what's the point? Just buy a cotton suit if that's what you want.


I agree; my suggestion was more along the lines of, "When life hands you lemons..."

I can't picture gray cotton pants going well with a khaki jacket. Then again, I don't know that I've ever seen a pair of gray cotton pants that looked good by themselves, so who knows. Gray just seems like one of those colors best left to wool, to my eye.


----------



## CBtoNYC

*What to wear with khaki jacket*

^^ As said above, I wear jeans with mine in the fall or spring. In the summer, lighter-colored chinos (stone, or white) with a light-blue or checked pinpoint button-down is an option.


----------



## jhcam8

wnh said:


> I agree; my suggestion was more along the lines of, "When life hands you lemons..."
> 
> I can't picture gray cotton pants going well with a khaki jacket. Then again, I don't know that I've ever seen a pair of gray cotton pants that looked good by themselves, so who knows. Gray just seems like one of those colors best left to wool, to my eye.


I had a grey cotton H. Freeman suit that was as trad as they come. I liked the grey because it had a dressier look than a khaki or seersucker when occasion demanded.

Also, I don't see why you and others think that denim looks good w/the dark khaki under discussion, but a blue cotton chino in the same shade woudn't. See? :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## wnh

jhcam8 said:


> Also, I don't see why you and others think that denim looks good w/the dark khaki under discussion, but a blue cotton chino in the same shade woudn't. See? :icon_smile_wink:


Something about the different fabrics, I guess. Navy denim and navy chino are two completely different animals, even if they're the same shade of blue. Plus I'm in the can't-stand-blue-chinos camp, so I'm biased in that regard.


----------



## jhcam8

wnh said:


> Something about the different fabrics, I guess. Navy denim and navy chino are two completely different animals, even if they're the same shade of blue. Plus I'm in the can't-stand-blue-chinos camp, so I'm biased in that regard.


OK - I see your point - one is cotton and the other is cotton.

To each his own.


----------



## wnh

jhcam8 said:


> OK - I see your point - one is cotton and the other is cotton.
> 
> To each his own.


Funny. Denim and chino, though both cotton, are two completely different fabrics. Just because they're the same color doesn't mean they work in the same way, which is why I don't think a khaki jacket would go with navy chinos. But, like I said, I don't think much of anything looks good with navy chinos, so I've got an obvious slant.

Anyway, a khaki sportcoat with jeans is a completely different look than a khaki sportcoat with navy chinos, just like a white OCBD with jeans is a completely different look than a white OCBD with navy chinos. I think part of my problem is that both the jacket and the chinos are the same fabric, just different colors, and that's odd to my eye. Somehow, though, a navy chino jacket over khakis is fine. Don't ask me why.


----------



## dandypauper

wnh said:


> Somehow, though, a navy chino jacket over khakis is fine. Don't ask me why.


I haven't even read all the stuff leading up to this, so I am sort of like a child who wanders into the middle of a conversation and...
also changes the subject somewhat, but...
I learned somewhere along the line that one's coat should be darker than his trousers. I have attempted to disabuse myself of this possible misinformation and have been somewhat successful, but it still lingers in my mind each morning. I think there's something to it. One of the funniest pictures in my house growing up features my father wearing a light grey jacket and nearly black pants. We all agree, there's just something about it that's not right. I think this could also explain the difficult time helping out Randomdude or whoever it was that started this by asking about a khaki coat. Any thoughts?

PS, I too think a khaki coat with jeans looks fine or better. The above rule (which, again, I try not to make a rule for myself anyway) notwithstanding. Agreed, jeans are just different. Not sure why.


----------



## jhcam8

wnh said:


> Funny. Denim and chino, though both cotton, are two completely different fabrics. Just because they're the same color doesn't mean they work in the same way, which is why I don't think a khaki jacket would go with navy chinos. But, like I said, I don't think much of anything looks good with navy chinos, so I've got an obvious slant.
> 
> Anyway, a khaki sportcoat with jeans is a completely different look than a khaki sportcoat with navy chinos, just like a white OCBD with jeans is a completely different look than a white OCBD with navy chinos. I think part of my problem is that both the jacket and the chinos are the same fabric, just different colors, and that's odd to my eye. Somehow, though, a navy chino jacket over khakis is fine. Don't ask me why.


Sure, I was just being a bit facetious. Clearly, if you don't like navy chinos there's nothing to discuss there - go in peace. (yawn)


----------



## randomdude

What is Orvis Buzz Off clothing? I'm looking at on Ebay. 

I've been an Orvis customer for about two years now and have never seen Buzz Off stuff in their catalogs. I googled it and it appears to be, like, insect-repellent clothing. Can you wear insect-repellent clothing in a non-insect-full setting?


----------



## trolperft

What color shirts to wear with the shetland sweater besides white?


----------



## wnh

trolperft said:


> What color shirts to wear with the shetland sweater besides white?


Seriously? The same color shirts you'd wear with any other sweater. And it depends on the color of the sweater.

_edit_: Didn't realize there was a picture -- it didn't appear on my work computer.


----------



## hbs midwest

trolperft said:


> What color shirts to wear with the shetland sweater besides white?


Huh?

I have an ancient/venerable LE Shetland almost exactly the same color; the following OCBDs have gone under it:
White
Blue
Yellow
Pink (yeah, pink!)
Blue unistripe
Burgundy unistripe
Similar palette of golf shirts and T-necks...

Lovely sweater, BTW.:icon_smile:

Wear with pleasure--and many shirt colors.

hbs


----------



## Duck

randomdude said:


> What is Orvis Buzz Off clothing? I'm looking at on Ebay.
> 
> I've been an Orvis customer for about two years now and have never seen Buzz Off stuff in their catalogs. I googled it and it appears to be, like, insect-repellent clothing. Can you wear insect-repellent clothing in a non-insect-full setting?


Sure, but it is built to repel insects. It doesn't have a smell if that is what you are concerned about.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Yeah, the above (very, very nice) sweater will go with any OCBD shirt.


----------



## randomdude

Duck said:


> Sure, but it is built to repel insects. It doesn't have a smell if that is what you are concerned about.


Yes Duck, that was my concern. Thanks for the info.


----------



## chatsworth osborne jr.

*back to hopsack*

For the navy blazer with gray flannels: must the blazer be a hefty doeskin? Does hopsack or a tighter plain weave look right against the nap of flannel?


----------



## TDI GUY

chatsworth osborne jr. said:


> For the navy blazer with gray flannels: must the blazer be a hefty doeskin? Does hopsack or a tighter plain weave look right against the nap of flannel?


I have both a Southwick hopsack blazer and the BB University Blazer. For what its worth, I only wear the University Blazer with with grey flannels.


----------



## TDI GUY

*J.Press Carded Flannel Suit*

Shot in the dark here, but was wondering if anyone happened to purchase the Carded Flannel suit currently on sale on the Press website.

I have been contemplating pulling the trigger on it, but would love some more info. How heavy is it? How are the shoulders? Any info is appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Silly question here but...

What's the deal with the cut of Oxxford suits?

I was under the impression that they are usually very shouldered and boxy, do they have anything softer, slimmer and more trady?

They seem to be pretty cheap on ebay, and the couple I've seen I was really impressed by the fabric and the construction.


----------



## LoneSuitinDTW

*Brooks Basics*

Does anyone know how long it has been since Brooks Brothers had offerings under the label Brooks basics? I had a lucky find when thrifting over the weekend. A pink oxford in practically brand new condition and it was only 90 cents.


----------



## ardbeg1977

LoneSuitinDTW said:


> Does anyone know how long it has been since Brooks Brothers had offerings under the label Brooks basics? I had a lucky find when thrifting over the weekend. A pink oxford in practically brand new condition and it was only 90 cents.


 Last time I saw "Brooks Basics" was at a factory store about 4-5 years ago. I could be wrong in saying this, but I seem to remember it being the precursor to "346" or at least an equivalent.


----------



## emc894

*What is difference between these to blazers?*

Could someone please tell me the difference between these two blazers?

The second one looks a lot better in the picture but the descriptions aren't very clear. Also, I live in Texas. Do you think either one would be too hot for year round wear?

Finally, do you think there is anyway I could find this camel's hair, or a nearly identical one, for a lower price? Or is that just wishful thinking?

Thanks a lot for you help.


----------



## chava

Is the 3 1/4" coat lapel width the absolute standard, or can it vary and still be considered classic? If it may be varied, then by how much without joining the ranks of fad & fashion, rather than style?


----------



## Jovan

You can go about a quarter inch narrower or wider and it will not look too dated or too fashionable. It also depends on your build, however. Some men look good with more substantial lapels as wide as 3.75".


----------



## randomdude

Here's a rant/question: Why the hell doesn't Orvis ever offer any coupons? They never have free shipping and they never have $10 off $50 or whatever like Lands End, LL Bean, and any other number of companies. This is extremely annoying to me because I am a big Orvis fan and on several occasions I would have bought something if it wasn't for their outrageously expensive shipping and tax. I don't want to get their credit card, so save your objections.


----------



## C. Sharp

I got one once for doing a survey. I understand the rant but Tent Tale and free shipping with their credit card. If you play by their rules it is not that bad.



randomdude said:


> Here's a rant/question: Why the hell doesn't Orvis ever offer any coupons? They never have free shipping and they never have $10 off $50 or whatever like Lands End, LL Bean, and any other number of companies. This is extremely annoying to me because I am a big Orvis fan and on several occasions I would have bought something if it wasn't for their outrageously expensive shipping and tax. I don't want to get their credit card, so save your objections.


----------



## randomdude

Hey what's going on with The Weejun? I like that site a lot. I just went there and it's just a picture with Good Night and Good Luck written at the bottom.


----------



## Reds & Tops

randomdude said:


> Hey what's going on with The Weejun? I like that site a lot. I just went there and it's just a picture with Good Night and Good Luck written at the bottom.


I hope not! I just came across it a few weeks ago and was a fan for sure.


----------



## CurlyMike

Gentlemen,

Looking at buying one of suits on sale at JPress. Here are the three I am considering:





Which is your favorite?

It's been years since I bought a new suit, so I am planning on going to the DC store to recheck my size (think I'm still a 42L). Any thoughts or comments from the group?


----------



## Reds & Tops

CurlyMike said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Looking at buying one of suits on sale at JPress. Here are the three I am considering:
> 
> Which is your favorite?
> 
> It's been years since I bought a new suit, so I am planning on going to the DC store to recheck my size (think I'm still a 42L). Any thoughts or comments from the group?


My thoughts are:

1. Charcoal with Gray and Purple stripes
2. Carded Flannel
3. Pinstripe


----------



## Duck

CurlyMike said:


> Gentlemen,
> 
> Looking at buying one of suits on sale at JPress. Here are the three I am considering:
> 
> Which is your favorite?
> 
> It's been years since I bought a new suit, so I am planning on going to the DC store to recheck my size (think I'm still a 42L). Any thoughts or comments from the group?


Try them all on. You might pick one over the other if they are on instead of just holding them up.

I like all three.


----------



## randomdude

Did I really just get an email coupon from O'Connell's for $50 off $100? Damn, that's a great deal! Anyone else get this?


----------



## Drew Bernard

randomdude said:


> Did I really just get an email coupon from O'Connell's for $50 off $100? Damn, that's a great deal! Anyone else get this?


Real deal. Check out the last page of their spring newsletter...

https://linuxweb2.core101.net/s/h/s...om/files/newsletters/spring2009newsletter.pdf


----------



## Jovan

Can pale yellow or ecru be used the same as a white shirt in most circumstances?


----------



## wnh

Yellow, probably. Ecru seems more of a fall/winter color to me.


----------



## hbecklin

Not having any metric to go by, how does one choose one's size in the Barrie Last? I'm ideally a 13.5E, but 13E has to do it for me in most endeavors. 13E should be perfect in the Barrie, then, right?


----------



## eagle2250

^^Right!


----------



## hbecklin

Thanks eagle! I was hoping so!


----------



## Jovan

How do you all rate LE chino shorts? I'm thinking about a pair of the 9" in Nantucket red or khaki.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

*recrafting aldens*

I was trying to find prices for how much it would cost to get a pair of aldens recrafted. The soles need replacing and the welt might need to be resewn in a spot.


----------



## AAF-8AF

AdamsSutherland said:


> I was trying to find prices for how much it would cost to get a pair of aldens recrafted. The soles need replacing and the welt might need to be resewn in a spot.


According to this page at Alden of Carmel, the price is $135 ()


----------



## Andersdad

*LE Shorts*



Jovan said:


> How do you all rate LE chino shorts? I'm thinking about a pair of the 9" in Nantucket red or khaki.


I really like the LE chino shorts. If you like their full length chinos, you will like the shorts.


----------



## Bartolo

I did try for a bit to "search," but can anyone point me to a good review of OCBD's? I definitely need to add a few to my closet. I prefer a somewhat slim cut -- I'm far from "Italian-skinny" but BB's and Jos. Bank's standard fare definitely are too wide for my torso (5'11", 36 inch waist, barrel-chested).

In the alternative, feel free to simply tell me which ones you like. Thanks!


----------



## Jovan

Andersdad said:


> I really like the LE chino shorts. If you like their full length chinos, you will like the shorts.


Thanks. I think I'll give them a try in that case.


----------



## Peachey Carnehan

Jovan said:


> How do you all rate LE chino shorts? I'm thinking about a pair of the 9" in Nantucket red or khaki.


I actually just bought a pair in Nantucket Red...in fact it is my first pair of Nantucket reds. Quite a bit cheaper than Murray's of course.

I've just worn them once, but they fit well, true to size, are comfortable, and the perfect traditional shade (compare to Orvis' reds- I believe their take on Nantucket red is inferior to LE).

Recommended.


----------



## Peachey Carnehan

Bartolo said:


> I did try for a bit to "search," but can anyone point me to a good review of OCBD's? I definitely need to add a few to my closet. I prefer a somewhat slim cut -- I'm far from "Italian-skinny" but BB's and Jos. Bank's standard fare definitely are too wide for my torso (5'11", 36 inch waist, barrel-chested).
> 
> In the alternative, feel free to simply tell me which ones you like. Thanks!


Lands' End makes a good OCBD at a great price, and they have a tailored cut version for a closer more athletic fit. I don't mind being a little rumpled, so I don't buy the "no iron" version. They also have good sales online and in the store.


----------



## Joe Beamish

They do make a great must-iron, tailored fit OCBD shirt -- in both colors! White AND blue. Yay!



Peachey Carnehan said:


> Lands' End makes a good OCBD at a great price, and they have a tailored cut version for a closer more athletic fit. I don't mind being a little rumpled, so I don't buy the "no iron" version. They also have good sales online and in the store.


----------



## Jovan

Peachey Carnehan said:


> I actually just bought a pair in Nantucket Red...in fact it is my first pair of Nantucket reds. Quite a bit cheaper than Murray's of course.
> 
> I've just worn them once, but they fit well, true to size, are comfortable, and the perfect traditional shade (compare to Orvis' reds- I believe their take on Nantucket red is inferior to LE).
> 
> Recommended.


Cool. I only wish they had trousers in that shade if I decided I wanted to be even more "GTH."


----------



## Bartolo

Joe Beamish said:


> They do make a great must-iron, tailored fit OCBD shirt -- in both colors! White AND blue. Yay!


Should I bother trying to shop these locally in a Sears store, or just buy online? If Sears' Lands End dept stocks them, I can try on a few different sizes.

And which Lands End shirt do you recommend? The "original" ocbd, Hyde Park, or pinpoint? I just remember owning one of theirs, years ago, that had extremely thick fabric -- too thick for my tastes -- cardboard-like when starched by the laundry.


----------



## Piscator

^ I have both the original and Hyde Park oxfords from LE. I like them both, but I wear the original oxford more. Its price alone makes it an incredible value, and it seems to dress up or down quite easily. If you don't like thick fabric, these should be OK for you (compared to Hyde Park). You'll get a hundred different opinions on this.


----------



## Andersdad

Jovan said:


> Cool. I only wish they had trousers in that shade if I decided I wanted to be even more "GTH."


?


----------



## emc894

Could someone please tell me the difference between these two blazers? 





The second one looks a lot better in the picture but the descriptions aren't very clear. Also, I live in Texas. Do you think either one would be too hot for year round wear?

Finally, do you think there is anyway I could find this camel's hair, or a nearly identical one, for a lower price? Or is that just wishful thinking? 


Thanks a lot for you help.


(sorry to repost)


----------



## Jovan

Andersdad said:


> ?


Nice, I hadn't seen those. Unfortunately they aren't in my waist size right now...


----------



## Jovan

Bartolo said:


> Should I bother trying to shop these locally in a Sears store, or just buy online? If Sears' Lands End dept stocks them, I can try on a few different sizes.
> 
> And which Lands End shirt do you recommend? The "original" ocbd, Hyde Park, or pinpoint? * I just remember owning one of theirs, years ago, that had extremely thick fabric -- too thick for my tastes -- cardboard-like when starched by the laundry.*


It's a crime to starch an OCBD!


----------



## C. Sharp

Did any of you get a e-mail survey request from Brooks Brothers in the past couple of months? I got one did it and used the part were you can put your own thoughts and suggestions. Not sure if they will listen but let them know what I was thinking anyway. Any similar experiences among the forum.


----------



## hbs midwest

Jovan said:


> It's a crime to starch an OCBD!


I have been a felon for the past 40+ years...:devil:

hbs


----------



## Curzon

Hi all, a new question from a new kid on the block. I found this BB jacket for very cheap on ebay, and, swooning from the 3/2 roll and soft shoulder, bought it. Upon receiving, however, the nearness of the button color to the jacket's color has made me fear I've fallen for the old orphaned-suit-coat trick - have I? Only label in the jacket is the little one at the collar, just has the logo and such.


----------



## inq89

Q: I currently own one blazer. A vintage Navy Blue Anderson-Little with gold buttons. Is this basic enough for a grad student, or should I look for a gray jacket with less-noticeable buttons? Is a gray jacket okay, or is navy the only acceptable color?


----------



## Patrick06790

emc894 said:


> Could someone please tell me the difference between these two blazers?
> 
> The second one looks a lot better in the picture but the descriptions aren't very clear. Also, I live in Texas. Do you think either one would be too hot for year round wear?
> 
> Finally, do you think there is anyway I could find this camel's hair, or a nearly identical one, for a lower price? Or is that just wishful thinking?
> 
> Thanks a lot for you help.
> 
> (sorry to repost)


A) Southwick blazer number two seems to be out of stock. Number one looks to be a pretty standard two-button, almost certainly darted, but nice. It is fully lined, which would make it too hot for New England in the summer, which is less onerous than Texas most of the time, I would guess.

B) If you are a 42R or thereabouts send me a PM, I can help here.


----------



## Patrick06790

Curzon said:


> Hi all, a new question from a new kid on the block. I found this BB jacket for very cheap on ebay, and, swooning from the 3/2 roll and soft shoulder, bought it. Upon receiving, however, the nearness of the button color to the jacket's color has made me fear I've fallen for the old orphaned-suit-coat trick - have I? Only label in the jacket is the little one at the collar, just has the logo and such.


Yes, you have. Too bad, it's nice.

Not even the old "I'll shove blazer buttons on it" trick is going to work here. If you are young and/or art-damaged, you could wear it with t-shirt and jeans.

If it fits, though, and I mean it _really _fits, keep it as a template. Measure it every which way, and keep those measurements handy so if you find something in a thrift shop or on eBay you will know if it's going to work. You can save yourself many costly missteps this way.


----------



## Patrick06790

inquirer89 said:


> Q: I currently own one blazer. A vintage Navy Blue Anderson-Little with gold buttons. Is this basic enough for a grad student, or should I look for a gray jacket with less-noticeable buttons? Is a gray jacket okay, or is navy the only acceptable color?


There really isn't a grey blazer, per se, if you mean a grey version of the navy jacket with brass buttons.

If you want a grey sports jacket (and you should) then most guys would opt for a grey herringbone tweed first, a grey glen plaid second.


----------



## inq89

Patrick06790 said:


> There really isn't a grey blazer, per se, if you mean a grey version of the navy jacket with brass buttons.
> 
> If you want a grey sports jacket (and you should) then most guys would opt for a grey herringbone tweed first, a grey glen plaid second.


So is a navy jacket with gold buttons flexible, in that the gold buttons won't be too flashy for all occasions? Or should it be worn to day time church events only (for example).

I'm on a look out for a harris tweed for this Fall. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Patrick06790

inquirer89 said:


> So is a navy jacket with gold buttons flexible, in that the gold buttons won't be too flashy for all occasions? Or should it be worn to day time church events only (for example).
> 
> I'm on a look out for a harris tweed for this Fall. Thanks for the reply!


The navy blazer is a standard, can be dressed up or down with equal facility, and is appropriate just about anywhere for most guys.

If you find the brass or gold-colored buttons (often with some sort of insignia, usually ersatz) too flashy, swap them out for plain silver ones, with a matte finish, or drop a few bucks and get a set from your college.


----------



## D&S

Quick, basic question - what is meant by a "sack" suit?


----------



## Danny

Try O'Connell's camel coat

https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/search.php?q=camel&search.x=0&search.y=0



emc894 said:


> Could someone please tell me the difference between these two blazers?
> 
> The second one looks a lot better in the picture but the descriptions aren't very clear. Also, I live in Texas. Do you think either one would be too hot for year round wear?
> 
> Finally, do you think there is anyway I could find this camel's hair, or a nearly identical one, for a lower price? Or is that just wishful thinking?
> 
> Thanks a lot for you help.
> 
> (sorry to repost)


----------



## Jovan

D&S said:


> Quick, basic question - what is meant by a "sack" suit?


A quick search using the button at the top will find you your answer.


----------



## AldenPyle

D&S said:


> Quick, basic question - what is meant by a "sack" suit?


The sack cut has natural, narrow shoulders, straight hanging sides, and a chest w/o shaping darts (a vertical seam going straight up from the pockets).


----------



## ds23pallas

I should know this but I don't - what does this sizing mean relating to the sleeve length? My BB shirts are sized 16-34, for example. What does the "5" mean on this label (image courtesy of Heavy Tweed Jackets blog).


----------



## Reds & Tops

it refers to a 35" sleeve


----------



## Peachey Carnehan

*Regimental Tie History*

I wasn't certain if this question was too complex for this thread- if it should get its own thread or not, but I wanted to start here.

Can someone give more background on the history and theory behind regimental ties/ colors/ stripes?

I have searched the internet and the Trad fora and found information on which way the stripes go, and the purpose for the colors (to be able to distinguish between regiments), but I am unclear of what the colors refer to: Ties not being worn historically as part of a military uniform, where did these colors appear? Wikipedia was not clear where it says:

"_Regimental Colour,_ usually a plain flag in the colour of the regiment's "facings" (traditionally the colour of the lining of the redcoat jacket) or the Cross of St George, with the regiment's insignia in the centre."

The wording "colour" is singular and regimental ties by definition are multicolored.

Do the ties in fact derive from the Regiment in questions own specific flag, and uniform coat lining?

Can anyone elaborate also on regimental colors in use in additional places to the tie, i.e. grosgrain watch bands, etc.

Finally, are there any reference sources showing a list of historical regimental colors, flags, ties, etc?

Thank you for your help!


----------



## Grenadier

Regimental ties developed as a means, primarily, for veterans of certain British regiments to distinguish themselves as veterans of that regiment at various social events, especially regimental reunions.

When the necktie became popularized, each regiment was granted its own necktie pattern. In the case of Highland regiments, the necktie pattern took the colors of the regiment's tartan pattern. For other regiments, the primary colors of the regiment's necktie might derive from the Colours of the regiment, although this is in many instances patently not the case, especially for cavalry regiments.

As far as Colours go, they were merely the flags carried by the regiment. Each British regiment carried the King's Colours (i.e. the Union Jack with the royal cipher in the middle) and the regimental Colours, which were almost invariably a solid color (sometimes the facing color of the regiment, but not always so), with a heraldric blazon in the middle and a small version of the Union Jack in the upper left-hand corner. Obviously, with dozens and dozens of regiments, the main color for the regiment's Colours (and facing) got reused quite a bit, which problematized making a unique necktie for each regiment that would not include things like heraldic devices and blazons. So, multi-colored striped ties were born.


----------



## C. Sharp

This book is a bit rare(some sellers asking up to $170.00) Link much cheaper. Book has 749 tie illustrations. 
*The Book of Public School Old Boys, University, Navy, Army, Air Force & Club Ties *

by Laver, James 

https://www.alibris.com/booksearch.detail?invid=9511945690&query=james+laver+ties&qsort=&page=1


----------



## inq89

I thrifted my first Brooks Brothers OCBDs and I noticed that they do not have the second button on the sleeves, which makes it hard to roll them up since it would be too loose. Is this normal for BB shirts, and are they meant for a tailor to sew that extra button and hole in?


----------



## wnh

Jovan said:


> A quick search using the button at the top will find you your answer.


Dude, this is a thread set aside for "Quick Answers to quick questions." Not exactly the place to say, "Look somewhere else for the answer."


----------



## C. Sharp

inquirer89 said:


> I thrifted my first Brooks Brothers OCBDs and I noticed that they do not have the second button on the sleeves, which makes it hard to roll them up since it would be too loose. Is this normal for BB shirts, and are they meant for a tailor to sew that extra button and hole in?


I think your talking about a gauntlet button. They do not come with them. Never heard of anyone adding one to a Brooks Brothers shirt.
See old photos of JFK for how to wear an oxford with rolled sleeves.


----------



## Jovan

wnh said:


> Dude, this is a thread set aside for "Quick Answers to quick questions." Not exactly the place to say, "Look somewhere else for the answer."


DUDE, QUIT CALLIN' ME DUDE!

There's many threads that already show/give the answer.


----------



## wnh

Jovan said:


> DUDE, QUIT CALLIN' ME DUDE!


Right. Sorry, bro.



> There's many threads that already show/give the answer.


But this thread is precisely for people who don't want to dig to find answers to questions. No need to refuse to answer someone on this thread.


----------



## emc894

Rimmed: https://www.shorelineengravers.com/products_other.cfm?cat_id=1&product_id=1

or

Plain: https://www.shorelineengravers.com/products_other.cfm?cat_id=1&product_id=5

on a 3/2 sack navy blazer?


----------



## wnh

emc894 said:


> Rimmed: https://www.shorelineengravers.com/products_other.cfm?cat_id=1&product_id=1
> 
> or
> 
> Plain: https://www.shorelineengravers.com/products_other.cfm?cat_id=1&product_id=5
> 
> on a 3/2 sack navy blazer?


The rimmed adds visual interest and, in my opinion, looks a little less cheap and generic.


----------



## Peachey Carnehan

emc894 said:


> Rimmed: https://www.shorelineengravers.com/products_other.cfm?cat_id=1&product_id=1
> 
> or
> 
> Plain: https://www.shorelineengravers.com/products_other.cfm?cat_id=1&product_id=5
> 
> on a 3/2 sack navy blazer?


My opinion is that the rimmed looks nicer...but that is entirely my opinion based on my personal aesthetic sense and may not be the trad answer.


----------



## ErikinWest

I've been eying this lovely DB Ralph Lauren Blazer, but it has no vents!! That's means it's off limits right??

Erik


----------



## Jovan

A lot of DBs have no vents. Don't listen to the ones who say vent-less coats are "sooo 1980s." They will always have a place.


----------



## ErikinWest

Jovan said:


> A lot of DBs have no vents. Don't listen to the ones who say vent-less coats are "sooo 1980s." They will always have a place.


kk. Do you think a tailor could add a vent (I don't imagine it would be too difficult)?

Erik


----------



## Ron_A

ErikinWest said:


> kk. Do you think a tailor could add a vent (I don't imagine it would be too difficult)?
> 
> Erik


I've recently learned that a good tailor can do almost anything - for a price.


----------



## P Hudson

I was watching "Mr Lucky" the other night, and couldn't help but notice that Cary Grant wore ventless jackets. 

I'd assume a tailor can add a vent if you have sufficient fabric to give a fold of about half an inch on both sides of the vent. I just had a look at a few of my jackets to see how the vent is constructed. On a couple of my partly lined jackets (Southwick), there is about 1.5 inches on the left side (looking from the back) and virtually none on the right. A Press and a couple BB's look like they are more evenly balanced at about a half inch each. An unlined jacket must be infinitely easier because it precludes wading into the multiple layers of fabric. 

My guess is that if your jacket is lined, but you can feel about a half inch of fabric butterflyed where the seams join, it should be do-able. Please let us know, if you do it, how it goes.


----------



## Jovan

ErikinWest said:


> kk. Do you think a tailor could add a vent (I don't imagine it would be too difficult)?
> 
> Erik


Vents are cut differently from a the rest of the back's seams, so I don't think it would work. I'm pretty sure one of the tailors here said an affirmative "no" on it.

If you need justification for vent-less coats, just look at the back of Cary Grant or Jimmy Stewart in most of their movies. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Patrick06790

Ventless is fine. Traditional, not necessarily "Trad." 

Or classic, if you prefer.

Especially useful for guys like me with sloping shoulders and a slight curve of the spine. Single vents often flop around on me. If I could find a sack suit with a bit of waist suppression, minimal shoulder padding and no vents that would be terrific.

If I get second place in the Esquire thing I'll have Kenneth Cole make one for me. 

Right.


----------



## stfu

*Trousers with this Glen Plaid*

Which of these trousers would you *not* wear with this Glen Plaid. 
Cream Flat Front Chinos
Dark Grey wool trousers
Mid Grey wool trousers
Olive Gabardines
Navy Chinos
British Tan Khakis​The blue windowpane is almost royal, and not quite as pronounced as the photos imply. Assume a white or blue OCBD.


----------



## wnh

^ I wouldn't wear any of those trousers with that jacket, because it looks like an orphaned suit jacket.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ That was my initial reaction -- orphaned suit jacket -- but I would have said the same thing about a number of jackets currently offered on BB's website as "sport coats".

Such as this one. What's the difference, I wonder?


----------



## trolperft

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ That was my initial reaction -- orphaned suit jacket -- but I would have said the same thing about a number of jackets currently offered on BB's website as "sport coats".
> 
> Such as this one. What's the difference, I wonder?


Maybe, fabric? Blend of wool and other fabrics like silk or linen have different sheen and texture from 100% wool. It makes the sportcoat look softer and more casual.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ So it's the worsted quality of the glen plaid jacket that makes it more of a suit jacket? I don't disagree -- but this is one area I get confused about.


----------



## stfu

wnh said:


> ^ I wouldn't wear any of those trousers with that jacket, because it looks like an orphaned suit jacket.


That's interesting. I never would have thought so about this jacket (an OLD 346 sack).

Darn.


----------



## Joe Beamish

stfu -- Not to worry. I think the whole subject is extremely leaky: orphaned suit jacket vs. sport coat. I have yet to encounter an airtight distinction. 

I think that unless a given jacket is obviously a suit jacket -- screamingly obvious like a pinstripe with peaked lapels -- then it should be worn however you wish, with whatever pants you please according to your aesthetic. 

And even so, I quite cheerfully wear my navy poplin suit jacket as a separate piece all the time.


----------



## stfu

Joe Beamish said:


> stfu -- Not to worry. I think the whole subject is extremely leaky: orphaned suit jacket vs. sport coat. I have yet to encounter an airtight distinction.
> 
> I think that unless a given jacket is obviously a suit jacket -- screamingly obvious like a pinstripe with peaked lapels -- then it should be worn however you wish, with whatever pants you please according to your aesthetic.
> 
> And even so, I quite cheerfully wear my navy poplin suit jacket as a separate piece all the time.


Thanks JB. I can see no true distinction between what I displayed and the current Brooks offering you showed, other than the 2 button cuffs which I was thinking could be a function of the age of the piece.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Yes. My older BB's have two buttons on the cuffs -- including a couple navy blazers (one of them an old school 346) that I will wear until one of us disintegrates.


----------



## Jovan

I like the spaced two button cuffs on '60s coats. I think I'll have it done when I get a MTM suit.


----------



## Calvin500

Jovan said:


> DUDE, QUIT CALLIN' ME DUDE!
> 
> There's many threads that already show/give the answer.


Jovan,

A quick look at the first post on this thread will reveal that this is precisely the place where you ask quick questions, like "what's an OCBD?" or, in the same vein, wnh's "what is a sack?"

Respectfully,

Calvin


----------



## Jovan

Fair enough.


----------



## wnh

Joe Beamish said:


> ^ That was my initial reaction -- orphaned suit jacket -- but I would have said the same thing about a number of jackets currently offered on BB's website as "sport coats".
> 
> Such as this one. What's the difference, I wonder?


Hard to tell without seeing it in person, but I'm assuming there's some dead giveaway that the above jacket is indeed a sport jacket and not an orphaned suit jacket. Maybe there isn't an airtight distinction, but you know it when you see it. Or, at least, you'll learn to.


----------



## fishertw

*Odd things around this forum*



PorterSq said:


> Thanks for the tips, all. I wore them today for the first time, and they fit like a dream, with the exception of one spot on the side of my foot where they rubbed the skin off (ouch). I'll try the trick of wearing them in the tub (Patrick, I know you're famous around here for your sense of humor, so I'll assume the duct tape trick is a joke...yes?).


You need to look up the way "Harris" advocates washing OCBD's. It involves a foot tub and a baseball bat.(seriously!) Sort of like papasan beating our underwear on rocks during Viet Nam days.
Cheers. Tom


----------



## Patrick06790

fishertw said:


> You need to look up the way "Harris" advocates washing OCBD's. It involves a foot tub and a baseball bat.(seriously!) Sort of like papasan beating our underwear on rocks during Viet Nam days.
> Cheers. Tom


If you get a blister washing your shirts this way just put a piece of duct tape on it. And by this time you should be able to wear your boat shoes in the tub without discomfort.


----------



## Joe Beamish

In some cases, I don't think there's any difference other than how it's worn.



wnh said:


> Hard to tell without seeing it in person, but I'm assuming there's some dead giveaway that the above jacket is indeed a sport jacket and not an orphaned suit jacket. Maybe there isn't an airtight distinction, but you know it when you see it. Or, at least, you'll learn to.


----------



## Jovan

Personally, I just wore my Top-Siders with socks for a while until they were sufficiently broken in. Now I can wear them all day without as much discomfort, though I'm still thinking of trying out "loafer socks" to see what I'm missing.


----------



## patrickjc30

Jovan said:


> Personally, I just wore my Top-Siders with socks for a while until they were sufficiently broken in. Now I can wear them all day without as much discomfort, though I'm still thinking of trying out "loafer socks" to see what I'm missing.


What are loafer socks?


----------



## Jovan

They're basically super-low top thin socks that don't show when worn with loafers.

https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=10865&vid=1&pid=555740&scid=555740012


----------



## patrickjc30

Jovan said:


> They're basically super-low top thin socks that don't show when worn with loafers.
> 
> https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=10865&vid=1&pid=555740&scid=555740012


Thanks, been looking for something like that.


----------



## rabidawg

*Johnston & Murphy Dawson Cap Toe - Polished Cobbler?*

I'm looking at a pair of J&M Dawson cap toe bals online in what I believe J&M calls "Dark Brown Calf." However, it is difficult to tell from the pictures whether J&M's "calf" is corrected grain or not.

Anyone know? Thanks in advance.


----------



## obxsouth

*Seersucker dilemma*

Two questions:
I recently picked up a seersucker suit, but now have a twofold dilemma:
First, what ties go best with a seersucker suit?
Second: I have mild cerebral palsy, and as a result must wear shoes that are at least just above the ankle for support. So I don't know which shoes will work well with the suit. Help.


----------



## AldenPyle

obxsouth said:


> Two questions:
> I recently picked up a seersucker suit, but now have a twofold dilemma:
> First, what ties go best with a seersucker suit?
> Second: I have mild cerebral palsy, and as a result must wear shoes that are at least just above the ankle for support. So I don't know which shoes will work well with the suit. Help.


Suede chukkas, maybe?


----------



## DCLawyer68

obxsouth said:


> Two questions:
> I recently picked up a seersucker suit, but now have a twofold dilemma:
> First, what ties go best with a seersucker suit?
> Second: I have mild cerebral palsy, and as a result must wear shoes that are at least just above the ankle for support. So I don't know which shoes will work well with the suit. Help.


Hi there - welcome to the seersucker club. I'm also a new member (last summer) so I'm just feeling my may around. My favorite tie to wear is a bright orange one with white diagonal stripes. Next, I have a dark brown moc toe that I like to wear with them as well (can't say how they support ankles - maybe a low cut boot???) but I prefer the dark brown to either black or burgundy with seersucker.


----------



## Reds & Tops

obxsouth said:


> Two questions:
> I recently picked up a seersucker suit, but now have a twofold dilemma:
> First, what ties go best with a seersucker suit?
> Second: I have mild cerebral palsy, and as a result must wear shoes that are at least just above the ankle for support. So I don't know which shoes will work well with the suit. Help.


A good pair of Clark's desert boots would be nice, if that ankle is high enough for you. If not, possible one of Alden's cordovan boots in a lighter color.


----------



## Jack1425

Jovan said:


> They're basically super-low top thin socks that don't show when worn with loafers.
> 
> https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=10865&vid=1&pid=555740&scid=555740012


Jovan, I too appreciate the tidbit.. :icon_smile_big: (I know, it's the little things in life..)


----------



## obxsouth

Thanks for the advice, gentlemen. Would a regimental stripe work with seersucker?


----------



## randomdude

Are khaki trousers with a khaki seersucker jacket too much?


----------



## Jovan

patrickjc30 said:


> Thanks, been looking for something like that.





Jack1425 said:


> Jovan, I too appreciate the tidbit.. :icon_smile_big: (I know, it's the little things in life..)


You're welcome, gentlemen.  I'm getting a pair as soon as I have a bit of spending money and will let everyone know if they make much a difference.



randomdude said:


> Are khaki trousers with a khaki seersucker jacket too much?


I'd go for classic blue seersucker instead. Better contrast IMO.


----------



## randomdude

Jovan said:


> You're welcome, gentlemen.  I'm getting a pair as soon as I have a bit of spending money and will let everyone know if they make much a difference.
> 
> I'd go for classic blue seersucker instead. Better contrast IMO.


I already have a blue seersucker jacket but I found a gorgeous J. Crew khaki seersucker coat that fits perfectly. I was thinking that khakis and khaki seersucker coat is like a khaki suit but just different enough. With a green tie, perhaps?


----------



## isobel

I've just bought a pair of mid-brown shoes. Unfortunately my husband polished them for me...yes, it was a kind thought and I do appreciate it BUT he used the wrong colour polish! A sort of red brown that I do not like! It may, as he says, be the fashionable colour in Jermyn Street but I liked the shoes' original colour. Does anyone have any ideas on what I should do to remove the polish and get back to the original? Or do I just wear them and hope that it, eventually, fades/wears off?


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

obxsouth said:


> Two questions:
> I recently picked up a seersucker suit, but now have a twofold dilemma:
> First, what ties go best with a seersucker suit?
> Second: I have mild cerebral palsy, and as a result must wear shoes that are at least just above the ankle for support. So I don't know which shoes will work well with the suit. Help.


These would be phenomenal, but unless you're a 10 they may be tough to find:

As for ties, really most would work, regimental or otherwise. Navy is nice for a more understated look (if that's possible with seersucker), fire engine red is very traditional, but I also like bright greens, pinks, etc.


----------



## MHF

*Lapels on Southwick Sack*

I like this suit, but the lapels seem like they might be a bit too wide.

Can I get a ruling?


----------



## MHF

*Construction on Cole Haan Cordovans*

One more: can anyone tell whether these shoes are Goodyear-welted or Blake-stitched (or possibly Blake/Rapid, though I don't really know how to spot that)?


----------



## Reds & Tops

That shoe appears to be goodyear welted. 

Re: the suit, the seller has it incorrectly buttoned. The top button should be open. If I'm right, the lapels will fall nicely and look much better when just the middle button is closed.


----------



## DisplacedCarolinaGrad

Lurked on the forum here for a while but this is my first post. Have a wedding (in FL) coming up next weekend, and the rehearsal dinner is listed as "blazer and tie, shirt and tie, or full suit, your choice". I tend to avoid wearing a full (dark) suit unless I'm going to an interview or I'm at work, preferring instead to go out on a limb sartorially for social occasions. I have it narrowed to several choices but would like input on if any of them would be inappropriate.

1. BB Seersucker pants, ironed and creased, blue 2 button blazer, white BB OCBD, yellow regimental stripe bow tie
2. Light khaki linen suit (no idea the brand, it was my dad's...I think possibly custom tailored in Korea back in the early 80's?), light blue/white very faint plaid BB broadcloth spread collar, pink BB foulard tie
3. White linen pants with khaki linen or blue blazer, light pink BB OCBD, (can't figure out what tie would go here)

Also, any ideas for shoes? I normally wear sperrys with my seersuckers but don't want to wear them to an event at which at least some people will be wearing suits. I have a pair of light tan BB cap toe oxfords, would that work or do I need to go out and get some white or bone bucks?


----------



## CMDC

I would go with door number 1 and I think the shoes you have would be fine although I tend to like burgundy w/seersucker more than brown although it could just be my eye. I think the first outfit you propose is the most classic. Because its the pre wedding dinner going w/seersucker won't be too flashy. While FLA in the summer can be brutally hot and thus the linen might be cooler, its also a little less formal and can get wrinkly really quick.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

DisplacedCarolinaGrad said:


> Lurked on the forum here for a while but this is my first post. Have a wedding (in FL) coming up next weekend, and the rehearsal dinner is listed as "blazer and tie, shirt and tie, or full suit, your choice". I tend to avoid wearing a full (dark) suit unless I'm going to an interview or I'm at work, preferring instead to go out on a limb sartorially for social occasions. I have it narrowed to several choices but would like input on if any of them would be inappropriate.
> 
> 1. BB Seersucker pants, ironed and creased, blue 2 button blazer, white BB OCBD, yellow regimental stripe bow tie
> 2. Light khaki linen suit (no idea the brand, it was my dad's...I think possibly custom tailored in Korea back in the early 80's?), light blue/white very faint plaid BB broadcloth spread collar, pink BB foulard tie
> 3. White linen pants with khaki linen or blue blazer, light pink BB OCBD, (can't figure out what tie would go here)
> 
> Also, any ideas for shoes? I normally wear sperrys with my seersuckers but don't want to wear them to an event at which at least some people will be wearing suits. I have a pair of light tan BB cap toe oxfords, would that work or do I need to go out and get some white or bone bucks?


Hello and welcome! As a fellow Carolina grad and veteran of a few Floridian weddings, I hope I can offer some good advice. First, all of those would look great.

1. Depending on where in FL you are, seersucker may or may not be socially acceptable (although it should be, in my opinion).When I wear seersucker pants with a blue blazer, I wear my black bit loafers without socks. Black looks better than brown with seersucker, in my opinion. I have white bucks but find it difficult to wear them.

2. This is my favorite of the three, especially if some people will be wearing suits. Sounds like a sweet hand-me-down. And it sounds like you have the perfect shoes.

3. I would tend towards the khaki linen for this ensemble, but I agree with the difficulty of finding a tie. How about a Carolina blue tie, or brown (at the risk of being too monotone)?


----------



## DisplacedCarolinaGrad

Thanks for the input! I think I'm going with option 2--especially with the new information that this Thursday is seersucker Thursday, so I'll wear my seersucker on the plane down there. Very excited to get back to the East Coast for a weekend where I don't get looked at askance for dressing well.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

"Goin' where the climate suits my clothes...ain't no need for y'all be treatin' me this way."


----------



## MHF

*Suit Color: Black or Blue*

Seller describes this suit as black, but it looks blue to me. What do you think?


----------



## eagle2250

^^It looks like navy blue to me but, I'm not sure I would want to entrust such a call to the vagaries of color impressions from a computer monitor. Why not verify the color by asking the vendor?


----------



## PeterSawatzky

^ Looks like navy to me. Nice suit.


----------



## MHF

*Re: Suit Color: Black or Blue*

Gentlemen,

Thanks very much for the feedback. I could almost swear it's navy, but I went ahead and asked the seller. Here's hoping he changes his mind.

Thanks again,

MHF


----------



## inq89

*Sebago Purchase. Yay or Nay?*

Found a pair of Made in USA Sebago Loafers in burgandy on eBay. $25 total including s/h. Downside is that I'd have to resole it. Is this a good purchase?

Second part of question: How much does a typical resole cost if you go to a local shoesman? (This will be my first pair of loafers, so I'm an amateur at this stuff)


----------



## eagle2250

^^I guess it really depends on the condition of the uppers. By the time you pay the $25 for the shoes and the costs of a resoling job, you will have close to $100 invested in a pair of used shoes that probably didn't cost much more than that, when brand new! Were it me, I would look elsewhere!


----------



## Cardinals5

eagle2250 said:


> ^^I guess it really depends on the condition of the uppers. By the time you pay the $25 for the shoes and the costs of a resoling job, you will have close to $100 invested in a pair of used shoes that probably didn't cost much more than that, when brand new! Were it me, I would look elsewhere!


+1 Depending on the model, you can find Sebagos at or near $100 on-line. Unless a certain pair of loafers has great sentimental value, or perfectly broken in uppers, it's more cost effective just to purchase a new pair than have them resoled.


----------



## inq89

Wow, didn't realized it would be so expensive to resole shoes. Thanks for the input, I'll sit these shoes out!


----------



## SlowE30

FYI, Half soles at my small-town cobbler when I lived in Aiken, SC were under $25 (not including heels). I can't wait to get back and get several pairs of my shoes worked on there. You're in NC - you might be able to find a reasonably priced old-school shoe repair place. If not, drive to Aiken and keep mine in business!

Granted, $25 isn't worth it in some cases, like the too-large $50 used Park Avenues I got re-half-soled, and now have $75 shoes I don't wear instead of $50 shoes I don't wear.


----------



## randomdude

I've lost a good deal of weight recently, to the point that my 16.5 BB OCBD's are way too big for me. Except, the neck still is a good fit. So what should I do - go down to the size 16 OCBD or get the 16.5 in slim fit? 

Thanks.


----------



## Cardinals5

Congratulations on the weight loss!

I might suggest just having your current ocbds slimmed down by a tailor. I had a couple taken in recently - those traditional fit BB ocbds are gigantic - and it worked out quite well. Taking in the sides of a shirt is also fairly cheap - $10 per shirt by my tailor.


----------



## P Hudson

+1.

If the neck is good, and all you need is some trimming through the body, you get a "semi-custom" fit for a good price. I believe the sleeves can be taken in just as easily. I'm guessing that tailors are getting a lot of business with the change in style from blousey to fitted.


----------



## anglophile23

Can a cobbler stretch a pair of patent leather shoes? I have a pair of opera pumps that are comfortable except for about one square inch under the bow.


----------



## MHF

*Can This Blazer Be Saved?*

The wrinkles suggest that it was mistaken for a store-in-its-own-pocket parka. Is it beyond repair?


----------



## Reds & Tops

I see no reason why not; a good pressing should do the trick.


----------



## kevinbelt

I've seen worse. I think it should be OK.

-k


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Has anyone in the DC area been to St. Alban's Opportunity shop? 
I've had no luck finding things at the Salvation army stores in MD..


----------



## inq89

Does anyone know how slim the BB Clark chinos are? I'm a skinny fellow and would prefer the Milano fit, but I've found a great deal on some used Clarks in my size.

I've heard that the fit is very similar to LE Originals. Can anyone verify?


----------



## CMDC

^I've been to the St. Alban's shop and its very very small. They only had a few jackets and ties when I was there. Nothing of note. I've had good luck at the Salvation Army on Little River Turnpike in Alexandria, VA.


----------



## Jovan

Inquirer: If you're tall as well as skinny, all I can say is avoid the Milano fit. They are low in rise as well as slim.


----------



## inq89

I'm kind of tall (6'1 and 155lbs) so I'll stay away from the Milano fit and go with the Clark, which I've heard better reviews from anyway. Forgive me, but what does "low in rise" actually mean? (I know it refers to the crotch area..) Thanks for the reply.


----------



## kevinbelt

Rise is basically the distance from the waist to the crotch. A low-rise pant has less distance. If you wear a low-rise and a higher-rise pant at the same spot on your waist, the low-rise pant will feel more...constrictive.

-k


----------



## Jovan

It's the measurement from bottom of crotch seam to top of waistband, either in front or back. Manufacturers typically refer to just the front when giving _the_ "rise measurement," such as the Levi's website.

Low rise trousers have a proportionately lower front and back. I don't think they look very good, especially on tall/thin guys such as ourselves. It makes the torso look disproportionately long and legs appear stubby. It also exposes a lot of shirt beneath the waist button of a jacket, such as here.

Hope this was of some help.


----------



## inq89

That's great info guys thank you.


----------



## Walt Fields

*Pre and Post Alden & AE Restoration Pictures or Comments?*

Hello Everyone,

Can anyone speak or even better, show the pre and post Alden and AE full restoration? I have a couple of pairs that I may possibly send back but want to ensure that it is worth it vs. purchasing a new pair.

Does anyone know the average return timeline?

Thanks, 
Walt

"Fishing kills me as it keeps me alive" - Hemingway


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Walt Fields said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Can anyone speak or even better, show the pre and post Alden and AE full restoration? I have a couple of pairs that I may possibly send back but want to ensure that it is worth it vs. purchasing a new pair.
> 
> Does anyone know the average return timeline?
> 
> Thanks,
> Walt


Check out the Ode to the Alden 986 or LHS (whatever it's called) thread. Several people, but most notably McArthur, have shown their Alden LHS after restoration. I recall seeing a pair that might have been older than me on there and they looked fantastic after the restoration. The only complaint seems to be that they redye the shell, thus eliminating the unique patina. This happens even after including special instructions not to do so.

As for the return timeline, when I recently inquired about getting my Cape Cod bits restored,Joe at the DC Alden said that the factory is closed or something for the month of July. He said any other time and I could expect to have my shoes back, with new bags and trees included, in about 4 weeks or so.

I can't speak for AE, but I know that many people buy them used, only to get them restored.


----------



## stfu

Walt Fields said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Can anyone speak or even better, show the pre and post Alden and AE full restoration? I have a couple of pairs that I may possibly send back but want to ensure that it is worth it vs. purchasing a new pair.
> 
> Does anyone know the average return timeline?
> 
> Thanks,
> Walt
> 
> "Fishing kills me as it keeps me alive" - Hemingway


Let me piggy back here. I have seen several restoration photos, and they look great. But I am curious if anyone has restored calf loafers, and if they felt it was justified. It seems most restorations I see were performed on Shell uppers.


----------



## Walt Fields

*Great Question - Calf was my intended question*

SFU-

Great question. I was mainly speaking about the calf version. I know the shell works for everyone but is it really worth it for the others?

Bring on some calf restoration pictures!

Thanks, 
Walt

"Fishing kills me as it keeps me alive" - Hemingway


----------



## kevinbelt

What's with all the enmity toward cargo shorts? I don't wear them anymore, mostly because I rarely wear shorts at all anymore. If I could find a pair of cargo pants that fit like the shorts I had in college, though, I might consider it. Of all the sartorial sins out there today (polyester corporate logo polos with pleated no-iron slacks, hipsters), cargo shorts seem fairly venial. After all, they're just khakis with patch pockets, right?

-k


----------



## AdamsSutherland

kevinbelt said:


> What's with all the enmity toward cargo shorts? I don't wear them anymore, mostly because I rarely wear shorts at all anymore. If I could find a pair of cargo pants that fit like the shorts I had in college, though, I might consider it. Of all the sartorial sins out there today (polyester corporate logo polos with pleated no-iron slacks, hipsters), cargo shorts seem fairly venial. After all, they're just khakis with patch pockets, right?
> 
> -k


There are several reasons, that I believe, may have led to the disdain for cargo shorts. To put it shortly, no- they aren't just khakis with patch pockets. Just a few quick thoughts (In my humble and maybe overly strong opinion):

1) Abercrombie + Fitch- nothing more needs to be said.

2) The decline of American society's sartorial expectations during the past decade (and some) and their contemporaneous rise in popularity, both in the forms created and associated with the aforementioned retailer and the equally unsightly ubiquitous baggy pants/shorts phase that emerged due to the "acceptance" of sloppiness. There is nothing clean about the look, even when shrunk down and sewn onto a leaner pant/short. I'd make an exception with fishing shorts, something you'd wear flyfishing for bonefish in the Keys, but those are practical- which leads me to point 3.

3) The most important, I think: The complete uselessness of cargo pockets (for most people). Seriously, what on earth do you need cargo pockets for?

4) As it pertains to this forum, while there are several elements that the Ivy League and Trad style borrowed from military influences, cargo pockets are not among them.

That being said, everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions on anything and everything. But these are based on conversations I've had, and my own strong, and generally stifled, private opinions.

Hope everyone had a good and safe Fourth.


----------



## Alexander Carr

I've just ordered THIS watch, as you can see its black. Problem is all my belt buckles are silver, will i need to buy a new one to keep the metal matching? if so, any recomendations?

thanks,


----------



## eagle2250

^^My recommendation is to not worry about matching the metal on your watch with the metal of which your belt buckle is constructed!


----------



## Alexander Carr

eagle2250 said:


> ^^My recommendation is to not worry about matching the metal on your watch with the metal of which your belt buckle is constructed!


Thats one solution! :icon_smile: Do you not think it will look a bit 'thrown together', though?


----------



## wildcat121

*Judging shoe quality*

Hullo gentlemen; new guy here.

I'm trying to find a good pair of penny loafers, and I want to know what I should look/feel for when I try a pair on. I was near a Bass outlet recently and I decided against the Weejuns they had there because just holding them in my hands I felt like I could tear them apart. Insole glued in cheaply, heel felt like rough cardboard, etc.

When buying a leather loafer to be worn without shoes, should it be stiff and sharp on first wear and soften with time? I know more expensive shoes feel like glove leather right away, but what should I expect it to feel like upon first wear?

Finally, anyone know if the Bass' in the outlet are the same as the regular? And what do we think of the Dover, the new Weejun, as lauded in GQ?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

What's your budget?

And you are entirely correct in noticing that the current line of Weejuns are rather poorly made.


----------



## anglophile23

If you like the Weejuns but hate the poor construction, why not look on Ebay for Made in the USA versions? Thats how I got mine.


----------



## rorty

*Suit trouser cuffs*

Am I correct that 1 3/4" is the conventional trad cuff size? What about a break? No "flood pants" for me, but no desire to be using my trousers as floor mops, either! Your best advice on these subjects?


----------



## eagle2250

Alexander Carr said:


> Thats one solution! :icon_smile: Do you not think it will look a bit 'thrown together', though?


LOL! Perhaps but, it is all I can manage to properly coordinate my fabric and leather colors! Any more stress and they just might have to admit me to Ward D!


----------



## memphislawyer

Ok, maybe I am a doofus but I am trying to find a pair of shoes, other than a penny loafer, that can be worn with khakis/chinos, to jeans, to dress khaki and stone colored wool pants all year round, in a brown or similar shade. I kinda like the look of the AE Easton, or the Lambert (but not the chili color). I have a pair of Cole Haan Bergamo loafers that are dressy, thin sole and at times, too thin, in a tannish color that are so so. I have some Sperry topsiders but a little too casual. I was thinking maybe a laceup shoe, but then again, they sometimes can be too dressy with khakis. 

Am I wrong trying to find just one shoe? Sometimes I think the leather sole makes it dress, whereas rubber soles sometimes can be too casual.


----------



## Peak and Pine

wildcat121 said:


> When buying a leather loafer to be worn without shoes, should it be stiff and sharp on first wear?


Moot. Though it would be even stiffer if worn _with_ shoes.
​


----------



## Mad Hatter

memphislawyer said:


> Ok, maybe I am a doofus but I am trying to find a pair of shoes, other than a penny loafer, that can be worn with khakis/chinos, to jeans, to dress khaki and stone colored wool pants all year round, in a brown or similar shade. I kinda like the look of the AE Easton, or the Lambert (but not the chili color). I have a pair of Cole Haan Bergamo loafers that are dressy, thin sole and at times, too thin, in a tannish color that are so so. I have some Sperry topsiders but a little too casual. I was thinking maybe a laceup shoe, but then again, they sometimes can be too dressy with khakis.
> 
> Am I wrong trying to find just one shoe? Sometimes I think the leather sole makes it dress, whereas rubber soles sometimes can be too casual.


Have you ruled out something like dirty bucks/dirty saddles/chukka boots?


----------



## Ron_A

memphislawyer said:


> Ok, maybe I am a doofus but I am trying to find a pair of shoes, other than a penny loafer, that can be worn with khakis/chinos, to jeans, to dress khaki and stone colored wool pants all year round, in a brown or similar shade. I kinda like the look of the AE Easton, or the Lambert (but not the chili color). I have a pair of Cole Haan Bergamo loafers that are dressy, thin sole and at times, too thin, in a tannish color that are so so. I have some Sperry topsiders but a little too casual. I was thinking maybe a laceup shoe, but then again, they sometimes can be too dressy with khakis.
> 
> Am I wrong trying to find just one shoe? Sometimes I think the leather sole makes it dress, whereas rubber soles sometimes can be too casual.


Other than penny loafers, I would think that the plain-toe blucher falls into this category.


----------



## kevinbelt

Both the Easton and the Lambert look a little dressy to wear with jeans. Something like this from J.Crew would be my suggestion. If you're willing to look beyond strict trad, Doc Martens might also be an option.

-k


----------



## Jovan

rorty said:


> Am I correct that 1 3/4" is the conventional trad cuff size? What about a break? No "flood pants" for me, but no desire to be using my trousers as floor mops, either! Your best advice on these subjects?


1 3/4 - 2" is often called the "trad" turn-up size here, but I think you should be more guided by your height.

I think cuffs look better with little or no break, personally.


----------



## Joe Beamish

^ I wouldn't worry much about cuffs (or no cuffs) in most pants. I prefer cuffs on wool pants, and can go either way on cotton pants like khakis. I have a BB navy poplin sack suit with un-cuffed pants and this doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the suit in any way.

To Jovan's point, maybe that's because I'm short (5'8") and look better without cuffs. I used to worry about cuffs; now I don't really care. Other details (such as sleeve length) seem much more noticeable and important.

Most (or maybe all) of my cuffs are 1.75, so, to answer your question, if you're gonna cuff, do 1.75 -- in for a penny, in for a pound.


----------



## Jovan

Good advice.

I have a quick question myself -- I just received a pair of Florsheim pennies off of eBay, manufactured before they made everything overseas according to the seller. They sure feel this way. But to my question, can I polish a burgundy loafer with brown polish? They already look quite red-brown. Would this be desirable or look good? Thanks.


----------



## memphislawyer

Kevin and Ron: Yeah, I think Lambert or Easton would not work with khakis, but what about using the shoe with say dress wool pants in a lighter Khaki color, say in summer with a blue polo, or in winter with various sweaters, and then pairing it with a sportcoat and tie to say a casual dinner?

I have a pair of sueded Coach loafers, more pointed than the traditional penny loafer, and it also has a bit. A darker brown but not quite chocolate brown. I tend to think of that as a fall/winter shoe, maybe because of the color, and yes, that shoe tends to work well with the situations I mentioned above. For the Bills khakis, I use the Sperry topsider shoes or a Clark's Wallabee in a medium brown color.

I do like the idea of a chukka boot, but is that a year round shoe, say in Memphis with 90 degree weather and a polo shirt? 

My problem is that I am in a suit and tie 5 days a week and Sunday to church. In summer, if not at work, I am in khaki shorts or maybe black linen shorts, or I am wearing a light colored pair of wool pants. In winter, Bills Khakis or Banana Republic khakis, or a darker wool pant in khaki color. I dont really want too many brown shoes as they would not be used as much. I am more willing to invest in a black dress shoe as that is what I wear to work 5 days a week.


Edit: In a thread about the AE Clifton, here is what I said which maybe is a bit more detailed

I usually get too casual of a shoe, or I go full-on dress. My wardrobe goes to the business side heavily: grey, blue and black suits, one black sportscoat, one patterned sportscoat going to the black side, and mostly white shirts, with blue (solids more than patterns) being next and then two pink shirts (patterned and checked, lightly checked). For pants, most are khakis like Banana Republic, or grey and navy or the black patterned. A few pair of khaki and lighter colored wool slacks

So my shoes are mostly black - one pair of Park Avenue, one Hillcrest, one Cole Haan penny loafer, one black sueded low vamp loafer with bit, one Ferragamo rubber lug loafer with bit. For brown, I have a Cole Haan Bergamo loafer in brown, brown Coach sueded loafer with bit, Clark Wallabee boot with the desert brown leather, and then the Sperry brown topsider.

See, I have no brown shoes really to wear with dress khaki wool or a grey and the shoes to go with khakis are really, really casual. My thinking, before this thread, was that the Clifton, or the Lambert, or the Easton, all AE shoes, are too formal. The leather sole kinda makes me feel 'dress'. I am thinking that a laceup shoe bridges that gap for me between dress and casual, and that the balmoral screams dress. Maybe the cap toe and slight broguing on the Clifton lets it go both ways, or maybe, as one poster has said, it is in a nether world. That is, it is too formal for Banana Republic khakis and then too casual for when you pair it with a coat and tie. My wife says that the Lambert (which I love for the pebblegrain) is too 'old-mannish"

Any suggestions for me?


----------



## Piscator

Jovan said:


> I think cuffs look better with little or no break, personally.


Definitely agree.

For me, a pant with no cuff dictates the necessity of a bit more break. I'm not sure why...


----------



## rorty

*Mercer shirt collars*

In addition to button-down collars, Mercer also makes shirts with a 2 7/8" "straight point collar" and another version Mercer calls its "modified straight collar" with a bit wider spread. From reading posts on this forum I have learned that "spread collar" is a dreaded description. However, on many straight point collars I have seen, the tie knot seems oddly hidden beneath the collar. Would Mercer's "modified straight collar" be acceptably traditional or too "way out" for the purists among you? The hidden tie knot is as aesthetically troubling to me as the "flying points" of a poorly made collar, where the collar points do not rest comfortably on the shirt front. Any thoughts on Mercer's "modified straight collar", particularly from anyone who had gone that route?


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

"spread collar" is dreaded?
Funny, I much prefer a spread to point (unless it's a stay-less point), I've certainly seen many trad spread collars, including a couple great old BB shirts I have with shortish spread collars that make the wearer look like a G-man.


----------



## Patrick06790

rorty said:


> In addition to button-down collars, Mercer also makes shirts with a 2 7/8" "straight point collar" and another version Mercer calls its "modified straight collar" with a bit wider spread.
> 
> ...Any thoughts on Mercer's "modified straight collar", particularly from anyone who had gone that route?


I don't know about the modified straight, but the standard straight from Mercer is a good look. It's a soft collar, even with the stays, and unless you starch the crap out of it will have a more relaxed look to it.

Mercer's straight collar shirts are one the very few I will wear without a tie. There's not enough collar to give that "swallows to Capistrano" effect.


----------



## rorty

Nice to learn from an expert like Patrick that the Mercer straight collar will not flap in the breeze, but does the Mercer straight collar overlay the tie knot to the extent it appears to struggle to peep out from behind collar fabric or would a moderate-sized knot stand proud and independent of the collar, in full view of all admirers in an adequate tie space? Further, does a collar described as a "moderate spread" offend a trad's sensibilities? Is there any trad precedent for a cautiously spread collar, in addition to the conventional straight collar and the ubiquitous button-down? Would a pious trad point at someone with Mercer's "moderate(ly) spread collar" with disdain and say, "wrong, so very wrong"?


----------



## Patrick06790

Here's the standard Mercer straight collar, sans stays for funk.

It's an unlined tie, which makes for a smaller knot, but a lined tie would have plenty of room here.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Wow!
Really like the spread on that.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

*Shell or Not?*

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=120444315987

I was thinking not as they lack cordovan's glossy sheen. However, I'm not familiar with C&J's shell offerings, who I'm guessing is the maker.

Any thoughts?


----------



## inq89

What and how many winter jackets/coats would you recommend for a grad student? We have a "business casual" dress code and I'd like to reserve my Columbia and Patagonia jackets for the weekend.

I already have a black pea coat from Old Navy that I don't mind keeping. So I was thinking a JCrew university or car coat, but they're well out of my price range (<$100). Hoping to look for something with insulation because I tend to get cold easily and the weather here can get into the upper 20s in the winter.

I've heard great things about Barbour, but are they insulated enough? And are they too "outdoorsy" for a professional?


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

Barbour may be out of your price range, but I'd recommend them highly. If you get a liner (now they're all zip-in, I think), they can be quite warm. Some may disagree, but I think a Barbour jacket over a suit looks great. Try the Border for this.


----------



## anglophile23

I'd also recomend a Barbour, but remember it is meant to be worn either witht a liner, sweater or sport/suit coat. Check the Fishing the Cape website for discount Barbours. I got mine there for 50% off.


----------



## erbs

How much do BB must-iron oxfords shrink in the sleeve length with repeated washing? I just got three shirts in a 34" sleeve which is perfect right now, but I'm worried that they will shrink and be too short. Should I exchange them for a 35" sleeve?


----------



## Piscator

^ I've not had any problems with shrinkage...however, I only hang dry my shirts.


----------



## randomdude

What's a good alternative to the J. Crew Sutherland trench coat? I like a sporty, inexpensive cotton trench coat but the SML sizing doesn't work for me. LE options are 100% poly, which I don't like. I want cotton!


----------



## Jovan

I wish I could find old-fashioned bonded cotton trench coats myself. All this Scotchgard, nylon, and polyester business don't have quite the same class as the oldies.

If anyone sees a listing for a vintage one in 40L, let me know!


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

*What color tie with olive suit?*

Since I purchased this BB olive suit last summer (Brooks Ease), I've been struggling to find ties that work well with it. Predominantly navy ties and lime green have seen some success, but I need some more ideas. Yesterday, the fellow at BB suggested I wear a shiny olive-colored tie. I disagreed.

Any advice?

Here's the only picture I have, with the lime green tie. Please excuse the awkward pose. I cropped out the other parties to protect their innocence.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Since I purchased this BB olive suit last summer (Brooks Ease), I've been struggling to find ties that work well with it. Predominantly navy ties and lime green have seen some success, but I need some more ideas. Yesterday, the fellow at BB suggested I wear a shiny olive-colored tie. I disagreed.
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Here's the only picture I have, with the lime green tie. Please excuse the awkward pose. I cropped out the other parties to protect their innocence.


I'll answer my own question: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/Clothes Articles/ColorReality.htm


----------



## hbs midwest

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Since I purchased this BB olive suit last summer (Brooks Ease), I've been struggling to find ties that work well with it. Predominantly navy ties and lime green have seen some success, but I need some more ideas. Yesterday, the fellow at BB suggested I wear a shiny olive-colored tie. I disagreed.
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> Here's the only picture I have, with the lime green tie. Please excuse the awkward pose. I cropped out the other parties to protect their innocence.


I have been wearing olive poplin off-and-on for several generations; I tend to treat it as a subspecies of khaki...repps and regimentals with navy, red (varying darker shades--barn red is especially good), burgundy, hunter, or gold themes have worked well. Also might try foulard or ancient madder prints of similar coloration. For a more "summery" effect, try a butter yellow ground with a print in a combination of navy/red/green or khaki.

Enjoy your classic attire.:icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## TDI GUY

*J.Press Seersucker Question*

Is there any chance the J.Press Seersucker suit (separates) will be discounted any further? If so, how much and when?


----------



## Alexander Carr

Can somebody explain to me the rules of shoe and jeans colours please. I have a nice pair of dark brown shoes which goes well with blue jeans, but are they ok with black jeans? 

And, if i was to wear black jeans, is black shoes a necessity?


----------



## anglophile23

^ If you like the way they a jean/shoe combo looks then go for it.


----------



## Alexander Carr

anglophile23 said:


> ^ If you like the way they a jean/shoe combo looks then go for it.


Thats a good way of looking at it i suppose, but im not the most clued up person on clothing at the moment 

Here's a picture for illustration, wearing dark olive green socks;








(Sorry for the picture quality)


----------



## Reddington

Alexander Carr said:


> I have a nice pair of dark brown shoes which goes well with blue jeans, but are they ok with black jeans?
> 
> And, if i was to wear black jeans, is black shoes a necessity?


The shoes are fine. The black jeans are the problem.


----------



## Calvin500

*JAB SS Suits*

All,

Okay, I doubt JAB Seersucker Suits are going to get much cheaper than this. Should I pull the trigger? 3-button or 2? 3 is $50; 2 is $65. I've heard folk say that you can destroy a jacket by pressing it in a way not true to its construction essence. Is there any way to 3/2 roll press a 3-button jacket? Finally, does $50 or $65 even represent true value on this suit?

3 Button.

2 Button.

Thanks, all.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Normally I prefer a three button (3R2) design but, in this case, the two button model strikes me as more desirable. Not sure why...perhaps it's the elevated button stance of the JAB jackets?


----------



## TDI GUY

Calvin500-
O'Connell's has their seersucker suit on sale right now:

https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/suits.php

Its $276, which is significantly more than the JAB suits, but you will get an American made 3/2 sack with natural shoulders (unless they have changed, the shoulders on JAB suits tend to be very bulky), etc. If you think you will wear it with some regularity, might not be a bad investment.


----------



## Calvin500

Thanks, Eagle and TDI.


----------



## MHF

*Narrowing During Recraft*

I have a pair of Allen-Edmonds Bradleys in shell cordovan that I will soon be sending in for a recraft. The size is 10E, but i would like to narrow them to a D width. Will AE do this? (I know it has been discussed generally, but I would like to know if anyone has experience with AE.)

Thanks,

MHF


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

MHF said:


> I have a pair of Allen-Edmonds Bradleys in shell cordovan that I will soon be sending in for a recraft. The size is 10E, but i would like to narrow them to a D width. Will AE do this? (I know it has been discussed generally, but I would like to know if anyone has experience with AE.)
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> MHF


It appears so (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=95872&highlight=recrafting+width), but it's best just to ask them.


----------



## MHF

In the interest of closing the loop on this, AE customer service has informed me that they cannot change the size of my shoes during the recrafting process. 

Based on other threads, it seems that recrafting sometimes leaves shoes fitting a bit more snugly than before, so maybe that will cover me.

Thanks for your reply.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

anglophile23 said:


> I'd also recomend a Barbour, but remember it is meant to be worn either witht a liner, sweater or sport/suit coat. Check the Fishing the Cape website for discount Barbours. I got mine there for 50% off.


They have some good deals, do you know if they get new stock in, or change which items are on sale?

I'm in a bit of conundrum, as I have a really nice barbour riding coat, but I haven't been on a horse for years, and it's too ridiculous to wear anywhere else (very long, with leg straps), I'm considering just chopping it off at about mid-thigh.

I


----------



## C. Sharp

TDI GUY said:


> Calvin500-
> O'Connell's has their seersucker suit on sale right now:
> 
> https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/suits.php
> 
> Its $276, which is significantly more than the JAB suits, but you will get an American made 3/2 sack with natural shoulders (unless they have changed, the shoulders on JAB suits tend to be very bulky), etc. If you think you will wear it with some regularity, might not be a bad investment.


I agree. Reminds me of my old Brooks Brothers seersucker suits. It cost you a dollar a wear if you wear it 276 times. Does not seem to be a bad price to be perfectly happy with a suit.


----------



## emc894

I think I want a patent slip on rather than lace up, is that a faux pas?

What does the forum think of these?


----------



## Jovan

They're definitely not the traditional opera pump with bow, but the elastic gore at the side makes them look even worse IMO and should be saved for Chelsea boots.


----------



## TDI GUY

C. Sharp said:


> I agree. Reminds me of my old Brooks Brothers seersucker suits. It cost you a dollar a wear if you wear it 276 times. Does not seem to be a bad price to be perfectly happy with a suit.


Additionally, shipping is only $5 and hemming is free.


----------



## inq89

*Wool pants*

I'm looking for options other than khakis and cords for a business casual/professional school setting. Can someone suggest wool pants? And the color and cloth I should look for? Or can I get a thrifted pair, even if they were most likely from a suit?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Grey wool gabardine and flannels are good options. As for brand, I think it depends on how much your budget allows...

You certainly can't go wrong with options from Brooks and Press. Maybe even Banks? I've never looked at their gabs though.


----------



## TDI GUY

^Gabs or tropical weight worsteds would work and come in a variety of colors. For a low end option, Lands End isn't bad. The fabric isn't the best, nor is the color selection, but I like their tailored fit in the year 'rounders and gabs.

You might also consider dress twill. Brooks currently has their Country Club dress twills on sale basically two for the price of one (plus 15% AAAC discount). I have two pairs on order, so I can't comment on quality, fit, etc. yet, though I am hopeful. These also can be hemmed for free (though in a more limited color selection).


----------



## kevinbelt

+1 on gray flannels. Pretty sharp. If you're looking on the low end, though, beware of polyester. I saw a pair of $100 Banana Republic flannels that were 60% poly - spend a little more and get real wool.

-k


----------



## inq89

Thanks all for the replys. So can I buy a thrifted pair (which were probably from a suit) or buy one that is specifically a standalone...I know there are sartorial rules for suit jackets v. sportcoats and was wondering if it also applies to pants.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

inquirer89 said:


> Thanks all for the replys. So can I buy a thrifted pair (which were probably from a suit) or buy one that is specifically a standalone...I know there are sartorial rules for suit jackets v. sportcoats and was wondering if it also applies to pants.


Well if you were to find a pair of pinstripe or checked pants, that clearly looked as if they belonged with a matching jacket, then I would skip them. You're fine with solids though.


----------



## Jovan

inquirer89 said:


> Thanks all for the replys. So can I buy a thrifted pair (which were probably from a suit) or buy one that is specifically a standalone...I know there are sartorial rules for suit jackets v. sportcoats and was wondering if it also applies to pants.


If the thrifted pair have a jacket with them and it fits you, you may as well get it too. Otherwise I don't think there's any very specific rules.


----------



## emc894

I just got back from a store trying on Alden Balmorals. 10D seemed slightly too largeand 9.5D seemed slightly too narrow. Whats an ideal fit for a brand new dress shoe?

Thanks a lot, I am in college and don't know too much. 

Also, I figured a plain black cap toe bal would be best because I could also wear it with evening clothes (I realize this is a minor faux pas). I'm unsure whether or not to shell out for cordovan (sorry, could not resist)


----------



## AdamsSutherland

emc894 said:


> I just got back from a store trying on Alden Balmorals. 10D seemed slightly too small and 9.5D seemed slightly too narrow. Whats an ideal fit for a brand new dress shoe?
> 
> Thanks a lot, I am in college and don't know too much.
> 
> Also, I figured a plain black cap toe bal would be best because I could also wear it with evening clothes (I realize this is a minor faux pas). I'm unsure whether or not to shell out for cordovan (sorry, could not resist)


If the 10D was too small, why'd you try the 9.5D?

Welcome to the forum, it's nice to see another college student join the ranks. Shell is great, but I don't know if it makes sense to wear $600 shoes out at night...


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

*French cuff question*

I realize that few people, if any, will notice, but I thought I'd ask y'all anyway. Would it be incongruous for me to wear LHSs sans socks with a french cuffed royal oxford? The rest of the ensemble is khaki linen pants, silk-linen blend navy sport coat, and a light blue and pink tie.

I'll probably rock it anyway, but I'd like to know the standard rule, if there is one.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I'm sure Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger, among others, would personally pull off a look like that at some summer occasion.

I sometimes wish there _were_ rules; I'm not a fan of the sock-less look except in very casual situations -- the same situations where I would be unlikely to applaud french cuffs. But that's me.

As your post indicates, even if there were a rule, you probably wouldn't follow it. (Rules would be more fun...breaking them; but you're right: People don't notice much.)


----------



## emc894

AdamsSutherland said:


> If the 10D was too small, why'd you try the 9.5D?
> 
> Welcome to the forum, it's nice to see another college student join the ranks. Shell is great, but I don't know if it makes sense to wear $600 shoes out at night...


sorry I meant slightly too large. I guess I would like to know how much they stretch.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

9.5E maybe? How was the width in the 10's?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

*Orphaned Tan Poplin Jacket*

I found a tan poplin 3/2 sack today that fit perfectly. It was from some old shop in NJ that I had never heard of before. I picked it up thinking it might be possible to wear with navy poplin pants or jeans maybe?

Does anyone have any thoughts on trying to rescue orphaned poplin? I did a search and found the navy/jeans suggestion but I figure I'd get some fresh thoughts on the subject.


----------



## Reds & Tops

AdamsSutherland said:


> I found a tan poplin 3/2 sack today that fit perfectly. It was from some old shop in NJ that I had never heard of before. I picked it up thinking it might be possible to wear with navy poplin pants or jeans maybe?
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on trying to rescue orphaned poplin? I did a search and found the navy/jeans suggestion but I figure I'd get some fresh thoughts on the subject.


I think both Navy poplin and a solid pair of jeans would look quite good with that. It will look great the more beat up it gets, as well.


----------



## randomdude

Anyone have experience with Orvis trousers? They look nice.


----------



## C. Sharp

randomdude said:


> Anyone have experience with Orvis trousers? They look nice.


Sorry, no but they do look nice. The fabric is an old time classic. I remember a pair I believe called Newcastle from orvis that also looked nice.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Stupid question I know, but I've never really understood if suede shoes have a season, and if so which one(s).

I'd thought of the as a fall thing, but see enough of them in the summer that...


----------



## Jovan

IIRC, white or cream suede is more of a summer thing, whereas brown suede is the one attributed to fall.


----------



## yeahyeah

Q: What's your favorite cheap, off-the-rack 2-button navy jacket for tough wear (travel, bus riding, etc.)? Please no brass or pewter buttons, no crests, no zippers. Thanks in advance.


----------



## closerlook

yeahyeah said:


> Q: What's your favorite cheap, off-the-rack 2-button navy jacket for tough wear (travel, bus riding, etc.)? Please no brass or pewter buttons, no crests, no zippers. Thanks in advance.


Some here wouldn't consider a navy coat without brass buttons a grab and go type blazer, seeing it more as an abandoned suit jacket.

that said, for those who don't like the brass look, you'd probably have to get a coat that is distinctively a sport coat in details to pull it off as an odd shell.
one way might be to shoot for patch pockets, when using navy buttons.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I gree that brass can look a little much what about buying blazer and replacing the buttons with pewter, horn, or leather?


----------



## yeahyeah

Great ideas.

I'm not opposed to brass buttons, but I already have my USN jackets and overcoat. Some gents have nice school buttons that they wear with pride. I'd feel uncomfortable wearing generic fillers that imply service and accomplishments undone.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

I like pewter and horn as alternatives. I've seen Mother-of-Pearl as well, that looked good, although the look was hardly trad.


----------



## Grundie

Can anyone reccomend a good store to purchase trad clothing and accesories in or around Syracuse, NY?

There's no Brooks Brothers, nor even a JoS. A. Banks. My wifes parents, who live there, don't know of any other stores that would have what I'm looking for either. Still, there must be somethign in a city of that size?


----------



## Reddington

Grundie said:


> Can anyone reccomend a good store to purchase trad clothing and accesories in or around Syracuse, NY?
> 
> There's no Brooks Brothers, nor even a JoS. A. Banks. My wifes parents, who live there, don't know of any other stores that would have what I'm looking for either. Still, there must be somethign in a city of that size?


Try to get over to Buffalo and visit O'Connell's. 
https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/

Cheers.
Reddington


----------



## randomdude

Opinions on these J. Crew cords?

Too much? Or just right with a blazer or navy sweater?


----------



## Duck

randomdude said:


> Opinions on these J. Crew cords?
> 
> Too much? Or just right with a blazer or navy sweater?


A little too "hipster" for me. Cords shouldn't be modeled after the fit of jeans.


----------



## Ron_A

^ I would tend to agree with Duck regarding the cranberry cord jeans.


----------



## Jovan

Cord jeans have been around forever. Nothing "hipster" about it at all.


----------



## Duck

Jovan said:


> Cord jeans have been around forever. Nothing "hipster" about it at all.


I assume by this you wear them. I called them hipster because that is the uniform for the Richmond hipsters. Didn't mean to offend.

If your going to wear cords with a tie, blazer, etc. get a wider wale and get em cuffed.


----------



## Jovan

I don't wear them, I just don't think of them as particularly hipsterish.


----------



## Ron_A

I can't quite put my finger on it, but I thought that these J. Crew corduroy jeans looked a little "different" than the ones that you typically see offered at LL Bean or Lands' End (a little more "hipsterish", as Duck put it). I don't think that 5-pocket corduroy jeans, in a more conservative cut and color, necessarily would look bad (although I wouldn't wear them with a blazer).


----------



## Joe Beamish

In season (and also sometimes during this very atypical summer), I often wear brown Levi's cords (boot cut, no cuffs) with an OCBD, navy sack blazer, and pennies or Clark desert boots. Sometimes with a tie (usually a knit).

But I make a pathetic hipster, lacking tattoos and a smug attitude and probably a bunch of other things. I don't use the word "hipster" very much. I prefer the usual term "indie dude".

I think of myself as a dusty, slightly disarranged version of a trad guy with very little attitude involved. The cords work. Most people think I'm dressed to the nines most the time. People on the subway calling me "sir".



Duck said:


> I assume by this you wear them. I called them hipster because that is the uniform for the Richmond hipsters. Didn't mean to offend.
> 
> If your going to wear cords with a tie, blazer, etc. get a wider wale and get em cuffed.


----------



## randomdude

^ Interesting discussion, when I posted this morning I thought you all would have a problem with the COLOR, not the fit.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

^
Yeah, I don't mind 5-pocket cords (actually seen plenty of tweedy old gentlemen wearing them in the countryside), or bright red/cranberry cords (for holidays etc) but together...


----------



## Duck

Joe Beamish said:


> In season (and also sometimes during this very atypical summer), I often wear brown Levi's cords (boot cut, no cuffs) with an OCBD, navy sack blazer, and pennies or Clark desert boots. Sometimes with a tie (usually a knit).
> 
> But I make a pathetic hipster, lacking tattoos and a smug attitude and probably a bunch of other things. I don't use the word "hipster" very much. I prefer the usual term "indie dude".
> 
> I think of myself as a dusty, slightly disarranged version of a trad guy with very little attitude involved. The cords work. Most people think I'm dressed to the nines most the time. People on the subway calling me "sir".


Joe I have a feeling we would be good friends.

However
I am a just a good ole boy that likes the wide wales.


----------



## Duck

randomdude said:


> ^ Interesting discussion, when I posted this morning I thought you all would have a problem with the COLOR, not the fit.


RD

I have a couple of pics in red cords here. I will try to find them for you but it will be tomorrow before I can do that. Pics are on my harddrive at the office


----------



## Ron_A

Joe Beamish said:


> In season (and also sometimes during this very atypical summer), I often wear brown Levi's cords (boot cut, no cuffs) with an OCBD, navy sack blazer, and pennies or Clark desert boots. Sometimes with a tie (usually a knit).


JB, I'm sure that you can pull this off, and it actually sounds like it could be a good look on the right individual. The outfit that you described reminds me of my junior high math teacher's wardrobe (which actually is a compliment, as I thought that he was well-dressed).


----------



## Grundie

Reddington said:


> Try to get over to Buffalo and visit O'Connell's.
> https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/
> 
> Cheers.
> Reddington


Thanks! That looks like just what I am after. However, my wife tells me it is a three hours drive away - that won't stop me.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Grundie said:


> Thanks! That looks like just what I am after. However, my wife tells me it is a three hours drive away - that won't stop me.


I'm sure it will be well worth your trip. It is a Trad mecca of sorts.


----------



## Grundie

AdamsSutherland said:


> I'm sure it will be well worth your trip. It is a Trad mecca of sorts.


Would anyone know of anything similar in or around Cape Cod? I've just found out that I'm spending a week there and it would be shame to be there and not look for some trad clothing...

...and lobster, yummy!


----------



## burton

AdamsSutherland said:


> I'm sure it will be well worth your trip. It is a Trad mecca of sorts.


No question it is worth the trip. Add on a jaunt to Niagara Falls (Nia Falls Blvd, which leads from Buffalo to Niagara Falls, terminates about 3 blocks from OConnells) and you have a complete itinerary.


----------



## Herrsuit

*Cape Cod*



Grundie said:


> Would anyone know of anything similar in or around Cape Cod? I've just found out that I'm spending a week there and it would be shame to be there and not look for some trad clothing...
> 
> ...and lobster, yummy!


I've spent a lot of time on the cape. I can't think of anything that would qualify as a Mecca, though most men's shops around there are definitely Traddy. Also, you pay more for less once you cross the canal.


----------



## Bob_Brooks

*Belt and Color Question*

So I picked up this Smathers and Branson Belt this weekend my question is do I treat this like a black belt and only wear it with black shoes or can I wear brown shoes with the belt?
Thanks in advance!


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I say wear either color.

Great belt, I spot a couple of my brand on it.



Here's my question (one which I'm almost afraid to ask here):
Does anyone know of a source for a proper, kindof old fashioned wool baseball cap?
I've seen a couple (on strangers, in old movies) I'm looking for something in off-white, blue or red with a brown brim.
Checked out Orvis, Bean Cabelas, no luck.
I just want it to wear fishing, and when I actually play baseball.


----------



## Moose Maclennan

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> ...Does anyone know of a source for a proper, kindof old fashioned wool baseball cap?...


https://www.ebbets.com/category/Ballcaps


----------



## C. Sharp

I believe this is the source for the Ebbets field ball caps.
https://www.ballcap.com/



Moose Maclennan said:


> https://www.ebbets.com/category/Ballcaps


----------



## Zon Jr.

edited


----------



## Joe Beamish

Thanks for posting; my dad will love the cap I'm going to send him. Big old Brooklyn Dodgers fan from way back.



C. Sharp said:


> I believe this is the source for the Ebbets field ball caps.
> https://www.ballcap.com/


----------



## C. Sharp

Your Welcome. They make good stuff. No team is to obscure for them.



Joe Beamish said:


> Thanks for posting; my dad will love the cap I'm going to send him. Big old Brooklyn Dodgers fan from way back.


----------



## C. Sharp

randomdude said:


> Anyone have experience with Orvis trousers? They look nice.





C. Sharp said:


> Sorry, no but they do look nice. The fabric is an old time classic. I remember a pair I believe called Newcastle from orvis that also looked nice.


To late to edit last post. These are the pants I mentioned above.


----------



## randomdude

^ Thanks for the tip. I actually bought the Donegal tweed pants and they're excellent.


----------



## C. Sharp

Great to hear. I am glad it worked out for you.:icon_smile:



randomdude said:


> ^ Thanks for the tip. I actually bought the Donegal tweed pants and they're excellent.


----------



## Naval Gent

My AAAC Brooks Brothers Corporate Card expires this month. Will they automatically send me a new one?

Thanks,

Scott


----------



## randomdude

^ Good question, I've wondered about this myself.


----------



## Monocoque

Question!

I just got a nice-looking gray corduroy sport coat from H&M (surprisingly good store).

What pants can I wear with it besides blue jeans? It looks really nice with a green dress shirt and dark wash jeans, but I was wanting to wear some khakis with it, and all my khakis look goofy.

I would post a pic but my camera is 50 miles away right now.

Thanks!


----------



## anglophile23

Naval Gent said:


> My AAAC Brooks Brothers Corporate Card expires this month. Will they automatically send me a new one?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott


I've asked this before and didn't recieve an answer. Hope you have beter luck than I did.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Kind of a silly question about laundry:

Do you separate 
"whites" and "darks" (in this instance, dark being anything that isn't white)
or 
"lights" and "darks" (i.e. whites and light blues, light pinks etc washed together)

Also, are you like me and avoid throwing _anything_ red or madras in with anything else for fear of colors running?

Weird question I know, I was talking laundry with some people over the weekend...


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Lights and darks seperated.

But most important; undies from everything else.

I was freaked out by our host who threw in the kitchen towels with their undies once. 

While I was a good guest and said nothing, underneath I was :crazy: and did not use the towels until I descretely laundered them again!!


----------



## Jovan

I separate by:
-Darks (black and dark navy)
-Cool colours (blue, green, purple)
-Warm colours (red, orange, yellow)
-Neutrals (khaki, grey, stone, etc.)
-Whites

However, I will throw in light blues with whites and some light towels when it comes to dress shirts.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I wash OCBDs (whites, blues, and uni-stripes) as a class and with no other item of clothing, and hang 'em dry. The same generally goes for khakis, except that I usually drop off the nice ones (Bills that haven't devolved to beater status) with the cleaners. Some khakis (J. Crew) get washed with other "light" colors in warm water, including sheets and towels, separate from darks.


----------



## hbs midwest

Naval Gent said:


> My AAAC Brooks Brothers Corporate Card expires this month. Will they automatically send me a new one?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Scott


Cover your tracks, Sir.

Check in with your local BB retail store or call BB customer service...may have to escalate up the chain of command to get a real answer.:icon_smile:

hbs


----------



## Grundie

AdamsSutherland said:


> I'm sure it will be well worth your trip. It is a Trad mecca of sorts.


I went and I spent far too much. Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Jovan

What did you get?


----------



## Grundie

Jovan said:


> What did you get?


Enough to make my debit card melt!

Three wool v-necks in burgundy, red and camel.
2 pairs of O'Connell's own Khakis.
A few dress shirts.
An O'Connell blazer.
and various pieces of hosiery and underwear.

My wife despairs.

Photos will be forthcoming when I find a card reader than can handle a 16GB SD card.


----------



## Jovan

How are the O'Connell's items? I've resisted getting their khakis because they have a 20" leg opening and it might not look right to taper them down.


----------



## Grundie

Jovan said:


> How are the O'Connell's items? I've resisted getting their khakis because they have a 20" leg opening and it might not look right to taper them down.


I haven't really had a chance to to wear the khakis yet as they need a hem adjustment. But from trying them on in the store they did feel roomy at the bottom, but that suits me as I have very thick legs and I fill them out.

Quality wise they are impressive. i would expect to get many years use out fo them. The stitching feels very strong and they just feel well built.


----------



## mjo_1

A while back someone posted explanations of J Press suit and jacket item numbers and how to determine from them where the item was made. Does anyone know this from memory or have that post bookmarked? 

Thanks!



Michael


----------



## C. Sharp

Is this what you are looking for https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showpost.php?p=965764&postcount=33


mjo_1 said:


> A while back someone posted explanations of J Press suit and jacket item numbers and how to determine from them where the item was made. Does anyone know this from memory or have that post bookmarked?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Michael


----------



## mjo_1

Exactly! Thanks so much!


Michael


----------



## C. Sharp

Your Welcome. Glad to be of help.



mjo_1 said:


> Exactly! Thanks so much!
> 
> Michael


----------



## randomdude

Right or wrong: to wear light gray wool trousers with a cricket sweater vest that is white with navy/burgundy trim, with a white OCBD, and a blue blazer? All the pics I've seen haven't shown cricket sweaters with gray trousers, it seems like that'd be a natural fit, especially under a blazer.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Sounds fine, esp if it's a more casual wool trouser.

Honestly, I have trouble wearing a cricket sweater period without looking like a RL ad, cricket player, or villain from an 80s teen movie.


----------



## Herrsuit

I haven't worn an OCBD since I was in high school, but I'm having a sudden urge to get a few. What is the best OCBD around these days?


----------



## AldenPyle

Herrsuit said:


> I haven't worn an OCBD since I was in high school, but I'm having a sudden urge to get a few. What is the best OCBD around these days?


Its a good question but the answer might not be that short. BB Trad or Slim Fit, BBBF, JPress, LE, LLBean, even Polo all have good points. Plus there's upscale stuff and M2M.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Edge dressing....

Until yesterday I didn't know that edge dressing came in both black and dark brown, do you use dark brown edge dressing on burgany/brown shoes and black on black?


----------



## HistoryDoc

Who makes the Brooks Brothers Calfskin Plaintoe Blucher pictured here?


----------



## boatshoe

HistoryDoc said:


> Who makes the Brooks Brothers Calfskin Plaintoe Blucher pictured here?


It looks like Alden.


----------



## hbs midwest

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Edge dressing....
> 
> Until yesterday I didn't know that edge dressing came in both black and dark brown, do you use dark brown edge dressing on burgany/brown shoes and black on black?


I use black edge dressing on both Burgundy/cordovan and black...personal preference, not an article of the Nicene Creed.

hbs


----------



## randomdude

Thoughts on Orvis chukkas?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
From the pictures, they certainly appear to be quite well made and Orvis does guarantee your satisfaction. At the tent sale price, how could you go wrong? If they have a pair that will provide a proper fit, go for it!


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Yeah, I like the Orvis shoes as well. And the price is pretty good. 

Boy, that Orvis sale is a bit odd. It advertises your ability to get their products more cheaply if you wait--and they are still in stock. I'm not sure it makes for great salesmanship to inform customers that you can get something more cheaply if you hold off for awhile. But I don't work in sales, so what do I know?


----------



## Reds & Tops

Wish they had my size. That's a good looking boot. 

I haven't been up to the Manchester store in a long while...I miss it.


----------



## Jovan

I've seen these short, presumably cotton cream socks in _Take Ivy_ as well as some other photos from around that time. The socks came in a little higher than modern quarter length but not quite mid-calf. I love how chunky the rib is on them. They look great for casual wear with boat shoes or loafers.

My question: Are these still made in some capacity or am I S.O.O.L.?


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Jovan, I know exactly what you are talking about.

Polo had some a year or so ago, with an unfortunate, but small skull logo near the top. I face the logo towards the inside and wear them loose around the top and it disappears.
Dillards had them for something like $1.50 (when I bought them), but they're probably out by now, maybe the polo outlet?


----------



## C. Sharp

Are these the socks https://www.tias.com/11382/PictPage/1922301215.html

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=70416

What is available today https://www.sockcompany.com/625.html


----------



## Joe Beamish

I like these Wigwam 625's for my substantial cream sock needs. I bought mine on Amazon, I think. They hold up (literally on the calf, and figuratively over time) like the devil. After a few washings they turn a creamy color.


----------



## Jovan

Thanks for the help guys. I thought I might be insane for trying to find such an obscure piece of Americana, but it seems there are people of like minds.


----------



## Bermuda

Here is my question: What is flax? What is Tencel? I know they are materials but I had never heard of them until I saw some Ralph Lauren blazers made out of them....Thanks


----------



## Reds & Tops

Flax is un-refined linen.


----------



## Carlton Banks

*2 quick questions*

hello,

what is the difference between tropical wool and gabardine trousers, specifically brooks brothers?

is it ok to wear horsebit loafers with gold bits with a silver belt buckle? i have 2 pairs of cole haan ascot ii horsebit loafers, i was just wondering if anyone else has them and what they think. you definitely get what you pay for ($100) in terms of quality, but i would just feel disgusted buying $500 gucci horsebit loafers.

thanks!


----------



## Reds & Tops

Carlton Banks said:


> hello,
> 
> what is the difference between tropical wool and gabardine trousers, specifically brooks brothers?
> 
> is it ok to wear horsebit loafers with gold bits with a silver belt buckle? i have 2 pairs of cole haan ascot ii horsebit loafers, i was just wondering if anyone else has them and what they think. you definitely get what you pay for ($100) in terms of quality, but i would just feel disgusted buying $500 gucci horsebit loafers.
> 
> thanks!


Gabardine is a cloth woven of highly twisted wool threads. It's hard wearing and somewhat water resistant. A great cloth for 3 season clothing, and is used by many clothiers as basic stock for pants.

Tropical wool is a lighter wool cloth that is more fine in nature, and is considered to be "dressier" by some. Usually more expensive than gabs, the the weave is finer and therefore rarer.

I used to be of the mindset that you had to match all your metals (watch, belt, ring) but have changed my position on the matter. It's too complicated. I say go for it.


----------



## chiamdream

Gents - I wonder if anyone can tell anything about the provenance of a BB blazer from the following:



















The buttons don't look familiar to me, and I'm not familiar enough with Brooks' more recent stuff to know if that label signifies anything. It's supposed to be 90% worsted wool, 10% cashmere. Any thoughts?


----------



## WilliamMMLeftfoot

What is regimental silk and why is it called that?


----------



## Reds & Tops

^ so far as I am aware, regimental silk is not a moniker defining a type of silk, rather to a style of woven silk fabric. Regimental ties originated in England, and are styled based on the colors of individual military regiments.


----------



## WilliamMMLeftfoot

So if something is called a regimental silk tie, that means it is most likely part of a regiment, or not? I'm looking at the striped ties section on the Press website.


----------



## Reds & Tops

If it's Press there is a good chance the design comes from a military regiment. 

"Regimental", used as a descriptor for ties, can also just mean the tie is diagonally striped. Some people call them regimental stripes. Whereas one once had to be a member of the regiment to wear its stripe, it's has come to be a descriptor of the design/style of the tie.


----------



## Ron_A

chiamdream said:


> Gents - I wonder if anyone can tell anything about the provenance of a BB blazer from the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The buttons don't look familiar to me, and I'm not familiar enough with Brooks' more recent stuff to know if that label signifies anything. It's supposed to be 90% worsted wool, 10% cashmere. Any thoughts?


I have the BB blazer with that label and those buttons, and it is 90% wool 10% cashmere. The label states that it is Made in Italy. It is a 3/2 sack, but is cut fairly slim and has more padding in the shoulders than I normally would care for. That said, the fabric has a very nice hand, and it has quality details (hook vent, patch pockets, etc.). I bought it on ebay a whiile back, but I am 99.9% sure that it's authentic (although it doesn't resemble anything that BB currently carries). I would be interested to know where you saw this one, and any other information that you were able to obtain.


----------



## Mossback

*Tennis Sweaters*

Where can an old-fashioned one (not a Polo) be acquired?


----------



## Epaminondas

chiamdream said:


> Gents - I wonder if anyone can tell anything about the provenance of a BB blazer from the following:


I think the above label indicates that it was made for the BB outlets. I have a jacket (differert color an fabric thsan what you've pictured) with the same label that I bought off ebay about 5-6 years ago and it's different from Brooks's standard items (e.g., no vent) and the fabric is inferior.

It's not a standard, regular store Brooks label as far as I know.


----------



## Pentheos

Epaminondas said:


> I think the above label indicates that it was made for the BB outlets. I have a jacket (differert color an fabric thsan what you've pictured) with the same label that I bought off ebay about 5-6 years ago and it's different from Brooks's standard items (e.g., no vent) and the fabric is inferior.
> 
> It's not a standard, regular store Brooks label as far as I know.


I have number of suits with that label, all from a regular BB store in Washington, D.C.---I'm sure of this, that's where I bought them.

I can't imagine BB selling outlet goods in a regular store, and especially not one in DC.


----------



## Mossback

*Flax*

Flax is a grass-like plant used to make linen. Even after drying, The inner shaft is soft, pliant and strong. The outer covering of the stem crumbles easily, leaving the raw material for linen.


----------



## Bermuda

Question: How can I tell if a tailor will be able to take my pants OUT an inch? Where do I see if there is material for him to take it out and how difficult is this process? These are Brooks Brothers trousers....


----------



## Reds & Tops

Take a look at the seat seam from inside the pants under the waistband. If there are two flaps of fabric that look like wings on either side of the seam, you have material to let out. If there is at least 3/4 of an inch on either side, you should be able to have them let out an inch.


----------



## Bermuda

yes I do see the flaps....Thank you for your assistance


----------



## WindsorNot

*Formal Bow Pumps*

Does anybody know of a vendor that carries formal bow pumps in calfskin (preferably) or patent leather (reluctantly) that are value priced? I have not been able to find anything. I'd be thrilled to find a pair under $200.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...lor=BLACK&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=


----------



## 32rollandrock

Epaminondas said:


> I think the above label indicates that it was made for the BB outlets. I have a jacket (differert color an fabric thsan what you've pictured) with the same label that I bought off ebay about 5-6 years ago and it's different from Brooks's standard items (e.g., no vent) and the fabric is inferior.
> 
> It's not a standard, regular store Brooks label as far as I know.


I bought a blazer from a forum member with this label and buttons. No complaints, really--it's 90/10 wool-cashmere and made, if memory serves (too lazy to go to the closet) in Israel. Weirdest thing is, it's supposed to be a 3/2, but no sign there was ever a top button. Go figure.


----------



## Bryan Roach

*How to wear formal gloves....?*

Although Emily Post advises that if a man can afford, his evening gloves should be white, the Indispensable Guide to Classic Men's Clothing and the Amy Vanderbilt Complete Book of Etiquette advise that gloves should be gray and of leather or suede. So I followed the latter suggestion, also seeing that gray would be more versatile, as befitting morning dress. However, understanding that I should wear them, I am not sure how to wear them. All I find are rules for ladies, and I was wondering whether anyone on here knows the rules governing gentlemen's usage of formal gloves, which I understand are quite different from the restrictions applying to ladies' gloves. From photographs and the like, it appears that men only wear them outdoors, and take them off as soon as entering a building, as in most pictures I see of men wearing gloves, they are carrying them. Is that true? Thank you.


----------



## Jovan

Gloves are something I think should remain in the past, given that no one's really all "ick" about the touching of skin on skin anymore. At least most people anyways.


----------



## P Hudson

I'm with Jovan on this one. I would maintain that gloves and snowballs go hand in hand, but that's all.


----------



## Bryan Roach

I was going for the style... you know, homburg hat, inverness, gray gloves...


----------



## Jovan

I suppose if you took both the hat and gloves off before going in...


----------



## chiamdream

Ron_A said:


> I have the BB blazer with that label and those buttons, and it is 90% wool 10% cashmere. The label states that it is Made in Italy. It is a 3/2 sack, but is cut fairly slim and has more padding in the shoulders than I normally would care for. That said, the fabric has a very nice hand, and it has quality details (hook vent, patch pockets, etc.). I bought it on ebay a whiile back, but I am 99.9% sure that it's authentic (although it doesn't resemble anything that BB currently carries). I would be interested to know where you saw this one, and any other information that you were able to obtain.


Thanks for your input. I came across this on eBay a little while ago, but the auction passed me by, so unfortunately I can't shed any further light on the matter.

I'd still be interested in learning the provenance of the buttons...there seem to be more varieties of Brooks blazer buttons every time I open a new thread here.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

chiamdream said:


> Thanks for your input. I came across this on eBay a little while ago, but the auction passed me by, so unfortunately I can't shed any further light on the matter.
> 
> I'd still be interested in learning the provenance of the buttons...there seem to be more varieties of Brooks blazer buttons every time I open a new thread here.


I purchased a Brooksease sack from the Exchange with those buttons. I can't imagine that it is very old...


----------



## wildcat121

*Help me buy a sweater*

Every time I've ever bought a sweater, it gets stretched out immediately. What should I be looking for? What fibers? I'm talking specifically about something lightweight -- like a v-neck you would wear under a suit coat. I don't have the problem with heavy wool or cable knits.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

wildcat121 said:


> Every time I've ever bought a sweater, it gets stretched out immediately. What should I be looking for? What fibers? I'm talking specifically about something lightweight -- like a v-neck you would wear under a suit coat. I don't have the problem with heavy wool or cable knits.


Where do they stretch out and what types of fibers do you typically buy?

I rarely have problems with my merino wool sweaters.


----------



## JDC

Are you sure you're buying the right size sweaters? It can be misleading. Some manufacturers allow an extra 2" for shirts and t-shirts worn underneath their sweaters, but some manufacturers don't. So if you've got a 42" chest for example, you may need either a Medium or Large, depending on whether the sizes include this extra allowance.


----------



## Bermuda

Question: Will my suede dirty bucks and cordovan penny loafers get ruined over the New York winter? What is an affordable winter dress shoe to wear with trousers, jacket, and tie?


----------



## mcarthur

Bermuda said:


> Question: Will my suede dirty bucks and cordovan penny loafers get ruined over the New York winter? What is an affordable winter dress shoe to wear with trousers, jacket, and tie?


tingley overshoes


----------



## AdamsSutherland

I've been seriously considering purchasing my first pair of shell LWB's for the past few months and am currently capable of doing so.

I really like the RL Darlton model, because of the color, but I can't afford an $800 shoe.

Does anyone have any thoughts on cigar vs. #8 for more casual wear (khakis, not a suit)?


----------



## mcarthur

AdamsSutherland said:


> I've been seriously considering purchasing my first pair of shell LWB's for the past few months and am currently capable of doing so.
> 
> I really like the RL Darlton model, because of the color, but I can't afford an $800 shoe.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on cigar vs. #8 for more casual wear (khakis, not a suit)?


I would recommend cigar


----------



## randomdude

Elementary question: I am bidding for some pants on Ebay that are cuffed at a longer inseam than I normally wear. Can a tailor "de-cuff" the pants, shorten them, and then re-cuff them at the length I usually wear?


----------



## Cardinals5

randomdude said:


> Elementary question: I am bidding for some pants on Ebay that are cuffed at a longer inseam than I normally wear. Can a tailor "de-cuff" the pants, shorten them, and then re-cuff them at the length I usually wear?


Should work easily since you're making the inseam shorter. If you were lengthening the inseam there might be an issue of the old hemline being a lighther color because of wear.


----------



## JDC

AdamsSutherland said:


> I've been seriously considering purchasing my first pair of shell LWB's for the past few months and am currently capable of doing so.
> 
> I really like the RL Darlton model, because of the color, but I can't afford an $800 shoe.
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts on cigar vs. #8 for more casual wear (khakis, not a suit)?


Because it's your first pair, I have to disagree with Mac and recommend the #8's over cigar. They're more versatile, and a much better choice if you don't want to become known as "the guy with the shoes".


----------



## dizzyfan

I thrifted a wonderful double breasted Polo jacket. The only thing is that it is un-vented. It makes a bit difficult to sit down in the thing! What is the accepted practice for such a jacket? Unbutton when sitting down? Suck it in when sitting down? Buy a bigger / different jacket? Thanks!


----------



## Cardinals5

Lean forward, rest elbow, and uplife eye brow :icon_smile_big:. In all seriousness, I think you just end up sitting on the back of the jacket, which, if nothing else, keeps the collar from riding up (wasn't that the advice in Broadcast News?)


----------



## Jovan

It is perfectly acceptable to unfasten a double breasted when sitting.


----------



## Benson

*Make?*

I saw a double-breasted camelhair overcoat at the thrift store the other day and I was unfamiliar with the make. That is, there were no labels, save an SSSSSSSSSSS tag. Anyone know the brand?

Best,
Benson


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I'm ashamed to have to ask, but what exactly is the purpose of a game pocket?


----------



## C. Sharp

I would say to put dead birds. You are talking about the ruberized thing that is on the inside of a field coat? I think the back compartment on a Barbour is a poachers pocket, not sure if that is a PC term. You can hide almost anything back there. 


Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I'm ashamed to have to ask, but what exactly is the purpose of a game pocket?


----------



## Cardinals5

Yep, game pocket or poacher's pocket, both meaning the same thing (in and out of hunting season or on public/private land) are for carrying any small dead animal that will fit in there, usually birds/water fowl.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

It doesn't appear that AE or Alden has clunky brown longwings in their lineups.

Are new available thru a lesser known maker??

Or do I have to wait for them to come "back??"

Whenever I try on previously owned shoes they feel weird and I prefer new.


----------



## Patrick06790

^ AE's MacNeil is a pretty substantial critter


----------



## my19

I inherited a pair of black tassel loafers from my dad. He bought them when I graduated college in 1974, and the label is from the College Town Shop in Lexington, VA. But the numbers and letters on the inside of the shoes make we wonder whether they are Aldens.

It lists the size: 10, followed by "39849" and then either an O, a zero, or a D. There's a bit of space after that, and then a "3." Next row is B/D, and then "24877."

The width designation got me to wondering -- I don't know if other makers use that B/D or C/E thing.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Mike


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Patrick06790 said:


> ^ AE's MacNeil is a pretty substantial critter


Nice!!

Maybe they will offer it in a pebley brown!!

Thanks!!


----------



## Green3

WouldaShoulda said:


> It doesn't appear that AE or Alden has clunky brown longwings in their lineups.
> 
> Are new available thru a lesser known maker??
> 
> Or do I have to wait for them to come "back??"
> 
> Whenever I try on previously owned shoes they feel weird and I prefer new.


Teh Shoemart has Cigar Shell Alden LWs, but only in D width.


----------



## Sir Cingle

*Patch Pockets Question*

Okay, I have a quick question--one that ably demonstrates both my lack of familiarity with jackets and my potential idiocy. I recently received a J. Press jacket in the mail, which was ordered on-line from the sale section. I like the coat very much (though its shoulders are a bit more padded than I would have expected), except for one thing: its three patch pockets are all sewn up at the top. And this led me to wonder: are these actually "fake" patch pockets, or is one merely supposed to remove the stitching from the top of the pockets?

I've bought lots of jackets and suits before, but I've never seen one with sewn up patch pockets.


----------



## Wrenkin

Sir Cingle said:


> Okay, I have a quick question--one that ably demonstrates both my lack of familiarity with jackets and my potential idiocy. I recently received a J. Press jacket in the mail, which was ordered on-line from the sale section. I like the coat very much (though its shoulders are a bit more padded than I would have expected), except for one thing: its three patch pockets are all sewn up at the top. And this led me to wonder: are these actually "fake" patch pockets, or is one merely supposed to remove the stitching from the top of the pockets?
> 
> I've bought lots of jackets and suits before, but I've never seen one with sewn up patch pockets.


Almost certainly remove it. Which jacket is this BTW? I don't see one with patch pockets currently.


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Thanks for the reply. And, of course, you are right: I should have written flap pockets, not patch pockets. Here's the coat I got (which is more golden in color than the picture suggests, but is, I think, quite nice):

https://jpressonline.com/sale_sportcoats_detail.php?ix=30


----------



## Max875

WouldaShoulda,

An Allen Edmonds medium brown pebble grain calfskin longwing blucher is available at Yoox.xom (sizes are limited):

https://www.yoox.com/item/YOOX/ALLEN+EDMONDS/dept/shoesmen/tskay/3FD17CD7/rr/1/cod10/44165370PU/sts/sr_shoesmen80

The shoe is called the Slater. I believe it's a rebranded MacNeil for the European market. It's similar to Leather Soul's Alden American Longwing. However, both shoes are $400+. Perhaps the AE shoes can be purchased here in the U.S. as seconds? I purchased an AE European beef-roll loafer at a significant discount by calling the "800" number here is the U.S. I also believe AE will custom make shoes with different leathers for a $100 premium. Calfskin MacNeils list for $325, so $325+100 works out to the price on Yoox.

Alden of Carmel also offers an Alden dark brown smooth calfskin longwing (AF104) for $450.

Best,

Max875


----------



## HistoryDoc

What do you use when you just need a quick polish for your shoes before you head out the door?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I keep a misting bottle filled with fresh water handy for giving them a quick spritz, followed by a vigorous brushing, followed by a quick work-over with a buffing cloth. It always seems to restore the shine to a point that I'm good for getting through the day! It works for the shell cords, as recommended by Uncle Mac, and for calfskin shoes as well. Just don't overdo it with the water spray!


----------



## babycatcher

Any suggestions for bow tie sources? 

I have picked up some from BB, Press, and Beau Ties Ltd., but is there a "next level" of something a bit better?


----------



## WindsorNot

*Laundry Q. Help!*

To all:

I've recently tried to handwash and line dry a wool waistcoat. It looked fine during and after the wash, but once dry I noticed a rainbow of colors (yellow and orange bled from brown/red wool) on the white lining inside. It's not noticeable from the outside, but the stain rubbed off on a white ocbd the other day. Has anybody else come across this problem or have a fix? I might try and take it to the cleaners for professional help. Oh the horrors of being a bachelor!

Best,
Wind


----------



## C. Sharp

https://www.bowties.com/

Also the catalog looks good just got it. Have been wearing their ties for years they supply to small shops.



babycatcher said:


> Any suggestions for bow tie sources?
> 
> I have picked up some from BB, Press, and Beau Ties Ltd., but is there a "next level" of something a bit better?


----------



## chiamdream

I know the answer's here somewhere, but I haven't been able to figure it out: what does _Makers _connote on a Brooks Bros. label? After much delay, I received blazer in the mail, which, imo, seems nicer than my other non-_Makers_ BB sack (better buttons, more substantial fabric, etc).


----------



## WindsorNot

chiamdream said:


> I know the answer's here somewhere, but I haven't been able to figure it out: what does _Makers _connote on a Brooks Bros. label? After much delay, I received blazer in the mail, which, imo, seems nicer than my other non-_Makers_ BB sack (better buttons, more substantial fabric, etc).


I believe it is the standard distinction between an item at an outlet (346 brand) versus one ordered from the website or at a regular store (Makers, 1818, or other). I have mostly noticed this on ties.


----------



## C. Sharp

Makers means they make it vs contract it out. For example they do or did have a shirt factory in NJ.



chiamdream said:


> I know the answer's here somewhere, but I haven't been able to figure it out: what does _Makers _connote on a Brooks Bros. label? After much delay, I received blazer in the mail, which, imo, seems nicer than my other non-_Makers_ BB sack (better buttons, more substantial fabric, etc).


----------



## mcarthur

babycatcher said:


> Any suggestions for bow tie sources?
> 
> I have picked up some from BB, Press, and Beau Ties Ltd., but is there a "next level" of something a bit better?


hermes


----------



## chiamdream

C. Sharp said:


> Makers means they make it vs contract it out. For example they do or did have a shirt factory in NJ.


Good to know. Thanks!


----------



## emc894

*Macys Sale*

Some time last year Macy's had a 25% off sale and I was able to pick up all my lacoste/polo shirts for the year.

I wear these every weekend so I like to wait around for a good deal and buy in bulk. Anyone know when this deal is or know of a similar one?


----------



## babycatcher

Thanks C. Sharp and Uncle! Ties from Hanauer and Hermes on the way.


----------



## C. Sharp

Your Welcome. What tie or ties did you choose?



babycatcher said:


> Thanks C. Sharp and Uncle! Ties from Hanauer and Hermes on the way.


----------



## HistoryDoc

I just saw a BB sweater on Ebay listed as "Scottish Lambswool, made in Hong Kong." Has anyone ever seen/heard of this?


----------



## C. Sharp

I went and looked. What I saw was new stuff I was not familar with. I can tell you in the past it was common to see things like Brooks Brothers Tennis sweaters marked made in the crown colony of Hong Kong or just mde in Hong Kong.


HistoryDoc said:


> I just saw a BB sweater on Ebay listed as "Scottish Lambswool, made in Hong Kong." Has anyone ever seen/heard of this?


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

*Shell Watchband*

I ran a search and this maker didn't come up. Are any of you gentlemen familiar with Fluco watchbands, like this one?


----------



## C. Sharp

A quick google search says they are a German company. I figure you are paying for the leather not the band maker.



Pleasant McIvor said:


> I ran a search and this maker didn't come up. Are any of you gentlemen familiar with Fluco watchbands, like this one?


----------



## DCLawyer68

babycatcher said:


> Any suggestions for bow tie sources?
> 
> I have picked up some from BB, Press, and Beau Ties Ltd., but is there a "next level" of something a bit better?


Don't forget this site - some really interesting materials and patterns here, with unbeatable prices. The quality is undiminished, though.

https://thecordialchurchman.bigcartel.com/


----------



## C. Sharp

If any of you go for the red vintage seersucker let me know what you think of it.



DCLawyer68 said:


> Don't forget this site - some really interesting materials and patterns here, with unbeatable prices. The quality is undiminished, though.
> 
> https://thecordialchurchman.bigcartel.com/


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Max875 said:


> WouldaShoulda,
> 
> An Allen Edmonds medium brown pebble grain calfskin longwing blucher is available at Yoox.xom (sizes are limited):


Thanks for the update!!

A little pricey as you point out.

Maybe I can get some Kenmoor Florsheims -$200 after the holiday....


----------



## TradMichael

HistoryDoc said:


> What do you use when you just need a quick polish for your shoes before you head out the door?


I got me one of these:

A few whirls on the way out and you're shinin'.


----------



## Leighton

Quick Q

Whats the smallest, symmetrical tie knot?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

The Shelby/Pratt I'd imagine.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Alden size/last question.

I'm trying to get a good idea of what size I need in the Barrie last.

(Tassel) Aberdeen- 12D
(LHS) Van- 12C
(Brooks unlined) Copley- 11.5D
Barrie??


----------



## frat pack

1. Can anyone speak to the difference between Bills Khakis M3 Vintage Twill Pants and the Original Twill Pants?

2. Are these (M3) wider than the J. Crew Classic Fit chino? I'm looking for pants a tad wider, but I think the M2 pants will be too wide. Thanks


----------



## Max875

AdamsSutherland said:


> Alden size/last question.
> 
> I'm trying to get a good idea of what size I need in the Barrie last.
> 
> (Tassel) Aberdeen- 12D
> (LHS) Van- 12C
> (Brooks unlined) Copley- 11.5D
> Barrie??


Hello,

I have included my sizing below for the same lasts in shell cordovan:

Aberdeen (Tassel/Full-strap) - 9C
Aberdeen (Lace-up Straight Tip) - 8.5E
Brooks Unlined Penny Loafer - 8.5D
Van (LHS) - 8.5D
Barrie - 8.5D/8E

Best of luck,

Max875


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Max, thanks for the sizing guide. I think I'll shoot for an 11.5D.


----------



## mcarthur

AdamsSutherland said:


> Max, thanks for the sizing guide. I think I'll shoot for an 11.5D.


go see cathy and try on the shoes with a barrie last because everyone feet are different


----------



## Valkyrie

So why is the NATO watch strap called the NATO watch strap?

And, by the way, what does LHS (the loafers) stand for?


----------



## Cardinals5

Valkyrie said:


> So why is the NATO watch strap called the NATO watch strap?
> 
> And, by the way, what does LHS (the loafers) stand for?


The NATO watch strap got its name because NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization) had a stock number (inventory number) for a British watch strap issued by the Ministry of Defense. The strap became quite popular with military services around the world as well as other types of tactical units, i.e. SWAT teams, regular police, etc.

LHS: Leisure Hand Sewn


----------



## AdamsSutherland

NATO- I'd add that it seems NATO straps are better suited for heavier, bigger watches.


----------



## Sir Cingle

*AAAC 15% Discount*

After taking in much discussion of the AAAC 15% discount at Brooks Brothers, I decided to search for the details of this deal on the forum. And I came up empty. Can anyone tell me how one goes about getting this discount? Or, failing that, can someone point me in the direction of the appropriate information on it? Thanks!


----------



## Cardinals5

Sir Cingle said:


> After taking in much discussion of the AAAC 15% discount at Brooks Brothers, I decided to search for the details of this deal on the forum. And I came up empty. Can anyone tell me how one goes about getting this discount? Or, failing that, can someone point me in the direction of the appropriate information on it? Thanks!


Sir Cingle, when you have 100 posts, which you already have, you go the AAAC Clubhouse, which should appear for you at the bottom of this page (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/index.php). Then click on Andy's sticky (the first post) and you'll see how to apply to BB for the 15% discount. You can use the discount immediately - you'll receive a print out from BB, and then they'll mail you the official corporate discount card in a couple of weeks.


----------



## 2UFU

HistoryDoc said:


> What do you use when you just need a quick polish for your shoes before you head out the door?


 Tarrago Self Shine Shoe Cream & Applicator
https://www.shoetreemarketplace.com/TARRAGO_Self_Shine_Shoe_Cream_Applicator_p/1009.htm


----------



## Sir Cingle

Thank you, Cardinals! And happy holidays!


----------



## Valkyrie

*Thanks!*

And: Thank you Cardinal5 for the prompt answers on NATO and LHS.


----------



## Coleman

Alright, gents, I need some help. I'm about to order my first Shaggy Dog from Press. I believe I've read here to size down with Shaggy Dogs, but I can't seem to find that info at this time. Is my memory correct? Should I be ordering an S even though I buy M in most things (I'm 40Rish in jackets)?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Coleman said:


> Alright, gents, I need some help. I'm about to order my first Shaggy Dog from Press. I believe I've read here to size down with Shaggy Dogs, bit I can't seem to find that info at this time. Is my memory correct? Should I be ordering an S even though I buy M in most things (I'm 40Rish in jackets)?


I did-That is, after I bought 2 XL's over the phone and several months later tried on a Large on a whim and felt my stomach knot up because I knew I needed to find a tailor. They're roomy.


----------



## Sir Cingle

Yes, you should go one size down on the Shaggy Dogs. The arms can be a bit tight, but the Shaggy Dogs are normally very roomy.


----------



## Coleman

Thanks, Adam and Sir Cingle.


----------



## AldenPyle

Anyone know what you call this kind of sweater RFK is wearing?


----------



## Tonyp

^ Looks like an Alpaca of some sort.


----------



## Jovan

Wookiee pelt?


----------



## eagle2250

I would call it very warm but, not for me. Perhaps times have changed...I prefer a much tighter knit!


----------



## zblaesi

I'm 20 years old and a college student. I've worn sneakers most of my life, but I want to start dressing nicer, and I figured I'd start with shoes.

I'm looking for a casual pair of shoes/boots to wear with jeans/khakis which are a step up from sneakers but casual enough for the college setting. I already bought a pair of Sperry Boat Shoes. I also bought a pair of Clarks Desert Boots, but they were unbearably uncomfortable so I'm returning them. (I think I might have a high instep or something.)

What shoes or boots would you recommend? I like the Desert Boot style, but like I said, the Clarks just didn't work for me.

I'd prefer to spend under $100 for each pair, but I can go as high as $150 if need be. 

Thanks.


----------



## Coleman

I'd suggest giving the Clark's a few wearings to break in. Mine were also very uncomfortable at first but are now very comfortable.

You could also pick up some pennies. I like my Bass Gilmans - https://bassshoes.harborghb.com/bass-weejuns-mens.


----------



## dwebber18

Penney loafers. Wear them with jeans or khakis and they will serve you wonderfully. It will work with a golf shirt or sport shirt, and you can wear them instead of boat shoes for a little dressier look with shots in the summer. Check ebay, and if you can spend $100-$150 might want to call the Allen Edmonds shoe bank to see what they have. Tell them you want a penney loafer and the color you want and your size and they will tell you what they have. Might be able to get them 50% of retail price, and you will get a great shoe. Here is the phone number for you, they are really nice and helpful 262-284-7158. I also agree give the Clarks a chance, I love mine but it take a few days of pain to get there.


----------



## zblaesi

I really don't see the Clarks improving. You know the room between the bottom of the shoe up to where the laces meet and the instep rests? It just does not seem like there is enough vertical room from the bottom of the shoe to the instep. It digs into my foot. For example:

----
myfoot
----

The top of the shoe, represented by the top set of dashes, digs into the instep of my foot. I don't think breaking them in will change that. Like I said, I might have a large instep; I've heard of other people complaining about Clarks who said that was the reason.

Thanks for the recommendations. Any other brands in mind? (I don't believe there are any local dealers who carry Allen Edmonds for me to try on, and I'd really prefer to try them on first.) Or any other boot recommendations?


----------



## Corcovado

re: Clarks: The desert boot has a much different fit than many other styles of Clarks. For one thing it's very flat inside. I wear a 10 D in most Clarks but in the Desert boot 9.5 was a better fit. Ultimately the desert boot didn't work for me and I was disappointed because I like the look.

If you're looking for a basic brown walking shoe, something that goes okay with jeans or khakis, try some of the other Clarks styles. Something like the Natureveldt may work for you.


----------



## chacend

Definitely Penny Loafers. I live in either these or boat shoes. My sneakers are seeing less and less use by the day.


----------



## LanceW

Stick with the AEs. Call their shoe bank and find a seconds penny loafer. Here is the list of .


----------



## zblaesi

LanceW said:


> Stick with the AEs. Call their shoe bank and find a seconds penny loafer. Here is the list of .


Unfortunately, all of the stores are about 2 hours away. I live all the way down south. That's a long way to drive to try on shoes.

Thanks for the help though guys.


----------



## mikejw

I thrifted this Eljo's windowpane camel hair jacket last week. What the heck do I wear with it? Would I want red in the tie or pocket square, or should I avoid red?










Mike


----------



## Jovan

IMO, red looks great with earth colour tweeds like that. Just don't match the tie and pocket square exactly. An ecru tattersall or blue solid OCBD would be a given.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Agreed. That's a nice jacket for sure. You might select ties/squares that use red only as a secondary color, otherwise you might look too matchy-matchy.

I might try a solid blue OCBD (although the spread collar is very much in vogue these days in the trad "what are you wearing today" thread) with a yellow pocket square.


----------



## Moose Maclennan

mikejw said:


> I thrifted this Eljo's windowpane camel hair jacket last week. What the heck do I wear with it? Would I want red in the tie or pocket square, or should I avoid red?...


Lots of olive and green tweeds, oddly, have quite a bit of red/rust tone in them close up. Red in ties goes very well with them - in fact, it's one of the few times I will wear a red tie at all.

Any tattersall shirt will look good with it, you might also want to see how you like it with a tieless yellow OCBD.


----------



## zblaesi

Any of you guys have any boot recommendations (except Clarks DB) to go with jeans or khakis for a casual but stylish look?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Alden's Indy Boots, perhaps. Red Wing offers several models that would work nicely. I find myself wearing RM Williams Craftsman boots, with casual attire, on a fairly frequent basis. What are your preferrences?


----------



## longwing

I am very fond of my Alden rubber sole chukkas. Mine are in grain leather which is no longer available but the other options are nice. In the same vein as the Clarks DB though.


----------



## Coleman

I've never owned any Red Wings, but I really like the look of the Iron Rangers (and they are on my someday-maybe list) - https://www.redwingshoes.com/productdetails.aspx?prodid=1980. They may be too casual for you.

A few folks around here have spoken highly of their Gentleman Travelers which are a little less casual - https://www.redwingshoes.com/productdetails.aspx?prodid=1900.

I'm happy with my Clarks DBs for now.


----------



## jalyon

Hi friends; long time lurker, first time poster.

Went thrifting yesterday and picked up a nice blue Polo RL wool Paisley tie. It says made in USA and I was wondering if this is still the case (their website seems to indicate not)? If not, when did they stop making them in the states?


----------



## Reds & Tops

jalyon said:


> Hi friends; long time lurker, first time poster.
> 
> Went thrifting yesterday and picked up a nice blue Polo RL wool Paisley tie. It says made in USA and I was wondering if this is still the case (their website seems to indicate not)? If not, when did they stop making them in the states?


They are generally made in Italy nowadays. I believe they stopped being made in the USA in the 90s, but someone here might know better.


----------



## zblaesi

I have another question.

I'm looking to get a decent belt to wear with jeans and khakis. I'd prefer to spend under $40. It'd also be nice if the brand is available through amazon, since I need to make an unrelated order soon. I could pick something at random, but I'm hoping some of you might have some advice at the lower price range. Any recommendations?

I've heard that the more casual the clothing, the wider the belt should be, so I'm not sure if the same belt would be suitable for both jeans and khakis (and/or chinos or something). Perhaps there is a cheap dress belt I can get as well.


----------



## Coleman

Not an option on Amazon, but for the price they can't be beat in my opinion. I'm referring to Leather Man's Surcingles. I wear them with everything (jeans, khakis, and my dress trousers) - . They're also made in the U.S.


----------



## D&S

*Baracuta care*

Just thrifted a Harington Baracuta-style jacket (brand is Pacific Trail... never heard of it) that is missing it's care tags. Are these jackets generally machine washable, or would dry-cleaning be recommended?


----------



## dandypauper

Coleman said:


> Not an option on Amazon, but for the price they can't be beat in my opinion. I'm referring to Leather Man's Surcingles. I wear them with everything (jeans, khakis, and my dress trousers) - . They're also made in the U.S.


Surcingle belts are among my earlier memories, as my father always wore them. He still does, but I've been able to look him in the eye for about 20 years now. My dad also wears a gold watch given to him by his grandfather, which I suppose I'll get someday (may he live to 120.) In the meantime, however, I'm not a gold guy--meaning the color. I like stainless steel. Do any surcingles come this way? Faux pas?


----------



## Cardinals5

D&S said:


> Just thrifted a Harington Baracuta-style jacket (brand is Pacific Trail... never heard of it) that is missing it's care tags. Are these jackets generally machine washable, or would dry-cleaning be recommended?


The vast majority of the Baracuta G9-style imitators used cotton/poly blends, which makes them safe to machine wash. If you want to be extra safe, just let it drip dry (not on a hanger). At various times I've had Van Heusen, London Fog, and one or two other G9 imitators and have washed them all and haven't had a problem.


----------



## Coleman

I've never seen any, dandy, but maybe someone else will weigh in. I simply gave up on matching metals.


----------



## eightysixed

dandypauper said:


> ...In the meantime, however, I'm not a gold guy--meaning the color. I like stainless steel. Do any surcingles come this way? Faux pas?


It's an easy job for a shoe repair place to change the buckle if you supply one in the same size.


----------



## D&S

Cardinals5 said:


> The vast majority of the Baracuta G9-style imitators used cotton/poly blends, which makes them safe to machine wash. If you want to be extra safe, just let it drip dry (not on a hanger). At various times I've had Van Heusen, London Fog, and one or two other G9 imitators and have washed them all and haven't had a problem.


Thank you.


----------



## Steve Smith

*Is this a sack?*

I suppose it comes down to 'Is this a dart?' There is a seam on this uber tradly vintage BB 3 roll 2 which goes from the armpit down to the patch pocket. That is pointed out with the pen on the left. The pen on the right is on the side seam.

So, is this a sack?


----------



## Coleman

If it's coming from the armpit of the jacket, that is just the side seam of the jacket. Darts will be farther in (towards the middle of the jacket), will start at the top of the pocket going up, and normally just stop in the middle of nowhere, as it were, after about a foot. They are usually about 1" from the inner most part of the pocket flap.

I think you've got yourself a sack jacket :icon_smile_wink:.


----------



## Cardinals5

Steve Smith said:


> I suppose it comes down to 'Is this a dart?' There is a seam on this uber tradly vintage BB 3 roll 2 which goes from the armpit down to the patch pocket. That is pointed out with the pen on the left. The pen on the right is on the side seam.
> 
> So, is this a sack?


To make an official determination, we'll need a pic of where that seam on the left ends - it sure looks like a dart (a long one?) since most vintage BB sacks don't have any seams on the front of the coat except the side seam, which you're picturing on the right. There are, and it can be quite confusing, tons of tradly 3-button jackets that look like they should be 3/2 sacks, but aren't. Whenever I'm in doubt, the most obvious indicator is not the absence of a dart - some 3-button jackets are also sacks - but the quality of the sewing on the internal side of the top buttonhole. You can determine the quality of the sewing by comparing the internal side of the top button hole with the internal side of the second button hole. If both buttons were sewn identically then you have a 3-button jacket. If the internal side of the top button is more finely finished, then it's a 3/2.


----------



## Steve Smith

Here is the pic. The seam starts at the armhole and ends somewhere underneath the patch pocket. It is not the side seam. I am interested in the consensus answer to whether this seam disqualifies the jacket as a sack. I am confused about it. I have seen jackets posted on the thrift exchange as "sacks" which clearly have this seam.

As far as the buttonhole finishing, thanks for that tip. It makes a lot of sense. This jacket is definitely a 3 roll 2. The finish side of the top buttonhole is opposite of the other two buttonholes.


----------



## Coleman

You're both right, it's not the side seam. The side seam is farther back (I couldn't see it at first in your first pic, despite the other pen pointing to it). I think this is technically a kind of dart (most of my sacks have it, including Southwicks, BB vintage 346, etc.), but it is not the forward darting that disqualifies it from being a sack (based on my understanding).

Correction: All of my sacks have it, including those I've bought from much more knowledgeable members of the forum than myself, if it is indeed what I'm thinking of.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

D&S-

A bit of extra info on Pacific Trail. I believe that Pacific Trail is owned by London Fog. I recall seeing their jackets for sale at a London Fog outlet shop a few years back.


----------



## Coleman

See the responses here - https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=52950&highlight=dart.

I believe what we are seeing is the "front cut" of the side panel.

So it seems jackets, sacks or otherwise, can have side panels (I assume the area between the front cut and side seam) or not (they would have just a side seam, probably farther forward than on a jacket with a side panel). Mine all have side panels.


----------



## Jazzer

Should black plain cap-toe balmorals (e.g. Park Avenues) be worn with anything besides a suit? What about grey flannels, blazer and tie?

In my case, the alternative is a pair of brown loafers, but I'd rather wear my black shoes if they are not too formal for odd wool trousers and blazer.


----------



## Steve Smith

Nice find on that, Coleman. Thank you.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Jazzer:
I've worn my Merlot Park Avenues with dress casual attire but, think wearing black Park Avenues with dress casual attire may be pushing the envelope just a bit too far. However, my black Park Aves. are shined to (almost) a mirror finish. Perhaps with less shine and more luster in the finish, they might work. Good grief, I've confused even myself!


----------



## Jazzer

eagle2250 said:


> . . . wearing black Park Avenues with dress casual attire may be pushing the envelope just a bit too far . . .


Thanks, Eagle. Loafers it is.


----------



## dwebber18

Watching some Imperials on ebay but I have a sizing question. I typically wear a 13D and do so in my PAs. They fit well, or at least I think they do. I don't have any fit issues with them and typically wear 13D in most shoes. The Imperials I'm watching are 13C, anyone think these would be comfortable for me or would they be too narrow? Unfortunately there aren't any places around here with Imperials, and these look a little vintage too. Also, do these look too beat up to be worth my money?













































Thanks for your help


----------



## AdamsSutherland

I think you can find a pair of Imperials in much better shape if you wait it out.


----------



## dwebber18

but f a c will work they are only $7


----------



## Cardinals5

Those could look pretty decent once cleaned up - I've never seen what appears to be alpine grain burgundy v-cleat Imperials - but in my experience Florsheim imperials run true to size and there's nothing more uncomfortable than shoes too tight in the width. 

That said, they've probably been stretched by the previous owner through wear and you could always have them stretched just a little (I've done this myself). $7.00 + shipping is probably just cheap enough to experiment - I wouldn't go much higher.


----------



## Steve Smith

Those Florsheims would clean up nicely. The only areas which are edgy is the trim around the ankle and the inside, neither of which will be seen by anyone but the wearer. The soles, which are not pictured here, would be the deciding factor for me. Let us know if you buy them. And if so, post pics after you clean them up.


----------



## Steve Smith

*Can you identify these shoes?*

Who made these? Inside, not handwritten, I can make out "St Regis" on the lining. This is probably the model. The trees didn't come with the shoes so there is no hint there.


----------



## dwebber18

Well I won the Florsheims off ebay for $6.99 so we will see what happens. They are in good enough condition for me with a clean up and polish, I just hope they fit ok. So if anyone is a 13C these might be coming your way if they don't fit me.


----------



## Steve Smith

^^^Stole them. Shoe trees + polish and they will look great.


----------



## WindsorNot

Does anybody else consistently have problems accessing theshoemart.com?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

WindsorNot said:


> Does anybody else consistently have problems accessing theshoemart.com?


Yes, I have. It's rather annoying.


----------



## dwebber18

I too can never get past the home page on shoemart.com


----------



## Steve Smith

*Knit Ties*

Would one of you experts give the rest of us a quick class on knit ties? What makes a particular knit tie a good one, etc.


----------



## C. Sharp

Here is my quick take. The square end type were very popular then went underground as in not seen on a large scale but are making a come back. You will find wools and mohairs, think old Rooster ties . I am not found of the cotton ties. Silk knits are great, A black silk knit goes with almost every shirt. These knit ties use to come from England but now most come out of Italy. Although there is some differences in quality or appearance there seems to only be a few Italian producers. I know I like my old Robert Talbot knit. I recently picked up a J. Press Knit that has an M mark on the underside of the tag. This matches two others private label shop ties I have that were cut like normal ties some time early to mid 1990's. if you want to buy one retail from a person you can trust give Paul Winston a call 1-212-687-0850


----------



## Coleman

Steve

I particularly like the double knits (as I've heard them referred to by an older gent with whom I work). They are thicker, and one can't see through the spaces in the knit as readily like the thinner ones J. Crew, LE, and J. Press sell (at least my two vintage J. Press knits are thin; I don't know about the current stock). My double knits were all purchased at Dillards (Daniel Cremieux) before I was even a member of this forum or even knew what a sack was. I don't think there is a quality difference really between the thinner and double knits, the doubles are just a bit heavier and seem more durable. 

I also prefer the silk variants like C. Sharp (but I do have one wool knit that I wear exclusively with tweed---in fact I wore it yesterday and posted a pic in WAYW). I agree also that it seems there are very few distributors of these, and all of mine were made in Italy. 

I'd guess as long as it's 100% silk or wool and made in Italy (or if you can find one made in the U.S. or the U.K.), it's probably quite good in quality. LE's silk knits are supposed to be one of their best products, for example.


----------



## mjo_1

What's the consensus on Press shirt sizing? I plan on taking advantage of the sale and placing an order tomorrow. I wear a 15.5 x 34 in Brooks, so should I order the same or are the Press shirts known either to shrink or run small? Thanks.

Best,

Michael


----------



## AdamsSutherland

mjo_1 said:


> What's the consensus on Press shirt sizing? I plan on taking advantage of the sale and placing an order tomorrow. I wear a 15.5 x 34 in Brooks, so should I order the same or are the Press shirts known either to shrink or run small? Thanks.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Michael


Wash on cold and hang dry. I have 5 Press shirts (4 OCBDs, 1 Pinpoint BD) and they all have stayed true to size following this method. Well, almost... The pinpoint shrunk maybe a half inch in the sleeves after my stepmother tossed it in the dryer.

They do run a little slimmer than the BB Traditional Fit, but they not as slim as the BB Slim Fit. They are also shorter, I believe.


----------



## WindsorNot

Coleman/Jovan/Others:

I did a quick search with little success. Where did you create the cartoon avatar of yourselves?


----------



## Coleman




----------



## Steve Smith

Who makes the Italian manufactured Brooks Brothers sport coats?


----------



## WindsorNot

Thanks!


----------



## dwebber18

dwebber18 said:


> Watching some Imperials on ebay but I have a sizing question. I typically wear a 13D and do so in my PAs. They fit well, or at least I think they do. I don't have any fit issues with them and typically wear 13D in most shoes. The Imperials I'm watching are 13C, anyone think these would be comfortable for me or would they be too narrow? Unfortunately there aren't any places around here with Imperials, and these look a little vintage too. Also, do these look too beat up to be worth my money?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help


Sorry to repost the pics but I wanted to let everyone know that I got these shoes today. They have a fantastic dark brown patina especially to the toes and top. They were dusty and a bit smooched when I got them so I stuffed some shoe trees in and put a nice conditioner on them tonight and it brought back a nice color and a supple leather. I believe tomorrow I'll go out and get some trees for these shoes specifically and some appropriate shoe polish. Anyone know what a good color would be and a recommended polish? I use AE Chili polish on my PAs but I think that would be off for these. They may also need new heels, but I think I'll wear them a little while first. But all in all good find if someone can help me with a polish choice. Thanks


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Glad they turned out well. The color of polish depends on whether you want to continue developing the brown patina. If so, a brown creme like Meltonian and then Lincoln brown wax polish (I like Lincoln over Kiwi, but Lincoln can be harder to find - try a shoe repair place).

As for replacing the heels - I love the original v-cleats and two rows of nails. If they aren't too worn down you can often save yourself the cost of new heels, and keep the v-cleats, by appling the plastic heel savers/taps/guards, which can usually also be purchased at any shoe repair place (I get mine from eBay).


----------



## M. Morgan

*Good tailor in DC?*

I live in DC. My father handed me down some great old Southwick suits a few years ago. I had two tailored a year or so ago, and now that it's getting time for me to find a summer (law) job, I'm planning on having two or three of the 3B sacks tailored. I am not exactly sure how old they are (though it's possible that some of them were given to my dad by my mother's father, so maybe late '80s but perhaps a bit later than that).

Two questions:

(1) For those familiar with the quality of Southwick suits: are they durable enough for it to be worth my while and my money to have them tailored? They have been cared for wonderfully and are gorgeous suits. I doubt that they've been heavily worn. Being a trad, of course I want to wear my father's suits, but is the quality so high as to make it worth it?

(2) If I should go ahead and get 'em tailored, where should I go? I'm a student, so I'd love to avoid breaking the bank. Having the work done properly, however, is my top priority.

Help? Thanks!


----------



## Cardinals5

Southwick suits are definitely worth spending the money to have tailored, especially the highly sought after 3/2 sacks. I have one and love it. I was thrifting tonight and came across an orphan Southwick jacket and almost cried when I couldn't find the matching pants.

As for Washington tailors, the only one I know by reputation is Field, but I presume the shop is among the most expensive in D.C. Others who live near Washington will be able to give you better advice about a good, but inexpensive tailor.


----------



## M. Morgan

Thanks so much, Cardinals -- very helpful. I'll keep poking around for other tailors or ask a friend. 

These are indeed 3/2 sacks, and they're beautiful. There are a couple with darted jackets. Sadly, I just found a few more in the basement that are a bit mildewed -- bummer. 

Thanks again. Any more advice?


----------



## Steve Smith

Talk to the dry cleaner about mildew removal. Maybe they can get it out. It would be worth it for Southwicks. And I will chime in that Southwick is IMHO one of the top brands.


----------



## chacend

M. Morgan said:


> (2) If I should go ahead and get 'em tailored, where should I go? I'm a student, so I'd love to avoid breaking the bank. Having the work done properly, however, is my top priority.
> 
> Help? Thanks!


M.Morgan,

Field English Tailor on Wisconsin in Georgetown is excellent. The owner, Will Field took over for his father who had been in DC since the 60's. He mostly does bespoke work but also takes alterations. With regards to cost, it will depend on what you need done and the difficulty/time of the alteration. He just completed work on a couple of J.Press sacks for me and the alterations were top notch. I would at least go there and see what he thinks needs to be done and unlike some he is not offended if you ask about cost.

If you do go with him, I would have basic things like hemming pants and sleeves done elsewhere to save money.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Steve Smith said:


> Talk to the dry cleaner about mildew removal. Maybe they can get it out. It would be worth it for Southwicks. And I will chime in that Southwick is IMHO one of the top brands.


I have been very impressed with Southwick quality. I have an ebay-ed sack blazer that is my favorite among my 3 (Press, BB, and Southwick) and I ordered a MTM suit about 3 or so weeks ago that I'm very excited to receive.


----------



## P Hudson

M. Morgan said:


> (1) For those familiar with the quality of Southwick suits: are they durable enough for it to be worth my while and my money to have them tailored? They have been cared for wonderfully and are gorgeous suits. I doubt that they've been heavily worn. Being a trad, of course I want to wear my father's suits, but is the quality so high as to make it worth it?


I have had numerous alterations done by my local tailor, a very old Italian man. Only twice has he commented on the quality of the clothing, and both times they were jackets by Southwick. He doesn't know Trad, but he knows quality, and he thinks that Southwick has it.


----------



## WindsorNot

Curse my high arches! I knew they would be the death of me sooner than later. I've got two pair of high quality shoes that fit great in two dimensions (length/width), but which have tight vamps. I don't want to sacrifice fit in other areas if I can stretch the vamp. Does anybody have any experience with vamp/instep stretchers? And further, would it work on patent leather?

Particularly this one:
https://www.shop.com/Instep_Vamp_Stretcher-29313376-38405840-p+.xhtml?sourceid=298?

Thanks forum, as always.


----------



## M. Morgan

Thanks all for the comments on Southwick suits. I'm with you -- I think these are quality suits.

Any more suggestions on DC tailors?


----------



## Cardinals5

Just snagged these Brooks Brothers suede chukkas with brick red sole. Any information as to the original manufacturer? They don't look like Alden, but I'm not sure of other U.S. makers for BB.


----------



## Cardinals5

Hello? Hello? Where's the shoe gang? Uncle Mac - you disappear for a couple of days and we need you  to help with an Alden question.


----------



## Tenacious Tassel

QUESTION:

Who is your favorite sales rep at JPress? And, if I take an odd size (44XL), would I be better connecting with a *NYC* rep given their wider selection, or can any Press salesman help me with their entire inventory?


----------



## Sir Cingle

In general, I have found that all the sales reps at J. Press are fantastic. Their service is second to none, which is one of the reasons shopping there is such a delight. I particularly esteem James in New Haven, but you can't go wrong with anyone, I think.

I am not sure that speaking with the people in NYC is more important than elsewhere, since Press can move goods around from one store to another easily. Also, I think that the NYC Press salesmen are entirely on commission, whereas the reps in New Haven are not. Thus perhaps the New York folks would be more likely to attempt to get you to buy something that isn't quite right for you. But, to be honest, I don't think this would happen.

There is much to be said for contacting Press in New Haven. Both James and Jimmy are very helpful there, and the store tends to get less business, which means that they will likely spend more time with you.

Again, when dealing with Press sales reps, I don't think you can go wrong!



Tenacious Tassel said:


> QUESTION:
> 
> Who is your favorite sales rep at JPress? And, if I take an odd size (44XL), would I be better connecting with a *NYC* rep given their wider selection, or can any Press salesman help me with their entire inventory?


----------



## mjo_1

^ I totally agree...every Press salesman that I've dealt with has been great. This summer I bought a blazer from David at the NYC store, and he was very helpful. Recently I called the DC store and spoke with Trevor at the recommendation of a forum member. He is probably my favorite among all of them. While the NYC guy was somewhat dry and down to business, Trevor was more willing to chat about new products, etc. while placing my order. That being said, I've always been pleased with everyone at any Press location. 

From what I understood from talking with Trevor, there is no warehouse full of Press goods, and the website reflects what is collectively in stock at the stores. I gathered that it's relatively easy for items to move between stores as well. 

Whatever you do, call any of the stores rather than use the web site!


Best,

Michael


----------



## Tenacious Tassel

Thanks, good to know!


----------



## Mississippi

*Quoddy Boat Shoes, cushioning?*

I'm looking at getting a pair of Quoddy boat shoes, however I have had back problems in the past and require cushioning/arch support. Do these shoes offer much? To compare Sperry AO's don't work at all.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Based on past discussions, it's my understanding that Quoddy's are a little better in terms of arch support, although not much.

Based on empirically-based reasoning, minimalist/AO-style boat shoes don't have much, if any cushioning. Look towards a more substantial boat shoe if that's what you require, i.e. Rockport Perth.


----------



## Moose Maclennan

Has anyone ever had engraved initials buffed out of a sterling belt buckle, and if so were you happy with the result?

Or would you prefer to treat a monogram as part of the history of the piece?


----------



## RileyDee

Moose Maclennan said:


> Has anyone ever had engraved initials buffed out of a sterling belt buckle, and if so were you happy with the result?
> 
> Or would you prefer to treat a monogram as part of the history of the piece?


I would like to know the answer to buffing it out as well.










Has anyone seen a scarf/muffler with buttons like this before? Idea about history etc.?


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Never seen a scarf with buttons, but my wife has a great wool shawl that has a hook and latch closure and pockets on both ends of the shawl - it's a great vintage piece. Whatever yours is, it's a nice find and something unusual to wear for a change of pace.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Moose Maclennan said:


> Has anyone ever had engraved initials buffed out of a sterling belt buckle, and if so were you happy with the result?
> 
> Or would you prefer to treat a monogram as part of the history of the piece?


I took a buckle to Tiffany and they told me they couldn't buff out the engraving because it was hand cut.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I seem to recall someone here talking about having an old monogram buffed out.


----------



## Moose Maclennan

AdamsSutherland said:


> I took a buckle to Tiffany and they told me they couldn't buff out the engraving because it was hand cut.





Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I seem to recall someone here talking about having an old monogram buffed out.


Thanks for that.

This is a Brooks Brothers sterling buckle, and on reflection I do think I'll leave the engraving as it is, as it's very finely done. And who knows who it belonged to, after all - perhaps I'd regret it?

I like the idea of inventing an ancestor with matching initials...


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Were it me, I would be inclined to simply look at the original monogram on the buckle, as part of the "history of the piece", leaving things the way they are. Should this really bother you, you could always go to court and change your name to match the initials in the original monogram (LOL!)!


----------



## Moose Maclennan

eagle2250 said:


> ...the initials in the original monogram (LOL!)!


^
not L·O·L, but C·K·O



eagle2250 said:


> ...I would be inclined to simply look at the original monogram on the buckle, as part of the "history of the piece", leaving things the way they are.


^
I feel happier with that too.

One of my cocktail shakers is sterling, engraved with 'David & Ann'. Never dreamt of changing that inscription. I often raise a martini in their honour. Whoever and wherever they may be.


----------



## Tenacious Tassel

Mississippi said:


> I'm looking at getting a pair of Quoddy boat shoes, however I have had back problems in the past and require cushioning/arch support. Do these shoes offer much? To compare Sperry AO's don't work at all.


I find the cushioning in Quoddy's almost indistinguishable from Sperry's after a few weeks of wear. The main draw of Quoddy's is their handsewn construction and high quality leather.

If you are looking for an ultra cushioned boat shoe (that still maintains some element of traditional styling), try the *Rockport Perth*.


----------



## chiamdream

Anyone know when the next large Polo.com sale is coming? I see they have a restock of the Darlton pennies....


----------



## TradMichael

Say fellas, I have a question about how one goes about sizing yourself for a sweater like the following ... do you generally look for the same size as your jacket size? Thanks!



Cardinals5 said:


> Pendleton shawl-collared charcoal wool sweater with colorful highlight yarn. Two front side pockets, faux leather buttons, 100% wool.
> 
> Condition: Excellent, no apparent flaws
> Tagged: L
> Chest: 46
> Length: 28
> Sleeves: difficult to determine because of the stretchiness of the wool, but I'd say around 34" from the middle of back with ends cuffed.
> 
> Price: $30 Sold, pending payment


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Jacket size and sweater size are sometimes similar and frequently not - depends on the relationship between jacket size and chest size you prefer.

I wear a 40 jacket (42" chest) and so tend to purchase sweaters with a 42" chest so the sweater is fitted, but not too snug. If I want a sweater vest for under a jacket, then I'll purchase a 40" chest so it's tighter. 

All that is to say, it really depends on how tight you like your sweaters. So for me it's: jacket size for snug (40), actual jacket chest for fitted (42), +2 to 4 inches for a looser sweater look (44-46).


----------



## Cardinals5

I was skimming through old WAYW posts (not surprising AlanC and Patrick win the award for classic trad looks and consistency in posting) and came across this picture and it gave me a chuckle. At one time it was someone's avatar (I lost the name), but thought others might get a kick out of it too.

And, since I'm supposed to ask a question in this thread - does anyone else have a good slogan for our forum?

https://img52.imageshack.us/i/2ophia61.gif/


----------



## Beefeater

Cardinals5 said:


> And, since I'm supposed to ask a question in this thread - does anyone else have a good slogan for our forum?


AAAC Trad Forum: "_Yesterday's Clothing Today_."


----------



## randomdude

Do look like they have double soles? The guy says no but I'm not sure. Thanks!


----------



## Cardinals5

Those do look like they have double soles - probably Florsheim for Stafford and decent quality.


----------



## Enron

Dumb question - if one wears a 42S in Brooks Bros, how would that compare to J Press? Does Press run smaller or larger in relation to Brooks?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Enron said:


> Dumb question - if one wears a 42S in Brooks Bros, how would that compare to J Press? Does Press run smaller or larger in relation to Brooks?


I think the size discrepancy emerges more at larger sizes. Press seems to have slightly smaller arms.

I'm sure someone closer to your size can provide a better answer.


----------



## 4dgt90

Moose Maclennan said:


> Has anyone ever had engraved initials buffed out of a sterling belt buckle, and if so were you happy with the result?
> 
> Or would you prefer to treat a monogram as part of the history of the piece?


I was given a sterling silver engine turned buckle from Ben Silver that I had machine monogrammed at a Things Remembered at the mall. 2 years later, I didn't like the way it was done and so I had it buffed out by a jewelry store and redone. At first I was worried they would hit the box around the area where your initials go since mine were so close (like 1mm away) and they could not offer a guarantee but they did a very good job for $30 and I was very very impressed and got it remonogrammed.


----------



## WindsorNot

AdamsSutherland said:


> I think the size discrepancy emerges more at larger sizes. Press seems to have slightly smaller arms.
> 
> I'm sure someone closer to your size can provide a better answer.


I'm a 38s and Press seems to fit a little more snug. The biggest differences are the waist of the trousers and the armholes of the jacket.


----------



## MacT

Enron said:


> Dumb question - if one wears a 42S in Brooks Bros, how would that compare to J Press? Does Press run smaller or larger in relation to Brooks?


My experience: it depends where the Press jacket was made. I'm a 42R in most everything. A US/Southwick made Press 42R fits perfectly. The Canada made jackets are snug around the armholes & tight in the upper back on me, so I have to go up to 43 or 44.


----------



## Sir Cingle

Mac T is absolutely correct. I've bought a few jackets at Press this year, and some of them are 43L, whereas others are 42L. There isn't complete consistency here. And this means that it is best to try something on, rather than purchase from the Web site.


----------



## BearBear

How does one use AE Cleaner/Conditioner?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

This is clearly not a sack as the darts are visible from the thumbnail...
but could it be a 3r2?


----------



## Cardinals5

Yep, it looks like a darted 3/2. The darted 3/2 is fairly popular over on SF.


----------



## C. Sharp

I would just add that it does look like it should be buttoned on the second button.
There appears to be a lot of stress on the top button. A couple of decades ago this configuration 3/2 with darts would not of seemed odd to the average customer.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Sounds good.

This reminds me that i need to post the story of my MTM fitting... and how the owner of the story told me that I didn't want a 3r2 because that's what my grandfather wore when he was at Harvard...

Once I get the suit back...It should be about 2 weeks.


----------



## chacend

Enron said:


> Dumb question - if one wears a 42S in Brooks Bros, how would that compare to J Press? Does Press run smaller or larger in relation to Brooks?


Im' a 44S in Brooks and a 44S in all Canadian made JPress. If it is a USA made JPress it will run larger. I can wear a 42 in the USA made JPress, but they have never had a 44S USA JPress in stock for me to try on.

I would say you are safe with the Canadian stuff in same size but would recommend trying on the USA stuff first.


----------



## Topsider

AdamsSutherland said:


> i need to post the story of my MTM fitting... and how the owner of the stor[e] told me that I didn't want a 3r2 because that's what my grandfather wore when he was at Harvard...


Seems like all the more reason to want it. Don't forget, the customer is always right.


----------



## Jovan

C. Sharp said:


> I would just add that it does look like it should be buttoned on the second button.
> There appears to be a lot of stress on the top button. A couple of decades ago this configuration 3/2 with darts would not of seemed odd to the average customer.


I'm sure even in 1990 the average customer would not be too familiar with that buttoning style. By the way, it's "would not have." 



AdamsSutherland said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> This reminds me that i need to post the story of my MTM fitting... and how the owner of the story told me that I didn't want a 3r2 because that's what my grandfather wore when he was at Harvard...
> 
> Once I get the suit back...It should be about 2 weeks.


How is that a bad thing?


----------



## C. Sharp

If the point is that two button jackets are more common then 3/2's I would not argue that. What I would say is that a couple is more then two. I believe that the jacket shown is a contract piece from the 80's. Your average men's shop customer would go to his local shop and would buy what was available. That customer would not say "What's with the third button" or "I am sorry but this jacket has darts" There has been 3/2's with darts, 3/2's with a little shoulder, 3/2's with no darts but tapered, high button 3/2's, low button 3/2's, 3/2's with wide lapels, 3/2's with narrow Lapels etc. At any given time the "average customer" buying the jacket would not have found anything odd about it.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Jovan said:


> I'm sure even in 1990 the average customer would not be too familiar with that buttoning style. By the way, it's "would not have."
> 
> *How is that a bad thing?*


That's what I didn't understand... One would think that if a customer made numerous comments about wanting Trad-inspired features on his suit, he probably knows what he wants and how he wants it to look. You should have seen the look I got when I asked for 1.75" cuffs.

Like I said, when I post pictures, I'll share the story.


----------



## D&S

AdamsSutherland said:


> You should have seen the look I got when I asked for 1.75" cuffs.


How/at what point did 1.75" become the "traddest" length for cuffs?


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I've had great success with "the mac method" or Shell Cordovan care, but I have just picked up a new secondhand pair that could use a bit more.
I was thinking of a conditioner, and perhaps something to give a little luster/darkness to the shell.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

D&S said:


> How/at what point did 1.75" become the "traddest" length for cuffs?


I have no idea. I just happened to want a substantial cuff.

TBS,

You might be fine with some wax and a lot of elbow grease.


----------



## D&S

Picked up a pair of Bally bit loafers for $10 at the thrift store today in really great shape, only problem is they are slightly too narrow for my feet. (Not a trad brand, but the price was right and they're sharp looking). Since they are a soft leather, I'm tempted to think that they will stretch out if I keep slightly too big shoe trees in them long enough. Is this an accurate assumption or am I better off putting my shoe trees into a more deserving shoe and sending the Ballys back to the thrift store?


----------



## Bermuda

lately I have purchased 2 blazers on Ebay.....they are tight in the chest/armpit area.....I have no idea about altering blazers/sport coats because I have never had to alter one!.....can this material be let out more so that it fits? How do I know???? thanks


----------



## Cardinals5

Bermuda said:


> lately I have purchased 2 blazers on Ebay.....they are tight in the chest/armpit area.....I have no idea about altering blazers/sport coats because I have never had to alter one!.....can this material be let out more so that it fits? How do I know???? thanks


Whoa - never had to alter a jacket! Finding a tailor/alterations person can be both exciting and nerve racking. Here's hoping you find someone good.

As to your question, if you pinch the fabric along the side seams and carefully feel the fabric you'll notice some extra fabric folded inside the seams (you'll feel the double thickness) and can then estimate how much you can let out the jacket.


----------



## Bermuda

Thanks alot for the help....seriously though I've always tried the jacket on first...but on Ebay a couple of my jackets just have not fit properly (one of the bad things about Ebay is that you can't try things on) Luckily my ritzy town has several tailors!


----------



## Cardinals5

Yeah, I suppose New York probably has a couple of decent tailors. I'm not sure on his pricing, but I'd go for Paul Winston and Winston Tailors - anything related to Chipp seems like trad heaven to me. That's actually my dream suit - a bespoke solid navy 3/2 sack suit with 2" cuffs from Winston Tailors. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll ever get one.


----------



## Quorum

The sleeve lengths I see listed for sweaters seem very short to me (e.g., I think in the current J. Press shaggy dog thread it is stated that the large size has 32" sleeves). What should the relationship be between shirt sleeve length and sweater sleeve length?


----------



## Cardinals5

Not worth a separate thread, but the book Take Ivy is being released again in late August.

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1576875504//ref=nosim/thestyleforum-20


----------



## Jack1425

Cardinals5 said:


> Yeah, I suppose New York probably has a couple of decent tailors. I'm not sure on his pricing, but I'd go for Paul Winston and Winston Tailors - anything related to Chipp seems like trad heaven to me. That's actually my dream suit - a bespoke solid navy 3/2 sack suit with 2" cuffs from Winston Tailors. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll ever get one.


Sadly, travel just 60 miles north and the search for a competent tailor becomes ridiculously more difficult. If anyone knows of any in the Dutchess County, NY area do pass that info along.


----------



## M. Morgan

*Help with IDing ties?*

My dad passed down some old ties to me that I wore and loved for a long time without wondering much about them, but for whatever reason I'm now itching to know more about them. The ties are thin and I would guess they date from the late '80s or early '90s, and they pretty much run the gamut, style-wise: a couple madras (which I stupidly gave to my brother), some dot patterns, repp ties.

The loop on the back of the tie has only an image and no words. The logo looks like a french horn with a ribbon on it (with the ribbon tied the way cancer/AIDS awareness ribbons typically appear.

Anyone know what sort of ties these are?

Thanks in advance -- one of these days I'll get a camera and upload pictures, but today is not that day.


----------



## chacend

M. Morgan said:


> My dad passed down some old ties to me that I wore and loved for a long time without wondering much about them, but for whatever reason I'm now itching to know more about them. The ties are thin and I would guess they date from the late '80s or early '90s, and they pretty much run the gamut, style-wise: a couple madras (which I stupidly gave to my brother), some dot patterns, repp ties.
> 
> The loop on the back of the tie has only an image and no words. The logo looks like a french horn with a ribbon on it (with the ribbon tied the way cancer/AIDS awareness ribbons typically appear.
> 
> Anyone know what sort of ties these are?
> 
> Thanks in advance -- one of these days I'll get a camera and upload pictures, but today is not that day.


Based on your (and mine) location the first thing that popped into my head was a local DC shop called WM Fox (they have a French Horn as their logo). Long time DC men's store down on G Street by the White House. Of course I don't where your dad was from so I could be way off base.


----------



## HistoryDoc

The shoe laces on my bucks are too short. Does anyone know of a good source for some longer laces that would work in bucks?


----------



## Steve Smith

What does LHS stand for?


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Leisure Hand Sewn


----------



## Joe Tradly

Hi'a folks, Joe Tradly here, long time poster, first time on this thread.

I have a pair of Alden-for-Brooks shell tassel loafers. The soles are about to wear through, but I think it's too soon for a complete recrafting by Alden.

Can I take these to my regular cobbler for a new set of half-soles and still be able to send them to Alden when they are really tired? 

IE, does "being touched by the hand of a cobbler other than Alden" void the warranty, so to speak?

I've heard this before, but I suspect someone here knows for certain.

Thanks
JB


----------



## longwing

Joe, Their policy now is not as important as what it will be in a couple of years when you finally send them in. Wouldn't risk it.


----------



## eagle2250

I am not sure about Alden's re-crafting policy but, AE will not re-craft a pair of their shoes that have been half-soled by another cobbler. I would echo LongWing's advice...don't chance it!


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ The gents above have sound advice. I recently had Alden recraft a pair of Alden for BB full strap shell loafers that had been completely resoled by another cobbler and Alden didn't refuse to service them (see the "Documenting the Alden Restoration Experience" thread for pics and details).


----------



## Joe Tradly

Appreciate the insight, gents.

JB


----------



## Cardinals5

I've been trying to wear braces a bit more often lately because of the improved drape and greater comfort around my midsection. I've tried most of the usual suspects (except Albert Thurston since they're a little out of my price range at the moment) and was considering purchasing a pair of beagle braces from Chipp2 (I have a beagle) in the next month or two. I have a Chipp2 tie, which is high quality, and I assume the braces are also very good quality. 

Before I order, does anyone have experience with the Chipp2 braces and how is the quality, hardware, etc.?


----------



## Neighbor

*Traditional vs slim-fit OCBDs*

Which is more trad, traditional or slim-fit OCDBs?

As I understand, slim-fit (aka tailored fit) is more of a modern look.


----------



## Trip English

Neighbor said:


> Which is more trad, traditional or slim-fit OCDBs?
> 
> As I understand, slim-fit (aka tailored fit) is more of a modern look.


Not necessarily. A tailored fit is just as correct as a more generous cut. It's the snug chest hugging shirts you want to shy away from. Many of us, even the more senior members, have moved to a tailored version of Land's End, Brooks Brothers, Ralph Lauren, or otherwise just to get a better fit, not a more modern one.

EDIT: It's more important that the shirt not have any non-iron treatment. This is critical if you desire to stay within the Trad canon. Both wrinkles and ironing are very trad.


----------



## Neighbor

Trip English said:


> Not necessarily. A tailored fit is just as correct as a more generous cut. It's the snug chest hugging shirts you want to shy away from.


Got it, thank you!

Why should I shy away from chest hugging shirts? Can you please explain this?


----------



## Trip English

Neighbor said:


> Got it, thank you!
> 
> Why should I shy away from chest hugging shirts? Can you please explain this?


It's one thing to go to a slimmer fit to reduce blousing and gathering of excess fabric, but at the point that a garment starts to squeeze you too tightly you're likely to look as though your shirt is too small.

There are certainly styles on the sartorial spectrum where very snug fitting clothing is the standard, but in those cases, the proportions are carefully correct in other ways (sleeve length is perfect on shirts & jackets, pants are worn without a break and very tapered in the leg, etc.). The tighter you wear your clothes, the more control you need to exert over each aspect of proportion. Not only is this difficult, but it's almost exclusively pulled off by people under 30 (this might describe you, I don't know!)

Having a well fitting yet relaxed look, which defines the Trad aesthetic, allows for looser tolerances all around the body without confusing the eye of the onlooker with a detail here or there throwing off the composition. It's also, I would argue, a hell of a lot more comfortable than snugly fitting clothing.


----------



## Neighbor

Trip English said:


> Having a well fitting yet relaxed look, which defines the Trad aesthetic, allows for looser tolerances all around the body without confusing the eye of the onlooker with a detail here or there throwing off the composition.


This is what I wanted to know. Thanks for explaining it so clearly.


----------



## Steve Smith

What is this "H" symbol on the VV belt?


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Some prep school I'd imagine. I know my old prep school started making VV stuff a year or two after I graduated.


----------



## Beefeater

Trip English said:


> It's one thing to go to a slimmer fit to reduce blousing and gathering of excess fabric, but at the point that a garment starts to squeeze you too tightly you're likely to look as though your shirt is too small.
> 
> There are certainly styles on the sartorial spectrum where very snug fitting clothing is the standard, but in those cases, the proportions are carefully correct in other ways (sleeve length is perfect on shirts & jackets, pants are worn without a break and very tapered in the leg, etc.). The tighter you wear your clothes, the more control you need to exert over each aspect of proportion. Not only is this difficult, but it's almost exclusively pulled off by people under 30 (this might describe you, I don't know!)
> 
> Having a well fitting yet relaxed look, which defines the Trad aesthetic, allows for looser tolerances all around the body without confusing the eye of the onlooker with a detail here or there throwing off the composition. It's also, I would argue, a hell of a lot more comfortable than snugly fitting clothing.


Well done, sir.


----------



## randomdude

Hi all,

Now that we're finally getting some decent weather, I wonder - is it too early to break out the madras neckties? I have two in particular that I want to wear, tasteful patterns from J. Press.

Much appreciated!


----------



## H-Cut

Hello everyone,

Does anyone know when the next significant Brooks Brothers sale occurs? Especially one that might include shoe discounts?

Is it the Father's Day sale?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## Patrick06790

randomdude said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Now that we're finally getting some decent weather, I wonder - is it too early to break out the madras neckties? I have two in particular that I want to wear, tasteful patterns from J. Press.
> 
> Much appreciated!


Let the weather be your guide. Look pretty goofy with a madras tie on if it starts to snow, which up here in the woods is a distinct possibility well into April, if not May.


----------



## Cactus

Anyone have a safe way to shrink leather loafers up a bit? I've dug around a bit on the internet and found a trick using a vinegar soaked cloth, but it seems suspect.

I have a pair of drivers that fit almost perfectly when I got them (_wanted to go a 1/2 size smaller when I got them - didn't have them in that size, and a full size smaller was just too uncomfortable_), but now after some wear my foot has a little too much space to shift around in them.


----------



## Jovan

randomdude: I'm with Patrick on this. Officially spring starts on Monday, but if it's still cold I (sadly) won't be breaking out the madras anytime soon either.


----------



## chacend

H-Cut said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Does anyone know when the next significant Brooks Brothers sale occurs? Especially one that might include shoe discounts?
> 
> Is it the Father's Day sale?
> 
> Thanks for your help.


As far as shoe discounts, yes it will be the semi-annual after Father's Day.


----------



## AldenPyle

Ususally they have a 25% off everything (except maybe cordovan) Friends and Family sale in Spring. End of April, last year.


----------



## eagle2250

Cactus said:


> Anyone have a safe way to shrink leather loafers up a bit? I've dug around a bit on the internet and found a trick using a vinegar soaked cloth, but it seems suspect.
> 
> I have a pair of drivers that fit almost perfectly when I got them (_wanted to go a 1/2 size smaller when I got them - didn't have them in that size, and a full size smaller was just too uncomfortable_), but now after some wear my foot has a little too much space to shift around in them.


Rather than applying some 'chancy' process to shrink them down, perhaps you should try tightening the fit by inserting a pair of thin, after-market insoles. Adjust the thickness of the insoles, as necessary, to achieve the desired fit!


----------



## Cactus

eagle2250 said:


> Rather than applying some 'chancy' process to shrink them down, perhaps you should try tightening the fit by inserting a pair of thin, after-market insoles. Adjust the thickness of the insoles, as necessary, to achieve the desired fit!


Haha, I knew there was a better way to go about it! Good call.


----------



## Trip English

Cactus said:


> Haha, I knew there was a better way to go about it! Good call.


I would have suggested foot implants, but I _guess_ insoles are easier.


----------



## Jack1425

Quick (and I hope) easy question lads. Picked up two BB Poplin suits on clearance not to long ago, one in Olive and the other in Khaki. My concerns are proper foot wear, specifically with the Khaki suit. It would be interesting to hear some ideas as this is actually my first foray into cotton suiting and am a tad nervous as to shoe pairings. Loafer, oxfords, LWB's etc. Also, would shades of brown pair up? I appreciate any thoughts.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Alden LHS's, in whiskey shell (I can dream, can't I?); AE McAllisters, in walnut calf; Alden LWB's, in alpine grained, tan calf (will look best with the olive suit but, can also work acceptably well with the khaki colored suit.). The lighter toned leathers play well with the casual nature of the poplin suits, IMHO.


----------



## Jack1425

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Alden LHS's, in whiskey shell (I can dream, can't I?); AE McAllisters, in walnut calf; Alden LWB's, in alpine grained, tan calf (will look best with the olive suit but, can also work acceptably well with the khaki colored suit.). The lighter toned leathers play well with the casual nature of the poplin suits, IMHO.


I appreciate the offerings, but must admit that my current collection lacks in overall variety (I too dream). I have a pair of med brown PTB's, AE Waldens. I think the shell imperials would be a bit too heavy for the suit as a whole.

The suits are really nice, although a little baggy in the trousers legs for my taste.


----------



## Coleman

My vote's white bucks (or even dirty . . . or both! but not at the same time, of course).

EDIT: Your medium brown PTBs would be fine IMO, if you're not looking for an excuse to purchase more shoes .


----------



## brozek

*Bass bucks - options*

I feel like I'm missing something really obvious, but could someone explain the difference between the original Bass Buckinghams and the Bass Brocktons? I'm looking at the Taupe Suede for both, and other than a slight variation in color and a different tread pattern, I'm just not seeing much of a difference. I've only seen them online, so maybe the difference would be obvious if I was holding them in my hands.

*Update:* And if I can further complicate my question, there also seems to be a very, very similar for about the same price as the Brocktons. I don't see the Exeters on the Bass website (at least not in adult sizes) or on Zappos, so maybe they were discontinued and renamed the Brockton.


----------



## Jack1425

Coleman said:


> My vote's white bucks (or even dirty . . . or both! but not at the same time, of course).
> 
> EDIT: Your medium brown PTBs would be fine IMO, if you're not looking for an excuse to purchase more shoes .


I'd never actually considered wearing bucks and like the idea for a more casual look. I think my peals for BB in med brown would do the job as well for a more "uncasual" look.. I await the opportunity for a drive to the Westport, CT BB to have suits fitted. Sadly, I have no other tailor options near my particular AO...

Thanks again for the input!

Note on shoes: Before coming out of my "trad" closet and frequenting the Trad forum, I had 1 pair of unknown wingtips, black with rubber soles!! A year or two later and the collection is growing nicely with quality examples that I must admit fit better than any shoes I have worn in the past. Having said that, if I do not slow down soon, I may have to rent that dog house of yours...


----------



## Luckycharmboi2

*Tan Brogues*

Church's or C&J? Tried on the Church's and they felt a little wide for me. Also, heard Church's have gone down in quality since the Prada takeover. The Church's are a little more expensive, but not significantly so. C&Js tend to fit me fairly well. Suggestion?

Thanks.


----------



## Flyboy

*what to pack*

If you were to attend a week-long residency conference for graduate school followed by the actual graduation, on campus in Vermont during the month of June, AND the dress code is "business casual" ("business" for presentations and such)... what would you pack? Please be specific.


----------



## randomdude

Utterly great post from The Ivy League Look. Hilarious!


----------



## randomdude

^ Oh and see this for reference.


----------



## Joe Beamish

To what extent (if any) do the existence of patch pockets (say on a contemporary sack blazer from BB) make the jacket more casual than a blazer without them?


----------



## Coleman

^I think if you take into account the fact that 99% of people won't notice (at least consciously), it's negligible.

EDIT: LOL, I think it's even more negligible considering I am complimented on wearing "suits" in even my most casual sport coats.


----------



## Cardinals5

Joe Beamish said:


> To what extent (if any) do the existence of patch pockets (say on a contemporary sack blazer from BB) make the jacket more casual than a blazer without them?


I prefer patch pockets (3, if possible) so that other Trad Forum super members can identify me in public.

In all seriousness, as Coleman said, most people would never notice. The vast majority of people, if they knew the difference at all, would think the only distinction between a navy orphan and a blazer was the gold/silver buttons. That said, I do prefer patch pockets whenever possible because they do signal a certain level of casualness/informality, but this signal is only picked up by people like us.


----------



## Joe Beamish

Thanks, gents. Coleman knows I'm wresting with the concept of changing out my brass buttons on my blazer -- for self or MOP or horn buttons. Maybe. This would gut the blazer's natural jauntiness --- but that's rather my goal for business purposes with certain clients. (I have other blazers that I won't neuter.)

I was worried if the patch pockets would negate the point of this possible move.


----------



## DownByTheRiverSide

*Approximately . . .*

37.65 % more.



Joe Beamish said:


> To what extent (if any) do the existence of patch pockets (say on a contemporary sack blazer from BB) make the jacket more casual than a blazer without them?


----------



## Coleman

Joe Beamish said:


> I was worried if the patch pockets would negate the point of this possible move.


I think you'll still get your desired result. Gold-toned buttons are something I think people do notice, so removing them should change the tone of the jacket in the way that you want (and I don't think the patch pockets will negate that tone to others not keen to the type of considerations we take).

EDIT: Sometimes, in fact, I take joy and find meaning in being insidiously casual (but, hey, it's just me being overly existential about my external identity again). I'll be in a blazer, OCBD, knit tie, khakis, pennies, and no socks (most everything rumpled), and I'm supposedly dressed-up compared to the guys in tieless, spread collar dress shirts, worsted trousers, dress socks, and heavy, formal looking black shoes.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I hear you, Coleman. Thanks! Blazers present something of a conundrum to me. Supposedly they're insanely versatile, but less so in my experience. The brass buttons can limit them by (correctly) expressing the jacket's true heritage -- sporting and the military. This isn't the ideal expression I want for some clients. I do love the blazer's casual jauntiness, which I think is its core virtue.


----------



## Jovan

randomdude said:


> Utterly great post from The Ivy League Look. Hilarious!





randomdude said:


> ^ Oh and see this for reference.


It almost had me until I noticed the double polo, beer pitcher outdoors, and flip flops. Even the most slovenly Ivy Leaguers probably wouldn't do that in 1960.


----------



## WindsorNot

Joe Beamish said:


> To what extent (if any) do the existence of patch pockets (say on a contemporary sack blazer from BB) make the jacket more casual than a blazer without them?


I like to put my keys in the pockets when I'm feeling VERY casual.


----------



## PeterSawatzky

How does the Alden LHS fit? I take a 11.5 E in Allen Edmonds. Would a 11 D fit me?


----------



## Pink and Green

First timer in the question thread:

Is there an easy way to search eBay for 3 roll 2 suits and jackets?


----------



## Coleman

^I've never seen one listed as such (at least not in the listing title). One thing I'd often do when I didn't have the energy to look through all the results is to search "brooks blazer" or what have you and then filter by (it'll be an option on the left) three button.

Many sellers will button the top button on a 3/2, so you'll have to recognize the pull in those cases. Otherwise, the slit in the lapel is usually noticeable, even in the thumbnails.


----------



## Cardinals5

I search for "Brooks Brothers" and then just choose "3 button" suits/blazers on the left side of the screen to narrow the search and then just keep my eye on the small pictures for the distinctive quarters of 3/2 jackets (the lapels aren't always a giveaway because some people button the top button on a 3/2 on eBay). The quarters on most 3/2s are more open than a true three button. 

Once a week or so, just for kicks, I search all of eBay for "suit" and then comb through all the "3 button" and "used" suits (again, the ability to narrow searches is your friend). 

Typically, though, searching for something like, and use the parenthesis (Brooks, Southwick, Press, Hilton, Chipp) all at once will produce a single search that gives you all the results for those names and then again narrow the search to "3 button" suits/jackets. Occasionally someone will mislabel a 3/2 as a "2 button", but it's not worth wasting your time combing through all the results for 2 button jackets.


----------



## Joe Beamish

I come at each search from multiple different ways because kazillions of sellers have no idea what they're selling and therefore won't always use terms like "sack" or 3/2 roll, etc. I use the category, my size and the brand I'm looking for:

e.g., brooks suit 40

Relatively few J. Press items show up, so I just do a search for that brand.

Also it's a good idea to save specific sellers. Mack11211 is one of those who sells lots of trad stuff. He posts here actually. The prices aren't absolute steals but they can be good bargains and you won't be buying slum. Great seller.

It is possible, however, to score absolute steals -- often from people who are totally clueless.



Pink and Green said:


> First timer in the question thread:
> 
> Is there an easy way to search eBay for 3 roll 2 suits and jackets?


----------



## raincoat

Is ravello just a color? All these threads lately. . .


----------



## Coleman

It is a color, a color of Shell Cordovan from Horween. 

Here's Alden's LHS in Ravello, Cigar, #8, and Black to compare - .

Whiskey's the only other one used by Alden today (it is lighter than Ravello; check out the shoe thread and you're bound to see them all within a few pages). Horween has others, and other retailers/producers use others, as evidenced by the dark browns of AE and RL.

EDIT: Here's a shoe in Whiskey - .


----------



## raincoat

Thanks for the answer Coleman. 

I've been reading the forum for over a year now and don't remember reading about Ravello until recently. Maybe I just missed it. Everyone used to be all about the #8. Actually I had, until recently, been under the impression that cordovan leather was generally burgundy in color and that black cordovan was dyed cordovan. Now it seems all cordovan is colored cordovan. Shows how much I know about leather.


----------



## AldenPyle

Has anybody seen the Esquire Black Book of Style? I glance through it at the bookstore today, and it seemed there was an article discussing the AAAC Trad Forum. Did anyone discuss this here?


----------



## UgaVII's Trad

I'm in the market for a poplin suit. Can anyone comment on either the BB coolmax poplin sack, the O'Connell's, or any alternative? Thanks


----------



## MacT

UgaVII's Trad said:


> I'm in the market for a poplin suit. Can anyone comment on either the BB coolmax poplin sack, the O'Connell's, or any alternative? Thanks


O'Connell's has a couple of suppliers now. Previously, they carried the US-made cotton-poly blend ($325 last year, now $345), and now they also have a 100% cotton in a Canadian make ($395). I have one of the former, and like it quite a bit: comfortable, true to size, and breathes well in the heat. The tan cotton/poly is featured on the website, but they have had other colors available in the past (navy, olive & stone). My only reservation: although there is no shoulder padding to speak of, there is a cap (for lack of a better word) at the sleeve head that provides a little structure to the shoulder -- makes it a little less natural than I'd like.

I would not be surprised if OC's "new" Canadian suits were the same ones sold at Press, but I have not tried to verify that.


----------



## MHF

*J&M Aristocraft Fit*

Saw a pair of NOS Made in USA J&M Aristocraft Saddles on the eBay thread. Size is 11D. I usually wear a 10.5D. Anyone know if the J&Ms tend to run small?


----------



## Dragoon

Can someone tell me the proper name for the fabric these pants are made of? It looks like corduroy to me but my wife says it is not.


----------



## C. Sharp

If you put my feet to the fire, I would guess Bedford cord. But it is a guess and I would defer to more knowledgeable members.


----------



## Dragoon

I looked up Bedford cord and that seems right to me. I guess I really asked the wrong question. What I'm most curious about is if I can wear these pants in the summer. They aren't too heavy to wear but it would be seen as quite strange to wear cords here in the summer.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

They would be fine in a casual setting if they're not too warm. I've warn thin cords many a time in GA in the warmer months (but not high summer).


----------



## C. Sharp

I can not put my finger on a picture or source but I thought Bill's offered a Dixie cord pant at one time. Here is Bill's Beford cord


----------



## randomdude

Here's something I just thought of, as I pulled the trigger on a pair of wingtips that are from the '60s but in excellent shape. How far back, if at all, is too far back to purchase something and expect it to hold up? I mean these shoes look great but they're close to 50 years old.


----------



## C. Sharp

I know there are all sorts of threads on preserving shoes and other objects. What I find interesting is that some items die soon after be putting back in rotation and some things last almost forever. Some of it might be the nature of the material and storage conditions. My general thought is to respect the age of an object and not push it past it natural tolerance. I sort of think of it like taken an old man out of a nursing home and making him run a marathon. Not the best course when a walk around the block might be in order.


randomdude said:


> Here's something I just thought of, as I pulled the trigger on a pair of wingtips that are from the '60s but in excellent shape. How far back, if at all, is too far back to purchase something and expect it to hold up? I mean these shoes look great but they're close to 50 years old.


----------



## Cardinals5

Joe was asking a little while back about orphans as sport coats. I found this one today at a thrift store ($0.25!) and I'm not really sure whether it's a sport coat or an orphan. Even if an orphan, it strikes me as loud enough that it might stand on its own as a sport coat. It's a summer fabric and the coat is 1/2 lined, has finished internal seams, feels like a silk/wool blend, and fits perfectly without any alterations; however, it is 2B darted, but I don't mind those from time to time. It's from a mystery-maker for Jack Runnion, which is the nicest clothier in Greenville. 

What says the forum consensus? Can I pull this off as a sport coat? I'd probably pair it with gray worsteds, beige and cream linens, and possibly pale yellow cotton trousers.


----------



## Coleman

I'm for it!


----------



## mcarthur

i vote no


----------



## HistoryDoc

You'd have to replace the buttons, at the very least. I don't know if it would be worth it.


----------



## ZachGranstrom

I think it would look good.:icon_smile_big:


----------



## Reptilicus

*Alden LHS lasts*

Do the Alden calf LHS and cordovan LHS use the same last?


----------



## Cardinals5

Coleman said:


> I'm for it!





mcarthur said:


> i vote no





HistoryDoc said:


> You'd have to replace the buttons, at the very least. I don't know if it would be worth it.





ZachGranstrom said:


> I think it would look good.:icon_smile_big:


Seems the forum opinion is split. I tried the jacket on last night and held up different color trousers and, with the exception of pale yellow trousers, the jacket looks like an orphan. I think I'll just get rid of it because who needs a jacket that can only be paired with one pair of trousers. Funny thing is that if it were a suit I wouldn't wear it either because it's so loud in person.


----------



## mcarthur

good decision


----------



## The Rambler

An orphan; though the hideous, er, loud plaid is very nicely matched.


----------



## M. Morgan

I already asked this here and now that I need to get these suits tailored, time to ask once again, quickly.

Where in DC should I go to get three or four suits tailored? I'm busy as hell and can't stray far from the city, so I'd prefer it be somewhere in NW DC. I'd need him/her to take a look at one or two jackets and about four pairs of pants from some old Southwick suits of mine.

This is less important than where to get it done well, but about how much will work like this run me, per piece? I've never paid for tailoring work myself. The work will be simple -- hemming/cuffing on the pants and MAYBE having to take sleeves out on the jackets.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

I think you really want to head to SE, actually.


----------



## M. Morgan

I can do SE. I just don't have much time over the next couple of weeks to invest much time during the day in a trip to the tailor.


----------



## UgaVII's Trad

Are both dark brown and burgundy shoes a la AE Park Avenue acceptable to wear with a charcoal suit? Thanks


----------



## ZachGranstrom

UgaVII's Trad said:


> Are both dark brown and burgundy shoes a la AE Park Avenue acceptable to wear with a charcoal suit? Thanks


Yes. They're both acceptable to wear with a charcoal suit.


----------



## Lamarque

UgaVII's Trad said:


> Are both dark brown and burgundy shoes a la AE Park Avenue acceptable to wear with a charcoal suit? Thanks


Yes, both are acceptable.


----------



## Lamarque

I'm certain I've read this on the forum before, but with the search feature on the fritz a bit since the update I thought I'd ask here. Is the Alden for B2 shell plaintoe blucher on the Barrie last like the 990?


----------



## chinotshirt

can someone measure a current press bowtie at its widest for me?


----------



## LonelyAreTheBrave

I am looking for the website for Leather Man LTD belts. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Lonely: Here's Leatherman's men's belt main page:

https://elizab.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=EB&Category_Code=lm-belts


----------



## LonelyAreTheBrave

Sir Cingle said:


> ^Lonely: Here's Leatherman's men's belt main page:
> 
> https://elizab.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=EB&Category_Code=lm-belts


Thank you!


----------



## nhannon

*Quoddy liners*

If I'm planning on buying a pair of Quoddy's for barefoot use, should I opt for glove-lined or unlined? Their website states the glove lining is "made for barefoot comfort" but I've read elsewhere that unlined would be more comfortable sans socks. I also noticed that Alden's summer dirty and white bucks come unlined for barefoot use. Any insight? I'd prefer not to spend $200+ on a pair of Quoddy's to find them too uncomfortable to wear. For reference I have the new LL Bean bluchers and I think they're awful; they kill my feet and the leather resembles plastic.


----------



## mjo_1

How does one avoid the light line that inevitably appears down the front of dark colored dress socks from where they fold? Is the answer to buy higher quality socks? If so, then from where? Or perhaps the method of washing and drying is to blame? I'm very puzzled/annoyed by this - there's got to be some way to avoid it.


Best,

Michael


----------



## AdamsSutherland

What happened to Dark Brown Cordovan: A Photo Essay AKA Ode to Darltons thread??


----------



## M. Morgan

Any tips for how to remove a rather large stain from an all-season wool suit? Stain is from a sugary drink and has been in for several days, unfortunately. I just want to do whatever I can to make it easy on the drycleaner and to get rid of this thing. Any tips?

Edit: I've googled this but this is a damn big stain, so I'm wondering if any of the clothes-minded around here have something different but effective.

Second edit: I also realize this isn't necessarily a 'trad question.' So be it.


----------



## WindsorNot

Gentlemen:

I have a question regarding black tie wear. It is my assumption for a hot summer wedding requesting "black tie optional" ocurring in July in Irving outside of Dallas; a classic off-white single button shawl collar jacket with appropriate accessories would be in good taste. Am I incorrect? I am always weary of breaking out the thing too close to the city for fear of appearing as if I should be playing the sax or waiting on people. It's going to be hot out and I'd prefer this lighter jacket to my black DB. Thoughts?


----------



## WouldaShoulda

nhannon said:


> ...they kill my feet and the leather resembles plastic.


That's why they are killing your feet!!

Go unlined.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

chinotshirt said:


> can someone measure a current press bowtie at its widest for me?


4 7/8" roughly- this was done by folding the inner flared portion of the blade in half and measuring to the end of the blade...


----------



## mcarthur

WindsorNot said:


> Gentlemen:
> 
> I have a question regarding black tie wear. It is my assumption for a hot summer wedding requesting "black tie optional" ocurring in July in Irving outside of Dallas; a classic off-white single button shawl collar jacket with appropriate accessories would be in good taste. Am I incorrect? I am always weary of breaking out the thing too close to the city for fear of appearing as if I should be playing the sax or waiting on people. It's going to be hot out and I'd prefer this lighter jacket to my black DB. Thoughts?


After 6PM-black tie


----------



## WindsorNot

mcarthur said:


> After 6PM-black tie


Either rig would be black tie with all the classic bells and whistles. I guess the question is between an ivory jacket or a black jacket for an evening summer wedding noted as "black tie optional."


----------



## Coleman

I'm not super knowledgeable on black tie, but I'd say you'd have to be more than fine. The guys in suits are going to be fine as it's black tie optional.


----------



## mcarthur

WindsorNot said:


> Either rig would be black tie with all the classic bells and whistles. I guess the question is between an ivory jacket or a black jacket for an evening summer wedding noted as "black tie optional."


black jacket


----------



## zblaesi

I was referred to this section from the other section of the forum. (Apparently Lands End is "trad" staple.) 

I'm looking to build an affordable, temporary wardrobe until I lose weight. I've heard decent things about Lands End, and with sales, it seems really cheap. However, I know nothing about the different selections available. I primarily need some dress shirts (to be worn with jeans and khakis) and Oxfords, though I could perhaps use a sweater or something as well. Which shirt models - and what colors/patterns - do you recommend I get to build a minor wardrobe from scratch?

Thanks.


----------



## WindsorNot

mcarthur said:


> black jacket


Willco. Thanks Mac and Coleman.


----------



## WindsorNot

zblaesi said:


> Which shirt models - and what colors/patterns - do you recommend I get to build a minor wardrobe from scratch?


You'll want what's known as OCBDs, or oxford collar button downs. These are the basic oxford weave shirts with button down collars. You can get four at LE for less than $100 during sales events. Without knowing what you need or already have, I recommend one in each of white, blue, pink, and university stripe blue:

These will get you anywhere you want to go.


----------



## zblaesi

I notice that there are different variations on the Oxford on Lands End. What exactly is the difference? Do I want non-Iron? All cotton? Or what?

How are their non-Oxford dress shirts? (In fact, what exactly distinguishes an Oxford shirt from a pinpoint dress shirt?)

Oh, and finally, does LE really stand up? It's hard to believe at the low prices.

Thanks!


----------



## AdamsSutherland

What is this? Oh my!

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/Tutorials/AlexShirtFabrics.htm

Most users on this side are must-iron loyalists and will tell you to go with 100% cotton, must iron, oxford cloth.


----------



## tampabay1414

I have a few BB factory suits that have two-button darted jackets and plain-front pants that are not cuffed. While the suits are in traditional colors, in hindsight, they were a mistake, for a number of reasons. Still, I will have to live with this mistake for some time. I was wondering whether it would be worthwhile to have the pants cuffed to give the suits a look closer to the more traditional look I prefer and that is advocated on this forum. I am concerned that it will just look like a mishmash of styles and make a bad situation worse. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


----------



## Sir Cingle

Tampabay: The key is making the suits look more like you would like them to look, rather than simply what "is advocated on this forum." Yes, the full-on trad look focuses on 3/2 undarted sacks. But if you look at the WAYWT thread, plenty of folks wear darted 2-button jackets. Some, in fact, don't much care about darts, provided the jacket has natural shoulders. So, I'd say you should get cuffs if you like the look of them!


----------



## jbierce

*Outerwear*

I know this isn't seasonally appropriate, but what are some Trad coats for the winter? Opinions on duffle, pea, trench coats? And what are some popular brands?

Thanks!!


----------



## Cardinals5

There are lots of great winter coats that are considered "trad". Personally, I prefer English-made coats and jackets for winter wear.

Duffle: Gloverall
Trench: Burberrys
Peacoat: Sterlingwear, or similar real Navy issue
Car Coats: lots of brands, Aquascutum
Chesterfield (velvet collar)
"Standard" single-breasted overcoat (I prefer charcoal): Press, Brooks, Invertere, etc.
Polo Coat (camel color with belt)
Mackinaw Cruiser (for casual wear): Filson


----------



## jbierce

Thanks! This is a fantastic list. If you had to pick one, which type of coat would you suggest for a student? I'm leaning towards the duffel


----------



## Stark and Dormy

*Bermuda*

I'm getting ready for the Newport-Bermuda race and want to know what the proper way to dress Bermuda Business Attire. Bermuda shorts, over calf socks, blazer and tie. What about footwear? Leather dress shoes, topsiders, or bucks? Is a bowtie acceptable? Flat front or pleated shorts?


----------



## Cardinals5

jbierce said:


> Thanks! This is a fantastic list. If you had to pick one, which type of coat would you suggest for a student? I'm leaning towards the duffel


Absolutely, the duffle is great for a student (I like and have the navy Gloverall) and because it's not lined it can serve you pretty well from fall through early spring without being too hot. The duffle is good for casual wear, but also with a sport coat. As for sizing, I purchased mine in the same size as my sport coats, but others suggest to size up, which is just to say it depends on how fitted you like your outerwear. In either case, I think there are a couple of good threads that discuss the Gloverall duffle and how it fits. Start checking eBay now because off-season prices will be considerably lower than if you wait until fall, but be patient because Gloverall duffles show up fairly often.


----------



## CMDC

+1 on the duffle. After months spent thrifting/ebaying for one last year I finally found one and it became my indispensible winter coat over night. It goes with every occasion except for something formal. As a student it will be perfect. If I were starting a coat wardrobe anew, that's where I'd start.


----------



## zblaesi

I notice that LE is having another sale. I'd like to grab some button down shirts while it's going on. When I search for "oxford," I notice that there aren't many - if any - patterned oxfords. Furthermore, many of the shirts are non-iron, and most seem to be of the opinion that non-iron should be avoided. So which specific _models_ of LE dress shirts should I look for? Links would be appreciated.

EDIT

What a *****! I missed the sale by an hour. Oh well. The info would still be nice to know for next time.


----------



## P Hudson

Don't feel too bad. They run sales quite frequently and often have better deals than this current one. I looked online, but in the end didn't see anything to get excited about in my size. The shirts to look for are the Hyde Park (price sometimes drops to about $20) and the Original Oxford (which can be had for around $12 every now and then). The former is thicker, presumably better fabric than the latter. 

They also have a good variety of university stripes. I don't really know what you mean by "patterned oxfords": if you just mean anything beyond solids or stripes, then the highlander is very nice in a non-iron fabric, and somebody was recently wearing a paintbrush on the WAYWT thread that looked good--I think it requires ironing.


----------



## zblaesi

P Hudson said:


> Don't feel too bad. They run sales quite frequently and often have better deals than this current one. I looked online, but in the end didn't see anything to get excited about in my size. The shirts to look for are the Hyde Park (price sometimes drops to about $20) and the Original Oxford (which can be had for around $12 every now and then). The former is thicker, presumably better fabric than the latter.
> 
> They also have a good variety of university stripes. I don't really know what you mean by "patterned oxfords": if you just mean anything beyond solids or stripes, then the highlander is very nice in a non-iron fabric, and somebody was recently wearing a paintbrush on the WAYWT thread that looked good--I think it requires ironing.


What about the pinpoint shirts?

Also, isn't the Hyde Park discontinued?


----------



## Dr.Watson

Sadly, the Hyde park is discontinued until (so they say) the Fall of 2010. They still have some in pink in the overstock section though. The original oxford is becoming rarer as well.

I don't think LE makes must-iron pinpoint shirts anymore.

There are some patterns in the Overstock section.

Paintbrush Shirts -must iron 
https://www.landsend.cm/pp/LongSlee...X&CM_MERCH=IDX_00008__0000000008&origin=index

Original Oxford-must iron


----------



## Coleman

Does anyone have any experience with ? Do they run pretty true to size? I'd like a slim but not tight fit.


----------



## alexaristoi

Can someone say where I can find such a bag (or a similar model)?

How is that bag called?


Thank you


----------



## pejm

*Brooksease Blazer Color*

Question to anyone who owns a navy sack Brooksease blazer. Is the color very dark, almost black? I just received a hand-me-down that my father swears is blue, but it looks black to me.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
It is labeled as a BB 1818 navy blazer but, the navy does have a decided black cast to it. Only when out in bright sunlight or under high wattage interior lighting, does the navy blue color become apparent. I believe the Brookease blazers were made of the same cloth.


----------



## LoneSuitinDTW

Going to a wedding on Saturday and planning on wearing blue seersucker pants, white bucs, navy blazer and white shirt. Looking for belt suggestions. I would guess that if I went with a ribbon belt I wouldn't want it to match the tie.


----------



## My Pet. A Pantsuit

To echo Eagle's sentiments, BB's navy is almost black in the right (wrong?) lighting. I sometimes have to check the color code on the tag to know for sure (1= black, 42= navy).


----------



## zblaesi

How do Lands End OCBDs compare to BB OCBDs in terms of length? It'd be nice to have the option to wear the shirts untucked in really casual situations, but BB OCBDs are really long.


----------



## pejm

My Pet said:


> To echo Eagle's sentiments, BB's navy is almost black in the right (wrong?) lighting. I sometimes have to check the color code on the tag to know for sure (1= black, 42= navy).


My Pet, on which tag is the color code? I don't see a 42 on either tag. There is a P/01 on one of the tags.

Eagle/My Pet, thank you both for the response.


----------



## zblaesi

zblaesi said:


> How do Lands End OCBDs compare to BB OCBDs in terms of length? It'd be nice to have the option to wear the shirts untucked in really casual situations, but BB OCBDs are really long.


Anyone?


----------



## Jovan

Patience, grasshopper. Land's End shirts are shorter, which is a bit irritating since that last horizontal buttonhole is always showing above the waistband when tucked in.

I wouldn't wear a BB shirt untucked due to the tags and buttons showing, which is not a good look. (Though, you could always remove them with a seam ripper.) Unfortunately, their image marketing department didn't see it that way.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/men.process


----------



## abate

*Florsheim Royal Imperial Longwings*

I just purchased a pair of Florsheim Royal Imperial longwings (New Old Stock) with V Cleat. "RG" is imprinted in the sole of one shoe. Does anyone have an idea of what this may mean?


----------



## gooses

*Mystery Blazer*

Good morning.

I bought a blazer at the thrift store yesterday. Unfortunately, the tag is missing so I have no idea what kind it is.

The blazer itself is pretty standard: hook vent, two buttons, minimal shoulder padding and two button sleeves. It's darted and has rather narrow lapels. The only hints as to it's origins are a small tag hidden in one of the interior pockets that reads 'UNION MADE IN U.S.A. / ACTWU / AMALGAMATED CLOTHING & TEXTILE' and the pattern on the buttons. Does anyone recognize this button or have any idea who made this blazer? Thank you for your help.


----------



## Uncle Bill

Skill testing question for the Canadian contingent, any of you purchase Alden shoes online/over the phone? if so did you get hit with duties on top of the sales taxes?


----------



## Pink and Green

Yet another question.

How do Brooks OCBDs compare in fit with their Sport shirts? All my Brooks are sports (ie, sized 16 R, that is 16 neck, regular sleeve - 34), and I want to expand my wardrobe into their OCBD's proper.

I've noted in many designers that a sport shirt runs trim compared to an OCBD. Brooks have the tradition of being "tents". Does this hold true for them as well?


----------



## Trip English

The fit will be the same depending on material. If you're going from cotton sport shirts to cotton OCBDs. The only difference, I've found, is between the non-iron and classic cotton. The classic cotton are all around slimmer.

If you don't like the tent-like nature of BB shirts, try their slim or extra slim. I wear the slim and they're very trim for a decently fit guy.


----------



## Compaq

When wearing a shirt under a sweater, should the shirt sleeve reach out of the sweater, just as with a suit jacket?


----------



## Cardinals5

No set rule. I prefer for the shirt not to stick out of the sweater sleeve, but plenty of others like to show a little cuff.


----------



## Compaq

ok, thanks

btw, what's the difference between sportshirts and OCBDs?


----------



## ASH

I would really appreciate if you can let me know when and where to wear Black/White two tone shoes and with what? I just bought a pair from the John Lobb sale and love the shoes, but not too sure the occassion or the outfit to wear it with. Does it also go with a black tux/suite? Thanks.


----------



## fiddler

ASH said:


> I would really appreciate if you can let me know when and where to wear Black/White two tone shoes and with what? I just bought a pair from the John Lobb sale and love the shoes, but not too sure the occassion or the outfit to wear it with. Does it also go with a black tux/suite? Thanks.


Two tone shoes are generally considered a fairly casual shoe. Sadly I find that the black and white combination does not offer much versatility. In my eyes it looks best worn on informal occasions, with contrasting odd jacket and trousers. As shown in this esquire illustration;


----------



## Wisco

Compaq said:


> ok, thanks
> 
> btw, what's the difference between sportshirts and OCBDs?


A sport shirt is well a shirt you wear while "sporting". In contrast, an oxford cloth button down (OCBD) is a style of shirt due the choice of fabric and collar style. Brooks Brothers (BB) is the king of OCBD, but you can find them from many others.


----------



## Wisco

LoneSuitinDTW said:


> Going to a wedding on Saturday and planning on wearing blue seersucker pants, white bucs, navy blazer and white shirt. Looking for belt suggestions. I would guess that if I went with a ribbon belt I wouldn't want it to match the tie.


Ribbon belt would be a great choice with this planned outfit. You could go simple, stripes or solid, or patterned. I don't think it really matters, thought I'm not a fan of the "belt is the centerpiece" look of lime green or similar with an otherwise contrasting color ensemble. Since you didn't mention a tie, you could also consider a "rep tie" fabric belt... a little play on having a tie, but around your waist.


----------



## Compaq

Wisco said:


> A sport shirt is well a shirt you wear while "sporting". In contrast, an oxford cloth button down (OCBD) is a style of shirt due the choice of fabric and collar style. Brooks Brothers (BB) is the king of OCBD, but you can find them from many others.


I thought sport shirts were shirts to wear casually?


----------



## maesepedro

any recommendations regarding (penny) loafers that cost less than $300 and aren't died and shellacked in a wine / faux-cordovan manner?


----------



## G&T

I consider pennies throwaway shoes and am not willing to buy expensive ones, but I do like to avoid gloss when I can.

My favorites are Bass Logans in Tan - https://www.zappos.com/bass-logan-tan-leather.

I have yet to find a throwaway pair in burgundy that is not super shiny, but some of the Sebago Classics are not glossy (at least two of the browns appear to be not corrected grain, brown and dark brown) if you don't mind beefrolls - https://www.sebago.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/M-Dress/8811M/0/Men/Footwear/Dress/Mens/Classic.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

maesepedro said:


> any recommendations regarding (penny) loafers that cost less than $300 and aren't died and shellacked in a wine / faux-cordovan manner?


Allen Edmond's Walden penny should be -$200 on sale.

I saw a Florshiem Imperial beefroll penny (made in India) for -$100 that wasn't bad.


----------



## The Rambler

maesepedro said:


> any recommendations regarding (penny) loafers that cost less than $300 and aren't died and shellacked in a wine / faux-cordovan manner?


I've got a couple pair of brown Sebagos that I like very much, both well sub-150, both resoled once, both, as G&T says, beefrolls, which I like. To me, all but the finest full grain shoe leathers are corrected to some degree, but these would pass muster as uncorrected by most. But then, (call me sentimental), I always have a pair of the same plasticated "cordovan"-colored pennies that I've been wearing for almost 50 years going. Even posted them on the footwear thread once to see what the guys would say. They, kindly, did not comment :icon_smile_big:


----------



## G&T

I always have a pair of plasticky burgundy ones too, Rambler.

I always keep myself in three pairs, tan, brown, and burgundy, and since burgundy only seems to come plasticky in the throwaway models I take what I can get.

My current pennies are Bass Logans in tan and burgundy (the most classically---in look---Weejunesque model in the Weejun line currently in my opinion) and a pair of brown Sebago Classics.


----------



## MacT

Shoebuy is another source for tan Logans, if you want a non-glossy option in that color. Sebago Classics are available there, too,and they all can be had for 70-80 bucks, with the frequent discounts. 

Out of the box, the Antique Brown Sebagos are pretty plasticky looking, and are kind of an eggplant color. To remove the glossy finish, hit them with some rubbing alcohol, then some Purell-type hand cleaner (which has some moisturizer along with alcohol), let dry, and apply dark brown shoe cream. The result is what I'd call oxblood. There are several "color hack" threads around that provide detailed guidance on removing offensive glossiness, and/or changing color altogether. The brown Sebago classics ("waxy oiled brown" on some of the shoe sites) don't need the treatment, and the leather doesn't feel nearly as stiff.


----------



## Jovan

G&T: Thanks for the suggestions!


----------



## UgaVII's Trad

Does anyone have the Press promo code? Thanks


----------



## ZachGranstrom

UgaVII's Trad said:


> Does anyone have the Press promo code? Thanks


----------



## UgaVII's Trad

Thanks, ZG


----------



## a pine tree

Does anyone know if Brooks produced a 346 super 100s with a patch breast?


----------



## PeterSawatzky

How can you tell a Marks & Spencer's-era BB suit from a present-day one?


----------



## Luckycharmboi2

maesepedro said:


> any recommendations regarding (penny) loafers that cost less than $300 and aren't died and shellacked in a wine / faux-cordovan manner?


Just slightly less than $300, but they're doing free shipping on Sargent's. These are not grain-corrected, so they shouldn't look plasticy like so many of the old favorites now do

https://www.pediwear.co.uk/sargent/products/1469.php

David.


----------



## Kelorth

I will be taking a week-long trip to Santiago de Chile w a few weeks, to meet with clients. Current temperatures are 30's to 50's. I live in Miami, so no need for an overcoat, gloves, scarves, etc. Should I get one or could I wear a nice Sweater under a medium weight suit? This trip is probably not going to happen again.


----------



## crohnsappleadams

Kelorth said:


> I will be taking a week-long trip to Santiago de Chile w a few weeks, to meet with clients. Current temperatures are 30's to 50's. I live in Miami, so no need for an overcoat, gloves, scarves, etc. Should I get one or could I wear a nice Sweater under a medium weight suit? This trip is probably not going to happen again.


Wait until TweedyDon lists another scarf in the thrift thread and buy it. (This, btw, is the answer to many of life's biggest questions.)


----------



## crohnsappleadams

I have a few three-piece suits, but I've never owned braces, so naturally I have to re-adjust my pants on a regular basis to avoid belly bulge. Is there anything inherently wrong with cheap braces? Is there a certain type and/or brand I should be looking to buy?


----------



## Kelorth

crohnsappleadams said:


> Wait until TweedyDon lists another scarf in the thrift thread and buy it. (This, btw, is the answer to many of life's biggest questions.)


Thank you for replying to my horribly written question...:icon_smile_wink:

Just bought a Trench Coat with liner which should be enough for 1-2 customer meetings plus 1-2 days of touring customers plants/operations.

This is a fun trip, will let you know how skiing in The Andes turns out.:icon_smile_big:


----------



## PorterSq

Can anyone remind me when the major BB sales are annually, as well as the going rate for OCBDs at the sale? My memory is that it's 3 for either $179, $189, or $199 but I just can't remember. What's a good price for a BB OCBD on sale?

Advanced thanks to all.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

30% off the three for 199 deal is the best I've seen during friends and family which may occur randomly, not like the after Christmas and Father's day sales.


----------



## Peachey Carnehan

I just purchased my first pair of expensive (over $200 by my personal definition) shoes: Alden shell cordovan cap toe bluchers in dark burgundy. Somehow I was able to justify spending the money on the shoes, but not on the matching belt offered by Alden. Can anyone recommend a decent affordable belt in a very dark burgundy? Most belts I've found have been too brown or too light of a burgundy.

Thanks.

-PC


----------



## Charles the Hammer

Question: For jackets, is the shoulder fit more important than chest fit? I'm starting to think jackets would be best sized by their shoulder measurements, eg, 18" across seams for an 18R or an 18L, etc.



crohnsappleadams said:


> I have a few three-piece suits, but I've never owned braces, so naturally I have to re-adjust my pants on a regular basis to avoid belly bulge. Is there anything inherently wrong with cheap braces? Is there a certain type and/or brand I should be looking to buy?


Avoid braces with elastic bands and metal clips. The leather quality of the end pieces is variable.


----------



## Jovan

Has anyone used SportsDry inserts by Allen Edmonds? If so, are they worth it?



I'm seriously considering a pair for my Top-Siders, especially since they are only $9.95 with free shipping.


----------



## jrrcsava

A few questions: 

Are dress shirts only to be worn with dress slacks or can you wear them with jeans and chinos too? 

Can you wear a bowtie with a sport shirt or only dress shirts?


----------



## Peachey Carnehan

jrrcsava said:


> A few questions:
> 
> Are dress shirts only to be worn with dress slacks or can you wear them with jeans and chinos too?
> 
> Can you wear a bowtie with a sport shirt or only dress shirts?


My opinion is that certain dress shirts look good with jeans and chinos, provided the jeans are dark jeans in a classic fit with no holes and sequins. Dress shirts can work very well with chinos too. But if you pair a light blue dress shirt with a khaki chino you'll look like a Silicon Valley lower level businessman.

I consider bowties to be advanced neckwear. I think they only work with a dress shirt. And spend twice as long looking as yourself in the mirror as you would with a four in hand. Its a fine line between dapper and clownish.


----------



## Jovan

jrrcsava said:


> A few questions:
> 
> Are dress shirts only to be worn with dress slacks or can you wear them with jeans and chinos too?
> 
> Can you wear a bowtie with a sport shirt or only dress shirts?


 1. Depends on what you mean. Button down collars? Don't wear anything too spread or fancy with jeans or chinos.

2. I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## jrrcsava

https://www.macys.com/catalog/product/index.ognc?ID=350947&PartnerID=EMAIL2&BannerID=264

Can this shoe be dressed down or is it simply a dress shoe only to be worn with dress slacks?


----------



## jrrcsava

to add to the previous post: It is much more narrow and glossy than it appears online, however, it reminds me of this shoe

https://www.colehaan.com/colehaan/catalog/product.jsp?catId=100&productId=6008&productGroup=6011

which cole haan has listed as a casual shoe.

If looking for something that can go with premium denim jeans/khakis etc with a sport coat/blazer. wanna know if the johnson and murphy shoe above fits the bill.


----------



## Saltydog

IMHO for the purposes you cite, I would prefer the Cole Hann. Having said that, a step up to the Alden LHS would be the ideal.


----------



## chiamdream

All else equal, is a double-breasted jacket more or less formal than its single-breasted equivalent? This seems like something I should know, but somehow I just don't. The extra buttons and larger lapels make a DB seem more formal than a SB, but part of me thinks that the inherent flamboyance of a DB makes it more casual.


----------



## AlanC

I would have to give the nod to double breasted, although these days it will stand out more. I really like db stuff.


----------



## M. Morgan

Does anyone know of DC opticians with AA 406s in stock? My glasses have taken a beating recently and it's time to get a new pair.

Thanks.


----------



## MidWestTrad

I picked up one at JAB last year that I think might fit the color you are looking for. Price was pretty reasonable.



Peachey Carnehan said:


> I just purchased my first pair of expensive (over $200 by my personal definition) shoes: Alden shell cordovan cap toe bluchers in dark burgundy. Somehow I was able to justify spending the money on the shoes, but not on the matching belt offered by Alden. Can anyone recommend a decent affordable belt in a very dark burgundy? Most belts I've found have been too brown or too light of a burgundy.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -PC


----------



## Cardinals5

A guy over at SF posted pics of this shirt at my request. Avoid the strange patches and added trim (someone's DIY job), but the underlying shirt is pretty fascinating. It's clearly a PRL pink ocbd with a flap pocket, but also a 6-button terminating placket. Anyone seen such a shirt from PRL before? I'm sure Jamgood might know, but he doesn't seem to check in too often.


----------



## stroke5

Are red brick soles on shoes season specific (e.g. would be inappropriate to wear after a certain time of year)?


----------



## C. Sharp

You can wear tan bucks with red soles in to the fall.



stroke5 said:


> Are red brick soles on shoes season specific (e.g. would be inappropriate to wear after a certain time of year)?


----------



## erbs

I would consider shoes with red brick soles "three season." I wouldn't wear them past mid-November.


----------



## Valkyrie

> It's clearly a PRL pink ocbd with a flap pocket, but also a 6-button terminating placket.


Along time ago, maybe 20 years ago, I had a pullover PRL chambray shirt of similar design (longer than usual placket) although it didn't have a button down collar, it was a forward point. I'd never seen anything like it before or since. I had it for probably 10 years and wore it out.

Currently, I have an eBay'd cotton PRL plaid sport shirt, with two flapped pockets, labelled a "Woodsmen Workshirt," that is coat style (opening all the way), but the placket on the shirt comes to a point and stops about the waistline. Never could figure out exactly what was up with all that, but it is a good shirt for fall and winter. I like it and I'm sure I'll wear it out. It has no logo on it that I've seen. Never seen another like it either.


----------



## hookem12387

Bean boots or Bean mocs? I have neither, and I have a $55 LL Bean gift credit right now. Leep in mind that "cold" in Austin is 42 (frigid is anything below 32).


----------



## Beefeater

hookem12387 said:


> Bean boots or Bean mocs? I have neither, and I have a $55 LL Bean gift credit right now. Leep in mind that "cold" in Austin is 42 (frigid is anything below 32).


I would go with the mocs unless you really have your heart set on the boots. I have a pair of the boots with thinsulate, live in Dallas (previously in Austin), and they only see about 5-10 wears a year. Last year may have set the record as we also had record snowfall here as well, albeit modest by northern standards. I was grateful to have them then. My mocs, on the other hand, are in rotation year round.


----------



## hookem12387

Beefeater said:


> I would go with the mocs unless you really have your heart set on the boots. I have a pair of the boots with thinsulate, live in Dallas (previously in Austin), and they only see about 5-10 wears a year. Last year may have set the record as we also had record snowfall here as well, albeit modest by northern standards. I was grateful to have them then. My mocs, on the other hand, are in rotation year round.


I had that idea. As much as I love the look of the boots, it likely just makes a ton more sense to get the mocs. I may grab boots later down the road. I happened to be in Southlake (gf's parents) during one of those larger snow days (2 days maybe?) and it was really fantastic!


----------



## hsc89

*Another Possibility?*



hookem12387 said:


> Bean boots or Bean mocs? I have neither, and I have a $55 LL Bean gift credit right now. Leep in mind that "cold" in Austin is 42 (frigid is anything below 32).


You might also want to consider the "gumshoe" version as well. I have had all three at one time or another and found that I wore (and currently wear) the gumshoe more than the others. The mocs are great, but unless you get the fit just right, they can be a bit uncomfortable at times - particularly when worn without socks, and they are sometimes not quite high enough to keep your feet dry. The boots cannot be beat in terms of design/utility/value, however, you may find them taking a bit too much effort to wear with chinos and a button-down (LLBean - if you're listening - please bring back the lounger boot!!). The gumshoe, for me at least, strikes a nice balance between the two.


----------



## hobscrk777

I'm graduating from college this December and I'm looking for gift ideas. I've already asked my parents for a classic, white-faced, leather-strap dress watch, but I'd like to buy myself something as well. I will be going to graduate school, so at this time I don't know exactly where I'll be geographically or career-wise in a few years. However, I will almost definitely be in engineering, so I don't expect to need a closet full of suits. Nonetheless, I'm considering a nice, quality Brooks suit since the only suit I own is several years old and was purchased before I cared or even knew about quality, classic men's clothing. However, I'm also considering a really nice pair of shoes - say, the AE Leeds. They're currently marked down to $450 on the AE website for just a few more days. If I bought them now, I'd just put them aside for a couple more months. What do you think?


----------



## MKC

Quick question for you J. Press aficionados: When did the J. Press Washington store open? Many thanks for your help.


----------



## C. Sharp

December 1988



MKC said:


> Quick question for you J. Press aficionados: When did the J. Press Washington store open? Many thanks for your help.


----------



## tlocke

Are Christmas-themed ties Trad? Any suggestions on where to find an outstanding Christmas tie?


----------



## Repp Stripe

I like my Chipp Xmas tie.

It's an emblematic with elves holding presents. Among them is one Santa, on the toilet, reading a newspaper.

Get a hold of Paul Winston. He's still got stock of his old Chipp Xmas ties (there are other irreverent designs). The Chipp 2 site gives the number 212 687 0850.


----------



## C. Sharp

Paul should also have the mooning Santa and Santa peeing down the chimney.



Repp Stripe said:


> I like my Chipp Xmas tie.
> 
> It's an emblematic with elves holding presents. Among them is one Santa, on the toilet, reading a newspaper.
> 
> Get a hold of Paul Winston. He's still got stock of his old Chipp Xmas ties (there are other irreverent designs). The Chipp 2 site gives the number 212 687 0850.


----------



## tlocke

thanks, will do. sounds perfect.


----------



## catside

Question: What is the deal with 2/3 sack that many in the forum seem to like? I see them a lot in thrift stores and can't get the hang of it.


----------



## hookem12387

catside said:


> Question: What is the deal with 2/3 sack that many in the forum seem to like? I see them a lot in thrift stores and can't get the hang of it.


It's just the preferred aesthetic of many on this forum, no different than someone being really fond of a British cut jacket


----------



## zblaesi

This question may seem obvious, but does sizing vary at all from Lands End and Lands End Canvas, specifically their shirts? I was thinking about buying a couple shirts, but I'm not sure what size I'll need since I've only bought from Lands End. Are they equivalent in size?


----------



## hookem12387

zblaesi said:


> This question may seem obvious, but does sizing vary at all from Lands End and Lands End Canvas, specifically their shirts? I was thinking about buying a couple shirts, but I'm not sure what size I'll need since I've only bought from Lands End. Are they equivalent in size?


 You can get exact sizes from their customer service, but the Canvas is much smaller. Smaller shoulders, smaller chest, everything. Also, the Canvas shirts are a bit too short to stay tucked in.


----------



## zblaesi

hookem12387 said:


> You can get exact sizes from their customer service, but the Canvas is much smaller. Smaller shoulders, smaller chest, everything. Also, the Canvas shirts are a bit too short to stay tucked in.


That's what I was suspicious of.

While I'm here, I recently picked up . It's really comfortable, but I didn't really think through what I'll wear it with. Seems too thick to be tucked in, so I'm wondering if it's supposed to be worn with layers (a henley maybe?) untucked. Ideas?


----------



## Jovan

Bad cop out.  Men have been tucking in flannel/Viyella/brushed twill shirts for a long, long time.


----------



## zblaesi

Jovan said:


> Men have been tucking in flannel/Viyella/brushed twill shirts for a long, long time.


I'm just not used to wearing a shirt this thick.


----------



## dionattilio

*Longwing sizing*

Does anybody own a pair of AE Manceil's and a pair of V cleat Florsheim Imperial Longwings?

How do they compare sizing wise?


----------



## tlocke

Question: Is the Alden LHS unlined loafer available anywhere in cigar, ravello or whiskey cordovan shades? I know that Brooks Brothers recently had whiskey LHS at the Madison Avenue store, but only in D widths.


----------



## hookem12387

Can someone compare the Lands End Trim fit shirts to Brooks Slim fit? Also, how large are the sleeves (weird question, maybe)? While not looking for a skin tight shirt, I do hate billowy arms on shirts. Gracias, as always.


----------



## geologic

hookem12387 said:


> Can someone compare the Lands End Trim fit shirts to Brooks Slim fit? Also, how large are the sleeves (weird question, maybe)? While not looking for a skin tight shirt, I do hate billowy arms on shirts. Gracias, as always.


I can't compare to the Brooks slim fit, as I haven't tried it, but I'll try to give you my insights about Lands End "tailored fit," as it's virtually all I wear. Unfortunately, Lands End changed their tailored fit about a year ago, and the fit has been a lot less consistent from model to model (I also don't like the changes they've _intentionally_ made: giving it more of an athletic fit than a trim fit -- broadening the shoulders, etc.). That said, since the change, I have bought tailored fit Hyde Parks and no-iron pinpoints and been fairly satisfied with those. On the other hand, the fit of the paintbrush shirts in particular and anything with a varsity collar has been inconsistent, including some billowy upper arms and torsos, and some that fit great.


----------



## hookem12387

Darn, the paintbrush shirts are what I was most interested in. Harumph. Thanks


----------



## C. Sharp

I never gave this a thought but is the hook and toggle arrangement different for womens duffle coats? They look opposite of the mens coats.


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Yep, don't be fooled - women's toggles are on the opposite side. I almost bought a duffle coat once for the Thrift Exchange and then suddenly realized the toggles were on the "wrong" side - it was obviously a women's coat in the men's outerwear section.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
or are the British made Duffel's like the British made G9's, with the right/left orientation of the closure mechanism(s) a reversal of that found on "made in the USA" coats/jackets? :icon_scratch:


----------



## catside

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> or are the British made Duffel's like the British made G9's, with the right/left orientation of the closure mechanism(s) a reversal of that found on "made in the USA" coats/jackets? :icon_scratch:


I think this was a joke but you made me check it! My Tibbett has bone toggles on the right side. My wife's French Connection has them on the left.


----------



## hookem12387

Silly question, but how is one to properly lace bean mocs such that you can tighten them?


----------



## eagle2250

catside said:


> I think this was a joke but you made me check it! My Tibbett has bone toggles on the right side. My wife's French Connection has them on the left.


No...my earlier comment was not intended as a joke. I have a three British made G9 jackets and the zipper slide is on the left front panel (as you are wearing it), not on the right, as it is with my made in the USA jackets. I was just trying to be helpful!


----------



## Charles Saturn

Gunboats? Slang for what type shoes?


----------



## hookem12387

Charles Saturn said:


> Gunboats? Slang for what type shoes?


Longwings!


----------



## Bermuda

Is a hopsack blazer the same as a "sack" blazer that is so often talked about on here?


----------



## Ripley

Hopsack is a material; it's loosely woven and a bit rough looking:










Sack is a style of jacket; dartless, usually naturally shouldered, three rolled to two button, and center vented.









Cardinals5's great Hilton tweed sack from A Trad "What Are Wearing" today (most of the jackets worn by forumites in that thread are sacks).

Brooks sold a sack made of hopsack for years (or at least I assume for years by how many show up on eBay) under the original 346 line. I had one before I shrunk out of it, a classic. Hilton made a hopsack sack too.


----------



## Bermuda

thanks for the reply. I currently own a brand new Stafford tan hopsack blazer with gold crested buttons


----------



## MrZipper

NOS stands for?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
NOS---New Old Stock.


----------



## hookem12387

Suggestions for field coat-warmth coat that's not a field coat? I've had my eye on Barbour Liddesdales for awhile, and may end up with that, but I'd welcome other suggestions, too. Thanks all.


----------



## coachz1062

I need a quick answer! What is the best briefcase I can get for around $500?


----------



## hookem12387

coachz1062 said:


> I need a quick answer! What is the best briefcase I can get for around $500?


How formal? I know people LOVE Filson, so long as you're not taking it to court (since they're canvas in large part)


----------



## Trip English

hookem12387 said:


> Suggestions for field coat-warmth coat that's not a field coat? I've had my eye on Barbour Liddesdales for awhile, and may end up with that, but I'd welcome other suggestions, too. Thanks all.


Go with your gut. The Liddesdale is a terrific light-weight jacket.


----------



## coachz1062

I am a corporate lawyer. I will not be going to court, yet I'm not sure if canvas will fit the bill. I will check them out, though. Thanks!


----------



## coachz1062

Any thoughts on J.W. Hulme?


----------



## hookem12387

Trip English said:


> Go with your gut. The Liddesdale is a terrific light-weight jacket.


Good to hear. I've just been waiting for the right (navy, large, inexpensive) one to pop up on ebay. Thanks.

Coachz, sorry I'm not really familiar with briefcases/bags outside of Filson (and that only through reputation). I can, however, offer the summer services of an eager, young 2L currently enjoying his business associations class:icon_smile_big:


----------



## Trip English

Good call on the navy. That's my only regret with mine. I got the olive.


----------



## hookem12387

coachz1062 said:


> Any thoughts on J.W. Hulme?


 Just saw this on prepidemic: https://www.prepidemic.com/archives...repidemic+Magazine)&utm_content=Google+Reader


----------



## harvey_birdman

I have never felt comfortable wearing a pocket square. I carry my wallet in my left breast coat pocket, so that area has always felt too "puffed" up with the combination of square and wallet. I have decided to stop with the pocket square.

I am considering wearing a boutonniere instead. Am I insane?


----------



## Jovan

Yes, you are.

Wear your wallet on the right instead. Problem solved.


----------



## enginerd917

Alden for BB? Worth purchasing?


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ It depends on price, but they are shell lhs with the original soles so anything sub-$150 is a pretty good deal. It's not unusual to see shell lhs go for more than $200 on occasion, but at that price it's probably better to wait for the BB after Christmas sale when they can be had new for around $400.


----------



## hookem12387

enginerd917 said:


> Alden for BB? Worth purchasing?


Shoes aren't my niche, but they look an awful lot like lhs to me, which would be s 1000% yes. Particularly if in 10.5d and a situation in which you want to pass them on to me on the cheap


----------



## mjo_1

How far can a trouser waist be taken in before there are problems and/or they look strange? I'm watching some flannels on ebay that started out as a 36, and have been taken in to a 35. Think I could take them down to 34 ish without trouble or is this a bad idea?

Best,

Michael


----------



## hookem12387

I've read 2" before, but have no experience there (man, that's my answer a lot on this thread, ha)


----------



## hookem12387

Cheapest source for filson bags?


----------



## tradfan207

Hey Now! I am new here and trying to get together my trad staples, particularly with shoes. What are the trad shoes that I should be thinking about getting (brands, style, colors)? Thanks!


----------



## Cardinals5

hookem12387 said:


> Cheapest source for filson bags?


Got mine from Crane's Country Store. They have an affiliate thread over on SF that'll get you either 10 or 15% off - you'll have to read through some of the thread to find the current code, but there is always one that works. (https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=68965&highlight=Cranes)


----------



## Cardinals5

tradfan207 said:


> Hey Now! I am new here and trying to get together my trad staples, particularly with shoes. What are the trad shoes that I should be thinking about getting (brands, style, colors)? Thanks!


Completely depends upon your typical wardrobe. Here's a good start for someone who wears suits or sport coats fairly often - it's a decent mix of business and casual options.

Alden for Brooks Brothers calf or shell cordovan penny loafers
Allen Edmonds Park Avenue black calf captoes
Allen Edmonds MacNeil/Florsheim Imperial tan or brown pebble-grain longwings
Alden or Allen Edmonds burgundy wingtip
Alden/Allen Edmonds plain toe blucher
Bean blucher moc or similar for casual situations


----------



## tradfan207

Cardinals5 said:


> Completely depends upon your typical wardrobe. Here's a good start for someone who wears suits or sport coats fairly often - it's a decent mix of business and casual options.
> 
> Alden for Brooks Brothers calf or shell cordovan penny loafers
> Allen Edmonds Park Avenue black calf captoes
> Allen Edmonds MacNeil/Florsheim Imperial tan or brown pebble-grain longwings
> Alden or Allen Edmonds burgundy wingtip
> Alden/Allen Edmonds plain toe blucher
> Bean blucher moc or similar for casual situations


I am officially on the search for these!


----------



## AlanC

Cardinals5 said:


> Got mine from Crane's Country Store. They have an affiliate thread over on SF that'll get you either 10 or 15% off - you'll have to read through some of the thread to find the current code, but there is always one that works. (https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=68965&highlight=Cranes)


+1 on Crane's.


----------



## blairrob

mjo_1 said:


> How far can a trouser waist be taken in before there are problems and/or they look strange? I'm watching some flannels on ebay that started out as a 36, and have been taken in to a 35. Think I could take them down to 34 ish without trouble or is this a bad idea?
> 
> Best,
> 
> Michael


Michael, 2 inches is pretty much the limit and the pant would need to be tailored as opposed to just have the waist taken in so factor in the added cost for that. I lost 45 pounds a year ago and my tailor could fit pants up to 2 inches larger than my new size.


----------



## hookem12387

Cardinals5 said:


> Got mine from Crane's Country Store. They have an affiliate thread over on SF that'll get you either 10 or 15% off - you'll have to read through some of the thread to find the current code, but there is always one that works. (https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=68965&highlight=Cranes)


 Thanks, Cards


----------



## geologic

*Allen Edmonds - recrafting and topys?*

I just bought a pair of the brown Allen Edmonds Leeds PTB's from Lands' End. I walk about a mile to work in all weather, so I am thinking about getting a cobbler to put topys or vibrams on the soles. Eventually (in a long time, I hope), I expect to want Allen Edmonds to recraft these shoes, but their website has a generic "work done by an outside cobbler may prevent us from recrafting your shoes" disclaimer.

My question is: have any Allen Edmonds owners run into problems getting their shoes recrafted by Allen Edmonds after putting on topys?

Any other advice pro or con?

Thanks.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Not Topy's but, I did have them refuse to re craft a pair of shoes on which I had a local cobbler add light weight vibram soles, on top of the original leather sole. The vibram soles were originally glued but, when on started to peel back at the toe, they had been stitched in place around the toes of the shoes. Not sure but, I think the stitching may have been the problem. Sorry for the bad news!


----------



## geologic

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Not sure but, I think the stitching may have been the problem. Sorry for the bad news!


Thanks, eagle2250. I guess I'll either forgo the sole guards or live a little dangerously and make sure my cobbler only uses glue.


----------



## Jovan

geologic said:


> I just bought a pair of the brown Allen Edmonds Leeds PTB's from Lands' End. I walk about a mile to work in all weather, so I am thinking about getting a cobbler to put topys or vibrams on the soles. Eventually (in a long time, I hope), I expect to want Allen Edmonds to recraft these shoes, but their website has a generic "work done by an outside cobbler may prevent us from recrafting your shoes" disclaimer.
> 
> My question is: have any Allen Edmonds owners run into problems getting their shoes recrafted by Allen Edmonds after putting on topys?
> 
> Any other advice pro or con?
> 
> Thanks.


 Get a pair of Totes overshoes for bad weather.


----------



## enginerd917

Is this a hopsack blazer? If not, what fabric is this?! Thanks in advance

Brooks Brothers Boys Prep Blazer


----------



## Cardinals5

The blazer is a Super110 worsted wool.


----------



## oldschoolprep

*Is Schuman and Sullvian Hatmakers of New Haven Ct. Still In Business?*

Does anyone know if Schuman and Sullivan Hatmakers of New Haven CT is still in business. I acquired two really nifty fitted Made in USA baseball caps with univeristy logos many years back. Purchased one at Eljos in Charlottesville and the other at the late Woodhouse Lynch in Columbus, Ohio.

Several Google searches yielded no helpful information.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Old School Prep.


----------



## closerlook

I have a number of odd tweed and other woolen waist coats. 
Herringbone, glenn, tartan, etc.

Can a tweed waist coat be paired with a suit? If not, how I do negotiate wearing them with my tweed sportcoats when the patterns don't match.

thanks


----------



## hookem12387

How do you work a tie in to your wardrobe if you rarely wear jackets?


----------



## MrZipper

hookem12387 said:


> How do you work a tie in to your wardrobe if you rarely wear jackets?


Being somewhat in that same boat, my quick and easy answer is sweaters. Maybe not ideal (and certainly not during warm weather), but it's something at least.


----------



## The Rambler

hookem12387 said:


> How do you work a tie in to your wardrobe if you rarely wear jackets?


pick your spots.


----------



## Jovan

closerlook said:


> I have a number of odd tweed and other woolen waist coats.
> Herringbone, glenn, tartan, etc.
> 
> Can a tweed waist coat be paired with a suit? If not, how I do negotiate wearing them with my tweed sportcoats when the patterns don't match.
> 
> thanks


 If you have a sporty looking suit or sportcoat, it will work fine in my opinion. However, it would be incongruous to pair those with a solid navy or grey worsted. Brown, perhaps.


----------



## dorji

Regarding a non-darted jacket (of which I may buy my first soon) would you take in the waist at all??? Or are they meant to be left un-tailored? Is that the point of no darts?


----------



## closerlook

dorji said:


> Regarding a non-darted jacket (of which I may buy my first soon) would you take in the waist at all??? Or are they meant to be left un-tailored? Is that the point of no darts?


its called a sack for a good reason.


----------



## closerlook

dorji said:


> Regarding a non-darted jacket (of which I may buy my first soon) would you take in the waist at all??? Or are they meant to be left un-tailored? Is that the point of no darts?


keep it undarted.
; )


----------



## eagle2250

^^
...Although a sack design can be taken in at the waist a bit, by nipping in the side seams.


----------



## dorji

closerlook said:


> keep it undarted.
> ; )


I would not presume to add darts (could that even be done?), the clarified question is regarding (minimal)waist suppresion done at the side seams. Is that a big no-no?


----------



## dorji

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> ...taken in at the waist a bit, by nipping in the side seams.


Exactly! So this doesn't defeat the point of an un-darted jacket if done tastefully(minimally)?


----------



## snakeroot

dorji said:


> Exactly! So this doesn't defeat the point of an un-darted jacket if done tastefully(minimally)?


I shouldn't think so. I have a vintage JPress tweed from the Golden Age that has more waist suppression than anything I own save an Isaia or two.

Regards,


----------



## sporto55

Is there a quick way to measure the waist size of pants without using a measuring tape. I ahve been told that if your forearm can fit in the waist then it should fit. Is this correct or is the best way to try them on.


----------



## Cardinals5

sporto55 said:


> Is there a quick way to measure the waist size of pants without using a measuring tape. I ahve been told that if your forearm can fit in the waist then it should fit. Is this correct or is the best way to try them on.


If you're in a thrift store you can hold them up against a pair of pants that lists a waist measurement. For example, most dress pants don't have sizes listed so I'll just grab a pair of cheap chinos with a tagged size and then put the two waists together to compare.


----------



## MrZipper

Cardinals5 said:


> If you're in a thrift store you can hold them up against a pair of pants that lists a waist measurement. For example, most dress pants don't have sizes listed so I'll just grab a pair of cheap chinos with a tagged size and then put the two waists together to compare.


But remember to beware of vanity sizing!

Via Esquire.com


----------



## Cardinals5

Yeah, I should have said don't grab any of the cheap "name-brand" chinos since most are vanity sized - I usually grab something older (Duck Head, etc.) or something unknown.


----------



## Dr. D

A trick for sizing pants in a store when you don't want to try them on is to use your belt. If you know that a certain notch is exactly your size, simply remove your belt and try it through the pants in question and see if the waist is the same size.

-Jerry


----------



## hookem12387

Hrm, thought I'd posted this before in reference to the suppresion in a sack suit (and if I have, I'm sorry, I've perhaps been drinking). I believe Cards has posted a few pictures of his somewhat suppressed sacks. It's a fantastic look, IMO, the best of any suit look. It's not overly suppressed, a la the Brit look I also like.


----------



## dorji

Thank you for the responses.


----------



## Jovan

tlawson2 said:


> Anybody know why one will dress or will want to dress like this?
> https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=200536497922


 Don't know, because it will not load.


----------



## hookem12387

What's your winter alternative to top siders? I tend to just wear loafers more, but it helps that our "winter" is averaging 65-70 degrees


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

hookem12387 said:


> What's your winter alternative to top siders? I tend to just wear loafers more, but it helps that our "winter" is averaging 65-70 degrees


I've struggled with finding one--a casual shoe for winter, that can be worn with khakis and cords-for a while now.

People might say bean blutchers, but they're not the most substantial shoe.

Maybe a casual chukka with a rubber sole?


----------



## Trip English

I think the camp moc is the most direct alternative to the topsider, but cold weather seems to preclude a "take on all comers" solution to casual footwear. For a dry chilly day the camp moc may be fine. A wet day may require a low-cut bean boot (wet feet in winter are different than wet feet in summer). A snowy day may require a wellington boot or a lined 8-10" bean boot. And since camp mocs seem to have a harder time being paired with a blazer & khakies, a dirty buck or a chukka may be in order. 

Of course no one can be too upset about the need to buy more shoes.


----------



## Saltydog

^^^
Hard to argue with that logic Trip. Well put. To a degree I think geography may play a factor.


----------



## hookem12387

I can get away with topsiders, weather wise, until about January. However, I feel like thy're just a little out of place. I have thought about picking up suede or even tweed topsiders for the occassion, though I think they may be frowned upon 'round these parts. I think suede tassels would be great, as well, though not as casual.


----------



## Trip English

I have a pair of deep green suede topsiders with a red brick sole and have worn them in a few WAYWT posts and have not yet had a brick thrown through my window.


----------



## hookem12387

Trip English said:


> I have a pair of deep green suede topsiders with a red brick sole and have worn them in a few WAYWT posts and have not yet had a brick thrown through my window.


 I've seen them. I'm a fan. Good to know I wouldn't have to watch for projectiles.


----------



## dukekook

I just bought these in Loden to replace the boat shoes during the winter:


They are lousy in wet conditions, but work very well without socks, and with thick socks. In New England, one has to be prepared for the quick weather transition.


----------



## Jovan

Suede doesn't seem optimal for any adverse weather!


----------



## Charles Saturn

I wish I could I could find something like these, or Throrogood's, except without the enormous white sole, or low cut, like the one's I wore in High School.


----------



## palmettoking

I got these:
I really like them so far. I've had them a month and a half or so, and the leather is already developing a nice patina. I wear them with just about anything, and I guess you could wear them without socks and with shorts.


----------



## Charles Saturn

For some reason those shoes just don't work me. too narrow or something. I tried the signature mock's and I felt like I was wearing elves' shoes. The Thorogood's on the other hand, are like wearing something designed for Paul Bunyan. The Alden boots are nice, but that's a whole nother story.


----------



## Max875

I recently purchased Gokey Sauvage Oxfords & Russell Seneca Mocs for the Fall/Winter. Both pairs are pricey, but seem to be built to last a lifetime.


----------



## MrZipper

Jovan said:


> Don't know, because it will not load.


Link that works: .

But to answer the OP's question: no, no I do not.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

MrZipper said:


> Link that works: .
> 
> But to answer the OP's question: no, no I do not.


Sod Buster by day, Clergyman at night??


----------



## Charles Saturn

WouldaShoulda said:


> Sod Buster by day, Clergyman at night??


American Gothic for Halloween? The pocket square is a nice touch though.


----------



## joe98

I Love my duck boots, although it is a little colder here than in texas. They work great for my casual going to class looks, if I need to look a little better I wear some longwings.


----------



## hookem12387

Jovan said:


> Suede doesn't seem optimal for any adverse weather!


 That's true, but i have bean mocs if it rains, which it doesn't seem to anymore, anyhow. It also appears that Austin is simply not getting cold this winter. Should be 70's tomorrow, again.


----------



## Jovan

I am seriously considering those Signature Ranger or Blucher Mocs right now. Might be just the thing paired with Wigwam 625 socks.



MrZipper said:


> Link that works: .
> 
> But to answer the OP's question: no, no I do not.


 I don't either. Peaching or prewashing chinos are one thing but bleach staining on purpose is just plain asinine. It's like you _want_ people to think you're careless with your clothes.


----------



## hookem12387

I have the signature mocs, Jovan, they're great. Just not as easy to slip on/off as top siders since they're higher (obviously, I suppose).


----------



## phyrpowr

Max875 said:


> I recently purchased Gokey Sauvage Oxfords & Russell Seneca Mocs for the Fall/Winter. Both pairs are pricey, but seem to be built to last a lifetime.


Max, I paid the extra $50 for custom on my Gokey's, well worth it for my odd sized skinny feet. These are definitely longterm shoes, and surprisingly comfortable out of the box for such a substantial shoe.


----------



## Max875

The custom Gokeys also work well for people with high arches. The factory hand cuts custom quarters, so the shoes lace up better.


----------



## Trenditional

Which Bass model is the most "classic/trad" Penny Loafer? I think I'm leaning towards the Logan, but they're are several different models.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
My first choice, at this point, would be the Gilman. The Logan would be my second choice!


----------



## Trenditional

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> My first choice, at this point, would be the Gilman. The Logan would be my second choice!


I like the Gilman, but I want a pair in burgundy. Gilmans only seem to come in brown. This is why I'm leaning towards the Logan. Its been a while since I bought a pair of Bass loafers. Do they fit true to size?


----------



## Trip English

They do fit true to size. 

They also fit true to price.


----------



## Benson

Can anyone speak to the fit of the heavy-duty cavalry twills at O'Connell's? They tell me that all of their trousers are cut the same, but I've found more than a little variation in the thighs and rise of their gabs and chinos. My problem is that they do not have my size and I am considering going up two sizes and having them taken in, which isn't something I would do, normally, but their I went up a size with their gabs and they are still a bit trim in the thigh.


----------



## palmettoking

Is this black or just a really dark navy? I've never heard of a black blazer, and the color looks similar to some of the other Brooks 3/2 blazers I've seen. Thanks


----------



## Trip English

It sure doesn't look black, let alone jet black. I can't say for certain, but the historical likelihood of it being black also seems pretty low. At the end of the day, though, it's eBay. If it turns out to be black then that's that.


----------



## dorji

Benson said:


> Can anyone speak to the fit of the heavy-duty cavalry twills at O'Connell's?


No.....but these work for me.

If you like M2 cut....and maybe they have your size...


----------



## Benson

Dorji,

The Bill's are nice, thanks for the suggestion. 
Benson


----------



## Wrenkin

*J.Press Knit Caps*

Does anyone know the English maker for the J.Press knit caps? I bought one when I lived in North America but the shipping to England is crazy. I thought it might be worth getting another, as the weather here has taken a turn for the worse, and there are few good options in London.


----------



## Odin

In the Trad Exchange I see the following measurements commonly used for sports coats. Can someone show me where to measure coats I know fit me so I can match up to the great stuff for sale?

Measurements: 


Chest: xx
Sleeve: xx
Length: xx
Shoulder: xx

For example, Chest - measure from the ____ to the ____. Sleeve - measure from the ___ to the ____...


----------



## hookem12387

Maybe someone can answer why I'm currently obsessed with formal slippers? I'm not sure from where it has originated.


----------



## Sir Cingle

Odin said:


> In the Trad Exchange I see the following measurements commonly used for sports coats. Can someone show me where to measure coats I know fit me so I can match up to the great stuff for sale?
> 
> Measurements:
> 
> Chest: xx
> Sleeve: xx
> Length: xx
> Shoulder: xx
> 
> For example, Chest - measure from the ____ to the ____. Sleeve - measure from the ___ to the ____...


Odin: Here's a link to Ask Andy's very useful instructions on the proper measurement of jackets. In my experience, measurements on the trad thrift exchange are quite accurate (unlike, say, most Ebay measurements). Follow the rules below and you should be just fine:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/Tutorials/AndrewHarrisEBayMeasurement.htm


----------



## eagle2250

hookem12387 said:


> Maybe someone can answer why I'm currently obsessed with formal slippers? I'm not sure from where it has originated.


Not meaning this as a smart a**ed answer but, does it really matter? The bottom line is that (for whatever reason) you enjoy them. Relax and allow yourself to fully enjoy this simple pleasure! :thumbs-up:


----------



## Odin

Thank you very much.



Sir Cingle said:


> Odin: Here's a link to Ask Andy's very useful instructions on the proper measurement of jackets. In my experience, measurements on the trad thrift exchange are quite accurate (unlike, say, most Ebay measurements). Follow the rules below and you should be just fine:
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/Tutorials/AndrewHarrisEBayMeasurement.htm


----------



## Bermuda

I saw a sweater that was 70% wool and 30% lambs wool.....what is the difference between wool and Lambswool????


----------



## The Rambler

The age of the donor-sheep? Lambswool is softer, sweaterwise.


----------



## Benson

Anyone know of an online source for horn buttons?


----------



## Benson

Nevermind, apologies.


----------



## hookem12387

I need opinions: suede penny loafers or calf? I have neither, would love a pair of suede but know the calf would get more use. Catch: I much prefer tassel loafers and will likely wear them more than the pennies anyway.


----------



## Trip English

Suede tassels strike me as one of the last shoes you'd add to the lineup. Unless an irresistible deal presents itself I like to prioritize from most to least use. Calf or, dare I suggest, shell tassels will be mvps. Now I could be wrong since you're in a very different climate than me!


----------



## hookem12387

Trip English said:


> Suede tassels strike me as one of the last shoes you'd add to the lineup. Unless an irresistible deal presents itself I like to prioritize from most to least use. Calf or, dare I suggest, shell tassels will be mvps. Now I could be wrong since you're in a very different climate than me!


 If anything, my climate would dictate against the suede. I think you're right as to adding suede last. I just like it so much, ha.


----------



## Charles Saturn

Does the BB corporate discount apply to in store alterations?


----------



## Orgetorix

Charles Saturn said:


> Does the BB corporate discount apply to in store alterations?


No. Alterations are never discounted.


----------



## hookem12387

Quick question someone can hopefully answer within the next 4hours, how do Polo Darlton loafers fit? Little big or true to size?


----------



## Orgetorix

hookem12387 said:


> Quick question someone can hopefully answer within the next 4hours, how do Polo Darlton loafers fit? Little big or true to size?


I haven't tried them, but IIRC past discussions have mainly said TTS with a somewhat wide heel.


----------



## Mazderati

Has Allen Edmonds ever produced a Park Avenue in shell cordovan?


----------



## Orgetorix

Mazderati said:


> Has Allen Edmonds ever produced a Park Avenue in shell cordovan?


Not as a regular production model, not that I've ever seen. Such a beast could be special ordered, though.


----------



## chilton

Navy duffel coat and charcoal suit?


----------



## Orgetorix

chilton said:


> Navy duffel coat and charcoal suit?


Definitely.


----------



## gman-17

chilton said:


> Navy duffel coat and charcoal suit?


All day long.


----------



## dwebber18

Quick Alden fit question. I'm thinking about a pair of Indy boots on the Turbulance last. My only other pair of Aldens are LHS on the Van last and its a size 12D and they fit well without socks and well with dress socks. Think I can do 12 in the Turbulance as well, but these are boots so I'll wear thicker than dress socks socks? I also tried on a pair of shoes on the Aberdeen last and 12 was too small for me. Thanks for the assist!


----------



## Benson

Another Alden fit question, though this one concerning the LHS in calf. Can anyone comment on how much the shoe tends to give in width? I sized up a half size because I have a high instep and a wide foot and the result is one shoe fits well enough and the other slips at the heel a bit. I am concerned that even with heel grips the shoe may stretch out too much. Has anyone had success with heel grips, particularly in an lhs? I should note the shoes are seconds, otherwise I would just get my normal size and hope the shoe gives enough over time.
All Best,
Benson


----------



## Jovan

That picture is seriously freaking me out.


----------



## dorji

Will cordovan LHS by BB be part of the after Christmas sale? When is the best time to make a cordovan purchase with BB?


----------



## dwebber18

It was last year, so check Christmas eve and onward for deals


----------



## mjo_1

It's possible for a tailor to shorten the sleeves of a dress shirt, right?


----------



## dorji

^^Sure!


----------



## chilton

On BB must-irons, does an increase in sleeve length correspond with an increase in placket length?


----------



## Orgetorix

chilton said:


> On BB must-irons, does an increase in sleeve length correspond with an increase in placket length?


I don't think so.


----------



## hsc89

dwebber18 said:


> Quick Alden fit question. I'm thinking about a pair of Indy boots on the Turbulance last. My only other pair of Aldens are LHS on the Van last and its a size 12D and they fit well without socks and well with dress socks. Think I can do 12 in the Turbulance as well, but these are boots so I'll wear thicker than dress socks socks? I also tried on a pair of shoes on the Aberdeen last and 12 was too small for me. Thanks for the assist!


My #8 LHS's and stock Indy's are both 12 1/2 B. I find the fit almost identical - with the Indy's maybe just a touch more snug in width but probably only because they haven't been worn nearly as much or, perhaps, because of the "cordo-being-roomier-than-calf" thing having to do with the stretching of the leather over the last at the factory. Nonetheless, if you plan on wearing considerably thicker socks with the Indy's you might consider going up a width or a 1/2 size in length.


----------



## jrrcsava

Question about dress shirt collars: 

I am partial to the button down collar because i feel they are more versatile as well as keep better. The pin point collars while fancier and seem to be more popular are harder to upkeep. My question is should I feel bad about my preference in dress shirt collars? If im not going to be anywhere uber fancy is the button down the way to go? Does anyone else prefer the button down over the pinpoint or am i a huge weirdo? Thanks!


----------



## hookem12387

jrrcsava said:


> Question about dress shirt collars:
> 
> I am partial to the button down collar because i feel they are more versatile as well as keep better. The pin point collars while fancier and seem to be more popular are harder to upkeep. My question is should I feel bad about my preference in dress shirt collars? If im not going to be anywhere uber fancy is the button down the way to go? Does anyone else prefer the button down over the pinpoint or am i a huge weirdo? Thanks!


 You'll find most around here greatly prefer the button down collar (likely in oxford cloth), over any other. So, you may be weird, but you're not alone


----------



## palmettoking

What's the next step up in dressiness as far as shoes go from penny loafers? I have an old made in the US pair that my dad gave me, and they're great for just about everything. But I'm looking to upgrade a bit. I only have one suit (a brown tweed that I thrifted for 2.50), and I don't really anticipate adding any more short of more thrifted ones. I'm just looking for something I can wear with chinos and wool flannels. Thanks


----------



## hookem12387

palmettoking said:


> What's the next step up in dressiness as far as shoes go from penny loafers? I have an old made in the US pair that my dad gave me, and they're great for just about everything. But I'm looking to upgrade a bit. I only have one suit (a brown tweed that I thrifted for 2.50), and I don't really anticipate adding any more short of more thrifted ones. I'm just looking for something I can wear with chinos and wool flannels. Thanks


One step up from penny loafers? Tassel loafers, perhaps? Also, I'd think gunboats (longwing bluchers) would look great with chinos or flannels.


----------



## Mr. Snerd

Any ideas on what to wear under a brownish/greenish fair isle crewneck? The exposed t-shirt is no longer working for me but I'm stumped on what color and/or pattern of collared shirt to wear. All I know is it must be button-down.


----------



## palmettoking

white ocbd, blue ocbd , a blue uni stripe ocbd, maybe a yellow or ecru ocbd. With the fair isle pattern on the sweater, I'd keep things pretty basic on the shirt side, as to not get too "busy".


----------



## Mr. Snerd

Thanks palmettoking. I was debating trying a tattersall, but I think I'll take your advice and try an ecru ocbd.


----------



## Jovan

jrrcsava said:


> Question about dress shirt collars:
> 
> I am partial to the button down collar because i feel they are more versatile as well as keep better. The pin point collars while fancier and seem to be more popular are harder to upkeep. My question is should I feel bad about my preference in dress shirt collars? If im not going to be anywhere uber fancy is the button down the way to go? Does anyone else prefer the button down over the pinpoint or am i a huge weirdo? Thanks!


 You're confusing two things here, fabric and collar. Pinpoint (also called "pinpoint oxford") is a fabric basically like oxford cloth, but woven tighter. It is thus dressier. The point collar is a basic collar shape that suits most people and is thus used in most shirts. Here is an example of both in the same shirt: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...olor=BLUE&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=

Secondly, I'd say the point collar is actually more versatile overall.


----------



## harvey_birdman

Is it a fair assumption that LL Bean mocs like these https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/19067?feat=506698-GN3 do not need shoe trees?


----------



## palmettoking

Nah, no shoe trees necessary for those. They're pretty much entirely rubber.


----------



## harvey_birdman

palmettoking said:


> Nah, no shoe trees necessary for those. They're pretty much entirely rubber.


Thank you sir, you have confirmed my thoughts.


----------



## jrrcsava

Jovan said:


> You're confusing two things here, fabric and collar. Pinpoint (also called "pinpoint oxford") is a fabric basically like oxford cloth, but woven tighter. It is thus dressier. The point collar is a basic collar shape that suits most people and is thus used in most shirts. Here is an example of both in the same shirt: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...olor=BLUE&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=
> 
> Secondly, I'd say the point collar is actually more versatile overall.


I was under the assumption that pinpoint could refer to the collar as well as the shirt. A pinpoint oxford being a dressier/ smoother weave of the shirt as well as the style of the collar. I was only refering to the collar type. Although, if i am wrong I apologize.


----------



## jrrcsava

On another note, what is the overall opinion of wearing a pocket square without a tie?

Nevermind. Found a thread on it and have my answer. thanks!


----------



## Trip English

There are a range of strong opinions on the appropriateness of wearing a jacket without a tie, a tie without a jacket, and any other possible permutation of partially disassembled dress. That being said, in the narrow confines of this question, I vote that it's fine as the pocket square is required by the jacket and is not, strictly speaking, linked to the tie. A jacket without a tie is a very common and well established look. A missing pocket square is always a tragedy.


----------



## jrrcsava

Trip English said:


> There are a range of strong opinions on the appropriateness of wearing a jacket without a tie, a tie without a jacket, and any other possible permutation of partially disassembled dress. That being said, in the narrow confines of this question, I vote that it's fine as the pocket square is required by the jacket and is not, strictly speaking, linked to the tie. A jacket without a tie is a very common and well established look. A missing pocket square is always a tragedy.


That is exactly what I determined. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Jovan

jrrcsava said:


> I was under the assumption that pinpoint could refer to the collar as well as the shirt. A pinpoint oxford being a dressier/ smoother weave of the shirt as well as the style of the collar. I was only refering to the collar type. Although, if i am wrong I apologize.


 No need to apologise, I was only trying to help.


----------



## harvey_birdman

Is there any way to make a tie like this work? I love the look of it but can't fathom how or when to wear it. Ideas?


----------



## Valkyrie

It's brave (read: foolhardy) for me to be giving suggestions, but I can see it going well with most things. It would look best (in my opinion) with a khaki poplin suit with either white, blue, or blue unistripe OCBD; it would look great with a tan corduroy or a brownish tweed sport jacket with khaki or tan trousers. A palette of earth tones suggest themselves. 

It would also probably look fine with a navy blazer and khakis.


----------



## Charles Saturn

What is a good source for an affordable white pocket square?


----------



## Sir Cingle

Charles Saturn said:


> What is a good source for an affordable white pocket square?


Kent Wang is a good source: https://www.kentwang.com/pocket-squares

J. Press also has a decent--and decently priced--white pocket square for sale: https://jpressonline.com/accessories_pocket_squares_detail.php?id=SCHIEF_WHT


----------



## Charles Saturn

Can a handkerchief fill in as a pocket square, or is it even one and the same? I.E. https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...lor=WHITE&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=


----------



## Mr. Snerd

Can someone help to educate me on bowties? Are they more or less formal than a standard necktie? I work in an environment where only executives and contractors wear neckties, and even the contractors ditch them after they have been around a couple of weeks. I want to step up my dress and I like ties, but I do not want to be ridiculed. My typical attire is: khakis, OCBDs, no jacket, basic brown oxfords.


----------



## The Rambler

Excepting formalwear, black tie, white tie, etc. bows are neither more nor less formal than long ties. Depends on the tie, depends how you wear it. They have the advantage of being less likely to get spilled on, caught in a drill press, etc. They can't be loosened at the neck as a long tie can, but they are very comfortable. With a bit of practice you can easily tie a relaxed-looking knot that suits your personality.

As far as being ridiculed goes, wear with confidence, and the snarks and chortles will soon subside :biggrin2:


----------



## palmettoking

Rambler beat me on the draw. :smile:


----------



## WindsorNot

Anyone use these fabric shavers on older garments/sweaters/other: https://www.amazon.com/Remington-RPFS-100-Fuzz-Fabric-Shaver/dp/B00103URIQ? Do they degrade the integrity of fabric or are they ok?


----------



## The Rambler

I think they're ok: what they remove is already degraded.


----------



## dorji

What are the forum's thoughts on those metal toe-tip units? Not sure of the proper name, installed on the sole of a leather soled shoe. Would that suck the L out of LHS????


----------



## Wrenkin

If you need them, you need them. I have wide feet so I tend to have to compensate by having longer lasts, and without some sort of toe guard I'd wear through the welt very quickly.


----------



## Jovan

Charles Saturn said:


> Can a handkerchief fill in as a pocket square, or is it even one and the same? I.E. https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...lor=WHITE&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=


 There's some debate on this. But if you want to do classic point and flat folds, "handkerchiefs" will do just fine. I'm pretty sure it's what most guys used back in the Mad Men era anyway.


----------



## mcarthur

Jovan said:


> There's some debate on this. But if you want to do classic point and flat folds, "handkerchiefs" will do just fine. I'm pretty sure it's what most guys used back in the Mad Men era anyway.


you are absolutely correct. also consider silk handerchief


----------



## Steve Smith

I found a tie with a tag logo which looks like a small, round awning. I have seen this before but I can't recall the name of the company. What is it?


----------



## Charles Saturn

Am I correct in thinking Land's End adds about an inch in vanity sizing?
In reference to their Legacy Chinos.


----------



## Jovan

My last pair seemed true to size. But maybe my _vanity_ is getting the best of me.


----------



## Trip English

I prefer to think of my vanity size as my actual size, but I agree with Jovan. They run very true to size.


----------



## jrrcsava

elaborating on some of the previous questions about pocket squares; what is the rule with material? For example would one wear a light weight pocket square with a seersucker jacket and heavy weight one with tweed? Does it matter? Can you switch em up? Also, what material is a plain white, versatile, pocket square usually made out of?


----------



## C. Sharp

Take a look is this the same symbol? https://www.customshop.com/shop/



Steve Smith said:


> I found a tie with a tag logo which looks like a small, round awning. I have seen this before but I can't recall the name of the company. What is it?


----------



## C. Sharp

I think you will find different opinions but I go with swiss linen for suits and often sumer jackets and something like ancient madder silk for tweed jackets.


jrrcsava said:


> elaborating on some of the previous questions about pocket squares; what is the rule with material? For example would one wear a light weight pocket square with a seersucker jacket and heavy weight one with tweed? Does it matter? Can you switch em up? Also, what material is a plain white, versatile, pocket square usually made out of?


----------



## Steve Smith

I think you found it. Thanks.



C. Sharp said:


> Take a look is this the same symbol? https://www.customshop.com/shop/


----------



## Cardinals5

Anyone own the AE Hamilton in shell? If so, can you give a short review


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Good combination: oatmeal ragg sweater and cinnamon widewale corduroys?

Bonus points: I thrifted a pair of midnight blue, borderline black, corduroys and they don't seem to look good with anything. The formality of such a dark color seems counter to their otherwise casual appearance. Any paired sweater suggestions or are they just a totally unsuitable color?


----------



## Valkyrie

> I thrifted a pair of midnight blue, borderline black, corduroys and they don't seem to look good with anything.


I wear mine with a blue BB OCBD and either a forest green crew neck shetland or a brighter tie and my black/grey herringbone Harris jacket. I think they look just fine then. I think it is a nice blend of color and texture. No one has ever walked up and said, 'gosh, you look awful today,' but one never knows about the future.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Valkyrie said:


> I wear mine with a blue BB OCBD and either a forest green crew neck shetland or a brighter tie and my black/grey herringbone Harris jacket. I think they look just fine then. I think it is a nice blend of color and texture. No one has ever walked up and said, 'gosh, you look awful today,' but one never knows about the future.


Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## MHF

Does 24" pit-to-pit seem like the right chest measurement in a single-breasted raincoat for someone who wears a 42R suit? (It's a Brooks coat tagged 40R.)

I know that trench/rain coats are supposed to run big, but this seems like quite a gap. On the other hand, I'm not sure exactly what the ideal fit would be, and sizing down to a 38R feels extreme.


----------



## The Rambler

best to forget the marked sizes, they're an indication only, and go with the one that fits the way you like. +6 to actual chest measure doesn't sound crazy big for a raincoat, but if you like it tighter, and the sleeves and coat length of the 38 are ok, why not go with that?


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Silly question: I have been wearing shetlands quite a bit to the office with flannel trousers, no jacket. All of the posts I recall mentioning shetlands refer to wearing cords with them. Are flannels and shetlands ok?


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Yes, do it all the time.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Cardinals5 said:


> ^^ Yes, do it all the time.


Ah, great. Thanks Cards. Now if I could only stop myself from buying any more of them...


----------



## nerdykarim

Does anyone have a 16" neck slim fit Brooks Brothers OCBD (made in USA from a fairly recent purchase)? I'd appreciate it if you could post or PM me the pit-to-pit measurement.


----------



## Jovan

DoghouseReilly: With those kind of things, I'd say common sense wins out. Flannels can be dressed up or down quite easily.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Jovan said:


> DoghouseReilly: With those kind of things, I'd say common sense wins out. Flannels can be dressed up or down quite easily.


You're right, Jovan. I suppose I am still trying to find my fashion confidence, to a certain extent.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

When is the best time (as far as price is concerned) to buy a pair of Alden for BB LHS?


----------



## dorji

nerdykarim said:


> Does anyone have a 16" neck slim fit Brooks Brothers OCBD (made in USA from a fairly recent purchase)? I'd appreciate it if you could post or PM me the pit-to-pit measurement.


22.25"


----------



## nerdykarim

^ Thanks, I really appreciate it.


----------



## dorji

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> When is the best time (as far as price is concerned) to buy a pair of Alden for BB LHS?


 Got mine after Christmas ffor $50 off cordovan + 15% after that. Ended up around $460 I think.


----------



## Orgetorix

The 25% off for corporate card holders usually applies to shell. Depending on the sales associate and whether he needs to meet his quota, you might even get the extra 15% for opening a Brooks Charge.


----------



## palmettoking

What color belt and shoes do you wear with flannels? I recently thrifted a charcoal pair for a buck, and am looking for a lighter color as well, as I am making the transition from chinos. However, I don't have any decent looking black shoes or belts. Is this what I need?


----------



## Patrick06790

^ Black is fine. I like dark brown better, and dark brown suede best of all.


----------



## wildcat121

I'm going to buy a classic leather-strap watch for everyday wear. Is black leather too formal--should I stick with brown? Also, thoughts on a black face vs a white face?


----------



## The Rambler

personal choice, for both; "formal" doesn't enter in to it, both look good.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

wildcat121 said:


> I'm going to buy a classic leather-strap watch for everyday wear. Is black leather too formal--should I stick with brown? Also, thoughts on a black face vs a white face?


The straps you can change.

A white faced watch is more versitile and easier to read.


----------



## hookem12387

About how much does it cost to fix a small tear on a blazer? There's a green Norman Hilton at a thrift near me that I'd be happy to pick up for someone, but I don't know if it's worth it with the pull/tear.


----------



## hookem12387

And another question: Are any of you aware of madras's tendency (or hopefully lack thereof) to hold memory lines when letting the sleeves out on a jacket?

Thanks


----------



## Patrick06790

^ I have had lousy luck having little dings fixed on sport coats. Tried it twice and wound up donating both. The alterations lady here is very good on a lot of things but not this.

I think madras cotton should be pretty forgiving for letting out sleeves, plus with all that going on who's gonna notice? Ironing on low heat with a clean towel should take care of it.


----------



## hookem12387

That's what I assumed. Thanks, Patrick.


----------



## Wisco

wildcat121 said:


> I'm going to buy a classic leather-strap watch for everyday wear. Is black leather too formal--should I stick with brown? Also, thoughts on a black face vs a white face?


Color can be an indicator of formality, but those rules are flexible given the fact that many men wear stainless steel bracelet watches for dress and play. If your are worried, I consider a thin alligator grain strap with a thin simple dial watch more formal than a fat leather strap on a complicated chronograph watch.


----------



## Beefeater

hookem12387 said:


> About how much does it cost to fix a small tear on a blazer? There's a green Norman Hilton at a thrift near me that I'd be happy to pick up for someone, but I don't know if it's worth it with the pull/tear.


You have to find a re-weaver to repair it correctly. Given that you are in Austin, you will need much luck. If you are ever in Dallas, look up Royal ReWeavers and they can usually get the job done, albeit, _slowly_.


----------



## hookem12387

Thanks, ya I think I'm not going to try it.

What are people's experiences letting out the sleeves on old (60's/70's) worsted jackets? These suits I picked up at the thrift are really telling me I should keep them...


----------



## hookem12387

Does anyone have experience with bean mocs in narrow sizes? My current ones are the right length, but I slip right out of them. I could reconcile this with socks, but I have no intention to wear socks with them.


----------



## The Rambler

Hookem, The problem may be that beans has started putting a stiff, wide heel counter in the heel, which keeps the shoe from cradling your foot, and causes heels too narrow for it to slip, and never seems to break in. The leather is also stiff. I was loyal to that shoe for decades, so was my dad, but ultimately gave up and went to the unlined model Quoddy OCs offers for $175 in a choice of Horween leathers. No heel counter, the old style rubber camp sole, feels great right out of the box. In this case, the extra bucks well worth it. It's basically the moc Beans used to offer.


----------



## nerdykarim

If anyone has done some Filson shopping recently, I'd appreciate a quick answer to my quick question 

I'd like to buy a 257 and I'm pretty price-sensitive. Where's the cheapest place to buy one? Should I just call Cranes and ask for the forum discount?


----------



## Jovan

Best way to get Bean Bluchers on the cheap or a good, not-too-pricey alternative if they are "not-what-they-used-to-be"?


----------



## Joe Beamish

hookem12387 said:


> Thanks, ya I think I'm not going to try it.
> 
> What are people's experiences letting out the sleeves on old (60's/70's) worsted jackets? These suits I picked up at the thrift are really telling me I should keep them...


I've had good luck the few times I've had to let out sleeves on vintage worsted jackets, and even poplin. Just not immediately...but the ghost line of the previous folds faded after awhile until I could no longer see them at all. My cord jacket kept its lines, but only faintly and it didn't bother me.


----------



## hookem12387

Can anyone date this label?


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ Mid to late 1990s - it has the famous unlined collar.


----------



## AldenPyle

nerdykarim said:


> If anyone has done some Filson shopping recently, I'd appreciate a quick answer to my quick question
> 
> I'd like to buy a 257 and I'm pretty price-sensitive. Where's the cheapest place to buy one? Should I just call Cranes and ask for the forum discount?


My guess is yes. I don't think its easy to get Filson discounts anyplace, at least online.


----------



## hookem12387

Cardinals5 said:


> ^^ Mid to late 1990s - it has the famous unlined collar.


Any off hand memory of the fit? I have an 80's shirt from Brooks that's equivalent to the current slim fit, but I'm not sure how a 90's model will fit. Thanks a ton, Cards


----------



## Cardinals5

It'll be a "traditional" fit - i.e. loose. For your size, I'd recommend trying to find some of the earliest slim fits, which also had unlined collars. The label of early slim fits looks very similar to the one you showed above except it says "Slim Fit" instead of "Makers". IIRC, the early slim fit tags used blue thread, but I could be wrong


----------



## hookem12387

Thanks, Cards. Always appreciated (greatly).


----------



## nerdykarim

AldenPyle said:


> My guess is yes. I don't think its easy to get Filson discounts anyplace, at least online.


Thanks. I ended up assuming that was the right call and placed the order. 
$208 shipped; it seemed like a heck of a deal.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Jovan said:


> Best way to get Bean Bluchers on the cheap or a good, not-too-pricey alternative if they are "not-what-they-used-to-be"?


llbean.com they've had some 20 and 30% off deals the past few months.


----------



## Dr. D

This appears to be dartless, but is it a 3/2 or just a standard 3 button?


----------



## Cardinals5

3/2 sack that's been buttoned incorrectly and pinned in the back


----------



## Dr. D

That's what I thought- thanks for the verification!


----------



## bboysdontcryy

Guys, what sort of color (on an alligator belt) would you recommend I go with for a more versatile and traditional look?

https://www.alligatorleather.com/belts1.html (see colors - I was thinking of Kangaroo Brown or Dark brown Classic).

Also, would you guys recommend that I have black horn buttons or brown horn buttons for a navy blazer?


----------



## dorji

bboysdontcryy said:


> Also, would you guys recommend that I have black horn buttons or brown horn buttons for a navy blazer?


See this: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?110883-A-little-help-with-decisions........


----------



## lsyx

I'm looking at getting a Press 3/2 sack, but I'm real skinny. I fit pretty decently into a Brooks Fitzgerald 36S, what is the fit on a Press 36S going to be like? Is it worth buying or would I have to do heavy tailoring to get it to fit?


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Isyx: This will depend to some extent on the particular jacket at Press. There is some variability, in part because different makers have made Press jackets over the years. I'm typically a 43L at most stores, and I tend to be a 42L at Press. On occasion, however, a 43L at Press fits better. It just depends.

It's too bad that you are too far from a Press store to try a few jackets on. But you could measure your Fitzgerald and then call a Press salesman for some measurements. I wouldn't be surprised if you'd have to get a little tailoring done to the jacket when you received it, but you obviously wouldn't want it to require major alterations.


----------



## mikeh

I'd like to avoid wearing striped ties that have regimental, school, other associations that I don't have a right to, is there some sort of reference that I can use with confidence for this? I've looked at the Ben Silver site and seen the ones they have, but I don't know if that is comprehensive enough. I don't need absolutely exhaustive, just enough to count as due diligence. I'd also like to use it as a guide to acquire some of the ones I do have a right to. In the US, am I going to be stuck with the fleeting preferences of the various "spirit shops" on campus, or is there a more historically based resource?

Mike


----------



## Cardinals5

Hey Hookem, you're mailbox is full! I was just asking about those Florsheim shell lhs and how they turned out.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Cardinals5 said:


> Hey Hookem, you're mailbox is full! I was just asking about those Florsheim shell lhs and how they turned out.


Hook said in the WAYWT thread that he gave up recreational internet use for lent.


----------



## Patrick06790

mikeh said:


> I'd like to avoid wearing striped ties that have regimental, school, other associations that I don't have a right to, is there some sort of reference that I can use with confidence for this? I've looked at the Ben Silver site and seen the ones they have, but I don't know if that is comprehensive enough. I don't need absolutely exhaustive, just enough to count as due diligence. I'd also like to use it as a guide to acquire some of the ones I do have a right to. In the US, am I going to be stuck with the fleeting preferences of the various "spirit shops" on campus, or is there a more historically based resource?
> 
> Mike


This topic has inspired considerable controversy in the past. I come from the school of thought that holds that it's not a big deal if:
a) you're not in England ( a lot of regimentals refer to English units) 
b) the stripes go the American direction, of course I can't remember what that is

As far as researching them I don't know of a central resource, Ben Silver's catalog is probably as good as anything else.


----------



## AlanC

^+1 to what Patrick said.


----------



## Cardinals5

ArtVandalay said:


> Hook said in the WAYWT thread that he gave up recreational internet use for lent.


Ah, I missed that, thanks.


----------



## AlanC

^What's giving up "recreational" internet have to do with not posting on the Trad forum?


----------



## Dr. D

Are the chocolate brown hand sewn suede loafers at Brooks (Item 291H) made by Alden? And if they are Aldens does anyone know the last?

Thanks!


----------



## mhj

I think that you will have difficulty finding a pattern that hasn't been claimed by one organization or another.



Patrick06790 said:


> This topic has inspired considerable controversy in the past. I come from the school of thought that holds that it's not a big deal if:
> a) you're not in England ( a lot of regimentals refer to English units)
> b) the stripes go the American direction, of course I can't remember what that is
> 
> As far as researching them I don't know of a central resource, Ben Silver's catalog is probably as good as anything else.


----------



## dnfuss

I'm new, so please take it easy on me. Searched for this, but didn't see an answer. I want to buy a pair of woven-leather tassel loafers suitable for wear without socks for semi-dressy occasions in tropical climes (efforts to talk me out of this will probably not succeed). Cole-Haan used to carry a model called the Rivaldi under their Bragano line that was just what I want (see below) and came in my size, 9.5W. Alas, I have waited too long and they no longer carry it. Is there someone else who makes this shoe? To make it even more difficult, my budget is <$400. All suggestions much appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## CMDC

Not tassel, but AE has a Venetian woven loafer now out, the Positano...


----------



## Steve Smith

mikeh said:


> I'd like to avoid wearing striped ties that have regimental, school, other associations that I don't have a right to, is there some sort of reference that I can use with confidence for this? I've looked at the Ben Silver site and seen the ones they have, but I don't know if that is comprehensive enough.


It sounds to me like you have done reasonable due diligence. The BS site is the best I have come across for this purpose. If you are a thrifter, be wary of Ben Silver ties in the wild. I have run across a BS Marine Corps tie and one based upon the Vietnam Service Ribbon. Neither had any reference to their origin printed on a label.


----------



## jrrcsava

I am interested in purchasing a tan seersucker sport coat but i am having a hard time envisioning what pants I could wear with it. Could someone give me some quick examples of pants that would go with it?

This is the jacket in case you need it


----------



## palmettoking

Navy or olive chinos are what comes to mind first. Perhaps some nantucket reds as well.


----------



## Cardinals5

jrrcsava said:


> I am interested in purchasing a tan seersucker sport coat but i am having a hard time envisioning what pants I could wear with it. Could someone give me some quick examples of pants that would go with it?
> 
> This is the jacket in case you need it


I like "natural linen" with my tan seersucker jacket, but cream or dark brown can work as well. Here's an old pic


----------



## jrrcsava

I like the idea of reds. I would have never thought of that. Thanks!


----------



## spielerman

So how does one identify a shoe as a corrected grain leather shoe? How could you tell this from a picture? 

Thanks Trad Kings in advance!


----------



## zbix

Correct grain is very shiny/plastic, has horrible "crisp" creases, and when scuffed it is usually lighter in color. The scuffs also usually can't be covered.

On the other hand, full grain leather doesn't have the same patent shine unless polished like crazy, if you inspect the surface closely you can usually see pores, and scuffs to a polish job can be buffed out.

Sometimes it can be difficult to tell from a picture though. I would look at the creases and shine. Then rely on a general familiarity with the shoe model or maker if possible. Like all leathers, there are varying qualities of correct grain leathers. Allen Edmonds for instance uses a "Polished Cobbler" leather for some of their shoes. This is a correct grain leather, but most would say it's better than some of the plasticky ones used on penny loafers being made these days.


----------



## spielerman

*Shell Cordovan and Appropriate suit/ slack with #8?*

Ok, got a question about appropriateness of Shell with suits -specifically the #8 color shell or burgundy color..

I'm well versed in the "rule" (which is broken a lot) about bals with suits, not bluch...

But what about shell bals in the #8 or burgundy color with Dark suits (navy, dark grey/charcoal? How about just with the similar colored slacks?

With the price of new shell shoes if I could limit the discussion to casual vs formal - it would be nice without technically having to break established "rules" or be questioned by some critical eye while walking the streets...

Thank you in advance.


----------



## Jovan

spielerman: Generally if a dress shoe is less than $150 new, it's corrected grain leather.

Honestly, there's no rule about shells with suits. If the colour looks right, wear it.


----------



## winslow

How's it going, gentlemen? Can someone tell me how the thrift exchange works? How do you claim an item? What is the method of payment ( paypal, credit card)? I love the items, but my confusion regarding procedure and payment makes me only a spectator and not a buyer.


----------



## Jovan

Private message the seller by clicking on their name. Payment is up to you and the seller, but everyone generally wants Paypal. Hope this helps.


----------



## winslow

Thanks, Jovan. That does help!!
Take it easy.
W


----------



## spielerman

A question about Freeman shoes? Any good, what would you compare a classic freeman bootmaker shoe to in terms of quality. I also know there is Freeman flex, any difference?


----------



## nerdykarim

Does anyone have any recommendations for replacement laces for Indy boots?


----------



## closerlook

alden store nyc


----------



## dorji

Does Oxford cloth work well in the summer? Despite it's heavy weight it seems like it might breathe well? I am considering ordering pinpoint from BB to stand in for my OCBD... good idea?


----------



## nerdykarim

dorji said:


> Does Oxford cloth work well in the summer? Despite it's heavy weight it seems like it might breathe well? I am considering ordering pinpoint from BB to stand in for my OCBD... good idea?


I don't mind oxford cloth in the summer/don't find it any more uncomfortable than pinpoint.



closerlook said:


> alden store nyc


Thanks. I should have specified that although calling Alden was an option, that I was a little bit disappointed with the laces and was looking for a source on some alternatives. Maybe a brown flat waxed lace in 56"


----------



## closerlook

not quite what you meant but could be worth inquiring about:


----------



## LouB

*Tweed jacket storage*

What's the best way to store my tweed jackets for the summer? Right now I have them on suit hangars with laundry bags over them to keep the dust off. Is this OK?

Thanks.


----------



## Jovan

Perfectly acceptable. If your hangers aren't cedar, consider dropping a couple blocks of it into the garment bags. They should preferably be a breathable fabric like cotton canvas. The plastic ones deserve to be recycled along with all those grocery bags that pile up under the kitchen sink.


----------



## hookem12387

Does anyone have suggestions for this scenario: I have a slide buckle belt from Polo, it regularly slides to be looser than I'd like it, and I have to continually tighten it. Anyway to get this thing to hang in there a bit tighter?


----------



## Charles Saturn

Do leatherman surcingle belts run slightly long or short? I am a 37" waist, so should I get a 38" or a 40"?


----------



## Sir Cingle

^I'm not sure it's going to matter that much, Charles. But I'd go for the 38. I own a number of Leatherman belts, and I'd say they are more likely to be too big than too small. But, as I said, it probably won't matter; both would fit you.


----------



## Charles Saturn

It seems that you are uniquely qualified to answer the question.


----------



## palmettoking

^ Haha clever +1


----------



## LeggeJP1

Is a single cedar hanger, supported by two mothballs in the bottom of the bag, sufficient to keep a three-piece suit stored in a garment bag moth-free?


----------



## Orgetorix

LeggeJP1 said:


> Is a single cedar hanger, supported by two mothballs in the bottom of the bag, sufficient to keep a three-piece suit stored in a garment bag moth-free?


In order to be effective, mothballs have to be with the garment in an airtight container where the fumes can build up. I suspect the same is true for cedar. So, while your hanger and two mothballs might help a little, the best part of your arrangement is that the suit is in a bag where the moths can't get at it. This assumes you've had it dry cleaned to remove anything already lurking in the fibers.


----------



## Charles Saturn

Have we gotten confirmation that the freezer kills moth larva or their eggs, whatever it is that they deposit?


----------



## The Rambler

Charles, I think we have.


----------



## maddog

I'm curious about reliable sizing for dress shirts. I am a trad-leaning student with a very small wardrobe of four dress shirts. Three of these are from Land's End. The LE 15.5-32 fits me perfectly. 

I'd like to order shirts online, but I want to know if I can expect Brooks, RL, and J Press 15.5-32s to have the same neck size and sleeve length as an LE 15.5-32. I'm not talking about "fit," just whether they will fit similarly around my neck and whether the cuffs will fall at roughly the same place.


----------



## fiddler

Charles Saturn said:


> Have we gotten confirmation that the freezer kills moth larva or their eggs, whatever it is that they deposit?


From what I've read the larva needs a temperature between 50 and 92 degrees fahrenheit to complete their life cycle. However, to prevents the eggs/larvas from evolving at a later point they need to kept at -4 degrees temperature (remember to measure temperature inside the garment) for a couple of hours. 
Remember that the eggs are very loosely attached to the fibers, which is why you won't find moth attacks on clothing that is in use. If you're thinking about storing the clothes cold, you should be fine as long as you brush and wash before throwing them in the freezer.


----------



## hookem12387

maddog said:


> I'm curious about reliable sizing for dress shirts. I am a trad-leaning student with a very small wardrobe of four dress shirts. Three of these are from Land's End. The LE 15.5-32 fits me perfectly.
> 
> I'd like to order shirts online, but I want to know if I can expect Brooks, RL, and J Press 15.5-32s to have the same neck size and sleeve length as an LE 15.5-32. I'm not talking about "fit," just whether they will fit similarly around my neck and whether the cuffs will fall at roughly the same place.


They're going to be pretty close. Brooks' supima OCBDs (must iron) have been known to shrink just a tad, so maybe keep that in mind if you're at the borderline of your LE size. Welcome to the forum!


----------



## fashion_victim

I've seen the Brooks corporate card mentioned a bunch. How does one get one of these?


----------



## Orgetorix

fashion_victim said:


> I've seen the Brooks corporate card mentioned a bunch. How does one get one of these?


Once you have 100 posts, you get access to a part of the forum here where you can sign up for a card through AAAC.

Or, you can go through Borders Rewards and probably get one immediately.


----------



## TartanRetriever

Long Time Reader, First Time Poster:

I think that clothes should hang from the shoulder, not the waist. So I'm a fan of braces. But are braces ever paired with a non-buttondown? e.g. a long-sleeve merino polo under a jacket? My future law firm is business casual, and I probably won't wear a OCBD every day.

I'm thinking it's OK, so long as the jacket doesn't come off. Thoughts?


----------



## Flip Richards

Spring is coming and I am thinking of my Wash and Wear suit collection. First off, and I apologise if this it a FAQ, but what is the recommended hue for shoes when you are wearing a very light colored tan wash and wear sack? I believe black is outs, not sure if brown is acceptable (especially in the city), and still need a good pair of white bucks. What else can I wear with a khaki-colored spring suit of this type?

Furthermore, what is the best way of removing these suits from storage? If they are carefully folded up and trunked in packages, will it suffice to lay out on the bed for a day and then hang, or must they be ironed or even just steamed prior to their first wear?

Thanks fellows for the aid.


^ I say Do it, but be sure to post a pic in WAYW.


----------



## Jovan

TartanRetriever said:


> Long Time Reader, First Time Poster:
> 
> I think that clothes should hang from the shoulder, not the waist. So I'm a fan of braces. But are braces ever paired with a non-buttondown? e.g. a long-sleeve merino polo under a jacket? My future law firm is business casual, and I probably won't wear a OCBD every day.
> 
> I'm thinking it's OK, so long as the jacket doesn't come off. Thoughts?


 Aren't those meant to be worn untucked, like a sweater? You could just wear them over your undershirt. With regular polos tucked in, I'd say just suck it up and wear a belt.


----------



## andy b.

fashion_victim said:


> I've seen the Brooks corporate card mentioned a bunch. How does one get one of these?


Another 140 years or so worth of posts and you should have one! 

andy b.


----------



## chilton

Charles Saturn said:


> Have we gotten confirmation that the freezer kills moth larva or their eggs, whatever it is that they deposit?


Does steaming do the job?


----------



## hookem12387

I'm sure not having this by 24 is sinful, but does anyone know of a good 'starter kit' for shoe maintenance? Brush, polish, conditioner I'd guess. I only have 1 pair of cordovan and they're ebay'd and cheap, so I'm not as concerned with shell aspects for now. Thanks, as always.


----------



## Jovan

A shame, but most shoe care kits don't include conditioner, even the $90 ones.


----------



## Jovan

Sorry... I'm stupid. This $95 one from Allen-Edmonds does, actually: 

Their other two kits they sell do not include conditioner, however. You might just have to buy those three items separately.


----------



## Flip Richards

Bump?


----------



## hookem12387

Jovan said:


> Sorry... I'm stupid. This $95 one from Allen-Edmonds does, actually:
> 
> Their other two kits they sell do not include conditioner, however. You might just have to buy those three items separately.


Thanks!


----------



## Cardinals5

Hook, avoid those terrible shoe shine "kits" and just go to a decent local cobbler and only buy the stuff you actually need (shoe brush, creme polish to match shoes, and wax polish that's in the ballpark of the shoe color). Next, stop at your local automotive parts store and get yourself bottles of Lexol Leather Cleaner and Lexol Leather Conditioner. Need polishing rags, just buy a t-shirt from the local thrift shop on the sale day (xxl is obviously the best bang for your buck). Done.


----------



## hookem12387

Perfect, Cards. Thanks. The money likely saved will be very appreciated.


----------



## Piscator

What colors of OCBD work best with a blue/white seersucker jacket? White is probably a given...what other recommendations do folks have?


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Blue or Pink.


----------



## hookem12387

WouldaShoulda said:


> Blue or Pink.


 Yellow looks good, too


----------



## Flip Richards

What preps if any necessary for car when using driving gloves? Am about to spring for my first pair, am a bit concerned as the winter black leather gloves I am currently using sort of "stick" to the steering wheel when driving just enough to be slightly annoying. I am hoping that the switch to a good driving glove is going to change this.

Also, I know it's probably a faq, yet I still can't find it. Looking for guidelines on the right hue for shoes when donning the tan/olive/light colored suits.


----------



## The Rambler

Flip, for me, just about any brown, from tan to dark, also, depending on the suit, burgundy shades, all the way to cordovan #8.


----------



## dawgdoc1

*Trad suggestions for carribean wedding*

just curious what might be "trad" for attending a wedding in the carribean


----------



## Jovan

dawgdoc1 said:


> just curious what might be "trad" for attending a wedding in the carribean


 Sorry, not a trad answer, but ask the couple what is appropriate. I would think this is common sense.


----------



## Pink and Green

How often do Sero and Gant shirts show up in your thrifts? I can get Brooks any day of the week here on the forum, though they are rare as Hen's teeth here in Oklahoma. Just curious how common "the good stuff" is out there.


----------



## Cardinals5

My comments below are conditioned by where I live - forumites in the Northeast, for example, should see Sero a lot more often than I do since Sero was based in New Haven.

Gant - everytime, but they're almost always cotton-poly blends or some cheap crud made within the last 10-15 years. The good stuff (Gant Shirtmakers) is quite rare and I might see it a couple times a year in 100% cotton.

Hathaway - pretty often, if not everytime, but also mostly cotton-poly blends. Good, early Hathaway in 100% cotton shows up at least once a month, but I usually leave it behind or buy it for myself since they rarely sell on the thrift exchange.

Sero - same story, cotton-poly are seen pretty often though less than Gant or Hathaway. Real, vintage 100% cotton in very good or better condition are seen about once every two months.

Troy Shirtmakers - some later model crud with heavily fused collars can be found on occasion, but the good stuff I only see a couple times a year.


----------



## hookem12387

On this line of posts, how would Hamilton brand shirts sell here? It's a Houston based shirtmaker, and a brilliant one at that, but until recently my understanding was that there was very little awareness of the brand outside of Texas. I run across them ALL THE TIME, but rarely in my size


----------



## C. Sharp

I have seen them on the blogs. I was surprised by the big price tag. They seem like they might be targeted to the 20 something crowd.



hookem12387 said:


> On this line of posts, how would Hamilton brand shirts sell here? It's a Houston based shirtmaker, and a brilliant one at that, but until recently my understanding was that there was very little awareness of the brand outside of Texas. I run across them ALL THE TIME, but rarely in my size


----------



## hookem12387

C. Sharp said:


> I have seen them on the blogs. I was surprised by the big price tag. They seem like they might be targeted to the 20 something crowd.


Their new 1883 line is, largely. It's recent, though. Prior to that it was all bespoke shirting for successful Houston men.


----------



## C. Sharp

Interesting info thanks.



hookem12387 said:


> They're new 1883 line is, largely. It's recent, though. Prior to that it was all bespoke shirting for successful Houston men, generally.


----------



## dorji

Regarding BB: can the Brooks card 15% off your first purchase be stacked with the corporate discount???


----------



## BorderBandit

Brand spankin' new member posting, but have been reading AAAC for a while now. Two quick questions that I have not really been able to find an answer for, one practical one theoretical.

First and foremost, where does one find size 14-15 D shoes? I ask because in searching, it seems like everyone who points out where has the qualifer "when they're in stock, etc.". Is there one place specifically that us roaming sasquatches can find adequate footwear?

Second, the theoretical, what are members' opinions on throwing in some regional and/or colloquial flair to their trad wear? For example, I'm from Texas and for us "trad" (outside the New England look) means boots are pretty common. To satisfy those demanding my qualifications, yes I am from a ranch, yes we own cattle, thus boots are a necessity and I'd like to incorporate them into my style. Is this similar to those of Scottish/Irish decent wearing family tartans, people using family crests, etc? The Japanese seem to have come to perfect this with their own unique take on trad. I've come to realize that trad isn't so narrowly defined as to exempt a personal flair from your wardrobe, but to what extent and in which ways do people incorporate their culture into their clothes?


----------



## Jovan

Are you talking about cowboy boots? I know desert boots are pretty well accepted here.


----------



## hookem12387

Feel free to throw on a pair of boots with your suits or jeans. It's out birthright; no northeasterner can take it away!


----------



## BorderBandit

Exactly, cowboy boots. Like hookem (whom I believe is a tsip, just sayin...) it's a birthright here. Although my Yankee friends tend to ridicule you for wearing them. It's a question of how much your culture shows through and how accepted that is trad style. I mean, it's all about making it your own right? I was just wondering if other areas of the country had the same thing coming through and what that might be.


----------



## The Rambler

Welcome, BB: there's a lot of overlap, for sure, but I believe there _are_ regional differences; "trad," as a neologism, is a tough word to base a discussion on, since no one seems to get very far saying what "trad" is, and few sensible people care, but "Southern trad" is a bit different from the Northeastern version, the Westcoast version, the Japanese version, etc. I tried to start a thread on this once, but it went nowhere.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
+1 and thus we serve witness to the birthing of....Texas Trad! Why, LOL, even some of us 'wannabe cowboys' enjoy wearing a nice pair of boots, on occasion. Don't know if it's Trad but, can't say I will lose any sleep over it, if it isn't!  Welcome to the forum BorderBandit.



BorderBandit said:


> Brand spankin' new member posting, but have been reading AAAC for a while now....
> ...
> Second, the theoretical, what are members' opinions on throwing in some regional and/or colloquial flair to their trad wear? For example, I'm from Texas and for us "trad" (outside the New England look) means boots are pretty common. To satisfy those demanding my qualifications, yes I am from a ranch, yes we own cattle, thus boots are a necessity and I'd like to incorporate them into my style. Is this similar to those of Scottish/Irish decent wearing family tartans, people using family crests, etc? The Japanese seem to have come to perfect this with their own unique take on trad. I've come to realize that trad isn't so narrowly defined as to exempt a personal flair from your wardrobe, but to what extent and in which ways do people incorporate their culture into their clothes?


----------



## BorderBandit

Hahaha, thanks Eagle. I figured it was simply a regional variation on the same themes y'know? You can ask hookem, a pair of bespoke (yes bespoke) boots are very common here, as are wearing shooting/hunting shirts and school colours. It seems to me that it's the same idea of trad anywhere in the country but with our own twists engendered by the conditions in which we live. In New England obviously you'll have more cold weather stuff, seersucker in the south, so on and so forth. I'd be interested to hear others personal takes on this.


----------



## hookem12387

BorderBandit said:


> Hahaha, thanks Eagle. I figured it was simply a regional variation on the same themes y'know? You can ask hookem, a pair of bespoke (yes bespoke) boots are very common here, as are wearing shooting/hunting shirts and school colours. It seems to me that it's the same idea of trad anywhere in the country but with our own twists engendered by the conditions in which we live. In New England obviously you'll have more cold weather stuff, seersucker in the south, so on and so forth. I'd be interested to hear others personal takes on this.


I'm going to endorse the boots, particularly bespoke ones, but hunting/fishing shirts when not hunting or fishing is just lazy, IMO. But yes, a good pair of boots can look great, even with a suit, though I don't do it myself.


----------



## BorderBandit

hookem12387 said:


> I'm going to endorse the boots, particularly bespoke ones, but hunting/fishing shirts when not hunting or fishing is just lazy, IMO. But yes, a good pair of boots can look great, even with a suit, though I don't do it myself.


I have to concur. Too many men down here adopt the uniform of hunting/fishing shirts as a staple of corpulent comfort. And I mean c'mon, it's always the same type of lazy guys. While it may be hot here (105 last week, welcome spring) there are other options. Of course when you DO try to do something different like wear a seersucker blazer, let the denigrating comments from the sloppy set start...


----------



## dawgdoc1

just wondering.....do hooked vents lay/rest differntly than normal center vents??? I just bought a blazer with a hooked vent from a friend and it splits a little when I wear it. Is that normal or is the coat possibly a little too small??? thanks!


----------



## dorji

It is my understanding that a hook vent is designed to be _less_ prone to splitting open.


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Dorji is correct. Here's an Ivy Style piece on the hook vent, which should clear things up for dawgdoc:

https://www.ivy-style.com/the-hook-vent-trademark-of-the-ivy-leauge-look.html


----------



## dawgdoc1

Thanks y'all. That's very helpful!


----------



## C. Sharp

I have been searching in vain, did someone post a brief history of the h. i. s. company recently?


----------



## The Rambler

I think not, though mentioned. They were huge in their day, the 60s: H.I.S. and HIS for Her: super trim cut, and so heavily non-iron that they were impossible to alter; that, plus old days exact sizing, meant huge displays of the brand, 36-28, 29-33, etc.


----------



## C. Sharp

Rambler, Thanks for your input I appreciate it.


----------



## fashion_victim

I have a scuff/scratch on the heel of one of my shoes. Should I just use black shoe polish on it, or is there some other trick? Thanks.


----------



## dorji

^^Edge dressing. I use Fiebings. Don't spill it


----------



## dawgdoc1

Is a hidden button down collar, considered Trad??? Like these?? 

just curious, thanks!!


----------



## fashion_victim

dorji said:


> ^^Edge dressing. I use Fiebings. Don't spill it


Thanks!


----------



## Jovan

dawgdoc1 said:


> Is a hidden button down collar, considered Trad??? Like these??
> 
> just curious, thanks!!


I'm sure many purists here would sniff at it, but if you like it then get it.


----------



## hookem12387

A khaki sportcoat looks good with...?
An olive sportcoat looks good with...?

I'm thinking olive is more versatile, but I just kind of like khaki more. Thoughts? Thanks, as always


----------



## C. Sharp

Just say no. I am lost to why they would make a royal oxford in a non iron.



dawgdoc1 said:


> Is a hidden button down collar, considered Trad??? Like these??
> 
> just curious, thanks!!


----------



## zbix

Picked up an unusual pair of Pinch Penny Loafers. Just curious as to the maker and vintage. The inside looks like a pair of AE loafers I have, but the outside and 3-digit model number look like Alden. Looks similar to my 984 around the strap, but this is a pinch toe. Can't read the maker on the insole, but it says 
"Genuine Moccasin, _Something_ LTD, Handsewn in USA"


----------



## fiddler

^ 
Barrie LTD


----------



## alexaristoi

*Barbour Question*

Hello everyone,
I was wondering why the Beaufort model is so popular in the states. Whenever the speech is about Barbour it's a synonym for Beaufort.
What's with the other models? Bedale, Border, Game Fair, etc.?
thank you
:icon_smile:


----------



## The Rambler

I, for one, prefer the Bedale, a better length for fishing and horse-riding, but the Beaufort is indeed more popular. It's what you see in catalogues that carry only one model. Perhaps because many people want a length that just covers a suit jacket?


----------



## Sir Cingle

hookem12387 said:


> A khaki sportcoat looks good with...?
> An olive sportcoat looks good with...?
> 
> I'm thinking olive is more versatile, but I just kind of like khaki more. Thoughts? Thanks, as always


I agree that olive is more versatile, especially since I wear khaki pants so much, and obviously one ought not wear a khaki jacket with it. I suppose you could wear a khaki jacket with jeans, but I've never been partial to this look myself. Pretty much any sort of dark pants would look good with a khaki jacket, I think. You've still got lots of options.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

Olive-grey Brooks Wash 'n Wear suit. What color shoes?


----------



## zbix

fiddler said:


> ^
> Barrie LTD


Thank you! Any idea who made them for them?


----------



## Trip English

I think the khaki color cotton jacket is the more versatile. Give you something to wear with dark jeans and navy chinos.


----------



## CMDC

For a couple posts up...

Beaufort for me is perfect because I wear a sport coat most days and its the right length. It's also good for casual wear. Bedale would be too short w/jacket underneath. With only one Barbour in the closet, it's the most versatile IMO.


----------



## Trip English

^Agreed. I have both now, but for some time I only had the Beaufort and I had chosen it based on length for a sport coat or suit jacket.


----------



## Cardinals5

AdamsSutherland said:


> Olive-grey Brooks Wash 'n Wear suit. What color shoes?


black or burgundy. Would probably wear black myself.


----------



## AlanC

^Honestly, I think you could wear brown, burgundy or black.


----------



## hardline_42

alexaristoi said:


> Hello everyone,
> I was wondering why the Beaufort model is so popular in the states. Whenever the speech is about Barbour it's a synonym for Beaufort.
> What's with the other models? Bedale, Border, Game Fair, etc.?
> thank you
> :icon_smile:


 It might be because the Beaufort is similar in design and cut to a barn jacket, which is quite popular in the states even with the non-trad.

I just recently got my Beaufort back from being reproofed and repaired at Barbour USA in NH. During those long and agonizing months, I had almost convinced myself that I liked my Bedale more. Of course, as soon as I put the Beaufort on I realized how much more I prefer it. It's much more functional (longer length, game pocket, hidden sunglasses pocket) and it just "feels" right.


----------



## AdamsSutherland

AlanC said:


> ^Honestly, I think you could wear brown, burgundy or black.


I have no idea when I'll have a chance to wear it, but it fits and I couldn't say no to the only sack suit I've ever thrifted that fit. We will see.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

I'd be inclined to think your avatar shoes would do well...


----------



## leisureclass

Quick question: When it comes to old J Press labels, something that only lists 3 stores (NH, NYC, Cam) is generally from what time period?


----------



## CMDC

SF store opened in 1968...

https://www.ivy-style.com/family-guy-the-richard-press-interview.html#more-1662


----------



## leisureclass

Thanks, I figured it was sometime around then, just didn't have an exact number. I'm asking because I just got, what seems like a really good deal, on a suit on ebay. This is the seller provided photo of the label:









I really hope it fits.


----------



## C. Sharp

I would think either before 1968 or roughly 1980-88 after the closing of San Fran but before the opening of the Washington. I am thinking this is the rough rule for American market products.


----------



## hookem12387

Couple of tailoring questions:
1. How much can you effectively bring in the waist of a pair of pants? I'm a 31" waist which frequently proves issue, even with sz 41L suits. 

2. Is it possible, if costly, to completely remake a pair of pants that is significantly too large? Say, waist too large, crotch much too long of a drop (for me this is a frequent issue since a lot of the older suits are higher rise than I'm comfortable wearing), etc... Thanks all


----------



## Peak and Pine

hookem12387 said:


> ...crotch much too long of a drop...


I think you mean too much of a _rise_, but yes, pants can be taken in at the waist, seat and crotch. Hell, if I can do it, I'm pretty sure an actual tailor can.


----------



## Cowtown

hookem12387 said:


> Couple of tailoring questions:
> 1. How much can you effectively bring in the waist of a pair of pants? I'm a 31" waist which frequently proves issue, even with sz 41L suits.
> 
> 2. Is it possible, if costly, to completely remake a pair of pants that is significantly too large? Say, waist too large, crotch much too long of a drop (for me this is a frequent issue since a lot of the older suits are higher rise than I'm comfortable wearing), etc... Thanks all


I think pants can be brought in about 3 inches or so without without having to recut the pants which is much more involved and expensive, which what you would need to do to address your second point.


----------



## hookem12387

Thanks yall.


----------



## Rugby

what would be the best way to wear a pair of white Bucks like these:

https://www.johnstonmurphy.com/product.aspx?c=1215&pid=42844

I love these, but I wouldnt know the best way to wear them...


----------



## hookem12387

With nearly anything. Jeans, chinos of almost any color, seersucker, shorts. I'm not sure what you can't wear them with other than a business suit. Also, welcome to the forum fellow Texan


----------



## Rugby

thanks! I'm sure I'll have more questions for you...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Rugby said:


> what would be the *best wa*y to wear a pair of white Bucks like these...


I assume you mean the_ second_ best way. The first best way involves using them as a buffer between your feet and Happy Street. That's a good-looking shoe, red sole and all, and if you look further down that page you'll see similar but in an equally good-looking mock wing tip. Consider wearing only with light colored clothing beneath-the-belt, for the contrast is too strong for much else. _Dirty bucks_ is a term we used for these in decades past when we wouldn't clean them which was all the time and with the dirty version you can wear them with most anything especially rum.


----------



## Charles Saturn

Your thoughts on these two ties please to wear with a blue blazer, white shirt, probably seersucker pants, at a small wedding reception at the couples house. Obviously, looking to spice things up with some color. Sometimes I question a tie with a navy field with a navy blazer.

https://www.collaredgreens.com/mm5/...RED&Product_Code=MT-1009-01&Category_Code=MEN

Any other suggestions certainly welcome.


----------



## Wisco

Charles Saturn said:


> Your thoughts on these two ties please to wear with a blue blazer, white shirt, probably seersucker pants, at a small wedding reception at the couples house. Obviously, looking to spice things up with some color. Sometimes I question a tie with a navy field with a navy blazer.
> 
> https://www.collaredgreens.com/mm5/...RED&Product_Code=MT-1009-01&Category_Code=MEN
> 
> Any other suggestions certainly welcome.


I would vote for #1 as it has pop with the brightly colored strip but is otherwise quite sedate. I'm also not a fan of the lighter blue ground of #2 with a lighter blue seersucker... not enough contrast.


----------



## Peak and Pine

You have taste. As well as $85. I like them both.


----------



## Cowtown

My vote goes the the pink bar stripe. Those are some good looking ties. I have thought about ordering from Collared Greens, but have not yet had occasion to do so.


----------



## alexaristoi

are there any other trad (or preppy) forums? I was reading one a year ago but I forgot the name.
thank you


----------



## Cardinals5

The Curriculum
Talk Ivy


----------



## hookem12387

Talk Ivy? Hadn't even heard of it! Even more to read


----------



## mhj

Cardinals5 said:


> The Curriculum
> Talk Ivy


URLs please. Google came up a lot of hits for educational blogs.


----------



## Sir Cingle

The Curriculum:

https://thecurriculum.net/forum

FNB Talk Ivy:

https://forums.filmnoirbuff.com/viewforum.php?id=13


----------



## mhj

Sir Cingle said:


> The Curriculum:
> 
> https://thecurriculum.net/forum
> 
> FNB Talk Ivy:
> 
> https://forums.filmnoirbuff.com/viewforum.php?id=13


Thanks.


----------



## alexaristoi

Sir Cingle said:


> The Curriculum:
> 
> https://thecurriculum.net/forum
> 
> [/URL]


that was it  thank you sir


----------



## Jovan

How do the boat shoe offerings from Lands' End and L.L. Bean compare to Sperry Top-Siders or Sebago Docksides at around the same price?


----------



## Taken Aback

I asked that recently (another thread), and had zero responses. 

I have read reviews on LE, and some there say they run narrow. I really wonder by how much. I've had the green ones in my cart several times during the last few promos (I really like the shade), but still balked at taking the chance considering LE's reputation when it comes to shoes. Shirts aren't that inconvenient to bring to Sears, but shoes are a bit more of a chore.


----------



## Charles Saturn

Does the 15% discount with the Brooks Corporate card work on clearance items?


----------



## DoghouseReilly

^ I believe so.


----------



## Charles Saturn

^ Turns out no.


----------



## willis88

How "trad" are Ban-Lon polo shirts?


----------



## cecil47

willis88 said:


> How "trad" are Ban-Lon polo shirts?


Very trad. Yes they are.


----------



## Flip Richards

cecil47 said:


> Very trad. Yes they are.


Especially if you have the fit physique to wear them: either the muscular or very trim variety. Either way, it's a Trad basic. And I noticed that not enough of the men around here seem to appreciate them. None ever turn up in the Exchange. But they are simply a must.


----------



## willis88

Flip Richards said:


> Especially if you have the fit physique to wear them: either the muscular or very trim variety. Either way, it's a Trad basic. And I noticed that not enough of the men around here seem to appreciate them. None ever turn up in the Exchange. But they are simply a must.


I saw a picture of one somewhere and I thought that being very trim myself I could pull it off...

But does anyone still make them?


----------



## dorji

Anyone have the code for 40% off @ Press?


----------



## leisureclass

^^ PSJUN11 is the code.


----------



## Flip Richards

willis88 said:


> I saw a picture of one somewhere and I thought that being very trim myself I could pull it off...
> 
> But does anyone still make them?


No. Alas. Now they are obsessed with so called 'natural' compositions. You have to check eBay. Also try Etsy. And local thrifts. Good luck.


----------



## dorji

Thanks LC.


----------



## hookem12387

Has anyone sen any contrast collar oxfords lately? I've been wanting one


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ I've got one, but it's not very useful. The casual oxford cloth clashes with the contrast collar. Mine's not a button down, but that might make it even less useful.


----------



## hookem12387

Cardinals5 said:


> ^^ I've got one, but it's not very useful. The casual oxford cloth clashes with the contrast collar. Mine's not a button down, but that might make it even less useful.


Ya, it'd be purely casual which does make the button down collar even more essential IMO


----------



## chilton

I'm in need of a new blazer, Brooks has 30% off tailored clothing today...

Is it safe to assume the semi-annual sale next week will have blazers at >30% off?


----------



## spielerman

*What to wear with grey white seersucker jacket*

Hello everyone,
I've conducted the normal search, but have not seen the specific question asked before.

I just got this fine Grey and White Stripe Seersucker Jacket off of the exchange, and I am wondering what do I wear with it- trousers, shirt, shoes - fabric and colors.

Thank you again for all your Tradly Wisdom&#8230;.
:aportnoy:


----------



## hookem12387

chilton said:


> I'm in need of a new blazer, Brooks has 30% off tailored clothing today...
> 
> Is it safe to assume the semi-annual sale next week will have blazers at >30% off?


 There's a semi-annual sale next week? Is that the 25% off everything event? Or is that friends and family? I can't remember but do need a couple of new dress shirts, my neck seems to have shrunken from last time I bought some.


----------



## SconnieTrad

I wish my neck would shrink, the older I get the thicker it seems to become!


----------



## fashion_victim

Who makes Brooks' made in USA (i.e., not the Peal) calfskin shoes? Thanks!


----------



## Steve Smith

Alden has made shoes for BB for many years. Recently BB has started selling some shoes made by AE.


----------



## cimkemp

I am looking to purchase a Brooks Brothers Fitzgerald Navy Blazer. Currently, they are selling blazers that are partially lined (3/8th). Is this an ideal lining for a year round blazer? Or should I wait until fall/winter for a possible different lining option. Thanks


----------



## Jovan

Perfectly fine, though I'd search for a serge or doeskin blazer if you want to wear one in a New Jersey winter! It's worth noting that practically every vintage coat I've seen, whether worsted or tweed, suit or over coat, has partial lining.


----------



## Charles Saturn

Do Hyde Park oxfords shrink in the neck like BB's, because of this I buy a 1/2" larger than my actual with BB.


----------



## SconnieTrad

I am wearing a Hyde Park on it's 4th or 5th wash and haven't noticed any shrinking in the neck as of yet


----------



## BorderBandit

Ok here is a question that I'm pulling my hair out over. What exactly is the dominant or most noticeable colour of Brooks Brother's OCBD in ecru? I am so unbelievably colour blind as to not be able to tell. Ecru, as I have found in my research is described as "greyish pale yellow or light greyish-yellowish brown". Exactly what I can't tell. Knowing what it's *supposed* to be versus how it *actually* appears is where I get lost. And trust me, as someone who mistakenly before wore green pants with a green shirt and burgundy shoes, I know when to ask for help before buying things I shouldn't.


----------



## tc20

*RLPL ALLIGATOR BELT*

Does anyone have a RLPL alligator black belt in 36 or 38?

Very interested.

pm me.


----------



## roman totale XVII

Previous threads on the ecru OCBD proved it to be a somewhat divisive color. Personally, I love it and think it goes especially well with colder weather gear - flannels and tweed. My own best description of the color is "cream". Get some heavy cream and whip it up. You may think it looks white, but place it next to a glass of milk and you'll see the difference. Alternatively, I'd also use the notion of " antique white", the sort of color used in ceramic tiles and fixtures in (often faux) Victorian bathrooms.

Edit: I'm talking about BB OCBD color here.


----------



## hardline_42

Charles Saturn said:


> Do Hyde Park oxfords shrink in the neck like BB's, because of this I buy a 1/2" larger than my actual with BB.


 I've got a bunch of Hyde Parks that have been through at least two dozen washes if not more. I've never noticed any shrinking in the collar. I did notice about a half-inch of shrinkage in the sleeves. I wear a 15.5/32 FYI.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Some here have noted a bit of vanity sizing when it comes to LE collars. I sized up, myself, and regretted it. It took hot water and high heat to get a little shrinkage.


----------



## mhj

I won this suit on eBay today for $150. It looks like a tremendous deal to me (assuming it fits well or can be tailored), am I missing anything though.



Opinions please.


----------



## fashion_victim

I have just bought a pair of beautiful balmorals. However, there is a 3/4" gap at the top of the laces. How big a fashion faux pas is this? And would sizing up a width solve this issue? Thanks!


----------



## dorji

^^I would not worry one bit. I bet they stretch a little and you'll be glad for that 3/4 inch someday soon. :icon_smile:


----------



## Patrick06790

Looks good to me, although it's mot a windowpane really, it's a glen plaid. Are you going to have to let the pants down?


mhj said:


> I won this suit on eBay today for $150. It looks like a tremendous deal to me (assuming it fits well or can be tailored), am I missing anything though.
> 
> Opinions please.


----------



## Christophe

*Brooks Yellow OCBD*

How would you generally describe the color in a Brooks Brothers yellow OCBD? Is it pale? goldish? bright yellow? My screen is never reliable with colors, and they didn't have one in the store. 
Any insight is much appreciated.


----------



## mhj

Patrick06790 said:


> Looks good to me, although it's mot a windowpane really, it's a glen plaid. Are you going to have to let the pants down?


I know and that's fine, I've had a glen plaid in mind for a while now. From the measurements stated I'll need to let them down in inch.

Thanks.


----------



## C. Sharp

Honestly wish I could. I have one but it has faded over the years. Some people swear by them others swear at them.
here is an article you might like https://www.ivy-style.com/the-underappreciated-yellow-oxford.html



Christophe said:


> How would you generally describe the color in a Brooks Brothers yellow OCBD? Is it pale? goldish? bright yellow? My screen is never reliable with colors, and they didn't have one in the store.
> Any insight is much appreciated.


----------



## Christophe

C. Sharp said:


> Honestly wish I could. I have one but it has faded over the years. Some people swear by them others swear at them.
> here is an article you might like https://www.ivy-style.com/the-underappreciated-yellow-oxford.html


C. Sharp
Thanks for your reply, that article was really interesting. I never know OCBDs would fade, though. Just out of curiosity, how long have you had yours in order for it to fade?


----------



## C. Sharp

I believe the shirt is closing in on 20 years. I still have in rotation Brooks Brothers Oxford shirts ranging from 10-25 years old. I never really considered the fading aspect until I bought some dead stock that matched what I owned. For example the pinks were a deeper tone fresh in the package but the ones in the closet were a softer pink showing more of the white that is part of the oxford weave. Hope that makes sense.



Christophe said:


> C. Sharp
> Thanks for your reply, that article was really interesting. I never know OCBDs would fade, though. Just out of curiosity, how long have you had yours in order for it to fade?


----------



## Christophe

C. Sharp said:


> I believe the shirt is closing in on 20 years. I still have in rotation Brooks Brothers Oxford shirts ranging from 10-25 years old. I never really considered the fading aspect until I bought some dead stock that matched what I owned. For example the pinks were a deeper tone fresh in the package but the ones in the closet were a softer pink showing more of the white that is part of the oxford weave. Hope that makes sense.


That does make sense to me. It's great that you can buy a shirt, wear it for 20 years, and looks just as good as when it was new. 
Thanks for the help.


----------



## Taken Aback

Taken Aback said:


> I asked that recently (another thread), and had zero responses.
> 
> I have read reviews on LE, and some there say they run narrow. I really wonder by how much. I've had the green ones in my cart several times during the last few promos (I really like the shade), but still balked at taking the chance considering LE's reputation when it comes to shoes. Shirts aren't that inconvenient to bring to Sears, but shoes are a bit more of a chore.


Well, I won't be experimenting after reading one of the more recent reviews at LE. According to the review, the rear lacing on this shoe is ornamental. I called LE to confirm this, and it _is_ the case.

"True" (functional) boat shoes should have the one-lace design that goes around the heel, but LE's current stock of the model (which comes in several colors) has standard shoe lacing, and a separate glued/stitched-in length that's just for show. I didn't know this at first, because the photos I looked at are of either an early sample, or a better version from a different vendor, since they depict a one-lace design. However, after reading the review, I noticed the closeup view showed the (green) shoe laced in a way that made it impossible for the lace to be of one length. I looked at some of the colors I was less interested in, and see some more photos that confirm the rear lace is separate.

For some, that might not be a deal-killer, but I like a good fit around the heel. I certainly wouldn't want to wear these on a wet deck. I'll wait for Sperry in the same color again.


----------



## pistolandrapier

'Afternoon, everybody. Hope you're all doing well today. I had a quick question and wanted to pose it here (I did search beforehand, sorry if this is redundant—I hope not): When did Brooks Brothers begin to add their labels to the inside of their blazers/sport coats/suit jackets? In other words, now, there is a square label sewn into the left side of the said garment that usually says "Brooks Brothers," but some of the older ones do not have this. Example: when I was looking for older blazers on the bay, I came across this, which doesn't appear to have said label: 



Anyway, if there are any gents out there who can either remember, or just have general knowledge about, when BB introduced this particular practice of labeling, I would greatly appreciate it if they shared that knowledge. Thanks so much...hope this was clear.

Harry


----------



## Cardinals5

^^ I think the labels were moved from the collar to the inside of the jacket sometime in the 90s.


----------



## pistolandrapier

^^ Thank you.


----------



## Upscale

Are Land's End Men's dress shirts decent quality?

Right now I have absolutely nothing. I only have 1 dress shirt since I wear an unpopular size (15x35).


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Welcome to the forum, Upscale. As a search of the forum's archives will demonstrate, members tend to agree that Lands' End sells some decent dress shirts for the money. They are not necessarily the top of the line, of course, but they are a good value--and a good place to start.

If you'd like to find out more about Lands' End shirts, search the archives. You'll find much discussion of the topic.


----------



## Jovan

They're a good value for the money. I like them better than any department store brand I've seen (funny since LE is under the same umbrella as Sears). Their button down collars are made with soft, non-fused interlining or just none at all depending on the model. Most button downs in the same price range are fused.


----------



## hookem12387

I just like the LE trim fit. It's about as slim as I can go without popping a chest button on something like Brooks esf


----------



## Trip English

Sir Cingle said:


> ^Welcome to the forum, Upscale. As a search of the forum's archives will demonstrate, members tend to agree that Lands' End sells some decent dress shirts for the money. They are not necessarily the top of the line, of course, but they are a good value--and a good place to start.
> 
> If you'd like to find out more about Lands' End shirts, search the archives. You'll find much discussion of the topic.


Agree completely.


----------



## Christophe

Jovan said:


> Their button down collars are made with soft, non-fused interlining or just none at all depending on the model. Most button downs in the same price range are fused.


Do you know exactly which models are unlined?


----------



## Jovan

I think just the regular oxford is. From what I've read, the pinpoints and Hyde Park are lined. The non-iron ones are most likely fused like any other shirt that's supposed to look great out of the dryer.


----------



## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> I think just the regular oxford is. From what I've read, the pinpoints and Hyde Park are lined. The non-iron ones are most likely fused like any other shirt that's supposed to look great out of the dryer.


 I'm wearing a Hyde Park right now. It's lined but definitely not fused.


----------



## Upscale

Sir Cingle said:


> ^Welcome to the forum, Upscale. As a search of the forum's archives will demonstrate, members tend to agree that Lands' End sells some decent dress shirts for the money. They are not necessarily the top of the line, of course, but they are a good value--and a good place to start.
> 
> If you'd like to find out more about Lands' End shirts, search the archives. You'll find much discussion of the topic.





Jovan said:


> They're a good value for the money. I like them better than any department store brand I've seen (funny since LE is under the same umbrella as Sears). Their button down collars are made with soft, non-fused interlining or just none at all depending on the model. Most button downs in the same price range are fused.


Thanks a lot. I did try a brief search, but couldn't find any topics about them specifically.


----------



## Sir Cingle

^Upscale: Sometimes the search mechanism here leaves something to be desired. Here are a few threads that may be of interest to you:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?98529-OCBD-Features-and-Bugs-Bulllet-Point&highlight=OCBD+comparison

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?107125-The-Return-of-the-Hyde-Park&highlight=OCBD+comparison

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?110390-New-Color-for-LE-Hyde-Park&highlight=lands%27+end+shirt


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Upscale said:


> Thanks a lot. I did try a brief search, but couldn't find any topics about them specifically.


Don't bother with forum searching tools. In google, type:

site:askandyaboutclothes.com/forum whateverYouAreSearchingFor

"site:" denotes that you only want to search the site that follows. "whateverYouAreSearchingFor" is, well, whatever you are searching for.


----------



## fashion_victim

What is "natural" edge dressing for? The soles of my shoes all have brown or black edges. Thank you.


----------



## Cardinals5

Plenty of shoes have "natural" edging. Uncle Mac has a couple pair of shell lhs with natural edges. I just had an old pair of AE chukkas recrafted with chili colored edging so I'll use natural edging on them in the future.


----------



## fashion_victim

I guess I don't understand what "natural" edging is, then. Presumably that refers to the color? If so, what color is it? Thank you.


----------



## Cardinals5

Ah, it just means edge dressing without any dyes in it - it's clear. It's the same idea as "natural" shoe polish, which is colorless and can be used on any color shoe (though natural shoe polish tends to leave whitish build up in the creases)


----------



## mcarthur

Cardinals5 said:


> Plenty of shoes have "natural" edging. Uncle Mac has a couple pair of shell lhs with natural edges. I just had an old pair of AE chukkas recrafted with chili colored edging so I'll use natural edging on them in the future.


nephew,
post picture when you have an opportunity


----------



## Cardinals5

mcarthur said:


> nephew,
> post picture when you have an opportunity


Sure, here they are. The model is the AE Thor from the late 1970s

Before - with black edging

After - with the chili edges


----------



## fashion_victim

Cardinals5 said:


> Ah, it just means edge dressing without any dyes in it - it's clear. It's the same idea as "natural" shoe polish, which is colorless and can be used on any color shoe (though natural shoe polish tends to leave whitish build up in the creases)


Thank you. But I thought the point of edge dressing was to cover up scrapes and scratches...can clear edge dressing actually accomplish that? Obviously, I am missing something here.


----------



## Cardinals5

Here's Uncle Mac's shell lhs with natural edges. The edges of the leather soles have not been dyed with any color so they can simply be protected with "natural" edge dressing. Since the edges haven't been dyed any scrapes or nicks will simply be the same natural color as the original leather. On my chili example above, I'll have to use chili-colored wax polish to lightly dye any scrapes or marks, but can then protect the edges by using natural edge dressing.


----------



## fashion_victim

Ah ha! Got it. Thank you sir.


----------



## The Rambler

Cardinals5 said:


> After - with the chili edges


Beautiful, Cards.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

University stripe oxford and a pinstripe suit? This photo from the "Trad Men" thread made me think of it:


----------



## Jovan

Sure, why not? It'd be a good look with a grenadine or emblematic tie.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
LOL...but the knot on that fellow's String Tie has just gone terribly, terribly wrong!


----------



## Jovan

I'm not sure what's going on in that picture, but it's amusing.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

He appears moments away from another sad case autoerotic asphyxiation.

Not that there's anything wrong with that....


----------



## Taken Aback

Lilliputians wanted to flip his outfit. There's only so much copper out there.


----------



## straw sandals

"It's called power clashing, and I do it because I can."


----------



## zightx

How is J.Press sport coats sizing? Tried to ask them but havn't received any measurements yet. I'm 38R, anyone got a shoulder width measurement of a relative new J.Press jacket?

Is J.Press generally true to size?


----------



## The Rambler

WouldaShoulda said:


> He appears moments away from another sad case autoerotic asphyxiation.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with that....


Of your many snide and sardonic comments, Woulda, that's the funniest :icon_smile_big:


----------



## leisureclass

straw sandals said:


> "It's called power clashing, and I do it because I can."


My fiance usually says this to me anytime I wear something that doesn't match, great line, great show.


----------



## hookem12387

zightx said:


> How is J.Press sport coats sizing? Tried to ask them but havn't received any measurements yet. I'm 38R, anyone got a shoulder width measurement of a relative new J.Press jacket?
> 
> Is J.Press generally true to size?


Usually boxy, but I'd bet someone around here has a recent shoulder measurement for you. It'd help if you'd say which jacket, though, they have a few that are slimmer.


----------



## zightx

hookem12387 said:


> Usually boxy, but I'd bet someone around here has a recent shoulder measurement for you. It'd help if you'd say which jacket, though, they have a few that are slimmer.


Both jackets I'm intrested in is sack cut.

https://www.jpressonline.com/sale_sportcoats_detail.php?id=J13025P

https://www.jpressonline.com/blazers_navy_detail.php?id=J40192-3BN


----------



## Jovan

Reports of recent J. Press coats say that the shoulders aren't quite as soft or minimal as they used to be.


----------



## Sir Cingle

zightx said:


> How is J.Press sport coats sizing? Tried to ask them but havn't received any measurements yet. I'm 38R, anyone got a shoulder width measurement of a relative new J.Press jacket?
> 
> Is J.Press generally true to size?


I find that J. Press jackets are cut a little bit big. I typically wear a 43L, but at Press a 42L almost always fits.


----------



## Trip English

Jovan said:


> Reports of recent J. Press coats say that the shoulders aren't quite as soft or minimal as they used to be.


I've only been buying J.Press jackets for a little while now and haven't personally come across vintage models, but it's highly unlikely that they would have acquired the description of "natural shoulder" had they been cut this way since the olden days.

I've sort of come to terms with the modern cut of press jackets, but it's only because I'm convenient (kind of) to two stores and they're a reliable source of dozens of styles of sack coats every season. So I'll just stuff my complaints in a sack.


----------



## dnfuss

*Maus & Hoffman Short-Sleeve Cotton Batiste Pajamas*

I love mine. They are IMHO the best summer pjs going. I have four pair, two white and two blue, but they're really beginning to show their age. I'd like to get more, but money's tight and they've gone up to $135 a pair! If I knew who made them maybe I could find them for less, but I have no idea. Maus & Hoffman have them made for them with no manufacturer name, RN number, etc., they just say "Made in USA." So OK, here they are:

Who makes them?


----------



## leisureclass

Mother of Pearl Buttons on a Blue Blazer? Blasphemy? Or Great Idea?


----------



## Valkyrie

> Mother of Pearl Buttons on a Blue Blazer? Blasphemy? Or Great Idea?


I think they look great, even best, on summery blazers, particularly those made of cotton or linen. Not over the edge, but you can see the edge from there.


----------



## hookem12387

leisureclass said:


> Mother of Pearl Buttons on a Blue Blazer? Blasphemy? Or Great Idea?


I like it. Especially on linen. When i finally dye a madras jacket I have blue, mop buttons will go on


----------



## leisureclass

More summery blazers make sense. I was asking because I just came into a medium weight all around blue blazer, like the type that usually has gold buttons, however this one doesn't, it has buttons that badly need to be changed and I just remembered I have a salvaged MOP set from a blazer that was sent to the heap. Would that work?


----------



## hookem12387

Lay the buttons on the jacket, looks good? Do it if so. I'd think you'd be great so long as you had texture to the jacket


----------



## Jovan

hookem12387 said:


> I like it. Especially on linen. When i finally dye a madras jacket I have blue, mop buttons will go on


 Why are you dyeing it blue?


----------



## GentlemanGeorge

Probably not a question that many are going to find relevant, but does anyone know who makes or has made H. Stockton's made in England shoes? I can post a few pics in a bit.

Combination heel and channeled soles:


----------



## hookem12387

Jovan said:


> Why are you dyeing it blue?


Because I want a solid navy madras jacket. Can't seem to buy one so I'm gonna make it


----------



## TartanRetriever

Hi all.

I have inherited from my father (who is deceased) a two-tone Datejust. I plan on wearing the watch in his honor. Unfortunately, I can't stand the look of the two-tone. Anyone have any suggestions for toning it down? I'm thinking about losing the band and going with a simple navy grosgrain strap.


----------



## hookem12387

TartanRetriever said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I have inherited from my father (who is deceased) a two-tone Datejust. I plan on wearing the watch in his honor. Unfortunately, I can't stand the look of the two-tone. Anyone have any suggestions for toning it down? I'm thinking about losing the band and going with a simple navy grosgrain strap.


 My dad has the same watch (gold faced) that I'll likely get from him sooner rather than later, since he doesn't wear it much. I've thought perhaps a leather or croc band? I'm honestly not sure, I similarly would feel uncomfortable with all the gold "bling"


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

hookem12387 said:


> Because I want a solid navy madras jacket. Can't seem to buy one so I'm gonna make it


I'm intrigued.

What size are you?


----------



## hookem12387

I'm a 40/41L. 

Does anyone know the best value for a quilted jacket! Something like a Barbour liddesdale (maybe that does represent the best value), but maybe a bit slimmer? Mostly because our weather doesn't demand a lot of layering


----------



## leisureclass

I've read great things about Lavenham quilted jackets, never seen one in real life though. If you size down in the Liddesdales they will look decently slim.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

hookem-
I was looking for the same thing around this time last year.
Polo has some nice quilted jackets, I've seen them fairly cheap at Marshals/TJ Maxx near the end of the season. They're also fairly abundant on ebay, watch out for the thinner, logo'd ones though.


Check out ebay.co.uk as well, the shipping is higher and the exchange rate isn't great, but even taking all that into account some Barbours end up going for quite a bit cheaper there. I didn't find one in my size and desired color, but remember seeing quilted Barbours going for less than 20 pounds.


----------



## TartanRetriever

That's a great suggestion. Here's the look (not my watch):
https://forums.watchuseek.com/f222/strap-recommendations-two-tone-datejust-316570.html#post2367481

I've got it in a white face with roman numerals, which I think will also tone it down.


----------



## zightx

hookem12387 said:


> I'm a 40/41L.
> 
> Does anyone know the best value for a quilted jacket! Something like a Barbour liddesdale (maybe that does represent the best value), but maybe a bit slimmer? Mostly because our weather doesn't demand a lot of layering


Have you checked out the different fits? The original fit is really boxy but the never ones are pretty slim.


----------



## dnfuss

*Maus & Hoffman Short-Sleeve Cotton Batiste Pajamas*

Anyone?



dnfuss said:


> I love mine. They are IMHO the best summer pjs going. I have four pair, two white and two blue, but they're really beginning to show their age. I'd like to get more, but money's tight and they've gone up to $135 a pair! If I knew who made them maybe I could find them for less, but I have no idea. Maus & Hoffman have them made for them with no manufacturer name, RN number, etc., they just say "Made in USA." So OK, here they are:
> 
> Who makes them?


----------



## hookem12387

leisureclass said:


> I've read great things about Lavenham quilted jackets, never seen one in real life though. If you size down in the Liddesdales they will look decently slim.


The problem then becomes my monkey arms.

Tartan, that's a great look. How I'd hoped it would look! How often does that work out?


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

hookem12387 said:


> The problem then becomes my monkey arms.
> 
> Tartan, that's a great look. How I'd hoped it would look! How often does that work out?


It's not just you, Barbours have ridiculous short arms.


----------



## eris

Can someone help ID these Allen Edmonds?


----------



## Cardinals5

They must be some kind of special makeup in shell cordovan. My shell hunters guide has all the AE shell models listed and those are not in any of the catalogs as shell.

Whatever they are, they look great.


----------



## eris

Thanks, I'll post a review at the end of the month... and I'll try to get some details from the seller


----------



## hookem12387

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> hookem-
> I was looking for the same thing around this time last year.
> Polo has some nice quilted jackets, I've seen them fairly cheap at Marshals/TJ Maxx near the end of the season. They're also fairly abundant on ebay, watch out for the thinner, logo'd ones though.
> 
> Check out ebay.co.uk as well, the shipping is higher and the exchange rate isn't great, but even taking all that into account some Barbours end up going for quite a bit cheaper there. I didn't find one in my size and desired color, but remember seeing quilted Barbours going for less than 20 pounds.


Thanks, I'd somehow missed this post at first. I'll check it out.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I was going to pm you this:


----------



## leisureclass

that is quite a price.


----------



## hookem12387

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I was going to pm you this:


Wow, thanks. Thank goodness it would have been too small for me, anyhow. I'd have kicked myself for missing that one


----------



## philip in china

I have a Chrities fur felt hat which is a 7 1/8 (UK size) a Moss Bros Bowler which is a 7 1/4 and a pure wool hat again by Christies which is a 7 3/8. They all fit perfectly yet some 7 3/8 are far too big for me. I want to order a couple more bowlers by post. For which size should I elect? They will not be from Moss Bros as they do not have the colours I want.


----------



## Jovan

Hat sizes can vary a bit from one maker to the next. Maybe you should contact the makers with your head circumference where you wear the hat and see what they recommend.


----------



## pistolandrapier

*POLY TIES*

Anybody know a source for cheap, polyester ties like this one from Lands End?:

Looking for similar striped knock around ties in polyester, this one above seems to do the trick, but I get bored of the same two colors, looking for a little variation. Maybe yellow and burgundy or yellow and blue? Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## leisureclass

If you want 'knock around' ties, go to any thrift store on the planet and you'll be spending 75% less on probably higher quality stuff than the linked tie. That's my 2 cents anyway.


----------



## KJD89

I've got a pair of brown chinos that I've had for a while, but have never worn them out. I can't figure out what shoes to wear with them - any suggestions of colour and style?
I'm sure the answers will be obvious.


----------



## Wisco

KJD89 said:


> I've got a pair of brown chinos that I've had for a while, but have never worn them out. I can't figure out what shoes to wear with them - any suggestions of colour and style?
> I'm sure the answers will be obvious.


A brown shoe of a darker brown than the trousers is a traditional choice. If the color is quite dark brown, you can also try a light brown (English Tan) for a more rakish summer look. A chino is a more casual trouser, so perhaps a PTB or even a Longwing if you have them.


----------



## KJD89

Would it look off to wear burgundy pennys with them? A darker burgundy, of course.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The burgundy pennys should be fine.


----------



## Jovan

If I may gentlemen, I don't think one should purchase ties solely for "knocking around" in. If everyone here did that then eventually we'd never wear any of our good things!



pistolandrapier said:


> *POLY TIES*
> 
> Anybody know a source for cheap, polyester ties like this one from Lands End?:
> 
> Looking for similar striped knock around ties in polyester, this one above seems to do the trick, but I get bored of the same two colors, looking for a little variation. Maybe yellow and burgundy or yellow and blue? Any help would be appreciated.





leisureclass said:


> If you want 'knock around' ties, go to any thrift store on the planet and you'll be spending 75% less on probably higher quality stuff than the linked tie. That's my 2 cents anyway.


----------



## leisureclass

I agree entirely Jovan, my point was more that 20 bucks plus shipping for a 100% poly tie seems a little silly to me, and that you don't have to be as careful with thrifted ties as you do with ties that you pay full freight for. Not that I really ever buy ties new, but you know what I mean.


----------



## Jovan

Sure, but even my thrifted ties I try to take care of. In fact, I'm going to try cleaning some of them with one of those supposed wonder cleaners specially formulated for silk ties. I'll let everyone know if that actually goes well or not...

But more to the point, I don't think one should buy clothing and accessories solely for getting drunk/"seducing" women/getting in fights.


----------



## leisureclass

Aren't those the 3 reasons everyone buys everything? (I also wasn't saying I don't take care of my thrifted ties)


----------



## pistolandrapier

*ANYBODY?

POLY TIES*

Anybody know a source for cheap, polyester ties like this one from Lands End?:

Looking for similar striped knock around ties in polyester, this one above seems to do the trick, but I get bored of the same two colors, looking for a little variation. Maybe yellow and burgundy or yellow and blue? Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Jovan

I believe we already responded to your question.


----------



## Cardinals5

pistolandrapier said:


> Anybody know a source for cheap, polyester ties.


Is it really that difficult to find polyester ties in NY? Try any of your mass-market box stores - WalMart, Target, etc. and they'll have plenty of what you seek.


----------



## hookem12387

Brooks next sale, is it f&f in October? Thanks, all


----------



## leisureclass

Ethics of thrifting question: If I found a beautiful BB grey seersucker suit at a thrift (with all the trad details), but it was slightly yellowing in places, 1, would dry cleaning fix the yellowing? 2, Should I only buy the jacket if the yellowing on the pants is slightly more suspicious and the zipper is broken? Or does that ruin the jacket because of all the odd jacket rules?


----------



## CMDC

I assume that the price is going to be the same if you buy just the jacket or the whole suit. I doubt they'd knock down the price and keep the pants. Thus, buy it all and see if the drycleaning fixes the stain. If not, you've still got the jacket. I generally don't like the odd jacket look--I agree with the rules--but w/seersucker you may be ok.


----------



## leisureclass

It's a rather large Goodwill, I doubt the clerks would notice the missing pants, and would probably charge the standard jacket price. Seersucker does seem to fall into somewhat of a gray area, as for odd jacket rules, that's why I wanted to ask. Thanks.

(Not that I'm trying to screw them out of a couple bucks on purpose, I just wouldn't want to buy something unusable)


----------



## WouldaShoulda

leisureclass said:


> (Not that I'm trying to screw them out of a couple bucks on purpose, I just wouldn't want to buy something unusable)


Consider it a "donation" please


----------



## eagle2250

^^
+1. Just buy the ss suit. Should the pants not clean up, to your satisfaction, discard them and enjoy the jacket. Ethical dilemma resolved!


----------



## leisureclass

Thanks guys, you're all right, it's only a couple bucks difference. I couldn't make it today, so hopefully no one snagged it, and it'll still be around tomorrow.


----------



## leisureclass

I went back this afternoon, and of course it was gone. But, upon further hunting, the pants were left behind by whoever bought it. I guess the rest of the world doesn't have the ethics of you gentlemen.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Such a sad state of affairs it is... 

I'm just giving up and robbing a blind woman on the way home for beer money!!


----------



## hardline_42

pistolandrapier said:


> *ANYBODY?
> 
> POLY TIES*
> 
> Anybody know a source for cheap, polyester ties like this one from Lands End?:
> 
> Looking for similar striped knock around ties in polyester, this one above seems to do the trick, but I get bored of the same two colors, looking for a little variation. Maybe yellow and burgundy or yellow and blue? Any help would be appreciated.


Is it the "cheap" that you want, or the "poly?" If you're willing to pay $19.50 for a polyester tie, why not pay $15 for a silk one? The Tie Bar has a bunch of silk repp regimentals in different widths and lengths all for $15.


----------



## KJD89

Does anyone know the name of those bomber-like jackets with the zip fronts? As seen on the far left here. If you could point me to where I could purchase one, that'd be great too. I'm not sure if this would be the right place to ask about it, but I figured I'd give it a go.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

I have a made in USA LaCoste baracuda jacket that looks lik ethis RL model only with a little green alligator on it.


----------



## hardline_42

KJD89 said:


> Does anyone know the name of those bomber-like jackets with the zip fronts? As seen on the far left here. If you could point me to where I could purchase one, that'd be great too. I'm not sure if this would be the right place to ask about it, but I figured I'd give it a go.


Those are called "baseball jackets." from Band of Outsiders looks like a decent (although fashion forward and probably way overpriced) match.


----------



## Taken Aback

I gave LE a call a few days ago, about an item with conflicting details, and was transferred to a personal shopper who was able to give me the specifics. Well, since I had her on the phone, I reiterated how confusing the _aforementioned_ depiction of their boat shoes' lacing was. While she spoke, she went and grabbed a pair and said the previous rep was wrong; they _did_ feature functional lacing. I now despair buying a car, if I can be talked into a purchase so easily, as I just went and bought them. If anyone still gives a damn (or ever did), I'll post if it's true when I get them.


----------



## Cardinals5

hardline_42 said:


> Those are called "baseball jackets." from Band of Outsiders looks like a decent (although fashion forward and probably way overpriced) match.


Yep, baseball jacket. Here's a vintage one from Brooks on etsy that might suit. $70 shipped








https://www.etsy.com/listing/766177...ed=Brooks+brothes&ga_search_type=all&ga_facet=


----------



## Jovan

If only it were my size...


----------



## unmodern

Just a quick question---I found a pair of black Hanover cap toes. There is no "made in..." tag. The threads on the fora seem to suggest that Hanover shoes were always manufactured in Pennsylvania, both as their own brand and when they were bought by Clarks and/or Bostonian. Anyone have experience with this 'Hanover : since 1899' tag? Are these likely to be decent quality? Made in US? They have leather soles and rubber heels. Any info is appreciated.


----------



## Welch2ndWest

I was always under the impression that silk knit ties were summer ties. Is this true, or should I keep my new navy tie out for the fall?


----------



## C. Sharp

I do not see a reason why you can not wear it all year.



Welch2ndWest said:


> I was always under the impression that silk knit ties were summer ties. Is this true, or should I keep my new navy tie out for the fall?


----------



## CMDC

^ I agree. Knits add a nice texture that can work well with tweeds, flannels, and other cold weather attire. Plus, if you get stuck in a snowstorm without your hat, you can tie it around your head to warm your ears.


----------



## Sir Cingle

Unless a knit tie has very summery colors, I don't see why you couldn't wear it year-round.


----------



## Welch2ndWest

C. Sharp said:


> I do not see a reason why you can not wear it all year.


Nice to know. Thanks!



CMDC said:


> ^ I agree. Knits add a nice texture that can work well with tweeds, flannels, and other cold weather attire. Plus, if you get stuck in a snowstorm without your hat, you can tie it around your head to warm your ears.


 HAHAHA! I'll try to do that next time I am stuck waiting for the T in a snow storm.



Sir Cingle said:


> Unless a knit tie has very summery colors, I don't see why you couldn't wear it year-round.


Thanks for your input. That seems to make sense. I have several wool knit ties that I use during colder months, but now I will rock my navy silk knit tie during the fall.


----------



## Charles Saturn

Rambler mentioned that his new Alden loafers were unwelted and a not long ago someone else mentioned some longwings, if I am not msitaken, that had a reverse welt. I need to be educated in the area of welted unwelted and reverse welted shoes. Thanks


----------



## eris

I recently came across a suit from The Andover Shop in the most unlikely of places (thrift shop in small-town Europe) and am slightly puzzled - it's a two-button darted number with double vents. 
Could someone more knowledgeable than me please advise as to whether this is a common offering at the Andover Shop?


----------



## hardline_42

Charles Saturn said:


> Rambler mentioned that his new Alden loafers were unwelted and a not long ago someone else mentioned some longwings, if I am not msitaken, that had a reverse welt. I need to be educated in the area of welted unwelted and reverse welted shoes. Thanks


In shoe construction, a welt is a strip of material that is sewn both to the underside of the upper and the outsole at the shoe's perimeter. It joins the two parts of the shoe.

On a moccasin-constructed loafer, a single piece of leather goes completely under your foot and also forms the sides of the shoe. In this case, the outsole can be stitched directly to the leather and a welt is not needed.

A reverse welt is a welt that has been split lengthwise through about half of it's width. Essentially, it's a welt with an extra "leg" that runs the entire perimeter of the shoe. This extra leg is folded up and sewn against the side of the shoe for better water-resistance.

This is a welted shoe. You can see the stitching at the perimeter which attaches the welt to the outsole. The line of stitching that attaches it to the upper is hidden inside the shoe.

This is an unwelted shoe. The line of stitching on the outsole is clearly visible on the underside, but it is stitched directly to the upper, so no stitched welt is visible from above.

is a split-reverese welt (more like a storm welt) where the outer portion of the welt is split and top-most half is turned up against the shoe and then trimmed while the lower half is stitched to the outsole.


----------



## hookem12387

Shockingly, the footwear thread turns up no results for Wolverine's 1000 mile boots, which I think have a pretty classic look. I was just wondering of anyone here has experience with them?


----------



## Cardinals5

hookem12387 said:


> Shockingly, the footwear thread turns up no results for Wolverine's 1000 mile boots, which I think have a pretty classic look. I was just wondering of anyone here has experience with them?


In case no one else responds, the Streetwear & Demin section of Styleforum has lots of information, reviews, pics of the Wolverine 1000 mile collection, including the shell cordovan models.


----------



## hookem12387

Thanks, Cards. Not sure why I didn't think to look there. I guess SF rarely pops into my mind


----------



## roman totale XVII

Can't figure out how to copy quotes on an iPad using tapatalk, but regarding the Andover Shop question above; Dual vents and darts are not uncommon. I was in the Cambridge store this summer where, with Charlie's help, I saw many and bought a couple!


----------



## hardline_42

hookem12387 said:


> Shockingly, the footwear thread turns up no results for Wolverine's 1000 mile boots, which I think have a pretty classic look. I was just wondering of anyone here has experience with them?


I don't have any info for you, unfortunately. But I keep wanting to snag a pair for myself from Sportsman's Guide and I can never get myself to pull the trigger.


----------



## hookem12387

hardline_42 said:


> I don't have any info for you, unfortunately. But I keep wanting to snag a pair for myself from Sportsman's Guide and I can never get myself to pull the trigger.


That's where I'd seen the appealing price, as well. However, after a little SF searching it appears they don't wear in the way I'd like them to. I thought they'd do an Indy-on-a-budget job of a casual boot that still looks nice-ish with chinos, however I don't think they wear in very well for that.


----------



## Charles Saturn

hardline_42 said:


> In shoe construction, a welt is a strip of material that is sewn both to the underside of the upper and the outsole at the shoe's perimeter. It joins the two parts of the shoe.
> 
> On a moccasin-constructed loafer, a single piece of leather goes completely under your foot and also forms the sides of the shoe. In this case, the outsole can be stitched directly to the leather and a welt is not needed.
> 
> A reverse welt is a welt that has been split lengthwise through about half of it's width. Essentially, it's a welt with an extra "leg" that runs the entire perimeter of the shoe. This extra leg is folded up and sewn against the side of the shoe for better water-resistance.
> 
> This is a welted shoe. You can see the stitching at the perimeter which attaches the welt to the outsole. The line of stitching that attaches it to the upper is hidden inside the shoe.
> 
> This is an unwelted shoe. The line of stitching on the outsole is clearly visible on the underside, but it is stitched directly to the upper, so no stitched welt is visible from above.
> 
> is a split-reverese welt (more like a storm welt) where the outer portion of the welt is split and top-most half is turned up against the shoe and then trimmed while the lower half is stitched to the outsole.


Thanks for the reply. I am still a little confused with regard to a split reverse welt, but I am way ahead of the game at this point.


----------



## hardline_42

Charles Saturn said:


> Thanks for the reply. I am still a little confused with regard to a split reverse welt, but I am way ahead of the game at this point.


"Split," "reverse" and "storm" are more or less the same thing. They're more indicative of the procedure than the product. If you cut a cross-section through a normal welt at the perimeter of the shoe, it looks like a horizontal line. If you "split" the outer half of the welt, it looks like the capital letter "Y" turned on its side, with the forked part pointing away from the shoe. If you take the upper fork of the sideways "Y" and turn it up (in the "reverse" direction) you end up with a cross section that looks like an upside-down capital "T." The horizontal part gets stitched to the outsole and the upper, and the vertical part stays sticking up to form a "wall" that helps keep water out. A "storm" welt adds the additional step of stitching the vertical "wall" to the upper. You can tell a storm welt from other types because you will see , one vertical through the sole and one horizontal through the upper.


----------



## eris

roman totale XVII said:


> Can't figure out how to copy quotes on an iPad using tapatalk, but regarding the Andover Shop question above; Dual vents and darts are not uncommon. I was in the Cambridge store this summer where, with Charlie's help, I saw many and bought a couple!


Thank you!


----------



## hookem12387

Cable knit sweaters with high armholes. Go... (This is my favorite thread on this site, btw)


----------



## DoghouseReilly

eBay is where I get mine. I have had good luck with vintage Pendleton and Lord Jeff; my favorite cable knit being from the former, but I've better luck with shetlands overall from Lord Jeff.


----------



## Cardinals5

I agree with Doghouse - vintage is the way to go if you want higher armholes. Just look at a bunch of pics of vintage sweaters and you'll soon be able to judge the proportions of the armholes vis-a-vis the body.

For example - a good cable knit shetland tennis sweater with high armholes (someone should get this - NOS Braemar for Archie Brown, 44" chest)
https://www.auctiva.com/hostedimage...0716,447290662&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

Here's one with lowwww armholes - see all that bunching around the armpits - not good.


----------



## hookem12387

Thanks, y'all. This is why I love this thread so much, the collective wisdom here is just awesome


----------



## KJD89

BB ESF vs SF shirts - Are the armholes the same height on the slim fit shirts as the extra slim fit shirts?


----------



## hookem12387

KJD89 said:


> BB ESF vs SF shirts - Are the armholes the same height on the slim fit shirts as the extra slim fit shirts?


Higher on the ESFs. I think I'm going to try to size up on my next OCBDs, go with the ESF, then wash/dry hot to shrink the collar. That should give me a shirt that fits in the arms, collar, shoulders, chest and has high armholes...I hope. My normal ESF size would be too tight in the chest.


----------



## zightx

hookem12387 said:


> Higher on the ESFs. I think I'm going to try to size up on my next OCBDs, go with the ESF, then wash/dry hot to shrink the collar. That should give me a shirt that fits in the arms, collar, shoulders, chest and has high armholes...I hope. My normal ESF size would be too tight in the chest.


I've tried serval ESF and finally gave up. They are too tight in the chest for anyone who was ever done a pushup.

Slim fit works good for me and I'm pretty slender. (14.5x34) And if you're not going to wear a tie with the shirt you can size down a little if you prefer a tighter fit.


----------



## KJD89

I got 15.5x34, which fit me wonderfully when I try them on in stores...will a cold wash and hang dry allow them to keep their original size/shape?


----------



## hookem12387

zightx said:


> I've tried serval ESF and finally gave up. They are too tight in the chest for anyone who was ever done a pushup.
> 
> Slim fit works good for me and I'm pretty slender. (14.5x34) And if you're not going to wear a tie with the shirt you can size down a little if you prefer a tighter fit.


I think/hope if I size up, then shrink down it will work. We'll see. I tend to hit the same problem as you, though, with BB ESF, Gant, Rugby and a few others.

KJD, cold wash and hang dry will probably give you minimal shrinkage, if any. But I'm not expert as I dry everything via machine


----------



## zightx

I havn't washed mine cold but in 40 degrees Celsius (104 degrees Fahrenheit) and I hang dry them. They still shrink a little bit. Most noticeable in the sleeve length.


----------



## randomdude

Question: one thing I dislike about my newer BB ties is that they are stiff, much stiffer when compared to my newer J. Press ties. Any ideas (besides constant wearing over a long period of time) for how to make ties less stiff?


----------



## Trip English

I can't say I've ever had a tie change its stiffness. Stiff, thick ties that I bought ten years ago are still pretty much the same. If the BB ties aren't to your liking, I'd just seek out a different brand.


----------



## The Rambler

random: I've had that problem, and I hate a stiff tie: just make a ring of thumb and forefinger and pull it through many times, while watching tv or something: problem solved.


----------



## Jovan

Stiff ties... yeck. Ties should have drape.


----------



## KJD89

When people are talking about "1.75 inch cuffs" in regards to chinos, are they talking about a sewn in cuff (like you would see on dress pants) or are they talking about rolling up the cuff (like you would do with jeans?) or just the length of the hem?


----------



## Trip English

They're talking about a sewn cuff, though some of us don't mind a good turn-up when the hem length is right.


----------



## hardline_42

Trip English said:


> They're talking about a sewn cuff, though some of us don't mind a good turn-up when the hem length is right.


A neat turn-up on pants with flat-felled seams looks good. A sloppy roll with machine-serged seam edges is not so good looking.


----------



## ArtVandalay

So I finally find a beautiful hopsack navy blazer that fits me perfectly, and I just need to take the sleeves down about 1.5". I take it to a new tailor (my tailor recently passed away) and he says that once he lets the sleeves down, you're going to be able to see the crease, and in his words, "I don't want to walk around with a crease in my sleeves, do you? I'd say, find a new jacket." Only it's not that easy for me to find a 3/2 hopsack sack jacket that fits my oddly proportioned frame.
It's only a crease, there isn't any wear or fraying where the crease is. Is it not something I could press/steam out? I've only had the sleeves taken down on tweeds, never a solid jacket. Do any of you have an opinion from your own experience? I can include pictures if need be.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

I'm a 15.5/36 as well and have my sleeves lengthened all the time. If I look real hard, I could probably see a line on my solid jackets, but I doubt it would be visible to someone else. I might try another tailor.


----------



## Trip English

In my experience, the newer the jacket the less visible the line will be.


----------



## KJD89

How much material is needed for a sewn in cuff, roughly? Let's say it's for 1.75"


----------



## red sweatpants

Do BB outlets typically carry Clark fit chinos?


----------



## Jovan

The outlet I went to carried Slim Fit shirts, but Regent/Madison fit trousers.


----------



## hookem12387

I've seen a lot of clark fit advantage chinos. Tagged 346, so no idea about the quality.


----------



## Cardinals5

KJD89 said:


> How much material is needed for a sewn in cuff, roughly? Let's say it's for 1.75"


4.25"


----------



## Trip English

I've seen Clark at outlets.


----------



## LouB

*Advice on sleeve length, please*

How much should I have the sleeves taken up on this suit jacket? I'm wearing a 35" shirt sleeve length (which is a tad long for me) under then jacket. I have a mix of 34 and 35" shirts, if that makes a difference.

Thanks!


----------



## unmodern

^ Kind of hard to tell from that angle, but any more than 3/4 of a inch or so and it will be too short for your arm (IMO a more important rubric).

Since different armholes / shirts / sweaters / postures inevitably produce slightly different relations between sleeve and sleeve, I believe precision in the matter is a lost cause. I just have a small range of sportcoat sleeve-lengths that I find acceptable, and try to wear a consistent length in shirts. Mostly, it works out.


----------



## Jovan

35" does not appear long for you if it's covered by that sleeve, which isn't much past your wrist. Try to get it to show 1/4" of shirt cuff.


----------



## spielerman

What is the definition of "GRAIL" in a Trad context? What items would you consider to be classified as GRAIL?


----------



## CMDC

^Absolute must haves. Grab them when they're available. Do not think. Pull out your wallet. Also, an element of rarity, probably not made anymore. Norman Hilton 3/2 sack blazer; maybe Yale Coop ocbd's or suits.


----------



## Drew Bernard

^ Bass Weejuns N734


----------



## jimskelton1

Blue blazer, Black Watch trousers, white shirt- what style and color ties work with this look? Thanks for the help.


----------



## hookem12387

If you have a solid grenadine that picks up one of the colors of the blackwatch, I'd probably wear that.


----------



## C. Sharp

Assuming the blazer,trousers and shirt are all in sync, I would offer this for tie advice starting from most conservative to less. Solid color ties in any of the colors of the trousers,black,navy,dark green. I am thinking Grenadine or maybe even Irish Poplin. Some sort of dark ground emblematic in a strait or bow. Maybe a navy Churchill dot in a bow. If you are interested in a full Holiday rig you might consider adding a red English Melton vest or an old Viyella one, a bit lighter weight but only available second hand now. I am thinking that might be th most controversial recommendation. Also I am sure there are a couple of hyper minimalists who will tell you a black silk knit tie will carry you through most endeavors in life.



jimskelton1 said:


> Blue blazer, Black Watch trousers, white shirt- what style and color ties work with this look? Thanks for the help.


----------



## CMDC

^I've worn the inverse of this before (bw jacket, solid pants) and have always like a solid burgundy tie--knit, grenadine, etc. or even small emblematic.


----------



## jimskelton1

Thanks for the tips- Ive got some work to do- I just picked up a BB Black Watch 3-2 sack  One thing for sure, I will not wear the BW trousers with the BW blazer.


----------



## oldmanjumpers

Is there a bespoke shirt maker with a name along the lines of "Green & Black" "Green Black" etcetc

My manager at work is inisitent the company exists but numerous googles have yielded no results!


----------



## eagle2250

jimskelton1 said:


> Thanks for the tips- Ive got some work to do- I just picked up a BB Black Watch 3-2 sack  One thing for sure, I will not wear the BW trousers with the BW blazer.


LOL. Indeed that would be a bit too much of a good thing! Though, I do hope you enjoy that Black Watch blazer.


----------



## C. Sharp

Maybe Green & Jack https://www.greenandjacks.com/



oldmanjumpers said:


> Is there a bespoke shirt maker with a name along the lines of "Green & Black" "Green Black" etcetc
> 
> My manager at work is inisitent the company exists but numerous googles have yielded no results!


----------



## fashion_victim

I took a flier on this Southwick jacket (it was $10). Did I get an orphaned suit coat? I can't tell.


----------



## Jovan

Based on the size of the check and colour, I'd say yes.


----------



## hookem12387

Has anyone seen Clarks db's on sale lately?


----------



## ArtVandalay

hookem12387 said:


> Has anyone seen Clarks db's on sale lately?


Cheapest I've seen is on Amazon at ~$65. I've been considering picking up a pair for the fall myself. Have you ever owned a pair?


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

hookem12387 said:


> Has anyone seen Clarks db's on sale lately?


Isn't the sizing kinda weird?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
DB sizing does run a bit on the large size. Some recommend down sizing by half a size, but given the extreme pliability of the shoe's/sole's construction, I've purchased my last two pair in my normal size and inserted after market insoles to provide a more stable and more coushioned foundation to walk upon...makes for a much more comfortable shoe/boot!


----------



## Patrick06790

There's a men's store with a website. I think it's in Michigan. They have a house label OCBD that's about $20 cheaper than anyone else's. Ring any bells with anyone?


----------



## Patrick06790

Never mind. It's Bahle's, and the shirt that seemed inexpensive is an Enro non-iron.


----------



## Mossback

Post-Labor Day

Shouldn't wear poplin suits but it's damn hot here in DC. What to do, to do......


----------



## hookem12387

Billy Lee said:


> Post-Labor Day
> 
> Shouldn't wear poplin suits but it's damn hot here in DC. What to do, to do......


Wear it. Who cares. It looks like I'll be wearing madras 'till Christmas


----------



## Mossback

And air-hose?


----------



## fashion_victim

I have a 33" inseam and Brooks doesn't sell their casual pants in that length (or unfinished). If I get a 34", is it relatively easy for a tailor to take them up an inch? Will the results look ok, given that the bottoms are already finished?


----------



## M. Morgan

What's the best way to wash/clean a Shaggy Dog sweater?


----------



## AlanC

^I hand wash my sweaters on the rare occasion that I wash them at all. Use Woolite.


----------



## Jovan

Does anyone have suggestions for Sperry Top-Sider AO replacement insoles? I'm referring to that blue/brown thing that only goes 2/3 into the shoe from the heel. Mine are starting to wear out, crack, and separate from the bottom after over two and half years. I looked on their website and they don't have anything available.


----------



## hardline_42

^^ I don't see any specific factory-style replacement insoles available for boat shoes. I did find these which would be nice if you use your boat shoes in the water.


----------



## Wisco

fashion_victim said:


> I have a 33" inseam and Brooks doesn't sell their casual pants in that length (or unfinished). If I get a 34", is it relatively easy for a tailor to take them up an inch? Will the results look ok, given that the bottoms are already finished?


Any competent alterations tailor should easily be able to shorten these trousers an inch. It might be too little to work with and retain a cuffed bottom, but will certainly work for a no cuff bottom.


----------



## Valkyrie

^^My Sperry insoles always come unglued and come out after a few months of use. I just re-glue them with Elmer's glue and they work as long as the shoes last—better than new.


----------



## Patrick06790

fashion_victim said:


> I have a 33" inseam and Brooks doesn't sell their casual pants in that length (or unfinished). If I get a 34", is it relatively easy for a tailor to take them up an inch? Will the results look ok, given that the bottoms are already finished?


Get them longer so the alterations person has virgin fabric to work with, rather than something that's had the stitches taken out. Especially if they are non-irons.


----------



## jimskelton1

I thrifted a Ralph Lauren dark grey chalkstripe suit today and either it was not pressed properly at the cleaners or its a 3-2 roll. Does anyone know if Ralph Lauren ever made suit coats with a 3-2 roll? The label is in cursef and it reads Ralph Lauren in a blue rectangle box, with the same marking at the top of the coat collar with the added language made in the U.S.A. of imported fabric. It is made of 100% wool and has a wonderful hand to it. When I attempt to button the top button the material bunches and folds in the wrong direction, with the top button unbuttoned, the front rolls over the top button and button hole and disappears.


----------



## Jovan

Yep, definitely sounds like a mispressed 3/2. RL has made plenty of those and continue to, probably one of the few "fashion" brands that does. If you want to give that suit a little TLC from someone who knows what they're doing: https://www.ravefabricare.com

I've heard of many cleaners who don't seem to know what they're doing, even when you shout, "PRESS THE LAPEL TO THE MIDDLE BUTTON!"


----------



## Jovan

hardline_42 said:


> ^^ I don't see any specific factory-style replacement insoles available for boat shoes. I did find these which would be nice if you use your boat shoes in the water.


I don't, actually. It's a failing that in the over two years I've had them I've never gone on a fishing trip. Not that it makes me any more a poseur than anyone else who wears tradly outdoors gear, but still. :icon_smile_big:



Valkyrie said:


> ^^My Sperry insoles always come unglued and come out after a few months of use. I just re-glue them with Elmer's glue and they work as long as the shoes last-better than new.


Elmer's glue? :crazy: Next thing you'll tell me to do is use duct tape when the soles wear through!

I guess trying some super glue wouldn't hurt.


----------



## Valkyrie

> Elmer's glue?


I know. Low tech, but readily at hand and it worked just great. Truth is, I've used it a couple of times. Worked great each time. I can see where you might want to try something else if you are standing in six inches of water very often, however.


----------



## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> I don't, actually. It's a failing that in the over two years I've had them I've never gone on a fishing trip. Not that it makes me any more a poseur than anyone else who wears tradly outdoors gear, but still. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Elmer's glue? :crazy: Next thing you'll tell me to do is use duct tape when the soles wear through!
> 
> I guess trying some super glue wouldn't hurt.


Duct tape is ridiculous. Trads use masking tape.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Masking tape has no strength.

That's cloth bandaging tape.

Trad's get it from the Pre-Med Lab!!


----------



## hardline_42

WouldaShoulda said:


> Masking tape has no strength.
> 
> That's cloth bandaging tape.
> 
> Trad's get it from the Pre-Med Lab!!


I am humbled by your wisdom!


----------



## hookem12387

Looks like athletic tape to me, stolen from their baseball/lacrosse endeavors.


----------



## leisureclass

This takes me back to being 16 and rebuilding my chucks with duct tape...


----------



## WouldaShoulda

hookem12387 said:


> Looks like athletic tape to me, stolen from their baseball/lacrosse endeavors.


It's the same stuff but Pre-Med Lab sounds hoitier!!


----------



## Jovan

Ain't yall never heard of Shoe Goo?


----------



## hardline_42

^^ Shoe Goo wasn't invented until 1972. I know I extended many pairs of skate shoes well beyond their natural lives with that stuff.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Gentlemen,

The 4x1 DB jacket, in navy blue serge, as an odd jacket for casual wear and going to class around campus with an ocbd, chinos, and Weejuns?

Am I barking up the wrong tree? The jacket fits (it's the top of a suit, but the pants seem to be cut for wearing with braces), and because of the button stance, it works fairly well with a buttondown collar.

Your thoughts?

Thanks.


----------



## Jovan

Wear it with the rest of the suit as intended. If you want a blue jacket for wearing casually, a blazer with brass buttons is it. Especially if it's something in this style. The three buttons with lapel rolled to the middle and patch pockets will be suitably casual for khakis and penny loafers but can still be dressed up with grey flannels, long wing shoes, and a tie.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Thank you for the advice, and for the welcome. I'm honored to be here. I suppose I should have mentioned I've been lurking here for a while, just lazy about posting, so I am acquainted with some of the salient points of the trad look. I have a blazer similar to the above, an older Brooks Bros 346, but it might be too big. Not sure, as I'm unfamiliar with the 3/2 sack cut.

I was thinking more of doing this as a stopgap, until I can find a blazer I can afford that fits.

My other option, I suppose, is second helpings at the dining hall until I stop being an odd size.

Thanks again.



Jovan said:


> Wear it with the rest of the suit as intended. If you want a blue jacket for wearing casually, a blazer with brass buttons is it. Especially if it's something in this style. The three buttons with lapel rolled to the middle and patch pockets will be suitably casual for khakis and penny loafers but can still be dressed up with grey flannels, long wing shoes, and a tie.
> 
> Oh, and welcome to the forum.


----------



## eagle2250

^^


Youthful Repp-robate said:


> .....
> ......
> 
> My other option, I suppose, is second helpings at the dining hall until I stop being an odd size.
> 
> Thanks again.


LOL. Altogether, not a completely bad idea as a potential resolution for your problem. Just be sure that for every additional hour you spend in the dining hall, you spend an additional four to five hours at the gym! Put that extra weight where you want it...not necessarily where nature wants it to be. Sounds like a plan to me. 

PS: Welcome!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

eagle2250 said:


> Just be sure that for every additional hour you spend in the dining hall, you spend an additional four to five hours at the gym!


Oof. Come on now, I have to take some time to study. :smile:

That being said, it's good advice. After all, clothes are just the outer layer.

Thanks.


----------



## Danny

Going to a wedding tomorrow. Most of my bow ties are butterflies. I have a diamond point I was thinking of wearing. It this shape more casual? Is it wrong to wear a diamond point with a suit?


----------



## mhj

I just received this that I ordered from The Tie Bar (click link to view). What color shirt can this be worn with? It doesn't seem to look good to me with anything in my closet. I know it's a real classic so there must be something out there that's is worn with. I don't see this color combination out in the wild very often.

Thanks.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Well, white would work, although it might be a bit "power tie." Blue would also be a good choice, but with a caveat:

From the pictures, the tie looks to be very saturated in terms of color. It could be the tie's a bit too bright to work with your particular blue shirts. For example, a lighter, more gray-ish blue would be best.

The more experienced members of the forum can, I'm sure, offer some other tips.

Hope this helps.



mhj said:


> I just received this that I ordered from The Tie Bar (click link to view). What color shirt can this be worn with? It doesn't seem to look good to me with anything in my closet. I know it's a real classic so there must be something out there that's is worn with. I don't see this color combination out in the wild very often.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## mhj

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Well, white would work, although it might be a bit "power tie." Blue would also be a good choice, but with a caveat:
> 
> From the pictures, the tie looks to be very saturated in terms of color. It could be the tie's a bit too bright to work with your particular blue shirts. For example, a lighter, more gray-ish blue would be best.
> 
> The more experienced members of the forum can, I'm sure, offer some other tips.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Very saturated color is the word for it. Compare to Brooks Brothers gold and you can see a profound difference in color.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

-I'm looking at trying a pair of Rugby's University Chinos, the come in "classic khaki' and "British taupe" I'd normally expect the British color to be a darker tan, but it looks the opposite, is this correct?

-Has anyone tried the Polo "Preston" chino? looks like a new cut.

-Any ideas on where to buy non-elastic wool suringle by the yard? I've tried every fabric store and tack around and done some web search without success.


----------



## hardline_42

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> -Any ideas on where to buy non-elastic wool suringle by the yard? I've tried every fabric store and tack around and done some web search without success.


I've been conducting the same search and haven't come up with anything. If you don't need continuous lengths of more than about a yard at a time, you can try buying up the that Tuttle Catalog has on clearance on their eBay store.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Thanks, I'm actually looking to buy about 3 continuous yards.

Let me know if you find anything.


----------



## Jovan

Danny said:


> Going to a wedding tomorrow. Most of my bow ties are butterflies. I have a diamond point I was thinking of wearing. It this shape more casual? Is it wrong to wear a diamond point with a suit?


Nothing wrong at all.


----------



## Urbnhautebourg

This is my first post. I have been wearing traditional clothes since I found J. Press about 15 years ago. I know a lot of the rules, I know that I like 3/2 button arrangements and natural shoulders and tweed and neckties with embroidered pigs or whatever on them. But I need some help with the following (perhaps you will indulge me):

1. In August, I was looking to replace my wine/cordovan colored cap toe oxfords and the shoe salesman said that he was out of them as that color was proper later in the year--autumn and winter. That struck me as odd. I always wear that color with my blue suits and I wear blue suits all year round. Am I wrong?

2. Moleskin. I like moleskin trousers. I know they are casual. Any problem wearing them to work (workplace atmosphere being Mid-Atlantic suburban nothingness, rather than fancy pants Wall Street)? With a tweed coat? With a tie?

3. J Press Shoulders. Although J. Press started me on all of this, I really believe that the shoulders of their jackets are not all that natural, particularly the "Pressclusive" line. Can you recommend 3/2 jacket makers that might have a less padded/narrower shoulder? Southwick? Hickey Freeman?

4. Non-Iron Shirts. Have you all noticed that you can't buy a regular, non-Non-Iron oxford cloth shirt from L.L.Bean any more? Or a university stripe OCBD from Lands End? And that the alternative is to spend $75 or so to get one from BB? Or $112 to get something really swell from Mercer? How bad are these Non-Irons from LLB or LE? Should I just bite the bullet? The idea of the non-iron treatment seems so damn un-trad.

5. Khakis. I would like to hear recommendations for good value. I like Orvis and LL Bean. Bill's are nice, but they seem extraordinarily wide in the leg. Are you constantly fraying the cuffs in your khakis? 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## hardline_42

Welcome to the forum! I took a stab at your q's:



Urbnhautebourg said:


> 1. In August, I was looking to replace my wine/cordovan colored cap toe oxfords and the shoe salesman said that he was out of them as that color was proper later in the year--autumn and winter. That struck me as odd. I always wear that color with my blue suits and I wear blue suits all year round. Am I wrong?


I've never heard of burgundy/wine/#8 etc. being a seasonal color. Go with your instincts and wear it year-round.



> 2. Moleskin. I like moleskin trousers. I know they are casual. Any problem wearing them to work (workplace atmosphere being Mid-Atlantic suburban nothingness, rather than fancy pants Wall Street)? With a tweed coat? With a tie?


Casual or not, they're still "dressier" than what the average person wears to the office. I wear them the way you've described and rather like it.



> 3. J Press Shoulders. Although J. Press started me on all of this, I really believe that the shoulders of their jackets are not all that natural, particularly the "Pressclusive" line. Can you recommend 3/2 jacket makers that might have a less padded/narrower shoulder? Southwick? Hickey Freeman?


The search continues. Some members have sacrificed some trad features (3/2 roll, sack construction, single vent) in exchange for the natural shoulder of Neapolitan tailoring.



> 4. Non-Iron Shirts. Have you all noticed that you can't buy a regular, non-Non-Iron oxford cloth shirt from L.L.Bean any more? Or a university stripe OCBD from Lands End? And that the alternative is to spend $75 or so to get one from BB? Or $112 to get something really swell from Mercer? How bad are these Non-Irons from LLB or LE? Should I just bite the bullet? The idea of the non-iron treatment seems so damn un-trad.


I'm not a fan of non-iron clothing and refuse to wear it. Some members are ok with it. That being said, I've yet to hear any complaints about BB or Mercer must-irons. I'd say that biting the bullet is where it's at right now.



> 5. Khakis. I would like to hear recommendations for good value. I like Orvis and LL Bean. Bill's are nice, but they seem extraordinarily wide in the leg. Are you constantly fraying the cuffs in your khakis?


I like Bill's. I wore the M3 for as long as my posterior would allow. Now I prefer the M2 and have them pegged from the knee down.


----------



## Jovan

_Sacrificed_ some trad features! That makes it sound like a compromise, which it really shouldn't be when you're spending that much on a sport coat. The new Norman Hilton sack sport coats look and sound really nice.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...-buy-one-of-the-new-Norman-Hilton-sport-coats


----------



## Georgetown08

I'm new here, and I have some basic questions. This thread seems to be as good a place as any to ask them.

Right now I don't have many OCBDs. I used to live in the things in high school, wearing them to school every day, but over the years my stock has been depleted. I'm trying to determine where I should buy some. I've skimmed most of this thread, so I went and looked at the BB and LE websites, but I can't really find what I want, i.e., OCBDs without chest pockets. (I know RL doesn't do pockets, but I didn't like the selection and SML sizing I found on their website.) I don't know if the chest pocket is part of the "trad canon" or not, but that is not my main concern. I just don't like the pockets very much, and would prefer not to have them. (I'm pretty sure most of my shirts in high school were pocketless, but I don't remember.)

I'd like to find somewhere I can buy them online, because I haven't been able to find decent stores in Huntsville--I think the only department stores I've seen in my two months here have been JC Penny and Sears, and a google search of "Huntsville men's clothing" brings up a Hot Topic result. I also don't want to spend a ton of money on them, because I don't wear OCBDs to work. Any thoughts? Should I just suck it up and accept the pockets?


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Georgetown08 said:


> I can't really find what I want, i.e., OCBDs without chest pockets. (I know RL doesn't do pockets, but I didn't like the selection and SML sizing I found on their website.) I don't know if the chest pocket is part of the "trad canon" or not, but that is not my main concern. I just don't like the pockets very much, and would prefer not to have them.


I have some BB sport OCBD with no pockets.

Every time I go the the market and need a place to put the parking ticket I miss the pocket!!

Pockets are good. I prefer one, no flap.


----------



## hardline_42

I have a couple of casual RL OCBDs that have a pony where the pocket should be. I never realize how often I use the chest pocket until I'm wearing one of those. If you don't like the pocket, you can easily remove it from an OCBD with careful use of a seam ripper or razor blade. The holes close up in the wash.


----------



## Welch2ndWest

hardline_42 said:


> I have a couple of casual RL OCBDs that have a pony where the pocket should be. I never realize how often I use the chest pocket until I'm wearing one of those. If you don't like the pocket, you can easily remove it from an OCBD with careful use of a seam ripper or razor blade. The holes close up in the wash.


I can attest that the stitching holes in oxford cloth (as well as broad cloth) closes very well with a single wash. I have taken many pockets off of my OCBD shirts. I find that the placement of the pockets often seem off.


----------



## Jovan

If you're going to do that, PLEASE fork out a few bucks for a seam ripper. It's worth it as opposed to accidentally cutting into the chest of your shirt.


----------



## Welch2ndWest

Jovan said:


> If you're going to do that, PLEASE fork out a few bucks for a seam ripper. It's worth it as opposed to accidentally cutting into the chest of your shirt.


 A seam ripper is the only choice, and at that you still need to be very careful not to rip the shirt.


----------



## Georgetown08

I do have a seam ripper. I think I'll buy some with pockets, and maybe experiment with the ripping on one of my older ones before committing to cutting up the new ones.


----------



## hardline_42

C'mon guys, a seam ripper is NOT the only choice. It's not even the best choice but it's the obvious one. I've ruined more garments with cheap or dull seam rippers in the past than I have with careful use of a razor blade and I prefer to use one even though my wife has a fully stocked sewing room.


----------



## arkirshner

I don't know how y'all use a seam ripper, but I have never cut a shirt by using the point to take out the stitches one by one.


----------



## hardline_42

arkirshner said:


> I don't know how you'all use a seam ripper, but I have never cut a shirt by using the point to take out the stitches one by one.


The ball end goes on the inside of the seam, the sharp end stays visible, and you run it along the stitches. The grooved part is what does the cutting and the point is usually quite blunt by comparison. I prefer to do one stitch at a time and the point of a utility knife razor blade (the kind shaped like a trapezoid) held between the thumb and forefinger is perfect for this.


----------



## arkirshner

You are no doubt faster, I'm just a pocket removing tortoise.


----------



## Welch2ndWest

hardline_42 said:


> C'mon guys, a seam ripper is NOT the only choice. It's not even the best choice but it's the obvious one. I've ruined more garments with cheap or dull seam rippers in the past than I have with careful use of a razor blade and I prefer to use one even though my wife has a fully stocked sewing room.


You are more brave than I am, sir. I don't trust the steadiness of my hands with a razor blade. I am pretty sure that I would destroy a my shirts.


----------



## hardline_42

Welch2ndWest said:


> You are more brave than I am, sir. I don't trust the steadiness of my hands with a razor blade. I am pretty sure that I would destroy a my shirts.


I shave with a straight razor so I've got the blade-han'lin' skills down.


----------



## Valkyrie

Quick question: What are the names of the Allen Edmonds penny loafer models?


----------



## Patrick06790

Walden and Randolph, off the top of my head


----------



## Patrick06790

^^

3. Get thee to the thrift shop. It will take a while, but eventually you'll find a couple of jackets with the shoulder you want. Also our own Thrift exchange thread is a terrific resource.

4. Some non-irons are better than others. Non-iron oxford strikes me as silly, since oxford cloth hardly needs ironing anyway. I love my pink unistripe from Mercer, and there aren't any non-irons at Press and Andover.

5. You can have your Bill's pegged. I have several pairs (unpegged) and have never had a problem with fraying hems. It's a common complaint and it mystifies me. Wearing them a little long, maybe? 

Bean's Double L chino was my favorite. They are, alas, non-iron now. Lands End still makes a regular chino, in several configurations. They are relatively inexpensive and if you don't like them you can send them back. That's where I'd start.


----------



## Georgetown08

*Tattersall*

Trad?


----------



## Jovan

Sure, why not? Even if it wasn't that doesn't mean you shouldn't wear it. It's a classic.


----------



## Georgetown08

Good to know. I wasn't going to let a "no" stop me from wearing it, but felt like asking because I hadn't seen any real mention of it around here. It's seems like a natural fit to me.

As I said in my pocketless OCBD post, I'm not too concerned with sticking to the "true" definition of trad, although I do like a lot of the things that fall within the category.


----------



## jrrcsava

Quick question: 

I have a white V-neck sweater that I bought on an impulse. Come to find out every color except white shows up under the sweater. What could I wear this sweater with? Is white shirt, white tie, white sweater the only option? Or should I save the sweater for the rarest of occasions - unseasonably cool summer evenings? Thanks much!


----------



## joenobody0

jrrcsava said:


> Quick question:
> 
> I have a white V-neck sweater that I bought on an impulse. Come to find out every color except white shows up under the sweater. What could I wear this sweater with? Is white shirt, white tie, white sweater the only option? Or should I save the sweater for the rarest of occasions - unseasonably cool summer evenings? Thanks much!


I'd wear it with a white OCBD and no tie in the Winter.


----------



## LouB

Cameron



Valkyrie said:


> Quick question: What are the names of the Allen Edmonds penny loafer models?


----------



## DoghouseReilly

LouB said:


> Cameron


Walden and Kenwood.


----------



## KJD89

What's the most common/standard tie width when it comes to the trad look?
And is a 2" cuff all that ludicrous? I'm 6'2, and though I have a shorter inseam than most, I think 2" looks proportional on me, at least when I'm wearing chinos at my actual waist....


----------



## Jovan

There's no set in stone "trad tie width" as far as I can see. Just make sure the thickness/width of the tie is proportionate to your lapels and that _both_ are proportionate to your build. That's more important.

2" cuff is fine at your height. Just don't get into Thom Browne territory with 2 1/2".


----------



## DoghouseReilly

^^ What he said about relative widths, but the most common are 3.5 and 3.25 inches.


----------



## M Go Crimson

Does anyone know who makes Brooks Brothers boat shoes pictured here?

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ort_by=lowestPrice&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Do Alden for BB shoes follow the same sizing as regular aldens?

i.e. I size down 1/2 size in alden lhs, would I do the same in Alden for BB lhs?


----------



## Trip English

I'm wearing the unlined LHS and they're a half size down. I can't speak for the other styles.


----------



## joenobody0

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Do Alden for BB shoes follow the same sizing as regular aldens?
> 
> i.e. I size down 1/2 size in alden lhs, would I do the same in Alden for BB lhs?


The unlined shoes tend to fit different. I take .5 down on both the BB LHS and the lined Alden LHS. I can't wear the Alden version because it's too hard on the top of my foot. However, the BB LHS fits snugly but not too overly tight.


----------



## toadbra

I recently purchased a pair of Alden 563's in shell cordovan and have a question. This will sound totally anal I'm sure but the tassels on these shoes are....how do I describe.... "flowering." Without posting a photo (of which I currently can not) I'm not sure how else to describe it. 

My question is....do you store these shoes with small rubber bands around the tassels or how do you prevent this from happening? 

Thanks.....


----------



## hardline_42

^^ Personally, I like the bloomin' tassel look. If not, you can try storing them with the rubber bands. I'm not sure if the tassels are also made of shell on those shoes, but you can wet-form most types of leather with some warm water or a light soak in some watered down alcohol. After soaking, just wrap them into the shape you want and let them air dry. They should keep their shape pretty well after that.


----------



## Orgetorix

It's natural for tassels to do that. If it bothers you, try heating them with a hairdryer and then wrapping with rubber bands for a couple of days. See if that helps.


----------



## Georgetown08

What is the proper pronunciation of "worsted."


----------



## KJD89

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/worstedsays "woo-stid" or "wur-stid". I say "wur-stid", usually.


----------



## Jovan

"Woo-stid" -- only if you're from other English speaking countries than Canada or USA!


----------



## hardline_42

^^ Does this mean I should start asking for "War-cess-tur-shyer" sauce in my Bloody Marys?


----------



## Jovan

No, but there's a limit... if we pronounced everything like the Brits did, people would look at us weird.


----------



## hardline_42

*vows to stop pronouncing it "aluminium"*


----------



## Jovan

It was supposed to be the international standard, but they later declared _aluminum_ an "accepted alternative".


----------



## Orgetorix

Jovan said:


> It was supposed to be the international standard, but they later declared _aluminum_ an "accepted alternative".


Sez who? Buncha furriners, that's who.


----------



## KJD89

Inexpensive, not made in China shetland sweaters? Preferably of good quality and in a dark green, ideally....


----------



## Jovan

Not Shetland, but thick wool.


----------



## leisureclass

^^ Those don't look like Shetlands to me, could be wrong.

I would highly recommend this: https://www.fifecountry.com/mens/casual/knitwear-&-fleece/shetland-pullover-0760 -I have it in that color and in a brown, both are great.


----------



## KJD89

Thanks, I'll consider those.
Has anyone had experience ordering from Spirit Of Shetland? It seems like a reasonable price. Maybe a bulk order would be best...


----------



## Jovan

leisureclass said:


> ^^ Those don't look like Shetlands to me, could be wrong.
> 
> I would highly recommend this: https://www.fifecountry.com/mens/casual/knitwear-&-fleece/shetland-pullover-0760 -I have it in that color and in a brown, both are great.


That's why I said, "Not Shetland, but thick wool."


----------



## Steve Smith

No, but they are made in El Salavador.



M Go Crimson said:


> Does anyone know who makes Brooks Brothers boat shoes pictured here?
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ort_by=lowestPrice&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=


----------



## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> Not Shetland, but thick wool.


Also, not UK made. They're made in Mauritius and Madagascar. Not China, but not good either.


----------



## Trip English

I'm looking for some 20mm ribbon bands. Most of the ones I find at places like Central Watch, J.Crew, J.Press, etc are for 18mm replacements. I've found a limited number of 20mm, but nowhere near the color and variety. Am I missing something somewhere?


----------



## Valkyrie

^^^

You might wish to check the "NATO strap" listings on eBay, while 18 mm dominates, there is a good selection at other sizes, including 20 mms, not quite like the 18s, but still useful.


----------



## fashion_victim

Do LL Bean's sales follow a regular schedule? If so, approximately when will their next one be?


----------



## zightx

KJD89 said:


> Thanks, I'll consider those.
> Has anyone had experience ordering from Spirit Of Shetland? It seems like a reasonable price. Maybe a bulk order would be best...


Someone on the forum bought a sweater from there. Search and you should find the thread.


----------



## hookem12387

That would be Rambler with the Spirit of Shetland fair isle, I believe . . . and it looks amazing.


----------



## hardline_42

Trip English said:


> I'm looking for some 20mm ribbon bands. Most of the ones I find at places like Central Watch, J.Crew, J.Press, etc are for 18mm replacements. I've found a limited number of 20mm, but nowhere near the color and variety. Am I missing something somewhere?


Trip, I buy my 22mm NATO straps from . They have a pretty big selection and most are available in the 20mm size. Make sure to click through the different hardware options since they might bring up different color combos.


----------



## Andy Roo

hookem12387 said:


> That would be Rambler with the Spirit of Shetland fair isle, I believe . . . and it looks amazing.


A couple others bought them a long time ago. I know connemara was one, and, I believe, Tom Rath. Maybe untilted too. Do a search--their reviews came with great pics.


----------



## The Rambler

KJ, Spirit of Shetland is outstanding. Here's an example of their work:









However, for a few bucks more, look at Anderson's https://www.shetlandknitwear.com/AllOverFairIsle.aspx

They offer different patterns, but also, SOS Fair Isles have a side seam, which indicates that they are hand done, but on a frame, and the two sides are joined. The Andersons have no side seam, which indicates full hand knitting, in the lap of an experienced knitter, and is a feature usually only found on the $500 and up hand knit Fair Isles:


----------



## KJD89

Thanks for all the answers, everyone!

Maybe not a completely trad-related question, but I've seen their products mentioned/recommended on here before, and I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with ordering glasses from the website?


----------



## Jovan

Not trad? Shuron eyeglasses are probably considered quite trad here!


----------



## WouldaShoulda

I got mine thru;

https://optometristattic.com/


----------



## leisureclass

How easy/affordable of a fix is replacing a zipper on a bag? Something any tailor can do for just a few bucks, or no?


----------



## The Rambler

correct.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

There are storefront cobblers I would not trust with my shoes but would trust to sew a heavy duty zipper into a bag.


----------



## mountain twig

Hello! I guess this might have been asked before but I'll ask anyway. What do you think about putting a thin rubber sole under the leather sole? Living in Sweden and winter is coming, some say that it's not good for the comfort and the balance of the shoe and some beg to differ. Has anyone had any experience with this matter?


----------



## straw sandals

Why not get a pair of overshoes? Swims makes a beautiful and colorful line of overshoes, which will keep your shoes safe from the wet while preserving the original shoe leather for the dry season.

https://www.swims.com/#/galoshes

Of course, there are cheaper options out there, but swims are so bright as to be almost celebratory. That's the attitude I'd like to take into a wet winter.


----------



## Chloe

I'm sure this has been asked and answered several times, but I am overwhelmed by the sheer volume of information available on this website.

My husband is in need of some trousers that aren't business dress but aren't casual. He wears a uniform everyday so he is out of the sartorial loop. Any suggestions?

Thank you.


----------



## hookem12387

Chloe, welcome. Any price range? Bills are a favorite around here, but I'm not sure if you're looking for khakis or something wool.


----------



## CMDC

I think you'd find that LLBean has a lot of options in that range.



Chloe said:


> I'm sure this has been asked and answered several times, but I am overwhelmed by the sheer volume of information available on this website.
> 
> My husband is in need of some trousers that aren't business dress but aren't casual. He wears a uniform everyday so he is out of the sartorial loop. Any suggestions?
> 
> Thank you.


----------



## Chloe

Thank you. It's a fabulous site, and I've been nosing around trying to absorb it all.

I was thinking khakis. I think they are more versatile than wool for a man who usually casually dressed when out of uniform. I've checked Bills. I've heard that they are well-made. I've also looked at the BB Advantage Chinos. Even without a cuff would those work with a navy blazer, button down with no tie, and loafers? 

Thank you so much for your help. It is so appreciated.

I've checked Lands' End, but he is not a big fan of their fit. I'll look again.


----------



## CMDC

^Absolutely. Most here would probably so go with cuffs if you have the option, but not essential. Almost all of my khakis are uncuffed. Bills have three major fits--M1, M2, and M3 and they vary quite a bit so you'll want to find what fits him best, especially when you're paying what Bills cost. Similarly, Brooks has a range of cuts. LLBean also has the Double L khaki and the 1912. These will be less expensive but are solid--I think the Double L usually run about $35 or so. I think that folks here, to a man, will tell you that getting what fits is essential and that may rule out what are, objectively, the "best"' khakis.


----------



## Bjorn

mountain twig said:


> Hello! I guess this might have been asked before but I'll ask anyway. What do you think about putting a thin rubber sole under the leather sole? Living in Sweden and winter is coming, some say that it's not good for the comfort and the balance of the shoe and some beg to differ. Has anyone had any experience with this matter?


A thin rubber sole does IMO not adversely affect the balance/comfort of Goodyear welted or glued leather shoes.

Since we have salt and gravel on walkways for extended periods of time in Sweden, I consider them a necessity.

Overshoes are great for warmer climates or for leather soles shoes used in the summertime, when it rains, but in Sweden you'd have to wear them always during autumn-spring to protect the leather from salt/gravel/slush.

I have thin rubber soles on all my leather soled shoes, and it greatly increases traction when it is wet. I use overshoes or change shoes when arriving when it is warm and raining.

Make sure to use a quality cobbler to apply them. Bad cobblers sometimes sand down the sole excessively before applying it. Find a real cobbler through Sveriges Skomakaremästarförbund: www.skomakare.com. I have couple I can recommend in Stockholm or Malmö if you are interested.

The only adverse effect they have is that it's harder to dance with a partner in any dance that requires sliding your feet. The thin rubber soles that is, not the cobblers.


----------



## Chloe

CMDC said:


> I think you'd find that LLBean has a lot of options in that range.


I did check LL Bean, not Lands End. My apologies. I just placed a large order with Lands End to clothe a child who never seems to stop growing. My mind was in Wisconsin, not Maine.

I like the Double L with a pleat. But, aren't pleats without cuffs a no-no? Any thoughts?

Thank you again for your time.


----------



## Jovan

That's a myth.

Why not involve your man in the process of choosing clothing?


----------



## Chloe

Jovan said:


> That's a myth.
> 
> Why not involve your man in the process of choosing clothing?


A bit of a long story. My husband is a military officer and on rare occasions needs civilian wear for meetings. But, like the rest of the world, the standards for civilian dress in the military world have fallen. After attending his last round of meetings, he was so embarrassed by the dress of some of his fellow officers that he wants to raise his own standards...even if he seems a bit overdressed to others.

Meetings coming up soon so I'm placing some last minute orders to replace some of his classic pieces. He'll sort out the rest when he returns.


----------



## Chloe

Again, thank you all for your opinions. I'm going to leave this blog to the boys, but you were very helpful.


----------



## Jovan

Please stay and keep posting if you wish. There is also a Women's Fashion and Tailored Clothing forum here should you be interested.


----------



## C. Sharp

I have a tailoring question. If if a overcoat sleeves are to long can they be shortened and still preserve the original turned back cuff?


----------



## The Rambler

really depends how they're made, but it might actually be less tailoring to shorten from the top


----------



## hookem12387

Thoughts on this, is this collar too big? Note that I'm pulling it out as far as I can in the picture. My other Brooks 16 necks shrunk down so they fit perfectly, but the extra slim fit ones don't seem to be doing the same. Thanks all


----------



## The Rambler

too big


----------



## sbdivemaster

*whitedressshirts.com...?*

Anyone have any experience with this company?

https://www.whitedressshirts.com

They're not MTM... but neither are the standard BB shirts. :icon_smile:

Just curious if anyone has tried these. (I'm always looking for USA made.)


----------



## Mississippi

Trip English said:


> I'm looking for some 20mm ribbon bands. Most of the ones I find at places like Central Watch, J.Crew, J.Press, etc are for 18mm replacements. I've found a limited number of 20mm, but nowhere near the color and variety. Am I missing something somewhere?


A little late, sorry. American Eagle. I know it's for teens, but their watch bands are just fine, about $2.50 with a sale. One near me always has tons. On sale online all the time, too. Looking to spend money? Smart Turnout.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Mississippi - Is your AE still carrying these? Last couple times I've stopped in to check, they haven't been carrying them. I've tried two different stores in the area.
Also, I'm pretty sure those AE's are 18's.


----------



## Mississippi

ArtVandalay said:


> Mississippi - Is your AE still carrying these? Last couple times I've stopped in to check, they haven't been carrying them. I've tried two different stores in the area.
> Also, I'm pretty sure those AE's are 18's.


It's been a while since I checked, as I stocked up on a bunch last time. Look online to see if they have them- it seems to me it's a Spring/Summer thing.

Fits my watch- 20mm.


----------



## Jovan

sbdivemaster said:


> Anyone have any experience with this company?
> 
> https://www.whitedressshirts.com
> 
> They're not MTM... but neither are the standard BB shirts. :icon_smile:
> 
> Just curious if anyone has tried these. (I'm always looking for USA made.)


What a sham!

The shirts are listed as "Sea Island Broadcloth"... then when you go onto the actual page for one of the shirts it says "Sea Island *Style* Broadcloth". Stay far away from anyone who uses misleading tactics like that, even if they're based in the USA. What's next, "mother of pearl-like buttons"? I'm all for made in USA, but I won't buy from companies who deliberately mislead their customers.

Keep in mind that a brand new Sea Island cotton shirt would exceed the cost of $80 in just fabric alone.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Jovan said:


> What a sham!
> 
> The shirts are listed as "Sea Island Broadcloth"... then when you go onto the actual page for one of the shirts it says "Sea Island *Style* Broadcloth". Stay far away from anyone who uses misleading tactics like that, even if they're based in the USA. What's next, "mother of pearl-like buttons"? I'm all for made in USA, but I won't buy from companies who deliberately mislead their customers.
> 
> Keep in mind that a brand new Sea Island cotton shirt would exceed the cost of $80 in just fabric alone.


Those are some very good points, Jovan. I appreciate the input.


----------



## Jovan

Inquired about this on their website. Received the following email. I'm still not so sure._

Dear Xxxxx
_
_We have been in business for over 10 years now and haven't had one complaint regarding our "Sea Island style fabric..." check the web" "No negative posts"_
_ The simple reason! Our fabric is "Sea Island" but is not woven or finished in the "West Indies" as true Sea Island cotton has been historically...How we do this is our trade secret... How we are able to put out this superior quality dress shirt at this price is why we're still in business._

_Thank you for your keen sense of syle "Love your website"_
_Good Luck!_
_Sincerely!_
_Jeff Fletcher
President

1-800-605-6233
[email protected]_

If he has nothing to hide, then why "Sea Island *style*"? Seems quite weird. It reminds me of the non-official issue military clothing that is called "G.I. style".


----------



## sbdivemaster

Jovan said:


> Inquired about this on their website. Received the following email. I'm still not so sure._
> 
> Dear Xxxxx
> _
> _We have been in business for over 10 years now and haven't had one complaint regarding our "Sea Island style fabric..." check the web" "No negative posts"_
> _ The simple reason! Our fabric is "Sea Island" but is not woven or finished in the "West Indies" as true Sea Island cotton has been historically...How we do this is our trade secret... How we are able to put out this superior quality dress shirt at this price is why we're still in business._
> 
> _Thank you for your keen sense of syle "Love your website"_
> _Good Luck!_
> _Sincerely!_
> _Jeff Fletcher
> President
> 
> 1-800-605-6233
> [email protected]_
> 
> If he has nothing to hide, then why "Sea Island *style*"? Seems quite weird. It reminds me of the non-official issue military clothing that is called "G.I. style".


Thanks for the follow up.

Perhaps, now that you have a "rapport" with the Prez, you could hit him up for a sample shirt for a review on the site. Seems if he "Love your website.", he might want to have an endorsement (if the shirts are actually worthy).

Best case, you get a new shirt; worst case, you get a new dust rag.


----------



## M Go Crimson

Can anyone comment on the fit of Clarks Desert Boots? The shoebuy website suggests ordering a half size down, but I'm wary to do so because I usually wear an E width in most AE lasts. To size down from 10 to 9.5 is the question. Any help would be appreciated


----------



## nerdykarim

I would still go half a size down, despite being an E. If you had a narrow foot, I'd recommend going a full size down.


----------



## M Go Crimson

nerdykarim said:


> I would still go half a size down, despite being an E. If you had a narrow foot, I'd recommend going a full size down.


 Ordered the half size down, thanks.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Questions about shoes:

https://www.florsheim.com/shop/style/12064.html

Overall, Trad or not Trad?

Will they work with a black/white seersucker suit?

Do you prefer the Broadstreet or the Marlton? (slightly different vamp/quarter)


----------



## arkirshner

sbdivemaster said:


> Questions about shoes:
> 
> https://www.florsheim.com/shop/style/12064.html
> 
> Overall, Trad or not Trad?
> 
> Will they work with a black/white seersucker suit?
> 
> Do you prefer the Broadstreet or the Marlton? (slightly different vamp/quarter)


Dandy, not trad. 
Fine with seersucker.
Prefer the AE, better construction.


----------



## sbdivemaster

arkirshner said:


> Dandy, not trad.
> Fine with seersucker.
> Prefer the AE, better construction.


Thanks for the reply!

"Dandy", eh? Is that a polite euphemism? :icon_smile_wink:

Of course AE is going to be better construction; I was really asking about the styling of the vamp/quarter area... In that regard, I prefer the Marlton (Florsheim), but I like to see what others think.


----------



## chilton

I recently picked up a bespoke Oxxford blazer on ebay that fits perfectly, the catch is it has black buttons. I've been looking at Ben Silver buttons on ebay and the Waterbury website for replacements.

The sleeve has 4 buttons, can one or two be removed without leaving a trace? 

Also, does anyone have experience with the different Waterbury finishes?


----------



## arkirshner

sbdivemaster said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> "Dandy", eh? Is that a polite euphemism? :icon_smile_wink:
> 
> Of course AE is going to be better construction; I was really asking about the styling of the vamp/quarter area... In that regard, I prefer the Marlton (Florsheim), but I like to see what others think.


As used here, dandy is not a euphemism but a place on the sartorial wheel opposite trad, trad here being conservative. The trad wears oxford cloth button down shirts, the dandy wears windsor and tab collar broadcloth. The trad's shirts most often are are solid white and blue, the dandy's include faint pink, grey and yellow and usually have a pattern. The trad wears a 3/2 undarted jacket, the dandy a one button. And here we get to the shoes you pictured: The trad wears bluchers, the dandy wears spectators.

Its good to be a well dressed dandy, its good to be a well dressed trad. Same language, different dialects.

I also prefer the Marlton design, cleaner, less busy perforations.


----------



## dorji

chilton said:


> The sleeve has 4 buttons, can one or two be removed without leaving a trace?


You may find that a single thread secures all 4 buttons, so when you remove one they all become loose. Not that I have done this or anything like that ...


----------



## dorji

Anyone know what differentiates the three lines of [current] JPress sportcoats, besides fabric?


----------



## sbdivemaster

arkirshner said:


> As used here, dandy is not a euphemism but a place on the sartorial wheel opposite trad, trad here being conservative. The trad wears oxford cloth button down shirts, the dandy wears windsor and tab collar broadcloth. The trad's shirts most often are are solid white and blue, the dandy's include faint pink, grey and yellow and usually have a pattern. The trad wears a 3/2 undarted jacket, the dandy a one button. And here we get to the shoes you pictured: The trad wears bluchers, the dandy wears spectators.
> 
> Its good to be a well dressed dandy, its good to be a well dressed trad. Same language, different dialects.
> 
> I also prefer the Marlton design, cleaner, less busy perforations.


arkirshner,

Thank you for a very informative reply! I was speaking tongue-in-cheek about the euphemism... :wink2:

I understand and agree with most of what you wrote; however, I do think the lines between shirt choices aren't as distinct. Growing up as a trad, OCBD's solids were standard, but yellows, pinks, even a nice light peach where considered ordinary trad wear. I even have a BB OCBD in a beautiful mild green color... {sigh} I wish BB still offered the full line.

Well, at least we have similar taste in shoes; I was thinking a spectator shoe might add a bit of flair to an otherwise trad seersucker suit. Maybe not...

Anyway, thanks again for your input. :biggrin2:


----------



## KJD89

I've got a question about BB sizes - I see tags that read 15-4 or -3 and so on, and I was just wondering what the second number means? I assume the first (15 in this example) is the collar size, but what does the other one mean?


----------



## CMDC

The second is sleeve length. 4 is 34; 3 is 33; etc.


----------



## Jack1425

Lads, some advice. This weekend the bride and I will be attending a work/fraternal Christmas Party in a nice but average venue. I have decided on BB white OCBD, Hudson chinos, Argylls and shell longwings. What I cannot seem to put to rest is my jacket/tie combo. Either a BB Navy Sack with BB blue/pink stripe bow or Oxxford blazer with gunmetal buttons and A&S pattern tie. Either choice I am sure will have me better dressed than most attendee's but it's Christmas!!


----------



## WouldaShoulda

^^^

The bow may be a little more festive.


----------



## The Rambler

That's an interesting approach, Jack. I always start with jacket (or suit) and work back through shirt, tie, slacks, shoes, etc. btw, either choice sounds good.


----------



## Jack1425

Rambler, indeed that was not lost on me. Truth be told I'm trying to build up the confidence for the bow.


----------



## The Rambler

then just do it, and wear with confidence!


----------



## sbdivemaster

Jack1425 said:


> Rambler, indeed that was not lost on me. Truth be told I'm trying to build up the confidence for the bow.


I was thinking I always see more bows during the holiday season...



The Rambler said:


> then just do it, and wear with confidence!


As my Contracts professor says, "Have a take, and don't suck." :biggrin:


----------



## dorji

Jack1425 said:


> Truth be told I'm trying to build up the confidence for the bow.


Do it. Just do it. I did it :icon_smile:


----------



## Jack1425

dorji said:


> Do it. Just do it. I did it :icon_smile:


I SHALL!!

Question: flipping through the Bean catalog and took a liking to the lined chinos and the idea of a (dare I say) lined jean. Any thoughts as to wear, comfort? I am curious as to fit and wonder if they "look" lined when worn.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Jack1425 said:


> I SHALL!!


{golf clap}


----------



## sartoriallytactical

Valkyrie said:


> ^^^
> 
> You might wish to check the "NATO strap" listings on eBay, while 18 mm dominates, there is a good selection at other sizes, including 20 mms, not quite like the 18s, but still useful.


Crown and Buckle.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Jack1425 said:


> I SHALL!!
> 
> Question: flipping through the Bean catalog and took a liking to the lined chinos and the idea of a (dare I say) lined jean. Any thoughts as to wear, comfort? I am curious as to fit and wonder if they "look" lined when worn.


I've owned them and they are very warm but now you have one pant that does one thing well.

If I need the warmth now I just go the long johns and have infinate combinations available in the cold.


----------



## Jack1425

Makes perfect sense, thank you.


----------



## ColonialBoy

Guys this is what we call a 'windcheater' or 'sloppy joe' here in Australia, its a fleecy cotton winter jumper. What is the trad equivalent?



Source


----------



## The Rambler

I'd say a sweatshirt.


----------



## sbdivemaster

ColonialBoy said:


> Guys this is what we call a 'windcheater' or 'sloppy joe' here in Australia, its a fleecy cotton winter jumper. What is the trad equivalent?


Definitely a sweatshirt. ("Sloppy Joe"... lol. I like it!)


----------



## hardline_42

ColonialBoy said:


> Guys this is what we call a 'windcheater' or 'sloppy joe' here in Australia, its a fleecy cotton winter jumper. What is the trad equivalent?
> 
> Source


An American-made, high quality equivalent would be the . At 18oz., it's one of the heaviest cotton sweatshirt available. The heaviest would probably be the sweatshirts at 24oz, but they have a touch more polyester.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

sbdivemaster said:


> Definitely a sweatshirt. ("Sloppy Joe"... lol. I like it!)


Mine have seaside desitinations or names of racetracks on them.


----------



## Chloe

*Dopp kit*

Does anyone have a recommendation for a high quality leather Dopp kit?


----------



## hardline_42

Chloe said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a high quality leather Dopp kit?


Col. Littleton's .


----------



## sbdivemaster

hardline_42 said:


> An American-made, high quality equivalent would be the . At 18oz., it's one of the heaviest cotton sweatshirt available. The heaviest would probably be the sweatshirts at 24oz, but they have a touch more polyester.


Champion used to be the champion, but now it's all flimsy off-shore product.

That Kelsport looks very nice; made in USA is always a plus! Fruit of the Loom does have a 20 oz 90/10:

However, doesn't seem to be sold in the USA (might find a Canadian retailer online); I suspect it's not manufactured here either.


----------



## hardline_42

sbdivemaster said:


> Champion used to be the champion, but now it's all flimsy off-shore product.
> 
> That Kelsport looks very nice; made in USA is always a plus! Fruit of the Loom does have a 20 oz 90/10:
> 
> However, doesn't seem to be sold in the USA (might find a Canadian retailer online); I suspect it's not manufactured here either.


I remember Champion in its hey-day as well. Camber is also a USA-made product but it's a 90/10. The Kellsport is the only one I know that's 95/5. It's a beast of a sweatshirt and not the least bit "slim." The armholes are big enough to flip the sweatshirt over and wear it as pants. That being said, it's the only thing I'd want to put on over a tattered OCBD and some old khakis to play catch or toss around a football in cool weather.


----------



## sbdivemaster

hardline_42 said:


> I remember Champion in its hey-day as well. Camber is also a USA-made product but it's a 90/10. The Kellsport is the only one I know that's 95/5. It's a beast of a sweatshirt and not the least bit "slim." The armholes are big enough to flip the sweatshirt over and wear it as pants. That being said, it's the only thing I'd want to put on over a tattered OCBD and some old khakis to play catch or toss around a football in cool weather.


I always wanted one of the lettered, heavy Champion sweatshirts from my university, but at $100+ (in 1980's dollars), they were out of my price range. After seeing the Kellsport, and checking around for tackle twill lettering, I could make my own (I'm proficient with a sewing machine) for under $80 today; I could even add some smaller letters (maybe on the sleeve?) to spell out "ALUMNI".
Hmm, pondering... :idea:


----------



## M Go Crimson

Recently acquired a pair of Red Wing Wabasha Chukkas... do I shoe tree these or don't bother?

Somewhat regretting not making it over to Jos A Bank to stock up on trees these past few days


----------



## Patrick06790

^I would. I use trees in everything except sneakers and boat shoes, etc.


----------



## dorji

dorji said:


> Anyone know what differentiates the three lines of [current] JPress sportcoats, besides fabric?


Patrick, can you answer this??


----------



## Patrick06790

No idea, sorry.


----------



## M Go Crimson

Patrick06790 said:


> ^I would. I use trees in everything except sneakers and boat shoes, etc.


Guess I should... especially considering I tree my boat shoes.


----------



## Jovan

M Go Crimson said:


> Recently acquired a pair of Red Wing Wabasha Chukkas... do I shoe tree these or don't bother?
> 
> Somewhat regretting not making it over to Jos A Bank to stock up on trees these past few days


Try these for non-dress boots:


----------



## dorji

Patrick06790 said:


> No idea, sorry.


Thanks anyway :icon_smile:


----------



## Stuart

Where can I find more information and pictures (no suits but business casual or casual wear) on clothing for short guys?


----------



## M Go Crimson

Jovan said:


> Try these for non-dress boots:


Thanks, Jovan. I'll order a pair the next time I get something from AE. These seem more appropriate for a boot as unstructured as the chukkas.


----------



## Urbnhautebourg

dorji said:


> Anyone know what differentiates the three lines of [current] JPress sportcoats, besides fabric?


About 3 or 4 years ago, as I was trying on a "Pressclusive" [I always thought these designations sounded goofy] tweed, I mentioned that I thought that the shoulders were a bit too wide. The salesman at J. Press in D.C. said that I should try the "Presstige" tweed, as the shoulders were narrower. I thought he was just trying to up-sell me, but after trying it on, I could see he was right. I asked him why the difference and he explained that they came from two different manufacturers, one in Canada and one in New England. So it's really as if you are dealing with completely different jackets--not just the fabrics, but the cut and style is different.


----------



## Hackett

Does anybody know if or when BB is going to restock the Alden tassel loafers? I bought a pair in brown that were one size too wide, but now they don't have the size I need anymore.


----------



## Orgetorix

^ If anyone would know, it might be the folks in the shoe department at 346, but they might not even know. If I were you, I'd return the shoes and get a refund or store credit. If you wait until they're restocked, it's possible you could have trouble getting them to do the exchange if it's been too long. Maybe not, though, since it's a common stock item that doesn't change.


----------



## Hackett

I wasn't going to try to return them, despite what I've heard about their generous return policy. I wore them to work about six times before I figured out that they just weren't going to fit. I'd been holding out hope that either heel inserts or tongue inserts would solve the fit issue once they'd broken in. Just going to chalk that one up to experience and sell them online. 

Thanks for the tip about calling 346.


----------



## ColonialBoy

Guys, shipping to Australia is a killer. The only place with decent shipping is amazon, the rest are $30-$40. This site is having a 70% off sale https://www.josbank.com with $40 shipping to Australia, is there any trad there worth buying or is it the usual chinese junk?
(and no this is not spam, I've signed up to a number of menswear sites, ralph lauren & brooks brothers dont ship to australia)


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I wouldn't say that there's anything there worthwhile. That is, at that end of the market you might as well shop someplace more local to you, since they make very generic clothes to a very low quality. Also, a 70% off sale is not at all uncommon there. In fact, you'd have to have pretty good timing to ever catch their merchandise at full price. 

There is a thread about their camel-hair overcoats on the front page of this forum that says all that needs to be said about Jos. A Bank.

There are probably PRL stores somewhere on your continent, and they may be either close enough that you can reach them or willing to ship to you. That could be a good option if you have your heart set on some Lauren item.


----------



## M Go Crimson

What are the chances of me fitting into a jacket that's 49'' with a 52'' chest? Good, right?


----------



## Tilton

M Go Crimson said:


> What are the chances of me fitting into a jacket that's 49'' with a 52'' chest? Good, right?


My sources say: EXCELLENT.


----------



## ColonialBoy

I know what pima & pique really mean, but do they effectively mean 'thick luxurious garment'.

eg https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280615797722&vti=color arctic+blue size 6xl&ssPageName=ADME:L:COSI:US:1123


----------



## sbdivemaster

ColonialBoy said:


> I know what pima & pique really mean, but do they effectively mean 'thick luxurious garment'.
> 
> eg


5.3-ounce is kinda thin; also, the fabric is knit, not pique.

Have you seen the King Louie Nationals?

https://allusaclothing.com/king_louie_j4500_national_sport_shirt_made_in_usa.aspx
*EDIT:* I just noticed that the placket on the PA shirts seems kinda long - I dunno, just a preference thing...


----------



## Jovan

Pique is a term applied to knits as well.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Jovan said:


> Pique is a term applied to knits as well.


Yes, I should have been more specific. From looking at the manufacturer's site, those shirts appear to be an interlock knit (sometimes called "Jersey" - but that's technically different than "interlock"):

https://www.portauthorityclothing.com/servlet/portAuthority?cat=Port-Collection&style=K449


----------



## ColonialBoy

Thanks, so this 7oz pique should be better still 

To summarise
Do pique tend to be thicker cloth (I've seen some at the local mall that feel thicker than average polos)?
Pima tend to mean a silkier cloth but not necessarily thicker?


----------



## sbdivemaster

ColonialBoy said:


> Thanks, so this 7oz pique should be better still
> 
> To summarise
> Do pique tend to be thicker cloth (I've seen some at the local mall that feel thicker than average polos)?
> Pima tend to mean a silkier cloth but not necessarily thicker?


Pima is a type of cotton:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pima_cotton

The fibers are longer, more durable and softer than other species, but it can be made into any textile that other cottons are used for.

Yes, pique knit will give the cloth more volume, but may not necessarily affect the weight. Pique has that rough kinda texture:

Whereas, an interlock knit will be very smooth (both inside and out):

You'll also hear about Jersey knit; it's essentially a one-sided interlock. Look at your basic t-shirt - on the outside it's smooth, but you'll notice the inside of the material is just a bit rougher (this is all on a pretty small scale, so it might not be immediately noticeable)

That 7-ounce looks nice; the placket is higher - I like it. Not sure about shipping to Oz, but when I was trying to find out more about the Stedman, I came across some better pricing:

https://www.gotapparel.com/p-3_30-hanes-stedman-pique-polo.aspx

(That was only the second site I looked out, so you might find even better...)

This concludes today's lesson in textiles. :biggrin:


----------



## mhj

I won a Brooks Brothers suit on eBay for $40. It was advertised as a 46R which is my normal size, I'm 5'9"-5'10" tall. The length of the jacket comes to my finger tips with my arms hanging down at my sides. Is this within acceptable range for a BB cut of suit? I see longer lengths on people wearing double breasted suits but I'm not sure about how it looks on this one.


----------



## Patrick06790

Hard to say without a photo. The fingertip thing, as a rule of thumb (hahaha), is not all that useful since it doesn't take into account the length of the arms and torso.

I am 5' 9", 33 shirt sleeve and usually 24 inch on the jacket sleeve. The useful jacket length for me is between 30 and 31.5 from the bottom of the collar - usually. A lot depends on the cut of the jacket.

So, too many variables in play to give a pat answer. Let's see a photo and take it from there.


mhj said:


> I won a Brooks Brothers suit on eBay for $40. It was advertised as a 46R which is my normal size, I'm 5'9"-5'10" tall. The length of the jacket comes to my finger tips with my arms hanging down at my sides. Is this within acceptable range for a BB cut of suit? I see longer lengths on people wearing double breasted suits but I'm not sure about how it looks on this one.


----------



## Orgetorix

Many tailors' standard starting point is half the distance from your collar seam to the floor, Theoretically, this balances the proportions of your torso and legs ideally. 

On me, that measurement is about 31.25". My jackets are all between 31" and 32".


----------



## sbdivemaster

Orgetorix said:


> Many tailors' standard starting point is half the distance from your collar seam to the floor, Theoretically, this balances the proportions of your torso and legs ideally.
> 
> On me, that measurement is about 31.25". My jackets are all between 31" and 32".


I'd always heard as a rule of finger (hahaha) that the length of the jacket should go to the tip of the thumb with arms hanging down at the sides; then I saw on here that it should be to the tips of the fingers...

However, this method seems to make the most sense. I will get out some jackets and a tape measure and experiment a bit.

Thanks!


----------



## hardline_42

sbdivemaster said:


> I'd always heard as a rule of finger (hahaha) that the length of the jacket should go to the tip of the thumb with arms hanging down at the sides; then I saw on here that it should be to the tips of the fingers...
> 
> However, this method seems to make the most sense. I will get out some jackets and a tape measure and experiment a bit.
> 
> Thanks!


The rule of thumb is that it reaches the "curl" of your fingers (not the tip) which usually corresponds with the tip of your thumbs. It's just a quick and dirty measurement, but IMO, it should cover your rear first, and then Org's suggestion about proportion can be applied if possible.


----------



## arkirshner

Hardline is right, but it is not just an opinion issue. The jacket MUST cover your rear , always. Best is a jacket that reaches the curl of your fingers while at the same time covering your rear. If, in order to cover your rear, the jacket must reach beyond the curl, that's the way it is.


----------



## sbdivemaster

hardline_42 said:


> The rule of thumb is that it reaches the "curl" of your fingers (not the tip) which usually corresponds with the tip of your thumbs. It's just a quick and dirty measurement, but IMO, it should cover your rear first, and then Org's suggestion about proportion can be applied if possible.





arkirshner said:


> Hardline is right, but it is not just an opinion issue. The jacket MUST cover your rear , always. Best is a jacket that reaches the curl of your fingers while at the same time covering your rear. If, in order to cover your rear, the jacket must reach beyond the curl, that's the way it is.


Yes, that's in the ball park of what I'm talking about; I didn't literally mean tips of out-stretched fingers. lol I agree that covering the rear is the primary consideration; that will, for most body types, put you in the thumb-finger range anyway.

Always appreciate the input, fellows. Now to find my tape measure...


----------



## zzdocxx

OK I'm going to try this question here, even though I don't know how trad it is, please bear with me.

Question: What do you think of this jacket? It is in my size. Does it look like an OK deal? I didn't bid on it last time and now they've relisted it at 10GBP less. Note the shipping is around $35USD, making the total cost at this price a little over a hundred bucks.



Not that frequent to find stuff in my size so I'm casting a wide net.

Thanks.

:icon_smile_wink:


----------



## zzdocxx

OK today is my birthday, can anyone help me out with the question above? ^ ^ ^ 

Does anyone read these stickies?


----------



## nerdykarim

It's a pretty subjective question. I were you, I'd hold out for something better. Personally, hard 3 button kills it for me.

It's definitely not trad. It's a used sportcoat of unknown quality in what's probably a decent fabric for $100. You can do much better on the exchange and probably a lot better on the styleforum B&S boards as well.


----------



## sbdivemaster

zzdocxx said:


> OK I'm going to try this question here, even though I don't know how trad it is, please bear with me.
> 
> Question: What do you think of this jacket? It is in my size. Does it look like an OK deal? I didn't bid on it last time and now they've relisted it at 10GBP less. Note the shipping is around $35USD, making the total cost at this price a little over a hundred bucks.
> 
> Not that frequent to find stuff in my size so I'm casting a wide net.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> :icon_smile_wink:


I was going to say that the darts and twin vents moves it significantly away from the realm of trad... I suggest you heed the Nerd's advice.


----------



## zzdocxx

Thanks Gentlemen, I wasn't sure this was a strictly trad question, but I hate to just open a new thread for such a small topic. That's why I posted a thread about whether a noob question and answer thread would be welcome. Someone suggested this thread, and so etc etc . . .

I appreciate your input, I liked the look of it but at the same time it is a bit much of an unknown, though as you may have noticed the seller is Bookster and they seem to be vouching for the maker, Oliver Grant. No info from a search of the forums on that either.

Also as is noted it is three button and I'm not sure how that would work for me.

On the plus side, I think for the climate here in San Diego the silk/wool blend might be nice and light-weight.

Oh I've got another question about Teba jackets, just to see if anyone on AAAC owns one and so forth. Yeah I know it is not trad, I'm just thinking out loud here.


----------



## zzdocxx

Wow, no bids the first time around, this time the bids started on the last day, 30 minutes to the end and it was bid up to $130.

That's OK, there'll be others.

:icon_viking:

Thanks for helping me out.


----------



## firedancer

^^ Teba jackets? Is that a brand ?


----------



## g3dahl

Teba jacket: an unlined Italian jacket with patch pockets. Italian trad! See Sleevehead.


----------



## zzdocxx

I think they are were invented in Barcelona and are worn in Spain, although as one of the articles points out, it is really not so different from some Italian jackets and it is not really known which came first.

This green is supposed to be one of the common colors; what I notice is that the front of the coat is cut off square. Also they say the jacket is unlined and I think they said it is often made of a knit material. So the jacket is a bit casual and also suitable for a mild climate. I have a jacket with a similar squared-off quarters but with a collar more like that of a shirt, and no turned back lapels, that I was going to scrap until I noticed the similarity.

Here's a pic of a Teba Jacket:


----------



## Jovan

g3dahl said:


> Teba jacket: an unlined Italian jacket with patch pockets. Italian trad! See Sleevehead.


Click on the post title to get a link to that article specifically. For example: https://sleevehead.blogspot.com/2007/09/bel-y-cia-update-tiba-jacket.html


----------



## chilton

What is the best way to condition an Alden #8 shell belt? 

It is a bit dry but I'm concerned about products rubbing off on my clothes.


----------



## M Go Crimson

This is a really silly question.

Browsing through the WAYWT thread, I spotted a number of sweaters over OCBD ensembles and it made me wonder how you go about removing said sweater without severely stretching it. Whenever I wear a sweater over an OCDB, or really any more "textured" cloth, I perform my best attempt at Houdini's straight jacket escape act, but fail miserably and end up with a funky looking sweater for a while.

EDIT: It occurs to me I can attempt to take both the shirt and sweater off simultaneously and then separate them. Excuse me as I go sit in the corner.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

Yes, but there are times when you might want to take off the sweater but not the shirt. I would say that a good sweater should hold its shape. I have one poorly made (but I like the shade of navy) PRL sweater from an outlet that stretches terribly. When I take it off, I just try not to pull on the collar itself and to be gentle---but I have thrown it in the dryer a few times to help it regain its shape. But I wouldn't recommend this with finer sweaters.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I'll pull up on the shoulders a bit, to get some looseness into the arms. Then I'll pull my head through the neck opening, into the chest area. After that, I pull my arms out one at a time and then pull the body of the sweater over my head. I think this works best with a sweater that is not too tight, and that has a fairly low armhole.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I wear a sweater almost daily. I have never really put that much thought into it. I typically take it on and off as the temp in my office fluctuates radically. I pull it up over my head and it usually ends up being inside out. With that being said, I don't experience much stretching and I am fond of a snug crew neck.


----------



## M Go Crimson

I try to pull my arms into the body of the sweater, but with my build and lack of range of motion in one shoulder it's pretty difficult. The BB Saxxon sweaters seem to have the worst stretching out of the sweaters I own, but thankfully they've returned to their original shape after resting. Hopefully I won't wear out the elasticity of the wool anytime soon.


----------



## Son of Glóin

Should I buy this?
https://www.yoox.com/item/YOOX/TAGLIATORE/dept/men/tskay/107180D8/rr/1/cod10/41229004RX/sts/sr_men80


----------



## arkirshner

Son of Glóin said:


> Should I buy this?
> https://www.yoox.com/item/YOOX/TAGLIATORE/dept/men/tskay/107180D8/rr/1/cod10/41229004RX/sts/sr_men80


I would be sure to get the exact measurements of this jacket before buying, especially, length in back from base of collar to hem and shoulder seam to shoulder seam. (It's certainly not a trad jacket, but if you are quite slim it could become the basis for quite a few not trad ensembles.)


----------



## Denholm

Hello! I wonder if I might ask a general question about footwear? I've been trying on many pairs of loafers but they are seeming to make my feet look comically small. I'm 5ft 9, slim and have Us size 8.5 feet, which is all pretty average, but in loafers my feet look like those of a tiny cartoon mouse, which looks unmanly to me. Is this simply the distorted perception of someone who is more used to boots and trainers, or should I be avoiding loafers? 

Cheers!


----------



## arkirshner

Denholm said:


> Hello! I wonder if I might ask a general question about footwear? I've been trying on many pairs of loafers but they are seeming to make my feet look comically small. I'm 5ft 9, slim and have Us size 8.5 feet, which is all pretty average, but in loafers my feet look like those of a tiny cartoon mouse, which looks unmanly to me. Is this simply the distorted perception of someone who is more used to boots and trainers, or should I be avoiding loafers?
> 
> Cheers!


Interestingly, in most styles the best British and Italian shoemakers try to make their shoes look as sleek as possible. You should avoid loafers if you don't like them or don't feel comfortable. On the other hand, almost all of humanity does not look at a size 8 1/2 loafer as "unmanly", otherwise they would not be made and sold .


----------



## Denholm

Thanks! Yes, I probably just don't suit loafers.


----------



## Jovan

That's one way to think of it, but ARK didn't mention that USA made shoes are made to look a little more, shall we say, sturdy. Especially Allen Edmonds with their 360 degree welt stitching. I would normally suggest Rancourt & Co. or a host of other hand stitched shoes made in Maine, but those are made to order and can't be returned if they don't work.


----------



## Denholm

Thanks Jovan! I'll maybe be in the US in summer, so I'll look around when I'm there. American shoes seem to be of far higher general quality than British shoes anyway.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Denholm said:


> Hello! I wonder if I might ask a general question about footwear? I've been trying on many pairs of loafers but they are seeming to make my feet look comically small. I'm 5ft 9, slim and have Us size 8.5 feet, which is all pretty average, but in loafers my feet look like those of a tiny cartoon mouse, which looks unmanly to me. Is this simply the distorted perception of someone who is more used to boots and trainers, or should I be avoiding loafers?
> 
> Cheers!


What kind of pants are you wearing when looking at the loafers on your feet?


----------



## jonathanbaron

I pulled out a suit coat today and found two small moth holes. Is there anything that can be done or should I throw the jacket away?


----------



## ArtVandalay

There's a thread about reweaving near the top of the first page you may was to check out.


----------



## jonathanbaron

I don't often post because I'm usually good about searching first before I ask questions. This time, my panic about the holes got the best of me.


----------



## Trip English

Denholm said:


> Hello! I wonder if I might ask a general question about footwear? I've been trying on many pairs of loafers but they are seeming to make my feet look comically small. I'm 5ft 9, slim and have Us size 8.5 feet, which is all pretty average, but in loafers my feet look like those of a tiny cartoon mouse, which looks unmanly to me. Is this simply the distorted perception of someone who is more used to boots and trainers, or should I be avoiding loafers?
> 
> Cheers!


Perhaps you're too tall and your feet are very far away from your head.


----------



## nerdykarim

Denholm said:


> Hello! I wonder if I might ask a general question about footwear? I've been trying on many pairs of loafers but they are seeming to make my feet look comically small. I'm 5ft 9, slim and have Us size 8.5 feet, which is all pretty average, but in loafers my feet look like those of a tiny cartoon mouse, which looks unmanly to me. Is this simply the distorted perception of someone who is more used to boots and trainers, or should I be avoiding loafers?


 I'd bet that the issue isn't that your feet look small, it's that your feet look small relative to the width of the bottoms of your pants. If you wear slightly slimmer pants, I suspect that you will feel more "balanced."

-also an 8.5


----------



## sbdivemaster

nerdykarim said:


> I'd bet that the issue isn't that your feet look small, it's that your feet look small relative to the width of the bottoms of your pants. If you wear slightly slimmer pants, I suspect that you will feel more "balanced."
> 
> -also an 8.5


That's what I was getting at. The proportions look fine when I'm wearing jeans or khakis. With suit pants, they look too small; I get the legs tapered a bit to make the proportions look better.

-size 9


----------



## M Go Crimson

Has anyone had experience with one of Brooks Brothers Silk/Linen/Wool blend sport coats or blazers made in Italy? The one I'm looking at on the bay has this tag on the inside:


----------



## ArtVandalay

Has anyone had any luck with removing memory wrinkles from silk neckties? If so, what was your method?


----------



## sbdivemaster

ArtVandalay said:


> Has anyone had any luck with removing memory wrinkles from silk neckties? If so, what was your method?


As a first step, try hanging from the tail end (maybe with a clothes pin attached to a hanger?) in the bathroom while taking a steamy shower.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

A little late, but I wanted to chime in. I wear a size 8 loafer and I don't think that they make my feet look especially small.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

ArtVandalay said:


> Has anyone had any luck with removing memory wrinkles from silk neckties? If so, what was your method?


I've used a steamer before to remove pretty bad wrinkles. My "method" involves evenly applying steam for a few seconds, then brushing it gently with the back of my hand to loosen the wrinkles. Just be careful not to steam it until it becomes misshapen.


----------



## Pleasant McIvor

M Go Crimson said:


> Has anyone had experience with one of Brooks Brothers Silk/Linen/Wool blend sport coats or blazers made in Italy? The one I'm looking at on the bay has this tag on the inside:


Yes, I have that exact model, and I love it. I recommend it highly. It is a good summer weight, but with enough substance that it can be worn further into the fall than a linen sport coat.


----------



## leisureclass

I thrifted a beautiful, and by the looks of it ancient, peach colored Brooks OCBD the other day. The trouble is, the sleeves are probably about an inch too long for me. Is there anything I can do? Is it prohibitively expensive to shorten shirt sleeves that much?


----------



## The Rambler

My drycleaner/alterations shop charges 10 bucks to shorten sleeves on a shirt. Just remember that the sleeve gauntlet, placket, or whatever you call it will be that much shorter. Since bb doesnt have a gauntlet button, this shouldn't be a problem if you're talking about an inch or so..


----------



## sbdivemaster

leisureclass said:


> I thrifted a beautiful, and by the looks of it ancient, peach colored Brooks OCBD the other day. The trouble is, the sleeves are probably about an inch too long for me. Is there anything I can do? Is it prohibitively expensive to shorten shirt sleeves that much?


Not sure if there's a large difference in price, but you might consider having the sleeves shortened at the shoulders, instead of the cuffs.

BTW, the BB peach OCBD is one of my favorites; BB hasn't offered that color in years, thus it's a real rarity out in the wild. Nice find, lucky you!

:thumbs-up:


----------



## leisureclass

^ Thanks guys. I was thinking that shortening at the shoulders may be the best way forward, but wasn't sure how possible that was. I really hope I can figure this out, because you're right, the peach is just perfect.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Is shortening at the shoulder any harder? I am going to have to look into this. I get shirts' sleeves shortened (Especially sports shirts) at the cuff by the lady at my dry cleaner all of the time. Usually there are no issues, but I have had the it effect the cuff negatively once or twice.


----------



## sbdivemaster

A skilled seamstress or tailor should handle this no problem. No idea what the rates in your area would be, but let's say getting some pants hemmed is $10, I can see shortening sleeves at the shoulder being in the $20-$30 range... Don't quote me on that though. heh


----------



## nerdykarim

Unless the shirt is in spectacular condition and you absolutely love it _and _you also have a tailor that you trust, I wouldn't mess with the sleeve. I would just move the cuff buttons in to make the cuff tighter at the wrist (which functionally reduces the length of the sleeve) and call it a thrift score.


----------



## LouB

I came across a pair of Alden 6881 shoes today, a full strap slip-on. The Alden website shows a similar shoe as a 681. Mine have a rubber (or similar construction) sole. Is the 6881 the same as the 681, without the leather sole?

The inside of the show notes that it has a Goodyear welt. Does this indicate that it can be recrafted?

Thanks!


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I didn;t really know where to put this, but came across this Norwegian sweater tie and thought it was neat.


----------



## eagle2250

LouB said:


> I came across a pair of Alden 6881 shoes today, a full strap slip-on. The Alden website shows a similar shoe as a 681. Mine have a rubber (or similar construction) sole. Is the 6881 the same as the 681, without the leather sole?
> 
> The inside of the show notes that it has a Goodyear welt. Does this indicate that it can be recrafted?
> 
> Thanks!


If it's a goodyear welt, it is recraftable.


----------



## RedWhite17

Can anyone provide any guidance of what type/ color of coat this is and maybe where I can find it? I have googled tan pea coat and am still unable to find it. Thanks,


----------



## zightx

RedWhite17 said:


> Can anyone provide any guidance of what type/ color of coat this is and maybe where I can find it? I have googled tan pea coat and am still unable to find it. Thanks,


The pattern is called herringbone. So try googling stuff like "brown herringbone double breasted coat"


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Someone in the Fashion Forum might have a better idea. You may try posting over there.


----------



## Trip English

Has anyone noticed a trend that corduroy jackets feel tighter than their wool counterparts, even when sized the same? I'm assuming this is to do with the nature of the material, but I'm going to measure today. I just received my 5th Polo II sport coat, the first in corduroy, and it's the first to fit differently.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Has anyone here ever had a hand-rolled pocket square made?
I found some really nice fabric I'd love to have made into a square, but am worried it'll cost a mint to have sewn properly, and I don't really care for non-rolled edges.


----------



## Bjorn

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> Has anyone here ever had a hand-rolled pocket square made?
> I found some really nice fabric I'd love to have made into a square, but am worried it'll cost a mint to have sewn properly, and I don't really care for non-rolled edges.


I've made one myself, the stitching is really simple. Should take a seamstress all of 10 minutes to do.


----------



## The Rambler

Trip English said:


> Has anyone noticed a trend that corduroy jackets feel tighter than their wool counterparts, even when sized the same? I'm assuming this is to do with the nature of the material, but I'm going to measure today. I just received my 5th Polo II sport coat, the first in corduroy, and it's the first to fit differently.


It takes a while for corduroy to relax, it'll probably feel like the others after it breaks in a little.


----------



## jcg9779

Quick question - what color shirt would go best under a medium red sweater. I plan on wearing dark jeans with them as well.

Thanks!


----------



## sbdivemaster

jcg9779 said:


> Quick question - what color shirt would go best under a medium red sweater. I plan on wearing dark jeans with them as well.
> 
> Thanks!


White. Maybe ecru, ivory, etc... The Wife says a very pale pink might work.


----------



## Christophe

sbdivemaster said:


> White. Maybe ecru, ivory, etc... The Wife says a very pale pink might work.


I second the white, and also blue stripe should look good too.


----------



## M Go Crimson

Is it ever too late to put topys or some other sole protector on a shoe?


----------



## Stuart

How does a tailor shorten the length of a sleeve?


----------



## Jovan

Can anyone tell me just _how_ slim RL Rugby knitwear is? I'm this [ ] close to nabbing a shawl cardigan from the last call sale. I usually get Medium since I have a 40" chest, but I'm tall, have a waist over 34", and wear 35" shirt sleeves. Going by their size chart, this would seem to fall into Large, but I'm afraid of it looking over-sized. On the other hand, I'm not sure I want something quite as slim as on the model.

Should I just stop worrying and buy the sweater? (A great Stanley Kubrick film.) I suppose I could always have it reblocked later...


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Get a large, I imagine they run small.

Plus, shawl collar sweaters look infinitely better when worn big. Unless you want to look like Dwayne Wade or some disney channel kid.


----------



## Jovan

Thanks, confirmed my suspicions.


----------



## KJD89

Would a pair of AE Randolph be acceptable to wear in a casual situation, or are they took dressy?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
While AE Randolfs are very nicely made and present a somewhat more refined rendition of the penny loafer design, penny loafers are always going to be appropriate with casual wear situations. Randolf's take you one step beyond and allow you to wear them in casual, dress casual and even dressy situations....truly a Renassiance rendition of a classic design!


----------



## KJD89

Excellent, thank you for the reply!
Now if I had only won the pair on ebay....


----------



## LittleSt.Melon

*Looking to buy my first suit from eBay*

Dear AAAC members,

I am a university sophomore who is preparing for the interviews I will experience within the year or the next. However since I haven't come from a particularly affluent background, my only experience with suits have been with my fathers, which I have borrowed once or twice in my life. However since I am independent now and several thousand miles away from home, it's become imperative that I obtain a suit for my own.

As I have said, however, I have very little or no experience with suits; and a small budget of around $200 too that I have to consider. I have read enough posts from these forums to know which brands to have searched for and the differences between fully canvased and fused, but not much more. I've done the searches, however, and have several suits in consideration and would very much appreciate if anyone would help steer me towards which suits are authentic and good values.

The suits in consideration:
1) A Burberry suit:
2) A fully canvased Corneliani(a bit over budget): 
3) Vintage Hickey Freeman: 
4) An L Kuhn Bespoke 3-piece Suit:
5) Another 3-piece from a tailor named "Barrister": 
6) HF Boardroom collection:

I am currently 5'8'', 155 lbs, and from chest measurements, a 39R
My chest is 39" - 21.5" from underarm to underarm, shoulder to shoulder 18", and waist 34 length 30.

Thank you!


----------



## toadbra

I am trying to decide between a pair of Ralph Lauren Singleton Calf Loafers and the AE Randolph in Cordovan from the Shoebank.

I can purchase the AE's for about $100 less and am curious if anyone would recommend the Singleton over the Randolph and if so why?

Thanks for your assistance.


----------



## Jovan

LittleSt.Melon: In this case, I think your question may need its own thread. It seems more than a quick question that would only require a quick answer and would get you a better range of opinions and answers, in my opinion. Not talking as a moderator here, just a friendly suggestion. 

toadbra: Who makes RL footwear? I'd just go with the Randolph, but it's no secret that I have a fondness for AE. Take that as you will.


----------



## LittleSt.Melon

Jovan: Thank you, it did seem to me like it was a bit long; I'll take your advice and give it a go.


----------



## hookem12387

The RL may be slightly better quality (even the stuff they farm out to AE is supposedly made to RL specs, not AE's).


----------



## AlanC

Is there a resource for dating LL Bean labels? There may be one here. I thrifted a jacket with this label today. I saw someone online categorize this as a 1940s label. Thoughts?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Christophe

What do you all think about getting cuffs on BB Clark khakis? They are the Advantage no iron type, if that makes a difference. I like cuffs, but I'm not sure if the leg opening is too narrow. Any advice is appreciated.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I am in the market (2 months away) for a blazer. One of the problems is that I am a 36 short. So far, I have found the* Jpress 100% tropical wool 3 button Sack, Center hook vent, Natural shoulder* (https://jpressonline.com/blazers_navy_detail.php?id=J40192-3BN) or the O'Connell's Navy Blazer. Any feed back would be appreciated. Also, I keep hearing about this polo II jacket, but don't see it on the site. My budget is around $600. Please help me!

I don't have a decent jacket and it is embarrassing.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

I've seen threads recently on the OC blazer and would probably buy from them before I went to J Press. They're of similar or better quality and have a lower price, if I recall correctly.

Another option would be making an inquiry on the Exchange. That would put you well under your $600 limit.

*Pro Tip: Use google.com/search?q=site:askandyaboutclothes.com/forum WhateverYouWantToFind to search the forums. I've found it much more useful than the built-in search feature.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Doghourreilly - Thanks for the response. It is very helpful.

I forgot that this BB3-Button 1818 Sack is in the runninng as well https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...id=1215&Product_Id=1489715&default_color=NavyThe upside to this jacket is that there is a BB store an hour away. I bet a 38 short would work here.

Also, anyone with ideas of wear to go for 36 short sport jacket?

Thanks for all of the help!


----------



## hookem12387

OCBD, I meant to suggest this in your pm, but try the boys' sections at Brooks and RL. I bet you find something nice for a much more agreeable price


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

OCBD, I know for a fact that the Anderson-Little blazer comes in a 36 short. I know this because they don't make one in 36 regular, the size I need. You seem to be looking for something higher end, but I'll throw A-L out there.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Thanks for the help. I might swing through the boys section of BB. I would be all over a anderson-little if I could get 3/2 roll sack. Thanks again for all the help. I really am about two months out, but I will let you guys know what I end up with.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

check the boy's section of ebay as well.
I've had a couple BB blazers/sportcoats that were tagged as both a boys 20 and a men's 38.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

And if you are seriously considering O'Connell's, give them a call. They may have what you are looking for at the store, even if it isn't listed on the web.


----------



## Jovan

oxford cloth button down said:


> Thanks for the help. I might swing through the boys section of BB. I would be all over a anderson-little if I could get 3/2 roll sack. Thanks again for all the help. I really am about two months out, but I will let you guys know what I end up with.


I guess I'm less dogmatic about this, but having tried Anderson-Little, I think it's well worth it for the price and quality level, even if it's two button and darted. I also wish they'd come out with a 3/2 sack, but it simply wouldn't be profitable.


----------



## C. Sharp

If you really like Press, Call O'Connell's they still might have some blazers with the Press tags in the pocket. They use the same supplier from time to time.


----------



## KJD89

Would it be possible for someone to take a picture of this shirt in pink? I can't tell if it's a darker pink that's closer to red, or if it's just the photo. The OCBD made in Malaysia has a much lighter pink, and I prefer that but would rather have a US made one.


----------



## Jovan

C. Sharp said:


> If you really like Press, Call O'Connell's they still might have some blazers with the Press tags in the pocket. They use the same supplier from time to time.


A good idea. I really want to get one of those blazers at some point. Trip rates his highly.


----------



## Hardiw1

What are your thoughts on wearing a surcingle and captoe brouge oxfords? Maybe a pic would help, I'm just not quite sure about the casual of the surcingle and the dressy of the shoes.


----------



## Hardiw1

^ pic


----------



## eagle2250

^^
The belts leather tip and keeper seem a perfect color match with the shoes. The two look like they were made for one another...why would you not wear them together? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Trip English

Hardiw1 - I think it depends on the rest of the ensemble. Seeing them sitting there together definately paints a high/low picture that may be incompatible, but if you're wearing them with khakis and a tweed jacket or something similar you should be fine. I believe that the brogue is technically a country shoe.


----------



## The Rambler

I agree, no problem, because those are not really "dressy" shoes. Wingtips in black calf or #8 cordovan seem designed to wear with business suits, but those are good looking country brogues, because of the color and the grain of the leather. Plus, as Eagle says the leather matches very well. I'd be wondering if the color was too matchy if the belt was all that color.


----------



## Billax

I'm certainly no expert, but I'll weigh in. The shoes are are among the least formal dress shoes, with all the perfing and pinking going on. In addition, they are made with a pebble-grain leather, dropping them down another notch in formality. I think they end up being dress shoes, but on the lower rung of dressy. The belt, conversely, is clearly casual, but at the higher end of casual (e.g., a solid leather tab that color matches the shoes). It does have contrast stitching, but that's not a deal killer to me. The solid color webbing is among the least casual of the genre. So, if it's to be worn with a sport coat and odd trousers, I think it would be great. Of course, I'm not the most dogmatic canine in the pound.


If the shoes and belt are to be worn with a suit - it depends. Solid Navy with a forward point shirt, probably not. If the suit is to be a little bit more casual/country - say a brown herringbone - and you were planning to keep the jacket on during the event, I think it would be fine. Maybe more than fine. It could be a very dynamic, rich look!


I'm eager to hear what the experts will say!


----------



## Jovan

Hardiw1 said:


> ^ pic


As long as you wear the tie I'm sending to you with it. 



Trip English said:


> Hardiw1 - I think it depends on the rest of the ensemble. Seeing them sitting there together definately paints a high/low picture that may be incompatible, but if you're wearing them with khakis and a tweed jacket or something similar you should be fine. I believe that the brogue is technically a country shoe.


Indeed. Tweed, navy blazer, linen, or cotton sport coats would all work well.



Billax said:


> I'm certainly no expert, but I'll weigh in. The shoes are are among the least formal dress shoes, with all the perfing and pinking going on. In addition, they are made with a pebble-grain leather, dropping them down another notch in formality. I think they end up being dress shoes, but on the lower rung of dressy. The belt, conversely, is clearly casual, but at the higher end of casual (e.g., a solid leather tab that color matches the shoes). It does have contrast stitching, but that's not a deal killer to me. The solid color webbing is among the least casual of the genre. So, if it's to be worn with a sport coat and odd trousers, I think it would be great. Of course, I'm not the most dogmatic canine in the pound.
> 
> If the shoes and belt are to be worn with a suit - it depends. Solid Navy with a forward point shirt, probably not. If the suit is to be a little bit more casual/country - say a brown herringbone - and you were planning to keep the jacket on during the event, I think it would be fine. Maybe more than fine. It could be a very dynamic, rich look!
> 
> I'm eager to hear what the experts will say!


You are certainly well attired, even if you aren't an expert (I don't profess to be one either), so your opinion holds weight.


----------



## Hardiw1

Thanks for all the input, Men. They would definitely be worn with khakis and a blazer/sport coat or tweed, no suit. Billax, I was thinking the pebble grain does help in making these work more. As you stated, it dresses the shoes down a notch. In my book, sir, your weigh in carries quite a bit of weight. Trip and Rambler, your comments get my mind back on the correct track, I guess "dressy" is sometimes relative to your surroundings, and around here, most of the time, dressy is an extremely loose term. Jovan, I think that tie would work wonderfully into this equation, I will try to oblige a pic of an attempt on WAYWT and hopefully not crash and burn. Thanks again, gentlemen.


----------



## Jovan

I think they could work with a casual suit (an oxymoron to most non-sartorial people), such as a linen, cotton, or tweed. Surcingles are definitely not for worsteds. However, a full leather belt that matches the shoes could work with more business-y suits.


----------



## Billax

Hardiw1,
So, if you think of your shoes as being on the boundary between dressy and casual, or on the boundary between town and country, and if you did elect to wear a suit, here is the type of suit that would look great, IMO:







A beautiful 3-piece Donegal, as worn by one of America's best dressed men, Andre Churchwell. Since I am quite taken with your pebble-grain bals, this "boundary condition" suit would dazzle when worn with your "boundary condition" bals. Of course, life on the sartorial boundary is fraught with risk, but I guess I'm smitten with your shoes and would like to see you go for it!


----------



## AlanC

I'll play contrarian. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think other belts (or other shoes) would work better.

Have you considered straight lacing on those bals?

Nice shoes.


----------



## mhj

Help me match this tie to a shirt:




It's an 11th Hussars regimental stripe from the Tiebar and the colors are rather bold. I want to tone it down a bit and it just doesn't look quite right to me with most of my shirts. I wore it once with a blue royal oxford and it was OK but I need more options. Thx.


----------



## Hardiw1

AlanC said:


> Have you considered straight lacing on those bals?


I have not considered that, until now. Thanks for the suggestion, I will try that. They will probably look much better.


----------



## hookem12387

Re: the shoes, I question why they even exist? A pebble grain bal? Why? What an odd high/low mix, IMO. It's like suede shoes with dainite soles, I just don't get it. If you need a rubber sole, suede is not the best option. If you want pebble grain, make it a blucher. That said, I think you could wear them together with no one noticing but yourself, take solace in that no matter what.

mhj, you could wear it with white. You'd get some "5 points to Gryffindor" comments, but you will with that tie no matter.


----------



## mhj

I had to look that one up Hookem and I can not disagree. I was thinking it would be more of a Brooks Brothers gold and now I'm trying to find some use for the tie.



hookem12387 said:


> Re: the shoes, I question why they even exist? A pebble grain bal? Why? What an odd high/low mix, IMO. It's like suede shoes with dainite soles, I just don't get it. If you need a rubber sole, suede is not the best option. If you want pebble grain, make it a blucher. That said, I think you could wear them together with no one noticing but yourself, take solace in that no matter what.
> 
> mhj, you could wear it with white. You'd get some "5 points to Gryffindor" comments, but you will with that tie no matter.


----------



## AlanC

I think pebble grain bals would look great with a tweed suit, cords and a tweed jacket, etc. It's a country shoe, not a city shoe.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

mhj said:


> Help me match this tie to a shirt:
> 
> It's an 11th Hussars regimental stripe from the Tiebar and the colors are rather bold. I want to tone it down a bit and it just doesn't look quite right to me with most of my shirts. I wore it once with a blue royal oxford and it was OK but I need more options. Thx.


I don't think I can help you tone it down, but I have two suggestions. I have seen it look smashing with a red button down striped shirt like this one from BB 
https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ort_by=newArrivals&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=

Also, I have seen it worn with a pink pinpoint button down and camel hair jacket and thought it looked great as well.

Not toned down, but some ideas. I hope this helps.


----------



## mhj

Actually I already have a BB burgundy university stripe OCBD. That could be a good solution, I held them together to get an idea and the red against red makes it a little less vivid. I'll have to try it out on the public next week.



oxford cloth button down said:


> I don't think I can help you tone it down, but I have two suggestions. I have seen it look smashing with a red button down striped shirt like this one from BB
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ort_by=newArrivals&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=
> 
> Also, I have seen it worn with a pink pinpoint button down and camel hair jacket and thought it looked great as well.
> 
> Not toned down, but some ideas. I hope this helps.


----------



## The Rambler

exact colors of my son's prep school tie (Haverford): looks great with the knot pulled down, with an ocbd open at the neck, with the shirttails untucked, under a blue blazer :biggrin2:


----------



## Billax

The Rambler said:


> exact colors of my son's prep school tie (Haverford): looks great with the knot pulled down, with an ocbd open at the neck, with the shirttails untucked, under a blue blazer :biggrin2:


So, Rambler, is your son now heading in your direction or are you heading in his? :icon_smile_big:


----------



## The Rambler

haha - after 4 years in college in the bay area, I'd describe his style as "recovering Californian."


----------



## mhj

I see there's a matching rugby shirt to go with the tie.



The Rambler said:


> exact colors of my son's prep school tie (Haverford): looks great with the knot pulled down, with an ocbd open at the neck, with the shirttails untucked, under a blue blazer :biggrin2:


----------



## Beastmode101

Hey all, new to this forum. 

My question is will the hole in my shirt close up after a few washes (I don't want to put it in the dryer) ? I removed a pocket from my bb button down with a razor blade (read about this on the forum)


----------



## Jovan

It should, so long as you didn't actually rip or tear anything.


----------



## Beastmode101

Thank you for the quick reply. The holes are dissapearing just as you said it would!

Also, another quick question, I have a couple of solid blue ocbds, but I only wear one most of the time. The reason is because this is the only one that fits me without having to be altered/tailored.

Problem though is that the shirt has a bleach/some sort of discoloration on the color. Is it still wearable? Or should I give it up to a thrift store. I'd like to get rid of these discoloration marks, but I'm not sure how it's goign to be possible. :/


----------



## Jovan

Can't be fixed. Do you use a laundromat? Just save the shirt for very casual affairs.


----------



## Beastmode101

Thanks for the quick response once again Jovan, great blog you got there. I book marked it. 

but in regards to you question, I'm a college kid so I have to use a communal laundery room. I think it was ruined because of this. I guess I gotta go with what you told me.


----------



## Jovan

I hate laundromats because inevitably you will get a washer that has bleach or something in it. A good trick is to wash your white clothes first to get it out.


----------



## Hardiw1

Someone educate me on these AEs.


----------



## firedancer

Do those say made in Belgium?


----------



## Hardiw1

Yes they do.


----------



## dorji

Can anyone tell me how wide the Current BB sack blazer's lapels are?? Thinking about picking one up...


----------



## Beastmode101

_*belt stretching/curving as time goes on & taking care of them*_

was just wondering if this was normal/happened to everyone else. I've noticed that all belts start out straight when I buy them, but as I wear them more and more, they begin getting stretched/curved. Are belts supposed to get stretched like this from continual wear? I think it's because I wear my pants sorta low on my hips, and when I sit down I exert pressure/force on it and it causes the belt stretch.

They start off 180 degrees straight, then they start curving up on one side. Will post pics if it isn't clear

Also, I've been told that I should switch belts every other day or week in order to keep them in the best condition. Is this what you guys generally do?


----------



## eagle2250

^^The condition you describe has developed, to varying degrees, with every belt I have ever owned...some of which have been pretty pricey purchases and were offered by very well respected vendors. As you suggested, the deformation occurs as we sit and the portion of belting that sit at the center of the small of our backs is pulled down and out of shape. Ya just gotta learn to live with it!


----------



## Jovan

It happens and it's not unusual. Actually it's desirable because it moulds to your shape. A straight piece of leather, if it kept straight no matter what, would not be comfortable. Just like improperly cut trousers that don't dip slightly in the front of the waistband aren't really comfortable.


----------



## dorji

dorji said:


> Can anyone tell me how wide the Current BB sack blazer's lapels are?? Thinking about picking one up...


Anyone have anything on this??


----------



## Jovan

Best to call BB, I think.


----------



## dorji

^Tried, and got an ambiguous answer. MAdison =3.5", Fitz= 3". OK, which cut is the blazer? Either one, they said...


----------



## Dr. D

I don't have the answer to your lapel question, but I did notice that they raised the price of the sack blazer from $548 up to $598 in the past few days. Guess they are getting ready for the sale later this week...


----------



## dorji

Yeah, and all their standard repp ties are now 3.25" on the web, although the stores still have lots of 3.5"... if this is what you like then get em while you can.


----------



## LouB

*Sportcoat folding question*

What is causing the fold (for lack of a better term) in this sportcoat? When I'm wearing it, it seems to drape properly and the fold isn't visible, but as soon as I put it on a hanger it all but doubles back on itself. It's a Corbin, if that makes any difference. None of my others do this.

I really like the color/pattern and have been enjoying wearing it, but I would **** to find a fix, if possible.

Thanks!

Lou


----------



## Barrow Jacket

LouB said:


> What is causing the fold (for lack of a better term) in this sportcoat? When I'm wearing it, it seems to drape properly and the fold isn't visible, but as soon as I put it on a hanger it all but doubles back on itself. It's a Corbin, if that makes any difference. None of my others do this.
> 
> I really like the color/pattern and have been enjoying wearing it, but I would **** to find a fix, if possible.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Lou


________________________________________________________---

LouB,
I wanted to chime in and say I have had the exact same issue on a Corbin suit I have. I have had it pressed and dry cleaned a few times since then, and it has not been as bad lately. However, even now the suit jacket does not drape quite as well as it should. The front of the jacket often flies open too much when I'm walking and its unbuttoned.

I am not pleased with the suit overall, and upset b/c I wanted a Hart, Schaffner, Marx but my local men's store did not have my size. The SA encouraged me to buy the Corbin, saying it was just as good (same price too). Big mistake. Not only has the jacket gaped, but the weight of the fabric is heavy for a year-round suit in my opinion. My other HSM have a lighter, more comfortable fabric weight.

I know a lot more now, having read these forums the past month, and I will not make such an error again. good luck Lou.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

About to pull the trigger on a 3/2 blazer. These two are pretty close in price with the BB 30% off tomorrow. Can anyone give me their opinion on which to go with? Thanks in advance.

Three Button 1818 Sack Blazer

$598.00 ​
https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...ort_by=newArrivals&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=

O'Connell's Navy Blazer

398.00
https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/popup.php?cPath=https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/images/products/1266429860.jpg


----------



## jaredhicks

For what it's worth (purchased last summer, Madison cut), the lapel width on mine is 3 3/8 inches. Mine has patch pockets, though. The photo on their website shows double-besomed pockets, so the pattern might have changed...



dorji said:


> Can anyone tell me how wide the Current BB sack blazer's lapels are?? Thinking about picking one up...


----------



## Beastmode101

I've been reading up on color coordination and I'm a little confused about something.

I'm an Asian American with black hair and brown eyes.

From what I've read on this Ask Andy Article (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/Clothes%20Articles/ColorSIMPLE.htm) I'm a winter. Therefore I should avoid earth tones (Such as gray and dark green). However, when I read this article (https://www.infoplease.com/world/art/seasonal-colors.html) it says I'm an autumn because I have a warm skin tone and dark hair. So it's saying earth tones look good on me.

1) Is it possible to have two different color "preferences" lack of a better word (Can I be both Winter and Autumn?)?

2) If I'm a winter, why do grays and dark green/olive look good on me? I thought earth tones would look bad on me.

3) If I'm an autumn, why does orange and gold look horrible on me?

I'm having a hard time discerning what's a good color to wear based on my skin complexion, hair color, and eyes. So far I know I look good in blue, white, burgundy, dark green/olive, grays, khaki (just for pants), and navy. Basically all dark colors

Apologies in advance for the dumb questions.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Beastmode101 said:


> I've been reading up on color coordination and I'm a little confused about something.
> 
> I'm an Asian American with black hair and brown eyes.
> 
> From what I've read on this Ask Andy Article (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/Clothes Articles/ColorSIMPLE.htm) I'm a winter. Therefore I should avoid earth tones (Such as gray and dark green). However, when I read this article (https://www.infoplease.com/world/art/seasonal-colors.html) it says I'm an autumn because I have a warm skin tone and dark hair. So it's saying earth tones look good on me.
> 
> 1) Is it possible to have two different color "preferences" lack of a better word (Can I be both Winter and Autumn?)?
> 
> 2) If I'm a winter, why do grays and dark green/olive look good on me? I thought earth tones would look bad on me.
> 
> 3) If I'm an autumn, why does orange and gold look horrible on me?
> 
> I'm having a hard time discerning what's a good color to wear based on my skin complexion, hair color, and eyes. So far I know I look good in blue, white, burgundy, dark green/olive, grays, khaki (just for pants), and navy. Basically all dark colors
> 
> Apologies in advance for the dumb questions.


You don't have to apologize for dumb questions. Hopefully I won't have to apologize in retrospect for dumb answers. 

I read the article (the AAAC one) on color co-ordination when I was starting out, and here's my opinion on it: most people who talk about "color seasons" describe it like it's a science, when it isn't. Color co-ordination is sort of an art. Knowing your "season" can help, but it's not the be-all end all. So, to answer your questions:

1) You can be in-between two, though the AAAC article splits things up by whether your look better in beige or charcoal gray. If you really can't decide between the two, then you lucky son-of-a-gun you look good in both. I'm sort of an autumn-spring, but those are both on the beige side.

2) & 3) A mirror with good light is a much better tool for judging how things look on you than a online article. Go with your eye on those.

So, the simple solution would be to not worry too much about your color season. I have mine in the back of my mind (spring, but I happen to look better than the article implies I should in navy), right about where I have my zodiac sign. Maybe sometimes I'll read my horoscope, and maybe sometimes I'll think "I should wear my tan jacket," but I don't worry too much about taking unexpected journeys to faraway places and I don't worry too much about wearing a navy suit.

That's not to say that everybody will look great in every color: that navy suit of mine is on the lighter side, and I do wear a lot of brown, green, and tan; which the article says I should. However, I wear nothing orange, which it recommends for both autumns and springs, because it would match my hair. Not a concern for people with less-loud hair colors, but I think an orange-haired person in an orange tie might be a bit much.

I don't mean to just trash the seasons theory, but I think practice, a good eye, and a willingness to be frank with oneself about what works and what doesn't are more important. You can use the guidelines based on season to develop those skills, but I wouldn't want to rely on them alone.

I hope this helps.

Also, you have an excellent username.


----------



## Beastmode101

Thank you for the detailed reply. I like the way you put the color coordination in that sorta "perspective." Much appreciated. And thanks lol


----------



## Jovan

YRR is spot on. According to all these colour season coordination thingies, I shouldn't be within 100 yards of brown. I think this is patently ridiculous.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> ...but I think practice, a good eye, and a willingness to be frank with oneself about what works and what doesn't are more important. You can use the guidelines based on season to develop those skills, but I wouldn't want to rely on them alone.


+1

Also, Flusser's _Dressing The Man_ has a good discussion of the interplay between complexion and colors (some particularly fantastic pictures of a "high contrast" Japanese man and the impact of his attire's color on his complexion).


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Beastmode101 said:


> Thank you for the detailed reply. I like the way you put the color coordination in that sorta "perspective." Much appreciated. And thanks lol


No problem. Somebody on here mentioned "seasons" the other day, and it'd been rattling around my brain for a few days.

sbdivemaster's recommendation of "Dressing The Man" is good advice. I haven't read that one, but I found Flusser's older book "Clothes & The Man" at the library, and I can say that Flusser gets it. I wouldn't do everything in his books - the more casual the clothes, the weirder his advice - but he's one of the best ways to learn the "conventional wisdom" of dressing well in classic men's clothing. There isn't too much in his books you can't learn from reading these forums closely for a few months (perhaps 15% of arguments on here end up settled by somebody quoting Flusser), but it's much faster to read a book instead of a ton of threads.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I haven't read that one, but I found Flusser's older book "Clothes & The Man" at the library, and I can say that Flusser gets it.


I was going to mention getting DTM from the library, but thought it superfluous. Yes, by all means borrow from your library when you can - I can borrow a book (videos as well) from almost any library in the world right from my computer, and pick it up at the library 2 blocks from my house.

Anyway, the graphics in DTM are spectacular, and very demonstrative of what he's discussing. I'll probably be requesting C&TM from the library soon.


----------



## Jovan

It seems that casual clothing tends to date anything -- books, television, movies -- the most.


----------



## dorji

jaredhicks said:


> For what it's worth (purchased last summer, Madison cut), the lapel width on mine is 3 3/8 inches. Mine has patch pockets, though. The photo on their website shows double-besomed pockets, so the pattern might have changed...


Thanks Jared! I went into BB today and found this to be true. The new blazer is "1818 Madison" model as well.


----------



## Orgetorix

_Dressing the Man_ is usually available at Stein Mart, if you have one near you.


----------



## Bjorn

sbdivemaster said:


> +1
> 
> Also, Flusser's _Dressing The Man_ has a good discussion of the interplay between complexion and colors (some particularly fantastic pictures of a "high contrast" Japanese man and the impact of his attire's color on his complexion).


In some ways, Flussers approach to it in terms of primarily contrast rather than color schemes are better in the sense that they are more basic and a good starting point.


----------



## AncientMadder

*BB white OCBD shrinkage*

I ordered some white Brooks Brothers OCBDs. I ordered my normal size but, after reading that the white OCBDs shrink, called and changed the order to a half neck size larger.

Now I'm second guessing myself:

I always wash cold and drip dry.
I wear a size 15.5 (~15 1/8 or 1/4" neck measurement) and have some size 16 non-iron (thrifted) BB shirts that are definitely too big in the neck.
Was it a mistake to change my order?


----------



## Jovan

With new shirts, I always wash and tumble dry on low heat to stabilise sizing, then hang dry them for every wash after that. OCBDs and more casual shirts (western, madras, etc.) are the exception, though I'm changing this, given how others say tumble drying without heat and/or hang drying immediately after washing will also take out any major wrinkles.

If it doesn't work out, just return to BB. They're usually pretty good sports about it.


----------



## Jovan

Orgetorix said:


> _Dressing the Man_ is usually available at Stein Mart, if you have one near you.


Alongside clothing that Mr. Flusser should be ashamed to have his name on, in my opinion.


----------



## AncientMadder

Jovan said:


> With new shirts, I always wash and tumble dry on low heat to stabilise sizing, then hang dry them for every wash after that. OCBDs and more casual shirts (western, madras, etc.) are the exception, though I'm changing this, given how others say tumble drying without heat and/or hang drying immediately after washing will also take out any major wrinkles.
> 
> If it doesn't work out, just return to BB. They're usually pretty good sports about it.


Thanks for the advice, Jovan. I'll stop worrying about it and do just that.


----------



## Himself

AncientMadder said:


> I ordered some white Brooks Brothers OCBDs. I ordered my normal size but, after reading that the white OCBDs shrink, called and changed the order to a half neck size larger.
> 
> Now I'm second guessing myself:
> 
> I always wash cold and drip dry.
> I wear a size 15.5 (~15 1/8 or 1/4" neck measurement) and have some size 16 non-iron (thrifted) BB shirts that are definitely too big in the neck.
> Was it a mistake to change my order?


Nope, they definitely shrink in the neck, even when drip-dried. I'm 15.5 as well and the 16 winds up pretty snug.


----------



## Tilton

I've been wearing a pair of Graysons in black calf and a pair of Delray's in Chili calf. What is my next shoe purchase? If they're over $400, I'll be ebaying them. With that in mind, Gucci and Ferragamo bits are widely available and very common in the crowd I work with (VA lobbyists wear live and die by bits and [ostrich cowboy] boots). Alden LHS's are no very common on the bay in a 13D. What do?


----------



## CMDC

I've got Alden's Cape Cod bits which I love, but they aren't the most versatile shoe. If you're just beginning to ramp up your shoe rotation, I'd probably opt for something else, unless you can score a nice pair of bits on the cheap. To my mind, I'd look next at some longwings--with the bonus that they should be relatively easy to acquire--AE MacNeil being one of the standard bearers. Given the colors of your others, I'd try to find some in #8 color.


----------



## Tilton

I picked up some Florsheim shell wings at a thrift shop, but I don't like the wing tip look too much. I wear size 13-14 and they look a bit clownish because they're so big and clunky. I'm really looking for something (I guess a loafer) that I can wear with ff chinos and a sport coat.


----------



## KJD89

Is there a recommended brand for penny loafers under the $300 mark? I've been looking at AE, but I've been told that their leather isn't the greatest on the Kenwoods, and that it's closer to a corrected-grain type of leather. I've tried looking on ebay and the exchange thread for something in my size to come up, but I've yet to see anything around 11.5-12.


----------



## mhj

I have the Kenwoods in burgundy and there's nothing wrong with the leather. They have a typical penny loafer finish. Before I got them I bought a pair of penny loafers from LL Bean which I believe to be made by Sebago or Bass. I returned those because of size but there is no comparison between the Kenwoods and those. The Bean's have that plasticy look that most pennys have now. The Kenwoods are very rich looking and I got a lot of compliments on them.



KJD89 said:


> Is there a recommended brand for penny loafers under the $300 mark? I've been looking at AE, but I've been told that their leather isn't the greatest on the Kenwoods, and that it's closer to a corrected-grain type of leather. I've tried looking on ebay and the exchange thread for something in my size to come up, but I've yet to see anything around 11.5-12.


----------



## toadbra

I need some help with tying a bow tie. I've watched several online videos and keep practicing but can't seem to get my knot tight. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time and consideration and have a great day!

Todd


----------



## Jovan

Think of it as tying your shoes. That should help.


----------



## nerdykarim

1. you can try to tie it on your thigh instead of on your neck to make sure you have the motion down, conceptually.
2. this is the video that i found to be the most effective. the guy is pretty far removed from "trad," but he moves really slowly and is easier to follow than most other videos I've seen


----------



## mjo_1

I learned using this video as recommended by several here, but, as with anything, your mileage may vary. Good luck! I can almost guarantee that you'll love it and be knee deep in bow ties before long.


----------



## Trip English

Where do you guys get monogramming done after-market? The three tailors in my area don't do it. I'm going to ask my buddy at RL tomorrow, but I feel odd bringing older shirts to a retail shop, even if they are RL.


----------



## hookem12387

Trip English said:


> Where do you guys get monogramming done after-market? The three tailors in my area don't do it. I'm going to ask my buddy at RL tomorrow, but I feel odd bringing older shirts to a retail shop, even if they are RL.


I'm not a big monogram person, but there's a monogram shop right next to the tailor I go to in Houston (Austin tailors are crap in my experience, so I only go when I'm in Htown, not that that matters here). Anyway, dedicated monogram store


----------



## Tilton

Try your local men's store. My local tailor doesn't do it but the haberdasher does... that's not to say my tailor and haberdasher are always different people, but usually... plus, I feel odd bringing him clothes I obviously didn't buy from him (although I got a steal on a great Barney's house brand suit and he was thrilled to recut the pants and alter the jacket for me).


----------



## sbdivemaster

RFH Company, 79 Rockland Rd., New Cannan, CT 203-853-2863

LogoSportswear, 500 Cornwall Avenue, Cheshire, CT 203-272-4883

Silvermine Embroidery Works, 51 Cedar Ln, New Canaan, CT 203-972-1906

Also check your yellow pages for "embroidery" or "custom embroidery" - there are probably more in Darien, Norwalk, Stamford, etc...

I've taken many things to one of our local embroidery places; they charge by the stitch, so it's actually not that expensive at all. I would think a small monogram would run you $5-$10.


----------



## M Go Crimson

What color Saphir wax should I use for Walnut AE shoes? Light brown? Mahogany? Cognac? Doesn't matter?


----------



## hardline_42

Trip English said:


> Where do you guys get monogramming done after-market? The three tailors in my area don't do it. I'm going to ask my buddy at RL tomorrow, but I feel odd bringing older shirts to a retail shop, even if they are RL.


Trip, are you handy with a needle and thread? Some colorful embroidery floss, a needle and a tight split stitch will yield a handsome monogram that isn't a dime-a-dozen and you can finish one during an episode of Downton Abbey.


----------



## J.B.

I don't think I'm very much of a trad kind of guy so much as slightly retro, but I like some elements of the style. Since I'm a university student, what are some basic things I should know and consider for the future? How trad is my style?

I typically wear:

Wested Raiders leather jacket or G-1 bomber jacket
Brown corduroy sports jacket (Old Navy)
Vintage '50s or '60s McGregor Anti-Freeze jacket (brown)
Several oxford cloth button-downs from Land's End (light blue, mid-blue, dark/French blue, patterned "Highland" shirt)
Contrast collar and cuffs shirt (a white and blue one from Donald Trump's company)
White oxford shirt by Arrow (it's almost half polyester)
Khaki, grey, brown, and olive chinos (the first three are Land's End, the fourth is Cabela's, and is baggy)
Two safari shirts (green and blue, from Cabela's, and polyester blended)
A few sweaters I wear that are all cotton (tan, red, dark blue, grey)

Footwear (cheap, at the moment):
Docker's oxford shoes (brown, I usually wear this pair, but they're getting beat up now though)
Bostonian's oxford shoes (black, but with a slightly squared toe look that I've recently learned to dislike)
Sperry Topsider's canvas slip-on shoes (grey-blue, my go-to casual shoes if not wearing my Docker's)

Pretty infrequently, but they still get more wear than most in my position would dare:
Land's End light charcoal Year'rounder suit separates (this double-vented jacket is tailored fit, trousers are full. I think I could have had a quarter of an inch to half off the length, and had a better break than the full one I've got now)
A small amount of ties (Probably numbering five total, only one is striped, the rest of them are patterned geometrically or with dots. I'm pretty dead-set on getting myself a a midnight blue or navy grenadine tie, eventually, to fill the solid-tie gap)
My collection of hats; a vintage late '40s or '50s light grey Stetson fedora (basically identical to Alain Delon's hat in Le Samourai), a modern Stetson Open Road, an Akubra Federation IV fedora (based on the style of Indiana Jones), and a straw SunBody hat (I had a Panama too, but it's too beat up for me to wear anymore, and it was fake shantung anyway).


----------



## jwooten

Trip English said:


> Where do you guys get monogramming done after-market? The three tailors in my area don't do it. I'm going to ask my buddy at RL tomorrow, but I feel odd bringing older shirts to a retail shop, even if they are RL.


My fiance works in a monogram shop, so that's who I would go to. Should be able to find a similar shop in your area, they are a dime-a-dozen in AL.


----------



## Tilton

Picked this Brooks sport coat up for a song on ebay basically because the waist was already taken in and I need more jackets pronto. Now what do I do? What should I wear this with? I wore it yesterday with a sort of seafoam/aquamarine ocbd, midnightish/navyish chinos, and the tie posted below, but something was off. Tie? Pants? I'm sort of lost. The windowpane colors are barely noticeable from afar, but definitely noticeable up close. Also, jacket is silk/wool blend, sort of summery weight.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

J.B. said:


> I don't think I'm very much of a trad kind of guy so much as slightly retro, but I like some elements of the style. Since I'm a university student, what are some basic things I should know and consider for the future? How trad is my style?
> 
> I typically wear:
> 
> Wested Raiders leather jacket or G-1 bomber jacket
> Brown corduroy sports jacket (Old Navy)
> Vintage '50s or '60s McGregor Anti-Freeze jacket (brown)
> Several oxford cloth button-downs from Land's End (light blue, mid-blue, dark/French blue, patterned "Highland" shirt)
> Contrast collar and cuffs shirt (a white and blue one from Donald Trump's company)
> White oxford shirt by Arrow (it's almost half polyester)
> Khaki, grey, brown, and olive chinos (the first three are Land's End, the fourth is Cabela's, and is baggy)
> Two safari shirts (green and blue, from Cabela's, and polyester blended)
> A few sweaters I wear that are all cotton (tan, red, dark blue, grey)
> 
> Footwear (cheap, at the moment):
> Docker's oxford shoes (brown, I usually wear this pair, but they're getting beat up now though)
> Bostonian's oxford shoes (black, but with a slightly squared toe look that I've recently learned to dislike)
> Sperry Topsider's canvas slip-on shoes (grey-blue, my go-to casual shoes if not wearing my Docker's)
> 
> Pretty infrequently, but they still get more wear than most in my position would dare:
> Land's End light charcoal Year'rounder suit separates (this double-vented jacket is tailored fit, trousers are full. I think I could have had a quarter of an inch to half off the length, and had a better break than the full one I've got now)
> A small amount of ties (Probably numbering five total, only one is striped, the rest of them are patterned geometrically or with dots. I'm pretty dead-set on getting myself a a midnight blue or navy grenadine tie, eventually, to fill the solid-tie gap)
> My collection of hats; a vintage late '40s or '50s light grey Stetson fedora (basically identical to Alain Delon's hat in Le Samourai), a modern Stetson Open Road, an Akubra Federation IV fedora (based on the style of Indiana Jones), and a straw SunBody hat (I had a Panama too, but it's too beat up for me to wear anymore, and it was fake shantung anyway).


My advice: the line between trad and retro is pretty thin. Trad clothing, in a lot of ways, is the same stuff some men have worn since WW2, but only the most conservative stuff of it. Check out the "American Trad Men" thread, and then compare it to the WAYWT posts.

Otherwise:

- Those aren't all oxford cloth shirts. They may have buttondown collars, but the LE Highlander shirts are twill. Get a few light blue OCBDs. The LE Hyde Park is great, perhaps a cut below Brooks Brothers but much cheaper, and better than most LE shirts. It costs more than other LE shirts, but it's worth it.

- A contrast collar shirt goes with a suit and a tie, almost always. It can work with just a jacket, but otherwise it's not so hot.

- Chinos are good. I'd want another pair of khaki ones, but I like khaki chinos a lot.

- Safari shirts probably aren't trad, but there's no point in being dogmatic. You should, however, try and avoid buying anything with polyester in it. Poly-wool blends are okay with me, but poly-cotton is bad stuff.

- Sweaters depend on the sweater. Cotton crewneck sweaters are great. I like v-necks slightly less. I'm not at all fond of half-zip sweaters.

-Shoes: If they start to look "beat-up," I have to ask: Are you polishing them? If the answer is "no," then that's a problem. Also, learn the terms. Are those shoes "oxfords" in the technical sense (this style is also called a "balmoral") or are they oxfords in the sense that they have laces? Topsiders are good.

- Probably the suit is okay, if you like a slimmer jacket and larger-cut pants. Maybe get the pants tailored, that's up to you.

-Ties: go to thrift stores. Don't buy anything that's shiny.

---
Basically, my advice, if you're interested in improving your wardrobe/moving in a trad direction, is to get an education both by checking out threads on here and window-shopping at the J. Press site, in addition to checking out blogs like Heavy Tweed Jacket, where there are tons of scans of old J. Press and BB catalogs.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Tilton said:


> Picked this Brooks sport coat up for a song on ebay basically because the waist was already taken in and I need more jackets pronto. Now what do I do? What should I wear this with? I wore it yesterday with a sort of seafoam/aquamarine ocbd, midnightish/navyish chinos, and the tie posted below, but something was off. Tie? Pants? I'm sort of lost. The windowpane colors are barely noticeable from afar, but definitely noticeable up close. Also, jacket is silk/wool blend, sort of summery weight.
> View attachment 4012


There doesn't sound to have been one problem, but instead several smaller problems which combined to reduce the effect of the look.

The shirt was may have been too dark for the cloth of the jacket, based on your description. Also, there is a reason why aquamarine OCBDs aren't a trad staple: it's not a very flattering color for many people.

Also, while navy chinos would work with that coat, they'd have to be at the lighter end of navy, instead of the darker end. That same advice goes for the tie, which is also a bit too simple - it would be great with a gray suit, but something slightly less formal might be better here. You also compound this issue by wearing them both at the same time.

Try a white, blue, or pink OCBD, lighter navy or stone-colored chinos, and a tie that can "stand up" to the jacket: a solid burgundy knit or a repp with more color, something like an A&S stripe. An emblematic tie would also be cool, with a ground that picked up some of the windowpane. Also, an off-white silk pocket square and cordovan-colored shoes. That's what I'd wear with it, at least.


----------



## TartanRetriever

*Yes, trad is a style of dress, and NOT a lifestyle*

that said ...what's missing here?

https://pinterest.com/allenreece/trad-home/


----------



## fishertw

KJD89 said:


> Is there a recommended brand for penny loafers under the $300 mark? I've been looking at AE, but I've been told that their leather isn't the greatest on the Kenwoods, and that it's closer to a corrected-grain type of leather. I've tried looking on ebay and the exchange thread for something in my size to come up, but I've yet to see anything around 11.5-12.


Try looking at the Rancourt shoes website. www.rancourtshoes.com (I think) or you can Google it. Kyle and family make up some really nice penny loafers at around this price point. I have not purchased pennies from them but know they make a beefroll penny that looks pretty nice. They sell through J Press and Brooks for some models, but you can also order directly from the factory either online or by phone (855 999 3544) They are located in Maine and do all their own work.
Good luck,
Tom


----------



## eagle2250

^^
+1. When it comes to handsewn footwear designs, Rancourts shoes are as good as Your are going to find...at any price! :thumbs-up:


----------



## Tilton

Does anyone else have a problem with OTC socks pulling funny on their trouser legs? If I wear straight-cut chinos or anything that isn't a decently fully cut leg, when I sit and walk my pant legs come in contact with the socks, and the friction/resistance caused them to pull oddly on my legs and look bad. 

The obvious solution is to not wear socks, but this isn't ALWAYS an option for me. 

Also, I do have decently large/muscular calves compared to the rest of me, but not to the point that it is noticeable in straight cut chinos.


----------



## Trip English

I have the same issue. The only thing I've been able to attribute it to is my calves. I have thicker more muscular legs than someone of my height & build would normally have and so unless I'm going to wear some absurdly baggy pants, OTC socks are absolutely a non-starter. I have a few pairs of dress pants where it's less of an issue (probably due to the smoother hand of the wool), but not worth having socks that have to be worn with only a few pairs of pants. 

That being said, my views on socks in general are well documented here. More trouble than they're worth f'ya'ask me.


----------



## Tilton

Yeah, I have two suits where it's not an issue, but straight leg, slight taper, or plain front pants are a no-go. Indeed, one pair of pants that aren't particularly full and not particularly trim pull in such a way that, when I sit down, it feels like the hem of my pants is stuck under my heel... if that makes any sense. It's a shame, because I usually wear as little break as I can get away with and OTC's come in handy for when I cross my legs in a meeting. 

For the record, I don't wear socks unless I have to. Make my feet hot, make the hair on my calves itch, my feet don't really sweat anyway, etc. etc.


----------



## red sweatpants

Thoughts on wearing a sterling silver tie bar when the rest of your outfit hardware (blazer buttons, belt buckle) is gold [in color]?


----------



## Jovan

This was discussed in another thread semi-recently. Frankly, I think it's a little _too_ prissy (I know, on this forum, etc.) to worry about whether all your metals match in addition to your belt and shoes. Go ahead and do it, I say.


----------



## KJD89

Trad socks? What is there? I know that argyles are popular, but I'm not really in the income bracket for what I've seen on here. I've been looking at Wigwam wool socks, but I wouldn't mind having thin cotton creme coloured socks, or some in lighter, more spring-summer colours. Solids preferably, maybe a pattern or two. I'm interested in trustworthy, ethical companies if possible. OTC would be preferred, but beggars can't be choosers.


----------



## Tilton

KJD89 said:


> Trad socks? What is there? I know that argyles are popular, but I'm not really in the income bracket for what I've seen on here. I've been looking at Wigwam wool socks, but I wouldn't mind having thin cotton creme coloured socks, or some in lighter, more spring-summer colours. Solids preferably, maybe a pattern or two. I'm interested in trustworthy, ethical companies if possible. OTC would be preferred, but beggars can't be choosers.


Target sells argyles at a good pricepoint. I also picked up a lot of "fun" socks at Macy's this weekend from Club Room - their house brand - in pastels, polka dots, etc.


----------



## Tilton

Does anyone have any experience with Corbin MTM sack suits? My local clothier told me they do a MTM sack suit with forward pleats for $500-600.


----------



## Tilton

This might get a quicker response here:

I'm ready to pull the trigger on some cigar shell LHS's today. I wear a 13D in AE lasts 7 (Grayson) and 8 (Delray) with a bit of room in the end and, especially with the 8-108, they took a while to stretch out for me width-wise. I think that in the Grayson, after wearing for 6 months, I could have gone with a 12.5. Is the consensus that I should order a 12.5 E in shell LHS?


----------



## The Rambler

I'm a 10.5 D+ usually, and 10D fits me well in van/cordovan.


----------



## Tilton

Bought them. We'll see how it turns out.


----------



## salgy

Madras question:
i have been racking my brain trying to figure out a way to make my BB madras pants more "dressy" this year. I would love to be able to wear them to work (business atmosphere) and not just on weekends. has anyone had any success pairing Madras with a jacket, tie, shoe combo that didn't look out-of-place?

I think the answer to this is going to be a resounding "no", i don't think anything will make it not look like a clothing mullet (business up top, party down below...), but want to hear from the experts.

thanks in advance,


----------



## Tilton

salgy said:


> Madras question:
> i have been racking my brain trying to figure out a way to make my BB madras pants more "dressy" this year. I would love to be able to wear them to work (business atmosphere) and not just on weekends. has anyone had any success pairing Madras with a jacket, tie, shoe combo that didn't look out-of-place?
> 
> I think the answer to this is going to be a resounding "no", i don't think anything will make it not look like a clothing mullet (business up top, party down below...), but want to hear from the experts.
> 
> thanks in advance,


I work in Gov't relations and I wear a pair of Charleston Khakis in a khaki/yellow and navy madras pattern (can't find it online) with a navy blazer, loafers, and a white ocbd in the summer. They definitely look ostentatious but never get any negative reactions. But then again, I work in an industry and area where ostrich roper boots and bowties are paired with suits every day and seersucker is very common when the heat comes.


----------



## P Hudson

KJD89 said:


> Trad socks? What is there? I know that argyles are popular, but I'm not really in the income bracket for what I've seen on here. I've been looking at Wigwam wool socks, but I wouldn't mind having thin cotton creme coloured socks, or some in lighter, more spring-summer colours. Solids preferably, maybe a pattern or two. I'm interested in trustworthy, ethical companies if possible. OTC would be preferred, but beggars can't be choosers.


Argyles ARE popular here, and so are Wigwams. But socks can be a funny thing. I bought a drawer full of argyle Pantharellas when I found them on sale, so I've packed them away for future use, but I find that I usually wear none, or just grab a pair in navy. Navy works, IMO, with any trousers.


----------



## red sweatpants

Thoughts on LE tailored fit compared to BB Clark? I have a few pair of the clarks and typically end up wishing I had slightly more room in the seat/rise. Are LE tailored fit a comprable alternative that may offer a bit more room?


----------



## Essential

Navy, black, or charcoal?  Leaning towards navy. Using it at college for casual wear.


----------



## Jovan

I'd lean towards charcoal myself.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan said:


> I'd lean towards charcoal myself.


Ditto.


----------



## Essential

Charcoal does seem to be the best color for it but I'm not sure if it's versatile. I'm planning on wearing it with khaki colored chinos and https://collaredtimes.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/allen-edmonds-larkin-loafer.jpg?w=900 or https://media.onsugar.com/files/2011/04/16/4/1547/15472703/image_7.jpg as shoes. Would charcoal work with this? And is it even a good deal at all (regarding quality)? It's on sale for $55 and quite a steal I must say.


----------



## Tilton

Essential said:


> Charcoal does seem to be the best color for it but I'm not sure if it's versatile. I'm planning on wearing it with khaki colored chinos and https://collaredtimes.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/allen-edmonds-larkin-loafer.jpg?w=900 or https://media.onsugar.com/files/2011/04/16/4/1547/15472703/image_7.jpg as shoes. Would charcoal work with this? And is it even a good deal at all (regarding quality)? It's on sale for $55 and quite a steal I must say.


I see $80 on the site, but even that is a good deal in my mind. I wouldn't pay retail for as in my experience, j. crew stuff isn't very well built for the money. However, at that price (and $55 for sure) you couldn't beat it. They had a house-brand pea/university style coat at Macy's or some other department store for more money than that on clearance last time I was in a dept. store and the j. crew one is certainly nicer.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Essential said:


> Charcoal does seem to be the best color for it but I'm not sure if it's versatile. I'm planning on wearing it with khaki colored chinos and https://collaredtimes.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/allen-edmonds-larkin-loafer.jpg?w=900 or https://media.onsugar.com/files/2011/04/16/4/1547/15472703/image_7.jpg as shoes. Would charcoal work with this? And is it even a good deal at all (regarding quality)? It's on sale for $55 and quite a steal I must say.


I have a similar coat, but with vertical warmer pockets. Mine's charcoal. It was my go-to winter coat. I wore it with khakis, jeans, brown shoes, black shoes, whatever. I didn't wear it with boat shoes, because I don't own any boat shoes. :smile:

I don't sweat co-ordinating my outerwear much, though.


----------



## Jovan

So... Sebago? Are they worth it? My only real hesitation is the silly little nylon tag at the sides of the shoes.


----------



## Topsider

Jovan said:


> So... Sebago? Are they worth it? My only real hesitation is the silly little nylon tag at the sides of the shoes.


Easily remedied with a razor blade or X-acto knife, if it bothers you that much.


----------



## Jovan

I do not trust myself with that kind of surgery. I'm an actor, not a doctor. :icon_smile_big:

Do you have any thoughts on the quality relative to the price? A few reviews claim they are better than Sperry, which they should be at $20 more, but still...


----------



## Topsider

Jovan said:


> I do not trust myself with that kind of surgery. I'm an actor, not a doctor. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Do you have any thoughts on the quality relative to the price? A few reviews claim they are better than Sperry, which they should be at $20 more, but still...


IMO, the leather is slightly superior on the Docksides. The downside is that they're a lot stiffer out of the box, and take a while to break in. Docksides are probably a better shoe for street wear, but I think Topsiders are better for what they're designed to do.


----------



## Topsider

Jovan said:


> I do not trust myself with that kind of surgery. I'm an actor, not a doctor. :icon_smile_big:


Piece of cake. Just slide a thin piece of metal or plastic sheet under the tag before you cut it, so your blade won't go through to the leather beneath. Use a sharp blade. Pull the tag down slightly, and cut as close to the top of the tag as possible. Do it right, and you'll never know it was there.


----------



## Jovan

Thanks.


----------



## Topsider

We always cut the tags off our Sebago, Bass, and Eastland shoes back in the 80's. I have no idea why.


----------



## Jovan

Anyone tried the J. Crew engine turned (what they and Land's End call "plaque") belt? It's USA made and inexpensive, both a plus. I'm very close to buying the brown.

https://www.jcrew.com/mens_category/accessories/belts/PRDOVR~30878/30878.jsp


----------



## Topsider

I have one that I found for half off at the local outlet. I like it for casual wear. My other, nicer, buckles are on dressier straps.


----------



## ogcr

This question might merit a thread in itself, but for the time being I'll just pop in here. Basically, I'm just starting to dip my toes into the world of blazers/sports coats, and I'm having a bit of trouble with fit, mainly in the shoulder areas. I have a few tweed jackets I've thrifted and the shoulders are huge and make me look like a teenage borrowing his dad's suit jacket, (I'm, 6,1, 175lbs, so I'm by no means a small dude), even though the fit is sound at all other points, so I was wondering how easy the process of 'naturalizing' a sports jacket shoulder would be for a tailor? Is this an expensive/difficult procedure,or could it be done relatively easily?


----------



## hardline_42

ogcr said:


> This question might merit a thread in itself, but for the time being I'll just pop in here. Basically, I'm just starting to dip my toes into the world of blazers/sports coats, and I'm having a bit of trouble with fit, mainly in the shoulder areas. I have a few tweed jackets I've thrifted and the shoulders are huge and make me look like a teenage borrowing his dad's suit jacket, (I'm, 6,1, 175lbs, so I'm by no means a small dude), even though the fit is sound at all other points, so I was wondering how easy the process of 'naturalizing' a sports jacket shoulder would be for a tailor? Is this an expensive/difficult procedure,or could it be done relatively easily?


It's a difficult procedure. That's probably why so much time and effort is spent by the members of this forum trying to find that "perfect shoulder." It's not just a matter of removing the padding. The shoulders have to pretty much be reconstructed. You could try it with a jacket that fits a bit too snug in the shoulders and see if removing the padding helps. But for the best fit, it needs to be made with a natural shoulder from the start.


----------



## Trip English

ogcr said:


> This question might merit a thread in itself, but for the time being I'll just pop in here. Basically, I'm just starting to dip my toes into the world of blazers/sports coats, and I'm having a bit of trouble with fit, mainly in the shoulder areas. I have a few tweed jackets I've thrifted and the shoulders are huge and make me look like a teenage borrowing his dad's suit jacket, (I'm, 6,1, 175lbs, so I'm by no means a small dude), even though the fit is sound at all other points, so I was wondering how easy the process of 'naturalizing' a sports jacket shoulder would be for a tailor? Is this an expensive/difficult procedure,or could it be done relatively easily?


Hardline's right. Of the many endeavors undertaken by our group of enthusiasts, the perfect shoulder might be the most time consuming. I can't speak to what you might have access to in Scotland, but here in the US, a "natural shoulder" is not an easy thing to come by at any store let alone at a thrift store. Certain parts of the country during certain times may have favored the look, but it has fallen out of favor for so long and is only now making a comeback, so thrift stores don't have many options. Moreover many of the "soft shouldered" jackets currently being sold are simply unconstructed, which has its place, but they do not stand in for a true natural shouldered suit jacket, blazer, or sport coat.

All I can say is welcome to the game. It took me 2 years to really understand the construction of a jacket and another 2 to find one I really like. You're on post one so you have a while yet to travel.


----------



## ogcr

Thanks for the input, chaps, and for the welcome, Trip! I'll just keep an eye out on Ebay for any bargains and bide my time until I come across a jacket with a true natural shoulder.


----------



## Trip English

eBay is cruel evil *****. From my experience you have to know EXACTLY what you want. Shopping it like a thrift store will drain your PayPal account $38 at a time and drive you to the very brink of madness.

The best thing to do is to resolve to try on all of the jackets up can until you find a few you like. You can ask us and between the lot of us we can probably guide you toward similar models. You're not alone. We all have the fever and can help when the skin starts to itch.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Trip English said:


> eBay is cruel evil *****. From my experience you have to know EXACTLY what you want. Shopping it like a thrift store will drain your PayPal account $38 at a time and drive you to the very brink of madness.


This is very similar to my early ebay experiences, and while I think it's great advice, there are ways to shop ebay effectively.

It's really about knowing what works for you and avoiding questionable stuff.For me that means sticking to established brands that I know work for me, I know there are good things to be had from small shops and other lapels, but it's hard to tell and more often than not they fall short. Plus the risk is lower.

It's also about recognizing labels and how they fit, for example, I seek out the polo Italian made jackets, and avoid all the made-in USA polo stuff. Or knowing which Brooks jackets give a good TNSIL fit and which were made more contemporary.

I also don't think there's a problem with taking some gambles on an item, as long as you recognize that that's what you're doing. 
Really, as long as you avoid fixed-price auctions, you can normally get most of your money back re-listing (or occasionally turn a profit).


----------



## Legal_Eagle

Traditionally speaking, how many welt pockets should there be in a double-breasted, peak lapel waistcoat, made of the same material as a peak lapel, single-breasted suit? 4 or 2? I am ordering a MTM 3 piece suit and would like to know. Thank you.


----------



## arkirshner

Legal_Eagle said:


> Traditionally speaking, how many welt pockets should there be in a double-breasted, peak lapel waistcoat, made of the same material as a peak lapel, single-breasted suit? 4 or 2? I am ordering a MTM 3 piece suit and would like to know. Thank you.


Two


----------



## Jovan

Topsider said:


> I have one that I found for half off at the local outlet. I like it for casual wear. My other, nicer, buckles are on dressier straps.


Thanks. Is the strap on the J. Crew replaceable?


----------



## Orgetorix

This look like a moth hole to you guys? I'm afraid I already know the answer. Figures it'd happen to one of my nicest suits.


----------



## Taken Aback

Could be carpet beetles too. Is it worth being rewoven?


----------



## Taken Aback

Has anyone here had experience with NATO/ZULU watch straps featuring PVD coated hardware? Does the coating last?


----------



## The Rambler

Oh, I hate that sight, Org, seen it too many times. fwiw, that fabric would reweave well.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Trip English said:


> eBay is cruel evil *****. From my experience you have to know EXACTLY what you want. Shopping it like a thrift store will drain your PayPal account $38 at a time and drive you to the very brink of madness.


No truer words have been spoken.


----------



## hookem12387

Brooks sale question for yall: I think the Father's Day sale is the next one up, is that 25% off (if anyone remembers)? Gracias a todos


----------



## ArtVandalay

I though the mid-year semi annual sale fell around fathers day. Maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Orgetorix

ArtVandalay said:


> I though the mid-year semi annual sale fell around fathers day. Maybe I'm wrong.


There's a minor sale around Father's day, 15% off or something like that. Semi-annual sale is after FD. Seems like there oughta be a spring Friends & Family sale before then, though.


----------



## mountain twig

Hello! I bought a PRL cashmere crew, it says that it's only to be dry cleaned, I wonder if it anyone got any experience of hand washing it cold? Thanks!


----------



## firedancer

I hand wash all of my cheaper cashmere and wool. I take the the good stuff ( Brunello and Loro piana) to the best cleaner in town. It costs about $12 per.


----------



## Orgetorix

Orgetorix said:


> There's a minor sale around Father's day, 15% off or something like that. Semi-annual sale is after FD. Seems like there oughta be a spring Friends & Family sale before then, though.


Sources say there's a F&F event starting sometime the second week of May.


----------



## MDP

What's the place of the color black in Trad?

From reading this forum and looking throughout WAYWT thread I've noticed that there aren't many black pieces that come up. I'll see some black shoes or boots every once in a while but that's about it.

Is it reserved for the most formal occasions? Is it too fashion forward otherwise?

For example, would a trad ensemble ever include a black cotton odd jacket?


----------



## CMDC

I think you'll find little love for black here. Most of us subscribe to the belief that black, other than for formal wear, is for undertakers or international spies. Even for shoes, my black gunboats, captoes, and loafers get the least amount of wear. I don't think I'm alone in this.


----------



## C. Sharp

No black cotton jackets, I am fond of black watch like madras. Here were my thoughts on black from an old post https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?112637-A-Black-Rumor&p=1223856#post1223856


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

MDP said:


> What's the place of the color black in Trad?
> 
> From reading this forum and looking throughout WAYWT thread I've noticed that there aren't many black pieces that come up. I'll see some black shoes or boots every once in a while but that's about it.
> 
> Is it reserved for the most formal occasions? Is it too fashion forward otherwise?
> 
> For example, would a trad ensemble ever include a black cotton odd jacket?


I've tried wearing a black cotton moleskin-ish jacket I bought at Old Navy in my post-skate clothes, pre-Trad Forum sartorial phase, and it just didn't work well with either my complexion or most of the colors typical to trad clothing -- it looked stark with a white shirt, and it made my blue shirts look very blue. I also had trouble pairing a tie with it. You certainly could make it work, but I couldn't.

I think what it comes down to is formality. Black day clothes were common as Victorian town wear, I think, and I think somebody on here once posted Emily Post advice from the 1920s that stated black as one of the few acceptable colors for men's town suits. I think that black suits were one of the first things to disappear as clothes became more casual in the '20s and '30s - along with four-button fronts and 3-piece DB suits.

Now, if you consider that trad clothes are significantly less formal than the clothes of the 1930s, it becomes clear why black clothes were very uncommon in the period when trad style was developing.


----------



## Jovan

mountain twig said:


> Hello! I bought a PRL cashmere crew, it says that it's only to be dry cleaned, I wonder if it anyone got any experience of hand washing it cold? Thanks!


Only if you really trust yourself. Make sure you use Woolite if you're going to do it. Detergents meant for machine washable clothes can be harsh.

All in all though, I think an occasional dry cleaning is better. Stu Bloom of Rave Fabricare (one of the best in the business, I trust his opinion) recommends you professionally clean sweaters before putting them in storage for summer rather than rely on things like cedar chests or moth balls. Those can actually damage clothing if kept in constant contact with it. Moths are more attracted to the oils, dead skin cells, etc. that gets on clothes from wearing them rather than the fabric content itself.



firedancer said:


> I hand wash all of my cheaper cashmere and wool. I take the the good stuff ( Brunello and Loro piana) to the *best cleaner in town*. It costs about $12 per.


I bolded this because it's important. Don't take your clothes to just any cleaner.



MDP said:


> What's the place of the color black in Trad?
> 
> From reading this forum and looking throughout WAYWT thread I've noticed that there aren't many black pieces that come up. I'll see some black shoes or boots every once in a while but that's about it.
> 
> Is it reserved for the most formal occasions? Is it too fashion forward otherwise?
> 
> For example, would a trad ensemble ever include a black cotton odd jacket?


Black suits, jackets, or trousers? No, not so much. But there's nothing wrong with an accent of black here and there, like ties, pocket squares, shoes, etc. but care should be taken not to overdo that either.

A quick education (which I think should have its own thread and be stickied, personally) culled from countless discussions...

The problem with black suits is that everything around it tends to look ten times louder than it really is. For instance, a conservative sky blue shirt and dark red BB#1 tie will look closer to electric blue and bright red next to black, precisely because _it is the absence of colour_. This is why dinner suits (tuxedos) are traditionally worn with a white shirt, black accessories, and at night. During the day, a black suit tends to make you look like you came from a funeral, washes out lighter skin tones, and just looks out of place next to the bright colours around you.


----------



## Tilton

https://www.industryofallnations.com/Porte%C3%B1os-Saddle-Loafers-BROWN-PID10882-BROWN.aspx?mmcid=11095

Thoughts? I've been really thinking about either of the non-black colors (a sort of whiskey and a dark brown)


----------



## CMDC

I, for one, like them a lot. If you get them, please review for us.


----------



## Jack.

Question regarding Brooks Brothers shoes - style looks exactly like the Alden black tassle mocassins, style number 664,

https://www.aldenshop.com/Store/DrawProducts.aspx?CategoryID=51&ParentID=94&PageID=&Action=

But she shoes have stitching in a quarter circle at the heels, and the style number is "1300".

Are these are made by Alden? Are they shell cord?

Thank you, Jack


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jack. said:


> Question regarding Brooks Brothers shoes - style looks exactly like the Alden black tassle mocassins, style number 664,
> 
> https://www.aldenshop.com/Store/DrawProducts.aspx?CategoryID=51&ParentID=94&PageID=&Action=
> 
> But she shoes have stitching in a quarter circle at the heels, and the style number is "1300".
> 
> Are these are made by Alden? Are they shell cord?
> 
> Thank you, Jack


Question one: Alden does make a tassel loafer for BB, which is identical except for stitching at the heel: https://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/Tasseled-Loafers_7439

Questions Two: BB has separate listings for the cordovan and the calfskin versions of the tassel loafer. I can't see the heel number in either. If you're buying used, it could be either; the "shell hunter's guide" thread might have info about which heel number is which leather.


----------



## hookem12387

Tilton said:


> https://www.industryofallnations.com/Porteños-Saddle-Loafers-BROWN-PID10882-BROWN.aspx?mmcid=11095
> 
> Thoughts? I've been really thinking about either of the non-black colors (a sort of whiskey and a dark brown)


I really like them. There's a younger blogger that wears these a lot in his pictures, and I always think they look great.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Tilton said:


> https://www.industryofallnations.com/Porteños-Saddle-Loafers-BROWN-PID10882-BROWN.aspx?mmcid=11095
> 
> Thoughts? I've been really thinking about either of the non-black colors (a sort of whiskey and a dark brown)


Wow, I really like those, go for it.


----------



## leisureclass

Tilton said:


> https://www.industryofallnations.com/Porteños-Saddle-Loafers-BROWN-PID10882-BROWN.aspx?mmcid=11095
> 
> Thoughts? I've been really thinking about either of the non-black colors (a sort of whiskey and a dark brown)


The tassels don't seem disproportionate anyone else? That would be my hesitation. Also the gold, but that's just me.


----------



## Tilton

hookem12387 said:


> I really like them. There's a younger blogger that wears these a lot in his pictures, and I always think they look great.


What blog? I haven't actually seen them on any feet...


----------



## hookem12387

I'm having a hard time finding a picture actually, but it's noah at https://novh.us/ - I'll see if I can track one down


----------



## Tilton

hookem12387 said:


> I'm having a hard time finding a picture actually, but it's noah at https://novh.us/ - I'll see if I can track one down


----------



## M Go Crimson

Are BB Garment-Dyed Chinos https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...NA-CREAM&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=# the same as their advantage chinos, just without a non-iron treatment?


----------



## mjo_1

Just curious - does anyone know the price of a standard OTR Southwick suit? Dann-online is the only online source I could find with a price listed, and theirs are at $850 (oh, and their site drives me nuts)

Is this about par for the course? Maybe a B&M store would be about the same?


----------



## Tilton

What's my next dress shoe purchase? I have Chili colored split toe bluchers, black tassels, cigar lhs, and burgandy/brown shell Florsheim longwings. 

Black lace ups? How about PTB's? Color? 

I wear mostly gray trousers or navy/charcoal suits. Sometimes I throw some olive or tan trousers into the mix, but not often.


----------



## M Go Crimson

Walnut!



Tilton said:


> What's my next dress shoe purchase? I have Chili colored split toe bluchers, black tassels, cigar lhs, and burgandy/brown shell Florsheim longwings.
> 
> Black lace ups? How about PTB's? Color?
> 
> I wear mostly gray trousers or navy/charcoal suits. Sometimes I throw some olive or tan trousers into the mix, but not often.


----------



## Tilton

M Go Crimson said:


> Walnut!


But what style shoe? A bal?


----------



## M Go Crimson

Tilton said:


> But what style shoe? A bal?


It does seem that you could use a bal in your lineup. Personally, Mcallisters in walnut are my favorite shoes.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Tilton said:


> What's my next dress shoe purchase? I have Chili colored split toe bluchers, black tassels, cigar lhs, and burgandy/brown shell Florsheim longwings.
> 
> Black lace ups? How about PTB's? Color?
> 
> I wear mostly gray trousers or navy/charcoal suits. Sometimes I throw some olive or tan trousers into the mix, but not often.


Walnut bals aren't a bad idea, though I don't like tan shoes as much as many others on this forum. I do think they look great with olive pants. You could also consider burgundy loafers or PTBs. Maybe something in dark brown suede?


----------



## Tilton

I have some chocolate suede bit loafers, but they're not something I wear with suits, etc. Some dark suede lwb's might be good, though. The PTB look has really grown on me so long as they're streamlined looking. I was in the Alden DC store on Monday and would have bought a pair in every color had the price of just one pair not been prohibitive at the moment.

My father has worn black PA's my whole life, but he's in finance (I am not) and that's what he recommends.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Tilton said:


> I have some chocolate suede bit loafers, but they're not something I wear with suits, etc. Some dark suede lwb's might be good, though. The PTB look has really grown on me so long as they're streamlined looking. I was in the Alden DC store on Monday and would have bought a pair in every color had the price of just one pair not been prohibitive at the moment.
> 
> My father has worn black PA's my whole life, but he's in finance (I am not) and that's what he recommends.


I always find brown PTBs look boring on the shelf, but then on the feet they look really great. My next shoes are likely to be brown wingtips, but I brown PTBs fall into the "one day" category for me.

I've liked these BB suede LWBs since the moment I saw them, and there's also a Florsheim option. What about chukka boots?


----------



## Tilton

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I always find brown PTBs look boring on the shelf, but then on the feet they look really great. My next shoes are likely to be brown wingtips, but I brown PTBs fall into the "one day" category for me.
> 
> I've liked these BB suede LWBs since the moment I saw them, and there's also a Florsheim option. What about chukka boots?


Frankly, if I were to buy any shells at retail right now, it would be the Alden shell chukkas. I am just not sure how they'd do with a suit although I know I'd wear them with more casual attire very often. I see Upr_Crust do it here and there, but his are more dressy and he's in a class all his own.


----------



## Tilton

Tilton said:


> Frankly, if I were to buy any shells at retail right now, it would be the Alden shell chukkas. I am just not sure how they'd do with a suit although I know I'd wear them with more casual attire very often. I see Upr_Crust do it here and there, but his are more dressy and he's in a class all his own.


To revisit this, it seems the regular chukka is Barrie lasted which may be a bit casual looking to wear with a suit. They have the George chukka with the strap and buckle, which is on the Aberdeen which is a much dressier last in my opinion.

Anyone wear Barrie lasted chukkas with a suit? Post pictures.


----------



## Essential

This isn't really a trad question but here goes nothing: I'm getting one of the two: https://www.maxtonmen.com/products/organic-wool-heritage-card-sleeve-wallet https://www.maxtonmen.com/products/organic-wool-oxford-card-sleeve-wallet Which one would be better for holding money? I feel like the first one but I'm afraid it'll have a really high chance of falling out. I'm definitely getting one of them so help me choose the lesser of the two evils  Thanks in advance.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Essential said:


> This isn't really a trad question but here goes nothing: I'm getting one of the two: https://www.maxtonmen.com/products/organic-wool-heritage-card-sleeve-wallet https://www.maxtonmen.com/products/organic-wool-oxford-card-sleeve-wallet Which one would be better for holding money? I feel like the first one but I'm afraid it'll have a really high chance of falling out. I'm definitely getting one of them so help me choose the lesser of the two evils  Thanks in advance.


Those are both card wallets, though... They're very nice card wallets, but it would be better to get one to hold cards and then either a money clip or a billfold to hold cash. Of the two, I suppose if I was going to stuff money in one it'd be the first, but that's not really a ringing endorsement. Also, that's the one I would prefer to use as a card case.


----------



## Essential

^thanks. I don't like money clips cause they're super pretentious and I don't have stacks of money to whip out. It'll look pretty pathetic. I could honestly use it for just cards, just money, or both so it's super versatile regardless.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Essential said:


> ^thanks. I don't like money clips cause they're super pretentious and I don't have stacks of money to whip out. It'll look pretty pathetic. I could honestly use it for just cards, just money, or both so it's super versatile regardless.


Yeah... I was gonna reserve judgement on the money clip, but that's kinda my view on them, at least for younger guys like myself.


----------



## hardline_42

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Yeah... I was gonna reserve judgement on the money clip, but that's kinda my view on them, at least for younger guys like myself.


I think this is generally the view of the "cashless" generation who typically make all purchases with a debit or credit card and think that carrying cash is for the purpose of showing off or "making it rain." There's nothing pretentious about a money clip. It's meant to hold bills of any denomination neatly folded in half so they don't get all crumpled in your pocket. Personally, I carry a slim leather business card wallet in my back pocket for my ID, debit card and a credit card, and a in my front pants pocket.


----------



## Tilton

hardline_42 said:


> I think this is generally the view of the "cashless" generation who typically make all purchases with a debit or credit card and think that carrying cash is for the purpose of showing off or "making it rain." There's nothing pretentious about a money clip. It's meant to hold bills of any denomination neatly folded in half so they don't get all crumpled in your pocket. Personally, I carry a slim leather business card wallet in my back pocket for my ID, debit card and a credit card, and a in my front pants pocket.


I do very much the same, although the money clip is not magnetic. I have been through several iterations of the system over the last couple years (bill fold and money clip, card sleeve with money clip attached, etc) but once I needed to carry business cards with me I went with an engraved money clip with a very slim fold out knife integrated into the front behind the engraving which holds cash (cashless generation for sure, but two of the restaurants I frequent for lunch are cash only) and my debit card. My card sleeve holds business cards on one side, business credit card, personal credit card, and ID on the other.


----------



## sbdivemaster

When I was a kid, Dad carried his wallet in his back pocket with a couple of singles, and the real money (saw $500 bill in there once) in a money clip in his front pocket. I never really understood why until he got mugged one day; he gave his wallet to the little POS, who promptly took the small handful of singles, threw the wallet down, gave Dad a black eye, and ran away. Dad walked away with a couple hundred in his pocket. (Which was quite a bit of cash in the early 70's.)

I have followed his example to this day.


----------



## Essential

A money clip does have its benefits but I'm 17 so it'll look weird for me to have one. It'll be funny when I make it rain with my one dollar bills  Regardless, I heard that if you don't have a sizable stash, the clip will get loose. I only have a debit card so I feel like the card case with money is alright.

I did get the first case though.


----------



## hardline_42

Essential said:


> A money clip does have its benefits but I'm 17 so it'll look weird for me to have one.


Maybe if you wear it around your neck. If it's kept in your pocket and isn't flashy, I don't see how it could call too much negative attention.



> I heard that if you don't have a sizable stash, the clip will get loose.


If you get a one-piece bent, metal type this could happen but a quick adjustment with pliers is all you would need. A magnetic one doesn't have this problem.



> I only have a debit card so I feel like the card case with money is alright.


You're probably right, for now. As you get older, you'll find yourself carrying a bunch of crap that you may or may not need. At that point, you should re-assess your pocket organization needs.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

hardline_42 said:


> I think this is generally the view of the "cashless" generation who typically make all purchases with a debit or credit card and think that carrying cash is for the purpose of showing off or "making it rain." There's nothing pretentious about a money clip. It's meant to hold bills of any denomination neatly folded in half so they don't get all crumpled in your pocket. Personally, I carry a slim leather business card wallet in my back pocket for my ID, debit card and a credit card, and a in my front pants pocket.


I generally pay cash for everything, but I keep my money in a clunky wallet. I think my aversion to money clips is that the people I know who carry them tend to flash them quite a bit, treating them like bling. A simple one would be a quite effective way of handling money, though.

My current wallet is starting to wear out, and I may switch to one that's a plain billfold with a few card slots, but this thread is making my want to take a second look at something like a cardcase and a money clip.


----------



## hardline_42

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> My current wallet is starting to wear out, and I may switch to one that's a plain billfold with a few card slots, but this thread is making my want to take a second look at something like a cardcase and a money clip.


The gets rave reviews on the forum. If I ever decide to switch it up, I'd probably go for one of those.


----------



## Tilton

hardline_42 said:


> If you get a one-piece bent, metal type this could happen but a quick adjustment with pliers is all you would need. A magnetic one doesn't have this problem.


I had the opposite problem: the magnetic one I got would sometimes not be strong enough to hold the money if I had a big wad of cash for whatever reason.


----------



## hardline_42

Tilton said:


> I had the opposite problem: the magnetic one I got would sometimes not be strong enough to hold the money if I had a big wad of cash for whatever reason.


Yes, that is a downfall. That's why I'm glad I seldom have a wad big enough to be an issue. I think it goes, magnetic for poor trads and metal clip-style for poor trads with lots of small bills.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

hardline_42 said:


> The gets rave reviews on the forum. If I ever decide to switch it up, I'd probably go for one of those.


Those are cool, and they seem pretty convenient. That's going on the wish list.


----------



## Tilton

Glad this is resolved. Now, somebody show me pictures of themselves wearing barrie lasted chukkas with a suit.


----------



## Jovan

I'm curious too. I kind of like chukkas with a suit ever since I saw them in the early Bond movies.


----------



## Atterberg

I don't think this is trad, but it is a quick question. What do you wear with contrast collars? Particularly a blue shirt with a white collar...


----------



## Billax

Atterberg said:


> I don't think this is trad, but it is a quick question. What do you wear with contrast collars? Particularly a blue shirt with a white collar...


The contrast collar is, indeed, a part of the TNSIL world. For clarities sake, are you asking what kind of tie one would wear with such a shirt, what kind of sport coat or suit jacket one would wear with such a shirt, or....? Here are two examples:


----------



## sbdivemaster

Billax said:


> The contrast collar is, indeed, a part of the TNSIL world.


Ummm..., I'm gonna need you to go ahead and come in tomorrow.... M'kay?


----------



## Atterberg

Yeah, I'm wondering if I dress as if I'm just wearing a blue shirt or if it requires more thought.


----------



## The Rambler

go with your gut :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Jovan

It would seem to me that anything that works with blue or white shirts would be fine.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Tilton said:


> Glad this is resolved. Now, somebody show me pictures of themselves wearing barrie lasted chukkas with a suit.


This is obviously not me, and I don't think these are Alden Barrie Last chukkas -- the shape is right, but I recall from my parent's copy of the CD that these have a seam on the toe like the Rancourt chukkas -- but this post reminded me of Vince Guaraldi on the back of the Charlie Brown Christmas Album:


----------



## sbdivemaster

Does anyone know an approximate date for this Lands' End tag:

www.ebay.com/itm/200754976215


----------



## Topsider

sbdivemaster said:


> Does anyone know an approximate date for this Lands' End tag:


Mid-to-late 1970's.


----------



## mhj

+1. I have a polo shirt from that era with the same label, not that it still fits me.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Topsider said:


> Mid-to-late 1970's.


Doh! I didn't even think to check LE's website.

I thought I remembered it from the early days - hazy memories. Thanks, Topsider.

This reminds me: Does anyone know of a gallery of BB labels? If one doesn't exist, I'm interested in doing a timeline of their shirt labels, and other labels as well...


----------



## Topsider

There's this thread: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...n-about-Brooks-ocbds-unlined-interfaced-lined


----------



## Taken Aback

sbdivemaster said:


> Doh! I didn't even think to check LE's website.
> 
> I thought I remembered it from the early days - hazy memories. Thanks, Topsider.


+1. In fact, the memory is coupled with putting one on: closing my eyes, raising my hands, and being told it's all over while it was tucked. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## SLeiber

I'm looking for an affordable (<$250) pair of penny loafers. I'm a big fan of the Ralph Lauren Singleton loafers, but they're a bit out of my price range and no longer on the RL website as far as I can see.

Also, which color loafer would be most versatile as I am just starting my wardrobe and will likely need to get a lot of wear out of these loafers until my shoe collection grows.


----------



## CMDC

^My choice would be either the Allen Edmonds Walden or Kenwood in burgundy.


----------



## M Go Crimson

AE Waldens are more comfortable than my sneakers. True story.


----------



## SLeiber

CMDC said:


> ^My choice would be either the Allen Edmonds Walden or Kenwood in burgundy.





M Go Crimson said:


> AE Waldens are more comfortable than my sneakers. True story.


I like the look of the Waldens a lot. I'm a pretty slim guy and have a small foot so I'm afraid beefrolls might look a bit out of place on my feet.

I notice they only come in black and burgundy. Would the burgundy be as versatile as tan or brown for casual wear?


----------



## M Go Crimson

Here's a recent discussion on burgundy shoes
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?117109-Burgundy

I'd vote for them being more versatile than both.


----------



## SLeiber

Thanks for the link. Maybe it is my inexperience, but I still can't help but feel like brown would work not only with standard color pants, but also colors like red or yellow.

EDIT: To clarify, I found some links to the sort of color that I'm talking about.

https://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12652084
https://www.ralphlauren.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4325807


----------



## M Go Crimson

Is it hopeless for me to pursue an undarted suit if I have an 11 inch drop from jacket size to waist size? Or can I just do some extreme tailoring for the jacket waist and pants?

@SLeiber I'll leave the advice to someone who is better at matching brown shoes to clothing than I.


----------



## firedancer

^ I would think it would be less expensive to eat a lot of good food. 11". That's nuts.


----------



## M Go Crimson

I pick things up and put them down.


----------



## hookem12387

Your pant size to jacket size, or actual waist:chest. I believe the drop is dependent upon the latter. My jacket/waist is 8/9", but my actual waist/jacket is only ~6/7"


----------



## Billax

M Go Crimson said:


> Is it hopeless for me to pursue an undarted suit if I have an 11 inch drop from jacket size to waist size? Or can I just do some extreme tailoring for the jacket waist and pants?


M Go Crimson,
As someone who - years ago - had a 13" chest to waist drop while working in an Ivy Style apparel shop during college days, I think it's hopeless. I tried to work the problem every way I could think of, but nothing was satisfactory. Given a 6" drop from suit coat to waist size in the average OTR suit, turning - in your case - a -6 into a -11 means you would end up with only one back pocket, centered over your butt. I think bespoke, MTM, or "suit separates" are your best hope.

Good luck!


----------



## M Go Crimson

Thanks for the responses and advice, gentleman. Will a MTM sack suit look extremely boxy on my frame because of the difference in chest and waist size? 

Hookem: With a measuring tape pulled tight across my chest: 51'' Waist at belly button: 36.5'' with bloat from dextrose and gorging on food after squatting. Most of my jackets are tagged size 48.


----------



## firedancer

M Go Crimson said:


> I pick things up and put them down.


I figured that much. .


----------



## Mississippi

Number one: I tried on a pair of Alden tassel mocs this week and I want to say I hate all of you for raving about these, catching my interest and putting me out (soon anyways) a wad of cash. They fit like a dream.

Number two: black or burgundy? Which is more versatile? I only have seen the black in person. I'd wear them a lot with trousers and a shirt/tie; jacket; maybe a suit if I feel up to it. I've never ventured into the real of burgundy shoes...


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Burgundy is perhaps the most versatile shoe color there is or ever was! As for wearing your tassel loafers with a suit, go ahead and do it...most of us do and get nothing but compliments, when doing so. As for the impending cash outlay, remember...it's only money and while money may not bring us happiness, a new pair of shoes can! LOL.


----------



## Hardiw1

What do you use to clean up your A/O Sperrys? Sahara color to be specific, mine could use a freshen up.


----------



## CMDC

Mississippi--get the burgundy. Or get both and send me the burgundy.


----------



## Mississippi

CMDC said:


> Mississippi--get the burgundy. Or get both and send me the burgundy.


I'll send you the cordovan if that's okay.


----------



## M Go Crimson

Hardiw1 said:


> What do you use to clean up your A/O Sperrys? Sahara color to be specific, mine could use a freshen up.


Don't have any in sahara, but I'll be taking some AE cleaner/conditioner and leather lotion to my BB boat shoes soon. I'll let you know how it turns out.


----------



## M Go Crimson

Has anyone ever come across a "moss" colored paisley tie similar to this 

I've checked all the usual suspects(brooks, hober, talbott, paul stuart, polo, tie bar, kent wang, brioni, charvet, .. basically anyone I could think of)

Also, paisley ties for wedding party? Thoughts?


----------



## TartanRetriever

Hard wearing fabrics?

I wear my suit pants with braces, but sitting at a desk all day causes them to crease up like crazy. I steam the wrinkles out with a Jiffy, but they come back almost instantly. I'm wondering if I could nip it in the bud. Any suggestions, fabric or otherwise, to curtail wrinkles?


----------



## arkirshner

TartanRetriever said:


> Hard wearing fabrics?
> 
> I wear my suit pants with braces, but sitting at a desk all day causes them to crease up like crazy. I steam the wrinkles out with a Jiffy, but they come back almost instantly. I'm wondering if I could nip it in the bud. Any suggestions, fabric or otherwise, to curtail wrinkles?


The marketing gimmick of using super numbers to describe fabric, as if the higher the number the better the fabric, has led to the use of lighter and lighter fabrics which in turn led to the unintended consequence of fabrics so light they can not help but wrinkle. The truth is that the heavier the fabric the better it hangs. The moral is to always get the heaviest fabric suitable for the climate.

Next time, before buying a suit, take a sleeve in both hands give it a good twist . Compare the extent of the resulting wrinkle with those of other suits. Unfortunately if the fabric of your suits is too light there really is no solution.


----------



## arkirshner

M Go Crimson said:


> Has anyone ever come across a "moss" colored paisley tie similar to this
> 
> I've checked all the usual suspects(brooks, hober, talbott, paul stuart, polo, tie bar, kent wang, brioni, charvet, .. basically anyone I could think of)
> 
> Also, paisley ties for wedding party? Thoughts?


Have you considered why BB, Hober, Talbott etc. don't make or stock moss paisley ties? IMO, if one wants a patterned tie for a wedding, any standard wedding tie pattern is preferable.


----------



## M Go Crimson

arkirshner said:


> Have you considered why BB, Hober, Talbott etc. don't make or stock moss paisley ties? IMO, if one wants a patterned tie for a wedding, any standard wedding tie pattern is preferable.


Yes, I'm not a fan of the color either, but it's not my wedding. I'm trying to explore more options and minimize the damage, that's all.


----------



## Milesandcoltrane

Hi gents,

My maiden post here. I've just graduated and will be starting work next week. It's a British shipbroking firm here in Singapore. We're relatively casual here. Just dress slacks and shirts - no ties. I would like to start building a wardrobe and really like the trad look.

I've bought some OTR slacks in Navy and dark grey and some white and blue dres shirts. I need to build my shoe collection. Currently only have a pair of rockport wingtips in black. 

Please advise what are the first 2 pairs of shoes I should purchase to build a rotation. Would like to keep the Rockports for rainy day duty only. 

I've been looking at AE Park Avenues (can't decide on black or brown) and a second pair possibly the Walden? Not too sure. Been scouring eBay but have a hard time finding reasonably priced items for their condition. Shipping to Singapore can be expensive.

AlsomI'm a heavy set guy 5 11 but 210lbs :rolleyes2: so please advise whether I should go for chunkier shoes like longings and beef rolls or would captoe bals etc be fine?

Many thanks in advance!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Milesandcoltrane said:


> Hi gents,
> 
> Please advise what are the first 2 pairs of shoes I should purchase to build a rotation. Would like to keep the Rockports for rainy day duty only.
> 
> I've been looking at AE Park Avenues (can't decide on black or brown) and a second pair possibly the Walden? Not too sure. Been scouring eBay but have a hard time finding reasonably priced items for their condition. Shipping to Singapore can be expensive.
> 
> AlsomI'm a heavy set guy 5 11 but 210lbs :rolleyes2: so please advise whether I should go for chunkier shoes like longings and beef rolls or would captoe bals etc be fine?
> 
> Many thanks in advance!


Congratulations on the job.

It seems to me that PAs and Waldens would hit the upper end of formality and the lower end, and that given your described attire, you want to hit the mid-to-low end of formality with your shoes. Maybe brown bluchers would be a good choice, or a pair of more-formal loafers. Obviously, PAs are a good choice, but they may be something you could add later as you build a collection, since they may not be the best choice for your work.

Regarding the scale issue, you don't have to worry about the style of shoe as much as the last -- and I'm not convinced you have to worry about that. You could find a longwing which is sleeker than a PA, for example.

Obviously, I know nothing about Singapore or the shipbroking industry, so I'm being exclusively theoretical here.


----------



## Billax

MilesandColtrane,
Your question is both interesting and important (at least in the world of apparel). Youthful Repp-robate is correct in assessing the casual nature of the Waldens and formality of the PAs. Both are great, but probably should be purchased after you have covered your basic needs. Seeing that you specified Allen Edmonds, here are a few choices that might come closer to the mid-point of your work environment:

As general guidelines, slip-ons are more casual than lace-ups, Bluchers are more casual than Balmorals, and shoes with perfing and pinking are more causal than without.

Slip ons:
Grayson
Randolph
Westchester
Parkland

Lace ups:
_Balmorals
_Fifth Avenue
Strand
McTavish

_Bluchers_
Townley
Hinsdale
New Haven
Benton

As you'll know from reading this Forum, shoe trees are a very important element in maintaining your investment in footwear. It's hard to overstate their importance.

I also agree with Youthful Repp-robate that your bigger size does not require heavier appearing shoes.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about the culture and dress in Singapore. More than a few would say that I know nothing about traditional clothing either.


----------



## Milesandcoltrane

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Congratulations on the job.
> 
> It seems to me that PAs and Waldens would hit the upper end of formality and the lower end, and that given your described attire, you want to hit the mid-to-low end of formality with your shoes. Maybe brown bluchers would be a good choice, or a pair of more-formal loafers. Obviously, PAs are a good choice, but they may be something you could add later as you build a collection, since they may not be the best choice for your work.
> 
> Regarding the scale issue, you don't have to worry about the style of shoe as much as the last -- and I'm not convinced you have to worry about that. You could find a longwing which is sleeker than a PA, for example.
> 
> Obviously, I know nothing about Singapore or the shipbroking industry, so I'm being exclusively theoretical here.


Many thanks for your reply Youtfhful Repp robate. Ah I've always thought that Cap toes were the first shoes any man should by, alas I do realize that they might appear too formal when a suit and tie are not worn.

I'd probably go with a middle of the road on the formality spectrum as per your advice. They would also be more wearable with jeans (dark indigo) which are the trousers of choice on casual Fridays.

I heard jeans are forbidden in our London office (if one commits this crime he has to contribute 5 quid to the office pool). But by all accounts our Singapore office is a lot more casual.


----------



## Milesandcoltrane

Billax said:


> MilesandColtrane,
> Your question is both interesting and important (at least in the world of apparel). Youthful Repp-robate is correct in assessing the casual nature of the Waldens and formality of the PAs. Both are great, but probably should be purchased after you have covered your basic needs. Seeing that you specified Allen Edmonds, here are a few choices that might come closer to the mid-point of your work environment:
> 
> As general guidelines, slip-ons are more casual than lace-ups, Bluchers are more casual than Balmorals, and shoes with perfing and pinking are more causal than without.
> 
> Slip ons:
> Grayson
> Randolph
> Westchester
> Parkland
> 
> Lace ups:
> _Balmorals
> _Fifth Avenue
> Strand
> McTavish
> 
> _Bluchers_
> Townley
> Hinsdale
> New Haven
> Benton
> 
> As you'll know from reading this Forum, shoe trees are a very important element in maintaining your investment in footwear. It's hard to overstate their importance.
> 
> I also agree with Youthful Repp-robate that your bigger size does not require heavier appearing shoes.
> 
> Disclaimer: I know nothing about the culture and dress in Singapore. More than a few would say that I know nothing about traditional clothing either.


Thanks for the recommendations Billax! I reckon bluchers might be the best way to go from the looks of it. I'm not restricted to AE though, and in Singapore in fact Loake 1880 are easier to purchase through P Lal. Will have to buy sight unseen though, because good shoes are hard to come by here.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Milesandcoltrane said:


> Many thanks for your reply Youtfhful Repp robate. Ah I've always thought that Cap toes were the first shoes any man should by, alas I do realize that they might appear too formal when a suit and tie are not worn.
> 
> I'd probably go with a middle of the road on the formality spectrum as per your advice. They would also be more wearable with jeans (dark indigo) which are the trousers of choice on casual Fridays.
> 
> I heard jeans are forbidden in our London office (if one commits this crime he has to contribute 5 quid to the office pool). But by all accounts our Singapore office is a lot more casual.


Well, I think black captoe bals would be a great third shoe, but they might not pull their weight at this stage. They would be excellent shoes to own, but they wouldn't be the best choice for building a rotation of casual shoes.

BTW, I remembered one thing I'd heard of, sartorially speaking, about Singapore: . There was a thread about them recently, as well as a post on Put This On. I can't speak to the quality of their shoe (the prices are low, which is something of an indicator, but I don't really _know_), and their styles are very European, which is a good or bad thing depending on your point of view. Certainly, many of their shoes are a bit much for me -- those plain front slip-ons are just weird, and that kiltie monkstrap thing is rather worrying (though the kiltie is removable) -- but they may be worth checking out if you're going to be anywhere nearby.

EDIT: I just saw your reference to Loake 1880s. Again, I know nothing about them, but they seem quite nice on the website.


----------



## Milesandcoltrane

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Well, I think black captoe bals would be a great third shoe, but they might not pull their weight at this stage. They would be excellent shoes to own, but they wouldn't be the best choice for building a rotation of casual shoes.
> 
> BTW, I remembered one thing I'd heard of, sartorially speaking, about Singapore: . There was a thread about them recently, as well as a post on Put This On. I can't speak to the quality of their shoe (the prices are low, which is something of an indicator, but I don't really _know_), and their styles are very European, which is a good or bad thing depending on your point of view. Certainly, many of their shoes are a bit much for me -- those plain front slip-ons are just weird, and that kiltie monkstrap thing is rather worrying (though the kiltie is removable) -- but they may be worth checking out if you're going to be anywhere nearby.
> 
> EDIT: I just saw your reference to Loake 1880s. Again, I know nothing about them, but they seem quite nice on the website.


Thanks again for the reply sir!

Ed et al! Yes! I heard about them some time ago and the prices are very affordable - right up my alley. Unfortunately everything fell apart when I tried them on at one of the stores here. Although they make shoes as large as 46 (US 12) they only had 45s in stock which were waaayyyyy too tight for me. I couldn't even get my feet in  their shoes are quite narrow, their lasts very streamlined and I believe I would need a US 13 equivalent or maybe even a 14 to fit my feet.

As for the euro looks, they can be quite sleek on paper but personally I'd much rather a more classic shape!


----------



## Tilton

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> those plain front slip-ons are just weird


They do look weird, but a guy I know regularly wears black plain toe slip-ons and they look great with a suit. He is the single best dressed man I know, whatever that's worth.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Tilton said:


> They do look weird, but a guy I know regularly wears black plain toe slip-ons and they look great with a suit. He is the single best dressed man I know, whatever that's worth.


Well, there are shoes that look great in a catalog but lousy on the feet, and there are shoes that look boring in catalogs and good under a pants hem. Plain shoes, to my eye, often fall into the second category. I just picked up a pair of burgundy PTBs that look better in the leather or on the foot than they ever do in catalogs.


----------



## Essential

I finally found out the difference between balmorals and blutchers. +1 for me. I know that balmorals are mostly to be worn with suits and blutchers are mostly to be worn with sportscoats/ blazers. Can you wear balmorals with blazers? It's probably not a big deal even if I do I'm assuming.


----------



## AncientMadder

Essential said:


> I finally found out the difference between balmorals and blutchers. +1 for me. I know that balmorals are mostly to be worn with suits and blutchers are mostly to be worn with sportscoats/ blazers. Can you wear balmorals with blazers? It's probably not a big deal even if I do I'm assuming.


I usually wear bluchers with a blazer, but you can wear balmorals as well, particularly if you're dressing the blazer up a bit with a spread collar shirt. When I do this, I favor brown balmorals, but I've done black Park Avenues too.


----------



## Essential

I might be getting 3 shirts for the BB Corporate Discount and was wondering which ones I should buy?

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatSectionView.process?IWAction=Load&Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=1052

I know the staples would be one white and one blue (light or not)? I'm not really into the stripes and I prefer no buttons on the collars. Which third color should I get and which shirt types? (I cant distinguish between https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...olor=BLUE&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize= and https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...lor=WHITE&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=)


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Essential: Consider one white, one pale blue and one in French blue (for your third shirt) or just go with two whites and one pale blue shirt.


----------



## Essential

French blue won't match anything I have, any other suggestions? 

And can you help me distinguish between the white shirts? (posted the two links up two posts)


----------



## sbdivemaster

Essential said:


> French blue won't match anything I have, any other suggestions?
> 
> And can you help me distinguish between the white shirts? (posted the two links up two posts)


Go with two whites and the pale blue, or you could consider the other classic BB colors: a yellow or a pink. Just to change it up a bit.

The difference in the two shirts you linked is the fabric. One is a very fine pinpoint oxford cloth, the other is a broadcloth - both are light weight; the pinpoint will have a tiny bit more texture and the broadcloth will be a tiny bit more translucent than the pinpoint.


----------



## Essential

Thanks for the clarification. And I prefer three different colors because I'll have one charcoal suit and one navy blazer (will get more soon) in my rotation. I'm not sure if pin will match too well. I considered Ercu but I'm Asian so it'll look weird.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Essential said:


> Thanks for the clarification. And I prefer three different colors because I'll have one charcoal suit and one navy blazer (will get more soon) in my rotation. I'm not sure if pin will match too well. I considered Ercu but I'm Asian so it'll look weird.


By pin, do you mean pinpoint? The texture of pinpoint works pretty well with anything I've ever thrown it up against. And I don't know if ecru necessarily wouldn't work with an Asian complexion -- but that's your call, not mine.


----------



## Essential

Whoops, I was typing on a phone and meant pink. I think I'm going to look into their non-iron shirts since there seems to be more stuff there.


----------



## Essential

I ended up getting: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=14-1/2 32# (one in light blue, one in white), and https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...&sort_by=&sectioncolor=&sectionsize=14-1/2 32. I got it for about $167 shipped, so ~$56 a shirt. Hope they fit and match my suit and blazer.


----------



## Beastmode101

*Fit vs Cut?- confused*

Hey guys, haven't been on here in a while.

I just wanted to ask a question regarding fit and cut.

I can't seem to differentiate the two (been reading up on sartorial stuff). What's the difference between fit and cut?

I believe cut deals with how much fabric there is and fit just deals with how well a shirt/jacket/sweater/pants/ect looks and feels on you.


----------



## arkirshner

Beastmode101 said:


> Hey guys, haven't been on here in a while.
> 
> I just wanted to ask a question regarding fit and cut.
> 
> I can't seem to differentiate the two (been reading up on sartorial stuff). What's the difference between fit and cut?
> 
> I believe cut deals with how much fabric there is and fit just deals with how well a shirt/jacket/sweater/pants/ect looks and feels on you.


The maker of a garment first designs a pattern, then cuts the cloth from the pattern, and finally sews the pieces together. The cut of a garment is the style of the design as cut and sewn by the maker. For example, a suit with a drape cut differs from a sack suit. As you say, fit relates to the individual who tries on the garment, even if we are the same size, because our body proportions differ, a specific garment may fit you and I differently.


----------



## KJD89

V-cleat? Suicide heel? I'd like to know what these things are. Sorry if they have been addressed recently. I see them whenever someone brings up Florsheim's longwings.


----------



## leisureclass

Older Florsheim longwings have metal v-shaped cleats on the end of the heel, other than this small piece of metal the rest of the heel is leather. This old fashioned way of making shoes typically denotes 2 things about them, one - that the wings are 20 plus years old, two - they occasionally can be slippery, hence the "suicide heels" term. 

Here's an example: 

Also of note, to most on the forum the v-cleats in the heel and the 5 nails in the sole means high quality shoemaking because of the age of the shoes.


----------



## Essential

Would it be fine to wear a dress shirt (instead of an OCBD) with a navy blazer? And would adding a tie be acceptable?


----------



## Georgetown08

Essential said:


> Would it be fine to wear a dress shirt (instead of an OCBD) with a navy blazer? And would adding a tie be acceptable?


I would imagine that the trad consensus is that an OCBD _is_ a dress shirt (although I prefer to wear them casually).

Generally speaking, yes you can wear a dress shirt with a blazer. Same goes for a tie.


----------



## CdnTrad

Essential said:


> Would it be fine to wear a dress shirt (instead of an OCBD) with a navy blazer? And would adding a tie be acceptable?


Sure, although I'd probably avoid a French cuffed shirt. But, maybe that's just me.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Essential said:


> Would it be fine to wear a dress shirt (instead of an OCBD) with a navy blazer? And would adding a tie be acceptable?


Yes, you can wear a shirt with a point or spread collar with a navy blazer. If you do so, you would be better off with a tie than without. An OCBD would work with or without tie, but a point or spread might flop out over the lapel if worn open. That isn't the best look period, and is very far from trad.


----------



## Topsider

Essential said:


> Would it be fine to wear a dress shirt (instead of an OCBD) with a navy blazer?


I wouldn't.


----------



## Hardiw1

Essential said:


> Would it be fine to wear a dress shirt (instead of an OCBD) with a navy blazer? And would adding a tie be acceptable?


Would it be fine? Yes. Would it look better? No.


----------



## Essential

Alright, thanks. Time for me to get some more OCBDs!


----------



## Taken Aback

It's _always_ time for that.


----------



## Jack1425

Gentlemen.. I have a christening coming up and was wondering if a seersucker jacket would be fine? I could of course go classic blazer and chino or even a navy cotton suit but my BB seersucker jacket deserves a little love.. I was thinking seersucker coat, white OCBD, navy cotton trousers and i'm open to shoe color choices as I do not own a pair of white bucks.. Any thoughts?


----------



## Tilton

Brown. My cigar loafers look great with seersucker. As so my walnut derbies.


----------



## KJD89

I've got 4 BB OCBD in slim fit, and they're a great fit everywhere except my stomach - there's too much material, which causes a lot of blousing. I've got a 40" chest, 32-33 waist (depending on the week), and I do wear my pants at a normal height, so I was wondering what I could do to solve this? What should I ask of my tailor? I've looked at a few threads regarding shirt tailoring, but I'm still not sure what can be done for this, and if it would be irreversible. 

Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this kind of question, I just didn't want to start the billionth shirt tailoring thread.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I've had my shirt waists taken in at the side seams to solve a similar problem...cost: $12 to $15 per shirt. :thumbs-up:


----------



## Duck

Jack,

Wear whatever you want, in 20 years just make sure that you don't look at the photo and say ask "what the hell was I wearing". It's like a wedding though, no one is looking at the guy.

Congrats.


----------



## Duck

Not much of a question but I'm on Tumblr now. I decided to start writing again after some time off, this is me dipping my toes in the pool.

So I guess my question is, would anyone care to read?

https://aduckgetsdressed.tumblr.com/


----------



## Untilted

Duck said:


> Not much of a question but I'm on Tumblr now. I decided to start writing again after some time off, this is me dipping my toes in the pool.
> 
> So I guess my question is, would anyone care to read?
> 
> https://aduckgetsdressed.tumblr.com/


for sure!


----------



## Topsider

Duck said:


> Not much of a question but I'm on Tumblr now. I decided to start writing again after some time off, this is me dipping my toes in the pool.
> 
> So I guess my question is, would anyone care to read?
> 
> https://aduckgetsdressed.tumblr.com/


Good to see you back, Duck!


----------



## LouB

Welcome back - I've enjoyed your writing!



Duck said:


> Not much of a question but I'm on Tumblr now. I decided to start writing again after some time off, this is me dipping my toes in the pool.
> 
> So I guess my question is, would anyone care to read?
> 
> https://aduckgetsdressed.tumblr.com/


----------



## eagle2250

Duck: I am looking forward to dropping in on "aduckgetsdressed" on a regular basis. Daily doses of both your wit and your wisdom have been missed! Welcome back.


----------



## Jack1425

Duck said:


> Jack,
> 
> Wear whatever you want, in 20 years just make sure that you don't look at the photo and say ask "what the hell was I wearing". It's like a wedding though, no one is looking at the guy.
> 
> Congrats.


Duck,

Sage advice thank you, though I was in no real danger of creating that memorable photo op for posterity.. :icon_smile_big: It is hard for me to see the line between Trad and costume sometimes that is why I am here... Hoping that makes sense.. By the by, your last comment struck home and is true.


----------



## Welch2ndWest

I recently thrifted a beautiful pair of burgundy captoe custom grade Nettleton laceups. There is some light brogue work separating the cap from the rest of the uppers. Anyhow, are burgundy captoes too dressy to wear with khakis, or must these be paired with a suit? Any thoughts would be appreciated.


----------



## Duck

A little formal for me, but I'm usually only wearing loafers.


----------



## Welch2ndWest

Thanks, Duck. I know it is more on the formal side, but I was wondering if it would be inappropriate (whatever that means). They are extremely comfortable.


----------



## Mox

Are they balmorals or bluchers? Might that tip the balance?


----------



## Welch2ndWest

Hello, Mox. They are captoe bluchers.


----------



## Mox

I'm new at this, so keep that in mind, but I'll apply my current understanding. I'm sure others with more experience will continue to offer their help and correct me if I'm off base.

They sound a little too casual for most suits, and maybe too formal for just khakis and OCBD/polo, but in the right ballpark of trousers and an odd jacket—depending on how particular you want to be.


----------



## ArtVandalay

I'm looking to get four BB OCBDs in the current sale. My existing BB shirts are 16x36. After shrinkage, the white shirt shrunk down to measure exactly 36". The non-white shirts, however, didn't shrink much if at all, and measure about 36.7"5. Ideally, I'd like the sleeves exactly 36". Does anyone have a recent BB OCBD, non-white, in sleeve size 35", that they could measure for me and let me know what the sleeve measures to? Thanks.


----------



## Billax

Welch2ndWest said:


> Hello, Mox. They are captoe bluchers.





Mox said:


> I'm new at this, so keep that in mind, but I'll apply my current understanding. I'm sure others with more experience will continue to offer their help and correct me if I'm off base.
> 
> They sound a little too casual for most suits, and maybe too formal for just khakis and OCBD/polo, but in the right ballpark of trousers and an odd jacket-depending on how particular you want to be.


Mox, that is a perfectly acceptable - and good - answer. There is, however, a mixed hierarchy in the shoes Welch2ndWest asks about that might/could offer a bit more flexibility. That is: Balmorals are more formal than Bluchers and both are more formal than loafers, but Captoes, especially without perforated medallions, are the most formal form of brogues. I believe Welch2ndWest's shoes (Captoe Bluchers, but with the most minimal broguing) have enough formality to wear with most suits. Others, more dogmatic than I, could disagree.

For example, here is a shoe very similar to the one in question - a captoe blucher with broguing only at the top of the cap.








Allen Edmonds says of them: _The combination of a world-class university and top-notch pizza makes New Haven, Connecticut the quintessential college town, and its namesake shoe is our take on the consummate dress shoe that should be in the closet of every young man who wears a suit to work. Modeled after our Timeless Classic Fifth Avenue shoe, this shoe has the classic perforated cap toe design that signifies professionalism and class, but is understated enough to go with any pattern from pinstripes to hounds tooth._


----------



## mrbill12345

What color socks would one wear with khakis and loafers? (I know the trad answer is no socks, but I still can't manage to do that in anything other than boat shoes!)


----------



## Hardiw1

^ Scan the Trad What Are You Wearing Today thread and reference member oxford cloth button down's posts among the many others, and scan the What Footwear Are You Wearing Today. Great ideas and a lot of the time the source of the socks is given.


----------



## FJW

For me, it's argyles or a color to match or contrast the color shirt I'm wearing.


----------



## Mox

Thank you for the feedback, Billax.

Even before I knew the terms balmoral and blucher-when I thought that any laced-up dress shoe was called an Oxford (thanks to current marketing practices)-I still didn't care for the look of open lacing. I'm sure that has an influence on my personal consideration of their appropriateness. It's not that I dislike them, but they just don't look as classy to my eye, so I fall into the group that doesn't consider them quite up to snuff for a suit.

It looks like the New Haven has a heel-cap with broguing and additional broguing along the quarter, so I think that would push it further towards the casual side of things. However, if a person were to have only a single style of shoe, it does seem like the NH or the Madison would be a decent choice, as they would likely be seen as "acceptable" across a wide range of situations by most people.

Since I already have a pair of plain captoe balmorals, the above would be low on my own purchase list. I want to procure a pair of casual shoes (or several): probably brown, _maybe _burgundy. Black bluchers, broguing or no, would likely just sit in the closet-both because of my taste and because I have so little call for the odd-jacket/blazer.

I'm not disagreeing with you, just explaining why I answered the way I did, accounting for my own particularness.


----------



## Essential

https://www.landsend.com/pp/StylePage-409344_LF.html

Good buy for $25 shipped?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
That seems a great price for a needlepoint belt...on previous occasions, and from other sources, I have seen them selling for more than ten times that amount!


----------



## Titus_A

This isn't a trad suit (note the darts), but can anyone provide some insight regarding the line based on this BB label? It looks like it's from the 90s, or some time right before BB introduced their current 1818 branding.


----------



## Stuart

Question 1: I'm 5" 5' and I am always wearing dark blue or black jeans since I tend to think that light colors will attract attention to the lower part of my body which will make people alert that I'm short. Therefore I tend to wear dark jeans and the upper body usually is white, light blue, black, etc. Is it true that people will notice faster that I'm short if I wear light colored pants?

Question 2: What color pants (and type) would you recommand me to wear which is a first safe move to a bit different dark jeans?


----------



## hardline_42

Stuart said:


> Question 1: ... Is it true that people will notice faster that I'm short if I wear light colored pants?


No. Other people's spatial perception is usually the culprit.



Stuart said:


> Question 2: What color pants (and type) would you recommand me to wear which is a first safe move to a bit different dark jeans?


Khakis. You might get different answers in the fashion forum, though.


----------



## Welch2ndWest

Billax and Mox,

Thanks for the input. I always learn so much from these forums and from contributors such as you!


----------



## Tilton

Stuart said:


> Question 1: I'm 5" 5' and I am always wearing dark blue or black jeans since I tend to think that light colors will attract attention to the lower part of my body which will make people alert that I'm short. Therefore I tend to wear dark jeans and the upper body usually is white, light blue, black, etc. Is it true that people will notice faster that I'm short if I wear light colored pants?
> 
> Question 2: What color pants (and type) would you recommand me to wear which is a first safe move to a bit different dark jeans?


I would guess that fellow member *oxford cloth button down *is only around 5'6-5'7 (don't be offended, OCBD, if you're much taller), however, if you go look at his pictures in the WAYWT thread, you will notice that while he wears khakis every day, he never looks short - he looks well-dressed. Wear your pants at the right height, legs the right length and an reasonable fit through the legs, crotch, and seat, and no one will ever think twice. Finding the right rise, proportionate to your girth (both stomach and hips) will go a lonnnnng way. FYI, I have a long torso and shorter legs (have to buy a tall, but only wear 31" inseam on dress trousers), so with the wrong rise or pants too roomy in the hips or seat and I look stumpy on the bottom end - too little rise, too narrow hips, or pants worn on my hips makes me look like I've had a mid-life growth spurt. It's a fine line but a very easy line to walk.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Tilton said:


> I would guess that fellow member *oxford cloth button down *is only around 5'6-5'7 (don't be offended, OCBD, if you're much taller), however, if you go look at his pictures in the WAYWT thread, you will notice that while he wears khakis every day, he never looks short - he looks well-dressed.


You are correct, I am 5'7, good observation. Thank you for the kind words. You have provided some very good advice.


----------



## rwaldron

I just got some Alden 994's (Barrie Last). Now I am poor and still need to buy shoe trees. Do I have to spend another $50 to get Alden branded ones, or are there any other brands that would fit in the shoe and do the job for a cheaper price? Does Anyone know who makes the trees that Alden put their logo on?


----------



## jfkemd

Question: how do you guys respond when teased about looking "preppy."
got singled out today while I was in a party. I wore the usual bue OCBD, khaki chinos, surcingle belt and penny loafers.
It is kind of hard to blend in when everyone else wears the dark trousers, pointy shoes and most clothing are of the slim fitting variety.


----------



## CMDC

No need to spend $50 on trees. If you've got a Nordstrom Rack near you, grab the Woodlore trees there. I believe they are the same as the ones used by AE and others. If not, there's no discernible difference IMO. They should be about $18 or so. Also, whenever JAB has they're buy one, get three free sale, it's a good opportunity to grab trees. They use the same ones, only with their logo affixed.



rwaldron said:


> I just got some Alden 994's (Barrie Last). Now I am poor and still need to buy shoe trees. Do I have to spend another $50 to get Alden branded ones, or are there any other brands that would fit in the shoe and do the job for a cheaper price? Does Anyone know who makes the trees that Alden put their logo on?


----------



## hardline_42

jfkemd said:


> Question: how do you guys respond when teased about looking "preppy."
> got singled out today while I was in a party. I wore the usual bue OCBD, khaki chinos, surcingle belt and penny loafers.
> It is kind of hard to blend in when everyone else wears the dark trousers, pointy shoes and most clothing are of the slim fitting variety.


Your best defense is to wear what you like as if it's the most natural thing in the world. In other words: own it. If anyone makes a negative comment, diffuse it by acting like you have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.


----------



## Mox

Men's Warehouse will also have a buy-one-get-one-free sale on accessories. I picked up two pair of their branded Rochester trees for $20. I'm not sure how that compares to JAB prices, or how well Rochester compares to Woodlore.

--Edit--

It looks like the JAB trees are $25, so would be a better deal based on a 4-for-1 price. They seem to be a solid toe, while the MW Rochester tree is a spring-loaded split-toe.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

jfkemd said:


> Question: how do you guys respond when teased about looking "preppy."
> got singled out today while I was in a party. I wore the usual bue OCBD, khaki chinos, surcingle belt and penny loafers.
> It is kind of hard to blend in when everyone else wears the dark trousers, pointy shoes and most clothing are of the slim fitting variety.


They're call go-to-hell pants for a reason. 

Depends on how you feel about preppies. If you've no problem with them, just shrug and say "I guess I do." If you or you're social circle are sorta anti-prep, saying "I only dress like one" or "I like these clothes. Why should they get the best clothes?"


----------



## Topsider

jfkemd said:


> Question: how do you guys respond when teased about looking "preppy."
> got singled out today while I was in a party. I wore the usual bue OCBD, khaki chinos, surcingle belt and penny loafers.
> It is kind of hard to blend in when everyone else wears the dark trousers, pointy shoes and most clothing are of the slim fitting variety.





hardline_42 said:


> Your best defense is to wear what you like as if it's the most natural thing in the world. In other words: own it. If anyone makes a negative comment, diffuse it by acting like you have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.


^ That.


----------



## Essential

So basically I'm planning to buy three belts from LE. According to a sales rep online and the product info, it seems that the length of the belt is not standard. I'll need to get two different sizes for two different belts. This pushes me over the $50 minimum for free shipping. If it turns out that one of the belts don't fit and I return it, will I have to pay the shipping?

Also would this belt: https://www.landsend.com/pp/StylePage-414561_AK.html be similiar to what I could get at Leatherman in terms of price:quality ratio?

Thanks in advance.

Edit: The above belt is the one in question. Normally I wear size 30 pants and 32 in belts but the sales rep said to get size 30 if I wear size 30 pants.


----------



## hardline_42

Essential said:


> Also would this belt: https://www.landsend.com/pp/StylePage-414561_AK.html be similiar to what I could get at Leatherman in terms of price:quality ratio?


I would go with Leatherman, unless you absolutely have to have the multi-stripe pattern of the LE. With the Leatherman surcingles, for about $10 more, you get the choice of a true feathered and edge-stitched tab (the LE is not feathered), your choice of round or British square solid brass buckle and your choice of smooth saddle tan or several colors of embossed crocogator leather. If you go with the basic, flat-tab Leatherman, you give up the stitching but you've still got a good-quality, American-made belt for less than the LE.


----------



## Aquinn

*Slim fit shirts?*

Long time reader, First time poster.

I am in the market for a pink ocbd, and decided to try my luck at a brooks brothers outlet. Although I know the 346 has a poor rep, but I'm a poor college student, and the discount seemed worth it for a shirt I don't plan on wearing to dressy occasions.

I tried on the 346 ocbd, and found the shirt to be unbearably baggy, especially in the arms. I'm a college swimmer, so I'm used to having a little extra room around the waist and sleeves, which I like, but this particular shirt was way to large.

I'm asking any athletic build trads, have you had similar problems? Are the mainline bb ocbd a closer cut than the 346 cut? Or should I try a slim fit ocbd?

I have apprehension buying 'slim fit', the idea of a close fitting 'modern' style shirt leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


----------



## Stuart

Thanks for the replies! 



oxford cloth button down said:


> You are correct, I am 5'7, good observation. Thank you for the kind words. You have provided some very good advice.


So what kind of jeans/pants do you usually wear? Is there a way to easily browse through all your photo's in all the topics?


----------



## hardline_42

Stuart said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> So what kind of jeans/pants do you usually wear? Is there a way to easily browse through all your photo's in all the topics?


Try his blog. It's a good read:

Oxford Cloth Button Down


----------



## Essential

From my previous posts, some people might have noticed I've been on a belt quest. I'm back with another question. I'm looking at the Eliza B. Leatherman Motif Belts ().

I was wondering what some of your favorites are? The choices are overwhelming and I like so many of them that I can't even decide. I'll give some context: I'm going to college next year (so I'm young) and I wear business casual clothes on a daily basis. This kind of precludes me from some of the motifs that might make me seem "old," no offense of course.

Edit: I'll be buying https://www.landsend.com/pp/StylePage-409344_LF.html (great steal if you guys fit), as well as a seperate Leatherman navy/red surcingle belt. I have a lot of brown dress shoes so I'm planning to get something with a bluish color like navy, bluebird, royal, or turquoise with a brown motif (not sure if the colors really work out). I'll also have basically 3 belts that have a navyish color so I'm open to other suggestions for this motif thing.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Taken Aback

My own trek down that road is posted here. It may be of some help.

I think nautical themes remain the most popular (Whales, Lobsters, Boats, Flags), and I've a few, but I also like some of the tartans (As hardline_42 said, you can also get tartans on wool straps as surcingle belts). I suppose skull & bones is a safe bet as being "youthful", but I don't think any of the motifs are out of place on a young guy. The stamped leather over cotton web is another nice variation of a motif too. There's also Preston with a few more designs to choose from, and I think LE even has a boat motif belt currently.

If you go with LM, be sure to use the current promo code "CLAIRE" for 15% off.



hardline_42 said:


> I would go with Leatherman, unless you absolutely have to have the multi-stripe pattern of the LE. With the Leatherman surcingles, for about $10 more, you get the choice of a true feathered and edge-stitched tab (the LE is not feathered), your choice of round or British square solid brass buckle and your choice of smooth saddle tan or several colors of embossed crocogator leather. If you go with the basic, flat-tab Leatherman, you give up the stitching but you've still got a good-quality, American-made belt for less than the LE.


I was surprised by how well the madras tab belt currently offered by LE was made (mfgr'd in the Dominican Republic). I believe it's of the same construction as the novelty motif they have, too. I'd still put LM first (US made!), but the current LE range is much better than the similar LE D-ring belts of the last few seasons (from China).


----------



## Essential

I'm looking at: 

The natural color, sport dolphin motif, old school leather man belt color.

Do you think that will look nice? I'm a bit confused between the above belt vs. . The one I'm getting is $5 more but are the only differences: 1/4 inch wider and has stitching (don't know if that's the "feathering" everyone is talking about).


----------



## hardline_42

Essential said:


> I'm looking at:
> 
> The natural color, sport dolphin motif, old school leather man belt color.
> 
> Do you think that will look nice? I'm a bit confused between the above belt vs. . The one I'm getting is $5 more but are the only differences: 1/4 inch wider and has stitching (don't know if that's the "feathering" everyone is talking about).


Feathering is when the edge of the leather tab is skived (thinned) so it tapers down around the perimeter. Then, it gets stitched down. I had never seen the 1 1/2" belts until you posted that link. Personally, I think it might be a bit much. I was just at J McLaughlin today and they have 1 1/2" ribbon belts that don't look quite right. Also, it may be a bit wide for some belt loops.


----------



## Taken Aback

hardline_42 said:


> I had never seen the 1 1/2" belts until you posted that link. Personally, I think it might be a bit much. I was just at J McLaughlin today and they have 1 1/2" ribbon belts that don't look quite right. Also, it may be a bit wide for some belt loops.


It doesn't look too bad here.

However, the extra web showing can be odd looking if you've only been exposed to the standard variety of widths. I took a chance on a D-ring version, like below.

After perusing the catalog and imagining what ribbons would look best on what color of a wider strap, I ordered khaki flags on khaki (Since the contrast would be less noticeable).

It threads fine through all my chino belt loops, but the D-rings are not correspondingly bigger to accommodate the width of the stiff leather end cap. If not for that, it would be great. Yet, there's great difficulty in getting the end through the rings. It's enough to give me pause about ordering another, but that shouldn't be an issue with the tab variety.


----------



## hardline_42

I think the difference wouldn't be as obvious if the ribbon was also wider. I suppose it would be negligible if e web were a similar color instead of contrasting like the example posted. That khaki example isn't too bad looking.


----------



## Essential

Yeah, the example photo looked amazing. Belts at 1 1/2 inches fit my pants but it's a real struggle getting them in so I decided to stick with the 1 1/4 inch belt. I pulled the trigger and got the natural color, sport dolphin, feathered edge with yellow stitching. I didn't want to pay for feathering at first but I'm impulsive and after a while I said why not. Do you think the belt in question will look good? (I'm hoping it'll look like the example photo for the 1 1/12 inch one).They should really have a picture system which shows the exact item you want to order 

I have a needlepoint belt ($15 shipped from LE :aportnoy, a navy/red surcingle, and the above belt coming to me. Won't need to buy belts for a while:icon_peaceplease:


----------



## Taken Aback

You say that now, but the motifs can be addictive. During spring cleaning I turn up ones I forgot I bought! Thankfully, there haven't been any accidental duplicate purchases.


----------



## KJD89

Quick question about the dreaded "Prole Collar Gap": can it be fixed by a tailor at a decent price, or are you better off buying another jacket?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I wanted to jump, albeit a little late on the Leatherman motif belt discussion. I have received a motif surcingle belt from Leather man and it is a little smaller (1/8-1/4 inch) than the the regular surcingle belts. Has anyone else noticed this or is this an anomaly?

Hardline 42- Thanks for your kind words in regards to my blog.

Stuart - I wear the J.Crew Essential Chino in Classic fit and though I seldom wear jeans the ones that I have are Levi's 501 STF (shrink to fit). I hope that this helps.


----------



## Essential

oxford cloth button down said:


> I wanted to jump, albeit a little late on the Leatherman motif belt discussion. I have received a motif surcingle belt from Leather man and it is a little smaller (1/8-1/4 inch) than the the regular surcingle belts. Has anyone else noticed this or is this an anomaly?


I'll post when I receive mine if someone doesn't already have an answer.


----------



## Orgetorix

KJD89 said:


> Quick question about the dreaded "Prole Collar Gap": can it be fixed by a tailor at a decent price, or are you better off buying another jacket?


Sometimes it can be fixed by raising and/or shortening the collar. It depends, though, on how bad it is and what's causing it.


----------



## hardline_42

oxford cloth button down said:


> I have received a motif surcingle belt from Leather man and it is a little smaller (1/8-1/4 inch) than the the regular surcingle belts. Has anyone else noticed this or is this an anomaly?


Ox, I have several examples of each. I'll take a tape measure to them tonight. Just so I'm clear, you're referring to the width of the backup webbing, not the ribbon, right?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Hardline - Sorry for the confusion. I am actually referring to the length of the belt. The two surcingles that I have are 30 inch belts and to get the same fit from the motif surcingle it seems that I would need a size 31.


----------



## Pink and Green

OK, question for Traddom: Years ago when I was in Japan, they had these marvelous suits that were super cool (literally, temperature wise). What am I looking at from Brooks that is the lightest, coolest fabric? I know Poplin is trad, but I'm thinking we can bring in some new science here. Seersucker will make me feel like a country lawyer around here, so I'd love to find out what's out there. I suppose I could reward the ridiculous commercials by going to Joseph A Bank, but I'm not comfortable with my clothier resembling a car lot (although I have some decent suits from there from a while back).


----------



## Pink and Green

jfkemd said:


> Question: how do you guys respond when teased about looking "preppy."
> got singled out today while I was in a party. I wore the usual bue OCBD, khaki chinos, surcingle belt and penny loafers.
> It is kind of hard to blend in when everyone else wears the dark trousers, pointy shoes and most clothing are of the slim fitting variety.


I know this is from awhile back, but wanted to support a fellow member. My usual response when (on rare occasion) asked about my clothes, it goes like this:
"Why do you dress like that?"
"You mean normally?"

And that's that. My response is usually to, in the friendliest possible way, turn it around and find out why they don't.


----------



## Orgetorix

Pink and Green said:


> OK, question for Traddom: Years ago when I was in Japan, they had these marvelous suits that were super cool (literally, temperature wise). What am I looking at from Brooks that is the lightest, coolest fabric? I know Poplin is trad, but I'm thinking we can bring in some new science here. Seersucker will make me feel like a country lawyer around here, so I'd love to find out what's out there. I suppose I could reward the ridiculous commercials by going to Joseph A Bank, but I'm not comfortable with my clothier resembling a car lot (although I have some decent suits from there from a while back).


Take a look at BB's BrooksCool suits. They're made from lightweight wool blended with some special BrooksCool polyester that really sheds heat well. And they're partially lined.


----------



## Howard

I have a question: Do you think clip-on ties and zipper ties are better than regular ties that guys wear today? It's easier to put on and plus there's no messing around with the tie, just clip it on or you can just zip it right on and it's already pre-made for you.


----------



## vwguy

Do they make you wear a tie while pushing carts?

Brian


----------



## hardline_42

Howard said:


> I have a question: Do you think clip-on ties and zipper ties are better than regular ties that guys wear today? It's easier to put on and plus there's no messing around with the tie, just clip it on or you can just zip it right on and it's already pre-made for you.


Howard, at the risk of infuriating the silk gods, I would suggest that if tying a tie each time you put one on is challenging for you, tie a regular tie once (or have someone tie it for you) and then just slip it on and off your neck by loosening it without undoing the knot. It is very bad for your ties, but pre-tied ties and clip-ons are very obvious and often don't send a very positive message about the wearer.


----------



## Howard

vwguy said:


> Do they make you wear a tie while pushing carts?
> 
> Brian


No If I want to I like to wear a clip-on tie during the cooler weather, during the summer months I wear shorts and button down shirts.


----------



## Jake_Gittes

hardline_42 said:


> Howard, at the risk of infuriating the silk gods, I would suggest that if tying a tie each time you put one on is challenging for you, tie a regular tie once (or have someone tie it for you) and then just slip it on and off your neck by loosening it without undoing the knot. It is very bad for your ties, but pre-tied ties and clip-ons are very obvious and often don't send a very positive message about the wearer.


I would support this, of course just as a last resource against using clip-on or zipper ties.

To my mind, clip ties are only acceptable when related to safety-related reasons: police officers, machinery operators and the like.

Same for bow ties, although the safety factor is harder to fit in most cases.

(Mmmmh, there are fairly unique clip-on bow tie designs if you are into 50's or 60's vintage... I would accept that too :icon_smile_big


----------



## The Rambler

How do you get the AA BB discount? Thanks.


----------



## sbdivemaster

The Rambler said:


> How do you get the AA BB discount? Thanks.


https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...Corporate-Discount-Cards-for-Ask-Andy-Members


----------



## The Rambler

merci, sb.


----------



## Jack1425

Friends, I just need a quick hand for a tie breaker. I'm going to send my Alden shell LHS for recrafting and am having trouble deciding on either B. Nelson or Alden. I have used Nelson before for a pair of LWB and the work was excellent. 

Jack


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## hardline_42

Jack1425 said:


> Friends, I just need a quick hand for a tie breaker. I'm going to send my Alden shell LHS for recrafting and am having trouble deciding on either B. Nelson or Alden. I have used Nelson before for a pair of LWB and the work was excellent.
> 
> Jack
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


There have been many complaints logged on the forum regarding Alden's recrafting service including poor communication, long wait times, ignored written instructions and unwanted redyeing of uppers. I can't remember reading any complaints about B. Nelson and it seems you've already had a good experience with them.


----------



## Orgetorix

Use Alden if it's important to you that they be recrafted on the original lasts. If it's important to you that the uppers not be redyed, or any other special requests, go with B. Nelson.


----------



## Essential

This isn't directly trad but a question some of you may be able to help me with.

I had a MTM LSMen's suit made. The shoulders fit well. I also have the kid's two button prep blazer and it measures about 1"-1.5" less but the shoulders also fit well. I look good in both of them but I was wondering if you can have a spare inch or so of leeway when fitting the shoulders.

Also, someone mentioned true navy looked like black before. I decided to get the one below (kids Brooks Brothers) and it looks black and shows no real hints of the navy I've come to know it as. Is the trad version of navy what it shows below?


----------



## Jack1425

Org.. Hardline.. Thanks. Going with B. Nelson.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## dorji

^Good idea Jack. Are you having any trouble with the penny strap stitching? I ask because mine are starting to fray, and will need attention soon. Also- how about some before and after pics please??? We all like those :icon_smile:


----------



## Jack1425

Dorji.. No issues with stitching thus far. I will of course post some before and after pics.. Nelson recrafted a pair of shell imperials for me a year or so back and the work was outstanding. My only concern is with fit being a slip on. I am a solid 9 1/2D and of course with Alden shell I downsize to 9 and they are a perfect fit..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Hardiw1

Jack1425 said:


> I will of course post some before and after pics.


Please do.


----------



## jrrakes

Quick question regarding tie width. 

Max tie width is supposed to match max lapel width? 3.5 inch tie (standard width) ok with a 2.5 in lapel?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

jrrakes said:


> Quick question regarding tie width.
> 
> Max tie width is supposed to match max lapel width? 3.5 inch tie (standard width) ok with a 2.5 in lapel?


Yes, they're kind of supposed to match. I, personally, don't particularly care about exact matches, however I'm not crazy about ties that are too much wider than the lapels, in most cases. Frankly, if the tie and the jacket work together other than in terms of width, you're alright, but if they're not really a good pairing, then the disparity in widths would, to my mind, make it much worse.


----------



## jrrakes

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Yes, they're kind of supposed to match. I, personally, don't particularly care about exact matches, however I'm not crazy about ties that are too much wider than the lapels, in most cases. Frankly, if the tie and the jacket work together other than in terms of width, you're alright, but if they're not really a good pairing, then the disparity in widths would, to my mind, make it much worse.


But as a rule is a 3.5 inch tie too wide for 2.5 in lapels? It seems totally fine to me.


----------



## sbdivemaster

*LL Bean Camp Moc... TTS?*

I am looking at getting a pair of the LL Bean Camp Mocs, but there are conflicting reviews on LLB's site regarding the fit. So, I wanted to inquire about the fit and how the sizing runs.










Anyone own a pair of these? What's the fit like? Just want to get some input so I can avoid having to make returns etc.

Thanks!


----------



## Hardiw1

The pair I have are TTS. I would order your normal size that you wear in most other shoes.

Edit: If you plan on sockless most of the time, maybe a half size down if you want them a little tighter. Even then I would still probably stay with true size.


----------



## Essential

So I've noticed that there was always a sort of "roll" on OCBD's where the collar sort of bends/rolls near the button.

A few weeks ago I remember someone mentioned a "shirt roll." Is what I referred to essentially one?


----------



## Hardiw1

Check out these two threads

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...-Collar-Roll-Please-Explain-and-show-pictures

https://www.styleforum.net/t/165024/the-ocbd-collar-roll-thread

And link

https://mercerandsons.com/collar_styles.htm


----------



## Howard

what kind of button down shirt is good to wear during the hot summers and how can one avoid perspiration on the shirts?


----------



## Topsider

Howard said:


> what kind of button down shirt is good to wear during the hot summers


I suggest a crop top. Please post pics.



> how can one avoid perspiration on the shirts?


Don't sweat.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Howard said:


> ...how can one avoid perspiration on the shirts?


Tampons in your armpits? :icon_jokercolor:


----------



## Topsider

sbdivemaster said:


> Tampons in your armpits? :icon_jokercolor:


Don't laugh. They actually exist.


----------



## James.D

Is either of the two Andover Shop locations preferred over the other?


----------



## Sir Cingle

^The Andover Shop in Andover (which I've never visited myself) is larger than the Cambridge store. It has been reported to me that the stores carry different items and thus it may be worth it to visit both Andover and Cambridge. But the staff can easily transport goods from one shop to another, so if there's something you know you want at the other place (something in the catalog, for instance), you can get it without another car ride. 

I hope to travel to the Andover branch at some point soon.


----------



## Taken Aback

Topsider said:


> Don't laugh. They actually exist.


I think you'll find that's more of a maxi-pad. sbdivemaster's patent registration can continue unopposed.


----------



## sbdivemaster

No no, I meant tampons; pads are so uncomfortable, feels like wearing a diaper; not to mention having to worry about embarrassing leakage... no thanks. AxillDrae brand armpit tampons are the only thing I trust for those times when I might need a little extra protection!

:icon_jokercolor:


----------



## Howard

Topsider said:


> I suggest a crop top. Please post pics.
> 
> Don't sweat.


Topsider I can't help it during the summer when there's very high humidity I sweat perfusely so there's really nothing I can do about it, I wind up with sweat spots afterwards. I don't have hyperhydrosis I just sweat a lot.


----------



## Howard

sbdivemaster said:


> Tampons in your armpits? :icon_jokercolor:


maybe heavy duty antiperspirant?


----------



## Georgetown08

Undershirts are helpful.


----------



## Howard

Georgetown08 said:


> Undershirts are helpful.


George I do wear white undershirts every day now but then they too get wet spots and the shirt starts to reek and smell.


----------



## rwaldron

Wearing a Brooks gingham sport shirt right now.


----------



## palmettoking

Allen Edmonds MacNeil or Park Avenue to wear with a suit? I have to wear a conservative suit for the first time and need an appropriate pair of shoes.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Both are acceptable, but the PA is preferable!


----------



## knucklehead

*penny loafer recommendation*

I'm looking for the penny loafer that gives the most lateral support (to the extent that is even possible). I'm thinking of weejuns, but wonder whether Alden or AE loafers might do a better job. Any thoughts? Thanks!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Of the brands you mention, Alden's LHS loafers seem provide the most lateral foot support for me. Bass Weejuns and AE's loafer designs seem to offer added lateral flexibility, which translates to less lateral support to your feet and ankles.


----------



## P Hudson

The Vibram sole is coming off my Sebago Creeksides. Any advice on how to repair? A cobbler here would cost more for a repair than I paid for the shoes, so I want to try to do it myself. One shoe has a roughly 4 inch gap along the inner arch and is just starting to open up on the outside near the toe. The other shoe has a 2.5 inch gap starting on the outside roughly the length of the little toe.


----------



## sbdivemaster

I used to replace the soles of my rock climbing shoes. This process is almost identical:

https://adventure.howstuffworks.com...how-to-make-and-repair-camping-equipment3.htm

The only thing I did differently, was using a hair dryer, or heat gun, the help soften up the old adhesive for removing the old soles.


----------



## P Hudson

sbdivemaster said:


> I used to replace the soles of my rock climbing shoes. This process is almost identical:
> 
> https://adventure.howstuffworks.com...how-to-make-and-repair-camping-equipment3.htm
> 
> The only thing I did differently, was using a hair dryer, or heat gun, the help soften up the old adhesive for removing the old soles.


Thanks for the reply. Looks like you and I are competing for the same clothes sizes. I had seen that page. The problem is that my shoes are NOS, and I don't want to replace the soles, which have no wear. I want to reattach them in those spots where they've come unglued. Hope that explains things more precisely.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Ahhh. Thought they were old soles, needing replacement. If you think you will have them resoled at some point in the future, you want to find some adhesive that will be easy to remove; perhaps talk with a cobbler to see what they use/recommend. If you don't think you'll be doing that, than something like Gorilla Glue is good. (I used it on some 80's Decker flip flops with very similar material as Vibrams - worked great!)

You'll need to find some kind of needle applicator so that you can get the adhesive deep into the area that is delaminating. Or, spread it up into the separation with a thin blade of some sort (shim made from aluminum can?).

Speaking of clamping, that's going to be the tough part. I've had to clamp some odd shaped items in the past, and you have to get kind of creative to assure nice, even pressure over the entire area being repaired. If you need more info hit me up with a PM.


----------



## P Hudson

I probably should have started with a picture. Yesterday the soles had gaps, today they are flapping. These have about one week worth of wear. Now that they are this far gone, I think I might talk to the maintenance guys at work, hoping that they have a good clamp. Apart from the sole, I like the shoes a lot.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Yes, a picture is much better. The glue went bad. Now you can just follow the instructions at that link; just remove the Vibram soles and prep both surfaces as if they were new (which they essentially are). Now that I see the shoes and soles, try using Barge Cement (original formula, red/yellow can). The key is starting with very clean surfaces.

Take some before and after pics during your repair and post them later. :icon_smile:


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

How do you lace up your gunboats? I just bar-laced my Florsheim Kenmoors, and it got me wondering how other forum members do theirs. Do you prefer the criss-cross method? Have you tried both?

Let's all step back for a moment and admire how incomprehensible that previous paragraph would be to anybody not familiar with the forum.


----------



## mhj

Most of my shoes are bar laced. It distributes the tension more evenly and is therefore more comfortable. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk


----------



## papa_smurf

What are some of the lesser know "DO NOT DO THAT" rules in the world of trad?


----------



## Beastmode101

*brooks brothers label question?*

Hi all,

I'd like to apologize in advance if this is a dumb question (I've been searching on google trying to find the answer), but would anyone here happen to know when this brooks brothers shirt was made based on the label?

Here's the label 









I believe Hookem had a shirt with a similar label (detective skills, not a creeper here).


----------



## Orgetorix

Early '00s. Tail end of the Marks & Spencer era. When I worked at BB in 07-09, there were still a few kicking around in back stock.


----------



## hardline_42

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> How do you lace up your gunboats? I just bar-laced my Florsheim Kenmoors, and it got me wondering how other forum members do theirs. Do you prefer the criss-cross method? Have you tried both?
> 
> Let's all step back for a moment and admire how incomprehensible that previous paragraph would be to anybody not familiar with the forum.


I do criss cross lacing for all my bluchers. For my bals, I do straight European lacing when I want to be as formal as possible and bow tie lacing when I want a little extra flair. Since a bal has closed lacing, I think the minimalist lacing styles work better - like neat little stitches closing an incision. Bluchers leave a lot of tongue leather visible and I think a thin, waxed lace looks a bit too sparse when bar laced. The added texture of the criss cross also goes well with the brogueing and Scotch grain of longwing gunboats.


----------



## Billax

hardline_42 said:


> I do criss cross lacing for all my bluchers. For my bals, I do straight European lacing when I want to be as formal as possible and bow tie lacing when I want a little extra flair. Since a bal has closed lacing, I think the minimalist lacing styles work better - like neat little stitches closing an incision. Bluchers leave a lot of tongue leather visible and I think a thin, waxed lace looks a bit too sparse when bar laced. The added texture of the criss cross also goes well with the brogueing and Scotch grain of longwing gunboats.


Hardline,
That's a terrific response about your choices and the reasons you made them. I particularly like that you combined the type of shoe and the type of leather as contexts for your decision about lacing styles. Nicely done, Sir!


----------



## hardline_42

Billax said:


> Hardline,
> That's a terrific response about your choices and the reasons you made them. I particularly like that you combined the type of shoe and the type of leather as contexts for your decision about lacing styles. Nicely done, Sir!


Thanks, Billax. Believe it or not, I was thinking about your Keds Champions as I was typing the response. Even though I hesitate to invoke any "rules" when it comes to this stuff, my understanding has always been that any closed lace dress shoe (bal, saddle, wholecut) should NOT be criss cross laced. I always assumed the same rules carried over to canvas sneakers as well, and I have always laced my CVO-type shoes with some form of straight lacing. I see in your pics that you do the same, but I see criss cross lacing on CVOs almost exclusively in product photos from traditional sneaker manufacturers and even on the WAYW thread. It made me wonder if there is some practical or historical reason for deviating from the norm.


----------



## Steve Smith

hardline_42 said:


> I do criss cross lacing for all my bluchers. For my bals, I do straight European lacing when I want to be as formal as possible and bow tie lacing when I want a little extra flair. Since a bal has closed lacing, I think the minimalist lacing styles work better - like neat little stitches closing an incision. Bluchers leave a lot of tongue leather visible and I think a thin, waxed lace looks a bit too sparse when bar laced. The added texture of the criss cross also goes well with the brogueing and Scotch grain of longwing gunboats.


That is well thought out and makes a lot of sense.


----------



## Beastmode101

Orgetorix said:


> Early '00s. Tail end of the Marks & Spencer era. When I worked at BB in 07-09, there were still a few kicking around in back stock.


Thank you for the help


----------



## P Hudson

sbdivemaster said:


> Yes, a picture is much better. The glue went bad. Now you can just follow the instructions at that link; just remove the Vibram soles and prep both surfaces as if they were new (which they essentially are). Now that I see the shoes and soles, try using Barge Cement (original formula, red/yellow can). The key is starting with very clean surfaces.
> 
> Take some before and after pics during your repair and post them later. :icon_smile:


You'll perhaps be disappointed to hear this, but I took them in and paid someone to do it. I considered doing the job myself, but I didn't want to spend at least an hour tracking down the glue, at least an hour stripping the old glue, and then a couple hours applying glue, clamping, checking etc. So when I heard that we have an old-school cobbler nearby, I thought I'd support his business. He is the real deal, did it overnight, and only charged $15. For the time saved, and the introduction to a worthwhile local business, I feel like I played it right. Thanks though for your advice. I really do appreciate it.


----------



## sbdivemaster

P Hudson said:


> You'll perhaps be disappointed to hear this, but I took them in and paid someone to do it. I considered doing the job myself, but I didn't want to spend at least an hour tracking down the glue, at least an hour stripping the old glue, and then a couple hours applying glue, clamping, checking etc. So when I heard that we have an old-school cobbler nearby, I thought I'd support his business. He is the real deal, did it overnight, and only charged $15. For the time saved, and the introduction to a worthwhile local business, I feel like I played it right. Thanks though for your advice. I really do appreciate it.


You made a wise choice; I was thinking about the time involved vs. the cost, but I usually factor in the knowledge gained and experience as part of the equation. At $15 vs. the hours involved, there's no justification for doing it yourself... that's a smokin' deal.

I see you hail from Sydney; you ever go to the crab races in Glebe?


----------



## knucklehead

First, many thanks for the answer to my question about the loafer with the most lateral support.

Second, what is the appropriate size of a pants cuff? Does it depend on the material? I've seen 1.25" all the way up to 2".


----------



## Hardiw1

Appropriate size really depends on your height. I personally wear 1.5" cuffs, and would consider that the smallest really anyone should go. If you're taller, all the way up to 2" would be a better choice.


----------



## knucklehead

Hardiw1 said:


> Appropriate size really depends on your height. I personally wear 1.5" cuffs, and would consider that the smallest really anyone should go. If you're taller, all the way up to 2" would be a better choice.


Thanks. I'm 6'2", so could I do a 2" cuff.


----------



## Hardiw1

Definitely.


----------



## Taken Aback

I do 1.75". I think 2" is a bit much.


----------



## P Hudson

hardline_42 said:


> Thanks, Billax. Believe it or not, I was thinking about your Keds Champions as I was typing the response. Even though I hesitate to invoke any "rules" when it comes to this stuff, my understanding has always been that any closed lace dress shoe (bal, saddle, wholecut) should NOT be criss cross laced. I always assumed the same rules carried over to canvas sneakers as well, and I have always laced my CVO-type shoes with some form of straight lacing. I see in your pics that you do the same, but I see criss cross lacing on CVOs almost exclusively in product photos from traditional sneaker manufacturers and even on the WAYW thread. It made me wonder if there is some practical or historical reason for deviating from the norm.


My recollections that in England, crossed laces are considered appropriate for sports shoes, and horizontal ones for dress. Don't know if we care about such rules, but it may explain what you're seeing. It is my understanding that crossed lacing distributes the load more evenly.


----------



## Essential

I want a Red University Stripe OCBD and can't decide whether I should get it from both Ratio Clothing or LSMen's Clothing. Both companies offer MTM though Ratio is online and LSMen's is at their brick and mortar store.

Ratio has a deal for $60 () while LSMen's has their cheapest shirts starting at $65.

I was wondering if anyone was familiar with what LS offers at the lowest price range (I'm getting the $65 one if I get it here). I don't mind paying an extra $5 to have a better fitting shirt but I'm just not sure if 1) I can get red university stripes for $65 since it might be for solids only, 2) If the quality is on par with Ratio, 3) relating to (2), I'm not sure which of the two companies LS will use, and 4) I believe LS does a more traditional cut style and I want it a bit slim. I bought a suit from LS before and I know they have good quality suits but I'm not sure if it also bodes well for the shirts.

Edit: LS Site here: https://lsmensclothing.com/custom-dress-shirts 
"All shirts are made in America, at the renown factories of Individualized Shirts, Y'Apre and Skip Gambert & Associates. 
The cost for our custom shirts range from $65 to $125."


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Can anyone make a recommendation for a good tailor in the Columbus/Dayton, OH area? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Valkyrie

> Ratio has a deal for $60


How do you get that deal?


----------



## KJD89

Camel duffel coat with khakis - would that be weird? I like the look of a camel coat but I can't think of what pant colour would go well with them. I'm looking at chinos/cords only, really, as I have no reason to wear any sort of dress pants with it if purchased.


----------



## roman totale XVII

KJD89 said:


> Camel duffel coat with khakis - would that be weird? I like the look of a camel coat but I can't think of what pant colour would go well with them. I'm looking at chinos/cords only, really, as I have no reason to wear any sort of dress pants with it if purchased.


I have a camel corduroy Gloverall duffel. Looks great with any heavy cloth that isn't too similar in color (i.e. khaki chinos!). Flannels, cavalry twill, denim, Bedford cord, fine whale cord all look great in blues, grays, dark browns and olives.


----------



## AncientMadder

^^
I have a camel Gloverall duffel. Most of my pants are khakis, so I find myself not wearing it often—a shame since it's a great coat.


----------



## firedancer

What you guys need to do is add a navy Gloverall to the collection. Problem solved!


----------



## hardline_42

Tan/camel/khaki colored casual outerwear is tough to incorporate into a trad wardrobe because of the ubiquity of bottoms in the same or similar shade. It's much easier for formal outerwear over suits because these tend to be darker. I wouldn't hesitate to get a tan colored topcoat or overcoat (like a polo coat, for example) but for a duffel, I would go navy (or gray, or or maybe even , but probably not) even though camel is more authentic from a historic point of view.


----------



## Eric W S

Essential said:


> I want a Red University Stripe OCBD and can't decide whether I should get it from both Ratio Clothing or LSMen's Clothing. Both companies offer MTM though Ratio is online and LSMen's is at their brick and mortar store.
> 
> Ratio has a deal for $60 () while LSMen's has their cheapest shirts starting at $65.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone was familiar with what LS offers at the lowest price range (I'm getting the $65 one if I get it here). I don't mind paying an extra $5 to have a better fitting shirt but I'm just not sure if 1) I can get red university stripes for $65 since it might be for solids only, 2) If the quality is on par with Ratio, 3) relating to (2), I'm not sure which of the two companies LS will use, and 4) I believe LS does a more traditional cut style and I want it a bit slim. I bought a suit from LS before and I know they have good quality suits but I'm not sure if it also bodes well for the shirts.
> 
> Edit: LS Site here: https://lsmensclothing.com/custom-dress-shirts
> "All shirts are made in America, at the renown factories of Individualized Shirts, Y'Apre and Skip Gambert & Associates.
> The cost for our custom shirts range from $65 to $125."


Have Mercer and son's make you a proper dress shirt. Leave those to the hipsters. Godawful.


----------



## James.D

Recommended NYC tailor? Someone Hip to trad inclinations...


----------



## firedancer

Paul Winston. ? .


----------



## hardline_42

^^ This.


----------



## Jovan

Eric W S said:


> Have Mercer and son's make you a proper dress shirt. Leave those to the hipsters. Godawful.


Ratio Clothing make a great shirt actually. I'm uncertain what strikes you as "hipster" about it.


----------



## Orgetorix

Eric W S said:


> Have Mercer and son's make you a proper *circus tent*. Leave *shirts that fit* to the hipsters. Godawful.


Fixed that for you.


----------



## Eric W S

Jovan said:


> Ratio Clothing make a great shirt actually. I'm uncertain what strikes you as "hipster" about it.


What strikes me as being hipster? The cut and collar. Seen quite a few up close and they are all wrong. Every hipster in the city is sporting one above their skinny pants, jorts, skorts or whatever else they stole from their girlfriend's laundry basket. Nothing about the shirt that I saw would warrant the adjective great. Old BB Makers and Merchants from 20+ years ago bought when Brooks was still Brooks, those were great shirts.


----------



## Eric W S

Orgetorix said:


> Fixed that for you.


Funny. I was on the L in my circus tent from Mercer. It's 10 years old and wearing in very nicely (in other words it still looks new). I was cool and dry in it. The young man with the shirt that "fit" next to me, was a disgusting mess of sweat. It was actually beautiful out, no humidity and mid 80s. I nearly pissed my self when a fellow passenger exclaimed, "Damn that Mother$%^&%^ was sweating" as he exited the train. My cut of preference has been around longer than I have. My guess is the skinny and trim look has run it's course already. The older you get the more foolish you look in clothes of that fashionable genre...


----------



## Jovan

You know, this whole holier-than-thou attitude is not very becoming of you.


----------



## Eric W S

Jovan said:


> You know, this whole holier-than-thou attitude is not very becoming of you.


Just found my signature line. Thanks! Love the blog.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Eric W S said:


> Just found my signature line. Thanks! Love the blog.


You are asked to defend your statement, you do so with remarkable clarity and wit, then you get accused of being "holier than thou!!"

Absolutely classic!!


----------



## sbdivemaster

Hypothetical:

You're going to a casual, cocktail-type event, you're wearing some navy 14-wale cords and a white open-collar OCBD. What type and color shoes do you wear?


----------



## arkirshner

KJD89 said:


> Camel duffel coat with khakis - would that be weird? I like the look of a camel coat but I can't think of what pant colour would go well with them. I'm looking at chinos/cords only, really, as I have no reason to wear any sort of dress pants with it if purchased.


There is no "rule" that the color of a coat should contrast with the color of pants. For example, a grey chesterfield is commonly worn over both navy and grey suits. A duffel coat and khakis are at the same level of formality, that is to say they are appropriate together. Perhaps the best know man to regularly wear a duffel cost, Field Marshall Montgomery, wore a camel color coat over both his tan and olive pants. He also wore olive jackets, most of the time over khaki pants. He did not match the shade. https://egrstyle.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/mont31.jpg?w=500&h=343 If your pants are not an exact match you are fine. If you like more contrast, go with olive pants.


----------



## firedancer

sbdivemaster said:


> Hypothetical:
> 
> You're going to a casual, cocktail-type event, you're wearing some navy 14-wale cords and a white open-collar OCBD. What type and color shoes do you wear?


I would probably wear #8 longwings.

I really like cords and brogues together. It just seems right.


----------



## Eric W S

WouldaShoulda said:


> You are asked to defend your statement, you do so with remarkable clarity and wit, then you get accused of being "holier than thou!!"
> 
> Absolutely classic!!


Thanks, Enjoy the holiday weekend!

Eric


----------



## Jack1425

I am interested in stocking up on several pair of wigwams for the fall but the selection seems to be a tad overwhelming. Any recommendations as to models preferred, most comfortable? Jovan, Billax?

Also, I have obtained a gorgeous BB dinner suit from the vaults of TonyLumpkin (Excellent and very kind) and would enjoy some thoughts on finishing the classic ensemble. Example, proper shirt, tie, studs.. 

Thank you all in advance, Jack

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Jovan

Eric W S said:


> Just found my signature line. Thanks! Love the blog.


Glad to serve as your comedic relief.

I own a Mercer & Sons OCBD and it is quite well made. However, contrary to your experience, the bunched up excess fabric actually made me sweat more when wearing a jacket.  Plus seeing a beanpole like me in a full cut shirt... the effect is like looking at a chef's hat.

You should actually think of giving them a try. A great value under $100 for a USA-made shirt, there's "Classic Fit" for purists like you, and they'll even make a longer button-down collar (among other things) upon request. Made by the same shirtmakers (and I'm almost certain the same fabric) as USA-made Brooks Brothers OCBDs.


----------



## Jovan

WouldaShoulda said:


> You are asked to defend your statement, you do so with remarkable clarity and wit, then you get accused of being "holier than thou!!"
> 
> Absolutely classic!!


Aside from occasionally dissing my taste in music, hipsters have never done anything bad to me.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan said:


> Aside from occasionally dissing my taste in music, hipsters have never done anything bad to me.


You've never been to a party where art students have brought out the glow-in-the-dark face paint. The trick is to be drunk enough to enjoy it.

sbdivemaster:

For me, it would depend on the proportion of the pants. Longwings would be good (in burg or tan pebble grain). Pennies might work, or they might be a bit too "lightweight" against the pants for your taste. Tassels wouldn't have that problem.

This could be a nice opportunity to pull out lighter-colored tan shoes. I find they work with dark pants when the top half of the outfit is also a light color (like a white OCBD). It balances better than light shoes with dark trousers and a dark jacket, though you'd want to wear a tan belt to match.


----------



## Essential

Any idea what to wear for winter shoes? Something besides beater dress shoes and chukkas (if these are even trad?).


----------



## Billax

Jack1425 said:


> I am interested in stocking up on several pair of wigwams for the fall but the selection seems to be a tad overwhelming. Any recommendations as to models preferred, most comfortable? Jovan, Billax?


Jack, Sorry for the delayed reply. I didn't see your post until this morning. I have two models I regularly buy - both in crew length. They are:

El-Pine
Heavy weight, the original Wool Ragg sock • Homespun wool • 81% Wool 15% Nylon 4% Spandex

Husky
Medium weight, the original Homespun Wool athletic sock • 70% Wool 30% Nylon



​


----------



## hardline_42

Essential said:


> Any idea what to wear for winter shoes? Something besides beater dress shoes and chukkas (if these are even trad?).


Are you asking about casual shoes? If so, the winter version of summer casual shoes usually fits the bill. Instead of boat shoes, I reach for the or similar. A summer camp moc is replaced with a and some wool socks when it gets cold. Desert boots/chukkas instead of bucks. Also, any version of LL Bean's Bean Boot or Maine Hunting Shoe works when there's snow on the ground.


----------



## Jack1425

Billax said:


> Jack, Sorry for the delayed reply. I didn't see your post until this morning. I have two models I regularly buy - both in crew length. They are:
> 
> El-Pine
> Heavy weight, the original Wool Ragg sock • Homespun wool • 81% Wool 15% Nylon 4% Spandex
> 
> Husky
> Medium weight, the original Homespun Wool athletic sock • 70% Wool 30% Nylon
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Excellent, thank you! I went with two pairs of the 625's but think I will go with the El-Pine on my next go..


----------



## KJD89

How slim are bills m3s? I wear J. Crew classic fit and those no longer fit my legs (I've got giant thighs), and I'm looking for something a bit heavier than what J. Crew has to offer. I'd also like something with a higher rise. Any ideas?


----------



## eagle2250

^^KJD89:
M3's are pretty closely fit in the upper thigh area. They are also disturbingly low waisted for my tastes. You might want to consider Bill's M1 or possibly M2 designs. If you are not set on Bill's, take a look at what Orvis has to offer and also look at BB's Clarks advantage Chinos. Good luck in your hunt!


----------



## hardline_42

KJD89 said:


> How slim are bills m3s? I wear J. Crew classic fit and those no longer fit my legs (I've got giant thighs), and I'm looking for something a bit heavier than what J. Crew has to offer. I'd also like something with a higher rise. Any ideas?


M3 are definitely NOT the ones you want. I have both the classics and M3s. The thighs on the classics are positively billowy compared to the M3. The M3 has a very tight seat and thighs, low, uneven rise (unless you have no butt)) and little to no taper from the knee down. The classics have a slightly higher rise, fuller thighs (just the slightest bit too full for my taste) and much more taper.


----------



## dorji

Essential said:


> Any idea what to wear for winter shoes? Something besides beater dress shoes and chukkas (if these are even trad?).


Great response from Hardline. Adding to what he said, you can commission something from Rancourt https://www.rancourtandcompany.com/
with vibram soles, or possibly the hevea sole. If you want to get real serious check out Alden of Carmel https://www.alden-of-carmel.com/index.cfm/shoes.htm
for commando soled make-ups. Good luck!


----------



## KJD89

So would my best bet be the m2? I like slimmer fits for the general shape they give, but cannot wear them because of my 34" waist and 26" thighs. I'm kinda set on Bills right now because I've heard great things and would like to see if they live up to expectations. I'll still look at Orvis, though!


----------



## Jovan

I got a couple pairs of the M3 from the Trad Thrift Exchange and, with no offence meant toward the seller, I can see why he sold them there. I don't like them either because I had the same problems as Hardline. Better to take a pair of M2 and have them tapered.



Jack1425 said:


> Excellent, thank you! I went with two pairs of the 625's but think I will go with the El-Pine on my next go..


I love the 625s. They can get a bit sweaty in the summer, but they're good for cool fall and spring days.


----------



## Troglodyte

*Wittman Tailoring*



oxford cloth button down said:


> Can anyone make a recommendation for a good tailor in the Columbus/Dayton, OH area? Thanks in advance.


John Wittman does excellent work, both trad and modern.

Regards,
Trog


----------



## Jack1425

Jovan said:


> I got a couple pairs of the M3 from the Trad Thrift Exchange and, with no offence meant toward the seller, I can see why he sold them there. I don't like them either because I had the same problems as Hardline. Better to take a pair of M2 and have them tapered.
> 
> I love the 625s. They can get a bit sweaty in the summer, but they're good for cool fall and spring days.


Update: Wigwam 625's arrived yesterday and I wore them around with a pair of loafers.. I was actually surprised at how comfortable they were.. Very pleased!!


----------



## pusso

AldenPyle said:


> This is something I have always wondered. What is End on End material? Is it Trad? Would it work in a buttondown?


End on end is a shirting where the warp is one colour and the weft another (usually white)

Yes, it would work very well as a Trad shirt - some of my favourite shirts have been end on end.


----------



## BigTC

A hypothetical: If I were walking around an early-1960s Ivy League campus, what color of longwings would I be more likely to see -- a darker/chocolate brown, or a lighter/walnut brown? (Or maybe I'm off and it would be burgundy/cordovan?)


----------



## SLeiber

I'm looking to buy my first pair of Bean Boots and am a bit torn when it comes to color and height. From what I can find online it seems as though the tan mocs are far more popular when wearing chinos than are the boots. Any pictures I can find with tan boots the wearer is typically wearing jeans. Is that because the color of khaki chinos is too similar to the tan Bean Boots and by wearing the mocs you can better break up the look with socks?

I suppose my question is why is it rare to see tan Bean Boots paired with chinos, and if you could only have one or two pairs of Bean Boots/Mocs, which would be the most versatile for wear with both jeans and chinos?


----------



## hardline_42

BigTC said:


> A hypothetical: If I were walking around an early-1960s Ivy League campus, what color of longwings would I be more likely to see -- a darker/chocolate brown, or a lighter/walnut brown? (Or maybe I'm off and it would be burgundy/cordovan?)


Judging by the overwhelming amount of walnut/saddle colored longwings I see for sale on eBay, I'd say either those were the most popular, or the least popular and are the only ones left in decent shape from lack of wear.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

hardline_42 said:


> Judging by the overwhelming amount of walnut/saddle colored longwings I see for sale on eBay, I'd say either those were the most popular, or the least popular and are the only ones left in decent shape from lack of wear.


I see those fairly often in old photos. I assume they were cheaper than shell versions, and as a college student I can assure you that that is a motivating factor.


----------



## hardline_42

SLeiber said:


> I suppose my question is why is it rare to see tan Bean Boots paired with chinos, and if you could only have one or two pairs of Bean Boots/Mocs, which would be the most versatile for wear with both jeans and chinos?


Bean boots are currently experiencing a surge of popularity with the fashion/streetwear crowd. If you see them "styled" on websites, it's usually with denim because that's what appeals to that particular crowd. There is absolutely no reason why they can't be worn with khakis. The saddle tan colored leather is most traditional but both the brown and tan pair up with khakis just fine.

As for the most versatile style, I think the average person can get by with just two: the rubber mocs and the 8" boots. The mocs are great year round because of how easily they slip on and off, but they can't really handle much more than a light dusting of snow, wet grass or a little bit of mud. Their low cut makes them ideal for sockless wear in the spring and summer, but even with a pair of socks they don't offer much protection from the cold in winter. The 8" boots are a good height for everything else because they can handle moderate to serious snow, deep mud and can be worn with pants tucked or untucked. The rest of the models have their uses (except the 6" which I can't really get behind) but those two can handle the greatest variety of weather situations.


----------



## SLeiber

hardline_42 said:


> Bean boots are currently experiencing a surge of popularity with the fashion/streetwear crowd. If you see them "styled" on websites, it's usually with denim because that's what appeals to that particular crowd. There is absolutely no reason why they can't be worn with khakis. The saddle tan colored leather is most traditional but both the brown and tan pair up with khakis just fine.
> 
> As for the most versatile style, I think the average person can get by with just two: the rubber mocs and the 8" boots. The mocs are great year round because of how easily they slip on and off, but they can't really handle much more than a light dusting of snow, wet grass or a little bit of mud. Their low cut makes them ideal for sockless wear in the spring and summer, but even with a pair of socks they don't offer much protection from the cold in winter. The 8" boots are a good height for everything else because they can handle moderate to serious snow, deep mud and can be worn with pants tucked or untucked. The rest of the models have their uses (except the 6" which I can't really get behind) but those two can handle the greatest variety of weather situations.


Thanks! I think I'll start with the 8" boots in tan then add a pair of brown 8" boots or tan mocs somewhere down the road.


----------



## Himself

KJD89 said:


> So would my best bet be the m2? I like slimmer fits for the general shape they give, but cannot wear them because of my 34" waist and 26" thighs. I'm kinda set on Bills right now because I've heard great things and would like to see if they live up to expectations. I'll still look at Orvis, though!


I can't imagine the 34 M3 wouldn't fit. If not, you can try the M1.

I have some standard khaki 34 M2 going on the Exchange, hemmed to 30" with 3" to let out, brand new so re-hemming it wouldn't show. PM if you're interested.


----------



## eagle2250

BigTC said:


> A hypothetical: If I were walking around an early-1960s Ivy League campus, what color of longwings would I be more likely to see -- a darker/chocolate brown, or a lighter/walnut brown? (Or maybe I'm off and it would be burgundy/cordovan?)


Not claiming it was Ivy League, but I was walking the University Park campus of the Pennsylvania State University during those years and could frequently be seen wearing a pebble grained tan calf pair of long wings. When not wearing the long wings, it was a pair of burgundy Beef roll penny loafers.


----------



## The Rambler

that's what I remember, too.


----------



## ColonialBoy

*Shoes*

Im looking for summer shoes (here in thesouthern hemisphere).

I have two pairs of Sperry boat shoes (one with ASV soles, almost a walking shoe) and need to expend the wardrobe.

1. Can loafers, penny loafers, and 'driving shoes' all be worn without socks? 
The only slipon shoes I've had in the past were all office shoes meant to be with socks.

2. Is there any trad equivalent to these low rise canvas sneakers all the youngsters seem to be wearing?










They all seem to come in sizee D and I need EE.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

One can wear loafers without socks. Some people don't. I have one pair of loafers that are more comfortable without socks, and one pair that are more comfortable with socks. I wear them either way, because the comfort difference is minor. Driving shoes are far from trad. There's nothing wrong with them, or with wearing them with basically trad attire, but they wouldn't be my choice.

Canvas low-cut sneakers are definitely Ivy, as long as they're white. There are tons of them in Take Ivy, and forum member Billax recently posted a great thread (called, I believe "Sneakers") about his memories of picking out sneakers during the mid-1960s. He lists the brands he considered back then, all of which are available in somewhat adulterated form today. They don't make them like they used to, but they look right.

Now, a quick question of my own, for those members who recall wearing tan pebble-grain longwings: what did you wear them with? Did you treat them as more formal than Weejuns, or about the same?


----------



## Christophe

Quick question: Do Brooks Brothers Hudson fit khakis run a bit small in the waist? I know the Clark fit Advantage Chinos do, but how about the Hudson casual chinos (not-non-iron)? If someone could post a measure of the actual waistband and the tagged size, I would really appreciate that, but a general opinion will be helpful too. Thanks!


----------



## Orgetorix

No, none of the BB chinos run small or large in my experience, at least not consistently or by any appreciable amount. Every pair I've had, both Hudsons and Clarks, were TTS in the waist. Brooks is usually pretty good about that.


----------



## Walter Denton

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Now, a quick question of my own, for those members who recall wearing tan pebble-grain longwings: what did you wear them with? Did you treat them as more formal than Weejuns, or about the same?


I wore longwings on campus in the 60's, primarily with khakis. I guess I considered them about the same as, or slightly more formal than Weejuns. I had a roommate who had a pair of cordovan shell PTBs that I greatly admired but I couldn't afford them. He wore those shoes with everything.


----------



## Christophe

Orgetorix said:


> No, none of the BB chinos run small or large in my experience, at least not consistently or by any appreciable amount. Every pair I've had, both Hudsons and Clarks, were TTS in the waist. Brooks is usually pretty good about that.


 Org, thanks for the reply, your advice will be helpful.


----------



## Beastmode101

When is it alright to go belt less (Business casual vs Business)? I have a job fair-ish sorta event at my school and I don't have a belt to match my walnut colored shoes. Can I just forgo the belt?


----------



## firedancer

^ this can be tricky. Will your pants stay at your natural waist? Do your trousers have an extended tab closure? 

If my answer is yes to both of the above I skip a belt with confidence. 

If not, wear a brown belt that you own. It wont look great but at least your trousers will fit properly. And if you're wearing a jacket no one will see it anyways. 

This is the reason you should have black shoes and belt for an interview/job fair ish rig anyways. 
Good luck and knock em dead.


----------



## Beastmode101

^ Thank you for the advice. I appreciate it. I guess I'll go belt less then. 

Regarding your questions, the pants don't sit at my natural waist (They are my second pair of Milano fit chinos from BB) but they fit fine everywhere else (seat, legs, thighs). I believe they sit on my hips. I'm purchasing 2-3 more pairs chinos from BB this semester (going with the clarks next time b/c I like higher rises on my pants/chinos). And yep, they have an extended tab closure.


----------



## hardline_42

Beastmode101 said:


> When is it alright to go belt less (Business casual vs Business)? I have a job fair-ish sorta event at my school and I don't have a belt to match my walnut colored shoes. Can I just forgo the belt?


Do your pants have belt loops? If so, I'm afraid a belt is necessary. Unless they have side adjusters or brace buttons (and no belt loops) skipping the belt is a pretty glaring omission, IMO. A belt in some shade of brown would be ok with the walnut shoes. Of course, if your waist will be covered the entire time, you don't really have much to worry about.


----------



## Billax

hardline_42 said:


> Do your pants have belt loops? If so, I'm afraid a belt is necessary. Unless they have side adjusters or brace buttons (and no belt loops) skipping the belt is a pretty glaring omission, IMO. A belt in some shade of brown would be ok with the walnut shoes. *Of course, if your waist will be covered the entire time, you don't really have much to worry about.*


Hardline makes a great point here. If you're wearing a sweater or sweater vest, or your sport coat or suit jacket closes right near your belt loops - and is kept buttoned - no one will know. Well, that's true if you trousers stay in the same place throughout the event.


----------



## Beastmode101

Billax said:


> Hardline makes a great point here. If you're wearing a sweater or sweater vest, or your sport coat or suit jacket closes right near your belt loops - and is kept buttoned - no one will know. Well, that's true if you trousers stay in the same place throughout the event.





hardline_42 said:


> Do your pants have belt loops? If so, I'm afraid a belt is necessary. Unless they have side adjusters or brace buttons (and no belt loops) skipping the belt is a pretty glaring omission, IMO. A belt in some shade of brown would be ok with the walnut shoes. Of course, if your waist will be covered the entire time, you don't really have much to worry about.


Darn they do have belt loops. But thank you for the advice. I appreciate it. I will definitely be wearing a sweater of some sort then (I forgot my jacket and my suit so all I have are chinos, a button down, and a repp tie)


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Beastmode101 said:


> Darn they do have belt loops. But thank you for the advice. I appreciate it. I will definitely be wearing a sweater of some sort then (I forgot my jacket and my suit so all I have are chinos, a button down, and a repp tie)


I have seen people at job fairs in short-sleeve safari shirts with jeans, sneakers, and fedoras. You will likely be good. I don't think it's a problem to wear two shades of brown in belt and shoes.


----------



## seathingie

Gentlemen:

Can someone enlighten me? I prefer the trad jackets (three button, no darts) and flat front trousers. However, I see companies such as Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren making many garments that are unsuitable to my tastes, specifically jackets with darts. The problem: I find such beautiful fabrics and I want them, but the jackets are darted e.g. I saw an amazing rich brown Ralph Lauren suit: cashmere/wool blend with a cream windowpane pattern. The fabric was delicious BUT the jacket was darted and the pants, pleated. What to do (bespoke is not a consideration)?

What style are these darted jackets considered? Are darted jackets/pleated pants a style from a bygone era or are they "modern"? Are they British-style? 

Thank you...this forum is tremendously helpful!

Seathingie
San Francisco


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

seathingie said:


> Gentlemen:
> 
> Can someone enlighten me? I prefer the trad jackets (three button, no darts) and flat front trousers. However, I see companies such as Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren making many garments that are unsuitable to my tastes, specifically jackets with darts. The problem: I find such beautiful fabrics and I want them, but the jackets are darted e.g. I saw an amazing rich brown Ralph Lauren suit: cashmere/wool blend with a cream windowpane pattern. The fabric was delicious BUT the jacket was darted and the pants, pleated. What to do (bespoke is not a consideration)?
> 
> What style are these darted jackets considered? Are darted jackets/pleated pants a style from a bygone era or are they "modern"? Are they British-style?
> 
> Thank you...this forum is tremendously helpful!
> 
> Seathingie
> San Francisco


Darted jackets are not from a bygone era. Dartless jackets, more or less, are.

Flusser calls this style "updated American," though he's referring predominately to '80s Polo -- two button, darted, center vent, plain front trousers, and natural shoulders. Pleated trousers are generally more English or Italian, depending on the direction of the pleats. I find forward pleats (those that open towards the fly) are actually pretty nice. Pleats are sort of "out," because oversized reverse-pleated pants were very not so long ago, though I suspect single forward pleats will become more popular over the next ten years, but plain fronts will remain current for a while too.


----------



## Essential

Anyone have experience with LS Men's entry level MTM shirts? For $65 a pop, it's better than me buying the smallest shirts at BB and getting them tailored for ~$30.


----------



## Eric W S

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Darted jackets are not from a bygone era. Dartless jackets, more or less, are.
> 
> Flusser calls this style "updated American," though he's referring predominately to '80s Polo -- two button, darted, center vent, plain front trousers, and natural shoulders. Pleated trousers are generally more English or Italian, depending on the direction of the pleats. I find forward pleats (those that open towards the fly) are actually pretty nice. Pleats are sort of "out," because oversized reverse-pleated pants were very not so long ago, though I suspect single forward pleats will become more popular over the next ten years, but plain fronts will remain current for a while too.


Bastian just put out a new tweed odd jacket in 3/2, dartless and looks to have natural shoulder. Dartless is out there just have to know where to look. Calling it bygone is not exactly true when you can still get them from Press, Andover, ...etc.


----------



## FiscalDean

seathingie said:


> Gentlemen:
> 
> Can someone enlighten me? I prefer the trad jackets (three button, no darts) and flat front trousers. However, I see companies such as Brooks Brothers and Ralph Lauren making many garments that are unsuitable to my tastes, specifically jackets with darts. The problem: I find such beautiful fabrics and I want them, but the jackets are darted e.g. I saw an amazing rich brown Ralph Lauren suit: cashmere/wool blend with a cream windowpane pattern. The fabric was delicious BUT the jacket was darted and the pants, pleated. What to do (bespoke is not a consideration)?
> 
> What style are these darted jackets considered? Are darted jackets/pleated pants a style from a bygone era or are they "modern"? Are they British-style?
> 
> Thank you...this forum is tremendously helpful!
> 
> Seathingie
> San Francisco


While bespoke may not be an option, you may want to consider the made to measure option. Most haberdashers carry a line of MTM and offer a discount at some point during the year. Many have trunk shows where a rep from the company comes in with the latest fabrics. Most often there are discounts for ordering during the trunk shows. Southwick may be your best option for the type of clothing you're looking for. You may want to check the Southwick web site for a retailer in the San Francisco area. I believe Cable Car Clothiers offers Southwick but they're MTM pricing comes dangerously close to bespoke pricing. Southwick may have other retailers in your area. Good luck.


----------



## Pink and Green

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I have seen people at job fairs in short-sleeve safari shirts with jeans, sneakers, and fedoras.


Magnum, P.I. was there? Did you get an autograph?

But seriously. Anyone own any J. Press polo shirts? Do they have tennis tails? What do you think of them?


----------



## LouB

What is causing this severe fold? If i keep the coat buttoned, it looks better, but if left unbuttoned it almost folds back on itself. Can it be fixed?


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Take it to a cleaners and get it pressed? Possibly caused by being stored in a wrinkled state.


----------



## seathingie

Which state would that be?


----------



## Beastmode101

*In regards to shrinkage in the washer and dryer*

I'm curious as to how you men of the AAAC board accommodate for shrinkage when buying shirts and pants.

I*'m usually a 14.5/32 off the rack with no washing nor drying, and these shirts fit me perfectly.* However, when I wash my clothes, I tend to hang dry my pants and shirts so that they won't shrink any further.

S*hould I be buying shirts in 15/33 (Extra Slim Fit from BB) to take into account the shrinkage if I throw them in the dryer?* I'm assuming the collar will shrink to 14.5 and the sleeves will shrink to 32 inches. I have the same question regarding pants, which I'm normally a 31/30 in, but I'm considering moving to a 32/30 (Milanos fit me perfectly but the rise is too low, so I'm switching to the clark fits).

I'm college student so I don't really have time hang drying my clothes and waiting for them to dry :/ 


What I found on the AAAC board- Andy: "Shirts are made to shrink to their final size after being washed four or five times! Most shirt makers know how to allow for this shrinkage to get the exact fit. " and "
It's a good idea to have your tailor make pants at least ¼" longer than you think they should be to allow for shrinkage. Most pants shrink in the length even if you dry-clean them. It's almost worth it to go to your own tailor it's best to wash or dry clean trousers prior to finishing the cuffs".


----------



## firedancer

^ it seems like you answered your own question in the final paragraph. 

Trousers don't shrink in the waist. If you get your pants taken in from a tailor make sure they're laundered before hand. 

As for shirts, I buy my normal size and dry them on low. Shrinkage really isn't an issue. 

Generally I like to launder my clothes properly and avoid high heat in the dryer.


----------



## SLeiber

I have two quick questions.

1) I'm looking to buy some oxfords during the Brooks Brothers F&F sale. The only attractive looking oxfords I see available in the extra-slim fit are of the dress variety, not sport shirts. Are these shirts going to be too formal to wear casually with Rugby RL chinos, shorts, sperry, etc?

2) I bought a Ralph Lauren cable knit lambswool sweater at the outlet mall a week or two ago. I really like it, but when I got home and put it on I noticed that it's sort of loosely knit. By loosely knit I mean that you can see my undershirt through many parts of the sweater. Is this typical or a cableknit sweater, or is it just this particular model or did I just happen to get a bad sweater?

Thank you!


----------



## Beastmode101

firedancer said:


> ^ it seems like you answered your own question in the final paragraph.
> 
> Trousers don't shrink in the waist. If you get your pants taken in from a tailor make sure they're laundered before hand.
> 
> As for shirts, I buy my normal size and dry them on low. Shrinkage really isn't an issue.
> 
> Generally I like to launder my clothes properly and avoid high heat in the dryer.


Thank you for the input. I guess I'm sizing up in shirts now


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SLeiber: _Take Ivy_ and _The Original Preppy Handbook_ aren't so hard to find online. Read those, and that will answer your first question (with a resounding yes -- but you should roll your sleeves up). As to your second question, you should be wearing one of those same OCBDs under your sweater. Having a little bit of shirt showing through a sweater is no problem, but (at least 'round these parts) wearing a sweater without a collared shirt is _bad, _not to mention probably itchy.

Beastmode 101: I would not size up. I've read on here that BB's oxford cloth shirts do not shrink much, except for the white (for some reason). White OCBDs come in last place for me (tied with yellow), so that's not my concern (or, it won't be when I have money for BB shirts), and so I would suggest buying your normal size and drying them on low, or "delicate," or what have you.

OTOH, I'm a 15-33, so if you really wanted to buy shirts a size up, you could mail them to me if they didn't shrink as much as you expect them to. :devil:


----------



## SLeiber

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> SLeiber: _Take Ivy_ and _The Original Preppy Handbook_ aren't so hard to find online. Read those, and that will answer your first question (with a resounding yes -- but you should roll your sleeves up). As to your second question, you should be wearing one of those same OCBDs under your sweater. Having a little bit of shirt showing through a sweater is no problem, but (at least 'round these parts) wearing a sweater without a collared shirt is _bad, _not to mention probably itchy.
> 
> Beastmode 101: I would not size up. I've read on here that BB's oxford cloth shirts do not shrink much, except for the white (for some reason). White OCBDs come in last place for me (tied with yellow), so that's not my concern (or, it won't be when I have money for BB shirts), and so I would suggest buying your normal size and drying them on low, or "delicate," or what have you.
> 
> OTOH, I'm a 15-33, so if you really wanted to buy shirts a size up, you could mail them to me if they didn't shrink as much as you expect them to. :devil:


Thanks! I fully intended to wear an OCBD under the sweater. I just wanted to ensure that I hadn't gotten a faulty sweater.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SLeiber said:


> Thanks! I fully intended to wear an OCBD under the sweater. I just wanted to ensure that I hadn't gotten a faulty sweater.


I can dig it. There's a pretty wide range of thicknesses that are acceptable in sweaters -- though if yours is tightly-knit in some areas and loose in others, that could be a problem. Also, it is of course totally valid to prefer sweaters that are closer-knit or made from finer gauge yarn -- though I prefer mine knit somewhat loosely from rather thick yarn.


----------



## Dovid

SLeiber said:


> 2) I bought a Ralph Lauren cable knit lambswool sweater at the outlet mall a week or two ago. I really like it, but when I got home and put it on I noticed that it's sort of loosely knit. By loosely knit I mean that you can see my undershirt through many parts of the sweater. Is this typical or a cableknit sweater, or is it just this particular model or did I just happen to get a bad sweater?
> 
> Thank you!


I have cableknit sweaters that don't show the color of the shirt underneath at all. I am not familiar with the sweater you purchased, but I would consider exchanging it for something else. I associate the see-through with downmarket cotton or all acrylic sweaters.


----------



## rwaldron

Are there any decent stores worth checking out in the Highlands-Cashiers area of North Carolina?


----------



## Mossback

Can you wear poplin after Labor Day when the weather is hot?


----------



## firedancer

Billy Lee said:


> Can you wear poplin after Labor Day when the weather is hot?


Yep.

I see you're in Virginia? Although it's not the deep south I'm sure you have Plenty
Of balmy days ahead.

I wear navy and olive poplin suits as long as the weather calls for it.

I'm hesitant to pull out the light tan because it feels to summery to me.

Just my .02$.


----------



## jimw

*Opinions on AE Kenwoods*

I'm looking to pick up a pair of AE Kenwoods, and am torn between the Dark Brown Saddle and the Tan Saddle. I can only afford one pair, and am looking for opinions on what would be more versatile.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## eagle2250

^^Good afternoon Jim:
Dark brown saddle and tan saddle are both excellent colors for the Kenwood. However, I think the darker hue will prove more versatile in properly coordinating with your daily kit. Enjoy those new Beef roll penny loafers!


----------



## Billax

Hello, Jim. Given the way you framed your question, I completely agree with eagle. Of course, he and I are both quite fond of Kenwoods, so we'd definitely offer encouragement. Nonetheless, there is a different way to frame the question that could yield a different answer. If you had said, "I have several pairs of loafers in my rotation, one of which is brown, but I do not have any tan loafers. What would you recommend. Then, having brown loafers already covered, I'd opt for the tan. As eagle points out, brown is definitely more versatile, but if that base is already covered, those tan Kenwoods do draw admiring looks and quite a few compliments.

Just a different way of looking at the choice. Either way, Kenwoods are great casual shoes!


----------



## jimw

*Kenwoods*



Billax said:


> Hello, Jim. Given the way you framed your question, I completely agree with eagle. Of course, he and I are both quite fond of Kenwoods, so we'd definitely offer encouragement. Nonetheless, there is a different way to frame the question that could yield a different answer. If you had said, "I have several pairs of loafers in my rotation, one of which is brown, but I do not have any tan loafers. What would you recommend. Then, having brown loafers already covered, I'd opt for the tan. As eagle points out, brown is definitely more versatile, but if that base is already covered, those tan Kenwoods do draw admiring looks and quite a few compliments.Just a different way of looking at the choice. Either way, Kenwoods are great casual shoes!


Thank you for your comments. No, I do not own tan loafers, but I think brown will be the better choice, nonetheless. Perhaps in a couple of years I'll be able to afford another pair!I have a pair of cordovan colored Weejuns (which I quite like), and hopefully these will serve me for awhile yet. I'll have to go and try them on first - they have EEE sizes, and that may or may not be wide enough. I've learned the heartache of ordering shoes sight-unseen, and then having to send them back!Cheers,Jim


----------



## seathingie

I like the tan pair of loafers better than the dark brown. I think it depends on your wardrobe. If you prefer lighter khaki pants, in a stone color for example, then the lighter brown shoes would be nice. That being said, I did have a tan pair of loafers that I did not wear much. I love cordovan color and I like the way it looks with the greys, khakis, and tartan trousers.


----------



## Jovan

Call me crazy, I don't really care for the way AE loafers look. Something about them is just a little TOO finished and TOO refined. Companies like Rancourt on the other hand have more of a homemade, rustic look which I think is preferable. They are casual shoes after all.

With apologies to Paul Grangaard and AE lovers everywhere.


----------



## Billax

You have a more discriminating eye than I, Jovan.

One of these is the AE Kenwood and the other is the Rancourt Beefroll penny. I really can't tell them apart...


----------



## Brio1

What is the traditional width for a black silk knit tie? three inches or two inches? Thanks.

https://www.jpressonline.com/neckwear_solid_detail.php?id=TIEKNITJ_BLK

https://www.jpressonline.com/neckwear_solid_detail.php?id=TIEKNIT5CMT_BLK


----------



## Jovan

Billax: Top is Rancourt, bottom is AE. Look at the thread used on the beefrolls and the moc construction. Overall the AEs look a little more dainty to my eye. But I guess some people like that, and that's fine.


----------



## firedancer

^ do you own either Jovan?


----------



## BigTC

Does BB's after-Christmas sale typically include discounts on shoes? 

(Reason I ask: I'm in the market for my first pair of shell wingtips and wondering if I should jump on A-E's "Rediscovering America" sale that's going on right now, or wait to score some Aldens from Brooks after Christmas if the price is a little more budget-friendly.)


----------



## knucklehead

A question about when to wear bow ties.

I like bow ties. But I don't generally wear one to work because I fear that people won't take me seriously. (A non-trad colleague told once told me that guys who wear bow ties have no credibility with him.) Only in social situations do I put one on. Are my concerns well taken? Does any one else similarly limit the times he wears a bow?


----------



## Jovan

firedancer said:


> ^ do you own either Jovan?


Niet. These are just my observations.


----------



## firedancer

^ the only reason I ask is that it seems pretty factual that AEs shoes often look different in person. Everything above the sole on their handsewns look just fine to me. 

That said, I agree with your sentiment. You buy meat from the butcher right? You should also buy Handsewns from the guys where that's all they do. 

If you so choose of course.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Didn't AE at one point have their handsewns' produced under contract at the Rancourt production facilities? Hence the many similarities noted by member Billax. :icon_scratch:


----------



## BiffBiffster

My understanding is that the previous version of the Rancourt's business (which was owned by Mike Rancourt and his wife) produced shoes for AE and the company was subsequently acquired by AE.

Mike then worked for AE before starting the current business with his son, Kyle.

Edit: It is also my understanding that after Mike Rancourt left, AE started producing handsewns in their own facilities in Wisconsin.

Also I believe that AE still owns the rights to some of Mike Rancourt's designs. So I would expect some similarities in current offerings despite production by two different companies.

It would be interesting if someone posted pictures of Cole Haan beef rolls from the '80s that were produced by the company owned by Mike and his father. I bet they look like the shoes in the pics up thread!



eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Didn't AE at one point have their handsewns' produced under contract at the Rancourt production facilities? Hence the many similarities noted by member Billax. :icon_scratch:


----------



## seathingie

Gentlemen:

Can you tell me how you solve the problem of sport coats being too tight when worn with sweaters? Do you maintain a stock of larger coats to be worn with sweaters and a set of smaller coats to be worn with just a shirt and undershirt?

Thanks!
Seathingie
San Francisco, California


----------



## firedancer

Seathingie, 
What kind of sweaters are you wearing. Geesh. 

Just kidding. I can usually layer a sweater under most of my jackets just fine. I usually wear finer gauge sweaters though. Even Shetlands really aren't all that thick. 

That being said, I do have a few jackets that aren't as tailored that work really well and comfortable layered with a sweater and scarf. 

In short, think about how tailored/tight you want your jackets to fit in the first place. You might want to change that for those chilly NOCA nights.


----------



## Billax

seathingie said:


> Gentlemen:
> 
> Can you tell me how you solve the problem of sport coats being too tight when worn with sweaters? Do you maintain a stock of larger coats to be worn with sweaters and a set of smaller coats to be worn with just a shirt and undershirt?
> 
> Thanks!
> Seathingie
> San Francisco, California


Hey, Seathingie, fellow NorCal guy here. I wear only lightweight lambswool sweater vests with my sport coats. Even a Shetland V neck would be too constricting under my sport coats. In my experience, it's all in how much excess shoulder/armhole room you have in you jacket. Mine don't have room for anything but a lightweight sweater vest. I just forego wearing heavy sweaters under my coats. Come to think of it, though, that would give me a reason to buy more tweeds!


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## seathingie

I have a penchant for heavy cashmere and chunky handknit sweaters e.g fisherman's sweaters. 

I am still summering at my beach cottage and live 100 yards from the Pacific Ocean. The north winds off the ocean can be rather cold regardless of season. In fact, strike the "summering"...I think I might just stay here!

seathingie
San Francisco and Davenport, CA


----------



## The Rambler

I like a heavy shetland sweater-vest under a tweed jacket on cold days. Something along these lines:


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## seathingie

Very nice, Rambler! I love Fair Isles!


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## The Rambler

So do I, particularly the heavy shetland ones made from the wool of the local sheep. The lambswool versions, which are quite popular lately, can be very good-looking, but they're too lightweight for the purpose you mentioned. I find the long sleeved fisherman-type sweaters impossible to stuff into a tweed coat (and I'm not willing to buy bigger sizes to accomodate the bulk), which is why I go for the sweater-vest.


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## Jovan

In my experience this is mostly a problem with the sleeves. So... wear a sleeveless sweater?

I have a stupid question though: Fitted popover shirts are popular as of late, and I've considered getting one but... how the heck does one put them on? As an experiement, I tried buttoning one of my shirts halfway and then slipping it over -- not an easy task, and near-impossible when the shirt is more fitted in the waist.

Don't tell me to wear a full cut, popover tent, because that ain't happening.


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## Orgetorix

This is a BB popover sport shirt, slim fit Large. It's not skin tight, but it's not a tent by any means. I can get it over my head just fine.

Pic is from an excursion to pick apples this weekend.


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## Topsider

Jovan said:


> Billax: Top is Rancourt, bottom is AE. Look at the thread used on the beefrolls and the moc construction.


Alternatively, look at the photo's filename.


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## Jovan

Orgetorix said:


> This is a BB popover sport shirt, slim fit Large. It's not skin tight, but it's not a tent by any means. I can get it over my head just fine.
> 
> Pic is from an excursion to pick apples this weekend.


How do you do it? I feel like I'm missing some sort of trick or I'm just addled in some way when it comes to this.



Topsider said:


> Alternatively, look at the photo's filename. :wink2:


But that's cheating!


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## LouB

Is a tie with small nautical flags a spring/summer tie, or can it be worn year-round?


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## firedancer

Here in the midwest this would be relegated to summer. Judging from you Avatar things may be a little different where the palmettos grow.


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## Orgetorix

Jovan said:


> How do you do it? I feel like I'm missing some sort of trick or I'm just addled in some way when it comes to this.


The body is big enough for me to get it over my shoulders. I put my arms through the sleeves, then wiggle it over my head and down over my shoulders. It's snug, but not that hard.


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## Jovan

...

D'oh. Thanks, I should have thought of that.


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## Topsider

Of course, you might not be able to get it off... :icon_scratch:


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## Jovan

I assume that he is able to get them off fine, since he said nothing to the contrary.


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## Topsider

I meant you.


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## Jovan

Oh, I see. Well, yes, that is a concern. :biggrin:


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## Jack1425

Am interested in a set of suspenders.. Any ideas or possible help with some Trad examples? I have several pair of flannels with suspender buttons and wish to explore the option this fall/winter.. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## dorji

Jack- I like Trafalgar for suspenders. I have some "hudson" ones that are nylon, and also a few patterned silk ones. They are nice enough, made in USA, and are $50-$90 and include a pretty nice set of buttons. Here is a link for you:
https://www.trafalgarstore.com/category/Trafalgar_Braces_and_Suspenders/194
they do run sales every once in a while, although I do not know when to expect the next one. They also have some beautiful themed suspenders, which are around $200. Nice to look at....


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## Jack1425

Dorji.. Thank you sir! Just what I was looking for actually...


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## leisureclass

So I have this older Brooks Tweed 3/2 Sack that I thrifted awhile back and everything about the fit is perfect, except the sleeves are a tad long. I finally got around to trying to take it to the tailor this afternoon and she basically said she wouldn't work on it because there's a hole in the sleeve, a wear spot smaller than a dime. That because of this it wasn't worth it to adjust. I was going to try and explain that it was to me, because you can't get a jacket like this anymore. 

Is this going to keep happening? Should I try and fix the hole my self and then get the sleeves professionally tailored after that? Or would that ruin the jacket all together? My thinking was that since the sleeves are long putting an extra piece of sleeve material behind the hole would be a cinch. Am I wrong?


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## firedancer

Not wrong at all. I've had some brooks tweeds repaired just like this. 

My tailor asked me if I was sure that I didn't want to get it reweaved. Because of its inconspicuous location I was sure. 

I can see it because I know where to look but I guarantee no one else can. 

And what kind of tailor turns down work?


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## Jovan

If you don't want to reweave it (which I would, personally), just insist that you want to get the sleeves taken up. Sometimes alterations tailors will fight you on things and try to recommend others, but in the end they won't turn down work.


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## indieprep

If I am wearing a casual trad sack suit in cotton, can I pair it with a grosgrain ribbon wristwatch or belt for a sporty casual look? (I am 18 BTW)


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## firedancer

^ I think this is a personal choice. 

I feel like you could make it work though. 

A resounding yes to the watch strap. 

A maybe to the belt. Most grosgrain belts have d rings for the buckle. This would be inappropriate in my opinion. 
A surcingle may work in its stead but I would stick to a solid belt with even the most casual suits exclusive of seersucker.


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## indieprep

Thanks firedancer. And yes, the grosgrain belt I was referring to is a surcingle, withe the leather ends and the grosgrain body.


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## leisureclass

Thanks for the advice guys, I guess I'll just have to shop around for tailors a bit more. Hopefully I won't have to reweave because it's on the back of a sleeve, not a very prominent spot, and I'm not looking to make that kind of investment, especially considering all the other thrifted stuff I have that needs adjusting.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I would wear, and have worn, a poplin suit with a d-ring grosgrain belt -- I wouldn't do it with a tie, though. 

Of course, I've worn a poplin suit with a polo shirt, too, so there's that.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

indieprep said:


> If I am wearing a casual trad sack suit in cotton, can I pair it with a grosgrain ribbon wristwatch or belt for a sporty casual look? (I am 18 BTW)


The answer is yes. I have seen Mr. Ensiferous do it quite well. Although he does it with a blazer it has made me a believer that it can be done well.


----------



## Jovan

indieprep: I'm assuming it's some shade of tan? White and blue seersucker, perhaps? Going tieless or wearing a casual belt and shoes works far better with summer suits than with a worsted wool city suit, because by their very nature they are more casual looking. This goes regardless of age, there are some guys three times your age or older who make it work. But again, not something I'd recommend with a regular suit, especially because they're nearly always in more "serious" colours like grey and blue. Just this guy's two credits.


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## indieprep

As I mentioned, it is a cotton, casual suit. It is a khakish tan I'd say.


----------



## SLeiber

I just bought these AEs and I'm unsure of how to take care of them. They're my first nice pair of leather shoes and I'd like to treat them right and make them last. I searched the forum, but am seeing a lot of different opinions and am having trouble determining the difference between polishes and creams.


----------



## seathingie

Congrats on the purchase! I think that one of the best things to do for shoes is keeping them on some nice cedar shoe trees.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

I have an embarrassingly silly question...

I picked up a pair of Trickers wingtip boots, but the combination of the flexible sole and softer, more pliable leather is causing me some worry.

Like most non-moccasin shoes, the shape of the toe doesn't follow the actual contours of your foot. 
In other, well-fitting shoes I'll have a gap between the end on the tip of the shoe's toe, and my actual foot, but because of the hard sole and stiff toe it goes unnoticed. 
However in my new boots because the sole is so flexible and the leather on the toe so much softer this gap is noticeable when stepping. It's a bit hard to describe, but I worry it's almost like wearing a shoe that's too big, and I'm afraid it'll trip me up, or crease bizarrely.
It's and just because it seems a bit different, I'm naturally regretting my purchase and fishing for confirmation that everything is okay.


----------



## lemmywinks

Would wearing Rancourt Ranger Mocs (literally a higher end version of the LL Bean Blucher Moc) look odd with grey wool trousers? I was planning on wearing a white or blue OCBD, top button unbuttoned.


----------



## The Rambler

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> I have an embarrassingly silly question...
> 
> I picked up a pair of Trickers wingtip boots, but the combination of the flexible sole and softer, more pliable leather is causing me some worry.
> 
> Like most non-moccasin shoes, the shape of the toe doesn't follow the actual contours of your foot.
> In other, well-fitting shoes I'll have a gap between the end on the tip of the shoe's toe, and my actual foot, but because of the hard sole and stiff toe it goes unnoticed.
> However in my new boots because the sole is so flexible and the leather on the toe so much softer this gap is noticeable when stepping. It's a bit hard to describe, but I worry it's almost like wearing a shoe that's too big, and I'm afraid it'll trip me up, or crease bizarrely.
> It's and just because it seems a bit different, I'm naturally regretting my purchase and fishing for confirmation that everything is okay.


The key is whether the widest part of the foot, at the ball, coincides with the widest part of the shoe. If you jam the foot forward in the shoe, how easy is it to stick in a couple of fingers at the heel? For me, one or two, tight fit, is ok. More than that, they may be too long, and you should exchange for a half size down.


----------



## Jack1425

Looking at Shetlands from LLB as I'm drawn to their price as an economy over BB.. My question is to sizing. Normally, medium in a BB fits the bill. Any thoughts on Bean sizing?


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----------



## oxford cloth button down

I ordered a small LLB Rag wool sweater this season and it fit like a BB medium Shetland in my opinion. It was larger in every dimension, but especially pit-to-pit and length. I would size down.

* if it weren't for the size issue i would have kept it. It had really nice weight to it. It would have been a bargain.


----------



## AldenPyle

lemmywinks said:


> Would wearing Rancourt Ranger Mocs (literally a higher end version of the LL Bean Blucher Moc) look odd with grey wool trousers? I was planning on wearing a white or blue OCBD, top button unbuttoned.


There are casual wool pants, so in that case obviously yes.

My rule of thumb is not to wear moccasin shoes with a sports coat and not to wear them with pants that were designed to be worn with a sports jacket. I guess you could find exceptions to the rule and some people can win by breaking the rules, but I think that rule of thumb is where I would start.


----------



## Jack1425

oxford cloth button down said:


> I ordered a small LLB Rag wool sweater this season and it fit like a BB medium Shetland in my opinion. It was larger in every dimension, but especially pit-to-pit and length. I would size down.
> 
> * if it weren't for the size issue i would have kept it. It had really nice weight to it. It would have been a bargain.


OCBD.. Thanks, just what I was looking for!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## ArtVandalay

Wow, this post made me look at this season's Bean Shetland offerings....price increase of 33% over last year. Glad I stocked up last year.



Jack1425 said:


> Looking at Shetlands from LLB as I'm drawn to their price as an economy over BB.. My question is to sizing. Normally, medium in a BB fits the bill. Any thoughts on Bean sizing?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## seathingie

As happens to the best of us, we change size as we age. Thus the collars of my ocbd shirts are too small (despite losing weight). Would it look wonky if I moved the collar button over a tad?


----------



## SLeiber

seathingie said:


> As happens to the best of us, we change size as we age. Thus the collars of my ocbd shirts are too small (despite losing weight). Would it look wonky if I moved the collar button over a tad?


I have done just this with two OCBDs of mine and it looks fine. I have 4 other OCBDs that could stand to shrink a little and I will probably be doing the same thing to them. I have a big neck relative to my body so this is a common problem for me.


----------



## SLeiber

What is a fair price for a used LL Bean Norwegian on eBay? Completed auctions are anywhere between $25-$65 and I'm not really sure why. Is that just a natural fluctuation in prices or is there some important variable I'm unaware of?


----------



## hardline_42

SLeiber said:


> What is a fair price for a used LL Bean Norwegian on eBay? Completed auctions are anywhere between $25-$65 and I'm not really sure why. Is that just a natural fluctuation in prices or is there some important variable I'm unaware of?


The only real difference in sweaters is that vintage Norwegians are made of 80/20 wool/rayon and new Norwegians are 100% wool. The consensus seems to be that the blend is harder wearing and more "original" which may affect prices. Other than that, it really depends on the condition of the individual garment.


----------



## Jack1425

ArtVandalay said:


> Wow, this post made me look at this season's Bean Shetland offerings....price increase of 33% over last year. Glad I stocked up last year.


Based on OCBD's reply, I ended up ordering a rag wool sweater in charcoal. I'm still eyeing a shetland though and figured them a bargain until your post of an increase of 33%!!!! Unreal..

Also ordered a pair of flannel lined chinos that have been on my "wish list" for some time..

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## SLeiber

hardline_42 said:


> The only real difference in sweaters is that vintage Norwegians are made of 80/20 wool/rayon and new Norwegians are 100% wool. The consensus seems to be that the blend is harder wearing and more "original" which may affect prices. Other than that, it really depends on the condition of the individual garment.


Are all of the 80/20 blends roughly the same, or do they very by time period too?


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## C. Sharp

Making an apples to apples comparison it is based on what the market will bear at the time. How many people want that model in that size. What you 100% do not want is the Chinese made model. A little background in 1965 L.L .Bean introduces the blue and white Norwegian sweater, it is a 80/20 blend. Sweaters with the cursive script label are older. Older models also tend to have the Birdseye traveling left to right (when looking at them)although I believe the direction was solely based on the whim of who set up the machine. By the mid to late 80's the pattern started going right to left. 

More later have to go.

Ok I am back.

As you folk know there was a about a two decade period when Bean did not sell the sweater. If you had one it was because you either bought one 1965 to 1988(?), inherited one or picked it up second hand(Thrift, EBAY etc.)
Then Bean reintroduced the sweater. The new sweater is made by the original manufacture but is in an all wool model. The odd thing is the mixed reviews on the new model. Outside of sizing issues which are individual to each buyer, I am not sure I see the downside on the new model. The new model all wool version seems to have the same sort of scratchy hand that the old ones have. Cuffs and collar seem the same also. I admit that the old ones have a nostalgic appeal but there was a reason they were an 80/20 blend back then. It was said the blend provided "strength" but what that meant was the wool was not good enough to stand on it own. In fact, this might sound more romantic then tragic to todays buyers, the wool was horribly abused, it was exposed to the elements, traveled on open deck water craft etc.


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## tgadd

I know winter is a few months off, but for those of you commuting in bad weather (slush/snow) do you roll your pants or tuck them in your boots? This will be my first Boston winter and planning to get a pair of 8" bean boots soon for my commute.


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## hardline_42

tgadd said:


> I know winter is a few months off, but for those of you commuting in bad weather (slush/snow) do you roll your pants or tuck them in your boots? This will be my first Boston winter and planning to get a pair of 8" bean boots soon for my commute.


I prefer to carefully tuck the pants into the boots. I fold the inseam side (kind of like the first step to pegging a pair of jeans) and try to make sure the outseam lies flat against my legs. This minimizes visible wrinkles after you take the boots off. I think rolling and then unrolling would look messier.


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## tgadd

hardline_42 said:


> I prefer to carefully tuck the pants into the boots. I fold the inseam side (kind of like the first step to pegging a pair of jeans) and try to make sure the outseam lies flat against my legs. This minimizes visible wrinkles after you take the boots off. I think rolling and then unrolling would look messier.


Too young to know about pegging a pair of jeans, had to look it up. But it's very similar to how I tucked in pants during ROTC. Just probably not doing it as tight and don't need elastic to hold it down.


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## firedancer

tgadd said:


> Too young to know about pegging a pair of jeans, had to look it up. But it's very similar to how I tucked in pants during ROTC. Just probably not doing it as tight and don't need elastic to hold it down.


You missed out!


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## Jack1425

Update..

Thanks to OCBD for the recommendation. 

Received my Ragg Wool sweater from LLB yesterday and must say I'm rather pleased. I ordered a medium in charcoal. The wool has a noticeable weight to it but I would not classify it as overly heavy. For my use that makes it very wearable even if the mercury tips up a bit. The fit is spot on in the shoulders and arms but it is a bit more full in the body but far from voluminous. The length of the sweater falls around two inches longer than I'd like but tucks under nicely and is not a deal breaker. It is not the polished, spot on fit a BB medium would be, but I'm 6' 184lbs and for right around $50, I'm not complaining. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## GregNYC

Hello, newbie here. I grew up preppy and trad. My father had a trad clothing style in Pasadena, CA in the 50s and 60s. After college I joined the Army, then attended grad school, and I got away from trad style while doing many other things. Now I'm interested in it again. I live in NYC, so the shopping is easy. The worst part is that I work in corporate IT, where some senior managers wear $60 shoes and carry backpacks to work. So I won't be able to wear suits unless I create occasions.

So I have three questions:

1. If I won't be wearing a lot of suits, what other options do I have? Blazers, sport jackets and ties would be fine.

2. How do I avoid making sartorial mistakes? I'm on vacation this week. Today I'd like to shop for a herringbone jacket or blue blazer, but I feel intimidated to begin, even at Broooks Brothers or J. Press. I've browsed through the forum and seen lots of posts expressing what seem to be rules held with certainty. I read "costumey," "sin," "crime," "offense against taste" and other confident judgments. I get the spirit behind this. I dimly intuit that these pronouncements express a gestalt, something that perhaps captures the soul of trad style. It is a gestalt that I would like to tap into as well. But I feel that I can still make mistakes even if I go spend a fortune at J. Press. So how do I educate myself? 

3. Many fora have local get-togethers. For example, I get together with wristwatch aficionados. Is there anything like that here?

--Greg


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## Youthful Repp-robate

1. Blazers, sport jackets, ties, fine. You can be as well dressed in a sweater and shirt as you can in a coat and tie. I'd want a navy blazer and then one jacket in a subtle tweed, plain and subdued.
2. If they're jerks, you can leave. Check out the WAYWT thread -- since the cool weather started about three weeks ago, it's been quite good. Look at Take Ivy, but don't take it too seriously. It's not the be-all-end-all. I wouldn't hesitate to ask for advice if I were seriously buying, either. You could perhaps check out the Museum at F.I.T., which is free, and swing through their exhibit on Ivy Style. Also, don't be afraid of making mistakes. It seems to me there are relatively few things that you can find at J. Press that will be universally and totally _wrong_, though some of them may prove to be of limited usefulness. Worst case: you buy something that you end up not wearing as much as you might.
3. Nope.


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## GregNYC

Thanks YR-r, this is good advice. I'd heard about the F.T.T. exhibit; I'll try to catch it on Friday. I bought Take Ivy. And splurged at J. Press on a navy blazer, several tweed sport jackets, and a few other things. I will dip into the WAYWT thread too for some daily inspiration. Thanks again!


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## mhj

A sport jacket length question.

Sorry I don't have a picture but the jacket comes down to middle of the last joint (fingernail joint) of my middle finger. The BOC measurement is 33", on one of my other jackets that I know fits well it is 30".
Is this unacceptably long? The shoulders, sleeves, body, etc. are fine.


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## Orgetorix

Sounds like that's probably a bit on the long side, but we'd have to see a picture to tell for sure.

Or can you have someone measure from the hem of the jacket to the floor while you're wearing it? That measurement should be close to the same as your ideal BOC length.


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## Youthful Repp-robate

mhj said:


> Is this unacceptably long?


Is it? There's room for subjectivity here. If you were to post a picture, you could get many opinions as to whether or not it's a well-fitting jacket that happens to be cut longer than normal, or if it's really too long.

GregNYC: Glad to help. Looking forward to seeing you in WAYWT.


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## g3dahl

If the 30" jacket fits properly, the 33" is most likely too long. I have had the best results using this method: compare the bottom of the jacket with the bottom of your backside. If the jacket ends more than an inch beyond, it's too long. 

Once you find the "sweet spot" BOC measurement for yourself, staying within an inch in either direction is usually safe, within three quarters of an inch is better. 

Taller individuals may have more margin on length, but I can't offer firsthand experience.


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## mhj

I'll see if I can get a picture. My 3 year old grandson broke the only full length mirror in the house and I've haven't had a chance to replace it yet.


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## Jovan

mhj: Post some pictures.


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## Jack1425

More of an aside really.. As a BB slim fit wearer, I truly feel like giving the standard fit a go for simple comfort. Because of the fit, I have been locked into BB for sizing, perhaps now I can explore other makers. 

I ponder the possibilities.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## mhj

Jovan said:


> mhj: Post some pictures.


Here are the long awaited pictures. My family is sure that I'm crazy now after asking my daughter to take these. I think the jacket looks longer in the pictures than it does in the mirror. Is it within the limits of acceptability though?

I don't have so much invested in it if it's not, I paid $5 at GW plus dry cleaning.


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## Orgetorix

Hard to tell without being able to see your legs for proportion. Looks maybe a little long, but you could get away with it. 

Shoulders look pretty big on you, though.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays

The Rambler said:


> The key is whether the widest part of the foot, at the ball, coincides with the widest part of the shoe. If you jam the foot forward in the shoe, how easy is it to stick in a couple of fingers at the heel? For me, one or two, tight fit, is ok. More than that, they may be too long, and you should exchange for a half size down.


Rambler, Thanks for the help.
Using that measure the shoes do fit. I think I'm just not used to such a flexible sole on this type of shoe.


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## GregNYC

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> GregNYC: Glad to help. Looking forward to seeing you in WAYWT.


Thanks! I'm going back to J. Press tomorrow. I'll hope to post something in the next few days!


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## knucklehead

Just bought a HF red plaid sport coat (Stewart, kind of like Eric Stratton's in Animal House). Wondering when I can wear it. My thinking is that I'm limited to holiday parties in November and December. Any advice? Thanks.


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## Patrick06790

knucklehead said:


> Just bought a HF red plaid sport coat (Stewart, kind of like Eric Stratton's in Animal House). Wondering when I can wear it. My thinking is that I'm limited to holiday parties in November and December. Any advice? Thanks.


Toga party?


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## knucklehead

Ha! Well said.


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## NathanielD

What is the consensus on fun socks? I am thinking of adding a few pairs of argyle and striped socks to my wardrobe.


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## hardline_42

NathanielD said:


> What is the consensus on fun socks? I am thinking of adding a few pairs of argyle and striped socks to my wardrobe.


Those sound like normal, everyday socks to me. For some ideas, check out oxford cloth button down's day-to-day sock wardrobe on the WAYW thread. Trad fun socks = no socks.


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## GregNYC

Suggestions for a tailor in midtown Manhattan? It's a simple job - hemming some Bill's khakis. I asked BB and J. Press, and they can only do trousers that one buys from them. :-( 

My office is 45th and Lex, I'd love to go during lunch. Thanks!


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## GregNYC

Another newbie question - waistcoats? I won't be wearing suits, but rather, blazers and tweed jackets with cuffed chinos or gray flannel trousers. I've always liked nicely tailored waistcoats, the ones with all those buttons and pockets. I did some searching on the forum here, and I get the idea that *knit *is about the only kind of waistcoat that is advisable, unless one is wearing a suit. Any further insights? Thanks!


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## C. Sharp

How about Paul Winston

Winston Tailors/ Chipp2
C/O Mid-City Tailoring
Lobby
28 West 44th Street
New York, NY 10036
( Phone 212 687-0850; Fax 212 687-5048).







GregNYC said:


> Suggestions for a tailor in midtown Manhattan? It's a simple job - hemming some Bill's khakis. I asked BB and J. Press, and they can only do trousers that one buys from them. :-(
> 
> My office is 45th and Lex, I'd love to go during lunch. Thanks!


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## C. Sharp

I will say there is a tradition for odd waistcoats. At one time they were embraced by both the old and young. I basis this on photos, articles and catalogs from the 1950's. This is an example of the look https://postimage.org/
photo hosting sites
It seems to have been a staple of traditional outfitters and still sold in establishments like the Andover Shop https://theandovershop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_19&products_id=67.
I see it as a post graduate look unless one is a natural young fogey. It is fastidious and also country. A bit of a throw back,romanticized Merry Old England via Brooks Brothers.

solid color Melton wool, wool tattersall, tweed and tartan seem the most common. Printed wool challis, Viyella and even madras sometime appear in the second hand market.



GregNYC said:


> Another newbie question - waistcoats? I won't be wearing suits, but rather, blazers and tweed jackets with cuffed chinos or gray flannel trousers. I've always liked nicely tailored waistcoats, the ones with all those buttons and pockets. I did some searching on the forum here, and I get the idea that *knit *is about the only kind of waistcoat that is advisable, unless one is wearing a suit. Any further insights? Thanks!


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## Billax

GregNYC said:


> Another newbie question - waistcoats? I won't be wearing suits, but rather, blazers and tweed jackets with cuffed chinos or gray flannel trousers. I've always liked nicely tailored waistcoats, the ones with all those buttons and pockets. I did some searching on the forum here, and I get the idea that *knit *is about the only kind of waistcoat that is advisable, unless one is wearing a suit. Any further insights? Thanks!


Browsing thru WAYWT will give you lots of examples of odd vests or waistcoats, in both 5 button & 6 button 5 styles. Here are some from just the last 30 days. A gentlemen's apparel portfolio should be fully vested.:smile:


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## GregNYC

*C. Sharp* - thanks for the tailor info and the great image. I get the same impression about odd waistcoats from the 50's print media. The fastidious country look, slightly tweedy or dandy, is one that I sort of like - living in NYC!

*Billax* - Those photos are very encouraging! In fact, I'd seen #3 last week, and was still in mind as I began thinking about waistcoats this week!

Thanks to both of you!!

--Greg


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## The Rambler

Based on the brilliant looks collected by Billax, above, and on the wide selection of very nice vests shown in the Fall catalogues I've been getting in the mail, I'd say that vests are making a comeback. I belong to a local fox hunt (the oldest in the country), where English style hacking attire has always reigned supreme, and there, westcoats, particularly tattersall, buff, and gold ones, have always been popular, but never so much as this year. And why not? - it's a wonderful part of the anglicized smart country look. Not quite right for City attire, of course, but I believe the three-piece business suit -enormously popular in the 50s an 60s, and persisting well in to the 80s, is also making a comeback.


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## Jack1425

"I belong to a local fox hunt"

Rambler, excellent..! All around. I have been trying for years to establish a confident seat, enough to participate..


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## The Rambler

What is your local hunt, Jack? When I lived in the Hudson Valley, we belonged to Rombout, a wonderful, sporty group.


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## Jack1425

Currently none.. Although, I did court Windy Hollow and they were VERY nice. The Bride and I will be moving to Montgomery in a few months, in an effort to keep "a closer eye" on the parents. After the dust settles I will be looking to review my options. I never "grew up" in the saddle, but it has ever been a passion of mine.. Horses are simply gorgeous animals..


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## arkirshner

Jack1425 said:


> Horses are simply gorgeous animals..


As are foxes, of all species.


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## Jack1425

arkirshner said:


> As are foxes, of all species.


Indeed.. Red Foxes are quit common in my area see them relatively close with amazing frequency. The "hunt" culture is also fantastically social and lets not forget the dogs..

Interesting.. Perhaps worthy of its own thread..

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## GregNYC

The Rambler said:


> Based on the brilliant looks collected by Billax, above, and on the wide selection of very nice vests shown in the Fall catalogues I've been getting in the mail, I'd say that vests are making a comeback.


I hope so. I've seen more vests in catalogues too. I was in BB twice this week. They sell odd vests. I even saw a manager there with a tattersall vest over a shirt and tie (sans jacket), but none one the sales staff or customers. I seem to be seeing more 3-piece suits too. But then that could be because they are now on my radar.


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## Jack1425

This is perhaps a silly thought, but with the recent (enjoyable) discussions 
In reference to vests/three piece suits, it has caused me to ponder the proper (for lack of a better term) way to secure ones jacket. Is it then more customary when wearing either a vest or sweater to leave the jacket open, secured or is it overall a matter of personal preference? 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## indieprep

What to wear with a black button-down collar black shirt with a coat of arms embroidered in the chest?
Much like the photo, but in plain cloth and black.


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## firedancer

^ don't wear that shirt.


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## indieprep

Got it as a gift, I'll have to wear it at least once...got it from an important person.


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## firedancer

Sorry so be so short then. 
Maybe some dark grey flannels?


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## indieprep

Thanks. Will try to wear that and not look bad in the shirt. I am 18 so I get the excuse for the loud shirt.


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## Christophe

Quick Question: Does anyone have a Joseph A Bank promo code for free shipping, or another deal? Thanks!


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## firedancer

^ Christophe, 
Have you checked the website? I'm hearing about a 70% off sale on the radio, I don't know specifics because I'm becoming professional at tuning out JAB ads. I do know this though, spend a certain amount of money and you get a free android smart phone! 
What the heck? I just don't get it.


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## Christophe

firedancer said:


> ^ Christophe,
> Have you checked the website? I'm hearing about a 70% off sale on the radio, I don't know specifics because I'm becoming professional at tuning out JAB ads. I do know this though, spend a certain amount of money and you get a free android smart phone!
> What the heck? I just don't get it.


Thanks for that, 70% off seems like a good deal (even for them)! Free android smart phone? I agree that sounds ridiculous, especially for a clothing shop. Thanks again.


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## arkirshner

indieprep said:


> What to wear with a black button-down collar black shirt with a coat of arms embroidered in the chest?
> Much like the photo, but in plain cloth and black.


A crew neck sweater?


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## Billax

Jack1425 said:


> This is perhaps a silly thought, but with the recent (enjoyable) discussions
> In reference to vests/three piece suits, it has caused me to ponder the proper (for lack of a better term) way to secure ones jacket. Is it then more customary when wearing either a vest or sweater to leave the jacket open, secured or is it overall a matter of personal preference?


For more than 50 years, I have left my suit coat unbuttoned when wearing a 3 piece suit. It may be that for "more than 50 years" I have been wrong. Even so, I am unwilling to change. Both the J.Press and Brooks Brothers websites currently display images of 3 piece '3 roll 2' suits with the middle button buttoned. Nonetheless, a quick perusal of Ivy League pictures from the late 50s and early 60s show the great preponderance of men wearing their suit coats unbuttoned when wearing a vest.

Based on conflicting evidence, I'd say it was a preference - though I'm clear in my preferences, foolhardy though they may be!


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## Jovan

Agree with Billax. Since the waist is covered, it's quite fine to leave the jacket open or closed at your leisure.


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## Jack1425

My thanks to both Billax and Jovan.. The question was truly weighing on me for reasons stated as well as practical ones. Having a three piece suit I have thus far refrained from wearing the vest and it has bothered me more or less over the last few months. For the most part, I have felt the suit looks great without the vest and buttoned and not so much with and buttoned.. I plan on giving it a go over the holidays. Thank you again gentlemen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Trevor

In buying my first pair of decent khaki's:

What color would you buy 1st? British Tan, Stone, Ect?

Should i buy them hemmed or un-hemmed? 

If un-hemmed, i am a size 30. Can i just buy a 34 or so and have them cut off the ends and hemmed?

Still trying to decide on a brand. We have a few of the major stores local... so im gonna try some on.


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## Patrick06790

Tan or British tan. Stone is okay but you'll get more mileage from the darker color.

If you're going to get them hemmed or cuffed by all means buy unhemmed. 

If you're going the mall or dept. store route your choices will be limited. Probably the best bet are the Ralph/Polo classic chino and Dockers D3. I own both and they are about what the LL Bean Double L used to be before they went non-iron. 

If there's an Orvis store near you that could work too, although be aware that Orvis caters to the well-fed sportsman. 

Best bang for the chino buck, in my experience, is at Lands End. I forget what they call their untreated chino now but the "tailored fit" is similar to Bill's M2. And you can have them cuffed or hemmed to the quarter inch. You can also request larger cuffs than the standard 1.5 inches.

And, speaking of Bill's, you could keep an eye on eBay or Sierra Trading Post and find unhemmed seconds for reasonable whip-out.


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## Trevor

Thanks for the tips!

Local stores to me are: Bills, Orvis, BB, Land's End @ Sears, plus most other stores.

I plan to goto all the stores and see what i like best. I will then probably try to buy online when i can get a deal.

Do most places sell un-hemmed? or is it special order? 

If i have to pay considerably more for un-hemmed... should i go that route, or save the money and get them in a 30 inseam? Is it worth spending the extra money?


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## Youthful Repp-robate

Trevor said:


> If i have to pay considerably more for un-hemmed... should i go that route, or save the money and get them in a 30 inseam? Is it worth spending the extra money?


I don't see the point to paying extra for un-hemmed trousers unless you are unsatisfied with the stock lengths you can get -- if you need a 31" inseam, say, or if you _really_ want cuffs. I say this as somebody wearing LE Tailored Fits that were finished with a 31" inseam and cuffs for no extra charge.


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## AncientMadder

Trevor:

Unhemmed is a pretty standard option and won't cost you extra. However, you may need to order them online.

As Patrick mentioned, Lands' End will cuff your pants for free when you place an online order. I've never trusted them to get the cuff size right, though-perhaps without reason-so I've always bought mine unhemmed and then taken them to my tailor after a wash. You might want to visit Sears and try a pair. If they don't have the exact configuration you're looking for, they'll help you place an online order right there in store and will wave the shipping cost.

Bills is the gold standard, with the price tag to match. You might also look into Jack Donnely, a US maker who forum-member Jovan reviewed recently: https://nouveauvintage.blogspot.com/2012/10/review-jack-donnelly-khakis.html


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## GregNYC

What's un-Trad about pleats?

One of my favorite Trad items is a great pair of khakis. Pleated or not? About all I know for sure is that in the U.S. Army, the khaki trousers and tropical worsteds had flat fronts. Wish I had kept mine from the mid-70s! I have a vintage pair of khakis from 1953 that fits me. Flat fronts. And the 1942 repro Buzz Rickson khakis have flat fronts as well.

But I admit to having ordered pleated Cramertons from Bills, and I'm fond of the pleated Elliots from BB.

Is it that historical element? There is nary a pleat to be found in *Take Ivy*, though the chinos depicted tend to fit like jeans. I do see pleats in some of the vintage photos in *Preppy: Cultivating Ivy Style*, though not on khakis.

Just last week I asked my J. Press salesman, "What are the rules about cuffs and pleats?" And he replied, "No rules." Any thoughts?

--Greg


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## Himself

Patrick06790 said:


> Best bang for the chino buck, in my experience, is at Lands End. I forget what they call their untreated chino now but the "tailored fit" is similar to Bill's M2. And you can have them cuffed or hemmed to the quarter inch. You can also request larger cuffs than the standard 1.5 inches.


Is that the Original Chino? I was thinking of getting some, but past experience with inseam length from LE gives me pause. If I order a certain length with 1.75" or 2" cuffs, will I get that? If not, is there a workable fudge factor?


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## Jack1425

Himself said:


> Is that the Original Chino? I was thinking of getting some, but past experience with inseam length from LE gives me pause. If I order a certain length with 1.75" or 2" cuffs, will I get that? If not, is there a workable fudge factor?


I too echo Bills chino offerings and favor the M2 for the slightly higher rise and overall comfort. In my experience they also wear like iron which may offset the higher cost in the long run.

For a compromise I like the fit of the BB Hudson chino which to "me" is "dressier" and slimmer in the leg without affecting the rise. BB's are of the non iron variety but I personally can live with that, especially when grabbing a pair or two during a sale.

It's been stated elsewhere that fit, brand etc while interconnected, are equally subjective. So a little trial and error may be necessary to find what works for you and makes you happy.

My 2 cents...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Himself

Jack1425 said:


> I too echo Bills chino offerings and favor the M2 for the slightly higher rise and overall comfort. In my experience they also wear like iron which may offset the higher cost in the long run.


I generally agree. Countless cheaper chinos have passed through my closet, practically unworn. With all I spent on those, I could have easily bought several more of the Bills that I almost always reach for.



> It's been stated elsewhere that fit, brand etc while interconnected, are equally subjective. So a little trial and error may be necessary to find what works for you and makes you happy.


Everyone is built slightly differently, and fit matters more than anything. A cheap chino may actually fit better and look better on _you_. So it pays to try 'em all.


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## Patrick06790

I think that's what it's called these days.

I have never had a problem with getting the right inseam and cuff size from LE. Once they sent the wrong size, but the other particulars were correct. Put the cuff request in the special instructions box - "1.75 inch cuffs please" seems to work.


Himself said:


> Is that the Original Chino? I was thinking of getting some, but past experience with inseam length from LE gives me pause. If I order a certain length with 1.75" or 2" cuffs, will I get that? If not, is there a workable fudge factor?


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## salgy

quick tradish question for you guys... correct me if i'm wrong, but my understanding (albeit a completely ignorant understanding) is that a 3 roll 2 traditionally occurred through years of not buttoning the top button of a 3b jacket... if this is the case, i have a 3b jacket that is probably 5 years old and looks like it wants to start rolling... my questions are: is it actually rolling? should i encourage this? discourage this? any way to speed it up? i can post pictures tomorrow if it will help... just let me know


----------



## arkirshner

salgy said:


> quick tradish question for you guys... correct me if i'm wrong, but my understanding (albeit a completely ignorant understanding) is that a 3 roll 2 traditionally occurred through years of not buttoning the top button of a 3b jacket... if this is the case, i have a 3b jacket that is probably 5 years old and looks like it wants to start rolling... my questions are: is it actually rolling? should i encourage this? discourage this? any way to speed it up? i can post pictures tomorrow if it will help... just let me know


3 roll 2s are cut that way by the maker. The top button hole is finished on the inside so that it will show on the outside.


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## SLeiber

I remember reading a post, either here or on a blog, recently about jacket lining, canvasing, how to determine quality, etc. Does anybody maybe know what I was reading as I can't seem to find it anymore. I am thinking about pulling the trigger on my first sport coat, but really don't know what to look for. More specifically, is it typical for a tweed jacket to be half-lined? I'm not sure if it's indicative of quality or functionality.


----------



## Orgetorix

SLeiber said:


> I remember reading a post, either here or on a blog, recently about jacket lining, canvasing, how to determine quality, etc. Does anybody maybe know what I was reading as I can't seem to find it anymore. I am thinking about pulling the trigger on my first sport coat, but really don't know what to look for. More specifically, is it typical for a tweed jacket to be half-lined? I'm not sure if it's indicative of quality or functionality.


I wrote about that on my blog recently. You can click on the "How to Thrift" link in my signature and find the post that way. It's Part 3: Details.


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## SLeiber

Orgetorix said:


> I wrote about that on my blog recently. You can click on the "How to Thrift" link in my signature and find the post that way. It's Part 3: Details.


That's it! Thank you.


----------



## MDP

Waxed cotton jacket...
What color is more versatile: brown or dark khaki?


----------



## inq89

Anyone ever heard of the brand "Flying Scotsman"? 

Thrifted a plaid made in USA, never heard of the brand before. It features a flying duck as a logo.

A simple AAAC search gave me one result, and it may be made be Sero. Any insight?


----------



## SLeiber

Are Kiwi shoe trees fine? Never used shoe trees before and they are what was locally available. Just want to make sure they won't end up hurting the shoe for whatever reason.


----------



## dalek

SLeiber said:


> Are Kiwi shoe trees fine? Never used shoe trees before and they are what was locally available. Just want to make sure they won't end up hurting the shoe for whatever reason.


The plastic ones? They're ok, but I'd rather have cedar ones . If you can wait a week or two, STP will offer a code somewhere between 30-50% off.


----------



## SLeiber

dalek said:


> The plastic ones? They're ok, but I'd rather have cedar ones . If you can wait a week or two, STP will offer a code somewhere between 30-50% off.


https://www.kiwishoeshine.com/Kiwi-Cedar-Shoe-Tree-for-Men_p_558.html

They're cedar, I'm just completely unfamiliar with shoe trees and shoe care in general. I bought my first pair of quality shoes recently (AE camerons on eBay) and am still working on learning how to take care of them i.e. do I use polish, shoe cream, what color polish/cream, etc


----------



## arkirshner

Orgetorix said:


> I wrote about that on my blog recently. You can click on the "How to Thrift" link in my signature and find the post that way. It's Part 3: Details.


Excellent piece on identifying true quality tailored clothing. Hats off to you.

Regards,

Alan


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I am thinking of purchasing a shawl cardigan. I think that this will allow me to get away with a tie at the office. What color would be more versatile, blue or grey? I am leaning towards grey, but navy may allow me to wear grey flannels.


----------



## arkirshner

oxford cloth button down said:


> I am thinking of purchasing a shawl cardigan. I think that this will allow me to get away with a tie at the office. What color would be more versatile, blue or grey? I am leaning towards grey, but navy may allow me to wear grey flannels.


Why not get the color in which you look best ?


----------



## MDP

MDP said:


> Waxed cotton jacket...
> What color is more versatile: brown or dark khaki?


Maybe being more specific will help:
I'm looking at picking up one of these I really like the contrast with the collar that happens with the dark khaki (Saddle) but I'm worried it would look weird with similar colored chinos. The khaki also just looks more trad to me but my trad sensibilities are still a work in progress.

Any opinions on which would be a more versatile color?


----------



## Jack1425

oxford cloth button down said:


> I am thinking of purchasing a shawl cardigan. I think that this will allow me to get away with a tie at the office. What color would be more versatile, blue or grey? I am leaning towards grey, but navy may allow me to wear grey flannels.


Same dilemma OCBD... I am sure that Navy would look great with a pair of flannels.. But for me the grey won out.. I am pulling the trigger on the Rugby Shetland Cardigan which happens to be on sale for $69 from $128 I believe..


----------



## oxford cloth button down

arkirshner said:


> Why not get the color in which you look best ?


I wish I knew which I looked better in. I am not good at judging this.



















Maybe grey?


----------



## stcolumba

oxford cloth button down said:


> I am thinking of purchasing a shawl cardigan. I think that this will allow me to get away with a tie at the office. What color would be more versatile, blue or grey? I am leaning towards grey, but navy may allow me to wear grey flannels.


I vote "Navy". It goes with more colors.


----------



## Orgetorix

SLeiber said:


> https://www.kiwishoeshine.com/Kiwi-Cedar-Shoe-Tree-for-Men_p_558.html
> 
> They're cedar, I'm just completely unfamiliar with shoe trees and shoe care in general. I bought my first pair of quality shoes recently (AE camerons on eBay) and am still working on learning how to take care of them i.e. do I use polish, shoe cream, what color polish/cream, etc


Those will work fine, but a full heel that fills the heel of the shoe is more preferable. These from Jos. A. Bank are on sale at 50% off, $12.50. They'd be a better option.


----------



## dalek

Orgetorix said:


> Those will work fine, but a full heel that fills the heel of the shoe is more preferable. These from Jos. A. Bank are on sale at 50% off, $12.50. They'd be a better option.


good advice from O above. Another thing to look for is a split toe on the shoe tree, so it actually fills all of the front part of the shoe. The kiwi ones are a whole lot better than nothing, and better than the plastic ones, but the split-toe/full heel ones are the best. Try to find pinker ones, which are made from the more active parts of the cedar tree (something I learned recently).

As far as care, try not to wear the shoes two days in a row, if possible, use the shoe trees, and use polish sparingly. The "mac method" is the way to go. When I get a pair of used shoes in, I clean them with lexol leather cleaner and use the appropriate colored creme afterwards (I use AE stuff, and went nuts at a recent 50% off sale and have a ton of colors in both creme and polish). Most scratches will come out with a damp cloth and some elbow grease. I usually brush my shoes the night before I wear them. Eventually, you'll need a bunch of brushes, since you don't want to mix colors with them (using your brown brush on black shoes makes it your second black brush pretty quick). I like the Star brand horsehair brushes, which are reasonably priced. Hope this helps!


----------



## wrwhiteknight

oxford cloth button down said:


> I wish I knew which I looked better in. I am not good at judging this.
> 
> Maybe grey?


Definitely grey.


----------



## wrwhiteknight

I purchased this tie yesterday, and I am wondering if it is Trad. I thrifted it, so I think somehow that is a point for it, and I think that it is vintage, so another point? But, it is made in Italy, which I think is a point against. It was made for a hip mens shop from the Netherlands, but with a French name, so maybe 1 or 2 points against, but I think that it has a Trad type pattern so a point for? Maybe? Also, I don't know how the little horse and dog fit into the Trad image.


----------



## Orgetorix

Yes. That tie is quite trad.


----------



## SLeiber

Trad and pretty cool. I'm a bit jealous.


----------



## TradThrifter

That is a beautiful tie! Without knowing the history of it I think I'd have also made the purchase.


----------



## Trevor

Are cords supposed to be flat front just like khaki's? Cuffs?


----------



## Trevor

wrwhiteknight said:


> I purchased this tie yesterday, and I am wondering if it is Trad.


Really cool tie. I like the little horse lol.


----------



## arkirshner

oxford cloth button down said:


> I wish I knew which I looked better in. I am not good at judging this.
> 
> Maybe grey?


Yes, the grey is better, but it is no where near optimal. The navy overwhelms your face while the grey is better only because it is not so dark.The best thing in either picture is your light blue shirt. You really ought to get a copy of Color for Men https://www.amazon.com/Color-Men-Carole-Jackson/dp/0345345460 which has been discussed numerous times, most recently https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...h-olive-skin-and-dark-hair-considered-winters. For a few dollars this book will save you hundreds , maybe thousands, because you won't buy things that don't really work.


----------



## SLeiber

Going out on a limb here. I was at a Brooks Bros outlet yesterday and tried on a blue blazer in an effort to find out my size. I measure a 36" chest and thought that's what I would wear, but they only had a 38R. I tried it on and it actually fit great. My problem is, it didn't have any sort of cut associated with it. I asked the sales associate and she didn't know. She asked another who said she thinks they are the Madison fit.

Does anybody know if the 346 blazers all correspond to one retail cut, and if so which cut that is? They didn't have a measuring tape handy for me to just take measurements so I could know what to look for across brands.

Thanks


----------



## Barrow Jacket

*The real OCBD?*

Very confused about which OCBD from BB is the "real deal" Trad OCBD bc they sell so many dang different ones.

Is it this one? I got this in blue bc it was made in USA.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Classic-All-Cotton-Traditional-Fit-Original-Polo®-button-down-Oxford-Dress-Shirt/001E,default,pd.html?dwvar_001E_Color=BL&contentpos=1


----------



## SLeiber

Barrow Jacket said:


> Very confused about which OCBD from BB is the "real deal" Trad OCBD bc they sell so many dang different ones.
> 
> Is it this one? I got this in blue bc it was made in USA.
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Classic-All-Cotton-Traditional-Fit-Original-Polo®-button-down-Oxford-Dress-Shirt/001E,default,pd.html?dwvar_001E_Color=BL&contentpos=1


I'm not entirely sure either, but I have these and they're pretty solid.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Barrow Jacket said:


> Very confused about which OCBD from BB is the "real deal" Trad OCBD bc they sell so many dang different ones.
> 
> Is it this one? I got this in blue bc it was made in USA.
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Classic-All-Cotton-Traditional-Fit-Original-Polo®-button-down-Oxford-Dress-Shirt/001E,default,pd.html?dwvar_001E_Color=BL&contentpos=1


The American-made one is generally the standard.


----------



## KJD89

Is there a certain type of fabric I should look for in a navy blazer? I don't own one, I could really use one, but I'm not sure how casual some fabrics may make the jacket - is hopsack more casual than herringbone, etc. Which would be the most versitile fabric, and where should I get it from?

Thanks.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

arkirshner said:


> Yes, the grey is better, but it is no where near optimal. The navy overwhelms your face while the grey is better only because it is not so dark.The best thing in either picture is your light blue shirt. You really ought to get a copy of Color for Men https://www.amazon.com/Color-Men-Carole-Jackson/dp/0345345460 which has been discussed numerous times, most recently https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...h-olive-skin-and-dark-hair-considered-winters. For a few dollars this book will save you hundreds , maybe thousands, because you won't buy things that don't really work.


Thanks for the tip!


----------



## NathanielD

can i wear a brown and black hounds tooth tweed jacket with charcoal trousers?


----------



## Christophe

NathanielD said:


> can i wear a brown and black hounds tooth tweed jacket with charcoal trousers?


It really depends on the exact shades, but generally I think brown with grey can be a very good look. If the charcoal is on the lighter end, it should work really well. My advice: go for it, and if you don't like it, never do it again! It's really up to your tastes.


----------



## jimw

Does anybody know if this model of Sebago loafer is still in production? 

I like the fact that its a more casual, soft leather, and really dig the pebble-grain effect of it all.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## blue suede shoes

jimw said:


> Does anybody know if this model of Sebago loafer is still in production?
> 
> I like the fact that its a more casual, soft leather, and really dig the pebble-grain effect of it all.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim


If it is still in production it will be on their website www.sebago.com If it is not on the website, you may be able to find that model on ebay or amazon as vendors sell new old stock retail inventory.


----------



## jimw

blue suede shoes said:


> If it is still in production it will be on their website www.sebago.com If it is not on the website, you may be able to find that model on ebay or amazon as vendors sell new old stock retail inventory.


Thanks. I see its carried by - has anybody dealt with Sherman Brothers?

Now the question of sizing - I have a ridiculously wide foot.


----------



## blue suede shoes

jimw said:


> Thanks. I see its carried by - has anybody dealt with Sherman Brothers?
> 
> Now the question of sizing - I have a ridiculously wide foot.


Yes, Sherman Brothers is legit. They are a well known shoe retailer in the Philadelphia area that also sells online.

I wish you luck in finding a good fit for wide feet. I have the same problem and as a result there are only a few lasts that I can wear.


----------



## jimw

Thanks for the information. I suppose I might take a chance if their return policy is reasonable.

Yes, it is hard having a wide foot. I have a pair of Bass beef rolls that fit well, even if they are of brush off corrected grain. Just prior to buying these, I tried on a pair of EEE Florsheims that didn't come close - it all comes down to accommodating a high arch for me.

Cheers,

Jim


blue suede shoes said:


> Yes, Sherman Brothers is legit. They are a well known shoe retailer in the Philadelphia area that also sells online.
> 
> I wish you luck in finding a good fit for wide feet. I have the same problem and as a result there are only a few lasts that I can wear.


----------



## SLeiber

SLeiber said:


> Going out on a limb here. I was at a Brooks Bros outlet yesterday and tried on a blue blazer in an effort to find out my size. I measure a 36" chest and thought that's what I would wear, but they only had a 38R. I tried it on and it actually fit great. My problem is, it didn't have any sort of cut associated with it. I asked the sales associate and she didn't know. She asked another who said she thinks they are the Madison fit.
> 
> Does anybody know if the 346 blazers all correspond to one retail cut, and if so which cut that is? They didn't have a measuring tape handy for me to just take measurements so I could know what to look for across brands.
> 
> Thanks


Anybody?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

What tie would you wear with this jacket? I have one that is extremely close.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

OCBD: Not that one. A mostly blue repp tie would be good, as would a navy knit, solid or with white spots. I'm not a big believer in picking up part of a windowpane with a tie, but it does work. You want to avoid anything that'll clash with the orange or the light blue in the check moreso than you'll want to pick one or the other up. 

In terms of patterns, there's not much to worry about. Obviously, nothing too formal. I've been on a kick for wool plaid ties recently, and I might try and pair one here -- there's room for that to work, and room for it to crash and burn.


----------



## salgy

SLeiber said:


> Anybody?


The second associate was right, The outlet cut is very similar to the 1818 Madison


----------



## SLeiber

salgy said:


> The second associate was right, The outlet cut is very similar to the 1818 Madison


Thank you!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Youthful Repp-robate - Thanks! 

Any one else?


----------



## Jovan

Speaking of coordinating ties to sport coats, what is everybody's thoughts on wearing repp stripes with a brown herringbone tweed like that? Do they have to be certain colours/patterns? Some of my ties look okay with it (like a traditionally coloured Argyll & Sutherland) while others (navy/maroon jockey stripe) stand out as looking "wrong".

Knit ties, of course, look good with anything.


----------



## knucklehead

OBCD and Jovan: My thinking is that the busier/larger the jacket pattern, the simpler the tie stripe. This usually means just two colors in the stripe, perhaps three if it the third is white/off-white. Maybe this is a bit unimaginative, but at least it is safe.


----------



## mhj

Jovan said:


> Speaking of coordinating ties to sport coats, what is everybody's thoughts on wearing repp stripes with a brown herringbone tweed like that? Do they have to be certain colours/patterns? Some of my ties look okay with it (like a traditionally coloured Argyll & Sutherland) while others (navy/maroon jockey stripe) stand out as looking "wrong".
> 
> Knit ties, of course, look good with anything.


How about an emblematic? A very classic look.


----------



## Jovan

That's an idea... I do have a wool challis emblematic though it's a little wide in comparison to the lapels.



knucklehead said:


> OBCD and Jovan: My thinking is that the busier/larger the jacket pattern, the simpler the tie stripe. This usually means just two colors in the stripe, perhaps three if it the third is white/off-white. Maybe this is a bit unimaginative, but at least it is safe.


Hm, in theory maybe, but the two colour ties I try wearing with it just don't look right for some reason.


----------



## Christophe

Hm, in theory maybe, but the two colour ties I try wearing with it just don't look right for some reason.[/QUOTE]

It could be that the two colour ties have stripes too narrow (i.e. too close in scale to the herringbone)? Maybe it is the lack of colour and the ties need to be more colourful? Hence why the four coloured Argyll and Sutherland tie works.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan, you probably have trouble with two-color repp ties because most two-color repp ties are lame -- the "school tie" style only really looks "right" with a navy blazer, and even though that look works, it's a bit Rushmore Academy.

Two color repp ties with very wide stripes or stripes of different widths can be cool, though. Generally, I find it hard to go wrong with a repp tie with three colors where the narrowest stripe is a neutral -- white, silver, gold, cream. Note that that is an attempt to explain the kinds of repp patterns I tend to like, not some kind of rubric that should be applied when looking at ties. Heck, a minority of my repp ties meet that standard, I suspect.

(Links are mine, not Vigilink's)


----------



## Barnavelt

I posted this same query on the "thrift store blues and brags" thread but it probably was not the most appropriate spot for that.

I bought some brightly colored blazers / jackets from the thrift a couple weeks ago and none of them have materials tags.




The pink and blue jackets appear to be either linen or linen/silk blends, but the yellow is harder for me to pinpoint. I include some close ups. It is half canvassed and has details that appear to indicate at least a moderate level of quality. I see that "circola moda" still is in business making cheap polyester suits but this one definitely has some age to it. I snipped a few fibers from the inside sleeve and when I burned them they made a soft black ash that smelled somewhat like hair. It also does not have the entirely uniform and smooth appearance of poly but the weave itself is common for poly. I am assuming it is not poly but would be interested in what others think?



Does anyone have any experience with jackets like this or have any idea about what material might be common for them? Since they seem like warm weather wear I figured silk, linen or cotton but I am not sure. Any input is much appreciated.


----------



## Barnavelt

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Jovan, you probably have trouble with two-color repp ties because most two-color repp ties are lame -- the "school tie" style only really looks "right" with a navy blazer, and even though that look works, it's a bit Rushmore Academy.


Funny. I wore a two color repp tie (blue and orange) along with blue blazer to church today. Our pastor commented that my tie "looked like a school tie". Admittedly I was sort of aiming for something Rushmore-esque I suppose.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Barnavelt said:


> Funny. I wore a two color repp tie (blue and orange) along with blue blazer to church today. Our pastor commented that my tie "looked like a school tie". Admittedly I was sort of aiming for something Rushmore-esque I suppose.


It's one of my favorite movies, and just about every jacket is a 3/2 sack, I think. I also think that the individual colors need to be super nice for a two-color tie to work -- a very slightly wrong shade messes the whole thing up.


----------



## SLeiber

Where do tan, or "Cognac" as Florsheim labels them, longwings fit into a wardrobe. I'm considering a pair at a good price, but have a very small and simple wardrobe and I want to make sure I'm making a smart purchase that I will actually get wear out of and will end up being money well spent.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SLeiber said:


> Where do tan, or "Cognac" as Florsheim labels them, longwings fit into a wardrobe. I'm considering a pair at a good price, but have a very small and simple wardrobe and I want to make sure I'm making a smart purchase that I will actually get wear out of and will end up being money well spent.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Where they fit into a wardrobe depends on the wardrobe they're fitting into. I asked a similar question in this thread a few months ago (I just went back and found it, and then lost it before I could link it in here. It was sometime in early September), and the answer from some members was that, when they were in college during the 1960s, they wore tan pebble longwings interchangeably with Weejuns, though they treated them as a touch more formal.

I want a pair. The way I see it, they'd work with khakis, gray flannels, and jeans. They'd be a bad choice with anything too casual or too formal: no rugby shirts or polos, and at the other end no worsted suits. I tend to prefer loafers when I'm in just an OCBD, but if your typical winter rig involves a sweater or a sportcoat, the way mine does, you'd be good. I guess they'd be alright during the warmer months when you're in a jacket, too.


----------



## SLeiber

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Where they fit into a wardrobe depends on the wardrobe they're fitting into. I asked a similar question in this thread a few months ago (I just went back and found it, and then lost it before I could link it in here. It was sometime in early September), and the answer from some members was that, when they were in college during the 1960s, they wore tan pebble longwings interchangeably with Weejuns, though they treated them as a touch more formal.
> 
> I want a pair. The way I see it, they'd work with khakis, gray flannels, and jeans. They'd be a bad choice with anything too casual or too formal: no rugby shirts or polos, and at the other end no worsted suits. I tend to prefer loafers when I'm in just an OCBD, but if your typical winter rig involves a sweater or a sportcoat, the way mine does, you'd be good. I guess they'd be alright during the warmer months when you're in a jacket, too.


This is very helpful. My daily go-to shoes are burgundy beefroll Weejuns and I have Allen Edmonds burgundy pennys for situations that are still casual, but more along the lines of going out to dinner rather than going to class. Bean boots when it's wet and topsiders when it's warm. My typical "uniform" for a day of classes is a Brooks OCBD and chinos with sometimes a sweater. Still working on adding to my measly sweater arsenal and buying my first sportcoats and blazers.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SLeiber said:


> This is very helpful. My daily go-to shoes are burgundy beefroll Weejuns and I have Allen Edmonds burgundy pennys for situations that are still casual, but more along the lines of going out to dinner rather than going to class. Bean boots when it's wet and topsiders when it's warm. My typical "uniform" for a day of classes is a Brooks OCBD and chinos with sometimes a sweater. Still working on adding to my measly sweater arsenal and buying my first sportcoats and blazers.


It's your call, then. They're not an essential you're missing, and they're not a mistake with the clothes you're typically wearing, so buy them if you think you'll wear 'em.


----------



## anglophile23

I've searched everywhere I can think of on this site to find Mcarthurs method of cleaning shell cordovan shoes. What is it?


----------



## SLeiber

anglophile23 said:


> I've searched everywhere I can think of on this site to find Mcarthurs method of cleaning shell cordovan shoes. What is it?


https://theagatineeyelet.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/the-mac-method/


----------



## Orgetorix

Check out AlanC's stickied Hall of Fame Threads post on the first page of the forum. It's right in there.


----------



## leisureclass

Emblematic Christmas neckties I thrifted in the warmer months and have been waiting to wear:
- Navy background with Santa going down the chimney
- Red background with Christmas trees

Are these okay starting Dec 1st until about New Years? Is that the rule of thumb?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Sounds like a workable plan, leisureclass. Here at the Eagle's roost, we dress the house in it's Christmas finery just after the Thanksgiving holiday. and as for the Christmas ties, I generally get two (the wife tells me three) weeks of potential wear out of them each year. Have some fun with your's...that is indeed, what they were intended for.


----------



## Christophe

How does the Lands End Regular Fit compare to BB's Traditional fit? Or LE trim fit to BB slim? Are they anomylous? Thanks.


----------



## GregNYC

Trad shopping in Seattle? When my father was living in Seattle about 20 years ago, he said that there were some good clothing stores. And he was the soul of trad. I'll be in Seattle the next two days. Short trip. Then on to Honolulu to see the Pearl Harbor Day Commemoration on December 7th.

--Greg


----------



## SLeiber

Are vintage Bean Norwegian sweaters better quality than the new, 100% wool versions? Also, is the fit the same?


----------



## Himself

SLeiber said:


> Are vintage Bean Norwegian sweaters better quality than the new, 100% wool versions? Also, is the fit the same?


I haven't seen the newer one, but I just got an older one from a forum member. It's very nice indeed, though definitely rustic. It's a good all-around winter weight too.

Older Large usually fit me perfectly, closer to modern Medium but with longer sleeves. With modern sweaters I'm usually between two sizes and it's never quite right.

Also, "100% wool" can be a bit of a fetish that makes no sense. A little nylon or even acrylic can help a sweater hold its shape through heavy use. Better wools are great too but a lot more expensive.


----------



## Himself

Christophe said:


> How does the Lands End Regular Fit compare to BB's Traditional fit? Or LE trim fit to BB slim? Are they anomylous? Thanks.


I have a few of each.

Biggest to smallest:

BB Traditional > BB Regular or LE Traditional > BB Slim > LE Tailored


----------



## Christophe

Himself said:


> I have a few of each.
> 
> Biggest to smallest:
> 
> BB Traditional > BB Regular or LE Traditional > BB Slim > LE Tailored


Thanks for the insight!


----------



## SLeiber

Himself said:


> I haven't seen the newer one, but I just got an older one from a forum member. It's very nice indeed, though definitely rustic. It's a good all-around winter weight too.
> 
> Older Large usually fit me perfectly, closer to modern Medium but with longer sleeves. With modern sweaters I'm usually between two sizes and it's never quite right.
> 
> Also, "100% wool" can be a bit of a fetish that makes no sense. A little nylon or even acrylic can help a sweater hold its shape through heavy use. Better wools are great too but a lot more expensive.


I've heard nothing but good things about the older ones, but it seems the reviews on their website for the new 100% model are less than stellar and I was hoping somebody here might know how they compare. I've been wanting one for a while and they don't pop up on eBay in a small very often, but I'm pretty sure the one that just came up for auction is a newer piece (still awaiting a reply from the seller)


----------



## SLeiber

Is this jacket a 3-roll-2 or an actual 3-button? I can't tell with the way the jacket is sitting. Also, does the shoulder measurement seem small for a 38S?


----------



## BiffBiffster

SLeiber said:


> Is this jacket a 3-roll-2 or an actual 3-button? I can't tell with the way the jacket is sitting. Also, does the shoulder measurement seem small for a 38S?


3 roll 2. Looks odd as they mistakenly fastened the top button.


----------



## Christophe

Shoulders are very small, my 36 jackets have 17 inch shoulders and a smaller chest. This should work for someone with really small shoulders for their size, but would be tough to alter.


----------



## SLeiber

BiffBiffster said:


> 3 roll 2. Looks odd as they mistakenly fastened the top button.


The jacket actually isn't buttoned at all, that's why I was having such a hard time telling. It seems like it may be pressed a little wrong as well.



Christophe said:


> Shoulders are very small, my 36 jackets have 17 inch shoulders and a smaller chest. This should work for someone with really small shoulders for their size, but would be tough to alter.


I thought so. I have a 36" chest, but have to size up to a 38 because of my shoulders. This jacket puts a kink in that plan.


----------



## Himself

BiffBiffster said:


> 3 roll 2. Looks odd as they mistakenly fastened the top button.


Some jackets seem to get mistakenly pressed that way too.


----------



## BiffBiffster

I stand corrected. That jacket is definitely not buttoned.

Still looks like a 3 roll 2 to me.


----------



## SLeiber

BiffBiffster said:


> I stand corrected. That jacket is definitely not buttoned.
> 
> Still looks like a 3 roll 2 to me.


Alas, it has the shoulders for a 14-year-old boy so the point is moot


----------



## red sweatpants

*PTBs*

EDIT: Answered myself after a little research. Sorry for the clutter.


----------



## vestis virum facit

Anybody know if Nordstom's next planned sale is at the end of December, or is it later?


----------



## jimw

*Shoe lasts*

Is there any particular significance to any one shoe last? I'm aware of what lasts are used for, but I need some general schoolin', it seems.

I have very wide feet, and have been looking at the Hitchcock site for some loafers - they make a reference to "mohawk lasts" in manufacturing these Sebago loafers (brown calf).

https://www.wideshoes.com/catalog.cfm?page=street-and-dress_dress-moccasins_sebago-loafers

Any general impressions on these shoes? I sorta like them - would prefer beefoll to flat-panel loafers, but you know what they say about beggars!

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## straw sandals

Hello all,

So, while thrifting a month or two ago, I found a Turnbull and Asser (!) OCBD (!!) in my neck size. However, the sleeves are probably two inches too long. Because Turnbull and Asser shirt gauntlets are joined to the sleeves so delicately, with dozens of pleats, I've been afraid to bring it to a tailor for alterations.

My question: Bring it in and roll the dice, or put it on the exchange? If it's going to be the former, are there any special instructions I should give my tailor?

Thanks much!


----------



## knucklehead

*Winter coat options*

Gents -

I need to get a warm winter coat to wear over my usual workday get-up: chinos, sport coat, OCBD, tie. I'm looking for something less formal than my full length wool topcoat. Although I'd love a waxed cotton Barbour, it probably won't be warm enough here in the Rockies. I'm considering a toggle, either a John Partridge Montgomery (thanks for the tip Doghouse) or an LLB Heritage. Also, I think that a tweed topcoat with collars rather than lapels might work.

I'll be grateful for any thoughts and suggestions from you experts.

(By the way, if anyone has anything they'd like to sell me, I'm a 40L.)

Knucklehead


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## Jovan

knucklehead: Ooh, a competitor for 40L stuff on the Trad Thrift Exchange! So that's where my coveted items have been going. 

I agree that a tweed topcoat with a collar looks quite dashing. Especially when it has raglan shoulders. Something like this is what I refer to:


----------



## knucklehead

Perfect! A 40L to whom I can direct all of my fit questions!

Thanks for the input on the tweed overcoat. The Goddard's link showed just what I was thinking of. If only one would show up on the exchange . . . .


----------



## wrwhiteknight

I'm also a 40L, although I just realized this, hence why all my 42L have been getting me flack around here!


----------



## Jovan

Ah, that would seem to be the issue then.


----------



## Billax

wrwhiteknight said:


> I'm also a 40L, although I just realized this, hence why all my 42L have been getting me flack around here!


So, after 270 days as a member and 672 posts (or 2.5 posts per day!!!) you are just now discovering that you've been wearing the wrong size clothing? That is the most stunning mismatch between yapping and learning I have *ever *witnessed!

The immortal words of Abraham Lincoln are apposite: "_Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt._"


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jimw -- The last determines the shape of the shoe. Some lasts fit wider or longer than others in the same size. "Mohawk" is the name of one of Sebago's lasts, I guess. Allen Edmonds and Edward Green number them, while Alden and Meermin, like Sebago, give them names. Some companies also offer the same lasts in different widths, too -- AE allows you to search their website for shoes available in different widths.

Here's Meermin's last guide, to show the differences between their lasts.










Straw sandals: I've never had this done, but my understanding is that dress shirt sleeves can be / are often taken up from the shoulder. Don't quote me, and do some research to make sure before dropping in on a tailor. T&A shirts are great.


----------



## Flairball

A question about leather color. 

I always match my leather belt with my shoes. I have also been of the impression that one must select the color of their leather based on the time of the day, brown leather for daywear, and black leather for evening wear. More and more I am getting the feeling that this is not the convention, and that formality should dictate. 

What would be the correct way to select? 

For what it's worth, I prefer brown leather, and think I look better in it. Not that this is relevant to the question.


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## The Rambler

I'd say that's basically correct, though I'd substitue the word "coordinate" for the word "match."


----------



## Topsider

Flairball said:


> I have also been of the impression that one must select the color of their leather based on the time of the day, brown leather for daywear, and black leather for evening wear. More and more I am getting the feeling that this is not the convention, and that formality should dictate.


If there's a "convention," it tends towards darker suits for evening wear. This may or may not include black shoes. This presumes that you're dressing specifically for an evening event, and not attending something after work.

On a related note, "black tie optional" should always be interpreted as "wear a tux."


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Flairball said:


> A question about leather color.
> 
> I always match my leather belt with my shoes. I have also been of the impression that one must select the color of their leather based on the time of the day, brown leather for daywear, and black leather for evening wear. More and more I am getting the feeling that this is not the convention, and that formality should dictate.
> 
> What would be the correct way to select?
> 
> For what it's worth, I prefer brown leather, and think I look better in it. Not that this is relevant to the question.


That's fair enough, though the corollary is that one ought to wear a more formal version of an item in the evening -- that is, if you're putting on a suit to go to dinner you'd choose a more formal one than you might choose during the day. Of course, there are clothes for which black shoes are too formal, and so should not be worn with black shoes without regard to the time of the day.

Basically: if your clothes would work with black or brown shoes, picking black for the evening has a slight edge over brown, which is still fine.


----------



## red sweatpants

Is anyone aware of the LLBean Holi-deal schedule this year? 30% off men's sweaters today.


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## jimw

Has anyone had experience with O'Connell's house-label sack blazer? 

It seems reasonably priced, and Buffalo is always a quick excuse for the Anchor Bar and Genesee Cream Ale on tap.

Merry Christmas to All,

Jim


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## Jovan

jimw: This thread should be of help.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?106153-O-Connell-s-Navy-Blazer

Unlike a lot of us, you'd have the advantage of trying one on.


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## jimw

Thank you, Jovan. I'll check out these threads and see what I should expect. Certainly it IS a big plus to try an item on, rather than order sight unseen.

I also expect to find more value shopping cross-border than, say, checking out the Brooks Bros. location in Toronto. Even though the CDN $ has lately been at par or greater with the US dollar, I always get sticker shock N of the border. You may as well add an extra 20%-30% markup on many goods here even before adding an additional 13% on HST.

Have a pleasant holiday,

Jim


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## Jovan

I hear from many of my fellow Canadians that live close to the border that they'd rather shop here in the States for that very reason. What a shame. Hope your venture to O'Connells is fruitful! One of these days I'll have to make a pilgrimmage when I'm in that state.


----------



## Flairball

Is there a difference in US and UK sportcoat sizing? I'm thinking of ordering one form the UK in the future, and want to make sure I get the sizing right. I've been told clothing in the UK tends to be a little trimmer in cut.


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## The Rambler

They're fond of the metric system over there. The typical cut is also different, in shoulder and waist: make sure you know what you're getting.


----------



## Jovan

Flairball, there is no significant difference except in the fit. They use inches for both coats and trousers, but oddly not for shirts. Those are in centimetres. Don't ask me why... maybe a British member can weigh in.


----------



## Jovan

How are the button-down collars on RL Rugby shirts? I was thinking of getting one of the flap pocket OCBDs that are on final sale for $30, as it would fill a gap in my wardrobe...


----------



## Trip English

^Petite.


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## Jovan

Can you be any more specific than that? Collar point length, etc.?


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## oxford cloth button down

Jovan said:


> Can you be any more specific than that?


Toy-size or miniature.


----------



## Christophe

Jovan said:


> How are the button-down collars on RL Rugby shirts? I was thinking of getting one of the flap pocket OCBDs that are on final sale for $30, as it would fill a gap in my wardrobe...


I saw some in the store, and they were very small... no measurements taken but they looked like collars on boys shirts. If you could live with the collar they aren't bad otherwise.


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## Jovan

Hm, looks like I'll avoid then. Thanks.


----------



## SLeiber

Has anybody had any experience with irregular Brooks Bros ties? I found a nice one on eBay that looks like it's in great shape, but the tag says it's an irregular and the seller doesn't elaborate on that.


----------



## wacolo

SLeiber said:


> Has anybody had any experience with irregular Brooks Bros ties? I found a nice one on eBay that looks like it's in great shape, but the tag says it's an irregular and the seller doesn't elaborate on that.


Probably came from Marshalls or TJ Maxx. Quite a few hanging in my local stores. Having said that I never noticed any major issues with the ones I have seen in person.


----------



## Steve Smith

SLeiber said:


> Has anybody had any experience with irregular Brooks Bros ties? I found a nice one on eBay that looks like it's in great shape, but the tag says it's an irregular and the seller doesn't elaborate on that.


In my experience, most of their irregular ties have no apparent flaws. Ask the seller.


----------



## CMDC

I'll third the thought. I've got a few irregulars. Can't tell what's supposedly wrong with them.


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## Jovan

I've gotten irregular RLP ties from T.J. Maxx before -- navy and black flat ended silk knits. I noticed little wrong with them apart from the ends being slightly crooked in the knitting process. Still very serviceable, and at $20 a pop they were a steal for silk knits.


----------



## SLeiber

Wow, thanks for the response everybody. Very helpful


----------



## Christophe

Generally, the Brooks Brothers "Irregulars" seem just fine. However, I have found a few at Marshall's/TJMax with noticeable pulls or runs in the silk weave on the front blade. I'd look closely at pictures just to be positive, but an overwhelming majority have been good ties.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Moleskin trousers, please school me. What situations are these appropriate for? Jacket, never a jacket, cuffs, never cuffs?


----------



## Shaver

oxford cloth button down said:


> Moleskin trousers, please school me. What situations are these appropriate for? Jacket, never a jacket, cuffs, never cuffs?


Perfect for any jacket of a coarser material e.g. tweed. Great with jumpers, err that's 'sweaters' for my Trad friends. Basically any circumstance where corduroy is appropriate, then moleskins will be an even better choice. :icon_smile_wink:

Not sure if you have any or not, but if not, be warned that they are difficult to iron properly. Well worth the effort though as they are the most comfortable trousers you can wear.


----------



## The Navy Blazer

Hi,

I'm in the market for a new pair of loafers. I have a pair of dark brown loafers, and a pair of tan penny loafers.

Would a pair of Alden Penny loafers in burgundy be a "good" next buy? 

Best regards,

Anders.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
A pair of the Alden LHS design in #8 shell cordovan or burgundy calf hide would make a very nice addition to your collection. However, you might also consider Rancourt Handsewn's penny loafer designs as a nice, less expensive alternative to the Alden option. See WWW.rancourtshoes.com for additional details.


----------



## The Navy Blazer

Thanks for the quick reply. Also, thanks for the good advice. Very helpful!


----------



## eagle2250

^^
You are quite welcome and good luck in your hunt!


----------



## dorji

Oxford, moleskin would be perfect for you.

Somebody on here was looking for suspenders a while ago, and I recommended Trafalgar. They are doing a 15% sale now- just wanted to link it up in case this person was still here (Jack maybe??)

Anyway...
https://www.trafalgarstore.com/?sta...42676D225A27&gclid=COWi3a_syLQCFao7MgodA1oA4g


----------



## Homebody

Hi everyone. It's a pleasure to be here.

If I may briefly introduce myself in the snappy Q&A thread, I'm more or less starting a wardrobe from scratch. American Trad appeals to me, so I've been picking up bits and pieces over the past three months with this direction in mind. Unfortunately, it will be a while before it all comes together, but I hope to find that this look suits me. This place has been an invaluable resource for me (if I'm doing it right) and I want to start off by saying thanks.

Anyway, I want to order a surcingle belt from Eliza B. I've chosen a solid navy one with a feathered edge, and I plan to request the rounded, horseshoe-shaped buckle in place of the square one.

One detail remains. I'm at a loss when it comes to the stitching.

Choices are yellow and brown. I'm currently leaning toward contrast. My uneducated guess is that matching the thread to the leather is a way to make surcingle belts dressier and less GTH than they were originally intended to be. But for all I know brown stitching came first. I could use a little context.

Is there a historical precedent for either color of stitching? Is one definitively more casual?


----------



## Billax

Homebody said:


> Hi everyone. It's a pleasure to be here.
> 
> If I may briefly introduce myself in the snappy Q&A thread, I'm more or less starting a wardrobe from scratch. American Trad appeals to me, so I've been picking up bits and pieces over the past three months with this direction in mind. Unfortunately, it will be a while before it all comes together, but I hope to find that this look suits me. This place has been an invaluable resource for me (if I'm doing it right) and I want to start off by saying thanks.
> 
> Anyway, I want to order a surcingle belt from Eliza B. I've chosen a solid navy one with a feathered edge, and I plan to request the rounded, horseshoe-shaped buckle in place of the square one.
> 
> One detail remains. I'm at a loss when it comes to the stitching.
> 
> Choices are yellow and brown. I'm currently leaning toward contrast. My uneducated guess is that matching the thread to the leather is a way to make surcingle belts dressier and less GTH than they were originally intended to be. But for all I know brown stitching came first. I could use a little context.
> 
> Is there a historical precedent for either color of stitching? Is one definitively more casual?


Solid first post, Homebody. Contrast stitching is always considered more casual (read jaunty) than stitching that matches the belt's tab color. Still, a surcingle belt is casual attire, contrast stitching or not. Additionally, and speaking just for me, I do not consider a Navy surcingle with brown leather tabs to be GTH apparel, though such a belt is often worn with GTH trou, shirts, or sweaters. So, the key question is, "Will you wear the belt with contrast stitch shoes?"

I try to wear a contrast stitch belt with shoes that are the same color leather as the belt and have the same color contrast stitch as the belt - as in the example shown below, with tan leather and white contrast stitching on both items.










Thus, the option of yellow contrast stitching would be a non-starter for me because finding casual shoes with yellow contrast stitching would VERY difficult.

I'd choose the Brown stitching and wear the belt with Brown casual shoes having stitching the same color as the leather. Can't go wrong that way!


----------



## Howard

What do you guys think about heat gloves? Gloves that I can wear outside pushing carts that keep your hands warm inside and keep the cold away. Do they work? I wore them a few times but they're nothing special, feels like regular gloves to me.


----------



## The Rambler

The Navy Blazer said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm in the market for a new pair of loafers. I have a pair of dark brown loafers, and a pair of tan penny loafers.
> 
> Would a pair of Alden Penny loafers in burgundy be a "good" next buy?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Anders.


Yes, it would. Burgundy, also variously called "oxblood," "cordovan (the color, not the leather," and "#8" is the classic color for pennies, since at least the 1950s. The Alden LHS model is generally referred to as a penny loafer, but they also make a "full strap" model, and a "beefroll" in burgundy (called "Cape Cod"). If you're thinking about the traditional strap, or beefroll, which are closer in design to the very tradly Bass Weejun design, you might also look at the burgundy pennies offered by Rancourt, which are wonderful; if you're looking at the Alden LHS, you might also look at the "Patriot" model by Allen Edmonds, who also make a few weejun-type pennies, that many people like best.


----------



## Flairball

This is probably an amateur question, but here goes. 

I've been browsing the thrift thread, and see various measurements for the tweed jackets. How are these measurements found? In particular, how does one figure he chest size? I usually wear a 50R, sometimes a 48R, but the chest measurements are formatted differently. 

And I'd really like to thrift a few tweed jackets and build a solid collection.


----------



## C. Sharp

This was in the hall of fame section https://api.viglink.com/api/click?f...ure For Ebay&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13575308622507

It looks like the picture links are broken. I believe someone asked this recently also but I can not find the link for it. Maybe someones might remember it.



Flairball said:


> This is probably an amateur question, but here goes.
> 
> I've been browsing the thrift thread, and see various measurements for the tweed jackets. How are these measurements found? In particular, how does one figure he chest size? I usually wear a 50R, sometimes a 48R, but the chest measurements are formatted differently.
> 
> And I'd really like to thrift a few tweed jackets and build a solid collection.


----------



## Flairball

C. Sharp said:


> This was in the hall of fame section https://api.viglink.com/api/click?f...ure For Ebay&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13575308622507
> 
> It looks like the picture links are broken. I believe someone asked this recently also but I can not find the link for it. Maybe someones might remember it.


That is interesting, but it only explains the standard measurements. The jackets I've seen in the thrift forum have chest measurements between 20 inches, and 24 inches. Seldom are the sizes at the store that small. How is this determined? I've never seen a 21 R label on any of the racks at the men's store.


----------



## DMB

Flairball said:


> That is interesting, but it only explains the standard measurements. The jackets I've seen in the thrift forum have chest measurements between 20 inches, and 24 inches. Seldom are the sizes at the store that small. How is this determined? I've never seen a 21 R label on any of the racks at the men's store.


Chest measurements like that are taken across the jacket, armpit to armpit, then doubled to get the jacket size. You are looking at the measurement across before it is doubled. Double that measurement and you should get the jacket size. (a chest of 21" should be a 42R) I believe this is how it goes. - DMB


----------



## DMB

Flair - another good idea if buying something online is to get familiar with your measurements, or even easier ... the measurements of one of your best fitting jackets. At a minimum, know the sleeve length (shoulder seam to cuff), overall length (back of collar to bottom hem), chest (armpit to armpit), and shoulder length (measured from shoulder seam to shoulder seam across the back of the collar). Pre-owned jackets on Ebay are most often listed by measurements like these, since the tags are often missing. In knowing the size jacket that best fits you, you can determine how much tailoring it will require. Taking up the sleeves and inch or so is probably much easier/less expensive than shortening a jacket or making alterations to the shoulders. You don't want to get a great deal on a jacket, then spend triple that on alterations. - DMB


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

DMB said:


> Chest measurements like that are taken across the jacket, armpit to armpit, then doubled to get the jacket size. You are looking at the measurement across before it is doubled. Double that measurement and you should get the jacket size. (a chest of 21" should be a 42R) I believe this is how it goes. - DMB


Not exactly -- jacket sizes are based on chest measurements. My chest measures (about) 36", so I wear a size 36 jacket -- the chest measurement of which is somewhere around 38"-40" (I assume, I haven't measured my own jackets). If the chest measured 36", I wouldn't be able to move at all.

Think about how your trousers fit at your waist (if they stay all the way up without a belt) -- if your jacket's chest measurement was the same as the actual distance around your chest, your jacket would fit as tightly as that.


----------



## DMB

I follow you regarding chest size vs jacket size. I'm just advising how a lot of the measurments are shown on preowned stuff on the Bay. A lot of the sellers have diagrams, like what I described. Maybe for simplicity?


----------



## savas

Hello everybody,

I am a newbee at the forum. Thanks a lot for everybody in advance!
I have a very serious problem I could not solve! Here is my (French) cuffs with my cufflinks: https://tinypic.com/r/2sbwjeh/6

I could not understand why my cuffs are not tight like this:

https://blogof.francescomugnai.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/star.jpg

or

this: https://www.geeksblog.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/cufflinks.jpg

The shirt that I wear is tailormade. I have the same problem with all my shirts and cufflinks...


----------



## Jovan

French cuffs aren't really something discussed at length in the Trad Forum, but...

What you say is a matter of preference. You should talk to your tailor about it if you prefer ssnugger cuffs. However, it shouldn't be a problem if they're just long enough to show 1/4-1/2" beyond your jacket sleeves. With the picture you show, I see no problem with their current tightness.


----------



## savas

Thank you very much Jovan. I hope I am not taking your time too much and replying your post is not inappropriate according to the rules.

Today I went to my tailor and asked about it. He said "your wrists are very thin. If you want to keep the cuffs tight than we should make it a little bit shorter (from one to the other end; not the lenght of it which is shown beyond the jacket) but it will not look esthetic/gentle/"correct".

On the other hand, almost all pictures I see around or in google, they are highly tight... So I thought when I use the cufflinks, it should stick cuffs to each other: one to the other end. Like Joe Biden's this pic: https://dreamdogsart.typepad.com/art/images/2007/12/29/biden_french_cuffs.jpg.

When I look at mine (https://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2sbwjeh&s=6) they look highly loose. Either the metal-stick part of the cuff is too long  or another thing. Not like stick to each other... I hope I can explain what I mean correctly. Since I am new into cuffs and cufflinks this is a nightmare for me :- )


----------



## Charles Saturn

What is the name of the English Company that makes bridle leather belts that advertises on the site?


----------



## C. Sharp

Equus ? https://askandyaboutclothes.com/selected-merchants/shoes-belts



Charles Saturn said:


> What is the name of the English Company that makes bridle leather belts that advertises on the site?


----------



## Jovan

savas said:


> Thank you very much Jovan. I hope I am not taking your time too much and replying your post is not inappropriate according to the rules.
> 
> Today I went to my tailor and asked about it. He said "your wrists are very thin. If you want to keep the cuffs tight than we should make it a little bit shorter (from one to the other end; not the lenght of it which is shown beyond the jacket) but it will not look esthetic/gentle/"correct".
> 
> On the other hand, almost all pictures I see around or in google, they are highly tight... So I thought when I use the cufflinks, it should stick cuffs to each other: one to the other end. Like Joe Biden's this pic: https://dreamdogsart.typepad.com/art/images/2007/12/29/biden_french_cuffs.jpg.
> 
> When I look at mine (https://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2sbwjeh&s=6) they look highly loose. Either the metal-stick part of the cuff is too long  or another thing. Not like stick to each other... I hope I can explain what I mean correctly. Since I am new into cuffs and cufflinks this is a nightmare for me :- )


First of all, you're worrying too much. Why would it be against the rules? I'm glad to help, and forums like these are for discussion, not simple Q&A.

I know exactly what you mean though. I used to think my cufflink holes had to practically stick together. This is not necessarily true. Besides, you need ample room to be able to get your cufflink ends through, whether they are the double sided chain type (my preference), hinge (most common now, but not as nice looking), or silk knots (a good alternative, but they can be hard as heck to get in).

Your tailor sounds logical. A shorter cuff would probably stay on your wrist better than a wider one. If you wish to do this, though, I think you should get your sleeves a bit longer. This is because they will not be able to slide back on your forearms very far when you reach up.


----------



## Flairball

Sportcoat length question.

It is my understanding that the bottom of a sportcoat should be roughly even with your knuckles when your arms are at your side. Is this correct? 

If so, what is an acceptable amount a sportcoat may extend beyond your knuckles, should your sportcoat be a little long? I figure the knuckles isn't a hard fast rule, as jackets come in standard sizes, yet people don't. What is the "range" I must strive for?

Asked because I've got two sportcoats I live that I believe could be shortened a wee bit, 1-2".

**Sadly, one of the jackets was sized with the help, and assurances of a gentleman at a menswear store.


----------



## hardline_42

Flairball said:


> Sportcoat length question.
> 
> It is my understanding that the bottom of a sportcoat should be roughly even with your knuckles when your arms are at your side. Is this correct?
> 
> If so, what is an acceptable amount a sportcoat may extend beyond your knuckles, should your sportcoat be a little long? I figure the knuckles isn't a hard fast rule, as jackets come in standard sizes, yet people don't. What is the "range" I must strive for?
> 
> Asked because I've got two sportcoats I live that I believe could be shortened a wee bit, 1-2".
> 
> **Sadly, one of the jackets was sized with the help, and assurances of a gentleman at a menswear store.


Flairball, as you know, the knuckle rule is a just a rough guide. The important thing is that the jacket be long enough to cover your entire posterior. Anything longer than that would depend on your individual proportions, but for most people it's not necessary. Altering the length of a sport coat is very difficult and probably not worth it, unfortunately.


----------



## Flairball

hardline_42 said:


> Flairball, as you know, the knuckle rule is a just a rough guide. The important thing is that the jacket be long enough to cover your entire posterior. Anything longer than that would depend on your individual proportions, but for most people it's not necessary. Altering the length of a sport coat is very difficult and probably not worth it, unfortunately.


Thanks for the reply.

I have one sportcoat that I thrifted for short money that I really like. Because it was a bargain I will bring it to the tailor, and see what he says about shortening it.

To that end, my best fitting sportcoat is 30". The two which are too long are 32". Which brings me to a follow up question; if a sportcoat is too long, how much extra is acceptable? Neither jacket extends past my finger tips, but land just between my first and second knuckles, just south of my second knuckle. About 1 1/2-2" long. I think both jackets fit, and look good on me, but I'm new here and really just starting to learn about fit.

Edited to add- tomorrow I will be wearing one of the jackets, so I will post a pic.


----------



## Billax

Here is a shot of appropriate shirt sleeve length and appropriate coat sleeve length. Somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2" of shirt sleeve should be showing below you coat sleeve. I cannot see why knuckles are ever mentioned in a discussion of shirt or sport coat sleeves.


----------



## Flairball

Billax said:


> Here is a shot of appropriate shirt sleeve length and appropriate coat sleeve length. Somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2" of shirt sleeve should be showing below you coat sleeve. I cannot see why knuckles are ever mentioned in a discussion of shirt or sport coat sleeves.


Who's discussing sleeves? The topic is body length.

But yes, I will have the sleeves taken up to the appropriate length.


----------



## straw sandals

Hello, Fellows!

I just bought this jacket and am very excited:



As you can see, I'll need to have it relined. It's a Chipp jacket, so I was hoping to replace the moderately crazy lining with another crazy lining. Trouble is, I don't know how much material I'll need. Does anyone have any idea as to how much silk or bemberg I should buy? Would this, for example, be enough?


----------



## hardline_42

straw sandals said:


> Hello, Fellows!
> 
> I just bought this jacket and am very excited:
> 
> As you can see, I'll need to have it relined. It's a Chipp jacket, so I was hoping to replace the moderately crazy lining with another crazy lining. Trouble is, I don't know how much material I'll need. Does anyone have any idea as to how much silk or bemberg I should buy? Would this, for example, be enough?


Paul Winston is a member here. I think he would know exactly what is required.


----------



## straw sandals

That's a good idea. I'll take it back to Mr. Winston's shop and see what he says. He hasn't been in the past few times I've visited, but I'm not in a rush!


----------



## Jovan

Why not just give a call?


----------



## straw sandals

I've been in Midtown for work these past few months anyway. It will be a pleasant errand, and I'll enjoy chatting with him.


----------



## leisureclass

Wow Straw Sandals, you're lucky I didn't find that on ebay first! Please post some action shots in the WAYW thread when it gets fixed up.


----------



## 41Lexington

Did J Press ever make a regular 3 button blazer/suit coat (as opposed to the 3 roll 2)? I'm curious when I see these on ebay or at thrifts whether the jacket has been mis-buttoned/mis-pressed, or whether J Press at one time made 3 button jackets. 

Thanks for any info.


----------



## CMDC

^I've never seen one. They've done 2 button darted but I've never come across a straight three button. I could be wrong but if I saw a 3 button JPress jacket, I'd buy it with confidence that its a 3/2.


----------



## firedancer

CMDC said:


> ^I've never seen one. They've done 2 button darted but I've never come across a straight three button. I could be wrong but if I saw a 3 button JPress jacket, I'd buy it with confidence that its a 3/2.


I'm sure Mr . CMDC has seen more than me due to his location and I agree.

A caveat though. Some 3 roll 2 jackets can be pressed as a 3 and look good that way. Some sellers just don't know what they have and try to " fix" the roll.

If you're ever in doubt whether you're looking at a 3/2 look at the top button hole. The " wrong" side will be finished.


----------



## 41Lexington

Thank you both for the responses. That is what I suspected.


----------



## notagain

new question - my search fu is failing me. What is the history and/or significance of leather buttons on tweed jackets?


----------



## ZackP

So...what does 3/2 jacket mean?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
ZacP: It means three buttons, rolled to two.


----------



## ZackP

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> ZacP: It means three buttons, rolled to two.


Thank you!


----------



## CLTesquire

Regarding 3/2 jackets, and their historical origin, if the point was for the jacket to naturally roll to the 2nd button why was the 3rd button ever there in the first place?


----------



## Billax

For the same reason that the hidden throat button of a shawl collar cardigan exists. To give the wearer a bit more protection during adverse weather conditions. Sometimes, an otherwise nice day can produce windy weather or intermittent spits. Just pop the lapel collar and button the top button of your sport coat and you're more comfortable and better protected from the elements. Look up "throat latch," if you're working your way up the "protective" buttons/button holes.


----------



## tuckspub

I am shopping for a new navy blazer and am wondering whether I should make use of the 70% off sale at JAB or would I be better off shopping for a lightly used Brooks Brothers or similar blazer. JAB are open on this final day of their sale till this evening so a timely reply would be most appreciated.


----------



## SLeiber

I really need to upgrade my almost non-existent sweater collection and I'm not sure where to start. I have been looking for months for an LLB Norwegian on eBay and finally found one in my size a week ago, but it sold right before I could buy it.

I would like to add some crewneck shetlands as well, but I'm not sure where to look. I have a saved search for J Press Shaggy Dogs on eBay, but they don't pop up very often and I'm yet to see one in a small. What brands should I look to for quality shetlands that will be affordable (<$60) at winter sales or on eBay?

Also, if anybody has some small sweaters, or anything else in my signature for that matter, let me know


----------



## hardline_42

SLeiber said:


> I have been looking for months for an LLB Norwegian on eBay and finally found one in my size a week ago, but it sold right before I could buy it.


Here's a source for a made in Ireland that fits your budget. I have no other info on it, though. The newer LLB Norwegians are expensive and only OK, IMO. Their small fits like a medium, BTW.


----------



## SLeiber

hardline_42 said:


> Here's a source for a made in Ireland that fits your budget. I have no other info on it, though. The newer LLB Norwegians are expensive and only OK, IMO. Their small fits like a medium, BTW.


Thanks! I was going to stick to a vintage 80/20 blend Bean one which, aside from the high cost, is he reason I was looking on eBay.


----------



## Chevo

Hello folks, newbie here. Can someone please provide instructions on how to date a burberry coat? Thanks!


----------



## ZackP

Chevo said:


> Hello folks, newbie here. Can someone please provide instructions on how to date a burberry coat? Thanks!


Well, I'd first ask its friends if it likes you as much as you like them


----------



## Chevo

:icon_smile_big:


ZackP said:


> Well, I'd first ask its friends if it likes you as much as you like them


----------



## Bjorn

Chevo said:


> Hello folks, newbie here. Can someone please provide instructions on how to date a burberry coat? Thanks!


Oh, your linings is so silky. Is that a pink pocket I see?

 Maybe send them an email with some pictures.


----------



## hardline_42

Chevo said:


> Hello folks, newbie here. Can someone please provide instructions on how to date a burberry coat? Thanks!


Take a look at the tag and compare it to these.


----------



## ocatoro

why is it so hard to find someone to shorten the sleeves of a jacket with functioning buttonholes? it can't be that hard of a job surely?

(I'm in Wales, UK)


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

ocatoro said:


> why is it so hard to find someone to shorten the sleeves of a jacket with functioning buttonholes? it can't be that hard of a job surely?
> 
> (I'm in Wales, UK)


I assure you, it can. The tailor has to remove the sleeves, shorten them from the shoulder, and reattach them. That's a lot more complicated than taking them up from the cuffs.


----------



## ocatoro

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I assure you, it can. The tailor has to remove the sleeves, shorten them from the shoulder, and reattach them. That's a lot more complicated than taking them up from the cuffs.


ah ok, I hadn't realised this. maybe I'd be better off carrying heavy weights and stretching my arms.. seems more likely at the moment!


----------



## Jovan

You can shorten maybe a half inch at the end before it throws the balance off. Apart from that, don't get coats with working sleeve buttons unless the sleeves show a perfect amount of shirt cuff, it has unfinished sleeves so they can be altered the right length and then have buttonholes put in, or with MTM/bespoke. This is why I find the recent trend of putting working sleeve buttonholes on off-the-rack coats as "a sign of quality" so bloody annoying.


----------



## ocatoro

Jovan said:


> You can shorten maybe a half inch at the end before it throws the balance off. Apart from that, don't get coats with working sleeve buttons unless the sleeves show a perfect amount of shirt cuff, it has unfinished sleeves so they can be altered the right length and then have buttonholes put in, or with MTM/bespoke. This is why I find the recent trend of putting working sleeve buttonholes on off-the-rack coats as "a sign of quality" so bloody annoying.


yeah exactly, and there's too much there to take them all off. i shall just have to find someone who can do it.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

ocatoro said:


> yeah exactly, and there's too much there to take them all off. i shall just have to find someone who can do it.


The nice thing about that, of course, is that hopefully in searching for one you'll find yourself a pretty darn good alterations tailor to take your other stuff to.


----------



## Chevo

Thanks!


hardline_42 said:


> Take a look at the tag and compare it to these.


----------



## MaroonHoosier

*Advice for a visit to J.Press in DC to buy a suit?*

Hello, I've been a regular reader for about two years, but a first-time poster, and I could use some advice from the seasoned readers in the Trad forum. I'm an Indianapolis resident with a chance to travel to DC for work, and am considering using the spare afternoon to visit J. Press to buy a suit. I'm in my mid-30s, work in the non-profit/public policy field, and would wear the suit mainly for hearings at the statehouse and the semi-annual Hill visit, etc. I'm about 5'10, 240, broad-shouldered and thick-thighed, so I thought the Press silhouette options would work well on my frame. There's a Brooks in the mall here in Indy, but Press might be a chance to stand apart. I'd be able to spend ~$700-800 if it's a good investment.

I currently have one solid charcoal Southwick suit purchased via ebay with a great jacket but odd-fitting pants (after tailoring) and one summer-weight solid navy Barney's suit purchased several sizes ago that's been let out to the max. I like the Southwick better, so I'm thinking the new suit should be navy, but I could be convinced otherwise.

Any advice on this opportunity? Is the shot at being fitted in-person for a Press 2/3 natural shoulder suit worth the time and cost vs. the Brooks store at the mall here in Indy? Anything to look for (or look OUT for!) at the DC Press store on a Saturday afternoon in early February? I've searched the site, but haven't found a thread this specific, so contributions or directions to previous discussions would be appreciated.

Yours,
the Maroon Hoosier


----------



## Jovan

ocatoro said:


> yeah exactly, and there's too much there to take them all off. i shall just have to find someone who can do it.


But is it any longer a good deal when you spend that much on alterations? On top of it, I worry about the body length being too long if you must take that much off the sleeves.


----------



## ocatoro

Jovan said:


> But is it any longer a good deal when you spend that much on alterations? On top of it, I worry about the body length being too long if you must take that much off the sleeves.


well... for the price i paid + some alterations, it will still have cost me less than 2/5 of the tag price. quite a bit less. so you tell me? i like the suit and i feel good wearing it. isn't that the whole point? when i have other priorities in order, then i will move onto made to measure. but for now i just can't afford that sort of gear.


----------



## ocatoro

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> The nice thing about that, of course, is that hopefully in searching for one you'll find yourself a pretty darn good alterations tailor to take your other stuff to.


hope so! more so now that i've just managed to thrift and apparently unworn giorgio armani 3 piece as well. it won't be everyone's cup of tea, but i think when the fit is adjusted slightly, it'll be a very nice suit to wear.

here's a quick photo.


----------



## hardline_42

^ Armani or not, that suit is killer. The button stance is a bit high and you should leave the bottom button on the waistcoat undone but, otherwise (and without a full view) it looks good. Love the tweed.


----------



## ocatoro

hardline_42 said:


> ^ Armani or not, that suit is killer. The button stance is a bit high and you should leave the bottom button on the waistcoat undone but, otherwise (and without a full view) it looks good. Love the tweed.


thanks, i thought so. it's a sort of felty feeling wool fabric. will get a photo later once my camera is charged of the texture.

thanks for the tip on the bottom button too. but why is that?


----------



## hardline_42

ocatoro said:


> thanks for the tip on the bottom button too. but why is that?


Opinions vary from "King Edward VII was too fat to button it and everyone copied it to make him feel better" to "it kept the waistcoat from riding up while on a horseback." In modern practice, it creates a better line (in your pic, you can see the pulling caused by buttoning it) and, since you don't/shouldn't unbutton a waistcoat when seated like you do a single-breasted suit jacket or blazer, it keeps it from riding up and making you uncomfortable while you sit.


----------



## ocatoro

hardline_42 said:


> ^ Armani or not, that suit is killer. The button stance is a bit high and you should leave the bottom button on the waistcoat undone but, otherwise (and without a full view) it looks good. Love the tweed.


got some closer photos it's sort of tan/camel, with a grey and chocolate check. in a felt feeling wool.


----------



## Christophe

Quick shoe-shining question: Should one use two separate horsehair brushes for black and brown shoes, as with shining cloths? Or is the one brush sufficient? Thanks!


----------



## The Rambler

there are two schools of thought on that...


----------



## hardline_42

The Rambler said:


> there are two schools of thought on that...


One camp says, use separate brushes. The other says, buy corrected grain.:tongue2:


----------



## Jovan

Christophe said:


> Quick shoe-shining question: Should one use two separate horsehair brushes for black and brown shoes, as with shining cloths? Or is the one brush sufficient? Thanks!


Yes, always.


----------



## Shaver

Christophe said:


> Quick shoe-shining question: Should one use two separate horsehair brushes for black and brown shoes, as with shining cloths? Or is the one brush sufficient? Thanks!


As well as separate brushes for black and brown shoes I recommend separate brushes for each different shade of brown shoes.


----------



## Christophe

Thanks for all the replies, I wasn't sure if the "separate" rule only applied to the cloths. Now I know! Also, Shaver, thanks for that bit. Right now all my browns are very similar, but once I get a lighter tan pair I'll be sure to heed that.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Noticed these Lands End "40's Poplin Dress Shirts" in various gingham colors that piqued my interest, but after recently discovering LE drastically shortened the collars of their Hyde Park, I'm wondering if all their dress shirts suffered the same fate. Does anyone have any experience with the collars on these shirts?


----------



## Jovan

By drastically do you mean a quarter inch or as short as LE Canvas?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan said:


> By drastically do you mean a quarter inch or as short as LE Canvas?


A quarter inch or maybe 3/8s, I can't recall. Closer, I'd say, to the length of my one LE Canvas shirt (madras, and packed away now so I can't compare them to be sure) than to the length of a decent collar.


----------



## ArtVandalay

I tried a couple of Hyde Parks a couple of months ago and the collars were 2.5". They immediately went back.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...-University-Stripe-OCBD&p=1332704#post1332704


----------



## Jovan

Good lord! What were they thinking? I really hope that was just some temporary mix-up with their Canvas line...


----------



## hardline_42

Nope. I ordered one thinking it was a fluke and when I got it, I didn't even take it out of the plastic wrap after seeing what I didn't want to believe. Went straight to Sears and haven't looked at another HP since.


----------



## Jovan

Write to Lands' End then? I certainly will be. That's kind of... wow. To think I was considering trying one.


----------



## SLeiber

Is anybody familiar with how older Brooksgate stuff compares to modern BB cuts? I have only tried the Fitzgerald and the Madison, with the Madison being a bit too big and the Fitzgerald fitting pretty well in a 38R.

Specifically, I'm interested in blazer as a birthday present to myself. It looks to be in great shape and I think it's a quality jacket, but I'm pretty new to Trad and don't even own a jacket that fits me, so I'm really nervous to spend $80 of my college-kid budget on a jacket that won't fit me.

Thanks in advance to anyone that could help me out


----------



## Jovan

Best then to wait until you get some things in person. You have to have a good knowledge of what jacket measurements work on you before buying over eBay. Even then it can carry a risk.


----------



## OJAW

I won't name the maker as yet, because I don't want to slag someone off for something that is not considered a problem by experienced jacket buyers.
I had a jacket made overseas in the UK (I was measured by a local tailor) and there were some major flaws in fit that had to be rectified by said local tailor.
These included shoulder width; had to be narrowed at least 1.5".
That is unfortunate, but can be put down to a possible mis-measurement at this end.
However, my main complaint is that my right pocket sits 1/4" higher than the left one. 
I saw it before I measured it, and yet the maker claims not to see it (photo sent).
I will take and send more photos, including ones with a measuring tape. 
I'm completely new to suits and suit jackets and so;
Am I out of line here?


----------



## ocatoro

please forgive the quick tie knot, I haven't got the hang of the proper one, and i was just trying on the shirt and tie. 

does the tie work? i think it looks great with the shirt, but not sure if it's clashing a bit with the pattern of the suit?


----------



## Orgetorix

It's a fine combo. The pattern on the vest is a small one, while the tie's pattern is on a fairly large scale, so it doesn't clash. I can't tell if the shirt is white or off-white/ecru, but either white or a light blue - something with a fair degree of contrast - would be best here.


----------



## ocatoro

Orgetorix said:


> It's a fine combo. The pattern on the vest is a small one, while the tie's pattern is on a fairly large scale, so it doesn't clash. I can't tell if the shirt is white or off-white/ecru, but either white or a light blue - something with a fair degree of contrast - would be best here.


Hi there, thanks for that. I kept looking in different mirrors and thinking "it works", "it sucks"... back and forth, like you do!

the shirt is creamy/beige. I tried on the vest with a white shirt but the back of the best is cream, so I prefer it with this shirt. Obviously I'll be wearing the jacket too, but I did feel the white was too stark and not quite earthy enough.


----------



## Howard

What do you do about wrinkly feet? You know from after a rainstorm you take off your socks and shoes and you find half of your feet have white pus on them? Could it be bad circulation? bad wearing socks or bad shoes?


----------



## ocatoro

you should only be getting wrinkly feet if your feet are soaking wet. pus and rain aren't connected though. if you have pus, you have a major infection and need a doctor.


----------



## Howard

ocatoro said:


> you should only be getting wrinkly feet if your feet are soaking wet. pus and rain aren't connected though. if you have pus, you have a major infection and need a doctor.


I do see a podiatrist every few months.


----------



## xcubbies

Howard said:


> I do see a podiatrist every few months.


I think we had a discussion about the proper footwear for working the Pathmark parking lot a few years back, when you were just a rookie there. Have you upgraded your boots? You might want to put some plastic bags on your feet to prevent the pus from leaking onto your boots.


----------



## MrDowntempo

Ok, quick question. What's the most versatile rubber soled shoe.


----------



## salgy

MrDowntempo said:


> Ok, quick question. What's the most versatile rubber soled shoe.


That's a little vague... Best dress shoe? Casual shoe? Athletic shoe? Boat shoe? Etc, etc, etc...


----------



## CLTesquire

MrDowntempo said:


> Ok, quick question. What's the most versatile rubber soled shoe.


that question might be slightly over broad...


----------



## Trip English

Topsider.


----------



## Tilton

1. Do the shoes below qualify as pebble grain?



2. Do I polish them like I would any other calf shoe?


----------



## MrDowntempo

salgy said:


> That's a little vague... Best dress shoe? Casual shoe? Athletic shoe? Boat shoe? Etc, etc, etc...


 Ok, to narrow it down, Causal Rubber Soled shoe. Boat shoes and Athletic shoes included. Ability to wear it as a versatile dress shoe acceptable but not required.


----------



## Howard

xcubbies said:


> I think we had a discussion about the proper footwear for working the Pathmark parking lot a few years back, when you were just a rookie there. Have you upgraded your boots? You might want to put some plastic bags on your feet to prevent the pus from leaking onto your boots.


I do wear Timberlands on my feet but I think it's the socks that I'm wearing, they're thermal socks to prevent my feet from getting too wet.


----------



## Orgetorix

Tilton said:


> 1. Do the shoes below qualify as pebble grain?
> 
> 2. Do I polish them like I would any other calf shoe?


Yes, and yes! Just don't go for a high-gloss spitshine, it won't go well with the more rustic nature of the leather. A nice matte gleam is what you want here.

Nice shoes. Are they PRL?


----------



## salgy

Tilton said:


> 1. Do the shoes below qualify as pebble grain?
> 2. Do I polish them like I would any other calf shoe?


1. yes 
2. maybe... i had (and continue to have) trouble with wax & my pebble grained AE PA's... i find that the wax collects in the "valleys" and it is nearly impossible to get it out easily... i would suggest a cream


----------



## salgy

MrDowntempo said:


> Ok, to narrow it down, Causal Rubber Soled shoe. Boat shoes and Athletic shoes included. Ability to wear it as a versatile dress shoe acceptable but not required.


i have a pair of brown on brown, bass, all leather, rubber soled, saddle shoes... i only wear them casually, when it's raining... cost me $35 at the outlet last summer... you _could_ wear them with a suit, but i haven't (and probably wouldn't)


----------



## Tilton

Orgetorix said:


> Yes, and yes! Just don't go for a high-gloss spitshine, it won't go well with the more rustic nature of the leather. A nice matte gleam is what you want here.
> 
> Nice shoes. Are they PRL?


Yes, they are PRL.


----------



## saccharomyces_cerevisiae

Quick Question on OCBDs (and I guess sport shirts in general). I do not own a single OCBD because of they way sport shirts are sized. I am tall and ideally take a 16.5"/37 shirt. I have tried a 16.5/6 from brooks brothers but the 50" chest is like a parachute. Does BB have any options off the rack for my dimensions? Basically are there any slim (read: not skin tight but not billowy) fitting options from BB with neck/sleeve sizing?

Thanks a ton!


----------



## Jovan

Not to be mean to a newbie, but how did you miss the Slim Fit shirts on the BB website?! Those should be what you are looking for -- not tent-like, but not constricting either.


----------



## L-feld

saccharomyces_cerevisiae said:


> Quick Question on OCBDs (and I guess sport shirts in general). I do not own a single OCBD because of they way sport shirts are sized. I am tall and ideally take a 16.5"/37 shirt. I have tried a 16.5/6 from brooks brothers but the 50" chest is like a parachute. Does BB have any options off the rack for my dimensions? Basically are there any slim (read: not skin tight but not billowy) fitting options from BB with neck/sleeve sizing?
> 
> Thanks a ton!


All of BB's sized OCBD's come is 4 fits: traditional, regular, slim, and extra slim. I would encourage you to go to a store and just try the different fits and see which works for you.

If the one you tried fit like a parachute, it was probably traditional fit. I would recommend you try the regular or slim. Unless you're a stick, in which case the extra slim might be what you're looking for.

It's funny, the voluminous fit of BB's OCBD's was once touted as a sign of quality.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## saccharomyces_cerevisiae

Jovan said:


> Not to be mean to a newbie, but how did you miss the Slim Fit shirts on the BB website?! Those should be what you are looking for -- not tent-like, but not constricting either.


No offense taken and I definitely could have been more clear. I don't have a BB near me (although one is opening 500 yards from my house "this spring!") so I am currently limited to online browsing. My issue isn't in missing the different fits "traditional/slim/extraslim", it is finding shirts sized beyond S/M/L/XL that don't end at my wrist while also fitting the rest of my body. For casual shirts I wouldn't mind, but over a sportcoat it get troublesome.



L-feld said:


> All of BB's sized OCBD's come is 4 fits: traditional, regular, slim, and extra slim. I would encourage you to go to a store and just try the different fits and see which works for you.
> 
> If the one you tried fit like a parachute, it was probably traditional fit. I would recommend you try the regular or slim. Unless you're a stick, in which case the extra slim might be what you're looking for.
> 
> It's funny, the voluminous fit of BB's OCBD's was once touted as a sign of quality.


Thanks for the reply. I know it was a traditional fit and considered taking it in, but I think it is way too drastic of a change to the dimensions. I noted above I am aware of the different cuts, but none of the M/L/XL comes remotely close to fitting my sleeve and neck and shoulder.

The billowy fit may be a sign of quality, but it is not quite enough to make me want to wear a shirt 6+ inches larger than my suit jackets/sport coat!

Edit: *Simply put: *Am I just blatantly missing a section of the website with oxford cloth shirts sized in neck/sleeve or are they all sized in S/M/L/XL?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

OCBDs aren't sports shirts. They should be neck-and-sleeve sized.


----------



## saccharomyces_cerevisiae

Really? That is probably my issue! On the BB website the only shirts I can find with "oxford" in the name are in the sport shirt section. Are the button down collars in the dress shirts what I should be aiming for?

I apologize for the time I have taken with my questions. This has been frustrating me and keeping me from pulling the trigger to try some out with these sales so I figured I would ask!


----------



## salgy

saccharomyces_cerevisiae said:


> Really? That is probably my issue! On the BB website the only shirts I can find with "oxford" in the name are in the sport shirt section. Are the button down collars in the dress shirts what I should be aiming for?


try this: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/mens....html?prefn1=collar&prefv1=Button-Down Collar


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

saccharomyces_cerevisiae said:


> Really? That is probably my issue! On the BB website the only shirts I can find with "oxford" in the name are in the sport shirt section. Are the button down collars in the dress shirts what I should be aiming for?
> 
> I apologize for the time I have taken with my questions. This has been frustrating me and keeping me from pulling the trigger to try some out with these sales so I figured I would ask!


You want the Classic All-Cotton Supima Oxfords. If you use the zoom tool on the photos, the tag will say "Made In USA of Imported Fabric," and those are the ones you want. They make them in all four fits.

EDIT: Here's the slim. 3 for $225 isn't a sale, it's the regular price. You may be able to get 40% off around Father's Day.


----------



## saccharomyces_cerevisiae

salgy said:


> try this: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/mens....html?prefn1=collar&prefv1=Button-Down Collar





Youthful Repp-robate said:


> You want the Classic All-Cotton Supima Oxfords. If you use the zoom tool on the photos, the tag will say "Made In USA of Imported Fabric," and those are the ones you want. They make them in all four fits.
> 
> EDIT: Here's the slim. 3 for $225 isn't a sale, it's the regular price. You may be able to get 40% off around Father's Day.


Ok, this makes a ton more sense to me now! Thank you so much to everyone that helped out!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

And there's the link I left out of my post, which made it rather incoherent. :icon_pale:


----------



## Jovan

saccharomyces_cerevisiae said:


> No offense taken and I definitely could have been more clear. I don't have a BB near me (although one is opening 500 yards from my house "this spring!") so I am currently limited to online browsing. My issue isn't in missing the different fits "traditional/slim/extraslim", it is finding shirts sized beyond S/M/L/XL that don't end at my wrist while also fitting the rest of my body. For casual shirts I wouldn't mind, but over a sportcoat it get troublesome.


Ah, sorry. I should have paid more attention to that part of your post. But the other guys cleared it up for you.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

Does anyone know the name of this now discontinued AE model?


Cap toe balmoral with brogued borders but a plain toe.


----------



## NathanielD

How many navy jackets do you own? I have a nice thick cotton 3 button, but I really want a 3/2 with patch pockets. Is it acceptable to have a little overlap?


----------



## Jovan

Please specify what you mean by "overlap".


----------



## tuckspub

Question about sports jackets for BB, they almost all seem to be 346 or Brookease or Stretch. I am wanting a quality selection of sports jackets and it seems the BB 46Long fits pretty well. Which selections should I be looking out for on Ebay or thrifting, is it just that there are so many more in the less expensive categories, do they make many 1818 or Golden Fleece as individual jackets?


----------



## Orgetorix

tuckspub said:


> Question about sports jackets for BB, they almost all seem to be 346 or Brookease or Stretch. I am wanting a quality selection of sports jackets and it seems the BB 46Long fits pretty well. Which selections should I be looking out for on Ebay or thrifting, is it just that there are so many more in the less expensive categories, do they make many 1818 or Golden Fleece as individual jackets?


For vintage, look for ones labeled "Makers" or "Brooksgate." 346 is OK too if it's the old label - narrow blue rectangle with yellow lettering, in the back neck area of the jacket. Just avoid the ones that are larger rectangles with "346" in a script font in the pocket area.

And yes, they make lots of 1818 sportcoats. There are a few Golden Fleece sportcoats, but they're rarer.


----------



## NathanielD

Jovan said:


> Please specify what you mean by "overlap".


I mean having two blue blazers / jackets. One with 3 buttons, flapped pockets, made from cotton, and one 3/2, patch pockets, made from wool. You wouldn't call that an overlap or redundancy in your wardrobe?

Maybe I am over thinking it.


----------



## Jovan

Ah, no, not redundant at all. I already own two navy blazers, a flannel three button that's unconstructed and a hopsack three roll two sack. Obviously the latter is better for summer. And that's the heart of the matter right there -- suitability for different occasions and times of year.


----------



## Christophe

NathanielD said:


> I mean having two blue blazers / jackets. One with 3 buttons, flapped pockets, made from cotton, and one 3/2, patch pockets, made from wool. You wouldn't call that an overlap or redundancy in your wardrobe?
> 
> Maybe I am over thinking it.


I think that two (or even three) blue blazers is not just OK, but important! I have one poly/wool blend, 2 button darted for summer and when I don't want to risk ruining my nice one, which is a heavier wool 3/3 sack, as well as a newer one a size up to wear with thick sweaters. I've thrifted them all, so it's not a financial burden, but because they are worn much more often than other jackets, I think it's important to have multiple.


----------



## Patrick06790

I think I have 10 blazers.


----------



## AncientMadder

I think it's perfectly reasonable to have a few navy coats, especially if they are in different weights/configurations. 

I had four blazers until recently: 3 Brooks Brothers sacks (1 hopsack), 1 Bullock and Jones cashmere. One of the Brooks Brothers wore out and I sold the cashmere so am down to two.

I also have a navy Oxxford silk sportcoat and a blue Boglioli unstructured coat for extra casual wear.


----------



## AncientMadder

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> You want the Classic All-Cotton Supima Oxfords. If you use the zoom tool on the photos, the tag will say "Made In USA of Imported Fabric," and those are the ones you want. They make them in all four fits.
> 
> EDIT: Here's the slim. 3 for $225 isn't a sale, it's the regular price. You may be able to get 40% off around Father's Day.


Until recently it was 3 for $199. Not a huge jump, but that's too bad.


----------



## MrDowntempo

What outfits is it acceptable to wear a tie with that aren't suits. And follow up, Is it ever okay to wear a tie with an OCBD?


----------



## Estel

MrDowntempo: I have no claim to either traddity or extensive knowledge, but from my observation around these parts, a tie with an OCBD is pretty standard. Take a look at the recent posts in the Trad "What are you Wearing" thread, and you'll see the combination quite frequently. (The rest of your question is better answered by someone more knowledgeable.)


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

It's always okay to wear a tie with a buttondown collar here -- though it really doesn't work with stingy, Uniqlo-style collars. Don't wear a tie without some kind of sportcoat/blazer. Read all the stickied threads, plus _Clothes & The Man _by Alan Flusser.



AncientMadder said:


> Until recently it was 3 for $199. Not a huge jump, but that's too bad.


Yeah, that's a bummer. I think it was 3 for $175 not so long ago, too. I'm saving my pennies for a few during that Father's Day sale -- though that said, it may be more like next Christmas before I can get some.


----------



## Jovan

YRR: What about sweaters?


----------



## Spin Evans

MrDowntempo said:


> What outfits is it acceptable to wear a tie with that aren't suits. And follow up, Is it ever okay to wear a tie with an OCBD?


I just moved out of Kissimmee, so I know what a pain it can be to wear a coat during most of the year. However, ties are best with sport coats, if you don't want to wear a suit. Linen really does go a _long_ way, as does minimal lining. I've walked around Disney in a blazer more than once, so it can be done comfortably.


----------



## tuckspub

Question concerning lenthening of sleeves. I just received a BB silk and wool jacket which I think fits fine,,,,except the sleeve length, which is about two or three too short. I can feel that there is plenty of fabric beneath the sleeve and my question is can I successfully have them lengthened to that extent as long as they move the buttons as well? I Ebayed the jacket so don't have much invested and already have the OK from seller to return it, but the fact remains that I like the fabric and cut, so is it worth it to alter it to that great an extent? Thanks for your consideration in advance.


----------



## salgy

tuckspub said:


> is it worth it to alter it to that great an extent?


Tuckspub, in my experience, lengthening sleeves is the easiest & most common alteration on suits/jackets... A competent tailor can even add fabric to the inside of the sleeve to give you more length than the fabric of the jacket itself... That said, the risk you run with an eBay purchase is that there will be a visible line from where the old sleeve ended... The newer the coat & the better cared for, the better your chances are that this may not be noticeable, but the risk is still there


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan said:


> YRR: What about sweaters?


As a rule, nope. It's a rule that at least two very well-dressed members of this forum (OCBD and stcolumba) break often and with great aplomb, but they know what they're doing. They're intentionally pushing boundaries in terms of formality levels, and it works well enough for them_._ Most people in a tie and a sweater sans jacket look much worse than they would in an appropriate jacket.

That said, if it's too hot for a jacket, I find that having an open collar is much preferable. I'm fortunate enough to "run cold," so I often carry a jacket with me that I put on when I enter a building (always over-cooled).


----------



## Jovan

That's awfully dogmatic, no? I find a cardigan especially can often go in place of a jacket.


----------



## tuckspub

Many thanks Salgy I shall go in search of a competent tailor.


----------



## AncientMadder

salgy said:


> A competent tailor can even add fabric to the inside of the sleeve to give you more length than the fabric of the jacket itself...


Salgy: Would you mind explaining a little more how this works?

I'm curious because I have a jacket that's still slightly too short in the sleeves after alterations, even after adding facing to squeeze another quarter inch-there's just not enough fabric.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan said:


> That's awfully dogmatic, no? I find a cardigan especially can often go in place of a jacket.


Not really. It still strikes me as a mismatch of formality -- like black shoes with tweed. Could you do it with the right ingredients? Of course, but even then you're swimming against the current. You end up with an outfit that's not dressy, but not casual either.


----------



## Shaver

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Not really. It still strikes me as a mismatch of formality -- like black shoes with tweed. Could you do it with the right ingredients? Of course, but even then you're swimming against the current. You end up with an outfit that's not dressy, but not casual either.


Although I am in agreement with you here Y/R oddly enough I find a slip-over coupled with a tie to be rather smart - yet for the life of me I cannot conceive of a valid rationale to support my approval of one over the other resultant of this relatively minor difference.


----------



## Jovan

How is it a mismatch of formality? It depends on the tie.


----------



## salgy

AncientMadder said:


> Salgy: Would you mind explaining a little more how this works?
> 
> I'm curious because I have a jacket that's still slightly too short in the sleeves after alterations, even after adding facing to squeeze another quarter inch-there's just not enough fabric.


Sorry for the tardy reply, facing was what I was talking about, I just had forgotten the term...

Could your tailor add facing to the shoulder to give you that 1/4 inch? I don't know if it's possible, and probably pricey...


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan said:


> How is it a mismatch of formality? It depends on the tie.


The mere presence of a tie makes it more formal. The only reason to not wear a jacket when wearing a tie is that you _really_ want to wear a tie, and for whatever reason a tailored jacket would be inappropriate or inconvenient. In my experience, a tie becomes inconvenient or inappropriate before a jacket does. That's also my preference to wear sportcoats in a fairly casual context, and sweaters in an_ extremely_ casual context.

Just so I'm clear, Shaver, you mean a sleeveless sweater vest under a tailored jacket with a tie, right? I happen to think that's a great look -- all the style and practicality of an odd vest, but odd vests strike me as slightly anachronistic.


----------



## Shaver

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> The mere presence of a tie makes it more formal. The only reason to not wear a jacket when wearing a tie is that you _really_ want to wear a tie, and for whatever reason a tailored jacket would be inappropriate or inconvenient. In my experience, a tie becomes inconvenient or inappropriate before a jacket does. That's also my preference to wear sportcoats in a fairly casual context, and sweaters in an_ extremely_ casual context.
> 
> Just so I'm clear, Shaver, you mean a sleeveless sweater vest under a tailored jacket with a tie, right? I happen to think that's a great look -- all the style and practicality of an odd vest, but odd vests strike me as slightly anachronistic.


Absolutely, a sleeveless v-neck sweater, and which I too really approve of with a jacket. However to expand and clarify, a sleeveless v-neck sweater (slip-over) worn with a tie but without a jacket also seems very smart to me - in a way that a sweater and a tie sans jacket does not. I don't seem to be able to pin-point why this should be, but intuitively it feels more correct.


----------



## Jovan

Well, I'm gonna stick to my sweaters and ties. Though in the colder weather I'm often wearing them with sport coats. The only real formality mismatch I can think of are sweaters worn with suits -- but again, this may depend. A tweed suit would look more natural with a sweater than, say, a worsted city suit.


----------



## Tilton

Why do my flat front chinos balloon out around the hips? The wait and seat fit great, they aren't pulling across the front. It is like there is too much fabric in the hips and they're just too loose in the hips. I haven't had this problem with previous chinos (Orvis Cramerton Army Base chinos, Bills, BB), but I recently bought several pairs where, after a few wearings, they have starting looking like this (J Crew Regular Fit and Relaxed Fit Essential Chinos, and a pair of Vineyard Vines Club Pants). Of course, I could just not wear them and go back to Orvis and Bills, but I'd still like to know.


----------



## hardline_42

^ On-seam pockets have a tendency to flare out at the hips depending on the weight of the fabric and the tailoring, making them appear wider. Try and find some chinos with slash-front pockets. They don't get much love on the forum, but they might solve your problem.


----------



## Tilton

hardline_42 said:


> ^ On-seam pockets have a tendency to flare out at the hips depending on the weight of the fabric and the tailoring, making them appear wider. Try and find some chinos with slash-front pockets. They don't get much love on the forum, but they might solve your problem.


Just took a look at my chinos with this in mind. That's probably exactly it. My Bills and Orvis chinos are cramerton or of similar heft and stiffness whereas the more recently acquired are all of lighter softer material. I guess when buying less heavy and stiff chinos in the future, I might look at slash pockets, if I can find them. I bought a pair of navy chinos on clearance at J McLaughlin not too long ago with slash pockets, but I think those are the only ones I own.


----------



## Himself

Tilton said:


> Why do my flat front chinos balloon out around the hips? The wait and seat fit great, they aren't pulling across the front. It is like there is too much fabric in the hips and they're just too loose in the hips. I haven't had this problem with previous chinos (Orvis Cramerton Army Base chinos, Bills, BB), but I recently bought several pairs where, after a few wearings, they have starting looking like this (J Crew Regular Fit and Relaxed Fit Essential Chinos, and a pair of Vineyard Vines Club Pants). Of course, I could just not wear them and go back to Orvis and Bills, but I'd still like to know.


I agree about on-seam pockets being more susceptible, but it's also the cut of the pants. Bills M2 are quite baggy on me but don't bellow out to the sides like some others.

How snug are yours around your waist, and respectively, just below the waist, where the bellow is? If I get mine tailored snugly, voila, no bellow. Try it in a mirror, with no belt on, grab the back and pinch out the slack.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Just got my first pair of moleskin trousers -- LE Traditional fit. They're a bit long, and a bit wide at the leg opening. Should I wash and dry them once on hot/hot to get all the shrinkage done with, or should I wash them normally (warm/cool or cool/cool) a few times?


----------



## Jovan

Normal.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan said:


> Normal.


But I would mind if they shrank a little bit, and I'd like to get them stabilized in terms of shrinkage before I take them to the tailor.


----------



## Tamarina

I would wash on Normal or whatever the washing instruction label says.

The danger with a too hot a wash is that the fabric can start to disintegrate and change texture - your lovely soft moleskin becomes more of a sandpaper texture. 

Also the seams could warp, giving you twisty legs or wrinkling in the fabric along the seams as the main fabric could shrink at a differing rate to the thread used to sew the seams. 

Overall I just wouldn't risk a hot wash....several normal or whatever the washing label says washes would be a far safer way to preshrink before tailoring imo.


----------



## Shaver

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Just got my first pair of moleskin trousers -- LE Traditional fit. They're a bit long, and a bit wide at the leg opening. Should I wash and dry them once on hot/hot to get all the shrinkage done with, or should I wash them normally (warm/cool or cool/cool) a few times?


Now you have your moleskins you will never want to take them off!

I recommend a 40 degree wash _maximum_ (with the garment inside out) and never *ever* put them in a spin dryer. Mine have not shrunk, not to any degree I can appreciate at least.

Ironing must always be undertaken with the trousers inside-out, always the reverse never the obverse - except to obtain the crease which must be done through a tea towel or similar piece of cloth. Once you have ironed the creases to your satisfaction then turn the trousers inside-out again and run a bar of soap down the four crease lines. Next turn the trousers right way out and re-iron the creases through the tea towel again. This will ensure that the creases hold for as long as possible between washes. Moleskins deflect dirt and grime and will not need to be washed very often.

By 'wide at the leg opening' what do you mean exactly - where the foot comes out? It is of course your preference but to my mind moleskins should be cut to drape exactly as suit trousers so a decent width at the trouser hem is required.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Thanks, everyone. The cloth is amazing stuff. They already have twisty legs -- I think there's simple too much material through the legs for them to drape properly, and I generally wear trousers with a slightly narrower leg. I do hate how tailored clothing looks with overly skinny pants, but I think these would look better with a little bit less through the legs. Given the degree of waist suppression I prefer, I think the proportions are better with a closer-fitting leg. A press might sort it out, though. I hadn't heard about the trick with the bar of soap -- does that work on other materials? 

I may have to chance a spin dryer, because I can't really hang things up to dry in my dorm. Right now, my plan is one wash/dry (on the coolest settings), then a trip to the tailor -- unless I decide I only want them hemmed a little, in which case I'll probably do it myself or get a friend from the costume shop to do it.


----------



## Shaver

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Thanks, everyone. The cloth is amazing stuff. They already have twisty legs -- I think there's simple too much material through the legs for them to drape properly, and I generally wear trousers with a slightly narrower leg. I do hate how tailored clothing looks with overly skinny pants, but I think these would look better with a little bit less through the legs*. Given the degree of waist suppression I prefer, I think the proportions are better with a closer-fitting leg.* A press might sort it out, though. I hadn't heard about the trick with the bar of soap -- does that work on other materials?
> 
> I may have to chance a spin dryer, because I can't really hang things up to dry in my dorm. Right now, my plan is one wash/dry (on the coolest settings), then a trip to the tailor -- unless I decide I only want them hemmed a little, in which case I'll probably do it myself or get a friend from the costume shop to do it.


There's nothing wrong in wearing a heavy waist suppression jacket combined with loose trews. :icon_smile:









The bar of soap trick (it's a military technique) will work with any trousers - I use it on all of mine, woollens or cottons.


----------



## Orgetorix

Shaver said:


> There's nothing wrong in wearing a heavy waist suppression jacket combined with loose trews.


That something has been done before does not mean there's nothing wrong with it. This is a common internet-clothing-forum fallacy.


----------



## Langham

Shaver said:


> Now you have your moleskins you will never want to take them off!
> 
> I recommend a 40 degree wash _maximum_ (with the garment inside out) and never *ever* put them in a spin dryer. Mine have not shrunk, not to any degree I can appreciate at least.
> 
> Ironing must always be undertaken with the trousers inside-out, always the reverse never the obverse - except to obtain the crease which must be done through a tea towel or similar piece of cloth. Once you have ironed the creases to your satisfaction then turn the trousers inside-out again and run a bar of soap down the four crease lines. Next turn the trousers right way out and re-iron the creases through the tea towel again. This will ensure that the creases hold for as long as possible between washes. Moleskins deflect dirt and grime and will not need to be washed very often.
> 
> By 'wide at the leg opening' what do you mean exactly - where the foot comes out? It is of course your preference but to my mind moleskins should be cut to drape exactly as suit trousers so a decent width at the trouser hem is required.


Your advice about washing temperature, turning them inside out etc is all sound with the exception of putting a crease in. You should _never_ put a crease in moleskins, Shaver!:teacha: In my experience, any crease will very quickly develop a 'fade', which is not a look I favour. I think all fustian trousers look better just ironed flat, side to side (from the inside, as you recommend). Creases in trouser legs seem to be a shibboleth for many people but personally I restrict them to the trousers of my suits and one or two other woollen trousers.


----------



## Shaver

Orgetorix said:


> That something has been done before does not mean there's nothing wrong with it. This is a common internet-clothing-forum fallacy.


The one thing does not necessarily relate to the other, however. Indeed, doing correctly that which has been done before (tradition) is one of the primary goals of this forum is it not? At any rate internet clothing forum fallacies are, as far as I can tell, generated by those with little prior and/or direct experience. :icon_smile:


----------



## Shaver

Langham said:


> Your advice about washing temperature, turning them inside out etc is all sound with the exception of putting a crease in. You should _never_ put a crease in moleskins, Shaver!:teacha: In my experience, any crease will very quickly develop a 'fade', which is not a look I favour. I think all fustian trousers look better just ironed flat, side to side (from the inside, as you recommend). Creases in trouser legs seem to be a shibboleth for many people but personally I restrict them to the trousers of my suits and one or two other woollen trousers.


We are of course free to amicably disagree on this one. My own preference for an ultra-groomed demeanour urges me to crease all of my trousers (pyjama bottoms excepted). I imagine most of our colleagues on this forum have razor-sharp creases in, for example, their chinos?


----------



## Langham

Shaver said:


> We are of course free to amicably disagree on this one. My own preference for an ultra-groomed demeanour urges me to crease all of my trousers (pyjama bottoms excepted). I imagine most of our colleagues on this forum have razor-sharp creases in, for example, their chinos?


Cotton drill trousers I also spare from the crease.

There is some historical precedent both for and against creases in trousers, but I think with many cotton trousers there are sound practical reasons against them.


----------



## Shaver

Langham said:


> Cotton drill trousers I also spare from the crease.
> 
> There is some historical precedent both for and against creases in trousers, but I think with many cotton trousers there are sound practical reasons against them.


Possibly, however practicality is not the primary driver to my sartorial choices, these are mainly governed by appearance.


----------



## Langham

Shaver said:


> Possibly, however practicality is not the primary driver to my sartorial choices, these are mainly governed by appearance.


Shaver, I am impelled to the conclusion that you would have been an ornament to the Brigade of Guards.:icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Shaver

Langham said:


> Shaver, I am impelled to the conclusion that you would have been an ornament to the Brigade of Guards.:icon_smile_wink:


Honi soit qui mal y pense. :icon_smile:


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Orgetorix said:


> That something has been done before does not mean there's nothing wrong with it. This is a common internet-clothing-forum fallacy.


Actually, it's just that '30s look that I'm trying to avoid -- not something I'd be comfortable wearing. Here's a quick full-length picture -- I'm not sure if they'll look right with a hem, or if they still need an inch or so out of the width. Any thoughts? My apologies for not focussing or framing better: I just snapped this for myself since I don't have a full-length mirror. I'm somewhat amused that the clutter there shows the differences between my roommate's footwear and my own.


----------



## Orgetorix

Honestly, YR, those just look too big for you IMO. You're a fit, slim guy, why not take advantage of it? You don't have to go full on skinny pants; something akin to the Brooks Brothers Clark straight fit would be flattering.


----------



## Shaver

Orgetorix said:


> Honestly, YR, those just look too big for you IMO. You're a fit, slim guy, why not take advantage of it? You don't have to go full on skinny pants; something akin to the Brooks Brothers Clark straight fit would be flattering.


I am inclined to agree.

Although, that said (and joking apart) they genuinely might look better with a decent sharp crease in them........


----------



## frat pack

I have scoured the internet but am unable to find a pincord suit to my liking. Brooks Brothers offered a fitzgerald fit pincord suit in 2011, but I waited too long to pull the trigger. They were unavailable last year and this year is looking no different. I know that O'Connell's has a pincord suit but it looks boxy and will considerable rework so it doesn't look draped over my wiry frame. 

Can anyone offer ideas for where to locate a pincord suit? Not interested in seersucker btw.


----------



## Bjorn

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Actually, it's just that '30s look that I'm trying to avoid -- not something I'd be comfortable wearing. Here's a quick full-length picture -- I'm not sure if they'll look right with a hem, or if they still need an inch or so out of the width. Any thoughts? My apologies for not focussing or framing better: I just snapped this for myself since I don't have a full-length mirror. I'm somewhat amused that the clutter there shows the differences between my roommate's footwear and my own.


They need a crease 1st, not sure if they need slimming. ?


----------



## hardline_42

frat pack said:


> I have scoured the internet but am unable to find a pincord suit to my liking. Brooks Brothers offered a fitzgerald fit pincord suit in 2011, but I waited too long to pull the trigger. They were unavailable last year and this year is looking no different. I know that O'Connell's has a pincord suit but it looks boxy and will considerable rework so it doesn't look draped over my wiry frame.
> 
> Can anyone offer ideas for where to locate a pincord suit? Not interested in seersucker btw.


Haspel makes a navy/white pincord suit that's pretty affordable.
https://www.esuit.com/haspel/index.htm


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Orgetorix said:


> Honestly, YR, those just look too big for you IMO. You're a fit, slim guy, why not take advantage of it? You don't have to go full on skinny pants; something akin to the Brooks Brothers Clark straight fit would be flattering.


Ehh, because I really wanted tan moleskins, and these were the cheapest by far. Even if I spend another $30 on tailoring, they're still a pretty good value. I'd heard LE is cutting "traditional fit" pants slimmer than before -- and they are -- but still not quite slim enough for me. I certainly won't be repeating the mistake, and now I've just gotta decide if I should try and make them work with a crease or take them straight to the tailor.


----------



## Jovan

I would just slim them to about 17" around the leg opening, from the knee down.


----------



## mhj

Please help me work through this issue. I received a new pair of flat front khakis from Jack Donnelly yesterday, which I like very much so far. 

I gave them an initial laundering last night and plan to take them to the tailor on the way home from work tonight. I'm still undecided on cuffs or no cuffs. From my online research it seems that the trad canon holds that it is "personal preference". In my mind cuffs would require a sharp crease at all times to achieve the proper look requiring higher maintenance. 

Someone please make the case for going one way or the other on this. I'm leaning towards cuffs but am not fully convinced I will like the look.


----------



## hardline_42

mhj said:


> Please help me work through this issue. I received a new pair of flat front khakis from Jack Donnelly yesterday, which I like very much so far.
> 
> I gave them an initial laundering last night and plan to take them to the tailor on the way home from work tonight. I'm still undecided on cuffs or no cuffs. From my online research it seems that the trad canon holds that it is "personal preference". In my mind cuffs would require a sharp crease at all times to achieve the proper look requiring higher maintenance.
> 
> Someone please make the case for going one way or the other on this. I'm leaning towards cuffs but am not fully convinced I will like the look.


Cuffs don't "need" a crease to be effective. Their purpose is to add weight to the cuff to improve the drape and movement of the leg as well as provide a finished appearance. Cuffs can help maintain a crease better than a plain hem, but a crease doesn't do anything for a cuff that it can't already do on its own. If it's a "looks" thing, get them cuffed first, try them with and without a crease, and see what your preference is. If you don't like the cuffs, have them turned into plain hems. Unless your tailor leaves a very long allowance, you won't be able to go plain hems and then cuffs.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Chinos without cuffs are like a dog without a tail :tongue2: Really it is not that serious and is a personal preference. I have a few pairs without and I have learned that I like them better with. Take hardline's advice as you can always go from cuff to plain and rarely if ever from plain to cuff.


----------



## Bjorn

mhj said:


> Please help me work through this issue. I received a new pair of flat front khakis from Jack Donnelly yesterday, which I like very much so far.
> 
> I gave them an initial laundering last night and plan to take them to the tailor on the way home from work tonight. I'm still undecided on cuffs or no cuffs. From my online research it seems that the trad canon holds that it is "personal preference". In my mind cuffs would require a sharp crease at all times to achieve the proper look requiring higher maintenance.
> 
> Someone please make the case for going one way or the other on this. I'm leaning towards cuffs but am not fully convinced I will like the look.


Tall or short?

Tall, cuffs

Short, no cuffs

IMO...


----------



## Jovan

Yes, in your opinion.  Short men can wear cuffs just fine, so long as they are proportionately smaller.


----------



## Bjorn

Jovan said:


> Yes, in your opinion.  Short men can wear cuffs just fine, so long as they are proportionately smaller.


But it's just not as good... It shortens. Breaks up horizontally, no?


----------



## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> Yes, in your opinion.  Short men can wear cuffs just fine, so long as they are proportionately smaller.


Poppycock. I'm 5'3" and I wear 1.5" cuffs on everything. In most cases, short men are not "proportionally smaller." We just have shorter limbs, so a 1.25" cuff doesn't look "right," it looks tiny. In my experience as a short, clothes-wearing man, it's safe to ignore any and all clothing rules that make you "appear" taller and only observe those which are true for all body types (eg: fit).


----------



## Jovan

Fair enough. But you definitely wouldn't wear 2" cuffs.


----------



## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> Fair enough. But you definitely wouldn't wear 2" cuffs.


I might, if I needed extra business card storage space :tongue2:









_D and D of Windsor. Short man with tall cuffs._


----------



## L-feld

I find that the same is true for clothing rules about making you appear thinner. Wear what fits you and enjoy it for what it's worth.



hardline_42 said:


> Poppycock. I'm 5'3" and I wear 1.5" cuffs on everything. In most cases, short men are not "proportionally smaller." We just have shorter limbs, so a 1.25" cuff doesn't look "right," it looks tiny. In my experience as a short, clothes-wearing man, it's safe to ignore any and all clothing rules that make you "appear" taller and only observe those which are true for all body types (eg: fit).


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## mhj

Well, I'm 5'10" so I think I'm tall enough for cuffs so unless I change my mind before I get to the tailor shop I'm going with them. Thanks for the input.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays

This is one of those questions for which I already know the answer, but am holding on to the slim chance that someone might prove me wrong...

Is it possible to let out the sleeves of a raincoat without leaving a line?
I thrifted a burberry in my size but the sleeves are an inch or so short.


----------



## Jovan

hardline_42 said:


> I might, if I needed extra business card storage space :tongue2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _D and D of Windsor. Short man with tall cuffs._


Forget about the trouser cuffs, look at those lapels! They're like a cobra ready to strike.


----------



## DoghouseReilly

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> This is one of those questions for which I already know the answer, but am holding on to the slim chance that someone might prove me wrong...
> 
> Is it possible to let out the sleeves of a raincoat without leaving a line?
> I thrifted a burberry in my size but the sleeves are an inch or so short.


I doubt it, but I wouldn't fret. When I had the sleeves let out on my raincoat, I had the seamstress put a stitch around the sleeve in the same place the old sleeve end used to be. It looks remarkably good.


----------



## AncientMadder

^+1. I did the same—had the tailor add a line of stitching—and it worked great.


----------



## Bjorn

hardline_42 said:


> Poppycock. I'm 5'3" and I wear 1.5" cuffs on everything. In most cases, short men are not "proportionally smaller." We just have shorter limbs, so a 1.25" cuff doesn't look "right," it looks tiny. In my experience as a short, clothes-wearing man, it's safe to ignore any and all clothing rules that make you "appear" taller and only observe those which are true for all body types (eg: fit).


Oh noes! The "I do it so it must be right"-argument. 
*powers of argumentation waning* 
Damn you, damn you to heck 

I'm around 170cm, and I have the exact opposite view from you, and try to take those rules of thumb that don't make me look shorter to heart. I feel it's good to try to dress to my advantage.

I would agree though that us short guys are not proportionally smaller. No sir. If its something we are not, it's proportionally smaller.  sry couldn't resist


----------



## hardline_42

Bjorn said:


> I'm around 170cm, and I have the exact opposite view from you, and try to take those rules of thumb that don't make me look shorter to heart. I feel it's good to try to dress to my advantage.


Do you believe those "rules of thumb" can really make you look taller?


----------



## Flairball

I've got a really stupid question; which button, or buttons do you fasten when wearing a three button jacket? Top two? Middle only? I'm pretty sure you never button the bottom, ever. But I've been wrong before.


----------



## hardline_42

Flairball said:


> I've got a really stupid question; which button, or buttons do you fasten when wearing a three button jacket? Top two? Middle only? I'm pretty sure you never button the bottom, ever. But I've been wrong before.


As a quick rule of thumb, starting from the top, it's "sometimes, always, never." However, it really depends on the cut of the jacket and which button falls at your natural waist.


----------



## MDP

So...I have what I've come to find out is an oddly shaped foot and ankle. The bone that protrudes from the side of my ankles is set very low. That, combined with a high instep makes most leather shoes very uncomfortably for me to wear.

The two kinds of shoes I've found that work best are loafers (since they are cut so low) and boots (since they are cut over the top of the ankle). 

Is it possible to cover the spectrum of formality (black tie - casual) with only loafers and boots?


----------



## Shaver

hardline_42 said:


> As a quick rule of thumb, starting from the top, it's "sometimes, always, never." However, it really depends on the cut of the jacket and which button falls at your natural waist.


To which I would add that on a three button suit I tend to mostly wear only the central button fastened up and reserve the fastening of the top button for those moments I may need to be extra smart. There is, however, an occasion I will fasten the bottom button - but this is only if unexpectedly caught in inclement weather.


----------



## Orgetorix

MDP said:


> So...I have what I've come to find out is an oddly shaped foot and ankle. The bone that protrudes from the side of my ankles is set very low. That, combined with a high instep makes most leather shoes very uncomfortably for me to wear.
> 
> The two kinds of shoes I've found that work best are loafers (since they are cut so low) and boots (since they are cut over the top of the ankle).
> 
> Is it possible to cover the spectrum of formality (black tie - casual) with only loafers and boots?


Get you a pair or two of bal boots and they'll cover anything that loafers won't. Black ones with a spit shine will do OK with black tie.


----------



## RunningRacer83

First time poster here so I appreciate your consideration. I have a quick question regarding BB Chinos. I currently have a BB Madison suit (39R) and I am curious which style of chinos most closely resembles the fit of the Madison pant- the Clark or the Hudson. Any advice is greatly appreciated!


----------



## closerlook

here is what is probably a no brainer, but i ask anyway:
are the Chipp2 dog ties 100 percent silk? it doesn't say online. also, are they all 4in wide, or do they do 3.5.
cheers, friends.


----------



## OleH

Where to buy good quality tan chinos without creases?
thanks!


----------



## Jovan

closerlook said:


> here is what is probably a no brainer, but i ask anyway:
> are the Chipp2 dog ties 100 percent silk? it doesn't say online. also, are they all 4in wide, or do they do 3.5.
> cheers, friends.


Why not ask Paul Winston himself? His number is on the website.


----------



## Svalan

Hello,

I have got the opportunity to buy a blue oxford shirt with a button down club collar very cheap. 
Is a button down club collar nice? What do you wear it with, do you have to wear a tie or could i just leave the 2 top buttons un buttoned? Is this shirt style rare?
It's just that i have never seen it before.
Thanks.


----------



## hardline_42

Svalan said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have got the opportunity to buy a blue oxford shirt with a button down club collar very cheap.
> Is a button down club collar nice? What do you wear it with, do you have to wear a tie or could i just leave the 2 top buttons un buttoned? Is this shirt style rare?
> It's just that i have never seen it before.
> Thanks.


That's kind of a rare combination, but it's been done:


----------



## emb1980

Do you roll up your pant legs when wearing boat shoes (presumably with no socks)? How much if so?


----------



## Topsider

hardline_42 said:


> That's kind of a rare combination, but it's been done:


Whoa. That's pretty awesome!


----------



## hardline_42

emb1980 said:


> Do you roll up your pant legs when wearing boat shoes (presumably with no socks)? How much if so?


Depends on how deep the water is.


----------



## Topsider

emb1980 said:


> Do you roll up your pant legs when wearing boat shoes (presumably with no socks)?


No. I never roll my pant legs up, unless I'm wading in the surf. In that event, I don't have shoes on at all.


----------



## NathanielD

Do any of you "cuff" your blue jeans?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

^^

I do, but I just do. It's not an informed decision.


----------



## Topsider

I don't. I used to, back in the 80's. I used to wear my polo shirt collars up then, too.


----------



## Stirling Newberry

I don't wear jeans when not working with horses.


----------



## Jovan

Blue jean snobbery, go!


----------



## Shaver

Jovan said:


> Blue jean snobbery, go!


It saddens me that we even talk about jeans on a forum devoted to stylish menswear.

How's that for starters?


----------



## hardline_42

Shaver said:


> It saddens me that we even talk about jeans on a forum devoted to stylish menswear.
> 
> How's that for starters?


Agreed, my good man. Dungarees are uncomfortable to wear, hot in the summer, cold in the winter and riddled with seams and rivets in the most sensitive places. Even when it comes to workwear, there are better/more comfortable designs than the ubiquitous five-pocket. And please, don't get me started on wearing sport coats with jeans.:devil:


----------



## Shaver

hardline_42 said:


> Agreed, my good man. Dungarees are uncomfortable to wear, hot in the summer, cold in the winter and riddled with seams and rivets in the most sensitive places. Even when it comes to workwear, there are better/more comfortable designs than the ubiquitous five-pocket. And please, don't get me started on wearing sport coats with jeans.:devil:


I have thought about the 'jeans problem' quite a bit since I joined AAAC. Prior to that I just dismissed them as an obviously poor choice and left it at that. But there are members here whose posts I enjoy and whose opinions that I respect who seem to approve of jeans, which has forced me to contemplate the issue somewhat. My interim conclusions are these: they are difficult to alter for length (99% of jeans worn are simply far too long in the leg), they drape appallingly, they are inescapably prole wear and thus unsuitable for tailored jackets, but probably worst of all the back pockets peek out below the hem of a jacket which looks utterly awful. I'm certain that I will be able to think of more reasons to disdain them, given time.


----------



## Topsider

I'm a "jeans snob" only in the sense that if you're going to wear them, they should be Levis. The older, the better. Selvedge is for hipsters.

As for the ol' sportcoat-with-jeans look, I employ it very rarely. I would never consider it the least bit dressy. At the mall, however, it's practically formal wear.


----------



## Shaver

Topsider said:


> I'm a "jeans snob" only in the sense that if you're going to wear them, they should be Levis. The older, the better. Selvedge is for hipsters.
> 
> As for the ol' sportcoat-with-jeans look, I employ it very rarely. I would never consider it the least bit dressy. At the mall, however, it's practically formal wear.


My one pair (yes I actually own a pair of jeans) are indeed Levis. At the rate I'm wearing them they will still be dark indigo when I go to my grave.

Edit: it's good to see that your pair are not pooling at the ankle Topsider.


----------



## Jovan

I would think, as a self professed jean snob, you'd see the value in selvage!


----------



## Topsider

Jovan said:


> I would think, as a self professed jean snob, you'd see the value in selvage!


I was using the term sarcastically. I see no "value" in jeans costing upwards of $100.


----------



## Jovan

Well, good for you that Levi's makes selvage 501s for $98.


----------



## Tilton

I don't personally own any jeans, but if I did, I wouldn't be opposed to selvedge jeans. I also wouldn't be opposed to a small turned up cuff in jeans, either. However, I think that 91% of folks under 40 who turn up their jeans so so only to flaunt the fact that they are selvedge jeans. Personally, I feel that buying them just to show off to everyone else on the metro that you're wearing fancy jeans is ridiculous. If they fit and will outlast other, non-selvedge jeans, it is a good choice. This is the same reason I prefer the heavy Hertling khakis to, say, run-of-the-mill Polo chinos. Fortunately/unfortunately, there is no label and turning up the cuffs will not advertise to the world that I'm wearing pricey chinos.


----------



## Himself

emb1980 said:


> Do you roll up your pant legs when wearing boat shoes (presumably with no socks)? How much if so?


Far enough to clear my bicycle chain. When I get to my destination I roll them back down.


----------



## hardline_42

Himself said:


> Far enough to clear my bicycle chain. When I get to my destination I roll them back down.


Are chain guards not trad? :tongue2:


----------



## Himself

Orgetorix said:


> Honestly, YR, those just look too big for you IMO. You're a fit, slim guy, why not take advantage of it? You don't have to go full on skinny pants; something akin to the Brooks Brothers Clark straight fit would be flattering.


Lands End Tailored are similar to BB Clark, or they were before the rise was shortened. LL Bean Classic are nicely trim too, with a healthy rise.

I've tried 'em all, as I have the same problem!


----------



## Himself

hardline_42 said:


> Are chain guards not trad? :tongue2:


Chain guards are very trad! But my non-trad bike is faster and less tiring for hilly 20mi commutes.


----------



## hardline_42

Himself said:


> Chain guards are very trad! But my non-trad bike is faster and less tiring for hilly 20mi commutes.


Twenty miles each way? I'd probably be in full kit for that (wool bibs and jersey of course, not...*shudder*...spandex).


----------



## Tilton

Himself said:


> Chain guards are very trad! But my non-trad bike is faster and less tiring for hilly 20mi commutes.


Yikes! You're making me feel lazy for taking the bus to work today from Logan Circle to Brookland.


----------



## Himself

OleH said:


> Where to buy good quality tan chinos without creases?
> thanks!


Bills.


----------



## Himself

hardline_42 said:


> Twenty miles each way? I'd probably be in full kit for that (wool bibs and jersey of course, not...*shudder*...spandex).


Indeed, but I use the same bike (and normal clothes) for local trips.

Sometimes I ride in to , don normal clothes, then use the Bikeshare bikes around the city. This solves the secure parking problem too.


----------



## Jovan

OleH said:


> Where to buy good quality tan chinos without creases?
> thanks!


Jack Donnelly. See my link below for a discount.


----------



## Helylle

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster. First off, thanks for being an awesome community, filled with great pictures and posts. Being swedish I'm not used to dressing in the comfortable trad cut - I was raised in an environment that regarded English tailoring preferable. Despite this I recently got my first 3/2 undarted BB blazer from eBay and I have a few questions about it.

I can't figure out how old it is. The label (located in the neck) says Brooks Brothers Golden Fleece, Made in the USA of imported fabric, and then there's a little picture of the dead lamb. It's a navy hopsack with patchpockets and gold buttons. The lapels are a little wider than what's beeing sold RTW these days, but not much. 

Also, it has some shoulderpadding. Should i have them removed for the "proper" look? Will this change the fit making the shoulders too wide? Right now it fits me good.

Thank you again for a great forum. I look forward to adding more trad clothing to my closet - despite not being born into it.


----------



## Jovan

Don't remove any shoulder construction there is. It will not do anything good. Can you post some pictures? This would help a lot.

As for being born into it, do you think most of _us_ went to boarding schools or Ivy League colleges? :icon_smile_big: It's just a clothing style like anything else. There's someone named Per from Sweden who has his own blog and follows the "Trad" style. He carries it off very well, but sadly doesn't post here anymore. I enjoy his looks for the most part.

Personally I'm a fan of both English and American tailoring, though that I prefer the more relaxed English cuts such as Anthony Sinclair or Anderson & Sheppard. Both don't use shoulder padding and have some drape in the chest.


----------



## Helylle

(insert obligatory image quality apology)

Of course the sleeves are too short, but the fabric is there for taking them out.

Thanks for the advice Jovan. Didn't mean to call you all a bunch of preppies; all I'm saying is I'd really enjoy that free shipping from L.L. Bean :tongue2:, as well as visiting a Brooks Brothers store without traveling to London. I follow Per's blog too, great looks!


----------



## Barnavelt

With a spread collar dress shirt; do I need a tie knot that fills the space entirely, like a windsor? Or is the standard four in hand still ok? Does it matter as long as collar button and the "sides" of the tie are not visible?


----------



## arkirshner

Barnavelt said:


> With a spread collar dress shirt; do I need a tie knot that fills the space entirely, like a windsor? Or is the standard four in hand still ok? Does it matter as long as collar button and the "sides" of the tie are not visible?


Spread collar shirts are not really Trad but they certainly are the collar of choice for dressy classical ensembles. The Prince of Wales is generally found in double breasted suits with spread collars and he wears a four in hand. He is an exception in choice of knots, but for decades he has been one of the best dressed men in the world, so there is impeccable precedent. With spread collars the vast majority use a bigger knot, not a full Windsor which is so large as to border on comedy, but a half Windsor or Prince Albert to fill the space.


----------



## Jovan

Helylle said:


> (insert obligatory image quality apology)
> 
> Of course the sleeves are too short, but the fabric is there for taking them out.
> 
> Thanks for the advice Jovan. Didn't mean to call you all a bunch of preppies; all I'm saying is I'd really enjoy that free shipping from L.L. Bean :tongue2:, as well as visiting a Brooks Brothers store without traveling to London. I follow Per's blog too, great looks!


Are you sure there will be enough fabric? The body length looks okay from what I can see.



Barnavelt said:


> With a spread collar dress shirt; do I need a tie knot that fills the space entirely, like a windsor? Or is the standard four in hand still ok? Does it matter as long as collar button and the "sides" of the tie are not visible?


You're not the first one to ask this recently and I am seriously, insanely curious who started this myth and why it's reprinted so much. Most of the best dressed men throughout the last century used a four in hand knot no matter what the collar. At most, use a half-Windsor or doubled four in hand. Stay away from the full Windsor, it only serves to take away attention from one's face.

In short: No, there is no need to fill up all the space. Just worry about getting a good arch in the knot (by tying it parallel to the ground) and covering the collar button. That's standard practice with any shirt collar though.


----------



## Barnavelt

Having just watched "The King's Speech" for the first time last night, I can attest to the fact that if I'd seen it sooner my question would have been answered. Nothing but 4 in hands gloriously askew with every flavor of shirt collar. Excellent movie by the way. As far as why the question came up for me personally, while I am not a big spread collar guy I found a blue and white uni stripe Ben Silver at the GW and was curious what would look good as it is a spread collar.


----------



## Helylle

Jovan said:


> Are you sure there will be enough fabric? The body length looks okay from what I can see.


I'm sure, i took a peek inside the lining. What do you think about the shoulderpadding, does it look okay?


----------



## Jovan

Barnavelt said:


> Having just watched "The King's Speech" for the first time last night, I can attest to the fact that if I'd seen it sooner my question would have been answered. Nothing but 4 in hands gloriously askew with every flavor of shirt collar. Excellent movie by the way. As far as why the question came up for me personally, while I am not a big spread collar guy I found a blue and white uni stripe Ben Silver at the GW and was curious what would look good as it is a spread collar.


I find just about everyone is flattered by a spread collar and four in hand knot, personally. Bespoke shirtmakers may raise or lower the collar band a bit according to one's neck length, height, etc. but I've yet to see a single person who doesn't look stylish in a 4" spread.



Helylle said:


> I'm sure, i took a peek inside the lining. What do you think about the shoulderpadding, does it look okay?


Looks alright to me.


----------



## OleH

Jovan said:


> Jack Donnelly. See my link below for a discount.


thanks
should I size up or down? I usually wear 30"
and is british khaki good?


----------



## mu2482

Hello gentlemen! I've lurked around this site for quite a while and recently joined. I need some help with an eBay purchase I'm now questioning. It's a BB 1818 Houndstooth suit. Just don't know what to do to it. Is this going to really make me stand out? Is it too dated? What do I wear with it? Where do I wear it?! So many questions. Hopefully this photo attaches. Please help! Thanks so much!





I have no trouble with the jacket, just wondering about the full suit. Thanks guys. arkirshner- thanks for the photo help.


----------



## arkirshner

mu2482 said:


> Hello gentlemen! I've lurked around this site for quite a while and recently joined. I need some help with an eBay purchase I'm now questioning. It's a BB 1818 Houndstooth suit. Just don't know what to do to it. Is this going to really make me stand out? Is it too dated? What do I wear with it? Where do I wear it?! So many questions. Hopefully this photo attaches. Please help! Thanks so much!
> 
> Edit: Crap. Apparently my first question should be, "how do I post a photo?"
> The houndstooth is black and white, FYI. Hopefully I can post a photo later. Thanks for being understanding guys.


Welcome to the forum.

Here is the how to post pictures instructions https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...n-t-know-how-to-post-pictures-Quick-look-here!

As an alternative you can link to the BB picture by copying the address in the adress bar and then pasting it in your post.


----------



## Jovan

OleH said:


> thanks
> should I size up or down? I usually wear 30"
> and is british khaki good?


Use your real size. British khaki is just a bit darker than the regular khaki.


----------



## OleH

Jovan said:


> Use your real size. British khaki is just a bit darker than the regular khaki.


thanks, but they are out of 30" (slim fit)


----------



## arkirshner

mu2482 said:


> Hello gentlemen! I've lurked around this site for quite a while and recently joined. I need some help with an eBay purchase I'm now questioning. It's a BB 1818 Houndstooth suit. Just don't know what to do to it. Is this going to really make me stand out? Is it too dated? What do I wear with it? Where do I wear it?! So many questions. Hopefully this photo attaches. Please help! Thanks so much!
> 
> I have no trouble with the jacket, just wondering about the full suit. Thanks guys. arkirshner- thanks for the photo help.


The black, or tan and white houndstooth suit has been a stapel for decades. That BB is not selling it this year on line as a suit is of no pith and moment.

It usually is a warm weather suit made in a light to medium weight fabric. It can be classified as an informal suit, the practical significance is that it is too informal for conducting serious business. (that does not mean that everyone complies with this tradition). As an informal suit it can be worn for any informal event. It formerly was worn in town only when not conducting business or attending a serious event and today this has not changed. What has changed is that today it is worn for business, but not on the days something very important is on the adgenda. Traditionally it in not worn after 6PM.

If you want more comments you should post this in the Fashion Forum or as a new thread in the Trad Forum.

EDIT:
Forgot to say that this black and white pattern averages out to a light to mid grey when viewed from any distance, and as grey is a neutral there are almost an unlimitet number of way to wear it. For ideas you can look at the shirt tie combinations on the light to mid grey sportcoats on the Brooks Bros. site.


----------



## mu2482

Thank you so much! So do I treat it as a gray suit, from a color coordinating standpoint? What about mixing patterns? A thin striped shirt for instance?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

mu2482 said:


> Thank you so much! So do I treat it as a gray suit, from a color coordinating standpoint? What about mixing patterns? A thin striped shirt for instance?


In terms of color, it's gray. See if you can get one of Alan Flusser's books for advice on patterns.

With a pattern like that, I'd wear a shirt with stripes much thinner than the width of the houndstooth, or stripes much wider than the houndstooth -- nothing too similar. I'd be more likely to pair a solid shirt and a wide-striped tie with a plaid suit.


----------



## mu2482

Thanks!


----------



## mhj

There are a pair of army surplus khakis posted that have a 15" rise. The size is 41" x 29" which is perfect for me, my height is 5'9" to 5'10". I'm concerned that the rise is too high for me. Right this minute I have a pair of Jack Donnelly's on which the rise I believe is 12.5" and can't imagine another 2.5"

Am I over thinking this, or do you guys think the surplus khakis will be OK?


----------



## Orgetorix

That's an extraordinarily high rise by modern standards. At your height, with a 41" waist I imagine you have somewhat of a belly. A 15" rise will put them well up over your belly, and unless you're wearing braces and a jacket, that's going to look ridiculous. In my opinion.


----------



## Jovan

Yeah, that's a little too high.

The rise on your JDs may be a little higher than what I said -- from what other members have shared, they size it up and down according to waist. So it may be 12.5" on me, but that's because I wear a 36.


----------



## mhj

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I'll just put the khakis out of my mind.


----------



## mayostard

question: how bad is wearing an orphaned suit jacket? 

I was looking for a cotton odd jacket for summer and took a chance on an ebay listing with poor photos (less than $20 with shipping, what the heck). It's a great jacket, tan Brooks wash-n-wear, union-made in USA, 3/2, patch pockets, but I'm pretty sure it's from a suit. With wool suits this always looks bad but since this is cotton I think I can pull it off. Thoughts? Maybe change the buttons out to something with more contrast?


----------



## Trip English

I can't see too much issue with the cotton jacket in this case, especially if the hardware is addressed. Cotton jackets of this type are sold widely as sport coats.


----------



## CMDC

I agree. I think it's fine. I've done the same thing with the exact same jacket. You may even, if you're a thrifter, come across the pants someday. These BB wash n wear sacks are pretty common. I matched up a jacket that I'd had for a few years as an orphan with the pants from another suit. Was a perfect match.


----------



## rsgordon

I have trouble with colors both in person and in pictures. Does anyone have thoughts on the extra thin Bill's offering called Surfside Poplins? Listed at 3.2 oz.



How does the "Beach Red" look to you? I don't want to fall into the Murrays brand "trap".


----------



## Trip English

They look more "clay" or "persimmon" so I don't think you're going to wind up with something approximating Nantucket Reds. Not that most people will know the difference.


----------



## rsgordon

Then any suggestions or should I plunge for Murray's?


----------



## Trip English

May as well. They're not that expensive. They're an interesting staple to have in the wardrobe. Though I say that living in New England. I've found hostility toward colored pants increases further south despite what southern prep culture tumblrs would have you believe.


----------



## BiffBiffster

Trip English said:


> I've found hostility toward colored pants increases further south despite what southern prep culture tumblrs would have you believe.


Can't say I've seen or experienced said hostility. But I do avoid NASCAR events.


----------



## rsgordon

Perhaps not Tradliness but go to hell culture is alive and well at Georgia Tech


----------



## HerrDavid

Is your average dry cleaner of today still familiar with 3/2 rolled lapels? I have two jackets--one a 3/2 roll and the other a 3 rolled to 2.5--that I need cleaned and I'm worried about each of them coming back pressed as a 3 button.

Is this worry unfounded? Can I assume the cleaners will be knowledgeable enough to eyeball the jackets, recognize the nature of the lapel, and press accordingly? Or should I say something beforehand? If the latter, what would you recommend? (Language barriers could be an issue here.)


----------



## BiffBiffster

HerrDavid said:


> Is your average dry cleaner of today still familiar with 3/2 rolled lapels? I have two jackets--one a 3/2 roll and the other a 3 rolled to 2.5--that I need cleaned and I'm worried about each of them coming back pressed as a 3 button.
> 
> Is this worry unfounded? Can I assume the cleaners will be knowledgeable enough to eyeball the jackets, recognize the nature of the lapel, and press according? Or should I say something beforehand? If the latter, what would you recommend? (Language barriers could be an issue here.)


I would be very clear about what I wanted and I would assume that if I did not do so that the jackets would come back with the lapel pressed above the top button.


----------



## Jovan

Unfortunately most cleaners are crap now. Even if they do follow your directions, your coats might come back with the lapels as sharply creased as a paper airplane.


----------



## Dr. D

I safety pin a piece of paper through the top buttonhole on my sack jackets that says "PLEASE DO NOT PRESS LAPELS" and have been lucky so far. 

If they ignore the request and press it anyways then several short sessions with a steamer will help coax the roll back. But the bigger problem at that point is there may be a mark on the lapel from the button that has been folded under. I don't think that will ever go away.


----------



## Jovan

If you have a proper cleaner who knows how to roll (not squish flat) lapels, they will remove buttons prior to cleaning anyway.


----------



## HerrDavid

Dr. D said:


> I safety pin a piece of paper through the top buttonhole on my sack jackets that says "PLEASE DO NOT PRESS LAPELS" and have been lucky so far.


That sounds like a promising strategy. I think I'll give it a try.


----------



## TDWat

Looking at pictures of Alden LHS in Color #8 shell, the strap, in some cases, appears to be a drastically different shade of burgundy. While I like the shoes overall, I don't like when it becomes glaringly mismatched. 

Question- is this an inevitable byproduct of time/wear/the material, or can it be avoided?


----------



## Tilton

I can't give you a real answer except to say that it isn't just #8. My cigar LHS strap is actually more mismatched looking than my #8 strap. Either way, they are what they are. If you're that bothered by it, then don't buy them. Plenty of other $650 shoes out there. Personally, not only does it not bother me, but I sort of like it.

On the other hand, none of mine are as mismatched as a pair I've seen Orgetorix (I think?) wear.


----------



## Howard

Why do cleaners charge you so much for a cleaning of a leather jacket?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Higher operating/processing costs and greater potential liability!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I have a question about ties that are too long. Please forgive my ignorance and disregard for conventional tailoring wisdom. Can I just remove an inch or however much is making tie too long and then repair the cut? Will this alter the dimensions of the tie too much?


----------



## rsgordon

When I was younger and shorter I used to snip the skinny end when it caused me problems even if I spun my four in hand around twice.


----------



## Topsider

You could always just rock it Sid Mashburn style.


----------



## Trip English

I usually like Sid's kit, but that suit looks like it just came out of the hamper.


----------



## Topsider

Trip English said:


> I usually like Sid's kit, but that suit looks like it just came out of the hamper.


I'm sure it's intentional, like the missing collar stays and deliberately sloppy tie. "Yeah, I slept in this suit. Wouldn't you like to hear the whole story?"


----------



## Trip English

He could actually have the stays in on that collar. Sid's shirts are a little odd. I've found some spreads don't nail the geometry right and the very tip will curl under or bend out despite having a stay in place. Sid's fall into this category.


----------



## AncientMadder

Trip English said:


> He could actually have the stays in on that collar. Sid's shirts are a little odd. I've found some spreads don't nail the geometry right and the very tip will curl under or bend out despite having a stay in place. Sid's fall into this category.


I have a couple of Zegna spread collar shirts that do this. No amount of ironing and no collar stay can get rid of the slight curl at the collar tip.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

oxford cloth button down said:


> I have a question about ties that are too long. Please forgive my ignorance and disregard for conventional tailoring wisdom. Can I just remove an inch or however much is making tie too long and then repair the cut? Will this alter the dimensions of the tie too much?


Any thoughts?


----------



## Topsider

I wouldn't cut my ties, if that's what you're asking.


----------



## AncientMadder

I had a silk knit tie shortened. The tailor cut three inches from near the neck area and then moved the grosgrain strip to cover up the surgery. When I'm wearing the tie, no signs of the alteration are visible. Of course, with a knit tie you don't have the complication of an interlining to deal with.

I once found some altered Ferragamo ties in a thrift shop that the previous owner had cut, added a length of extra silk to, and then repaired. Again, the alteration wasn't visible when the tie was worn.

Why not give it a try with something from a thrift shop, OCBD?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

AncientMadder said:


> I had a silk knit tie shortened. The tailor cut three inches from near the neck area and then moved the grosgrain strip to cover up the surgery. When I'm wearing the tie, no signs of the alteration are visible. Of course, with a knit tie you don't have the complication of an interlining to deal with.
> 
> I once found some altered Ferragamo ties in a thrift shop that the previous owner had cut, added a length of extra silk to, and then repaired. Again, the alteration wasn't visible when the tie was worn.
> 
> Why not give it a try with something from a thrift shop, OCBD?


Ancient Madder, thanks for the reply. Everyone knows that I am going to try it. I just thought that I would be polite and ask first  These ties aren't "long" ties. I am just short.


----------



## dorji

oxford cloth button down said:


> Everyone knows that I am going to try it...


And we look forward to your post on it! I think you will learn a bit about shape, and it will be fun. Maybe stick with 3.25" or less width ties? I am tall, and prefer some ties tied unbalanced (back end short), because this makes the knot smaller. This also enables them to hit where they should for me. I could wear a "long", but oftentimes do not like the look of the knot when doing so. Some makers (Talbott specifically, but there are others) have beautiful materials and designs, but are shaped in such a way that they knot poorly for me, even when doing the "regular" length tied long in front method.

For the record, Seaward & Stearns make beautifully shaped ties. Atkinson's madder ones are a close second. Good luck OCBD!


----------



## cliffc123

Looking for some tips on how to clean up the leather on my Rancourt Pinch Pennies a bit. I've worn them regularly for over a year and they're developing some black spots on the outside edge of the shoe near the ball of the foot. I'm afraid to use saddle soap because I don't want them to lose all character...


----------



## dorji

Interesting... I actually use black shoe cream on my #8 chromexl Rancourt bluchers. I too have noticed this black build-up, and just figured it was the cream.

​I realize that's no help to you. It happens to me in the same spots, actually.


----------



## rsgordon

Quick rant that I will pose in question form, I apologize in advance and don't require any answers that I suppose don't exist:

Why doesn't BB train their staff? Why do the two sales associates and finally manager not know what being sack cut means (and why am I asked when I want to see the tailor to get my sack blazer turned into a not sack blazer)? Why do they not know what three buttons rolled to two means? Why does the sales associate I was stuck with answer the phone "Hi this is _________ from Macy's oops I mean BB"? Who allowed the same guy to open his mouth and try to tell me a suit separate is easily as versatile as a navy blazer? Why do they have such a ridiculous line that I guess is called 1818? Why did this ridiculous line make enough money that J Press has the york street line blinding me in the store? Can't they open separate locations?


----------



## mayostard

rsgordon said:


> Who allowed the same guy to open his mouth and try to tell me a suit separate is easily as versatile as a navy blazer?


Oh I have seen that guy on ebay!


----------



## Barnavelt

I picked up a pair of Alden all weather walkers as part of a trade and they are lovely shoes in all but one respect. The crepe sole on the right shoe is quite a bit softer than the sole on the left, in fact it is downright "gummy" in places such that chunks of mulch and small stones easily become embedded. It would appear that, for obvious reasons, the soles need to be replaced although the wear is minimal; has anyone had their AWW crepe soles replaced? Is there an option other than Alden refurbishing that can replace the sole with a good approximation of the original? I find I am wearing them less because of this and that's a shame for such otherwise nice shoes.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I've gone the Alden route to have my AWWs resoled, but it is my understanding that B. Nelson can resole with the same type of sole. Alden takes too long to complete the job...I don't think recrafting is one of their priorities. B Nelson is well thought of by a good number of AAAC members who have used their services. Good luck in the hunt!


----------



## AncientMadder

.....


----------



## irsky

Hey, I'm 16 and searching for a way to differentiate myself from the litany of douches at the beach by dressing more trad than frat. What you would guys recommend in terms of beachy trad outfits?


----------



## hardline_42

irsky said:


> Hey, I'm 16 and searching for a way to differentiate myself from the litany of douches at the beach by dressing more trad than frat. What you would guys recommend in terms of beachy trad outfits?


- No Wayfarers with Croakies. Try a browline style (RB Clubmaster, Shuron Escapade), pilot style aviator (Randolph Engineering, American Optical) or a better quality Wayfarer alternative (Shuron Freeway or Sidewinder).

- Old, worn, _non-logo'd_ OCBD. Find one at a thrift store and make sure it's 100% cotton or an older blend. Don't wear a non-iron unless you want to sweat.

- Trunks. I'm not sure what the fratty set is wearing these days, but here's a few options:

* Patagonia Baggies
* Birdwell Beach Britches
* J. Press Seersucker

- If boat shoes are too fratty, I'd go with a pair of canvas deck shoes like Sperry CVOs or Vans originals.

- Bucket hat or tennis hat.


----------



## eagle2250

^^I would add that if irsky wants to create a better first impression of himself that he find a better way of referring to others, than by using unarguably crude and potentially offensive references to others! Irsky, please take note.


----------



## hardline_42

eagle2250 said:


> ^^I would add that if irsky wants to create a better first impression of himself that he find a better way of referring to others, than by using unarguably crude and potentially offensive references to others! Irsky, please take note.


Eagle, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and took it to mean the beaches in Georgia are polluted with feminine hygiene products.


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL.
I had not thought of that. Thanks (I think)!


----------



## Topsider

hardline_42 said:


> Eagle, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and took it to mean the beaches in Georgia are polluted with feminine hygiene products.


Looks like they're OK at the moment.


----------



## rsgordon

How many pairs of madras pants are too many? I am not looking for a right answer I just wonder about opinions.


----------



## firedancer

I say 3 is too many. I own 3 times that many and find I usually only wear the same 2.


----------



## OleH

What do you think about Quoddy boat shoes? who makes the best boat shoes? thanks

are they worth the 265usd?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I am a raving fan of Quoddy Trail shoes, with five pair presently on my shoe racks. They are all uber-comfortable and have proven quite durable. One pair of my Quoddy boat shoes has been resoled twice and that seems to be the limit. I had a sixth pair (penny loafers) that I had to dispose of after they were inadvertently showered with battery acid! However, unless you buy a pair of "in-stock" Quoddy's, production times frequently get slipped forward and delivery dates are frustratingly uncertain. Rancourt Shoes boat shoe designs are just as well made (perhaps even slightly better), just as comfortable on the foot, just as durable and the production times are a fraction of those experienced with Quoddy and the delivery times, in my experience, have been an absolute certainty! You have them either before or when they say that you will have then...they have never been delivered late (based on four pair purchased to date)!


----------



## irsky

Haha, I do apologize. That post was made in a state of frustration; I do understand the forum rules ask that we please refrain from such language. But yes, it has proved an epidemic as of late, how many discarded hygiene products seem to litter the GA/FL beaches.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Thanks for the reply and welcome to AAAC. Many of us are looking forward to your future postings!


----------



## AncientMadder

*Elbow Patches on a Navy Blazer*

My favorite jacket-a 3/2 navy blazer in hopsack-is showing significant signs of wear on the elbows. I'm wondering if I can extend its life by adding suede elbow patches. I can't remember ever seeing elbow patches on a navy blazer, though, so thought I'd run it by the forum first:


Patches: yea or nay?
What color? (I'm thinking minimal contrast would be best. Dark brown? Navy?)
Personally, I'm having a hard time envisioning patches on something other than tweed or corduroy. Even if the patches are suboptimal, though, perhaps they could be passable? I am okay with less than perfection.

Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## hardline_42

AncientMadder said:


> My favorite jacket-a 3/2 navy blazer in hopsack-is showing significant signs of wear on the elbows. I'm wondering if I can extend its life by adding suede elbow patches. I can't remember ever seeing elbow patches on a navy blazer, though, so thought I'd run it by the forum first:
> 
> 
> Patches: yea or nay?
> What color? (I'm thinking minimal contrast would be best. Dark brown? Navy?)
> Personally, I'm having a hard time envisioning patches on something other than tweed or corduroy. Even if the patches are suboptimal, though, perhaps they could be passable? I am okay with less than perfection.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.


I, for one, would love to see self-fabric patches on a piece of clothing instead of contrasting colors and materials. My vote is for navy. Extra points if they're wool instead of suede.


----------



## AncientMadder

Interesting idea. Thanks. I wonder if it would look weird, though, for the material to be almost the same but not quite the same as that of the blazer. Sort of an uncanny valley effect maybe. I doubt I could find exactly the right hopsack wool. Hmm, I will have to ponder this.


----------



## hardline_42

AncientMadder said:


> Interesting idea. Thanks. I wonder if it would look weird, though, for the material to be almost the same but not quite the same as that of the blazer. Sort of an uncanny valley effect maybe. I doubt I could find exactly the right hopsack wool. Hmm, I will have to ponder this.


I don't think it would have to be an exact match. Maybe a piece of wool felt instead of hopsack. I just think that a closer matched patch would give it more of a "repaired out of necessity" look, much like a well-loved Barbour jacket, than a contrasting suede patch like the ones that come on many new items as a fashion statement.


----------



## Dcbsale

Has anyone ever heard of Alden 923's? What are they? Cordovan?


----------



## leisureclass

^AM: I think I would lean towards suede patches. If you need patches you need patches, and that's the classic choice, who cares that they were putting them on everything new at Rugby? If possible I would go for a darker brown that doesn't contrast as much, that might tone down the look a little bit, make them less noticeable.


----------



## rsgordon

About the Quoddys, if you are like me and absolutely destroy your boat shoes via their usage then disposable pairs seem to be better suited. I think if you are more responsible about them, or maybe use them more casually, then those would be a great investment.



irsky said:


> Haha, I do apologize. That post was made in a state of frustration; I do understand the forum rules ask that we please refrain from such language. But yes, it has proved an epidemic as of late, how many discarded hygiene products seem to litter the GA/FL beaches.


I grew up in Florida and now I live in Georgia. Just remember that other people can embarrass themselves but they can't embarrass you. It isn't your fault that their girls will be looking at you instead of them. When they are poorly dressed, it is theirs.


----------



## irsky

Thank you for the words of wisdom, truly. I also have another quick question. I just bought a pair of Bass Weejuns on sale at the factory store (is $60 after all's said and done fair?). Anyway, since summer is coming, I was curious in what ways one can wear penny loafers during the hotter months? Obviously the shoes are classic, but not necessarily a huge fan of loafers and shorts. Should I just overcome this reservation, or are there ways around it?


----------



## hardline_42

irsky said:


> Thank you for the words of wisdom, truly. I also have another quick question. I just bought a pair of Bass Weejuns on sale at the factory store (is $60 after all's said and done fair?). Anyway, since summer is coming, I was curious in what ways one can wear penny loafers during the hotter months? Obviously the shoes are classic, but not necessarily a huge fan of loafers and shorts. Should I just overcome this reservation, or are there ways around it?


No socks and beater Weejuns is a good casual look for the summer, shorts or not. I would give the look a try with shorts, first. If you truly don't like it, wear boat shoes or camp mocs instead. But you just might like the look more than you expect.


----------



## Tilton

hardline_42 said:


> - No Wayfarers with Croakies. Try a browline style (RB Clubmaster, Shuron Escapade), pilot style aviator (Randolph Engineering, American Optical) or a better quality Wayfarer alternative (Shuron Freeway or Sidewinder).
> 
> - Old, worn, _non-logo'd_ OCBD. Find one at a thrift store and make sure it's 100% cotton or an older blend. Don't wear a non-iron unless you want to sweat.
> 
> - Trunks. I'm not sure what the fratty set is wearing these days, but here's a few options:
> 
> * Patagonia Baggies
> * Birdwell Beach Britches
> * J. Press Seersucker
> 
> - If boat shoes are too fratty, I'd go with a pair of canvas deck shoes like Sperry CVOs or Vans originals.
> 
> - Bucket hat or tennis hat.


5" Baggies are the epitome of frat. That, and Chubbies.


----------



## hardline_42

Tilton said:


> 5" Baggies are the epitome of frat. That, and Chubbies.


----------



## Jovan

Holy-- we've got bright yellow sunglasses and a full cut short sleeve shirt tucked into tiny elastic waist shorts. The dog represents the 1980s attacking that poor man.


----------



## Tilton

I dressed like that (with untucked shirt) countless times while in college. It is the perfect attire for sitting on the roof of the frat house with a case of light beer and a lip full of Copehagen. I still wear 5" baggies pretty regularly in the summer.

Moving on, can anyone tell me who made these for Polo? Made in the USA.


----------



## rsgordon

irsky said:


> Thank you for the words of wisdom, truly. I also have another quick question. I just bought a pair of Bass Weejuns on sale at the factory store (is $60 after all's said and done fair?). Anyway, since summer is coming, I was curious in what ways one can wear penny loafers during the hotter months? Obviously the shoes are classic, but not necessarily a huge fan of loafers and shorts. Should I just overcome this reservation, or are there ways around it?


I wear, primarily on campus in atlanta and at home in florida, burgundy weejuns and a button down with anything from khaki shorts to thin cottons to baggies (the patagonias are solid but I have some eddie bauer in the same style as well). The city slickers in their black shoes black pants and open neck point collar shirts think it looks funny but the feeling is mutual.


----------



## Svalan

hardline_42 said:


> No socks and beater Weejuns is a good casual look for the summer, shorts or not. I would give the look a try with shorts, first. If you truly don't like it, wear boat shoes or camp mocs instead. But you just might like the look more than you expect.


What is the difference between camp mocs and boat shoes?
Also, what is the story about camp mocs, when did they start wearing them


----------



## Christophe

Svalan said:


> What is the difference between camp mocs and boat shoes? Also, what is the story about camp mocs, when did they start wearing them


Camp Mocs: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kzzLM2wUVXY/SW_UrVuu1vI/AAAAAAAAAUc/j3i72iaxWvY/s400/Bean+camp+mocs.jpg

They have a wraparound lace and just one eyelet, its mainly decorative (i.e. you don't really tighten it.)

Boat Shoes: https://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cd...53/v/vspfiles/photos/0195115-2.jpg?1339102051

The laces go around, but with two eyelets you can tighten them to fit. The sole is also cut with siping, for grip on slick surfaces.

Maybe someone else know of the origins of camp mocs, I've never actually thought of that myself.


----------



## hardline_42

Svalan said:


> What is the difference between camp mocs and boat shoes?


Both are mocassin-constructed, handsewn shoes with 360* lacing. Camp mocs are loafers that have a couple of eyelets over the instep and a "camp sole," a thin rubber sole with no defined heel and a wedge-shaped cutout for stiffness.

Boat shoes are bluchers with two or three pairs of eyelets. They have a "boat sole," with a low, defined heel and razor siping for grip on a slippery boat deck.



Svalan said:


> Also, what is the story about camp mocs, when did they start wearing them


Story is that New Englanders wore them when they went Upta Camp in the summer. They're casual outdoor shoes.


----------



## Svalan

Okay, thanks for the quick answers!


----------



## Barnavelt

I need to resole my Alden AWW and I want the same dark crepe they had originally. A very friendly e-mail exchange with a well regarded cobbler has resulted in a quote of 140 to do the job. Does anyone have a notion of how this ranks price-wise? I am sure the quality of the work would be great but economy always is a consideration.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

AncientMadder said:


> Interesting idea. Thanks. I wonder if it would look weird, though, for the material to be almost the same but not quite the same as that of the blazer. Sort of an uncanny valley effect maybe. I doubt I could find exactly the right hopsack wool. Hmm, I will have to ponder this.


Blue suede. I have an olive tweed jacket with olive suede patches. I like the tone-on-tone aspect.

Also, how many opportunities do you have to work blue suede into your wardrobe?


----------



## TheJohan

Jovan said:


> Don't remove any shoulder construction there is. It will not do anything good. Can you post some pictures? This would help a lot.
> 
> As for being born into it, do you think most of _us_ went to boarding schools or Ivy League colleges? It's just a clothing style like anything else. There's someone named Per from Sweden who has his own blog and follows the "Trad" style. He carries it off very well, but sadly doesn't post here anymore. I enjoy his looks for the most part.
> 
> Personally I'm a fan of both English and American tailoring, though that I prefer the more relaxed English cuts such as Anthony Sinclair or Anderson & Sheppard. Both don't use shoulder padding and have some drape in the chest.


Maybe a bit late but Per got a blog where he post some outfit pictures among other things.
Here's a translated link: https://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://manligheter.se/&sl=sv&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


----------



## Jovan

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Blue suede. I have an olive tweed jacket with olive suede patches. I like the tone-on-tone aspect.
> 
> Also, how many opportunities do you have to work blue suede into your wardrobe?


Just don't ever step on his blue suede patches.


----------



## Eric W S

Barnavelt said:


> I need to resole my Alden AWW and I want the same dark crepe they had originally. A very friendly e-mail exchange with a well regarded cobbler has resulted in a quote of 140 to do the job. Does anyone have a notion of how this ranks price-wise? I am sure the quality of the work would be great but economy always is a consideration.


Expensive. I got a pair of AE loafers re-soled with Redenbach soles for $90 out the door in Chicago. Alden restoration would be the better choice as I don't think you can get their exact soles from someone besides an Alden dealer. Brooks SHoe, whom I used, knows a dealer and orders the soles through them.


----------



## Tilton

Any suggestions on what to wear with pink pants? I've had my share of salmon and nantucket reds, but these are much more of a bright pale pink, if that makes sense. Not planning on wearing a jacket and tie this weekend and I'm afriad white will have too little contrast when not up close - so, blue and... ? Also: shoe color? No suede loafers just yet and my white bucks are still stashed in storage a few hours away from my move last summer.


----------



## hardline_42

Tilton said:


> Any suggestions on what to wear with pink pants? I've had my share of salmon and nantucket reds, but these are much more of a bright pale pink, if that makes sense. Not planning on wearing a jacket and tie this weekend and I'm afriad white will have too little contrast when not up close - so, blue and... ? Also: shoe color? No suede loafers just yet and my white bucks are still stashed in storage a few hours away from my move last summer.


Avoiding white is a good idea. I think a blue unistripe or a blue gingham would look good. Either pattern gives the outfit more contrast than solid blue and keeps it from looking overly pastel. If you want to stick to a similar color palette, a complementary madras shirt would make for a more casual combination (ignore the high-waters and too-light shoes):

For shoes, I think some burgundy or brown loafers are a safe choice.


----------



## rsgordon

Great advice above, but I do think that a blue OCBD would be okay without being too pastel. Maybe not the other solids.


----------



## Billax

hardline_42 said:


> Avoiding white is a good idea. I think a blue unistripe or a blue gingham would look good. Either pattern gives the outfit more contrast than solid blue and keeps it from looking overly pastel. If you want to stick to a similar color palette, a complementary madras shirt would make for a more casual combination (ignore the high-waters and too-light shoes):
> 
> For shoes, I think some burgundy or brown loafers are a safe choice.


 Perspicacious advice from an experienced guy!


----------



## Tilton

I have a blue/white uni strip somewhere (seldom worn). I didn't even think about that. I held up a light blue BB ocbd over them and, while it was definitely a look I would have gone for in college, it was too easter egg looking to me now - a caricature of preppy, I guess.


----------



## rsgordon

Maybe to church on Easter next year then


----------



## DrFaust

*Belt for these shoes?*

Hi all... not sure if this is the right place to post, but here goes!

I just bought a pair of Alden navy blue PTBs (, to be exact), and I'm not sure what the best belt to wear with them is.

I wear mostly casual-ish clothes (academic here -- good jeans and chinos), and I want to make sure I get the belt right.

I don't think a navy belt would be right, nor black. Is tan ok? or should I find some sort of web/canvas belt to pair up with them?

Thanks in advance (from a noob)!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I don't see what would be wrong with getting a navy belt. A surcingle with tan leather tabs would be fine by me, too.


----------



## DrFaust

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I don't see what would be wrong with getting a navy belt. A surcingle with tan leather tabs would be fine by me, too.


Hmm... Navy shoes, jeans, and navy belt seems a bit... blue. Figured something with a little contrast would break it up a little.


----------



## Billax

DrFaust said:


> Hmm... Navy shoes, jeans, and navy belt seems a bit... blue. Figured something with a little contrast would break it up a little.


I suspect Youthful Repp-robate anticipated that you would be wearing Khakis/Chinos with your Navy PTBs, thus providing contrast by separating the blues in the shoes and the Surcingle belt. Given the soles and Welt on your Alden's, his suggestion of tan tabs on the belt is also an excellent suggestion, IMO.


----------



## rsgordon

In State College? A navy surcingle with white down the middle would look great. Or vice versa


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

DrFaust said:


> Hmm... Navy shoes, jeans, and navy belt seems a bit... blue. Figured something with a little contrast would break it up a little.


Billax is right, the navy belt would be best with khakis. I have one pair of blue jeans, and they've faded to a shade lighter than navy, plus I've turned up the ends, so they aren't blue. You do want some contrast.

Navy belt and shoes with khaki trousers would, of course, be pretty great.


----------



## DrFaust

Thanks, gents! 

​(and yes... in State College... for a few more months, anyway)


----------



## DrFaust

Just ordered a navy and a kakhi surcingle... cuz I'm wild and crazy like that. :aportnoy:


----------



## Tilton

I don't think you will get much love for Boss on here, brother. There are tons of taupe sport coats, but you'll have a hard time finding one where the sleeves are longer than the hem (if the google search for Hugo Boss Maldon is accurate). Also, pretty sure that adding a passport pocket and phone pocket to the outside would a) be smart or practical and b) dramatically change the overall appearance of the jacket.



TenleytownDC said:


> To me it doesn't seem it will last the 5 years I'd like this to be near mint?


:confused2:wuh?


----------



## Tilton

If you can go custom for a price that is within reason compared to a jacket you already like (the Boss), why not? Give Louis a call and see what he'll do it for. Of course, there's always Baytok and Field English as well.


----------



## mountain twig

The chest on my jacket is too big. I've got a somewhat prominent chest, it fits to the bottom of my natural chest and then there is excessive material which makes the fabric fold towards the sleeve. It possible for the tailor to reduce the jacket's chest right? Thanks!


----------



## Orgetorix

Yes, it will be reduced at the armhole. It's not an inexpensive alteration because the sleeve has to be taken off, and there's a limit to how much can be taken in, but it can be done. Yours looks pretty doable.


----------



## mountain twig

Orgetorix said:


> Yes, it will be reduced at the armhole. It's not an inexpensive alteration because the sleeve has to be taken off, and there's a limit to how much can be taken in, but it can be done. Yours looks pretty doable.


Great, thanks!


----------



## f-anderson

I'm 50 and have dressed "preppy" my whole life. Except we did not call it prep bc everyone I knew dressed that way. Anyway, I have a pair of Nantucket reds that I can not seem to wear bc of my age. Anyone care to shame into or not wearing them?


----------



## Jovan

At worst, people will accuse you of having a mid-life crisis. At best, they will say you have a unique sense of style. I say go for it.


----------



## Tilton

Jovan said:


> At worst, people will accuse you of having a mid-life crisis. At best, they will say you have a unique sense of style. I say go for it.


At best? Man, I'd say at best nobody would be surprised one bit. In the last couple years before his retirement, my father, 62 at the time, took to wearing a variety of seersucker pieces in a good range of pastel colors to work in the summer. He'd never been particularly preppy or southern-dressing and had never owned seersucker before buying it on sale at LE. To my knowledge, nobody thought he was letting his eccentricies get the better of him.

I think you're good to go. Start with weekends or casual Fridays.


----------



## rsgordon

Just be prepared to give them a nice "if you dont like my pants you can go to hell" with a wink


----------



## Spin Evans

Forgive my ignorance, but can one surgically remove interlining from a collar in order to make it more unruly? Or does that just destroy the construction of the collar?


----------



## rsgordon

This is a good question. I am in the process of moving but I will try this (probably through the bottom of the collar) and take some pictures. If you have any suggestions let me know.


----------



## mountain twig

Orgetorix said:


> Yes, it will be reduced at the armhole. It's not an inexpensive alteration because the sleeve has to be taken off, and there's a limit to how much can be taken in, but it can be done. Yours looks pretty doable.


How much would you estimate this procedure would cost on one side?


----------



## Reldresal

f-anderson said:


> I'm 50 and have dressed "preppy" my whole life. Except we did not call it prep bc everyone I knew dressed that way. Anyway, I have a pair of Nantucket reds that I can not seem to wear bc of my age. Anyone care to shame into or not wearing them?


I'm 40 and dressed the same my whole life, too. Yeah, I hung up the reds before last summer. It's not longer just a "preppy" thing and has become more of a "youth" thing. I'm all for go to hell under some circumstances, but I do not want to look like I am trying to be 25.


----------



## Topsider

If you wear Nantucket Reds, you've pretty much stopped caring what other people think. I know I have.


----------



## firedancer

I've never thought as reds as GTH. I've worn them since high school and it didn't take any balls then either.


----------



## Howard

What kind of sneakers are best for pinched callouses?


----------



## f-anderson

Great advice, thanks. Giving the "reds" a go this weekend and will have a polite GTH ready for any snarky comments. I'm still trying to adapt to living in New York after living in the south for 50 years.


----------



## Reldresal

That explains why you misspelled your location. :biggrin:


----------



## Tilton

mountain twig said:


> How much would you estimate this procedure would cost on one side?


Any sewing scissors worth buying will run you $12+. A good spool of 6/0 thread will run you $2. So, I'd say $14 is a good starting point. Of course, you can go for Krazy Glue, too, but that will run you at least twice as much as the thread.


----------



## mountain twig

Tilton said:


> Any sewing scissors worth buying will run you $12+. A good spool of 6/0 thread will run you $2. So, I'd say $14 is a good starting point. Of course, you can go for Krazy Glue, too, but that will run you at least twice as much as the thread.


Thank you! :biggrin2: But if I'd prefer a professional to handle it so that my jacket won't be ruined, how much would that run me?


----------



## ccsabathia

I'm in the process of buying a charcoal herringbone suit. I want to avoid a herringbone that looks like a self-stripe, though, in favor of one that looks totally solid from a slight distance. Do you think either of these fabrics would work?

https://www.kentwang.com/charcoal-herringbone.htmlhttps://www.kentwang.com/charcoal-herringbone-1.htmlI'm leaning toward the former, as it looks like it's a bit smaller scale and thus more likely to look solid. Any thoughts? Would either of these look "stripey" from a distance?


----------



## f-anderson

Just the response I expected. Y'all never disappoint.


----------



## irsky

Hey fellow tradsters. Due to impending summer, I've begun to roll my pants up on occasion (sockless). Since I'm still in high school, there are the odd remarks about my sexuality and oddity of the look. What is your opinion on rolling pants? Classically ivy or hipster fashion forward? Also, could it be pulled off sockless with Clark's desert boots?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

irsky said:


> Hey fellow tradsters. Due to impending summer, I've begun to roll my pants up on occasion (sockless). Since I'm still in high school, there are the odd remarks about my sexuality and oddity of the look. What is your opinion on rolling pants? Classically ivy or hipster fashion forward? Also, could it be pulled off sockless with Clark's desert boots?


I think rolled-up pants look kind of dumb. Like, yeah, Huck Finn's cool, but do you want to look like him? I'd only do it in the event of an actual flood, or something with water where rolled-up pants would be wise. So, it's definitely cool to end up on the beach, in the surf, with khaki pants on, but it's not cool otherwise. If it gets too hot to wear pants, wear shorts, or lighter-weight pants.

That said, if your classmates are attempting to insult you by speculating about your sexuality, then they're dumber than basically anything you can do with the hem of your pants.

cc: I'd go for the larger-scale one. It's hard to explain, but sometimes a fine herringbone can look like a shiny-self stripe, while a wider herringbone is more subtle. Get swatches -- KW will send them, right? I'm sure it costs a little bit of money, but it's much cheaper than ending up with a suit you don't want.


----------



## Spin Evans

irsky said:


> Hey fellow tradsters. Due to impending summer, I've begun to roll my pants up on occasion (sockless). Since I'm still in high school, there are the odd remarks about my sexuality and oddity of the look. What is your opinion on rolling pants? Classically ivy or hipster fashion forward? Also, could it be pulled off sockless with Clark's desert boots?


I think it's appropriate if your pants are, in fact, too long and start to puddle around your ankles. In this case, they should _only_ be so high as to eliminate the break. If you can see hair on your legs, then you're rolling them too high.

Also, socks can be cool, too. :thumbs-up:


----------



## Tilton

irsky said:


> Hey fellow tradsters. Due to impending summer, I've begun to roll my pants up on occasion (sockless). Since I'm still in high school, there are the odd remarks about my sexuality and oddity of the look. What is your opinion on rolling pants? Classically ivy or hipster fashion forward? Also, could it be pulled off sockless with Clark's desert boots?


Yeah, hipster, not classic Ivy, if this is an everyday look.


----------



## Valkyrie

> _Also, could it be pulled off sockless with Clark's desert boots?_


I don't think that sockless with any kind of boots is very attractive. If you rolled your pants to the right length, and you are wearing boots, then no one would know you are without socks. If you roll them higher than that, you are working toward the Huck Finn look (don't turn your khakis into capris) and boots on the bottom would just look odd.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I've worn little ankle socks with shorts and desert boots for film shoots in the woods in summertime -- too hot for hiking boots, but sneakers wouldn't have been right, and loafers would have been ludicrous.


----------



## MDP

Is there a Trad collar hierarchy (excluding black tie)?

e.g.
1. Button down
2. ???
3. ???
4. ???


----------



## hardline_42

MDP said:


> Is there a Trad collar hierarchy (excluding black tie)?
> 
> e.g.
> 1. Button down
> 2. ???
> 3. ???
> 4. ???


1. Button down
2. Club collar
3. ???
4. Profit

But seriously, OCBDs are pretty high on the list because of their versatility. They can dress down a suit and tie and dress up a pair of khakis. That doesn't mean other types of collars are frowned upon. They just don't get as much wear.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

hardline_42 said:


> 1. Button down
> 2. Club collar
> 3. ???
> 4. Profit
> 
> But seriously, OCBDs are pretty high on the list because of their versatility. They can dress down a suit and tie and dress up a pair of khakis. That doesn't mean other types of collars are frowned upon. They just don't get as much wear.


I'm willing to frown upon cutaway collars, but I don't think I'm alone in my preference for a moderate spread over a plain point (which was more worn in the Ivy heyday). That's with a tie, of course.


----------



## toddorbertBU

Looking for my first OCBD this summer. Need a 37.5 to 38 sleeve. Any suggestions for a solid quality shirt that won't break the bank? I am leaning towards BB but would like to know of other comparable brands I should consider.


----------



## Barnavelt

*Blue Feet*

Last year I bought a pair of blue sebago boat shoes and I have been really pleased with them. One problem though; when I wear them for any length of time, they turn my feet blue. Seriously, the dye soaks into my feet and toenails (!) , giving me that oh-so undesirable "corpse foot" look. Does anyone have an idea for addressing this? I love the shoes otherwise but waiting for it to go away gradually is problematic as I have worn them many many times and it still has persisted. Thanks!


----------



## Tilton

Wear them sockless more often and get them soaking wet more often. My blue Sperrys did the same thing until they had been sufficiently well-worn and no longer bled die.


----------



## Flairball

Should a seersucker jacket only be worn with a solid colored shirt, or can it be worn with a patterned shirt?


----------



## Barnavelt

Speaking for myself, I wear only solid shirts. Blue, white or pink OCBD most often with my blue and white seersucker. If I wanted to add a little more contrast or "oomph" I do it with the tie but I choose the pattern carefully. I have a pink and blue repp that I think looks good.



Flairball said:


> Should a seersucker jacket only be worn with a solid colored shirt, or can it be worn with a patterned shirt?


----------



## L-feld

hardline_42 said:


> 1. Button down
> 2. Club collar
> 3. ???
> 4. Profit
> 
> But seriously, OCBDs are pretty high on the list because of their versatility. They can dress down a suit and tie and dress up a pair of khakis. That doesn't mean other types of collars are frowned upon. They just don't get as much wear.


Well played. I suppose it's true that memes never die.

I would add point collars to the list.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Jovan

What about the tab collar?


----------



## Barnavelt

Jovan said:


> What about the tab collar?


Welcome back to the age of jive.


----------



## Barnavelt

I wasn't sure of where to post this, but I was interested in knowing...

I just sent off today in the US mail my pair of Alden AWW for refurbishing at Alden. I must admit that I had misgivings about dropping my big clunky expensive shoes into the big green plastic bag they supplied and then handing them over to be tussled and tossled all the way to New Hampshire. Anyone else had these misgivings? After it was all said and done I realized I would have felt better just boxing them up instead and paying for the shipping. Oh well nice to know that by December I will have a nice cleaned up pair of AWW.:tongue2:


----------



## Tilton

GAH! Is that the current wait time?! I was thinking of shipping off a pair in the next week or two! Might just opt for B Nelson now.


----------



## L-feld

Barnavelt said:


> Welcome back to the age of jive.


Well played, sir.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Barnavelt

I was actually just trying to be a wit. I have never sent shoes to Alden, but it is my understanding it can take a while. The ppwork I believe quoted 6-8 weeks? For the price at Alden of 159 with shoe trees and bags included, I chose them over Nelson who quoted me slightly less for a re-soling. B Nelson was very responsive and friendly but in this case I chose the original maker instead.



Tilton said:


> GAH! Is that the current wait time?! I was thinking of shipping off a pair in the next week or two! Might just opt for B Nelson now.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Based on first hand experience, you might want to double that (projected) processing time! My next pair of AWW's requiring resoling will go off to B, Nelson for the work to be done.


----------



## Eric W S

Does B. Nelson use Alden soles?


----------



## Jovan

Barnavelt said:


> Welcome back to the age of jive.


Not quite.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sky...icrosoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&safe=active


----------



## Barnavelt

No, I do not believe so. It was mainly my intention to obtain "original factory equipment" that informed my choice.



Eric W S said:


> Does B. Nelson use Alden soles?


----------



## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> Not quite.
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=sky...icrosoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&safe=active












Have a listen:


----------



## Eric W S

Barnavelt said:


> No, I do not believe so. It was mainly my intention to obtain "original factory equipment" that informed my choice.


Damn. Redenbach are nice though. I can vouch they are the best replacement soles. I had a pair of AE loafer redone with them and you should be real happy.

Love the alden plantaion sole though. Must find a way to get them...


----------



## Barnavelt

B Nelson did say they can do plantation crepe FWIW.



Eric W S said:


> Damn. Redenbach are nice though. I can vouch they are the best replacement soles. I had a pair of AE loafer redone with them and you should be real happy.
> 
> Love the alden plantaion sole though. Must find a way to get them...


----------



## eagle2250

^^+1.
You might give B. Nelson a call. It is my understanding that they will resole AWW's with a plantation crepe sole that includes leather toe tips. Not sure of the sourcing for the soles, but it sounds like the same thing (at least appearance wise) as Alden uses.


----------



## knucklehead

*Dress shirts with long tails*

My shirt tails often come un-tucked and I'm looking for a dress shirt with longer tails. LE, BB, LLB aren't working for me. The "big and tall" shops aren't an option because their offerings are too big for my skinny 15.5/16 - 35 frame. (I sure do envy you 40R boys.) I read about "shirt garters" somewhere but would rather not take that route. I've heard that Mercer is a possibility but I'd rather avoid dropping that much dough. Any suggestions?


----------



## hardline_42

^ I'm pretty sure LE sells "talls" in a variety of sizes including 15.5 and 16 x 36. That's a good excuse to wear sleeve garters!


----------



## tuckspub

I saw two suits this week at the SA thrift store, the fabric was very luxurious and one still had tags on both jacket and trousers, the other suit seemed brand new also but had been hemmed. They were in the same identical fabric and were marked Cartier on a black label with white script lettering. Additionally there was a tag with Vitale Barberis Canonico, Fabric made in Italy, Super 110's. Is this a fake, utilizing the name recognition? The one suit with the tags had not been hemmed and all the pockets were still sewn up. I would have instantly dismissed them as fakes if it was not for the detailing and quality of the fabric. Any ideas?? Baffled and bewildered in Dallas. It was half price day at the SA so they were a steal.


----------



## Barnavelt

Knucklehead, I feel your pain. I, too, am a 16 x 35/36. I have a number of LE hyde parks in .16.5x36 tall and they don't come untucked. I pretty much buy from LE whenever I can just because they offer tall, in fact. Too bad the uni stripe they came out with is reg only! BB is also longer tailed in my experience but YMMV. I also have found that the lower the rise in the pants the more untucked issues I have. I would like nothing more than to have a closet full of Mercer custom jobbies but it is not economical right now.


knucklehead said:


> My shirt tails often come un-tucked and I'm looking for a dress shirt with longer tails. LE, BB, LLB aren't working for me. The "big and tall" shops aren't an option because their offerings are too big for my skinny 15.5/16 - 35 frame. (I sure do envy you 40R boys.) I read about "shirt garters" somewhere but would rather not take that route. I've heard that Mercer is a possibility but I'd rather avoid dropping that much dough. Any suggestions?


----------



## Tilton

17x37 here, so I feel your pain and then some (how many 37's you see in the thriftstores? That's right, not many). Big and Tall sections, in my experience mean exactly that: big AND tall; they are not usually big OR tall, and thus not worth looking at. Basically the only two OCBDs I can wear without retucking throughout the day are LE tall and BB regular fit. One trick that I have found keeps my tails in much better is to tuck my undershirt into my boxer shorts. I never did this until my office got some new ergo chairs that you don't slide around in, and that slight bit of grip caused my tails to work themselves out faster. Outside of my desk chair, I don't have this problem. For me, it is usually that shorter sides of the shirt come out at some point. PRL shirts are cut ridiculously short to me.


----------



## Dieu et les Dames

*Shopping without thinking*

I bought these on impulse last night..

Thoughts?

I'd like to do a full resole when they get in.

They are going to replace a pair of tan Cole Haan pennies I wore to death over the past two years.


----------



## LouB

^ Look good to me. I'd like to find a similar pair for my collection.


----------



## knucklehead

Gents - Thanks for the tips and the empathy. I know this a long shot, but I'll ask the question anyway. Do the tall LEs by chance have longer collars to match the longer tails?


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL.

Nice try, but no they do not!


----------



## DrFaust

Hi gents!

I did a search and couldn't find a clear answer to this issue (lots of related posts, but none specific to my question), so here goes.

I'm curious about polo shirt length and tucking. 

I have a few polo shirts which generally fit well through the length and body, but a are a bit too long to leave untucked. I don't want to go the full-tuck route with polos, so I'm wondering what you guys think about the casual front tuck (i.e., if it's acceptable, and how to pull it off)?

Alternately, can anyone recommend some well-fitting polos that aren't too long? I have fairly broad shoulders for my waist size (41-42" chest, 30-31" waist), so usually by the time I find a polo shirt that fits in the chest/shoulders, the body is sometimes big and blousy and the length is almost always too long to leave untucked.

What is an appropriate length for a polo shirt to leave it untucked? I feel comfortable leaving polos untucked when they hit at the bottom of the belt buckle.

thanks!


----------



## Jovan

Either tuck it or don't. No in between.

Most of the "slim fit" polos I see are made short enough to leave out, but I suspect you've already tried those. Unfortunately they also tend to reduce the shoulder width on them. The other alternative is to get MTM polos from somewhere like TailorStore.


----------



## Tilton

Never, I repeat, never front tuck. My rule for tucking/untucking is if it has a drop tail, always tuck, if it doesn't, in some situations it would be a permissable shirt to leave untucked. bottom of the belt buckle is a bit short for me as that usually means if I shrug my shoulders a bit or lift my arm, reach above my head, etc, then a significant portion of undershirt (if you wear one) or skin is exposed. That said, I very seldomly leave a polo shirt untucked. For a more tapered shirt, look at PRL's custom fit. If you have a built chest and shoulders, I don't see any harm in have a shirt a bit tighter up there to show it off.


----------



## hardline_42

^ I'm a believer that any shirt with tails should be tucked. That includes polo shirts. Long ago, polo shirts from Lacoste and the like, had very long tails to keep the shirt tucked in regardless of activity level. That being said, these days, it should be relatively easy to find polo shirts with short bodies and non-existent tails. J. Crew usually has a wide selection of colors and fit pretty close to the body. They also have short, almost-equal-length tails. If you have fit problems and you want a quality, semi-custom shirt, you should checkout Diamond golf shirts. I know L-feld has had very good experiences with them. As for the half-tuck, don't do it.


----------



## DrFaust

hardline_42 said:


> ^ I'm a believer that any shirt with tails should be tucked. That includes polo shirts. Long ago, polo shirts from Lacoste and the like, had very long tails to keep the shirt tucked in regardless of activity level. That being said, these days, it should be relatively easy to find polo shirts with short bodies and non-existent tails. J. Crew usually has a wide selection of colors and fit pretty close to the body. They also have short, almost-equal-length tails. If you have fit problems and you want a quality, semi-custom shirt, you should checkout Diamond golf shirts. I know L-feld has had very good experiences with them. As for the half-tuck, don't do it.


Thanks... Lacoste are prime examples of "once it fits the shoulders, the rest goes to hell". My current polos are all JCrew. Generally I like them, but it looks like they're coming out with a slimmer fitting line of them which I'll have to try. Unfortunately I'm marooned in the middle of nowhere, and the nearest J Crew is 3 hours away. <shrug>


----------



## Jovan

Another alternative I failed to mention is getting alterations. Even in the middle of nowhere, I'd imagine you have a business that does them. Get a polo shirt that fit in the shoulders taken in through the torso.


----------



## DrFaust

Jovan said:


> Another alternative I failed to mention is getting alterations. Even in the middle of nowhere, I'd imagine you have a business that does them. Get a polo shirt that fit in the shoulders taken in through the torso.


Yeah -- there's actually a great tailor here who does really good work at a reasonable price. I've had her slim down sever dress shirts of mine. Can a tailor shorten (not just slim) a polo shirt, do you think?


----------



## Jovan

Should be easy, though I'd indicate you want to keep the side vents if that's important. I had a tailor take in a waistcoat recently and the side vents went away.


----------



## Tilton

I'm just going to leave this here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/20-reasons-you-shouldnt-date-men-who-wear-fedoras


----------



## L-feld

Tilton said:


> I'm just going to leave this here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/20-reasons-you-shouldnt-date-men-who-wear-fedoras


Wow, baseball caps are starting to look pretty good by comparison. I may have to reconsider my position.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## L-feld

DrFaust said:


> Hi gents!
> 
> I did a search and couldn't find a clear answer to this issue (lots of related posts, but none specific to my question), so here goes.
> 
> I'm curious about polo shirt length and tucking.
> 
> I have a few polo shirts which generally fit well through the length and body, but a are a bit too long to leave untucked. I don't want to go the full-tuck route with polos, so I'm wondering what you guys think about the casual front tuck (i.e., if it's acceptable, and how to pull it off)?
> 
> Alternately, can anyone recommend some well-fitting polos that aren't too long? I have fairly broad shoulders for my waist size (41-42" chest, 30-31" waist), so usually by the time I find a polo shirt that fits in the chest/shoulders, the body is sometimes big and blousy and the length is almost always too long to leave untucked.
> 
> What is an appropriate length for a polo shirt to leave it untucked? I feel comfortable leaving polos untucked when they hit at the bottom of the belt buckle.
> 
> thanks!


The mullet tuck is an abomination. You have been warned.

As hardline said, Diamomd Golf Shirts do great work and will make shirts to whatever specifications you want. They run $65 apiece or $50 if you buy 3.

Caveat emptor, they aren't for beginners. You need to know exactly what you're looking for. The best scenario would be if you have a shirt that fits well that you could send to them and have them copy the dimensions.

Barring that, you should call the owner, Dan Cagle, and speak with him. Explain what you want out of the shirt and he will guide you. You may have to send the shirt back to him to make changes, but in the end it will be worth it.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## OJAW

Tilton said:


> I'm just going to leave this here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/20-reasons-you-shouldnt-date-men-who-wear-fedoras


Just when I thought it was safe to re-join the internet.


----------



## MDP

*Help me talk to my tailor*

On a whim I decided to check out the BB Garland, NC outlet. They had only one suit in my size but it was amazing--1818 Fitzgerald fit, mini-herringbone in navy, made in the USA with Saxxon wool. It is the suit I would buy if I had enough money to afford it...and because it was marked down to $90 I did (also picked up a tie and a pair of Milano fit trousers, all for under $150).

This is my first (more than) decent suit so I haven't had one tailored before. I had a couple questions that I would appreciate feedback on:

1) Waist: When I first tried the suit on I thought it was a bit loose in the waist, but now I'm thinking it looks fine. I just don't want to look like I'm wearing a suit I borrowed from my father.

2) Sleeves: The left sleeve needs to be taken up. Buttons are included to add on and I assume to create working button holes. Is there a drawback to creating working button holes?

3) Pants: Obviously they need to be taken up. Like the waist, I initially thought I wanted them to be taken in. The more I look at it though the more I think if I have them hemmed to an almost-no-break length slimming wouldn't be necessary. This is probably where I'm the most undecided.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Nice suit. I'm not a tailor, but here's my two cents:

Don't touch the waist. It looks great. If anything, it's pulling at the button a _tiny_ bit, but I can't be bothered about that as long as the silhouette is right -- which it is. I would actually get both sleeves taken up just a little bit (the left more than the right, obviously). The drawback to working buttonholes: they cost money, and you can't really have the sleeves altered again. I think they're overrated, myself.

I don't like the way the pants hang through the thighs, but if you get them hemmed to a whispering break and have cuffs put on, they'll probably look better. The hem width is right, in terms of proportion. A lot of guys make themselves look top-heavy by wearing very narrow pants with a properly-fitting jacket.

Also, this might be un-Trad of me to say, but a spread-collar shirt would be a nice touch here.


----------



## Anthony Charton

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Nice suit. I'm not a tailor, but here's my two cents:
> 
> Don't touch the waist. It looks great.
> 
> if you get them hemmed to a whispering break and have cuffs put on, they'll probably look better.
> 
> Also, this might be un-Trad of me to say, but a spread-collar shirt would be a nice touch here.


Agreed, agreed, and agreed. Also, this is a fine suit indeed- more proper shoes and something other than a black tie would look nice with it. The loafers feel a little out of place to me.


----------



## MDP

Thanks for the feedback. Is the trad consensus for cuffs? I prefer a more streamlined silhouette but I assume the cuffs help the pants drape better(?). 

The tie is actually navy with very faint and thin white and light brown stripes--not great lighting for the pic.

I grew up watching my dad wear loafers with his suits to work every day so they always seem appropriate to me. I'm just at the beginning of building a wardrobe and haven't actually gotten proper dress shoes (balmorals) yet.

Similar situation with the shirts (the only non-OCBD I have is the shirt in the picture). I think my next shirt purchase will probably be a light blue spread or semi-spread.


----------



## Anthony Charton

MDP said:


> 1. I assume the cuffs help the pants drape better(?).
> 
> 2. The tie is actually navy with very faint and thin white and light brown stripes--not great lighting for the pic.
> 
> 3. I grew up watching my dad wear loafers with his suits to work every day so they always seem appropriate to me. I'm just at the beginning of building a wardrobe and haven't actually gotten proper dress shoes (balmorals) yet.


1. Most probably,

2. My mistake ! Dark tones are hard to read on monitors.

3. Many people here -many of them dashing dressers- wear loafers with suits. I think it's much more of a thing in the US than in the UK, and this is an American website, so I don't have much of a say other than general aesthetic reasons. I find the lack of lacing and the shape of most much too casual for a suit; especially a dark one. But you're talking to someone who would't wear shoes with open lacing with a suit. I find a huge break makes loafers look incredibly worse, since it projects the image of someone who has no idea what dressing means and just put on a pair of 'dress' loafers. (ie whenever I meet with my banker, I strive to keep my eyes away from his break, his square-toe slip-ons, and anything else he's wearing). With a proper break and cuffs if you so wish, loafers will be perfectly fine. (Although a pair of burgundy/ oxblood half-brogues would look delightful to my taste).


----------



## mayostard

fantastic pickup for $90!


----------



## TenleytownDC

I prepared my reply first as I always do and then customize based on provided member feedback. I'm left with. Nice suit, you wear it well. 

Not to be maudlin but it is a bit uplifting how people here watch out for each other: Generous with their time and experience.


----------



## wacolo

+1 to what has been said. And I would agree with YRR about the pants. You could be wearing them a bit low, but if you get the pants hemmed have them look at taking up the seat and crotch a bit. I lack a backside and most of my pants look like that until I have them taken in down there.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

First of all, I'm of the opinion that a BD collar is fine with a suit.

Loafers with a suit -- not moc-toe penny (or tassel, or kiltie) loafers, which are too casual. The only moccasin-style loafers I'd wear with a suit are bit loafers, which are rather louche. Goodyear-welted tassel loafers are an excellent choice, though they are at the casual end of things (white poplin spread collar, satin tie, tassels? Nope. BD collar, repp tie, tassels? Of course). Sleek, welted penny-style loafers are also okay, but not the Alden LHS style that are meant to resemble moccasins (if that makes sense).

Basically (note that these default to black, but would be better in brown, since that way they can cross over from sportcoats to suits):

Solid gold:
https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF169_1_40000000001_-1

Perfectly fine:
https://www.allenedmonds.com/aeonline/producti_SF4809_1_40000000001_-1

Fine in my book, but a stretch for some:

Nope (unless you're in a cotton suit, I'd say, though some might disagree):


----------



## MDP

Thanks all for the replies. I would also like to echo Anthony Charton's sentiments--it's great to have a place that I can ask questions.

I think the odd way the pants are through the thigh is combination of them being too long at the moment and my extreme bow-leggedness. I'll have to fold them up to see if that helps before I see about having them taken in (my wife assures me that I do in fact have a butt).

As for cuffs...never had any of my pants cuffed before. Some of the WAYWT pictures give me hope though. Since I'm 5'9" and slim, would a slightly smaller than average cuff work best (i.e. 1 1/4")?

I'm also sorry to say that I will probably wear loafers with my suit(s).  It just seems so natural to me. Must be my sartorial blind-spot. That said, proper shoes and non-OCBD shirts or next on my list of purchases. 

I have come around to many things since I started reading here (e.g. proper length jacket, medium-full rise, etc) and maybe ditching the penny loafers with suits will happen in time.


----------



## TenleytownDC

I use slightly smaller cuffs but only for casual pants or dress jeans for that rare Friday. Never showing the back fabric mind. and for the casual tans and what not I have the tailor put in either a contrasting light canvas or plaid. You may consider a slightly smaller cuff with a bold checked suit pant - but with a dark material you have here - I'd suggest standard.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Re: 1 1/4" cuffs:

https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2013/04/a-debt-we-owe.html

I have one pair of khakis with 1.5" cuffs, and I wish they were deeper.


----------



## Christophe

I'm 5'8" and slim, and have always worn 1 3/4 inch cuffs on suit pants. No more, no less. Whenever one finds a very tradly suit while thrifting, the pants will almost always have cuffs of that size; it just looks right. Also, I have found that they do indeed help the drape. Go for very little break, and the thigh issue should be fixed. 
As a whole, that is a great suit, and an even better deal!


----------



## Himself

I agree that 1 3/4" looks best but I wind up with 1 1/4" because that's what I get when I order pants w/ cuffs. While it's not optimal it's not terrible either, and I'd rather have the dinky cuffs than none.

Dinky collars are another story!

I keep hoping that with the current preppy trend, one of the mass market brands like Lands End, LL Bean or Brooks Brothers will try to distinguish themselves by getting these details right again.


----------



## MDP

Thanks again everyone--I really appreciate the feedback.

Taking the suit to the tailor tomorrow. Plan on getting the sleeves taken up and pants given 1 1/4" cuffs.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I have a forward point end-on-end shirt with contrasting color and cuffs. I would like to wear this shirt with a collar pin. What are some acceptable combos for this type of shirt? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Jovan

I'm assuming blue body and sleeves with white collar and cuffs? Honestly, I'd just wear anything else you would with a white or blue shirt. Repp stripe ties, grey or blue suits, etc.


----------



## MDP

Shoe question: I currently have a pair of burgundy Weejuns and then an assortment of casual footwear. I'm looking for something more formal. Ideally I'd like something that would go with:
1) A navy suit
2) Medium grey trousers
3) Khakis

What would you recommend? Longwings (black, brown, or burgundy)? Should I jump to a balmoral? Currently in grad school so ideally it would be versatile enough for me to wear with khaki's and an OCBD--unless that is too much a stretch.

Edit:
Second question. There's an AE outlet near me so I know I'm an 8.5C for sure--is eBay for used but well cared for shoes a good option?


----------



## wacolo

MDP said:


> Shoe question: I currently have a pair of burgundy Weejuns and then an assortment of casual footwear. I'm looking for something more formal. Ideally I'd like something that would go with:
> 1) A navy suit
> 2) Medium grey trousers
> 3) Khakis
> 
> What would you recommend? Longwings (black, brown, or burgundy)? Should I jump to a balmoral? Currently in grad school so ideally it would be versatile enough for me to wear with khaki's and an OCBD--unless that is too much a stretch.
> 
> Edit:
> Second question. There's an AE outlet near me so I know I'm an 8.5C for sure--is eBay for used but well cared for shoes a good option?


I would suggest a PTB. Probably in cordovan or dare I say.....brown. I would say ebay is a great option, though in that size your options will be a bit more narrow. Or perhaps a split toe like


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I went for dark brown AE Strands when I was in your (dilemma over a lack of) shoes, since I figured if I was going to own a pair of nice shoes I'd want to be totally secure interviewing in them. I wouldn't wear 'em with just khakis, though -- at least a jacket needs to be in there somewhere.

That said, I wear burg longwings with all those things -- but they're CG. I'd interview in 'em, but they're too beat up. If you were gonna stretch to shell, then burg shell LWB would be perfect. Burg calf, if you can find it? Alright, but I don't like burg calf. This might be sick of me, but burg shell is a thing of beauty, and burg CG is the only acceptable shade of the stuff (black, I guess, but life is too short for cheap black shoes), while burg calf is the least desirable non-weird shade of calf.

C'mon, Wacolo, black PTBs with khakis? Nu-uh. Black PTBs with a suit? Sure. Heck, I really like my burgundy 3-eyelet PTBs (or brown. Brown would be as good), but I wouldn't wear black ones with khakis. Ever. Unless it was a requirement as part of a uniform.


----------



## MDP

Thanks for the responses and thanks to wacalo for that link as the seller had a number of shoes in my size (looked like them came from an estate). Was able to buy a couple of shoes at good prices (black AE Strands, and a pair of brown wingtips by Wright that look to be in almost new condition). There's also a pair of vintage Florsheim long wings that I'll keep an eye on.


----------



## Howard

What shoes are best for the rain? steel-toed or boots?


----------



## HalfLegend

Hey guys. I'm looking for a boat shoes similar to the classic brown in this link https://www.sperrytopsider.com/stor...ail&catdisplayName=Men&showDefaultOption=true

I'm essentially looking for dark brown boat shoes with white or off-white soles that's under $120. I've only really looked at Sperry's and Sebago's because I don't know where else to look. I feel like these are good but I could find better bang for my buck. Also, I'm a bit afraid of not standing out though these seem like safe options. Any suggestions? Thanks guys!

*Also looking for a dark brown belt to match them, under $50. Any suggestions on that?


----------



## hardline_42

HalfLegend said:


> Hey guys. I'm looking for a boat shoes similar to the classic brown in this link https://www.sperrytopsider.com/stor...ail&catdisplayName=Men&showDefaultOption=true
> 
> I'm essentially looking for dark brown boat shoes with white or off-white soles that's under $120. I've only really looked at Sperry's and Sebago's because I don't know where else to look. I feel like these are good but I could find better bang for my buck. Also, I'm a bit afraid of not standing out though these seem like safe options. Any suggestions? Thanks guys!
> 
> *Also looking for a dark brown belt to match them, under $50. Any suggestions on that?


The Sperry A/O is the default boat shoe for most members. Sebagos are slightly better. My recommendation for best value would be the Timberland classic 2-eye boat shoe.

I have had boat shoes from all three makers and the Timberlands are the best of the bunch in that price range. If you want to stretch your budget to around the $200 mark, a lot of new, higher quality options open up.


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL.

The steel toes would protect your forefeet from the destructive impact off big hail stones!


----------



## MDP

HalfLegend said:


> *Also looking for a dark brown belt to match them, under $50. Any suggestions on that?


I have one belt from Narragansett Leathers which I really like. It's simple, well made and a great value. Takes about three weeks for them to make one, but it's custom made to your desired length.

1 1/2" would be a nice match for something casual like boat shoes. With shipping ($6), it would be $51. If it's a hard cap of $50, a 1 1/4" would still work and would come in at $48 (assuming you choose one of the $42 belts).


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> ^^LOL.
> 
> The steel toes would protect your forefeet from the destructive impact off big hail stones!


I've been wearing my steel toed shoes and they gave me small blisters.


----------



## HalfLegend

Thanks for the help guys!


----------



## Spruce

https://i.imgur.com/5BR4Bk6.png
Anybody know where I can get socks like these?


----------



## Howard

Where do you buy rain pants for when the weather gets stormy?


----------



## mrfixit

HalfLegend said:


> Hey guys. I'm looking for a boat shoes similar to the classic brown in this link https://www.sperrytopsider.com/stor...ail&catdisplayName=Men&showDefaultOption=true
> 
> I'm essentially looking for dark brown boat shoes with white or off-white soles that's under $120. I've only really looked at Sperry's and Sebago's because I don't know where else to look. I feel like these are good but I could find better bang for my buck. Also, I'm a bit afraid of not standing out though these seem like safe options. Any suggestions? Thanks guys!
> 
> *Also looking for a dark brown belt to match them, under $50. Any suggestions on that?


i like these
https://shop.ronniefieg.com/products/sebago-docksides-dark-brown


----------



## DerekJames

Has anyone heard of the brand "Oak Tree" and "kuppenheimer"?
If so how is their quality? 

Many thanks, 
Derek


----------



## knucklehead

*Summer navy blazer*

Gents -

I'm in the market for this item and have a few questions.

First, what type of material do you recommend? Wool-blend? Hopsack? Light-weight 100% wool? Other?

Second, does the type/color of button on the jacket matter? Gold, silver, white, navy?

Last, I'm trying to figure out where to buy it. I've had my eye out for a 40L on the thrift exchange for a while but haven't seen anything. Anderson-Little? Hardwick? Another vendor? (BB is probably too pricey for something I'll wear just a few months each year.)

Thanks.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Wool hopsack. Half-lining. Patch pockets of some kind. Gold buttons -- they can be white if you want. I've never seen silver buttons that look good, though the right pair could look cool, I guess. If it has the patch pockets, you can get by with light-to-mid brown horn.


----------



## hardline_42

knucklehead said:


> Gents -
> 
> I'm in the market for this item and have a few questions.
> 
> First, what type of material do you recommend? Wool-blend? Hopsack? Light-weight 100% wool? Other?
> 
> Second, does the type/color of button on the jacket matter? Gold, silver, white, navy?
> 
> Last, I'm trying to figure out where to buy it. I've had my eye out for a 40L on the thrift exchange for a while but haven't seen anything. Anderson-Little? Hardwick? Another vendor? (BB is probably too pricey for something I'll wear just a few months each year.)
> 
> Thanks.


Do you already have other navy blazers in your wardrobe, or would this be the first? If it's your first, I concur with YR-r. A half or quarter lined wool hopsack with gold buttons won't suffocate you in the summer and is appropriate all year round. If you've already got that base covered, I'd look into alternative fabrics like linen, silk, cotton and any blend of those fabrics. Make sure they're not fully-lined and you should feel comfortable even in the heat. For buttons, gold is always a good choice (some prefer silver or pewter) but mother of pearl in varying shades is a nice choice for summer as well as blonde or other lighter colors of horn.


----------



## Tilton

I might be going against the grain here, but I would not recommend a patch pocket blazer if you do not already own a blazer. Patch pockets are great but if you're only going to have one blazer...


----------



## Jovan

I agree with that.


----------



## hardline_42

Tilton said:


> I might be going against the grain here, but I would not recommend a patch pocket blazer if you do not already own a blazer. Patch pockets are great but if you're only going to have one blazer...





Jovan said:


> I agree with that.


What is it about patch pockets that make them unsuitable for an only blazer?


----------



## Tilton

It is just inherently more casual. If you have one blazer that needs to work in all sitations where a blazer is appropriate, you need a bit dressier of a blazer. Of course, your mileage may vary.


----------



## hardline_42

Tilton said:


> It is just inherently more casual. If you have one blazer that needs to work in all sitations where a blazer is appropriate, you need a bit dressier of a blazer. Of course, your mileage may vary.


But a blazer is, itself, inherently casual. IMO, if we're talking about a navy, wool, hopsack, SB blazer with gold gilt buttons in both cases, the pocket arrangement and type is purely a matter of preference. If the occasion is such that patch vs. jetted vs. welt vs. besom is causing the wearer agita, it's probably time to step up to a suit. I would say the same is true for darted vs. sack, hook vent vs. non-hook, lapped seam vs. pick-stitched, 3/2 vs. any other button combination, etc.


----------



## knucklehead

Many thanks to all for the advice. I have a heavier weight (doeskin or flannel?) navy blazer for cooler weather. The year-round hopsack makes practical sense because it will give me 2 to wear in the fall/winter/early spring. Now I need to get on with finding one.


----------



## Tilton

Just leaving this gem in here: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mens-Zota-Unique-G803-10/13880079


----------



## adoucett

Tilton said:


> Just leaving this gem in here: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mens-Zota-Unique-G803-10/13880079


Wow. The reviews are actually hilarious though.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Ancient madder ties: are they strictly a cool weather thing, or do they work year-round? I'm on the fence a little bit. They certainly tend to be in autumnal colors.


----------



## Corcovado

This may or may not be very trad, but... Where can I get made-to-measure fitted baseball caps? (I'm thinking something along the lines of vintage pro baseball cap designs.) I have a _big_ head, specifically big in the crown as well as the circumference, and typically fitted caps that are sold in varying circumferences don't fit me well.


----------



## C. Sharp

These are your sources but you will need to buy allot or round up your friends. https://www.ebbets.com/category/Custom_Orders Also try here https://idealcapco.com/Wholesale.html or here https://shop.americanneedle.com/pages/bespoke


----------



## Tilton

Seen at Baltimore's HonFest:


----------



## C. Sharp

Fall and Winter.



Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Ancient madder ties: are they strictly a cool weather thing, or do they work year-round? I'm on the fence a little bit. They certainly tend to be in autumnal colors.


----------



## Billax

C. Sharp said:


> Fall and Winter.


I agree with C. Sharp. As an additional point, true Madder has a "chalk" hand, which has a feel and lack of reflectance that is appropriate for our cooler seasons.


----------



## Howard

after a rainstorm how do you get the stench from the boots, can I use a fabric softener sheet?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

C. Sharp said:


> Fall and Winter.





Billax said:


> I agree with C. Sharp. As an additional point, true Madder has a "chalk" hand, which has a feel and lack of reflectance that is appropriate for our cooler seasons.


Thank you both -- now that I have the pair of madder ties I picked up in hand, I can say that any doubt in my mind as to their seasonality had as much to do with in-store lighting as anything else. Now, of course, I have an excellent consolation prize for when the weather turns cool.


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> after a rainstorm how do you get the stench from the boots, can I use a fabric softener sheet?


That may serve to temporarily and (IMHO) unsatisfactorily mask the odor, but you really need to do something to eliminate the causes of the 'big stink.' Air them out and allow them to fully dry (using no artificial heat source), dust with baking soda or use several of those balls they sell to absorb the odor from sneakers, insert raw cedar shoe trees...anything to suck out the stink! Spray the insides of the boot with Lysol to kill bacteria for longer lasting relief.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> That may serve to temporarily and (IMHO) unsatisfactorily mask the odor, but you really need to do something to eliminate the causes of the 'big stink.' Air them out and allow them to fully dry (using no artificial heat source), dust with baking soda or use several of those balls they sell to absorb the odor from sneakers, insert raw cedar shoe trees...anything to suck out the stink! Spray the insides of the boot with Lysol to kill bacteria for longer lasting relief.


Yeah but what happens if the weather calls for rain the next day or maybe the whole week? then what happens? I work outside.


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL.
In those instances get yourself a clothespin for your own protection and carry a few ammonia ampules with you to revive those acquaintances/customers who may be overcome by the odor!


----------



## hardline_42

Howard said:


> Yeah but what happens if the weather calls for rain the next day or maybe the whole week? then what happens? I work outside.


You need a boot dryer:

I'm not sure what boots you're wearing now but I'd suggest something impermeable. Even in a Pathmark parking lot in Long Island, a pair of rubber wellies, Bean boots or hikers would be advisable with the amount of rain we've had recently. If you weren't going to be on your feet all day, I'd say just wear a pair of boat shoes and let your feet get wet.


----------



## hardline_42

Question for you fellas:

My young son is having his end of the year show/graduation school function tomorrow. He attends a private school that goes up to 6th grade, and while he's not "graduating" per se, some of the students are and I'd like to show proper respect. It's outdoors in a covered pavilion (parking is pretty far) and the forecast for tomorrow is thunderstorms all day. I plan on wearing an OCBD, tie, blue blazer and khakis. My issue is footwear. I was planning on wearing loafers, either tassel or penny but that won't do with weather conditions and possible trekking through grass and mud. I don't have overshoes and my only other options are Bean boots and wellies. Should I wear, say, a pair of rubber mocs and then change them (I'd have to stash them somewhere), wear the mocs all day or wear loafers through the muck and take it on the chin? Thanks.


----------



## Tilton

If it were me, I'd just wear the bean mocs all day if it actually is raining or recently rained. They'll go fine with what you're wearing within the context of a private school function in the Northeast. Plus, if it is gross out, you'll look practical and no-nonsense. Wellies are way overkill unless it is muddy enough to where the bean mocs will be useless - I have a feeling that if that is the case, the event would be moved indoors anyway. If it is clear when you get there, take you chances with some loafers.

Edit: now that I think about it, if it were me, and I knew it was going to rain but it wasn't wet when I arrived, I'd just wear rubber-soled bluchers and call it a day.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Egads...this is like a moment of Deja-vue. A bit more than a week ago, we attended an almost identical event for two of our grandchildren, who were completing elementary and moving on to middle school. My rig was close to identical with that proposed by hardline 42; navy blazer, a pale blue OCBD (open collar), and khakis, paired with my Rancourt natural hued Chromexcel Beefroll Penny loafers (the ones fitted with the Realtex lactae hevea soles). After the graduation, I chose to wear the loafers all day!


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> ^^LOL.
> In those instances get yourself a clothespin for your own protection and carry a few ammonia ampules with you to revive those acquaintances/customers who may be overcome by the odor!


my boots do stink, I do take them home and I have to wear them on the bus unfortunately.


----------



## Howard

hardline_42 said:


> You need a boot dryer:
> 
> I'm not sure what boots you're wearing now but I'd suggest something impermeable. Even in a Pathmark parking lot in Long Island, a pair of rubber wellies, Bean boots or hikers would be advisable with the amount of rain we've had recently. If you weren't going to be on your feet all day, I'd say just wear a pair of boat shoes and let your feet get wet.


Hardline, I work in a Pathmark in Ozone Park. The rain we've been getting has been unbelievable, we've had 7 inches in 11 days, we don't need anymore.

But anyway I wear Timberlands.


----------



## hardline_42

Tilton said:


> If it were me, I'd just wear the bean mocs all day if it actually is raining or recently rained. They'll go fine with what you're wearing within the context of a private school function in the Northeast. Plus, if it is gross out, you'll look practical and no-nonsense. Wellies are way overkill unless it is muddy enough to where the bean mocs will be useless - I have a feeling that if that is the case, the event would be moved indoors anyway. If it is clear when you get there, take you chances with some loafers.
> 
> Edit: now that I think about it, if it were me, and I knew it was going to rain but it wasn't wet when I arrived, I'd just wear rubber-soled bluchers and call it a day.





eagle2250 said:


> ^^Egads...this is like a moment of Deja-vue. A bit more than a week ago, we attended an almost identical event for two of our grandchildren, who were completing elementary and moving on to middle school. My rig was close to identical with that proposed by hardline 42; navy blazer, a pale blue OCBD (open collar), and khakis, paired with my Rancourt natural hued Chromexcel Beefroll Penny loafers (the ones fitted with the Realtex lactae hevea soles). After the graduation, I chose to wear the loafers all day!


In the end, the ceremony ended up moving to the school gymnasium thanks to high winds and pouring rain. I wore my AE Cameron loafers, navy blazer khakis, blue BB OCBD and an A&S repp bow. I was seated next to a father wearing a backwards baseball cap, earring, five o'clock shadow, t-shirt, jeans and white flip-flops. At opposite ends of the formal/casual continuum, we made quite the pair.


----------



## mayostard

Does anyone have a good source for ribbon/fabric belts for the larger gentlemen? I generally wear a 46" belt (buckle to middle hole) so for a d-ring belt I need something 54-56" or so. Most of the D-ring belts I see max out at like 44".

thanks


----------



## Valkyrie

The Leatherman, Ltd, D ring belts, at least the surcingle ones, are 56" inches long in size XXL, designed for 46-48 waists. Sounds like just the ticket. They also have some D ring motif belts as well. Pretty good selection. No striped silk ribbon that I could see however. 



Don't ask me why I know.


----------



## mayostard

Valkyrie said:


> The Leatherman, Ltd, D ring belts, at least the surcingle ones, are 56" inches long in size XXL, designed for 46-48 waists. Sounds like just the ticket. They also have some D ring motif belts as well. Pretty good selection. No striped silk ribbon that I could see however.
> 
> Don't ask me why I know.


thanks, that's a good link, nice stuff.

Offhand, how hard would it be to take a (eg) repp stripe tie and turn it into a belt? Seems like it would just take a few cuts, stitch over the seams a bit, sew in the d-rings, and voila, or am I missing something?

as far as I can tell, that's exactly what this j. crew belt is, the end is even tipped like a tie.


----------



## hardline_42

mayostard said:


> thanks, that's a good link, nice stuff.
> 
> Offhand, how hard would it be to take a (eg) repp stripe tie and turn it into a belt? Seems like it would just take a few cuts, stitch over the seams a bit, sew in the d-rings, and voila, or am I missing something?
> 
> as far as I can tell, that's exactly what this j. crew belt is, the end is even tipped like a tie.


I think you would want a much heavier interlining than what comes in a tie. Ties are only designed to hold themselves up and keep their shape. If you want it to hold up your pants, it needs to be a little beefier. Otherwise, it seems like it would be fairly straightforward.


----------



## mayostard

hardline_42 said:


> I think you would want a much heavier interlining than what comes in a tie. Ties are only designed to hold themselves up and keep their shape. If you want it to hold up your pants, it needs to be a little beefier. Otherwise, it seems like it would be fairly straightforward.


Maybe take something like this and sew the tie around it?


----------



## hardline_42

mayostard said:


> Maybe take something like this and sew the tie around it?


That's a bit thick to function as interlining, unless you wanted to sew it to the face. You an just use fusible belt interlining and iron the tie on/around it:


----------



## LoneSuitinDTW

For anyone watching Wimbledon. Any idea where to buy the striped ties that the umpires are wearing? I'm guessing they are Ralph Lauren but aren't for sale on the Wimbledon website.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

mayostard said:


> thanks, that's a good link, nice stuff.
> 
> Offhand, how hard would it be to take a (eg) repp stripe tie and turn it into a belt? Seems like it would just take a few cuts, stitch over the seams a bit, sew in the d-rings, and voila, or am I missing something?
> 
> as far as I can tell, that's exactly what this j. crew belt is, the end is even tipped like a tie.


I have one of those. It's not really constructed like a tie at all. Mine is two continuous pieces (each side) of silk, stitched together along the sides. There's not a continuous length of silk like that in a tie -- they're pieced together. I mean, the longest continuous piece is about 30" -- the front. Maybe if you had a seven-fold tie, you could do it.


----------



## Barnavelt

My in laws visited the UK and brought back to me as a gift a lovely maroon bow tie with cream churchill dots. Drawback; it's a pre-tied and of course looks like it with perfect symmetry, tiny knot, etc. It's silk, made in England, and of course I would never be so rude as to be anything but appreciative, but I come here to ask; is it ever acceptable to wear such a tie?


----------



## Howard

What color shirt is ok to wear during the summer that reflects the hot sun?


----------



## ytc

white


----------



## Jovan

Barnavelt said:


> My in laws visited the UK and brought back to me as a gift a lovely maroon bow tie with cream churchill dots. Drawback; it's a pre-tied and of course looks like it with perfect symmetry, tiny knot, etc. It's silk, made in England, and of course I would never be so rude as to be anything but appreciative, but I come here to ask; is it ever acceptable to wear such a tie?


Best suggestion is to "mess" with it a bit so it looks imperfect.


----------



## randomdude

I can't decide how I feel about this brightly colored BB duffle bag. Awesome or not awesome - what say you?


----------



## Colonel Ichabod

Looks alright to me. I would prefer blue and red, but that's just my preferences.


----------



## eagle2250

^^+1.
I, as well, would have no qualms about using that duffle bag.


----------



## hardline_42

randomdude said:


> I can't decide how I feel about this brightly colored BB duffle bag. Awesome or not awesome - what say you?


It's nice, but ungodly expensive for imported canvas.


----------



## Howard

I like the duffel bag but the color seems a bit too bright IMO.


----------



## MDP

hardline_42 said:


> It's nice, but ungodly expensive for imported canvas.


This, plus the "distressed leather trim" would make me hesitant to buy it. I do like the coloring though.

You can get a made in the for slightly less money.


----------



## MDP

Is a soft collar (non-button-down) less formal than a hard-fused collar?

Examples:


















I quite like the look, and was thinking of contacting Ratio to see if they could do a pinpoint in a similar collar. However, on a limited wardrobe, I need the shirt to fill a fairly formal role (dark suit, interviews, etc) and I'm worried it reads as too casual.


----------



## McBaine

My father recently gave me a great pale green OCBDthat he can't wear anymore, however, it's short sleeve. What are your thoughts? I normally reserve short sleeves for Madras and polo shirts.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
It's a sport shirt...wear it, enjoy it!


----------



## Jovan

MDP said:


> Is a soft collar (non-button-down) less formal than a hard-fused collar?
> 
> Examples:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I quite like the look, and was thinking of contacting Ratio to see if they could do a pinpoint in a similar collar. However, on a limited wardrobe, I need the shirt to fill a fairly formal role (dark suit, interviews, etc) and I'm worried it reads as too casual.


As long as you iron the collar and use stays, it will look fine. All shirt collars were soft at one point.


----------



## irsky

Hey Fellow Tradsters,
I've posted on here a few times before to much success. A quick thank you for that! Now, my conundrum. The other day I picked up two BB Irish linen short sleeve sport shirts on the super cheap. My question is, due to my youth (a junior in high school), will it seem a bit too contrived? I like the fit, but when I tried them on with some chinos, I just could not get the image of Don Draper with a straw hat on out of my head. So, my friends, is this some sort of sartorial paranoia, or is truly a bit more mature? Since I dropped the cash, I'll be wearing them regardless, but would like your opinion. And perhaps some styling advice.
Thanks,
Alex


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Alex: Relax! As you suggest, you may be suffering through a mild bout of "sartorial paranoia," but it will pass. BB's Irish Linen shirts wear wonderfully cool during the hot summer months and they are an incredibly fine look to sport about. For your age group, they go well with chinos as well as with denim. Wear them with confidence and enjoy them.


----------



## MDP

If the shirts aren't too long, perhaps you could try wearing them untucked (I always caught flack for tucking in my button-front shirts in high school).

Otherwise, wear what you like (I wish I had done more of that)--assuming you _like_ the image of Don Draper in a straw hat.

I think for something to look contrived, it must involve more than just the fabric of the shirt. Keep it simple if you're worried (i.e. limit the GTH items).


----------



## Jovan

Trim fitting chinos, minimalist sneakers, a cool ribbon belt, and some interesting socks that coordinate (not necessarily match the belt but pick up a colour or two) will help ease off the old man associations. You are young, full of energy, and wearing what you damn please. Show it.


----------



## Tilton

You'll be fine, just wear them a few times and the thought will be pushed out of your mind. One of my high school standard summer uniforms was a pair of off-white PRL elastic waistband chino shorts, old canvas Vans deck shoes, and an untucked short sleeve linen or madras shirts. Yeah, I was dressed like a lot of Florida snowbird retirees, but a lot of the preppy girls liked the look. Now, when I dress like that in DC, I'm one fedora (or beard, or P3 glasses, or tattoo) short of looking like every wannabe hipster in the neighborhood and no one thinks "old man."


----------



## irsky

Thank you for the advice! I actually wore one out today and the shirt got me some positive looks. It's not necessarily a slim cut, but it doesn't hang off of me either. I'm thinking off pairing them with some tri-color Bass boat shoes I recently purchased. (By the way, anyone near a Bass outlet store, they're currently having a buy one, get two pairs of shoes free. No joke. If you're in need of some drivers or new deck shoes, I would seriously consider it).


----------



## Barnavelt

For those who have experience with the originals; which Rancourt style, color, leather, and sole most closely mimic the traditional old school USA made Weejun?


----------



## Kreiger

^^^

I've been through the experience of trying to remake a weejun via Rancourt (actually, wore the shoes today). They can do a leather-sole penny loafer with what they call a "stichdown strap." That is to say, like the strap on weejuns, it is cut short (does not go all the way to the sole), but has no beefroll or handsewing (as is the case with a pinch penny design). The big difference is leather. Perhaps long, long ago weejuns were made with full-grain leather, but every one I have seen (yes, even the made in US ones) was made of, for lack of a better term, "penny loafer leather"- that burgundy corrected grain stuff we all know and love. To my knowledge, Rancourt does not offer any kind of leather like this. I had mine made of no. 8 CXL, which is very comfortable, but you could also have them made with the brown mimosa calfskin, which would be a little more dressy. The other difference is the shape of the penny cutout- weejuns have that half-moon shape. The Rancourt cutout is more, uh...pointed? at the bottom. I did not, however, think to ask if there was an option to change the shape of the cutout.

So, I think you can get pretty close, but not exact. On the other hand, the Rancourts will feature full-grain leather and are a 'higher-end' shoe.

My advice, honestly, is to email Rancourt and talk to them about what you are interested in doing. I have always found them very helpful, and they, of course, know better than anyone what they can/can't do.


----------



## Barnavelt

^So weejuns had a leather sole? Why did I think rubber? Did any loafers of that type have hard rubber soles?


----------



## mhj

Barnavelt said:


> For those who have experience with the originals; which Rancourt style, color, leather, and sole most closely mimic the traditional old school USA made Weejun?


As someone who grow up in the heyday of penny loafers, penny loafers were an inexpensive shoe worn primarily by students. They were either brown or black (which were worn with white Levi's, at least in my high school). I don't recall seeing beef rolls, always strap and always leather sole. Even though I now own two pair of AE penny loafers I don't think that high end models are in the spirit of the original.


----------



## Kreiger

Barnavelt said:


> ^So weejuns had a leather sole? Why did I think rubber? Did any loafers of that type have hard rubber soles?


I had a pair of dexter usa loafers that had a hard rubber sole. I got rid of them because I found it to be too slippery, far worse than a leather sole.


----------



## Corcovado

I actually came to this thread to ask if anyone can recommend a good penny loafer with a comfortable rubber sole. I would love to wear a pair of Alden LHS with leather sole but I have to do a lot of walking on hard surfaces and my feet can't tolerate wearing leather soled shoes to work, at least not very often. The ideal shoe would look just like an Alden Leisure Handsewn, or at least as close as possible. There are some rubber soled loafers out there such as the AE "Duke" loafer with football grain leather, which looks like a nice casual shoe on its own merits but isn't what I am looking for. Short of commissioning a LHS with "commando sole" from an Alden dealer, can anyone recommend anything?


----------



## CMDC

Not sure if the leather is exactly what you want but the Alden beef roll w/vibram sole might work...


----------



## Jovan

mhj said:


> As someone who grow up in the heyday of penny loafers, penny loafers were an inexpensive shoe worn primarily by students. They were either brown or black (which were worn with white Levi's, at least in my high school). I don't recall seeing beef rolls, always strap and always leather sole. Even though I now own two pair of AE penny loafers I don't think that high end models are in the spirit of the original.


Just because something has lower class origins doesn't mean you should eschew things that improve upon it. For instance, countless people have improved upon Kraft Macaroni & Cheese in home recipes by using real blocks of cheese and adding bread crumbs. Same concept, higher grade materials.

What do you think of Rancourt's Vintage Venetian?


----------



## MDP

Barbour Beaufort + biking?

Anyone had experiencing biking in a Beaufort? Not for long rides obviously. I have a short commute to school and usually ride my bike. Since the Bedale is made for riding (horses) it seems like an obvious fit, but I prefer the look of the longer Beaufort.

Edit: I should note that I'm 5'9".


----------



## Corcovado

CMDC said:


> Not sure if the leather is exactly what you want but the Alden beef roll w/vibram sole might work...


Looks great. Many thanks!


----------



## Tilton

I've done it plenty and never had a problem, but I'm 6'2 and a Beaufort is generally an inch or two shorter on me than most of my sport and suit coats. Try putting on a sport coat and getting on your bike. Does it get in the way of the back tire? If not, you're probably fine. Fenders?


----------



## hardline_42

MDP said:


> Barbour Beaufort + biking?
> 
> Anyone had experiencing biking in a Beaufort? Not for long rides obviously. I have a short commute to school and usually ride my bike. Since the Bedale is made for riding (horses) it seems like an obvious fit, but I prefer the look of the longer Beaufort.
> 
> Edit: I should note that I'm 5'9".


What kind of bike? If you're worried about getting it caught in spokes or resting on the rear tire, I don't think it's long enough for that at all. Plus, any commuter bike should have fenders. If you think the longer length might restrict movement, the zipper is adjustable from both ends so you can free up your lower body if necessary.


----------



## MDP

Tilton said:


> I've done it plenty and never had a problem, but I'm 6'2 and a Beaufort is generally an inch or two shorter on me than most of my sport and suit coats. Try putting on a sport coat and getting on your bike. Does it get in the way of the back tire? If not, you're probably fine. Fenders?


A Beaufort in my size is going to be three inches longer than my sport coats.

I think I have an old ski jacket that may be a similar length to a Beaufort, I'll have to try that. Thanks for the idea.



hardline_42 said:


> What kind of bike? If you're worried about getting it caught in spokes or resting on the rear tire, I don't think it's long enough for that at all. Plus, any commuter bike should have fenders. If you think the longer length might restrict movement, the zipper is adjustable from both ends so you can free up your lower body if necessary.


It's an old Peugeot road bike I'm in the process of converting to commuter-ish (rack, fenders, etc.).

Good to know about the zipper, that was my main concern--leg movement.


----------



## Tilton

Do you wear your coats in a modern, stylish length, or a traditional cupped-hands length?


----------



## hardline_42

This is what a standard-length suit jacket looks like on a bike. Even at three inches longer, you'll be fine.

If you're still concerned, you can add a coat guard, like the bike in the foreground of this pic:


----------



## MDP

Tilton said:


> Do you wear your coats in a modern, stylish length, or a traditional cupped-hands length?


Traditional


----------



## Tilton

Unless your bike is way too big for you, I don't think you'll see any issues. I always just buttoned the two middle snaps when I was riding with my Beaufort on.


----------



## Homebody

Sorry to bother you all with such a basic topic, but I need to start wearing buttondowns and I could use some advice.

A while ago, I went to a BB Factory store (sparing myself the drive to an actual BB) to try on some dress shirts and find out my size. Apparently I have a 30 sleeve, but the shortest BB carries is 32. The closest I can get to a good fit OTR at Brooks is 16 32 extra slim, which I would then have altered (2" off the sleeves and taken in).

I've read that buying shirts from BB on sale is a good value, but I'm not sure what the final cost, including alterations, would be.

*EDIT*: I spoke with my nearest BB over the phone and was told that shortening the sleeves and taking in the body would cost $36 per shirt.

Do you think I can do better?


----------



## firedancer

Homebody said:


> *EDIT*: I spoke with my nearest BB over the phone and was told that shortening the sleeves and taking in the body would cost $36 per shirt.
> 
> Do you think I can do better?


Yep, 
A competent tailor should be able to shorten sleeves for sub $20. 
The keyword here is competent. I would like to leave the trademark shirring at the cuff in place, so it may require a tad more skill than the typical shirt. 
That said, I've never had to have it done.

As an aside, I thought brooks had a MTO program for shirts that may be a better price in the long run.


----------



## Homebody

firedancer said:


> Yep,
> A competent tailor should be able to shorten sleeves for sub $20.
> The keyword here is competent. I would like to leave the trademark shirring at the cuff in place, so it may require a tad more skill than the typical shirt.
> That said, I've never had to have it done.


I should have clarified that I was quoted $18 for sleeves and $18 for the body. $36 total.

But the woman on the phone told me that the main line is cut differently than the outlet fits, so maybe the extra slim won't be as generous in the middle as the extra slim factory shirt I sampled. That one was pretty billowy though, so it would need to be a drastic difference. Still, I've begun to hope that it's only the sleeves that will need altering.

The in-store tailor at my BB should be able to shorten the sleeves properly, right?

Will be going to the real location for the first time in the near future to confirm my size. Then I'll wait for a sale, unless there's a better option.



> As an aside, I thought brooks had a MTO program for shirts that may be a better price in the long run.


Thanks. I'll be sure to ask about this while I'm there.


----------



## MDP

Ratio Clothing might be worth looking into. I have a handful of shirts from them (all OCBDs) and have been very happy with them. They can do down to a 30" sleeve length (possibly shorter if you email them). They also base the body of the shirt on your chest size, not the neck size, and they have a bunch of different customization options.

Prices for basic dress shirts in pinpoint start at $90 which will be close to what you get from BB + alterations (assuming full-retail). From what I understand they're also made in the same factory BB uses for their American made shirts.

If you're looking for OCBDs and are a trad purist, the collars will be a bit small (3" instead of 3 1/4") but other than that they might be what you're looking for.


----------



## jimw

I picked up a plush pair of plain-front, wool flannel pants the other day, and am wondering about cuffs. Are cuffs acceptable on all dress pants? Should these break any differently than uncuffed trousers?

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## Jovan

MDP said:


> Ratio Clothing might be worth looking into. I have a handful of shirts from them (all OCBDs) and have been very happy with them. They can do down to a 30" sleeve length (possibly shorter if you email them). They also base the body of the shirt on your chest size, not the neck size, and they have a bunch of different customization options.
> 
> Prices for basic dress shirts in pinpoint start at $90 which will be close to what you get from BB + alterations (assuming full-retail). From what I understand they're also made in the same factory BB uses for their American made shirts.
> 
> If you're looking for OCBDs and are a trad purist, the collars will be a bit small (3" instead of 3 1/4") but other than that they might be what you're looking for.


Actually they're $98 now, but still a good deal. I heard they were working on a longer, full roll collar. Proper Cloth already has that now, so I have to assume Ratio Clothing is not far behind in trying to cater to more classic tastes.

Ratio can also do a number of "secret" style options (just email them for details) and there's the option of making a shirt to the dimensions of your best fitting one.


----------



## sergeant_81

Hello all. First post here. Have quite a few questions but decided to stick to this thread and ask them one at a time.

I'm re-tooling my entire wardrobe after recognizing it's a darted, hard-shoulder, low-rise, slim-fit mess.

The dress trousers I picked up long before I stumbled upon Trad are low-rise, slash-pocket, ball-crushing nightmares. They're also falling apart and I'd like to replace them with a couple pairs of proper trousers for office work - longer rise, seam pocket, dark-and-medium gray wool. I'm not sure what to go with for general work-a-day fabric - gabardine, worsted, flannel? I live in New England for what that's worth.

I'm within driving distance of the Cambridge J. Press, and the two BB locations in Boston (although I read that the trousers at BB are trending low-rise now). Any recommendations for a new guy?


----------



## hardline_42

jimw said:


> I picked up a plush pair of plain-front, wool flannel pants the other day, and am wondering about cuffs. Are cuffs acceptable on all dress pants? Should these break any differently than uncuffed trousers?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim


Cuffs are acceptable and even preferable on trousers. They weigh down the fabric of the pant legs, keeping the crease nice and crisp and preventing excessive wrinkling and bunching. Break is a personal preference but I think minimal to no break looks best and allows the cuffs to perform their function. If the cuffs are resting on your shoes as they would with a full break, they can't weigh down the fabric and the pant legs could bunch up against your socks etc.


----------



## PG63

sergeant_81 said:


> Hello all. First post here. Have quite a few questions but decided to stick to this thread and ask them one at a time.
> 
> I'm re-tooling my entire wardrobe after recognizing it's a darted, hard-shoulder, low-rise, slim-fit mess.
> 
> The dress trousers I picked up long before I stumbled upon Trad are low-rise, slash-pocket, ball-crushing nightmares. They're also falling apart and I'd like to replace them with a couple pairs of proper trousers for office work - longer rise, seam pocket, dark-and-medium gray wool. I'm not sure what to go with for general work-a-day fabric - gabardine, worsted, flannel? I live in New England for what that's worth.
> 
> I'm within driving distance of the Cambridge J. Press, and the two BB locations in Boston (although I read that the trousers at BB are trending low-rise now). Any recommendations for a new guy?


Try J. Press. I got a nice pair of tropical wool gray trousers in a long rise, made in the USA, at the New York store about a year and a half ago. A lower-priced option is Jos. A. Bank; Bank has a good selection of dress trousers in long rise, although not made in the USA (hence the lower prices); good website, with stores in the Boston area.


----------



## sergeant_81

PG63 said:


> Try J. Press. I got a nice pair of tropical wool gray trousers in a long rise, made in the USA, at the New York store about a year and a half ago. A lower-priced option is Jos. A. Bank; Bank has a good selection of dress trousers in long rise, although not made in the USA (hence the lower prices); good website, with stores in the Boston area.


Thank you, PG63. I'll drop by J. Press - I've read enough about Bank to stay away, and I recall buying a few shirts from them that were not to my liking.

Speaking of shirts, are BB OCBDs still the standard? The 3 for $225 (non-iron Supima cotton) seems like a good deal, but my pricing/value knowledge is limited in these matters.


----------



## PorterF

[First Post!]

I have a question about a pair of shell long-wings I just picked up. They are branded Hanig's but I am not sure if they were made by Alden. Anyone know if there is good way to tell?

item number 200954548825.

I will try to research the serial number when I get them in my hands.

Kind Regards,

Porter


----------



## CMDC

Regardless of maker, that is a fantastic find. Pays to hunt for the unmarked shells. Welcome to the forum.


----------



## Eric W S

PorterF said:


> [First Post!]
> 
> I have a question about a pair of shell long-wings I just picked up. They are branded Hanig's but I am not sure if they were made by Alden. Anyone know if there is good way to tell?
> 
> item number 200954548825.
> 
> I will try to research the serial number when I get them in my hands.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> 
> Porter


If Hanig refers to the Chicago shoe retailler, I doubt they were made by Alden. Hanig only sells very limited styles of Alden and only in one store, the one in the Hancock building. Google and call - maybe they can tell you.


----------



## ColonialBoy

Where can I find blue university stripe shirts, large size 3xb.


----------



## jimw

I'm considering pulling the trigger on this 2nd hand Samuelsohn blazer - its my size, and seems a good value; two questions, though: is it likely to have heavily padded shoulders and is it likely to be more American or European in its cut. I'd love to have a 3/2 roll blazer one day, but for now this seems like a good buy on a quality blazer. Thanks for your help - Jim


----------



## PG63

sergeant_81 said:


> Thank you, PG63. I'll drop by J. Press - I've read enough about Bank to stay away, and I recall buying a few shirts from them that were not to my liking.
> 
> Speaking of shirts, are BB OCBDs still the standard? The 3 for $225 (non-iron Supima cotton) seems like a good deal, but my pricing/value knowledge is limited in these matters.


If you want to stick with BB ready-made, this is the one you want:

You do NOT want a "non-iron" shirt; many people have observed that the treatment used to reduce wrinkling makes a non-iron shirt less comfortable to wear.

If you want an OCBD that is probably the closest to old-school version that Brooks Brothers was best known for -- unlined collar, full cut, six-button front -- try Mercer & Sons, which charges $112.50 per shirt:

https://mercerandsons.com/swatches_and_pricing.htm


----------



## Howard

How should one use sunglasses etiquette when going into a place? Wear it on top of your head or have it clipped to your shirt Or use a sunglass case?


----------



## Jovan

Just stow them someplace other than your head.


----------



## jdemy

I am having some shirts made, Made to Measure, and the shirt maker I am using has swatch books from Albini and Thomas Mason (silver line). I like pinpoints a lot, and poplins as well.

Can anyone vouch for a specific pinpoint (or poplin) from either the Thomas Mason Silver line or the Albini collection that they have used and like?

After reading some of the posts about Thomas Mason Silver vs. gold lines, I am happy I have only the silver to choose from. I am not a fan of too light, silken, shirtings. I don't mind a good sheen on a pinpoint, but I don't need the shirting to shout luxury to everyone who walks by.

Oddly, I liked an Albini oxford (NOT pinpoint) called Oxford 70. I'm assuming the low thread count has to do with the openness of an oxford as well as whatever new bunching method mills are using...but is a count below 100 worrisome?


Thoughts?


----------



## Trad-ish

ColonialBoy said:


> Where can I find blue university stripe shirts, large size 3xb.


If you are looking for alpha sized shirts, Polo Ralph Lauren sells them in 3XB and 3XT iirc. They have the polo dude on them, not sure if that's a deal-breaker. Lands End offers some of their sizes in big as well.


----------



## tuckspub

I am looking at a shawl collar tuxedo to wear for a formal event in November and one of the first I have seen on Ebay to fit me is a Vito Rufolo made black tux with trousers. Everything looks good from a fit point of view, I will have to let the pants out one inch but otherwise the measurements appear to be a good fit. I have in the past limited myself to buying Brooks Brothers, Zegna and Canali jackets and suits when buying so know nothing about VR, never even heard of them. Do I have anyone on the site with experience with this brand? I still have quite a bit of time till the event but since I was looking at a shawl collared jacket I know that limits the availability. The auction ends in four hours so I would appreciate any feedback I would receive.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Anyone have a good source for large-check, logo-less, non-alpha sized gingham shirts in slim/tailored fits? Lands End had them a couple years ago but like most good things at Lands End they've been dropped from their line.


----------



## Spin Evans

tuckspub said:


> I am looking at a shawl collar tuxedo to wear for a formal event in November and one of the first I have seen on Ebay to fit me is a Vito Rufolo made black tux with trousers. Everything looks good from a fit point of view, I will have to let the pants out one inch but otherwise the measurements appear to be a good fit. I have in the past limited myself to buying Brooks Brothers, Zegna and Canali jackets and suits when buying so know nothing about VR, never even heard of them. Do I have anyone on the site with experience with this brand? I still have quite a bit of time till the event but since I was looking at a shawl collared jacket I know that limits the availability. The auction ends in four hours so I would appreciate any feedback I would receive.


From what I was able to glean (not much), it seems that the brand in question has a less-than-stellar record (one other forum member asked if the suits he found on eBay were "closer to Canali, or to Vito Rufolo"). That being said, whether to purchase or not depends on a few other things. What size do you wear? If it's a 42 or something like that, then you probably won't have much trouble finding another option, but a 36 might be harder to pick up before November. Also, is this tuxedo cheap? You may be able to find a better option later, but the price may not be what you want to pay for a garment you can only wear once in a blue moon.

Also, try search terms like "dinner [size]," which weeds out most of the After 6 prom iterations. There's still plenty of chaff, but it helps. eBay UK or etsy can also be good choices.


----------



## tuckspub

I wear a 46 Regular so I'm at the higher end size wise. The tux at present is under $50 shipping incl so it is certainly on the cheap end. Having said that, I have been able to amass over a dozen jackets from top end houses in that range by being persistent as well as a few suits in the $100 range. My thought is that by looking at shawl collars I am greatly reducing the number of jackets that are going to come up. I will check out the other sites you recommend and appreciate your input.


----------



## jimw

I'm posting this to the 'quick question' thread rather than starting a whole new post. Q: Is it normal to switch out gold buttons on a blue blazer for some shade of silver or nickel? I've done this with both of my blue blazers, mostly to match my wedding band (white gold), watches and occasional tie clip. That said, I've always wondered why most blazers come with gold buttons in the first place - I imagine it has to do with the provenance of a naval uniform, but still - I just prefer silver appointments all around.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Sounds perfectly normal to me. Personal preference rules in this instance!


----------



## Jovan

Seconded. It's certainly within the realm of classic taste and won't mark you out as a cad or anything.

Some examples...

https://thesuitsofjamesbond.com/?p=26

https://andersonlittle.com/


----------



## godan

My blue blazer has treasured University of Washington gold buttons that I did not know existed until I bought a set from a member here. Wearing it provides an opportunity to bring out a gold vintage Hamilton dress watch and a gold Tiffany style belt buckle.


----------



## t-sartor

Anybody bought from a Farley?


----------



## irsky

Hey guys, I am in need of some quick advice. I am still in high school, and wonderful lady from another school invited me to her homecoming dance. I was just going to wear some of the stuff I've accrued over the past few months, but I was sort of thrown a curve ball. Her dress is the untradliest of colors: teal (nothing wrong with that, dances are more for the girls anyway). I am really trying to find/think of way to match. Should I just not worry about matching, or can this be pulled off?


----------



## Tilton

Don't match. My HS girlfriend tried to pull me into that trap some years ago with a similar colored dress. She wanted me to wear a matching satin tie and PS. I said "nottachance!" and I was the only one in the "photo group" who didn't appear to be wearing a costume. 

FWIW, I wore mid-gray flannels, blue OCBD, navy blazer, red suspenders (which I mostly thought were a total novelty, so I wore them for laughs), and a red ancient-madderish bowtie. The last two of those items were found in my father's closet. 

Long story short, just think about how those pictures will look when your kids find them 25 years from now. All matchy-matchy and whatever - you don't want to look silly.


----------



## hardline_42

irsky said:


> Hey guys, I am in need of some quick advice. I am still in high school, and wonderful lady from another school invited me to her homecoming dance. I was just going to wear some of the stuff I've accrued over the past few months, but I was sort of thrown a curve ball. Her dress is the untradliest of colors: teal (nothing wrong with that, dances are more for the girls anyway). I am really trying to find/think of way to match. Should I just not worry about matching, or can this be pulled off?


Did she actually request that you match her dress? If not, I would heed Tilton's advice and not give it a second thought. Unless the two of you wear matching track suits on the daily, there is no basis for trying to match anything she's wearing.


----------



## straw sandals

I think the most important thing is to choose clothing that shows you're thinking about her. Depending on the formality of the dance and your personal style, you might pick a tie in a similar color (or with accents of a similar color). Or you could find ridiculous teal socks or braces (particularly cool because nobody will see until you take off your jacket when the dancing gets intense):

https://www.peruomo.co.uk/ourshop/prod_2060001-Albert-Thurston-Moire-Braces-Arctic-Blue.html

She'll appreciate the effort, even if it's a small thing.


----------



## loarbmhs

Put them in your pocket, or in a sunglasses case. And under no circumstances put them on the back of your neck, staring out behind you. Guy Fieri from _Diners, Drive-Ins and Divens_--and anybody else who assumes this affectation--looks like an absolute moron.


----------



## sarakali

Hello everyone. I just bought a chamois cloth shirt from L.L. Bean. It is incredibly warm and well-made, if a little large. I was wondering how to wear it so that the outfit still looks neat and put-together. It's almost too thick to tuck in and looks very blousy. Thanks.


----------



## Spin Evans

Back in high school, I wore my chamois shirts just as shirt-jackets. I'm less confident in wearing open shirts of any sort today, but I think it's a good look.


----------



## hardline_42

sarakali said:


> Hello everyone. I just bought a chamois cloth shirt from L.L. Bean. It is incredibly warm and well-made, if a little large. I was wondering how to wear it so that the outfit still looks neat and put-together. It's almost too thick to tuck in and looks very blousy. Thanks.


I don't have any chamois shirts, but I do have a few Pendleton wool flannel shirts. I wear them as shirt-jacs over an OCBD and khakis. Of course, my wool flannels have straight-bottom hems, not shirt-tail hems. If it weren't for that, I'd feel less comfortable wearing them untucked.


----------



## WillBarrett

Don't call what you're wearing an outfit.


----------



## sarakali

What is it otherwise? A set of clothes?


----------



## Mossback

What do you think of Thomas Pink Classic Fit OC with semi-cutaway collar? Nice looking shirt but $195 each. Thanks.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Billy Lee said:


> What do you think of Thomas Pink Classic Fit OC with semi-cutaway collar? Nice looking shirt but $195 each. Thanks.


They're expensive, in that the quality/price ain't great. Nice shirts, certainly. I'd be happy to thrift one in my size. If I were spending $200 for shirts, I probably wouldn't be buying OTR, and I certainly wouldn't be buying from Pink -- though they have a set of fox-shaped cufflinks that I covet.

Now, I presume that there's a little bit of an unasked question here, along the lines of "how does a spread collar royal oxford shirt work in a trad context?" and the answer to that is "very differently from how an OCBD works."

Royal oxford always reads to me as a "fancy" tone-on-tone pattern, very different to the hefty oxford cloth that's a keystone of the Ivy look. It's much less casual, for one thing. If an oxford shirt with a suit is a little heavy-handed, then a royal oxford with casual attire is a touch too formal. It could be done, very elegantly, but it wouldn't be Ivy/trad/whatever.

I plan to buy some pinpoint spread collars, and split the difference in terms of formality.


----------



## Jovan

Billy Lee said:


> What do you think of Thomas Pink Classic Fit OC with semi-cutaway collar? Nice looking shirt but $195 each. Thanks.


Not Trad, but for $200 find yourself a MTM shirt maker.


----------



## Dieu et les Dames

Rig is the most commonly accepted term.



sarakali said:


> What is it otherwise? A set of clothes?


----------



## Takai

I ran across a black camel hair sport coat with horn buttons, and was curious as to the general opinion on such a jacket.


----------



## loarbmhs

I'm not big on black suits and neither am I a fan of black sport coats. I reserve black strictly for tuxedos.



Takai said:


> I ran across a black camel hair sport coat with horn buttons, and was curious as to the general opinion on such a jacket.


----------



## godan

Black is just fine. It is often worn these days in urban settings. If you like the sport coat, and if it fits you, wear it.


----------



## Himself

sarakali said:


> Hello everyone. I just bought a chamois cloth shirt from L.L. Bean. It is incredibly warm and well-made, if a little large. I was wondering how to wear it so that the outfit still looks neat and put-together. It's almost too thick to tuck in and looks very blousy. Thanks.


As Spin Evans notes, these are often worn as jackets. The tails are slightly squared off so they look neater untucked than most. They _are_ bulky and stiff, so they can be awkward tucked in, which is best done with jeans or heavy khakis. I wear mine either way, but mostly around the house. ;-)


----------



## Jovan

^ I keep looking for the perfect wool CPO inspired shirt-jacket with straight tails, but it keeps escaping my grasp. All the ones I've found are sold out. I would get one that's official issue, but I'd feel silly having rounded tails untucked over a tucked in shirt. Maybe I should settle for the Bean chamois cloth.


----------



## Howard

When shopping for belts should you always shop for a size higher than what you wear now?


----------



## L-feld

Takai said:


> I ran across a black camel hair sport coat with horn buttons, and was curious as to the general opinion on such a jacket.


I support it. Wear it when you're going out on cold Friday nights.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Howard said:


> When shopping for belts should you always shop for a size higher than what you wear now?


Generally yes.

If one is a 36 the belt should most likely be a 38.


----------



## jimw

I'm trying to identify the make of this black calf long wing - found these for $3 a few years back, and they are of very good quality. There is no marking left on the insole, and all I can provide are the model/SKU numbers on the interior quarter (as pictured)

Thanks for your help,

Jim


----------



## Eric W S

Dieu et les Dames said:


> Rig is the most commonly accepted term.


Which is worse than the original - iGentry BS.


----------



## Green3

WillBarrett said:


> Don't call what you're wearing an outfit.


If you want to feel old after 42 years, keep dropping the hammer and grinding the gears.


----------



## rowanlane

Is there any type of suit coat or blazer that a pocket square should not be worn with?


----------



## loarbmhs

Not really. One small exception: If you happen to be wearing a boutonniere, it's usually that _or _a pocket square, not _and a pocket _square.


----------



## Walter Denton

Can anyone help me out with some information about Bills Chamois Cloth pants? Are they heavy weight like a chamois cloth shirt or moleskin pants? What is the fabric like? Thanks.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Green3 said:


> If you want to feel old after 42 years, keep dropping the hammer and grinding the gears.


I see what you did there.

So my question has to do with the seasonality of the Yellow oxford, a friend of mine reserves his for spring and summer while I generally wear mine year round. Thoughts? How do you guys wear yours?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

ThePopinjay said:


> I see what you did there.
> 
> So my question has to do with the seasonality of the Yellow oxford, a friend of mine reserves his for spring and summer while I generally wear mine year round. Thoughts? How do you guys wear yours?


Well, I look like I have jaundice if I wear yellow, but I think a yellow oxford can look good under tweed, and if yellow unistripe were still a thing, I would wear one with a shetland sweater.


----------



## Spin Evans

ThePopinjay said:


> I see what you did there.
> 
> So my question has to do with the seasonality of the Yellow oxford, a friend of mine reserves his for spring and summer while I generally wear mine year round. Thoughts? How do you guys wear yours?


They go wonderfully with Shetland sweaters.


----------



## loarbmhs

Totally agree with Youthful Repp-robate on this one. Year-round is fine, but never with a sallow complexion, unless you're trying to evoke sympathy that you've taken ill.



Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Well, I look like I have jaundice if I wear yellow, but I think a yellow oxford can look good under tweed, and if yellow unistripe were still a thing, I would wear one with a shetland sweater.


----------



## mcfrankshc

Being new to this forum, are club collars (or golf collars, as BB calls them) considered trad? If so, I have not been able to find many shirt makers who carry them. Since I cannot justify buying besopke, where can I find new club collar shirts?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

loarbmhs said:


> Totally agree with Youthful Repp-robate on this one. Year-round is fine, but never with a sallow complexion, unless you're trying to evoke sympathy that you've taken ill.


I'm not even particularly sallow -- I just have orange hair. I look pretty in pink, though.



mcfrankshc said:


> Being new to this forum, are club collars (or gold collars, as BB calls them) considered trad? If so, I have not been able to find many shirt makers who carry them. Since I cannot justify buying besopke, where can I find new club collar shirts?


Club collars are fairly trad, but if you're new to things, don't worry about them too much. They're far from an essential.


----------



## mcfrankshc

*golf collars

Thanks for the suggestion. I had the chance to try a club collar on before, and it looks better on me than most other collar styles, save the buttondown.


----------



## SouthTexasAlgadon

New to AskAndy and Trad. What is a good, go to, sports coat for everyday wear?


----------



## Reuben

Navy blazer, grey herringbone tweed.


SouthTexasAlgadon said:


> New to AskAndy and Trad. What is a good, go to, sports coat for any everyday wear?


----------



## SouthTexasAlgadon

Thanks Reuben. Also, are paisley ties considered trad?


----------



## Dmontez

Being just a couple hours north of you I would suggest the aforementioned navy blazer, but do some work and find them half lined, or unlined. It may take some time but they can be found especially here on the Thrift Store Exchange. I have one tweed that I can break out for the two or three months it gets below 50. I like a good glen plaid as well.


SouthTexasAlgadon said:


> New to AskAndy and Trad. What is a good, go to, sports coat for everyday wear?


----------



## SouthTexasAlgadon

Thanks. Nice see another South Texas boy. All this wool and only a few days out of the year to wear it.


Dmontez said:


> Being just a couple hours north of you I would suggest the aforementioned navy blazer, but do some work and find them half lined, or unlined. It may take some time but they can be found especially here on the Thrift Store Exchange. I have one tweed that I can break out for the two or three months it gets below 50. I like a good glen plaid as well.


----------



## Dmontez

Seeruscker trousers with a navy blazer looks quite handsome with a repp striped tie especially a bow.


SouthTexasAlgadon said:


> Thanks. Nice see another South Texas boy. All this wool and only a few days out of the year to wear it.


----------



## SouthTexasAlgadon

I have definitely worn that combination numerous times. I like a light blue/pink OCBD to go with it depending on the tie. Check out High Cotton ties. They are some of my favorite but don't really know how trad would like them.


Dmontez said:


> Seeruscker trousers with a navy blazer looks quite handsome with a repp striped tie especially a bow.


----------



## ThePopinjay

SouthTexasAlgadon said:


> Thanks Reuben. Also, are paisley ties considered trad?


I would say yes, as are paisley pocket squares (not that I'm an authority on the matter). Not that you should run out and buy a bunch just because it's considered 'trad'.


----------



## mcfrankshc

I don't want to go off topic here, but is there a convenient way of searching the trad thrift exchange for specific items? For example, how can I find 36S and tweed?


----------



## SouthTexasAlgadon

Ive done a quite a bit of lurking on there and I feel that its quite hard to pin-point certain sized items. It also seems easier to know specific sizes like Pit to Pit, Shoulder to Shoulder, Sleeve length and so on as manny things are specifically tagged.


mcfrankshc said:


> I don't want to go off topic here, but is there a convenient way of searching the trad thrift exchange for specific items? For example, how can I find 36S and tweed?


----------



## Dmontez

You can try using the Advanced search options, but I tend not to use them I prefer just scroll through till something catches my eye and hope that it fits, also what you should do is take measurements of your best fitting jacket and look for those measurements. Pit to Pit , and shoulder being the two most important measurements everything else can be tailored correct pretty easily.



mcfrankshc said:


> I don't want to go off topic here, but is there a convenient way of searching the trad thrift exchange for specific items? For example, how can I find 36S and tweed?


----------



## SouthTexasAlgadon

Thanks. Im not looking to go out ad buy a bunch. Already have several and I'm still going to wear them weather they are trad or not. Just wanted a little insight.


ThePopinjay said:


> I would say yes, as are paisley pocket squares (not that I'm an authority on the matter). Not that you should run out and buy a bunch just because it's considered 'trad'.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Oh and I should have said they go great with tweeds! But I guess we already discussed that might not be as helpful for you in your climate.


----------



## mcfrankshc

Thanks. It's just painfully rare to find my size, which is 16.5 ~ 17 shoulder and 19.5 chest.


----------



## SouthTexasAlgadon

Being from the south and the son of a cotton farmer I enjoy the usual 100 degrees and high humidity but if it drops below 70 I personally get pretty chilly so I wear them starting around early November when we get cold fronts. Plus I go to college about 6 hours north and its around 35 right now.


ThePopinjay said:


> Oh and I should have said they go great with tweeds! But I guess we already discussed that might not be as helpful for you in your climate.


----------



## mcfrankshc

What is the acceptable trad tie width? 3 or 3 1/2?


----------



## mcfrankshc

Also, are there any measurements taken to indicate armhole height? Thanks


----------



## SouthTexasAlgadon

Not many people post it but if you do find something close to your size I'm sure a PM to the seller can get you the info you need to make an accurate purchase.


mcfrankshc said:


> Also, are there any measurements taken to indicate armhole height? Thanks


----------



## ThePopinjay

mcfrankshc said:


> What is the acceptable trad tie width? 3 or 3 1/2?


I think depending on your frame it differs, I have a wider frame and most of my ties are 3.5, but I also have plenty that are 3.25, any thinner than that and it throws my proportions off. But if you have a thinner frame it wouldn't look as off as it does on me.


----------



## Jovan

mcfrankshc said:


> What is the acceptable trad tie width? 3 or 3 1/2?


Doesn't matter.


----------



## mcfrankshc

Do 3/2 roll sacks typically have soft (minimally constructed?) shoulders?


----------



## mcfrankshc

And if so, does it mean it's even more important to have a perfect fit on the shoulders?


----------



## Orgetorix

Yes, and sort of. Traditional sacks have soft shoulders that are lightly padded, if at all. 

It's always important to have shoulders fit as well as possible, but the less padding there is, the more difficult it is to achieve a good fit. With more padding, a tailor has more options for adjusting for oddities of shoulder slope and position.


----------



## mcfrankshc

Thanks. Any idea who invented the sack cut?


----------



## mcfrankshc

Or rather, around what time did sack become the popular and what served to popularize them?


----------



## Orgetorix

The sack suit technically goes back to the 1840s and became standard day wear for men as early as the mid 1850s. It was called a sack because, unlike the close-fit body coats (frock coats, morning coats, and other kinds of tailcoats) it didn't have a waist seam and so it fit more loosely. 

That's the sack coat that Brooks Brothers (and others) started selling in their early days, and it just sorta evolved gradually from there. Something like the modern 3-button sack was a Brooks Brothers staple (the number 1 suit) by the teens. Its Ivy heyday, the era that most influences most of what we know as Trad, was the '50s and '60s.


----------



## Tilton

I picked up two topcoats during the current JAB sale and only intend to keep one. One is a camel 3/4 length and one is a medium gray herringbone full length (but really a bit shorter since I usually wear a tall size). 

I plan to wear them more casually with OCBDs, sweaters, and khaki or navy chinos, cords, moleskines, etc.

My question is which will I get more mileage out of? Which will go better with chinos and sweaters? I like the camel color more but I'm afraid it may get too matchy matchy with most of my pants being khaki colored or close enough. 

FWIW, I wear a 48 and found that to just wear over a sweater and shirt, a 44 fit perfectly, nice and trim. I have little intention of wearing this over a coat as I already rarely wear SCs and I already have a solid very dark charcoal full length topcoat to wear with suits.


----------



## Billax

Tilton,

Both topcoats tilt toward the formal side unlike, say, a Camel Hair Polo Coat. Despite the lack of contrast with your Khaki pants, I'd go with the Camel coat. You have moleskins. navy chinos, and cords (color unspecified). Contrast with most/all of those would be fine and the Camel hair coat presents as elegantly casual. The herringbone coat (color unspecified among Navy, Charcoal, or Brown) reads as a more somber/more formal, piece of outerwear. Very nice, but not a great fit for the pants you intend to wear with it.

I'll qualify my recommendation by noting that I own two Camel Hair Polo coats and that I love Camel Hair coats/jackets of any kind, and I'm kind of a flamboyant old geezer. But, I'd bet you a nickel you'd look good and feel great wearing that Camel coat with those Navy Chinos!


----------



## Tilton

The DB of the polo coat just doesn't say casual to me. My other consideration was to drop the both and go for a camel colored duffle coat.


----------



## Reuben

The only problem I have with camel-colored coats and overcoats is that three days out of four I'm wearing some color of khaki chinos, and I've never liked the look of those khaki chinos sticking out from under a camel coat.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Billax

Tilton said:


> The DB of the polo coat just doesn't say casual to me. My other consideration was to drop the both and go for a camel colored duffle coat.


All of us have our own tastes and preferences. I'd only offer up that the American introduction of the Polo coat, by Brooks Brothers, as described by G. Bruce Boyer, contains the following sentence:

"There was a long definite swagger and cavalier _deshabille_ about them, combining as they did the comfort of a robe, the warmth of a topcoat, and the aura of an expensive and elegant sport."

I'm always a sucker for French words describing the formality, or lack thereof, of menswear. :icon_smile:

The Camel Duffle Coat would be a fine alternative.


----------



## Howard

How much would it cost to dry clean a leather jacket?


----------



## Jovan

https://www.ravefabricare.com/true-...-know-before-taking-them-to-the-cleaners.aspx


----------



## jimw

Does this Hardwick look to be a 2 button sack? I've been looking for a nice herringbone tweed.... Thanks.

https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/173...ga_search_type=all&ga_facet=vintageblazer+48r


----------



## Kreiger

If you flip to the second picture, you can see that it is darted.


----------



## jimw

Gotcha. I wonder what the shoulders are like - am still interested, but if it had excess padding, then I'm not too interested.

Thanks for your help,

Jim



Kreiger said:


> If you flip to the second picture, you can see that it is darted.


----------



## Reuben

Still a nice coat at a good price, though. I'd wear it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jimw

I agree, and it is now winging its way to me as I write this. I'm not sure that its particularly 'vintage', but don't care. It will add a new dimension to my limited lineup.










Reuben said:


> Still a nice coat at a good price, though. I'd wear it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Spin Evans

I finally found some BB blazer buttons for my 3/2 blazer at a thrift shop, but unfortunately, they only have two cuff buttons. I know that some older sport coats had one button per sleeve, but would this be too informal for a blazer?


----------



## randomdude

Does anyone have any experience with John Shooter? There is a nice looking black Gladstone bag for a good price that I am considering:

https://www.gun-slips.com/leather-gladstone-doctor-bag-carry-case-p-441.html


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Spin Evans said:


> I finally found some BB blazer buttons for my 3/2 blazer at a thrift shop, but unfortunately, they only have two cuff buttons. I know that some older sport coats had one button per sleeve, but would this be too informal for a blazer?


Two buttons is just right imho. Both of my older blazers have two buttons and my new BB blazer has 3.


----------



## Spin Evans

oxford cloth button down said:


> Two buttons is just right imho. Both of my older blazers have two buttons and my new BB blazer has 3.


Thanks for the response; however, there are only two blazer buttons _total_, thus giving me only one button per sleeve.


----------



## Reuben

Spin Evans said:


> Thanks for the response; however, there are only two blazer buttons _total_, thus giving me only one button per sleeve.


I'd say you need two per sleeve with brass buttons. You might be able to get away with it for horn or shell, but not brass. If there's a BB shop near you, you could see if they would give you a pair of sleeve buttons.


----------



## ThePopinjay

What are the J. Press 'trim' fit shirts like? I've been always wanted something to wear with a collar pin and looks like it'd fit the bill. Are the fits comparable to BB slim fit? Or would be better with a collar pin? 
Thanks for thoughts/opinions, guys.


----------



## mayostard

If anyone has a size 50 Barbour (any model, really), could you post the measurements (including sleeve length)?

thanks!


----------



## Tilton

Don't have a 50, but I wear 37" sleeves and my 46 Beaufort shows about 3/4" of shirt sleeve with my arms hanging at my side.


----------



## mayostard

Yeah, I'm wondering if the 50 is any longer. I had a 48 Gamefair and it was just too small all around. Apparently tall people are illegal in the UK.


----------



## thatkidwho

ThePopinjay said:


> What are the J. Press 'trim' fit shirts like? I've been always wanted something to wear with a collar pin and looks like it'd fit the bill. Are the fits comparable to BB slim fit? Or would be better with a collar pin?
> Thanks for thoughts/opinions, guys.


According to this J Press is trim is in between BB slim and extra slim


----------



## jimw

I've dealt with Hitchcock Wide Shoes before, and have no complaints. Does anyone have an idea of who manufactures their house brand of beefroll loafers?: https://www.wideshoes.com/catalog.cfm?page=street-and-dress_dress-moccasins_leather-sole-loafers


----------



## Eric W S

That college trad blog is so full of misinformation. Love the anti-Semite lean to that particular post. Shows how ignorant the blogger really is.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MaxBuck

Eric W S said:


> That college trad blog is so full of misinformation. Love the anti-Semite lean to that particular post. Shows how ignorant the blogger really is.


Looked in vain for any anti-Semitism in the blog. What on earth did you perceive to be a problem?


----------



## Eric W S

Read the descriptions in the post. Press is described as being Jew, opposite of the WASP description for BB. Neither is correct nor appropriate.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## MaxBuck

Eric W S said:


> Read the descriptions in the post. Press is described as being Jew, opposite of the WASP description for BB. Neither is correct nor appropriate.


Your browser must be different from mine, as the only commentary I see relates to Jacobi Press being a Jewish immigrant from Latvia. That's interesting to me, and hardly anti-Semitic. How is a factual statement regarding Mr. Press's heritage anti-Semitic?

There's no reason to tar people with labels they don't deserve.


----------



## Tilton

MaxBuck said:


> Your browser must be different from mine, as the only commentary I see relates to Jacobi Press being a Jewish immigrant from Latvia. That's interesting to me, and hardly anti-Semitic. How is a factual statement regarding Mr. Press's heritage anti-Semitic?
> 
> There's no reason to tar people with labels they don't deserve.


I think it is more of the "J. Press. Yalie. Jew." description of they "Ivy Leaguer" that he's referring to.

I'm more offended by the whole "Tech Prep" being about technical clothing for outdoor pursuits and then he tops it all off with the kitschy J Crew cotton boot socks. Don't get me wrong, I have an identical pair of J Crew boot socks (orange stripes and all), but they're pretty useless as far as technical items go. Okay, I'm not really offended, but it should be pointed out that cotton socks have no place in "tech wear."


----------



## Dr. D

I believe the College Trad blog is produced by a member here, inq89.


----------



## Eric W S

Tilton's reading comprehension is on point. I stand by my posts and they hardly "tar" anyone's reputation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Eric W S said:


> Tilton's reading comprehension is on point. I stand by my posts and they hardly "tar" anyone's reputation.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I still don't know who "Ronald Regan" is, but he's more Brooks than Press.


----------



## Tilton

That post inspired me to look at FNB forums - never peeked over there before. The difference I see in our Trad WIWT and their Ivy WIWT threads is FNB has more denim and more cardigan sweaters and that's about it. Many cross-posts.


----------



## MaxBuck

J Press was unquestionably founded by a Jew. Pointing out that fact (comparing to Brooks Brothers' founding by Gentiles, which is really less common for haberdashers) is anti-Semitic? I suppose the blogger was also anti-Yale for mentioning where the clothier started operations?

I think there are some people here who like to strain at gnats. No more from me on this non-issue.


----------



## Tilton

It wasn't offensive to me, but others on here are can be a bit sensitive.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Ok, so I need some opinions from the pros around here.

I recently lost quite a bit of extra weight, and my shirts are noticeably loose in the neck. I'm planning on buying some new OCBDs at the next semi-annual sale. 
Most of my Brooks OCBDs are a 16 neck...but I do have one that's a 15.5 (pictured here.) I still feel like I might benefit from moving down to a 15 neck. Thoughts?


----------



## loarbmhs

If you can fit one or two fingers against your neck and the shirt still feels comfortable, you're okay with that size. If you can fit _more_ than that in the shirt, go down a size. I can't tell where you fall on that spectrum, based on your photos. More specifically, I can't determine if you're pulling the shirt collar away from your neck or not. If you're not pulling it away, and the collar has that big a gap, the collar's too big. A final checkpoint: Button the neck and put on a tie. If when you pull the tie all the way up in the "v" in the collar, you get any bunching from excess fabric in the circumference of the collar, that's another "tell" that the collar's too big.



ArtVandalay said:


> Ok, so I need some opinions from the pros around here.
> 
> I recently lost quite a bit of extra weight, and my shirts are noticeably loose in the neck. I'm planning on buying some new OCBDs at the next semi-annual sale.
> Most of my Brooks OCBDs are a 16 neck...but I do have one that's a 15.5 (pictured here.) I still feel like I might benefit from moving down to a 15 neck. Thoughts?


----------



## Reuben

Quick question. Would a heathered navy wool flannel make a good choice for a waistcoat? It's got enough texture and a little color variation that I think it wouldn't look like an obvious orphan, and it seems like it'd be a versatile selection as well. If not, I might go with a pair of dress pants from the same, or maybe even both.


----------



## Eric W S

Tilton said:


> That post inspired me to look at FNB forums - never peeked over there before. The difference I see in our Trad WIWT and their Ivy WIWT threads is FNB has more denim and more cardigan sweaters and that's about it. Many cross-posts.


Yes and no. The FNB folks really try to adhere to their strict definition of Ivy. Unfortuantely, they miss on so many levels because it's hard to replicate the look within the constraints of what is currently available. And some things just need to be left in the past. They adhere to the style as oppossed to using it as an influence or muse. It's like Latin. It's good knowledge to have but like Latin, it's a dead language that is academic at best.


----------



## loarbmhs

What does "FNB" mean?



Tilton said:


> That post inspired me to look at FNB forums - never peeked over there before. The difference I see in our Trad WIWT and their Ivy WIWT threads is FNB has more denim and more cardigan sweaters and that's about it. Many cross-posts.


----------



## Orgetorix

https://forums.filmnoirbuff.com/index.php


----------



## Tilton

loarbmhs said:


> What does "FNB" mean?


Film Noir Buff - it is a website which I have been peripherally aware of for some time but have never visited. I always though it was trying to dress up like like characters from film noir movies or something (and they may, I don't care to look around more than I have). Apparently, they have an Ivy section dedicated to the TNSIL-style clothing the Trad forum here is drawn to, but (according to Eric W S) they try to be period-correct or whatever. I don't plan to spend any time there, seems boring (also: I could be wrong).


----------



## loarbmhs

Thanks very much. Have to brush up on my acronyms!



Tilton said:


> Film Noir Buff - it is a website which I have been peripherally aware of for some time but have never visited. I always though it was trying to dress up like like characters from film noir movies or something (and they may, I don't care to look around more than I have). Apparently, they have an Ivy section dedicated to the TNSIL-style clothing the Trad forum here is drawn to, but (according to Eric W S) they try to be period-correct or whatever. I don't plan to spend any time there, seems boring (also: I could be wrong).


----------



## Orgetorix

For the first several years of its existence, there wasn't much to FNB except relentless mockery of the other clothing forums, mainly by disaffected and banned former members of each and usually in the crudest ways possible. While that's still a large portion of the forum's DNA over there, in the last couple years they seem to have developed some ability to have conversations of their own.


----------



## Reuben

Wasn't it one of the FNB threads that put such a bee in anaffordablewardrobe's bonnet last year?


----------



## eagle2250

Gentlemen: The past half dozen posts to this thread are coming very close to violating Rule #4 of the AAAC Forum rules for participation. Please review rule four and proceed accordingly. 

Thanks for your cooperation!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Reuben said:


> Quick question. Would a heathered navy wool flannel make a good choice for a waistcoat? It's got enough texture and a little color variation that I think it wouldn't look like an obvious orphan, and it seems like it'd be a versatile selection as well. If not, I might go with a pair of dress pants from the same, or maybe even both.


I've seen An Acute Style wear navy waistcoats well, but I'm not sure I'd jump for one. I'd like the heathered effect of that more than I'd like a plain navy. I think that cloth would make a better vest than trousers, but I think it would be best as a coat.


----------



## gamma68

loarbmhs said:


> If you can fit one or two fingers against your neck and the shirt still feels comfortable, you're okay with that size. If you can fit _more_ than that in the shirt, go down a size. I can't tell where you fall on that spectrum, based on your photos. More specifically, I can't determine if you're pulling the shirt collar away from your neck or not. If you're not pulling it away, and the collar has that big a gap, the collar's too big. A final checkpoint: Button the neck and put on a tie. If when you pull the tie all the way up in the "v" in the collar, you get any bunching from excess fabric in the circumference of the collar, that's another "tell" that the collar's too big.


Art, I second the "two finger" rule. You could also go to a place like Brooks Brothers and ask them to measure your neck size. That's how I arrived at my correct size after losing weight.


----------



## drlivingston

I recently picked up two pairs of vintage Alden wingtips. Upon close inspection, they are built uneven. By that I mean the interior side of the heel cup (quarter) is built higher than the outside. I might be showing my ignorance here, but I have never seen that before. Is it normal or special order, or are they completely defective? I am leaning away from defective as both pairs have identical construction. Here are a few pics:


----------



## loarbmhs

I've special ordered from Alden before. But it was just to get a stock size/model that was out of stock. I'm not aware of them offering any kind of custom/MTM option, although from your pictures, it certainly does appear so (or the cutter/sewer had a few too many at lunch that day).



drlivingston said:


> I recently picked up two pairs of vintage Alden wingtips. Upon close inspection, they are built uneven. By that I mean the interior side of the heel cup (quarter) is built higher than the outside. I might be showing my ignorance here, but I have never seen that before. Is it normal or special order, or are they completely defective? I am leaning away from defective as both pairs have identical construction. Here are a few pics:


----------



## Eric W S

loarbmhs said:


> I've special ordered from Alden before. But it was just to get a stock size/model that was out of stock. I'm not aware of them offering any kind of custom/MTM option, although from your pictures, it certainly does appear so (or the cutter/sewer had a few too many at lunch that day).


Alden makes Orthotic shoes...


----------



## Reuben

Cobbler decided to polish my shell longwings for me after he put new heels on them. So far I've brushed through all of Die Hard, all of The Rock, and now half of Shooter. Any other advice?


----------



## loarbmhs

I must be dense. Not clear on what you're asking.


Reuben said:


> Cobbler decided to polish my shell longwings for me after he put new heels on them. So far I've brushed through all of Die Hard, all of The Rock, and now half of Shooter. Any other advice?


----------



## Tilton

1. ARMS OF STEEL, man. Keep it up, it'll work.
2. Electric toothbrush with soft bristles, if your arm is about to fall off. Done it before and I'm sure I'll do it again - it worked great for some thrifted shells. 
2. Last resort: Alcohol on a cotton pad will pull it off, just be gentle and use small amounts. It will dry them out, though, so have something like Saphir Renovateur at the ready.


----------



## Reuben

Naw, that wasn't quite as clear as it could have been. My cobbler gunked a bunch of polish on my shells after he put new heels on them, and I'm just now finishing getting most of it off after 3 straight action movies worth of brushing. I was asking if there was anything else I should do.

Edit: oh, and this might not be entirely approved of but I hit up the worst of the gunked on polish with an extra-soft plastic scouring pad and a little warm water. Not too hard, but just enough to get the worst of it.


----------



## Reuben

Many, many hours later:


----------



## drlivingston

Well done, Reuben! Should have used the hot spoon / deer bone method... lol


----------



## BigRudie

I'm sure this is answered elsewhere, but I'm new around here so please excuse me if my question is: "what exactly defines 'trad'"?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Reuben

Tweeds, oxford cloth buttondowns, sack jackets and 3/2 lapels, Shetlands and shaggy dogs, pennyloafers and longwings, Andover shop, J. Press, and older Brooks Brothers. Then again, this barely scratches the surface. Hang around long enough and you'll get the hang of it. We tend to be fairly forgiving of new guys. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## drlivingston

"And a New Word ... TRAD ... was coined! It began thus: 'Hello to all. I'm Harris. I live in the Northeastern U.S. and tend toward the American Look. Or Trad or whatever you wish to call it. Sack suits, tassel loafers, shetland crewnecks, Harris Tweeds, madras, etc. I am interested in knowing how many forum members have stuck with this look--the J. Press-Brooks-Andover Shop crowd.' And now the New Word has a home of its own."


----------



## HOOT

By the way where did that thread go? I remember seeing it in the 'stickies' not too long ago.


----------



## knucklehead

Many of the shoes I see on the thrift store exchange have flat shoelaces made of cloth (at least that's the only way I can figure how to describe them). A good example of what I'm talking about is on a pair of black long wings now being offered by Art Vandalay. I've not seen that kind of shoelace in decades. I can't find anything like it anywhere in town. Do laces like that have a name? Are they available online?


----------



## BigRudie

Thanks for that description. It sounds like I may have found the place I was looking for. 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Urbnhautebourg

If you wear a 21" Pit-to-Pit in a suit, what would be the best p2p measurement for an overcoat?


----------



## Orgetorix

Urbnhautebourg said:


> If you wear a 21" Pit-to-Pit in a suit, what would be the best p2p measurement for an overcoat?


22-23, depending on how close you want it to fit. Make sure the shoulders are an inch or two wider than your suit's shoulders, too.


----------



## Reuben

When reconditioning really, really dry shell, is there anything else to do beyond using Venetian shoe cream? And how do I know when I should stop putting VSC on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bigwordprof

I am considering this rig for my wedding: shawl, self tie bow, cummerbund, spread collar, pleat front, black studs and cuff links, white silk square, black patent balmorals. Am I missing anything? Any suggestions? Also, can i get a decent tuxedo for less than $400?


----------



## Orgetorix

bigwordprof said:


> I am considering this rig for my wedding: shawl, self tie bow, cummerbund, spread collar, pleat front, black studs and cuff links, white silk square, black patent balmorals. Am I missing anything? Any suggestions? Also, can i get a decent tuxedo for less than $400?


Sounds like you've got it covered.

You can find '60s-era vintage shawl tuxes all day long on Ebay and Etsy for well less than $400. Know your measurements and look for ones with good pictures so you can make sure it's in good condition. I bet there are some vintage clothing stores in Raleigh that would have options, too.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/Suits-/52394/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=vintage+tuxedo

If you don't want vintage, Jos A Bank has a shawl tux option. Just wait and it'll go on sale eventually. If there's a JAB outlet store in your area, they might have a cheaper version.

J Crew has a shawl version of their Ludlow tux that's $525, but it might go on sale at some point, too.


----------



## bigwordprof

Thanks for your response. I have definitely thought of JAB and will also do some local shopping.


----------



## Jovan

bigwordprof, do you know where you're getting the other items yet?


----------



## bigwordprof

Jovan said:


> bigwordprof, do you know where you're getting the other items yet?


Right now all I am sure of is that I will get a stud/links set and braces from Reuben. I have a white silk pocket square. I have long been a fan of beautiesltd.com and may try them for a bow tie and cummerbund, but that's not set in stone. The biggest question marks will be the shirt and patent shoes.


----------



## Reuben

If I'm having something made from deadstock bleeding madras, do I need to have it prewashed so it won't shrink after being cut and tailored? And if it ends up being a shirt or two, should I consider it machine-washable on cold?


----------



## scott w

Would a guy like us wear french cuffs with a sport jacket? I say no my wife says it doesn't matter

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## ArtVandalay

Does anyone have a good source for extra-long white undershirts? Mine always come untucked and bunch up above my waist.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

scott w said:


> Would a guy like us wear french cuffs with a sport jacket? I say no my wife says it doesn't matter
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


I would, but it's not Ivy/trad.


----------



## loarbmhs

I wouldn't. A bit too formal (for the shirt) with the more casual (for the jacket).


Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I would, but it's not Ivy/trad.


----------



## Tilton

Europeans have no qualms with french cuffs with sport coats. I'd do it if I owned french cuff shirts.


----------



## loarbmhs

Yeah, maybe. But the thing is, I live in the US.


Tilton said:


> Europeans have no qualms with french cuffs with sport coats. I'd do it if I owned french cuff shirts.


----------



## SammyH

_[I know this isn't a "trad" question but the bespoke forum doesn't allow me to post, being new. I thought it best to ask my question here rather than start a new thread.]
_
Hi everyone first post. I had a bespoke suit made a few years ago - and it's a very dressy suit that I wear on special occasions, rather than an everyday suit. Well, I'm living in NYC now and it seems I have need of it quite a few nights every week. I made the mistake of not getting a second pair of trousers made at the same time.

My question is, is there a possibility I might be able to get that second pair of trousers made that will match - or is it just impossible because materials change (stock, plus my suit material has changed somewhat if even marginal, etc.)

I just want to know if it's even in the realm of possibilities.

Joe Calautti (Rizzo/Cambridge) was the tailor by the way.

Thanks!


----------



## loarbmhs

You're probably out of luck. The fabric dye lots will differ slightly, and through time and dry cleaning, your suit has faded enough that the new pants won't match. You can always ask the original tailor whether or not the same fabric is still made, get a piece of it and see how close it looks to the jacket and pants.



SammyH said:


> _[I know this isn't a "trad" question but the bespoke forum doesn't allow me to post, being new. I thought it best to ask my question here rather than start a new thread.]
> _
> Hi everyone first post. I had a bespoke suit made a few years ago - and it's a very dressy suit that I wear on special occasions, rather than an everyday suit. Well, I'm living in NYC now and it seems I have need of it quite a few nights every week. I made the mistake of not getting a second pair of trousers made at the same time.
> 
> My question is, is there a possibility I might be able to get that second pair of trousers made that will match - or is it just impossible because materials change (stock, plus my suit material has changed somewhat if even marginal, etc.)
> 
> I just want to know if it's even in the realm of possibilities.
> 
> Joe Calautti (Rizzo/Cambridge) was the tailor by the way.
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## Jovan

SammyH said:


> _[I know this isn't a "trad" question but the bespoke forum doesn't allow me to post, being new. I thought it best to ask my question here rather than start a new thread.]
> _
> Hi everyone first post. I had a bespoke suit made a few years ago - and it's a very dressy suit that I wear on special occasions, rather than an everyday suit. Well, I'm living in NYC now and it seems I have need of it quite a few nights every week. I made the mistake of not getting a second pair of trousers made at the same time.
> 
> My question is, is there a possibility I might be able to get that second pair of trousers made that will match - or is it just impossible because materials change (stock, plus my suit material has changed somewhat if even marginal, etc.)
> 
> I just want to know if it's even in the realm of possibilities.
> 
> Joe Calautti (Rizzo/Cambridge) was the tailor by the way.
> 
> Thanks!


At this point, it may be better to just get another high quality suit that you'd wear for special occasions.


----------



## oakhill

Are Kent Wang OCBD any good?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

oakhill said:


> Are Kent Wang OCBD any good?


The OTR ones? They're described as having 2.5" collar points, which is sort of a turn-off.


----------



## Jovan

I'd say that's in the eye of the beholder. I haven't tried them, but they certainly aren't most trads' cup of tea with the tiny fused collar, lack of pocket, no front placket, and edge stitching. In fact, the latter is why I can't bring myself to buy any of his other shirts (no offence, Kent).

Basically, if you're a fashionable, minimalist chap it may be your style.


----------



## Ale House

Asked in another thread but wasn't answered.. anyone have experience with Proper Cloth OCBD's? $85.. They have a pink uni stripe I'm interested in.


----------



## mcfrankshc

I plan on visiting New York and Princeton NJ during march. I've heard people mention Allen Edmonds seconds...where can these be found?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Jovan said:


> I'd say that's in the eye of the beholder.


Oh, trust me. I don't expect anybody else to share my turn-offs.



mcfrankshc said:


> I plan on visiting New York and Princeton NJ during march. I've heard people mention Allen Edmonds seconds...where can these be found?


Wisconsin.

Somebody on here will be able to hook you up with the Shoebank number (the Shoebank is sort of the Allen Edmonds dog pound, located next to the factory).


----------



## Jovan

I entered my message before I saw yours YRR, but I guess my first sentence was still applicable. My BB popover has the Clifford collar. While I like that it's unlined and has a back collar button, I'm not so fond of the 2.5" point length and short collar stand.

Ale House: Which thread did you ask this in? Proper Cloth is not bad, though I wish some of the construction was slightly better quality. I've only gotten a pinpoint spread collar. Get the Soft Ivy Button-Down collar. It's much better looking than their other two button-downs from what I can see. I would also advise you checking out Ratio Clothing, however. Ask about their Long Roll Button-Down through email, it's available by special request (as are a bunch of other goodies). I wish they had a pink uni-stripe, though I think Proper trumps them a bit in terms of fabric variety.


----------



## Ale House

Jovan said:


> Ale House: Which thread did you ask this in? Proper Cloth is not bad, though I wish some of the construction was slightly better quality. I've only gotten a pinpoint spread collar. Get the Soft Ivy Button-Down collar. It's much better looking than their other two button-downs from what I can see. I would also advise you checking out Ratio Clothing, however. Ask about their Long Roll Button-Down through email, it's available by special request (as are a bunch of other goodies). I wish they had a pink uni-stripe, though I think Proper trumps them a bit in terms of fabric variety.


I asked in the Best OCBD thread.

I actually have a Ratio OCBD.. and it's probably my favorite shirt (and I can't say enough about the customer service).

I registered at PC and they gave me a discount code for $20 since it will be a first time purchase, so I think I will give it a shot within the next few weeks. Thanks for the advice about the collar. I didn't even realize there were more options, and that definitely looks the best.


----------



## mcfrankshc

Other than BB, which retailers usually offer jackets in "youth" sizes? I'm looking for some small and short jackets (36S) so any input is appreciated.


----------



## Barnavelt

Are you _trying_ to hold all of us Madras-heads in utter suspense?

If the madras in question is from an old bolt of fabric or something, I question if it would be pre-shrunk. When I was a kid, shrinking cotton clothing was always considered an issue; I don't know when pre-shrunk became common..

As for washing, I have washed my one bleeding madras shirt on the cold setting and by itself. The color didn't change nearly as much as I had anticipated it would. I consider such things as being meant to be washed and the changes in color part of the charm.

I eagerly await pictures of your project...



Reuben said:


> If I'm having something made from deadstock bleeding madras, do I need to have it prewashed so it won't shrink after being cut and tailored? And if it ends up being a shirt or two, should I consider it machine-washable on cold?


----------



## kidcharlemange

bigwordprof said:


> I am considering this rig for my wedding: shawl, self tie bow, cummerbund, spread collar, pleat front, black studs and cuff links, white silk square, black patent balmorals. Am I missing anything? Any suggestions? Also, can i get a decent tuxedo for less than $400?


I too am putting together a black tie rig for my wedding. I got the "lower level" JAB peak lapel jacket and slacks on a super sale for appx $180 or so. They are black worsted wool (except the satin trim) and honestly look pretty sharp. I'm happy with it, and they've got a good return policy if you don't like it.

I say go for it - its very feasible to put together a nice rig for $400. You'll look worlds better that the average Joe in a kit that is all wool and properly tailored. Consider getting your bowtie from Cordial Churchman - I've got several from them and always have been impressed. Maybe some silk shoelaces too (that's my plan).


----------



## samsoner

Which pants style is preferable for a corporate office environment? I am looking at Louis Raphael pants and I'm not sure which style is the best.

Flat-front dress vs. Pleated dress? 

Solid colors vs. Tattersal check or other patterns?

Charcoal vs. Solid black?

Thanks!


----------



## Spin Evans

Who is Louis Raphael and why would you want pants from him?? :confused2:

No matter what your budget is, you can do better than some no-name department store brand. Also, you may do better to post this in the fashion section instead of the trad forum.


----------



## Jovan

Ale House said:


> I asked in the Best OCBD thread.
> 
> I actually have a Ratio OCBD.. and it's probably my favorite shirt (and I can't say enough about the customer service).
> 
> I registered at PC and they gave me a discount code for $20 since it will be a first time purchase, so I think I will give it a shot within the next few weeks. Thanks for the advice about the collar. I didn't even realize there were more options, and that definitely looks the best.


Definitely a better deal at $85 or, with your code, $65. The construction quality doesn't merit the same price RC asks. Really wish they'd move their production back to the USA. I want to like them more because of all the options, but quality definitely went down when they moved it to Malaysia. I dare say I wouldn't really mind prices going up a bit if that happened.


----------



## mayostard

What's the code for the $20 discount at Ratio?


----------



## bigwordprof

I would like to know this as well.

What are some quality tuxedo shirt options (pleats, studs, turndown collar, french cuffs)? My absolute max would be around $150 for a MTM (Ratio) version.


----------



## Dr. D

mayostard said:


> What's the code for the $20 discount at Ratio?


https://www.ratioclothing.com/t-landing-offer.aspx



bigwordprof said:


> What are some quality tuxedo shirt options (pleats, studs, turndown collar, french cuffs)? My absolute max would be around $150 for a MTM (Ratio) version.


J. Press has a 5-pleat for $130 (goes on sale for 25% off frequently)
https://www.jpressonline.com/tuxedo-shirt-5-pleats/

Brooks has a 10 pleat for $135
https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Whit...?dwvar_160E_Color=WHIT&contentpos=2&cgid=0235

Banks has a 5 pleat and 8 pleat (I'm sure they will be on sale at some point soon)
https://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Product_11001_10050_101901
https://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Product_11001_10050_101484

Kent Wang and Tyrwhitt also have well-regarded formal shirts but they do not offer models with pleats.


----------



## bigwordprof

Thanks!


----------



## kidcharlemange

bigwordprof said:


> I would like to know this as well.
> 
> What are some quality tuxedo shirt options (pleats, studs, turndown collar, french cuffs)? My absolute max would be around $150 for a MTM (Ratio) version.


Luxire is also an option - I anticipate going with them. They can do a marcella bib or pleats, and will include a removable collar for free. They also include the vest strap and all of those fiddly bits that help keep the vest in place. https://custom.luxire.com/blogs/luxire-custom/7076752-luxire-tuxedo-shirt


----------



## mcfrankshc

URGENT

If my sport coat measures 17 inches in the shoulder and 19.3 inches in the chest, how should an overcoat measure?


----------



## djm

Is it ok to tailor a suit jacket from the shoulder if it has a shirt shoulder?


----------



## Tilton

mcfrankshc said:


> URGENT
> 
> If my sport coat measures 17 inches in the shoulder and 19.3 inches in the chest, how should an overcoat measure?


Just buy the same tagged size as your sport coat. They make 'em bigger.


----------



## dan138zig

need some new beater shoes to upgrade from my sperry. i was initially looking for ll bean jackman blucher but they won't be restocked until may, which is ridiculous. so what do you think of these for 160 USD?




























Horween Brown Chromexcel leather
Lamb skin linning
Creepe Sole
Real Moccasin + Blake Stitch Construction
Brown wax coated lace
Genuine leather welt
Chevalier's Footbed Technology
Chevalier's Arch Support Technology
Clean Construction
Last : Moccasin


----------



## SammyH

I'm trying to find a natural shoulder tuxedo jacket, with pants etc. I'm either going to do made-to-measure or get on from Jpress. Any other suggestions? Also, peak lapel or notched - which is more ivy/trad in a dinner jacket? Thanks!


----------



## bigwordprof

Peak lapels are definitely traditional black tie. Check out this site:

www.blacktieguide.com


----------



## SammyH

bigwordprof said:


> Peak lapels are definitely traditional black tie. Check out this site:
> 
> www.blacktieguide.com


I see, thanks. How do I decide between shawl or peak then?


----------



## loarbmhs

Go with peak. They're both classic, but peak is a bit more elegant.


SammyH said:


> I see, thanks. How do I decide between shawl or peak then?


----------



## SammyH

loarbmhs said:


> Go with peak. They're both classic, but peak is a bit more elegant.


Thanks! Well..hmmmmm....yeah, I generally try to eschew "elegance." So I'll have to think about that.


----------



## Jovan

... why would one _want_ to eschew elegance?


----------



## SammyH

Jovan said:


> ... why would one _want_ to eschew elegance?


Well, it's prolly my own idiosyncratic taste. However, to me the word "elegant" is what I associate with everything satorial that I despise: big padded suit/jacket shoulders; clothes that draw attention to themselves, that always seem new, that even have a kind of shine or shimmer to them.

I prefer the understated, the comfortable, the worn-in look, the slightly rumpled.


----------



## Spin Evans

SammyH said:


> Well, it's prolly my own idiosyncratic taste. However, to me the word "elegant" is what I associate with everything satorial that I despise: big padded suit/jacket shoulders; clothes that draw attention to themselves, that always seem new, that even have a kind of shine or shimmer to them.
> 
> I prefer the understated, the comfortable, the worn-in look, the slightly rumpled.


I think Boyer would faint dead away at _that_ definition of elegance! These posts from Derek always stuck with me, I think they will help you understand where Jovan and most folks are coming from when they use the term "elegance."


----------



## Jovan

^ This. To me, a typical shawl collar evening getup (including pleated shirt and cummerbund) can be _elegant_ in the way it looks sleek. There's a reason they were the most popular lapel choice for dinner jackets in the '50s and '60s.


----------



## ArtVandalay

In the market for a new pair of sunglasses. My assumption is that at this price, this pair of Wayfarers has to be fake. Am I right?


----------



## Spin Evans

ArtVandalay said:


> In the market for a new pair of sunglasses. My assumption is that at this price, this pair of Wayfarers has to be fake. Am I right?


The price is less concerning than the name of the business. I believe "luxury" is French for "mall kiosk." Beyond that, the staging, the fact that they are new in box, the lack of a true address, and zero feedback are all red flags. I would go on eBay and select "pre-owned" to filter through some of the Asian knockoffs, then zero-in on the crappiest photograph and start there. Seeing what else they are selling can also help indicate how likely they are to be real.


----------



## Acme

^Looks suspicious to me. The store has only been open five days, the price is way below anything you can find on Google shopping, and they're in violation of Etsy policy for selling new goods like this.

I wouldn't. But good luck to you if you do.


----------



## Reuben

What's the outer limit on altering a jacket? I thrifted a wonderful light grey glen plaid three-piece suit with a dark burgundy overcheck that fits well everywhere except the waist of the coat. It was made for someone quite round in the midsection, and is borderline bellshaped. Can I get the sides taken in enough or should I not even bother?


----------



## Dmontez

If you are looking for wayfarers I suggest nomorerack.com they have wayfarers for 80.00 or so.
https://mobile.nomorerack.com/products?q=Ray+ban



ArtVandalay said:


> In the market for a new pair of sunglasses. My assumption is that at this price, this pair of Wayfarers has to be fake. Am I right?


----------



## Fading Fast

SammyH said:


> Well, it's prolly my own idiosyncratic taste. However, to me the word "elegant" is what I associate with everything satorial that I despise: big padded suit/jacket shoulders; clothes that draw attention to themselves, that always seem new, that even have a kind of shine or shimmer to them.
> 
> I prefer the understated, the comfortable, the worn-in look, the slightly rumpled.


Elegant is much closer to what you want - especially the understated and comfortable (if meant in a naturally fitting look, properly traditionally tailored manner) - and is the opposite of "clothes that draw attention to themselves, that alway seem new, that even have a kind of shine or shimmer to them."

_Attention, shine, shimmer_ are the opposite of elegant attire IMHO. For example, a high-quality, but almost becoming threadbare in parts, suit that is properly tailored and part of a tasteful outfit is more elegant to me than a brand-new loud or shiny suit (think what many of the younger actors wear to awards shows - which are not elegant at all).

Part of the problem with the extreme tight / skinny suits today is that they aren't elegant because by being so tight they call attention to themselves, they aren't understated and they don't look natural or comfortable. They are all about saying - look at me, I'm dressing to the moment, I am in fashion, I get it - the opposite of elegance. You want to look like, in private, you would slump on a sofa and read a book in your suit because it fits comfortably and you are natural and comfortable in it - that is elegant. The super skinny look is one that you image a person getting out of before relaxing at home - that's suffering for fashion, not elegance.


----------



## Himself

Jovan said:


> ^ This. To me, a typical shawl collar evening getup (including pleated shirt and cummerbund) can be _elegant_ in the way it looks sleek. There's a reason they were the most popular lapel choice for dinner jackets in the '50s and '60s.


I concur.

Similarly, the era's Hollywood Regency design had no outsized furniture or filigree to distract from people and faces.


----------



## hardline_42

ArtVandalay said:


> In the market for a new pair of sunglasses. My assumption is that at this price, this pair of Wayfarers has to be fake. Am I right?


If you're shopping for sunglasses and aren't married to Ray Ban, please do yourself a favor and take a look at Shuron. I can't say enough good things about their product and service. The construction is better than current Ray Ban, they're available in many more sizes, they send you up to six pairs to try on, they can customize them with any lens you want, prescription or not, and they're made in the USA. Take a look at the Sidewinder and Freeway models.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Thanks fellas for the advice. Figured the RayBan deal was too good to be true.

Hardline, I will take a look into Shuron. I recently tried out a five-pack sampler from Warby Parker, but I wasn't in love with any of the frames, so I will definitely check out Shuron later this evening.


----------



## Reuben

Check out Serengeti, too. I love my aviators from them.


----------



## gamma68

I recently thrifted a pair of NOS Bass Weejuns, made in the USA, cordovan, in my size. Haven't worn them at all because of the nasty snowy weather. I have two questions:

1. Should I polish them before wearing them? (As I said, they are as-new, never worn.) If so, should I use a neutral or cordovan polish?

2. The shoes fit well, but slip at the heel when walking. What sort of remedy can I apply? Seems to me I saw a thread a while back about adding pads, but can't find it using the search function.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## L-feld

gamma68 said:


> I recently thrifted a pair of NOS Bass Weejuns, made in the USA, cordovan, in my size. Haven't worn them at all because of the nasty snowy weather. I have two questions:
> 
> 1. Should I polish them before wearing them? (As I said, they are as-new, never worn.) If so, should I use a neutral or cordovan polish?
> 
> 2. The shoes fit well, but slip at the heel when walking. What sort of remedy can I apply? Seems to me I saw a thread a while back about adding pads, but can't find it using the search function.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


(1) cordovan as is material or color? If material, just brush the crap out of them and, if they look dry from all those years of sitting around, a little renovateur or cordovan cream or deer-boning is in order.

(2) tongue pads will help (basically just some felt with adhesive on one side), but the slippage won't go away until the sole breaks in. Try some leather conditioner in the sole.

Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


----------



## gamma68

L-feld said:


> (1) cordovan as is material or color? If material, just brush the crap out of them and, if they look dry from all those years of sitting around, a little renovateur or cordovan cream or deer-boning is in order.
> 
> (2) tongue pads will help (basically just some felt with adhesive on one side), but the slippage won't go away until the sole breaks in. Try some leather conditioner in the sole.


1. Cordovan as in color, I guess. They look as if they were made yesterday, so they are bright and shiny. What I'd like to know is if it's standard practice to give new shoes a shine to keep them looking great and provide some level of protection against inevitable scuffs, etc.

2. I'm not sure I understand how conditioning the sole would help with heel slippage. Can you please elaborate?


----------



## tigerpac

Bright and shiny may mean shell cordovan. Do a quick search on here or google for some good tips on telling the difference.

If the sole is softer and breaks in, it'll bend more and you will get less heel slippage.


----------



## Fiddlermatt

Is there even such a thing as a shell cordovan weejun?


----------



## gamma68

Fiddlermatt said:


> Is there even such a thing as a shell cordovan weejun?


I wondered the same. The best photo I can provide is below. Maybe it will also help determine if I should apply any polish or just take them for a spin after getting some tongue pads.


----------



## L-feld

gamma68 said:


> 1. Cordovan as in color, I guess. They look as if they were made yesterday, so they are bright and shiny. What I'd like to know is if it's standard practice to give new shoes a shine to keep them looking great and provide some level of protection against inevitable scuffs, etc.
> 
> 2. I'm not sure I understand how conditioning the sole would help with heel slippage. Can you please elaborate?


(1) With corrected grain and some calf, a lot of people like to strip the factory polish and then apply their own. Rubbing alcohol works well for that. I usually just wear em.

(2) Even if they fit perfectly, your heel slips out because the sole is not as flexible a your foot. When you walk, your foot bends, but the sole does not. You want the sole to get more flexible so that it will bend when your foot bends. Part of this comes from just wearing it, as the footbed molds to your foot and gets thinner at the stress points. You can speed up the process a little by conditioning the soles.


----------



## L-feld

Fiddlermatt said:


> Is there even such a thing as a shell cordovan weejun?


There is now! ugh

https://www.ivy-style.com/new-us-made-calf-cordovan-weejuns-due-this-fall.html


----------



## Fiddlermatt

L-feld said:


> There is now! ugh
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/new-us-made-calf-cordovan-weejuns-due-this-fall.html


$350 for the calf version? They must be nuts!


----------



## Reuben

L-feld said:


> (1) With corrected grain and some calf, a lot of people like to strip the factory polish and then apply their own. Rubbing alcohol works well for that. I usually just wear em.
> 
> (2) Even if they fit perfectly, your heel slips out because the sole is not as flexible a your foot. When you walk, your foot bends, but the sole does not. You want the sole to get more flexible so that it will bend when your foot bends. Part of this comes from just wearing it, as the footbed molds to your foot and gets thinner at the stress points. You can speed up the process a little by conditioning the soles.


I've got a pair of CG saddle shoes and a quart of glacial acetic acid someone left at my house after a party. Sounds like I've finally found a good use for them both.


----------



## SammyH

What's most appropriate for the groom to wear to the wedding ceremony (anglo-Catholic)? Full White Tie dress I assume?


----------



## Orgetorix

SammyH said:


> What's most appropriate for the groom to wear to the wedding ceremony (anglo-Catholic)? Full White Tie dress I assume?


The higher the church, the more formal dress is appropriate. Morning coat before 6pm, white tie after 6pm.


----------



## MaxBuck

Reuben said:


> I've got a quart of glacial acetic acid someone left at my house after a party.


You lead an adventurous life.


----------



## Reuben

More like a bunch of drunken nerdy friends. There's a parking arm and a gladius laying around too. 


Sent from the USS Eldridge using Tapatalk


----------



## mhj

MaxBuck said:


> You lead an adventurous life.


What do you do with glacial acetic acid at a party, I'm always looking for new thrills :smile:


----------



## Reuben

mhj said:


> What do you do with glacial acetic acid at a party, I'm always looking for new thrills :smile:


 Have no earthly idea. Found it sitting on the kitchen counter, cap sealed, when I was cleaning up the next morning.

Sent from the USS Eldridge using Tapatalk


----------



## Jovan

Fiddlermatt said:


> $350 for the calf version? They must be nuts!


Why? That's about the standard for good quality, made in USA shoes.


----------



## Reuben

Oh, and before and after comparison of stripping CG saddles:



Sent from the USS Eldridge using Tapatalk


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## Fiddlermatt

Jovan said:


> Why? That's about the standard for good quality, made in USA shoes.


I suppose I am used to AE pricing. I don't see any of their loafers over $300. Their penny is $225. What is Bass offering over AEs? Better quality? Better fit options? Better customer service? Cheaper re-crafting? Bass's offering better be a lot more shoe than AE for $350.


----------



## Reuben

Fiddlermatt said:


> I suppose I am used to AE pricing. I don't see any of their loafers over $300. Their penny is $225. What is Bass offering over AEs? Better quality? Better fit options? Better customer service? Cheaper re-crafting? Bass's offering better be a lot more shoe than AE for $350.


Rebranded mark-up, I bet. Like the new Eastland or Sebago Made-in-Maines.

Sent from the USS Eldridge using Tapatalk


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## rsgordon

WOW! very interesting post



Reuben said:


> Oh, and before and after comparison of stripping CG saddles:
> 
> Sent from the USS Eldridge using Tapatalk


----------



## bigwordprof

Does anybody know anything about J. Hilburn quality? They have a grosgrain cummerbund for $79 that I am interested in. Are there any other good grosgrain cummerbund options?


----------



## loarbmhs

Don't know anything about J. Hilburn, but Robert Talbott makes a very nice one (not sure if they sell it without the tie).


bigwordprof said:


> Does anybody know anything about J. Hilburn quality? They have a grosgrain cummerbund for $79 that I am interested in. Are there any other good grosgrain cummerbund options?


----------



## SammyH

What is the point of a tie bar? Do people here wear them? I could see the point of it to make the knot/top of tie pop out above a sweater, if you know what I mean. But otherwise I don't see the point. They seem a bit fussy to me.


----------



## eagle2250

Methinks it's sole purpose is to "better present the knot" in your tie. Good question, though. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Barnavelt

I believe the tie bar is designed to do just that; make the tie knot more prominent. Heavy duty sevenfold ties like those favored by Dr Livingston tend to make a more robust knot that stands at attention, but a tie bar could perhaps encourage a flimsier tie to be less so. Indeed they do seem more and more like an anachronism and I honestly don't think I ever have seen one in the wild, but I suppose if they are doing their job they would not be very noticeable.


----------



## Barnavelt

I know this has been addressed, but every time I read online and in print the men's fashion axiom that "pleated trousers have cuffs, flat front do not" I feel like I am doing something wrong with my closet full of cuffed flat front trousers. Really, how bad should I feel? :redface:


----------



## SammyH

I've never heard that in my life. Certain materials (say, a whipcord) aren't traditionally cuffed, but the original reasons for that at this point are no longer in force. Indeed, it's very ivy-trad style to wear flat front (NOT pleated) AND cuffed pants. It's pretty standard ivy wear actually. 

The question I want to know is, what is the point of pleats?


----------



## Barnavelt

SammyH said:


> I've never heard that in my life. Certain materials (say, a whipcord) aren't traditionally cuffed, but the original reasons for that at this point are no longer in force. Indeed, it's very ivy-trad style to wear flat front (NOT pleated) AND cuffed pants. It's pretty standard ivy wear actually.
> 
> The question I want to know is, what is the point of pleats?


Yes indeed SammyH, when I embarked on building my traditional American wardrobe, "cuffs for all" was one of the first things I learned. Whenever possible I get cuffs, including on heavier weight wool pants, moleskins, etc. I like the look with flat fronts. I believe I read about the flat front and cuffs prohibition in one of my wife's magazines ("10 dressing better steps for men" or some such) or perhaps on a non-style oriented website. In any case, we may not follow the "rule" but it does appear to be alive and well in some (less ivy) sartorial circles.

I have always understood pleats as making a pair of trousers more flattering and comfortable for a larger man. I have a few pair with forward pleats, which are less blousy. There are many, many threads on here about pleats and just as many opinions!


----------



## SammyH

Barnavelt said:


> I believe I read about the flat front and cuffs prohibition in one of my wife's magazines ("10 dressing better steps for men" or some such)....


well, that right there is the problem :cool2:



> I have always understood pleats as making a pair of trousers more flattering and comfortable for a larger man. I have a few pair with forward pleats, which are less blousy. There are many, many threads on here about pleats and just as many opinions!


Yes, I've heard that and I suppose it does allow for more room - though how it became a general style that even slim people wore I just don't understand.


----------



## Jovan

Untrue. I realize this is the Trad Forum, but we need not spread such lies.

Pleats are for everyone, regardless of body type. One would hardly call the Duke of Windsor a large man, yet he was wearing pleats back when they first came about (much to his father's chagrin, ironically).

I don't know where the Ivy thing of plain front with cuffs came about, because I can't find any photographic examples from actual Ivy League schools in the '50s and '60s. That said, I like them with lightweight suitings because of how they help the legs drape.


----------



## sbpep

been doing some reading as of late, first of all thank you all so much for inspiring me to break out from the normal khakis/blazer. I recently picked up a brown herringbone tweed from thrift and then found a yellow gingham bb shirt today. I've worn the jacket with a blue gingham shirt before but I'm not sure if I can get away with pairing the yellow with the brown jacket. If I did wear the yellow shirt w/ brown herringbone I was thinking about wearing navy blue cords to balance it out. Any thoughts on patterned shirt colors that work and don't work with brown herringbone? Also, should I avoid the yellow gingham and just wear a blue patterned shirt? Thanks so much


----------



## SammyH

Jovan said:


> Untrue. I realize this is the Trad Forum, but we need not spread such lies.
> 
> Pleats are for everyone, regardless of body type. One would hardly call the Duke of Windsor a large man, yet he was wearing pleats back when they first came about (much to his father's chagrin, ironically).
> 
> I don't know where the Ivy thing of plain front with cuffs came about, because I can't find any photographic examples from actual Ivy League schools in the '50s and '60s. That said, I like them with lightweight suitings because of how they help the legs drape.


Fair enough.

To me cuffs make the pant look finished - and conversely they look unfinished without them - and, as you say, they really help with drape.

I'm still confused though - lol  : so what is the point of pleats?


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## Jovan

To make trousers more comfortable to move in.


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## SammyH

Jovan said:


> To make trousers more comfortable to move in.


I see. Well, you can see why people think what they do about pleats. Not a far jump from "easier to move around in" to "more or less meant for larger guys"


----------



## Billax

Jovan said:


> *Untrue.* *I realize this is the Trad Forum, but we need not spread such lies*.
> 
> Pleats are for everyone, regardless of body type. One would hardly call the Duke of Windsor a large man, yet he was wearing pleats back when they first came about (much to his father's chagrin, ironically).
> 
> *I don't know where the Ivy thing of plain front with cuffs came about, because I can't find any photographic examples from actual Ivy League schools in the '50s and '60s.* That said, I like them with lightweight suitings because of how they help the legs drape.


May I provide you with one such example of plain front khaki trousers with cuffs as worn at Yale during the heyday of the Ivy League style?


Additionally, among the dozens of photographs in T. Hayashida's classic 1965 book, Take Ivy, _none_ show a male in pleated trousers. PDFs of these photographs are widely available on the Internet. Heck, even the dust jacket of this book shows a guy in a sport coat wearing flat front, cuffed pants.

Finally, my own experience as a college student (1959-1964), in the heyday of the Ivy League Look completely supports the idea that trousers worn with a sport coat, whether flannels or khakis, were cuffed, plain front. Can one find exceptions? Almost certainly. However, the overwhelming evidence from the period is agin' you.

Many arguments on this topic start because the word "Trad" was not used contemporaneously to describe the clothing worn by college males during the 1950s and 1960s.* The phrase used by young men of the period was, "The Ivy League Look" or just "Ivy." Therefore, "Trad" can mean anything one wants it to mean. Harris, the Gentlemen who introduced the word to this forum, tried to qualify its use, by stating, "Hello to all. I'm Harris. I live in the Northeastern U.S. and tend toward the American Look. Or Trad or whatever you wish to call it. Sack suits, tassel loafers, shetland crewnecks, Harris Tweeds, madras, etc. I am interested in knowing how many forum members have stuck with this look--the J. Press-Brooks-Andover Shop crowd." Despite the boundaries Harris tried to set, the term has escaped into the wild and now means (mostly) whatever one wants it to mean. It is not a useful word to me, but then, I am so old that I'm stuck using "Ivy" as my descriptor for the style. You know, the old dogs/new tricks thing. 

In any event, using words like "Untrue" and phrases like "...we need not spread such lies" are absolutes. In my humble opinion, they do not further open discussion or the learning process for males trying to understand this most American of styles. They are also, in my opinion, wrong. 
______________________
*Chris Sharp of the Ivy Style blog and, I believe, a member here, recently found the first-ever contemporaneous use of "Trad" in advertisements run in the Cornell student newspaper during the heyday of the Ivy League Look. Absent many more such finds, I will assume its singular use is the exception that proves the rule.


----------



## gamma68

^ Excellent post, Billax.


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## SammyH

Stellar post, Billax.


----------



## jbarwick

J. Press had a wonderful navy Harris Tweed casual jacket in their 40% off section last week. It was still mid-$300's so I was waiting for the possibility of it moving to the 75% off category. Now the jacket is no where to be found on their website. Did I lose my chance on this wonderful jacket or is there another way to get to it? I am trying to find pictures to help with my predicament.

Edit: Jacket on the left in this Tumblr link: https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8e941aP1k1qbns65.jpg


----------



## Billax

jbarwick said:


> J. Press had a wonderful navy Harris Tweed casual jacket in their 40% off section last week. It was still mid-$300's so I was waiting for the possibility of it moving to the 75% off category. Now the jacket is no where to be found on their website. Did I lose my chance on this wonderful jacket or is there another way to get to it? I am trying to find pictures to help with my predicament.
> 
> Edit: Jacket on the left in this Tumblr link: https://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8e941aP1k1qbns65.jpg


You can find the jacket at: https://www.jpressonline.com/unconstructed-jacket-navy/


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## jbarwick

Thank you. I seriously could not find it and was going crazy!


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## Reuben

Pretty much the most I'm going to be able to take in a pair of pants is ~2", right?


----------



## Chass3ur

New poster here, please forgive me if I am doing this incorrectly.

I have been cleaning out my dad's closet. In addition to various early 60s BB suits and an After Six late 50s shawl tuxedo, I have found a sport coat (tagged Harrison Payne) with a feature that I can not figure out. It is a camel hair 3/2 sack coat, with set-in side pockets and a set-in breast pocket - all with flaps. It has a black watch lining. Inside the left coat lapel, forward of the lining, are two large buttons spaced about 3 inches apart in a vertical orientation. Between the buttons, and secured by them, is a small strap of matching camel hair fabric. What is this strap's function?


----------



## Reuben

Chass3ur said:


> New poster here, please forgive me if I am doing this incorrectly.
> 
> I have been cleaning out my dad's closet. In addition to various early 60s BB suits and an After Six late 50s shawl tuxedo, I have found a sport coat (tagged Harrison Payne) with a feature that I can not figure out. It is a camel hair 3/2 sack coat, with set-in side pockets and a set-in breast pocket - all with flaps. It has a black watch lining. Inside the left coat lapel, forward of the lining, are two large buttons spaced about 3 inches apart in a vertical orientation. Between the buttons, and secured by them, is a small strap of matching camel hair fabric. What is this strap's function?


Any chance you could post photos? Sounds like it might be a throat latch to me. And if any of that's in a 46L and you're looking to pass it along, well, I'm your man!


----------



## Chass3ur

Thank you. I'll try to post a picture in a little bit. Sorry, all the jackets are 42R. They fit me without a ripple anywhere, and the sleeves are the perfect length (looong), which never happens without a bit of fuss. It's...almost disturbing.

So, why was After Six making single vent tuxes in in the 50s? I've looked elsewhere on line, and others of that vintage appear to have a single vent as well.


----------



## Reuben

Chass3ur said:


> Thank you. I'll try to post a picture in a little bit. Sorry, all the jackets are 42R. They fit me without a ripple anywhere, and the sleeves are the perfect length (looong), which never happens without a bit of fuss. It's...almost disturbing.
> 
> So, why was After Six making single vent tuxes in in the 50s? I've looked elsewhere on line, and others of that vintage appear to have a single vent as well.


Just a head's up, you'll need to upload your pictures to a site like imgur and then link them in your post using the little icon in the toolbar to the right in the reply window, next to the two little globes. Go to the from URL tab and unclick the "host the image" option.

Edit: Also, camel hair with blackwatch lining? Sounds awesome!


----------



## ArtVandalay

I'm not a suit wearer but I need a pair of shoes to wear with a navy suit. Found this pair of burgundy Park Avenues and was thinking of putting in an offer. Do these look like they're in decent enough shape to wear with a suit (after some shoe cream and a good shine, that is)? I'm not so sure...


----------



## Reuben

ArtVandalay said:


> I'm not a suit wearer but I need a pair of shoes to wear with a navy suit. Found this pair of burgundy Park Avenues and was thinking of putting in an offer. Do these look like they're in decent enough shape to wear with a suit (after some shoe cream and a good shine, that is)? I'm not so sure...
> 
> View attachment 10566
> View attachment 10567


They look like they'd clean up well enough to me. I might try giving them a coat of black polish to cut the redness a touch, but I can't see any reason they wouldn't work with a navy suit.


----------



## Chass3ur

Well, after looking at this again, it is not 3 roll 2, it is 3 button, and the strap is made of the tartan lining fabric. I was surprised to see that the undersides of the exterior flaps and the pocket linings are also tartan- seems like a lot of bother. As to the strap- I don't see any other buttons on the opposite lapel exterior or interior.


----------



## SammyH

What do you guys think of having a few additional button downs m-t-m that are in broad cloth - or in something finer/thinner - for a bit of a dressier look? Assuming I can still get the tailor to achieve the collar roll, that is. lol.


----------



## Reuben

Chass3ur said:


> Well, after looking at this again, it is not 3 roll 2, it is 3 button, and the strap is made of the tartan lining fabric. I was surprised to see that the undersides of the exterior flaps and the pocket linings are also tartan- seems like a lot of bother. As to the strap- I don't see any other buttons on the opposite lapel exterior or interior.


Looks like maybe a 3/2.5 roll maybe? No clue on the strap, but that is jacket is awesome! Wear it in good health.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tilton

Chass3ur said:


> Well, after looking at this again, it is not 3 roll 2, it is 3 button, and the strap is made of the tartan lining fabric. I was surprised to see that the undersides of the exterior flaps and the pocket linings are also tartan- seems like a lot of bother. As to the strap- I don't see any other buttons on the opposite lapel exterior or interior.


Check up under the collar of the jacket to see if there are button or small holes where the buttons were removed. Almost 100% certain it is a throat latch - I've found jackets with similar throat latch storage.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Reuben said:


> They look like they'd clean up well enough to me. I might try giving them a coat of black polish to cut the redness a touch, but I can't see any reason they wouldn't work with a navy suit.


I went ahead and bought them, I'll give the black polish a try and see how they come out. Thanks!


----------



## Jovan

SammyH said:


> What do you guys think of having a few additional button downs m-t-m that are in broad cloth - or in something finer/thinner - for a bit of a dressier look? Assuming I can still get the tailor to achieve the collar roll, that is. lol.


What shirts do you have already?


----------



## Barnavelt

Since most well made trousers have around that much extra fabric in the seat to let out, I would say that, yes, in general that is probably the limit. However, it could be different on a case by case basis depending on what your tailor says. I had a pair of very nice tartan trousers I sold to someone or the other because they were too big for me and even though I desperately wanted my tailor to butcher them into submission so they would fit, the rear pockets would have been almost touching.



Reuben said:


> Pretty much the most I'm going to be able to take in a pair of pants is ~2", right?


----------



## SammyH

Jovan said:


> What shirts do you have already?


I have 5 m-t-m, liner-less collared Oxford Cloth Button downs that are white; one blue and one pink in the same. I also have a m-t-m sea island cotton tab collar.

So I was thinking that I might get a few broadcloth to wear with my suit - they would be a little dressier, but not quite as dressy as the tab collared one.


----------



## Takai

I found myself at one of the high end consignment shops this morning trying on a couple of suits. The first from Ede and Ravenscroft, it had 4 royal warrants listed on the inside label, so Im not sure when that would date it to, as I didnt think to snap a picture for some reason. The Second was a Belvest s100. Let me know what you think of these in terms of fit and what not.

Ede And Ravenscroft- Charcoal Flannel
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Windwalker-Wind/IMAG0701_zpseba169fd.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Windwalker-Wind/IMAG0704_zpscf5d91c7.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Windwalker-Wind/IMAG0709_zpsa3d7c8ef.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Windwalker-Wind/IMAG0705_zps1fef6a6f.jpg

Belvest
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Windwalker-Wind/IMAG0706_zpsa049974a.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Windwalker-Wind/IMAG0707_zps893e0f95.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Windwalker-Wind/IMAG0708_zps4d2dc981.jpg

My thoughts:
Both pants need work, as they were both definately a 32, though it looked like there was enough to let them out a bit. The Belvest is new with the pockets still stitched closed, the Ede is in great shape. The Ede was 78$, the Belvest was 98$


----------



## Jovan

Takai, I personally think a new thread is needed for this sort of discussion.


----------



## Takai

Jovan said:


> Takai, I personally think a new thread is needed for this sort of discussion.


I wasnt sure, so I figured I'd start off here. I will get one posted here in a few minutes, thank you


----------



## Tilton

Takai, it looks like the ER is a hair too big in the shoulders and it too long. The Belvest looks like a good fit to me everywhere except overall length; it too looks a bit too long.

IIRC you're a relatively small guy, so I'd guess those are regular lengths and you probably need a short.


----------



## Jovan

^ Can always buy them and sell here to guys they fit though.


----------



## bigwordprof

Is there somewhere other than beautiesltd.com where I can find freestyle boys' bow ties? I have a friend who enjoys wearing them and want to give one as a gift for his soon-to-be-born son.


----------



## SammyH

Hey guys, under jackets/blazers I've only worn thin cashmere sweaters. When I put on a shetland and try to wear it under jacket it seems a bit tight - uncomfortably so. Do people have a larger jacket that they wear shetlands under or just put up with the relatively tight fit?


----------



## Tilton

SammyH said:


> Hey guys, under jackets/blazers I've only worn thin cashmere sweaters. When I put on a shetland and try to wear it under jacket it seems a bit tight - uncomfortably so. Do people have a larger jacket that they wear shetlands under or just put up with the relatively tight fit?


Yes, both.


----------



## CMDC

Yup. I've got a JPress flannel blazer that is too big without a sweater but great with a chunky sweater underneath.

I should also mention though that at last count there are 8 blazers in my closet--which is clearly a sign of some type of illness.



SammyH said:


> Hey guys, under jackets/blazers I've only worn thin cashmere sweaters. When I put on a shetland and try to wear it under jacket it seems a bit tight - uncomfortably so. Do people have a larger jacket that they wear shetlands under or just put up with the relatively tight fit?


----------



## jwooten

SammyH said:


> Hey guys, under jackets/blazers I've only worn thin cashmere sweaters. When I put on a shetland and try to wear it under jacket it seems a bit tight - uncomfortably so. Do people have a larger jacket that they wear shetlands under or just put up with the relatively tight fit?


Both. I also have thinner shetlands to wear with jackets.


----------



## universitystripe

I'm almost too embarrassed to ask this, but I cannot find a clear answer...

Cuffed chinos--I purchase mine from J. Crew cuffed. Am I supposed to physically fold the cuff back once? 

:icon_scratch:


----------



## bigwordprof

The cuff is at the bottom of the pant, folded and sewn on each side in a semi-fixed position. Once cuffed, there is no additional work to be done.


----------



## C. Sharp

There is historical precedence for that so I would say go head if it is something you want.



SammyH said:


> What do you guys think of having a few additional button downs m-t-m that are in broad cloth - or in something finer/thinner - for a bit of a dressier look? Assuming I can still get the tailor to achieve the collar roll, that is. lol.


----------



## loarbmhs

I would not. For decades, all I wore were pinpoint oxford button down shirts. And then I got it through my head that a spread collar, with moderate points and a moderate spread, was a much more elegant look. Suggest that if you go with some broadcloth suits, make them up the way the fabric was intended: as a spread collar. I promise...once you try one, you'll never wear an ocbd with a suit again.



SammyH said:


> I have 5 m-t-m, liner-less collared Oxford Cloth Button downs that are white; one blue and one pink in the same. I also have a m-t-m sea island cotton tab collar.
> 
> So I was thinking that I might get a few broadcloth to wear with my suit - they would be a little dressier, but not quite as dressy as the tab collared one.


----------



## SammyH

loarbmhs said:


> I would not. For decades, all I wore were pinpoint oxford button down shirts. And then I got it through my head that a spread collar, with moderate points and a moderate spread, was a much more elegant look. Suggest that if you go with some broadcloth suits, make them up the way the fabric was intended: as a spread collar. I promise...once you try one, you'll never wear an ocbd with a suit again.


Thanks - I don't know why but I'm a bit allergic to those sorts of collars (I've tried them.) They just look cheesy to me, no offense meant at all.

I love OCBD with suits and prolly will stick with them. Like my sartorial hero, lol 

The only caveat is that I have a really high metabolism and am frequently very hot, even in the winter. And oxford cloth can get a bit stifling.


----------



## SammyH

Incidentally, what do you guys think about a more casual unconstructed/unstructured jacket like this: https://www.jpressonline.com/unconstructed-jacket-navy/

Do you get much use out of them? I really like the casualness of them.

Many of them seem very "fitted" and "slim" unfortunately - and I am a hockey player/sprinter with a very athletic/muscular build and won't fit into something like the above. Any suggestions for unstructured jackets that have a bit more room? If not, I may go m-t-m for something like this, or would you counsel against that?

Thanks!


----------



## loarbmhs

"Cheesy" is not the word I expected you to use. Take a look at any Savile Row tailor's site. You will not see a single button down collar--only spread collars. I'm not suggesting you go with as wide a spread as some of the British ones you'll see, just a moderate one. But for the same reason you'll never (I hope!) see a tuxedo paired with a button down collar, spread collars are dressier/less casual than a button downs, which is why I now prefer them.


SammyH said:


> Thanks - I don't know why but I'm a bit allergic to those sorts of collars (I've tried them.) They just look cheesy to me, no offense meant at all.
> 
> I love OCBD with suits and prolly will stick with them. Like my sartorial hero, lol
> 
> The only caveat is that I have a really high metabolism and am frequently very hot, even in the winter. And oxford cloth can get a bit stifling.


----------



## firedancer

SammyH said:


> Incidentally, what do you guys think about a more casual unconstructed/unstructured jacket like this: https://www.jpressonline.com/unconstructed-jacket-navy/
> 
> Do you get much use out of them? I really like the casualness of them.
> 
> Many of them seem very "fitted" and "slim" unfortunately - and I am a hockey player/sprinter with a very athletic/muscular build and won't fit into something like the above. Any suggestions for unstructured jackets that have a bit more room? If not, I may go m-t-m for something like this, or would you counsel against that?
> 
> Thanks!


I have quite the penchant for unstructured jackets and own a few.

Try them on for size, I think you can find something that works. 
Right now I'm really digging the boglioli k jacket. Not traditional details but not over the top.


----------



## Shaver

loarbmhs said:


> I would not. For decades, all I wore were pinpoint oxford button down shirts. And then I got it through my head that a spread collar, with moderate points and a moderate spread, was a much more elegant look. Suggest that if you go with some broadcloth suits [sic], make them up the way the fabric was intended: as a spread collar. I promise...once you try one, you'll never wear an ocbd with a suit again.


Fine fellow, I like the cut of your gib.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I've owned unlined collar broadcloth BD shirts. They are incredibly difficult to iron. I happen to like a BD collar in the right context, but I like them best on heavy oxford. I have a couple of pinpoint BDs, too, but I'm likely to move towards spread collars when I'm in long ties.


----------



## tigerpac

Is it appropriate to scowl at the people who keep asking me why I wear a pocket square?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

tigerpac said:


> Is it appropriate to scowl at the people who keep asking me why I wear a pocket square?


When I got this question (I no longer do), I went with "because I'm wearing all of this by choice," which worked alright.


----------



## Jovan

Pinpoint and broadcloth button-downs are appropriate with a regular worsted suit. Oxford a little less so, I generally save them for sport coats.


----------



## Fading Fast

Jovan said:


> Pinpoint and broadcloth button-downs are appropriate with a regular worsted suit. Oxford a little less so, I generally save them for sport coats.


I agree with this completely. But having worked on Wall Street for several decades, OCBD with a suit is done all the time and at every level and it always looks a bit off to me.


----------



## tigerpac

That's a much nicer and more thought out answer than my snarky responses have been thus far.



Youthful Repp-robate said:


> When I got this question (I no longer do), I went with "because I'm wearing all of this by choice," which worked alright.


----------



## mjo_1

Quick and potentially dumb shoe size question: I know that I'm a 9.5D in the Alden aberdeen and hampton lasts. According to the chart and members here, I would size down to a 9 in the van last. When doing this, do most of you go up a width or keep the same?


----------



## DLW

I would like to know if a monk shoe is traditional style shoe, and what traditional attire would one wear with a monk shoe?


----------



## Patrick06790

tigerpac said:


> Is it appropriate to scowl at the people who keep asking me why I wear a pocket square?


Try kissing them.

It's great fun - and great exercise, too, what with the sudden sprints to safety.


----------



## Patrick06790

Tweed McVay said:


> I would like to know if a monk shoe is traditional style shoe, and what traditional attire would one wear with a monk shoe?


Monk straps are an accepted part of Our Thing, although there are those among us who would not want to be seen dead in a ditch in them.

I have a pair of Alden cordovan monks that are very elegant. I wear them with suits or with dressy pants. There's a pair of Ferragamo snuff suede monks I wear in the summer sometimes, usually with gabs or linen pants.

Then I have two pairs, in black and medium brown calfskin, of monks from Lands End from a few years back. They were inexpensive to start with and were quickly on super-duper sale. I wear these about once a year, if I remember. They could go with chinos or jeans on someone else, but not me. They are size 9D and run a little big, if anyone's interested.

Monks are a style that has been glommed onto by agents of GICAMP (Gigantic International Conspiracy Against Me Personally). You can spot GICAMP agents by their shrunken jackets and trousers, often with three-day beards and what we used to call "dippity-doo" in their hair. For some reason the monk strap really appeals to this type.

But there's no reason a classic monk strap shoe should not be part of your wardrobe. Stick with single buckle, though - two is just too Miles Standish.

Like the Norwich on this page:


----------



## Fading Fast

Patrick06790 said:


> Monk straps are an accepted part of Our Thing, although there are those among us who would not want to be seen dead in a ditch in them.
> 
> I have a pair of Alden cordovan monks that are very elegant. I wear them with suits or with dressy pants. There's a pair of Ferragamo snuff suede monks I wear in the summer sometimes, usually with gabs or linen pants.
> 
> Then I have two pairs, in black and medium brown calfskin, of monks from Lands End from a few years back. They were inexpensive to start with and were quickly on super-duper sale. I wear these about once a year, if I remember. They could go with chinos or jeans on someone else, but not me. They are size 9D and run a little big, if anyone's interested.
> 
> Monks are a style that has been glommed onto by agents of GICAMP (Gigantic International Conspiracy Against Me Personally). You can spot GICAMP agents by their shrunken jackets and trousers, often with three-day beards and what we used to call "dippity-doo" in their hair. For some reason the monk strap really appeals to this type.
> 
> But there's no reason a classic monk strap shoe should not be part of your wardrobe. Stick with single buckle, though - two is just too Miles Standish.
> 
> Like the Norwich on this page:


GICAMP - lol - very funny.


----------



## SammyH

So, I have some clifford collar shirts from a few years ago still in my closet; pretty much exclusively worn with chinos, with or without sports jackets. I wouldn't wear them with a business suit, or to anything remotely formal, but I rather like them. People here and elsewhere have described them as "lifeless" - but actually, methinks if they're worn correctly they have a bit of play in them, and DO NOT lie dead flat. Best with narrowish ties and bow ties. Also, I am one of those people who looks better in smaller collars I think.

"Go"? Or, "no go Sammy"?









Sorry, I can't seem to straighten myself out, lol :tongue2:


----------



## SammyH

One other question, this (silk) jacket is from my father. It's in excellent shape, and a pretty decent jacket, esp. for free, though a little bit too structured in the shoulder to my liking, but I'll prolly wear it a bit. Do you think my nantucket reds would go with it? Or, is the rust in the jacket too jarring against the pant? I'm asking because my girlfriend says i'm color blind, lol


----------



## ArtVandalay

This might be a stupid question, but has anyone ever had the sleeves let out on a Sterlingwear Peacoat? I wouldn't even think it's possible but I figured I'd ask here...


----------



## DLW

Patrick06790 said:


> Monk straps are an accepted part of Our Thing, although there are those among us who would not want to be seen dead in a ditch in them.
> 
> I have a pair of Alden cordovan monks that are very elegant. I wear them with suits or with dressy pants. There's a pair of Ferragamo snuff suede monks I wear in the summer sometimes, usually with gabs or linen pants.
> 
> Then I have two pairs, in black and medium brown calfskin, of monks from Lands End from a few years back. They were inexpensive to start with and were quickly on super-duper sale. I wear these about once a year, if I remember. They could go with chinos or jeans on someone else, but not me. They are size 9D and run a little big, if anyone's interested.
> 
> Monks are a style that has been glommed onto by agents of GICAMP (Gigantic International Conspiracy Against Me Personally). You can spot GICAMP agents by their shrunken jackets and trousers, often with three-day beards and what we used to call "dippity-doo" in their hair. For some reason the monk strap really appeals to this type.
> 
> But there's no reason a classic monk strap shoe should not be part of your wardrobe. Stick with single buckle, though - two is just too Miles Standish.
> 
> Like the Norwich on this page:


Thanks for the reply and the laugh. I had forgotten about Dippity-Doo.


----------



## orange fury

Break check (pun definitely intended):

im wearing these pants for the first time today and noticed the length is almost in negative break territory. It doesn't bother me too much, but I was thinking about possibly seeing if my tailor could let them out a 1/2". I wanted to get other eyes to look at it before doing so:



(also, the pants aren't a pink IRL as in the photo...)


----------



## SammyH

SammyH said:


> One other question, this (silk) jacket is from my father. It's in excellent shape, and a pretty decent jacket, esp. for free, though a little bit too structured in the shoulder to my liking, but I'll prolly wear it a bit. Do you think my nantucket reds would go with it? Or, is the rust in the jacket too jarring against the pant? I'm asking because my girlfriend says i'm color blind, lol
> 
> View attachment 10655


That's a silk/wool blend jacket Sammy and I say it prolly goes together fairly well. Would rather see those pants with a blue blazer perhaps.


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> Break check (pun definitely intended):
> 
> im wearing these pants for the first time today and noticed the length is almost in negative break territory. It doesn't bother me too much, but I was thinking about possibly seeing if my tailor could let them out a 1/2". I wanted to get other eyes to look at it before doing so:


If the pants are cotton, stitch marks will be visible if they are let out. Much better to take in than let out on non-wool fabric.


----------



## orange fury

gamma68 said:


> If the pants are cotton, stitch marks will be visible if they are let out. Much better to take in than let out on non-wool fabric.


Theyre cotton, so the length looks okay as is?


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> Theyre cotton, so the length looks okay as is?


I personally like to have a little break with no cuffs. For me, those pants would be a bit short. But there are others who like no break at all. There is another thread running with enthusiastic debate regarding cuffs/no cuffs, break/no break.

If the current length doesn't bother you, then wear them happily.


----------



## Tilton

SammyH said:


> That's a silk/wool blend jacket Sammy and I say it prolly goes together fairly well. Would rather see those pants with a blue blazer perhaps.


Glad that cleared itself up, but kind of weird to hold an online conversation with yourself.

That said, I wouldn't wear that jacket with those pants.


----------



## SammyH

Tilton said:


> Glad that cleared itself up, but kind of weird to hold an online conversation with yourself.
> 
> That said, I wouldn't wear that jacket with those pants.


said response to myself 'twas written with tongue firmly planted in cheek. : )

Yeah, I agree, thanks.


----------



## orange fury

gamma68 said:


> I personally like to have a little break with no cuffs. For me, those pants would be a bit short. But there are others who like no break at all. There is another thread running with enthusiastic debate regarding cuffs/no cuffs, break/no break.
> 
> If the current length doesn't bother you, then wear them happily.


Ill probably leave it alone then. It was a little shorter than what I'm used to, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't pushing the boundary of ridiculous. I guess looking at the pic it's firmly in the "no break" range


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> Ill probably leave it alone then. It was a little shorter than what I'm used to, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't pushing the boundary of ridiculous. I guess looking at the pic it's firmly in the "no break" range


Yes, I don't see any break at all. You may want to ask your tailor about letting out the pants, just to confirm what can and can't be done. But I've always been told that stitch marks will remain visible on cotton fabric.


----------



## Spin Evans

It's not so much the stitch marks that will remain, it's the &#@% crease line. I quite like how the no-break looks there, especially since they're nantcuket reds. It's when you start seeing ankle bone that you are pushing things.


----------



## Cheuk

New poster (but longtime visitor reader)! Finally stepping away from the wall and into the fray  (do let me know if this is not the best place to post such a question)

Need to get a handful of shirts soon for my new business casual job. Before purchasing, want to be sure I am getting the best off-the-rack size. Here is a Brooks Bros. OCBD extra-slim fit in 16" neck, 34" sleeve. Do you think this is the right size for me? What should I tell tailor to do? Many thanks!

Just background if it's helpful: I'm 5'10, ~180 lbs, 42 coat, 32 waist-30 inseam pants


----------



## orange fury

Spin Evans said:


> It's not so much the stitch marks that will remain, it's the &#@% crease line. I quite like how the no-break looks there, especially since they're nantcuket reds. It's when you start seeing ankle bone that you are pushing things.


i went ahead and did a couple full body shots for context to see if opinions stays the same, I think the biggest concern I have is the way it looks from the front. If the tailor can do anything I may see about a 1/2" to 3/4" increase, if it's doable. The reason I'm asking about this so much is that I have to go to the tailor to pick up some stuff anyways, and I was considering dropping these off while I was there


----------



## Tilton

First thing I'd do is put a mean crease in them and then see how I liked them. They won't flare off to the sides of your shoes when creased.

Side note: What older PRL pant name are those closest to? The rise looks to be about what I like. I'm wearing a pair of Prestons today (which I haven't worn in a few months) and holy low-rise! Straight to Goodwill they will go!


----------



## Fading Fast

Spin Evans said:


> It's not so much the stitch marks that will remain, it's the &#@% crease line. I quite like how the no-break looks there, especially since they're nantcuket reds. It's when you start seeing ankle bone that you are pushing things.


For Nantucket Reds - already a very Preppy thing - having a "negative break" (great phrase) is fine - J.Press would be in heaven (both the store's tailor and, if he was still with us, the founder) and is fully consistent with arrant Preppy-ness. On pants like that, if you do choose to let them down, the tailor should be able to stitch / finish it in a way that might make the bottom look naturally finished so as to mitigate the line (especially since the pants are new and haven't been pressed or "age" yet) as pant's like that should have some border or other something to make them look finished at the bottom hem.


----------



## orange fury

Tilton said:


> First thing I'd do is put a mean crease in them and then see how I liked them. They won't flare off to the sides of your shoes when creased.
> 
> Side note: What older PRL pant name are those closest to? The rise looks to be about what I like. I'm wearing a pair of Prestons today (which I haven't worn in a few months) and holy low-rise! Straight to Goodwill they will go!


Theyre the PRL classic fit Suffield Preppy Chino. I actually have the Preston fit seersucker pants and didn't think the rise was all that bad, but I'll update my thought on those when they get back from the tailor lol


----------



## orange fury

Update: checked with the tailor and he advised against letting out the hem because it would create 2 faded stripes: one at the current pressing and one at the current stitching. However, two of the other pairs I had in there (another pair of RL reds and a pair of RL seersucker that were about the same length) can be let out 3/4" with no problem. I'll just wash these, press out the crease down the side, an imagine that the founder of J Press is smiling upon me lol


----------



## ArtVandalay

I think that length looks great. Just throw a crease in those, like Tilton suggested, to remedy the side-flaring and they'll look fab.


----------



## Lord Elgin

Anyone know more about these Florsheim Royal Imperial shoes? I bought them from ebay and didn't see then from the seller's pics that the toe cap and ankle are of different grade of leather and sturdier than the rest of the shoes. Is it just the design or is there some inner meaning to this, i.e. are these intended for a more formal use (black tie, white tie), dancing, whatever? Any ideas? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Does it feel like a different tannage, or has it just aged differently as a result of flexing much less?

Those are _certainly_ not for white tie, and they'd be an unusual choice as a specific shoe for black tie. They're also seriously cool, and _seriously_ old. Give them a healthy coat of leather conditioner before you wear them.


----------



## sleepyinsanfran

Toe caps are generally hardedr that the rest of the shoe. For the difference in texture, my guess is that their previous owner laboriosly spit-shined the toe caps with several layers of polish while the rest of teh shoe was polished normally. You can try washing the shoe with saddle soap to get the polish off, before evenly polishing them if you prefer that look.



Lord Elgin said:


> Anyone know more about these Florsheim Royal Imperial shoes? I bought them from ebay and didn't see then from the seller's pics that the toe cap and ankle are of different grade of leather and sturdier than the rest of the shoes. Is it just the design or is there some inner meaning to this, i.e. are these intended for a more formal use (black tie, white tie), dancing, whatever? Any ideas? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Lord Elgin

Thanks for your comments, gents! The pics don't actually show it as well as in live, but the ankle part (or is it called "counter" in English?) is of same leather as the toe cap, and these both are harder than the rest of the shoe. I don't recall seeing or noticing before on any other shoes something like this, and it just made me curious. And yes, they probably are very old, but the leather is in good condition and also I did apply a generous dose of conditioner.


----------



## Himself

ArtVandalay said:


> I think that length looks great. Just throw a crease in those, like Tilton suggested, to remedy the side-flaring and they'll look fab.


I agree, especially for casual pants. Being shrunk to highwater length (which by no means these are) just adds to a well-worn look.


----------



## mhj

Yesterday I won this J. Press brown herringbone sport coat *

*After paying for it I noticed that there was no mention in the posting about it being Harris Tweed which is what I was looking for. Does Press sell such tweeds that are not Harris or was it an omission on the part of the seller?

Is this anything to be obsessed about, I have confidence that anything with the J. Press label will be of high quality?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Yes, Press sells many coats not made from Harris tweed. In fact, many of the tweeds they specialize in are lighter and brighter than most Harris tweeds, and though Harris tweeds are often simple herringbones, I'd be surprised if Press had _never_ sold a non-Harris tweed in brown herringbone.

I like how that coat looks, and I'm willing to bet that it's good machine-woven tweed* -- nothing to turn up your nose at.

*Simply because generally if a tweed is hand-loomed, there tends to be a label bragging about it.


----------



## Billax

mhj said:


> Yesterday I won this J. Press brown herringbone sport coat *
> 
> *After paying for it I noticed that there was no mention in the posting about it being Harris Tweed which is what I was looking for. Does Press sell such tweeds that are not Harris or was it an omission on the part of the seller?
> 
> Is this anything to be obsessed about, I have confidence that anything with the J. Press label will be of high quality?


mhj, I believe a word or two is missing in your question. I'm assuming the sentence was intended to read ... and should I have confidence that ...? If so, a couple of thoughts. Great Tweeds are produced in a number of countries beside Scotland, with Ireland and Austria being but two examples. Even in Scotland, great Tweeds are woven by non-members of the Harris Tweed Group. Robert Noble is but one example.

J. Press sells sport coats using Tweed cloth from a number of makers: some from Harris, some from Robert Noble, some from Magee in Ireland. Depending on the species of sheep, and the composition of fibers other than wool, the 'hand' of different Tweeds will be very different. For example, J. Press has long sold sport coats made from a handwoven cloth known as 'Donegal Mist' which consists of 60% Wool, 35% Kid Mohair, and 5% Cashmere, with an incredibly soft hand and halo coming from the hair of the Kid Mohair. The choices in handle are almost as wide as the choices in texture, pattern, and weave.

Depending on the constructor Press uses to manufacture the sport coat, you may, or may not, like the shoulders, but only you can determine whether it meets your test of high quality.
______________
YRr, I was writing my response as you posted yours. Didn't mean to step on your response, which was very good.


----------



## mhj

Thanks guys for the thorough answers to my question. Unfortunately, I'm not anywhere near a Press store to know their inventory and their website I'm sure shows only a fraction. My familiarity is from the few pieces from the forum and eBay that I have. I received some hand me downs from my father as a teenager who was a customer (I don't know how, he didn't live near a store and wasn't a big mail order shopper).

In any case the jacket shipped today and I'll see what I'm getting in a few days.


----------



## Himself

Cheuk said:


> Need to get a handful of shirts soon for my new business casual job. Before purchasing, want to be sure I am getting the best off-the-rack size. Here is a Brooks Bros. OCBD extra-slim fit in 16" neck, 34" sleeve. Do you think this is the right size for me? What should I tell tailor to do?


Cheuk,

I can see pulling at the top button and across the shoulders. So BB Slim might be a better fit for you than Extra Slim. Shoulder/chest fit is their main difference.

Also, did you upsize half an inch in the neck for shrinkage?


----------



## gamma68

Himself said:


> Cheuk,
> 
> I can see pulling at the top button and across the shoulders. So BB Slim might be a better fit for you than Extra Slim. Shoulder/chest fit is their main difference.
> 
> Also, did you upsize half an inch in the neck for shrinkage?


If it's the must-iron BB OCBD, I'd recommend sizing up .5 inch in the neck and 1 inch in the sleeves. In my experience, those shirts shrink at the neck and sleeve.


----------



## sum1else

*quick tux question*

Quick question:

I have a nicely fitted black tux. My custom formal shirt without a covered placket just arrived (ie, I need to wear studs).
I am of course wearing a black self-tied bowtie. I also have suspenders in the closet.

My custom vest is not going to be in for several weeks and I have a wedding in four days.

Do I need to go out and buy a relatively inexpensive a cummerbund or vest? Or can I just go with suspenders and the shirt?

My concern is that three studs followed by buttons on the lower portion of my torso will look silly. It's going to be a very fancy affair. Thoughts? Thanks


----------



## orange fury

sum1else said:


> Quick question:
> 
> I have a nicely fitted black tux. My custom formal shirt without a covered placket just arrived (ie, I need to wear studs).
> I am of course wearing a black self-tied bowtie. I also have suspenders in the closet.
> 
> My custom vest is not going to be in for several weeks and I have a wedding in four days.
> 
> Do I need to go out and buy a relatively inexpensive a cummerbund or vest? Or can I just go with suspenders and the shirt?
> 
> My concern is that three studs followed by buttons on the lower portion of my torso will look silly. It's going to be a very fancy affair. Thoughts? Thanks


First: congrats! I got married on March 1, best decision I ever made. Second: welcome to the forum! Third: no vest, do the cummerbund. The cummerbund will cover the bottom button, and your jacket is supposed to remain closed anyways, so the only thing you'll see are the studs. Just make sure the cummerbund matches the bow tie (ie both black satin or both black grosgrain), and they should match the facing of your jacket lapels. It's a super grainy cell phone picture, but this is what I wore for mine:



Note te that you only barely see the top of the fourth stud. The idea with the cummerbund is that it covers your waist and doesn't expose your white shirt if the bottom of your jacket opens.


----------



## mhj

The jacket arrived today and it is not HT. It's really nice and fits perfectly out of the box. There are no labels with any information as to origin of the cloth, what JP line it is from or anything else.

It's definitely a lot lighter in weight than any of my current HT jackets. My original plan was to sell my current HT brown herringbone, which is a little large in the shoulders on me and as heavy as a carpet, but since the new one is quite a bit different I have to decide now whether to keep or sell the old one.



Billax said:


> mhj, I believe a word or two is missing in your question. I'm assuming the sentence was intended to read ... and should I have confidence that ...? If so, a couple of thoughts. Great Tweeds are produced in a number of countries beside Scotland, with Ireland and Austria being but two examples. Even in Scotland, great Tweeds are woven by non-members of the Harris Tweed Group. Robert Noble is but one example.
> 
> J. Press sells sport coats using Tweed cloth from a number of makers: some from Harris, some from Robert Noble, some from Magee in Ireland. Depending on the species of sheep, and the composition of fibers other than wool, the 'hand' of different Tweeds will be very different. For example, J. Press has long sold sport coats made from a handwoven cloth known as 'Donegal Mist' which consists of 60% Wool, 35% Kid Mohair, and 5% Cashmere, with an incredibly soft hand and halo coming from the hair of the Kid Mohair. The choices in handle are almost as wide as the choices in texture, pattern, and weave.
> 
> Depending on the constructor Press uses to manufacture the sport coat, you may, or may not, like the shoulders, but only you can determine whether it meets your test of high quality.
> ______________
> YRr, I was writing my response as you posted yours. Didn't mean to step on your response, which was very good.


----------



## Fading Fast

mhj said:


> Thanks guys for the thorough answers to my question. Unfortunately, I'm not anywhere near a Press store to know their inventory and their website I'm sure shows only a fraction. My familiarity is from the few pieces from the forum and eBay that I have. I received some hand me downs from my father as a teenager who was a customer (I don't know how, he didn't live near a store and wasn't a big mail order shopper).
> 
> In any case the jacket shipped today and I'll see what I'm getting in a few days.


I truly wouldn't give any thought to if it is Harris Tweed or not for the reasons others (meaningfully more knowledgeable than I) have stated and because my experience is that there are great non-Harris Tweed, Tweeds. I own a Brooks Brothers tweed sport coat bought at BB in the late 80s (it is not Harris Tweed) and it is the best tweed coat I have ever owned (and I've owned many). It is a medium grey herringbone that has seen 25+ years of service and still looks great (I've gotten compliments on it recently). If the coat comes and you like its look and feel and it seems well made (which it should if its Press - but not guaranteed), then enjoy it.

Over time, try to develop a feel and eye for well-made garments and quality materials as I've found that most stores are, at least sometimes, inconsistent in their quality and you need to judge each piece on its own merits. Brooks Brothers is horribly inconsistent as I have seen (and bought) some outstanding clothes from them and have seen (and used to have) bought some terrible garments from them. The same could be said for Press. I don't have any bad Ralph Lauren (Blue Label and up) experiences, but I still examine each piece before I buy it.

It looks like a great jacket, enjoy it and let us know what you think when you get it.


----------



## mhj

I also have great tweeds that aren't Harris but when buying on eBay I use brands as sign of quality which you can't pick up from the photos. In fact when thrifting the HTs jump out at me from the Haggar's and other junk.

The jacket did arrive and it is great, it's a perfect fit besides.


----------



## UnivStripe

Looking for advice on a shoe purchase. Alden Long Wing Tassel Burgundy Calfskin:


----------



## Reuben

Nope. It's a frankenshoe, neither longwing nor tassel loafer.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Himself said:


> Cheuk,
> 
> I can see pulling at the top button and across the shoulders. So BB Slim might be a better fit for you than Extra Slim. Shoulder/chest fit is their main difference.
> 
> Also, did you upsize half an inch in the neck for shrinkage?


I'm wearing a must-iron OCBD, 17-34, and the cuffs fall slightly short of where they should, I think, just as in this photo (nothing of the shirt is visible below the cuff of a sport coat). In quite a few selfies I've seen here, people are clearly slumping their shoulders on purpose. Put your shoulders back a bit, and they'll pull the cuffs up further, meaning that you might want more room in the chest and neck.


----------



## efdll

UnivStripe said:


> Looking for advice on a shoe purchase. Alden Long Wing Tassel Burgundy Calfskin:


In theory, there's nothing wrong, for all the elements are traditional, and I believe such shoes have been around for a while. In practice, they present very, very busy. I would paraphrase a bespoke tailor friend on a different style, spectators: "They call too much attention to your feet." On the other hand, I imagine there are some who could carry them off, and perhaps you are one of them. Personally, if I could get them for a song, as in thrifting, I'd snap them up and wear them very occasionally. Otherwise, I'd pass.


----------



## blue suede shoes

*Himself*


Originally Posted by *Cheuk* https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?p=1524897#post1524897 
Need to get a handful of shirts soon for my new business casual job. Before purchasing, want to be sure I am getting the best off-the-rack size. Here is a . extra-slim fit in 16" neck, 34" sleeve. Do you think this is the right size for me? What should I tell tailor to do?

Cheuk,

I can see pulling at the top button and across the shoulders. So BB Slim might be a better fit for you than Extra Slim. Shoulder/chest fit is their main difference.

Also, did you upsize half an inch in the neck for shrinkage?

A size 16 shirt is too small for you. You need either a 16 1/2 or a 17 as you need more room at the top. I would try either in extra slim, or possibly slim. I see why you chose extra slim because it is baggy at the waist. I have the same problem, and I will probably go with a made to measure next time.​


----------



## blue suede shoes

Lord Elgin said:


> Anyone know more about these Florsheim Royal Imperial shoes? I bought them from ebay and didn't see then from the seller's pics that the toe cap and ankle are of different grade of leather and sturdier than the rest of the shoes. Is it just the design or is there some inner meaning to this, i.e. are these intended for a more formal use (black tie, white tie), dancing, whatever? Any ideas? Thanks in advance!


Florsheim has several different lines or grades of shoes, and the Imperial line is presently the best grade. The Royal Imperial line was a step up from the Imperial line, making it the best of all of their grades, and was the line that they offered their shell cordovan shoes in when the Imperial and Royal Imperial were made in the US. I do not believe they have made the Royal Imperial grade as a regular line for many years, possibly even forty or fifty years, but in the past ten years they did produce some shoes for a short while they called the Royal Imperial which were the best grades of leather, aimed at competing with Allen Edmonds, and meant to uplift the Florsheim brand. What you have is a high quality shoe that should last a very long time.

As for the different textures of leather, Florsheim has always done that as a style/design feature on some of their Imperial and Royal Imperial shoes to set them off from their competitors and make them more stylish.


----------



## Reuben

Lord Elgin said:


> Anyone know more about these Florsheim Royal Imperial shoes? I bought them from ebay and didn't see then from the seller's pics that the toe cap and ankle are of different grade of leather and sturdier than the rest of the shoes. Is it just the design or is there some inner meaning to this, i.e. are these intended for a more formal use (black tie, white tie), dancing, whatever? Any ideas? Thanks in advance!


Probably stiffer/easier to shine at the cap and heel, but more flexible and comfortable through the rest.


----------



## MZWilson

Not sure if this jacket really qualifies as trad, but I picked it up on eBay recently and really do like it. That said, it's my lightest jacket and I'm struggling figuring out what color trousers it works well with. Suggestions?


----------



## Takai

Real quick fit check on this new blazer, will most likely make a new thread for the whole outfit, and I do unfortunately realize the sleeves are a touch too long, but no time to have that fixed before the event. (Didnt know about it till about an hour ago)


----------



## gamma68

Takai said:


> Real quick fit check on this new blazer, will most likely make a new thread for the whole outfit, and I do unfortunately realize the sleeves are a touch too long, but no time to have that fixed before the event. (Didnt know about it till about an hour ago)


It's not clear what your question is, but if you're wondering about fit, yes, the sleeves are too long. Actually, the entire jacket appears to be too long. So are your pants. See this infographic regarding proper fit:


----------



## Fading Fast

That is a very neat fit guide.


----------



## Kreiger

Lord Elgin said:


> Anyone know more about these Florsheim Royal Imperial shoes? I bought them from ebay and didn't see then from the seller's pics that the toe cap and ankle are of different grade of leather and sturdier than the rest of the shoes. Is it just the design or is there some inner meaning to this, i.e. are these intended for a more formal use (black tie, white tie), dancing, whatever? Any ideas? Thanks in advance!


Not much to add besides that I have a pair of the same shoes and they are amazing. I have a permanent ebay search going looking for more pairs in my size...they will all be mine!


----------



## SammyH

gamma68 said:


> It's not clear what your question is, but if you're wondering about fit, yes, the sleeves are too long. Actually, the entire jacket appears to be too long. So are your pants.


I agree with the jacket sleeves; and the pants.

I am curious, however, about why you say the jacket is too long. I was always taught that it's roughly where the fingers curl in at relaxed arm. This doesn't always work though; for example, I would be willing to be that Takai's arms are a wee bit on the shorter side; the proper length is ultimately determined by the jacket covering the buttocks, and no more, right?

You may be correct I am just wondering.


----------



## Ivygrad71

Sleeves, jacket and pants are all a poor fit. They are all far too long. 


Takai said:


> Real quick fit check on this new blazer, will most likely make a new thread for the whole outfit, and I do unfortunately realize the sleeves are a touch too long, but no time to have that fixed before the event. (Didnt know about it till about an hour ago)


----------



## Ivygrad71

SammyH said:


> I agree with the jacket sleeves; and the pants.
> 
> I am curious, however, about why you say the jacket is too long. I was always taught that it's roughly where the fingers curl in at relaxed arm. This doesn't always work though; for example, I would be willing to be that Takai's arms are a wee bit on the shorter side; the proper length is ultimately determined by the jacket covering the buttocks, and no more, right?
> 
> You may be correct I am just wondering.


What I am seeing is that his hands are not necessarily curled. I think if you saw him from a side view and his hands were curled, he'd be grabbing the fabric. I was taught long ago, by a great tailor at Brooks, that when you curl your hands the jacket should just barely touch the tips of those fingers or maybe just shy of them. That is clearly not the case with the fit of this jacket. I would guess that Takai would look far better in a "Short" length rather than a "Regular" length.


----------



## gamma68

Ivygrad71 said:


> What I am seeing is that his hands are not necessarily curled. I think if you saw him from a side view and his hands were curled, he'd be grabbing the fabric. I was taught long ago, by a great tailor at Brooks, that when you curl your hands the jacket should just barely touch the tips of those fingers or maybe just shy of them. That is clearly not the case with the fit of this jacket. I would guess that Takai would look far better in a "Short" length rather than a "Regular" length.


^ Agreed.

If in doubt about proper sizing, just pop in a BB store and ask them to measure you. They'll be happy to do so. Then you'll be armed with the proper measurements needed to find clothes that fit pretty well. And then, find a good tailor to tweak those garments to give you the very best fit.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Ivygrad71 said:


> What I am seeing is that his hands are not necessarily curled. I think if you saw him from a side view and his hands were curled, he'd be grabbing the fabric. I was taught long ago, by a great tailor at Brooks, that when you curl your hands the jacket should just barely touch the tips of those fingers or maybe just shy of them. That is clearly not the case with the fit of this jacket. I would guess that Takai would look far better in a "Short" length rather than a "Regular" length.


This seems contrary to advice I've seen elsewhere, that the cuff of the shirt should show below the end of the jacket's sleeve. OTOH the graphic above suggests a _shorter_ sleeve length than that. Can you elaborate?


----------



## Ivygrad71

SlideGuitarist said:


> This seems contrary to advice I've seen elsewhere, that the cuff of the shirt should show below the end of the jacket's sleeve. OTOH the graphic above suggests a _shorter_ sleeve length than that. Can you elaborate?


On my jackets I have about a 1/4 of an inch of shirt cuff peeking out from under the jacket sleeve. This seems to be what I have seen on men wearing well tailored jackets. YMMV.


----------



## gamma68

Ivygrad71 said:


> On my jackets I have about a 1/4 of an inch of shirt cuff peeking out from under the jacket sleeve. This seems to be what I have seen on men wearing well tailored jackets. YMMV.


Yep, and this advice also matches the graphic above.


----------



## knucklehead

Does anyone know how differentiate between Bill's M1s, M2s,and M3s if the tag is ripped out? Vinyl A. has a pair for sale. I'm on the skinny side and don't want to drown in M1s. Thanks!


----------



## Ivygrad71

Go to the Bills website. They show measurements for each pant, like leg opening, rise,etc...have VA measure the pair you are interested in and compare the two. M1's are easily recognizable due to their LONG rise.


----------



## Takai

Actually, to all those interested parties, that particular blazer is tagged a 38S, and measured, measures ~1/8th longer than my shortest BB Regent 38S.


----------



## gamma68

Takai said:


> Actually, to all those interested parties, that particular blazer is tagged a 38S, and measured, measures ~1/8th longer than my shortest BB Regent 38S.


From your photo, it appears that the shoulders of that double-breasted blazer fit well. Regardless of how it's tagged or what it measures, I would suggest taking it to a reputable tailor and asking what needs to be done (and what's possible) to achieve a perfect fit. A good tailor will become your best friend when it comes to getting a fit that makes you look GREAT.

One could buy the most expensive suit on the market, but if the fit is poor, it negatively impacts appearance. Better to buy a less expensive suit and invest a little money in tailoring to get an awesome fit.

This advice isn't meant to offend, so I hope it's not received negatively. I'd bet most of us have learned over time how important tailors are. A good one is like gold.


----------



## Takai

gamma68 said:


> From your photo, it appears that the shoulders of that double-breasted blazer fit well. Regardless of how it's tagged or what it measures, I would suggest taking it to a reputable tailor and asking what needs to be done (and what's possible) to achieve a perfect fit. A good tailor will become your best friend when it comes to getting a fit that makes you look GREAT.
> 
> One could buy the most expensive suit on the market, but if the fit is poor, it negatively impacts appearance. Better to buy a less expensive suit and invest a little money in tailoring to get an awesome fit.
> 
> This advice isn't meant to offend, so I hope it's not received negatively. I'd bet most of us have learned over time how important tailors are. A good one is like gold.


Actually to confirm I did take this particular jacket, on me, to my tailor tonight and asked her what she thought, and she seemed to think it fit me quite well. But again C'est La Vie.


----------



## gamma68

Takai said:


> Actually to confirm I did take this particular jacket, on me, to my tailor tonight and asked her what she thought, and she seemed to think it fit me quite well. But again C'est La Vie.


No offense, but if you're not showing at least 1/4" of shirt cuff when wearing the blazer, then the tailor is doing you a disservice.


----------



## Takai

gamma68 said:


> No offense, but if you're not showing at least 1/4" of shirt cuff when wearing the blazer, then the tailor is doing you a disservice.


 As I stated at the beginning of all of this, I did understand the sleeves were too long on the jacket, but I did not have enough time to have her shorten them.


----------



## Ivygrad71

I would maybe seek a second opinion, from a different tailor. Not being mean but Gamma is right, she is doing you a disservice. At the end of the day the only person that has to like how you look, dress, act, speak, etc..is you. Sartorial "rules" are just recommendations, the police wont show up for a violation of them. However, the "rules" have been tested and for the most part are tried and true. If one chooses to follow them or stray off with their own ideas is their perogative. I think most of us that are into clothing (and we must be because we are members of a clothing forum) want to look as good as possible. This is why we post pics, we get recommendations, we critique one another..in an effort to be better dressed. I've seen it happen on other forums. A member posts a pic and then gets a case of hurt feelings when someone offers up some constructive criticism in an effort to help that member. Not saying your feelings are hurt but I have seen it happen.


----------



## rsgordon

As far as Hickey Freeman suit sizing goes - would you say on par with or slightly larger than BB?


----------



## LairdAngus

Does anyone here have any familiarity with Bond's suits from the 1960's-1970's?

I've found one at a local thrift store, and I'm considering purchasing it. It is from their "Sudan Weave" summerweight collection, which is apparently a blend of mohair, worsted, and (gasp) dacron.


----------



## rsgordon

Another simple question - starting a job and missing a couple pieces. 

Relatively inexpensive place to buy dark dark (I have found far too many to be too light once side by side with the suit fabric) navy and gray dress socks for professional wear with suits? I have a pair each from Brooks Brothers that are quite nice but relatively pricey considering the volume I will need for every day use.


----------



## Tilton

I stocked up big time on some Cole Haan dress socks in charcoal, navy, and black from Stein Mart a while back. I think they were $1.99/pr and 90/10 merino/lycra blend. Plenty dark enough and wearing surprisingly hard.


----------



## CMDC

I picked up a bunch of navy and charcoal socks at Nordstrom Rack recently. Also a great place to get shoe trees.


----------



## Cheuk

blue suede shoes said:


> *Himself*
> Originally Posted by *Cheuk* https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?p=1524897#post1524897
> Need to get a handful of shirts soon for my new business casual job. Before purchasing, want to be sure I am getting the best off-the-rack size. Here is a . extra-slim fit in 16" neck, 34" sleeve. Do you think this is the right size for me? What should I tell tailor to do?
> 
> Cheuk,
> 
> I can see pulling at the top button and across the shoulders. So BB Slim might be a better fit for you than Extra Slim. Shoulder/chest fit is their main difference.
> 
> Also, did you upsize half an inch in the neck for shrinkage?
> 
> A size 16 shirt is too small for you. You need either a 16 1/2 or a 17 as you need more room at the top. I would try either in extra slim, or possibly slim. I see why you chose extra slim because it is baggy at the waist. I have the same problem, and I will probably go with a made to measure next time.​


Pardon my long delay in responding, very much appreciate your and others' comments.

My concern about sizing up in neck is that shoulders will be too wide, i.e. the shoulder seam will fall on my upper arm. My measured neck is actually 15.5, I got this in 16 in part because it seems that these must-iron OCBDs shrink a fair bit. I also sized up because I thought it might help with tightness around the chest. You're spot on about my reasons for getting the XS fit---very blousy around waist. But perhaps I should go with just Slim Fit and have a tailor take in near the waist (if I insist on sticking with BB, which perhaps is not the best OTR fit for me).

Thanks for your help!


----------



## rsgordon

You definitely need to change the pull on that button. As for being very blousy around the waist, the six buttons that you are showing are all outside of your trousers. This is definitely allow the shirt to pull apart in the front. Pull up your pants maybe?

Full disclosure: I am a string bean and I wear traditional cut shirts. The more room for me the better.


----------



## MDP

Yea or nay for this combo? Trying to branch out beyond white pocket squares. FYI the background of the ps is brown, but it looks a bit purple in some lights.


----------



## CMDC

^Looks good to me.

I think I have that pocket square---Polo???


----------



## MDP

CMDC said:


> ^Looks good to me.
> 
> I think I have that pocket square---Polo???


Yep. I really like the design itself, but I've had a hard time pairing it with my admittedly limited wardrobe (which is almost entirely made up of shades of blue).


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Those cream-colored wool socks that I see tradsters wearing with chinos...where does one get them?


----------



## Ivygrad71

SlideGuitarist said:


> Those cream-colored wool socks that I see tradsters wearing with chinos...where does one get them?


They're made by Wigwam.


----------



## Topsider

SlideGuitarist said:


> Those cream-colored wool socks that I see tradsters wearing with chinos...where does one get them?





Ivygrad71 said:


> They're made by Wigwam.


Specifically, the Wigwam 625.

https://shop.wigwam.com/p-2244-wigwam-625.aspx


----------



## Yuca

When did pinpoint shirts first appear in the natural shoulder world? Did Brooks introduce them? And did pinpoint cloth already exist in British clothing (like regular Oxford cloth did)?


----------



## leisureclass

MDP said:


> Yea or nay for this combo? Trying to branch out beyond white pocket squares. FYI the background of the ps is brown, but it looks a bit purple in some lights.


I like it, but I would go with a tie with wider stripes for more variance in the size of pattern between jacket and tie.


----------



## Jovan

Topsider said:


> Specifically, the Wigwam 625.
> 
> https://shop.wigwam.com/p-2244-wigwam-625.aspx


There is another brand that makes basically the same thing, Fox River Mills' 1777. Adler used to be the choice for Ivy League kids who first wore them with khakis and loafers, but they seem to be out of business. Smartwool makes a version that's more technical and modern, for those who dislike the thickness and itchiness of the old fashioned ones.


----------



## Reuben

While I haven't tried them myself, I've heard great things about the Kirkland version of wigwams and the price is a lot lower. 


Sent from beyond HEO using unknown means


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Jovan said:


> There is another brand that makes basically the same thing, Fox River Mills' 1777. Adler used to be the choice for Ivy League kids who first wore them with khakis and loafers, but they seem to be out of business. Smartwool makes a version that's more technical and modern, for those who dislike the thickness and itchiness of the old fashioned ones.


Nice! I have to ask, though: isn't the physical discomfort validation that you're _doing it right_? In all seriousness, the Wigwams' slight sagging adds an agreeably casual note, at least in photos here. Thanks for the tip, in any case; I just ordered some ordinary navy crew socks for my son (12), whose recent growth spurt means that I can't tell his socks from mine in the dryer, along with some socks for bicyling (much cheaper than the specialty shops near me).


----------



## Lord Elgin

I have a short and hopefully simple question on Ralph Lauren Yarmouth shirts. I bought a few of them in the late 90's, Hong Kong made and they're all still going strong with 200+ wear&wash cycles under them each. I guess the Yarmouth line no longer exists? If not, any ideas which of the current shirts is a closest match in terms of fit, sizing and quality of cloth? For example in my size (15,5 / 32) which RL shirt would be the best choice? Unfortunately haven't found any retailer around here stocking them so apparently I must order online. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Billax

SlideGuitarist said:


> Nice! I have to ask, though: isn't the physical discomfort validation that you're _doing it right_? In all seriousness, the Wigwams' slight sagging adds an agreeably casual note, at least in photos here. Thanks for the tip, in any case; I just ordered some ordinary navy crew socks for my son (12), whose recent growth spurt means that I can't tell his socks from mine in the dryer, along with some socks for bicyling (much cheaper than the specialty shops near me).


As someone who's worn Wigwam socks for more than 50 years - since starting college in 1959 - I have come to have a very strong preference for Wigwam Husky socks. Their unrivalled tactility and creamy color make them the _sine qua non _of wool athletic socks. They are perfect with both loafers and sneakers!









They cost just a bit more than Wigwam 625s but are creamier in color and a little more 'cushiony'. Just putting them on gives one comfort and pleasure. Among the things I wear, only my Camel Hair Polo coat, a cashmere sweater, and J. Press sport coats of 'Donegal Mist' cloth have the same effect on me - and the Wigwam Huskys are a heckuva lot cheaper!


----------



## rsgordon

Found them at $9 ea. Looking forward to trying the huskies.


----------



## Jovan

Reuben said:


> While I haven't tried them myself, I've heard great things about the Kirkland version of wigwams and the price is a lot lower.
> 
> Sent from beyond HEO using unknown means


I'd argue Wigwam is better known for quality (plus they're made in USA, which seems to be a "Trad" benchmark).



SlideGuitarist said:


> Nice! I have to ask, though: isn't the physical discomfort validation that you're _doing it right_? In all seriousness, the Wigwams' slight sagging adds an agreeably casual note, at least in photos here. Thanks for the tip, in any case; I just ordered some ordinary navy crew socks for my son (12), whose recent growth spurt means that I can't tell his socks from mine in the dryer, along with some socks for bicyling (much cheaper than the specialty shops near me).


I got used to it after a bit. Some other people may hate them, being used to modern cotton socks. Trip English was very outspoken about his dislike after trying them.



Billax said:


> As someone who's worn Wigwam socks for more than 50 years - since starting college in 1959 - I have come to have a very strong preference for Wigwam Husky socks. Their unrivalled tactility and creamy color make them the _sine qua non _of wool athletic socks. They are perfect with both loafers and sneakers!
> 
> View attachment 11011
> 
> 
> They cost just a bit more than Wigwam 625s but are creamier in color and a little more 'cushiony'. Just putting them on gives one comfort and pleasure. Among the things I wear, only my Camel Hair Polo coat, a cashmere sweater, and J. Press sport coats of 'Donegal Mist' cloth have the same effect on me - and the Wigwam Huskys are a heckuva lot cheaper!


Do you have any thoughts on the sized Merino wool version from Wigwam?


----------



## fawltytrousers

I have a OCBD question for all you seasoned trads. I'm looking to buy a few OCBD and I am looking for a good collar roll and must iron 100% cotton. This seems to be tough to find within my grad student budget. Would it be better to buy a LE shirt with a short collar or a new old stock sero from O'Connell's that is a blend, not 100% cotton?


----------



## Barnavelt

I have seen many a vintage shirt that is a polyester blend and it always has been my understanding it was fairly common in dress shirts. I really don't like the stuffy feeling I get with synthetics, especially right up next to my skin, so I do not go that route. I have plenty of hyde parks in my closet and I wear them all the time. However, I wear my BB OCBDs more. A lot of guys on here will wait for a particularly good deal on 3 for 1 BB OCBDs and then choose to stock up. I will leave it to others with more intimate knowledge of the BB sale calendar to tell you when that might be.



fawltytrousers said:


> I have a OCBD question for all you seasoned trads. I'm looking to buy a few OCBD and I am looking for a good collar roll and must iron 100% cotton. This seems to be tough to find within my grad student budget. Would it be better to buy a LE shirt with a short collar or a new old stock sero from O'Connell's that is a blend, not 100% cotton?


----------



## Barnavelt

I am looking for a warm weather suit option and I was interested in the O'Connell's poplin sack suits. I believe there was someone on here who bought one last year. Are they made by Jack Victor? How does poplin compare with linen, pincord, etc.? I currently have a linen SC I wear all the time, although I am having a hard time embracing the wrinkles.


----------



## rsgordon

Go on ebay and buy whatever shirt you prefer (BB traditional cut for me) gently used. Do not buy something that is not 100% cotton. Buy shirts you will want to wear and keep.



fawltytrousers said:


> I have a OCBD question for all you seasoned trads. I'm looking to buy a few OCBD and I am looking for a good collar roll and must iron 100% cotton. This seems to be tough to find within my grad student budget. Would it be better to buy a LE shirt with a short collar or a new old stock sero from O'Connell's that is a blend, not 100% cotton?


----------



## Reuben

So, question on suede shoe care. I took Satan's loafers out for a walk yesterday and got soaked in a sudden spring shower. I stuffed them full of newspaper overnight, have trees in them now, and plan on using a suede brush to restore the nap this evening. Anything else I need to do to help them recover? I've got no idea how to even begin to condition them if it turns out they need it. Would you put it on the inside and hope it soaks through the lining?


----------



## mjo_1

Reuben said:


> Satan's loafers


Ha, I knew I had a shoe problem when I understood this reference.

When people say starch shortens a shirt's life, are they referring to commercial grade stuff from the cleaners, home starch in a can, or both?

Still starching away,

Michael

EDIT: Barnavelt, I've got a tan poplin 3/2 from Cable Car Clothiers that's Canadian made, and I'm 99.9% sure it's a Cohen (looks just like my Press Cohen jackets). Judging from the price and other clues, I'd guess the O'Connell's would be a Cohen also. A little shouldery, but not too bad.


----------



## Reuben

mjo_1 said:


> Ha, I knew I had a shoe problem when I understood this reference.


Alden model 666 :devil:

They dried out and cleaned up just fine, BTW.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

What's the proper way to hem chinos? These (Bill's, fwiw) didn't have enough material to make 1.5" cuffs, according to my seamstress, so she just used a basting stitch:


I'd have preferred a cuff, for a better drape, but c'est la vie. Apparently she'd have needed 4" of extra fabric to make that work. Should she have used a straight stitch, as one sees on jeans?


----------



## rsgordon

I have some BB non-iron button downs that have truly horrific collar roll. I wash them completely unbuttoned and take them out slightly damp. Anyone have a suggestion on how to freshen them up a bit?


----------



## Tahmasp

Question - I was wondering if anyone on the forum has experience with white duck trousers. I've seen plenty of white garment-dyed chinos on the WAYWT thread, but white duck is a material that used to be standard and now doesn't seem so common. I've noticed that Ben Silver and O'Connells sell them - does anyone know about the fit and quality of white ducks from either place? Thanks!


----------



## Jovan

rsgordon said:


> I have some BB non-iron button downs that have truly horrific collar roll. I wash them completely unbuttoned and take them out slightly damp. Anyone have a suggestion on how to freshen them up a bit?


Short of actually pressing them a bit? No idea. Non-iron shirts are meant to be tumble dried so they achieve the intended purpose.


----------



## fawltytrousers

apologies for my late response, but I would like to thank the members that gave me advice. They all certainly gave me something to think about.


----------



## Shoe Leather

fawltytrousers said:


> apologies for my late response, but I would like to thank the members that gave me advice. They all certainly gave me something to think about.


The best BB deal is 40 percent off of four shirts, which is one of the days in the sale a week or two before Father's Day. So, if you have $230, you will be pretty well stocked.


----------



## Jovan

Someone may have asked this before, but can anyone tell me what the difference is between Polo I-IV sport coats? I cannot find any reference to them online outside of menswear forums (which do not describe what they are).


----------



## Orgetorix

Jovan said:


> Someone may have asked this before, but can anyone tell me what the difference is between Polo I-IV sport coats? I cannot find any reference to them online outside of menswear forums (which do not describe what they are).


Polo I- 2 button, center vent
Polo II- 3 button, side vents
Polo III- 2 button, side vents, ticket pocket
Polo IV- 3 button, side vents, ticket pocket

From this thread: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?77633-Polo-Ralph-Lauren-Suits


----------



## Jovan

Thanks.


----------



## L-feld

Barnavelt said:


> I am looking for a warm weather suit option and I was interested in the O'Connell's poplin sack suits. I believe there was someone on here who bought one last year. Are they made by Jack Victor? How does poplin compare with linen, pincord, etc.? I currently have a linen SC I wear all the time, although I am having a hard time embracing the wrinkles.


Poplin is lightweight, but not as breathable as linen or seersucker, which I personally find more comfortable. Poplin looks dressier, though. It also needs to be a cotton/poly blend if you want to avoid serious wrinkles. It's a classic summer look, but not necessarily any cooler than a minimally lined tropical wool suit.

I think Cohen makes the suits. I just got a seersucker suit from O'Connell's, which I think is also made by Cohen. It's fine, but Cohen really doesn't have a clue how to properly construct a natural shoulder. It's also fully lined.

That said, the only other option for a sub $500 seersucker sack (or poplin, for that matter) is Hardwick.

If you can wait a month or two, you may be able to get Eddie Jacobs to order you a poplin suit from Empire. They are usually pretty reasonably priced and they do a much better job with the shoulders than Cohen.

Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


----------



## Fading Fast

Question: Hi, I'm looking for a pair of patchwork madras shorts for my girlfriend's father. He is size 46 tall (he's 6'7" and about 230lbs). I've checked all the usual suspects - Polo, J.Press, Orvis, O'Connell's, Vineyard Vines, Bean, Lands End (they at least have 46 reg, but no tall and no patchwork madras), JOS Banks, Brooks - and was hoping maybe somebody knew of an off-the-radar big and tall men's site? Thank you.


----------



## Himself

SlideGuitarist said:


> What's the proper way to hem chinos? These (Bill's, fwiw) didn't have enough material to make 1.5" cuffs, according to my seamstress, so she just used a basting stitch:
> 
> I'd have preferred a cuff, for a better drape, but c'est la vie. Apparently she'd have needed 4" of extra fabric to make that work. Should she have used a straight stitch, as one sees on jeans?


The jean-type hem leaves a jean-like lump, which ruins chinos' smooth look. It may be OK for very casual wear (like jeans), but a proper trouser hem with at least a couple of inches folded under is preferable.

4" _is_ about the minimum required for cuffs. This leaves only 1/4" inch or so turned under, but hidden by the cuff so it's OK.

I've been through this several times lately!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Orgetorix said:


> Polo I- 2 button, center vent
> Polo II- 3 button, side vents
> Polo III- 2 button, side vents, ticket pocket
> Polo IV- 3 button, side vents, ticket pocket
> 
> From this thread: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?77633-Polo-Ralph-Lauren-Suits


Very helpful Org. Thanks for the info and the link. I know that Trip made the Polo II blazer and the older poster Red & Tops had numerous suits in the Polo II that looked great.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Himself said:


> The jean-type hem leaves a jean-like lump, which ruins chinos' smooth look. It may be OK for very casual wear (like jeans), but a proper trouser hem with at least a couple of inches folded under is preferable.
> 
> 4" _is_ about the minimum required for cuffs. This leaves only 1/4" inch or so turned under, but hidden by the cuff so it's OK.
> 
> I've been through this several times lately!


Thanks, that's helpful! Unfortunately, these are Bill's M2s, with a comparatively wide leg opening, and I'd really like a cuff to prevent the leg from flopping while I walk (another recent thread persuaded me that no-break looks better with a narrower leg). How narrow can this cuff acceptably be, as I clearly can't get 1.5" out of it.


----------



## bigwordprof

Fading Fast said:


> Question: Hi, I'm looking for a pair of patchwork madras shorts for my girlfriend's father. He is size 46 tall (he's 6'7" and about 230lbs). I've checked all the usual suspects - Polo, J.Press, Orvis, O'Connell's, Vineyard Vines, Bean, Lands End (they at least have 46 reg, but no tall and no patchwork madras), JOS Banks, Brooks - and was hoping maybe somebody knew of an off-the-radar big and tall men's site? Thank you.


This company can custom-make pants and shorts in a variety of fabrics, one of which is patch madras.

https://www.apparelbyssew.com/


----------



## Fading Fast

bigwordprof said:


> This company can custom-make pants and shorts in a variety of fabrics, one of which is patch madras.
> 
> https://www.apparelbyssew.com/


thank you - very interesting company and it will work; although, not for this birthday do to timing. We ended up getting him a pair of Bills Khakis straight madras shorts (just came and they look great). But we buy him gifts all the time and this will be our next place to go. Thank you so much for pointing it out. Sincerely, FF


----------



## Barnavelt

L-feld said:


> Poplin is lightweight, but not as breathable as linen or seersucker, which I personally find more comfortable. Poplin looks dressier, though. It also needs to be a cotton/poly blend if you want to avoid serious wrinkles. It's a classic summer look, but not necessarily any cooler than a minimally lined tropical wool suit.
> 
> I think Cohen makes the suits. I just got a seersucker suit from O'Connell's, which I think is also made by Cohen. It's fine, but Cohen really doesn't have a clue how to properly construct a natural shoulder. It's also fully lined.
> 
> That said, the only other option for a sub $500 seersucker sack (or poplin, for that matter) is Hardwick.
> 
> If you can wait a month or two, you may be able to get Eddie Jacobs to order you a poplin suit from Empire. They are usually pretty reasonably priced and they do a much better job with the shoulders than Cohen.
> 
> Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


Thank You! I really do need to go see Eddie and soon.


----------



## Urbnhautebourg

Barnavelt said:


> Thank You! I really do need to go see Eddie and soon.


Eddie! Eddie! Eddie!

You're from Maryland---you get the reference.


----------



## mhj

Do you think the jacket from an olive poplin suit could be used as a separate with maybe khaki (chino) pants? It's a dressier type of poplin suit from JAB that I've replaced with a Haspel.


----------



## ytc

Possibly, pic?


----------



## mhj

I don't have a picture but the jacket looks basically like this except mine is more green

https://www.josbank.com/menswear/shop/Product_11001_10050_418535


----------



## ytc

I think it *could* work as long as there is enough contrast between the green and khaki but it would be difficult.


----------



## vinyllover

It could work. Just saw Chinatown, and Jack Nicholson was wearing something similar. The jacket's not olive, but it illustrates the principle nicely.


----------



## Fading Fast

I think it is a stretch because, in part, the stitching to the lapel and jackets body look suit-like; whereas, some poplin suits have (or used to have) a sticking that looked more casual jacket like, where the stitch was set back about a quarter of an inch from the end of the lapel (and jacket body) so as to create almost a piping effect. Those, to my eye, look better as jackets. 

Does anyone agree / disagree and does anyone know the proper terms for what I am doing a terrible job of describing?


----------



## Cardinals5

Fading Fast said:


> the stitch was set back about a quarter of an inch from the end of the lapel (and jacket body) so as to create almost a piping effect.
> 
> Does anyone agree / disagree and does anyone know the proper terms for what I am doing a terrible job of describing?


Swelled edges


----------



## mhj

I know what you're talking about. I have an older navy poplin jacket with piping and patch pockets and I'm perfectly comfortable wearing it as causal jacket. The olive jacket in question is finished more like a suit as the one in the Jos Bank link is. I'm not so sure that one would like right with a pair of khaki pants.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cardinals5 said:


> Swelled edges


Yes, thank you, that is exactly what I was trying to describe. And as mhj just noted - when the poplin suit has this style of stitching and pockets, I think it works okay as a jacket owing to the casualness of it and I once owned a poplin jacket (bought as a jacket not part of a suit) like this, so in my mind it can be a jacket. Conversely, when poplin is finished like most suits, I think they look terrible as jackets in that, to my eye, they scream I was part of a suit.


----------



## ytc

For chinos do you prefer the very visible hem stitch as is found on most ready-made khakis or the hidden ("looks seamless") stitch usually found on dress trousers?

Specifically, I bought a pair of the Bills in chamois from the uber excellent STP sale and, since they are marketed as more "refined," I am wondering what you guys would do for hemming?


----------



## Fading Fast

I prefer a visible hem stitch unless the martial and style of the pants are absolutely traditional dress pants like. I went onto Bill's site and the material and style look more regular chino to me - so I'd go with a visible hem stitch. Also, that is how Bill's shows them and, usually, a manufacturer has figured out what looks best on its product, so that supports going with the visible hem stitch as well. Enjoy, they look like nice pants.


----------



## jackizod

I recently, and luckily, acquired 2 of my Dad's old Botany 500 suits. Dad said he only wore them a handful because he was never wild about them...he is more of a sportcoat/blazer kind of guy anyhow! Aside from the darting they seem to have all the hallmarks of a 80's updated-trad suit, and I'm planning to have them altered next week. My question is that while though the shoulder seem semi-natural (a slight pad is there but nothing too wild) I noticed some weird padding going on right behind my shoulder...it's causing a weird divot and looks slightly boxy where it shouldn't. Can that bit of padding be reduced, or is it something that I should learn to live with?


----------



## sbdivemaster

*Pocket Square Size*

How big is the average pocket square? Is there a standard size? A standard size range? Just looking for info on pocket square sizing/sizes...

Thanks!


----------



## Orgetorix

IIRC, 16" is standard. I think.


----------



## Jovan

I've seen sizes that range from 12" all the way up to 18". I prefer things on the smaller end, 12-15", because they are easier to use whether folding or puffing.


----------



## Tilton

I have them from 12"-18" as Jovan said. 12" is the standard from J Crew and it is the size I prefer. It tucks into the pocket better and doesn't have all that wadded up mess that can start to bulge. I also find that 12" squares stay put a bit better - I guess because they're not weighed down in the pocket by excess fabric.


----------



## mrfixit

Fading Fast said:


> I prefer a visible hem stitch unless the martial and style of the pants are absolutely traditional dress pants like. I went onto Bill's site and the material and style look more regular chino to me - so I'd go with a visible hem stitch. Also, that is how Bill's shows them and, usually, a manufacturer has figured out what looks best on its product, so that supports going with the visible hem stitch as well. Enjoy, they look like nice pants.


i'm pretty sure that was a trick question. the only acceptable answer is cuffed.


----------



## Howard

How do you get dust off of shoes, shoes that you haven't worn in quite a while sometimes collect and accumulate dust, is it a good idea to clean first then polish later?


----------



## eagle2250

^^Howard: Brush with a soft bristled brush to get get the worst of the dust off. Remove the remaining dust with a soft (preferably cotton), damp cloth and follow-up with a good buffing with a quality horsehair bristled brush. Should the shoes need conditioning or polishing after that, then by all means do so.


----------



## RPV

How is 3/2 roll said aloud? I've heard "three roll two," but I arbitrarily dislike that. My inclination is " three two roll," but I realize that this too could be incorrect. I'd be grateful for a definitive answer. 

PS - sorry if this has been discussed already, but I didn't find anything from a few searches.


----------



## RPV

I have another. This seems to me to be unorthodox, but is it possible to lengthen a suit jacket at the bottom hem (in other words, to lengthen the length between the collar and the bottom hem) by letting material out at the bottom? There's an opportunity that I'd like to grab; however, its proper fit is contingent on this possibility. 

Thanks.


----------



## Spin Evans

I don't think that any jackets would keep any extra fabric in the hem for lengthening, to say nothing for how it would look afterwards. I've had jacket shortened before, which was a tricky and costly endeavor. For most jackets, I think the wear line or crease would also be visible. How much are you wanting to let out? What does the garment look like?


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Howard: Brush with a soft bristled brush to get get the worst of the dust off. Remove the remaining dust with a soft (preferably cotton), damp cloth and follow-up with a good buffing with a quality horsehair bristled brush. Should the shoes need conditioning or polishing after that, then by all means do so.


Well, what I did was took a damp cloth to the shoes then waited for them to dry then added polish afterwards.


----------



## Jovan

RPV said:


> How is 3/2 roll said aloud? I've heard "three roll two," but I arbitrarily dislike that. My inclination is " three two roll," but I realize that this too could be incorrect. I'd be grateful for a definitive answer.
> 
> PS - sorry if this has been discussed already, but I didn't find anything from a few searches.


I've always said it as "three roll two".


----------



## Orgetorix

It's "Third Second," just like:


----------



## Jovan

:biggrin:


----------



## sbdivemaster

Orgetorix said:


> IIRC, 16" is standard. I think.





Jovan said:


> I've seen sizes that range from 12" all the way up to 18". I prefer things on the smaller end, 12-15", because they are easier to use whether folding or puffing.





Tilton said:


> I have them from 12"-18" as Jovan said. 12" is the standard from J Crew and it is the size I prefer. It tucks into the pocket better and doesn't have all that wadded up mess that can start to bulge. I also find that 12" squares stay put a bit better - I guess because they're not weighed down in the pocket by excess fabric.


Thanks for the replies!

What kind of fabrics/patterns do people like? How many do people own? How much do people spend on a PS? Also, feel free to add any other info you may think is pertinent....


----------



## Orgetorix

sbdivemaster said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> What kind of fabrics/patterns do people like? How many do people own? How much do people spend on a PS? Also, feel free to add any other info you may think is pertinent....


I like silk, printed in large, colorful, non-repeating patterns. Small, repeating patterns look too much like a necktie stuffed in your pocket.

I have probably a dozen or more, but only a few that fit the above description. The others get worn seldom or never.

Personally, I spend as little as possible, but I get nearly everything secondhand. I'd spend as much on a pocket square as I would on a bow tie, maybe.


----------



## rangen930

Is it correct to assume that all AE shoes on a given last will fit similarly and that I would take the same size in a park ave as I do in a strand, or a Lexington, etc?


----------



## red_shift

rangen930 said:


> Is it correct to assume that all AE shoes on a given last will fit similarly and that I would take the same size in a park ave as I do in a strand, or a Lexington, etc?


There's going to be slight variation between models on the same last but it's the best guideline you can use without trying them on side by side. If you're going for balmorals make sure that the vamp comes together cleanly when you lace them up. For me that means sizing wider than with a standard blucher.


----------



## Reuben

Can needlepoint belts be shortened and if so, how?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## red_shift

Reuben said:


> Can needlepoint belts be shortened and if so, how?


How about what belts can be shortened? Surcingle? Woven?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Reuben, this might work (https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2013/02/how-to-shorten-a-surcingle-belt/). I am not sure about the needlepoint, but I would look into it.


----------



## a.ashley

Nice I was also wondering the same. Can a cleaner's press a jacket to roll that way or is it a type of construction?


----------



## 3rd&17

I was just wondering what kind of trad shops (shops like the andover shop, murray's toggery, etc.) could be found in NYC? I'm visiting for the first time and wanted to make the most of the trip.


----------



## ArtVandalay

I'm looking at some of J. Crew's Gramercy shorts -- I don't have much experience with J. Crew. Any idea whether these fit true to size in the waist?

https://factory.jcrew.com/mens-clot...PRDOVR~A0929/A0929.jsp?color_name=apple-green


----------



## straw sandals

You should make the pilgrimage to Brooks Brothers just to look around. While you're in the neighborhood, Kamakura shirts is a favorite of mine. Their sales staff is very friendly, and their shirts are fantastic. Also, you should visit Paul Winston's little, hidden shop on 44th:

https://www.yelp.com/biz/winston-tailors-new-york

He still has a bunch of the old Chipp ties and sells wool challis and silk grenadine for less than you'll find anywhere else.

My two cents!



3rd&17 said:


> I was just wondering what kind of trad shops (shops like the andover shop, murray's toggery, etc.) could be found in NYC? I'm visiting for the first time and wanted to make the most of the trip.


----------



## HerrDavid

Unfortunately Press is gone, but if you do go to the Brooks flagship on Madison, there's also Paul Stuart and Alden. And Orvis has two nice stores just a stone's throw away on 5th Ave.

These in addition to the solid recommendations of straw sandals.


----------



## Fading Fast

HerrDavid said:


> Unfortunately Press is gone, but if you do go to the Brooks flagship on Madison, there's also Paul Stuart and Alden. And Orvis has two nice stores just a stone's throw away on 5th Ave.
> 
> These in addition to the solid recommendations of straw sandals.


A few other good ones are

Turnbull and Asser (50 E 57th)

The Polo Ralph Lauren Mansion (Madison and 72nd)

Peter Elliot (Lexington and 72nd - not far from the Polo Mansion)

J.Crew Liquor Store - carries the upscale J.Crew items / partnerships with some classic brands / some stuff you won't see in regular J.Crew stores (235 West Broadway)

Church's Shoes (Madison and 52nd)

Barbour (Madison and 80th)


----------



## oxford cloth button down

ArtVandalay said:


> I'm looking at some of J. Crew's Gramercy shorts -- I don't have much experience with J. Crew. Any idea whether these fit true to size in the waist?
> 
> https://factory.jcrew.com/mens-clot...PRDOVR~A0929/A0929.jsp?color_name=apple-green


In general my experience is yes J.Crew waist sizes run true to size. However, other parts of the fit may not, if that makes sense. I can wear the essential fit chinos in classic fit in a size 29, but not the Bowery pants in classic fit in a size 29. Both fit in the waist, but that was about it.


----------



## mhj

I picked up a really nice khaki colored poplin sack jacket on eBay. I was hoping that it would match up with one of the khaki pants that I already own but it's a shade off from the closest match. Do you think it's acceptable (i.e. how noticeable is it to anyone other than myself) to to wear them together or is it best use it as an odd jacket with contrasting pants?


----------



## Billax

mhj said:


> I picked up a really nice khaki colored poplin sack jacket on eBay. I was hoping that it would match up with one of the khaki pants that I already own but it's a shade off from the closest match. Do you think it's acceptable (i.e. how noticeable is it to anyone other than myself) to to wear them together or is it best use it as an odd jacket with contrasting pants?


mhj, I know you're a serious guy about apparel, so here's a serious answer. I wouldn't wear it as a suit, or suit light. For two reasons: Firstly, you've mentioned it's a shade "off" your nearest Khaki pants. That, by itself, would be a deal killer for me. Secondly, it is highly likely that there is a texture difference between Poplin and either twills or chinos. The combination of color mismatch and texture mismatch would, I believe, make you unhappy with the look.

So, what can one do with a Khaki-colored jacket? Lots, I believe. Invert the standard "bland trousers, bright jacket" look. If you'd wear your Khaki trou with a light Blue Chambray jacket, then invert the colors, by wearing light blue trousers. Similarly, if you'd wear Khakis with a Gingham sport coat, why not wear a Khaki sport coat with Gingham trousers. Inverting your look is a terrific change of pace. I do it frequently and would recommend it for someone as meticulous as you. If you were to consider this, I'll add that I invert look and pattern between 25-30% of the time.

Good luck!

Bill


----------



## mhj

Billax, thank you for your reply. Your opinion is certainly one that I respect. My thoughts on wearing the jacket as a suit are that most people aren't really paying that must attention to what other's are wearing unless it looks extremely sloppy or you're extremely well dressed, if you're in the middle of the pack you just blend in. At least that's the way I perceive things, I could be totally wrong. Therefore, according to my theory it wouldn't be so noticeable except to myself. I don't have that much occasion to wear a tan suit so I don't want to try to order the other half of the suit from Press.

In any case I see a lot of possible combinations using it as an odd jacket. I wore it to work today with a much whiter shade of khakis and a blue and black tattersall shirt and thought I looked terrific and in fact was complimented on by co-workers. I'm not sure that I'd wear gingham trousers but navy, brown, gray, etc. are in my inventory and would all work with it.



Billax said:


> mhj, I know you're a serious guy about apparel, so here's a serious answer. I wouldn't wear it as a suit, or suit light. For two reasons: Firstly, you've mentioned it's a shade "off" your nearest Khaki pants. That, by itself, would be a deal killer for me. Secondly, it is highly likely that there is a texture difference between Poplin and either twills or chinos. The combination of color mismatch and texture mismatch would, I believe, make you unhappy with the look.
> 
> So, what can one do with a Khaki-colored jacket? Lots, I believe. Invert the standard "bland trousers, bright jacket" look. If you'd wear your Khaki trou with a light Blue Chambray jacket, then invert the colors, by wearing light blue trousers. Similarly, if you'd wear Khakis with a Gingham sport coat, why not wear a Khaki sport coat with Gingham trousers. Inverting your look is a terrific change of pace. I do it frequently and would recommend it for someone as meticulous as you. If you were to consider this, I'll add that I invert look and pattern between 25-30% of the time.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Bill


----------



## oxford cloth button down

MHJ - I like the way PJ used navy chinos here. I am in Billax's camp. I wouldn't wear it as a suit.


----------



## Fading Fast

mhj said:


> Billax, thank you for your reply. Your opinion is certainly one that I respect. My thoughts on wearing the jacket as a suit are that most people aren't really paying that must attention to what other's are wearing unless it looks extremely sloppy or you're extremely well dressed, if you're in the middle of the pack you just blend in. At least that's the way I perceive things, I could be totally wrong. Therefore, according to my theory it wouldn't be so noticeable except to myself. I don't have that much occasion to wear a tan suit so I don't want to try to order the other half of the suit from Press.
> 
> In any case I see a lot of possible combinations using it as an odd jacket. I wore it to work today with a much whiter shade of khakis and a blue and black tattersall shirt and thought I looked terrific and in fact was complimented on by co-workers. I'm not sure that I'd wear gingham trousers but navy, brown, gray, etc. are in my inventory and would all work with it.


I know you are being thoughtful about this, so please understand that my comments are intended to be thoughtfully respectful. I disagree with the view that since "most people aren't really paying attention to what others are wearing" you could wear the pants and jacket as a suit. On one level, yes, most people wouldn't notice, but some would notice that something was off even if they didn't connect the (unconnected - tee-hee) suit dots. And that is the point: most of the people on this board, and I include you in this group, care about dressing right for the inherent qualities that reflects.

Even if most of the people who thought something was off in your "suit" wouldn't know why, once they have intuitively noticed, you have lost the value you care about - proper dressing and projecting a quality that most people can't define, most don't know the finer points of, but that they can still sense when they see it (or when they don't). You want to be the person that they sense is well dressed. I will get compliments from time to time along the lines of "you always look well put together," or "I don't now why, but I like the way you dress." Those people don't know that I agonized over the proper width of my belt, or the exact break of my pants or if the textures in everything from my tie to my socks are harmonious, but they still "feel" the effect.

That's why you don't want to wear the jacket and pants as a suit - you know better, you project your dress better and you want others to feel and sense that. Oh, and Popinjay's example of a tan jacket and navy slacks is outstanding (he really, really knows how to dress - I wish I had half his sense of style).


----------



## Barnavelt

Has anyone had any experience with the O'Connell's straw fedora hats?



I need a more stylish alternative to my olive drab floppy hat.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Fading Fast said:


> Oh, and Popinjay's example of a tan jacket and navy slacks is outstanding (he really, really knows how to dress - I wish I had half his sense of style).


Thank you OCBD and FF, you're very kind. 
I found the Corbin poplin at a goodwill about a month ago and I have been getting so much use of it. The shop I work at sells the same jacket with matching pants but I get so much use out of it as an odd jacket I don't think I need them. I wear it with navy, grey, even some stone colored chinos I have. My personal favorite is with my nantucket reds or my green chinos.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I bought these lightweight cotton trousers from Bill's Khakis at the end of last summer, when the price was tolerable. The color resolution here is pretty accurate:



I don't think Bill's sells these anymore: the pattern is "pinpoint," i.e. light gray pinpoints on a navy ground. It gives them a sort of slate-blue, slightly desaturated appearance. I haven't found a jacket that looks good with these (not that I have that many jackets). A very small-scale pattern, i.e. herringbone, does not look good against the small scale of the pinpoints.

Any ideas? Perhaps just a much darker blue jacket, i.e. the old standby, navy hopsack? The navy jacket over gray trousers has been derided as the "security guard" look, so I'm wondering how to perk it up. These trousers look even grayer next to a saturated blue. Now we've got even more neutral colors:



...and now we've got too many different kinds of blue:


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SlideGuitarist said:


> I bought these lightweight cotton trousers from Bill's Khakis at the end of last summer, when the price was tolerable. The color resolution here is pretty accurate:
> 
> I don't think Bill's sells these anymore: the pattern is "pinpoint," i.e. light gray pinpoints on a navy ground. It gives them a sort of slate-blue, slightly desaturated appearance. I haven't found a jacket that looks good with these (not that I have that many jackets). A very small-scale pattern, i.e. herringbone, does not look good against the small scale of the pinpoints.


What about a larger-scale herringbone? Or perhaps a summer-weight gun-club check?



SlideGuitarist said:


> Any ideas? Perhaps just a much darker blue jacket, i.e. the old standby, navy hopsack? The navy jacket over gray trousers has been derided as the "security guard" look, so I'm wondering how to perk it up.


Sure, 50% of security guard uniforms are a navy jacket with gray trousers. The other 50% are dark suits, and the same concern is never used as a blanket condemnation of dark suits. That said, you should avoid wearing bad shoes, a uniform patch over your breast pocket, or a nametag, and you may want to avoid trying to forcibly escort anyone off the premises.



SlideGuitarist said:


> These trousers look even grayer next to a saturated blue. Now we've got even more neutral colors:


These looks with the checked shirts and shiny silk ties are right for wool trousers in an elegant blue gray, which these resemble. If you look through that, though, you'll see they aren't that. I'd put them in about the middle of the formality range for khakis: the color makes them dressier than a rugged, rumpled, frayed pair, but a bit more casual than a crisp, neatly pressed set. They do have polka dots, after all. How about a pink BD shirt and a madras tie? Or a repp. Or some other normal color of BD shirt. Really simple stuff. They're not GTH pants, really, but there's nothing wrong with going back to the real basics with them.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Your response does suggest what I should look for in summer-weight dress trousers. Be that as it may, I like your suggestions. These trousers wrinkle like crazy, though they were sold as cotton dress trousers; they don't present an elegant line. I should therefore back off on the dress shirts (the tan necktie is actually linen, but you have a great eye), and favor 1, a bolder-patterned jacket (and definitely not a solid gray jacket...exactly the wrong idea); 2, a button-down shirt (probably not OC; these would be heavier than the trousers); 3, the introduction of some color by more casual means, e.g. a pink shirt or a cotton necktie.


----------



## Fading Fast

SlideGuitarist said:


> Your response does suggest what I should look for in summer-weight dress trousers. Be that as it may, I like your suggestions. These trousers wrinkle like crazy, though they were sold as cotton dress trousers; they don't present an elegant line. I should therefore back off on the dress shirts (the tan necktie is actually linen, but you have a great eye), and favor 1, a bolder-patterned jacket (and definitely not a solid gray jacket...exactly the wrong idea); 2, a button-down shirt (probably not OC; these would be heavier than the trousers); 3, the introduction of some color by more casual means, e.g. a pink shirt or a cotton necktie.


I own the same pants - bought on sale at the end of last year as well. I have been wearing them with a simple white pinpoint dress shirt (Brooks Brothers Black Fleece which has a somewhat casual vibe so it is harmonious with the pants) and without a sport coat to have something more dressy than chinos and a polo, but less dressy than dress slacks and a blazer. As to wearing them with a sport coat, they look pretty good with my pale grey and white seersucker jacket and a white shirt - so if you have one of those, that might work for you as a jacket.

The pants do wrinkle like mad, but they also look well made and higher end than the average casual Friday chino, but are not as formal as true dress pants. I bought them because of the sale, but have found they fill that niche in my wardrobe when, in the summer, I want a nicer look than chinos, but don't want to go all the way to dress slacks and blazer. They might also work with a tan cotton chino sport coat, like Popinjay's above, but I don't own one so I'd have to see it together to be sure, but in theory, I think that would work well.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Fading Fast said:


> I own the same pants - bought on sale at the end of last year as well. I have been wearing them with a simple white pinpoint dress shirt (Brooks Brothers Black Fleece which has a somewhat casual vibe so it is harmonious with the pants) and without a sport coat to have something more dressy than chinos and a polo, but less dressy than dress slacks and a blazer. As to wearing them with a sport coat, they look pretty good with my pale grey and white seersucker jacket and a white shirt - so if you have one of those, that might work for you as a jacket.
> 
> The pants do wrinkle like mad, but they also look well made and higher end than the average casual Friday chino, but are not as formal as true dress pants. I bought them because of the sale, but have found they fill that niche in my wardrobe when, in the summer, I want a nicer look than chinos, but don't want to go all the way to dress slacks and blazer. They might also work with a tan cotton chino sport coat, like Popinjay's above, but I don't own one so I'd have to see it together to be sure, but in theory, I think that would work well.


Did you by any chance also get the cotton glen plaid trousers from Bill's? _Those _were nice: a coworker told me, "I hate pleats, but those are great!" Like, whatevs, bro.

The pinpoint trousers are neither exactly blue nor exactly gray; not really dark and not really light. I like your suggestion of a very light jacket (gray or perhaps stone) jacket, lighter than the Popinjay's. Whereas the navy jacket I selected above isn't an effective complement. Matching them against a gun check or such is hard to do if all I have to go on is a JPG of said jacket on eBay, though I agree with YRB that that would be the more awesome solution.


----------



## Fading Fast

SlideGuitarist said:


> Did you by any chance also get the cotton glen plaid trousers from Bill's? _Those _were nice: a coworker told me, "I hate pleats, but those are great!" Like, whatevs, bro.
> 
> The pinpoint trousers are neither exactly blue nor exactly gray; not really dark and not really light. I like your suggestion of a very light jacket (gray or perhaps stone) jacket, lighter than the Popinjay's. Whereas the navy jacket I selected above isn't an effective complement. Matching them against a gun check or such is hard to do if all I have to go on is a JPG of said jacket on eBay, though I agree with YRB that that would be the more awesome solution.


You describe the pants well - "neither exactly blue nor exactly gray; not really dark and not really light" - but that and that they are an atypical fabric (cotton, but somewhat linen like, but not linen) is what I like about them as I need something to break the phalanx of chinos that form the core of my casual pants wardrobe. If you have a grey-white seersucker sport coat, I think you'll like the combination. Also, have you noticed the deep pockets (a good thing) and the nubby lining (an odd thing)?

I did not buy the glen plaids. The pants I did buy was kind of a whim as I had no idea what they would really be like and only bought them because I was intrigued by the description, they were on a real sale and, in general, Bill's puts out a good product. I am happy with them and have found a real use for them as noted above (nicer than chinos and a polo, but below a pair of true dress pants and a blazer), but still am not passionate about them (as I am about my only God-knows-how-many chinos). Last point, I have received a few compliments on them - which says they stand out a bit in a good way - I guess.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SlideGuitarist said:


> Your response does suggest what I should look for in summer-weight dress trousers. Be that as it may, I like your suggestions. These trousers wrinkle like crazy, though they were sold as cotton dress trousers; they don't present an elegant line. I should therefore back off on the dress shirts (the tan necktie is actually linen, but you have a great eye), and favor 1, a bolder-patterned jacket (and definitely not a solid gray jacket...exactly the wrong idea); 2, a button-down shirt (probably not OC; these would be heavier than the trousers); 3, the introduction of some color by more casual means, e.g. a pink shirt or a cotton necktie.


In linen, that tie would be better.

A wiser man than I once cautioned that one should tread very lightly in combining patterned jackets with patterned trousers. Could you do right with a guncheck? Probably. But what I meant to make clear was that a navy blazer is quite alright -- though it would have to be on the casual side.

I wore an oxford shirt that was heavier than my poplin trousers today -- though it would normally be weird to wear a shirt heavier than one's trousers, I make an exception for very lightweight summer pants with oxford or linen shirts.

Totally agree on point three.


----------



## ytc

Not a question but I ROFL'd when I read Brooks Brothers' email subject line this morning: "Summer Clearance - Tees, Swimwear & Flip-Flops."


----------



## SlideGuitarist

BLUF: Is the necktie below admirably GTH? Does it stay or does it go?

It's 3.25" wide, a fairly shiny repp, _hot _pink (its hotness is not entirely obvious in this photo, due to my Blackberry's lousy color resolution), with royal blue and green-closer-to-aqua stripes. If I ever wanted to rob a bank, I'd wear this tie. You know the fur hats that Paul Castellano's assassins wore, to deflect attention from their faces?

I cleaned out my closet _and_ my bureau drawer yesterday, and managed to fill an entire lawn trash bag with cotton, mostly team-building T-shirts from my current employer, and now-oversized blue jeans. I also got rid of, alas! a gun-check SC with '90s-sized lapels and shoulder padding, and '90s neckties. While stuffing all this into bags for the Purple Heart folks, my wife told me I needed to get rid of this: "I wore this to preppie day at my school last year, as a _joke_!"

It's from the JAB store in Birmingham, MI. No, I didn't grow up there; I might actually have driven there from Utica, MI, while under the influence of the _Preppie Handbook_, sometime in the early '80s. Is this "vintage" JAB, or post-lapsarian?


----------



## Roycru

Keep the pink tie and wear it.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

That settles it! If you can wear a sherbet-colored tie w/ a pink shirt, while sitting behind what looks like a guacamole sundae..


----------



## Roycru

SlideGuitarist said:


> That settles it! If you can wear a sherbet-colored tie w/ a pink shirt, while sitting behind what looks like a guacamole sundae..


Be sure to post pictures when you wear your tie. I have three pink ties, which I wear with blue, grey, brown, or tan suits or jackets.

Don't know why the picture came out so small. Even if one clicks on it, it is still small, too small for those who remember 1953 to notice that it's not a guacamole sundae, but rather what was then called "Coronation Chicken".


----------



## Urbnhautebourg

I have a spring/summer jacket that looks almost exactly like this. I can't figure out what trou to wear with it. Tan trousers looked weird. What do you suggest?


----------



## loarbmhs

How about a mid grey worsted? Looks great with practically everything.


Urbnhautebourg said:


> I have a spring/summer jacket that looks almost exactly like this. I can't figure out what trou to wear with it. Tan trousers looked weird. What do you suggest?


----------



## Trad-ish

Roycru said:


> Keep the pink tie and wear it.
> 
> View attachment 11875


My sentiment as well.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Trad-ish said:


> My sentiment as well.


Done (see WAYWT). I actually got compliments on it, showing that it pays to act like you know what you're doing.


----------



## orange fury

I've been trying for several years to get into cardigans, they've always ended up frumpy looking on me, but I think I've finally found one I like. It's BB red fleece, gray (which is what I wanted), thin cotton, and best of all, no pockets. The only thing is that it's tipped in navy. I think I like the navy accenting, but has anyone found tipped cardigans difficult to pair with a tie? Should I avoid this or go ahead and get it?

preface: I've had good experiences with my BB RF stuff, so that aspect doesn't bother me


----------



## area3400

Battle of the brown burnished shoe: Kenilworth vs Strand vs 5th ave (for business casual)



Shopping the shoe bank for a second pair of AEs (first pair are from the rough collection). I have been leaning toward the Kenilworths because they are the opposite of what I have (blucher and plain toe) but in depending on the pics I see they are either simple and classic or a little bleh. I know I like the strands but I already have a shoe with lots of perforations...my dilemma.

If you were me what would you choose?


----------



## Orgetorix

I'd go with the Kenilworth. Plain toe is more likely to fit with a range of casual looks than a more dressy brogue like the Strand.


----------



## orange fury

Anyone know anything about Archie Brown & Son, Hampstead & Highgate International, or Moore's, specifically in relation to Harris Tweed? I'm looking at a couple vintage jackets and want to only buy one right now, I can't find much on any of these companies.

EDIT:

heres sellers' photos of two of the jackets-

Moore's:


Archie Brown & Son:


any info about which one might be a better purchase would be appreciated.


----------



## area3400

Orgetorix said:


> I'd go with the Kenilworth. Plain toe is more likely to fit with a range of casual looks than a more dressy brogue like the Strand.


Good point. Maybe I will save my strand purchase for when I can get the brown shell (who knows when).


----------



## sskim3

orange fury said:


> Anyone know anything about Archie Brown & Son, Hampstead & Highgate International, or Moore's, specifically in relation to Harris Tweed? I'm looking at a couple vintage jackets and want to only buy one right now, I can't find much on any of these companies.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> heres sellers' photos of two of the jackets-
> 
> Moore's:
> 
> Archie Brown & Son:
> 
> any info about which one might be a better purchase would be appreciated.


Can't tell you about the brands, but I like the Moore's a little better. The Archie Brown & Son reminds me of the Stafford HT you already have with the herringbone weave. Can I suggest a brown HT jacket?


----------



## orange fury

sskim3 said:


> Can't tell you about the brands, but I like the Moore's a little better. The Archie Brown & Son reminds me of the Stafford HT you already have with the herringbone weave. Can I suggest a brown HT jacket?


See, and I was thinking that the Moore's wasn't as close to my Stafford one as the Archie, and I like the patch pockets and weave of the Moore's, but the thing I liked about the Archie was that it's made in England, and from what little I could find on the brand, they appear to have some highly thought of Shetland sweaters. I wasn't sure if that was a determinant of jacket quality or not.

EDIT: it appears Moore's is a Canadian subsidiary of Mens Wearhouse. Anyone have any experience? Because now I'm leaning toward the Archie lol


----------



## orange fury

Ended up going with a different option, found an Arthur M Rosenberg Harris Tweed in what appears to be excellent condition for the same price as the others, so I picked that up instead. Pics over in the acquisitions thread.


----------



## Monocle

I probably have naively misunderstood the forum guidelines, but as I read it, supposedly I can close threads as OP in the Sales forum?, which I need to do. But I see no function or operation to do so. Anyone have a tip? Or do I just verbally proclaim it "closed".


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Orgetorix said:


> I'd go with the Kenilworth. Plain toe is more likely to fit with a range of casual looks than a more dressy brogue like the Strand.


I second this -- I have a pair of Strands, and a pair of 3-eyelet bluchers, and though the Strands are an excellent choice for suits and/or coat and tie, the bluchers are more wearable with anything tieless.


----------



## Duvel

Is it more trad to wear a button-down collar shirt (OCBDs and sport shirts sans ties) with only one button undone? I've been wearing most of my shirts with two buttons undone, but I notice that a lot of trad images, both historical and current, show shirts worn with just the top button undone. Thanks.


----------



## zcm

Duvel said:


> Is it more trad to wear a button-down collar shirt (OCBDs and sport shirts sans ties) with only one button undone? I've been wearing most of my shirts with two buttons undone, but I notice that a lot of trad images, both historical and current, show shirts worn with just the top button undone. Thanks.


No expert here, but as long as you don't have a creepy amount of chest hair showing I would say you are fine.


----------



## Duvel

zcm said:


> No expert here, but as long as you don't have a creepy amount of chest hair showing I would say you are fine.


I don't. I'm not very hairy, and the few strays that "creep" into the neckline I keep shaved off.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Is it more trad to wear a button-down collar shirt (OCBDs and sport shirts sans ties) with only one button undone? I've been wearing most of my shirts with two buttons undone, but I notice that a lot of trad images, both historical and current, show shirts worn with just the top button undone. Thanks.


I alternate, at the office I'll do one, but outside of the office sometimes two. Depends on the shirt/setting/my mood


----------



## L-feld

Duvel said:


> Is it more trad to wear a button-down collar shirt (OCBDs and sport shirts sans ties) with only one button undone? I've been wearing most of my shirts with two buttons undone, but I notice that a lot of trad images, both historical and current, show shirts worn with just the top button undone. Thanks.


One button is typical, but it really depends on the OCBD. For a very long time Brooks OCBD's had 6 widely spaced buttons, so one button undone was fairly open.

On the other hand, a lot of modern OCBD's have upwards of 8 buttons, spaced more narrowly. A single open button on many contemporary OCBD's can look too buttoned up.

I often wear two buttons open, although if i'm wear a jacket, I may do one button, as the placket will sit better.

Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


----------



## Barnavelt

OK so I would love to buy a pair of the unlined LHS Alden makes for Brooks Brothers, but I cannot afford them. Is there another unlined loafer in a similar style that would be worth investigating? Although preferred, it does not need to be domestic in manufacture. I already have a pair of AE Kenwood loafers, which, although unlined, have thick soles and are just generally more robust and less refined than the LHS appears to be. Although I have worn them a number of times w/o socks, I can't imagine achieving with the Kenwood the "slipper-like" feel, regardless of how many times I wear them. Any response is appreciated.


----------



## gamma68

Is it possible to remove a patch sewn to the chest pocket of a cashmere blazer without the stitch marks showing?

Also, is it possible to add a rear vent to a jacket that is NOT vented?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Reuben

gamma68 said:


> Is it possible to remove a patch sewn to the chest pocket of a cashmere blazer without the stitch marks showing?
> 
> Also, is it possible to add a rear vent to a jacket that is NOT vented?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Maybe and no. It depends on bow long the patch has been there and how much fading, if any, has occurred as well as how closely the patch is stitched on and how delicate the cloth is. I got my first great blazer for an absolute steal because I gambled on a yacht club patch coming off without leaving a mark but your mileage may vary. The vent, though, is probably not gonna happen. There'd have to be an unusually generous allowance at the seam for the tailor to be able to add a vent.


----------



## gamma68

Reuben said:


> Maybe and no. It depends on bow long the patch has been there and how much fading, if any, has occurred as well as how closely the patch is stitched on and how delicate the cloth is. I got my first great blazer for an absolute steal because I gambled on a yacht club patch coming off without leaving a mark but your mileage may vary. The vent, though, is probably not gonna happen. There'd have to be an unusually generous allowance at the seam for the tailor to be able to add a vent.


Thanks, Reuben. Your explanations make perfect sense. Now I need to gauge my threshold for gambling on a particular cashmere blazer (vintage) with a patch on the chest pocket.


----------



## Orgetorix

Barnavelt said:


> OK so I would love to buy a pair of the unlined LHS Alden makes for Brooks Brothers, but I cannot afford them. Is there another unlined loafer in a similar style that would be worth investigating? Although preferred, it does not need to be domestic in manufacture. I already have a pair of AE Kenwood loafers, which, although unlined, have thick soles and are just generally more robust and less refined than the LHS appears to be. Although I have worn them a number of times w/o socks, I can't imagine achieving with the Kenwood the "slipper-like" feel, regardless of how many times I wear them. Any response is appreciated.


A saved search on Ebay might eventually yield a pair of the BB LHS in your price range.

I'm not sure there are any good alternatives. Most pennies have a moc-stitched toe seam and are more rugged looking than the LHS's sleek, skin-stitched toe profile. The only similar shoe I can think of is the AE Patriot, and I don't think they make an unlined version.


----------



## Barnavelt

Orgetorix said:


> A saved search on Ebay might eventually yield a pair of the BB LHS in your price range.
> 
> I'm not sure there are any good alternatives. Most pennies have a moc-stitched toe seam and are more rugged looking than the LHS's sleek, skin-stitched toe profile. The only similar shoe I can think of is the AE Patriot, and I don't think they make an unlined version.


Thanks Org for the suggestion. I agree entirely in regards to the toe seam. In the BB version it's more refined, looks like a different loafer entirely. The Patriot; so many bad reviews on that one, including multiple reports of a squeaky heel that just won't go away. It's a fine looking shoe. Maybe they have addressed those issues.


----------



## orange fury

Anyone familiar with Carroll Reed from a quality standpoint, specifically their Harris Tweeds? I'm looking at picking up this one (also, looks like a 3/2, can someone confirm?):



Also, same questions about Dunn and Co. (quality/does this look like a 3/2):


sorry about all the tweed questions, I'm starting to prep for fall/winter


----------



## ThePopinjay

Definitely appears to be a 3/2. Can't speak to the quality of the maker,attractive looking jacket though.


----------



## Fading Fast

Being older, I have usually heard of the brands, but in this case, I have only a vague memory of Carroll Reed as a mid-level brand (maybe like a Macy's house brand today) and do not know the other brand. They both look like 3/2s to me. And they both look nice.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

OF - Both tweed looks great. I have heard many good things about vintage Dunn and Co (and Roycru occasional wears their stuff). 

If you can examine the button holes it usually easy to tell if a jacket is a 3 button or 3/2. If it is a 3/2 the top button will not be finished on what would be the outer hole. This is the opposite of the other button holes.


----------



## roman totale XVII

Carroll Reed is definitely a 3/2. Don't know about quality though.
Dunn & Co was a solid English maker. I'd say that jacket is a 3 button, but the shoulders look great and IMO that is more important.


----------



## C. Sharp

Carroll Reed Ski ShopsSelling his interest in the ski school may have taken Reed out of the ski instruction business, but his influence on the ski industry and on the North Conway, NH area was just beginning. Around the time that Carroll Reed was opening his ski school, he saw another niche and decided to fill it; he began importing ski wear from Scandinavia.
At first, he retailed with Saks Fifth Avenue which had a store in North Conway. When the Saks store closed, Reed opened the store under his own name, and the Carroll Reed ski shops were born. Skis and ski related clothing were sold in his shops and through a well-loved mail order catalog which was well known for having a picture of the Reed family on the back. The name Carroll Reed soon became synonymous with quality ski- focused products and would forever be tied with North Conway and the Eastern Slope region of the White Mountains.
Carroll Reed sold the chain in 1969, and it was owned by several companies such as Charles M. Leighton's CML Group, Boston Whaler, and The Nature Company. The company was finally shut down permanently in 1996.

https://suite.io/andrea-ruiz/47g42gs

I like the jackets that Gordon Ford did for Carroll Reed


----------



## orange fury

Thanks for the responses guys, still debating. I like the Dunn & Co if it's a 3/2, but I can't do a true 3, just not a look I like on me. This is the photo from the seller that made me think the D&C might be a 3/2 (without asking the seller for a pic of the back of the buttonhole):


also, on this topic, anyone familiar with PBM? I found this one and I love the pockets and the tweed, I'm just not sure if that button stance is too low as to make it look dated or not:


----------



## ThePopinjay

The second one is definitely not to my taste, but I quite like the first one. It is most certainly meant to be rolled to the second button.


----------



## Jovan

That's most definitely a misbuttoned 3/2. I can't completely fault sellers who are oblivious to the existence of such a buttoning style, but I do wish some would at least research when they think, "Huh, that's weird how it strains when I button the top."


----------



## C. Sharp

PBM was out of Philadelphia.

also, on this topic, anyone familiar with PBM? I found this one and I love the pockets and the tweed, I'm just not sure if that button stance is too low as to make it look dated or not:

[/QUOTE]


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Looking for info on Red Fleece fit. I want a sweater and I am not sure if I should buy my size that fits in traditional BB or size up? Thanks in advance for the help.


----------



## orange fury

oxford cloth button down said:


> Looking for info on Red Fleece fit. I want a sweater and I am not sure if I should buy my size that fits in traditional BB or size up? Thanks in advance for the help.


This is a RF vest, so i obviously can't comment on sleeves, but I normally buy a small in sweaters:



This is a size small, for reference, I'm 5'11"/160 lbs/38R jacket/32 waist/15 neck/34 sleeve. I found it to be fairly fitted (higher armholes primarily), but not "BBBF/RLBL fashion forward ultra skinny". Personally, I really like the fit and have considered other RF sweaters.


----------



## orange fury

Anyone have any thoughts on doeskin blazers? Lands End is offering one right now with patch pockets that I'm liking, but I don't think I've ever handled a doeskin garment in person. Link:


And I know the lapels are super skinny from the pic, but I think the proportions are the same as the oxford cloth jacket I have from them


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on doeskin blazers? Lands End is offering one right now with patch pockets that I'm liking, but I don't think I've ever handled a doeskin garment in person. Link:
> 
> And I know the lapels are super skinny from the pic, but I think the proportions are the same as the oxford cloth jacket I have from them


I believe CMDC has one of those LE doeskin blazers.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

The doeskins I've seen have struck me as nice. They certainly have trad pedigree.

In my experience, red fleece fits slim.


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

What do you call these kind of vests/sweaters, it looks so cool, and I want one (many).



orange fury said:


> This is a RF vest, so i obviously can't comment on sleeves, but I normally buy a small in sweaters:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a size small, for reference, I'm 5'11"/160 lbs/38R jacket/32 waist/15 neck/34 sleeve. I found it to be fairly fitted (higher armholes primarily), but not "BBBF/RLBL fashion forward ultra skinny". Personally, I really like the fit and have considered other RF sweaters.


----------



## Reuben

ThatDudeOrion said:


> What do you call these kind of vests/sweaters, it looks so cool, and I want one (many).


Polo or tennis sweater.


----------



## orange fury

ThatDudeOrion said:


> What do you call these kind of vests/sweaters, it looks so cool, and I want one (many).


What Reuben said, it also goes by cricket sweater/vest. I love them, I have 2 vests (the BB here and a RL) and two full sweaters (RL and Izod):



(clockwise from top left: RL, Izod, RL, BB)


----------



## Duvel

Wow, very jealous, especially of the top two sweaters, OF. Are those also smalls?


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Wow, very jealous, especially of the top two sweaters, OF. Are those also smalls?


Top 2 and the BB vest are small, RL vest is medium. The RL sweater and BB vest are my favorites and fit the best, the Izod fits oddly around the waist (so it's more for around the house), and the RL vest is a bit too large (the price was too good to pass up, so I'm having my tailor alter it significantly to make it work lol).


----------



## Duvel

Thanks. I've had my eye on this for a while, on sale right now: https://www.ralphlauren.com/product...ew=99&ab=ln_men_cs_sweaters&parentPage=family

I'm tempted. I was a little put off by the color at first, but it's grown on me.


----------



## Reuben

Duvel said:


> Thanks. I've had my eye on this for a while, on sale right now: https://www.ralphlauren.com/product...ew=99&ab=ln_men_cs_sweaters&parentPage=family
> 
> I'm tempted. I was a little put off by the color at first, but it's grown on me.


Someone should tell him that he's wearing his belt wrong. And that getting critters embroidered on your camo shorts kinda defeats the purpose.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Thanks. I've had my eye on this for a while, on sale right now: https://www.ralphlauren.com/product...ew=99&ab=ln_men_cs_sweaters&parentPage=family
> 
> I'm tempted. I was a little put off by the color at first, but it's grown on me.


I like it, if they had my size I would consider it (though I absolutely don't need another one)


Reuben said:


> Someone should tell him that he's wearing his belt wrong. And that getting critters embroidered on your camo shorts kinda defeats the purpose.


My exact thoughts when I opened the link


----------



## Duvel

Ha ha. Yeah. And it's a very odd combination, imo, the tennis sweater and camos. Maybe it's supposed to be fashion forward or something.



Reuben said:


> Someone should tell him that he's wearing his belt wrong. And that getting critters embroidered on your camo shorts kinda defeats the purpose.


----------



## Duvel

If I'm about 42/43 in jacket size, would PRL large in that sweater be right? It is per the size chart, but is there any reason to consider sizing down?


----------



## Duvel

Speaking of sweaters... https://www.muffyaldrich.com/2014/07/wool-overs-nordic-fair-isle-sweater.html

Muffy love or hate aside, what do you think of the Wool Overs nordic offering? And anyone have experience with Wool Overs in general? I've also had my eye on their fisherman sweater in navy. For $44/each, I'm trying to think how this could not be a good deal.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Speaking of sweaters... https://www.muffyaldrich.com/2014/07/wool-overs-nordic-fair-isle-sweater.html
> 
> Muffy love or hate aside, what do you think of the Wool Overs nordic offering? And anyone have experience with Wool Overs in general? I've also had my eye on their fisherman sweater in navy. For $44/each, I'm trying to think how this could not be a good deal.


I wish you hadn't posted that, because now I have a navy/cream Nordic Fair Isle (almost identical to my LLBean Norwegian) and a cream Aran sitting in a basket that I hadn't planned on purchasing, but now that I know it exists....


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> I wish you hadn't posted that, because now I have a navy/cream Nordic Fair Isle (almost identical to my LLBean Norwegian) and a cream Aran sitting in a basket that I hadn't planned on purchasing, but now that I know it exists....


Like you, my girlfriend and I are thinking hard about making some purchases - would rather not have known about this.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Duvel said:


> And anyone have experience with Wool Overs in general?


I have heard that they run long.


----------



## Tilton

oxford cloth button down said:


> I have heard that they run long.


They run LONG. As a somewhat tall guy with a long torso who buys a long or tall in a lot of things, the Woolovers sweaters all run notably longer than I'd prefer.


----------



## orange fury

Going by the measurements they posted online, the small seems to match other sweaters I own, do y'all know if they vary outside of the posted measurements?


----------



## Duvel

I'm surprised they run long. Like OF, I find that the measurements look similar to other sweaters I wear.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Anyone else here admire Edward St. Aubyn's writing? In dress, he's a total toff. I just love this sort of shirt, esp,. in summer, with or without a tie. Can someone tell me what this stripe is called (i.e. with more blue than white?). Bengal stripes seem to be equally in width with the ground color (thus https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?86994-Common-Shirt-Stripes-Defined).


----------



## Spin Evans

BB used to call them blazer stripes, but I don't know if that's an accepted industry term, or just a marketing one. They are woefully underrepresented at retail now. I've only seen them recently at places like Gant.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I'm seeing stripes of the same width on that shirt, though. It just looks like a butcher stripe to me.


----------



## Reuben

What color pocket square and cummerbund is recommended with an ivory dinner jacket? I've heard a deep burgundy bow tie is acceptable but I'm not too sure if white linen works for the pocket square and if a black cummerbund is the right way to go.


----------



## Spin Evans

If you're referring to your DB DJ, you can forgo the cummerbund, as it is double-breasted. BTG states that ivory jackets allow for more leeway than traditional black tie: https://www.blacktieguide.com/Classic/Warm_Weather.htm


----------



## Reuben

Either double-breasted or single-breasted. I have a single-breasted version but I'll probably sell it if the DB fits when it arrives.

For some reason I have this hankering to try well-shined black tassel loafers with an ivory DB DJ but I'm not sure if that would work or not.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Reuben said:


> Either double-breasted or single-breasted. I have a single-breasted version but I'll probably sell it if the DB fits when it arrives.
> 
> For some reason I have this hankering to try well-shined black tassel loafers with an ivory DB DJ but I'm not sure if that would work or not.


Also, re: burgundy ties.

https://www.voxsartoria.com/post/42147159683/a-man-who-understands-black-tie-part-1
https://www.voxsartoria.com/post/42147263346/a-man-who-understands-black-tie-part-2


----------



## Nobleprofessor

C. Sharp said:


> PBM was out of Philadelphia.
> 
> also, on this topic, anyone familiar with PBM? I found this one and I love the pockets and the tweed, I'm just not sure if that button stance is too low as to make it look dated or not:


[/QUOTE]

PBM has been around since 1911 and used to make high quality Mens suits in the Ivy/Trade style. My first suit was one of my grandfathers old PBM. It was heavy wool, but it was smooth and incredibly well made. PBM is still around now. But, they moved their facility to Mexico. The vintage PBM's were sold directly through the company and also through the best smaller department stores. I have one I bought recently and it is surprisingly sturdy and reminds me of the OXXFORD suits I found. But, the PBM is not quite as labor intensive in its construction. It still has well made button holes, perfectly matched patterns, high quality fabrics and not a lot of padding.

Ill be looking for more PBM suits for myself.


----------



## Reuben

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Also, re: burgundy ties.
> 
> https://www.voxsartoria.com/post/42147159683/a-man-who-understands-black-tie-part-1
> https://www.voxsartoria.com/post/42147263346/a-man-who-understands-black-tie-part-2


I'm aware of the necessity of black bow ties with a black or midnight blue tuxedo, but I'd thought I'd heard that burgundy was an acceptable and somewhat traditional choice with ivory dinner jackets. I know I've worn that burgundy bow in the past with my black tuxedo but that was because I'd loaned my black one to my little brother and forgotten to bring a spare.

Edit: Yup, according to the black tie guide:



> The (Sole) Exception
> The only exception to the black bow tie rule is limited to classic warm-weather kits due to their inherent informality. In the 1940s in particular, matching sets of maroon cummerbunds and bow ties were a popular alternative to black. (Midnight blue ties were also allowed when worn with trousers of the same color.) Today, the only hope that a grown man has for pulling off this look is to follow the classic warm-weather rules to the letter: jackets should be off-white, shirts should have turndown collars, the set's color must be a genuine maroon and, most importantly, ties should be self-tied. Wearing a pre-tied scarlet bow and cummerbund set with a modern wing-collar shirt and bleached white coat will virtually guarantee that you spend your evening taking other guests' drink orders or being asked what time your band starts playing.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Lord Elgin said:


> Anyone know more about these Florsheim Royal Imperial shoes? I bought them from ebay and didn't see then from the seller's pics that the toe cap and ankle are of different grade of leather and sturdier than the rest of the shoes. Is it just the design or is there some inner meaning to this, i.e. are these intended for a more formal use (black tie, white tie), dancing, whatever? Any ideas? Thanks in advance!


I think you may have bought those from me! Or at least they look exactly like a pair I sold in very similar condition. Did you buy those from THENOBLEPROFESSOR?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

orange fury said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on doeskin blazers? Lands End is offering one right now with patch pockets that I'm liking, but I don't think I've ever handled a doeskin garment in person. Link:
> 
> And I know the lapels are super skinny from the pic, but I think the proportions are the same as the oxford cloth jacket I have from them


I like Doeskin. I want a fall/winter blazer with a little texture. Doeskin is on my list. Doeskin is a medium weight wool with a short soft nap. It is a little more refined looking than flannel wool. I know the suggestions below are a bit more pricey than the LE blazer, but I think that the extra dough would be worth it.

OF, consider this doeskin from J.Press:

If this is available in your size it is a deal! J.Press Flannel Wool: https://www.jpressonline.com/classic-trim-fit-blazer-flannel-wool-midnight-navy-3b/


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Reuben said:


> I'm aware of the necessity of black bow ties with a black or midnight blue tuxedo, but I'd thought I'd heard that burgundy was an acceptable and somewhat traditional choice with ivory dinner jackets. I know I've worn that burgundy bow in the past with my black tuxedo but that was because I'd loaned my black one to my little brother and forgotten to bring a spare.
> 
> Edit: Yup, according to the black tie guide:


Well, I think it's a gray area. But I'd rather see a black tie and a non-black cummerbund.


----------



## ThePopinjay

oxford cloth button down said:


> I like Doeskin. I want a fall/winter blazer with a little texture. Doeskin is on my list. Doeskin is a medium weight wool with a short soft nap. It is a little more refined looking than flannel wool. I know the suggestions below are a bit more pricey than the LE blazer, but I think that the extra dough would be worth it.


I had a doeskin for a while, very nice and soft. Now I have a Southwick worsted flannel that I like a little more. Then I have my Corbin hopsack and Brooks cashmere too so I think I'm set with navy blazers.


----------



## Duvel

Is anybody familiar with the style and quality of the Hunter and Coggins blazer? https://hunterandcoggins.com/tops/mens-blazers

I used to go into this great little store fairly often when I lived in Asheville, for things like caps, hats, and the occasional sweater. I never checked their suit and blazer section though. I now live about 1,000 miles away, and I'm in the market for some SCs and blazers.

Any experience with this, or any opinions/thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Does anyone have experience with Crockett & Jones PTBs? There's an 11D pair on eBay. As it happens, I've worn 11D Florsheim Imperial longwings and 11E Park Aves. I realize the "Will this item fit me?" Qestion is usually pointless...


----------



## Topsider

Duvel said:


> Is anybody familiar with the style and quality of the Hunter and Coggins blazer? https://hunterandcoggins.com/tops/mens-blazers
> 
> I used to go into this great little store fairly often when I lived in Asheville, for things like caps, hats, and the occasional sweater. I never checked their suit and blazer section though. I now live about 1,000 miles away, and I'm in the market for some SCs and blazers.
> 
> Any experience with this, or any opinions/thoughts? Thanks.


Dunno, but it's a poly-wool blend (mostly poly). For $15 more, I'd step up to their 100% wool blazer by Hardwick.

https://hunterandcoggins.com/catalog/hardwick-blazers


----------



## zcm

Got this BB air force blue blazer off ebay recently. Trying to decide if I should have it taken in more and the sleeves shortened. Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but what are your thoughts?


----------



## ThePopinjay

No, if you have it taken in you'll lose those clean straight lines. That's an exceptionally good fit for a sack. Sleeves look good too. I'd say your shirt sleeves might be a little short though.


----------



## Topsider

Ditto. Leave it alone.


----------



## Ensiferous

zcm said:


> Got this BB air force blue blazer


 It looks really good as-is, and even better, such a triple patch blazer is truly a great find.


----------



## gamma68

Ensiferous said:


> It looks really good as-is, and even better, such a triple patch blazer is truly a great find.


Agreed. The blazer looks great. I've been seeking a triple patch 3/2 navy blazer for quite some time.


----------



## zcm

Thanks all. This is my first actual "sack" coat. It seems to fit quite differently than my other sports jackets / blazers. I like it.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Anybody have a favorite tutorial on narrowing pants from the knee down?


----------



## Duvel

Wow, ZCM, I think that is spot on! I wouldn't touch a thing on that jacket. You could show more shirt-sleeve but I think that has more to do with the shirt. 

If you don't mind, can you give details on sizing? I'm in the market for a sack, too, and it's been a while since I've had to buy one for myself. (My parents bought my last when I was in high school.)


----------



## hardline_42

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Anybody have a favorite tutorial on narrowing pants from the knee down?


I don't have a tutorial but I do this to most of my pants. It's fairly simple. Use an existing pair of pants or simply calculate the measurements that work best for you and compare them to the pants you wish to alter. Simply split the difference in two among the side seams and run a stitch inboard of the existing seams to arrive at the new measurements. You should ease the new stitch into the existing seam at the knee as smoothly as possible. Then, rip the old seam, press the seam allowances flat and hem your pants.


----------



## Reuben

So the ivory dinner jacket that led to my earlier questions has arrived and I wanted to ask y'all's verdict on keeping or returning it. It's short, but not comically so and I seem to recall that ventless jackets are typically cut on the shorter side anyway. The sleeves will need to be let down about an inch and about a quarter inch each and as a result of being ventless it does seem a touch tight around the rump. What do y'all think, good enough to keep and have tailored or does it need to find a different home?


----------



## Topsider

Trust your instincts. It's too short.


----------



## Reuben

"Search your heart, you know it to be true"?


----------



## Spin Evans

The shortness is borderline, but I do think that the tightness is noticeable.


----------



## ThePopinjay

The shortness of it would get to me. I like my jackets to hit right at my thumb, I feel like I'd end up keeping it and then never wear it because I'm not totally happy with it. That's totally just me though.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I wouldn't wear it, but that's not what you're asking, right? I can see like 1" of wrist on you. If you're young, enjoying this sort of look is your prerogative; on me, at 6'1", it looks like I outgrew something I've had since high school. It's a "look," that's for sure, though not a popular one 'round here:


----------



## Reuben

Oh, I'd definitely get the sleeves let down, there's a good 3" of fabric in the cuff. That being said, I have to agree it's just too short. The pockets are high enough to be a spare set of ribs.


----------



## orange fury

So I bought two of the Lands End tailored fit doeskin blazer, to see which would fit better:

38R (my normal size)-


40R-


Ill need the sleeves let out a touch on the 38R (not a big deal), but I feel like the 40R is too boxy in the body. Thoughts/comments appreciated


----------



## Fading Fast

OF, definitely the 38R as the shoulders and chest look great in that and too big in the 40R. Sleeve length is easy to fix, shoulders and chest much, much harder. Nice jacket.


----------



## Duvel

OF, when you say normal size, do you mean what you usually buy? Or as measured? In other words, do you measure a 38?

That's the dilemma I always have, with a jacket or suit from any maker, and it's especially difficult to make the determination online. In other words, per most measurement charts, I should be in a 44R but in reality a 42R is better. Sometimes. Sometimes not. And that's the maddening thing--this seems to vary not only from maker to maker but also within choices offered by the same maker. And just as maddening, both sizes in the same jacket can look relatively good, depending on what I value about the jacket. 

Myself, I don't see a lot of difference between the two sizes you're showing. The 40R is a little roomier looking--but the thing is, I don't think it looks bad at all.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> OF, when you say normal size, do you mean what you usually buy? Or as measured? In other words, do you measure a 38?
> 
> That's the dilemma I always have, with a jacket or suit from any maker, and it's especially difficult to make the determination online. In other words, per most measurement charts, I should be in a 44R but in reality a 42R is better. Sometimes. Sometimes not. And that's the maddening thing--this seems to vary not only from maker to maker but also within choices offered by the same maker. And just as maddening, both sizes in the same jacket can look relatively good, depending on what I value about the jacket.
> 
> Myself, I don't see a lot of difference between the two sizes you're showing. The 40R is a little roomier looking--but the thing is, I don't think it looks bad at all.


Its both, I measure a 38R and usually buy them (I have a few exceptions where a 40R measured the same as a 38R, but they're vintage jackets). I do have a 38R blazer that's horribly boxy on me since losing weight, so it varies by maker


----------



## Duvel

Thanks, OF. At the risk of getting too personal, does your chest measure 38"? Or less?


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

I was fortunate enough to find 2 LLB seersucker shirts at my local thrift, long sleeve, button down, one red and one green. Could someone provide suggestions as to what I should wear with them, and should I iron them? Thanks!


----------



## Fading Fast

ThatDudeOrion said:


> I was fortunate enough to find 2 LLB seersucker shirts at my local thrift, long sleeve, button down, one red and one green. Could someone provide suggestions as to what I should wear with them, and should I iron them? Thanks!


The easy choice is summer-weight stone- or khaki-colored chinos, any Trad summer shoe - boat or camp moc, for example - and a navy blazer - or a penny loafer or buck if you want to be a bit more dressy. I would avoid wearing them with anything seersucker as that would look odd in a seersucker overkill way.

And no to ironing would be my call as that would mess up the natural puckering of the seersucker. At the risk of facing Jovan's wrath, I would steam the shirts if they need it (N.B. a hand-held steamer is the best and one of the least expensive investments you can make if you are trying to dress better as it will solve a lot of wrinkle problems that otherwise need the work of an iron or the expense of professional pressing - and it stresses the clothes less).

good luck and enjoy.


----------



## Laudams

Hello Gentlemen!

I am kind of new to AAAC so I was wondering what matchy-matchy means in terms of mens suits and is it bad?
(I hope this is the right place where to ask this?)

By the way, this forum is just amazing!


----------



## orange fury

Laudams said:


> Hello Gentlemen!
> 
> I am kind of new to AAAC so I was wondering what matchy-matchy means in terms of mens suits and is it bad?
> (I hope this is the right place where to ask this?)
> 
> By the way, this forum is just amazing!


First and foremost, welcome to AAAC!

The way it's used most often is in reference to ties and pocket squares, such as the matched sets you find at department stores (or what most of the population wears to prom or at weddings). A pocket square and tie should complement each other, like wearing a red an blue repp stripe with a patterned pocket square that has red as a key element, but is not the only color. This is also why a white cotton or linen TV fold goes with just about anything.

With overall clothing, matchy-matchy would be in regards trying to wear a khaki sportcoat and khaki chinos that are close in color, but obviously not a suit.

As to if it's bad- around here, it generally is. Plus, those sets usually include pre-tied ties, which are equally looked down upon.


----------



## Reuben

Is there any guide to identifying color of shell from serial number?


----------



## zcm

I saw this jacket on ebay with drop in patch pockets. Each of the pockets have a seam going through them. Anyone ever see this or know why it exists?


----------



## Topsider

zcm said:


> I saw this jacket on ebay with drop in patch pockets. Each of the pockets have a seam going through them. Anyone ever see this or know why it exists?


So it can match up with the darts...?

J/K. The "seam" looks like a small expandable area, to give the pocket room to grow if something bulky is placed inside.


----------



## Jovan

Looks like an inverse box pleat to me.


----------



## zcm

Topsider said:


> So it can match up with the darts...?
> 
> J/K. The "seam" looks like a small expandable area, to give the pocket room to grow if something bulky is placed inside.


Interesting. I am not familiar with the brand "Lavin Paris" I was thinking maybe it was something French... if they even are French


----------



## zcm

Jovan said:


> Looks like an inverse box pleat to me.


So literally so you can put stuff in there... this place is just a wealth of knowledge. Thanks!


----------



## Topsider

Jovan said:


> Looks like an inverse box pleat to me.


Probably.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Inverted_box_pleat_pocket.png


----------



## zcm

The jacket has it on the other pockets too. Is this the jacket made to replace cargo pants or what?


----------



## Orgetorix

It's often referred to as a bellows pocket, though technically that may be the term for a pocket that has an expansion gusset around the edges as well.

At any rate, it was a common feature for many years, usually on more casual suit jackets and sport coats. You'd often see those kinds of pockets on jackets that had belted/action/bi-swing backs.


----------



## orange fury

Anyone familiar with the Brooks Brothers "university" line, specifically the ties? From what little I've found it's seems like it was better than 346 but below some of the mainline stuff.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Does anyone here put creases in the sleeves of their oxfords/dress shirts? I always have (and probably always will, I like the square look it gives me) and was just wondering if anyone did the same or if you iron them creaseless.


----------



## FLMike

ThePopinjay said:


> Does anyone here put creases in the sleeves of their oxfords/dress shirts? I always have (and probably always will, I like the square look it gives me) and was just wondering if anyone did the same or if you iron them creaseless.


My dry cleaners definitely does (my dress shirts, which are pinpoint or broadcloth....oxfords, not always).


----------



## hardline_42

ThePopinjay said:


> Does anyone here put creases in the sleeves of their oxfords/dress shirts? I always have (and probably always will, I like the square look it gives me) and was just wondering if anyone did the same or if you iron them creaseless.


When I actually iron them (which is rarely) it's always with a crease. It seems like extra work to avoid creasing the sleeves.


----------



## Reuben

Rather like James Bond and full Windsors, I've always found a neatly-ironed oxford to be slightly offputting. They don't look right to my eye without a little crumple to them.


----------



## Duvel

I tend not to iron my OCBDs unless the wrinkling is excessive. It's one shirt that I think looks better slightly rumpled. About the only thing I might otherwise touch on an OCBD is the collar, if it's too rumpled.

I hang dry my OCBDs, then keep them folded on a shelf, so they usually have that right off the shelf look while not looking like I pulled it out of the laundry basket.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Reuben said:


> Rather like James Bond and full Windsors, I've always found a neatly-ironed oxford to be slightly offputting. They don't look right to my eye without a little crumple to them.


Uh oh, I always keep mine ironed. I iron everything, khakis and oxfords.


----------



## zcm

ThePopinjay said:


> Uh oh, I always keep mine ironed. I iron everything, khakis and oxfords.


I'm big on ironing as well. IDK why buy I can't handle leaving the house without a crisp looking shirt even it is wrinkled by the time I get to work.

Have you or anyone else ever used a sleeve board when ironing your shirts?


----------



## Reuben

ThePopinjay said:


> Uh oh, I always keep mine ironed. I iron everything, khakis and oxfords.


Flannel shirts even? The horror.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Reuben said:


> Flannel shirts even? The horror.


I don't own any flannel shirts I don't think.


----------



## Reuben

ThePopinjay said:


> I don't own any flannel shirts I don't think.


Oh, you're missing out. I'd be taking full advantage of your cooler weather to expand my flannel collection if I lived up there. Gitman's made some great all-cotton flannels, brooks has a dressy flannel-ish in a cotton/cashmere blend, and the gold standard is probably Viyella wool/cotton or Bean's cotton chamois.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Reuben said:


> Oh, you're missing out. I'd be taking full advantage of your cooler weather to expand my flannel collection if I lived up there. Gitman's made some great all-cotton flannels, brooks has a dressy flannel-ish in a cotton/cashmere blend, and the gold standard is probably Viyella wool/cotton or Bean's cotton chamois.


Of course I'm familiar with them, and do enjoy them (esp. some of the nice Viyellas we have at the shop) but I just get very little wear out of sportshirts. Anything that isn't a solid color or stripe just about doesn't get worn.


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> *Oh, you're missing out.* I'd be taking full advantage of your cooler weather to expand my flannel collection if I lived up there. Gitman's made some great all-cotton flannels, brooks has a dressy flannel-ish in a cotton/cashmere blend, and the gold standard is probably Viyella wool/cotton or Bean's cotton chamois.


This was a exactly my thought when reading his post. If it's cold outside and you're sitting around the house all day, I don't think there's much that's more comfortable than a flannel shirt.


----------



## Reuben

orange fury said:


> Exactly my thought. if it's cold outside and you're sitting around the house all day, I don't think there's much that's more comfortable than a flannel shirt.


Flannel shirt, cotton knit sweater, a pair of bean slippers and that pair of khakis that were too worn-put to be seen in public were my foul-weather fireplace-sitting attire in the mountains last winter. I just need to break in a new pair of chinos now that I've finally tossed the old one.


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> Flannel shirt, cotton knit sweater, a pair of bean slippers and that pair of khakis that were too worn-put to be seen in public were my foul-weather fireplace-sitting attire in the mountains last winter. I just need to break in a new pair of chinos now that I've finally tossed the old one.


Also, if going outside and it's especially cold- flannel shirt under LLB Norwegian. Flannel lined chinos for bonus points, Bean Boots for tradly nirvana.

seriously, I was dragged out to a Christmas parade last year at night in the high teens/low 20s and it was drizzling, the flannel shirt/Norwegian/lined chinos was all i I needed, and I get cold easily


----------



## orange fury

Opinion needed: if two bow ties are the same exact pattern (and both twill), and one is Brooks 346 for $30 and one is thetiebar.com for $15, which would you go for?


----------



## sskim3

orange fury said:


> Opinion needed: if two bow ties are the same exact pattern (and both twill), and one is Brooks 346 for $30 and one is thetiebar.com for $15, which would you go for?


Cheaper option.


----------



## Spin Evans

I think those of us from perpetually hot climes fetishize our y̶a̶n̶k̶e̶e̶ northern brethren's cold weather options. I know I do.


----------



## Jovan

orange fury said:


> Opinion needed: if two bow ties are the same exact pattern (and both twill), and one is Brooks 346 for $30 and one is thetiebar.com for $15, which would you go for?


Hard to say. My last bow from TTB came with a few snags in the fabric and the repp weave just didn't seem all that tight for lack of a better word. May have just been a fluke though.


----------



## wwilson

Spin Evans said:


> I think those of us from perpetually hot climes fetishize our y̶a̶n̶k̶e̶e̶ northern brethren's cold weather options. I know I do.


Guilty.


----------



## Jovan

Silly question but why the f*** do the bartacked tags keep coming off my ties? I swear, even on Polo ties that were previously owned for years, they tend to have one corner come undone within a few months of me using them. I have plenty of ties in rotation and treat them gently so... what's the deal? Am I just cursed?


----------



## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> Silly question but why the f*** do the bartacked tags keep coming off my ties? I swear, even on Polo ties that were previously owned for years, they tend to have one corner come undone within a few months of me using them. I have plenty of ties in rotation and treat them gently so... what's the deal? Am I just cursed?


Are you sure they're bartacked and not just hand-stitched at the corners?


----------



## Jovan

Ah, you are right. My terminology was faulty. Hand stitched in the corners is a better way to say it.


----------



## eagle2250

^^LOL.
....but, regardless of terminology, you do seem cursed, my friend. Note to self: "Do not lend ties to Jovan!"


----------



## hardline_42

Jovan said:


> Ah, you are right. My terminology was faulty. Hand stitched in the corners is a better way to say it.


Do you use the label as a blade keeper? I find that if a tie doesn't have a self-fabric keeper and I use the label as a keeper, the label always falls off in short order. If this is your case, I'd say embrace either tie bars or a loose tie blade. I prefer the loose blade.


----------



## Luke50001

I was recently handed down an old pair of Allen Edmonds Woodstock kiltie loafers in black and brown from my father, and to my eye these shoes don't work with khaki. Would anyone wear these shoes with shades of khaki? Or is black with khaki ever considered tradly for that matter?


----------



## Duvel

Is the rugby shirt considered "trad"? Or Ivy, prep? Or something else?


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Luke50001 said:


> I was recently handed down an old pair of Allen Edmonds Woodstock kiltie loafers in black and brown from my father, and to my eye these shoes don't work with khaki. Would anyone wear these shoes with shades of khaki? Or is black with khaki ever considered tradly for that matter?


I have seen lots of men wear the woodstock with khaki. Plus, it has brown trim. It's a little bit fussy for me. But, I have a pair and I wear them occasionally. They do have the advantage of pairing with lots of colors.


----------



## Duvel

Disregard. Nice what a little searching will turn up: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?121386-Rugby-shirts



Duvel said:


> Is the rugby shirt considered "trad"? Or Ivy, prep? Or something else?


----------



## Luke50001

I would consider the rugby a bit more of an ivy thing.. but that could just be me. Regardless I like the way they look, and wish I could only find some that fit me!


----------



## Duvel

Right. I think of them as Ivy, too, I guess. Have you tried Lands' End or Polo RL? I have two by PRL now, and the fit is great. I've heard good things about the LE ruggers.

I'm looking forward to some fall weather to start wearing mine.



Luke50001 said:


> I would consider the rugby a bit more of an ivy thing.. but that could just be me. Regardless I like the way they look, and wish I could only find some that fit me!


----------



## Luke50001

I had bought a navy red one like in that thread you posted from Brooks brothers online, but it was too large for my tastes. I do like land's end (not a fan of the pony) for some things. Maybe I will give their rugby a try. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Peak and Pine

hardline_42 said:


> I find that if a tie doesn't have a self-fabric keeper and I use the label as a keeper, the label always falls off in short order. If this is your case, I'd say embrace either tie bars or a loose tie blade. I prefer the loose blade.


There's a third option, but I'm hesitant to mention it because anytime I bring up anything involving needle and thread I think the entire forum puts me on ignore, but glutton for abuse that I am, I'll try once more:

SEW THE DAMN TAG BACK ON!

There, I feel better now.


----------



## Jovan

I intend to. Just wondering why it happens in the first place is all.


----------



## orange fury

I asked about this over in acquisitions and didn't get much of a response. I picked up this Brooks Brothers shirt at Marshall's yesterday on multiple markdown clearance. This is one of those red/blue tag ones that was discussed a while back because of the exorbitantly inflated "retail price" of $225.00. I wasn't sure if I should keep it or not and wanted to get the forum's opinion- I like it, but my wife was lukewarm on it, which makes me wonder if she's seeing something I don't. It's obviously a sport shirt, so if I keep it it'll be worn with no tie and either with a blazer or sleeves rolled up. Thoughts appreciated:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...3-4730-96F6-50619BEE1B65_zpsi9vblxqz.jpg.html


----------



## Topsider

I'm not crazy about the grid-like pattern, and I generally prefer plaids with more color. But, that's just me.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I like that shirt just fine. Is it possible she's starting to think you have too many shirts?

I don't know if I'd call rugby shirts strictly _Ivy,_ since I think they got big a little after the "heyday" -- I associate them with that sort of rugged Ivy/pre-preppy look of the middle '70s. That's an excellent pedigree, though, and certainly trad enough.

Note that I don't care how trad something is anymore.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Note that I don't care how trad something is anymore.


Ditto, I've never been one to throw the word trad around. I like things that are nice, I like american style, so my style is pretty trad I suppose. But I've never been one to not wear something because it's not "trad"


----------



## orange fury

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I like that shirt just fine. Is it possible she's starting to think you have too many shirts?
> 
> *I don't know if I'd call rugby shirts strictly Ivy, since I think they got big a little after the "heyday" -- I associate them with that sort of rugged Ivy/pre-preppy look of the middle '70s. That's an excellent pedigree, though, and certainly trad enough.
> *
> Note that I don't care how trad something is anymore.


Wait, was this about my BB shirt? Because that's a pinpoint buttondown, not a rugby


----------



## Luke50001

orange fury said:


> Wait, was this about my BB shirt? Because that's a pinpoint buttondown, not a rugby


No, he was just replying to me and Duvel about rugby shirts from the last page.

I like the shirt though. I'd keep it if I were you!


----------



## Duvel

I like the shirt, OF. I think YRR was responding both to you about your shirt and to the previous posts about rugby shirts.


----------



## Fading Fast

It's okay. The pattern doesn't excite me (but that is pure taste - there is nothing "wrong" or "weird" about the pattern) and the fit is not as good as other shirts you have like your RLs or LEs (the arm hole opening seems too big or something). 

Last thought, if I am really questioning if I like something I bought, then I return it and, so far, have never wished that I had kept it.


----------



## orange fury

Luke50001 said:


> No, he was just replying to me and Duvel about rugby shirts from the last page.





Duvel said:


> I like the shirt, OF. I think YRR was responding both to you about your shirt and to the previous posts about rugby shirts.


Lol that's what I get for trying to post stuff at almost midnight, my fault.



Fading Fast said:


> It's okay. The pattern doesn't excite me (but that is pure taste - there is nothing "wrong" or "weird" about the pattern) and the fit is not as good as other shirts you have like your RLs or LEs (the arm hole opening seems too big or something).
> 
> *Last thought, if I am really questioning if I like something I bought, then I return it and, so far, have never wished that I had kept it*.


Thats what I'm starting to err towards. The shirt would have to be altered, but I think it's deciding whether or not I like the pattern


----------



## Orgetorix

I like it. It's a good looking shirt.


----------



## Duvel

OF, I wouldn't alter that shirt at all. It looks good on you as it is. I think tailoring might throw off the proportions.

It could just be that you're used to a slimmer sleeve, but these sleeves are fine, in my opinion. The little bit of extra room you're noticing would be less noticeable, I think, if you rolled the sleeves--that would help with the proportions.

I'd call it good, and wear that sucker! (Roll the sleeves, though. For some reason, buttoned sleeves with shorts looks off.)


----------



## Duvel

To cuff or not to cuff? I realize this topic could be debated in a thread of its own, but maybe it fits here. I don't own any cuffed chinos, and I'm wondering if I "should," if I am leaning to a true "trad" wardrobe. From that point of view, how necessary? Just personal preference? Thanks.


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

Couple questions
1. Do we have to stop wearing summer items like madras, red chinos, seersucker, etc. after labor day? Or does that rule only apply to white?
2. I just recently acquired some cap toe bals and am wondering about the polishing them-I suppose its a given that the toe/heel caps are supposed to be polished to a high/mirror shine, but I'm curious about what I'm supposed to do with the rest of the shoe like the vamp and quarter? Should I try to shine those as much as I can, or leave them in somewhat of a matte/dull finish thus emphasizing the high shine of the heel and toe caps? And I take it that straight-across lacing is the preference for bals? Thanks!


----------



## Duvel

I'll take the first one: No. For one thing, you don't have to do or not do anything; there are no rules, only guidelines, generally accepted standards, and someone else's advice. For another, "that rule" doesn't apply to white, either. I use a couple of guidelines for myself: 1) weather--if it's warm, then madras, seersucker, and the like are good choices; and 2) context--what's the situation *and *what do I feel like wearing. I wear white all year round.



ThatDudeOrion said:


> Couple questions
> *1. Do we have to stop wearing summer items like madras, red chinos, seersucker, etc. after labor day? Or does that rule only apply to white?*
> 2. I just recently acquired some cap toe bals and am wondering about the polishing them-I suppose its a given that the toe/heel caps are supposed to be polished to a high/mirror shine, but I'm curious about what I'm supposed to do with the rest of the shoe like the vamp and quarter? Should I try to shine those as much as I can, or leave them in somewhat of a matte/dull finish thus emphasizing the high shine of the heel and toe caps? And I take it that straight-across lacing is the preference for bals? Thanks!


----------



## drlivingston

ThatDudeOrion said:


> 1. Do we have to stop wearing summer items like madras, red chinos, seersucker, etc. after labor day? Or does that rule only apply to white?


I believe that your clothing choices should be dictated by the climate instead of the calendar. After Labor Day, we will still be in the 90's. After Labor Day, you can bet that I will still be wearing seersucker, Nantucket red pants, linen, and plenty of madras.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> To cuff or not to cuff? I realize this topic could be debated in a thread of its own, but maybe it fits here. I don't own any cuffed chinos, and I'm wondering if I "should," if I am leaning to a true "trad" wardrobe. From that point of view, how necessary? Just personal preference? Thanks.


Hold on one second...

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...D-42BE-B7C1-8F601DC58758_zpsqhlhv6cm.jpg.html

...okay, go ahead. This should be entertaining .

Entirely subjective personal preference: I don't own a pair of cuffed pants and prefer flat fronts. Many will wear flat fronts with cuffs, but it's not a look that I like on me. I can understand the usefulness of cuffs to weigh down lighter fabrics and create better drape (linen/seersucker/etc), but I still like no cuffs.


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

Thanks for the feedback about the summer wear.
Understanding I'm new here, I have only recently begun to appreciate cuffed trousers, but they are now my favorite, for a couple reasons. I know most folks talk about how much they help the drape of the pants, but in my limited experience that seems to only affect wool trousers, or perhaps the lightest of weight twills, it doesn't seem to have an effect on the way my chinos drape, YMMV. I like the look of cuffed chinos, as to my eye is more trad, and less often seen these days. I also do my own pants hemming, and I like the fact that there is a margin for error which exists when installing cuffs. I can measure and cut a pair of trousers for cuffs and have lots of wiggle room to let them down or take them up further if the first attempt doesn't finish to the exact length I was hoping for. With non-cuffed trousers, sure you can take them up further if the finished length isn't right, but you can't let them down, or at least not very much, if they shrink over time or you didn't measure quite right the first time. I also like how all the stitching for cuffed trousers is hidden, either behind the turned up portion, or "stitch in the ditch" of the vertical seam on the leg, this makes my life easier when it comes to finding the correct shade of tan/khaki thread for the various pants I pick up at the thrift. So I'm a big fan of cuffs, for both aesthetic and utilitarian reasons, and would probably have them on all my pants, except my whole wardrobe basically comes from thrifting, so if the finished inseam on a pair of pants I pick up is <32, I've generally got no choice in how I finish the hems, but 32+ I will generally have enough fabric to install cuffs and do so.



Duvel said:


> To cuff or not to cuff? I realize this topic could be debated in a thread of its own, but maybe it fits here. I don't own any cuffed chinos, and I'm wondering if I "should," if I am leaning to a true "trad" wardrobe. From that point of view, how necessary? Just personal preference? Thanks.


----------



## zcm

orange fury said:


> Hold on one second...
> 
> https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...D-42BE-B7C1-8F601DC58758_zpsqhlhv6cm.jpg.html
> 
> ...okay, go ahead. This should be entertaining .
> 
> Entirely subjective personal preference: I don't own a pair of cuffed pants and prefer flat fronts. Many will wear flat fronts with cuffs, but it's not a look that I like on me. I can understand the usefulness of cuffs to weigh down lighter fabrics and create better drape (linen/seersucker/etc), but I still like no cuffs.


So you just had popcorn in your lunch today? or what?


----------



## orange fury

zcm said:


> So you just had popcorn in your lunch today? or what?


Haha yes, it was way too good of an opportunity to pass up though. :biggrin:


----------



## Duvel

Sorry, I did not mean to initiate a huge debate or anything. I think I'm leaning toward hemming the lightweight twill pants; I can see the point about adding some weight to pants like these. Not sure I'm entirely sold on cuffing regular chinos, though.

OF, just as an aside, just about every outfit photo you post looks like something I wear. You have remarkably good taste.  Disregarding brands, that popcorn outfit, including tie but sans the ring, could have come straight from my closet.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Sorry, I did not mean to initiate a huge debate or anything. I think I'm leaning toward hemming the lightweight twill pants; I can see the point about adding some weight to pants like these. Not sure I'm entirely sold on cuffing regular chinos, though.
> 
> OF, just as an aside, just about every outfit photo you post looks like something I wear. You have remarkably good taste.  Disregarding brands, that popcorn outfit, including tie but sans the ring, could have come straight from my closet.


Haha I was just giving you a hard time (and was poking fun at how opinionated AAAT can get lol). People on both sides of the cuff/no cuff debate have been very opinionated in the past, which has made for interesting thread derailments lol.

and thanks! I generally take my WAYWT pic as soon as I get to work, then lose the jacket and look like this unless I'm going somewhere. I sit by a bank of windows facing a building with mirrored windows, so it can get kind of warm, depending on what our AC is doing and the time of year.


----------



## Kreiger

orange fury said:


> I asked about this over in acquisitions and didn't get much of a response. I picked up this Brooks Brothers shirt at Marshall's yesterday on multiple markdown clearance. This is one of those red/blue tag ones that was discussed a while back because of the exorbitantly inflated "retail price" of $225.00. I wasn't sure if I should keep it or not and wanted to get the forum's opinion- I like it, but my wife was lukewarm on it, which makes me wonder if she's seeing something I don't. It's obviously a sport shirt, so if I keep it it'll be worn with no tie and either with a blazer or sleeves rolled up. Thoughts appreciated:


I'd keep it. I actually quite like it.


----------



## Fading Fast

drlivingston said:


> I believe that your clothing choices should be dictated by the climate instead of the calendar. After Labor Day, we will still be in the 90's. After Labor Day, you can bet that I will still be wearing seersucker, Nantucket red pants, linen, and plenty of madras.


I agree with this with the one caveat that time of year in the Northeast can impact it slightly.

For example, a decade or so ago, we had a crazy warm several days (into the 80s) in November in NYC. While I had no problem wearing lighter weight suits to work and poplin chinos and short-sleave polos casually, it would have seemed out-of-place, IMHO, to have broken out my seersucker suit or other hard-core summer clothes. I will wear them into October if it is still hot and summer clothes haven't really been put away yet, but by Thanksgiving, regardless of temperature, I think a seersucker (or other full-on summer attire) would look awkward.

It's not about some rule, just a feel I had for the situation.


----------



## Luke50001

ThatDudeOrion said:


> Couple questions
> 1. Do we have to stop wearing summer items like madras, red chinos, seersucker, etc. after labor day? Or does that rule only apply to white?
> 2. I just recently acquired some cap toe bals and am wondering about the polishing them-I suppose its a given that the toe/heel caps are supposed to be polished to a high/mirror shine, but I'm curious about what I'm supposed to do with the rest of the shoe like the vamp and quarter? Should I try to shine those as much as I can, or leave them in somewhat of a matte/dull finish thus emphasizing the high shine of the heel and toe caps? And I take it that straight-across lacing is the preference for bals? Thanks!


Here down in Tennessee, the rule for seersucker is the strict one that most adhere to : Easter - Labor Day or for the even more traditional deep south convention, Memorial Day - Labor Day.

Most people wear white trousers from Easter - Labor Day, but some wear them according to temperature.

Colored chinos (reds included) are generally worn according to climate. I.e when the temperature is up you'll still see GTH shades about. Reds around here are basically worn as long as one can go comfortably sockless, though I've seen the occasional rogue wear them with duck boots in the winter.

I personally adhere to the seersucker and white for labor day rule, keep my primary color GTH chinos and madras out as long as it's warm (70+ish), and faded colors such as Nantucket reds go 3 seasons when it's warm enough to go sockless. It's really just a matter of taste, and how steadfast you are willing to adhere to old tradition. (Big deal in the south especially with seersucker)

Of course if you live in a tropical or extremely arrid climate, do as you wish!

I relish wearing seersucker and white in the Caribbean circa December of every year..


----------



## Duvel

Who makes up these rules, anyway? Who is responsible for posting a public notice, as for the Tennessee rule about seersucker? Is it published in the newspapers, posted on the Post Office bulletin board? What happens if you violate the rule? Is there detention?


----------



## Orgetorix

It's handed down from parent to child over the generations, and if you break it, people look at you, shake their heads sadly, and say, "Bless his heart. His momma didn't raise him right."


----------



## Duvel

A Southern thing. I've been there.


----------



## Duvel

Contrarily, I find a few rules listed here that I seem to adhere to: https://bit.ly/1lxyqCU

I'm not sure if I'm being ironic.


----------



## Luke50001

Duvel said:


> Who makes up these rules, anyway? Who is responsible for posting a public notice, as for the Tennessee rule about seersucker? Is it published in the newspapers, posted on the Post Office bulletin board? What happens if you violate the rule? Is there detention?


Yes. After my first attempt to wear a seersucker suit to school in 3rd grade mid November, I was given 3 days of detention. Second time I was expelled. Never again.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Who makes up these rules, anyway? Who is responsible for posting a public notice, as for the Tennessee rule about seersucker? Is it published in the newspapers, posted on the Post Office bulletin board? What happens if you violate the rule? Is there detention?


No trust fund for you!



Orgetorix said:


> It's handed down from parent to child over the generations, and if you break it, people look at you, shake their heads sadly, and say, "Bless his heart. His momma didn't raise him right."


I was unaware you knew my grandmother.


----------



## Duvel

Good one!



orange fury said:


> No trust fund for you!


----------



## Dmontez

Double breasted blazer with open BDC. Yes or no?


----------



## AJB

OF,

How do you get your sleeves to look so neat? Any time I try to, it always ends up looking more like a burrito rolled by a giant ogre. Any advice?


----------



## orange fury

Dmontez said:


> Double breasted blazer with open BDC. Yes or no?


No. IMHO a DB blazer is too formal for an open collar, I tried it once while getting dressed and it looked jarringly incomplete. A spread or semi spread looks better, but still not something I would do personally. If I want a SC with an open BDC, I'll just do a SB blazer.



AJB said:


> OF,
> 
> How do you get your sleeves to look so neat? Any time I try to, it always ends up looking more like a burrito rolled by a giant ogre. Any advice?


I open both the sleeve and gauntlet buttons and focus in rolling the cuff. I'll pull the cuff taut each time i fold it to keep the roll the same size and shape. Think more along the lines of "folding the cuff back" instead of "rolling the sleeve up".

...if that makes sense lol. I'll take a picture later.

EDIT: pictures.

step 1 and 2-
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...D-4926-9D80-A2D53E6E9AA0_zpstr3tsrny.jpg.html

step 3 and 4-
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...A-4674-9E3A-2C9F550F5D3B_zpspffauxae.jpg.html


----------



## ArtVandalay

Looking at a vintage pair of Bean's made in USA bucks. I've found their current offerings to run a half size to a full size big. Does anyone have any insight into the fit on vintage Bean shoes?


----------



## Dmontez

orange fury said:


> No. IMHO a DB blazer is too formal for an open collar, I tried it once while getting dressed and it looked jarringly incomplete. A spread or semi spread looks better, but still not something I would do personally. If I want a SC with an open BDC, I'll just do a SB blazer.


I did it anyways. Like I said comfort was my main concern.

https://s3.photobucket.com/user/the...3-4FF7-AD4A-A2B2B0FE701F_zpsy9qzkqob.jpg.html


----------



## Peak and Pine

Dmontez said:


> Double breasted blazer with open BDC. Yes or no?





orange fury said:


> No. IMHO a DB blazer is too formal for an open collar.





Dmontez said:


> I did it anyways. Like I said comfort was my main concern.


So why'd you ask? And whaddayamean, "Like I said, comfort is, etc." You never said anything about that, besides comfort means nothing when it comes to dress clothing. I once penciled in wingtips on my bare feet because I felt more comfy shoe-less, but everyone on the bus knew.


----------



## Topsider

Peak and Pine said:


> So why'd you ask? And whaddayamean, "Like I said, comfort is, etc." You never said anything about that, besides comfort means nothing when it comes to dress clothing.


Concur.

If it looks like crap, who cares how comfortable it is?


----------



## Dmontez

Peak and Pine said:


> So why'd you ask? And whaddayamean, "Like I said, comfort is, etc." You never said anything about that, besides comfort means nothing when it comes to dress clothing. I once penciled in wingtips on my bare feet because I felt more comfy shoe-less, but everyone on the bus knew.


I apologize when I originally posted the question it had long explanations, but I deleted that for the simple question.

I asked the question at 115 am and was up and out the door at 430am to go into a meeting that will go from 9am-10pm. I was the most dressed in the meeting. Lots of open spread collar jewel tone shirts with bad black shoes.

I can't stand the look of an open spread collar shirt and I kept my DB jacket buttoned for the most part which is exactly why I wanted to wear it.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Dmontez said:


> Lots of open spread collar jewel tone shirts with bad black shoes.


But a really nice men's room, judging from your pix. And you looked fine.


----------



## Fading Fast

Peak and Pine said:


> But a really nice men's room, judging from your pix. And you looked fine.


I'm thinking it is a high-end steak house restroom or maybe high-end hotel as a second guess.


----------



## Dmontez

Fading Fast said:


> I'm thinking it is a high-end steak house restroom or maybe high-end hotel as a second guess.


If you consider Embassy suites high end then sure.


----------



## Fading Fast

Dmontez said:


> If you consider Embassy suites high end then sure.


And I stand corrected.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Whoa. On my last vacation I slept in my car, so yes it is high end (to moi).


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Embassy suites bathrooms look just like Cheesecake Factory bathrooms.

That ain't a blazer. I'll wear my db blazer with an open collar. If that's wrong, then I guess I occasionally don't want to be right.

Cuffs are good, but if you wear your clothes like Orangefury does (on the slim side), then you might not need them.

If it feels like fall, don't wear summer fabrics.


----------



## orange fury

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Embassy suites bathrooms look just like Cheesecake Factory bathrooms.
> 
> That ain't a blazer. I'll wear my db blazer with an open collar. If that's wrong, then I guess I occasionally don't want to be right.
> 
> Cuffs are good, but if you wear your clothes like Orangefury does (on the slim side), then you might not need them.
> 
> If it feels like fall, don't wear summer fabrics.


*mic drop*


----------



## Duvel

Generally, how much room is preferable in the chest of a blazer? If I measure around 43 inches, what would be comfortable without being too big--4 more inches, i.e., 47 inches in the garment at the chest, or something more?


----------



## orange fury

I'm comfortable with 2" generally, I measure 38" under my armpits and my best fitting jackets have a P2P of 20" when measured flat


----------



## Duvel

Thanks. I'm eyeing the LE hopsack, and supposedly the 42 is 47.5 in the chest, the 44 is 49.5. I know the 40 would be too tight, though.



orange fury said:


> I'm comfortable with 2" generally, I measure 38" under my armpits and my best fitting jackets have a P2P of 20" when measured flat


----------



## orange fury

The item dimensions on LE's website IME are dead accurate, I pay attention to that over the tagged size


----------



## Duvel

Yes, I've noticed that with other items. The 47.5 chest would give me 4 inches, so I'm just trying to determine if this is going to feel huge. All of this would be much easier to determine in real life, of course.



orange fury said:


> The item dimensions on LE's website IME are dead accurate, I pay attention to that over the tagged size


----------



## mayostard

shoe care question:

I have some AE long branch in dark brown and fenway in a medium brown. I've used the standard AE dark brown creme (in the squeeze tube) on the long branches in the past, but these aren't really made to shine, so I'm wondering if I shouldn't use something like mink oil instead?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

mayostard said:


> shoe care question:
> 
> I have some AE long branch in dark brown and fenway in a medium brown. I've used the standard AE dark brown creme (in the squeeze tube) on the long branches in the past, but these aren't really made to shine, so I'm wondering if I shouldn't use something like mink oil instead?


What leather are they?


----------



## Fiddlermatt

I have a dark green sportcoat, and I am trying to plan an outfit around it. I am thinking lots of earth tones: Chocolate brown Bill's, white shirt, and dark brown/blue foulard tie. What do you all think?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I'd make the shirt a graph check or a tattersall, and might go for lighter trousers (dark tan, medium gray), but yeah. A repp with some pink in it, perhaps?

A blue or pink shirt could also work really well, or unistripes in either of those colors.


----------



## mayostard

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> What leather are they?


Neither are the regular AE calfskin. THe fenway are made of something similar to CXL, not sure if you'd call it "oiled leather" or not but they're pretty rugged. The long branch are made from full-grain boot leather like a saddleback bag.


----------



## DLW

Can one tell if a coat is part of a suit or just a sport coat by the information on the inside label. I have a BB coat I picked up as a SC off eBay but feel is really an orphan. The label has style, fabric, rsf ord, int ord numbers etc. The info in question is size, under size is 46/41. Down at the bottom of the label is printed 100% wool, 100% bemberg rayon & pant 100% viscose. The coat is reg size, 46/coat size, 41/pant size. 100 % viscose/pant lining. Am I correct?


----------



## Reuben

Tweed McVay said:


> Can one tell if a coat is part of a suit or just a sport coat by the information on the inside label. I have a BB coat I picked up as a SC off eBay but feel is really an orphan. The label has style, fabric, rsf ord, int ord numbers etc. The info in question is size, under size is 46/41. Down at the bottom of the label is printed 100% wool, 100% bemberg rayon & pant 100% viscose. The coat is reg size, 46/coat size, 41/pant size. 100 % viscose/pant lining. Am I correct?


Being an orphan doesn't AUTOMATICALLY disqualify it from working as an odd jacket, depending on the fabric it may work anyway even if it is an orphan. That being said, many/most orphans won't work well on their own.


----------



## DLW

Reuben said:


> Being an orphan doesn't AUTOMATICALLY disqualify it from working as an odd jacket, depending on the fabric it may work anyway even if it is an orphan. That being said, many/most orphans won't work well on their own.


I feel the pattern will. The fabric is a dark coco. The picture doesn't do the color justice The pattern is to small. If I've gleaned correctly from other form members it needs to be a larger pattern to work.


----------



## Reuben

Yeah, that's looking like one of those orphans that definitely won't work. You're looking for larger scale, rougher hand, and more casual fabrics with odd jackets.


----------



## DLW

Reuben said:


> Yeah, that's looking like one of those orphans that definitely won't work. You're looking for larger scale, rougher hand, and more casual fabrics with odd jackets.


Would it be mean of me and, would I be considered uncivilized, to cut off all the buttons before I send coat to the thrift?


----------



## Reuben

Nope, you paid for it. Might as well make use of what you need and it's often cheaper to buy a jacket than a whole new set of buttons.


----------



## Monocle

Tweed McVay said:


> Would it be mean of me and, would I be considered uncivilized, to cut off all the buttons before I send coat to the thrift?


A couple of thrifts in my area routinely sell orphans and blazers for $0.99 to $2.99. The clothing may be trash, but if the buttons are quality, (and there is a learning curve there) then the buy may be well worth it. I've sold vintage Burberry and other branded buttons on Etsy (granted not for a lot), but those can be invaluable to those searching for replacements for their vintage items. Pressed leather buttons are cheap and can be had for pennies brand new. Be careful with those. Its the odd metal buttons, horn, MOP and other materials that can be flipped for some lunch money, or for replacing the buttons on your own trad items, should you be so inclined. A few thrifty members here have stumbled upon some gold from time to time. So bite your buttons carefully...


----------



## DLW

Monocle said:


> A couple of thrifts in my area routinely sell orphans and blazers for $0.99 to $2.99. The clothing may be trash, but if the buttons are quality, (and there is a learning curve there) then the buy may be well worth it. I've sold vintage Burberry and other branded buttons on Etsy (granted not for a lot), but those can be invaluable to those searching for replacements for their vintage items. Pressed leather buttons are cheap and can be had for pennies brand new. Be careful with those. Its the odd metal buttons, horn, MOP and other materials that can be flipped for some lunch money, or for replacing the buttons on your own trad items, should you be so inclined. A few thrifty members here have stumbled upon some gold from time to time. So bite your buttons carefully...


This begs another question for me. How do you tell if buttons are horn or MOP? I sometime read here someone found a shirt w/MOP buttons or an old tweed coat w/real horn buttons.


----------



## Fiddlermatt

Tweed McVay said:


> This begs another question for me. How do you tell if buttons are horn or MOP? I sometime read here someone found a shirt w/MOP buttons or an old tweed coat w/real horn buttons.


If I'm convinced something is horn/MOP I give it a spritz of hand sanitizer and do the bit test. If you rub your teeth and feel grit, the button is either dirty or made of natural materials. You will get strange looks at thrifts if you do this.


----------



## Reuben

MOP will also typically feel cooler than a synthetic button. If you can't tell by touch you can touch it to your upper lip and typically tell. You don't have to put it actually inside your mouth that way.


----------



## DLW

Reuben said:


> MOP will also typically feel cooler than a synthetic button. If you can't tell by touch you can touch it to your upper lip and typically tell. You don't have to put it actually inside your mouth that way.


To test this theroy, would this older BB shirt have MOP buttons to test aganist a JCP Stanford BD I picked up. I'd rather bite/touch buttons to my lips at home rather than the thrift.


----------



## gamma68

Tweed McVay said:


> To test this theroy, would this older BB shirt have MOP buttons to test aganist a JCP Stanford BD I picked up. I'd rather bite/touch buttons to my lips at home rather than the thrift.


I think placing the button to your top lip is the best way to tell. A MOP will feel cooler to the touch. There is a definite difference in feel between MOP and plastic.

I really doubt your Stafford shirt has MOP. Not sure on the BB.


----------



## DLW

I know the Stafford (thank you for the correction) won't. It will be my test subject against a shirt that does.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

MOP buttons feel cold. Simple as that. They also often have flecks on the back, since they are, after all, shells.


----------



## Orgetorix

The only BB shirts I've ever seen with MOP buttons were modern Golden Fleece shirts. And not even all of those. 

None of the vintage OCBDs I've seen had them.


----------



## orange fury

I have two RL sport shirts that came with MOP buttons (odd, I know), I'll second all the comments about them being noticeably colder to the touch. They're also very different texturally from plastic- they feel more dense imho


----------



## orange fury

Another bow tie maker question: is anyone familiar with the quality or country of manufacture of Lloyd, Attree & Smith? I can't seem to find anything online and am debating between a tie from them or another tie from Beau Ties Ltd.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

mayostard said:


> Neither are the regular AE calfskin. THe fenway are made of something similar to CXL, not sure if you'd call it "oiled leather" or not but they're pretty rugged. The long branch are made from full-grain boot leather like a saddleback bag.


Well, there's stuff for oil/CXL-ish leathers, so that's the best bet for the fenways.

If the leather on the Long Branchs is tanned like calf, then you can polish them like calf if you want. If, on the other hand, you want them to look like they were mink oiled, then mink oil them. What the designer intended doesn't matter as much as what you want, at this point.


----------



## Howard

I have a question, I'm about to get new boots soon and I'm not sure what "reston" is, Is that good for my feet? 
And also what is "chukka"? Is that a material in the boot?

Thanks.


----------



## mhj

Is anyone familiar with the sizing of Footjoy cordovan's? I'm looking at pair on eBay that are not quite the correct width but it's rumored that they are somehow related to Alden which typically run large. If they were Alden's that width would likely be a good fit.


----------



## orange fury

So since it's been warm for the past 6 months, I've been exclusively wearing various types of cotton or linen pants essentially since March. With fall approaching, I'm in need of some wool dress pants, since my last pairs were 35 lbs ago. Because of my success with them I've been looking at some of Lands Ends offerings, but my wife and I just joined Costco, and I seem to remember seeing fairly positive stuff about the Kirkland line of wool dress pants (American fabric, etc). For those that have experience with these brands, between these two, which would be the better option?


----------



## mhj

orange fury said:


> So since it's been warm for the past 6 months, I've been exclusively wearing various types of cotton or linen pants essentially since March. With fall approaching, I'm in need of some wool dress pants, since my last pairs were 35 lbs ago. Because of my success with them I've been looking at some of Lands Ends offerings, but my wife and I just joined Costco, and I seem to remember seeing fairly positive stuff about the Kirkland line of wool dress pants (American fabric, etc). For those that have experience with these brands, between these two, which would be the better option?


Check out LL Bean, also their clearance section.


----------



## Drew4au

Picked up a navy J. Press sack suit recently. Looking for inspiration. Seen any shirt/tie/pocket square combos lately about which you've thoughts, "Hey, that looks snazzy"?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I find myself very drawn to looks that incorporate a simple blue-and-white striped shirt, a foulard tie in a dark color, and a white linen square. That strikes me as the perfect way to wear a dark suit: not too flashy, but not too "safe" either. This can work with the _right_ checked/glen plaid tie, too.

I also like the combination of a light-colored shirt (blue or pink) with a striped tie and a silk hank of some kind. A foulard tie is an option there, as well, but then you have to balance a printed tie and a printed square, which is trickier than doing two entirely different patterns.

Also, solid grenadine or knit ties, subtle checked shirts (like a graph-paper check in two colors), and a square that picks up on one or two of those colors can work, though the shirt can sometimes pull things in a too-casual direction. Sometimes a repp can work in this context, though you risk being a bit busy. I think a repp tie, a fine houndstooth or gingham shirt, and a white linen square is a better combination.

Those are what I like -- restrained, certainly, but not "too safe." For a bolder look, I think you should have a look at some of Paul Stuart's lookbook and ad material.


----------



## orange fury

Drew4au said:


> Picked up a navy J. Press sack suit recently. Looking for inspiration. Seen any shirt/tie/pocket square combos lately about which you've thoughts, "Hey, that looks snazzy"?


One that I used to wear to formal night time events (dinners and such) was a navy suit, white/blue striped twill shirt, light gray textured tie, white linen square (tv fold), black belt/shoes/watch strap, stainless steel watch, and sterling silver tie bar/cuff links. It was a look that went over pretty well in those venues.


----------



## colorvision

Is a hoof pick belt suitable for everyday casual wear, or is better reserved for tradly outfits only?


----------



## Orgetorix

Define "everyday casual wear." I wouldn't wear one with a mowing-the-lawn outfit, but you don't need a jacket or tie, either.


----------



## colorvision

Let's say khakis/jeans and polo/sport shirt.


----------



## Orgetorix

I don't think it would be a problem. Especially with khakis, but you might be OK with jeans too.


----------



## Fiddlermatt

In the same vein as the above question, what about ranger belts? I love the aesthetic of ranger belts, but I am assuming they can't be worn with khakis?


----------



## MZWilson

I was told today that this shirt and tie combo was "too stripey" I thought the stripes were of different enough scale to be acceptable. Thoughts?


----------



## ArtVandalay

I don't think you're going to get any flak for that combination around here. That's a classic look. Like you said, as long as the stripes are of different scales, you're fine.


----------



## Reuben

Fiddlermatt said:


> In the same vein as the above question, what about ranger belts? I love the aesthetic of ranger belts, but I am assuming they can't be worn with khakis?


What do you mean by ranger belts? If it's something like my philmont belt and buckle, probably not.


----------



## MZWilson

ArtVandalay said:


> I don't think you're going to get any flak for that combination around here. That's a classic look. Like you said, as long as the stripes are of different scales, you're fine.


That's what I figured. Just being a bit paranoid, just wanted the forums expertise.


----------



## ThePopinjay

I get customers at my work that don't wear stripes with stripes, I do it quite frequently however and like it. I've also never had anyone mention it being 'too stripey'


----------



## Jovan

Who on earth said that?


----------



## Fiddlermatt

Reuben said:


> What do you mean by ranger belts? If it's something like my philmont belt and buckle, probably not.


https://www.leathergoodsconnection.com/rangerbelts.html


----------



## Fading Fast

ThePopinjay said:


> I get customers at my work that don't wear stripes with stripes, I do it quite frequently however and like it. I've also never had anyone mention it being 'too stripey'


When I started on Wall Street in the 80s, I remember reading a pamphlet on dressing (I think it was from "The Custom Shop," but my memory could be off) that said you should only have one pattern in any outfit; to wit, if your tie has a pattern, keep your suit and shirt solid or if your suit has stripes, keep your tie and shirt solid. Sadly, it took me a few years to get over that bad advice.


----------



## stcolumba

ThePopinjay said:


> I get customers at my work that don't wear stripes with stripes, I do it quite frequently however and like it. I've also never had anyone mention it being 'too stripey'


The danger lies if the stripes on the tie are too thin. Stripes on stripes work as long as the stripes on the tie are considerably wider than the stripes on the shirt. Stripes on stripes can go terribly wrong if the proportions of the stripes--shirt and tie--are not right.

These striped ties are difficult, or impossible, to match with a striped shirt: 

















This tie would work well with a striped shirt:









Also, a shirt with really wide or thick stripes is not friendly with a striped tie. The stripes need to be thin.


----------



## stcolumba

MZWilson said:


> I was told today that this shirt and tie combo was "too stripey" I thought the stripes were of different enough scale to be acceptable. Thoughts?


This is perfect.


----------



## Fading Fast

MZWilson said:


> I was told today that this shirt and tie combo was "too stripey" I thought the stripes were of different enough scale to be acceptable. Thoughts?


Those stripes look very good together - the difference in scale sees to that. My guess is the people commenting negatively are following a "rule" like the one I referenced in my post above about the pamphlet I read years ago about not having two patterns in one outfit. You got a very good collar role there as well.


----------



## orange fury

Red tweed: does anyone have any, what would something like this go with, would it be useful, etc etc. IMHO it's kind of "fall/winter GTH", which is uncharted territory for me. This is what I'm looking at-

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...B-4F22-BCF3-5763533793E7_zpsdzjb3ymi.jpg.html

measurements are spot on too. In theory I really like it, I'm just wondering about in practice.


----------



## Reuben

Blackwatch flannel trou
British khaki chinos
brown chinos or moleskin
black wool trousers, red uni-striped OCBD, red and black needlepoint belt, black pebblegrain gunboats, and a red and black bow tie
Ect. I wouldn't call that GTH, I'd just wear it like any other tweed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wwilson

Reuben said:


> black wool trousers, red uni-striped OCBD, red and black needlepoint belt, black pebblegrain gunboats, and a red and black bow tie
> Ect. I wouldn't call that GTH, I'd just wear it like any other tweed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd agree with that if black=navy and red=burnt orange...:rolleyes2:


----------



## ArtVandalay

Red jackets are trouble for me. I have one but I haven't worn it yet because I always end up looking like a movie usher.


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> Blackwatch flannel trou
> British khaki chinos
> brown chinos or moleskin
> black wool trousers, red uni-striped OCBD, red and black needlepoint belt, black pebblegrain gunboats, and a red and black bow tie
> Ect. I wouldn't call that GTH, I'd just wear it like any other tweed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


These look like good options (I would sub navy for black, but I don't own anything in black), thanks for the suggestions. I guess "GTH" is too strong for this, it's just outside the realm of black/gray and brown tweeds that I currently own.

also, it's tag is from a company called "focus", anyone familiar with it?


----------



## orange fury

ArtVandalay said:


> Red jackets are trouble for me. I have one but I haven't worn it yet because I always end up looking like a movie usher.


I don't mind red jackets, I have a burgundy velvet one that works well for parties around Christmas, I just wasn't sure about how to do a light red tweed, since that's a color I associate more with summer


----------



## JakeGittes

MZ Wilson:

Nonsense. This combination is perfectly correct, and classic. You will find people who say you can not mix two patterns, even if they are the same (like here, two stripe patterns), but of course you can. And more than two, and even if they are different patterns (say, stripes and dots). 

Of course you must do it well - you did .


----------



## orange fury

Second jacket question- I've been looking for a navy velvet jacket for night events/parties/etc this winter. I ran across the J Ferrar 2B/notch lapel one at JC Penney (that comes in navy and burgundy), and I'm tempted, but then I found this Bonobos one:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...E-4503-A0DA-1ECC200394A4_zpssjlkyyb7.jpg.html

ignoring everything else the model is wearing (including the ridiculous brandy snifter), what are your thoughts on this? Bonobos in general, the contrast collar, etc. I have a velvet coat and want a second, and I like the shawl collar/1 button, etc? This isn't a formalwear replacement, so I'm not wearing this in place of my tux or something

Edit:
this is the JC Penney one. I like it, put it just seems more plain in comparison. Feedback on either is appreciated:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...F-45B2-9A2A-27E094021C70_zpsyg3wbehs.jpg.html


----------



## Howard

I thought I would ask these again, I might be going to Modells next week and I'm buying two pairs of boots what I want to know is one of the boots is made with reston, What is reston and is that good for the feet?

and also what is Chukka?

Thanks guys.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I'm not sure what reston is. A chukka boot is an ankle boot with two or three eyelets -- some brands call all low boots chukkas, though.

OF, the black lapel on the bonobos one makes it a dinner jacket. I threw one of last year's J Ferrar velvet jackets on an actor once, and it worked. Quality's not great, but it looks alright. Do you need a second velvet jacket more than anything else?


----------



## orange fury

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I'm not sure what reston is. A chukka boot is an ankle boot with two or three eyelets -- some brands call all low boots chukkas, though.
> 
> OF, the black lapel on the bonobos one makes it a dinner jacket. I threw one of last year's J Ferrar velvet jackets on an actor once, and it worked. Quality's not great, but it looks alright. Do you need a second velvet jacket more than anything else?


Yeah, I pulled out my other velvet jacket last night (J Ferrar single button peak lapel in burgundy) and because of my weight loss, it's going to require extensive tailoring to make it useable (sleeve length/width, significant waist suppression, etc). If I can find a jacket around the price point, I'm wanting to just pick up a new one and sell or donate the old.


----------



## Trad-ish

OF,

RE: the red jacket. I like that one. And I know where your are coming from about thinking it being a more summer color but the tweedy-ness of the material plus the hue (IMO) makes it a great fall-winter jacket. It's definitely not GTH. 

Oh, oh, and find me that brandy snifter!


----------



## DLW

Howard said:


> I thought I would ask these again, I might be going to Modells next week and I'm buying two pairs of boots what I want to know is one of the boots is made with reston, What is reston and is that good for the feet?
> 
> and also what is Chukka?
> 
> Thanks guys.


 I'm not sure if this helps. Found this YouTube Video about Asolo Reston Boots. From what I glean from the video reston is not a material but a type of sole profile that aids in stability for hikers.


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> Blackwatch flannel trou
> British khaki chinos
> brown chinos or moleskin
> black wool trousers, red uni-striped OCBD, red and black needlepoint belt, black pebblegrain gunboats, and a red and black bow tie
> Ect. I wouldn't call that GTH, I'd just wear it like any other tweed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Trad-ish said:


> OF,
> 
> RE: the red jacket. I like that one. And I know where your are coming from about thinking it being a more summer color but the tweedy-ness of the material plus the hue (IMO) makes it a great fall-winter jacket. It's definitely not GTH.
> 
> Oh, oh, and find me that brandy snifter!


Based on these comments, I made an offer that I can't believe the seller actually accepted, but I'm now the proud owner of a red tweed sportcoat. In retrospect, I'm thinking this was made with autumn in mind- I already have some ideas lined up lol


----------



## sskim3

Thoughts on this coat for fall/winter wear:










It is made from 100% camel hair and seems pretty awesome. It's a dark green, but is it dark enough that it doesn't say GTH? Wondering if I should pull the trigger.


----------



## orange fury

I like it and think the color is actually pretty subdued- if my light red tweed from the last page isn't GTH, this surely isn't lol. I like camel hair though, I've been wanting to get a tan/camel colored one for a while. Dark green would go with any number of brown/tan/khaki/navy pants. Just be cognizant of moths, my understanding is that they're more attracted to camel hair than anything else. Someone commented one time that if you put a camel hair jacket in a pile of tweed in a room full of moths, the tweed would be perfectly safe because the moths would go for the camel hair. Just something to pay attention to.


----------



## Fading Fast

Does not look GTH to me at all; whereas, OF's jacket titled heavily that way (which fits his style well). To me, that sport coat looks pretty classic and as long as you don't "Joker-from-Batman it up" with a bunch of strong / loud colors in the rest of your outfit - it should look conservative.


----------



## Howard

Tweed McVay said:


> I'm not sure if this helps. Found this YouTube Video about Asolo Reston Boots. From what I glean from the video reston is not a material but a type of sole profile that aids in stability for hikers.


Thanks Tweed.


----------



## Reuben

Anyone have a good source of buckles for side tabs? Getting a pair of madras trousers made up and wanted to give them a shot. Also, would it be reasonable to bring in an example pair of pants and ask him to cut them to fit exactly like those? The pants from my gingham suit fit just about perfectly, better than any trim/tapered pair of pants have ever worked for me.


----------



## Emthigious

Does anyone know what this collar flap in my trench coat is for? Buttons are functional, but there's nothing underneath the flap.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

There's a pair of BB loafers that have shown up on eBay. Please set my mind at ease: these are really just calfskin Sebagos assembled in the Dominican Republic, right? . I desperately need to replace my 11E Cole-Haans, which I'm abusing here, in the house, and I wonder who can comment on the relative fit of Sebago vs. Cole-Haan. Just FYI: until my company IPOs, I can't afford Aldens, period, so $30 for someone's used shoes is actually money well-spent for me.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I don't know about Sebagos, and I didn't stick around to see the country of origin, but those are CG penny loafers.

I do find that Haan's _current_ penny loafers feel a bit narrow, relative to Bass Weejuns, but I also felt like my last pair of Weejuns ran oddly wide.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I don't know about Sebagos, and I didn't stick around to see the country of origin, but those are CG penny loafers.
> 
> I do find that Haan's _current_ penny loafers feel a bit narrow, relative to Bass Weejuns, but I also felt like my last pair of Weejuns ran oddly wide.


Thanks for the set of eyes. The risk doesn't justify the reward here. I may as well ride my bike to the Cole-Haan outlet near me and get another pair of what I know fits me.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SlideGuitarist said:


> Thanks for the set of eyes. The risk doesn't justify the reward here. I may as well ride my bike to the Cole-Haan outlet near me and get another pair of what I know fits me.


That would be a better bet, yes.

Though if you have a DSW or an MJM near you, swing through -- I think CH has tweaked something about their pennies and sent a fair few of the "old style" to that kind of place. You may not be able to get adoucett's incredible sub-$10 pair, but I think I saw some for a bit less than they were going for at the outlet.


----------



## Jovan

Emthigious said:


> Does anyone know what this collar flap in my trench coat is for? Buttons are functional, but there's nothing underneath the flap.


That's for a button-in flannel lining.


----------



## orange fury

I have 3 fit check questions. First, the two I posted in acquisitions:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...B-49F3-9192-F94C2B4EFD65_zpsbjcx8ecd.jpg.html

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...A-42D8-AA1F-B31D487B50D7_zps6w9vkkch.jpg.html

These are unlined/unstructured cotton chino jackets. I know I need to have the sleeves shortened, but it just seems a bit bulky to me. Should I attempt waist suppression? Is there something else?

this is the rust colored tweed I bought a couple weeks ago, the roll on the collar is incredible, but the jacket is just big in the chest (bigger than it appears here):
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...E-424A-966F-B593F2833793_zpsdsm98rwf.jpg.html

this is with excess fabric (quickly and crudely) clothes pinned back:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...D-43DD-8327-43CD6CDC92EE_zpsli8jacjx.jpg.html

though this is a bit closer than I would actually have it done, should I just do waist suppression (and sleeve lengthening obviously), or something else?


----------



## Emthigious

Jovan said:


> That's for a button-in flannel lining.


Thanks, but wouldn't that mean there would be more buttons? These are the only three buttons on the inside of the coat, except for the buttons for the storm flap.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

SlideGuitarist said:


> Thanks for the set of eyes. The risk doesn't justify the reward here. I may as well ride my bike to the Cole-Haan outlet near me and get another pair of what I know fits me.


I wrote Cole-Haan to ask if they actually had stopped offering wide sizes; I was told they're simply not on the web site yet. You can order them from JAB's web site; I did not see any at DSW.


----------



## Duvel

OF, for what it's worth, my take: I don't much like the first two jackets. I do like the third, but I actually like the less tapered look.


----------



## gamma68

OF, I agree with Duvel. I don't care for the look of the first two jackets. But I think the third one in the "rust" color looks very good. When you have it buttoned, how far can you pull it away from your chest? If it's a couple inches or so, the fit is good. If you could put a baseball in there, it's too big and needs tailoring.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> OF, for what it's worth, my take: I don't much like the first two jackets. I do like the third, but I actually like the less tapered look.


Thanks for the feedback guys. With the first two, they definitely err more towards a preppier look than many here tend to go for, but if I can get them slightly more fitted I have several ideas for them. Definitely an acquired taste lol. With the tweed, it won't end up as tapered as the last photo (that was just a crappy pinning job on my part), but with the jacket buttoned I can pull the chest out around 6-8", so I'll need some suppression done to mitigate that. Not as much as the last photo though lol


----------



## gamma68

6-8"?? That chest measurement is way too big for you. If returning it is an option, you might want to pursue that. Shoulders/chest are the most difficult and expensive to alter.


----------



## orange fury

gamma68 said:


> 6-8"?? That chest measurement is way too big for you. If returning it is an option, you might want to pursue that. Shoulders/chest are the most difficult and expensive to alter.


My depth perception is horrendous lol. I just measured, 4.75 from button to chest when pulled taut.


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> My depth perception is horrendous lol. I just measured, 4.75 from button to chest when pulled taut.


Still far too big. You must be swimming in that jacket, LOL.

For reference, the jackets that work best for me have a 41-42" chest measurement. At 43", they look and feel big (my chest measurement is ~40"). I absolutely will not go beyond 43" and try to stick to picking up ones that measure 42".

I'm curious to know what your tailor can do with a jacket that large in the chest. Please, let us know!


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> this is the rust colored tweed I bought a couple weeks ago, the roll on the collar is incredible, but the jacket is just big in the chest (bigger than it appears here):
> https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...E-424A-966F-B593F2833793_zpsdsm98rwf.jpg.html


OF, now that I look at the un-pinned photo again, I'm wondering who made this jacket? Looks like a 2-button sack, but with some shoulder padding (or am I wrong)? It reminds me of a couple English Harris Tweeds I own that have more pronounced shoulders.


----------



## orange fury

gamma68 said:


> Still far too big. You must be swimming in that jacket, LOL.
> 
> For reference, the jackets that work best for me have a 41-42" chest measurement. At 43", they look and feel big (my chest measurement is ~40"). I absolutely will not go beyond 43" and try to stick to picking up ones that measure 42".
> 
> I'm curious to know what your tailor can do with a jacket that large in the chest. Please, let us know!


Will do, honestly, I got the jacket for about $20, so no huge loss if he can't do anything.

laying flat and measuring P2P, the jacket is 20.75"-21", and I'm a true 38" chest, so I dont expect it to be a huge deal to have my tailor taper it (I think he had more work with my LE DB jacket actually). On this topic, I'm going to take the red and green jackets to them tomorrow as well to see if anything can be done with the collar issue. Unfortunately, I discovered that both jackets have working cuffs, and I need about an inch taken off (I don't expect that he'll be able to do much, in which case both are going back to the seller).

per the tweed brand, it's a company called Focus, I'm completely unfamiliar with it, and there's no other tagging:


----------



## ThePopinjay

Had a quick question about the removable interior collar on my raincoat, is it just a sort of two is better than one deal?

It's also got a nice zip-in wool liner as well. Not bad for 6 bucks! Can't say I know anything about the brand other than a vague awareness of it, regardless it's a very nicely made coat and I got more compliment on it today than I think I have on just about anything else I've worn at school. Maybe the burgundy pants really did something for it.


----------



## colorvision

Bills khakis fit help kindly appreciated: The chamois cloth m2's I ordered from STP fit well at the waist, but are a bit tight in the seat and thigh. Pockets stick out about an inch at the widest point, so seemingly I should return them (tailoring can't fix tight pants, right?), but what should I try next - order another m2 chamois cloth but increase waist size from 32 to 33, or try out the m1?


----------



## orange fury

colorvision said:


> Bills khakis fit help kindly appreciated: The chamois cloth m2's I ordered from STP fit well at the waist, but are a bit tight in the seat and thigh. Pockets stick out about an inch at the widest point, so seemingly I should return them (tailoring can't fix tight pants, right?), but what should I try next - order another m2 chamois cloth but increase waist size from 32 to 33, or try out the m1?


I have a 32 waist and have a pair of corduroy M1's, I'll warn you that, though there's no tightness or flaring, the legs and rise are petty substantial. I'm having them slimmed down Caroline October/November.


----------



## Spin Evans

Popinjay, I know that some attachable collars are there for added insulation. The one you posted looks lighter than the usual wool ones, so I'm not sure. I do know that they also cut down on the wear to the jacket's attached collar, as it's a lot easier to buy/wash a replacement collar than the whole coat.


----------



## Howard

I have a question about two pairs of boots I bought. I was wondering if my boots can be used in the wintertime if they're "waterproof" and "water resistant"? Can they still be used while trudging in the snow?


----------



## FLMike

Howard said:


> I have a question about two pairs of boots I bought. I was wondering if my boots can be used in the wintertime if they're "waterproof" and "water resistant"? Can they still be used while trudging in the snow?


It all depends on how trad they are, of course.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Spin Evans said:


> Popinjay, I know that some attachable collars are there for added insulation. The one you posted looks lighter than the usual wool ones, so I'm not sure. I do know that they also cut down on the wear to the jacket's attached collar, as it's a lot easier to buy/wash a replacement collar than the whole coat.


Thanks Spin!


----------



## Duvel

Say that one needs to replenish his supply of button-collar dress shirts. Say that one can set aside $200-250 next month to help do so. Is one better off buying a couple of J. Press flap pocket OCBDs for about $125 each or three of the Brooks Brothers OCBDs for the three-for-$229 deal?

I'm familiar with BB shirts but not all that familiar with J. Press shirts. Any thoughts? All advice is appreciated.


----------



## CMDC

^ I have both and have bought both new and thrifted. For me, the Brooks Bros is the better shirt. Yes, the button flap pocket on the JPress is a nice touch, but I find the JPress shirts to be a bit rougher in terms of texture, and also that they are shorter so they don't stay tucked in as well. Given this and the price difference, I'd buy the BB every time.


----------



## Billax

Duvel said:


> Say that one needs to replenish his supply of button-collar dress shirts. Say that one can set aside $200-250 next month to help do so. Is one better off buying a couple of J. Press flap pocket OCBDs for about $125 each or three of the Brooks Brothers OCBDs for the three-for-$229 deal?
> 
> I'm familiar with BB shirts but not all that familiar with J. Press shirts. Any thoughts? All advice is appreciated.


Duvel, separate from the question of what you buy is the question of when you buy. Toward the end of December, there are much better shirt deals from both J. Press and Brooks Brothers than the prices you mention in your post. Something like three for $199 from Brooks and $73 per shirt from J. Press.

I purchase OCBDs from both providers. I like the shirts from both. I believe the domestic maker of Press' flap-pocket shirts is the New England Shirt Company. I love these shirts! They're heavy in weight, the collars hold their roll and they are very well constructed. Unlike Brooks, the domestically produced Press shirts have gauntlet buttons. For my arm length (and for ease of ironing) I have a slight preference for shirts with gauntlet buttons. Finally, I suppose the flap pocket offering will go away at some time. A couple of years ago, Press quit manufacturing the University Stripe OCBDs with flap pockets. They've reduced the number of solid color flap pockets they produce. If I wear my current inventory for the next thirty years, I'll still have some left. Nonetheless, I will buy a few more this December. :thumbs-up:


----------



## Duvel

Thanks, CMDC and Billax. Really good information. Thanks, Billax, for the heads up on the December prices. 

I'm feeling a bit dress shirt impoverished at the moment, and I probably need at least one good one before December to cover special work events (and to go with my new blazer purchases). I don't want to buy just any dress shirt, so maybe I'll go with one next month from J. or BB and then stock up in December.


----------



## L-feld

I haven't owned jeans in a while and kind of hate them, but I am feeling pressured to own a pair. Anybody know where I can find American made jeans for under $100 that are dark, not distressed, and have a solid 12" rise? I don't care if they're jeans, i'm still going to wear them at my armpits, like everything else.

Ideally, i would like the wrangler cowboy cut jeans, but made in usa.

Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


----------



## Duvel

I was going to ask at first why you feel pressured, but then I remembered feeling that way a few years ago and breaking down and buying some Levis 501 STFs. About the only time I wear them now is to shovel snow from the driveway. Sorry, I know that's not much help. Levi's don't have a good rise, unfortunately. Probably only 9-10 inches.



L-feld said:


> I haven't owned jeans in a while and kind of hate them, but I am feeling pressured to own a pair. Anybody know where I can find American made jeans for under $100 that are dark, not distressed, and have a solid 12" rise? I don't care if they're jeans, i'm still going to wear them at my armpits, like everything else.
> 
> Ideally, i would like the wrangler cowboy cut jeans, but made in usa.
> 
> Sent from the TARDIS using the chameleon circuit


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> OF, for what it's worth, my take: I don't much like the first two jackets. I do like the third, but I actually like the less tapered look.





gamma68 said:


> OF, I agree with Duvel. I don't care for the look of the first two jackets. But I think the third one in the "rust" color looks very good. When you have it buttoned, how far can you pull it away from your chest? If it's a couple inches or so, the fit is good. If you could put a baseball in there, it's too big and needs tailoring.


Just a follow up- returning both jackets. I didn't realize until I was getting ready to go to my tailor that the jackets have working cuffs (which I normally wouldn't be disappointed about). I went ahead and asked my tailor about fixing the back of the lapel, shortening the sleeves, and taking in the waist: $130 per jacket, and he was giving me a deal (normally $150/per). The jackets cost me $50 apiece and retail for $165 apiece, no way are they worth $300 of alterations lol.


----------



## Spin Evans

Duvel said:


> Thanks, CMDC and Billax. Really good information. Thanks, Billax, for the heads up on the December prices.
> 
> I'm feeling a bit dress shirt impoverished at the moment, and I probably need at least one good one before December to cover special work events (and to go with my new blazer purchases). I don't want to buy just any dress shirt, so maybe I'll go with one next month from J. or BB and then stock up in December.


The 30% off for Corporate Card members is also a good time to buy them if you can't wait till December. I believe they usually have one in October, near Columbus Day.


----------



## stcolumba

Duvel said:


> Say that one needs to replenish his supply of button-collar dress shirts. Say that one can set aside $200-250 next month to help do so. Is one better off buying a couple of J. Press flap pocket OCBDs for about $125 each or three of the Brooks Brothers OCBDs for the three-for-$229 deal?
> 
> I'm familiar with BB shirts but not all that familiar with J. Press shirts. Any thoughts? All advice is appreciated.


For the money and for that classic collar roll, Brooks Brothers! They last forever.


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> Just a follow up- returning both jackets. I didn't realize until I was getting ready to go to my tailor that the jackets have working cuffs (which I normally wouldn't be disappointed about). I went ahead and asked my tailor about fixing the back of the lapel, shortening the sleeves, and taking in the waist: $130 per jacket, and he was giving me a deal (normally $150/per). The jackets cost me $50 apiece and retail for $165 apiece, no way are they worth $300 of alterations lol.


I'm stunned that those two casual jackets had working buttons - what a odd sartorial world we live in. And while I have spent nearly the price of a jacket on alteration (a bought a couple of J.Crew $400 jackets on sale for $99 and spent about $100 altering them - sleeves, waist suppression. collar lowered - as I live in NYC where alterations are stupid expensive), the ratios on your jackets are too far out of whack. I'm sorry, they looked like they would be fun.


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as an online encyclopedia of regimental stripe patterns and/or tartans? I'm always curious if the patterns I see on different stuff I have or see at the thrift are legitimate or something a designer pulled out of thin air.


----------



## orange fury

ThatDudeOrion said:


> Does anyone know if there is such a thing as an online encyclopedia of regimental stripe patterns and/or tartans? I'm always curious if the patterns I see on different stuff I have or see at the thrift are legitimate or something a designer pulled out of thin air.


If I remember correctly, someone (I want to say gamma, but I could be wrong) bought a book earlier this year that was a comprehensive guide to tartans


----------



## oxford cloth button down

ThatDudeOrion said:


> Does anyone know if there is such a thing as an online encyclopedia of regimental stripe patterns and/or tartans? I'm always curious if the patterns I see on different stuff I have or see at the thrift are legitimate or something a designer pulled out of thin air.


Not an encyclopedia, but you can you use Ben Silver's site (https://www.bensilver.com/Authentic-Regimental.html) or Benson and Clegg () to ID a lot of regimentals.


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> If I remember correctly, someone (I want to say gamma, but I could be wrong) bought a book earlier this year that was a comprehensive guide to tartans


OF is right. The book is titled "The Scottish Clans and their Tartans." Numerous copies are available on eBay. One is available for 99 cents:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Scotti...819?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item3a966a4033


----------



## ThePopinjay

I have a book titled "The Weavers Guide to Tartans" or something like that, it has weaving instructions as well as pictures and a brief history of a good number of tartans.

Edit:
Here we go, The Tartan Weavers Guide...


----------



## shipworthy

The Scottish government also maintains a registry of tartans. Not great for browsing but good for looking up specific patterns by name.

https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/


----------



## jimw

I just won this bid on ebay - I think it's a nice shade of light olive, whereas my wife (who I've always known to be a bit colour-blind) thinks that it's grey. What the consensus?

Also, what colour of trouser would pair well with this jacket? I think a light grey flannel, or perhaps a British khaki? Again, any feedback is good feedback to me.

Thanks,


----------



## Fading Fast

jimw, on my not-great monitor, I think I see a subtle hint of olive - the jacket looks light grey with a hint of olive to me (again, on my not-great monitor). 

If that is the case, I would be careful about light grey trousers as you need to achieve enough contrast between the pants and jacket or it will look odd. If you want to go casual, stone-colored chinos would work. I think your British Khaki call would be a case by case decision. 

Also, texture will drive this as the jacket is a heavy texture and will look better with a substantial pair of pants - flannels, heavy cotton chinos, wide-wale cords or moleskin. 

Looks like a nice jacket - enjoy


----------



## Spin Evans

jimw said:


> I just won this bid on ebay - I think it's a nice shade of light olive, whereas my wife (who I've always known to be a bit colour-blind) thinks that it's grey. What the consensus?
> 
> Also, what colour of trouser would pair well with this jacket? I think a light grey flannel, or perhaps a British khaki? Again, any feedback is good feedback to me.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> View attachment 12555


FF is right on the money, and I agree that it's grey with a tinge of olive. I think a pair of fawn-colored flannels would look very smart--and unique.


----------



## jimw

Spin Evans said:


> FF is right on the money, and I agree that it's grey with a tinge of olive. I think a pair of fawn-colored flannels would look very smart--and unique.


Thanks for your comments, Spin and Fading. Yes, it felt good, as I resolved to submit only one bid and then to go no further - as it turned out, I won a nice BB Golden Fleece sack in a pretty neat colour. Here's the full listing:

I suppose I could wear brown/cordovan or black shoes & belt with this - seems fairly versatile.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## fshguy

Deciphering Brooks OCBD fit:
I'm in need of a few button downs and am trying to make outthe fit recommendations for the 132Q. From what I've found, one should size up in both the neck and sleeve forthe solid white and blue uni-stripe, but not the other colors? I presume the blue, pink, echru, etc. don'tshrink as much.
Thanks!


----------



## orange fury

This is probably trad heresy, but whatever, I'm going to go ahead and ask.

i grew up wearing fleece vests when cooler weather hit (by itself in the fall, as part of layers in the winter- they were invaluable through seven years of camping in Scouts). I haven't owned one in a couple years and wanted to get a new one. I wanted to avoid The North Face because of how ubiquitous it is/gaudy logo/etc. I started looking at Patagonia (aka Patagucci, aka Fratagonia), but they can get fairly pricey (though I've heard that they're worth it). I was looking at some of the alternatives that LL Bean had for about half the price but couldn't find a comparison between anything other than North Face vs Patagonia vs Marmot (sometimes). Opinions much appreciated on LL Bean's or Lands End's offerings in this arena.

im also looking at maybe a down vest at some point, but that's after I restock on flannel shirts.


----------



## Duvel

Seriously...? https://putthison.com/post/97071314498/why-its-hard-to-take-mens-fashion-magazines


----------



## bignilk

orange fury said:


> im also looking at maybe a down vest at some point


"Hey kid, what's with the life preserver?"


----------



## Spin Evans

orange fury said:


> This is probably trad heresy, but whatever, I'm going to go ahead and ask.
> 
> i grew up wearing fleece vests when cooler weather hit (by itself in the fall, as part of layers in the winter- they were invaluable through seven years of camping in Scouts). I haven't owned one in a couple years and wanted to get a new one. I wanted to avoid The North Face because of how ubiquitous it is/gaudy logo/etc. I started looking at Patagonia (aka Patagucci, aka Fratagonia), but they can get fairly pricey (though I've heard that they're worth it). I was looking at some of the alternatives that LL Bean had for about half the price but couldn't find a comparison between anything other than North Face vs Patagonia vs Marmot (sometimes). Opinions much appreciated on LL Bean's or Lands End's offerings in this arena.
> 
> im also looking at maybe a down vest at some point, but that's after I restock on flannel shirts.


I find that technical fleece has all the tactile pleasure of a burlap sack, but I do rather like quilted vests. RCS has a pretty good write-up on them from yesterday: https://www.redclaysoul.com/?p=6556

PRL has one from this season as well. My favorites are made with a wool or otherwise matte fabric, but those can get pretty expensive.


----------



## MythReindeer

I'm new to the trad thing and this forum (Hi, by the way), so this may be easy or not: how does the shoulder measurement of a minimally padded jacket--as in the sort often found on sack jackets--compare to something that has more structure?


----------



## loarbmhs

I'd be tempted to say that the shoulder might be a bit bigger/extended on the structured jacket, but given the variation by manufacturer, I'd forget about any upfront notions and simply use Ask Andy's handy post on how to measure a jacket:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/clothing/style-tips/how-to-measure-a-jacket/.

Ultimately, all that really matters is whether the jacket fits and that you like the style--you won't have "number of inches, shoulder width" emblazoned on the coat.



MythReindeer said:


> I'm new to the trad thing and this forum (Hi, by the way), so this may be easy or not: how does the shoulder measurement of a minimally padded jacket--as in the sort often found on sack jackets--compare to something that has more structure?


----------



## MythReindeer

loarbmhs said:


> I'd be tempted to say that the shoulder might be a bit bigger/extended on the structured jacket, but given the variation by manufacturer, I'd forget about any upfront notions and simply use Ask Andy's handy post on how to measure a jacket:
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/clothing/style-tips/how-to-measure-a-jacket/.
> 
> Ultimately, all that really matters is whether the jacket fits and that you like the style--you won't have "number of inches, shoulder width" emblazoned on the coat.


Thanks for the input. I am trying to get an idea for things that show up on places like the thrift exchange thread or eBay, where the measurements are usually given. I have some jackets with more structured shoulders and am trying to come up with a correspondence with softer shouldered jackets.


----------



## Spin Evans

I would recommend you first become familiar with brands that have produced soft-shouldered jackets, as well those that _continue_ to do so. You can always ask the seller what the shoulders are like, especially if they are professional eBay sellers. However, there are enough people online that don't know the difference that you'll have to take this with a grain of salt. Squeezing the sleevehead between your fingers can indicate how structured it is. Some stronger shoulders feel like you're folding a diaper. However, there are so many factors involved in making a jacket's shoulder that a foolproof tell is unlikely.


----------



## orange fury

So I need opinions on these two jackets. Both tweed, both by Palm Beach, both 3/2 and my size and the same price. Not sure which one to get (if either one), so I wanted other sets of eyes to look at them. Also, I'm familiar with Palm Beach's summer wear, but not their tweed/winter, so thoughts on that appreciated as well.

option A:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...F-4654-A30A-3E98D0F88ED1_zpsc6xhrde1.jpg.html

Option B:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...8-480C-896F-A493C182EA1C_zpsjazweohl.jpg.html

Both jackets fairly scream "autumn" with a capital "A" IMHO


----------



## Reuben

Depends on if you've got more room for a rusty-toned jacket or a navy-accented jacket in your wardrobe. You'll be golden either way, Wes is a fantastic seller. I think I actually bought my first jacket off of eBay from him back in the day.

Edit: he said to tell you to get both, by the way.


----------



## Topsider

I'd get both.


----------



## CMDC

Those are both fantastic and I'm hoping they aren't my size.


----------



## orange fury

CMDC said:


> Those are both fantastic and I'm hoping they aren't my size.


Im hoping they're not yours either, considering I just bid on both (lol nothing personal, I just really want them )

(Reuben and Topsider, either you're too convincing or I'm too easily swayed lol)


----------



## universitystripe

orange fury said:


> This is probably trad heresy, but whatever, I'm going to go ahead and ask.
> 
> i grew up wearing fleece vests when cooler weather hit (by itself in the fall, as part of layers in the winter- they were invaluable through seven years of camping in Scouts). I haven't owned one in a couple years and wanted to get a new one. I wanted to avoid The North Face because of how ubiquitous it is/gaudy logo/etc. I started looking at Patagonia (aka Patagucci, aka Fratagonia), but they can get fairly pricey (though I've heard that they're worth it). I was looking at some of the alternatives that LL Bean had for about half the price but couldn't find a comparison between anything other than North Face vs Patagonia vs Marmot (sometimes). Opinions much appreciated on LL Bean's or Lands End's offerings in this arena.
> 
> im also looking at maybe a down vest at some point, but that's after I restock on flannel shirts.


Patagonia can be expensive, but they allow you to send items in for repair. Also, eBay is full of Patagonia vests and the iconic Snap T for less than $100.

As for the down vest, I believe the consensus is that Lands End is a perfectly acceptable vest. There are discussions regarding it in the Trad forum.


----------



## Topsider

orange fury said:


> This is probably trad heresy, but whatever, I'm going to go ahead and ask.
> 
> i grew up wearing fleece vests when cooler weather hit (by itself in the fall, as part of layers in the winter- they were invaluable through seven years of camping in Scouts). I haven't owned one in a couple years and wanted to get a new one. I wanted to avoid The North Face because of how ubiquitous it is/gaudy logo/etc. I started looking at Patagonia (aka Patagucci, aka Fratagonia), but they can get fairly pricey (though I've heard that they're worth it). I was looking at some of the alternatives that LL Bean had for about half the price but couldn't find a comparison between anything other than North Face vs Patagonia vs Marmot (sometimes). Opinions much appreciated on LL Bean's or Lands End's offerings in this arena.
> 
> im also looking at maybe a down vest at some point, but that's after I restock on flannel shirts.


I have several fleece pullovers from L.L. Bean. I think they compare favorably to Patagonia. Most of mine are thrifted.

It's tough to find a decent down vest these days. I bought one on sale from Lands' End last year, but was disappointed at how light it was. I also have a vintage one (much better quality) from L.L. Bean that I've been thinking of selling. It's sized Large, but fits more like a Medium, so it's a bit small on me. It's dark green with a snap front. If you're interested, I'll make you a deal.


----------



## CMDC

Don't worry. They're just a bit small so I'm not going after them. Good luck.



orange fury said:


> Im hoping they're not yours either, considering I just bid on both (lol nothing personal, I just really want them )
> 
> (Reuben and Topsider, either you're too convincing or I'm too easily swayed lol)


----------



## orange fury

CMDC said:


> Don't worry. They're just a bit small so I'm not going after them. Good luck.


Reading back, my comment came out a whole lot more harsh/less joking than I meant for it to, sorry about that CMDC:redface:


----------



## Tilton

On fleece vests: just get something made from Polartec 200 and it will really be the same as anything else from TNF, Patagonia, LLB, etc. I have two from Patagonia and two from LLB. Aside from one Bean being windproof, they are identical in construction and material. Buying top-tier tech wear is great, but not for something as basic as 200 weight fleece. Save it for something more unique - a Retro-X vest, something windproof, something insulated, etc.


----------



## Spin Evans

OF, I am so, so glad that those have 20.5" chests, rather than 20" or 19.5" ones. I was having a crisis of faith over that first jacket, and probably would have had to beg you to let it go. *So* beautiful.


----------



## Colonel Ichabod

orange fury said:


> So I need opinions on these two jackets. Both tweed, both by Palm Beach, both 3/2 and my size and the same price. Not sure which one to get (if either one), so I wanted other sets of eyes to look at them. Also, I'm familiar with Palm Beach's summer wear, but not their tweed/winter, so thoughts on that appreciated as well.


Both of those look great, though I'm more partial to jacket A myself. That's probably just because I'm big about warm earth tones, however. As for Palm Beach wools and tweeds, I just recently picked up a tweed Palm Beach jacket, and it's pretty thick and bulletproof. It's not the thickest of material, but it will be great for autumn.


----------



## orange fury

So I made a deal with the seller and purchased both jackets outright this morning, so I now have 2 more tweeds that I didn't necessarily need, but really really liked .

I ended last winter with 3 tweed jackets, and am going into autumn with 9 (5 of which are Harris Tweed)- does this mean I'm turning into Ensiferous? Lol


----------



## hardline_42

Tilton said:


> On fleece vests: just get something made from Polartec 200 and it will really be the same as anything else from TNF, Patagonia, LLB, etc. I have two from Patagonia and two from LLB. Aside from one Bean being windproof, they are identical in construction and material. Buying top-tier tech wear is great, but not for something as basic as 200 weight fleece. Save it for something more unique - a Retro-X vest, something windproof, something insulated, etc.


This is good advice. If you really want the Patagonia label (nothing wrong with that) you can find plenty of promotional vests (embroidered company logo) in brand new condition for cheap. Just attack the embroidery with a seam ripper, launder and it's as good as new. If you want some really nice, made-to-measure fleece gear with the ability to customize it to your liking and Made in USA, check out Foxwear. Most of their items are much cheaper than TNF or P-gonia.

https://foxwear.net/


----------



## Reuben

orange fury said:


> So I made a deal with the seller and purchased both jackets outright this morning, so I now have 2 more tweeds that I didn't necessarily need, but really really liked .
> 
> I ended last winter with 3 tweed jackets, and am going into autumn with 9 (5 of which are Harris Tweed)- does this mean I'm turning into Ensiferous? Lol












Considering there's four at the tailor and four sitting in the back of my car in the sun to kill potential moths, I think you're ok.


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> Considering there's four at the tailor and four sitting in the back of my car in the sun to kill potential moths, I think you're ok.


 Well played :icon_hailthee:


----------



## Reuben

orange fury said:


> Well played :icon_hailthee:


To be honest, I'm working on cutting this down and trying to decide what to pay for alterations on and what to get rid of. This is (hopefully) the high-water mark of my collection for a little while. The patchworks aren't going anywhere, though.

I need to work on the summer side too:


----------



## capnwes

Reuben said:


> To be honest, I'm working on cutting this down and trying to decide what to pay for alterations on and what to get rid of. This is (hopefully) the high-water mark of my collection for a little while. The patchworks aren't going anywhere, though.
> 
> I need to work on the summer side too:


I see some familiar stuff in that lot....

Thanks fellas for the references and the business. Happy Fall to all!

This may be my first post....I don't remember.


----------



## Duvel

For anyone who might have a sense of history about these things: Any idea when Corbin made sack blazers for Ben Silver? Just curious about my recent acquisition. The blazer is in incredible shape, almost new looking, but I thought I had heard that Corbin has been out of business for a while.


----------



## KJD89

I'm looking to put some suede patches on a sweater I've got, what's the total cost for that sort of thing, on average?


----------



## Duvel

Not a question, just definitely bragging: I followed OCBD's online instructions for creating a cuff on chinos, and I did it! I tried it on an old raggedy pair of J. Crew chinos, fumbled through it, but finally caught on and they are now perfectly cuffed. I plan on doing this now to my good pairs. Has anybody else tried this? Surprisingly easy and fast to do, once you know what you are doing.


----------



## matth3w

As summer slips away, I am already thinking of sweater vests. I love sweater vests under my suits, sportcoats, and blazers for all but the most formal of business occasions. I typically work the vest from November to March. I kknow that at some level all this vesting is wrong. But I don't care. Please tell me where I can buy a good quality sweater vest that's thin enough not to mess up my jacket's fit too much. Thanks for any info you can provide.


----------



## Trad-ish

Duvel said:


> Not a question, just definitely bragging: I followed OCBD's online instructions for creating a cuff on chinos, and I did it! I tried it on an old raggedy pair of J. Crew chinos, fumbled through it, but finally caught on and they are now perfectly cuffed. I plan on doing this now to my good pairs. Has anybody else tried this? Surprisingly easy and fast to do, once you know what you are doing.


did anyone give you permission to change your avatar?


----------



## Duvel

No, I decided to be rebellious and go outside channels.



Trad-ish said:


> did anyone give you permission to change your avatar?


----------



## orange fury

I asked this in acquisitions but don't want to clutter up that thread. Basically to recap, I got two great jackets with amazing fabric that are unfortunately a touch too short. I can let out 7/8" on the sleeves, so that won't be a problem, but the length overall is toeing the line of acceptability. I know there's been discussion here about shortening jackets (some positive, more negative), but has anyone tried to lengthen a jacket (or is this even possible)? The jacket is partially lined, so this shows the seam at the bottom:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...C-4EC9-9346-A6DFBC8E728A_zpsjdxuc5jp.jpg.html

Thoughts appreciated, I really want to make these work, but I don't want to force something that won't happen.


----------



## Orgetorix

Yeah, that's not gonna work. You might get a quarter inch or so, but then it'd look weird where the fronts curve down to the bottom hem. You'll just have to live with them or pass them on.


----------



## fshguy

fshguy said:


> Deciphering Brooks OCBD fit:
> I'm in need of a few button downs and I'm trying to make out the fit recommendations for the 132Q. From what I've found, one should size up in both the neck and sleeve for the solid white and blue uni-stripe, but not the other colors? I presume the blue, pink, echru, etc. don't shrink as much?
> Thanks!


Just trying to verify that I drew the appropriate conclusions from several threads I found with the search feature. Thanks for any feedback.


----------



## Fading Fast

matth3w said:


> As summer slips away, I am already thinking of sweater vests. I love sweater vests under my suits, sportcoats, and blazers for all but the most formal of business occasions. I typically work the vest from November to March. I kknow that at some level all this vesting is wrong. But I don't care. Please tell me where I can buy a good quality sweater vest that's thin enough not to mess up my jacket's fit too much. Thanks for any info you can provide.


I haven't looked this season yet, but from last season, BB does a decent thin merino wool vest and, sometime, they do a silk and wool or silk and cotton that is even thinner. As always with BB, wait for a sale, but on sale, they were reasonable priced.

Also, and I never recommend anything from this store, but last year, I saw it in the window and grabbed a charcoal grey silk cotton vest from Banana Republic that is very thin, very classic in style and almost feels like you aren't wearing it. I didn't buy any from Polo last year, but they also tend to do some good thin sweater vests.


----------



## mayostard

Not exactly a trad question, but I'm looking for undershirts with the following specs:

* 100% cotton
* vneck
* grey
* in tall sizes

Gap does have something that technically fits this, but it's a deeper V than I personally care for. They're also $17 each, which I wouldn't mind paying if I absolutely have no other choice but it seems someone should be able to do better than that for an undershirt. Any ideas would be appreciated.


----------



## Jovan

RibbedTee


----------



## eagle2250

^^+1 

Indeed, Ribbed Tee is my only acceptable choice for undershirts. There are none better!


----------



## ArtVandalay

eagle2250 said:


> ^^+1
> 
> Indeed, Ribbed Tee is my only acceptable choice for undershirts. There are none better!


I've been looking for a tall undershirt as well - mine tend to come untucked and bunch above my waistband - but I'm not seeing any tall models on their website. Am I missing it?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

This is a quick question: I finally bought a suit, for the first time since I was in college. I bought two, in fact: charcoal worsted, and navy w/ pinstripe, at Brooks Bros., 1818 line. It's what I can afford, and it was a lot of $ for me. I've never tried on a higher-end (Hickey-Freeman or Samuelsohn) suit that wouldn't have required similar alterations, so this seemed like a good deal. I'll post photos when I can. Scavenging a suit from eBay had become a time-waster for me; I just had to give up on that idea. Anyway...

Of course the tailor said, "No cuffs with plain front." I just like cuffs; that's not my question. I'm 53, and I don't care about fashion. I want to have these for a long time, esp. as I don't often wear a suit. 

My question is, what height? 1.25"? 1.5? I'm tall, and these have a fairly narrow leg, and I don't think the big J. Press 1 5/8" cuff height would look good at the end of the leg, but I'm interested in opinions. If you know there's no consensus whatsoever on this issue, feel free to advise me simply to make up my own mind.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Your tailor is used to people who don't know what they want.

I'm tall, wear narrow-ish trousers, and don't like anything under about an inch and a half. 1.75" is best for me. 

Really, if anything would be disproportionate with long legs, it would be a smaller cuff.


----------



## Duvel

It's been a long time since I've purchased a Brooks Brothers shirt. I'm thinking about getting a few fairly soon as I have some events coming up, and I need some good shirts to go with my blazers and sport coats. What are your recommendations:

Regular vs. traditional fit?
Iron vs. non-iron?

Thanks.


----------



## Jovan

1.5" cuffs look good on just about everyone. You can go up or down from there according to height. 1.75" is considered the "Trad standard", but only because J. Press does it. I have a few narrow leg trousers for which that does not look disproportionate.

As a VERY VERY GENERAL rule of thumb, I'd say 1.25" if you wear Short length jackets, 1.5" if Regular, and 1.75" to 2" if Long.

Those who say no cuffs for short men don't understand proportion. Furthermore, I can't agree with the plain front = plain hem, pleat front = cuffed hem rule. It is often said by the same people who espouse the previous rule. So... short men aren't allowed to wear pleats? Plain front only for evening wear? There are too many exceptions for it to be any sort of rule.


----------



## Reuben

Duvel said:


> It's been a long time since I've purchased a Brooks Brothers shirt. I'm thinking about getting a few fairly soon as I have some events coming up, and I need some good shirts to go with my blazers and sport coats. What are your recommendations:
> 
> Regular vs. traditional fit?
> Iron vs. non-iron?
> 
> Thanks.


While the knee-jerk reaction (and my personal preference) is to go for must-iron in everything, I can understand the convenience of non-iron. The number one deciding factor for must-iron in my view, though, is breathability. Non-iron is much less breathable to me and leaves a damp, muggy mess if I get even the slightest bit warm.


----------



## Duvel

Thanks. Pretty much thinking the same on that. I have a couple of Lands' End non-iron OCBDs that I can hardly stand to even touch in the summer.


----------



## Billax

Duvel said:


> It's been a long time since I've purchased a Brooks Brothers shirt. I'm thinking about getting a few fairly soon as I have some events coming up, and I need some good shirts to go with my blazers and sport coats. What are your recommendations:
> 
> Regular vs. traditional fit?
> Iron vs. non-iron?
> 
> Thanks.


Everyone has their own opinion about these issues. For me, when I travel, I take only non-iron shirts. I've worked diligently to find good launders in my cities, and I just don't want the hotel or, worse, some off-premises launderer messing with my shirts. So, I take eight non-iron dress shirts with me on almost all trips of five days or more. The collars of the non-iron shirts don't roll quite as well, but BBs non-iron shirts have gotten better over the years. I can pop the non-irons in the washing machine at the hotel, do my correspondence on the MacBook Air while sitting in the laundry room, move 'em to the dryer while I catch up on news and sports, onto the hangers for the dry ones, toss the bunch over my shoulder and I'm on my way. I have tailors and launderers in both San Francisco and Durham. This Spring, I'm planning on being in New Haven for the entire Lacrosse Season. Being a roadie when the guys are on the road and in a furnished apartment on a three month lease when I'm in the Yale environs. Looking for a good local launderer in New Haven, but don't have one yet....

As to which fit, to me it depends on one's drop. I have a 9 inch drop, 42" chest and 33" waist. I feel comfortable with a Slim-fit, as it allows me about 8 inches of excess fabric, which I fold into a military tuck. If I had, say, an eleven inch drop, I'd probably go for the the extra-slim fit. Not much chance of that happening, though!


----------



## Duvel

What about sizing? I understand the traditional is generous. I don't mind a full fit but is the traditional too full?

I'm pretty much a commoner when it comes to laundering, anyway. There's usually an iron and an ironing board in the closet, and that makes me feel right at home.


----------



## Billax

I added that info to my reply while you were typing your question. I hope I've answered both your questions.


----------



## Duvel

Thank you, sir. My drop is more like 7 or 6 inches, so I'm guessing I'm a regular guy.


----------



## shipworthy

Speaking of iron v non-iron, another question. I've been looking around for tartan sport shirts for fall and haven't had much luck. I really like LL Bean's mini-tartan, but it's only available in "wrinkle-resistant." Does anyone have a good source for must iron tartan shirts, ideally with a smaller sized pattern?

Thanks!


----------



## Fading Fast

My rule of thumb for BB shirt sizing is that a BB Traditional fit is cut fuller than other manufacturers tradition or "normal" cut. Whereas, a BB slim is really like everyone else's traditional cut. And the extra slim at BB is like another makers slim. I buy my BB OCBD in slim fit because I want the cut to be full but not tent like; whereas if I want that in other brands, I just buy their normal (not slim) cut. Hope that isn't confusing.

As to iron no-iron: I'm in the go the iron route for breathability and feel - I want my cotton shirt to feel like cotton. That's just me and I understand that for others convenience outweighs my concern. No right and wrong - just decide what you care more about.


----------



## Billax

Fading Fast said:


> ...
> As to iron no-iron: I'm in the go the iron route for breathability and feel - I want my cotton shirt to feel like cotton. That's just me and I understand that for others convenience outweighs my concern. No right and wrong - just decide what you care more about.


Fading Fast, I'm with you on "must iron" for the vast majority of my dress shirts, but for extended trips - business or pleasure - I travel with a set of no-irons for the reasons I explained above. Probably just an idiosyncrasy on my part.


----------



## Duvel

I found this information: https://www.shirtdetective.com/brooks-brothers-shirts/

The regular fit would be generous on me. However, I feel like going with a slim cut is a little inauthentic to the Brooks Brother tradition. That's not logical, I'm sure, but that's my feeling right now.


----------



## Reuben

Duvel said:


> I found this information: https://www.shirtdetective.com/brooks-brothers-shirts/
> 
> The regular fit would be generous on me. However, I feel like going with a slim cut is a little inauthentic to the Brooks Brother tradition. That's not logical, I'm sure, but that's my feeling right now.


Meh, it depends on how generous. I used to love the regular fit but now I've lost enough weight (without going down in neck or arm size) that the regular fit really goes past "generous." Slim fits are a little closer to how regulars used to fit but I can still make my old regulars work well enough.


----------



## Duvel

I figure it's going to be good, regardless. If it turns out that the regular is just too large, I can always exchange them, or get them altered. I think it's likely though that they'll suit me fine. It's a bit of an experiment at this stage. In any case, I like having a little variety in my fits.



Reuben said:


> Meh, it depends on how generous. I used to love the regular fit but now I've lost enough weight (without going down in neck or arm size) that the regular fit really goes past "generous." Slim fits are a little closer to how regulars used to fit but I can still make my old regulars work well enough.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Does anyone know when Bean usually starts selling their shetland sweaters online?


----------



## wwilson

ArtVandalay said:


> Does anyone know when Bean usually starts selling their shetland sweaters online?


Yesterday, I believe...


----------



## orange fury

ArtVandalay said:


> Does anyone know when Bean usually starts selling their shetland sweaters online?





wwilson said:


> Yesterday, I believe...


Yep, ordered a ragg wool yesterday and exchanging a Shetland today


----------



## orange fury

Is anyone having issues applying the discount for the friends and family sale at Brooks Brothers right now? I keep putting in the code and it's saying that it's expired...


----------



## Duvel

I was just there, lining up a purchase, and had no problem with it. FWIW, I haven't actually completed the sale, but so far, it's working for my checkout total. I don't think it should expire for at least a couple of days.


----------



## Duvel

Further BB shirt questions: What's the difference between the $65 dress OCBD and the $95? (Both in the must-iron cotton.) Online, the $65 appears perhaps to be of lighter fabric, but it's hard to tell.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Further BB shirt questions: What's the difference between the $65 dress OCBD and the $95? (Both in the must-iron cotton.) Online, the $65 appears perhaps to be of lighter fabric, but it's hard to tell.


I think you may be looking at the same one I looked at a couple months ago, if it's the one I think it is, the $65 is actually pinpoint, not oxford cloth


----------



## Duvel

I see. Thank you!



orange fury said:


> I think you may be looking at the same one I looked at a couple months ago, if it's the one I think it is, the $65 is actually pinpoint, not oxford cloth


----------



## HerrDavid

Duvel said:


> I see. Thank you!


I would guess $65 means imported as well.


----------



## orange fury

HerrDavid said:


> I would guess $65 means imported as well.


It does. If it was oxford cloth, that wouldn't bother me enough to pay $30 more for the US version. Heresy, I know lol


----------



## mayostard

Jovan said:


> RibbedTee


I don't see tall sizes?


----------



## Duvel

So all in all, is it better to go with the $95 oxford BB?

I do see now that the cheaper shirt is made in Malaysia and the $95 is USA made.


----------



## Jovan

ArtVandalay said:


> I've been looking for a tall undershirt as well - mine tend to come untucked and bunch above my waistband - but I'm not seeing any tall models on their website. Am I missing it?





mayostard said:


> I don't see tall sizes?


They come longer than typical undershirts by default.


----------



## mayostard

Ahhh. Fantastic. Gonna give them a try. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jovan

They have measurements of each undershirt's back length when washed and dried on the product pages, so take a look and see if they'll work for you.


----------



## HerrDavid

Also, regarding BB OCBD fits, it's worth it, I think, to try 'em all. Being on the small and slender side, one would think me an ideal candidate for a 14.5x32 Slim Fit. At least, that's what I thought originally. But for some reason--perhaps because I have proportionally large shoulders relative to my neck--Slim Fit pulls slightly across the shoulders/chest on me. Nothing too terribly uncomfortable or unsightly, but enough to bother me. No such trouble with Regular Fit, happily. Nor with Traditional Fit naturally, which, by the way, I'm wearing today. I don't find Traditional Fit "tent-like" as many others do, but that might have something to do with my relative proportions. In any case, I wouldn't write it off without trying it.


----------



## Duvel

I find some other slim-fit shirts give me similar problems. I'm neither slim nor overweight, but I have broad shoulders from years of competitive swimming when I was young. I get that same kind of constriction in the shoulders with a slim-fit in my size that fits well everywhere else.



HerrDavid said:


> Also, regarding BB OCBD fits, it's worth it, I think, to try 'em all. Being on the small and slender side, one would think me an ideal candidate for a 14.5x32 Slim Fit. At least, that's what I thought originally. But for some reason--perhaps because I have proportionally large shoulders relative to my neck--Slim Fit pulls slightly across the shoulders/chest on me. Nothing too terribly uncomfortable or unsightly, but enough to bother me. No such trouble with Regular Fit, happily. Nor with Traditional Fit naturally, which, by the way, I'm wearing today. I don't find Traditional Fit "tent-like" as many others do, but that might have something to do with my relative proportions. In any case, I wouldn't write it off without trying it.


----------



## Himself

HerrDavid said:


> Also, regarding BB OCBD fits, it's worth it, I think, to try 'em all. Being on the small and slender side, one would think me an ideal candidate for a 14.5x32 Slim Fit. At least, that's what I thought originally. But for some reason--perhaps because I have proportionally large shoulders relative to my neck--Slim Fit pulls slightly across the shoulders/chest on me. Nothing too terribly uncomfortable or unsightly, but enough to bother me. No such trouble with Regular Fit, happily. Nor with Traditional Fit naturally, which, by the way, I'm wearing today. I don't find Traditional Fit "tent-like" as many others do, but that might have something to do with my relative proportions. In any case, I wouldn't write it off without trying it.


Did you upsize the neck to adjust for shrinkage? Most people find they need to, and going from 14.5 to 15 puts you in the next larger shirt body. This is how it works for me -- the 15.5 Slim pulls across the chest, but the 16 fits fine.

You might also try the Regular Fit, wider in the shoulders and generally between Slim and Traditional. It's also about the same as Lands End Traditional, or J. Press.

I feel silly to know all this. I guess I'm obsessed!


----------



## HerrDavid

Well, if it's silly to know all that, consider me among the ranks of the silly!

I cold wash my oxfords and air dry them, and by that method I've never had any issues with shrinkage or any such as to necessitate sizing up. A 15x32 slim fit does fit as you describe, but I find my normal size in Regular Fit works best, as it has more fabric to drape, something I find attractive in men's shirts. 

(I only mentioned Traditional Fit to let Duvel know that given the idiosyncracies of a particular body, one might find this fit to depart from its reputation as being unattractively voluminous, fit only for heavier men, etc.)


----------



## Billax

HerrDavid said:


> I cold wash my oxfords and air dry them, and by that method I've never had any issues with shrinkage or any such as to necessitate sizing up.


 I use that process and have had the same results as HerrDavid


----------



## HerrDavid

Billax said:


> I use that process and have had the same results as HerrDavid


Given the way you are often turned out so impeccably, I'm afraid this might be the only thing we have in common sartorially speaking. Alas! Still, it's good to know I'm doing something right.


----------



## Tahmasp

Has anyone had any experience with O'Connell's house-label suits, the ones that start at $595? For that price, what would I be getting in terms of fabric quality and construction?


----------



## Ensiferous

Tahmasp said:


> Has anyone had any experience with O'Connell's house-label suits, the ones that start at $595? For that price, what would I be getting in terms of fabric quality and construction?


I ordered one around 2 or 3 years ago and a Canadian (Cohen?) made suit was sent. I returned it due to the shoulders not being as-described. I did know at the time that the one I would receive might be Canadian, and I admit to being "hopeful" that the shoulders would not be padded heavily. That is called not listeneing to your gut, and operating under a bit too much unwarranted optimism. Luckily the return was straightforward.

Otherwise, the fabric and build were good for the price.

Possibly one might receive an American suit instead with a more appropriate shoulder.

I went with the H. Freeman suits instead, albeit at greater cost.


----------



## Tahmasp

Thanks, Ensiferous. My situation is that I want to buy new, and I'm looking for something in the under-$900 range. Unfortunately, that knocks out what seems like the only reliable natural-shoulder maker, Southwick. I know that J Press's Presstige and Pressclusive labels are made by Cohen, which I've had not-great experience with in the past, and I was hoping that O'Connell's might be using a natural-shoulder maker unknown to me. If anyone has a view as to what they'd buy new in this style for under $900, I would be eternally grateful.


----------



## Billax

Tahmasp,
Another possibility for you is to use Brooks Brothers made-to-order, half canvas suits in any of several fits. These suits use BB patterns, take four weeks to get to you and you choose from a wide range of cloth and tailoring features. I cannot vouch for this method directly, but my youngest Son has had one made and he is very happy with his Madison 3/2 roll sack suit. Cost, if ordered today? $503.95 with the Friends & Family 25% discount that expires tonight.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Billax - I am intrigued by your post above. Are you talking about the design your own feature on the website (https://www.brooksbrothers.com/on/d...uct-Configurator?id=configurator-madison-suit) or their in-store MTO program. I ask because when I look at the "design your own" the 3-button Madison suit has darts and that price point you mention is really attractive.


----------



## Billax

oxford cloth button down said:


> Billax - I am intrigued by your post above. Are you talking about the design your own feature on the website (https://www.brooksbrothers.com/on/d...uct-Configurator?id=configurator-madison-suit) or their in-store MTO program. I ask because when I look at the "design your own" the 3-button Madison suit has darts and that price point you mention is really attractive.


OCBD, I am talking about the "design your own" element of BB's services. I don't know whether the suit is darted or not. As a Madison fit, I expected it would not be. I've asked the boy and will post back when I get an answer.


----------



## Billax

OCBD and Thamasp,

My youngest replies that his Madison suit is, he's 99.9% sure, undarted. He made all the design decisions – from soup to nuts – and it is the first suit he's had made to his specs. He'll check on that 0.1% and get back to me if he's wrong. Regardless, a half canvassed BB Suit, made to a BB pattern, for $503.00 plus tax, is a heckuva deal.Matter of fact, I've talked myself into buying one today!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Bilax,

I agree that it is a great deal either way. The sack option would just make it that much more attractive. The best part for me is that they offer a Madison 37S which seems to fit me better than anything else so far.

What pattern did you get and what style?


----------



## Billax

oxford cloth button down said:


> Bilax,
> 
> I agree that it is a great deal either way. The sack option would just make it that much more attractive. The best part for me is that they offer a Madison 37S which seems to fit me better than anything else so far.
> 
> What pattern did you get and what style?


Well, OCBD, I didn't get anything. My youngest ordered the Madison in Grey Glen Plaid with patch pockets and 5/16" edge stitching, and the Red/Yellow repp lining.He loves it! He has a thick, muscular body, so the Madison if perfect for him. Today, I offered up a similar - you design it/I buy it - deal to my middle son. Unfortunately, he doesn't know his fits at BB, so we'll go to our local Brooks store this weekend and order on the next sale. Funnily enough, he, too, plans on ordering the Grey Glen Plaid. I'm pretty sure he's a Fitzgerald fit, but we'll see....


----------



## Tahmasp

Billax, thank you for the excellent, well-researched answer. I've missed the Friends and Family window but I will wait for the next sale and pursue this option.


----------



## niv

Okay, I have a dumb question. Is this a dirty buck: ? Something about it seems off but I can't put my finger on it and I'm looking for a traditional buck.


----------



## orange fury

Is any one familiar with Hunter Haig, specifically their tweed sportcoats?


----------



## Duvel

It looks like a buck to me, and a nice one, at that.


----------



## mhj

niv said:


> Okay, I have a dumb question. Is this a dirty buck: ? Something about it seems off but I can't put my finger on it and I'm looking for a traditional buck.


It looks good to me. I have on right now my Sherman Brothers private label dirty bucks and they look nearly identical. I'm sure there are differences between my $130 pair and these Alden's but not in appearance.


----------



## Duvel

I'm no expert but I believe I've read that older bucks (especially things like the Walk-Over that could be considered the reference) tended to have a bigger, wider toebox than a lot of contemporary bucks.


----------



## niv

Duvel said:


> I'm no expert but I believe I've read that older bucks (especially things like the Walk-Over that could be considered the reference) tended to have a bigger, wider toebox than a lot of contemporary bucks.


That could be what I noticed. I haven't owned dirty bucks for some 30 years so I'm remembering the older style.


----------



## Duvel

My GH Bass bucks circa 2009 have a narrower box compared to the Walk-Overs and vintage bucks I've seen.


----------



## RPV

If there's an old 3/2 sack Brooksease blazer, is it likely to be a nasty wrinkle-resistant deal? It's 100% wool, but labeled as Brooksease, which I've heard is usually 100% wool. 

I basically just want to know if it's going to feel and look wrinkle-resistant (I don't want that). Will it look natural?


----------



## orange fury

orange fury said:


> Is any one familiar with Hunter Haig, specifically their tweed sportcoats?


Bumping this from earlier, anyone familiar with them?


----------



## eagle2250

I have a couple of Hunter Haig sport coats, purchased from F. Rees Men's Store, Mt Airey, NC, 10 to 12 years ago. I used to have a Hunter Haig Tween that I grew out of and passed on a few years back. The jackets have all worn well and proven to be wise expenditures of my clothing dollars. I have been happy with the brand


----------



## wwilson

What is a typical price for sleeve alterations? I need some sleeves shortened on a couple of jackets and my go-to has been ill of late. New tailor wants $30 to shorten sleeves on 1 jacket...is this the norm?


----------



## orange fury

wwilson said:


> What is a typical price for sleeve alterations? I need some sleeves shortened on a couple of jackets and my go-to has been ill of late. New tailor wants $30 to shorten sleeves on 1 jacket...is this the norm?


Thats around what my tailor quoted me for lengthening sleeves


----------



## ThePopinjay

I usually pay around 20, maybe a tad under. Keep in mind those are middle-of-nowhere Ohio prices though.


----------



## Reuben

$20-30, depending on the difficulty and total amount of business I'm doing with him. Just dropped off a couple really nice suits, an old BBGF and a fairly new Oxxford, and since both were handsewn he'd have charged me $30 each if I wasn't getting enough done to both suits for him to knock it down to $20. Still, $120 for take in the waist, take up the hems, and let down the sleeves on each, plus patching the lining of the BBGF and darn/patch some minor holes on the pants of the Oxxford is a dang good deal in my book.


----------



## mkable1370

Hello everyone. Now that daytime high temps here in central CA are finally out of the 90's (thanks Autumn, you couldn't get here fast enough!) I decided to dust off the long sleeves!

I picked up this shirt back in the spring, and I like the shirt, but I can't seem to find a tie combination I like. Suggestions please?


----------



## orange fury

I would do a solid tie with a texture, like a solid burgundy knit. Is the shirt purple and white check? I think my monitor is messing up.


----------



## shadoman

RPV said:


> If there's an old 3/2 sack Brooksease blazer, is it likely to be a nasty wrinkle-resistant deal? It's 100% wool, but labeled as Brooksease, which I've heard is usually 100% wool.
> 
> I basically just want to know if it's going to feel and look wrinkle-resistant (I don't want that). Will it look natural?


I have 2 Brooksease Blazers and a suit, and they all drape very nicely, just like any decent 100% wool should.


----------



## orange fury

Need the opinion of the forum. Received my Corbin jacket today, and I think it's a true 3. I'm not sure though if it's a true three or if it was incorrectly pressed at one point (or if it might end up naturally rolling to a 3/2). Opinions appreciated:https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...2-4B78-B39C-A0FAB330800C_zpsgq29cs5p.jpg.htmlhttps://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...4-4E09-BD09-BAD49D9D8E84_zps1fm5eaad.jpg.html

2nd part to the question: should I keep it?


----------



## ThePopinjay

I'd definitely keep it. Reminds me of the way my herringbone rolls..


----------



## Reuben

orange fury said:


> Need the opinion of the forum. Received my Corbin jacket today, and I think it's a true 3. I'm not sure though if it's a true three or if it was incorrectly pressed at one point (or if it might end up naturally rolling to a 3/2). Opinions appreciated:2nd part to the question: should I keep it?


Check the finishing on the top buttonhole, is it cleaner on the outside or the inside? If cleaner on the inside it's a miss-pressed 3/2 and will hopefully return to a proper roll if you can prevent your drycleaner from making the same mistake. It could also be one of those 3/2.5 rolls, where the rolling is intended to stop right at or just past the first buttonhole but not quite down to the second. I've got one or two like that myself.


----------



## orange fury

ThePopinjay said:


> I'd definitely keep it. Reminds me of the way my herringbone rolls..


Part of the reason I was wondering was because of these pindots on the underside of the lapel. They seem to follow a line that would create a true 3, but it doesn't seem nearly as hard of a crease as 3 button jackets I've run into before. But I'm not sure if that's because it's fully canvassed:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...B-48AF-809D-890C902DC831_zpslnoagg49.jpg.html

should I see about taking it somewhere and getting it pressed as a 3/2?

Reuben: all 3 are finished the same on the inside, but it seemed to be starting a roll when the top is unbuttoned, unlike 3 button jackets I've seen in the past


----------



## orange fury

Okay, tried this again wearing an actual OCBD. This is both buttoned:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...F-4CF3-AD88-5A3329820F3B_zpsc5j2annx.jpg.html

this is only the 2nd button:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...C-4846-9413-B9FBDAA449BA_zpsln9lbvqs.jpg.html

The top button seemed to me like it was straining unnaturally when it was buttoned, but I wanted you guys to look at it. I have a terrible time being objective with myself lol.


----------



## Reuben

The canvasing does seem to end right at the button as opposed to a little above it, makes me think it's one of those 3/2.5 rolls where you don't button the top but it doesn't roll completely to the second button.


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> The canvasing does seem to end right at the button as opposed to a little above it, makes me think it's one of those 3/2.5 rolls where you don't button the top but it doesn't roll completely to the second button.


Is repressing a 3/2.5 into a 3/2 a possibility? Or would this even be desirable with the way it is now? I know it really can't be easily done with a true 3.

this is all new territory to me lol


----------



## Jovan

Probably a true button three if that's the case and the buttonhole isn't finished so well on the underside.


----------



## mkable1370

orange fury said:


> I would do a solid tie with a texture, like a solid burgundy knit. Is the shirt purple and white check? I think my monitor is messing up.


The color in my photo is a little off. It should be a pretty vibrant purple and white check. For no specific reason, I tend to avoid solid ties in favor of some sort of pattern. Maybe I need to be more open minded. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## gamma68

Orange Fury, nice blazer! Try this: hang it up in your bathroom for a few days so it's subjected to some steamy air from the shower. The lapel may naturally end up shaping itself to the way it was meant to roll after a few days. I had some luck with this method when my dry cleaners inadvertently pressed one of my 3/2 tweeds into a 3-button tweed. (I've since educated the staff there and have had no problems since then, knock on wood.)


----------



## Duvel

Orange, that blazer looks very good in the 3/2 stance.


----------



## Ensiferous

orange fury said:


> Need the opinion of the forum. Received my Corbin jacket today, and I think it's a true 3. I'm not sure though if it's a true three or if it was incorrectly pressed at one point (or if it might end up naturally rolling to a 3/2). Opinions appreciated2nd part to the question: should I keep it?


OF, just my opinion, but I would say: It looks great, the lapels bloom very nicely, button the center button and don't over analyze it, keep it, did I say it looks great? Wear it without reservation. It is an American classic.


----------



## Jovan

gamma68 said:


> Orange Fury, nice blazer! Try this: hang it up in your bathroom for a few days so it's subjected to some steamy air from the shower. The lapel may naturally end up shaping itself to the way it was meant to roll after a few days. I had some luck with this method when my dry cleaners inadvertently pressed one of my 3/2 tweeds into a 3-button tweed. (I've since educated the staff there and have had no problems since then, knock on wood.)


No! Do no such thing. All that will do is blow seams and mess up the inner construction.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Ensiferous said:


> OF, just my opinion, but I would say: It looks great, the lapels bloom very nicely, button the center button and don't over analyze it, keep it, did I say it looks great? Wear it without reservation. It is an American classic.


This times a million.


----------



## Spin Evans

Can you enjoy it if it isn't a "true" 3/2 jacket? That, I think, is the key. It looks _great_ to my eye, as well as those of other members whom I trust here. But if you feel odd wearing it, then that's a different thing entirely.

If you don't like it though, I'd be happy to take it off your hands. :biggrin:


----------



## gamma68

Jovan said:


> No! Do no such thing. All that will do is blow seams and mess up the inner construction.


I'm not suggested placing it in a sauna! I think the relatively light steam from a shower won't do it any harm. My jackets are just fine.

EDIT: Even a few days in regular summertime humidity (hanging up inside, sans air conditioning) would probably be enough to let this blazer conform to its original and intended shape.

I don't think it's a 3-button.


----------



## Duvel

I think the consensus is that you need to wear that jacket as a 3/2, Orange. It really does look good.


----------



## Duvel

For something completely different, what are the opinions here (EDITED) on sweater sizing? Is a little large okay? These days I feel more comfortable in fuller fits. On the other hand, I wonder what is too big or too long by any standards supposedly based in the "trad" sensibility. For example, my new tennis sweater falls a good 3 inches below my belt and sags a bit at the shoulders, and this is nowhere near how the PRL model wears it. 

How do you prefer to wear your sweaters?


----------



## orange fury

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I'll hang on to it, let the lapel do what it does, and not worry about it . I think I may keep these buttons too, they're kinda neat- certainly unique.



Duvel said:


> For something completely different, what is the consensus on sweater sizing? Is a little large okay? These days I feel more comfortable in fuller fits. On the other hand, I wonder what is too big or too long by any standards supposedly based in the "trad" sensibility. For example, my new tennis sweater falls a good 3 inches below my belt and sags a bit at the shoulders, and this is nowhere near how the PRL model wears it.
> 
> How do you prefer to wear your sweaters?


This is how I like mine:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...5-4DEA-AC7A-15BCD5DBA022_zpsnseo4yvy.jpg.html


----------



## Duvel

I'll try to post photos this weekend (my AAAC pictorial debut!). Mine is fuller, billows a bit more at the waist, and hangs a bit lower. I also have enough sleeve length to fold back a couple of inches. I'm not overweight, but I am an older gent, so maybe the larger size is more appropriate. Then again, mine may be a different style, as the weave looks looser than yours. Is that a Polo?

Any case, I'm mostly going by my charted sizes in almost everything these days. If the brand says I need a large for a 42-44 chest, that's what I go with. I'm finding that I somewhat regret my sized-down purchases.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> I'll try to post photos this weekend (my AAAC pictorial debut!). Mine is fuller, billows a bit more at the waist, and hangs a bit lower. I also have enough sleeve length to fold back a couple of inches. I'm not overweight, but I am an older gent, so maybe the larger size is more appropriate. Then again, mine may be a different style, as the weave looks looser than yours. Is that a Polo?
> 
> Any case, I'm mostly going by my charted sizes in almost everything these days. If the brand says I need a large for a 42-44 chest, that's what I go with. I'm finding that I somewhat regret my sized-down purchases.


Mine is PRL, but I've noticed that weave can vary greatly depending on the model.


----------



## Billax

The trouble with "consensus."

I notice that many posters seek to know "the consensus" answer to a member's question. In my opinion, knowing the consensus gives you a mediocre answer. On any bell curve, the consensus is the high cluster peak of a random distribution. Absent any evidence to the contrary, members of this forum who respond to queries here should be assumed to form a bell curve. Stanford-Binet IQ test takers form a Bell curve. American Males form bell curves for height and weight. Seeking to know the average IQ of a group or the average height of a group tells us something. In seeking the consensus of AAAT members, copying that consensus can avoid the worst possibilities, but only at the cost of foregoing the best answers. Personally, I NEVER want to know what the consensus is in menswear, or better, I want to know it just to make sure I'm not in it!

I think that finding experts - and listening to them - is always a better guide to excellence than finding - and listening to - the mean. Because I'm such a nice guy, I'll give you two experts in the field of TNSIL menswear. Take anything said or written by Roycru or Ensiferous as Gospel. I know five more on this Forum, but for fear of not naming a very few others who MAY be experts, I'll leave it at two.

One recent example will tell you everything you need to know about experts. This story is about "Bloom" and I'm not talking' about Pansies!

Orange Fury asked a question about a second-hand Blazer he had recently purchased. Mr. Fury has been a member of this Forum for nine months. Despite averaging 6 posts a day in that time. he is inexperienced. There is nothing wrong with inexperience. He asks good questions. That's the key! On the Blazer topic, he posted a couple of pictures and asked about whether the Blazer was a 3 button or a 3/2 roll coat. A number of members responded. I'll leave it at that. Then, Ensiferous stepped in. He included the following sentence: "Just my opinion, but I would say: It looks great, the lapels bloom very nicely, button the center button and don't over analyze it, keep it, did I say it looks great? Wear it without reservation. It is an American classic."

Maybe one percent of the members here can give a solid definition of bloom, but I'd bet a reasonable amount of cash that it's less than one percent. When you get an answer including bloom, when Bloom is a central issue in the lapel type of a 3/2 roll, it is useful to know that you are in the presence of an expert. I'll happily present a Roycru example, should my point not be sufficiently made with Ensiferous' solitary example.

It's my hope that guys are here to become really, really good at this particular style! If I'm right, then "mean seeking" is the wrong approach.

Thanks for tolerating my rant.


----------



## Duvel

A well delivered rant, Billax, and your points are well taken. Thank you, sir. I will clarify that I am seeking opinions, expert or otherwise, rather than a consensus. I misused that term, and I agree that seeking consensus is inappropriate to this sort of inquiry. I appreciate your calling my attention to this.


----------



## WillBarrett

Seeking another opinion. Recently picked up a BB long-sleeve polo merino sweater in maroon. Would look great with grey trousers. It didn't sell on e-bay so I'm going to keep it for myself. My question is...what do I wear underneath it? Undershirt? Collared shirt of some sort? If the latter, what kind?


----------



## ThePopinjay

WillBarrett said:


> Seeking another opinion. Recently picked up a BB long-sleeve polo merino sweater in maroon. Would look great with grey trousers. It didn't sell on e-bay so I'm going to keep it for myself. My question is...what do I wear underneath it? Undershirt? Collared shirt of some sort? If the latter, what kind?


I have a long sleeved navy polo that I wear by itself under a sportcoat or with an oxford shirt underneath of it.


----------



## Walter Denton

I typically wear a long sleeve Merino polo with a v-neck undershirt so that it doesn't show. I'm an old fogey so I don't wear collared shirts under polos - "Not that there is anything wrong with that."


----------



## Fading Fast

Billax said:


> The trouble with "consensus."
> 
> I notice that many posters seek to know "the consensus" answer to a member's question. In my opinion, knowing the consensus gives you a mediocre answer. On any bell curve, the consensus is the high cluster peak of a random distribution. Absent any evidence to the contrary, members of this forum who respond to queries here should be assumed to form a bell curve. Stanford-Binet IQ test takers form a Bell curve. American Males form bell curves for height and weight. Seeking to know the average IQ of a group or the average height of a group tells us something. In seeking the consensus of AAAT members, copying that consensus can avoid the worst possibilities, but only at the cost of foregoing the best answers. Personally, I NEVER want to know what the consensus is in menswear, or better, I want to know it just to make sure I'm not in it!
> 
> I think that finding experts - and listening to them - is always a better guide to excellence than finding - and listening to - the mean. Because I'm such a nice guy, I'll give you two experts in the field of TNSIL menswear. Take anything said or written by Roycru or Ensiferous as Gospel. I know five more on this Forum, but for fear of not naming a very few others who MAY be experts, I'll leave it at two.
> 
> One recent example will tell you everything you need to know about experts. This story is about "Bloom" and I'm not talking' about Pansies!
> 
> Orange Fury asked a question about a second-hand Blazer he had recently purchased. Mr. Fury has been a member of this Forum for nine months. Despite averaging 6 posts a day in that time. he is inexperienced. There is nothing wrong with inexperience. He asks good questions. That's the key! On the Blazer topic, he posted a couple of pictures and asked about whether the Blazer was a 3 button or a 3/2 roll coat. A number of members responded. I'll leave it at that. Then, Ensiferous stepped in. He included the following sentence: "Just my opinion, but I would say: It looks great, the lapels bloom very nicely, button the center button and don't over analyze it, keep it, did I say it looks great? Wear it without reservation. It is an American classic."
> 
> Maybe one percent of the members here can give a solid definition of bloom, but I'd bet a reasonable amount of cash that it's less than one percent. When you get an answer including bloom, when Bloom is a central issue in the lapel type of a 3/2 roll, it is useful to know that you are in the presence of an expert. I'll happily present a Roycru example, should my point not be sufficiently made with Ensiferous' solitary example.
> 
> It's my hope that guys are here to become really, really good at this particular style! If I'm right, then "mean seeking" is the wrong approach.
> 
> Thanks for tolerating my rant.


Awesome - wonderful logic, well argued and (every so slightly) intimidating. Well said.


----------



## ChrisRS

In my industry, we call it benchmarking yourself into mediocrity. That is, taking a program or process in which the industry practice is known to be excellent, pushing it into your individual company, where your specific culture turns the formally excellent practice into a mere shell of its former self.

Billax puts it into excellent technical terms, I thought I would offer up a more general version.


----------



## Himself

WillBarrett said:


> Seeking another opinion. Recently picked up a BB long-sleeve polo merino sweater in maroon. Would look great with grey trousers. It didn't sell on e-bay so I'm going to keep it for myself. My question is...what do I wear underneath it? Undershirt? Collared shirt of some sort? If the latter, what kind?


I wear these a lot, over button downs or sports undershirts (they're ideal for bicycling in cold weather). To me they're a compromise, fine with a collared shirt, but without one, better than a crew or V-neck.

I don't think they're Ivy at all, and maybe not particularly trad.


----------



## Billax

WillBarrett said:


> Seeking another opinion. Recently picked up a BB long-sleeve polo merino sweater in maroon. Would look great with grey trousers. It didn't sell on e-bay so I'm going to keep it for myself. My question is...what do I wear underneath it? Undershirt? Collared shirt of some sort? If the latter, what kind?


Occasionally, I'll wear a cotton turtleneck under it, but I've ended up mostly using a striped OCBD under the Popover sweater, often above Stone twill trousers:


----------



## Duvel

If I had to pigeonhole it, I might call it preppy. But I like the look of an OCBD under these, as modeled by Billax. I sometimes do the same with my rugby shirts.



Himself said:


> I wear these a lot, over button downs or sports undershirts (they're ideal for bicycling in cold weather). To me they're a compromise, fine with a collared shirt, but without one, better than a crew or V-neck.
> 
> I don't think they're Ivy at all, and maybe not particularly trad.


----------



## stcolumba

Billax said:


> The trouble with "consensus."
> 
> I notice that many posters seek to know "the consensus" answer to a member's question. In my opinion, knowing the consensus gives you a mediocre answer. On any bell curve, the consensus is the high cluster peak of a random distribution. Absent any evidence to the contrary, members of this forum who respond to queries here should be assumed to form a bell curve. Stanford-Binet IQ test takers form a Bell curve. American Males form bell curves for height and weight. Seeking to know the average IQ of a group or the average height of a group tells us something. In seeking the consensus of AAAT members, copying that consensus can avoid the worst possibilities, but only at the cost of foregoing the best answers. Personally, I NEVER want to know what the consensus is in menswear, or better, I want to know it just to make sure I'm not in it!
> 
> I think that finding experts - and listening to them - is always a better guide to excellence than finding - and listening to - the mean. Because I'm such a nice guy, I'll give you two experts in the field of TNSIL menswear. Take anything said or written by Roycru or Ensiferous as Gospel. I know five more on this Forum, but for fear of not naming a very few others who MAY be experts, I'll leave it at two.
> 
> One recent example will tell you everything you need to know about experts. This story is about "Bloom" and I'm not talking' about Pansies!
> 
> Orange Fury asked a question about a second-hand Blazer he had recently purchased. Mr. Fury has been a member of this Forum for nine months. Despite averaging 6 posts a day in that time. he is inexperienced. There is nothing wrong with inexperience. He asks good questions. That's the key! On the Blazer topic, he posted a couple of pictures and asked about whether the Blazer was a 3 button or a 3/2 roll coat. A number of members responded. I'll leave it at that. Then, Ensiferous stepped in. He included the following sentence: "Just my opinion, but I would say: It looks great, the lapels bloom very nicely, button the center button and don't over analyze it, keep it, did I say it looks great? Wear it without reservation. It is an American classic."
> 
> Maybe one percent of the members here can give a solid definition of bloom, but I'd bet a reasonable amount of cash that it's less than one percent. When you get an answer including bloom, when Bloom is a central issue in the lapel type of a 3/2 roll, it is useful to know that you are in the presence of an expert. I'll happily present a Roycru example, should my point not be sufficiently made with Ensiferous' solitary example.
> 
> It's my hope that guys are here to become really, really good at this particular style! If I'm right, then "mean seeking" is the wrong approach.
> 
> Thanks for tolerating my rant.


I shall refer to this as the Billax Manifesto!


----------



## Billax

stcolumba said:


> I shall refer to this as the Billax Manifesto!


Well, that's good, stcolumba, since you're one of the five unnamed experts - now four!


----------



## orange fury

So, I got my Corbin back from the dry cleaner, only to find that the enamel had been knocked off the bottom button:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...A-4C72-A97A-35544E38E3FC_zpshdhgaimv.jpg.html

opinions needed, should I:
•leave it alone
•try to remove the enamel on the other buttons (though I like the burgundy buttons a lot, the gold behind it doesn't look bad at least. I just wanted something to differentiate it from the JPress 3/2 I have incoming)
•try to find another burgundy enamel Corbin button (if so, anyone have any links?)


----------



## ytc

You can have someone re-enamel it, or, better yet, get new buttons all together.


----------



## orange fury

I'm probably going to see if I can get a replacement set, but for the time being, I realized that the top button is hidden enough that I can just swap the top and bottom buttons and no one will know the difference.


----------



## darkmark

How do you add a footer to your posts?


----------



## wwilson

darkmark said:


> How do you add a footer to your posts?


The footer is typically called a "signature" and it can be accessed/edited under the "Settings" page...top right of your screen.


----------



## darkmark

Thanks.



wwilson said:


> The footer is typically called a "signature" and it can be accessed/edited under the "Settings" page...top right of your screen.


----------



## zDanTheMan

Hey guys, I am new here, and also new to trad. I just bought my first suit a few days ago for job interviews and what not. I ended up buying a Brooks Brothers Madison fit navy suit. I am on the slightly bigger side I would say, but not "fat" (6'3", 235 lb., 42 waist, 46L jacket), so I think Madison was a good choice. The Fitzgerald fit didn't feel as nice or comfortable. I also bought a navy blazer and some charcoal pants in Madison fit. Anyways, when I was getting the pants hemmed, I opted for "cuffs, no break," as they say. These are my first dress clothes, and when I told them this I got some strange looks, and they asked, "Are you sure?" quite a few times. I said yes, because I do like the look, to which they responded, "Alright, I hope you don't regret this." This really made me question this decision, and I'm not sure why they thought it was so strange. Has anyone else experienced this? Also, one thing I was thinking about afterwards was that I forgot to check how wide the leg opening was for the trousers. It looked okay to me in the mirrors, not too wide. I was wondering, is it possible to have the trousers tapered after they are hemmed and cuffed? I think I would like to have the openings around 17" for the charcoal odd trousers and around 18" for the suit trousers, but I forgot to check what they were from the factory. I think they might be around 19" so I might want to change them. Would it look strange to have too much taper for a 42" waist? What is an "ideal" leg opening for no break with cuffs? My shoe size is 12 for reference. Also, I got 1.5" cuffs. Aren't 1.75" cuffs more trad? Haha too late I guess.

Thanks
Dan


----------



## Fading Fast

zDanTheMan said:


> Hey guys, I am new here, and also new to trad. I just bought my first suit a few days ago for job interviews and what not. I ended up buying a Brooks Brothers Madison fit navy suit. I am on the slightly bigger side I would say, but not "fat" (6'3", 235 lb., 42 waist, 46L jacket), so I think Madison was a good choice. The Fitzgerald fit didn't feel as nice or comfortable. I also bought a navy blazer and some charcoal pants in Madison fit. Anyways, when I was getting the pants hemmed, I opted for "cuffs, no break," as they say. These are my first dress clothes, and when I told them this I got some strange looks, and they asked, "Are you sure?" quite a few times. I said yes, because I do like the look, to which they responded, "Alright, I hope you don't regret this." This really made me question this decision, and I'm not sure why they thought it was so strange. Has anyone else experienced this? Also, one thing I was thinking about afterwards was that I forgot to check how wide the leg opening was for the trousers. It looked okay to me in the mirrors, not too wide. I was wondering, is it possible to have the trousers tapered after they are hemmed and cuffed? I think I would like to have the openings around 17" for the charcoal odd trousers and around 18" for the suit trousers, but I forgot to check what they were from the factory. I think they might be around 19" so I might want to change them. Would it look strange to have too much taper for a 42" waist? What is an "ideal" leg opening for no break with cuffs? My shoe size is 12 for reference. Also, I got 1.5" cuffs. Aren't 1.75" cuffs more trad? Haha too late I guess.
> 
> Thanks
> Dan


Welcome. My head is spinning: you're new here, new to trad, just bought your first dress clothes and are discussing the width of the leg opening and cuff. Really? I was probably buying suits for five years before I even knew those were variables.

Either you are a clothing savant, or you have had some exposure to suit tailoring in some way. Other than this useless observation, I can't help you with your questions, but I know that OCBD, Jovan and a few others will have very specific and smart Trad guidance for you.

The above is all meant in good fun, but I am truly impressed that you seem to know so much for being new to tailored clothing.


----------



## Duvel

zDan, in my humble opinion, a cuff at 1.5 looks fine. I don't know if 1.75 is more trad or not. I personally go with something a hair over 1.5 to make sure it looks like 1.5--usually I ask for (or attempt to sew myself in the case of my chinos) a cuff at 1 5/8 inches.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

zDanthe Man - Welcome to the forum. It is certainly possible to have trousers tapered after they have been hemmed and cuffed. As for cuffs, I would say something like 5'10" and under should go with 1.5". 5'10"- 6' should be 1.75" which seems to be the Trad Standard. 6' and over - 1.75"-2". Basically keep it proportional.

The following posts might be of use when trying to figure out what the taper should be: https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2014/06/bills-made-up-rules-for-tnsil-apparel-shoe-impact/

These trouser metrics are what to consider when looking for collegiate fit chinos (aka too slim for suits): https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2013/11/collegiate-cut-chinos-part-1/


----------



## colorvision

Is resting belts between wearings important, as it is for shoes?


----------



## Himself

oxford cloth button down said:


> The following posts might be of use when trying to figure out what the taper should be: https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2014/06/bills-made-up-rules-for-tnsil-apparel-shoe-impact/


I had always _felt_ the same way about trouser bottom width, but didn't know why. Thanks for breaking it down!


----------



## Duvel

That is good information. Thank you for sharing, OCBD. As I am just over 6', I think I'm going to try going with 1.75" the next time I get cuffed trousers and see how that looks.



oxford cloth button down said:


> zDanthe Man - Welcome to the forum. It is certainly possible to have trousers tapered after they have been hemmed and cuffed. As for cuffs, I would say something like 5'10" and under should go with 1.5". 5'10"- 6' should be 1.75" which seems to be the Trad Standard. 6' and over - 1.75"-2". Basically keep it proportional.
> 
> The following posts might be of use when trying to figure out what the taper should be: https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2014/06/bills-made-up-rules-for-tnsil-apparel-shoe-impact/
> 
> These trouser metrics are what to consider when looking for collegiate fit chinos (aka too slim for suits): https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2013/11/collegiate-cut-chinos-part-1/


----------



## darkmark

Thanks for sharing. Looks like I have another blog to read.



oxford cloth button down said:


> zDanthe Man - Welcome to the forum. It is certainly possible to have trousers tapered after they have been hemmed and cuffed. As for cuffs, I would say something like 5'10" and under should go with 1.5". 5'10"- 6' should be 1.75" which seems to be the Trad Standard. 6' and over - 1.75"-2". Basically keep it proportional.
> 
> The following posts might be of use when trying to figure out what the taper should be: https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2014/06/bills-made-up-rules-for-tnsil-apparel-shoe-impact/
> 
> These trouser metrics are what to consider when looking for collegiate fit chinos (aka too slim for suits): https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2013/11/collegiate-cut-chinos-part-1/


----------



## zDanTheMan

Fading Fast said:


> Welcome. My head is spinning: you're new here, new to trad, just bought your first dress clothes and are discussing the width of the leg opening and cuff. Really? I was probably buying suits for five years before I even knew those were variables.
> 
> Either you are a clothing savant, or you have had some exposure to suit tailoring in some way. Other than this useless observation, I can't help you with your questions, but I know that OCBD, Jovan and a few others will have very specific and smart Trad guidance for you.
> 
> The above is all meant in good fun, but I am truly impressed that you seem to know so much for being new to tailored clothing.


Haha, thank you. I guess I just did my research. I'm a bit obsessive when it comes to things I am interested in, and recently I've become interested in dressing nicely, which is how I discovered trad, and these forums. I did some research before buying my first suit. I guess when I do things, I just like to do them properly.



oxford cloth button down said:


> zDanthe Man - Welcome to the forum. It is certainly possible to have trousers tapered after they have been hemmed and cuffed. As for cuffs, I would say something like 5'10" and under should go with 1.5". 5'10"- 6' should be 1.75" which seems to be the Trad Standard. 6' and over - 1.75"-2". Basically keep it proportional.
> 
> The following posts might be of use when trying to figure out what the taper should be: https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2014/06/bills-made-up-rules-for-tnsil-apparel-shoe-impact/
> 
> These trouser metrics are what to consider when looking for collegiate fit chinos (aka too slim for suits): https://oxfordclothbuttondown.com/2013/11/collegiate-cut-chinos-part-1/


Thanks a lot! I love your blog. You have been one of my huge inspirations for trad dress, and dressing properly. I'm glad you take the time to help new guys out like me. You and Billax are huge inspirations for me, and I hope to one day be on your guys' level when it comes to dressing nicely. Though I am doubtful I'll ever be able to match Billax's great style. He seems to be somewhat of a legend when it comes to dressing trad. I hope to acquire some 3/2 sack suits and coats in the near future as well. By the way did you ever find the perfect pair of chinos? How are O'Connell's?


----------



## Duvel

I'm with you, zDan. Billax and OCBD are my main sources of inspiration, and I too aspire to their style as well as manner.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> I'm with you, zDan. Billax and OCBD are my main sources of inspiration, and I too aspire to their style as well as manner.


...and then there's Orange Fury, who's like AAAT's version of the obnoxious uncle that shows up drunk, uninvited, and wearing plaid.

:devil:

Lol welcome zDan, follow OCBD's and Billax's lead and you can't go wrong.


----------



## orange fury

Question- did Orvis ever make their 3/2 travel blazer in Mexico?

...also, is $32 a good deal for a 3/2, partially lined, vintage Orvis with patch pockets?


----------



## niv

My father always told me that you measure the proper length of a suit jacket by cupping your hands and the end of the jacket should end where your hands bend - if that makes any sense. I go to a MTM measure place and the guy tells me that rule is lost to history and the jacket can be any reasonable length (and he knew at the time I planned to order a sack suit). I've always been trad and am doubtful that he is right. Is my method the correct method for informally measuring length or is there another preferred method?


----------



## Billax

niv said:


> My father always told me that you measure the proper length of a suit jacket by cupping your hands and the end of the jacket should end where your hands bend - if that makes any sense. I go to a MTM measure place and the guy tells me that rule is lost to history and the jacket can be any reasonable length (and he knew at the time I planned to order a sack suit). I've always been trad and am doubtful that he is right. Is my method the correct method for informally measuring length or is there another preferred method?


Your Father is correct. That is a common and almost always correct way to determine whether, or not, one's suit jacket or sport coat covers one's rump. While there are other methods, none - in my experience - is consistently better than the one your father taught you.

Your tailor, on the other hand, suffers from too much data and too little knowledge. Had he responded to your request by saying that, "Your Father's method of determining appropriate coat length is correct for both the Traditional and Ivy League styles, though certain fashions now have men showing part of their rump." That response would have /should have given you confidence that your tailor had both a sense of style and knowledge of fashion. Sadly, it appears your tailor had factoids, but no knowledge. In my experience, you, as the customer, must hold the knowledge, as your suppliers will, usually, have data but no context.

So long as you remain interested in the Ivy League style, it seems that listening to your Father would be a good idea.


----------



## niv

Thanks, Billax.


----------



## L-feld

I just purchased some chocolate brown suede wingtips. It's not my first dip into suede, but the suede shoes I do have (bucks, blue suede loafers) are very summer casual and I always wear them with a surcingle or ribbon belt.

These brown suede shoes, however, are a little dressier and I plan on wearing them with flannels, corduroys, maybe pressed khakis. I have a dark brown braided leather belt as well as a dark brown strap for my engine turned buckle. Are these acceptable to pair with suede? Any other recommendations?


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## Billax

I find matching one's leathers to be desirable.


----------



## sskim3

orange fury said:


> Question- did Orvis ever make their 3/2 travel blazer in Mexico?
> 
> ...also, is $32 a good deal for a 3/2, partially lined, vintage Orvis with patch pockets?


For $32? That sounds pretty solid to me and worth the gamble. Done deal if it was sack. Worst case scenario, you return it or break even by selling back on eBay or here.


----------



## Duvel

I'll back up sskim3 on this. I don't know the particular blazer you're talking about, Orange, but for whatever it is worth, I have two Orvis 3/2 sack jackets that I love. One's a tweed, the other's a light silk, and both are very solid indeed. Both of mine are "Made in the USA", so I'm not sure if that makes a difference, but I would hazard the guess that your particular blazer is a good deal at that price, especially if it is a sack cut.



orange fury said:


> Question- did Orvis ever make their 3/2 travel blazer in Mexico?
> 
> ...also, is $32 a good deal for a 3/2, partially lined, vintage Orvis with patch pockets?


----------



## L-feld

Billax said:


> I find matching one's leathers to be desirable.


Would a braided suede belt be too much of a formality mismatch? I assume I am never going to find a suede strap for my tiffany buckle and I find normal belts really uncomfortable.

These are the shoes, btw:


----------



## orange fury

sskim3 said:


> For $32? That sounds pretty solid to me and worth the gamble. Done deal if it was sack. Worst case scenario, you return it or break even by selling back on eBay or here.





Duvel said:


> I'll back up sskim3 on this. I don't know the particular blazer you're talking about, Orange, but for whatever it is worth, I have two Orvis 3/2 sack jackets that I love. One's a tweed, the other's a light silk, and both are very solid indeed. Both of mine are "Made in the USA", so I'm not sure if that makes a difference, but I would hazard the guess that your particular blazer is a good deal at that price, especially if it is a sack cut.


Thanks guys, went ahead and got it for $31.94. From the measurements, it seems like an identical fit to my stafford jackets, so that's a good sign. Also, I don't see any darts (seller's photo):


----------



## stcolumba

niv said:


> My father always told me that you measure the proper length of a suit jacket by cupping your hands and the end of the jacket should end where your hands bend - if that makes any sense. I go to a MTM measure place and the guy tells me that rule is lost to history and the jacket can be any reasonable length (and he knew at the time I planned to order a sack suit). I've always been trad and am doubtful that he is right. Is my method the correct method for informally measuring length or is there another preferred method?


The arm/hand rule for determining the proper length of a jacket is not always reliable. A more reliable way to determine this is to answer the question: does the coat length cover the "seat"? I know of someone who has short arms. If he were to use the arm/hand rule, his derriere would not be covered. Nothing looks more silly, obnoxious, and odd than a coat that is too short. Such a look is not fashion. It is the look of a ostentatious costume. Any tailor who thinks that short coats are "fashion" ought to be avoided! IMO, nothing is more misleading than judging the fit of a coat from the front view. It is the backside that is more telling. From that view, shoulders, waist, and length concerns are seen immediately. I love Billax's comment about your tailor knowing "factoids but no knowledge". Yes, indeed!


----------



## Duvel

It looks like a great jacket, OF. I look forward to your fit pix.


----------



## niv

I have long arms so I think I adequately cover the maximus using the cupped hands method. Thanks!


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> It looks like a great jacket, OF. I look forward to your fit pix.


Thanks! In a two week period, I went from 0-3 3/2 navy sacks (in addition to my two navy linen/cotton jackets and my navy doeskin blazer......bringing my total to 6 navy blazers...), not entirely sure how that happened lol


----------



## sskim3

orange fury said:


> Thanks! In a two week period, I went from 0-3 3/2 navy sacks (in addition to my two navy linen/cotton jackets and my navy doeskin blazer......bringing my total to 6 navy blazers...), not entirely sure how that happened lol


If its closer to a 40R, I'll be more than happy to take it off your hands.


----------



## orange fury

sskim3 said:


> If its closer to a 40R, I'll be more than happy to take it off your hands.


Haha per the measurements, it looks like it'll require no tailoring to fit me


----------



## mhj

What's the appropriateness of wearing a linen tie in the cooler months?


----------



## orange fury

mhj said:


> What's the appropriateness of wearing a linen tie in the cooler months?


I wouldnt, not necessarily from a weight standpoint, but more that linen ties are usually summery colors and patterns


----------



## darkmark

How do you insert pictures into your posts? I use the insert picture button, choose my file, and then nothing happens.


----------



## Fading Fast

Billax said:


> In my experience, you, as the customer, must hold the knowledge, as your suppliers will, usually, have data but no context.


This is very accurate and applies to many, many situations - clothes, cars, houses, travel, etc. It is why life can be exhausting as you have to do your own study and research on nearly everything.

You can't "trust the professional" as much as you might want to as many (not all) professionals are only moderately knowledgeable. This works for them since most of their clients have less knowledge than they do, so they appear "knowledgeable and informed" to those clients.


----------



## Fading Fast

mhj said:


> What's the appropriateness of wearing a linen tie in the cooler months?


I would avoid it as linen - the look and feel - just reads summer. That said, I have a linen-wool blend tie (I have know idea why someone manufactured it that way), that looks heavy in texture (even though it's 50/50, the wool seems to dominate) and is in a grey color, so I wear it in the fall and winter as it looks right even though it is "linen" in theory.


----------



## gamma68

Is there anything I can do to darken a brown leather button to match the others on a jacket?

I thrifted a 3/2 Harris Tweed jacket recently, and the middle button has been worn of much of its brown color. I presume this comes from years of handling. I have images below to show the difference between the middle and lowest button.

What, if anything, can I do to restore the color of the middle button to match the others?


----------



## Topsider

I'd probably just replace them.

https://bennosbuttons.com/Leather-Buttons-fashion-Buttons-Coat-Buttons-Sweater-Buttons


----------



## orange fury

Topsider said:


> I'd probably just replace them.
> 
> https://bennosbuttons.com/Leather-Buttons-fashion-Buttons-Coat-Buttons-Sweater-Buttons


Thank you for that, I need to replace the ones on my Carroll Reed


----------



## Fading Fast

Gamma, I'd keep them as is and appreciate the buttons as patina. I love wear like that, but as Topsider says, easy enough to replace. I think my view might be an East coast, Puritan thing that I got from my grandmother. Either way, looks like a great jacket - enjoy.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Fading Fast said:


> Gamma, I'd keep them as is and appreciate the buttons as patina. I love wear like that, but as Topsider says, easy enough to replace. I think my view might be an East coast, Puritan thing that I got from my grandmother. Either way, looks like a great jacket - enjoy.


As I've said before, I'm not a finicky dresser and I'm not really one to worry about things being perfect. I agree with FF, I'd keep the buttons, they definitely add some charm.

To get more directly to your question, I can't think of anyway to change the color, maybe you could use some brown shoe cream or something? I might try that, could leave some of the patina while cleaning it up a bit. Like Topsider said, it'd be easiest just to replace them.


----------



## Topsider

I doubt shoe polish would give the desired result. There are specialized leather dyes out there, if you're really determined to try to spruce it up. I have no experience with these, however.


----------



## ThePopinjay

I meant a shoe cream, not a shoe polish. I touched up a burgundy belt with some burgundy Allen Edmonds shoe cream that I scuffed. Worked okay for me!


----------



## Duvel

Another vote here for keeping the buttons, Gamma. Part of the trad aesthetic, to me, is looking like you've owned this stuff forever. Sometimes we have to cheat a little to achieve that part, i.e., thrifiting, and in this case, the wear and tear is a bonus.


----------



## 3rd&17

This could be my first tweed purchase and I was wondering if this would be worth the gamble: 



It states that it has two small holes that are an "easy fix," however, I cannot spot them in the picture. I've asked for additional information or picture, however, they have not answer yet.


----------



## gamma68

OK, fellas. You've convinced me to keep the buttons on my HT as-is. 

3rd&17, I don't see the holes, either. A herringbone pattern won't be as easy to darn as a flecked jacket. But if the holes are that hard to spot, it may not matter much. You might be able to wear the jacket as it is without worrying about the holes. If the seller responds with additional photos, that would be the best guide.


----------



## Spin Evans

That is a gorgeous jacket. I would be tempted to go up against you if 1. it wasn't an ungentlemanly thing to do and 2. if the shoulders were softer.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

L-Feld:

The braided belt would be great with those shoes for the bottom 75% of their formality -- in fact, it might make them work even better at the very casual (no jacket) end of the range.

I'm not sure about it for the more formal end of the range, though, and that's the point where I start to sweat matching leathers a little more.

That said, I admit that I am not so precise in matching leathers as Billax, and I'm happy to wear a leather belt in roughly the same shade as my suede shoes. That said, a suede belt is on the list, albeit near the bottom.


----------



## Reuben

Billax said:


> I find matching one's leathers to be desirable.


And if the shoe leather happens to be dark green?


----------



## Billax

Reuben said:


> And if the shoe leather happens to be dark green?


Piece of cake, Reuben! Rancourt already has an answer.

Here's the page where you can order up that super match-matchy green Cordovan belt!


----------



## Reuben

I wish I were matching green shell, but it's just green calf. Guess I'll have to do a custom order for a green calfskin belt from Rancourt.


----------



## Billax

Reuben said:


> I wish I were matching green shell, but it's just green calf. Guess I'll have to do a custom order for a green calfskin belt from Rancourt.


As with so many other things, Reuben, your grammar is impeccable. It is a great rarity to see the "I wish it were..." usage!

I take it you come from good stock.


----------



## zDanTheMan

I have a question. When one is wearing a traditional natural shoulder 3/2 gray flannel sack suit, or navy worsted, should these be paired with an ocbd shirt? Also, what are the most classic shoes to wear with these suits? Cordovan loafers? Wingtips? Captoes? I know this is all personal preference, but I am mainly wondering how these suits were worn back in the 60s ivy league days, so I can get a better idea of how these should be worn. Are black captoes usually too formal? I think cordovan long wing bluchers and wingtip bal oxfords look nice. What are the most traditional ivy league shoes to wear with 3/2 sack suits?


----------



## Jovan

Dan, the short answer is you _can_ wear an OC(or pinpoint, or broadcloth)BD if you want to effect a certain Ivy League image. They certainly go together well. Loafers should mostly be avoided with suits with a few exceptions. Cap toe balmorals, long wing bluchers, and wing tip balmorals are all perfectly fine. Some would argue the long wings are more authentic.

That said, I wear spread collars and brogued wholecuts with my sack suits half the time and see no issue in doing so.


----------



## Duvel

Would it be okay to start a Trad "What Are You Reading Now?" thread, or has it been done to death? I'm thinking not necessarily limited to reading material about trad clothing or style, and not even limited to WASP/Ivy-spawned writers. However, my recent library loans got me thinking about it. After all, we can't spend all our time thinking about clothes and trad girlfriends, can we? 

I picked up two books about as different from one another as are their authors: JUST LOOKING: ESSAYS ON ART by John Updike and STAINED GLASS by William F. Buckley, Jr. I love art and Updike's prose, and I'm a big fan of the literary (and not so literary) espionage novel.


----------



## Reuben

Duvel said:


> Would it be okay to start a Trad "What Are You Reading Now?" thread, or has it been done to death? I'm thinking not necessarily limited to reading material about trad clothing or style, and not even limited to WASP/Ivy-spawned writers. However, my recent library loans got me thinking about it. After all, we can't spend all our time thinking about clothes and trad girlfriends, can we?
> 
> I picked up two books about as different from one another as are their authors: JUST LOOKING: ESSAYS ON ART by John Updike and STAINED GLASS by William F. Buckley, Jr. I love art and Updike's prose, and I'm a big fan of the literary (and not so literary) espionage novel.


Don't know how trad it is (even compared to his other series, like World War) but I just started Harry Turtledove's Videssos cycle, about a roman legion that gets transported to another world by druidic magic. Turtledove makes excellent use of his knowledge of byzantine history and military but I'm not sure any alternative byzantine-esque history will ever surpass Guy Gaverial Kay's Sarantine Mosaic duology.


----------



## WillBarrett

Finishing up Robert Conquest's Reflections on a Ravaged Century and going to finish Crime and Punishment - come hell or highwater - by the start of Advent.

Next up in nonfiction - Alistair Cooke?


----------



## Duvel

So do we start a reading thread?


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

non-literature related 

can I wear my pink and/or mint green OCBD's in the fall/winter? 

Part of me feels like it's a bit weird as they're basically pastel colors seemingly more appropriate for spring/summer, but then I think about how the standard blue OCBD is a fairly pastel shade itself and worn 365 so...


----------



## Duvel

I don't know if you can or not but I sure can.  I tend to tone it down with a sweater or other outer layer, though. I remember seeing a photo of Miles Davis circa late 1950s in a green OCBD with a brown shawl collar cardigan. If it worked for Miles... .


----------



## Topsider

ThatDudeOrion said:


> can I wear my pink and/or mint green OCBD's in the fall/winter?


You can wear pink year-round. The mint green would work best in the spring/summer, but if you wore it underneath a sweater or something, it would probably be fine.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Would it be okay to start a Trad "What Are You Reading Now?" thread, or has it been done to death? I'm thinking not necessarily limited to reading material about trad clothing or style, and not even limited to WASP/Ivy-spawned writers. However, my recent library loans got me thinking about it. After all, we can't spend all our time thinking about clothes and trad girlfriends, can we?
> 
> I picked up two books about as different from one another as are their authors: JUST LOOKING: ESSAYS ON ART by John Updike and STAINED GLASS by William F. Buckley, Jr. I love art and Updike's prose, and I'm a big fan of the literary (and not so literary) espionage novel.


Is "Stained Glass" one of the Blackford Oakes novels? I read several of those twenty or so years ago. Good, not great was my impression - Buckley did a reasonably respectable job in fiction, but not up to his non-fiction standard. I'd contribute to a WAYRN thread and agree it doesn't have to be about clothes, but maybe should have a Trad bent meaning either books from the period, books about the period, or some aspect of the book that ties / connects / reflect on the period.

I participate on Fedora Lounge - which is a forum about the Golden Era in America - and its WAYRN thread does just that: it has no hard rules, but most people try to tie their posts to the forum's overall theme where possible. This is easier than it seems as many contemporary books can be tied into the period, just as I suspect, many contemporary books would, at minimum, touch on some of the themes we discuss here.


----------



## JakeBworth

So I am looking on the BB site for an oxford button down dress shirt. I know Oxford is referring to the material of the shirt. But I couldn't find a shirt labeled "Oxford" so what constitutes a Brooks Brothers Oxford?

Is Supima cotton "the" Oxford? Could someone explain the materials Brooks Brothers uses and what there differences are?


----------



## Duvel

I picked it up out of curiosity, because I love a good espionage novel and I'd read decent reviews. We'll see how it goes. I hope to start it this weekend.



Fading Fast said:


> Is "Stained Glass" one of the Blackford Oakes novels? I read several of those twenty or so years ago. Good, not great was my impression - Buckley did a reasonably respectable job in fiction, but not up to his non-fiction standard. I'd contribute to a WAYRN thread and agree it doesn't have to be about clothes, but maybe should have a Trad bent meaning either books from the period, books about the period, or some aspect of the book that ties / connects / reflect on the period.
> 
> I participate on Fedora Lounge - which is a forum about the Golden Era in America - and its WAYRN thread does just that: it has no hard rules, but most people try to tie their posts to the forum's overall theme where possible. This is easier than it seems as many contemporary books can be tied into the period, just as I suspect, many contemporary books would, at minimum, touch on some of the themes we discuss here.


----------



## Duvel

These, or their non-iron (shudder) counterparts: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Regu...dwvar_E482_Color=BLUE&contentpos=47&cgid=0203



JakeBworth said:


> So I am looking on the BB site for an oxford button down dress shirt. I know Oxford is referring to the material of the shirt. But I couldn't find a shirt labeled "Oxford" so what constitutes a Brooks Brothers Oxford?
> 
> Is Supima cotton "the" Oxford? Could someone explain the materials Brooks Brothers uses and what there differences are?


----------



## JakeBworth

Okay, so it is the Supima cotton. That is what I thought. Thank you. Do the non-treated shirts really feel that much better?


----------



## GRH

*Jacket Length Rules-of-Thumb (-Arm, -Leg,-Seat, etc.)*

Apologies from a newcomer if this has been discussed elsewhere: Decades before today's monkey-jacket madness set in, I was taught (Rule #1) that a jacket should be just short enough for its hem to be cupped by one's hand with the arm extended straight downward. Only lately have I become aware that, my arms being notably long for a person of my height, a jacket chosen according to the above rule ends up exceeding 50% of my total shoulder-to-floor altitude (and emphasizing, to my eye, my stumpy legs). This violates what we'll call Rule #2. Now, understanding that we're talking art and taste, not science, my question is: To what extent can I get away with the hand-length measurement in a lovely professorial tweed that otherwise fits like the proverbial? Or -- which rule takes precedence?
Thanks for your attention.


----------



## Spin Evans

I personally prefer the "equidistant from the collar and the floor" rule (is that from Boyer? I can't remember), though the "cover your bum" length is usually adequate. My arms are also on the longer side, and having a jacket that long can make me look like I'm wearing a refrigerator.


----------



## Reuben

Cover your bum, here. For me cupping the hem ranges from just long enough to too long.


----------



## GRH

Spin & Reuben: Thanks for the reality check, gentleman. Nothing but 28" collar-to-hem henceforth.


----------



## thegovteach

About what year did Corbin stop making clothes in the US?


----------



## JakeBworth

Where can I have an overcoat pressed?


----------



## Duvel

What's a reasonable price for a vintage LL Bean Norwegian sweater these days? I'm seeing a few on eBay but none are close to the $30 mark I thought I'd see.


----------



## Duvel

Well, who cares. I had a glass of wine, revisited the counter offer, and pushed the button. I probably paid too much, but that's probably the story of my life, and hey, it's vintage. 

I have a feeling that my choice of an old cuff for an old dog would make Muffy happy.


----------



## Duvel

I asked that a while ago too, and never got an answer. I'm not sure anyone here really knows. They may, indeed, still be making jackets and such.



thegovteach said:


> About what year did Corbin stop making clothes in the US?


----------



## ArtVandalay

Duvel said:


> What's a reasonable price for a vintage LL Bean Norwegian sweater these days? I'm seeing a few on eBay but none are close to the $30 mark I thought I'd see.


Usually anywhere between $35 and $50 on eBay. 30-40 on the Exchange.


----------



## Duvel

Okay, seriously? Three C notes for these: https://www.acontinuouslean.com/2014/10/15/signal-noise/. Almost twice as much as Bills or OConnells. What am I missing?


----------



## sskim3

Recently, Gamma and OF provided pics of their topster. The coats look awesome and it has a very casualness to them. What is the history on them and the appropriateness on when to where them? Also was Pendleton the only maker or are there others? 

They remind me the fall/winter version of an unconstructed linen/cotton jacket.


----------



## L-feld

Duvel said:


> I asked that a while ago too, and never got an answer. I'm not sure anyone here really knows. They may, indeed, still be making jackets and such.


Here's a history of the Corbin brand: https://theivyleaguelook.blogspot.com...orbin-ltd.html

Sounds like David Corbin was a real pill. At any rate, Corbin is currently part of IAG, and everything that bears the Corbin name is currently produced in an IAG factory, primarily the one here in Maryland (which also makes most of the H. Freeman Suits) or the one in Chile, both of which do quality work. You can basically think of the current Corbin as being a slightly lower tier H. Freeman with more casual options.

Long story short, the Corbin of old ceased to exist in 2003, which is when the original factories closed.


----------



## thegovteach

Duvel said:


> I asked that a while ago too, and never got an answer. I'm not sure anyone here really knows. They may, indeed, still be making jackets and such.


Thanks for the information....


----------



## thegovteach

L-feld said:


> Here's a history of the Corbin brand: https://theivyleaguelook.blogspot.com...orbin-ltd.html
> 
> Sounds like David Corbin was a real pill. At any rate, Corbin is currently part of IAG, and everything that bears the Corbin name is currently produced in an IAG factory, primarily the one here in Maryland (which also makes most of the H. Freeman Suits) or the one in Chile, both of which do quality work. You can basically think of the current Corbin as being a slightly lower tier H. Freeman with more casual options.
> 
> Long story short, the Corbin of old ceased to exist in 2003, which is when the original factories closed.


Thank you for the information...


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Okay, seriously? Three C notes for these: https://www.acontinuouslean.com/2014/10/15/signal-noise/. Almost twice as much as Bills or OConnells. What am I missing?


This seems like either (1) a selvedge, unique boutique chino for someone who genuinely and passionately cares about the pant's singular qualities - fabric, break-in regime, subtle details and, maybe, quality (and if so, good for that person, but not my thing) or (2) another stupidly over-priced vanity product sold to people who build their self esteem through exorbitantly priced and "exclusive" purchases.

That said, I love J.Crew's pedestrian broken-in chinos on the de rigueur 30% off sale. I think they are outstanding value, have a great feel and look, and - for me - a near perfect fit. I'll stay with my $50 chinos and let the connoisseurs debate the merits of the Wallace and Barnes ones.


----------



## Duvel

Agree. The regular fit essential chinos are often my go-to chinos. I now get them long and sew a cuff.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Buzz Rickson Chinos - About $190 https://www.buzzricksons.com/usaaf-military-chinos-1942-p-72.html

Authentic 1942 pattern US Army Chinos made to 100% perfection of WWII spec. The dense weave chino drill cloth is crisp and stout just like original wartime unissued stock.


----------



## orange fury

sskim3 said:


> Recently, Gamma and OF provided pics of their topster. The coats look awesome and it has a very casualness to them. What is the history on them and the appropriateness on when to where them? Also was Pendleton the only maker or are there others?
> 
> They remind me the fall/winter version of an unconstructed linen/cotton jacket.


Can't help you with the history (though I'm very interested in that too), but my primary use will be at home- as much as I like it, I feel like it's perfect use will be throwing it on over an OCBD when I get home from work and curling up in my recliner with a book and a drink on a cold evening. Or, it's something I would throw on on a cold and dreary Saturday morning, when I go have my coffee on my patio. It reminds me of a rustic housecoat, or a smoking jacket for an outdoorsman (if any of that makes any sense). In any case, I like it- even in the midst of some of my more outlandish clothing (the patch madras jacket comes to mind), it stands out as a unique item.



Fading Fast said:


> That said, I love J.Crew's pedestrian broken-in chinos on the de rigueur 30% off sale. I think they are outstanding value, have a great feel and look, and - for me - a near perfect fit. I'll stay with my $50 chinos and let the connoisseurs debate the merits of the Wallace and Barnes ones.


Though I don't wear nearly as much Ralph Lauren stuff as I used to, at $40 apiece, their chinos have been a mainstay for me- they've held up really well, fit well, and are comfortable. After seeing several reviews here though, I do want to try Lands End's chinos: 30%-40% off seems like a pretty good deal.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

sskim3 said:


> Recently, Gamma and OF provided pics of their topster. The coats look awesome and it has a very casualness to them. What is the history on them and the appropriateness on when to where them? Also was Pendleton the only maker or are there others?
> 
> They remind me the fall/winter version of an unconstructed linen/cotton jacket.


1950-60's is when they got popular on college campuses. They are very casual and have sort of California Beach Boys association because of all their Pendleton gear. I have never seen other brands, but I am sure there are.


----------



## orange fury

Those are awesome OCBD, thank you for posting them.


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> Can't help you with the history (though I'm very interested in that too), but my primary use will be at home- as much as I like it, I feel like it's perfect use will be throwing it on over an OCBD when I get home from work and curling up in my recliner with a book and a drink on a cold evening. Or, it's something I would throw on on a cold and dreary Saturday morning, when I go have my coffee on my patio. It reminds me of a rustic housecoat, or a smoking jacket for an outdoorsman (if any of that makes any sense). In any case, I like it- even in the midst of some of my more outlandish clothing (the patch madras jacket comes to mind), it stands out as a unique item.
> 
> Though I don't wear nearly as much Ralph Lauren stuff as I used to, at $40 apiece, their chinos have been a mainstay for me- they've held up really well, fit well, and are comfortable. After seeing several reviews here though, I do want to try Lands End's chinos: 30%-40% off seems like a pretty good deal.


I think those are perfect ways to wear the Pendleton Topsters and how I wear mine.

I also really like the Lands' End khakis and feel they're a bit more robust than RLP offerings. I think I like the LE tailored fit khakis better than the traditional fit. I won a pair of tailored fit in yellow recently on eBay. Should be good in fall/spring/summer. It will be interesting to see the shade of yellow in person when they arrive.


----------



## sskim3

orange fury said:


> Those are awesome OCBD, thank you for posting them.


Awesome thanks for the info guys. So help a brother out:

Seller calls it a barn coat but can i assume it is a topster?


----------



## GenuineWeejun

What is the best place to buy custom suits online? Are there sites offering undarted jackets? Or madras/GTH-patterns?


----------



## orange fury

sskim3 said:


> Awesome thanks for the info guys. So help a brother out:
> 
> Seller calls it a barn coat but can i assume it is a topster?


That definitely looks like one


----------



## orange fury

Asked in another thread, but I'll ask here. Bean Boot sizing- the pic on the left is a 10, the right is a 9, the edge of tape closest to the edge of the shoe is where my toe ends. Both are worn with Woolrich heavy socks and both are comfortable, but the 9 is more snug and the 10 has more heel slippage. Which looks like it fits better?:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...8-4E84-AFC7-ED51ACCDDDD7_zpstytrmmib.jpg.html


----------



## Duvel

On the right, if you won't use them in snow. If you expect to be out for hours trudging in snow drifts, the left, with another layer or socks or boot liner.


----------



## Z.J.P

GenuineWeejun said:


> What is the best place to buy custom suits online? Are there sites offering undarted jackets? Or madras/GTH-patterns?


Why custom? Do you have fit issues? Or are you seeking certain features?


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> On the right, if you won't use them in snow. If you expect to be out for hours trudging in snow drifts, the left, with another layer or socks or boot liner.


Nah, I've purchased them with the intended use to be cold weather (I'm going to pick up some mocs for 3-season wear), but I won't be dealing with snow consistently. As is with the one pair of socks, I guess the 9's then?


----------



## Duvel

Honestly, either fit looks good to me, OF. I think now it is more a matter of what feels most comfortable. If the bigger boot does not slip with the socks you intend to wear, I'd go with those.


----------



## Z.J.P

Duvel said:


> Honestly, either fit looks good to me, OF. I think now it is more a matter of what feels most comfortable. If the bigger boot does not slip with the socks you intend to wear, I'd go with those.


Seconded.


----------



## GenuineWeejun

Z.J.P said:


> Why custom? Do you have fit issues? Or are you seeking certain features?


I am seeking usual trad features, but i am especially seeking a wide selection of cotton fabrics. I also need very long pants, as i am of the lanky type. I usually am a 33x35, and seek extra length for cuffs. Few makers seem to offer such lengths, even your regular LE chino can't be cuffed if you require more than a 34 length.

And it goes without saying that as a humanities student i cannot, and will never be able to afford bespoke.


----------



## Z.J.P

GenuineWeejun said:


> I am seeking usual trad features, but i am especially seeking a wide selection of cotton fabrics. I also need very long pants, as i am of the lanky type. I usually am a 33x35, and seek extra length for cuffs. Few makers seem to offer such lengths, even your regular LE chino can't be cuffed if you require more than a 34 length.
> 
> And it goes without saying that as a humanities student i cannot, and will never be able to afford bespoke.


Online MTM is an iffy proposition. Kent Wang has good feedback, however, not sure he can do something without darts.

My suggestion is Read Wall: https://www.readwall.com/collections/suits-sport-coats

The Cambridge model. Not MTM, but some flexibility. Lots of fabrics, more if you contact them. I'm sure the long legs are no problem.


----------



## GenuineWeejun

Z.J.P said:


> Online MTM is an iffy proposition. Kent Wang has good feedback, however, not sure he can do something without darts.
> 
> My suggestion is Read Wall: https://www.readwall.com/collections/suits-sport-coats
> 
> The Cambridge model. Not MTM, but some flexibility. Lots of fabrics, more if you contact them. I'm sure the long legs are no problem.


Thanks a lot!


----------



## Reuben

Y'all think a 44"x78" piece of fabrics is enough for a pair of pants? ~36-30, so nothing abnormally large, just potentially vivid enough to put Lilly Pulitzer herself to shame . . .


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

No expert, but I'd think you'd need closer to 3 yards of 44" wide fabric. Let's see if any other posters have an idea. Failing that, I'd call whomever you plan to get to make the pants and ask them.


Reuben said:


> Y'all think a 44"x78" piece of fabrics is enough for a pair of pants? ~36-30, so nothing abnormally large, just potentially vivid enough to put Lilly Pulitzer herself to shame . . .


----------



## Reuben

'Nother quickie: if Brook's OCBD are supposed to shrink a half-inch to an inch in the neck, how could I go about making that happen? It'd make quite a few things fit again.


----------



## MythReindeer

Reuben said:


> 'Nother quickie: if Brook's OCBD are supposed to shrink a half-inch to an inch in the neck, how could I go about making that happen? It'd make quite a few things fit again.


I can't see how it would be something other than "wash in warm water." There's probably a limit to what you can do in that vein, especially on older shirts.


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

MythReindeer said:


> I can't see how it would be something other than "wash in warm water." There's probably a limit to what you can do in that vein, especially on older shirts.


Wash in hot water, dry on high heat, and hope for the best. May not see much shrinkage in an older garment though.


----------



## Fading Fast

ThatDudeOrion said:


> Wash in hot water, dry on high heat, and hope for the best. May not see much shrinkage in an older garment though.


When I want to shrink something - I do exactly as you advise and sometimes it works perfectly and sometimes "there ain't no shrinking in that garment." It a gamble, but give it a shot.


----------



## orange fury

Is anyone familiar with Corbin's "Prime Poplin"? I found a pair of vintage NWT Murray's reds that have a "Corbin Prime Poplin" tag in them. I went ahead and bought them because they were unfinished bottoms and very close to my waist size for an absolute steal (after some back and forth offers with the seller), but I noticed they're 65 poly/33 cotton (per the seller, I didn't see a pic of a content tag). They are made in the US though. I guess what I'm really wondering is how they hold up/wear/etc, it's described everywhere I've seen it as a lightweight summer pant, but there's no reviews.


----------



## gamma68

Reuben said:


> 'Nother quickie: if Brook's OCBD are supposed to shrink a half-inch to an inch in the neck, how could I go about making that happen? It'd make quite a few things fit again.


As you probably know, the BB non-iron shirts won't shrink at all. For a BB must-iron, I've found that they shrink in normal washing. For me, that's washing in cold water and air drying. Mine shrink in just one or two washings. YMMV


----------



## orange fury

gamma68 said:


> As you probably know, the BB non-iron shirts won't shrink at all. For a BB must-iron, I've found that they shrink in normal washing. For me, that's washing in cold water and air drying. Mine shrink in just one or two washings. YMMV


How much do they shrink in normal washing? I bought my normal size because I wash cold/hang dry, thinking that shrinkage only happened with washing hot/using a dryer. They fit perfectly out of the box, but I washed them last night and now I'm worried...


----------



## JakeBworth

What happened to the Unofficial Trad Thrift Exchange? I can't seem to find it.


----------



## orange fury

JakeBworth said:


> What happened to the Unofficial Trad Thrift Exchange? I can't seem to find it.


https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...7921-AAAC-Informal-Trad-Thrift-Store-Exchange


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> How much do they shrink in normal washing? I bought my normal size because I wash cold/hang dry, thinking that shrinkage only happened with washing hot/using a dryer. They fit perfectly out of the box, but I washed them last night and now I'm worried...


I wear 16-33 in the BB non-iron. To allow for shrinkage, I sized up to 16.5-34 for the BB must-iron.


----------



## ytc

orange fury said:


> How much do they shrink in normal washing? I bought my normal size because I wash cold/hang dry, thinking that shrinkage only happened with washing hot/using a dryer. They fit perfectly out of the box, but I washed them last night and now I'm worried...


I just washed a new one twice to get all the sizing out and I'd estimate mine shrank slightly less than a half inch in the neck, perhaps a quarter inch in sleeve length. The body of the shirt is also perceptibly tighter, but not terribly so; it's swingable. I wear 16.5x35 fyi.


----------



## Himself

orange fury said:


> Is anyone familiar with Corbin's "Prime Poplin"? I found a pair of vintage NWT Murray's reds that have a "Corbin Prime Poplin" tag in them. I went ahead and bought them because they were unfinished bottoms and very close to my waist size for an absolute steal (after some back and forth offers with the seller), but I noticed they're 65 poly/33 cotton (per the seller, I didn't see a pic of a content tag). They are made in the US though. I guess what I'm really wondering is how they hold up/wear/etc, it's described everywhere I've seen it as a lightweight summer pant, but there's no reviews.


That cotton/poly blend was pretty much standard in the 80s. We all wore those poplins in all colors, and they looked good and wore well -- probably better than all cotton ones.

J. Press still sells them, maybe O'Connell's too. Otherwise I haven't seen them around in a long time.

Corbin has had its ups and downs, but "vintage" are probably good. I'd go for it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Himself said:


> *That cotton/poly blend was pretty much standard in the 80s. We all wore those poplins in all colors*, and they looked good and wore well -- probably better than all cotton ones.
> 
> J. Press still sells them, maybe O'Connell's too. Otherwise I haven't seen them around in a long time.
> 
> Corbin has had its ups and downs, but "vintage" are probably good. I'd go for it.


As bolded above, when I started buying clothes for work in the '80s, "Himself" is correct, the blends were what BB carried and I owned at one time or another, the tan, stone, olive, grey and navy poplin suit. The looked good and held up well.

I'd rather buy an all-cotton one today, but I can't say the blends were bad. But also, I didn't know enough about clothes to think about things like sheen, drape, breathability, etc., then, so they might not have been great and I wouldn't have known it. All I knew was that before business casual took hold, these poplin suits seemed lighter and less formal and were a pleasure to wear to work in the summer.


----------



## JakeBworth

How is a Brooks Brothers Flat-Iron shop different than a regular store?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

JakeBworth said:


> How is a Brooks Brothers Flat-Iron shop different than a regular store?


It's hipper. They don't sell any Golden Fleece, and very few 1818 suits (if any). Lots of Red Fleece. The one near the Flatiron building is kinda cool.


----------



## Duvel

Hipper, meaning hipsterer.



Youthful Repp-robate said:


> It's hipper. They don't sell any Golden Fleece, and very few 1818 suits (if any). Lots of Red Fleece. The one near the Flatiron building is kinda cool.


----------



## WillBarrett

Gents: Got a choir performance I'm hitting up tomorrow night. Wearing a sweet plaid 3/2 sack jacket but unsure of the tie pattern. Stripes? Emblematic? Tartan?


----------



## ThePopinjay

WillBarrett said:


> Gents: Got a choir performance I'm hitting up tomorrow night. Wearing a sweet plaid 3/2 sack jacket but unsure of the tie pattern. Stripes? Emblematic? Tartan?


Pics would make this easier. Definitely not tartan if the jacket is plaid. I usually wear emblematics, but a solid knit could work well too. Depending on the scale of the plaid a simple bar stripe or something could work.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Duvel said:


> Hipper, meaning hipsterer.


One and the same!


----------



## Fading Fast

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> It's hipper. They don't sell any Golden Fleece, and very few 1818 suits (if any). Lots of Red Fleece. The one near the Flatiron building is kinda cool.


Are there many of these stores - have they rolled them out around the country?


----------



## Duvel

More and more, I'm trying to quantify my clothing desires and stay focused and on budget. With all my lusts and desires, I tell you, it is not easy. How do you plan your purchases (if you do)? I'm thinking about a month-by-month list, checking off an item or two each month. This means no more impulse purchases, and I've long ago given up thrifting as my means to the end. Any suggestions? Or offers of moral support? Thanks.


----------



## hardline_42

Duvel said:


> More and more, I'm trying to quantify my clothing desires and stay focused and on budget. With all my lusts and desires, I tell you, it is not easy. How do you plan your purchases (if you do)? I'm thinking about a month-by-month list, checking off an item or two each month. This means no more impulse purchases, and I've long ago given up thrifting as my means to the end. Any suggestions? Or offers of moral support? Thanks.


I have lists of every category of item (khakis, cords, sweaters, ocbds, suits, etc.) with the individual item, the source and the price listed. I then have a "to buy" list where I list items from each category in my preferred order of acquisition for a particular season (eg. F/W to-buy list). I rank the items based on need and versatility (ie. I'll buy a navy or charcoal Shetland before a Cowichan). If I come across what I think is a smoking deal on a non-essential item, I'll compare it to my list and see how far up or down it is and adjust accordingly.


----------



## L-feld

Duvel said:


> Hipper, meaning hipsterer.


:deadhorse-a:


----------



## Duvel

I like that. Thank you.



hardline_42 said:


> I have lists of every category of item (khakis, cords, sweaters, ocbds, suits, etc.) with the individual item, the source and the price listed. I then have a "to buy" list where I list items from each category in my preferred order of acquisition for a particular season (eg. F/W to-buy list). I rank the items based on need and versatility (ie. I'll buy a navy or charcoal Shetland before a Cowichan). If I come across what I think is a smoking deal on a non-essential item, I'll compare it to my list and see how far up or down it is and adjust accordingly.


----------



## Duvel

LE 31% sale today. Anybody else picking anything up? I thought it might be a good time to pick up some trousers, such as the flannel and the twill that we've seen Billax modeling of late.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Fading Fast said:


> Are there many of these stores - have they rolled them out around the country?


I have no idea -- I've only been to the namesake store. I _think_ there's a flatiron section at the Princeton store, but I'm not certain.


----------



## hardline_42

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I have no idea -- I've only been to the namesake store. I _think_ there's a flatiron section at the Princeton store, but I'm not certain.


I've been to the Princeton store a handful of times and I think there is a Flatiron section as well, since the displays there are definitely more fashion-forward than my local standard Brooks location.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> LE 31% sale today. Anybody else picking anything up? I thought it might be a good time to pick up some trousers, such as the flannel and the twill that we've seen Billax modeling of late.


CONVINCE ME NOT TO GET THE BLACKWATCH TROUSERS! CONVINCE ME RIGHT NOW!


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> LE 31% sale today. Anybody else picking anything up? I thought it might be a good time to pick up some trousers, such as the flannel and the twill that we've seen Billax modeling of late.


You guys are such a bad influence, LOL.

Just ordered three shirts and three pairs of pants. Saved $73 off retail.

I should add that LE has 18 web pages full of sale items, and the 31% off also applies to sale items.


----------



## Duvel

gamma, I'm trying to keep the blinders on. Just picked up two pairs of trousers: light grey wool flannels and some stone chinos (traditional fit and cuffed, both). Not bad for around 100 clams total. I have been in dire need of trousers. This will help.


----------



## pitchfork

Good afternoon gentlemen,

New to this forum and have a quick question. I am looking to buy a Barbour Beaufort coat and am wondering how to get the best deal (outside of eBay, etc.). Are there any consistent sales I should wait for or certain retailers I may have missed? The best I have found is a 10% off sale at best in the country that has since expired.


----------



## hardline_42

Nrad said:


> Good afternoon gentlemen,
> 
> New to this forum and have a quick question. I am looking to buy a Barbour Beaufort coat and am wondering how to get the best deal (outside of eBay, etc.). Are there any consistent sales I should wait for or certain retailers I may have missed? The best I have found is a 10% off sale at best in the country that has since expired.


I've never seen Barbour's classic waxed line on sale. What I've done in the past is to buy through Orvis. They frequently send $25 off coupons to be used in the store. You also get a discount for signing up for their email list (10%, IIRC). You can also buy Orvis gift cards at a discount from websites like Plastic Jungle. It's a bit of leg work, but I was able to save a substantial sum when I purchased a Bedale for my wife a couple seasons ago.

Best in the Country used to be a good deal, but now their free shipping is only good in the UK. I think the total actually ends up being more than buying locally at full retail.

By the way, welcome to the forum. PS your user name is spelled wrong. "Trad" starts with a "T"


----------



## pitchfork

Perfect, thanks


----------



## gamma68

Nrad said:


> Good afternoon gentlemen,
> 
> New to this forum and have a quick question. I am looking to buy a Barbour Beaufort coat and am wondering how to get the best deal (outside of eBay, etc.). Are there any consistent sales I should wait for or certain retailers I may have missed? The best I have found is a 10% off sale at best in the country that has since expired.


Here's how I got my Barbour Bedale on the cheap: I used my Visa points and ordered it through Amazon.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Nordstrom carries the Beaufort. Maybe you can watch for a sale through them.


----------



## mhj

I picked up a pair of khakis from the cleaners and they were pressed on the seams flattening out the crease. I don't know where the got the idea that I would want them like this and plan to bring them back in to be fixed. I'm wondering though, is that any legitimate opinion that this should ever be done? I have never seen this in my life.


----------



## MythReindeer

Braided leather belts: good idea or not? Do they look good and hold up well? I haven't owned one in a long time, but I am sometimes frustrated when my ideal size is exactly between notches on a standard belt. I suppose I could just get more standard belts.


----------



## Duvel

Did you ask for a crease? I'm guessing that the mainstream, middle-America default for a casual chino is non-creased. Unless you're dealing with a cleaners that's used to a more traditional, less contemporary clientele, I would guess that you might have to specify a crease at most cleaners these days.



mhj said:


> I picked up a pair of khakis from the cleaners and they were pressed on the seams flattening out the crease. I don't know where the got the idea that I would want them like this and plan to bring them back in to be fixed. I'm wondering though, is that any legitimate opinion that this should ever be done? I have never seen this in my life.


----------



## Billax

mhj said:


> I picked up a pair of khakis from the cleaners and they were pressed on the seams flattening out the crease. I don't know where the got the idea that I would want them like this and plan to bring them back in to be fixed. I'm wondering though, is that any legitimate opinion that this should ever be done? I have never seen this in my life.


Never seen it before, mhj. See it on laundered and pressed Levi's sometimes, but never on men's khakis.


----------



## mhj

I've brought chinos to this cleaner a million times and they always come back normally pressed. I didn't even know it was an option to have them done uncreased. That's the reason I have them professionally cleaned. I take them in maybe every 5 cleanings and do them myself in between.

As Billax mentions above maybe it works for Levi's.



Duvel said:


> Did you ask for a crease? I'm guessing that the mainstream, middle-America default for a casual chino is non-creased. Unless you're dealing with a cleaners that's used to a more traditional, less contemporary clientele, I would guess that you might have to specify a crease at most cleaners these days.


----------



## Jovan

Creased... on the seams? Now that's just plain weird. Though the default, middle-America, business casual, office drone default for chinos is creased front and back in my experience. I don't think most cleaners will press any trouser without creases unless you explicitly tell them to.


----------



## orange fury

Thoughts on Pendleton Board Shirts? I found some tonight for a pretty good price, I'm just not entirely sure what I would wear them with. For those that have them, how do you wear them and how useful do you find them?


----------



## Duvel

Hmm. Odd, then, I guess. Not true to my experience, but odd, nonetheless. Solution is simple: Take them back and have them redone, and inquire how this happened. In any case, it would be interesting to learn their reason for doing this.



mhj said:


> I've brought chinos to this cleaner a million times and they always come back normally pressed. I didn't even know it was an option to have them done uncreased. That's the reason I have them professionally cleaned. I take them in maybe every 5 cleanings and do them myself in between.
> 
> As Billax mentions above maybe it works for Levi's.


----------



## hardline_42

MythReindeer said:


> Braided leather belts: good idea or not? Do they look good and hold up well? I haven't owned one in a long time, but I am sometimes frustrated when my ideal size is exactly between notches on a standard belt. I suppose I could just get more standard belts.


I like them for the exact reason you state. I bought one while I was losing weight to avoid frustration. I still wear it as a casual belt. Just make sure to buy a quality one since the strands tend to peel and break on cheaper ones.


----------



## mhj

I'll post a follow up after I take them back. I'll probably wait until I have a load of shirts to take in, I don't want to make a special trip.



Duvel said:


> Hmm. Odd, then, I guess. Not true to my experience, but odd, nonetheless. Solution is simple: Take them back and have them redone, and inquire how this happened. In any case, it would be interesting to learn their reason for doing this.


----------



## Duvel

I'm truly interested. For what it's worth, which is probably not a lot, this is the reason I take on the pressing chore myself for 90 percent of my clothes. About the only things that go to the cleaners are my blazers, sport coats, and suits, and even then only about once a year. I like having control of this. I won't even let Mrs D handle my ironing.



mhj said:


> I'll post a follow up after I take them back. I'll probably wait until I have a load of shirts to take in, I don't want to make a special trip.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> I'm truly interested. For what it's worth, which is probably not a lot, this is the reason I take on the pressing chore myself for 90 percent of my clothes. About the only things that go to the cleaners are my blazers, sport coats, and suits, and even then only about once a year. I like having control of this. I won't even let Mrs D handle my ironing.


+1 all of this, Im the same way. Mrs. OF and I switch off on most chores, but laundry/ironing is always my responsibility.

i find ironing slightly cathartic though, so maybe I'm just weird.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Ironing and shining shoes are a time honored ritual. Furthermore, American society seems to have lost the sense of occasion that should, IMHO, accompany the day to day routine as well as the milestones of life. I hereby relinquish my soap box and thus endeth my sermon to the choir.


----------



## orange fury

Brigadier Cheape said:


> Ironing and shining shoes are a time honored ritual. Furthermore, American society seems to have lost the sense of occasion that should, IMHO, accompany the day to day routine as well as the milestones of life. I hereby relinquish my soap box and thus endeth my sermon to the choir.


In fairness, I do my ironing the night before- I have to wake up early enough as it is without thinking about ironing


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

You're forgiven


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> i find ironing slightly cathartic though, so maybe I'm just weird.


I don't iron (never learned), but I do laundry and steam out wrinkles all the time. I find it cathartic as well. I really enjoy the feeling of clean clothes all folded or on hangers ready to be put in drawers or closets. My work, like many people's today, is about long-term goals where the success is measured against relative benchmarks and, in truth, it is all squishy and never ending.

But laundry is real. The clothes are dirty, wrinkled, disheveled - I spot stains, pre-treat this or that, wash, dry, fold and then have a pile of fresh, clean, nice smelling clothes - very rewarding. No long-term this, no relative success against that, no let's keep seeing how it does, blah, blah, blah. It's effort in, result out. As you said, very cathartic.


----------



## mhj

I like doing my own ironing too but I can't do it as well as the pro's. I have this thing about sharp creases.


----------



## Duvel

I taught almost everyone in my OTS squadron flight how to iron his or her uniform. I couldn't believe how many people didn't know how to iron a shirt or put a crease in their pants.


----------



## orange fury

orange fury said:


> Thoughts on Pendleton Board Shirts? I found some tonight for a pretty good price, I'm just not entirely sure what I would wear them with. For those that have them, how do you wear them and how useful do you find them?


Bumping this


----------



## Peak and Pine

What is a board shirt? As in surfing? Are they different from just Pedleton shirts?


----------



## hardline_42

orange fury said:


> Bumping this





Peak and Pine said:


> What is a board shirt? As in surfing? Are they different from just Pedleton shirts?


The Pendleton Board Shirt is a wool shirt with a point collar, straight hem, dual flap chest pockets, horizontal button holes and a loop instead of a buttonhole at the collar:










I wear mine over an OCBD as a light jacket. A Google image search seems to reveal some sort of connection with Mexican gangster-types though.


----------



## orange fury

hardline_42 said:


> The Pendleton Board Shirt is a wool shirt with a point collar, straight hem, dual flap chest pockets, horizontal button holes and a loop instead of a buttonhole at the collar:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wear mine over an OCBD as a light jacket. *A Google image search seems to reveal some sort of connection with Mexican gangster-types though.*


Thats the look I'm trying to avoid, I saw that last night when I was carrying a Pendleton around the store and searching ways to wear it. Coincidentally, the same one in your picture


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> I really enjoy the feeling of clean clothes all folded or on hangers ready to be put in drawers or closets. My work, like many people's today, is about long-term goals where the success is measured against relative benchmarks and, in truth, it is all squishy and never ending.
> 
> But laundry is real. The clothes are dirty, wrinkled, disheveled - I spot stains, pre-treat this or that, wash, dry, fold and then have a pile of fresh, clean, nice smelling clothes - very rewarding. No long-term this, no relative success against that, no let's keep seeing how it does, blah, blah, blah. It's effort in, result out. As you said, very cathartic.


I like that post a lot


----------



## hardline_42

orange fury said:


> Thats the look I'm trying to avoid, I saw that last night when I was carrying a Pendleton around the store and searching ways to wear it. Coincidentally, the same one in your picture


Member gamma68 posted a look on WAYWT a while back that shows how it can be worn. It's not unlike a Topster, just more casual:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...ad-What-are-you-Wearing&p=1450242#post1450242

Unless you're wearing the board shirt with oversized chino shorts, OTC tube socks, black Chucks and wrap-around sunglasses, I think you'll be fine.


----------



## Peak and Pine

hardline_42 said:


> The Pendleton Board Shirt is a wool shirt with a point collar, straight hem, dual flap chest pockets, horizontal button holes and a loop instead of a buttonhole at the collar


Okay. Thanks. We call that a camp shirt up here. I have a number of those. However, we call any shirt with a straight hem a camp shirt. Am unfamiliar with the Mex gangster thing. It shouldn't deter you anymore than if Mescans were wearing sack coats. Fat chance on that tho. Fury, you can wear one almost any way you want, ideally not tucked in and with no belt. Khakis would seem to work, even jeans.

Now to be pickyune, I don't think you want to wear one where the pants appear to have more heft than the shirt, i. e., corduroys, blanket wools, etc. and that's because the shirt hangs over the pants and the shirts are of a fairly light wool and that which overhangs seems more cohesive if it's heavier than that over which it protrudes. Purely visual and, again, perhaps pickyune, but it's a principle that works in architecture and somewhat in nature.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

hardline_42 said:


> The Pendleton Board Shirt is a wool shirt with a point collar, straight hem, dual flap chest pockets, horizontal button holes and a loop instead of a buttonhole at the collar:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wear mine over an OCBD as a light jacket. A Google image search seems to reveal some sort of connection with Mexican gangster-types though.


Technically, it doesn't have to have the loop to be a board shirt.

There are other styles of Pendletons other than the Board shirt. Many of them look similar. You just have to look at the details to tell the difference.

The *Board Shirt *, has a straight bottom, sport collar and two flap pockets. This shirt works hard as a shirt or a casual jacket (Umatilla wool).

The *Trail Shirt * has straight collar and elbow patches, with one button-through pocket (Umatilla wool).

The * Fireside Shirt * has a button down collar and one plain pocket (Umatilla wool).

The *Lodge Shirt * has a straight collar and one pocket (Umatilla wool).

The *Field Shirt * was returned to the line in 2009, and customers praise the two button-through flap pockets (Umatilla wool).

The *Sir Pendleton Shirt* is made of the finest 100% worsted wool, making it lighter weight than many fine cotton shirts for year-round wearability. It has a button down collar and one matched pocket (worsted wool).

The *Snap-Front Western Canyon Shirt* has a snap front and cuffs with front and back peaked yokes (Umatilla wool). It's worn by every man, not only those who rope and ride (Umatilla wool).


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Fading Fast said:


> in truth, it is all squishy and never ending.


Mine too. Sometimes I complete a task that I am supposed to send to a junior employee just to remember what it is like to have an end.


----------



## Fading Fast

oxford cloth button down said:


> Mine too. Sometimes I complete a task that I am supposed to send to a junior employee just to remember what it is like to have an end.


:icon_cheers: Modern business is crazy - it mainly works - but it is crazy.


----------



## 44Blue

Peak and Pine said:


> Am unfamiliar with the Mex gangster thing. It shouldn't deter you anymore than if Mescans were wearing sack coats. Fat chance on that tho.


Not many "Mescans" down east , I guess. Orale, carnal.


----------



## orange fury

Quick one- I'm having lunch at a country club today. I'm wearing creased chinos, navy blazer, blue OCBD, brown bit loafers, and a burgundy/navy repp tie. All of the metals are gold (rings/watch/blazer buttons/belt/bits). I have a silver tie bar I was thinking about wearing to dress up the rig a tiny bit, and normally I wouldn't ask about mixing metals, but I was wondering if it would stick out like a sore thumb because literally every other metal item is gold.

also, I'm aware that gray wool trousers or a suit would've been ideal for this event, but those are two holes I haven't filled in my wardrobe since my weight loss, so I'm making do with what I have.


----------



## hardline_42

orange fury said:


> Quick one- I'm having lunch at a country club today. I'm wearing creased chinos, navy blazer, blue OCBD, brown bit loafers, and a burgundy/navy repp tie. All of the metals are gold (rings/watch/blazer buttons/belt/bits). I have a silver tie bar I was thinking about wearing to dress up the rig a tiny bit, and normally I wouldn't ask about mixing metals, but I was wondering if it would stick out like a sore thumb because literally every other metal item is gold.
> 
> also, I'm aware that gray wool trousers or a suit would've been ideal for this event, but those are two holes I haven't filled in my wardrobe since my weight loss, so I'm making do with what I have.


For me, I think the tie bar hovers too closely to the blazer buttons and belt buckle for comfort. Do you need the tie bar for its function? Because I wouldn't add it (in any metal) to an already "blingy" outfit, otherwise.


----------



## FLMike

My personal opinion is that you're overthinking the metals. I don't like tie bars myself (or any jewelry save my watch and wedding ring), but if you like wearing them, I wouldn't worry about matching it to your buttons, bits, etc. I will admit to usually matching my belt buckle to my bits (I have both silver and gold bit Guccis), but not always.

So, you don't own any dress pants at all? Not even some tan gabs? As much as you like to "dress up", I'm surprised by that. It's funny how people are so different....if I go to a business lunch at my (or someone else's) country club, I have no problem wearing a blazer or SC without a tie, but I would feel a little funny wearing chinos instead of dress trousers. Different strokes.....


----------



## Duvel

Personally, I think the tie bar, whether silver or gold, is that one touch that, when all is said and done and you look at yourself in the mirror, you should subtract. I think it overdoes things a bit, and you'll seem like you're dressing to impress rather than just being naturally impressive.


----------



## FLMike

^Very well put, Duvel.


----------



## Reuben

Duvel said:


> Personally, I think the tie bar, whether silver or gold, is that one touch that, when all is said and done and you look at yourself in the mirror, you should subtract. I think it overdoes things a bit, and you'll seem like you're dressing to impress rather than just being naturally impressive.


Isn't there something for girls about getting completely dressed for a black tie event and then taking off one piece of jewelry? I'd imagine the same rational applies here. In terms of mixing metals, though, I did something worse two weeks ago when I wore silver cufflinks and a blazer with gold-tone buttons. How scandalous!


----------



## Duvel

Yes, there is! I was thinking of that, actually. And I apply that to myself when I get dressed, but not for jewelry, since all I wear is a watch. But I do look at myself and consider if I'm wearing anything extraneous. Often it's the pocket square that doesn't quite do it, or a sweater when it's not really going to be all that cold, etc. In any case, it forces me to slow down and take a look.



Reuben said:


> Isn't there something for girls about getting completely dressed for a black tie event and then taking off one piece of jewelry? I'd imagine the same rational applies here. In terms of mixing metals, though, I did something worse two weeks ago when I wore silver cufflinks and a blazer with gold-tone buttons. How scandalous!


----------



## FLMike

Reuben said:


> Isn't there something for girls about getting completely dressed for a black tie event and then taking off one piece of jewelry? I'd imagine the same rational applies here. In terms of mixing metals, though, I did something worse two weeks ago when I wore silver cufflinks and a blazer with gold-tone buttons. How scandalous!


Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. I don't own any gold cufflinks so if I opted to wear a FC shirt with a blazer, I'd do the same thing as you. I ususally only wear FC/cufflinks with a suit, though.


----------



## Duvel

I was reminded twice today that tomorrow is "jeans day". Dammit. No way to get out of this one, is there. Would 5-pocket cords pass as jeans?


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

Duvel said:


> I was reminded twice today that tomorrow is "jeans day". Dammit. No way to get out of this one, is there. Would 5-pocket cords pass as jeans?


I feel as though they should.


----------



## Reuben

Duvel said:


> I was reminded twice today that tomorrow is "jeans day". Dammit. No way to get out of this one, is there. Would 5-pocket cords pass as jeans?


You could also try something in a duck canvas or similar "rough" fabric.


----------



## orange fury

Need opinions which fits better. The orange is slightly tight across the upper back, but I felt the blue was slightly baggy:


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> Need opinions which fits better. The orange is slightly tight across the upper back, but I felt the blue was slightly baggy:


From the photos, they both look fine. The one that fits best is the one that makes you feel most comfortable.


----------



## Topsider

orange fury said:


> Need opinions which fits better. The orange is slightly tight across the upper back, but I felt the blue was slightly baggy


You could wear either one. I'd go with the looser-fitting one, personally. It's that kinda shirt.


----------



## orange fury

Thanks for the feedback guys, I think I'm leaning towards the slightly larger one. Which color do y'all think would be more versatile? I can't decide and only want one lol. The blue is the Beach Boys limited edition, FWIW


----------



## Jovan

The blue, not only because it's more versatile but... Beach Boys.



Duvel said:


> I was reminded twice today that tomorrow is "jeans day". Dammit. No way to get out of this one, is there. Would 5-pocket cords pass as jeans?


Where on earth do you work that jeans are not optional for Friday, but mandatory? Have you given them the customary salute with arm towards the sky, palm forward?


----------



## niv

Is is bad form to wear suspenders with a suit where the pants have belt loops?


----------



## Duvel

It's mandatory only by peer pressure. I legitimately cannot wear jeans, however, because I don't own anything I'm comfortable in right now. I often flaut this, but to get two reminders in one day was a little weird.



Jovan said:


> Where on earth do you work that jeans are not optional for Friday, but mandatory? Have you given them the customary salute with arm towards the sky, palm forward?


----------



## hardline_42

orange fury said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys, I think I'm leaning towards the slightly larger one. Which color do y'all think would be more versatile? I can't decide and only want one lol. The blue is the Beach Boys limited edition, FWIW


If you plan to wear it as a light jacket over an OCBD, go with the blue one. The color is more versatile as well.


----------



## hardline_42

niv said:


> Is is bad form to wear suspenders with a suit where the pants have belt loops?


Assuming that both the belt loops and suspenders will be covered at all times, there's really no practical issue. Personally, I have the belt loops on my suits removed since I only wear them with suspenders, and consider anyone who doesn't a flip-flopping commitment-phobe :tongue2:


----------



## Jovan

Duvel said:


> It's mandatory only by peer pressure. I legitimately cannot wear jeans, however, because I don't own anything I'm comfortable in right now. I often flaut this, but to get two reminders in one day was a little weird.


Where I last worked, there was no official casual Friday, it was only implied. My boss, who always wore a suit and tie, would... not wear the coat or tie and a company logo shirt instead.

They probably think you need the extra help because of how "formal" you normally are.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

gamma68 said:


> From the photos, they both look fine. The one that fits best is the one that makes you feel most comfortable.


I like the Orange. Who makes those shirts? They look like vintage Pendleton, but you are in a dressing room and I think I see a price tag.


----------



## DLW

I stumbled across this photo. Does anyone know where to get the belt? I checked LL Bean, if it was one of there offerings it's no longer on the web site.


----------



## Duvel

Wow, no, but it's great! I'd send it along to Bean customer service and see if they have any suggestions.



Tweed McVay said:


> I stumbled across this photo. Does anyone know where to get the belt? I checked LL Bean, if it was one of there offerings it's no longer on the web site.


----------



## orange fury

Nobleprofessor said:


> I like the Orange. Who makes those shirts? They look like vintage Pendleton, but you are in a dressing room and I think I see a price tag.


Pendleton Board Shirts, and they're new, Pendleton actually still makes them. I ended up getting the blue one - it's a re-release of the pattern the beach boys were famous for wearing


----------



## HOOT

Can anyone comment on the fit of the J.Press Standard and Trim OCBD's compared to the BB OCBD in Slim?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Jovan said:


> The blue, not only because it's more versatile but... Beach Boys.


I wondered if Kurt Cobain actually wore Pendleton, since the company's in the Northwest; I couldn't find evidence. Nevertheless, "In the '60s, the surfer set adopted the wool Pendleton shirt as a jacket for pre- and post-wave-catching activities. The Beach Boys immortalized Pendleton's "shirt jack" style on the cover of their Surfer Girl album, and a girl band called The Majorettes serenaded the look in their single 'White Levi's'" (https://gizmodo.com/5889932/the-plaid-shirt-rebellion-grunge-and-a-touch-flamboyance). I felt sort of wistful about being in graduate school in the '90s upon learning that "radical" plaid features heavily in "bear chic"...gotta love the internetz (https://blog.art21.org/2011/03/01/bedfellows-the-plaid-fad/#.VF7C3_TF9v0),

Naturally, Pendleton now offers a "Portland collection"!


----------



## Spin Evans

Early on, The Beach Boys called themselves The Pendletones. So yes, the Board Shirt was much more than just a uniform for them.


----------



## Duvel

My sister, who is always extremely dressed up and bejeweled, today remarked on my Timex Easy Reader (gold case with leather band). She thought it was funny, she said, that I wore cheap watches when my clothes always looked "better than that." I had a chuckle over this, because I love my Easy Reader and my Timex Field Expedition (worn with NATO straps), but it got me to ruminating later. Ever since a girlfriend in college bought me my first Timex, way back when, I've always favored a Timex watch and actually I've never given much thought to the need for a more expensive one. Probalby 80s onward, I've owned only the Easy Reader for most dressier daily wear and an expedition type for more casual wear. Have I been missing something? I know a lot of men spend some bucks on watches.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> My sister, who is always extremely dressed up and bejeweled, today remarked on my Timex Easy Reader (gold case with leather band). She thought it was funny, she said, that I wore cheap watches when my clothes always looked "better than that." I had a chuckle over this, because I love my Easy Reader and my Timex Field Expedition (worn with NATO straps), but it got me to ruminating later. Ever since a girlfriend in college bought me my first Timex, way back when, I've always favored a Timex watch and actually I've never given much thought to the need for a more expensive one. Probalby 80s onward, I've owned only the Easy Reader for most dressier daily wear and an expedition type for more casual wear. Have I been missing something? I know a lot of men spend some bucks on watches.


I have a lot of watches, several of which would be considered pretty pricy by most of the non-WIS population. Honestly, my Timex Weekender on a NATO strap is what I primarily wear during the summer. Nothing at all wrong with a Timex- they're inexpensive and it's not heartbreaking if it gets a scratch. No shame in that at all.


----------



## Duvel

Thank you, OF. I appreciate the thoughtful response. I think it's not so much that the cheapness or "beater watch"-ness of it is the issue. I honestly think that my Timexes look pretty good. Maybe that's just because I haven't invested in more expensive watches and therefore don't appreciate the aesthetic differences. At the same time, I don't feel the need. Whereas I feel I need to spend more money to buy better sweaters or shirts and the like, I don't feel that way about watches, even though I feel that a watch is something that I must wear.


----------



## gamma68

Is there any harm in using a "quick shine" sponge on a pair of leather shoes?

I've used one occasionally on my shoes, not as a means of applying a thorough polish, but only to give them a quick buff (if needed) before heading out the door. 

I've seen no ill effects from this habit. But others seem to balk at the practice, for fear of causing some harm.

Are there any "cons" to using the sponges? Or is it all hand-wringing for naught?


----------



## Duvel

I'm currently a professed non-shiner. I have vast shoe shining experience under my military belt, however. We learned in officer training school to never ever use liquid shine on dress uniform shoes of real leather, as this can dry out the leather (never mind the demerits against leave for the weekend). I don't know if this is true or not but my sense tells me it is.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

I used to keep those shine sponges in my desk at work. I used them everyday for years. No harm at all.

Now, I do a real shine on at least one pair of shoes everyday. The shine sponges are fine just for a quick touchup. They aren't really offering any protection. It's just for a temporary shine. But, it's not going to hurt anything, but also does not replace a real shine.


----------



## ThePopinjay

I just used them on my corrected grain loafers and my beater longwings, I don't know if I'd use them on my allen edmonds. Seems a little too good to be true some how.


----------



## Duvel

I've heard the silicon claim, too. Also, it seems incongruous, to me, that one would use a product like that on a shoe that one cared about. While I'm not a shoe shiner, I do believe that, it you're going to shine your shoes, at least use the best products and take the time and care. I'm of the philosophy that something worth doing is worth doing right, and if you can't, then don't do it at all. In this case, if you can't shine your shoes, don't use the quick and easy solution. I just can't see how putting liquid shine on nice leather is right.


----------



## Jovan

Re: Shoe shine stands, they do still exist.


----------



## Duvel

Yes, they do.



Jovan said:


> Re: Shoe shine stands, they do still exist.


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> I've heard the silicon claim, too. Also, it seems incongruous, to me, that one would use a product like that on a shoe that one cared about. While I'm not a shoe shiner, I do believe that, it you're going to shine your shoes, at least use the best products and take the time and care. I'm of the philosophy that something worth doing is worth doing right, and if you can't, then don't do it at all. In this case, if you can't shine your shoes, don't use the quick and easy solution. I just can't see how putting liquid shine on nice leather is right.


Just to reiterate and clarify, I've used the shine sponges only to give a pair a quick touch up to an existing polish, only if needed, when I'm at the back door ready to leave the house. This is 30-second process taken before heading out the door. I don't consider the sponge a means of applying a thorough or proper polish.

Thus far, no one has described any specific damage or harm as a result of using a shine sponge.



Nobleprofessor said:


> I used to keep those shine sponges in my desk at work. I used them everyday for years. No harm at all.
> 
> Now, I do a real shine on at least one pair of shoes everyday. The shine sponges are fine just for a quick touchup. They aren't really offering any protection. It's just for a temporary shine. But, it's not going to hurt anything, but also does not replace a real shine.


I think NobleProf has the right approach to using the shine sponge.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that the shine sponge may be a good option for those who travel and don't want to cart around their box of shoe shine supplies.


----------



## Duvel

I've only seen claims, never the evidence. It is hard to say if there is any real harm.


----------



## Shaver

It is doubtful that shoe shine sponges inflict any damage to leather. However the shine that they provide is deeply unappealing and should be avoided for this reason if no other.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Proof or not, I wont put that crap on any decent shoe in my wardrobe. That said, I am admittedly a bit strange with this stuff, having said in another post about ironing that certain rituals are satisfying to me in a nostalgic sort of way. Nevertheless, if it came down to a sponge shine or no shine, I'd take the sponge.


----------



## ThePopinjay

gamma68 said:


> EDIT: Just wanted to add that the shine sponge may be a good option for those who travel and don't want to cart around their box of shoe shine supplies.


Or for those of us that are still dealing with that dorm room living. Space is at a premium. I barely have room for the shoes themselves, much less the shoeshine kit.


----------



## Duvel

But you said you "won't put that crap" on your shoes. Wouldn't no shine be better than putting crap on your shoes? I'm not being facetious; it just seems to me that this would be the better choice.



Brigadier Cheape said:


> Proof or not, I wont put that crap on any decent shoe in my wardrobe. That said, I am admittedly a bit strange with this stuff, having said in another post about ironing that certain rituals are satisfying to me in a nostalgic sort of way. *Nevertheless, if it came down to a sponge shine or no shine, I'd take the sponge.*


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Allow me to clarify my contradiction. What I'm really saying is that i won't wear a shoe without at least a good polish if not an actual shine. If I had a cheap shoe that wasn't polished whatsoever, I would use a sponge instead of wearing the shoe unpolished. I don't own any such shoes and don't own any sponges, so my example was purely hypothetical.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Duvel said:


> But you said you "won't put that crap" on your shoes. Wouldn't no shine be better than putting crap on your shoes? I'm not being facetious; it just seems to me that this would be the better choice.


Not shining your shoes EVER is similar to not buttoning your shirt, or leaving your belt unbuckled, or leaving your fly open. In my humble opinion, you aren't fully dressed if your shoes aren't shined. Here are the exceptions: 1. I'm not talking about shining them every time you wear them. 2. Some shoes are left purposefully unshined because of the finish or the style. But, if you are wearing what would be generically described as dress shoes, they should be shined -- at least occasionally.

This is for me analogous to Billax's comments regarding having a crease in your trousers. It is (again in my opinion) a requirement to be properly dressed.

Why clean your clothes, but not shine your shoes.


----------



## DLW

I'm trying to find the length of a short suit/sport coat. I'm sure it may vary somewhat from manufacture to manufacture. I was able to find this link from July of 2008 where Andy supplied information on jacket size by height.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...93-Whats-the-difference-between-a-40R-and-40S

Can anyone advise or direct me to a link that lists the length of coats short/regular/long, and do you measure from the top or bottom of the collar?


----------



## Duvel

I generally underdress. I prefer it to overdressing. 



Nobleprofessor said:


> Not shining your shoes EVER is *similar to not buttoning your shirt, or leaving your belt unbuckled, or leaving your fly open. In* my humble opinion, you aren't fully dressed if your shoes aren't shined. Here are the exceptions: 1. I'm not talking about shining them every time you wear them. 2. Some shoes are left purposefully unshined because of the finish or the style. But, if you are wearing what would be generically described as dress shoes, they should be shined -- at least occasionally.
> 
> This is for me analogous to Billax's comments regarding having a crease in your trousers. It is (again in my opinion) a requirement to be properly dressed.
> 
> Why clean your clothes, but not shine your shoes.


----------



## orange fury

Picked these up about a month ago:

https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...9-4D33-B2A3-9FEE36D49463_zpsw6yhwadx.jpg.html

the season of multiple Christmas parties approacheth, and I need to get these tailored (unfinished hems). Should I have them cuffed or not? The reason I ask is that they come across as a bit more dressy, like they wouldn't be cuffed for the same reason you don't cuff tuxedo pants (I know this isn't black tie, but still). Opinions appreciated.


----------



## Orgetorix

I'd cuff them, if you aren't actually going to be wearing them with a dinner jacket.


----------



## RT-Bone

Orgetorix said:


> I'd cuff them, if you aren't actually going to be wearing them with a dinner jacket.


Agreed. Cuff them.

Do you have a camel jacket? That would be a great combo.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Cuff em


----------



## FLMike

Definitely cuff 'em.


----------



## Reuben

Big ole cuffs. And they'll kill with that burgundy velvet jacket you bought from bonobos. I rocked mine with a burgundy flannel last year but it's a little too large for me now.


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> Big ole cuffs. And they'll kill with that burgundy velvet jacket you bought from bonobos. I rocked mine with a burgundy flannel last year but it's a little too large for me now.


The Bonobos velvet DJ was actually this one:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...6-4AF1-BB7E-265B2202D586_zpsyadzu0zi.jpg.html

i think you're thinking of the J Ferrar (JC Penney) velvet jacket I got a few years back:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/orangefury88/media/WAYWT/image_zps046b36dd.jpg.html

Unfortunately that jacket is too big for me now, I would need literally every dimension altered to get it to fit properly 

I did did buy a navy velvet J Ferrar sportcoat from JCP's website a couple days ago as a replacement, unfortunately it's not peak lapels or single button like this, but we'll see how it works.

....actually, as a side question, how well do you guys think the Bonobos jacket would go with the blackwatch pants? I understand they won't have the satin trim to match the jacket, but it was a thought...


----------



## Duvel

Do prep schools these days still teach or show kids rules or expectation of dress and etiquette, etc.? I don't mean to sound like a snob, and I myself am a product of public education. However, I attend a number of somewhat formal events in my humble job at a liberal arts college, and I cannot believe what the kids think they can (and do) get away with wearing to events where one should be expected to wear something more than a t-shirt and jeans. I doubt that any of our enrolled come from private or preparatory high schools, just knowing that most students here take advantage of the school's enormous financial generosity. Would I see something different if they did, simple navy blazers at least?


----------



## Duvel

No thoughts? I need answers, people. Answers, I tell you!


----------



## orange fury

Random question- this is the flannel LL Bean shirt I wore today:


the shirt is kind of big in the body, but since the fabric is heavy enough, it holds a military tuck really well. The sleeves are the perfect length though.

I saw a post on TDP where Muffy was lamenting how the sleeves on these shrink 1.5" and the body shrinks 1.75". I've never had that issue as I wash cold on gentle/hang dry, but she didn't say how she washes them. I'm wondering if that's going to happen down the road though, does anyone have LLB flannels that you wash cold/hang dry, and had there been any appreciable shrinkage over time?


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

I'd honestly be shocked to see that kind of shrinkage even washing in hot and tumble dry on high, not that I don't trust her. I would think you wouldn't see anywhere near that with a cold wash hang dry. I don't have experience with those particular shirts though, full disclosure.


----------



## gamma68

orange fury said:


> I saw a post on TDP where Muffy was lamenting how the sleeves on these shrink 1.5" and the body shrinks 1.75". I've never had that issue as I wash cold on gentle/hang dry, but she didn't say how she washes them. I'm wondering if that's going to happen down the road though, does anyone have LLB flannels that you wash cold/hang dry, and had there been any appreciable shrinkage over time?


In my experience, these shirts do shrink a bit, even in a cold wash/hang dry. I sized up from a M to L because of this. I find the L a little too big for me, so it seems I'm kinda in the middle between M and L. I'd rather have the shirt a little roomy than a little tight, so I've stuck with size L.


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> Do prep schools these days still teach or show kids rules or expectation of dress and etiquette, etc.? I don't mean to sound like a snob, and I myself am a product of public education. However, I attend a number of somewhat formal events in my humble job at a liberal arts college, and I cannot believe what the kids think they can (and do) get away with wearing to events where one should be expected to wear something more than a t-shirt and jeans. I doubt that any of our enrolled come from private or preparatory high schools, just knowing that most students here take advantage of the school's enormous financial generosity. Would I see something different if they did, simple navy blazers at least?


I happened to be on the campus of the Cranbrook Educational Community yesterday, and I saw not one kid in a blazer. The students seemed to be wearing nothing different than kids at any other school.


----------



## universitystripe

Duvel said:


> Do prep schools these days still teach or show kids rules or expectation of dress and etiquette, etc.? I don't mean to sound like a snob, and I myself am a product of public education. However, I attend a number of somewhat formal events in my humble job at a liberal arts college, and I cannot believe what the kids think they can (and do) get away with wearing to events where one should be expected to wear something more than a t-shirt and jeans. I doubt that any of our enrolled come from private or preparatory high schools, just knowing that most students here take advantage of the school's enormous financial generosity. Would I see something different if they did, simple navy blazers at least?


I cannot speak from direct knowledge, Duvel, but back in my Tumblr days I was amazed when I stumbled upon which highlights what the students of the historic Phillips Exeter Academy wear. I will let you make your own assumptions based off its contents. :icon_study:


----------



## Duvel

This is disheartening.


----------



## universitystripe

Duvel said:


> This is disheartening.


Yes. I'm afraid it is dead to its roots, unless you count Vineyard Vines as the true heir of preppy style.


----------



## Kreiger

Duvel said:


> Do prep schools these days still teach or show kids rules or expectation of dress and etiquette, etc.? I don't mean to sound like a snob, and I myself am a product of public education. However, I attend a number of somewhat formal events in my humble job at a liberal arts college, and I cannot believe what the kids think they can (and do) get away with wearing to events where one should be expected to wear something more than a t-shirt and jeans. I doubt that any of our enrolled come from private or preparatory high schools, just knowing that most students here take advantage of the school's enormous financial generosity. Would I see something different if they did, simple navy blazers at least?


I think location might be a pretty significant factor. Prep schools in the midwest and west are likely more casual than those in the south or east. I am a (relatively) recent graduate of a 'highly selective liberal arts college' in the northeast. I would say that about 60% of the students had attended private preparatory schools. Students generally wore 'preppy' clothes- chinos, ocbds, blazers were not unheard of, but this wasn't Take Ivy either. For events, dress really depended on the specific nature of the event. Suits were generally required for networking/mock interview type events, nice shirts and slacks for others, and some were casual/anything goes. I'm not sure that there was really any correlation between prep school attendance and dress. I attended public school in the midwest, but we did receive at least nominal instruction on dress/etiquette for job interviews, meetings, work etc.


----------



## Kreiger

Duvel said:


> This is disheartening.


Why? From what I can tell, the point of the blog is to provide examples of casual, fashionable dress for teenagers that still complies with the Exeter dress code. I think the photos, at least the one's that I saw, are fine. There isn't any suggestion that these are the kinds of clothes you should wear to more formal situations. A google image search for 'Phillips Exeter Graduation' shows students in uniform blazer/tie/khakis or white dresses. Isn't dressing well all about being appropriate for the situation?


----------



## Duvel

I hear you. The examples were simply not as traditional as I would like to see. They are very urban hipster bohemian.


----------



## gamma68

Duvel said:


> This is disheartening.


If you think those photos are bad, you should see how the students in my area dress.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

My nephew wears a blazer and repp tie to his private school in NY. It's a damn shame though that we have generations of men who only know how to dress like boys.


----------



## orange fury

ThatDudeOrion said:


> I'd honestly be shocked to see that kind of shrinkage even washing in hot and tumble dry on high, not that I don't trust her. I would think you wouldn't see anywhere near that with a cold wash hang dry. I don't have experience with those particular shirts though, full disclosure.





gamma68 said:


> In my experience, these shirts do shrink a bit, even in a cold wash/hang dry. I sized up from a M to L because of this. I find the L a little too big for me, so it seems I'm kinda in the middle between M and L. I'd rather have the shirt a little roomy than a little tight, so I've stuck with size L.


Thanks for the feedback guys, I pulled my shirts out of the wash last night and hung them to dry, and discovered this morning that the sleeves had indeed shrunk a bit, now to my wristbone when pulled taut. I called LL Bean and ordered all 4 shirts in a Medium (Prince Charles of Edward, Navy Tartan, Black Watch, and Black Stewart), and will be sending back the smalls. I also went ahead and ordered the MacHardie and Royal Stewart (they had a few in stock from last year) while I was at it.

Since the smalls initially fit, I'll have to wash the mediums a couple times before wearing them to get some of the shrinkage out.


----------



## Jovan

Duvel said:


> This is disheartening.





Kreiger said:


> Why? From what I can tell, the point of the blog is to provide examples of casual, fashionable dress for teenagers that still complies with the Exeter dress code. I think the photos, at least the one's that I saw, are fine. There isn't any suggestion that these are the kinds of clothes you should wear to more formal situations. A google image search for 'Phillips Exeter Graduation' shows students in uniform blazer/tie/khakis or white dresses. Isn't dressing well all about being appropriate for the situation?


I don't see why either. Apart from the untucked shirt with sweater on one page a lot of this is pretty smart, even if it isn't our preferred fit. It's a lot better than people dress around these parts.


----------



## Duvel

Well, we'll just have to disagree, then. I don't think much of it is "smart," and not just because it's not our preferred fit.



Jovan said:


> I don't see why either. Apart from the untucked shirt with sweater on one page a lot of this is pretty smart, even if it isn't our preferred fit. It's a lot better than people dress around these parts.


----------



## FLMike

Jovan said:


> I don't see why either. Apart from the untucked shirt with sweater on one page a lot of this is pretty smart, even if it isn't our preferred fit. It's a lot better than people dress around these parts.





Duvel said:


> Well, we'll just have to disagree, then. I don't think much of it is "smart," and not just because it's not our preferred fit.


I find myself agreeing with Jovan here (yes, I had to check my temperature to make sure I was ok). These are high school kids, for goodness sake. I think they're well ahead of the sartorial game compared to 90+% of kids their age. Sure, some could use a little guidance and a good bit of fine tuning, but again....they're teenagers!


----------



## Duvel

Why, when I was their age... ! LOL. Oh, I am turning into a grumpy old man, ain't I. Ah, well, I am too old not to be honest, and I honestly don't like the way these damned kids dress.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Why, when I was their age... ! LOL. Oh, I am turning into a grumpy old man, ain't I. Ah, well, I am too old not to be honest, and I honestly don't like the way these damned kids dress.


...now get off my lawn!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

FLCracka said:


> I find myself agreeing with Jovan here (yes, I had to check my temperature to make sure I was ok). These are high school kids, for goodness sake. I think they're well ahead of the sartorial game compared to 90+% of kids their age. Sure, some could use a little guidance and a good bit of fine tuning, but again....they're teenagers!


The Catholic prep school down the street (and it is far from prestigious) from me has a better dress code than this. I see denim and untucked shirts which are two items that I did not anticipate seeing.


----------



## Z.J.P

Is there a difference in tail length between a Regular fit BB OCBD and the Slim Fit BB OCBD? How much?

Update: Found it on Brooks Website. Of course I did.


----------



## mhj

Follow up to my earlier post about the cleaners pressing my khakis on the seam. I took them back today and the clerk apologized and said a lot of the young guys have any pant, causal or dress, with a flat front pressed that way. She was very nice and they are redoing them. I guess I've been out of touch with the style world for too long


----------



## Duvel

I think that was the point I was trying to make. If you look at J. Crew models in chinos, or Gap or Banana, they're wearing their chinos flat, no creased front. It is, to my view, the norm for a lot of guys these days.



mhj said:


> Follow up to my earlier post about the cleaners pressing my khakis on the seam. I took them back today and the clerk apologized and said a lot of the young guys have any pant, causal or dress, with a flat front pressed that way. She was very nice and they are redoing them. I guess I've been out of touch with the style world for too long


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I think that was the point I was trying to make. If you look at J. Crew models in chinos, or Gap or Banana, they're wearing their chinos flat, no creased front. It is, to my view, the norm for a lot of guys these days.


To your point, J.Crew's Bowery pants, which are a dress trouser, while they show them on the models with a crease - it is not a pronounced crease and in some pictures it looks like there isn't a crease.


----------



## mhj

Fading Fast said:


> To your point, J.Crew's Bowery pants, which are a dress trouser, while they show them on the models with a crease - it is not a pronounced crease and in some pictures it looks like there isn't a crease.


I see what you guys mean. I'm not sure why someone would take pants to the cleaners to look like that, you can have that look with home laundering. I take mine in because they can make a sharp straight crease much better than I can.


----------



## orange fury

Just want opinions: I'm looking at getting the LLB Maritime Classic Anorak (I can't find my anorak from college and decided it's time to get a LLB one). I'm torn between the Garnet and the Vibrant Blue, help me decide which one-
https://m.llbean.com/product.html#86472


----------



## wwilson

orange fury said:


> Just want opinions: I'm looking at getting the LLB Maritime Classic Anorak (I can't find my anorak from college and decided it's time to get a LLB one). I'm torn between the Garnet and the Vibrant Blue, help me decide which one-
> https://m.llbean.com/product.html#86472


I went with a vintage from ebay ($20) and really enjoy it. It has the logo that is similar to the Patagonia logo. I'd take pics but its out in the truck and its 18 degrees right now...i wish there was some kind of a logo/label id or date code for the Bean stuff to help identify date of manufacture...kind of on a MIA kick right now, especially with Bean gear...hence the recent Bean purchases( yup, I said "hence" before 7 am...gonna be a good day!)


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> Just want opinions: I'm looking at getting the LLB Maritime Classic Anorak (I can't find my anorak from college and decided it's time to get a LLB one). I'm torn between the Garnet and the Vibrant Blue, help me decide which one-
> https://m.llbean.com/product.html#86472


I'd go garnet for two reason (1) while both colors will work for you (knowing, by now, your wardrobe and style), the red over your many chinos or a pair of jeans will look great and (2) my girlfriend has a very similar red that's large on her so I'll throw it on to run an errand and the red basically goes with everything. Neither is a wrong color, it is basically taste, but since you asked, that's my two cents.


----------



## Orgetorix

Anyone ever had any luck smoothing down shell that had a slightly rough texture? The toe caps on my new boots are just not quite as smooth as the rest of the boots.


----------



## LookinSharp24

need flannels. think exactly like the LL Bean Scotch Plaid (look, quality, ~price) but slimmer fit. are they out there?


----------



## UnivStripe

OTC Argyle wool socks for 2014

I am looking for recommendations of sources for wool OTC Argyle socks. I have seen some awesome socks in the WAYWT Shoe thread and would like to purchase some. The ones that I have are Byford (70% Merino Wool, 29% Nylon, and 1% Lycra) and were represented to me as OTC socks. The problem is that they are about four inches too short for the length of my legs. I turn them inside out, machine wash them in cool water, and hang them to dry on a line. They have not spent any time in a hot air dryer so I think that nothing that I have done should have caused them to shrink. The length of the foot is still long enough so I think that I did not shrink them.

I am happy with the colors, thickness, and country of origin (Peru) of the Byford socks, just not the leg length. I would like socks of at least 70% Merino Wool that are not too thin.

Any recommendations or suggestions are greatly appreciated.


----------



## Z.J.P

Orgetorix said:


> Anyone ever had any luck smoothing down shell that had a slightly rough texture? The toe caps on my new boots are just not quite as smooth as the rest of the boots.


I would try this: https://www.amazon.com/Deer-Leg-Bone/dp/B00C3KU3J8/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top


----------



## yoshi

UnivStripe said:


> OTC Argyle wool socks for 2014
> 
> I am looking for recommendations of sources for wool OTC Argyle socks. I have seen some awesome socks in the WAYWT Shoe thread and would like to purchase some. The ones that I have are Byford (70% Merino Wool, 29% Nylon, and 1% Lycra) and were represented to me as OTC socks. The problem is that they are about four inches too short for the length of my legs. I turn them inside out, machine wash them in cool water, and hang them to dry on a line. They have not spent any time in a hot air dryer so I think that nothing that I have done should have caused them to shrink. The length of the foot is still long enough so I think that I did not shrink them.
> 
> I am happy with the colors, thickness, and country of origin (Peru) of the Byford socks, just not the leg length. I would like socks of at least 70% Merino Wool that are not too thin.
> 
> Any recommendations or suggestions are greatly appreciated.


These are what I buy currently:

Very nice socks. Ben Silver also offers some, but they are slightly more expensive and have fewer colorways.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I cannot remember ever seeing anyone wearing a BB pinpoint button-down in _French_ blue on the trad WAYWT. I don't like the look of French blue against dark gray suits, but under what tradly circumstances _would_ one wear such a shirt? I'm trying to figure out how to use my double corporate discount at BB; that's why I'm asking.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

^^
Last July.










I didn't hold on to to the shirt, as I recall. I wear a pink pinpoint sometimes.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

That settles it for me, YRR: I'd prefer the blue university stripe OCBD there (or lavender, what the hell).


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Oh, a blue unistripe is twice as good as a french blue pinpoint, no doubt.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Oh, a blue unistripe is twice as good as a french blue pinpoint, no doubt.


That's good, because I just bought two of them.


----------



## gamma68

How do you gentlemen deal with a short tie?

My understanding is that a regular-length tie measures about 57-58" long. Boys ties measure about 47-48" long.

I just received some vintage wool ties off eBay that measure between 51.5" and 54". I haven't tried tying them but don't think the back blade will be long enough to make it through the keeper. I'm 5-9, BTW, so average height.

Is there a strategy for dealing with this?


----------



## gamma68

Anyone have any thoughts on how to best deal with the shorter wool ties? 

Is it fine to leave the back blade hanging since it will be short of the keeper?

Or should I return them?

Other?


----------



## TheoProf

gamma68 said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on how to best deal with the shorter wool ties?
> 
> Is it fine to leave the back blade hanging since it will be short of the keeper?
> 
> Or should I return them?
> 
> Other?


I have a few ties like that, and I'm fine with it if I really like the tie. I'd strictly use a FIH knot though. At your size, it shouldn't be too much of a problem either. If you were a larger trad it might present more of a problem. The "garage door" effect would necessitate a longer tie. I speak from former experience on that one. Again, the question really comes down to how much you like the ties.


----------



## orange fury

gamma68 said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on how to best deal with the shorter wool ties?
> 
> Is it fine to leave the back blade hanging since it will be short of the keeper?
> 
> Or should I return them?
> 
> Other?


A couple of my vintage ties are on the shorter side, and I've had my tailor remove the keeper and move it further up the tie. With my vintage ties, the keeper is just the maker's tag, so I don't know how difficult moving a self keeper would be (I think that's what it's called when it's the same fabric as the tie?). The Ferrell Reed tie I wore last week had the tag moved up about 1.5"-2", and it's worked great.


----------



## orange fury

Tweed McVay said:


> I have question about tailoring/alterations. Please bear with me.
> I will be long, boring and probably confusing, and too many photos so I will apologize now.
> 
> I bought this toggle coat a few years ago and worn it one windy day to try it out. The coat was tight and I have never worn it since. Now that I have lost weight, I am able to fit onto the coat and the sleeves will need altering. My arms are on the short side so I assume there will be a great deal of shortening. My question is how much material a tailor removes when the alterations done. I am wondering if enough material will be removed, from the two sleeves, to make a throat latch for the coat. I feel a throat latch will help the hood say in place as it had a tendency to fall of your head with any type of wind. Can anyone advise, or can only a tailor tell me? The one picture of a coat with the throat latch is one I pilfered off eBay a few years ago for reference. The others are how the coat sleeves look on me as is. Anyone think there's enough material to do it.?


It looks like there will be enough, but I would consult with your tailor.


----------



## gamma68

Thanks, gents, for your feedback on the ties. I do like them both a lot, so I think I'll try them on and see how they look with a four-in-hand. 

(Left): Craigmill (Shetland wool, made in Scotland). (Right): Rooster (made in Scotland).


----------



## yoshi

Question re eBay etiquette. I recently won a pair of Alden for bb shell tassels. Paid for shipping on top of the auction price. 

Got a card in the mail from USPS saying I owed an additional $12.60 in postage if I wanted to retrieve the item. Obviously I paid. 

How do I handle this with the seller? I am thinking I will just send him a message including pictures of the card from USPS and the box with their markings on on it indicating the problem and ask him to cover the difference. Or I could just let it go. $12 ain't gonna break me. 

I also feel like I have a duty to this guy to let him know in case he plans on making any future sales. It seems like an honest mistake to me


----------



## orange fury

gamma68 said:


> Thanks, gents, for your feedback on the ties. I do like them both a lot, so I think I'll try them on and see how they look with a four-in-hand.
> 
> (Left): Craigmill (Shetland wool, made in Scotland). (Right): Rooster (made in Scotland).


those are GORGEOUS ties! Do whatever it takes to make them work lol



yoshi said:


> Question re eBay etiquette. I recently won a pair of Alden for bb shell tassels. Paid for shipping on top of the auction price.
> 
> Got a card in the mail from USPS saying I owed an additional $12.60 in postage if I wanted to retrieve the item. Obviously I paid.
> 
> How do I handle this with the seller? I am thinking I will just send him a message including pictures of the card from USPS and the box with their markings on on it indicating the problem and ask him to cover the difference. Or I could just let it go. $12 ain't gonna break me.
> 
> I also feel like I have a duty to this guy to let him know in case he plans on making any future sales. It seems like an honest mistake to me


if it were me, I would pay the $12 and not ask the seller for reimbursement, but I would notify the seller as an FYI for future sales.


----------



## Fading Fast

yoshi said:


> Question re eBay etiquette. I recently won a pair of Alden for bb shell tassels. Paid for shipping on top of the auction price.
> 
> Got a card in the mail from USPS saying I owed an additional $12.60 in postage if I wanted to retrieve the item. Obviously I paid.
> 
> How do I handle this with the seller? I am thinking I will just send him a message including pictures of the card from USPS and the box with their markings on on it indicating the problem and ask him to cover the difference. Or I could just let it go. $12 ain't gonna break me.
> 
> I also feel like I have a duty to this guy to let him know in case he plans on making any future sales. It seems like an honest mistake to me


I would message him, tell him what happened and ask him what he thinks. He should reimburse you, and if it is an honest mistake, he will, but if he doesn't - by putting the question to him - you haven't made a federal case out of it. That's probably how far I would take it.

That said, you should not pay for shipping twice, so if he doesn't reimburse you and you want to take it to the next step, you can open a complaint (or whatever it is called on Ebay) formally on Ebay and ask for the shipping reimbursement that way. Since the seller probably wants to keep a good rating and wants to continue to sell on Ebay, he will probably reimburse you now if he didn't when you just sent him a message.

If he honestly reimburses you, then you can leave him positive feedback and there is no harm and no foul. But think of it this way, if you just absorb the shipping and, by chance, he is trying to cheat buyers, then by being completely silent, you are unintentionally setting up the next buyer of goods from this guy for the same problem.

Good luck.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

What size is this SC? 

21.5 P2P 
18 shoulder 
24.5 Sleeve 
30 BOC 

i can't figure out if this would be a 38R 40S or even a 39R. Does anyone make a 39?


----------



## TheoProf

Gamma, those ties are superb. Agree with OF, you must make them work. Congrats.


----------



## orange fury

Nobleprofessor said:


> What size is this SC?
> 
> 21.5 P2P
> 18 shoulder
> 24.5 Sleeve
> 30 BOC
> 
> i can't figure out if this would be a 38R 40S or even a 39R. Does anyone make a 39?


I would say a 38R on all dimensions except the chest, which makes me think a 39R. Is this one you're selling? Because I would list it as a 38R with instructions to read the measurements


----------



## Nobleprofessor

orange fury said:


> I would say a 38R on all dimensions except the chest, which makes me think a 39R. Is this one you're selling? Because I would list it as a 38R with instructions to read the measurements


Yes, I'm planning to sell it. The 21.5 P2p was throwing me off too.


----------



## orange fury

Nobleprofessor said:


> Yes, I'm planning to sell it. The 21.5 P2p was throwing me off too.


Ive seen 39R's often but never a 39S, so I would hesitate to call it that, but I have seen chest measurements vary on a 38 within that range. Because every other dimension is a 38R, I would say 38R/read measurements carefully.


----------



## gamma68

I'd call it a 40R. A short would be less than 30" in length, measuring from the bottom of the collar.



Nobleprofessor said:


> What size is this SC?
> 
> 21.5 P2P
> 18 shoulder
> 24.5 Sleeve
> 30 BOC
> 
> i can't figure out if this would be a 38R 40S or even a 39R. Does anyone make a 39?


----------



## Nobleprofessor

gamma68 said:


> I'd call it a 40R. A short would be less than 30" in length, measuring from the bottom of the collar.


if you wear a 39R, what is the chest and shoulder measurement for most of yours?


----------



## gamma68

Nobleprofessor said:


> if you wear a 39R, what is the chest and shoulder measurement for most of yours?


Here's what works best for me:

Shoulders: 17.5" (although some of mine are 18")
Chest: 42"
Waist: 40"
Length: 30"


----------



## zeppacoustic

A jacket that has been previously taken in at the waist can be let out, correct? This is regarding a blazer that is pulling slightly at the waist. Thanks.


----------



## Kreiger

zeppacoustic said:


> A jacket that has been previously taken in at the waist can be let out, correct? This is regarding a blazer that is pulling slightly at the waist. Thanks.


It all depends on if the tailor who took in the jacket left the extra fabric or if that fabric had been trimmed away. If your jacket has an exposed seam, you could check yourself. My unreasoned presumption is that the less fabric was taken in previously, the greater the chance the tailor just folded it under.


----------



## zeppacoustic

Kreiger said:


> It all depends on if the tailor who took in the jacket left the extra fabric or if that fabric had been trimmed away. If your jacket has an exposed seam, you could check yourself. My unreasoned presumption is that the less fabric was taken in previously, the greater the chance the tailor just folded it under.


I cannot tell by looking or feeling the jacket. Would the tailor have to open the seam to find out?


----------



## Kreiger

I imagine they would have to check underneath the lining to make that determination, but they would not have to open the side seam itself to do so. I would say just take the jacket to the tailor you would have do the alteration and see what they have to say. No reputable tailor will charge you for anything if they can't do the work.


----------



## Duvel

A good tailor should be able to tell just by feeling it.


----------



## Bama87

JAB camel hair jacket for $99. Worth it? Looking for a decent light colored sc.


----------



## GenuineWeejun

Anyone has a reasonable explanation why BBs "3 for 225" shirt offering doesn't apply to international customers? I find it discriminating and annoying.


----------



## Tahmasp

Hi all. I've just purchased a J Press 3/2 sack. It's from the Presstige line, half-canvassed and made by Cohen. The pictures below are the off-the-rack fit, and I was wondering what feedback you all would have about further alterations. To my eye, the sleeves need be hemmed about 1/2 inch, and it may also benefit from waist suppression. Please let me know what alterations you'd get in my shoes.


----------



## orange fury

Tahmasp said:


> Hi all. I've just purchased a J Press 3/2 sack. It's from the Presstige line, half-canvassed and made by Cohen. The pictures below are the off-the-rack fit, and I was wondering what feedback you all would have about further alterations. To my eye, the sleeves need be hemmed about 1/2 inch, and it may also benefit from waist suppression. Please let me know what alterations you'd get in my shoes.


I hate to say it, but those shoulders are a bit too big. If you're able to, you may try exchanging it for the next size down


----------



## yoshi

Tahmasp said:


> Hi all. I've just purchased a J Press 3/2 sack. It's from the Presstige line, half-canvassed and made by Cohen. The pictures below are the off-the-rack fit, and I was wondering what feedback you all would have about further alterations. To my eye, the sleeves need be hemmed about 1/2 inch, and it may also benefit from waist suppression. Please let me know what alterations you'd get in my shoes.


A small amount of waist suppression would be good. But, more importantly, it looks to be on the verge of "too big" in the shoulders. This could just be due to the recent J. Press fetish for padded shoulders. Sleeves should come up a bit as well.

Edit: noticed OF made the same comment about the shoulders. If you can exchange it, do so. If you cannot, you'll still be better dressed than 97% of the other guys in public.


----------



## Tahmasp

yoshi said:


> A small amount of waist suppression would be good. But, more importantly, it looks to be on the verge of "too big" in the shoulders. This could just be due to the recent J. Press fetish for padded shoulders. Sleeves should come up a bit as well.


I do think this is due to the padding, not the fit. My shoulders are right up against the fabric, there's no divoting, and it easily passes the wall test. I don't think going a size down will help much, it's just a shame that natural shoulders are so hard to come by even from J Press. Thanks for your advice.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Bama87 said:


> JAB camel hair jacket for $99. Worth it? Looking for a decent light colored sc.


Decent camel hair looks great. Cheap camel hair looks awful. You can tell them apart in a second. If you've seen it in person to judge the cloth, _and_ you like the fit/styling, _and_ you wouldn't rather have a hundred dollar chunk of some other thing, then I guess it's worthwhile. But if any of those things is a "no," then hold off.


----------



## DLW

I read the article by Put this On, that an overcoat size corresponds to the same size of your suit jacket/sc. I have read elsewhere, if you wear for example, a size 42 SJ/SC your overcoat should be a 44. Have I been wrong all this time? Is this just modern sizing, or does this correspond to vintage size as well?

https://putthison.com/tagged/Q-and-Answer

The label size of an overcoat should correspond to the size of your chest, just as a suit coat would. Therefore, *if you have a 42-inch chest, you wear a size 42 jacket and a size 42 overcoat*. Generally speaking, the chest of an overcoat will measure about four inches more than its tagged size - so a size 42 will be about 46", giving you room for your suit or sport coat underneath.


----------



## orange fury

Tweed McVay said:


> I read the article by Put this On, that an overcoat size corresponds to the same size of your suit jacket/sc. I have read elsewhere, if you wear for example, a size 42 SJ/SC your overcoat should be a 44. Have I been wrong all this time? Is this just modern sizing, or does this correspond to vintage size as well?
> 
> https://putthison.com/tagged/Q-and-Answer
> 
> The label size of an overcoat should correspond to the size of your chest, just as a suit coat would. Therefore, *if you have a 42-inch chest, you wear a size 42 jacket and a size 42 overcoat*. Generally speaking, the chest of an overcoat will measure about four inches more than its tagged size - so a size 42 will be about 46", giving you room for your suit or sport coat underneath.


I wear a 38R jacket and have always purchased 38R overcoats, which fit perfectly over a suit. They're sized to account for this.


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> I wear a 38R jacket and have always purchased 38R overcoats, which fit perfectly over a suit. They're sized to account for this.


Agreed, I am a 40L and have always bought a 40L overcoat and it fits perfectly over my suit jacket.


----------



## Fading Fast

Has anyone heard of a brand Everlane. I received a catalogue from them yesterday and thought their OCBD looked nice when I checked them out on line (collar too short for a full on roll, but in the picture it has a small one). It's $55, so not expensive or cheap, just wondering if anyone had tried it? This is a link to the shirt on their website:

https://www.everlane.com/collections/mens-shirts/products/mens-slim-fit-oxford-classic-blue


----------



## HOOT

Does anyone know where I can find chinos with a 28 waist and a decent rise? 

I've tried the Jack Donnelly's but they are a little low on the waist, whilst the O'Connell's are just huge on me.


----------



## Topsider

HOOT said:


> Does anyone know where I can find chinos with a 28 waist and a decent rise?
> 
> I've tried the Jack Donnelly's but they are a little low on the waist, whilst the O'Connell's are just huge on me.


I only recently purchased my first pair of Jack Donnelly khakis (the Dalton fit), and think the rise is just right (I'm 5'11"). They're just a bit higher than Bills M2, but not as high as the M1.
Bills Khakis M1 has the longest rise of any khakis I've owned. The fit overall is voluminous, however.

Lands' End is another option. Order them with a long rise (available with the traditional fit). Don't let the non-iron thing dissuade you. They don't look or feel like it. They are just a bit dressier than Bills or Jack Donnelly, however.

https://www.landsend.com/products/mens-plain-front-traditional-fit-no-iron-chino-pants/id_180770


----------



## Duvel

Second the LE recommendation. They're definitely dressier chinos, but I like that. They work well with blazers and sport coats.


----------



## orange fury

So getting Bean Boots gave me the bug...now I want the mocs. And I have a $10 off coupon and the 10% off coupon at my disposal.

I normally wear a 10.5 shoe, and the 10 boots work great- perfect fit with thick wool socks, and looser but still very comfortable with thin athletic socks. I seem to think that I've read that the rubber mocs actually wear a bit larger than the boots, should I size down to a 9 for these? The big problem with the 9 boots was that I couldn't wear wool socks with them, I like the flexibility I have with my current boots and would like to use these with wool socks or sockless, if possible.


----------



## Duvel

I wish I could advise. I only own the Boots. At first I thought you meant the Blucher Mocs. I did size down 1/2 from my measured size of 11 to a 10.5, and almost could go down to 10 but I was afraid they'd be too tight.


----------



## HOOT

Topsider said:


> I only recently purchased my first pair of Jack Donnelly khakis (the Dalton fit), and think the rise is just right (I'm 5'11"). They're just a bit higher than Bills M2, but not as high as the M1.
> Bills Khakis M1 has the longest rise of any khakis I've owned. The fit overall is voluminous, however.
> 
> Lands' End is another option. Order them with a long rise (available with the traditional fit). Don't let the non-iron thing dissuade you. They don't look or feel like it. They are just a bit dressier than Bills or Jack Donnelly, however.
> 
> https://www.landsend.com/products/mens-plain-front-traditional-fit-no-iron-chino-pants/id_180770





Duvel said:


> Second the LE recommendation. They're definitely dressier chinos, but I like that. They work well with blazers and sport coats.


I appreciate the feedback guys. The problem is I have a 28" waist so I have a hard time finding trousers that come in that size. For example both JD (Original Fit) and LE start at 30" (long rise option starts at 34").


----------



## Topsider

HOOT said:


> I appreciate the feedback guys. The problem is I have a 28" waist so I have a hard time finding trousers that come in that size. For example both JD (Original Fit) and LE start at 30" (long rise option starts at 34").


Can't you just have them taken in at the waist?


----------



## Duvel

I would just get the 30s and either cinch them with a belt or get them taken in.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> I wish I could advise. I only own the Boots. At first I thought you meant the Blucher Mocs. I did size down 1/2 from my measured size of 11 to a 10.5, and almost could go down to 10 but I was afraid they'd be too tight.


Thanks anyways, I talked to a rep on the LLbean chat on their website, and they suggested I stick with the 10's for the Mocs since the sizing is apparently the same. I'll update when I get them.


----------



## Trad-ish

orange fury said:


> Thanks anyways, I talked to a rep on the LLbean chat on their website, and they suggested I stick with the 10's for the Mocs since the sizing is apparently the same. I'll update when I get them.


I hope it works out for you, OF. I couldn't get a pair of mocs that worked. I may have to try the gumshoes instead.


----------



## orange fury

Trad-ish said:


> I hope it works out for you, OF. I couldn't get a pair of mocs that worked. I may have to try the gumshoes instead.


The looseness of the boots took some getting used to at first, but once I got used to them, they're wonderfully comfortable. I'm approaching the Mocs with the same mindset


----------



## oxford cloth button down

HOOT said:


> I appreciate the feedback guys. The problem is I have a 28" waist so I have a hard time finding trousers that come in that size. For example both JD (Original Fit) and LE start at 30" (long rise option starts at 34").


Try the J.Crew Essential fit in classic fit in a 29. Wash and dry them on hot. The rise may be too low, but there aren't a lot of options in this size. I know being a 29. However, a JD 29 is much snugger than a J.Crew 29 so YMMV.


----------



## hardline_42

orange fury said:


> So getting Bean Boots gave me the bug...now I want the mocs. And I have a $10 off coupon and the 10% off coupon at my disposal.
> 
> I normally wear a 10.5 shoe, and the 10 boots work great- perfect fit with thick wool socks, and looser but still very comfortable with thin athletic socks. I seem to think that I've read that the rubber mocs actually wear a bit larger than the boots, should I size down to a 9 for these? The big problem with the 9 boots was that I couldn't wear wool socks with them, I like the flexibility I have with my current boots and would like to use these with wool socks or sockless, if possible.


I wear an 8.5 and I sized down to a 7 with the mocs. They're just tight enough to wear sockless without slipping off and just loose enough to wear with wool socks without cutting off circulation. Neither fit is ideal for wearing all day but they're convenient so I put up with it.


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> Thanks anyways, I talked to a rep on the LLbean chat on their website, and they suggested I stick with the 10's for the Mocs since the sizing is apparently the same. I'll update when I get them.


That is probably the best advice you can get - from the horse's mouth so to speak. My experience is that the mocs are fit true to size:hence, while I wear an 11 in the boot or 12 if I want it loose and able to take a very heavy sock, I bought the mocs in an 11.5, my normal dress shoe size, and they fit perfectly (and are happily on my feet as I type this).


----------



## Fading Fast

Fading Fast said:


> Has anyone heard of a brand Everlane. I received a catalogue from them yesterday and thought their OCBD looked nice when I checked them out on line (collar too short for a full on roll, but in the picture it has a small one). It's $55, so not expensive or cheap, just wondering if anyone had tried it? This is a link to the shirt on their website:
> 
> https://www.everlane.com/collections/mens-shirts/products/mens-slim-fit-oxford-classic-blue


I have no idea FF. I, too, never heard of this brand until you brought it up, but am sure (fingers crossed) somebody on this forum has heard of them / bought the shirt? Perhaps you should ask your question again as it might have gotten lost amidst Thanksgiving.


----------



## Himself

Duvel said:


> I would just get the 30s and either cinch them with a belt or get them taken in.


I would recommend that too. If you're concerned about bagginess, the JD Slim Fit should work out well. To me they feel like a smaller size with the waist let out.


----------



## Spin Evans

Fading Fast said:


> I have no idea FF. I, too, never heard of this brand until you brought it up, but am sure (fingers crossed) somebody on this forum has heard of them / bought the shirt? Perhaps you should ask your question again as it might have gotten lost amidst Thanksgiving.


:icon_jokercolor:

I haven't had any firsthand experience with Everlane, but I did sign up for their emails right when they first opened. Their original mission was to cut out the middleman, eliminate markup, and sell a different garment a month at <$50. I think they, like most, got out of that pricepoint within the first six months. I have heard that the quality from one reviewer is basically Old Navy level. Here's a writeup on it from Put This On. https://putthison.com/post/35843985840/we-got-it-for-free-everlane-oxford-shirt-review


----------



## orange fury

Fading Fast said:


> That is probably the best advice you can get - from the horse's mouth so to speak. My experience is that the mocs are fit true to size:hence, while I wear an 11 in the boot or 12 if I want it loose and able to take a very heavy sock, I bought the mocs in an 11.5, my normal dress shoe size, and they fit perfectly (and are happily on my feet as I type this).


Actually, I ended up changing my order to size down to a 9. I tried on my size 10 boots unlaced with no socks, and I could barely walk in them- the mocs would've been a disaster I think. We'll see, either way I'll give an update

Edit: correction- I couldn't decide lol, ended up ordering a 9 and a 10, I'll return the one that doesn't fit.


----------



## Fading Fast

Spin Evans said:


> :icon_jokercolor:
> 
> I haven't had any firsthand experience with Everlane, but I did sign up for their emails right when they first opened. Their original mission was to cut out the middleman, eliminate markup, and sell a different garment a month at <$50. I think they, like most, got out of that pricepoint within the first six months. I have heard that the quality from one reviewer is basically Old Navy level. Here's a writeup on it from Put This On. https://putthison.com/post/35843985840/we-got-it-for-free-everlane-oxford-shirt-review


Spin, thank you for the info. The article is a little discouraging, but since my feet have already left the diving board, I'll report back, on the December's acquisition thread, the results of my Everlane dive.

And what an awesome sweater you posted on the WAYW thread.


----------



## Z.J.P

Does anyone have an opinion on Land's End's current offering of dress pants? Are any of them worth trying?


----------



## orange fury

Z.J.P said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on Land's End's current offering of dress pants? Are any of them worth trying?


The flannels are fantastic, I got my pair in the mail and immediately ordered a second pair in the same mid gray color.


----------



## Z.J.P

orange fury said:


> The flannels are fantastic, I got my pair in the mail and immediately ordered a second pair in the same mid gray color.


Are these the wool and poly blend flannels? As seen below:


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> Actually, I ended up changing my order to size down to a 9. I tried on my size 10 boots unlaced with no socks, and I could barely walk in them- the mocs would've been a disaster I think. We'll see, either way I'll give an update
> 
> Edit: correction- I couldn't decide lol, ended up ordering a 9 and a 10, I'll return the one that doesn't fit.


Let's face it, the real problem is two-fold and both are Bean's fault. First, size your shoes to true size. If the all-mighty last produces a size 10, which for historical reasons, was called a nine, then make an announcement that the boots are now true to size and call them a size 10. Second, make half sizes: Bean has enough demand for these to justify more specific sizing.


----------



## hardline_42

Fading Fast said:


> Let's face it, the real problem is two-fold and both are Bean's fault. First, size your shoes to true size. If the all-mighty last produces a size 10, which for historical reasons, was called a nine, then make an announcement that the boots are now true to size and call them a size 10. Second, make half sizes: Bean has enough demand for these to justify more specific sizing.


Bean's sizing is not wrong. It is the way it is to allow the proper air space for the insulating properties it was designed for.


----------



## Fading Fast

hardline_42 said:


> Bean's sizing is not wrong. It is the way it is to allow the proper air space for the insulating properties it was designed for.


Fair point, but they could still carry half sizes. They are a major band with large turnover (many styles are already sold out 'till after Xmas) - they could afford to carry half sizes.


----------



## orange fury

Z.J.P said:


> Are these the wool and poly blend flannels? As seen below:


Yes, those are the ones I have. I also consider myself pretty thin (32 waist/5'11"/155 lbs) and wear more fitted clothing, and LE's tailored fit pants fit me like spandex. The traditional fit works great for me.



Fading Fast said:


> Let's face it, the real problem is two-fold and both are Bean's fault. First, size your shoes to true size. If the all-mighty last produces a size 10, which for historical reasons, was called a nine, then make an announcement that the boots are now true to size and call them a size 10. Second, make half sizes: Bean has enough demand for these to justify more specific sizing.


Agree with both sentiments, especially the half sizes. Hopefully one of the two I ordered will work though


----------



## FLMike

Fading Fast said:


> Fair point, but they could still carry half sizes. They are a major band with large turnover (many styles are already sold out 'till after Xmas) - they could afford to carry half sizes.


Re the sold out styles/sizes, Bean Boots are EXTREMELY trendy right now. They were the second most Googled item going into Black Friday and the official start of the holiday shopping season, according to an article I saw.


----------



## FLMike

hardline_42 said:


> I wear an 8.5 and I sized down to a 7 with the mocs. They're just tight enough to wear sockless without slipping off and just loose enough to wear with wool socks without cutting off circulation. Neither fit is ideal for wearing all day but they're convenient so I put up with it.


OF, I know you already placed your order, but I would echo hardline's comments 100%. I was really surprised by how large the mocs fit. I normally wear 9.5, and ended up getting them in an 8. They are typically worn sockless or with a pair of lightweight wool socks. Of course, I got mine several years ago so their sizing could have changed, for all I know. As trendy as they are right now, I hesitate to wear my Bean boots or mocs lately for fear of looking like I'm trying to fit in with the high school and college kids.


----------



## Tilton

What jacket do I wear with brown herringbone pants?


----------



## Topsider

FLCracka said:


> I hesitate to wear my Bean boots or mocs lately for fear of looking like I'm trying to fit in with the high school and college kids.


You have it backwards. They're the ones trying to fit in.


----------



## orange fury

FLCracka said:


> OF, I know you already placed your order, but I would echo hardline's comments 100%. I was really surprised by how large the mocs fit. I normally wear 9.5, and ended up getting them in an 8. They are typically worn sockless or with a pair of lightweight wool socks. Of course, I got mine several years ago so their sizing could have changed, for all I know. As trendy as they are right now, I hesitate to wear my Bean boots or mocs lately for fear of looking like I'm trying to fit in with the high school and college kids.


On the Mocs, I ordered both because I'm not quite sure how I want them to fit- I'm getting them primarily as spring/summer/fall footwear that I can wear sock less, but I like the idea of being able to wear wool socks with them. My size 10 boots are versatile enough to wear with thick wool socks or thin athletic socks, but when I tried them sock less and unlaced they just seemed overly loose. However, I also remember the 9's were snug with athletic socks and too tight for wool socks. I'm just going to have to see how these fit when they come in.

Per the trendiness: eh, I'm just glad my parents bought mine in mid October for my late November birthday lol. I've wanted some of these since I was a little kid looking through the LL Bean Christmas catalogues we would get every year, just like the field coat and yellow lab I still want (both of which I will get one of these days). Same thing with bow ties- I've always worn them, but they he sudden surge in trendiness when I was in college just made it easier to find them and meant I was "stylish" during that time. I don't know if they're still popular on college campuses, nor do I care. I still love 'em. See crosspost from WAYWT- late 80's/early 90's edition:


----------



## Tilton

On the sizing on Bean mocs - I wear a 13. My mocs are 11. I ditched their insole and have two of my own - a thin SuperFeet for winter wear and a plush, sweat-absorbing Ugg shearling insole for the summer. This is the perfect combo. I can't wear thick, thick socks, but midweight merinos are perfect.


----------



## ajasont

Are corduroy pants fall more casual or formal compared to chino pants? I'd love to wear corduroy pants to work but am unsure if it is too casual. My workplace is business casual but has a relatively strict no jeans and collared dress shirt only policy. Chinos are okay but I am curious if corduroy is considered more casual.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

ajasont said:


> Are corduroy pants fall more casual or formal compared to chino pants? I'd love to wear corduroy pants to work but am unsure if it is too casual. My workplace is business casual but has a relatively strict no jeans and collared dress shirt only policy. Chinos are okay but I am curious if corduroy is considered more casual.


You could get corduroy trousers, with or without pleats, or cuffs. These would probably have a higher rise than 5-pocket corduroys, which are usually cut like jeans (tighter on the hips, lower rise, etc.). I can't imagine that such trousers wouldn't be acceptable where chinos are. LLBean carries both patterns; check the web site.

Also check this -- https://www.cordings.co.uk/menswear/trousers/corduroy -- for some ideas. These looks are certainly "dressy" by American standards.


----------



## L-feld

SlideGuitarist said:


> You could get corduroy trousers, with or without pleats, or cuffs. These would probably have a higher rise than 5-pocket corduroys, which are usually cut like jeans (tighter on the hips, lower rise, etc.). I can't imagine that such trousers wouldn't be acceptable where chinos are. LLBean carries both patterns; check the web site.
> 
> Also check this -- https://www.cordings.co.uk/menswear/trousers/corduroy -- for some ideas. These looks are certainly "dressy" by American standards.


Yeah, I would second this. Proper trouser-make cords are equivalent in formality to khakis. The narrower the wale, the dressier, so I would probably recommend 11 wale or thinner if you're concerned.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## ajasont

L-feld said:


> Yeah, I would second this. Proper trouser-make cords are equivalent in formality to khakis. The narrower the wale, the dressier, so I would probably recommend 11 wale or thinner if you're concerned.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk





SlideGuitarist said:


> You could get corduroy trousers, with or without pleats, or cuffs. These would probably have a higher rise than 5-pocket corduroys, which are usually cut like jeans (tighter on the hips, lower rise, etc.). I can't imagine that such trousers wouldn't be acceptable where chinos are. LLBean carries both patterns; check the web site.
> 
> Also check this -- https://www.cordings.co.uk/menswear/trousers/corduroy -- for some ideas. These looks are certainly "dressy" by American standards.


Thanks to you both. I'll definitely check out LL Bean's selection next opportunity I get. Hopefully I can find some narrow enough.


----------



## zeppacoustic

How often should I hand-wash wool Merino, Shetland, and silk/cashmere blend sweaters? These are always worn over an OCBD/etc. I sweat an average amount. No soiling of sweaters noticeable thus far.


----------



## RT-Bone

Does anyone know of a good source for flannel lined chinos that are similar in fit to the Jack Donnelly Dalton slim fit?


----------



## Howard

I have a question about two suits I have now and I'm not sure if they're sport jackets or blazers, maybe if you could help me identify them by name: One is *Lazetti Couture* and the other is a *Nautica*, Thanks.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

ajasont said:


> Thanks to you both. I'll definitely check out LL Bean's selection next opportunity I get. Hopefully I can find some narrow enough.


My guess is that you would be fine in wide wale cords unless your work is dressier than I am imagining. However, there is nothing wrong narrow wale. They are dressier just not as comfortable. I included a few links below. Hope this helps.

LL Bean 14 Wale Dress Cords (I want a pair in Adobe. Wish they were wide wale):

Lands End 18 Wale:


----------



## ajasont

oxford cloth button down said:


> My guess is that you would be fine in wide wale cords unless your work is dressier than I am imagining. However, there is nothing wrong narrow wale. They are dressier just not as comfortable. I included a few links below. Hope this helps.
> 
> LL Bean 14 Wale Dress Cords (I want a pair in Adobe. Wish they were wide wale):
> 
> Lands End 18 Wale:


I did not know narrower wales were considered more uncomfortable. I will definitely try to find a store to give a few different widths a try now. Thanks


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

ajasont said:


> I did not know narrower wales were considered more uncomfortable. I will definitely try to find a store to give a few different widths a try now. Thanks


I don't know if I find them less comfortable. They do tend to wrinkle a bit more.


----------



## DLW

I'm not sure if I should post this question in this forum, but would like input from members who have a better eye in these maters than I would. I found this sweater out thrifting in the men section, my mistake and I should know that staff does not always get it right. I found out after a search on eBay it is not a man's but a women's, a tag was missing. I like the sweater; will I be able to get away with wearing it? Does it look too feminine? I've included a man's sweater in a similar pattern as well a women's sweater like this, current auctions. What is the juries' verdict? Should I donate back to the thrift?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LL-Bean-Wool-Nordic-Zipper-Cardigan-Womens-Medium-M-Camel-
/251737748866?pt=US_CSA_WC_Sweaters&hash=item3a9cbd3582


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I don't know if I find them less comfortable. They do tend to wrinkle a bit more.


I should clarify. In my experience the narrower the wale the more velvet feeling the cords have. I do not like the sensation of soft velvet not that they are uncomfortable. They are much dressier than wide wale cords.


----------



## Roycru

Howard said:


> I have a question about two suits I have now and I'm not sure if they're sport jackets or blazers, maybe if you could help me identify them by name: One is *Lazetti Couture* and the other is a *Nautica*, Thanks.


It might be easier for people to answer this question if you posted pictures of your unidentified wearable objects.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

oxford cloth button down said:


> I should clarify. In my experience the narrower the wale the more velvet feeling the cords have. I do not like the sensation of soft velvet not that they are uncomfortable. They are much dressier than wide wale cords.


They drape very differently, in my experience. I think I get what you're saying, but it's tricky to express. Thin-wale cords also seem much lighter weight.

Oddly, I find moleskin feels more like wide-wale cord than thin wale -- I think the weight is the thing there, too.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> They drape very differently, in my experience. I think I get what you're saying, but it's tricky to express. Thin-wale cords also seem much lighter weight.
> 
> Oddly, I find moleskin feels more like wide-wale cord than thin wale -- I think the weight is the thing there, too.


Obviously we're in subjective territory here, but: I don't like the way that 19- or 21-wale corduroy feels, either. It's velvety-soft, and flops around a lot on a tall person (I suppose you could get a big cuff). It seems like corduroy that wants to be not-corduroy. You may as well get cold-weather trousers that have enough weight to 1, drape nicely; 2, keep your legs warm.


----------



## Howard

Roycru said:


> It might be easier for people to answer this question if you posted pictures of your unidentified wearable objects.


Ok I sure will.

This here is a Nautica.









and this here is a Lazetti Couture.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Howard said:


> Ok I sure will.
> 
> This here is a Nautica.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and this here is a Lazetti Couture.


The Nautica has gold buttons and is, therefore, a blazer. The other could be a suit coat if it has matching pants or a Sport Coat (Sport Jacket is the same thing).


----------



## phyrpowr

Tweed McVay said:


> I'm not sure if I should post this question in this forum, but would like input from members who have a better eye in these maters than I would. I found this sweater out thrifting in the men section, my mistake and I should know that staff does not always get it right. I found out after a search on eBay it is not a man's but a women's, a tag was missing. I like the sweater; will I be able to get away with wearing it? Does it look too feminine? I've included a man's sweater in a similar pattern as well a women's sweater like this, current auctions. What is the juries' verdict? Should I donate back to the thrift?
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/LL-Bean-Wool-Nordic-Zipper-Cardigan-Womens-Medium-M-Camel-
> /251737748866?pt=US_CSA_WC_Sweaters&hash=item3a9cbd3582


I don't see anything feminine about that sweater, even if they do offer it in women's sizes. I say wear it in good health


----------



## Roycru

Another option in corduroy trousers are Cordarounds, where the wales are horizontal rather than vertical......

https://www.betabrand.com/collections/cordarounds.html


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Roycru said:


> Another option in corduroy trousers are Cordarounds, where the wales are horizontal rather than vertical......
> 
> https://www.betabrand.com/collections/cordarounds.html


They say they are "less likely to cause crotch combustion than common corduroy." I guess that's a big selling point!


----------



## Howard

Nobleprofessor said:


> The Nautica has gold buttons and is, therefore, a blazer. The other could be a suit coat if it has matching pants or a Sport Coat (Sport Jacket is the same thing).


Thanks, Noble.


----------



## L-feld

SlideGuitarist said:


> Obviously we're in subjective territory here, but: I don't like the way that 19- or 21-wale corduroy feels, either. It's velvety-soft, and flops around a lot on a tall person (I suppose you could get a big cuff). It seems like corduroy that wants to be not-corduroy. You may as well get cold-weather trousers that have enough weight to 1, drape nicely; 2, keep your legs warm.


Yeah, I'm very partial to 11 wale corduroy, which I think is right smack dab in the middle. It's wide enough to feel thick, soft of warm, but narrow enough to wear with a tweed jacket and not feel goofy.

I think they're just about Goldilocks perfect.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

zeppacoustic said:


> How often should I hand-wash wool Merino, Shetland, and silk/cashmere blend sweaters? These are always worn over an OCBD/etc. I sweat an average amount. No soiling of sweaters noticeable thus far.


The less, the better, in my opinion. If they're not soiled, they don't need washing.

The beauty of wool is that it's very resilient and doesn't retain odors. I have wool sweaters that have been worn for four seasons without one wash. The point of wearing a shirt with collar and sleeves is to have a washable "sanitary" layer between your skin and your woolens.

Curious to see others' opinions, here.


----------



## Spin Evans

https://www.unabashedlyprep.com/site/entry/down-the-line/

What if you wear a sweater as an undershirt? :icon_jokercolor::icon_jokercolor::icon_jokercolor:

(sorry folks, couldn't resist)


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

Oof. Wash as often as an undershirt, then? Dunno.


----------



## blairrob

Tourist Trophy Garage said:


> I have wool sweaters that have been worn for four seasons without one wash.


Your dinner invitation has been _officially_ rescinded.

On the other hand, I completely agree. Caring for wool sweaters is like checking food in the refrigerator; if it smells fine and looks fine, it's good to go. Forget about the best before date, or in this case, how many days you have worn it. Don't over-wash a good sweater.


----------



## orange fury

Spin Evans said:


> https://www.unabashedlyprep.com/site/entry/down-the-line/
> 
> What if you wear a sweater as an undershirt? :icon_jokercolor::icon_jokercolor::icon_jokercolor:
> 
> (sorry folks, couldn't resist)


Oh, Castleberry. You know, I actually like a lot of his early stuff ("GTH ankles" and all that), but recently it just seems contrived. I think it started around the time he had the "painters jeans" post.


----------



## Reuben

Spin Evans said:


> What if you wear a sweater as an undershirt? :icon_jokercolor::icon_jokercolor::icon_jokercolor:
> 
> (sorry folks, couldn't resist)


Then I'd watch out for chafed nipples.


----------



## Duvel

Yes, this seems to happen to bloggers who are more fashion- than style-oriented. Once they've covered the basics, there's not much else unless they can push the envelop and start experimenting, which usually means odd things like sweaters as undergarments.



orange fury said:


> Oh, Castleberry. You know, I actually like a lot of his early stuff ("GTH ankles" and all that), but recently it just seems contrived. I think it started around the time he had the "painters jeans" post.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Yes, this seems to happen to bloggers who are more fashion- than style-oriented. Once they've covered the basics, there's not much else unless they can push the envelop and start experimenting, which usually means odd things like sweaters as undergarments.


Great point. I also think it explains the craziness that happens at most fashion companies (even Polo if you look at its runway stuff): they need to push the envelope to get attention / do something new / etc.

What is so wonderful about the Ivy / Trad heyday is that for a few decades the parameters were established (hence, not too much envelope pushing or craziness) and all the interesting change took place in the details (hooked vents, modest lapel width change, a buckle back, add a new color to the shetland sweater options, etc.).

It was all about refining and tweaking an established look and not about a entirely new fashion ethos.


----------



## MythReindeer

I just got a thrifted blazer back from the tailor. The sleeve buttons were reattached securely, but given that I am not a statue they come in contact with each other during the day. This produces a...rattle (?) that I find unpleasant. I feel like I'm wearing bangles, which is a perfectly fine thing to do but is not something that interests me. The buttons feel light, maybe hollow. Is this normal?


----------



## Duvel

Not really normal. Were they sewn back too close together?



MythReindeer said:


> I just got a thrifted blazer back from the tailor. The sleeve buttons were reattached securely, but given that I am not a statue they come in contact with each other during the day. This produces a...rattle (?) that I find unpleasant. I feel like I'm wearing bangles, which is a perfectly fine thing to do but is not something that interests me. The buttons feel light, maybe hollow. Is this normal?


----------



## Eric W S

zeppacoustic said:


> How often should I hand-wash wool Merino, Shetland, and silk/cashmere blend sweaters? These are always worn over an OCBD/etc. I sweat an average amount. No soiling of sweaters noticeable thus far.


Yearly. Put This On the blog has a great primer for washing woolens. Follow the advice on using a good conditioner and even Shetlands come out buttery soft and oils replenished. Lanolin is also great.


----------



## Eric W S

MythReindeer said:


> I just got a thrifted blazer back from the tailor. The sleeve buttons were reattached securely, but given that I am not a statue they come in contact with each other during the day. This produces a...rattle (?) that I find unpleasant. I feel like I'm wearing bangles, which is a perfectly fine thing to do but is not something that interests me. The buttons feel light, maybe hollow. Is this normal?


Could be. Sometimes refered to as kissing buttons. Usually see them on surgeon's cuff from back in the day. Easy fix if it annoys you and have the tailor make the buttons functional.


----------



## Duvel

Really? I would do this if a sweater was smelly. Why otherwise, though?



Eric W S said:


> Yearly. Put This On the blog has a great primer for washing woolens. Follow the advice on using a good conditioner and even Shetlands come out buttery soft and oils replenished. Lanolin is also great.


----------



## Eric W S

Duvel said:


> Really? I would do this if a sweater was smelly. Why otherwise, though?


Woolens soil just like any other garment. They also dry out a bit as the lanolin and oils wear away. So, a quick wash will cleanse the wool and any hair conditioner will soften and remoisturize it. I use Kheil's Amino Acid Conditioner and some lanolin on my Shetlands. each time they get a bit softer. Just be measure the sweater so you can block it correctly when drying. You can also shrink them a bit with judicious use of the dryer as well. In between sizes with Bill's New England sweaters so I shrank the XL down just a tad. OCBD had a post on doing something similar ages ago...


----------



## MythReindeer

Rather close, yes. The blazer has four sleeve buttons. I could get rid of one and space the other three a bit apart. Or I suppose I could space out the four, but that seems like it might be too much real estate. Three or four? This seems like a vein ripe for bickering.

To be fair, straight from the thrift store it was even worse. I thought they were simply loose and asked for a firm reattachment after sleeve alteration.



Duvel said:


> Not really normal. Were they sewn back too close together?


----------



## ThePopinjay

MythReindeer said:


> Rather close, yes. The blazer has four sleeve buttons. I could get rid of one and space the other three a bit apart. Or I suppose I could space out the four, but that seems like it might be too much real estate. Three or four? This seems like a vein ripe for bickering.
> 
> To be fair, straight from the thrift store it was even worse. I thought they were simply loose and asked for a firm reattachment after sleeve alteration.


Most of my blazers have 3. I really prefer two buttons though, which is how all my tweeds are.


----------



## orange fury

ajasont said:


> Are corduroy pants fall more casual or formal compared to chino pants? I'd love to wear corduroy pants to work but am unsure if it is too casual. My workplace is business casual but has a relatively strict no jeans and collared dress shirt only policy. Chinos are okay but I am curious if corduroy is considered more casual.


Im a little late to this, but cords should be fine for a workplace. I have a range of wide wale to narrow wale cords, and I prefer the wide wale. Like has already been said, narrow wale feels a little to velvety- I actually find the fabric relatively stiff. My preference is toward wider wale cords.


----------



## orange fury

MythReindeer said:


> Rather close, yes. The blazer has four sleeve buttons. I could get rid of one and space the other three a bit apart. Or I suppose I could space out the four, but that seems like it might be too much real estate. Three or four? This seems like a vein ripe for bickering.
> 
> To be fair, straight from the thrift store it was even worse. I thought they were simply loose and asked for a firm reattachment after sleeve alteration.





ThePopinjay said:


> Most of my blazers have 3. I really prefer two buttons though, which is how all my tweeds are.


I'm a little OCD I guess, but I prefer my 2 button jackets to have either 2 or 4 sleeve buttons, and my 3 button jackets to have either 1 or 3 buttons. Even numbers and odd numbers


----------



## orange fury

Trad-ish said:


> I hope it works out for you, OF. I couldn't get a pair of mocs that worked. I may have to try the gumshoes instead.





hardline_42 said:


> I wear an 8.5 and I sized down to a 7 with the mocs. They're just tight enough to wear sockless without slipping off and just loose enough to wear with wool socks without cutting off circulation. Neither fit is ideal for wearing all day but they're convenient so I put up with it.





Fading Fast said:


> That is probably the best advice you can get - from the horse's mouth so to speak. My experience is that the mocs are fit true to size:hence, while I wear an 11 in the boot or 12 if I want it loose and able to take a very heavy sock, I bought the mocs in an 11.5, my normal dress shoe size, and they fit perfectly (and are happily on my feet as I type this).


Mocs came in today, sending the 10's back (WAY too big). The 9's are slightly loose without socks but fit perfect with thick socks (so they're versatile, like I was looking for). So I'm officially a 9 in the mocs and a 10 in the boots.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

ThePopinjay said:


> Most of my blazers have 3. I really prefer two buttons though, which is how all my tweeds are.


I prefer two as well.


----------



## UnivStripe

There are shirts on the Orvis website that have a 'single button-through patch pocket'. I am not a fan of this feature but I am interested if anyone knows if this is a trad feature or the origin of this stye of pocket.


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> Mocs came in today, sending the 10's back (WAY too big). The 9's are slightly loose without socks but fit perfect with thick socks (so they're versatile, like I was looking for). So I'm officially a 9 in the mocs and a 10 in the boots.


They look great and now that you know your size, you are good for future orders.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Though keep in mind,
LL Bean Boots/Mocs are recraftable! No need to buy a new pair.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Though keep in mind,
> LL Bean Boots/Mocs are recraftable! No need to buy a new pair.


Great point, I had two of my girlfriend's boots redrafted this summer and they came back in incredible shape. That said, I can alway find a another iteration of the Bean boot that I want to buy (even though my boot needs have easily been met). For example, for no practical reason whatsoever, I want a pair of the "red brick bottom" boots they've been showing "from their archives" the last couple of years. Space, budget and some thin thread of self-control are the only reasons I haven't pulled the trigger yet (but I will).


----------



## eagle2250

^^
So very many of us feel/share your pain! LOL.


----------



## shipworthy

Do you mean a pocket flap? I'm not sure of the origin historically but the flap on an OCBD pocket is a detail that is now associated with J Press but occasionally reproduced by other groups to establish "instant trad cred" (a la Gant by Michael Bastian).



UnivStripe said:


> There are shirts on the Orvis website that have a 'single button-through patch pocket'. I am not a fan of this feature but I am interested if anyone knows if this is a trad feature or the origin of this stye of pocket.


----------



## Tilton

shipworthy said:


> Do you mean a pocket flap? I'm not sure of the origin historically but the flap on an OCBD pocket is a detail that is now associated with J Press but occasionally reproduced by other groups to establish "instant trad cred" (a la Gant by Michael Bastian).


No, the Orvis shirts are not flap pocket. Their most casual shirts have a button through the top hem of the shirt pocket.

I have a lot of Orvis casual shirts and I've never had an issue with them. I usually leave them unbuttoned as I frequently put my cellphone in my shirt pocket. When unbuttoned, you can't tell there's a button or buttonhole there.


----------



## Duvel

I'm sure this question has been asked before, and I admit I have not done a search. At the same time, I didn't want to clog up the forum with a thread dedicated to it, as I'm sure it's a fairly frivolous concern. Nonetheless, here goes.

Tie space. Specifically, the gap between collar leaves, and more specifically, with an OCBD such as a Brooks dress shirt. How much should there be, ideally (or not be)? I have seen huge variation, not only here on this forum but elsewhere in the electronic and real worlds. I tend to have a good inch or so with by Brooks oxfords.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel, 

For me, it can vary depending on the tie width, the lapel width, the type of collar and the overall feel of the interaction of all the parts. How is that for a completely unhelpful answer? But, I was serious in that, for example, if I have a narrower tie (not super skinny but maybe 3"), then I'll want a narrower lapel (I love the "rule" that the lapel and tie width should match, but my life doesn't afford such exactness as my white wine sits in my regular refrigerator at whatever temperature "medium" is versus a wine refrigerator with a digital read), a smaller tie knot, and the space between the tie and collar to also be narrower or, to my eye, it is out of balance. 

That's what I got, but I'll be checking back as I know there are more experienced people on this thread who will have better answers.


----------



## orange fury

Christmas parties and New Years parties are quickly approaching (one tomorrow, in fact). I saw this combo in my closet and wondered if it might work for a night time event with a white shirt and bow tie of some color:



My first inclination would be that it doesn't work (and normally I would wear this with a black tie rig), but I know I've seen black watch trousers with a dinner jacket as a holiday black tie ensemble in the past. That was also with black dinner jackets, not a blue one. So yeah, thoughts appreciated.


----------



## Spin Evans

The jacket has so much going on in itself (blue, velvet, shawl collar) that it needs to be reigned in with a more restrained rig. Moreover, I would caution against wearing blackwatch trousers with black tie unless they are genuine tuxedo pants with a satin stripe...though some people do disregard that.

Some of the best Christmas outfits I've seen are from Gamma last year (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...ad-What-are-you-Wearing&p=1486853#post1486853) and Joe Tradly, back in the day (https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...-Tartans-make-their-debut&p=459516#post459516). I believe I also remember someone wearing a pair of blackwatch trousers, a simple BB#1 stripe bowtie (red, of course), and a navy sweater tied around the shoulders. Simple, but oh-so-effective.


----------



## Jovan

Duvel said:


> I'm sure this question has been asked before, and I admit I have not done a search. At the same time, I didn't want to clog up the forum with a thread dedicated to it, as I'm sure it's a fairly frivolous concern. Nonetheless, here goes.
> 
> Tie space. Specifically, the gap between collar leaves, and more specifically, with an OCBD such as a Brooks dress shirt. How much should there be, ideally (or not be)? I have seen huge variation, not only here on this forum but elsewhere in the electronic and real worlds. I tend to have a good inch or so with by Brooks oxfords.


The BB OCBD has about 3/8" of tie space.


----------



## Peak and Pine

orange fury said:


>


What exactly is that? It looks great. It also looks to be velvet and midnight blue and it also looks to be more of a smoking or club jacket than tux and yeah, particularly if it's blue, it would pair well with the black watch and if treating as a club jacket, then no tie. Go ahead, wear that, hang out under the mistle toe and pucker up.


----------



## Jovan

I would wear them with actual evening trousers. But I'm pretty sure no one else is going to call him on the braid-less Black Watch trousers but us. Even then I'd treat everything else as you would a normal black tie outfit, just to keep it from getting too crazy.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Orange, I'd be on board with that, but I think it demands a black bowtie, and I think you might want to experiment with a non-tuxedo shirt.


----------



## Duvel

Thank you, Fading Fast and Jovan. Measuring this morning, I find that I get something closer to 5/8" or 3/4".


----------



## orange fury

Peak and Pine said:


> What exactly is that? It looks great. It also looks to be velvet and midnight blue and it also looks to be more of a smoking or club jacket than tux and yeah, particularly if it's blue, it would pair well with the black watch and if treating as a club jacket, then no tie. Go ahead, wear that, hang out under the mistle toe and pucker up.


Thanks, it's a midnight blue-ish velvet DJ with satin lapels by Bonobos- it's as close to a smoking jacket as I'll probably get lol. This is a better approximation of the color:
https://s276.photobucket.com/user/o...6-4AF1-BB7E-265B2202D586_zpsyadzu0zi.jpg.html


----------



## orange fury

Second question for today, need an opinion:

Mrs OF and I have her company's Christmas party at a country club tonight. I'm wearing the black watch pants posted above with a navy doeskin blazer and white French cuff shirt. What bow tie? I was thinking navy with white pindots (more dressy), but I was also thinking red with white pindots (more seasonal). Or something else? Thoughts appreciated.


----------



## ThePopinjay

orange fury said:


> Second question for today, need an opinion:
> 
> Mrs OF and I have her company's Christmas party at a country club tonight. I'm wearing the black watch pants posted above with a navy doeskin blazer and white French cuff shirt. What bow tie? I was thinking navy with white pindots (more dressy), but I was also thinking red with white pindots (more seasonal). Or something else? Thoughts appreciated.


I don't think you can go wrong with either of the two you mentioned.


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> Second question for today, need an opinion:
> 
> Mrs OF and I have her company's Christmas party at a country club tonight. I'm wearing the black watch pants posted above with a navy doeskin blazer and white French cuff shirt. What bow tie? I was thinking navy with white pindots (more dressy), but I was also thinking red with white pindots (more seasonal). Or something else? Thoughts appreciated.


As PJ said, either will work very well, but you had the answer all along, as you said, the red with white dots will evoke Christmas more.


----------



## Spin Evans

Whichever you choose, I would love to see pics!


----------



## orange fury

Spin Evans said:


> Whichever you choose, I would love to see pics!


I just posted over in WAYWT coincidentally (I went with the navy one)


----------



## Bama87

Hickey-Freeman LTD. Belk. How do y'all feel about the quality to buy this and have it altered to fit. Seems too be mostly shorting the arms and overall lengthy about .5" max. Will be looking around for quotes to do this tomorrow, but if most seem to think this isn't the coat/maker/material to do this I'd pass.


----------



## Duvel

I don't know why I continue to ponder this. Unless it's because I'm crazy. Well, that must be the reason! Tie space in the OCBD. I see everything from no space, i.e., the collar leaves form a neat triangle at the top of the tie and touch, to about a 1-inch gap between the leaves. Is there an ideal, a standard, a preference? Does anybody else even give a damn?


----------



## L-feld

I have a holiday party tomorrow. I was thinking about wearing the following: Navy flannel blazer, blue OCBD, red Stewart tartan flannel trousers, and Argyl & Sutherland bow tie. The tie and the trousers have the same colors - red, navy, gold, forest green. Is it a faux pas to combine the two, since they are both representative of different heraldry or whatever? Or should I not care, since I'm in the USA and who cares about Scottish royalty when you're in the Republic, especially when wearing GTH pants?

If people don't know what I'm talking about, I can post pictures.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Was thinking about putting in an offer on these MacNeils, but they look a little rough. What do you all think, could I get these things looking presentable with a little TLC?


----------



## yoshi

L-feld said:


> I have a holiday party tomorrow. I was thinking about wearing the following: Navy flannel blazer, blue OCBD, red Stewart tartan flannel trousers, and Argyl & Sutherland bow tie. The tie and the trousers have the same colors - red, navy, gold, forest green. Is it a faux pas to combine the two, since they are both representative of different heraldry or whatever? Or should I not care, since I'm in the USA and who cares about Scottish royalty when you're in the Republic, especially when wearing GTH pants?
> 
> If people don't know what I'm talking about, I can post pictures.


Sounds like a great rig to me. Be sure to get pictures for us.


----------



## FLMike

L-feld said:


> I have a holiday party tomorrow. I was thinking about wearing the following: Navy flannel blazer, blue OCBD, red Stewart tartan flannel trousers, and Argyl & Sutherland bow tie. The tie and the trousers have the same colors - red, navy, gold, forest green. Is it a faux pas to combine the two, since they are both representative of different heraldry or whatever? Or should I not care, since I'm in the USA and who cares about Scottish royalty when you're in the Republic, especially when wearing GTH pants?
> 
> If people don't know what I'm talking about, I can post pictures.


A pic would probably help, but I don't think I'd pair stewart tartan trousers with an A&S tie. It just seems like a pattern/color clash, or maybe just too busy, in my mind (without actually seeing it). I typically wear my blackwatch trousers sans tie, but if I had to pick a tie, I would probably go with churchill dots or a Christmas emblematic. I could be wrong....again, a pic would help settle the matter. In my minds eye, though, it's not working.


----------



## Reuben

L-feld said:


> I have a holiday party tomorrow. I was thinking about wearing the following: Navy flannel blazer, blue OCBD, red Stewart tartan flannel trousers, and Argyl & Sutherland bow tie. The tie and the trousers have the same colors - red, navy, gold, forest green. Is it a faux pas to combine the two, since they are both representative of different heraldry or whatever? Or should I not care, since I'm in the USA and who cares about Scottish royalty when you're in the Republic, especially when wearing GTH pants?
> 
> If people don't know what I'm talking about, I can post pictures.





FLCracka said:


> A pic would probably help, but I don't think I'd pair stewart tartan trousers with an A&S tie. It just seems like a pattern/color clash, or maybe just too busy, in my mind (without actually seeing it). I typically wear my blackwatch trousers sans tie, but if I had to pick a tie, I would probably go with churchill dots or a Christmas emblematic. I could be wrong....again, a pic would help settle the matter. In my minds eye, though, it's not working.


I'm going to have to agree, this just doesn't seem like a combination that'll work to me. The colors seem like they'll be a little too close to each other and the patterns may be too close in scale. Care to post a picture of the bow and the trousers together?


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Royal Stewart trousers or "trews" have their roots in military dress and would be worn with a military dress jacket. Attempting to add a patterned tie becomes difficult, especially with a busy tartan like RS. I would recommend a solid red or navy tie. A Royal Stewart tie would work also, but might be too much tartan for your taste. Either way, I would not pair an AS tie with those trousers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## L-feld

So how about something simple like a navy Chipp dog tie? Or should I go for something red?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## mhj

How should wide wale cords be finished? Cuffs/no break or longer?


----------



## FLMike

L-feld said:


> So how about something simple like a navy Chipp dog tie? Or should I go for something red?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The Chipp dog tie sounds good, but I'd still like some visuals.


----------



## RT-Bone

mhj said:


> How should wide wale cords be finished? Cuffs/no break or longer?


I actually came here to post the exact same question. I ask because I feel have seen it done both ways on this board, so I know both are acceptable - more curious about opinions one way or the other.


----------



## L-feld

I'll have something more complete when my wife is finished getting dressed


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Spin Evans

I was skeptical when you mentioned the dog tie, but I absolutely love how well it pairs.


----------



## FLMike

I think those dogs will hunt. Also, I think I would prefer a white OCBD over a blue one with that rig.


----------



## L-feld

Ah, I ended up doimg the blue, dinner was at 6. I'm sure I will drag this out for at least one more holiday pqrty, so I will have to try the white OCBD next time, with a similar tie.


----------



## Orgetorix

Bama87 said:


> Hickey-Freeman LTD. Belk. How do y'all feel about the quality to buy this and have it altered to fit. Seems too be mostly shorting the arms and overall lengthy about .5" max. Will be looking around for quotes to do this tomorrow, but if most seem to think this isn't the coat/maker/material to do this I'd pass.


Don't buy any jacket where the overall length needs to be shortened. Just don't. It can be done, but it's expensive, easy to mess up, and easy to come out with a jacket that looks weird. If you come across an uber-rare Kiton suit woven from extra-virgin unicorn hair AND you know you'll never find another one AND it fits you perfectly everywhere else AND you have a world-class alterations tailor who says he can do it...then maybe. But not for a Hickey Freeman.


----------



## Bama87

Orgetorix said:


> Don't buy any jacket where the overall length needs to be shortened. Just don't. It can be done, but it's expensive, easy to mess up, and easy to come out with a jacket that looks weird. If you come across an uber-rare Kiton suit woven from extra-virgin unicorn hair AND you know you'll never find another one AND it fits you perfectly everywhere else AND you have a world-class alterations tailor who says he can do it...then maybe. But not for a Hickey Freeman.


Thank you. I was very close to going to buy it today.

BTW, I just found your blog last week and find the "How To Thrift" series very helpful. So thank you for that.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Jeez Louise, it's never been that much of a problem for me...haven't had to give it much thought! Alas, perhaps I've got an even bigger problem than determining the most effective way of adjusting my "cummerbund"eek. LOL.


----------



## MythReindeer

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Jeez Louise, it's never been that much of a problem for me...haven't had to give it much thought! Alas, perhaps I've got an even bigger problem than determining the most effective way of adjusting my "cummerbund"eek. LOL.


I rarely have reason to wear a tuxedo, but I ended up in one this weekend and realized I had no recollection of visiting the facilities in one. (It's happened, of course, but I had no reflexive memory of going through the motions.) I don't see what else one could do--remove the thing?--but I thought I'd ask.


----------



## loarbmhs

Just wait til you get home. 



MythReindeer said:


> So, black tie-wearing gents, how do YOU urinate while wearing a cummerbund? Shimmy it up, do the business, shimmy back down?


----------



## orange fury

MythReindeer said:


> So, black tie-wearing gents, how do YOU urinate while wearing a cummerbund? Shimmy it up, do the business, shimmy back down?


Pretend you're an astronaut :devil:


----------



## Jovan

Why can I not find the original post by MythReindeer?

The solution is to use your fly like usual. Not trying to be rude, but what am I missing that would make this difficult?


----------



## MythReindeer

Jovan said:


> Why can I not find the original post by MythReindeer?
> 
> The solution is to use your fly like usual. Not trying to be rude, but what am I missing that would make this difficult?


It seems to have been deleted. I asked flippantly, but did not mean to offend. I'll try to keep my more coarse tendencies in check in the future.

To your question: it's silly, but I didn't know if people removed the cummerbund, shimmied it upward, spun it around, etc. It was just a weird thought that occupied me while I was...attending to other matters.


----------



## orange fury

Need an opinion. Office Christmas party tomorrow, and it'll be cool enough for the inaugural wearing of my Christmas tartan Bill's cords. Basically wearing the cords, a white shirt, navy Corbin blazer, and black loafers:


need an opinion on a bow tie. These are the four I was thinking of using, I'm leaning more towards the top two but wanted to get another set of eyes on it:


----------



## Fading Fast

OF, my choices would be in order, upper left, lower right, upper right and go back to upper left. The tone in the red one seems too bright compared with the muted tones of the rest of the outfit. The gold one could have that issue, but it seems less bright and I like that it picks up a small accent color in the cords. Have fun at the party.


----------



## PaultheSwede

What is this forums thoughts about denim with a tweed jacket?


----------



## zeppacoustic

Anyone notice that BB shirt sleeve lengths run a little big compared to other makers? I am a 34 in pretty much everything except Brooks (33).


----------



## orange fury

zeppacoustic said:


> Anyone notice that BB shirt sleeve lengths run a little big compared to other makers? I am a 34 in pretty much everything except Brooks (33).


On the must iron OCBD, I've found that ordering a neck size up but my actual sleeve length works best to account for shrinkage- I'm normally a 15x34, but in Brooks extra slim fit OCBD (the 529q, I think), I'm a 15.5x34.


----------



## orange fury

PaultheSwede said:


> What is this forums thoughts about denim with a tweed jacket?


I think it could be done, but I wouldn't do it personally. But then, I rarely wear denim, so I may not be a good person to ask lol


----------



## knucklehead

Are there any alternatives to the Barbour Beaufort for a taller, long-armed guy? I'm 6'2" with a 35" sleeve and can't find a darn thing.


----------



## Duvel

knucklehead, it seems to me you just need to do a Large Tall or the equivalent thereof. Your height and sleeve length are hardly abnormal. I'm only an inch shorter, take a 34 or 35 sleeve, and I fit well into 42 and 44Rs, or Larges, otherwise, in many cases. Just try stuff on.



knucklehead said:


> Are there any alternatives to the Barbour Beaufort for a taller, long-armed guy? I'm 6'2" with a 35" sleeve and can't find a darn thing.


----------



## zeppacoustic

orange fury said:


> On the must iron OCBD, I've found that ordering a neck size up but my actual sleeve length works best to account for shrinkage- I'm normally a 15x34, but in Brooks extra slim fit OCBD (the 529q, I think), I'm a 15.5x34.


Huh. I also wear the extra slim fit, both OCBD and pinpoints (16 x 33). All other dress shirts I wear 16 x 34.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> knucklehead, it seems to me you just need to do a Large Tall or the equivalent thereof. Your height and sleeve length are hardly abnormal. I'm only an inch shorter, take a 34 or 35 sleeve, and I fit well into 42 and 44Rs, or Larges, otherwise, in many cases. Just try stuff on.


Before reading the quoted post and seeing the username, I thought you were just calling someone a knucklehead, I was like "man, Duvel really doesn't like that guy!" Lol


----------



## blairrob

knucklehead said:


> Are there any alternatives to the Barbour Beaufort for a taller, long-armed guy? I'm 6'2" with a 35" sleeve and can't find a darn thing.





Duvel said:


> knucklehead, it seems to me you just need to do a Large Tall or the equivalent thereof. Your height and sleeve length are hardly abnormal. I'm only an inch shorter, take a 34 or 35 sleeve, and I fit well into 42 and 44Rs, or Larges, otherwise, in many cases. Just try stuff on.


Yes, a large tall should work assuming your torso and legs are reasonably proportionate. I'm a touch over 6' 2" with a 35 1/4 inch sleeve and it works well for me.


----------



## knucklehead

Thanks guys! I had no idea that Barbour made large talls.


----------



## orange fury

So I received one of my exchanged Brooks OCBD's in the mail today. I had returned the original because a wad of white thread came out of the middle of the chest, leaving a blue stripe. I thought it was an isolated event, but I pulled my new one out of the box just now, and this wad of thread is in the middle of the chest above the pocket-



Anyone else have this issue with Brooks OCBD's? Trying to pull the last one out is what cause the blue stripe, should I leave this alone or try to exchange it for a third time?

Edit: answered my own question. No joke, I turned the shirt over to get a look at the backside of the fabric, and the slight stretching of the fabric (ie, normal movement) worked the end of the thread out of the fabric. Looks like this is getting exchanged yet again:


----------



## gamma68

^ Yes, I have had this same issue with BB shirts. As noted in another thread a while back, this trend indicates a quality control issue for BB. Don't tell me they don't have a problem, because they do. These shirts are too expensive for these flaws to occur. BB needs to get its act together.


----------



## 41Lexington

I asked this in the OCBD pricing thread, but it's probably better placed here. Does anyone have any thoughts on the shrinkage of the red unistripe? I've found the white and blue unistripe to shrink a fair bit, while the pink and blue (no experience with ecru) don't shrink nearly as much. Any thoughts on the red unistripe? Thanks


----------



## gamma68

^ In my experience, the red university stripe shrinks just as much as the blue.


----------



## GenuineWeejun

Why are solid flannel sack sport coats so rare in the WAYWT-thread? Judging from their abundance on eBay and etsy, they seem to have been popular in the ivy heyday.


----------



## UnivStripe

I am considering a purchase of an end-on-end button down shirt from one of my favorite sources. I have found what may be some mistakes on the J Press website. The entry for an end-on-end button down shirt looks like chambray https://www.jpressonline.com/end-on-end-button-down-blue/ and the entry for the chambray shirt looks like end-on-end with plain points. Before I send this information to them, do you think that my observations are correct?


----------



## GenuineWeejun

UnivStripe said:


> I am considering a purchase of an end-on-end button down shirt from one of my favorite sources. I have found what may be some mistakes on the J Press website. The entry for an end-on-end button down shirt looks like chambray https://www.jpressonline.com/end-on-end-button-down-blue/ and the entry for the chambray shirt looks like end-on-end with plain points. Before I send this information to them, do you think that my observations are correct?


I belive you are right. A bit harder to tell with the one tagged end-on-end, but the chambray-tagged definitely looks like end-on-end.
I once owned an end-on-end shirt from Christian Dior, prior to my discovery of trad. It was a very nice shirt that breathed like no other. Only con was that it showed wear on the collar quicker than most other cotton shirts.


----------



## UnivStripe

GenuineWeejun, Thank you for your response. I think that I will send this information to their Customer Service email. Thanks!


----------



## Spin Evans

Bit of an odd request. Does anyone have any unmarked tie boxes, or one from Ben Silver? Managed to find an emblematic second-hand, but I'd like to find a box to give it in.


----------



## Reuben

Spin Evans said:


> Bit of an odd request. Does anyone have any unmarked tie boxes, or one from Ben Silver? Managed to find an emblematic second-hand, but I'd like to find a box to give it in.


Ask DrLivingston.


----------



## Fading Fast

Spin Evans said:


> Bit of an odd request. Does anyone have any unmarked tie boxes, or one from Ben Silver? Managed to find an emblematic second-hand, but I'd like to find a box to give it in.


I have a few Polo and BB ones somewhere (which I'd gladly send to you if you'd like), but I think most dollar stores (and around me, the less-fancy card stores) sell unmarked white gift boxes of many sizes.


----------



## Duvel

I realize this question is probably pretty superfluous and even silly, and so I'm keeping it here rather than devoting a new thread. What place does the two-button jacket have in a trad wardrobe? Or in yours, to be less general? I bring this up because I wore my two-button BB window-pane camel hair the other day, a jacket I have always loved, and it is the only two-button in my closet. Any thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I realize this question is probably pretty superfluous and even silly, and so I'm keeping it here rather than devoting a new thread. What place does the two-button jacket have in a trad wardrobe? Or in yours, to be less general? I bring this up because I wore my two-button BB window-pane camel hair the other day, a jacket I have always loved, and it is the only two-button in my closet. Any thoughts? Thanks.


Your questions gets to a bigger point about Trad dressing. There are some of the things we discuss here that I think of as inside Trad baseball - the exact perfect OCBD collar (length, roll, lined / un-lined, etc.), the 3/2 roll, the proper length of a cuff, the center-hook vent, etc. I love these discussions as historians love debating the tactical and strategic mistakes great military leaders make (Hitler invading Russia and starting a two front war) and I have great respect for those of our members - OCBD, Billax, for example - who conform to most of these details with exacting precision.

But I don't have the time, money or inclination to be that Trad perfect in my clothes, but I absolutely dress very Trad compared to the rest of society - OCBD are my core shirt, khakis or gray dress trousers, my core pants, bucks, desert boots, and Bean boots, my core shoes. Also, I mainly wear shetlands sweaters, grey sweatshirts, classic overcoats, Van sneakers, vintage watches, and other basic clothes that would have looked right at home in the 1950s. Most everything I own is wool, cotton, linen, silk with almost no synthetics (other than a small percentage that has creeped into some items for shape retentions). While I only wear 100% cotton must-iron OCBD, and love BBs, I will buy others that are not as perfect in the collar or other detail. I eschew all or almost all "fashion" items and most things that are flashy, trendy, avante grade or have no basis in Trad history (with only a few small exceptions like some of my workout clothes and some polar fleece items).

Hence, to my friends, I dress very "old fashion," "Preppy," etc. (that's how they describe it), but on this forum, I'm a middling. That is my very long way of saying that I wear both 3/2 and 2 button jackets with or without darts and with or without natural shoulders. But, none have exaggeratedly padded shoulders or other completely non-Trad details, fabrics, cuts or patterns. To the untrained eye, they all look very "traditional," but to those on this board some details are not right.

So, in my world, your camel hair two button sounds great and would be something I'd wear without a second thought, but I fully understand that those who are passionate about getting a more exacting Trad look might not. I see neither as right nor wrong - it's all about what you are trying to accomplish with your wardrobe and look.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Duvel said:


> I realize this question is probably pretty superfluous and even silly, and so I'm keeping it here rather than devoting a new thread. What place does the two-button jacket have in a trad wardrobe? Or in yours, to be less general? I bring this up because I wore my two-button BB window-pane camel hair the other day, a jacket I have always loved, and it is the only two-button in my closet. Any thoughts? Thanks.


In my humble opinion, the most important feature of a trad jacket is natural shoulders (necessary), the next is that is a sack (optional, but still very important), and the final is that it is 3/2 (optional, but it is a detail that many of us love!). Jackets that do not have these features can still be classic or traditional, but not really trad. That does not mean that a trad man cannot or should not where one. I hope that makes sense!


----------



## gamma68

oxford cloth button down said:


> In my humble opinion, the most important feature of a trad jacket is natural shoulders, the next is that is a sack, and the final is that it is 3/2. Jackets that do not have these features can still be classic or traditional, but not really trad. That does not mean that a trad man cannot or should not where one. I hope that makes sense!


This is a very succinct answer to Duvel's question. I'd add that single vent (as opposed to dual) is another important feature for those who want to go full-on Trad.

My jackets are roughly split between sack/3-2 roll and darted/two-button. I have a few English-made jackets with dual vents. And I have a vintage one I really like with NO VENT.

Like OCBD, I'm not a fan of overly padded shoulders. I have a couple gorgeous Harris Tweeds that I have yet to wear because the shoulders are a little too padded for me. Doesn't mean they're bad jackets--they're of solid construction. I'm just not sure what I want to do with them yet.


----------



## Duvel

I appreciate the thoughtful answers, FF, OCBD, and gamma! To your points, it definitely feels traditional and classic, although not necessarily trad. It is darted, but the darts are very subtle, and the suppression is minimal. The lapels have some width. These things keep it from appearing trendy or hip certainly. And most important, I feel good in it--the camel hair is nice and the windowpane pattern is subtle with just enough color.


----------



## Z.J.P

Duvel,

Nothing wrong with a little variety. You are still an American no matter if you have darts or not!!:cool2:


----------



## fred johnson

mhj said:


> How should wide wale cords be finished? Cuffs/no break or longer?


No cuffs


----------



## hardline_42

fred johnson said:


> No cuffs


Cuffs, no break :tongue2:


----------



## Dr. D

Duvel said:


> I realize this question is probably pretty superfluous and even silly, and so I'm keeping it here rather than devoting a new thread. What place does the two-button jacket have in a trad wardrobe? Or in yours, to be less general? I bring this up because I wore my two-button BB window-pane camel hair the other day, a jacket I have always loved, and it is the only two-button in my closet. Any thoughts? Thanks.


One of the bastions of the Ivy/trad look, The Andover Shop, sells their jackets and suits as two button undarted sacks. They will add a 3rd button if you request it, but their emphasis is on the natural shouldered sack, not the number of buttons.


----------



## Duvel

Thank you, Dr. D. I didn't know that. I should add that the BB jacket in question has shoulder padding but it is minimal, and over the years, through wear, seems to have softened.


----------



## Howard

Instead of repairing a zipper on a leather jacket could I use Velcro instead for the alternative?


----------



## FLMike

Howard said:


> Instead of repairing a zipper on a leather jacket could I use Velcro instead for the alternative?


Are leather jackets trad?


----------



## Duvel

Maybe in a duffle coat style?



FLCracka said:


> Are leather jackets trad?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

FLCracka said:


> Are leather jackets trad?


Maybe a leather bomber.


----------



## Howard

FLCracka said:


> Are leather jackets trad?


I don't know, should they be? I didn't know if they were supposed to be trad or not.


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## Howard

oxford cloth button down said:


> Maybe a leather bomber.


It's a London Fog.


----------



## Jovan

FLCracka said:


> Are leather jackets trad?


Can't speak for anyone else... but I really don't care if they are or not. Leather jackets are a classic, period.


----------



## eagle2250

^^+1. 

I'm down with that, but not every classic should be embraced. For instance, black leather trench coats.


----------



## orange fury

Fair warning, this is going to sound like I worry too much, but whatever.

As posted in acquisitions, my wife bought me a Tiffany engine turned belt buckle for Christmas this year. I was putting it on a strap last night and noticed that the hinge on the back appeared to be bent. I haven't been able to really find photos online to compare it to, so I was wondering if anyone that has one of these knows if it's supposed to be like this or if I need to try and get it repaired or exchanged. I'm going by Tiffany's this afternoon, but I wanted to get opinions here first.







like I said, I know this sounds super picky of me, but we paid too much for this for me to live with this if it's not supposed to be like this.


----------



## eagle2250

^^My young friend, I just looked at mine and the hinge on mine appears to be mounted squarely across the base of the buckle, hence seeming to confirm a potential discrepancy (slight bend) in the assembly of your buckle. Were it me, I would take it in and have Tiffany & Co examine it. Good luck in your quest!


----------



## Duvel

As to facial hair: My ideal of "preppy" and the "Ivy trad look" has been synonymous, always, with clean-cut, so in general, I don't like beards, mustaches, goatees, and the like, and I've never wanted to grow such. However, I see that facial hair has gained popularity in the forum. Thoughts?


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> Fair warning, this is going to sound like I worry too much, but whatever.
> 
> As posted in acquisitions, my wife bought me a Tiffany engine turned belt buckle for Christmas this year. I was putting it on a strap last night and noticed that the hinge on the back appeared to be bent. I haven't been able to really find photos online to compare it to, so I was wondering if anyone that has one of these knows if it's supposed to be like this or if I need to try and get it repaired or exchanged. I'm going by Tiffany's this afternoon, but I wanted to get opinions here first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> like I said, I know this sounds super picky of me, but we paid too much for this for me to live with this if it's not supposed to be like this.


I agree that it does look a bit off. I will take a look at mine when I'm home later, and will let you know if I have any additional thoughts.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

Duvel said:


> As to facial hair: My ideal of "preppy" and the "Ivy trad look" has been synonymous, always, with clean-cut, so in general, I don't like beards, mustaches, goatees, and the like, and I've never wanted to grow such. However, I see that facial hair has gained popularity in the forum. Thoughts?


I've sported the soul patch ala James Brown at various times, but I'm not entirely trad. Clean shaven these days, no sideburns. Got a fat stack of Astra Platinum blades for my old Gillette Super Speed and the wifey got me some fancy shave soap for my birthday.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

GTH soul patch trad circa summer 2012: 
Untitled by pass the peas, on Flickr


----------



## Fading Fast

FLCracka said:


> I agree that it does look a bit off. I will take a look at mine when I'm home later, and will let you know if I have any additional thoughts.


OF, hi, I have a BB one and a Polo one and they both look perfectly straight. I'm sure you'll have no problem either getting it repaired or exchanged as my few experiences with Tiffany's service is that they are very customer responsive - as they should be as a high-end, full-priced store. Good luck, let us know how it goes.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> As to facial hair: My ideal of "preppy" and the "Ivy trad look" has been synonymous, always, with clean-cut, so in general, I don't like beards, mustaches, goatees, and the like, and I've never wanted to grow such. However, I see that facial hair has gained popularity in the forum. Thoughts?


So you prefer the baby face clean cut look instead of scraggly facial hair?


----------



## Howard

Jovan said:


> Can't speak for anyone else... but I really don't care if they are or not. Leather jackets are a classic, period.


many people throughout history has worn one.


----------



## Duvel

Howard, yep. That's my preference. It goes with keeping nails trimmed, hair cut, and clothes laundered. 

TTG, you allude to something that I enjoy about keeping shaven: the routine. I enjoy using a nice shave soap and the ritual of brushing the lather on, shaving, etc.


----------



## jimw

I'm a clean-shaven guy myself, but I could never call into question the bona fides of, say, St Columba, Trip English, or others, as they're everything I would hope to be, sartorially speaking. Times change, I guess, and to each their own....

Happy New Year, all,

JW


----------



## Duvel

I would never question anyone's bona on the basis of his or her facial hair.


----------



## orange fury

Fading Fast said:


> OF, hi, I have a BB one and a Polo one and they both look perfectly straight. I'm sure you'll have no problem either getting it repaired or exchanged as my few experiences with Tiffany's service is that they are very customer responsive - as they should be as a high-end, full-priced store. Good luck, let us know how it goes.


I went last night and they're sending it off for repair, I should have it back by mid January. I had kind of hoped for just a straight replacement because the more I looked at it, the more it looked like it was just cast incorrectly, but since I got the hand engraving I didn't figure they would.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

orange fury said:


> I went last night and they're sending it off for repair, I should have it back by mid January. I had kind of hoped for just a straight replacement because the more I looked at it, the more it looked like it was just cast incorrectly, but since I got the hand engraving I didn't figure they would.


They may beat their estimated turnaround time. Most luxury companies like to under-promise and over-deliver. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## orange fury

Tourist Trophy Garage said:


> They may beat their estimated turnaround time. Most luxury companies like to under-promise and over-deliver. Let us know how it goes.


will do, we've never had a problem with T&Co in the past a bought a number of things from them, so I don't expect any real issues.

also, as an aside, your patch madras further up the thread is awesome, who is the maker? Also a fan of the backdrop lol


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> I went last night and they're sending it off for repair, I should have it back by mid January. I had kind of hoped for just a straight replacement because the more I looked at it, the more it looked like it was just cast incorrectly, but since I got the hand engraving I didn't figure they would.


Tiffany should (and most probably will) make it right even if they have to give you a new one - that is part of what you are paying for when you buy at Tiffany. That said, if it comes back at all shy of perfect, you should be polite but firm that you are disappointed and that it is not acceptable. Sometimes it does take a nudge or two like that to get even very good stores to do the right thing as some people will accept it improved but not right. Good luck - hopefully, it will come back in perfect shape the first time.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

orange fury said:


> will do, we've never had a problem with T&Co in the past a bought a number of things from them, so I don't expect any real issues.
> 
> also, as an aside, your patch madras further up the thread is awesome, who is the maker? Also a fan of the backdrop lol


The madras pants are Brooks 346, so from BB outlet.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> Howard, yep. That's my preference. It goes with keeping nails trimmed, hair cut, and clothes laundered.
> 
> TTG, you allude to something that I enjoy about keeping shaven: the routine. I enjoy using a nice shave soap and the ritual of brushing the lather on, shaving, etc.


I use regular scented shaving cream with a disposable shaver but before I do that I use an electric razor to get the stubble off.


----------



## Duvel

Seriously? Wow. That's hardcore.



Howard said:


> I use regular scented shaving cream with a disposable shaver but before I do that I use an electric razor to get the stubble off.


----------



## Tilton

Duvel said:


> As to facial hair: My ideal of "preppy" and the "Ivy trad look" has been synonymous, always, with clean-cut, so in general, I don't like beards, mustaches, goatees, and the like, and I've never wanted to grow such. However, I see that facial hair has gained popularity in the forum. Thoughts?


I dislike goatees, mustaches, etc. on myself, but others have pulled them off just fine. I have been wearing a beard for about six months now. I keep it in the neighborhood of 1"-1.5" long but have cut it down periodically - in the Eye Wear thread, it was about .75". I work in a pretty conservative industry at a very large, pretty conservative firm, so full beards are few and far between, but not looked down upon, so I get to stand out a bit. I shave the upper parts of my cheeks and my neckline daily, and run the hedge trimmer over it twice a week to keep things well-shaped, so I still get my shaving routine fix.

I find that there are two groups of people who like and remember me for the beard: clients and single women. Coincidentally, these two groups are of significant importance to me.

For clients, they seem to find it disarming and charming, especially with my new glasses. The other thing it does for clients is removes the sort of ex-frat-boy edge and makes me appear somewhat older and more seasoned. This is good, because I don't need anyone saying "we're paying how much an hour to take advice from a mid-20's guy with a creative writing degree?"

For single women, it is the next best thing to carrying a puppy around with you 24/7, as long as you have a high threshold for invasion of your personal space. Mid-20's women love to touch beards and it gives them a really easy conversation starter. Also, at the length I'm at presently, it is just enough to grab a hold of to draw my face closer, and it happens with moderate regularity.

Beard are also the ultimate complement and accessory to a quality, chunky wool sweater.

You sure you don't want one?


----------



## Duvel

To each his own, I guess. I've heard women claim, my wife included, that there is that puppy dog attraction you talk about. And yet, in real life, I've found that women like a clean-shaven face better. I find that women prefer a clean-cut look, and that they see the beard as cute but ultimately messy and not clean looking. I've also found that women have other means by which to draw me close. 

All that aside, I'm uncomfortable feeling shaggy. Even when I had longer hair in my college days, I went to a stylist fairly frequently. I could never quite do the complete shaggy hippy look. I also got used to keeping my hair "within regs" in my military career, and, of course, keeping my face shaven. As well, aside from a shaggy intellectual contingent, I don't see the unshaven look showing up in the anals of Ivy/Trad images.


----------



## FLMike

Duvel said:


> To each his own, I guess. I've heard women claim, my wife included, that there is that puppy dog attraction you talk about. And yet, in real life, I've found that women like a clean-shaven face better. I find that women prefer a clean-cut look, and that they see the beard as cute but ultimately messy and not clean looking. I've also found that women have other means by which to draw me close.
> 
> All that aside, I'm uncomfortable feeling shaggy. Even when I had longer hair in my college days, I went to a stylist fairly frequently. I could never quite do the complete shaggy hippy look. I also got used to keeping my hair "within regs" in my military career, and, of course, keeping my face shaven. As well, aside from a shaggy intellectual contingent, I don't see the unshaven look showing up in the anals of Ivy/Trad images.


I don't claim to have any kind of grasp on the definition of trad, but to my simiplistic mind, you see a lot of "tradish" elements in academia (tweed, OCBD's, etc).....you know, the stereotypical "college professor look"....and that stereotype very often includes beards, so it all seems to go together to me. Sort of like, trad = professorial = facial hair, therefore trad = facial hair. Maybe, maybe not, but my anecdotal observation that several of the contributors on the trad forum are somehow involved in academia seems to lend some credence to this. No?


----------



## Duvel

I'm not sure, FL. I work in academia and I see a lot of "looks" I don't like these days, including profs who appear at the front of their lecture halls in little more than an old t-shirt, Levis, and sandals. Trad?

But I see your point. There is a certain association of the beard with professorial. However, I'd call this more of a casual intellectual look rather than trad or Ivy. 

Oh, how we go around in circles.


----------



## L-feld

FLCracka said:


> Are leather jackets trad?


I was under the impression that suede sport jackets are somewhat within the tradition. I knind of want one of these from Orvis:


----------



## Z.J.P

I am someone who has grown and kept a beard a number of times now, and I have found that after 4 beard eras, I don't really like having one. 

The upkeep seems too much to me. I have to shave my neckline almost daily to limit unsightly stubble in that area, and having an electric trimmer just feels like at any trim I could ruin the whole thing. I find shaving every day or every other day to be much less hassle, since the only mistake you can make is a cut.

One thing about beards that just gets on my nerves is the rampant proclamation of manliness among some of the bearded crowd. I once had an acquaintance that would ask other men that didn't have a beard if they felt less manly around him(keep in mind, while he has a full beard, he is borderline obese and has questionable hygiene). Then there is a large community on the internet that posts memes and other content about how they are so manly and that only true men have beards. That's great and all, but have you noticed how few women post this sort of content?

Some women do like beards, but the one I have committed myself to doesn't like how it feels when we kiss, at the stubble phase to the full blown Grizzly Adams.

I guess my thoughts are that they are just fine as long as you can actually grow one and you don't feel the need to mention it to prove your manliness.


----------



## Duvel

All very true, ZJP.

I also, dare I say it, find that the hipster/lumberjack movement of recent years has put me off, probably forever, from ever wnating to grow a beard.


----------



## Z.J.P

Another point, I feel like most of the beards on the under 40(I am 30) crowd look slightly off. Like how a puppy walks with a leash...

Not all of the beards though, some do look very good.


----------



## Duvel

I feel that a beard definitely makes one look older. Maybe this is why some younger guys grow them? For men my age, who are greying or greyed, a grey beard seems to add decades.


----------



## orange fury

I grew a beard for No Shave November, and ended up not getting around to shaving it, so I unintentionally did Don't Shave December. I'm kind of tired of it though, so I'm scheduling an appointment with a barber to get a straight razor shave done (it's been a while, and since I'm shaving off two months of growth, I figured it was a good excuse to get another one). I was able to do this a couple nights ago though:



my wife's look of abject horror put a stop to that very quickly lol


----------



## Tilton

I see the above points. For me, personally, I have very, very heavy facial hair growth, so I am prickly and sandpaper-ish within an hour or so of shaving, which, I'm told, is even more uncomfortable for women than longer, softer hairs. Also with that growth, it means that I don't get a patchy beard, so as long as I shave certain areas daily (not an imposition because I have to shave daily to avoid looking unkempt anyway), it stays very neat and orderly looking. I avoid the shaggy look as a whole Monday through Friday - pomade in the hair, a trim every three weeks or so, etc, so it doesn't look unruly. 

The trick to using the clippers is to get a guard that is the length you want your beard, then run it over everything. No chance of mistakes, then. 

Also worth noting, I've been advised at work to avoid getting a high-and-tight-ish haircut if I keep the beard and lose the glasses, because short hair and a beard makes one look very aggressive - eyeglasses soften the look considerably, too. Perhaps the very short hair and beard is a bit special forces-esque.


----------



## adoucett

Can anybody help identify the style of coat pictured here? I came across this J.Crew coat today in a local store. They had one of each size and had no identifying tags other then the J.Crew label and materials. The material is cotton similar to corduroy, with a quilted lining. It buttons all the way up with the buttons being hidden similar to a balmacaan. I wasn't sure what this was even after a bit of online research in the store… I personally kind of liked it but wasn't sure if it has a place in my wardrobe. Could it be a preproduction sample?


----------



## Jovan

Whatever it is, they need to press it!


----------



## thegovteach

I've sported a mustache since 1976....my wife and child do not know what I look like w/o one....and my son is 26 yrs old...


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> Seriously? Wow. That's hardcore.


I want my skin to feel less stubbly first because If I don't then it will feel like I'm shaving sandpaper.


----------



## Howard

> I am someone who has grown and kept a beard a number of times now, and I have found that after 4 beard eras, I don't really like having one.


At first, I tried shaving the beard and keeping the mustache and then I tried shaving the mustache then keeping the beard so then I decided the hell with it I'll just keep it off for good.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> I feel that a beard definitely makes one look older. Maybe this is why some younger guys grow them? For men my age, who are greying or greyed, a grey beard seems to add decades.


I had a beard but it was more of a goatee, it itched like crazy.


----------



## Howard

thegovteach said:


> I've sported a mustache since 1976....my wife and child do not know what I look like w/o one....and my son is 26 yrs old...


Did you think about shaving it off?


----------



## zeppacoustic

Just picked up a pair of Weejuns from the outlet at deep discount to serve as beater loafers. Anything you guys do for upkeep? Just have shoetrees for them. Very comfy in first 10 hours of wear at least!


----------



## thegovteach

Once back in the 90s...had a job offer from a school near San Antonio that forbid facial hair...but didn't take the position...


----------



## Duvel

My entire career at one point demanded no facial hair, as I was an air force officer. It was like, so what, my daddy taught me how to shave.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

zeppacoustic said:


> Just picked up a pair of Weejuns from the outlet at deep discount to serve as beater loafers. Anything you guys do for upkeep? Just have shoetrees for them. Very comfy in first 10 hours of wear at least!


Wiped down with damp cloth when they're dirty. Treed when not on feet. Occasionally treated to edge ink and polish, but they don't look much better polished than beat upon.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Brooks Bros. currently has the "classic penny loafer" on sale for ca. $180: calf, not CG. See https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Clas...pd.html?dwvar_MH00385_Color=DKRD&contentpos=1. Does someone know who makes these? The sales associate thought Allen-Edmonds.


----------



## August West

SlideGuitarist said:


> Brooks Bros. currently has the "classic penny loafer" on sale for ca. $180: calf, not CG. See https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Clas...pd.html?dwvar_MH00385_Color=DKRD&contentpos=1. Does someone know who makes these? The sales associate thought Allen-Edmonds.


I think I remember reading somewhere on this forum that they are made by sebago. I happen to be wearing mine today.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

August West said:


> I think I remember reading somewhere on this forum that they are made by sebago. I happen to be wearing mine today.


The Sebagos are CG, I believe; these started at at about $250, which seems steep for CG loafers.


----------



## August West

To my untrained eye, the BB "classic penny loafers" are corrected grain, or at least have the same very stiff and shiny characteristics of a CG shoe. 

AE Waldens which I believe are $250 at full freight are also corrected grain, though AE calls them polished calf.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

August West said:


> To my untrained eye, the BB "classic penny loafers" are corrected grain, or at least have the same very stiff and shiny characteristics of a CG shoe.
> 
> AE Waldens which I believe are $250 at full freight are also corrected grain, though AE calls them polished calf.


I was just in the store, trying these on. They don't have the plasticky look of my Cole-Haans, or of my son's Weejuns. I'm pretty sure I could see the pores in the leather. They didn't fit me, so the question is perhaps moot.


----------



## Howard

thegovteach said:


> Once back in the 90s...had a job offer from a school near San Antonio that forbid facial hair...but didn't take the position...


why? cause you had facial hair?


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> My entire career at one point demanded no facial hair, as I was an air force officer. It was like, so what, my daddy taught me how to shave.


My Father, growing up being a self-guru that he is taught me how to shave.


----------



## thegovteach

Howard said:


> why? cause you had facial hair?


What they offered in the interview changed about 5 minutes before I signed the contract.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

So, this one has been bothering me for a while. 

How is "Southwick" pronounced? I've been pronouncing it "Suthick" or Southick" dropping the w. 

Is this even close or am I being pretentious? I've never had occasion to discuss the name with anyone in person, and should I find myself in that position I don't want to sound like a twit.


Thoughts?


----------



## loarbmhs

It's pronounced just like it looks: "south" (like the direction on a map) and "wick" (like part of a candle).


----------



## Peak and Pine

Tourist Trophy Garage said:


> How is "Southwick" pronounced? I've been pronouncing it "Suthick" or Southick" dropping the w.


Interesting. Like Greenwich is pronounced without the w and the green shortened.



loarbmhs said:


> It's pronounced just like it looks: "south" (like the direction on a map) and "wick" (like part of a candle).


Why are you so sure of this, because that's the way you do it? A nearby town here, Woolwich, is pronounced Wool'itch. The Leeward Islands are pronounced Loo'ards. The word _toward _drops the w, etc. Trophy, you may be on to something. A lot smoother without the w.


----------



## loarbmhs

You guys are driving me nuts. It's like asking whether sandwich should be pronounced "sandich," just because you know of one other word where you don't pronounce the "w." Perhaps this will put the matter to bed once and for all:

I have been to the Southwick factory...I have met the original owners...to a man and a woman, they pronounced the name of their company Southwick, like I've described above. Pronounce the "w" and move on to more important things, like choosing the color socks you'll wear tonight.



Peak and Pine said:


> Interesting. Like Greenwich is pronounced without the w and the green shortened.
> 
> Why are you so sure of this, because that's the way you do it? A nearby town here, Woolwich, is pronounced Wool'itch. The Leeward Islands are pronounced Loo'ards. The word _toward _drops the w, etc. Trophy, you may be on to something. A lot smoother without the w.


----------



## gamma68

^ LMFAO


----------



## Jovan

You realize P&P is just being facetious, right?


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

Please forgive me, I didn't mean to cause such consternation. I thought it was a valid question. I've not had benefit of visit to the factory, nor have I heard the word pronounced by anyone. I'm so far outside the sartorial world, the name has never come up in conversation.

We've surely all heard the word sandwich. That's pretty straightforward and not really a valid comparison.

Thanks



loarbmhs said:


> You guys are driving me nuts. It's like asking whether sandwich should be pronounced "sandich," just because you know of one other word where you don't pronounce the "w." Perhaps this will put the matter to bed once and for all:
> 
> I have been to the Southwick factory...I have met the original owners...to a man and a woman, they pronounced the name of their company Southwick, like I've described above. Pronounce the "w" and move on to more important things, like choosing the color socks you'll wear tonight.


----------



## Filipe

Quick question. Can someone tell me from which era is this Stanley Blacker tag:


----------



## Duvel

Tie space: more, or less? I see some of us wearing OCBDs with ties and there is little if any space at the top button, i.e., there is an unbroken inverted V over the tie. I see other examples where there is 1/2 inch or more at the top of the V. Is there any general idea about the "proper" look here? Or is it personal preference?


----------



## Orgetorix

It's personal preference. Just a matter of what you like. I like a little tie space, maybe 1/4" or so, but it's not a big enough deal that I keep or trash shirts based on it.


----------



## orange fury

Got my tiffany buckle back in the mail tonight, and the hinge is still bent:




im kind of getting upset that I'm having to go to this much trouble for a $300 belt buckle...


----------



## UnivStripe

It is strange that I am thinking about summer clothes when the outside temperatures are in the single digits °F in western Pennsylvania, USA. Wishful thinking I guess, but, here goes:

I usually wear pique polo, or tennis shirts with shorts. I would appreciate any suggestions for other styles of shirts that go with khaki twill, khaki poplin, seersucker, madras, and patch madras shorts. Thinking mainly short sleeve madras for the khaki shorts and short sleeve OCBD shirts for the seersucker, madras, and patch madras shorts. Do any of you wear your long sleeve tartans, madras, or OCBD shirts with shorts?


----------



## zeppacoustic

UnivStripe said:


> I usually wear pique polo, or tennis shirts with shorts. I would appreciate any suggestions for other styles of shirts that go with khaki twill, khaki poplin, seersucker, madras, and patch madras shorts. Thinking mainly short sleeve madras for the khaki shorts and short sleeve OCBD shirts for the seersucker, madras, and patch madras shorts. Do any of you wear your long sleeve tartans, madras, or OCBD shirts with shorts?


I wear long-sleeve madras, linen, and poplin sport shirts with shorts and rolled up sleeves frequently. I actually prefer the rolled-up sleeves to the short sleeve shirts. Seersucker shirts as well.


----------



## UnivStripe

zeppacoustic said:


> I wear long-sleeve madras, linen, and poplin sport shirts with shorts and rolled up sleeves frequently. I actually prefer the rolled-up sleeves to the short sleeve shirts. Seersucker shirts as well.


zeppacoustic, thank you for your response. I think that I will do the same. It doesn't make sense to buy short sleeve shirts when I can wear the long sleeve ones that I already have.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I roll up the sleeves of my long-sleeve shirts when I wear a woven shirt with shorts. But I do also have a number of short-sleeve woven shirts.

Basically, I buy summer sports shirts when I come across one I like very cheaply, and I don't really worry about long-sleeve vs. short sleeve (though I don't like half-sleeves).


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> Got my tiffany buckle back in the mail tonight, and the hinge is still bent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> im kind of getting upset that I'm having to go to this much trouble for a $300 belt buckle...


Wow, that really sucks. It seems like they probably should've just scrapped that buckle and started over with a new one. My sterling Tiffany buckle is not the engine turned version, but rather the plain plaque style buckle. Mine had a flaw when I got it as well. The stamp on the back of the buckle, that says "Tiffany & Co." and "Sterling" was applied crooked. Since it was not visible while being worn, and had no effect on how the buckle functioned, I just decided to live with it. Unfortunately, your defect is much more serious. It seems like there was a mistake made in the actual casting and/or shaping of the metal during the manufacturing process. Good luck in getting it resolved - I know that's got to be incredibly frustrating.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

OF, stick to your guns, especially if the functionality or appearance of the buckle is affected. I hope they resolve the problem without too much more headache, especially since this was a gift. I'm going through a similar process with an automobile at the moment and sometimes I feel like customer service is a lost art.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gamma68

I have a button/protocol question...




This isn't what I wore today, but I have wondered about wearing a leather-button vest with a blazer. Is it a faux pas to combine the leather button vest with blazer buttons? A photo is above for reference.

If you wouldn't wear the blazer with this vest, would you pair it with a jacket that has leather buttons? Or would you only wear this vest with a jacket that has traditional flat buttons?


----------



## Duvel

OF, maybe I'm just not as fastidious but I don't see it as a big defect, or perhaps I don't think that anything handmade is ever perfect. That is, I'm not sure I'd even have noticed the defect. Does the flaw affect the wear?


----------



## Fading Fast

OF, I'm sorry you are going through this, but I agree with Brigadier Cheape, stick to your guns. 

I would politely, but firmly request a new one at this point. They sold you (your wife I believe) a defected buckle, you gave them a chance to fix it and now you want it replaced. That is absolutely reasonable. Additionally, and you might want to remind them of this is necessary, you have been inconvenienced both in having to deal with this issue and with not have the buckle to use. 

While Tiffany's isn't Cartier or Harry Winston, it is definitely a high-end, full-priced store in which the implicit bargain is that I will pay you full price, you will provide me with excellent service both before and after the sale.


----------



## Fading Fast

Gamma, my take is the buttons are not what matter but the colors, tone and textures are and, in your case, the blazer's texture looks heavy enough, IMHO, to hold up to the Fair Isle's texture and the colors, being a navy blazer, work well together. Hence, I think it looks fine. That said, I'm looking forward to hearing from others as I've never thought much about button-matching issues and want to learn if there are accepted norms.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> I'm looking forward to hearing from others as I've never thought much about button-matching issues and want to learn if there are accepted norms.


I'd like to hear from others on this question as well.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

gamma68 said:


> I have a button/protocol question...
> 
> This isn't what I wore today, but I have wondered about wearing a leather-button vest with a blazer. Is it a faux pas to combine the leather button vest with blazer buttons? A photo is above for reference.
> 
> If you wouldn't wear the blazer with this vest, would you pair it with a jacket that has leather buttons? Or would you only wear this vest with a jacket that has traditional flat buttons?


This has never occurred to me, but I think I agree with Fading Fast. Normally, I would expect a vest with leather buttons to be far too casual for a coat with brass buttons, but I think the gap is closed somewhat by those individual garments. The vest isn't too rugged, and the blazer isn't too refined.

So, the buttons alone aren't enough, but if that were a shaggy shetland vest with a smooth worsted blazer (by the way, smooth worsted blazers are the worst garment in existence), it would be bad.


----------



## gamma68

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> This has never occurred to me, but I think I agree with Fading Fast. Normally, I would expect a vest with leather buttons to be far too casual for a coat with brass buttons, but I think the gap is closed somewhat by those individual garments. The vest isn't too rugged, and the blazer isn't too refined.


Thanks, YRR. Just to be clear, the blazer pictured is a flannel.

Let me ask the question this way: would you wear that same button-down vest with a tweed jacket that has leather football buttons? The wool vest and tweed work from a texture standpoint, but it seems that combining the two would present be *A LOT* of leather buttons.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

gamma68 said:


> Thanks, YRR. Just to be clear, the blazer pictured is a flannel.
> 
> Let me ask the question this way: would you wear that same button-down vest with a tweed jacket that has leather football buttons? The wool vest and tweed work from a texture standpoint, but it seems that combining the two would present be *A LOT* of leather buttons.


I guess what I was trying to say is, it works because the blazer's a flannel (with swelled edge and patch pockets). I do think a duller finish on the buttons might help a bit.

If I wore that vest with a coat that had leather buttons, I probably wouldn't notice 'til I was out the door. I wouldn't mix it with black or gray leather buttons, but with brown ones it would be okay.

My personal line for "too many buttons" is a DB overcoat with a DB jacket. When you hit that point, you're over the top, but anything else is fine by me.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I just got this shantung silk tie (J. Press). I also love nubbly wool ties, for what it's worth. Since shantung has an obvious sheen, I wonder if this calls for a slightly dressier or dandyish (not for work, in other words) approach. My gut tells me that this sort of tie doesn't go with a tweed jacket (navy worsted jacket and gray flannels should be sufficient). Opinions?









I love Viola Milano's offerings, though I can't afford any of them; they go crazy with slubby silk, e.g https://violamilano.com/the-journal...viola-milano-navy-white-striped-shantung-tie/. Theirs are much nubblier than J. Press's, and I can imagine them with tweed or such:


----------



## Spin Evans

Gamma: Since you all asked so nicely ...

I am getting something of a disconnect between leather buttons and bright brass blazer buttons. Not just in terms of formality, but also the bulky . It wouldn't have been something I would have noticed on my own, but the sizes of them just seem a bit prominent. I think that leather buttons can be worn in the depicted manner, but I think it'd work better if the blazer were worn open, or if the jacket had horn buttons. In the same vein, I also kind of think double leather buttons would be visually tiresome.

SG: I think that shantung and raw silk are perfect for summer wear, like cotton- and linen-blends. I could imagine them also working with tweeds, but I don't know if I've actually seen it done.1


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Shantung is a summer tie. The iGent trend last winter was to wear them in neutral colors in the winter, but you're too good for that.

I have a couple. I like them with textured summer jackets (here: slubby silk and wool hopsack). 

















J. Press makes especially shiny examples of the breed, I have noticed. But I tend to treat them like repp ties: they should be the shiniest element of a rig.

So, navy blazer and tan linen trousers or stone chinos. Or gray gabs. I like my slubby silk jacket (obviously), and I think I'll happily wear them with my stone cotton suit. Seersucker and pincord are also welcome. But flannel, tweed, corduroy, cav twill? Stick to the wool ties.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Brilliant answer; thanks!


----------



## Fading Fast

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> This has never occurred to me, but I think I agree with Fading Fast.


I don't think these two thoughts were connected, but I cracked up when I read this. If they were connected - wow, what a smack down.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Shantung is a summer tie...


Would the same logic hold for "matka" ties: https://www.chippneckwear.com/silk-matka/? Or Sam Hober's various rough silk weaves: https://www.samhober.com/rough-thai-silk-ties/? I would think yes. More importantly, this fabric is inherently more arresting than repp, which means I shouldn't wear it to work unless I'm trying trying to get attention for something other than the quality of my code.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Tie space: more, or less? I see some of us wearing OCBDs with ties and there is little if any space at the top button, i.e., there is an unbroken inverted V over the tie. I see other examples where there is 1/2 inch or more at the top of the V. Is there any general idea about the "proper" look here? Or is it personal preference?


I think this is personal preference, I prefer no space if the collar is buttoned, but I'm also OCD about stuff like that (same thing for me with the dimple though)



UnivStripe said:


> I usually wear pique polo, or tennis shirts with shorts. I would appreciate any suggestions for other styles of shirts that go with khaki twill, khaki poplin, seersucker, madras, and patch madras shorts. Thinking mainly short sleeve madras for the khaki shorts and short sleeve OCBD shirts for the seersucker, madras, and patch madras shorts. Do any of you wear your long sleeve tartans, madras, or OCBD shirts with shorts?


Not strange at all, I have two pairs of reds on their way to me right now as a result of wishful thinking lol. I don't own but a couple polo shirts any more, during the summer I'll wear both short and long sleeve madras shirts with chino shorts, and long sleeve OCBDs or linen shirts with chino shorts or madras shorts. The sleeves are rolled up on the long sleeve shirts, and I'll vary tucked or untucked depending on where I'm going. I also live in Sperrys, espadrilles, or flip flops during the summer- when it consistently hits 100*F with 1,000% humidity, staying cool becomes a high priority lol



FLCracka said:


> Wow, that really sucks. It seems like they probably should've just scrapped that buckle and started over with a new one. My sterling Tiffany buckle is not the engine turned version, but rather the plain plaque style buckle. Mine had a flaw when I got it as well. The stamp on the back of the buckle, that says "Tiffany & Co." and "Sterling" was applied crooked. Since it was not visible while being worn, and had no effect on how the buckle functioned, I just decided to live with it. Unfortunately, your defect is much more serious. It seems like there was a mistake made in the actual casting and/or shaping of the metal during the manufacturing process. Good luck in getting it resolved - I know that's got to be incredibly frustrating.





Brigadier Cheape said:


> OF, stick to your guns, especially if the functionality or appearance of the buckle is affected. I hope they resolve the problem without too much more headache, especially since this was a gift. I'm going through a similar process with an automobile at the moment and sometimes I feel like customer service is a lost art.





Duvel said:


> OF, maybe I'm just not as fastidious but I don't see it as a big defect, or perhaps I don't think that anything handmade is ever perfect. That is, I'm not sure I'd even have noticed the defect. Does the flaw affect the wear?





Fading Fast said:


> OF, I'm sorry you are going through this, but I agree with Brigadier Cheape, stick to your guns.
> I would politely, but firmly request a new one at this point. They sold you (your wife I believe) a defected buckle, you gave them a chance to fix it and now you want it replaced. That is absolutely reasonable. Additionally, and you might want to remind them of this is necessary, you have been inconvenienced both in having to deal with this issue and with not have the buckle to use.
> While Tiffany's isn't Cartier or Harry Winston, it is definitely a high-end, full-priced store in which the implicit bargain is that I will pay you full price, you will provide me with excellent service both before and after the sale.


Updating on this:

I took the buckle to another Tiffanys last night and explained the situation, fantastic customer service on the part of the SA. I didn't even have to ask for a replacement, she immediately saw the issue and was like "yeah, there's no way this should've been sent back to you, I'll process a replacement order right now". Theyre sending me a blank one so I can make sure it's okay before its sent off for engraving, so it will still be several weeks before I get to wear it, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

now for a question-

I bought this for $10 at a Marshalls a couple days ago (posted it in acquisitions), but I'm not sure if im going to keep it yet. I like VV grosgrain belts and have several, but I'm not sure how to wear green and purple, primarily because of the purple. I was thinking white or stone pants during the summer maybe? I don't know, thoughts/suggestions appreciated:










I do already own a green/blue stripe ribbon belt that is a bit too long and far cheaper quality that I was thinking of using this to replace, I think it's just the purple throwing me off since I don't own anything with purple in it.


----------



## Tilton

You're over-thinking the belt, OF. It's just a belt. Wear it with whatever. Stone khakis and a uni OCBD, navy chinos and a blue OCBD, BK shorts and a white polo, dark-wash jeans, a light shirt, and navy sweater - whatever, just keep it neutral-ish in pattern and color aside form the belt.


----------



## Duvel

I posed my tie space question to Brooks Brothers customer service and received an interesting reply. It was rather indirect; instead of addressing how much tie space I should have, they instead said that I should size my collar by how it fits around my neck. Specifically, they said that they recommend the collar, buttoned with a tie, should touch the neck all the way around without digging into the neck, and that I should be able to slip one finger comfortably between the collar and the neck. They also said that if I am comfortably between two neck sizes to go for the smaller neck size. As this is what I do (i.e., I wear 16.5 but a 17 would be a little loose), I figure I must be "doing it right."


----------



## Orgetorix

That's because they either didn't understand the question (the concept of "tie space" not being a common one outside internet forums), or they wanted to redirect you into not worrying about the tie space because the wrong answer might push you away from their shirts.


----------



## Fading Fast

Orgetorix said:


> That's because they either didn't understand the question (the concept of "tie space" not being a common one outside internet forums), or they wanted to redirect you into not worrying about the tie space because the wrong answer might push you away from their shirts.


In this case, I vote it was ignorance not iniquity.


----------



## Orgetorix

Fading Fast said:


> In this case, I vote it was ignorance not iniquity.


That's likely.


----------



## Duvel

Yeah. I thought it was a bit odd. Then again, my question's a bit odd. As am I.

At the same time, it verified that, at least according to Brooks Brothers, I'm sizing my shirts correctly.



Orgetorix said:


> That's because they either didn't understand the question (the concept of "tie space" not being a common one outside internet forums), or they wanted to redirect you into not worrying about the tie space because the wrong answer might push you away from their shirts.


----------



## orange fury

Looking at getting some rain boots. Any opinions on Lacrosse vs. Hunter vs. Le Chameau?


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> Looking at getting some rain boots. Any opinions on Lacrosse vs. Hunter vs. Le Chameau?


Hunter = despite whatever their history might be, they are currently very trendy and popular among women. Head scratcher that you included them in your inquiry. Then again, I guess the same could be said about Bean Boots right now (hmmm).

Le Chameu/Lacrosse = high-end and mass market versions, respectively, of the same style, i.e tall rubber boots designed for trecking through mud and muck.

Do you spend a lot of time walking through mud and muck, sloshing through deep puddles, and/or walking long distances across wetlands or flooded woodlands?

If not, I can't imagine rubber wellies offering you any better utility than your new Bean Boots. Maybe post your question in the Fashion Forum or one of the other clothing forums and see what responses you get.


----------



## Orgetorix

I have a pair of Hunters. I rarely wear them, but once every year or two we get a real gullywasher that hits right as I have to commute, and then I'm always glad I have them. They're not comfortable for walking long distances, and my feet sweat if I'm in them for long...but they keep me dry!


----------



## FLMike

In all seriousness, my wife has a pair of Hunters and loves them. My 12 year old daughter also just got a pair for Christmas. There really is a good parallel to be drawn with Bean Boots. A classic brand that's been around for a long time, and has recently been embraced by the fashion world, causing them to be desired by the trend-following masses as the latest, must-have item. Lots of moms wearing Hunter boots to the lacrosse fields on Saturday morning!

Personally, if I have a need for that type of footwear, I'll wear my Red Head camo rubber boots from Bass Pro. But the need for that type of footwear (for me) outside of the woods is practically nonexistent. My Bean Boots can handle even the nastiest rain day in town....and we get plenty of nasty rain days in Florida.


----------



## orange fury

FLCracka said:


> In all seriousness, my wife has a pair of Hunters and loves them. My 12 year old daughter also just got a pair for Christmas. There really is a good parallel to be drawn with Bean Boots. A classic brand that's been around for a long time, and has recently been embraced by the fashion world, causing them to be desired by the trend-following masses as the latest, must-have item. Lots of moms wearing Hunter boots to the lacrosse fields on Saturday morning!
> 
> Personally, if I have a need for that type of footwear, I'll wear my Red Head camo rubber boots from Bass Pro. But the need for that type of footwear (for me) outside of the woods is practically nonexistent. My Bean Boots can handle even the nastiest rain day in town....and we get plenty of nasty rain days in Florida.


My wife's family has a large piece of property an hour or so north of us, the majority of which is adjacent to a national forest (ie, it's in the woods). We've been traveling up there more frequently recently, and I keep thinking that a pair of rain boots would be useful. When I was in Scouts growing up and went camping in the rain, I had a cheap pair from Walmart that served me well. I've been looking at getting another pair, but had been thinking about getting something a bit nicer than Walmart boots to keep in my trunk for those trips. My Bean Boots have been great on cold and wet days in the city (the reason I got them), but for outdoor/woods use, I was looking for something with a bit more coverage.


----------



## FLMike

Fair enough. I recommend Bass Pro or Cabelas.


----------



## Howard

How do you mask the smell of wet boots and what can I put inside them?


----------



## Tilton

OF - if the purpose is actually more utility than style, buy a pair of Mucks or Bogs. Your feet will thank you later - both are far superior products (comfort and durability-wise) compared to the boots you listed.


----------



## ThePopinjay

orange fury said:


> Looking at getting some rain boots. Any opinions on Lacrosse vs. Hunter vs. Le Chameau?


I love my Chameaus. I also considered getting a pair of Aigle boots (something like this: https://www.countryattire.com/aigle-parcours-2-vario-wellington-boot-brown.html )


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

Howard said:


> How do you mask the smell of wet boots and what can I put inside them?


There's probably more elegant solutions out there, but I bought a ton of cedar wood shavings, intended for pet bedding, and I stuff a bunch of it in an old sock, after which resembles something phallic, and I sew the top of the sock closed then stuff it in the shaft of the boots in question.


----------



## Duvel

Gold Bond Triple Action


----------



## Howard

ThatDudeOrion said:


> There's probably more elegant solutions out there, but I bought a ton of cedar wood shavings, intended for pet bedding, and I stuff a bunch of it in an old sock, after which resembles something phallic, and I sew the top of the sock closed then stuff it in the shaft of the boots in question.


What I tried yesterday was to put scented tea bags inside the boots.


----------



## Bama87

Tilton said:


> OF - if the purpose is actually more utility than style, buy a pair of Mucks or Bogs. Your feet will thank you later - both are far superior products (comfort and durability-wise) compared to the boots you listed.


Muck boots by far.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I know I've asked this question before, and YRR answered, I think correctly, that shantung was a summer material. Given how shiny is the J. Press tie that I bought, I wouldn't wear it to work anyway; I'd wait for a spiffier occasion; given the bright green, I would in fact wait until warmer weather. 

I note, however, that the website for Drake's has shantung/tussah neckties that are so nubbly you'd think they were wool if you were standing a few feet away, and some of these colors seem a little more wintry (dark brown ties in summer?): . I wonder if 1, these represent a deliberately dandified approach, in which one might try to test the rules (No shantung in summer? Nubbly shantung in your face!); 2, if they represent a sort of Italian approach (solid-colored tie of exquisite and expensive material than one can only appreciate close-up). 

I can't afford any of these anyway, so this is a theoretical question.


----------



## MrAndersonGCC

Do all half-canvas jackets have stitching under the lapels? I have a hard time telling if jackets are canvassed or not, and the 'pinching' methods doesn't work for me.


----------



## ThePopinjay

SlideGuitarist said:


> I know I've asked this question before, and YRR answered, I think correctly, that shantung was a summer material. Given how shiny is the J. Press tie that I bought, I wouldn't wear it to work anyway; I'd wait for a spiffier occasion; given the bright green, I would in fact wait until warmer weather.
> 
> I note, however, that the website for Drake's has shantung/tussah neckties that are so nubbly you'd think they were wool if you were standing a few feet away, and some of these colors seem a little more wintry (dark brown ties in summer?): . I wonder if 1, these represent a deliberately dandified approach, in which one might try to test the rules (No shantung in summer? Nubbly shantung in your face!); 2, if they represent a sort of Italian approach (solid-colored tie of exquisite and expensive material than one can only appreciate close-up).
> 
> I can't afford any of these anyway, so this is a theoretical question.


YRR was certainly correct in saying it makes a summer tie. I have seen it done by the Pitti Uomo types where it is paired with tweeds. I guess I don't personally have a viewpoint on this (I'm sure this being the trad forum, most would say "Don't"), but I would say it is always something you could try and see what you think. 
Although I will say (at least for me) if I were going around all day thinking "I hope this is right, I don't know if this is seasonally appropriate, etc.", I probably would not have the confidence to pull it off. Somethings feel right and some things don't.
















Here's a few examples I found just doing an image search. I'm inclined to think the second image works better than the first.

Also an interesting post from The Suit Room-


----------



## Orgetorix

MrAndersonGCC said:


> Do all half-canvas jackets have stitching under the lapels? I have a hard time telling if jackets are canvassed or not, and the 'pinching' methods doesn't work for me.


There's no good way to tell a half-canvas jacket from a fused one, that I know of.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Re: nubbly shantung ties, thanks the breakdown, Popinjay. Perhaps someone will give me a Drake's gift certificate for £115.00, and I can put this theorizing to the test. Agree with you on the first outfit; I do _not_ like the scarlet stripe next to the reddish brown jacket material.


----------



## prod

I apologize if this is in the forum already, but search didn't produce any viable results. 

What would be the best (both economical & long-sighted) for someone starting out with trad, and on a limited budget? 

1. Save for the name brand essential pieces
2. Thrift your way (knowing that my knowledge of brands is elementary)
3. Shopping discounted brands (le, uniqlo, target) for pieces 

or some combination? I guess what I'm asking is how did you build that well-rounded trad wardrobe in the beginning?


----------



## ThePopinjay

SlideGuitarist said:


> Re: nubbly shantung ties, thanks the breakdown, Popinjay. Perhaps someone will give me a Drake's gift certificate for £115.00, and I can put this theorizing to the test. Agree with you on the first outfit; I do _not_ like the scarlet stripe next to the reddish brown jacket material.


Agreed! I love all of Drake's products! Especially their neckties.


----------



## Bama87

prod said:


> I apologize if this is in the forum already, but search didn't produce any viable results.
> 
> What would be the best (both economical & long-sighted) for someone starting out with trad, and on a limited budget?
> 
> 1. Save for the name brand essential pieces
> 2. Thrift your way (knowing that my knowledge of brands is elementary)
> 3. Shopping discounted brands (le, uniqlo, target) for pieces
> 
> or some combination? I guess what I'm asking is how did you build that well-rounded trad wardrobe in the beginning?


I just started attempting to thrift , but it seems like a great option for those on a budget. Just try to read read read and start by finding things you like and fit well to get an idea of the style that you like.

Links I like to use:
https://putthison.com/post/1454913425/a-loosey-goosey-brand-guide-for-thrifting-suits

https://thriftygent.com/how-to-thrift-labels/


----------



## tryst

Do you think this would be a worthwhile navy jacket to procure?
Brooks Brothers Vintage 50 Reg Wool Dark Navy Blazer Gold Buttons Coat Jacket


----------



## Z.J.P

Drakes is having a sale.

Also, best(price wise) place to buy Drake's is: 

Though right now it seems to be slim pickings. They put things on sale quite often and you can save VAT.


----------



## Duvel

This isn't a question but rather a kind of answer, and maybe an appeal to other solutions. My new LL Bean moc bluchers were squeaking like crazy! I mean, loud. This weekend, I gave them a good mink oil treatment. The leather immediately softened up. This morning, nary a squeak. 

Has anybody else had this problem? Other solutions?


----------



## CMDC

I'll take a stab at this.

As to thrifting, it totally depends upon the quality of thrift stores in your area. If you live in close proximity to a lot of good thrifts, that have good quality, and good turnover of merchandise, thrifting is a great way to go. It's cheap and it allows you to pick up things that, while maybe not perfect, can act as a placeholder until the better piece comes along. The key, here, though--and I think all of us big thrifters have failed at this from time to time--is to become discriminating in your purchases. Otherwise, you end up with way too many things that you don't wear and closets that are bulging.

That said, when you can go new, do so, especially taking advantage of sales. The nice thing about this style of dress is that the basics don't really disappear. Despite the periodic gnashing of teeth around here, BB ocbd's are available, you can get great Shetland sweaters from a number of sources, Allen Edmonds has sales all the time, etc. etc. etc. With sales and out of season buying you can do quite well at saving money.

As to discounted brands, some are better than others and some do particular things better than others. I have several pair of LE wool trousers that are just fine. LLB double L khakis are a great deal IMO.

I think the key point, though, is to take your time. With any new interest, there is a tendency to rush full steam ahead. You'll make mistakes and waste a lot of money if you do so. Figure out what you will actually wear--what is your work situation, life style, weather and climate??? And big big big---fit is key. A great item with all the tradly perfect details that doesn't fit won't look good.

Oh yeah--and shop the Thrift Exchange.



prod said:


> I apologize if this is in the forum already, but search didn't produce any viable results.
> 
> What would be the best (both economical & long-sighted) for someone starting out with trad, and on a limited budget?
> 
> 1. Save for the name brand essential pieces
> 2. Thrift your way (knowing that my knowledge of brands is elementary)
> 3. Shopping discounted brands (le, uniqlo, target) for pieces
> 
> or some combination? I guess what I'm asking is how did you build that well-rounded trad wardrobe in the beginning?


----------



## thegovteach

Just curious....What year did Brooks Brothers stop making their shirts in the USA?


----------



## Duvel

Don't they still make the oxford cloth button down dress shirt in the U.S. of A.? I believe my shirts say so.


----------



## thegovteach

Duvel said:


> Don't they still make the oxford cloth button down dress shirt in the U.S. of A.? I believe my shirts say so.


 I know the non-irons are made in Maylasia...


----------



## Duvel

I see. I don't the answer. All I know is that the regular cotton ones are still made in the United States.


----------



## orange fury

Random thought- what would you wear with an orange dress shirt? Not solid, but like orange/white Bengal stripe or orange check. My first thought is navy trousers (I know, hiss and boo) or a navy blazer, but what tie? or a tie at all?

or am I crazy and no one would wear an orange shirt?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

orange fury said:


> Random thought- what would you wear with an orange dress shirt? Not solid, but like orange/white Bengal stripe or orange check. My first thought is navy trousers (I know, hiss and boo) or a navy blazer, but what tie? or a tie at all?
> 
> or am I crazy and no one would wear an orange shirt?


Can you post a picture, taken in natural light? What sort of orange? Summery orange-juice orange? Tangerine? Pumpkin? Orange alert?

Some sort of muted green, perhaps, or a more greenish shade of khaki? Someone posted photos earlier this week of yellow OCBD with chinos, and as long as the chinos' color offers sufficient contrast, that seems to work. Since blue and orange are complementary colors, blue trousers might offer too stark a contrast.


----------



## Roycru

orange fury said:


> Random thought- what would you wear with an orange dress shirt? Not solid, but like orange/white Bengal stripe or orange check. My first thought is navy trousers (I know, hiss and boo) or a navy blazer, but what tie? or a tie at all?
> 
> or am I crazy and no one would wear an orange shirt?


This tie might look interesting with an orange and white Bengal stripe shirt (or even with an orange shirt).......


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I'd wear that with black trousers.


----------



## Orgetorix

orange fury said:


> Random thought- what would you wear with an orange dress shirt? Not solid, but like orange/white Bengal stripe or orange check. My first thought is navy trousers (I know, hiss and boo) or a navy blazer, but what tie? or a tie at all?
> 
> or am I crazy and no one would wear an orange shirt?


I'd wear a blue tie, anything from like a dark royal to navy.

Navy/dark blue knit or grenadine; or something like this color (preferably without the red accents):


----------



## orange fury

Thanks for the feedback guys, these are the two shirts in question that if bought last night (seller photos):




After thinking about it, the check will be worn tieless and the stripe I'll experiment with, but I figured both would look okay with a navy blazer. The stripe specifically I was going to try with my DB navy blazer


----------



## CMDC

^I think those, paired with light grey trousers, would work great w/a blazer.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Navy blazer with any trouser that works with the blazer. I would avoid chinos, personally. Tan gabardines would look nice. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Brigadier Cheape said:


> Navy blazer with any trouser that works with the blazer. I would avoid chinos, personally. Tan gabardines would look nice.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Too much yellow from the khaki color and the orange color?


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

I suppose tan can be rather subjective. I imagined something like light taupe or British tan. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LeeLo

Sorry if this has been asked before, but I can't seem to find any info on it - what is the difference between the BB shirts with the label that has cursive script and the shirts with the label that says "makers & merchants," etc. in a circular formation? I have OCBDs several of each but can't figure it out on my own.


----------



## Dr. D

LeeLo said:


> Sorry if this has been asked before, but I can't seem to find any info on it - what is the difference between the BB shirts with the label that has cursive script and the shirts with the label that says "makers & merchants," etc. in a circular formation? I have OCBDs several of each but can't figure it out on my own.


Here is a thread with a lot of great information on BB OCBD labels:
https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...nlined-interfaced-lined&p=1025705#post1025705

And another one:
https://putthison.com/post/49779346900/dating-brooks-brothers-shirts-i-was-cleaning-up-my


----------



## LeeLo

Dr. D said:


> Here is a thread with a lot of great information on BB OCBD labels:
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...nlined-interfaced-lined&p=1025705#post1025705
> 
> And another one:
> https://putthison.com/post/49779346900/dating-brooks-brothers-shirts-i-was-cleaning-up-my


Thanks, Dr. D!


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I have a meeting with an investment advisor this afternoon. He may very well be wearing a polo. I have no need to impress him, but I want to look respectful. Can I wear a white OCBD with a navy _blazer_ and gray worsteds? Yes, blazer, with metal buttons. Cordovan longwings, repp tie.


----------



## RT-Bone

SlideGuitarist said:


> I have a meeting with an investment advisor this afternoon. He may very well be wearing a polo. I have no need to impress him, but I want to look respectful. Can I wear a white OCBD with a navy _blazer_ and gray worsteds? Yes, blazer, with metal buttons. Cordovan longwings, repp tie.


Sounds about as classic as it gets.


----------



## FLMike

SlideGuitarist said:


> I have a meeting with an investment advisor this afternoon. He may very well be wearing a polo. I have no need to impress him, but I want to look respectful. Can I wear a white OCBD with a navy _blazer_ and gray worsteds? Yes, blazer, with metal buttons. Cordovan longwings, repp tie.


Wear whatever the heck you feel like wearing, but if the advisor is coming to talk to you as a potential new client, and he shows up wearing a polo, I would seek out a different advisor. As you mentioned, it's about showing proper respect.


----------



## gamma68

SlideGuitarist said:


> I have a meeting with an investment advisor this afternoon. He may very well be wearing a polo. I have no need to impress him, but I want to look respectful. Can I wear a white OCBD with a navy _blazer_ and gray worsteds? Yes, blazer, with metal buttons. Cordovan longwings, repp tie.


I can't imagine anyone _not _thinking you would be dressed respectfully.

These types of concerns are making me slowly lose my faith in our society. Where I live, I've been appointed by the city to serve two important committees. So, as a committee member handling important city matters, I feel it is incumbent to dress professionally for all meetings. I typically wear a blazer or sport coat, tie, button-down shirt, khakis or flannel trousers, dress shoes or boots. Inevitably, one or two of my fellow committee members says "Hey, why are you so dressed up?"

I figure, if one wants to be taken seriously as a professional, then it's wise to dress as a professional.

Incidentally, last night I happened to catch part of an episode from the "Andy Griffith Show." Andy invited a new doctor in town to dine with his family and some neighbors that evening at his home. ALL THE MEN, even little Opey, wore a sport coat and tie to dinner. And this was meant to simply be an informal gathering.

The fact that people today show up to commission meetings in shorts/sandals and go to dinner in sweat pants and t-shirts shows you how far standards have fallen.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

FLCracka said:


> Wear whatever the heck you feel like wearing, but if the advisor is coming to talk to you as a potential new client, and he shows up wearing a polo, I would seek out a different advisor. As you mentioned, it's about showing proper respect.


To be fair, I first met him at a deliberately informal meeting at a coffee shop. He was strongly recommended by two acquaintances who have much more money that I, for what it's worth. The paradox of the sartorial race to the bottom is that I never feel comfortable: rather than simply dress suitably to discuss serious business, I have to worry about whether my white shirt will be taken the wrong way. Eesh. He, meanwhile, is trying to put me at ease, and has the opposite effect.

Gieves & Hawkes jacket (rather more shoulder-y than one might prefer; front darts), white OCBD (needs to soften up, so that it can roll more nicely), the repp tie you all know and love. I'm embarrassed that I even had to ask this question.


----------



## sskim3

SlideGuitarist said:


> To be fair, I first met him at a deliberately informal meeting at a coffee shop. He was strongly recommended by two acquaintances who have much more money that I, for what it's worth. The paradox of the sartorial race to the bottom is that I never feel comfortable: rather than simply dress suitably to discuss serious business, I have to worry about whether my white shirt will be taken the wrong way. Eesh. He, meanwhile, is trying to put me at ease, and has the opposite effect.
> 
> Gieves & Hawkes jacket (rather more shoulder-y than one might prefer; front darts), white OCBD (needs to soften up, so that it can roll more nicely), the repp tie you all know and love. I'm embarrassed that I even had to ask this question.


You should dress in whatever makes you comfortable. You do not need to sell yourself to an investment adviser. He needs to sell you his services. You could have worn sweatpants, fleece sweater, and man uggs and you would have been fine. All they care about is how much $$$$$ you are willing to invest with him.


----------



## ThePopinjay

sskim3 said:


> You could have worn sweatpants, fleece sweater, and man uggs and you would have been fine.


But if you ever do decide to wear that, well there's no need to post pics here. haha


----------



## SlideGuitarist

ThePopinjay said:


> But if you ever do decide to wear that, well there's no need to post pics here. haha


I have to drive both my sons to different schools in the morning, and we cut it close. One morning, out of a desperate desire not the be late, I threw on some jiu jitsu pants lying by the front door, penny loafers, and a charcoal car coat. To my horror, my older son's headmistress wanted to talk to me, and I had to step out of the car in this get-up. I suppose this balances out an earlier occasion when I came to a "Breakfast With the Headmistress" event and several moms assumed I was a foreigner because I was wearing a sports jacket. And chinos. And loafers. I.e., not jeans.

The meeting went fine. I don't believe in dressing to "impress"; that's completely contrary to Castiglione's original definition of _sprezzatura._


----------



## ThePopinjay

SlideGuitarist said:


> I have to drive both my sons to different schools in the morning, and we cut it close. One morning, out of a desperate desire not the be late, I threw on some jiu jitsu pants lying by the front door, penny loafers, and a charcoal car coat. To my horror, my older son's headmistress wanted to talk to me, and I had to step out of the car in this get-up. I suppose this balances out an earlier occasion when I came to a "Breakfast With the Headmistress" event and several moms assumed I was a foreigner because I was wearing a sports jacket. And chinos. And loafers. I.e., not jeans.
> 
> The meeting went fine. I don't believe in dressing to "impress"; that's completely contrary to Castiglione's original definition of _sprezzatura._


I can remember my parents dressing in similar disarray when they had to take my siblings and I to school. I'm sure it's not the worst the Headmistress has seen.

The moms thought you were foreign? haha I've heard a lot from the way I dress, but never that one.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

*Advice sought for shipping sport coats*

If this has been covered already, please forgive me.

What's the most effective method for shipping sport coats?

I typically use the USPS Priority flat rate boxes, but the price may be a little high and put off potential buyers from bidding on some low priced items.

Any advice for me?

Thanks.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

orange fury said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys, these are the two shirts in question that if bought last night (seller photos):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After thinking about it, the check will be worn tieless and the stripe I'll experiment with, but I figured both would look okay with a navy blazer. The stripe specifically I was going to try with my DB navy blazer


OF - I would encourage you to wear your spread collars exclusively with ties. Because they are true dress shirts I do not think that they work well in casual settings. I am also getting a little worried that you are going to abandon us for the fashion forum with your new interest in spread collars, cashmere sweaters, and cuffless chinos. Don't go to the dark side!


----------



## WillBarrett

orange fury said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys, these are the two shirts in question that if bought last night (seller photos):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After thinking about it, the check will be worn tieless and the stripe I'll experiment with, but I figured both would look okay with a navy blazer. The stripe specifically I was going to try with my DB navy blazer


I know it's not trad, but I'd wear either of those with a navy blazer, lighter trousers (tan/biege) and loafers with no socks in the summer time, especially if dining al fresco.


----------



## Duvel

Step back from the edge, OF.

I thought about expressing these concerns, as well, but I wasn't sure how it would come across. Nicely said, ocbd.



oxford cloth button down said:


> OF - I would encourage you to wear your spread collars exclusively with ties. Because they are true dress shirts I do not think that they work well in casual settings. I am also getting a little worried that you are going to abandon us for the fashion forum with your new interest in spread collars, cashmere sweaters, and cuffless chinos. Don't go to the dark side!


----------



## WillBarrett

So cuffless chinos are somehow un-trad? Hmmmph.


----------



## Duvel

Cuffed chinos are quintessentially trad, yes. Cuff your chinos, cuff your corduroys, and cuff your wool flannels as well. Cuff anything that is not a 5-pocket jeans-style of pants.



WillBarrett said:


> So cuffless chinos are somehow un-trad? Hmmmph.


----------



## SammyH

WillBarrett said:


> So cuffless chinos are somehow un-trad? Hmmmph.


I have to admit, I don't like mine cuffed either; somehow it seems too finished for what is after all a very informal pant. Instead, I roll mine up, which has many advantages - super casual, and can adjust length of pants depending upon mood and what I'm doing, etc.. Please. Don't. Crucify. Moi.


----------



## Duvel

We won't crucify you. Just don't tell us this is trad. Please. Don't.


----------



## WillBarrett

Duvel said:


> We won't crucify you. Just don't tell us this is trad. Please. Don't.


Well, damn - I'll be sure not to.


----------



## Duvel

Thank you. Unless we're talking about this. Very 80s trad, you know.










WillBarrett said:


> Well, damn - I'll be sure not to.


----------



## SammyH

Duvel said:


> We won't crucify you. Just don't tell us this is trad. Please. Don't.


LOL, thanks for sparing me 

I love making things a bit more casual - that's the way I tend to bend the rules I guess. Then again, I don't wear chinos very much except when i'm very casual anyway.


----------



## Duvel

Well, it's the 21st century. There are no rules.


----------



## SammyH

Duvel said:


> Cuffed chinos are quintessentially trad, yes. Cuff your chinos, cuff your corduroys, and cuff your wool flannels as well. Cuff anything that is not a 5-pocket jeans-style of pants.


Hate Corduroys.

Invariably cuff my Flannels and Twills and Gabardines. If it's wool it gets cuffed.

I've never worn jeans or "jeans-style" pants in my life.

Roll up and wear my chinos very casually.

Rebel. Moi.


----------



## orange fury

oxford cloth button down said:


> OF - I would encourage you to wear your spread collars exclusively with ties. Because they are true dress shirts I do not think that they work well in casual settings. I am also getting a little worried that you are going to abandon us for the fashion forum with your new interest in spread collars, cashmere sweaters, and cuffless chinos. Don't go to the dark side!





Duvel said:


> Step back from the edge, OF.
> 
> I thought about expressing these concerns, as well, but I wasn't sure how it would come across. Nicely said, ocbd.


Haha no worries guys. I like spread collars, but I still prefer my OCBDs - much of my recent purchases were the result of needing to fill some holes in my closet (the volume, on the other hand, is the result of crazy deals I couldn't pass up).

Per cuffed chinos though- I really tried to like them. I like cuffs on my dress pants, but I like chinos to pull double duty (casual or dressier), and I found that cuffs didn't feel right casually. Also, the cuffs looked horrible unironed, and I like chinos to take the place of jeans, so I prefer to wear them unironed from time to time.


----------



## FLMike

Duvel said:


> Thank you. Unless we're talking about this. Very 80s trad, you know.
> View attachment 13869


Ha. I used to "peg" my jeans in college....usually with a pair of LLB Blucher Mocs or canvas K Swiss sneakers.


----------



## Duvel

I witnessed it back then but I never undertook it myself, as even then, I was too old for trendy. I saw a lot of kids do it with their parachute pants and baggy jeans with colored Converse sneakers.



FLCracka said:


> Ha. I used to "peg" my jeans in college....usually with a pair of LLB Blucher Mocs or canvas K Swiss sneakers.


----------



## Fading Fast

Are ivory-colored or wheat-colored jeans considered Ivy? Trad? I see them worn in movies of college kids in the late '50s and pre-hippie '60s and I've seen them in advertisements form the era, but we rarely talk about them here.


----------



## Mikestyle49

oxford cloth button down said:


> OF - I would encourage you to wear your spread collars exclusively with ties. Because they are true dress shirts I do not think that they work well in casual settings. I am also getting a little worried that you are going to abandon us for the fashion forum with your new interest in spread collars, cashmere sweaters, and cuffless chinos. Don't go to the dark side!


How about semi-spread collars? can they be worn without a tie?


----------



## Duvel

I think so. I see them in the same things you mention. I see them get a lot of play over in Film Noir Talk Ivy, too.



Fading Fast said:


> Are ivory-colored or wheat-colored jeans considered Ivy? Trad? I see them worn in movies of college kids in the late '50s and pre-hippie '60s and I've seen them in advertisements form the era, but we rarely talk about them here.


----------



## Duvel

Any collar can be worn without a tie, of course. Whether it's a good look is another question. As a semi-spread collar is a dress-shirt collar, I wouldn't.



Mikestyle49 said:


> How about semi-spread collars? can they be worn without a tie?


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I think so. I see them in the same things you mention. I see them get a lot of play over in Film Noir Talk Ivy, too.


Thank you. And with that, I will post pictures in the acquisition thread of the pair of button fly ones I just purchased.


----------



## Jovan

Duvel said:


> Any collar can be worn without a tie, of course. Whether it's a good look is another question. As a semi-spread collar is a dress-shirt collar, I wouldn't.


I disagree.


----------



## Duvel

You would, I wouldn't. What's there to disagree about.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Fading Fast said:


> Are ivory-colored or wheat-colored jeans considered Ivy? Trad? I see them worn in movies of college kids in the late '50s and pre-hippie '60s and I've seen them in advertisements form the era, but we rarely talk about them here.


They seem to be an item favored by the Ivy crowd more than the trad crowd, but there are lots of examples of them in (Tan, white, maybe olive?) Take Ivy. If anyone else is looking for a pair LL Bean has limited sizes of 5 pocket Hertlings for $39.99 right now:


----------



## FLMike

Jovan said:


> I disagree.


The problem I find with wearing open semi-spread collars with a blazer...and I do it every now and then.....is that they can look great at a moment in time (see J's blurry example). However, I have not found a shirt make that doesn't eventually slip down into the blazer collar, making it look very sloppy. You either have to constantly be tugging it back up, which I find myself doing when I wear such, or just live with the sloppier look, which most guys do. Either way, not ideal and easily fixable with a BD collared shirt.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Mikestyle49 said:


> How about semi-spread collars? can they be worn without a tie?


It seems like very English thing. Edward St. Aubyn, below (I had lots of photos to choose from); most photos of Christopher Hitchens; Martin Amis...it almost seems like the default for casual contexts. I'm not voting either way, I'm just pointing this out. Yes, I see it with sweaters, too.


----------



## SammyH

SlideGuitarist said:


> It seems like very English thing. Edward St. Aubyn, below (I had lots of photos to choose from); most photos of Christopher Hitchens; Martin Amis...it almost seems like the default for casual contexts. I'm not voting either way, I'm just pointing this out. Yes, I see it with sweaters, too.


It's definitely an English thing. It's also the hedge-fund/investor "international look".

This is very typical (Grant Williams), but I can provide boatloads....


----------



## SlideGuitarist

SammyH said:


> ... It's also the hedge-fund/investor "international look".


Thanks; you just talked me out of it.


----------



## Duvel

Yes. Yuck.

I'm sure there are many looks that are "good" that are not "trad." Whether it's a valid good look depends on how much you are after the "trad" look, I guess.



SammyH said:


> It's definitely an English thing.* It's also the hedge-fund/investor "international look". *
> 
> This is very typical (Grant Williams), but I can provide boatloads....
> 
> View attachment 13882


----------



## Tilton

OF, just do it. I do it at least two days a week and it looks fine, if not good. It's very common here in DC as well as Chicago and NYC, so maybe it is more of an urban professional thing, but whatever. The trick, I've found, to avoiding the issue that FLCracka mentions is to remove the collar stays when not wearing a tie. It can also help to hit the crease at the collar opening with a low-heat iron.


----------



## SammyH

Duvel said:


> Yes. Yuck.
> 
> I'm sure there are many looks that are "good" that are not "trad." Whether it's a valid good look depends on how much you are after the "trad" look, I guess.


Well, I don't like it but I do spend time around peeps who sport that look. Not a fan. My fiancee is in the industry and often tries to get to me to dress like that. lol.


----------



## Howard

Have a question for you guys maybe you can answer it, What's the difference between a topcoat and an overcoat? Are they the same coats and what are the purposes of them?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Fading Fast said:


> Are ivory-colored or wheat-colored jeans considered Ivy? Trad? I see them worn in movies of college kids in the late '50s and pre-hippie '60s and I've seen them in advertisements form the era, but we rarely talk about them here.


I'm sure that question has been answered in the affirmative on this forum, w/r/t the Ivy League. They're also a component of an older Californian look: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/printthread.php?t=79363&pp=40&page=122.


----------



## xcubbies

I'm not sure, but thinking about it: if I wanted to layer them for maximum warmth I'm not sure which one would be on the outside.


----------



## Reuben

Howard said:


> Have a question for you guys maybe you can answer it, What's the difference between a topcoat and an overcoat? Are they the same coats and what are the purposes of them?


Overcoat is heavier and you wear it for warmth, topcoat is lighter, typically shorter, and more for rain or nasty conditions.


----------



## Fading Fast

OCBD, Duvel and SlideGuitarist: re Ivory Jeans, thank you for your responses.


----------



## MythReindeer

Would someone with Hanover LB Sheppard shoes comment on their sizing? Wide/narrow? Long/short? Etc.


----------



## red sweatpants

When should I expect the next large Brooks sale to be? Seems they have 25-40% off all items a few times per year? I'm hoping to snag a tuxedo for my wedding in October at a discounted rate (assuming these sales typically include formal wear?). Thanks!


----------



## Duvel

I am hoping for another double corporate sale to come around soon.



red sweatpants said:


> When should I expect the next large Brooks sale to be? Seems they have 25-40% off all items a few times per year? I'm hoping to snag a tuxedo for my wedding in October at a discounted rate (assuming these sales typically include formal wear?). Thanks!


----------



## barneco

Forgive me if you're already aware - a member has some BB golden fleece tuxedos in a number of sizes for sale on the exchange as we speak.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...-Informal-Trad-Thrift-Store-Exchange/page1094



red sweatpants said:


> When should I expect the next large Brooks sale to be? Seems they have 25-40% off all items a few times per year? I'm hoping to snag a tuxedo for my wedding in October at a discounted rate (assuming these sales typically include formal wear?). Thanks!


----------



## Howard

Reuben said:


> Overcoat is heavier and you wear it for warmth, topcoat is lighter, typically shorter, and more for rain or nasty conditions.


So an overcoat would be good for the winter?


----------



## FLMike

And a bathing suit would be good for the summer?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

MythReindeer said:


> Would someone with Hanover LB Sheppard shoes comment on their sizing? Wide/narrow? Long/short? Etc.


I have a pair of Hanovers (not LB Sheppard gunboats, but wingtip oxfords), and I'd say they run TTS, though perhaps a _hair_ wide.


----------



## Duvel

Yes, if it is cold outside.



Howard said:


> So an overcoat would be good for the winter?


----------



## zeppacoustic

Hahahha. This can't be real.


----------



## Duvel

This is as real as it gets, man.


----------



## gamma68

Howard said:


> So an overcoat would be good for the winter?


This forum is so full of HORRID advice.

Howard, don't listen to them. Wear your lined tweed overcoat in June, July and August. There is plenty of precedent for this. Cary Grant, Steve McQueen, George Plimpton and William F. Buckley ALL wore their overcoats on blistering summer days. Even Muffy's husband does this. Case closed.


----------



## SammyH

FLCracka said:


> And a bathing suit would be good for the summer?


Yes.

But if you're swimming in water colder than your body temperature, only tweed swim trunks are used. Shrinkage is not trad.


----------



## Duvel

SammyH said:


> Yes.
> 
> But if you're swimming in water colder than your body temperature, only tweed swim trunks are used. Shrinkage is not trad.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Does anyone have a go-to on replacement laces for tan bucks?


----------



## Duvel

Funny you should ask. I'm looking for some myself. I'm hoping to get out this weekend to the Bass outlet store and see what they have. I am finding these incredibly difficult to replace.


----------



## zeppacoustic

Yes, Bass outlet works. Wearing mine today:


----------



## Duvel

So they do have them? Cool. I went to a local shoe store today and asked to look at their shoestrings. Incredible how terrible the selection was. The sales associate asked me what I was looking for, and when I started to mention that they were for a pair of old Bass bucks, he made a loud throat clearing and looked away and walked over to other customers who'd just walked in. Pretty obvious that he didn't want me mentioning a brand the store didn't carry, but also pretty rude, I thought. I just walked out.


----------



## zeppacoustic

My outlet stocks laces. You looking for anything in particular? Could also go Amazon route.


----------



## Duvel

I hope to get to the outlet Bass this weekend to check out the laces situation (and other situations, of course).



zeppacoustic said:


> My outlet stocks laces. You looking for anything in particular? Could also go Amazon route.


----------



## FLMike

Duvel said:


> This is as real as it gets, man.


Gotta be the proverbial elephant in the room, at this point. No?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

This might merit its own (short) thread, but I first wanted to make sure it's not a dumb question. Spot ties are certainly traditional, but I don't see them in the trad WAYWT thread, perhaps only because the emphasis in on "casual" outfits, from odd tweed jackets down to duck-hunting and WFH rigs, and not generally upward in formality to suits and tuxedos. This sort of dead-traditional spot tie is for a suit; I get that (the image is from Turnbull & Asser's web site):

I have these two spotted ties (one from Brooks; the other from Burberry, and it's more maroon than the scarlet you see here); is there any reason not to wear them to work with an odd jacket?

I'm guess that large polka dots are for dressy but less conservative situations (i.e. not the office, but maybe a wedding):

ViolaMilano makes an attractive nubbly wool polka dot tie, which I can't afford, but I wonder if this sort of thing clashes with the tweedy approach (https://violamilano.com/product/4642188107/sea-dots/):


----------



## Howard

FLCracka said:


> And a bathing suit would be good for the summer?


Sorry, I guess that should've been obvious.


----------



## Howard

gamma68 said:


> This forum is so full of HORRID advice.
> 
> Howard, don't listen to them. Wear your lined tweed overcoat in June, July and August. There is plenty of precedent for this. Cary Grant, Steve McQueen, George Plimpton and William F. Buckley ALL wore their overcoats on blistering summer days. Even Muffy's husband does this. Case closed.


Now why would I want to wear an overcoat when it's 95 degrees outside?


----------



## Duvel

I think there might be some good-natured ribbing going on there. Just my guess.



Howard said:


> Now why would I want to wear an overcoat when it's 95 degrees outside?


----------



## Duvel

Slide, I think at the crux of the dotted tie question is the idea of how different levels of formality work (or don't work) together. I may be wrong, but the dotted tie feels a little more formal than other patterns, and so seems to fit the formality of a suit rather than the relative informality of a jacket. Does that make sense?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> Slide, I think at the crux of the dotted tie question is the idea of how different levels of formality work (or don't work) together. I may be wrong, but the dotted tie feels a little more formal than other patterns, and so seems to fit the formality of a suit rather than the relative informality of a jacket. Does that make sense?


I know that spot ties are formal, but I agree that even larger polka dots seem to go with a suit. I don't think I'd wear polka dots to the office either way, given their zany connotations, but I might wear them to a party or for dinner. In any case, not with the tweedier sort of rig favored here.

P.S. As if to answer my question, someone just posted a navy polka dot tie with a charcoal chalk-stripe suit: https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...ad-What-are-you-Wearing&p=1653354#post1653354

P.P.S.: And Orange Fury dressed up for his performance review: navy blazer, gray flannels, burgundy spot tie.


----------



## FiscalDean

SlideGuitarist said:


> This might merit its own (short) thread, but I first wanted to make sure it's not a dumb question. Spot ties are certainly traditional, but I don't see them in the trad WAYWT thread, perhaps only because the emphasis in on "casual" outfits, from odd tweed jackets down to duck-hunting and WFH rigs, and not generally upward in formality to suits and tuxedos. This sort of dead-traditional spot tie is for a suit; I get that (the image is from Turnbull & Asser's web site):
> 
> ViolaMilano makes an attractive nubbly wool polka dot tie, which I can't afford, but I wonder if this sort of thing clashes with the tweedy approach (https://violamilano.com/product/4642188107/sea-dots/):


I'd wear this with a tweed SC without hesitation. The texture of this tie would work well with the texture of a tweed SC.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

FLCracka said:


> The problem I find with wearing open semi-spread collars with a blazer...and I do it every now and then.....is that they can look great at a moment in time (see J's blurry example). However, I have not found a shirt make that doesn't eventually slip down into the blazer collar, making it look very sloppy. You either have to constantly be tugging it back up, which I find myself doing when I wear such, or just live with the sloppier look, which most guys do. Either way, not ideal and easily fixable with a BD collared shirt.


I've worn this look and to avoid the collar problem, I've used magnetic collar stays. I don't wear do it often, but when I do, it's usually in the warmer months with a double vented blazer and creates a more European look. 
I'd rather wear a button down collar with a trad blazer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Howard

I want to know what's a peacoat, I've seen that on some clothes sites, Is that also for cold weather too like an overcoat?


----------



## Duvel

Howard, a pea coat is more casual than an overcoat. You can't really wear it over blazers and such, as it is cut shorter and often is slimmer fitting. It should fit over a sweater, though. It is also meant to wear in cold weather.


----------



## orange fury

Per the conversation about pindot ties- this is about as big/spaced out as I'll wear generally:









This is a tie by TM Lewin, anything bigger than this and I start to feel self conscious. I typically prefer true pindots (like my Burberry tie I wore on Thursday), because I tend to reserve dots for more formal settings and repp stripes for more casual settings.


----------



## Jovan

I'm wearing a tie just like that right now!


----------



## LonelyAreTheBrave

In regard to the Brooks Brothers Three Button Sack 1818 Blazer: Is it essentially a Southwick Douglas Model? On the model it looks a little short and tight.


----------



## Jovan

They always put a shorter length than they should on the models now. There's little to no quality control in the photographs.


----------



## xcubbies

Howard said:


> I want to know what's a peacoat, I've seen that on some clothes sites, Is that also for cold weather too like an overcoat?


More like a topcoat.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> Howard, a pea coat is more casual than an overcoat. You can't really wear it over blazers and such, as it is cut shorter and often is slimmer fitting. It should fit over a sweater, though. It is also meant to wear in cold weather.


So I can wear it while working outside doing carts.


----------



## Howard

xcubbies said:


> More like a topcoat.


so a topcoat, overcoat and a peacoat are the same thing?


----------



## Duvel

They are all coats.



Howard said:


> so a topcoat, overcoat and a peacoat are the same thing?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> They are all coats.


Can't argue with that: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=peacoat#


----------



## Roycru

Yes, they are all coats, but if your coat has arms, it might look something like this.......


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> They are all coats.


Thanks Duvel, just checking.


----------



## Duvel

No problem. Glad to help. A wool pea coat will be very warm, by the way, and also quite stylish.



Howard said:


> Thanks Duvel, just checking.


----------



## FLMike

Howard said:


> So I can wear it while working outside doing carts.


I think a pea coat would be an excellent choice for wearing while outside doing carts. It will keep you warm, but is shorter than a traditional overcoat, thus allowing for good range of motion.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> No problem. Glad to help. A wool pea coat will be very warm, by the way, and also quite stylish.


I'm thinking of getting one with my tax refund.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I have a younger coworker, just hired out of Michigan Tech, who wants clothing advice! I told him, get moleskins! It's cold enough for them here in VA right now; I can't believe he wore jeans to walk to class in the Upper Peninsula. But whatever. He just bought a pair of chukkas on my advice. Where can he get moleskins, other than Land's End, which offers only the mud-brown color right now? This is someone on a limited budget. Even Peter Christian might be a little rich for him.

Failing that, it should be easy to find fun corduroys for < $50.


----------



## Jovan

Does anyone know a good source for 3" silk knit ties, preferably in a plainer knit with a square bottom? I can't seem to find anything wider than 2.75" anymore, which is a shame because the 2.25-2.5" ones I have don't look very proportionate next to the wide lapels I've begun to favour.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Jovan said:


> Does anyone know a good source for 3" silk knit ties, preferably in a plainer knit with a square bottom? I can't seem to find anything wider than 2.75" anymore, which is a shame because the 2.25-2.5" ones I have don't look very proportionate next to the wide lapels I've begun to favour.


I have some three inch ones from The Knottery. My only compaint is they're way too long. Actually the only knit ties I have found that are a normal length are Land's End, which might be my favorite and I think tie a better knot than my Press knits. But I think those are narrower than 3".


----------



## fshguy

I found a couple of full-width knits at Belk last fall. They were the house brand, Saddlebred, but seem relatively well made and form a nice knot.


----------



## Duvel

Nerdy necktie knot question: What different kinds of knots do you use? I default to the four-in-hand because I can handle it even before the caffeine has kicked in. However, a couple of my newer used ties seem a little shorter than what I'm used to, and this gives me a smaller knot than I like. Should I go to a half-Windsor or something?


----------



## SammyH

Duvel said:


> Nerdy necktie knot question: What different kinds of knots do you use? I default to the four-in-hand because I can handle it even before the caffeine has kicked in. However, a couple of my newer used ties seem a little shorter than what I'm used to, and this gives me a smaller knot than I like. *Should I go to a half-Windsor or something*?


If you want to ruin your life and be the cause of untold misery heaped upon the progeny of your progeny of your progeny, as a kind of Ancestral Sin, until the Day of Doom.

Four-in-Hand. Always. For one thing, it's asymmetrical. Your descendants will thank you.


----------



## Duvel

I love the four in hand. But as I say, I don't get good results with a couple of ties. I need to pay more attention to how long the tie is before I pick it up and this wouldn't happen, but in the meantime, just wondering if anybody's found the answer in a different knot.



SammyH said:


> If you want to ruin your life and be the cause of untold misery heaped upon the progeny of your progeny of your progeny, as a kind of Ancestral Sin, until the Day of Doom.
> 
> Four-in-Hand. Always. For one thing, it's asymmetrical. Your descendants will thank you.


----------



## FLMike

Duvel said:


> I love the four in hand. But as I say, I don't get good results with a couple of ties. I need to pay more attention to how long the tie is before I pick it up and this wouldn't happen, but in the meantime, just wondering if anybody's found the answer in a different knot.


Maybe the double FIH, aka the Columba knot.


----------



## August West

Duvel said:


> Nerdy necktie knot question: What different kinds of knots do you use? I default to the four-in-hand because I can handle it even before the caffeine has kicked in. However, a couple of my newer used ties seem a little shorter than what I'm used to, and this gives me a smaller knot than I like. Should I go to a half-Windsor or something?


the double four in hand will give you a little more of a beefy knot while still maintaining the charm of the four in hand.


----------



## Duvel

Good suggestion. I've used that in the past, actually, with pretty good results.



FLCracka said:


> Maybe the double FIH, aka the Columba knot.


----------



## MythReindeer

I have some LLB blucher mocs in green suede that need new laces. I have been using some leather cord that I bought at a Michael's craft store, but it eventually breaks at the spot where it is tied. Does anyone have a good replacement? I like leather laces.


----------



## ran23

How are the Land's End Polos?? I see them down to $10 often. I am not slim fit, but not heavy, 61 yrs.


----------



## Howard

How do you get that snow residue from my boots? It's that white chalky look you see on black boots and leaves a white stain after all that trudging in snow and ice.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

August West said:


> the double four in hand will give you a little more of a beefy knot while still maintaining the charm of the four in hand.


A bulkier knot will push the button collar up better, with a thinner tie, helping to give you the notorious roll. It's my go-to knot now, after seeing (I think) Gamma use it. Or StColumba. One of those guys!


----------



## sbdivemaster

Howard said:


> How do you get that snow residue from my boots? It's that white chalky look you see on black boots and leaves a white stain after all that trudging in snow and ice.


1. Mix two parts water with one part vinegar in a small jar. Dip a clean, soft rag into the vinegar solution and use it to gently wipe away any salt from the surface of the shoes. Remove the vinegar solution with a water-soaked cloth.

2. Apply a small amount of saddle soap to a moist sponge and work it into the leather using small circular motions. Use a clean, dry cloth to buff the shoes and remove any excess saddle soap.

3. Allow the shoes to dry in a warm dry space, away from any direct heat sources, such as a radiator or fireplaces.

4. Condition the shoes with moisturizer of your choice.

5. Treat shoes with some type of waterproofing, like Sno-Seal or Shoe Grease, to prevent salt stains in the future.


----------



## Duvel

I've used that method for a number of years as well on smaller ties. I'll give it a shot with these. There doesn't seem to be a better suggestion. I thought about the half-windsor, which I've used for spread collar shirts with suits and such. But somehow it doesn't seem right with and OCBD.

QUOTE=SlideGuitarist;1656615]A bulkier knot will push the button collar up better, with a thinner tie, helping to give you the notorious roll. It's my go-to knot now, after seeing (I think) Gamma use it. Or StColumba. One of those guys![/QUOTE]


----------



## Howard

sbdivemaster said:


> 1. Mix two parts water with one part vinegar in a small jar. Dip a clean, soft rag into the vinegar solution and use it to gently wipe away any salt from the surface of the shoes. Remove the vinegar solution with a water-soaked cloth.
> 
> 2. Apply a small amount of saddle soap to a moist sponge and work it into the leather using small circular motions. Use a clean, dry cloth to buff the shoes and remove any excess saddle soap.
> 
> 3. Allow the shoes to dry in a warm dry space, away from any direct heat sources, such as a radiator or fireplaces.
> 
> 4. Condition the shoes with moisturizer of your choice.
> 
> 5. Treat shoes with some type of waterproofing, like Sno-Seal or Shoe Grease, to prevent salt stains in the future.


Thanks I might try the first option.


----------



## Howard

I've had this jacket for a while but I don't if this Adidas jacket is either a jacket you wear in the Winter,Spring or Fall? It's a light jacket so I assume it must be for those cool days.


----------



## Duvel

Such matters are situational, Howard. Let your own best judgement be your guide.


Howard said:


> I've had this jacket for a while but I don't if this Adidas jacket is either a jacket you wear in the Winter,Spring or Fall? It's a light jacket so I assume it must be for those cool days.


----------



## Duvel

Went with the four in hand. Yes, the knot is smaller than I like. Some knots are bigger than other knots.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Howard said:


> Thanks I might try the first option.


After the first option, you will want to do all the other options to bring the shoes back up to peak condition.


----------



## Howard

sbdivemaster said:


> After the first option, you will want to do all the other options to bring the shoes back up to peak condition.


I tried the first option and after that dabbed on some shoe polish, it worked a little bit.


----------



## FLMike

Howard said:


> I tried the first option and after that dabbed on some shoe polish, it worked a little bit.


Those weren't options. They were steps....in a process.


----------



## Duvel

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.


----------



## ThePopinjay

Duvel said:


> . But somehow it doesn't seem right with and OCBD.


Here is one of my favorite photos, the men of J. Press. The neckties in this photo are a mix of half-windsor and four-in-hand, as you can see, it's a good knot for a thin tie.


----------



## FLMike

Duvel said:


> What we've got here is a failure to communicate.


:fool:


----------



## Duvel

Popinjay, how can you distinguish the kinds of knots in this photo?



ThePopinjay said:


> Here is one of my favorite photos, the men of J. Press. The neckties in this photo are a mix of half-windsor and four-in-hand, as you can see, it's a good knot for a thin tie.


----------



## straw sandals

I'll take a stab here. Lower row, left side, is a half windsor. It's a larger, beefier, but still asymmetrical knot. The gentleman directly above him (back row, second from left) is wearing a four-in-hand: slender, skinny, asymmetrical. If you imagine the lower end of the knot as the bottom of a triangle, this angle is much smaller in a four-in-hand vs. a half windsor. 

That said, the difference between these two knots on these 60's-style slender ties is very subtle indeed. There's less material, so even a half-windsor looks restrained by today's standards.


----------



## ThePopinjay

straw sandals said:


> I'll take a stab here. Lower row, left side, is a half windsor. It's a larger, beefier, but still asymmetrical knot. The gentleman directly above him (back row, second from left) is wearing a four-in-hand: slender, skinny, asymmetrical. If you imagine the lower end of the knot as the bottom of a triangle, this angle is much smaller in a four-in-hand vs. a half windsor.
> 
> That said, the difference between these two knots on these 60's-style slender ties is very subtle indeed. There's less material, so even a half-windsor looks restrained by today's standards.


I can't speak for Paul and Irving, although I do believe they are two different knots. I suspect Irving on the left has tied the FIH, as it looks asymmetrical to my eye, while the half-windsor should not. I really like Paul's knot which looks like maybe he double wrapped it, i.e. the double four-in-hand. But I notice the salesman second from the right (I apologize, I only know Paul and Irving in this pic), has tied a half-windsor and maybe the gentleman next to him as well. The knot looks less elongated, more triangular, and more symmetrical.

Edit: There's a bigger, better pic of this in the book Ivy Style: Radical Conformists where I first noticed the knots.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

ThePopinjay said:


> ...the book Ivy Style: Radical Conformists where I first noticed the knots.


I love sentences on this forum that start with, "I need to get...," but I need to get that book. Thanks a bunch!


----------



## ThePopinjay

SlideGuitarist said:


> I love sentences on this forum that start with, "I need to get...," but I need to get that book. Thanks a bunch!


Honestly it's really awesome.


----------



## bignilk

Sport jacket or orphan?

https://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=251824010608&alt=web


----------



## Reuben

bignilk said:


> Sport jacket or orphan?
> 
> https://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=251824010608&alt=web


Sportcoat, and a nice, springy one at that.


----------



## Oldsport

Sport-coat. The high contrast buttons are a clue. That's a nice coat.


----------



## bignilk

Thanks gents. I was thinking sport coat, but wanted to be safe.


----------



## DLW

I'm curious as to what time frame Brooks Brothers used this label.


----------



## Ensiferous

Tweed McVay said:


> I'm curious as to what time frame Brooks Brothers used this label.


Tweed, I can't attest to your's specifically, but I bought 3 lambswool cardigans from BB (navy, tan, burgundy) somewhere around 1988-1990. They had that exact label.


----------



## DLW

Ensiferous, Thanks for your input. I thought the label might be mid 80's or there about. Just before, or at the beginning, of the Marks and Spencer era.


----------



## Duvel

Has anyone tried moving the buttons on a button-down collar, to improve the roll and such? I picked up a vintage-y Arrow pinpoint button-down that boasts a generous length for collar points but fails a bit in the roll department. I'm wondering if moving the buttons up a bit would improve the roll (i.e., removing the buttons, resewing them higher up, closer to the collar). Thanks.

EDIT: Ah, well, in the meantime, I have sought and I have found: https://www.ivy-style.com/tips-from-charlie-how-to-rock-the-roll.html

I'm going to try this.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Has anyone tried moving the buttons on a button-down collar, to improve the roll and such? I picked up a vintage-y Arrow pinpoint button-down that boasts a generous length for collar points but fails a bit in the roll department. I'm wondering if moving the buttons up a bit would improve the roll (i.e., removing the buttons, resewing them higher up, closer to the collar). Thanks.
> 
> EDIT: Ah, well, in the meantime, I have sought and I have found: https://www.ivy-style.com/tips-from-charlie-how-to-rock-the-roll.html
> 
> I'm going to try this.


Makes sense. Also, very funny that George Peppard's charter from "Breakfast at Tiffany's" is used as he basically is a walking history lesson in Ivy dressing in that movie.


----------



## Duvel

Agree!



Fading Fast said:


> Makes sense. Also, very funny that George Peppard's charter from "Breakfast at Tiffany's" is used as *he basically is a walking history lesson in Ivy dressing in that movie*.


----------



## MythReindeer

Is there a general rule for sizing loafers, e.g. "half a size down from Brannock?"


----------



## Jovan

ThePopinjay said:


> Here is one of my favorite photos, the men of J. Press. The neckties in this photo are a mix of half-windsor and four-in-hand, as you can see, it's a good knot for a thin tie.


This is why I think it's better to have a fairly robust interlining on a tie, even narrower ones. I used to be of the opposite opinion... for some reason. My thought pattern must have been, "It's the '60s! They had everything figured out with clothing." :cold:

But I am inclined to side with Duvel on this. Something about a symmetrical tie knot looks off with an unlined, relaxed collar such as the button-down.


----------



## knucklehead

Will someone please tell me where I can find the instructions for removing shirt collar stains? I'm pretty sure it involves oxy clean, bleach and soaking in a bucket. I've searched this forum high and low without success. My collars and I will be forever grateful.


----------



## Duvel

Are you talking about from your own wear, as opposed to cleaning a thrifted shirt, etc.? I scrub my collars and shirt cuffs with a bar of natural hand soap before I wash them. If I still see dirt or stain after that, I use a little Shout or other product. That usually does it.


----------



## Orgetorix

I rub some of this Oxi-Clean gel stick on and scrub it in with a brush. Has always worked for me.

I use the more involved vinegar/Oxi-Clean soaking method for the yellow underarm antiperspirant stains that are really hard to get out.


----------



## knucklehead

Hooray. Many thanks to you both!


----------



## Duvel

I've learned that it is important to do this routinely, i.e., before every washing. Otherwise, there's a chance that normal washing will help set the stain.


----------



## Fading Fast

Orgetorix said:


> I rub some of this Oxi-Clean gel stick on and scrub it in with a brush. Has always worked for me.


+1 keeps my collars looking pretty clean.


----------



## MythReindeer

I hit my collars with Shout/etc. every couple of washings and the regular treatment really does help.



Duvel said:


> I've learned that it is important to do this routinely, i.e., before every washing. Otherwise, there's a chance that normal washing will help set the stain.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

IIRC, the only time I've seen Royal Stewart tartan neckties is around Christmas. Am I right about that? 

I find this shantung tie quite fetching, and am tempted to make an offer, but I wonder if this crimson and conifer green combination is simply too festive to be very useful:


----------



## mhj

It's pretty Christmas-y looking to me even though it's summer fabric.


----------



## fshguy

SlideGuitarist said:


> IIRC, the only time I've seen Royal Stewart tartan neckties is around Christmas. Am I right about that?
> 
> I find this shantung tie quite fetching, and am tempted to make an offer, but I wonder if this crimson and conifer green combination is simply too festive to be very useful:


I would snatch it in a heartbeat, but my company hosts an annual Christmas in July cocktail event.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> I've learned that it is important to do this routinely, i.e., before every washing. Otherwise, there's a chance that normal washing will help set the stain.


Duvel, what's the difference between a spray one and using a gel for the shirt collar or are they the same thing?


----------



## Duvel

I don't know for certain, Howard, but I think they are the same thing, chemically and so on, but just in different forms.



Howard said:


> Duvel, what's the difference between a spray one and using a gel for the shirt collar or are they the same thing?


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

While we're on this topic, here's something that's been rolling around my head for a while and am curious what the group thinks:

I don't wash my shirts, or really any of my clothes, with the frequency that most? folks do. There's a few reasons for this; I wear undershirts, it's winter, laziness, resource conservation, septic system concerns, I don't sweat profusely, unless I'm at the gym, then of course I'm not in an OCBD, and of course the notion that a garment's lifespan is shortened by each cleaning but not necessarily by each wearing.

However, I have of course noticed that the collars and cuffs are dingier after multiple wearings compared to a single wear/wash routine, sometimes to the point of requiring a pre-treat as discussed above.

I'm wondering if the group thinks it may in fact be better for the garment's longevity to wash it more frequently, but be able to go more mild with respect to the detergent/pre-treat required to get it clean? I guess it somewhat boils down to whether a person considers the mechanical aspects (wetting, agitating, stretching, folding of the cotton fibers, and subsequent drying/shrinking) of cleaning to be more detrimental than the chemical aspects.

I suppose another scenario is also worth considering; whether it really matters if the insides of the collars/cuffs are actually visibly clean, as these areas aren't routinely exposed, particularly for adherents of TNSIL methods?



Duvel said:


> I don't know for certain, Howard, but I think they are the same thing, chemically and so on, but just in different forms.


----------



## Dr. D

knucklehead said:


> Will someone please tell me where I can find the instructions for removing shirt collar stains? I'm pretty sure it involves oxy clean, bleach and soaking in a bucket. I've searched this forum high and low without success. My collars and I will be forever grateful.


Here are the instructions that were posted on SF and then again at Put This On - I have found this method works extremely well on some thrifted shirts that had severely yellowed collars. A word of caution - the vinegar step will etch MOP buttons!
https://putthison.com/post/441812762/cleaningshirts

*How to Clean Shirts*


 Soak shirt in a solution made from one gallon hot water (as hot as it will come out of the faucet) and one cup of vinegar. Let the shirt soak for 30 mins to 2 hours.
 Rinse shirts, and squeeze out excess water. Empty bucket and rinse. In a cup, prepare a concentrated Oxy-Clean solution. Make sure to use the Oxy-Clean granules that come in the tub. Make the solution about 10 parts HOT water to one part O-C. Usually this amounts to two scoops of O-C (using the provided scoop) per 4-6 ounces of water. You want this to be very concentrated.
 Apply the strong solution generously to the stained areas. Place the shirts in a bucket (so that the solution doesn't flow away, or dry) with the stained areas towards the bottom of the bucket so they stay nice and covered in the solution. Allow to soak overnight. It can also help to use an old toothbrush and scrub the stained areas every hour or so, if you've got the time.
 In the morning, remove the shirts from bucket. Fill the bucket with a gallon of hot water, and two scoops of the Oxy-Clean (basically, follow the recipe on the package for a general cleaning solution) and mix well. Place the shirts in the bucket, and soak for 2-24 hours. This just helps to remove any trace of stain. You might want to stir the shirts around with your hands after you put them in the bucket with the weaker solution just to remove some of the stronger solution that is still on the shirts.
 Remove, and wash/rinse in the regular cycle on your washing machine.


----------



## Duvel

TDO, kinda hear ya on that. I wash my shirts more often in the warm months, as I ride my bicycle to work or walk. I sweat a whole lot less in winter, and wash my shirts much, much less.


----------



## orange fury

I wash shirts each time I wear them, but I wash only with cold water, on gentle cycle, with All Free and Clear liquid detergent - then hang dry. The only clothes that ever see the inside of the dryer are undershirts and underwear


----------



## ThatDudeOrion

orange fury said:


> I wash shirts each time I wear them, but I wash only with cold water, on gentle cycle, with All Free and Clear liquid detergent - then hang dry. The only clothes that ever see the inside of the dryer are undershirts and underwear


Im right there with you, and now I even hang dry my undershirts and boxers because I noticed they kept shrinking with each dry cycle regardless of their respective ad copy stating they're preshrunk yadda yadda, I stopped putting anything I care about in the dryer when I had my eyes opened to the fact that the stuff you get in the lint trap is your clothes disintegrating.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

mhj said:


> It's pretty Christmas-y looking to me even though it's summer fabric.


Fair enough. So what about the Royal Stewart tartan, say https://www.samhober.com/atkinsons-...-royal-stewart-tartan-irish-poplin-tie-9.html?


----------



## RT-Bone

Is this jacket too short, or do you think it's just poor photo styling?


----------



## Duvel

I'm guessing it's the photo styling/modeling. You could query LLB customer service for the garment dimensions in your normal size. They're usually very responsive and helpful.



RT-Bone said:


> Is this jacket too short, or do you think it's just poor photo styling?


----------



## fred johnson

RT-Bone said:


> Is this jacket too short, or do you think it's just poor photo styling?


Looks a little too short for my taste.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> I don't know for certain, Howard, but I think they are the same thing, chemically and so on, but just in different forms.


With gels, they can get very messy so it's better to use a spray.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> TDO, kinda hear ya on that. I wash my shirts more often in the warm months, as I ride my bicycle to work or walk. I sweat a whole lot less in winter, and wash my shirts much, much less.


I sweat more during the hot summer months so I'm washing my shirts more often and during the winter I wash them less.


----------



## Tourist Trophy Garage

RT-Bone said:


> Is this jacket too short, or do you think it's just poor photo styling?


Too short for the model wearing it, but that doesn't necessarily indicate the jacket is cut too short. Best to contact the seller and get measurements relative to the size you would normally order.


----------



## Duvel

Yes. ^



Duvel said:


> I'm guessing it's the photo styling/modeling. You could query LLB customer service for the garment dimensions in your normal size. They're usually very responsive and helpful.


----------



## ran23

With Mid Grey, charcoal Grey and Dress Khakis, are dark of a brown shoe should I go? or Walnut or burgundy?


----------



## Howard

I have this Chaps Overcoat and I couldn't find the front pockets or front zippers, Is that the way it was made without pockets?


----------



## WillBarrett

I've got a black/brown/grey glen plaid lambswool sports coat to wear tomorrow.

Obviously I'm going to wear an OCBD - but what about tie? Thoughts on pattern and material?


----------



## Duvel

What are your choices?



WillBarrett said:


> I've got a black/brown/grey glen plaid lambswool sports coat to wear tomorrow.
> 
> Obviously I'm going to wear an OCBD - but what about tie? Thoughts on pattern and material?


----------



## DLW

I found this tie thrifting last weekend and have not seen a tie that list the weight of the silk. I'll assume made for the American market because the silk is in oz's.
My questions: is the tie ancient madder, is 40oz silk of superior quality, who is Brixton LTD? I can find a Brixton LTD on the 
web, but feel this Brixton has not produced a tie. https://www.brixton.com/


----------



## DLW

While I'm at it, I have another question. I found a pair of Bill's Khakis with genuine leather trim on the side pockets and rear pocket tabs. Laundry instructions advise washing. Do I want to wash a pair of pants with leather trim, wont this cause the leather to disintegrate?


----------



## orange fury

Tweed McVay said:


> I found this tie thrifting last weekend and have not seen a tie that list the weight of the silk. I'll assume made for the American market because the silk is in oz's.
> My questions: is the tie ancient madder, is 40oz silk of superior quality, who is Brixton LTD? I can find a Brixton LTD on the
> web, but feel this Brixton has not produced a tie. https://www.brixton.com/


Per the tie: it appears to be ancient madder, but the easiest way to tell would be by feel - ancient madder will have a "chalky" hand to it. I'm not sure about Brixton Ltd, but the tag you show is identical to the tag on one of my Ferrell Reed ties - i wonder if it's a "Ferrell Reed for Brixton Ltd"? Mine is Ferrell Reed for the Toggery Shop.

I will say Ferrell Reed is one of my favorite tie brands fwiw, if that's in fact what it is.


----------



## DLW

Orange fury,
Please forgive my ignorance, as I’m not following “chalky” hand. When I hear chalky, I think of dust, not your extended meaning. I’m at loss of how you are trying to educate


----------



## orange fury

Tweed McVay said:


> Orange fury,
> Please forgive my ignorance, as I'm not following "chalky" hand. When I hear chalky, I think of dust, not your extended meaning. I'm at loss of how you are trying to educate


No you're fine, it's hard to describe lol. It should quite literally feel like you're touching chalk, or dust (kind of "dry", if that makes sense). From the matte/muted appearance, yours does look like my ancient madder ties. The best way to tell would be to find a tie tagged as ancient madder and compare the feel of each. Once you feel it, you'll be able to recognize it immediately from that point on.


----------



## Spin Evans

Tweed McVay said:


> Orange fury,
> Please forgive my ignorance, as I'm not following "chalky" hand. When I hear chalky, I think of dust, not your extended meaning. I'm at loss of how you are trying to educate


As OF said, you'll know it when you feel it, and there is no other word that is more appropriate. It's a unique tactile experience.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Just Google "ancient madder"; you'll turn up G. Bruce Boyer talking about it, and something from Drake's website. _Everyone_ calls it "chalky." It just feels different. I've bought a number of ties on eBay that were billed as such; they clearly are not, but they were nice nonetheless. Clearly the buyers thought it was a _color_.

However, I just bought my first true ancient madder tie from Brooks Bros. (yay, clearance!), and I could feel the "chalkiness" instantly. Also, the colors are muted, but in a very complex way. I would have a tough time precisely pinning a name to any of them.


----------



## DLW

Thank you gentlemen for input. I feel I have a comprehension now. I'll have to check if I have an ancient madder to compare.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Does anyone have any experience with removing shoulder padding from a blazer? I have a lovely Harris Tweed blazer that has just a bit too much shoulder for me and I'm considering trying to perform a little surgery on it.


----------



## Oldsport

YSR, eagerly awaiting the answer(s) to your question!

Edit: A quick google search yielded this AskAndy Link:

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?53715-Removing-Padded-Shoulders


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

Thanks for the link!



Triathlete said:


> YSR, eagerly awaiting the answer(s) to your question!
> 
> Edit: A quick google search yielded this AskAndy Link:
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?53715-Removing-Padded-Shoulders


----------



## Orgetorix

It can be done by a competent tailor. The shoulder seam has to be taken up a bit to compensate for the removed padding if you don't wan't diagonal ripples at the shoulder. Sometimes the armhole has to be recut and deepened a bit because of the shoulder seam alteration.


----------



## C. Sharp

I would say it was made by Ferrell Reed also. I would say it was madder also. FWIW-I have seen old english silks that are marked not to exceed (so many ounces) I think there is some sort of archaic way of measuring silk weight in which it is weight per so much cloth.



orange fury said:


> Per the tie: it appears to be ancient madder, but the easiest way to tell would be by feel - ancient madder will have a "chalky" hand to it. I'm not sure about Brixton Ltd, but the tag you show is identical to the tag on one of my Ferrell Reed ties - i wonder if it's a "Ferrell Reed for Brixton Ltd"? Mine is Ferrell Reed for the Toggery Shop.
> 
> I will say Ferrell Reed is one of my favorite tie brands fwiw, if that's in fact what it is.


----------



## ThePopinjay

C. Sharp said:


> I would say it was made by Ferrell Reed also. I would say it was madder also. FWIW-I have seen old english silks that are marked not to exceed (so many ounces) I think there is some sort of archaic way of measuring silk weight in which it is weight per so much cloth.


If any one wanted to read up on the Momme, the unit of measurement for silk, I got into this sort of stuff quite a bit in some textile classes last semester. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Units_of_textile_measurement


----------



## ran23

I got a BB Makers USA, 100% sillk tie today. Doing a search on 'makers' tie, some show the same label. this is almost navy blue with a pattern of French Horns. probably 10+ yrs old.


----------



## DLW

I stumbled across a pair of PRL wool-silk blend houndstooth suspenders today. The solid brass clips aren’t scratched, just need a polish. How do I, or what do I use to clean the brass clips to prevent residue from getting on/staining/damaging the fabric?


----------



## MythReindeer

Does anyone have tips for removing tongue pad...remains from the inside of a shoe? I bought some used loafers that once had tongue pads that were later removed. It's a bit sticky and there are little clumps of fibers that are difficult to pull away. Since it's the inside of the shoe, would acetone be okay?


----------



## smmrfld

MythReindeer said:


> Does anyone have tips for removing tongue pad...remains from the inside of a shoe? I bought some used loafers that once had tongue pads that were later removed. It's a bit sticky and there are little clumps of fibers that are difficult to pull away. Since it's the inside of the shoe, would acetone be okay?


Use GooGone. Great stuff.


----------



## orange fury

Wanted to get fit opinions. I bought this shirt jac from LL Bean Signature last week - I really like the autumn color palette and the fact that it's lined. Ideally I would've bought a small, but the medium was the smallest size they had at the time (now they don't even have that). Aside from the sleeves being a bit long, I felt like it fit okay, but I wanted to get other opinions on how the fit looked.

Open:


Closed:


----------



## Fading Fast

OF, It really depends on how you want to wear it. The medium on you is absolutely inside the appropriate fit window for the garment - it looks good and properly scaled to your jeans. And - and this is what I meant by how you want to wear it - it looks like you could easily fit a heavy sweater under it. 

So it comes down to if you want it to be able to be worn with something heavy underneath or not. If you went down to the small size, you would have a tighter silhouette, but probably not be comfortable with a heavy sweater under it. 

Last thought, the item has a lumberjack vibe, which is the opposite of today's slim fit clothes aesthetic - so I think, in medium, you are probably wearing it closer to its intended fit.

All that said, it's a really nice looking jacket. As you noted, great autumnal colors.


----------



## ran23

I followed a link to Tie-NeckTie.com, but for $10.00 I guess this is not a good place to buy??


----------



## Orgetorix

Maybe, maybe not, but if you're on a slim budget, the ones I've gotten from The Tie Bar have been worth double or triple their $15.00 price point. 

Or you can get all the ties you need for that price or less from the Exchange. CMDC sells tie grab bags for, IIRC, $7 each, and I've seen his stock. They're all nice, tasteful ties.


----------



## ran23

Thanks, good to know.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

*AE's Kenilworth*

I know that the question, "What do I wear with derby shoes?" has been asked and answered. My question is more complicated, but I'd just as soon you shot from the hip. I'm looking for one versatile pair of dark brown shoes, which I'd like to dress down as far as corduroys, and up as far as woolen odd trousers. What's my best choice? I work in a very casual workplace. I already have black and merlot PAs for wearing with a suit.

I'm necessarily indifferent as to bluchers vs. bals, given that 1, until my taste becomes infallible, I should not buy two pairs of shoes at once; 2, Roycru is often sporting AE walnut balmorals with chinos or other light-colored trousers (please correct me if I'm wrong).

1. AE's Kenilworth, which can be gotten pretty cheaply at the ShoeBank;
2. a chunkier PTB;
3. a chunky brogue;
4. a lighter-weight brogue (e.g. the McGregor, IIRC).

The Kenilworth is the cheapest option, but I've learned that the best way to economize is to buy only things I'm sure to wear.


----------



## bigwordprof

What's a good needlepoint belt design idea? I have a personal "life treasures" one, and I want to avoid nautical designs and anything controversial (beer cans, for example). I have looked at about 2,000 belts and canvases on different sites without anything striking my fancy. Is there a versatile stock needlepoint I've missed or a clever idea any of you have for a custom one? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Reuben

bigwordprof said:


> What's a good needlepoint belt design idea? I have a personal "life treasures" one, and I want to avoid nautical designs and anything controversial (beer cans, for example). I have looked at about 2,000 belts and canvases on different sites without anything striking my fancy. Is there a versatile stock needlepoint I've missed or a clever idea any of you have for a custom one? Thanks in advance.


Probably some kind of simple stripe or geometric pattern, or something with animals. Below is my current collection of needlepoints and while at least half aren't quite what you asked for, the second, third, and fourth from the top are all solid choices. The second-top one is great with springy/summery casual attire, say rumpled chinos, a uni-striped OCBD, and a pastel shetland, the third goes great with blue jeans and the earth tones of fall, while the fourth is killer with neatly pressed khakis, a white pinpoint, and a navy blazer. The very bottom one's a little different but it pairs fantastically with light-grey flannels, creme bucks, and a light pink or creme sweater:


----------



## SlideGuitarist

bigwordprof said:


> What's a good needlepoint belt design idea? I have a personal "life treasures" one, and I want to avoid nautical designs and anything controversial (beer cans, for example). I have looked at about 2,000 belts and canvases on different sites without anything striking my fancy. Is there a versatile stock needlepoint I've missed or a clever idea any of you have for a custom one? Thanks in advance.


How about arabesques? Cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabesque_(Islamic_art). Not arabesques based on calligraphy, but the sort of pattern that "tiles" readily.


----------



## bigwordprof

Thanks to both for your recommendations. Reuben, your insight is great. I like the idea of a neat stripe or geo pattern for spring and summer. 

SG, what colors do you think would work well for an arabesque background and design?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

bigwordprof said:


> Thanks to both for your recommendations. Reuben, your insight is great. I like the idea of a neat stripe or geo pattern for spring and summer.
> 
> SG, what colors do you think would work well for an arabesque background and design?


I honestly don't know. Something tells me that black Kufic script is not what's called for here. This is custom work, right? And this needlepoint would be fairly coarse-grained, so I can't propose anything that's excessively filigrane. How about the sort of border pattern you see on Persian rugs, or on panel borders, or doorframes. Here's an image of the fort in Agra: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...20px-RedFortAgra-Musamman-Burj-20080211-2.jpg. Here's one from a Persian rug: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...920px-Mantes_carpet_Louvre_OA6610_detail1.jpg. Check out medieval European miniatures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Très_Riches_Heures_du_Duc_de_Berry

I don't know much about this stuff. You were asking for ideas, so I tried to think of different decorative traditions, so I shot from the hip. The Wikipedia entry on "arabesque" notes that Middle Eastern tableware began to be influenced by Chinese porcelain, so you might think of the twining flowers you'd find on European porcelain. You've got hours of web-surfing ahead of you.

I like Reuben's Argyll & Sutherland stripe; that sounds easier than anything I initially thought of!


----------



## Reuben

bigwordprof said:


> Thanks to both for your recommendations. Reuben, your insight is great. I like the idea of a neat stripe or geo pattern for spring and summer.
> 
> SG, what colors do you think would work well for an arabesque background and design?


Here's a seller you might not have come across before that could simplify things for you. They've got a ton of designs already, including one of UGA's campus that I'm pining for, and everything is made to order. Since they're custom, they're happy to tweak the designs they already have or even make you a completely new design from scratch, see here: https://www.needlepaint.com/needlepoint/custom-belt

If I were you what I'd consider is using a tie for inspiration Something like one of the classic repp stripes or regimentals would look great and be incredibly versatile, as would a tartan, emblematic, or maybe even a foulard.


----------



## bigwordprof

I used needlepaint.com for my custom "life treasures" belt, which I love. I will likely go back to them. Right now I'm leaning toward a repp stripe, but I think a simpler "arabesque" could look really cool. I like these.


----------



## Bama87

I ask here because all the Hickey Freeman suit talk. Are Hickey Freeman shirts legit?


----------



## Bama87

Peak and Pine said:


> I've chosen to respond to you because I own a single (1) Hickey Freeman shirt and since it tends to stay on my back when buttoned I would rate it OK, however I've not registered it with the FBI so I don't know how _legit_ it is. What precisely are you talking about?


Haha solid answer.

Are they of good quality? Do they tend to hold up or are they thought of as a wear a few times then throw away shirt, as in do they fray easil, have quality problems? Do the collars hold shape well?


----------



## MythReindeer

Can corduroy trousers be let out without permanent marks from the original seam?


----------



## Spin Evans

Cotton in general shows visible wear and crease lines. Corduroy has those same problems, and also tends to bald with wear.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Bama87 said:


> I ask here because all the Hickey Freeman suit talk. Are Hickey Freeman shirts legit?


I haven't ever bought one, but I've found them in thrift stores, and they seem to hold up alright. The fabric occasionally feels a little better than some of BB's offerings, but the styling doesn't knock me dead.


----------



## MythReindeer

Spin Evans said:


> Cotton in general shows visible wear and crease lines. Corduroy has those same problems, and also tends to bald with wear.


These are brand new trousers, so wear is not yet a problem. I had a pair of chinos let out when I bought them and the old seam lines are very faint after several washes, but still there. I figured it might be worse with corduroy and I cannot return these pants.


----------



## Reuben

So I've got Hunt Ball, a white-tie optional event, on saturday night. Well, white tie-ish optional, in that the gentlemen's tailcoats will be in the hunt's colors, scarlet with forest-green collars. For some odd reason I haven't bothered investing in a scarlet tailcoat just yet and I usually wear my tux. Problem is the poor jacket can't tolerate any more alterations, 70 lbs down is just too much for it to bear. Since it's too late to buy and tailor, and I'm disinclined to rent, I think I'll go with my entire black tie rig with a burgundy velvet jacket instead. The jacket's significantly cheaper than buying or renting a tux, fits well enough to not need alterations, and should fit in quite well with the general atmosphere. It's got peak lapels, jetted pockets, but sadly has a two button front. I"m considering swapping out the tonal "horn" buttons for smoked MOP, but haven't quite decided. The burgundy velvet jacket seem like a reasonable replacement to y'all? And vest or cummerbund? Either way they're going to be black with a black diamond-point grosgrain bow tie.










Buttons:


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> So I've got Hunt Ball, a white-tie optional event, on saturday night. Well, white tie-ish optional, in that the gentlemen's tailcoats will be in the hunt's colors, scarlet with forest-green collars. For some odd reason I haven't bothered investing in a scarlet tailcoat just yet and I usually wear my tux. Problem is the poor jacket can't tolerate any more alterations, 70 lbs down is just too much for it to bear. Since it's too late to buy and tailor, and I'm disinclined to rent, I think I'll go with my entire black tie rig with a burgundy velvet jacket instead. The jacket's significantly cheaper than buying or renting a tux, fits well enough to not need alterations, and should fit in quite well with the general atmosphere. It's got peak lapels, jetted pockets, but sadly has a two button front. I"m considering swapping out the tonal "horn" buttons for smoked MOP, but haven't quite decided. The burgundy velvet jacket seem like a reasonable replacement to y'all? And vest or cummerbund? Either way they're going to be black with a black diamond-point grosgrain bow tie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buttons:


I like it personally. I wear my navy velvet DJ when I want to change up my black tie rig (especially if it's "black tie optional" or the dreaded "creative black tie")


----------



## gamma68

MythReindeer said:


> Can corduroy trousers be let out without permanent marks from the original seam?


Nope. The original seam marks will always be visible, unfortunately.


----------



## orange fury

Question about leather straps for slide buckles. A couple weeks ago I purchased two vintage NOS Anson buckles (one sterling silver and one brass) that fit a 1" wide strap. I have two Beltmaster straps that work fine with my Tiffany buckle, but are too thick for the Anson buckles. Does anyone know where to find thin leather straps with no padding (essentially just a strip of leather with a buckle attachment)


----------



## ran23

Picked up a Brooks Bros Makers tie, Silk, about 3 1/4" 'Printed in England'. After tying it a few times, I finally measured it against a new retail tie I got, It is about 2' shorter. guess I will have to stick to a 4 in hand. I'm 5-8 1/2


----------



## mhj

Older ties are almost always shorter. I learned to be careful when thrifting because ties can easily be too short for me and I'm not much taller than you.


----------



## ran23

thanks Now I am wondering how old the Printed in England tag makes it.


----------



## Duvel

Always stick to four in hand, regardless of tie length.



ran23 said:


> Picked up a Brooks Bros Makers tie, Silk, about 3 1/4" 'Printed in England'. After tying it a few times, I finally measured it against a new retail tie I got, It is about 2' shorter. guess I will have to stick to a 4 in hand. I'm 5-8 1/2


----------



## FLMike

Duvel said:


> Always stick to four in hand, regardless of tie length.


This. x1000


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Always stick to four in hand, regardless of tie length.





FLCracka said:


> This. x1000


Seconded


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Who makes LL Bean's penny loafers? I bought my son a pair, and they seem much sturdier than the Weejuns he just outgrew.


----------



## ran23

I picked up Rockport wingtips in what I thought was brown. I bought brown polish, but I think this isn't. This has the adiPrene cushion, not sure how old this is. I tried searching with the model number inside, not getting anywhere. they current light up has Tan and Brown. This might have been lighter than brown and the toe was done in brown. Is there another was to search older models??


----------



## mhj

I have always heard they're made by Bass or Sebago.


----------



## ran23

I see the Sebagos are similar style and price on Zappo. comfortable shoe, seeing that the toe is darker, not sure about dying it all the same dark brown. might look better. Consginment store purchase.


----------



## Mianbao

Can I really save money buying high end suits off of Ebay? 

I am in the market for two new suits, my budget is $2,200 total. I see the $1,800 Canali suit I tried on at Nordstrom available for 1/3rd the price as a buy it now on eBay. Same measurements, same everything, with the tags on it. How? 

But then as I search eBay further I see these brands like Oxxford and Brioni online for less than $1,000 and I think "wow, can I really go to such a nice suit in my budget". But what's the reality? Are suits altered after purchase in such a way that they are unwearable for a different body type? 

Am I naive newbie about to be disappointed when the suit arrives or with proper measurements and research can I truly get such great deals on eBay?


----------



## Spin Evans

Mianbao said:


> Can I really save money buying high end suits off of Ebay?


Yes.

There are dozens of members whose impossibly great wardrobes are built from eBay and thrift shops.


----------



## Woofa

I am sure there will be many here with detailed advice and experience but the answer to your question is definitely yes and with effort most likley for well below the numbers you are quoting. Any number of reasons why these show up and most probably won't make much sense. I found a NWT Zegna unstructured jacket the other day at a thrift store for less than $6. Tag lists well over $2000. I can't even imagine how it got there in basically perfect condition but they do. Our own DRL. often finds NWT items at a fraction of the retail cost and resells. Many of these very large EBAY sellers are resellers for thrifters and consignment.

A few important things:

1. Make sure you know your size in the brand and if possible, the suit you are looking at; 
2. Make sure to deal with a seller with 100% or nearly perfect positive feedback who takes returns in case there is an issue even if you have to spend a little more; and
3. Try to work with a seller who has sold many, many suits. These will usually be the best at measurements as well as pictures.

Good Luck,


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Mianbao said:


> Can I really save money buying high end suits off of Ebay?


I have not yet tried to buy a suit on eBay, as I don't often wear suits. However, in the last year I have bought 3 Samuelsohn sport coats (all of which may be NWOT, as far as I can tell) and several tweed jackets, and I'm expecting an Oxxford fresco SC this week. I have to think that other men simply buy these, end up never wearing them, and then get rid of them. Or gain weight. Or die. Most of these cost me ca. $50, and I've never had a bidding war, though you're likely to face on for higher-profile brands such as Brioni. At $50, a bit of wear wouldn't bother me. I would hesitate somewhat to get a darted, fittted jacket that I couldn't try on, but you may have a different appetite for risk. Some obvious advice:

1. Have an alterations tailor whose sartorial advice you would trust. Not someone at the mall. The alterations shop I go to also does bespoke work, and in fact they do work for my tailor, so I've got two sources of sound advice.
2. Know what you want, and know your measurements, and be prepared to send anything back that's Significantly Not As Described.
3. Buy stuff you'll wear. It's all very nice to get a Prince of Wales plaid suit for $150, but if I never wear it? That's a week's worth of groceries.

As an aside, every French cuffed-shirt, even my nicest white twill, I have is from eBay. For most men, that's a specialty item, which is exactly why they end up on eBay with very little wear. It's harder, or so it seems to me, to find the most basic shirts (say, sky blue with barrel cuffs and an English spread collar) there.


----------



## Mianbao

Thank you for the feedback. I am going to follow your advice and I will be looking most likely at brands that I have tried on at a local store. I won't be going too exotic the first time around.


----------



## orange fury

orange fury said:


> Question about leather straps for slide buckles. A couple weeks ago I purchased two vintage NOS Anson buckles (one sterling silver and one brass) that fit a 1" wide strap. I have two Beltmaster straps that work fine with my Tiffany buckle, but are too thick for the Anson buckles. Does anyone know where to find thin leather straps with no padding (essentially just a strip of leather with a buckle attachment)


Bumping this question- I'd really like to be able to wear these buckles, but haven't been able to due to the thickness of my two straps


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> Bumping this question- I'd really like to be able to wear these buckles, but haven't been able to due to the thickness of my two straps


Well, I had a similar issue with a vintage sterling buckle I bought off ebay, but the issue kind of solved itself. At the time I owned two straps...black and brown versions of the BB aligator straps. It just so happened that the naturally occurring imperfections inherent in a gator strap worked in my favor. The brown strap just happened to be thinner through the last six inches or so of the strap, and worked perfectly in that buckle. In fact, it didn't work very well witb my BB or Tiffany buckles....because of the thinness, it would slide out of the buckle even when the buckles were pressed down. And, conversely, the black strap wouldn't fit through the vintage buckle very easily (your problem). Soooo, I ended up permanently pairing the vintage buckle with the brown gator strap.

Now I know that's a nice story and all, but it doesn't really help you out....which is the reason I didn't bother repling to your original query. Have you looked at tbe BB calf straps? They might be worth a try.

By the way, the BB gator straps were a lot less expensive back when I pirchased mine! I can't believe what they want for those things these days!!


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Mianbao said:


> Can I really save money buying high end suits off of Ebay?
> 
> I am in the market for two new suits, my budget is $2,200 total. I see the $1,800 Canali suit I tried on at Nordstrom available for 1/3rd the price as a buy it now on eBay. Same measurements, same everything, with the tags on it. How?
> 
> But then as I search eBay further I see these brands like Oxxford and Brioni online for less than $1,000 and I think "wow, can I really go to such a nice suit in my budget". But what's the reality? Are suits altered after purchase in such a way that they are unwearable for a different body type?
> 
> Am I naive newbie about to be disappointed when the suit arrives or with proper measurements and research can I truly get such great deals on eBay?


Of course you can. ESPECIALLY if you buy something new with tags. I now have two OXXFORD suits that I paid a total of $195 for on ebay. They would have cost thousands of dollars.


----------



## jimw

HMT Watches - any experience?

My crummy Timex Weekender has given me its last frustration, and my Seamaster yet again needs to go to the watchmaker for service. I've been eyeing Indian HMT watches for a long time now, and oddly they are not common in N. America (odd because they have literally manufactured half a billion watches over the years).

Does anyone have an HMT Janata or Pilot? I'm intrigued that they still turn out trad-ish mechanical hand-winds, unchanged from the '60s, and you can have these for under $100 if you can find a distributor (here is one site I found https://www.hmtwatchesonline.com/product/buy-hmt-janata-applied-indices). Thanks for any feedback - I've recently ordered some new nato straps, and need a new watch on which to model them!


----------



## Mianbao

A follow up question: I measure a 46r with a 33 waist and 30 length on the pants according to the Nordstrom rep when I was trying on a Canali. How much do those measurements that carry over to other brands like Oxxford/Kiton/Brioni? 

In other words is it like in mens shoes where you need to know your size relative to the brand or is a 46r a 46r across the board? 

I hate being such a newbie and appreciate the insight you are all bringing me.


----------



## sskim3

Mianbao said:


> A follow up question:* I measure a 46r with a 33 waist and 30 length on the pants *according to the Nordstrom rep when I was trying on a Canali. How much do those measurements that carry over to other brands like Oxxford/Kiton/Brioni?
> 
> In other words is it like in mens shoes where you need to know your size relative to the brand or is a 46r a 46r across the board?
> 
> I hate being such a newbie and appreciate the insight you are all bringing me.


You have a 13 inch drop in chest and waist?! Every brand measures slightly differently. Unfortunately, the best way to see if a certain brand fits you is to try it on. With a 13 inch drop, I would suggest that you look into MTM suits to get fitted properly.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Quick question: where does one get replacement leather buttons, as for a tweed jacket?


----------



## hardline_42

SlideGuitarist said:


> Quick question: where does one get replacement leather buttons, as for a tweed jacket?


Amazon?
https://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-LEATHER-BUTTONS-Antiqued-Natural/dp/B0075PXUDM


----------



## SlideGuitarist

hardline_42 said:


> Amazon?
> https://www.amazon.com/GENUINE-LEATHER-BUTTONS-Antiqued-Natural/dp/B0075PXUDM


D'oh!


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Orphaned jacket, or legit odd jacket? The pattern seems a little too understated for an odd jacket. The brand is Oxxford.


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> Bumping this question- I'd really like to be able to wear these buckles, but haven't been able to due to the thickness of my two straps


OF, years ago, my girlfriend bought a vintage 1920s buckle for me that I had the same problem as you are having. I had to have a strap made for it. Because it was a special gift and I wanted her to know how much I appreciated it, I went to Paul Stuart and had them custom make an alligator strap for me (very expensive, very nice, something I hadn't done before and won't do again, but am glad I did once).

That said, at the time, I asked the shoe repair guy I use (he's highly rated in NYC) and he said he could make one and, while I don't remember the quote, it wasn't a crazy expensive number. So if you have a good cobbler, see if he'd be interested in making a strap to fit.


----------



## orange fury

SlideGuitarist said:


> Orphaned jacket, or legit odd jacket? The pattern seems a little too understated for an odd jacket. The brand is Oxxford.


Looks like an orphan to me. What are the buttons like?



Fading Fast said:


> OF, years ago, my girlfriend bought a vintage 1920s buckle for me that I had the same problem as you are having. I had to have a strap made for it. Because it was a special gift and I wanted her to know how much I appreciated it, I went to Paul Stuart and had them custom make an alligator strap for me (very expensive, very nice, something I hadn't done before and won't do again, but am glad I did once).
> 
> That said, at the time, I asked the shoe repair guy I use (he's highly rated in NYC) and he said he could make one and, while I don't remember the quote, it wasn't a crazy expensive number. So if you have a good cobbler, see if he'd be interested in making a strap to fit.


Huh, that's not a bad idea. I've been meaning to find one in my area anyways, this might make an interesting litmus test.

Now that you mention this, and I hadnt thought of this before, but my wife and I are going to the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo next weekend, and the associated Expo usually has a ton of belt and boot (and leather goods in general) makers on site - not of the belt makers there may have something on hand too...


----------



## Reuben

SlideGuitarist said:


> D'oh!


Also donor jackets from the thrift store.


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Mianbao said:


> A follow up question: I measure a 46r with a 33 waist and 30 length on the pants according to the Nordstrom rep when I was trying on a Canali. How much do those measurements that carry over to other brands like Oxxford/Kiton/Brioni?
> 
> In other words is it like in mens shoes where you need to know your size relative to the brand or is a 46r a 46r across the board?
> 
> I hate being such a newbie and appreciate the insight you are all bringing me.


if you have a 13 inch drop, you'll need to do made to measure OR buy suit separates. I have a 10 inch drop in some brands and that is hard to get that to work. So, a 13 inch drop is going to be even more difficult!


----------



## SlideGuitarist

orange fury said:


> Looks like an orphan to me. What are the buttons like?


Dark gray or brown. The item is listed here----but even if it's a sport coat, it's a little too board-room for my office, I think.


----------



## ran23

I have lost a fair amount of weight, down to a 38-R, however still carry a 34" waist. Most jackets I need to shorten the sleeves. I tried on a tweed jacket in 40-S and the length was good. So that would be opening the lining and tailor. and I still keep the 34 waist. Just curious if I find a 36/37, is it easier to open up the back to 38?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

ran23 said:


> I have lost a fair amount of weight, down to a 38-R, however still carry a 34" waist. Most jackets I need to shorten the sleeves. I tried on a tweed jacket in 40-S and the length was good. So that would be opening the lining and tailor. and I still keep the 34 waist. Just curious if I find a 36/37, is it easier to open up the back to 38?


It's almost always easier to take in a garment than it is to let one out. That's a generalization.


----------



## ran23

thanks, keeping my 34" is the thing.


----------



## Duvel

Any opinions on the yellow oxford button-down? I'm thinking of adding one from Brooks during the corp sale. My preference would be a yellow university stripe, but I don't see this option. Yes, no, maybe?


----------



## hardline_42

Duvel said:


> Any opinions on the yellow oxford button-down? I'm thinking of adding one from Brooks during the corp sale. My preference would be a yellow university stripe, but I don't see this option. Yes, no, maybe?


Yes, if it works with your coloring. The yellow OCBD a classic prep school uniform staple.


----------



## Duvel

Thanks. I had no idea it was a classic prep school uniform staple.

I'm never sure about the skin coloring coordination. I don't have a good sense for how I look in different colors, and never have. Kind of a blind spot there. However, I know that in white shirts my skin looks quite tan, even though I don't get a lot of sun exposure these days.



hardline_42 said:


> Yes, if it works with your coloring. The yellow OCBD a classic prep school uniform staple.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Thanks. I had no idea it was a classic prep school uniform staple.
> 
> I'm never sure about the skin coloring coordination. I don't have a good sense for how I look in different colors, and never have. Kind of a blind spot there. However, I know that in white shirts my skin looks quite tan, even though I don't get a lot of sun exposure these days.


Check with your wife or someone who does see how different colors work for you. Yellow is, IMHO, an extreme binary outcome - it either works really well or it looks bad. Yellow washes me out completely; where as, for some others it looks fantastic.

I don't know about prep school uniforms, but yellow OCBDs were the color and shirt the boys and girls had to wear at the Catholic school that my school shared a bus with. The boys had ugly brown pants and black or brown dress shoes and the girls had plaid skirts, knee length socks and, I think, also black or brown nondescript dress shoes.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

mytailor.com has some pale yellow patterns (search "wheat"), but maybe those are supposed to be for harvest season? I used to have a banana yellow Bengal stripe poplin BD from RLP that looked good on me when I was tanned, but _only_ then. I like your pale yellow sweater today; it frames the blue and green of the shirt and tie very nicely. I think I've seen FlairBall and Billax both sporting yellow V-neck sweaters, and those looked _very_ nice. A pale yellow looked nice on an almost pink-skinned Cate Blanchett at the Oscars 10 years ago, and bright yellow looks great against very dark skin (Fatoumata Diawara, Malian singer), but it's one of those colors we're warned about (like light gray shirts...terrible on me).


----------



## Duvel

Interesting. Well, as a matter of fact, I'm wearing a bright yellow v-neck vest today, and I like it. It also occurs to me that that I have a deeper yellow shetland that I like to wear a lot. So I guess yellow must work.



SlideGuitarist said:


> mytailor.com has some pale yellow patterns (search "wheat"), but maybe those are supposed to be for harvest season? I used to have a banana yellow Bengal stripe poplin BD from RLP that looked good on me when I was tanned, but _only_ then. I like your pale yellow sweater today; it frames the blue and green of the shirt and tie very nicely. I think I've seen FlairBall and Billax both sporting yellow V-neck sweaters, and those looked _very_ nice. A pale yellow looked nice on an almost pink-skinned Cate Blanchett at the Oscars 10 years ago, and bright yellow looks great against very dark skin (Fatoumata Diawara, Malian singer), but it's one of those colors we're warned about (like light gray shirts...terrible on me).


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> Interesting. Well, as a matter of fact, I'm wearing a bright yellow v-neck vest today, and I like it. It also occurs to me that that I have a deeper yellow shetland that I like to wear a lot. So I guess yellow must work.


Right, I like yellow the way you're wearing it today.


----------



## Duvel

Another whole other question but related to the OCBD purchases coming up: Is it time to switch to some pinpoints (instead of oxfords)? With the warm months, etc.?

EDIT: Well, no, on second thought, I'll stick with the oxford. I seem to recall that I'm actually cooler in oxford than pinpoint in the warm months. Must have something to do with the weave.


----------



## ran23

I'm looking at a Brooks Bro Madison fit 40-S Dark Gray suit with 34W. I wear a 38-R or a 40-S and take in the chest, length is good on the few jackets I have tried. Not an older model, the lapels are fine. is this 1818 a decent suit to begin with?


----------



## ran23

On ebay, I am seeing a Harrington 1970's Bomber jacket for $23.00 Navy with red tartan lining. Thinking this is more fashion and not a suitable casual vintage jacket. ??


----------



## Reuben

ran23 said:


> On ebay, I am seeing a Harrington 1970's Bomber jacket for $23.00 Navy with red tartan lining. Thinking this is more fashion and not a suitable casual vintage jacket. ??


I mean, I'm wearing a khaki harrington of about the same vintage right now and I had a navy wool one I wore quite a bit before I lost a lot of weight.


----------



## ran23

I thought the price might be a cheap copy. Looks good in pics. Only navy is left, fine with me.


----------



## LonelyAreTheBrave

Who currently manufactures the made in USA cotton khaki twill trouser for J Press?


----------



## ran23

ran23 said:


> I thought the price might be a cheap copy. Looks good in pics. Only navy is left, fine with me.


Ordered it, we'll see.


----------



## irsky

Hey! Was wondering if anyone had some advice on trad beachwear and accessories (hopefully somewhat economical). Thanks!


----------



## ran23

I got a London Fog raincoat months ago in 38-R. raincoat with zip out liner. I thought raincoats are like overcoats, buy in 'your size'. Pouring rain yesterday after the theatre, it felt tight over a shiirt and medium jacket. LIke a 40 would have been a better fit. Guess I need to shop with a sport coat on from now on. ??


----------



## L-feld

LonelyAreTheBrave said:


> Who currently manufactures the made in USA cotton khaki twill trouser for J Press?


Chardan aka All American Khakis.


----------



## L-feld

irsky said:


> Hey! Was wondering if anyone had some advice on trad beachwear and accessories (hopefully somewhat economical). Thanks!


Monogrammed swim trunks for $10 a pop from SSEW:

Surcingle flip flops from Leatherman: https://www.elizab.com/product/LM-Msan-Surc.html

Reyn Spooner Shirt: https://www.reynspooner.com/category/classic-collection/

Panama Hat from Orvis (not made in Ecuador like a real one, sorry):

edit: Madras is okay for the beach too, but it won't dry quickly like Spooner Kloth -


----------



## SlideGuitarist

What's the (presumably loose) consensus on the best almost-everyday shoe to wear with chinos and such? As my feet have aged along with the rest of me, I've found beefroll pennies increasingly problematic. I now need to replace a pair. So:

* walnut Leeds or something similar (can dress down nicely to go with jeans);
* walnut LWB (I believe that RoyCru often poses with AE Jeffersons [balmoral!] and chinos);
* oxblood something?

It's a simple question: I'm going to buy one and only one pair of shoes right now; what would be the most useful?


----------



## Duvel

Always best to avoid seeking a consensus, Slide, in this kind of thing, in my opinion, because such is the path to mediocrity. Opinions and individual preferences, however! My own: LL Bean blucher mocs and Clarks Originals desert boots. Both are very comfortable, and they look fine when you're wearing a coat and tie with those chinos.

I think a good loafer, e.g., Bass Weejun, etc., is another nice option, although I have none at present. 

Depending on the weather and the color of the chino, I also wear dirty bucks.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

^ The problem here is that I love pennies; I just can't wear them all day (I stand at work). I may just get some inexpensive Weejuns for fun, and next get whatever pleases me. Clark's...also don't fit me, so I can't swap them in (though I've also loved them since high school, when, for some reason, they were popular with boys).


----------



## Duvel

I should add, in the warm months, I wear Sperry Topsider boat shoes and Sperry CVO sneakers with chinos, as well. Not with coat and tie, of course, but with sport shirts, polos, etc.


----------



## Fading Fast

Slide, two thoughts. First, have you tried arch support inserts (as I got older, I, too, started to have problems and found that a $15 Dr. Scholls arch support solved it)? Second, if that's not a solution, I find that bucks or desert boots are very comfortable and go great with chinos (a nice pair of bucks can work with a tie or without) - I wear chinos and bucks or deserts boots all the time. That said, I need the inserts in those shoes as well - but with them, I'm fine.


----------



## Duvel

That's a good point, Fading. I wear insoles from time to time in my desert boots, mostly for a little extra cushion and comfort. And yes, I also wear my deserts when I'm wearing a tie and jacket.


----------



## mhj

+1 to the arch support suggestion. Last I bought a pair of AE Scottsdale's from the Shoebank. They are built to accommodate orthotics and are extremely comfortable. They've been discontinued but you might be able to find them somewhere on the Internet.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

mhj said:


> +1 to the arch support suggestion. Last I bought a pair of AE Scottsdale's from the Shoebank. They are built to accommodate orthotics and are extremely comfortable. They've been discontinued but you might be able to find them somewhere on the Internet.


I am wearing arch supports inside my Black Hills right now, to good effect. 6 mos. ago I would never have said this, but I'm considering bucks, both for myself and my son, who also supinates very noticeably. 4 holes are better than 2 in this case.

I'll miss the boyish look of penny loafers, but such is life.

I already posed the "supination" problem elsewhere, so I'll let it go for now.


----------



## Oldsport

SlideGuitarist - This is probably a dumb question, but, have you asked this question to a Physician or Podiatrist?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Triathlete said:


> SlideGuitarist - This is probably a dumb question, but, have you asked this question to a Physician or Podiatrist?


Yes, I have. I strap my feet with athletic tape when cycling, and had some rather bulky custom orthotics made for me a few years ago. The podiatrist's recommendation back then was to get rubber-soled shoes from Clark's, which is _not_ what I want. So when I go back to him, I'd like to provide some parameters to him in terms of available shoe models that I'd be interested in, and some reasonable constraint on the size of the orthotics. I can't fight time, but I don't want to wear grandpa shoes, either,.


----------



## Oldsport

Roger that! I use some fairly price inserts in my cycling shoes. In my running shoes I don't, as long as I stick with Asics. Good luck with this, you, I believe, are in this minority with the supination issues. I believe the majority of people suffer from excessive pronation. However, I must add that I am not medically trained and have not stayed at a Holiday Inn recently 



SlideGuitarist said:


> Yes, I have. I strap my feet with athletic tape when cycling, and had some rather bulky custom orthotics made for me a few years ago. The podiatrist's recommendation back then was to get rubber-soled shoes from Clark's, which is _not_ what I want. So when I go back to him, I'd like to provide some parameters to him in terms of available shoe models that I'd be interested in. I can't fight time, but I don't want to wear grandpa shoes, either,.


----------



## ran23

I have a college graduation to go to in the Bay Area in May. I choose my Navy Blazer and grey flannels. Recently got a Eagle pale Yellow OCBD, looks great but now a tie is questionable. I searched for 'Navy Blazer/Yellow shirt pics' and there not many. Other shirts I have are white and medium/French blue OCBD. The Blue was going with a BB pale yellow pattern Brit. silk tie, not myfavorite look but passible. I could do anything with the white shirt. NO love for yellow and blue?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

ran23 said:


> I have a college graduation to go to in the Bay Area in May. I choose my Navy Blazer and grey flannels. Recently got a Eagle pale Yellow OCBD, looks great but now a tie is questionable. I searched for 'Navy Blazer/Yellow shirt pics' and there not many. Other shirts I have are white and medium/French blue OCBD. The Blue was going with a BB pale yellow pattern Brit. silk tie, not myfavorite look but passible. I could do anything with the white shirt. NO love for yellow and blue?


Not this one? https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB#1...dwvar_A230_Color=BURG&contentpos=11&cgid=0210


----------



## ran23

so that with the yellow shirt? I have a Burgandy/ white dot new tie, may try that. Too bad my navy/red Regemental tie dissappears with the Navy jacket. and my University tie is yellow with blue stripes. Yes, the Burdandy tie looks OK. (it would be JAB instead of the vintage BB, Talbotts). Thank You.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

ran23 said:


> so that with the yellow shirt? I have a Burgandy/ white dot new tie, may try that. Too bad my navy/red Regemental tie dissappears with the Navy jacket. and my University tie is yellow with blue stripes. Yes, the Burdandy tie looks OK. (it would be JAB instead of the vintage BB, Talbotts). Thank You.


There's a thread in the other forum about yellow shirts, and the initial posting shows a pale yellow shirt with a navy suit and a burgundy tie, for what it's worth.


----------



## ran23

I took the Blazer, Shirt and Tie outside, looks good, going with it. Thanks all


----------



## SlideGuitarist

ran23 said:


> I took the Blazer, Shirt and Tie outside, looks good, going with it. Thanks all


Selfie, or it didn't happen! 

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?206813-Wear-a-Yellow-Dress-Shirt!


----------



## Oldsport

Search for a Boarding Stripe tie, the one with Gree/Navy/pale Yellow and a little Burgundy.

Here: https://www.thetiebar.com/product/22749



ran23 said:


> so that with the yellow shirt? I have a Burgandy/ white dot new tie, may try that. Too bad my navy/red Regemental tie dissappears with the Navy jacket. and my University tie is yellow with blue stripes. Yes, the Burdandy tie looks OK. (it would be JAB instead of the vintage BB, Talbotts). Thank You.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

^ I like Triathlete's proposal. The green seems a little cheerier, a little more seasonal.


----------



## jimw

Opinion, please - this looks like a 3/2 sack, as the one photo of the top button buttoned looks a bit wrong. What's the general concensus? Also, at $99, a decent buy?



JW


----------



## Orgetorix

jimw said:


> Opinion, please - this looks like a 3/2 sack, as the one photo of the top button buttoned looks a bit wrong. What's the general concensus? Also, at $99, a decent buy?
> 
> JW


Yes, definitely a sack. Recent, too, so that's not a terrible price.

Looks like that seller only accepts about one in five offers, but when he does accept, the average price reduction is about 25%. You could offer him $75-80 and see what happens.


----------



## PaultheSwede

Is $50 a good deal for this Burberry jacket?


----------



## orange fury

Wanted to get opinions on the sleeve length for this linen shirt. I thought it was within the acceptable range, but wanted other eyes to look at it:




in fairness, I'll probably wear it with the sleeves rolled up, but I at least want the option to wear the sleeves long


----------



## PaultheSwede

Looks good to me


----------



## sskim3

orange fury said:


> Wanted to get opinions on the sleeve length for this linen shirt. I thought it was within the acceptable range, but wanted other eyes to look at it:
> 
> in fairness, I'll probably wear it with the sleeves rolled up, but I at least want the option to wear the sleeves long


It looks fine to me. In the ideal world, maybe 0.25 in" shorter assuming that would give you optimal sleeve showing when wearing with a madras/seersucker/linen sportscoat. I would assume washing would shrink it just enough to be perfect. Shirt definitely needs to be ironed


----------



## orange fury

sskim3 said:


> It looks fine to me. In the ideal world, maybe 0.25 in" shorter assuming that would give you optimal sleeve showing when wearing with a madras/seersucker/linen sportscoat. I would assume washing would shrink it just enough to be perfect. Shirt definitely needs to be ironed


Ive lready washed it and hang dry shirts, but I was more concerned about it being too short rather than too long. Also, it's linen, so wrinkles are good  (in fairness, they've been folded in a box)


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## sskim3

orange fury said:


> Ive lready washed it and hang dry shirts, but I was more concerned about it being too short rather than too long. Also, it's linen, so wrinkles are good  (in fairness, they've been folded in a box)


HA! Then it is all good. You are overthinking it. Enjoy them and stop worrying. A wrinkle free linen shirt is a pipedream. :beer:


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## Fading Fast

OF, it looks good to me, but the real test is how does it look under a sport coat whose sleeves you know are the right length. Does the linen sleeve show throw the right amount?


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## eagle2250

Looks OK, but barely so, in the pics of you standing with your arms hanging at your side, but is it going to prove a workable fit as you go about your day, flexing your arms and reaching for a litany of life's little necessities. At first blush the fit may look ok, but is it a fit you can live with? :icon_scratch:


----------



## L-feld

Anyone want to give me an opinion on the concept of spectator loafers? Goofy? Attractive? Too pimpish? Not pimpish enough?

Rancourt:










Ferragamo:


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## jimw

So long as they'll be comfy - 'cause just remember that Pimpin' Ain't Easy


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## Orgetorix

I like the Rancourt version. The Ferragamo ones leave me cold - which is probably mostly because I hate bit loafers in general, but I do think in this case they make an already attention-getting shoe even more gratuitously over-the-top.


----------



## L-feld

Orgetorix said:


> I do think in this case they make an already attention-getting shoe even more gratuitously over-the-top.


That's enough to scare me off from them. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## RT-Bone

Would the AE Patriot in brown cordovan be comparable in color to Alden LHS in whiskey cordovan?


----------



## Ensiferous

RT-Bone said:


> Would the AE Patriot in brown cordovan be comparable in color to Alden LHS in whiskey cordovan?


The "whiskey" is lighter, and tonally very different.

And besides the color, they are very different fits. The Patriot has the narrow heel/wider forefoot (that works for me) and the LHS has a very roomy heel (that definitely does NOT work for me since it rides like a flip-flop on my foot.)


----------



## Orgetorix

The brown cordovan that AE and Ralph Lauren use is closer to Cigar, though it's slightly lighter. It's in between Cigar and Ravello.


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## RT-Bone

Thanks, guys - great info. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fading Fast

Does this J.Crew Harrington jacket have a good Ivy / Trad vibe or is it a hot mess? I go back and forth every time I look at it. Sometimes I like it / other times I think it looks "fake."



And this is the link if you want to see other angles, etc.

https://www.jcrew.com/mens_category/outerwear/cotton/PRDOVR~C1184/C1184.jsp


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## Duvel

It doesn't strike me as very traditional. It strikes me as fashion and faddish.


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## Duvel

Any idea what this kind of button might be called? Have you seen anything like it? Or is it just a one-off novelty?


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## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> It doesn't strike me as very traditional. It strikes me as fashion and faddish.


One very knowledgable vote against - thank you. I've been on the fence and looking for our community here to knock sense into me one way or the other.


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## Duvel

Hands in the air, step away from the fashion site. This is for your own good.



Fading Fast said:


> One very knowledgable vote against - thank you. I've been on the fence and looking for our community here to knock sense into me one way or the other.


----------



## Duvel

Any thoughts about that button?


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## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Any thoughts about that button?


unfortunately no - there are echoes of mother of pearl, but it is not.


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## Duvel

Thanks. These mysteries sometimes come with these vintage things. The place itself is no longer around, so there's no telling the story. I've noticed that sometimes these old men's stores added unique details to their house items.


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## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> ...I've noticed that sometimes these old men's stores added unique details to their house items.


Very true - and you can see that still is done at places like Ben Silver where they'll special order shoes - some special combination of features - from, say, Alden, so that they have an exclusive on that variation. Also, the "house" brand (made by someone else, of course), usually had, back in the day, and even to day at the few remaining stores, some custom features.


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## Duvel

True. Sometimes it's just a unique, nicely designed label. But it's enough to make the item distinctive. I wish there were more "trad" kinds of men's stores still around.



Fading Fast said:


> Very true - and you can see that still is done at places like Ben Silver where they'll special order shoes - some special combination of features - from, say, Alden, so that they have an exclusive on that variation. Also, the "house" brand (made by someone else, of course), usually had, back in the day, and *even to day at the few remaining stores, some custom features*.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> True. Sometimes it's just a unique, nicely designed label. But it's enough to make the item distinctive. I wish there were more "trad" kinds of men's stores still around.


Growing up in the late '60 / '70s, all of my clothes came from the Army Navy store which stocked things like Chuck Taylors and Wrangler Jeans (and had really cheap prices) or Robert Hall, which was a warehouse type of discounter (racks of clothes in - in my town - an old municipal building of some sort). But a couple of times a year - for my Dad's birthday or Christmas present - my Mom would take me to "Archies," which I think had a longer name, but we knew it as "Archies."

Only in retrospect - with the knowledge I've gained here and from too many books that I've read on Ivy / Trad clothing - have I realize that it was an old college clothing store that was dying. I remember thinking how much nicer the fixtures and displays in the stores were - wood cases and shelves, elegant arrangements, clothes folded neatly - versus the stores I usually went to (piles of clothes in dusty bins in the Army Navy store and metal racks with plastic signs and clothes jammed into them at Robert Hall). Also, the salesmen tried to help you at Archie - "can I show you something else," "what does your Dad normally like" - versus the sometimes good, but hurried help, in the other stores.

And even without knowing much about clothing, as a kid, you knew the clothes were nicer. But thinking back, the store was always quiet, the salesmen made comments about how slow business was or how "fewer people buy ties these days" (we normally got my Dad a tie), etc.

And they carried some house brands (as I remember the label) and made a point about "you can only get this here," referencing a type of over-the-calf sock we'd sometimes buy for my dad. I looked on line (quickly, I'll try harder later), but couldn't find anything about the store - I'm sure it's gone. As you noted, Duvel, it had some distinctive items, its own label and a special vibe. Shame that world is almost all gone.


----------



## Duvel

I will be the first to admit, I can be an odd duck. But am I the only one who doesn't agree? I wish I could wear tweed 12 months of the year. https://www.ivy-style.com/goodbye-and-good-riddance.html


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## YoungSoulRebel

I just saw that as well and I'm with you. I love my tweeds, luckily, I do not have to subscribe to seasonal rules as the seasons pretty much blend together on the San Franciscan coast.



Duvel said:


> I will be the first to admit, I can be an odd duck. But am I the only one who doesn't agree? I wish I could wear tweed 12 months of the year. https://www.ivy-style.com/goodbye-and-good-riddance.html


----------



## LonelyAreTheBrave

What is the preferred method of posting forum photos?


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I will be the first to admit, I can be an odd duck. But am I the only one who doesn't agree? I wish I could wear tweed 12 months of the year. https://www.ivy-style.com/goodbye-and-good-riddance.html


I own a silk sport coat that was advertised as silk tweed and when I ask the salesman he said that "tweed" is a weave and finish - rough hewn and textured - that doesn't have to be made of wool. I don't know if that is right or not, as - prior to that - I always thought of tweed as a wool woven in a certain way. So, now, when the spring / summer comes around, I switch to my "silk tweed" sport coat so that I can continue wearing tweed year round.

The question: can tweed be made from any other fabric but wool, or asked another way, Is tweed a weave / texture that can made from many types of fabrics?


----------



## FLMike

LonelyAreTheBrave said:


> What is the preferred method of posting forum photos?


https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=60615


----------



## triumph

Any recommendation on which are the best tweeds? I was looking at BB and CT ones which are on sale now.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Fading Fast said:


> I own a silk sport coat that was advertised as silk tweed and when I ask the salesman he said that "tweed" is a weave and finish - rough hewn and textured - that doesn't have to be made of wool. I don't know if that is right or not, as - prior to that - I always thought of tweed as a wool woven in a certain way. So, now, when the spring / summer comes around, I switch to my "silk tweed" sport coat so that I can continue wearing tweed year round.
> 
> The question: can tweed be made from any other fabric but wool, or asked another way, Is tweed a weave / texture that can made from many types of fabrics?


I love tweed, and rough textures generally. According to the Wikipedia entry, the word "tweed" comes from "twill," and does indeed refer to woolens: "The original name of the cloth was tweel, Scots for twill, it being woven in a twilled rather than a plain pattern. A traditional story has the name coming about almost by chance. About 1830, a London merchant received a letter from a Hawick firm, Wm. Watson & Sons, Dangerfield Mills about some tweels. The London merchant misinterpreted the handwriting, understanding it to be a trade-name taken from the river Tweed that flows through the Scottish Borders textile area." I have two "silk tweed" jackets, which are made of a rough-spun raw silk, but don't seem like twill. Again according to Wikipedia (fwiw), it's the flecks of color that suggested the name "tweed."


----------



## SlideGuitarist

This may not be a very tradly question, but I don't know where else to post it. It's another "sport coat or orphan" question. There's a 44L Oxxford fresco jacket listed on eBay, with what look like bronze metal buttons (which I believe suggests odd jacket); it's a solid gray, which suggests an orphaned jacket. I don't want to reproduce the image here; if anyone wears 44L (I usually do), check it out: 

Assuming it is a sport coat, where does a solid medium gray jacket rate on the usefulness scale?


----------



## Duvel

Slide, it is ruined for me by that ink stain. Aside from that, it looks a little too plain, to me. Even if it is a sport coat, it looks quite plain--greys are okay in jackets, but I like something else in them that pops a little, even if it's just a broken bone pattern. I'd pass, if I were you.



SlideGuitarist said:


> This may not be a very tradly question, but I don't know where else to post it. It's another "sport coat or orphan" question. There's a 44L Oxxford fresco jacket listed on eBay, with what look like bronze metal buttons (which I believe suggests odd jacket); it's a solid gray, which suggests an orphaned jacket. I don't want to reproduce the image here; if anyone wears 44L (I usually do), check it out:
> 
> Assuming it is a sport coat, where does a solid medium gray jacket rate on the usefulness scale?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> Slide, it is ruined for me by that ink stain. Aside from that, it looks a little too plain, to me. Even if it is a sport coat, it looks quite plain--greys are okay in jackets, but I like something else in them that pops a little, even if it's just a broken bone pattern. I'd pass, if I were you.


Yeah. Too boring.


----------



## Fading Fast

SlideGuitarist said:


> I love tweed, and rough textures generally. According to the Wikipedia entry, the word "tweed" comes from "twill," and does indeed refer to woolens: "The original name of the cloth was tweel, Scots for twill, it being woven in a twilled rather than a plain pattern. A traditional story has the name coming about almost by chance. About 1830, a London merchant received a letter from a Hawick firm, Wm. Watson & Sons, Dangerfield Mills about some tweels. The London merchant misinterpreted the handwriting, understanding it to be a trade-name taken from the river Tweed that flows through the Scottish Borders textile area." I have two "silk tweed" jackets, which are made of a rough-spun raw silk, but don't seem like twill. Again according to Wikipedia (fwiw), it's the flecks of color that suggested the name "tweed."


Thank you. So, Tweed really does have to be wool. The silk "Tweed" I own is not Tweed, but is silk woven in a Tweed-like way.

As to the flecks of color, I have several herringbone Tweed jackets that are black and grey with no flecks - so, my guess is that over time, the definition evolved.

I love the "twill - tweel - Tweed River - tweed" happenstance - things like that occur in history all the time.


----------



## Woofa

_Originally Posted by Duvel_
"I will be the first to admit, I can be an odd duck."

_Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel_
"I just saw that as well and I'm with you."

I also agree, Duvel is an odd duck!:beer:


----------



## ChrisRS

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you. So, Tweed really does have to be wool. The silk "Tweed" I own is not Tweed, but is silk woven in a Tweed-like way.
> 
> As to the flecks of color, I have several herringbone Tweed jackets that are black and grey with no flecks - so, my guess is that over time, the definition evolved.
> 
> I love the "twill - tweel - Tweed River - tweed" happenstance - things like that occur in history all the time.


Maybe you had this in mind, something I have considered strongly. but have yet to pull the trigger:
https://www.orvis.com/p/silk-tweed-sport-coat/52e0


----------



## Duvel

That looks quite similar to my old three-two roll Orvis jacket. Funny, I don't think of it as tweed. I think of it as "weave" fabric. Is "tweed" something that is just used loosely to describe a woven texture?










ChrisRS said:


> Maybe you had this in mind, something I have considered strongly. but have yet to pull the trigger:
> https://www.orvis.com/p/silk-tweed-sport-coat/52e0


----------



## Fading Fast

ChrisRS said:


> Maybe you had this in mind, something I have considered strongly. but have yet to pull the trigger:
> https://www.orvis.com/p/silk-tweed-sport-coat/52e0


I hadn't look at that one, but it looks nice.

For the last twenty-plus years, I have owned some version of a silk or silk-linen "Tweed" sport coat. They have all been black and tan or grey and cream herringbones, slubby, tweedy but with no other colors in them (like a lot of tweeds do).

My first one was a JAB one, but I have owned several with the most recent one being several years old from J.Crew and a silk-linen blend. They are my favorite Spring-to-early-Fall sport coat as they are incredibly versatile, don't wrinkle as much as a lot of summer sport coats and don't show every little mark (which is also a great feature of real tweed).


----------



## ChrisRS

Duvel and FF, you are making it hard not to buy the Orvis jacket.
I was considering the sage for a May graduation ceremony, but Duvel, that tan / cream version you have on may convince me otherwise.


----------



## Duvel

Chris, either color is nice. To my eye, though, the tan/cream looks better for summer.



ChrisRS said:


> Duvel and FF, you are making it hard not to buy the Orvis jacket.
> I was considering the sage for a May graduation ceremony, but Duvel, that tan / cream version you have on may convince me otherwise.


----------



## bignilk

Just in time for spring, I have a few duffle coat questions. Besides, the off season is the time to find a deal, right?

1. What brands of duffle coat are trad endorsed?

2. I've heard of Schott, but don't have any experience with any of their merchandise. Is this a quality duffle coat? 
https://www.schottnyc.com/products/mens-wool-duffle-coat.htm

3. Does a traditional duffle coat have both a zipper and toggle closure?

I found the Schott on ebay for $100 plus shipping. Seems like a good price.
https://m.ebay.com/itm/121580645629?nav=SEARCH&varId=420533267169


----------



## oxford cloth button down

1. The trad duffle brand is Gloverall. Maybe Stearlingwear, too. Bean did one with Sterlingwear about 2 years ago, but they don't have any on their site now. Mine is a cheapo from LE, but it works for now. People seem to find older Gloveralls on EBay fairly frequently. Here is a link to the Gloverall classic page: https://www.gloverall.com/gloverall-classics.html

2. Same as you. No first hand experience.

3. A traditional duffle only has toggles, but zippers add warmth. Even though it is not the tradest choice I would like to have both.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

To to add to what OCBD said: I found my Gloverall (vintage made in England) on eBay, almost brand new for about $45... I purchased it in the middle of summer so you definitely have the right idea by looking now haha. 
I owned a schott pea coat about a 20 years ago. It was very heavy, and built like a brick wall, kept me very warm during a particularly frigid Boston winter. I have no idea of their current quality, but the vintage ones are great. 
I had a duffel by C.P. Company about 10 years ago and it had a zipper and toggles. It did not seem very "trad" to me, but it kept the wind out much better.

Hope this was helpful



bignilk said:


> Just in time for spring, I have a few duffle coat questions. Besides, the off season is the time to find a deal, right?
> 
> 1. What brands of duffle coat are trad endorsed?
> 
> 2. I've heard of Schott, but don't have any experience with any of their merchandise. Is this a quality duffle coat?
> https://www.schottnyc.com/products/mens-wool-duffle-coat.htm
> 
> 3. Does a traditional duffle coat have both a zipper and toggle closure?
> 
> I found the Schott on ebay for $100 plus shipping. Seems like a good price.
> https://m.ebay.com/itm/121580645629?nav=SEARCH&varId=420533267169


----------



## Reuben

Addendum: I'm never really going to need a duffel coat, am I? Assuming the worst weather I face means a Barbour, a shetland, and some flannel-lined chinos and it's often an either/or situation with the jacket and the sweater. I like the look, don't get me wrong, it just seems like overkill for the weather I get.


----------



## bignilk

Reuben said:


> Addendum: I'm never really going to need a duffel coat, am I? Assuming the worst weather I face means a Barbour, a shetland, and some flannel-lined chinos and it's often an either/or situation with the jacket and the sweater. I like the look, don't get me wrong, it just seems like overkill for the weather I get.


Considering we are practically neighbors, I suppose I should just keep my money, or buy more madras.

Reuben = the voice of reason


----------



## Reuben

bignilk said:


> Reuben = the voice of reason


Welp, that's a new one.


----------



## RT-Bone

I know suits and loafers don't mix. However, what if the suit is a casual suit, such as a chino suit - would something like AE Patriots or Randolphs be appropriate in that case?


----------



## Duvel

RT, I can't say that I'm all that familiar with suit rules, but to my eye, it would not look right. My intuitive sense is that the matching components of any suit, causal or not, almost demand that the footwear fall on the formal side. That's just me, though. Not to say it could not work, I guess.



RT-Bone said:


> I know suits and loafers don't mix. However, what if the suit is a casual suit, such as a chino suit - would something like AE Patriots or Randolphs be appropriate in that case?


----------



## Reuben

RT-Bone said:


> I know suits and loafers don't mix. However, what if the suit is a casual suit, such as a chino suit - would something like AE Patriots or Randolphs be appropriate in that case?


Absolutely. And loafers and suits absolutely mix, tassels and suits are a trad classic and a dressy full-strap penny is entirely appropriate for even a more formal suit.


----------



## Duvel

Well, there you go. I guess I learned something, too! Now, if only I had a suit... .



Reuben said:


> Absolutely. And loafers and suits absolutely mix, tassels and suits are a trad classic and a dressy full-strap penny is entirely appropriate for even a more formal suit.


----------



## RT-Bone

Reuben said:


> Absolutely. And loafers and suits absolutely mix, tassels and suits are a trad classic and a dressy full-strap penny is entirely appropriate for even a more formal suit.


Yeah, I'm feeling that.

Would the Patriot also work okay with jeans on occasion? I'm having a hard time determining how "dressy" that model is...


----------



## FLMike

Reuben said:


> Absolutely. And loafers and suits absolutely mix, tassels and suits are a trad classic and a dressy full-strap penny is entirely appropriate for even a more formal suit.


Amen brother! I've been wearing tassel and full-strap Alden/BB loafers with my suits since I entered the workforce in the mid-90's. (Damn, I'm getting old!)


----------



## Orgetorix

Reuben said:


> Absolutely. And loafers and suits absolutely mix, tassels and suits are a trad classic and a dressy full-strap penny is entirely appropriate for even a more formal suit.





FLCracka said:


> Amen brother! I've been wearing tassel and full-strap Alden/BB loafers with my suits since I entered the workforce in the mid-90's. (Damn, I'm getting old!)


It's worth noting that, while this practice does have good Trad pedigree, it's nonetheless a minority opinion as far as the traditional "rules" go. Most folks would traditionally have seen loafers as too casual for a suit - only laced shoes, and preferably balmorals, with suits.

This is just an area where Trad is unique. Trad often treats things that are inherently less formal - loafers, button-down collars, etc., as acceptable in more formal situations. It's not _wrong_, per se, but it's not the conventional wisdom.


----------



## Duvel

Question, prompted by another member's search for a double-breasted blazer: He mentions preferring a shorter length as he wants a casual jacket. Is there a convention or belief that describes casual as a shorter jacket? To me, length is length, that is, it fits or it doesn't, and so one gets the length that fits one's measurements. But am I missing some idea that a shorter jacket translates to casual?

Also, can a double-breasted jacket really be casual? Or is it going to look formal regardless?

Thanks.


----------



## ran23

When did Patrick James bring out suits? I only see sport coats on their site? this Glen Plaid 2 piece suit is a fantastic fit.


----------



## Orgetorix

Duvel said:


> Question, prompted by another member's search for a double-breasted blazer: He mentions preferring a shorter length as he wants a casual jacket. Is there a convention or belief that describes casual as a shorter jacket? To me, length is length, that is, it fits or it doesn't, and so one gets the length that fits one's measurements. But am I missing some idea that a shorter jacket translates to casual?
> 
> Also, can a double-breasted jacket really be casual? Or is it going to look formal regardless?
> 
> Thanks.


I'd say it goes the other way: the more casual the jacket, the more room there is for a slightly less precise fit. Sleeves don't have to show cuff, you can get away with a little more fullness in the waist, and I suppose that might extend to a slightly shorter overall length.

But no, there's nothing about a shorter length that specifically makes it casual.


----------



## Duvel

That's more or less my thinking, too. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks.



Orgetorix said:


> I'd say it goes the other way: the more casual the jacket, the more room there is for a slightly less precise fit. Sleeves don't have to show cuff, you can get away with a little more fullness in the waist, and I suppose that might extend to a slightly shorter overall length.
> 
> But no, there's nothing about a shorter length that specifically makes it casual.


----------



## mojper

What do you think about national (traditional) clothes (for example Bosnian)?


----------



## Duvel

They're not exactly Ivy League style, are they.  Perhaps a bit preppy, though.


----------



## mojper

Duvel said:


> They're not exactly Ivy League style, are they.  Perhaps a bit preppy, though.


Agree. Like the preppy word :biggrin::biggrin:


----------



## alkydrinker

Duvel said:


> ...He mentions preferring a shorter length as he wants a casual jacket. Is there a convention or belief that describes casual as a shorter jacket?


Not a historical convention, but I see this sentiment expressed a lot in the modern menswear community.

I guess I sortof agree with it, as I have somewhat reluctantly purchased a few shorter casual sport coats when everything else was right about them (and they weren't overly short). However, I wouldn't even consider ever buying a suit with a jacket of this same length.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I get the "shorter jacket reads more casual" thing, but it's not enough to mitigate the detailing of the jacket. Shorter jackets read more hip and modern, and make it look like you have agency in what you wear and are choosing to be fashionable, rather than wearing tailored clothing because you must.

Of course, they often look terrible, so that's an issue.

RT-Bone, I'm not a huge fan of the Patriot style loafers -- I like my welted pennies to be a touch sleeker. I don't think I'd wear them with a suit (a full-strap penny would be better there). Jeans would be alright.


----------



## Duvel

Somewhat related to the above, is a blazer generally cut, and meant to be worn, just a tad shorter than a sport coat, e.g., a tweed jacket? 

I have navy blazers and sport coats by the same makers, in the same size, and the blazer will be just a bit shorter. Is this the intention?


----------



## SuperTrad

What is Shell Cordovan? From my understanding Cordovan is some sort of leather material. But what is shell?


----------



## nbj08

SuperTrad said:


> What is Shell Cordovan? From my understanding Cordovan is some sort of leather material. But what is shell?


After consulting the search feature, I've found many threads about shell cordovan to be rather confusing. So I'll offer a simple answer.

Cordovan and shell cordovan are often used synonymously to refer to the material used, namely, horse rump. Our esteemed Andy has a great overview:



Andy said:


> Here's what I have in *The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes*:*Cordovan* - durable, non-porous hide made from the shell (circular piece of leather) of the top hindquarters of horses. Named for *Cordova, Spain*.
> 
> It's also the name for a reddish-black shoe *color *even when the leather isn't Cordovan. Cordovan color is also called burgundy, or oxblood.
> 
> The most common colors of real Cordovan shoes are, of course, burgundy and black. However, you can buy Cordovan shoes in dark brown, mahogany, or light tan.Real Shell Cordovan leather is expensive since you can only get two 24 inch diameter pieces each of useable hide per horse. The tanning process is longer than for some other hides, which adds to the price.​The advantage is that it takes a deep shine and is very durable since it's less porous. The disadvantage is it's less porous and thus breathes less than other leather shoes. The creases in cordovan leather are usually lighter not darker in color.​


Often sellers on eBay use "cordovan" to describe the color. But I think this is misleading. "Cordovan" and "shell cordovan" should properly refer to horse rump hide.


----------



## Jovan

Duvel said:


> Somewhat related to the above, is a blazer generally cut, and meant to be worn, just a tad shorter than a sport coat, e.g., a tweed jacket?
> 
> I have navy blazers and sport coats by the same makers, in the same size, and the blazer will be just a bit shorter. Is this the intention?


There are numerous opinions as to what makes a blazer that. But I've only come across the opinion that a blazer/sport coat should be shorter than a suit jacket, and it was on Black Lapel's blog. I somewhat disagree with this notion given that there's kind of an optimal jacket length for every guy.


----------



## SuperTrad

Can someone tell me what the measurements are for this blazer in a 46R, I tried it on the other day in the Brooks Brothers store and it fit perfectly.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Madison-Fit-Two-Button-Classic-1818-Blazer/792M,default,pd.html

Also, on a separate note... I am looking for NATO strap recommendations to put on my black face weekender.


----------



## MythReindeer

How do vintage Florsheims fit? True to Brannock sizing? Large?


----------



## Reuben

MythReindeer said:


> How do vintage Florsheims fit? True to Brannock sizing? Large?


In my experience, TTS or just a smidge wider. If you're between widths the narrower will likely be more comfortable but either should fit.


----------



## MythReindeer

How "bad" are v-cleat heels? Will they do real damage to wood floors? I see them called "suicide heels;" are they that slippery?


----------



## Himself

Jovan said:


> There are numerous opinions as to what makes a blazer that. But I've only come across the opinion that a blazer/sport coat should be shorter than a suit jacket, and it was on Black Lapel's blog. I somewhat disagree with this notion given that there's kind of an optimal jacket length for every guy.


Covering one's seat -- no kancho!


----------



## RT-Bone

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I get the "shorter jacket reads more casual" thing, but it's not enough to mitigate the detailing of the jacket. Shorter jackets read more hip and modern, and make it look like you have agency in what you wear and are choosing to be fashionable, rather than wearing tailored clothing because you must.
> 
> Of course, they often look terrible, so that's an issue.
> 
> RT-Bone, I'm not a huge fan of the Patriot style loafers -- I like my welted pennies to be a touch sleeker. I don't think I'd wear them with a suit (a full-strap penny would be better there). Jeans would be alright.


Which pennies do you dig?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ran23

I just got my Patrick James Glen Plaid suit from alterations (just buttons). I measure shoulder at 17.5", length 31". this was tailored for a high end lawyer, what size would you call this? some where around 37-38? there are two Hong Kong Tailored suits of his I can choose from soon. No sizes but I tried both jakcets and they fit the same. Just found out we are the same height. I will have his dark charcoal suit soon I think.


----------



## ran23

Searching around, i think this size is equal to a 38-R Slim cut. Want that dark charcoal suit.


----------



## MythReindeer

How warm is camel hair, as a sport coat fabric?


----------



## straw sandals

Surprisingly warm. Given an equal thickness of fabric, it's somewhere between wool and cashmere. I love the stuff. I have a J Press sport coat that I wear in the fall and spring before tweed season. When winter arrives, I layer a camel hair cardigan beneath Harris tweed. And, of course, a camel hair polo coat is a beautifully warm choice for braving all but the coldest winter days.



MythReindeer said:


> How warm is camel hair, as a sport coat fabric?


----------



## brandon640

Hey fellow trads. I'm a college student and am in need of a no-fuss everyday lace-ups (no chukkas) preferably with a rubber sole that is versatile enough for everyday wear and the office. I don't mind paying a tad more for something that lasts but I don't think I will go over $300. Oh also, I do own a pair of white bucks which I think is a tad too casual for my taste to wear it in an office. I really do like the simple styling of the Alden All Weather Walkers or the Loake Badmintons but they are kind of over my budget. Any suggestions?


Cordially,
BC


----------



## CMDC

^www.shoebank.com

Allen Edmonds Seconds are your friends. Frequent sales too. Get on their email list.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

CMDC said:


> ^www.shoebank.com
> 
> Allen Edmonds Seconds are your friends. Frequent sales too. Get on their email list.


Gobi chukka, rubber sole, ca. $200: https://www.shoebank.com/FactorySecondInventory.php?STY=8999S&DIM=D&SIZE=100


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Does anyone have direct experience of Kent Wang's MTM? I would assume the best, as I've been happy with everything I've bought from them. I need the canonical navy hopsack blazer, and for once I'd prefer to have it made for me. I'm not asking for evaluations; I'm just interested in the mechanics of MTM, since I've never done this before. 

PMs, if you don't mind, as this is probably not a question of general interest. I'm close to an OTR 46L, so slim fit is out of the question.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

*Stain on wool/silk/linen jacket?*

I think it's some frijoles, so, mercifully, not sangria or salsa picante or something that would leave a colored stain. I assume that Woolite and some warm water should be enough?


----------



## Duvel

Just curious: How much do tattersall and windowpane "dress shirts" figure into your wardrobe? I use the quotation marks because I'm using the term loosely; my so-called dress shirts are Brooks Brothers' so-called dress shirts, i.e., mainly the oxford cloth button-down. 

I don't own any tattersall or window pane shirts that I'd wear with a jacket and tie right now, and I'm wondering about adding some next sale time at Brooks. 

Thanks.


----------



## Duvel

Slide, if it's mainly a food deposit or oil from food, I think your suggestion would work. I've handled a spot like that on similar fabric by dabbing carefully with a damp cloth, then applying a tiny dab of mild detergent to the cloth, dabbing again, and then picking up the detergent with another damp cloth. Don't rub, just dab.



SlideGuitarist said:


> I think it's some frijoles, so, mercifully, not sangria or salsa picante or something that would leave a colored stain. I assume that Woolite and some warm water should be enough?


----------



## Duvel

I'm also considering the bengal stripe.

Please don't make me do the "Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...?" thing.



Duvel said:


> Just curious: How much do tattersall and windowpane "dress shirts" figure into your wardrobe? I use the quotation marks because I'm using the term loosely; my so-called dress shirts are Brooks Brothers' so-called dress shirts, i.e., mainly the oxford cloth button-down.
> 
> I don't own any tattersall or window pane shirts that I'd wear with a jacket and tie right now, and I'm wondering about adding some next sale time at Brooks.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## MythReindeer

Duvel said:


> I'm also considering the bengal stripe.
> 
> Please don't make me do the "Anyone? Anyone? Bueller...?" thing.


I have a BB purple Bengal stripe shirt (non-iron, from when I bought such things) and it's pretty good. I rather like the look of a "graph-paper" type check shirt with a tie, maybe of the solid colored knit sort.


----------



## fred johnson

I have a couple of both and like them a lot. They go very well with tweed and would nicely accent YOUR several outstanding tweeds IMHO. Also good for emblematic ties and solid knits.


Duvel said:


> Just curious: How much do tattersall and windowpane "dress shirts" figure into your wardrobe? I use the quotation marks because I'm using the term loosely; my so-called dress shirts are Brooks Brothers' so-called dress shirts, i.e., mainly the oxford cloth button-down.
> 
> I don't own any tattersall or window pane shirts that I'd wear with a jacket and tie right now, and I'm wondering about adding some next sale time at Brooks.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

MythReindeer said:


> I have a BB purple Bengal stripe shirt (non-iron, from when I bought such things) and it's pretty good. I rather like the look of a "graph-paper" type check shirt with a tie, maybe of the solid colored knit sort.


BB's current gingham BDs are pretty nice, or at least that's my impression from seeing them in the store (the colors seem more subtle than the year before, and they have a nice hand). I'm having Ratio make me some pinpoint BDs with small-scale patterns (and a pink stripe, _so there!_ ), as I don't like the no-iron cloth from BB (or anyone else, not because I'm pedantic, but because I can tell that they don't breathe). RogerP has sported small-scale blue gingham shirts, IIRC. I also like a big, fat stripe like this (listed as a "candy stripe" at T&A), but I associate it with spread collars:


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Duvel said:


> Just curious: How much do tattersall and windowpane "dress shirts" figure into your wardrobe? I use the quotation marks because I'm using the term loosely; my so-called dress shirts are Brooks Brothers' so-called dress shirts, i.e., mainly the oxford cloth button-down.
> 
> I don't own any tattersall or window pane shirts that I'd wear with a jacket and tie right now, and I'm wondering about adding some next sale time at Brooks.
> 
> Thanks.


I like them.


















I wear them with more than just that jacket.

Striped shirts are great, of course. I have a shirt like Slideguitarist's example, in purple poplin with a BD collar. It looks better on my girlfriend, and I'm in no hurry to replace it.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

I, too, am a big fan. Especially of Tattersall. 99% of the time, if I'm wearing tweed, I'm wearing tattersall or check shirting. Goes together like peanut butter and jelly IMHO.


----------



## WillBarrett

Decided to put these in the rotation but unsure of how to wear them. Thoughts from the room? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FLMike

They look like they're ready for a trip to Goodwill to me.


----------



## WillBarrett

FLCracka said:


> They look like they're ready for a trip to Goodwill to me.


They certainly need a good polishing, but I like them as a pair of beaters.


----------



## fred johnson

I hate to say this but clean em up and wear with jeans.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

N00b question, but: I have no navy sport coat. Is the distinction between sport coat and blazer sharp enough that I should not get the following 1818 navy blazer for twice-a-week office-wear? https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Madi...?dwvar_792M_Color=NAVY&contentpos=4&cgid=0218. Quick question 'cuz I've got one set aside right now, and would like to get it at a 30% discount today.


----------



## Duvel

I think it depends on your office environment. I wear a blazer to work. I prefer it to a navy sport coat; the latter always feels too much like an orphaned suit coat to me. I also think a blazer is a must-have.

In other words, if I were you, I'd go for it.



SlideGuitarist said:


> N00b question, but: I have no navy sport coat. Is the distinction between sport coat and blazer sharp enough that I should not get the following 1818 navy blazer for twice-a-week office-wear? https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Madi...?dwvar_792M_Color=NAVY&contentpos=4&cgid=0218. Quick question 'cuz I've got one set aside right now, and would like to get it at a 30% discount today.


----------



## ran23

I just picked a pair of dark moss Chukka boots in 9 1/2. fit was good, now I think they are a touch big on me. any tricks to tighten them?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> I think it depends on your office environment. I wear a blazer to work. I prefer it to a navy sport coat; the latter always feels too much like an orphaned suit coat to me. I also think a blazer is a must-have.
> 
> In other words, if I were you, I'd go for it.


Done. At my office, I'm one of two guys in a jacket, so I don't worry about it. As you said, the navy blazer is a must.

Apropos, I dealt with 3 different SAs at the Georgetown BB store, and all seemed knowledgeable, contrary to my earlier impression.


----------



## Duvel

Excellent! Great choice.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Done. At my office, I'm one of two guys in a jacket, so I don't worry about it. As you said, the navy blazer is a must.
> 
> Apropos, I dealt with 3 different SAs at the Georgetown BB store, and all seemed knowledgeable, contrary to my earlier impression.


----------



## MythReindeer

ran23 said:


> I just picked a pair of dark moss Chukka boots in 9 1/2. fit was good, now I think they are a touch big on me. any tricks to tighten them?


There are tongue pads and heel pads that can be put in, or you can insert a thin insole. Thicker socks will help a bit, if the weather permits.


----------



## ran23

Heel pads may be the way to go, want to use these this weekend on vacation.  thanks!


----------



## Nobleprofessor

Does anyone make an Oxford cloth shirt without Button down collars? I don't mean pinpoint. I mean real oxford cloth but with a point collar?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Nobleprofessor said:


> Does anyone make an Oxford cloth shirt without Button down collars? I don't mean pinpoint. I mean real oxford cloth but with a point collar?


Mercer.


----------



## Duvel

Nobleprofessor said:


> Does anyone make an Oxford cloth shirt without Button down collars? I don't mean pinpoint. I mean real oxford cloth but with a point collar?


"Anything other than a button-down collar is for lounge lizards." - Patrick's father (I saw it on Talk Ivy.)


----------



## SuperTrad

Is it acceptable to wear a tie with a button down collar or should I get a spread collar shirt to be less conspicuous


----------



## WillBarrett

SuperTrad said:


> Is it acceptable to wear a tie with a button down collar or should I get a spread collar shirt to be less conspicuous


The Ivy position is and remains that a BD collar is perfectly acceptable with a tie. It's sort of a bipartisan rule - if JFK and WFB both did it, so can you.


----------



## WillBarrett

Here's a random question - there's a great mens shop in my alma mater's town that has blazer buttons with the school seal on them. I'm trying to think of the proper use of those buttons - a navy blazer? Something else?

I wouldn't want to wear it all the time, lest I turn into a high-class gump (SEC fans will get that), but I think it'd be a lot of fun to have.

Suggestions?


----------



## FLMike

SuperTrad said:


> Is it acceptable to wear a tie with a button down collar or should I get a spread collar shirt to be less conspicuous


How is it that someone with the moniker SuperTrad is asking this question? Moreover, have you noticed any of the fit pics on the Trad WAYWT thread? Sorry, but I am perplexed by this post.


----------



## Duvel

Ha ha. Yes. I was waiting for someone to make this point. I wanted to, and I am glad someone else took the initiative.



FLCracka said:


> How is it that someone with the moniker SuperTrad is asking this question? Moreover, have you noticed any of the fit pics on the Trad WAYWT thread? Sorry, but I am perplexed by this post.


----------



## FLMike

WillBarrett said:


> Here's a random question - there's a great mens shop in my alma mater's town that has blazer buttons with the school seal on them. I'm trying to think of the proper use of those buttons - a navy blazer? Something else?
> 
> I wouldn't want to wear it all the time, lest I turn into a high-class gump (SEC fans will get that), but I think it'd be a lot of fun to have.
> 
> Suggestions?


Here's a hint....they're called blazer buttons.

Just giving you a hard time, obviously. Seriously, though, I have some buttons with my college seal on a J Press navy blazer. I really like the buttons....I just find myself reaching more often for one of my other navy blazers because of those darn shoulders on the Press.


----------



## Duvel

Blazer. Seriously, I'm not trying to be facetious, but they are blazer buttons, after all. I think it would be pretty cool to replace your blazer's buttons with ones from your alma mater. Would add a unique touch.

I can't think of where else they'd be appropriate, really.



WillBarrett said:


> Here's a random question - there's a great mens shop in my alma mater's town that has blazer buttons with the school seal on them. I'm trying to think of the proper use of those buttons - a navy blazer? Something else?
> 
> I wouldn't want to wear it all the time, lest I turn into a high-class gump (SEC fans will get that), but I think it'd be a lot of fun to have.
> 
> Suggestions?


----------



## SuperTrad

I just got a BB '346' outlet quality Navy Blazer. I'm wondering where I can wear it and with what. Can I wear it with shorts?


----------



## Duvel

You can wear it however you see fit. You are SuperTrad, after all.


----------



## Shaver

^unless..... Trad Luthor has perfected plaid Kryptonite?


----------



## ThePopinjay

SuperTrad said:


> I just got a BB '346' outlet quality Navy Blazer. I'm wondering where I can wear it and with what. Can I wear it with shorts?


Yes, you can.


----------



## SuperTrad

Shaver said:


> ^unless..... Trad Luthor has perfected plaid Kryptonite?


:lol:


----------



## SlideGuitarist

What would be good matches for this slightly greenish linen herringbone jacket? I assume this is a natural color for linen? I imagine very light tan linen or cotton poplin trousers? Any suggestions for darker colored trousers, or is that just not done?


----------



## Duvel

One option I'd go with is light stone chinos or twills.



SlideGuitarist said:


> What would be good matches for this slightly greenish linen herringbone jacket? I assume this is a natural color for linen? I imagine very light tan linen or cotton poplin trousers? Any suggestions for darker colored trousers, or is that just not done?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> One option I'd go with is light stone chinos or twills.


Thanks, Duvel! This is not an idle question, as I need to maximize my linen usage over the next few months. I seem to be build for heat _retention_, not dissipation, and it's going to rise to 90 F today. Bill's original twill is 8.5 oz., and I'm wearing a pair now, so I can attest that they're too heavy.


----------



## Duvel

Would you have linen trousers in a stone color? Mine was more a color suggestion than fabric, really. I think possibly a darker tan, in linen, would also work, as long as it was a good deal darker than the jacket.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Thanks, Duvel! This is not an idle question, as I need to maximize my linen usage over the next few months. I seem to be build for heat _retention_, not dissipation, and it's going to rise to 90 F today. Bill's original twill is 8.5 oz., and I'm wearing a pair now, so I can attest that they're too heavy.


----------



## SuperTrad

Another silly question gents,

How do I score good deals on Ebay? 

I've been trying to score my first pair of Allen Edmonds loafers without any luck. I have a search saved with my measurements and style preference....


----------



## MythReindeer

SuperTrad said:


> Another silly question gents,
> 
> How do I score good deals on Ebay?
> 
> I've been trying to score my first pair of Allen Edmonds loafers without any luck. I have a search saved with my measurements and style preference....


Patience. This is not a flippant answer. You just need to wait it out.


----------



## Walter Denton

SuperTrad said:


> Another silly question gents,
> 
> How do I score good deals on Ebay?
> 
> I've been trying to score my first pair of Allen Edmonds loafers without any luck. I have a search saved with my measurements and style preference....


Try this EBay seller, dabondo1. He has a lot of Allen Edmonds, But it Now
prices with Make an Offer and will often accept little more than half his asking price.


----------



## rufus4299

Walter Denton said:


> Try this EBay seller, dabondo1. He has a lot of Allen Edmonds, But it Now
> prices with Make an Offer and will often accept little more than half his asking price.


I second this. I made an (admittedly) absurdly low offer on a pair of suede chukkas with a slight defect recently and he accepted it almost instantly. They have been delivered but I haven't been home to pick them up yet, so can't comment on the shoes. The transaction, however, was fast, easy, and best of all, cheap!


----------



## mhj

Does the forum think that $90 is reasonable price for a pair of used Alden Cape Cod Beefrolls in very good condition?


----------



## eagle2250

^^The Alden Beefroll Penny design you reference do have a fairly positive group of followers that regularly post herein and I too must admit to being an Alden fan in general. However, The Cape Code penny design is not one that favorably impressed me. I've a fair number of Alden loafer designs in my rotation and the Cape Cod series is the only one that seemed to consistently exhibit a lot of lateral slippage on my feet every time I found myself treading uneven ground/turf. I found this to be true with both the Penny and the Horse bit design options. Perhaps the fit for said series just doesn't work well with the shape of my feet. On the other hand my flex welt horse bits, my LHS's (three pair) and my Tassel Loafers all provide good to great lateral support to my feet. Therefore, I am not inclined to recommend the Cape Cod series.


----------



## LeeLo

Walter Denton said:


> Try this EBay seller, dabondo1. He has a lot of Allen Edmonds, But it Now
> prices with Make an Offer and will often accept little more than half his asking price.


I third this! Excellent seller, offered dabondo1 nearly half of the listed price for a pair of loafers recently and they willingly accepted. Very reasonable and honest seller.


----------



## mhj

Since I didn't get a reply in a short amount of time I pulled the trigger last night so that I wouldn't lose them. He accepted my offer of $80. We'll see how they work out, loafers are difficult for me to begin with but I seem to wear my various ones almost daily.



eagle2250 said:


> ^^The Alden Beefroll Penny design you reference do have a fairly positive group of followers that regularly post herein and I too must admit to being an Alden fan in general. However, The Cape Code penny design is not one that favorably impressed me. I've a fair number of Alden loafer designs in my rotation and the Cape Cod series is the only one that seemed to consistently exhibit a lot of lateral slippage on my feet every time I found myself treading uneven ground/turf. I found this to be true with both the Penny and the Horse bit design options. Perhaps the fit for said series just doesn't work well with the shape of my feet. On the other hand my flex welt horse bits, my LHS's (three pair) and my Tassel Loafers all provide good to great lateral support to my feet. Therefore, I am not inclined to recommend the Cape Cod series.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
:thumbs-up: It's all In the fit. Hope it proves to be a successful quest for you!


----------



## SuperTrad

I checked out Dabondo1's Allen Edmonds selection, the only penny loafers I saw that were decently priced were in odd widths...:mad2:


----------



## Duvel

Any advice or tricks for getting the best knot with a silk knit tie? I tend to get skinny knots. I can get a good knot with a four-in-hand but it takes a number of tries, and I'm usually not sure how I got there.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> Any advice or tricks for getting the best knot with a silk knit tie? I tend to get skinny knots. I can get a good knot with a four-in-hand but it takes a number of tries, and I'm usually not sure how I got there.


StColumba consistently uses the double 4IH in which the blade is wrapped around twice, and then passes through both wraps. I find it hard to get a dimple with this form, but it's significantly more bulky than the 1x4IH. The other method is to pass the blade under only the second wrap of the two. I use one of these whenever I have a thinner repp tie. I almost never use the 1x4IH with an OCBD, because it's too small to push the collar up into the nice curve we all want.


----------



## Duvel

Thanks, Slide. I'll give that a shot. I do use the 2X4IH on other skinnier ties, and on longer ones. I prefer to slip it under the first pass, as StC does. Makes it rather distinctive. I've seen this knot called the Prince Albert, by the way.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> Thanks, Slide. I'll give that a shot. I do use the 2X4IH on other skinnier ties, and on longer ones. I prefer to slip it under the first pass, as StC does. Makes it rather distinctive. I've seen this knot called the Prince Albert, by the way.


I know nothing about British establishment style, but I began to prefer these knots after seeing them on _Sherlock_. StColumba clinched it for me.


----------



## Oldsport

@eagle2250 - I concur regarding the Alden Cape Cod Penney Loafers. I have a pair that I splurged on ($300+ for Penny Loafers is splurging to me). They just do not like to stay on my feet. In addition, there is no lateral stability. I've nearly hurt my ankle several times. Ironically, my Sebago Loafers fit great, feel great, and are wearing very nicely with little creasing, for $124 ... go figure...


----------



## ran23

I just got a fine charcoal suit by Charms Internatinal, Kowloon, HK. possible from the late 90's. A fine suit, but a search here did not show up anything about charms. ???


----------



## SlideGuitarist

ran23 said:


> I just got a fine charcoal suit by Charms Internatinal, Kowloon, HK. possible from the late 90's. A fine suit, but a search here did not show up anything about charms. ???


No? https://www.charms.hk/contactus.html


----------



## ran23

thanks, actaully I was wondering about quality and fit. working sleeve buttons on this suit and additional inside pockets are neat.


----------



## orange fury

I've always liked cardigans but have had a fair amount of trouble with fit- the only cardigans I've tried that fit me well are the Lands End Drifter and the Ralph Lauren Pima cotton. I've wanted a wool cardigan for cooler months and really liked the Brooks signature tartan, so when it went on sale I ordered two different sizes. I wanted to get opinions on fit before returning one.

Small:









Medium:









i feel like the small fits better overall, but because of the lether buttons, there's very slight pulling at the placket. I feel like the sleeves of the medium are too long and the body a bit too baggy, so I would need the sides taken in a bit. I'm leaning more towards the small, but I wanted to have other eyes look at it first.


----------



## Duvel

The medium looks more comfortable to me, especially if I imagine it with a regular OCBD or such instead of a T-shirt. A shirt will take up some room.


----------



## Pentheos

orange fury said:


> ...so I would need the sides taken in a bit


A slim-fit cardigan...lol...why not?


----------



## Duvel

OF, if you go with the medium, and I think you should, do not alter it. It is fine as it is, and I am guessing it would be even finer with a shirt under it. Cardigans and sweaters in general should not be too slim.

In general, clothes that are overly slim can make a guy look uptight, tense. You have to look a bit relaxed in clothes, in sweaters especially.


----------



## zeppacoustic

^+1, like the medium. You just wearing an undershirt beneath?


----------



## eagle2250

The medium provides you with a much better fit, orange fury. Great looking cardigan!


----------



## bgf86nupe

I have an old canali proposta suit that I would like to replace with the exact same one but a size larger. I have a picture of the label inside the pants but I don't understand the information on the label besides the fabric. Any assistance will be greatly appreciated


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

OF: Wear the medium. Cuff the sleeves. Wear a real shirt (). It's a cardigan. It's supposed to have ease.

BGF86, I don't think Canali still makes the Proposta line.


----------



## Orgetorix

I disagree. The medium looks sloppy; the small looks like it fits well.


----------



## orange fury

Yesterday I had already thrown my dress shirt in the laundry, here are the sweaters with an OCBD:



















it seems like the pretty unanimous opinion is to go with the medium, but I guess the medium just feels a bit frumpy to me, like it's loose to the point of not actually fitting...


----------



## buckguy32

My doc is going to be angry or perplexed at best, but I am going to request a tradly circumcision at age 59. It will be worth it. Cuffed too!:hi:


----------



## HerrDavid

I think the small looks fine. More importantly though, it seems like _you _don't like how you feel in the medium. That's a big strike against it.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

HerrDavid said:


> I think the small looks fine. More importantly though, it seems like _you _don't like how you feel in the medium. That's a big strike against it.


Yeah, looking at them with the shirt underneath (rather than mentally adding the excess width added by the shirt, which I used to think I was good at), I gotta say, the small looks good.


----------



## LeeLo

OF - Considering you like things on the slimmer side I would go with the small. The cardigan should stretch out just a tad over time to give you an ideal fit.


----------



## mhj

What is the consensus on wearing a spread collar shirt with a sack suit? I am not one that objects to a BD with a suit and that is usually what I wear with a sack but I looking for a little variety. What about a tab collar?


----------



## L-feld

mhj said:


> What is the consensus on wearing a spread collar shirt with a sack suit? I am not one that objects to a BD with a suit and that is usually what I wear with a sack but I looking for a little variety. What about a tab collar?


About 1 out of 4 times I see Eddie Jacobs, he is wearing a spread collar, and I've never seen him wear anything but a sack.

Bob Prenner also frequently wears spread collars, although with his modified 2 button sack cut.

Jovan Gauthier also wears spread collars with sack suits.

I don't wear spread collars because they look weird on me, but if I did wear spread collars, I would not hesitate to wear them with a sack.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

mhj said:


> What is the consensus on wearing a spread collar shirt with a sack suit? I am not one that objects to a BD with a suit and that is usually what I wear with a sack but I looking for a little variety. What about a tab collar?


I think it's fine, but I don't wear sack suits. Billax doesn't do it. You need to keep the width of the lapel in sync with the length of the collar.

Tab collars A-OK with sack suits.


----------



## Duvel

Orange, I think you're one of those fortunate people who can look good in a range of sizes. Seeing these photos now, with the shirt, I really could not tell you which one I prefer. You look great in both! It really has to be about which size you feel best in.

And, I want you to know that you have once again been a source of inspiration to me. Based on your example here, I HAD to buy that sweater, too. I think it is classic and classy, and at the price (marked down by $173!), I could not pass it up. Thanks a lot.  (I ordered a large, my usual size.)



orange fury said:


> Yesterday I had already thrown my dress shirt in the laundry, here are the sweaters with an OCBD:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it seems like the pretty unanimous opinion is to go with the medium, but I guess the medium just feels a bit frumpy to me, like it's loose to the point of not actually fitting...


----------



## MythReindeer

orange fury said:


> Yesterday I had already thrown my dress shirt in the laundry, here are the sweaters with an OCBD:
> 
> (pics)
> 
> it seems like the pretty unanimous opinion is to go with the medium, but I guess the medium just feels a bit frumpy to me, like it's loose to the point of not actually fitting...


I like the way the small looks. When I try on clothes I try to be otherwise dressed as I would be when wearing the item in question. This has gotten a couple of bemused reactions, but I really can't see a reason not to do it.


----------



## Fading Fast

OF, based on your style, I think the small works better for you (neither is wrong, the medium gives a more traditional fit, but the small is not "slim" or "super skinny," just less full) and as to the slight pull, I'd ignore it as, my experience, is that with a little wear, it will stretch out a bit and that tiny pull will go away.


----------



## gamma68

So the insole of one of my Eastland tassel loafers came unglued (they weren't set very well in the first place, and it's obviously not first-rate construction). I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happend to the other shoe in the not-too-distant future. As you can see, the outer edge of the insoles was never attached -- only the cheap foam part was glued.

I bought these shoes second-hand but they were practically as-new. I've worn them a fair amount in the last few weeks and they are not returnable. They are made in Maine, corrected grain, and otherwise of decent quality. This is to say I'm stuck with the shoes, and although I like them enough, I don't want to spend a ton of money on them.

Would a cobbler be able to fashion up some kind of superior replacement insole for reasonable cost? Or should I just use some kind of adhesive to reset it in place? The outer edges of the insoles were apparently never firmly attached, and it seems to me that should also be rectified.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## orange fury

Thanks for all the input guys, ended up sticking with the small.



Duvel said:


> Orange, I think you're one of those fortunate people who can look good in a range of sizes. Seeing these photos now, with the shirt, I really could not tell you which one I prefer. You look great in both! It really has to be about which size you feel best in.
> 
> And, I want you to know that you have once again been a source of inspiration to me. Based on your example here, I HAD to buy that sweater, too. I think it is classic and classy, and at the price (marked down by $173!), I could not pass it up. Thanks a lot.  (I ordered a large, my usual size.)


I appreciate it! And you're welcome 

it it really is a wonderful sweater, I imagine it'll get a ton of use this November/December. Brooks really did a wonderful job with their "signature tartan", I was able to snag all three of the bow tie patterns for Christmas season as well. The lambswool they used is wonderful as well.



Fading Fast said:


> OF, based on your style, I think the small works better for you (neither is wrong, the medium gives a more traditional fit, but the small is not "slim" or "super skinny," just less full) and as to the slight pull, I'd ignore it as, my experience, is that with a little wear, it will stretch out a bit and that tiny pull will go away.


this was something I thought about as well, I used to have two PRL lambswool v-neck sweaters that eventually stretched out to where they were much too big. I figure this will eventually do that as well


----------



## Duvel

I see mine becoming a staple mid- and late winter item. I'll report more when it arrives tomorrow (via shoprunner--gotta love that service).


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> ...this was something I thought about as well, I used to have two PRL lambswool v-neck sweaters that eventually stretched out to where they were much too big. I figure this will eventually do that as well


Chinos, jeans and some dress shirts shrink over time from (I guess) the heat of the dryer, but most sweaters stretch over time. I am frustrated by how many of the lower bands of my sweaters have done that so that the sweater now just hangs and I can't get it to billow nicely at the waist anymore. And that is one expensive tailoring fix (which many tailors won't even do).

Long way of saying (that FF can go on about nothing) that I think you made the right call.


----------



## WillBarrett

Hoping to get a very quick answer on this - I'm about to send suit pants to the seasmstress - what should my cuff size be?

I'm 5'10" with a 28-ish" inseam.

Thanks, y'all.


----------



## orange fury

WillBarrett said:


> Hoping to get a very quick answer on this - I'm about to send suit pants to the seasmstress - what should my cuff size be?
> 
> I'm 5'10" with a 28-ish" inseam.
> 
> Thanks, y'all.


I'm 5'11" with a 31" inseam and generally get 1.5"


----------



## bloogy

Gamma: I would say yes. I have a pair of AE split toe bluchers that came with a closed cell foam insole (like the more recent LLB camp mocs). They never fit me right with the insole inserted but of course I didn't figure that out until I could no longer return them. The insole of the shoe was not lined or finished as one would expect, which I guess the padded insole was supposed to hide. My cobbler was able to glue in a leather insole/liner which covered the stitching. He did not fashion what he used but took it out of a package so they are definitely commercially available. And htey have worn well. The one difference between that and what you seem to be contemplating is that the Sebagos appear to have a very light pad under the insole, but what I am describing was just a flat piece of leather.

BTW, I have admired these shoes every time you have posted them. In form and shape they remind me very much of the made-in-USA Bass tassel loafers I wore in high school, circa 1983-86.



gamma68 said:


> So the insole of one of my Eastland tassel loafers came unglued (they weren't set very well in the first place, and it's obviously not first-rate construction). I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happend to the other shoe in the not-too-distant future. As you can see, the outer edge of the insoles was never attached -- only the cheap foam part was glued.
> 
> I bought these shoes second-hand but they were practically as-new. I've worn them a fair amount in the last few weeks and they are not returnable. They are made in Maine, corrected grain, and otherwise of decent quality. This is to say I'm stuck with the shoes, and although I like them enough, I don't want to spend a ton of money on them.
> 
> Would a cobbler be able to fashion up some kind of superior replacement insole for reasonable cost? Or should I just use some kind of adhesive to reset it in place? The outer edges of the insoles were apparently never firmly attached, and it seems to me that should also be rectified.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## fred johnson

gamma,
You can buy a leather insole replacement which you can glue in yourself (if needed) or have your cobbler get one and install for you, they are readily available.
I am not sure if they are available foam backed but your cobbler should know.


----------



## Reuben

mhj said:


> What is the consensus on wearing a spread collar shirt with a sack suit? I am not one that objects to a BD with a suit and that is usually what I wear with a sack but I looking for a little variety. What about a tab collar?


I think it works pretty well here:


----------



## SlideGuitarist

This might merit a thread, but does anyone own a Gitman uni - stripe OCBD? I see them at the Orvis Web site. There, the color appears pink, which I'd prefer to the slightly darker red of the Brooks version. I'm considering MTM, but I wonder who has these RTW.


----------



## ZRM

How can I decipher if my recently acquired tassels from BB that I purchased from ebay are Aldens or AEs or other?







[/URL]







[/URL][/IMG]

Thanks 
Zachary


----------



## CMDC

^I'd be almost 100% sure those are Aldens. I don't think AE makes the Grayson for Brooks, and if they did, it was only very recently.


----------



## mhj

SlideGuitarist said:


> This might merit a thread, but does anyone own a Gitman uni - stripe OCBD? I see them at the Orvis Web site. There, the color appears pink, which I'd prefer to the slightly darker red of the Brooks version. I'm considering MTM, but I wonder who has these RTW.


Mercer and Sons has a very nice pink uni-stripe OCBD


----------



## Duvel

Nice looking shirt, Slide. I don't own one. I can offer, though, that my Brooks pink university stripe is not really very red. I think Brooks advertises it as burgundy, but it does not appear very burgundy to me.



SlideGuitarist said:


> This might merit a thread, but does anyone own a Gitman uni - stripe OCBD? I see them at the Orvis Web site. There, the color appears pink, which I'd prefer to the slightly darker red of the Brooks version. I'm considering MTM, but I wonder who has these RTW.


----------



## Tilton

SlideGuitarist said:


> This might merit a thread, but does anyone own a Gitman uni - stripe OCBD? I see them at the Orvis Web site. There, the color appears pink, which I'd prefer to the slightly darker red of the Brooks version. I'm considering MTM, but I wonder who has these RTW.


I own the pink Gitman/Orvis uni-stripe. It is unquestionably pink. Not as pale/bright pink as a similar shirt I own from BB (which is in no way misconstrued as red), but definitively pink nevertheless. I can post of a pic of the two together if you'd like.


----------



## HerrDavid

What mhj said. $129 is too much for an alpha-sized shirt IMO.


----------



## ZRM

Thats what I thought too...I did some research and comparisons...I was 90% sure they were Aldens...figured I get a second opinion... Thank you for the response!


----------



## bloogy

I have the pink, and the purple. The pink is indeed pink. Not super pale, but not fuschia eiether. It is, IMHO, less pink than the purple is purple. They are very nice shirts but agree with other posters that $129 is an awful lot. They do go on sale periodically. As to fit, these days I am probably 15 3/4 and 33 sleeve and the M fits me perfectly.



SlideGuitarist said:


> This might merit a thread, but does anyone own a Gitman uni - stripe OCBD? I see them at the Orvis Web site. There, the color appears pink, which I'd prefer to the slightly darker red of the Brooks version. I'm considering MTM, but I wonder who has these RTW.


----------



## Tilton

bloogy said:


> I have the pink, and the purple. The pink is indeed pink. Not super pale, but not fuschia eiether. It is, IMHO, less pink than the purple is purple. They are very nice shirts but agree with other posters that $129 is an awful lot. They do go on sale periodically. As to fit, these days I am probably 15 3/4 and 33 sleeve and the M fits me perfectly.


Agree on fit. I'm 17x36 and the fit in XL is very on-point. Body size is about identical to the BB Regular fit - roomy, but not billowy like a Traditional Fit. Also, I happen to be wearing the blue Gitman/Orvis uni-stripe today, and it is, to my eye, the best blue/white uni-stripe around, in terms of color.


----------



## orange fury

Anyone have any opinions on or experience with the Persol PO3058S? I need some new sunglasses to replace some Rayban 2140 Wayfarers- I really wanted to get some 714's, but they look horrible on me.


----------



## MythReindeer

Buying from the Allen Edmonds shoe bank: having a mislabeled size is possible, yes? I bought some Daltons in my usual size and I can barely get my feet inside. When I do pull them on, my feet are tightly squeezed. I have other AEs in my size, and those are built on a variety of lasts at that, and none are nearly as tight. The Dalton is built on the 511 last, which is supposedly fuller fitting in the toe area. These boots are not that.


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> Anyone have any opinions on or experience with the Persol PO3058S? I need some new sunglasses to replace some Rayban 2140 Wayfarers- I really wanted to get some 714's, but they look horrible on me.


OF, I've never owned those, but have heard good things about Persol glasses for years and they are on my list of potential sunglasses to buy. That said, based on the shape of your face and head, I'd encourage you to move away from the "heavy" frame you are looking at to consider something like these Persols as I think they would look great on you:



Link to Persol page:

https://www.persol.com/usa/sunglasses/design/PO2388S/1017-31#b


----------



## zeppacoustic

orange fury said:


> Anyone have any opinions on or experience with the Persol PO3058S? I need some new sunglasses to replace some Rayban 2140 Wayfarers- I really wanted to get some 714's, but they look horrible on me.


OF- did not try that model but I recently got a pair of PO2994S in Havana and love them. I found the key with Persols is to try on a bunch of frames to see what fits your face best.


----------



## orange fury

Fading Fast said:


> OF, I've never owned those, but have heard good things about Persol glasses for years and they are on my list of potential sunglasses to buy. That said, based on the shape of your face and head, I'd encourage you to move away from the "heavy" frame you are looking at to consider something like these Persols as I think they would look great on you:
> 
> 
> 
> Link to Persol page:
> 
> https://www.persol.com/usa/sunglasses/design/PO2388S/1017-31#b


unfortunately, round frames look terrible on me - part of the reason I can't get the 714's to work (and why I've worn Wayfarers since college). Another pair im looking at are the 3028's, which seem to be a squared version of the 714.

persol makes great glasses, but the trick is finding the right pair


----------



## Fading Fast

orange fury said:


> unfortunately, round frames look terrible on me - part of the reason I can't get the 714's to work (and why I've worn Wayfarers since college). Another pair im looking at are the 3028's, which seem to be a squared version of the 714.
> 
> persol makes great glasses, but the trick is finding the right pair


The 3028 are fantastic looking, but still pretty heavy frame. What about the "typewriter" edition that I just found when I was checking out the 3028s? Not round, very classic inspired and, IMHO, less frame which would be good for you? Here's an image of two, but there are more options:


----------



## LonelyAreTheBrave

What is the the chest measurement on a current Brooks Brothers made in USA traditional fit size 15.5 34 OCBD shirt?


----------



## alkydrinker

*Stretchy/Elastic Surcingle, D-ring belt...pointless?*

Is there any benefit to a surcingle, D-ring belt being stretchy (like elastic)? Do any of you wear belts with this feature and like it?

I just bought a BB surcingle, D-ring on the bay and was very disappointed when I received it and found it to be very stretchy. What's the point?...this style of belt already has infinite adjustments. I want my belt to maintain constant, firm pressure. I guess I wasted $17 and should have just bought another Eliza B.

I guess this is another abomination to try to cater to fat people...although even if fat I don't think I want my belt stretching.


----------



## Duvel

I'd say it's for those who like an extra piece of cake for desert.  I agree. I don't like stretchy surcingles, and they seem to go against the purpose of a belt. Can you return it? O'Connell's offers great ones that are not stretchy.



alkydrinker said:


> Is there any benefit to a surcingle, D-ring belt being stretchy (like elastic)? Do any of you wear belts with this feature and like it?
> 
> I just bought a BB surcingle, D-ring on the bay and was very disappointed when I received it and found it to be very stretchy. What's the point?...this style of belt already has infinite adjustments. I want my belt to maintain constant, firm pressure. I guess I wasted $17 and should have just bought another Eliza B.
> 
> I guess this is another abomination to try to cater to fat people...although even if fat I don't think I want my belt stretching.


----------



## jimw

GANT

I am considering this eBay listing: - seems like a nice, summer-appropriate SC.

I've never seen a GANT jacket in the flesh - are their garments normally natural-shouldered - I don't mind a 'bit' of padding, but if its excessive then I'm not interested. I can't tell by this photo - any thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## mick80

I have a Gant sportcoat and it has a bit of padding, perfect for me really, but can't speak to what this one may have based on the pictures. Quick observation on button stance for this coat: it appears from the pictures that the stance is quite low, I have found these not to work well for me as I prefer a higher stance. The button spacing seems a bit close too for my tastes.



jimw said:


> GANT
> 
> I am considering this eBay listing: - seems like a nice, summer-appropriate SC.
> 
> I've never seen a GANT jacket in the flesh - are their garments normally natural-shouldered - I don't mind a 'bit' of padding, but if its excessive then I'm not interested. I can't tell by this photo - any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Rondazzle

Gentlemen,

Any thoughts on the gap between the front of the shoe and the sole? I bought these Graysons as seconds and they are otherwise flawless. You can't see the gap at all when wearing the shoes, my only concern is structural integrity.










Thanks,


----------



## Orgetorix

The welt is pulling away from the upper, probably due to a misstep in the lasting/welting processes. You might be able to wear them without it getting worse, but they won't be as water-resistant, and if water gets into the area between the sole and the insole where it can't dry out easily, things could deteriorate. 

If AE had more than two levels to their grading system, those would be thirds or fourths, not seconds. I wouldn't keep them.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

*Ideal Pinpoint BD collar?*

I know there's a _ne plus ultra_ for OCBD collars. I'm about to order one or two pinpoint shirts from Ratio. Are there any special instructions I could or should give them regarding the collar?


----------



## L-feld

SlideGuitarist said:


> I know there's a _ne plus ultra_ for OCBD collars. I'm about to order one or two pinpoint shirts from Ratio. Are there any special instructions I could or should give them regarding the collar?


Depends. If you plan on wearing it with a tie, getting the long roll collar will look amazing.

If you don't wear it with a tie, the long roll will be pretty floppy. Fine if you don't mind looking a little rumpled. You might want to invest in a can of sizing.

If you are never wearing it with a tie and want a more crisp look, get the normal button down collar.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

L-feld said:


> Depends. If you plan on wearing it with a tie, getting the long roll collar will look amazing.
> 
> If you don't wear it with a tie, the long roll will be pretty floppy. Fine if you don't mind looking a little rumpled. You might want to invest in a can of sizing.
> 
> If you are never wearing it with a tie and want a more crisp look, get the normal button down collar.


Thanks, Baltimore! I don't mind looking rumpled, not at all, and as I prefer to wear a tie anyway, I may as well go all-out on the collar.


----------



## Rondazzle

Orgetorix said:


> The welt is pulling away from the upper, probably due to a misstep in the lasting/welting processes. You might be able to wear them without it getting worse, but they won't be as water-resistant, and if water gets into the area between the sole and the insole where it can't dry out easily, things could deteriorate.
> 
> If AE had more than two levels to their grading system, those would be thirds or fourths, not seconds. I wouldn't keep them.


Thank you for your insight. Time to send them back.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

*Older Brooks Bros. label*

This looks legit, right? It's on what appears to be an NOS shirt, the sizing still on the collar. Since I never shopped at Brooks Bros. before a few years ago, I'm unfamiliar with the format of this label.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

L-feld said:


> Depends. If you plan on wearing it with a tie, getting the long roll collar will look amazing.
> 
> If you don't wear it with a tie, the long roll will be pretty floppy. Fine if you don't mind looking a little rumpled. You might want to invest in a can of sizing.
> 
> If you are never wearing it with a tie and want a more crisp look, get the normal button down collar.


Here's me in a Bengal striped sport shirt from Bill's Khakis, with an unlined collar (very floppy/casual). Looks fine to me. Ratio will make an unlined collar, for what it's worth.


----------



## orange fury

Wanted fit opinions on these two jackets, specifically the shoulders. Both are 100% linen Lauren RL (navy is a sportcoat, white is a suit). I was concerned when I put it on that the shoulders might be too large. I know I'm going to have to let out the sleeves if I keep them, but that would be easy enough:


----------



## Duvel

The shoulders look fine to me, OF.


----------



## Fading Fast

OF, the shoulders look okay to me (no puckering or billowing - but that's something that I would notice more as you moved), but you should be able to tell by feel. You (I'm just guessing, own a few other jackets ) and if this one feels off / big it probably is. 

I can tell immediately when I put a jacket on if it is too large in the shoulders. I don't want the jacket to fit snug, but loose is no better - there should be a good fit feel like, or nearly like, your favorite jacket. 

Away from that, I like the the look of both, but the cream one comes through with more texture in the picture - but I think that is just because its light.


----------



## orange fury

I think the problem is the level of padding- this is what the shoulder looks like with my hand in my pocket:




i did notice the blue wasn't nearly as bad as the white


----------



## Duvel

That's a different story, then, OF. I don't think it's a matter of size as much as construction.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> That's a different story, then, OF. I don't think it's a matter of size as much as construction.


+1, I thought you were asking about fit. As to padding, those jackets have more than I like because _any_ is more than I like, but since I buy clothes in the real world, I buy jackets with padding. I wouldn't pass because of the padding if everything else worked, but being a classic looking jacket in general in an old-world fabric, it would look sharper with a more natural shoulder.


----------



## orange fury

Thanks for the feedback guys, I ended up returning both- I loved the fabric, but the padding/shoulder made me feel like I was wearing a jacket much too large for me. The search continues for an affordable white linen suit...

i asked this this in acquisitions but havent received a response yet, so I figured I'd post here. I bought a pair of AE Boardrooms from JAB yesterday (basically a PA on the 7 last). They were never worn before, but i noticed some creasing by the eyelets (it looks like the sales associate may have caused it when he was lacing up the shoe). Is this something I should see about exchanging them over or is this a normal thing?:


















I haven't really owned nice shoes before, so this is somewhat new territory for me


----------



## MythReindeer

OF: A bit of internet research indicates that the Boardroom and Park Avenue are identical in everything but the last used. I have two pairs of PAs and each has some creasing around the eyelets similar to what you show. The second picture is very brightly lit, so it may look worse. Your shoes may need some conditioning; who knows how long they sat in that JAB's stock room?


----------



## orange fury

MythReindeer said:


> OF: A bit of internet research indicates that the Boardroom and Park Avenue are identical in everything but the last used. I have two pairs of PAs and each has some creasing around the eyelets similar to what you show. The second picture is very brightly lit, so it may look worse. Your shoes may need some conditioning; who knows how long they sat in that JAB's stock room?


Sounds good, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't something that was going to turn into an issue down the road- it wasn't cracking or anything, but I just wasn't sure if that was normal creasing


----------



## WillBarrett

Thoughts on an ecru pinpoint with a madras tie?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sskim3

WillBarrett said:


> Thoughts on an ecru pinpoint with a madras tie?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I dig it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Duvel

Photo?



WillBarrett said:


> Thoughts on an ecru pinpoint with a madras tie?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## L-feld

SlideGuitarist said:


> This looks legit, right? It's on what appears to be an NOS shirt, the sizing still on the collar. Since I never shopped at Brooks Bros. before a few years ago, I'm unfamiliar with the format of this label.


Yeah, it's legit. They haven't used that label in a while. Looks like a nice pattern.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Here's me in a Bengal striped sport shirt from Bill's Khakis, with an unlined collar (very floppy/casual). Looks fine to me. Ratio will make an unlined collar, for what it's worth.


Looks good to me. I recently acquired two broadcloth shirts from ratio with unlined collars. I'm very happy with them.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## alkydrinker

orange fury said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys, I ended up returning both- I loved the fabric, but the padding/shoulder made me feel like I was wearing a jacket much too large for me. The search continues for an affordable white linen suit...


Probably a good move. As you probably know, that "Lauren Ralph Lauren" brand has no real relation to the Polo brand and their stuff is pretty low quality. I've tried on a handful of their jackets with the same result as you experienced: big, ugly shoulders. At that quality level (ie Macys-esque), I've found Tommy Hilfiger jackets are a bit better...shoulders aren't huge. But I'd still rather search for a good deal on something better made.

I got coaxed into a good deal on a mid-blue, cotton summer Hilfiger jacket at the Rack (the white buttons sucked me in). It looked good in the store, but over time I realized the shoulders were a little boxy, albeit not wide, and I just wished I put the money toward something else. If you'd have kept those Lauren jackets I think you would've regretted it too.


----------



## Duvel

Isn't a LRL suit around $500 to $600? Wouldn't it be better to spend that money at O'Connell's on one of their summer poplin suits?



alkydrinker said:


> Probably a good move. As you probably know, that "Lauren Ralph Lauren" brand has no real relation to the Polo brand and their stuff is pretty low quality. I've tried on a handful of their jackets with the same result as you experienced: big, ugly shoulders. At that quality level (ie Macys-esque), I've found Tommy Hilfiger jackets are a bit better...shoulders aren't huge. But I'd still rather search for a good deal on something better made.
> 
> I got coaxed into a good deal on a mid-blue, cotton summer Hilfiger jacket at the Rack (the white buttons sucked me in). It looked good in the store, but over time I realized the shoulders were a little boxy, albeit not wide, and I just wished I put the money toward something else. If you'd have kept those Lauren jackets I think you would've regretted it too.


----------



## orange fury

alkydrinker said:


> Probably a good move. As you probably know, that "Lauren Ralph Lauren" brand has no real relation to the Polo brand and their stuff is pretty low quality. I've tried on a handful of their jackets with the same result as you experienced: big, ugly shoulders. At that quality level (ie Macys-esque), I've found Tommy Hilfiger jackets are a bit better...shoulders aren't huge. But I'd still rather search for a good deal on something better made.
> 
> I got coaxed into a good deal on a mid-blue, cotton summer Hilfiger jacket at the Rack (the white buttons sucked me in). It looked good in the store, but over time I realized the shoulders were a little boxy, albeit not wide, and I just wished I put the money toward something else. If you'd have kept those Lauren jackets I think you would've regretted it too.


True, I had a navy LRL blazer a long time ago that wasn't great, but it got the job done.

I ended up replacing the jacket with a completely unstructured/unlined linen one from J Crew Factory- inexpensive, and pretty decent actually. To be honest, I've raided JC Factory for suits for work recently-at sub $100 levels, they're not bad at all (and they fit me well off the rack)


----------



## alkydrinker

Duvel said:


> Isn't a LRL suit around $500 to $600? Wouldn't it be better to spend that money at O'Connell's on one of their summer poplin suits?


He said he returned them. But $500-$600? No....LRL suits go for a song on STP...pretty sure less than $200. I sometimes get tempted for a split second when I see an interesting fabric but then I quickly remember those awful shoulders and come to my senses.


----------



## Duvel

I see. I can understand the impetus for buying suits cheap. At the same time, I think it would be far better to spend, say, $600 at at place like O'Connell's on one suit than three or four for $100 to $200 each. Why not have one suit you love wearing instead of a bunch that are simply serviceable?



alkydrinker said:


> He said he returned them. But $500-$600? No....LRL suits go for a song on STP...pretty sure less than $200. I sometimes get tempted for a split second when I see an interesting fabric but then I quickly remember those awful shoulders and come to my senses.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> I see. I can understand the impetus for buying suits cheap. At the same time, I think it would be far better to spend, say, $600 at at place like O'Connell's on one suit than three or four for $100 to $200 each. Why not have one suit you love wearing instead of a bunch that are simply serviceable?


I have to wear a suit 5 days a week for work (no casual Friday's, and no sportcoats/dress pants), so I have to have a rotation (and cost is definitely a consideration). I actually do love wearing the J Crew suits I have- while only decent quality, they fit me close to perfect OTR (so no tailoring expenses). That $600 for one O'Connells suit bought me 5 suits on sale at J Crew- I'll eventually start supplementing/replacing with nicer stuff, but they work great for me where I'm at in my career right now.

Also, the LRL suit was $180 and the sportcoat was $80- I would never pay retail for one lol (and honestly, the JC suits I have are nicer)

As an aside, I only received one response on my Allen Edmonds purchase question- does the creasing by the eyelets look normal or is that something I should exchange over?


----------



## Duvel

That certainly makes sense, OF. Sorry, I thought you just grabbing these for "fun" not for work. I definitely think some of the J. Crew suiting works, although I do think you have to be careful about sizing, because they do live on the slim-fit side of the fashion world.



orange fury said:


> I have to wear a suit 5 days a week for work (no casual Friday's, and no sportcoats/dress pants), so I have to have a rotation (and cost is definitely a consideration). I actually do love wearing the J Crew suits I have- while only decent quality, they fit me close to perfect OTR (so no tailoring expenses). That $600 for one O'Connells suit bought me 5 suits on sale at J Crew- I'll eventually start supplementing/replacing with nicer stuff, but they work great for me where I'm at in my career right now.
> 
> Also, the LRL suit was $180 and the sportcoat was $80- I would never pay retail for one lol (and honestly, the JC suits I have are nicer)
> 
> As an aside, I only received one response on my Allen Edmonds purchase question- does the creasing by the eyelets look normal or is that something I should exchange over?


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> That certainly makes sense, OF. Sorry, I thought you just grabbing these for "fun" not for work. I definitely think some of the J. Crew suiting works, although I do think you have to be careful about sizing, because they do live on the slim-fit side of the fashion world.


Not a problem- I went from a polo/chinos environment to wearing a suit 5 days a week, so I had to quickly fill that category of my wardrobe (I wore my JCP suit I used for interviews for a month straight while i was purchasing my current ones). Theyre certainly slim, but in a way that fits my frame (and they don't have the ridiculous 1" lapels).


----------



## Duvel

Why is ShopRunner so fast? It's only Fed Ex.


----------



## adoucett

Duvel said:


> Why is ShopRunner so fast? It's only Fed Ex.


Fedex 2-Day air by default. Sometimes it would even end up being overnight with my BB purchases.


----------



## adoucett

Hello Gentlemen, 

I recently purchased my first pair of AE Park Avenues to add to my professional footwear for my new job. As this is a significant investment for me at this time, I certainly want them to be the correct fit.

The issue I am noticing is the wide V-gap between the lacing. While the shoes themselves are fairly comfortable, I cannot tie them any tighter than this. Are they OK how they are now, or should I seek out an AE store to try to get a different width? These are from the Shoebank. Any advice would be much appreciated.

These are a 8.5D on the 5 last.


----------



## FLMike

Pretty shoes, adoucett, but that V-gap is way too wide. I would definitley recommend trying the E's. Congrats and nice choice for the new job.



adoucett said:


> Hello Gentlemen,
> 
> I recently purchased my first pair of AE Park Avenues to add to my professional footwear for my new job. As this is a significant investment for me at this time, I certainly want them to be the correct fit.
> 
> The issue I am noticing is the wide V-gap between the lacing. While the shoes themselves are fairly comfortable, I cannot tie them any tighter than this. Are they OK how they are now, or should I seek out an AE store to try to get a different width? These are from the Shoebank. Any advice would be much appreciated.
> 
> These are a 8.5D on the 5 last.


----------



## FLMike

Adoucett, as a follow up, I would aim for something closer to this in terms of the lacing gap and overall fit....


----------



## Himself

FLCracka said:


> Pretty shoes, adoucett, but that V-gap is way too wide. I would definitley recommend trying the E's. Congrats and nice choice for the new job.


Seconded, all points. They look tight across the ball of your foot too.

I really like Park Avenues.


----------



## Rondazzle

Any thoughts on a good source for embroidered chinos? O'Connells and Castaway both have a good variety but the price is a little much. 

Sent with a Stamp


----------



## ran23

I'm looking at two suits on ebay. Kenneth Cole, 2 piece, wool, 3 button. and Ralph Lauren chaps 2 piece, wool 2 button. are these lines decent $5-600 suits?? never heard of Kenneth Cole before. thank You.


----------



## Orgetorix

WTF happened to the forum? New skin looks terrible.


----------



## Reuben

Orgetorix said:


> WTF happened to the forum? New skin looks terrible.


Seconded.


----------



## FLMike

Reuben said:


> Seconded.


Thirded. This may just be the final nail in the coffin for me. Adios amigos....be well everyone!


----------



## universitystripe

Is the "traditional" must-iron ocbd at Brooks Brothers listed as a dress shirt and not a casual shirt on their website? A link would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## HerrDavid

Here you go:


----------



## universitystripe

HerrDavid said:


> Here you go:


Much appreciated!


----------



## orange fury

Wanted to get fit opinions on these AE Boardrooms. Basically, I returned the ones I purchased a couple weeks ago because of a fairly size able bubble in the leather (size 10.5). None of the stores in my area had the 10.5 in stock, but they did have an 11, which I thought fit pretty well. After getting them home though, I'm wondering if they might be too big, based primarily on the inch or so of space I have in the toe box. I know this is a difficult question to ask online, but do these look like they fit properly?



my toe is at the edge of the shoehorn:


Side:


Walking:


i know this is ambiguous, but since this is my first pair of nice shoes, I want to be able to wear them for a very long time


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Well, they aren't glaringly too tight. And, based on the lacing gap (about right for AEs) and the fact that the heel isn't moving (much?), they aren't obviously too big. People suffer through wearing shoes that fit them much worse.

But did the 10.5 feel better?


----------



## orange fury

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Well, they aren't glaringly too tight. And, based on the lacing gap (about right for AEs) and the fact that the heel isn't moving (much?), they aren't obviously too big. People suffer through wearing shoes that fit them much worse.
> 
> But did the 10.5 feel better?


Not necessarily better, I think both technically fit within the range of acceptability for me, which was the confusing part. Another issue is that I ordered a pair of Mora 2.0's from shoebank in size 10.5- when I went to the AE store tonight to try on the 10's vs the 11's in that shoe, the 10.5 felt significantly better (the longer toe on the 108 last made the 11's feel exaggeratedly long). Also, the SA's weren't all that helpful- I asked about how it was supposed to fit and the response was "uhh, they both look like they fit".


----------



## Fading Fast

Of, as you said, hard to tell on line. 

But based on your pictures, I think the 11s are a touch long (both based on where your toe ends and, also, the shoe looks like it is bowing out a bit more than it should in the last picture - which can happen when shoes are too big). But this only confirms your comment that 10.5 felt better. Shoe fit should not be a compromise (if a shirt is a touch big or small, life goes on, shoe fit really, really matters). 

I have bought a lot of dress shoes in my life and I have never regretted an expensive pair that was well made and fit well, but I have regretted expensive and inexpensive dress shoes that didn't fit quite right.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

orange fury said:


> Not necessarily better, I think both technically fit within the range of acceptability for me, which was the confusing part. Another issue is that I ordered a pair of Mora 2.0's from shoebank in size 10.5- when I went to the AE store tonight to try on the 10's vs the 11's in that shoe, the 10.5 felt significantly better (the longer toe on the 108 last made the 11's feel exaggeratedly long). Also, the SA's weren't all that helpful- I asked about how it was supposed to fit and the response was "uhh, they both look like they fit".


That is confusing, especially since AE sizing can be tricky. Given that information, I'd be tempted to hold out for the 10.5s, but with my luck I'd end up preferring the 11s.

Your worst case on the 11s is you need a heel pad, tongue pad, or insole. I buy mine at Aldo - since they're incapable of making shoes that fit, they have to make good heel pads and stuff.

EDIT: Fading Fast's last paragraph is 100%.


----------



## WillBarrett

To keep or not to keep:

So I've got two vintage LLB norwegians. One is navy/white and the other is charcoal/red. I live in Alabama. Should I keep both or sell one for the $30 or so that I could fetch on the bay? 

Thoughts?


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

I'd be interested in the red one if the size worked.



WillBarrett said:


> To keep or not to keep:
> 
> So I've got two vintage LLB norwegians. One is navy/white and the other is charcoal/red. I live in Alabama. Should I keep both or sell one for the $30 or so that I could fetch on the bay?
> 
> Thoughts?


----------



## orange fury

Yet another AE question.

received my Mora DM's from Shoebank in the mail today. The associate on the phone when I ordered them told me he didn't see any issues with them, but it appears that the finish didn't completely take on the outside of each shoe (the leather also seems really wrinkled). Is this something I should just expect as normal when ordering from Shoebank, or should I send these back?:


----------



## Z.J.P

Question about creases. How many wears do you usually get out of a pair of khakis washed and pressed at home?


----------



## Shaver

Z.J.P said:


> Question about creases. How many wears do you usually get out of a pair of khakis washed and pressed at home?


I wear them twice only - even if they remain clean the crease will have degraded.


----------



## Z.J.P

Shaver said:


> I wear them twice only - even if they remain clean the crease will have degraded.


Thank you, Shaver.


----------



## sskim3

orange fury said:


> Yet another AE question.
> 
> received my Mora DM's from Shoebank in the mail today. The associate on the phone when I ordered them told me he didn't see any issues with them, but it appears that the finish didn't completely take on the outside of each shoe (the leather also seems really wrinkled). Is this something I should just expect as normal when ordering from Shoebank, or should I send these back?:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, I've been kind of underwhelmed by my experience with AE so far...


Fortunately, I haven't had any bad experiences. Wouldn't shoe trees and normal wear minimize the wrinkling? And I would assume after a few shoe polishes, the color would even out.

If you aren't satisfied with it, just exchange them. I would live with the faults if it was a killer clearance deal though.


----------



## Reuben

orange fury said:


> *Honestly, I've been kind of underwhelmed by my experience with AE so far*...


Is this entirely fair considering you've been buying seconds and that the problem with your first pair was an issue of sizing? I can see how you'd be bothered if they were both purchased as firsts and you'd bought the park avenues on final sale and after a salesman told you what size to wear, but you have to expect that the seconds will have a defect or two and sizing for shoes without trying a variety of lengths and widths on can be a bit of a crapshoot.



Z.J.P said:


> Question about creases. How many wears do you usually get out of a pair of khakis washed and pressed at home?


It usually takes me three to six weeks of wearing and washing my khakis before I get the last remnants of that pesky crease out of them. After that, though, they'll stay delightfully soft and rumpled provided you machine wash and dry them and keep them well away from mothers and girlfriends with ironing boards . . .


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Z.J.P said:


> Question about creases. How many wears do you usually get out of a pair of khakis washed and pressed at home?


I wear them 2 or 3 times without laundering. I iron them lightly between wears, but not if they have any spots or stains as you can damage them. I use magic sizing the first time.

Like Rueben, I enjoy a pair of super soft non-creased chinos, but only outside of work. This is how I treat my work chinos that have fallen on hard times and were let go from my work pant rotation. I have chinos soft enough to sleep in.


----------



## L-feld

Reuben said:


> Is this entirely fair considering you've been buying seconds and that the problem with your first pair was an issue of sizing? I can see how you'd be bothered if they were both purchased as firsts and you'd bought the park avenues on final sale and after a salesman told you what size to wear, but you have to expect that the seconds will have a defect or two and sizing for shoes without trying a variety of lengths and widths on can be a bit of a crapshoot.


I'd say you're right on the money here. I've made lots of scores through the shoe bank, but I stick to lasts and sizes I know work well for me.

I tend to think the best way to approach AE shoes is to go and try on a boat load of stuff at the AE store and pay full freight the first time around. Otherwise, you risk being penny wise, but pound foolish.


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> Is this entirely fair considering you've been buying seconds and that the problem with your first pair was an issue of sizing? I can see how you'd be bothered if they were both purchased as firsts and you'd bought the park avenues on final sale and after a salesman told you what size to wear, but you have to expect that the seconds will have a defect or two and sizing for shoes without trying a variety of lengths and widths on can be a bit of a crapshoot.


Youre right, I was a little too quick on the draw with my criticism on that one- the original post has been edited.


----------



## gamma68

Reuben said:


> It usually takes me three to six weeks of wearing and washing my khakis before I get the last remnants of that pesky crease out of them. After that, though, they'll stay delightfully soft and rumpled provided you machine wash and dry them and keep them well away from mothers and girlfriends with ironing boards . . .


I don't quite understand the desire to remove the crease from khakis. The crease never remains long with wearing and disappears through a wash. And I recall a time when the membership gave me grief for posting an image of my rig with blazer and (gasp) khakis with no crease.

Unless the khakis are meant to only be worn very informally, I was under the impression that a crease is mandatory.


----------



## Duvel

I want that pesky crease to stay right there, and to stay sharp.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I would say that there is no hard and fast rule about creases. It is simply a matter of preference.


----------



## Shaver

^ Indeed so - if a chap prefers to be well dressed then he will sport sharp creases.


----------



## Orgetorix

I buy BB Advantage chinos and the creases worry about themselves. 

#confessionwednesday


----------



## eagle2250

^^ +1

BB's Advantage chinos are a great value in so many ways...cost, comfortable (given the different weights they may be purchased in), ease of use/easy to care for, etc. :thumbs-up:


----------



## mhj

I've noticed that many of the BB OCBD's that I've picked up on eBay are of a thinner fabric than new ones that I've purchased brand new. Is this the way they were made or is it the result of years of laundering?


----------



## Duvel

You're sure they are oxford cloth, not pinpoint, right?



mhj said:


> I've noticed that many of the BB OCBD's that I've picked up on eBay are of a thinner fabric than new ones that I've purchased brand new. Is this the way they were made or is it the result of years of laundering?


----------



## mhj

Positively Oxford cloth.


----------



## Duvel

I'm guessing probably wear and laundering. Any idea how old they are?



mhj said:


> Positively Oxford cloth.


----------



## mhj

No, it's a yellow uni-stripe OCBD that I mentioned in another thread. I have no idea when they stopped producing those.


----------



## Shoe Leather

mhj said:


> I've noticed that many of the BB OCBD's that I've picked up on eBay are of a thinner fabric than new ones that I've purchased brand new. Is this the way they were made or is it the result of years of laundering?


My second-hand impression is that the cloth was a bit thinner and softer before the New Jersey plant closed in the early '90s.


----------



## L-feld

gamma68 said:


> I don't quite understand the desire to remove the crease from khakis. The crease never remains long with wearing and disappears through a wash. And I recall a time when the membership gave me grief for posting an image of my rig with blazer and (gasp) khakis with no crease.
> 
> Unless the khakis are meant to only be worn very informally, I was under the impression that a crease is mandatory.


I think you should know by now that Reuben plays by his own set of rules.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ensiferous

I have creased chinos for when a sharper appearance is preferable, and uncreased chinos for when being more laid-back is desired.

Generally, I'm not too concerned about it; chinos wouldn't be my choice if razor sharp creases were critical, which is where the odd dress trouser is more appropriate for me anyway.


----------



## ran23

I am looking at a Joseph Abboud Couture Sport Coat on line. I can't find anything like that at Men's Whse. Is this an old model? 3 button, nice.


----------



## ran23

Perhaps I should ask, 'what is Joseph Abbond Couture?' still can't find any info on it.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I'm in New Jersey, about to drive into Manhattan for the first time in 10 years. I'd like to shop at Brooks Bros. Is the 346 Madison Ave. store. Is that the right thing to do? I'm not looking for MTM, just some casual items, but I'd prefer to deal with knowledgeable SAs. Is any store a must-to-avoid? PM me if the latter.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

SlideGuitarist said:


> I'm in New Jersey, about to drive into Manhattan for the first time in 10 years. I'd like to shop at Brooks Bros. Is the 346 Madison Ave. store. Is that the right thing to do? I'm not looking for MTM, just some casual items, but I'd prefer to deal with knowledgeable SAs. Is any store a must-to-avoid? PM me if the latter.


Madison is the coolest BB, especially since you can check out Paul Stuart, Alden, and a very small AE store within a few blocks - and you can stand in the Grand Central lobby for a minute, if you're looking for a touristy thing to do.

I like the Flatiron shop but I'm hip and edgy or whatever. Might do for casual stuff, but all on the slim side (I like the nearby Club Monaco, too, with the same caveat). And there's a convenient Shake Shack.

The other BB stores in Manhattan aren't anything special. Well-run, and well-stocked, but smallish.


----------



## Z.J.P

I am late at catching the many comments about khaki creases. I am referring to my khakis for work. I'm just getting an consensus to see if I am getting enough out of each wash and press. I wear them to the office when I won't be seeing clients. Always with coat and tie. 

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Madison is the coolest BB, especially since you can check out Paul Stuart, Alden, and a very small AE store within a few blocks - and you can stand in the Grand Central lobby for a minute, if you're looking for a touristy thing to do.
> 
> I like the Flatiron shop but I'm hip and edgy or whatever. Might do for casual stuff, but all on the slim side (I like the nearby Club Monaco, too, with the same caveat). And there's a convenient Shake Shack.
> 
> The other BB stores in Manhattan aren't anything special. Well-run, and well-stocked, but smallish.


Well, you're hip and edgy compared to me! As it happens, my wife booked us into the Roosevelt, virtually across the street from BB and Paul Stuart, so I will take my boys on a little trad pilgrimage. Unfortunately, my wife and I share a credit card, so I won't be buying Aldens.


----------



## jimw

Thrift Stores in Concord/Manchester, NH?

I will be spending a couple of nights on business in this area next week - any recommendations of thrift stores to while away the early evening hours? 

(PS - I'm sure my wife would be happy that I'm not seeking more sordid diversions; in fact, I guess she might find this sorta sad, even!!)

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## ran23

While searching for Robert Talbott ties, I saw a dress shirt/french cuffs, by him. The only tag inside is a 'Robert Talboot, Best of Class' , no size or material, feels like pinpoint cotton. collar points are 3". strange find


----------



## WillBarrett

Quick question - I've got a wedding to go to Saturday and I'm in need of some help. No time to get to the cleaners and I've got a pair of Brooks twirls that need pressing. They're dry-clean only but 100% cotton. Any advice on handling these at home?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Duvel

Just pressing? Not cleaning, right? Use an iron?



WillBarrett said:


> Quick question - I've got a wedding to go to Saturday and I'm in need of some help. No time to get to the cleaners and I've got a pair of Brooks twirls that need pressing. They're dry-clean only but 100% cotton. Any advice on handling these at home?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rsgordon

Don't know if still relevant but avoid the BB at 51st and 6th. Notoriously the worst service known to Brooks shoppers and manage to stay in business by being a block away when I splash coffee on myself.



SlideGuitarist said:


> I'm in New Jersey, about to drive into Manhattan for the first time in 10 years. I'd like to shop at Brooks Bros. Is the 346 Madison Ave. store. Is that the right thing to do? I'm not looking for MTM, just some casual items, but I'd prefer to deal with knowledgeable SAs. Is any store a must-to-avoid? PM me if the latter.


----------



## Howard

I bought a pair of cargo shorts but I don't know what the belt is used for, is that like a regular shorts dress belt?


----------



## inq89

This may be a silly question, but is there any part of the inner tag of a BB 1818 Fitzgerald 2 Button Navy Plain Suit that shows what Color it is? I bought a used one off eBay and have always had trouble distinguishing between whether its Black or Navy.... certainly I could be color blind, but I swear its the darkest Navy I've seen!

They dont even have it as "Midnight Navy" on the site. They should.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

inq89 said:


> This may be a silly question, but is there any part of the inner tag of a BB 1818 Fitzgerald 2 Button Navy Plain Suit that shows what Color it is? I bought a used one off eBay and have always had trouble distinguishing between whether its Black or Navy.... certainly I could be color blind, but I swear its the darkest Navy I've seen!
> 
> They dont even have it as "Midnight Navy" on the site. They should.


Snap a picture of the tag, and I might be able to tell. BB cuts some suits in a very dark navy. Best way to tell is to find clothing you know is black (you may have to borrow this), and to hold it next to the suit in direct sunlight.


----------



## Orgetorix

I'd say it's probably navy; Brooks doesn't sell a lot of black suits. They do sell some, but not many.

If there's a 42 or 042 somewhere on the tag, it's navy. If there's a 1 or 01 by itself, it may be black. Those are the color codes that go on the retail paper tags; I'm not sure if they make it to the inside tags as well or not.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Orgetorix said:


> I'd say it's probably navy; Brooks doesn't sell a lot of black suits. They do sell some, but not many.
> 
> If there's a 42 or 042 somewhere on the tag, it's navy. If there's a 1 or 01 by itself, it may be black. Those are the color codes that go on the retail paper tags; I'm not sure if they make it to the inside tags as well or not.


I was trying to remember that code system. Some of them do have that on a internal label, but not always.


----------



## PaultheSwede

I just picked up a Burberrys trench for my wife at a thrift store. It has exactly the same label as in this add:. To me it doesn't look like a fake, but if anyone disagree please let me know.

Now to the actual question, my trench is stiffer and it almost feels like there is some form of coating. Can it be that this trench has been washed in a washing machine or is this difference expected?


----------



## Orgetorix

The LHS is a very personal, YMMV fit situation. I take my usual size (11.5D) in that shoe, though I also found 11 E to fit almost the same. 11 D would have certainly been too small.

I'm a 11D in Alden's Barrie and Truebalance lasts; the Van is not nearly as big as those.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

That coat is authentic. That is an older tag, so I'm sure it's been cleaned a few times. I have several Burberry macs and after a while they get nice and soft.



PaultheSwede said:


> I just picked up a Burberrys trench for my wife at a thrift store. It has exactly the same label as in this add:. To me it doesn't look like a fake, but if anyone disagree please let me know.
> 
> Now to the actual question, my trench is stiffer and it almost feels like there is some form of coating. Can it be that this trench has been washed in a washing machine or is this difference expected?


----------



## ran23

I bought a pair of Bostonion Impressions Cap Toes. Can't find a marking anywhere of size os anything else, just the make and model. ???


----------



## Jlancia

Is this a spread or point collar?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Point.


----------



## PaultheSwede

YoungSoulRebel said:


> That coat is authentic. That is an older tag, so I'm sure it's been cleaned a few times. I have several Burberry macs and after a while they get nice and soft.


A bit late, but thanks for the answer


----------



## jimw

Travel Blazer

I know this has been brought up time and again, which is why I'm posting here, rather than to a unique thread.

Looking for a new travel blazer - wool/poly blend (it is for travel, after all - in sales, I need to have something as no-fuss as possible). I wouldn't mind a half-lining or hopsack weave for summer use, but not absolutely necessary.

I also don't care if its darted, however I DO want the shoulders to be as natural as possible.

Considering some of the house lines or Hardwick models from Hunter & Coggins, but will defer to comments based on experience.

Any solid recommendations?

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## Duvel

Anything half-lined and hopsack is good, I'd say. I'd opt for undarted, if possible; for me the sack offers more room to move, and you want to be comfortable, especially in those small plane seats. Hunter & Coggins is a great little men's store. I often dropped in there when I lived in Asheville. But who you buy it from is really your choice. Brooks, maybe?


----------



## FLMike

^I've never seen anyone wear their blazer/coat while in-flight. I certainly wouldn't. 

Regarding the question, there are lots of BB wool/poly blend sack or darted blazers that seem to pop up here and on eBay with pretty good regularity.


----------



## jimw

FLCracka said:


> ^I've never seen anyone wear their blazer/coat while in-flight. I certainly wouldn't.
> 
> Regarding the question, there are lots of BB wool/poly blend sack or darted blazers that seem to pop up here and on eBay with pretty good regularity.


As a point of principle, I tend to pack economically, so my blazer/SC is typically worn or in overhead storage while I'm in transit. I'd like to have the softness of Super100s, but I've made that mistake before, and ended up looking wrinkled.

My go-to travel blazer at present is a David Taylor (Sears?) - thrift store find, and darted but not overly tailored - it has the advantage of being bomb-proof, has 3 patch pockets and has very light shoulder padding - Seems an odd mix of attributes, but it fits well. Just looking to up my game a bit.

Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## Duvel

I might start lightly starching my collars, shirt cuffs, and plackets. Not the whole shirt, but just those parts. I'm interested in seeing if it helps in the crispness department. I might also try just a little in my chinos and twills, for a little extra cripsness in the crease and cuffs. 

Does anyone else do this?


----------



## Duvel

I wear mine on flights, depending on conditions. Middle of the summer, not so much,as the cabin, as we all know, tends to get warm. Other times of year, I find I often need the layer, as the cabin a/c can seem a little much.

I tend to wear my Huntington, as it's the cheaper of the few I own, and so I don't care if it gets abused a little.

However, a nice alternative to the blazer, I've found, is my Baracuta. It's comfortable, has good pockets for ID, tickets, etc., is easy to slip out of if I need to. I'll opt for this if my trip won't require a blazer.



jimw said:


> As a point of principle, I tend to pack economically, so my blazer/SC is typically worn or in overhead storage while I'm in transit. I'd like to have the softness of Super100s, but I've made that mistake before, and ended up looking wrinkled.
> 
> My go-to travel blazer at present is a David Taylor (Sears?) - thrift store find, and darted but not overly tailored - it has the advantage of being bomb-proof, has 3 patch pockets and has very light shoulder padding - Seems an odd mix of attributes, but it fits well. Just looking to up my game a bit.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I generally fly in a hopsack blazer and jeans. I drop my stuff in the pockets in the security line, and then pull it all out while I'm putting my shoes on. I use a slightly ratty but very nice old Dunhill (thrifted, don't look at me like that). It's usually folded and put in an overhead, or hung from the back of the seat for much of the flight, unless I get cold.

IMHO, the perfect travel rig is some kind of long-sleeve cotton knit shirt (a jersey polo or a thin turtleneck would be great), five-pocket pants, the aforementioned blazer, and desert boots. An OCBD would be fine for a shorter flight.

I don't think I'd fly in a worsted blazer in a suiting cloth – I feel like it would wrinkle too much. Of course, I also hate those in general.


----------



## MythReindeer

O boy, a wedding attire question!

The wedding: In Michigan, outdoors, 3 PM, next weekend.

I know that the best man is wearing a "blue suit" (I assume he meant navy blue). I can wear a navy blue suit, or a navy blue blazer with either khaki linen or charcoal wool trousers. Which of those, or is it just a matter of preference? Also, I am bald, so will a white Panama hat be appropriate with my attire?


----------



## Duvel

You're just a guest, right, not in the party? If that's the case, you can wear pretty much whatever you want to wear.



MythReindeer said:


> O boy, a wedding attire question!
> 
> The wedding: In Michigan, outdoors, 3 PM, next weekend.
> 
> I know that the best man is wearing a "blue suit" (I assume he meant navy blue). I can wear a navy blue suit, or a navy blue blazer with either khaki linen or charcoal wool trousers. Which of those, or is it just a matter of preference? Also, I am bald, so will a white Panama hat be appropriate with my attire?


----------



## Duvel

So what do you think?



Duvel said:


> I might start lightly starching my collars, shirt cuffs, and plackets. Not the whole shirt, but just those parts. I'm interested in seeing if it helps in the crispness department. I might also try just a little in my chinos and twills, for a little extra cripsness in the crease and cuffs.
> 
> Does anyone else do this?


----------



## gamma68

jimw said:


> Travel Blazer
> 
> I know this has been brought up time and again, which is why I'm posting here, rather than to a unique thread.
> 
> Looking for a new travel blazer - wool/poly blend (it is for travel, after all - in sales, I need to have something as no-fuss as possible). I wouldn't mind a half-lining or hopsack weave for summer use, but not absolutely necessary.
> 
> I also don't care if its darted, however I DO want the shoulders to be as natural as possible.
> 
> Considering some of the house lines or Hardwick models from Hunter & Coggins, but will defer to comments based on experience.
> 
> Any solid recommendations?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim


This may not be of great help, but I recently thrifted a Graham & Gunn 2-button sack blazer for $6 that I plan on taking with me to Newport RI next week. It's a poly/wool blend with natural shoulders, so it should work out well. And 2-button sacks are kind of rare, so that's a bonus.

I don't think I'll wear it on the flight but I'm not too worried about packing it in a suitcase.

For NEW travel blazers, you might consider Anderson-Little or Orvis.


----------



## jimw

Opinion needed: Brooks 3/2 sack blazer

I'm looking at buying this BB blazer, but need a gut check: for $45 shipped, this looks like an obvious buy, but the seller has pointed out some 'discolouration', shoulder and cuff ). I asked the seller if these seem like treatable stains or actual damage (he felt it could be dry-cleaned). For anyone caring to have a look at the link, what is the general consensus? They almost look like scuffs (or possibly dog-slobber, which I'm all too familiar with!).

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## orange fury

Question about AE lasts. I recently purchased the McClain in walnut and the Nathan in burgundy:



Both are on the 8 last, and both of these are 10.5D, but you can see the obvious lacing difference. I have some Mora 2.0's in 10.5D that fit great (also on the 8 last). Should I increase the width on the McClain, size down on the Nathan, or stay with the ones I have?


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> Question about AE lasts. I recently purchased the McClain in walnut and the Nathan in burgundy:
> 
> Both are on the 8 last, and both of these are 10.5D, but you can see the obvious lacing difference. I have some Mora 2.0's in 10.5D that fit great (also on the 8 last). Should I increase the width on the McClain, size down on the Nathan, or stay with the ones I have?


Stay with what you have, as long as the fit is right. They look great. Terrific choices. I love their oxblood color.....I have it in the Strand. Congrats!

What is your suit game like these days?


----------



## Fading Fast

OF, If the shoes fit fine, then I wouldn't play around with the size just to marginally adjust the shoe lace opening. The openings both look good to me, but again, if they fit comfortably, don't mess around with that for a small aesthetic tweak - a good fit in shoes is worth its weight in gold.

jimw, I think the approach you have to take is am I willing to gamble (I get $65 with shipping - not $45, but maybe he'll accept $45 all in) $45 plus $15 or so to clean the sport coat for a binary result - either the marks come out and you won big, or the sport coat is worthless and you toss it as, with those marks as they are, it isn't nice enough to wear. If you decide to gamble - the best of luck.


----------



## gamma68

jimw said:


> Opinion needed: Brooks 3/2 sack blazer
> 
> I'm looking at buying this BB blazer, but need a gut check: for $45 shipped, this looks like an obvious buy, but the seller has pointed out some 'discolouration', shoulder and cuff ). I asked the seller if these seem like treatable stains or actual damage (he felt it could be dry-cleaned). For anyone caring to have a look at the link, what is the general consensus? They almost look like scuffs (or possibly dog-slobber, which I'm all too familiar with!).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim


My stance on picking up a used item is "life is too short for stains." Blazers are a common enough item that it might be more worthwhile to wait for another one to come along.


----------



## orange fury

FLCracka said:


> Stay with what you have, as long as the fit is right. They look great. Terrific choices. I love their oxblood color.....I have it in the Strand. Congrats!
> 
> What is your suit game like these days?


Thanks- I had considered getting a second pair of Boardrooms in oxblood, but figured I'd rather diversify styles a bit. I'm going to drop by a JAB to try out a 10D in the Nathan today because it feels slightly long, but it may just be that im getting used to a longer last.

Nothing new in terms of suits, still mostly J Crew (slimmer than the preference here, but not trendy, and they fit me comfortably). After your suggestion a while back I did try some 346 suits at an outlet near me, but the jackets fit me oddly- I had to size down from a 38 to a 36 to get shoulders that fit (wouldve needed the sleeves let out several inches), and the shoulders were incredibly padded. I plan to eventually replace each suit one at a time with nicer stuff, but recently the focus has been building a decent shoe rotation (I have 4 pairs of AEs now, so I can probably back off on that a bit lol).

edit: tried on the Nathan in 10D today, definitely sticking with 10.5D


----------



## Dmontez

Source for solid navy seersucker suit?

JAB has a tailored fit pinstripe Ihttps://www.josbank.com/2-button-seersucker-tailored-fit-suit-3AHP

I dont like they way they describe their tailored fit. I may go to my local JAB this afternoon to try on, but id prefer a classic fit.


----------



## inq89

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Snap a picture of the tag, and I might be able to tell. BB cuts some suits in a very dark navy. Best way to tell is to find clothing you know is black (you may have to borrow this), and to hold it next to the suit in direct sunlight.


Sorry for replying late:











Orgetorix said:


> I'd say it's probably navy; Brooks doesn't sell a lot of black suits. They do sell some, but not many.
> 
> If there's a 42 or 042 somewhere on the tag, it's navy. If there's a 1 or 01 by itself, it may be black. Those are the color codes that go on the retail paper tags; I'm not sure if they make it to the inside tags as well or not.


Sound reasoning and the eBay seller did list it as a Navy, but Im just making sure. Thanks for that info. ^^Above is the only inner label other than the standard blue BB company info, and I do see a "001" in the _MO/Seq line_ (the 42R obviously is my chest size). Could that refer to it being black?


----------



## sskim3

Dmontez said:


> Source for solid navy seersucker suit?
> 
> JAB has a tailored fit pinstripe Ihttps://www.josbank.com/2-button-seersucker-tailored-fit-suit-3AHP
> 
> I dont like they way they describe their tailored fit. I may go to my local JAB this afternoon to try on, but id prefer a classic fit.


I have the tailored and it definitely doesnt feel as slim as other companies. It was a comfortable fit for me but again everybody has a different preference.

I do wish it was half lined though instead of fully lined.


----------



## jimw

Is this a 3/2 darted suit jacket?



Looking at this Corbin - looks as though its cut with a 3/2 roll, but is darted - is it probably a suit separate? Kinda looks that way to me.....

I wonder how this would look kitted out with brass or bone buttons to give it more of a sportscoat look?


----------



## Califax

Why are wing-tip collars detachable? Was it for easy replacement? Can you change the size of the collar within reason? Thanks!


----------



## Orgetorix

Califax said:


> Why are wing-tip collars detachable? Was it for easy replacement? Can you change the size of the collar within reason? Thanks!


Only a few formal shirts have detachable wing collars anymore, and they're hard to find. Most tuxedo shirts you'll see in stores these days have attached collars.

When it was more common, wing collars were detachable for the same reason all men's shirt collars were detachable: ease of laundering and the ability to starch them stiff. That stiff look eventually went out of fashion in favor of softer, attached collars, but the stiff, detachable wing collar lived on (sort of) mainly in use with white tie.

Typically you can use a collar that measures the same size as the shirt's neckband or half an inch larger, but that's the limit of your ability to change sizes. A different collar size would require a different shirt.


----------



## Califax

Orgetorix said:


> Only a few formal shirts have detachable wing collars anymore, and they're hard to find. Most tuxedo shirts you'll see in stores these days have attached collars.
> 
> When it was more common, wing collars were detachable for the same reason all men's shirt collars were detachable: ease of laundering and the ability to starch them stiff. That stiff look eventually went out of fashion in favor of softer, attached collars, but the stiff, detachable wing collar lived on (sort of) mainly in use with white tie.
> 
> Typically you can use a collar that measures the same size as the shirt's neckband or half an inch larger, but that's the limit of your ability to change sizes. A different collar size would require a different shirt.


Thanks for all of that!

I'm looking at BB's Golden Fleece® French Cuff Tuxedo Shirt With Detachable Collar.

One more question - I hope this doesn't sound stupid but how do I wash this sort of collar?

LOL? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Orgetorix

Califax said:


> Thanks for all of that!
> 
> I'm looking at BB's Golden Fleece® French Cuff Tuxedo Shirt With Detachable Collar.
> 
> One more question - I hope this doesn't sound stupid but how do I wash this sort of collar?
> 
> LOL? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


You probably don't want to try. It takes specialized expertise and equipment to do it right. There are internet tutorials for doing it yourself, but your best bet is probably to send it to one of the few laundries that can still do it. Barker in the UK does it; Rave Fabricare in Arizona _might_. There's also a place called Sam Sing Laundry near Chicago that did it for me several years ago; you'd have to call them and find out if they still do.


----------



## Dmontez

sskim3 said:


> I have the tailored and it definitely doesnt feel as slim as other companies. It was a comfortable fit for me but again everybody has a different preference.
> 
> I do wish it was half lined though instead of fully lined.


Yes, the fully lined jacket doesn't make much sense for seersucker, but as I understand it, it is cheaper for a company to line a jacket than to finish it properly without the lining. Essentially if you open up the lining on a jacket the seams may be unsightly.



Califax said:


> Thanks for all of that!
> 
> I'm looking at BB's Golden Fleece® French Cuff Tuxedo Shirt With Detachable Collar.
> 
> One more question - I hope this doesn't sound stupid but how do I wash this sort of collar?
> 
> LOL? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I own that exact shirt, and I love it! I have not had the chance to wear it yet, but I have tried it on with my dinner rig, and it is lovely. The only problem is that I bought it on ebay for CHEAP, but it was missing the detachable collar. I will have to purchase one to go with it. I am little worried about purchasing one and the fabrics being close but clashing with each other.


----------



## Califax

Dmontez said:


> Yes, the fully lined jacket doesn't make much sense for seersucker, but as I understand it, it is cheaper for a company to line a jacket than to finish it properly without the lining. Essentially if you open up the lining on a jacket the seams may be unsightly.
> 
> I own that exact shirt, and I love it! I have not had the chance to wear it yet, but I have tried it on with my dinner rig, and it is lovely. The only problem is that I bought it on ebay for CHEAP, but it was missing the detachable collar. I will have to purchase one to go with it. I am little worried about purchasing one and the fabrics being close but clashing with each other.


Yeah i know - in fact i may purchase an extra collar or two for that very reason.

Someone in boston/nyc must know how to do these.


----------



## Califax

Just a few minutes ago a BB person who knows their stuff told me: "Collars are hand wash only - they will not shrink and we offer replacement collars online. The replacement collar item # is 112E."


----------



## Dmontez

Just tried, and nothing pops up with that item#


----------



## Califax

Dmontez said:


> Just tried, and nothing pops up with that item#


Yeah, I know, me too. I'll try to get the correct one and post it up.


----------



## Orgetorix

Check out Luke Eyres, Ede & Ravenscroft, and/or Darcy Clothing, all based in the UK. They sell the same short wing collar that Brooks includes with the BBGF white-tie shirt. But, even better, they sell a taller (2 1/4" tall) collar that looks much nicer than the short one.

Here's a shot of me in one of the taller collars:


----------



## Califax

Orgetorix said:


> Here's a shot of me in one of the taller collars:


Wow, you look absolutely stunning.

So, with this detachable wing collar BB shirt - can I switch out the collar for other collars in accordance with my needs - say, semi-formal evening to formal evening?

So, for example, what about an English Spread detachable? Where would I purchase such a thing, and of good quality?

Thanks again. 

Maybe one of these would have such a thing? "Check out Luke Eyres, Ede & Ravenscroft, and/or Darcy Clothing"

Also, how do I know the fabric "whiteness" would match?


----------



## Orgetorix

Yeah, I'd check those places I mentioned out. Those are pretty much the options for new (non-vintage) detachable collars.

You can interchange the collars as you choose, I suppose; you could put a turndown collar on for use with a tuxedo. Frankly, though, I wouldn't bother. I'd just have a separate shirt with a regular, attached soft collar for semi-formal wear.


----------



## sskim3

Need your opinion if this is acceptable.

Earlier this year, I bought a tuxedo shirt that similar to the link below:
https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/mai...2&Ntt=burberry+tuxedo+shirt&N=0&bmUID=kYF1Yef

Spread collar
Hidden placket
French cuff
Plain front, no bib

It was originally worn with a single button tux.

Next week, I am going to a wedding and I am part of the wedding party. We are wearing a slim black suit and a black necktie. Since the necktie will hide the hidden placket, is this shirt appropriate? I rarely wear french cuff shirts so I really would like to avoid buying another one.

Thoughts and opinions?


----------



## jimw

Expert opinions needed

Does this blazer appear to be a 3/2 sack? What is Brooks-Blend? From the photo, the fastened top button looks unnatural to the lapels, and I don't see any darting.



What do you think?


----------



## FLMike

^It's a 3/2 sack in a wool/polyester blend. Probably 60/40.


----------



## FLMike

sskim3 said:


> Need your opinion if this is acceptable.
> 
> Earlier this year, I bought a tuxedo shirt that similar to the link below:
> https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/mai...2&Ntt=burberry+tuxedo+shirt&N=0&bmUID=kYF1Yef
> 
> Spread collar
> Hidden placket
> French cuff
> Plain front, no bib
> 
> It was originally worn with a single button tux.
> 
> Next week, I am going to a wedding and I am part of the wedding party. We are wearing a slim black suit and a black necktie. Since the necktie will hide the hidden placket, is this shirt appropriate? I rarely wear french cuff shirts so I really would like to avoid buying another one.
> 
> Thoughts and opinions?


I wouldn't do it. Why do you have to wear a FC shirt?


----------



## sskim3

FLCracka said:


> I wouldn't do it. Why do you have to wear a FC shirt?


Grooms request. He wanted slim black suit. And White French cuff shirt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Duvel

sskim, are you part of the wedding party or a guest? And is the "request" merely a request or a requirement?

Unless you're in the party, I would think you could get away with not having to wear a FC shirt (and I would). Unless they're checking everyone who comes through the door and turning away non-FC shirt wearers, I wouldn't give the request too much thought.



sskim3 said:


> Grooms request. He wanted slim black suit. And White French cuff shirt.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sskim3

Duvel said:


> sskim, are you part of the wedding party or a guest? And is the "request" merely a request or a requirement?
> 
> Unless you're in the party, I would think you could get away with not having to wear a FC shirt (and I would). Unless they're checking everyone who comes through the door and turning away non-FC shirt wearers, I wouldn't give the request too much thought.


Sorry should have clarified. I am part of the grooms party. He is getting us personalized cuff links to wear.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Orgetorix

sskim3 said:


> Need your opinion if this is acceptable.
> 
> Earlier this year, I bought a tuxedo shirt that similar to the link below:
> https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/mai...2&Ntt=burberry+tuxedo+shirt&N=0&bmUID=kYF1Yef
> 
> Spread collar
> Hidden placket
> French cuff
> Plain front, no bib
> 
> It was originally worn with a single button tux.
> 
> Next week, I am going to a wedding and I am part of the wedding party. We are wearing a slim black suit and a black necktie. Since the necktie will hide the hidden placket, is this shirt appropriate? I rarely wear french cuff shirts so I really would like to avoid buying another one.
> 
> Thoughts and opinions?


I don't see a huge problem with it. I'd do it rather than buying a new shirt if I were in your shoes.


----------



## Duvel

My oversight. I was reading too fast, apparently--I see that there now. I think you'd be okay with your tie.



sskim3 said:


> Sorry should have clarified. I am part of the grooms party. He is getting us personalized cuff links to wear.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sskim3

Orgetorix said:


> I don't see a huge problem with it. I'd do it rather than buying a new shirt if I were in your shoes.





Duvel said:


> My oversight. I was reading too fast, apparently--I see that there now. I think you'd be okay with your tie.


Thanks guys! I thought it would be fine but wanted to double check that I wouldnt be doing anything too our of the ordinary.

On a sad note, the grooms party has to wear Zara suits. Very slim, and I don't think it's flattering.. Oh well....


----------



## Duvel

sskim3 said:


> Thanks guys! I thought it would be fine but wanted to double check that I wouldnt be doing anything too our of the ordinary.
> 
> On a sad note, the grooms party has to wear Zara suits. Very slim, and I don't think it's flattering.. Oh well....


Ugh.

Can you call in sick?


----------



## sskim3

Duvel said:


> Ugh.
> 
> Can you call in sick?


Ha! Tickets to Cali already booked.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Califax

How do you guys keep the bib from folding outwards when you sit down? LOL?


----------



## Califax

sskim3 said:


> Ha! Tickets to Cali already booked.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I should think that would lend plausibility to your "I'm sick" excuse - "rats, I'm wasting a plane ticket...."


----------



## Orgetorix

Califax said:


> How do you guys keep the bib from folding outwards when you sit down? LOL?


Your shirt should have a button tab at the bottom of the bib. Attach it to the button on your trousers, and it should help.


----------



## August West

ISO a charcoal grey flannel, natural shouldered suit (new). Sack cut is not mandatory. Brooks nor O'C's have anything that fits the bill . Any suggestions are appreciated.


----------



## FiscalDean

August West said:


> ISO a charcoal grey flannel, natural shouldered suit (new). Sack cut is not mandatory. Brooks nor O'C's have anything that fits the bill . Any suggestions are appreciated.


It is probably a little early for most retailers to stock a winter suit. You may want to consider MTM. I've used English American Tailors for years. You can e-mail them to nfind the dealer nearest you.

https://englishamericanco.com/contact.asp


----------



## bignilk

Is there a must iron PPBD equivalent to the 132q?


----------



## FLMike

bignilk said:


> Is there a must iron PPBD equivalent to the 132q?


The 469Q. It's my daily suit shirt.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

FLCracka said:


> The 469Q. It's my daily suit shirt.


I should write this # on my wall with a Sharpie. Type "pinpoint" into the search window on the BB site: this shirt will not appear. Thanks, FL; this is now my new favorite OTR shirt.


----------



## bignilk

FLCracka said:


> The 469Q. It's my daily suit shirt.


Thanks FL!


----------



## fshguy

FLCracka said:


> The 469Q. It's my daily suit shirt.


Is there any need to adjust sizing based upon color as with the 132Q?


----------



## FLMike

fshguy said:


> Is there any need to adjust sizing based upon color as with the 132Q?


Not that I've noticed.


----------



## August West

FiscalDean said:


> It is probably a little early for most retailers to stock a winter suit. You may want to consider MTM. I've used English American Tailors for years. You can e-mail them to nfind the dealer nearest you.
> 
> https://englishamericanco.com/contact.asp


Thanks. I've never gone the MTM route, but may consider doing so.


----------



## FiscalDean

August West said:


> Thanks. I've never gone the MTM route, but may consider doing so.


The MTM option has worked well for me over the years. When I decide to purchase a new suit, I generally have very specific fabrics in mind that can be difficult to find with the style details I expect.


----------



## Califax

If a pique bib on a tuxedo shirt isn't formal stiff, but is rather a semi-formal shirt with a semi-stiff bib, do we need to use studs? 

Or can we just rely on the high quality buttons (on the ribbon beneath the placket) provided if we prefer to dress it down a bit?


----------



## Orgetorix

You should wear studs. Or a shirt with a fly front where the buttons are hidden. Buttons - even nice ones - aren't good enough for wear with a tuxedo.


----------



## lediable007

May I ask a question? I've been looking on Google and frustratingly I've been unable to find (affordable) wide, square-bottomed knitted ties. Widest I've found is 2.75 inch, and I'm looking for 3-3.5. Would any of you gents be able to recommend a place?


----------



## Duvel

Good question. My Brooks knits are 2.5 inches, I believe. I wouldn't mind having some with more heft myself. This article suggests J. Press and Paul Stuart: https://sartoriallyinclined.blogspot.com/2010/07/fatten-up.html (I just googled "Is there a wide knit tie?" to get this and other responses.)

I might add that I generally try to match my tie width with my lapel width, and that's usually in the wider neighborhood (3 to 3.5 inches) but I don't get too obsessive about it. A 2.5-inch will often look just fine with a wider lapel.



lediable007 said:


> May I ask a question? I've been looking on Google and frustratingly I've been unable to find (affordable) wide, square-bottomed knitted ties. Widest I've found is 2.75 inch, and I'm looking for 3-3.5. Would any of you gents be able to recommend a place?


----------



## jimw

Travelsmith - is this a 3/2 roll?



I've heard mixed things about this retailer, but I do sorta like this SC. I wouldn't think its a 3/2 button roll, but it looks odd when buttoned to the top. Any thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## Califax

Do you guys think that, when dressing semi-formally, the bow tie must match the facing (in this case grosgrain), or can one safely opt for something a wee bit different: say, a textured/matte silk (see attached - in reality it's blacker/darker), rather than grosgrain ribbed?? 

Also, if the lapels are peak lapels, I'm thinking I should stay away from my normal diamond point bow tie shape? My sense is that it would pick up on the peak points too much.


----------



## Califax

Orgetorix said:


> You should wear studs. Or a shirt with a fly front where the buttons are hidden. Buttons - even nice ones - aren't good enough for wear with a tuxedo.


Thanks - and that's true even with a pique bib meant for semi-formal wear? I keep seeing peeps here on this board (in old threads) saying that MOP buttons are fine?


----------



## CMDC

Maybe. It does appear to be darted. Not sure how important that is.



jimw said:


> Travelsmith - is this a 3/2 roll?
> 
> I've heard mixed things about this retailer, but I do sorta like this SC. I wouldn't think its a 3/2 button roll, but it looks odd when buttoned to the top. Any thoughts? Thanks.


----------



## lediable007

I'm a big guy with wide set shoulders, so I tend to wear my lapels at 4"-4.5". A 2.5" knit looks absolutely tiny. I came across that same article and found that J Press is 2.75, and Paul Stuart too. I've just found Chipp Neckwear grenadines, and knitted point ties from The Knottery. I think I'll go with those and give up the search.

Thanks for your help, Duvel.


Duvel said:


> Good question. My Brooks knits are 2.5 inches, I believe. I wouldn't mind having some with more heft myself. This article suggests J. Press and Paul Stuart: https://sartoriallyinclined.blogspot.com/2010/07/fatten-up.html (I just googled "Is there a wide knit tie?" to get this and other responses.)
> 
> I might add that I generally try to match my tie width with my lapel width, and that's usually in the wider neighborhood (3 to 3.5 inches) but I don't get too obsessive about it. A 2.5-inch will often look just fine with a wider lapel.


----------



## Orgetorix

Califax said:


> Do you guys think that, when dressing semi-formally, the bow tie must match the facing (in this case grosgrain), or can one safely opt for something a wee bit different: say, a textured/matte silk (see attached - in reality it's blacker/darker), rather than grosgrain ribbed??
> 
> Also, if the lapels are peak lapels, I'm thinking I should stay away from my normal diamond point bow tie shape? My sense is that it would pick up on the peak points too much.


You're overthinking it. Nobody will notice or care, on either point. Satin and grosgrain together might not be the ideal combo, but literally anything else is fine.

My lapels are grosgrain, and my bow is also a ribbed silk, but a much finer and somewhat shinier faille than the lapel facings.



Califax said:


> Thanks - and that's true even with a pique bib meant for semi-formal wear? I keep seeing peeps here on this board (in old threads) saying that MOP buttons are fine?


I think so, personally, but that's an opinion. You have to keep in mind all of this stuff is on a continuum and there haven't been hard and fast rules since white tie gave way to black tie.


----------



## peterlista

Quick question about fit...

I wear a dress shirt with either a 36" or 37" length. In reality, a 36.5" is probably best.

Is it better to have a slightly too long shirt sleeve or a slightly too short one? Is it better to alter the length of my jacket sleeves to the shorter or longer shirt sleeve (i.e., showing a smaller or larger amount of cuff)?


----------



## Fading Fast

peterlista said:


> Quick question about fit...
> 
> I wear a dress shirt with either a 36" or 37" length. In reality, a 36.5" is probably best.
> 
> Is it better to have a slightly too long shirt sleeve or a slightly too short one? Is it better to alter the length of my jacket sleeves to the shorter or longer shirt sleeve (i.e., showing a smaller or larger amount of cuff)?


I always lean to slightly longer than slightly shorter for shirt sleeves as (1) I can't stand the feel when my shirt sleeve is too short and (2) I think it aesthetically looks worse for the shirt sleeve to be too short than too long. You imply the reason for my second point with your second question - if your shirt sleeve is too short, either your jacket sleeve will cover it (not a great look) or you have to make your jacket sleeve too short (not a great look).

I'm curious as to others' opinions about your second question. I don't like the idea of incorrectly altering the jacket sleeve - i.e., making it too long - to "correct" for a too long shirt sleeve (seem too tail-wagging-the-dog for me). But I understand your thought - would it improve the aesthetic. I think not as I think a too-long jacket sleeve will only be a second problem that doesn't fix the first one. But again, looking forward to hearing others' opinions on this one.

Since so many of my OTR shirts are inconsistent in measurement (I'm a 34" sleeve length, but 34" sleeves vary by, at least, half and inch), I just have my jacket sleeves measured correctly (some tailors measures up from the first thumb knuckle, some just eye it - I make the pin it before sewing as I know what looks right on me) and know that sometimes the shirt sleeve will be a bit long or short.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Here's a simple question: does anyone here commonly wear 3.75" ties?


----------



## Duvel

SlideGuitarist said:


> Here's a simple question: does anyone here commonly wear 3.75" ties?


Not commonly but occasionally. Most of mine are 3.25" and 3.5". I have a few in the 2.5-3" range. My ideal is 3.5".


----------



## CLTesquire

I have a question regarding Southwick suits from O'Connell's. I've always thought Southwick did a half-canvas suit (i.e. there was still some fusing below the canvas). O'Connell's markets their Southwick suits as "fully cavassed lined." Does this mean they are full canvas in that the canvas extends all the way down the front of the suit (i.e. like the construction used by Samuelsohn)? I called O'Connell's about this and the associate on the phone said that that was not what that description meant and they were just implying that the suits simply had no glue. Talk about confusing. Can you even do a half canvas suit with no fusing below the canvas?


----------



## orange fury

Wanted to get opinions on these Shoebank patriots I received today. They fit great, but I'm concerned about the stitching on the toe of the left shoe. Aesthetically you can't tell since there's no color variance, but I'm more worried about durability (I don't want the top of the shoe to separate). Thoughts appreciated:


with flash on:


----------



## Duvel

Where is the problem, OF? I don't mean to seem obtuse--I just don't notice anything apparently wrong.


----------



## zeppacoustic

Planning to pick up a Barbour Beaufort this season. Are there sales for this item? Haven't seen any; current plan is to pay full price at Orvis. I'm not interested in a used jacket. Thanks.


----------



## Duvel

I remember waiting around for sales a few years back on the Beaufort. Never saw one. Oddly, my hankering for the jacket went away, particularly when I saw how ubiquitous they'd become. I have an LL Bean field jacket that does quite nicely instead, and to my eye, is more distinctive and slightly more American trad in feel.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> Where is the problem, OF? I don't mean to seem obtuse--I just don't notice anything apparently wrong.


----------



## Duvel

I think you must have some kind of superordinary laserscopic eyesight, OF! I never would have noticed such a thing. If I had, I'm still not sure I'd have registered it as a defect. Your inspection of my closet might result in 90 percent of my stuff getting tossed in the trash!

In other words, I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

I got a new Beaufort (made in the UK) last year from End Clothing based out of the UK. It was on sale before Xmas (which was a bit odd) and I paid $300 instead of the usual $400-450. Free shipping as well!



zeppacoustic said:


> Planning to pick up a Barbour Beaufort this season. Are there sales for this item? Haven't seen any; current plan is to pay full price at Orvis. I'm not interested in a used jacket. Thanks.


----------



## Duvel

zeppa, it occured to me that you might want to check out a place called End Clothing, in the U.K., near Christmastime.

HA!


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> I remember waiting around for sales a few years back on the Beaufort. Never saw one. Oddly, my hankering for the jacket went away, particularly when I saw how ubiquitous they'd become. I have an LL Bean field jacket that does quite nicely instead, and to my eye, is more distinctive and slightly more American trad in feel.


I've wanted an LLB field jacket since I was a kid (I used to flip through the Bean catalogues when I was growing up)- this is the year I'm finally getting one. I'd like a Barbour at some point, but I've always had a sentimental attachment to the Bean jacket.



Duvel said:


> I think you must have some kind of superordinary laserscopic eyesight, OF! I never would have noticed such a thing. If I had, I'm still not sure I'd have registered it as a defect. Your inspection of my closet might result in 90 percent of my stuff getting tossed in the trash!
> 
> In other words, I wouldn't worry about it.


Haha yeah I can be a bit OCD. Thanks though, I won't worry about it


----------



## zeppacoustic

Thanks boys; will check it out. 25% off is nice but don't have the patience to wait for Christmas!


----------



## ZRM

Hello, Ive been looking for these loafers...anybody know the brand style etc?
Thank you!


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I think you must have some kind of superordinary laserscopic eyesight, OF! I never would have noticed such a thing. If I had, I'm still not sure I'd have registered it as a defect. Your inspection of my closet might result in 90 percent of my stuff getting tossed in the trash!
> 
> In other words, I wouldn't worry about it.


+1, OF is not allowed to ever inspect my clothes as I can't afford to replace my measly wardrobe. Kidding aside, OF, I'm with the others - I would not worry one second about it.


----------



## Orgetorix

ZRM said:


> Hello, Ive been looking for these loafers...anybody know the brand style etc?
> Thank you!


Very old, faded Alden for Brooks Brothers cordovan LHS (leisure handsewn) penny loafers in what was originally color 8 (burgundy) shell cordovan.

Buy them here for $728, and set them in a sunny window for a few months, rotating occasionally, until they fade to the color you want. Or just wear them and enjoy the patination process as it happens.

Be advised, though - different batches of shell fade differently. A lot of Color 8 fades to brown like above, but on mine, while the penny strap is starting to go brown, the rest are fading to a ruby color.


----------



## Duvel

Nice results!



Orgetorix said:


> Very old, faded Alden for Brooks Brothers cordovan LHS (leisure handsewn) penny loafers in what was originally color 8 (burgundy) shell cordovan.
> 
> Buy them here for $728, and set them in a sunny window for a few months, rotating occasionally, until they fade to the color you want. Or just wear them and enjoy the patination process as it happens.
> 
> Be advised, though - different batches of shell fade differently. A lot of Color 8 fades to brown like above, but on mine, while the penny strap is starting to go brown, the rest are fading to a ruby color.


----------



## Duvel

A strange week in my little world. I rarely if ever hear strangers compliment me on what I'm wearing. I rarely hear ANYONE compliment me. This week a college girl, passing by in the street, turned from talking to her friend to smile at me and say, "Sweet blazer!" (It wasn't a blazer, it was a two-button sack sport coat, but I wasn't about to correct her. I'll live off that moment for the next 10 years.) A teller in the bank another day told me she liked my "style," referring in particular to the sport coat I was wearing. 

Then, most recently, someone who has seen me dress the way I do for a way, a mere acquaintance, asked sarcastically if I really thought I was "well dressed." I laughed and said, "God no!" but it stung a bit. 

I'm trying to think if there's a question to ask about all of this. 

I think I have it. It is probalby more of a sartorial Zen-like koan: What is the difference between well-dressed and style?


----------



## GRH

Two outta three ain't bad.


Duvel said:


> A strange week in my little world. I rarely if ever hear strangers compliment me on what I'm wearing. I rarely hear ANYONE compliment me. This week a college girl, passing by in the street, turned from talking to her friend to smile at me and say, "Sweet blazer!" (It wasn't a blazer, it was a two-button sack sport coat, but I wasn't about to correct her. I'll live off that moment for the next 10 years.) A teller in the bank another day told me she liked my "style," referring in particular to the sport coat I was wearing.
> 
> Then, most recently, someone who has seen me dress the way I do for a way, a mere acquaintance, asked sarcastically if I really thought I was "well dressed." I laughed and said, "God no!" but it stung a bit.
> 
> I'm trying to think if there's a question to ask about all of this.
> 
> I think I have it. It is probalby more of a sartorial Zen-like koan: What is the difference between well-dressed and style?


----------



## Duvel

Given that the first two were female, the third merely male, I'll take it as a win overall.


----------



## Duvel

I'll expose (again) my ignorance but would this work for my Bass Weejuns?



Orgetorix said:


> Very old, faded Alden for Brooks Brothers cordovan LHS (leisure handsewn) penny loafers in what was originally color 8 (burgundy) shell cordovan.
> 
> Buy them here for $728, and set them in a sunny window for a few months, rotating occasionally, until they fade to the color you want. Or just wear them and enjoy the patination process as it happens.
> 
> Be advised, though - different batches of shell fade differently. A lot of Color 8 fades to brown like above, but on mine, while the penny strap is starting to go brown, the rest are fading to a ruby color.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> I'll expose (again) my ignorance but would this work for my Bass Weejuns?


Only if you paid $728 for them!


----------



## adept

I'm needing some trad casual shoes for the fall. Would probably be wearing them, at times, with a jacket and perhaps even a tie. Looked today at some nice suede, chukka style boots, in navy, at J&M. Not sure how trad or versatile that color is, though.

Any suggestions appreciated...


----------



## SlideGuitarist

adept said:


> I'm needing some trad casual shoes for the fall. Would probably be wearing them, at times, with a jacket and perhaps even a tie. Looked today at some nice suede, chukka style boots, in navy, at J&M. Not sure how trad or versatile that color is, though.
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated...


What sort of trousers will you be wearing most of the time?


----------



## drlivingston

Orgetorix said:


> Very old, faded Alden for Brooks Brothers cordovan LHS (leisure handsewn) penny loafers in what was originally color 8 (burgundy) shell cordovan.
> 
> Buy them here for $728, and set them in a sunny window for a few months, rotating occasionally, until they fade to the color you want. Or just wear them and enjoy the patination process as it happens.
> 
> Be advised, though - different batches of shell fade differently. A lot of Color 8 fades to brown like above, but on mine, while the penny strap is starting to go brown, the rest are fading to a ruby color.


You got lucky! Yours look great. The last pair of BB LHS that I owned ended up aging into two different colors. I am not talking about the two-toned shoes. I mean that the left shoe was a completely different tone than the right shoe. It completely pushed my OCD into overdrive.


----------



## adept

> What sort of trousers will you be wearing most of the time?


Chinos mostly, but I will branch out into whatever will go with the shoes.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

adept said:


> Chinos mostly, but I will branch out into whatever will go with the shoes.


I'd imagine that chestnut to dark brown would be your best bet.


----------



## adept

Thanks, that would be the conventional wisdom...


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm sure this is old news, but a quick search didn't bring it up elsewhere in the forum: did anyone else notice that Bills Khakis has added a forth fit, M4 (described on its site as "low rise" and is tighter all around than the M3)? Boy, that tells you how much pressure there must be for retailers to carry really slim, low-rise fits these days.


----------



## Orgetorix

Duvel said:


> I'll expose (again) my ignorance but would this work for my Bass Weejuns?


Only shell cordovan fades like this. So, unless you have shell Weejuns, no.


----------



## Orgetorix

drlivingston said:


> You got lucky! Yours look great. The last pair of BB LHS that I owned ended up aging into two different colors. I am not talking about the two-toned shoes. I mean that the left shoe was a completely different tone than the right shoe. It completely pushed my OCD into overdrive.


Agh, that would drive me nuts. The two-tone effect on mine bothers me enough already!


----------



## Duvel

Thanks.



Orgetorix said:


> Only shell cordovan fades like this. So, unless you have shell Weejuns, no.


----------



## Duvel

I was flipping through some Esquire magazines today from the '60s and '70s. It left me a little wistful. There were good writers, really good writers, of the day, filling the pages, on some really interesting, literate, sensible, and entertaining themes. The magazine was fun. Some of the fashion pages were questionable--and it was just that, fashion, not style. But I wondered, when and how did this once great magazine get so bad?


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I was flipping through some Esquire magazines today from the '60s and '70s. It left me a little wistful. There were good writers, really good writers, of the day, filling the pages, on some really interesting, literate, sensible, and entertaining themes. The magazine was fun. Some of the fashion pages were questionable--and it was just that, fashion, not style. But I wondered, when and how did this once great magazine get so bad?


My thoughts are two great waves basically destroyed the literary magazine culture we once had. The over-arching one going back to the 1920s was technology, first radio and, then, TV stole away much of the regular magazine reading public.

The second was the cultural changes of the '60s (not all the good civil rights improvements). I'm talking about the shift to a less formal, "let it be," culture where once improving oneself through "culture -" classic literature, classical music, intellectual debate (not one line hits like today) on news shows - was a goal for everyone, to today's low-brow, common denominator, whatever-people-want culture finished off magazines like "Esquire."

Despite how that above paragraph might sound, I'm not saying this is wrong - freedom is freedom and if people want Reality TV versus Buckley debating Vidal, then they should have it - but it is a shift none the less. Once there was a generally recognized societal good to trying to bring "culture" to the everyone that, today, we no longer advocate holistically as we did before the second half of the 1960s.

That's my two cents anyway.


----------



## Duvel

_Once there was a generally recognized societal good to trying to bring "culture" to the everyone that, today, we no longer advocate holistically as we did before the second half of the 1960s.

_I think this gets close to it. It's self-perpetuating, of course, and it's hard to see where the cycle begins. It's no longer an expectation, so the expectation doesn't get passed, and so it goes.

At the risk of sounding old--and that's all right, I am--I often feel sorry for kids who didn't grow up with what I knew. I feel that they are really deprived, in many ways. They'll never know the thrill of holding a really great magazine in their hands, the anticipation of finding the next month's issue on the stands, never knowing quite what to expect until you see the cover and open it up.

In some ways, I think living in an age of _less _information, at least less instantaneous information, was more interesting, more enjoyable.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> _Once there was a generally recognized societal good to trying to bring "culture" to the everyone that, today, we no longer advocate holistically as we did before the second half of the 1960s.
> 
> _I think this gets close to it. It's self-perpetuating, of course, and it's hard to see where the cycle begins. It's no longer an expectation, so the expectation doesn't get passed, and so it goes.
> 
> At the risk of sounding old--and that's all right, I am--I often feel sorry for kids who didn't grow up with what I knew. I feel that they are really deprived, in many ways. They'll never know the thrill of holding a really great magazine in their hands, the anticipation of finding the next month's issue on the stands, never knowing quite what to expect until you see the cover and open it up.
> 
> In some ways, I think living in an age of _less _information, at least less instantaneous information, was more interesting, more enjoyable.


As someone who grew up before all the digital stuff - when I ran to the mailbox to see if "The Sporting News," "Scientific American," or "Readers Digest" came, I hear you loud and clear. If the Sporting News didn't come on Saturday, you'd have to wait 'till Monday which was "so long," since it was after another weekend cycle of games - you were crushed.

And while I'd grumble sometimes when we'd watch an educational show on TV, I am incredibly grateful now that we did that. I can't even believe that NYC (of 8 kabillion people) only has one "class B" (lower wattage broadcast strength) classical music radio station buried deep on the dial. Really? This city can't support one full-strength classical music radio station? If you are exposed at a young age, must people love it for life. Yes, it isn't as immediate as Rock (which I love), but it is fantastic and not boring - but it does take a bit more engagement to get it. Oh well.


----------



## Duvel

I remember hearing my grandparents complain about how the world was getting too fast, how everyone should slow down. This was in the mid-1960s. I remember thinking they were boring. No, I didn't want the world to slow down! Faster, more of it sooner!

Now I feel just like they did. There's too much, and there's too much speed. As a result, we're less thoughtful (I mean that in at least a couple of ways), not as smart, not as stylish or classy. More stressed, more dissatisfied. 

I find myself more and more going against the grain, intentionally slowing down, or trying to. It's not easy. You do have to take yourself off the grid a bit. One thing we did was give up TV--no cable, no satellite. No noise in the background, no running chatter from CNN et al.


----------



## gamma68

While on vacation recently for eight days, we watched little to no television, and only looked at our smart phones when we needed directions or specific information for a spot we were going to visit. No email.

It was so refreshing to slow down and be off the grid. 

I definitely feel sorry for today's youth, who are growing up in a hyper-charged, now Now NOW disposable world. And for all the information that's readily available on the Internet, people seem to be less informed about the world than ever. Maybe it's because people don't take time to digest that information--to really savor it and think about it before forming an opinion. Instead, bite-sized chucks are swallowed whole and expelled without much digestion.

The problem seems to be related to "time." It takes time to read a newspaper editorial thoroughly, think about what the writer is saying, absorb those thoughts and form an opinion.

Likewise, it takes time to craft that well-written essay, just as it takes time for a weaver to produce fine Harris Tweed cloth. While HT (thankfully) survives, the vast majority is today's clothing is quickly and cheaply churned out, like the latest hit on iTunes, simply for a quick sale. No matter if it doesn't last--another version of it will be along next week.

Sometimes it feels really sad to visit a thrift store and sift through the mountains of items our throwaway culture has created. Loads of crappy clothing, books, CDs, VHS tapes, and other assorted stuff that no one wants. 

While there is no doubt that life in today's industrialized nations is in many ways better than ever, I can't help but agree with the above posts that our cultural standards of the not-so-distant past seem to have irrevocably slipped away.


----------



## Duvel

Well said, gamma. Thank you.


----------



## Duvel

Coincidentally, reading Patricia Highsmith's Strangers on a Train last night, I ran across a sentence describing one of the characters (not sure now which) thinking that "there is something inelegant about hurrying" or something like that. It made me think about the discussion above. There will never be anything elegant about today's faster hyper-connected world. But the person strolling along without a headset, without looking at his phone, or the person relaxing at a cafe reading a real book or a newspaper--that is elegant.


----------



## Califax

Don't have time at the moment to contribute but I just want to say that I am deeply in agreement with what has been said in this thread of late; and so well expressed. Makes one feel a wee bit less lonely to read such things.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Coincidentally, reading Patricia Highsmith's Strangers on a Train last night, I ran across a sentence describing one of the characters (not sure now which) thinking that "there is something inelegant about hurrying" or something like that. It made me think about the discussion above. There will never be anything elegant about today's faster hyper-connected world. But the person strolling along without a headset, without looking at his phone, or the person relaxing at a cafe reading a real book or a newspaper--that is elegant.


I've read several of her novels (not, though, "Strangers on a Train") and am impressed with her as author. I've read a few of the Ripley novels and they have held up very well. How does book "Strangers on a Train" compare to the movie?


----------



## Duvel

Fading Fast said:


> I've read several of her novels (not, though, "Strangers on a Train") and am impressed with her as author. I've read a few of the Ripley novels and they have held up very well. How does book "Strangers on a Train" compare to the movie?


I'm only about a third through but so far the plot is nearly the same but some details are different, e.g., Guy is an architect not a tennis player as in the movie.


----------



## fred johnson

[QUOTE Guy is an architect not a tennis player as in the movie.[/QUOTE]
As well he should be..


----------



## Duvel

Why?



fred johnson said:


> [QUOTE Guy is an architect not a tennis player as in the movie.


As well he should be..[/QUOTE]


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Why?
> 
> As well he should be..


[/QUOTE]

I didn't understand this either and was hoping and answer was forthcoming.


----------



## Duvel

I'm deeper into the book now, and a possible answer is becoming apparent. To fulfill his part of the scheme, he has to stealthily enter Bruno's father's house. He has to understand the layout of the house, and Guy's sense of the house, before he has seen it, and as he enters it, is enhanced by his architect's knowledge of design and house features.

That's the practical, plot-based rationale. Further, houses and where people live and work are an important theme in the book. Much is made about how where one lives is shaped by the life one lives in it as much as by the architecture of the place. There's even a sentence stating this theme in the middle of the book. 

All of this wouldn't make as much sense if Guy were not an architect in the book. This is an easy theme to accomodate in a novel, in words. I would think it would be harder, at least in a way that's interesting, to portray this theme in images in a mystery movie.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I'm deeper into the book now, and a possible answer is becoming apparent. To fulfill his part of the scheme, he has to stealthily enter Bruno's father's house. He has to understand the layout of the house, and Guy's sense of the house, before he has seen it, and as he enters it, is enhanced by his architect's knowledge of design and house features.
> 
> That's the practical, plot-based rationale. Further, houses and where people live and work are an important theme in the book. Much is made about how where one lives is shaped by the life one lives in it as much as by the architecture of the place. There's even a sentence stating this theme in the middle of the book.
> 
> All of this wouldn't make as much sense if Guy were not an architect in the book. This is an easy theme to accomodate in a novel, in words. I would think it would be harder, at least in a way that's interesting, to portray this theme in images in a mystery movie.


Makes sene - very good answer. And you can see where Hitchcock - thinking visually and dramatically - would have wanted the tennis player for those aspects as the inside-baseball game of architecture that works will in a novel would be to pedantic for the screen.


----------



## Duvel

Exactly.


----------



## Fading Fast

We interrupt this thread for the mindless ramblings of Fading Fast.

I really enjoy reading the novels of classic movies both as they are usually good reads (normally, they don't make a bad book into a movie) and they expand your understanding of the plot / characters / etc. and you get some insight into the director's thinking as you see how he adopted the novel for the screen. 

Some reasonably famous movie whose source novels I've read include "The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit," "Suspicion" (which is from the novel "After the Fact" or something like that), "The Uninvited," "The Bishop's Wife," "Mr Blandings Builds HIs Dream House," "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir," "Executive Suite," "Separate Tables" (from a published play) and, of course, "The Maltese Falcon." (And several of the James Bond novels.)


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Highsmith is very highly esteemed in Europe, from what I can tell, but I might be too sensitive to take a lot of her. It's like lifting a rock in the garden. I think the critic Terry Castle is enjoying shocking her stodgier university colleagues here (https://www.newrepublic.com/article/the-ick-factor), but:



> You Patricia Highsmith fans, you know who you are...You favor white Oxford-cloth shirts and jeans and black loafers...You have slept with a million women, and like to have a few beers and old-fashioneds before it's even breakfast time.


----------



## Fading Fast

SlideGuitarist said:


> Highsmith is very highly esteemed in Europe, from what I can tell, but I might be too sensitive to take a lot of her. It's like lifting a rock in the garden. I think the critic Terry Castle is enjoying shocking her stodgier university colleagues here (https://www.newrepublic.com/article/the-ick-factor), but:


Reading just part of the New Republic article exhausted me in a way that her books never have.

I think you are right, he's being shocking for the frisson of being shocking.


----------



## Duvel

Well... close. See edits.

You Patricia Highsmith fans, you know who you are...You favor white Oxford-cloth shirts and chinos and brown or burgandy loafers...You have slept with a million women, and like to have a few beers and old-fashioneds before it's even breakfast time.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> Some reasonably famous movie whose source novels I've read include "The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit," "Suspicion" (which is from the novel "After the Fact" or something like that), "The Uninvited," "The Bishop's Wife," "Mr Blandings Builds HIs Dream House," "The Ghost and Mrs. Muir," "Executive Suite," "Separate Tables" (from a published play) and, of course, "The Maltese Falcon." (And several of the James Bond novels.)


"Mr. Blandings" has been on my reading list for a little while now. Your post is further inspiration to pick up a copy.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> "Mr. Blandings" has been on my reading list for a little while now. Your post is further inspiration to pick up a copy.


It was good, but very close to the movie and, thus, I didn't get a lot out of it other than it is a fun book. Of the above list, I enjoyed them all, but would highly recommend "Man in the Grey Flannel Suit" as author Sloan Wilson could tell a good tale. And "The Maltese Falcon..." of course. Also, if you haven't read a Bond novel, it bring an entirely new perspective to Bond than even the early movies (which are closest to the books).


----------



## adept

@SlideGuitarist I picked these up from J&M for the Labor Day sale...half price at buck and half. One thing I like about them is that they have leather soles. Not a bad start. Having said that, I don't think they have the quality to match full retail asking price.


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## SlideGuitarist

adept said:


> @SlideGuitarist I picked these up from J&M for the Labor Day sale...half price at buck and half. One thing I like about them is that they have leather soles. Not a bad start. Having said that, I don't think they have the quality to match full retail asking price.


Thanks for the tip, but those aren't available in E...which I need. I wouldn't mind some less expensive chukkas to wear for fun, though.


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## adept

SlideGuitarist said:


> Thanks for the tip, but those aren't available in E...which I need. I wouldn't mind some less expensive chukkas to wear for fun, though.


(Thanks SG...I didn't think you were in the market but directed the response to you merely because you offered responses to my question.)


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## clark_kent

"Homemade Roll cuffs":

What's the verdict on rolling the bottoms of your chinos to create a cuff? No tailoring. Just nice durable material that will hold the rolled cuff after an iron press.

Using this method will expose the inside of the pants, so it'll show the detail and lining. People can only notice that detail when they get close to you. From the distance they can't tell.

Good / bad idea? 
Do it / don't do it?


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## Duvel

Wasn't this popular with J.Crew and PRL a few years back, and with people into kind of a streetwear/workwear style?

I think it looks terrible, myself.



clark_kent said:


> "Homemade Roll cuffs":
> 
> What's the verdict on rolling the bottoms of your chinos to create a cuff? No tailoring. Just nice durable material that will hold the rolled cuff after an iron press.
> 
> Using this method will expose the inside of the pants, so it'll show the detail and lining. People can only notice that detail when they get close to you. From the distance they can't tell.
> 
> Good / bad idea?
> Do it / don't do it?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

clark_kent said:


> "Homemade Roll cuffs":
> 
> What's the verdict on rolling the bottoms of your chinos to create a cuff? No tailoring. Just nice durable material that will hold the rolled cuff after an iron press.
> 
> Using this method will expose the inside of the pants, so it'll show the detail and lining. People can only notice that detail when they get close to you. From the distance they can't tell.
> 
> Good / bad idea?
> Do it / don't do it?


Not cool. And you'd have to buy your pants terribly long for them to not end up much too short.

I roll the hems of my jeans. But jeans are different.


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## clark_kent

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Not cool. And you'd have to buy your pants terribly long for them to not end up much too short.
> 
> I roll the hems of my jeans. But jeans are different.


Look at this before and after. In the after, the bottoms are just rolled up and folded:

https://postimg.org/image/hpm9wocs7/

https://postimg.org/image/6or4rnkjb/

Does it change your views?


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## Duvel

CK, I advise against it. I'd rather see a properly sewn cuff.


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## Fading Fast

clark_kent said:


> "Homemade Roll cuffs":
> 
> What's the verdict on rolling the bottoms of your chinos to create a cuff? No tailoring. Just nice durable material that will hold the rolled cuff after an iron press.
> 
> Using this method will expose the inside of the pants, so it'll show the detail and lining. People can only notice that detail when they get close to you. From the distance they can't tell.
> 
> Good / bad idea?
> Do it / don't do it?


I'm not a big fan of the look, in part because they always unroll on me, so I stopped trying decades ago (I never thought of ironing them in place - am I last person on earth who didn't know that this is done).

That said, and since this is the ask a question thread - are hand-rolled cuffs Trad / Ivy? It seems (and I don't have any handy [tee-hee] examples) that I've seen pictures of guys doing this in the 50s (and definitely girls), but what do others think about its Trad / Ivy creed?

My other advice to clark kent is something it took me many years to learn - fit / being well tailored is as important as the quality and style of your clothes. $1000 suit and a $200 pair of chinos look worse, if they don't fit well, than a $300 suit or $20 pair of chinos that are properly tailored.

Hence, when thinking about buying clothes, you need to immediately add in the cost of any alterations to your consideration to buy or not. While painful, it will stop you from buying some things if you really don't want to pay / can't afford the alteration cost, but it will also become a habit where you buy and immediately go to the tailor.

In the long run, you will make better purchase decisions and look better, but I admit, the added expense isn't fun.


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## YoungSoulRebel

Very, very solid advice!



Fading Fast said:


> I'm not a big fan of the look, in part because they always unroll on me, so I stopped trying decades ago (I never thought of ironing them in place - am I last person on earth who didn't know that this is done).
> 
> That said, and since this is the ask a question thread - are hand-rolled cuffs Trad / Ivy? It seems (and I don't have any handy [tee-hee] examples) that I've seen pictures of guys doing this in the 50s (and definitely girls), but what do others think about its Trad / Ivy creed?
> 
> My other advice to clark kent is something it took me many years to learn - fit / being well tailored is as important as the quality and style of your clothes. $1000 suit and a $200 pair of chinos look worse, if they don't fit well, than a $300 suit or $20 pair of chinos that are properly tailored.
> 
> Hence, when thinking about buying clothes, you need to immediately add in the cost of any alterations to your consideration to buy or not. While painful, it will stop you from buying some things if you really don't want to pay / can't afford the alteration cost, but it will also become a habit where you buy and immediately go to the tailor.
> 
> In the long run, you will make better purchase decisions and look better, but I admit, the added expense isn't fun.


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## Himself

I admit to doing it all the time, just rolling them up and wearing them before getting a chance to have them tailored. But unironed only, for casual wear.


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## LeeLo

Footwear question - Do you think sperry topsiders would be suitable to take in the sights in London during the first week of November or is it too cold at that point? If not, which affordable shoe choice would you go with (<$100)

....annnnnnddd go.


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## Oldsport

Suitable to who? This forum? Stick a pair of wool socks on slip into your Topsiders and enjoy. Take the new shoe money and have some pints!



LeeLo said:


> Footwear question - Do you think sperry topsiders would be suitable to take in the sights in London during the first week of November or is it too cold at that point? If not, which affordable shoe choice would you go with (<$100)
> 
> ....annnnnnddd go.


----------



## Reuben

LeeLo said:


> Footwear question - Do you think sperry topsiders would be suitable to take in the sights in London during the first week of November or is it too cold at that point? If not, which affordable shoe choice would you go with (<$100)
> 
> ....annnnnnddd go.





Triathlete said:


> Suitable to who? This forum? Stick a pair of wool socks on slip into your Topsiders and enjoy. Take the new shoe money and have some pints!


^While he has a point, you could also go with something like a pair of sebago campsides:

https://www.amazon.com/Sebago-Mens-...UTF8&qid=1442019409&sr=8-1&keywords=campsides

They look better with socks than boat shoes and you don't worry about stretching out those topsiders by wearing them over thick wool socks.


----------



## clark_kent

Reuben said:


> ^While he has a point, you could also go with something like a pair of sebago campsides:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Sebago-Mens-...UTF8&qid=1442019409&sr=8-1&keywords=campsides
> 
> They look better with socks than boat shoes and you don't worry about stretching out those topsiders by wearing them over thick wool socks.


Those look great, man! Almost like a Rancourt. How well do they hold up? Can you comment on that?


----------



## Reuben

clark_kent said:


> Those look great, man! Almost like a Rancourt. How well do they hold up? Can you comment on that?


Don't know how much help I can be, man. I've got a pair of campsides that have held up great over the past year of use and abuse, but they're from their premium line that I found on clearance. I think they were actually produced by Rancourt under contract. If those are anything at all like mine, though, they're great for tramping around. If they fit the same then you may consider sizing down. I did and they stretched to a perfect fit (socked or unsocked).

Another option for about a hundred bucks is the LL Bean Signature Jackson Moc:
https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/76485?feat=592-GN1&page=signature-jackman-blucher-moc-leather

I've heard really great things about Bean's Signature line and those certainly look like nice shoes, but I don't have any personal experience with them. The green ones are awfully tempting though.


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## gamma68

Clark Kent, you might also consider the Rancourt Ranger Moc, particularly at this sale price, even with international shipping: https://shop.doubleselect.com/brands/rancourt-co/rancourt-co-chromexcel-ranger-moc.html


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## YoungSoulRebel

I own the Beans and Sebagos mentioned, the Sebago versions take much longer to break in than the Beans, but they hold up a bit longer. I do love my Bean Blutchers though, they've molded to my feet well and are an everyday wear for me. Wear either one with a pair of ragg wool socks and you're golden!



Reuben said:


> Don't know how much help I can be, man. I've got a pair of campsides that have held up great over the past year of use and abuse, but they're from their premium line that I found on clearance. I think they were actually produced by Rancourt under contract. If those are anything at all like mine, though, they're great for tramping around. If they fit the same then you may consider sizing down. I did and they stretched to a perfect fit (socked or unsocked).
> 
> Another option for about a hundred bucks is the LL Bean Signature Jackson Moc:
> https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/76485?feat=592-GN1&page=signature-jackman-blucher-moc-leather
> 
> I've heard really great things about Bean's Signature line and those certainly look like nice shoes, but I don't have any personal experience with them. The green ones are awfully tempting though.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

clark_kent said:


> "Homemade Roll cuffs":
> 
> What's the verdict on rolling the bottoms of your chinos to create a cuff? No tailoring. Just nice durable material that will hold the rolled cuff after an iron press.
> 
> Using this method will expose the inside of the pants, so it'll show the detail and lining. People can only notice that detail when they get close to you. From the distance they can't tell.
> 
> Good / bad idea?
> Do it / don't do it?


I think that you may be describing something that I see people do with LL bean's flannel lined chinos. I have seen this done in casual situations where it can look like hiking or ice skating. It is not something that I would bring to the office or do with a non-flannel lined pair.


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## ran23

I am a touch too heavy for American Slim fit, is Spier and Mackay's contemperary fit a good fit?? 5-9, 157lbs.


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## shipworthy

Triathlete said:


> Suitable to who? This forum? Stick a pair of wool socks on slip into your Topsiders and enjoy. Take the new shoe money and have some pints!


I'd be more concerned about rain than cold. Wool socks and boat shoes will leave you pretty unhappy if you step in a puddle. Maybe consider also bringing some LL Bean boot gumshoes for days its going to be wet.


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## L-feld

Does Lands End accept returns on cuffed pants? I took a chance on a pair of the lighthouse chinos in traditional fit. They weren't bad for what they are, but the rise is almost nonexistent! I could probably suck it up and wear them, but I would sort of prefer to return them and maybe try something in "tall" size (laughable, as I'm 5'10").

Also, to that end, since the only chinos they have that come in a tall size are the non-iron ones, are they uncomfortable due to the nasty finish?


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## HerrDavid

They have for me in the past, L-feld.



L-feld said:


> Does Lands End accept returns on cuffed pants? I took a chance on a pair of the lighthouse chinos in traditional fit. They weren't bad for what they are, but the rise is almost nonexistent! I could probably suck it up and wear them, but I would sort of prefer to return them and maybe try something in "tall" size (laughable, as I'm 5'10").
> 
> Also, to that end, since the only chinos they have that come in a tall size are the non-iron ones, are they uncomfortable due to the nasty finish?


----------



## Spin Evans

I believe they do take returns for hemmed pants. I think Orange Fury also sent in a few pairs sometime last year.

As to the non-iron finish, they are rather stiff on first wear, but a wash or two makes them less cardboardy.


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## L-feld

Thanks, gents. Do the non-iron chinos shrink in the wash much?

I usually send out chinos to the cleaners, but it would be nice to have a pair I can wash at home in a pinch.


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## Duvel

L-field, I wear Lands' End non-iron chinos and dress twills almost exclusively. I think they're great, in every respect--say what you will about Lands' End, they at least do their trousers right. I also like their light wool and flannel wool dress pants. I get all of these cuffed. 

The chinos and twills have not shrunk much for me, maybe 1/4 inch in length, but I wash them on gentle/delicate in cold water and line dry them only, never by machine. In other words, I treat them gently!

The finish of the non-iron chinos and twills is not "nasty," in my most humble opinion. It is a bit like Permapress, 1960s era, but I don't think that's a bad thing. It is still all cotton, nothing synthetic. It keeps a nice crease, which, in my experience, still requires ironing. 

The chinos and twills are great options with blazers and sport coats. They may not be a great option if you're looking for something more casual than that, however, as the crease does dress them up a bit. 

All of this is just from my perspective, and in no way intended as authoritative or combative.

And yes, cuffs or no cuffs, returns have never been a problem for me.

I hope that helps!


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## DLW

I found an older BB windbreaker while thrifting. I'm curious about the crest on the size tag. I have not stumbled upon a BB item with such a crest before. Was it used, during a certain period, or collaboration with a manufacturer?


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## Fading Fast

Hi, is anyone familiar with a company Guideboat Co.?

I received a catalogue from the company yesterday - never heard of it before - and while it's a little too precious, a little too of-the-moment urban woodsman (or whatever that current cultural meme is), amidst the axes and perfect beards, some of the clothes are very Trad*-inspired, look very well made and not all insanely priced (the "outlet" tab on-line had nice sale prices).

Before I jump in, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the clothes? This is a link to its website:

https://www.guideboat.com

*Should "Trad" be capitalized or not? My creaky grammar memory of proper nouns has me leaning toward "yes," but since this is the "Ask a (Trad) Question..." thread, I thought I'd ask and maybe win an award for the most Trad question ever.


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## eagle2250

^^
.....but looking through a fair number of clothes and footgear the Guideboat Company offers for sale, it all seems to be made in China. Is there any real quality to be had? Sorry, but that's a deal breaker for me.


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## clark_kent

Brothers, what are some things I can do with this:

https://postimg.org/image/eoili4rvj/

https://postimg.org/image/3nngd3zmn/

Handed down from my father. Square toes, so I think jeans are crossed off the list.

I'm just asking for some ideas / suggestions as to what I can & can't wear w/ them. I'm hoping to wear them casually (work, play, etc.,)


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## smmrfld

clark_kent said:


> Brothers, what are some things I can do with this:
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/eoili4rvj/
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/3nngd3zmn/
> 
> Handed down from my father. Square toes, so I think jeans are crossed off the list.
> 
> I'm just asking for some ideas / suggestions as to what I can & can't wear w/ them. I'm hoping to wear them casually (work, play, etc.,)


Halloween is a bit over a month away...you could likely work them into some sort of costume. Those things are fugly!


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## jimw

Is anybody familiar with an older maker by the name of PBM? I am looking at this EB ad, and am not sure if this is run of the mill stuff or fairly good - not a sack, but I like the patch pockets and half-lining. Any feedback?



Cheers,

Jim


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## clark_kent

smmrfld said:


> Halloween is a bit over a month away...you could likely work them into some sort of costume. Those things are fugly!


Hahahah the Halloween one's a classic joke. And yh, I agree, they're not the greatest looking pair of shoes. I got it for free, so figured I'll try and make use of it. I read (on a different site) you don't wear square toes w/ certain types of pants, so I was hoping to get ale rules from y'all. I don't remember the site I read that as it was some years back.


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## CornoUltimo

+1, IMO you should probably avoid square toed shoes like the plague.


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## SlideGuitarist

*Red Fleece fit (for 14-year-old boy)?*

Since BB has a sale going on, _and_ I have a corporate discount, _and_ my son has shot up in height (nearly outgrowing his Land's End size 16 blue hopsack blazer, and many of his other clothes) though he's not yet 14...I'm wondering if some of our slenderer trads could advise me if I should jump on some Red Fleece for him before the sale ends. His shirt size would be 14/28, if there were such a size: he's tall! As you can see, he's still very narrow. Any ideas as to what size would suit him? He's in middle school: I don't care if a shirt is slightly baggy or whatever. He just needs to look decent. Remember that he may quickly outgrow anything I get him anyway.

The sizing chart on the Brooks site suggests that he's too tall for any of the boys' shirts.


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## Fading Fast

I'm 6'1" and 150lbs and was always a tall, slender kid (or lanky as it was usually referred to when I was growing up) and it was always a challenge to get the sleeves / pants legs long enough without swimming in the clothes. Red Fleece fits me great as their cuts are slim but not skinny, so on my frame, RF looks like regular fit BB fits on most people. 

That is a long way of saying that I think RF is a good option for your son conceptually, but I would struggle to help you pick a specific size. If the on-line size guide doesn't work, and you can't get to a store, I'd call as sometimes (not always) they have a lot more fit / size information when you call than they post on-line.

Good luck.


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## SlideGuitarist

FF, thanks for the feedback! Since I live close enough to a number of stores, I should probaby just schlep him with me sometime. I'm sorry if I asked the incurable "please tell me what to buy, and save me the trouble of trying it on" question...


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## jimw

I see that Stafford hopsack blazers are half price right now at JCP (@$150) - anybody with experience on this? It wouldn't pass any true-Trad litmus test, but it looks classically attractive (https://www.jcpenney.com/stafford-hopsack-blazer/prod.jump?ppId=pp5002440092) and the price is nice.

My only real fumbling point would be shoulders - darts and inset pockets are fine, but I don't like jackets that are over-shouldered.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## Fading Fast

SlideGuitarist said:


> FF, thanks for the feedback! Since I live close enough to a number of stores, I should probaby just schlep him with me sometime. I'm sorry if I asked the incurable "please tell me what to buy, and save me the trouble of trying it on" question...


I took your question differently, more of a "am I even thinking in the right direction for his size?" I think you are - and on sale, the RF stuff is pretty good value. I troll the end of season discounts and only a few weeks ago picked up a cotton-cashmere "summer" sweater - a grey v-neck - for 50% off that will be perfect for early fall. Also, I can't believe your son wants to go clothes shopping so I image you'd love to know his size and just order.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Fading Fast said:


> I took your question differently, more of a "am I even thinking in the right direction for his size?" I think you are - and on sale, the RF stuff is pretty good value. I troll the end of season discounts and only a few weeks ago picked up a cotton-cashmere "summer" sweater - a grey v-neck - for 50% off that will be perfect for early fall. Also, I can't believe your son wants to go clothes shopping so I image you'd love to know his size and just order.


I got you, don't worry. I'm pretty sure that shopping would not be his first choice of a fun activity. Since BB's sale continues, maybe I'll just give RF a try.


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## LeeLo

Is there any difference in comfort between the suede clarks desert boots and the beeswax leather? I currently own the beeswax version and I have to say its not very comfortable despite wearing them to the office and being off my feet most of the day.


----------



## L-feld

Duvel said:


> L-field, I wear Lands' End non-iron chinos and dress twills almost exclusively. I think they're great, in every respect--say what you will about Lands' End, they at least do their trousers right. I also like their light wool and flannel wool dress pants. I get all of these cuffed.
> 
> The chinos and twills have not shrunk much for me, maybe 1/4 inch in length, but I wash them on gentle/delicate in cold water and line dry them only, never by machine. In other words, I treat them gently!
> 
> The finish of the non-iron chinos and twills is not "nasty," in my most humble opinion. It is a bit like Permapress, 1960s era, but I don't think that's a bad thing. It is still all cotton, nothing synthetic. It keeps a nice crease, which, in my experience, still requires ironing.
> 
> The chinos and twills are great options with blazers and sport coats. They may not be a great option if you're looking for something more casual than that, however, as the crease does dress them up a bit.
> 
> All of this is just from my perspective, and in no way intended as authoritative or combative.
> 
> And yes, cuffs or no cuffs, returns have never been a problem for me.
> 
> I hope that helps!


I dropped by Sears to return the lighthouse chinos and it was no problem. I got to check out what I think were the non-iron chinos and they felt stiff as a board. What's the deal with the dress twills? Are they lighter weight? More like a cotton gab?

I might just take a chance on the non-iron chinos and then try washing them a few times as Spin recommended.

My other option is to look into something with a cotton/poly blend. I've found cotton/poly blend shirts to be more comfortable than 100% cotton shirts with a non-iron finish. I have a couple of 60/40 blends from LE that I like as backup shirts.

I know Berle makes a blended chino and so does Bills, but they are a lot more expensive than the LE. I'm cautious about spending over $100 on backup pants versus just $30-40 from LE.


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## Orgetorix

LeeLo said:


> Is there any difference in comfort between the suede clarks desert boots and the beeswax leather? I currently own the beeswax version and I have to say its not very comfortable despite wearing them to the office and being off my feet most of the day.


Are they uncomfortable because of lack of support/cushioning to your soles, or because of the stiff uppers rubbing your ankles and legs?

I had the latter issue with my beeswax boots at first, but they've gotten more supple with wear. I imagine the suede ones would be more comfortable from the get-go.


----------



## August West

jimw said:


> I see that Stafford hopsack blazers are half price right now at JCP (@$150) - anybody with experience on this? It wouldn't pass any true-Trad litmus test, but it looks classically attractive (https://www.jcpenney.com/stafford-hopsack-blazer/prod.jump?ppId=pp5002440092) and the price is nice.
> 
> My only real fumbling point would be shoulders - darts and inset pockets are fine, but I don't like jackets that are over-shouldered.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim


I purchased a Stafford Harris Tweed SC a little while back, based on positive feedback from this forum. The price was somewhere similar I believe. The shoulders are within my acceptable range, but not ideal. Dual exhaust too, which I'm not crazy about. For the money though, no complaints; an excellent knock around item.


----------



## LeeLo

Orgetorix said:


> Are they uncomfortable because of lack of support/cushioning to your soles, or because of the stiff uppers rubbing your ankles and legs?
> 
> I had the latter issue with my beeswax boots at first, but they've gotten more supple with wear. I imagine the suede ones would be more comfortable from the get-go.


The soles are just fine, however, just like you mentioned, the uppers rubbing against my ankles and pinky toes have been pretty painful by the end of the work-day.

I'm looking for a boot to walk around town in all day and keep my feet dry as well. I was hoping the suede desert boots fit the bill because they are affordable and I'm on a tight budget (<$100).


----------



## Duvel

L-feld said:


> I dropped by Sears to return the lighthouse chinos and it was no problem. I got to check out what I think were the non-iron chinos and they felt stiff as a board. *What's the deal with the dress twills? Are they lighter weight? More like a cotton gab?*
> 
> I might just take a chance on the non-iron chinos and then try washing them a few times as Spin recommended.


Yes, similar to a cotton gabardine, in my estimation. They feel slightly heavier, more substantial, to me, than the chinos. They keep a crease nicely with a little ironing, and they have nice details and generous pockets. I like them a lot.


----------



## orange fury

Wanted to get some opinions on some new sunglasses I got, specifically the shape of the frames compared to the shape of my face:


Slightly further away:


I'm a terrible judge of glasses fit, so help us appreciated. I think the shape is a bit more elegant than my Wayfarers that I wear all the time, but that doesn't do me much good if they don't work with my face. Keep or ditch?


----------



## eagle2250

^^My friend, those glasses look to be fine for the shape of your head, but, in the pics provided, it appears they are sitting cockeyed across the bridge of your nose....the top of the frame over the lens covering your left eye more closely covers that eye socket and the earpiece on the left side of your head seems to be sitting a bit higher over your left ear than does the one over your right ear. Adjust the frames to compensate for that and I think you have a winner!


----------



## Orgetorix

I have to disagree with Eagle, slightly. While those aren't bad, I think more angular frames would work better to balance your round/oval head. You've got the right idea in using a spread collar to balance out your, er, tall forehead; I'd say you need to think the same way about your frames.


----------



## Duvel

I'd go with square frames, OF. I have a somewhat oval-shaped face, myself, and round glasses don't work as they emphasize the oval shape. Square, or angular, as Oregorix suggests, have a balancing effect, and so are more pleasing. (Reference my black-and-white mug shot, post #45309, in the trad what are you wearing today thread.)


----------



## fred johnson

I have similar frames but I would say yours are slightly too large. Your eyes should be very close to the center of the lenses and yours appear to be in the upper half although its a bit hard to see through the tint. They are of a good shape in terms of your face/head if that was what your were going for.


----------



## tuckspub

Change of subject, I haven't posted in quite a long time, but am now getting married next month. My query is this, having moved from the UK I am used to wearing a morning coat for weddings but in this case my nuptials are to be at 6pm, so am I correct that at that hour it would be appropriate to wear a tux rather than morning coat? Have not yet instructed my best man so everything is changeable. PS this is not my first time at the alter and we are not wanting an extremely formal affair. It will be at an historic house in the neighborhood with the ceremony conducted on the front lawn and then reception inside the house. Should I be posting this to a different thread?


----------



## Orgetorix

tuckspub said:


> Change of subject, I haven't posted in quite a long time, but am now getting married next month. My query is this, having moved from the UK I am used to wearing a morning coat for weddings but in this case my nuptials are to be at 6pm, so am I correct that at that hour it would be appropriate to wear a tux rather than morning coat? Have not yet instructed my best man so everything is changeable. PS this is not my first time at the alter and we are not wanting an extremely formal affair. It will be at an historic house in the neighborhood with the ceremony conducted on the front lawn and then reception inside the house. Should I be posting this to a different thread?


At or after 6pm you should be in evening dress rather than a morning coat. If you don't want to be terribly formal, I'd think about wearing a nice dark suit instead. Either way, though, no morning coat.


----------



## tuckspub

Many thanks, no morning coat it is. Although I am emphasizing guests not to go beyond jacket and tie I do think since we both have tuxes that we shall go that route.


----------



## Duvel

Good grief! How many times have you been down the aisle? 



tuckspub said:


> Change of subject, I haven't posted in quite a long time, but am now getting married next month. My query is this, having moved from the UK* I am used to wearing a morning coat for weddings* but in this case my nuptials are to be at 6pm, so am I correct that at that hour it would be appropriate to wear a tux rather than morning coat? Have not yet instructed my best man so everything is changeable. PS this is not my first time at the alter and we are not wanting an extremely formal affair. It will be at an historic house in the neighborhood with the ceremony conducted on the front lawn and then reception inside the house. Should I be posting this to a different thread?


----------



## mhj

I had a tweed jacket that was thrifted for a few dollars. I really liked it alot but after wearing a couple of times I noticed that the elbows had hole worn in them.



jimw said:


> Is anybody familiar with an older maker by the name of PBM? I am looking at this EB ad, and am not sure if this is run of the mill stuff or fairly good - not a sack, but I like the patch pockets and half-lining. Any feedback?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jim


----------



## Reuben

mhj said:


> I had a tweed jacket that was thrifted for a few dollars. I really liked it alot but after wearing a couple of times I noticed that the elbows had hole worn in them.


----------



## Reuben

Also, would it be possible to have embroidery added to a pair of pants? Say I've got a pair of christmas pants that are great now but would be absolutely amazing with the addition of green christmas trees to the navy corduroy portions.


----------



## L-feld

Reuben said:


> Also, would it be possible to have embroidery added to a pair of pants? Say I've got a pair of christmas pants that are great now but would be absolutely amazing with the addition of green christmas trees to the navy corduroy portions.


Yes, but it will be expensive because it cannot be done through a normal machine, which is intended for bolts of fabric. It will also be difficult to embroider certain areas, since the fabric needs to be flat.

I'm picturing 4 panel pants and if the navy portion you're referring to is one of the front panels, it will be a lot easier than the back panel, which is more curved.


----------



## fishertw

If I recall correctly, PBM was a mid line in the 70's. Probably a pretty good buy given the offshoring and decline in many men's wear lines since then.


----------



## Reuben

L-feld said:


> Yes, but it will be expensive because it cannot be done through a normal machine, which is intended for bolts of fabric. It will also be difficult to embroider certain areas, since the fabric needs to be flat.
> 
> I'm picturing 4 panel pants and if the navy portion you're referring to is one of the front panels, it will be a lot easier than the back panel, which is more curved.


Blackwatch flannel, black corduroy, and navy corduroy patchwork actually


----------



## doomx

One of my silk knit ties appears to be quite longer since I stupidly let it hang with the rest of my ties. Any way to fix this?


----------



## L-feld

Reuben said:


> Blackwatch flannel, black corduroy, and navy corduroy patchwork actually


Oh yeah, that will be tough. It would probably have to be hand embroidered, which will be really expensive.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


----------



## preppy4ever

Ok gentlemen. At what age should a man stop wearing a rugby shirt? I have quite a few in my closet and am just wondering. 

Joe


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

preppy4ever said:


> Ok gentlemen. At what age should a man stop wearing a rugby shirt? I have quite a few in my closet and am just wondering.
> 
> Joe


I don't think anybody should be buried in one.


----------



## YoungSoulRebel

I just turned 40 and I still wear mine on VERY casual days, beach trips.. Basically anytime im anticipating physical activity (but not TOO much physical activity haha).



preppy4ever said:


> Ok gentlemen. At what age should a man stop wearing a rugby shirt? I have quite a few in my closet and am just wondering.
> 
> Joe


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I have a question about eBay ethics. I recently purchased a Samuelsohn blazer, navy. USPS's tracking information tells me that the package got to the mail room at my office...and sat there for several days. My own operations Zstaff never saw it. A few days later USPS took it back as "undeliverable" (no idea why; I get packages there all the time). After this it disappeared! eBay favors the buyer, but I hate to stiff the seller because USPS messed up, esp. because I'd like to get the jacket if it finally gets returned. 

We're talking about $60 here. Has anyone else had to make these moral calculations?


----------



## Oldsport

Well, never if you keep playin Rugby....



preppy4ever said:


> Ok gentlemen. At what age should a man stop wearing a rugby shirt? I have quite a few in my closet and am just wondering.
> 
> Joe


----------



## phyrpowr

fishertw said:


> If I recall correctly, PBM was a mid line in the 70's. Probably a pretty good buy given the offshoring and decline in many men's wear lines since then.


I remember them. Decent buy at $40, but make an offer.


----------



## Radio Free Eurasia

Anyone have thoughts on this jacket (year specifically)? I thrifted it, but it would require quite a few alterations for a great fit and I'm not sure if it's worth it. I like the pattern but sacks don't fit me very well off the rack (or off multiple racks as the case may be).


----------



## benjclark

I believe that's the 1949-1961 tag.


----------



## benjclark

Now that I'm out of the backwoods of Montana and in a larger city, I actually find nice trad stuff that will never be my size --- but with a new job/ new old house/ new lady/ new baby, I don't have much time to thrift, but definitely no time to sell. Any of the AAAC faithful take consignments?


----------



## clark_kent

When buying a trench coat:

(1) what length should one go for? above the knees or below?

(2) zipper or buttons? 

(3) best color for versatility: black or khaki/tan?


----------



## orange fury

clark_kent said:


> When buying a trench coat:
> 
> (1) what length should one go for? above the knees or below?
> 
> (2) zipper or buttons?
> 
> (3) best color for versatility: black or khaki/tan?


My vote:
1) above the knees
2) buttons
3) tan


----------



## orange fury

I know athletic shoes are contentious around here, but I was wondering if there were any opinions about the New Balance 990 vs the 993. I had some NB's in college that were great for training/off-road running, and though I use Adidas and NB running flats for distance stuff now, I was interested in either the 990 or 993 as a general training/walking shoe. I've heard great things about both (and really liked the 990 when I tried it on), and they're considered an iconic shoe, so I figured someone here might have experience with these.


----------



## FiscalDean

preppy4ever said:


> Ok gentlemen. At what age should a man stop wearing a rugby shirt? I have quite a few in my closet and am just wondering.
> 
> Joe


I'm in my 60's and still wear a rugby shirt around the house and for running weekend errands.


----------



## GRH

Never occurred to me there was an upper age limit, but I seem to have forsaken rugbies for OTJs (old tweed jackets) since about age 65.



FiscalDean said:


> I'm in my 60's and still wear a rugby shirt around the house and for running weekend errands.


----------



## Duvel

preppy4ever said:


> Ok gentlemen. At what age should a man stop wearing a rugby shirt? I have quite a few in my closet and am just wondering.
> 
> Joe


Is a rugby shirt ever age inappropriate, I think is what you're asking. No more so than a polo shirt or an ocbd, in my opinion. At 60 and some months, I still wear my PRL rugby shirt.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

CG penny loafers seem sort of schoolboyish to me...and I wear them anyway. What's the problem?


----------



## Califax

orange fury said:


> I know athletic shoes are contentious around here, but I was wondering if there were any opinions about the New Balance 990 vs the 993. I had some NB's in college that were great for training/off-road running, and though I use Adidas and NB running flats for distance stuff now, I was interested in either the 990 or 993 as a general training/walking shoe. I've heard great things about both (and really liked the 990 when I tried it on), and they're considered an iconic shoe, so I figured someone here might have experience with these.


I am a big believer in minimalist sneakers - NB makes a superb one. They make one with a 5% and one with a 0% grade. 99% of sneakers on the market (due to rise and all that cushioning) encourage (at best) very poor posture/mechanics. I was a competitive sprinter at prep school/college.


----------



## orange fury

Califax said:


> I am a big believer in minimalist sneakers - NB makes a superb one. They make one with a 5% and one with a 0% grade. 99% of sneakers on the market (due to rise and all that cushioning) encourage (at best) very poor posture/mechanics. I was a competitive sprinter at prep school/college.


Fully agree- my race shoe is the NB Minimus MR00 road flat (zero drop/Vibram outsole). I've tried running a couple 10k's in some Nike Free 4.0 Flyknits, but just wasn't nearly as comfortable as I was in the Minimus (also, even with how light the Flyknit is, it felt like wearing concrete the first few times I ran in them compared to the NB). Any opinions on the Adidas Adizero Adios Boost 2? I was considering switching to these for my upcoming marathon because of the good reviews for distance runs, but I noticed it has a 9.4mm drop.


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> I know athletic shoes are contentious around here, but I was wondering if there were any opinions about the New Balance 990 vs the 993. I had some NB's in college that were great for training/off-road running, and though I use Adidas and NB running flats for distance stuff now, I was interested in either the 990 or 993 as a general training/walking shoe. I've heard great things about both (and really liked the 990 when I tried it on), and they're considered an iconic shoe, so I figured someone here might have experience with these.


Yes, the 990 is the classic Frat Balance model, although it seems to have been replaced in recent years by the much less expensive 574 as the popular choice for those more interested in sporting "the look" than in the superior technical qualities of the shoe. I'm not familiar with the 993, but some quick searching suggests it's a variation on the 990. While the 990 is designed as a running shoe, I'm sure it would be fine for your stated purpose (if not a bit overengineered).


----------



## Califax

orange fury said:


> Fully agree- my race shoe is the NB Minimus MR00 road flat (zero drop/Vibram outsole). I've tried running a couple 10k's in some Nike Free 4.0 Flyknits, but just wasn't nearly as comfortable as I was in the Minimus (also, even with how light the Flyknit is, it felt like wearing concrete the first few times I ran in them compared to the NB). Any opinions on the Adidas Adizero Adios Boost 2? I was considering switching to these for my upcoming marathon because of the good reviews for distance runs, but I noticed it has a 9.4mm drop.


Not familiar with that adidas shoe; nor that nike, but if it were me I'd go for the zero drop minimus - I'm biased because it's also a boston made shoe and it fits me like a bespoke suit, lol. The Minimus is my go to for weight training (0 grade = perfect), sprinting, light cardio and even for the little semi-long distance I do. I also use Vibram Five fingers quite a bit, for sprinting/training on grass etc. I know quite a few marathoners who are totally barefoot at this point. Wouldn't go that far, lol.


----------



## Fading Fast

Is the only traditional color for a Peacoat navy? I saw a dark grey one and thought it looked nice, but then thought it might be odd to have a Peacoat in any other color but Navy - thoughts?


----------



## Duvel

I'm no expert in pea coat wear, but a color other than navy feels like fashion, if you know what I mean.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I'm no expert in pea coat wear, but a color other than navy feels like fashion, if you know what I mean.


I hear ya - just wanted a sanity smack upside my head. I really liked the look of it, but thought I wouldn't like it once I owned it and realized what I had done. Buy peacoat in navy, by peacoat in navy, by peacoat in navy...:fool:

Thanks Duvel


----------



## niv

What is the collective wisdom about wearing tweed caps with business suits? This is with or without a topcoat.


----------



## GRH

Why would you?


----------



## niv

GRH said:


> Why would you?


Never wore hats before and am not sure about the rules. Now that my hair has jumped ship, I'd like to know my options when in a business suit.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Enjoy wearing your hat(s) and don't get too wrapped around the axel over what others may think. 

I've a couple of tweed flat caps/driving caps that I wear on a regular basis during the winter months. I also have several nice fedoras that get left at home because of the lack of head clearance in either one of our automobiles.


----------



## Duvel

There are no rules, of course. Nobody's gonna haul you off to the Sartorial Prison for the Criminally Badly Dressed for wearing a cap with a suit or for committing any other imagined or real menswear infraction.

But, in general, I think a cap is too casual for a suit. A fedora felt hat with a good-sized brim (not hipster small, not sombrero big) goes well with a suit, in my opinion.

I seldom wear suits but I frequently wear blazers and sport coats, along with longer overcoats in the cold months. As one whose own hair strands, for the majority, abandoned ship a while ago, I opt for a straw panama hat in the warm months and a dark green felt fedora for winter.

If I'm going with a casual tweed jacket, however, especially with no tie, I'll don a tweed Ivy League cap.



niv said:


> Never wore hats before and am not sure about the rules. Now that my hair has jumped ship, I'd like to know my options when in a business suit.


----------



## clark_kent

New Balance ML565, any reason why it's so cheap? (price wise)

I'm considering buying a pair since I don't have a pair of sneakers at all. They will be used only for: work, gym, running, taking out trash, small errands... they won't be used to "dress". They won't be worn often so that should help with durability. I'm concerned about comfort.

Why are these so cheap? Is it because they're not comfortable?


----------



## niv

*BB Peal Broque Shoes*

I bought BB's Broque shoes when they were on sale recently. They are listed as calfskin online but came with a "care for cordovan" pamphlet. I wore them and had them shined as I do for new calf shoes. Afterwards, I looked them over and they had the type of creasing and odd white material that appears with cordovan. I contacted the company and they are indeed cordovan. It's not a problem, I like cordovan, but I polished the arse out of them. Is there anything I should do about all the polish used or just make sure I properly care for them as cordovan in the future?


----------



## orange fury

Opinions needed on these glasses- I ordered them online and received them this morning:





You can't really tell in the close up, but I felt like they might look a little small on my face (I haven't changed frames from my current pair in 5 years, so that may be part of it)


----------



## Orgetorix

OF, browline glasses are absolute classics. Trad staples. However - and I don't mean this to be insulting - when your own brows are already the most prominent features on your face, I'm not sure that enhancing them with browline specs is your best option. 

Beyond that, I understand your concern about them being too narrow. the drop from the top plastic part to the wire lowers really messes with our ability to perceive or judge the width of Clubmaster-type frames like this. It's one of the big reasons they've never worked for me.

I think you'd look good in a full-frame pair of specs with a slightly more angular shape. Something like the Shuron Freeway, if you want to go with a classic. I'd stay with something wider than it is tall, so not as tall as, say, Wayfarers. Warby Parker has tons of options in these kinds of shapes, if you're at all inclined to give them a try.


----------



## Orgetorix

niv said:


> I bought BB's Broque shoes when they were on sale recently. They are listed as calfskin online but came with a "care for cordovan" pamphlet. I wore them and had them shined as I do for new calf shoes. Afterwards, I looked them over and they had the type of creasing and odd white material that appears with cordovan. I contacted the company and they are indeed cordovan. It's not a problem, I like cordovan, but I polished the arse out of them. Is there anything I should do about all the polish used or just make sure I properly care for them as cordovan in the future?


If you put a lot of polish on, you may want to strip it off with conditioner. If it was just a bit, you'll probably be fine to move forward, using it sparingly in the future.


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> Opinions needed on these glasses- I ordered them online and received them this morning:
> 
> You can't really tell in the close up, but I felt like they might look a little small on my face (I haven't changed frames from my current pair in 5 years, so that may be part of it)


i thought you had settled on the AA406. I agree with Org's comments regarding the browlines.


----------



## Oldsport

The only traditional *Navy *Pea Coat is, Navy*. *Also pay attention to the number of buttons and the length. 4-sets of two buttons (one set hidden at neck), and make sure it covers your butt.

Yours Truly,

LCDR Triathlete, USN(retired)



Fading Fast said:


> I hear ya - just wanted a sanity smack upside my head. I really liked the look of it, but thought I wouldn't like it once I owned it and realized what I had done. Buy peacoat in navy, by peacoat in navy, by peacoat in navy...:fool:
> 
> Thanks Duvel


----------



## orange fury

Orgetorix said:


> OF, browline glasses are absolute classics. Trad staples. However - and I don't mean this to be insulting - when your own brows are already the most prominent features on your face, I'm not sure that enhancing them with browline specs is your best option.
> 
> Beyond that, I understand your concern about them being too narrow. the drop from the top plastic part to the wire lowers really messes with our ability to perceive or judge the width of Clubmaster-type frames like this. It's one of the big reasons they've never worked for me.
> 
> I think you'd look good in a full-frame pair of specs with a slightly more angular shape. Something like the Shuron Freeway, if you want to go with a classic. I'd stay with something wider than it is tall, so not as tall as, say, Wayfarers. Warby Parker has tons of options in these kinds of shapes, if you're at all inclined to give them a try.


I appreciate the feedback, and I think your comment concerning my eyebrows nailed it as to why I wasn't quite sure about the frames. I've glanced at Shurons in the past, but have preferred the Sidewinders to the Freeways (I like the wider arm, it reminds me of my Wayfarer sunglasses). My only problem is that I've never been able to try on any pairs, so I have no idea how they'll actually look on me. I also prefer tortoiseshell, so I think getting frames in that instead of black may help mitigate the eyebrow issue.

ive thought about trying Warby Parker in the past, but I kept seeing very mixed reviews about quality- any idea if they've improved?



FLCracka said:


> i thought you had settled on the AA406. I agree with Org's comments regarding the browlines.


I had, until I read some reviews about their durability. I tried on some OP Sheldrakes (in large part because of Duvel's ringing endorsement) and loved them, but they were a bit more than I was willing to spend at that time (about a year ago). My situation has changed, so I may go try them out again.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

orange fury said:


> ive thought about trying Warby Parker in the past, but I kept seeing very mixed reviews about quality- any idea if they've improved?


Dropping in on them Friday, if I forget to mention it on here shoot me a PM.

ck, don't buy sneakers online. Really, don't buy any shoes online if you can help it, but if the goal is comfort, the biggest element is fit.


----------



## Orgetorix

orange fury said:


> ive thought about trying Warby Parker in the past, but I kept seeing very mixed reviews about quality- any idea if they've improved?


My current frames are WP, and I haven't had any problems with them in the 2-3 years I've had them. I don't wear them every day, they are mainly backups to my contact lenses, but still, I haven't seen any quality or durability issues.


----------



## orange fury

Unfortunately, I had to return my AE Patriot loafers, as they were horrendously uncomfortable to the point of being unwearable. I tried on several different sizes and widths and arrived at the conclusion that the 606 last just doesn't work for me. I still need some loafers to replace the Bass Weejuns and two pairs of Cole Haan bits that I had, and AE is letting me do an exchange, so I've been debating between brown Cavanaughs and chili Randolphs. Any opinions?


----------



## Reuben

orange fury said:


> Unfortunately, I had to return my AE Patriot loafers, as they were horrendously uncomfortable to the point of being unwearable. I tried on several different sizes and widths and arrived at the conclusion that the 606 last just doesn't work for me. I still need some loafers to replace the Bass Weejuns and two pairs of Cole Haan bits that I had, and AE is letting me do an exchange, so I've been debating between brown Cavanaughs and chili Randolphs. Any opinions?


Well, I love my patriots but can't get a pair of cavanaughs to work for me, so maybe the opposite is true for you?


----------



## orange fury

Reuben said:


> Well, I love my patriots but can't get a pair of cavanaughs to work for me, so maybe the opposite is true for you?


I tried on some Cavanaughs at my local AE store, and my regular size (10.5 D) seemed to work, but with a bit of heel slippage. Not enough to really make it an issue though, I think as the shoe breaks in it'll fix itself.

of course, now I'm seeing that the Cavanaugh has the ringing endorsement of both Billax and OCBD, so that's a huge plus in favor of that shoe...


----------



## FLMike

orange fury said:


> I tried on some Cavanaughs at my local AE store, and my regular size (10.5 D) seemed to work, but with a bit of heel slippage. Not enough to really make it an issue though, I think as the shoe breaks in it'll fix itself.
> 
> of course, now I'm seeing that the Cavanaugh has the ringing endorsement of both Billax and OCBD, so that's a huge plus in favor of that shoe...


I had a similar experience with my Patriots and had to sell them (I had worn them a few times so couldn't return them). I loved the shoes but they were just too snug across the vamp and made the tops of my feet sore after awhile.

I personally wouldn't buy a pair of shoes with an issue in hopes "it'll fix itself". I especially wouldn't recommend that approach for someone as particular as you. I've never tried the Cavanaugh but I have the Walden and get lots of use out them. They are very comfortable on me, in my usual size. Good luck in your loafer quest.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I've tried them both. No go. When I get loafers again, they will be cheapies with a single sole.


----------



## Duvel

I love my Bass Weejuns (two pair, one beefroll, one strap). See no reason to go anywhere else for loafers.



SlideGuitarist said:


> I've tried them both. No go. When I get loafers again, they will be cheapies with a single sole.


----------



## Reuben

Duvel said:


> I love my Bass Weejuns (two pair, one beefroll, one strap). See no reason to go anywhere else for loafers.


Better quality construction and materials, greater variety in materials (shell, Stead suede, ect), to support american manufacturing, because you wear a non-D width, orthodics, or your feet just don't play well with Bass's lasts. Now don't get me wrong, the weejun is still a great choice for beginners or someone who wants a beater/disposable shoe but there're plenty of reasons to look at other companies.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> I love my Bass Weejuns (two pair, one beefroll, one strap). See no reason to go anywhere else for loafers.


my Weejuns didn't hold up very well at all. I liked the shape and they fit me well, but I want to step up to something that will last a long time (and being American made doesn't hurt)


----------



## SlideGuitarist

I don't doubt that there's a nicer-looking, and better-constructed, loafer out there than the Weejun. When I see the shell loafers here, I am properly envious. However, my feet tend to slide outward, _especially_ so in loafers, and I can't afford any more expensive mistakes when it comes to shoes. I don't wear sneakers, either, for similar reasons: the only ones that work for me are Air Force Ones with absurdly built-up heel support. I do indeed want beaters for getting the mail, or for wearing with my _gi_ , in the car.


----------



## Duvel

Good points. I should clarify: I see no reason for me to go elsewhere for them. Meaning, at the risk of ridicule from all corners, that they're good enough for me. I'm not a beginner, as there's always been a pair or two in my closet for decades. I simply see no reason to get anything else, personally.



Reuben said:


> Better quality construction and materials, greater variety in materials (shell, Stead suede, ect), to support american manufacturing, because you wear a non-D width, orthodics, or your feet just don't play well with Bass's lasts. Now don't get me wrong, the weejun is still a great choice for beginners or someone who wants a beater/disposable shoe but there're plenty of reasons to look at other companies.


----------



## gamma68

To me, Reuben's point about better quality construction and materials is reason enough to forgo Bass Weejuns made outside the USA. I don't like the plastic feel of today's Weejuns.

*As the French say, "chacun* à *son goût."*


----------



## Califax

Everyone's feet are different I suppose; I absolutely love my Rancourt Beefroll Penny Loafers, Natural Chromexcel. They fit like a glove for my feet; I swear I could run a marathon in them, lol. They are also, in my opinion, extremely well made. And they have superb customer service.


----------



## Duvel

They break in nicely, though.



gamma68 said:


> To me, Reuben's point about better quality construction and materials is reason enough to forgo Bass Weejuns made outside the USA. I don't like the plastic feel of today's Weejuns.
> 
> *As the French say, "chacun* à *son goût."*


----------



## FLMike

gamma68 said:


> To me, Reuben's point about better quality construction and materials is reason enough to forgo Bass Weejuns made outside the USA. I don't like the *plastic feel *of today's Weejuns.


You mean they're not actually plastic? I just assumed...


----------



## Duvel

No, they're leather.


----------



## orange fury

Tried on the Cavanaughs again today, walking around they fit far better than I initially thought, so problem solved- thanks gents!


----------



## Califax

If I normally take a 30/30 in BB chinos. And there's a particular color I'm looking for (BB doesn't carry it anymore/out of stock, etc.), but I can only find it as 30/34. Would this fit me the same except for the length of the inseam? In other words, would the rise (or any other dimension other than the inseam) change? Thanks!


----------



## Orgetorix

Califax said:


> If I normally take a 30/30 in BB chinos. And there's a particular color I'm looking for (BB doesn't carry it anymore/out of stock, etc.), but I can only find it as 30/34. Would this fit me the same except for the length of the inseam? In other words, would the rise (or any other dimension other than the inseam) change? Thanks!


Only the inseam changes.


----------



## Califax

Orgetorix said:


> Only the inseam changes.


Thanks. That's what I thought.

And yet, if a pant is designed for someone that tall (say, 6,3"), wouldn't other dimensions change? It kind of makes sense that other dimensions such as rise would change, no?


----------



## Duvel

I'm wearing stone (off-white) chinos and it is past Labor Day. Is this acceptable?



Just kidding.


----------



## FLMike

Califax said:


> If I normally take a 30/30 in BB chinos. And there's a particular color I'm looking for (BB doesn't carry it anymore/out of stock, etc.), but I can only find it as 30/34. Would this fit me the same except for the length of the inseam? In other words, would the rise (or any other dimension other than the inseam) change? Thanks!


I don't know about their chinos, but I recently bought two pair of BB wool trousers and intentionally bought them with a 34" inseam (vs. my actual 30" inseam) for two reasons. First, I wanted enough material to put cuffs on them, and their flat front trousers only come finished (unfortunately) with a plain hem. And, secondly, starrting with the 34" inseam, they have a longer rise than the ones with 30" or 32" inseam. I verified this by trying them both on.

Again, not sure if this applies to their chinos, or just to their tailored pants.


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I'm wearing stone (off-white) chinos and it is past Labor Day. Is this acceptable?
> 
> Just kidding.


If we include stone (off-white) in the "not after Labor Day guideline," I'd be in violation of it for the past 40 years for about 100 days a year (including today).


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> I'm wearing stone (off-white) chinos and it is past Labor Day. Is this acceptable?
> 
> Just kidding.


Duvel, if you sexy, then flaunt it. If you freaky, then own it. That's my advice.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

I wanted to get in on the penny loafer talk. I love the look of the Cavenaugh, but gave up on sizing (it was also very stiff). I like the look of the Patriot, but I am still working on seeing if there is a fit for me. The weejun for whatever reason works well for me. I know the construction/material are not optimal, but they have a great shape and fit me well.

We all have different feet. I am learning that I need a single sole and maybe only blake stitched loafers. I need shoes that flex. I also have a high instep and narrow heals. The narrow heal makes loafers difficult.


----------



## Roycru

I have a pair of Allen-Edmonds Flagstaff (Made in the Dominican Republic) penny loafers. I haven't found any differences in quality between the AE shoes made in the Dominican Republic and the AE shoes made in Wisconsin....


----------



## adept

> I'm wearing stone (off-white) chinos


What I wore today with a nice Orvis rugby shirt...


----------



## Califax

Roycru said:


> I have a pair of Allen-Edmonds Flagstaff (Made in the Dominican Republic) penny loafers. I haven't found any differences in quality between the AE shoes made in the Dominican Republic and the AE shoes made in Wisconsin....


Of course, this is going merely by looking at a photo of your feet in shoes over the inter webs, but that gaping on the right I think is caused by the additional effective width of your right foot - which is caused, I believe (based on a number of things including the pronation as evidenced by your ankle) by a slightly shorter first metatarsal. If you were to post that first metatarsal with something - say, a bit of moleskin (I can show you how to do do it) - that would straighten everything up, reduce that gaping, and possibly save you from other problems (knee, hip, back) that can develop from this.

EDIT: LOL, I am NOT giving you medical advice and am not qualified to do so.


----------



## Califax

oxford cloth button down said:


> I wanted to get in on the penny loafer talk. I love the look of the Cavenaugh, but gave up on sizing (it was also very stiff). I like the look of the Patriot, but I am still working on seeing if there is a fit for me. The weejun for whatever reason works well for me. I know the construction/material are not optimal, but they have a great shape and fit me well.
> 
> We all have different feet. I am learning that I need a single sole and maybe only blake stitched loafers. I need shoes that flex. I also have a high instep and narrow heals. The narrow heal makes loafers difficult.


Double soles and you step out of them OCBD?


----------



## Duvel

I'm a little of both.

It made deciding on the wax cotton jacket a little difficult today. Stone chinos with the rugged Royal Scot jacket was a bit incongruous. I should have been wearing cords. But I grabbed it nonetheless.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Duvel, if you sexy, then flaunt it. If you freaky, then own it. That's my advice.


----------



## DLW

I have a question about the nuances of coats, which button as a man's coat to the right, or women's coat to the left.

I acquired this Pendleton thrifting and for all purposes, I will assume is a man's. The label has a dark blue background with gold lettering and inscribed with Sir Pendleton. Any women's Pendleton I am familiar with label is white background with gold lettering.

I have found coats manufactured this way and always left them behind, being confused. I am just curious why a coat is made this way.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Califax said:


> Double soles and you step out of them OCBD?


This may be true. Never thought about that. I just know that I don't like how stiff double soles make shoes.


----------



## GRH

The buttons on a classic sailor's peacoat work both ways, too. Not a unisex concession; rather a feature that enables chilly, watch-standing mariners to avoid drafts, no matter which way the wind blows.



Tweed McVay said:


> I have a question about the nuances of coats, which button as a man's coat to the right, or women's coat to the left.
> 
> I acquired this Pendleton thrifting and for all purposes, I will assume is a man's. The label has a dark blue background with gold lettering and inscribed with Sir Pendleton. Any women's Pendleton I am familiar with label is white background with gold lettering.
> 
> I have found coats manufactured this way and always left them behind, being confused. I am just curious why a coat is made this way.


----------



## DLW

GRH said:


> The buttons on a classic sailor's peacoat work both ways, too. Not a unisex concession; rather a feature that enables chilly, watch-standing mariners to avoid drafts, no matter which way the wind blows.


 Thank you for your reply. The explanation is practical and makes perfect sense. I would have never surmised such a reason.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Nice to see you again, Tweed!


----------



## DLW

SlideGuitarist said:


> Nice to see you again, Tweed!


 Thank you for the greeting, SlideGuitarist

Another question if I may. Does anyone know a good source for leather buttons? The Pendleton originally had leather buttons replaced over the years. Two original buttons still exist, one on each sleeve (top missing on one). I would like to replace the buttons with ones as close to the original if possible. Any ideas


----------



## Califax

Does anyone make hefty blazer buttons? 

Even if they are apparently made of brass, so many blazer buttons seem so light compared to buttons I already own (no idea of make, etc.)


----------



## Monocle

Tweed McVay said:


> Thank you for the greeting, SlideGuitarist
> 
> Another question if I may. Does anyone know a good source for leather buttons? The Pendleton originally had leather buttons replaced over the years. Two original buttons still exist, one on each sleeve (top missing on one). I would like to replace the buttons with ones as close to the original if possible. Any ideas


I may have some original leather Pendleton buttons. I harvest them off of moth-eaten wools I acquired over the years. I'll look when I get home this evening. Can you state the diameter of the ones you need? Please.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sskim3

Tweed McVay said:


> Thank you for the greeting, SlideGuitarist
> 
> Another question if I may. Does anyone know a good source for leather buttons? The Pendleton originally had leather buttons replaced over the years. Two original buttons still exist, one on each sleeve (top missing on one). I would like to replace the buttons with ones as close to the original if possible. Any ideas


if no one has spares, you can get a beat up on with leather buttons intact via eBay for relatively cheap.


----------



## ran23

I was staring at the Stafford Boot at Penney's on sale for $60. ($100) until my wife came up behind me and asked what I was looking at. she never comments or notices what I wear, I could probably go back and get them. ??


----------



## DLW

Monocle said:


> I may have some original leather Pendleton buttons. I harvest them off of moth-eaten wools I acquired over the years. I'll look when I get home this evening. Can you state the diameter of the ones you need? Please.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Monocle thanks for the offer to check for buttons. The small button diameter is 3/4 inch and the larger button 1 1/4 inch. The coat actually needs three small buttons one for each sleeve and third under the collar to fasten the lapel across. The large buttons of course are six.


----------



## sskim3

ran23 said:


> I was staring at the Stafford Boot at Penney's on sale for $60. ($100) until my wife came up behind me and asked what I was looking at. she never comments or notices what I wear, I could probably go back and get them. ??


Yes! For $60, it's hard to beat that price and they don't look too shabby either.


----------



## fred johnson

Duvel said:


> Good points. I should clarify: I see no reason for me to go elsewhere for them. Meaning, at the risk of ridicule from all corners, that they're good enough for me. I'm not a beginner, as there's always been a pair or two in my closet for decades. I simply see no reason to get anything else, personally.


 What he said... + my vintage, US Made, Cole-Hann


----------



## adept

Looking for some background info. What can you tell me about* J G Hook*? Is/was this a trad clothier?


----------



## Reuben

adept said:


> Looking for some background info. What can you tell me about* J G Hook*? Is/was this a trad clothier?


Here ya go:

https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2011/04/max-raab-part-ii.html


----------



## adept

Thanks, Reuben!



Reuben said:


> Here ya go:
> 
> https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2011/04/max-raab-part-ii.html


----------



## orange fury

Two unrelated questions:

first, I just received my AE Cavanaughs in the mail. They're going back because they're in terrible shape (holes in the upper near the ankle, and the shoes look like they were put in a dryer). However, I noticed that they fit horribly compared to the ones I tried on in the store last week- is sizing being off something that's normal for Shoebank? Because I was going to exchange them, but I don't want to run into the same issue I did with the patriots.

second, I have a wedding to attend tomorrow where my wife is a bridesmaid. The wedding is at noon and the reception is until 3, so I was thinking a light grey suit, burgundy or walnut shoes, white shirt, and a navy tie with white pindots. Good for a daytime wedding or no?


----------



## Duvel

orange fury said:


> Two unrelated questions:
> 
> first, I just received my AE Cavanaughs in the mail. They're going back because they're in terrible shape (holes in the upper near the ankle, and the shoes look like they were put in a dryer). However, I noticed that they fit horribly compared to the ones I tried on in the store last week- is sizing being off something that's normal for Shoebank? Because I was going to exchange them, but I don't want to run into the same issue I did with the patriots.
> 
> second, I have a wedding to attend tomorrow where my wife is a bridesmaid. The wedding is at noon and the reception is until 3, so I was thinking a light grey suit, burgundy or walnut shoes, white shirt, and a navy tie with white pindots.* Good for a daytime wedding or no?*


OF, Honors Members do not ask this kind of question.

But yes, in my opinion, it sounds fine, although I'd tend to go with a light blue shirt instead of white.


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> OF, Honors Members do not ask this kind of question.


Haha I realize that, but the only weddings I've been to have been evening ones, or ones with an evening reception. Also, when I searched on here and TOF, all I could seem to come up with were questions from the groom about daytime weddings


----------



## Duvel

Remember to unbutton your jacket before sitting down to your table at the reception, and you'll be golden.


----------



## Duvel

I took the bait today: https://www.ivy-style.com/esquires-league-of-the-ivy-look-1961.html

I miss the Esquire of old. I read it frequently circa 1973-1975. Previously, as a very young guy, first grade or so, I used to sneak peeks inside my uncle's stash. This was when the magazine was at its sexiest, early to mid-1960s. It's pretty fascinating, and even useful, to go back into the magazine and take a look at what it presented in its fashion section. The writing was also very good back then. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot worth looking at past the mid-1970s.


----------



## Duvel

Here's one of those weird necktie questions: If you had to choose, would you rather go shorter or longer on how you wear your necktie?

I'm wearing a Resilio today that gives me a smallish knot if I tie it to mid-belt level, but a bigger knot if I tie it just above the belt. The bigger knot looks better with my button-down collar, but I'm not sure about the shorter length. 

Bigger knot, shorter length? Smaller knot, longer length?


----------



## mhj

In my opinion a short necktie is never acceptable. A smaller knot is classic and preferable.



Duvel said:


> Here's one of those weird necktie questions: If you had to choose, would you rather go shorter or longer on how you wear your necktie?
> 
> I'm wearing a Resilio today that gives me a smallish knot if I tie it to mid-belt level, but a bigger knot if I tie it just above the belt. The bigger knot looks better with my button-down collar, but I'm not sure about the shorter length.
> 
> Bigger knot, shorter length? Smaller knot, longer length?


----------



## jimw

"Driving" Shoes

Silly question, but are these styles really only meant as indoor-outdoor slippers, or are they practical for everyday use. I must say, they look comfy (as in the AE model pictured here - )

Jim


----------



## orange fury

With my birthday coming up in less than a month, my parents bought me something I've wanted since I was a kid- a Bean field coat in tan. It came in a couple days ago, and though they're waiting to give it to me until my actual birthday, they (and I) wanted to make sure it fit first. I think it does, but I wanted to run it by you gents first:









I have no experience with these, this is how they're supposed to fit isn't it?


----------



## Himself

jimw said:


> "Driving" Shoes
> 
> Silly question, but are these styles really only meant as indoor-outdoor slippers, or are they practical for everyday use. I must say, they look comfy (as in the AE model pictured here - )
> 
> Jim


OK for casual wear -- maybe anywhere boat shoes are OK, but the drivers would go better with pants other than khakis. The nub soles may not hold up to a lot of walking, and can also be "trippy" on carpet.

The origin of "drivers" was to wear on road trips instead of your hot, clunky wingtips. The slim, flexible slipper design and nub soles aided heel-and-toe pedal operation in your English sports car.


----------



## jimw

I think you've got right size - hangs well on your frame. Remember that this is ostensibly a working coat, so you wouldn't want it to be too slim fitting.

Nice,

jim



orange fury said:


> With my birthday coming up in less than a month, my parents bought me something I've wanted since I was a kid- a Bean field coat in tan. It came in a couple days ago, and though they're waiting to give it to me until my actual birthday, they (and I) wanted to make sure it fit first. I think it does, but I wanted to run it by you gents first:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no experience with these, this is how they're supposed to fit isn't it?


----------



## jimw

2-button sack?

This eBay listing for an Andover SC seems to show a 2 button sack - am I wrong?


----------



## Oldsport

@ jimw - 2 Button, Sack.


----------



## OrdinaryGuy2005

I'd like to buy my first grenadine tie, and will likely purchase one through Chipp Neckwear. Which color would be more of a staple addition to my wardrobe: the standard blue or the navy? I had originally thought the navy, but compared to the blue it looks almost black.


----------



## mjo_1

OrdinaryGuy2005 said:


> I'd like to buy my first grenadine tie, and will likely purchase one through Chipp Neckwear. Which color would be more of a staple addition to my wardrobe: the standard blue or the navy? I had originally thought the navy, but compared to the blue it looks almost black.


I can't believe I've been a member here this long and don't own one of these. Of those I'd go with navy. Wine would also be a solid choice.


----------



## OrdinaryGuy2005

Yep, I've seen them recommended in just about every tie thread I've come across. Might be picking up a dog breed tie from Chipp as well.

Suppose I could always order both ties and decide in person.


----------



## Duvel

Two-button sack.



jimw said:


> 2-button sack?
> 
> This eBay listing for an Andover SC seems to show a 2 button sack - am I wrong?


----------



## WillBarrett

Need some help with a grey wool sweater. I'm ordinarily a fan of crewneck sweaters and would prefer a crewneck - Shetland, ideally - in grey. 

However I may have access to a v-neck from Lord Jeff. Would this be a suitable replacement should it become available?

Thanks in advance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fading Fast

WillBarrett said:


> Need some help with a grey wool sweater. I'm ordinarily a fan of crewneck sweaters and would prefer a crewneck - Shetland, ideally - in grey.
> 
> However I may have access to a v-neck from Lord Jeff. Would this be a suitable replacement should it become available?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It all depends on how close you put the microscope's lens. At a reasonable distance, a Shetland v- or crew-neck serve basically the same purpose - they add a layer of warmth in an, overall, casual style. At a reasonable distance, they look similar and most people not on this sight probably see them as very similar.

Bring the lens in, though, and the v- and crew-necks are different. The crew has, IMHO, a bit more of a casual / collegiate look that - even if you wear it with a tie (and I know this is controversial because, well, we are all insane on this site), will look modestly less dressy than the v-neck. Also, again, with the lens in close, from a functionality perspective, the crew gives a bit more warmth or will fight a wind a bit better as it keeps the chest area full covered.

You need to answer this question - if you want a crew, will you be happy with a v-neck? I have found that, sometimes, opportunity (like yours) forces my hand and I discover something I like that I wouldn't have tried. Conversely, sometimes, I want what I want and anything else will disappoint. If you have a few crewnecks already, I'd encourage you to try one v-neck and see - but again, only you know how passionate you are for the crewneck.

Good luck.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

WillBarrett said:


> and would prefer a crewneck - Shetland, ideally - in grey.


Expanding on (errr, condensing) FF's excellent response you can see the answer to your question above.


----------



## adept

Pardon me for being so late on this, but I would agree, the proportions seem right. I got one of these in chocolate a number of years ago. When I tried it on everything seemed to fit fine, except the sleeves were too long. I called and the rep said to just do a fold-up of the cuffs. Sure enough, this corrected the length, while exposing a band of corduroy...almost seems like they planned it that way...looks very smart.



orange fury said:


> With my birthday coming up in less than a month, my parents bought me something I've wanted since I was a kid- a Bean field coat in tan. It came in a couple days ago, and though they're waiting to give it to me until my actual birthday, they (and I) wanted to make sure it fit first. I think it does, but I wanted to run it by you gents first:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no experience with these, this is how they're supposed to fit isn't it?


----------



## orange fury

adept said:


> Pardon me for being so late on this, but I would agree, the proportions seem right. I got one of these in chocolate a number of years ago. When I tried it on everything seemed to fit fine, except the sleeves were too long. I called and the rep said to just do a fold-up of the cuffs. Sure enough, this corrected the length, while exposing a band of corduroy...almost seems like they planned it that way...looks very smart.


Thanks for the feedback. I've seen the cuffs flipped in all the product photos, and while it doesn't look bad, I have no real desire to wear it like that. Plus, even if I did want to wear it like that, I think the next size up (medium) would be too big everywhere else (I understand it's supposed to be loose, since it's a work jacket, but the small is loose enough on me too add several layers).


----------



## WillBarrett

oxford cloth button down said:


> Expanding on (errr, condensing) FF's excellent response you can see the answer to your question above.


You're right.

And the v-neck was gone this morning anyway. All for the best.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Duvel

OF, this is the way the Bean field jacket should look. In spite of efforts by J. Crew et al to hijack and trim down this iconic peice, the jacket is supposed to look a bit oversized, and in fact, it is that way to accomodate cold-weather layering of Norwegian sweaters, tweed jackets, and the like.


----------



## clark_kent

I'm considering purchasing an 18-wale curduroy from LE. Where does 18-wale stand in the trad arena? Good or bad? Should I go with a smaller wale number?

I will be wearing these "semi-dressy" - casual. They'll be paired with primarily saddle shoes, Oxford / dress shirt, and a sweater. 

Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated


----------



## orange fury

Duvel said:


> OF, this is the way the Bean field jacket should look. In spite of efforts by J. Crew et al to hijack and trim down this iconic peice, the jacket is supposed to look a bit oversized, and in fact, it is that way to accomodate cold-weather layering of Norwegian sweaters, tweed jackets, and the like.


Thanks- I think my biggest concern was sleeve length, the bulkiness im fine with (it's the cotton flannel lined version, so Ill have to layer with it).



clark_kent said:


> I'm considering purchasing an 18-wale curduroy from LE. Where does 18-wale stand in the trad arena? Good or bad? Should I go with a smaller wale number?
> 
> I will be wearing these "semi-dressy" - casual. They'll be paired with primarily saddle shoes, Oxford / dress shirt, and a sweater.
> 
> Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated


That outfit sounds good. Generally, the more narrow the wale, the dressier the cords (though cords in and of themelves are relatively casual). I have a pair of blackwatch 18-wale cords, but TBH I usually reach for other pairs of pants before those.


----------



## ran23

Looking at the Charles Tyrwhitt $29.95 sale catalog. I am too old for their Extra Slim fit, hoping the Slim Fit is equal to tailored or tapered fit elsewhere?? This looks like a good entry level price?


----------



## rmpmcdermott

When is it appropriate to wear black Weejuns? Navy sack blazer and med-grey flannels? I wear my burgundy Weejuns with just about anything, but am having trouble incorporating the black ones.


----------



## Howard

I have a question about overcoats,Why does the length of the coat go below the knees or is that the way it's supposed to be worn?


----------



## xcubbies

Howard said:


> I have a question about overcoats,Why does the length of the coat go below the knees or is that the way it's supposed to be worn?


Howard,
I think it has something to do with your height.


----------



## Oldsport

I wear the CT Slim Fit shirts. They are slimmer in the body, not overly slim. They are definitely tighter in the shoulders and arms. If you are close on arm length, go with the longer length.



ran23 said:


> Looking at the Charles Tyrwhitt $29.95 sale catalog. I am too old for their Extra Slim fit, hoping the Slim Fit is equal to tailored or tapered fit elsewhere?? This looks like a good entry level price?


----------



## ran23

close on arm length?? ON my 38-R jackets I usually have the sleeves taken in 1 1/2 - 2", is that what you mean?


----------



## Oldsport

I normally wear a 33" sleeve, on most shirts. In the CT, I eventually started buying 34" as the 33" wound up too short after a wash or two. So, if you're in between sleeve lengths, I recommend ordering the longer length. BTW, CT are the only dress shirts I wear (other than OCBDs).


----------



## ran23

thank you, I am most comfortable with 15.5 x 33, so 34" is the way to go. I want to get one to test, are most of the shirts consistent in size and shrinkage? (learning so much about clothes at 61 yrs)


----------



## Oldsport

In my opinion, yes. The regular number sizes seem to be consistent. Also, I fave several 'alpha sizes' (s, m, l) and the mediums fit the same in all types (OCBD, washed OCBD, and Poplin). BTW, I was able to search out those 'buy 4 at 29.95' each offers multiple times. I've never paid more than 29.95 for a CT shirt....

BTW, I also buy the CT shirts in 15.5x34, Slim Fit.


----------



## ran23

Thanks much, guess I should check the web site next.


----------



## Squeaky_Alexander

How noticeable is the difference between a 3" and a 3.25" tie? 

I wear 3" now, and have a 3.5" that is unwearable because it looks humongous on me (I'm 135 lbs). Am considering a Chipp tie, but they only produce 3.25, and I have a feeling they will still be large enough to look disproportionate. Hoping somebody might have had experience making this comparison.


----------



## Oldsport

Try to keep tie width proportional to jacket lapel width.



Squeaky_Alexander said:


> How noticeable is the difference between a 3" and a 3.25" tie?
> 
> I wear 3" now, and have a 3.5" that is unwearable because it looks humongous on me (I'm 135 lbs). Am considering a Chipp tie, but they only produce 3.25, and I have a feeling they will still be large enough to look disproportionate. Hoping somebody might have had experience making this comparison.


----------



## Duvel

I think we all have things we sweat and things we don't. Tie width is on my personal list of things I don't, especially when it's a matter of a quarter of an inch. Your own obsessiveness may vary.



Squeaky_Alexander said:


> How noticeable is the difference between a 3" and a 3.25" tie?
> 
> I wear 3" now, and have a 3.5" that is unwearable because it looks humongous on me (I'm 135 lbs). Am considering a Chipp tie, but they only produce 3.25, and I have a feeling they will still be large enough to look disproportionate. Hoping somebody might have had experience making this comparison.


----------



## Howard

xcubbies said:


> Howard,
> I think it has something to do with your height.


I'm 6 feet tall.


----------



## xcubbies

Howard said:


> I'm 6 feet tall.


Okay, then how tall is your coat? Subtract the size of your shoes and you'll have your answer.


----------



## gamma68

Triathlete said:


> Try to keep tie width proportional to jacket lapel width.


This is the best answer to the question regarding tie width.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> I think we all have things we sweat and things we don't. Tie width is on my personal list of things I don't, especially when it's a matter of a quarter of an inch. Your own obsessiveness may vary.


Duvel, my obsessiveness varies over the course of a day!


----------



## Howard

xcubbies said:


> Okay, then how tall is your coat? Subtract the size of your shoes and you'll have your answer.


How do I do that Cubby? My shoe size is 11 and I'm 6 ft tall so I would do 11-6?
That would equal 5.


----------



## xcubbies

I think I forgot to mention that you need to factor in the number of buttons on the coat. If it's a peacoat you don't need to include the decorative extra buttons.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Squeaky_Alexander said:


> How noticeable is the difference between a 3" and a 3.25" tie?
> 
> I wear 3" now, and have a 3.5" that is unwearable because it looks humongous on me (I'm 135 lbs). Am considering a Chipp tie, but they only produce 3.25, and I have a feeling they will still be large enough to look disproportionate. Hoping somebody might have had experience making this comparison.


I am 5' 8", 135lbs, and I prefer 3.25", but will wear a 3", but a 3.5" looks huge and a 2.75" far too thin. Hope this helps!


----------



## Howard

xcubbies said:


> I think I forgot to mention that you need to factor in the number of buttons on the coat. If it's a peacoat you don't need to include the decorative extra buttons.


number of buttons? I think there are about 3 or 4?


----------



## Squeaky_Alexander

oxford cloth button down said:


> I am 5' 8", 135lbs, and I prefer 3.25", but will wear a 3", but a 3.5" looks huge and a 2.75" far too thin. Hope this helps!


Yes, this is perfect. Thanks a bunch!

Having gone through much of my life wearing clothes that were far too big, I've developed a particular neurosis for making sure my purchases are suitable for my body type. And there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of us skinny guys around the board. So I appreciate your feedback.

On an unrelated topic, I recently purchased a J Crew Slim Fit Lambswool Crewneck Sweater. (That seems like an awfully lot of adjectives.) I bought the grey color, and tried it on with my khakis and was unsure whether they were too close in color and whether they would sort of blend together. I tried a google search of what to pair with a grey sweater and stumbled across one of your blog posts containing essentially that same rig! Have you found the grey sweater/khaki pair to work out fine, or perhaps a better pair of slacks to pair with the sweater?


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Squeaky_Alexander said:


> Yes, this is perfect. Thanks a bunch!
> 
> Having gone through much of my life wearing clothes that were far too big, I've developed a particular neurosis for making sure my purchases are suitable for my body type. And there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of us skinny guys around the board. So I appreciate your feedback.
> 
> On an unrelated topic, I recently purchased a J Crew Slim Fit Lambswool Crewneck Sweater. (That seems like an awfully lot of adjectives.) I bought the grey color, and tried it on with my khakis and was unsure whether they were too close in color and whether they would sort of blend together. I tried a google search of what to pair with a grey sweater and stumbled across one of your blog posts containing essentially that same rig! Have you found the grey sweater/khaki pair to work out fine, or perhaps a better pair of slacks to pair with the sweater?


I do see your point about the lack of contrast. However, I like the grey sweater/British khaki chino combo a lot. I also love the look of a grey sweatshirt/chinos.


----------



## xcubbies

It gets complicated if your coat has a zipper, instead of buttons.


----------



## Howard

xcubbies said:


> It gets complicated if your coat has a zipper, instead of buttons.


Do you think buttons are better instead of a zipper?


----------



## Roycru

Howard said:


> Do you think buttons are better instead of a zipper?


I think that it depends on if you are talking about a metal zipper or a plastic zipper, but I'm not sure about that. Somehow, buttons might still be involved, unless they are on old style shoes that have buttons.

The possibility of there sometimes being snaps (with or without zippers or buttons) add additional levels of complexity to actually discovering the answers.


----------



## Fading Fast

oxford cloth button down said:


> I do see your point about the lack of contrast. However, I like the grey sweater/British khaki chino combo a lot. I also love the look of a grey sweatshirt/chinos.


Could not agree more (and it is always fun to agree with OCBD, especially on questions about matching Shetlands and Khakis [or other Ivy classics] as I know I'm on the right side, if I'm on his side). While the contrast is not as great as with others pants-sweaters combo (as, for example, on OCBD's blog page that you reference), it is a very classic look that isn't hurt by the lack of contrast.

More to the point, the lack of contrast, IMHO, is part of its appeal. It is a quiet, elegant look that has enough contrast not to look monochromatic, but by being subtle, it soothes the eye, it doesn't jar it. That's where the elegance, the calmness, the comfortableness comes from - it's a confident outfit that doesn't call attention to itself. It's one of those outfits where people who don't pay attention to what you are wearing think you look nicely dressed (in the sense of "his clothes look good on him") without knowing why.

I wear every version of it (and I'm not kidding - see below for some examples), from light stone with a pearl gray cashmere to British Khaki with charcoal gray (like J.Press' Shaggy Dog) - from I-don't-care-about-them Old Navy chinos with an Old Navy sweatshirt to well-made dress chino with a cashmere cable knit. Other than checking that the tones in the khakis and sweater don't aggressively fight each other (a small difference - i.e., the khakis lean a bit brown in undertone and the sweater has a hint of blue - doesn't matter), you can't go wrong.

From the Fading Fast Archives:

Stone Old Navy (I think, might be J.Crew) chinos and light-gray Old Navy sweatshirt


Five pocket ivory jean with J.Crew mid-gray cashmere


Looks like same five-pocket ivory jean with a summer weight and very light-gray "tennis" sweater


Same jeans again (I clearly wear those too much) with a charcoal Bean Shetland:


Stone chinos, mid-gray cashmere sweater and a light-gray herringbone sport coat


Light gray Izod Polo with cotton-linen, a-bit-darker-than-stone chinos


Okay, that's it - but as you can see, right or wrong, it's a look I wear a lot as I think it has a simple elegance, is pleasing to the eye and is easy to do. I wish I had some examples to show you of my more dressed-up iterations (couldn't find any), but it works equally well with well-tailored chinos and a high-end sweater.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Squeaky_Alexander said:


> Yes, this is perfect. Thanks a bunch!
> 
> Having gone through much of my life wearing clothes that were far too big, I've developed a particular neurosis for making sure my purchases are suitable for my body type


I've had the opposite problem. I'm a bigger guy. 5'11", 200lbs. And I was often discouraged by how everything got so slim (these were my pre-Ivy days). Skinny suits do not look good on big guys. And when I started wearing sack jackets I'd often (unknowingly) get them a size too small because I was so used to massive waist suppression going on at the time (and still going on today). Jackets that fit felt too big. But a buddy of mine at Press made me buy the proper size many years ago and just told me to live with it for a while. I can't thank him enough. Properly sized clothes are the foundation to everything style-related in my book. It sounds like common sense, but it's really not if you look around.

Also, on the subject of ties and lapels, since I'm a bit broad I usually go 3.5 or 3.25 on lapels and the same on ties. I actually prefer 3.5, though I think some would find that on the very wide end of the Ivy spectrum.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Fading Fast said:


> Could not agree more (and it is always fun to agree with OCBD, especially on questions about matching Shetlands and Khakis [or other Ivy classics] as I know I'm on the right side, if I'm on his side). While the contrast is not as great as with others pants-sweaters combo (as, for example, on OCBD's blog page that you reference), it is a very classic look that isn't hurt by the lack of contrast.
> 
> More to the point, the lack of contrast, IMHO, is part of its appeal. It is a quiet, elegant look that has enough contrast not to look monochromatic, but by being subtle, it soothes the eye, it doesn't jar it. That's where the elegance, the calmness, the comfortableness comes from - it's a confident outfit that doesn't call attention to itself. It's one of those outfits where people who don't pay attention to what you are wearing think you look nicely dressed (in the sense of "his clothes look good on him") without knowing why.
> 
> I wear every version of it (and I'm not kidding - see below for some examples), from light stone with a pearl gray cashmere to British Khaki with charcoal gray (like J.Press' Shaggy Dog) - from I-don't-care-about-them Old Navy chinos with an Old Navy sweatshirt to well-made dress chino with a cashmere cable knit. Other than checking that the tones in the khakis and sweater don't aggressively fight each other (a small difference - i.e., the khakis lean a bit brown in undertone and the sweater has a hint of blue - doesn't matter), you can't go wrong.
> 
> From the Fading Fast Archives:
> 
> Same jeans again (I clearly wear those too much) with a charcoal Bean Shetland:


Now that's a really smart look.


----------



## xcubbies

I think that it really comes down to how long your overcoat is. I wouldn't recommend a zipper on a coat that came down to your knees, for example.


----------



## doomx

Any thoughts of how this would work as a sports coat? I can imagine wearing this with forest green cords, olive chinos, gray/taupe/brown wool trousers. However, I cannot imagine what shirts/ties I can wear with this combo. By the way this is a Southwick 3/2 roll jacket.


----------



## doomx

I am a similar height/weight. What is "proper size" for you?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

doomx said:


> Any thoughts of how this would work as a sports coat? I can imagine wearing this with forest green cords, olive chinos, gray/taupe/brown wool trousers. However, I cannot imagine what shirts/ties I can wear with this combo. By the way this is a Southwick 3/2 roll jacket.


Light blue shirt...when does that _not_ work? An ecru shirt would look sort of weak next to a jacket that is, overall, somewhat neutral. Dark blue or brown silk knit tie. I'm wingin' it here. I don't like that tie; too many understated colors all together don't appeal to me. The shirt above seems OK, but there needs to be a focal point, and a light blue tie isn't it (plus that woven tie seems a little suit-y for a gun check jacket).


----------



## Oldsport

I concur. That tie 'to me' is just awful and I can't imagine anything it would look good with, except maybe a washing machine or used car sales outfit. A Maroon, Navy, Black Knit would make a huge difference. Even a Grenadine in those same colors would be great (add texture). I'm not crazy about the spread collar either, with that coat or most any sport coat. I'd go with a White or Blue OCBD or Bytton Down Collar Pinpoint Oxford. I would wear that jacket as an odd jacket in a heartbeat.



doomx said:


> Any thoughts of how this would work as a sports coat? I can imagine wearing this with forest green cords, olive chinos, gray/taupe/brown wool trousers. However, I cannot imagine what shirts/ties I can wear with this combo. By the way this is a Southwick 3/2 roll jacket.


----------



## Howard

Roycru said:


> I think that it depends on if you are talking about a metal zipper or a plastic zipper, but I'm not sure about that. Somehow, buttons might still be involved, unless they are on old style shoes that have buttons.
> 
> The possibility of there sometimes being snaps (with or without zippers or buttons) add additional levels of complexity to actually discovering the answers.


I think I prefer buttons cause zippers I have trouble with.


----------



## Howard

xcubbies said:


> I think that it really comes down to how long your overcoat is. I wouldn't recommend a zipper on a coat that came down to your knees, for example.


I don't really know how long my overcoat is.


----------



## xcubbies

Howard said:


> I don't really know how long my overcoat is.


When the temperature drops well below zero a zipper can be a liability. That's one of the reasons we tend to use button flies here in Maine. If a zipper freezes it can be very unpleasant. Let's exclude zippers from the conversation, at least for now, and get back to the length of your coat, the original question. It would be helpful to categorize the types of winter coats currently available on the market. (As a minor diversion, picture photographs of Soviet soldiers in their great coats. I don't think a coat can be too long, if it is really cold, excluding, of course, if it is so long that you trip over it...but that doesn't seem to be an issue for you, given your height.) Are you still working the shopping carts? If so, you might want to try an army/navy store to see if they have any captured Soviet overcoats.


----------



## orange fury

Wanted to get opinions on these two hats I found at a local shop. Both are Jonathan Richards with Donegal Tweed tagging.

crushable bucket:




flat cap:




i need to get something before cold weather gets here, but wanted others to take a look. I'm still planning on getting another Stetson to wear with suits, but I needed something less refined for wear with a sportcoat


----------



## eagle2250

^^

The "crushable bucket is a better look, but the flat cap, I suspect, will prove more convenient as you are traveling in your car. At least that has been my experience wearing various fedoras vs my Ivey caps.


----------



## AldenPyle

Howard said:


> I don't really know how long my overcoat is.


Longer than the Colbert Report was on the air. Bravo.


----------



## fred johnson

OF,
Get both, you will wear them both.


----------



## ran23

OF, I wish I had both to choose.


----------



## Howard

> When the temperature drops well below zero a zipper can be a liability. That's one of the reasons we tend to use button flies here in Maine. If a zipper freezes it can be very unpleasant.


I agree, zippers can tend to be a pain in the ass sometimes.



> Are you still working the shopping carts? If so, you might want to try an army/navy store to see if they have any captured Soviet overcoats.


Yes I'm still working on the carts.


----------



## clark_kent

Evening, gents.

I'm considering buying a pre-owned Harris Tweed off of eBay. Stafford is the maker and the tag states "tailored in the USA"; seller's asking $45.00 + $8.85 shipping so $53.85 total! Is this too much for a used HT?

pics:

https://postimg.org/image/7cae412yh/

https://postimg.org/image/lwrgyuxx5/

https://postimg.org/image/xzwsmf8zd/

https://postimg.org/image/s7wof9z5l/

https://postimg.org/image/y7kfixjy1/

https://postimg.org/image/4d3hgwth5/

https://postimg.org/image/a2jq17znd/

https://postimg.org/image/3z25hb9dl/


----------



## Duvel

Clark, save your money for a 3 roll 2 tweed on the Ask Andy Trad exchange thread. Even if you have to wait a while before one shows up, you'll like it more in the long run. You'll spend as much or maybe even less, and you shouldn't necessarily make "Harris Tweed" a deal breaker in such a purchase.


----------



## clark_kent

Duvel said:


> Clark, save your money for a 3 roll 2 tweed on the Ask Andy Trad exchange thread. Even if you have to wait a while before one shows up, you'll like it more in the long run. You'll spend as much or maybe even less, and you shouldn't necessarily make "Harris Tweed" a deal breaker in such a purchase.


Thanks, Duvel.

It's not a problem; I'll just wait.

Can you please explain what's meant by a 3 roll 2? I did a quick search after reading that line in your post, and it's in regards to the buttons, I guess?


----------



## Duvel

@OF, I don't know, I'm too distracted by the young lady with the hair tucked becomingly behind one ear, in the background. At the same time, I'm wondering if anybody has told you how much you look like Peter Townsend.


----------



## Duvel

@clark, search also 3/2 roll, or peruse my tumblr site for examples or any number of images left by more esteemable members of this forum.


----------



## clark_kent

I think I get it now. So essentially, 3 roll 2 just means there's a "button hole" in the lapel, right? 2 buttons on the front + a cut / opening on the lapel for a button?


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

clark_kent said:


> I think I get it now. So essentially, 3 roll 2 just means there's a "button hole" in the lapel, right? 2 buttons on the front + a cut / opening on the lapel for a button?


It means there are three buttons, and three holes, but the lapel rolls to the same place it would on a two button jacket. So rather than being a true three button jacket, it's more like a two button plus one more.

Some people leave off the hidden button, because they worry their cleaner will press it so hard that it leaves a mark on the other side of the lapel.

In terms of trad detailing, for me, soft shoulder beats everything else. And I don't think I'd pay $50 for Stafford.


----------



## Fading Fast

What's been fun is watching Clark not ask, and none of us address, the unspoken question that has to be in Clark's head - "what exactly is so important about this button hole that isn't used and that some even take off the button for?" 

Can't say I blame him - it is the ultimate inside baseball of the Ivy clothing world. Why it is so important, why it makes such a difference is easy to understand if you've lived it or if, over time, you have absorbed the Ivy ethos / aesthetic of dressing / living. But if not, it is like trying to explain when to bunt or how to execute a squeeze play to someone new to baseball - good luck with that. 

Clark, I have to focus on work now, or I'd take a stab at it, but as Duvel says, if you Google it - you will find more intelligent explanations than I could give anyway. In some ways, think of yourself as Indian Jones and you are about to pick the icon up off the stone - you are right there, right at the font of knowledge, you are about to hold the Holy of Holies. Like Indy, you might not yet understand it all, but you know you are about to touch something meaningful. Good luck in your quest.


----------



## fred johnson

Duvel said:


> Clark, save your money for a 3 roll 2 tweed on the Ask Andy Trad exchange thread. Even if you have to wait a while before one shows up, you'll like it more in the long run. You'll spend as much or maybe even less, and you shouldn't necessarily make "Harris Tweed" a deal breaker in such a purchase.


I would, respectfully disagree and say that he should not make getting a 3 roll 2 be a deal breaker either, if a nice, well fitting tweed is actually what he is seeking.


----------



## xcubbies

fred johnson said:


> I would, respectfully disagree and say that he should not make getting a 3 roll 2 be a deal breaker either, if a nice, well fitting tweed is actually what he is seeking.


I think fit is the most critical element in buying a suit/sportcoat,blazer. And while Harris Tweed is a storied brand, one should be aware of the construction of the item, as well. Though I cannot comment definitively on the Stafford brand, from JC Penney, it would be wrong to assume that a Stafford Harris Tweed is at the same level as the same tweed on a jacket sold by J. Press. I learned this lesson myself the hard way.


----------



## Duvel

Is anyone a fan of women's trad-like blogs? I occasionally stumble on one I like via my tumblr romps. This one comes close to trad for women, in my opinion, but I mostly visit it for the beautiful model. I think this dear lady exudes elegance and beauty.

https://styleatacertainage.tumblr.com/


----------



## Duvel

Anyone? 

Anyone?

Bueller?


----------



## Duvel

FIt depends on construction, for sure. This is why I prefer, and recommend, the 3/2 sack, whenever possible.

I have a few 2-button darted jackets that I like quite well, but I do not love their fit the way I love the fit of my 3/2 sacks.



xcubbies said:


> I think fit is the most critical element in buying a suit/sportcoat,blazer. And while Harris Tweed is a storied brand, one should be aware of the construction of the item, as well. Though I cannot comment definitively on the Stafford brand, from JC Penney, it would be wrong to assume that a Stafford Harris Tweed is at the same level as the same tweed on a jacket sold by J. Press. I learned this lesson myself the hard way.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Duvel said:


> FIt depends on construction, for sure. This is why I prefer, and recommend, the 3/2 sack, whenever possible.
> 
> I have a few 2-button darted jackets that I like quite well, but I do not love their fit the way I love the fit of my 3/2 sacks.


It's also hard to find a bad 3/2 sack, you know? Very few of them with bad shoulders, tragic button stances, or troublesome gorges.

And I followed that tumblr just now, but I haven't really scrolled through it. I like the idea - so many women's blogs (and, yes, a lot of the menswear blogs I ignore) are just about buying a lot of cheap clothes.


----------



## fred johnson

I have a few 2-button darted jackets that I like quite well, but I do not love their fit the way I love the fit of my 3/2 sacks.[/QUOTE]

Actually my favorite jacket is a 3/2 tweed by Normal Hilton for the old New York A&F, from back in the days when they sold such good menswear. What I like the most about it is the side vents which I do prefer to a single vent, hook or otherwise. Hilton was one of the few who would do a 3/2 sack this way and I wish I could find more of these.


----------



## Howard

I always wondered as to why when you buy a new coat or jacket, they store more buttons in the pocket, is it because if your button starts to wear and tear you can repair it easily right away?


----------



## MythReindeer

Howard said:


> I always wondered as to why when you buy a new coat or jacket, they store more buttons in the pocket, is it because if your button starts to wear and tear you can repair it easily right away?


I think that's the case, Howard. It's nice because if a button falls off or breaks, you have a replacement that matches the ones still on the coat.


----------



## Duvel

I keep getting these reminders from Brooks Brothers about upcoming sales. I keep looking at my zero balance, i.e., I have owed nothing for months and months, on my Brooks credit card. I keep thinking, meh. 

Seriously, aside from the must-iron ocbds, what's left there to get worked up about? Am I alone in feeling I'd rather spend my hard-earned cash these days at O'Connell's, Press, or even Bean? Or how about some really great vintage comic books?


----------



## NicholasJenkins

Right you are. O'Connell's is such an intelligently curated store. It has a soul and a definite point of view. Brooks Brothers is ever trying to Get on Trend while not wholly alienating its traditional customers--consequently, it appeals to no one.


----------



## xcubbies

Howard said:


> I always wondered as to why when you buy a new coat or jacket, they store more buttons in the pocket, is it because if your button starts to wear and tear you can repair it easily right away?


I'm pretty sure you're right about the spare buttons. As I don't wear a pocket square I find the upper pocket on sport jackets to be particularly useful for storing the spare buttons.


----------



## Duvel

It is pretty nice of them to do that, isn't it. Now if only they would include a needle and some thread.



Howard said:


> I always wondered as to why when you buy a new coat or jacket, they store more buttons in the pocket, is it because if your button starts to wear and tear you can repair it easily right away?


----------



## PapaD

*how's this look to you?*

Hello! I eagerly nabbed this J Press 3 roll 2 tweed coat from eBay (it even came with an old Harvard-Yale ice hockey game ticket stub in the pocket). Hoping this would be my first trad prized possession (not counting OCBDs at least). However I'm not sure I like the look. The size seems right---i.e, the shoulders fit well and the chest seems to lie well--however the coat seems to look "big." Is this because 
1) my tastes have been perverted by the current trimmer and slimmer look, and I just need to "embrace the trad" or
2) I should have the coat tailored to make it fit me better or 
3) something else

Any thoughts appreciated.


----------



## Orgetorix

Nice purchase! I think the shoulders and chest look good. The waist fit is well within the normal range for classic trad, but you could also definitely have it taken in a bit. Just keep in mind it will always have a different silhouette than a darted jacket, especially recent slim-cut ones. But you can do a fair bit of waist suppression on a sack and still look good; that's how I prefer mine.


----------



## Duvel

PapaD, it's hard to tell with your arms held that way but it looks like you might need to take the sleeves up just a little. Other than that, it looks good to me.


----------



## PapaD

Orgetorix said:


> Nice purchase! I think the shoulders and chest look good. The waist fit is well within the normal range for classic trad, but you could also definitely have it taken in a bit. Just keep in mind it will always have a different silhouette than a darted jacket, especially recent slim-cut ones. But you can do a fair bit of waist suppression on a sack and still look good; that's how I prefer mine.





Duvel said:


> PapaD, it's hard to tell with your arms held that way but it looks like you might need to take the sleeves up just a little. Other than that, it looks good to me.


Thanks very much Orgetorix and Duvel!

I think I will take it in at waist a bit. At this point, returning the coat would only net me about $35 (after shipping back) so I think I'll stick with it. I think it is also a bit longer than what I am used to, however I think having the jacket shortened an inch or 2 would probably be expensive and throw off the proportions. I will just embrace the trad!

And yes, the sleeves are indeed a touch long (good eye). Eventually I will talk wife into taking pictures for me, but she still thinks posting pics for "my internet friends" is silly (and she wasn't around anyway .

As a new poster I should also add that I am a big fan of the forum, which I have been following for years now!


----------



## Duvel

Jackets can be a bit longer in the TNSIL style, in my opinion. Depends, of course. You don't want it too long. But generally a longer length, as long as it doesn't extend past the tip of your thumb, is very acceptable and good-looking, and you're right, it is going counter to trends (but that's a good thing).


----------



## FiscalDean

Duvel said:


> you're right, it is going counter to trends (but that's a good thing).


+1, the current "fashion" of short jackets is just plain silly, IMHO.


----------



## WillBarrett

Any thoughts on basic cuff length on a pair of twill pants?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sskim3

PapaD said:


> .... Eventually I will talk wife into taking pictures for me, *but she still thinks posting pics for "my internet friends" is silly* (and she wasn't around anyway .
> 
> As a new poster I should also add that I am a big fan of the forum, which I have been following for years now!


My SWMBO still doesn't get it either. She is fascinated by my participation in the forums. When I told her, I had over 1K posts, she rolled her eyes. LOL

Now I partake in other forums. And in one of them, I have been getting packages and she just doesn't understand.

Regarding the jacket, I like it. Minor waist suppression should be good and its a great start for a Trad wardrobe.


----------



## Howard

MythReindeer said:


> I think that's the case, Howard. It's nice because if a button falls off or breaks, you have a replacement that matches the ones still on the coat.


I like that addition.


----------



## Howard

Duvel said:


> It is pretty nice of them to do that, isn't it. Now if only they would include a needle and some thread.


I know right Duvel, It would be nice.


----------



## orange fury

Question about Aran/Irish Fisherman sweaters. I've wanted one for a long time - specifically, the LL Bean one, but I've never pulled the trigger on it. Though I like the LLB one, I want one that's more "authentic" I guess. Ive been looking at this one from Aran Sweater Market (as endorsed by Muffy):
https://www.aransweatermarket.com/heavyweight-traditional-aran-wool-sweater-beige-with-natural-fleck

The price is great, but any opinions on this? Also, if not this one, does anyone have any suggestions for other ones? When I think of the Norwegian sweater I think of LLB, and when I think of Shetland sweaters I think of O'Connell's- I guess I'm looking for the Aran sweater equivalent.


----------



## L-feld

PapaD said:


> Thanks very much Orgetorix and Duvel!
> 
> I think I will take it in at waist a bit. At this point, returning the coat would only net me about $35 (after shipping back) so I think I'll stick with it. I think it is also a bit longer than what I am used to, however I think having the jacket shortened an inch or 2 would probably be expensive and throw off the proportions. I will just embrace the trad!
> 
> And yes, the sleeves are indeed a touch long (good eye). Eventually I will talk wife into taking pictures for me, but she still thinks posting pics for "my internet friends" is silly (and she wasn't around anyway .
> 
> As a new poster I should also add that I am a big fan of the forum, which I have been following for years now!


PapaD, I notice that you're in the DC area. If you're looking to build a collection of TNSIL jackets, you should consider making an appointment with CMDC.

Or if you feel like making the trip to Baltimore, my wife's antique store has a stock of vintage 3/2 sacks in sizes from 40R to 48L for very reasonable prices, as well as other tradly clothing items. If you come by on a Saturday or Sunday, I can meet you and pin the waist so you can get an idea of what the jackets might look like post-alteration.


----------



## Duvel

OF, for what it's worth, my opinion is that the LLB is authentic. It seems so to me, at least. Made in Ireland (although who knows what that really means). I would stay away from this year's loden, though, as they tried to make it a donegal loden and the color specks make it look off. Go for the natural, unless you can get an unspeckled older model loden.


----------



## adept

What do you call a tie that may be silk, or a blend, but is not smooth, but rather a courser texture? I have a few and have shown a PRL in the other Trad forum. Thanks.


----------



## adept

Perhaps it is just considered a 'wool' tie...?


----------



## Fading Fast

adept said:


> What do you call a tie that may be silk, or a blend, but is not smooth, but rather a courser texture? I have a few and have shown a PRL in the other Trad forum. Thanks.


If you show a picture here, that would help, but one thought is it might be what I believe is called a "raw silk," which is a silk woven in such a way that it has a rough, nubby texture. Or, as adept says, it could be a silk-wool blend - I have a few and they are closer to wool than silk in feel.


----------



## ran23

when you talk about the 'Red Label JAB', is that also for trousers? I found some brown herringbone wool flannels that feel great. So how old is the red label?? 
I also did a search for how old the label is, not much luck.


----------



## Duvel

What's _your_ Brooks Brothers story?


----------



## adept

Fading Fast said:


> If you show a picture here, that would help, but one thought is it might be what I believe is called a "raw silk," which is a silk woven in such a way that it has a rough, nubby texture. Or, as adept says, it could be a silk-wool blend - I have a few and they are closer to wool than silk in feel.


Thanks, I'll see what I can put together...


----------



## Fading Fast

Hi, has anyone purchased anything from the North Sea Clothing Company? I am thinking about getting my girlfriend's father this sweater (link and photo below) for Christmas. Thank you for any color, etc.


----------



## August West

i recently picked up an O'Connell's unlined OCBD. The care instructions state Machine Wash warm, tumble dry low, *cool iron*. The cool iron part is what concerns me.I could be wrong, but I think this differs from my BB, Mercer etc. OCBDs, which I always have commercially laundered without incident.

Thoughts on having this shirt laundered at the dry cleaners?


----------



## Fading Fast

August West said:


> i recently picked up an O'Connell's unlined OCBD. The care instructions state Machine Wash warm, tumble dry low, *cool iron*. The cool iron part is what concerns me.I could be wrong, but I think this differs from my BB, Mercer etc. OCBDs, which I always have commercially laundered without incident.
> 
> Thoughts on having this shirt laundered at the dry cleaners?


Please wait for others to reply as I don't own an O'Connell OCBD (but own and have owned a silly stupid amount of OCBDs from many, many different makers over many decades), but part of the appeal of an OCBD, writ large, is that it is the offensive lineman of shirts. It plays every down, takes a beating, doesn't get a lot of attention from the training staff and simply gets on the field for the next game without complaining.

An OCBD shouldn't need special care - wash, dry, steam or iron or just hang, done at home or at a commercial launderer - all should work (obviously, depending on the amount of pressed look you want), but I don't want to have to think about "tumble dry low," "lay flat," "cool iron only," or having to have a discussion with my dry cleaner about my OCBD - just hand it over and get it back in a few days.

Rant over - again, please wait for others who have owned O'Connell OCBDs to reply as I wouldn't want any of my stupidity hurting your shirt.


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## August West

Thanks for your reply Fading. I couldn't agree with you more on all points, and your analogy is spot on. The material though isn't your typical bulletproof heavyweight type OCBD, it's seems to be of a finer weave almost closer to a pinpoint.


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## Duvel

Is it a pinpoint, then? All cotton? Even with my pinpoint Brooks, I use a warm-to-hot iron, set to the cotton setting. I'd launder as usual, although my usual does NOT include warm wash or tumble dry. I would recommend cold wash, hang dry, and warm iron.


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## August West

Duvel said:


> Is it a pinpoint, then? All cotton? Even with my pinpoint Brooks, I use a warm-to-hot iron, set to the cotton setting. I'd launder as usual, although my usual does NOT include warm wash or tumble dry. I would recommend cold wash, hang dry, and warm iron.


It's definitely an OCBD. The web description explains the shirt better than I did initially "The long staple cotton is slightly less weighty than an economy 'beefy' oxford cloth, extraordinarily comfortable." Home laundering is something I'd prefer to avoid, though I realize this is heresy to many here.

https://www.oconnellsclothing.com/O-C-Unlined-and-Unfused-Oxford-Cloth-Button-Down-Shirt-Blue.html


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## Duvel

That looks like a lovely shirt. I might have to skip my periodic purchase of beefy economy (LOL!) ocbds and give one or two of these a try instead.


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## WillBarrett

Need some advice here. I'll be reading a passage from scripture during our church's annual Lessons and Carols service. This time of year I tend to wear flannels, suede saddle oxfords and camel hair/tweed, but in this case I'm wondering if a suit is appropriate. Thoughts? 

To paint a picture, the church is large, Protestant Episcopal. Sort of old South in manners and style of dress.


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## Brigadier Cheape

Sounds like you prefer the jacket and odd trouser look but want to be a bit more formal. Have you considered swapping the sport coat for a blazer and going with calf or cordovan shoes? 


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## rmpmcdermott

August West said:


> i recently picked up an O'Connell's unlined OCBD. The care instructions state Machine Wash warm, tumble dry low, *cool iron*. The cool iron part is what concerns me.I could be wrong, but I think this differs from my BB, Mercer etc. OCBDs, which I always have commercially laundered without incident.
> 
> Thoughts on having this shirt laundered at the dry cleaners?


Just shake it out and hang it up immediately after you take it out of the dryer. Isn't it decidedly ivy to have a few wrinkles in your OCBD?

Seriously, though, I'd tend to agree with Fading Fast and the others. A warm iron shouldn't do any damage. But if you're worried you can always email O'Connells and ask. They're very helpful.


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## Natty Beau

IMHO a person appearing in front of a congregation should only worry about out dressing the officiant. If he's wearing a suit or clerical vestments, I think a suit would be perfectly appropriate for your role.


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## WillBarrett

Thanks, all. Suit it is.

Meanwhile, can anyone identify this model of AE loafers? 


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## SlideGuitarist

This is a rather pathetic question: I like Bill's British khaki color enough to have several pairs, but I have trouble matching socks to that shade. Anyone else share this preference, and have ideas about which tan socks best match them?


----------



## FLMike

SlideGuitarist said:


> This is a rather pathetic question: I like Bill's British khaki color enough to have several pairs, but I have trouble matching socks to that shade. Anyone else share this preference, and have ideas about which tan socks best match them?


Not a pathetic question. I, too, have some Bill's in British khaki and I usually wear BB tan bird's eye crew socks, as follows......

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Cott...dwvar_136D_Color=BLCK&contentpos=15&cgid=0226

IF I wear socks at all, that is. Big if.


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## Youthful Repp-robate

SlideGuitarist said:


> This is a rather pathetic question: I like Bill's British khaki color enough to have several pairs, but I have trouble matching socks to that shade. Anyone else share this preference, and have ideas about which tan socks best match them?


Not wearing tan socks is the best solution. If it's so important that you can't wear mildly interesting socks (I'm not saying you need to wear pink argyles, but maybe olive or wine or yellow), then it's probably not the occasion for chinos.

The Ivy Heyday answer is to do an off-white wool athletic sock, but I'm not cool enough for that.

Or, if you feel you must, try a birdseye or herringbone or something in two shades of tan.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Not wearing tan socks is the best solution. If it's so important that you can't wear mildly interesting socks (I'm not saying you need to wear pink argyles, but maybe olive or wine or yellow), then it's probably not the occasion for chinos.
> 
> The Ivy Heyday answer is to do an off-white wool athletic sock, but I'm not cool enough for that.
> 
> Or, if you feel you must, try a birdseye or herringbone or something in two shades of tan.


Well, no, I wasn't looking for plain tan socks. Ick! I just wanted to match any tan in the pattern to the slightly mustardy British khaki shade. I do have pink argyles (and Wigwams), by the way.


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## Youthful Repp-robate

SlideGuitarist said:


> Well, no, I wasn't looking for plain tan socks. Ick! I just wanted to match any tan in the pattern to the slightly mustardy British khaki shade. I do have pink argyles (and Wigwams), by the way.


Oh, thank goodness. I haven't found many patterned socks with a british tan component - most of the ones that include a tan shade tend to be more of a regular "khaki" color. But I don't really worry about socks picking up on my trousers - they have to co-ordinate with the trousers and the shoes, and I like picking up a color from the top half, but even that's not essential.


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## Duvel

Slide is right. Don't match your socks to your pants. I hardly ever do, except when wearing a suit. Otherwise, I match socks to colors in my shirt, belt, jacket, or tie.The color will be coordinated, in other words, but it won't match the pants.

I sometimes do the off-white wool athletic sock (Wigwam Huskys!) depending on the weather (they are very warm socks!), the color of the shoe (never with black!), and the context (workplace or casual?).

Reasons for not matching: One, as Slide says, it's boring. Two, it's nearly impossible. You'll never find exact matches between trouser color and sock color.



SlideGuitarist said:


> This is a rather pathetic question: I like Bill's British khaki color enough to have several pairs, but I have trouble matching socks to that shade. Anyone else share this preference, and have ideas about which tan socks best match them?


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Duvel said:


> Slide is right. Don't match your socks to your pants. I hardly ever do, except when wearing a suit. Otherwise, I match socks to colors in my shirt, belt, jacket, or tie.The color will be coordinated, in other words, but it won't match the pants.
> 
> I sometimes do the off-white wool athletic sock (Wigwam Huskys!) depending on the weather (they are very warm socks!), the color of the shoe (never with black!), and the context (workplace or casual?).
> 
> Reasons for not matching: One, as Slide says, it's boring. Two, it's nearly impossible. You'll never find exact matches between trouser color and sock color.


Of course you're right (starting my posting with "Of course you're right" excuses anything negative I then say, right?), but GoldToe's "dust" color (horrible name, but a good translation of "khaki") matches the usual khaki color. I don't wear the plain (!) socks, just the argyles with dust as the ground color, when I can't think of anything better.

However, the British khaki color is pungent enough (I think it's called "moutarde" in French) that it's probably hopeless to try and match it, and I should just go for the complete contrast. They are chinos, after all.


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## Duvel

Argyle is always a great choice!


----------



## Charles Dana

SlideGuitarist said:


> However, the British khaki color is pungent enough (I think it's called "moutarde" in French) that it's probably hopeless to try and match it, and I should just go for the complete contrast. They are chinos, after all.


Definitely go for the stark contrast between your socks and your chinos and even your odd wool trousers, at least if your shoes will be loafers. That's the Cary Grant look, you know. He tended to wear darker odd trousers, light-colored socks, and loafers.

I have some Bill's chamois cloth chinos in British khaki. While I really like how they provide a welcome variation in my large collection of stone and tan khakis, I agree that pairing up socks with them can be tricky. So just throw in the towel and do the Cary Grant.


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## Duvel

Well said, and great advice!



Charles Dana said:


> Definitely go for the stark contrast between your socks and your chinos and even your odd wool trousers, at least if your shoes will be loafers. That's the Cary Grant look, you know. He tended to wear darker odd trousers, light-colored socks, and loafers.
> 
> I have some Bill's chamois cloth chinos in British khaki. While I really like how they provide a welcome variation in my large collection of stone and tan khakis, I agree that pairing up socks with them can be tricky. So just throw in the towel and do the Cary Grant.


----------



## Charles Dana

August West said:


> i recently picked up an O'Connell's unlined OCBD. The care instructions state Machine Wash warm, tumble dry low, *cool iron*. The cool iron part is what concerns me.I could be wrong, but I think this differs from my BB, Mercer etc. OCBDs, which I always have commercially laundered without incident.
> 
> Thoughts on having this shirt laundered at the dry cleaners?


A lot of people routinely take their best broadcloth dress shirts to the dry cleaners. If dry cleaners are perfectly capable of laundering and pressing broadcloth shirts without causing them to disintegrate, then they can handle any OCBD, even a non-beefy one.

As for doing it yourself at home: If my iron--set on warm--refrains from scorching my lightweight broadcloth and linen shirts to hell and back--and it refrains quite nicely--then it's not going to damage an OCBD, beefy or otherwise.

Disclaimer: The above are general observations. I do not own one of the unlined OCBDs from O'Connell's.

As long as your iron is on "Warm" and not "Keep Fire Extinguisher Handy" you'll be OK.


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## fred johnson

SlideGuitarist said:


> This is a rather pathetic question: I like Bill's British khaki color enough to have several pairs, but I have trouble matching socks to that shade. Anyone else share this preference, and have ideas about which tan socks best match them?


 Yellow socks go with everything.


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## orange fury

Cold weather is finally kicking in, and since I went down a hat size and had to get rid of most of my hats, my head is cold. I asked about this hat by Jonathan Richards last week:


Donegal tagging inside:


im thinking about picking it up this week, but Ive never heard of JR before finding this in a British goods shop (the owner spoke highly of it and mentioned they had to order directly from Ireland for them, but they only carried a few hat brands). Point being, is there any other brands of hats i should be looking at for a tweed bucket-ish hat instead of JR?


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## Fading Fast

OF, how did you go down a hat size? You are way too young for the major skeletal changes that happen with age (and I have no idea if that happens to the head anyway). 

I don't know the answer to your question as I am not a hat guy, but that hat looks very nice on you.


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## orange fury

Fading Fast said:


> OF, how did you go down a hat size? You are way too young for the major skeletal changes that happen with age (and I have no idea if that happens to the head anyway).
> 
> I don't know the answer to your question as I am not a hat guy, but that hat looks very nice on you.


Sorry, I should've said a 1/8 size (7 3/8 down to 7 1/4)- i meant that I went down a step in sizing. It was a combination of my weight loss a couple years ago and starting to shave my head about a year ago that caused it. The 7 3/8 was on the verge of being too big when I had them, so while I could've added padding to the sweatband on a few hats, they just seemed proportionally off once I solidly went to 7 1/4, so I opted to sell all of them and start over with my collection


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## FLMike

orange fury said:


> Cold weather is finally kicking in, and since I went down a hat size and had to get rid of most of my hats, my head is cold. I asked about this hat by Jonathan Richards last week:


OF, I'm not a hat guy so I can't help you, unfortunately. However, for some reason this picture makes me think of Inspector Gadget.


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## Duvel

Oh, I'm so excited. We're making our second pilgrimage to the LL Bean Freeport store this weekend. What's really great is we're staying in a hotel right downtown, so no parking issues, etc. Woo hoo. I've started a list. Lambswool v-neck sweaters. More flannel shirts? Socks? Scarves? Anything else I should be considering?


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## Brigadier Cheape

Lobster Roll...


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## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Oh, I'm so excited. We're making our second pilgrimage to the LL Bean Freeport store this weekend. What's really great is we're staying in a hotel right downtown, so no parking issues, etc. Woo hoo. I've started a list. Lambswool v-neck sweaters. More flannel shirts? Socks? Scarves? Anything else I should be considering?


Sounds like a fun time - enjoy. If you get a chance check out these Chukkas as I'd love your opinion if they offer value as a reasonably priced desert boot:

https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/78302?feat=506798-GN3&page=men-s-kennebec-casual-chukka-boots

Have a great time.


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## Duvel

Of course! But not at Bean. Best place for that--outside Freeport a ways but worth the drive--is Moody's Diner in Waldoboro.



Brigadier Cheape said:


> Lobster Roll...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Duvel

I will do that. Thanks.



Fading Fast said:


> Sounds like a fun time - enjoy. If you get a chance check out these Chukkas as I'd love your opinion if they offer value as a reasonably priced desert boot:
> 
> https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/78302?feat=506798-GN3&page=men-s-kennebec-casual-chukka-boots
> 
> Have a great time.


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## Duvel

I'm dressing nicely for the air travel, by the way. I just wanted to assure everyone that this will be so.


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## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> I'm dressing nicely for the air travel, by the way. I just wanted to assure everyone that this will be so.


Hope you plan to see more of Maine while you are there - beautiful state.


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## Duvel

Her folks live in the Durham area. We're splitting our time between that part, Freeport, and Portland. We've been there together once before, a couple of summers ago, and her parents did a great job taking us all over the place (best destinations were a peer where we ate lobster minutes out of the water, and Moody's Diner). I agree--it's a beautiful state.



Fading Fast said:


> Hope you plan to see more of Maine while you are there - beautiful state.


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## August West

Orvis Ultimate Khakis question; Can the seat be taken in on these? The waist doesn't appear to be alterable which surprises me based on the price point, so I'm guessing that the seat may not be as well?


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## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Her folks live in the Durham area. We're splitting our time between that part, Freeport, and Portland. We've been there together once before, a couple of summers ago, and her parents did a great job taking us all over the place (best destinations were a peer where we ate lobster minutes out of the water, and Moody's Diner). I agree--it's a beautiful state.


Love Maine, love Portland, love Moody's - you'll have a great time.


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## xcubbies

Duvel said:


> Oh, I'm so excited. We're making our second pilgrimage to the LL Bean Freeport store this weekend. What's really great is we're staying in a hotel right downtown, so no parking issues, etc. Woo hoo. I've started a list. Lambswool v-neck sweaters. More flannel shirts? Socks? Scarves? Anything else I should be considering?


How will we recognize you?


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## Duvel

Look for the man with the live lobster in his blazer pocket.



xcubbies said:


> How will we recognize you?


----------



## xcubbies

Duvel said:


> Look for the man with the live lobster in his blazer pocket.


A lobster as a pocket square. How GTH!


----------



## mhj

August West said:


> Orvis Ultimate Khakis question; Can the seat be taken in on these? The waist doesn't appear to be alterable which surprises me based on the price point, so I'm guessing that the seat may not be as well?


I looked at my pair this morning and the waist band is one piece and not alterable as you noted, the seat is sort of double sewn like blue jeans and may not be alterable either but I'm not an alterations expert.


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## gamma68

Does one wear a Car Coat _over_ a sport coat in the same manner as an overcoat?


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## August West

mhj said:


> I looked at my pair this morning and the waist band is one piece and not alterable as you noted, the seat is sort of double sewn like blue jeans and may not be alterable either but I'm not an alterations expert.


Thanks for your reply. I plan on taking a pair to my tailor today. to have a look.


----------



## fred johnson

gamma68 said:


> Does one wear a Car Coat _over_ a sport coat in the same manner as an overcoat?


Why not? Wouldn't it be like a Barbour over a sport coat type of thing.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> Does one wear a Car Coat _over_ a sport coat in the same manner as an overcoat?


I believe so. Wasn't the car coat really a substitute for the longer overcoats and topcoats that were cumbersome for drivers to wear (as they get stuck in the car door or tangle up your legs when driving)? Hence, the car coat is really a top coat / over coat alternative. I'm not a huge fan of the look, but I believe it is perfectly acceptable to wear it over a suit or sport jacket.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> I believe so. Wasn't the car coat really a substitute for the longer overcoats and topcoats that were cumbersome for drivers to wear (as they get stuck in the car door or tangle up your legs when driving)? Hence, the car coat is really a top coat / over coat alternative. I'm not a huge fan of the look, but I believe it is perfectly acceptable to wear it over a suit or sport jacket.


I think you're right regarding the purpose of the car coat. But it strikes me as something you wouldn't wear over a suit, which calls for something more formal like an overcoat. The car coat seems less formal to me, somehow. As if it dates from an era when "going out for a drive" was a bit of a recreational pastime.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> I think you're right regarding the purpose of the car coat. But it strikes me as something you wouldn't wear over a suit, which calls for something more formal like an overcoat. The car coat seems less formal to me, somehow. As if it dates from an era when "going out for a drive" was a bit of a recreational pastime.


I am not a big fan of them for suits or dressier sport coats as they just look out of proportion in length and, as you noted, level of formality. For more casual sport coats, they work better, IMHO.

That said, I look terrible in all mid length outwear - which is why I love but don't own a peacoat or duffle. Traditional overcoats or Eisenhower length jackets work well for me, but the mid-length looks awkward on me. So I just wear my overcoat whenever wearing someone over my suits or sport coats.

And the car coat - I think - did originate when you said, but is very much embraced my commuters today. But we probably need to define out a car coat better. There are some that look like an abbreviated overcoat - which is what a lot of men who commute into the city wear and then there are some that are much more casual, which, IMHO only work with a very casual sport coat - one you'd wear with a cord and a pair of Chukkas or other casual shoe / boot.

I had a boss about ten years ago who said he could tell the men who had quit trying to advance in their careers by their clothes and one of the things he noted was the men who would wear a casual car coat (not the abbreviated overcoat version) to the office over their suit. He had several thought like that - but I distinctly remember him mentioning that one.


----------



## gamma68

Fading Fast said:


> I am not a big fan of them for suits or dressier sport coats as they just look out of proportion in length and, as you noted, level of formality. For more casual sport coats, they work better, IMHO.
> 
> That said, I look terrible in all mid length outwear - which is why I love but don't own a peacoat or duffle. Traditional overcoats or Eisenhower length jackets work well for me, but the mid-length looks awkward on me. So I just wear my overcoat whenever wearing someone over my suits or sport coats.
> 
> And the car coat - I think - did originate when you said, but is very much embraced my commuters today. But we probably need to define out a car coat better. There are some that look like an abbreviated overcoat - which is what a lot of men who commute into the city wear and then there are some that are much more casual, which, IMHO only work with a very casual sport coat - one you'd wear with a cord and a pair of Chukkas or other casual shoe / boot.
> 
> I had a boss about ten years ago who said he could tell the men who had quit trying to advance in their careers by their clothes and one of the things he noted was the men who would wear a casual car coat (not the abbreviated overcoat version) to the office over their suit. He had several thought like that - but I distinctly remember him mentioning that one.


The Car Coat I have my eye on is this one:

My gut tells me it would work over a tweed sport coat. But please let me know if my gut is wrong.


----------



## Fading Fast

gamma68 said:


> The Car Coat I have my eye on is this one:
> ...My gut tells me it would work over a tweed sport coat. But please let me know if my gut is wrong.


I think it would look good with a tweed sport coat. Especially since the car coat has a very thick, textured weave itself - they'll feel harmonious together.


----------



## gamma68

I've been pondering what to call this vintage wool double-breasted Brooks Brothers "Brooksgate" coat I recently thrifted. Yes, I know it's an overcoat, but what type of overcoat?

It looks stylistically like a polo coat, but I believe those are camel hair?


----------



## CornoUltimo

Gamma, I've heard that style also referred to as 'ulster' or 'British warm'


----------



## Orgetorix

Yeah, more like a British Warm than a polo coat. Polo coats have "envelope" or "mailbox" style patch pockets.


----------



## eagle2250

Many years ago the USAF version of gamma68's coat was generally called a "horse blanket" by many to whom they were issued! However, I would call it "a British Warm" to describe it in more contemporary terms.


----------



## gamma68

Thanks, gents. British Warm, it is. I haven't heard of this style before. Glad to learn something new.


----------



## fred johnson

gamma,
Definitely a British Warm. The more frequent color was a taupe but the blue was common also. I have one in the taupe and it is super warm and well named. Took me quite a while to find just the perfect shade of Irish Walking Hat to complement it but Hanna Hats came through. Enjoy, its a beautiful coat and fits very well.


----------



## adept

I've never been able to press cotton without the iron set to hot, probably because I don't have understanding of the heat/fabric. I've been pressing pocket squares and learned that was impossible (for me) without starch.

Meanwhile, all shirt go to the cleaners.



Charles Dana said:


> A lot of people routinely take their best broadcloth dress shirts to the dry cleaners. If dry cleaners are perfectly capable of laundering and pressing broadcloth shirts without causing them to disintegrate, then they can handle any OCBD, even a non-beefy one.
> 
> As for doing it yourself at home: If my iron--set on warm--refrains from scorching my lightweight broadcloth and linen shirts to hell and back--and it refrains quite nicely--then it's not going to damage an OCBD, beefy or otherwise.
> 
> Disclaimer: The above are general observations. I do not own one of the unlined OCBDs from O'Connell's.
> 
> As long as your iron is on "Warm" and not "Keep Fire Extinguisher Handy" you'll be OK.


----------



## adept

I wish the pic of the car coat was there...don't know what they look like.



gamma68 said:


> The Car Coat I have my eye on is this one:
> 
> My gut tells me it would work over a tweed sport coat. But please let me know if my gut is wrong.


----------



## Duvel

It's a bit of a trip, literally and figuratively, visiting the land of the Bean. While I wouldn't say that "trad" reigns in Maine, the components and items of "trad" sure pervade the scene. Whenever I go, I consistently see men (and women) wearing ocbds, sweaters, LL Bean field jackets, chinos, Bean flannels, Bean boots, and so on. Even my wife noticed, e.g., "Hey, that old guy over there is wearing that great LL Bean flannel shirt you just bought!" 

People dress up more in restaurants, even for casual lunches and in casual places. 

No question. Just an observation, but feel free to comment.


----------



## Fading Fast

I agree, the wearing of many element of Trad - not necessary all or nearly all-trad outfits as we see in the WAYWT thread here (but sometimes you do see an all trad outfit) - is definitely something you see in Maine. 

And what I enjoy is that it appears to be, for a lot of the people wearing the items, that these items are just their go-to clothing choice - they aren't doing it as we do out of a conscious love of Trad. I think cords, shetland, boat shoes, Bean boots (of course), etc., have such a long history in Maine, that those and other trad items are surviving amongst the locals, not as a conscious effort, but because it is what they know, grew up with, what their parents wore, etc. 

I've noticed that the demographic in Maine leans older and that it is that demographic that is more dressed up in casual places as you noted. Not sure that is translating to the younger generation. 

And, yes it is a trip up to "Beanland" (I'm assuming you drove up from Portland or further south). Faster to use the new highway (forget the number), but more fun and scenic, if you have the time, to go Route 1 as a lot of Americana, road-side kitch and old Maine still survives.


----------



## Duvel

It was like, Wow, these people around here dress like I do! 

We actually stayed in Freeport our first couple of nights, driving to the in-laws in Durham for Thanksgiving, then spending the next day bumming around Freeport, hitting Bean and other places. We found a great store down the street from Bean, by the way, that sells Barbour jackets, great hats, and scarves. I picked up a great schoolboy scarf with U of Nottingham colors.


----------



## Duvel

Wow. I bought stuff in the Freeport Bean store Friday morning and had them ship it (no room in the luggage). The UPS truck showed up tonight with my stuff. How fast is that.


----------



## sarakali

This may be a dumb question, but I bought a nice belt with monogrammed engine turned buckle a while back. When I wear it, it seems crooked since the part that attaches to the strap sits higher than the other end of the buckle due to the extra material under it. However, when I flip it upside down and wear the belt the other way, it sits correctly against my waist (but the monogram is flipped as well). What gives?


----------



## xcubbies

Duvel said:


> It's a bit of a trip, literally and figuratively, visiting the land of the Bean. While I wouldn't say that "trad" reigns in Maine, the components and items of "trad" sure pervade the scene. Whenever I go, I consistently see men (and women) wearing ocbds, sweaters, LL Bean field jackets, chinos, Bean flannels, Bean boots, and so on. Even my wife noticed, e.g., "Hey, that old guy over there is wearing that great LL Bean flannel shirt you just bought!"
> 
> People dress up more in restaurants, even for casual lunches and in casual places.
> 
> No question. Just an observation, but feel free to comment.


I think you were mostly seeing tourists, Duvel. Most Mainers wear buffalo plad jackets and logging boots, and Carhardt workclothes.


----------



## fred johnson

Duvel said:


> Wow. I bought stuff in the Freeport Bean store Friday morning and had them ship it (no room in the luggage). The UPS truck showed up tonight with my stuff. How fast is that.


Was there by any chance the heavier weight flannel trousers they used to sell up to a few years ago? They disappeared from their website and hardly ever turn up at their outlet stores.


----------



## Duvel

No, not really. These were Mainers. We were mixing with locals, some of whom we knew. Of course we were in Durham and Portland. Maybe people dress classier there than the rest of Maine.



xcubbies said:


> I think you were mostly seeing tourists, Duvel. Most Mainers wear buffalo plad jackets and logging boots, and Carhardt workclothes.


----------



## xcubbies

Possible you were with the Literati. But normal people wear Carhardt.


----------



## FLMike

Assume you mean Carhartt.


----------



## Duvel

Thank god we never saw any normal people, then! Ha ha.



xcubbies said:


> Possible you were with the Literati. But normal people wear Carhardt.


----------



## Shaver

gamma68 said:


> Thanks, gents. British Warm, it is. I haven't heard of this style before. Glad to learn something new.


I have three, two of which are illustrated below, and consider the British Warm to be no small indicator of good taste, their appealing military smartness and tremendous versatility (from worsted suit to tweeds) makes them an indispensable component of any well dressed man's wardrobe.


----------



## gamma68

Shaver said:


> I have three, two of which are illustrated below, and consider the British Warm to be no small indicator of good taste, their appealing military smartness and tremendous versatility (from worsted suit to tweeds) makes them an indispensable component of any well dressed man's wardrobe.


Thanks for sharing pics, Shaver. I'm very glad to have acquired my British Warm coat.


----------



## Shaver

And a super find it is. I expect that you too shall fall in love with this most delightful style of overcoat.



gamma68 said:


> Thanks for sharing pics, Shaver. I'm very glad to have acquired my British Warm coat.


----------



## Balfour

Shaver said:


> And a super find it is. I expect that you too shall fall in love with this most delightful style of overcoat.


I like your British Warms.

(Unfortunately the auto-advertising link in "overcoat" makes your post very funny indeed in an unintended way if you follow the link!)


----------



## Shaver

Heh. I have coats that would probably fit over those 'overcoats'.


----------



## xcubbies

FLCracka said:


> Assume you mean Carhartt.


I'll have to check when I undress tonight.


----------



## Robertson

Would this be a good first traditional blazer? I don't have a navy blazer yet.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Robertson said:


> Would this be a good first traditional blazer? I don't have a navy blazer yet.


That's a perfectly fine blazer. But if you want to go full on trad, find one with a 3/2 button stance and no darts. Sort of like this one (though I know it's not your size). I don't know how versed you are in the style, but it has all the trad/ivy appointments like patch pockets, swelled lapel edges, natural shoulder, center vent, no darts and the 3/2 roll, which means it's three buttons, but the lapel rolls over the top button. You can see the button hole on the lapel if you zoom in.


----------



## orange fury

I asked this in the December Acquisitions thread but didn't get a response. I recently got some Jingle Bell Moks from AE that I picked up this week. They're first quality, but I noticed a gap on each shoe along the welt (I think my terminology is correct?). I figured the rougher leather is just a characteristic of the type of shoe, but I wanted to make sure before I wore them that this wouldn't cause me problems down the road:









The leather:









i have no experience with AE's unlined "mok" line, so I wasn't sure what would be considered normal with these.


----------



## FLMike

^Sorry, I can't help you. Stinks you didn't get any reassurances earlier, as I know you were excited about wearing them to a Christmas party this weekend.


----------



## Tempest

My Neumoks don't exhibit any gap, but the welting is otherwise pretty much the same. That looks like ~1/16 of an inch, which is the result of very little perimeter wandering. But thanks for reminding me that I have the candy cane laces to be pulled out soon.


----------



## orange fury

Tempest said:


> My Neumoks don't exhibit any gap, but the welting is otherwise pretty much the same. That looks like ~1/16 of an inch, which is the result of very little perimeter wandering. But thanks for reminding me that I have the candy cane laces to be pulled out soon.


So it should be okay then you think?


----------



## Robertson

rmpmcdermott said:


> That's a perfectly fine blazer. But if you want to go full on trad, find one with a 3/2 button stance and no darts. Sort of like this one (though I know it's not your size). I don't know how versed you are in the style, but it has all the trad/ivy appointments like patch pockets, swelled lapel edges, natural shoulder, center vent, no darts and the 3/2 roll, which means it's three buttons, but the lapel rolls over the top button. You can see the button hole on the lapel if you zoom in.


Thank you for the help! I wasn't familiar with any of those specifics.


----------



## Robertson

orange fury said:


> I asked this in the December Acquisitions thread but didn't get a response. I recently got some Jingle Bell Moks from AE that I picked up this week. They're first quality, but I noticed a gap on each shoe along the welt (I think my terminology is correct?). I figured the rougher leather is just a characteristic of the type of shoe, but I wanted to make sure before I wore them that this wouldn't cause me problems down the road:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The leather:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i have no experience with AE's unlined "mok" line, so I wasn't sure what would be considered normal with these.


Don't worry about those! A lot of my AE's are like that. Isn't that just where the welt comes together?

On my navy strandmoks the wing tip overlaps the higher brogueing in the same way.


----------



## jimw

I don't see how you can go wrong for $40 - so long as the specific sizing works for you. Sure, this is a darted 2-button, but these can still be considered a bona fide, trad staple. You will acquire some 3/2 sack jackets in your time, but frankly these are not so common, especially in the 2nd-hand market. So long as the cut is not too tailored or slim-fit, the look will be appropriately understated.

Happy shopping!


Robertson said:


> Would this be a good first traditional blazer? I don't have a navy blazer yet.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

jimw said:


> I don't see how you can go wrong for $40 - so long as the specific sizing works for you. Sure, this is a darted 2-button, but these can still be considered a bona fide, trad staple. You will acquire some 3/2 sack jackets in your time, but frankly these are not so common, especially in the 2nd-hand market. So long as the cut is not too tailored or slim-fit, the look will be appropriately understated.
> 
> Happy shopping!


I don't agree that a 2-button, darted jacket is a trad staple. BUT, that doesn't mean it's not a nice blazer. Like I said, it will probably serve the poster perfectly fine as long as it fits and I don't want to steer anyone away from something they like just because of my bias. I was giving him details on what people would consider trad or ivy and I just wouldn't put a 2-button, darted jacket in that category.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Robertson said:


> Thank you for the help! I wasn't familiar with any of those specifics.


Anytime! I was lucky enough to have some great people verse me in the trad/ivy look so I'm happy to pass the information along. And like I said before, the blazer you listed is a really nice one, so you'd be fine buying it. But in my opinion, the specs I listed above make up the classic trad/ivy league blazer from the late 50s/early 60s. YMMV, though.


----------



## jimw

Apologies, RMP - I wasn't being contrary to your viewpoint, but just weighing in on Robertson's initial question. I find that for many new members or for those looking to build a solid wardrobe, a 2 button Brooksease is not a bad choice, is all.



rmpmcdermott said:


> I don't agree that a 2-button, darted jacket is a trad staple. BUT, that doesn't mean it's not a nice blazer. Like I said, it will probably serve the poster perfectly fine as long as it fits and I don't want to steer anyone away from something they like just because of my bias. I was giving him details on what people would consider trad or ivy and I just wouldn't put a 2-button, darted jacket in that category.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

jimw said:


> Apologies, RMP - I wasn't being contrary to your viewpoint, but just weighing in on Robertson's initial question. I find that for many new members or for those looking to build a solid wardrobe, a 2 button Brooksease is not a bad choice, is all.


No worries! I probably misinterpreted your post. I do agree that it's a fine blazer and a great start.


----------



## Robertson

Thanks! It is good to know what the details, or rules, or tradition is even if one varies from it with darting, etc.

I have enough of a drop from chest that I think darting might be a good idea, though I would prefer natural shoulders and traditional button stance.


----------



## ran23

Is it alright to remove one's suit jacket if I am wearing suspenders (at Christmas Eve dinner out).


----------



## GRH

*Exposed braces*



ran23 said:


> Is it alright to remove one's suit jacket if I am wearing suspenders (at Christmas Eve dinner out).


Nope.


----------



## Duvel

Think of it this way, ran23. What is the point of wearing a suit out to dinner if you're only going to remove the jacket when you arrive at your destination? So, no. Wear your jacket. Button it while standing and walking. Unbutton it as you sit down to the table.

Other pointers. Offer to seat your female guest first, i.e., gently pull out her chair for her and help her off with her coat, etc., and then take your place at the table. Allow her to order first. Never let your utinsels touch the table once you've stared using them--they remain on the plate. When you are finished, turn your fork over on the plate. Wine is a more elegant choice than beer at a nice dinner out. Focus your attention almost completely on your date and smile a lot at her, as if she were the single most important thing going on in that moment (and she should be!). Talk about almost anything but yourself unless your date asks (best--get your date to talk about herself). Be polite, courteous, and even friendly to the wait staff.

In other words, always ask yourself, What would Cary Grant do?



ran23 said:


> Is it alright to remove one's suit jacket if I am wearing suspenders (at Christmas Eve dinner out).


----------



## Fading Fast

Duvel said:


> Think of it this way, ran23. What is the point of wearing a suit out to dinner if you're only going to remove the jacket when you arrive at your destination? So, no. Wear your jacket. Button it while standing and walking. Unbutton it as you sit down to the table.
> 
> Other pointers. Offer to seat your female guest first, i.e., gently pull out her chair for her and help her off with her coat, etc., and then take your place at the table. Allow her to order first. Never let your utinsels touch the table once you've stared using them--they remain on the plate. When you are finished, turn your fork over on the plate. Wine is a more elegant choice than beer at a nice dinner out. Focus your attention almost completely on your date and smile a lot at her, as if she were the single most important thing going on in that moment (and she should be!). Talk about almost anything but yourself unless your date asks (best--get your date to talk about herself). Be polite, courteous, and even friendly to the wait staff.
> 
> In other words, always ask yourself, What would Cary Grant do?


All very good advice and this nugget of yours "Never let your utinsels touch the table once you've stared using them--they remain on the plate" should be inculcated into every child. It is nasty to see someone put their used utensils back on the table top. It is why restaurants that serve bread should always give you a bread plate - beside needing it to place the uneaten portion of your bread and your butter on, it is wear the butter knife rests once it has been used.

And I'll add one to your list, if the bread basket has rolls or individual pieces of bread, always take one (and only one at at time), put it on your bread plate, break off just the piece you are going to put in your mouth (which should be small), butter just that piece (and, first, take a reasonable amount of butter from the main dish with you knife, put it on your butter plate and butter your bread from that - never take the butter from the table's butter dish and put it directly on your bread), return your knife to the plate and, then, eat it. Repeat until your piece is done before getting another piece (and try not to fill up on the bread anyway ).

For perspective, I am a kid from NJ, my Dad didn't go to college (and I would challenge his call that he graduated high school). My parent's were Depression kids who grew up with next to nothing - but they always tried to have good manners and teach those manners to me. They and my grandmother taught me table manners and they have served me well my entire life. Are there times and settings where the rules can and should (no one likes a snob) be relaxed, yes - but as Duvel implies, not on a date and / or at a place where a suit is appropriate attire.

Have a great time.


----------



## ran23

Thank You Gentlemen. I found some unique Asian theme suspenders and my wife and I are guests of a 87 year old Chinese Gentleman on Christmas Eve Dinner at a major retirement complex. I am sure I will show them to him before dinner at his house. Happy Holidays.


----------



## orange fury

Shoe fit question.

I received a pair of AE Grayson tassel loafers in the mail from Shoebank on Friday, and though they feel like they fit (ball of the foot, no slippage, etc), the top of the shoe seems to have a gap between the leather and my foot. The section in question is in between the crease and the tassel strap:


pushing the section in with my finger:


the second part I had a question about was the heel- though the heels are the same height as any other AE I have, the width and length are both about 1/4-3/8" bigger than my other pairs:


Back of the shoes:


the question im really getting at here is if this looks like a mismarked size. I wear a 10.5 D in pretty much all AE's (including 7 last, which this is on), but the heel and leather on top make me wonder if this is a mismarked 10.5 E or something. I couldn't find any defects with the shoe, so I was curious about what yalls thought were.


----------



## FLMike

My thought is you might want to limit your shoe buying to in-store purchases only. Sorry if that sounds flippant, but it just seems like you have a really hard time buying shoes online.

As to your questions, I don't notice a gap on the top of my Graysons, and their heels seem to be the same size as those on my PAs, FAs, and Strands. That said, I am skeptical that those two factors are indicative of mismarked sizing or rise to the level of actual defects.


----------



## Duvel

OF, my thought is that you are incredibly detailed about your inspection of your shoes! I'd never have noticed such discrepancies. While there might be discrepancies among various pairs of the same handmade shoe, isn't this acceptable and even to be expected? It's not like they are punched out by a machine. I, as well, do not mean to sound flippant, but your concerns hardly seem like true defects to me.


----------



## Squeaky_Alexander

Dog tie - Trying to decide if I should "ask" for a Chipp dog breed tie for Christmas. Would I be able to wear it to work say, once a week? Or is it more of a novelty item in actual use?

My other ties are just from the Tie Bar, but I don't yet own a pattern tie like this. But, it would be the most expensive tie I own. Other option I'm considering is the Navy Grenadine which I've been putting off buying. Probably much more useful, but not really as fun. Pic of the dog tie below, link here.


----------



## Duvel

Do you have a dog? Paricularly this breed? If not, you might be seen as ironic like a hipster.



Squeaky_Alexander said:


> Dog tie - Trying to decide if I should "ask" for a Chipp dog breed tie for Christmas. Would I be able to wear it to work say, once a week? Or is it more of a novelty item in actual use?
> 
> My other ties are just from the Tie Bar, but I don't yet own a pattern tie like this. But, it would be the most expensive tie I own. Other option I'm considering is the Navy Grenadine which I've been putting off buying. Probably much more useful, but not really as fun. Pic of the dog tie below, link here.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Squeaky_Alexander said:


> Dog tie - Trying to decide if I should "ask" for a Chipp dog breed tie for Christmas. Would I be able to wear it to work say, once a week? Or is it more of a novelty item in actual use?
> 
> My other ties are just from the Tie Bar, but I don't yet own a pattern tie like this. But, it would be the most expensive tie I own. Other option I'm considering is the Navy Grenadine which I've been putting off buying. Probably much more useful, but not really as fun. Pic of the dog tie below, link here.


I wear a black lab tie all of the time. I don't have a dog let alone a black lab. I had the same hipster reservations that Duvel posted, but so far so good.


----------



## Oldsport

We had a very young Shiba Inu dog that we had to put down a week ago due to a very rare lymphoma. Shibas look nearly exactly like Foxes. I will continue to wear my Fox ties in her memory.



oxford cloth button down said:


> I wear a black lab tie all of the time. I don't have a dog let alone a black lab. I had the same hipster reservations that Duvel posted, but so far so good.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I continue to wear a miniature schnauzer tie for much the same reason(s). Never worried much about or really cared what associates might think of the tie! Still don't.


----------



## Duvel

Yes, honestly, if I like a tie (or anything I wear), I simply wear it. I really don't care what people think (although they'd hardly mistake me for a hipster -- ha ha!).

It's a bit like my school repp ties and schoolboy scarves. No, I didn't go to school there. Do I like the school, and the tie. Yes!


----------



## Fading Fast

Ducks, elephants, foxes, several dog breeds, llamas (quite handsome looking fellas), flamingos, sharks (pink guys on an ocean blue tie - just go with it) and rhinos and a few others that I'm forgetting are all on different ties that I own. Other than a few of the dog breads, I don't and never have owned any of these animals, but still wear the ties proudly. And it would be impossible to mistake me for a hipster or anything considered cool.


----------



## Duvel

I own a couple of pheasant ties and I neither own pheasants nor have I shot them. I have eaten one.

I also own a PRL golf tie and I haven't been on a golf course, to play, anyway, since I was a sophomore in college.


----------



## Fading Fast

I get violent sea sickness, but I own several sail boat ties.


----------



## FLMike

Well, I guess I'm the odd man out here. There may be an exception I just can't think of at the moment, but all of my novelty ties and belts have some connection or relevance to my own interests or lifestyle. For instance, I own....

A pheasant tie - I love to go pheasant hunting and went on an annual pheasant hunting trip to Kansas about five years straight.
A tie with tarpons on it - I love tarpon fishing and frequently go to Boca Grande, tarpon fishing capital of the world.
A club belt with my country club's logo on it (self explanatory)
A belt with ducks on it - I love to duck hunt.
Various other ties and belts adorned with different species of fish - I love to fish and spend time on the water in general!
Various items featuring skull and crossbones - I belong to a social organization with a pirate theme, founded in 1904.

I'm big on authenticity and to me it just seems wrong (for me, I don't begrudge others) to wear random symbols, animals, logos, etc. on my person that have no relevance to my own life. I don't even like to wear anything with the Vineyard Vines whale logo visible, because I'm not from New England, have never seen a whale in person, and have never even visited Martha's Vineyard. I know, I'm weird....


----------



## Duvel

I could certainly make the case that every symbol, animal, and stripe I wear has significance to me. For one, just that I'm wearing it is significant; let's call that existential significance. For another, I would not wear it if I found it abhorrent; if pheasants horrified me, I wouldn't wear a pheasant tie, but in fact, I kind of like the way they look and I remember liking how the one I had eaten tasted to me. 

Let's see... golf. Well, as I said, I have played it. Repp ties associated with schools... these are great schools, and I work in higher education, I admire the cause of higher ed, and I have enormous respect for the schools. 

I'd wear a whale tie if I had one. I like Moby Dick (the novel), though it's been a while since I read it.

I have some leaf ties. I sure have raked a lot of leaves in my lifetime!


----------



## Fading Fast

FLCracka said:


> Well, I guess I'm the odd man out here. There may be an exception I just can't think of at the moment, but all of my novelty ties and belts have some connection or relevance to my own interests or lifestyle. For instance, I own....
> 
> A pheasant tie - I love to go pheasant hunting and went on an annual pheasant hunting trip to Kansas about five years straight.
> A tie with tarpons on it - I love tarpon fishing and frequently go to Boca Grande, tarpon fishing capital of the world.
> A club belt with my country club's logo on it (self explanatory)
> A belt with ducks on it - I love to duck hunt.
> Various other ties and belts adorned with different species of fish - I love to fish and spend time on the water in general!
> Various items featuring skull and crossbones - I belong to a social organization with a pirate theme, founded in 1904.
> 
> I'm big on authenticity and to me it just seems wrong (for me, I don't begrudge others) to wear random symbols, animals, logos, etc. on my person that have no relevance to my own life. I don't even like to wear anything with the Vineyard Vines whale logo visible, because I'm not from New England, have never seen a whale in person, and have never even visited Martha's Vineyard. I know, I'm weird....


I respect your view, sincerely, but the breach for me is if it is a club tie or other emblem alluding to membership or some achievement that I have not, well, achieved. I would never wear something that even remotely implied I belong to or accomplished something I don't belong to haven't done.

But animals or sailboats (which I have been on, love in concept, but just get seasick on) seem to me to be generic things that don't say, "I accomplished this" or "I am a member of this association." I think (and could be wrong), that most people see these ties - like my pink sharks - as just fun, lighthearted whimsy. But I meant what I said, I respect your point of view and understand how you could feel that way.


----------



## Duvel

Yep. I wouldn't wear anything associated with service to country, etc., in any capacity that I hadn't actually filled. That would be my boundary. The rest, though, is rather inane, if you ask me. Critters, boats, golf clubs, schools... it's all good.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Triathlete said:


> We had a very young Shiba Inu dog that we had to put down a week ago due to a very rare lymphoma. Shibas look nearly exactly like Foxes. I will continue to wear my Fox ties in her memory.


Shibas are marvelous dogs. My officemate used to bring one to work that I couldn't take my eyes off (yes, we have a dog-friendly office).


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Fading Fast said:


> I respect your view, sincerely, but the breach for me is if it is a club tie or other emblem alluding to membership or some achievement that I have not, well, achieved. I would never wear something that even remotely implied I belong to or accomplished something I don't belong to haven't done.
> 
> But animals or sailboats (which I have been on, love in concept, but just get seasick on) seem to me to be generic things that don't say, "I accomplished this" or "I am a member of this association." I think (and could be wrong), that most people see these ties - like my pink sharks - as just fun, lighthearted whimsy. But I meant what I said, I respect your point of view and understand how you could feel that way.


Agreed. I'd never wear a club tie or a tie that specifically represented a school or university I didn't attend. Press has some ties I love, but they represent certain Harvard and Yale schools and clubs so I won't wear them. But as far as animals and generic objects go, I say OK! I have a mallard emblematic tie and I use the excuse that my girlfriend's grandfather founded a waterfowl conservancy in Connecticut that the family still runs. I have a pig emblematic tie that I justify to myself by my love of all pork products. I don't think anyone needs to justify that kind of thing, though. I think I'm just armed with those excuses in case anyone gives me crap over it.


----------



## FLMike

rmpmcdermott said:


> Agreed. I'd never wear a club tie or a tie that specifically represented a school or university I didn't attend. Press has some ties I love, but they represent certain Harvard and Yale schools and clubs so I won't wear them. But as far as animals and generic objects go, I say OK! I have a mallard emblematic tie and I use the excuse that my girlfriend's grandfather founded a waterfowl conservancy in Connecticut that the family still runs. I have a pig emblematic tie that I justify to myself by my love of all pork products. I don't think anyone needs to justify that kind of thing, though. I think I'm just armed with those excuses in case anyone gives me crap over it.


Makes sense to me. In the case of certain fun emblematics that rise to the level of GTH....your pigs, for example.....I would go for it. No need to come from a family of pig farmers, even in my OCD brain. Of course, I have been known to take down a nuisance hog or two from a deer stand.


----------



## rmpmcdermott

FLCracka said:


> Makes sense to me. In the case of certain fun emblematics that rise to the level of GTH....your pigs, for example.....I would go for it. No need to come from a family of pig farmers, even in my OCD brain. Of course, I have been known to take down a nuisance hog or two from a deer stand.


Maroon tie with pink pigs from Press. It's one of my favorites. I haven't hunted in any real capacity since I was a kid, but I like your style!


----------



## Duvel

I saw some ties at a consignment shop that obviously were specifically for or about USMC. Should the shop even be selling them?!


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Don't see why not - who should wear them is another story...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Squeaky_Alexander

Going to have to go for the tie now! And yes, I do have an Australian Cattle Dog. She's a rescue and a mix, but that's what she most closely resembles. She's a nut.


----------



## NicholasJenkins

I'm very sorry. That is a heartbreaking loss.


----------



## eagle2250

rmpmcdermott said:


> Agreed. I'd never wear a club tie or a tie that specifically represented a school or university I didn't attend. Press has some ties I love, but they represent certain Harvard and Yale schools and clubs so I won't wear them......
> .......


Hopefully, the dastardly act of wearing a tie that represents a school to which one might not have attended, can be somewhat excused in my case. Alas, the "eagle's coop" is a house divided, with me receiving my Bachelor's degree from Penn State and Mrs eagle being a fire breathing fan of both the University of Michigan and Michigan State Univ. I have ties done up in the colors of each of the three schools, with the Penn State tie seeing regular wear and the 'Michigan ties' being worn, purely as an act of public contrition, to Sunday services subsequent to those sad, sad fall Saturdays, on which the Nittany Lions fell to the Wolverines or the Spartans. You may rest assured, my wearing of those ties intends no misplaced association with those "other" schools! LOL.


----------



## Orgetorix

eagle2250 said:


> Hopefully, the dastardly act of wearing a tie that represents a school to which one might not have attended, can be somewhat excused in my case. Alas, the "eagle's coop" is a house divided, with me receiving my Bachelor's degree from Penn State and Mrs eagle being a fire breathing fan of both the University of Michigan and Michigan State Univ. I have ties done up in the colors of each of the three schools, with the Penn State tie seeing regular wear and the 'Michigan ties' being worn, purely as an act of public contrition, to Sunday services subsequent to those sad, sad fall Saturdays, on which the Nittany Lions fell to the Wolverines or the Spartans. You may rest assured, my wearing of those ties intends no misplaced association with those "other" schools! LOL.


You're both wrong. 

Signed,








rgetorix


----------



## Duvel

True story: A couple of years ago, on campus, an old prof of mine saw me on the street and said, "Hey, isn't that a Yale tie? When did you go there?" I told him I'd never been enrolled at Yale but I thought it was "a pretty good school, from what I hear," and he laughed and said, "Yeah, that's what they'd like you to believe. Well, it looks good on you!"

So I don't think it's really a big deal.


----------



## fred johnson

Squeaky_Alexander said:


> Dog tie - Trying to decide if I should "ask" for a Chipp dog breed tie for Christmas. Would I be able to wear it to work say, once a week? Or is it more of a novelty item in actual use?
> 
> Squeaky,
> I have 3 dogs but don't own ducks or geese but wear them on ties. I would not worry about it if the tie works with the intended outfit.


----------



## adept

> I neither own pheasants nor have I shot them. I have eaten one.


I have some in my freezer!


----------



## adept

This is not an exclusively trad question, but you trad guys are the most knowledgeable. 

Why is it that on nicer shirts the bottom button hole is cut horizontally and not vertically?


----------



## Orgetorix

adept said:


> This is not an exclusively trad question, but you trad guys are the most knowledgeable.
> 
> Why is it that on nicer shirts the bottom button hole is cut horizontally and not vertically?


I think it's because that one gets a fair amount of lateral stress from the belly/hips when you're moving around and sitting down/getting up. A horizontal buttonhole is less likely to come undone.


----------



## adept

Orgetorix said:


> I think it's because that one gets a fair amount of lateral stress from the belly/hips when you're moving around and sitting down/getting up. A horizontal buttonhole is less likely to come undone.


Plausible... should say it is handy when pre-occupied...ones knows when the last one is reached.


----------



## HOOT

I'm looking for a pair of glasses like these worn by JFK and John Dean, any idea where I can find them?

They look smaller than the average P3.


----------



## Duvel

Oliver Peoples

Anglo American

Probably two of the better known and better quality. Warby Parker is a less expensive option. 

Also, Google "classic" or "traditional" men's eyeglasses and such.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

I think they're just normal P3s worn in a smaller-than-average size.

On the emblematic ties subject, I tend to wear ones that relate to my interests, or at least things I like. Luckily, I like dogs, I sail whenever I can find somebody who'll hand me a line, and I like most of your typical woodland creatures.


----------



## Califax

What about ties - I'm thinking of RL ties at the moment - that have vague shields and crests of various kinds? I don't think they reference anything in particular. On the other hand they're cheesy for precisely that reason: they suggest something without actually being it. On the other _other _hand, I have to admit from a purely aesthetic sense they look rather cool.


----------



## Duvel

I wear paisley ties as a nod to my hippie days.


----------



## FLMike

Califax said:


> What about ties - I'm thinking of RL ties at the moment - that have vague shields and crests of various kinds? I don't think they reference anything in particular. On the other hand they're cheesy for precisely that reason: they suggest something without actually being it. On the other _other _hand, I have to admit from a purely aesthetic sense they look rather cool.


I would call such ties "aspirational". As in, those types of shirlds and crests traditionally denote some sort of affiliation....the wearer has no such affilIations, but he aspires to. Like you said, cheesy.....


----------



## GRH

*I wear paisley ties*

... as a nod to my years with the Honorable East India Company.


Duvel said:


> I wear paisley ties as a nod to my hippie days.


----------



## Robertson

What tie for a candy-striped red and white oxford? I don't have one that matches :-(


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Robertson said:


> What tie for a candy-striped red and white oxford? I don't have one that matches :-(


A really pinkish red? Or a very slightly burnt red (at least it looks that way to me at Brooks Bros.)? You mean the university stripe oxford?


----------



## Robertson

SlideGuitarist said:


> A really pinkish red? Or a very slightly burnt red (at least it looks that way to me at Brooks Bros.)? You mean the university stripe oxford?


Thanks! It's this one:

https://www.ratioclothing.com/products/red-candy-stripe-oxford


----------



## mhj

Robertson said:


> What tie for a candy-striped red and white oxford? I don't have one that matches :-(


A Brooks Brother #1 Repp Tie in burgundy and gold.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB#1...var_MA02076_Color=DKRD&contentpos=5&cgid=0210


----------



## Robertson

mhj said:


> A Brooks Brother #1 Repp Tie in burgundy and gold.
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB#1...var_MA02076_Color=DKRD&contentpos=5&cgid=0210


Thank you!


----------



## FLMike

mhj said:


> A Brooks Brother #1 Repp Tie in burgundy and gold.
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB#1...var_MA02076_Color=DKRD&contentpos=5&cgid=0210


That's a lot going on with that combo. I would suggest the BB#3 Repp in Navy w/Red stripes.

https://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/BrooksBrothers/MA02078_NAVY-RED?$bbenlarged$


----------



## jimw

Has anyone had experience with trousers from Luxire? These flannels seem very nice - nice nap, and bespoke to boot - for $99, I can't help but wonder if there's a catch: https://custom.luxire.com/products/grey-wool-flannel?ref=yotpo_94

Thanks folks, and a Merry Christmas to all of you - hopes for a more peaceful 2016 for all.

JW


----------



## Robertson

FLCracka said:


> That's a lot going on with that combo. I would suggest the BB#3 Repp in Navy w/Red stripes.
> 
> https://s7d4.scene7.com/is/image/BrooksBrothers/MA02078_NAVY-RED?$bbenlarged$


Thank you!


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Can I get some advice on shirt/tie combos to wear with this Press Donegal Mist tweed? Just got it in the mail and threw it on for a picture so no thought was put into what I was already wearing. Thank you, kindly, gentlemen.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Ecru OCBD and maroon knit tie. Or maybe white with A&S regimental?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rmpmcdermott

Brigadier Cheape said:


> Ecru OCBD and maroon knit tie. Or maybe white with A&S regimental?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good call on both accounts! I've been wanting an Ecru OCBD for a while now anyway.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Just noticed that Newton Street Vintage has no inventory in their Etsy shop. Did Zach give up the venture?

https://www.etsy.com/shop/NewtonStreetVintage


----------



## Robertson

Any recommendations for three must-have Repp ties?

(I already have an idea for my red-stripe uni shirt above!)


----------



## jimw

Not so much a repp tie as a regimental, but I think that an Argyll & Sutherland stripe is a must purchase. I also have a Bedfordshire regimental tie, given as a gift that I'm very fond of. I'm sure other members will have some good suggestions in the way of repp stripes.

Jim



Robertson said:


> Any recommendations for three must-have Repp ties?
> 
> (I already have an idea for my red-stripe uni shirt above!)


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Robertson said:


> Any recommendations for three must-have Repp ties?
> 
> (I already have an idea for my red-stripe uni shirt above!)


Probably 80% of us have this tie: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/BB#1...var_MA02076_Color=DKRD&contentpos=4&cgid=0210


----------



## ran23

Well I have been here one year. I posted about a Christmas Eve dinner I went to and the black jackets outnumbered the navy jackets, 10 to 1. This year I dressed out a glen plaid suit, tie, braces and cuff links. I was the only suit. Only a handful of jackets, it was snowing out, so maybe overcoats was the norm, because most were in open shirts and sweaters. the ladies looked sharper. oh, this is a retirement center, so most were in their 70's.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Robertson said:


> Any recommendations for three must-have Repp ties?
> 
> (I already have an idea for my red-stripe uni shirt above!)


I second the vote for the Argyll and Sutherland as well as the BB # 1. One of my favorites is the maroon and navy Brigade of Guards regimental tie, very classic.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ensiferous

rmpmcdermott said:


> Can I get some advice on shirt/tie combos to wear with this Press Donegal Mist tweed?


rmp, probably not the best suggestions, but here are a few combos I have used with my J. Press Donegal Mist:


----------



## rmpmcdermott

^ Thanks Ensif!


----------



## LeeLo

Can we get a slow clap going for Ensiferous? :icon_hailthee:

Favorite look right here.



Ensiferous said:


> rmp, probably not the best suggestions, but here are a few combos I have used with my J. Press Donegal Mist:


----------



## LeeLo

Derm, I forgot to congratulate you on the new jacket. It's magnificent.


----------



## Ensiferous

LeeLo said:


> Favorite look right here.


Thanks LeeLo!


----------



## rmpmcdermott

LeeLo said:


> Derm, I forgot to congratulate you on the new jacket. It's magnificent.


Many thanks!


----------



## oxford cloth button down

LeeLo said:


> Can we get a slow clap going for Ensiferous? :icon_hailthee:
> 
> Favorite look right here.


----------



## fred johnson

LeeLo said:


> Can we get a slow clap going for Ensiferous? :icon_hailthee:
> 
> Favorite look right here.


Every look correct and classic!


----------



## LeeLo

:thumbs-up:


----------



## Ensiferous

Thanks guys, that sure beats dodging rotten tomatoes.


----------



## Corcovado

This has probably been covered before and if so forgive me, but here is my question: If I wear size 10 Alden LHS loafers (Van last) , and size 9.5 Alden Barrie last models such as longwing bluchers, what size would likely fit best on the Aberdeen last models such as the tassle loafer?

Thanks, gents.


----------



## Orgetorix

Corcovado said:


> This has probably been covered before and if so forgive me, but here is my question: If I wear size 10 Alden LHS loafers (Van last) , and size 9.5 Alden Barrie last models such as longwing bluchers, what size would likely fit best on the Aberdeen last models such as the tassle loafer?
> 
> Thanks, gents.


The obvious answer you already know is, go to a store and try them on to be sure.

That said, the Aberdeen is the narrowest-fitting and least-voluminous of the standard Alden lasts, so I would start with a 10 and see how that fits. You might even have to go to a 10 E if your foot tends to the wider, rather than the narrower, side.


----------



## orange fury

NYE tonight, which means the velvet dinner jacket is making its annual appearance. I'm wearing full black tie, but need help with the bow tie- I have two black bows, one satin (The Tie Bar) and one grosgrain (Beau Ties Ltd). The grosgrain is the far nicer of the two, I was wondering if it would be appropriate to wear a grosgrain now with satin lapels:


----------



## Roycru

When I wear a grosgrain tie and vest and a dinner jacket with with satin lapels nobody has an attack of the vapours. Go ahead and wear your grosgrain tie.


----------



## Corcovado

Thanks *Orgetorix*. That photo diagram is great. My feet are indeed on the wide side so it's good that I didn't order 10D in an Aberdeen last model. I played it safe and ordered 10D Van last shoes, which I know will fit.


----------



## twosoon22

Hey guys, 
Quick question, any tips on cleaning brass buttons on a navy blazer? After a little research it seems vinegar may be best, just wondering if anyone has any tips.


----------



## orange fury

Thanks Roycru!

also- box pleats (RLPL):


...or Marcella (CT):


(And yes, both need to be ironed)

I kind of want to wear the RLPL (it's a bit nicer and I've never worn it before), but I wasn't sure if the pleats would be too busy with a velvet jacket. Also, it has a MOP button strip, and I've seen in some places that MOP buttons are preferable to studs on a pleated shirt. The strip is removable and I obviously have onyx studs, but I just wanted opinions.


----------



## Roycru

You're welcome and if you want to wear the pleated shirt, wear the pleated shirt.


----------



## Kendallroberts88

Any suggestions?










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## peterlista

Quick question on chino cuff width.

I'm 6' 3" (medium build), should I order a 1.5", 1.75", or 2" cuff?

What's your intuition?


----------



## rmpmcdermott

My understanding is that 1 3/4" is pretty standard for ivy style, but 1 1/2" looks good as well. I think 2" is tough to pull off, but I'm sure some could do it. I'd say 1 3/4" for you, but honestly go with whatever you're most comfortable with. For what it's worth I'm going to be doing an O'Connell's pants order hopefully in a few weeks and I'm going with 1 3/4 cuffs. I'm a shade under 5'11" and have relatively short legs (30 inseam)


----------



## Kendallroberts88

What color tie would some recommend with a burgundy cardigan? It will be paired with dark blue chinos and a light blue shirt, walnut or cigar colored shoes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Kendallroberts88 said:


> What color tie would some recommend with a burgundy cardigan? It will be paired with dark blue chinos and a light blue shirt, walnut or cigar colored shoes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Any rep tie with blue and red would work. A maroon and red regimental stripe, the list goes on. You have many options with that combo.


----------



## MythReindeer

What is the sizing like on J. Press trousers? Does a size 30 actually have a waist circumference of 30 inches? "True to size" means nothing, I find.


----------



## toddorbertBU

Hemming/cuff question. Just picked up some flannel lined canvas pants that need to be hemmed. I get all of my regular khakis cuffed but not sure what to do about these pants. Any suggestions?


----------



## Orgetorix

Canvas sounds pretty casual, closer to jeans than chinos. I'd skip the cuffs and go for a plain hem.

If you can't stomach not having cuffs, you'll have to see if the lining can be detached from the outer material and cut off farther up in the leg so the canvas alone can form the cuff without showing flannel or getting too bulky.


----------



## JoshHF19

What adjustments do you have done to your chinos when you take them into the tailor?


----------



## rmpmcdermott

MythReindeer said:


> What is the sizing like on J. Press trousers? Does a size 30 actually have a waist circumference of 30 inches? "True to size" means nothing, I find.


I'm not sure of the answer, but if you call up a Press store I bet they'd measure for you. They're always pretty good about that, I've found.


----------



## ran23

I am new to my light brown Bailey fedora. I realize more colours are needed. For brown sport coats, light khaki trench coats, I guess a darker brown. My dark charcoal suit and dark grey tweed are the questions? black?


----------



## orange fury

I've asked several times over the past year or so about glasses recommendations, but never got around to arguably purchasing any. My glasses finally broke yesterday after 5 years (hinge and frame disentigrated), so now it's forcing me to actually get some new ones. I got a new prescription today, so I wanted to get opinions on the fit of these Oliver People's glasses.

Fairmont:


Maslon:


Sheldrake:


i also have 5 pairs of Warby Parker glasses coming in for the home try-on: Burroughs, Duckworth, Durand, Preston, and Percey.


----------



## Fading Fast

OF, I think the first two fit fine, the third one looks too wide. The first one fits the best and is most flattering to you as its shape echoes your head and chin line and, IMHO, its slightly thinner frame just feels more natural on your face. 

And a belated congrats on your marathon run. I am impressed.


----------



## FLMike

OF, I'm a fan of the OP Fairmont frame and I think it works well for you. The second is ok, not great. And, definite ixnay on the Sheldrake.

On another note....dude, that thing on your upper lip!!! :eek2:


----------



## orange fury

FLCracka said:


> OF, I'm a fan of the OP Fairmont frame and I think it works well for you. The second is ok, not great. And, definite ixnay on the Sheldrake.
> 
> On another note....dude, that thing on your upper lip!!! :eek2:


Its like a bow tie for my face? Lol I grew it out with the beard for the marathon, then realized I could wax it into a handlebar, so I've been having a bit of fun with it recently (I can't grow hair north of my ears, so apparently this was the consolation prize). Clearly, the wax on the left side (my right) wasn't cooperating for pictures today.

And thanks for the opinion on the glasses, that was the one I was leaning towards. I wanted the Sheldrake to work, but it felt like I was forcing it (like the Persol 714's)


----------



## orange fury

Thanks for the feedback guys, just paid for the Fairmont:


----------



## Fading Fast

^^^ OF, they look great on you. Enjoy your new purchase.


----------



## mhj

I recently picked up a tan corduroy sack on eBay. It was a bit tight and I had my tailor let out the side seams. As he warned me there is now a stripe of mis-matched material where the sides were opened. He said that the colors would eventually blend together but does anyone know of a way to accelerate the blending? Maybe leaving it out in the sun? (Not something I can do for a while, I live in Cleveland).


----------



## Fading Fast

^^^ The sun doesn't sound like a great idea as (1) unless it evenly hits the entire jacket you could end up fading parts of the jacket differently and (2) even if you could hit the entire jacket, there is a risk it could accentual the difference in the "new" stripe of material as the old and new might respond differently to the sunlight. 

I would encourage you to leave it out of your closet and hang it in an airy space as the now-exposed new material might need to oxidize to "catch up" with the already oxidized material that has always been exposed. That might, over time, mitigate the difference. I'm sure others will have better ideas, but that has helped me in the past (but it is a slow process). Good luck.


----------



## HOOT

Does anybody know if the Allen Edmonds Atlantis shoes offered on the J.Press website () are the same as the Allen Edmonds Macneil 2.0 in brown grain calf minus the dainite soles (Link)?


----------



## gamma68

mhj said:


> I recently picked up a tan corduroy sack on eBay. It was a bit tight and I had my tailor let out the side seams. As he warned me there is now a stripe of mis-matched material where the sides were opened. He said that the colors would eventually blend together but does anyone know of a way to accelerate the blending? Maybe leaving it out in the sun? (Not something I can do for a while, I live in Cleveland).


I hate to say it, but this is one reason why it's not good to let out corduroy. Another reason is the prior seam marks will remain visible.

I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a corduroy sack for a while. But I'll only spring for one if it needs taking in, not letting out.


----------



## FLMike

gamma68 said:


> I hate to say it, but this is one reason why it's not good to let out corduroy. Another reason is the prior seam marks will remain visible.
> 
> I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a corduroy sack for a while. But I'll only spring for one if it needs taking in, not letting out.


gamma, don't know your size but I have an olive green corduroy sack from O'Connell's in 41R that I may be willing to part with. Perfect condition.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

HOOT said:


> Does anybody know if the Allen Edmonds Atlantis shoes offered on the J.Press website () are the same as the Allen Edmonds Macneil 2.0 in brown grain calf minus the dainite soles (Link)?


Not sure about the soles, but the AE Atlantis I saw in New Haven looked like a grain MacNeil to me...


----------



## L-feld

HOOT said:


> Does anybody know if the Allen Edmonds Atlantis shoes offered on the J.Press website () are the same as the Allen Edmonds Macneil 2.0 in brown grain calf minus the dainite soles (Link)?


I have them and, so far as I can tell, they are Macneil's in brown grain, but with double oak soles instead of dainite.

No clue where the name came from.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

As I understand it, they were a special run for J Press.


----------



## HOOT

Brigadier Cheape said:


> Not sure about the soles, but the AE Atlantis I saw in New Haven looked like a grain MacNeil to me...





L-feld said:


> I have them and, so far as I can tell, they are Macneil's in brown grain, but with double oak soles instead of dainite.
> 
> No clue where the name came from.


Thanks for the replies. The reason I ask is because I'd rather go with the Macneils, since they come with dainite soles, but the photos on the Allen Edmonds website look awful so I wanted to make sure they were the same shoe as the J. Press version (save for the sole).


----------



## mhj

I couldn't help myself. It's a perfect shade of tan and a sack. Makes me look like a 64 year old Benjamin from The Graduate.:amazing:



gamma68 said:


> I hate to say it, but this is one reason why it's not good to let out corduroy. Another reason is the prior seam marks will remain visible.
> 
> I've been keeping my eyes peeled for a corduroy sack for a while. But I'll only spring for one if it needs taking in, not letting out.


----------



## WillBarrett

Just snagged a nice pair of Ferrel Reed braces - crimson paisley. What sort of tie does one pair with this?


----------



## jimw

Resole-ing with Dainite or other synthetic soles

I have two pairs of shoes needing a resole. The first are FS Imperial shells, and for these I feel that a good leather sole (possibly with protectors) is the way to go. The second are a humble pair of Weejun beef rolls with the distinction of being a EEEEE width - no longer offered. I'm thinking that a dainite sole might be best for all-round wear and durability - any thoughts? Any alternatives, synthetic-wise? I really don't want a big pair of vibram lug treads, but I do want these to be a bit more practical and hardy for day-to-day usage.

Thanks for any feedback,

Jim


----------



## ran23

will the ultra thin hangers mess up dress shirts? Or too many together mess the shirts?


----------



## jimw

Justin Trudeau

Am I just getting old, or is this look wrong, especially for an aspiring world leader . I get it that Justin is relatively young, and trying to keep a fashion-forward look as PM of Canada, but the tan shoes are simply wrong with the navy suit.


----------



## wfhoehn

jimw said:


> Justin Trudeau
> 
> Am I just getting old, or is this look wrong, especially for an aspiring world leader . I get it that Justin is relatively young, and trying to keep a fashion-forward look as PM of Canada, but the tan shoes are simply wrong with the navy suit.
> View attachment 15876


Not sure about you being old, but you're certainly not wrong. I'm a fan of walnut shoes, but those look terrible with the suit.


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

Dead wrong, especially for a head of state.


----------



## fred johnson

Brigadier Cheape said:


> Dead wrong, especially for a head of state.


Completely agree, his handlers should know better.


----------



## Fading Fast

Not my thing and not trad, but I go to a lot of meetings where that is what the under 35 year olds are wearing.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Fading Fast said:


> Not my thing and not trad, but I go to a lot of meetings where that is what the under 35 year olds are wearing.


Well, this combination may have just jumped the shark, because it's crashingly obvious in that photo that it looks bad. Like black Rockports with stone chinos: all you can see is the shoes.


----------



## Oldsport

I can be edgy also and stretch the wear of my AE Walnut Player shoes at times, but, that just doesn't work.



SlideGuitarist said:


> Well, this combination may have just jumped the shark, because it's crashingly obvious in that photo that it looks bad. Like black Rockports with stone chinos: all you can see is the shoes.


----------



## jd202

Triathlete said:


> I can be edgy also and wear my stretch my AE Walnut Player shoes at times, but, that just doesn't work.


All the more the shame that it's a nice-looking suit, and he's obviously a handsome fellow. Just one shoe color short of killing it.


----------



## Proclus

You may see my larger feedback thread of its own but I had one quick question that seemed more appropriate here: when I am out at thrift stores the main thing I see that looks good are the ties. How do you all recognize at a glance whether a tie is good quality or not. Are there specific markers that signal "stay away" or "buy this"?

To be clear: I'm not asking about style as I think I have a decent sense of what colors and patterns are good. Instead, I'm asking about build quality.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Anyone have any suggestions for a cotton shawl cardigan? I've checked out J Crew but I'm not crazy about any of their current offerings.


----------



## Fading Fast

^^^I own the basic J.Crew shawl sweater and, for the price (on one of the regularly occurring sale), it's good value. On the other end of the spectrum, I own this sweater (see below) from North Sea Clothing (https://www.northseaclothing.com/products). It is expensive, but incredibly well made - tight, heavy weave, impressive stitching, and classic lines - and, IMHO, worth the money as I think it will last for many, many years and it looks and feels meaningfully better than the J.Crew and similarly priced inexpensive ones.

While mine is wool - NorthSea make a cotton shawl cardigan.


----------



## ArtVandalay

^^^ Thanks for the lead, FF.

Another question for you all - anyone have experience with the Florsheim Ltd line? Curious if these are true to size or not. I've got a pair of the newer havilands that run a half size big, and I was hoping the Ltd's were the same. Specifically looking at this pair:


----------



## Conservative87

Would you all consider these OCBD's a trad fit? What sizing should I consider to get this sort of fit (not too slim, not billowy)? Brooks Regent or JPress classic fit?


----------



## Brigadier Cheape

It depends on your build. Assuming you were either of the chaps pictured above, I would think the Regent fit might be close.


----------



## FLMike

^+1. Depends on your build, but I'd say Regent.


----------



## Squeaky_Alexander

Hey all, 

I'm upgrading my Tie Bar ties. I recently bought a navy grenadine from Kent Wang. I'm thinking about a dark red garza grossa from Sam Hober, as I want a nice dark red tie that can become one of my staples.

Any thoughts on whether I should stick with a grenadine or consider another type of fabric? Diamond weave, oxford weave, crosgrain..?

Here's a gallery shot of the dark red grossa from Sam Hober's gallery:


----------



## Balfour

Sam Hober is outstanding and I give my unqualified endorsement of David's work - most of my ties are from there.

Grenadine is a particular favourite. Grossa is excellent (but noticeable at a few feet as 'not normal'); fina is more subtle. The burgundy is even nicer than the dark red in my view. It's always worth getting some swatches.

The only downside of grenadine is that it can snag. 

I have diamond and oxford weave ties from Hober as well. I like solids. The finish provides some interest lacking in satin (which I dislike).

A surprisingly rich option is also ancient madder (usually associated with patterns, but makes for a very nice solid tie).

If you're interested in seasonality, consider the challis wool and linen solids.


----------



## Dr. D

I have burgundy and navy grenadines from Kent Wang and they are good quality, but the Hober grenadine I own is incredible. From the rich color to the construction (I went 4-fold and can't imagine going thicker) to the drape to the knot, it is the best tie I have ever owned. Bar none. If I couldn't own any other ties I would be satisfied with only having a handful of Hober grenadines. My optimal collection would be navy, burgundy, chocolate, forest green and midnight blue with white pindots. The only problem is that once you contact David Hober and order from him you may feel the need to replace all of your other neckwear.

One thing to note - if you haven't noticed already grenadine ties are apt to snag, regardless of the maker. Especially the grossa weaves. I have not noticed a problem once I am wearing one but you do need to be especially careful when tying and removing it.


----------



## Squeaky_Alexander

Thanks for the feedback. I only hear great things about Hober.

I was thinking of getting a burgundy initially, but I worry that it's too dark. I sometimes feel that my navy is too dark already. Perhaps it would be worth it to order some swatches before I place an order. Whenever I read about the "essential ties," there's almost always a burgundy recommended. 

Dr. D, would you recommend going with the four fold or is it perhaps unnecessary?


----------



## Balfour

Four-fold is standard for grenadine and I can't imagine going for a higher fold.

The burgundy is a dark burgundy, but I like rich dark colours paired together.

Swatches always advisable, especially for the solids - the richness of the ancient madder is in no way apparent on the monitor for example.


----------



## Dr. D

I am in full agreement with Balfour: a 4-fold in burgundy would be an excellent start. If you plan to wear this for subdued and conservative occasions I would go with the elegant fina weave, although my personal preference is for the bolder grossa. But rest assured both are excellent choices.

I find burgundy pairs well with both navy and gray suits and as such it may be the most versatile color possible. Send an email to David and he can suggest a length to match your height and type of knot you prefer (I am assuming you already have a preference for a particular width). Hober grenadines are quite thick so a 4-in-hand is likely to be your best option because even a half windsor will turn out to be quite bulky. I would order a single tie initially just to be certain that you are comfortable with the dimensions and construction of the tie.

When you place your first order, heed Balfour's advice and order several swatches to be sent with your new tie. In particular, I recommend the Macclesfield patterns, especially those on a dark navy base. However, I have learned the hard way that these patterns can go out of stock never to return, so if you see one you are interested in I would act sooner rather than later. The grenadines always come back in stock eventually but many of the Macclesfield patterns do slip into permanent retirement.


----------



## Squeaky_Alexander

Dr. D said:


> I am in full agreement with Balfour: a 4-fold in burgundy would be an excellent start. If you plan to wear this for subdued and conservative occasions I would go with the elegant fina weave, although my personal preference is for the bolder grossa. But rest assured both are excellent choices.
> 
> I find burgundy pairs well with both navy and gray suits and as such it may be the most versatile color possible. Send an email to David and he can suggest a length to match your height and type of knot you prefer (I am assuming you already have a preference for a particular width). Hober grenadines are quite thick so a 4-in-hand is likely to be your best option because even a half windsor will turn out to be quite bulky. I would order a single tie initially just to be certain that you are comfortable with the dimensions and construction of the tie.
> 
> When you place your first order, heed Balfour's advice and order several swatches to be sent with your new tie. In particular, I recommend the Macclesfield patterns, especially those on a dark navy base. However, I have learned the hard way that these patterns can go out of stock never to return, so if you see one you are interested in I would act sooner rather than later. The grenadines always come back in stock eventually but many of the Macclesfield patterns do slip into permanent retirement.


Excellent.. thank you for your thoughts.


----------



## ArtVandalay

Does anyone have any experience with this Bean cardigan? https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/920...n&attrValue_0=Loden Heather&productId=1534963

It seems to me like a lot of money for an imported shawl cardigan, but I've got a $50 Bean gift card and I'm in need of a wool shawl cardigan for next fall/winter.

Any other recommendations for a better wool cable-knit shawl are appreciated as well.


----------



## DLW

When buying a dress shirt should one size up sleeve size to allow for shrinkage. I measure a 16 neck 32 sleeve and have always purchased a 32-length sleeve. I've noticed some of my shirts have lost a ¼ inch over time, others a tad more. Some have remained the same. Should I be sizing up to a 33- length to allow for shrinkage or is ¼ inch nothing to worry about. All the shirts are from the same manufacture.


----------



## FLMike

^I buy my measured size in dress shirts (mostly BB), but I suppose it depends on the make of shirt and its tendency to shrink, as well as your laundering practices and, finally, how you prefer your sleeves to fit.


----------



## orange fury

I posted this over in Acquisitions, but figured I'd ask here too. Does anyone know anything about Polo University? I've been able to find all sorts of info on Polo University Club (targeted to college graduates in the early-mid 80's, fairly decent, but not as good as Polo mainline), and I know they dropped "Club" from the name in the late 80's, but I can seem to find any info on the line from then until it was ended. What I would assume to be a union tag on the jacket I purchased is completely faded, so I can't even tell a country of origin. Any thoughts appreciated, as I'm looking at another Polo University jacket as well.

Also, this is the label:


----------



## fred johnson

orange fury said:


> I posted this over in Acquisitions, but figured I'd ask here too. Does anyone know anything about Polo University? I've been able to find all sorts of info on Polo University Club (targeted to college graduates in the early-mid 80's, fairly decent, but not as good as Polo mainline), and I know they dropped "Club" from the name in the late 80's, but I can seem to find any info on the line from then until it was ended. What I would assume to be a union tag on the jacket I purchased is completely faded, so I can't even tell a country of origin. Any thoughts appreciated, as I'm looking at another Polo University jacket as well.
> 
> Also, this is the label:


I have some Polo U stuff from years ago, purchased new, which is still going strong. I found the quality and construction to be quite good.


----------



## Flaminiom

Hey all. Does this look too much like a suit jacket and not sports coat? Charcoal w/ blue stripes. I plan to have the sleeves let out.


----------



## swils8610

Looks like a suit coat to me.


----------



## FLMike

Suit jacket all day long.


----------



## eagle2250

More orphan than sport coat! Time to take that "one-way" walk to the Goodwill Store.


----------



## Flaminiom

I was afraid of that... It is a heavier flannel texture, but still looks suit-like.

How about something this? Gun shy about gray.


----------



## SlideGuitarist

Flaminiom said:


> I was afraid of that... It is a heavier flannel texture, but still looks suit-like.
> 
> How about something this? Gun shy about gray.


What are you trying to achieve? That jacket still seems pretty suit-y, notwithstanding the way it's depicted here. Plus that dark shirt looks dowdy: I know that's the thing now, but it's a bad thing.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Oldsport

Are you in the correct forum? This side is more Ivy Style, preppy. What you've shown so far is anything but that.



Flaminiom said:


> I was afraid of that... It is a heavier flannel texture, but still looks suit-like.
> 
> How about something this? Gun shy about gray.


----------



## HanEyeAm

Hi All, what makes some jacket center front panels stick straight out (I have on a baggy tshirt for the pic, but certainly wear a dress shirt when leaving the house)?

My guess is stiff fused material in the center front panels is the culprit in this Banana Republic cotton sport coat. What do you think? Is there any hope of reining it in? Thanks!

(Disclosure: no hits in a couple of days on Styleforum's tailor thread, so I'm hitting up the enlightened Tradfolk on AAAC!)


----------



## Fading Fast

^^^My guess is you are correct that it is fused and, even for fused, poorly constructed so that it is not only stiff but "lays" wrong as you noted. 

You could try a thoughtful tailor who might be able to press it to lay better on you, but too much heat in pressing could screw it up completely (either "melt" the underlying material or have the underlying material and exterior fabric shrink differently and create wrinkling or odd creases). Also, my experience has been that, most of the time, clothes have a "memory" and tend to go back to the shape they started with before pressing unless a true alteration by a tailor to the fabric was also made. 

That said, I have occasionally had some success with a good pressing, but try to find a tailor who cares and understands what you want, not your local dry cleaner where your instructions might never make it to the person doing the pressing.


----------



## HanEyeAm

Fading Fast said:


> ^^^My guess is you are correct that it is fused and, even for fused, poorly constructed so that it is not only stiff but "lays" wrong as you noted.
> 
> You could try a thoughtful tailor who might be able to press it to lay better on you, but too much heat in pressing could screw it up completely (either "melt" the underlying material or have the underlying material and exterior fabric shrink differently and create wrinkling or odd creases). Also, my experience has been that, most of the time, clothes have a "memory" and tend to go back to the shape they started with before pressing unless a true alteration by a tailor to the fabric was also made.
> 
> That said, I have occasionally had some success with a good pressing, but try to find a tailor who cares and understands what you want, not your local dry cleaner where your instructions might never make it to the person doing the pressing.


Thanks FF!


----------



## jfo2010

HanEyeAm said:


> Hi All, what makes some jacket center front panels stick straight out (I have on a baggy tshirt for the pic, but certainly wear a dress shirt when leaving the house)?
> 
> My guess is stiff fused material in the center front panels is the culprit in this Banana Republic cotton sport coat. What do you think? Is there any hope of reining it in? Thanks!
> 
> (Disclosure: no hits in a couple of days on Styleforum's tailor thread, so I'm hitting up the enlightened Tradfolk on AAAC!)


If that is the jacquard coat from BR, I have it too. Mine lays flat though. Get compliments every time I wear it.


----------



## HanEyeAm

jfo2010 said:


> If that is the jacquard coat from BR, I have it too. Mine lays flat though. Get compliments every time I wear it.


It's not the Heritage Jacquard, but I'm not sure model it is. It is cotton in a rough weave (don't know what it's called).

I wouldn't exactly say my gut is pushing out the panels, but perhaps a slimmer belly would allow it to drape differently.


----------



## JohnAAG

Hi
Can anyone suggest a long sleeve madras shirt with a camp collar? I've checked out the ones from Bean, Relwen and J Peterman. Pattern-wise, I'd liked something classic but not too loud (the JP one is a little too much for my personal style). Thanks!


----------



## jimw

I'm fixated on (and covet) this regimental stripe tie (Bedfordshire - tumblr_m8nm98cdPc1r9rnkno1_1280.jpg), but when I look at the British regimental shops, its a different looking thing altogether. Someone who responded to this guy's thread mentioned Lands' End. Any suggestions?

Jim


----------



## WillBarrett

I snagged a nice pair of Hanover longwings the other day - would like to sell them and need some advice on polishing them...


----------



## hoosier1

Wondering if anyone would be so kind to help me identify the suit I picked up today. It is a 100% wool, charcoal colored suit (trousers not shown but I do have them) with the name "Steck's Clothing, Shoes" on the inside as well as another tag, which is shown in the pictures. The jacket fits nicely and overall needs very minor tweaks to get it perfect.

I did a search online and the only information I could find was that there used to be a men's clothing store called "Steck's" in Muncie, IN but from what I can find, it's no longer in existence. An old postcard I found on eBay shows the store name and an advertisement for Florsheim, so I'm assuming it was a decently nice store. Just wanting to know what type of suit I got my hands on if anyone has information. Thanks!

https://s1226.photobucket.com/user/nick_ryan3/story


----------



## top secret

*Darken leather boat shoes*

Does anyone have any recommendations for darkening a pair of leather boat shoes?

I got a great deal on a pair of , but as I'm breaking them in I really wish they looked more like the .

Because of the contrast stitching, I'm precluded from using any sort of dye or polish. I'm thinking of trying neatsfoot oil, coconut oil or mink oil. Any tips or tricks?


----------



## eagleman

top secret said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for darkening a pair of leather boat shoes?
> 
> I got a great deal on a pair of , but as I'm breaking them in I really wish they looked more like the .
> 
> Because of the contrast stitching, I'm precluded from using any sort of dye or polish. I'm thinking of trying neatsfoot oil, coconut oil or mink oil. Any tips or tricks?


i use neatsfoot oil to darken and soften mine.


----------



## top secret

eagleman said:


> i use neatsfoot oil to darken and soften mine.


Thanks eagleman! I'm humbled that your first post was a bit of advice for me!


----------



## JohnAAG

JohnAAG said:


> Hi
> Can anyone suggest a long sleeve madras shirt with a camp collar? I've checked out the ones from Bean, Relwen and J Peterman. Pattern-wise, I'd liked something classic but not too loud (the JP one is a little too much for my personal style). Thanks!


Just bumping this to see if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks!


----------



## eagleman

top secret said:


> Thanks eagleman! I'm humbled that your first post was a bit of advice for me!


I am fairly new to this forum and I enjoy reading the posts. Thanks!


----------



## Conservative87

With the Brooks Brothers Semi-Annual sale upon us, would anyone mind sharing the lapel widths for the 1818 Madison sack blazer


----------



## Fading Fast

Over on the fashion side of the house, there is a long thread going "What's Up With Blue Dress Shoes" that is kinda of fun to go through, but got me to thinking - is there any Trad origin to / examples of Trad blue dress shoes or is it a new thing or, if not new, was it always an unconventional choice?


----------



## Orgetorix

New and awful.


----------



## Reuben

Fading Fast said:


> Over on the fashion side of the house, there is a long thread going "What's Up With Blue Dress Shoes" that is kinda of fun to go through, but got me to thinking - is there any Trad origin to / examples of Trad blue dress shoes or is it a new thing or, if not new, was it always an unconventional choice?


----------



## FLMike

Orgetorix said:


> New and awful.


+1. Blue dress shoes are completely useless in my opinion.


----------



## Fading Fast

FLMike said:


> +1. Blue dress shoes are completely useless in my opinion.


So no Trad / Ivy hint of an origin (had never read about or seen any hint of it myself) - thank you gentlemen.


----------



## FLMike

Fading Fast said:


> So no Trad / Ivy hint of an origin (had never read about or seen any hint of it myself) - thank you gentlemen.


Not that I'm aware of, but I am not a Trad/Ivy expert, by any stretch.


----------



## top secret

Does anyone know when Allen Edmonds is having their next recrafting sale? I recall they've offered discounts occasionally in the past, but haven't seen anything lately.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## jimw

I am watching this BB sack on eBay - - while I like the green/red/tan check, I'm not sure how this look should be finished - colour of trousers, shirts, etc. Let me know your thoughts, and thanks.

JW


----------



## eagle2250

^^
My inclination would be to pair it with navy trousers, a white OCBD and a nice, appropriately toned emblematic tie. Khaki hued trousers would work as well.


----------



## jimw

Thanks for your thoughts, Eagle - I did decide to pull the trigger on this, and hope its fun to see what combinations work well here.

Jim



eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> My inclination would be to pair it with navy trousers, a white OCBD and a nice, appropriately toned emblematic tie. Khaki hued trousers would work as well.


----------



## Reuben

Suggestions for a tailor/cobbler/drycleaner/barber in (east) Atlanta? Looking for both a good tailor for more difficult alterations and a quick, cheap one for easy jobs like hemming pants.


----------



## Hay Fever

I have the following issue with shirts: While they fit correctly when I am standing, there is a placket gape at the waist area when I sit, espeially when I slouch. My waist measures around 32-33 inches and my shirts measure at their slimmest point around 37-39.


----------



## Orgetorix

Either your shirts are too slim or you're tucking too much material to the sides/back when you tuck your shirt in. When we sit, our stomachs normally protrude more, even if we're not that overweight, and unless there's some slack in the material, you're going to have that issue.


----------



## wacolo

Orgetorix said:


> Either your shirts are too slim or you're tucking too much material to the sides/back when you tuck your shirt in. When we sit, our stomachs normally protrude more, even if we're not that overweight, and unless there's some slack in the material, you're going to have that issue.


+1 Yup.


----------



## FLMike

Could it also be that his rise is too low/short?


----------



## Charles Dana

FLMike said:


> Could it also be that his rise is too low/short?


That's an astute consideration. In this time of trouser rises that are woefully inadequate, it's no wonder that men--young ones, anyway--are so obsessed with how their shirts fit around their waist. Tuck a shirt into a proper rise, and shirt waist problems disappear. The full rise swallows those problems.


----------



## Hay Fever

Actually, all my trousers' rise is 12''.


----------



## Corcovado

This is probably a rehash of somebody else's previous question but... Where can I order or purchase a pair of Alden Leisure Handsewn loafers in cigar shell these days? Thanks.


----------



## Orgetorix

Corcovado said:


> This is probably a rehash of somebody else's previous question but... Where can I order or purchase a pair of Alden Leisure Handsewn loafers in cigar shell these days? Thanks.


Odds are, you can't. Not immediately, anyway. You can call around to various Alden shops and stockists and see if there's a waiting list you can get on for a future production run, but the specialty shell colors (anything other than black and #8) have been in such short supply for several years now that they're rarely available on store shelves.

You could try Alden Carmel, Alden in DC, Leffot, Leather Soul, The Shoe Mart, etc.


----------



## Charles Dana

Hay Fever said:


> Actually, all my trousers' rise is 12''.


Good! In that case, perhaps you could post photos of yourself (standing and sitting) so that we can take a shot at isolating the cause of your difficulty. Without pictures, all we can do is guess.


----------



## Corcovado

Where are some good, reputable places to buy a vintage wrist watch? (Good selection, fair pricing, good customer service, etc)


----------



## Dhaller

Corcovado said:


> Where are some good, reputable places to buy a vintage wrist watch? (Good selection, fair pricing, good customer service, etc)


Honestly, it's hard to beat Ebay: secure transactions, buyer (and seller) protections, global reach, searchable feedback, etc. It helps to actually know your stuff, of course, but the bar to sell on Ebay is ever-higher.

DH


----------



## Fading Fast

Dhaller said:


> Honestly, it's hard to beat Ebay: secure transactions, buyer (and seller) protections, global reach, searchable feedback, etc. It helps to actually know your stuff, of course, but the bar to sell on Ebay is ever-higher.
> 
> DH


I can only echo these thoughts as someone who has bought several vintage watches on Ebay. You do, as with anything you buy anywhere, have to have at least a modest understand the the market and value. Also, pay attention to the history, ratings and location (there are some parts of the world that are known for counterfeits and shady dealing) of the seller - if in doubt, pass.

But if you do those few things, the value on Ebay is outstanding versus going to a vintage watch dealer. And the one problem I had - a watch was advertised in "good working order," but didn't run - was resolved easily and to my full satisfaction using Ebay's resolution process.

Good luck.


----------



## Radio Free Eurasia

Anybody have thoughts on good ways to ameliorate fraying on sleeve corners? I got this jacket, which is beautiful and fits incredibly well, very inexpensively because of this wear so I knew what I was getting into. However, if there is a fix it would be nice to stop the bleeding. I'm going to ask my tailor for advice as well but didn't know if there was a tried and tested method. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jimw

Fading Fast said:


> I can only echo these thoughts as someone who has bought several vintage watches on Ebay. You do, as with anything you buy anywhere, have to have at least a modest understand the the market and value. Also, pay attention to the history, ratings and location (there are some parts of the world that are known for counterfeits and shady dealing) of the seller - if in doubt, pass.
> 
> But if you do those few things, the value on Ebay is outstanding versus going to a vintage watch dealer. And the one problem I had - a watch was advertised in "good working order," but didn't run - was resolved easily and to my full satisfaction using Ebay's resolution process.
> 
> Good luck.


I agree with what FF has to say on the topic - most online dealers of some experience have a reputation to protect, and should be reasonably transparent.

The one thing every potential watch buyer should expect is a photo of the movement. My one regret was in purchasing a vintage Cyma from India, only to find that years of humidity left the inner case and workings fairly corroded. On that note, its wise to beware of buying from potential chop-shops in third world countries.

My 0.02 on the subject,

Jim


----------



## Robertson

What shirt and tie would go with this Taupe Windowpane jacket?


----------



## jimw

I picked this up from a Sally Ann the other day, and aside from liking the tie itself, I am curious about the maker. Can anybody shed some light on this? Thanks.

https://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q681/jww1067/tie_zpszi6gguoq.jpg
https://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q681/jww1067/tie2_zpsftmdtdw8.jpg


----------



## CornoUltimo

I ordered a LE Hyde park OCBD to see if it would work. The fit and fabric is okay for a $50 shirt ($30 on sale) 
Here is the collar roll as is:

Right now the collar roll is okay by my standards, but I'm concerned if washing it will reduce the roll. Do you think it's good, or should I return it and get an LLBean one instead?


----------



## Orgetorix

I've never known normal wear-in shrinkage to affect a collar's roll.


----------



## Howard

I was just wondering, What color dress shirt goes well with red dress pants? brown pants? black pants? gray pants?


----------



## jpgr

Hi. Watching this blazer on eBay: 

I already know it fits because I've tried on the same one at Nordstrom. Tell me about buttons. They should be brass on this one, right?


----------



## jimw

JPGR, it looks to be either a suit separate or an orphaned suit jacket, so it wouldn't necessarily have metallic blazer buttons. That's one of the few distinguishing traits of a 'blazer' in the pedantic sense: brass buttons. Some people (myself included) prefer to tone it down, using silver or pewter buttons, and others will tell you that only gold toned buttons are appropriate to a blazer. If it fits you, do what you want - certainly can't hurt if it has you feeling better about your jacket.



jpgr said:


> Hi. Watching this blazer on eBay:
> 
> I already know it fits because I've tried on the same one at Nordstrom. Tell me about buttons. They should be brass on this one, right?


----------



## jpgr

Thanks. It's not an orphaned suit jacket. It's new with tags, and the SKU is the same as the Navy Blazer sold at Nordstrom (off the rack with the black plastic buttons). If the price stays where it is, maybe I'll just get a nice set of pewter or antique brass buttons for it.



jimw said:


> JPGR, it looks to be either a suit separate or an orphaned suit jacket, so it wouldn't necessarily have metallic blazer buttons. That's one of the few distinguishing traits of a 'blazer' in the pedantic sense: brass buttons. Some people (myself included) prefer to tone it down, using silver or pewter buttons, and others will tell you that only gold toned buttons are appropriate to a blazer. If it fits you, do what you want - certainly can't hurt if it has you feeling better about your jacket.


----------



## Howard

Howard said:


> I was just wondering, What color dress shirt goes well with red dress pants? brown pants? black pants? gray pants?


Is there a color code chart that answers my question?


----------



## 3rd&17

Would a melange herringbone tie be considered informal in most settings? I'm looking to use this tie potentially for interviews and for work in general (business formal). Here is the tie in question from BB's website.


----------



## Fading Fast

Howard said:


> Is there a color code chart that answers my question?


Howard, you might find this link helpful https://www.realmenrealstyle.com/color-wheel-menswear/

Also, red dress pants are not common, but if you have a pair and since red in pants is definitely a stand out color, you should go with something basic in the shirt, white or maybe a light blue, but I'd stick to white.


----------



## Howard

Fading Fast said:


> Howard, you might find this link helpful https://www.realmenrealstyle.com/color-wheel-menswear/
> 
> Also, red dress pants are not common, but if you have a pair and since red in pants is definitely a stand out color, you should go with something basic in the shirt, white or maybe a light blue, but I'd stick to white.


Thanks, I just bookmarked it for future reference.


----------



## baspluim

jpgr said:


> Hi. Watching this blazer on eBay:
> 
> I already know it fits because I've tried on the same one at Nordstrom. Tell me about buttons. They should be brass on this one, right?


There are lots of subtle variations, guidelines, and opinions, but a blazer is essentially a gray or navy sport coat with metal buttons. Traditionally, the buttons are brass, but silver/ pewter are an acceptable alternative, and give you less of that Captain Marina look. If it fits, go for it. You can pick up some nice buttons on eBay for $10-$20, and the cost of swapping them out is negligible if you need to have the sleeves shortened anyway.


----------



## jpgr

baspluim said:


> There are lots of subtle variations, guidelines, and opinions, but a blazer is essentially a gray or navy sport coat with metal buttons. Traditionally, the buttons are brass, but silver/ pewter are an acceptable alternative, and give you less of that Captain Marina look. If it fits, go for it. You can pick up some nice buttons on eBay for $10-$20, and the cost of swapping them out is negligible if you need to have the sleeves shortened anyway.


That's kind of what I thought. It's not a high end blazer, but if I can get it for $60 then I don't mind a few $$ for buttons. The sleeves, as you suggest, will be too long OTR so it's an easy fix.

Thanks.


----------



## Charles Dana

3rd&17 said:


> Would a melange herringbone tie be considered informal in most settings? I'm looking to use this tie potentially for interviews and for work in general (business formal). Here is the tie in question from BB's website.


I don't think a herringbone pattern in and of itself automatically puts a tie into the "informal" category, especially if the tie is dark blue or burgundy. The brownish tie above would probably go well with a grey flannel suit. However, its brown-ness--and the sharply-defined herringbone pattern that the brown-ness brings out--would discourage me from wearing it with a more refined suiting. I also would not wear that particular tie to a job interview; I'd go with a tie that didn't call attention to itself.

Wear the above tie with a flannel suit or any number of autumn/winter sport coats once you already have the job.

This is just my preference. Actually, the tie is inoffensive enough that even if you wore it with a refined suit, nobody would have an adverse reaction. I just think that for job interviews, there are better options.


----------



## KJD89

I'm looking for something similar to the LLBean Town & Country pant featured in this Ivy Style post from 2009. I wanted them back then, but didn't have the opportunity, and now I can't seem to find anything that really fits in this category. I'm tired of wearing chinos or jeans with several layers under them in the winter, and I'd like something warmer that isn't too formal looking. A "casual" wool pant? Is there anything like that on the market right now? What would my next best bet be otherwise?

https://www.ivy-style.com/making-the-grade-ll-beans-town-field-pant.html


----------



## MythReindeer

KJD89 said:


> I'm looking for something similar to the LLBean Town & Country pant featured in this Ivy Style post from 2009. I wanted them back then, but didn't have the opportunity, and now I can't seem to find anything that really fits in this category. I'm tired of wearing chinos or jeans with several layers under them in the winter, and I'd like something warmer that isn't too formal looking. A "casual" wool pant? Is there anything like that on the market right now? What would my next best bet be otherwise?
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/making-the-grade-ll-beans-town-field-pant.html


I have no experience with them but maybe these would work for you:


----------



## phyrpowr

MythReindeer said:


> I have no experience with them but maybe these would work for you:


I got pretty much those same trousers in grey whipcord (as Town & Country) and they were excellent. Unfortunately, they fell victim to the dread "closet shrinkage", and these pants have NO extra material to let them out.


----------



## Fading Fast

Hi,

What are people's view on Quoddy mocs as we are thinking of getting a pair of the Grizzly or Dawson Mocs for my girlfriend's dad for xmas, but wanted to get some input from this smart, experienced group first. 

They would be for him to use in the house, in his workshop (smooth concrete floor) and maybe running light errands, but not heavy walking or on rough or wet terrain. 

The idea is for it to be a fun Christmas gifts so we'd customize the colors to his taste. 

Thank you advance for any guidance / input.


----------



## niv

Does anyone know if you can remove pleats from a pair of wool suit pants without destroying it?


----------



## wacolo

niv said:


> Does anyone know if you can remove pleats from a pair of wool suit pants without destroying it?


Absolutely. Have seen it done quite a few times with no ill effects. The waistband is removed, the extra material is taken out and everything is sewn back. That is a bit of an oversimplification, but you get the idea. It is not necessarily cheap as it is a fair amount of labor, but it can be done. When I was a at JAB all of the pleat removals were sent to and off site tailoring service called NTS. As I recall the price was ~$50 for in house garment and ~$60 for outside goods. I never had an issue with any of the work when it came back.


----------



## Fading Fast

I just put on a new pair of chinos (that I washed and dried a few times to get the shrinking done) and they were a bit long. When I measured them against my other pants, they were between 1/2" and 1" longer, so I pinned them up 3/4" checked - they looked good - and walked over to the tailor. This is just the local dry cleaner tailor who I only trust with simple stuff like this (no suit alterations, etc.). 

She was surprised that I wanted to take pants up only 3/4" as she didn't think that would make much of a different. I thanked her, but asked her to do it anyway, which she said she would.

So I wanted to ask this group - I've shortened or lengthened pants by as little as 1/2" (not often, but I have), is that crazy? What is your smallest alteration increment for length of trousers?


----------



## LeeLo

It's not crazy. Other people don't have the same eye for detail that we do (even your average seamstress). I'm assuming it was a minimal charge. In that case it's money well spent to take a pair of pants from a good to great silhouette.


----------



## Fading Fast

LeeLo said:


> It's not crazy. Other people don't have the same eye for detail that we do (even your average seamstress). I'm assuming it was a minimal charge. In that case it's money well spent to take a pair of pants from a good to great silhouette.


Thank you for the color. It's NYC - so, unfortunately, nothing is minimal - but $15 is reasonable in this crazy place to, as you said, improve the silhouette. They were +/- at full price $220 chinos that I bought on close out for about $60 at the end of last season (and waited all summer for the weather to get cold enough so that I could wear them). Hence, for $75, I will now have a pair of $220 (about that anyway) chinos. I'm happy with the investment, was just surprised by her dismissal of 3/4" as having no impact.


----------



## Fading Fast

LeeLo said:


> It's not crazy. Other people don't have the same eye for detail that we do (even your average seamstress). I'm assuming it was a minimal charge. In that case it's money well spent to take a pair of pants from a good to great silhouette.


Got them back yesterday and in my girlfriend's and my opinion the 3/4" made all the difference in the world. Before, they were "bunching up" at the bottom, now they have one clean break.

She said it best, "before you / they looked a bit sloppy, now they just 'look right'."

I thought more AAAC members would have weighed in on this topic - is altering pants length by 3/4" silly (as the dry clean thought) or not?


----------



## Orgetorix

Of course not. 3/4" can make a huge difference, as you've already found out.


----------



## oxford cloth button down

Not silly at all. 1" makes a world of difference. Especially in pant length, jacket shoulders, collars, etc.


----------



## alkydrinker

Does O'Connell's provide a UPS tracking # when an item has shipped?

This is my first order from OC....when I log into my account the order status is "Complete" and shipping method is UPS Ground, but there is no tracking #. The order was placed on 10/12 and it's for a pair of pants that needed to be hemmed.

Just asking because I live in a city with package theft problems. So, I like to monitor all my packages, and sometimes use UPS option to re-route to a pick up location rather than have them leave it on my porch.


----------



## ThomGault

alkydrinker said:


> Does O'Connell's provide a UPS tracking # when an item has shipped?


No---they didn't send me tracking information when I placed an order earlier this month. Actually, O'Connell's didn't even provide email notification of order acceptance.
The only way I knew my order was on the way was through my UPS account, which is linked to my address to provide all shipping information.


----------



## niv

I always receive a UPS tracking number when it ships.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## August West

niv said:


> I always receive a UPS tracking number when it ships.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So do I

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## buildingWardrobe

https://postimg.org/image/4x6e9hqyx/

Not a trad specific question, but I just bought a new suit and there's some extra fabric at the bottom of the crotch of the suit pants. What's it there for and is it usually removed before wearing the suit?


----------



## Orgetorix

It's probably there to minimize the friction effect of one's thighs rubbing together and extend the life of the trousers.


----------



## MythReindeer

Fading Fast said:


> Hi,
> 
> What are people's view on Quoddy mocs as we are thinking of getting a pair of the Grizzly or Dawson Mocs for my girlfriend's dad for xmas, but wanted to get some input from this smart, experienced group first.
> 
> They would be for him to use in the house, in his workshop (smooth concrete floor) and maybe running light errands, but not heavy walking or on rough or wet terrain.
> 
> The idea is for it to be a fun Christmas gifts so we'd customize the colors to his taste.
> 
> Thank you advance for any guidance / input.


I can't speak to those particular models, but I have some Maliseet blucher mocs from Quoddy and they are some of my favorite shoes. The folks at Quoddy are very helpful in my experience. They will send you a leather sample if you want to view something unfamiliar. You often aren't limited by the leather choices available on any one shoe's page: they might make it in another leather they have available elsewhere on the site (with some exceptions, surely).

My impression is that the Chromepak leather used for the soles is pretty tough stuff. It will probably stand up to the use you describe, but I encourage you to reach out to Quoddy and ask.


----------



## Fading Fast

MythReindeer said:


> I can't speak to those particular models, but I have some Maliseet blucher mocs from Quoddy and they are some of my favorite shoes. The folks at Quoddy are very helpful in my experience. They will send you a leather sample if you want to view something unfamiliar. You often aren't limited by the leather choices available on any one shoe's page: they might make it in another leather they have available elsewhere on the site (with some exceptions, surely).
> 
> My impression is that the Chromepak leather used for the soles is pretty tough stuff. It will probably stand up to the use you describe, but I encourage you to reach out to Quoddy and ask.


Thank you - great color. I have been in touch with Quoddy via email and, as you said, they've been really, really helpful. My girlfriend and I are just still playing around with some of the color choices.


----------



## top secret

Does anyone have any experience with the Lands End "Casual Chino Pants"? Currently, it looks like the standard colors are only available in "traditional fit": 

I'm interested in the quality of the cloth and construction, as well as the fit. For reference, my go-to workweek chinos are BB Clark Advantage and LLB Double L Classic Fit.


----------



## jfo2010

Can you guys help me out with this sportcoat and trouser pairing? Light brown sportcoat with dark brown birdseye trousers. The sportcoat has somewhat of a pattern and I'm unsure if it clashes with the birdseye trousers. I think links would probably be better than pics to see the patterns clearly. Thanks!!!!

https://us.suitsupply.com/en_US/jac...I.html?cgid=Jackets&prefn1=color&prefv1=Brown


----------



## Shiny

So, I've been getting a callus on my right pinky toe. I'm 47 and it could be my feet are changing. Some of my old D width shoes are contributing to this, but only on my right toe. Also, I stopped running due to a knee injury about a year ago. Mainly, just bicycle now, but that is not as often since it takes me a lot longer to get a full on sweat workout with biking vs. a 30 min run. Finally, I'm a little flat footed. I've been reading that I should use orthotics. However, I remember a long time ago (maybe 10 years ago) I tried them and my feet didn't agree with them. It was just a painful experience the orthotics gave me by pushing up my arch.

Any solutions? Should I go with E width shoes (only on right shoe?). Some of the shoes that give me the least discomfort are Barrie Alden shoes. But when I wear some shoes that aggravate the pinky it could be that the callous grows and previously comfortable shoes hurt as well. Thanks.


----------



## smmrfld

Shiny said:


> So, I've been getting a callus on my right pinky toe. I'm 47 and it could be my feet are changing. Some of my old D width shoes are contributing to this, but only on my right toe. Also, I stopped running due to a knee injury about a year ago. Mainly, just bicycle now, but that is not as often since it takes me a lot longer to get a full on sweat workout with biking vs. a 30 min run. Finally, I'm a little flat footed. I've been reading that I should use orthotics. However, I remember a long time ago (maybe 10 years ago) I tried them and my feet didn't agree with them. It was just a painful experience the orthotics gave me by pushing up my arch.
> 
> Any solutions? Should I go with E width shoes (only on right shoe?). Some of the shoes that give me the least discomfort are Barrie Alden shoes. But when I wear some shoes that aggravate the pinky it could be that the callous grows and previously comfortable shoes hurt as well. Thanks.


Go to Moulded Shoe in NYC as soon as possible...they specialize in this stuff.


----------



## eagle2250

^^+1...
and I would add, schedule an appointment to see your podiatrist!


----------



## jimw

Am looking at this FrankenShoe from Sebago - half penny, half deck shoe. and I sorta like it, but also think its weird. Does anybody else own the Sebago Sloop? Comments?

Jim


----------



## CSG

Yes, it's weird. Plus, I hate the brand tag.


----------



## Robertson

Of these various ties I've collected over the years, which would you keep?


----------



## Robertson

Same questions, which shirts would you keep or get rid of?










Sorry about the poor photo quality


----------



## Orgetorix

Robertson said:


> Of these various ties I've collected over the years, which would you keep?


Counting from the left, I'd keep ties 2, 3, 6, and _maybe_ 8.



Robertson said:


> Same questions, which shirts would you keep or get rid of?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry about the poor photo quality


I'd keep 1, 2, 5, maybe 6, and 8.


----------



## Robertson

Thank you!


----------



## Fading Fast

I agree on the ties (but would probably drop 8). 

On the shirts, my monitor isn't great, but I like 5 and 7 the most, but agree that Orgetorix's suggestions could be keepers depending on your personal style.


----------



## niv

Orgetorix said:


> Counting from the left, I'd keep ties 2, 3, 6, and _maybe_ 8


If tie #7 is Madras, I'd keep that one also.


----------



## CSG

Robertson said:


> Of these various ties I've collected over the years, which would you keep?


The blue with red stripes and the red with yellow and black stripes. I would have never bought the others in the first place.


----------



## Robertson

Thank you for the help everyone! My wife gave me a few of those so they are harder to give away to goodwill than one would suspect...


----------



## Oldsport

From the left I'd keep:

3, 6, and 7



Robertson said:


> Of these various ties I've collected over the years, which would you keep?


----------



## jimw

Good day - I acquired this sack BB sports coat last Spring, and it was forgotten in the closet until now. Its a very nice pattern, but I'm wondering about the fabric - almost seems like a tight cotton weave, but given that it has a full formal lining I suspect it might be a wool/cotton blend? Is this possible? Is it silk? Sorry to ask, but I've always had a hard time articulating the tactile qualities of fabric.

I've attached a photo below - it is a bit wrinkled, but it almost has a light pucker, albeit it not to the degree of a linen or cotton seersucker.

Thanks, all.

Jim
https://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q681/jww1067/IMG_1023_zpseq73pbt4.jpg


----------



## Orgetorix

Yeah, it's impossible to tell fabric content from a picture. It looks like cotton to me, but it could have wool or linen blended in. 

I wouldn't take any cues from the lining, though - no particular reason a cotton jacket would or wouldn't have a full lining.


----------



## niegoslav

Greetings everyone! It's my first post, so I'm happy to say hello to you guys for the first time. I am aspiring trad-style student from Poland!
Anyway, lately I came across this tie; got it for about 3$ secondhand. 100% silk, it is 9,5 cm wide. However, since it is "limited edition" I am curious if you guys recognize the logo on it?


----------



## ArtVandalay

As far as odd trousers go, what color is more versatile -- charcoal or light grey?


----------



## August West

ArtVandalay said:


> As far as odd trousers go, what color is more versatile -- charcoal or light grey?
> 
> View attachment 16896
> View attachment 16897


To my eye, The second pair seem to look more medium grey, which I would consider to be more versatile.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ThomGault

ArtVandalay said:


> As far as odd trousers go, what color is more versatile -- charcoal or light grey?
> 
> View attachment 16896
> View attachment 16897


 I don't know the standard AAAC answer, but I find medium grey most versatile, then probably light grey, then charcoal. But it also depends on the situation in which you will generally find yourself.


----------



## Fading Fast

I find charcoal grey dress pants sound good in theory, but then are hard to use as they are too dark for most of my sport coats - whereas, a medium or light grey goes with most of them. Medium grey, IMHO, is insanely versatile while light is pretty good, but I've alway struggled a bit with dark grey.


----------



## alkydrinker

^^ Is there a conventional, "hive mind" wisdom on charcoal pants? 

I got a pair a few months back and searched around for advice on how they are worn best and couldn't find too much info. I considered starting a new thread about it, but never did. I suppose there is a challenge right off the bat, in that to get sufficient contrast, you'll need a lighter jacket. This is sometimes called a "northern lights" look (lighter on top) and can be done really well, however it is famous for being trickier than doing jacket-darker-than-pants.


----------



## ThomGault

alkydrinker said:


> ^^ Is there a conventional, "hive mind" wisdom on charcoal pants?


 I don't know, its definitely possible, as I've had a similar sentiment on other issues. However, I think my opinion derives simply from experience. When I began wearing suits on a regular basis for work which required regular appearances in court, my go-to outfit was a charcoal suit with black cap toe shoes. This served me well, and I wore it at least a couple times each week...however, I felt limited to wearing only solid black socks and conservative repp ties. During the intervening years, I changed to a less formal office job and was able to branch out and try different styles. This past fall, I ordered a few trousers in various colors, including charcoal, brown, and medium grey. Even though the charcoal pants were in my comfort zone, I found it easier and more 'fun' to pick my clothes each morning when I chose medium grey trousers instead of charcoal. This also correlated to my shoe collection shifting from 60/40 black/brown to a higher concentration of off-brown shades like merlot, oxblood, and walnut. I acknowledge that this forum was a factor in my newfound color choices, but I also must admit that I feel much more freedom when picking my clothes. Charcoal trousers and suits with black shoes have a place in life, but they're now not my only option.


----------



## BuddyJ

I'm looking for recommendation on inexpensive belts. All I have currently is a cheap reversible black/brown with a very modern flat buckle. What's a better choice trad gentlemen?


----------



## August West

BuddyJ said:


> I'm looking for recommendation on inexpensive belts. All I have currently is a cheap reversible black/brown with a very modern flat buckle. What's a better choice trad gentlemen?


At $65, O'Connell's dress belts are an incredible value IMO. https://www.oconnellsclothing.com/Dress-Belts/


----------



## MrFox

Hello!

I have recently updated my wardrobe with a lot of nice clothes. Most of them are in a mid-tone to dark color. Since I'm very careful with my clothes and work in an office environment, the suit jackets and trousers hardly ever look dirty. The cuffs and collar on my shirts get discolored after eight hours in the office, of course, but not the outer layer of clothes.

Now summer is approaching, and I want to invest in brighter colors. Maybe some light wool and linen trousers in light grey color. In your experience, are they as dirt-resistant as heavier darker wool clothes or do they need to go to the drycleaner more frequently?

(My English is not perfect, but hopefully you can extract my message  )


----------



## ran23

Dockers Iconic Khaki worn-in ? I got these with tags, not sure how old they are. Not a dress khaki, more of a heavy winter wear. Can't find them on the dockers site. MSRP $48.00 are they moleskin? thanks


----------



## A-the-P

The recent discussions on Southern and Western trad prompted me to ask for some input regarding dressing trad.

A few years ago I inherited my grandfather's wardrobe, which is all straight trad from the 70's through the 90's: some Brooks Brothers suits, an Orvis Hopsack blazer, lots of LL Bean, etc. Researching how to wear these led to to the Ask Andy forums.

However despite my family history, I wasn't bred to a true blue Trad ethos growing up. I run a small construction crew on the East Coast, for example, and I admit feeling like a poser when I show up at church in penny loafers and a BB OCBD--beard, scarred knuckles and all.

My best friend is a young attorney who pulls off the look effortlessly, but unlike him my occupation doesn't allow me to live the trad lifestyle 7 days a week. I'd welcome input on how to move toward this look, respect my grandfather's legacy, yet not look like I'm trying to be something I'm clearly not.


----------



## TDWat

A-the-P said:


> However despite my family history, I wasn't bred to a true blue Trad ethos growing up. I run a small construction crew on the East Coast, for example, and I admit feeling like a poser when I show up at church in penny loafers and a BB OCBD--beard, scarred knuckles and all.
> 
> My best friend is a young attorney who pulls off the look effortlessly, but unlike him my occupation doesn't allow me to live the trad lifestyle 7 days a week. I'd welcome input on how to move toward this look, respect my grandfather's legacy, yet not look like I'm trying to be something I'm clearly not.


If you look around the forum, I think you'll see a wide variety of backgrounds, careers, locations, and just about everything else. Part of the trad "ethos" (so to speak) around here is that if it looks good and you like it, go for it; the majority of the US population might think that wearing tweed to the grocery store looks ridiculous, but that's half the fun of it. If you want to avoid comments from the people around you, just make the changes in the way you dress gradual.

On a personal note, I have a cousin who is a small town dairy farmer in northern New England. His dad and grandfather were both dairy farmers, and he got a vocational degree from an unassuming state university. That being said, you would struggle to find a picture of him over the last forty years wearing anything but burgundy beefroll loafers, cuffed khakis, and an OCBD on one hand, or a barn coat and muck boots on the other. And if I've ever seen anyone effortlessly pull off the casual trad look, it's definitely him.


----------



## Southpaw Grammer

Would love to see those photos!



TDWat said:


> If you look around the forum, I think you'll see a wide variety of backgrounds, careers, locations, and just about everything else. Part of the trad "ethos" (so to speak) around here is that if it looks good and you like it, go for it; the majority of the US population might think that wearing tweed to the grocery store looks ridiculous, but that's half the fun of it. If you want to avoid comments from the people around you, just make the changes in the way you dress gradual.
> 
> On a personal note, I have a cousin who is a small town dairy farmer in northern New England. His dad and grandfather were both dairy farmers, and he got a vocational degree from an unassuming state university. That being said, you would struggle to find a picture of him over the last forty years wearing anything but burgundy beefroll loafers, cuffed khakis, and an OCBD on one hand, or a barn coat and muck boots on the other. And if I've ever seen anyone effortlessly pull off the casual trad look, it's definitely him.


----------



## Hay Fever

Hello everyone.

Just got this shirt from Ratio. Upper torso/shoulder area looks awkward. Yoke does not rest on shoulders and there is fabric accumulation. What changes do I need to make?


----------



## Reuben

Send them these same pics and comments, then do what they say. They give you a free remake of the first shirt and it's their job after all! At a guess though, I'd say you need to narrow the shoulders a smudge and add some room to the chest.


----------



## Billax

Originally posted by *alkydrinker*
Is there a conventional, "hive mind" wisdom on Charcoal pants?



ThomGault said:


> I don't know, its definitely possible, as I've had a similar sentiment on other issues. However, I think my opinion derives simply from experience. When I began wearing suits on a regular basis for work which required regular appearances in court, my go-to outfit was a charcoal suit with black cap toe shoes. This served me well, and I wore it at least a couple times each week...however, I felt limited to wearing only solid black socks and conservative repp ties. During the intervening years, I changed to a less formal office job and was able to branch out and try different styles. This past fall, I ordered a few trousers in various colors, including charcoal, brown, and medium grey. Even though the charcoal pants were in my comfort zone, I found it easier and more 'fun' to pick my clothes each morning when I chose medium grey trousers instead of charcoal. This also correlated to my shoe collection shifting from 60/40 black/brown to a higher concentration of off-brown shades like merlot, oxblood, and walnut. I acknowledge that this forum was a factor in my newfound color choices, but I also must admit that I feel much more freedom when picking my clothes. Charcoal trousers and suits with black shoes have a place in life, but they're now not my only option.


What a perfect description of the conversion that takes place in a man's sartorial life! Yours is great advice to all of us.


----------



## Orgetorix

Hay Fever said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> Just got this shirt from Ratio. Upper torso/shoulder area looks awkward. Yoke does not rest on shoulders and there is fabric accumulation. What changes do I need to make?


Looks like you have a low left shoulder to me. They need to adjust the pattern to compensate for it.


----------



## Hay Fever

Orgetorix said:


> Looks like you have a low left shoulder to me. They need to adjust the pattern to compensate for it.


Not really, it's the accumulated fabric that makes it look uneven.


----------



## A-the-P

Thrifted this shirt to go with the jacket, but I can't come up with the rest of the outfit. Any recommendations for trousers and tie?

https://goo.gl/photos/HEJqycYX5WLV6Efa7


----------



## TDWat

Southpaw Grammer said:


> Would love to see those photos!


I'll have to see if I can find some.


----------



## WillBarrett

Hi all - got a work event this week that calls for "smart casual" attire - any thoughts?


----------



## ThomGault

WillBarrett said:


> Hi all - got a work event this week that calls for "smart casual" attire - any thoughts?


Dress with a super hero t-shirt like Sheldon from The Big Bang theory--smart AND casual! Or be boring and wear chinos and polo. Where do you work? Depending on setting, a nice dark pair of jeans and a polo/button down.


----------



## katch

Hello Trads - anyone's sack blazer's center vent slightly spread open towards the bottom?


----------



## Ensiferous

Deutschen Hockey Clubs Hannover, possibly.



niegoslav said:


> I am curious if you guys recognize the logo on it?


----------



## FLMike

katch said:


> Hello Trads - anyone's sack blazer's center vent slightly spread open towards the bottom?


Sounds like a possible case of junk-in-the-trunkitis.....


----------



## Oldsport

OMG, that's twice you nailed it this week ...



FLMike said:


> Sounds like a possible case of junk-in-the-trunkitis.....


----------



## katch

FLMike said:


> Sounds like a possible case of junk-in-the-trunkitis.....


That's not it. Got my answer. Jacket needs to be shorted from the collar.


----------



## FLMike

Oldsport said:


> OMG, that's twice you nailed it this week ...


Ha...I only wish I could say that! (Wife has other ideas.) :devil:


----------



## RhinoVA

Hi all, 
Desperately searching for a pair of AE Bourbon Ascher's in 12d... I don't see much documentation about them being discontinued, but they seem to have been. Is my best bet just to troll ebay for a pair? I see a pair in walnut, I suppose I could darken them a bit?


----------



## MDP

What's the standard Trad shoe to wear with wool trousers or a more casual suit? Longwing?


----------



## WillBarrett

I've got an undarted, 3 button Corbin suit I've been meaning to get altered. I noticed this week that the top button is rather exposed - there's not much of a roll going on there. Is this common? Should I have someone press it down? Or just go with the Fred Astaire look?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FLMike

MDP said:


> What's the standard Trad shoe to wear with wool trousers or a more casual suit? Longwing?


Alden/BB tassel loafers.


----------



## MDP

FLMike said:


> Alden/BB tassel loafers.


So lets say...just hypothetically...someone was not a fan of tassels...

Anything else fit this role or would I be going out of the trad canon at this point?

Remember, this is just hypothetical...


----------



## TDWat

MDP said:


> So lets say...just hypothetically...someone was not a fan of tassels...
> 
> Anything else fit this role or would I be going out of the trad canon at this point?
> 
> Remember, this is just hypothetical...


You'll see a lot of penny loafers, longwings, or PTBs. Any derby-style shoe will be more casual.


----------



## Charles Dana

TDWat said:


> You'll see a lot of penny loafers, longwings, or PTBs. Any derby-style shoe will be more casual.


Right. To visualize shoes that will work perfectly, study the self-photos that "Ensiferous" posts. He always includes clear pictures of his shoes for the day.


----------



## DLW

My nephew was home recently for a surprise party. He wears a pair of Warby Parker's and allowed me to try them on. I liked the look, am I trying to hard to convince myself with my round face. I've wanted a P3 style for some time now and feel these somehow fit the bill. Family members liked the look, and my nephew said the larger frames look good on me. I had my nephew take a picture of me wearing the Warby's, a little close; it gives me an idea of the look. Yea or nay. 1[SUP]St[/SUP] picture my nephew wearing the Warby's.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Tweed McVey:
The Warby Parkers seem to be a good design for your face...looking good! :thumbs-up:


----------



## CSG

I think they're better than your current frame.


----------



## LeeLo

Tweed McVay - The Warby Parkers look great on you. I think you should get a pair for yourself.


----------



## Yuca

They look too big to me, whereas the 1st pair look fine. Good collar roll too. (On the shirt not the glasses.)


----------



## wicker

I'm in the market for a new batch of OCBDs. I bought BB in bulk 5+ years ago, and most are out of commission, except one solid blue, one blue striped, and one white strictly for under-sweater, non-tie, wearing. Expanding beyond BB OCBD is something I'd like to do, and Mercer looks good to me in terms of quality and originality--plus I can take advantage of their first-time buyer discount. So what's the conventional wisdom on makeup for OCBD wardrobe? Last time I bought I operated under advice I read online, somewhere, which was to have at the minimum/starting 3 solid blue, 1 white, 1 or 2 striped. 

Long story short--if you were to buy 4 to 5 OCBDs what colors would you get?


----------



## Hay Fever

wicker said:


> Long story short--if you were to buy 4 to 5 OCBDs what colors would you get?


I'd start with:

White
Blue
Pink
Yellow
Blue uni stripe


----------



## eagle2250

If buying my first five OCBD's, I would go with three whites and two pale blues, but it would take only minimum persuasion to get me to change that to two whites, two pale blues and one blue/white university stripe.


----------



## Ensiferous

^ My order would be 3 blue, 1 blue stripe, 1 white.


----------



## Billax

wicker said:


> Long story short--if you were to buy 4 to 5 OCBDs what colors would you get?


Wicker, answering the following questions will help you select your 5 OCBDs:

1) How many days a week do you wear a suit?
2) How many days a week do you wear a sport coat?
2a) How many days a week do you wear a Navy Blazer?
3) Mostly derivative, but how many days a week do you wear a tie?
4) How many days a week do you run into co-workers, managers, customers, prospects who wear ties?

• If you find yourself scoring a 3, 4, or 5 for question #1 you really need three or 4 white OCBDs and 1 or 2 solid blues.
• If your answers to questions 2 and 2a give you scores of 4 or 5, you can reduce the white OCBDs to 2, add a couple of of blues, and one University Stripe.
• If you're answering 1 or 2 instances a week for all four/five questions, you could easily be comfortable with 3 University Stripes, one white and one Blue.

I take it you're a relatively young guy... or at least a relatively young guy compared to me... so question 4 is really the key question. What are your industry peers wearing? Fit in with them.

That likely means that, if you're working as an attorney at a White Shoe Law Firm or have a role as a client-facing guy with a Management Consulting firm, you'll likely be a four-day-a-week suit guy. If you're working at a tech firm in Silicon Valley bringing the _IoT_ (Internet of Things) into being, well it's five days a week of sartorial cachophony!

Best of luck!


----------



## Orgetorix

Two blue, one blue stripe, one red stripe, one white.


----------



## Himself

eagle2250 said:


> If buying my first five OCBD's, I would go with three whites and two pale blues, but it would take only minimum persuasion to get me to change that to two whites, two pale blues and one blue/white university stripe.


That's the advice that I would give too. But I find myself wearing the blue uni stripes way more than the others, the plain blue almost never, and a red uni stripe as well as plain pink all the time.

Bottom line: what would you _actually wear_ most often?


----------



## FLMike

I would do 2 blue, 1 blue uni stripe, 1 pink, 1 white


----------



## wicker

Thanks for all the tips! I think I'll go with 2 blue, 1 white, and 2 stripe (I really like the gray, and also a red or blue stripe). Fwiw my office (finance/insurance) is now casual, in fact they just began permitting jeans any day or the week. I typically wear wool slacks with button downs, no SC or blazer--to my chagrin. I always wear my ocbds on the weekend though. Plus, now I'll wear em to work with the wools and some khakis.

cheers!


----------



## niv

I've been looking at peak lapel tuxedos and I noticed that the lapel typically comes in either narrow or wide. Does anyone have any thoughts on which is most traditional? It seems that wider lapels were big in the 30s and narrow lapels in the 60s but what is considered the most conservative look?


----------



## Orgetorix

niv said:


> I've been looking at peak lapel tuxedos and I noticed that the lapel typically comes in either narrow or wide. Does anyone have any thoughts on which is most traditional? It seems that wider lapels were big in the 30s and narrow lapels in the 60s but what is considered the most conservative look?


As with other kinds of lapels, they should be proportional to your body. That said, of all the lapel types, a peak lapel looks the silliest when it's narrow, so err on the side of broader lapels if you have to make a choice.


----------



## FLMike

niv said:


> I've been looking at peak lapel tuxedos and I noticed that the lapel typically comes in either narrow or wide. Does anyone have any thoughts on which is most traditional? It seems that wider lapels were big in the 30s and narrow lapels in the 60s but what is considered the most conservative look?


The peak lapels on my BB tuxedo seem to be neither narrow nor wide.


----------



## Natty Beau

Question:

I've been looking at Brooks OCBD on ebay. How do I know if I'm looking at a 132Q/133Q/must-iron shirt?

Last year I bought one labeled "The Original Polo" and it turned out to be non-iron and paper thin. Now I think I see some, but how can I be sure what I'm buying?


----------



## ThomGault

Natty Beau said:


> Question:
> 
> I've been looking at Brooks OCBD on ebay. How do I know if I'm looking at a 132Q/133Q/must-iron shirt?


Iirc, BB items have model numbers printed on the garment care tags. Ask for a pic of it and you should be able to determine which it is.


----------



## Resipsa

This is my first post. Please excuse my ignorance. I attempted a search before posting. I'm looking for a heavyweight dress shirt in a texture pattern for around $100. Thank you in advance.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Visit your local Brooks Brother's store, Resipsa.. They should be able to nicely accommodate you. Welcome to AAAC! :thumbs-up:


----------



## Ensiferous

^And I might add that you could check out "Royal Oxford" fabric to see if it appeals to you.


----------



## katch

Probably covered elsewhere, but is there a blazer button rule when it comes to brass buttons? i.e. 3/2 roll = 2 button cuff? or 3 button cuff?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Mine (BB and O'Connell's purchases) all have three buttons on the cuffs. However, I never knew this was a rule of such designs.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Mine (BB and O'Connell's purchases) all have three buttons on the cuffs. However, I never knew this was a rule of such designs.


No rule, but wasn't / isn't there something about Brook Brothers and two buttons on the sleeves of their sack sport coats - or am I confusing disparate things (something I'm well capable of doing)?


----------



## katch

Fading Fast said:


> No rule, but wasn't / isn't there something about Brook Brothers and two buttons on the sleeves of their sack sport coats - or am I confusing disparate things (something I'm well capable of doing)?


my new madison 3 button sacknhas 4 buttons. My triple patch vintage sack has 3. I know 3 is mixed in there at times, so i wanted to know the logic (if any) to this puzzle


----------



## Fading Fast

katch said:


> my new madison 3 button sacknhas 4 buttons. My triple patch vintage sack has 3. I know 3 is mixed in there at times, so i wanted to know the logic (if any) to this puzzle


My first comment was motived by nothing more than that I own a late '80s BB sack sport coat that has 2 buttons on the sleeve and I know I've read on more than one occasion that this was something that BB did with some of its models going back to Ivy's heyday. But I don't remember why or if it was an important style "feature" of the time. That's it - that's all that prompted my query.


----------



## top secret

I have a thick bow tie that I find extremely difficult to tie. It appears to be lined. Has anyone else had this problem? Would it be possible for a competent "tie tailor" (?) to remove the lining?


The tie was a gift with a unique design, so I'd prefer to salvage it for occasional use if possible.

Thanks!


----------



## fred johnson

My personal preference is 2 buttons on the cuff of a 3/2 sack. I wonder if anyone else has noticed that on a true 3/2 roll jacket the top buttonhole is finished on the opposite side of the other two button holes? (exposed to view finished, not exposed to view rough)


----------



## oxford cloth button down

fred johnson said:


> I wonder if anyone else has noticed that on a true 3/2 roll jacket the top buttonhole is finished on the opposite side of the other two button holes? (exposed to view finished, not exposed to view rough)


This is the best way to ID a 3/2 jacket.


----------



## Fading Fast

fred johnson said:


> My personal preference is 2 buttons on the cuff of a 3/2 sack. I wonder if anyone else has noticed that on a true 3/2 roll jacket the top buttonhole is finished on the opposite side of the other two button holes? (exposed to view finished, not exposed to view rough)


My "tradiest" sport coat - one I purchased at BB in the '80s - is a 3/2 sack with 2 buttons on the cuff.


----------



## SuperTrad

How wide of a leg/thigh opening is best when it comes to shorts... I just purchased two 5' inseam shorts from JCF. They hit above the knee but I'm thinking the thigh opening is a bit wide


----------



## katch

Just thrifted a wool blend (assume poly) blazer. I sort of dig the wool blen texture. Anyone feel the same?


----------



## FLMike

SuperTrad said:


> How wide of a leg/thigh opening is best when it comes to shorts... I just purchased two 5' inseam shorts from JCF. They hit above the knee but I'm thinking the thigh opening is a bit wide


What is JCF?


----------



## SuperTrad

FLMike said:


> What is JCF?


oops sorry, J. Crew Factory


----------



## ArtVandalay

Does anyone have any LL Bean coupon codes/gift cards they aren't using? I can repay you in Starbucks cards :devil:


----------



## SuperTrad

How do I prevent shrinking on my clothes and is there a way to salvage clothes that have shrunk?


----------



## Fading Fast

Never wash in hot or put in a dryer. Otherwise, assume shrinkage will happen and account for that when buying. 

A few things, like jeans, natural shrink when dried and then "ease out" again when wearing, but most things, once shrunk, stay that way.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since there have been several polo shirt threads going, it prompted a query in me.

I've always thought that the pique material is the original polo shirt material as it breathes and the original polo was an athletic shirt - does anyone know if this is accurate? 

Are there any thoughts in the trad world about one material - pique, interwoven, something else - as being most representative? (I vote pique.)


----------



## philipneri

I am new here, and I have a lot of questions lined up for you all.

My first is on surcingle belts. How are you supposed to style them? Do you match it to your shirt or your pants or your socks or what? Also, do Trad people only wear them in the summer or do you all wear them year-round?


----------



## universitystripe

philipneri said:


> I am new here, and I have a lot of questions lined up for you all.
> 
> My first is on surcingle belts. How are you supposed to style them? Do you match it to your shirt or your pants or your socks or what? Also, do Trad people only wear them in the summer or do you all wear them year-round?


Just use your eye when picking out what surcingle belt will look best with what you are wearing. I will sometimes try two or three combinations before settling on one. It's good to have options here.

I have seen it written that some will match their fabric watch band to their surcingle belt, but I personally avoid this. If I'm wearing a grosgrain watch strap, I'll usually stick with a leather belt.

I wear them year round. I have one that's repp stripe silk which I reserve for Autumn and Winter.


----------



## philipneri

universitystripe said:


> Just use your eye when picking out what surcingle belt will look best with what you are wearing. I will sometimes try two or three combinations before settling on one. It's good to have options here.


Thanks for the reply. It was very helpful. What color for surcingle belts should I get? I would wear them with OCBDs (white, blue, pink, blue university stripe, and gray university strip) and chinos (khaki, navy, gray, and olive).


----------



## universitystripe

philipneri said:


> Thanks for the reply. It was very helpful. What color for surcingle belts should I get? I would wear them with OCBDs (white, blue, pink, blue university stripe, and gray university strip) and chinos (khaki, navy, gray, and olive).


The most classic would likely be the navy with red horizontal stripe and the navy with yellow horizontal stripe. Between the two of them, you should always be able to find something that works well.

Solids are also a safe choice you may want to invest in. I wouldn't invest in needlepoint until you have built up your options.

Although, I don't recall seeing surcingle belts paired with navy, gray, or olive chinos. Khaki and Nantucket Red work well.


----------



## philipneri

universitystripe said:


> The most classic would likely be the navy with red horizontal stripe and the navy with yellow horizontal stripe. Between the two of them, you should always be able to find something that works well.
> 
> Solids are also a safe choice you may want to invest in. I wouldn't invest in needlepoint until you have built up your options.
> 
> Although, I don't recall seeing surcingle belts paired with navy, gray, or olive chinos. Khaki and Nantucket Red work well.


Got it. Thank you so much. This brings up an interesting point. Are navy, gray, and olive chinos not Trad?


----------



## Stitch

philipneri said:


> Got it. Thank you so much. This brings up an interesting point. Are navy, gray, and olive chinos not Trad?


I wouldn't worry so much about if they're Trad as much as when would be the ideal time to wear those colours.

I personally adore olive, and find it goes fantastically with a brown herringbone tween jacket. Brown and olive is a very classic colour combination, and olive chinos with several different colours of crew neck shetland sweaters can also look great in the fall/winter. Definitely trad and worth the purchase IMO.

Navy and grey are trickier. Lets start with grey first. Grey flannel wool trousers are classically trad and go wonderfully
with a myriad of combinations, not the least of which is the classic navy blazer with grey flannels. But grey chinos are a little stranger. I wear chinos only when I can't wear flannels, e.g. when the temperature is too high for flannels (spring/summer). Usually at those temps tan, khaki and even white will look better with a rolled up sleeve OCBD or polo (or linen for that matter). You can do light grey chinos, but I've rarely found grey chinos to be the 'ideal' trousers for any outfit. Even so, some do wear them quite well so if you already own them, but all means keep wearing them.

Navy on the other hand is something many, myself included, don't recommend. Can you wear them successfully? Sure, I've seen it done here somewhat often. The problem is that they're very limited in use compared to other chino colours. For instance you can't wear them with a navy blazer or it will look like you're trying to make a faux-suit. They don't go well with many sport coats other than a black/white (gray) herringbone, and if worn without a sportcoat/blazer they occupy a strange formality space (for instance, if very casual then why not wear blue jeans or shorts? If even slightly more formal then why not wear khaki and any number of OCBDs and sportcoats without a tie?

Can you wear navy chinos? Sure. They work with grey herringbone tweed and with a few colours of shetland sweaters (although if the weather is cold enough for a sweater, I've switch to corduroys or moleskins). IMHO they just aren't as useful or versatile as khaki (dark or light), grey flannels and brown/olive/other colour moleskins/corduroys in the average trad wardrobe.

This is all, of course, just my opinion and others will likely disagree.


----------



## TimF

*Non-Oxford Button downs in the "Golden Era"*

My question is about the prevalence of button down collar shirts that are NOT made of oxford cloth. Nowadays it seems when we're discussing the button down collar, collar roll etc. oxford cloth inevitably comes up. But I have a feeling that in the height of Ivy clothing (50s-early 60s), oxford cloth was not necessarily the #1 fabric that button down collar shirts were made of. I'm reading about other fabrics such as broadcloth, end on end, maybe even twill?

So for people with either first or second hand knowledge of this, what was the rough breakdown of button down collar shirts sold in the 50-60s by fabric? Information about the gradual dominance of the OCBD over broadcloth and others would also be helpful. BB, for example, used to offer all fabrics BDs made in the USA; now, only their OCBD is still made in the traditional way in the USA. Their pinpoints, end on ends etc. are all made in Malaysia with fused collars and cuffs.


----------



## philipneri

Stitch said:


> I wouldn't worry so much about if they're Trad as much as when would be the ideal time to wear those colours.
> 
> I personally adore olive, and find it goes fantastically with a brown herringbone tween jacket. Brown and olive is a very classic colour combination, and olive chinos with several different colours of crew neck shetland sweaters can also look great in the fall/winter. Definitely trad and worth the purchase IMO.
> 
> Navy and grey are trickier. Lets start with grey first. Grey flannel wool trousers are classically trad and go wonderfully
> with a myriad of combinations, not the least of which is the classic navy blazer with grey flannels. But grey chinos are a little stranger. I wear chinos only when I can't wear flannels, e.g. when the temperature is too high for flannels (spring/summer). Usually at those temps tan, khaki and even white will look better with a rolled up sleeve OCBD or polo (or linen for that matter). You can do light grey chinos, but I've rarely found grey chinos to be the 'ideal' trousers for any outfit. Even so, some do wear them quite well so if you already own them, but all means keep wearing them.
> 
> Navy on the other hand is something many, myself included, don't recommend. Can you wear them successfully? Sure, I've seen it done here somewhat often. The problem is that they're very limited in use compared to other chino colours. For instance you can't wear them with a navy blazer or it will look like you're trying to make a faux-suit. They don't go well with many sport coats other than a black/white (gray) herringbone, and if worn without a sportcoat/blazer they occupy a strange formality space (for instance, if very casual then why not wear blue jeans or shorts? If even slightly more formal then why not wear khaki and any number of OCBDs and sportcoats without a tie?
> 
> Can you wear navy chinos? Sure. They work with grey herringbone tweed and with a few colours of shetland sweaters (although if the weather is cold enough for a sweater, I've switch to corduroys or moleskins). IMHO they just aren't as useful or versatile as khaki (dark or light), grey flannels and brown/olive/other colour moleskins/corduroys in the average trad wardrobe.
> 
> This is all, of course, just my opinion and others will likely disagree.


Thank you. Very helpful and insightful comments. You have quadrupled my interest in flannel trousers. And you have confirmed the problem of navy which I have begun to discover through first hand experience.


----------



## Stitch

philipneri said:


> Thank you. Very helpful and insightful comments. You have quadrupled my interest in flannel trousers. And you have confirmed the problem of navy which I have begun to discover through first hand experience.


Glad to be of service!

There are a couple of things to keep in mind with flannel trousers. First off, the heavier weight ones are WARM. Most, myself included, consider this a feature. However I see you live in Texas, so you might prefer a lighter weight pair rather than the somewhat more common heavier weights. The second thing to keep in mind is the shade of grey (I hear there can be as many as 50!... sorry). I find a light or medium grey to be more useful than a darker shade for matching with blazers, sportcoats, or just ocbds, however some here may prefer a the latter.

For instance I own both of the following and find the lighter grey to be more useful than the Cambridge grey:
https://www.oconnellsclothing.com/O-Connell-s-plain-front-Lambswool-Flannel-Trousers-Light-Grey.html
https://www.oconnellsclothing.com/O...ambswool-Flannel-Trousers-Cambridge-Grey.html

I also own a pair of brown flannel pants which I honestly don't recommend. Some like them, but if I'm wearing brown pants its generally a more casual situation and I'd prefer brown corduroys instead. I've only worn the brown flannels twice in the past year and really should get around to just selling them off.


----------



## Tilton

Current Press suits gut-check: are the S.Cohen (Presstige) suits a full size larger than the Soutwick (Pressidential) suits, when tagged the same? Anyone else experience this?


----------



## jtbing

Advice for a young Florida guy looking to buy a new pair of dress trousers? My first impulse is to get some grey wool, but I was wondering if some BB dress chinos (not khaki color) or cotton grenadine would be dressy enough. I don't own a sportcoat, yet, so they'd be worn alone with OCBDs or with a tie under a sweater.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Charles Dana

jtbing said:


> Advice for a young Florida guy looking to buy a new pair of dress trousers? My first impulse is to get some grey wool, but I was wondering if some BB dress chinos (not khaki color) or cotton gabardine would be dressy enough.


(In the paragraph quoted above, I changed "grenadine" to "gabardine" because that's what you meant.)

So...will BB "dress" chinos "be dressy enough"? It depends. How often will you want to--or need to--wear "dressy" clothes? And where would you wear them?

See Stitch's excellent post earlier in this thread regarding the limits of chinos that are not khaki-colored. Olive chinos are great to have if you already have the khaki base covered, but blue and grey chinos are unnecessary, and certainly so is black

I think that medium-grey wool gabardine trousers are one of the most versatile things a gentleman could have in his closet. But again, it depends on how often and in what circumstances you intend to get dressy.


----------



## FLMike

Charles Dana said:


> I think that medium-grey wool gabardine trousers are one of the most versatile things a gentleman could have in his closet. But again, it depends on how often and in what circumstances you intend to get dressy.


I've been wearing tan-colored wool gabardines for many years, but when it comes to grey trousers I much prefer tropical wool. I do agree that they are incredibly useful and versatile. I also agree that it's impossible to answer the question of whether certain pants are "dressy enough" without knowing where and how they will be worn....in other words, dressy enough for what?


----------



## jtbing

Sincere thanks for the responses. 

Yes, I meant gabardine. I'm inept. Thank you for seeing past my typing struggles. Most of my dressing up will be for concerts, church, and occasional other school or family events. I have a navy suit for more semi-formal (in the modern sense, not traditional) needs.

So, whatever I get needs to be versatile and durable enough to suffer frequent use for everything in between normal chinos and a conservative suit. My budget as a young, married university student is sadly limited.

Also, it's hot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Charles Dana

jtbing said:


> Most of my dressing up will be for concerts, church, and occasional other school or family events. I have a navy suit for more semi-formal (in the modern sense, not traditional) needs.
> 
> So, whatever I get needs to be versatile and durable enough to suffer frequent use for everything in between normal chinos and a conservative suit. My budget as a young, married university student is sadly limited.
> 
> Also, it's hot.


Based on your feedback, I'll say get a pair of inexpensive gray wool trousers from Lands' End or from LL Bean. (Tropic-weight wool trousers, as mentioned by FLMike, would be ideal, but probably difficult to find--a least ones that would fit your tight budget.)


----------



## alkydrinker

I have a question for people who are plugged in to JPress merchandise....

Does anyone know if a shirt with the label shown below is "JPress Blue" / slim fit, or if it is the traditonal fuller fit?

The label is, in fact, blue in color. However, this item does not come up under the "JPress Blue" section of the website and it doesn't say "slim fit" in the description.

To further confuse, items that are officially categorized as "JPress Blue" have a different label that is blue in color (possibly implying the shirt I'm interested IS NOT part of the slim fit collection), however there are some other madras shirts like this one I'm interested in but they have the traditional red label (possibly implying the shirt I'm interested in IS slim fit).

Item link: https://www.jpressonline.com/madras-shirt-navy-red-green-white/


----------



## xcubbies

I'm pretty sure that that's their usual label for traditional merchandise, if my ancient wardrobe is any indication.


----------



## Roboyle

First time posting here. I recently picked up this BB sweater while thrifting. I couldn't find much online, does anyone have any info on it/recognize it? Interestingly, even though it's tagged as an XL, it fits me really well and I'm a medium in most things. Thanks!



http://imgur.com/b8DGb


----------



## Fading Fast

I know that for vests - even cardigan sweater vests - many traditionally have not buttoned the bottom button, but what are people thoughts on buttoning the bottom button on a cardigan full-sleeve sweater?


----------



## wilhelm00

Fading Fast said:


> I know that for vests - even cardigan sweater vests - many traditionally have not buttoned the bottom button, but what are people thoughts on buttoning the bottom button on a cardigan full-sleeve sweater?


I'm not sure there is really a rule _per se_ for full cardigans. I'm only 5'6, so I pretty much have to leave it unbuttoned (sometimes the next one as well). If I button it, I get a weird pooched out roll of fabric when I sit down. A normal sweater I can roll the band under if I have to. A cardigan has all the extra fabric from the placket. I think it's a comfort thing.


----------



## sbdivemaster

Roboyle said:


> First time posting here. I recently picked up this BB sweater while thrifting. I couldn't find much online, does anyone have any info on it/recognize it? Interestingly, even though it's tagged as an XL, it fits me really well and I'm a medium in most things. Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/b8DGb


Looks like one of the standard Brooks cable knit v-neck tennis sweaters.

The red tag is for Brooks youth collection. This would explain why it is tagged XL, but fits an adult medium.

If it's clean and there aren't any holes or snags, that's a nice find.


----------



## BrewTuna

Who is making the best burgundy loafer under $200? Weejuns seem to be the go to, but quality has come into question. They also aren't that cheap unless you find a good sale (which I have seen in a bit). The outlet quality stuff from Bass is trash.


----------



## eagle2250

BrewTuna: If you want an uber-comfortable, well made and decidedly handsome penny loafer, for just a few dollars more than the $200 limit with which you have saddled yourself you should consider San Antonio Shoes (SAS) 40th Anniversary penny loafers. My penny loafer options include Alden LHS's, Allen Edmonds, Rancourt, etc., and the SAS loafers are competitive with any one of those options.


----------



## Opposite Saybrook

BrewTuna said:


> Who is making the best burgundy loafer under $200? Weejuns seem to be the go to, but quality has come into question. They also aren't that cheap unless you find a good sale (which I have seen in a bit). The outlet quality stuff from Bass is trash.


I am still wearing two pair bought decades ago, so I can't speak to current quality, but you might give Johnston & Murphy pennies a look.


----------



## Fading Fast

I've often seen the half-zip sweater - by companies selling it - referred to as a "classic" or "traditional" item with the intimation being that it has a long pedigree in classic American clothing or (and I'm doing this from memory - can't point to where I read it) even having an Ivy / Trad heritage.

I have no doubt that someone can produce a picture of a half-zip sweater in every decade of the 20th Century (and probably on some kid at Harvard or Yale, etc.) and definitely on some prominent people (as I have seen them myself in older photos), but they don't seem to me to have been a part of the Ivy sweater canon or even a big part of American Trad. 

In the late '70s / '80s, when I started buying clothes at Brooks, Press and traditional men's clothing stores, the half-zip sweater did not hold the same place as crewnecks, V-necks, cardigans or turtlenecks. They might have been in the stores, but I don't remember seeing them, and they were definitely not in the same league / were not stocked anywhere near the way these other sweaters were.

It was more from the '90s on that I remember them being regularly stocked. So, with that too-long introduction, what are others' thoughts, opinions, memories about the half-zip sweater? Am I wrong (I quite frequently am) or is your memory similar to mine?


----------



## Charles Dana

^ Fading Fast:

I agree with you 100%. V-necks and crewnecks have traditionally and consistently prevailed, with cardigans also being seriously in style from time to time, particularly in the 1950s and early-to-middle 1960s. I don't recall seeing anyone wearing half-zip sweaters in the 1960s or 1970s (except perhaps in connection with track suits. But for everyday casual clothing--no).


----------



## TallLefty21

I'm looking to purchase my first wool/cotton blend Viyella shirt. On their official site their shirts are marked at 75 Euro. All other retailers have them at $125-$145. Are the shirts from their direct site inferior? There must be a reason for the price difference.


----------



## FiscalDean

TallLefty21 said:


> I'm looking to purchase my first wool/cotton blend Viyella shirt. On their official site their shirts are marked at 75 Euro. All other retailers have them at $125-$145. Are the shirts from their direct site inferior? There must be a reason for the price difference.


The current exchange rate is 1.17042 USD to 1 Euro, making 75 Euro worth 87.7815 US Dollars. Does the 75 Euro price include shipping and all applicable taxes? Is this a wholesale price compared to a US retail price?

Simple economics would suggest that if you're dealing with the manufacturer, their selling price would be less than the selling price of a retailer. The manufacturer will build in their profit margin and then the retailer will add their profit margin on top of the additional cost incurred to purchase the product from the maker.

If you're buying direct from the maker, they can in theory sell for less than their retailers, however, not all manufacturers will sell for less than their retailers. Doing so could discourage retailers from handling their product.


----------



## jimw

I imagine its only those with wide feet who would appreciate this question: when shopping for penny loafers (or other leather shoes), why is it that usually only the CG models in shiny black or cordovan are available in extended widths? I'd love to have some casual pennies in oiled brown or tan, but these are seldom available in wider sizes.


----------



## MDP

jimw said:


> I imagine its only those with wide feet who would appreciate this question: when shopping for penny loafers (or other leather shoes), why is it that usually only the CG models in shiny black or cordovan are available in extended widths? I'd love to have some casual pennies in oiled brown or tan, but these are seldom available in wider sizes.


Although I can't answer your specific question, I did notice that AE Cavanaughs are included in their Discover America sale and are available in brown and tan up to EEE.

https://www.allenedmonds.com/shoes/mens-shoes/loafers-slip-ons/cavanaugh-penny-loafer/SF50021.html


----------



## Fading Fast

Hey, let's fire up the discussion by arguing over some minutia about Ivy versus Trad - ugh, I agree that would be silly.

But I have been thinking about this lately (I have a small brain and tiny nonsensical things can tie it up, so I thought I'd ask this forum for clarity to allow my two brain cells time to think about other things):

*Are three-piece suits Ivy or just Trad?*
I know I've seen pictures of some very Ivy dressers wearing three-piece sack suits in the era, but it almost feels like three-piece suits were a small part of Ivy / not really part of its core. Thoughts?


----------



## LukeRoz

Any thoughts on this jacket I want to purchase from eBay? Looking for my first tweed....


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Looks like a solid vintage tweed. It's un-darted, 2/3, center (not hook, but still) vent, leather buttons, real Harris Tweed and appears to be in good shape. I also like that it is only partially lined as Tweed is heavy enough without a full lining. In a perfect world, for your first tweed, a grey herringbone would be my choice, but for the price, it looks like a very good purchase.


----------



## Cawood

jimw said:


> I imagine its only those with wide feet who would appreciate this question: when shopping for penny loafers (or other leather shoes), why is it that usually only the CG models in shiny black or cordovan are available in extended widths? I'd love to have some casual pennies in oiled brown or tan, but these are seldom available in wider sizes.


Jimw, I just purchased the perfect shoes you are looking for, Alden unlined leisure handsewn in brown chromexcel, 8 1/2 E. I normally wear 9 E. So typically go down a half size in these. These are the best. You can check them out online. Good Luck!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Cawood

Cawood said:


> Jimw, I just purchased the perfect shoes you are looking for, Alden unlined leisure handsewn in brown chromexcel, 8 1/2 E. I normally wear 9 E. So typically go down a half size in these. These are the best. You can check them out online. Good Luck!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The Alden LHS loafer in brown chromexcel. The leather is treated at Horween in Chicago using the same process that is utilized in treating their cordovan shell. I love cordovan shell, but these are going to be right there as a favorite.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I absolutely love my Alden LHS's, but would caution a prospective buyer to be careful if they have been gifted with high insteps. Such foot shapes may find it challenging to get a good/ all day comfortable fit with Aldens LHS loafer design.


----------



## Pentheos

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> I absolutely love my Alden LHS's, but would caution a prospective buyer to be careful if they have been gifted with high insteps. Such foot shapes may find it challenging to get a good/ all day comfortable fit with Aldens LHS loafer design.


This is very good advice. Also, the general wisdom to go down a half size for the LHS is, I think, bad advice - ESPECIALLY if you have a high instep and want to get into the LHS game. The longer the shoe, the farther down your foot the (possibly low) vamp is.

I believe, but have no proof for this, that the lasts for the LHS and possibly other Alden shoes are quite old, in the sense that the normal shape of the American foot is different now than it was 30 years ago. Namely, people are heavier, with larger, wider feet. This is why so many complain about the LHS fit. If you acquire a pair of LHS, especially in shell cordovan, and they don't fit well - try some weight loss. I almost guarantee you that the shoe will fit better. Crede experto.


----------



## LukeRoz

Here is the tweed I mentioned in earlier question. I think it's a little small but wondering if it's wearable? Thoughts?

https://postimg.org/image/23qvgq4s4b/

https://postimg.org/image/70zcakj72j/


----------



## alwaystatar

If a sport coat or jacket fits everywhere except that the double vents are not closing the back view completely is it considered bad fit?
To explain: when standing while looking in the mirror sideways you can see the colour of the trousers in a small triangle shape. I have noticed that some jackets overlap better and there is no fabric showing, is it because of the fit or construction? The vents don't flare out back though like a duck tail.


----------



## alwaystatar

Needed a dark brown tie and bought 2 different models from Hackett (Not retail price, just £20 each) one of them is this one https://www.hackett.com/gb/cervo-leather-belt-HM412015898-1
35mm, made in Italy, the buckle is a bit big. Hard to tell if bonded leather or made from scrap. label says "cow leather".
And another one smooth brown 30mm made in china that felt cheap but had a nice rounded and smaller buckle.

Is the one in the link worth the money and would it be appropriate for formal and semi-formal occasions or should I look elsewhere? Have an event to attend this Friday but I always can wear black shoes.


----------



## LukeRoz

LukeRoz said:


> Here is the tweed I mentioned in earlier question. I think it's a little small but wondering if it's wearable? Thoughts?
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/23qvgq4s4b/
> 
> https://postimg.org/image/70zcakj72j/


Shameless bump, but i need to figure out if im keeping or attempting to return....thanks!


----------



## punit12

Why haven't LL Bean started selling their Shetland sweaters this fall?


----------



## TDWat

LukeRoz said:


> Shameless bump, but i need to figure out if im keeping or attempting to return....thanks!


It might be slightly too small, but I don't think it's particularly noticeable. As long as you can move comfortably in it I'd vote keep.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Agreed!
The fit is close enough to work for you...keep the jacket.


----------



## Charles Dana

eagle2250 said:


> ^^Agreed!
> The fit is close enough to work for you...keep the jacket.


LukeRoz, I agree the jacket is a keeper.

I notice that the lapels do bend outward ever so slightly, but that is simply because

(a) in light of your concerns, I inspected your photos, actively looking for things that were wrong, and

(b) in the photos, you are standing at attention.

The jacket actually fits you pretty well when you consider that in the real world, you'll be moving around rather than standing perfectly still with plumb-line posture (unless you have a neurosis you haven't told me about). Even in those moments when you found yourself standing still, nobody would think that the chest of your tweed sport coat looked even the least bit tight. Instead, they'd be thinking, "That's a nice suit that man is wearing."


----------



## Dannyboy005

What is the opinion on cashmere sweaters in the trad sphere. I know there seems to be a strong preference for shetland and lambswool which are great. Are cashmere sweaters seen as a unnecessary vanity item or are they considered classic wardrobe staples. I'm considering treating myself to a Scottish made crew neck in 3 ply cashmere from BB in either navy or light grey.


----------



## Charles Dana

Dannyboy005 said:


> I'm considering treating myself to a Scottish made crew neck in 3 ply cashmere from BB in either navy or light grey.


If you want it, get it. A cashmere sweater doesn't strike me as particularly "Trad" (as that term of art is used in the context of this forum), but the degree of Trad-ness that such sweaters possess should not influence your decision as to whether or not to purchase one.


----------



## Fading Fast

Dannyboy005 said:


> What is the opinion on cashmere sweaters in the trad sphere. I know there seems to be a strong preference for shetland and lambswool which are great. Are cashmere sweaters seen as a unnecessary vanity item or are they considered classic wardrobe staples. I'm considering treating myself to a Scottish made crew neck in 3 ply cashmere from BB in either navy or light grey.


I agree with Charles Dana - if you want it, buy it and enjoy it.

That said, I am curious about the question of cashmere in the Ivy space - where cashmere sweaters part of the men's Ivy '50s - late-'60s heyday thing?

Trad seems much broader and, IMHO, cashmere sweaters - while much less common than today as cashmere was much more expensive relative to today - were in the high-end trad mix going back to, at least, the '30s. Just from what I've read, it seems they were more prevalent in women's than men's sweaters, but definitely available to both genders.


----------



## ran23

I love my cashmere pullover vests. Wish my cardigans were.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> That said, I am curious about the question of cashmere in the Ivy space - where cashmere sweaters part of the men's Ivy '50s - late-'60s heyday thing?
> 
> Trad seems much broader and, IMHO, cashmere sweaters - while much less common than today as cashmere was much more expensive relative to today - were in the high-end trad mix going back to, at least, the '30s. Just from what I've read, it seems they were more prevalent in women's than men's sweaters, but definitely available to both genders.


I don't know how "Trad" cashmere sweaters are. However, they definitely had a place in the Ivy League, judging from my admittedly cursory review of the cashmere-related advertisements in The Daily Princetonian and The Yale Daily News from the 1930s through the 1960s.

(Anybody with the time and the interest can easily conduct his own, more extensive, review--all of the back issues of the newspapers are online. Go to the archives for a given newspaper, then go to the advanced search field and type "cashmere." Then enter the span of years you're interested in. And bingo! Old cashmere advertisements practically fall into your lap. Want to see Langrock, J Press, David MacDaid and Arthur Rosenberg ads for cashmere sweaters, hose, sport coats and scarves from 1937? You'll find them.)

Cashmere sweaters were heavily and consistently advertised to the students of Yale and Princeton in the 1950s and 60s, and even in the 1930s and 40s, but a little less so.

I haven't reviewed the Harvard Crimson archives yet.

Although garments made of cashmere were consistently marketed to the Ivy League population during the period I checked--1930 through 1967--I haven't seen any evidence that they were obligatory--not in the way that students just had to have OCBDs, flat-front flannel trousers, 3-roll-2 jackets, crewneck shetland sweaters, loafers and (following World War II) khakis. (Similarly, v-neck lambswool sweaters were frequently advertised way back when, yet today's Tradsters and/or Ivy League afficionados are all about the crewneck shetland--it's gotta be shetland. With a crewneck.)

Conclusion: You want to wear a cashmere sweater? Wear a cashmere sweater. The ghosts of all the salesmen who worked at Langrock in the 1930s will look favorably upon you. Especially if you figure out a way to get a commission to them.


----------



## Dannyboy005

Wow thanks for all the input gents. Really interesting to hear some historical perspective as well. I had a feeling that cashmere sweaters fit in somewhere in the trad canon.

As much as I love the idea of wearing classic and masculine shetland sweaters (and harris tweed), I just find the darn things to be a bit itchy and uncomfortable at times.


----------



## Charles Dana

Dannyboy005 said:


> . As much as I love the idea of wearing classic and masculine shetland sweaters (and harris tweed), I just find the darn things to be a bit itchy and uncomfortable at times.


Treat yourself to a cashmere sweater if it's within your budget. It's good to care about the elements and perimeters of "Trad," because that kind of mindfulness will motivate you to dress with understated good taste. Please understand, however, that the boundaries of "Trad" are neither rigid nor sacrosanct. Always dress with care, but at the same time, don't take any "canon" of dressing so seriously that you end up worrying for no reason. (Exception: formalwear. Take that seriously. If you're going to wear a tuxedo, don't push any boundaries; do it right and do it traditionally. But sweaters? You've got leeway.)


----------



## Dannyboy005

Charles Dana said:


> Treat yourself to a cashmere sweater if it's within your budget. It's good to care about the elements and perimeters of "Trad," because that kind of mindfulness will motivate you to dress with understated good taste. Please understand, however, that the boundaries of "Trad" are neither rigid nor sacrosanct. Always dress with care, but at the same time, don't take any "canon" of dressing so seriously that you end up worrying for no reason. (Exception: formalwear. Take that seriously. If you're going to wear a tuxedo, don't push any boundaries; do it right and do it traditionally. But sweaters? You've got leeway.)


Good advice, thanks.


----------



## LukeRoz

Any thoughts on if these shoes fit the bill for a trad laceup option?

https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/john-w...personalizedsort&fashioncolor=LUGGAGE LEATHER


----------



## LukeRoz

LukeRoz said:


> Any thoughts on if these shoes fit the bill for a trad laceup option?
> 
> https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/john-w-nordstrom-torres-plain-toe-derby-men/4609522?origin=category-personalizedsort&fashioncolor=LUGGAGE LEATHER


Thoughts?


----------



## Dragoon

I think they are nice looking shoes and would go well with trad clothing.


----------



## MattO

Where are people getting khakis now? Really like Jack Donnellys -- can't get those right now, the inventory on the Bill's web site seems odd, not sure what the M4 is, and I find the khakis at the institutions like O'Connell's to be a little too dressy.

Any ideas?


----------



## eagle2250

^^Take a look at 
Brooks Brother's Clarke's Advantage Chinos. Bought on sale, they are nicely priced, they look good and wear well, and an we really ask anything more than that of our chinos?


----------



## Charles Dana

MattO—

In addition to Brooks Brothers, try LL Bean, Lands’ End, or All American Khakis.


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## jankdc

Should a jacket's measurement be pit to pit, doubled and then subtracting 4" or 2"?


----------



## MattO

Thanks eagle2250 and Charles Dana. All good suggestions, hadn't heard of the All American Khakis before. May check those out. FYI in my search I also came across some promising looking khakis available from Harrison Ltd. in Alabama -- they look great although the price is high for khakis.


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## LukeRoz

Would this fit the bill for a trad everyday overcoat? I'm afraid the waxed cotton dresses it down to much to do with a suit, except in a pinch. Thoughts? Haven't mad much luck finding a Mac or balmacaan...

https://well-spent.com/american-trench-x-epaulet-waxed-canvas-mac-coats/


----------



## smmrfld

LukeRoz said:


> Would this fit the bill for a trad everyday overcoat? I'm afraid the waxed cotton dresses it down to much to do with a suit, except in a pinch. Thoughts? Haven't mad much luck finding a Mac or balmacaan...
> 
> https://well-spent.com/american-trench-x-epaulet-waxed-canvas-mac-coats/


I have that coat in olive...absolutely terrific.


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## New Old Stock

Not sure if this is the right place for this & I'm sure it's difficult without the actual item to touch .... but could someone tell me what fabric these two sport coats are made of?






































There aren't any tags besides the collar labels on either of them. The glen plaid is lightweight and is stiffer than regular worsted suiting, if that helps.
Thanks!


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## Charles Dana

^ I'll guess and say that the herringbone jacket perhaps is some combination of silk, linen, and wool and that the glen check could be a linen-wool blend. 

Are you sure there’s no tag sewn into the interior of one of the inside pockets of each jacket?


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## New Old Stock

Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, unfortunately there are no labels of any kind except the Brooks branding behind the neck.
The glen plaid doesn't matter either way because I'm only wearing it in the summer - thats how lightweight it is.
But when is it appropriate to wear the herringbone? If it is silk (or silk blend) should I stick to warmer months? 
Thanks again.


----------



## Charles Dana

New Old Stock said:


> . But when is it appropriate to wear the herringbone? If it is silk (or silk blend) should I stick to warmer months? Thanks again.


You're welcome!

I wouldn't go so far as to tell you that the herringbone jacket is only for the warmer months. Primarily it is, but to impose a rule that says you can't wear it during cooler weather would be unnecessarily restrictive in my view.

You could wear the herringbone in cool weather in a variety of casual indoor contexts. You might need to wear a car coat or Barbour jacket when you're coming and going, depending on how cool it is. And indeed, a tweed jacket made of 100% wool would probably be the better choice at that time of year. Still, it's going too far to tell yourself that you can never wear it during the cooler months.

If the jacket were clearly 100% linen, then it would look odd to wear it in anything other than warm temperatures. However, a blended fabric gives you somewhat more flexibility. Just use common sense-also wear some kind of outerwear so you don't freeze to death.


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## Drew4au

What’s the board’s opinion about wearing a navy grenadine or knit tie with a blue blazer and Black Watch trousers? Asking for a friend ...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Drew4au

Anybody???

I’m disinclined to even try it with a white shirt. Despite She Who Must Be Obeyed’s protests, I’m disinclined to pair a solid tie against a white background while wearing a blazer, GTH pants, and deal sleds as I intend. Also, am I alone in finding white dress shirts too severe for party pants?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## New Old Stock

Drew4au said:


> Anybody???
> I'm disinclined to even try it with a white shirt. Despite She Who Must Be Obeyed's protests, I'm disinclined to pair a solid tie against a white background while wearing a blazer, GTH pants, and deal sleds as I intend. Also, am I alone in finding white dress shirts too severe for party pants?


You're going to be wearing tartan trousers and her only comment on the outfit is shirt color!? You've won the war, give her _that_ battle at least!

But on a serious note, my first reaction was that it may be too monochromatic. Here is an example that looks fine to me, though;










This is the type of situation where I fall back on emblematic ties. Haven't failed me yet.


----------



## Drew4au

New Old Stock said:


> You're going to be wearing tartan trousers and her only comment on the outfit is shirt color!? You've won the war, give her _that_ battle at least!
> 
> But on a serious note, my first reaction was that it may be too monochromatic. Here is an example that looks fine to me, though;
> 
> View attachment 19290
> 
> 
> This is the type of situation where I fall back on emblematic ties. Haven't failed me yet.


She Who Must Be Obeyed bought the pants for me. From Ben Silver. Because she went to Press and felt the fabric and disapproved, and I balked at paying Ben Silver prices for a pair of pants. And the pants were her idea to begin with.


----------



## BrewTuna

Is this a 3/2 or just a 3b? Sometimes its hard to tell on eBay because the sellers will button up everything.


----------



## mhj

BrewTuna said:


> Is this a 3/2 or just a 3b? Sometimes its hard to tell on eBay because the sellers will button up everything.


It looks to me like a 3/2. There are no visible darts and there are 2 buttons on the sleeve which belongs to the same era as a 3/2.


----------



## FLMike

BrewTuna said:


> Is this a 3/2 or just a 3b? Sometimes its hard to tell on eBay because the sellers will button up everything.


3/2 sack.


----------



## LeeLo

mhj said:


> It looks to me like a 3/2. There are no visible darts and there are 2 buttons on the sleeve which belongs to the same era as a 3/2.


That's a 3/2. You can tell because the top button is hanging on for dear life. But this jacket has some seriously padded shoulders. I would pass on this one if I were you.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## August West

i just picked up a pair of walnut Allen Edmonds Macneil. Overall I'm pleased with the pair I received, though they have a very strong odor to them; a smell similar to varnish. The smell has overtaken my entire office. Has anyone else ever experienced anything similar? I own 6 or 7 other pair of Allen Edmonds, and have never noticed this in the past. 

I'm sure the smell will fade with time, though it makes me wonder what exactly was applied to the leather during the finishing process.


----------



## Robertson

August West said:


> i just picked up a pair of walnut Allen Edmonds Macneil. Overall I'm pleased with the pair I received, though they have a very strong odor to them; a smell similar to varnish. The smell has overtaken my entire office. Has anyone else ever experienced anything similar? I own 6 or 7 other pair of Allen Edmonds, and have never noticed this in the past.
> 
> I'm sure the smell will fade with time, though it makes me wonder what exactly was applied to the leather during the finishing process.


I think I read their new finish is sprayed on. The AE factory probably is not a very good place for your lungs.


----------



## New Old Stock

I'm slowly putting together my black tie ensemble. Used the search function here and the Black Tie Guide site and it seems everyone agrees on one thing - the lapel facing / bow tie / cummerbund material should be the same. The (main) choices in fabric being satin, barathea, and grosgrain.

Satin is offered across the board, but every retailer Ive shopped offers the lapel facing in grosgrain (twill weave if im not mistaken) and pair it with bow tie and cummerbund in barathea (more of a hopsack weave if im not mistaken). What gives?


----------



## August West

Robertson said:


> I think I read their new finish is sprayed on. The AE factory probably is not a very good place for your lungs.


Makes sense, thanks for your reply. Ive left them out of the box, and the smell is now almost gone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dannyboy005

Chinos too short? Tailor advised against this length.


----------



## Fading Fast

Dannyboy005 said:


> Chinos too short? Tailor advised against this length.
> View attachment 19578


From the front, they look spot on to me assuming you were going for a slight break (which is, IMHO, a right-down-the-fairway choice).

And I love that radiator, window and rug.


----------



## Dannyboy005

Fading Fast said:


> From the front, they look spot on to me assuming you were going for a slight break (which is, IMHO, a right-down-the-fairway choice).
> 
> And I love that radiator, window and rug.


Thanks for the reassurance FF, much appreciated.


----------



## eagle2250

That is exactly the length I try to wear mine! To my eye, yours look perfect!


----------



## August West

Dannyboy005 said:


> Chinos too short? Tailor advised against this length.
> View attachment 19578


Definitely not too short! I've got my local tailor to understand that I prefer no break, but anytime I get pants altered at Brooks it takes a few trips back for them to get it right. It's frustrating because I'm always clear what I want up front, and have them pin it to what looks like the correct length.


----------



## Dannyboy005

August West said:


> Definitely not too short! I've got my local tailor to understand that I prefer no break, but anytime I get pants altered at Brooks it takes a few trips back for them to get it right. It's frustrating because I'm always clear what I want up front, and have them pin it to what looks like the correct length.


I can relate. My suspicion is that many tailors will often cut slightly longer then where the pants are pinned.


----------



## NicholasJenkins

Not at all too short. If anything, slightly too much break. They look very good in the picture.


----------



## New Old Stock

If Im not mistaken it looks like youre wearing chukka boots. If thats so, in my experience, the length is perfect because it should lose that slight break with low vamped shoes like boat shoes. But to my eye the slight break looks fine, if not better, with boots.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Not to argue, but wouldn't the effect of wearing boat shoes be the opposite of what you describe. Thin soled boat shoes would, replacing the more robust sole/heel structure of a chukka boot (in which the picture was taken) result in the slight break of the trouser leg becoming a full break. It is early and I am still working on my first cup of Joe...I may be missing something. LOL.


----------



## August West

Eagle, I'd tend to agree with NOS. I would think that a higher vamped/bulkier shoe has more volume, so it would tend to "push up" more on the bottom of the pants thus causing more break.


----------



## Fading Fast

August West said:


> Eagle, I'd tend to agree with NOS. I would think that a higher vamped/bulkier shoe has more volume, so it would tend to "push up" more on the bottom of the pants thus causing more break.


This has been experience too. My pants look "longer" in my Chukkas than in my boat shoes for the reasons you note (I think). But I waited until I was fully awake to make sure I wasn't tangling my thoughts up on this one, so I understand where Eagle is coming from.


----------



## eagle2250

^^Phew!! Thank you for reassuring me that my sanity is not totally lost (LOL). Having consulted with SWMBO regarding the length she hems my trouser legs, she did remind me that when hemming trouser legs for pairs that I will be wearing with my western boot designs, particularly the "cowboy" (vs the Roper) designs, she hems the legs with the inseams perhaps an inch or so longer than on those to be worn with flat heeled, low quarter shoes. The height of the heel does make a difference.


----------



## jbeck6

I dropped off some alden boots for a topy as I plan on wearing these in the winder and originally decided to cover the sole and leave the dovetailed heel, but now I am having second thoughts. 2 topy related questions:

1 - should you get a heel lift put on a leather/dovetailed rubber heel to protect from the deicing chemicals they put on the road? There is a lot of information out there about how salt and chemicals will destroy and wear down the leather sole quickly, but I can't find anything on if the chemicals destroy the sole no matter what (meaning this should be covered even though it isn't a high wear area), or if they only increase wear (which wouldn't matter on this part of the boot as the heel will still wear out from the back first).

2 - will getting a topy on a brand new sole, but not getting a heel lift/topy on the heel cause the boots to walk in an uneven fashion (as the sole will be a few millimeters higher, but the heel would not have been lifted)?

Thanks!


----------



## DLW

I saw a photo of Billax where he is wearing a herringbone overcoat. He stated the coat has 1 1/4" bones. I'm curious on how the pattern is measured.


----------



## MDP

Anyone have any experience matching an orphan suit coat to pants?

There's a BB sack suit jacket I'm looking at on eBay. It's medium/dark grey and has Makers/Brooksease label. 

I so rarely find sack cuts in my size, I'm tempted to buy it and then try to find pants that match. Anyone know how consistent Brooks has been with their fabrics over the years?


----------



## Billax

DLW said:


> I saw a photo of Billax where he is wearing a herringbone overcoat. He stated the coat has 1 1/4" bones. I'm curious on how the pattern is measured.


I have not found a reference as to the "correct" way to measure the width of a herringbone, so I took the most conservative measure - at 90º from the vertical. Here's a picture:










Hope that is helpful.


----------



## DLW

Yes, very helpful. Thank you.


----------



## TDWat

MDP said:


> Anyone have any experience matching an orphan suit coat to pants?
> 
> There's a BB sack suit jacket I'm looking at on eBay. It's medium/dark grey and has Makers/Brooksease label.
> 
> I so rarely find sack cuts in my size, I'm tempted to buy it and then try to find pants that match. Anyone know how consistent Brooks has been with their fabrics over the years?


I've tried to find pants for an orphan jacket without much success. The closest that I've gotten using eBay/thrift stores is a navy blue ophaned suit that is passable from a distance but distinctly different shades of blue when you get closer. If you decide to try it, my recommendation is wear the jacket to a clothing store to look for pants rather than trying to match online using pictures.


----------



## Charles Dana

MDP said:


> . There's a BB sack suit jacket I'm looking at on eBay. I'm tempted to buy it and then try to find pants that match.


Forget it. Much better ways to spend your time.


----------



## Dingus

Does anyone know what this crest / shield symbol represents on these vintage Langrock of Princeton skinny striped ties? It's not Princeton, as far as I can tell (that would be too easy!). Thanks in advance.


----------



## Dannyboy005

Fellow style enthusiasts, I need your advice. Just went in for a fitting of a new MTM tuxedo and was less than thrilled with the initial fit. Do you fellas think this is workable or should I be demanding a refund? Thanks


----------



## yoshi

Dannyboy005 said:


> Fellow style enthusiasts, I need your advice. Just went in for a fitting of a new MTM tuxedo and was less than thrilled with the initial fit. Do you fellas think this is workable or should I be demanding a refund? Thanks
> 
> View attachment 20370


I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about the shoulders. I would be very upset in your situation.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm going to emphasize this ⇧ as the shoulders look not good at all (too big for your shoulder width) and - as I understand it - can't really be fixed with tailoring. They are one of the things that needs to be right from the start. For an MTM, I think you'd be fully justified in asking for a refund or, at minimum, a do over (a completely new tux jacket).


----------



## Dannyboy005

Fading Fast said:


> I'm going to emphasize this ⇧ as the shoulders look not good at all (too big for your shoulder width) and - as I understand it - can't really be fixed with tailoring. They are one of the things that needs to be right from the start. For an MTM, I think you'd be fully justified in asking for a refund or, at minimum, a do over (a completely new tux jacket).





yoshi said:


> I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about the shoulders. I would be very upset in your situation.


Thanks gents. Yes the situation is causing me a great deal of stress since the shop has been giving me a lot of resistance, saying the jacket actually fits correctly, etc...

Hoping to negotiate either remake or refund later today.


----------



## Fading Fast

Dannyboy005 said:


> Thanks gents. Yes the situation is causing me a great deal of stress since the shop has been giving me a lot of resistance, saying the jacket actually fits correctly, etc...
> 
> Hoping to negotiate either remake or refund later today.


Good luck - I've been in your shoes and it isn't easy. Calmly but firmly stand your ground - you are in the right. It might help if you wear a suit that fits you particularly well (especially in the shoulders) to show them the difference. It makes your argument stronger. Let us know how it goes, I'm rooting for you.


----------



## New Old Stock

I'd also check the order sheet. Maybe someone put the wrong number down for the shoulder measurement.
I'd hesitate to give them a second chance if they are fine letting you leave the store with something you're not satisfied with.


----------



## Dannyboy005

Thanks for the support guys. The situation was resolved today. I (calmly) insisted to the store owner that the jacket would have to be remade. She (and all her associates) maintained that the initial jacket fit was correct and therefore offered me a refund on my deposit because we had such differing viewpoints. 

So now I'm back to square one - and I couldn't be more relieved! Still need a tuxedo though.. and weary of another MTM nightmare.


----------



## Fading Fast

Dannyboy005 said:


> Thanks for the support guys. The situation was resolved today. I (calmly) insisted to the store owner that the jacket would have to be remade. She (and all her associates) maintained that the initial jacket fit was correct and therefore offered me a refund on my deposit because we had such differing viewpoints.
> 
> So now I'm back to square one - and I couldn't be more relieved! Still need a tuxedo though.. and weary of another MTM nightmare.


Fantastic - very glad you got your money back. Are you sure you need MTM or could a talented tailor make a RTW tux work for you? Just from your picture, you don't look like a difficult fit, but of course, pictures don't tell the full story.

I've done RTW with a really good tailor and I've done MTM. Of course, with MTM, you get to choose more options, etc., but with RTW, you know if the fit - overall - will work right away. If I'm happy with the RTW cut, fabric, details, etc. - or if they are pretty close to what I want - I usually go that route as, then, I know, before purchasing it, if the fit works as I know what a good tailor can and can't do.

On the value side of the equation, J.Crew offers some decent value that - if the basic fit works for you - a good tailor could make it spot on. If money is much freer, Polo has some really nice ones.

Good luck, it's great that they did the right thing by you.


----------



## Dannyboy005

Fading Fast said:


> Fantastic - very glad you got your money back. Are you sure you need MTM or could a talented tailor make a RTW tux work for you? Just from your picture, you don't look like a difficult fit, but of course, pictures don't tell the full story.
> 
> I've done RTW with a really good tailor and I've done MTM. Of course, with MTM, you get to choose more options, etc., but with RTW, you know if the fit - overall - will work right away. If I'm happy with the RTW cut, fabric, details, etc. - or if they are pretty close to what I want - I usually go that route as, then, I know, before purchasing it, if the fit works as I know what a good tailor can and can't do.
> 
> On the value side of the equation, J.Crew offers some decent value that - if the basic fit works for you - a good tailor could make it spot on. If money is much freer, Polo has some really nice ones.
> 
> Good luck, it's great that they did the right thing by you.


Thanks for the suggestion FF. I'm pretty particular about the details (as in peak lapel, single button) so it's tough to find RTW in the right style AND size, and where I live there's almost nothing I could actually try on.

I have looked at J Crew but find the cut a little trendy for a tuxedo (thin lapels, short jacket, etc). Polo I love, but looks like they don't have my size at the moment in a peak lapel. On the plus side, I see that Ralph is shipping to canada now which is new to me.

The hunt continues. Thanks again.


----------



## Dannyboy005

Just ordered a peak lapel dinner suit from Charles Tyrwhitt so we'll see how that goes.


----------



## Fading Fast

Dannyboy005 said:


> Just ordered a peak lapel dinner suit from Charles Tyrwhitt so we'll see how that goes.


MTM or RTW?


----------



## Dannyboy005

Fading Fast said:


> MTM or RTW?


RTW. As far as I know CT doesn't offer MTM.


----------



## Fading Fast

Dannyboy005 said:


> RTW. As far as I know CT doesn't offer MTM.


Hopefully, it will work out well - look forward to an update when you get it.


----------



## benjclark

Gents,
Long story short: new job, cross country move, new climate. I have a bit of tradly stuff I’d like to send to someone taking consignments. Not Spoo stuff, he’s getting some of it, but most is what would work on the sale forum here, I just don’t have time. Help!


----------



## eagle2250

Benjack: As I regularly thin the herd (of garments and shoes/boots) in my closet(s), I've found that contributing such items to our church resale shop and/or The (local) Goodwill Store is more convenient, less stressful and helps assuage any subconscious guilt concerning my obvious overspending in these areas. Just a thought! Good luck with your efforts to thin the herd.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Benjack: As I regularly thin the herd (of garments and shoes/boots) in my closet(s), I've found that contributing such items to our church resale shop and/or The (local) Goodwill Store is more convenient, less stressful and helps assuage any subconscious guilt concerning my obvious overspending in these areas. Just a thought! Good luck with your efforts to thin the herd.


I do likewise - hope it helps a bit.


----------



## knucklehead

Gents:
I'm looking for input on starching dress shirts (I found an old thread on the subject in the FF, but I'd like to hear from the guys here). I recently read an article about Robert Mueller's starched white dress shirts. It indicated that there is a dispute in the trad community about whether starching is proper; some purists say no and others think that no starch looks sloppy. I've seen plenty of unstarched shirts on guys I admire here. And I recall a post in which they were urged to at least take stab at ironing collars. Thoughts?


----------



## Fading Fast

knucklehead said:


> Gents:
> I'm looking for input on starching dress shirts (I found an old thread on the subject in the FF, but I'd like to hear from the guys here). I recently read an article about Robert Mueller's starched white dress shirts. It indicated that there is a dispute in the trad community about whether starching is proper; some purists say no and others think that no starch looks sloppy. I've seen plenty of unstarched shirts on guys I admire here. And I recall a post in which they were urged to at least take stab at ironing collars. Thoughts?


I'm a no-starch guy as, IMHO, a well-made, properly ironed dress shirt looks spot on without it; whereas, a starched one has a too-pressed and not-natural look as the material does't move or drape the way cotton moves and drapes.

Also, I believe starching shortens the life of the shirt as it increases the breakage in the material's fibers.

As to what was done in Trad land - I think both starched and non-starched shirts roamed the land.

As to the Ivy world - I'd love to hear from Billax or some one else who knows? My guess is it was frowned upon as it seems too-affected, trying-to-hard for the Ivy clothing ethos (but that's just a guess as I'm too young and not from that world anyway).


----------



## Fading Fast

I was in BB today (picked up a pink OCBD for the spring) and noticed several styles of white pants - cords, chinos and 5-pockets - were being shown. I've also noticed - over the last few years - more white pants from Ralph, J.Crew and other trad-leaning stores.

Are white pants part of the Trad world historically? What about the narrower Ivy world?

I know there used to be a "no-white-before Memorial Day / after Labor Day" norm, but even then, it seemed, IMHO, that white was a pretty limited as a pants' color - used mainly for summer linen dress pants and not much else (but I've been wrong before...and often).


----------



## TimF

Fading Fast said:


> I'm a no-starch guy as, IMHO, a well-made, properly ironed dress shirt looks spot on without it; whereas, a starched one has a too-pressed and not-natural look as the material does't move or drape the way cotton moves and drapes.
> 
> Also, I believe starching shortens the life of the shirt as it increases the breakage in the material's fibers.
> 
> As to what was done in Trad land - I think both starched and non-starched shirts roamed the land.
> 
> As to the Ivy world - I'd love to hear from Billax or some one else who knows? My guess is it was frowned upon as it seems too-affected, trying-to-hard for the Ivy clothing ethos (but that's just a guess as I'm too young and not from that world anyway).


I'm strictly no-starch myself as well. I'm even against ironing for shirts :cold:.

In my experience the guys who are heavy into starching have a military background. Either they or their father/grandfather were military and they passed that outlook down.


----------



## Miket61

No starch here either. Used to be light starch but it shrank the linings of collars and cuffs making shirts unwearable (one shirt lost 1 1/4” in the collar).

I think another type who starch their shirts heavily are those who recall hearing something about starched shirts being classy - maybe from a description of white tie? Such was the case with someone I knew who wanted his shirts to stand on their own.


----------



## BRtrad

Gents,
I've bought a gold-tone Timex Weekender 38mm on a madras strap. Do you think it looks better with a navy-red-navy grosgrain band or on a Goldfinger-pattern one (, red, olive)? Thanks!


----------



## Lawschooled

Would somebody be able to post a picture of LLB Wrinkle-Free Double L chinos in khaki under real world lighting conditions? 
Online they seem a bit grayish. I'm looking for beater chinos to replace my worn BB Advantage.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> Are white pants part of the Trad world historically?


As far as I can tell, no. The closest thing to white pants in the Trad world would have been the bone-colored jeans that were popular (even beyond the Trad world) in the 1960's; these were a shade lighter than the "wheat" jeans that sometimes get mentioned in Trad/Ivy discussion forums.

Snowy white jeans were around in the 1960s-Robert Culp, in character as Kelly Robinson, wore them now and then on the TV series "I Spy." But I don't think they ever seeped into the Trad wardrobe, except by happenstance. They were just another garment in the clothing department, not specific to any one socioeconomic group.



> What about the narrower Ivy world?


If you mean were they ever a part of the Ivy world? Yes, for a time, but in limited circumstances: We've already discussed the infamous white flannel and white duck trousers that were worn while playing tennis and vacationing in tropical resorts. And in the 1920s at Princeton, the students marching in various celebratory parades (which at Princeton were called "P-rades") were required to wear white trousers, a dark coat, and a straw hat.

Beyond resort wear, sports, and celebrations (in which they were regarded as part of a costume), I've seen no evidence that pure-white trousers were in general use in the Ivy League. There would have been individual exceptions in the 1960s, when white jeans came on the market.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> As far as I can tell, no. The closest thing to white pants in the Trad world would have been the bone-colored jeans that were popular (even beyond the Trad world) in the 1960's; these were a shade lighter than the "wheat" jeans that sometimes get mentioned in Trad/Ivy discussion forums.
> 
> Snowy white jeans were around in the 1960s-Robert Culp, in character as Kelly Robinson, wore them now and then on the TV series "I Spy." But I don't think they ever seeped into the Trad wardrobe, except by happenstance. They were just another garment in the clothing department, not specific to any one socioeconomic group.
> 
> If you mean were they ever a part of the Ivy world? Yes, for a time, but in limited circumstances: We've already discussed the infamous white flannel and white duck trousers that were worn while playing tennis and vacationing in tropical resorts. And in the 1920s at Princeton, the students marching in various celebratory parades (which at Princeton were called "P-rades") were required to wear white trousers, a dark coat, and a straw hat.
> 
> Beyond resort wear, sports, and celebrations (in which they were regarded as part of a costume), I've seen no evidence that pure-white trousers were in general use in the Ivy League.


Thank you for the really good and thoughtful answer.

For whatever reason, white pants seem to be having a moment in men's fashion now though.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> For whatever reason, white pants seem to be having a moment in men's fashion now though.


You know what that means, don't you? Be careful where you sit, and don't put too much ketchup on your hot dog.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> You know what that means, don't you? Be careful where you sit, and don't put too much ketchup on your hot dog.


That ⇧ is reason one; there's also, at 6'1" 150lbs, in white pants, my legs would look like two drinking straws; reason three - they in no way fit the Trad/Ivy echo I try for; oh, and four, I always look ridiculous trying to pull of fashion which is why I don't try.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
But, but you do have your own style and you do pull if off very nicely!


----------



## Charles Dana

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> But, but you do have your own style and you do pull if off very nicely!


I wouldn't know about that. I do know that when he has it on, it looks good.


----------



## August West

Charles Dana said:


> You know what that means, don't you? Be careful where you sit, and don't put too much *mustard* on your hot dog.


Mr. Dana, your insights on this forum have lead me to the conclusion that you are a man of impeccable taste. For the record, I've taken the liberty of correcting your post to what I'm sure was your actual intention.


----------



## fishertw

benjclark said:


> Gents,
> Long story short: new job, cross country move, new climate. I have a bit of tradly stuff I'd like to send to someone taking consignments. Not Spoo stuff, he's getting some of it, but most is what would work on the sale forum here, I just don't have time. Help!


If you've got a local Veterans Administration they frequently have a "closet" which disabled vets can use to get outfits to go to job interviews in. I've given a number of jackets, suits etc to the one in Johnson City Tenn and they were very appreciated.


----------



## Charles Dana

August West said:


> Mr. Dana, your insights on this forum have lead me to the conclusion that you are a man of impeccable taste. For the record, I've taken the liberty of correcting your post to what I'm sure was your actual intention.


Mustard! Of course! Thank you.

Last Friday I put on some freshly-laundered stone chinos. A few hours later, at lunchtime, I was just about to take my very first bite of stir-fried chicken and broccoli. As the food was halfway to my mouth, a dab of chili sauce fell into my lap. I didn't mind as much as I ordinarily would have, because on that day--all day--the San Francisco area was being pummeled by strong rain and winds--a so-called "atmospheric river." Because I knew the weather would be bad that day, I was wearing my cheap, sacrificial trousers from Old Navy: the ones I had specifically purchased so that I would have something that could take a beating without my getting bent out of shape. I'm sure the stain will come out in the wash--but if it doesn't, at least the chinos aren't the ones I bought from O'Connell's.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> Mustard! Of course! Thank you.
> 
> Last Friday I put on some freshly-laundered stone chinos. A few hours later, at lunchtime, I was just about to take my very first bite of stir-fried chicken and broccoli. As the food was halfway to my mouth, a dab of chili sauce fell into my lap. I didn't mind as much as I ordinarily would have, because on that day--all day--the San Francisco area was being pummeled by strong rain and winds--a so-called "atmospheric river." Because I knew the weather would be bad that day, I was wearing my cheap, sacrificial trousers from Old Navy: the ones I had specifically purchased so that I would have something that could take a beating without my getting bent out of shape. I'm sure the stain will come out in the wash--but if it doesn't, at least the chinos aren't the ones I bought from O'Connell's.


I own several Old Navy items that serve the exact same purpose. The funny thing, though, is that I've come to like some of my older Old Navy chinos and wish I had bought more as they've changed the model by now.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> I own several Old Navy items that serve the exact same purpose. The funny thing, though, is that I've come to like some of my older Old Navy chinos and wish I had bought more as they've changed the model by now.


I use my Old Navy chinos the way other people use hiking pants. I'm surprised at how well they are holding up. After all the miles I've traipsed around in them, the cuffs still aren't showing any signs of fraying. Too bad they have such a low rise; otherwise they would be more than beater trousers.


----------



## Achen Bartels

Greetings
After several transatlantic transactions I find I am an 11B in 
Allen Edmonds McNeils. Does anyone who wears McNeils in 11B also have some Alden PTBs and can confirm which size I should buy?
Many thanks
AB


----------



## eagle2250

If you are buying a pair of Alden PTB's built on the Barrie last and you normally wear a size 13B, order a size 12.5B in the Barrie last. Good luck in your hunt!


----------



## denace_mennis

I'm looking to invest in some repp ties. There seems to be a plethora of variations. What colors/designs are the most versatile? What are some good brands to look for on a budget?


----------



## Fading Fast

denace_mennis said:


> I'm looking to invest in some repp ties. There seems to be a plethora of variations. What colors/designs are the most versatile? What are some good brands to look for on a budget?


IMHO, this is one of the backbones of any trad tie collection:









There are several variation on the stripes' width, as well as, the tie's material - wool, silk, linen - and even style, as it looks good in a knit too.

IMHO, you can't go wrong with any and all as a good wardrobe will have several versions.

BB makes a good one, but almost any half-leaning-trad tie maker will offer one or several versions of it.


----------



## FLMike

denace_mennis said:


> I'm looking to invest in some repp ties. There seems to be a plethora of variations. What colors/designs are the most versatile? What are some good brands to look for on a budget?


You really can't go wrong with the Brooks Brothers rep striped ties. The BB #4 stripe that FF suggested is a classic, as is their #1 stripe. However, the BB #3 stripe is my personal favorite....incredibly versatile and comes in a dozen different color combinations. As an example:


----------



## denace_mennis

Thank you, Fading Fast and FLMike. I'll definitely be looking for more ties from Brook Brothers. I've thrifted a couple foulard ties by them and they've become my favorites.


----------



## Charles Dana

Earlier in this thread, there was some discussion about food, particularly mustard from hot dogs, dripping onto freshly-laundered trousers. I am belatedly quoting the following verse from the late writer Richard Armour, because it fits right in:

“Nothing attracts
The mustard from wieners
As much as the slacks
Just back from the cleaners.”


----------



## TropicalCyclone

denace_mennis said:


> I'm looking to invest in some repp ties. There seems to be a plethora of variations. What colors/designs are the most versatile? What are some good brands to look for on a budget?


The Brooks Brothers #1 in Red and Gold is always a classic and a favorite of mine. Ben Silver also has a large collection of regimental ties that are very nice, if those are too pricey, you could head to Land's End. If all else fails, just go on eBay and search striped tie and buy whatever you find appealing.


----------



## Charles Dana

Denace-Mennis: Get a tie just like the one that FLMike showed you—gold/yellow stripes over a navy blue background. It’s versatile because it goes equally well with a variety of sport coats and suits. I call it “the Fred Astaire tie” because it seems to have been a favorite of his.


----------



## Lawschooled

I need a quick fit opinion on a recently thriftet J Press sport coat. It's a 38R and while I like the fit, I'm not sure if I should/could size down or go for 38S because it seems a tad long?


----------



## PG63

Lawschooled said:


> I need a quick fit opinion on a recently thriftet J Press sport coat. It's a 38R and while I like the fit, I'm not sure if I should/could size down or go for 38S because it seems a tad long?
> 
> View attachment 21445
> View attachment 21447
> View attachment 21448


Nice jacket!

I think the jacket length is OK, but the shoulders need to be taken in a little bit. I think the sleeves are OK too, but you should try it with a long-sleeve dress shirt to confirm.


----------



## Fading Fast

Lawschooled said:


> I need a quick fit opinion on a recently thriftet J Press sport coat. It's a 38R and while I like the fit, I'm not sure if I should/could size down or go for 38S because it seems a tad long?
> 
> View attachment 21445
> View attachment 21447
> View attachment 21448


I think the length is fine. What might be making you question the length is today's fashion to wear sport coats short versus traditional lengths. The length on yours versus where it hits you relative to your, well, behind (I'm guessing a bit, as I can't really tell) and relative to your hands looks fine (perhaps on the long side of fine, but fine).

But I think PG63 is on to something as the shoulders look a touch big - not the easiest thing to tell from the pics - which is very hard to tailor. If possible, you might want to try 37 reg for a better fit in the shoulders and chest area.


----------



## Lawschooled

Thanks for the quick replies FF and PG63!

Shoulders are actually another point I'm not 100% sure about, the (minimal) padding does seem to "float" a tiny bit, but I'm not sure if it's due to size or my weird shoulder drop. Looks mostly find in real life, but could probably be slightly better.
Got the sport coat of Ebay, so a size swap won't be possible. Maybe I'll have to let it go there again. (or hope rowing will lead to a little gain in the shoulders)
I'll definintely drop by Press next time I'm in NYC to try out some sizes for future acquisitions.


----------



## TimF

Given it's a thrifted, worn item, my suggestion is to do nothing. I concur with the posters before me that the length is good. Any shorter looks wrong and is completely against the natural-shoulder look.

Shoulder might well be a tad big, but not unwearably so. To confirm you might want to take a pic with your arms lifted and extended. Fixing the shoulders could easily run you 1.5 - 2x your purchase price. Would you be interested?

That leaves us sleeve length, which could be shortened slightly, depending on how much cuff you'd like to show. But again, given this is thrifted, shortening sleeves could cost 50-75% of purchase price, all for an item at the middle of its life. The decision is yours, but my suggestion is to wear and enjoy as is.


----------



## Charles Dana

Lawschooled: I agree with the others who have replied to you.

The jacket's length is good. The shoulders, though they look fine from the front, do look slightly wide from the back. But only slightly.

The question now is: What, if anything, should you do with the jacket?

I say (a) keep it and (b) leave the shoulders alone.

For purposes of your post, you are standing as still as a rock and are inviting people to scrutinize your garment and to render a critical assessment of it. In real life, however, you are moving about and people are not paying much--if any--attention to what you are wearing. In real life, the jacket's shoulders are merely borderline wide—so borderline that they don't require any alteration (assuming they could be altered, which is uncertain. They certainly could not be altered inexpensively).

Just keep the jacket and wear it as is.

Here's what I don't want you to do: I don't want you to walk up to random strangers and say, "Do me a favor, will you? I'm going to turn around and I want you to examine the shoulders of this jacket I'm wearing. What? Oh--the buttonhole on the lapel? This is a 3-roll-2 sack. I said '3-roll-2.' Huh? It's a long story. Nah, you don't want to hear it--trust me, the only people who care have deep psychological problems. So anyway. What I want you to do is focus like a laser beam on the shoulders when I turn around, then tell me if you think they are too wide. As in: Do you think they should be altered? Are they a problem? Do they look bad? Really, really focus and let me know if you see anything wrong, no matter how small. What's that? No, I never button the top one. Well, because it isn't meant to be buttoned. I don't know; it's supposed to make me look relaxed and unconcerned. I know I sound worried—it’s complicated. But I look like I’m at ease. Yes, I know that technically the buttonhole doesn't need to be there. It has to do with the lapel roll and Yale University. No, I don't go to Yale. But...the shoulders--could you please tell me what you think of the shoulders? Wha? J. Press. Jacobi. It's a lapel roll thing. So...I'm going to turn around now. No I can't. Well, I could button it, but that would mess up the front of the jacket. Huh? Because for many years in America, three buttons were traditional. The roll turns something traditional into something relaxed but still appropriate. That’s right—lapel roll. Now—the shoulders? Please? Please?”

Hang on to the jacket. And row more. And if people ask you about the buttonhole—you know which one I’m talking about—change the subject.


----------



## Lawschooled

Charles Dana said:


> ...


Thank you very much sir, your comment is pure gold and an excellent check of perspective.
I'll follow your suggestion and wear the jacket (which was a good deal as it shows really zero signs of any wear) in good health and peace of mind.

I appreciate every other comment aswell!


----------



## Truth&Rights

denace_mennis said:


> I'm looking to invest in some repp ties. There seems to be a plethora of variations. What colors/designs are the most versatile? What are some good brands to look for on a budget?


If you are on an extreme budget check thrifts and eBay. You may have to try a few different sellers as things can be a bit hit or miss. What you want to look for is NOS ties or ties that have been well kept and properly cleaned. Not pressed flat to the point where they are shapeless. Don't pay attention to the brand. Look at the description and tag photos. If it's a 100% silk tie, made in the USA, and the correct length and width (e.g. not for a child) you're good to go. There are tons of great ties out there if you are willing to hunt. Many from now departed local men's stores and bigger mainstream store label brands. A few years back I bought a truckload of them for $5-$10 a pop. Small foulard patterns are easier to find than repp stripes but those are out there too. I don't wear ties often anymore but have plenty in reserve if I need them.

RE: versatility - anything in a shade of blue, red, burgundy, etc. are typically going to be the most versatile IME. Greens and yellows are harder to pull off but can be done in the right context with the right combo of jacket and shirt.

One more thing: a lot of vintage and NOS trad type ties have a thinner lining than what you'll see in stores today and they often have no keeper, just a label that doesn't work that well as a keeper. This is not an issue at all if you simply use a tie bar or tie clip. I realize some guys just let both ends of their tie flow free but not everyone likes to do that.


----------



## Billax

Charles Dana said:


> .... Here's what I don't want you to do: I don't want you to walk up to random strangers and say, "Do me a favor, will you? I'm going to turn around and I want you to examine the shoulders of this jacket I'm wearing. What? Oh--the buttonhole on the lapel? This is a 3-roll-2 sack. I said '3-roll-2.' Huh? It's a long story. Nah, you don't want to hear it--trust me, the only people who care have deep psychological problems. So anyway. What I want you to do is focus like a laser beam on the shoulders when I turn around, then tell me if you think they are too wide. As in: Do you think they should be altered? Are they a problem? Do they look bad? Really, really focus and let me know if you see anything wrong, no matter how small. What's that? No, I never button the top one. Well, because it isn't meant to be buttoned. I don't know; it's supposed to make me look relaxed and unconcerned. I know I sound worried-it's complicated. But I look like I'm at ease. Yes, I know that technically the buttonhole doesn't need to be there. It has to do with the lapel roll and Yale University. No, I don't go to Yale. But...the shoulders--could you please tell me what you think of the shoulders? Wha? J. Press. Jacobi. It's a lapel roll thing. So...I'm going to turn around now. No I can't. Well, I could button it, but that would mess up the front of the jacket. Huh? Because for many years in America, three buttons were traditional. The roll turns something traditional into something relaxed but still appropriate. That's right-lapel roll. Now-the shoulders? Please? Please?"
> 
> Hang on to the jacket. And row more. And if people ask you about the buttonhole-you know which one I'm talking about-change the subject.


*Funniest thing I've read in years! Thanks, CD, it made my day.*


----------



## Charles Dana

Billax—Thank you for the compliment!


----------



## GRH

Charles Dana said:


> Lawschooled: I agree with the others who have replied to you.
> 
> The jacket's length is good. The shoulders, though they look fine from the front, do look slightly wide from the back. But only slightly.
> 
> The question now is: What, if anything, should you do with the jacket?
> 
> I say (a) keep it and (b) leave the shoulders alone.
> 
> For purposes of your post, you are standing as still as a rock and are inviting people to scrutinize your garment and to render a critical assessment of it. In real life, however, you are moving about and people are not paying much--if any--attention to what you are wearing. In real life, the jacket's shoulders are merely borderline wide-so borderline that they don't require any alteration (assuming they could be altered, which is uncertain. They certainly could not be altered inexpensively).
> 
> Just keep the jacket and wear it as is.
> 
> Here's what I don't want you to do: I don't want you to walk up to random strangers and say, "Do me a favor, will you? I'm going to turn around and I want you to examine the shoulders of this jacket I'm wearing. What? Oh--the buttonhole on the lapel? This is a 3-roll-2 sack. I said '3-roll-2.' Huh? It's a long story. Nah, you don't want to hear it--trust me, the only people who care have deep psychological problems. So anyway. What I want you to do is focus like a laser beam on the shoulders when I turn around, then tell me if you think they are too wide. As in: Do you think they should be altered? Are they a problem? Do they look bad? Really, really focus and let me know if you see anything wrong, no matter how small. What's that? No, I never button the top one. Well, because it isn't meant to be buttoned. I don't know; it's supposed to make me look relaxed and unconcerned. I know I sound worried-it's complicated. But I look like I'm at ease. Yes, I know that technically the buttonhole doesn't need to be there. It has to do with the lapel roll and Yale University. No, I don't go to Yale. But...the shoulders--could you please tell me what you think of the shoulders? Wha? J. Press. Jacobi. It's a lapel roll thing. So...I'm going to turn around now. No I can't. Well, I could button it, but that would mess up the front of the jacket. Huh? Because for many years in America, three buttons were traditional. The roll turns something traditional into something relaxed but still appropriate. That's right-lapel roll. Now-the shoulders? Please? Please?"
> 
> Hang on to the jacket. And row more. And if people ask you about the buttonhole-you know which one I'm talking about-change the subject.


Brilliant!


----------



## ran23

I saw Merino sweaters half price ($24.99) at H&M. not familiar with their quality.


----------



## alwaystatar

Hiya, 
I don't have any pairs of loafers but found this reiss pair (made in italy) in rust brown (I think) suede. Not sure if should I keep it or not. Only paid £40 for them and they're comfy. But that's irrelevant if I don't get to use them
What do you think? https://www.lloydsolutions.co.uk/lucas-suede-penny-loafers-rust-by-reiss-men-sp-4874.html


----------



## Dingus

Dingus said:


> Does anyone know what this crest / shield symbol represents on these vintage Langrock of Princeton skinny striped ties? It's not Princeton, as far as I can tell (that would be too easy!). Thanks in advance.
> 
> View attachment 19793


Anyone? I still have these emblematic striped Langrock ties and cannot figure out what they stand for. Thank you for any help.


----------



## ran23

I picked up some Nordstrom dress shirts in Egyptian Cotton, can't find them on their web site, not made anymore??


----------



## TropicalCyclone

Why is the LHS so iconic? I seem to see it on every trad site. I personally have a regular lined pair from alden and an unlined one from Brooks Brothers and I love them but no more than other penny loafers than I own. Could a trad fellow explain the love for the LHS to me?


----------



## eagle2250

^^For me.....
it's the aggressively shaped toe box and and the straight uncluttered design of the shoe. Describing the design impact by paraphrasing that old Nancy Sinatra song, "These shoes were made for walking...and that's just what they'll do. One of these days these loafers will walk all over you!" Seriously it's the simple, one purpose design and the long term good looks of the shoe, throughout long terms of service. The look pleases me.


----------



## Truth&Rights

Lucido said:


> Any thoughts on the current Bass Weejuns? I understand the smooth leathers are corrected grain but I was thinking of taking a chance on a pair in suede.


That suede pair doesn't look too bad. If the price is right, maybe worth trying. Just understand they are very cheaply constructed and basically something you toss when the soles are worn unless you want to deal with some kind of cemented option. If you tear out the arch supports and footbed lining in those shoes, I believe the insole that the upper is stitched to is made of pressed cardboard or somesuch. In higher quality shoes, that would be a piece of leather. Also, the standard "D" width is quite narrow IIRC. For a bit more money (but still quite affordable, less than $150 IIRC) I'd probably check the Herring loafers mentioned in the other forum that are probably a bit better made.


----------



## TimF

Truth&Rights said:


> That suede pair doesn't look too bad. If the price is right, maybe worth trying. Just understand they are very cheaply constructed and basically something you toss when the soles are worn unless you want to deal with some kind of cemented option. If you tear out the arch supports and footbed lining in those shoes, I believe the insole that the upper is stitched to is made of pressed cardboard or somesuch. In higher quality shoes, that would be a piece of leather. Also, the standard "D" width is quite narrow IIRC. For a bit more money (but still quite affordable, less than $150 IIRC) I'd probably check the Herring loafers mentioned in the other forum that are probably a bit better made.


The bass weejuns are still genuine moccasins, no? That would mean that the "insole" is just the upper leather wrapped on the bottom, plus any liners.

And just to add context, it is my understanding that the beloved AE does not use leather insoles.


----------



## eagle2250

^^For what it's worth,
my AE's came with leather insoles. :icon_scratch:


----------



## TimF

eagle2250 said:


> ^^For what it's worth,
> my AE's came with leather insoles. :icon_scratch:


So, if we want to get to the bottom of this, we might have to get all facts on the table. I am basing my assertion on a conversation with an SA 2-3 years ago. My recollection is that he told me that the regular line shoes, e.g. Park Av, have "fiberboard" insoles. I actually picked up a lower-line pair of snow boots, with "Poron" insole, so that's that.

I'm curious if their cordovan come with leather insole, thinking about a pair of gunboats.


----------



## Truth&Rights

TimF said:


> So, if we want to get to the bottom of this, we might have to get all facts on the table. I am basing my assertion on a conversation with an SA 2-3 years ago. My recollection is that he told me that the regular line shoes, e.g. Park Av, have "fiberboard" insoles. I actually picked up a lower-line pair of snow boots, with "Poron" insole, so that's that.
> 
> I'm curious if their cordovan come with leather insole, thinking about a pair of gunboats.


I think we're talking about two different types of insoles here. I'm talking about what the upper is stitched to, which is in turn stitched to the welt. For AEs, unless something has changed since I bought my 3 latest pairs this year, the insole would be leather on most of the USA made shoes. I can't speak for the imported lines. Re: Poron that is used as a cushion material that is inserted or glued to the footbed on some (mostly athletic) shoes. It's typically not what the upper is stitched to.

Re: Bass, the cardboard comment is from a pair I examined a few years back at DSW . It's entirely possible they have switched back to genuine mocassin construction for some or all of the shoes. The trouble with Bass and the like is the inconsistency due to outsourced production. If you grabbed 10 random pairs from the last decade I wouldn't be surprised if each was made in a different factory in a different country.


----------



## TimF

Truth&Rights said:


> I think we're talking about two different types of insoles here. I'm talking about what the upper is stitched to, which is in turn stitched to the welt. For AEs, unless something has changed since I bought my 3 latest pairs this year, the insole would be leather on most of the USA made shoes. I can't speak for the imported lines. Re: Poron that is used as a cushion material that is inserted or glued to the footbed on some (mostly athletic) shoes. It's typically not what the upper is stitched to.
> 
> Re: Bass, the cardboard comment is from a pair I examined a few years back at DSW . It's entirely possible they have switched back to genuine mocassin construction for some or all of the shoes. The trouble with Bass and the like is the inconsistency due to outsourced production. If you grabbed 10 random pairs from the last decade I wouldn't be surprised if each was made in a different factory in a different country.


Regarding Bass, I'm not sure when they ever were not genuine moccasin. I don't currently own any, but to my eyes they are true moccasins, not faux mocs of the LHS variety.

RE Allen Edmonds: the Poron insoles are part of a pair of leather chukkas, goodyear welted, made in USA. They were proper insoles, leather-wrapped in fact, not removable inserts. Without actually dissecting, I think it's hard to tell a full leather insole from a leather wrapped cardboard insole. Or leatherboard, or any other close substitute.


----------



## Truth&Rights

TimF said:


> Regarding Bass, I'm not sure when they ever were not genuine moccasin. I don't currently own any, but to my eyes they are true moccasins, not faux mocs of the LHS variety.
> 
> RE Allen Edmonds: the Poron insoles are part of a pair of leather chukkas, goodyear welted, made in USA. They were proper insoles, leather-wrapped in fact, not removable inserts. Without actually dissecting, I think it's hard to tell a full leather insole from a leather wrapped cardboard insole. Or leatherboard, or any other close substitute.


Agree that it's hard to know how a show is constructed without dissecting it or at least ripping up the footbed. RE: the AEs, that Poron could've been a glued down "insole"/footbed. I doubt the welt is stitched directly anything made of poron on that shoe, but again, I agree we'll never know without taking it apart. BTW I have had USA made welted AEs with padded footbeds before as well. I think they were a pair of black Drydens (now discontinued). None of my other AEs ever had a padded footbed like that before. Not sure what it was made of, but it was definitely wrapped in some type of leather or leather-like material.


----------



## TimF

Truth&Rights said:


> I doubt the welt is stitched directly anything made of poron on that shoe, but again, I agree we'll never know without taking it apart.


This part I can answer definitively. The dirty secret of Goodyear welt is that there's a white canvas rib structure that's glued to the underside of the insole. The welt is then stitched on to that canvas rib. So to my mind, there's nothing to prevent gluing that rib to something that's less than genuine leather.

So to reiterate, telling the true composition of AE insoles by touch I think is above the layman's pay grade. It is telling that Alden clearly says their insole is veg tanned leather, yet radio silence from AE.


----------



## Truth&Rights

TimF said:


> This part I can answer definitively. The dirty secret of Goodyear welt is that there's a white canvas rib structure that's glued to the underside of the insole. The welt is then stitched on to that canvas rib. So to my mind, there's nothing to prevent gluing that rib to something that's less than genuine leather.
> 
> So to reiterate, telling the true composition of AE insoles by touch I think is above the layman's pay grade. It is telling that Alden clearly says their insole is veg tanned leather, yet radio silence from AE.


IIRC, AE used to have shoes on display at their stores that were cut in half. That would answer the question I think, no matter what AE says or will not say...

RE: canvas or fabric at the bottom of the shoe to which the welt is stitched, MIE Doc Martens, Solovair, Gripfast, etc. are made that way. You can even see it through the translucent air cushion soles on many of those.


----------



## Fading Fast

Watching "The Double Man" with Yul Brynner and Britt Ekland (holy schmoly) and Brynner is wearing this sport coat ⇩ 









If you enlarge it a bit, you can see the pattern better - what is that pattern called? I can think of several of our member who will know it, but my money says Matt S comes in first (I don't know it - knew it at some point, but forgot - so it's a real question)? Thank you

Brynner also wears this ⇩ polo coat (couldn't find a better still, sorry) which is a pretty good one but it's missing turn-back cuffs.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Watching "The Double Man" with Yul Brynner and Britt Ekland (holy schmoly) and Brynner is wearing this sport coat ⇩
> View attachment 22429
> 
> 
> If you enlarge it a bit, you can see the pattern better - what is that pattern called? I can think of several of our member who will know it, but my money says Matt S comes in first (I don't know it - knew it at some point, but forgot - so it's a real question)? Thank you
> 
> Brynner also wears this ⇩ polo coat (couldn't find a better still, sorry) which is a pretty good one but it's missing turn-back cuffs.
> View attachment 22430


I believe I've heard that fabric described as crowsfoot.


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## denace_mennis

I’m getting these trousers in later today. I was wondering if you think a navy blazer would work with it. I initially thought so. However, I’m worried the blue in the trousers won’t work well with the navy.
Thank you,
Dennis


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## eagle2250

Given the coloration of the patterning of the cloth from which the trousers are made, I suspect those trousers will work acceptably well with a navy blazer. Go forth and prosper!


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## sop189

Got this navy southwick 3/2 roll blazer for super cheap on ebay and I'm looking for alteration advice. The shoulders and chest seem to fit well and the sleeves need shortening, I've rolled them up in the pictures. Also seems like the waist needs brought in, I'm not going for an overly slim fit but there's a lot of extra room there. The jacket looks slightly long but based on what I've read it is still acceptable, is this correct?


















Also have a set of brass buttons I will have put on once I have the jacket fitting properly. I appreciate all advice on this, I've never gotten a jacket tailored before so I want to make sure I have it done correctly.


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## TropicalCyclone

If you are getting the waist taken in, look into slimming the sleeves as well. Have your tailor pin the sleeves when the waist is pinned and go with whichever looks more natural. This is important because once the waist is taken in the way that the jacket drapes will change and you want the sleeves to drape the same way. You might want to shorten the jacket a 2-3 inches, I personally like mine ending where my knuckles are. Would not recommend anything more than 3 because that would significantly alter the balance of the jacket. I’m in the early 20s, so my taste lean slimmer than most here. Congrats on your thrift though, I love me southwick blazer and I’m sure you will too.


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## sop189

TropicalCyclone said:


> If you are getting the waist taken in, look into slimming the sleeves as well. Have your tailor pin the sleeves when the waist is pinned and go with whichever looks more natural. This is important because once the waist is taken in the way that the jacket drapes will change and you want the sleeves to drape the same way. You might want to shorten the jacket a 2-3 inches, I personally like mine ending where my knuckles are. Would not recommend anything more than 3 because that would significantly alter the balance of the jacket. I'm in the early 20s, so my taste lean slimmer than most here. Congrats on your thrift though, I love me southwick blazer and I'm sure you will too.


I appreciate the response, I'm actually around the same age but I already own a slim-fitting chino blazer so for this I'm looking to change it up a bit. I'm assuming this varies a lot but do you have a ballpark of what all of that would cost?


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## TropicalCyclone

It cost me about 55(slimming & shortening sleeves and taking in waist). But I go there really often and I’m in a small town, I would not pay more than 100 though. I’m not talking about GQ metrosexual slim but more like a nice warm hug. I was a huge fan of the slim painted on look freshman year, probably because I hated the loose blazers that I would “grow into” that I had to wear everyday in high school. However, I have now come full circle and am in favor of a fit that hints at my body without giving away my religion or place of birth.


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## sop189

TropicalCyclone said:


> It cost me about 55(slimming & shortening sleeves and taking in waist). But I go there really often and I'm in a small town, I would not pay more than 100 though. I'm not talking about GQ metrosexual slim but more like a nice warm hug. I was a huge fan of the slim painted on look freshman year, probably because I hated the loose blazers that I would "grow into" that I had to wear everyday in high school. However, I have now come full circle and am in favor of a fit that hints at my body without giving away my religion or place of birth.


Do you think it would be worth to have all that done to this blazer or would it be better to try and find one that fits better to begin with? I paid $20 for the blazer


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## Charles Dana

sop189 said:


> Do you think it would be worth to have all that done to this blazer or would it be better to try and find one that fits better to begin with? I paid $20 for the blazer


Keep the blazer and have the sleeves shortened and the waist taken in. You don't need to have the sleeves tapered. It woudn't be wrong to have them tapered, but it's far from necessary.

The jacket does look a little long. However, as far as length is concerned, keep the following points in mind:

a. I respectfully disagree wih TropicalCyclone; no jacket can be shortened "2 to 3 inches" with any success. It can be agreeably shortened about 1 inch at the most.

b. I can't tell exactly how much excess length the jacket has because the photos you posted are not full-body images. I can't see how long your legs are relative to your torso.

c. My preliminary feeling is that the jacket, while longer than optimal, is probably not long enough to worry about or to alter.

d. When you are wearing the jacket while going about your day, nobody will notice the length unless you stand still and ask them to tell you if the jacket is too long.

e. When you are sitting on somebody's sofa or on a chair in a restaurant, the chances are reasonably good that the length of the jacket will not cause your companions any lasting psychological harm.


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## sop189

Charles Dana said:


> Keep the blazer and have the sleeves shortened and the waist taken in. You don't need to have the sleeves tapered. It woudn't be wrong to have them tapered, but it's far from necessary.
> 
> The jacket does look a little long. However, as far as length is concerned, keep the following points in mind:
> 
> a. I respectfully disagree wih TropicalCyclone; no jacket can be shortened "2 to 3 inches" with any success. It can be agreeably shortened about 1 inch at the most.
> 
> b. I can't tell exactly how much excess length the jacket has because the photos you posted are not full-body images. I can't see how long your legs are relative to your torso.
> 
> c. My preliminary feeling is that the jacket, while longer than optimal, is probably not long enough to worry about or to alter.
> 
> d. When you are wearing the jacket while going about your day, nobody will notice the length unless you stand still and ask them to tell you if the jacket is too long.
> 
> e. When you are sitting on somebody's sofa or on a chair in a restaurant, the chances are reasonably good that the length of the jacket will not cause any lasting psychological harm to your companions.


I think I have somewhat long lengs relative to my torso


----------



## Charles Dana

Thanks for the additional photo. The jacket's an inch too long, but that's no deal-breaker in my opinion because of your relatively long legs. If it bothers you, let go of the jacket, but it wouldn't bother me.


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## denace_mennis

Does this suit fit me?
I thrifted this Roger & Pete suit last summer for $2 and then forgot about it. The trousers fit well (although I'll need to get them hemmed and tapered a bit) however I'm worried the jacket is too big.
I rolled up the sleeves, but the overall length seems too long. There's room for it to be taken in. Would taking it in at the waist help reduce the overall length?
It fits comfortably in the chest and shoulders.








Thank you,
Dennis

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Charles Dana

Denace Mennis:

The jacket might be an inch longer than it needs to be, but does that make it "too long"? I don't think so. The length is long by today's standards yet extremely close to being just right by yesteryear's more reasonable standards. The waist and hips of the jacket need to be taken in; however, that alteration won't change its length. No matter, since the length looks acceptable.

(By the way, the name of the venerable--but sadly defunct--clothier is "Rogers Peet." Roger & Pete are the guys who own the auto body shop. You know which one I mean? It's between Dick's Sporting Goods and Lowe's. That one.)


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> Denace Mennis:
> 
> The jacket might be an inch longer than it needs to be, but does that make it "too long"? I don't think so. The length is long by today's standards yet extremely close to being just right by yesteryear's more reasonable standards. The waist and hips of the jacket need to be taken in; however, that alteration won't change its length. No matter, since the length looks acceptable.
> 
> (By the way, the name of the venerable--but sadly defunct--clothier is "Rogers Peet." Roger & Pete are the guys who own the auto body shop. You know which one I mean? It's between Dick's Sporting Goods and Lowe's. That one.)


I could try to rearrange the words or say it in a slightly different manner to make myself appear smart and thoughtful, but Charles Dana's comments ⇧ are all spot on and I have nothing of value to add to them. It's a nice suit, follow CD's advice on altering it and enjoy its classic length.


----------



## denace_mennis

Thank you, Charles and Fading Fast. After looking at my picture, I agree that although it looks long for many of the more modern suits I see, it still looks nice (and IMO more balanced).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ran23

I have a few blazers, including a tan wool Stanley Blacker with brass buttons. (also have a Camel Hair Nordstrom with leather buttons). Thinking of a medium brown horn or something along that line to replace the brass on the tan blazer. ideas?? I did find tan leather buttons, slightly darker than the jacket. The jacket has not texture (tweed, etc).


----------



## Billax

As you no doubt know, Brass Buttons are a classic identifier of a Blazer. Converting a 3 roll 2 Brass button Blazer into a 3 roll 2 sport coat is a piece of cake! You've got it just about perfect with your braided leather buttons. The only quibble some might have with this transformation is that Brass Buttons, on a untextured fabric, are the PERFECT way to make an untextured jacket into a Blazer that "pops."


----------



## ran23

After losing tons of weight, I ended up with 4 brass button blazers, overzealous. The Brown may get donated, this tan is screaming to stay with an upgrade. Maybe turn this into a Fall jacket with the tan leather. thanks


----------



## gr8w8er

Is it possible to get a MTM/Bespoke sports coat similar to what is produced by Southwick (3/2 roll)?


----------



## FiscalDean

gr8w8er said:


> Is it possible to get a MTM/Bespoke sports coat similar to what is produced by Southwick (3/2 roll)?


Southwick offers a MTM service, this would likely be your best option. Another option would be English American Tailors. They don't produce an exact copy but it is still a decent rendition.

https://www.southwick.com/ Their web site has a dealer directory

https://englishamericanco.com/ The web site has contact information; you could call to find a dealer near you.


----------



## ran23

I just picked up a Nordstrom l/s casual shirt. great fit! It is marked Class A 55% cotton, 45% poly It is a tailored cut on my 5-7, 160 lbs, 34"waist, 38-s jacket frame. I wish shirts were marked, if they are some kind of trim cut.


----------



## ran23

Strange. Banana Republic Cotton/Linen jacket and the size tag is 38 R/S It was such a trim cut, didn't fit me. 38 R/S ??


----------



## Fading Fast

ran23 said:


> Strange. Banana Republic Cotton/Linen jacket and the size tag is 38 R/S It was such a trim cut, didn't fit me. 38 R/S ??


Just a guess - could "R/S" stand for Regular / Slim versus regular "classic" cut. So the "S" is not for short (to describe the jacket's length) but for the general cut of the sport coat. Again, just a guess.


----------



## eagle2250

^^"could R/S stand for regular/slim?" A guess perhaps, but makes sense, for sure!


----------



## ran23

The length was 29.5" which is more like Short. I couldn't even button it. they was a tailored tag in it. (It's up for sale in my friends store right now)


----------



## sop189

Soon I am getting my first opportunity as an undergrad to shadow a psychiatrist, the expected attire is a shirt and tie but no jacket. What would be the best shoes to wear with this? All I currently have are penny loafers but I have no problem buying something else if those are too casual because I will likely be wearing this same uniform frequently over the next many years.


----------



## Oldsport

Wear your Penny Loafers, they are perfect. Take whatever you were going to spend on new shoes and buy beer.


----------



## TDWat

Penny loafers are fine provided they aren't super casual (i.e., no boat shoes with a loafer top), or if you want to get something different a blucher would be a good choice.

Don't lose any sleep over the dress code, though. Having done undergrad internships not too many years ago, I can personally attest to the fact that if you've learned anything from online clothing forums you'll likely be far better dressed than your fellow interns.


----------



## Charles Dana

sop189 said:


> Soon I am getting my first opportunity as an undergrad to shadow a psychiatrist.


How appropriate that you'll be shadowing a psychiatrist. I guess you really will find out what evil lurks in the hearts of men.


----------



## HanEyeAm

sop189 said:


> Soon I am getting my first opportunity as an undergrad to shadow a psychiatrist, the expected attire is a shirt and tie but no jacket. What would be the best shoes to wear with this? All I currently have are penny loafers but I have no problem buying something else if those are too casual because I will likely be wearing this same uniform frequently over the next many years.


Country and inpatient hospital or outpatient clinic, young man?

General comment, most the MDs I work with in a hospital rehab unit (and the psychiatrists) in the USA wear soft-soled, relatively affordable shoes (eg, Rockport is not uncommon. My Chief and I both wear Ecco, typically. Not amazing quality, but professional, comfortable on a hard hospital floor, and disposable if Bad Things happen to your shoes (and they do sometimes). The occasional bloke wearing hard soled, click clack shoes are almost always trainees!


----------



## sop189

HanEyeAm said:


> Country and inpatient hospital or outpatient clinic, young man?
> 
> General comment, most the MDs I work with in a hospital rehab unit (and the psychiatrists) in the USA wear soft-soled, relatively affordable shoes (eg, Rockport is not uncommon. My Chief and I both wear Ecco, typically. Not amazing quality, but professional, comfortable on a hard hospital floor, and disposable if Bad Things happen to your shoes (and they do sometimes). The occasional bloke wearing hard soled, click clack shoes are almost always trainees!


Outpatient clinic for now but hopefully will have hospital opportunities in the future. Thanks for that input, I might have to pick up a pair of those.


----------



## WorkingTrad

I have been hunting for a vintage (read not brand new) the quintessential trad blazer; 3/2, sack, hook vent, etc., But have been coming up short. It's been hard to find this in a size that does or can be made to fit me. I need a 38 or 39 short. Last week I found a navy blazer that is decidely not the trad ideal. The thing is that it fits, and I really like it, and it does have at least one trad quality. It's a sack cut blazer. But it's two button and ventless, and it has some shoulder padding. I want to know first of all how far off base it is in your collective opinion. If I wear it with cuffed khakis, a repp tie, an ocb, and weejuns will it just look bad? Confused? Even more though, I want your helping determining it's origins. It has no labels! The only clue is that the buttons say Faconnable. Was it made by them? Pictures to follow.


----------



## WorkingTrad

WorkingTrad said:


> I have been hunting for a vintage (read not brand new) the quintessential trad blazer; 3/2, sack, hook vent, etc., But have been coming up short. It's been hard to find this in a size that does or can be made to fit me. I need a 38 or 39 short. Last week I found a navy blazer that is decidely not the trad ideal. The thing is that it fits, and I really like it, and it does have at least one trad quality. It's a sack cut blazer. But it's two button and ventless, and it has some shoulder padding. I want to know first of all how far off base it is in your collective opinion. If I wear it with cuffed khakis, a repp tie, an ocb, and weejuns will it just look bad? Confused? Even more though, I want your helping determining it's origins. It has no labels! The only clue is that the buttons say Faconnable. Was it made by them? Pictures to follow.


----------



## Charles Dana

WorkingTrad said:


> Last week I found a navy blazer that is decidely not the trad ideal.


It doesn't matter. Don't take this "Trad" stuff so seriously.



> The thing is that it fits, and I really like it...."


That's what matters.



> But it's two button and ventless, and it has some shoulder padding.


Too much shoulder padding looks bad. "Some" shoulder padding is OK. Post a photo of you wearing the blazer and I'll tell you how I think the shoulders look on you.



> I want to know first of all how far off base it is in your collective opinion.


Don't worry about the "base." The "base" is an illusion. A garment either looks good on you, or it doesn't. The baseline begins and ends with you.



> If I wear it with cuffed khakis, a repp tie, an ocb, and weejuns will it just look bad?


Not if it fits you, assuming the shoulders are not heavily padded. What concerns me is that the lapels may proclaim "1990s!!" I won't know for sure until I see a photo of you wearing the jacket.



> Even more though, I want your helping determining it's origins. It has no labels! The only clue is that the buttons say Faconnable. Was it made by them? Pictures to follow.


Unless somebody changed the buttons, it's a Faconnable. The San Francisco Nordstrom used to have a Faconnable boutique within its casual menswear department. The clothes seemed to be of high quality (though I didn't care for the logo that was on many of the shirts).

It's good that you are searching for a blazer that ticks all of the "Trad" boxes. But don't let that quest cause you to turn your back on a tasteful item that fits you, should you stumble upon one in the meantime. Dressing well is not a final exam. It's not even a mid-term. Or even a pop quiz. Relax.


----------



## WorkingTrad

Charles, 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not too worried about ticking boxes, I do like the blazer, and am probably going to wear it. I am just curious about whether others make similar exceptions. And I also sort of want to know where a blazer like this fits.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

WorkingTrad said:


> I have been hunting for a vintage (read not brand new) the quintessential trad blazer; 3/2, sack, hook vent, etc., But have been coming up short. It's been hard to find this in a size that does or can be made to fit me. I need a 38 or 39 short. Last week I found a navy blazer that is decidely not the trad ideal. The thing is that it fits, and I really like it, and it does have at least one trad quality. It's a sack cut blazer. But it's two button and ventless, and it has some shoulder padding. I want to know first of all how far off base it is in your collective opinion. If I wear it with cuffed khakis, a repp tie, an ocb, and weejuns will it just look bad? Confused? Even more though, I want your helping determining it's origins. It has no labels! The only clue is that the buttons say Faconnable. Was it made by them? Pictures to follow.


The Hunter & Coggins blazers are a solid deal. They are made in the USA, are a nice two button with a hook vent, and hold up well. I am not familiar with the Facconable blazer, but as long as it's comfortable and navy you are safe IMO.


----------



## HanEyeAm

sop189 said:


> Outpatient clinic for now but hopefully will have hospital opportunities in the future. Thanks for that input, I might have to pick up a pair of those.


Best wishes for satisfying training!


----------



## August West

TKI67 said:


> The Hunter & Coggins blazers are a solid deal. They are made in the USA, are a nice two button with a hook vent, and hold up well. I am not familiar with the Facconable blazer, but as long as it's comfortable and navy you are safe IMO.


How are the shoulders in real life? The photos of the Hardwick blazers on the website are not promising whatsoever.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

August West said:


> How are the shoulders in real life? The photos of the Hardwick blazers on the website are not promising whatsoever.


Not as soft and unpadded as my blazers in school in the mid1960s but not any thicker than most contemporary suits from J Press. I give them a B. BTW, mine is not the one you get to when you click the Hardwick button. It is the button at the top. Less pricey than Hardwick so I was more willing to risk it on a hopsack. For a doeskin blazer I'll go to O'Connell's.


----------



## Peak and Pine

From Charles Dana: "... the lapels may proclaim "1990s!!" I won't know for sure until I see a photo of you wearing the jacket." 



Should the OP not cave in and do this, could you be so kind as to describe in writing precisely what a 90s lapel is? Preferably to the tune of something by Imagine Dragons. Thank ye.


----------



## Charles Dana

Peak and Pine said:


> From Charles Dana: "... the lapels may proclaim "1990s!!" I won't know for sure until I see a photo of you wearing the jacket." Should the OP not cave in and do this, could you be so kind as to describe in writing precisely what a 90s lapel is? Preferably to the tune of something by Imagine Dragons. Thank ye.


Imagine Dragons. Pretty good. I'll get back to you....


----------



## Charles Dana

Peak and Pine said:


> [C]ould you be so kind as to describe in writing precisely what a 90s lapel is? Preferably to the tune of something by Imagine Dragons. Thank ye.


Okay.

Here we go (assuming I can read what I scribbled on these Starbuck's napkins):

NOTCHES
(Sung to the tune of "Demons," by Imagine Dragons)

If the coat's not Trad
And you're feeling bad;
If it has no vent
And that makes you sad;

If it's not 3/2;
If it's just a 2;
And you have your doubts
And you're kinda blue--

No need to be downcast
Stop living in the past.
Carve out a brand-new course.
Push on with pep and force.

Look for your Holy Grail
But it's okay to fail.
Don't be afraid of darts
But run like hell from farts.

I'll be honest here.
Listen without fear.
Each notch is low and wide
Each notch is low and wide.
That's what I think.
Don't lose your pride.
Each notch is low and wide.
Each notch is low and wide.

I see angles steep.
Have yourself a peep.
Each gorge has a seam
Pointing at your feet.

The lapels you've there
Many men did wear
--Nineteen-ninety-four--
Eh, they still look fair.

You asked me for my view
And I won't...fool you.
It's not a Tradly coat,
But it still gets my vote.

Look for your Holy Grail
But it's okay to fail.
Don't be afraid of darts
But run like hell from farts.

I'll be honest here.
Listen without fear.
Each notch is low and wide.
Each notch is low and wide.
That's what I think.
Don't lose your pride.
Each notch is low and wide.
Each notch is low and wide.

You say the jacket fits.
That pleases me to bits.
The gorge, it matters not.
I like the coat you bought.

Don't you give up the quest
To be Ivy-League dressed.
Don't parade around bare.
The clothes, they are out there.

I'll be honest here.
Listen without fear.
Each notch is low and wide.
Each notch is low and wide.
That's what I think.
Don't lose your pride.
Each notch is low and wide.
Each notch is low and wide.

But hey, be your own man.
Do the best that you can!

******

(If this were a discussion forum about Mexican food, I'd do a parody called "Nachos.")

The lapels in question are also similar to the ones on a Daniel Hechter suit I bought in 1985. The lapels seem to show a European influence.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Charles Dana said:


> Okay.
> 
> Here we go (assuming I can read what I scribbled on these Starbuck's napkins):
> 
> NOTCHES
> (Sung to the tune of "Demons," by Imagine Dragons)
> 
> If the coat's not Trad
> And you're feeling bad;
> If it has no vent
> And that makes you sad;
> 
> If it's not 3/2;
> If it's just a 2;
> And you have your doubts
> And you're kinda blue--
> 
> No need to be downcast
> Stop living in the past.
> Carve out a brand-new course.
> Push on with pep and force.
> 
> Look for your Holy Grail
> But it's okay to fail.
> Don't be afraid of darts
> But run like hell from farts.
> 
> I'll be honest here.
> Listen without fear.
> Each notch is low and wide
> Each notch is low and wide.
> That's what I think.
> Don't lose your pride.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> 
> I see angles steep.
> Have yourself a peep.
> Each gorge has a seam
> Pointing at your feet.
> 
> The lapels you've there
> Many men did wear
> --Nineteen-ninety-four--
> Eh, they still look fair.
> 
> You asked me for my view
> And I won't...fool you.
> It's not a Tradly coat,
> But it still gets my vote.
> 
> Look for your Holy Grail
> But it's okay to fail.
> Don't be afraid of darts
> But run like hell from farts.
> 
> I'll be honest here.
> Listen without fear.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> That's what I think.
> Don't lose your pride.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> 
> You say the jacket fits.
> That pleases me to bits.
> The gorge, it matters not.
> I like the coat you bought.
> 
> Don't you give up the quest
> To be Ivy-League dressed.
> Don't parade around bare.
> The clothes, they are out there.
> 
> I'll be honest here.
> Listen without fear.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> That's what I think.
> Don't lose your pride.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> Each notch is low and wide.
> 
> But hey, be your own man.
> Do the best that you can!
> 
> ******
> 
> (If this were a discussion forum about Mexican food, I'd do a parody called "Nachos.")
> 
> The lapels in question are also similar to the ones on a Daniel Hechter suit I bought in 1985. The lapels seem to show a European influence.


Wow. Color me impressed. (Tho I was kinda hoping you'd do "Thunder". God, I love the Dragons.) You have a knack for this, Charles, though I hate most of the toons you pick, especially show tunes. (I was once a show tune guy, having in my possession a ticket stub entitled "Dolly, a damn exasperating woman", the original title to Hello Dolly, saw it in try-out/rehearsal and they hadn't printed corrected tickets yet.)

Never thought of low gorge as particularly belonging to the 90s per se, more like 90s Italian(ish), Armani, Zileri, Zegna, etc. I hate low gorge. I liked the 90s tho, people called me _older_ in the 90s, nowadays they leave off the _er. _Thank ye for your musical reply.


----------



## Charles Dana

Peak and Pine said:


> Wow. Color me impressed. (Tho I was kinda hoping you'd do "Thunder". God, I love the Dragons.)


Thank you! And if you had requested "Thunder," I would have obliged. I'll keep that one in mind for next time.



> I hate most of the toons you pick, especially show tunes.


Well, fair enough. There's a lot of music out there, covering all different tastes.



> (I was once a show tune guy, having in my possession a ticket stub entitled "Dolly, a damn exasperating woman", the original title to Hello Dolly, saw it in try-out/rehearsal and they hadn't printed corrected tickets yet.)


:lol:



> Never thought of low gorge as particularly belonging to the 90s per se, more like 90s Italian(ish), Armani, Zileri, Zegna, etc.


Yes, I think you're correct. It's just that those low gorges, though not universal, tended to stand out.



> Thank ye for your musical reply.


You're welcome!


----------



## WorkingTrad

OP here, glad I asked the question since it elicited this lively reply! And I've learned a little to boot. I will post a picture soon. I would have already but I just moved today and haven't unpacked. Fwiw, the gorges don't seem any lower or larger than any of the other jackets I have, including late 60s bb blazers. Interested to see what you make of it.


----------



## WorkingTrad

So, looking at it on me again, I'm a lot less enthused about this blazer. The things I do like about it are elements that I am often unsatisfied in other jackets in my body. I really like the shoulders, mine are narrow and sloping, so this padding looks good , I think. I also like the length and the fit across my chest and stomach. The sleeves are fine, maybe a hair shorter than ideal, but the button stance stands out as very odd. I think these high close buttons are making the blazer seem much smaller than it actually is. Looking for your feedback.


----------



## Charles Dana

The good news: The gorge is not low, as I had initially feared (the notch still has a wide angle, but not deal-breaker wide).

The bad news: Based on that one photo of you wearing the blazer, I think it looks a bit too short. That kills the deal. I'd know for sure if the jacket is too short if I could see a full-length shot of you with the jacket buttoned. In view of the limited evidence, though, I'd say it's too short for you to keep.

Or maybe your trousers are too low, giving the illusion of a short jacket. Pull them up and take a full-length photo, with the blazer buttoned. The button stance seems OK, but it's hard to tell with the jacket unbuttoned.


----------



## WorkingTrad

Charles Dana said:


> The good news: The gorge is not low, as I had initially feared (the notch still has a wide angle, but not deal-breaker wide).
> 
> The bad news: Based on that one photo of you wearing the blazer, I think it looks a bit too short. That kills the deal. I'd know for sure if the jacket is too short if I could see a full-length shot of you with the jacket buttoned. In view of the limited evidence, though, I'd say it's too short for you to keep.
> 
> Or maybe your trousers are too low, giving the illusion of a short jacket. Pull them up and take a full-length photo, with the blazer buttoned. The button stance seems OK, but it's hard to tell with the jacket unbuttoned.


----------



## WorkingTrad

It is too short. You've said what I knew and didn't want to hear. Thanks, Sam.


----------



## Charles Dana

OK. You're welcome. Sorry it didn't work out for you.


----------



## denace_mennis

I'm about to pull the trigger on these:








I was wondering if they are too formal for chinos and how (if they do at all) fit into the trad "canon".


----------



## Peak and Pine

denace_mennis said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering if they are too formal for chinos and how (if they do at all) fit into the trad "canon".


Nay. Not too formal. Saddle shoes, very prep. Monochromatic not so common tho. Those look really swell. Leather sole?


----------



## denace_mennis

Peak and Pine, thanks! They were made by Allen Edmonds for Brooks Brothers and seem to have the combination tap sole that appear on other shoes that they make for B.B. However, I’ve seen other pictures and they have all leather soles. I should know for sure when they arrive lol.


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## eagle2250

^^I suspect those new kicks are going to work very well, worn with your chinos! Might we anticipate a photo of them being worn, once UPS drops them on your front porch?


----------



## denace_mennis

Eagle, yes. Unfortunately they won’t arrive until Thursday according to the AE salesman, but they will certainly make appearances on this forum almost immediately after they arrive. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TropicalCyclone

I’m looking to replace my frayed laces on my shoes. Any recommendations for waxed, round laces?


----------



## Opposite Saybrook

TropicalCyclone said:


> I'm looking to replace my frayed laces on my shoes. Any recommendations for waxed, round laces?


Your local cobbler. Get to know him (her?), too, while you're there.


----------



## Fading Fast

TropicalCyclone said:


> I'm looking to replace my frayed laces on my shoes. Any recommendations for waxed, round laces?


https://shoelacesexpress.com/menudressshoelacesindex.asp


----------



## GRH

Fading Fast said:


> https://shoelacesexpress.com/menudressshoelacesindex.asp


Thanks for Shoelaces Express suggestion. I'll report back on service, quality, "user experience," etc.


----------



## TropicalCyclone

Charles Dana said:


> The good news: The gorge is not low, as I had initially feared (the notch still has a wide angle, but not deal-breaker wide).
> 
> The bad news: Based on that one photo of you wearing the blazer, I think it looks a bit too short. That kills the deal. I'd know for sure if the jacket is too short if I could see a full-length shot of you with the jacket buttoned. In view of the limited evidence, though, I'd say it's too short for you to keep.
> 
> Or maybe your trousers are too low, giving the illusion of a short jacket. Pull them up and take a full-length photo, with the blazer buttoned. The button stance seems OK, but it's hard to tell with the jacket unbuttoned.


On a similar note, what constitutes a low gorge? Would a gorge that is at the same level as the button down button on a collar be considered low?


----------



## Charles Dana

TropicalCyclone said:


> On a similar note, what constitutes a low gorge? Would a gorge that is at the same level as the button down button on a collar be considered low?


I don't think "low gorge" has a tidy, objective definition. "Low" is a matter of taste.

If the points of a buttondown shirt are 3.25 inches long, and the gorge is at the same level of the collar buttons, then to me the gorge is too low. I think the notch should be a bit higher than the collar buttons.

Google "Billax" and study the many images that you'll find. His jackets always show what I feel is a gorge that sits just where it ought to.


----------



## Lawschooled

Did by any chance someone acquire the light grey shaggy dog sweater from J. Press and would be willing to post a photo under real world lighting conditions? https://jpressonline.com/collections/sweaters/products/shaggy-dog-eesit?variant=482078064644
I'm debating on buying it, but I'm not sure if it's too lightly colored.


----------



## orange fury

Recommendations for fair isle socks? Decided I want a few pairs this winter, and as close as I’ve ever gotten is multicolored argyle...


----------



## ran23

I remember TieBar has them, $8.00.


----------



## New Old Stock

orange fury said:


> Recommendations for fair isle socks? Decided I want a few pairs this winter, and as close as I've ever gotten is multicolored argyle...


To go along with the Camp Mocs;
https://www.rancourtandcompany.com/accessories/socks/fair-isle-cashmere-sock.html


----------



## WorkingTrad

I picked upna couple of shirts from the local thrift including one that I really love but am a bit confused about. The weave feels very silky and slick, unlike my other Oxford cloth shirts. What kind ofaterial is this? Is this just how JPress oxford cloth shirts feel? This is my first. Also the buttons may offer a clue to era of manufactire. They have three thread holes, which I've never seen before. Any info would be appreciated.


----------



## blue suede shoes

TropicalCyclone said:


> I'm looking to replace my frayed laces on my shoes. Any recommendations for waxed, round laces?


https://www.peasandcornco.com/shoelaces.asp

This website has a good selection. I purchased from them a number of years ago; never had any problems.


----------



## Charles Dana

Working Trad: Your J.Press shirt appears to have a Royal Oxford weave rather than a standard Oxford weave. A Royal Oxford weave uses finer threads and produces a silkier fabric than the regular Oxford weave. 

Some shirt makers use buttons that have just three holes. The defunct Hathaway Shirt Company, which was located in Maine, was famous for using three-hole buttons. (The company was also famous for the Hathaway Shirt Man who appeared in its advertisements. He wore an eyepatch over his right eye. He didn't need the patch; it was just a marketing gimmick--and a very successful one at that.)


----------



## FiscalDean

Agree, that is a Royal Oxford cloth.


----------



## DavidW

FiscalDean said:


> Agree, that is a Royal Oxford cloth.


Hathaway made J Press shirts for some time, the best in my opinion. Those are Hathaway buttons, and the "Single Needle Tailoring" label is the same as on my J Press shirts which I know were made by Hathaway.


----------



## Argyll N. Sutherland

Hi! I've lost some weight lately and need to get a suit for a friend's wedding. I don't think I can count on finding a score thrift-wise in time, so I am seeking some advice. What's the most common, closest to trad suit color/pattern/etc. I should look for new? ideally I'd be able to find a 3/2 unstructured situation, but odds aren't looking good. Basic grey?


----------



## Charles Dana

Argyll N. Sutherland said:


> Hi! I've lost some weight lately and need to get a suit for a friend's wedding. I don't think I can count on finding a score thrift-wise in time, so I am seeking some advice. What's the most common, closest to trad suit color/pattern/etc. I should look for new? ideally I'd be able to find a 3/2 unstructured situation, but odds aren't looking good. Basic grey?


A wedding? Get a solid charcoal grey or solid navy. If you want the jacket to have a 3-roll-2 configuration, and due to time constraints you need something ready-made, look to J. Press or O'Connell's. ("Trad" suit jackets and sport coats are not "unstructured." They have "natural" shoulders, but that's not the same thing as "unstructured.")


----------



## Argyll N. Sutherland

Charles Dana said:


> A wedding? Get a solid charcoal grey or solid navy. If you want the jacket to have a 3-roll-2 configuration, and due to time constraints you need something ready-made, look to J. Press or O'Connell's. ("Trad" suit jackets and sport coats are not "unstructured." They have "natural" shoulders, but that's not the same thing as "unstructured.")


Thanks! I always wondered about the shoulders thing.


----------



## denace_mennis

Hello,
I am attending a wedding this weekend. The “Attire is cocktail attire, semi-formal, or dressy casual. Basically, leave your tux at home but don't wear jeans either.”
What would be your suggestions? I recently received my Rogers Peet back from alterations. It’s a lighter grey/olive color. I was originally planning on wearing that. However, after seeing “dressy casual”, I’m contemplating charcoal flannels and my blazer (with silver buttons).
I figure either would be fine, but just want to stick out the least.
Thanks,
Dennis


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----------



## Vecchio Vespa

denace_mennis said:


> Hello,
> I am attending a wedding this weekend. The "Attire is cocktail attire, semi-formal, or dressy casual. Basically, leave your tux at home but don't wear jeans either."
> What would be your suggestions? I recently received my Rogers Peet back from alterations. It's a lighter grey/olive color. I was originally planning on wearing that. However, after seeing "dressy casual", I'm contemplating charcoal flannels and my blazer (with silver buttons).
> I figure either would be fine, but just want to stick out the least.
> Thanks,
> Dennis
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is a wide range of suggested modes of dress, compounded by the fact that to an older trad semiformal means black tie. Of your two proffered choices I like the blazer and charcoal. Picking from my closet, I'd wear a navy suit with black bit loafers, a white shirt, and a bright bow tie.


----------



## New Old Stock

denace_mennis said:


> Hello,
> I am attending a wedding this weekend. The "Attire is cocktail attire, semi-formal, or dressy casual. Basically, leave your tux at home but don't wear jeans either."


It doesn't actually say that on the invitation does it?! 
I suggest you wear 'cocktail attire' above the waist, 'semi-formal' trousers, & 'dressy casual' footwear. I kid, of course. 
Go with a solid suit, black oxfords & a knit tie. Some people are going to misinterpret the dress code, better to be "overdressed" IMO.


----------



## FLMike

TKI67 said:


> That is a wide range of suggested modes of dress, compounded by the fact that to an older trad semiformal means black tie.


Except that they specifically said, "Leave your tux at home...."


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

FLMike said:


> Except that they specifically said, "Leave your tux at home...."


I read that and just found it odd. It struck me as sort of like "business dress; no suits or ties" or "Nantucket theme party; no reds or GTH pants." I have to say that IMHO we are in an era where descriptions of modes of dress are less precise than they used to be. In Austin "business casual" could range from starched khakis, polished loafers, a starched button down, and a blazer to jeans, nice leather flip flops or Birks, and a polo, or possibly even a very nice T shirt, this being a community where there are actually professional level people who go to work in shorts and T shirts! The invitation provides plenty of latitude and clearly excludes black tie. Sounds like a fun event that will have a wide array of dressing styles.


----------



## denace_mennis

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
It will certainly be a fun wedding. I’m inclined to go the blazer and flannels route. However if the rest of my family dresses nicer, I’ll take my cues from them.

Dennis


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----------



## lemmy

If you’re looking for a casual trad suit, are darts a complete dealbreaker? I bought a three-piece brown corduroy suit from Brooks Own Make line, and it arrived today with details that didn’t match the description.

The pictures showed a dartless 3/2 jacket and the product description said a 2 button, dartless, natural shoulder, and hook center vent. It arrived with 2 buttons, darts, natural shoulders, and a hook vent. 

I figure I could have my tailor add the third buttonhole if that really bothers me, but I can’t do anything about the darts. On the upside, the corduroy makes the darts blend in, but then my mind thinks that I could get *exactly* what I want from Luxire for roughly the same price once tailoring is accounted for.

Thoughts?


----------



## Charles Dana

Lemmy, I'd be displeased if the product I received didn't match the product I ordered. Then I'd ask myself if I liked the product anyway, because the answer could be "yes."

Don't worry about whether other people think that darts are a "deal breaker;" all that matters is whether or not the darts bother you. If you are not happy with the suit, return it.


----------



## New Old Stock

Anyone know what color these AE for BB MacNeils are?
Brooks list them as 'brown', but that can't be right.


----------



## TDWat

New Old Stock said:


> Anyone know what color these AE for BB MacNeils are?
> Brooks list them as 'brown', but that can't be right.
> 
> View attachment 24677


Alden calls their All Weather Walkers (which are about the same color) brown as well.


----------



## Billax

New Old Stock said:


> Anyone know what color these AE for BB MacNeils are?
> Brooks list them as 'brown', but that can't be right.
> 
> View attachment 24677


Allen Edmonds calls this color Walnut. It is darker than Tan but lighter than Brown. Opinions vary, but I think it's a terrific color that goes with suits and odd trousers of MANY colors.


----------



## kev'n

Can anyone speak of how the quality of Chipp2 Grenadine's compare to Kent Wang or Sam/Benjamin Hober?


----------



## New Old Stock

Billax said:


> Allen Edmonds calls this color Walnut. It is darker than Tan but lighter than Brown. Opinions vary, but I think it's a terrific color that goes with suits and odd trousers of MANY colors.


Thank you for clearing that up, Billax!


----------



## New Old Stock

Found the following mark on my black cordovan 5th Aves today. Called AE Cust. Service, they said to call Recrafting Dept on Monday.
I tried a brush & cloth with no luck, but hesitate to try any cream in case I make it worse.
Has this happened to anyone else with cordovan?

Direct sunlight:








How it actually appears;


----------



## Drew4au

kev'n said:


> Can anyone speak of how the quality of Chipp2 Grenadine's compare to Kent Wang or Sam/Benjamin Hober?


I can't speak to Kent Wang or Hober, but Chipp neckware is comparable offerings from Press and Andover Shop.


----------



## Drew4au

Do I have to wear studs with a formal shirt? I seem to recall that I wouldn’t have to with a pleated one — only a bib front. Thoughts from the hive mind?


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----------



## kev'n

Drew4au said:


> I can't speak to Kent Wang or Hober, but Chipp neckware is comparable offerings from Press and Andover Shop.


Thanks for the info; truly appreciated.


----------



## orange fury

kev'n said:


> Can anyone speak of how the quality of Chipp2 Grenadine's compare to Kent Wang or Sam/Benjamin Hober?


Don't have experience with any of their grenadines (I actually don't own any which is something I need to remedy...), but I do have a tie from Chipp that is very well made. Paul Winston is fantastic as well.


----------



## kev'n

Thanks for the input I'll pull the trigger and get back to you...


----------



## NateNash

Hello all,

I've recently purchased a tan camel hair sportcoat along with several other items from another member of the forum. I have never owned one and wondering what color trouser/shirt/tie combinations y'all recommend?


----------



## FiscalDean

NateNash said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I've recently purchased a tan camel hair sportcoat along with several other items from another member of the forum. I have never owned one and wondering what color trouser/shirt/tie combinations y'all recommend?


A tan camel hair SC can be worn with a wide range of trouser/shirt/tie combinations. Some of my favorite combinations are:

Gray flannels / cream or ivory shirt / tie with gray, tan / cream pattern.

Navy flannels / blue shirt / tie with burgundy, navy / gold pattern or a brown tie with blue.

Brown flannels / blue shirt / tie with brown / blue pattern. A shirt with a gold/brown and tan tattersall pattern would also work.

A blue or cream / ivory shirt would work with any of the three trousers noted above.


----------



## TimF

The "stone"/"cement"/off-white khakis, which clash more with darker sport coats, work well with camelhair.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

NateNash said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I've recently purchased a tan camel hair sportcoat along with several other items from another member of the forum. I have never owned one and wondering what color trouser/shirt/tie combinations y'all recommend?


I usually end up pairing a camel jacket either with grey flannels, a blue OCBD, and a garish repp striped school tie or with well worn 501s, a chambray work shirt, and brown calf Luccheses. Frankly camel jackets are almost as versatile as navy blazers. Congratulations!


----------



## WorkingTrad

So I've taken a few thrifted pants to a cleaner / alterations place down the block to have them hemmed and cuffed. Today the alterations guy told me he couldn't Add proper cuff because the pants were already hemmed and pressed and there would be a line in the cuff from where it had been pressed. There were about two inches of material turned in already and he's shortening by about a half inch. Does this sound reasonable or do I need to go elsewhere?


----------



## Fading Fast

WorkingTrad said:


> So I've taken a few thrifted pants to a cleaner / alterations place down the block to have them hemmed and cuffed. Today the alterations guy told me he couldn't Add proper cuff because the pants were already hemmed and pressed and there would be a line in the cuff from where it had been pressed. There were about two inches of material turned in already and he's shortening by about a half inch. Does this sound reasonable or do I need to go elsewhere?


Others here are more knowledgeable than I, but I've definitely been told the same thing as it takes a lot of extra material to make a proper cuff and - like you - I've been told that a line will show from an early alteration (which - depending on the material might or might not be that noticeable).


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

WorkingTrad said:


> So I've taken a few thrifted pants to a cleaner / alterations place down the block to have them hemmed and cuffed. Today the alterations guy told me he couldn't Add proper cuff because the pants were already hemmed and pressed and there would be a line in the cuff from where it had been pressed. There were about two inches of material turned in already and he's shortening by about a half inch. Does this sound reasonable or do I need to go elsewhere?


The penurious and traditional New Englander in me would say "Let's try it." They clearly need cuffs and if there's a line it's no big deal (unless you got them for some important event where you will be microscopically scrutinized), especially if they are the kind of pants you can wear rumpled. The one solution I might reject would be a very shallow cuff. I like mine 1 3/4" and it always bothers me that many stores who cater to our ilk won't do that. My local tailor gets a fair number of cuffing jobs as a result of Orvis' inflexibility on this point. Whatever you do, good luck and I hope you enjoy them!


----------



## Peak and Pine

TKI67 said:


> They clearly need cuffs and if there's a line it's no big deal


It should be. An indelible crease line across the cuff looks flat-out careless awful. Don't go with that. Do a faux.

A one-and-three-quarter inch cuff, as you prefer, and I do too, requires a minimum of 4-inches of clean, unfettered cloth below where ever it is you want the leg to end. A faux requires just 1-inch.

--------------------------------------------​
Minoooshuh, for those that care:
If your tailor doesn't know how to do a faux, and you can't sew, then pin it up and take it to him. Here's how. And this assumes you have one-inch of face cloth, not turn-under, below your desired length. Measure up 1 and 3/4" from existing hem and draw horizontal soap line. Finger-crease at this line and move the bottom up one-inch. Pin. The valley in the faux will be shallow, a half inch, but won't show.Take to tailor. Flush him with cash. Thank him. Thank me.


----------



## WorkingTrad

Thanks everyone. Unfortunately I may have made a mistake. I left them with the man who does the alterations with the instructions to make as large a cuff as possible. Originally he was saying he could make one but not their standard 1 3/4 size. So I will probably wind up with a short cuff. They cost me very little, but they are very nice, so it's a shame not to have them exactly right. We'll see.


----------



## Fading Fast

WorkingTrad said:


> Thanks everyone. Unfortunately I may have made a mistake. I left them with the man who does the alterations with the instructions to make as large a cuff as possible. Originally he was saying he could make one but not their standard 1 3/4 size. So I will probably wind up with a short cuff. They cost me very little, but they are very nice, so it's a shame not to have them exactly right. We'll see.


Since you probably have no choice, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If the cuffs come back reasonable, enjoy the pants as you seem like you really like them, they are thrifted (so not easy to replace) and the cuff will probably be okay if not your ideal. I only give this advice after a life of fighting it myself. Sometimes, if good is all you can get, it's better to take and enjoy that rather than not enjoying the item at all.


----------



## Charles Dana

WorkingTrad said:


> Thanks everyone. Unfortunately I may have made a mistake. I left them with the man who does the alterations with the instructions to make as large a cuff as possible. Originally he was saying he could make one but not their standard 1 3/4 size. So I will probably wind up with a short cuff. They cost me very little, but they are very nice, so it's a shame not to have them exactly right. We'll see.


Has the alterations guy made the cuffs already? If not, can't you ask him to make the "faux" cuffs that Peak and Pine suggested? And if he cannot do such cuffs, could you take the trousers back unaltered and try a different tailor? ("Faux" cuffs are not unusual. In my experience, several alteration tailors have volunteered the fact that they could do faux cuffs if necessary. It seems to be a point of pride with tailors that they can perfom that secret little trick.)


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> Sometimes, if good is all you can get, it's better to take and enjoy that rather than not enjoying the item at all.


That may work for you, but not for me. Get what you want or forget about it. Second best, nah.

Almost anything can be cuffed (tho I don't advise it for chunky corduroy). Most of my stuff is cuffed and mostly faux (and very complicated I might add, with paper stiffener sewn in, hefty denim inner bindings, rear kick plates, a few wth on-seam valley buttons to allow for emptying, some with visible pick stitching at the top, most of this stuff unnecessary, done only because I'm able to)

Know too, that with a faux the height of the cuff is unlimited. You could have a 6" cuff or higher, just as long as you have minimum one-inch of facing cloth below the desired leg length.


----------



## WorkingTrad

I think they've already finished the work, but I'll definitely ask about a faux cuff next time. Wonderfully helpful advice Peak and Pine.


----------



## OldMetairie

What does a decent used shell cordovan shoe go for relative to a new pair?


----------



## FLMike

OldMetairie said:


> What does a decent used shell cordovan shoe go for relative to a new pair?


What make, what model, what condition? Not enough information to answer your question.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

OldMetairie said:


> What does a decent used shell cordovan shoe go for relative to a new pair?


Prices are all over the place. I'd just look for favored brands on eBay and see what pops up and how it strikes you. Don't limit yourself to the current brands. I recently saw some nice Barrie Ltd. tassel loafers.

BTW even though they are pricey, properly cared for they'll last several decades. If you are not enamored of what you see check out some of the new chromexcel LHSs. They are more casual but will really offer a nice alternative to shiny calf.


----------



## TimF

FLMike said:


> What make, what model, what condition? Not enough information to answer your question.


Seconded. I just want to add that the heyday manufacturers Florsheim, Nettleton, etc. are not longer making cordovan shoes, or in the US. Only Allen Edmonds and Alden remain. It's consensus that the vintage pieces by those top-of-the-line manufacturers are better constructed than current Alden or AE cordovan models. Tighter stitching, double rows of stitching, better foot support, etc. So if you find New olld stock or gently used vintage at or below Alden prices, it might be worthwhile to own something that likely won't be produced again.


----------



## Mossback

Looks like LL Bean is no longer making the classic blucher moc. I love them. Can anyone suggest a high quality, lookalike? Many thanks.


----------



## FLMike

Billy Lee said:


> Looks like LL Bean is no longer making the classic blucher moc. I love them. Can anyone suggest a high quality, lookalike? Many thanks.


Is this not it?

https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/764...ather&bc=474-629-506791&feat=506791-GN2&csp=f

For a better quality option in any case, consider these....

https://www.rancourtandcompany.com/men-s/maine-camp-collection/classic-ranger-moc.html


----------



## Mossback

FLMike said:


> Is this not it?
> 
> https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/764...ather&bc=474-629-506791&feat=506791-GN2&csp=f
> 
> For a better quality option in any case, consider these....
> 
> https://www.rancourtandcompany.com/men-s/maine-camp-collection/classic-ranger-moc.html


I misspoke. Bean has a few left for sale online, but only odd sizes. Not available in the Tyson's store at all. This has been the case since the spring, so I assume they are abandoning the line. Do you wear the Rancourt, and is it comfortable? Thank you for your advice.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Billy Lee said:


> Looks like LL Bean is no longer making the classic blucher moc. I love them. Can anyone suggest a high quality, lookalike? Many thanks.


In addition to the Rancourt in the first reply, check out Quoddy on O'Connell's website (and probably others).


----------



## New Old Stock

Is this Trad?!? :laughing:










Listing (not mine) if anyone is interested;


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Gawd, no!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

New Old Stock said:


> Is this Trad?!? :laughing:
> 
> View attachment 25433
> 
> 
> Listing (not mine) if anyone is interested;


Wrong font and wrong spelling.

;0)


----------



## ran23

When does one start wearing Wool ties? Seems like the AM News guys are still sporting summer ties.


----------



## Fading Fast

ran23 said:


> When does one start wearing Wool ties? Seems like the AM News guys are still sporting summer ties.


For me, whenever the weather and the rest of my outfit calls for one. I wear wool ties with my heavier sport coats (tweeds) and flannel suits. If it's cold enough for one of them - it's cold enough for a wool tie.


----------



## TDWat

Has anyone done a made-to-measure suit from Southwick (or J. Press or BB, who I imagine use Southwick)? I'm considering going that route and I was curious to see if anyone has any feedback on the results.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> For me, whenever the weather and the rest of my outfit calls for one. I wear wool ties with my heavier sport coats (tweeds) and flannel suits. If it's cold enough for one of them - it's cold enough for a wool tie.


Nice call. Nothing beats a herringbone jacket, an OCBD, flannels, and a wool challis neat!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Nice call. Nothing beats a herringbone jacket, an OCBD, flannels, and a wool challis neat!


Could not agree more. My guess, most of us posting in the Trad forum get that same indescribable feeling from wearing classic Ivy / American clothes.

It is in the high 40s, overcast and threatening rain in NYC today, so I have on a pair of heavy khakis, thick Fair Isle socks, Sperry Chukkas, a heavy OCBD, Woolrich sweater and LL Bean rain slicker (long-jacket length) and couldn't love the feel of my clothes more.

There's something so - to me - authentic, real, basic, practical, timeless, comforting about them. They just make me feel good. That's it - I wear them because they make me that happy.


----------



## sogno

At the moment I don't own a long coat to wear over my suit and sportcoats and I need one.
I noticed this tan guncheck coat by abercrombie

https://www.abercrombie.com/shop/us...9792&cjevent=7c39500bec1f11e880f300090a18050c

I really like the design and the price is fair. It can definetely work worn casually with jeans, cords and chinos and a sweater, but
do you think that coat would work over a navy suit? Or over a sportcoat and dress pants outfit?Or it's too casual?

ps do you think that colour would work with medium to light grey ( flannel dress pants)?


----------



## Charles Dana

sogno said:


> I noticed this tan guncheck coat by abercrombie. I really like the design and the price is fair. It can definetely work worn casually with jeans, cords and chinos and a sweater.


I agree.



> do you think that coat would work over a navy suit?


I generally would not wear it with a navy suit because of the discord between the sporty character of the coat and the serious, understated nature of the suit. If the occasion and venue call for a navy suit, then I would be reluctant to wear that coat with it. You could go ahead and do it--it wouldn't violate any natural or man-made laws, and you wouldn't get arrested. But that coat would be far from the best choice with a navy suit.



> Or over a sportcoat and dress pants outfit?


The overcoat would work well with a sport coat and solid-color trousers, provided the overcoat and sport coat don't have clashing patterns.



> ps do you think that colour would work with medium to light grey ( flannel dress pants)?


Yes. Most patterns and colors work in harmony with solid, medium-to-light-grey flannel.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

If I were buying a topcoat to wear with a navy suit I’d pick a solid color and have it long enough to come below my knee, even though current fashion seems to favor a shorter coat. I like a single row of buttons. My color preference if I wanted a bit more versatility, would be camel.


----------



## sogno

Charles Dana said:


> I agree.
> 
> I generally would not wear it with a navy suit because of the discord between the sporty character of the coat and the serious, understated nature of the suit. If the occasion and venue call for a navy suit, then I would be reluctant to wear that coat with it. You could go ahead and do it--it wouldn't violate any natural or man-made laws, and you wouldn't get arrested. But that coat would be far from the best choice with a navy suit.
> 
> The overcoat would work well with a sport coat and solid-color trousers, provided the overcoat and sport coat don't have clashing patterns.
> 
> Yes.  Most patterns and colors work in harmony with solid, medium-to-light-grey flannel.


Thank you for your help.
Yes, I suspected the coat wouldn't be the perfect match with a navy suit.
I want a versatile coat I could wear casually with jeans and cords and that I could wear with a suit or sportcoat and pants. I don't really care about the pairing with the navy suit since I wear suits very rarely ( like once every 2 years). So my main focus is wearing this coat with jeans and chinos and with a blazer and pants ( that I wear more often than suits). I will wear the overcoat with a navy suit even tho I realize it is not ideal, as you suggested. I can't justify buying an overcoat just to wear it with suits or sportcoats since it is rare I do so.
Atleast i can wear this overcoat with everything even if it is not ideal with suits.
I also believe patterned coats like the gun check work better casually ( with jeans, corduroys and chinos) compared to solid navy or grey overcoats.
At the moment I have a solid navy sportcoat and brown herringbone tweed so I think the pairing with the overcoat in terms of pattern should be fine.

I'm still not convinced about the colours pairing of the tan overcoat with medium or light grey pants, but I will see when I have the overcoat in hand.

Abercrombie makes an identical coat in a grey herringbone. I think the grey is more versatile in theory but I think this gun check is jauntier. I also don't think it would pair nicely with grey pants.

https://www.abercrombie.com/shop/eu...11767819?categoryId=84950&seq=01&faceout=prod

Edit: the grey overcoat is a wool blend, the gun check is 100% wool


----------



## Charles Dana

sogno said:


> I'm still not convinced about the colours pairing of the tan overcoat with medium or light grey pants, but I will see when I have the overcoat in hand.


Probably a lot of people think that tan and medium/light grey don't work well together. But then the more people think about colors, and the more experience they get in coordinating colors, the more likely they are to conclude that, contrary to their early intuition, tan and gray do complement each other very well.

Expand those horizons.



> Abercrombie makes an identical coat in a grey herringbone. I also don't think it would pair nicely with grey pants.


I agree, unless the pants are charcoal grey--but even then, that might be too much grey.


----------



## New Old Stock

Can't add much better advice than has been given, but thought it was funny/sad that both topcoats were called "The A&F *Dad* Coat".


----------



## HOOT

Anybody know if O'Connell's has some discount codes for Cyber Monday?


----------



## New Old Stock

From what I gather, when it comes to flannel trousers, 'Mid Grey' is the standard.
What about the standard grey flannel suit? Where does that fall on the greyscale?


----------



## Charles Dana

New Old Stock said:


> From what I gather, when it comes to flannel trousers, 'Mid Grey' is the standard.
> What about the standard grey flannel suit? Where does that fall on the greyscale?


I don't think the term "standard grey flannel suit" has any one objective definition. If it does, I'm not aware of it. To me, I guess "standard" here means that the flannel is darker than mid-grey but lighter than dark/charcoal grey. I think that would be the color that would be most versatile during the day in an office where the dress code still requires suits.

Of course, if you're a suit-wearing guy, it would be advisable to also have grey suits that are darker--much darker--and perhaps one that is lighter as well--for the sake of variety and depending on the venue and the reason you're wearing the suit.

Since the advent of "business casual," the term "standard grey flannel suit" (if such a term really exists) has probably gotten seriously diluted. Then again, I could be deluded.


----------



## New Old Stock

Charles Dana said:


> ... darker than mid-grey but lighter than dark/charcoal grey. I think that would be the color that would be most versatile...


Thank you Mr. Dana! Looking through some old Brooks & J.Press catalogs from the late 70s / early 80s most of the flannels are listed as "Cambridge Grey".



Charles Dana said:


> Then again, I could be deluded.


Never!


----------



## Fading Fast

New Old Stock said:


> From what I gather, when it comes to flannel trousers, 'Mid Grey' is the standard.
> What about the standard grey flannel suit? Where does that fall on the greyscale?


Pics from 1956's "The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit." Shame the color is inconsistent in the pics, but I'd say they, overall, argue for a mid-grey. Filmed right in the middle of Ivy's and the grey-flannel-suit's heyday.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

New Old Stock said:


> Thank you Mr. Dana! Looking through some old Brooks & J.Press catalogs from the late 70s / early 80s most of the flannels are listed as "Cambridge Grey".
> 
> Never!


Yes! IIRC that age had far fewer shades of grey. In the realm of flannel there Cambridge and Oxford. There was more variation in worsted. The accelerated proliferation of other shades seemed to occur in the 1980s.


----------



## LewisDias

What clothes and colors can I combine with this scarf? I bought it to wear with my Barbour coat, but I wanted to wear it with other clothes too


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

LewisDias said:


> What clothes and colors can I combine with this scarf? I bought it to wear with my Barbour coat, but I wanted to wear it with other clothes too


That's a wonderful scarf. Today I was in olive cords, a chambray shirt, and snuff suede LHSs. Ten degrees cooler, and that scarf would have worked great. I also see it with a camel jacket, a blue OCBD, and a navy challis neat tie. It also looks as if it might work with some rust cords or a brick madder neat tie. It definitely plays well with all manner of blue shirtings IMO. I could also see it with yellow or ecru. And then a pink OCBD goes with almost anything.

;0)


----------



## TDWat

LewisDias said:


> What clothes and colors can I combine with this scarf? I bought it to wear with my Barbour coat, but I wanted to wear it with other clothes too


If I'm wearing a scarf I generally don't color coordinate it at all. Since it's outwear that tends to go with a coat that covers everything else up I don't know that it really needs to match anything.


----------



## LewisDias

​


TKI67 said:


> That's a wonderful scarf. Today I was in olive cords, a chambray shirt, and snuff suede LHSs. Ten degrees cooler, and that scarf would have worked great. I also see it with a camel jacket, a blue OCBD, and a navy challis neat tie. It also looks as if it might work with some rust cords or a brick madder neat tie. It definitely plays well with all manner of blue shirtings IMO. I could also see it with yellow or ecru. And then a pink OCBD goes with almost anything.
> 
> ;0)





TDWat said:


> If I'm wearing a scarf I generally don't color coordinate it at all. Since it's outwear that tends to go with a coat that covers everything else up I don't know that it really needs to match anything.


I like to wear it with my Barbour coat, but in fact in the accessories like a scarf I like to add some color, to the winter outfit. This scarf in a dark winter outfit, will look even darker and boring..


----------



## nevr18

Would you wear a bow tie with crew neck LL Bean Norwegian sweater? If so, what patterns?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

nevr18 said:


> Would you wear a bow tie with crew neck LL Bean Norwegian sweater? If so, what patterns?


I wouldn't, but if one were to do so I'd go with something like a deep, not bright, red madder or challis to contrast with the blue and white, maybe a smallish one with pointed ends, not a butterfly.


----------



## mhardy

nevr18 said:


> Would you wear a bow tie with crew neck LL Bean Norwegian sweater? If so, what patterns?


This is a fisherman's sweater. Intended for outdoors and work. Pairing with a bowtie would be inappropriate in my opinion.


----------



## Patrick06790

Won't the tie get all bunched up in the crewneck? Doesn't seem practical, unless the sweater is very loose-fitting


----------



## OldMetairie

Where on the arm should a sleeve garter be worn?


----------



## Charles Dana

OldMetairie said:


> Where on the arm should a sleeve garter be worn?


A couple of inches above the elbow; a little higher, a little lower, depending on what feels most comfortable to you.


----------



## WorkingTrad

I'm trying to identify a totally unlabelled blazer. Does anyone recognize this button? Have other tips or resources for this quest?


----------



## fred johnson

WorkingTrad said:


> I'm trying to identify a totally unlabelled blazer. Does anyone recognize this button? Have other tips or resources for this quest?
> View attachment 27440


Looks a lot like the buttons J Press uses, check the back to see if it's from Waterbury Buttons or pop into Press on College St. and see if it matches..


----------



## New Old Stock

WorkingTrad said:


> I'm trying to identify a totally unlabelled blazer. Does anyone recognize this button? Have other tips or resources for this quest?
> View attachment 27440


Waterbury has the design, but its only labelled "crest with rim", no mention of a retailer either:
https://waterburybutton.com/product-detail/crest-w-rim-9151


----------



## WorkingTrad

Thanks Fred Johnson and NOS,

I've not heard of Waterbury buttons before--im learning so much here--and that is indeed the button. Any tips on how to identify the origins of this apparently unlabelled blazer?


----------



## TDWat

WorkingTrad said:


> Thanks Fred Johnson and NOS,
> 
> I've not heard of Waterbury buttons before--im learning so much here--and that is indeed the button. Any tips on how to identify the origins of this apparently unlabelled blazer?


Does it have a union tag inside? Usually inside of an interior breast pocket. You can narrow down the era (and potentially manufacturer) with the numbering on the tag.


----------



## WorkingTrad

TDWat said:


> Does it have a union tag inside? Usually inside of an interior breast pocket. You can narrow down the era (and potentially manufacturer) with the numbering on the tag.


There is no union tag and no origin of manufacture tag. The only tag there is says something like "dry clean only, do not use coin operated dry clean machine" and it's in the interior breast pocket. I'll pull it out and put up the exact wording tomorrow am.


----------



## fred johnson

New Old Stock said:


> Waterbury has the design, but its only labelled "crest with rim", no mention of a retailer either:
> https://waterburybutton.com/product-detail/crest-w-rim-9151


Crest with rim is not the J Press button.


----------



## LukeRoz

Any thoughts on the trad nature of these? I have a hard time finding comfortable pennies and Sperry seems to fit me well.


----------



## Fading Fast

LukeRoz said:


> Any thoughts on the trad nature of these? I have a hard time finding comfortable pennies and Sperry seems to fit me well.


They look pretty trad to me. I don't know if that exact color was available "back in the day," but the style and features of the shoe look trad to me.


----------



## Charles Dana

LukeRoz said:


> Any thoughts on the trad nature of these? I have a hard time finding comfortable pennies and Sperry seems to fit me well.


Do you like how they look?


----------



## TropicalCyclone

What do you guys think of pastel coloured corduroys on a younger man?


----------



## Charles Dana

TropicalCyclone said:


> What do you guys think of pastel coloured corduroys on a younger man?


What do YOU think of pastel coloured corduroys on a younger man?

I associate pastel colors more with summer rather than with autumn/winter fabrics. (Exception: Cream flannels. A navy blazer and cream-colored flannel trousers--a classic combo.) Still, regardless of your age, wear pastel-colored corduroy if doing so will make you happy. You can get away with it if you are the insouciant type, and your entire outfit is coordinated and fits you well. "Pastel corduroy" may seem to be a self-contradictory term; perhaps it is, but if so, it's an inconsequential one.

Of course, as is the case with any kind of clothes, you have to show common sense by taking context into consideration. Some people might raise an eyebrow, but it's unlikely they'll call 911.


----------



## TimF

TropicalCyclone said:


> What do you guys think of pastel coloured corduroys on a younger man?


Age got nothing to do with it. The situation they are worn in does.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

TropicalCyclone said:


> What do you guys think of pastel coloured corduroys on a younger man?


i think they are better suited to a gentleman of a certain age. I choose pink.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Sort of like a texturized version of Nantucket Reds!


----------



## Billax

TimF said:


> Age got nothing to do with it. The situation they are worn it does.


I'm not sure I'm following Tim F's grammar, but as a 77 year old, I'm buying in to his pastel conclusion!


----------



## Charles Dana

In 1986 Molly Ringwald starred in the romantic comedy "Pretty in Pink." It's a pretty decent movie. 

This thread looks as if it could be the basis for "Pretty in Pink II: Men in Pants."


----------



## lemmy

Anyone know the chest measurement of a size large Andover Shop Shetland? I saw elsewhere here that the medium is 44", and that's a bit snugger than I'd like (My chest is 43"), but I'm not really interested if it's 48" or more. Figured I'd ask here before emailing the shop.

Also, does anyone have a good photo of their green lovat or blue lovat sweaters (non-brushed)? I'm interested in those two colors, but the website photos aren't the best.


----------



## Charles Dana

TKI67 said:


> i think they are better suited to a gentleman of a certain age. I choose pink.


WARNING: Song parody imminent

Pink trousers. I like them, too, but come on--how can you not make them the centerpiece of a song parody?

Exactly 40 years ago, Neil Diamond's song "Forever in Blue Jeans" was a big hit. In honor of the song's 40th anniversary, I present the following (and I admit it's weird to write a clothing-centric parody of a song that is already about clothing--weirder than usual, anyway):

RETIRED IN PINK PANTS
(Sung to the tune of "Forever in Blue Jeans." Lyrics by Neil Diamond and Richard Bennett)

I let go
Now I don't work an' strive
And I go slow
I get a kick from showing off my plants
I play golf and dance
Retired in pink pants

People glance
The sight of my clothes stops them in their tracks
If they just relax
I'll guarantee
I'm happily
Retired in pink pants

Dang there's my wife
Dang there's my wife
I need to hide, she'll be fit to be tied
She said "Dispose of the clothes that are pink by tonight."

I let go
Now I don't work an' strive
And I go slow
And in order to avoid angry rants 
I hide behind plants 
--Retired in pink pants, guys.


----------



## Eligius

lemmy said:


> Anyone know the chest measurement of a size large Andover Shop Shetland? I saw elsewhere here that the medium is 44", and that's a bit snugger than I'd like (My chest is 43"), but I'm not really interested if it's 48" or more. Figured I'd ask here before emailing the shop.
> 
> Also, does anyone have a good photo of their green lovat or blue lovat sweaters (non-brushed)? I'm interested in those two colors, but the website photos aren't the best.


Green lovat: I really like this color


----------



## Eligius

lemmy said:


> Anyone know the chest measurement of a size large Andover Shop Shetland? I saw elsewhere here that the medium is 44", and that's a bit snugger than I'd like (My chest is 43"), but I'm not really interested if it's 48" or more. Figured I'd ask here before emailing the shop.
> 
> Also, does anyone have a good photo of their green lovat or blue lovat sweaters (non-brushed)? I'm interested in those two colors, but the website photos aren't the best.


My Andover Shop large shetlands are 23 inches pit-to-pit


----------



## Parapraxis

Are these the "LHS" penny loafers that, for the most part, get rave reviews? I wont ask about sizing as there are many, many threads addressing this!
https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Cord...html?dwvar_034H_Color=BLCK&contentpos=2&cgid=


----------



## TDWat

Parapraxis said:


> Are these the "LHS" penny loafers that, for the most part, get rave reviews? I wont ask about sizing as there are many, many threads addressing this!
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Cord...html?dwvar_034H_Color=BLCK&contentpos=2&cgid=


Yep, that's them.


----------



## Parapraxis

Thank you much! It appears that they are being cleared out at BB and that this could be a good time to pick up a pair.


----------



## TDWat

Parapraxis said:


> Thank you much! It appears that they are being cleared out at BB and that this could be a good time to pick up a pair.


Go for it! That's a great price.


----------



## New Old Stock

Got the Spring/Summer 2019 J.Press Brochure in the mail today. Noticed they are selling Liberty floral print ties. Don't see them worn much on the Forum. Are these a staple in the Trad wardrobe or, to steal a line from the brochure, "an evolution of the J.Press heritage"?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

New Old Stock said:


> Got the Spring/Summer 2019 J.Press Brochure in the mail today. Noticed they are selling Liberty floral print ties. Don't see them worn much on the Forum. Are these a staple in the Trad wardrobe or, to steal a line from the brochure, "an evolution of the J.Press heritage"?


I noticed that as well, not to mention a page of ties that certainly looked like Vineyard Vines. I've always thought of Liberty of London for men as a shirting material circa 1970 (not Trad) and as a shirting material for girlfriends of Trads circa 1965 (the era of Villager for girls, very Trad). All in all a nice brochure, however. J. Press does Madras and seersucker very well.


----------



## New Old Stock

TKI67 said:


> ...not to mention a page of ties that certainly looked like Vineyard Vines...


I thought the faux VV/Ferragamo ties were the worst thing in the catalog until I got to the back and saw the "new" Blue Label. How it differs from York St, I don't know. It looks like the model borrowed half his wardrobe from his dad, the other half from his little brother.

The Liberty ties seem like a decent alternative for those who can't stomach Madras. But the prints J.Press are selling look like Keith Haring made them - much too clean/saturated. The originals have a painted/faded look that really are quite nice in my opinion.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Re the new Press catalogue and ties - I do like how they are using a lot of knit ties.

Also, I really like this outfit:


----------



## WorkingTrad

TropicalCyclone said:


> What do you guys think of pastel coloured corduroys on a younger man?


To me, it totally depends on the color. Notably a pastel yellow would be something I might wear (30 years old), especially with a wide wale and a fuller cut through the leg. Once it starts getting into contemporary prep territory, i.e. 5 pockets, pinks, etc. it's not for me. But that's just because it's not the look I'm going for, at the end of the day, like everything, if you like them and they help achieve a look you want, go for it.


----------



## Jeff84

Would a brown jacket work with light gray trousers?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Jeff84 said:


> Would a brown jacket work with light gray trousers?


Work? Probably. Look spectacular? Probably not. I'd think maybe taupe gabs would be better.


----------



## Jeff84

Thanks. I didn’t think it’d work, but wanted to be sure.


----------



## Jeff84

I'm thinking my brown sport coat and navy or charcoal trousers with this hunter green tie. Since the tie has some yellow in it, would yellow braces work with the other colors, mainly the sport coat?Sorry for the bad lighting, but in real life the sport coat is of a darker shade of brown.


----------



## TropicalCyclone

I'm of the camp that if matching colors is for women. I'd personally be more worried about the clash of colors with the shirt, since the braces would not be seen with the braces on, the color of the blazer is a non-factor. You would be able to solicit better opinions if you showed us the pants and the shirt; you know the actual items that would be seen with the aforementioned brace. In the future, try to avoid the tie bar, the quality could be described by many four letter words that are synonymous with shit.


----------



## Jeff84

Would a dark Brown sportcoat go with charcoal trousers?


----------



## Peak and Pine

TropicalCyclone said:


> I'm of the camp that if matching colors is for women.


Anyone in that camp but you?


> In the future, try to avoid the tie bar, the quality could be described by many four letter words that are synonymous with shit.


There's forthright and there's crude. I'm of the camp that says you're in the latter.


----------



## TDWat

Jeff84 said:


> Would a dark Brown sportcoat go with charcoal trousers?


Depends on the exact shades of each color, I think. I frequently wear a brown tweed jacket and charcoal flannels.


----------



## Jeff84

I like and am indifferent about Tie Bar. It’s cheap, the ties are packed and shipped better than Brooks Brothers, yet I’ve had two unravel on me (lack of quality). I could always use good suggestions for better brands.


----------



## eagle2250

You might browse through the tie displays at a BB Outlet store...the ties are reasonably nice, the selection impressive and they not badly priced. Good luck in your hunt!


----------



## rastaman8

There are a few J. Press dress trousers on sale, and I want to make the leap to the Big Leagues (from J. Crew wool dress pants—over these) with my first pair of charcoal/grey dress trousers (worn almost always with navy blazer).

Looking at (the ones on sale):

CHARCOAL WOOL - TRIM FIT
MEDIUM GREY FLANNEL - TRIM FIT
MEDIUM GREY WOOL - TRIM FIT
MEDIUM GREY FLANNEL
SUPER 100'S FLANNEL WOOL TROUSER - CHARCOAL GREY

I'm a slim guy—usual pants size is 31x30. I want good drape (this is what J. Crews sorely lacks); good weight but fairly year-round; looks good with burgundy Weejuns and black Park Aves. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

rastaman8 said:


> There are a few J. Press dress trousers on sale, and I want to make the leap to the Big Leagues (from J. Crew wool dress pants-over these) with my first pair of charcoal/grey dress trousers (worn almost always with navy blazer).
> 
> Looking at (the ones on sale):
> 
> CHARCOAL WOOL - TRIM FIT
> MEDIUM GREY FLANNEL - TRIM FIT
> MEDIUM GREY WOOL - TRIM FIT
> MEDIUM GREY FLANNEL
> SUPER 100'S FLANNEL WOOL TROUSER - CHARCOAL GREY
> 
> I'm a slim guy-usual pants size is 31x30. I want good drape (this is what J. Crews sorely lacks); good weight but fairly year-round; looks good with burgundy Weejuns and black Park Aves. Thanks in advance.


Flannel will not be suitable for year 'round use. Unless you are in a very cold clime tropical worsted will be far more flexible. One of the best non-sale deals I've found is Berle trousers at Hunter and Coggins.


----------



## rastaman8

TKI67 said:


> Flannel will not be suitable for year 'round use. Unless you are in a very cold clime tropical worsted will be far more flexible. One of the best non-sale deals I've found is Berle trousers at Hunter and Coggins.


Thanks for the help! Which Berle model, specifically, at Hunter and Coggins? Berle 100% Worsted Wool Tropical 2 Ply?


----------



## TimF

Today's flannels are thinner than what we grew up with. So it can be year round, assuming your car/office has good AC.

Go with medium gray for more versatility. Charcoal is more limiting.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

rastaman8 said:


> Thanks for the help! Which Berle model, specifically, at Hunter and Coggins? Berle 100% Worsted Wool Tropical 2 Ply?


That's the one I'd pick, but TimF raises an aspect of newer flannels of which I was not aware.


----------



## sogno

what fabric is the shirt Bob Dylan is wearing in this picture? Is it chambray?

https://runninginlahore.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bob-dylan-color3.jpg


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

sogno said:


> what fabric is the shirt Bob Dylan is wearing in this picture? Is it chambray?
> 
> https://runninginlahore.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/bob-dylan-color3.jpg


Looks like fairly new chambray, not yet faded.


----------



## August West

My soon to be 15 year old son is in need of a new navy blazer. He's about 5-11" tall, and weights no more than 120 lbs soaking wet. I measured his chest yesterday at 32.5 inches! I had to do it 3 or 4 times to make sure I wasn't messing up.
He has a great build for running track (which he does), but a terrible build for blazer shopping. He's too tall for boys sizing, but to skinny for adult sizing. I can't seem to find anything smaller than a size 36, and most of those are shorts which would not work. 

Any thoughts on where I should be looking? I also don't want to break the bank because the way he has been growing lately I don't think this blazer is going to last him very long.


----------



## MDP

August West said:


> My soon to be 15 year old son is in need of a new navy blazer. He's about 5-11" tall, and weights no more than 120 lbs soaking wet. I measured his chest yesterday at 32.5 inches! I had to do it 3 or 4 times to make sure I wasn't messing up.
> He has a great build for running track (which he does), but a terrible build for blazer shopping. He's too tall for boys sizing, but to skinny for adult sizing. I can't seem to find anything smaller than a size 36, and most of those are shorts which would not work.
> 
> Any thoughts on where I should be looking? I also don't want to break the bank because the way he has been growing lately I don't think this blazer is going to last him very long.


SuitSupply carries 32R and 34R in a number of their jackets. It's more neopolitan than trad but if you got something like this and swapped out the buttons for gold it wouldn't be too far off. They also provide the garment measurements online. It's going to be hard finding something long enough because the lengths are so scaled down in those sizes, even in regular.


----------



## August West

MDP said:


> SuitSupply carries 32R and 34R in a number of their jackets.


Thank you MDP, I had not thought of SuitSupply as an option.


----------



## Dannyboy005

Dumb question: would having a tailor move the buttons of a suit jacket outwards slightly be a perfectly sensible way to let the waist out a bit? Thanks


----------



## ran23

I did that on a suit jacket, turned out ok.


----------



## Dannyboy005

ran23 said:


> I did that on a suit jacket, turned out ok.


Good to know thanks.


----------



## oldsoulmodernworld

Two questions...Does anyone have any recommendations for saddle shoulder cotton/cotton blend sweaters? Does anyone know where Ben Silver gets their sweaters made ie LOKL? 

Thanks again


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Dannyboy005 said:


> Dumb question: would having a tailor move the buttons of a suit jacket outwards slightly be a perfectly sensible way to let the waist out a bit? Thanks


It certainly would seem so, but there isn't a great deal of room before the button begins to overlap the edge of the fabric, which would not look good.


----------



## Dannyboy005

TKI67 said:


> It certainly would seem so, but there isn't a great deal of room before the button begins to overlap the edge of the fabric, which would not look good.


Thanks. I had it done and it turned out pretty well.


----------



## August West

I am looking for a very casual unlined, unstructured sport coat. This one would fit the bill, if only it didn't have darts: https://www.orvis.com/p/washed-casual-sport-coat/1T0H?adv=615673&cm_mmc=Criteo-_-LF-_-13118-_-615673

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.


----------



## eagle2250

You might want to take a look at O'Connell's cotton poplin suits. When I bought mine they carried them in khaki, navy and OD hues. When I recently attempted to replace my navy hued suit, they had very limited sizing available for the navy cotton poplin and I didn't check on the OD. They seemed to have most sizes of the khaki hued suits. Good luck in your hunt!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

You might consider Murray's. They come in red, khaki, or blue.

https://www.nantucketreds.com/collections/mens/products/nr-mens-blazers?variant=198559262


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I can't speak for member August West, But I think I'm going to have to give the navy version of the jacket you recommend, a closer look! It might coordinate well with my Reds(?). :icon_scratch:


----------



## August West

TKI67 said:


> You might consider Murray's. They come in red, khaki, or blue.
> 
> https://www.nantucketreds.com/collections/mens/products/nr-mens-blazers?variant=198559262


Thanks. That looks like it could fit the bill. I only wish they had pictures of the other colors on the website.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

August West said:


> Thanks. That looks like it could fit the bill. I only wish they had pictures of the other colors on the website.


They are nice folks. I'd ask them for a photo by text or email. I'll bet it is the same lighter blue as the blue pants in the Nantucket Reds line.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> I can't speak for member August West, But I think I'm going to have to give the navy version of the jacket you recommend, a closer look! It might coordinate well with my Reds(?). :icon_scratch:


i think it is a lighter blue than navy.


----------



## August West

TKI67 said:


> They are nice folks. I'd ask them for a photo by text or email. I'll bet it is the same lighter blue as the blue pants in the Nantucket Reds line.


I sent an email earlier today, asking to see what the khaki and blue looked like. I will share any info I get from them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I am looking forward to learning of your findings. I was sort of hoping for a faded navy, in the spirit of the Nantucket Reds.


----------



## August West

TKI67 said:


> They are nice folks. I'd ask them for a photo by text or email. I'll bet it is the same lighter blue as the blue pants in the Nantucket Reds line.


You are correct. They replied to my email stating exactly this. Here's what the blue looks like: https://www.nantucketreds.com/collections/mens-pants/products/nr-mens-pants-blue


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

August West said:


> You are correct. They replied to my email stating exactly this. Here's what the blue looks like: https://www.nantucketreds.com/collections/mens-pants/products/nr-mens-pants-blue


Now I'm thinking of that as a light summer jacket!


----------



## TimF

Does anyone know (roughly) when Brooks Brothers stopped making their surcingle belts in USA?


----------



## Danny

What is this jacket cuff called when it's not functional buttons but the cuff is split [not just continuous fabric all the way around the wrist]?








...And is it considered cheesy? Or nice? Trad? I know I have seen it but don't recall the distinction between this and a continuous cuff being scrutinized or described in detail.


----------



## Fading Fast

Danny said:


> What is this jacket cuff called when it's not functional buttons but the cuff is split [not just continuous fabric all the way around the wrist]?
> View attachment 33015


I have no idea, but I have an idea who will. It's time for the @Matt S Bat Signal


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> I have no idea, but I have an idea who will. It's time for the @Matt S Bat Signal
> View attachment 33016


Wrong movie series for Matt. You need to tell him to leave the casino right away and report to M's office.


----------



## Matt S

Danny said:


> What is this jacket cuff called when it's not functional buttons but the cuff is split [not just continuous fabric all the way around the wrist]?
> View attachment 33015
> 
> ...And is it considered cheesy? Or nice? Trad? I know I have seen it but don't recall the distinction between this and a continuous cuff being scrutinized or described in detail.


It's a vented sleeve, whether or not it has buttonholes. All jacket sleeves should be vented at a minimum. People can see a vent from a distance, while buttonholes aren't noticed until up close. When I see a sleeve without a vent it makes me think of a rental. It's much easier to alter sleeve length without a vent, hence why rentals don't have them.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Yes to what Matt said. I will drone on with more. It's a once-functional feature, now a design element. As said, you can see it at a distance because the overlay is thick and often creates shadow. If you look inside you'll see that the lining does not gap, but shoots right over. This would not happen were it a functional cuff. Why would you use the word _cheesy_? Don't think I've ever seen a jacket without this. Here in New England every 12 out of 13 homes, including mobil and double-wides, have shutters. They don't work, they're never closed, but the facade of a Cape Cod would look bare without them. The sleeve vent is like that.


----------



## Fading Fast

Charles Dana said:


> Wrong movie series for Matt. You need to tell him to leave the casino right away and report to M's office.


Very fair point.

Since it wouldn't be a signal like the Bat signal, do any of these images seem right? For our purposes, I'm partial to the close up on the phone.


----------



## Charles Dana

Fading Fast said:


> Very fair point.
> 
> Since it wouldn't be a signal like the Bat signal, do any of these images seem right? For our purposes, I'm partial to the close up on the phone.
> View attachment 33037
> View attachment 33038
> View attachment 33039
> View attachment 33040
> View attachment 33041
> View attachment 33042
> View attachment 33043


Yes--I agree that the close-up of Bond on the phone dovetails with the member's desire to have someone come and educate him on the tailoring of suit sleeve cuffs. Let's save the last photo--the iconic gunbarrel's eye view--for when someone asks for a critique of a new cut-rate MTM suit, purchased via the Internet. "You want to know what I think of your suit?" BAM!


----------



## Fading Fast

Hi, my girlfriend bought the below "back-less" pennies at Talbots, literally, decades ago and she'd like to buy a similar pair again.

However, we've only found a few places that have anything similar and none have had what she wants - the classic leather Penny (as pictured below) but "back-less." Bean has them in suede, but again, she wants classic leather.

Anyone - or anyone's trad girlfriend - know of a place that has them? Thank you.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Hi, my girlfriend bought the below "back-less" pennies at Talbots, literally, decades ago and she'd like to buy a similar pair again.
> 
> However, we've only found a few places that have anything similar and none have had what she wants - the classic leather Penny (as pictured below) but "back-less." Bean has them in suede, but again, she wants classic leather.
> 
> Anyone - or anyone's trad girlfriend - know of a place that has them? Thank you.
> View attachment 33498
> View attachment 33499


No, but they are cool...just getting good!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> No, but they are cool...just getting good!


She loves them and they aren't going anywhere - she's just preparing for the future as they've spent some time with the shoe repair guy and he's been a bit discouraging.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> She loves them and they aren't going anywhere - she's just preparing for the future as they've spent some time with the shoe repair guy and he's been a bit discouraging.


https://www.ghbass.com/product/wynn...z_g9qABdadrzJ9riLE4VYD7052D64JAhoCNCgQAvD_BwE
Search the Bass site for the Wynn Mule. It looks pretty close. I'm thinking of getting my wife a pair.

I think the link is to the cordovan or black, but the Cognac looks closer to what she has.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> https://www.ghbass.com/product/wynn...z_g9qABdadrzJ9riLE4VYD7052D64JAhoCNCgQAvD_BwE
> Search the Bass site for the Wynn Mule. It looks pretty close. I'm thinking of getting my wife a pair.


Good find. I know she was hoping for a very similar color / finish - brown / waxy - to the one's she has, but I'm excited to run these by her when she gets home later. Thank you.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Good find. I know she was hoping for a very similar color / finish - brown / waxy - to the one's she has, but I'm excited to run these by her when she gets home later. Thank you.


See my edit to the above. Sorry. Should have just said separately to check them in Cognac.


----------



## LewisDias

What do you think about sneakers for a casual style, to wear with jeans, a jumper and a barbour jacket or a duffle coat?
I'm thinking buy these


----------



## Charles Dana

LewisDias said:


> What do you think about sneakers for a casual style, to wear with jeans, a jumper and a barbour jacket or a duffle coat?
> I'm thinking buy these


They're certainly not "trad," but no matter--if you like them, wear them. (Desert boots or loafers would be "trad," but life's too short to be a purist. Whatever you wear, if you wear it with confidence and you are friendly, you'll do fine.)


----------



## LewisDias

Charles Dana said:


> They're certainly not "trad," but no matter--if you like them, wear them. (Desert boots or loafers would be "trad," but life's too short to be a purist. Whatever you wear, if you wear it with confidence and you are friendly, you'll do fine.)


Sure, I also have the trad 2 pairs of desert boots that I will wear a lot, but I like to have a good pair of sneakers, easy to put on and comfortable for relaxed days.
The important thing is that I feel good and confident, but to a certain extent. You have to be aware of what to use or not to use / mix.


----------



## TimF

LewisDias said:


> Sure, I also have the trad 2 pairs of desert boots that I will wear a lot, but I like to have a good pair of sneakers, easy to put on and comfortable for relaxed days.
> The important thing is that I feel good and confident, but to a certain extent. You have to be aware of what to use or not to use / mix.


I would not mix. Sneakers are only for the gym/jogging, IMO.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I’m ok with sneakers with certain very casual outfits like old khakis and grey sweatshirts, but those aren’t sneakers. Sneakers in my parlance are typically white canvas topped rubber soled shoes like Tretorns or Sperrys. That said, if you like wearing athletic shoes with casual outfits, go for it!


----------



## FLMike

MiUSA New Balance are absolutely Southern Prep, or what I’d call “80’s Trad”, if that could be a thing. Feel free to wear them with jeans, khakis, or shorts. The teal color renders them slightly less classic, but the style is fine. What the hell’s a jumper, though?


----------



## LewisDias

FLMike said:


> MiUSA New Balance are absolutely Southern Prep, or what I'd call "80's Trad", if that could be a thing. Feel free to wear them with jeans, khakis, or shorts. The teal color renders them slightly less classic, but the style is fine. What the hell's a jumper, though?


I like the shape of these new balance, the color is thinking in the winter months, I find a color that matches easily with navy or gray, but on the other hand can be very flashy, and highlight the shoes.
Maybe a more neutral color like this is better?









Jumper is a wool crewneck, usually merino or sheetland
That's how I intend to use sneakers, with a slim fit jens, a wool sweater and a waxed barbour on top.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

LewisDias said:


> I like the shape of these new balance, the color is thinking in the winter months, I find a color that matches easily with navy or gray, but on the other hand can be very flashy, and highlight the shoes.
> Maybe a more neutral color like this is better?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jumper is a wool crewneck, usually merino or sheetland
> That's how I intend to use sneakers, with a slim fit jens, a wool sweater and a waxed barbour on top.


Personally I like it when using athletic shoes in that way to go with very bright colors like orange, very bright yellow, etc., sort of a GTH shoe.


----------



## Charles Dana

If you are going to wear the New Balance shoes with jeans and a waxed Barbour--which are very casual garments--it doesn't really matter if the shoes are colorful . You can't go wrong with more sedate shoes, but a boldly-colored pair would not be wrong, given the outfit that you envision.

For your purposes, one pair isn't "better" than the other, so go with whatever you prefer.


----------



## LewisDias

Charles Dana said:


> If you are going to wear the New Balance shoes with jeans and a waxed Barbour--which are very casual garments--it doesn't really matter if the shoes are colorful . You can't go wrong with more sedate shoes, but a boldly-colored pair would not be wrong, given the outfit that you envision.
> 
> For your purposes, one pair isn't "better" than the other, so go with whatever you prefer.


Okay, I'll just use it casually, of course.
But on second thought, although I like the color, burgundy, because it's a colorful and different shoe color from the ordinary, I think I'll quickly get bored of them, after 1 month I'm tired of seeing burdundy on my feet..
That's what I think, I've never had colorful shoes before .


----------



## Charles Dana

LewisDias said:


> [A]lthough I like the color, burgundy, because it's a colorful and different shoe color from the ordinary, I think I'll quickly get bored of them, after 1 month I'm tired of seeing burdundy on my feet..
> That's what I think, I've never had colorful shoes before .


In that case, buy the more sedate shoes. Later, as your budget allows, buy some flashier shoes, if you still have an itch for them. The greater the variety in your shoe wardrobe, the less likely you'll get bored with any one pair.


----------



## August West

New Balance 574 are my go to. Most often worn with shorts, sometimes jeans, occasionally with a pair of beat up canvas khakis. https://www.newbalance.com/pd/574-e...ith_Team Red#color=Classic Blue_with_Team Red

They come in a ton of different color combos, and can usually be had for less than $50 at the New Balance online outlet.


----------



## LewisDias

nah, 574 you see a lot around, they are very usual, but if you like is what matters!
I prefer the 998, a very different shape that pleases me and made in USA


----------



## L. B. Goold

How easy is it to tuck trousers with turn-ups into Bean Boots? I've ordered a 10" pair and I'm worried about bunching, particularly since most of my trousers are relatively substantial (cords, moleskins, cavalry twills).


----------



## eagle2250

^^
If you are worried about bunching your trouser cuffs, use blousing rings to allow your pants to drape down over your Bean Boots. 

PS: Welcome to AAAC!


----------



## L. B. Goold

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> If you are worried about bunching your trouser cuffs, use blousing rings to allow your pants to drape down over your Bean Boots.
> 
> PS: Welcome to AAAC!


I'd heard the trad forum favoured khakis, but didn't know it meant the bdu sort; might very well pick a few rings up at the surplus shop for a laugh.


----------



## LewisDias

Hello again friends.
Well this time, my question is about a quilted jacket.
I saw a Barbour on sale, and it can be a good deal.
Just wondered if this is a good coat to wear almost daily casually on those mild days, neither cold nor hot ..
Will it look good to wear it in town with some jeans or chinos and a shirt or sweater?


----------



## Peak and Pine

LewisDias said:


> Hello again friends.
> Well this time, my question is about a quilted jacket.
> I saw a Barbour on sale, and it can be a good deal.
> Just wondered if this is a good coat to wear almost daily casually on those mild days, neither cold nor hot ..
> Will it look good to wear it in town with some jeans or chinos and a shirt or sweater?


YES to all your questions.
Plus YES to one you didn't ask...
"Does this look like I'm wearing just the lining?"


----------



## LewisDias

Well, I really like the jacket and the photos look good, but one person inside barbour told me that they are very thin and fragile, not recommended.
These are not made in england like wax coats.


----------



## TimF

LewisDias said:


> Well, I really like the jacket and the photos look good, but one person inside barbour told me that they are very thin and fragile, not recommended.
> These are not made in england like wax coats.


A couple of years ago Barbour made a quilted jacket out of cotton moleskin. That was quite good. Maybe ask if they plan to bring it back? Otherwise your option is used from eBay.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

If the jacket you are considering is the Chelsea, there are lots of reviews on Orvis’ website. I’d check it out more thoroughly before dismissing it.


----------



## LewisDias

About sweaters what do you think about these heavy cotton sweaters?


Is it suitable for fall / winter wear casually under a barbour jacket?
Or should I opt for traditional, thinner silk or pima cotton sweaters?


----------



## Fading Fast

For the fall/winter, I think a heavy cotton is better than a thinner-cotton or silk one as those latter types say summer sweater to me. Chucky cotton sweaters can carry on past summer into early fall and pick up duty again in late spring.

To be sure, a heavy cotton sweater with a dark color - think a cable-knit navy blue sweater - can work in the dead of winter if, to your eye, it says winter and is consistent with the rest of the outfit.

As to layering, if you want something thin in the fall/winter months, I'd go with a fine merino wool as the wool still says fall/winter despite being smoother and thinner. Also, over the last decade or so, a lot of thinner (and less-expensive) cashmere sweaters have come to market, which are nice winter layering options.

Last thought, since a Barbour is a "rough" textured jacket, a chucky cotton or thicker/cable knit sweater of any material will usually look better with it than a very fine or smooth one. But again, if you want a thin sweater with a Barbour, I'd go with merino wool or thinner cashmere as the wool will harmonize better with the Barbour than a silk or pima cotton one.

Just my thoughts - hope they help.


----------



## New Old Stock

Cotton sweaters look good in stores. And when blended with cashmere (a whole 5%, wow!), people really feel like theyre getting a bargain since the sweaters are usually much cheaper than their wool cousins. But in my experience, these things lose their shape the minute you wash them - especially the heavier "winter" versions. Better off looking for a wool-nylon blend like the LLB Norwegian.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

In Austin, where it is very rarely cool enough for a sweater, I find Shetlands the better choice. They aren’t nearly as warm as lambswool or cashmere.


----------



## LewisDias

New Old Stock said:


> Cotton sweaters look good in stores. And when blended with cashmere (a whole 5%, wow!), people really feel like theyre getting a bargain since the sweaters are usually much cheaper than their wool cousins. But in my experience, these things lose their shape the minute you wash them - especially the heavier "winter" versions. Better off looking for a wool-nylon blend like the LLB Norwegian.


You're absolutely right.
I had one of the hilfiguer just like the one I posted, it didn't last long until it was deformed and the fabric widened greatly with use.
And for the price they cost, I already lost all the desire to buy it ..


----------



## GregorSamsa

Lands End makes a great thickish all cotton sweater. "Drifter" is the name, I think. I've got two crew necks and a cardigan. All have kept their shape and color and can be had cheap when on sale.


----------



## LukeRoz

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this duffel coat? Looking to finally pull the trigger on one....


----------



## August West

LukeRoz said:


> Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this duffel coat? Looking to finally pull the trigger on one....


Use the search feature of this forum, and you'll find a lot of good information on the Gloverall Duffle. I have one, and love it. I'm not familiar with the merchant (yoox), but a quick google search shows less than stellar reviews. Caveat emptor!


----------



## LukeRoz

August West said:


> Use the search feature of this forum, and you'll find a lot of good information on the Gloverall Duffle. I have one, and love it. I'm not familiar with the merchant (yoox), but a quick google search shows less than stellar reviews. Caveat emptor!


Thanks! I couldn't find the model name/number on the site so it made my search harder. Was hoping someone bought from there or could identify it based on looks.


----------



## August West

^^ Based on the relative lack of photos and very scant website description, I'm not sure it's possible to know exactly what that item is. Here's the real thing https://www.oconnellsclothing.com/Original-Gloverall-Duffle-Coat-Navy-512C.html

Note that the one you listed has alpha sizing.


----------



## LukeRoz

August West said:


> ^^ Based on the relative lack of photos and very scant website description, I'm not sure it's possible to know exactly what that item is. Here's the real thing https://www.oconnellsclothing.com/Original-Gloverall-Duffle-Coat-Navy-512C.html
> 
> Note that the one you listed has alpha sizing.


I noticed that as well. The O'Connells one also is 10% more wool. I had a coupon so for $200 ill decide if its suitable when it arrives. Thanks again for the help.


----------



## LukeRoz

Just wondering how versatile the grey herringbone sportcoat is in a trad wardrobe? Specifically looking at the following. Is it an essential?


----------



## Oldsport

LukeRoz said:


> Just wondering how versatile the grey herringbone sportcoat is in a trad wardrobe? Specifically looking at the following. Is it an essential?


You are joking, right?


----------



## Fading Fast

LukeRoz said:


> Just wondering how versatile the grey herringbone sportcoat is in a trad wardrobe? Specifically looking at the following. Is it an essential?


A topic that comes up regularly here at AAAC and, as the world's biggest advocate for the gray herringbone sport coat, I have posted several versions of an answer to your question:

 #16 

 #7 

 #3 

 #16


----------



## LukeRoz

Thanks! I ended up trying one from ebay (Chaps $40) before i jump into the BB version. Just to make sure it gets enough regular use.


----------



## LukeRoz

LukeRoz said:


> I noticed that as well. The O'Connells one also is 10% more wool. I had a coupon so for $200 ill decide if its suitable when it arrives. Thanks again for the help.


Can anyone provide some insight as to how heavy these coats typically are? Mine arrived and although it fits well i was expecting it to be much heavier. i would say its as thick, maybe slightly thicker, than my surplus peacoat....


----------



## Virtue Aesthetics

thoughts on charcoal birdseye for suits?


----------



## Fading Fast

Virtue Aesthetics said:


> thoughts on charcoal birdseye for suits?


Big fan. I like grey/charcoal suits and using a birdseye material brings some variation and subtle complexity to the standard grey one. Also, they tend to avoid wrinkles and make for good travel suits.


----------



## PreppyRepublican

Is it acceptable to wear kiltie tassel loafers with a sportcoat and tie?


----------



## Oldsport

I would wear that combination.


----------



## Fading Fast

PreppyRepublican said:


> Is it acceptable to wear kiltie tassel loafers with a sportcoat and tie?


Yes.


----------



## eagle2250

Indeed I would, but alas, my last pair of Kiltie Loafers made that infamous walk of shame to the Goodwill Store quite some months ago! So I shan't because I can't.


----------



## PreppyRepublican

Oldsport said:


> I would wear that combination.





Fading Fast said:


> Yes.





eagle2250 said:


> Indeed I would, but alas, my last pair of Kiltie Loafers made that infamous walk of shame to the Goodwill Store quite some months ago! So I shan't because I can't.


Thank you guys. I was worried that the shoes would be too casual.


----------



## Corcovado

Is there a U.S./North American retailer for North Sea Clothing Company? In the past I purchased one of their sweaters from the retailer Unionmade, but Unionmade has gone out of business.


----------



## Fading Fast

Corcovado said:


> Is there a U.S./North American retailer for North Sea Clothing Company? In the past I purchased one of their sweaters from the retailer Unionmade, but Unionmade has gone out of business.


Unionmade was the only one I was aware of. J.Crew partnered with NSCC for a one-off sweater a year or so ago, but J.Crew does not carry the line.

I'd shoot NSCC an email as I've found them to be very responsive. If you are considering buying direct, I can tell you my experience with the company - I've bought several sweaters from them - has been great.


----------



## Louie Louie

Hello! Is anyone familiar with older Brooks Bros tags that read something like "16 L.S." as opposed to "16 R"? I'm not sure if this simply means "long sleeve" (which would seem pretty pointless to note) or if it's the equivalent of "long" like on a sports jacket.


----------



## NateNash

Hey Trad Dads - Is there such a thing as a trad diaper bag? I imagine there might be some bags that may have been built for another purpose but doubles well.


----------



## eagle2250

LOL. Repurpose an old, well worn, large messenger bag as a more manly and certainly more Tradly diaper bag. Now we older Dads simply didn't have to concern ourselves with such, as changing diapers was considered women's work! :hidden:


----------



## Oldsport

NateNash said:


> Hey Trad Dads - Is there such a thing as a trad diaper bag? I imagine there might be some bags that may have been built for another purpose but doubles well.


I'd just get an LL Bean tote...


----------



## Yates

NateNash said:


> Hey Trad Dads - Is there such a thing as a trad diaper bag? I imagine there might be some bags that may have been built for another purpose but doubles well.





Oldsport said:


> I'd just get an LL Bean tote...


Yes. I used a medium LL Bean tote with long handles and a zip top. Have it embroidered with your child's initials and it will go off to college with them.

The most important part of the diaper bag, I found, was packing cubes (and gallon ziploc bags) inside to manage everything the little one needs.


----------



## NateNash

Yates said:


> Yes. I used a medium LL Bean tote with long handles and a zip top. Have it embroidered with your child's initials and it will go off to college with them.
> 
> The most important part of the diaper bag, I found, was packing cubes (and gallon ziploc bags) inside to manage everything the little one needs.


Thanks all! Have my first one on the way and trying to find a practical, but not ugly solution.


----------



## New Old Stock

Shot in the dark here - does anyone recall if shoes go on sale for 40%+15% during Brooks Bros Dec 26th sale? Specifically, the Peal patent leathers...
Thanks


----------



## Virtue Aesthetics

Thoughts on 100% silk slacks?


----------



## Fading Fast

Virtue Aesthetics said:


> Thoughts on 100% silk slacks?


I've never had or (I think) seen a pair. Other than ties, most items I've seen that have silk in them are blends - silk with wool, cotton or linen or some combination of those.

My assumption - never thought that much about it 'till your question - is that silk is too "fine" to be the only material in pants, a suit, etc., so it is usually blended with more substantial materials when used in those type of items to provide structure, drape and durability.

That said, many AAAC members like @Matt S know a lot more about this than I do, so hopefully they'll post as well.


----------



## Oldsport

Men don't wear 'slacks.' And, men don't wear 'silk slacks.'


----------



## Virtue Aesthetics

Oldsport said:


> Men don't wear 'slacks.' And, men don't wear 'silk slacks.'


LOL... fine, silk *trousers


----------



## Matt S

Fading Fast said:


> I've never had or (I think) seen a pair. Other than ties, most items I've seen that have silk in them are blends - silk with wool, cotton or linen or some combination of those.
> 
> My assumption - never thought that much about it 'till your question - is that silk is too "fine" to be the only material in pants, a suit, etc., so it is usually blended with more substantial materials when used in those type of items to provide structure, drape and durability.
> 
> That said, many AAAC members like @Matt S know a lot more about this than I do, so hopefully they'll post as well.


There are definitely 100% silk trousers, as well as 100% silk suits. I had a pair of silk trousers that were quite heavy, not fine at all. Silk can drape very nicely. But I don't recommend it because it is delicate.


----------



## Fading Fast

Matt S said:


> There are definitely 100% silk trousers, as well as 100% silk suits. I had a pair of silk trousers that were quite heavy, not fine at all. Silk can drape very nicely. But I don't recommend it because it is delicate.


Thank you. Only after your post, it jarred my memory, did I remember an "old timer" at work in the '80s who wore an all-silk slub suit in the summer - it was heavy as heck, but as you note, draped nicely.


----------



## August West

New Old Stock said:


> Shot in the dark here - does anyone recall if shoes go on sale for 40%+15% during Brooks Bros Dec 26th sale? Specifically, the Peal patent leathers...
> Thanks


In years past, Brooks used to temporarily remove some shoes from the website just prior to a sale. The unlined cordovan loafers being one such example.

The workaround would be to put the shoes in your cart prior to the item being removed from the site. I have not tried this tactic anytime in the last few years though. It's possible Brooks may now have a more sophisticated means to exclude items from sales. I'd say it's worth a try.


----------



## Matt S

Fading Fast said:


> Thank you. Only after your post, it jarred my memory, did I remember an "old timer" at work in the '80s who wore an all-silk slub suit in the summer - it was heavy as heck, but as you note, draped nicely.


Silk comes in many forms. I love the look of Roger Moore's James Bond's many shiny and slubby dupioni silk suits. The trousers I was talking about had a smooth texture with a dull sheen. I think I still have them in the back of my closet, but I lost weight shortly after I got them and now they're much too big.


----------



## August West

New Old Stock said:


> Shot in the dark here - does anyone recall if shoes go on sale for 40%+15% during Brooks Bros Dec 26th sale? Specifically, the Peal patent leathers...
> Thanks


shoes are 40% off at Brooks today only. Not sure if that stacks with the corporate discount, but my guess is no.


----------



## New Old Stock

Unfortunately the shoes I had my eye on aren't included in todays sale. 

On a related note, what are the forums feelings on black velvet slippers worn with a tuxedo?
Anyone know who makes the Brooks versions? Can anyone comment on their fit & finish?
They appear to have a very square toe...


----------



## Roboyle

I recently picked up a J. Press suit on Ebay. Unfortunately, it's a 42L and I'm more of a 41/42R. I'm trying to determine if it's worth taking to a tailor, here's my holdup: 

Assuming all else can be tailored well, how low is it acceptable for the bottom button to be? The top (functional) button is about 1.5 inches above my navel, which I think is good, but the bottom button is slightly below the waistline of the pants (which also have a very high rise). 

I'm thinking about posting photos later to get more information about all the possible alterations I'm considering. Thanks!


----------



## Charles Dana

Roboyle said:


> I recently picked up a J. Press suit on Ebay. Unfortunately, it's a 42L and I'm more of a 41/42R. I'm trying to determine if it's worth taking to a tailor, here's my holdup:
> 
> Assuming all else can be tailored well, how low is it acceptable for the bottom button to be? The top (functional) button is about 1.5 inches above my navel, which I think is good, but the bottom button is slightly below the waistline of the pants (which also have a very high rise).
> 
> I'm thinking about posting photos later to get more information about all the possible alterations I'm considering. Thanks!


Yes--Please post photos. We'll need to see how the suit looks on you in order to give you advice that is worth anything. What's "acceptable"? Objective "rules" are useful only up to a point; ultimately, the answer is determined by how something looks on you and only you.


----------



## LewisDias

Desert boots sand suede made in italy, good buy or not, for dry winter days?


----------



## Fading Fast

LewisDias said:


> Desert boots sand suede made in italy, good buy or not, for dry winter days?


Since mine are unlined, I wear them with a heavy sock and think they look great and do well on DRY winter days.

In the winter, I'll wear them with jeans, cords or chinos.

I do have a pair of fleece-lined ones that I wear on really, really cold days.

I like the look of the ones you showed - whose are they?


----------



## LewisDias

Fading Fast said:


> Since mine are unlined, I wear them with a heavy sock and think they look great and do well on DRY winter days.
> 
> In the winter, I'll wear them with jeans, cords or chinos.
> 
> I do have a pair of fleece-lined ones that I wear on really, really cold days.
> 
> I like the look of the ones you showed - whose are they?


I already have some in Besswax but they are made in Vietnam.
I found these at a local store here in Lisbon, and noticed they were made in italy and liked the color for cold sunny days.
The model is clarks desert boots


----------



## Fading Fast

LewisDias said:


> I already have some in Besswax but they are made in Vietnam.
> I found these at a local store here in Lisbon, and noticed they were made in italy and liked the color for cold sunny days.
> The model is clarks desert boots


I love to wear mine in the winter, like you, in part, because of the color.

Good luck - I think you'll enjoy them.


----------



## LewisDias

It is normal in the store I like a lot of boots, find beautiful, but then when I try them on the foot and look in the mirror do not like anything?
It seems strange, too big and clumsy when I see them in the mirror, in this case the desert boots sand that I posted on top ...
I was undecided at the store but I didn't buy them.


----------



## Fading Fast

LewisDias said:


> It is normal in the store I like a lot of boots, find beautiful, but then when I try them on the foot and look in the mirror do not like anything?
> It seems strange, too big and clumsy when I see them in the mirror, in this case the desert boots sand that I posted on top ...
> I was undecided at the store but I didn't buy them.


It seems that you don't like the look of them on your foot. That might be because you are not use to them, so, if the price isn't too painful for your budget, you might just have to take the plunge, buy them and see what you think after you wear them a bunch of times.

Sometime that works well and you end up loving the item and sometimes it doesn't and, to be honest, the money is wasted. For some things, the only way to learn is through trial and error.


----------



## LewisDias

Fading Fast said:


> It seems that you don't like the look of them on your foot. That might be because you are not use to them, so, if the price isn't too painful for your budget, you might just have to take the plunge, buy them and see what you think after you wear them a bunch of times.
> 
> Sometime that works well and you end up loving the item and sometimes it doesn't and, to be honest, the money is wasted. For some things, the only way to learn is through trial and error.


That's right, I find them very pretty in the shop window and my hand, but the foot looks weird, as I'm a skinny guy and average height, the boots seem to get too big on me and get too prominent, maybe clarks make it too conventional , for me and my style.


----------



## eagle2250

LewisDias said:


> That's right, I find them very pretty in the shop window and my hand, but the foot looks weird, as I'm a skinny guy and average height, the boots seem to get too big on me and get too prominent, maybe clarks make it too conventional , for me and my style.


Fading Fast is spot on with his advice in post # 7041..."buy them, wear them" and six months later you will be in love with them and be thinking of going out and buying a backup pair! Just a shot of straight talk from this local shoe/boot whore.


----------



## ran23

Brooks Bros Trad Fit, tends to fit my 15.5x33 like a tent. Nowhere else does it say any other type of fit. I spent $20 on it taking it in. Yesterday I got a blue pinstripe, same label and fit.


----------



## Fading Fast

ran23 said:


> Brooks Bros Trad Fit, tends to fit my 15.5x33 like a tent. Nowhere else does it say any other type of fit. I spent $20 on it taking it in. Yesterday I got a blue pinstripe, same label and fit.


I think this might help you (link to full article at bottom):

*Brooks Brothers shirt fit guide*
Brooks Brothers shirts have six different fits and updated their range in the summer of 2019. A fit guide describing the different fits is below.


Traditional Fit - Brooks Brothers' widest cut around the chest and waist. It's the widest available shirt I have found and is much larger than any other brand I have measured. Compared to the Regent Fit, the Traditional Fit is five inches larger in the chest and five inches larger in the waist. These shirts are 100% cotton.
Madison Fit (was called Regular). This shirt is still relatively wide compared to other brands. Compared to the Regent Fit, it is cut 2.5 inches wider around the chest and 3.25 inches wider through the waist.These shirts are 100% cotton.
Regent Fit (was called Slim Fit). The best selling Brooks Brothers fit, fitted through the chest and body.These shirts are 100% cotton.
Milano Fit (was called Extra Slim Fit) was the slimmest Brooks Brothers cut until the Soho arrived. Compared to the Regent Fit, this is 2.75 inches narrower through the chest and 1.5 inches slimmer through the waist.These shirts are 100% cotton.
Soho Fit - this was launched in the summer of 2019 and is now the slimmest of the Brooks Brothers range. Compared to the Regent Fit, this is 5 inches narrower through the chest and 5 inches narrower through the waist. These shirts are not 100% cotton. Instead they are 64% cotton, 32% coolmax polyester and 4% elastane.
Big and Tall - this range was also launched in the summer of 2019. The shirts are available in collar sizes from 16.5 inches to 20 inches. The shirts are cut a little slimmer than the Traditional Fit. These are 100% cotton.
https://www.shirtdetective.com/brooks-brothers-review/


----------



## ran23

Most Slim fits rarely fit my 160 lbs, 34" waist, 5-7.25 frame. 38-s jacket. I'll see if I can find a Regent and Madison to try. thanks


----------



## Guest

ran23 said:


> Most Slim fits rarely fit my 160 lbs, 34" waist, 5-7.25 frame. 38-s jacket. I'll see if I can find a Regent and Madison to try. thanks


Don't waste time on Madison fir. Go for Tegent!


----------



## James U

AlanC said:


> Is this Trad? What does OCBD mean? No need to start a (new and possibly redundant) thread on it, just ask it here for a quick answer.
> 
> At the suggestion of one of our esteemed members we are starting this thread (in emulation of one in a forum far, far away) in hopes of encouraging newbies (or even forum veterans) to ask questions in good faith and get good faith answers. That means no intentionally goofball questions and give actual serious answers.


----------



## James U

Hello from Australia, my name is James and I am a fan of traditional US tailoring. I have my eye on a Pendleton tweed jacket, which is a western style, with a suede shoulder yoke. Does anyone know if this an be unpicked and removed(I have a good tailor) and if so, is the fabric underneath the same as the rest of the garment, I am guessing it is. I think one issue might be the material underneath the yoke maybe a slightly different shade, given it wasn't exposed to the light and wear. Any thoughts, Thankyou James.


----------



## eagle2250

James U said:


> Hello from Australia, my name is James and I am a fan of traditional US tailoring. I have my eye on a Pendleton tweed jacket, which is a western style, with a suede shoulder yoke. Does anyone know if this an be unpicked and removed(I have a good tailor) and if so, is the fabric underneath the same as the rest of the garment, I am guessing it is. I think one issue might be the material underneath the yoke maybe a slightly different shade, given it wasn't exposed to the light and wear. Any thoughts, Thankyou James.


My advice would be to pass on the purchase of the shirt, if you can't live with the yoke. I don't care how good the tailor is, removing the yoke is going to show! Sorry.


----------



## James U

Thanks, good advice.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
You are very welcome. Good luck in your hunt! 

Our prayers are with Australia, as your Country so heroically fights to control those fires!


----------



## James U

Thankyou, things are settling down a little, we have had some rain.


----------



## LewisDias

in your opinion what will change in the style and look of each collar of these jackets?
harrington turtleneck, or normal windbraker?


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Would like to help you, but not sure I understand your question. If you could, perhaps, rephrase it?


----------



## LewisDias

ok, basically which one would look better in a casual style but that you can wear regularly with a chino and v neck sweater?
is it true that harrington has a connotation of people linked to the extreme right / nazis?


----------



## New Old Stock

LewisDias said:


> in your opinion what will change in the style and look of each collar of these jackets?
> harrington turtleneck, or normal windbraker?


They wear the same, the collar style is completely up to you. Unless youre wearing a harrington with nazi symbols I wouldnt worry about it. Any article of clothing can have a negative connotation to someone somewhere.

Though if you plan to pair it with chinos, I would avoid tan. This assumes your chinos are a similar color. Ive heard of the 'Canadian tuxedo' with denim jacket over jeans, what kind of 'tuxedo' is khaki over khaki?


----------



## Fading Fast

LewisDias said:


> ok, basically which one would look better in a casual style but that you can wear regularly with a chino and v neck sweater?
> is it true that harrington has a connotation of people linked to the extreme right / nazis?


To your first question, either would be fine worn regularly with chinos and a v-neck sweater. They both have a similar level of casualness. You should choose based on which ever one you prefer as both jackets really serve the same purpose in a wardrobe

The Harrington has a long history of being a jacket worn by the general public - and certainly got a boost when worn by stars such as Steve McQueen. I have no idea if it has any meaning on the extreme right, but it is, again, a jacket that has been and still is worn by the general public.


----------



## LewisDias

As for color, will tan be a good choice or should I go with the navy?

I like tan to wear with jeans or blue chinos but I don't know why this color reminds me of older men


----------



## Phogi

I thrifted some new Alan Flusser seersucker pants, the typical white and light blue vertical stripes. The pants are great...but what do you wear with this? I was thinking a dark solid turtleneck?


----------



## Fading Fast

Phogi said:


> I thrifted some new Alan Flusser seersucker pants, the typical white and light blue vertical stripes. The pants are great...but what do you wear with this? I was thinking a dark solid turtleneck?


Since they are lightweight and, usually, worn in warm weather, a turtleneck might prove too heavy. I usually just wear a white or navy polo shirt or regular button-front linen shirt (white or blue) with mine.


----------



## LewisDias

Hello.
Summer is coming and I want to buy a new jacket for this season.
A versatile jacket to wear in the spring and some summer nights, what will be the best choice? a bi swing windbreaker or a poplin jacket?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I am not sure there would be much of a difference, if any. Go with your gut/follow your heart on this one and you will not go wrong!


----------



## Eligius

This question is not specifically “trad”, but it involves a J Press suit, and there is no similar sticky thread on the fashion forum...

I was wondering opinions on wearing a tan suit for an early evening event in July. It’s a happy socially distanced ceremony in a church and will be from 5:30-6:30, over and gone before sunset. Is this a fashion faux pas? The suit is 12 years old but barely worn, and I’ve been looking for a chance to break it out again.


----------



## Charles Dana

Eligius said:


> I was wondering opinions on wearing a tan suit for an early evening event in July. It's a happy socially distanced ceremony in a church and will be from 5:30-6:30, over and gone before sunset. Is this a fashion faux pas? The suit is 12 years old but barely worn, and I've been looking for a chance to break it out again.


What is the ceremony? Do you know the other men who will be there? If you do, are they the "dress-up" type?


----------



## Peak and Pine

Eligius said:


> I was wondering opinions on wearing a tan suit for an early evening event in July. It's a happy socially distanced ceremony in a church.





Charles Dana said:


> What is the ceremony? Do you know the other men who will be there? If you do, are they the "dress-up" type?


I think the question may be about the color. And the hour worn. If so, tan in warm weather daylight (in tropic wool, cotton, blends and linen) are pretty much standard fare for dress-up among a certain set here in New England, the dwindling set who gives a damn.


----------



## OldMetairie

Eligius said:


> This question is not specifically "trad", but it involves a J Press suit, and there is no similar sticky thread on the fashion forum...
> 
> I was wondering opinions on wearing a tan suit for an early evening event in July. It's a happy socially distanced ceremony in a church and will be from 5:30-6:30, over and gone before sunset. Is this a fashion faux pas? The suit is 12 years old but barely worn, and I've been looking for a chance to break it out again.


Simply answer no this would not be a faux pas imho.


----------



## Eligius

Yes, I was wondering about the color at that time of day. It's tropical wool, should be very warm and still light out. Thank you all so much for your responses.


----------



## GregorSamsa

Any recommendations for mostly cotton socks in colors like dark green? I’d like to expand my color options beyond black and blue but don’t know where to turn.


----------



## Fading Fast

GregorSamsa said:


> Any recommendations for mostly cotton socks in colors like dark green? I'd like to expand my color options beyond black and blue but don't know where to turn.


For dress socks, it's been awhile as I bought a lot years ago and now with WFH (I've done that for years) and biz casual, I rarely wear them, but I used to like Brooks Brothers for dress socks: https://www.brooksbrothers.com/mens/underwear-socks/0226,default,sc.html?lid=leftnav-menu

You might also check out J.Press https://jpressonline.com/collections/underwear-socks

And, only on sale, Ben Silver and Paul Stuart have some fantastic socks:
https://www.bensilver.com/Socks.html

https://www.paulstuart.com/mens/accessories/socks

For casual, I like https://www.wigwam.com love the "Cypress" model

For working out / hiking, I like https://www.smartwool.com/shop/mens-wool-socks-1

I also like LL Bean socks: https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/502...VdQiICR1dSQRjEAAYAiAAEgI_i_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## GregorSamsa

Thank you for that very helpful reply. I have never really put much thought into socks before now—never paid anything close to north of $20 per pair—but after looking at Press and Ben Silver I am tempted. I saw O’Connell’s has some all cotton socks in a similar price range too. It looks like I’ll have to pay up for these colors and high cotton percentage.


----------



## Fading Fast

GregorSamsa said:


> Thank you for that very helpful reply. I have never really put much thought into socks before now-never paid anything close to north of $20 per pair-but after looking at Press and Ben Silver I am tempted. I saw O'Connell's has some all cotton socks in a similar price range too. It looks like I'll have to pay up for these colors and high cotton percentage.


It's been awhile since I've bought socks as I kept "stocking up" at sales till I discovered that I owned way too many. But other than the, like you, sub $20 (or there about) socks, I would buy my socks on sale. Good luck.


----------



## never behind

GregorSamsa said:


> Thank you for that very helpful reply. I have never really put much thought into socks before now-never paid anything close to north of $20 per pair-but after looking at Press and Ben Silver I am tempted. I saw O'Connell's has some all cotton socks in a similar price range too. It looks like I'll have to pay up for these colors and high cotton percentage.


You might look at Dapper Classics. I've bought a couple pair from them and found the socks to be acceptable. They have an insane number of options.


----------



## August West

GregorSamsa said:


> Any recommendations for mostly cotton socks in colors like dark green? I'd like to expand my color options beyond black and blue but don't know where to turn.


I have had very good recent experience with Banana Republic socks. Sales are perpetual, so you need not pay anything close to full freight.

Up until several years ago I bought all of my socks from Brooks without a second thought. The quality became so inconsistent I gave up.


----------



## fishertw

Eligius said:


> Yes, I was wondering about the color at that time of day. It's tropical wool, should be very warm and still light out. Thank you all so much for your responses.


These days if you show upon a suit it is an utmost sign of respect for the event. My bet is that most will not.


----------



## ztrad5

Hi all,
Just discovered this great forum. 
I am building my trad wardrobe.
So far I have a J Press Navy Blazer and some Brooks Brother's OCBDs. 
Is the next acquisition a Camel Hair Sportcoat or a Tweed Sportcoat? 
For Tweed, what is the one staple piece, the gray herringbone pattern?
Also, I noticed most of the sack suits are cut too generously for my frame. Do you recommend trying to find a trim fit on J Press or just sizing one down?
Thanks!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

ztrad5 said:


> Hi all,
> Just discovered this great forum.
> I am building my trad wardrobe.
> So far I have a J Press Navy Blazer and some Brooks Brother's OCBDs.
> Is the next acquisition a Camel Hair Sportcoat or a Tweed Sportcoat?
> For Tweed, what is the one staple piece, the gray herringbone pattern?
> Also, I noticed most of the sack suits are cut too generously for my frame. Do you recommend trying to find a trim fit on J Press or just sizing one down?
> Thanks!


IMO after snagging a NBB (Navy blue blazer) I would go for tweed next. Grey herringbone is far and away the most popular choice, but I would not feel constrained by it. If you see a glen plaid or olive herringbone or tan barleycorn you like a lot, go for it.

As regards slight builds and sack suits, the combination is a stylistic departure for some, but to a Trad of the TNSIL (traditional natural shoulder ivy league) sort, it is a lovely combination.


----------



## Fading Fast

ztrad5 said:


> Hi all,
> Just discovered this great forum.
> I am building my trad wardrobe.
> So far I have a J Press Navy Blazer and some Brooks Brother's OCBDs.
> Is the next acquisition a Camel Hair Sportcoat or a Tweed Sportcoat?
> For Tweed, what is the one staple piece, the gray herringbone pattern?
> Also, I noticed most of the sack suits are cut too generously for my frame. Do you recommend trying to find a trim fit on J Press or just sizing one down?
> Thanks!


Hi and welcome.

There are no absolute right answers to your questions, but here are my thoughts.

As to your next sport coat, I'd go with a herringbone tweed in grey as I find it to be almost as versatile as - and a nice compliment to - the navy blazer. To be sure, if your wardrobe leans heavily to earth tones, you might prefer a brown or tan herringbone tweed, but the grey really covers a lot of ground.

I'm tall and thin and, like you, prefer a more fitted look than the classic sack cut as the sack can look too big on me. @TKI67 is correct that part of it is getting used to a different fit, but still, my frame (and maybe yours) is not the best for a sack.

What I've done is, first, always make sure the jacket fits properly in the shoulder; otherwise, it will never really look well tailored. Second, a good tailor can "trim" the silhouette of a sack a bit, so that might be enough for you. Hence, I'd be really careful about "sizing down" as the driver of your decision when purchasing a sport coat or suit jacket should be if the shoulders fit and if it's long enough as those things, basically, can't be adjusted.

Another approach, which I take because it greatly increases my options, is to go with any sport coat that has near natural shoulders and not worry about it being a sack. If most of its features are classic sport coat, then the darts don't bother me and I get a much better fit.

In our internet age, until you find the manufacturer and fit that works for you, I suggest, where possible, going in person as stores like Press, at least the NYC one, will honestly tell you if something can be altered to fit. Of course, you can always order online, take it to a trusted tailor and return if he says it's a no go.

I know in years past, Press has had a trim fit sport coat, but I didn't see it in this year's sport coat offerings. If you want to do something inexpensive just to get started, J.Crew offers some nice natural shoulder (but darted and double vented) sport coats for very reasonable prices (especially on one of its regular sales). I own several and, while they are not as nice as the Press, Polo or O'Connell's ones, for example, for the money, they are great "knock around" sport coats.

Good luck, glad you've joined our forum.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

ztrad5 said:


> Hi all,
> Just discovered this great forum.
> I am building my trad wardrobe.
> So far I have a J Press Navy Blazer and some Brooks Brother's OCBDs.
> Is the next acquisition a Camel Hair Sportcoat or a Tweed Sportcoat?
> For Tweed, what is the one staple piece, the gray herringbone pattern?
> Also, I noticed most of the sack suits are cut too generously for my frame. Do you recommend trying to find a trim fit on J Press or just sizing one down?
> Thanks!


Oh, and welcome aboard!!!


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Hi and welcome.
> 
> Another approach, which I take because it greatly increases my options, is to go with any sport coat that has near natural shoulders and not worry about it being a sack. If most of its features are classic sport coat, then the darts don't bother me and I get a much better fit.


IMHO, the shoulders are key. There are a lot of coats that have very natural shoulders that are subtly darted. For me, the darts are not a deal breaker. However, pleated pants are always a deal breaker.


----------



## ztrad5

Fading Fast said:


> Hi and welcome.
> 
> There are no absolute right answers to your questions, but here are my thoughts.
> 
> As to your next sport coat, I'd go with a herringbone tweed in grey as I find it to be almost as versatile as - and a nice compliment to - the navy blazer. To be sure, if your wardrobe leans heavily to earth tones, you might prefer a brown or tan herringbone tweed, but the grey really covers a lot of ground.
> 
> I'm tall and thin and, like you, prefer a more fitted look than the classic sack cut as the sack can look too big on me. @TKI67 is correct that part of it is getting used to a different fit, but still, my frame (and maybe yours) is not the best for a sack.
> 
> What I've done is, first, always make sure the jacket fits properly in the shoulder; otherwise, it will never really look well tailored. Second, a good tailor can "trim" the silhouette of a sack a bit, so that might be enough for you. Hence, I'd be really careful about "sizing down" as the driver of your decision when purchasing a sport coat or suit jacket should be if the shoulders fit and if it's long enough as those things, basically, can't be adjusted.
> 
> Another approach, which I take because it greatly increases my options, is to go with any sport coat that has near natural shoulders and not worry about it being a sack. If most of its features are classic sport coat, then the darts don't bother me and I get a much better fit.
> 
> In our internet age, until you find the manufacturer and fit that works for you, I suggest, where possible, going in person as stores like Press, at least the NYC one, will honestly tell you if something can be altered to fit. Of course, you can always order online, take it to a trusted tailor and return if he says it's a no go.
> 
> I know in years past, Press has had a trim fit sport coat, but I didn't see it in this year's sport coat offerings. If you want to do something inexpensive just to get started, J.Crew offers some nice natural shoulder (but darted and double vented) sport coats for very reasonable prices (especially on one of its regular sales). I own several and, while they are not as nice as the Press, Polo or O'Connell's ones, for example, for the money, they are great "knock around" sport coats.
> 
> Good luck, glad you've joined our forum.


Thanks so much for everyone's warm welcome and advice.

We must have very similar frames based on your comments. I tried the J Press trim fit 36 and it was too narrow in the shoulders. The 38 trim fit was great in the shoulders but the non-darted sack part was too big. I had a tailor narrow the body down a bit like you suggested and it now fits great. I wish J Press had a bigger supply of 38 trim fit...I think I'm going to have to continue to go with Suit Supply since they fit great without any need for tailoring. Anyone know if O'Connell's carries a trim fit? Otherwise, I think it's just J Press trim fit and Brook Brothers Milano cut. I tried the Fitzgerald but it was too big.


----------



## never behind

ztrad5 said:


> Thanks so much for everyone's warm welcome and advice.
> 
> We must have very similar frames based on your comments. I tried the J Press trim fit 36 and it was too narrow in the shoulders. The 38 trim fit was great in the shoulders but the non-darted sack part was too big. I had a tailor narrow the body down a bit like you suggested and it now fits great. I wish J Press had a bigger supply of 38 trim fit...I think I'm going to have to continue to go with Suit Supply since they fit great without any need for tailoring. Anyone know if O'Connell's carries a trim fit? Otherwise, I think it's just J Press trim fit and Brook Brothers Milano cut. I tried the Fitzgerald but it was too big.


I don't ever recall seeing trim fit sport coats at O'Connell's. Only thing I can recall in trim fit are some polos.


----------



## HanEyeAm

Anyone know of Oakmont menswear? I assume it was exclusively for Thalhimers. I thrifted what I think is a half-lined, felted wool blazer and would like more info on the construction.


----------



## ztrad5

never behind said:


> I don't ever recall seeing trim fit sport coats at O'Connell's. Only thing I can recall in trim fit are some polos.


I do see some 37R sizes on O'Connell's which is unique - do you think this may be a good compromise as a trim fit 38R? Otherwise, I am going to have to go MTM at Drinkwater's in Cambridge.


----------



## never behind

ztrad5 said:


> I do see some 37R sizes on O'Connell's which is unique - do you think this may be a good compromise as a trim fit 38R? Otherwise, I am going to have to go MTM at Drinkwater's in Cambridge.


Possibly. My advice would be to call O'Connell's. They are great and can provide measurements to help you determine if it would work.


----------



## Mike B

ztrad5 said:


> I do see some 37R sizes on O'Connell's which is unique - do you think this may be a good compromise as a trim fit 38R? Otherwise, I am going to have to go MTM at Drinkwater's in Cambridge.


As a public service, here at the measurements of my 37R O'Connell's blazer (made by Hardwick).

O'Connell's Classic navy blazer (37R)

Shoulder 17.5"

Chest 20.75"

Waist 19.5" (no taper)

Sleeve 24.75"

Length (BOC) 29.75" (from collar bottom not from collar seam)

Lapel 3.5"

I'm a tall, thin guy and this blazer is a nice (but slightly loose) fit. I think my best fit is a 37R jacket but I can get away with 36R or 38R depending on the brand and cut.

Amazingly I did not have this jacket altered at all (not even the sleeves!) and am happy with the fit. As I comment above, there is very little taper in the waist but that would be an easy adjustment.


----------



## Fading Fast

Mike B said:


> As a public service, here at the measurements of my 37R O'Connell's blazer (made by Hardwick).
> 
> O'Connell's Classic navy blazer (37R)
> 
> Shoulder 17.5"
> 
> Chest 20.75"
> 
> Waist 19.5" (no taper)
> 
> Sleeve 24.75"
> 
> Length (BOC) 29.75" (from collar bottom not from collar seam)
> 
> Lapel 3.5"
> 
> I'm a tall, thin guy and this blazer is a nice (but slightly loose) fit. I think my best fit is a 37R jacket but I can get away with 36R or 38R depending on the brand and cut.
> 
> Amazingly I did not have this jacket altered at all (not even the sleeves!) and am happy with the fit. As I comment above, there is very little taper in the waist but that would be an easy adjustment.


It's very nice of you to post all this. I'm surprised a regular works for you as, usually, a tall person need a long cut. I've struggled with the same issue as the best overall fit for me is usually a 40L, but sometimes, if the jacket is cut large, a 39L would work better, but today, you rarely see 39Ls only 39Rs.


----------



## ztrad5

Thanks for posting those dimensions! My understanding is the # in front of the suit, such as 37, indicates a 37" circumference on the chest and then they add a couple inches for fit. Is 20.75" if you measure across the dimension of the jacket at the chest region rather than the circumference?


----------



## Mike B

ztrad5 said:


> My understanding is the # in front of the suit, such as 37, indicates a 37" circumference on the chest and then they add a couple inches for fit. Is 20.75" if you measure across the dimension of the jacket at the chest region rather than the circumference?


I measured across the front of the jacket to get 20.75".



Fading Fast said:


> It's very nice of you to post all this. I'm surprised a regular works for you as, usually, a tall person need a long cut. I've struggled with the same issue as the best overall fit for me is usually a 40L, but sometimes, if the jacket is cut large, a 39L would work better, but today, you rarely see 39Ls only 39Rs.


I've got narrow shoulders and chest so a 39 or 40 would be huge in both areas on me. For new OTR jackets I make a bit of a compromise in accepting a 'maybe not quite long enough' jacket in going with a 37 or 38 (most 36s are definitely too short).

I find that with vintage jackets the length is almost always appropriate for me in a size 38.


----------



## fishertw

ztrad5 said:


> Hi all,
> Just discovered this great forum.
> I am building my trad wardrobe.
> So far I have a J Press Navy Blazer and some Brooks Brother's OCBDs.
> Is the next acquisition a Camel Hair Sportcoat or a Tweed Sportcoat?
> For Tweed, what is the one staple piece, the gray herringbone pattern?
> Also, I noticed most of the sack suits are cut too generously for my frame. Do you recommend trying to find a trim fit on J Press or just sizing one down?
> Thanks!


At this time, with Southwick going out of business, and their 3/2 Douglas model being an iconic gray herringbone, I'd go in that direction before a camel hair. O'connells still had some recently as did Cable Car in San Francisco. Not discounted, but I was advised in August by Oconnells that they would not be getting any more. As for Camel, I've worn the Brooks 3/2 for years and am holding on to the one I have as they did not even show that model last year before they filed for bankruptcy. Who knows what a revived BB will look like.


----------



## DCarreira

Good morning gentleman.

I have recently purchased a pants and vest combo but the store did not had the matching jacket to make it a 3 piece suit and I am thinking about what would be the best options to complete the look. This is a pic of me wearing it and a couple close-ups so you can see the pattern and material. It's a kind of flannel, not very formal and suitable for autumn/winter.

As a base layer it would go well with any white or dark shirt. Maybe with a denim shirt?

I am thinking I can wear both pieces separately pairing the vest with jeans or dark blue/grey chinos.

When using the combo a black/navy pea coat would be a good option, especially because I would just hang it when I get to the office. But what if I do want/need to use with a jacket? What would be a good jacket to complement this outfit?

Please share your thoughts on how to make the best out of this pieces. Thank you.
https://ibb.co/pXJfQ49
https://ibb.co/R32xBYC
https://ibb.co/LRrMJhv


----------



## Guest

never behind said:


> Possibly. My advice would be to call O'Connell's. They are great and can provide measurements to help you determine if it would work.


Obtained the 36R and 37R Southwick grey herringbone tweed sportcoat made for O'Connell's. The 37R is perfect and it's such a beautiful sportcoat. Sending the 36R back. Thanks for all your help!


----------



## LewisDias

Hello everyone.
Does anyone here have experience with Barbour knits?
I am thinking of buying a Fair Isle from them, but I was wondering if they are of good quality or not.
On the label it says it is 100% lambswool supersoft, but it is not possible to see where it was made, it Seems that barbour wants to hide it


----------



## eagle2250

LewisDias said:


> Hello everyone.
> Does anyone here have experience with Barbour knits?
> I am thinking of buying a Fair Isle from them, but I was wondering if they are of good quality or not.
> On the label it says it is 100% lambswool supersoft, but it is not possible to see where it was made, it Seems that barbour wants to hide it


I've never been disappointed with the quality of Barbour purchases I have made, though I have not purchased any of their knitwear. However, my recommendation is take a chance. I'm pretty sure you will be happy with your purchase!


----------



## TimF

LewisDias said:


> Hello everyone.
> Does anyone here have experience with Barbour knits?
> I am thinking of buying a Fair Isle from them, but I was wondering if they are of good quality or not.
> On the label it says it is 100% lambswool supersoft, but it is not possible to see where it was made, it Seems that barbour wants to hide it


Looks rather slim fit. You'd also need to factor in how you plan on cleaning the sweater. If the answer is self-laundry with water, you'd need to factor in some shrinkage factor, which is likely with wool knits produced away from the reputable makers in UK/Scotland.


----------



## Eligius

LewisDias said:


> Hello everyone.
> Does anyone here have experience with Barbour knits?
> I am thinking of buying a Fair Isle from them, but I was wondering if they are of good quality or not.
> On the label it says it is 100% lambswool supersoft, but it is not possible to see where it was made, it Seems that barbour wants to hide it


I have a Barbour sweater that I bought somewhat randomly on a trip to Denver when it was much colder than I had expected in early Fall. It is styled like a simple fisherman's, and the material is rough and has raglan shoulders. It just says "100% wool" and is made in Turkey. I have really liked it and wear it often.


----------



## ztrad5

I have been enjoying the Made in USA OCBD from BB given the large discounts. However, I was wondering if these shirts are considered formal or dressed up enough for professional attire where the rest of the outfit is a suit? Are these more for casual wear with chinos or can they be worn with a suit? What do folks recommend for dress shirts when wearing a suit? Thanks!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

ztrad5 said:


> I have been enjoying the Made in USA OCBD from BB given the large discounts. However, I was wondering if these shirts are considered formal or dressed up enough for professional attire where the rest of the outfit is a suit? Are these more for casual wear with chinos or can they be worn with a suit? What do folks recommend for dress shirts when wearing a suit? Thanks!


I am sure times have changed (they always do), but for my career (1975-2019) I wore such shirts, usually blue but occasionally white, pink, or blue and white or pink and white university stripes, with grey or navy sack suits, Alden for Brooks tassels, and suitable ties, repp stripes with solid shirts and suits, neats or paisleys with striped shirts and solid suits or with solid shirts and striped or glen plaid suits. No one criticized me. If you want to dress up your look beyond that a white point collar shirt in broadcloth or pinpoint (French cuffs) looks pretty snazzy with a chalk stripe or solid navy suit and a foulard tie.


----------



## ztrad5

Thanks so much for the answer above. I'm more comfortable wearing the OCBD with my suits given your input.

Regarding shoes, I have a pair of AE McAllister wingtips in walnut brown, black Oxford captoe shoes, and dark brown Oxford captoe shoes. I am hoping to add a loafer. What do folks recommend for a first versatile loafer? Would you all recommend Alden burgundy cordovan tassel loafers, Gucci horsebit loafers in black with silver buckle (may be too flashy), or something else entirely?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

ztrad5 said:


> Thanks so much for the answer above. I'm more comfortable wearing the OCBD with my suits given your input.
> 
> Regarding shoes, I have a pair of AE McAllister wingtips in walnut brown, black Oxford captoe shoes, and dark brown Oxford captoe shoes. I am hoping to add a loafer. What do folks recommend for a first versatile loafer? Would you all recommend Alden burgundy cordovan tassel loafers, Gucci horsebit loafers in black with silver buckle (may be too flashy), or something else entirely?


In my decidedly TNSIL opinion, even though some would not even call it a dress shoe, the Alden tassel in color No. 8 is the all time best business dress shoe by a wide margin.


----------



## Charles Dana

ztrad5 said:


> I have been enjoying the Made in USA OCBD from BB given the large discounts. However, I was wondering if these shirts are considered formal or dressed up enough for professional attire where the rest of the outfit is a suit? Are these more for casual wear with chinos or can they be worn with a suit?


They are "dressed up enough" to be worn with a suit. In the 1920s, some prep school kids wore them with a suit in order to be fashion-forward. Things have changed since then.

Good enough for William F. Buckley Jr., good enough for you.

Since this is election day, I'll ask you a question related to presidential shirts. Who are the only two presidents who, while in office, sometimes wore shirts with button-down collars with their suits?

Answer: Lyndon Johnson and Gerald Ford.

Johnson favored tab collars, but he wore button-down collars occasionally. When he signed the Medicare bill into law in July 1965, he wore a short-sleeve shirt with a button-down collar with his dark suit.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Charles Dana said:


> They are "dressed up enough" to be worn with a suit. In the 1920s, some prep school kids wore them with a suit in order to be fashion-forward. Things have changed since then.
> 
> Good enough for William F. Buckley Jr., good enough for you.
> 
> Since this is election day, I'll ask you a question related to presidential shirts. Who are the only two presidents who, while in office, sometimes wore shirts with button-down collars with their suits?
> 
> Answer: Lyndon Johnson and Gerald Ford.
> 
> Johnson favored tab collars, but he wore button-down collars occasionally. When he signed the Medicare bill into law in July 1965, he wore a short-sleeve shirt with a button-down collar with his dark suit.


A cool bit of history.


----------



## Zim

I'm buying my father an O'Connell's Shetland sweater for Christmas to replace one he lost 10 years ago. Does anyone know if the chest size is accurate in the sense of a 44 being exactly 44 inches around the chest or if there's some degree of extra allowance?

I couldn't get his sport coat size but his wife was able to measure one of his favorites sweaters at 23 inches across the front. I am note sure if I should be looking at a 44 or 46.

To muddy things a bit, my sport coat size is a 43l. Going by O'Connell's suggestion to size up I'd wear a 44 sweater. My father is a bit smaller in all dimensions that I am, couple inches shorter, as well as slimmer in the waist and I believe in the chest. I am worried a 46 would be a tent on him and that even a 44 would be large.


----------



## Charles Dana

Zim said:


> I'm buying my father an O'Connell's Shetland sweater for Christmas to replace one he lost 10 years ago. Does anyone know if the chest size is accurate in the sense of a 44 being exactly 44 inches around the chest or if there's some degree of extra allowance?
> 
> I couldn't get his sport coat size but his wife was able to measure one of his favorites sweaters at 23 inches across the front. I am note sure if I should be looking at a 44 or 46.
> 
> To muddy things a bit, my sport coat size is a 43l. Going by O'Connell's suggestion to size up I'd wear a 44 sweater. My father is a bit smaller in all dimensions that I am, couple inches shorter, as well as slimmer in the waist and I believe in the chest. I am worried a 46 would be a tent on him and that even a 44 would be large.


Call O'Connell's and talk to Ethan. Tell him exactly what you wrote above. He will clear up everything.


----------



## August West

Charles Dana said:


> Call O'Connell's and talk to Ethan. Tell him exactly what you wrote above. He will clear up everything.


+1 to this. Alternatively you could email and Ethan will likely reply.


----------



## ztrad5

ztrad5 said:


> Thanks so much for the answer above. I'm more comfortable wearing the OCBD with my suits given your input.
> 
> Regarding shoes, I have a pair of AE McAllister wingtips in walnut brown, black Oxford captoe shoes, and dark brown Oxford captoe shoes. I am hoping to add a loafer. What do folks recommend for a first versatile loafer? Would you all recommend Alden burgundy cordovan tassel loafers, Gucci horsebit loafers in black with silver buckle (may be too flashy), or something else entirely?


 Just a follow-up, I went with the classic Gucci horsebit loafers in black with the silver bit. Really enjoying them - the horsebit jingle is a nice sound and the shoes are very comfortable. Looking to get the Aldens next.


----------



## FLMike

ztrad5 said:


> Thanks so much for the answer above. I'm more comfortable wearing the OCBD with my suits given your input.
> 
> Regarding shoes, I have a pair of AE McAllister wingtips in walnut brown, black Oxford captoe shoes, and dark brown Oxford captoe shoes. I am hoping to add a loafer. What do folks recommend for a first versatile loafer? Would you all recommend Alden burgundy cordovan tassel loafers, Gucci horsebit loafers in black with silver buckle (may be too flashy), or something else entirely?


The clear answer is Alden 563, followed by Alden 986. Then the Gucci bits.


----------



## eagle2250

FLMike said:


> The clear answer is Alden 563, followed by Alden 986. Then the Gucci bits.


It's been awhile...it is good to see you posting again!


----------



## ldl

Hi, I am a Master's student who will graduate to work on wall street this summer. I am hoping to gain some advice on my next shoe purchase.
My current collection consists of 
LL Bean Camp Mocs 
John Lobb lopez loafers in dark brown
Alden Tassels #8 cordovan
Black oxfords, (made bespoke for my dad and handed down to me)
Paraboot Avoriaz boots

Would love to hear recommendations for my next shoe. I was thinking Loro Piana Summer Walks, suede brogues, or black Gucci Snaffles. Would be very open to other suggestions though.


----------



## ztrad5

ldl said:


> Hi, I am a Master's student who will graduate to work on wall street this summer. I am hoping to gain some advice on my next shoe purchase.
> My current collection consists of
> LL Bean Camp Mocs
> John Lobb lopez loafers in dark brown
> Alden Tassels #8 cordovan
> Black oxfords, (made bespoke for my dad and handed down to me)
> Paraboot Avoriaz boots
> 
> Would love to hear recommendations for my next shoe. I was thinking Loro Piana Summer Walks, suede brogues, or black Gucci Snaffles. Would be very open to other suggestions though.


Congrats - how do you like the Alden Tassels?
I went with the black Gucci silver horsebit and really enjoy them! I would imagine those are perfect for wall street!


----------



## ran23

I have two cable knit Brooks sweater vests coming in from ebay. Can't find anything like that on their site. Country Club cotton vest. ??


----------



## Fading Fast

ran23 said:


> I have two cable knit Brooks sweater vests coming in from ebay. Can't find anything like that on their site. Country Club cotton vest. ??


If I'm interpreting your question correctly, in years past, BB's "Country Club" line was much more extensive than it is today and, yes, it carried cable knit sweater vests in that line. I can still see them on the table in the Country Club section of the second floor of the Madison Avenue store. I don't remember when the line started, but several years ago, BB seemed to be dramatically deemphasizing the line.

But for awhile, it was a pretty extensive line that contained a lot of what I guess were country-club-style clothes. I only know about country clubs from what I've seen in the movies (which is, of course, suspect) and the two or three weddings I've been to at them over many years. In general, the clothes in the BB Country Club line were in brighter colors and, generally, more spring/summer like in textures and weights.


----------



## ran23

Even thou it is cotton, Navy and Cream are the right colours for me . Too bad they are stuck in New York weather.


----------



## Fading Fast

ran23 said:


> Even thou it is cotton, Navy and Cream are the right colours for me . Too bad they are stuck in New York weather.


I bought a used book from a dealer in Ohio, the book - according to USPS tracking - has been in a New York "sorting facility" for seven days with the delivery date having been missed and pushed out four times so far.


----------



## ran23

Seller was good enough to get back to me, new tracking number and it is moving now across the US. I think mine did sit in New York about 6 days.


----------



## never behind

I had a Priority Mail package just take a month to go from IN to NYC. Crazy.


----------



## Fading Fast

The book showed up late yesterday. It was cold and hungry, but glad to have finally gotten out of the Post Office's "New York Sorting Facility" after having spent a full week of being ignored there.


----------



## mhj

I had a package stuck en route and filed an inquiry with USPS. After I finally received it I got a phone call apologizing from a supervisor at my local PO. I was extremely impressed.


----------



## fishertw

mhj said:


> I had a package stuck en route and filed an inquiry with USPS. After I finally received it I got a phone call apologizing from a supervisor at my local PO. I was extremely impressed.


I am in a region of NC whose mail seems to come through the Greensboro facility. Recently I was made aware that a lot of the staff in that facility are out with Covid which is causing shortages of workers and slowdown of delivery to outlying PO's


----------



## philipneri

I am thinking of getting an O'Connell's Denim Shetland instead of the standard O'Connell's Navy Shetland. What do you all think? I feel like the denim is more interesting visually than the navy but still equally as versatile.


----------



## New Old Stock

philipneri said:


> I am thinking of getting an O'Connell's Denim Shetland instead of the standard O'Connell's Navy Shetland. What do you all think? I feel like the denim is more interesting visually than the navy but still equally as versatile.


This has always been my school of thought regarding shetlands. I leave solid colors to the more "refined" fabrics & styles. A shetland, especially a brushed one, has so much more character when the colors are heathered, I think.


----------



## never behind

New Old Stock said:


> This has always been my school of thought regarding shetlands. I leave solid colors to the more "refined" fabrics & styles. A shetland, especially a brushed one, has so much more character when the colors are heathered, I think.


I can say I love all my Shetlands but I do find myself enjoying colors like Rust vs navy or Forrest green, for this reason. 


philipneri said:


> I am thinking of getting an O'Connell's Denim Shetland instead of the standard O'Connell's Navy Shetland. What do you all think? I feel like the denim is more interesting visually than the navy but still equally as versatile.


I do have a navy Shetland and have been looking at a lighter color blue. I was looking at Blue Danube but this one is nice as well!


----------



## philipneri

never behind said:


> I can say I love all my Shetlands but I do find myself enjoying colors like Rust vs navy or Forrest green, for this reason.
> 
> I do have a navy Shetland and have been looking at a lighter color blue. I was looking at Blue Danube but this one is nice as well!


I like the look of Blue Danube as well. How many Shetlands do you have? What are your favorites?


----------



## never behind

philipneri said:


> I like the look of Blue Danube as well. How many Shetlands do you have? What are your favorites?


I currently have six. My favorites (so far) are rust and cumin. Courtesy of O'Connell's.


----------



## philipneri

I am happy that Rust and Cumin are your favorites. I think they might be my favorites as well. I own two right now: Burgundy and Cumin. Denim will be my next purchase.


----------



## ztrad5

Hi all, starting to look towards spring/summer and investing in a poplin suit. O'Connell's has three color options: British tan, Olive, and Oyster. All look attractive but I'm drawn most to British tan. Was hoping for some insight as to the classic choice for a first piece. I am looking at the house brand which seem like a good price at $595. Here's the link to the British tan option: https://oconnellsclothing.com/suits...on-poplin-british-tan-835-1-ds04-brt-tan.html


----------



## Charles Dana

ztrad5 said:


> Hi all, starting to look towards spring/summer and investing in a poplin suit. O'Connell's has three color options: British tan, Olive, and Oyster. All look attractive but I'm drawn most to British tan. Was hoping for some insight as to the classic choice for a first piece.


My gut feeling is that tan should be the color of your first poplin suit. Then olive.

Once tan and olive are in your rotation, go wild with oyster.


----------



## Jack_Aubrey

I received a Jos. A Banks Travelers shirt as a gift five years ago and it was and is very surprisingly high quality. My Q is are they still good shirts? I'm trying to find a replacement for Brooks Brothers since their sizing has gone haywire and quality may be changing with new ownership. Thanks in advance for an answer.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Jack_Aubrey said:


> I received a Jos. A Banks Travelers shirt as a gift five years ago and it was and is very surprisingly high quality. My Q is are they still good shirts? I'm trying to find a replacement for Brooks Brothers since their sizing has gone haywire and quality may be changing with new ownership. Thanks in advance for an answer.


I have always found them to be well made and well proportioned. I often thought that if JAB had offered them in guaranteed to wrinkle oxford as opposed to treated pinpoint, they might have retained more of the Trad customer base. I have, however, no recent experience with them.


----------



## mhj

+1. I bought one about a year ago and am very happy with it. Good fit and not plastic-y at all.


----------



## ldl

ztrad5 said:


> Congrats - how do you like the Alden Tassels?
> I went with the black Gucci silver horsebit and really enjoy them! I would imagine those are perfect for wall street!


Hi, sorry for the late reply. I love the Alden Tassels. It was my first pair of shoes that were bought for me actually that's currently in my collection. I think the cordovan is definitely the way to go and looks great. I just bought the black Gucci bits and love them.
Thanks


----------



## L. B. Goold

Is it counterproductive to wear a vest with a seersucker shirt? I have a pink candy stripe that looks positively fluorescent on the placket and yoke on account of the extra cloth and my complexion.


----------



## ztrad5

ldl said:


> Hi, sorry for the late reply. I love the Alden Tassels. It was my first pair of shoes that were bought for me actually that's currently in my collection. I think the cordovan is definitely the way to go and looks great. I just bought the black Gucci bits and love them.
> Thanks


Congrats! They're quite comfortable and make a nice jingle. I am likely going with the Alden Tassels next. The other shoe I've been eyeing is the Belgian Shoe company's Mr Casual model. Another hit on the Street.


----------



## LukeRoz

Just got this Royden shotgun shell belt for my birthday. I'm in between a 34 and 36. Would you keep this size or go up to 36? Thanks!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

LukeRoz said:


> Just got this Royden shotgun shell belt for my birthday. I'm in between a 34 and 36. Would you keep this size or go up to 36? Thanks!
> View attachment 53803


How stable is your weight? If it is trending downward or stable, this is fine. If it wanders upward, the 36 might be the better choice. Happy birthday! Nice belt.


----------



## LukeRoz

TKI67 said:


> How stable is your weight? If it is trending downward or stable, this is fine. If it wanders upward, the 36 might be the better choice. Happy birthday! Nice belt.


Thanks! I've been fairly stable for a few years so going to stick with this one. Thanks for the reply!


----------



## Corcovado

A few years back a catalog of men's hats arrived out of the blue at my parents' house. The catalog was smallish in size, and the depictions of the hats were all hand-drawn, i.e. no photography. I cannot remember the name of the catalog and I wonder if this sounds familiar to anyone here. Any thoughts?


----------



## mhj

Charles Dana said:


> My gut feeling is that tan should be the color of your first poplin suit. Then olive.
> 
> Once tan and olive are in your rotation, go wild with oyster.


Navy is also good to have as it's passable for business wear in the summer.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Over a long career and many suits I have had oyster, olive, tan, and navy. Olive and oyster got the most use, and IMO are also the most classic colors for a TNSIL type, but I agree with mhj that the navy can fill in quite nicely in a business setting. I love poplin suits.


----------



## eagle2250

Years back I built my collection of cotton poplin suits with a single order to O'Connell's....a Khaki, an olive and a navy hued suit(s). Those suits have helped me survive the heat and humidity here in central Florida.


----------



## Fading Fast

Like others above, over the past three-plus decades of suit wearing, I've owned poplin in, I believe, every color it came in: navy, tan, stone (oyster), olive and gray.

If I had a need for them, I'd gladly buy them all again as I loved those suits - very comfortable in the summer and opened up all sorts of fun shirt-tie-shoes combination options.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

+1 on the way they open up shirt-tie-shoes combinations. Things I would find unthinkable elsewhere like Madras ties and yellow shirts work beautifully with poplin suits.


----------



## ztrad5

Fading Fast said:


> Like others above, over the past three-plus decades of suit wearing, I've owned poplin in, I believe, every color it came in: navy, tan, stone (oyster), olive and gray.
> 
> If I had a need for them, I'd gladly buy them all again as I loved those suits - very comfortable in the summer and opened up all sorts of fun shirt-tie-shoes combination options.


Did you also go with O'Connells house brand for your poplin suits?


----------



## Fading Fast

ztrad5 said:


> Did you also go with O'Connells house brand for your poplin suits?


When I bought most of my poplins, '80s- early '00s, I didn't even know about O'Connells. Mine were mainly Haspel brand bought at department stores or Brooks Brothers' house brand.

One year, in the early '90s, in late September, Lord & Taylor's department store all but gave their poplin suits away on a season-ending sale (something like "2 for $99") and I bought four of them in one shot and, then, had to wait until late next spring to break them out, but it was a lot of fun.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> When I bought most of my poplins, '80s- early '00s, I didn't even know about O'Connells. Mine were mainly Haspel brand bought at department stores or Brooks Brothers' house brand.
> 
> One year, in the early '90s, in late September, Lord & Taylor's department store all but gave their poplin suits away on a season-ending sale (something like "2 for $99") and I bought four of them in one shot and, then, had to wait until late next spring to break them out, but it was a lot of fun.


Likewise. I miss L&T.


----------



## IrvingS

Hi everyone, long time reader, new member. I had a question concerning a vintage sport coat I am considering. The label "Juilliard: The Aristocrat of Sport Coats." The tweed sport coat appears to be early or Mid 1960s. Does anyone know about this manufacture or label? Was the line of clothing decent or something else? I cannot find any references to it online but have seen other sport coats with the same or later style tag. Many thanks in advance!!


----------



## eagle2250

IrvingS said:


> Hi everyone, long time reader, new member. I had a question concerning a vintage sport coat I am considering. The label "Juilliard: The Aristocrat of Sport Coats." The tweed sport coat appears to be early or Mid 1960s. Does anyone know about this manufacture or label? Was the line of clothing decent or something else? I cannot find any references to it online but have seen other sport coats with the same or later style tag. Many thanks in advance!!
> View attachment 55525


Member IrvingS, I am not familiar with the Julliard brand of sport coats and am unable to advise you in that regard. However I did want to take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum. I am sure you will enjoy and learn from the experience. Take care and have a great day!


----------



## ztrad5

What are some staple summer linen sport coats? 
A navy blue hopsack or a light brown linen? Thanks!


----------



## Peak and Pine

ztrad5 said:


> What are some staple summer linen sport coats? A navy blue hopsack or a light brown linen?


Yes.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

If you extend beyond linen, I find that a light blue chambray is very useful. Also there is a world of linen/wool/silk blends, often in tic weaves, that are very nice.


----------



## Patrick06790

The problem I've always had with "summer" jackets is they tend to be fully-lined, which pretty much negates the effect of lighter fabrics.

After much trial and error I settled on a thrifted poly blend hopsack blazer that isn't perfect but at least it isn't fully lined.

Years ago LL Bean had a cotton blazer, similar to sturdy chino fabric, in navy and tan. No structure to speak of, save the bare minimum of shoulder. Only problem with those was they were darted. Alas, I outgrew them, ahem, and to the thrift shop they went. Now that I've lost 20 pounds I wish I had stashed them in my super-secret clothing vault.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Patrick06790 said:


> The problem I've always had with "summer" jackets is they tend to be fully-lined, which pretty much negates the effect of lighter fabrics.
> 
> After much trial and error I settled on a thrifted poly blend hopsack blazer that isn't perfect but at least it isn't fully lined.
> 
> Years ago LL Bean had a cotton blazer, similar to sturdy chino fabric, in navy and tan. No structure to speak of, save the bare minimum of shoulder. Only problem with those was they were darted. Alas, I outgrew them, ahem, and to the thrift shop they went. Now that I've lost 20 pounds I wish I had stashed them in my super-secret clothing vault.


Murray's Toggery offers an unconstructed jacket in Nantucket red, tan, or blue. They do not appear to be darted. I have also found old Madras jackets on Etsy that are very light and comfortable.


----------



## Fading Fast

Patrick06790 said:


> The problem I've always had with "summer" jackets is they tend to be fully-lined, which pretty much negates the effect of lighter fabrics.
> 
> After much trial and error I settled on a thrifted poly blend hopsack blazer that isn't perfect but at least it isn't fully lined.
> 
> Years ago LL Bean had a cotton blazer, similar to sturdy chino fabric, in navy and tan. No structure to speak of, save the bare minimum of shoulder. Only problem with those was they were darted. Alas, I outgrew them, ahem, and to the thrift shop they went. Now that I've lost 20 pounds I wish I had stashed them in my super-secret clothing vault.


I found this to be true up until about ten years ago and, then, I started to notice some unlined (really, half lined as the shoulders and sleeves would be lined, but not the rest) sport coats popping up. Ralph, Brooks and J.Crew since then have often had some unlined sport coats. I own a couple of J.Crew summer ones that are great because, as you note, if they line the jacket, it undoes much of the good of the light material.


----------



## ran23

My favorite light weight Cricketer was my summer jacket, until I outgrew it. partial lined on the front.


----------



## mhj

Also check out Uniqlo.


----------



## IrvingS

eagle2250 said:


> Member IrvingS, I am not familiar with the Julliard brand of sport coats and am unable to advise you in that regard. However I did want to take this opportunity to welcome you to the forum. I am sure you will enjoy and learn from the experience. Take care and have a great day!


Thanks for the welcome. The sport coat turned out to be very cheaply made, even by 1960s standards.


----------



## IrvingS

Hi again everyone, any opinions on wearing a short sleeve white ocbd shirt (an older brooks brothers one)? Other than trying to look like a mid century NASA or IBM engineer?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

IrvingS said:


> Hi again everyone, any opinions on wearing a short sleeve white ocbd shirt (an older brooks brothers one)? Other than trying to look like a mid century NASA or IBM engineer?


Growing up in the DC area before air conditioning was commonplace, I saw a lot of them. For reasons I never understood, they are now out of favor. They do feel odd under a jacket.


----------



## Tweedlover

TKI67 said:


> Growing up in the DC area before air conditioning was commonplace, I saw a lot of them. For reasons I never understood, they are now out of favor. They do feel odd under a jacket.


Agree that they didn't feel quite right to me. I prefer the look of a long sleeved OCBD shirt rolled to mid-forearm over a short-sleeved if one takes the jacket off. When I was working I typically would do that even when keeping the jacket on so that I could see my wristwatches easier.


----------



## Charles Dana

IrvingS said:


> Hi again everyone, any opinions on wearing a short sleeve white ocbd shirt (an older brooks brothers one)?


What's YOUR opinion? That's the one that matters.

(I wouldn't wear it-not my style. I have three button-front, short-sleeve seersucker shirts. But no short-sleeve OCBDs. Not that it should matter to you.)


----------



## IrvingS

Good morning all, yes, it was a lark. I passed on it. My main interest was because it was an older, brooks brothers shirt. I do own a number of vintage seersucker and madras, short sleeve ocbd style shirts, but pattern short sleeve summer shirts seem more appropriate than a solid white short sleeve shirt.


----------



## Tweedlover

IrvingS said:


> Good morning all, yes, it was a lark. I passed on it. My main interest was because it was an older, brooks brothers shirt. I do own a number of vintage seersucker and madras, short sleeve ocbd style shirts, but pattern short sleeve summer shirts seem more appropriate than a solid white short sleeve shirt.


I agree. I wear denim, chambray, and seersucker, (patterned), short sleeved shirts in the summer. Those along with polos and T-shirts comprise my summer shirt selections.


----------



## Guest

anglophile23 said:


> What trouser color looks best with a blazer but is still verstile? I'm tired of the blazer/chino look.


----------



## Tweedlover

Back when I had a navy blazer I liked to wear my light blue trousers with it.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I like them with grey, ranging from Cambridge to Oxford, and with glen plaids. The blazer will even work with moleskins or cords, especially in brighter colors, for a more casual look. Blazers are the perfect foil for GTH pants like embroidered pants (pink poplins embroidered with martini glasses in the summer or green cords embroidered with wreaths in the holiday season), Madras (patchwork is great but overdone). Go for a garish plaid.) In the summer they work with Bermudas. Lastly, perhaps the most classic casual look, Nantucket reds.


----------



## ztrad5

Hi all, I find my gold/brass buttons on my navy blazer to be pretentious. Does anyone have any recommendations for an interesting alternative button, such as Mother of Pearl or another option to replace the standard buttons? Any websites have buttons for sale that I could then go to tailor and replace the gold ones? Thanks!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

ztrad5 said:


> Hi all, I find my gold/brass buttons on my navy blazer to be pretentious. Does anyone have any recommendations for an interesting alternative button, such as Mother of Pearl or another option to replace the standard buttons? Any websites have buttons for sale that I could then go to tailor and replace the gold ones? Thanks!


I find it odd that the most common buttons on blazers OTR are brass and you find them pretentious, but if you are not comfortable with them, replacing them is important. I would suggest a bone button.


----------



## ztrad5

Thank you, I'm in an environment where I am being judged and don't want people to get a 'flashy' or pretentious vibe from me...I obviously don't feel that way about other people wearing brass/gold buttons but don't think the general populace shares this view.


----------



## Charles Dana

ztrad5 said:


> Any websites have buttons for sale that I could then go to tailor and replace the gold ones? Thanks!


You'll find button purveyors by doing a Google search.

Another option is to go to Goodwill or any thrift store. Inspect the buttons on the suits and sport coats. If you see any that hit the sweet spot, buy the garment to which they are attached. Then harvest the buttons at home.


----------



## Rosarito

I'm going through my ties tonight, figuring out which ones I really love and which ones might need to go. I realized that I have a couple of "high quality" ties from a made-to-order maker who is highly recommended on forums such as this one but I can't for the life of me get a nice looking knot with them. It's almost like these ties are too thick and sturdy and they don't want to budge. However, some of my lesser quality ties almost seem to tie themselves - the knots are beautiful almost every time. What gives? Is there some specific quality or attribute I should be looking for to have better luck with this?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Rosarito said:


> I'm going through my ties tonight, figuring out which ones I really love and which ones might need to go. I realized that I have a couple of "high quality" ties from a made-to-order maker who is highly recommended on forums such as this one but I can't for the life of me get a nice looking knot with them. It's almost like these ties are too thick and sturdy and they don't want to budge. However, some of my lesser quality ties almost seem to tie themselves - the knots are beautiful almost every time. What gives? Is there some specific quality or attribute I should be looking for to have better luck with this?


Have you noticed any correlation between the fabrics and the way they knot? For example I find that knits and Irish poplin (fifty/fifty silk and wool) are usually on the thick side, and this often leads to fat knots and short ends. The thinness of silk foulards, however, usually works like a charm. Challis and Macclesfield often tend towards the thick end, and silk repp is often in the sweet spot. Easiest to tie are the very thin silks like Hermes and even Vineyard Vines, but they tie such a small knot they seem to impose a sprezzatura look whether you want it or not.

Of course, regardless of the fabric, the way the tie is made, the number of folds, and presence or absence of lining will affect things. I have several repps (a Chipp emblematic, a BB red and gold, Breuer navy and orange, and a High Cotton red and white bow). Chipp definitely ties better than BB and about like Breuer. I really like the way Chipp challis tie, too. They are not expensive but are my faves. The High Cotton, being a bow, is not an apples to apples comparison, but it was inexpensive and ties nicely.

The bottom line, however, is that ties have their own personalities, and you can't assume that because a tie is expensive it will tie well or because it was inexpensive it will tie poorly. Also, brands may change over time. I find modern BB ties very, very different from the older ones with the charcoal labels and reverse slant block letters.


----------



## Rosarito

TKI67 said:


> Have you noticed any correlation between the fabrics and the way they knot?


The frustrating part is that two of my problem ties are a grossa grenadine and a silk pindot but I have other grenadine and silk pindot ties from more mainstream mall brands that look about the same but are lighter in feel and tie very well. I have a vintage 1960s silk repp tie that can do no wrong - it always looks great. I guess I just need to try different brands and stick to the ones that work for me.


----------



## LukeRoz

Just recieved these two Ledbury shirts. One is 15 and the other is 15.5. I think they both look like a good fit. Am i crazy or is it possible both sizes work for me? Thanks!


----------



## Charles Dana

The body of a size 15 shirt is going to be the same size—or just about the same size—as the body of a size 15.5 shirt. Lay both shirts flat on your bed, grab a measuring tape, and see for yourself. It’s in the collar where the size differential will be noticed—not necessarily to an observer, but to you when you’re wearing a necktie after the shirts have been laundered a few times and thus have had a chance to shrink. 

The body of a size 16 or 16.5 shirt will be significantly larger than either of your shirts. The body of a size 14 or 14.5 shirt will be significantly smaller.

Both shirts look good if you like a full fit. The cuffs look large, so you might want to move the cuff buttons over to decrease the cuffs’ circumference.


----------



## Mike Petrik

LukeRoz said:


> Just recieved these two Ledbury shirts. One is 15 and the other is 15.5. I think they both look like a good fit. Am i crazy or is it possible both sizes work for me? Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 57229
> 
> 
> View attachment 57230


lt is hard to assess the collars from the photos. Normally I would recommend the smallest collar that does not feel at all snug when buttoned. You might try buttoning with a necktie properly seated at the top. If it causes the collar to pull, overlap, or wrinkle the collar size might be too large


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I need to replace my OCBDs due to significant size changes. I'll keep the old ones for open collar wear but am pondering the four most useful ones to get. Clearly blue and blue university stripe, but for the other two I am thinking of branching out. One that I am toying with is not an OCBD but a pink striped broadcloth, referred to by some as a tape stripe. The other is either a butter yellow or an ecru. These would be paired with navy blazers, grey herringbone jacket, or a grey glen plaid tweed jacket. I have a white shirt in my new size on order for wear with seersucker suit, madras jacket, or dark grey suit when blue doesn't work. Any other ideas? If not, at least I accomplished my purpose, a new post on this thread!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I need to replace my OCBDs due to significant size changes. I'll keep the old ones for open collar wear but am pondering the four most useful ones to get. Clearly blue and blue university stripe, but for the other two I am thinking of branching out. One that I am toying with is not an OCBD but a pink striped broadcloth, referred to by some as a tape stripe. The other is either a butter yellow or an ecru. These would be paired with navy blazers, grey herringbone jacket, or a grey glen plaid tweed jacket. I have a white shirt in my new size on order for wear with seersucker suit, madras jacket, or dark grey suit when blue doesn't work. Any other ideas? If not, at least I accomplished my purpose, a new post on this thread!


Good on you for the second reason. I do that sometimes, too, like you, just trying to keep a thread alive.

Your list seems good to me. I also like to always have a solid pink and a light-gray university stripe OCBD in the closet as, along with white, blue and blue university stripe, those are the ones I wear the most.


----------



## Eligius

TKI67 said:


> I need to replace my OCBDs due to significant size changes. I'll keep the old ones for open collar wear but am pondering the four most useful ones to get. Clearly blue and blue university stripe, but for the other two I am thinking of branching out. One that I am toying with is not an OCBD but a pink striped broadcloth, referred to by some as a tape stripe. The other is either a butter yellow or an ecru. These would be paired with navy blazers, grey herringbone jacket, or a grey glen plaid tweed jacket. I have a white shirt in my new size on order for wear with seersucker suit, madras jacket, or dark grey suit when blue doesn't work. Any other ideas? If not, at least I accomplished my purpose, a new post on this thread!


I would say ecru for sure with those pairings. I love the yellow OCBD too, but ecru is so versatile. For the 4th, I would probably go pink, but if you wanted to have another non-solid, perhaps a navy check or a tattersall check would go well with the non-patterned jackets. I recently got a pink university stripe OCBD and enjoy it, but I don't think it would make my top 4.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Eligius said:


> I would say ecru for sure with those pairings. I love the yellow OCBD too, but ecru is so versatile. For the 4th, I would probably go pink, but if you wanted to have another non-solid, perhaps a navy check or a tattersall check would go well with the non-patterned jackets. I recently got a pink university stripe OCBD and enjoy it, but I don't think it would make my top 4.


I am a pinkaholic. You sold me.


----------



## Howard

I know this is a silly question, do you think cart attendants like me should start wearing shirts and ties if the work clothing is allowed? When I used to work for Pathmark 14 years ago, once in a while I would wear a shirt and clip-on tie and they didn't mind and after I went to Stop N Shop, they didn't mind at all either, they thought I looked very professional.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> I know this is a silly question, do you think cart attendants like me should start wearing shirts and ties if the work clothing is allowed? When I used to work for Pathmark 14 years ago, once in a while I would wear a shirt and clip-on tie and they didn't mind and after I went to Stop N Shop, they didn't mind at all either, they thought I looked very professional.


I think bowties are perfect for that sort of work. They don't get caught in things or spilled on, and they are super easy to tie, just like shoes!


----------



## Howard

TKI67 said:


> I think bowties are perfect for that sort of work. They don't get caught in things or spilled on, and they are super easy to tie, just like shoes!


I have clip-on ties, Would that be good or would stuff get spilled on them?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Howard said:


> I have clip-on ties, Would that be good or would stuff get spilled on them?


I personally would opt for an open collar over a clip on.


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> I have clip-on ties, Would that be good or would stuff get spilled on them?


(a) Stuff will get spilled on your clip-on ties unless they are bow ties.

(b) Regarding ties that are NOT bow ties:

A clip-on tie is going to be where a regular tie will be-just below your chin and down the front of your shirt. Therefore, the clip-on and the regular ties are in equal danger of intercepting spilled matter.

(c) Avoid clip-on ties. You've outgrown them.

(d) Wear a tie-either a bow tie or a long tie-if you want to AND if your boss doesn't mind. You'll feel better, and some of your customers will get a little lift when they see that you care about your appearance. (Some shoppers will wonder why you're bothering with a tie, but don't worry about them. Unless they ask you. Then answer, "It's another way of showing that I take my job seriously. And I just like wearing a tie. Thank you."

(e) Make sure that your shirt and tie never clash. To make shirt/tie coordination easy, stick with shirts that are of a solid pale color: light blue, light pink, or white.


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> (a) Stuff will get spilled on your clip-on ties unless they are bow ties.
> 
> (b) Regarding ties that are NOT bow ties:
> 
> A clip-on tie is going to be where a regular tie will be-just below your chin and down the front of your shirt. Therefore, the clip-on and the regular ties are in equal danger of intercepting spilled matter.
> 
> (c) Avoid clip-on ties. You've outgrown them.
> 
> (d) Wear a tie-either a bow tie or a long tie-if you want to AND if your boss doesn't mind. You'll feel better, and some of your customers will get a little lift when they see that you care about your appearance. (Some shoppers will wonder why you're bothering with a tie, but don't worry about them. Unless they ask you. Then answer, "It's another way of showing that I take my job seriously. And I just like wearing a tie. Thank you."
> 
> (e) Make sure that your shirt and tie never clash. To make shirt/tie coordination easy, stick with shirts that are of a solid pale color: light blue, light pink, or white.


Thanks for the suggestion,Charley.


----------



## Howard

I'm sure they wouldn't mind once in a while, When I was there when it was Pathmark someone told me that I looked very professional.


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> Thanks for the suggestion,Charley.





Howard said:


> I'm sure they wouldn't mind once in a while, When I was there when it was Pathmark someone told me that I looked very professional.


You're welcome, Howard! Now grab a necktie!


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> You're welcome, Howard! Now grab a necktie!


I'll have to look for some, I know I have a few of them in my drawer.


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> I'll have to look for some, I know I have a few of them in my drawer.


It's easy to find neckties-still in good condition-in thrift stores.

Wherever you find your ties, make sure you avoid ones that are too wide, or too garish. Stick with "quiet" ties.

And you can't go wrong with silk knit ties that are solid black or solid navy.


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> It's easy to find neckties-still in good condition-in thrift stores.
> 
> Wherever you find your ties, make sure you avoid ones that are too wide, or too garish. Stick with "quiet" ties.
> 
> And you can't go wrong with silk knit ties that are solid black or solid navy.


I only have clip on ties that are colored black and one red, the neckties I keep in my closet cause I get frustrated with tying them, I keep them simple wearing just clip on ones.


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> I only have clip on ties that are colored black and one red, the neckties I keep in my closet cause I get frustrated with tying them, I keep them simple wearing just clip on ones.


If tying a standard necktie frustrates you&#8230;practice. Practice until it's easy. And it will get easy.

Throw away those clip-ons.


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> If tying a standard necktie frustrates you&#8230;practice. Practice until it's easy. And it will get easy.
> 
> Throw away those clip-ons.


Charley, can I still keep those clip on ties for special occasions?


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> Charley, can I still keep those clip on ties for special occasions?


Howard, if you are at a wedding or a funeral-and thus wearing a suit-and you think the chances are extremely high that you'll be involved in a fistfight-then go ahead and wear a clip-on tie. That way, your opponent won't be able to strangle you with it. If he (or she) grabs your tie with every intention of cutting off your air supply, the joke will be on him (or her).

Ha! Imagine the puzzled look on your adversary's face when he (or she) is standing there with a handful of clip-on necktie.

Except for dressed-up hand-to-hand combat, there are no "special occasions" that would call for a clip-on tie.


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> Howard, if you are at a wedding or a funeral-and thus wearing a suit-and you think the chances are extremely high that you'll be involved in a fistfight-then go ahead and wear a clip-on tie. That way, your opponent won't be able to strangle you with it. If he (or she) grabs your tie with every intention of cutting off your air supply, the joke will be on him (or her).
> 
> Ha! Imagine the puzzled look on your adversary's face when he (or she) is standing there with a handful of clip-on necktie.
> 
> Except for dressed-up hand-to-hand combat, there are no "special occasions" that would call for a clip-on tie.


Believe me Charley I have never been involved in a fistfight at a wedding or a funeral, last time I been to a wedding was almost 25 years ago and the last time I went to a funeral was at My Grandmother's, she had turned 100 years old a couple of weeks before she had passed, she died in 2017. ☹


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> Believe me Charley I have never been involved in a fistfight at a wedding or a funeral, last time I been to a wedding was almost 25 years ago and the last time I went to a funeral was at My Grandmother's, she had turned 100 years old a couple of weeks before she had passed, she died in 2017. ☹


My belated condolences on the loss of your grandmother. Thank goodness she had a long, full life.

Since you manage to stay out of fights at weddings and funerals, then you have all the more reason to get rid of those clip-on neckties.


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> My belated condolences on the loss of your grandmother. Thank goodness she had a long, full life.
> 
> Since you manage to stay out of fights at weddings and funerals, then you have all the more reason to get rid of those clip-on neckties.


But I'm only pushing carts, this is not a wedding or special occasion.


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> But I'm only pushing carts, this is not a wedding or special occasion.


Exactly! Your chances of getting into a knock-down, drag-out fight are much less at work than at a special social event. That means you don't need to resort to a clip-on tie while pushing carts.

Save the clip-ons for those functions where you're most likely to find yourself in the middle of a brawl, such as wedding receptions, bar mitzvahs, or your niece's kindergarten graduation.

Let me put it this way, Howard: Do you still use a sippy cup?

No.

Do you still use a booster seat in restaurants?

No.

Then you shouldn't wear a clip-on necktie.

Do keep a couple of them in reserve in case you join MI6 or Kingsman, in which case you'll stand a good chance, while all suited up, of going mano a mano with various henchmen for villains bent on world domination. Then you'll be glad you had the foresight to don the clip-on.

True, the peril you'd be in as an international secret agent wouldn't come anywhere near what you'd face at the typical wedding reception or confirmation, but being prepared makes all the difference between being a good spy and a dead spy.

For cart work, ditch the clips.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

In short, a clip-on tie, no matter how nice it looks, is recognizable as a clip-on tie and commands less respect than a tie you tie yourself. For reasons I have never understood, tying your own bowtie commands even more respect, and a minimally askew knot garners more respect, not less. If you try tying a bow tie I have two suggestions. They are usually adjustable. Set it at half an inch over your collar size. Next, try tying it without looking in a mirror. Just put it on and tie it without looking, just the way you would tie your shoes. You can straighten and adjust it with a mirror, but watching a bow being tied in a mirror just seems to confuse people.


----------



## Charles Dana

Seriously, Howard:

You want to step up your sartorial game by wearing a necktie. That’s wonderful.

But when you put on a clip-on tie, you’re actually stepping down your game. 

Wear a tie that you have to tie. Either a bow tie or a long tie. 

Do you think that knotting the tie is too difficult? As I told you previously: practice. Then it will eventually get easy.

If you don’t want to wear a tie-it-yourself tie, then don’t wear a tie at all.


----------



## fishertw

TKI67 said:


> I think bowties are perfect for that sort of work. They don't get caught in things or spilled on, and they are super easy to tie, just like shoes!


I agree TK- there are professions where either bow ties or clip on's are necessary. My grandfather was a printer, as was his son and grandson. My uncle nearly died getting his tie caught in a printing press one time. I have photos of my grandfather in the 1930's wearing a suit to work as a printer at a newspaper. He always had his tie tucked into his shirt for this very reason. I never saw him wear a bow tie nor clip on(dont think they had clip on's back then) but he was always careful.


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## Charles Dana

And if you’re afraid of getting your long, tie-it-yourself necktie caught in something, use a tie clasp.


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## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> Exactly! Your chances of getting into a knock-down, drag-out fight are much less at work than at a special social event. That means you don't need to resort to a clip-on tie while pushing carts.
> 
> Save the clip-ons for those functions where you're most likely to find yourself in the middle of a brawl, such as wedding receptions, bar mitzvahs, or your niece's kindergarten graduation.
> 
> Let me put it this way, Howard: Do you still use a sippy cup?
> 
> No.
> 
> Do you still use a booster seat in restaurants?
> 
> No.
> 
> Then you shouldn't wear a clip-on necktie.
> 
> Do keep a couple of them in reserve in case you join MI6 or Kingsman, in which case you'll stand a good chance, while all suited up, of going mano a mano with various henchmen for villains bent on world domination. Then you'll be glad you had the foresight to don the clip-on.
> 
> True, the peril you'd be in as an international secret agent wouldn't come anywhere near what you'd face at the typical wedding reception or confirmation, but being prepared makes all the difference between being a good spy and a dead spy.
> 
> For cart work, ditch the clips.


Then perhaps a zipper tie, I know you're going to say no too, Am I right?


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> Seriously, Howard:
> 
> You want to step up your sartorial game by wearing a necktie. That's wonderful.
> 
> But when you put on a clip-on tie, you're actually stepping down your game.
> 
> Wear a tie that you have to tie. Either a bow tie or a long tie.
> 
> Do you think that knotting the tie is too difficult? As I told you previously: practice. Then it will eventually get easy.
> 
> If you don't want to wear a tie-it-yourself tie, then don't wear a tie at all.


I get frustrated, Charley.


----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


> Then perhaps a zipper tie, I know you're going to say no too, Am I right?





Howard said:


> I get frustrated, Charley.


My opinion is that you should wear a tie-it-yourself tie. But that's only my opinion.

Having said that:

If you are dead-set against tying a tie, then go with a zipper tie; at least that contraption-because it does have a part that encircles your neck-comes closer to simulating a "real" tie than a clip-on does.


----------



## eagle2250

Howard said:


> Then perhaps a zipper tie, I know you're going to say no too, Am I right?





Charles Dana said:


> My opinion is that you should wear a tie-it-yourself tie. But that's only my opinion.
> 
> Having said that:
> 
> If you are dead-set against tying a tie, then go with a zipper tie; at least that contraption-because it does have a part that encircles your neck-comes closer to simulating a "real" tie than a clip-on does.


Before reading the two posts above, I had never heard of a zipper tie. However, with the convenience of You Tube I am now well aware of the design and function of the beast. I think I will stick with my tie ties....its just too hard to teach an old dog new tricks! LOL. Thanks for today's tidbit of new knowledge.


----------



## Howard

eagle2250 said:


> Before reading the two posts above, I had never heard of a zipper tie. However, with the convenience of You Tube I am now well aware of the design and function of the beast. I think I will stick with my tie ties....its just too hard to teach an old dog new tricks! LOL. Thanks for today's tidbit of new knowledge.


A zipper tie is a tie that is pre-made for you.


----------



## Howard




----------



## Charles Dana

Howard said:


>


Decent colors, Howard.

The white one, though, would be too difficult to coordinate with most shirts-ties look best when they are darker than the shirt. And the red isn't necessary if you also have the burgundy.

So I suggest you consider all but the white and the red one. Of course, it's your call.


----------



## drpeter

Charles Dana said:


> It's easy to find neckties-still in good condition-in thrift stores.


Goodwill has a flat rate of $1.99 for all ties, and for other accessories like belts. So, experimenting with colours, patterns and textures isn't an expensive proposition. I have picked up Lauren, Brooks and Scottish and English ties at this price, and a surprising number of them are in mint condition and often with tags that tell you what the original price was.


----------



## drpeter

Charles Dana said:


> My opinion is that you should wear a tie-it-yourself tie. But that's only my opinion.
> 
> Having said that:
> 
> If you are dead-set against tying a tie, then go with a zipper tie; at least that contraption-because it does have a part that encircles your neck-comes closer to simulating a "real" tie than a clip-on does.


Tying a tie isn't that hard, unless you have an injury or handicap in one or both hands/arms that prevent you from doing so. (The conservative senator and one-time presidential candidate, Robert Dole, had a WWII injury that prevented him the full use of one hand, and he used to wear pre-tied models). A bowtie is also not that difficult if you realize that it is the same principle as tying your shoelaces.

I recently found a couple of bowties at a thrift shop that looked like they were factory-pretied (shaped like a bowtie but pre-set and almost glued into place), but something made me pull on one of the ends and it began to come out. I bought it, took it home and undid it, and it turned out to be a regular self-tie model! The knot was stitched together inside with a single thread to hold it in place. I removed this thread, steamed out the set-in wrinkles, and it became a regular bowtie.

The small pleasures of thrifting.


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## drpeter

fishertw said:


> I agree TK- there are professions where either bow ties or clip on's are necessary. My grandfather was a printer, as was his son and grandson. My uncle nearly died getting his tie caught in a printing press one time. I have photos of my grandfather in the 1930's wearing a suit to work as a printer at a newspaper. He always had his tie tucked into his shirt for this very reason. I never saw him wear a bow tie nor clip on(dont think they had clip on's back then) but he was always careful.


I am with TKI and Fisher. I love bowties. In addition to printers, another group would be pediatricians -- a four-in-hand would be risky because a child could grab it and pull! So they often wear bowties too. At least this is the explanation one pediatrician friend offered me.


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## Charles Dana

drpeter said:


> Tying a tie isn't that hard, unless you have an injury or handicap in one or both hands/arms that prevent you from doing so. (The conservative senator and one-time presidential candidate, Robert Dole, had a WWII injury that prevented him the full use of one hand, and he used to wear pre-tied models). A bowtie is also not that difficult if you realize that it is the same principle as tying your shoelaces.


I agree with you 100%. However, Howard is adamantly opposed to wearing tie-it-yourself ties.

In suggesting he move forward with zipper ties, I was being realistic.

You know the adage: You have to play the four-in-hand you've been dealt.


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## drpeter

Nice touch, Charles!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Tying a tie isn't that hard, unless you have an injury or handicap in one or both hands/arms that prevent you from doing so. (The conservative senator and one-time presidential candidate, Robert Dole, had a WWII injury that prevented him the full use of one hand, and he used to wear pre-tied models). A bowtie is also not that difficult if you realize that it is the same principle as tying your shoelaces.
> 
> I recently found a couple of bowties at a thrift shop that looked like they were factory-pretied (shaped like a bowtie but pre-set and almost glued into place), but something made me pull on one of the ends and it began to come out. I bought it, took it home and undid it, and it turned out to be a regular self-tie model! The knot was stitched together inside with a single thread to hold it in place. I removed this thread, steamed out the set-in wrinkles, and it became a regular bowtie.
> 
> The small pleasures of thrifting.


"A bowtie is also not that difficult if you realize that it is the same principle as tying your shoelaces."

Yup.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> "A bowtie is also not that difficult if you realize that it is the same principle as tying your shoelaces."
> 
> Yup.


Truth be known, I can tie a regular necktie with my hands (and the tie) behind my back, but I do struggle a bit with the bow ties....I can tie the bow; however giving the bow a balanced/finished/elegant look frequently eludes me! :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Truth be known, I can tie a regular necktie with my hands (and the tie) behind my back, but I do struggle a bit with the bow ties....I can tie the bow; however giving the bow a balanced/finished/elegant look frequently eludes me! :crazy:


There was a time when I was going to black tie weddings and charity events with some regularity and I got pretty darn good at tying a bowtie. Only God knows how I'd do now many years later.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> however giving the bow a balanced/finished/elegant look frequently eludes me!


Now that's the whole point, old chap! It does not need to be too balanced or finished. Here are my thoughts: Let one end protrude more to one side than the loop that is behind. Pop up the looped end in front so that it looks pushed out a bit. Let the whole thing look a bit like it is almost loosely assembled. In fact, my belief is that some asymmetry is actually more elegant than perfect symmetry. Two examples (plus the late great actor Philippe Noiret):


----------



## Howard

Charles Dana said:


> I agree with you 100%. However, Howard is adamantly opposed to wearing tie-it-yourself ties.
> 
> In suggesting he move forward with zipper ties, I was being realistic.
> 
> You know the adage: You have to play the four-in-hand you've been dealt.


I will try doing that Charley.


----------



## Zim

I hope this question qualifies for this thread. I'm looking for a non blue tie to wear with a navy hopsack blazer, grey chinos or khakis, and j press pinpoint blue striped button down. Would a tie like this be perceived as a solid at a distance, or as a small pattern that would be a no go with bengal stripes?

My current plan b is a burgundy and navy tie with very thick, spaced out stripes, also below. I thought the gingham would be more summery.

















I might also try making do with something I have. I can take some pictures. I like striped shirts but find matching them difficult.


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## Vecchio Vespa

I agree the gingham looks more summery. So what if it looks solid at distance? It would also work, maybe even better, with a blue and white stripe. If you are in the market a solid color and white stripe is a pretty classic summery pairing with a blazer. Bonus points for finding a stripe that uses the colors of something with which you are or were affiliated (school, military, etc.). I wear a bright red and white bowtie, my high school colors.


----------



## Zim

I'm sorry, I misspoke. I actually hope it resolves as solid because I feared if it didn't I thought it would be busy with the striped shirt. 😅

Hmm...I'd like to find something in my school colors someday. They're green and white.


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## Vecchio Vespa

Zim said:


> I'm sorry, I misspoke. I actually hope it resolves as solid because I feared if it didn't I thought it would be busy with the striped shirt. 😅
> 
> Hmm...I'd like to find something in my school colors someday. They're green and white.


I note you are in Oregon. As a Willamette Alumnus I also wear cardinal and old gold stripes, but that is not a very summery look.


----------



## IrvingS

Hi, I have a vintage (pre 1972 going by store label) Alan Paine Sweater that says "Cashmere Major". It feels very weighty for a cashmere sweater. Is this an older indication of a heavy cashmere weight, a majority cashmere blended with wool, or a size indicator?

Thanks!!!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

IrvingS said:


> Hi, I have a vintage (pre 1972 going by store label) Alan Paine Sweater that says "Cashmere Major". It feels very weighty for a cashmere sweater. Is this an older indication of a heavy cashmere weight, a majority cashmere blended with wool, or a size indicator?
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> View attachment 62731


Welcome to Ask Andy!

Your Robert Kirk label is a happy trip down memory lane, but I cannot answer your question. I just wanted to say hi. Cashmere is graded by coarseness, and I speculated that in the era this was made they might have assigned names to grades rather than letters. With that brand and that store I would guess it is a very fine sweater.


----------



## Charles Dana

IrvingS said:


> Hi, I have a vintage (pre 1972 going by store label) Alan Paine Sweater that says "Cashmere Major". It feels very weighty for a cashmere sweater. Is this an older indication of a heavy cashmere weight, a majority cashmere blended with wool, or a size indicator?
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> View attachment 62731


I couldn't find much about the term "Cashmere Major." It originally seems to have been a brand name apart from Alan Paine. In 1952, men's clothiers were offering "Cashmere Major" v-neck pullover sweaters with a fabric content of 50% cashmere and 50% wool. In 1956, "Cashmere Major" sweaters were advertised as being made of 55% cashmere and 45% wool. The ads didn't indicate if those sweaters were associated with Alan Paine.

Were they two unrelated companies, and then Alan Paine bought Cashmere Major? Or was Cashmere Major always a division of Alan Paine? I haven't been able to determine that yet.

In any case, it appears as though "Cashmere Major" was nothing more than an arbitrary brand name; it wasn't intended to imply anything about the quality or weight of the garment that the label was attached to.


----------



## Charles Dana

Vecchio Vespa said:


> With that brand and that store I would guess it is a very fine sweater.


Yes.

Robert Kirk Ltd. still exists, sort of. It's DNA has been absorbed into the current Cable Car Clothiers.

Robert Kirk did sell and Cable Car Clothiers does sell high-quality merchandise. CCC is really pricey, though. I walk past that store several times a week. Did so yesterday, in fact. I'm always tempted to go in and browse, but my wallet says, "You stay the hell out of there!"

"Well OK!"

Weird that I regularly find myself 4 feet from Cable Car's front door, but I get my trad garments from O'Connell's, thousands of miles away.


----------



## IrvingS

Charles Dana said:


> I couldn't find much about the term "Cashmere Major." It originally seems to have been a brand name apart from Alan Paine. In 1952, men's clothiers were offering "Cashmere Major" v-neck pullover sweaters with a fabric content of 50% cashmere and 50% wool. In 1956, "Cashmere Major" sweaters were advertised as being made of 55% cashmere and 45% wool. The ads didn't indicate if those sweaters were associated with Alan Paine.
> 
> Were they two unrelated companies, and then Alan Paine bought Cashmere Major? Or was Cashmere Major always a division of Alan Paine? I haven't been able to determine that yet.
> 
> In any case, it appears as though "Cashmere Major" was nothing more than an arbitrary brand name; it wasn't intended to imply anything about the quality or weight of the garment that the label was attached to.


HI, Thank you all so much. That makes sense that it might be a blend. I have some similar vintage 100% cashmere sweaters and they are much lighter and softer. This feels more like my vintage 70/30 cashmere/wool scarves. Should I assume this might be a pre 1960 Alan Paine label as material content was mandated by congress in the late 1950s(?) and my other vintage Alan Paine sweaters list material content? Reminds me of the Dan River and Galey and Lord fabrics: You have to be familiar with the era to know what they mean. I was hoping for an all cashmere sweater, but it still is nice, will be more than warm enough, probably will last longer than all cashmere, but is a bit heavier than my all cashmere ones.

I wish there was a more systematic web site for dating these labels. I know there is the "Fashion Guild" pages but they seem to have more women's labels and are incomplete, especially for men's labels.

By the way, I grew up in San Francisco, so I am always nostalgic for any old SF and Bay Area store labels.

Cheers!


----------



## Rosarito

Gray (black and white) herringbone sport jacket… what pants/trousers? Every photo example I see online, even from retailers, show models wearing this item with blue jeans. I usually only wear it with jeans as well because I don’t love it with any of my others trousers. What are the go-to combinations for this type of jacket?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Rosarito said:


> Gray (black and white) herringbone sport jacket&#8230; what pants/trousers? Every photo example I see online, even from retailers, show models wearing this item with blue jeans. I usually only wear it with jeans as well because I don't love it with any of my others trousers. What are the go-to combinations for this type of jacket?


I wear mine with grey tropical worsteds or flannels, depending on the temperature, if wearing a tie. For casual I wear it with khakis. In between I liked it with gabs.


----------



## Rosarito

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I wear mine with grey tropical worsteds or flannels, depending on the temperature, if wearing a tie.


A darker grey than the jacket?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Rosarito said:


> A darker grey than the jacket?


Yes. Anything up to charcoal works. In my opinion herringbone tweed works best with solid color trousers without much variation in their texture. For example, I don't like cords with it. Shirts are another matter. I am very partial to blue or pink university striped OCBDs with grey herringbone.


----------



## Charles Dana

IrvingS said:


> HI, Thank you all so much. That makes sense that it might be a blend. I have some similar vintage 100% cashmere sweaters and they are much lighter and softer. This feels more like my vintage 70/30 cashmere/wool scarves. Should I assume this might be a pre 1960 Alan Paine label as material content was mandated by congress in the late 1950s(?) and my other vintage Alan Paine sweaters list material content?


IrvingS-

I have more information about the term "Cashmere Major."

It turns out that you were almost correct when you speculated whether the term "Cashmere Major" might denote "a majority cashmere blended with wool."

"Cashmere Major" was neither a stand-alone sweater company nor a division of Alan Paine. Rather, "Cashmere Major" was a registered trademark belonging to Alan Paine.

As you suspected, it was the proprietary term that Alan Paine used when referring to its sweaters that were made of a cashmere/wool blend, though not necessarily a blend in which cashmere was the dominant fabric.

From a clothier's advertisement in the New York Times dated September 16, 1962:

"Alan Paine sweaters are superbly fashioned of 100% pure cashmere, Cashmere Major®, lambswool, Shetland, vicuña, and luxurious 4-ply pure camelhair."

Advertisements in the 1950s and early 1960s indicated that some Alan Paine sweaters were made of either a 50/50 or a 55/45 blend of cashmere and wool, with cashmere being the equal or the dominant fabric. Sometimes, but not always, these blended sweaters were designated by the term "Cashmere Major." Other times they were simply called "Alan Paine sweaters," with the blended fabric described in the ad copy.

(What confused me yesterday when I looked into the matter is that some clothiers' ads mentioned "Cashmere Major" without any mention of Alan Paine. They'd say, "Cashmere Major sweaters are $22.50." That gave me the impression that the term may have been a brand name. Further research has disabused me of that notion.)

I wasn't able to find any mention of "Cashmere Major" in Alan Paine's advertisements after September 16, 1962. (I'm not saying there weren't any-just that I couldn't find any.)

It appears, then, as though your sweater might be a pre-1963 item. And if what you said about disclosing fabric content on the labels is correct, I guess you might have a pre-1960 garment.


----------



## Fading Fast

Rosarito said:


> Gray (black and white) herringbone sport jacket&#8230; what pants/trousers? Every photo example I see online, even from retailers, show models wearing this item with blue jeans. I usually only wear it with jeans as well because I don't love it with any of my others trousers. What are the go-to combinations for this type of jacket?


You're asking about my favorite sport coat - I have several versions.

Yes it goes with jeans, but also with chinos and, as others have noted above, grey dress trousers. Also noted above, some thought has to be given as to the tone and darkness of the grey trousers versus the grey herringbone jacket, but no "rule" can be given as a "grey" herringbone jacket can be very light to very dark and everything in between.

As opposed to @Vecchio Vespa, whose opinion I greatly respect, I like it with cords, especially wide wale (chunky) cords as I think the textures work well together.

I have worn a grey herringbone sport coat as my go-to sport coat for three decades now and find, with the obvious exceptions, it goes with most trousers. I love taking it on vacation as I can dress it down with jeans or casual chinos or up with creased chinos or dress trousers.


----------



## never behind

Fading Fast said:


> You're asking about my favorite sport coat - I have several versions.
> 
> Yes it goes with jeans, but also with chinos and, as others have noted above, grey dress trousers. Also noted above, some thought has to be given as to the tone and darkness of the grey trousers versus the grey herringbone jacket, but no "rule" can be given as a "grey" herringbone jacket can be very light to very dark and everything in between.
> 
> As opposed to @Vecchio Vespa, whose opinion I greatly respect, I like it with cords, especially wide wale (chunky) cords as I think the textures work well together.
> 
> I have worn a grey herringbone sport coat as my go-to sport coat for three decades now and find, with the obvious exceptions, it goes with most trousers. I love taking it on vacation as I can dress it down with jeans or casual chinos or up with creased chinos or dress trousers.


I've worn mine with moleskins and thought it paired well. Not a great pic but an idea of what it looks like.

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/threads/what-are-you-wearing-today-2-0.238564/post-1965265


----------



## Fading Fast

never behind said:


> I've worn mine with moleskins and thought it paired well. Not a great pic but an idea of what it looks like.
> 
> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/threads/what-are-you-wearing-today-2-0.238564/post-1965265


Nice outfit, it looks good. The weight of the moleskins looks good with the Tweed.

For no reason whatsoever, I've never owned a pair of moleskin pants. It's one of the Trad items I've never bought and I don't really know why.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Nice outfit, it looks good. The weight of the moleskins looks good with the Tweed.
> 
> For no reason whatsoever, I've never owned a pair of moleskin pants. It's one of the Trad items I've never bought and I don't really know why.


Me either. I am also rethinking heavier cords and herringbone. It might be a great way to pair olive or moss with the grey.


----------



## never behind

I really like my moleskins. The fabric is soft and warm. Like warm, fuzzy chinos.


----------



## phzanella

I have a few tattersall shirts in my collection. What types of ties can I wear? Are neat florals safe to pair?


----------



## Charles Dana

phzanella said:


> I have a few tattersall shirts in my collection. What types of ties can I wear? Are neat florals safe to pair?


When in doubt, play it safe: Go with solid silk knit or wool ties-dark green, burgundy, dark blue, for example-whichever color will complement the colors of the shirt you've selected for the day.

Also consider silk ties with a hunting motif-ones that have a widely-spaced pattern of pheasants or geese or dogs, etc. You might want to avoid an image of a dog carrying a dead duck in its mouth. That might be a bit fashion forward.

You asked about neat florals. I don't know. You should make sure that the scale of the tie's pattern and the scale of the horizontal and vertical lines on the shirt are not similar. Neat florals paired with the shirt could look busy, but I'd need to see photos of the ties and shirts to be sure.


----------



## phzanella

Any tips on buying used suits? Do you gents buy the jackets separately and try to pair up orphaned trousers? Seems like I can find jackets in 40R, but never any matched trousers in 32x32 on ebay.


----------



## ThomGault

phzanella said:


> Do you gents buy the jackets separately and try to pair up orphaned trousers?


No. The parts of a suit need to match perfectly. A suit jacket is not a blazer and generally shouldn't be worn with odd trousers; it will also be nearly impossible to find exactly matching trousers. If you want a suit, buy a suit. If you want a sport coat/blazer, buy a sport coat/blazer.

If you buy a used suit, be aware that it may have been altered for a previous owner, and therefore will likely need further alterations to fit you well. Additionally, previous alterations may make further alterations more difficult/impossible. E.g., if trousers were originally waist size X, and were previously altered to X-3, you probably couldn't further alter them to X-3-3, and you won't necessarily discover this problem until you take the trousers to a tailor.


----------



## Mike Petrik

phzanella said:


> Any tips on buying used suits? Do you gents buy the jackets separately and try to pair up orphaned trousers? Seems like I can find jackets in 40R, but never any matched trousers in 32x32 on ebay.


ThomGault is right. It is not possible to make a proper suit out of used separates.

On the other hand one can theoretically employ suit trousers as odd trousers and a suit jacket as a sport coat, but in most cases this is best left to gents who really know what they are doing. One exception is seersucker, where both the trousers and the jacket can be used as separates. In addition, solid suit trousers are usually easily serviceable as odd trousers. Finally, a solid navy suit jacket can be used in a pinch as an acceptable blazer, though well-dressed gents would consider this suboptimal. There are other exceptions, but in general one should be cautious about using suit trousers and jackets as odd trousers and sport coats.


----------



## IrvingS

Charles Dana said:


> IrvingS-
> 
> I have more information about the term "Cashmere Major."
> 
> It turns out that you were almost correct when you speculated whether the term "Cashmere Major" might denote "a majority cashmere blended with wool."
> 
> "Cashmere Major" was neither a stand-alone sweater company nor a division of Alan Paine. Rather, "Cashmere Major" was a registered trademark belonging to Alan Paine.
> 
> As you suspected, it was the proprietary term that Alan Paine used when referring to its sweaters that were made of a cashmere/wool blend, though not necessarily a blend in which cashmere was the dominant fabric.
> 
> From a clothier's advertisement in the New York Times dated September 16, 1962:
> 
> "Alan Paine sweaters are superbly fashioned of 100% pure cashmere, Cashmere Major®, lambswool, Shetland, vicuña, and luxurious 4-ply pure camelhair."
> 
> Advertisements in the 1950s and early 1960s indicated that some Alan Paine sweaters were made of either a 50/50 or a 55/45 blend of cashmere and wool, with cashmere being the equal or the dominant fabric. Sometimes, but not always, these blended sweaters were designated by the term "Cashmere Major." Other times they were simply called "Alan Paine sweaters," with the blended fabric described in the ad copy.
> 
> (What confused me yesterday when I looked into the matter is that some clothiers' ads mentioned "Cashmere Major" without any mention of Alan Paine. They'd say, "Cashmere Major sweaters are $22.50." That gave me the impression that the term may have been a brand name. Further research has disabused me of that notion.)
> 
> I wasn't able to find any mention of "Cashmere Major" in Alan Paine's advertisements after September 16, 1962. (I'm not saying there weren't any-just that I couldn't find any.)
> 
> It appears, then, as though your sweater might be a pre-1963 item. And if what you said about disclosing fabric content on the labels is correct, I guess you might have a pre-1960 garment.


Thank you for all this great information. WOW!!!!

I wonder what type of wool it is blended with (not some weird version of polyester)? I wish there was a dedicated forum for discussing and cataloging these vintage labels and brands.

As for the sweater, it is nice and solid, well preserved, and nothing less than one would expect from a vintage Alan Paine. I own a number of vintage sweaters in shetland, alpaca, and cashmere, but I only have a few blends such as a couple of 1960s Towne and King sweater vests that are a blend of 85% lambswool and 15% kid mohair, a Penny's Towncraft Plus 50/50 wool/alpaca Cardigan (like the old Arnold Palmer Golf Sweaters), and an old Dick Van **** by Edgeworth 75/25 Mohair/Wool Cardigan. I probably would have passed up this wool/cashmere blend except for the fact of the old San Francisco Robert Kirk tag and the fact that I didn't have this color in any of my v necks. Still, as long as there is no polyester in it, I'm good to go.

Cheers!


----------



## ran23

Take a look at SaveASuit on ebay, a non-profit. I got a Hickey Freeman there for less than $100. Just had to wait for my measurements to come up.


----------



## phzanella

What are your favorite options for affordable dress socks (under 5) and underwear?
What are your favorite options for affordable belting?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I am not aware of any socks at that price point other than what you can find in "deal" stores, but the large department chains like Macy's will almost always have good stuff in the 3 for $20 range. As regards underwear the answer really depends on the sort you prefer. Ditto for belts. I am a big proponent of buying less stuff but of a high enough quality that it will really last. Most of my socks and underwear are close to ten years old. I love the belts from Eliza B/Leather Man. They are very solid and will not wear and tire quickly. Of course it helps to favor traditional clothing that does not go in or out of style,


----------



## ran23

Bancroft Suits?? there is a 40-S on ebay for about $20 (sale). I have few 40 suits and lots of 38 jacket that are too tight now. I have two better suits and this would be a casual/ travel suit. Good measurements, except tailor the sleeves.
Just found out it is 60% poly. too bad


----------



## August West

I've never owned a flannel suit. I'm thinking about getting one. The current Press offerings look temping. I've got a trip to London planned for the beginning of Oct, which would be the suits maiden voyage should I chose to make the purchase. Temps then average low in the 50's and highs typically low to mid 60's; though anyone that's been to London knows it just about always feels colder than the numbers due to dampness, relatively lack of sunshine etc.

I do spend a fair amount of time outside walking from meeting to meeting around the city. I don't ever stay in any one spot indoors for more than 2 hours at a time. 
Thoughts on whether or not I'm pushing the envelope wearing flannel in London early Oct? I'm thinking I may be, but I'm open to someone swaying me in the other direction.


----------



## Fading Fast

August West said:


> I've never owned a flannel suit. I'm thinking about getting one. The current Press offerings look temping. I've got a trip to London planned for the beginning of Oct, which would be the suits maiden voyage should I chose to make the purchase. Temps then average low in the 50's and highs typically low to mid 60's; though anyone that's been to London knows it just about always feels colder than the numbers due to dampness, relatively lack of sunshine etc.
> 
> I do spend a fair amount of time outside walking from meeting to meeting around the city. I don't ever stay in any one spot indoors for more than 2 hours at a time.
> Thoughts on whether or not I'm pushing the envelope wearing flannel in London early Oct? I'm thinking I may be, but I'm open to someone swaying me in the other direction.


I love flannel and think 50s is perfect for what you plan as you won't need a coat over your suit as the flannel will provide enough warmth when outside. Even the low 60s is fine for flannel, especially, as you note, if it is damp. So outside, I think you'll be fine. I am also fine inside in a flannel suit even if the room is, say 70, as long as I can take the suit jacket off when I feel like it. Sounds like a good trip - enjoy.


----------



## August West

Fading Fast said:


> I love flannel and think 50s is perfect for what you plan as you won't need a coat over your suit as the flannel will provide enough warmth when outside. Even the low 60s is fine for flannel, especially, as you note, if it is damp. So outside, I think you'll be fine. I am also fine inside in a flannel suit even if the room is, say 70, as long as I can take the suit jacket off when I feel like it. Sounds like a good trip - enjoy.


Thanks Fading. I'm runing the London Marathon first weekend of Oct, and decided to make a work trip out of it while I'm there. Wish I could say I was mixing business with pleaure, but the marathon is more pain than pleasure.

I was thinking the same thing about not needed a coat. I jump a lot from office to office, restaurant to pub etc. Having to deal with taking a coat on and off is always a hassle.

As to taking the suit jacket off, even 10 years ago over there that was a big no no, but now things are much more relaxed, relatively speaking .


----------



## phzanella

What is the difference between dress pants, slacks, trousers, chinos & khakis?

I don't wear a suit to work, but wear a lab coat. I own two suits but don't want to wear out the matched pants faster than the jacket. What type of pants should I be looking for other than dark colored cotton chinos?


----------



## LewisDias

I'm thinking about buying a patagonia better sweater but I'd like your opinion if this will only work for walking outdoors or if it will also look good casually with a shirt underneath and a chino or jeans?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

phzanella said:


> What is the difference between dress pants, slacks, trousers, chinos & khakis?
> 
> I don't wear a suit to work, but wear a lab coat. I own two suits but don't want to wear out the matched pants faster than the jacket. What type of pants should I be looking for other than dark colored cotton chinos?


In my opinion slacks connotes dressy trousers or pants. Dress pants generally connotes pants that are tailored and have noticeable drape. Khakis and chinos seem to be interchangeable terms for cotton twills that are certainly more tailored than jeans but are stiff enough not to drape the way something like a tropical worsted or a wool flannel would.

For your proposed use I'd look at gabardines and, in hotter months, poplins and seersucker. When it gets cooler fine wake cords may work well. I do not know what colors you like, but for pants that are the least bit dressy I like the entire spectrum of greys, olives, and taupes. I tend to shy away from navy except for suits. Some patterns like glen plaids can break the monotony.

Since we are on the Trad forum, I also love the rare but festive wearing of go to hell pants like bright red or purple cords. Critter pants would not be work friendly.

Have fun!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

LewisDias said:


> I'm thinking about buying a patagonia better sweater but I'd like your opinion if this will only work for walking outdoors or if it will also look good casually with a shirt underneath and a chino or jeans?
> View attachment 63793


Outdoors only and for anything. Nice looking.


----------



## phzanella

Came across this tie online in a sale that has ended and the listing is gone. Anyone have an idea where I can find a similar tie?

Also are Borrelli pants with a composition of 66/33 polyester/cotton worthwhile?


----------



## Corcovado

Does anybody know an Alden dealer who would take an order for the LHS loafer in cigar shell?


----------



## Eligius

Corcovado said:


> Does anybody know an Alden dealer who would take an order for the LHS loafer in cigar shell?


The only retailer I have seen list cigar shell shoes for sale to the general public on their website is Lost & Found in Toronto. They have a cigar tassel on there that is sold out. It may be worth contacting them.


----------



## Charles Dana

Corcovado said:


> Does anybody know an Alden dealer who would take an order for the LHS loafer in cigar shell?


Do you wear D width, anywhere from 6.5 to 11.5? And can you wait 4 to 6 months? If the answer to both questions is "yes," then Jim at the Alden store in San Francisco can help you. His phone number is (415) 421-6691.

Alden is just starting a limited run of the shoes you're looking for, hence the limited sizes and the lengthy wait.


----------



## phzanella

Are Loake and Charles Tyrwhitt Dress Shoes tagged in UK sizes or USA Sizes? Having a really hard time buying a pair of fitting dress shoes.


----------



## Guest

The Brooks Brothers OCBD's are now S, M, L etc.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Orig...var_MG03898_Color=YLLT&contentpos=5&cgid=0207
Anyone have any experience with the sizing. I'm thinking if I'm 14.5 / 32 I would be small?


----------



## Fading Fast

Guest-858271 said:


> The Brooks Brothers OCBD's are now S, M, L etc.
> 
> https://www.brooksbrothers.com/Orig...var_MG03898_Color=YLLT&contentpos=5&cgid=0207
> Anyone have any experience with the sizing. I'm thinking if I'm 14.5 / 32 I would be small?


I have not ordered the new BB OCBD, but your size traditionally would be small. That said, if you are really looking for a OCBD dress shirt to wear with a tie, I would encourage you to buy an OCBD from a manufacturer that has numerical sizing like Press, Mercer or Proper Cloth - there are other brands as well.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I have not ordered the new BB OCBD, but your size traditionally would be small. That said, if you are really looking for a OCBD dress shirt to wear with a tie, I would encourage you to buy an OCBD from a manufacturer that has numerical sizing like Press, Mercer or Proper Cloth - there are other brands as well.


I would encourage it even if you do not plan to wear a tie. Cuffs that are too long or too short look odd and are a perpetual nuisance. Shortening a sleeve is not particularly easy, and the operation may still look imperfect around the shoulder seam or cuff, depending which is used for the shortening.


----------



## Corcovado

Personally I am extremely reluctant to pay anything in the neighborhood of Brooks Brothers pricing for a shirt that's sized S-M-L-XL.


----------



## Guest

Thank you to Fading Fast and Vecchio Vespa! You make really great points and I will opt to get something with exact sleeve lenghts. I looked and Ratio and Proper cloth have options for about the same price and I can get something in my exact measurements. Cheers!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Guest-546203 said:


> Thank you to Fading Fast and Vecchio Vespa! You make really great points and I will opt to get something with exact sleeve lenghts. I looked and Ratio and Proper cloth have options for about the same price and I can get something in my exact measurements. Cheers!


Great info about alternative sources. Given that the average cost for sleeve shortening is around $25 and that sleeve lengthening is not possible Ratio and Proper may ultimately prove to be cost effective!


----------



## Corcovado

Has any member ever purchased rugby shirts from J Press? According to their size chart, a 44 chest is a medium, which is a little jarring. I'm more inclined to order large, as these garments tend to shrink in the wash anyway. Just wondering if anyone else has tried these. Thanks.


----------



## Fading Fast

On Brooks Brothers site, they describe the first coat below as a "double-breasted trench coat," which other than being very short, seems about right and the second one as a "single-breasted trench coat," but to me, it looks like a Macintosh not a trench.

Thoughts?

BB's Double Breasted Trench Coat









BB's Single-Breasted "Macintosh"


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> On Brooks Brothers site, they describe the first coat below as a "double-breasted trench coat," which other than being very short, seems about right and the second one as a "single-breasted trench coat," but to me, it looks like a Macintosh not a trench.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> BB's Double Breasted Trench Coat
> View attachment 67761
> 
> 
> BB's Single-Breasted "Macintosh"
> View attachment 67763


Agreed.


----------



## fishertw

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Agreed.


The lack of comprehension by the BB marketing folks never ceases to amaze me.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

fishertw said:


> The lack of comprehension by the BB marketing folks never ceases to amaze me.


Clearly they do not communicate with Mr. Bastian, who seems to know and appreciate very small and subtle details. If you are going to sell a very specific type of clothing to a very specific type of buyer, using correct terminology is essential. Using incorrect terminology reveals you as a poseur. I wager that if the Brooks employee who did this wears Brooks' clothing, he is sporting a tweed blazer!

Also, back when Brooks Brothers was Brooks Brothers, in 1976, I bought a similar short, double breasted trench from them. I hated that coat, and a few years later I made what was probably my only non-Brooks apparel purchase of that decade, a Burberry. Trench coats, indeed all raincoats, ought to be long enough to keep you dry!


----------



## Fading Fast

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Clearly they do not communicate with Mr. Bastian, who seems to know and appreciate very small and subtle details. If you are going to sella very specific type of clothing to a very specific type of buyer, using correct terminology is essential. Using incorrect terminology reveals you as a poseur. I wager that if the Brooks employee who did this wears Brooks' clothing, he is sporting a tweed blazer!


I agree. I think using the correct terminology helps Brooks and other retailers educate the public to the variation in clothes and their different purposes/styles.

It's really in BBs interest to have its clients know that there are trench coats and Macintosh coats, or that a blazer is different from a sport coat as, in theory, the client will see the advantages of one versus the other and aspire to buy more.

In general (in almost any field), you want your customers to appreciate the nuances and distinctions in the different items you sell, yet you undermine that by sloppy use of terminology: "Oh, Mr. Client, I know you have a nice Tweed sport coat, but I think you need a classic navy blazer to fill out your wardrobe." "But you called the Tweed sport coat a blazer last time, so why do I need another blazer?"


----------



## GregorSamsa

What color Shetland would you trads consider the most versatile?


----------



## Peak and Pine

GregorSamsa said:


> What color Shetland would you trads consider the most versatile?


Oatmeal heather.
But my Trad license expired in '69 so maybe It's grain o'salt time.


----------



## Fading Fast

GregorSamsa said:


> What color Shetland would you trads consider the most versatile?


Medium to light grey almost goes with everything.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

It depends on the other colors that predominate in your wardrobe of things that would be worn with the sweater. I wear khakis, occasionally olive, or faded 501s with solid or striped blue or pink OCBDs or denim. I find navy or medium grey great with all of them. If you wear more browns or reds, the oatmeal would be a great choice.


----------



## ztrad5

Hi all,
I am looking to expand my fall/winter sport coat collection. I have a classic Southwick gray herringbone tweed from O'Connell's as well as a Brooks Brothers Loro Piana tan camel hair sport coat. Both are excellent. I went non-trad on a third sportcoat which was a Suit Supply brown check Zegna wool/silk/cashmere blend - it is a bit lighter than the other two. In terms of getting another tweed, I am eyeing the charcoal Southwick from O'Connell's. They state on the description that it a throwback to classic Ivy League look - is anyone familiar with charcoal tweed as being the staple Ivy look? I am pairing these with Alden Tassels in Cordovan color 8 as well as Gucci horsebit loafers. Thanks!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

ztrad5 said:


> Hi all,
> I am looking to expand my fall/winter sport coat collection. I have a classic Southwick gray herringbone tweed from O'Connell's as well as a Brooks Brothers Loro Piana tan camel hair sport coat. Both are excellent. I went non-trad on a third sportcoat which was a Suit Supply brown check Zegna wool/silk/cashmere blend - it is a bit lighter than the other two. In terms of getting another tweed, I am eyeing the charcoal Southwick from O'Connell's. They state on the description that it a throwback to classic Ivy League look - is anyone familiar with charcoal tweed as being the staple Ivy look? I am pairing these with Alden Tassels in Cordovan color 8 as well as Gucci horsebit loafers. Thanks!


Charcoal tweed is a great and very traditional choice, but you might consider expanding your color palette, perhaps with an olive or taupe, or a wildly different pattern like a large glen plaid.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Oatmeal heather.
> But my Trad license expired in '69 so maybe It's grain o'salt time.


Oatmeal Heather would be my first choice, followed by a pale blue heather.


----------



## fred johnson

GregorSamsa said:


> What color Shetland would you trads consider the most versatile?


dark blue, with light gray a close second.


----------



## never behind

So you all would rate Oatmeal Heather as more versatile than a Mushroom? I had Mushroom next on my list, but I am really bad with colors. If it helps all my winter trousers are a shade or grey or brown, save one green tweed. I don't wear denim much.

Here are O'Connell's offerrings.

Heathered Oat








Mushroom


----------



## Corcovado

never behind said:


> So you all would rate Oatmeal Heather as more versatile than a Mushroom? I had Mushroom next on my list, but I am really bad with colors. If it helps all my winter trousers are a shade or grey or brown, save one green tweed. I don't wear denim much.
> 
> Here are O'Connell's offerrings.
> 
> Heathered Oat
> View attachment 68739
> 
> Mushroom
> View attachment 68741


Those two are both very nice and quite similar, and if you were to imagine a collection of 5 or 6 sweaters it probably wouldn't have both of them. (Unless you just can't get enough light colored, earth-toned sweaters.) I think those two are equally versatile. I would pick the one that you think you'd look best in, or would go best with certain other items of clothing in your wardrobe that you might wear with it like a favorite pair of corduroy pants.


----------



## IrvingS

Hi All, I am looking for advice.

I have a late 1950s Brooks Brothers Makers Heavy Tweed sport coat. It has amazing quality and I love its heft and warmth but it does not fit. Though it is a labeled "long" size, the label's size indication is purposely blacked out. The chest fits perfect, as does the jacket length but the shoulders are a bit wide (18.5", I normally wear 40-41 Long, 17.75-18") and the sleeves are really short at 24". There is a 4" of extra material to let them out but there are hand stitched faux button holes sewn onto the sleeves (I have noticed these in 1950s/60s high end Brooks Brothers "Maker" labeled sport coats). I know late 1950s Brooks jackets had different shoulders compared to later, more spalla camicia than natural, See this Ivy Style Article article:
Ivy Style Article

Still, between the short sleeve that would loose the button hole detail and the slightly too wide shoudlers, I am thinking better to sell to someone who can fit it?

Any advice?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

If it is that old and needs to be let out so much you would lose the buttons, I'd either sell it or learn to enjoy it, despite weird cuffs, to keep me warm.


----------



## HunterCF

As a tall thin dude, are sack style suits going to be flattering for me? I am a 40l jacket and a 32 trouser 34 inseam. Or should I stick to more modern Italian inspired tapered styles?


----------



## Fading Fast

HunterCF said:


> As a tall thin dude, are sack style suits going to be flattering for me? I am a 40l jacket and a 32 trouser 34 inseam. Or should I stick to more modern Italian inspired tapered styles?


I knew one day I'd meet my fit doppleganger. I'm a 40L, 32" waist and 32/33 inseam (so maybe not a perfect doppleganger, but still).

My experience with sacks is it all comes down to the general "cut" of the sack in question and, then, the skill of the tailor. To wit, today, most clothes are cut slimmer (even the not-advertised-as-skinny cuts), so a sack will be cutter slimmer now than in the '90s or '00s.

Also, a good tailor can provide some additional "slimming" where needed without hurting the integrity of the sack itself. So, someone with our build will do fine with many modern sacks.

That said, a sack is not supposed to fit like a slim-fit Italian-inspired-style jacket, so you have to decide if you really want a sack or not.


----------



## Mike Petrik

IMO sacks are not supposed to be so much flattering as forgiving. They look good on almost all men but are not designed to highlight one's physique so much as disguise it, and as such they have the virtue of compensating for physical imperfections. Sacks derive from an era when modesty was still a virtue and self-display smacked of immature self-absorption. It was another time.


----------



## 127.72 MHz

^^ 
Mike,
Your assessment and commentary are spot on.


----------



## Mike Petrik

127.72 MHz said:


> ^^
> Mike,
> Your assessment and commentary are spot on.


Thank you, my friend.


----------



## ztrad5

Hi all, I was hoping for your thoughts on the Schott 714US knee-length peacoat. It is essentially their classic winter peacoat (32 oz Melton wool) but with a longer length that covers below the knees. I am looking to obtain a classic coat for the depths of winter in New England. The wool looks substantial enough when compared with offerings from Suit Supply, etc. Thanks!

https://www.schottnyc.com/products/mens-wool-knee-length-pea-coat.htm


----------



## Fading Fast

ztrad5 said:


> Hi all, I was hoping for your thoughts on the Schott 714US knee-length peacoat. It is essentially their classic winter peacoat (32 oz Melton wool) but with a longer length that covers below the knees. I am looking to obtain a classic coat for the depths of winter in New England. The wool looks substantial enough when compared with offerings from Suit Supply, etc. Thanks!
> 
> https://www.schottnyc.com/products/mens-wool-knee-length-pea-coat.htm


Hi, having lived in Boston years ago, that coat looks like a good choice as it has the length and heft to provide the warmth you'll need. Personally, I like having my heaviest overcoat hit mid-calf, but that is a very dated look by today's standards. If the peacoat hits you below the knee, as you say it will, you should be fine. Plus, the double-breasted style will give you added warmth where the material overlaps.


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## ran23

Now that there are more fun masks out there (Bows-N-Ties), nice Bengal stripes, plaids, gingham, and flowers (like a tie), I guess I should treat them like a Pocket Square and not match anything else? [Bows-N-Ties masks are $5.94 this weekend]


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## 215339

My favourite clothing company are releasing their take on a sack cut, what do you all think?

@Peak and Pine

It's not for me, but I could see myself wearing this cut in a corduroy suit.










Feedback on styleforum seemed to amount to a bit more waist suppression, and a bigger chest pocket.


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## Mike Petrik

delicious_scent said:


> My favourite clothing company are releasing their take on a sack cut, what do you all think?
> 
> @Peak and Pine
> 
> It's not for me, but I could see myself wearing this cut in a corduroy suit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feedback on styleforum seemed to amount to a bit more waist suppression, and a bigger chest pocket.


I think it is very handsome and would not mess with the waist, but agree that the pocket could be a tad larger.


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## 215339

Mike Petrik said:


> I think it is very handsome and would not mess with the waist, but agree that the pocket could be a tad larger.


I've been digging a looser waist on suits and sports coats every year.

I know it doesn't look as sexy or dramatic, but man is it comfortable. No need to even unbutton the jacket when seated.


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## Vecchio Vespa

delicious_scent said:


> I've been digging a looser waist on suits and sports coats every year.
> 
> I know it doesn't look as sexy or dramatic, but man is it comfortable. No need to even unbutton the jacket when seated.


I have worn sack suits and jackets since I had a 26" waist. Now nearly a 35", they are still my favorites.


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## Mike Petrik

delicious_scent said:


> I've been digging a looser waist on suits and sports coats every year.
> 
> I know it doesn't look as sexy or dramatic, but man is it comfortable. No need to even unbutton the jacket when seated.


More men would be better dressed if they knew that it does not have to be incompatible with comfort.


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## 215339

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I have worn sack suits and jackets since I had a 26" waist. Now nearly a 35", they are still my favorites.


Didn't click for me until a year ago. I have a narrow waist, but broad hips. I always wondered why someone would want a boxy looking cut, but now it looks appealing to me, and may even flatter my physique.

Just because I have a narrow waist, doesn't mean I constantly have to call attention to it.


Mike Petrik said:


> More men would be better dressed if they knew that it does not have to be incompatible with comfort.


This is more relevant than ever with the talk of comfort.

Rather have a comfortable jacket in the waist and be able to wear it all day while buttoned?

Or take the jacket off in discomfort and essentially end up in business casual anyway?

The former sounds appealing.

Also, this jacket supposedly has a "hook vent" which I understand to be a centre vent. I'm skeptical of that part due to my bum. Perhaps the roomier hips and waist of the jacket may make it so it's not an issue.


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## Mike Petrik

delicious_scent said:


> Didn't click for me until a year ago. I have a narrow waist, but broad hips. I always wondered why someone would want a boxy looking cut, but now it looks appealing to me, and may even flatter my physique.
> 
> Just because I have a narrow waist, doesn't mean I constantly have to call attention to it.
> 
> This is more relevant than ever with the talk of comfort.
> 
> Rather have a comfortable jacket in the waist and be able to wear it all day while buttoned?
> 
> Or take the jacket off in discomfort and essentially end up in business casual anyway?
> 
> The former sounds appealing.
> 
> Also, this jacket supposedly has a "hook vent" which I understand to be a centre vent. I'm skeptical of that part due to my bum. Perhaps the roomier hips and waist of the jacket may make it so it's not an issue.


According to J Press the hook vent more easily covers a gent's backside than an ordinary center vent.


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## 215339

Mike Petrik said:


> According to J Press the hook vent more easily covers a gent's backside than an ordinary center vent.


If true, this is great news.

Ha, I went from "It's not for me", to now wanting a full suit in the cut up there.


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## Mike Petrik

delicious_scent said:


> If true, this is great news.
> 
> Ha, I went from "It's not for me", to now wanting a full suit in the cut up there.


You should find this link interesting, especially the last few paragraphs.

http://www.ivy-style.com/the-hook-vent-trademark-of-the-ivy-leauge-look.html


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## Vecchio Vespa

Even during my most adipose years, it never occurred to me that a hook vent might expose or accentuate my posterior. I did, however, notice that side vented jackets could have a bit of an awning effect on those with more "successful" physiques.


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## FiscalDean

delicious_scent said:


> My favourite clothing company are releasing their take on a sack cut, what do you all think?
> 
> @Peak and Pine
> 
> It's not for me, but I could see myself wearing this cut in a corduroy suit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feedback on styleforum seemed to amount to a bit more waist suppression, and a bigger chest pocket.


I really like the color and the cut but I'm not a fan of the contrasting thread used on the lapel.


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## Peak and Pine

FiscalDean said:


> I really like the color and the cut but I'm not a fan of the contrasting thread used on the lapel.


On a cell with a tiny screen, blowing up the pic as mightily as possible, but see no contrast stitching on the lapel. Are you talking about the white cross stitch that keeps the button hole from sagging during packing and shipment? (Maybe he kids, am holding my sides in anticipation.)


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## FiscalDean

Peak and Pine said:


> On a cell with a tiny screen, blowing up the pic as mightily as possible, but see no contrast stitching on the lapel. Are you talking about the white cross stitch that keeps the button hole from sagging during packing and shipment? (Maybe he kids, am holding my sides in anticipation.)


Never mind, I had to enlarge the pic to see that it's actually white cross stitch. Carry on.


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## 215339

Mike Petrik said:


> You should find this link interesting, especially the last few paragraphs.
> 
> http://www.ivy-style.com/the-hook-vent-trademark-of-the-ivy-leauge-look.html


Thanks for sharing this Mike, I'm now sold on the hook vent.


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## IrvingS

Hi Everyone, I have a question about a vintage marked 1968 Hart, Schaffner, & Marx Suit I am looking at buying off of Etsy. The seller thinks its is wool but it has a slight sheen (sharkskin esc). There is an extra label that reads "Woven In England". Does anyone know what this might mean, material wise or point me towards an old advertisement that explains it? And or an opinion in this brand from this period? I need an extra black suit and would like a mid century sack style though this one is more Rat Pack than my preferred ivy style but I want to avoid a poly blend of materials. 

Many Thanks in advance!


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## Corcovado

In a couple of weeks, I am going to be a guest at a daytime wedding, which will be held shortly after Christmas. The wedding won't exactly be "informal" but it's not too fancy either. It will be held at a banquet hall with the reception immediately to follow. I have some questions about which attire is most appropriate. Consider the following options:
1. Grey suit
2. Tweed sport coat + slacks etc
3. Blue blazer + slacks etc
4. Non-tweed sport coat + slacks etc

Which approach seems best? Is option #3 not formal enough?


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## Charles Dana

Corcovado said:


> In a couple of weeks, I am going to be a guest at a daytime wedding, which will be held shortly after Christmas. The wedding won't exactly be "informal" but it's not too fancy either. It will be held at a banquet hall with the reception immediately to follow. I have some questions about which attire is most appropriate. Consider the following options:
> 1. Grey suit
> 2. Tweed sport coat + slacks etc
> 3. Blue blazer + slacks etc
> 4. Non-tweed sport coat + slacks etc
> 
> Which approach seems best? Is option #3 not formal enough?


Wear the grey suit and a white shirt. With a pink or light blue necktie to lighten up the outfit.

If that sounds too formal (though I doubt if you would be overdressed at a wedding in such a rig), then go with the blue blazer and slacks in place of the grey suit.

The remaining two options wouldn't cause a scene; they'd probably be OK at a daytime wedding that's "not too fancy."

But the word "probably" makes me nervous.

That's why I'm giving you, in order of descending preference, what my top two choices would be.


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## Vecchio Vespa

I concur on 1 followed by 3, but I'd wear a tartan bowtie as a nod to the season.


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## ran23

I got in some winter shoes with a Vibram sole. Joseph Abboud lace ups. something like brown/red Allen Edmound. I hit it with Saphir, not sure what to polish it with yet. who makes their shoes? Comfortable to wear all morning. light rain and wet concrete.


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## Vecchio Vespa

ran23 said:


> I got in some winter shoes with a Vibram sole. Joseph Abboud lace ups. something like brown/red Allen Edmound. I hit it with Saphir, not sure what to polish it with yet. who makes their shoes? Comfortable to wear all morning. light rain and wet concrete.


It appears they collaborate with AE. Perhaps their collaborator provides more than ideas. I would think it would make sense to use the same polish you would use on AE. Pics?


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## ran23

I picked up a ebay Navy Sport Coat. brand: Jacob, tag: JC645 and May 2019. Always wished there were date codes in clothes. Fits like a 40-R, 2 button, dual vent, button cuff. No tailoring needed, great fit. Doubt it is Marc Jacob, not even sure what country. Anyone heard of this?


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## Tennis Collar

ran23 said:


> I picked up a ebay Navy Sport Coat. brand: Jacob, tag: JC645 and May 2019. Always wished there were date codes in clothes. Fits like a 40-R, 2 button, dual vent, button cuff. No tailoring needed, great fit. Doubt it is Marc Jacob, not even sure what country. Anyone heard of this?


Maybe some shopping mall brands?


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## GregorSamsa

Where should one’s sleeve end on an ocbd meant for regular wear without a jacket? I wear mine daily, without a jacket or tie, and have struggled to find a sweet spot in terms of length. I have a mix of 34s and 35s. To use a pant analogy, 34 is a no break situation, though it does cover my watch, and the 35 is a full break. I’m getting some new shirts and curious which way to go. Thanks!


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## WordsWordsWords

GregorSamsa said:


> Where should one’s sleeve end on an ocbd meant for regular wear without a jacket? I wear mine daily, without a jacket or tie, and have struggled to find a sweet spot in terms of length. I have a mix of 34s and 35s. To use a pant analogy, 34 is a no break situation, though it does cover my watch, and the 35 is a full break. I’m getting some new shirts and curious which way to go. Thanks!


I was thinking about this the other day. I decided on the no break as you called it, as it seems most would suggest a regular barrel cuff end at the wrist crease. But maybe you find, as I do, that it tends to ride up the arm more when you bend your arms. I think many would agree that if you’re not wearing a jacket it matters a great deal less. So wear what’s comfortable. But from your name I’d think having enough sleeves is more a concern than sleeve length.


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## IrvingS

Hello everyone, I am looking at a vintage suit from the 1960s and the only label reads: Silvertex Quality Clothes. The seller is located in GA. Anyone know of this manufacturer or label? Many thanks in advance.


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## shygddt

Does anyone know how and why the collars on polos get chewed up? 

The BB polos were all bought on the same day, and the PRL ones were bought together as well. I've found that some shirts have fared better than others. While I do wear some colours more than others, it's not enough to explain the discrepancy. 

I'm not complaining, since these polos are at least 7 years old now, but I'm just curious. 

Polos https://imgur.com/a/TnTwQtl


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## filipeptkart

How to wear red/coral shorts casually in summer?
I always avoid wearing them, I think they are beautiful but a bit feminine and flashy


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## Charles Dana

filipeptkart said:


> How to wear red/coral shorts casually in summer?
> I always avoid wearing them, I think they are beautiful but a bit feminine and flashy
> View attachment 86703


Wear them with a navy blue polo shirt. Or a white polo shirt. 

But try navy first.

That is, if you change your mind about wearing shorts that are this color. Some people like them, some people don’t.


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## TimF

shygddt said:


> Does anyone know how and why the collars on polos get chewed up?
> 
> The BB polos were all bought on the same day, and the PRL ones were bought together as well. I've found that some shirts have fared better than others. While I do wear some colours more than others, it's not enough to explain the discrepancy.
> 
> I'm not complaining, since these polos are at least 7 years old now, but I'm just curious.
> 
> Polos https://imgur.com/a/TnTwQtl


My guess would be the idiosyncratic way you launder and dry them. I have shirts of similar vintage and they show wear in other ways, but not yours.


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## Oldsport

Charles Dana said:


> Wear them with a navy blue polo shirt. Or a white polo shirt.
> 
> But try navy first.
> 
> That is, if you change your mind about wearing shorts that are this color. Some people like them, some people don’t.


I wear with Light Blue OCBD


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## Vecchio Vespa

filipeptkart said:


> How to wear red/coral shorts casually in summer?
> I always avoid wearing them, I think they are beautiful but a bit feminine and flashy
> View attachment 86703


With both short and long Nantucket reds, I always go blue or white. If the pants or shorts are not ironed, it is usually a denim or light blue linen shirt with the sleeves rolled up. If they are not rumpled, it is a navy polo (my last choice) or a button down with the sleeves rolled up. I have gone with striped (tape stripes are especially good, blue OCBD, and blue gingham). An old pair of Nannies with a navy tee-shirt and beat up Topsiders is great for yard work or sailing. With a white polo they are good for walking the golf course on a hot summer day.


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## Corcovado

If I wear size 9.5 D in Alden's "Barrie" last, what English size would I wear in Crockett & Jones "325" last?









Pembroke Whisky Cordovan


Pembroke, our classic full brogue country-style derby shoe with wing tip design and punching detail. Made from Horween's whisky shell cordovan with double leather soles and a storm welt for added waterproof protection. From the Men's Main Collection.




www.crockettandjones.com


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## phuclong_hl

I bought some Brooks Brother dress shirt from online store. It's quite cheap. But I don't know how to check it's authentic. Can you help me please?


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## ran23

Got in a HMS suit and I need another inch out of the sleeves. Looks like there is only 1/2" in there. Is there any more in side??? Guess this will never fit.


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## Peak and Pine

ran23 said:


> Got in a HMS suit and I need another inch out of the sleeves. Looks like there is only 1/2" in there. Is there any more in side??? Guess this will never fit.


What exactly are you looking at when you look inside?

Sounds like the half inch you see is the turn-under of sleeve cloth before the lining begins. Under the lining is at least an inch more of sleeve cloth, usually. Why don't you feel with your fingers, you ought to be able to feel through the lining where the actual end of the sleeve cloth is. What's an HMS suit?


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## ran23

It's a Hart Schaffner Marx Gold Trumpeter dark grey suit. I will take it to my seamstress and see if she can fix it for me. It's a 40-short and I need about an inch to fit.


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## Peak and Pine

^
So you mean HSM, not HMS, which I think is reserved for British war ships. Good luck with the sleeves. Often possible, sometimes not.


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## ztrad5

I have a Merino peppin wool navy blazer for year round wear - any benefit in getting a flannel navy blazer? Thanks!


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## Vecchio Vespa

ztrad5 said:


> I have a Merino peppin wool navy blazer for year round wear - any benefit in getting a flannel navy blazer? Thanks!


I would say yes if you live in a climate that has cool weather in late fall through early spring. I live in Austin, Texas and wore a flannel blazer maybe three or four times last year.


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## never behind

ztrad5 said:


> I have a Merino peppin wool navy blazer for year round wear - any benefit in getting a flannel navy blazer? Thanks!


I have a doeskin blazer. Slightly heavier for fall/winter. Fabric does look nicer with heavier winter fabrics like flannels and corduroy than the smoother year-around blazer fabrics.


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## ztrad5

thanks - i'm in New England so may invest in one!


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## Vecchio Vespa

ztrad5 said:


> thanks - i'm in New England so may invest in one!


O'Connell's doeskin may still be on sale. It is a lifetime blazer in my opinion.


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## ztrad5

Vecchio Vespa said:


> O'Connell's doeskin may still be on sale. It is a lifetime blazer in my opinion.


Yes this is the one I am looking at!


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## LewisDias

Hello everyone.

I confess that I've never been much for wearing boots, but this year I'm looking to buy some waterproof ones, for rainy days.

Does anyone know the Blundstones?









In your opinion, will they wear well with khakis and a barbour or even with a tweed coat?


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## bluiewest1

Trying to find a brand of traditional penny loafers. Used to buy Sebago until the company was sold and production moved overseas. The model I was accustomed to was changed and no longer resembled the original in looks or quality. More recently I discovered that G H Bass has also sold and production moved to El Salvador. Width choices are medium and wide, no B's or C's.
I think Cole-Haan makes a traditional penny loafer, but no local retailers stock any versions. Any suggestions?


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## mhj

I'm wearing my pair of SAS 40th Anniversary penny loafers today and I think they look pretty traditional and are very wear built. I also own an array of AE and Alden's which are also very but a bit pricier.


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## coachcaseyd

Hey everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster. I went back and did some searching, but please forgive me if this is a repeat.

I have a 10 inch difference between my hip and waist (44/34). I typically wear jackets with side vents and darts and have a tailor bring in the waist if it _looks_ too loose. Many are in a “Neapolitan” cut with soft shoulders and 3-roll-2 lapels.

Recently I’ve been looking at Ivy/Trad clothing and am now wondering if the sack cut would actually be more flattering for me. Sometimes I get the sense that my current jackets look great above the hip bone, but my rear end causes issues the rest of the way down.

Anyway, is my instinct correct? Is one of the benefits of the sack cut that it is better for men with larger rear ends? There were a few posts in this thread about a year ago alluding to that, but I wanted to be sure before committing. I am open minded and willing to try out less waist suppression if it creates better lines in general.

Thank you and Merry Christmas!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

coachcaseyd said:


> Hey everyone! Long time lurker, first time poster. I went back and did some searching, but please forgive me if this is a repeat.
> 
> I have a 10 inch difference between my hip and waist (44/34). I typically wear jackets with side vents and darts and have a tailor bring in the waist if it _looks_ too loose. Many are in a “Neapolitan” cut with soft shoulders and 3-roll-2 lapels.
> 
> Recently I’ve been looking at Ivy/Trad clothing and am now wondering if the sack cut would actually be more flattering for me. Sometimes I get the sense that my current jackets look great above the hip bone, but my rear end causes issues the rest of the way down.
> 
> Anyway, is my instinct correct? Is one of the benefits of the sack cut that it is better for men with larger rear ends? There were a few posts in this thread about a year ago alluding to that, but I wanted to be sure before committing. I am open minded and willing to try out less waist suppression if it creates better lines in general.
> 
> Thank you and Merry Christmas!


Merry Christmas and welcome to Ask Andy. I love sacks. However, you will need to try one and be the final word for yourself. I would suggest that rather than springing for a high dollar item you either comb Etsy for a reasonable deal (my Chipp olive herringbone came from Etsy for under $100 and is perfection in a tweed jacket) or get something for summer like a seersucker or poplin if you do not like buying used. Summer items are generally less expensive. I remember my tailor at Brooks back in the seventies mentioning, surely not for me, that their Golden Fleece was especially well suited to a "successful physique," as opposed to the slightly more trim 346 line. I find the sack the most comfortable outer skin imaginable with its drape, soft shoulders, good sized armholes, and flattering 3 roll 2 closure. I also find that on a gentleman with a well endowed posterior, side vents can emphasize that feature more than a center vent will. Good luck! Share your results!


----------



## coachcaseyd

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Merry Christmas and welcome to Ask Andy. I love sacks. However, you will need to try one and be the final word for yourself. I would suggest that rather than springing for a high dollar item you either comb Etsy for a reasonable deal (my Chipp olive herringbone came from Etsy for under $100 and is perfection in a tweed jacket) or get something for summer like a seersucker or poplin if you do not like buying used. Summer items are generally less expensive. I remember my tailor at Brooks back in the seventies mentioning, surely not for me, that their Golden Fleece was especially well suited to a "successful physique," as opposed to the slightly more trim 346 line. I find the sack the most comfortable outer skin imaginable with its drape, soft shoulders, good sized armholes, and flattering 3 roll 2 closure. I also find that on a gentleman with a well endowed posterior, side vents can emphasize that feature more than a center vent will. Good luck! Share your results!


This is a great idea. Thank you for the quick and helpful reply!


----------

