# A young man's Trad.



## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

I have noticed a recent influx of younger guys to this forum so dedicated to old man's clothing, so I though I should start a discussion thread for younger trads, to see how they actually dress, as well as address the budget concerns that come with being a clothes lover on a tight budget. I myself am a young guy (as my moniker would imply) and I'm just about to get my BA. Throughout college I have learned to build a trad wardrobe that works very well; both affordable and handsome. More importantly, I can wear it at my extremely un-trad university and not stick out in any egregious way. For that may be the greatest challenge of the young trad; to look his age without looking in costume. I find that interpreting trad to literally can make one look ridiculous. Indeed, I recall a young Japanese student at my university who used to wear a tweed jacket, saddle shoes, khakis and a pipe. He looked very trad, and his clothes fit and looked very nice. But he was doing himself no favors by it; he only succeeded in looking unapproachable. Eccentricity is good in small doses, but it is a shame to alienate such a great portion of classmates (especially girls) by your dress alone? Would he not have had more chance to make friends if he just tones it down a bit? Is there not an ideal balance between tad and modernity? 
So for this thread I would really like to hear from all the younger trads, about how they make their wardrobe work for them, and how they incorporate trad without drawing undue negative attention. I would also be very grateful (as would everyone else, I'm sure) If some of the slightly older trads would check in and give advice to us youngsters.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

This will be an interesting discussion, doubtless. If you don't mind I'll toss in a few suggestions to help it (such a sprawling array of topics you've touched on) along. Especially for other guys like me who are still learning. The grab bag of generalizations usually leaves out the following:

-- Pics are so useful to illustrate what one means. When it doubt, use them
-- Style depends a lot on context/occasion, which should always be taken into account
-- Different individuals can get away with different looks.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

I tend to go by the guiding principle that you can wear whatever you please, so long as you pull it off with confidence. Of course, this is tempered by not looking completely out of place (a tie in class, unless you have an interview that day, would throw off my profs, as much as I may wish it not to be the case). That said, I mostly stick to the basic OCBDs, khakis, sometimes jeans, topsiders and loafers. Throwing something GTH in there is quite easy at school. 

How to work in a summer jacket or a tie is the most difficult, in my opinion. I've not really done it, particularly since I no longer have the excuse of going to work after class. I have a feeling it's nearly impossible to do unless you're in the deep south, but perhaps I am wrong.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

This thread is relevant to my interests.

What you're talking about is a look that I've been working on for awhile; a way to take trad elements and make them work in a modern way. I've settled on one factor being the key:

Fit.

And this is the one place where I have to diverge, significantly, from what most on this forum would characterize as "trad." As a young guy and as a very slender guy, tent-like shirts and boxy cut suits do not work for me. I won't be purchasing any shirts from Mercer anytime soon and I won't be purchasing any suits from J. Press either. This is not to disrespect the pedigree of either, but they are not making clothes for guys my size.

So the way I (hopefully) make "trad" work for me is by incorporating elements of "trad" -- an oxford shirt, corduroy pants, a pair of brown wingtips -- in a trimmer, more modern silhouette. Ideally, it's the right bit of old and the right bit of new mixed together.

Here is how that's turning out:



Epaulet Red Club Collar Oxford
Vintage Wembley tie
J. Crew Navy Cords
Vintage Stetson Wingtips
1976 Fiat 124 Spider

(tie only looks long because I'm not standing up fully straight)


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

^ I do agree that fit is the hardest thing, and the area most likely to leave the 'trad' path. I have, fortunately, found that more shirts are fitting since I started hitting the gym more often. J Press OCBDs now seem to be the gold standard for fit. Finding 31x34 chinos is still hell, though. 

And I think you pulled it off well! Does the fiat actually start? Each time you turn the key? That would be more of a feat than any clothing accomplishment!


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## Cajunking (Apr 30, 2010)

I think I've written a small book here...

I guess it's primarily a series of circumstances that have formed my wardrobe -- in high school a blazer, some ties, and a few oxfords of some sort were a necessity due to a dress code and a weekly chapel service day. My bow ties are almost entirely handed down by my father and my late grandfather, and so without spending anything I've accrued a considerable collection.

I think an important thing to remember in forming a wardrobe (I began reforming mine almost entirely entering college because most of my shirts and pants had seen considerable wear or did not fit) is that a small variety of a fair number of things equals a great overall variety. I have maybe four pairs of pants that I wear regularly, but with my three sweaters, seven oxfords, and three sportscoats I can already create a fair number of different outfits by matching distinct things with each other. I definitely think that brown, khaki, and navy is the direction to go since they can pair with any number of different things. If you take out the brown tones and try to go to blacks and greys then suddenly you are limiting yourself far more.

In terms of not seeming "costumey" there are a few things to consider: first, your context. I attend a university where roughly half of the students dress in coat and tie, so that is expected. On any given day you will also see probably some twenty students sporting bow ties, so that too is not out of the ordinary. Also, in the heat, students wear shorts with their coats and ties, so because of the context this is entirely okay. When not at college I am from New Orleans, where going out on any summer day one might see quite a few seersucker suits, so seersucker does not appear costumey.

Secondly, including a more modern piece will definitely make an outfit seem less like a costume. I'll point to a few instances of this in the image I've attached below.

Lastly, like I believe was stated above, confidence is essential, but so is _nonchalance_. Nonchalance comes simply with the ritual of dressing -- I have had to wear a blazer regularly since I was in eighth grade, so when dressed around my peers who attended different schools who are also wearing (for the first time, maybe a dance or something) blazers, it's readily apparent that I was more comfortable while they all were stiffly holding their shoulders in what they considered to be "dressing up." The mindset is very important. Likewise, if you act comfortable and amiable in any clothing then others, even if turned off initially, will quickly warm up to you regardless of your dress.

The background of the image I've attached shows me in shorts -- while costumey out of context, it works in my situation. In the image of me in a seersucker, I was attending an event which I knew would have others in similar suits, so I felt entirely okay arriving in a seersucker suit.

In terms of a more modern component in an outfit, you can notice a few: In one image I have a gray pullover that certainly is not "trad." However, because of that pullover I immediately am not some person about to perform in a play set in the 50's or whatever. It's hard to see, but in the ones where I have a peacoat on I have some slim corduroy pants on. These are pretty far from trad, but were relatively cheap, can be dressed up or down, and let me not seem to be in costume. Certainly my friends and I garnered a few inquisitive looks since we were dressed rather well at this Christmas event, but the comments we overheard were entirely praiseworthy.

In the top left of the image, too, you can tell that I have a rather slim-fitting shirt on. Again, incorporating a more modern element helps.

Beside that image you see what I might wear at wedding reception -- here I can incorporate a bow tie and enjoy myself, but I certainly have kept the whole outfit toned down (since it was not my wedding, and I was not in a situation where being overly expressive or eyecatching would be appropriate). Context means a lot...

And then you see me with a bow tie and a t-shirt.. having fun like this after some event you've dressed for certainly helps to put others at ease 










On alienating classmates or peers, again I suppose it depends on the same things I mentioned earlier. While it is much less of a hindrance at my college or at a dressy function since the deviation from the mean is so much less to interact with others (in such environments one even expects women to give extra consideration to someone put together, for instance), in reality confidence and being comfortable can overcome any sort of alienation initiated by dress.

Had you seen the young Japanese man laughing with some friends or lounging about, perhaps with his sports coat unbuttoned you might have had a difference experience. I think the problem is that considering "trad dress" as a special occasion causes people to adopt some other sort of personality which they normally would not have; and many assume they must "act" some sort of part in accordance with their dress. Nothing is farther from the truth -- you can easily be smiling and laughing, saying hello to people as you pass them and appearing genuinely interested in them and still be dressed okay. If anything, one can use their dress as a benefit -- some sort of talking point -- inevitably someone you've begin chatting with will bring it up after you've assuaged their suspicions about your lack of approachability.

Hope this sheds some light on whatever we're talking about!


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> I tend to go by the guiding principle that you can wear whatever you please, so long as you pull it off with confidence. Of course, this is tempered by not looking completely out of place (a tie in class, unless you have an interview that day, would throw off my profs, as much as I may wish it not to be the case). That said, I mostly stick to the basic OCBDs, khakis, sometimes jeans, topsiders and loafers. Throwing something GTH in there is quite easy at school.
> 
> How to work in a summer jacket or a tie is the most difficult, in my opinion. I've not really done it, particularly since I no longer have the excuse of going to work after class. I have a feeling it's nearly impossible to do unless you're in the deep south, but perhaps I am wrong.


^ this is a lot like me.. My basic wardrobe consists of solid colored OCBS's, chinos, Topsiders and Weejuns. Since I am young, I normally will wear some GTH item in the summer, given it is appropriate. I guess where Im from (University of Kentucky in the fall) I am considered to dress very "fratty," which is normally a Polo OCBD, chinos of any color, repp or emblematic beaus (many with some form of alcoholic beverage), Topsiders or Wallabees, needlepoint belt, a pair of RayBans or Costa Del Mars with croakies and a blue blazer. Fall and Winter it's tweed, Barbour, Bean Boots and a ballcap.

This is me in the seersucker blazer, Ray Ban Wayfarers, a R Haneur beau tie, PRL prospect chinos and sockless Weejuns below. My friend had on some pastel blue PRL chinos and a Hanuer tie as well with Eastland mocs.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?op=1&view=global&subj=502316302&pid=30735358&id=1202440633


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## WarrenB (Apr 15, 2009)

I find that alot like hookem I tend to mostly wear some mixture of OCBD, khakis, jeans, polos, and topsiders. A couple places where I do jump off the trad standard is that I wear shorts and sandals, as well as baseball caps. So I guess that makes me some form of trad/Southern Frat/Trad whatever you want to call it. But I know I get really hot in the summer wearing pants.... 

But I think if I was to dress in true trad standard, I would draw lots of funny looks. I find what I wear to be very comfortable and it's very similar to what a lot of law students here at UK wear. Lots of PRL, mostly polos and OCBDS, but also some VV, Lacoste, lots of topsiders, khakis, croakies. Pretty standard SEC school dress, although a little less trad than our deep south brothers.

Some examples:



On the Beach in Bonita Beach, FL



Keeneland Clubhouse



Kentucky Football Game



Very similar to what I wear pretty much every other day


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Quite the post CajunKing, judging by recent discussion on this board I'm guessing you're at Sewanee? None the less, I really like some of your looks. I think you're right in pointing out nonchalance as crucial in wearing some of this stuff. I imagine that only comes with time, though it seems many here were similarly coat and tie'd from a young age. I suppose "fake it 'till you make it" may be well advised as well! Anyway, great post! Great thread
EDIT: I think I've come up with a way to say what I was trying to convey: You should appear that you're wearing the clothes because you must be clothed, not for the sake of wearing _those_ clothes, if that makes any sense.

I would definitely add that I fall into the flip flops and shorts all too often in the summer, as well. It's hard not to when it's 100+ out for 30 straight days (last summer was brutal in Austin!).


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## OldSchoolCharm (Apr 12, 2010)

svb said:


> This thread is relevant to my interests.
> 
> What you're talking about is a look that I've been working on for awhile; a way to take trad elements and make them work in a modern way. I've settled on one factor being the key:
> 
> ...


Your car is awesome!

I like the slim tie too.

Everything works in that photo. It is a modern day miami vice.


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## OldSchoolCharm (Apr 12, 2010)

WarrenB said:


> I find that alot like hookem I tend to mostly wear some mixture of OCBD, khakis, jeans, polos, and topsiders. A couple places where I do jump off the trad standard is that I wear shorts and sandals, as well as baseball caps. So I guess that makes me some form of trad/Southern Frat/Trad whatever you want to call it. But I know I get really hot in the summer wearing pants....
> 
> But I think if I was to dress in true trad standard, I would draw lots of funny looks. I find what I wear to be very comfortable and it's very similar to what a lot of law students here at UK wear. Lots of PRL, mostly polos and OCBDS, but also some VV, Lacoste, lots of topsiders, khakis, croakies. Pretty standard SEC school dress, although a little less trad than our deep south brothers.
> 
> ...


I love the first and second photo. The third one, you need to lose the hat with a sweater.


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## OldSchoolCharm (Apr 12, 2010)

YoungTrad said:


> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?op=1&view=global&subj=502316302&pid=30735358&id=1202440633


The guy on the right makes me think of Tom Cruise from Risky Business. The guy on the left needs to lose the bowtie and unbotton the top button.


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

Haha I take the Tom Cruise comment as a compliment, so thanks! Just wondering, should the other kid lose his tie because he has no blazer of jacket of any kind on?


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

hookem12387 said:


> And I think you pulled it off well! Does the fiat actually start? Each time you turn the key? That would be more of a feat than any clothing accomplishment!


Thanks! Yes, the Fiat runs & drives great. I had a funny experience yesterday -- some guy in a Jeep on PCH wisecracked "Fix it again, Tony" in my direction and I promptly reminded him who now owns Jeep.

But I will say that I am fortunate to have a more modern car as my primary vehicle.



OldSchoolCharm said:


> Your car is awesome!
> 
> I like the slim tie too.
> 
> Everything works in that photo. It is a modern day miami vice.


Thanks! I think... not sure about the Miami Vice thing, but alright.

So for another example, here is today's fit:



















Lands' End
APC NS
Allen Edmonds

So for the stuff that sets this apart -- first, jeans are acceptable. Especially given it's the weekend. APC New Standards are even arguably "traditional" at this point, if not entirely "trad." Second, the shirt is a blue OCBD from Lands' End, but with a couple modifications. It's been tailored, which includes darts in the back. Again, on someone of my frame, I will argue that this is essential. However to some (many) trad stalwarts, any darting at all is blasphemy, especially on a shirt.

But that is why this is the more modern interpretation. :icon_smile_wink:


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Here's a very comfortable take on it, since today is a study day (well study 2 weeks, I suppose). I also went with jeans, but it's more a function of needing to do laundry! Pardon the messy room.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

hookem12387 said:


> Here's a very comfortable take on it, since today is a study day (well study 2 weeks, I suppose). I also went with jeans, but it's more a function of needing to do laundry! Pardon the messy room.
> View attachment 1022


Nice. I'd slim down the shirt just a tad but otherwise this is dead on.


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## OldSchoolCharm (Apr 12, 2010)

YoungTrad said:


> Haha I take the Tom Cruise comment as a compliment, so thanks! Just wondering, should the other kid lose his tie because he has no blazer of jacket of any kind on?


The bow tie would be great with a jacket, as you show in your picture. Maybe it is the pony that makes the bowtie look like too much for that shirt.


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## OldSchoolCharm (Apr 12, 2010)

svb said:


> Thanks! I think... not sure about the Miami Vice thing, but alright.


It is the cool sports car and the pink shirt with skinny tie.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

The APC jeans look great; I imagine the denim is much nicer than Levis


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## M. Morgan (Dec 19, 2009)

I'm twenty-four and in law school (and not one in the South, so I'm surrounded by mostly jeans-wearing guys with graphic tees). I guess what I try to do in a pretty inhospitable environment is the following: 

-I try not to be aloof socially, though I can't really help my somewhat formal disposition
-I don't wear ties to class
-odd jackets to class occasionally (tweed, wool ... burly coats in brown/gray), but no blue blazers with gleaming brass buttons -- looks like one's headed to Grandmother's for tea
-occasionally I'll just be in khakis, untucked polo, running shoes/Topsiders (I realize this is apostasy)
-this is probably just me -- most of the guys around here are snazzy, cleaned-up, well-fitted, etc. -- but I rest a little easier when I'm not completely put together. I know this seems antithetical to the whole point of these fora and blah blah blah, but so be it. For business clothes, I demand that they fit, be neat, and that I look nice in them, but when it comes to clothes for class and around friends, I do a pretty bad job of looking crisp. I rarely have khakis dry cleaned; some OCBDs and polos are fraying around the collar; my khakis have shrunk over the years and are an inch too short and they invariably get ink stains near the pockets or little holes in them; my shoes are old and scuffed and usually pretty casual (pennies or boat shoes). I don't feel quite so out of place in a button-down and jacket if I believe that folks realize that I just love the clothes, holes and all, and that it's not a particularly neat look that I'm going for -- just a comfortable, slightly more traditional one.


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## Jazzer (Jan 21, 2009)

svb said:


> Epaulet Red Club Collar Oxford
> Vintage Wembley tie
> J. Crew Navy Cords
> Vintage Stetson Wingtips
> 1976 Fiat 124 Spider


I don't mean to be nit-picky, but nothing in this photo looks quite right to me. Try a a button-down collar, skip the tie without a jacket, khakis instead of cords, loafers instead of wingtips, and get yourself a British sportscar.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Me too, Morgan. Different fits for different situations. In khakis I own M1s, M2s, and J. Crew classic fit chinos (fairly slim); I also own BB traditional fit and slim fit OCBDs which I wear for different moods/occasions and with different pants and jackets. Jeans I prefer to be slim. And I almost always prefer jeans to khakis for "going out" in the evening (typical restaurants, bars, pubs, parties.)


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Good thread, fellas. Keep it up.

My only advice, especially if you like the good stuff on a budget, would be to haunt the thrift exchange and your local thrift stores. Especially for the guys in the South and Northeast, the thrifts have lots of great items for the cost conscious. I see that PRL ocbds are fairly popular with you younger guys (I'm apparently old at 34) and mainline Polo stuff is dime a dozen in thrift stores as is J Crew and Banana Republic.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

This is already going very well. I thank all of you who are posting pictures; my camera is broken and I don't really keep photos of myself, nor do I have a facebook to collect them for me. I'll see if maybe I can get some later. Fir now though, I figured I ought to give a proper response to my own thread, how I do the look, and my advice to others. 
In the summertime I do cheerfully hued polos, plaid or khaki shorts, and topsiders or rainbows. I also wear OCBDs and lightweight cotton plaid button downs. This, along with a leatherman lobster belt defines the whole summer. Occasionally I will add in a cotton sweater and/or windbreaker for cool nights at the beach.
In winter, I take those same button-downs, but under sweaters (especially a thick Aran) and a Barbour (or a surplus peacoat for when its very cold) I also have quite a few Pendeltons that replace the OCBDs or go over them as light jackets. My Redwing boots see constant use around this time. Between those, I wear Levis, Pointers and cords, with khakis being less worn but not absent. As you can see, my winter look tends to be more rugged.
I rarely have occasion to wear a suit or tie, so you won't hear much about that. 
Most folk would not even think to call me trad, though I look slightly preppy in the summer, it is not noteworthy given the large A&F crowd around my parts (my look is a staid counterpart to their fake preppiness) I really look pretty plain. The main difference is that trad has taught me to get by on a much smaller wardrobe, and to pay more attention to quality. I have concentrated my small student budget to buy the best, and most of my clothes and accessories are US made, with a few UK items. I can't stress enough the importance of quality over quantity. I love everything I have and not a single designer name or logo is on any of it. 
Besides that, it has worked very well. I never draw attention to myself by my dress, but every seems to notice that I am well dressed- but they can never seem to figure why they think that. I'm not trendy or flashy, but other guys always end up asking for clothing advice from me. And girls seem to respond to it too- it seems the perfect way to look sharp without looking effeminate. 
Anyway, since I can't give you pics yet, I'll give you some other invasive info: a complete list of my wardrobe! It should be instructive as a check list for other young trads:
1 suit
1 blue blazer
2 khakis
4 ocbds
4 polos
2 summer plaids
4 pendletons
1 cords
2 jeans
2 sweaters
1 windbreaker
1 Barbour 
1 peacoat 
2 shorts

RedWing boots
penny loafers
black wingtips
boat shoes
rainbow sandals

gym clothes (shorts, NB 993, hoody) 

Socks, boxers and white v neck undershirts

They are also a few "accessories," which I will not go thru all of, but include a watch, a few ties, belts, hats, ect. I also have some prescription glasses. 

I would be great if some other guys would post checklists. I think that could even be an interesting thread by itself.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Some colleges are more hostile towards the look than others. If the college has a vaguely preppy look as the baseline (a lot of Southern colleges seem to be this way), you'll have an easier time of it.

Sweaters:

I've found that crew neck Shetlands without saddle shoulders or turn-up cuffs tend to do better than V-necks, cardigans, or Shaggy Dog style sweaters.

Trousers:

Jean-cut trousers tend to be less alienating than non jean-cut trousers. 5-pocket finewale corduroys, Carhartt-style brown duck trousers (the loose-cut versions can sneak by as khaki substitutes in a pinch -- keep an eye out for American made versions), ecru painter's twills, etc. Keep in mind, though, that it's best to keep the silhouette consistent; full-cut with full-cut, slim-fit with slim-fit. Standard khakis and wide-wale corduroys can work in more understanding environments, as long as they are played down by the rest of your clothing choices. Wool is a hard sell, as are especially GTH colors. You can get away with more in the shorts department.

Shirts:

Your standard collared shirts will work in most places. Plaid shirts will often get a pass in groups that are generally hostile to collared shirts. You might also try a rugby shirt. Watch out for stereotypes like the pink polo shirt; certain folks have very negative associations. In a pinch, you can always just go with heavyweight t-shirts in standard polo shirt colors.

Shoes:

Canvas shoes, weather permitting. White low-tops ala Jack Purcell work great, as do Keds style CVOs in white or navy. Redwings and similar old-school workboots will usually fly under the radar. I've found blucher mocs work in areas generally hostile to boat shoes and loafers. Dirty bucs might work, although they'd be something of a curiosity... less hostility and confusion than white bucs or proper leather shoes.

Belts:

Anything is fine, although it might be wise to avoid Preppy stereotypes (pastel ribbon belts, emblematic belts covered in pink whales, etc.) in groups hostile to that look. If you're a fan of suspenders, keep them under your shirt or sweater.

Jackets:

Think L.L. Bean. Barn coats with corduroy collars, olive M-65s, Carhartt-style duck jackets, etc. No overcoats. If you're itching for a down-filled ski-jacket, keep an eye out for one with a diagonal quilt. If you need something in a lighter weight, maybe a Patagonia recycled fleece or an English-made Baracuta.

Hats:

Bucket hats and Barbour-style waxed cotton baseball caps both do fairly well. Flat caps can work, depending on your group. Otherwise I'd leave it at that.

How would these work in practice? Well, maybe a camel Shetland crewneck, heather grey t-shirt, navy 5-pocket corduroys, and a pair of dark brown blucher mocs. Or one might try a madras shirt, khakis, white lowtop canvas sneakers, and a bucket hat. The trick is to keep in mind that levels of formality are *group-specific*, not location-specific. Meaning that your level of dress should be determined by the people around you, not by the location you are in. Maybe you're thinking, "Well yes, but all of my friends are slobs!" This may be true, but it is possible to dress Trad while dressing informally. Just remember the basic tenants of the look. 

Also as far as budget goes, I say that buying USA-made (or UK-made, or at the very least ethically-made) isn't as hard as people make it out to be. Men's clothing has the luxury of sizes that are connected to real measurements, which makes buying via mail-order or the internet much less stressful. Sometimes the choices are fairly limited (if you want gym shoes, New Balance is pretty much the only game in town, for instance), but if anything that makes things easier.


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## Caesars0331 (Jun 23, 2009)

Interesting thread....I have enjoyed reading it. 


I am not the youngest of the young "trads", but at 30 I imagine I am on the younger end of the forum age spectrum..That said, my pics in the WAYW thread pretty much sum up my style. I would like to think its fairly trad (3/2 sack jackets, tweeds, khakis, loafers, OCBD, boat shoes, rep/stripe ties, reds, madras, LWB and various "trad belts") I occasionally wear things that some might say are "costume-like", but I really don't care. I never feel odd or awkward in them, and always receive positive compliments. If some don't like it, they don't vocalize that opinion... I think it goes back to the confidence/manner in which you wear them that has been discussed many times before. 


My field/study is fairly eclectic, style-wise. I get the occasional "why so dressed up" every now and again...But tweeds and ties are not unheard of, and some show up in board shorts and hoodies. I could wear anything I want to and it wouldnt raise an eyebrow...I choose to dress the way I do for reasons not pertaining to the “office” or because of a corporate environment.....


I am not a big wearer of suits. I actually only own 3 that fit properly, and its somewhat rare that I wear them. Its not that I don't like wearing them, I actually really wish I did it more often, however I am not often in a situation that requires it. Jackets and khakis/cords suit me much better. 


I have been wearing a “uniform” since grade 1. 12 years of shirt and tie, followed by 4 years of military dress have made the style quite comfortable. (Though I fought it all the way as a kid, and got somewhat lazy after the Marine Corps)


I like wearing hats. I have one straw hat I wear in the summer, almost daily, and 3 "winter" hats (fedoras and one old tweed kangol that was my dads..actually one of the fedoras was my grandfathers).


I like wearing trench coats, overcoats and (finally) a barbour. (thaqnks tweedyD)


I don't wear blue jeans anymore. I gave up my last (only) pair around a year ago. Haven't missed them yet. 


I have two baseball caps that I wear at their respective stadiums....I used to wear them a lot as a younger man.


I only wear a white t-shirt when doing manual labor at my house in the summer when its really hot outside. 


I own 6 or so polo shirts, but wear them only occasionally. 


I don't feel awkward wearing a short sleeve madras or seersucker shirt when having a drink on my deck on a hot summer afternoon/evening. 


I own 25+ shirts, but only wear about 10 of them........


I wear boring socks, on the occasion that I do wear them. I would like to change that.(style, not frequency). 


I would like to start wearing more "dress" trousers, and perhaps get a little farther away from chinos everyday. 


I like simple pocket squares and wear one 95% of the time I wear a jacket


I thrift 2/3 or more of my attire. 


I cant wait to buy a pair of shells! (UNCLE!!!)


I love this forum and use it as a tool to put together new/different looks, as well as a history lesson/ study of trad clothing.


I am happy and enthusiastic about the friendships that I have made thus far; its been my pleasure to chat with a few of you guys. 


I really don't care, or pay much attention to, the esoteric "is this or that trad" discussions that appear daily, nor do I worry about "trad" minutia. 

Wow..that was quite a ramble...chalk that up to the mimosas at brunch. ( I have been editing this post all day while I watch the players)


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## PeterSawatzky (Feb 20, 2009)

My preference for Trad clothing came about because of a thrift store chain in my corner of the world that imports used clothes from the Boston area. I've always had definite preferences about my clothes and aesthetics in general but this site has helped me focus them and put it all together.

To some friends I'm "the boat guy" because I wore a blazer to a party once. It's good for a laugh. As one friend said, it's good to be "that guy," rather than be known as a really terrible dresser.

As far as my interpretation of Trad goes, I'm pretty conservative. No GTH items for me. I'm even wearing jeans today. (Levi's 505.)


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Youngster said:


> I can't stress enough the importance of quality over quantity.


No kidding.

I'll second this. This is huge. "Cost per wear" is often used as an absurd justification for higher-end items but there is some merit to it nevertheless. And in any event, buying low quality or ill-fitting clothing simply because you can purchase more or because it's cheap is incredibly short-sighted.

I've resolved to no longer buy clothes that are less than perfect. I'm also going to do everything I can to avoid mall brands. Better to have a few quality items than a bunch of rubbish.

I used to balk at spending over $100 on a shirt or over $500 on a suit. Not anymore.


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## Caesars0331 (Jun 23, 2009)

svb said:


> spending over $100 on a shirt or over $500 on a suit.


*Shudders* :icon_smile:


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Caesars0331 said:


> *Shudders* :icon_smile:


Haha. Of course, the caveat there is that if you're of the size and shape where stuff fits you OTR, you may not have to jump to that price point.

I said the above not to brag but to just emphasize that fit & quality are two things I've learned to pay for up front if you can. If the fit is wrong, you pay on the back end at your tailor (and that's assuming he can fix it). Minor alterations are a given, but you should never have to do "major surgery" on any item. If the quality is poor, you pay on the back end when you have to replace the item.

The numbers above may also represent my level of clothing-forum saturation. You stick around places like this long enough and learn enough, and those numbers will start to seem like starting points.


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## yanre_urriek (Jul 2, 2009)

I agree with most of what's been said so far. Like Cajunking (95% sure I know exactly who you are, by the way), I go to a very trad-friendly school. It isn't unusual for me to be wearing a jacket and tie to class, so I do. But, when I'm dressing more casually, I'm usually in chinos with an OCBD. To make it even more casual, I often untuck my shirt--makes me a little more acceptable for fun on Friday night. Nonchalance is key, and not being totally perfect helps; for example, one of my university stripe OCBDs has a giant rip in the cuff, but I wear it all the time. Or, I'll just leave the back part of my tie hanging out (especially with my knit ties). I'm afraid I don't go for the shorts with blazer look, but I've grown used to it at school.


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## chadwick (Apr 27, 2010)

Interesting thread. I just turned 25 so I'm guessing I fall into this category. I've been browsing this place for a while but I finally decided to register a short time ago. I've seen a lot of interesting threads and perspectives, although I wouldn't venture to say any of it has influenced my shopping habits or the way that I dress.

No offense to anyone who might strictly be interested in traditional clothing as a FASHION but if someone has budget concerns I'm not sure why they would even want to dress "trad" (which I'm guessing this forum uses in place of the exhausted and often misconstrued term "preppy"). I kind of always perceived it as a way to never have to worry about going out of style and more importantly to go unnoticed but yet look clean and professional for when it matters in my life. My recommendation for someone tight on means is to forget about clothes with prohibitive pricetags and just focus on their career and making a good living. I think it's silly to try to be something you're not 100% comfortable in or unable to afford, therefore my advice would be to just dress the way you want to and in whatever you feel looks good while living within your means and not thinking too hard. I suppose I'm somewhat of a hypocrite in the sense that I do really enjoy my clothing and what I call "classic" styles but probably not as much as just being happy and engaging in all that life has to offer.

Also, regardless of what anyone says (political correctness aside) or how they might want to take this, you can't be _anything other_ than white and not appear as though you're wearing a costume -- even then it's almost too easy to pick out the ones trying waaay too hard (blatant lack of pedigree I imagine?).


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Excess knows no race color creed or national origin. 

I try to cool the Spezz and GTH dispite my everpresent whiteness!!


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

svb said:


> Epaulet Red Club Collar Oxford


These are interesting, but for $130 you can buy a custom one from BB with a proper sizing...


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## chacend (Mar 4, 2008)

chadwick said:


> Also, regardless of what anyone says (political correctness aside) or how they might want to take this, you can't be _anything other_ than white and not appear as though you're wearing a costume -- even then it's almost too easy to pick out the ones trying waaay too hard (blatant lack of pedigree I imagine?).


I don't think this is true at all. If you go all Carlton Banks or Thurston Howell, you'll look like you are wearing a costume whether you are white or not. However, while Preppy is a part of Trad, Trad is not all Preppy. Review the Trad Men thread and you will see men of various races pulling of the look very comfortably. The best example would be Miles Davis, who is one of the best dressed men in that thread regardless of color.

As to the "pedigree" issue, full on Northeastern Preppy may require it but what we call Trad was mostly middle class and Southern Trad has quite a bit of Preppy mixed in with no "Pedigree" required, a little eccentricity maybe but no pedigree.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

WarrenB said:


> Kentucky Football Game


Go Big Blue!


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

AlanC said:


> Go Big Blue!


I like the way you think, AlanC


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

chadwick said:


> Interesting thread. I just turned 25 so I'm guessing I fall into this category. I've been browsing this place for a while but I finally decided to register a short time ago. I've seen a lot of interesting threads and perspectives, although I wouldn't venture to say any of it has influenced my shopping habits or the way that I dress.
> 
> No offense to anyone who might strictly be interested in traditional clothing as a FASHION but if someone has budget concerns I'm not sure why they would even want to dress *"trad" (which I'm guessing this forum uses in place of the exhausted and often misconstrued term "preppy")*. I kind of always perceived it as a way to never have to worry about going out of style and more importantly to go unnoticed but yet look clean and professional for when it matters in my life. My recommendation for someone tight on means is to forget about clothes with prohibitive pricetags and just focus on their career and making a good living. I think it's silly to try to be something you're not 100% comfortable in or unable to afford, therefore my advice would be to just dress the way you want to and in whatever you feel looks good while living within your means and not thinking too hard. I suppose I'm somewhat of a hypocrite in the sense that I do really enjoy my clothing and what I call "classic" styles but probably not as much as just being happy and engaging in all that life has to offer.
> 
> Also, regardless of what anyone says (political correctness aside) or how they might want to take this, you can't be _anything other_ than white and not appear as though you're wearing a costume -- even then it's almost too easy to pick out the ones trying waaay too hard (blatant lack of pedigree I imagine?).


You need to read up a little more on the term trad, but I do think that there are a lot of similarities between true "preppy" style and trad clothing. I would possibly go so far as to say that preppy is the younger and less subdued/more GTH version of Trad.

I liked the breakdown by clothing item that I saw earlier in the thread so I will due the same.

Shirts

My shirting wardrobe consists of OCBDs from Brooks,RL, J Crew, and Rugby. I also wear various tattersalls and ginghams from those places along with VV (though I haven't purchased a VV shirt with my own money for quite some time). I have a few Lacoste and J Crew polo shirts that I wear every now and then during the warmer months, but for the most part my shirts are long-sleeved button-up shirt with button-down collars. The only time you will see me in a t-shirt is if I am doing some sort of physical activity or I am at the beach. I have to admit though that I have been tempted lately by those jaspe tees from J Crew.

Sweaters

I have a couple shetlands, but most of my sweaters are v and crew neck cotton-cashmere sweaters from J Crew.

Pants and Shorts

In the colder months I wear khakis and APC jeans along with cords of various wale widths and colors. In the S/S I wear khaki shorts of various colors ( I know khaki is a color, but I say khaki instead of chino) and seersucker shorts. My preferred inseam length is 7" although I do have some that are slightly shorter and some slightly longer. I wear seersucker, linen and khaki pants during S/S.

Suits/Sport Coats

It is very hard to find quality, good looking suits and sports coats that aren't too big for me so I don't have many of these items. I just got a seersucker suit from Rugby that fits very well, though. I have one grey suit, but I have somehow misplaced the pants so I am not sure that I can even say I have a suit. I also have a blue blazer.

Outerwear

In the colder months I stick to my navy J Crew peacoat and several Patagonias. Now that it is warmer I wear either my navy Baracuta or a white and navy BB tennis jacket.

Shoes

I have a pair of black Park Avenues that I wear with my suit (when it was complete) and dress pants. Most of the time my feet can be found in my Bean camp or blucher mocs, RL penny loafers, or some form of Bean Boot if the weather is bad. As with tee shirts, I only wear tennis shoes if I am running or working out somehow.

Accessories etc.

My ties are mostly from J Crew, J Press and Ben Silver with a mix of VV, BB, and LP in there, also. I usually wear either my trusty brown leather belt from Bean or one of several surcingle or grosgrain belts. Swim trunks are always trunks (no board shorts) and are BB,RL, and LP. Sunglasses are Mosley Tribe aviators and most often my beloved tortoise shell Persol 649s.
And the only times socks touch my feet are when I am wearing my Park Aves or tall Bean Boots.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

AlanC said:


> Go Big Blue!





YoungTrad said:


> I like the way you think, AlanC


Neither of y'all are members of Catspause are you?


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## chadwick (Apr 27, 2010)

Chacend,

To clear up a tad of confusion: I do believe, regardless of racial lines, that anyone can be "well-dressed", "professional" and "stylish" in attire such as a suit and tie and nice shirt with a pair of pants - my ambiguity notwithstanding.

My remark was singling out a certain "je ne se quoi" inherent in the loosely defined "wasp" which developed over the years in conjunction with culture, style, status, mindset and _tradition_. But I suppose if we dressed a white man in a mariachi outfit and an asian in a Scottish kilt uniform for our "summer collection" and decided for long enough that it's a proper fit, who am I to argue or say what's appropriate?

I doubt there's a better example of the kind of unholy phenomenon I speak of than that consistently offered by PRL brand "rugby", which uses patently ill-fitted models to represent its "preppy" and ostensibly "old money" image that is often basked in exaggeration. I could hardly keep myself from laughing the first time I saw it.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

EastVillageTrad said:


> These are interesting, but for $130 you can buy a custom one from BB with a proper sizing...


Well, no, not really.

Yes, you can buy a custom BB oxford with a club collar for $130, but here's what you can't get:

- red oxford cloth
- high collar stance
- darts in the back
- shorter shirt tails (can be worn untucked)
- made in the USA? (not sure about BB on this one, but the Epaulet definitely is)
- superior customer service

As it happens, the Epaulet XS fits me perfectly, so I'm not concerned with getting a neck/sleeve fit. But of course with this, as with all things "fit," your results may vary.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

I have argued time and time again for an understanding of trad that is not based on wasps. It remains my opinion that trad is above all else, about maintaining an attitude toward clothing that puts quality first. This really has nothing to do with race or class- we could extend the principle to any race or income group or any nation. Granted, preppy is one way trad can be interpreted, but it is no more or less legitimate than my yeoman trad nor a working class trad. It boils my blood whenever somebody starts bringing class into the discussion of trad. This is America! America is not supposed to be about class; it is supposed to look a men's intrinsic properties. We should do the same for our clothes and the men who wear them. At any rate, the real WASPs are a dying breed, just like the feudal nobility before them. Get over it. I for one would be much happier with less upper class and more middle class. 

Anyways, back to clothes.
ps- Katon, I though that your post was excellent.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Traditional American clothing, by which I mean the middle-class wear that dominated the 1950s and 1960s in the United States, is neither "young" nor "old". It was a popular look at one time for kids, teens, young men, middle-aged men, and old men because it looked good on all those age categories. It still looks good on all those age categories, although most today aren't attracted to it.

So...

I do not understand how this current forum perception arose that "trad" is an old man/fogey style. That was not what we had in mind in the early days of the "trad" discussions on AAAC (and later AAAT). It makes no sense historically, and it makes no sense today.

Does anyone read the old threads?


READ THE OLD THREADS. Learn something.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Dr. D, I think it's more that the current generation thinks this a largely "fogey" style, as you put it. Obviously that doesn't extend to all, or there would be fewer members under 30 on this site. Of course the style was not based on clothes exclusively worn by an older set originally, even the books that satirize and chronicle the look suggest that -- take ivy and the OPH were geared for the college aged, no? I think that everyone hear understands that. Or maybe I'm missing the point of your post.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

The whole purpose of this thread is to sort out how "trad" can work for the under-30s today by making a few modifications to the established notions of what trad is.

Trad, as it is defined in this forum, may have been universally applicable in its heyday, but it isn't today. 

Luckily, there is plenty of interest in vintage styles and Americana among the younger set. Trad has a place in there somewhere. With a few tweaks, it will live on, I think.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Memphis88 said:


> Neither of y'all are members of Catspause are you?


I have been for several years, although I don't post very often. I mainly look at it for recruiting news.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> *most today aren't attracted to it.*


That cause the world changes, and we gotta change with it. Telling college freshmen to just dress like 1960 is as useless as telling them to dress like 1690; anyone for powdered wigs, tights and man-heels? Trad remains relevant because it has utility- it emphasizes quality, simplicity and utility, thus letting you get a lot of miles out of a very small closet. This is perfect for students and young folk. All they need is some basic guidance, how to build the wardrobe, and how to wear it in a way that does not look dated. Believe me Doc, I would love if fashion was stagnant and if clothes were just clothes. But times change and clothing is a visual language that tells a whole lot about you before you even open your mouth. We can't just live in denial of that. So, for now, can we just get back to giving kids advice on how to build trad wardrobes, and then wear them without getting funny looks?


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

svb said:


> Well, no, not really.
> 
> Yes, you can buy a custom BB oxford with a club collar for $130, but here's what you can't get:
> 
> ...


All these things you cite as far as satorial details fall into the larger issue, that this is part of the faux-preppy / hipster look which I don't subscribe to.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I've been enjoying this thread, and, as a 62 year old, keeping my mouth shut. However, Youngster, I would like to take issue with your original proposition tnat the trad look is "old man's clothes." Perhaps, out of deference to the tender sensibilities of some of the -ahem- more seasoned forum members, that might be rephrased as "man's clothes." :icon_jokercolor:

Seriously, though, we're talking about what is really a young man's style. The various not-quite-synonymous terms for it, "ivy," "preppy," "collegiate," etc. all suggest that. So do the wonderful pictures that many of you have posted here.

SVB, your self-congratulatory tone notwithstanding, let me point out that in the golden age of Trad, slacks, lapels, and neckties were as slim-cut and your "modern trad" look, and it's a look that many of us still favor, if we can still fit in to it - you haven't invented anything.


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## Lamarque (Oct 7, 2009)

I have to agree with Doctor Damage, The Rambler, and EastVillageTrad, and I'm twenty-six.

If the look contributes to the perception of the wearer's age I'd actually argue that it makes older men seem more youthful and in a good way. As The Rambler said this is how men dress. Our society has become a youth cult with all sorts of plastic sugery and hair removal. Clothing likewise has not been immune. Contemporary Americans dress as children, many of them their whole lives. 

I wear a tie and coat to work four days a week despite being one of two men under thirty to wear a tie, one of a handful of all ages, and the only man wearing a coat. I don't look old; I look well-dressed. 

I also think taking the look to a super-slim skin-tight dimension is to do it a disservice. One of the most American aspects of the style is that one looks and feels comfortable. I'm not saying that a slim man should wear the same shirt as a heavier man, but I do think there should be a bit of blousing, and flat-fronted trousers necessitate room to move in the crotch and rear unless one wants an abundance of unsightly crotch creases.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

I can understand what Youngster means about this being called "old man clothes", because before I knew about this forum, I often called my choice in dressing "old man like". 


Heck, I wasn't the only one who called my style "Old". Various classmates, friends, and Teachers, would tell me that I like to wear "Old Man clothes".


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## Lamarque (Oct 7, 2009)

I'll add that I do like well-fitting clothing, but I don't think skin-tight qualifies as such.

My Standards:

Workday
B2 Slim Fit OCBD (I'm thin, still have a bit of blousing)
B2 Slim repp striped tie
sack odd jacket (Southwick or B2, I actually find a well-fitting sack's drape quite flattering on a slim but not muscular frame; it drapes in a straight manner following my frame)
L.L. Bean Vintage Field Watch on a striped Nato band
Leather Man surcingle belt
J. Crew Classic Fit khakis (slim and tapered but still very comfortable, I've tried higher quality khakis to no avail so far)
J. Crew cotton argyle socks
penny loafers or bucks

Non-Workday
tieless B2 Slim Fit OCBD or J. Crew Tailored Fit polo
Timex Camper on Central strap
same khakis or J. Crew khaki shorts
Leather Man surcingle
white athletic socks if cold, none if warm
Top-Siders or Bean Bluchers


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

Trad/preppy clothing is multi-generational. As stated in the OPH, the man's wardrobe can make one appear elderly as a child and youthful as an adult, but the look never changes. (I'm paraphrasing.) Of course the OPH is satire, but there is something to be said for that observation.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

I really didn't want this thread to be a battleground, but too late, I guess. 
I will say this one more time- If you are 18 and you dress exactly like Patrick (who is an excellent dresser), you would, as an 18 year old, be told "you dress like an old man. This is the truth. Students now do not dress like they did 50 years ago, and if you will not believe that, then you are just being willfully obtuse. You can't just pretend away the rest of society. We live now, not then.
Trad, however, has such excellent intrinsic qualities that it can easily remain relevant with just a few small tweaks. That is about as classic as anything is. So lets get back to the point of discussing how to tweak trad to work for younger guys. And I promise y'all fogies- it does.


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## Lamarque (Oct 7, 2009)

You're right that an eighteen-year-old may not be able to get away with a tie and coat everyday. He could however certainly get away with a polo/OCBD and khakis with confidence, and they would not need to be painted-on.


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## chadwick (Apr 27, 2010)

I would agree with the fact that "old man clothes" or "mr. rogers" has been used to describe those of us who do not subscribe to the regular clothing trends followed by certain peers -- It has been said to me on a number of occasions. Another more positive comment that gets used goes something along the lines of "you dress really classic", or "when I think of classic, I think of you".


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Youngster said:


> I really didn't want this thread to be a battleground, but too late, I guess.
> I will say this one more time- If you are 18 and you dress exactly like Patrick (who is an excellent dresser), you would, as an 18 year old, be told "you dress like an old man. This is the truth. Students now do not dress like they did 50 years ago, and if you will not believe that, then you are just being willfully obtuse. You can't just pretend away the rest of society. We live now, not then.
> Trad, however, has such excellent intrinsic qualities that it can easily remain relevant with just a few small tweaks. That is about as classic as anything is. So lets get back to the point of discussing how to tweak trad to work for younger guys. And I promise y'all fogies- it does.


Dead on.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Hah--I knew it! Patrick is an old man.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Today:










LLB Signature
J. Crew
Allen Edmonds


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

This has to be my last post in this thread for the day, as I must make myself study more, but... I think that translating what was worn in 1960 to now would be much easier, and a "younger man's game" so to speak. From what I can tell, the biggest complaint many of us have is with the fit, it's often just too baggy now. It seems to me that 50 years ago, clothes weren't as loose as they are now. I think clothes have ballooned in the 90's and 2000's as American's have likewise ballooned. I suspect what many of us strive for is actually a more direct interpretation of the look than we realize.

SVB, is the shirt signature? It looks like it is slim fitting WITH a decent collar, which is just too good to be true (certainly in lands end canvas and jcrew and the like)


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

hookem12387 said:


> I suspect what many of us strive for is actually a more direct interpretation of the look than we realize.


I suspect you may be right.



hookem12387 said:


> SVB, is the shirt signature? It looks like it is slim fitting WITH a decent collar, which is just too good to be true (certainly in lands end canvas and jcrew and the like)


Yes, it is signature; it's a size small. But I've also had it tailored (slimmer body & arms, darts in the back).


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

svb said:


> Today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a very nice Sunday afternoon look, but isn't going to hack it when you try to step into the Union League for Thursday cocktails...


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

EastVillageTrad said:


> That is a very nice Sunday afternoon look, but isn't going to hack it when you try to step into the Union League for Thursday cocktails...


Well, to be fair, that was probably not in his day plan... if he was going to hang out with an older crowd where a more formal look was expected, that's one thing, but the same look that would relax the Union League might put off the folks he was meeting up with on Monday.  The ultimate point behind different levels of dress is to put different types of people at ease, after all.


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

katon said:


> Well, to be fair, that was probably not in his day plan... if he was going to hang out with an older crowd where a more formal look was expected, that's one thing, but the same look that would relax the Union League might put off the folks he was meeting up with on Monday.  The ultimate point behind different levels of dress is to put different types of people at ease, after all.


True.

I not would say the ULC has that much of an "older" crowd. Runs the gammet.

Sure it isn't a hipster beer bar on the Lower East Side full of 18-24 year olds, but I've been there and done that...

& I doubt that your hipster / wannabe could make hay in a haunt like that where trad is the real thing and not some dress-up fantasy...


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

chadwick said:


> My remark was singling out a certain "je ne se quoi" inherent in the loosely defined "wasp" which developed over the years in conjunction with culture, style, status, mindset and _tradition_. But I suppose if we dressed a white man in a mariachi outfit and an asian in a Scottish kilt uniform for our "summer collection" and decided for long enough that it's a proper fit, who am I to argue or say what's appropriate?


I'm not entirely sure that a person can argue for a Trad/Ivy League look as being a form of ethnic dress, though. It's a form of dress that historically was shaped by schools, after all. It also incorporates quite a bit of acculturation... Even back in the day, I imagine it wouldn't be unreasonable to find a fellow from New York with mostly Dutch heritage who enjoyed wearing Indian-made madras shirts based on Scottish tartans. 



chadwick said:


> I doubt there's a better example of the kind of unholy phenomenon I speak of than that consistently offered by PRL brand "rugby", which uses patently ill-fitted models to represent its "preppy" and ostensibly "old money" image that is often basked in exaggeration. I could hardly keep myself from laughing the first time I saw it.


Well, preppy is a re-distillation of old Ivy League looks. As such, a lot of it is way over-the-top. Polo models should be used as the outer edge of the look. When you're blending your own mix of Anglo, Preppy, and Americana, the answer to the question, "How much Preppy is too Preppy?" should at the very least be, "If you look like a Polo model, you've gone too far."


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

No such thing as "too preppy". 

That said, you can wear what you like, so long as you don't care what other people think. I don't care at all what people think. Do I wear "old man clothes?" In their mind, yes. To my mind? No. I can tell you whose opinion I care about.


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## JakeLA (Oct 30, 2006)

EastVillageTrad said:


> That is a very nice Sunday afternoon look, but isn't going to hack it when you try to step into the Union League for Thursday cocktails...


So he can't be a member of your Fantasy Trad Team then?


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

These kids today...I recently overheard a young guy disparage a chum as a "preppy douchebag" because the kid...tucked in his shirt.

That threw me--you can't even tuck in your shirt?! It's hard out here for a trad.

I keep forgetting that I'm not in the "young" category...39 next month. I guess I'm lucky to be free of the peer anxiety that attends student life.

Eh, what do I know. Get off my lawn.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

AlanC said:


> I have been for several years, although I don't post very often. I mainly look at it for recruiting news.


But you seem so rational and intelligient on here. That place is so full of crazy it's sickening.


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## Memphis88 (Sep 10, 2008)

Pink and Green said:


> No such thing as "too preppy".
> 
> That said, you can wear what you like, so long as you don't care what other people think. I don't care at all what people think. Do I wear "old man clothes?" In their mind, yes. To my mind? No. I can tell you whose opinion I care about.


Exactly. Dress for yourself and nobody else.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Memphis88 said:


> But you seem so rational and intelligient on here. That place is so full of crazy it's sickening.


You would find me reasonable on there as well. ;-) Many of the posters there are quite young, which is a big part of the issue. Bad money also tends to drive out good. Still, it is quite useful for recruiting updates.


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

JakeLA said:


> So he can't be a member of your Fantasy Trad Team then?


Probably not, and we're not drafting anyone from SoCal...


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Youngster said:


> I have argued time and time again for an understanding of trad that is not based on wasps. It remains my opinion that trad is above all else, about maintaining an attitude toward clothing that puts quality first. This really has nothing to do with race or class- we could extend the principle to any race or income group or any nation. Granted, preppy is one way trad can be interpreted, but it is no more or less legitimate than my yeoman trad nor a working class trad. It boils my blood whenever somebody starts bringing class into the discussion of trad. This is America! America is not supposed to be about class; it is supposed to look a men's intrinsic properties. We should do the same for our clothes and the men who wear them. At any rate, the real WASPs are a dying breed, just like the feudal nobility before them. Get over it. I for one would be much happier with less upper class and more middle class.
> 
> Anyways, back to clothes.
> 
> Gobbledygook, sir. It's about "quality?" That says nothing. Less upper class and more middle class? It has always been a middle class style. Why do you deny the existence of class in America, and then go on to say what class the style properly belongs to? And why would you insult all the "old men,"


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Youngster said:


> I have argued time and time again for an understanding of trad that is not based on wasps. It remains my opinion that trad is above all else, about maintaining an attitude toward clothing that puts quality first. This really has nothing to do with race or class- we could extend the principle to any race or income group or any nation. Granted, preppy is one way trad can be interpreted, but it is no more or less legitimate than my yeoman trad nor a working class trad. It boils my blood whenever somebody starts bringing class into the discussion of trad. This is America! America is not supposed to be about class; it is supposed to look a men's intrinsic properties. We should do the same for our clothes and the men who wear them. At any rate, the real WASPs are a dying breed, just like the feudal nobility before them. Get over it. I for one would be much happier with less upper class and more middle class.
> 
> Anyways, back to clothes.
> 
> Gobbledygook, sir. It's about "quality?" That says nothing. Less upper class and more middle class? It has always been a middle class style. Why do you deny the existence of class in America, and then go on to say what class the style properly belongs to? And why would you insult all the "old men," anyone over what, 25? and then say you were hoping to avoid a fight - that makes you sound like a disingenuous t***p to me.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Glad to see this thread's not controversial in any way. (10)


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## Henry346 (Oct 31, 2009)

For New York I get by with a mix of Polo, Lands End, oxfords day to day, with some OCBD's from said brands + J Crew, BB. My ties I get mostly from the major European lines, some Purple Label, some BB, and some J Crew. Shoes for day to day are either Bass Weejuns or Sperry Topsiders in classic brown. I have a pair of Nordstrom made in Italy black captoes that I think are great for more dressy ocassions as well as a pair of leather soled Bostonian bluchers. I have a Navy Blazer thats Saks House brand and a suit that is Polo. A lot of my shorts, polos, belts, and bowties are VV. Have a pair of ray bans. The few socks I do wear are either subtly patterned polo ones or random argyle ones. I do not wear hats except for a few baseball hats--a Yankees one and a generic underamour one. My only nice coat is the wool cashmere blend charcoal car coat from Banana Republic. My sweaters are all BB and Ralph with a few J Crew cotton cashmere. I am considered better dressed than the hipsters in my school and I stick out, but I think everyone's accepted it--I sometimes think "preppy" is making comeback even in my school maybe because of me. Maybe not the whole lifestyle or even the proper attitude but it's a start I guess.


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## RichardSergeant (Apr 23, 2010)

svb said:


> This thread is relevant to my interests.
> 
> What you're talking about is a look that I've been working on for awhile; a way to take trad elements and make them work in a modern way. I've settled on one factor being the key:
> 
> ...


Wearing that great club collar shirt with those navy cords is a really nice personal touch. :aportnoy:


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## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

RichardSergeant said:


> Wearing that great club collar shirt with those navy cords is a really nice personal touch. :aportnoy:


You know, I actually have to agree - I don't own any club collars and have a hard time imagining how to wear one personally, but now that you mention it, that outfit works, even if it's not strictly trad.


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## Cajunking (Apr 30, 2010)

hookem12387 said:


> Quite the post CajunKing, judging by recent discussion on this board I'm guessing you're at Sewanee? None the less, I really like some of your looks...


You'd be right, and thanks! With enough confidence faking just about anything a little is feasible... (to a point, obviously!)

I know that I swelter in Louisiana in the summer, so I can only imagine Texas... yikes. Maybe the willingness to throw in flip flops adds to the devil-may-care attitude (of course furthered by some sort of obnoxious pants)? 



yanre_urriek said:


> ... and not being totally perfect helps; for example, one of my university stripe OCBDs has a giant rip in the cuff, but I wear it all the time. Or, I'll just leave the back part of my tie hanging out (especially with my knit ties).


I think this is true, definitely. Back to the nonchalance -- a focus on nice things is important, but so is the disregard for those nice things..! (a lot easier if your nice things were found at outlets, I'm sure!) I think it helps put others at ease, as well, since they would expect (as a reflection of your clothing) you to be rather concerned with your clothing if you take any time at all in the morning to throw something together. Really most stains and tears are negligible and can be fixed up proper _enough_. :icon_smile_wink:

And I would guess that your suspicion as to who I am was correct!



Lamarque said:


> You're right that an eighteen-year-old may not be able to get away with a tie and coat everyday. He could however certainly get away with a polo/OCBD and khakis with confidence, and they would not need to be painted-on.


I suppose my question is how you define "painted-on." Would anyone in any of the images posted so far qualify (not to pick on anyone, just for reference)? I do not think anyone here is explicitly arguing for clothing as tight as, say, the skinny jeans that are "in" right now (of course I could be wrong).

Lastly, Someone was mentioning the OPH -- I haven't actually even ever seen a copy of the OPH, but it's my understanding that, though tongue-in-cheek, it's poignant because of its accuracy. So wouldn't it still be relevant in our discussion to some extent? Tell me if I'm under the wrong impression!


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Doctor Damage said:


> Traditional American clothing, by which I mean the middle-class wear that dominated the 1950s and 1960s in the United States, is neither "young" nor "old". It was a popular look at one time for kids, teens, young men, middle-aged men, and old men because it looked good on all those age categories. It still looks good on all those age categories, although most today aren't attracted to it.
> 
> So...
> 
> ...


This nails it.

When I started visiting this forum about 4 years ago it wasn't a place to learn a new way of dressing, it was a place where the like-minded existed.

Now days people are coming here trying to acquire a "look"... Which isn't the point. We're not here to hand hold you into a new style... that is why we reject the new "feel" here.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

This is a weird but interesting thread. I see people wanting to have their Trad and eat it too. A number of fellows seem to have discovered that the best way to be trad is to not be trad at all.

If the main goal is to avoid looking like old men in the eyes of the flip flop nation, I'd suggest avoiding collared shirts altogether. 

Slippery, meet slope.


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## tsweetland (Oct 2, 2006)

Well, I've used the forum to learn about a new way of dressing, new for me, anyway. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to avoid looking "old," which can happen easily if you delve too far into some of the style that gets discussed/displayed around here. My advice is stay away from the "trad-orthodoxy" or "the rules" or whatever you want to call it. A lot of us are attracted to this style of dress, whatever you want to call it, because it's neat, clean, effortless and classic looking. 

I think it's best to resort to the old-guard shops for classic items that they really do make better than anyone else (i.e. ocbds from BB, a navy blazer from J. Press, etc.) As far as style goes, I like what I see coming out of J. Crew, L.L. Bean Signature and Land's End Canvas much more than anything Press or BB has had to offer in years. I think those shops capture what I'm looking for - the classic "trad" look but younger and more stylish. 

Use the forum (and other sources) for inspiration, not as a rule book.


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## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Joe Beamish said:


> This is a weird but interesting thread. I see people wanting to have their Trad and eat it too. A number of fellows seem to have discovered that the best way to be trad is to not be trad at all.
> 
> Slippery, meet slope.


+1 This seems to be happening a lot recently on the forum. People seem generally attracted to the look, but dismiss staples like the natural shoulder sack jacket :icon_scratch:.


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

Cardinals5 said:


> +1 This seems to be happening a lot recently on the forum. People seem generally attracted to the look, but dismiss staples like the natural shoulder sack jacket :icon_scratch:.


Yes, that is the whole problem...TNSIL is TNSIL for a reason...


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## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> I've been enjoying this thread, and, as a 62 year old, keeping my mouth shut. However, Youngster, I would like to take issue with your original proposition tnat the trad look is "old man's clothes." ...Seriously, though, we're talking about what is really a young man's style. The various not-quite-synonymous terms for it, "ivy," "preppy," "collegiate," etc. all suggest that. So do the wonderful pictures that many of you have posted here....


Indeed. The original proposition is completely fallacious. That "young man's style" which men continue to wear until their undertaker fits them with their final sack suit, OCBD and repp tie is simply a man's style that doesn't see any reason to change all that much as a man ages.

It really isn't that complicated and there is certainly a vast trove of information in this forum's archives just waiting to be read.

To seek advice on the finer details of what to wear or to wonder how to put together a sound basic wardrobe is a great thing. But to do any of that with a nervous, twitchy eye towards how everyone else is viewing you is a never-ending, pointless vanity. You will never be able to walk down any street in any kind of clothes and get the approval of everyone. To be looking for such blanket approval means you've already missed one of the central points in life and were ill-served by those that brought you up. Trying to cover your interior shortcomings with oxford cloth or even wild rayon prints simply will not work. If your moral fiber and character is lacking no amount of natural fibers or natural shoulders can compensate.

--Quay, Grand Lodge of the Curmudgeons, West Coast Hall, Table by the Window, Gimlet in hand.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Can you spot the conundrum?



Youngster said:


> ...It boils my blood whenever somebody starts bringing class into the discussion of trad....I for one would be much happier with less upper class and more middle class.


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Quay said:


> Indeed. The original proposition is completely fallacious. That "young man's style" which men continue to wear until their undertaker fits them with their final sack suit, OCBD and repp tie is simply a man's style that doesn't see any reason to change all that much as a man ages.
> 
> It really isn't that complicated and there is certainly a vast trove of information in this forum's archives just waiting to be read.
> 
> ...


Well put. Make mine a double!


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

IMO, for those looking to "acquire" a look, first establish what YOU like and what YOU feel comfortable in. Is that related to the places you visit and the company you keep? Do you feel uncomfortable in what you are wearing? If not and you read this forum, you probably already dress well because you are comfortable. If not you have to figure out what that is.

I have definitely noticed a renewed interest in "classic American" styles recently on the street, in the stores, in magazines, etc. This seems like something that will always ebb and flow as a trend, as it has for numerous decades, for whatever reason.

I think many who visit this forum are looking to develop and/or refine a consistent style of dress that is all things at once for them- appropriate, cool, fitting for their life, etc. Plenty of people on AAAC have achieved this in the realm of trad, and not.

Without parsing the differences between trad, preppy, americana, hipster, etc. I think the general thrust is that folks are looking for something comfortable and static that fits with the way they view themselves and enables them to feel 'well dressed' while not being overly self-conscious. "Trad" provides a static look that in some ways hip, in some ways anachronistic, but always "trad". 

The world of khakis, ocbds, mocs, tweeds (eg the classics) is a broad enough venue to provide a nice reference point for some people, me included. Personally, until I had a choice I was always dressed in a 'trad' manner, which as I went through high school and college evolved into what I'd call more "slob" with some of the basic elements of trad in my wardrobe. I started looking at this forum because I was looking for some help to clean up my act in my casual wear and not feel like I was being dragged to church or someone's graduation when I dressed up. I mean this a way of saying I didn't feel comfortable in the way I was dressing, even though my taste and knowledge of clothes was skewed towards "trad", and that you can wear the elements of what is described here as trad and not look particularly "trad" or feel good.

Not really sure what that all meant, but I do think whether you are young or old you've got to find a fit that works for you personally- not baggy if you don't feel comfortable with that, but not skimpy/trendy/skinny. Then you can work in the fabrics- oxford, chino, tweed, 'sucker, whatever- over that and be good. TNSIL has been baggy, slim, and in between so it likely has more to do with how it fits you, how you feel, and how you interpret the style. When I see more than one bright colored/madras/gth type of item in one ensemble, or it's overly tight, that's the point where it starts looking like the person is wearing a goofy costume.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

Remember what I said about being intentionally obtuse? Do you read my posts only to nitpick them? I try my best to be polite on this forum, and I am doing my best to be respectful, but I know that I, like everyone, occasionally start some ****- mea culpa. I apologize for any wrong I have done any of you. I will continue to try to be a more gentlemanly internet user.
However, I feel like the conduct of some of you stalwarts (my trad heroes) is nothing short of rude. You have simply decided to argue, and you have stopped trying to understand my points all together. I am just disappointed that the level of discourse has dropped so far that it is barely even discourse at all. Clearly you don't care about my original point enough to give it a real treatment- that is fine, just don't post. There is no need to be rude and dismissive. What I see here is really shaking my faith in this forum- while this forum is usually a bastion of gentlemanly behavior, it looks like little more than a couple of vicious cliques, who have hairpin triggers and are just looking to jump on folk they disagree with. Maybe it's just all the "is blank trad" threads, getting everyone all worked up into inquisition mode. But I expect you elders to engage in a more civilized fashion. We can't make this forum work if there is no discussion and we can't have real discussions if folk won't be polite. We all need to quite being so offended and get this place back on track.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Unfortunately Youngster the forum is once again in a defining moment, one that requires strong opinions. Your thread here has appealed to one side of that debate that many of us are being forced to stongly oppose at this time. Gentlemanly discourse only succeeds between reasonable parties, and the forum has been given up to madness.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Let's get back to describing our ideas with photos of actual fits. We'll get much further critiquing fits than through just offhand bickering.

I'd post today's, but I'm in depo. I'm wearing a British suit, shirt and tie, so none of it is even remotely trad. I'll try to be back later this week.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

Coleman said:


> Unfortunately Youngster the forum is once again in a defining moment, one that requires strong opinions. Your thread here has appealed to one side of that debate that many of us are being forced to stongly oppose at this time. Gentlemanly discourse only succeeds between reasonable parties, and the forum has been given up to madness.


Well, that my be. I'm glad there is still somebody calm in the room. Do you wanna play ref on this? Can you negotiate a cease fire? :icon_peaceplease:


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

Youngster- I can understand your point there, but I would also suggest avoiding a thin skinned approach, forget the "gentleman internet user" thing. Disagreements on the style can lead to the best discussion and insight, and from what I interpreted in the thread there's nothing to take offense to here. Read the old threads if you haven't already.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

svb said:


> Let's get back to describing our ideas with photos of actual fits. We'll get much further critiquing fits than through just offhand bickering.
> 
> I'd post today's, but I'm in depo. I'm wearing a British suit, shirt and tie, so none of it is even remotely trad. I'll try to be back later this week.


I think that's really the best course of action. Pictures, inventories, parings and brands could make this thread evolve back into a useful outlet. I would even ask the mods to clean up the bickering, but I'm not sure if post deletion is something that often occurs on AAAC. I posted my WAYW in the normal thread yesterday, and today I've defaulted back to my original post in this one (I think I'm hoping for some fabric motivated information recall on today's Contracts exam), or I would post mine. Since I suggested brands and stores be listed, I will do that, though.

-Shirt: Thrifted Gant Foxhunt Plaid (seriously, the most comfortable shirt I've ever worn) -- my girlfriend didn't like this one till I wore it, and it's now a favorite!
-Pants: Levis 514, tried and true! Though I'd like some fuller fitting jeans as well, these barely work for boots
-Belt: J Crew, basic brown leather (on sale)
-Shoes: Top Siders, something comfortable for test day!

2nd double shot americano and I'm set for the day!


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

As for actual clothing advice, the biggest mistake young guys make is buying cheap shoes. I have made this mistake, and indeed, it is a mistake. Good shoes last a long time, can be repaired, develop patina, and best of all, you can't grow out of them. A pair of AE for dress and RedWings for casual winter wear will do great things for a young man. I would say that fine welted footwear is probably to best investment that can be made in clothes. After all, poor fitting shoes will make you far more uncomfortable than a poorly fitting shirt.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

The look is timeless. The look is age-less. That's a fact (which I had thought was indisputable). Anyone who says otherwise (i.e. "it's old man style") is probably an ignorant teenager or immature adult*, neither of whose opinions matter to society. If one wants to start discussing modern interpretations of the look, then we get into the GAP and J Crew territory. One of the underlying ideas about "trad" is to hew to the traditional version of the look, not modern interpretations, but I recongize people's perceptions change even if reality doesn't. There is no such thing as a "young man's trad" since it was always a young man's look. Nor is it an "old man's style" since it was worn successfully by all ages. It's timeless, it's age-less.

Wait - what am I saying?

Hmmm....

Basically, acquire classic clothes, make sure they fit, wear them in appropriate situations, and don't puff your chest out when you've got them on since - when all is said and done, and the huffing and puffing is over - they're only clothes.


* Including also those clueless blonde "mean girls" who work in Human Resources and write dress codes based on what their slacker husbands wear while trawling through Rona or Ikea for crap products with which to fix or fill their banal suburban townhouses and improve its resale "value".


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## green_isle (Oct 16, 2009)

The young trad should focus more on fitness and posture, rather than perfecting his wardrobe. Being in shape and wearing more fitted clothing is what it takes to look good. Don't buy a bunch of clothes if you are not satisfied with you fitness level. Don't force ties, it's kitschy. Never cheap out on shoes, sunglasses or belts. Focus on fit for a more youthful look. Nothing wrong with wearing polos. Wear shorts in the summer.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

Youngster said:


> Well, that my be. I'm glad there is still somebody calm in the room. Do you wanna play ref on this? Can you negotiate a cease fire? :icon_peaceplease:


I've been playing the part of ref since becoming a confident poster to the forum. It's exhausting, especially now with so many corrupting threads and words of advice (like jeans and a t-shirt being a good rig).

I won't do it anymore, at least for the time being.


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

svb said:


> This thread is relevant to my interests.
> 
> What you're talking about is a look that I've been working on for awhile; a way to take trad elements and make them work in a modern way. I've settled on one factor being the key:
> 
> ...


I think it's a good look here, but perhaps it is more the colors and styles rather than the trimness that makes it what I would perceive as less trad (not meaning trad as positive or negative, but only my understanding of the term and obviously your intent is your own brand of style not my interpretation of trad).

eg

- club collar shirt in red/pink - a noticeably old-school style, that stands out more in red/pink, where white, blue, or blue with white collar could more easily be construed as "trad"

- blue pants. i would not think of blue chinos or cords (not suit or jean) as "trad", though they certainly look sharp.

- extra skinny tie - popular in the 60s in trad-wear, but definitely a notably edgier or fashionable look today.

of course your jacket is probably in the back seat 

these elements make it seem more modern, styled preppy to me than even the fit.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

It's not really that complicated, is it? If you're a young'n or in school just wear the trad/Ivy/TNSIL stuff whatever without the jacket and tie. You'll look completely normal. And good.

Right?


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

Youngster said:


> I have noticed a recent influx of younger guys to _this forum so dedicated to old man's clothing_....


You'll get nibbles when you chum the hole like this! Well done


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Coleman said:


> I've been playing the part of ref since becoming a confident poster to the forum.


Did I miss something? Who died?


Brownshoe said:


> It's not really that complicated, is it? If you're a young'n or in school just wear the trad/Ivy/TNSIL stuff whatever without the jacket and tie. You'll look completely normal. And good.
> 
> Right?


You're correct. It's not complicated. That's why some people don't understand it.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

In all honesty I could have been a sort of middleground in this thread, and had I not been on vacation last week to come back to this and a great many other worse threads, I might have made an attempt.

I too wear slimmer and trimmer (but never tight and uncomfortable) fits than some hold-up as the true Trad. I too am young (twenty-five, although the way some of you gents talk I must be one foot in the grave). I too prefer a slightly more _Take Ivy _approach to the look. After a point this becomes ridiculous however and an exageration. I feel fairly confident in saying no one in _Take Ivy _was darting their shirts. What happened to effortlessness? It is central to the look and is why OTR clothing is not a sin and in fact is often favored on this forum. What's more effortless than buying OTR that fits (approximately but is still comfortable in appearance and actuality) once one has found such products?

There aren't many seasoned veterans of the forum that demand no rules be broken. If on does so with reason and confidence it can look very good. I always respect Trip for instance and always think he looks great despite the fact that he might be wearing darts one day or jeans another. But at some point in his wardrobe rotation he wears all the staples and never attacks the staples.

That is the difference with some of our new posters. If you are openly hostile towards the staples, why are you here? Such a tone makes one immediately suspect, and it is bound to be met with anger.


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## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

Youngster said:


> I though I should start a discussion thread for younger trads, to see how they actually dress...


I think this line from the OP reveals what makes this thread kind of annoying. It would be great if there were a thread "for younger men, to see how they incorporate traditional Ivy clothing into their wardrobe." Then the assumption would be that we're discussing "traditional Ivy clothing," and ways that it is interpreted by the under-30 set.

Instead, we get posters who call themselves, not their clothes, "trad," and then argue that their non-traditional Ivy League clothing must be "trad" because it is being worn by "a trad".

I'll provide a contrast to show what I'm talking about. We might have someone in college write about how he wears J. Press flap-pocket OCBDs with jeans and Weejuns to class. This would be an example of working traditional Ivy League clothing into a modern, context-appropriate wardrobe.

On the other hand, we can have someone write about how he's "a trad" and his slim-fit khakis, Band of Outsiders slim fit shirt, and 2 inch wide tie are how he interprets "trad". There's nothing wrong wtih this kind of contribution, but it has little to do with working traditional Ivy League clothing into a modern wardrobe. Instead, it involves wearing clothing that a designer, who may have been influenced by Ivy among many other sources of inspiration, put together for sale at a fashion store. That's not working traditional Ivy League clothing into a modern wardrobe. That's taking someone else's non-Ivy design and trying to back it into the Ivy League look because it may have been partially inspired by, or share some details of, that look. It is a somewhat fine distinction, but an important one.


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

EastVillageTrad said:


> When I started visiting this forum about 4 years ago it wasn't a place to learn a new way of dressing, it was a place where the like-minded existed.
> 
> Now days people are coming here trying to acquire a "look"... Which isn't the point.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Doctor Damage said:


> Including also those clueless blonde "mean girls" who work in Human Resources and write dress codes based on what their slacker husbands wear while trawling through Rona or Ikea for crap products with which to fix or fill their banal suburban townhouses and improve its resale "value".


Hilarious. I don't know any girls of this sort, but I'm sure they abound.


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## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Brownshoe said:


> It's not really that complicated, is it? If you're a young'n or in school just wear the trad/Ivy/TNSIL stuff whatever without the jacket and tie. You'll look completely normal. And good.
> 
> Right?


Things have changed a bit. For one, there's the shoes. Most of your jacket-and-tie footwear won't bring the right sort of attention on most college campuses. Even the loafer is being whittled away by the boat shoe. It's a more complex situation than it looks like. 



Quay said:


> Indeed. The original proposition is completely fallacious. That "young man's style" which men continue to wear until their undertaker fits them with their final sack suit, OCBD and repp tie is simply a man's style that doesn't see any reason to change all that much as a man ages.


Well... that may be so, but each generation of followers of the look add certain items and drop others. If you look at photos of Trad/Ivy from the 50s, and compare it with Ivy from the 60s, Ivy from the 70s, and Ivy from the 80s, you'll note the family resemblance, but they aren't identical. This continued into the 90s and 00s, and now we have today. I think maybe what's being asked is how followers of the 2010 generation are making it work for them, what they've kept, what they've adapted, what they've resurrected, and what they've sadly retired for another time.

Hey, at least they're interested?  Not only that, they're interested in this look rather than an Italian or English one. I think it's really just trying to figure out how to make the look work in very informal environments without losing the principles of the thing... maybe an intellectual exercise? Increasing level of difficulty... Trad without jackets and ties? Trad without heeled shoes? Trad without collars?


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

Back when I was young and in college (a couple of decades ago, now) , I evolved into an everyday wardrobe of khakis, OCBDs and Bass dirty bucs or Sperry CVOs. I picked up a chambray shirt and madras shorts from J Crew, which I wore to death. I did this through natural inclination combined with Bruce Boyer's _Elegance_, which I picked up on remainder at Joseph-Beth Booksellers. If I had had the Trad forum back then (I didn't even have an email account) who knows what I would have been capable of. It didn't even occur to me to go to a thrift store back then. Oh, the things I could have found!

If a young Trad today wears khakis, OCBDs, bucs and CVOs plus a chambray shirt and madras or khaki shorts he'd be doing pretty well, I'd think. I never much cared for boat shoes, but I did have a pair of blucher mocs. Pick one or either if you like. Thrift a blazer (or buy it in the thrift exchange) add in a repp tie and you're good to go.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

katon said:


> Things have changed a bit. For one, there's the shoes. Most of your jacket-and-tie footwear won't bring the right sort of attention on most college campuses. Even the loafer is being whittled away by the boat shoe. It's a more complex situation than it looks like.


Right, but why would you wear dress shoes if you're not in a jacket and tie or a suit?

Just go with Chucks or boat shoes or desert boots or blucher mocs and you're good.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Not getting off anyone's lawn just yet...


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

^Interesting. I wouldn't mind knowing more about the jacket.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

The jacket looks like a cotton Polo number, which are useful items. This one has a slightly toyish appearance to my eye, being so short. Which isn't a bad thing. It's a kind of witticism on the topic of jackets.


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

What do people think about a tie with a cotton jacket? I think of a cotton jacket more with a polo or open collar buttondown underneath. Thanks for the pics SVB, the trad style in Venice Beach is a noble pursuit. Venice/SM/West LA is one of my favorite places I've ever visited. Dora rules.


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## Brownshoe (Mar 1, 2005)

svb said:


> Not getting off anyone's lawn just yet...


Ha, I was only teasing.

For the record, I like the ensembles in your photos very much, and the slim fit looks great on you.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks! The jacket is from the Gap, actually. I picked it up a couple years ago; normally wouldn't venture into the Gap but I was walking past a store and this caught my eye. It gets a lot of use in my wardrobe but sooner or later I'm going to have to upgrade to something better -- the armholes are far too low. But for a sub-$100 jacket, it's been great. It has 100% natural shoulders, but it also has darts and side vents. My type of combo.

The shirt is a Brooks Brothers OCBD, the pants are J. Crew and the tie is vintage of unknown origin.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Brownshoe said:


> Ha, I was only teasing.


Haha! I missed that you'd actually said "Get off my lawn." I was referring more to just the general sentiment expressed in many of the other replies. But I guess you'd already nailed it! :biggrin2:


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

I know I'm being annoying (sorry), but is there any trad clothing exclusively worn by old men? I've never noticed. Perhaps sock garters, but I've not seen them outside Bing and Bob's movies.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

Pink and Green said:


> I know I'm being annoying (sorry), but is there any trad clothing exclusively worn by old men? I've never noticed. Perhaps sock garters, but I've not seen them outside Bing and Bob's movies.


The point is not that some items are only worn by old men, but that some items are generally made for older men. I was hoping that more advice would go out about which items are made to fit younger men (many traditional clothiers fit their clothes to an older, more filled in body) without always just defaulting to what many decry as hipster imitations. I was also hoping for more advice that focuses on the casual and sportswear aspects; while OCBD, Khakis, Blazer and repp tie may be quintessential, on many campuses today even an untucked OCBD and rumpled khakis will make kids ask if you are dressed up for something. Basically, we should be discussing how to build great causal wardrobes on a student budget, and without sacrificing quality.


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## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Understood. Thanks for that, it will keep things on topic, at least for dingbat Johnny-come-latelys like myself who just wandered in. Much appreciated.


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## jalyon (Dec 6, 2009)

EastVillageTrad said:


> This nails it.
> 
> When I started visiting this forum about 4 years ago it wasn't a place to learn a new way of dressing, it was a place where the like-minded existed.
> 
> Now days people are coming here trying to acquire a "look"... Which isn't the point. We're not here to hand hold you into a new style... that is why we reject the new "feel" here.


I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it seems like you're upset that people want to dress well. Maybe when you came along kids were ingrained with this stuff since birth, but it just isn't that way any more. We are inundated with the wrong way to do it, and are forced to search out the right way. I think there are few better places to do that than right here.

So what if kids come in here searching for a "look". What's more to it than that? Isn't the consensus here after all the "Is ____ trad?" threads that it's just a look, and nothing more? This is gonna sound very standoffish, but does it bother you that trad is moving out from the WASPy set (the only group that really held onto it 70's-00's) and back to a wider audience?


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

A point of criticism on svb's style (but it's really not depending on how one reads it).

I see that he's wearing the _right_ things if one is to consider those things as just words (khakis, repp ties, etc.). But the _right_ words that svb is wearing are still not traditional to American style, IMO. The look is off (but that could certainly be his intent).


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Coleman said:


> A point of criticism on svb's style (but it's really not depending on how one reads it).
> 
> I see that he's wearing the _right_ things if one is to consider those things as just words (khakis, repp ties, etc.). But the _right_ words that svb is wearing are still not traditional to American style, IMO. The look is off (but that could certainly be his intent).


Yep, pretty much.



svb said:


> So the way I (hopefully) make "trad" work for me is by incorporating elements of "trad" -- an oxford shirt, corduroy pants, a pair of brown wingtips -- in a trimmer, more modern silhouette. Ideally, it's the right bit of old and the right bit of new mixed together.


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

^But it's worth pointing out, as I did, for newbs, that your style, while drawing from the traditon, is not very traditional (which in it's own right is not a problem if that's for what one is going).

You don't have the look of any of the past incarnations of the look (which, again, is not a problem in it's own right).

As it is, and on a personal note, I'm not much a fan of your style (but I'll likewise guess your not much of a fan of mine), and for the reasons it doesn't fit with the style in time. To my eye you don't look effortless or classically American, as opposed to Trip English who does break many forum rules (of sorts) and manages to look young but does look effortless and classically American.


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## Pugin (May 15, 2010)

I'm a new forum member and recent college grad. I have some trad instincts, live in a very trad town, and have some of the most conservatively dressed friends around. That said, I don't claim to conform to or defend any orthodoxy. Most of the time I try to go for a look that is slightly more subdued. I'll substitute gray Levis for khakis. I steer clear of Argyle. But if I usually try to go for a less fussy look, I also have no opposition to a well-deployed GTH piece.

Over the past year I lost about fifteen pounds. At the same time, I moved away from slim-fit shirts. This might seem odd, but I came to prefer the contrast and casualness of a thicker shirt on a thinner frame. I don't think people who wear slim shirts should be anathema, but a lot of guys my age seem to have been blinded by fashion to the casual, masculine appeal of a fuller cut on a smaller frame.

In a lot of ways, these are ideal days to be a young man interested in trad dress. I still find a lot of museum quality trad pieces in thrift stores. When I thrift I find things of higher quality, that will be longer lasting, than I can buy anywhere new in town. What I worry about are the coming generations, when all the nice things have been worn out and are gone from the thrift stores. They'll have to pick through a scrap heap of J.Crew and Banana Republic. But the main point is that items that last, and that are worth preserving, will be mostly gone. I can have trad secondhand. But what will they get?

A peek in my closet:

*Jackets:*
-A blue flannel 3/2 sack blazer by long-gone Princeton Clothing Company. Slim fitting and cut for a suppressed waist. (Thrift)
-A green and blue houndstooth, double-vent sack in cashmere by Maurice Sedwell, Savile Row. An amazing piece. Sewn in '95 (Rummage)
-A red and blue striped wool sack, with 3/2 roll by Maurice Sedwell, Savile Row. I've worn this while smoking with friends and to a George Clinton concert. It served admirably at both functions. Sewn in the year of my birth. (Rummage)
-A Blackwatch plaid by long-gone Jack Zeitman tailors of Trenton. Sewn in '66. (Thrift)
-A Donegal tweed sack by Press. This is what I wear to work in the cold months -- my job allows me to dress like a fogey (Rummage)
-An ivory Irish linen sack by Press (Sample sale)
-A non-trad darted double vent blazer with a slight roll, bought through Nick Hilton. (New mtm)

*Shirts:*
-OCBDs by Gitman and Brooks. (Thrift, ebay) 
-A couple Charvet. Amazing shirts. (Thrift)
-A couple Turnbull & Asser, not half bad (Thrift)
-A bleeding madras from O'Connell's
-Some J.Crew numbers from my not-so-distant college days

*Shoes:*
-I mostly wear Alden cap-toe balmorals. I wear these to the office and around town with gray Levis. I like how they are formal without being fussy and look great with jeans.
-I don't care for Topsiders. They look too cute on my smaller feet.
-My Bass Dovers have been shredded from heavy use. I just ebayed some cordovan Alden loafers. Should be a big step up.

*Pants:*
-Gray, flat-front trousers (by Banana Republic, since I can reach it by foot and, occasionally, afford it). I wear these to work.
-Gray Levis 501 jeans. I love these things. I wear these at most other times.
-Khakis by jcrew
-Four-panel pants by Vineyard Vines
-Nantucket reds, of the non-Murray's Toggery variety

*Ties:*
-Lots of thrifted ties
-A skinny modern number by Hermes
-A few by Drakes that I hold dear
-A couple by Pierrepont Hicks
-A navy linen tie by Press
*
Odds and ends:*
-Filson watefowl sweater: I wear this a lot on cold damp days, and it suits someone from a rural area like me. I had the sides taken in on this wide baby.
-A leather bomber jacket by Theory
-A needlepoint belt with foxheads by J.McLaughlin
-A wide, brown leather belt.
-Gray wool socks, made in USA and bought from a local shop


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

I find all this _Kreuzung der Gattungen_ boring. It comes down to this: either you dress in traditional American clothing in the traditional way or you don't. If you don't, then you must acknowledge that you are wearing traditionally-inspired clothing-a la Sid Mashburn-or that you're setting your own style, whatever that is. For instance: slim-fitting shirts are one thing; darts on slim-fitting shirts are quite another. (And since when is "trim" a euphemism for "skinny"?) The "young trads" will whimper, but should consider this: if one was to post a "critique my fit" thread, and had respondents say, "jacket is too short and tight," "shirt is too small," "shoes too big," "pants too short," but then responded, "that's just my youthful trim style", they're missing the point of the trad forum. Anyway, this thread has generally been a yawnfest.


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## svb (Dec 5, 2007)

Pentheos said:


> It comes down to this: either you dress in traditional American clothing in the traditional way or you don't. If you don't, then you must acknowledge that you are wearing traditionally-inspired clothing-a la Sid Mashburn-or that you're setting your own style, whatever that is.


I acknowledge that I am wearing traditionally-inspired clothing.


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## Pugin (May 15, 2010)

Pentheos said:


> I find all this _Kreuzung der Gattungen_ boring.


I see you tolerate more cross-pollination in your language then you do in your dress. +1


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## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

svb said:


> I acknowledge that I am wearing traditionally-inspired clothing.


It's worth pointing out too, again for newbs and passers-by and since you acknowledge it, that that is not the main focus of this forum, to pick the bones of tradition for one's own purposes.

This forum is about celebrating and cultivating the tradition in all of its classic and traditional forms through words and actions (wearing the stuff being the action). Those stopping by for inspiration but hoping to spin it their own way are certainly welcome and doing so is not an offence in its own right, but, again, it is not the primary (nor should it be in my opinion) focus or message of the forum.


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

Nice post and list, Pugin. I have a pretty similar approach, and gravitate to the subdued. No opposition here to a "well-deployed" GTH item either. Also gaining more appreciation for a baggier shirt. The gray 501's sound interesting. I wear topsiders in summer, though. A couple of my favorite items I frequently reach for:

* McGeorge shetland sweaters - purchased from O'Connell's. There's a deep red/burgundy one I wear a lot. These are great sweaters for winter. I'm guessing the house brand ones are pretty good too. I haven't been a fan of the shaggy dogs of recent years.

* Cord jeans (needlecord?) from J Crew, chocolate brown - I wear these casually in fall and winter, and like the color esp. paired with blue shirts and sweaters.

* Filson Yukon Wool Weekender jacket - in the "filson green" color. Plenty warm enough as winter casual outerwear where I live.

* Broadcloth sportshirts - for spring and summer when an OCBD is too hot. A light blue gingham, a Royal Stewart-ish tartan, a blue butcher stripe, amongst others. I'll wear the gingham and butcher with a coat and tie as necessary.

* Madras tie - hand-me down, 3 in wide or so, in a red/blue/yellow white pattern. From a defunct DC men's shop. With a white shirt and blazer it's good for spring and summer without getting too crazy.

* Emblematic lion crest tie - navy, from J Press

Any advice on thrift shops in Princeton? I'm up there a couple times a year to visit, but my thrifting has been limited to LPs at the P-Rex. I'm a 44L in case you don't want me snapping up the goods in your size up there...

At the intersection of George Clinton and Navy Blazer, PCU is a classic movie: 

Bantam: A casual shoe for yachting.
Rand: What are you trying to figure out, B.D.? Who could I be? "What is a blucher?" 

I didn't realize this wasn't exactly accurate until I came across Ask Andy.


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## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

In the spirit of this thread, I recommend Pointer (https://www.pointerbrand.com/) to all young would-be trads. It is USA made, and of solid quality, all for a price well below that of Carhartt or Levi's. Their pants are great for the weekend, and I find that ducks can be a nice change from the khaki/jeans rotation. Also, their barn coat can be a "barbour on a budget" for anyone who does not need total waterproofing, or who simply cannot afford one (ie, most students). Either way, their wares are a great deal, and a far better (and USA made) alternative to many of the very similar styles offered by Lands End or LL bean. 
Just steer clear of the overalls unless you live on a farm.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

Interesting thread, something that I don't often think about these trad discussions.

Enjoyed the idea that Coleman and SVT are opposed in matters of trad taste. Makes perfect sense to me, but I imagine to the vast majority of even the sartorally knowledgeable people in the world they'd be unmistakable.

(by the way, I'm strongly opposed to darts, but if anyone gets an exception it's SVT)



EastVillageTrad said:


> True.
> 
> I not would say the ULC has that much of an "older" crowd. Runs the gammet.
> 
> ...


EVT, I have similar reactions to neo-trad/hipster-trad people.

But really, what's the difference between some college kid in 2010 wearing trad-influenced clothing because it's fashionable and a college kid in 1985 wearing trad-influenced stuff because it was fashionable?

I don't know why one irks me more than the other.


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## bourbon51 (Jul 21, 2008)

This thread looked like a good one to make a first post.

IHMO as long as it fits well I don't think it looks old man-ish. I'm thinking the only reason I ever associated this look with older men is because no stores ever marketed it towards younger people while I was growing up. Honestly, the chubby middle aged guy with the oversized polo didn't exactly make me want to run out and "cop his style." You didn't see guys on TV, magazines, and in the movies wearing boat shoes and OCBDs.

I also think it's been awhile since classic american staples have been available at a decent price and more importantly in a fit that didn't look like a tent in places that most younger people would find convenient. Although ever since the general classic american look has come back into popularity with stores like J Crew we actually have the option now. It's also obvious that places like Brooks are now trying to capture a younger market too. 

Anyways, my point is that now that we can actually get stuff that fits well and is readily available, many more younger guys are realizing they prefer a good, classic look.

Hell I go to freaking ASU (not exactly the trad mecca) and I barely ever get comments from anyone, even when half the people around me are decked out in Ed Hardy. So I don't think there's this crazy "people will think you are weird/girls won't talk to you" thing going on anymore. As long as you keep it at the level of casual of those around you I think you'll be okay. And avoid gold buttons.


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## Joe Beamish (Mar 21, 2008)

A slim look is one way of "saying" you're not cluelessly outdated in the way you dress. All my favorite posters (I mean their styles) hold to a trim tailored look in varying ways and degrees. 

Even a thin tie is a way of saying "I'm not an American Legion dude in his 60s-70s having a great time at a hotel conference. I'm not a shriner."

The culture insists on identifying tailored clothes in everyday contexts with an unthinkingly conservative, stodgy mentality. Thinness and trimness in general have become a kind of antidote to the halo. A way of saying, "I know what I'm doing here, bub."

I wish we could keep the gold buttons at least sometimes, though. I've noticed the really good dressers (I mean the ones I like most) do keep them.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

The two posts above that just reopened this thread are nicely put. That's you, Joe, and welcome to Bourbon. The bumping of the thread drew my attention to it. I was away throughout May and had never seen it. It is a good thread, agreeably written with thought, care and a fair amount of creativity. I am not of the age to participate. Nor am I trad. But this was well put together and it's good to see this anachronism is kept alive with fresher blood.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I've been quietly following this thread for a while and just wanted to chime in.

I agree that AmTrad, Ivy League, preppy, TNSIL, or whatever you want to call it style is pretty ageless. Even older men were wearing trimmer jackets and trousers way back when. It was the style.

Now, Youngster was clearly being facetious about the whole "old man's clothes" thing. Look at it in the context of the rest of his post and there's really no reason to get offended or call names.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

Joe Beamish said:


> A slim look is one way of "saying" you're not cluelessly outdated in the way you dress. All my favorite posters (I mean their styles) hold to a trim tailored look in varying ways and degrees.
> 
> Even a thin tie is a way of saying "I'm not an American Legion dude in his 60s-70s having a great time at a hotel conference. I'm not a shriner."
> 
> ...


I'm not calling myself a good dresser by saying this, but I do keep the gold buttons and I'm 23. I don't get any cross looks or bad words because of it. So gold button away


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## MarkfromMD (Nov 5, 2008)

Youngtrad - The picture you posted on page one of this thread appears to be more preppy than trad. I don't have a problem with this and I dress in a similar manner when attending horse races. I just think the distinction is worth noting. 

I am in my early twenties and I don't think there is any need to make modifications to trad philosophy in order to tailor it to a young audience. My understanding of the whole trad lifestyle and way of dressing has nothing to do with age. Local high schools provide some of the best examples of trad dress. 

If you feel like you are dressing like an old man then you probably are and you need to stop. If you feel relaxed and comfortable in your clothing then you are dressing appropriately.


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## P Hudson (Jul 19, 2008)

hookem12387 said:


> I'm not calling myself a good dresser by saying this, but I do keep the gold buttons and I'm 23. I don't get any cross looks or bad words because of it. So gold button away


I'm a bit more than double your age, so don't have much right of reply on this thread, but I also keep the gold buttons. More accurately I should say that I would never change something that is inherent to a garment--the only alterations I accept relate to fit. Anything else would seem to defy the "trad motto" or something.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

MarkfromMD: Well, the whole AmTrad movement includes elements of preppy, Ivy League, and New England sailboating clothes. I don't see how his picture is irrelevant to the discussion.

I suppose I was being needlessly flippant when I said "or whatever you want to call it." However, I still maintain that the Ivy League and preppy styles are in their _pure_ forms as ageless as the whole Trad spectrum... if that makes any sense.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

WarrenB said:


> On the Beach in Bonita Beach, FL
> 
> Kentucky Football Game


sweet 9" over-the-knee-might-as-well-be-capris shorts breh. is that a SoPro "FratHat"?! righteous brah. for realz though, stay away from PRL, VV, Southern Tide/Marsh/Proper/Duck/Horse/Dove/Ranch/Lake/Ocean/Whiskey/Beer/Sorostitues/Z71Tahoes

Dibs on the Southern Z71Tahoe brand. How fratty would that be to have a Z71 2dr Tahoe on my polo shirt?!

stick to logoless brands such as BB, LLBean, Lands End (yes I know BB has a logo, but many of their shirts don't) there's nothing more than I hate than someone that is double horsing i.e. PRL hat and PRL shirt. looks like some tool who thinks they look acceptable because they are wearing a "preppy/fratty/tradly" brand logo all over himself.



OldSchoolCharm said:


> you need to lose the hat with a sweater.


chill out broseph, he's at a football game, pretty sure hats are fair game, hes probably 22 for crying out loud. so long as that is not a fitted hat...

-Vanderbilt Alum


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

oh and on the topic of these Southern ______ brands, have you ever read the story about Southern Tide?

"The idea for Southern Tide was born not on the coast of South Carolina where founder, Allen Stephenson spent his summers, but on a trip to Italy where inspiration was at every turn. From historical architecture and couture clothing to high-performance sports cars, he noticed common threads - exceptional craftsmanship, clean lines, fine quality, and classic design. These elements combined with Allen's heritage became Southern Tide."

Oh really? You had to travel to Italy to create a logo that would appeal to "Southern Fratty Types" such as a fish (because we all know us fratty southern types like to fish) and make it cute enough so that girls like it too? Wow, I coulda sworn you saw Vineyard Vines and Southern Proper put a cute whale (representing the prep Northeast - Martha's Vineyard) and a black lab (because all fratstars hunt with black labs and chicks dig dudes with dogs) respectively and said "Hey why don't I copy that!"

The guy looks like an asswipe by the way.

click on the homepage, look at all those yachts. Seriosuly though, if I could drop a few mil on a boat like that, I'm definitely not going to be wearing your "Italian" inspired "Skipjack" polos.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

tdecast said:


> sweet 9" over-the-knee-might-as-well-be-capris shorts breh. is that a SoPro "FratHat"?! righteous brah. for realz though, stay away from PRL, VV, Southern Tide/Marsh/Proper/Duck/Horse/Dove/Ranch/Lake/Ocean/Whiskey/Beer/Sorostitues/Z71Taho
> Dibs on the Southern Z71Tahoe brand. How fratty would that be to have a Z71 2dr Tahoe on my polo shirt?!


One of the reasons I'm not 22 anymore, besides having no control over it, is that I didn't understand any of what was just said up there.


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## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

tdecast said:


> The guy looks like an asswipe by the way.


That part I do get.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

^^^^
heck, I'm 19, and even I don't understand this response.


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

Youngster said:


> barn coat can be a "barbour on a budget" for anyone who does not need total waterproofing, or who simply cannot afford one (ie, most students).


I bought my first Barbour, a polarquilt one from STP for less than $200 when I was in college and then I bought a brand new Beaufort from ebay for about $220 off eBay. Have some patience and you'll find a good deal. Just like someone's signature on this forum says "When you buy quality, you only cry once"


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## 4dgt90 (Dec 2, 2009)

ZachGranstrom said:


> ^^^^
> heck, I'm 19, and even I don't understand this response.


I'm referring to all these new brands starting up within the past few years that are capitalizing on the whole Southern Frat thing. Southern Proper, Southern Marsh, Southern Tide are all real brands with a black lab, a duck, and a fish respectively as their logos. All the other things I named are things that represent the "fratty" southern lifestyle. You probably don't get it because you're from Washington state... sorry

and yes, there was lots of sarcasm. and i was giving him crap for having long shorts and a hat from Southern Proper.


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## ZachGranstrom (Mar 11, 2010)

Tdecast: Thanks for the clarification.


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## Pleasant McIvor (Apr 14, 2008)

tdecast said:


> sweet 9" over-the-knee-might-as-well-be-capris shorts breh. is that a SoPro "FratHat"?! righteous brah. for realz though, stay away from PRL, VV, Southern Tide/Marsh/Proper/Duck/Horse/Dove/Ranch/Lake/Ocean/Whiskey/Beer/Sorostitues/Z71Tahoes
> 
> Dibs on the Southern Z71Tahoe brand. How fratty would that be to have a Z71 2dr Tahoe on my polo shirt?!
> 
> ...


Yikes.

Dare I point out that the anti-fraternity tirade is as much of a cliche as the clothing you ridicule? The man's comfortable, enjoying himself, and takes more care of his appearance than most people. Your vitriol is far more offensive than his dress.


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## Ron_A (Jun 5, 2007)

tdecast said:


> sweet 9" over-the-knee-might-as-well-be-capris shorts breh. is that a SoPro "FratHat"?! righteous brah. for realz though, stay away from PRL, VV, Southern Tide/Marsh/Proper/Duck/Horse/Dove/Ranch/Lake/Ocean/Whiskey/Beer/Sorostitues/Z71Tahoes
> 
> Dibs on the Southern Z71Tahoe brand. How fratty would that be to have a Z71 2dr Tahoe on my polo shirt?!


His madras shorts and Southern Proper hat seem perfectly fine, to me, and much nicer than what most 20-somethings wear to the beach. And, it's my understanding that Southern Tide actually makes a pretty nice polo shirt...That certainly seems to be the consensus among those on the forum who own one.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Pleasant McIvor said:


> Yikes.
> 
> Dare I point out that the anti-fraternity tirade is as much of a cliche as the clothing you ridicule? The man's comfortable, enjoying himself, and takes more care of his appearance than most people. Your vitriol is far more offensive than his dress.


Seconded, and since when are 9" shorts close to capris? They hit just above the knee on most men.


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

tde cast probably got a lot of those words from a website called frattinghard.. it's a site that talks about the "frat" lifestyle in a light hearted manner. Ive seen people from Vandy with these brands as well as a wildcat. Sounds like to me that tdecast didnt get a bid from the frat he wanted to get in to and is sour about the whole situation. Or maybee he doesnt like warrenb due to the fact he is a Wildcat and UK beat Vandy at Vandy by only 2 points in basketball or when UK killed Vandy last season in football. Im only 5'7 and 9 inch shorts fall right below my knee, nowhere near a capri.


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## YoungTrad (Jan 29, 2010)

MarkfromMD said:


> Youngtrad - The picture you posted on page one of this thread appears to be more preppy than trad. I don't have a problem with this and I dress in a similar manner when attending horse races. I just think the distinction is worth noting.
> 
> I am in my early twenties and I don't think there is any need to make modifications to trad philosophy in order to tailor it to a young audience. My understanding of the whole trad lifestyle and way of dressing has nothing to do with age. Local high schools provide some of the best examples of trad dress.
> 
> If you feel like you are dressing like an old man then you probably are and you need to stop. If you feel relaxed and comfortable in your clothing then you are dressing appropriately.


Yeah I guess my style wouldnt be so much tnsil trad in that photo but I consider seersucker, madras and bucks "southern trad."


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## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

tdecast said:


> oh and on the topic of these Southern ______ brands, have you ever read the story about Southern Tide?
> 
> "The idea for Southern Tide was born not on the coast of South Carolina where founder, Allen Stephenson spent his summers, but on a trip to Italy where inspiration was at every turn. From historical architecture and couture clothing to high-performance sports cars, he noticed common threads - exceptional craftsmanship, clean lines, fine quality, and classic design. These elements combined with Allen's heritage became Southern Tide."
> 
> ...


Agree, but why 'hate the player'. He's laughing in Italy on a yacht with the blonde and brunette.


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## Corcovado (Nov 24, 2007)

I think this is a very fine example of casual clothing that is appropriate for the occasion, which appears to be a night-time football game in cooler weather. What could be less pretentious than wearing team colors and a school logo hat to a football game? 

In closing, as an alumnus of the university in question, I'd like to add "Go Big Blue!"


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## absent_prof (Apr 20, 2011)

Resurrecting this thread rather than starting a new one with tales of hope for all young trads. The more trad I dress (including suits, ties, pipe smoking and hats even for just going to college) the more positive attention I get (including female). It has got me a bit part in a movie, at least six dates with girls, and half a dozen networking/ business contacts I would not have got if people hadn't been impressed by my clothes.

I don't know if a shy of 33 counts of young, but I haven't had the negative attention that so many people here report. I think the key is if you're going to do it, do it with confidence and people respond.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Absolutely right. Even my friends (who rib me for just about everything else) have never had anything negative to say about my style.


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