# That Southern Thing



## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Ok so I admit to being a "Yankee" and the only time I've spent in the South was the Florida Keys or Pawleys Island SC. I'm not sure if that really counts. 

I'm fascinated with all the new information about Southern schools, stores, sartorial traditions etc. I've learned from this forum. I've recently ordered some stuff from Eljo's (thanks Harris) and am very happy with the service.

I've seen mention of Charleston khakis, and a few other "brands" and items that are "Southern". If one were to put together a list, what all should be on it. Wearing Izod/Lacoste doesn't count because we have that up here too. LOL Thanks for the input.

Cheers


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## Goblin (Jan 31, 2006)

I grew up about 100 miles south of Orlando, and it's amazing how many people don't recognize Florida as part of the South. Outside of the big cities (aka "Occupied Florida"), it's as Southern as it gets.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Goblin,
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend, it's just I've never met anyone in the Keys or Pawleys Island who was actually from there.
Cheers


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Check out this link: https://www.kevinscatalog.com/default.asp

Madras, seersucker, safari jackets, hunting attire, plantation jackets, etc.

https://www.gradyervin.com/

(seems very 'preppy')


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

Berle's and Charleston Khakis, of course. (South Carolina)
R. Hanauer bowties, (bowties.com) (SC)
Peter Millar shirts(Tennessee)
Perlis (the crawfish polos) (Louisiana)
Ben Silver, Charleston, (SC) (a retailer but technically makes some stuff)

I'm sure there are lots of others, but those are the ones I think of right off the bat.

_Until a man is 25, he still believes, somewhere deep in his mind, that if the circumstances were right, he could be the baddest motherf***er in the world._

- Snowcrash, Neil Stephenson


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## Goblin (Jan 31, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> Goblin,
> Sorry, I didn't mean to offend, it's just I've never met anyone in the Keys or Pawleys Island who was actually from there.
> Cheers


Not offended at all! In fact, I'm not even sure if the rest of Florida claims the Keys.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

There was an older thread on 

And also through Google you can access a cache of 'Hey, You Southern Preppies'. The urls are such I can't provide the links, but do a site search for 'southern preppies' and click the 'Cache' link.


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## Tom Buchanan (Nov 7, 2005)

Strictly from observation, I would say that Old school Southern preppy would also include:

Duck Head pants (as pointed out before, no longer made).
Wellington roper style boots.
ribbon belts and oxfords with the SC Palmetto and Crescent Moon seal
Baseball caps with school or team logo, very broken in, and worn
even with coat and tie.
White bucks in Summer.
Lots of Skoal.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

Much of the look is maintained by the big SEC schools which each attract students by the thousands every year. People tend to adapt a more consistent style once in school, demonstrated by peers, similar in manner to the old ivy league, even if less refined and more casual.


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## HoustonTEX (Mar 21, 2005)

I don't have much to add but here are a couple of items from a Texas trad/preppy point of view.

- Fishing sunglasses with croakies (Costa Del Mars. Worn with OCBD, Kahkis, and polo shirts
- Patagonia or Columbia fishing shorts with short inseam. Worn with polo shirts.

non clothes
- Jon Hart luggage.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

AlanC
Thanks for the link, forgot about that.
HoustonTEX - "croakies"? what are fishing shorts and why short inseams?


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## Goblin (Jan 31, 2006)

Croakies are a slip-on glasses strap to keep your (polarized) sunglasses from falling in the water when you lean over to net or gaff a fish.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

To me, the bastion of southern prep/trad has always been Sea Island, Georgia. It is a very popular vacaction home spot for southerners that has a strict dress code for dinner and even bingo. Seersucker, bow ties, and madras are everywhere. www.seaisland.com


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## jmorgan32 (Apr 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Drinking and Drafting_
> 
> Berle's and Charleston Khakis, of course. (South Carolina)
> R. Hanauer bowties, (bowties.com) (SC)
> ...


My family is in Dallas. You should see the SMU campus area. Trad city.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by daltx_
> 
> To me, the bastion of southern prep/trad has always been Sea Island, Georgia. It is a very popular vacaction home spot for southerners that has a strict dress code for dinner and even bingo. Seersucker, bow ties, and madras are everywhere. www.seaisland.com


Sea Island, a trad's paradise. HW's favorite resort. Anyone who bemoans the "t-shirt and flip-flop table next to you", this is your next vacation spot.

*Those not in proper attire are promptly removed!*

No questions asked. You are out, gone, no "Sorry sir, but next time," only straight to the poolside snack bar. Think Willy Wonka style banishment it happens so quick.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by daltx_
> www.seaisland.com


I Love that link - thanks !

Now when can I schedule some time off.....


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

*daltx*, I love Sea Island and work for the architecture firm currently renovating The Cloister. It is a real pain to have to go visit the site during the week . I have to disagree with you, however, and say that the true bastion of southern trad is without doubt Charleston, SC, if not only because of the incredible number of clothiers. I also have to point out to *I_Should_Be_Working* to not discount ACC schools such as UNC, UVa, and Clemson (my school) in terms of Southern Prep.

_Until a man is 25, he still believes, somewhere deep in his mind, that if the circumstances were right, he could be the baddest motherf***er in the world._

- Snowcrash, Neil Stephenson


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## floutist (Jan 9, 2006)

My father was born in Orlando. I've made dozens of trips, to the South. What impressed me was that during winter, I saw some heavy, 'northern' looking clothes, being worn . . . especially by people BORN, in the South. Why? They told me that they enjoy experiencing some variety, in their wardrobes.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

Drinking and Drafting,

I have not had the opportunity to make it up to Charleston yet, but it is high on my list. I was speaking of Sea Island simply as the southern Trade vacation spot. As for permanent living, I would think Charleston must be number 1. I am in Texas, near the SMU area that was mentioned earlier.

For whoever mentioned adding Sea Island to their list, the golf is an unparalleled experience for both quality and service. (outside of maybe Pebble Beach)


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

I forgot to add this part to my last post to Drinking and Drafting.

What do you think of the new Cloister design. I was in Sea Island this past summer and saw much of the progress. It looks great, my only concern was that it might make the island more commercialized than it has been in the past. What do you think?


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## HoustonTEX (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> AlanC
> Thanks for the link, forgot about that.
> HoustonTEX - "croakies"? what are fishing shorts and why short inseams?


The patagonia shorts are called stand up shorts. They have made them for years. The used to only come in 5 inch inseams. The short ones is a trad trend that has stuck. I think it is for the trad/preppy kids to be different by not wearing the typical long cargo shorts that are sold these days. I would even say it is more of a southern thing than a texas thing.

https://www.patagonia.com/za/PDC?OP...9&sku=57220&ws=false&promo_cat=&promo_cat_id=

Texas loves the preppy/trad/outdoors guy combination. I guess that is why the croakies are so popular too.

I vacation in Seaside, FL this summer and it was mostly Texas and Southern Families there. Saw a lot of the short shorts and shades on strings there


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## HoustonTEX (Mar 21, 2005)

daltx,

I am almost your neighbor. I don't live by SMU. I am just a little east. I do go to church close to SMU. Although my name is HoustonTex I have been in the Dallas since I graduate from college. Good to have another Texan here though.

Seaisland is now on my list of places to go.


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

Well, daltx, I do believe that greatly expanding the Cloister with luxury condos ans residences will not make the island more commercial so much as simply more populated. They have all been sold out since not long after construction first started and many went to friends and family of current residents. The price point also prices the majority of people out of the market (intern architects included). I don't know if they will make it more commercial as they promise to provide the same level of hospitality and individual attention they always have. 
Certainly more people will now be able to enjoy the Cloister but I don't think this will terribly alter the exclusive feel of the resort. Some people, especially Southerners, view any change as a bad change, however.

_Until a man is 25, he still believes, somewhere deep in his mind, that if the circumstances were right, he could be the baddest motherf***er in the world._

- Snowcrash, Neil Stephenson


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

HoustonTEX,

Glad to hear there is another member in the area. Have any favorite stores in Dallas?

Drinking and Drafting,

I am willing to embrace the new Cloister with open arms. I'm glad to hear it is not going to commercial on us. I'm very jealous of your weekly visits.


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## HoustonTEX (Mar 21, 2005)

daltx,

I have bought Bills Khakis and Peter Millar shirts from Culwell & Son. I have thought about getting some suits there. Other than that I go to BB, Nordstroms, and Neiman Marcus. Orivs for hunting and outdoors.


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by HoustonTEX_
> 
> I don't have much to add but here are a couple of items from a Texas trad/preppy point of view.
> 
> ...


This is dead on from my expirience in NC. The Del Mars, croakie, button down or polo, and khaki is almost a uniform. Some of the preppy men's stores sell thier own croakies.

However I don't wear shorts at all, much less the short inseam ones.

It's been said that the culture of Florida is the reverse of its geography. Northern Florida is very much the plantation South of Georgia and Alabama, while central Florida is heavily populated with the snow birds and retirees, and Southern Florida is almost entirely removed from Southern culture.

Eventually, these will actually be for sale. https://southernproper.com/ I dont know anyone who has thier hands on one of these ties yet though.

Southern Trads often participate in the carcinogenic preparation of hogs. This will vary from region to region though. Some use the whole hog, others just the shoulders or ribs.

And the campus emblematic...

I'll try and think of some other things.

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Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by crazyquik_
> 
> Southern Trads often participate in the carcinogenic preparation of hogs. This will vary from region to region though. Some use the whole hog, others just the shoulders or ribs.


No Southern college experience would be complete without a pig roast (or cochon d'lait as we would call it). Once again, many came to college having never enjoyed such activities, but the mainline traditional schools indoctrinate the unexposed to the old ways.

A designated upper classman would generally take charge of sourcing the pig (typically a suckling) and the manner of roasting. Depending upon region, some use a large trailer pit, others an in ground fire pit, or for the proper cochon d'lait, the pig will hang above and slightly offset from the fire cooked by the rising smoke. The whole affair would last anywhere from 12 to 24 hours excluding the accompanying social event. Some stayed awake the entire time, but were often left too intoxicated to tell the difference from a rib or an ear.

Attending three schools during my undergraduate years with intent focus on social endeavors (we'll just say my academic credentials were burnished later in graduate school), I had the pleasure to enjoy quite a few.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

I googled croakies and found lots of information. Man....those are just what I need when I garden in July and August. Tort shell frames + sweat = glasses in the dirt. And to thinkall I needed to do was ask my southern brothers. 
Cheers


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

https://southernproper.com/index.html

A Southern version of Vineyard Vines? Something tells me the quality is likely the same--printed emblematics.

Cheers,
Harris


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

Pig picking is the term in the Carolinas for a whole hog prepared (usually in a trailer cooker) and then when you are served you walk by and literally pick the meat from the bones.

However locally in central NC, we only prepare the shoulders, then serve it chopped. Also usually on a trailer cooker.

I've never had BBQ ribs, but that's preferred by some.

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Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by I_Should_Be_Working_
> 
> Attending three schools during my undergraduate years with intent focus on social endeavors (we'll just say my academic credentials were burnished later in graduate school), I had the pleasure to enjoy quite a few.


Well that's not just a southern thing, esp if you belonged to a frat. I think I was on probation more time then not. The "Gentleman's C" was something to aspire to. LOL
Cheers


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Before leaving for university my father instructed me "Remember, D stands for Diploma, except in your major. Then you need a C."

Croakies are de riguer, except for me as I wear eyeglasses.


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## Wimsey (Jan 28, 2006)

I haven't lived in the south for 20 years, so my experience is somewhat dated, although I go back to visit several times a year. Some southern observations from when I was growing up:

Lighter color suits - you don't see this as much as you used to 20-30 years ago, but light colored suits (sky blue, tan, cream) are a fairly traditional southern choice, often with a string tie or bolo. (FWIW, Col. Sander's suit (i.e., the one he actually wore) is not white; it's actually a SB cream suit with peak lapels.

I think that tie clips (bar shaped) are much more common in the south than elsewhere.

Loafers - I really don't remember seeing very many traditional southerner gentlemen wearing loafers - it was always lace ups. (Often black, even with light colored suits).

Cuff links - this is hard to judge, but I think at least in the 70's, they were more common in the south than elsewhere. 

Suspenders - remained very popular in the south, even when almost no one else was wearing them anyplace else. (And don't call them "braces" - marketers started using the Brit english term "braces" to refer to suspenders in the 80's to suggest that they were something classic and european, not old-fashioned and southern. Braces are something you put on your teeth...


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

Wimsey, good observations. The only lace ups I see much here in SC are boat shoes. The penny loafer and tassle loafer seem to be, as my brother stated "the official dress shoe of South Carolina."

For what it's worth on the hog issue, my fraternity roasts a whole pig every homecoming game.

If anybody really really wants to see some Southern prep, find some photos from the Carolina Cup Steeplechase in Camden, SC or the one they hold in Virginia, the name escapes me.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

The Virginia race is known as Foxfield.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Note: They don't mention the mosquitoes.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Drinking and Drafting_
> 
> Wimsey, good observations. The only lace ups I see much here in SC are boat shoes. The penny loafer and tassle loafer seem to be, as my brother stated "the official dress shoe of South Carolina."
> 
> ...


Go to www.vineyardvines.com and look at their photo section.

They came to The Cup a few years back and have some good pics of the attendees. You'll see lots of seersucker, bowties, etc.
Lots of pretty ladies as well!


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## HoustonTEX (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> https://southernproper.com/index.html
> 
> ...


https://www.vineyardvines.com = = https://southernproper.com/

We will see if the later ones can have the success of Ian and Shep at Vineyardvines. Vinyardvines have become increasing popular down here.


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

Thanks, DownSouth, I have been to the Cup for the past 4 years, I remember VV having tons of people at the last one, wearing the Whale caps and giving out stickers. That's one of the few things I remember about that day [xx(].
Here is a direct link for anyone interested in a pretty good example of Southern prep, although Cup this year was on a dreadfully cloudy, windy, and cold day.
https://www.vineyardvines.com/index...0-92e5-ef8cc66847f9/fuseaction/content.photos

_Until a man is 25, he still believes, somewhere deep in his mind, that if the circumstances were right, he could be the baddest motherf***er in the world._

- Snowcrash, Neil Stephenson


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by crazyquik_
> 
> I've never had BBQ ribs...


[:0]


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

I think it's safe to say that most (young) Southern "preppies" don't give a damn about darts and pleats--they'll happily wear 'em. Sometimes--and I hate to wonder such--I wonder if "Southern Prep" has mostly to do with bowties, big hair, a navy blazer, and Polo Ralph Lauren. And going sockless with any sort of loafer or boat shoe. 

Cheers, Harris


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

I agree somewhat with what Harris said about darts and southern preps. All of my suits and sport coats are slightly darted (all from BB) with the exception of my recently acquired Press sack blazer. I bought from BB because that is all I knew. It seems as though all places that sell sack suits are in the Northeast. I don't think southerners are as aware that there is another option. I know that I plan on investing mainly in sack suits in the future, now that I have discovered the difference. Hopefully others will see the light soon.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Not too long ago, somebody made a charge that, according to his experience, young Southern "preppies" wore tons of Polo-RL. I believe I offered a defense of some kind. If so, I did so prematurely. It seems like every time I return to Dixie for a party or social gathering of some sort, I see that damned Polo pony-and-player everywhere. I'm not sure what it is about Southern boys and Polo-RL, but it seems they sure as hell love it. And I'm talking about the best that McCallie, Baylor, Woodberry, and Christ School have to offer. Oh well.

-Harris


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

Well, Harris, I would say that you present a sort of a different view of Southern prep than I have as a first-hander, but there is truth in your statement. Polo dominates the landscape, with VV, Lacoste, Brooks as other logos you might see in the landscape. I guess I am in the minority who have expanded their sartorial selection beyond just logos. However I will stand by the satement that, on average, Southern (Texas included) college students tend to dress better than their counterparts in other parts of the country (namely NY, NJ, Mass.). I would rather have Polos and croakies than AF cargos, K Swiss sneakers, and a gelled up coiffure any day.

_Until a man is 25, he still believes, somewhere deep in his mind, that if the circumstances were right, he could be the baddest motherf***er in the world._

- Snowcrash, Neil Stephenson


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> I think it's safe to say that most (young) Southern "preppies" don't give a damn about darts and pleats--they'll happily wear 'em. Sometimes--and I hate to wonder such--I wonder if "Southern Prep" has mostly to do with bowties, big hair, a navy blazer, and Polo Ralph Lauren. And going sockless with any sort of loafer or boat shoe.
> 
> Cheers, Harris


Given the guys I work with, it would be great if they dressed this way. Perhaps not "trad" as you envision, but certainly a step up.
Cheers


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

Harris, my friend, have discussed this with you.
I have always thought the south, is the place to be to see well dressed men and women.
It is an attitude, that makes this happen.
I am a New Englander, spent most my military life in the south, and feel confident that I can say this.
Big difference at the colleges.
I find the dress at any souther institution, much better than in New England as well.
You will see BB buttondowns, khaki etc.
Again, the attitude to dress elegantly, and be a lady or a gentleman.
You do not see this elsewhere.
Nice day my friends.


Jimmy


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

Exactly, DukeGrad.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

Regarding RL, most Southern cities are not so large as to feature a Neiman Marcus, Saks, or local stores which may offer a width of luxury brands. Almost any city above 100k in population, however, has a Dillards. And guess what Dillards offers - lots of Polo.

True, there are local institutions, and it is not that people don't travel (and often they do travel to shop). But for younger people not seeking clothing to last 20 years, and who likely prefer wash and wear, RL fits the bill. If for no other reason, truth be told, you will likely not end up looking like Amjack or something else, in most (emphasize most, there are exceptions) of what Polo blue label markets. Its about as easy as buying uniforms.


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Drinking and Drafting_
> 
> Wimsey, good observations. The only lace ups I see much here in SC are boat shoes. The penny loafer and tassle loafer seem to be, as my brother stated "the official dress shoe of South Carolina."
> 
> ...


I remember going to Foxfield (the horse race in Virginia to which you refer) when I was going to college in Virginia. One year, a guy who was the date of my date's friend (got that?) was from Princeton University. The Princeton guy stood up on the tailgate and looked around and commented on how beautiful and blonde everyone was and that the crowd at the races looked like it should be in some magazine. This was in April so it was khakis, ties and blazers for guys - sun dresses for the girls. It really was very pleasant - like some Ralph Lauren advertisement seen through the blissful haze of much bourbon. You know you're down south when even the guy vomiting on the grass oh his hands and knees from too much alcohol is wearing weejuns and a blazer.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Rocker,
Great story.
Cheers


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

Something worth adding to the discussion: Around these parts and in places similar to this area further north, there are plenty of old, old WASP families that include fathers and sons who are legacies at places like Amherst, Williams, Hamilton, Dartmouth, etc. It's likely they prepped at Lawrenceville, Peddie, Wardlaw-Hartridge, Deerfield, or some other school that's not yet been tainted by a fashionably liberal political correctness. (Yes, there are PLENTY of conservatives up here!) You'd be shocked at how many middle-aged Andover grads refuse to send their sons where they went because...well, it just ain't what it was. The more traditional prep schools--complete with classical curriculum and dress code--are getting tons of business, as they should.

I dare say they're just as trad as any Woodberry, VES, Hampden-Sydney, UVA, or Sewanee boy--in terms of both dress and manners. But the differences are there: whereas the "Southern Preppy" look entails Polo-RL oxford, VV bowtie, pleated khakis, bucks, and navy blazer from wherever, the look that's fostered by the mult-generational trads above the Mason-Dixon is influenced more by places in the cities like Press and The Andover Shop--the places where their fathers shopped while in college or during lunch hour. So, it stands to reason that the trads up here--though perhaps fewer in number than what Dixie boasts--adhere more strictly/closely to the old school trad look.

"Down South," one sees that so-called "Preppy" look accessorized by, as previously mentioned, a can of Skoal, Croakies, and a Ford Explorer. Or Jeep Wrangler. Not so much up here. I can say quite a lot about Princeton, a campus I've known well for a long time. The few hardcore trads (mostly legacies) seem to prefer old VW Beetles and old Benz's that their parents were finally finished with. They're here, though they stay pretty close to Prospect. You might see them at Acceptable lunch spots like PJ's and The Annex, but probably rarely.

Cheers,
Harris


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

Now y'all are on a subject in which I was once a "master of the universe" (to use Tom Wolfe's phrase).

As Harris has pointed out, RL dominates southern prep clothing. As a graduate of McCallie (1970-something!), I know that we and the Baylor bas**rds all did our best to keep the Lacoste factory churning away. As Lacoste faded from the scene, RL took over. It's still the same boys from Lookout Mountain, Signal Mountain, or "the lake", but now all wearing a pony instead of a gator on the breast. 

In the '70s, though, the department stores were crammed with the 'gator on shirts, socks, etc and no self-respecting prep would be seen at a casual event -- which included most frat parties -- without a Lacoste shirt. (Lambda Chi's standard admonishment: "No, no; the pledge pin goes UNDER the gator".)

If memory serves, there was a tiny, dingy outlet store southwest of Chattanooga that had heaps of Lacoste shirts for less than half price, and often times the seconds with obvious boo-boos could be had for $5. Much cheaper than Loveman's department store! 

We wore lots of OCBD shirt worn over Lacoste shirts, or two Lacoste shirts of different colors, worn with khakis or madras pants (the sartorially daring of us would sometimes wear Levis 501s). During those long sticky summers, shorts with boxers peeping out were de rigueur, as were LL Bean camp mocs or Sperry Topsiders worn without socks.

We wore blue blazers and flannels to "dress up", often with the school tie in a sloppy 4-in-hand. Weejuns were the preferred dress shoe, and even then were often worn sans socks. I owned a dinner jacket in my high school days, which was required as an escort for coming-out balls. I'll also admit to wearing "full dress", which we understood to mean a Confederate officer's dress uniform, to several Chi-O cotillions. Perhaps the only truly awful sartorial choice is reflected in my choice of white tuxedo with champagne trim worn at my high school junior prom!

I was home in Chattanooga late last summer, and stopped into a local watering hole near the UTC campus on the advice of my daughter (who WILL get her bachelor's this year -- or else) and was amused to see a group of Skeets dressed in almost the exact fashions as we wore more than 25 years ago!

The older professional preps don't seem to have changed much either. During lunch hour, I was gratified to see most of the businessmen, even many of the younger guys, walking down Market Street wearing the same grey sack suits and white OCBDs my father wore. I distinctly remember seeing two older men with round tortiseshell glasses, one of whom sported a pink bow tie. My wife was both amused and horrifed to see that men actually dressed that way!

We also spent a few days with relatives on St. Simon's Island where its very, very easy to distinguish the tourists from the natives. Believe me, they didn't even have to speak to let one know they weren't locals. Just as I'd remembered, the local dress was timeless prep.

Yes, southern prep is alive and flourishing!


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by jlmwrite_
> 
> Now y'all are on a subject in which I was once a "master of the universe" (to use Tom Wolfe's phrase).
> 
> ...


Tons of you McCallie boys populated my undergraduate college. Big hair! I've never seen such big hair! Able drinkers, as well.

My father attended a certain school in TN that served as one of McCallie's rivals.

Are GPS girls still worth the time and energy? Do tell.

Cheers!
Harris


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jlmwrite_
> I'll also admit to wearing "full dress", which we understood to mean a Confederate officer's dress uniform, to several Chi-O cotillions.


No offense intended but is this fairly common? The only time I've ever seen this was in the movie Steel Magnolias, and even then I thought it was made up. 
Cheers


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Not too long ago, somebody made a charge that, according to his experience, young Southern "preppies" wore tons of Polo-RL. I believe I offered a defense of some kind. If so, I did so prematurely. It seems like every time I return to Dixie for a party or social gathering of some sort, I see that damned Polo pony-and-player everywhere. I'm not sure what it is about Southern boys and Polo-RL, but it seems they sure as hell love it. And I'm talking about the best that McCallie, Baylor, Woodberry, and Christ School have to offer. Oh well.
> 
> -Harris


Harris,
its the difference between real preps and psuedo-preps in my experience.
But that may just apply in the North


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

I guess things have changed. I graduated from college in 1990 - went to a small liberal arts private college in Virginia. I have NO recollection of Ralph Lauren polos being much, if any, of a presence on campus. Easily 95% of the khakis were flat front. In fact, I think only one guy in my House with about 80 members wore pleated khakis. The Vineyard Vines thing didn't exist back then. What was de rigueur was redwing boots, a shotshell belt from Orvis, and a hunting jacket of some kind (usually Bean or Filson). As other have mentioned, Duck Head Khakis were extremely common. Boots along with dirty bucks and weejuns were the shoes of choice. Top Siders were largely non-existent (a bit cliched by then and the only ones I can recall wearing them were Yankees) though, Bean camp bluchers were fairly common as were Maine Hunting shoes during the winter months (very useful for trodding across beer puddles on warped fraternity house wooden floors). Anything but Levis jeans would invite rebuke and social rejection.

It was evident as my college went co-ed, that the incoming classes increasingly dressed less correctly. Getting rid of personal interviews for admission has done a lot to kill the â€œclubinessâ€ of the place and the relative uniformity of appearance/manner of the student body, as well â€“ in my opinion. I have to say, being a Yankee, the Southerners had much finer style than the Yankees. The people who dressed the cheesiest mostly came from the North â€“ and in particular â€“ New Jersey and New York (I came from New Jersey, at the time). I donâ€™t recall any Southerner sporting an earring or jewelry, while it was not uncommon among some elements from the North. Things that were considered absolute "No-Nos" were knit ties (a/k/a "Sock ties"), cotton/poly blends, designer anything, and anything but boxer shorts for underwear. Darts were not an issue.


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## HoustonTEX (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Not too long ago, somebody made a charge that, according to his experience, young Southern "preppies" wore tons of Polo-RL. I believe I offered a defense of some kind. If so, I did so prematurely. It seems like every time I return to Dixie for a party or social gathering of some sort, I see that damned Polo pony-and-player everywhere. I'm not sure what it is about Southern boys and Polo-RL, but it seems they sure as hell love it. And I'm talking about the best that McCallie, Baylor, Woodberry, and Christ School have to offer. Oh well.
> 
> -Harris


You are correct. I have owned more Polo-RL in my life than any other label. I even remember a friend in high school going to bording school up north and being shocked that his classmates not only did not wear polo but made fun of it. I even have a sport shirt on today with that damn player. My two year already calls it her pony. Thanks to this board I am working to cure my addiction to that little guy


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

Harris your comments about skoal, jeep wrangler or a ford exployer is what I have been trying to say.
It is an attitude.
Most Yankees do not get out of the north.
Vacations are the Cape, and shopping at the Andover shop are the thing to do.

You need to get to Myrtle Beach and go SHAGGING!!
Most New Englanders I know have this feeling about the south.
They do not appreciate the charm of the south, and can not appreciate the attitude of being a woman, or a gentleman.
Their loss, in my opinion.
They are educated at the preps, go to a New England school, then vacation at the Cape.

To be honest, outside of NYC, and Boston and Philly, most of the New England area, chews tobacco, drives a 4WD, and drinks beer.
New Englanders have to learn what southern charm is all about.
Before they can comment on the South.

You need to spenfd time there, not travel there.
Totally beautiful place, the south.
When I am in NYC, or New England, my BP is 160/98.
When I get below the Mason Dixon line, it is 120/70.
Big difference, 

Have a nice day my friends



Jimmy


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was common for the Kappa Alpha Fraternity to do that every year at their "old South" party - pledges wore enlisted uniforms, brothers wore officers. I know, personally, it went on at W&L, U. of Florida, and Wake Forest, and, to my knowledge, it is/was a fraternity-wide practice. In some schools they posed for their Fraternity composites in uniforms. I don't know if this still goes on now that large segments of indoctrinated Americans are inclined to equate the Confederacy with Nazi Germany.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rocker_
> In some schools they posed for their Fraternity composites in uniforms. I don't know if this still goes on now that large segments of indoctrinated Americans are inclined to equate the Confederacy with Nazi Germany.


Alas, all we wore were dinner jackets with frat pin (unless already given away), sounds kind of dull by comparison.
Cheers


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was at U. of Florida - thought it a bit over-the-top. Like the dinner jacket idea much better.


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## HoustonTEX (Mar 21, 2005)

This entire talk has made wonder where my beloved state fits. It is not southern although saying that will enrage my Houston friends. However, Texas trad seems very similar to Southern trad. If I had stayed in Houston I would have been a 4th generation Houstonian. Something my grandmother would have been proud of. My grandmother spoke with one of the most southern accents I have heard but had not direct link to the south. Her friends were the same. Perhaps Houston's proximity to Louisiana has given it a southern feel. Dallas does seem little different than Houston did to me. That is probably just since I didn't grow up here. I am not real sure where we fit in the big picture. I would be interested in what my fellow Texans think about Texas and its place in the world.


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

I love 'Nooga. Went to a wedding there in the late 80s. Father of the bride had a house on Lookout Mtn. Reminded me of a National Park. Time of my life and have never seen so much Southern Prep and so much drinking. 

My southern trad is more NC, a little DC and some NE Florida. From 1980 to 1989:
Duck Heads (Still have three pr)
Ray Ban Aviators
Blucher Moccs
OCBDs J Press and BB - Stripes
Devon Cologne
Boxers
Polo Madras Trousers
V Neck sweater with college logo
Stan Smith Adidas Tennis shoes
A Walkman
Stan Kramer Wood Racquet
M Magazine
Britches of Georgetown Polos (Warthog?)
Needlepoint Belts Pink and Green w/ Initials
1911 Springfield Belt
Canvas Sperrys (White or bluer)
Seerscuker pants
The j Crew catalog (with that hot brunette)


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by HoustonTEX_
> I would be interested in what my fellow Texans think about Texas and its place in the world.


While not a fellow Texan, but speaking as some one who spent many a lovely business trip to DFW (mostly the FW part). I always have viewed Texas as slightly separate from the South, sort of like you were your own country once. [8D]


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by HoustonTEX_
> 
> This entire talk has made wonder where my beloved state fits. It is not southern although saying that will enrage my Houston friends. However, Texas trad seems very similar to Southern trad. If I had stayed in Houston I would have been a 4th generation Houstonian. Something my grandmother would have been proud of. My grandmother spoke with one of the most southern accents I have heard but had not direct link to the south. Her friends were the same. Perhaps Houston's proximity to Louisiana has given it a southern feel. Dallas does seem little different than Houston did to me. That is probably just since I didn't grow up here. I am not real sure where we fit in the big picture. I would be interested in what my fellow Texans think about Texas and its place in the world.


I was curious about this as well. Texas was part of the Confederacy - but, I always thought Texans considered themselves more western than southern. I know I had one gentleman here in Georgia tell me that "Texas is not southern" and I think many people in the deep South hold that impression - it seems that I've heard this said before.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Agreed. Most Southern types do not really think of Texas as "the South". Just as many have mixed feelings about Kentucky.

Although I did find that scene in "Life Aquatic" about Air Kentucky rather funny - even if somewhat baseless.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

HoustonTEX,

I think that Texas, like most states has people who fit the southern trad description and has people who want to stay up to date with the latest GQ styles. I think in general the more tradly people in Texas are described as fratty. This can be seen if you have spent any time at the University of Texas. 

As for Dallas specifically, I think many of the suburbs have drifted away from the southern charm and tradition, but I think much of Dallas proper and most of Fort Worth have stayed relatively true to the Southern style. There are several prep schools in the area whose students would very accurately fit that description.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> I love 'Nooga. Went to a wedding there in the late 80s. Father of the bride had a house on Lookout Mtn. Reminded me of a National Park. Time of my life and have never seen so much Southern Prep and so much drinking.
> 
> ...


1911 Springfield belt? Please explain! Pictures?


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

> quote:Are GPS girls still worth the time and energy? Do tell.


Harris -- if memory serves (and I believe it does!), to get a date at GPS, one merely had to park in the lower lot and sit on the hood of one's car. 'Twas an irresistible thing to those ticky-tack clad lasses...



> quote:I love 'Nooga. Went to a wedding there in the late 80s. Father of the bride had a house on Lookout Mtn. Reminded me of a National Park.


tintin -- Much of Lookout Mountain IS a national park!



> quote:No offense intended but is this fairly common? The only time I've ever seen this was in the movie Steel Magnolias, and even then I thought it was made up.


mrpcsb -- It was extremely common thru the '40s and '50s. By the time I'd entered college in the tail-end of the '70s, traditional cotillions were only part of fraternity life. I'm not sure if those still take place, but I'm guessing in these politically "correct" times Confederate dress would not be tolerated.



> quote:I was curious about this as well. Texas was part of the Confederacy - but, I always thought Texans considered themselves more western than southern. I know I had one gentleman here in Georgia tell me that "Texas is not southern" and I think many people in the deep South hold that impression - it seems that I've heard this said before.


Rocker -- No, we never considered Texas to be part of the Old South. Southern perhaps, but not part of the south. I briefly lived in San Antonio, and came away with the conviction that Texas is an area unique unto itself.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

I'd be interested in seeing Needlepoint Belts Pink and Green w/ Initials as was mentioned above. Where can someone find one of these and are there any pictures?


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## hbb1283 (Aug 25, 2004)

I went to school at LSU, live in New Orleans, and have spent extensive time in Memphis, Nashville, Birmingham, and Atlanta as well as visiting every SEC school at least once.

The most "preppy" schools that I have been to are Millsaps (Jackson, MS), Sewanee in Tennessee (b/w Chatanooga and Nashville) and Ole Miss. After that it would probably be Alabama and Georgia. The preppy attire is dominated by the Greeks, so the schools where fraternities are more popular (Millsaps and Ole Miss student bodies are almost 75% Greek) have more preppy dressers and less t-shirt and jeans guys. Now, keep in mind that all of the big SEC schools have a pretty high Greek student body, although they have been shrinking in recent years. 

Your typical greek guy at any southern school will be wearing the following: Dingy school logo hat; BB, Polo (most popular) long sleeve BDC/ Polo (most popular), Lacoste, BB polo style shirt; pleated khakis/jeans, Top Siders/New Balance tennis shoes; brown belt; Northface fleece when cold.

At our semi-formal parties most (if not all) wore: white Polo BDC, tie, navy blazer, pleated khakis, shoes varied considerably (Doc Marten, boat shoes, saddle-oxfords).


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

1911 Springfield belt looks just like a Springfield rifle sling. These were pop-pop-popular in the late 70s and early 80s. They have since disappeared. 

My pink and green belt was needlepointed for me by my college girlfriend. She was from Albany, GA and had a lot of spare time. Later, after marrying a nice girl from the midwest, I was told to throw it out. It was a green stripe bordered top and bottom with pink. Initials were at the right front by the leather harness.


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## hbb1283 (Aug 25, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rocker_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was most likely the Kappa Alpha Order (KA). They trace their history back to Robert E. Lee and take pride in being very "Southern". Most chapters have balls in which members dress as confederate soldiers and when dress in ball gowns circa Civil War period. Think Gone with the Wind.

That was at U. of Florida - thought it a bit over-the-top. Like the dinner jacket idea much better.


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## Goblin (Jan 31, 2006)

I had friends who were KAs at U. of F. back when the "Gainesville Killer" was on the loose. The father of two of my friends was quoted in the paper as saying he wasn't worried at all about the Gainesville Killer breaking into the KA house where they lived, as they were all country boys with guns and could shoot straight, or something along those lines.

(For the record, the part of Florida where they [and I] grew up is more of a cowboy/******* area, without so much of the stereotypical "Antebellum South" atmosphere of North Florida. Copenhagen, not Skoal. ]


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DukeGrad_
> 
> Gentlemen
> 
> ...


Now you're talking, Jimmy! 
Fire up the jukebox with some Billy Ward and the Dominoes, Hank Ballard, Champion Jack Dupre, etc.
It don't get any better!!

Oh yeah, got to have those Bass Weejuns with the leather soles, no socks, plain front khakis, and OCBD, with a cold one in one hand and your dance partner in the other.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

DownSouth


LOL,
There is nothing better than the beach, a juke box, and a cold beer and some shagging!
That is all I did on my free time.
Big difference than the cape that is for sure.


You have a nice day, my friend

Jimmy


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

I remember driving down to Myrtle Beach from Ft. Bragg when I was 21. Dancing with women twice my age. Frosted short hair, pink nail polish, holding a tall boy in one hand and a Virginia Slim in the other. "Be a sweethaart, baby and fetch me another beeaarh." Then we'd go to another bar in her baby blue Cadillac and...Well, I better stop there. But I remember the buttons on Lilly P could be a bugger to undo.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

TinTin

LOL, you got it.

Bragg was a little quieter when I was there, now it is so big, every command is there now.
But Myrtle beach was happening then.
I did not think anyone would know shagging.
We got to get Harris to go there, in his Brooks sack suit, and weejuns and no socks, hook him up with a 21 yo hottie!
LOL
Oh God what a time.

My friend, have a nice day.
Airborne!


Jimmy


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## hbb1283 (Aug 25, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by hbb1283_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## hbb1283 (Aug 25, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rocker_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was most likely the Kappa Alpha Order (KA). They trace their history back to Robert E. Lee and take pride in being very "Southern". Most chapters have balls in which members dress as confederate soldiers and women dress in ball gowns circa Civil War period. Think Gone with the Wind.


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## ColeFieldHouse (Aug 26, 2005)

Grady, Grady, Grady...whatever is that notch-lapel dinner jacket doing on your southern trad website?


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Can those be squared toe shoes?? Nasty.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by jlmwrite_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good Lord in heaven above, thank you for GPS. I mean that. Seriously. Amen.


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## young guy (Jan 6, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jlmwrite_
> During those long sticky summers, shorts with boxers peeping out were de rigueur,


Ok, so this is the not the first time I've seen this said on this forum. What's this all about? I don't know about you, but I think all of my shorts are long enough so that my boxers don't "peep out". I only hope this is some king of humor I don't quite get. If it is CUE ME IN!

And thanks for all the fish. (maybe not trad but funny if you know the reference)


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

tintin,

Do you know of anywhere other than through your old college girlfriend to get the needlepoint belts with initials that you referenced earlier? I'd be very interested in tracking down one of these, or at least seeing what one looks like.


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## HoustonTEX (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by young guy_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It goes back to the short inseams. My older cousins while in high school in the 80's used to wear their shorts short enough that their boxers could be seen. The short patagonia often have this affect too. I would never do it now


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

> quote: I don't know about you, but I think all of my shorts are long enough so that my boxers don't "peep out". I only hope this is some king of humor I don't quite get. If it is CUE ME IN!


Extra large boxers worn under 6" inseams khaki or madras shorts guaranteed about 1/2" of "linen" to show!

And sadly enough, there WAS no joke. It was just one of those things, we did like not wearing socks with loafers or pairing a pink Lacoste shirt with whale-design pants...


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## familyman (Sep 9, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by HoustonTEX_
> 
> I would be interested in what my fellow Texans think about Texas and its place in the world.


I've only been in Texas for about 6 years now but here's how I've come to see it through the eyes of the natives. 
To the west of us is New Mexico, that's the west. 
To the north of us is Okalhoma, they're one of the plains states. 
To the east of us is Louisiana and they're southern. 
To the south of us is Mexico, we still hate them. 
We're Texas, we have our own history, we fought for our own independence and won dammit! We're bigger and better than any place else!

Now, I don't buy into all of this. The people I meet that are most adamant about Texas being the best damn place on earth have never been out of a three county radius, never see real snow and have certainly never been 'north'. They wouldn't want to go even if you dragged them. The place certainly has it's own culture though, it bleeds around the edges a bit, to the east you get very strong cajun influence, to the west it certainly feels like the west, but texas is really truly big enough and covers enough different geographical and cultural areas that it feels different. I also think that transplants from elsewhere are more likely to buy into being a texan and assimilate to the percieved cultured than anywhere else. Notice for instance the bumper stickers that read "I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as soon as I could"

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford.

John Adams


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

Harris,

I do have the upmost respect for GPS girls for some, ummm, deeply religous experiences while parked by the lake, or on the bluff on Signal Mountain. There was also one incredible afternoon in the stacks of the old UTC library. By golly, Harris, I'd quite forgotten that until now!

Oh, and Vicki -- should you ever read this, just because you found Bitsy's barrette in my car _still_ doesn't mean a thing. I should hope you (and your father) would have forgiven me by now...


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## sunnisalafi (Feb 20, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> Can those be squared toe shoes?? Nasty.


Those _aren't_ square-toes.


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## winn (Dec 31, 2005)

_You might see them at Acceptable lunch spots like PJ's and The Annex, but probably rarely._(Harris, 17 February 2006)

"The Annex, RIP"

After 60 years, The Annex will close by the end of the month. The third-generation owners, brothers Rich and Joe Carnevale and their first cousins, brothers John and Tino Procaccini, will convert the place to a "ristorante" by Mid-March, named "Sotto".

Crying into my club sandwich,
Winn


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by DukeGrad_
> 
> TinTin
> 
> ...


 Fat Harold's in O.D., The Pad lives in my memory!

"....like an angel piddlin' in yer ale...." TINKER DILL, Antiquarian Consultant, Bon Vivant, Bard of East Anglia

jamgood: better quality new clothing, never described as "Amazing", @ 60-90% off retail https://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZjamgoodQQhtZ-!


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jlmwrite_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think this may go back to the Preppy Handbook. I remember reading it with friends and laughing that this was actually mentioned. We had always assumed it happened and was not big deal but to actually put it in print was really funny. Shorts had shorter inseams back then, this happened to any guy who wore boxers. I think it now is probably just a cliche (sp?) Most of my shorts are long enough that this really doesn't happen anymore, well except maybe sometimes.

Oh and I still don't wear socks with loafers, never did.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

It's likely you'll see Southern Trad at it's (online) best/finest as you peruse the "photos" section of good 'ol Sewanee's site. 
https://ur.sewanee.edu/alumni

Fairly typical : bowties, blazers, tweeds, seersucker, etc. I think Sewanee may still have an undergraduate dress code. Not sure.

Cheers,
Harris


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Radney Foster is an alum? Always liked his music...


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

> quote:I think this may go back to the Preppy Handbook.


Sorry... Lisa Birnbach published TPH in 1980. I was in high school _well_ before then, and boxers hanging out from under shorts was something I'd seen years before from friend's older brothers and even from a few of the younger dads!

Much like standing on the backs of one's Topsiders, it was just... I dunno, just something that we all did. In those days we didn't analyze how we dressed; we emulated our parents, older brothers, seniors at school, and so on. Looking back, I think some of the preppy styles were a bit much (and lampooned quite nicely by Lisa Birnbach) but those styles were as much a part of growing up preppy as enormous station wagons, large dogs, and sailboats.

My hair is much shorter than it was in 1977, the pictures of me in trendy outfits from the early '70s make me cringe, yet I still wear Topsiders sans socks year round, all my khakis are plain front, and when I taught my boys to tie a tie, it was the 4-in-hand knot they learned.

My wife has given up on trying to reform me on most of my preppy dress-- but now all of my shorts have 8" inseams so my boxers no longer shyly peek out!


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jlmwrite_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree. My point which must not have been clear is that we did't _think_ or _talk_ about boxers peeping out from under shorts, it just the sort of way it was. I think the first time I actually noticed it was in summer playing croquet. My fam was big into this, rolled the lawn in the backyard and everything. Actually that was one of my jobs to earn extra money was to roll that d*mn heavy concrete thing - LOL


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

The boxers and shorts thing frequently just happens. I neither force this style nor care if my boxers hang beneath somewhat while wearing casual clothing. It just depends on what I'm wearing that day. Old habits die hard.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Plus, I dont remember in those days, the long inseam shorts even being available for sale.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

Croquet, now there's a great social game. Nothing like Sunday morning with a pitcher of milk punch and a competitive game.

In college I bought a set, and most all the guys in the chapter laughed. That is, until all the girls started coming around to play.


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

Lawn Bowling. Is it popular in the South? It seems a quintessential warm-weather game. I recall watching Saturday afternoon games in Greenwich, and right down the street from me in Newport Beach and Laguna Beach today are two popular lawn bowling clubs.


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## Smudger (Jun 11, 2005)

Gentlemen,

I must reply to one who commented that Kentucky is an ambivalent Southern State. The only places that are not Southern are Louisville and Northern Kentucky around Cincinati. Kentucky used to supply Vanderbilt with its second largest contingent after Tennessee. Louisville and Northern Kentucky were not Southern because the Union Army occupied them when hostilities broke out. Where I live in Western Kentucky is as Southern as any part of Mississippi or Alabama. Plus, the best of whiskies are distilled in the Bluegrass. Keeneland in the Summer is a real event.

Regards,
Bill


Mollydog


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Smudger_
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> I must reply to one who commented that Kentucky is an ambivalent Southern State. The only places that are not Southern are Louisville and Northern Kentucky around Cincinati. Kentucky used to supply Vanderbilt with its second largest contingent after Tennessee. Louisville and Northern Kentucky were not Southern because the Union Army occupied them when hostilities broke out. Where I live in Western Kentucky is as Southern as any part of Mississippi or Alabama. Plus, the best of whiskies are distilled in the Bluegrass. Keeneland in the Summer is a real event.


Hmmm, I missed the slight on my native state, but appreciate Smudger rising to the Commonwealth's defense. Without question, Kentucky _is_ a Southern state.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Rocker_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Er, and why is this not an apt comparison?


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## Wimsey (Jan 28, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Kentucky is definitely a southern state. I find that even Louisville is a southern city (the suburbs of Cincy not so much). But the south is very diverse, and different parts of it have different histories, and consequently slightly different cultures.

The "deep south" - GA, AL, TN, SC, NC, AR, MS, some of VA and maybe most of LA - were largely rural with a plantation and share-crop based economy. Maybe because of this, maybe because life was hard, or maybe for some unrelated reasons, these states had more of a "southern aristocratic" tradition, with the concept of the "southern gentleman" being most pronounced in these areas (although the idea existed in every southern state).

It's interesting - especially when compared with today - that the appalachian areas of these states, being then as now, the poorest (white) areas of the states, generally disliked the southern aristocracy and sided with the union in the civil war. Much of the fighting around this area - particularly around chattanooga and lookout mountain - was fought as part of the union's attempt to secure these friendly areas; this is also the reason W. VA broke off of VA.

New Orleans and southern LA was much more focused on commerce, trade, and business than the plantation south and consequently has a very different culture; the fact that it was French also makes it quite different. To a lesser degree, cities like Savannah and Charleston were also focused more on trade and thus were culturally different from the more inland areas.

Texas has always been different. First, it's vast, being about the size of the rest of the entire deep south put together. Second, it has a level of spanish culture underlying its texan culture. Third, it has different geography, which led to more ranching than large scale farming. Fourth, it was settled in large numbers by anglos more recently than the rest of the south, and partook more of a "self-made man" ethos and less of an aristocratic, traditional ethos. However, Texan ideas of honor and duty and valor and, well, fighting were fairly similar to the rest of the south.

Kentucky and Maryland (remember, MD was a southern state) were fairly similar to each other, in that there were a lot of small farmers, not an extensive plantation system (there was one, but both the size of the individual plantations and the overall scope of plantation farming was much smaller than in the deep south - this may have to do with cotton not being grown much in KY and MD). OH river trade was also extremely important to KY, with the L&N railroad and port facilities in Louisville being an alternative route (to New O.) for sending goods elsewhere. And of course there was a sort of genteel aristocracy based on horse breeding (and, really, there is nothing more aristocratic than that).

In 1860, Louisville was a large and important city, being 4 times the size if Nashville and much larger than cities such as Chicago, Detroit, or Memphis. Louisville was also larger than Charleston, Washinton DC, and Buffalo. Baltimore and New Orleans were the only southern cities that were larger than Louisville; at this time Baltimore was the second largest city in the US.

Although there was some sympathy for the south in Ky, there was never a great deal of support for secession (maybe 1/3 of the population). Presumably this is due to Ky having important economic ties to the north, not having an extensive plantation based economy, and, I suppose, the fact that Lincoln was born in Ky. and the first lady was from an important Ky family.

Another poster wrote that Ky. didn't secede because the union occupied Ky. I don't believe this is right - if I remember my Shelby Foote, the union didn't send any troops to Ky. because they didn't want to do anything to antagonize the population. In 1862, the confederacy invaded; they were eventually kicked out in the battle of Perryville. There was a somewhat abortive attempt of setting up a confederate capital of Ky, but this got little support and never amounted to much. Particularly as troops from Kentucky became very efficient at hunting down rebels - I suppose it's one thing to secede, and quite a different thing to have someone else invade your state and try to secede on your behalf.

I do agree that Kentucky today has probably moved closer to the south culturally than it was in 1860. The extremely widespread industrialization of the north largely missed Ky (and the rest of the south), its importance as a trading location faded as railroads became more important, and starting about 1880 it became primarily an agricultural state, demographically very similar to the rest of the south.


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## Smudger (Jun 11, 2005)

Gentlemen,

Excellenty history lesson Wimsey!!!Are you a history professor somewhere?
Bill


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by DownSouth_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm awfully sorry, but I don't know who this was aimed at (myself or the previous poster), or even, frankly, what it meant. Perhaps "DownSouth" could elucidate--in English, and without epiphets?


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

I'll admit to making the comment regarding Kentucky. Not that I have any real feelings or issues here, just that I remember people debating this topic in college (the same with Texas, which is what brought this subject to light). According to the line of logic casting Kentucky out with Ohio, one could almost say the same for modern Atlanta. So much has changed in so many ways, good and bad, that I find these arguments to be somewhat quaint.


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

> quotene could almost say the same for modern Atlanta. So much has changed in so many ways, good and bad, that I find these arguments to be somewhat quaint.


Hot-lanta definitely isn't the city it used to be. Like so many cities, it's become homogenized. There just isn't really much left of the Old South (other than the humidity). It's truly a pity...


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by I_Should_Be_Working_
> ...one could almost say the same for modern Atlanta. So much has changed in so many ways, good and bad, that I find these arguments to be somewhat quaint.


What I find quaint is the continued North vs. South dichotomy. I understand Southern opposition to the Yankee influx and I sympathize with it to a great degree (Deo Vindice). But, it is not the South herself that is changing--it is the entire country! Is it really wise of us to squabble over whose sartorial traditions are more 'Trad' ('tradlier'?), when at the same time the US is importing tens of millions of foreign settlers who don't even have a conception of, let alone loyalty to, American Trad clothing? Today we discuss seersucker, madras, and khakis. If we don't wise up, tomorrow we discuss kuffiyah, serape, and dashiki.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

*Deleted by Malinda.*

I won't reply to anything else on this thread, unless it's about clothes. But please note that it *is* possible to write something without using epiphets. Gentlemen do so all the time.


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

> quote:
> My post was intended for whomever equated the Confederacy with Nazi Germany and you, jstaylor, for agreeing with him.
> Does that elucidate it, in English, enough for you, jacka$$!!!???


Go back and read what I really wrote â€œsirâ€. I'm getting tired of people flying off the handle who seem to have difficulty reading English. What I wrote was that I wasn't sure that the Old South parties continued since there seems to be a percentage of the population (the "indoctrinated")who equate the Confederacy with Nazis. I DID NOT say that the two are equivalent or that I shared that opinion - go back and READ. I'm pretty sure my original post was clear. I hope that once your panties unravel, you'll be able to sound out the words. Feel free to move your lips while reading if it helps. By the way, your disgusting behavior just reinforced a lot of peoples' attitudes about Southerners, Jethro.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

*Deleted by Malinda*

Well, you didn't manage to elucidate it, nor avoid using epiphets, but such, alas, is life "Down South".


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by jstaylor_
> 
> DownSouth, I will use short sentences in this post. Then you might be able to understand it. You seem not to have understood much on this thread so far. I am sorry about that.
> 
> (Please let me know if I am going too fast for you.)


I hope to God that some big ole Southern boy kicks your scrawny Yankee arse.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Old Brompton_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not a Yankee. And given both my size and fitness level, and the fact that, in my experience, "big" means "fat" in the South, I have no concerns about your wish coming true!  (And now I *will* desist from replying!)


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## crazyquik (Jun 8, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Old Brompton_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Italy has vast regional difference, Bavaria is certainly 'tradlier' than northern Germany, and the culture of southern England is a lot different than the Highland Scots.

So the North-South dictotomy isn't really so unique.

---------------------

Beware of showroom sales-fever reasoning: i.e., "for $20 . . ." Once you're home, how little you paid is forgotten; how good you look in it is all that matters.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

That should be "you're".

(OK, I'll stop now! Fish? Barrels?)


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I'm not exactly sure what it is that compels some to be drawn to any discussion of the South and begin issuing nonsensical insults and ahistorical comparisons. There really was no cause for 'jstaylor' inserting his comments into a perfectly peaceable thread that had nothing to do with politics or history.

If you want to read something about being 'inimical to freedom' take a close look at the reality that was Lincoln. But I fear that would interfere with your cartoonish understanding of history.

Now, please, back to the thread before it ends up being locked.


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by jstaylor_
> 
> ...some people "Down South" have been taught--and are still being taught--that they won the Civil War. Not true!! The Confederacy LOST. Sorry to dissapoint you, old chap.


But can it not be argued that although the Confederates lost the war, much like the South African Boers, they won the peace?

After all, within 25 years of Appomatox they were busily instating Jim Crow legislation that endured for over 70 years.

The very Southern argument that "one drop of ***** blood makes a *****" has been wholeheartedly embraced by America. Anyone with the slightest discernible African ancestry is classified as "black," "African-American" or whatever the phrase du jour might be. Although repellent to modern sensibilities, a major anti-slavery argument was that many of the people being bought and sold were very largely white..."fair Saxon blood on the auction block." The South countered with the "one drop" argument, and it seems to have been accepted by all without debate. We do not differentiate between "black" and "colored," as many societies have. In America, they were synonyms.

And has the South not long been disproportionately influential in American politics, first through the "solid South" and congressional seniority and today with their dominance of the Republican Party (ironically enough)?


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what it is that compels some to be drawn to any discussion of the South and begin issuing nonsensical insults and ahistorical comparisons. There really was no cause for 'jstaylor' inserting his comments into a perfectly peaceable thread that had nothing to do with politics or history.
> 
> ...


I believe "DownSouth" started with the epithets and ad hominem attacks. Your assignment of blame is mis-directed.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> I'm not exactly sure what it is that compels some to be drawn to any discussion of the South and begin issuing nonsensical insults and ahistorical comparisons. There really was no cause for 'jstaylor' inserting his comments into a perfectly peaceable thread that had nothing to do with politics or history.
> 
> ...


Actually, my lighthearted question didn't *start* this discussion, and I asked it jokingly with no idea it would generate this flamewar. My responses to DownSouth arose because I have a deepseated objection to the use of epiphets in threads, and because he or she really didn't understand what the previous poster had written.

Also, for the record, I *don't* defend Lincoln, or anti-secessionists in general. (Unless the secession is to perpetuate something truly appalling.) That the CSA was inimicable to freedom does not preclude the Union being inimicable to it, also. It simply isn't the case that in an argument between A and B a criticism of A makes one a defender of B.

Back to clothes--please!--what does the expression "ticky-tack" refer to, above?


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by jstaylor_
> I'm not a Yankee. And given both my size and fitness level, and the fact that, in my experience, "big" means "fat" in the South, I have no concerns about your wish coming true!  (And now I *will* desist from replying!)


Please accept my apologies. My mistake. I wrongly attributed your alarming rudeness to Yankee origins. I see now that you're just rude, period.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

Apologies accepted! I *am* rude--but *only* intentionally! 

Now--"ticky-tack", anyone?


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## sunnisalafi (Feb 20, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Old Brompton_
> Today we discuss seersucker, madras, and khakis. If we don't wise up, tomorrow we discuss kuffiyah, serape, and dashiki.


I've been known to attend Eid prayer at the mosque with a Brooks BD, Bill's Khakis, grosgrain belt, and Bean mocs with a dishadasha over this, topped off with a Barbour........
I bet that makes your blood boil, doesn't it? 
LOL!!


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

Ticky-tack (aka ticky-tacky) refers to the rather plain, knee length pastel-colored dresses with a black ribbon at the neck that is the uniform of GPS (Girls Preparatory School) girls. The colors are indicative of the class system; on most days, girls are free to wear any color, but on class days they may only wear the color of their class.

FWIW, my mother and my grandmother both graduated from GPS. The girls I dated in the '70s wore the exact same uniforms! I looked for pictures online (www.gps.edu) but was unsuccessful.

This bit of info is a bit off-topic, but better than the flame-filled rhetoric littering the previous pages in this thread...


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

Thanks, jlmwrite! And I'm glad I gave you an excuse to look up GPS girls online!


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

Let me preface this by saying that I have no wish to get involved in the preceeding flamewar. If you disagree with me or I hurt your feelings, that's fine. Let's get back to discussing clothes.

As my father said, the South didn't lose, we just ran out of bullets...

...but I digress, I have never owned any symbol of the Confederate flag. Not because I am offended but out of good taste to avoid offending those who are offended by it. I don't frown on seeing it certain places. I find a lot of the people who are adamantly against the flag have rarely set foot in the South and therefore have no voice in the flag rhetoric. Many of them are the same people who, in an attempted retort to any argument by a Southerner, revert to insults based on the misconception that anyone from the south lives on a farm with hogs and is slow or simple-minded. For these reasons I choose to stay away from the Confederate flag controversy and hope that anyone with such a negative view of the south keeps it, ensuring we will never have to endure their presence here.

_Until a man is 25, he still believes, somewhere deep in his mind, that if the circumstances were right, he could be the baddest motherf***er in the world._

- Snowcrash, Neil Stephenson


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by sunnisalafi_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sunnisalafi,

My blood's not boiling, I'm laughing too hard. I was concerned that a rather nasty flame war was taking place in a thread that I started (as if I have any control) but your post is great!

I've not had the good fortune to go to a mosque yet, but I have worn my Brooks/Bills/Barbour to both Jewish and Budhist temples, and any number of Christian churches from Baptist to Catholic (both Roman and English).

A friend did bring back a kuffiyah for me when I was at school and I wore it until 9/11. I wasn't a political statement, and after 9/11 I didn't want it to become one.

Cheers


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

*Deleted by Malinda*


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Those of you from the southern states, is there anything that you see commonly in your home state, that you dont see when travelling, even to other southern states? SC travels to Georgia, etc.


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

> quote:Those of you from the southern states, is there anything that you see commonly in your home state, that you dont see when travelling, even to other southern states? SC travels to Georgia, etc.


How about the ubiquitous pitcher of sweet tea on every restaurant and diner table below the Mason-Dixon line? Anywhere else in the country, a request for sweet tea must be immediately restated as "sweetened iced tea" -- and then you get a glass of tepid Lipton tea, a spoon, and a packet of sugar!

There's always the "See Rock City" signs, Krystal hamburgers, and the knowledge that the UT logo refers to Tennessee instead of Texas, all of which are absent in other parts of the country.

But if you mean clothing... Nothing truly different other than one never sees "My blood runs deep orange" sweatshirts out here...


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jlmwrite_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sweet tea is a good example. Strong coffee is another. For years, before the mass coffee retailers helped standardize quality, coffee service taken while traveling typically entailed weak, poorly brewed coffee, and sometimes even instant.

The "Rocky City" and "Ruby Falls" barnside ads were truly a regional gem. The actual attractions were lacking, but who can forget those endless ads decorating every highway and interstate.


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## JSE (Oct 4, 2005)

Gentlemen,

Here is my take on the discussion. I agree with Harris and some of the other members that have pointed that "Southern Trad" dressers are not the strict adherents to rules about darts or even pleats that their northern counterparts may be. I would also agree that Polo is prevelant in the Southern Preppy/Trad look. However, from my experience at least, while many people may wear Ralph Lauren polo-style shirts (and to a lesser degree OCBDs), one rarely sees Polo for other parts of the outfit...trousers, blazers, accessories, etc.

Therefore, while Southern Trad may be more diluted than Northern/New England Trad, it makes up for it in the percentage of males adhering to the style. I think many yankees who have not been to the South do not understand that the Southern style that has been described in this thread is worn by a majority of the white, male population under the age of 30. It is not at all uncommon to enter any southern bar on a Friday or Saturday night and have 75% of the gentlemen dressed in polos, OCBDs, khakis, shotshell belts, and either loafers or Redwing boots. This has not been my experience in the North where it seems that the average 25 year-old spends weekend nights in dark jeans, black shoes, a striped shirt, and possibly a casual sportcoat.

I guess what I am trying to say is that while the North can, and should be, commended for maintaining the strict rules of New England trad...the men of Dixie must be acknowledged for the sheer number of people who adhere to the South's take on Trad dress.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by JSE_
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> ...


Well...hmmm...I see what you're saying, but I'm inclined to disagree just a tad bit--particularly with your statement that sheer number (quantity) has the potential to redeem style (quality). As someone who's gone to Foxfield in the past, I'm not sure I can abide another year of overly-shiny Range Rovers and Polo-RL labeled everything everywhere. It may be something, but I don't think it's trad as I learned the rules from my father and others. Let's call it something else. I guess the tried-and-true (if not abused) "Southern Preppy" works a-okay. Southern "preppies" tend to be a little more in-the-face about display of emblems that are supposed to signal the attainment of $.

Where I live (little over half an hour outside of NYC by train) and in other parts of the Northeast, there remains a small and perhaps decreasing (by the day?) number of young men who have been instructed to think, act, and dress a certain way. Tons of them go to Lawrenceville and Deerfield, which remain fairly traditional, but I hear that the current favorite (by far) is Avon Old Farms. I know one of this kind who's a third generation legacy at Princeton, where his two brothers also enrolled. Yes, there are still conservative, old-fogey Northeastern trads so dogmatic about the curriculum (that transcends mere dress) that they're best described as eccentric. Or reactionary. I'm now referring to the really, really old $ New Englanders that you'll never read or hear about or see. They wouldn't want you to. I dare say that places like Press and Andover Shop are, to be blunt, the only places they would bother to go because, quite simply, it's all they've come to know.

Anonymous in life, anonymous in death. Except for the prep school and college buildings named in their honor.

Cheers,
Harris


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

*Deleted by Malinda*


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Along this line: a few years ago I visited one of the Andover Shops. I asked one of the (long time) salesmen about Andover Shop clientele--the committed ones who return year after year and wouldn't bother with another men's shop. His response was telling: "The silent minority, funding most of New England's great institutions...and most people never hear of or about them." That's about right, it seems to me. We certainly won't see them at what passes of "high society gatherings" nowadays. Too tacky, too showy, and too antithetical to the calm, quiet, low-key WASPyness that's become familiar.

They've quietly disappeared into the background, blending in.

I dare say this is not the case "down South," where (it seems) that the more $ one has, the stronger the impulse to flaunt it. The dress code isn't so much about communicating "I'm aesthetically conservative" or "I'm modest" or "I'm intelligent and/or well educated." Rather, it seems to say "Look at me, I can afford to wear designer clothing" or "Check it out--I look like somebody who went to a private school."

Am I being too harsh?

Cheers,
Harris


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## JSE (Oct 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> Well...hmmm...I see what you're saying, but I'm inclined to disagree just a tad bit--particularly with your statement that sheer number (quantity) has the potential to redeem style (quality). As someone who's gone to Foxfield in the past, I'm not sure I can abide another year of overly-shiny Range Rovers and Polo-RL labeled everything everywhere. It may be something, but I don't think it's trad as I learned the rules from my father and others. Let's call it something else. I guess the tried-and-true (if not abused) "Southern Preppy" works a-okay. Southern "preppies" tend to be a little more in-the-face about display of emblems that are supposed to signal the attainment of $.
> 
> ...


I agree that perhaps much of what has been described in this thread is the more casual style of southern dress that has been influenced more by days spent in a duck blind and fly fishing than walking the campuses New England prep schools. Shotshell belts, croakies, roper boots, stand up shorts, etc.

The point I was trying to make, without passing judgment one way or the other, was that as far as casual dress is concerned it seems as though the Trad look is disappearing quite quickly throughout much of the northeast. On the other hand, this outdoors-influenced look described throughout this thread doesn't seem to show any sign of fading away in the south. I haven't been able to figure out why somewhat similar styles have fared so differently in the two regions.

When I have been up in the north to visit friends who have graduated from some of the same prep schools you reference in your reply, the look is alive and well; however, the look is definitely not what the average northeasterner is wearing on a typical weekend. In the south, on the other hand, the manner of dress detailed in this thread is worn not only by graduates of St. Christopher's, Porter-Gaud, etc., but by the majority of the male population of a certain age. Perhaps I am the only one, but I do find this interesting.

As far as Carolina Cup and Foxfield are concerned, it has been my experience attending each of these events that the preppiness is intentionally "turned up" for the occasion. While this doesn't seem to explain the dominance of Polo-RL (which I don't entirely agree with), it may explain some of your other observations.

Thanks again for your contributions to the board, I truly enjoy reading your posts.

-JSE


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## JSE (Oct 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Harris_
> 
> I dare say this is not the case "down South," where (it seems) that the more $ one has, the stronger the impulse to flaunt it. The dress code isn't so much about communicating "I'm aesthetically conservative" or "I'm modest" or "I'm intelligent and/or well educated." Rather, it seems to say "Look at me, I can afford to wear designer clothing" or "Check it out--I look like somebody who went to a private school."
> 
> ...


I think this pretty commonplace throughout the country, if not the world. Those who aren't as financially secure try to emulate the dress and customs of those who are better off...often with poor results. I am sure this occurs in both the north and south. I wonder if many of the southerners you have encountered flaunting their designer label clothing fall into this category, rather than being the southern equivalent of the Andover Shop customers you described in your post?


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

Harris,

Regarding "being too Harsh", remember, Southerners weren't Puritans. There was no tradition of dressing down or wearing subdued dull outfits. That said, I find crassness has grown with time.


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## daltx (Jan 19, 2006)

Harris,

I am a southerner and have learned much about Trad from reading your posts. Until this forum, I did not no sack suits existed, now I prefer them. I have made orders with Press, Mercer, Alden, and others based on your recommendations and have not been disappointed yet. That being said, I must come to the defense of southerners on one issue.

The wearing of Polo brand polo shirts is not associated with status or trying to look rich in the south. Sure there may be some people who do that, but for the most part, those people can be seen wearing gucci, or abercrombie and fitch. Polo is not trendy enough for those people. If you were to talk to the average southern college student who fits the description that has been discussed in this thread, you would see that he cares very little about the money his family has. I wear both Polo and Vineyard Vines polo shirts, not because they say anything about me, but because sometimes I think a logo adds something to a shirt(and in the case of VV, makes it different than all the other people here).

I also went to school with many people from Exeter, Andover, Deerfield, etc. and I found the polo brand to be as prevalent among them as it is among my Southern friends. Just my observations. 

On a side note, since I have tried the Trad places and brands I listed above, what should be next on my list?


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## Sweetness (Aug 25, 2005)

I think AAAC really dislikes Polo (except RLPL), and it's especially evident in this thread about their OCBD and polo shirts. I've consistently heard that Polo and Lacoste are the two hands-down favorites for polo shirts in terms of quality. In addition, about the OCBD's, I have a few and they are unbelievably comfortable. Sure, they may not last as long as Mercer (I would have never heard of this company if it was not for this site) or Brooks Brothers (which are $65). Polo simply has a stronger name, in terms of it being available in more places. However, Polo OCBD's are almost consistently on sale for about $25 cheaper than BB and for a college student, that's thirty-six beers! Having items last for a long time is not the concern of many college students, because most of the clothes that we have will get so disgusting or dirty, that we will need entirely new wardrobes for the business world.


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## fishertw (Jan 27, 2006)

Gentlemen:
And I use that term generously in some cases-- being from North Carolina which has been described as a "vale of humility between two mountains of pomposity", I have been "trad" since the 1950's. I agree with many of the statements and observations of Harris. I also believe that many of us do not take part in the flaming of others, as some seem to do who still hold to the "old south" thinking. We merely have been dressing in traditional ways since childhood years, and believe that being low key in our approach to dressing and to accomodating a variety of backgrounds and beliefs is mannerly. Can this thread not, please, get back to clothing and dressing rather than defending honor? Most of us are AMERICANS and but we should also welcome our cousins from across the pond. Lets get on with it. I believe that the original question was related to clothing and Southern Dress.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Louis M_
> ... Having items last for a long time is not the concern of many college students, because most of the clothes that we have will get so disgusting or dirty, that we will need entirely new wardrobes for the business world.


And here I think is one crux for a distinction between preppy and trad. People I know who are trad are concerned how long their clothes last. The idea of needing an entire new wardrobe for business did not enter my mind. I knew I could wear the most of the same shirts, ties, outer wear as I did when I was at school. Sure I got a new suit or two as part of my graduation presents, but not an entire new wardrobe. Do not get the wrong impression, I was in a frat and could party with the best. I think the attitude was different - that's all. Please note, I do not mean to imply better - only different. Harris - does this make sense?
Cheers


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

fishertw,
Spoken like a gentleman (which I'm sure you are). I look forward to more of your posts.
Cheers


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

As mentioned above, Southerners aren't Yankees nor do they have a desire to be. There certainly are similarities between NE 'Trad' and a common Southern prep look, but I doubt few if any are interested in using Yankee attire as a measuring stick on what might be proper. Most are able to go entire days at a time without considering what Yankees might be wearing.


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

*Deleted by Malinda. See previous comments.*

I didn't know what a dishadasha was, so I looked it up. They look ferociously comfortable! Are they?

In fairness to Old Brompton, he might just find the apparent incongruity of Barbour, dishadasha, et al. amusing, with no racist overtones intended. At least, I'd like to think he was being lighthearted here, just as I like to think he was in his comments to me, above.


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

*Deleted by Malinda. See previous comments.*


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## mgw (Jul 29, 2005)

Along this line: a few years ago I visited one of the Andover Shops. I asked one of the (long time) salesmen about Andover Shop clientele--the committed ones who return year after year and wouldn't bother with another men's shop. His response was telling: "The silent minority, funding most of New England's great institutions...and most people never hear of or about them." That's about right, it seems to me. We certainly won't see them at what passes of "high society gatherings" nowadays. Too tacky, too showy, and too antithetical to the calm, quiet, low-key WASPyness that's become familiar.

They've quietly disappeared into the background, blending in.

I dare say this is not the case "down South," where (it seems) that the more $ one has, the stronger the impulse to flaunt it. The dress code isn't so much about communicating "I'm aesthetically conservative" or "I'm modest" or "I'm intelligent and/or well educated." Rather, it seems to say "Look at me, I can afford to wear designer clothing" or "Check it out--I look like somebody who went to a private school."

Am I being too harsh?

Cheers,
Harris
[/quote]

Harris,

Am I correct that you attended college in the South? I recall that Eljo's comes higly recommended, so I think Virginia must have been the place. Anyway, I was wondering if you find that there has been a sartorial transition among your classmates from trad clothing to logo-concious attire? There must be some Southerners who dress in a similar manner as some of the Andover Shop clientele referenced previously. Or, at least, share your viewpoints on clothing.


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## Wimsey (Jan 28, 2006)

I think that, up to a point, it's hard to disagree with Harris's comments. There is, for example, a fairly common southern "frat boy" look of khakis, OCBD shirt with polo logo, tie, and blue blazer. This is worn by a lot of people who were never in frats.

But I don't think it's *good* look, or a look with any tradition, or a look much worth emulating. It does beat running pants, tee-shirt with message, and flip flops - but that's not a high standard.

I do disagree that it has to do with money, though - the Polo pony is part of the uniform, not an way of displaying that you have enough cash to buy a shirt with a horse on it.


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by mgw_
> 
> Along this line: a few years ago I visited one of the Andover Shops. I asked one of the (long time) salesmen about Andover Shop clientele--the committed ones who return year after year and wouldn't bother with another men's shop. His response was telling: "The silent minority, funding most of New England's great institutions...and most people never hear of or about them." That's about right, it seems to me. We certainly won't see them at what passes of "high society gatherings" nowadays. Too tacky, too showy, and too antithetical to the calm, quiet, low-key WASPyness that's become familiar.
> 
> ...


Harris,

Am I correct that you attended college in the South? I recall that Eljo's comes higly recommended, so I think Virginia must have been the place. Anyway, I was wondering if you find that there has been a sartorial transition among your classmates from trad clothing to logo-concious attire? There must be some Southerners who dress in a similar manner as some of the Andover Shop clientele referenced previously. Or, at least, share your viewpoints on clothing.
[/quote]

I remember both--the guys who shopped at Eljo's and similar haberdasheries because that's where their father shopped (and took them when it was time to buy clothes, especially that first suit), and the guys who didn't really care about quality clothing but simply wanted to "fit in." The latter group found it easy to buy Polo-RL (or whatever) at whatever store at the local mall. -Harris


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## Old Brompton (Jan 15, 2006)

*OLD BROMPTON:

YOU HAVE GONE WAY OVER THE LINE HERE. ALLOW ME TO REMIND YOU OF ASK ANDY RULE#2, WHICH READS IN PART:




quote:Ask Andy is a politically and culturally ecumenical website, and we all benefit from the contributions of members from around the world. We want people from all nations and backgrounds and political persuasions to feel welcome to share their interest in clothing here.

Click to expand...

YOUR ACCOUNT IS NOW LOCKED AND WILL BE UNLOCKED WHEN YOU E-MAIL ME A SUITABLE APOLOGY WHICH WILL BE POSTED HERE.

MALINDA*


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Don't feed the troll, sunnisalafi. 

Brompton, you've generally been well behaved from what I've seen, but this sort of thing is really going over the line. Sunnisalafi has been nothing but a constructive member of the board, which is more than can be said for you right now. Cool it.


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

I would caution anyone against comparing what goes on at the University of Virginia to what goes on in the whole of the South. As my friend who is a UVa grad says, Virginia breeds ego. I have found friends who attend UVa to fit into what Harris claims in terms of attempting to flaunt wealth or privelage through clothing. I have not noticed this many other places in the South and I would question how this is so different than the rest of the country. If you can afford nice clothes, you wear them, I don't think it's showing off so long as you don't walk around with Burberry check and Gucci logo emblazened loudly upon your being. I think that it is not just Southerners who have slipped toward logocentric fashion, but rather it is a national trend fueled by capitalism, corporate branding, and ultimately another is just another fad.

I can't help but think that some of these jabs and bashing of Southern style are bred from insecurities over the fact that Northern Ivy Leaguers aren't the only people smartly dressed and that there is an entirely evolved offset of Trad going on with little to do with them.

_Until a man is 25, he still believes, somewhere deep in his mind, that if the circumstances were right, he could be the baddest motherf***er in the world._

- Snowcrash, Neil Stephenson


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

While New Englanders would opt for Press, Brooks, Andover or Bean, the SOuthern Trad would possibly accept more darts, pleats, and (as told by Harris in an older thread) don a Rolex, tie bars, collar pins and use of an iron would not be foreign to them? Seems right?


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by shuman_
> 
> While New Englanders would opt for Press, Brooks, Andover or Bean, the SOuthern Trad would possibly accept more darts, pleats, and (as told by Harris in an older thread) don a Rolex, tie bars, collar pins and use of an iron would not be foreign to them? Seems right?


I do think north and south can agree on khakis/ocbd/grosgrain/boxers/and loafers. Now other details....


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## malinda (Aug 25, 2002)

As for the rest of you, thank you for not excessively feeding the troll. Let's keep it that way.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any other details I didnt mention?


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## JSE (Oct 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by shuman_
> 
> While New Englanders would opt for Press, Brooks, Andover or Bean, the SOuthern Trad would possibly accept more darts, pleats, and (as told by Harris in an older thread) don a Rolex, tie bars, collar pins and use of an iron would not be foreign to them? Seems right?


Based on my experience:

Darts? Occasionally.
Pleats? Fairly frequent.
Rolex? If it's what happened to be passed down to you. Not often.
Tie bars? No.
Collar pins? On a button down?
Iron? Seems to become more common as a person's age increases.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by shuman_
> 
> While New Englanders would opt for Press, Brooks, Andover or Bean, the SOuthern Trad would possibly accept more darts, pleats, and (as told by Harris in an older thread) don a Rolex, tie bars, collar pins and use of an iron would not be foreign to them? Seems right?


I don't see too many tie bars and collar pins, but everything would be clean and pressed (except maybe for college students).

Rolex is well liked around here, and let me explain. Like the scenario with RL/Polo, people need to remember most areas simply do not have access to the diversity of brands as one might find in NY, LA, SF, Chicago, etc. Anything beyond major national brands must be found elsewhere.

Here's an example. Not to be inciteful here given some other threads, but suppose you love Italian tailored suits and crave hand sewn sleeved shirts, where would you go? Do you think there is any store in MS, AL, SC, AR, or other small state who might carry Kiton, Brioni, or Borrelli? For that matter most of the places don't even have a Brooks Brothers. Were it not for New Orleans based stores, Louisiana would be no better.

The lack of selection also may be coupled with a tendency to support local merchants. A doctor, attorney, cpa, or other professional may find it necessary to buy local. Rolex can be found in these areas, and there is a perception the watch will last forever. Those with strong families are also fond of passing significant items down. For many reasons the Rolex attraction is strong and works.

And regarding the pleats and darts, yes to both. A true sack suit is fairly difficult to find these days. Even people on these boards who know the difference bemoan their dearth - BB doesn't even offer many styles in the sack. Anything but a diehard accepted darts long ago.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by I_Should_Be_Working_
> 
> ...Like the scenario with RL/Polo, people need to remember most areas simply do not have access to the diversity of brands as one might find in NY, LA, SF, Chicago, etc. Anything beyond major national brands must be found elsewhere.
> 
> Here's an example. Not to be inciteful here given some other threads, but suppose you love Italian tailored suits and crave hand sewn sleeved shirts, where would you go? Do you think there is any store in MS, AL, SC, AR, or other small state who might carry Kiton, Brioni, or Borrelli? ...


I generally agree with what you say, but if you're ever in Birmingham let me know and I can take you to the shops with Kiton, Brioni and Borrelli. They are here. But we also have a fine trad shop in Harrison's Ltd with access to Samuelsohn sacks, Norman Hilton, etc.


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to hear. It does make life somewhat easier when you can run down the street rather than shipping back and forth.


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## Drinking and Drafting (Jun 23, 2005)

I_Should_Be_Working
Charleston, SC has several shops that carry those fine brands and is also home to the heralded Ben Silver. Outside of Charleston, probably not in SC, save for maybe Columbia for the politicians. I know Grainger-Owings carries many fine products.

_Until a man is 25, he still believes, somewhere deep in his mind, that if the circumstances were right, he could be the baddest motherf***er in the world._

- Snowcrash, Neil Stephenson


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by I_Should_Be_Working_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i agree totally. This is somewhat the same problem in the midwest, unless someone undertakes the trip to Chicago. The trad way of dressing is not embraced as often here, as it is in, say, SC or Georgia, but this is how it is done when you do see it.


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## captainjz16 (Nov 20, 2005)

As a 23 year old law student born and raised in the south, attended UF and am now in Tx, i believe i adhear to the souther style rules.
I belive the RL polos have been played out for years...
its always brooks brother, Lacoste, or now, my new favorite VV.
We wear seersucker, madras, and every color shorts/pants we can find
belts/sandals are leather and grossgrain w/embrodered fish/logos on them
I personally wear flat front khakis from either jcrew or VV
I love VV ties...bow ties a must
In the winter, we wear a 2 button camel hair jacket or a north face denali will work with anything
If i have to put on shoes, its sperrys for causal and i prefer wingtips w/my suits
Shirts are always tucked in no matter if ur wearing shorts or pants
long sleeve shirts w/shorts are fine
must always have your costa del mar sunglasses w/croakies from your favorite store or tackle shop
you must like golf, fishing and anything else outdoors
caps are a staple too w/your school logo, golf or country club or tackle shop
1 more thing...country music and Jimmy Buffett are a must

just a few things i have learned to love about my southern culture


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## Duane Gran (Jan 14, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Drinking and Drafting_
> 
> I would caution anyone against comparing what goes on at the University of Virginia to what goes on in the whole of the South. As my friend who is a UVa grad says, Virginia breeds ego. I have found friends who attend UVa to fit into what Harris claims in terms of attempting to flaunt wealth or privelage through clothing.


I spend a fair amount of time around UVa and generally I find that the well-to-do in the South keep their fortune discrete, excepting a few Southern coastal areas. My guess is that it isn't very gentlemanly to make a show of one's wealth.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Duane Gran_
> I spend a fair amount of time around UVa and generally I find that the well-to-do in the South keep their fortune discrete, excepting a few Southern coastal areas. My guess is that it isn't very gentlemanly to make a show of one's wealth.


So is there a difference between Southern Preppy and Southern Trad, the second being more reserved and understated?
Cheers


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## captainjz16 (Nov 20, 2005)

Must have a good watch too. that goes for anyone


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by captainjz16_
> 
> As a 23 year old law student born and raised in the south, attended UF and am now in Tx, i believe i adhear to the souther style rules.
> I belive the RL polos have been played out for years...
> ...


Thanks for the great post! Very informative.


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Duane Gran_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would agree that this concept is correct. The truly wealthy are very discreet about it and, for the most part, will act most like they are just "one of the crowd". 
It is those that go overboard to impress others that they are "rich" that are more than likely the people who don't have "a pot to p!$$ in", as they say.


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## Prepdad (Mar 10, 2005)

Interesting thread... hot,too, apparently.

Southern coastal fellow here, private schools, etc.

Agree with almost all the posts about the look. I would have to add that there's a certain casualness about dress in general, too, among the old families here. It's not unusual to see mud on the shoes, a tie askew, hair uncombed and an incongruent piece of apparel coupled with the best in trad/preppy attire. As there's an emphasis on outdoor life here, it's not unusual to find some sort of hunting or fishing attire paired with finer clothing, if only by accident. One of my nephews arrived home from boarding school the other day for a wedding and had only topsiders to wear it was discovered at the last minute. Off he went, anyway. Makes for interesting cocktail chatter. Everyone knows they know better.

And there, perhaps, is one of the explanations - in the south there is a general feeling that people know each other well. People tend to hang around for generations. Dress is of less interest than background. Then there are those of us who are clothes-concious anyway...


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## POLOGOLF (May 10, 2005)

As a 34-year-old professional born and raised in the south, attended Tennessee. I know I adhere to the southern style rules.
The RL poloâ€™s in solid colors are a staple in any southern manâ€™s wardrobe. I have also mixed in a few Brooks Brothers and Vineyard Vines.

During the workweek it is business attire: navy and gray suits, sports coats and slacks, non-iron shirts and ties from Brooks Brothers. Shoes are black, brown, and burgundy cap toes.

After work and weekend wear is OCBD shirt preferably RL or a RL polo, Flat front pants (used to be Duck Head but the quality is so poor now they are not worth the money) Billâ€™s or RL. Shoes are loafers with no socks (year round) or boots. Belt has some type of fishing or hunting or golf motif.

I wear seersucker or linen pants with white bucks in the summer. 

In the winter I just throw on a barn coat or lightweight parka

A ball cap and some bourbon are also always close by

Also a club membership is a must in the south. That is where all business gets done whether it is golf or hunting or fishing

southern traditional itâ€™s the best Yâ€™all


"May we always get what we want, may we always getwhat we need. Just so we don't get what we deserve." -James Spader and John Cusack in "True Colors"


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## Thomas (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by captainjz16_
> 
> As a 23 year old law student born and raised in the south, attended UF and am now in Tx, i believe i adhear to the souther style rules.
> I belive the RL polos have been played out for years...
> ...


You hit it right on the button. I'm a 20 year old college student from NC and what you described is practically uniform on the coastal area of the state such as Beaufort and the Outer Banks. T-shirts depicting your local marina or the boat you go deep-sea fishing on are also acceptable.


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

And I'd add one more thing about the south...There's a higher percentage of craaaaazzzy people in the south. Especially from money. My mother's side of the family included. And that's what I love about it. Not PC. Usually not very sober. But honest. And loyal to a fault. 

One of my favorite writers, Wm Faulkner, was asked by Louis B. Mayer at a cocktail party, "I understand you don't like Jews very much?" My hero replied, "You are correct, sir. And I don't like Christians very much either."


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## Thomas (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> One of my favorite writers, Wm Faulkner, was asked by Louis B. Mayer at a cocktail party, "I understand you don't like Jews very much?" My hero replied, "You are correct, sir. And I don't like Christians very much either."


It's interesting you would write that because I am currently writing a paper dealing with the portrayal of the church in Faulkner's That Evening Sun. Would you know a credible source where I can cite that quote from?


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> And I'd add one more thing about the south...There's a higher percentage of craaaaazzzy people in the south....


_"Whenever Iâ€™m asked why Southern writers particularly have a penchant for writing about freaks, I say it is because we are still able to recognize one." --Flannery Oâ€™Connor_


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## malinda (Aug 25, 2002)

Having spent two hours deleting vitriol and inappropriate behavior from this thread, my patience is severely taxed; my tolerance gone.

*CAUTION.* If this thread veers again, it will be locked without further warning.

Malinda


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## tweedchap (Sep 13, 2005)

My sincere apologies to all--*especially* Malinda--for my inappropriate comments of yesterday. Stereotypes are always unpleasant things, and I shouldn't have resorted to them in responding to DownSouth--to whom I also apologise unreservedly.

Now--why the dearth of Panama hats in the Deep South? I lived in Louisiana for four years, and only saw *one*. But surely they'd be appropriate?


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## DownSouth (Jun 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by jstaylor_
> 
> My sincere apologies to all--*especially* Malinda--for my inappropriate comments of yesterday. Stereotypes are always unpleasant things, and I shouldn't have resorted to them in responding to DownSouth--to whom I also apologise unreservedly.
> 
> Now--why the dearth of Panama hats in the Deep South? I lived in Louisiana for four years, and only saw *one*. But surely they'd be appropriate?


No apology to me necessary, jstaylor. 
My apologies to you, as well, and to any and all who might have been exposed to my fanning the flame. 
In retrospect, I should have offered up an apology first as I think I may have misunderstood a post and initiated things with an inappropriate reply. Sorry all.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Maybe this is bordering on preppy, not necessarily Trad, but, do those of you down south notice liberal uses of color, such as those seen in NE occasionally?


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## captainjz16 (Nov 20, 2005)

i think between pants/shorts and polos, i must have every color imaginable. From lime green, pink, red, yellow pants/shorts to brown polos. You also want to wear your camo hat...not amry camo, but either realtree or advantage camo.


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## Prepdad (Mar 10, 2005)

Liberal use of color? Maybe. Pink has been particularly popular of late. Pale yellows, too. Lime green came back big about 2 years ago. Bright colors to reflect the heat, perhaps.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by captainjz16_
> You also want to wear your camo hat...not amry camo, but either realtree or advantage camo.


Can anything "camo" really be considered preppy or trad?
Cheers


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## Harris (Jan 30, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by mpcsb_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sure. Waterfowl Trad.


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## captainjz16 (Nov 20, 2005)

young men across the south at southern universities wear the camo cap.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

I guess so, but it almost seems borderline Redneckish. Hunting Camo?


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## I_Should_Be_Working (Jun 23, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by shuman_
> 
> I guess so, but it almost seems borderline Redneckish. Hunting Camo?


Here is what I have seen over many years. People grow up and develop ways in keeping with their immediate family, friends, and area. When they go off to school, there is this sudden mass homogenization effect whereby people assimilate to some accepted fashion norm.

One style in particular is the whole "outdoors look". I have seen kids arrive at school looking like hip-hop rejects or Mr Cool suddenly turn into Good-ole-boy types, replete with Red Man, country music, redwings, and ocbds. In southern colleges, "outdoorsman" plays off better with the co-eds than "Club Guy". A few years later the effect begins to wear off, but many traits remain. And certainly no one went back to their goofy high school look.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Something tells me, if this thread were on the Trad Forum, it wouldnt have gone the direction that it did.


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## southernstunna (Mar 14, 2007)

haha. I just stumbled across this thread and it's been a very interesting read. Having lived in Texas for the past 18 years (born in California. I hate my parents haha) and going to school at Ole Miss I see these southern fashions all the time.

First of all, I must say that Ralph Lauren absolutely rules the South. During pledgeship, we were only allowed to wear shirts with the polo horse on them. "The pledge pin goes two thumbs up and two thumbs over from the horse" haha.

Nobody has really heard of "preppy" here. Dressing in seersucker, short shorts, and polos is known as "fratty".

Short shorts are key. Most guys I know rarely wear over a 7 inch inseam in the shorts. I haven't seen alot of boxers sticking out of the bottoms of shorts though (excluding my own. I'm notorious for having my mother hem my shorts to 4 or 4.5 inch inseams).

Croakies are key. The only type of sunglasses that are really acceptable are Costas and Ray Bans.

Drinking is key. Cheap beer and expensive bourbon dominate the scene among males. Natural Light and Wild Turkey Bourbon are personal favorites.

Fraternity life is an absolute essential here. Rush week is insane (especially at a school like Ole Miss). I remember seeing countless girls crying after not getting the bid they wanted. Interestingly enough, Ole Miss holds rush exactly one week after the full tuition refund deadline. The reasoning behind this is that many girls would drop out of school after not getting a bid to their sorority of choice.

Leaving my personal opinions out of the matter, I must say that racism is still very strong down here. Just last semester the first ***** was given a bid to Sigma Chi Fraternity (a very prominent one on campus) and it caused a large uprising. Many alumni stopped giving money and it has caused a considerable amount of problems.

Very interesting thread though. I must say I cannot wait for football season when the best part of southern life will begin with tailgating every fall Saturday afternoon.


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## JordanW (Jan 8, 2007)

southernstunna said:


> haha. I just stumbled across this thread and it's been a very interesting read. Having lived in Texas for the past 18 years (born in California. I hate my parents haha) and going to school at Ole Miss I see these southern fashions all the time.
> 
> First of all, I must say that Ralph Lauren absolutely rules the South. During pledgeship, we were only allowed to wear shirts with the polo horse on them. "The pledge pin goes two thumbs up and two thumbs over from the horse" haha.
> 
> ...


Coming from another SEC school and living in the same town now afterwards, all of what you said is right on around here SStunna.

Lots of folks around here are getting away from RL. It's become quite popular with the ******** one county over and God forbid we look like we associate with them, right? :icon_smile_wink: I've never been a big fan of the pony anyway. I tend to stick with Lacoste and Brooks OCBD's. For polos it's VV, Lacoste and a few J. Crew pointer polos. I keep my shorts no longer that 5" (J Crew has them on sale for $29 right now). When winter comes around I'm very trad in my dress. Lots of tweed, 1 3/4" cuffs and my Bean buckled pull on duck boots are truly worn almost everyday with the occasional substitution of my Russell Moccasin double bottom Zephyrs.

Stunna I suggest you make the trip to Athens for the football game this year. You would love it.


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

southernstunna said:


> First of all, I must say that Ralph Lauren absolutely rules the South. During pledgeship, we were only allowed to wear shirts with the polo horse on them. "The pledge pin goes two thumbs up and two thumbs over from the horse" haha.


WOW.

I can understand it if it's meant to be irony/a light form of hazing.

but if people really treat Ralph Lauren so religiouslyh.....................

then I guess "understatement" isn't part of southern trad.


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## southernstunna (Mar 14, 2007)

JordanW said:


> Coming from another SEC school and living in the same town now afterwards, all of what you said is right on around here SStunna.
> 
> Lots of folks around here are getting away from RL. It's become quite popular with the ******** one county over and God forbid we look like we associate with them, right? :icon_smile_wink: I've never been a big fan of the pony anyway. I tend to stick with Lacoste and Brooks OCBD's. For polos it's VV, Lacoste and a few J. Crew pointer polos. I keep my shorts no longer that 5" (J Crew has them on sale for $29 right now). When winter comes around I'm very trad in my dress. Lots of tweed, 1 3/4" cuffs and my Bean buckled pull on duck boots are truly worn almost everyday with the occasional substitution of my Russell Moccasin double bottom Zephyrs.
> 
> Stunna I suggest you make the trip to Athens for the football game this year. You would love it.


I was hoping to go this year, but we play y'all the same weekend as rush and it's like a 500 dollar fine if you skip it. Hopefully I'll make it out next year though; I've heard Samford Stadium is a great place to see a game.


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