# Trad Transportion



## Markh58 (Jan 21, 2005)

I was wondering about my choice of transportation. I've recently been shopping for a re-built 1988-91 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, "The Woody". 
I've always loved the look of the GW. Especially with my labs hanging out of the back. What are the thoughts on "Trad Transportation"? If anyone owns a Woody I'd appreciate your opinion their reliability, cost of up-keep, trustworthy dealership for purchase etc...


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Welcome! I recently purchased an '88 woody, and am having some body repairs done. Havent had it long, so cant comment on long term issues, but I think i'm going to be pleased, not to mention that they very Trad looking, unique and built like tanks!

Does one see them in the southern US very much? Guess I figured with past discussions they were mainly NE Trad-mobiles!

As for purchasing one, if it is restored gems you are looking for, try Wagonmaster.com. My situation demanded immediate transportation, so mine is a diamond in the rough!


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

I see them from time to time.


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## mfj20th (Dec 25, 2005)

*Grd Wagoneer*

I am the proud owner of a fully restored '89 GW, built by Norbert at www.grandwagoneer.com One of the coolest guys and best websites around...The woody is great...I have a '48 Merc Woody as well.

The GW gets a lot of attention and they are really interesting wagons...nealry fully handmade and very expensive at the time they were offered, over $30K at the time, which made them one of the most expensive domestic offerings. The engine is a little light on HP, but very torquey...I am a fan, if oyu can find a good one, like what Norbert builds--jump on it.
MJ


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

They are great looking cars. What other cars would be trad?


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## Markh58 (Jan 21, 2005)

Great to hear that the G. Wagoneer is considered "Trad". I've always felt more comfortable in an Jeep or Land Rover type vehicle. As for
G. Wagoneers in the South. My experience is that they are very popular in my home town of Charleston, SC. Before my purchase I'd love to hear from current owners. I've got an appt with Leon at Wagnomasters and Jeff at Wagoneerworld in April.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

anglophile23 said:


> They are great looking cars. What other cars would be trad?


Volvo 240
Peugeot 505S
Fiat 124 Spyder 
BMW 1600 or 2002 
1984 Oldsmobile Delta 88 that's never been through a carwash but is still presentable.
1967 Rolls Royce butter yellow/brown leather license plate "SNOB" (seen on Michigan Avenue in Chicago a few years back)
MGB
Austin Healey 3000

Of course if you any (or all) of these you'll still need a reliable daily driver so that's where the Wagoneer comes in.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

A bicycle is pretty T.


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

Pre-GM Saab 9000 (or 900, if you're under 40).


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

As for reliability, I have read great things of this era Jeeps vs. the newer-Chrysler owned versions. Before I purchased mine, someone offered the seller a decent amount of money only for the engine and transmission! That says something right there!


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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

*Which Auto ?*

A lot of good advice here, from those that have had Jeeps, et al.

You might also think about this. If you buy a car from the inside out (what you need it for), rather than from the outside in (what others think of the car), you will probably be happy with it for as long as you own it.

Over the years at AAAT, you will find as many answers, as you find those that post, eg:

The iconic leader that started this forum had an old Benz, and was considering a Ford 500, the last time I looked.

One of my friends here has a Benz diesel, with 150,000 miles on it, and can't visualize why anyone would want a new car.

A lot of my other friends here drive very old Volvos, that have more rust spots than paint,and a back seat has been shreaded by a dog, that is long gone. Replacements don't seem to be on the horizon. (Probably what is left of a McGovern for President sticker on the bumper.)

In Ct. (50 inches of snow a year) we had a Jeep to get to the airport, and a Volvo wagon, for non snow use.

Just got a Volvo V70 because of the need to haul a large dog, plus fit enough stuff in the back to last for a month during the summer.

Many experts here,with as many views as you want. However, it all seems to boil down to what you really want the car for, and what your personal taste dictates.

Just like everything else you own,if you will digest the experience of others, and then follow your own good judgement, and you can't go wrong.

Good luck!


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

At the risk of getting this moved to the Interchange, we should keep the discussion clothing related. So, what kind of clothing does one wear when stepping out of a Grand Wagoneer?


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

mfj20th said:


> I am the proud owner of a fully restored '89 GW, built by Norbert at www.grandwagoneer.com One of the coolest guys and best websites around...The woody is great...I have a '48 Merc Woody as well.
> 
> MJ


Wow, this site is amazing. MFJ, any chance you might divulge what you paid? Is it reasonable? It seems like this guy virtually re-creates these cars. PM me if you don't feel comfortable broadcasting.

To dream that someday someone will do this with Volvo 240s...my first car was 1986 240 DL, manual transmission, peweter, navy interior... [sigh].

JB


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## Lucky Strike (Feb 23, 2006)

I inherited my first car five weeks ago. It's my grandfather's maroon 1982 Volvo 240 four-door. Salt-and-pepper tweed-ish cloth and black plastic interior. One fist-sized ding on the right wing, from when my mother killed a moose with it. 

Tradly, no? I'll post photos when I've picked it up.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

mfj20th said:


> I am the proud owner of a fully restored '89 GW, built by Norbert at www.grandwagoneer.com One of the coolest guys and best websites around...The woody is great...I have a '48 Merc Woody as well.


Not to disparage the GW, which is arguably the best looking Jeep ever made, but I find it hard to call it a "Woody" in the same sentence with a '48 Merc Woody. Granted, it has a few pieces of wood stuck around some rather awful, I think, wood-grain paint, but it bears no comparison to a true Woody from the 30s through the early 50s. But in keeping with the direction of this thread, the GW is probably a very good example of a Trad car, as would be an older Land/Range Rover or an older Mercedes, particularly a Mercedes Wagon.


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## Lucky Strike (Feb 23, 2006)

I think this was posted in the old "Traddest car" thread on StyleForum:










A few other contenders:





































Someone mentioned bicycles:

Raleigh DL1:










The mighty Dursley-Pedersen:


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

*Trad transportation*

Lucky Strike,
Thank you for posting those wonderful pictures


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

*Trad transportation*

The automobile fleet of a trad should always include a convertible.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

Lucky Strike said:


>


Now *that's* a woody!


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## wereed (Aug 1, 2006)

It would seem to me that a Trad would require a car that would give him constant reliability. Having owned a Volvo already, as well as my brother owning one, I can vouche that these cars are some of the furthest things from reliable. Repairs came far too often and left me with a sign of frustration on my face; not to mention these repairs would be extremely expensive. 
Keeping this in mind, I do not believe a trad would go with a Volvo, since it seems to me that while trads don't mind spending money on the initial investment (you get what you pay for), it wouldn't fit in with his personality to continue paying for repairs. What do you guys think?

Walt

P.S.- I realize Volvos last a long time but it does cost quite a bit of money to keep them on the roads.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

wereed said:


> It would seem to me that a Trad would require a car that would give him constant reliability. Having owned a Volvo already, as well as my brother owning one, I can vouche that these cars are some of the furthest things from reliable. Repairs came far too often and left me with a sign of frustration on my face; not to mention these repairs would be extremely expensive.
> Keeping this in mind, I do not believe a trad would go with a Volvo, since it seems to me that while trads don't mind spending money on the initial investment (you get what you pay for), it wouldn't fit in with his personality to continue paying for repairs. What do you guys think?
> 
> Walt
> ...


Therefore, pehaps domestic, rather than foriegn? Jeep or Ford Country Squire, etc. vs the Volvos or Jags? Those are perhaps for the wealthy anglophiles to toy with...


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## boatshoes (Aug 21, 2005)

wereed said:


> It would seem to me that a Trad would require a car that would give him constant reliability. Having owned a Volvo already, as well as my brother owning one, I can vouche that these cars are some of the furthest things from reliable. Repairs came far too often and left me with a sign of frustration on my face; not to mention these repairs would be extremely expensive.
> Keeping this in mind, I do not believe a trad would go with a Volvo, since it seems to me that while trads don't mind spending money on the initial investment (you get what you pay for), it wouldn't fit in with his personality to continue paying for repairs. What do you guys think?
> 
> Walt
> ...


I'm curious what year/model volvo you owned. Having owned an older volvo, I can say that parts and repairs came cheap when they were (rarely) needed, and they could often be left until a more convenient time allowed taking the car in for service. Was it something post-1998 (after the Ford acquisition)?


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

I think it is a little funny that no car currently in production has been mentioned as a potential 'tradmobile'. My GFs parents drove a late 80s Mercedes, and my parents a similar vintage Volvo, both with the requisite parking passes and college/private school stickers. When those cars broke down and you didn't see them running out to buy 1980s Volvos and Mercedes wagons. 
I don't know if I know anyone who 'is trad', but most of the people I know who shop at Press, Silver, Brooks, etc. don't care too much about cars, and either buy cars for the style and associations Volvo (lefty, intellectual, safety), Range Rover (English countryside), BMW (ex-sorority girl), Mercedes (Big baller CEO), Jag (country club president) OR they buy them for purely utilitarian means--Subaru, Toyota, VW. If they care about cars, decorum is usually the last thing on their minds. They usually want preformance and they get ridiculously gaudy cars M5, Porsche 911, etc. 
Probably no car currently in production would pass muster on this forum as trad, but I think the standard 'nice' brands--Mercedes, Volvo, RR, BMW are probably the best bet.


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## wereed (Aug 1, 2006)

boatshoes said:


> I'm curious what year/model volvo you owned. Having owned an older volvo, I can say that parts and repairs came cheap when they were (rarely) needed, and they could often be left until a more convenient time allowed taking the car in for service. Was it something post-1998 (after the Ford acquisition)?


I had a 94 850 Turbo. Perhaps service is just particularly expensive in Atlanta, but I remember being shocked more than a few times when I saw the bill for the work. I would like to think I had a bad egg, but my brother's wasn't much better.

Walt


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## R_Ingber (Feb 21, 2007)

I think that the Mini Cooper is some what trad, as well as the Volkswagen Golf. 

Any ideas?


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## boatshoes (Aug 21, 2005)

wereed said:


> I had a 94 850 Turbo. Perhaps service is just particularly expensive in Atlanta, but I remember being shocked more than a few times when I saw the bill for the work. I would like to think I had a bad egg, but my brother's wasn't much better.
> 
> Walt


Ok. You got me there. I have a friend that has an 850 (1995 or 1996, no turbo); he's pretty careless with cars and the thing has had nothing but problems. Of course, all of his cars have had nothing but problems. Somehow, it is still on the road.

When I think old reliable volvo, I think 240 and maybe 700 series (I've heard a lot of folks say that the 700 borrows a lot from the 200 series).


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

I think Volvo 240 sedan takes the cake for trad car.

Saab 900 or 9000 too.

Of course that might just be my personal point of view since I was exposed to those cars growing up. I can see the Grand Wagoneer being trad as well.

One thing I wonder about. Why is trad super American when it comes to style and clothing but perfectly willing to let a Euro car be trad? The GW is American, but why wouldn't an American sedan be more trad than a European one?

Danny


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## mfj20th (Dec 25, 2005)

*Wagoneer...*



rip said:


> Not to disparage the GW, which is arguably the best looking Jeep ever made, but I find it hard to call it a "Woody" in the same sentence with a '48 Merc Woody. Granted, it has a few pieces of wood stuck around some rather awful, I think, wood-grain paint, but it bears no comparison to a true Woody from the 30s through the early 50s. But in keeping with the direction of this thread, the GW is probably a very good example of a Trad car, as would be an older Land/Range Rover or an older Mercedes, particularly a Mercedes Wagon.


Cleary the wagoneer isnt the woody that my '48 Merc is, but it's a great daily driver, where the Mercury doesnt leave my little beach town...The Mercury is a really great car and there are several other vintage woodies in town...I guess you could call the Wagoneer the "last of the woodies'" if you werent going to include the Olds Wagons from the mid-90's...Since the Wagoneer artcile appeared in the last issue of Men's Vogue...People have been making a lot of comments about the Wagoneer and leaving notes on it...Seen a couple of other examples of Norbert's complete body-off work around lately as well...the guy is a master with wagoneers...I looked around and nobody was even close in the build quality...


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## EastVillageTrad (May 12, 2006)

I take the subway. IRT line usually...


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

My idea of a true trad vehicle is the Range Rover Classic LWB


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## Good Old Sledge (Jun 13, 2006)

I'm really surprised at how infrequently I see Jaguar mentioned in this context - except perhaps with a slight (typed) sneer. Like a good suit, they look as good "broken in" as new, and I have driven them for many years and miles and have found them to be comfortable, reliable and stately. I now have a '99 Vanden Plas that looks good with dogs and saddles in it, serves a fine tail-gate picnic and cleans up nicely enough to chauffeur the kids to prom. 
Are all the trads secretly scorning me as I drive by?


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

The Jaguar (Vanden Plas/XJ class only) is also a great trad car to own


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## tripreed (Dec 8, 2005)

Good Old Sledge said:


> I'm really surprised at how infrequently I see Jaguar mentioned in this context - except perhaps with a slight (typed) sneer. Like a good suit, they look as good "broken in" as new, and I have driven them for many years and miles and have found them to be comfortable, reliable and stately. I now have a '99 Vanden Plas that looks good with dogs and saddles in it, serves a fine tail-gate picnic and cleans up nicely enough to chauffeur the kids to prom.
> Are all the trads secretly scorning me as I drive by?


I certainly like Jaguars in principle; I like their styling, both interior and exterior, and I do especially like when they're "broken in" as you put it. I also like seeing the British Royal Family pull up in a fleet of Jags. However, from what I understand, they are a crap shoot as far as reliability goes and that's really not something I'm prepared to take my chances with, especially at this point in my life.


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## G. Fink-Nottle (Feb 18, 2007)

I certainly agree that the Mini is Trad. I would like to add the Morris Minor.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Danny said:


> One thing I wonder about. Why is trad super American when it comes to style and clothing but perfectly willing to let a Euro car be trad? The GW is American, but why wouldn't an American sedan be more trad than a European one?
> 
> Danny


Danny, I wouldn't assume because Trads like good ol' Made in the US of A stuff that we dislike influences from other countries. I offer these as examples: Barbour, Gloverall, wellingtons, Harris Tweed, Shetland wool, and, might I add madras, fully American today, but traces its roots to Madras, India.

JB


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

Good Old Sledge said:


> I'm really surprised at how infrequently I see Jaguar mentioned in this context - except perhaps with a slight (typed) sneer. Like a good suit, they look as good "broken in" as new, and I have driven them for many years and miles and have found them to be comfortable, reliable and stately. I now have a '99 Vanden Plas that looks good with dogs and saddles in it, serves a fine tail-gate picnic and cleans up nicely enough to chauffeur the kids to prom.
> Are all the trads secretly scorning me as I drive by?


Best value in luxury sedans is a three year old Jaguar coming off lease. You can't find anything that's already depreciated more from new and will depreciate less in the coming years. Buy it at three years, drive it into the ground, lather, rinse, repeat.


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

Joe Tradly said:


> Danny, I wouldn't assume because Trads like good ol' Made in the US of A stuff that we dislike influences from other countries. I offer these as examples: Barbour, Gloverall, wellingtons, Harris Tweed, Shetland wool, and, might I add madras, fully American today, but traces its roots to Madras, India.
> 
> JB


Right, but while we absorb some English traditions, we eschew a lot of English styling, windsor knot, spread collar, side vents. Though I can see how an English car is trad.


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

Danny said:


> Right, but while we absorb some English traditions, we eschew a lot of English styling, windsor knot, spread collar, side vents. Though I can see how an English car is trad.


Might one say we take the best and leave the rest?

Pip pip.

JB


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## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

The most Trad of Trad Transport. That's me in my jaunty golf hat and Lacoste shirt.


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## egadfly (Nov 10, 2006)

bd79cc said:


> The most Trad of Trad Transport. That's me in my jaunty golf hat and Lacoste shirt.


Is that a black watchband? How tacky.

EGF


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## Joe Tradly (Jan 21, 2006)

egadfly said:


> Is that a black watchband? How tacky.
> 
> EGF


Cross-thread joking. Very good, Fly.

Now a blackwatch band, a very different story....

JB


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## CharlieChannel (Mar 16, 2006)

*American Made -*

Seriously, and I'm not against a 15 year old Range Rover nor
40 year old Volvo: my ride is any year's Mercury Grand Marquis,
in a nice color, Silver, White (for Florida LOL), or new Burgundy.
No other way to get that ride and comfort for under 40K at least.


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## McBurney (Mar 8, 2007)

*Land Cruiser*

I feel that I must add a Toyota Land Cruiser to the list. I know that there will be hue and cry over a Japanese car, but the build quality is amazing, they are inexpensive when purchased used (think thrifting) and they will last forever and a day. Mine is closing in on 200k miles and, except for a couple tears in the seats (my fault for not addressing the problem sooner), the car is free of squeaks, rattles and rust.

Now my 240 at 110k miles was a completely different story...


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

I thought a Trad car was a vehicle that would last for 10+yrs and 150k miles with only regular maintenance.

While Range Rovers and Jaguars look great and certainly have style, they are not known for their low maintenance requirements.

Jeep GW is one of the Trad classics. So is the Jeep Cherokee. Pre 1995 MB gas and diesel Wagons also. For our parents and grandparents: Ford Crown Victoria, Cadiliac Sedan DeVille, Buick Roadmaster. 

Best,

Ross


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

The Land Cruiser is a yuppie assault vehicle. If we're going to apply 'trad' aesthetics to cars, then may I suggest there are very few made today

Volvo, the Wagoneer, the old style American sedans and station wagons, older English cars.

The Chevrolet Caprice, Buick LeSabre and Olds Delta 88 were probably the epitome of 'trad.' Especially when they were still simple rear-wheel drive V8 cars into the mid 80s.

It is an aesthetic of non-showiness. I'm afraid, very unglamorous. (below, 1984 Buick LeSabre:lifted from the net, this is not my car)




The closest thing now might be something like a Toyota Camry, Ford 500, Crown Victoria or the Grand Marquis. The car that has the aesthetic practicality of a tweed jacket and is simple to repair is pretty much history. Still some old ones floating around Fairfield County, Fenwick, etc, but the attitude of restraint is just not there and we are flooded with SUVs instead.

You want exotics and sports and luxury stuff you generally have to go back further in time, to when Jaguar made snappy sports models like the XK 140 and not POS electric time bombs, when Cadillacs had less geriatric associations, when the Wagooner still had that big engine. Most of what's around today made by those makers is pretty yuppie. Even Volvo. It lacks the simple, boxy practicality of say, 1988.

I have an old Fleetwood Brougham. Pretty old-fashioned, simple, and retrograde, but it does stem from the era when these were beginning to be thought of as in bad taste due to their size and decreasing reputation, rather than the headier 50s and 60s. Reviews from the time even say so.


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

1950 MG-TD


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

Coolidge24 said:


> The Land Cruiser is a yuppie assault vehicle. If we're going to apply 'trad' aesthetics to cars, then may I suggest there are very few made today
> 
> Volvo, the Wagoneer, the old style American sedans and station wagons, older English cars.
> 
> ...


My grandpa drove an Olds Delta 88. He also wore pretty much the same thing every day--grey flannels, black captoes, a white button down and a lab coat(he was a pediatrician)--sounds trad to me.

I agree that very little made today passes muster as "trad", I think you are right to point to the camry as one possible example. Although I think that as cars get older they tend to aquire that patina we seek. My girlfriend has an early 90s BMW 5 series. I know that many around here aren't big fans, but at 15 years old, its boxiness really stands out, and when filled with her squash gear and english cocker spaniels, it is the picture of preppiness, if not tradliness.

The point is that after 10 or 15 years some of the cars made today, will probably look 'trad' in comparison to whatever atrocities are in store for us.

The Fleetwood sounds great.


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## Spencer (May 13, 2005)

The choice of a Wagonneer is top. Having learned to drive in one ('79 model). I have been hunting for one to as a daily driver and boat puller. I found a good one last year a '91 but the owner wouldn't let me drive it 50 miles to a mechanic friend to get it checked out. He sold it two days later. It was loaded , but needed a headliner and a paint job. $2400

Any old jeep in a shabby chic mode is American trad.

Where I grew up in Southern WV Grandwagonneers were plentful. Most Coal execs drove them and their wives drove a Cadillac or a Lincoln. When I moved to SC in '83, I was astonished that there were not that many Wagonneers (in the numbers I was use to).

Another American trad vehicle would older well maintained large luxury cars. 60's and 70's Lincolns and Cadillacs, 65-72 Riviera's with a large motor. Old money not invading principal look.

Any full size stock pre-80's ford, chevy, or Gmc pick-up that is clean with a little wear on the edges.You urbanites might not find it that way, but in the rural areas they have more character than a new one. A gun rack is optional, but where are you going to show off grandad's winchester model 21 or browning auto-5 when you go shoot quail or sporting clays.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

septa said:


> My grandpa drove an Olds Delta 88. He also wore pretty much the same thing every day--grey flannels, black captoes, a white button down and a lab coat(he was a pediatrician)--sounds trad to me.
> 
> I agree that very little made today passes muster as "trad", I think you are right to point to the camry as one possible example. Although I think that as cars get older they tend to aquire that patina we seek. My girlfriend has an early 90s BMW 5 series. I know that many around here aren't big fans, but at 15 years old, its boxiness really stands out, and when filled with her squash gear and english cocker spaniels, it is the picture of preppiness, if not tradliness.
> 
> ...


Ha, it is great and I love it but it's from the mid-80s by which time they'd lost their 50s-60s luster and acquired the rather dubious status of mobster/gangster/old people cars and was getting slammed by critics for being big and chromey in a dawning age of "personal luxury"

Yeah basically it's like something bland and utilitarian or a really beat up former luxury car...like your sis's or my buddy's shot to hell Grand Cherokee. That's all that's left.

It is tough to impose a previous generations standards onto every aspect of life, much as sometimes it might be interesting entertainment. When the whole idea of what you're trying to prove changes, it can't ever be the same.

The baby boomers didn't feel the same as their parents and they dropped the Ivy league clothes for newer styles, the 'practical' cars for the Saab and the SUV, the 3 martini lunch for white wine, the squash court for jogging, and the downtown club for fast food or, worse, lunch at the desk before immediately going back to work, on the way to Haight-Ashbury. We can only go so far in finding comparable bits of life today, some of it is forever frozen in what was made and done then, some of it's just gone.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

Coolidge24 said:


> The baby boomers didn't feel the same as their parents and they dropped the Ivy league clothes for newer styles, the 'practical' cars for the Saab and the SUV, the 3 martini lunch for white wine, the squash court for jogging, and the downtown club for fast food or, worse, lunch at the desk before immediately going back to work, on the way to Haight-Ashbury. We can only go so far in finding comparable bits of life today, some of it is forever frozen in what was made and done then, some of it's just gone.


Well not all of us anyway, Ivy league clothes, squash, and martinis have always been popular in some places - guess I was lucky.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

I have always liked and driven SAABs and Volvos. My 9-3 doesn't have the same Swedish quirkiness (charm?) as the older ones, but I still really like it. We just bought a Volvo XC 70 for my wife. Someday I'd like to find and restore an old SAAB 99.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

mpcsb said:


> Well not all of us anyway, Ivy league clothes, squash, and martinis have always been popular in some places - guess I was lucky.


Oh no, not all of you. The numbers dwindle, though. Haven't seen a post by you in a while, good to see you back.


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

A basic Chevy Suburban- not tricked out with "rims" DVD player etc. In a dark somber color. Given regular maintenance it will just about last forever.

Big enough to accomidate the family + dogs + luggage, but still comfortable enough for everyday use and just as acceptable at the country club as it is on the farm.

Best,

Ross


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

tripreed said:


> I certainly like Jaguars in principle; I like their styling, both interior and exterior, and I do especially like when they're "broken in" as you put it. I also like seeing the British Royal Family pull up in a fleet of Jags. However, from what I understand, they are a crap shoot as far as reliability goes and that's really not something I'm prepared to take my chances with, especially at this point in my life.


Actually, in a crap shoot, you do have the occasional chance to win.


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

My dad has a '52 MG but I rock the '01 Subaru Forester.
Dad's car looks like this









My car looks like this


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

*A few other criteria. Personal ones, of course...*

This one has already been mentioned, but I'll bring it back up here; Understatement. It should be a vehicle that no one really notices. Unless it happens to have made it through the last 10 or more years of life with no dings or blemishes and therefore stand out due to its uncommonly "straight" condition.

Reliability. It's gotta be both a daily-driver and very long lasting. Life has too many other attractions to allow time for having to deal with the inconvenience of complicated, easy-to-go-off-tune cars. Unfortunately, this makes many modern, electronically-tuned cars kind of questionable. I used love my '88 535i. But when I learned that the circuit board the runs the dash was a likely-to-fail and hard-to-replace unit I sold the thing off.

One thing about reliability, if you're "thrifting" for a used car is, if it is an older car and has made it this far (with good maintenance records) then it's likely to keep going for a while.

Many of you may not like this next one, but it is consistent with my experience of the most hard-core trad folks I've known--complete lack of Status associations. My old Yalie buddy drove a Mazda GLC, with a patina that only came from NEVER washing it. One of the wealthiest trad families I knew provided a car for their kids (I think it was an early seventies plymouth) in the most basic model available. Vinyl seats, NO RADIO, not even AM, rubber floor mats, crank windows, in BEIGE. It simply never occurred to them that a car needed to be anything other than transportation. Time-wise, we're talking mid to late 1980's here, when I was hanging with them.

My final criteria, and again, some 'a you are not gonna like this, is, it's got to be paid for. Mmmmm. Upon reflection I think that perhaps this single criteria could stand in for all the others. Because heck, if you can pay fully for anything, even if it is the most blinged-to-death SUV pimpmobile out there, thumbing your nose at those at the country club who sniff with disapproval, then hell, that's pretty trad too. As a matter of fact, complete disregard for the opinions of others, or simply not even having it occur to oneself to care or even think of such a thing, would be a very reliable litmus test for deep tradliness... Of course, such a person would never ever be reading or posting on the internet about trad cars, would they?

Markus


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

Markus said:


> My final criteria, and again, some 'a you are not gonna like this, is, it's got to be paid for. Mmmmm. Upon reflection I think that perhaps this single criteria could stand in for all the others. Because heck, if you can pay fully for anything, even if it is the most blinged-to-death SUV pimpmobile out there, thumbing your nose at those at the country club who sniff with disapproval, then hell, that's pretty trad too. As a matter of fact, complete disregard for the opinions of others, or simply not even having it occur to oneself to care or even think of such a thing, would be a very reliable litmus test for deep tradliness... Of course, such a person would never ever be reading or posting on the internet about trad cars, would they?
> 
> Markus


Excellent point. Having a car payment is probably very un-Trad!


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Markus said:


> This one has already been mentioned, but I'll bring it back up here; Understatement. It should be a vehicle that no one really notices. Unless it happens to have made it through the last 10 or more years of life with no dings or blemishes and therefore stand out due to its uncommonly "straight" condition.
> 
> Reliability. It's gotta be both a daily-driver and very long lasting. Life has too many other attractions to allow time for having to deal with the inconvenience of complicated, easy-to-go-off-tune cars. Unfortunately, this makes many modern, electronically-tuned cars kind of questionable. I used love my '88 535i. But when I learned that the circuit board the runs the dash was a likely-to-fail and hard-to-replace unit I sold the thing off.
> 
> ...


I agree in most cases, but I paid my car off in 3 years at a 0% rate and kept the rest of the money invested for that time.


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## mpcsb (Jan 1, 2005)

HistoryDoc said:


> My dad has a '52 MG but I rock the '01 Subaru Forester.


H doc, nice pics. My sister had the next model MG a 1957, but hers was red!


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

HistoryDoc, 

Those Foresters are nice vehicles. I see at least one everyday, 4 of the 10 neighbors I have on my small street and 2 on the cross street drive one. They must have had a good deal at our local Subaru dealer. :icon_smile:


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## HistoryDoc (Dec 14, 2006)

The Forester is pretty close to being a perfect vehicle: quick, good mileage, reliable, safe, doesn't draw attention, all wheel drive, seats four, four doors, cold weather package was great when we lived in Colorado, with the back seats down the cargo area is big enough for almost anything. Mrs. HD's Lincoln is smoother on the open road, of course. I plan on handing that Forester down to my kids (when I have kids).

I had a '76 MG in high school and it was junk. Monthly repairs made it cost more than a car payment.


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

*Upon reflection... we gotta live in the real world.*

maybe I've been too hard-core in my criteria.

Why do I say this? 'Cause Subarus are really great cars. They're not over-the-top showy, some of 'em are even kinda ugly (in a good way). They last, or at least the older ones did. They're well built, reliable. Non-distracting. But most people are not going to have the money to buy one outright, so the criteria of being able to pay cash will have to fall by the wayside.

And Laxie's experience of being able to pay his car off in 3 years at 0%, well, that's pretty trad. You know, leave the trust funds undisturbed.

Markus


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Markus said:


> maybe I've been too hard-core in my criteria.
> 
> Why do I say this? 'Cause Subarus are really great cars. They're not over-the-top showy, some of 'em are even kinda ugly (in a good way). They last, or at least the older ones did. They're well built, reliable. Non-distracting. But most people are not going to have the money to buy one outright, so the criteria of being able to pay cash will have to fall by the wayside.
> 
> ...


No trust fund here. Just an insurance settlement from a drunk driver who almost killed me and my wife after he "T-boned" us at 50 mph. I lost my front teeth and had broken ribs. My wife had broken ribs, clavicle, broken hip (in 5 places), femur, lacerated liver, and a punctured lung. She was in ICU for 8 days. The car that hit us traveled another 20 feet down the road, landing on it's roof. The driver didn't have one injury besides a few scratches from all the glass. He had two prior DWIs and received one year in jail for hitting us. Unfortunately, it probably won't be long until he does it again.


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## Duck (Jan 4, 2007)

Laxplayer said:


> No trust fund here. Just an insurance settlement from a drunk driver who almost killed me and my wife after he "T-boned" us at 50 mph. I lost my front teeth and had broken ribs. My wife had broken ribs, clavicle, broken hip (in 5 places), femur, lacerated liver, and a punctured lung. She was in ICU for 8 days. The car that hit us traveled another 20 feet down the road, landing on it's roof. The driver didn't have one injury besides a few scratches from all the glass. He had two prior DWIs and received one year in jail for hitting us. Unfortunately, it probably won't be long until he does it again.


Those accidents are the worst. Growing up my parents were driving our woody Wagoneer's and on two different occasions were rear ended by drunk drivers. The Wagoneer's saved our lives since they hit us at a dead stop doing close to 40 MPH. Both times drivers were hit and runs and by run, I mean they left the car and ran off. My Mother was pregnant with my sister in the second accident, two weeks before the due date and I remember the fear we all were faced with during the next two weeks. Luckily, she was a healthy baby.

Lax, glad that y'all were able to heal after such a horrific accident. You deserve ever penny.

Cheers,
Duck


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## CharlieChannel (Mar 16, 2006)

Fleetwoods were great and I'm reminded of my '80 Buick LeSabre. Smooth,
big, a huge trunk, great ride, and pickup that blew away 80% of the other
vehicles on the road. Huge V-8 ..."what were your other questions?"


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## knickerbacker (Jun 27, 2005)

fenway said:


> Best value in luxury sedans is a three year old Jaguar coming off lease. You can't find anything that's already depreciated more from new and will depreciate less in the coming years. Buy it at three years, drive it into the ground, lather, rinse, repeat.


this is very good advice- a low milage '03 s-type jag is (under)valued at 15k and are often factory certified for 6 years/100k from original sale date.
I think that it's safe to say that the "Lucas- prince of darkness" days are over for both jag and the LR's and they will pay for an old rep for a long time.
I'm thinking of it as the 88 240 wagon is getting a bit long in the tooth (it was dad's car). Here in SF, I do get a bit of a hard time every once in a while about the nantucket yacht club parking pass in the window. My response usually shuts the brick thrower right up. "Well, if you know where that is than it's likely that this whole san francisco bohemian punk rocker thing is what you're doing between prep school and the division of a large inheritance, no?". So far it hasn't failed me once. Funny, the guy with a 20 year old volvo (and whose family yacht was a sunfish) gets all the anti elitist crap around here. Ahh I digress.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

*first photo posting!*

https://imageshack.us


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

CharlieChannel said:


> Fleetwoods were great and I'm reminded of my '80 Buick LeSabre. Smooth,
> big, a huge trunk, great ride, and pickup that blew away 80% of the other
> vehicles on the road. Huge V-8 ..."what were your other questions?"


I remember the LeSabre... we moved an entire house and two horses in one trip in a LeSabre


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

mpcsb said:


> H doc, nice pics. My sister had the next model MG a 1957, but hers was red!


Actually, The next model was the TF, sort of a transition from the TD to the A, swooping fenders but the headlamps were faired in and the displacement ultimately increased to 1500cc.


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## septa (Mar 4, 2006)

shuman said:


> https://imageshack.us


Is that yours? If so congrats. Its a real beaut.


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Markus said:


> This one has already been mentioned, but I'll bring it back up here; Understatement. It should be a vehicle that no one really notices. Unless it happens to have made it through the last 10 or more years of life with no dings or blemishes and therefore stand out due to its uncommonly "straight" condition.
> 
> Reliability. It's gotta be both a daily-driver and very long lasting. Life has too many other attractions to allow time for having to deal with the inconvenience of complicated, easy-to-go-off-tune cars. Unfortunately, this makes many modern, electronically-tuned cars kind of questionable. I used love my '88 535i. But when I learned that the circuit board the runs the dash was a likely-to-fail and hard-to-replace unit I sold the thing off.
> 
> ...


Yippee! I qualify as a trad since I paid cash for my last 3 cars. :icon_smile_big:


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

Asterix said:


> Yippee! I qualify as a trad since I paid cash for my last 3 cars. :icon_smile_big:


Oh boy!


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

septa said:


> Is that yours? If so congrats. Its a real beaut.


Yes. She's mine. Paid cash. She's a diamond in the rough!


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

Coolidge24 said:


> Oh boy!


What is the matter Coolidge24? Can't I delude myself briefy that I am a trad for a few seconds? :icon_smile_big:


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## mfj20th (Dec 25, 2005)

shuman said:


> https://imageshack.us


Heres my wagoneer....In SunnySo Cal...
MJ
https://imageshack.us

https://imageshack.us


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

mfj20th said:


> Heres my wagoneer....In SunnySo Cal...
> MJ
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> https://imageshack.us


Beautiful jeep! Thats what I strive for. For right now, I will settle for safe transportation that is paid for!

Did you restore it, or did you buy it that way?


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Beautiful truck. Mine has the same maroon interior, but its gray with wood paneling on the outside. And yours is in prestine condition. What year is it? Was it sent to Wagonmaster for restoration?


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## mfj20th (Dec 25, 2005)

*Wagoneer...*

My Wagoneer is an '89....
It was a full body off restoration done by a meticulous guys here in LA...Norbert at www.grandwagoneer.com...I looked at several other GW resto guys and this guy is pretty amazing, the build quality is awesome...I am not sure if he is still doing it, b/c it was so time consuming...u should check out his site for tons of pix...I can upload others if anyone wants to see them.
Best,
Matt


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Very nice. Mine is an 89 also. Thanks for sharing those pics, your truck looks spectacular.


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## fenway (May 2, 2006)

Would this be an acceptable 2007 replacement for the Grand Wagoneer?



















Photos taken from www.ptwoody.com


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## Tom Rath (May 31, 2005)

Fenway - not a bad looking truck.

In fact, it doesnt look all that different from my Grand Wagoneer:

https://www.photolinko.com/register.php


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## Kingsfield (Nov 15, 2006)

Given my druthers and some extra gas money, I would opt for an 1968-72 Mercedes-Benz 300 SEL 6.3 
https://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&q=Mercedes+300SEL+6.3

Or maybe an old 600 SWB.
https://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&q=MERCEDES+BENZ+600+SWB


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

How about a Ford Bronco? Just cant disagree with that sort of dinosaur.


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## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

mfj20th said:


> Heres my wagoneer....In SunnySo Cal...
> MJ
> https://imageshack.us
> 
> https://imageshack.us


A truely great car. Oozes "classic." Hopefully thats all it oozes.


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## Bradford (Dec 10, 2004)

fenway said:


> Would this be an acceptable 2007 replacement for the Grand Wagoneer?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not an expert, but I don't think the Jeep Commander is trad in the least.

-------------------------------

mfj20th - that is a beautiful Wagoneer! Makes me wish I had bought the one I looked at in '89 instead of waiting until 2000 to finally get a Grand Cherokee which I had for four years.


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## shuman (Dec 12, 2004)

I'm thinking there may be a place in the Southern or Midwestern area for the old beat up farm truck. You know, if it was good enough for Sam Walton and his millions, its good enough for me! Now, Ford or Chevy?


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Nostalgia time...


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## Valhson (Mar 26, 2007)

shuman said:


> I'm thinking there may be a place in the Southern or Midwestern area for the old beat up farm truck. You know, if it was good enough for Sam Walton and his millions, its good enough for me! Now, Ford or Chevy?


How about a 1963 F-100? I got this from a gent here in DC. He had it parked under the Rayburn buildingfor the last few years... Great guy, great truck.


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