# What distinguishes us from other animals? Fashion?



## njkyle (Oct 11, 2009)

I was having a polite discussion with friends the other day, when We tried to come up with a single factor that distinguishes us from other animals.

Intelligence? Dolphins and apes seem to be pretty smart, so it might be a matter of degree.

Language? No, Koko the chimp has an impressive vocabulary and a simple grammar.

Religion? Possibly, though it would be hard to be sure that we are unique in this regard.

Technology? Animals have been known to invent tools.

Fashion? I can't think of an example of an animal using fashion; that is adorning itself with the equivalent of clothes or jewelry.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Well, if you're confused between an animal or a human do this test that I came up with:

Look at the female of the species in question, if you develop an affectionate feeling, chances are she's human. :icon_smile_big:


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

An opposing thumb.

Clothes.

Table manners.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The truth be known, I think you will find most (if not all) of the animal species to be more civilized! 

On the clothing front, it seems a couple of the dogs we have enjoyed as members of the family, over the years, have enjoyed shoes as much as I seem to. Though, they enjoyed eating them and I enjoy wearing them!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Animals can't drive cars.


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## camorristi (May 9, 2010)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Animals can't drive cars.


It seems your Earldom is a bit misguided, what do you call this?


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Animals live in the moment.....

They have no need for fashion, table manners, Jesus or iPhones.

All my dog needs is to eat, pee, poop, play some ball, get a good walk in the woods and have a bit of a cuddle on the couch at night and she's had the perfect day. All her days are perfect. I have a German Shorthair Pointer btw...

But what distinguishes us? Well we have this fantastic abilty to shape our environment - on a scale beyond simple shelter -that suit our needs(?). Animals will happily live in their natural habitat with little or no long term damage to themselves as a species and the sustainability of other species around them. It's when we start messing things up - for them and us - it all goes awry.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

camorristi said:


> Well, if you're confused between an animal or a human do this test that I came up with:
> 
> Look at the female of the species in question, if you develop an affectionate feeling, chances are she's human. :icon_smile_big:


Funny but if I were to look at my ex (a female), I would hopefully not only fail to feel affectionate but would hopefully run farm run fast and as always never ever look back.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

There is only one way that we are actually different. We have the ego to assume that we are superior to all other species when the truth is that there is often some other animal that is superior to us in what ever endeavor we try.
Thus we are different because we take pride in our ignorance.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

camorristi said:


> It seems your Earldom is a bit misguided, what do you call this?


 yes, but "driving" means being in full control of a vehicle! That canine's feet will not be on the pedals


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Country Irish said:


> There is only one way that we are actually different. We have the ego to assume that we are superior to all other species when the truth is that there is often some other animal that is superior to us in what ever endeavor we try.
> Thus we are different because we take pride in our ignorance.


I will revel in my ignorance and not cross that bridge buildt by orangutans!!


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## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

njkyle said:


> Fashion? I can't think of an example of an animal using fashion; that is adorning itself with the equivalent of clothes or jewelry.


Hermit crabs????

Andy B.


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## Apatheticviews (Mar 21, 2010)

Female animals don't believe in fashion. Most lack plumage designed to attract mates (while the males are more brightly colored).

Female humans are all about Plumage to attract mates.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Country Irish said:


> We have the ego to assume that we are superior to all other species when the truth is that there is often some other animal that is superior to us in what ever endeavor we try.


What a very odd and wholly inaccurate thing to say.
Remind me again what animal species it is that is making better computers than humans?
And what species is it, again you'll have to remind me, that carries out microneurosurgery?


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> What a very odd and wholly inaccurate thing to say.
> Remind me again what animal species it is that is making better computers than humans?
> And what species is it, again you'll have to remind me, that carries out microneurosurgery?


Ah, you are making a common mistake of humans. You are trying to force human perceptions of needs on to the animals. You think of a specific tool and pretend you are superior because you have a vague idea of how it works. If you break it down, animals do count. Birds are especially good at it. If you want something built many animals are better. If you mean using tools, birds and mammals of all sorts come to mind. In all, a computer is a human tool for human needs and even at that very few humans can build one and few really know how one works.
As for microsurgery you must realize that it is simply drilling holes and snipping away at a body part we do not understand. Such surgery shows we know little if anything about the brain and when we resort to such barbaric practices we are only shooting craps. (Off the subject but Alzheimer's disease is a great example of our lack of knowledge and our numerous blunders in pretending we know more than we actually do. Our "researchers" have actually caused more harm than good.)

We are not a supreme being despite what ever book you read proclaiming otherwise. Our needs are different than other animals. When you can point out why dolphins would want to construct a computer you might have a point. Of course then you personally would be required to build one from silicon up to prove that you can actually do what you want dolphins to do. Of course you are already defeated because while dolphins are good at learning our form of communication we are not so good at understanding them. Thus you do not know how to ask if they would like a computer or if they already have one. Silly human.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> yes, but "driving" means being in full control of a vehicle! That canine's feet will not be on the pedals


What about Toonces, the Cat who drives?


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> What about Toonces, the Cat who drives?


Ahh yes, Toonces the cat:


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

I really do think we're missing a trick with this thread. It's not about who's 'better' - us or other animals.

Sure we have evolved to be a highly intelligent species. We are by far the most dominant too. We have developed the power to destroy this planet - and ourselves - if we wanted to. But, to use our intelligence as a yardstick to measure the intellgence of other animals - that's what misses the point. Are we that insecure as a species that we need to? All intelligent life is just that - intellegent - however that intellegence is only really relevant to it's own species and how it . 

As was previously suggested, to anthropomorphise an animal is a sure fire way to misunderstand it's behavious and ultimatly it's needs. This is the root of this discussion topic.  I see this with dogs all the time, for example. Sure, my dog has no concept of semiconductors. Well duh?! She also has no interest in acquiring wealth beyond her needs and certainly has not the want to create let alone push 'the red button'. Don't misunderstand this as stupidity.

The biggest lesson we can learn from animals is to live within our needs and use our intellegence to ensure our needs for the future are met.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

VictorRomeo said:


> The biggest lesson we can learn from animals is to live within our needs and use our intellegence to ensure our needs for the future are met.


Actually, your dog taught me that the best way to get by is to be a mooch!!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I would have to say the ability to speak properly.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Actually, your dog taught me that the best way to get by is to be a mooch!!


Actually, I think you might have hit it..... Other species don't do sarcasm....


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Serious note: Aren't all animals, apart from humans, cannibals if given the chance? Spiders, birds, whales, fish, apes, dogs, lions etc. all given the chance will eat the body of a dead species-brother. Added to that a conscience, ethics and morals.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Serious note: Aren't all animals, apart from humans, cannibals if given the chance? Spiders, birds, whales, fish, apes, dogs, lions etc. all given the chance will eat the body of a dead species-brother. Added to that a conscience, ethics and morals.


Indeed, however in the animal kingdom cannibalism is very much an instictive, ecological practice and not just out of desparation with extreme food shortages.... monkeys, lions, and wild dogs for example(there are others) will commit infanticide to eliminate the offspring of defeated previously dominant males. And of there is sexual cannibalism with spiders and the preying mantis.... I'll leave that one there though !

Human cannibalism can be all of these things - however it can usually be attributed to insanity (leaving aside deperate hunger as a seperate reason).

Of course the one practice that seperates us from other animals is our ritualistic/cultural practice of cannibalism. Conscience, ethics and morals indeed!


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

VictorRomeo said:


> Of course the one practice that seperates us from other animals is our ritualistic/cultural practice of cannibalism. Conscience, ethics and morals indeed!


Oh no, don't go there mate, pleads this Catholic... I can see it trying to break out of your sentence and explode like a massive bomb all over the page...but that's for another thread....if you care to start it


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Serious note: Aren't all animals, apart from humans, cannibals if given the chance? Spiders, birds, whales, fish, apes, dogs, lions etc. all given the chance will eat the body of a dead species-brother. Added to that a conscience, ethics and morals.


I don't see myself resorting to such; I don't even see myself devouring an Ape.

I might bash his head in and steal his bananas though!!


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Steal an ape's bananas and you'd be dinner.....


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

VictorRomeo said:


> Steal an ape's bananas and you'd be dinner.....


Nonsense.

Not only had I the forsight to bash him over the head first, I also layed about shards of glass so that when he came to and pursued me, I, with my shoes on shall run straight over the glass whilst he, the silly thing with no shoes, will emerge bloody footed and bananaless!!

Take that, you hairy ghastly thing you!!


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

I'd pay to see that....


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

Country Irish said:


> There is only one way that we are actually different. We have the ego to assume that we are superior to all other species when the truth is that there is often some other animal that is superior to us in what ever endeavor we try.
> Thus we are different because we take pride in our ignorance.


The thing that distinguishes from other animals is our language, ratiocination, and self-awareness. We can, for example, use the internet and a computer to discuss clothes. Whether this is a positive use of our faculties is another question.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Nonsense.
> 
> Not only had I the forsight to bash him over the head first, I also layed about shards of glass so that when he came to and pursued me, I, with my shoes on shall run straight over the glass whilst he, the silly thing with no shoes, will emerge bloody footed and bananaless!!
> 
> Take that, you hairy ghastly thing you!!


We can hope that you are planning to do this with something small lik e a rhesus. If you plan to thry this with an oragutang nothing you said is going to stop him. If you hit him with an axe handle and he retaliates with bare hands, you lose. However I do believe every man has a right to die fighting. If today is your day to go, just have a chat with a silver back. We will mail the pieces to your wife.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

WouldaShoulda said:


> Actually, your dog taught me that the best way to get by is to be a mooch!!


That sounds like a well thought out plan unless the dog wanders into certain oriental butcher shops.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> Serious note: Aren't all animals, apart from humans, cannibals if given the chance? Spiders, birds, whales, fish, apes, dogs, lions etc. all given the chance will eat the body of a dead species-brother. Added to that a conscience, ethics and morals.


That is hit and miss. Cannibalism is contra survival since what one is eating is a repository for same germs that can kill the one doing the eating. Eating your litter-mate could exterminate the entire blood line.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Pleasant McIvor said:


> The thing that distinguishes from other animals is our language, ratiocination, and self-awareness.


Not quite so. It's widely accepted that some species of animals are self aware or have shown the capacity to be self aware - certain breeds of dolphin, ape and elephant for example. Crows and raven too. You see we need to see something to believe it whereas other species rely on other senses - again as an example a Dog smells first and looks later.

Language - albeit not the Queen's English - certainly exists in the animal kingdom. It's not just all about sound but visual and olfactory are used to communicate too.

Finally, reasoning - animals are particularly brilliant at working out problems..... Again, dolphins, crows and ravens, dogs and apes have shown they have the ability to solve problems by abstract reasoning.

Once again, to use only human traits and behavior to measure how animal intellegence is flawed and leads to silly conclusions.

Sure, we're better at building factories, surfing the internet and barbecuing steak - that's not the discussion point here. The point is that we are evey bit as much a part of the animal kingdom (and the food chain for that matter) as say a Lion stalking prey in the Serengeti and knowing, understanding and respecting our place will make is so much better for this planet's ecology.

Now, if anyone brings up the concept of a soul, consider yourself squarely punched in the nose....


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## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

VictorRomeo said:


> Now, if anyone brings up the concept of a soul, consider yourself squarely punched in the nose....


My soul is on about its 7300th recycle, you know, with all that reincarnating going on. 

I've been reading this thread to hopefully find the answer, but so far I don't see it. You guys are kind of letting me down. It appears that it isn't one thing that sets us apart, it is that we can adapt to do all of these things. Between our methods of communicating, problem solving, tool use, and those wonderful opposable thumbs, we can do a lot of things.

Andy B.


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

VictorRomeo said:


> Not quite so. It's widely accepted that some species of animals are self aware or have shown the capacity to be self aware - certain breeds of dolphin, ape and elephant for example. Crows and raven too. You see we need to see something to believe it whereas other species rely on other senses - again as an example a Dog smells first and looks later.
> 
> Language - albeit not the Queen's English - certainly exists in the animal kingdom. It's not just all about sound but visual and olfactory are used to communicate too.
> 
> ...


Sure, other animals have whispers of these things. In humans, language, thought, and self-awareness culminate. Don't tell me dolphins philosophize.


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## Country Irish (Nov 10, 2005)

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Sure, other animals have whispers of these things. In humans, language, thought, and self-awareness culminate. Don't tell me dolphins philosophize.


I won't tell you. You have to ask them yourself. As for language, if we were so smart we would already have one universal language since our communication or the lack gets us into a lot of trouble. Thought is a null point because we don't know what they are thinking (but they can think). Self awareness should only be proclaimed when we can define ourselves in relationship to the rest of the animal kingdom. We are not isolated. And finally our philosophy is very often self delusion which is reverse engineered from our desired goal.
Thus we are still primates with delusions of grandeur.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Don't tell me dolphins philosophize.


How do you know that they don't?


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Country Irish said:


> I won't tell you. You have to ask them yourself.


What makes you think I haven't??


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

How about agressiveness behaviors?


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Howard said:


> How about agressiveness behaviors?


How about them?!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

VictorRomeo said:


> How about them?!


The way we show our fears and the way animals show them too.


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

Country Irish said:


> That is hit and miss. Cannibalism is contra survival since what one is eating is a repository for same germs that can kill the one doing the eating. Eating your litter-mate could exterminate the entire blood line.


Yet we're the only ones that know that and that can communicate it with each other.



Country Irish said:


> I won't tell you. You have to ask them yourself. As for language, if we were so smart we would already have one universal language since our communication or the lack gets us into a lot of trouble. Thought is a null point because we don't know what they are thinking (but they can think). Self awareness should only be proclaimed when we can define ourselves in relationship to the rest of the animal kingdom. We are not isolated. And finally our philosophy is very often self delusion which is reverse engineered from our desired goal.
> Thus we are still primates with delusions of grandeur.


That's assuming that universal language is a good thing. Should cultures not persist in their respective individualities? Different languages lead to different patterns of thought, which can yield new ideas.

And finally, if you can proclaim that "our philosophy is very often self-delusion which is reverse-engineered from our desired goal," then it would seem that you should be lumped among the self-deluded, for you presume to discount all human philosophy with an empty, indefensible claim (unless you answer with a systematic deconstruction of all philosophy).

And you purport "to know." I counter that we should know that we don't know. However, in a Cartesian twist, knowing that we don't know is very high self-awareness and not at all delusional.


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## VictorRomeo (Sep 11, 2009)

Oh, OK.... just didn't get the short post....


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