# How do I determine my shoulder width?



## lewi (Aug 12, 2008)

I'm having some trouble with finding the right shoulder width for my suit jackets. I have tried at several suits at my local menswearstore without much luck. The staff have given me everything from a size 36R to a 40S to tryout and of course always say that it fits like a glove.

Is there some easy way to determine what width the shoulders of a suit jacket should have based on the width of your shoulders. For a example my shoulder width point to point (as describe here https://www.tailorstore.com/media/gfx/meas2/mens_body_back2.jpg) is 18 in. Should the shoulders of the suit jacket be 18 in?


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

Don't go by the numbers. Go by the fit. If it doesn't feel right, it doesn't fit right, and doesn't look right. No matter what the sales associate says. He's trying to make a $. Forget the number size and try them on until you find what you like. The rest of it can be altered. Properly fit the shoulders first.


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

Different designer models have different shoulders. All the 36R or 40S would be is 36 chest with "regular" lenght of coat or a 40 chest with "short" length of coat. Some designers have models that have more shoulders than others so it may be 18" for BB and 17.34 for JPress.

Fit is what is important here. If it fits well, that's what you are looking for in that designer. Finding if you are R or S is pretty simple too - put your hands straight, and cup them. If the coat length is longer than you can cup, it's too long. I don't know how they can't get a R or S unless you are between the break points.


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## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

I lift weights and suit jackets never fit well no matter what they do. Even the custom suit did not really fit well.

I noticed Arnold Schwarzenegger the other day and commented that his suit fit amazingly well (I understand he used to lift weights too).

I Googled to see who his tailor is/was and came up with this: https://richardlimtailoring.com/index.php?p=about


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

Pretty ez to do with a mirror. Simply stand in front of the mirror and look at the extremes of the shoulder padding. It should be even with your arm muscles (is that the deltoid?). It should not extend out over your arm nor should it be narrower than your upper arm. Also in a 3 way mirror look at the back of the jacket. It should not be straining to reach across your back.

You might try a better shop than the one you are going to in order to get garments with less stiffness and shoulder padding so that you can better see what a good fit is. You will also find better sales help.

That gives you the basic suit size. The R or S comes from your body balance. Cupping the hand works for many people. I have a long torso so it doesn't for me as I need to have the coat reach farther down my hand to be an inch below my butt from the back.

Perry


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I'm with Francis the Part-Bull Part-Man Who Inhabits the Cretan Labyrinth on this one.

I have found that even garments marked as being the same size in the same range in the same store (in my case, Brooks Bros. "Madison" cut 1818 suitcoats and odd jackets) can exhibit unambiguously noticeable variations in fit. 

Recently, when I went in to one of my local BB stores to take advantage of a 2-for-1 deal on suits, I discovered that the Saxxon herringbone Madison 2btn suits were all too tight in the shoulders, upper sleeves, and upper back for me, and that while one of the solid-navy 2btn super 120s Madison suits on the rack fit OK in those critical areas, the other that was hanging right next to it (i.e., the exact same suit in the exact same size and style) plainly felt too tight.

Lest anyone jump to the conclusion that BB's quality control is unusually awful, I can say I've had the same experience with BBGF, Hickey-Freeman full-line, Coppley, Southwick, and Samuelsohn suits or sportcoats too.

The moral of the story is that trying stuff on (preferably while wearing the same sort of shirt and undershirt you'll be wearing with the suit or jacket) is the ONLY proof of the RTW pudding. Numbers by themselves mean very little, and you must never let an overeager salesperson use them to steer you into a garment that doesn't feel right.


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## From Vancouver (May 24, 2009)

Use the suit size (e.g. 38 R, 40 S) as a starting point. You have to try the coat on to get a good feel for the fit of the garment. As a guideline, the shoulder width is good if the outside of the sleeve is in slight contact with the outside of your upper arm. If your arm is protruding, then the suit is too narrow.

There are other things - not just shoulder width - to look for with regards to fit. Length was discussed, and you should work your way down the coat, from the neck area, down through the chest, waist and hips.

Maybe you should visit another menswear store, or deal with some other sales associate, as it does not seem like you are having much luck with the current setup. Try different brands, and different styles within each brand for something which fits, and if you do not, consider made-to-measure.


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

lewi,

Greetings from the US and from one who has visited Uppsala. Your city and country is a beautiful place in the summer. I had a great time there during my visit in the summer of 2006.

To get your proper chest dimension is the first order of business. The sales person or store tailor should measure you horizontally (cirmcuference) at the nipple line. They should then add two or so inches (5 cm min.) That should give you some breathing room.

Try on a jacket according to that measurement. The shoulders should not peak out too far over your own shoulder muscle. It shouldn't make a depression or a bulge in the face of the sleeve head. The height of the armhole will also affect the fit and comfort.

Here is an illustration from Flusser and Hickey Freeman regarding shoulder fit:










And another from Hickey Freeman

One can't really determine from the pic above if the jacket length is appropriate, as the model is slumping.

As to jacket length (short, regular, or long), it is often said that the back of the jacket should just cover the bottom crease of your buttocks. Stand in a three-way mirror and take a look. The cupping of your hands at the side of the jacket is not always the best indication. The length of the rear of the jacket in proportion to where your leg meets your buttock is a better test.

If you are less than 167.64 cm, you might be classified as needing a short model jacket.

Stay after it, and buy the best quality you can afford.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Packard said:


> I lift weights and suit jackets never fit well no matter what they do. Even the custom suit did not really fit well.
> 
> I noticed Arnold Schwarzenegger the other day and commented that his suit fit amazingly well (I understand he used to lift weights too).
> 
> I Googled to see who his tailor is/was and came up with this: https://richardlimtailoring.com/index.php?p=about


Though he's still a large-framed man, obviously, Arnold has suffered a good deal of aging, a cardiac surgery, and a serious leg injury (busted it badly while skiing) since his heavy weight-training days. I'm not sure he has quite the same fit issues he used to:


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## PCyclone (Jun 6, 2009)

Beau said:


> To get your proper chest dimension is the first order of business. The sales person or store tailor should measure you horizontally (cirmcuference) at the nipple line. They should then add two or so inches (5 cm min.) That should give you some breathing room.


I don't think this is right, particularly if you are after a relatively slim fit. In most brands, the "breathing room" is already built in to the sizing. For example, a size 38 jacket is typically about 41-42" around in the chest. If you are like me, that is already *plenty* of room, and you would not want to be even roomier. If your chest actually measures 38" around and you added 2 inches to get to a size 40 jacket, you would then have a jacket that measures about 43-44" around - far too big, in my opinion, but tastes differ. Again, though, some brands do it differently - a Ralph Lauren Black Label size 38, for example, really does measure right around 38". So you have to try it on and follow the guidelines other people here have offered in terms of the shoulder fit. The edge of the shoulder on the jacket should basically match up with your actual shoulder - not stick out farther, but not be so small that your arm bulges the sleeve out, either.


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## Beau (Oct 4, 2007)

Ok, I stand corrected. If you search the internet for suit measurement, several sites recommend taking the circumference of the widest portion of your chest and under your arms. That would be a good starting point. You can adjust up or down according to suit manufacture and how each feels.

Good luck out there.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Beau said:


> lewi,
> 
> Greetings from the US and from one who has visited Uppsala. Your city and country is a beautiful place in the summer. I had a great time there during my visit in the summer of 2006.
> 
> ...


The coat on the model looks too long to me.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

the minotaur is right try it on it should be comfortable but not to the point of being baggy. 
as to the shoulder width. with the jacket on, stand in front of a mirror. have someone stand behind you, and place flat hands against the sides of your biceps. now in your mind project a line up from that contact point thats your finished shoulder width. as long as the shoulder width, including the sleeves is not wider than those projected lines the shoulder is ok.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

the minotaur is right try it on it should be comfortable but not to the point of being baggy. 
as to the shoulder width. with the jacket on, stand in front of a mirror. have someone stand behind you, and place flat hands against the sides of your biceps. now in your mind project a line up from that contact point thats your finished shoulder width. as long as the shoulder width, including the sleeves is not wider than those projected lines the shoulder is ok.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

PJC in NoVa said:


> Though he's still a large-framed man, obviously, Arnold has suffered a good deal of aging, a cardiac surgery, and a serious leg injury (busted it badly while skiing) since his heavy weight-training days. I'm not sure he has quite the same fit issues he used to:


Funny, I saw those same pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger on bluray.com.


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## pkprd869 (Jul 7, 2009)

You'll just have to keep trying. I have sloped shoulders and built up deltoids, so I need around a half inch more from where the actual shoulder joint is. Hang in there and you'll find something.


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## damon54 (Dec 12, 2007)

Hope this stays on topic but my question is what causes a wrinkle on the back of a Suit jacket underneath the armpits?


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

a tailor said:


> the minotaur is right try it on it should be comfortable but not to the point of being baggy.
> as to the shoulder width. with the jacket on, stand in front of a mirror. have someone stand behind you, and place flat hands against the sides of your biceps. now in your mind project a line up from that contact point thats your finished shoulder width. as long as the shoulder width, including the sleeves is not wider than those projected lines the shoulder is ok.


Thanks for outlining this method Alex. I know that some suit models can have a more extended shoulder than others. For instance I have two Oxxfords, same size but different models with a difference of 1 1/2 inches accoss the back, shoulder seam to shoulder seam. I put this down to "Italian" styling in the one with the greater measurement. Both OTR suits.


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