# Allen Edmonds Park Avenue lacing issue



## rorty (Sep 9, 2008)

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Recently I purchased a pair of these AE PAs in size 9 1/2 C. I have been wearing them around the office to determine whether the fit is correct before venturing out onto the unforgiving pavement. I wear hard plastic orthotics, which I placed in the shoes above the footbeds. The shoes feel quite snug, with just a hint of left-little-toe pain and a little, acceptable heel lift, due to my narrow heels. The only problem is visual: Since the orthotics cause my feet to be raised-up within the shoes, it impossible to draw the laces sufficiently tight to close the vamps over the shoe tongues. Rather than closing-up to create neat, parallel edges, the portions of the vamps with the lace holes are configured in "V" shapes, with 1 1/2" separations at the tops. In public, most of these portions of the shoes will be concealed by my trousers, but these non-parallel "Vs" look very weird to me. Has anyone else been plagued by the curse of orthotic-caused fat insteps leading to the non-parallel "Vs"? Would another shoe size eliminate the problem, if it's a problem at all? Am I being over-concerned by minutiae?


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

To be quite honest, I'm not too sure what you mean nor the method of tieing; take a picture? I think I might have this similair problem in my Park Avenue's though when I put my food into the shoe and it is untied. It looks like it opens up like a zipped, narrow at the end, but wide near the mouth (opening toward me). I use the straight bar tie method (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/straightbarlacing.htm) and when I tighten the laces, it automatically zips up and is perfectly straight.


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## stant62 (Aug 6, 2008)

Way too narrow. I think you need a 9.5E


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## tonylumpkin (Jun 12, 2007)

I don't wear orthotics, but with somewhat high arches, I have a similar problem with Park Avenues. They are made on the 5 last, which is one of Allen Edmonds narrowest. You definitely need to try a wider width or, at the least, try a model made on a wider fitting last.


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## msphotog (Jul 5, 2006)

At least a "D"...


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

stant62 said:


> Way too narrow. I think you need a 9.5E


Agreed.

One of the great revelations of my adult life is that I don't wear a 13D, as mommy taught me, but a 12EEE. While a minor blow to my ego, my feet are much happier.


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Nerev, he did show a picture, but perhaps it's not appearing when you view the page.

I've run into the same thing, though not so extreme. With bigger sizing I would worry about looseness around the toes and/or worsened heel slippage. But it might work.

Different last is more promising, and note that Allen-Edmonds has one or maybe two lasts designed with removable orthotics in mind. I don't know if it is possible to special-order a shoe like the PA on an Ashton-8 last, but it might be worth asking.


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## rorty (Sep 9, 2008)

*Wider shoes?*

If these shoes are too narrow, how does one account for the fact that the size 9 1/2 C shoes feel rather comfortable except for the slight heel lift due to my narrow heels? I have never worn anything wider than a C width in any shoe. Will I not "swim" in a wider shoe? Will I not get unacceptable heel lift?


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

You're right, I'm not sure why I didn't see the picture until just now ic12337:

I'm not sure a shoe width increase will do anything. When you get your feet measured, the width is the widest part of your foot, where the inside juts out. The problem seems to be that your foot is higher than the shoe was designed to be due to your orthotics thus pushing the whole top up. If you move to a bigger size, your heel will not fit properly either, but you may get more space on the top which can solve the bulging problem. You may want to consider MTM or bespoke to properly fit your feet, but it would be a lot more than a pair of PA's. I say give a call to AE first though and see what they recommend. I'm sure they run into this problem quite often with their customers.


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## rabidawg (Apr 14, 2009)

I size down a half size in length and up a size in my typical width with the PAs (from 8.5E to 8EEE).


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## Got Shell? (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't know if you'll achieve the proper fit going wider. Maybe a blucher would work better? Alden makes a captor blucher that would be a little more casual than a closed laced shoe, but most people won't notice.


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## rorty (Sep 9, 2008)

I just concluded a telephone conversation with "Deborah", a very fine customer service representative of Allen Edmonds. In essence, she said any increase in my shoe width would exacerbate my heel lift problem and would be no solution. She said Allen Edmonds shoes made on the "5 last" used for the Park Avenues and the company's other sleek balmoral styles are simply unable to accommodate customers who are required to use space-robbing orthotics. Most of these customers, in fact, suffer unacceptable pain at the tops of their insteps in addition to the aesthetic problem described in my original post in this thread. As such, trad-oriented, orthotics-wearing customers are forced to choose Allen Edwards blucher-style shoes, where shoe tongues are free to move upward to accommodate orthotics. These bluchers include the Delray, Clifton and Bel Air shoes, all being touted by Allen Edmonds as acceptable for business suit wear. Unfortunately, most of these shoes are not manufactured in my size, 9 1/2 C. However, since I have no instep pain I can keep my newly-beloved AE PAs if I can overcome the aesthetic problem. I can do so. Thank you to all forum members who helped me work through these issues.


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

^ According to their website, the Delray comes in 9.5C but other than that they seem to have a policy of making bluchers only in B, D, E, and EEE in most sizes. Maybe they think bluchers are adaptable enough so a C-foot can take either a B or a D? Interesting.


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## Ruslev (Mar 10, 2009)

Nerev said:


> To be quite honest, I'm not too sure what you mean nor the method of tieing; take a picture? I think I might have this similair problem in my Park Avenue's though when I put my food into the shoe and it is untied. It looks like it opens up like a zipped, narrow at the end, but wide near the mouth (opening toward me). I use the straight bar tie method (https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/straightbarlacing.htm) and when I tighten the laces, it automatically zips up and is perfectly straight.


Thanks for the link. I just bought my first pair of Park Avenues and I was unsure how to properly lace them up. Worked like a charm :icon_smile:


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Thats a lot of spread. I don't think they fit. Take 'em back.


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## doublebucklemonk (Feb 15, 2009)

Here are a couple other options you could try.

1. Try the AE Soho on the 0 last. It is still a black captoe, but the last has a taller instep than the 5. It is however, a little less classic looking than the PA.

2. Use a vamp stretcher. It is a shoe stretcher which can increase the height over the instep. I have tall feet, and have used these on quite a few of my shoes including my PAs. I, like you, had a crazy "V" thing going on. My top of the V was about an inch across, and after using the stretcher (half a dozen times over a few days), the top of the gap is now only about 1/4".

3. You could contact AE and see what it would cost to get a pair of the PAs on a combination last. They can build a shoe that uses an E width for the front of the shoe and a C width for the heel. That way, your heel won't slip, but you will get extra width in the front to stop the pinky toe pain and give you some extra height. Something to bear in mind is that the "width" isn't only the width of the shoe, it is also the height so increasing the width, will give you a taller shoe with more space for your orthotic.


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## MTM_Master? (Jul 8, 2009)

I am lucky enough to live very close to an allen edmonds factory store, and the staff has always been great about ordering in other sizes for me to try even though I am not going to buy them. Depeding on where you bought you shoes, I would return them, and see in they can bring in an array of sizes for you to try, and then you can go from there!
Good luck!


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