# martin greenfield



## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

i was wondering does martin do custom or just mtm? and how is the quality of his work?


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

It's MTM. The quality available is excellent, a bit below Oxford. They also make machine-made clothing for brand-names that want to offer a lower price point.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

he wont do custom?


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

He used to do custom work, but I don't know if he does it through Brooks Brothers. It's been publicized that he's done custom for US Presidents, such as Presidents Eisenhower and Clinton, and for the likes of Colin Powell and Mayor Bloomberg, and for celebrities such as now Gov. Schwarteneger, Conan O'Brien, and David Letterman, the last two apparently having moved on to different tailors. Here's a phone number:


Martin Greenfield Clothiers
239 Varet St
Brooklyn, NY 
(718) 497-5480


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

does martin do every fitting?


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

I don't know if Martin is actually a tailor though I suspect that if ever he were it is not something that he does now. I believe that the stories about his making suits for the likes of Colin Powell refer to his measuring the powerful and famous for a factory-made suit. I reckon that the MTM they get is quite a bit more flexible than what you or I are offered at Brooks but it would be MTM all the same. 

His factory - I am told - produces two levels of MTM with differing amounts of hand sewing. The Alan Flusser Custom (don't know if he still makes for them) version would have a hand-stitched lapel and finer finishing while the Brooks custom version would have a machine-done lapel, etc. 

But even the lower level still has a considerable amount of handwork. As Will mentioned, nothing compared to Oxxford but also a little less money than Oxxford.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

i heard that he charges extra for hand stiching on the lapels is that the higher quality or does he do that for brooks as well


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

The MG jackets at Brooks (as you can see from the half completed suit they have on a stand somewhere) have lapels that are machine-stitched to the underlying canvas.

I am told by a former Alan Flusser client that this was not the case with the suits that Greenfield made (and for all I know still makes) for Flusser's shop. 

I believe that MG offers pick stitching - usually for a surcharge - on any suit he makes.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

so as a whole the product that he makes for brooks on a scale of 1-10 how would it be rated and why?
and who would u rate better ?


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

Will said:


> It's MTM. The quality available is excellent, a bit below Oxford. They also make machine-made clothing for brand-names that want to offer a lower price point.


Can you specify which brand name MG makes machine made clothing for. Thanks


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Martin Greenfield Clothiers makes RTW and MTM clothes for various retailers and tailors. It is a factory of almost 200 employees and is the last major mens clothing factory in NYC.

The retailers and tailors place their own labels in the clothes although among some vendors it is well known that Greenfield makes the clothes. E.g., he makes Brooks MTM and Golden Fleece RTW, and he does trunk shows for Brooks which openly advertises that Greenfield, "suitmaker to Presidents," makes its suits. However, other tailors would rather be burnt at the stake than divulge that Greenfield makes their suits. I do not know of any retailer who carries Greenfield's name on its label (e.g., "Martin Greenfield Clothiers for . . .").

The Greenfield factory is capable of either making machine sewn suits or handmade suits. Some custom tailors make their own patterns and send them to Greenfield for cutting and sewing. Other tailors do the cutting and send the pieces to Greenfield to construct the coat which is returned to the tailor for a basted try-on. And other tailors have Greenfield do all of the work except the finishing (e.g., buttonholes, cuffs, alterations). Some places have Greenfield do everything including the buttonholes. Most tailors have Greenfield cut from Greenfield's patterns. Generally, the majority of Greenfield's work is from his own patterns.

The level of Greenfield's suit differs from retailer to retailer and tailor to tailor. E.g., the Brooks suit has a machine sewn canvas at the collar and lapels. Other stores order a more expensive make which has hand sewn lapels and collar. Some stores might elect for hand picking while others have machine stitching. It's all a matter of what the retailer wants, and it's all a matter of what the retailer is willing to spend.

The level of craft depends upon the store. At Brooks a finished coat sans buttonsholes is delivered from the factory. There is no basted try-on. At a celebrated tailor/stylist the coat is delivered in basted form for a try-on. It is then marked-up by the tailor and returned to Greenfield for finishing. Incidentally, the latter procedure lengthens the manufacturing process.

As far as I know Greenfield doesn't do bespoke in the Savile Row manner. He may do it in-house for some customers.

Martin or one of his sons do fittings at either trunk shows or at the factory. E.g., one retailer offered to take me to the factory for a fitting, but we decided that it was unnecessary since I fitted the store's RTW model. A fitting by Martin is an event because Martin is one of the nicest people in the business and is an unforgettable character. However, such is unnecessary in that most retailers/tailors have the capablity to do their own fittings.

Some retailers/tailors do not want it known that Greenfield makes the suits. They feel that their clothes are "their own" and are not generic in the market. In some instances there is a justification for this. Each retailer/tailor has his own style, choice of cloths and detailing, and patterns. You can place a Greenfield/Brooks suit next to one made for a celebrated tailor/stylist, and you will have two different animals in make, detailing, and fit.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

are his jackets fully canvased or just collar and lapels


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Full canvas.


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

brioni1 said:


> so as a whole the product that he makes for brooks on a scale of 1-10 how would it be rated and why?
> and who would u rate better ?


It's always somewhat difficult to place something on an uncalibrated scale&#8230; so I'd say between 4 and 7 - depending on what represents a 1 and what represents a 10.

A couple of comments though-
*Fit*: this is definitely MTM even when you are measured by Martin himself. If you are considering this option and can wait until the Brooks autumn trunk show, I would recommend being measured by Marin if for no other reason than, as Mark mentioned, that he is a great guy.

There are definite limits as to what can or will be done to adjust the fit/style. The waist will not be too tapered and the shoulder, while it can be softened a bit, will not be particularly soft. The suits are very much American in that respect though ticket and hacking pockets can be added to your heart's content.

*Craftmanship*: Appears to be rather high but given my lack of sophistication in this regard, that judgment doesn't count for much. One exception to that is the lapels. I'm not a huge fan of machine-padded lapels since they never seem to produce that sort of ostentatious, dramatic roll that I am so enamored with.

*Value*: The price you pay is not bad for what you get. You get a high quality garment that is to an extent customized for you for about the cost of a Oxxford off the peg. But the last suit I ordered through MG/Brooks was around 2600 (it was unbranded cloth that I believe to be H Lesser with some small cashmere content). I don't think that price is unfair by any means, but at that price you are in the Oxxford neighborhood and I don't think there is a comparison to be made between the quality of the two (Oxxford being the clear winner).

For my money, I don't think I'll go the Brooks MTM route any more - the exception being odd trousers which are essentially free since I have the BB mastercard. In that price range, I would want a suit that can account for my rather severely pitched forward shoulders and would like the coat to have more shape.

As an alternative, I am torn between using Oxxford and searching out a mid-tier tailor (e.g. Traguardo, Ercole, etc.) or being patient enough to go to a Dege or a Raphael.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

only 4-7 that doesn't sound to good at all sounds more like a mohan tailor not somebody who this forum usuall rates high


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

Like I said, it's all in how you calibrate the scale. 

I threw that in there mostly as a joke considering that the implied margin of error is nearly as great as the first value. 

I'd look more at the comments than the number - Greendfield makes a good product. Not the best but good. 

I don't know if Mohan is MTM or bespoke but I imagine that Greenfield would have at least a slight edge in quality of construction judging from the reviews that I've read.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

what should you avoid when ur getting a greenfield?


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

brioni1 said:


> what should you avoid when ur getting a greenfield?


I'm not sure I understand your post but if you're near a good Brooks Brothers that carries Golden Fleece, OTR, take a look and try it on as these are made in MG's Brooklyn factory. If the GF works well for you, as they thankfully do for me, then you can avoid the MTM route altogether. Brooks will accomodate your tweaking of the GF, for example they removed the pleats and made them flat front for a reasonable small fee.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

I have also heard (but not seen or had confirmed) that Greenfield will, on his Brooks tours, do a modified drape-style suit-- perhaps more Flusser than A&S. If so, that could be a good source for DB.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

when mtm by martin do u listen to all his suggestions and let him work his magic or there are some things u should avoid and speak up


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

In Martin's words: 

"When you go to a doctor, lawyer, or accountant, you listen to the professional. When you visit me listen to me, the clothing professional."

I would defer to his judgment.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

son of brummel u sound like u know martin well, have u used him and do u still use him and if not why?


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

_y-o-u_


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

MGC is not a bespoke tailor but if you want MTM, a Greenfield suit is a fine choice. If you're looking for RTW, whether Greenfield made the suit is incidental because the retailer specifies the construction it wants. 

He's made many suits, jackets and coats for me over the years. I don't find a significant difference between Greenfield quality and Oxxford because I have always specified hand stitched lapels, a soft front, etc. 

Greenfield offers a couple different silhouettes, including Flusser's version of the London drape. For some decades after BBC went out of the custom business they made for me using my custom pattern but eventually I outgrew it and now the process is true MTM.


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

will are you saying that even upon request he won't do custom?
why not?


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

dopey said:


> ?????? What does that mean?


With the BB mastercard, yet get 1 cent for every dollar you charge on it anywhere and 4 cents for every dollar you charge at Brooks.

When you've earned $20 (or some multiple thereof), you get a rewards certificate for the relevant amount. They cannot be used online but can be used applied to a MTM order or shell cordovan shoes.

I've never had the patience to wait until my accumuated rewards would amount to a decent discount on a suit and for as much as I love working with Tom Davis I probably won't be ordering any more non-OCBD MTM shirts from Brooks (poor fit and cheap plastic buttons) so that leaves MTM pants as what I see as the most efficient use of rewards points.

It certainly makes paying what we do for 800 sq ft a little less painful but the customer service for the credit card is genuinely awful, though showing some signs of improvement.


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

brioni1 said:


> will are you saying that even upon request he won't do custom?
> why not?


I don't think it's so much a question of won't as can't.

He runs a MTM/RTW factory, I don't believe they're even equipped to do full custom.

And even if he did, for what I imagine it would cost, there are probably better alternatives.

Are you looking for a MTM suit or a full custom / besoke one?


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

just a suit that will fit me perfect


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

brioni1 said:


> just a suit that will fit me perfect


On a scale from 1 to 10, how perfect? :icon_smile_big:


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## brioni1 (Jul 18, 2006)

8+
what makes martin mtm so good?


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## nonnon (Dec 6, 2004)

What price point are you looking at? If you want a suit that ranks that highly and is of beautiful fabric have you considered bespoke options? Tailors such as Huntsman, Kilgour, Dege, Anderson? Or even the Italians? I believe that a few beautiful suits are better than a closet full of low quality suits.


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## medhat (Jan 15, 2006)

I'm patiently awaiting my 2nd MG MTM suit (in progress). I was measured by Martin for my first suit last year, and can second the comments already made, that apart from generalizations you specify (2 or 3 button, hi/lo gorge, etc...) he supplies a lot of opinions regarding what he thinks suits (no pun intended) you. Apart from the overall experience (which was great), he (MG) really handled the specifics of the measurments better than I had ever seen. This included (remember, this is MTM, not bespoke) making the small adjustments for sleeve pitch (perfect call) and the significant transition from a 43-sized shoulder to a 40-sized body. The LaSalle BB tailors (Mario in particular) did a great job with the final adjustments (buttonholes, etc...) and I was pleased enough to pay for the experience (with the "stock" measurements) again. He does ask about your preferences for details (ticket pocket, pick stitching, etc...) although I don't remember paying more for those options. It's really a great experience if you're putting out the dough.


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## A Purist (Dec 30, 2003)

I've used the Brooks MTM program for several suits (both at 346 and in Newport Beach, California [now closed]), but then I stopped because I could not get the fit I wanted. After that, I was using them for odd trousers, but again, I was having issues with the fit. For the price that Brooks charges, the clothes really could have a lot more hand work. One annoying thing about the trousers from Brooks/Greenfield is that the buttons on the fly always come loose quickly.

Since Jay Walter decamped, I've not been in the MTM department at 346.

Martin is worth meeting. He is unique.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

"One annoying thing about the trousers from Brooks/Greenfield is that the buttons on the fly always come loose quickly."

As do the braces buttons. Easy to have fixed but one reason they don't quite rank with Oxxford.


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Greenfield makes different suits for different retailers and tailors. Therefore, it is a bit difficult to characterize the "Greenfield suit" except that the workmanship is excellent.

A case study:

1. For Brooks he makes the sack, Ivy League, and a modern American suit; 

2. For Donna Karan he used to make an Italian style suit inspired by Armani;

3. For Custom Clothier "X" he makes a suit inspired by the soft, soft shape of Anderson & Sheppard with "X's" exclusive patterns; and

4. For Custom Clothier "Y" he makes an English style suit based on Edward Sexton's models.


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## kitonbrioni (Sep 30, 2004)

All the garments I've gotten that I have assumed have come from Martin Greenfield's shop have been high quality fabric and workmanship. The styles have been rather average.


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## Lino (Apr 15, 2006)

Can you go directly to MGC in Brooklyn? Or do you have to go through one o the retailors?

Oh, and if you do go directly to the factory, is there any savings?


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

Lino said:


> Can you go directly to MGC in Brooklyn? Or do you have to go through one o the retailors?
> 
> Oh, and if you do go directly to the factory, is there any savings?


I don't believe their shop is open to the public or that he makes direct retail sales.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

Lino said:


> Can you go directly to MGC in Brooklyn? Or do you have to go through one o the retailors?
> 
> Oh, and if you do go directly to the factory, is there any savings?


My understanding is that Mr. Greenfield will work directly with a small number of his best customers but that he works only through retailers for the vast majority.


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## CharlieChannel (Mar 16, 2006)

Will said:


> "One annoying thing about the trousers from Brooks/Greenfield is that the buttons on the fly always come loose quickly."
> 
> As do the braces buttons. Easy to have fixed but one reason they don't quite rank with Oxxford.


The brace buttons are an issue. So try what Jay Walter
showed me: put the brace buttons on the OUTSIDE, where
they can be attached more firmly. They don't look 
bizarre, they don't look hillbilly, and it works. Now "I wouldn't
have them any other way."


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## LARon (Jun 19, 2006)

I've had about eight suits and three sportcoats MTM by Greenfield. To echo what's already been said, he is a wonderful human being who knows and is devoted to his craft, which makes interacting with him (or any true craftsman) a joy. He makes an excellent product, even if it doesn't reach the lofty heights of Oxxford or Kiton, something he doesn't claim to be. 

Overall, I think you're well served with a Greenfield MTM, particularly when comparing the cost to satisfaction ratio. You'll look and feel as good as if you were wearing Oxxford or Kiton, for substantially less money, even if you know you're not; something that matters only to you.

Have at it, and enjoy!


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## The Other Andy (Jan 9, 2008)

He does some great suits for Freeman's Sporting Club made from "dead stock" wool.

I've got one on order, so I'll let you know how it turns out. When I was being fitted I looked over a basted jacket they had in for someone else's first fitting, and it appeared the lapel was hand stitched at that point.


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## rssmsvc (Aug 5, 2004)

Did MG measure you ? For some reason he is not going out on the MTM run BB is having in March.


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

rssmsvc said:


> Did MG measure you ? For some reason he is not going out on the MTM run BB is having in March.


He's retired for all but symbolic purposes these days. Good for him and less good for others. When Martin measured you the suit fit.


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

rssmsvc said:


> Did MG measure you ? For some reason he is not going out on the MTM run BB is having in March.


I believe that Martin has cut-back on MTM roadshows involving travel, but he still does trunk shows in the NYC area and other major markets.

Martin Greenfield Clothiers is not just Martin. His sons, Jay and Tod, run the business on a day to day basis.


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## Romualdo (Oct 18, 2005)

MG makes a fine suit. You may also consider the following...

Adrian Jules
John H Daniel
Balfour Clothing
Tenuta Groop clothiers
Ciccarelli Custom Tailoring
Giliberto Designs


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