# Armed Robbery by Children ages 14, 12, and 9 (!)



## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

A friend forwarded this to me this morning. I had to see it for myself to believe it. It's from Charleston, South Carolina. I suppose this definitely proves that the rubbish culture of 2006 is, in fact, having an effect on children, and not for the better:

* Children suspects in robbery *

'People in the store thought it was bizarre, a bunch of kids ranging from 8 to 12, all wearing surgical gloves.'
 
Rest of article:


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

JLPWCXIII said:


> I suppose this definitely proves that the rubbish culture of 2006 is, in fact, having an effect on children, and not for the better:


Of course, it's the culture! They must have been playing Grand Theft 7-11 and learned how to rob a convenience store.

Rotten parents have little to do with this scenario...


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

jbmcb said:


> Of course, it's the culture! They must have been playing Grand Theft 7-11 and learned how to rob a convenience store.
> 
> Rotten parents have little to do with this scenario...


If you take the time to re-read my post, you'll notice that I wrote that culture is 'having an effect on children'; I did not assert that it was the sole cause of this, even though culture and parents are not mutually exclusive influences.

Sarcasm alone is not a very compelling way to make a point, so I invite you to intelligently discuss the matter.


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

I think it's parenting. Kids are clay, some parents are crummy sculptors.

IMHO kids seek out boundaries, when they bounce off them a few times they tend to remain within them. When they don't hit anything they keep looking. It's a security issue for the kids.

There are kids around who are not allowed over and who my kid is not allowed to play with. My kid understands each and every rule or boundary because we discuss it at length. She doesn't rebel, she doesn't complain, she does indicate that she feels sorry for the kids whose parents don't love them enough to keep track of them


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

Chuck Franke said:


> I think it's parenting. Kids are clay, some parents are crummy sculptors.
> 
> IMHO kids seek out boundaries, when they bounce off them a few times they tend to remain within them. When they don't hit anything they keep looking. It's a security issue for the kids.
> 
> There are kids around who are not allowed over and who my kid is not allowed to play with. My kid understands each and every rule or boundary because we discuss it at length. She doesn't rebel, she doesn't complain, she does indicate that she feels sorry for the kids whose parents don't love them enough to keep track of them


Interesting. But don't you think that perhaps (somewhat recursively) the rôle of parents today, more than ever before, is also to protect their children from the dark fog of mainstream culture? Have we moved from fifty years ago 'It takes a village to raise a child' to 'It takes the entertainment industry to raise a child'? I may be wrong, of course, but it seems to me that those children were more likely to have learned how to rob a store from endless hours of watching violent television and film, than from having witnessed their parents rob stores. Therefore, culture as well as the parents would be to blame. We now have a mass culture that is largely void of (and indeed, antithetical to) the values that a good parent would wish to instill. Parents have some part in shaping this culture, and this culture has some part in shaping these parents.


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

Absolutely JLP.

25 years ago we did not have metal detectors on our schools, sex ed was not taught to third graders and what was deemed acceptable was vastly different.

I believe the greatest challenge in parenting is striking the proper balance between arming a child with knowledge and protecting them by 'filtering' their inputs. We have about a 40 minute drive each way to her school every day which is nice, great chance to talk without distractions or escape.

On the filtering side I send her to a private school where the behavior that is deemed normal in the public schools these days would never be allowed. I try to see a movie first. There are R's I'd allow and PG's I filter out. We talk all the time about drugs, about drinking, about driving foolishly. Haven't really gotten past "All bees are scum" in the birds/bees arena but as yet she still finds boys icky.

We talk about strangers and how they should be dealt with, we talk about what to do if you find yourself in a situation where the other kids are doing something you know is wrong. We talk about why daddy is going to have a GPS tracking chip implanted in her neck before she starts dating.

I gave up on the belief that there is an ideal roadmap to get it perfect but IMHO the key is to be constantly and actively rethinking the plan, questioning your own conclusions, seeking alternatives and at the same time teaching the kids to do same.


Hmmm... how to put this one into words....

Ok, very often a parent will use the explanation "Because I said so" which at various times means either 'because I am tired' or 'because it is dangerous' or 'because I would have to get off my lazy ass and put forth moderate effort'. When kids rebel and do something stupid or emulate the stupidity of others it's a lack of understanding. If the kid trusts you and believes the rules are there to protect them then there is no reason to rebel. You walk them to the boundary, lift them up so they can see the snarling wolf on the other side of said boundary and the desire to jump over that boundary is a non-issue. That's the balance between protecting a kid from the real world and showing them a glimpse of evil in order to arm them with the knowledge required to make good choices.

It's amazing how many parents don't seem to invest much thought or effort into that process. If the responsibility of raising a child doesn't quite literally scare the hell out of you then it probably isn't a great idea.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

Chuck Franke said:


> Absolutely JLP.
> 
> 25 years ago we did not have metal detectors on our schools, sex ed was not taught to third graders and what was deemed acceptable was vastly different.
> 
> ...


And some times "Because I said so" is the right answer, because I said so. I remember growing up, I may have been told to do something that maybe I didn't want to do, but I did it because my father said so! Too many children today are allowed to get away with asking "why" when told to do something.

The problem with these young children committing this robbery is so much the parents fault. Don't blame the media, don't blame the video games, don't blame anyone but the parents. Yes, movies today are more violent, more sexual and in generally more inappropriate for young children. If you don't want your children exposed to them, don't let them be around them. If you don't like the content of a video game, don't let your child play it. If your child is watching these movies or playing these games and little Johnny or Jenny's house, then don't let them associate with Johnny or Jenny.

If a child gets into their parents liquor cabinet, the parents would be held liable for not making sure the child couldn't get to the alcohol. On the other hand, if a parent allows a child to play a game or watch a movie, then society blames the movie and video game makers. The parents are responsible first and foremost.

We all need to be parents first and friends second. Be firm with your children. Set boundaries and don't waver from them. Be the same way all the time, so that your children will know what is right and wrong. Like Chuck said, kids want boundaries. They may not always like them, but they will learn to respect them. If the boundaries are flexible, then they will never learn to respect you or them.


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

I gotta agree with Treditional. Parents have to set boundries and then make their kids pay the price when these boundries are broken.
Maybe parents are just too overworked to know what's going on in their kids life. Or maybe they know but would rather not know. I still wonder how the two killers from Columbine were able to plot out such a plan for months and build bombs all right in their parents houses. Or maybe it's political correctness. Remember we cannot hurt little Jimmys feelings. Why it might harm his self esteem.
My father told me a story that took place a couple years ago. My neice who was then about 7 was waiting in line at the super market when she said something about the "*******" in front of them. Needless to say she got in BIG trouble. Seems like some of the kids on the schoolyard use this word.
So if my neice didn't know at the time this was not a nice name she sure does now.
Parents just have to keep their eyes and ears open, these things just don't happen in a vacum. There's always signs.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

JLPWCXIII said:


> If you take the time to re-read my post, you'll notice that I wrote that culture is 'having an effect on children';


I apologize, I was thrown by the "definitely proves that the rubbish culture of 2006 is" line.

A few points:

1. There has always been sleazy, base culture that caters to the lowest common denominator. Usually parents wouldn't take their children to gambling parlors or opium dens. Nowadays, some parents allow their children to watch and listen to anything.

2. A dismissal of ALL culture evident in 2006 is rather severe. I guess the Ellis Marsilles concert I'll be attending in a few months is rubbish as well.

3. I see no direct link between pop culture and the robbery. I understand they may have learned how to knock over a convenience store watching TV or a movie, however, the article makes no mention of this. For all we know, their parents ARE professional criminals. Given their actions, it's a distinct possibility.

That's all. Sorry, but I get persnicketty over sweeping cultural indictments. Also, I like lists of things


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

jbmcb said:


> I apologize, I was thrown by the "definitely proves that the rubbish culture of 2006 is" line.
> 
> A few points:
> 
> ...


Yes, there have always been beastly subcultures in every society, I would imagine. My point is that the sleaze from many different subcultures has eloped to now become 'the' mainstream culture, with the media beaming the 'gambling parlours and opium dens' (and a lot worse) into every house. and into every little growing mind. I am unfamiliar with the concert you will be attending, but if it is classical it cannot be considered to be 'mainstream culture' anymore, tragically. This may be an unbreachable paradigm difference between you and me, but I don't believe that parents deserve 100% of the blame when their children misbehave. Neither do I believe that parents deserve 100% of the credit when their children behave wonderfully. In each case the child deserves a measure of blame or credit, and likewise the social context and culture. The more that mainstream culture is a cesspool, the more difficult it will be for good parents to bring up their children to be healthy and moral adults. Parents and culture, nature and nurture, are irrevocably interwined influences.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I am not so old as to not remember hearing how my generation was a sign of the end times. So I am always leery to sound like a grup and say this generation is a sign of the end times. However, sometimes it is hard not to. This article is one of those times.

We have to admit that we, each and every one of us, is culpable to some degree for the state of mainstream society today. Do you watch reality TV of any kind? "Cops" for instance? Or the bewildering array of shows where vapid women try to land a shallow and/or worthless man? Or indulge in recreational drugs? Do you have your child in day care so both spouses can work and you can afford that <insert unneeded luxury item here>? Did we need to know the inner working of Clinton's sexlife (for you Repubs)? Did you secretly cheer when Clinton defined oral sex as not being sex and got away with it (for you Dems)? Have you ever put the goals of your political affiliation over the good of our children?

The list goes on.

The story posted and my opinion? Just execute those kids now. Horrible thing to say? I think it is. However a physician must cut out cancer as early as possible to save a patient. Those kids are tumours.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

*All is not lost...*

While I may be a 'grup' and a grumpy old man, I am not comvinced that all popular culture is bad. And while political correctness has often been pushed beyond the limits of rational thought, there are some encouraging trends in modern society. Among them I include: 50% of our population (women) have more choices in determining their own futures; discrimination based on race/sex etc is viewed as a bad thing; gay and lesbian are less likely to be beaten up on the streets. I do see many bad elements in contemporary society - but it is a mixed bag. Perhaps I simply a product of Jesuit education and read too much Teilhard de Chardin.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> *Have you ever put* the *goals* of your political affiliation *over the good of our children?*


Wayfarer, makes a very good point and to some extent a valid excuse for some of the younger parents today. My generation (I'm 37) has been raised with life being fairly easy. We've had significantly more than our parents had and in turn want to give as much or more to our children. So, for many of us this means the 5,000 sq ft house, 2 BMW's, a housekeeper, and our little ones being raised by strangers (i.e. daycare).

Why are our children raised by strangers, because for many people giving their children "stuff" is more important (in their minds) than giving them attention. Because of this many families have working mothers and fathers, who spend more time away from home working.

Parents need to make "Family" more valuable than "Objects" or this cycle is not going to end. Just because you give your child the best of everything, doesn't mean they are getting the best from you as a parent.


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