# North Korea attacks South Korea



## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

> *SKorea: NKorea Bombarding Populated Island*
> 
> _Smoke Seen Rising From Island_
> KWANG-TAE KIM, Associated Press
> ...


My favorite quote from this article is, "Tensions between the two Koreas also remain tense..."

The article also goes on to say that the two countries have had three skirmishes with each other in recent years. I haven't been paying much attention so this is all news to me. I do know though about how NK has been acting up in recent times, with Kim Jong Il making threats and lots of posturing. So what do you think this is, is this going to be the fourth minor skirmish or is this the start of something bigger?


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

We tend to get more reports about Northern transgressions than Southern ones. The last incident, the torpedoing of a Southern Naval vessel, was in retaliation for a Southern attack on a Northern Naval vessel. Was this incident it unprovoked? Will we ever get the full picture?


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Obviously, the South needs to end it's aggressive, imperialist ways and re-unify with the North.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

North Korea is spoiling for a fight. They desperately want an excuse to play with the new toys in their War/Toy chest. These continuing mini-dramas distract their populace from the realities of their own misery!


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

That, or more money and concessions from the World Appeasment League.


----------



## Epaminondas (Oct 19, 2009)

Chouan said:


> We tend to get more reports about Northern transgressions than Southern ones. The last incident, the torpedoing of a Southern Naval vessel, was in retaliation for a Southern attack on a Northern Naval vessel. Was this incident it unprovoked? Will we ever get the full picture?


It's OK, no need to be defensive - we all remember the vicious attack by S. Korea against N. Korea in 1950........


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

No, this is just sabre rattling. You need to read what military and economic experts have being saying over the last few days. Basically that the NK armed forces, despite being the 4th largest in the world, are in a dreadful state & in no condition to attack SK, they can put up a good defence though. Secondly NK is extremely poor & is dependent on external funding, hence the sabre rattling so that they appear as a threat and even a nucear threat as a route to negotiations for economic support. Hence, other countries helping them financially, hence the sabre rattling to keep the appeasment money coming in hence continued sabre rattling.

This is my opinion now: 
What would be interesting would be to see what NK would do if suddenly all the external "appeasement" funding stopped & other countreis said no, we're not giving you any more money till you start the ND process. Call their bluff in other words.
Because the bottom line is this: NK knows that as long as they remain a threat to SK & environs they have negotiating power. But as soon as they launch an attack, even a conventional land based assault they know the game's up & they will be overrun by well equipped and well trained SK & US soldiers from the south in the first instance & Russian & Nato troops at a later stage. NK would go the way of Iraq, into the country with US, SK, UK, Russian & German etc. troops to remove the dictator and his WMD.............but .....................yes............wait.........someone else is watching.................the PDRC..........China!


----------



## nick.mccann (May 3, 2009)

From what I understand is NK has a ton of artillery aimed at Seoul, so in the first hours they could launch a copious amount of shells into the city. I have no doubt NK would lose, but after how many civilians are killed?
Also they've spent the last 50 years digging tunnels and preparing for an invasion.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Epaminondas said:


> It's OK, no need to be defensive - we all remember the vicious attack by S. Korea against N. Korea in 1950........


So, because N.Korea started a war in 1950, which was clearly unjustified (was it?), they are clearly automatically guilty of anything that ever happens in that area for evermore.
N.Korea has a history of personal dictatorship by a Communist dictator, which clearly makes them villains, whereas S.Korea must, obviously, have had a history of enlightened liberal democracy, with popularly elected liberal governments, such as that of Syngman Rhee, which mean that they obviously have white hats and horses. Good thing that there are no shades of grey there to confuse us.
We should be proud that we fought to uphold such a model of democracy and virtue against the Communist hordes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm not confused. 

Why are you??


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

nick.mccann said:


> but after how many civilians are killed?


That's what happens in war and especially in countries where life is considered as cheap.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Chouan said:


> So, because N.Korea started a war in 1950, which was clearly unjustified (was it?), they are clearly automatically guilty of anything that ever happens in that area for evermore.
> N.Korea has a history of personal dictatorship by a Communist dictator, which clearly makes them villains, whereas S.Korea must, obviously, have had a history of enlightened liberal democracy, with popularly elected liberal governments, such as that of Syngman Rhee, which mean that they obviously have white hats and horses. Good thing that there are no shades of grey there to confuse us.
> We should be proud that we fought to uphold such a model of democracy and virtue against the Communist hordes.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre


Well said, I'm also in the camp that thinks they're both as bad as each other & deliberately provoke each other. NK with the support of China and SK with the support of the US troops & vessels on station.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL...here we go again. I guess that explains why South Korea has shown such notable progress, economic, social, nay, on all fronts; while the North Koreans have remained very solidly entrenched in the dark ages, putting whatever money they do have in their nuclear military capabilities. :crazy:


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> LOL...here we go again. I guess that explains why South Korea has shown such notable progress, economic, social, nay, on all fronts; while the North Koreans have remained very solidly entrenched in the dark ages, putting whatever money they do have in their nuclear military capabilities. :crazy:


That's right, because both are equally beligerant, equally to blame and equally corrupt!!


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> That's right, because both are equally beligerant, equally to blame and equally corrupt!!


Exactly ,well said.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Chouan said:


> We tend to get more reports about Northern transgressions than Southern ones. The last incident, the torpedoing of a Southern Naval vessel, was in retaliation for a Southern attack on a Northern Naval vessel. Was this incident it unprovoked? Will we ever get the full picture?


I am thankful you dont have any meaningful influence in policy matters and I pity your students.


----------



## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> I am thankful you dont have any meaningful influence in policy matters and I pity your students.


 ....says Ronnie Reagan (from Texas no less). ic12337:

It would seem unreasonable that all blame would accrue to one side, would it not? Or do you believe it is simply a case of democracy good, authoritarianism bad, where the former would never belligerent?

Regardless, and more important to this forum, Kim Il-sung has some pretty darn well tailored military uniforms, mais oui?


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

blairrob said:


> ....says Ronnie Reagan (from Texas no less). ic12337:
> 
> It would seem unreasonable that all blame would accrue to one side, would it not? Or do you believe it is simply a case of democracy good, authoritarianism bad, where the former would never belligerent?
> 
> Regardless, and more important to this forum, Kim Il-sung has some pretty darn well tailored military uniforms, mais oui?


Funny that you hold Reagan and Texas is lower regard than the North Korean regime.

And odd that you seek to put North Korean state oppression in context while admiring their martial tailoring.

But were your comments beyond stupid? Absolument!


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Well said, I'm also in the camp that thinks they're both as bad as each other & deliberately provoke each other. NK with the support of China and SK with the support of the US troops & vessels on station.


I overlooked this bit of foolishness as well. One cant imagine a reasonable person thinks this way (that a Seoul-Washington cabal is provoking the North Korean regime) but give this poster's history we can can excuse reason and logic from the discussion.


----------



## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> I overlooked this bit of foolishness as well. One cant imagine a reasonable person thinks this way (that a Seoul-Washington cabal is provoking the North Korean regime) but give this poster's history we can can excuse reason and logic from the discussion.


Something tells me you wouldn't know logic or reason if they came up to you and ic12337:ed you.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

JJR512 said:


> Something tells me you wouldn't know logic or reason if they came up to you and ic12337:ed you.


Did you have help crafting that post or are you alone responsible for something so banal?


----------



## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> Did you have help crafting that post or are you alone responsible for something so banal?


I take full credit for that particular bit of insightful wisdom. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> Funny that you hold Reagan and Texas is lower regard than the North Korean regime.


It seems ironic that a fellow from Texas, a state where many of it's residents take pride in their bellicosity, would argue the peninsula's problem lays solely at the hands of the so-called aggressor. I hold Reagan and N. Korea in equal regard; clearly if they have not adopted the Gipper's trickle down economics the North Koreans have at least attained similar deficit results, albeit the 'Great Leader' has had many more years in power with which to do so.



Karl89 said:


> And odd that you seek to put North Korean state oppression in context while admiring their martial tailoring.
> But were your comments beyond stupid? Absolument!


On AAAC it seems rather silly to not be able to make such a comment, Monsieur! Are your comments myopic or poorly reasoned? I suspect there are varying opinions on that and I shall reserve mine for a more appropriate forum.

Now where's my six shooter, the neighbour's steers are mooin' again and I need to fix that problem for good.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> I overlooked this bit of foolishness as well. One cant imagine a reasonable person thinks this way (that a Seoul-Washington cabal is provoking the North Korean regime) but give this poster's history we can can excuse reason and logic from the discussion.


Thanks Jeb, now go back to your Fox News desk & read chapter 2 of the Republican Brain Washing Manual.

Jeez...you are unbelieveable!


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

JJR512 said:


> Something tells me you wouldn't know logic or reason if they came up to you and ic12337:ed you.


Seconded!


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> I am thankful you dont have any meaningful influence in policy matters and I pity your students.


And I'm thankful you don't! You should try turning off Fox News once in a while and reading some international newspapers, you see Texas Republican Weekly isn't giving you the insight and knowledge you so desperately lack.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

If ignorance is bliss the previous two posters must be very happy indeed. The shockingly ill informed views about Texas and North Korea astound me. And pray tell what exactly is Texas Republican Weekly?


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> The shockingly ill informed views about North Korea astound me.


hhmm..indeed.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Karl89 said:


> If ignorance is bliss the previous two posters must be very happy indeed. The shockingly ill informed views about Texas and North Korea astound me.


I feel dirty just impersonating them!!


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> And pray tell what exactly is Texas Republican Weekly?


Well, people using 19th century phrases like "pray tell" tells me all I need to know about them.......pretentious and out of date!


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

I was particularly taken by Sarah Palin's view of the crisis. A future US statesman.....


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

In the mad dash to the top of the stupidity pyramid, it's a very close race between North Korea and Cuba. Personally I'm hoping we invade and conquer Mexico. Great beachfront property.

From what I've read NK's shelling was a response to the joint US/South Korea "military exercises" that occurred recently. Anyway we'll be hearing more and more about it and Iran as long as this is on the table:

https://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10152

It's the part of the movie where true conservatives are separated from fake conservatives.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Chouan said:


> I was particularly taken by Sarah Palin's view of the crisis. A future US statesman.....


Heard it on the news at 1pm, I nearly choked on my cheeseburger. Now that is what I call a political blooper "Our North Korean allies"...LOL!


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

FrankDC said:


> In the mad dash to the top of the stupidity pyramid, it's a very close race between North Korea and Cuba. Personally I'm hoping we invade and conquer Mexico. Great beachfront property.
> 
> From what I've read NK's shelling was a response to the joint US/South Korea "military exercises" that occurred recently. Anyway we'll be hearing more and more about it and Iran as long as this is on the table:
> 
> ...


A high up Swedish military commander in SK on Swedish radio today said another joint naval exercise is due to start on Sunday between SK troops and fleet and US in sk troops and fleet, which is the reason given for SK moving its fleet inshore & for the US carrier George Washington being in the roads. The Swedish "military observer" claims that this is an annual exercise and was planned long ago.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Heard it on the news at 1pm, I nearly choked on my cheeseburger. Now that is what I call a political blooper "Our North Korean allies"...LOL!


I find it astounding that such ignorance of the world is somehow seen as laudable by so many Americans. Surely our American members beleive that such profound, willfull, ignorance of the rest of the world must disqualify her for high office?


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Karl89 said:


> The shockingly ill informed views about ...... North Korea astound me.


What shockingly ill informed views are these? Or is it the view that S.Korea isn't quite the liberal democratic paradise that it is assumed to be?


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Chouan said:


> I find it astounding that such ignorance of the world is somehow seen as laudable by so many Americans. Surely our American members beleive that such profound, willfull, ignorance of the rest of the world must disqualify her for high office?


Your link~While the statement appears to have been a slip of the tongue...

Why have you deliberately obfuscated the veracity of your own sources??


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
LOL. Well now wait just a minute. Let us properly consider our response...Ok, that's sufficient consideration. How can you cast such aspersions on our ally, South Korea. After all, they are the ones who gave us the KIA and all those cut rate, one minute custom suit creations that we speak so fondly of in several of the AAAC sub-fora! 

On a more serious note, if there is an ROK Marine in a fight, in which we might find ourselves involved, I want him on my side. Those boys are hardcore, to the core!


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

FrankDC said:


> In the mad dash to the top of the stupidity pyramid, it's a very close race between North Korea and Cuba. Personally I'm hoping we invade and conquer Mexico. Great beachfront property.
> 
> From what I've read NK's shelling was a response to the joint US/South Korea "military exercises" that occurred recently. Anyway we'll be hearing more and more about it and Iran as long as this is on the table:
> 
> ...


While I agree that there are weapons systems worthy of cancellation, statements such as "To really keep us safe, we should slash defense spending" or to suggest that the world would be a better more stable place without the West's influence is goofy!!


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

WouldaShoulda said:


> While I agree that there are weapons systems worthy of cancellation, statements such as "To really keep us safe, we should slash defense spending" or to suggest that the world would be a better more stable place without the West's influence is goofy!!


 Score +1 for fake conservatives.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

FrankDC said:


> Score +1 for fake conservatives.


I'm happy to disagree with George Will or Pat Buchanan on US foriegn policy.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I have to admit this is my first time hearing about "Our North Korean Allies"...holy cow...



Chouan said:


> I find it astounding that such ignorance of the world is somehow seen as laudable by so many Americans. Surely our American members beleive that such profound, willfull, ignorance of the rest of the world must disqualify her for high office?


They all fell for "Hope and Change" didnt they??? (the sad part is that I'll probably be forced to vote for that guy again if she gets the nod in 2012) There's no doubt in my mind that imbecile will be our next president...people seemed to have stopped thinking recently and will fall for whatever garbage is spoonfed to them with a catchy tagline or a pretty (and I use that word VERY loosely) face...I mean, this is the woman who could see Russia from her house and thought Africa was a country...she should be dancing in a cage somewhere on a tuesday night for crumpled dollar bills stained with buffalo sauce from a cretin with a bad combover wearing way too much cheap cologne, instead, she could become the leader of the free world...that prospect scares me only slightly less than N Korea posessing nukes...

It makes me ashamed to be a Republican sometimes...can't we just disown the teabaggers for the sake of the greater good???


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

The Gabba Goul said:


> ...people seemed to have stopped thinking recently and will fall for whatever garbage is spoonfed to them with a catchy tagline or a pretty (and I use that word VERY loosely) face...I mean, this is the woman who could see Russia from her house


I hope you realize what you just did here...


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I hope you realize what you just did here...


not quite sure...I'm guessing it has something to do with me buying into the hype??? did she or did she not say that??? and even if you throw that one out, her soundbyte librairy is full of gems that are equally as discouraging when you consider the fact that there are people who think that she's fit to lead this nation...


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

If Palin becomes the mouthpiece for what's left of the radical right, fake moralists and globalist traitors then I hope she gets nominated. Her negatives are 3x her positives among independents and the more she opens her mouth the wider that gap gets.

Incredible how a few of us actually believe resigning as an elected governor of a state with less than 700,000 people qualifies one to lead a country of 350,000,000. What happens when she tires of that job?


----------



## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> LOL. Well now wait just a minute. Let us properly consider our response...Ok, that's sufficient consideration. How can you cast such aspersions on our ally, South Korea. After all, they are the ones who gave us the KIA and all those cut rate, one minute custom suit creations that we speak so fondly of in several of the AAAC sub-fora!
> 
> On a more serious note, if there is an ROK Marine in a fight, in which we might find ourselves involved, I want him on my side. Those boys are hardcore, to the core!


It's my understanding that NK's army and their families (aside from the country's leadership) are the few folks that don't exist on subsistence or lower level food rations, so coupling that with a little indoctrination (Fox North Korea?) might make them a tough opponent. Lets hope it doesn't get that far again....

And eagle, I appreciate your efforts at keeping this thread topical yet lighthearted. We are not the UN Security Council and some here can be a little _too_ serious and disingenuous. _For Gawd's sake it's a clothing forum!!!!!_

Texas Republican Weekly! That's funny. I'm quite certain it's a _daily_.

Blair


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

blairrob said:


> Texas Republican Weekly! That's funny. I'm quite certain it's a _daily_.
> 
> Blair


You're right. I don't know what got into me calling it a weekly!


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> You're right. I don't know what got into me calling it a weekly!


I find it amusing and disturbing how self congratulatory the ignorant are.


----------



## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> I find it amusing and disturbing how self congratulatory the ignorant are.


What is truly disturbing and dangerously arrogant (or just frighteningly stupid) is that it is this precise attitude that you are portraying in this thread that leads to so many in the world hating the United States, fostering the anger that led to the death of so many people on 9/11 and on so many other occasions, and will no doubt continue to do so in the future. _*Don't you understand that?*_ Your improvidence is so unbelievable I can't imagine you actually travel abroad. That is stupefying in itself (unless you do so basking in the hegemony of the _superior_ American overseas).
You do make the reason obvious that many American travelers feel it necessary to sew a Canadian flag on their jacket or backpack; it's to avoid any association with your ilk _(thankfully a small [albeit loud] piece of the traveling public)_.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

blairrob said:


> What is truly disturbing and dangerously arrogant (or just frighteningly stupid) is that it is this precise attitude that you are portraying in this thread that leads to so many in the world hating the United States, fostering the anger that led to the death of so many people on 9/11 and on so many other occasions, and will no doubt continue to do so in the future. _*Don't you understand that?*_ Your improvidence is so unbelievable I can't imagine you actually travel abroad. That is stupefying in itself (unless you do so basking in the hegemony of the _superior_ American overseas).
> You do make the reason obvious that many American travelers feel it necessary to sew a Canadian flag on their jacket or backpack; it's to avoid any association with your ilk _(thankfully a small [albeit loud] piece of the traveling public)_.


 Spot on mate, spot on! Well said. "There are none so blind as though who will not see" would seem to be the perfect biblical adage for Karl.


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

It's a 60+ year-old civil war that has never been allowed to resolve itself. Imagine if another country had invaded ours during our own Civil War and drew an arbitrary border directly through the middle of our country. That's the situation in Korea, there never was and never will be any reason to believe it's a workable solution.

IMO we must stop trying to protect other countries from themselves and start fixing our own problems. We gave the lives of 58,000 of our kids trying to keep the Vietnamese from the government they wanted all along, and what do you know, now our government is in debt to Communist China to the tune of trillions of dollars and Vietnam has become the world's second fastest growing economy.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

FrankDC said:


> IMO we must stop trying to protect other countries from themselves and start fixing our own problems.


Never a truer word spoken. And the same should apply to the UK, France, Netherlands, Germany, Italy, Russia and China and so on.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

FrankDC said:


> It's a 60+ year-old civil war that has never been allowed to resolve itself. Imagine if another country had invaded ours during our own Civil War and drew an arbitrary border directly through the middle of our country. That's the situation in Korea, there never was and never will be any reason to believe it's a workable solution.
> 
> IMO we must stop trying to protect other countries from themselves and start fixing our own problems. We gave the lives of 58,000 of our kids trying to keep the Vietnamese from the government they wanted all along, and what do you know, now our government is in debt to Communist China to the tune of trillions of dollars and Vietnam has become the world's second fastest growing economy.


What nonsense is this? I would expect the usual anti-American nonsense from the Earl (a class obsessed twit with rather pedestrian tastes) and our Canadian loon (a rather smug fellow who positively drips with anti-American venow) but excusing the North Koreans and saying that we must not interefere in this civil war? Moral equivalence is intellectually lazy at best and evil at worst. Very simply South Korea is not perfect (only lefty Canadians and arrogant self proclaimed aristocracy are perfect) but it is a liberal democracy that is one of the richest and most advanced countries in the world. North Korea is perhaps the worst place on earth and to say that we shouldn't take sides in a conflict that is literally Good vs. Evil is immoral.


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

Sorry to break the news to you Karl: you can't fix stupid.


----------



## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> our Canadian loon (a rather smug fellow who positively drips with anti-American venow)


 ....damned cloaking device must be on the fritz again, and with Klingon techies off this weekend for the holiday festivities! Drat! Unmasked again!

_(and by a turkey at thanksgiving no less)_


----------



## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm a bit confused here: are some of the posters actual fans of the North Korean gov't? I understand the technique of "if you're wrong about one thing you're wrong about everything, therefore I must be totally right", heard it enough dealing with "the public", but still...someone defending _North Korea?_


----------



## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

phyrpowr said:


> I'm a bit confused here: are some of the posters actual fans of the North Korean gov't? I understand the technique of "if you're wrong about one thing you're wrong about everything, therefore I must be totally right", heard it enough dealing with "the public", but still...someone defending _North Korea?_


No no. The argument essentially stems from a "it's all North Korea's fault" post to a "it's not _entirely_ North Korea's fault" retort (the two to tango thing). While the main press in NK is completely gov't dominated, a free press such as we have also tends to often over report or under report what is happening anywhere in the press's time-honoured self serving manner. That's all. We often get over exaggerated and/or under stated press facts from Iraq and Afghanistan (or Hollywood or Wall Street, etc.,) but we're certainly not supporting the Taliban, Al Quaeda, or Martha Stewart and Charlie Sheen.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> What nonsense is this? I would expect the usual anti-American nonsense from the Earl (a class obsessed twit with rather pedestrian tastes)


LOL!!! Thanks for that good laugh. Now here are three words you didn't learn at school you twit, and which you still aren't aware of: 1 irony; 2 satire; 3 sarcasm. 
Now, bearing those 3 words in mind and the fact that you anything about me, you won't have realised what a complete & utter twat-arse you sound like when you write, "class obsessed twit"! Again, thanks for the laugh...hurry along now as I believe you're wanted on the set of Deliverance 2, your banjo has just been tuned!


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

phyrpowr said:


> I'm a bit confused here: are some of the posters actual fans of the North Korean gov't?


No, not at all. What some of us are saying is that it takes two to tango, no smoke without fire, basically that they're as bad as each other.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> No, not at all. What some of us are saying is that it takes two to tango, no smoke without fire, basically that they're as bad as each other.


North Korea is as bad as South Korea????? Do you live in group home? Do they know you have been using the internet again without supervision?

And do you really think Dallas and Texas resemble Deliverance? I was shocked that the female immigration officers at Heathrow wore something akin to a burqa when I was there last month if you really wish to discuss the primitive.


----------



## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> What nonsense is this? I would expect the usual anti-American nonsense from the Earl (a class obsessed twit with rather pedestrian tastes) and our Canadian loon (a rather smug fellow who positively drips with anti-American *venow*) but excusing the North Koreans and saying that we must not interefere in this civil war? Moral *equivalence* is intellectually lazy at best and evil at worst. Very simply South Korea is not perfect (only lefty Canadians and arrogant self proclaimed aristocracy are perfect) but it is a liberal democracy that is one of the richest and most advanced countries in the world. North Korea is perhaps the worst place on earth and to say that we shouldn't take sides in a conflict that is literally Good vs. Evil is immoral.





Earl of Ormonde said:


> LOL!!! Thanks for that good laugh. Now here are three words you didn't learn at school you twit, and which you still aren't aware of: 1 irony; 2 satire; 3 sarcasm.


To EoO's list, I'd like to add two more words. The first is a word that apparently _I_ never learned in school, and that is "venow". It's not in my dictionary. (My dictionary is the Oxford English Dictionary. Maybe I need one that's more modern...) The second word to add to the list is "equivalence". Just based on context, I'm guessing the word that was _meant_ to go there was "equivocacy"; i.e., "Moral uncertainty or questionableness is...etc."



JJR512 said:


> Something tells me you wouldn't know logic or reason if they came up to you and ic12337:ed you.


I would really appreciate it if someone could nominate me for The Most Original or Unique Use of a Smiley while Making a Point award. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> Do you live in group home? Do they know you have been using the internet again without supervision?


Yes I did, but I just escaped from it. It's a top security prison in the English countryside for psychotic killers. I usually kill Americans. Funny you should mention Heathrow though, I'm there now about to board a plane for Texas! I'll count to 7 million, you run & hide!


----------



## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

JJR512 said:


> "
> 
> I would really appreciate it if someone could nominate me for The Most Original or Unique Use of a Smiley while Making a Point award. :icon_smile_big:


So nominated. Best sig nomination as well.



Earl of Ormonde said:


> I just escaped from .... a top security prison in the English countryside for psychotic killers. I usually kill Americans. Funny you should mention Heathrow though, I'm there now about to board a plane for Texas! I'll count to 7 million, you run & hide!​


 Earl, I had just placed you on my Christmas card list. I may have to reconsider that addition following your most recent post.

Anyone who chooses Heathrow over Gatwick _is_ loony.

Blair


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

blairrob said:


> Anyone who chooses Heathrow over Gatwick _is_ loony.


Well exactly!!!! I wasn't locked up for nothing!


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Blair - arguing over typos? Is that bc you don't have a credible argument? And no, I meant moral equivalence, do you know what it means? And finally any savvy traveler would know that Gatwick is now almost useless for flights to the States given the recent changes in the US-UK bilateral aviation agreement (I think US Airways still flies there from Philadelphia and Delta from Atlanta.)

Earl -it might do you some good to venture out into the world and puncture the myths you have created. Texans welcome everyone (and I am not a native Texan) though you might try their patience.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> Earl -it might do you some good to venture out into the world and puncture the myths you have created. Texans welcome everyone (and I am not a native Texan) though you might try their patience.


Are you so short on original thoughts that you have to recycle mine from earlier on? Dear oh dear oh dear!


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Are you so short on original thoughts that you have to recycle mine from earlier on? Dear oh dear oh dear!


Earl - shall we compare travels and experience abroad? I would especially be interested in comparing the time I have spent in the UK with the time you have spent in Texas.


----------



## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> No, not at all. What some of us are saying is that it takes two to tango, no smoke without fire, basically that they're as bad as each other.


So you'd cheerfully live in either, if you had to pick one?


----------



## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> Blair - arguing over typos? Is that bc you don't have a credible argument? And no, I meant moral equivalence, do you know what it means?


That post was actually the fine young man from Maryland, though I understand your confusion given your inability to understand irony, sarcasm, and worse, the benefit of dispassionate, undogmatical intellectual thought.



Karl89 said:


> And finally any savvy traveler would know that Gatwick is now almost useless for flights to the States given the recent changes in the US-UK bilateral aviation agreement (I think US Airways still flies there from Philadelphia and Delta from Atlanta.)


Since the Earl and I are not from the US your savvy point is irrelevant though I appreciate your effort to join in on our sidebar nonetheless. Canada having our own airports these days I can now fly to Europe directly from my here but will keep your advice on file.

US Airways must enjoy smaller airports as they are the only major US carrier flying to Halifax.

Karl, you must be quite the bundle of laughs at the dinner table. Your boxer briefs must be so tight your monogrammed initials leave an imprint on your left nut.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> Earl - shall we compare travels and experience abroad? I would especially be interested in comparing the time I have spent in the UK with the time you have spent in Texas.


No Walter Mitty lets not, you'd only embarrass yourself further, if that is even possible after your showing here; you see (well, you clearly don't, but anyway) I live by the adage "never mock or take advantage of the afflicted"


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

blairrob said:


> Your boxer briefs must be so tight your monogrammed initials leave an imprint on your left nut.


I heard he was a member of the ONC (one nut club) along with Hitler.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

phyrpowr said:


> So you'd cheerfully live in either, if you had to pick one?


Good God no, why on earth would I want to leave my villa in Sweden to go and live in Korea.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Earl - I would be eager to hear about your time in Texas. Normally you seem more than happy to write about yourself and your pedestrian tastes, why the reluctance now? Is it because you have never been here and like most ignorant people have opinions on things you know nothing about? Or perhaps you are boycotting Texas like you do Israel? Funny how you label Israel a criminal state but have no harsh words for North Korea.

Blair - my apologies, it is apparently the fellow from MD who doesnt understand simple concepts. As to US carrier service to Halifax, you are mistaken (par for the course it seems) as in addition to US Airways American, Continental, Delta and United all serve the airport. Though I would imagine the service is with regional jets and not mainline.

And since both you gentlemen share a common interest in other men's boxer shorts and testicles perhaps you should meet each other. As a staunch supporter of civil unions for homosexuals I would be pleased if my objections to your defense of North Korea brought you two together.


----------



## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

NK and SK started a reunification plan 10 years ago. The thugs who call themselves NK's government know better than anyone what the end result of this process is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_15th_North-South_Joint_Declaration


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

FrankDC said:


> NK and SK started a reunification plan 10 years ago. The thugs who call themselves NK's government know better than anyone what the end result of this process is.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_15th_North-South_Joint_Declaration


Frank - the Sunshine Policy is now discredited and regarded as a failure. And China (who could really chose to be constructive if they wanted to be) is unlikely to welcome a united Korean democracy on its border. The Soviet Union was not in much of a position to resist German reunification in 1990 (not even Thatcher and Mitterand were and GHWB should be the patron saint of the reunified Germany) but China can and will resist Korean reunfication because China rarely does the right thing.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> Earl - I would be eager to hear about your time in Texas.


Oh you're a gem. My sides are splitting. Your naivety knows no bounds. Please tell me you didn't just use the "you haven't been to Texas, so you know nothing about Texas" defence......how old are you? 12? Hilarious.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

The Gabba Goul said:


> not quite sure...I'm guessing it has something to do with me buying into the hype??? did she or did she not say that???


You were spoonfed hype and regurgitated it for everyone to see.

Tina Fey said it.

Now don't you feel foolish??

Palin does have high negetives. It isn't necessary to make **** up.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Karl89 said:


> Moral equivalence is intellectually lazy at best and evil at worst. Very simply South Korea is not perfect but it is a liberal democracy that is one of the richest and most advanced countries in the world. North Korea is perhaps the worst place on earth and to say that we shouldn't take sides in a conflict that is literally Good vs. Evil is immoral.


Thanks for pointing that out...


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> North Korea is perhaps the worst place on earth and to say that we shouldn't take sides in a conflict that is literally Good vs. Evil is immoral.


Good v Evil??? I must ask, do you actually believe this Bible bashing, right wing, brain washed rubbish that you write? 
So when were you in North Korea then to gain that knowledge?


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

One doesn't have to live in NK to know it is among the worst places on Earth. 

However, I lived in Dallas TX for two years and can say it is a close second!!


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Good v Evil??? I must ask, do you actually believe this Bible bashing, right wing, brain washed rubbish that you write?
> So when were you in North Korea then to gain that knowledge?


At this point in my life, I'm not sure I am able to get my arms around the "good vs evil" thing. Although, in my early 20's I could easily have done so. But, as the years passed, everything seems to have become a bit more grey and less clear cut. I will tell you, however, that I have stood on the southern side of that proverbial line in the soil of the Korean peninsula and would have given my last breath to destroying any marauding hoards of heathens from the North, that dared to cross that line, and would do so to this day. I was just as clear in my resolve to carry out my orders, as I waited in a sub-terranian control center during seeming endless alert tours, for the authorization and orders to unleash those unholy nuclear dogs of war against our enemies. South Korea is our Ally and we will stand behind our allies. It would be a mistake for North Korea or any other Geopolitical entity to underestimate the resolve of the US or of her soldiers, sailors, marines or airmen! We should all be praying that it does not come to that!


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

The point is that it isn't good versus evil, or black versus white. Those who think it is either lack maturity, as you did, and I did, or lack intelligence. 
When one is 17, or 20, one beleives in simple solutions to complex problems. That one's own side is good, and that the other side must, therefore, be bad. With maturity we begin to see that our own side can sometimes be bad, and that the other side are not necessarily all bad. Some never gain the maturity, or the understanding, or ever have the intelligence to understand that.
Liberal Western Democracies, for example should never commit torture, or allow or tacitly condone its use, however it is dressed up. That is completely against the very principle of human rights and the Rule of Law. Yet two of the leading western liberal democracies have been shown to have done this. An ex-ruler of one of those countries even spoke in justification of it. The other country allowed it to happen, knowing that it was indeed happening. How can countries be, so absolutely, the force of "right" or "good" when the same countries do evil? By doing bad things, we are being as bad, in principle, as our enemies. The rest is just a question of scale.
N.Korea has an odious government. S.Korea has an oppressive authoritarian one. Does this make N.Koreans bad and S.Koreans good? Or is it the fact that the US created S.Korea, and uses S.Korea as a base in that area that makes S.Korea good? S.Vietnam was ruled by a repressive, corrupt and venal military dictatorship. Yet S.Vietnam was supported by the US, which made S.Vietnam good, and which somehow meant that N.Vietnam's equally repressive government was bad. 
Poland's government in the 1930's was a right wing, fascistic, anti-semitic dictatorship. So was Nazi Germany's. Did that make Poland's regime good?


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> South Korea is our Ally and we will stand behind our allies. It would be a mistake for North Korea or any other Geopolitical entity to underestimate the resolve of the US or of her soldiers, sailors, marines or airmen! We should all be praying that it does not come to that!


In my opinion, it's never going to happen because like I said earlier, and as many Swedish, UK, US and other western experts have been saying over the last week, NK knows that the minute it launches an attack it has lost everything, the battle, the war, foreign aid and the negotiating power its nuclear threat gave it. NK is happy to keep pushing its sabre rattling to new limits every year to keep the international community on its toes. My belief though is that if NK did launch an all out attack China would soon distance herself from them. China is happy to support anti-imperialist sabre rattling in a sort of last days of communism supporting Red comrades kind of way. But ultimately they are more concerned about their position at the top of the world's economic powers food chain. They aren't going to jeopardize that.


----------



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> You were spoonfed hype and regurgitated it for everyone to see.
> 
> Tina Fey said it.


My bad...






Not quite from her house, but the woman is still an idiot. Listening to her talk reminds me of some of the well thought and insightful interviews that JaMarcus Russel used to deliver to the local media out this way back when he was still working out in the east bay...



> Now don't you feel foolish??


Not really...Like I said before, you can throw that whole Alaska/Russia gem out entirely and the amount of retarded crap that comes out of that womans mouth is still staggering, if she werent the darling of the Limbaugh/Beck fearmongers (not real Republicans as far as I'm concerned) , I dont think she'd be getting nominations for dogcatcher let alone POTUS...I'd vote for Basil Marceaux before I voted for palin...



> Palin does have high negetives. It isn't necessary to make **** up.


I do agree with no need to make up negatives about palin...That's what I never understood about all these socialist/communist accusations from the teabaggers about Pres. Obama...I mean, the guy is not a very good POTUS...but he's no communist either...same goes for the birthers and their nonsense...There's plenty of real negatives, no need to make stuff up...but either way, I still dont understand why people who are otherwise reasonable and thinking people would feel that a woman who couldnt handle the pressure of being the governor of Alaska would be fit to lead this country.


----------



## Merganser (Mar 17, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> Frank - the Sunshine Policy is now discredited and regarded as a failure. And China (who could really chose to be constructive if they wanted to be) is unlikely to welcome a united Korean democracy on its border. The Soviet Union was not in much of a position to resist German reunification in 1990 (not even Thatcher and Mitterand were and GHWB should be the patron saint of the reunified Germany) but China can and will resist Korean reunfication because China rarely does the right thing.


Well, if the leaked U.S. diplomatic cables from WikiLeaks are to be believed, China's starting to get a bit sick of North Korea:



Grauniad said:


> *Wikileaks cables reveal China 'ready to abandon North Korea'*
> 
> Leaked dispatches show Beijing is frustrated with military actions of 'spoiled child' and increasingly favours reunified Korea
> 
> ...


https://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/29/wikileaks-cables-china-reunified-korea


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

WouldaShoulda said:


> One doesn't have to live in NK to know it is among the worst places on Earth.


Yea, I know, but I think you realise I was just responding to his odd belief that you have to have
lived somewhere to know about it. So I was just responding to his query of me about my time in Texas.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

The latest I heard last night on the BBC was that China "sounds" like it will be prepared to move towards a reunification of the 2 Koreas when the current NK dictator dies for the simple reason that it no longer has a need to have a buffer between itself and the western world (i.e. SK). https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11871641


----------



## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> The latest I heard last night on the BBC was that China "sounds" like it will be prepared to move towards a reunification of the 2 Koreas when the current NK dictator dies for the simple reason that it no longer has a need to have a buffer between itself and the western world (i.e. SK).


This makes it seem that China is fine with, and expects, the reunified Korea to be a "western"-type country. Interesting.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

JJR512 said:


> This makes it seem that China is fine with, and expects, the reunified Korea to be a "western"-type country. Interesting.


As I said before with their economy doing so well & their human rights doing so poorly they're on a par with many western capitalist countries already.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> As I said before with their economy doing so well & their human rights doing so poorly they're on a par with many western capitalist countries already.


You really can't be as stupid as your comments make you seem. Perhaps its best to stick yo boring us with posts about your pedestrian tastes or posting pictures of yourself that no one is clamoring to see. But what should I expect from a man who labels Israel a criminal state and says North Korea is no worse than South Korea. I won't even mention his cartoonish understanding of the Unied States, particularly Texas.


----------



## tlawson2 (Jun 9, 2010)

Of all the close calls this has got to be the biggest one. If nothing is done about it, Kim Jong Il will definitely strike again creating a mess in that part of the world. I mean the man really has nothing to lose.


----------



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Karl89 said:


> You really can't be as stupid as your comments make you seem. Perhaps its best to stick yo boring us with posts about your pedestrian tastes or posting pictures of yourself that no one is clamoring to see. But what should I expect from a man who labels Israel a criminal state and says North Korea is no worse than South Korea. I won't even mention his cartoonish understanding of the Unied States, particularly Texas.


LOL!!! Hit a nerve did I? You're like an 8 year old child who keeps using the same words and repeating the same phrases till the parent responds in exactly the way the chld wants. You're entertaining though I'll give you that, but then the court (read forum) jester always is a good laugh.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> LOL!!! Hit a nerve did I? You're like an 8 year old child who keeps using the same words and repeating the same phrases till the parent responds in exactly the way the chld wants. You're entertaining though I'll give you that, but then the court (read forum) jester always is a good laugh.


I notice you dont refute anything I say. I am glad you find me entertaining as I find your political analysis nonsensical and the rest of what you write pure foolishness. You inhabit myths that are self created.The only saving is grace is that it is doubtful you exert any influence on anything.


----------



## Chouan (Nov 11, 2009)

Karl89 said:


> I notice you dont refute anything I say. I am glad you find me entertaining as I find your political analysis nonsensical and the rest of what you write pure foolishness. You inhabit myths that are self created.The only saving is grace is that it is doubtful you exert any influence on anything.


I rather thought that *I* did. Perhaps you didn't realise.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Chouan said:


> I rather thought that *I* did. Perhaps you didn't realise.


Hardly. Perhaps its better you stop thinking so highly of yourself.


----------



## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> Hardly. Perhaps its better you stop thinking so highly of yourself.


Your posts are so stupid they don't need to be refuted. If Ronald Reagan was here today he'd tell you straight-up you're some kind of moron.


----------



## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

JJR512 said:


> Your posts are so stupid they don't need to be refuted. If Ronald Reagan was here today he'd tell you straight-up you're some kind of moron.


You certainly live up to the second part of your state's motto - look it up as I doubt you know it. And if he were alive, a 99 year old Ronald Reagan would tell me I was "some kind of moron" (boy can you turn a phrase!)? Really? Try a bit harder next time if you want to insult me.


----------



## JJR512 (May 18, 2010)

Karl89 said:


> You certainly live up to the second part of your state's motto - look it up as I doubt you know it. And if he were alive, a 99 year old Ronald Reagan would tell me I was "some kind of moron" (boy can you turn a phrase!)? Really? Try a bit harder next time if you want to insult me.


I don't think you even know what "my" state is. The motto of my state is, "Ditat Deus," which means, "God Enriches."

If you referring to the state where I'm currently located, however, your attempt to insult me was even more so. The best you can do is whine about perceived insults while being insulting yourself, while completely failing to contribute a single intelligent, rational thought to this conversation.


----------



## reddy (Dec 1, 2010)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> LOL...here we go again. I guess that explains why South Korea has shown such notable progress, economic, social, nay, on all fronts; while the North Koreans have remained very solidly entrenched in the dark ages, putting whatever money they do have in their nuclear military capabilities. :crazy:


yep,we all know that,looool


----------

