# Finally updated blog: Anna Matuozzo shirt!



## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

Well, I finally got to writing up a new post. I hope it's enjoyable and we can all get beyond our pattern-matching differences. Please feel free to comment: www.mfanblog.blogspot.com.


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## Hard2Fit (May 11, 2005)

Beautiful shirt.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Obviously I am a fan, but special attention should be paid to the lovely roll of the collar. You amost never see collars like this as most shirtmakes seem to favor a crisper, flatter look. It is almost a best of both worlds between a spread collar and a buttondown.


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## Mahler (Aug 5, 2005)

The craftsmanship looks fantastic, though I'm not sure I like the shirring and the little nubs of thread on the yoke (they sort of break the clean line).

The question is: why such a high collar? Is that something you specifically requested? To be honest in the first two pictures the collar does not look that proportionate, though that may be be of course very different when you put the shirt on.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

iammatt said:


> Obviously I am a fan, but special attention should be paid to the lovely roll of the collar. You amost never see collars like this as most shirtmakes seem to favor a crisper, flatter look. It is almost a best of both worlds between a spread collar and a buttondown.





Mahler said:


> The craftsmanship looks fantastic, though I'm not sure I like the shirring and the little nubs of thread on the yoke (they sort of break the clean line).
> 
> The question is: why such a high collar? Is that something you specifically requested? To be honest in the first two pictures the collar does not look that proportionate, though that may be be of course very different when you put the shirt on.


Yes, the collar is amazing. It's that high because of my neck, I guess. It looks right when it's on and makes my neck look a little longer.


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## Mahler (Aug 5, 2005)

mafoofan said:


> Yes, the collar is amazing. It's that high because of my neck, I guess. It looks right when it's on and makes my neck look a little longer.


That's probably true, but what about a tie knot? Given the high stance of the collar, do you need to wear a really fat knot? Otherwise one of the two button collars would stand exposed, no? Some pictures of you actually wearing the shirt would help.


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## mipcar (Dec 12, 2007)

Cannot dispute the work that has clearly gone into that shirt. Very nice.

Mychael


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## voxsartoria (Nov 21, 2006)

mafoofan said:


> Well, I finally got to writing up a new post. I hope it's enjoyable and we can all get beyond our pattern-matching differences. Please feel free to comment: www.mfanblog.blogspot.com.


I hope, M., that you will forgive me that I comment here rather than on the blog, but...










...I am going to have to say that this kicks *ss. Sublime. Everyone who owns a Borrelli, Barba, Kiton, etc. should compare their shirts to these two shoulder seams for an instant and useful education.

Did the body end up having darts?

- B


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

A very beautiful shirt.


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## Cornellian (Dec 11, 2006)

Thanks for posting these pictures. I hope the shirt fits as well as the construction looks. I like the color/pattern choice. I'm also a fan of blue... very versatile.

Now all you need to do is post those Rubinacci pictures! :devil:


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## andreyb (Dec 24, 2003)

*Collar*

If you allow me, a bit of criticism: it seems that Neapolitan shirtmakers are all fixated on one type of collar -- irregardless of who the client is.

Such collar looks good with a tie and coat on; less good with coat off; terrible without a tie. This is only IMHO, though.

Andrey


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

It looks lovely. Great pictures!


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## T4phage (Nov 12, 2003)

andreyb said:


> If you allow me, a bit of criticism: it seems that Neapolitan shirtmakers are all fixated on one type of collar -- irregardless of who the client is.
> 
> Such collar looks good with a tie and coat on; less good with coat off; terrible without a tie. This is only IMHO, though.
> 
> Andrey


Nope. They can make any shape collar you want. My collars are quite different to mafoofans, and as it should since we are built differently.


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

A two button collar makes a short neck shorter, but this is not a secret in the world of bespoke


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## T4phage (Nov 12, 2003)

fritzl said:


> A two button collar makes a short neck shorter, but this is not a secret in the world of bespoke


And fish shoes would make you look pimpy, but this is not a secret in the world of bespoke


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

T4phage said:


> And fish shoes would make you look pimpy, but this is not a secret in the world of bespoke


More than crocodile? :icon_smile_wink:


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## NU81 (Jan 29, 2008)

Looks like a beautiful shirt. I really like the colors. Are the nubs of thread along the yoke a signature of Anna's? Not sure I like those. At first glance they reminded of the threads used to sew a tag on the waistband of a pair of OTR pants that need to be removed before wearing.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Wouldn't you rather have that than pattern-matching? :devil:


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

Beautyfull shirt. 
Only irk for me is the back is shirred ('grinze'), not so much with the shoulders.
But just a small detail on an otherwise perfect shirt.











andreyb said:


> Such collar looks good with a tie and coat on;
> less good with coat off; terrible without a tie. This is only IMHO, though.


I really like these collars with or out tie. 
But then again I like a nice Windsor or even a double Windsor ...

Thats the beauty of things, we are not all alike 

Speed


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

RJman said:


> Wouldn't you rather have that than pattern-matching? :devil:


It's not right that we should have to choose.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

fritzl said:


> A two button collar makes a short neck shorter, but this is not a secret in the world of bespoke


I don't know what to tell you; it looks right. It's worth keeping in mind that I have a big head and my neck is relatively wide. I trusted Anna to decide; after the first fitting, she saw that the collar should be higher.



RJman said:


> Wouldn't you rather have that than pattern-matching? :devil:


No! 



Mahler said:


> That's probably true, but what about a tie knot? Given the high stance of the collar, do you need to wear a really fat knot? Otherwise one of the two button collars would stand exposed, no? Some pictures of you actually wearing the shirt would help.


Well, I tie a regular four-in-hand most of the time with no problem. Since the buttons are vertically aligned, how would they get exposed?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

andreyb said:


> If you allow me, a bit of criticism: it seems that Neapolitan shirtmakers are all fixated on one type of collar -- irregardless of who the client is.
> 
> Such collar looks good with a tie and coat on; less good with coat off; terrible without a tie. This is only IMHO, though.
> 
> Andrey


Not true. Mafoofan's are very wide spread, while mine, from teh same maker are relatively closed.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

^^^ True. Anna can do many different collars and has several to show you. I saw widespread collars like mine on some in Naples, most notably the Ambrosis. But even more seem to be wearing unbuttoned button-down collars. Mariano Rubinacci does this very well.


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## andreyb (Dec 24, 2003)

T4phage said:


> Nope. They can make any shape collar you want. My collars are quite different to mafoofans, and as it should since we are built differently.


Of course they can. My point is that I see this type of collar ("spread of big proportions with a bit of roll") all too often.

Andrey


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## T4phage (Nov 12, 2003)

andreyb said:


> Of course they can. My point is that I see this type of collar ("spread of big proportions with a bit of roll") all too often.
> 
> Andrey


All too often from? Neapolitan RTW makers? In which market? Remember, the stores order the style they think will sell best in their region.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

andreyb said:


> Of course they can. My point is that I see this type of collar ("spread of big proportions with a bit of roll") all too often.
> 
> Andrey


My guess is that you see that in Moscow from a lot of the Borrellis, Kitons etc because store buyers think that is the Italian way to do things. It is the same here, much less so in Italy.


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## fritzl (Jun 5, 2006)

mafoofan said:


> I don't know what to tell you; it looks right. It's worth keeping in mind that I have a big head and my neck is relatively wide. I trusted Anna to decide; after the first fitting, she saw that the collar should be higher.


Can you beat 20 inch?

In German they call me "Stiernacken", would be like bull's neck :icon_smile:

I agree with you, that one rule can/should be. Trust the expert. That's what I always did and it went fine. The rest is personal preference etc.

Btw, no "high" collar in my closet  Though, I think that also depends on the position of the Adam's apple, right?


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## Cornellian (Dec 11, 2006)

fritzl said:


> Btw, no "high" collar in my closet  Though, I think that also depends on the position of the Adam's apple, right?


Yes, I have my shirt collars done a little lower in the front so they don't choke me.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Great shirt. I love light-blue on white stripes, and that one is a beauty.


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

How does Anna Mattuozzo compare with Leonardo Bugelli?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Bishop of Briggs said:


> How does Anna Mattuozzo compare with Leonardo Bugelli?


They, and I believe Mimmo Siviglia, are all in the pantheon of Italian shirtmakers. There are perhaps others. Personally, I have had several artisans (shoemakers, pantmakers) immediately name Anna as the best, but I wouldn't take that to mean much other than that she is very good. One thing to note is that nobody outside of Rome is going to name a Roman as best, and the same goes for Milan. They are competitive with the big cities in that way.

Edit: Perhaps to clarify my jumbled post, everybody in Naples thinks she is the best. Several people in Florence have told me she is the best in Italy, and others have said Bugelli. Everybody I have spoken with in Rome thinks Siviglia is the best, although there is another woman whose name comes up a lot. You could go to any of them and be extremely satisfied, as, in the real world, there is no best.


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

You can find more pictures of the lady's fine shirts here - https://www.shibui.eu/gallery/matuozzo/index.html.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

is it silly to ask what is the price range for AM shirts in general?


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

iammatt said:


> . . . everybody in Naples thinks she is the best. Several people in Florence have told me she is the best in Italy, and others have said Bugelli. Everybody I have spoken with in Rome thinks Siviglia is the best, although there is another woman whose name comes up a lot. You could go to any of them and be extremely satisfied, as, in the real world, there is no best.


Interestingly, the people at Battistoni seemed to have no idea who Anna was. The sales associate asked me about her shirts, to which I replied that they were largely handsewn. I pointed at the placed on a shirt in front of me where Anna hand-stitches. In disbelief, he asked: "Where is this shirtmaker? In Rome?" When I told him her location, he exclaimed, "Always _Naples!_"



Rossini said:


> is it silly to ask what is the price range for AM shirts in general?


I _think_ I paid 380 euros each. But prices may have gone up since.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

last time I asked a client I was told 350 euros. Better than it sounds, because that includes any cloth, and some of them are very good.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

manton said:


> last time I asked a client I was told 350 euros. Better than it sounds, because that includes any cloth, and some of them are very good.


Yes, you can pick _anything_. All my shirts from Anna are Riva cotton. And they don't cheap out on suggestions. When I asked for swatches of blue fabric to be sent to me in Chicago, they sent me a couple dozen Riva swatches to pick from.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

manton said:


> last time I asked a client I was told 350 euros. Better than it sounds, because that includes any cloth, and some of them are very good.


In my experience this is right. The only thing that costs extra is monogramming as they pay somebody to do it. That is likely the differential between what I have paid and what mafoofan paid. Mine have no monograms.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

Piccolo of Naples is in town (NYC) this week, and I'm seeing him tomorrow.

I have to have him do that collar on some new selections.

Beautiful shirt.

SC


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Strange, when I was last in Rome, nobody mentioned Sviglia, they all said Battistoni. In Milan, it's Siniscalchi.

A lot of people also mentioned that crazy firm in Genoa that charges almost as much as Kabbaz. Finnamore? I can't seem to remember.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

manton said:


> Strange, when I was last in Rome, nobody mentioned Sviglia, they all said Battistoni. In Milan, it's Siniscalchi.
> 
> A lot of people also mentioned that crazy firm in Genoa that charges almost as much as Kabbaz. Finnamore? I can't seem to remember.


Finollo, Mike.

I have some stuff from them and they make Kabbaz's tariff
seem like the Gap in comparison.

Ouch!!!


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

manton said:


> Finnamore? I can't seem to remember.


Nah, Finnamore is a Borrelli-like maker in Naples.


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

Finnolo, that's it.

Such a grimy town, I wonder how Italy's highest priced shirtmaker ended up there.


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

*swatches ...*



mafoofan said:


> Yes, you can pick _anything_. All my shirts from Anna are Riva cotton. And they don't cheap out on suggestions. When I asked for swatches of blue fabric to be sent to me in Chicago, they sent me a couple dozen Riva swatches to pick from.


Do you think you could post those, either @blog, here or SF ?

I would really appreciate that!

Thanks

Speed


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

SilkCity said:


> Finollo, Mike.
> 
> I have some stuff from them and they make Kabbaz's tariff
> seem like the Gap in comparison.
> ...


Can some one get me an address for the madman in Genova.
Oh And the town is actually QUITE spectacular IMHO.

Thanks

Speed


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

I suppose I haven't seen it at its best.

Finollo
Via Roma 38 
Genova


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

mafoofan said:


> Yes, you can pick _anything_. All my shirts from Anna are Riva cotton. And they don't cheap out on suggestions. When I asked for swatches of blue fabric to be sent to me in Chicago, they sent me a couple dozen Riva swatches to pick from.


Mafoofan, thank you. Is the 380 euro based on made to measure from your visit or is it a remotely-commissioned stock shirt? Would there be a difference in the stock prices?


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

speedster said:


> Can some one get me an address for the madman in Genova.
> Oh And the town is actually QUITE spectacular IMHO.
> 
> Thanks
> ...


Via Roma, 38R
Ask for Luca.

A wonderful, old world store, directly across from a Milan-style galleria,
and down the street from Teatro Carlo Felice--the opera house which
mounts some excellent productions.
I stay at the Best Western City Hotel which is literally in Finollo's backyard.

More a gritty, than "grimy" town and one of my favorites in Italy--sort of a mini-Napoli,
what with the waterfront and all.

You are, however, forewarned about the stratospheric price of the shirts,
so exercise appropriate prudence.

SC


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

Rossini said:


> Mafoofan, thank you. Is the 380 euro based on made to measure from your visit or is it a remotely-commissioned stock shirt? Would there be a difference in the stock prices?


380 euros is for bespoke. Anna does have a RTW line I'm not familiar with that sells for much less, but it doesn't have the same amount of handwork.


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

Beautiful shirt, mafoofan. Love the look of all that handstitching, which is beautifully done. 

Does the handstitching contribute to the fit or feel of the shirt? Does it allow the shirtmaker to mold the collar in ways they could not with a machine?


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

A branch of my family came from Genoa, so I feel entitled to criticize.


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## EL72 (May 25, 2005)

manton said:


> A branch of my family came from Genoa, so I feel entitled to criticize.


The Giavannis from Genoa? :icon_smile:


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## manton (Jul 26, 2003)

EL72 said:


> The Giavannis from Genoa? :icon_smile:


No, different branch. Those are from Tuscany. They ended up in the Valley. The Genovesans ended up in SF and Santa Cruz, with the fish.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

manton said:


> A branch of my family came from Genoa, so I feel entitled to criticize.


Didn't note any criticism, just a subjective description of the place!!!


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

manton said:


> A branch of my family came from Genoa, so I feel entitled to criticize.


No sweat, I'm just visiting from time to time.
Day trips from the south of France ....

Oh, and I'm good with restraint. 
Just curious about various levels of finish vs price.
Having made an appointment in April with Giancarlo Bonfanti of Tessuti Bonfanti. These are basicly my first real "strays into bespoke".
My shirts so far are from: Baldesarini, ListeRouge, Lorenzini, Zegna, Canali, Corneliani and Kenzo. An one or other od Italian ...

Thanks

Speed


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

speedster said:


> No sweat, I'm just visiting from time to time.
> Day trips from the south of France ....
> 
> Oh, and I'm good with restraint.
> ...


You know that Bonfanti is just a fabric maker, right? Do you have a shirt maker picked out?

Anyway, you might want to check the relative cost of simply going to a good Italian shirtmaker and selecting a fabric from Riva. They are similar to Bonfanti, but from what I have heard, there are more weak spots in the Bonfanti line than in Riva's. Most of the Italian shirtmakers seem to prefer Riva. On the other hand, if you get Bonfanti + shirt cheaper, and your shirtmaker doesn't mind, it is a good path.


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## Artisan Fan (Jul 21, 2006)

Gorgeous shirt. I look forward to visiting Anna soon.



> Everyone who owns a Borrelli, Barba, Kiton, etc. should compare their shirts to these two shoulder seams for an instant and useful education.


No question Anna wins here although some of my Kitons come close.


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

iammatt said:


> You know that Bonfanti is just a fabric maker, right? Do you have a shirt maker picked out?
> Anyway, you might want to check the relative cost of simply going to a good Italian shirtmaker and selecting a fabric from Riva. They are similar to Bonfanti, but from what I have heard, there are more weak spots in the Bonfanti line than in Riva's. Most of the Italian shirtmakers seem to prefer Riva. On the other hand, if you get Bonfanti + shirt cheaper, and your shirtmaker doesn't mind, it is a good path.


Apparently he has ventured into RTW, Is putting together a collection as we speak. Has been busy the last year with factory and staffing AFIK ...
And since It wont be out of my way to stop by his factory in april, I thougt id give it a chance. But If anyone has pointers for good tailors, anywhere from Venice, Como / Chiasso, Milan, Genoa, San Remo or smaller places in between I ALL EARS 

Oh, and Matt thanks for the input on fabric earlier ...
I'm not trying to do a thread jack here ... 
LOVE the AM shirt, but dont foresee me going to Naples in the nearest future 

Thanks

Speed


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

Does Anna Matuozzo offer RTW as well as bespoke? The Shibui, a Dutch firm, website suggests that she may. If so, how much would they cost?


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Bishop, Mafoofan was saying that there was but he hadn't seen it and didn't know the cost. I contacted the company last year and they seemed to offer such a thing but I didn't go further than the initial enquiry. You wouldn't imagine that there'd be much change out of 200 euro if any. Though I could be wrong, of course.


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

Rossini said:


> Bishop, Mafoofan was saying that there was but he hadn't seen it and didn't know the cost. I contacted the company last year and they seemed to offer such a thing but I didn't go further than the initial enquiry. You wouldn't imagine that there'd be much change out of 200 euro if any. Though I could be wrong, of course.


Many thanks. The AM website does not seem to be working properly so I will email the retail firm in Amsterdam in the morning. 200 Euros would be reasonable for a RTW shirt with lots of handwork and thick MOP buttons. For the first time, I am losing faith in Jermyn Street. This site has opened my eyes to certain sharp practices!


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

No worries - I'll do the same by reply to the mail I got from AM a few months ago, and I'll post when I get a response.


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

mafoofan- Nice shirt. Nice hand sewing. Can see why you like them.

Nice update to your website.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

On re-viewing noted:

1. No front placket--is that a house imperative or personal?

2. AM it seems does not do the "crows-foot" button stitching 
common to the Neapolitans.

Nothing of the foregoing in any way modifies my prior expressed admiration
of such a beauty of a shirt.

SC


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

SilkCity said:


> On re-viewing noted:
> 
> 1. No front placket--is that a house imperative or personal?
> 
> ...


1. She makes them, but I think it is fair to say that she does not prefer them. I can only think of one maker in Nalples who makes them as a rule.
2. I've never asked, but my guess is that she has been making shirts longer than companies have been writing about the "crows-foot" in their little booklets, and she has never changed. I am sure she would do it on request, but her buttons come undone less than crows-foot ones.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

iammatt said:


> 1. She makes them, but I think it is fair to say that she does not prefer them. I can only think of one maker in Nalples who makes them as a rule.
> 2. I've never asked, but my guess is that she has been making shirts longer than companies have been writing about the "crows-foot" in their little booklets, and she has never changed. I am sure she would do it on request, but her buttons come undone less than crows-foot ones.


Got it--esp re the buttons.

Thanks for the reply, and do wear it in the best of health!


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

iammatt said:


> 1. She makes them, but I think it is fair to say that she does not prefer them. I can only think of one maker in Nalples who makes them as a rule.


When I asked about placket choices, Anna and her daughter very strongly preferred not to do one, repeating that no placket would be more "classic." Frankly, I never thought to ask about the button stitching; but I haven't had a loose button yet on any of Anna's shirts. My Borrelli shirts, even the ones that were generally better made, all had button problems from the outset.


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## manicturncoat (Oct 4, 2004)

SilkCity said:


> Finollo, Mike.
> 
> I have some stuff from them and they make Kabbaz's tariff
> seem like the Gap in comparison.
> ...


Wherever Gianni Agnelli purchased something in Italy, it instantly became overpriced.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

mafoofan said:


> When I asked about placket choices, Anna and her daughter very strongly preferred not to do one, repeating that no placket would be more "classic."


True. When I asked they made a face that looked like I had put poop under their noses.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

iammatt said:


> True. When I asked they made a face that looked like I had put poop under their noses.


It's amazing how many details take care of themselves when working with someone like Anna. I used to fuss over things like plackets when, frankly, I had no real strong preference one way or another. Makes life and dressing well much easier.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

iammatt said:


> True. When I asked they made a face that looked like I had put poop under their noses.


I _told_ you not to take etiquette lessons from Borat!!!!


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## greekonomist (Apr 26, 2007)

SilkCity said:


> On re-viewing noted:
> 
> 1. No front placket--is that a house imperative or personal?
> 
> ...


Forgive my ignorance, but what is "crow's foot" button stitching?


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## satorstyle (Jan 2, 2007)

satorstyle said:


>


I borrowed this from Mafoofan's blog, I hope you don't mind. This is from a poorly crafted Borrelli he purchased. This is how a "crow's foot" button is sewn.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

Nah, I don't mind at all. I don't understand the benefit of sewing the button that way.


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## greekonomist (Apr 26, 2007)

mafoofan said:


> Nah, I don't mind at all. I don't understand the benefit of sewing the button that way.


Thanks, satorstyle. What is the benefit of this style of sewing? Could you please elaborate on the trade-offs between the two ways of sewing a button?


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## voxsartoria (Nov 21, 2006)

mafoofan said:


> Nah, I don't mind at all. I don't understand the benefit of sewing the button that way.


When done correctly and well, it places the shank off center, giving the wearer's fingers more purchase in handling the button.

For this concept to work, however, the orientation of the shank has to be consistent. In Borrellis, for comparison, the wide variability in how different seamstresses sew the buttonholes (some Borrelli holes, as many observe, are ridiculously tight, defeating the whole point of a handsewn hole) and at least in my samples, the inconsistent orientation of the off-center shank on the hen's foot stick often defeat the purpose.

I am trying to remember...who does a three hole button? Budd?

- B


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Mafoofan, slightly off-topic, what do you use to take your excellent photographs?


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

Rossini said:


> Mafoofan, slightly off-topic, what do you use to take your excellent photographs?


Nothing special, just a Canon Powershot S80. Essentially, I have to wait until 2 in the afternoon to take pictures to get the right lighting. After 3, game's over.


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

voxsartoria said:


> I am trying to remember...who does a three hole button? Budd?
> - B


My vanLaack Royal's have three hole buttons ... FWIW

Speed


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

iammatt said:


> True. When I asked they made a face that looked like I had put poop under their noses.


Similar reaction from my Neapolitan maker; though he
refrained from the theatrics.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

manicturncoat said:


> Wherever Gianni Agnelli purchased something in Italy, it instantly became overpriced.


Indeed!

Curiously, they had a pretty substantial supply of very aged boxes of
detachable/stiff collars on the shelves; and a framed collar purporting to
be the DOW's!!!


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

mafoofan said:


> It's amazing how many details take care of themselves when working with someone like Anna. I used to fuss over things like plackets when, frankly, I had no real strong preference one way or another. Makes life and dressing well much easier.


I agree, though I am older than you so have had the time to become accustomed to certain things that I think are preferences but might really be fixed habits. Plackets are not one of them. Some of my shirts have them and some don't, though I cannot really discern how the choice is made. I don't see how without is more "classic" though.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

dopey said:


> I agree, though I am older than you so have had the time to become accustomed to certain things that I think are preferences but might really be fixed habits. Plackets are not one of them. Some of my shirts have them and some don't, though I cannot really discern how the choice is made. I don't see how without is more "classic" though.


Well, I don't really understand what they mean by 'classic' either. Nonetheless, they clearly think no placket is better for some reason. Keep in mind that neither Anna nor her daughter speak much English, so they may not be saying _exactly_ what it sounds like.


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## encyclopedia (Jan 3, 2008)

mafoofan said:


> Yes, you can pick _anything_. All my shirts from Anna are Riva cotton. And they don't cheap out on suggestions. When I asked for swatches of blue fabric to be sent to me in Chicago, they sent me a couple dozen Riva swatches to pick from.


I am not trying to stir up trouble.

Ok, I've had the following rough conversations in several italian shops (clothes and otherwise). Yes the same shop.

#1
"How did u find us?"
(In english) walking by / saw window / read article / barneys / etc
"Everything costs x"

#2
"How ..."
(In italian) "some guy my father sits next to at the football stadium came over for dinner last night and he was wearing this beautiful shirt..."
"What team do they support?"
Be honest, and then hope u r not called a facist/communist/whatever. Then u r not getting any shirts!
(Some old guy in the back) "where r their seats?"
"Ok here's the system: this shelf costs..."

Seriously. I'm not trying to judge. partially I'm sure its just language familiarity. "Tre cento cinquante euro" translates easier than a long lecutre. And willingness to piss off someone that lives far away is a lot higher than someone that got recommended by a local family member. Plus, take a shot - these americans/british/germans/japanese/whatever don't know what its supposed to cost. and what they're going to do, go home empty handed?

This does not bother me. And I'm not complaining. I'm just stunned with so many italian clothing lovers on this forum nobody ever talks about the issue.


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## mafoofan (May 16, 2005)

encyclopedia said:


> Seriously. I'm not trying to judge. partially I'm sure its just language familiarity. "Tre cento cinquante euro" translates easier than a long lecutre. And willingness to piss off someone that lives far away is a lot higher than someone that got recommended by a local family member. Plus, take a shot - these americans/british/germans/japanese/whatever don't know what its supposed to cost. and what they're going to do, go home empty handed?
> 
> This does not bother me. And I'm not complaining. I'm just stunned with so many italian clothing lovers on this forum nobody ever talks about the issue.


Well, I admit I'm not _entirely_ sure what you're getting at. If I understand correctly, you're saying it can be difficult to deal with Italian tailors as a foreigner, partially because you can't know if you're being overcharged.

All I can say is that the tailors I use in Naples have never made issue of my origin or how I found them. They are all used to dealing with international customers, and prices are more or less transparent. With regard to Anna in particular, you _really_ have nothing to worry about. She has gained a good deal of fame abroad as one of Italy's best shirtmakers; it's not like she's about to mess up her reputation by cheating foreign customers.

Anyway, the products speak for themselves. I feel like I've gotten nothing but top-shelf quality in my jackets, shirts, and pants. I hope that the pictures on my blog help show this. Top-shelf prices are only to be expected.

My guess is that you're more likely to have problems dealing with local, no-name tailors regardless of the country you're in. I chose Ambrosi, Anna, and Rubinacci in large part because they seemed like safe bets--if I wandered deep into the Spanish Quarter and stumbled upon some guy who wants to make me a shirt for 50 euros, I'd be a lot more skeptical.

In the U.S., there are plenty of alterations tailors more than happy make you a subpar suit for $1500, figuring that you likely won't be able to tell the difference. Remember, it was an _English_ tailor that most infamously cheated forum members. You should be careful anywhere, and reputation is worth _a lot_.


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## encyclopedia (Jan 3, 2008)

mafoofan said:


> Well, I admit I'm not _entirely_ sure what you're getting at. If I understand correctly, you're saying it can be difficult to deal with Italian tailors as a foreigner, partially because you can't know if you're being overcharged.
> 
> All I can say is that the tailors I use in Naples have never made issue of my origin or how I found them. They are all used to dealing with international customers, and prices are more or less transparent. With regard to Anna in particular, you _really_ have nothing to worry about. She has gained a good deal of fame abroad as one of Italy's best shirtmakers; it's not like she's about to mess up her reputation by cheating foreign customers.
> 
> ...


I agree with most everything uve said. I've not used those three shops - I was simply relating experiences in other similar (I.e. some with international repitations, but naples is not my thing) places in italy. If I was to try to distill a message for u from my previous post itd be: if u want anna to make u an oxford cloth shirt for winter weekend wear or whatever, u shouldn't be paying the same price. No matter what u were told in the beginning. At least ask, there is basically no chance of offending an italian shopkeeper by asking for a discount with a smile.

Also I do recall reading some posts here a while ago along the lines of "X shoemaker is very expensive, but after u order a lot of shoes the prices do get a bit better.". I'd forgotten about those when I wrote the earlier post - there's a simioar subtext I think.

And you'll never find me defending english business, business practices, etc. If I elaborate surely ill be banned forever.


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## SilkCity (Apr 3, 2004)

encyclopedia said:


> I agree with most everything uve said. I've not used those three shops - I was simply relating experiences in other similar (I.e. some with international repitations, but naples is not my thing) places in italy. If I was to try to distill a message for u from my previous post itd be: if u want anna to make u an oxford cloth shirt for winter weekend wear or whatever, u shouldn't be paying the same price. No matter what u were told in the beginning. At least ask, there is basically no chance of offending an italian shopkeeper by asking for a discount with a smile.
> 
> Also I do recall reading some posts here a while ago along the lines of "X shoemaker is very expensive, but after u order a lot of shoes the prices do get a bit better.". I'd forgotten about those when I wrote the earlier post - there's a simioar subtext I think.
> 
> And you'll never find me defending english business, business practices, etc. If I elaborate surely ill be banned forever.


Huh???


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## Roger (Feb 18, 2005)

Bishop of Briggs said:


> Does Anna Matuozzo offer RTW as well as bespoke? The Shibui, a Dutch firm, website suggests that she may. If so, how much would they cost?


Anna Matuozzo RTW are available. Ian Daniels at Shop the Finest (or World's Finest) has them at terrific prices (like $139):

Here's a full description of one in 15.5:


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Roger said:


> Anna Matuozzo RTW are available. Ian Daniels at Shop the Finest (or World's Finest) has them at terrific prices (like $139):
> 
> Here's a full description of one in 15.5:


Beware that they are the AM line. Nice stuff, but not the upper end RTW that she does. These are, I believe, a shirt that is factory made and they asked her to design the models.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

How much is her upper-end RTW? The PM line?


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## T4phage (Nov 12, 2003)

iammatt said:


> Beware that they are the AM line. Nice stuff, but not the upper end RTW that she does. These are, I believe, a shirt that is factory made and they asked her to design the models.


Agreed. She has phased this production out if I recall. The last RTW (which I think she no longer offers either) which were made in-house were the semi-handfinished, and the fully-handfinished.


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

iammatt said:


> Beware that they are the AM line. Nice stuff, but not the upper end RTW that she does. These are, I believe, a shirt that is factory made and they asked her to design the models.


The normal price was quoted at $400. Are you suggesting that the upper end RTW is more than $400? That's more than bespoke by Sean O'Flynn or Robert Whittaker.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Bishop of Briggs said:


> The normal price was quoted at $400. Are you suggesting that the upper end RTW is more than $400? That's more than bespoke by Sean O'Flynn or Robert Whittaker.


I do not know that his claimed retail price is representative of the actual retail price.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

It's an interesting point though I doubt Ian would claim something that is not the case. Maybe they were overpriced to begin with.

The shirts look interesting and worth the money in any case.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Rossini said:


> It's an interesting point though I doubt Ian would claim something that is not the case. Maybe they were overpriced to begin with.
> 
> The shirts look interesting and worth the money in any case.


It was never sold in the US, so he can claim whatever he likes. I am not accusing him of lying, just stating that those shirts, in their markets, never sold for $400.


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## Rossini (Oct 7, 2007)

Interesting - What did they sell for?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Rossini said:


> Interesting - What did they sell for?


Not sure, but given the prices of the other shirts she makes, and the relative quality, $400 is not what one would assume. Perhaps T4phage would know. He has known her longer than I have.


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## T4phage (Nov 12, 2003)

Well I don't recall ever seeing those machine made shirts in her shop. And personally would strongly doubt that the price of $400 is what she would have sold it, given that her now phased out semi-handfinished shirt made inhouse was cheaper (a few years ago).


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## idleking178 (Sep 2, 2007)

Does Anna travel to Toronto or New York to make shirts? Unlikely, I guess, but can't hurt to ask.


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## Benjamin E. (Mar 2, 2007)

I seem to remember the back of Cary Grant's shirt in _North By Northwest_ was shirred across the back. You see the shot when he's shaving with the tiny razor.


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