# A Proper Patch Pocket Navy Blue Blazer or Why Brooks should carry the "Mogambo"



## TRADitional (Feb 7, 2008)

It is becoming increasingly difficult for me to find a properly cut three patch pocket navy blazer for warmer weather (in hopsack or fine wool) or even for fall and winter wear (in good quality English flannel) for that matter.

I own an older Brooks blazer cut in mid-weight navy blue flannel in a three button sack model with three patch pockets. It has smart three inch lapels. The two lower pockets are cut large, piped and with flaps. The breast patch pocket is nicely squared with a diameter of 5 1/4 inches and a length of 5 1/2 inches (including piping) that sits high on the chest. The sleeves have two buttons neatly spaced near the cuff. The ancient brass buttons have a lovely patina. This splendid relic is the standard by which I judge all others.

In the warmest weather I depend on a vintage, yellowed at the cuffs, once bone-colored linen Abercrombie and Fitch three-patch pocket jacket cut in a sack model with slightly narrower lapels than the Brooks and open, unpiped pockets. The thick, "moon glow" buttons are a favorite. It dates from the early 1960's and I still wonder who cut Abercrombie's jackets for them then.

Regrettably, in most newer models, the third patch at the breast (or the first depending on your point of view) is absent and when present is usually cut too small and rather like a capital "U" than a square. Also, like most things, the drape of the cloth and the quality of the buttons are not what they once were.

Both Press and Brooks offer three-patch pocket blazers for warmer weather. Sadly, Brooks insists on abandoning a sack model in the three-patch and "modernizes" its 2008 offering by cutting it in their more fitted "Regent" model with open lower pockets w/o flaps or piping and exchanging traditional brass buttons for odd pewter colored ones. The breast pocket on the Press model is disproportionately small and I consider the quality of the cloth below par and the tartan lining too thick for the hottest summer weather (in their warm weather model).

I don't know whether the Andover Shop offers a three-patch pocket navy blazer off the rack each season. I should telephone. In the meantime, I wonder if anyone has some advice on where I should look for this once ubiquitous now scarce blazer? Also, if I choose to simply have my Brooks blazer admirably copied whom should I turn to? I would especially appreciate any comments about Mr. Winston's copying skills at his late father's shop known forever as new Chipp.

Finally, I think I found a good example of what I'm looking for in cloth and cut only a couple of nights ago. The blazer the man wore was cut with a very soft drape, with large brass buttons and was modeled by no less than a Hollywood movie star in a feature film. The film was "Mogambo" (1953) and the actor was Clark Gable. The blazer and its model were so well proportioned that Gable wore it to a formal supper where the rest of the men were in dinner jackets. Even so, he managed to look equally elegant and charm Grace Kelly away from her husband. I like to believe the blazer was Gable's own from Brooks where he often ordered his clothes. I only wish I could stroll into the Madison Avenue shop today and get Clark Gable's blazer in the "Mogambo" cut please with three patch pockets. After all, shouldn't a sensible well-made blazer look equally right on a Saturday afternoon in town or at a black tie supper during a big game shoot in Kenya? That was a rhetorical question.

All the Best,

TRADitional


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

O'Connell's indicated to me that they could most likely have one made up and it would fall in the $400's or $500's.


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

TRADDIE old bean, I feel I know thee. At a minimum I feel I know the experience you share--head hanging and shaking slowly from side to side as you ponder your options for replacing these two garments. You've expressed your situation in an engaging manner and I, for one, eagerly look to further reports from you in what I hope will be an ongoing narrative about your search for the perfect blazer.

You don't mention where you live, so that, of course, may be a constraining factor in your search. I expect someone may point you in the direction of Izzie's (I think it is, in NY) and, from talking with one of the gentlemen at Ben Silver I am pretty confident that they could have something made for you that would be equivalent. It will be pricey though.

Wish you could post a couple of pictures of these jackets. Would be fun to see.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Since you are obviously into the details and don't seem to be concerned about price, I would contact Cable Car Clothier in San Fran and see what they have. They seem to get a lot of their Southwick stuff (event tweed suits) made up with patch pockets. They might have something.

If not, I would consider having one made by Chipp II in New York. I have never used them, but have drooled over the stuff that Phil has commissioned. I think Chipp would get the details right.

Incidentally, Brooks still does the blazer you are referring to, but it is only in the boys department.


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

No doubt Paul at Chipp could copy the coat perfectly. I recently took delivery on 2 shetland tweed sportcoats that I had modeled on a 1960 Brooks tweed sack. His cutter took my BB coat and went into the cutting room for a good 45 minutes with it. He got everything from the overall shape and style to the way the shoulders are attached identical for me. I literally cannot feel or see the difference between the 1960 tweed sack and the 2 new shetland coats. I will post comparison pics when I have some time. Cost will be roughly $1250-$1700 depending on fabric.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

wow, that's sick!


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## tntele (Apr 12, 2007)

I also am looking for a blazer like this. I was interested in the J.Press offering w/ blackwatch lining, but really want a true "summer" blazer. Possibly hopsack with 1/3 lining. Somebody has got to know a source...


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

H. Freeman MTM should be able to provide this. They have a sack model and can certainly do as many patch pockets as the buyer cares to specify.


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## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

Phil said:


> No doubt Paul at Chipp could copy the coat perfectly. I recently took delivery on 2 shetland tweed sportcoats that I had modeled on a 1960 Brooks tweed sack. His cutter took my BB coat and went into the cutting room for a good 45 minutes with it. He got everything from the overall shape and style to the way the shoulders are attached identical for me. I literally cannot feel or see the difference between the 1960 tweed sack and the 2 new shetland coats. I will post comparison pics when I have some time. Cost will be roughly $1250-$1700 depending on fabric.


I entirely agree-Paul Winston is superb!!!!


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## TRADitional (Feb 7, 2008)

*Mogambo Lives*

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for all of your thoughtful and helpful replies to my post. I appreciate it and I also think it may be time to visit Mr. Winston.

I will try to post a picture of my old Brooks jacket. I would appreciate having a look at some of Chipp's recent work especially some comparison snaps of the shop's copying efforts of Brooks classics.

I look forward to posting a few more questions and comments in the days ahead.

As an aside, I wonder if anyone has had any experience with J. Press custom at the Manhattan shop? I am keeping hope alive.

All the Best,

TRADitional


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## TRADitional (Feb 7, 2008)

*Mogambo Lives*

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for all of your thoughtful and helpful replies to my post. I appreciate it and I also think it may be time to visit Mr. Winston.

I will try to post a picture of my old Brooks jacket. I would appreciate having a look at some of Chipp's recent work especially some comparison snaps of the shop's copying efforts of Brooks classics.

I look forward to posting a few more questions and comments in the days ahead.

As an aside, I wonder if anyone has had any experience with J. Press custom at the Manhattan shop? I am keeping hope alive.

All the Best,

TRADitional


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

I'd love to see a picture TRADitional.
I can't picture a non "U" shaped breast pocket in my head.
Both My BB blue blazers are 3 patch pockets, which I've decided much prefer.
In my mind they seem less businessmany, I don't look like every other guy in gray flannels and a blue blazer at the airport.


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

For comparison sake:

Brooks tweed sack sportcoat, manufactured in 1960:










Chipp, manufactured in 2008:










Suppose you can tell I like red and blue repp ties.


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

FWIW, Brooks could probably do one in the Select special order program. $400-500 for Brooksease fabric, probably in the $700+ range for something nicer. The only thing I'm not sure about is the patch breast pocket, but it's probably something that could be done. There are options that don't show up on the in-store Select order form, such as ticket pockets and peak lapels, that they are nonetheless able to do.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Is this what you mean?


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## enecks (Apr 25, 2007)

I took it from the OP's OP that he wanted some kind of breast patch pocket with squared off corners, and I can't recall ever having seen an example of that.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Whoops, my bad, I thought he was looking for the rounded edges. I've never seen that either.


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## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

Phil said:


> For comparison sake:
> 
> Brooks tweed sack sportcoat, manufactured in 1960:
> 
> ...


Phil: The top one looks just like one that Chipp made me in 1982-and I wore it today.


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## TRADitional (Feb 7, 2008)

*Peculiarities of Proper Patch Pockets or Its Hip to be Square*

Gentlemen:

First, I would like to thank Phil for posting snaps of his tweeds. It looks as though Chipp has admirably copied the earlier Brooks jacket. This is encouraging. I, too, like a simple repp tie with tweeds. I tend to prefer my ties cut to a 3 1/8 inch width to suit my preference for narrower jacket lapels.

This weekend, I will see about getting a snap up of my old Brooks blazer with emphasis on the breast pocket. I also have a 3-patch pocketed Brooks tweed jacket (1956)- the lone survivor from a three-piece country suit - which may be an even better example of my preference in pockets. In this case, a picture may indeed be worth a thousand words.

The bottom edges of the pocket I prefer are slightly rounded at the corners but with a very subtle, gentle curve to the piping. The sides of the pocket hold a long vertical line with approx. 1/2 and inch of piping or less forming the discreet curve at its edges. To the eye, the pocket appears balanced and rather squared off taking on the appearance of a piped box instead of the pronounced curve of a deep "U".

After more careful measurement, I note my older and favorite Brooks blazer has a breast patch pocket measuring 5 inches across the top opening by 5 3/8 top to bottom including piping. A well-balanced pocket. A later Brooks three-patch model, also cut in flannel, has a breast patch pocket measuring 5 X 5 7/8 including piping. The bottom corners of the pocket have a more pronounced curve as the pocket deepens. It is less appealing to me.

Possibly the best example I own of a square, rather masculine cut breast patch pocket is found on the chest of my Brooks tweed jacket (1956). The pocket measures 5 1/4 by 6 inches. Even though the pocket is deeper than the later Brooks flannel blazer I mentioned above, because of the sublime execution of the piped bottom edges, it deceptively appears to be a discreetly piped tweed box sitting on my left chest. The only way to have this sort of execution duplicated is to have the original carefully copied down to piping width. Until then, I'll continue to treat my relics with the care one might offer to the Shroud of Turin.

I appreciate everyone's indulgence with my idiosyncratic commentary on proper patch pockets.

All the Best,

TRADitional


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

One question: By "piping," do you mean topstitching? Or is your blazer actually piped in a different color?

While I'm fairly sure Brooks would be able to make you a 3-patch sack jacket, specifying the shape and size of the patch is probably more than they could handle. You may have to go bespoke for this one.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

https://imageshack.us


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## TRADitional (Feb 7, 2008)

*PARDON MY POCKETS*

Thanks for the b/w snap of President Truman sporting a very square patch pocket on the breast of his jacket. It is just visible but makes the point nicely. I wonder if the late President was wearing a Brooks or Rogers Peet suit that November day?

No matter, this only broadens the appropriateness and versatility of the three patch jacket to include those occassions when one must grant a Presidental pardon. Perhaps Jerry Ford sported a bold, boxy Brooks patch when he sent his forgiving note to San Clemente. Of course, I would feel better if the snap were of Dean Acheson in patch pockets. That's a seal of approval.

In fact, I'm not wild about Harry. President Truman did not have the best reputation for his style and dress. No less than Life magazine carried a critical article on that very subject. Moreover, he had the rather unfortunate place in Presidential sartorial history of coming after that ideal of waspy panache, FDR, and was promptly followed into the White House by his less imaginative, buttoned-up but very correct successor, Dwight Eisenhower- whose Presidential wardrobe both while at Columbia and in the White House came out of Brooks workrooms. Incidentally, Eleanor often shopped for Franklin at Rogers Peet.

As an aside, I do mean topstitching around the pockets when I say piping.

Happy Days Are Here Again!

TRADitional


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## Orgetorix (May 20, 2005)

Just a final note: I did confirm today that Brooks are able to do a three-patch-pocket blazer in the Select special order program. Unfortunately, specifying the shape or size of the pocket is beyond what the program can handle.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

*Three-Button Regent Fit Blazer/Patch pockets*

This just in from "The Bretheren"
Summer weight, Loro Pianna fabric, 1/2 lined with rep stripe silk. I'm impressed

https://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCa...t_Id=1306442&Parent_Id=217&default_color=Navy

Woops, forgot I'm in the trad area. Regent cut may not please Mr TRADitional.


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## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Literide said:


> Woops, forgot I'm in the trad area. Regent cut may not please Mr TRADitional.


High-roll 3B? No, thanks. I'd rather wear a 2B.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Well Traditional if you wanted a 44L you would be in business. I was offering one to History Doc the other day but it seems he wants an Oxxford.(who can blame him?) the one I offered is a BB in three season fabric,sack, 3 button rolled to two and three patch pockets..Makers model with sheep motif buttons. Interested?? 45.00 shipped


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## ROI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Not the shade I envision when some mentions a "blue blazer."*



Patrick06790 said:


> Is this what you mean?


Currently under construction in Montreal: A few weeks ago, I ordered a Samuelsohn navy blazer fitting your description. Its ETA is around Memorial Day. Problem: Samuelsohn's assortment of stock blazer buttons sucks. So, I ordered the sleeves left open (They insist on attaching the front buttons.) and a set of char brown horn suit buttons. You can't have too many spare buttons in your box. The task now is to find a set of blazer buttons that will justify adding 10 or 20 percent to the cost of the coat. I've been husbanding a set of Ben Silver college buttons since...well, since the Class of 1977 graduated. They are the dead gilt variety (no enamel) and probably the very first set bearing the correct motif. The original set had a comical error in its rendition of the college seal. I've been kicking myself ever since returning them to Ben. "Give me another stamp. The airplane is upside down on this one." I've been planning to roll them out for my 50th reunion.

A couple days ago I picked up one of these digital cameras so that I will be able to visually document some of the preposterous claims I make every season about my special order exploits. As much as I enjoy the sound of my own voice talking about clothes, I can imagine many of you would trade a thousand of my words for a picture. I'm on page 620 of the first volume of the manual and project being prepared for my first shots about the time a superior technology is introduced.
[/quote]


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Anybody grab that hefty hopsack offered by Press a couple of winters ago? Three open patch pockets; soft, sloping shoulder.


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## ROI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Samuelsohn's Crest Pocket*

Here's the crest pocket on an off-white linen coat Samuelsohn made for me last summer.

https://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20080511crestpocketlinewb8.jpg

The navy blazer I ordered this year will be made in the same model.


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

ROI - What jacket model did you go for with Samuelsohn, if you don't mind sharing. Thanks.


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## ROI (Aug 1, 2004)

*Talbot*



JDDY said:


> ROI - What jacket model did you go for with Samuelsohn, if you don't mind sharing. Thanks.


I use Talbot as the template for the shape of the shoulder, lapel, etc., but apply the styling cues of a classic trad coat. I put a 5/16" welt on the seams all around, as is visible on the pocket and lapel in the photo, above. Hook vent. Patch and flap lower pockets and crest breast pocket. Three/eighths lining. Undarted. Samuelsohn's formula to attain a 3-on-2 lapel is to order a two button-front with a "tip-over" third button-hole. You may recognize the Samuelsohn terminology from Ben Silver's catalogue descriptions.

The Talbot shoulder is a padless shirt-sleeve with a slight Neapolitan fullness at the sleevehead that emphasizes the softness. The chest is very lightly constructed, and the lapel has a high enough gorge and typically trad profile.

I've used the detailing on tweed coats as well as the linen, a seersucker suit, and, now, a blazer. I've also used the Talbot body with different details on suits.


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