# For Me, the Holy Grail of Shoes: John Lobb Bespoke Button Dress Boots, ca. 1920



## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

In an effort to seperate myself from some of the Interchange discussion, I decided to post photos of my most recent acquisition, something we can all agree is quite nice. For me, this represents the absolute epitomy of shoes/boots, surpassing even Lobbs exotic skins. Having been born in the wrong era, these dress boots are exactly what I would want in a pair of dress boots.

These are bespoke John Lobbs from circa 1920. I will know the exact date when I get the provenance from Lobb on them. They are fitted with the original bespoke boot trees, which are in even better condition than the boots themselves. They are truly spectacular, if you like this style of dress boot, and I do!

Surpisingly, they fit essentially perfectly. The only question I have, and hopefully Mr. SATOR will see this thread and respond, is how does one more easily button these when putting them on? Is there a special tool created for that purpose because it is really challenging?

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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

The perfect tool for buttoning them: a wife.

Granted, yours won't be buttoning them for you after you sullied the china with your old shoe acquisition. Great looking shoes, though.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Preu Pummel said:


> . . . you sullied the china with your old shoe acquisition.


Sullied? I prefer 'enhanced.'


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## upr_crust (Aug 23, 2006)

*I believe that the tool in question is a button hook . . .*

In my childhood, I remember seeing my grandmother's vanity set, which included a tool that looked rather like a very large, heavy-duty crochet hook, which I was told, at the time, was a button hook, used for the buttoning of shoes. I never saw it in operation, unfortunately but I am sure that there are antique versions of said instrument floating around somewhere.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Button hooks are still pretty common. Try eBay.


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Antique silver shoe horn and button hook:

https://imageshack.us


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

This is why I love this forum. Not only will someone have the answer, but they will have a sample of what you need and can advise you where to find it! Thank you all!


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

these are really great loking boots and look very well looked after too


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

whomewhat said:


> Sullied? I prefer 'enhanced.'


Indeed, one has to stay focused on what is really important in life! I agree with your sense of priorities, whomwhat. (winks)


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

Damn, those are nice. Not sure where or why one would wear them, but they look fantastic.


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## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

Beautiful! In remarkable condition and that they're big enough to fit someone of our era is almost unheard of. I'm glad they've found a good home. Thanks for sharing.


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## mambo (Dec 29, 2007)

Love them!


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

Those are incredible. Do you actually intend to wear them, or just keep them on display somewhere?


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

I don't generally believe in collecting things that I cannot use. These are definitely for personal use. Tomorrow, for example, I am wearing them to church.


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## Adagio (Aug 2, 2007)

whomewhat said:


> I don't generally believe in collecting things that I cannot use. These are definitely for personal use. Tomorrow, for example, I am wearing them to church.


Whomewhat, those are absolutely stunning. The perfect accessory for the boots is on ebay at the moment. It ends in 10 hours, not quite fast enough to have it by tomorrow, but maybe for Church next Sunday.

Enjoy,

A


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

I appreciate the recommendations. As DocHolliday stated early on, "Button hooks are still pretty common." I am trying to decide which one to go with. I have found several that I am very interested in, including the set mentioned above. I also discovered that John Lobb actually sells button hooks, as well. I was browsing the site to see if I could find the cost for refurbishment services and found the button hooks. I think I will likely go with one of the ones on Ebay, however, as they are a better value. For church in the morning, I am utilizing one of my wife's knitting/crochet needles, which actually worked pretty well. This nice 93-year-old lady always sits by my family at church and she frequently comments on my attire, especially my shoes. Since she would have been around when these were in style, I am anxious to see what she thinks. I am not going to say anything, of course, rather, I will just sit there and see if she notices. I am quite certain she will.


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

Well, stop holding out; give us the dirt man! What's the story on those beautiful shoes? In case you've forgotten it's who, what, when, where, how and why.

Oh, and in case those are something close to an 11.5E please see the following:

Dear Customer:
There has been a problem with your account and it has been closed. Please contact clothesboy by pm with your address so the problem may be rectified as soon as possible.
The Button Boot Acquisition Team:icon_smile:



medwards said:


> Antique silver shoe horn and button hook:
> 
> https://imageshack.us


Medwards still scares me.



Concordia said:


> Damn, those are nice. Not sure where or why one would wear them, but *they look fantastic*.


Concordia, you've answered your own question.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Fabulous shoes, let's hope this is the start of a revival!


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

clothesboy said:


> Well, stop holding out; give us the dirt man! What's the story on those beautiful shoes? In case you've forgotten it's who, what, when, where, how and why.
> 
> Oh, and in case those are something close to an 11.5E please see the following:
> 
> ...


Yes, Medwards scares me, too. Amazing how fast he had the answer AND a picture as well.

As to the story, well, not much to tell there. They were listed on Ebay and I was the high bidder. The Seller did fail to mention they were Lobbs in the title, however, although he provided that information in his item description. The pictures were quite lousy, too, but his description was enough for me. Given the amount of bids and bidders it is clear enough people in the know realized what these were. Clearly, I just wanted them more given that my reserve bid was four times what I had to pay for them. I emailed him regarding the size and based on his representations to me believed them to be my approximate size, US size 10. The right boot fits perfectly, but the left is a bit snug on the sides. Since I am normally a wide width and these are bespoke, I am guessing the original owner had somewhere between normal (D) width and single E (US) wide width. I have long wanted a pair of vintage button boots and this seemed the perfect match for my wants and my needs. I would have paid my final bid just for the boots, in truth, and then made my own ankle boot trees to fit into them. The bonus, however, is that they came with Lobb bespoke boot trees and they fit together like a hand and glove. The trees are in like new condition. Quite the nice find and deal, in my opinion. More importantly, thank goodness they fit so I do not have to flip them and then hear all of the inevitable namecalling for making what would be a nice profit. Barring financial disaster and the sky falling, this will remain with me until death do we part! In fact, I have already fowarded pictures to John Lobb and have asked him about refurbishment costs and availability. I have also inquired into getting provenance for these so that I can determine the exact date of manufacture and maybe learn who had them commissioned. I am also going to purchase Lobb ankle boot bags for them.

I do want to take this opportunity to correct the record regarding a previous statement I made that was challenged by several shoe "experts." I stated that the Lobb facilities had been repeatedly bombed by the Nazis during WWII. This was challenged as being an "exageration." I note that the John Lobb website now contains this updated information:

"Lobb's has survived to ensure the present-day survival of the craft and of customers eager to follow in the footsteps of the famous. Neither the dark depression of the thirties nor *the German bombs of the Blitz (when Lobb premises were blown to bits six times)* could ultimately destroy the durability of the painstaking techniques passed down from one generation of craftsmen to another."

I will let all here decide for themselves if repeatedly, as I claimed, is an exageration of "blown to bits six times."

As to use, as you said, Concordia answered his own question. I wore them to church today and am wearing them again to dinner on Valentine's Day with my wife and two other couples. They will get plenty of "special ocassion" use, believe me.


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## Cordovan (Feb 1, 2008)

Great Shoes!

Cordovan


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

I'm sure that for a sizeable contingent button boots fall into the costume category but I remain a huge fan. Sator and Eustace Tilley are afficienados (?) as well. 

Did you ever see the Barrie biopic, Neverland (?). Starred Johnny Depp. He wears button boots. I tried to find out the story of the boots but it wasn't readily apparent and I didn't pursue it, maybe someone here knows.

I have to take exception to something you said, however. Plenty of special occasion use? You have the cart before the horse, Denny Crane.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

clothesboy said:


> I'm sure that for a sizeable contingent button boots fall into the costume category but I remain a huge fan. Sator and Eustace Tilley are afficienados (?) as well.


Some things transcend style and I believe button boots fall into this category. If the amount of comments I got at church today from people who have never even heard of John Lobb is any indication, these are dress boots, pure and simple. One look at them and it is easy to see the quality of them and the timeless style. If anyone thinks they are costume, and owns any, please allow me to take them off your hands.:icon_smile_big:


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

If anyone is interested, I can take pictures of the boot trees, too? I mean, I am a fanatic for boot trees, but I don't know about everyone else.


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## Eustace Tilley (Sep 23, 2007)

whomewhat said:


> If anyone is interested, I can take pictures of the boot trees, too? I mean, I am a fanatic for boot trees, but I don't know about everyone else.


Please do!

Amazing boots - I am very jealous.


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## Tiberias (Sep 25, 2007)

clothesboy said:


> I'm sure that for a sizeable contingent button boots fall into the costume category but I remain a huge fan. Sator and Eustace Tilley are afficienados (?) as well.


I will admit that I am in the "costume" category on this one. As my family is from the Mountain West, however, some of the old frontier clothes are the other way around for me. Cowboy boots, bolo ties, bandanas, etc., might be "costume" to other people but are legitimate clothing to me.


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## suitntieguy (Nov 1, 2007)

IMHO the best word I can come up with to describe those boots is inspiring

very well done indeed sir


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## rbstc123 (Jun 13, 2007)

Gorgeous. Absoulutely gorgeous. Stunning! as well. There is a weakspot in my heart for well crafted footwear. To me it is art. Not to mention suits and so on and so forth. The list goes on.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Eustace Tilley said:


> Please do!
> 
> Amazing boots - I am very jealous.


Still without a proper button hook, I decided to photograph only one of the trees since I need to unbutton and then re-button these to take them out and place them back in. I have been working for many hours over the last few days assisting my 13-year-old son on his social science paper so I told him I needed a break that was both relaxing and "fun" for me. These pictures, and posting them here, are it! It is a sad life some of us lead when we find ourselves obsessed with such things as vintage boots! This is also my best effort to refrain from posting in the Interchange, for at least a few days, as it has gotten rather hot over there lately.

For Mr. *Eustace Tilley . . . *

The crown jewels, thus far, of my vintage boot collection. The others are either not vintage, or are shoes, which do not count for this post!

Starting with the John Lobb Button Boots and working clockwise: 
JL button boots (right), Crockett & Jones Blenheim (left), and 
as yet "unknown" English-made leather/suede boots. (top)


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

whomewhat said:


> Still without a proper button hook, I decided to photograph only one of the trees since I need to unbutton and then re-button these to take them out and place them back in. I have been working for many hours over the last few days assisting my 13-year-old son on his social science paper so I told him I needed a break that was both relaxing and "fun" for me. These pictures, and posting them here, are it! It is a sad life some of us lead when we find ourselves obsessed with such things as vintage boots! This is also my best effort to refrain from posting in the Interchange, for at least a few days, as it has gotten rather hot over there lately.
> 
> For Mr. *Eustace Tilley . . . *
> 
> ...


all these boots are lovely you lucky so so!


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## fullgrain (Jan 5, 2007)

> Surpisingly, they fit essentially perfectly. The only question I have, and hopefully Mr. SATOR will see this thread and respond, is how does one more easily button these when putting them on? Is there a special tool created for that purpose because it is really challenging?


Isn't that why the zipper was invented?:icon_smile:

Seriously, lovely boots and trees.


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

whomewhat said:


> The crown jewels, thus far, of my vintage boot collection. The others are either not vintage, or are shoes, which do not count for this post!
> 
> Starting with the John Lobb Button Boots and working clockwise:
> JL button boots (right), Crockett & Jones Blenheim (left), and
> as yet "unknown" English-made leather/suede boots. (top)


To think I almost placed a bid for the very same boots :icon_smile_big: good thing they where not my size :devil: 
The suede boots are IMO somewhat reminiscent of a EG Shannon but there are wiser and more knowledgeable patrons of "the boot" here

Wear them all in good health, they are after all made for walking.

Thanks for sharing, your pictures are quite a lot better than the once I had previously seen.

Speed


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

Very nice indeed, I love them. I really mean that.

I saw these on Ebay and realized that the seller didn't quite realize what he had, Congratulations to you!

How do these boots compare to the vintage Lobb boots you sold last year. I mean as far as styling, quality, versatility, etc. I realize this is subjective but I was wondering which you prefer?

Just from the pictures and your descriptions, I like these better than the other pair and think these are more desirable. Especially with genuine vintage Lobb boot trees.

Good Luck with them and wear them well.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

rnoldh said:


> Very nice indeed, I love them. I really mean that.
> 
> I saw these on Ebay and realized that the seller didn't quite realize what he had, Congratulations to you!
> 
> ...


"Note the leading bidder. These boots might turn out to be priceless!"

"Originally Posted by *rnoldh*

_But are they priceless?_

They would have to be authenticated to be priceless"


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Wow! Those are ... priceless.

As already stated you can get button hooks easily on eBay. Nobody has any use for them now so they go fairly cheaply.


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

Sator said:


> Wow! Those are ... priceless.
> 
> As already stated you can get button hooks easily on eBay. Nobody has any use for them now so they go fairly cheaply.


Glad to see Sator agrees they are priceless.

In reality though maybe technically "not priceless", I do think they would be worth about $2500-3000 with an authentication/provenance from JL.

A nice and wise purchase.

And didn't you say that you were going to get them authenticated, or was it just to check into the provenance?

This would be the same thing of course. If you were to get a provenance from Lobb that would constitute an authentication.

Lighten up, you stole the boots, congrats on the purchase.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

rnoldh said:


> Lighten up, you stole the boots, congrats on the purchase.


First, what have I said that would require me to "lighten up," until what I am about to say? Is quoting you, verbatim, somehow offensive to you? If so, maybe _you_ should lighten up since they are only your own words.

Second, these boots were thoroughly discussed on the other site, with some even insuring that they would provide competitive bidding stating that they were "going to bid on them to provide a little competition." Any one of the many there who love to criticize me, to include you, could have bid on them and apparently chose not to or are all talk and no show, as I have long suspected. I had a substantial reserve bid in and was prepared to pay significantly more than I did, but thanks to the "internet tough guy" fantasy but real life "wimp" reality, none of them provided any real threat. So how exactly did I steal them?

You people are free to continually criticize me elsewhere without the other side every being heard, but then you come over here, too, and think you can provide commentary on my item without getting a response? This is AAAC and the mob rule mentality of banning anyone you cannot intellectually compete with in the arena of ideas does not apply here, thankfully. Don't think for one second you can constantly put me down or make backhanded compliments about my selling elsewhere and then come over here and comment as if we have been lifelong friends or presume to tell me to lighten up. I do not believe in trite platitudes. I started this thread to share my acquisition with my AAAC friends, of which you are not one. You, and your friends, need a reality check.


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

whomewhat said:


> First, what have I said that would require me to "lighten up," until what I am about to say? Is quoting you, verbatim, somehow offensive to you?
> 
> * No it's not, unless taken out of context. *
> 
> ...


*
No we are not lifelong friends nor shall ever be friends, which is fine. In this thread I have been sincere, positive, and objective. And while a long time ago I might have been somewhat critical , I was also somewhat complimentary, I was one of the few Sfers that was also somewhat positive. I consistently praised your eye for Ebay bargains as a buyer, and your ability to sell high as an Ebay seller. *
*
If you are too tightly wound to accept positive comments from me, I suggest you use your "ignore" feature for my posts.

I really hope you enjoy your vintage JLs. I like them a lot as does Sator and many others here.
*


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

Am I missing something here? I thought this thread was about boots. Nice boots, by the way!


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

They are very nice boots.

I think that he doesn't like it when I say they are "Priceless", or that he "Stole them"

I guess others can use those terms, not I which is OK.

My last words on the subject will be:

These are very nice vintage JL boots of substantial value.

They were bought quite wisely at an excellent price.

C'est la vie


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

I can't figure out why in the hell somebody would want to own somebody else's bespoke boots. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. I also don't get why button boots are all the rage or why rnoldh, who is about as nice a guy as you will find on these boards, is having to suffer through such a load of doo-doo.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Self-deleted. This was my thread about a nice pair of Lobbs and I will not let it be hijacked. If those attacking me want to continue, let's move to the Interchange.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Self-deleted. This was my thread about a nice pair of Lobbs and I will not let it be hijacked. If those attacking me want to continue, let's move to the Interchange.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

This thread has to be eligible for some sort of award. "Most Stunning Non-Sequitur," maybe, or "Bizarre Segue (Footwear Division)."


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

As the OP of this thread, I would ask the moderators to please lock it. Those individuals that I knew would appreciate the vintage Lobbs, that would enjoy the photos, have now had the opportunity to view them and comment. It is now becoming a venue for personal attacks, which diminishes the original intent.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Confucious say, "a fish only gets caught, when it takes the bait!" (winks)


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> Confucious say, "a fish only gets caught, when it takes the bait!" (winks)


Still no excuse to bait people!

Whomewhat, you have a gorgeous collection of vintage boots, and your newly acquired JLs are the best yet - very well done!

LM


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> Confucious say, "a fish only gets caught, when it takes the bait!" (winks)


The Portuguese say, sometimes when fishing for tuna we hook a great white, so use care when reeling in your catch. :devil:


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

iammatt said:


> I also don't get why button boots are all the rage


You occasionally use the phrase "get or don't get" when referring to out-of-the-ordinary articles of clothing, so this is a concept you should understand: you just don't get button boots.

I doubt I will ever order a pair myself (though I will certainly get more balmoral boots before my feet turn gangrenous), but I can certainly appreciate their charm.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Personally, I was not aware that button boots were "all the rage," rather, I just happen to like them a lot and know that a few here (Sator, Eustace Tilley) share my taste for them. I posted them for the like-minded, not the close-minded. Note the first portion of the thread title: * For Me,* the Holy Grail of Shoes.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

manton said:


> You occasionally use the phrase "get or don't get" when referring to out-of-the-ordinary articles of clothing, so this is a concept you should understand: you just don't get button boots.
> 
> I doubt I will ever order a pair myself (though I will certainly get more balmoral boots before my feet turn gangrenous), but I can certainly appreciate their charm.


I would say that I completely "get" button boots, much in the way that i "get" sock garters .


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

iammatt said:


> I would say that I completely "get" button boots, much in the way that i "get" sock garters .


No, no. Apples and oranges. Sock garters do indeed look assinine; we don't disagree there. It's just that one of us is cheap enough to sacrifice some measure of dignity in order to get more use out of some otherwise still-wearable socks.

We disagree about the asthetics of button boots. I think they look great.


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## kogvos (Feb 5, 2008)

whomewhat said:


> Personally, I was not aware that button boots were "all the rage," rather, I just happen to like them a lot and know that a few here (Sator, Eustace Tilley) share my taste for them. I posted them for the like-minded, not the close-minded. Note the first portion of the thread title: *For Me,* the Holy Grail of Shoes.


I've been admiring these for days - ever since you posted them. Now that you've posted pics of your other boots I am quite jealous. Alas, I am far too conservative and timid to actually wear such splendid footwear, as much as I'd love to.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

manton said:


> You occasionally use the phrase "get or don't get" when referring to out-of-the-ordinary articles of clothing, so this is a concept you should understand: you just don't get button boots.
> 
> They are (traditionally, and with gray/dove covering) de riguer for morining/stroller get up; yes, Mike?
> 
> I doubt I will ever order a pair myself (though I will certainly get more balmoral boots before my feet turn gangrenous), but I can certainly appreciate their charm.


Gotta get me some when the GBP eases a bit--surely in advance of your measuring time, one
would hope and pray, Mike.


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

iammatt said:


> I also don't get why button boots are all the rage.





Sator; Location: Sydney said:


> Wow! Those are ... priceless.





kogvos; Location: Sydney said:


> I've been admiring these for days - ever since you posted them.


It might be infectious, or it's in the water.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

They're definitely a step up from spats (which,IMO look really inane and costumey these days- and they didn't look so great when they were popular). I probably wouldn't get any with cream cloth tops, but in a lighter (tan) suede, they'd be completely wearable. That said, I think a balmoral laced boot (with either a self top or some slight variation between the top and bottom) is a much more practical (read as wearable) shoe.


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## Eustace Tilley (Sep 23, 2007)

whomewhat said:


> Still without a proper button hook, I decided to photograph only one of the trees since I need to unbutton and then re-button these to take them out and place them back in. I have been working for many hours over the last few days assisting my 13-year-old son on his social science paper so I told him I needed a break that was both relaxing and "fun" for me. These pictures, and posting them here, are it! It is a sad life some of us lead when we find ourselves obsessed with such things as vintage boots! This is also my best effort to refrain from posting in the Interchange, for at least a few days, as it has gotten rather hot over there lately.
> 
> For Mr. *Eustace Tilley . . . *
> 
> ...


Wow - I am in awe :aportnoy::aportnoy::aportnoy:


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

yachtie said:


> I probably wouldn't get any with cream cloth tops, but in a lighter (tan) suede, they'd be completely wearable.


I agree completely and have contacted Lobb about the cost in doing just that, although I am not fully committed as yet given the current condition of these. I would hate to change anything unless I really had to.


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## kogvos (Feb 5, 2008)

*A carbuncle on a boot?*



bengal-stripe said:


> It might be infectious, or it's in the water.


It can't be the water. We don't have any. Although we do bathe in Perrier sparkling mineral water.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

kogvos said:


> It can't be the water. We don't have any. Although we do bathe in Perrier sparkling mineral water.


It has been raining a fair bit of late though. Nothing like London as yet but I've been able to give my James Smith brollies a bit of a workout. You know you lived in a drought afflicted area when you welcome the rain and think "hurrah, I can bring out my English brollies!"


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## Nantucket Red (Jan 26, 2006)

Why would you want bespoke boots made for someone else?


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Nantucket Red said:


> Why would you want bespoke boots made for someone else?


They are vintage, beautiful, and unusual. Based on the measurements that I obtained from the seller in advance of bidding, they appeared to be my size. Since I have had 7 foot surgeries and really cannot wear any shoes comfortably for any period of time, getting something that is unique and relatively comfortable is more important to me. Finally, they are a lot less expensive than personal bespoke, which even if they fit me perfectly, would still be uncomfortable with all of my foot problems, so would make no sense, for me.

Now, I am in the process of ordering a pair of MTO Edward Green Shannons through Leather Soul; a black calf/black suede combination, but even if they fit perfectly, I would still only be able to use them for short periods of time. I got these for significantly less than the Edward Greens are going to cost me and the EG will not be any more comfortable, no matter what. This works for me.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

rnoldh said:


> Very nice indeed, I love them. I really mean that.
> 
> I saw these on Ebay and realized that the seller didn't quite realize what he had, Congratulations to you!
> 
> ...


It will not make any difference, nor do I care to address others whose comments are beyond contemptable, but I owe you an apology and I owe it to you publicly. I should have simply answered you, given you the benefit of the doubt, and I did not. I continue to agree that we will never be friends given the amount of bad blood, but as long as your comments or questions are legitimate, they deserved a legitimate answer and I did not give one. So to you Mr. rnoldh, and for this particular instance of incivility, I humbly apologize.


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## kogvos (Feb 5, 2008)

*Bring on the rain...*



Sator said:


> It has been raining a fair bit of late though. Nothing like London as yet but I've been able to give my James Smith brollies a bit of a workout. You know you lived in a drought afflicted area when you welcome the rain and think "hurrah, I can bring out my English brollies!"


Ooh yes... simply stunning brollies. I love their solid stick varieties.


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

whomewhat said:


> It will not make any difference, nor do I care to address others whose comments are beyond contemptable, but I owe you an apology and I owe it to you publicly. I should have simply answered you, given you the benefit of the doubt, and I did not. I continue to agree that we will never be friends given the amount of bad blood, but as long as your comments or questions are legitimate, they deserved a legitimate answer and I did not give one. So to you Mr. rnoldh, and for this particular instance of incivility, I humbly apologize.


Noted and appreciated.

As you've said we can certainly be civil, and you are a very much a distinguished gentleman in this case.

As to the OP and my questions. My belief is that these are extremely nice boots with the Lobb trees as lagniappe. What you said to Nantucket Red makes sense to me. I'm sure Leather Soul will provide you with a fine value on the EGs, but in a strict value case I think the vintage boots will be hard to beat as you've noted.

As to the comparison of the your vintage Lobbs, I'll attempt to answer my own question. I think these are preferable given that the others were initially skates and did not have Lobb trees. I believe you paid a bit more for these, than the others, but the condition, the style, and again the Lobb trees make them more preferable IMO.

I hope you take this in the right spirit. I've consistently said that you have a great eye to find distinctive, highly desirable items at a below market price. That is an admirable skill.

The purchase of these boots is a wonderful example of the above. Enjoy them and wear them well.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Eustace Tilley said:


> Wow - I am in awe :aportnoy::aportnoy::aportnoy:


I am in awe of your *Edward Green Top Drawer Boot(s) *posted elsewhere and wonder when you are going to provide an opportunity for us to see them and comment here? The color combination is truly unique and the shade of brown used for the leather is superb. Although I like the cloth pattern used, frankly, it is almost irrelvant since it is only seen when seated so for anyone who might find them a little gutsy, I think they are incredibly appropriate for what you did. I am going more traditional myself, with the black calf/black suede combination, but one could not go wrong with your choice.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

rnoldh said:


> Noted and appreciated.
> 
> As you've said we can certainly be civil, and you are a very much a distinguished gentleman in this case.
> 
> ...


I failed to answer your question about the other boots, not because I was being evasive, but because I did not want to detract or destract from my apology.

On the issue of the boots, I did truly love the look of them on and would have liked to have kept them. In fact, immediately after selling them, I contacted the buyer and told him that if he tired of them, decided he did not want them, etc., that I would gladly take them back. I have not heard back from him on that offer.

The main problem, aside from the discomfort in wearing them (but that is the case with all my shoes) was the amount of time it took me to get them on. You literally had to loosen the strings all the way down in order to slide your foot into them. Then, you had to re-string and tighten them and it was very difficult. In addition to my foot problems, I have suffered from arthritis since I was at least 26 years of age. It is most notably painful in my back and the strain to my back in putting them on was not worth the effort. If I were to get them back, I think I would just include them as part of my collection, which I am generally opposed to (if I cannot use it I do not want it).

The other issues are not worth addressing for me at length because some will never accept what I have to say on the subject. Suffice it to say that I discovered these forums during the process of my selling the previous Lobb boots. Prior to that, I had not heard of these forums much less participated in them. Nonetheless, I was able to acquire the boots in question and hundreds of other items, all on my own, so the issue is really quite silly. In the last several weeks I have sold or am selling many items that I have acquired entirely on my own, none of which have ever been discussed in any of the forums because my source for them would be foreign to them. On occassion our sources cross lines and you would think it happens daily to read the discussions. It happens, at best, every few weeks and usually ever few months. The rest of the time my sources are my own, but I do not hear any talk about that, with the exception, interestingly enough, of you and a couple of others I am friendly with.

As my tag says: "Some things are true whether you believe in them or not."


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

Yes, I see your point about the boots. The first pair of boots were different in that they had the strings.

As to your acquisitions that is a non issue too. How and where you acquire things is your own business. I think you see now that I genuinely admire your acquisition skills. Sorry if that sometime blurred into other issues and was misconstrued by me.

As I said in a post that was seen by you, I'm sure. If something negative is said about someone, consider the source! Don't let any ones negative posts bother you. Enough said about that.

A funny story is that I'm really a very infrequent Ebay buyer and not an Ebay seller. As you know I really like Vicuna. A while back there was a 90/10 blend Vicuna overcoat for sale on Ebay. I really considered bidding on it, but since I live in Houston, Tx. (and already own Vicuna coats), I passed on bidding. I saw that you had bid on the coat and won it for a great price. I think you can see that i"m sincere when I say that "You stole that coat!". And I know Vicuna. I hope you're enjoying it. When I decided not to bid, it was not my concern who won it, and I'm glad it was you. 

Sorry for the diversion and back to the OP. As I keep repeating, the button boots are great, but the bespoke Lobb trees (in perfect condition), are what makes them really special to me. The trees are just as cool as the boots to me. It's your call not mine but I would be reticent in restoring the canvass tops (you said you've inquired about that from Lobb). To me, part of the great attraction of vintage items is their history and wear. The button boots certainly looked wearable in the photos. While there are probably some Lobb boots around from the 1920s, I would think that there are very few Lobb boots with their bespoke trees left from the 1920s. To me this is a big attraction.

Your boot collection is really cool. Perhaps you'll find some other gems like these button boots. If anyone can do it, it is you.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

rnoldh said:


> A funny story is that I'm really a very infrequent Ebay buyer and not an Ebay seller. As you know I really like Vicuna. A while back there was a 90/10 blend Vicuna overcoat for sale on Ebay. I really considered bidding on it, but since I live in Houston, Tx. (and already own Vicuna coats), I passed on bidding. I saw that you had bid on the coat and won it for a great price. I think you can see that i"m sincere when I say that "You stole that coat!". And I know Vicuna. I hope you're enjoying it. When I decided not to bid, it was not my concern who won it, and I'm glad it was you.


The coat you speak of, while in nice shape, was not in what I would call "dress" shape and so it has become a daily use coat for me. Unlike you, I live in an area where is gets down to at least the 20's nightly and sometimes way below that. It was actually "warm" today, hitting 49 degrees yet we still have signifcant amounts of snow on the ground. Anyway, I am glad I was able to get it, too, since it is getting a great deal of use. Like I said, I have bad arthritis and the cold is not exactly my friend so the warmer the coat the better.

Case in point--one of my miniature dachshunds playing in our backyard. Her and her 'sister' made a tunnel through 4 feet of snow to get to where that tree is!

https://www.freeimagehosting.net/

It just doesn't seem right to post a picture of one without the other!

https://www.freeimagehosting.net/


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

For those like-minded who find these things of interest, I have obtained the provenance for these boots and trees and it turns out they are not quite as old as previously believed, which might explain the condition, although my previous Lobbs turned out to be older and the leather had not deteriorated so I suppose it depends on the care given. In any event they were ordered on 29th November 1948. Mr. Lobb "thinks" the legs are made of Box cloth, which is an unfamiliar term to me. He states further: "We keep such boots going by patching the uppers when required. I don't recall ever replacing legs because by then the foot part is usually worn out and the boots have come to the end of their life. Resoling and rewelting are something we do quite regularly and, of course, it is all handwork. Replacing legs would be an expensive job."


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Costume wear or an alternative dress boot?

https://www.freeimagehosting.net/

https://www.freeimagehosting.net/

https://www.freeimagehosting.net/

https://www.freeimagehosting.net/

https://www.freeimagehosting.net/


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

^^^ In all honesty, not only are they costume, but they are also hideous.


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## Bird's One View (Dec 31, 2007)

*I like them*

Is that a fine stripe in the trousers or a herringbone? (Or both?) I think these could stand up to a bolder stripe if you go for that sort of thing. I suspect I'd also like them with uncuffed trousers, probably even better with an angled hem (can't remember the technical term; I mean hemmed like formal trousers, a bit longer in the back).

I'm thinking in the direction of American old west morning dress, with a top hat with a wider-than-usual brim. Somehow I don't see any of this as "costume."

In any case, great boots.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

iammatt said:


> ^^^ In all honesty, not only are they costume, but they are also hideous.


It is nice to see that you do not allow personal animus ("This guy is a f***ing maniac.") to enter into your evaluation. Your feelings on the subject are rather obvious and your continued negative input pitifully redundant, but if it is some form of therapeutic plan that you are following then by all means continue to provide useless commentary in a thread that you have made clear is something you are hostile towards.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

whomewhat said:


> It is nice to see that you do not allow personal animus ("This guy is a f***ing maniac.") to enter into your evaluation. Your feelings on the subject are rather obvious and your continued negative input pitifully redundant, but if it is some form of therapeutic plan that you are following then by all means continue to provide useless commentary in a thread that you have made clear is something you are hostile towards.


Actually, I am quite open to changing my mind. I sort of get why people like the gray and black versions, even though they are obviously costume, but these look like a brown shoe with baby duck fur attached to the top. Whether you are a maniac (did I say that somewhere?) has nothing to do with the aesthetics of your shoe.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

iammatt said:


> Whether you are a maniac (did I say that somewhere?) has nothing to do with the aesthetics of your shoe.


"No words necessary."


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

It continues to be my opinion, even after the flurry of discussion in various fora, that the look of these is quite pleasing and I agree with Mr. Lobb's evaluation of them: "What a beautiful pair of button boots." That said, I am intrigued by the idea that Mr. Lobb cannot "recall ever replacing legs" on these [type] boots since "the foot part is usually worn out and the boots have come to the end of their life," making such a replacement moot. While it might be "an expensive job," as he noted, I would think having a customized pair in that regard would be worth pursuing. Part of the planning process includes the possiblity of changing the legs not only to a more traditional suede, but modifiying it from the current button boot to a more funtional, for me, lace-up boot. That would make them quite unique indeed and is enough of an incentive for me to go that route. But making that change would be for ease of use purposes only and not because I find anything about button boots, and these in particular, to be less than appropriate. Although the soles and heals are perfectly servicable as is, I will have him re-shape the uppers to new soles while I am making the other modifications. With the exception of the foot portion of the leather, which is what makes these boots so nice in the first place, everything else would be new and customized to my specifications. When the project is completed, I will post the pictures for the truly interested.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

When is a self-proclaimed "expert" a bloviating halfwit amadan? When one makes comments such as these:

"Why has no one brought up the cuffed denim trousers?"

"They're Brooks Brothers jeans."

I will admit that my picture taking skills need some work, but it is difficult to seriously consider the ad hominem criticism of others, to accept their opinion on fashion as valid, or to have your feelings in any way hurt by the ad hominem attacks, when they characterize Kiton Blanc Blu 180's as Brooks Brothers jeans or denim trousers! ROTFLOL! :stupid:


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

I always find it somewhat amusing when those casting the stones presume moral supremacy and tell the recipient to "chill." I sure hope you swallowed a bottle full of those yourself.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

whomewhat said:


> ...I would think having a customized pair in that regard would be worth pursuing. Part of the planning process includes the possiblity of changing the legs not only to a more traditional suede, but modifiying it from the current button boot to a more funtional, for me, lace-up boot. That would make them quite unique indeed and is enough of an incentive for me to go that route. But making that change would be for ease of use purposes only and not because I find anything about button boots, and these in particular, to be less than appropriate. Although the soles and heals are perfectly servicable as is, I will have him re-shape the uppers to new soles while I am making the other modifications. With the exception of the foot portion of the leather, which is what makes these boots so nice in the first place, everything else would be new and customized to my specifications. When the project is completed, I will post the pictures for the truly interested.


I would hope you are open to reconsider the thoughts regarding having the uppers replaced with a laced (vs a button) design. While a laced boot might prove more convenient to wear, the buttoned upper is what grants the subject pair of boots their unique character. A laced boot is going to be just another laced boot, albeit a John Lobb boot, not so special, as compared to a button boot! Just a thought...have a great day. :icon_smile:


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

+1
If you replace the tops with leather or suede and lace closures these will just be an expensive pair of used boots made for someone else. As is, the boots are interesting from a historical perspective and would probably be useful for lending to theater groups or prop shops. 

They are beautifully made though, and would be nice to keep around for display if you have the space.


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## Alexander & Overcharge (Feb 20, 2008)

whomewhat said:


> Mr. Lobb "thinks" the legs are made of Box cloth, which is an unfamiliar term to me.


Boxcloth was commonly used for three-season spats. (Summer spats were made of linen or canvas.)

Albert Thurston makes braces with a somewhat heavier boxcloth: https://www.albertthurston.com/categoryfast2.cfm?catid=4

The problem with boxcloth is that moths and silverfish find it irresistible: hence the small nibbles and bites on your boots' uppers.

.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

eagle2250 said:


> I would hope you are open to reconsider the thoughts regarding having the uppers replaced with a laced (vs a button) design. While a laced boot might prove more convenient to wear, the buttoned upper is what grants the subject pair of boots their unique character. A laced boot is going to be just another laced boot, albeit a John Lobb boot, not so special, as compared to a button boot! Just a thought...have a great day. :icon_smile:


Truthfully, I intially requested simply replacing the leg with suede and leaving the style exactly as is, to include re-using the original buttons. Mr. Lobb, to my surprise, indicated that they have never done this before since the entire shoe generally wears out and is thrown away before replacing the leg would become necessary. They patch the leg, but have never replaced one. The other idea was an attempt to facilitate replacing it and if it would be easier to make the change then that is far better, to me, than having nothing. They are fine, now, but at some point soon will not be, especially if I wear them and I am. I do not collect things I cannot use so leaving them as is would not really be an option. If Lobb can replace them as is, fine, but if the only way they will do it for me is to change it to fit one of their current Oxford captoe style boots with the lace-ups, then that is better than doing nothing at all, at least for me.


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## DocHolliday (Apr 11, 2005)

Nevermind -- my point is moot in the wake of whomewhat's last post, which wasn't there when I started typing.


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## Alexander & Overcharge (Feb 20, 2008)

Why do you wish to replace the boxcloth with suede? Is it because of the cloth's insect damage, or because you simply prefer suede? Boxcloth is easier to clean, BTW. On a practical note, it also keeps one's ankles warmer.

.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Your point about the box cloth is an excellent one. My main reason for the change is the look of the suede and my thought that it would be stronger and last longer. I suppose if a color/pattern could be found that I liked then box cloth would continue as a viable option.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

whomewhat said:


> Your point about the box cloth is an excellent one. My main reason for the change is the look of the suede and my thought that it would be stronger and last longer. I suppose if a color/pattern could be found that I liked then box cloth would continue as a viable option.


You're trying to turn antiquated, outdated footwear into something wearable. To be blunt, these boots are never going to look 'good', except for on a stage. Why reduce their value as well-preserved historical oddities in order to create a pair of ugly boots?


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

mafoofan said:


> You're trying to turn antiquated, outdated footwear into something wearable. To be blunt, these boots are never going to look 'good', except for on a stage. Why reduce their value as well-preserved historical oddities in order to create a pair of ugly boots?


The personal animus that you cross-fora members express is so transparent at this point as to be embarassing. No one in their right mind could possibly look at the photos and make such a ludicrous remark as "these boots are never going to look 'good'" unless of course you mean because they look incredible. These continued attacks, egged-on by the other fora have gotten so far out of control that none of you can be taken seriously anymore. Continue your inanity where it belongs because here it is required that you actually have something of value to contribute. Those who really know something about shoes and boots, those who make a living out of selling new shoes to many of you, all unanimously agree that these boots look spectacular. Frankly, the adage stands, that if a million people say a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

Lighten up, Francis.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

whomewhat said:


> The personal animus that you cross-fora members express is so transparent at this point as to be embarassing. No one in their right mind could possibly look at the photos and make such a ludicrous remark as "these boots are never going to look 'good'" unless of course you mean because they look incredible. These continued attacks, egged-on by the other fora have gotten so far out of control that none of you can be taken seriously anymore. Continue your inanity where it belongs because here it is required that you actually have something of value to contribute. Those who really know something about shoes and boots, those who make a living out of selling new shoes to many of you, all unanimously agree that these boots look spectacular. Frankly, the adage stands, that if a million people say a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing.


Here, dude. Have more.










Seriously, is it inconceivable that people don't like your boots?


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

whomewhat said:


> The personal animus that you cross-fora members express is so transparent at this point as to be embarassing. No one in their right mind could possibly look at the photos and make such a ludicrous remark as "these boots are never going to look 'good'" unless of course you mean because they look incredible. These continued attacks, egged-on by the other fora have gotten so far out of control that none of you can be taken seriously anymore. Continue your inanity where it belongs because here it is required that you actually have something of value to contribute. Those who really know something about shoes and boots, those who make a living out of selling new shoes to many of you, all unanimously agree that these boots look spectacular. Frankly, the adage stands, that if a million people say a stupid thing it is still a stupid thing.


"Cross-fora members??" Is that even a class worth distinguishing? What, only purebred Andylanders will do? Look, I don't think I was rude. I just gave my honest opinion. I even suggested that these boots are worth preserving as is because they are--as you say--"unusual."

If you think it's only worth listening to posters exclusive to this forum, I suggest you get out more.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

iammatt said:


> Here, dude. Have more.
> 
> Seriously, is it inconceivable that people don't like your boots?


I am a 48-year-old man with a wife and five children. "Dude" is a rather inappropriate salutation. When you leave adolescence, I am sure that will become clear to you.

Everyone has different tastes and will either like something or not. It is quite conceivable that some will not find this style of boot to their liking, but to suggest that these boots "are hideous" shows either a complete lack of understanding of fashion, OR, personal animus. I think we know the truth here, your protestations to the contrary.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

whomewhat said:


> I am a 48-year-old man with a wife and five children. "Dude" is a rather inappropriate salutation. When you leave adolescence, I am sure that will become clear to you.
> 
> Everyone has different tastes and will either like something or not. It is quite conceivable that some will not find this style of boot to their liking, but to suggest that these boots "are hideous" shows either a complete lack of understanding of fashion, OR, personal animus. I think we know the truth here, your protestations to the contrary.


Whatever, dude. If you look at my posts about button boots all around the net, you will see that I find them all ridiculous. I don't believe that I was even involved in the Great Iceskating Caper at StyleForum, so you can trust that my animosity does not come from that episode. Anyway, I find the boots fugly, but you are too much fun for words. As for an "understanding of fashion", that is not something to which I aspire, especially when it comes to fuzzy button boots.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

iammatt said:


> Whatever, dude. If you look at my posts about button boots all around the net, you will see that I find them all ridiculous. I don't believe that I was even involved in the Great Iceskating Caper at StyleForum, so you can trust that my animosity does not come from that episode. Anyway, I find the boots fugly, but you are too much fun for words. As for an "understanding of fashion", that is not something to which I aspire, especially when it comes to fuzzy button boots.


Are you seriously mentally handicapped or something? Your opinion is not wanted, it does not matter, and it is of less consequence to me than your very existance. Don't go away mad, just go away.


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## Alexander & Overcharge (Feb 20, 2008)

.
Whomewhat, I think your boots are terrific. Thank you for sharing them!

It's true that nowhere in this thread do you specifically ask for my opinion or anyone else's. Which is all well and good: your desire --and a generous one at that-- is to share with us a pair of boots you like very much. No more, no less.

Since opinions haven't been invited, it's hardly gentlemanly of us to hurl ours about like bulls in a cobbler's shop. A rule of thumb: if we can't resist giving _unsolicited_ opinions, let them be positive at least. Otherwise, mum's the word.

Just my opinion, of course. 

.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

Alexander & Overcharge said:


> .
> Whomewhat, I think your boots are terrific. Thank you for sharing them!
> 
> It's true that nowhere in this thread do you specifically ask for my opinion or anyone else's. Which is all well and good: your desire --and a generous one at that-- is to share with us a pair of boots you like very much. No more, no less.
> ...


I appreciate your rather perceptive observations about proper behavior generally, but their is much more going on here than some simply providing their opinion. These are people from other fora who harbour an almost unnatural sadism toward me. I have no problem with like-minded people providing their comments in an effort to share information and provide ideas that may assist others, to include myself. But when people seek you out for the sole purpose of criticizing anything you do, well, it is just petty, immature, and silly. They like for their comments made here to be perceived in a vacuum without consideration being given to the many other comments they make elsewhere. The comments they make here usually contain veiled references to comments elsewhere, but never directly, thus allowing for the allusion that their intentions are honorable. Those who have no honor, however, cannot act honorably. They have built up this enormously overblown opinion of themselves and their own self-worth and truly spend every minute of every waking day criticizing anyone who dares to offend their delicate senses. They are more of an annoyance really, like a mosquito sucking his fill of your blood before he moves on, leaving you with a minor skin irritation. I am sure their mothers, if still alive, are deeply proud of their inherited ability to continually try and tear other human beings down so that they can build themselves up, as they suppose. It is all they have, really, so I occasionally throw them a bone to insure they do not fade away into their otherwise cesspool existence. We should pity them, but never be influenced by them. They will eventually find another hobby, like torturing puppies or possibly burning the American flag and then they will quickly forget about their wasted participation here. In the meantime, as long as you have received all of the requisite inoculations against disease, they pose no real threat.


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## mambo (Dec 29, 2007)

It's been a shame to see the way this thread has degenarated. Unfortunately much of the blame has to go to the original poster who has looked for negatives where maybe they didn't exist and has risen to the bait instead of rising above it as he could well do owning such a marvelous item obtained for a song.

Of course they may not be to some people's taste, but nobody can deny that especially with the addition of the shoe trees they are a tad special.

I certainly would not change anything about these boots. Any restoration for me would have to be to original spec in order to keep them historically accurate.

I also thought they looked awful with the turnups on the trousers and tghought the trouser colour was wrong for them.

Still love the boots though!


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

whomewhat said:


> I appreciate your rather perceptive observations about proper behavior generally, but their is much more going on here than some simply providing their opinion. These are people from other fora who harbour an almost unnatural sadism toward me. I have no problem with like-minded people providing their comments in an effort to share information and provide ideas that may assist others, to include myself. But when people seek you out for the sole purpose of criticizing anything you do, well, it is just petty, immature, and silly. They like for their comments made here to be perceived in a vacuum without consideration being given to the many other comments they make elsewhere. The comments they make here usually contain veiled references to comments elsewhere, but never directly, thus allowing for the allusion that their intentions are honorable. Those who have no honor, however, cannot act honorably. They have built up this enormously overblown opinion of themselves and their own self-worth and truly spend every minute of every waking day criticizing anyone who dares to offend their delicate senses. They are more of an annoyance really, like a mosquito sucking his fill of your blood before he moves on, leaving you with a minor skin irritation. I am sure their mothers, if still alive, are deeply proud of their inherited ability to continually try and tear other human beings down so that they can build themselves up, as they suppose. It is all they have, really, so I occasionally throw them a bone to insure they do not fade away into their otherwise cesspool existence. We should pity them, but never be influenced by them. They will eventually find another hobby, like torturing puppies or possibly burning the American flag and then they will quickly forget about their wasted participation here. In the meantime, as long as you have received all of the requisite inoculations against disease, they pose no real threat.


Actually, before this thread, I had no idea who you were. But, wow, the cheese has _totally_ slid off your cracker.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

mafoofan said:


> Actually, before this thread, I had no idea who you were. But, wow, the cheese has _totally_ slid off your cracker.


Whatever makes you feel better about yourself. I only hope that the behavior I see here, this sick need to tear people down and attack everything they say, is limited to the individuals involved and that it is not behavior that they are teaching their children if, heaven forbid, they should have any. If your remark makes you feel like a man, if you think it makes you a better husband, father, son, brother, or creation of God, please continue.



mafoofan said:


> If you think it's only worth listening to posters exclusive to this forum, I suggest you get out more.


What I think is that the inane vitriol that is the engine that runs dialogue elsewhere is beginning to creep into this forum, where discussion of fashion has always been the default position. It is no different than some who belong to one religious faith or another, where the rules don't meet to the lowered standards of some. They want the church to change rather than simply going elsewhere, where they are free to behave as they wish. This forum has rules, rules that some do not like, but instead of being satisfied with gathering with their like-minded friends in other internet discussion sites, or, conforming with the rules when here, they try to stir things up. I bought a pair of boots. I shared them with those here I knew would enjoy them. Others then came and did everything they could to disrupt the discussion some of us wanted to have. If that makes you and others proud, great.



mambo said:


> It's been a shame to see the way this thread has degenarated. Unfortunately much of the blame has to go to the original poster who has looked for negatives where maybe they didn't exist and has risen to the bait instead of rising above it as he could well do owning such a marvelous item obtained for a song.


Have I been baited here? Yes. Have I taken the bait? Some will think yes while others may understand what is really going on. Whatever your position, I came here and made a post like anyone else. I guess that would make me a fish swimming in the lake because that is what we do here. Some then tried to bait me, which is not allowed in this particular thread, and now some want to blame me, not those who hijacked the thread. For some to acknowledge that my initial post was legitimate, that I was baited, but then fault me for what has transpired thereafter, well, that is pretty much like blaming the fish for swimming in the lake. Go back, way back. I asked the moderators to lock this thread, both publicly and through private messaging. They exercised their discretion and chose to leave it open. After that, some valuable discussion did take place, supporting the decision of the moderators, but as I knew would eventually happen again, those wanting to dump poison into the water have returned. I apologized, publicly, to rnoldh for reasons I explained at the time, but I offer no apology for responding to those currently attacking me as it is not in my nature to be a victim. If some do not like my response to negative attacks the solution is clear: stop the negative attacks. For those who think it is just fine for others to attack me and I am not allowed to defend myself, or, it somehow reflects poorly on me when I do, well, I would refer you to my earlier post where I explained what happened when bullies and thugs attacked my then teenage son with a knife at school. I do not start fights, but I do finish them. And if I think I am wrong, as I believed I was with rnoldh, then I am man enough to admit I am wrong and apologize. When the rest of you can make that claim and behave accordingly, tell me how to respond. For now, keep believing you are gentleman, keep dicussing your supremacy on all things, and continue to believe that you build something of value and worth when you tear others down.

From the Jim Carrey movie, "Liar, Liar."

Greta:

"Several years ago,
a friend had a burglar on her roof.

He fell through the skylight, landed on
a butcher's knife, cutting his leg.

The burglar sued my friend.
He sued my friend !

Because of guys like you, he won !

My friend had to pay the burglar $5000.
ls that justice?"

Mr. Reede:

"No. l'd have got him ten."


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## jjl5000 (May 14, 2006)

It is perhaps a little late in the thread given it's apparent demise but I wanted to add...

Great boots! I am rather partial to balmoral boots although I can certainly appreciate these vintage buttons.

Thanks for sharing.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

First of all, you're welcome.

Secondly: Whoa, don't go postal...

More constructively, I know someone who did order button boots from both Lobb St James and, I believe, Tony Gaziano while he was doing bespoke at Edward Green. I personally would find it difficult to wear such items, but he managed with aplomb. 

I've been told "box cloth" is a fancy word for felt, as the suspender makers and other folks who use box cloth thought plain felt to be too unromantic a term.

Those of us who are not cross-fora (!) members are folks like Captain Ron in the Interchange, and actually I can see you getting along.


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## mambo (Dec 29, 2007)

whomewhat said:


> Have I been baited here? Yes. Have I taken the bait? Some will think yes while others may understand what is really going on. Whatever your position, I came here and made a post like anyone else. I guess that would make me a fish swimming in the lake because that is what we do here. Some then tried to bait me, which is not allowed in this particular thread, and now some want to blame me, not those who hijacked the thread. For some to acknowledge that my initial post was legitimate, that I was baited, but then fault me for what has transpired thereafter, well, that is pretty much like blaming the fish for swimming in the lake. Go back, way back. I asked the moderators to lock this thread, both publicly and through private messaging. They exercised their discretion and chose to leave it open. After that, some valuable discussion did take place, supporting the decision of the moderators, but as I knew would eventually happen again, those wanting to dump poison into the water have returned. I apologized, publicly, to rnoldh for reasons I explained at the time, but I offer no apology for responding to those currently attacking me as it is not in my nature to be a victim. If some do not like my response to negative attacks the solution is clear: stop the negative attacks. For those who think it is just fine for others to attack me and I am not allowed to defend myself, or, it somehow reflects poorly on me when I do, well, I would refer you to my earlier post where I explained what happened when bullies and thugs attacked my then teenage son with a knife at school. I do not start fights, but I do finish them


Whilst I understand the motives for not wanting to back down, the main point in my post was "rise above", sometimes the best reply to ignorance - that you obviously feel some of the replies border on - is silence. 
On a forum, it is far too easy to bait people, especially if you know you will get a reaction. It is also too easy to try to refute every perceived slant to the point where a) You begin to look like the trouble-maker even if you are not. b) Begin to look wrong even if you are in the right c) Just look as if you are whining.

I am sorry the thread went this way as had it gone in it's original direction it would have been more informative. The best way to deal with baiters is a reply along the lines " yes I see and understand your point/respect your views, thanks for taking part in the thread." This effectively kills any further participation by baiters/trolls etc.

These boots are causing you far too much grief. I will do you a favour and take them off your hands. I am sure I can get my size 43 feet into them!:icon_smile_wink:


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

:icon_headagainstwal

This is like a car wreck. I can't not look at it, but it makes me nauseous.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Mark from Plano said:


> :icon_headagainstwal


+1!!!


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## Alexander & Overcharge (Feb 20, 2008)

RJman said:


> I've been told "box cloth" is a fancy word for felt, ...


And _I've_ been told that "box cloth" is, in fact, one word: boxcloth.

Don't go postal on _that _point. 

.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

I originally wrote the following, emphasis added, when I started this thread:

"In an effort to seperate myself from some of the Interchange discussion, I decided to post photos of my most recent acquisition, *something we can all agree is quite nice.* *For me,* this represents the absolute epitomy of shoes/boots, surpassing even Lobbs exotic skins.

They are truly spectacular, *if you like this style of dress boot, and I do!"*

In retrospect, I guess those remarks were just too provocative and controversial for some. All of my opponents are entirely correct. What was I thinking, I mean, opening up a thread with such hostile words was just asking for trouble. And then posting pictures of the boots, pictures that were clearly going to offend some given thier completely inappropriate nature. Clearly, John Lobb Bespoke Button Boots is a completely misplaced item to discuss in a fashion forum. My bad.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Mark from Plano said:


> :icon_headagainstwal
> 
> This is like a car wreck. I can't not look at it, but it makes me nauseous.


C'mon, man. This thread delivers. Who doesn't like a good trainwreck every now and again? Seriously, you can't find people like this in the real world.


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## Mark from Plano (Jan 29, 2007)

iammatt said:


> C'mon, man. This thread delivers. Who doesn't like a good trainwreck every now and again? Seriously, you can't find people like this in the real world.


I meant nauseous in a good way.


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## XdryMartini (Jan 5, 2008)

This is more entertaining than Oprah talking about politics and reality TV on the Jerry Springer show!!! :deadhorse-a:


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Mark from Plano said:


> I meant nauseous in a good way.


. Perhaps I should have said, this thread Deliverance :devil:.


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

iammatt said:


> Whatever, dude. If you look at my posts about button boots all around the net, you will see that I find them all ridiculous. I don't believe that I was even involved in the Great Iceskating Caper at StyleForum, so you can trust that my animosity does not come from that episode. Anyway, I find the boots fugly, but you are too much fun for words. As for an "understanding of fashion", that is not something to which I aspire, especially when it comes to fuzzy button boots.


I though you hated all balmoral boots, not just the button variety. Personally, I think the button variety, including this pair, is beautiful, though not wearable outside musical theatre. But if someone wants to play dress-up and wear some costume items in public, it isn't really my concern.

Ordinary lace-up balmorals are perfectly fine to me and I wear them happily.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

dopey said:


> I though you hated all balmoral boots, not just the button variety. Personally, I think the button variety, including this pair, is beautiful, though not wearable outside musical theatre. But if someone wants to play dress-up and wear some costume items in public, it isn't really my concern.
> 
> Ordinary lace-up balmorals are perfectly fine to me and I wear them happily.


True, I don't really like balmoral boots, but button boots are next level feces. I like blucher boots a lot, even with suits.


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## smlaz (May 13, 2005)

Enjoyment and cheeriness abounds. Only here on Ask Andy. Next on Ask Andy: describe your latest sock garter purchase and get attacked for how ugly, beautiful, historic, dated, exotic, boring, expensive, valuable, tense, intense, relaxed, uptight, and/or buttoned down (or up, depending on your lexicographic leanings) your purchase is, was, or may ever be. Stay tuned...


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## bobbyball (Jul 20, 2005)

Fabulous boots – congratulations!!

I recently saw a similar pair in Cleverley that were being delivered to a customer. The buttons were MOP and the fasteners were small woven loops of elastic (a concession to modern times I suppose.

Wear in good health.

Bobbyball


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

*Was this whole thread a segue into one big sales pitch?*



Mark from Plano said:


> :icon_headagainstwal
> 
> This is like a car wreck. I can't not look at it, but it makes me nauseous.


Queue the jaws of life for this one, dude.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

The predictability of some is almost frightening at times. I wondered how long it would take before this thread was resurrected from the dead and I was only off by about two hours. You guys are like iguanas, crawling all over each other to get to the hot spot on the rock. I would try and explain to you why the boots are listed, but that you needed to write what you already have demonstrates it would be futile. Maybe AHarris could explain it to you since he seems to have a strong grasp on reality and understands sales. That said, I bought the boots and own them so if I ever do decide to sell them it is my exclusive right to do so. Get over yourselves already.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

Wow. What are the eBay fees for listing a $10,000 pair of boots?


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

PedanticTurkey said:


> Wow. What are the eBay fees for listing a $10,000 pair of boots?


330219730002 Insertion Fee *$4.00 *

To the ignorant slinging mud at me elsewhere I would say that I have changed the diapers of five children growing up and intend to change those of my grandchildren, but those whining about things beyond their comprehension are not family so they can find someone else to change their soiled diapers.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

...and the leopard's spots remain unchanged! Whomewhat, you really do make a truely beautiful set of boot/shoe trees, collectable quality, witout a doubt! Based on earlier entries in this thread, it appeared you harbored an acute and genuine love of a classic example of fine footgear. I believe you even stated these present (button) boots were bought strictly for your personal use. I'm not sure why it offends me to realize that you are attempting to sell them, at what I would think to be an exhorbitant profit, and I intend no personal offense by making this point but, it does. To me, you would seem a nicer guy, if you would just stick to posting about crafting your boot trees! You could experience a far greater enjoyment of life, if you could go through it without that chip on your shoulder.


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## yachtie (May 11, 2006)

Pointless: Lobb St James would make you a *NEW PAIR* lasted for *YOUR FEET* for about *HALF THE PRICE*.

One of the Viennese guys for a lot less.

_Caveat Emptor_

ROFLOL


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

You describe a pair of moth eaten shoes as mint!!!!! Hilarious. They remain among the ugliest shoe specimins I have ever seen.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

iammatt said:


> They remain among the ugliest shoe specimins I have ever seen.


Exaggerating for effect?

Come on. Factoring in your dislike for button boots, to say nothing of other considerations, you can't see any merits in these?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

manton said:


> Exaggerating for effect?
> 
> Come on. Factoring in your dislike for button boots, to say nothing of other considerations, you can't see any merits in these?


Not really. I think that of all of the button boots I have seen, these are among the worst. The color combination of brown and cream seems odd to me in a button boot, the boxcloth uppers are a terrible look, and the uppers are badly moth eaten. The shoe part is fine and actually would be kind of nice, were it a shoe.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

iammatt said:


> You describe a pair of moth eaten shoes as mint!!!!!


Now that you mention it, they are kind of moth eaten. And I didn't realize the OP is describing them as mint -- which one glance at the soles would show not to be the case. Not to mention there are what appear to be brownish stains on the uppers.


yachtie said:


> Pointless: Lobb St James would make you a *NEW PAIR* lasted for *YOUR FEET* for about *HALF THE PRICE*.


But could Lobb supply the moths? And hey, shipping is FREE...


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## JD_May (Mar 15, 2008)

Free shipping you say? I'll take 'em!



Whomewhat said:


> From the Jim Carrey movie, "Liar, Liar."
> 
> Greta:
> 
> ...


Your taste in movies is revealing, there's a strange sort of poetry to it...

I'm not sure why I just read that entire thread, maybe it was the result of some morbid fascination with a living specimen of mature immaturity. In any case, It appears that the OP has tired of his purchase and has decided that he needs a new Hyundai, so... I guess if you're going to set an asking price for the "Holy Grail", ten thousand dollars is really quite a bargain. Here's hoping for the OP's sake that a fool and his money are soon parted.


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

whomewhat can choose to link his blog or choose not to.

I don't feel it's my place to provide the link.

But I think he provides a very rational explanation in the blog for the Ebay boot listing.

Anybody ever hear the term "Crazy like a fox"?


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## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

yachtie said:


> Pointless: Lobb St James would make you a *NEW PAIR* lasted for *YOUR FEET* for about *HALF THE PRICE*.


Agreed. If you couldn't buy these anymore, or the company went out of business, or something like that, I could see people lining up to bid on it (for much less than $10K). But anyone who knows enough about JL to spend $10K on a pair of shoes will surely know they're still in business, and can easily produce the exact same thing. Also the fact that its been worn several times is going to hurt the value quite a bit. If it was never worn, or worn by some famous person.... possibly somewhere closer to $10K.

But time will tell how much it really goes for.


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## whomewhat (Nov 11, 2006)

rnoldh said:


> whomewhat can choose to link his blog or choose not to.
> 
> I don't feel it's my place to provide the link.
> 
> ...


I assumed that you would ultimately be the only one of your friends to figure it out. Please do not provide the link since it would be a violation of AAAC rules and they already have the link anyway. They know what is really going on, but they play this ignorance game because it allows them to make the above comments, which they feel somehow elevates them in the eyes of their friends. If I cared I would not have created the auction in the first place.


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

omairp said:


> Agreed. If you couldn't buy these anymore, or the company went out of business, or something like that, I could see people lining up to bid on it (for much less than $10K). But anyone who knows enough about JL to spend $10K on a pair of shoes will surely know they're still in business, and can easily produce the exact same thing. Also the fact that its been worn several times is going to hurt the value quite a bit. If it was never worn, or worn by some famous person.... possibly somewhere closer to $10K.
> 
> But time will tell how much it really goes for.


exactly, you can buy these exact boots right now, and in better condition than that auction. all you have to do is go through the JL paris bespoke operation, and it would cost less than the auction and would have a better fit. Last I heard, it was probably in the neighborhood of $3,000 or $4,000, but it should be a little more with the dollar's fall.


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## NoVaguy (Oct 15, 2004)

as for wearing the boots, i wouldn't wear them with blue trousers from the earlier pictures. i think if you're going to try to make them work in real life, you should wear them with earth tones and with a plain cuff.


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## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

whomewhat said:


> https://www.freeimagehosting.net/


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