# Black tie with charcoal or navy suit



## smthorpe (Jan 11, 2011)

I see the "rich and famous" pulling off wearing a dark tie (even black) with charcoal or navy suits. I must wear a suit to work every day, and I think I could pull this off. What are your opinions?

Please see examples below -


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Beyond dreadful. A black necktie is appropriate only for a funeral.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

It's a very stark and austere look. It works reasonably well in a setting where there is a lone performer on a stage, but it's too high-contrast to look natural on most men in the daytime. At least that is my opinion. There are some here who like it.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm somewhere between Cuff and Balfour. I would add that the satorial habits of today's "rich and famous" are generally guideposts only in the negative sense.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Some think it works very well, if the tie's a grenadine:

https://putthison.com/post/3144782372/thisfits-for-dieworkwear-perhaps-ironic-in


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> Some think it works very well, if the tie's a grenadine:
> 
> https://putthison.com/post/3144782372/thisfits-for-dieworkwear-perhaps-ironic-in


Yes, but in navy not black.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Balfour said:


> Beyond dreadful. A black necktie is appropriate only for a funeral.


and sometimes not even then.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

Can you pull one off? Of course. Is a solid black necktie a good thing to own? Certainly. The thing is, life is too short to do it often. I had to include a black satin four-in-hand as part of a uniform for an academic event, and I wore it off and on outside of the event. I forgot to unpack it from my suitcase after the last trip I needed it on, and I've missed it exactly once in the year since then: I had a funeral to attend.

So, in my opinion, you could go for it, and it would work, but I think there are more stylish choices to be made.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Balfour said:


> Yes, but in navy not black.


No, that's a black grenadine tie.

I think the grenadine's a bit more useful than a satin, as it works well with things like red gingham and some specific combinations. Given my limited resources, I'd rather invest in, say, solid navy ties, which are clearly more versatile.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> No, that's a black grenadine tie.
> 
> I think the grenadine's a bit more useful than a satin, as it works well with things like red gingham and some specific combinations. Given my limited resources, I'd rather invest in, say, solid navy ties, which are clearly more versatile.


Sorry if I was unclear: I meant that I like the look with a navy grenadine (coupled with say a mid-grey flannel suit and a pale blue shirt). I don't like the look with a black tie, grenadine or otherwise. That is a very 'acquired' taste (en passant - I would echo Mike's comments about the tastes of the 'rich and famous').


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## jbrickma (Oct 16, 2007)

Surely, with a boldly striped shirt, perhaps multicolored, it's appropriate for daily wear.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

tocqueville said:


> Some think it works very well, if the tie's a grenadine:
> 
> https://putthison.com/post/3144782372/thisfits-for-dieworkwear-perhaps-ironic-in


Agreed. Midnight blue, navy and black ties are an Italian staple. Especially in grenadine


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Bjorn said:


> Agreed. Midnight blue, navy and black ties are an Italian staple. Especially in grenadine


Agreed to what I initially thought you meant


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

Clooney routinely wears a black grenadine tie with a navy suit. Indeed, before even opening the thread, he is who I thought of.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

Tilton said:


> Clooney routinely wears a black grenadine tie with a navy suit. Indeed, before even opening the thread, he is who I thought of.


So what?


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Balfour said:


> So what?


Clooney is what passes these days for a style icon. By today's Hollywood standards, he generally deserves that status.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> Clooney is what passes these days for a style icon. By today's Hollywood standards, he generally deserves that status.


Speaking for myself, I wouldn't regard him as an arbiter of taste. I'm firmly with Mike on how far one should be guided by the tastes of the 'rich and famous'. But I appreciate you may have been speaking somewhat ironically with your nod to 'today's standards' (or lack of them) ...


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Balfour said:


> Speaking for myself, I wouldn't regard him as an arbiter of taste. I'm firmly with Mike on how far one should be guided by the tastes of the 'rich and famous'. But I appreciate you may have been speaking somewhat ironically with your nod to 'today's standards' (or lack of them) ...


Clooney at least seems to have some taste.

As for Clooney and his black grenadine/navy suit ensemble, a reasonable person might think that if Clooney wears it and Jesse Thorne praises it, perhaps there's something to it? It certainly isn't an obvious choice.


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

We do 14 colors in grenadine ties. Black ranks #14 in quantity sold. 
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com
www.grenadineties.com


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## statboy (Sep 1, 2010)

Black grenadine and black knit can be worked in pretty easy. Straight black, never. I would never wear that, not even to a funeral. Looks like something prom kids wear with their black "dress shirts".


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I think a black necktie, particularly a black satin one is classic and valuable. However, rather than attempting to work a Darth Vader vibe, it best serves as a counterpoint to color and pattern. A colorful example would be this ensemble -









A more sedate version might feature an end-on-end blue shirt with white collar worn with charcoal suit and whimsical PS, or even more low-key white with navy edging.


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

I like a black grenadine tie with a charcoal grey suit and white shirt; not with a navy suit.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

paul winston said:


> We do 14 colors in grenadine ties. Black ranks #14 in quantity sold.
> Paul Winston
> Winston Tailors
> www.chipp2.com
> www.grenadineties.com


I'm curious. What are 1-13? In order, of course.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

Like most things, it completely depends on who you are and what's going on. There is a tendency (sometimes) for people to talk about clothes in the abstract, as if neither the situation nor the wearer (both as a physical matter and in terms of his position in the world or situation) matter at all.

If you're under bright lights, being the center of attention of a large crowd of admirers and photographers, have a dashing mien and a bit of the roue about you, a particular look is not only apropos, but perfect. If you're a mid-level accountant being somewhat ignored in a conference room of more important people, there's little reason to believe the same look would be perfect.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Our old friend Cruiser sent me a message on this topic, pointing out that ASW had an article on the virtues of black ties. I post the link here for the review of anyone who's interested: https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/search?q=black+necktie

To be clear, my views regard combing the black necktie with a dark suit and white shirt. There are other combinations that are not as stark. I am not against the black necktie - I am merely skeptical of the men-in-black/blues brothers approach, and believe it should be approached with caution.


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## paul winston (Jun 3, 2006)

cdavant said:


> I'm curious. What are 1-13? In order, of course.


1/Navy 2/LT navy 3/burgundy 4/Yellow 5/Forrest Green 6/Wine 7/ Purple 
8/Wedgewood Blue 9/Rust 10/Gold 11/Olive 12/Khaki 13/ Chocolate Brown
14/Black New Color:Lilac no rank yet
Paul Winston
Winston Tailors
www.chipp2.com/blog/
www.grenadineties.com


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

tocqueville said:


> Clooney at least seems to have some taste.
> 
> As for Clooney and his black grenadine/navy suit ensemble, a reasonable person might think that if Clooney wears it and Jesse Thorne praises it, perhaps there's something to it? It certainly isn't an obvious choice.


I don't - _pace_ your ambivalence in your own posts - take my cues from Hollywood stars or public figures. While I agree Clooney has some taste (cf. DiCaprio's picture in the OP), I would not be influenced in what I wear by what Clooney wears because he wears it (notwithstanding that something he may wear may appeal to me on its own merits).

I choose what I wear based on how I was brought up and what appeals, aesthetically, to me. Obviously that sits to some - but a limited - degree in the context of contemporary opinion (aiming for timeless elegance, rather than anachronistic 'costumes') and prevailing tastes. Am I posting in the wrong place? :icon_smile_big:


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## Jake Genezen (May 27, 2010)

Broken record time: black is only flattering on 'winters'. 

Compare Leonardo DiCaprio and Johnny Depp in a tux, for example, and Depp looks strikingly handsome because he’s a 'winter', and outshines Leo DiCaprio in this instance. 

In my opinion, Prince William do not look good in a tux for this very reason, despite his tux being, presumably, the best royalty can have.

The picture Flanderian posts is an interesting example: the black tie chimes with the gentleman's moustache and hat.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

Balfour said:


> I choose what I wear based on how I was brought up and what appeals, aesthetically, to me. Obviously that sits to some - but a limited - degree in the context of contemporary opinion (aiming for timeless elegance, rather than anachronistic 'costumes') and prevailing tastes. Am I posting in the wrong place? :icon_smile_big:


I think most of us do as you do, or are trying. Certainly, if prevailing tastes were informing my choices, I'd continue to dress as poorly as I did before I started reading AAAC. Unfortunately, these days dressing well means dressing a bit outside of convention. It's about mastering older conventions that have become minority conventions, if you follow. It also takes some confidence.


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## Balfour (Mar 23, 2012)

^ Completely agree. One needs to understand traditional conventions without being enslaved to them or dressing like a peer in an Ealing Comedy. 

Agree too on the confidence point - you need to be prepared to dress in a way that (inevitably) distinguishes you from the majority of people who dress in an almost perpendicularly casual way. In London, on the tube in the rush hour, 85% of people are in a mixture of homogeneous dark poly-cottons, cheap wools and jeans.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

CuffDaddy said:


> Our old friend Cruiser sent me a message on this topic, pointing out that ASW had an article on the virtues of black ties. I post the link here for the review of anyone who's interested: https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/search?q=black+necktie


Also courtesy of ASW, Will models another example of my point -


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I like black ties with pink or grey, probably not with a white shirt.

I don't wear them to funerals; I just wear a conservative tie that goes with my suit.


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## AVBdad (Sep 21, 2009)

IMO - Black tie with a navy suit looks terrible. It's a kin to a navy blazer and black pants.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

CuffDaddy said:


> Our old friend Cruiser sent me a message on this topic, pointing out that ASW had an article on the virtues of black ties. I post the link here for the review of anyone who's interested: https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/search?q=black+necktie
> 
> To be clear, my views regard combing the black necktie with a dark suit and white shirt. There are other combinations that are not as stark. I am not against the black necktie - I am merely skeptical of the men-in-black/blues brothers approach, and believe it should be approached with caution.


Agree with CuffD. as usual. Black necktie with a lighter blue, gray, tan suit, yes, charcoal or navy, probably not, and with a black suit....well, you should have a little chauffeur cap to go with that outfit.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

phyrpowr said:


> Agree with CuffD. as usual. Black necktie with a lighter blue, gray, tan suit, yes, charcoal or navy, probably not, and with a black suit....well, you should have a little chauffeur cap to go with that outfit.


Probably sums up my views better than I could have. Largely inspired by Will's blog post referenced above, I wore a black tie with a medium-dark gray suit to the last dressy social event I attended. I fancied I looked pretty good.


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## dba (Oct 22, 2010)

Evening Smthorpe,

As has been said, just because some folks are rich and famous, doesn't mean they've got any satorial knowledge. I would also think that folks that subscribe to and read this forum want to do more than just "pull it off." But, that's just me, I've been wrong before.


Cheers,


David


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Here a solid black/navy tie primer for solid suits


Light grey suit = navy tie. Also works with a black tie but can look a bit odd, as if you're in a type of uniform

Navy suit = navy tie - textured differently, different shade, shinier etc. Never wear a black tie with a navy suit, unless it's your work uniform or you're at a funeral 

Black suit = black tie. Not that that many people wear a black suit as a first choice sartorially in their off duty hours, but a navy tie can work but looks more than a bit unusual. Not really an option.

Charcoal suit = navy tie. Never wear a black tie with a charcoal suit, unless you're at a funeral


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