# Are black pants bad?



## josepidal (Jul 24, 2005)

Out of curiosity. Do you especially frown on black pants? (I don't mean the trousers of black suits.)


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Yes. The only color of pants that I might like even less is navy blue. Navy pants look terrible unless they are worn by a Frenchman in France, in which case, oddly, they look just fine.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I personally love black pants, they look great with black sweaters or shirts, gray, white..what could be better. Very sharp look, but you have to be comfortable with it yourself. I have always had at least one pair of black pants in my winter and summer wardrobe.

guit


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## SartoNYC (Feb 22, 2005)

Not if you're an undertaker.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> I personally love black pants, they look great with black sweaters or shirts, gray, white..what could be better. Very sharp look, but you have to be comfortable with it yourself. I have always had at least one pair of black pants in my winter and summer wardrobe.
> 
> guit


Same here. I have a couple pairs of black pants in different styles and fabrics... 100% wool, pleated and cuffed; flat front poplin twills uncuffed; pleated twill uncuffed...

They look great with a white shirt of any style; they also look great with other colors of shirts and sweaters.

One combination I particularly like (and I'm sure I'll get trashed for it) is a white shirt, black pants and cordovan belt and shoes.


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Black and Tan is smashing.

*** Elegance - a refined quality of gracefulness and good taste *** To achieve a dashing with panache persona


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by josepidal_
> 
> (I don't mean the trousers of black suits.)


Well now, that raises a whole different question, doesn't it?


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## Gus (Oct 8, 2005)

Well, if you consider what kind of people it is that favour black, except undertakers, you'll understand why many here don't look favourably on black pants, or suits for that matter,


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

and just what type if person here is it that favors black pants, Gus.

guit


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

I keep black pants to wear with my grandfather's gray jacket. Natty.


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## GreyFlannelMan (Jun 16, 2004)

Black pants is for waiter!


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Gus_
> 
> Well, if you consider what kind of people it is that favour black, except undertakers, you'll understand why many here don't look favourably on black pants, or suits for that matter,


I tend to favor black.

This could be the last day of the rest of your life


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Wow, can't believe the prejudice against black pants...they are classy, very sharp when done right.......maybe you guys just don't know how to wear them, we could give you some lessons if needed[]

guit


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Not intrinsically.

"What I donâ€™t like about you, Sefton, is, you come to the Coll. with your stick-up collars anâ€™ patent-leather boots, anâ€™ you think you can teach us something about bullying." Stalky & Co.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

I love to wear black pants and currently own five pairs of which my favorite are flared leg gucci's that I wear very often. I often like to dress solely in black and white so i get plenty of wear out of all the pairs that I own.

Who could not like black pants?????????

MrR

"Give me the luxuries in life and I'll gladly go without the necessities"


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

Who was it who said "there is no such thing as a bad color for pants, just bad outfits"? Was it you Andy, or Father Flanagan?


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## prato (Jan 5, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by josepidal_
> 
> Out of curiosity. Do you especially frown on black pants? (I don't mean the trousers of black suits.)


The main problem I see with black pants (odd trousers) is that it's a fashion forward look (or was last I knew). It suggests that you are following the trends. There are plenty of better options for the daytime.

I keep some around for when I need to show up at a nightclub, as it is very easy to just blend in with black pants/blue shirt/black bluchers (I have no desire to stand out in these rare situations). If you really want to know how to look good in these situations, study Film Noir Buff.


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## josepidal (Jul 24, 2005)

Never thought black pants were fashion forward, interesting. For some reason the lone pair of Polo pants I have just look sharper. I thought they were just the classic formal odd trouser. I asked because I'm starting work in a law firm in Manila, where it's so hot that the young man's office wear is a long-sleeved shirt and tie with no jacket.

Seriously, what shades of brown can go with black? Just the darkest browns? What about navy pants?


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## Gus (Oct 8, 2005)

I personally don't object at all to black for punk rockers, country singers (think Johnny Cash!) and some other areas of casual or even rebel clothing. The problem is when people try to dress up in black. I don't know how it's like where you live, but in Sweden, many new and wannabe members of the middle class, who are of course the most eager to show their status, think that black suits, often with dark, shiny shirts (but white is bad enough), is the epitome of class. It isn't.


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## GBR (Aug 10, 2005)

Absolutely not. I have several black pairs and wear them out of choice regularly.

A black shirt goes well with them as well.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

I confess to wearing black cords a lot (with chunky sweaters and substantial shoes). Where I live black cords have a rural connotation, rather like green moleskins in the UK.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Gus,

Maybe the folks you see in black just don't know how to do it right. Black pants are no different than any other color, they need to be coordinated properly. Black on black, black on white, black on gray, all wonderful combinations...a black suit is not what was asked about, just black trousers. I am quite surprised by the feelings regarding black pants, maybe I am just out of tune...I am not a rock star or a wanna be anything, so I find this all very interesting. I have had a pair of black pants in my wardrobe for the past 25 years or so, usually winter weight, but not also summer wool. I wear for business, no jacket, with merino sweaters, or shirt and tie......These are not styled differently than any others I wear, pleated and tailored the same. Sorry but I don't get it, and tha waiter remark in this thread was about the epitomy of snobbery.



> quote:_Originally posted by Gus_
> 
> I personally don't object at all to black for punk rockers, country singers (think Johnny Cash!) and some other areas of casual or even rebel clothing. The problem is when people try to dress up in black. I don't know how it's like where you live, but in Sweden, many new and wannabe members of the middle class, who are of course the most eager to show their status, think that black suits, often with dark, shiny shirts (but white is bad enough), is the epitome of class. It isn't.


guit


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

Don't like them. I don't think black suits my general skin and hair tone well. I know with pants it's not up agianst my visible skin, but the color is just so heavy that it's hard to get away from when you're wearing it. It also requires a whole seperate group of shoes, I don't do black shoes. There are very few pant colors I can't do with brown and I avoid them for that reason. Since I own only one suit, and that suit does not require black, I can live in a world of only brown shoes. Buying only one pair of black pants would ruin that beautiful simplicity.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford. 

John Adams


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## JohnnyVegas (Nov 17, 2005)

I own a few pairs of black pants, in cotton and wool. I enjoy putting them in the mix once a week, and I think they look great with a few different shirts. If you like them and you think they look good then buy some and wear them. You'll be glad you did.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by GreyFlannelMan_
> 
> Black pants is for waiter!


... or croupier, nightclub bouncer or other security heavy, barman - not that there's anything wrong with being any of these. But it looks like you've just come off duty and haven't bothered to change your trousers - which is not very professional.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh goodness.....

guit


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

I think black pants are fine if one puts them together with a sportcoat that is obviously not formal. It gives some contrast to the outfit and prevents the normal formal connotations of a black article of clothing. For example, I have just received this jacket and it looks great with black pants. I don't think the outfit looks at all fashion forward or formal. 



I would not wear black pants without a jacket except for clubbing and only then with a very colorful shirt (with a white shirt people may be waving you down to give you their drink orders). 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

I don't have any anymore, with the exception of some uniform trousers (which are technically Navy blue). These seem too common for folks who are really interested in clothing (with the exception of formal wear of course). I think this goes with the black suit argument. Nothing technically wrong with them, just not for me and forces me to jump to conclusions about the wearer's state of mind (just like square toed shoes).


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by maxnharry_
> 
> I don't have any anymore, with the exception of some uniform trousers (which are technically Navy blue).* These seem too common for folks who are really interested in clothing* (with the exception of formal wear of course). I think this goes with the black suit argument. Nothing technically wrong with them, just not for me and forces me to jump to conclusions about the wearer's state of mind (*just like square toed shoes*).


By this logic, one should eschew white shirts as well. Certainly, there is nothing more common or requiring less thought.

P.S. Let me make it clear that though I do occasionally wear black pants they are *never* coupled with Kenneth Coles or Stacy Adams footwear.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


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## AzChilicat (Dec 18, 2005)

From reading this thread I must now consider myself a walking fashion faux pas. Walking in one of my several pairs of MTM black slacks of various fabrics and weights that is. I am fairly young, the COO of a hospital, and prefer dark slacks for many specific interactions due to these factors. My shirts and ties are a vivid palet, but I prefer to add a note of somberness to my dress quite often through black slacks. Being in a very hot area, jackets are often not an option, so I also indeed wear black slacks sans jacket. As I age or if I leave healthcare, I will no longer feel this way and undoubtedly wear less black. 

Also, just for Rich: I did indeed bounce during my undergrad in a rather rough area of a rather rough city. I never wore black slacks, MTM or otherwise.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

The only black casual trousers are a pair of black chinos. They are quite easily the least worn casual pair I have. That's not because of any particular prejudice against it though - it's just I tend to find other combinations that seem more interesting/fun when thinking about what to wear in the morning.

On the other hand, I do own a black "banker's stripe" suit that gets a fair amount of wear. It does result in certain misperceptions though - I remember one time needing to get some documents notarized and so just popped in to a local firm rather than going to my usual team in London. One of the first questions the lawyer asked me was which legal firm I worked for! On replying that I wasn't a solicitor he apologised and said the black, striped suit was usually a giveaway!


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by maxnharry_
> 
> I don't have any anymore, with the exception of some uniform trousers (which are technically Navy blue). These seem too common for folks who are really interested in clothing (with the exception of formal wear of course). I think this goes with the black suit argument. Nothing technically wrong with them, just not for me and forces me to jump to conclusions about the wearer's state of mind (just like square toed shoes).


I certainly did not mean offense, just expressing an opinion and prehaps a little too emphatic. They're not as bad as square toed shoes. Few things are.


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## the diplomat (Dec 18, 2005)

I only wear black trousers as a part of a suit or with a dinner jacket (of course also with a tailcoat, but I don't have one)

I don't like black chinos, jeans or normal trousers...


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> Navy pants look terrible unless they are worn by a Frenchman in France, in which case, oddly, they look just fine.


Interesting observation.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Some of you guys have the oddest "rules"...who can make a statement such as "navy pants look terrible" when you do not know what they are being worn with.....

I understand that most here are more trad than fashion forward......but trad doeen't have to be as boring as I imagine some of you make it...

MrR



"Give me the luxuries in life and I'll gladly go without the necessities"


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

black pants. the very thing for bussing tables.

Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Case in point....

A Tailor, A question for you......I have a black and white houndstooth SB sportcoat that I often wear with black pants and a black turtleneck....I also wear it with black pants, a white shirt and a Red hermes tie.....Assuming that I was to follow your advice and not wear black pants at all.....what would you suggest I wear with this sportcoat???????



MrR

"Give me the luxuries in life and I'll gladly go without the necessities"


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I don't think black pants are bad at all.It goes well with just about every dress shirt.


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## Shriver (Apr 23, 2005)

I this they look especially awful with french blue shirts, my two cents.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

I prefer them to be midnight-blue in artificial light.


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## stuman (Oct 6, 2005)

Black pants with a tan or grey camelhair sport jacket?
Looks sharp.


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## gregp (Aug 11, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MrRogers_
> 
> Case in point....
> 
> ...


Be interested to see opinions on this. I assume the answer will be dark charcoal pants? In any case, sounds like a smart combo to me.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I guess it is the trad response that has thrown me as I am anything but trad in my attire, or my hair style, or just about anyting else about the way I go out in the world. I wear what I feel looks good on me, what I like, sometimes it is very conservative, sometimes from an Italian house like Canali, sometimes I don't even know how it was influenced...Glad I do this, it makes life and dress interesting.

guit


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

I own about as many pairs of black dress pants as all other colors combined, but then again I also like square-toed shoes and black suits and dislike four-in-hand knots and pleated pants. []


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## Boris (Aug 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MrRogers_
> 
> Case in point....
> 
> ...


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Don't sweat it, Albert was pretty bright when he said this:

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." Albert Einstein


*** Elegance - a refined quality of gracefulness and good taste *** To achieve a dashing with panache persona


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by stuman_
> 
> Black pants with a tan or grey camelhair sport jacket?
> Looks sharp.


---- I couldn't agree more.

*** Elegance - a refined quality of gracefulness and good taste *** To achieve a dashing with panache persona


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

There is nothing morally wrong with wearing black pants.

That being said, I can't think of a single positive association with black pants or any reason to wear them. They are, without fail, the choice of young, uneducated men who think they are "dressing up". They are the stock in trade of stores like "Chess King". 

I'm sure it's possible to create a wonderful pair of bespoke black pants. I'm also sure that John Lobb could create a wonderful pair of rainbow-colored alligator square-toes, but I am not going to wear either one. But for the record, I am neither a medical executive, professional tough guy, or combination of the above.

----------------------


"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

You guys crack me up...you are either of the UPPER CRUST, wanna be UPPER CRUST or just really trying way too hard. But keep it up, I am actually starting to have a good time. But I better be careful next time I wear black pants, someone may think I am a waiter, or a doorman, or a bouncer, or a plumber, or a something that I am sure I would not want to be associated with.

I wonder how many of you have had to work for a living, and how many are trying to act as though you don't have too. I am probably sentencing myself to death on this site but I just cannot believe the snobbery and self importance displayed here.

guit


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:I wonder how many of you have had to work for a living, and how many are trying to act as though you don't have too.


I used to clean the dumpster at Rax in the mornings. To ensure the grease and filth didn't upset the customers while I was working the drive-through in the afternoon, they had me wear black pants.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> I am probably sentencing myself to death on this site but I just cannot believe the snobbery and self importance displayed here.


Don't take it too personally, guitone. I lurked here for several months before posting and I realized during that time that there is simply a segment of the AAAC membership for whom men's clothing from 1930 to 1960 is some sort of Platonic ideal by which all other dress must be measured.


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

> _Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> There is nothing morally wrong with wearing black pants.
> 
> ...


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:------ Maybe you should consult Brioni, Borrelli and Kiton and tell me that those black pants they make are so "chess king"


With all due respect, Brioni, Borrelli, and Kiton have made all sorts of tasteless crap in the past and they will no doubt continue to do so in the future, the same way the finest tailor on the Row will gladly accept your check for a "Bentley Farnsworth"-style garment.

It is possible to have a finely made item that is in terrible taste. A friend of mine used to tool around in a new pink Mercedes-Benz W140 S500. It was a wonderfully made car but it was a five-meter-long pink-and-chrome sedan.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Shriver_
> 
> I this they look especially awful with french blue shirts, my two cents.


Yuck! The old American Jackass look before the striped shirt and jeans took over.

That said, I have pair of black wool trousers, a pair of black cotton chinos and a pair of black pinwhale cords. I have worn the black wool trousers with a grey sportcoat a few times but the truth is, I haven't gotten much use of them or the black chinos. There is nothing inherently wrong with them but I simply prefer to wear something with more color and less boring. There always seems to be a better choice than black. I do like to wear the black cords on weekends in the winter though. They are much more casual and cut like jeans so I don't consider them like black pants.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> They are, without fail, the choice of young, uneducated men who think they are "dressing up". They are the stock in trade of stores like "Chess King".
> 
> ...


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## JohnnyVegas (Nov 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> There is nothing morally wrong with wearing black pants.
> 
> That being said, I can't think of a single positive association with black pants or any reason to wear them. They are, without fail, the choice of young, uneducated men who think they are "dressing up". They are the stock in trade of stores like "Chess King".


Kind of like the association with khaki-colored pants and sloppily dressed "professionals?" (think back to that article on engineers - I've never seen a group of people take to khakis like them)

So we've eliminated black (too low class), blue (too French), and khaki/brown (too Engineerish). That leaves us with... shades of grey? Oooooooo, how exciting! Why don't we all just wear blue shirts and grey pants all day, with horsies on our ties! [}]

(I'll stick to my black and blue and khaki pants on occasion, thank you)


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2005)

am i the only one getting sick of this kid cross posting half a dozen threads a day?


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> You guys crack me up...you are either of the UPPER CRUST, wanna be UPPER CRUST or just really trying way too hard. But keep it up, I am actually starting to have a good time. But I better be careful next time I wear black pants, someone may think I am a waiter, or a doorman, or a bouncer, or a plumber, or a something that I am sure I would not want to be associated with.
> 
> ...


Would you feel weird if you got on the elevator and you were dressed exaclty the same as the CEO standing in front of you? Akward ride for most of us I'd assume. Then would you feel weird if you were dressed like the catering staff at a company event? It's not snobbishness, it's the akward feeling when you become associated with a group through dress when you are in fact not part of that group. I used to have a bright orange tee shirt that I got as part of a safety campaign from the company I used to work for. I accidentally wore it twice to Home Depot. After that whenever I pulled it out of the drawer I asked myself if I was going to HD that day or not. Didn't have anything to do with thinking I was better than the HD workers, it did have something to do with being asked if I knew where the hinges were. 
Look around next time you're out, see how many men have to wear black pants as part of their uniform at work. Then look and see how many people wear them because they like them. I draw my conclusions about black pants from what I see in the world around me, not by any notions I may have about 'the rules'.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford.

John Adams


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## Snuppi (May 25, 2005)

What is actually wrong with wearing black in general?

It seems that a lot of people mean that for occasions other than formal events (as a dinner jacket or tailcoat) or funerals (as a part of a black suit)? Is itanything other than black being associated with people from the "lower classes" trying to dress up or certain categories of workers (waiters etc.)?

As far as I have understood, black was the most important color in gentleman's dress through the 19th century and until the 1920's. After that, grey and navy dominated; while black continued to be used for evening wear. Black always seems to have been an important color in fashion.

I really cannot see why it is too "somber" a look to go to work wearing black wool pants, a grey sweater and a white shirt?
In my opionion, going out for dinner to a posh restaurant wearing a black suit, a nice tie (or even a bow tie) and a white shirt is a really sharp look. You feel that you are dressed more festively than if you were dressed in one of your usual everyday suits, yet you might feel that you were overdressed if wearing a dinner jacket.

In addition, I personally feel that black completes my natural look in a great way. My skin color is rather bright, while I have almost black hair. Thus, I often find myself on the street several times a week wearing the same outerwear: a black overcoat, black fedora, burgundy cashmere scarf, black (or grey) pants and black shoes.
There is no item in my wardrobe that I wear more frequently than my black pants. They can be used with almost any of the shirts I own, and many of the ties, too.

I like this look - and I love to see other people wearing a nice suit with an appropriate shirt and tie, regardless of the suit is grey, navy or blue.
People may disagree; but there are also people that mean, that I am far too young and should wait 40 years before I wear fedoras and bow ties.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> You guys crack me up...you are either of the UPPER CRUST, wanna be UPPER CRUST or just really trying way too hard. But keep it up, I am actually starting to have a good time. But I better be careful next time I wear black pants, someone may think I am a waiter, or a doorman, or a bouncer, or a plumber, or a something that I am sure I would not want to be associated with.
> 
> ...


I don't think you're sentencing yourself to death. This is a place to express opinions, which we all have done.

If you like black pants, wear them. Someone asked about black pants and people have offered opinions. My earlier point was that I found boring and they also hold memories of when I had to wear them as a restaurant server as well as a car valet.

This argument is very similar to the ongoing one about black suits. Some like them, some books will also tell you that they convey power. Others will tell you that there are negative connotations associated with them.

The best part about all of this is that you get to decide what your personal style is and if you want to wear black pants.


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Snuppi_
> 
> What is actually wrong with wearing black in general?
> 
> ...


to save certain people retyping what they have already been through once today, have a look at the sister thread on SF....covers off the history and the reasons for antiblack...

https://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=29708


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by familyman_
> 
> Look around next time you're out, see how many men have to wear black pants as part of their uniform at work. Then look and see how many people wear them because they like them. I draw my conclusions about black pants from what I see in the world around me, not by any notions I may have about 'the rules'.


Spot on, familyman. The point is that black trousers are usually part of a uniform of some kind. Being neutral, they play down the individual identity of the wearer and focus on his function, which they do very well. Formal wear is a special case, though even here black has a similar function - the convention is that the men shall look the same and the women shall all look different. The black-and-white man acts as a backdrop for his dazzlingly colourful lady. Also, black formal attire is made of rich materials and is finely finished to look particularly good in artificial light.

Another problem with black trousers is the sharp contrast they make with everything else - they don't blend.

So all in all it's better to wear one of any number of dark to medium greys (and there are blue greys, brown greys, and green greys) maybe with a faint stripe or even a faint window pane check to go with your jacket, tie, shirt or sweater. Much more interesting and individual.


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Keep in mind also that not all black pants are created equal....you certainly do not look like a bussboy in a nicely tailored pair of black pants with a nice belt and shoes.......

The thing that bugs me about this thread is that there are so many things far worse than black pants that have probably never been brought to light....here are a few examples to chew on..

pleated pants 
black shoes
mock turtlenecks



MrR

"Give me the luxuries in life and I'll gladly go without the necessities"


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

This has been a very interesting thread.

Just to note - black pants (and skirts and suits)are a major female wardrobe staple, especially for work. The reason is that they are thought to be slimming and go with nearly everything. I never feel like a waiter, gangster or member of the clergy in black pants. Though I don't really like wearing a white shirt with black pants or a black skirt because I used to wear this "uniform" when I was in a school choir.

My husband has one pair of black odd trousers, which I don't think have seen the light of day since he was 24. They'll probably be going to Goodwill soon.

*"Buy the best, and you will only cry once." - Chinese proverb*


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

"Brioni, Borrelli, and Kiton" 

Am I missing something here?


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by VS_
> 
> This has been a very interesting thread.
> 
> Just to note - black pants (and skirts and suits)are a major female wardrobe staple, especially for work. The reason is that they are thought to be slimming and go with nearly everything. I never feel like a waiter, gangster or member of the clergy in black pants.


Ah, but ladies are different...


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rich_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh most definitely.

I do think black cords look fine on men, though.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by xcubbies_
> 
> "Brioni, Borrelli, and Kiton"
> 
> Am I missing something here?


It's Sophistication's mantra


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

I am sympathetic to guitone's post.
Indeed, I am today wearing black trousers (wool, pleated, cuffed and held in place by braided black leather braces) with a royal blue shirt. With the right sportcoat (blue and black miniature checks) and tie (Brooks blue and white stripe on red) the look is quite attractive if I do say so myself. Black AE Fairfaxes provide the perfect complement and no doubt help explain the frequent compliment.
Merry Christmas to all....


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

My boss is wearing black pleated slacks and a blue and white striped buttondown shirt (not the pale blue stripes, but more intense), and he looks fantastic.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

I think black has a lot (and as far as that goes- all colors) to do with your personality. At SF I was reading what Manton says about black- it is a powerful color. If it is powerful, then it usually takes another powerful color to go with it. The only exception I can think of at the moment is a personlatity that goes with it. It seems that some people there personality, or complection, zapps the power from black.

Personally Black is much better than gray. Grey is so boring and dead. Grey- how much deader can you get? At lest Black has life in it. Although, if you are going to wear weak colored shirts, then a grey coat or pants can comes in handy. But why not buy stronger colored shirts and ties? And, never forget your eye color when buying clothes. I do like contrast, other wise things get mundane, banal, stale, and etc. And those wearing black at furnerals, at least it shows that they are alive- if you are wearing gray, then perhapes the wrong person is in the coffin.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Black is considered a power color for me.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Sophistication_
> 
> Black works as:
> 
> ...


Ah, so this is why I like it so much[8D]

guit


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Well, according to Manton if you wear black other than as a tuxedo with white shirt or red, then a man looks "fem or costumey"

If find that a bit theatrical at best. Now here is a pic of a gentlemen with both totally different looks and in a black suit. And I don't think he looks fem or costumey in his black suit, on the contrary, sophisticated and smart. I think the second look is great also, and has its place for the proper occassion.

*** Elegance - a refined quality of gracefulness and good taste *** To achieve a dashing with panache persona


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

"Sophistication" -

Do you really think you are convincing anyone here with your lists of what _you_ think looks good?

If you are comfortable wearing all sorts of black clothes, more power to you... but I think you will find that you are decidedly in the minority among men who pay attention to style and clothing.

Black is inappropriate in the daytime, and it rarely looks good at night. The fact that traditional dinner jackets are black has nothing to do with you prancing around in some Jersey-mall-trash-circa-1992-outfit that makes you look like you have BIlly Idol posters at home. You cannot convince me that most of the decidedly regrettable outfits you have discussed so far in this thread would _ever_ pass muster among even vaguely civilized human beings. You've been responsible for half the post traffic on this thread.

*Just let it go.*

I never cease to be amazed at the people who post here trying to whip up support for their fashion perversions. It always goes something like this:

[)] HELLO EVERYONE WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WEARING BIRKENSTOCKS WITH A THONG TO MEET THE QUEEN.

 I wouldn't if I were you.
[] Same here.
[:0] Are you sure you're on the right forum?

[)] WTF IS THE MATTER WITH U PEOPLE U THINK U ARE ELEET EST MY UNCLE DRESSES LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME AND HE OWNS HIS OWN STREET THEATER COMPANY SO THERE.

[] Okay then.
 If you must.
[:0] Thanks for visiting.

[)] WAIT I M NOT DONE YET UNTIL I CONVINCE YOU ALL TO DRESS JUST LIKE ME. HERE'S A LINK FROM A WEBSITE I WROTE ABOUT HOW GREAT THONGS R

As has been mentioned before, nobody on this forum can stop you from wearing all sorts of hideous black outfits. And your eternal soul is not endangered by doing so. But expecting people to throw away decades of experience and follow your Cult Of The Black Trou* is too much.

* obscure CDC joke, ha ha.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## Vecsus (Aug 27, 2005)

Today I wore black pants with a grey shirt and grey camelhair sportcoat. While standing alongside the curb outside my office waiting for a friend to cross the street, someone handed me their car keys and told me not to scratch it. We don't even have valet parking!

Seriously though, I wear black pants often. Not as often as I used to but about once per week, maybe a little less. Sometimes it's fun to dress like Travolta in Pulp Fiction. Show up at a serious meeting wearing black and white and people will wonder what secret government agency you work for.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> "Sophistication" -
> 
> ...


LOL!!!!


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

> _Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> "Sophistication" -
> 
> ...


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

Soph, learn to use the quote function correctly. Here's an example:



> quote:_Originally posted by Sophistication_
> Eternal soul, over use of emoticons, poor grammar and sentence structure, over exaggeration, *extremenish*....Sounds like delusional, fanatical teen angst. LOL!


For the record, the above sentence, where the writer complains about "poor grammar and sentence structure" while creating entirely new and useless words (highlighted with bold) and ending with the always-grammatical-and-structural "LOL!", is known as a _self-deconstructive statement._



> quote:*Tommorow* is Classic Charcoal Borrelli. And a white shirt with Borrelli tie. Me and my cult of blackness [email protected]


Tell the truth. You're not a single individual, you're a group of chimps in the local zoo pounding on a keyboard that has "Borrelli" predefined as Alt-Shift-B.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

What are the rules?

Rules are Rules! Aren't you suppose to wear a codpiece in front of the Queen? After all, who has the right to have changed the rules? Maybe you have been hood winked into believing the rules have change and codpieces are not proper clothing anymore. Get with it! The rules are rock solid! You must be wearing a youngsters fad if your not wearing a codpiece. Maybe you should be taken out to the wood shed for a whipping for not wearing proper clothing.

When black was the rule... when the king or Queen died the people were finally free- no wonder they didn't want to wear black, so it in itself became a rule with those people. 

But we don't live back then! We didn't live in the oppression when black was the rule and glade to be rid of it. We don't carry that baggge. Were not even in the same century, or two. Were not bound by an outdated rules. And some rules need to change from time to time, so to say, to clear the air. Yes! The old goats that wanted the old rules always resisted, but they didn't win did they? How long have these latest rules been around? They don't last forever, as history proves. What is around the corner nobody knows.


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## Vladimir Berkov (Apr 19, 2005)

Out of all the men I have seen who have ever worn black suits only one has look acceptable and he had a very highly developed sense of personal style such that he could pull off things most men could not. 

The men I always see wearing black usually fall into two camps:
1.) Lawyers/law students who are wearing black during the daytime as a "power" color or else simply blindly conforming to those to think it is. These people always look terrible.

2.) Young people at night who are wearing black because they think it is chic/sexy/trendy/alluring/mysterious/etc. These people usually overdo it bigtime. I remember one young man with long dark hair and pale skin who was wearing a black shirt, black suit and black shoes. Someone commented to me that they thought Dracula had entered the room! 

Wearing black when clubbing or dating is fine, but you have to realize it is not a "proper" color anymore and thus inappriopriate for business or real social occassions that don't involve 19 year-old undergrads.


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## malinda (Aug 25, 2002)

> quote:_Originally posted by Sophistication_
> 
> ---- Anyway, I am reporting you to Andy and <alinda, as you are 'trolling' and really adding nothing but attempted insults on the board now. Andy and Malinda, I apologize for any unprofessional behavior by me and will try to keep my arguments to the more mature posters and avoid this type in the future. In addition, I will try my best to not feed any more troll like behavior. Thank you again,
> S


Knock yourself out. It won't get you anywhere, though.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

FlatSix- above, I was just feeling in a jolly debative mood, so don't take it seriously.

Personally, some people look good in black, and I never believe in a rule that prevents people from looking good, or even there best. And a lot of people wear black DJ and Tails and they look fine.


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by WA_
> 
> FlatSix- above, I was just feeling in a jolly debative mood, so don't take it seriously.


Seriously? Now I have to go into my trash can and get all my codpieces out!

One thing I would like to *seriously* say is that formal black has nothing to with casual black. Suggesting that the existence of a black DJ justifies wearing shiny black suits, as some on this thread have done, is like suggesting that it is acceptable to have "tails" sewn into your sportcoats because they are part of morning apparel.

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

"shiny black suits"

One thing I learned as a small child is that no suit should be shiny. When the light touches the cloth the light is never seen again.

Shine can be removed with the ruff side of a damp cloth and a hot iron.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Wow, I certainly have learned alot about rules.....I guess I just don't follow them, or don't know them, but one thing I do know is what I like and what I feel (and I am not of the tasteless crowd) looks good on me. I take a lot of time to put my clothing together, but I guess I won't be getting the invitation to the next high society outing, oh but I will make it through the day, and I will continue to have a bounce in my step.

This was sure interesting reading was I stopped getting baited.

guit


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

FlatSix, 
Thanks for that post, I think it's good for all of us to remember that sometimes we wear things just because we like them. Not because they fit the rules, not because they look best on us, but because we like them, and that's good enough. We don't need approval for every item of clothing we wear, we just don't. 


_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford. 

John Adams


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## GreyFlannelMan (Jun 16, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by [email protected]_
> 
> am i the only one getting sick of this kid cross posting half a dozen threads a day?


No you are not....


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## gregp (Aug 11, 2005)

For the record, I do not own a single piece of black clothing.

Having said that, its clear that "the rules" have changed in this area for men (perhaps due to women's growing - and welcome - influence in business). Back to the original topic: the idea that you shouldn't wear black pants if you like them is dated and silly. A black suit is a bit strong in my opinion, but that's exactly what I stated: my opinion, based on what I like to wear. Anyone in business or law can plainly see that a black suit is now acceptable.

Wear what you want. I've found this forum to be a great repository of knowledge, but make sure you take the opinions here tongue in cheek. They are often absurd and extreme.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

I met a friend of mine last week at a presentation he gave to a bulge bracket investment bank. He is a partner at a large Chicago Law firm, and he was wearing a solid black suit. Three of the bankers were wearin black suits too. I actually mentioned it to him and he didnt see anything wrong with wearing a black suit for business. Apparetly he got the account so it didnt affect him.

I do remember at one time people feared the black suit but it is definitely back. The rule is changing, if it hasnt already changed.

My mom has a deep rooted belief that anyone with a piercing or tattoo is from the lowest rung of society. She dates herself, in the same way that people who loathe black suits date themselves back to a time when they were esaping their father's longstanding tradition of black day wear. If you wear a black suit today for business and someone holds it against you, they probably have other issues that keep them from functioning. I dont own a black solid suit for business purposes, but Im going to look into a piece of cloth I like from Lessers. The black shouldnt be shiny of course, no suit for biz purposes should be, with the possible exception of mohair which has its own crowd of misunderstanders.

____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I too sometimes judge people by the piercings or tattoos, maybe your mother and I are about the same age...but to the point, our beliefs dictate our view of the world...for some of us Black is not a color to be avoided, it is not associated with busboys or waiters or uniforms (and if it was that is ok too)...I don't wear a lot of Navy slacks, some blues I like better than others....I do wear a lot of gray, tan, olive, brown....that would make up most of my wardrobe. I just like other things as well. I just bought a pair of black and white houndstooth pants (I only did it because my dad wore a black and white houdstooth suit when he married my mon...although it may have been more black and tan)... I don't mind people not liking something and owning that, I do have a problem with putting it out as a universal, althoug I guess I can do that at times as well.....



> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> I met a friend of mine last week at a presentation he gave to a bulge bracket investment bank. He is a partner at a large Chicago Law firm, and he was wearing a solid black suit. Three of the bankers were wearin black suits too. I actually mentioned it to him and he didnt see anything wrong with wearing a black suit for business. Apparetly he got the account so it didnt affect him.
> 
> ...


guit


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I wear black pants when I feel like it. I feel they are a neutral color and go with a lot of things. I have a nice pair of dressy black pants I like to wear with a couple of my sport coats.

Everyone will dress how they want to.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

FlatSix gets my vote for post of the year.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> I too sometimes judge people by the piercings or tattoos, maybe your mother and I are about the same age...but to the point, our beliefs dictate our view of the world...for some of us Black is not a color to be avoided, it is not associated with busboys or waiters or uniforms (and if it was that is ok too)...I don't wear a lot of Navy slacks, some blues I like better than others....I do wear a lot of gray, tan, olive, brown....that would make up most of my wardrobe. I just like other things as well. I just bought a pair of black and white houndstooth pants (I only did it because my dad wore a black and white houdstooth suit when he married my mon...although it may have been more black and tan)... I don't mind people not liking something and owning that, I do have a problem with putting it out as a universal, althoug I guess I can do that at times as well.....


And its funny because my mom is quite experimental and changing with the times. I think I meant to say that some things just stick with you. I grew up in NYC in the 80s and I cant believe people who dont know each other just speak to each other on the subway. Its an unbelievable taboo to me and one that dates me.

I think also there was this rule I can remember in the late80s/early nineties, when I first started buying suits, something about black suits being wrong. Back then, black clothing was almost unheard of amongst mainstream populations. I may have not owned a single item in black. However, that has changed. I see important men, maybe not style movers but men who run wealthy this or cultural that who wear black suits. At first I didnt like it either, but Ive warmed up to them. Certainly, if someone came to me in a black suit in a supplicative role, I wouldnt make a negative judgment based on the fact that they were wearing black. I would accept it as the current standard. I do realize that black cloth can go wrong, if it isnt well made and dyed, more than charcoal.

Honestly, I think I pay more attention to basic fit, quality and coordination as a truer sign of conservatism/traditionalism than color combinations. I may just see fabrics and construction and fit too well now. However, if someone dropped by in an immaculately fitted black suit in a dry worsted, purple shirt and black tie with purple and white whatsits on the tie, I would probably react better than to someone in a cheap poly navy suit that was too large with a cheapwhite shirt and lousy rep tie. There are just so many different details that go into acceptance non acceptance that as soon as I think of one to type out, it seems to box me in.

All I know, is that there seems to be a body of people who dont like black suits, some because of older associations, some because they are looking to sound knowledgeable and find that criticizing the black (or brown) suit is an easy way to be a style/taste/class arbiter, or just because its the internet and anyone from a 12 year old who wants to make trouble to someone in a straight jacket can join up and type the words "Black is for funeral director."

As Ive maintained before, funeral directors wear black poly suits from some discount warehouse with a garish white poly shirt and poly self striped tie and etonics. Perhaps a "gentleman" with some taste wears a lumbs golden bale black self herringbone, a nice blue shirt, a charvet tie and beautiful calf shoes.

One has to always consider the source. As far as Im concerned, I cant take anyone's opinions to deeply to heart if they may be posting in dirty boxers. And people who arent posting their own style for criticism and yet criticizing others know what kind of person they are...or are not.

____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

When I see people who are too critical and rely too much on the "rules" I think of Frazier and Niles Crane.

Looking grotesquely poorly dressed is a bad thing, but I can think of sins that are far worse.

I look to this forum for good ideas and good advice. There are a lot of good ideas and good advice here. What I disagree with, I don't adopt (whether I post about it or not.)

Everyone has their own opinion.


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by manton_
> 
> FlatSix gets my vote for post of the year.


This is mine, although, I'm usure of what U ARE ELEET EST means and what is a Chess King?, how it represents 1992, uneducated, mall something something Jersey-mall-trash-circa-1992-outfit that makes you look like you have BIlly Idol ?

Flat Six Quote:

WTF IS THE MATTER WITH U PEOPLE U THINK U ARE ELEET EST MY UNCLE DRESSES LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME AND HE OWNS HIS OWN STREET THEATER COMPANY SO THERE.

*** Elegance - a refined quality of gracefulness and good taste *** To achieve a dashing with panache persona


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## JohnnyVegas (Nov 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Sophistication_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're being serious, I will translate for you....

U ARE ELEET EST translates to "you are elitist."


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Since I own one black suit, Flax Six informed that I am a cult leader and have started a "Cult of The Black Trou", :

Flat Six Quote:

hideous black outfits. And your eternal soul is not endangered by doing so. But expecting people to throw away decades of experience and follow your Cult Of The Black Trou* is too much


And someone needs to find out what A Chess King is?

*** Elegance - a refined quality of gracefulness and good taste *** To achieve a dashing with panache persona


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Well put....



> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> When I see people who are too critical and rely too much on the "rules" I think of Frazier and Niles Crane.
> 
> ...


guit


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

Yes. IMO a fad among young kids. Suits and slacks. Nothing should be black except leather goods (wallets, briefcases, gloves, etc) and umbrellas. 

Go navy or char grey for your dark goods.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

What about if a person was wearing Black Wrangler Jeans?


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Howard_
> 
> What about if a person was wearing Black Wrangler Jeans?





> quote:_Not really posted by Sophistication_
> 
> Wrangler jeans? Oh yes, seriously, tomorrow I will be Borrelli wearing a set of Borrelli Borelli Borellis with my Borrelli black Borelli Wrangler Borrelli jeans Borelli Borrelli Borrelli aaaaragh the pain Borrelli Borrelli Borrelli make it stopppppp Borrellli Borrelli
> 
> *sound of exploding monkey cranium*


----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## JBZ (Mar 28, 2005)

Sometime this evening, while I am sitting at home, I'm going to think back to FlatSix's last post and start laughing uncontrollably.

Thank you, sir. (may I have another?)


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Never cared much for black jeans.

AG Jeans get my vote for the best jeans for the money though. 
Paper Denim second.







*** Elegance - a refined quality of gracefulness and good taste *** To achieve a dashing with panache persona


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Howard, black jeans, yea, I like them too......I am fully out of step with so many...it's been a good day.

guit


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Howard_
> 
> What about if a person was wearing Black Wrangler Jeans?


He would look horrible. Well, unless he got some of those really cool big clunky Ken Cole black shoes with a semi high heel. Oh, and a skin tight crew knit. Very good look.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Wow, over 100 posts, over 2,000 views.....

guit


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

Look what you started...


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> Wow, over 100 posts, over 2,000 views.....
> 
> guit


Thats because this forum isnt only about the enjoyment of clothes. It is also about the judgment of them and ultimately the lifestyle of those wearing them. If I leave any legacy in the minds of readers here, I would hope it would be to open their eyes to the fact that no matter what you think of a certain item or look, there is an elegant way and a lowbrow way to carry it off. Think not that you would never wear a black turtleneck with a black suit. Think rather if you had no choice being stuck in a situation that you had to wear this look, how you would optimize it the way a man of taste and distinction would by choosing what would become the "right" way to sport such an outfit. I think this is an important mental exercise in the matter of enjoying wearing clothes.

Good Lord, I can no longer function without spellcheck!

____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I think this is pretty much how I view it..one should carry themselves with a sense of their style and their taste....BTW, I like black on black (oh no, I didn't really say that)...

There is a way to put things together and a way to not put things together, and what works for me may not work for someone else, so much of it is in the way we carry it off and the way we carry ourselves.



> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

FNB wrote:
I would hope it would be to open their eyes to the fact that no matter what you think of a certain item or look, there is an elegant way and a lowbrow way to carry it off

~~~~

Well said, so true!

I have no fears that if I found myself in a white shirt and black pants standing outside a nice restaurant, nary a soul would mistake me for the valet!


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

I think this may well be the greatest post ever. 
(If you don't count everything Howard has written... or posted a picture of)



> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> 
> "Sophistication" -
> 
> ...


----------



## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Agreed Cantabrigian,

When Flatsix is on something, he is great!
His posts are all too rare.


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

What made it even better was its coming on the heels of the smart loafers with tux thread. 

The Alt-Shift-B thing was fantastic also given the desire which I do not understand for some people to write the names of Italian makers as much as possible. 

I guess it's all about bespoke clothing and accessories from premium brands like Kiton, Borelli, Attolini and sometimes Corneliani. And Brioni. And Borelli once more for good measure. 

Wait a minute... now that... wait... it's becoming clear. 

Sophistication and Fashion TC are the same person!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by jmorgan32_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok I've got to try that one day.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I understand that black pants are perfectly acceptable with smart, modern shoes.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> I understand that black pants are perfectly acceptable with smart, modern shoes.


Heh.


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## Aus_MD (Nov 2, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> I understand that black pants are perfectly acceptable with smart, modern shoes.


Loafers or duck-bills?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> I understand that black pants are perfectly acceptable with smart, modern shoes.


What color are smart modern shoes?


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## JRY (Mar 22, 2005)

Ladies & Gentlemen,

O.K. - it's getting close to the end of the year. I nominate this thread as the absolute best of 2005. I haven't laughed this loud in quite some time; _and it started out so innocently_. Flat-Six, you are the man! 

Regards,

JRY-John

"There are many ways in which to break a plate, but only one way to put it back together." - Howard Roberts


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## boomerchop (Nov 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> I think this is pretty much how I view it..one should carry themselves with a sense of their style and their taste....BTW, I like black on black (oh no, I didn't really say that)...
> 
> There is a way to put things together and a way to not put things together, and what works for me may not work for someone else, so much of it is in the way we carry it off and the way we carry ourselves.


Wow, I just read this thread through in one sitting. It is amazing that a question can generate so much thought, angst, energy and vitriol. It seems to be a good example of how everyone has an opinion...., what always astounds me is the intensity with which these opinions are held and promulgated as ruleschiseled in stone that everyone should recognize and follow.

Further, having lurked around this forum for a few weeks, I don't think I would ever post a question such as was asked. It is entirely too predictable what the tenor of the ensuing discussion is going to be.

Toward the end I note that the anti-black camp, perhaps having exhausted themselves, faded from the discussion, leaving a few thoughts such as guitone's quote above reflecting the notion that people are free to do what pleases them. And like guitone, whose thoughts I have found myself agreeing with before, I conclude that there are a few rules that a gentleman should be aware of and respect, but beyond that I am free to establish myself as an individual, and if I am extremely successful doing this, I can even break a rule or two in the process.


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## Daywalker (Aug 21, 2005)

I agree with boomerchop and guitone on this one.

On the subject, black trousers are a great option to have. I most recently wore a beautiful pair of 120's pleated and cuffed with black AldenFan Norwegian front loafers, a white shirt, and a beautiful black-and-grey mini houndstooth sportcoat, also in 120's---drinks after work. Several of "the rules" were broken, I know.
It was a fantastic combination.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by boomerchop_
> 
> what always astounds me is the intensity with which these opinions are held and promulgated as rules chiseled in stone that everyone should recognize and follow.


Really? Who actually says that? All anyone has to do around here is answer a question (e.g., Q: "Are black suits traditionally appropritae for business?" A: "No, for many years that have not been") and at least half a dozen people come out of the woodwork to say "You constipated ass, how dare you try to tell me what to wear!"

No one says that any rule is "chiseled in stone" or that "everyone should recognize and follow" them. This is a clothing forum. Sometimes people ask questions about traditional usage and practice. Some of us answer them. Moreover, beyond the rules, opinions are solicited. Do members think this or that is tasteful and/or stylish? We give our opinions. That's pretty much the extent of it. Why this continues to upset so many people, who insist on engaging in willful misinterpretation of the answers given, is beyond me.

I wonder: do any of you troll foodie forums and berate people seeking and offering recipe advice that they should not be so hung up on forumlas but should just head for the stove with a handful of ingrediants and wing it?



> quote:I conclude that there are a few rules that a gentleman should be aware of and respect, but beyond that I am free to establish myself as an individual, and if I am extremely successful doing this, I can even break a rule or two in the process.


Has anyone denied this?


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Manton, I don't recall anyone calling anyone a constipated ass, although I do think it a charming term.



> quote:_Originally posted by manton_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


guit


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I don't think it's the advice that upsets people as much as the vehemence of the opinions on both sides of the issue. Manton is generally far more informative than vehement.

I would have to bet that the vast majority of us are glad Manton posts here even if we don't always follow his advice.

(In my case, were I more affluent, I would love to follow more of Manton's advice.)

That being said, I'll still wear my black pants. I live in a Midwest city (Lansing, MI) where not wearing jeans is quite dressy to many people. (And while this may not be correct, to a lot of people here, a sport coat and tie are almost the equivalent of a suit.) 

I would purchase a black suit only if I had many others.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by MrRogers_
> 
> Case in point....
> 
> ...


Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by a tailor_
> 
> black pants. the very thing for bussing tables.
> 
> Alex Di Pietropaolo


sorry. only meant as a jest

Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I have no issue with information given and opinions given, but above it was hit on the head, it is the vehemence of these that can sometimes be offensive. Manton has never offended me in any of his post that I can recall, there are a few who's post generally stop me in my tracks, I shake my head and I go on. As for atailors post, glad to know it was in jest, where are those emoticons when we need them[8D][}][B)]

guit


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## cognos (Jul 23, 2005)

JFK?

I once wore a blue sportcoat with subtle gold pinstripes with a pair of black trousers, and I asked my mother's opinion (she had really good fashion intuition) and she said "that looks fine, oh and BTW JFK wore blue with black all the time."

True or False ??? I really have no idea. I was born long after JFK's passing and am familiar with his look only via b/w Life magazine photos.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by cognos_
> 
> JFK?
> 
> ...


Although, I cannot comment on your own ecclectic outfit's appropriateness or beauty, not having been able to see it in person and admitting that the described combination makes me wince a bit, I can tell you that many of the most in the know combine blue and black in other combinations, namely a black tie with a navy suit.

____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I have never worn black with navy, although I do have a tie or two that combine black and blue. I can see combining some blues with black, although I have not done it, I would have to see the shade of blue to know. Black can go with almost any other color, is black really a color?

guit


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Rules are rules! Or, are some guide lines? Or, rules with exceptions?

Morning coat, strollers, black tie and white tie are rules not to be broken, unless stated in the invitation.

Guide lines are often mistaken as rules. For example, this one guy I know painted his living room walls an ugly dark reddish brown color, the furniture did goes with it at all, nor the carpet, the carpet and furniture did go together, either. If he had follewed the guilde lines he would have had a nice room. His girl friend, which became his wife later, changed everything- the whole atmosphere, which she created, by her selection of colors and there placement, made a wonderful relaxed peaceful room to be in. 

Generally, black overtakes other colors, not just on you but other people around. So, a good guide line is- don't wear black unless everybody is wearing black (be polite). But, once in awhile, I come across somebody wearing black that softens his countance, therefore, removeing the power of black, so ok. For most people, a wise decision is, a dark grey, dark green, dark red, dark brown, navy blue. 

Black pants are low enough that some of you should be able to counter the power of black with your shirts, ties and sports coats. 

Leather jackets, jeans, and etc. are in a completely different category.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I am a saleman, I come into an office and I leave within a half hour. If I go to a party I don't think that others will be offended or taken over with me wearing black. I just don't subscribe to that theory for me..and I emphasize "for me". I just don't see this power color thing, this overtaking thing...it is one of many colors to be used in ones wardrobe. Now if I was to wear back daily I think it would be boring. I do wear black shoes alot, but not as much as I wear my other colors combine, the browns, burgundies and the tans. Maybe I do wear black shoes mostly. I am not trying to be difficult, btw, I just feel that there are so many thoughts on colors and styles and this and that..for one I will not wear black and brown together (with the expeption of a black overcoat with brown shoes or pants), many people do and are very comfortable with it and I read an article recently in GQ or somewhere saying it is a great combo....For me it is not about rules (well except for black and brown), but again, about what I am comfortable with....black pants, pink shirts, yellow socks, orange cords...to each their own....



guit


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by WA_
> 
> Rules are rules! Or, are some guide lines? Or, rules with exceptions?


There are a few rules; most of them have to do with fit and perhaps construction. Some are guidelines which for the sake of personal control (in all areas) some need to mantra into concreteness in order to allay their anxieties. The black suit has its place. It isnâ€™t the first choice for business but it has a definite role there. I donâ€™t own a black solid suit but I would imagine that a black solid suit, a white shirt and a silver tie would yield you some results the "French Mistake" boys wouldnâ€™t find stylish. But then clothes style is about effect as much as it is about imagined effect. There are dozens of patterned suitings I see with a black base that are without doubt acceptable, and the black suit is considered acceptable if not always the absolute best choice (wouldnâ€™t be my first choice). At night, unless you judge people, and that I daresay is YOUR own problem and no one else's, black suits are de rigueur if you hang out with a beautiful, talented and sophisticated crowd in the largest American Cities. If you donâ€™t, then by all means, wear the 18 oz flannel and the spats.

There are occasions when it is odd to wear a black suit. There are likewise occsions when it is odd to wear a navy pinstripe suit. However, because there are more occasions when it isnt advised to wear a black solid suit than a navy pinstripe suit doesnt make it wrong to ever wear one. Certainly that proves no rule but merely suggests rarity, just like the rarity of an occasion to wear white flannel trousers, but that doesnt mean they are a sartorial no no.

I personally do not like wearing black odd trousers, nor do I think it looks good. However, that doesnt mean Im going to suggest its a rule. There just happen to be better choices out there. If youre unsure of your own social status, there is also the possiblity you would worry about being mistaken for a waiter. I may be mistaken for a waiter, but I certainly dont live in fear that it might happen.

Black suiting is another story. If I want to have a suit to get my point across with a strong willed crowd, black may be just the ticket. Black suits with white/silver pinstripes are handsome. Black suits at night make me a part of something I want to be a part of, whether guy's my dad's age (whether actual or mental) approve of it.

People say things to cast aspersions on the lifestyle and/or job of a black suit wearer because they remember a rule of thumb they heard about a while ago, maybe 25 years. Back then, men owned a few suits, now itâ€™s common to own a dozen or more for different purposes. Perhaps it wasnâ€™t the best choice but I never heard of it being against a rule, just a rarely selected but acceptable item.

I donâ€™t even know where the gist is coming from sometimes about black pants or suits. Surely a waiter can be stylish? Surely a farmer too? I donâ€™t know if the MB is chock-a-block with attorneys but I suppose they need to concentrate on anything that keeps them looking decent? It seems to me that the professions people think are socially high quality are inundated by people of all classes and backgrounds (and competencies.) It may be time to stop assuming certain professions are for certain types, at least in the USA.

I deal with serious men with means and frankly they are wearing black solid suits from time to time because it is now almost 2006. I know thereâ€™s an element that likes to remember it the way it was in 1979 but aside from those halcyon dressing war stories, thatâ€™s all pretty much gone. Anyone who wants to stomp around wearing clothes from 40-50 years ago does so as a style martyr.

Clothes serve a purpose, people make up the judgments. The man who insists he will show up in his Bedford cord pants and bowtie will probably be waving to me getting into a cab with two hotties, and might even be convinced of his superiority to me. Thatâ€™s grand, and ill accept that addition any day.

If you run a classic bookstore you need to dress differently than if you are a private equity banker. If youâ€™re a sports analyst on ESPN, you dress differently than if youâ€™re a photographer from the bay area. I donâ€™t know why I keep hearing "ooh, ooh, he's not a gentleman", or "Thatâ€™s ok for THOSE types of people." Who are the people making these comments anyway? We have an incredible dearth of persons submitting their superb personal styles on here. Back in the 30s through the 60s, American men dressed differently for different purposes. If some cast social aspersions on the way certain occupations dressed, that certainly didnâ€™t mean there werenâ€™t some within that sub group who dressed "well." Even today, I would imagine a well heeled man needs to wear different looks for different purposes. Perhaps itâ€™s all about being comfortable, a recurring theme with style as far as Iâ€™m concerned. If youâ€™re too worried about being right (or getting it right) you certainly cannot dress to make the crowd youâ€™re meeting comfortable or uncomfortable.

A lot of items that were considered elegant have been forgotten by the menâ€™s clothing market. They are retired out of the selection because the RTW market doesnâ€™t want to bother with them. If they get reintroduced, they shock the bourgeois, who are automatically conditioned to react negatively to the unexpected. That demonstrates to me that items are being granted elegant status by the middle class, which is a violation of the spirit of the rules themselves.

If people are going to lay down rules, they need to get them right, not insinuate them into existence or cut and paste disconnected facts that seem to add up to a philosophy.



> quote:Morning coat, strollers, black tie and white tie are rules not to be broken, unless stated in the invitation.
> 
> Guide lines are often mistaken as rules.


Or bludgeoned into being them.

Copyright Â© 2005 Film Noir Buff
____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## Pickwick (Dec 24, 2005)

This has been a very interesting thread to read.

Having grown up and come of age in a very traditional household, from a very early age, my mother had always impressed upon me to never wear brown or black (she assumed and took for granted I had enough sense not to wear bright or pastel colors, and hence never warned me of those) suits. Just about every suit I have for work is some sort of blue or gray solid or pinstripe. For some reason, she also impressed upon me to â€œneverâ€ wear brown shoes.

After almost 10 years of wearing the â€œblues and grays,â€ Iâ€™ve been seriously considering incorporating a black suit in my normal business attire. Even now, because of what was impressed upon me for so many years, Iâ€™d probably always eschew a solid black suit (excluding the dinner jacket at night, of course), however I have been considering wearing a black pinstripe suit for work.

That is why this thread has been so interesting for me. After reading this, Iâ€™m not sure if that would still be a good idea. LOL

I work in a very conservative profession. What are your views on the merits, or lack thereof, in wearing a black pinstripe suit?


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Pickwick_
> 
> This has been a very interesting thread to read.
> 
> ...


The black patterned suitings have never been in question. This all revolves around black solid suits or pants. It seems like quite a few men have been taught to dress by their moms. Well, were reclaiming mens clothing for men. My mom now asks me for tips on dressing. I did get lucky in the sense that my mom taught me color and pattern coordination early which seems to elude most men. If you get a good quality black pinstripe suit that fits well, youre fine.

____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> Some are guidelines which for the sake of personal control (in all areas) some need to mantra into concreteness in order to allay their anxieties.


Once again, you hit the nail on the head, neatly capturing every possible reason or motive someone might have for believing or preferring something. I would add only that there is another category of "some" who seem able to allay their own anxieties only by insulting others and grandly pretending to be above the concerns of ordinary proles.



> quote:At night, unless you judge people, and that I daresay is YOUR own problem and no one else's, black suits are de rigueur if you hang out with a beautiful, talented and sophisticated crowd in the largest American Cities.


Really? There is nothing else one can wear? Are the beautiful, talented and sophisticated so shallow that they will shun you if you are not dressed in black?

I note in passing that _de rigueur_ loosely translated means "required" or "compulsory", i.e., a rule. So it's not merely that you don't like rules, I take it? You just need to be the arbiter?



> quote:If you donâ€™t, then by all means, wear the 18 oz flannel and the spats.


Either a black suit or that? There's nothing else one could wear? Why, I had no idea.



> quote:If youre unsure of your own social status, there is also the possiblity you would worry about being mistaken for a waiter. I may be mistaken for a waiter, but I certainly dont live in fear that it might happen.


Why is it that you must impute such low motives like this to everyone who disagrees with you? Projection?

I note as well that in an earlier thread you specifically said that you wear a midnight blue dinner jacket so as not to be mistaken for a waiter. So apparently the fear grips even you.



> quoteeople say things to cast aspersions on the lifestyle and/or job of a black suit wearer because they remember a rule of thumb they heard about a while ago, maybe 25 years.


Really? There _no other_ reason? We can all assume that you've looked into this at some length?



> quote:Anyone who wants to stomp around wearing clothes from 40-50 years ago does so as a style martyr.


That makes you a martyr, too, because the suits you (and I, and almost everyone) wears are almost unchanged from about 1930.



> quote:The man who insists he will show up in his Bedford cord pants and bowtie will probably be waving to me getting into a cab with two hotties, and might even be convinced of his superiority to me.


Surely we're all impressed by your tremendous success with the ladies. But without new photos, the above really adds no value.



> quote:If you run a classic bookstore you need to dress differently than if you are a private equity banker. If youâ€™re a sports analyst on ESPN, you dress differently than if youâ€™re a photographer from the bay area. I donâ€™t know why I keep hearing "ooh, ooh, he's not a gentleman", or "Thatâ€™s ok for THOSE types of people." Who are the people making these comments anyway?


With your constant references to social class, and the smart set, and "those in the know", I would point toward you. No one else around here seems to make the points you summarize, above.



> quote:If youâ€™re too worried about being right (or getting it right) you certainly cannot dress to make the crowd youâ€™re meeting comfortable or uncomfortable.


From what I can tell, you worry more about supposed people obsessed with being right than any actual members worry about being right. Why is it such a concern? What do you think you are saving us from?



> quote:A lot of items that were considered elegant have been forgotten by the menâ€™s clothing market. They are retired out of the selection because the RTW market doesnâ€™t want to bother with them. If they get reintroduced, they shock the bourgeois, who are automatically conditioned to react negatively to the unexpected. That demonstrates to me that items are being granted elegant status by the middle class, which is a violation of the spirit of the rules themselves.


There is so much snobbery packed into this that I don't know where to begin. For starters, can't you see how this contradicts half of what you wrote, above?



> quote:If people are going to lay down rules, they need to get them right, not insinuate them into existence or cut and paste disconnected facts that seem to add up to a philosophy.


Who is laying down rules? Who is wrong about any rules previously stated? Examples. Why are any of the reasons, justifications or histories incorrect? Examples.



> quote:Or bludgeoned into being them.


The only bludgeoning I read here is from you. "Don't listen to any rules, ever! Don't be middle class! If you don't like something I like, it's because you are insecure!"


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

Pickwick- You don't have any lite colored suits? Maybe cream is a good color to start with. There is more to enjoy than dark colored suits. Don't know what your Mom taught you, but you need to get the saw out and cut the door bigger- for there is more to bring in than what Mom taught you. I love diversity, otherwise things get to same same, so boring boring. If things get to dark, then ligthen up. Men may not say anything about lite colored suits, except by going out and buy some and wear them. But, most likely some women will speak up. Wearing a lite colored suit once a week to work in the spring - fall is a goood idea, and snowy weather, too. After all, God can't be wrong! Didn't He make the wise old owl of the north white in the winter with the snow?

A black suit with white shirt and grey tie before six just can't be right- it is tooooooo formal. A black suit with white shirt with french blue tie, or santa red or green tie, or yellow- even paisly is much better for day time. There has to be color in there somewhere for daytime. The socks tooo need to be colored, and certainly not dark. And, a richly colored pocket square.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> There are a few rules [snip generally excellent post]


As a friend of mine who is the son of a Baptist minister would say, preach it, Brother Buff! [8D]


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

> quote:As a friend of mine who is the son of a Baptist minister would say, preach it, Brother Buff!


 Yessuh. Preach to the choir.

*https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks **​


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## passingtime (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Alexander Kabbaz_
> 
> Yessuh. Preach to the choir.


I don't think this is preaching to the choir, on this board the choir is on the other side.

There are people who are trying to achieve a certain look, say from the 1930's, and for these people rules are applicable because history says people dressed in a certain way (regional variations aside.)

For the more general approach there is convention, or rather peer judgement, to decide what is suitable. For example, if you are working in finance in London and wear a suit then it should be dark and your shoes should be black although, within reason, the style of the shoe doesn't matter (black open toe sandals are not a good idea).


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I find this obnoxious and it reveals an incredibly insecure person with an enormous social complex.


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

*



quote:I find this obnoxious and it reveals an incredibly insecure person with an enormous social complex.

Click to expand...

don't be silly. I may not agree with everything that FNB has written but it certainly is thought provoking. I'd be more inclined to listen to you if you addressed the subject matter at hand rather than make otiose personal attacks.

AZTEC*

**************************************
Bite that apple before you lose those teeth.


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## hope (Nov 30, 2005)

Last week, my wife gave me a new pair of BLACK trousers.

She tells me I look very sexy in them.

She keeps buying them for me, I keep wearing them.

Thatâ€™s the rules in my house.

You have your rules, I have my rules.

When was these rule made? and no, I donâ€™t what to spend money on a book. I like what my wife gave me.

Rules, rules, rules are to be broken, this is 2005 *not* 1930's

There *just* trousers, 142 replies later, poor â€œjosepidalâ€, put them on before you get a cold. Forget what people say, what dose your wife say.

*Remember, we get dressed to look nice, so that we my get undress faster? True *

FNB, _can you start a new post with new rules (2005). The do's and dont's please._


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Great, bully for you. But why should it bother you if, when josepidal asks for opinions, other people give theirs? Why should that bother anyone? I don't know, but it manifestly does. Josepidal is entitled to ask any question he wants, and other members are entitled to give any answer they want, so long as it is within the boundaries of Andy's rules for the forum.

In this case, please note that I did not even offer my opinion. I stayed out of this thread for a long time, knowing that merely stating my opinion unaccountably upsets people who think that I have either the power or inclination or both to send them to hell for holding opinions different than my own. Yet I got dragged into it anyway.


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

Jose, hopefully your curiosity was satisifed. This thread and others like it are always interesting exercises in human psychology. He asked for opinions and got some. Why people feel personally attacked because some dislike black pants is beyond me. These rules are not legislation, they are convention. You can play along or not. That simple.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

Rules are made to be broken, hopefully if they are they are done so in taste. Rules of dress are not tangible, they are opinion, opinion only. Don't wear black shoes with brown suits ( I agree with this one), don't wear shirt tails sticking out of your jacket, ok, I but that one too. The color of pants and the appropriate wearing of these in social situations may have it's place. I can understand the view on black suits, but still, they can look nice, they are just not very flexible/useful. Black slacks, still don't get what is wrong with them so for me nothing is wrong with them, just wear them with the right accessaries. I have more trouble with orange and red and yellow and bright blue pants to be honest...but they are trad I guess. And pants with dogs and other wildlife on them are not for me, but if you like them you should wear them. I often see the ohhing and ahing on this board about these things, I just don't get it, but that is ok.

Stay well all and enjoy the holiday spirit. I think this subjest has been beaten to death but I bet it still has a ways to go.

guit


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

Guit,

The majority of posters didn't say that there was anything wrong with black pants, just that they didn't like them. I don't like them because I associated them with service jobs (of which I have personally had a few). I prefer other colors. I think the perplexing issue is that people have gotten so angry about others opinions.

Poster #1: "Should I make bread without yeast?"
Poster #2: "No, bread made withouth yeast isn't that good"
Poster #3: "You're an a-hole, my wife makes bread without yeast that rocks and she won't sleep with me if I criticize it."


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> Rules of dress are not tangible, they are opinion, opinion only.


This is not really correct. The rules of dress are not natural or binding, certainly, but they are more than opinion. They have the weight of tradition and practice and history behind them. They are what they are irrespective of anyone's opinion. Someone's opinion might be that this or that rule is dumb or unjustified; he might even be right. But that does not alter the existence or non-existence of the rule.

It's like (say) shaking hands. There is nothing in nature or the Bible which says we must do this. One might think it is a stupid custom ("spreads germs"). But it would be a mistake to conclude from that that the custom does not exist, or is only the misguided opinion of a few people.



> quoteon't wear black shoes with brown suits ( I agree with this one)


I love to wear black shoes with brown suits. It's about the only time I enjoy wearing black shoes.



> quote:Black slacks, still don't get what is wrong with them so for me nothing is wrong with them


It's not that anything is "wrong" with them. It's merely that, traditionally, they have not been part of the trad and/or Savile Row Anglo/American canon.

Also, some people just don't like them. Yet I don't see any of their opponents trying to talk their fans out of liking them. But I read a lot of posts in which their fans seem to think some justification for their taste is necessary. It isn't. We all like what we like. _De gustibus non est disputandum_.


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

*
Maybe a better way of describing the 'rules of dress' is to characterize them as a concensus of (informed?) opinion as to what is right or proper in any given situation. This concensus evolves and changes over time. For example, the fact that most men go hatless today.

However it does beg the question as to which group of people form that concensus...clearly it is not simply a social elite or a social majority ...or is it? On the question of black trousers, there is not a concensus on this forum.

Fashion and clothing evolve over time. People often wax nostalgic over the fashion of a previous generation (myself included) but this nostalgia doesn't extend back more than 2 or 3 generations...anything further back starts to venture into the realm of 'costume'

AZTEC*

**************************************
Bite that apple before you lose those teeth.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Use whatever term you want. These threads always come around to disputing whether "rule" is the right term or whether some other would better fit the bill. Perhaps some other term would. I have no problem with "rule" but its implications apparently upset a lot of people.

No one disputes that dress evolves. I dispute only the notions that there never have been any rules, and that black suitings and odd trouserings have always been widely accepted. I also dispute that black looks good (with certain exceptions) but that is really another matter. I have no illusions about the power of argument to change people's tastes.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

maxnharry,point taken...

manton, tradition has never meant it is the only way, just a way. If one wants to walk down that path that is fine.

You really like black shoe with brown suits (I would think the reverse, so there you go).

I can live with folks not liking something...I guess my peeve was the correlation of service jobs, as if there was someting wrong with that..maybe I read too much into it. manton, it sounds like you and I both worked our way up to where we are....I worked in jeans much of the time, as a youngster in bellbottoms and boots...i wear neither today..so maybe there is a sensitivity there that I just don't have.

Still, black and white or black and gray, or black and ivory are just wonderful combinations (as it black on black if the blacks match)..

The thing about black that bothers me is that it has become a very in thing, a very bohemian thing, a very artsy thing (not just become but over the years)... If I was to shy away from black it would be for this and only this reason (and that is totaly snobbery on my part)

guit


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> tradition has never meant it is the only way, just a way.


Once again, where have I ever said otherwise? All I say (occasionally and when asked) is "This is what the tradition is."


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

As "the individual is foolish...but the species is wise" I would propose that more respect should be given to these traditional rules than perhaps one is personally inclined to. They are the cumulative wisdom of generations of sartorial knowledge. Yes, at times they can--and should--organically grow and change. And while some may indeed be Sartorial Supermen who rise above the limitations of the Common Man, I would submit that such thinking is almost always a conceit that results in the types of errors that the rules exist to prevent.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> And while some may indeed be Sartorial Supermen who rise above the limitations of the Common Man, I would submit that such thinking is almost always a conceit that results in the types of errors that the rules exist to prevent.


Well said. Are there rules against plagiarising things from the Web?


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## Pickwick (Dec 24, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by WA_
> 
> Pickwick- You don't have any lite colored suits?


LOL...I do have some lighter grays here and there.

Seriously, it isn't that I find "light" suits ugly or unappealing, but merely from a pragmatic point of view, it behooves one to wear the darker accepted colors (blues and grays in solids or pinstripes).

If only because the upper management have all come of age in an era when blues and grays were accepted, while certain colors were not. For me, itâ€™s more to err on the side of caution.

Of course, I agree that every person has a right to wear what he/she pleases. However, Iâ€™d rather not risk one of my older bossâ€™ last impressions of me committing what he believes to be a major fashion faux pas.

Now, if I were in advertising, I just might be inspired to make a fashion trend by putting on that jet black 6 button flaired lapel suit by whoever fashion maker's name I can't pronounce properly!

Just my views.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by manton_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You or me? The only thing I lifted is in quotation marks. You can feel free to use it provided I get a signed copy of your book.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

manton, I was not accsusing you, just venting my feeling....I have not read a post by you insisting that something should be this or that way. Sorry if my post seemed vague.



> quote:_Originally posted by manton_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


guit


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> manton, I was not accsusing you, just venting my feeling....


Fair enough. You continue to wear black, I'll stick with gray, blue, and brown, and we'll both be happy.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by a tailor_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


your skivies.

Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

This sure brought the passions out in us, didn't it? Our love hate relationship with the RULES. And some of us trying to pigon hole this and that. And Manton so freely giving us the rules when asked. Even though, he has other likes, himself, he still gives us the rules when asked. And we get to debate our love and hate of the rules.

While we all write from out heart, or what were supposed to write (according to some people, Mom, Dad, King, Queen, teacher princilpal, etc), we get to see how individual we are, and that were all equal (nobody is better than anybody else). So, we can all agreeablely disagree with each other, from time to time. And 20 years from now you maybe "fighting" the otherside. Rules can be a tool, and sometimes the opposite is a tool.


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## Gus (Oct 8, 2005)

"I hate black. I think it is hideous, and only receptionists and housekeepers and people like that ought to wear it." 

Gina Hudd (a half Italian) in "They do it with mirrors", by that literary giant, Agatha Christie. I suppose the question is settled now?


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## Horace (Jan 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by iammatt_
> 
> Yes. The only color of pants that I might like even less is navy blue. Navy pants look terrible unless they are worn by a Frenchman in France, in which case, oddly, they look just fine.


I wouldn't wear black trousers though I don't mind them. However, I do like navy odd trousers. I've never been able to find a jacket that I think looks right with them. People used to do the old grey herringbone jacket or the donegal or the lighter silk/mohair, but grey never looked quite right to me. (Though certainly, the reverse, grey trousers and a blue blazer has always been a great look). That said, however, I do think that navy trousers with a white shirt and black shoes is a swell look. Grant did it in NxNW and I always thought it a swell look, esp. when he paired the cambridge grey socks with the look. As a casual look, sans jacket, I've always found then that it's either khakis or navy trousers plus a white button-down for me.


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## mano (Mar 17, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by manton_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Try some prune juice, bubbela.

The rules Manton refers to evolved over time and happen to work. The rules are not law, and are, to certain degrees, contextual and flexible. I may dress well, but my sense of style and color is not natural. Accordingly, I have frequently refered to the rules so graciously shared by Andy and Manton, et. al. For this, I cannot thank you enough. Yet, as I become more comfortable with the rules, I occassionally bend or break some of them, as I see fit for me.

Anyone trained in the creative, performing or culinary arts knows there are lots of rules, because they work. People with talent and a creative bent are inclined to challenge rules and the outcome may range from cacauphany or a meal that missed to mark, to something that is intriguing or even brilliant.

I'm also wondering if railing against "the rules" on this, and other threads, is an American phenomenon?

BTW, I own a black suit, which I used to wear during the day, but now wear it only to funerals and certain evening functions. Once I lose a few pounds, I'll get right back into my black pants!


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

This forum thread inspired me to wear a pair of black slacks with a mini-houndstooth jacket (black and brown teeth, so to speak), blue shirt and a red bow tie to a holiday party last night. I looked quite studly if I do say so myself.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by KenR_
> 
> This forum thread inspired me to wear a pair of black slacks with a mini-houndstooth jacket (black and brown teeth, so to speak), blue shirt and a red bow tie to a holiday party last night. I looked quite studly if I do say so myself.


Black slacks with a mini houndstooth jacket is just the way a dandy would rock it.[]

____________________
Get In Touch With Your Sartorial Chi.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Thank you. I'm not exactly sure of what a dandy is but if it means being with a nicely built blond like the one in your other thread, I'll take it.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

The Beau, the Duke and Fred Astaire dropped by last night, they all helped me pick a black solid fabric in a 120s with cashmere to make up into a day suit.

____________________
They seek him here, they seek him there

Those roolzies seek him everywhere

But give him credit, he knows his stuff

That damned, elusive, Film Noir Buff


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> The Beau, the Duke and Fred Astaire dropped by last night, they all helped me pick a black solid fabric in a 120s with cashmere to make up into a day suit.


Did any of these three men ever wear a black lounge suit (or, in the case of Brummel, black informal day wear, since the lounge suit had not yet been invented in his day)? Can you honestly say that any of these men had a philosophy of dress that would have led them toward a black lounge suit in this day and age? If you want to wear black lounge suits, go ahead, by all means; but it seems uninformed at best to claim that various style icons of the past would applaud your choice when the evidence is to the contrary.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jcusey_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They were all ahead of the curve, it seems logical they wouldve moved forward, so yes, I can honestly say this in good conscience. Though, im starting to wonder about whats up here. That was a very light hearted post and it should remain that way.

Its like a song:

Then the three men I admire most, the Beau the Duke and FA's ghost
They chose the last swatch from their H. Lesser Host
The day, the ru-hules... well, lets keep it fun, shall we?

____________________
They seek him here, they seek him there

Those roolzies seek him everywhere

But give him credit, he knows his stuff

That damned, elusive, Film Noir Buff


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> They were all ahead of the curve, it seems logical they wouldve moved forward, so yes, I can honestly say this in good conscience. Though, im starting to wonder about whats up here. That was a very light hearted post and it should remain that way.


Oh, I see where the difference arises. You think that black suits are ahead of the curve. I think that black suits have been done so much in the past few years that, whatever their sartorial merits might be, they've become utterly conventional.

As for "whats up," I merely object to falsely appropriating long-dead sartorial marvels in an attempt to shore up one's argument.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jcusey_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I may be a bit trepedatious these days. Ive rather had the feeling that theres been so much ego and odium colliding over what is and isnt, I wanted to make sure it was known that twas not provocation but merely a little insouciant imagery.

I love all three icons and would never deride them, they are without doubt part of my style pantheon!

Hmm, good point about the black suits. Mayhap depends on which industry or part of the country youre in. Didnt twain say something about anything fashionable taking 5 extra years to reach Ohio?

____________________
They seek him here, they seek him there

Those roolzies seek him everywhere

But give him credit, he knows his stuff

That damned, elusive, Film Noir Buff


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_Well, I may be a bit trepedatious these days.


Would you say, neologistic too?


> quote:I love all three icons and would never deride them, they are without doubt part of my style pantheon!


In which case remember that one always runs the risk of offending the gods.


> quote:Hmm, good point about the black suits. Mayhap depends on which industry or part of the country youre in. Didnt twain say something about anything fashionable taking 5 extra years to reach Ohio?


Another attempted put down reflecting your own snobbery and class insecurity. Anyone who questions you must be from some sort of hinterland. Funny, I seem to remember Twain using apostrophes.


> quote:They seek him here, they seek him there
> Those roolzies seek him everywhere
> But give him credit, he knows his stuff
> That damned, elusive, Film Noir Buff


If only. Rather, you're quite prominent. You know _your_ stuff. But please, don't appropriate the sartorial greats to justify your caprices. It's also inconsistent with your self-styled iconoclasm. Baronness Orczy must be spinning in her grave.

-- l'homme-RJ


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## Blackadder (Apr 3, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by RJman_
> Baronness Orczy must be spinning in her grave.


Or perhaps she's using spell check.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> At night, unless you judge people, and that I daresay is YOUR own problem and no one else's, black suits are de rigueur


Unless you judge people, during the day, in which case black robes are de rigueur as well 

I confess to owning a solid black suit.


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## Horace (Jan 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Blackadder_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or maybe she's a neologist.

Odelay.

L'Homes Horace.


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by RJman_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, I think Im in a position to make a few terms up as long as everyone understands my meaning which is, after all, the purpose of language.



> quote:Hmm, good point about the black suits. Mayhap depends on which industry or part of the country youre in. Didnt twain say something about anything fashionable taking 5 extra years to reach Ohio





> quote:Another attempted put down reflecting your own snobbery and class insecurity. Anyone who questions you must be from some sort of hinterland. Funny, I seem to remember Twain using apostrophes.


Though I could easily take this as some desire on the poster's part to purposefully misunderstand what I wrote because of some ulterior motive on their part, I would rather take it as an opportunity to explain my meaning. A meaning that was sincere.

I meant "youre" generically and was not insinuating that jcusey was from a backward part of the country. Nor was I insinuating anything about Ohio, whos denizens I am extremely fond of and have enormous respect for, but was merely repeating part of a usage Mark Twain had once written and served to demonstrate my meaning of how a large country can have a uneven spread of a fashion. Thus, the black suit could be played out in one area and novel in another.

Thank you, I am not a snob, nor do I possess any such class insecurity. However, I do admit to being guilty of forgetting that others may not be of a similar sound grounding and that my assumed insensitivity can trigger their own constantly monitored anxieties in this area. I excuse you because you have never met me and doubtless do not have the proper degrees to make such a legal clinical determination about me.

And while we are touching on the subject of psychiatry, though I profess I do not know the theory in full, I have read that pointing out other's minor grammatical shortcomings is a serious form of regression. I only mention it because I hold you in such high esteem, and perhaps this is something you should look into for your own edification.



> quote:They seek him here, they seek him there
> Those roolzies seek him everywhere
> But give him credit, he knows his stuff
> That damned, elusive, Film Noir Buff





> quote:If only. Rather, you're quite prominent. You know _your_ stuff. But please, don't appropriate the sartorial greats to justify your caprices. It's also inconsistent with your self-styled iconoclasm. Baronness Orczy must be spinning in her grave.
> 
> -- l'homme-RJ


Self styled, Iconoclast? Ive merely turned "suggestions" that I am so into something pleasant and not an angry rant, but Im sure you know exactly what Im referring to. All in keeping with an ability to laugh at one's self and hardly a tool of the insecure. Additionally, if the dandies Ive invoked are iconoclasts, then I am too. Otherwise, I am the very letter of the rules they followed.

And, Im sure she would be spinning if only from mirth from my pleasant play on her classic words. Im a bit disappointed here, afterall, for a poster who prides themselves on a puckish form of playfulness, I would have appreciated the same fair handed margins extended to me in return.

I appreciate you giving me a chance to explain myself and I wish you the very best in the new year, my dear L'Homme RJ.

____________________
They seek him here, they seek him there

Those roolzies seek him everywhere

But give him credit, he knows his stuff

That damned, elusive, Film Noir Buff


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## bosthist (Apr 4, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trepidatious is a word (FNB was off by a vowel), albeit a very obscure one, so it isn't a neologism. Usually one would say they are a bit trepid, but isn't a dandy allowed a few rhetorical flourishes?

I should also add that clothing rules are nothing compared to the word and grammar rule folks:

The opening sentence from the link above: "Language sticklers -- people who propose to regulate a language by stipulating which usages are acceptable and which are not -- tend to be hostile to innovations (as well as to informal style and non-standard vernaculars), which they view as a threat to the language and respond to with some combination of dyspepsia, disdain, ridicule, and invective."

Regards,

Charles


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## risto (Apr 11, 2005)

Having taken quite a few days off for Christmas, I just read the whole thread in one bite ... and am exhausted. Enjoyed it quite a bit. But am exhausted.

I have no odd black trousers. And don't intend to get them. There.


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## JRY (Mar 22, 2005)

Gentlemen,

Having read once more this amazingly entertaining and enlightening thread, I've come to a conclusion as regards black: be it pants, jackets, suits, shoes or what have you. 

This may be stating the obvious, but black is a neutral, a severe neutral, but a neutral nonetheless. I would consider white also somewhat severe (but less so than black) as well. Beige or ecru would be, as I see it, a mild neutral, the - stylistically speaking - antipode of black. So, to my eye, the use of black - or any neutral - comes down to delineation, context and resolution. 

Dressing in solid black is, for a guy my size (6'3" 250 lbs.), somewhat intimidating to most people. So, I try to soften up my look with navys, browns, blues, rusts, greys and pastels (pastel shirts, that is). However, others may revel in dressing black, and may look good in doing so. Having said that, for a grey and black houndstooth jacket, it's got to be black shoes and belt with either grey or black trousers. In any event, always remember that black is a neutral and that there are no absolutes. 

Cheers and a very Happy New Year to all!

Regards,

JRY-John


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

At the risk of pedantically bringing the thread back full circle, black trousers should have a satin stripe down the side seams. Lacking that, oxford gray is better.


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## SmartDresser (Jan 10, 2005)

Exactly! Find your own style. Fuss over it, loss sleep over it. Personal style sets you above the rest.



> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## josepidal (Jul 24, 2005)

Only the Sith think in absolutes.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

yesterday my wife and i ate at the victoria casino. our table was at the window faceing the river boat casino it itself. the window was in line with the employees enterance. a steady line of people were going in and out,their coats open because of a warm spell. their shirts and blouses told us of their jobs.there were dealers,securety,cleaners,bussers,wash room attendents,and a few others. but they all had one thing in common.thats right they all wore black pants. now i know the truth, black pants are the universal uniform.

Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2005)

but do you like them though Alex, or did you find it cringeworthy?


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by [email protected]_
> 
> but do you like them though Alex, or did you find it cringeworthy?


yes i cringed.

Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

Why not add the clergy to the list of the black clad uncouth? What nonsense this black bias is.


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

Not if you referee basketball.


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## josepidal (Jul 24, 2005)

Btw, the other day, I saw a trial partner wearing black odd trousers with sharp silver pinstripes, and I thought it looked good. He was wearing the embroidered Philippine formal shirt we call the Barong Tagalog, and Gucci horsebit loafers.

Thoughts on this kind of pinstripe trousers?


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## maxnharry (Dec 3, 2004)

I can't attest to the trousers acceptibility in the PI, but it is uncommon to find pinstriped black odd trousers in the US. Again, if you like them you should wear them


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## Stuttjukken (Jan 14, 2006)

I like black odd trousers, and I have 3-4 of them.

Short and stout/heavyweight busdriver in Bergen, Norway. My favorite clothes are polywool trousers.


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## johnapril (Feb 8, 2006)

I have a pair of black trousers by Armani (runs to hide).


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## floutist (Jan 9, 2006)

I have SEVERAL pairs of black trousers, all by Armani . . . question aswered.


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

No need to yell...

But thank you for ending this discussion with your definitive post.



> quote:_Originally posted by floutist_
> 
> I have SEVERAL pairs of black trousers, all by Armani . . . question aswered.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by floutist_
> *I have SEVERAL pairs of black trousers, all by Armani . . . question aswered.*


But what does your sister think?

*************
RJman. Accept no imitations.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by floutist_
> 
> I have SEVERAL pairs of black trousers, all by Armani . . . question aswered.


Armani, hmmm - sounds Italian eh?


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## floutist (Jan 9, 2006)

My sister likes black.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

My undertaker likes black. [}]

*https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks **​


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## floutist (Jan 9, 2006)

So does mine . . .


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Alexander Kabbaz_
> 
> My undertaker likes black. [}]
> 
> ...


The Real Undertaker


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## Romualdo (Oct 18, 2005)

I thought black trousers were only made for tuxedos!

Trevor L. Furbay
Proprietor

ROMUALDO TAILORING CO.
www.romualdo.com


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

My job at Au Bon Pain requires that all workers should wear black khakis.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by [email protected]_
> 
> but do you like them though Alex, or did you find it cringeworthy?


yes i cringed.

Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

The black scourge rearises!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Black Pants are a wonderful piece of clothing


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by MrRogers_
> 
> Case in point....
> 
> A Tailor, A question for you......I have a black and white houndstooth SB sportcoat that I often wear with black pants and a black turtleneck.....Assuming that I was to follow your advice and not wear black pants at all.....what would you suggest I wear with this sportcoat???????


I would guess the "correct" answer on this forum would be charcoal grey. However I love a pair of black pants or very dark charcoal with black silk turtleneck and a black/white houndstooth, glen plaid or herringbone sport coat. And I have all the above and wear them as often as anything else I use as a sportcoat. I recently bought a black silk shirt that I would add to that mix.

In fact I will reverse the color mix with a black DB blazer, black silk turtleneck and grey slacks. But again the coloring is particularly good for my skin.

Perry


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix
> 
> I used to clean the dumpster at Rax in the mornings. To ensure the grease and filth didn't upset the customers while I was working the drive-through in the afternoon, they had me wear black pants.
> _


_

I suppose if I had had that experience I would have hated black also. Sorry about your early employment history.

Perry_


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## briiian13 (Oct 24, 2005)

Josepidal,

Congratulations on your black pants thread becoming one of AAAC forum's greatest hits.

I for one, like black pants.


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## pkincy (Feb 9, 2006)

On balance it seems that many that hate black do so due to an early job experience or current fear that they will be mistaken as someone in the service or help industries.

And I suspect that many "rules" started out in Olde England with the same class splitting background.

Having been born and educated in the United States and brought up knowing that even if I started out as a parking valet or busboy I could easily end up owning the business I have never had this rather irrational caste driven fear. Nor do I now worry that I will be mistaken for service staff if I do wear black or navy blue. I suppose this simple confidence is not universal. And I regret that. 

I would hope that most of those that don't wear black do it because black doesn't look good on them as opposed to fear that black will lower their class standing. I also hope that those that hate black understand which of the above motivates them to hate it.

I do admit that I own several pair of black pants, a couple of black shirts and two black Canali DB sportcoats, an Oxxford black sportcoat, a Brioni black blazer, and an Oxxford black suit. They all tend to be in a minor way in my regular rotation one way or another.

Threads like this are getting me to experiment more with greys however. And they are quite interesting. Until I read my First "Black is for the Bourgeous" thread I had never really considered grey serously. Now I do.

For that I thank the Naysayers.

Perry


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by pkincy_
> 
> On balance it seems that many that hate black do so due to an early job experience or current fear that they will be mistaken as someone in the service or help industries.
> 
> ...


[:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0][:0]


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I raises it's head again...must be a sign that I should wear black pants today

guit


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I wore a black shirt today, but tan pants.

The black ones I wore on Sunday.


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## Wimsey (Jan 28, 2006)

*Summing up*

Wearing black pants is controversial.


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by pkincy_I suppose if I had had that experience I would have hated black also. Sorry about your early employment history.


What's to be sorry about? I wasn't working to feed my family or to escape starvation; I was working because my parents didn't believe in spoiling their children, and if I wanted to drive around in the evenings and party with my friends, they insisted that I pay for it myself. I have never worked a day in my life except by choice, from my youth until now, but somehow I haven't managed to spend too many days out of work.

I don't wear black pants because doing so is just plain wrong. My father didn't do it, his father didn't do it, and so on. This is something which is apparently as difficult to explain as the value of making your son learn about scrubbing a dumpster. 

----------------------

"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## FlatSix (Feb 23, 2005)

Furthermore, the fact that inappropriate clothing is made by
Canali, Oxxford, or whomever doesn't make it right. You can
call up Huntsman and have them make you a fur-lined pink
pimp coat. They will take your money and deliver the finest fur-lined
pink pimp coat in existence - but if you wear it, you are the guy
wearing the fur-lined pink pimp coat.

I like ostrich shoes, but I don't kid myself that I am doing
anything other than being an ostentatious tosser by wearing
them. The black-pants crowd should have the same honesty.

----------------------


"When you wear something like spats, I think you might as well wear your favorite players jersey bc what youre saying is I want to be powerful like the bear and Im wearing its hide to tap into its power." - Film Noir Buff

"First sense of what "normal" good clothes looked like came from my dad, of course, and from Babar books." - Concordia

" I have a related problem in that I often have to chase people. Leather soles are no good for this kind of work." - Patrick06790


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I love it, black pants should be banned.....why, because waiters wear them?, navy because some other laborer type person wears them...I don't know I think Black Pants can be very nice, very tasteful. I feel sorry for many of you that are so stigmatized by the prospect of wearing something that might break some unwritten rule. Me, I think tomorrow I will wear a black sweater and black pants...I may do a black month.[8D]

guit


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## Where Eagles Dare (Feb 14, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by FlatSix_
> You can call up Huntsman and have them make you a fur-lined pink
> pimp coat. They will take your money and deliver the finest fur-lined
> pink pimp coat in existence


Lightbulb.


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## Zubberah (Sep 29, 2003)

I wore mohair jet black Gianni Versace black pants out clubbing last night with a snazzy 100% silk emerald green and black geometric shaped Versace shirt and let me tell you the girls loved the outfit [8D] (and a few boys too!)  I got 7 phone numbers that night! 

Danny, Sydney


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## Zubberah (Sep 29, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by guitone_
> 
> I love it, black pants should be banned.....why, because waiters wear them?, navy because some other laborer type person wears them...I don't know I think Black Pants can be very nice, very tasteful. I feel sorry for many of you that are so stigmatized by the prospect of wearing something that might break some unwritten rule. Me, I think tomorrow I will wear a black sweater and black pants...I may do a black month.[8D]
> 
> guit


Agreed, I often wear all black head to toe and it looks fantastic on me (never had one negative response from males or females too). Too much black-phobia on this board (maybe insecurities? adherence to ridiculous "rules" - who gives a flying %^%%&^$%^ what is considered "correct" or not. It's simple: if you like it, wear it.

Danny, Sydney


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## MER (Feb 5, 2006)

I think it's more that Charcoal can do everything that black can do but better.

Then when you add the role of black in menswear in the last century, plus how often it shows up on waiters, etc. and people's aversion of black pants becomes quite strong.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

I need to get some more black stuff. It will come in handy when I travel to the Planet of the Yoko Onos.


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