# May I ask about Home Theater Systems here?



## noble (May 22, 2007)

If not I apologize.

A friend of ours has just opened an electronics shop near our home. Among all the rest, he sells and installs Bose Home Theater Systems. I know nothing about these sorts of things.

He wants to sell us a Bose system with installation into our living room walls. The system is made up of 5 speakers, a base, an AV receiver and a DVD player. Total price is about 7,350 U.S. dollars. I'm not sure but this sounds like a lot.

To come to my question: is Bose a well respected maker of this type of entertainment system? They're not well known over here.

Thanks all in advance.

noble


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

noble said:


> If not I apologize.
> 
> A friend of ours has just opened an electronics shop near our home. Among all the rest, he sells and installs Bose Home Theater Systems. I know nothing about these sorts of things.
> 
> ...


Bose makes an outstanding sound system and is one of the top brands for speakers.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Some Bose equipment is OK, but it's *ridiculously* overpriced for what you get. $7.5K for a 5.1 audio setup is pretty expensive - for that much you could do a really excellent Denon, Onkyo, B&K, Rotel or Yamaha receiver and DVD player, with a very good speaker package from Atlantic Technologies or NHT. 

I suggest finding a home theater specialty store that carries a few other brands of speakers, and listening to a bunch of them before committing to Bose. I think you'll find you can do at least as good, and probably a lot better, for quite a bit less money.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

Agree with jbmcb. I have owned Bose (901s) years ago. 

Among audiophiles there are many many Bose detractors. Personally, I would not buy any part of a Bose system, either electronics or speakers. 

However, depending on your installation/space requirements, they may be a good option. If you have some flexibility in that regard, there are many much better options.


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## Kingsfield (Nov 15, 2006)

Call Crutchfield. They are VERY helpful. Tell them your goals, price range, and what you are currently considering. See what they recommend. You'll either confirm you're getting a good deal or you'll come away with a better solution. https://www.crutchfield.com/


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2005)

I'm seriously into Audio, and have a marketing client that is an upper end Home Theater dealer. 

No serious home theater installer deals in Bose. There are many options that sound as good for far less money, and there are many better sounding systems for what you pay for Bose. If you're serious about getting a Home Theater done, start subscribing to a magazine like "Home Theater" and read it for a few months. You'll learn a lot from the articles, the letters to the editor, and even the ads. Set a budget and consider the options for what that money buys.

Then again, the system he's offering to install might be perfect for you if (1) the money doesn't matter much to you, (2) you don't have much of a point of reference for what a great system sounds like, or (3) inobtrusive speakers at the expense of performance is important.

[email protected]


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## bus station number 6 (Jul 25, 2008)

When it comes to home audio, there are much better ways to spend your money than Bose. There are many midrange systems out there that are superior at half the price, whereas Bose relies almost exclusively on brand recognition as its primary selling point. If you have the time and patience to put together a system piece by piece, you could spend less than the price of a Bose and have a fantastic system. Not trying to brand bash I just think there are better options out there.


mike


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## Cary Grant (Sep 11, 2008)

Reddington said:


> Bose makes an outstanding sound system and is one of the top brands for speakers.


Bose makes a decent consumer-grade audio system, meaning that it is of average quality.

Compared to the world of 'real' speakers, Bose is an inferior product. What they do nicely is to create pretty decent soundscapes (if not dynamic range) from small packages. However, what they charge for that is obscene.

For $7,000 you can do _much_ better in terms of overlal sound quality, assuming you're talking just the basics: Integrated amp, DVD player and 5.1 surround speakers.

Find an audio specialty store, find a set of natched apeakers you like along with components and cabling that fit your budget. If your total budget was, say, $1000 for everything, I _might _recommend Bose."

For the record- I do own something Bose... the stereo pair and subwoofer for my home PC. Limited space and no desire to run wires for 5.1 so the Bose does a nice job in the office.


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## Franko (Nov 11, 2007)

I think whatever brand/brands you opt for include a radio tuner in your budget, I believe you can obtain a decent one for circa $500, you refered to a Bose AV_* Receiver*_ in your post, this should mean a tuner is included but like others here I think Bose is overhyped and overpriced.

My advocating radio in anyones' set - up is because you will get to hear new, great sounds and will not be constantly playing the same CDs over and over, also the media is free.:icon_smile:

F.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Bose Corporation is well-respected. Founded by MIT professor Amar Bose, their sweetspot has long been speaker systems, which audiophiles either love or hate. While Bose makes a good product, I do agree that you are paying a premium for the brand and you can find superior products for the same price or comparable products a bit cheaper, especially if you shop. But the premium is not only for the brand. The build grade of Bose products is reliably excellent. They are well-engineered and manufactured, and may last somewhat longer than many comparable electronics. One should carefully consider the value of that though, since many consumers are tempted by techological changes to upgrade long before their current system's useful life is over.


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## pweller (May 21, 2008)

It might be worthwhile for you to also consider buying a used system. There is a ton of this home theater stuff for sale used (at least in the US), and most of it sells for less than 1/2 of new cost.

Personally, I think the surround sound thing is a bit over-hyped for most people (including me). You might look into getting a nice stereo system, with the standard 2 channels/speakers, that you can hook up to your TV/video system. I think 2 really nice speakers will sound better than a cheap 5.1 or 7.1 system. You can also do a 2 channel system with a subwoofer.

It's worth browsing craigslist to see what people are selling.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*stereo*

My friend

I have the Bose system. And also mixed with Klipsch. You cant go wrong with this for speakers.
Look at Bang and Olufsen. Great, but expensive CD, receiver and also do speakers.
I prefer the Bose, and the Klipsch.
Nice day


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

DukeGrad said:


> My friend
> 
> I Look at Bang and Olufsen. Great, but expensive CD, receiver and also do speakers.


B & O is not an electronics brand as such, like for example Sony or Panasonic, it is a Danish design house that built most of its range on Philips products.

B & O for the most part nowadays has almost stopped trading in Sweden anyway, most of its Swedish shops having shut down in the last few years. Instead nowadays you can buy B & O designed products with their orignal makers badge on i.e. Philips. and at less than half the price.

B & O were ridiculously overpriced simply for design not function.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Bang and Olufsen.*

Gentlemen

I disagree with the Earl. Look at the B&O. It is costly. I place it at the higher end of equipment.They have grown over the years.
I have had no problems.
I have owned most everything over the years. They do not compare to the B&O.
I also recommend Steinway, the old piano maker does speakers etc,
That is costly.
Again, recommend marrying your equipment to a very good speaker system, rather than a whole set.
I elected Klipsh. I am a big fan of Danish, German.
I feel make the best stuff.
IMO

Nice day


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## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

You can't go wrong with Paradigm speakers all around and an Onkyo receiver. I wouldn't take a Bose sound system if you gave it to me. For 7 grand you could get a LOT better.


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## 77Pat (Dec 14, 2008)

You could do better for the money if you do not have small speaker size requirements. I would look at sites like avsforum and audioholics for researching different sets and getting user reviews. I also agree with going to a local hi-fi store and listening yourself to see what you like best. Usually if you go local, you can get a discount with a package deal.


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## Cpt.Beaky (Jun 22, 2008)

Dr. Amar Bose's main contribution to audio reproduction has been patent piracy and marketing.

Thin plastic enclosures and small, cheap, paper woofers can't be fixed by any amount of EQing.

If all you want is Bose performance, you can get a something with small speakers and similar functionality for under $2000 that will sound significantly better (though if you want really good sound you simply have to have at least regular bookshelf-size speakers).

This is a half-decent start that comes in for half the price, WITH a television:
https://www.audioholics.com/buying-...d-av-system/equipment-product-recommendations

If you really want to spend ~$7000 on your audio system, you could get some REALLY nice stuff.


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

Although McIntosh is really expensive, I bought used, and saved a bundle. I bought a C34-V pre-amp for $700., and an MC2250 amp for about $1300. I added a pair of B+W P6 speakers and a B+W sub for another $2500, and although I don't have true surround, I have a dang fine stereo. I also think that cables are important. Most important, however is listening to several systems and deciding which one you like best.
Good Luck!


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Check out Denon. Or, you could just spend some more money and go with McIntosh. :icon_smile_big:

I also like Klipsch and Onkyo. btw, DukeGrad, Klipsch is based in Indiana.

Edit: Looks like msphotog beat me to the McIntosh recommendation.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

msphotog said:


> Although McIntosh is really expensive, I bought used, and saved a bundle. I bought a C34-V pre-amp for $700., and an MC2250 amp for about $1300. I added a pair of B+W P6 speakers and a B+W sub for another $2500, and although I don't have true surround, I have a dang fine stereo. I also think that cables are important. Most important, however is listening to several systems and deciding which one you like best.
> Good Luck!


B&W, I forgot about them. They make really good speakers. Sounds like you have a good system.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Macintosh/Bose*

My friends

I agree about the Macintosh. I got my first stereo around 40 years ago. Started with the Mac.

The Paradigm are a wonderful choice as well.
Again, the Bose are very great speakers. I have had Bose here and there. And no problem.
Lax Player, Klipsch is in Indiana. I was talking about the B&O.

I agree with pweller. I have the 5-1 series. And married this up with 2 Klipsch speakers.
I would not pay 5-7 grand though. That is too much.
Look at Paradigm, Klipsch, someone mentioned Atlantic Tech. for speakers.

Again, all thr names mentioned are all great stereo equip. The Denon, Mac, Yamaha, Sansui, and the list goes on for your receiver and amp. CD player.
To the gym, nice day


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Receiver etc/Polk*

My friend

Bose makes great speakers. Too much now. Get a separate stereo this includes receiver,amp, cd player.
The speaker we mention here are great additions to the stereo.

Another speaker is Polk, and also Boston Acoustic.

All are cheaper and comparable to the Bose.
If I were to get a new system, I would go with the Polk, or Paradigm. Or Boston acoustics for my speakers.

Again, have to look at several systems.
All we mentioned are great.
I also recommend JVC, Denon, Yamaha, Sansui. Sammsung makes nice stuff now. I think above and beyons for televiosioss now.

I would look at JVC. Cheaper and not a bad system. And the denon, Yamaha.

The B&O is way too much now my friend.

Merry Xmas


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Bose never gets much love among audiophiles and think it is fair to say that they are overpriced for a medium grade system.

Someone suggested that a 5.1 speaker system is not worthwhile and I would suggest that it depends on the source material. It is probably not for straight music, but for movies I think it is. I am not sure how much the rear speakers add, but I noticed a big difference after adding a center front channel even before I bought matching speakers. 

I have a 12" Velodyne sub is a fairly small room and would probably buy a more modest one next time as I don't think sonic accuracy is too important when we are listing to car crashes and a lot of stuff blowing up in action movies.

$7K seems like a lot, but one thing we have not considered is that it includes installation of in-wall speakers. The wall structure and whether there is an attic and/or crawl space could make some difference as could the addition of shelves or some wall unit to hold the components.


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## Cary Grant (Sep 11, 2008)

Nicesuit said:


> You can't go wrong with Paradigm speakers all around and an Onkyo receiver. I wouldn't take a Bose sound system if you gave it to me. For 7 grand you could get a LOT better.


I actually have Paradigm 5.1 at home with my TV (Marantz reciever). The Paradigms in my range were well-priced for a mid-grade consumer system.

If I had $7k for theater I'd likely put about $4k of that into speakers and use the rest for hardware. :icon_smile:


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## Cary Grant (Sep 11, 2008)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> Someone suggested that a 5.1 speaker system is not worthwhile and I would suggest that it depends on the source material.


Agreed. I rarely listen to music at home these days and never on my 5.1 as the L/R are not adequate for pure stereo enjoyment. If I ever get back into music, I'll invest in a high-end stereo pair on it's own channel.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

Right you are, JISSC.

A 2.1 system is perfectly fine for listening to your favorite tunes (or opera, whatever). In fact it can be absolutely amazing with the right system and I prefer it.

For home theater, it must be 5.1 (at least). The sub-woofer adds the punch/bass for those low frequency, impact effects. Rear speakers... well better speaker will sound better, of course, but the highest of high fidelity is not that critical here. If money is no concern, get the very best rear speakers. Otherwise, a good small speaker will be much more than adequate for the rears.

$7k puts you into the range where you can get an excellent system, speakers and electronics. Certainly well above anything that Bose makes.

Again, much of this is contingent on whether you have the flexibility to meet the necessary space and installation requirements.


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## 77Pat (Dec 14, 2008)

Also, if you are going to spend $7,000 I would put $1,000-$2,000 of that into room treatments to get the most out of the system.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*7 grand*

Gentlemen

The Steinway speakers can run up to 150K. LOL.For the system!
Oops, sorry. I just heard they are in to speakers as well. Very well IMO.

I think you can get a nice system well under 7 grand. You should shoot for 3000 grand to 4. Even less.
Most great 5-1 systems(speakers) run between 700-1500.Look at Polk, Bose, Boston Acoustics for this price range. Paradigm is up 
Nice receiver 900-1000 grand(Yamaha, Harmon Kardon) There best models.
There is cheaper and very good. Someone mentioned Denon which is a nice choice
CD/DVD very cheap now.variable.

The TV is where it is at. I am not a plasma freak. HDTV is all I need, and 32 inches is too much for me for a Duke game.
There, is where the money is gonna go .
I think to start with a nice 5-1 system and go from there.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Merry Xmas*

Nice evening to all of you.
Enjoy your new stereo
Merry Xmas


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## Cary Grant (Sep 11, 2008)

77Pat said:


> Also, if you are going to spend $7,000 I would put $1,000-$2,000 of that into room treatments to get the most out of the system.


Meaning for acoustic purposes? If so, I disagree. Most people don't have that sort of ear, nor the initial room shape to really matter, not to mention it should be done by an acoustician.

I'd agree if we were talking a true theater room, with a much larger budget.

Somehow though, I think this thread is beginning to speak beyond the OP's original intent. :icon_smile_wink:


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## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

Cary Grant said:


> I actually have Paradigm 5.1 at home with my TV (Marantz reciever). The Paradigms in my range were well-priced for a mid-grade consumer system.
> 
> If I had $7k for theater I'd likely put about $4k of that into speakers and use the rest for hardware. :icon_smile:


It's hard to beat Paradigm speakers. Especially if you get a good deal on some used sets. I love the sound for both movies and music and I do think you'd have to spend two or three times the money to hear an appreciable difference in sound quality. And their new Studio series is spectacular.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

DukeGrad said:


> Gentlemen
> 
> I disagree with the Earl. /quote]
> 
> Duke, you may disagree sir. But facts are facts. B & O is a design house that uses Philips products FACT.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

It looks to me like we are talking apples and oranges here, on several fronts.

First with regard to Bose, I think Bose products get a bad rap with audiophiles not so much because of the quality but rather because of the simplicity and ease of set up/use that is generally found in Bose systems. Audiophiles hate this because it allows regular folks to have a great system without knowing all of the technical aspects of this equipment and how to put together a "system".

This is found in just about any area where enthusiasts gather, be it photography, computers, dare I say clothing, etc. Enthusiasts love to know what others don't and they love it even more when others must rely on their expertise. This is precisely why most of us use PC's instead of Macs. Geeks hated Macs because everyman could actually understand them so all of the emphasis was put on developing PCs for the computer geeks.

But back to the OP. He is asking about a Bose system costing over $7K when the excellent Bose 5.1 system can be had just about anywhere for less than $3K. Apparently there is over $4K for something else here that has to be considered, unless of couse everything in Thailand is that much higher in which case the cost of any other system would also have to be inflated to account for this high price.

The Bose 5.1 Lifestyle system in an excellent home theater system. Can someone who knows what they are doing put together a better system for the same money? Probably, but it's also easy to cobble together a much lesser quality system for more money if you don't know what you are doing. But for everyman who isn't an audiophile, it would be hard to be disappointed in the quality of the Bose; and everyman certainly isn't going to be disappointed in it's simplicity and ease of use. 

So my question is, why does this system cost over $7,000 in Thailand?

Cruiser


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> It looks to me like we are talking apples and oranges here, on several fronts.
> 
> First with regard to Bose, I think Bose products get a bad rap with audiophiles not so much because of the quality but rather because of the simplicity and ease of set up/use that is generally found in Bose systems. Audiophiles hate this because it allows regular folks to have a great system without knowing all of the technical aspects of this equipment and how to put together a "system".
> 
> ...


Cruiser, I respectfully disagree with your comments. I think your assumptions about 'audiophiles' (and even photographers, but that's another long post) are too generalized. "Audiophiles" tend to think the whole surround sound/home theater phenomenon is just another poor attempt to replicate live performance, imposing a new set of problems in sound reproduction, when in fact two-channel sound still does as good or better a job for music. The whole 'reproduce the theater experience at home' thing is kind of anti-audiophile, to me.

As someone who loves the phenomenon of fantastic music reproduction at home, the thing that bugs me about Bose is that their products way over promise and under deliver. In their pursuit of simplicity and engineering innovation they miss the mark for real performance--good sound reproduction. And, in addition to missing that mark, they hype the products through aggressive direct marketing tactics that convince people who don't know better to pay much more than the product is worth. I've used many Bose products and the only one that I thought was worth the money was the iPod dock, and then only because it was a unique product...now there are many, many solid competitors for less $$$.

I am sure there are analogies in the clothing space...brands that deliver very fashionable but fundamentally inferior, inflexible clothes at too high a price that are successful due to distorted public perception created by a high level of consumer marketing.

In any case, if someone is thinking about dropping 7 grand on speakers, they should sample many, many sets in their price range and buy what makes their ears happy, and if the Bose wins, more power to you.

[email protected]


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## 77Pat (Dec 14, 2008)

In regards to bose, they are one of the only speaker companies to not post the technical information on their site. They also set up in store so consumers cannot compare the speakers directly against others. This is the only review I have found that shows actual measurements, but I do not know if they have a bias against bose or if it is legitimate. Although this is also about one of their mid priced systems. I do not know if I am allowed to post links, but if not then I will remove it. https://www.intellexual.net/bose.html


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## Cary Grant (Sep 11, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> First with regard to Bose, I think Bose products get a bad rap with audiophiles not so much because of the quality but rather because of the simplicity and ease of set up/use that is generally found in Bose systems. Audiophiles hate this because it allows regular folks to have a great system without knowing all of the technical aspects of this equipment and how to put together a "system".


No- I don't think snobby jealousy about ease is it. It's the fact that Bose just doesn't approach "audiophile" quality. It is very good for a space-saving system, but the overlal sound can compete.

I work in broadcasting, I've seen endless systems benchmarked. Bose is not comparable. But again- it can sound good and for most consumers that's OK. Witness MP3's- they are not audiophile quality in the slightest but that vast majority of the world is happy with it.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Cary Grant said:


> I've seen endless systems benchmarked. Bose is not comparable. But again- it can sound good and for most consumers that's OK.


And that essentially sums up my whole point. I have never personally owned a Bose product. I almost bought their radio for my office but got a Tivoli instead, and I'm very pleased with the quality of the Tivoli; but I do have several friends who own Bose systems including the 3-2-1 and the Lifestyles 5.1. None of these folks are in the least disappointed with what they have.

It's the same with clothing. Can you get a better suit than the one on the rack at Macy's? Of course you can, but for many people the one at Macy's is more than adequate for their suit needs. There is a point of diminishing returns for them where the features that make one more desirable, to some anyway, are simply not important to them.

I took some pictures on Christmas Eve and again yesterday. I used a disposable point and shoot camera that I bought for $7.99 at CVS. I have some friends who just shake their heads and smile at my low tech photography. In their eyes my pictures pale in quality to what they can do with their equipment, not to mention their arguments about how over time I can actually save money by buying a quality camera. They mean well but it's just easier pick up one of these little $7.99 things and be done with it. I'm happy with the pictures I get and I don't have to fool with the equipment.

Like you said, or implied, it's all about what is acceptable to each individual consumer; and whether we are talking audio, photography, or clothing, this varies from consumer to consumer. I think the best way for an "expert" in something to help a novice is to help them get what satisfies them rather than what satisfies the expert. Each person's point of diminishing returns is different.

Cruiser


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> It's the same with clothing. Can you get a better suit than the one on the rack at Macy's? Of course you can, but for many people the one at Macy's is more than adequate for their suit needs.


That's not quite a direct comparison. Buying a suit at Macy's is fine because you're probably aren't going to pay a lot of money. Now, if you walk into Macy's and pay $900 for a Polo green label, you're getting ripped off.

Same deal with Bose. If you cold pick up an Acoustimass 5.1 system for $300, nobody would blink an eye if you bought one. However, they push upwards of $700 retail - a ridiculous sum for what you get.

There is a convenience factor, absolutely. It's convenient walking into a Bose store and buying one box that has everything you need inside. However, you could just as easily walk into a decent home theater store, tell them you want to spend $1500, and they'll probably put together a system for you that's every bit as good as a $3000 Bose Lifestyle system. For a few hundred more they'll install it for you. I think the savings involved are well worth the small bit of trouble initially.


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## Cary Grant (Sep 11, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> And that essentially sums up my whole point.


But you threw in the term :audiophile" which is where the argumnent fails.

For Joe consumer with no good sense of what good audio should sound like, OK. But that does not make Bose a good deal. It just means the consumer is getting overcharged.


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