# Summer Jobs



## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

Front page of NY Times has a long article today, about the fact that there aren't many summer jobs for teenagers.

This is a shame, because low skill summer jobs are a great way for teenagers to figure out how the real world works, and that it is a meritocracy. Most of us did hard manual labor, in those years, essentially doing seasonal work, that others didn't want to do.

Also, being idle during those years presents a whole other set of problems.

The Times says that summer jobs have declined rapidly since the 70s. Also, 21% of those that can't find summer jobs are African-American. 

Naturally, the Times didn't cover it, but the main constraint, in addition to the economy, is a minimum wage that has priced unskilled teenagers completely out of the market.

The next time that you hear a local politician running on the fiction that he/she will get the minimum wage raised, is essentially doing the bidding of union contributors, whose contracts are tied to the minimum wage. 

You will hear that a family of 4 can't live on what the breadwinner would make under the current minimum wage. Very true. However, every objective study of the demographics shows that those earning the minimum wage are essentially teenagers, trying to work their way up the economic ladder.

Once the lower rungs get sawed off of the economic ladder, this pushes us further into a society with a permanent underclass that have been the products of a failed public education system that graduates 50% of those that enter, and has priced them out of the market for entry level jobs.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I just finished picking up 300 chairs for a party this A.M. after unloading, uncover, set and attach cushions yesterday. My boss is Steve, a affable chinese-american from Texas. My coworker, another Chris is a big black american who was a talented cameraman until Hollywood went to Canada and Australia.A new guy was Ross, a second year college student.The house maid who let us in was latino. The groundsman mowing the yard was latino. Everybody at the nearby Jack in the Box we had a quick breakfast at together was latino.The crew picking up the other rental tables, china etc were latino. I pulled into a gas station afterwards with my pay. The attached carwash was manned by latinos.I pulled into my apt complex after passing JAFFRA cosmetics, a place I worked summers until a south american conglomerate bought it. Everybody who works there now is latino. I almost hit the apartment porter, a latino they hired instead of me. He was talking to the latino tree service employees and stepped out in front of me without looking. All of these were summer jobs not dissimilar to what I did in school. They didn't disappear. They just moved to Mexico in evrything but name, like our industries. God bless latinos, risking arrest to come do jobs in Aztlan us lazy americanos won't.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

Yes, it is quite remarkable how eager foreigners are to come here-- so they can work completely outside our socialist labor laws. They seem to be doing pretty well-- my experience here in Mississippi is that they do a lot better than our own native poor.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

The employers' perception goes something like this:

Natives: Lazy, unreliable, steal from you, come to work drunk or high. Feign injury to draw benefits, accuse you of discrimination. Does poor work.

Illegals: More reliable, does better work. Costs 1/2 as much to employ, even if you pay him 50% more than an American.


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*There is no job Americans won't do - for the right price.*

Couldn't the argument be made that teenagers (who all have cell phones, iPods, etc) can't be bothered to work for the low minimum wage (which is, when adjusted, lower than it was in our youth). I'd also argue that millenials _are_ entitled little buggers not up for manual labor.

I generally agree. If you want to work mowing lawns, painting houses or even food service, you'd best speak Spanish. People starting work for the first time as college graduates are generally deficient in meeting basic expectations of showing up on time, dressing appropriately, communicating effectively. Welfare recipients used to have the refrain "I ain't gonna flip burgers at McDonald's" when that was just the proving ground that they needed.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

I haven't seen many places even paying minimum wage. Even places like Walmart and McDonalds pay like $6.50/hr.

As for no summer jobs for kids? I don't know - I found one just fine.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

I don't believe there is a shortage of jobs...I think there is a shortage of hardworking teenagers...

Where I live these kids are disrespectful, spoiled brats...babysitting out here pays between $15 and $25/hr but kids won't do it because it hinders their social life - Give me a break!!

I haven't seen a kid paint a house, mow a lawn, shovel snow, plant flowers - do ANY hard labor since I was in high school...in my neighborhood the parents are all outside doing the work while the kids are inside on their computers, cell phones, in front of the tv, at the mall or hanging out with friends...the concept of "helping" is out of the realm of possibility.

I have numerous jobs around my house I could really use help with and would be happy to pay a teenager to do - whenever I suggest it to my friends with kids old enough to help, they offer to send their husbands because the kids don't want to work...

I can't even find a reliable dog walker - first, the kids think picking up dog crap is beneath them and won't do it, or the parents end up walking the dog!


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

TheWardrobeGirl said:


> *I don't believe there is a shortage of jobs...I think there is a shortage of hardworking teenagers...*
> 
> Where I live these kids are disrespectful, spoiled brats...babysitting out here pays between $15 and $25/hr but kids won't do it because it hinders their social life - Give me a break!!
> 
> ...


I agree. I used to move furniture during the summers. Those jobs were pretty easy to get. A lot of kids I knew detasseled corn. I tried that once, but it wasn't for me. I enjoyed moving furniture, I built a lot of muscle working there and it paid pretty well too.

Just off the top of my head, these are some of the jobs my friends or I had as summer work: 
landscaping
furniture mover
fast food 
video store or movie theater employee
golf course labor
construction labor
pizza delivery
retail stores
farm labor
babysitter
auto porter
bank teller


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

TheWardrobeGirl said:


> I don't believe there is a shortage of jobs...I think there is a shortage of hardworking teenagers...
> 
> Where I live these kids are disrespectful, spoiled brats...babysitting out here pays between $15 and $25/hr but kids won't do it because it hinders their social life - Give me a break!!
> 
> ...


Very accurate assessment.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

One of my favorite summer jobs was working as a golf caddy...I was the first and only female caddy at my club (almost 20 years later, I STILL don't think they have had another girl!)...I made a TON of money...because a girl caddying at the time was so rare, I was booked WEEKS ahead of time and the guys treated me like gold because they knew I had pick of the litter who I wanted to caddy for (back then, women weren't allowed on the course before noon so I always caddied for the guys unless I went out twice - I was usually one of the first groups out at 7 AM, had a paycheck worth a days work by lunchtime)...I have been golfing since I was 9 so I knew the rules and my responsibilities, I was attentive, always on time and did a great job...I stayed fit, got a nice tan and met some fabulous people - I would HIGHLY recommend that job to a teenager.


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## Relayer (Nov 9, 2005)

My first money-making effort was searching the local ditches for coke bottles to return for the deposit of 2¢ each. 

Find five bottles and I could buy my own coke. 

Find eight bottles and I could buy a coke and a Butternut candy bar.

Shortly after that I began dragging my father's lawn mower around the neighborhood, asking at each home if I could cut their grass (generally, about 1/3 acre lots) for them. My price: $1.00.

My first job outside of my early entrepreneurial efforts was in a pet store. I was so happy when they told me that I would indeed get the minimum wage, $1.60/hr.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

TheWardrobeGirl said:


> One of my favorite summer jobs was working as a golf caddy...I was the first and only female caddy at my club (almost 20 years later, I STILL don't think they have had another girl!)...I made a TON of money...because a girl caddying at the time was so rare, I was booked WEEKS ahead of time and the guys treated me like gold because they knew I had pick of the litter who I wanted to caddy for (back then, women weren't allowed on the course before noon so I always caddied for the guys unless I went out twice - I was usually one of the first groups out at 7 AM, had a paycheck worth a days work by lunchtime)...I have been golfing since I was 9 so I knew the rules and my responsibilities, I was attentive, always on time and did a great job...I stayed fit, got a nice tan and met some fabulous people - I would HIGHLY recommend that job to a teenager.


My husband did that as a teen and made a bundle. I worked in restaurants and made a great deal more than the minimum wage, factoring in tip sharing.

I strongly believe having a summer job of some kind is really good for teenagers, whether they "need" the money or not. Almost all of them are going to be full-time workers at some point, so learning good habits and about employer expectations is key.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

I think the bigger problem is that for whatever reason our society has decided that everybody needs to go to college and that a person working with his hands is a bad thing.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> I haven't seen many places even paying minimum wage. Even places like Walmart and McDonalds pay like $6.50/hr.


or even Pathmark,they pay between 8 and 8.25 an hour.


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

marlinspike said:


> I think the bigger problem is that for whatever reason our society has decided that everybody needs to go to college and that a person working with his hands is a bad thing.


Right on! Our higher edu. system has screwed up a large number of people that are struggling, unhappily,in white collar jobs, that would be very successful electricians, plumbers, etc.


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## trentblase (May 14, 2008)

Intrepid said:


> Right on! Our higher edu. system has screwed up a large number of people that are struggling, unhappily,in white collar jobs, that would be very successful electricians, plumbers, etc.


In the year 2000, automation and artificial intelligence has made every job obsolete except plumbing.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Intrepid said:


> Right on! Our higher edu. system has screwed up a large number of people that are struggling, unhappily,in white collar jobs, that would be very successful electricians, plumbers, etc.


It also drives up the cost of skilled labor due to low supply.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Howard said:


> or even Pathmark,they pay between 8 and 8.25 an hour.


I work for $8/hr just to have job experience in something other than computer fields to show I'm not a computer nerd who wants to spend the rest of my life programming.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

trentblase said:


> In the year 2000, automation and artificial intelligence has made every job obsolete except plumbing.


Yes, like transmission specialist, which pays a meager $100k+ because it has been made obsolete by technology. Or carpentry. Heck, even the tree surgeon my dad uses is a member of the local country club.


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

brokencycle said:


> It also drives up the cost of skilled labor due to low supply.


Brings up an interesting point in our current zeitgeist. In many cases, young people are pushed in directions that they really aren't suited for, but end up there because of parental pressure.

In our community, there is a lot of parental pressure for kids to get in the "right"schools, for the simple reason that the parents want that school decal on the back of the car.

There is also a lot of parental pressure for kids to get into college, and to get some kind of a fairly worthless degree, because of parental pressure.

Contrast the quality of life that some of these kids enjoy, vs. the people that you run into, that are skilled technicians.

Everyone that owns a house has a prized list of technicians that they have used in the past, and rely on. Our experience is that these people are really into self actualization, are very poised, interesting people that have far better financial futures than many of the people that drag themselves to the commuter train every week day at 5:30am; wondering if they will be a part of the next corporate downsizing.

After the return commute, often, a couple of shooters are necessary to avoid thinking about having to go trough the same drill, tomorrow.

Not universally true, obviously. The secret to any happy career is to find work that you love so much that you would gladly do at no charge, and then find that someone is willing to pay you for it. Some have discovered this. I suspect that most haven't.

As was stated earlier, the price of skilled labor has risen dramatically, in the US. We need to be on very good terms with the people that are skilled building technicians, and get on their schedules, way in advance, because of the amount work that they can choose from.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

I think part of the problem is so many get useless degrees at college. I'm in engineering myself, and in state tuition at UW - Madison is ~$7000/year. I couldn't imagine spending $28000 on an english degree that doesn't really get you anyway.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

brokencycle said:


> I work for $8/hr just to have job experience in something other than computer fields to show I'm not a computer nerd who wants to spend the rest of my life programming.


Is this part time or full time?


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Howard said:


> Is this part time or full time?


During the school year, I work part-time at JAB selling clothes, and I got started on a lame training pay. When I go back in the fall, I'll actually get commission, which will probably work out to be about the same. =(


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

brokencycle said:


> During the school year, I work part-time at JAB selling clothes, and I got started on a lame training pay. When I go back in the fall, I'll actually get commission, which will probably work out to be about the same. =(


I'd think you would do better in the fall with the holiday season coming up...no?


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Laxplayer said:


> I'd think you would do better in the fall with the holiday season coming up...no?


Hopefully, I am pretty good, and I normally work weekends, so that helps.

JAB does a commission with an hourly rate (lower than $8/hr) as a floor.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

brokencycle said:


> Hopefully, I am pretty good, and I normally work weekends, so that helps.
> 
> JAB does a commission with an hourly rate (lower than $8/hr) as a floor.


Do you have a draw? I sold shoes on commission at one time, and it was fine unless you got behind on your draw. Big sale days and holidays always helped, but it was hard to stay ahead during the slow periods.


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

brokencycle said:


> *I think part of the problem is so many get useless degrees at college.* I'm in engineering myself, and in state tuition at UW - Madison is ~$7000/year. I couldn't imagine spending $28000 on an english degree that doesn't really get you anyway.


You are right, the issue is not college education in itself but a case of people going to college to get degrees that are not worth the paper they are written on all just in the name of going to college.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Intrepid said:


> Right on! Our higher edu. system has screwed up a large number of people that are struggling, unhappily,in white collar jobs, that would be very successful electricians, plumbers, etc.


I agree to an extent, but if my son wanted to be a plumber or carpenter, I would suggest he go to college and study business first to help him later if he decided to start his own company, or to move up the ladder later on. One of my good friends got his degree before doing a carpenter's apprenticeship, and is now a very successful project manager. His company just moved him to Denver to head up a 6 year project.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

VS said:


> I strongly believe having a summer job of some kind is really good for teenagers, whether they "need" the money or not. Almost all of them are going to be full-time workers at some point, so learning good habits and about employer expectations is key.


I never had a summer job until I got a real job and had to work in the summer. And it was horrible.

I much preferred wading around the river, riding horses, chasing girls on my bicycle around town, swimming, jumping off bridges, hiking, laying around in the hammock doing nothing, and getting wet in the rain, to being told to do something boring.

The self professed goal of quite a few grown men being: not having to work for a living, I don't see why the pleasure should be denied to the young.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Bogdanoff said:


> I never had a summer job until I got a real job and had to work in the summer. And it was horrible.
> 
> I much preferred wading around the river, riding horses, chasing girls on my bicycle around town, swimming, jumping off bridges, hiking, laying around in the hammock doing nothing, and getting wet in the rain, to being told to do something boring.
> 
> The self professed goal of quite a few grown men being: not having to work for a living, I don't see why the pleasure should be denied to the young.


I'm hoping to retire early and spend my summers doing things just like that!

Everybody kind of hates working in the summer. I'm not sure how kids who attend year-round school feel about it later.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Laxplayer said:


> Do you have a draw? I sold shoes on commission at one time, and it was fine unless you got behind on your draw. Big sale days and holidays always helped, but it was hard to stay ahead during the slow periods.


I am not sure what that means, but I don't think so. We get payed every week, so if one week you don't make enough in commission you get the hourly rate.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

brokencycle said:


> I am not sure what that means, but I don't think so. We get payed every week, so if one week you don't make enough in commission you get the hourly rate.


We had to sell so much per day before the commission part kicked in. For example...$1000 worth of shoes per day for a full time employee and then commission on anything above that amount. If we sold only $800 one day we needed to sell $1200 the next day. Every pay period (two weeks) it would reset and we'd start all over.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

brokencycle said:


> During the school year, I work part-time at JAB selling clothes, and I got started on a lame training pay. When I go back in the fall, I'll actually get commission, which will probably work out to be about the same. =(


As for me,Pathmark pays us 8 dollars an hour,if working time and a half we get paid 8 or more for those extra hours.

For the other people that are there,they are full time with benefits.That's why it's good to be in the Union.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

Laxplayer said:


> We had to sell so much per day before the commission part kicked in. For example...$1000 worth of shoes per day for a full time employee and then commission on anything above that amount. If we sold only $800 one day we needed to sell $1200 the next day. Every pay period (two weeks) it would reset and we'd start all over.


No, they just pay us either a commission or hourly rate, whichever is higher, so if I sell $1000 worth of stuff, I get like $60. If I only worked one hour that week, I would get the $60. If I worked 40 hours, I would get about $260 (hourly rate).


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## chatsworth osborne jr. (Feb 2, 2008)

*leisure is wasted on the young*



Bogdanoff said:


> The self professed goal of quite a few grown men being: not having to work for a living, I don't see why the pleasure should be denied to the young.


Except for the truly poor, summer jobs are not about eking out a living, they are for disposable income. The problem is that parents provide too much disposable income. I know my summer earnings as a child bought extravagances that I wouldn't splurge on today with my increased purchasing power.
Also, I totally agree with the bogus 'necessity' of a college degree (see the class thread on why it is such a middle-class prerogative). I was forced through college and now am called an engineer, but do nothing that a decent vo-tech program wouldn't have prepared me for.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

brokencycle said:


> No, they just pay us either a commission or hourly rate, whichever is higher, so if I sell $1000 worth of stuff, I get like $60. If I only worked one hour that week, I would get the $60. If I worked 40 hours, I would get about $260 (hourly rate).


What would your take home pay be?


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

I dunno. I've only worked under my training pay, so I just know what I get for that, which is a higher hourly rate than after I can get commission.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Back in the 90's I had a Summer job working for the Summer Youth Employment Program for kids who want to work and I needed working papers in order for me to start the process.So they started me off working in a cafeteria doing maintainence.And this was minimum wage at the time.


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