# The houndstooth thread



## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

A thread dedicated to the beloved dog-tooth check.

Share your favorites or express your dislike. 
I'm hoping there will be photos to follow. Post 'em up as you come across them.


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Roll Tide!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_Bryant


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

To get things started;

(sorry, I'll resize and try later) Man those were big.


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## ASF (Mar 6, 2006)

I saw some beautiful Houndstooth jackets today at Paul Stuart. They almost made a grown man cry. Snif, snif.

asf


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Houndstooth is one of my favorites, but I'm still on the hunt for the perfect houndstooth sportcoat. IIRC, there's a gorgeous example by Kiton in Roetzel's "Gentleman" book. The cloth is great.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

No pictures but I have houndstooth in the following:

Sports jacket (one pure houndstooth and several plaids with a houndstooth base pattern)

Trousers (at least two pair in different colors)

Tie (more of a puppytooth really)


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Attempt #2; butter soft jacket


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

From the woolen vault, Left to Right: MTM kilt jacket and waistcoat (w/lapels), Huntington Clothiers 3-2 Sack, BB via AlanC 3-2 sack

Scott


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Scott, just the stuff I was hoping for. Thanks for the post. Love the shet on the far right.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

BUT, I wonder if jamgood will come along and point out that tech'ly the two on da right ain't hounds.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

The one on the bottom is my houndstooth jacket, it's got a vest too.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Nice, Tilt. I hope you'll repost later with 1) a sharper image 2) a shot of that 2 piece country suit in action.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

To Patrick with love





how cool is it that she stands to pee?


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

A.Squire said:


> BUT, I wonder if jamgood will come along and point out that tech'ly the two on da right ain't hounds.


Don't leave me hanging, neighbor. Please educate me.

Scott


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

oh, sorry. Truth is I'm just guessing. I would think it's some variant and if anyone would know, I'm thinking it's jamgood. Probably has some archaic district check name.


A little something on the d. l., he's building quite the rep at market or so I hear. Word is, he's in the bizz and if he ain't he could be if he wanted.


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

For sale:

Houndstooth jacket, made by Norman Hilton, 43R, 2 button, darted

https://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1001857mp2.jpg

https://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1001858la5.jpg


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Kindly keep your adverts on the for sale page or find a Crimson Tide forum.

We're talking real clothing here.


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

A.Squire said:


> Kindly keep your adverts on the for sale page or find a Crimson Tide forum.
> 
> We're talking real clothing here.


What??










You know, I went to this tailor in Birmingham who claims to have not only outfitted Bear Bryant with all of his suits and sport jackets through the years, but also said that _he_ was the one who gave him that hat. While I was skeptical about his stories, in spite of all of the pictures of Bear Bryant on the walls of his store, there was later an article in a Birmingham independent paper about it.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Those were bad days to be a Tiger, or anyone else for that matter. of course, it's funny how everything seems to cycle 'round again.
----



Release the Hounds!


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

My last contribution of today: an orvis made in england harris tweed shooting jacket:


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

Tenichally, one thinks a true hounds/dogtooth is restricted to two alteration colors. One just kaint go around callin' stuff jus anthin 1 wonts, now can one? One is the lonliest #, no other nubmer is as lonliess as one. Sos 2 ant lonly nomatter whatchacallit. Rite? OK?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houndstooth not to be confused with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogtooth_tuna

www.gypsywearvintage.com/checks.htm

Fer yer enlitenmint:

Gitit?


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## Plainsman (Jun 29, 2006)

tripreed said:


>


Blech!

War Eagle!


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^Bear's hat is really more of a shepherd's check, isn't it? 

Upon relocating to Alabama I was heartened to learn that Mr. Bryant had found successful employment after leaving the University of Kentucky, a nice epilogue to his career.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

Thank you, Jammy, for that informative information - especially the district check article. But I have been contemplating on what makes a houndstooth a houndstooth, and I believe I would have to respectfully disagree with your assertion that the only true houndstooth is the two-color variety. In my mind, it's more about the shape of the check than the variety (or lack thereof) of the stripe colors. 

*Warning* - Don't read any further unless you're a textile geek or a weaver.

In my understanding to get a houndstooth check, you need these factors: 1) a simple 2:2 twill weave 2) contrasting colors in even thread count alternating stripes, in both the warp and weft. The "ground" or light color doesn't change, but I contend the darker colors can, as long as they repeat in a "mirror image" manner in both the warp and weft.

I would say many district checks could be described as houndstooths (teeth?), but certainly not all. I would definitely not classify a Gen Urquhart or Prince of Wales pattern a "houndstooth", but they both undeniably contain blocks of houndstooth patterns alternated by striped or "ticked" blocks.

What I haven't figured out yet is how you change the size of the check. Is it done solely by increasing the diameter of the thread, or can you increase the thread counts of the stripes in both directions? It seems to me the former; because it seems you would also need to increase the twill "skip" (I don't know the technical term) in order to preserve the jagged look of the check. Tartan is woven in 2:2 twill also, and it doesn't show the jagged nature of the houndstooth in its color transitions.

Any weavers or Textile Engineers out there?

Alan C - I think a shepards check is a houndstooth. I believe the shepards check is the simplest houndstooth of all, being alternating black and white.

Not sure why this arcane point interests me so - I have to get back to work.

Scott


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Naval Gent said:


> Alan C - I think a shepards check is a houndstooth. I believe the shepards check is the simplest houndstooth of all, being alternating black and white.


I think there's a difference. A shepherd's check has plaid-like lines that overlap, but are also fairly smooth. A houndstooth has the alternating jagged tooth shapes to them.

This is a picture of a shepherd's check swatch I swiped from Will's blog:










Here is a (somewhat unclear) picture of wedding ties,(l to r) houndstooth, shepherd's check and glen plaid:


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

^ Hmm. To me, the houndstooth and shepherds check neckties looks like the same thing, differing only in the size of the check.

I gotta' let this go...

Scott


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

From the :

Shepherd's Check (l); Dogtooth (r)



Note how the Shepherd's check has smooth edges to the check squares while the dogtooth is jagged and the black and white shapes 'intrude' on each other.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

^
As usual, you are an excellent provider of information


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Back to houndstooth, I figure I just need a houndstooth jacket to pull it all together...


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

^
A test of your skills-can you put it all together?
I have the upmost confident that you can


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

AlanC said:


> Back to houndstooth, I figure I just need a houndstooth jacket to pull it all together...


I expected more you.

I'm sorry I didn't make it home before the sun set, I hit a double.


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## TweedyDon (Aug 31, 2007)

Interesting distinction between the houndstooth and the shepard's check. I've heard, though, that "houndstooth" is referred to as "puppytooth" by Savile Row tailors. Anyone confirm or deny?


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

How about a nice cashmere poochtooth kitchen frock for the little lady? The "June Cleaver"
































Ora "kilt" for yourself























And you't wanna top your "kilt" with an insouciantly(?!) mismatched Prince Charlie goatee


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

*More Textile Geek Info*

AlanC has most capably pointed out the subtle visual difference in the Houndstooth and the Shepherd's Check patterns. Because I am a guy who has a compulsion to know how things work, I've been trying to figure out what makes them different. I haven't yet (I think it's a slight variation in the twill pattern), but I have come across a great web site with some definitive woolen information you might find interesting.

So just in time for cooler weather, here's a good set of definitions for the woolen products we are fond of. These come from the web site of the Worpshipful Company of Weavers at 

The Company have been recognized officially since 1155, so they ought to know what they are talking about, being worshipful and all. (They have a good heraldic artist, to boot.)

*tweed*
A term given to a long list of medium weight, rough woollen fabrics, usually made with a 2-up and 2-down weave, such as twill weave or hopsack weave. Tweed can be made in solid colours, mixtures, blends, stripes, checks, with dobby patterns or Jacquard patterns, but all should traditionally be made of 100% wool. The word tweed came about by accident, by the slip of a London cloth merchant's pen in about 1840, when referring to a consignment of 'tweel cloth' woven with a twill weave in the Borders of Scotland. Coincidently much of the tweed industry developed and remained for many years along the banks of the River Tweed, in the Borders of Scotland. Tweed has a variety of uses including jackets , suits, skirts and hats. Some of the most well known tweeds are: Bannockburn, Connemara, Harris, Irish, Knickerbocker, Linton, Lovat, Shetland and Thornproof.

*dogtooth*
A pattern made with four dark coloured threads in the warp and weft alternating with four lighter coloured threads using a 2-and 2 twill weave. See houndstooth.

*houndstooth*
A colour and weave effect produced with a combination of 4 and 4, or 8 and 8, threads of contrasting colours in the warp crossed with similar wefts and woven in a 2 and 2 twill to form a jagged check. See shepherd's check.

*shepherd's check*
A check effect, normally using in black and white yarns. The yarns are usually arranged in groups of either 4 white and 4 black, 6 white and 6 black or 8 white and 8 black. Woven in a 2 and 2 twill weave. Similar checks are called dog's tooth or hound's tooth checks. 

*district checks*
Scottish district checks are synonymous with glenchecks which are woollen check cloths or tweeds designed for use as the livery of Scottish estates. See glen checks.

*glen checks*
Sometimes referred to as Scottish Estate Tweeds or in the United States of America as Gun Club Checks and are synonymous with Scottish district checks. These distinctive woollen tweeds, with bold but sometimes subtle checks were, and continue in some cases, to be woven in the Highlands of Scotland. Originally designed as the livery for the landowners and their estates they identify the people who live and work in the same area whether they are related or not. Modified versions of glen checks were adopted by some individual regiments in the British army and often worn by officers when out of uniform as 'plain clothes', sometimes referred to as mufti. The word glen is Scottish for valley. See district checks and tartan.
Long list of glen checks deleted

*tartan*
Traditional, authentic tartan cloths are usually made of wool in a twill weave. It is, however, possible to weave tartan, with any textile fibre provided that the sett (number of threads per colour in each warp and each weft stripe) is accurate and accredited by The Scottish Tartan Society and recorded in the Register of All Publicly Known Tartans. The Falkirk sett, the earliest known tartan woven from the undyed brown and natural white wool of the Soay sheep, dates back to the 3rd century AD. There are three types of tartan pattern:
Symmetrical setts
Asymmetrical setts
Equal check
Although tartans were woven and used earlier than the 18th century, clan tartans had not yet emerged. Sometimes the term tartan is confused with the term plaid. The word tartan is derived from the French word tiretaine meaning linsey-woolsey. 

*plaid*
A piece of tartan woollen cloth approximately 1800mm wide by 3600mm to 5400mm long, and used as part of the older form of Scottish Highland dress. The plaid was pleated so that the width was adjusted to the girth of the wearer. Secured by a leather belt and pinned on the left shoulder with a large brooch, it was known as the belted plaid. Conveniently it could also be used as a blanket. The Scottish kilt, measuring 760mm wide and between 6000mm and 7000mm long, unpleated, is a development of the belted plaid. In the United States of America tartan is often referred to as plaid.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

*More Textile Geek Info*

AlanC has most capably pointed out the subtle visual difference in the Houndstooth and the Shepherd's Check patterns. Because I am a guy who has a compulsion to know how things work, I've been trying to figure out what makes them different. I haven't yet (I think it's a slight variation in the twill pattern), but I have come across a great web site with some definitive woolen information you might find interesting.

So just in time for cooler weather, here's a good set of definitions for the woolen products we are fond of. These come from the web site of the Worpshipful Company of Weavers at 

The Company have been recognized officially since 1155, so they ought to know what they are talking about, being worshipful and all. (They have a good heraldic artist, to boot.)

*tweed*
A term given to a long list of medium weight, rough woollen fabrics, usually made with a 2-up and 2-down weave, such as twill weave or hopsack weave. Tweed can be made in solid colours, mixtures, blends, stripes, checks, with dobby patterns or Jacquard patterns, but all should traditionally be made of 100% wool. The word tweed came about by accident, by the slip of a London cloth merchant's pen in about 1840, when referring to a consignment of 'tweel cloth' woven with a twill weave in the Borders of Scotland. Coincidently much of the tweed industry developed and remained for many years along the banks of the River Tweed, in the Borders of Scotland. Tweed has a variety of uses including jackets , suits, skirts and hats. Some of the most well known tweeds are: Bannockburn, Connemara, Harris, Irish, Knickerbocker, Linton, Lovat, Shetland and Thornproof.

*dogtooth*
A pattern made with four dark coloured threads in the warp and weft alternating with four lighter coloured threads using a 2-and 2 twill weave. See houndstooth.

*houndstooth*
A colour and weave effect produced with a combination of 4 and 4, or 8 and 8, threads of contrasting colours in the warp crossed with similar wefts and woven in a 2 and 2 twill to form a jagged check. See shepherd's check.

*shepherd's check*
A check effect, normally using in black and white yarns. The yarns are usually arranged in groups of either 4 white and 4 black, 6 white and 6 black or 8 white and 8 black. Woven in a 2 and 2 twill weave. Similar checks are called dog's tooth or hound's tooth checks. 

*district checks*
Scottish district checks are synonymous with glenchecks which are woollen check cloths or tweeds designed for use as the livery of Scottish estates. See glen checks.

*glen checks*
Sometimes referred to as Scottish Estate Tweeds or in the United States of America as Gun Club Checks and are synonymous with Scottish district checks. These distinctive woollen tweeds, with bold but sometimes subtle checks were, and continue in some cases, to be woven in the Highlands of Scotland. Originally designed as the livery for the landowners and their estates they identify the people who live and work in the same area whether they are related or not. Modified versions of glen checks were adopted by some individual regiments in the British army and often worn by officers when out of uniform as 'plain clothes', sometimes referred to as mufti. The word glen is Scottish for valley. See district checks and tartan.
Long list of glen checks deleted

*tartan*
Traditional, authentic tartan cloths are usually made of wool in a twill weave. It is, however, possible to weave tartan, with any textile fibre provided that the sett (number of threads per colour in each warp and each weft stripe) is accurate and accredited by The Scottish Tartan Society and recorded in the Register of All Publicly Known Tartans. The Falkirk sett, the earliest known tartan woven from the undyed brown and natural white wool of the Soay sheep, dates back to the 3rd century AD. There are three types of tartan pattern:
Symmetrical setts
Asymmetrical setts
Equal check
Although tartans were woven and used earlier than the 18th century, clan tartans had not yet emerged. Sometimes the term tartan is confused with the term plaid. The word tartan is derived from the French word tiretaine meaning linsey-woolsey. 

*plaid*
A piece of tartan woollen cloth approximately 1800mm wide by 3600mm to 5400mm long, and used as part of the older form of Scottish Highland dress. The plaid was pleated so that the width was adjusted to the girth of the wearer. Secured by a leather belt and pinned on the left shoulder with a large brooch, it was known as the belted plaid. Conveniently it could also be used as a blanket. The Scottish kilt, measuring 760mm wide and between 6000mm and 7000mm long, unpleated, is a development of the belted plaid. In the United States of America tartan is often referred to as plaid.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

Thanks, Naval Gent - great info!


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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

What do you call something like this which seems to be a bunch of different checks? Patch checks?


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

^I'd call that a variation of the Glen Urquhart / Prince of Wales check. The Glen Urq is usually woven in black & white I think, and the POW is the same thing with a red windowpane superimposed. (all from memory - could be slightly different) 

Scott


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

AP, I think if you pull back from that pattern it may simply be a Glen plaid.

NG, I note in your posted definitions that Shepherd's check is compared closely to houndstooth. Certainly, they are closely related, but I do believe there is the subtle distinction as shown in the swatch pictures above.


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## Naval Gent (May 12, 2007)

^Agree with the subtle diff between "houndstooth" and "Shepherds". I looked at them hard, and the checks are definitely different shapes. The difference does not seem to be tied to thread count. Must be in the weave.

I think calling that jacket a "Glen Plaid" would not be incorrect. In my recent reading I recall something saying that "Glen Plaid" was shorthand for the Gen Urquhart. Nevertheless, Jamgood's most excellent cite, shows a couple of patterns named Glen something-or-other that are variations of the Shepherds.

What I've learned - Everything seems to be a variation of something else with subtle distinctions. Absolute statements are made at one's peril.

Scott


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## Charley (Feb 8, 2005)

AldenPyle said:


> What do you call something like this which seems to be a bunch of different checks? Patch checks?


I suppose that I'm not quite as worried about the nomenclature.

*Damned Handsome Fabric* is the exact description I'd use.

But, probably some color variation on the POW check in a brown vs grey.


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

looks great squire.


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## Lucky Strike (Feb 23, 2006)

I like them on shirts:


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

Help me, Trads.
I purchased a wool/cashmere suit woven in a houndstooth pattern of navy, tan & gray. It has a three button closure and is ventless. 

I have been having a bear of a time trying to find the right shirt and tie combination and as thus - it remains unworn. Any suggestions?


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

^Solid shirts would work, of course, (ecru/cream particularly) but also consider a blue butcher stripe. Ties with larger designs like paisley or thick stripes would work, also solid ties with texture.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Really great photos lucky. I'm not sure I've ever seen a houndstooth so dressed up. Thanks for the post.

*slam dunks!


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

*Here are a couple for you...*


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

^You're looking good, AlanC. Who's the guy in the first photo.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

A.Squire said:


> ^You're looking good, AlanC. Who's the guy in the first photo.


Looks like William Powell, star of the charming "Thin Man" series, among other films.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

From zegnamtl's current Oxxford thread:

https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


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## spielerman (Jul 21, 2007)

Love the jacket, looking at a Southwick just like it, what color trousers do you wear with this odd jacket?


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Thanks. It's a linen blend but heavy. So far I've worn the Driving Twill by Bill, khaki colored gabs by BB and, this winter, choc. flannel by Hiltel.


With these, a blue blazer and bow.


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## spielerman (Jul 21, 2007)

A.Squire said:


> To Patrick with love
> 
> how cool is it that she stands to pee?


This one still busts me up.. had to go find it again to bring some comic relief to an otherwise wild day.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

I'm glad you bumped; I'd forgotten what I started here and where I was going. I'll get back on track this week with a few pics. Lot's more to come, stay tuned...and please join as the mood strikes.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

*Hounds teeth*

Try as I might, I couldn't get them both to smile...


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

The knot?--I picked that up from one of Untilted's posts.


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## Thornhill (May 14, 2006)

Nice pictures, particularly of the dogs. It took me a while to figure out that you are wearing a popover. It looks good. I forget -- did you get those at Wm. King or did you have them made? I guess it could be both.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Wm. that's right. And evidently you weren't among those who phoned in their order. Not too late though, but I must tell you supplies are limited. 

Actually, they're all gone--and I'm telling you he had an entire wall full of them.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

^ 
Thank you for posting the pictures. I like your bow


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Hey, thanks, Mac. I thought you might have protested about me wearing khakis all the time. Once again though your eye picked up on the fact that those were no ordinary khakis, but The Driving Twill by Bill--slightly dressier than chinos and just the ticket for an open patched pocket hounds tooth sport jacket.

*thanks for the PM

**These khakis I can't recommend enough; they're a guaranteed winner. Put 'em on your Christmas list and remember to kick it up a bit.


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## Speas (Mar 11, 2004)

Here's the new BB sack ("Saxxon® Wool Gunclub Check Sport Coat"). It says 2btn on the webpage, but its wrong.

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...=1232832&Parent_Id=202&default_color=Grey-tan


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

I don't hate that guy for having better hair than me--really, I could care less...I hate him because of the way he smirks, knowing all the while I'm envious of his jacket. Actually, I like it just ok & I'd only ever buy it cause I know Untilted is going ga ga over the shoulders and I'd like to smirk at him. Actually, I'd buy him his own if he'd resume posting.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

they actually have it in my size.


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

*Patrick's Vest*










(hope you don't mind me stealing this for my thread)


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

^ You accomplished your objective


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

Very nice, A. Squire. Are those socks the Jos. A Bank offering or from Brooks Brothers? Or none of the above?


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

I'm not sure to be honest. I have them in the brown/tan and black/grey combos as well. Brown/tan gets the most action.


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## spinlps (Feb 15, 2004)

All I have save for squares & socks... and even then the contribution is minimal.

Shirt: Harold's - Blue spread collar w/ double cuffs
Ties L - R: 
- Tagless wool brown mini-tooth I borrowed from my father's closet when I left for college (hard to believe that was almost 20 years ago)
- PRL Silk Green w/ Purple over tooth (?)
- PRL wool brown large tooth


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## A.Squire (Apr 5, 2006)

Wow, when (and with what) do you wear that shirt? Nice ties.


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## spinlps (Feb 15, 2004)

A.Squire said:


> Wow, when (and with what) do you wear that shirt? Nice ties.


Thanks. Usually a navy or grey suit and with a striped or patterned tie. Shirt appears more subtle in person, like a textured blue... that's what I tell myself anyway. Have to admit its not in the regular rotation... maybe 10 times a year, tops.


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