# Black Tie without a Tux



## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

I just found out that an event I committed to quite a while ago is black tie. It's now less than a week away, I don't own a tux, and I'm trying work up a gameplan.

Instead of trying to get a (probably) poor fitting rental at the last minute, I'm thinking of wearing the following:

Black, slim, two-button suit that fits well
Semi-spread collar white shirt with french cuffs
Black tie
Silver tie bar
White pocket square
Black socks
Black shoes

I'm a fairly young guy, I won't be the center of attention at any point, and am hoping I can get away with this. Any thoughts? Ideas on how I can maybe dress it up a little more?


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## alphadelta (Oct 2, 2007)

Black tie traditionalists will not agree with me on this. I only attend one or two "black tie" events per year. I wear a black (with a subtle hint of bird's eye) double breasted suit, white shirt, black long tie and an interesting pocket square. I get a lot of complements on the look -- probably since it is "black tie" and I look different the the rest of the penguins. But this is Denver and not London or New York.

AD


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

Mr Tuxedo has used jackets on sale for $45



It's probably crap, but given that you've waited till the last minute, it's a good option. You can wear it for New Years Eve & maybe a couple of other things and you'll own your own tux.:idea:


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

What you can "get away with" depends on the event.

Reactions may range from people having no clue you're doing anything "wrong" to you not getting let in.

Since you only found out it was black tie recently, hopefully they're forgiving (unless this information was posted for a long time).


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

If you're fairly young you'll be going to several more in the coming years. You could probably hit JAB for an under $200 SBPL jacket https://www.josbank.com/IWCatProduc...d=1&Section_Id=6000&pcount=&Product_Id=550221
and pants for $79 and hope to get it altered in time.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm fairly confident that I won't be given the bum's rush just because I'm not wearing a bowtie and satin lapels. I'm just hoping I can avoid renting or buying something that will be cheap or look like crap, but will be "proper" black tie.

To give a little more background, a friend is being honored for some local charity and I was asked to attend and sit at one of the tables purchased by the family. I was never sent a formal invite, it was all just verbal, so I had no clue it was black tie until one of the other guests casually mentioned it to me. I suppose most attendees would have received some sort of invite or notice regarding the attire for the evening.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

It's rare for there to not be a few guys wearing black suits at a typical black tie affair. Not only that but there will probably be one or two wearing long ties with their tuxedos. Just don't try to make your suit look like a tuxedo. Wear a long solid black tie and you should be just fine. Heck, if your suit is trim and fits you well, you will probably look better than some of the guys in ill fitting tuxedos.

Cruiser


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I've always taken it as a given that, when circumstances dictate, a man can get away with wearing a dark suit, conservatively accessorized (white d.c. shirt, etc.) in lieu of a tux. I would probably choose a dark-gray rather than a black tie, but otherwise your outfit sounds fine to me.


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

It won't by any means be "proper" black tie, but it should be fine.

If you're concerned - have a talk with the person organising the event about what they would recommend.

Also, be wary of information from other guests. I don't know who this was, but many people have skewed ideas of concepts such as "black tie" or "semi-formal" and they might be using the term in a misleading or incorrect way.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Is it possible . . .*

. . . to just call the person who invited you, explain that you just heard that the event is black tie, and ask whether that is "black tie optional" or not? Guessing is not good form, and you will, I assume from your OP, be sitting with that person's group. It seems to me that you should follow what that person wants, since you are his guest.

If you are assured that the event was announced as "black tie optional" you're entirely off the hook, and the outfit you have described will be fine. If that is not the case, and the event was announced as strictly black tie, then I'm afraid that you will have to hire a tux and accessories. You can probably get away with highly polishing your own shoes.

Buck up! Tuxedos from rental sources are not uniformly horrible. Some places, like Folchi's there in Cincinnati, carry several fairly good brands and can fit them respectably for you. Will that be ideal? Maybe not, but you'd better get crackin' if you want to give whomever you deal with a chance to do a decent job for you.

Then give some thought to obtaining a moderately priced dinner suit and the "go-withs" so that you won't be caught in this agonizing dilemma ever again:icon_smile_wink:


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

It's too bad to miss out on a chance to wear back tie. But, in cases like this when a dinner suit is not avaialble, your nicest 1st-interview rig with conservative tie (what you describe sounds fine) will be OK. 

You could put together a correct blck tie rig from the cut-rate suppliers (like JAB) but time seems a bit short for that.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

I wouldn't wear a tie bar with black tie. It's a little GQ/Mad Men already--don't push it.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

If you don't have black tie, don't go. That spares the host the trouble of letting you in.


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

If you're not going to get a dinner jacket, then I'd say at least wear a bow tie and definitely lose the tie bar.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Jake1990 said:


> If you're not going to get a dinner jacket, then I'd say at least wear a bow tie and definitely lose the tie bar.


I go along with losing the tie bar, but I wouldn't wear a bow tie with a suit to a black tie affair. A suit isn't a tuxedo. At the risk of starting another round of _GQ_ bashing, let me quote what they say on this subject.

_"Don't try to fool people by wearing a bow tie with your black suit. Go with a straight black tie instead--satin or silk, no patterns or prints."_

As or the suit itself, _GQ_ says that it should be perfectly tailored and solid black, no prints or patterns. Now I guess the _GQ_ bashing can begin. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## JibranK (May 28, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> I go along with losing the tie bar, but I wouldn't wear a bow tie with a suit to a black tie affair. A suit isn't a tuxedo. At the risk of starting another round of _GQ_ bashing, let me quote what they say on this subject.
> 
> _"Don't try to fool people by wearing a bow tie with your black suit. Go with a straight black tie instead--satin or silk, no patterns or prints."_
> 
> ...


I think that advice is pretty sound.


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## Jake1990 (Jan 5, 2009)

I just reason that you can mistake a black suit for a dinner jacket, but a bow tie is distinct from a long tie and to wear the latter would be to very obviously depart from black tie, and if everyone else is wearing classic black tie (unlikely I know) then it would look really out of place.


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

*The 'black tie' rule*

Whatever you do, do not wear a long black tie and a white shirt - you will look like a funeral director.

Dress 'requirements' like 'black tie' exist to make guests more comfortable by taking the worry away from what to wear. 'Black tie' is a code identifying the nature of the event as much as it is a description of what to wear. It would be perfectly acceptable to wear an appropriate military uniform or national costume or clerical dress at a 'black tie' event.

If you have not got 'black tie' wear your best outfit, but do not pretend it is black tie or make it look as if you are pretending it is black tie (that's why it is better to wear a patterned shirt and coloured tie).


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## Cardcaptor Charlie (Jul 7, 2008)

Trimmer said:


> Whatever you do, do not wear a long black tie and a white shirt - you will look like a funeral director.


+1

A mistake many make.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

This is the model that _GQ_ used to illustrate how to dress if you have no choice but to wear a suit to a black tie affair.










Cruiser


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> _"Don't try to fool people by wearing a bow tie with your black suit. Go with a straight black tie instead--satin or silk, no patterns or prints."_
> 
> As or the suit itself, _GQ_ says that it should be perfectly tailored and solid black, no prints or patterns.





Cruiser said:


> This is the model that _GQ_ used to illustrate how to dress if you have no choice but to wear a suit to a black tie affair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you want to look like the maitre d' h.


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## Drogue (Mar 24, 2009)

sko said:


> I just found out that an event I committed to quite a while ago is black tie. It's now less than a week away, I don't own a tux, and I'm trying work up a gameplan.
> 
> Instead of trying to get a (probably) poor fitting rental at the last minute, I'm thinking of wearing the following:
> 
> ...


Depends on the event. For something "black tie preferred", there's likely to be other people who don't bother hiring getting a DJ and go in a suit. However at the vast majority of black tie events I've been to (mostly a young crowd - I'm 24) almost everybody has been wearning a DJ and bow tie, and those that don't stuck out like a sore thumb.

Poor fitting is one thing. Inappropriate is quite another. Whether it's inappropriate depends on the type of black tie event.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

It appears that everyone who is treating the wearing of the suit as the beginning of end times is from the UK, while those who are more tolerant (with one notable exception) are from the U.S.. Since the OP is from Ohio I think he would be on solid ground by listening to his fellow countrymen who are likely much more in tune with the cultural norms in middle America than are the guys across the pond. Just a thought. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## Trimmer (Nov 2, 2005)

Cruiser said:


> Since the OP is from Ohio I think he would be on solid ground by listening to his fellow countrymen . . .
> 
> Cruiser


You're probably right.


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## Portly_polar_bear (Oct 15, 2008)

By wearing a black suit and white shirt you're in line with the general principal of black tie -- simple and elegant. So in the absence of a DJ I would be happy wearing such.

As for the tie, as others have said you risk looking like a funeral director/waiter or, worse, as you're making an effort to stand out instead of fit in (the latter is in small part an aim of black tie).

I'd go for a black bow tie myself, but Cruiser's comment about local culture is a good one -- I'm in the UK. At most black tie events I attend the vast majority will be in a dinner jacket or Highland dress, a few in a black suit with a bow tie and (maybe) one in a lounge suit and 4-in-hand. I only notice the former if I'm stood talking to them, the latter can be seen from across the room.

However, at the end of the day if you've made some sort of effort then you've fulfilled your obligations to the host and nobody is going to think badly of you.

As an aside, I have a friend whose _only_ suit is a DJ, on the basis that most of the occasions for which he needs a suit are black tie dinners. When he needs a lounge suit he wears it with a normal tie. The jacket isn't all that DJ-like to be honest, but the trousers are quite a giveaway. Only really noticeable if you go around looking at people's trousers.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

You might want to find someone who got the printed invitation and see if you can get a look at how it is worded. Black tie or Black tie optional. If optional I think your suit is fine. Have you checked Snooty Fox locations to see if they have any tuxedos in your size? They often have them.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, I've now asked a member of the family whether I need to wear a tux and her response was as follows:

"If you have one - but if not I am sure a dark suit will do."

So, while perhaps not ideal, a suit will be okay for them I think. Still trying to track down an actual invite from someone, as suggested by another poster, to see what the wording is.

I'll buy losing the tie bar, but I disagree with the notion that black suit, white shirt and black tie equals undertaker or waiter.

I have, however, decided that (after this event is over) I'm going to start shopping for a tux, or at least a dinner jacket, though I doubt I'll wear either more than once a year. I've yet to attend a wedding in which anyone outside of the bridal party wore a tux, and tuxes are few and far between even at the symphony and opera in Cincinnati. In fact, this is the first event I've ever attended (I'm 27) in which the issue has ever even come up.

But I am NOT getting a cummerbund...


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## Sufferable Fob (Aug 26, 2009)

sko said:


> I disagree with the notion that black suit, white shirt and black tie equals undertaker or waiter.


Who thinks of a waiter or undertaker when they can think of this ? :










:icon_smile_wink:



sko said:


> I have, however, decided that (after this event is over) I'm going to start shopping for a tux, or at least a dinner jacket, though I doubt I'll wear either more than once a year. I've yet to attend a wedding in which anyone outside of the bridal party wore a tux, and tuxes are few and far between even at the symphony and opera in Cincinnati. In fact, this is the first event I've ever attended (I'm 27) in which the issue has ever even come up.
> 
> But I am NOT getting a cummerbund...


I don't know what the official word is, but I feel that tuxedos with waistcoats look kind of silly. I've seen some worn with white waistcoats that didn't look glaring, though. But that's just me and it's probably just a pet peeve thing.

I'm 20 and I have (at least) three occasions so far to wear white tie next year. Gosh, I feel fancy now.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

sko said:


> I've yet to attend a wedding in which anyone outside of the bridal party wore a tux...


I'll have to agree with you on this. I'm 30+ years older than you and have attended many weddings all over the country, from San Francisco to Annapolis, and I've never been to a wedding where even one person outside of the wedding party wore a tuxedo.

Maybe I just hang with the wrong crowd, but I'm always surprised when so many here talk about attending weddings in a tuxedo.

Cruiser


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## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

You say you'll get maybe just the dinner jacket, but I assume you mean with trousers? You'll need a pair of evening trousers rather than plain black ones.

Maybe try the local thrift/vintage stores if you're in no rush; and why spend a lot on an item you might not use much (unless you have the money to spare or love black tie. I fall under the latter, and have got a great rig via the vintage/charity route).

As Cruiser says, all those attending a wedding are not likley to adhere to the dress code perfectly or wear what the bridal party wear, and in many cases there will simply not be a very strict dress code. So you don't have to, but you might _*enjoy*_ wearing black tie, and proper black tie at that, to formal events where it is appropriate.

There are always those who do not adhere to dress codes, or those who do not follow them properly. Some of the patrons at Glyndebourne, where black tie is tradition, look dreadful. Just because a few do so, dosent mean I have to!

On wearing the black suit to the charity event, I'm sure that is fine and you'll look very smart.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Sean1982 said:


> Maybe try the local thrift/vintage stores if you're in no rush; and why spend a lot on an item you might not use much (unless you have the money to spare or love black tie. I fall under the latter, and have got a great rig via the vintage/charity route).


I'm afraid the thrift shops of Cincinnati aren't quite the same as the thrift shops of London, but I'll give it a try.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

sko said:


> .....But I am NOT getting a cummerbund...


Such being the case, can we then assume you will be going with the waistcoat option?


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## de5021 (Jul 30, 2006)

Wear a black bow tie and plain tip black and no one will ever notice


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## Carolus (May 12, 2009)

To my understanding if you are to attend a black tie event and are not planning to wear a tuxedo the correct way is to wear a dark suit with a white shirt, plain silver tie and white handkerchief. To my understanding black long ties are worn mostly at funerals. Wearing a silver tie removes the risk of being mistaken for a funeral director. Also I would advise against trying to fake-it with a black suit and a bow tie as you will be mistaken for a waiter. 
Obviously there are cultural differences so do not claim to be correct in my opinion.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Carolus said:


> To my understanding if you are to attend a black tie event and are not planning to wear a tuxedo the correct way is to wear a dark suit with a white shirt, plain silver tie and white handkerchief. To my understanding black long ties are worn mostly at funerals. Wearing a silver tie removes the risk of being mistaken for a funeral director. Also I would advise against trying to fake-it with a black suit and a bow tie as you will be mistaken for a waiter.
> Obviously there are cultural differences so do not claim to be correct in my opinion.


As an American I agree with this advice. If renting a decent fitting tux is not an option, a business suit should be fine. But I'd prefer navy or dark gray over black, solids over stripes, and silver four-in-hand necktie over black. Black suit with long black tie IMO just screams Hollywood schmaltz, in which case might as well go with black shirt too.


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

Its a black tie event, why do you insist on embarrassing the host by not showing up in black tie? If the invite just says "black tie" and not "black tie optional" then you really arent welcome to arrive wearing what you feel like because of some wardrobe cost/timing consideration. You would look better in a rented tux than out of place in your home-brew outfit surrounded by folks who took the effort to respect your host's wishes.

You are grasping at some heresay that a suit might be fine and then you cant seem to hear anyone telling you a long tie will make you look like a waiter and you are NOT going to wear a cummerbund (ever - evidently) and you are sure a rented tux will be ill-fitting so why are you asking here besides hoping to get off the hook?


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

deanayer said:


> Its a black tie event, why do you insist on embarrassing the host by not showing up in black tie? If the invite just says "black tie" and not "black tie optional" then you really arent welcome to arrive wearing what you feel like because of some wardrobe cost/timing consideration. You would look better in a rented tux than out of place in your home-brew outfit surrounded by folks who took the effort to respect your host's wishes.


If the individual who invited me was that concerned about my dress, he should have mentioned it was black tie more than a few days prior to the event or arranged for a formal invite to be sent. I would have just bought a tux and had it fitted if I'd had the time. I did not.



deanayer said:


> You are grasping at some heresay that a suit might be fine and then you cant seem to hear anyone telling you a long tie will make you look like a waiter and you are NOT going to wear a cummerbund (ever - evidently) and you are sure a rented tux will be ill-fitting so why are you asking here besides hoping to get off the hook?


Well, the "heresay" [sic] has it by a two to one margin, a member of the family said it's okay, and the long tie = waiter suggestion is (IMO) silly (and at least some of the other posters agree), so I'll be rocking the black suit and not a tux. In my OP, I asked for opinions and have incorporated at least one suggestion (losing the tie bar) into what I'll be wearing.

And no. I am not going to wear a cummerbund...ever. I'll be going the vest route when I start looking to purchase.

The event is tomorrow night. I'll report back on how gravely offended and embarrassed everyone was.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Yes, it certainly would be much better to have a black tie rig to wear...

A lighter colored tie really _would_ be better -- personally, I only wear black four-in-hand ties for mourning.

I might try a wedding tie for this. Other than that (+ FC & PS) I would do this just like a first-interview rig.


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## sko (Jul 1, 2009)

Well, the event happened and I was by no means the worst dressed in the room. In fact, I received a couple of complements of the outfit. Though most men were in tuxes, there were numerous attendees who were dressed in standard business attire, so I think I fell between them and the tux wearers in terms of formality, and I'm okay with that.

But...now begins the process of actually figuring out and tracking down a tux and its various components for future events.

Neat...


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

sko said:


> Well, the event happened and I was by no means the worst dressed in the room. In fact, I received a couple of complements of the outfit. Though most men were in tuxes, there were numerous attendees who were dressed in standard business attire


Didn't I tell you so? :icon_smile_big: I'm glad it went well.

Cruiser


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