# Allen Edmonds: 1) alternatives, 2) sources



## Lino (Apr 15, 2006)

1) Does Allen Edmonds really offer the best cost/quality in it's price range? Are there no other brands in it's class for quality, functionality and durability? Are there no others to consider (at or below the price of AE)?


2) What are the sources for one to find Allen Edmonds below retial?

Lead me not into Banana Republic, but into a world of sartorial temptation.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Lino_
> 
> 2) What are the sources for one to find Allen Edmonds below retial?


When the new models come out, eBay seller Grape Vine Hill will typically have a flood of the previous year's models new-in-box at roughly half price for "buy-it-now".


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Lino_
> 
> 1) Does Allen Edmonds really offer the best cost/quality in it's price range? Are there no other brands in it's class for quality, functionality and durability? Are there no others to consider (at or below the price of AE)?


At retail, in the USA, no. Allen Edmonds is really the knee of the curve, to borrow the phrase. Probably your closest retail alternative is Alden. About 10-15% more the cost - usually $330-345 at full retail versus $295 for AE. And AE's market reach and supply is large enough that there is a significant market in place. So you can effectively get nearly any AE style (but not model) at 25% off most of the time. So if you need a dress laceup for 25% off or more, there's probably one available. Whether it's the exact model you want is another question.

There are shoes to consider below the price of AE, but they're also below it in quality.



> quote:
> 2) What are the sources for one to find Allen Edmonds below retial?


As noted above, Grapevinehll is good. Although I have a search saved on Ebay that I run, and I typically try to get brand new shoes at below $125. Although I'm not really looking anymore. If you're a 9 to 11.5 medium, there's a decent churn on ebay. Size 9 is especially good, because i think it's the standard "sample" size.

Ebay seller allenedmonds is supposedly the corporate company itself.

Sierratradingpost has a number of models on sale at any given time. usually at $189.95. find a 20% coupon and you can knock it to the $155 range.

The AE outlet stores typically have shoes at various price points between $129 and $220


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

IMO, Aldens are marginally better constructed than AE, but cost enough more to negate any cost/quality benefit. As mentioned, Vineyard Vines will have last years models at approx. 1/2 off and, it seems to me, only those with a severe and uncorrected case of shoephilia will actually know that a given pair of AEs is "last year's model". 

Another route, which I frequently employ, is to go to your local AE store, find the shoe you like, make certain of the size and the last number, then look for that shoe on Ebay... the reason for the last number is that occasionally you will find a similar AE built on the same last, so you will know it will fit you. Fit varies rather dramatically from one last to another in the same ostensible shoe size.

Train your eye! Then train your brain to trust your eye.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

Sierra Trading Post is also a good source for below retail Allen Edmonds. I just bought an AE Concord monk strap from STP a few days ago for $160 delivered. Not too bad. There selection is limited though.

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

I am a fan of the AE factory store (they call it a shoe bank) at Port Washington, WI. They consistently have seconds and discontinued models available for $160 to $200. On one visit to the store, during a tent sale event, I found two first quality, pairs of discontinued models priced at $75 and $79 respectively. They do take orders over the phone and will go to great lengths to find the particular shoes you might be looking for. With the delivery of a special order for a pair of MacNeils in pebble grain calf, my collection of AEs will number 26 pairs, seventeen of which have been bought through the Port Washington based factory store. For my money, AEs represent incredibly good value but, they can certainly be addictive!


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## PennGlock (Mar 14, 2006)

I think Crockett and Jones makes a marginally better shoe than AE. Construction is probably equal, but my eye prefers the details of most C&Js over AEs. 

C&J rebrands their shoes for several stores, and Ive heard of forum members scoring new pairs for around 150. Maybe some can answer where to look. AE will definately be easier to find at that price, though.


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## nerdykarim (Dec 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by PennGlock_
> 
> I think Crockett and Jones makes a marginally better shoe than AE. Construction is probably equal, but my eye prefers the details of most C&Js over AEs.
> 
> C&J rebrands their shoes for several stores, and Ive heard of forum members scoring new pairs for around 150. Maybe some can answer where to look. AE will definately be easier to find at that price, though.


I think the only time anyone has scored a new pair of C&J at $150 was when Grapevine Hill was clearing out Polo C&J's. In my size, the shoes routinely went for upwards of $200 (which is still good) but I was trying to score a pair at less than $175. I think the next best deal is the Grenson Masterpieces at Bennie's at $180.

That being said, I prefer Allen-Edmonds at the 130-150 range (pretty much exclusively from eBay). I think the relatively inexpensive factory recrafting process only adds to the value. I've tried on a couple pairs of C&J at the Polo store and while they did look more stylish, they weren't any more comfortable to my feet. At a time when I'm starting my shoe wardrobe with "classics" such as the black balmoral captoe, the Allen-Edmonds Park Avenue at $130 suits my needs quite well.

Eagle2250: Do you happen to have contact information for the factory store in Port Washington? I'd love to call them and check out their pricing, especially for models that I'd like, but don't turn up on eBay often enough 

...I feel like I'm slowly turning into an Allen-Edmonds fanboy/addict.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by nerdykarim_
> 
> I think the only time anyone has scored a new pair of C&J at $150 was when Grapevine Hill was clearing out Polo C&J's.


With at least one notable exception: not even knowing what I was getting, I bought a pair of new-in-the-box Tom James unlined loafers in a black pebble grain, which turned out to be C&J's hand-grade 8365 loafer, which retails for over $400. My final cost, after shipping, was $20. That's twenty American dollars!

Train your eye! Then train your brain to trust your eye.


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## nerdykarim (Dec 13, 2005)

yowza! that exception is certainly notable.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

On the perennial Alden vs. A-E debate, my new Managing Editor, a strapping, competent young woman, had worked in San Francisco as a shoe repairperson for three years. In her opinion, A-E was hands-down the better shoe than Alden, period. She said she thought A-E workmanship was better and the styling much better. 

I know that a majority of forumites who take an interest in these matters usually concede Alden at least a modest edge over A-E in quality, but the opinion of someone who worked for some years in shoe repair is at least worth considering.

At one time I thought some Faconnable chukkas I had were made by Alden, who had been a vendor for Faconnable. However, I had them examined at the recent Alden trunk show at Carroll & Co., and the Alden rep said they definitely were not made by Alden. He thought they were Italian. They seem much more substantial than the general run of Italian shoes, that's for sure, and I'd give them a slight edge over my many A-Es. Santoni, maybe?

I wonder if a lot of Alden's perceived superiority isn't based on mystique: New England, the Trad thing, the Brooks affiliation and the fact that the Europeans eat them up!

Even if you are not in proximity to an Allen-Edmonds factory outlet, if you are familiar with the product line, they will ship to you. Unfortunately, when I attempted this a few weeks ago, the warehouse fouled up and never shipped the shoes. Fortunately, I had Leighann at the Cabazon outlet follow and I am in high hopes my shoes will be arriving Monday.


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## Gurn Blanston (May 5, 2006)

What about the steel shank vs. airport friendly factor?

I am satisfied with my several AEs but have not tried Aldens. As a runner I go through occasional phases of foot pain and wonder if Aldens might be better for that. They certainly seem to have the edge in actual orthopedic shoes, but what about the regular line?


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## Mike147 (Jan 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Gurn Blanston_
> 
> What about the steel shank vs. airport friendly factor?
> 
> I am satisfied with my several AEs but have not tried Aldens. As a runner I go through occasional phases of foot pain and wonder if Aldens might be better for that. They certainly seem to have the edge in actual orthopedic shoes, but what about the regular line?


In my opinion, the steel shank makes a huge difference for people with foot pain. I must point out that I only wear the Alden Modified last, which is technically 'orthopedic.' However, once I began wearing Alden's, I could no longer wear AE - the plastic / composite (not sure what they use) shank doesn't provide the same level of arch support as the Modified Last.


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> On the perennial Alden vs. A-E debate, my new Managing Editor, a strapping, competent young woman, had worked in San Francisco as a shoe repairperson for three years. In her opinion, A-E was hands-down the better shoe than Alden, period. She said she thought A-E workmanship was better and the styling much better.
> 
> ...


People I've known in the shoe business (one shoe repair shop owner, and a few shoe store managers) felt the opposite of your friend: they opined that Alden was hands down better than AE. As you know, there have been some pretty good debates here over whether one was better than the other, and I've concluded that it's close. I can tell you why I prefer one over the other, but I'm not sure that it means it's meaningfully "better."


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## FMINUS (Jan 9, 2006)

At a discount, (1-$200) I think that AE value is unbeatable.

Signed, F-


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by nerdykarim_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Allen Edmonds Shoe Bank at the Factory
201 East Seven Hills Road
Port Washington, WI 53074

Phone: 262-284-7158 Fax: 262-284-7499

Hope this helps...Eagle


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## nerdykarim (Dec 13, 2005)

helps the shoe collection, hurts the bank account...you know the drill 
ps: thanks!


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by smr_
> 
> As you know, there have been some pretty good debates here over whether one was better than the other, and I've concluded that it's close. I can tell you why I prefer one of the other, but I'm not sure that it means it's meaningfully "better."


Yup. The differences are really pretty minor, seem to vary depending on whom one asks, and often are based on taste rather than quality. Therefore, it's pretty safe to conclude that they're _so close_ that they're just not worth sweating over. So the bottom line is this: purchase the one you like.


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by JLibourel_
> 
> I know that a majority of forumites who take an interest in these matters usually concede Alden at least a modest edge over A-E in quality, but the opinion of someone who worked for some years in shoe repair is at least worth considering.


Concede nothing, Jan. I've handled the Alden's, and I think AE's are better. Hell, I'll take the 360 welt over the breast-to-breast welt.



> quote:
> I wonder if a lot of Alden's perceived superiority isn't based on mystique: New England, the Trad thing, the Brooks affiliation and the fact that the Europeans eat them up!


I've said this again, and again. The brooks affiliation is a big part of it....


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## seok (Feb 20, 2006)

i personally think that Grensons are much more elegant than AEs with more supple leather, and at $180 for the Masterpiece level, it's hard to argue about the price. (www.benniesshoes.com/grenson.htm)


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## Lino (Apr 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by nerdykarim_
> I think the relatively inexpensive factory recrafting process only adds to the value.


What is the "factory recrafting process"? Is this resoling and basic repairs?

Lead me not into Banana Republic, but into a world of sartorial temptation.


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## Lino (Apr 15, 2006)

Let me see if I got this right, the cluster is such:

C&P (which also manufacures for other brands)

AE and Alden (with Alden costing a bit more and both either even or one or other ahead depending on who you talk toâ€”which could be more of a subjective than objective issue)

Grenson Masterpiece line from Bernnie's (though the selection is really slim in my sizeâ€”only a cap-toed blutcher that I would consider).

What about the shoes from Charles Tyrwhitt (some seem to like thier shirts), and Shipton & Heneage Grade line?

Lead me not into Banana Republic, but into a world of sartorial temptation.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Teacher_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm an AE fan but, Alden does give you more color options when it comes to their cordovan leather models...I'm thinking a cigar, revello penny loafer!


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

You can not argue with veriety of lethers and styles that Alden has vs. AE in shell cordovan arena (this is at full retail). In defense of AE, they will make any shoe as a custom order in their two shell selections. For example, if you want a Park Avenue in black shell you can have it for $425+$100 = $525, which is what you end up paying for Alden special orders (could be even less depending on a retailer).

-Ex falso quodlibet-


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

For me, the issue between AE and Alden comes down to breadth of styles. I find that Alden has a greater selection of Trad- acceptable styles, while AE tends to be a bit more 'trendy' or Europena influenced. I find the quality of the AEs beyond criticism. 

I think it's important to make a distinction between style preference and craftsmanship when critiquing the two.


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## cbaer (May 6, 2006)

New to the forum, but wanted to add my two cents.

I own at least 25 pairs of AE's. And as discussed by others before, I purchase most of them in the Port Washington factory "Shoe Bank" at what have often been tremendous prices. 

However, while traveling recently to San Francisco I went in and purchased a pair of Alden cordovans at the store on Sutter Street. $525 at retail. Being a person that has had foot problems over the last two years, I instantly noticed a difference in the Alden shoe. I have definately been won over and have purchased a number of new pairs already. 

I agree with most that the styles are often quite similar, but in my personal experience the Aldens will be my new shoe of choice. Although, I must admit, I am tempted to buy one pair of MTM John Lobb/Cleverley to see if they are worth it.


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## tmack3 (Jan 14, 2006)

if alden made a few more "sleek" or modern styles, they would have a lifelong customer. i have one pair, they are fantastic. the styles are just too boring for me


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## cbaer (May 6, 2006)

tmack3 - you might try looking at Alden-of-Carmel. From what I understand, he has some "custom" shoes made by Alden that are a little bit different. Although I must admit they are still pretty traditional.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I am about an hours drive from the store in Port Washington and have still not made it down there! One of these weekends, I need to pick up a few pairs of dress shoes...

Brian


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

You chaps in the States are indeed fortunate. Being in Singapore I end up paying full retail (unless purchased from Ebay but the $30 or so shipping adds to the cost).

Own several pairs of AE Leeds, Mcneils and Park Ave. The Leeds and Mcneil wear great but the Park Ave., over time, tend to stretch (slight diagonal bulge over the vamp). Same with my Alden bluchers. Don't know if its the humidity but at the prices asked things should be better.

Now to bung the old spanner in the works - my Florsheim Imperial Kenmoors (the USA made ones with the metal v-plate in the heel) on the other hand wear and fit beautifully even after over a decade of use. Got a NOS pair of Custom Grade Florsheims (from the 50s,60s) with spade soles for $84 on Ebay. Fit and finish are first rate and in my opinion better than my AEs and Aldens.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by shoefetish_
> 
> [. . .]my Florsheim Imperial Kenmoors (the USA made ones with the metal v-plate in the heel) on the other hand wear and fit beautifully even after over a decade of use. Got a NOS pair of Custom Grade Florsheims (from the 50s,60s) with spade soles for $84 on Ebay. Fit and finish are first rate and in my opinion better than my AEs and Aldens.


Now hold the phones! I'm not an expert on too many things, but I _DO_ consider myself and expert on the Kenmoor. I have photos of Kenmoors in olive, Kenmoors in brown shell cordovan, Kenmoors in _natural tanned color_ (almost a beige)..._but with a spade sole?!?!?!_ Please, we *MUST* have photos of this!!

As for your assessment of their longevity: yes, my many pairs of Kenmoors last longer than my other shoes. This is as true of my American made ones as it is of my Indian made ones. The soles, in particular, wear like steel! Love 'em to death. I can't yet compare them to Rendenbach soles (though I just won a pair of AE Cambridges on eBay...yet to receive), but I'd love to do so!

(*Lino*: Sorry for the digression!)


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

Here you go Teacher. Don't know why I can't get the images to appear bigger. Please help and I'll repost.







Any chance of viewing pics of the olive green shoes?
Have been trying for ages to get my hands on a pair. I also know there are grey and blue models out there but unable to find any for sale.


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by shoefetish_
> 
> Here you go Teacher. Don't know why I can't get the images to appear bigger. Please help and I'll repost.
> 
> ...


Here you go, bigger pictures:

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## shoefetish (Jan 15, 2006)

Many thanks odoreater. How is it done please so I don't have to bug anyone else in future?


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## odoreater (Feb 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by shoefetish_
> 
> Many thanks odoreater. How is it done please so I don't have to bug anyone else in future?


Imageshack gives you both the regular pictures and thumbnails. You posted the links to the thumbnails. I just removed the .th.jpg at the end of each file and changed it to just .jpg

_I fought the law and the law won._​


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by odoreater_
> 
> Here you go, bigger pictures:


The soles on those are so beautiful, I wouldn't be able to bring myself to walk on them! [:0]


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## super100 (May 16, 2006)

Lino

I have happily owned several pairs of Dack's shoes. My favourite is the Dufferin which is very similar to the AE McNeil. It is double soled, sturdy and might just outlast me (with a few re-craftings). I think that Dack's is now owned by Church's but priced more reasonably.

Used to be a great deal when the CDN dollar was 63 cents, less so now at 90+ cents.

If you are interested, here is their link: https://www.dacks-shoes.com/


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## kbuzz (Apr 2, 2005)

*grensons at bennies*



seok said:


> i personally think that Grensons are much more elegant than AEs with more supple leather, and at $180 for the Masterpiece level, it's hard to argue about the price. (www.benniesshoes.com/grenson.htm)


are the masterpieces listed on the site. Cant seem to find them. Or is this a "you should call thing"


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

kbuzz said:


> are the masterpieces listed on the site. Cant seem to find them. Or is this a "you should call thing"


Sold out long ago (this is an old thread). Masterpieces are no longer made.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

arkirshner said:


> Sold out long ago (this is an old thread). Masterpieces are no longer made.


I had heard there were still a few pairs batting around, but this was a while ago. Might be worth a phone call on the off chance.


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## steveincharlotte (Aug 24, 2006)

Mike147 said:


> In my opinion, the steel shank makes a huge difference for people with foot pain. I must point out that I only wear the Alden Modified last, which is technically 'orthopedic.' However, once I began wearing Alden's, I could no longer wear AE - the plastic / composite (not sure what they use) shank doesn't provide the same level of arch support as the Modified Last.


I'd like to understand more about this. AE's 5 last is quite comfortable. But I bought Alden's 904 suede wingtip and the arch isn't high enough. I just can't wear it -- feels like a flat houseslipper, and the pain sets in.

steve


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## steveincharlotte (Aug 24, 2006)

nerdykarim said:


> That being said, I prefer Allen-Edmonds at the 130-150 range (pretty much exclusively from eBay).


I scored big on eBay this week. Two new pair of AE Park Avenue 10C in two separate auctions, one burgundy and one black, for just over $100 each. Luck smiles ever so often.

steve


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

arkirshner said:


> Masterpieces are no longer made.


They are still made, for Paul Stuart under the Stuart's Choice label.


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

Lino, since you live in NYC, your cheapest source for new A-E will be Century 21 Department Store downtown. My three pair of A-E were C-21 pickups in NYC and NJ for $89 each. The selection will not be large and you might have to be patient.


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## Sgt_Strider (Oct 10, 2006)

While we're at it, can you guys help me track down a new black AE Park Avenue size 8.5 for less than retail price?


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

Sgt_Strider said:


> While we're at it, can you guys help me track down a new black AE Park Avenue size 8.5 for less than retail price?


The best deal on first quality black AE PA, is $199 at Nordstrom sales, unfortunately those sales are usually in summer. In the meantime, outlets for seconds and ebay - also, you may find some discounts on firsts - about 10% if you check various retailers - for example shoemart in January.


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## Sgt_Strider (Oct 10, 2006)

hreljan said:


> The best deal on first quality black AE PA, is $199 at Nordstrom sales, unfortunately those sales are usually in summer. In the meantime, outlets for seconds and ebay - also, you may find some discounts on firsts - about 10% if you check various retailers - for example shoemart in January.


What do you mean by first and seconds?


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

Sgt_Strider said:


> What do you mean by first and seconds?


Seconds are slightly imperfect but deeply discounted items. Usually these imperfections are a minor cosmetic color blemish or something similar.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Bob Loblaw said:


> Seconds are slightly imperfect but deeply discounted items. Usually these imperfections are a minor cosmetic color blemish or something similar.


True. In fact, many forumites have reported searching high and low for the defects and either finding something so miniscule that they'd never think to complain about it anyway or finding nothing at all. It seems that AE's really ugly seconds never leave the factory.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

shoefetish said:


> Here you go Teacher. Don't know why I can't get the images to appear bigger. Please help and I'll repost.
> 
> Any chance of viewing pics of the olive green shoes?
> Have been trying for ages to get my hands on a pair. I also know there are grey and blue models out there but unable to find any for sale.


I never did comment on this, but those shoes are _outstanding_!


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## Sgt_Strider (Oct 10, 2006)

hreljan said:


> The best deal on first quality black AE PA, is $199 at Nordstrom sales, unfortunately those sales are usually in summer. In the meantime, outlets for seconds and ebay - also, you may find some discounts on firsts - about 10% if you check various retailers - for example shoemart in January.


Unfortunately there isn't a Nordstrom in my area. I will have no choice but to order online. I guess if I want to order a pair of PAs then I will have no choice but to get from Nordstrom?


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

Sgt_Strider said:


> Unfortunately there isn't a Nordstrom in my area. I will have no choice but to order online. I guess if I want to order a pair of PAs then I will have no choice but to get from Nordstrom?


There are a ton of online stores selling park avenues.... but they're all about the same - $305 plus shipping.


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## khakuda (Oct 20, 2006)

*PA's at shoebuy.com*

I may be wrong, but from my experience, it's quite hard to find a deal better than Allen Edmonds. You can pick up a pair on ebay from about $150 and Nordstrom's seems to throw some on sale in the summer for $199. Nothing I've found comes close to the quality at that price.

I really enjoyed 1990s Church's, but their new shoe quality is no longer as good as many have mentioned and prices have gone through the roof. In the 90s, the Sunday New York Times used to have 2 or 3 $350 Churchs listed on sale every Sunday for $160-$175...about the same as the sale price as list $225 AEs back then. Churchs would put the $500 ones on sale for $250. Now the $350 shoes are $500 and the $500 ones are $750, with few sales, yet the AEs can be picked up for less than $200 on sale 10 years later.

English shoes hold a special place in my heart, as they saved me from the foot mangling Dexters I wore in my youth, but at current prices, the AEs make the most sense. I can't justify double the price for C&Js, even though they are beautiful. With so many US companies complaining that they can't compete internationally with low cost labor, you wonder how AE does it. In any case, it's cool to be able to buy a such a high quality American product at a great value. I wish more of our companies produced superior products at good value. It's nice to know that in a small way I'm not contributing to the huge trade deficit and I'm supporting American craft jobs.

I just went to shoebuy.com and used a 15% off code and the Park Avenue's came to $250.71. I picked up a pair at Nordstrom a couple months ago for $199, but with tax and shipping it totalled about $222, so shoebuy.com isn't too bad if you can't wait for an ebay deal or Nordstroms.


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## Sgt_Strider (Oct 10, 2006)

khakuda said:


> I may be wrong, but from my experience, it's quite hard to find a deal better than Allen Edmonds. You can pick up a pair on ebay from about $150 and Nordstrom's seems to throw some on sale in the summer for $199. Nothing I've found comes close to the quality at that price.
> 
> I really enjoyed 1990s Church's, but their new shoe quality is no longer as good as many have mentioned and prices have gone through the roof. In the 90s, the Sunday New York Times used to have 2 or 3 $350 Churchs listed on sale every Sunday for $160-$175...about the same as the sale price as list $225 AEs back then. Churchs would put the $500 ones on sale for $250. Now the $350 shoes are $500 and the $500 ones are $750, with few sales, yet the AEs can be picked up for less than $200 on sale 10 years later.
> 
> ...


What's the coupon code and is shoebuy.com a legitimate site to deal with?


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Shoebuy is legit. For current coupons, check out sites like dealcatcher.com and xpbargains.com. Dealcatcher has one listed for 15 percent off at shoebuy, plus free shipping: ENTERTAIN05. (Haven't tried it, so can't vouch for the code.)


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