# Bills price increases...how far will you go?



## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

I recently picked up a couple more of Bills Khakis. One in the standard twill and one in the chamois cloth. The twills were $145 and the chamois $165. When I first started buying Bills (shortly after he started selling out of his trunk) I think I was paying $65-$70 a pair. They have jumped in price rather sharply over the past couple of years. I love the pants, I like what Bill has done, love that they are made in America and they really are great pants. Having said that, I think he is getting ready to price himself right out of the market. My other preferred brand of khakis are Charleston Khakis and they seem to have held steady as far as price goes, at least for the past couple of years. Donnelly(sp?) khakis, of which I have not tried, seem to be an up and comer and their prices are still just south of a Franklin. 
My question to you is, how much are you willing to spend to get a pair of Bills? Have you already stopped buying them due to price?


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

I will buy them when they are (a) in a fabric that I can't find elsewhere or (b) on sale.

For my basic khaki needs, I am much happier with All American Khakis and/or Jack Donnelly.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Tough one. Haven't found anything else out there that compares with the M1's, but often pay full price because it's harder to find them on sale. I suppose I will hold my nose and pay up. STP is overflowing with M2's, but those are cut like other khakis-- nothing special.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

On another thread we have been discussing LLBean Double L's and they have some big fans.

I realize they are in a completely different price range (much lower, <$50).

-Are they in a different class in terms of being more of an informal type of pants?

-I see Bonobos mentioned quite a lot, maybe not as much as Bill's, but just wondering also if they are similar products?

(Who knew there was so much to learn about the world of khakis?)


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Like Ivygrad71 I bought a bunch when they were $75-85 per — which still seemed like a fortune. So I am well stocked.

But I have had some weight fluctuations since, going up and down one inch. So I have a big 36 pile and a smaller 37 pile and an even smaller 35 pile which I should probably sell because I will never get there again.

My preferred method is Sierra Trading Post or eBay, where there are two or three sellers who regularly stock irregulars. That's usually in the $75-85 range — just like 2006! Then $10 for hemming or $20 for cuffing from my alterations lady, who incidentally has built a small shrine to me, such is her gratitude.

One exception was last summer. I needed a good pair of really crisp almost white chinos for my uncle's 90th birthday. I didn't really need them but I wanted them to wear with a linen blazer. Very "Anyone for Tennis?" And nothing was really fitting that well.

The sort of sporty preppy shop in my town carries Bill's unhemmed, and can order them finished with a couple day's lead time. So we went ahead for a pair of stone (i.e. off-white) M2s in 36 and with a proper cuff. I think it was $135 plus tax. 

It's a shame the pants are getting so pricey, but I have not yet retired a pair of Bill's to the status of fish pants, which is much more than I can say about the cheaper garments in the pile(s)


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

Patrick06790 said:


> Like Ivygrad71 I bought a bunch when they were $75-85 per - which still seemed like a fortune. So I am well stocked.
> 
> But I have had some weight fluctuations since, going up and down one inch. So I have a big 36 pile and a smaller 37 pile and an even smaller 35 pile which I should probably sell because I will never get there again.
> 
> ...


They just last!


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## Blackford Oakes (Sep 7, 2010)

Bandit44 said:


> Tough one. Haven't found anything else out there that compares with the M1's, but often pay full price because it's harder to find them on sale. I suppose I will hold my nose and pay up. STP is overflowing with M2's, but those are cut like other khakis-- nothing special.


Agree on the M1.


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## alkydrinker (Apr 24, 2012)

i am fortunate enough to be a reasonable drive from Reading, PA and have inlaws there. I went to the last 2nds sale that was in december and plan to go to the next one, which I believe happens in June. After going to one, now I know better what works for me and what to look for. You can't beat $20/pair (no sales tax either), although you do have to look out for the flaws are, as some 2nds have flaws that noticeably blemish the appearance.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

I will second the All American Khakis vote. I have three pair and have compared them to a pair of Bill's I have and they are exactly the same pant. Check beautiesltd.com where you can buy them for about half the price of Bill's. Made in the USA (Thomson GA). 
I totally agree, Bill has gone over the top on his pricing; no way they are worth what he's charging.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

It's just the cost of doing business in the U.S. The reason why Charleston Khakis and Berle have held steady in price is because they moved production from the U.S. to overseas. They can just keep finding cheaper factories to make their stuff and keep their prices and margins the same.

Speaking as someone who runs their own domestic manufacturing small business, EVERYTHING is getting more expensive. Fuel, utilities, equipment, raw goods, insurance, maintenance....you name it. What should Bill do? Keep his prices the same and lower his margins? That's just not a sustainable way to run a small or niche company like Bills. Look at their catalog. They clearly know who their primary customers are. It's middle aged men with upper middle incomes or higher. Those folks are doing fairly well in this economy and don't worry too much about the price of their khakis.

As others have stated, there are numerous ways around paying full freight for Bills. If you shop online, check out ebay and STP. If you have local specialty shops, wait for sales. I personally get coupons from our 2 local specialty shops at the start of each season. There is always a 20% off coupon for a pair of pants. I usually buy one from each store each season. Stores also have trunk shows where they give 10-20% discounts for the brands being shown.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm priced out for philosophical reasons. A pair of Bill's are nice, but at the end of the day, they're a pair of casual cotton pants. One step above a pair of blue jeans. A big step I'll grant you, but still only one. 

For the price of one pair of Bill's you could buy a pair of clearance-priced AE shoes that will last a lifetime. For the price of two Bill's, you could buy a pair of AEs at full price. I know it's apples and oranges, but when I look at it that way, I think either the AEs are underpriced or the Bill's are an unjustifiable luxury.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

DownSouth said:


> I will second the All American Khakis vote. I have three pair and have compared them to a pair of Bill's I have and they are exactly the same pant. Check beautiesltd.com where you can buy them for about half the price of Bill's. Made in the USA (Thomson GA).
> I totally agree, Bill has gone over the top on his pricing; no way they are worth what he's charging.


I'll side with those who will eat the price increase. As Patrick says, they last practically forever, so what's an extra $20 or so when we're talking about sartorial eternity? Full disclosure, I say this as someone who wears Bills exclusively, but all purchased secondhand for a fraction of the retail price.

If something works, I think that you should stick with it. This forum is filled with all kinds of sad-luck stories about such-and-such brand shirt or trousers isn't what it used to be, I'm disappointed with the last one or two or even three ones I bought. That's what can happen when you try saving a few bucks instead of swallowing hard and buying what you know has worked, even though it costs more. It only takes one misadventure to more than make up for the price difference of tried and true.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

One small step for man, a giant step for mankind.

As you say, AE vs. Bills is apples to oranges--it's really tough to pull Park Avenues around one's waist.



Snow Hill Pond said:


> I'm priced out for philosophical reasons. A pair of Bill's are nice, but at the end of the day, they're a pair of casual cotton pants. One step above a pair of blue jeans. A big step I'll grant you, but still only one.
> 
> For the price of one pair of Bill's you could buy a pair of clearance-priced AE shoes that will last a lifetime. For the price of two Bill's, you could buy a pair of AEs at full price. I know it's apples and oranges, but when I look at it that way, I think either the AEs are underpriced or the Bill's are an unjustifiable luxury.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

nolan50410 said:


> It's just the cost of doing business in the U.S. The reason why Charleston Khakis and Berle have held steady in price is because they moved production from the U.S. to overseas. They can just keep finding cheaper factories to make their stuff and keep their prices and margins the same.
> 
> Speaking as someone who runs their own domestic manufacturing small business, EVERYTHING is getting more expensive. Fuel, utilities, equipment, raw goods, insurance, maintenance....you name it. What should Bill do?  Keep his prices the same and lower his margins? That's just not a sustainable way to run a small or niche company like Bills. Look at their catalog. They clearly know who their primary customers are. It's middle aged men with upper middle incomes or higher. Those folks are doing fairly well in this economy and don't worry too much about the price of their khakis.
> 
> As others have stated, there are numerous ways around paying full freight for Bills. If you shop online, check out ebay and STP. If you have local specialty shops, wait for sales. I personally get coupons from our 2 local specialty shops at the start of each season. There is always a 20% off coupon for a pair of pants. I usually buy one from each store each season. Stores also have trunk shows where they give 10-20% discounts for the brands being shown.


Well Said. I'll keep buying them as it supports a US business and I am a fan of their stuff. Everything has gone up in price. You get what you pay for in some cases and this is one of them. Most of mine are getting near 3 years old and are just coming into their own. Competitors like Donnelly and American hopefully with prompt Bills into reviewing their price or trying to defende the top price tier.


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## Walter Denton (Sep 11, 2011)

DownSouth said:


> I will second the All American Khakis vote. I have three pair and have compared them to a pair of Bill's I have and they are exactly the same pant. Check beautiesltd.com where you can buy them for about half the price of Bill's. Made in the USA (Thomson GA).
> I totally agree, Bill has gone over the top on his pricing; no way they are worth what he's charging.


Those khakis from beautiesltd.com look like a great deal if they are that good. I think I need to try a pair. I'm finding it harder and harder to find Bills in my size for a good price on EBay.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

32rollandrock said:


> One small step for man, a giant step for mankind.


If you're going to play the Neil Armstrong card, then I'll fold.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

32rollandrock said:


> I'll side with those who will eat the price increase. As Patrick says, they last practically forever, so what's an extra $20 or so when we're talking about sartorial eternity? Full disclosure, I say this as someone who wears Bills exclusively, but all purchased secondhand for a fraction of the retail price.
> 
> If something works, I think that you should stick with it. This forum is filled with all kinds of sad-luck stories about such-and-such brand shirt or trousers isn't what it used to be, I'm disappointed with the last one or two or even three ones I bought. That's what can happen when you try saving a few bucks instead of swallowing hard and buying what you know has worked, even though it costs more. It only takes one misadventure to more than make up for the price difference of tried and true.


x2. Most of the time you can have price or quality. Not both unfortunately.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Just as death and taxes are guarantees in life, so are price increases.

Free market supply and demand dictate the cost for all goods and services.

While I agree with the basic premise about the cost of doing business I disagree that this is what it takes for a business to stay viable. Here's something else about a business remaining viable, if they price their goods so high that people refuse to purchase them, the business *will no longer be viable*.

To the original post I can say this for sure: There is a trend going on right now, especially with American made goods. The tell tail signs of this trend are images of old American manufacturing facilities symbolic of the Americana that once was. (The basic idea in that day was a square deal at a fair price.) The marketing people at these firms will usually use words like "Curated," referring to how carefully their raw materials are sourced.

Next they will throw in the word "Craft" or they will mention that their goods are made by "Artisans." Then there's "Authentic!" Hey! Heck, Bill's even says that some of their suppliers are Amish! (Almost enough to trigger my gag reflex,....)

In my opinion Bill's crossed the line awhile back.

Some things are worth paying extra for, it's a subjective thing, but basic cotton khakis are not one of them for me. I can do better, or almost as good, at half the price of Bill's khakis. All American Khaki's made in Thomson Georgia full retail price $84.95 plus shipping.

*If people keep purchasing Bill's goods in spite of one price increase after another what is the message this sends to Bill's management? Rhetorical question. If there is no consequence to their actions they will continue until there is a consequence.*

Here's the bottom line: If we stop purchasing their goods they will pursue a different strategy.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

32rollandrock said:


> I'll side with those who will eat the price increase. As Patrick says, they last practically forever, so what's an extra $20 or so when we're talking about sartorial eternity? Full disclosure, I say this as someone who wears Bills exclusively, but all purchased secondhand for a fraction of the retail price.
> 
> If something works, I think that you should stick with it. This forum is filled with all kinds of sad-luck stories about such-and-such brand shirt or trousers isn't what it used to be, I'm disappointed with the last one or two or even three ones I bought. That's what can happen when you try saving a few bucks instead of swallowing hard and buying what you know has worked, even though it costs more. It only takes one misadventure to more than make up for the price difference of tried and true.


Unless you are one of the the ones where price is no object, you owe it to yourself to look at the All American Khakis and compare them to Bill's. CharDan Ltd in Thomson GA makes the All American Khaki and, as I understand it, have sold them as private label brands thru many specialty retailers. Would not be surprised if they did not manufacture for Berle before they defected to Mexico.
Still supporting a USA company when you buy All Americans.
I'm not convinced that Bill has encountered increased costs leading to their doubling the price over the last 5-6 years. Rather I think Bill has gotten "too big for his britches" and is riding the wave for all he can get. Bank the extra cash and, when the customers disappear, retire.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

^^

I agree with the premise about American made goods having a certain cachet these days, but I'll still disagree when it comes to Bills. They were never cheap. They were always targeted at a market that demanded the best. I have yet to hear of any quality complaints. You can't say the same about other companies, say, Filson, which is cashing in on the American-made mystique by charging WAY too much for stuff while quality, according to some posters with firsthand experience, has suffered.

I have a pair of Bullard Field Pants and a pair of anniversary trousers that are essentially the same that are, in my view, in a class by themselves. They have gotten better, softer, with age. Maybe Orvis makes something similar, judging by their catalog, but Orvis ain't cheap, either. Bullards cost, at last check, $185 per pair. If a pair lasts six years with regular wear, which is more than possible in my experience, that's OK. I'd rather have one pair of trousers that lasts six years than have to buy two or even three pairs of, say BB, over the same time period, even if the cost is a wash.


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## Himself (Mar 2, 2011)

Eric W S said:


> x2. Most of the time you can have price or quality. Not both unfortunately.


Most of the time, price has nothing to do with quality, but what "marketing professionals" have decided that customers will pay.

Luxury brands of all kinds seem to be testing their limits right now. In our world, see J. Press & BB too.


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

I can assure you the cost of doing business in the US has grown significantly in the last 5-6 years. Unfortunately for me, my customers are not high income individuals, like they are for Bills. I've been forced to keep my prices as low as possible. My margins have gone down, as has my income and standard of living. I don't have a choice. Mr. Thomas and Co. have decided, through analyzing past results and current market conditions, that the loss of customers would be outweighed by the increase or sustainability of their margins.

He didn't get here by being a bad businessman.


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## tigerpac (Jan 23, 2014)

I'm a very big supporter of US made (or just generally places with better working conditions) goods and am fine with paying a premium for it. I don't like it when companies (and I'm not saying that Bills is doing this, but some companies have) take that goodwill from locally made items and exploit it. There are limits to what everything is worth.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Himself said:


> Most of the time, price has nothing to do with quality, but what "marketing professionals" have decided that customers will pay.
> 
> Luxury brands of all kinds seem to be testing their limits right now. In our world, see J. Press & BB too.


Excellent point! I truly believe that this is also an issue of consumers lacking the ability to think critically.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Price is an object, which is why I take advantage of others' fluctuating waistlines and buy mine secondhand. Perhaps, then, I have an ulterior motive in convincing others to keep buying Bills. The most I've ever paid for a pair of Bills was, as I recall, $30-$40 for a pair of Bullards. Most usually, it's around $20 (I have way more khakis than I need). Again, it's one of those things where I'm not going to try something different because what I'm doing now works--I have zero complaints. In a sense, I think I'm already being frugal. I suppose I could try being even more frugal and buy less-expensive brands on the secondhand market, but I also think that there is a point of diminishing returns. The brand you mention may, or may not, work for me. I prefer going with a sure thing.



DownSouth said:


> Unless you are one of the the ones where price is no object, you owe it to yourself to look at the All American Khakis and compare them to Bill's. CharDan Ltd in Thomson GA makes the All American Khaki and, as I understand it, have sold them as private label brands thru many specialty retailers. Would not be surprised if they did not manufacture for Berle before they defected to Mexico.
> Still supporting a USA company when you buy All Americans.
> I'm not convinced that Bill has encountered increased costs leading to their doubling the price over the last 5-6 years. Rather I think Bill has gotten "too big for his britches" and is riding the wave for all he can get. Bank the extra cash and, when the customers disappear, retire.


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

Well said. 


127.72 MHz said:


> Just as death and taxes are guarantees in life, so are price increases.
> 
> Free market supply and demand dictate the cost for all goods and services.
> 
> ...


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

127.72 MHz said:


> Excellent point! I truly believe that this is also an issue of consumers lacking the ability to think critically.


Depends on the individual, the purchase and other constraints like budget.

Most people just don't want to spend the money regardless of the perceived or actual quality. "They are only chinos" or they are this or that. Where is the value in replacing cheap goods ad naseum?


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## Bandit44 (Oct 1, 2010)

Perhaps the price increase of the Original Twills was to offset company losses/expenses elsewhere? Just conjecture, but part of the problem may be the limited editions and new lines, ad nauseum. While I like the additional choices, I wonder how much money they earn after many (or most) are seasonally liquidated on Ebay, STP, and by other discounters. Might be time for me to start hoarding M1's.

https://www.philly.com/philly/livin..._Reading_now_a_slimmer__hipper_must-have.html


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Walter Denton said:


> Those khakis from beautiesltd.com look like a great deal if they are that good. I think I need to try a pair. I'm finding it harder and harder to find Bills in my size for a good price on EBay.


They are excellent. I've even been to the garment factory in GA and bought straight from them.


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## UnivStripe (Mar 6, 2013)

Other than beautiesltd.com, where are these available online? I see on the allamericankhakis.com website that you have to go to their factory in Thompson, Georgia to buy directly from them. I have checked some of the websites for retailers listed in their locations page but many of them do not have them available online. Is the Beau Ties logo above the back pocket like the images show for their shorts?


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Great article. Thanks.



Bandit44 said:


> Perhaps the price increase of the Original Twills was to offset company losses/expenses elsewhere? Just conjecture, but part of the problem may be the limited editions and new lines, ad nauseum. While I like the additional choices, I wonder how much money they earn after many (or most) are seasonally liquidated on Ebay, STP, and by other discounters. Might be time for me to start hoarding M1's.
> 
> https://www.philly.com/philly/livin..._Reading_now_a_slimmer__hipper_must-have.html


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

I have spoken with the folks at CharDan (All American Khakis) in Thomson GA. You can purchase direct from them over the phone. They are quite pleasant.
The logo on the back pocket is just like on the shorts; very small and easily removed if you wanted.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

DownSouth said:


> I have spoken with the folks at CharDan (All American Khakis) in Thomson GA. You can purchase direct from them over the phone. They are quite pleasant.
> The logo on the back pocket is just like on the shorts; very small and easily removed if you wanted.


Make sure to ask about rise. When I was there, there was a long rise and a short rise section for the khakis. This was 5 years ago though, things might have changed.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

UnivStripe said:


> Other than beautiesltd.com, where are these available online? I see on the allamericankhakis.com website that you have to go to their factory in Thompson, Georgia to buy directly from them. I have checked some of the websites for retailers listed in their locations page but many of them do not have them available online. Is the Beau Ties logo above the back pocket like the images show for their shorts?


The logo is pretty miniscule. I'm pretty anti-branding on anything, but this doesn't even both me.

If you want them logo-less, Steve Calvert also sells them. https://www.traditionsbystevecalvert.com/


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

Pentheos said:


> They are excellent. I've even been to the garment factory in GA and bought straight from them.


Is there more than one fit? Also what is the rise like on these compared to Bills? Comparing to Bills are they trimmer, fuller,etc..? Thanks.


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Ivygrad71 said:


> Is there more than one fit? Also what is the rise like on these compared to Bills? Comparing to Bills are they trimmer, fuller,etc..? Thanks.


"Prewashed with enzyme for a silky finish" (the cotton twill). "Treated with a silicone enzyme softener" (the cotton gaberdine).

With the huge caveat that I don't own a pair, language like that makes me nervous. I prefer to soften my khakis the old-fashioned way, which is to wear them lots.


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

32rollandrock said:


> "Prewashed with enzyme for a silky finish" (the cotton twill). "Treated with a silicone enzyme softener" (the cotton gaberdine).
> 
> With the huge caveat that I don't own a pair, language like that makes me nervous. I prefer to soften my khakis the old-fashioned way, which is to wear them lots.


I saw that and it made me a little nervous as well. In all fairness, the Bills are a tough pant to beat. They're almost perfect!


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Here is what I can tell you.

(1) The pants that Beau Ties sells are, in terms of cut, the same or very similar to the classic fit Jack Donnelly's.

(2) I have no idea what this enzyme wash business is about. The only place I've seen that language is with J. Press's khakis, which are pretty stiff despite the wash.

(3) Regardless of the wash, the khakis I have are pretty stiff and raw. I have their "Kramer twill" which Beau Ties sells. It's similar to Bills original twills. I also have the regular twill that I bought from both Steve Calvert and Eddie Jacobs (maybe it's gabardine?) It's dressy looking and has a harder finish than the kramer twill. I would compare it to the khakis from J. Press.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Bills prices are "fair" only in the context of a willing seller and a willing buyer. I have willingly bought five pairs of M3's because they fit me perfectly, but Bills is just a purveyor of something I want. If I could find that fit in a comparable quality for less money, I would buy khakis from Georgia, Tadzhikistan or even Massachusetts.


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## WillBarrett (Feb 18, 2012)

I love the Bill's I have, and if my money situation were better, I've no qualms about paying a high price for khakis. But there is a point at which Bill's or any other US-made good becomes unviable. Unless you're Muffy Aldrich or John Tinseth, it's out of reach for most people.

I'm curious about the state to state ramifications - perhaps some states would be much cheaper to manufacture in than others.


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## mfs (Mar 1, 2009)

Can one or two of you answer a question about the fit of the All American Khakis.

Is the fit of the All American Khakis similar to the Bill's M1 or M2? (Using the Bill's as our standard of measure)


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

mfs said:


> Can one or two of you answer a question about the fit of the All American Khakis.
> 
> Is the fit of the All American Khakis similar to the Bill's M1 or M2? (Using the Bill's as our standard of measure)


I would be curious to see the answer as well.


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

At what point do you just turn to a tailor to reproduce them for you? Or make chinos just for you? I have been asking myself if this wouldn't be the easiest and most cost effective way?


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## AshScache (Feb 4, 2013)

I don't have any bills now, but I live about an hour from reading and will probably buy a few pairs next factory sale. Way too expensive for me any other way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

DownSouth said:


> I will second the All American Khakis vote. _*I have three pair and have compared them to a pair of Bill's I have and they are exactly the same pant. *_ Check beautiesltd.com where you can buy them for about half the price of Bill's. Made in the USA (Thomson GA).
> I totally agree, Bill has gone over the top on his pricing; no way they are worth what he's charging.


OK DownSouth it is on you !

To which model of Bill's did you compare them ? ? ?

The world wants to know !


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## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

In case anyone is interested, there are a few pairs of Bills on offer on the exchange for $20 apiece, shipped.


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

oxford cloth button down said:


> At what point do you just turn to a tailor to reproduce them for you? Or make chinos just for you? I have been asking myself if this wouldn't be the easiest and most cost effective way?


Bespoke khakis. Good point but to me that just seems oxy-moronic. No jab at you intended OCBD.


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## Snow Hill Pond (Aug 10, 2011)

oxford cloth button down said:


> At what point do you just turn to a tailor to reproduce them for you? Or make chinos just for you? I have been asking myself if this wouldn't be the easiest and most cost effective way?


Great point. I don't think Bill's is there yet, but I wonder...

Materials + Labor = ?

$150? $250? $350?


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## Fiddlermatt (Jul 3, 2013)

There are good deals to be had for Bills. On STP there is an additional forty percent off which makes all their Bills hit right around $50. They even have chamois (which I assume is moleskin) and cords for slightly more.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

FM I see where the price reflects 40% off, but are you saying there is_* another 40% off?*_

I don't shop there very often and don't totally understand how it works. Is a coupon required?

Thanks!









I notice the Bills M1 rise is 11" and it says it is mainly for people who want a very full cut pants.
The M2 is 10" rise. That seems a smidge low to me.

_*Maybe one of the arbiters of rise could comment?
*_
There's no place to try them on around here and mail ordering is a bit of hassle.


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## Fiddlermatt (Jul 3, 2013)

Yes, right under the price it should say "View Coupon." Makes the original twills 52.17 and the chamois cloth around $48.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

I am not seeing it, is that something for which you need to be logged in to your account there?

Thanks!









This red coupon bar for 20% just popped up in the last few minutes:


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

That is going to be great info for the Bills addicts.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

zzdocxx said:


> OK DownSouth it is on you !
> 
> To which model of Bill's did you compare them ? ? ?
> 
> The world wants to know !


https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?169034-New-Fit-from-Jack-Donnelly/page2

Here is a comparison I did between the M2, the JD hybrid fit and the AAAK regular fit.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

L-feld said:


> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?169034-New-Fit-from-Jack-Donnelly/page2
> 
> Here is a comparison I did between the M2, the JD hybrid fit and the AAAK regular fit.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks for that review. The JD hybrids seem to work best for you from a visual perspective. My least favorite of the 3 you posted would be the All American. There is something about them to my eye that just looks "off"...not sure what it is but something.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah, I wish jd made the hybrid fit in different colors. I would absolutely buy it. I also really like O'Connell's house fit, which is similarly trim in the seat and thigh and with an even higher rise.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

I may have to give them a try.


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## Fiddlermatt (Jul 3, 2013)

I am logged in and signed up for their email deal flyer. I received an email about %40 off an order good until 3/31/14. Here is some screenshots to show what it looks like on my end:


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

I get it, it popped up just like the 20% on the one I looked at. Or it is overlaid one might say.

Funny I was surprised to see that rise, I figured it would be an inch or more higher considering the taste on this site. I mean depending on the model M1 v M2.

Well that would be a great price for those that love them so much.


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

Ivygrad71 said:


> Bespoke khakis. Good point but to me that just seems oxy-moronic. No jab at you intended OCBD.


No hard feelings, at all. To me it is sad that I even have to consider it!


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Great point. I don't think Bill's is there yet, but I wonder...
> 
> Materials + Labor = ?
> 
> $150? $250? $350?


My guess is some where between $150-200.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Snow Hill Pond said:


> Great point. I don't think Bill's is there yet, but I wonder...
> 
> Materials + Labor = ?
> 
> $150? $250? $350?


Your reply is more to the point. There have been more comments about Bill's pricing than I can recall here at AAAC. A good thread title would be: "State an specific dollar amount that would be too high for a pair of Bill's Khakis."


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

oxford cloth button down said:


> My guess is some where between $150-200.


And at that price you're very close to what a pair of tailor made khaki's would cost,...


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## oxford cloth button down (Jan 1, 2012)

L-feld said:


> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?169034-New-Fit-from-Jack-Donnelly/page2
> 
> Here is a comparison I did between the M2, the JD hybrid fit and the AAAK regular fit.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thanks for the link and for taking the time to post the pics. I actually like the AAAK the best.


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

127.72 MHz said:


> Your reply is more to the point. There have been more comments about Bill's pricing than I can recall here at AAAC. A good thread title would be: "State an specific dollar amount that would be too high for a pair of Bill's Khakis."


$175 for me. That's where I am drawing the line.


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

oxford cloth button down said:


> No hard feelings, at all. To me it is sad that I even have to consider it!


Good! And I agree with you, it is sad.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

L-feld said:


> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?169034-New-Fit-from-Jack-Donnelly/page2
> 
> Here is a comparison I did between the M2, the JD hybrid fit and the AAAK regular fit.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


L-feld and zzdocxx
My comparison was to the Bills M2. Not so much the dimensions, but fabric and details ,stitching, belt loops, watch pocket, waist liner (although AAK uses a blue gingham), right down to the color and placement of the buttons. For 1/2 the price, I could find little difference in the two. Would be interested to know what looked "off" to you about the AAK's.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

My only complaint about the AAK's is that they couldn't be let out in the crotch/rise. It's a minor niggle as the rise was generally adequate, but it's worth noting nonetheless.


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

I have a pair of the Donnelly Dalton slim fit on the way. They should be here in the next couple of days. Once I get them and have them altered I will post a review comparing them to the Bills M3 and the Charleston Khakis.


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## jackandnora (Aug 26, 2011)

L-feld said:


> Yeah, I wish jd made the hybrid fit in different colors. I would absolutely buy it.


I sent JD an email asking them to make the original fit in more colors. I didn't save the response, but it did mention that they are planning to have more color options in all of the fits this fall.

Still pretty far away, but promising.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

DownSouth said:


> I will second the All American Khakis vote. I have three pair and have compared them to a pair of Bill's I have and they are exactly the same pant. Check beautiesltd.com where you can buy them for about half the price of Bill's. Made in the USA (Thomson GA).
> I totally agree, Bill has gone over the top on his pricing; no way they are worth what he's charging.


Just got a couple pair of All American Khakis, two waist sizes.

The 42 fits, although I have to say the seat and legs are rather baggy.

Fix them vs. try something else?

What I like also is the construction around the waist, comfortable, the extra band seems to give them more give also, which I feel will help to keep them up in the right place.

Note to self: need to lose weight.

So if they are similar to the Bills M2, that's probably as slim as I would want to go.

Looked on STP, saw some M3s, might order some just to check the fit, I'll spend the postage to return the ones that don't fit, it is probably cheaper than driving across town nowadays.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

L-feld said:


> https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?169034-New-Fit-from-Jack-Donnelly/page2
> 
> Here is a comparison I did between the M2, the JD hybrid fit and the AAAK regular fit.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


OK now I have got it. Yes the AAKs are kind of loose around my seat and legs, maybe a bit too much.

I bought a pair of JDs when they first came out, the size was too large and the legs too baggy, I had to send them back.

So JD has a hybrid now? I'll check it out.

Also want to say I like the AAK construction in the waist in comparison to the LLBean Double L's which don't really have much to speak of.

The waist construction of AAK reminds me a bit of Zanella pants, which is one of the things about the Zanella that I think I like best.

*Do any khakis come with a 3 point closure?* (Sorry if that seems absurd for casual pants, just asking though.)

Also, I got a not very knowledgeable salesperson on the line at STP -- question on the Bills M3

What's the diff in the "driving" vs "vintage" pants. I know the vintage is slightly lighter weight cloth but not sure if cut is same (I think so but salesperson thought otherwise).

Also, there's another one with "combed cotton" twill, same weight as the driving khakis. What diff does it make if it is combed cotton? Is it dressier or ? ? ?

Thanks.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

127.72 MHz said:


> Your reply is more to the point. There have been more comments about Bill's pricing than I can recall here at AAAC. A good thread title would be: "State an specific dollar amount that would be too high for a pair of Bill's Khakis."


I say $85 max. And that's still more than I'd pay given the options available. I think Bill priced himself out of the market a while back. Guess it boils down to, do you want to sell 10000 pair @ $135 or 20000 pair @ $85. Maybe the difference isn't worth it since I'm not in that business.


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

End of the day the fact refutes the general conjecture. Thankfully Bill's is doing well, and has been for quite some time now. He has continaully expanded the business. Hardly evidence of reaching pricing and demand constraints or of someone who is not an astute businessman...


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## Ivygrad71 (Mar 22, 2014)

I spoke with Gregg just the other day about this very issue. He told me they have more colors and fabrics coming later this year. They are a great company to work with and I am glad I can support their endeavor. 


jackandnora said:


> I sent JD an email asking them to make the original fit in more colors. I didn't save the response, but it did mention that they are planning to have more color options in all of the fits this fall.
> 
> Still pretty far away, but promising.


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