# Trad thoughts on Fleece?



## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm looking for a garment that is not very trad at all... a Fleece Vest. Nevertheless, I do want a product that is made of quality materials and will last years or even a lifetime. So many brands exist, and each has enough different options to make choosing one an onerous task. I gather that Arc’teryx is probably the best quality, and that Columbia is probably trailing behind the pack, but I’m not sure where everything else fall between.

What are y'all's thoughts on fleece garments? Which brands and products do y'all recommend?


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

In this area, fleece is often seen in town and in the mountains. You are correct that Arc'teryx is higher (or highest) end. I wore four of their garments at different times during ten seasons as a volunteer federal ski ranger. However, both Patagonia and North Face are also worn by serious people. Consider what design features you want. Is a two-way zipper important? Will you be in the snow, where almost anything dropped is lost? If so, the number, location, size and closures of pockets are important. Do you want or need a storm collar? How noticeable do you want the color to be? I don't know about Columbia, but I think you would do well with any of the three brands mentioned.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

For my money it doesn't get better than a Patagonia retro x fleece vest. 

I've handled Arcteryx products but never used them. They seem very sound. 

Also, if they make them, a Patagonia R4 would be right up there with a retro x. 

You see, not only are these great for layering, they are also wind proof and quite water resistant. 

Come to think of it, I also have the marmot vest with Gore windstopper. It's also wind proof and not as thick as the Patagonian. Which I like. Problem is I have Goldens and they stick to the Marmot like velcro. No so with the Retro X. 

And finally, the pile on the Retro x looks great and doesn't pill easily. 

Good luck.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Synthetic fleece may not qualify as Ivy trad, being as it hadn't been invented back then, but if you think in terms of sheepskin fleece then you are bang along side Rocky Mountain Trad, a noble complement to West Coast Surfer Dude Trad. And being a Left Coaster, I vote Patagonia.


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

How can one possibly have trad opinions on fleece? Wouldn't the opinion be "no"?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

firedancer said:


> For my money it doesn't get better than a Patagonia retro x fleece vest.
> 
> I've handled Arcteryx products but never used them. They seem very sound.
> 
> ...


Another vote for Patagonia. Although not trad in the strictest sense, there's plenty of history and feel-good stewardship behind the still-privately-owned company. Their fleece is good quality, as well. I would recommend either a Synchilla fleece vest for the simplest solution or a Retro-X vest if you like a slightly more technical look. If you don't mind older (and, usually, made in USA) Patagonia gear, PM member sbdivemaster with your size and what you're looking for. He has access to a lot of Patagonia gear for cheap.



Bjorn said:


> How can one possibly have trad opinions on fleece? Wouldn't the opinion be "no"?


In the strictest sense, you are correct. But, in practice, not so much. Plenty of trad staple items are blended wth synthetics: Wigwam 625s, the original LLB Norwegian Sweater, poplin suits from O' Connells, Woolrich 60/40 parkas, nylon watchbands and a whole bunch of 100% polyester emblematics and repp ties from legit trad shops. I'm pretty sure the thread in even the most sacred pair of trad shells is synthetic as well. Although others might disagree, I've come to accept that certain synthetic items that have passed the test of durability and timelessness can and sometimes do edge their way into the trad canon.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Patagucci.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Trip English said:


> Patagucci.


It's pronounced "Fratagonia."


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## leisureclass (Jan 31, 2011)

What's the most trad Fleece? A Norwegian Sweater


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

To the OP: obviously the opinions on whether fleece is trad or not are divided, so you might have to give a bit more detail to get some specific responses. What are the features you need that made you chose a fleece vest? Is a zipper important? Weight? Laundering at home? Will it be near an open flame? Is it a technical garment for hard use or is it for casual layering? Depending on your needs, a wool vest might suit your needs, be more versatile with the rest of your wardrobe and appease the forum :tongue2:.


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## Semper Jeep (Oct 11, 2011)

leisureclass said:


> What's the most trad Fleece? A Norwegian Sweater


I thought the trad version of fleece would be _Golden Fleece_® :icon_jokercolor:

Personally, I have a Patagonia and an Arc'teryx. Both are great for what they are - the Arc'teryx is a vest, the Patagonia is a quarter zip sweater type. The Patagonia however is about 1,000 times more comfortable and therefore gets worn much more frequently.

Honestly though, my LL Bean Norweigan sweater gets worn more than the Arc'teryx and Patagonia combined in the fall and winter.


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

I have a lot of fleece - Patagonia, etc., purchased over the years. Personally, I think you are paying for the label with the higher-end brands (although Patagonia has some unique offerings like the Retro-X). I really like my LL Bean Wind Challenger fleece vest, and wear it just about every day this time of year. When it gets colder, I layer it under a Barbour.www.llbean.com/llb/shop/56536?feat=504715-GN2&page=wind-challenger-fleece-vest


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## my19 (Nov 11, 2009)

I do have a fleece vest and a couple of quarter-zip fleece tops that perform admirably in wet, blustery weather beneath a North Face shell in the Texas winter. But in cool, pleasant weather, I prefer wool. As hardline 42 says, your choices depend on your intended use and your location. And remember, fleece is a lifetime purchase -- it's almost impossible to wear one out. Cheap and basic or expensive and techno-cool, it's downright difficult to find even a hint of wear after years of use. I mean, you can't really justify going out and replacing the old one.

For some reason, that annoys me.


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## David J. Cooper (Apr 26, 2010)

I always thought that part of being Trad is being active in sports like yacht racing, skiing and hiking. If so that retro-x cardigan would fit my active west coast version of Trad.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

I own 2 Patagonia fleece vests, a retro-x and a synchilla, and highly recommend either of them. As you might know, the retro-x contains a windproof layer sandwiched between the inner and outer parts of the vest, which does an excellent job of keeping the wind out. The ability to block wind allows it to serve as a stand-alone outer layer if need be. However, that feature makes it quite warm indoors.

The synchilla is a thinner, single layer vest and is my go-to if I know I'll either be indoors more than out or if layering with other jackets. 

You can't lose either way.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

Check out the North Face Gordon Lyons line...not sure if there is currently a vest, but the fabric has many of the qualities of fleece without the pilling and with a more refined look.


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## mjo_1 (Oct 2, 2007)

^Good call - I've seen that line in the store and it really does look nice without screaming "hey, i'm wearing fleece!"

I think the Patagonia equivalent is the "better sweater," but I'm not sure if they make a vest out of it either.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

smmrfld said:


> Check out the North Face Gordon Lyons line...not sure if there is currently a vest, but the fabric has many of the qualities of fleece without the pilling and with a more refined look.


Looks like a rip off of the patagonia better sweater


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

^^ you beat me to it MoJo. And yes. The pat better sweater vest is $99


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

godan said:


> In this area, fleece is often seen in town and in the mountains. You are correct that Arc'teryx is higher (or highest) end. I wore four of their garments at different times during ten seasons as a volunteer federal ski ranger. However, both Patagonia and North Face are also worn by serious people. Consider what design features you want. Is a two-way zipper important? Will you be in the snow, where almost anything dropped is lost? If so, the number, location, size and closures of pockets are important. Do you want or need a storm collar? How noticeable do you want the color to be? I don't know about Columbia, but I think you would do well with any of the three brands mentioned.


Arc'teryx was the best. However, it is no longer made in British Columbia and currently made in China. (I own several of their jackets that were made in Canada.) North Face worn by "serious" people!? :icon_pale: I have a friend that managed an REI store: he stated that it was commonly referred to as North *Farce* by REI employees!

Patagonia is not bad for the price.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Trip English said:


> Patagucci.


Said REI friend/manager also referred to it as "Patagucci". :icon_smile:


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## rwaldron (Jun 22, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> To the OP: obviously the opinions on whether fleece is trad or not are divided, so you might have to give a bit more detail to get some specific responses. What are the features you need that made you chose a fleece vest? Is a zipper important? Weight? Laundering at home? Will it be near an open flame? Is it a technical garment for hard use or is it for casual layering? Depending on your needs, a wool vest might suit your needs, be more versatile with the rest of your wardrobe and appease the forum :tongue2:.


It'll be for hiking and attending Mardi Gras Parades. Both are activities where I'll be out in the cold, but active and will need my arms to be as mobile as possible. Either situation can be prone to changes in temperature as well. Other things to note are that the parades can be a bit messy especially if has rained recently (or when someone acidently bumps into you and you dump you beer down the front of your clothes) and that I'm a big fat guy, thus I need something that comes in a size that will accomodate my girth.

Edit: Also probably some tailgating as well (same criteria as above).



Semper Jeep said:


> I thought the trad version of fleece would be _Golden Fleece_® :icon_jokercolor:


I felt like I was baiting someone for that when I first composed this.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

There's streetwear (old school) and there's modern technical gear. Patagonia's Retro-X and Synchilla (Snap-T, etc.) products would be the former and the much slimmer R series the latter. I think Arc'teryx only offers products in the latter segment.

I don't think the more technical gear looks good when worn with street clothes.


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

firedancer said:


> Come to think of it, I also have the marmot vest with Gore windstopper. It's also wind proof and not as thick as the Patagonian. Which I like. Problem is I have _Goldens and they stick to the Marmot like velcro_. No so with the Retro X.


I feel your pain. I carry half my dog with me wherever I go when wearing windstopper.

I will second the Arcteryx comment; those fleeces with the sprayed waterproofing are very functional and collect far less lint, dog hair and unmentionables. But I still prefer a nice sweater.


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

Orvis might be worth a look.


On the other hand I have some Patagonia fleece thats more than 30 years old.


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## Dieu et les Dames (Jul 18, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> It's pronounced "Fratagonia."


I threw up a little in the back of my throat when I read this.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Patagonia used to advertise a philosophy of multi-purpose garments as suitable for town wear as wilderness adventure -- very trad. But now they're one of the worst offenders in having a specialized garment for every activity. Better business, I guess.Anyway, by now fleece should be as established as Norwegian sweaters or tweed.Patagonia's classic Snap-T and newer Better Sweater are great for all around wear, but so are a jillion other brands'.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

I'm too tired to read all 27 replies but it occurs to me that there can't be very much that's TRAD about apparel made from recycled plastic bottles. Just my $0.02.


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## fiddler (Apr 19, 2010)

Brio1 said:


> Arc'teryx was the best. However, it is no longer made in British Columbia and currently made in China. (I own several of their jackets that were made in Canada.) North Face worn by "serious" people!? :icon_pale: I have a friend that managed an REI store: he stated that it was commonly referred to as North *Farce* by REI employees!Patagonia is not bad for the price.


There's a lot of companies that used to make great expedition gear in very limited quantities, who is now making mediocre gear for "everyone". There seems to be no limit to the quality an everyday man needs, even for the lightest pursuits. Catalogs expand, quality takes a nosedive. It's probably a good business model, but not the best way too provide quality gear. 
You can see a lot of these companies puts more effort into making a flattering cut, rather than a functional one. Who needs a tight fitting shell jacket that ends above the waist?


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Brooksfan said:


> I'm too tired to read all 27 replies but it occurs to me that there can't be very much that's TRAD about apparel made from recycled plastic bottles. Just my $0.02.


Hear, hear. I prefer my fleece made from virgin plastic bottles, thank you very much.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

blairrob said:


> I feel your pain. I carry half my dog with me ...


which half?


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## blairrob (Oct 30, 2010)

P Hudson said:


> which half?


That would be the outer half. The inner half plus head remains near the kibble bag awaiting my return.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Completely OT, but the best thing Fratagucci ever made were the quilted polypropylene quarter-zip pullovers (they made pants too). Find one of those and you will have transcended above the fray...

These days my closet contains a collection of the LLB version of the Snap-T; at $5/pop thrifted over the last year or two, I couldn't go wrong. I recently had to retire a LE zip version due to elbow blowout.


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

^ trying to picture these and cant. When I think of Polypropylene I think 80's GI long underwear.


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## AlfaNovember (Jun 27, 2011)

From the perspective of east-coast ivy style of 20-25 years ago, the patagonia synchilla vest in the tan color is trad as it comes.

But in the end, fleece is still plastic. How about a sheep-based solution? Ibex features Aussie merino, made into loden by Austrians, and sewn in America:

https://shop.ibex.com/Apparel/Mens-Live/M-Arlberg-Vest


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

I consider the Synchilla Snap T a classic and a "must-have" for the young tradsters. I have 2 and am currently looking at a third or maybe even foruth (one of the winter patterns). I also own a Patagonia Torrent Shell as my primary casual rain coat.



Dieu et les Dames said:


> I threw up a little in the back of my throat when I read this.


How about Patagucci?


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## Dieu et les Dames (Jul 18, 2012)

Almost as bad!



inq89 said:


> How about Patagucci?


Quality and customer service are 2/3 of what I need to support a brand. Style (which encompasses composition material) is subjective. 
Patagonia is trad in my book :aportnoy:


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

hardline_42 said:


> Hear, hear. I prefer my fleece made from virgin plastic bottles, thank you very much.


I want mine made of recycled _glass_ bottles.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Brooksfan said:


> I'm too tired to read all 27 replies but it occurs to me that there can't be very much that's TRAD about apparel made from recycled plastic bottles. Just my $0.02.


Betcha it'll be around longer than tweed!


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

*Quilted Polypropylene*

Here's what the quilted polypro pullovers look like:










It barely fits; when I lose another 10lbs, it should be about right.

Keep in mind that these were made to be a heavy base layer under other garments - this is the kind of stuff worn as long underwear when climbing places like K2 or Everest, so it's supposed to be somewhat form fitting. A different purpose than the Snap-T's. It's basically a poly batting sandwiched between two layers of polypropylene. Very high moisture wicking.

PS: Take a look at the right forearm - don't get close to fire! lol


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah, I saw you got a little melted. 

I must say, I've been a patagonia fan since I was a young scout and have never seen those. 

Thanks for the history lesson.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

I got that in the early 80's, and I think they only made them for 2 or 3 years. I'm going right by Patagonia HQ tomorrow, so I think I am going to stop in with that pullover and ask for some more info. I'm wondering if anyone in there will know what it is - perhaps they'll have to call out Yvon for a history lesson... :icon_jokercolor:


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

Well with the ironclad guarantee I would ask them to repair it.


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## Uncle Bill (May 4, 2010)

inq89 said:


> I consider the Synchilla Snap T a classic and a "must-have" for the young tradsters. I have 2 and am currently looking at a third or maybe even foruth (one of the winter patterns). I also own a Patagonia Torrent Shell as my primary casual rain coat.
> 
> How about Patagucci?


As for fleece, I ski, hike and run outdoors in all sorts of weather, I see the fabric for what it is, a practical layer. I love my Norwegian sweater but I'll be honest, its great for casual wear to the local pub but spending say 6-8 active hours outside, I'll take fleece from either Mountain Equipment Co-Op (Canada's REI) or Patagonia any day of the week.

How do you like your Torrent shell? I have been thinking of getting one especially for travel.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

firedancer said:


> Well with the ironclad guarantee I would ask them to repair it.


So, went by HQ yesterday for more info about the quilted polypro. Here's the report: They were extremely hesitant to make any kind of repair (not that I really wanted them to), going so far as to strongly recommend that I take it to a tailor for a better match in fabric and pattern. (I've had issues in the past with them and their guarantee - which isn't as ironclad as they make it out to be.)

As far as information on the pullover, no one I talked to had ever seen one; as most of them weren't even born yet when I bought mine. They did manage to find it in the 1985 catalog (which was the earliest year catalog they could find in their library), but they would not make a photocopy of the page in the catalog for me - saying I had to get permission from Corporate. :icon_scratch:

Anyway, I then stopped by the outlet to check on prices for some of our forumites. I had always thought that the Patagonia stuff wasn't on the website and had to be purchased in-store. Well, one of the sales folks let me in on the secret: They do have the goods available for purchase on the site, but you have to know the exact URL to get there, as there are no links anywhere on the site to access the Patagonia section.

Now, you are all privy to the secret! :teacha: There's a sale going on right now for 20% off prices listed on the site, until 10/31/2012. Coupon code: FALLHOOKUP2012

Have at it, folks!

PS: I will put the secret info in a post on the Deals and Steals! forum, and when future sales happen I will update with the new coupon codes.


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## inq89 (Dec 3, 2008)

^Awesome link!



Uncle Bill said:


> How do you like your Torrent shell? I have been thinking of getting one especially for travel.


I like mine and use it a lot. Great for casual and sport use. Wear it almost all the time when it rains, unless the occasion calls for a more dressier alternative. On the topic, I got the Bali Blue...for whatever reason, I like the louder colors as opposed to the boring plain greys and blacks. It's raining, might as well add some color to a dreary day!


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

growing up i always wore patagonia or north face... an outdoorsy friend of mine turned me onto mountain hardware... they actually partnered with gore-tex to develop the windstopper fleece... can't say enough great things about them... great quality & construction... price point slightly higher than the above mentioned, but in my experience, well worth it...


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

I became very fond of a company called Outdoor Research. They are known mostly for their hats but I've had good luck with all of their gear.
https://www.outdoorresearch.com/en/or-gear.html?showAll=yes


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## firedancer (Jan 11, 2011)

^OR makes good stuff. If I recall correctly I think they were one of the early adapters of the behemoth that is Gore tex


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