# Unbuttoned button down shirts



## Wisco (Dec 3, 2009)

What is the rationale for the unbuttoned button down collar look? I simply don't get it. 

We see one of my favorite well dressed bloggers sporting this fallacy... oh Mistah Wong, how could you?



and to my horror, my heroes of the soft shoulder... the senior Rubinacci him self!



I'm all for softer collars or the hidden button under the collar in the summer, but in my opinion this look is simply trying to hard to add a dash of sprezz. It's sloppy and draws your attention to "what is wrong with his dress" way. What's next, open fly on your trousers and mismatched socks? 

What say you?

Ciao,

Wisco


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

It's been popular in Italy since at least Gianni Agnelli's time, as it was one of his deliberate (some say contrived) imperfections. 

I don't much care for it myself, but I think there is a certain logic to it. There are any number of buttons on clothing that we either must or may leave undone. So the question is: why should this particular pair of buttons belong to the "must button" class? Well, the truth is that the number of men who should be wearing button-downs with their ties and jackets is a lot lower than the number who do. The roll of the collar echoes the roll of the jowl and double chin of many portly or aged men. Wearing the collar unbuttoned allows the collar to lie flat, in a more flattering configuration. Now, why not just buy a darn spread or straight collar? The interlining is typically softern in the BD's than in the spread or straight collars, so there is more of a tendency of the collar to conform to the neck and shoulder - just in a concave fashion, rather than the often-convex roll of the buttoned BD. And we live in a time when pretention is seen as a capital crime, and button-down collars are rarely seen as pretentious. 

That's the best case I can make for the practice. But it's a practice I don't engage in (unless it's by accident).


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## Edinburgh Lad (May 11, 2010)

Yes my pet hate too, why do people do that ?


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

I like Phat Guido and his blog but if you follow him, you'll see that he jumps on one Italian fashion trend after another (not all fashion trends are "designer"), whether it's a fabric flower in the lapel, a camouflage pattern tailored jacket, or an unbuttoned buttondown collar (although I think this has been around for a while). The unbuttoned collar is seen often enough in Italy to work but I think it comes across as affected anywhere else. Wear a watch over your cuff to complete the look.


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## Blueboy1938 (Aug 17, 2008)

*When in Roma . . .*

. . . but not Rome (GA, IL, IN, IA, NY, OH, PA, TN, or WI)!

Leaving both BD collar buttons unbuttoned, then, is OK in Italy but not "elsewhere", it would seem.

What about leaving just one unbuttoned? Would that be OK in Kazakhstan, but only if one is Borat?


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

If I'm wearing an oxford cloth button down casually I'll often undo the collar buttons and roll up the sleeves.

With a tie I always button them.


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## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

I've done it, and a co-worker of mine does it regularly but for different affect. Hardly anybody ever notices, or says anything about it. I hear more about Portofino cuffs when I wear them than an unbuttoned BD collar.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Wisco said:


> ... oh Mistah Wong, how could you?


Two Wongs don't make a right!!


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

While I may frequently wear the shirt collar open, the collar tips on my OCBDs are always secure(d)!


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Mr. Mac said:


> If I'm wearing an oxford cloth button down casually I'll often undo the collar buttons and roll up the sleeves.
> 
> With a tie I always button them.


+1. In casual, warm-weather mode, unbuttoning not just the center button but also the tips, so the collar spreads and lies flat, helps the shirt wear a little cooler. But I don't care for the look with a tie.


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

I will point out one fact with the gentleman inn green in the picture; his collar is still lying flat on his shirt. If there were no button to be seen, I would think that his shirt is just fine. Given the location of the button, I think that having it buttoned would actually look worse.

I do find it odd that he has his tie in a knot I would wear, but the other gentleman chose the Italian style of showing the thin part of the tie. Odd shoes with no socks too.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

If it's button-down, button the @#$% collar. It's that simple. If you don't want to button your collar then wear a point or spread collar. It's that simple. It's like wearing your shoes untied or not zipping your fly--if you don't want to do those two things then wear loafers and sweatpants.

A college kid knocking around in a rumpled ocbd with the collar unbuttoned is one thing but if you are over 25 those times are past.

And I agree with the previous poster who said that if you are going to wear it unbuttoned, please at least complete the dork look with your watch outside your cuff!


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

g.michael said:


> If it's button-down, button the @#$% collar. It's that simple.


Have you ever worn a vest and left the bottom button unbuttoned? Why? If it's a button up vest, button the @#$% button.

Have you ever worn a suit jacket or sport coat and left the bottom button unbuttoned while the other button(s) are buttoned? Why? Button up the @#$% jacket.

It's that simple. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

I just took off my tie and unbuttoned my collar points. I will report back if anything bad happens to me.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Nice post, Cruiser. As I pointed out, there are many vestigial/never-fastened buttons in men's clothing.

g.michael, as for the watch-over-cuff constituting a "dork look," I think that's off-base. As with the unbuttoned BD collar, I don't care for it myself, but it has a pretty stout post-war pedigree. Whatever else he may have been, I think few considered Gianni Agnelli a "dork."


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## JohnRov (Sep 3, 2008)

I don't like it much, but most people probably don't notice. Keeping them buttoned gives some structure to the collar and helps break up my really long neck.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Sorry, I just don't buy the "I do it because it's cooler in hot weather" bit. I've lived in the deep, hot, humid South all my life...and if there are any tricks for surviving the heat--we've probably tried them. Loosening the middle button when wearing a tie around the office can make a difference. Rolling the sleeves up is cooler. Even unbuttoning the button below the middle collar button if not wearing a tie may be done to let some air in. But not buttoning the points of a button down collar has never been a practice nor considered to be a relief from the heat. It just looks like someone is absent-minded and forgot to button their collar, or they don't have a clue and don't realize that is what the buttons are there for, or--just maybe--trying way too hard for a certain type of 'look' and failing miserably. I agree with those who absolutely _cannot stand_ to see this and if it is someone who works for me I will inform them that they forgot to button their collar. And Cruiser, I'm _sure_ you were jesting when you equated it with not buttoning the bottom button of a vest or coat. I've read enough of your posts to know that you have great classic fashion sense and would not seriouisly condone such a thing. But it was a witty comparison:biggrin2:.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

CuffDaddy said:


> Nice post, Cruiser.


Thanks, I was afraid that some might not see the tongue in cheek nature of my comment. As with many of the things I say, I'm not necessarily advocating anything or saying that I do it; but rather am simply trying to point out some of the inconsistencies I often see. In other words I keep my collars buttoned.

Having said that, just a few weeks ago I had on an old short sleeve shirt with an unbuttoned button down collar. I was wearing a pair of jeans, boat shoes (sockless) and my shirt wasn't tucked in. I ran into my ex-wife and the first thing she said was "Button your shirt collar." She was just poking some good natured fun at me, but I couldn't help but remember that with a laugh when I read this thread.

Cruiser


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## Top Guns (Apr 29, 2010)

Perhaps it is done for the same reason some people leave a working cuff button undone? You know; to show that they are real, working buttons!


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

The first time I saw this was very recently on the models for LE's new Canvas line. I thought it looked odd, figured it fit in with their J.Crew cool look. Must admit I thought it was an affectation and was unaware of the practice's pedigree. I don't think I will be doing this, but it would be more likely with these small collar type shirts. I do like some of the LE Canvas stuff for very casual wear, by the way. I am wearing their worn in chino shorts right now, missed the pin cords in my size.

Example of unbuttoned button down:
https://canvas.landsend.com/pp/Stri...re&sku_0=::NOA&CM_MERCH=IDX_00017__0000002238


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## jean-paul sartorial (Jul 28, 2010)

You guys are really talking about unbuttoned button down _collars_, right?

Because I tried the unbuttoned, button down shirt look today at work and it didn't go over so well. I wasn't too sure about whether to wear a tie or not, so in the end I compromised and just painted one on my bare chest. Maybe that was the problem.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

J.Marko said:


> The first time I saw this was very recently on the models for LE's new Canvas line. I thought it looked odd, figured it fit in with their J.Crew cool look. Must admit I thought it was an affectation and was unaware of the practice's pedigree. I don't think I will be doing this, but it would be more likely with these small collar type shirts. I do like some of the LE Canvas stuff for very casual wear, by the way. I am wearing their worn in chino shorts right now, missed the pin cords in my size.
> 
> Example of unbuttoned button down:
> https://canvas.landsend.com/pp/Stri...re&sku_0=::NOA&CM_MERCH=IDX_00017__0000002238


Looks like the "I just stayed up partying, uh...I mean studying...uh, drinking Red Bull and jello shots and my parents showed up unexpectedly on campus for a visit" look. Don't attempt if you are over 19.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Saltydog said:


> Looks like the "I just stayed up partying, uh...I mean studying...uh, drinking Red Bull and jello shots and my parents showed up unexpectedly on campus for a visit" look. Don't attempt if you are over 19.


Dude!

Yeah exactly, or an Italian fashion maven with no socks on.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

While I'm loathe to criticize Mariano Rubinnaci, and even less so his far more stylish-looking son, my favorite style icon, Luca (who _isn't_ wearing an unbuttoned button-down, BTW), I've never seen the point of this. If a shirt is deliberately made to have a button-down collar, it's hard to see how it's going to look better unbuttoned than a shirt that was deliberately made without buttons. Now given that Runbinacci's shirt is probably custom made, I suppose it may have been deliberately designed to be worn unbuttoned, with the buttons just added as decorations. Maybe AK can shed some light on this possibility ...


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

JerseyJohn said:


> While I'm loathe to criticize Mariano Rubinnaci, and even less so his far more stylish-looking son, my favorite style icon, Luca (who _isn't_ wearing an unbuttoned button-down, BTW), I've never seen the point of this. If a shirt is deliberately made to have a button-down collar, it's hard to see how it's going to look better unbuttoned than a shirt that was deliberately made without buttons. Now given that Runbinacci's shirt is probably custom made, I suppose it may have been deliberately designed to be worn unbuttoned, with the buttons just added as decorations. Maybe AK can shed some light on this possibility ...


 But you are assuming that the shirt was "made to have a button-down collar". Perhaps this shirt was made to have an unbuttoned button-down collar and exposed button. Stranger things have happened.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Dragoon said:


> I just took off my tie and unbuttoned my collar points. I will report back if anything bad happens to me.


LOL...and the Anti-Christ adds another name to his list of Souls stolen!


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

Cruiser said:


> Have you ever worn a vest and left the bottom button unbuttoned? Why? If it's a button up vest, button the @#$% button.
> 
> Have you ever worn a suit jacket or sport coat and left the bottom button unbuttoned while the other button(s) are buttoned? Why? Button up the @#$% jacket.
> 
> ...


These are excellent points but I'm not sure the look would work with my hush puppies and sweatpants.:icon_smile_wink:


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

Dragoon said:


> I just took off my tie and unbuttoned my collar points. I will report back if anything bad happens to me.





eagle2250 said:


> LOL...and the Anti-Christ adds another name to his list of Souls stolen!


I left it unbuttoned about an hour and put it back.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

CuffDaddy said:


> Nice post, Cruiser. As I pointed out, there are many vestigial/never-fastened buttons in men's clothing.
> 
> g.michael, as for the watch-over-cuff constituting a "dork look," I think that's off-base. As with the unbuttoned BD collar, I don't care for it myself, but it has a pretty stout post-war pedigree. Whatever else he may have been, I think few considered Gianni Agnelli a "dork."


Ah yes, Mr. Fiat. Also known for wearing hiking boots with his bespoke suits (with the suit pants tucked in).
All I can say here is that if you run your own car company, people will pretty much let you do what you want and not laugh at you (at least not to your face). If he was anybody else, given his age, we would be politely talking about forgiving the elderly their "eccentricities".


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

People did more than let Agnelli do what he wanted. They put him in magazines, wrote paens to his style, and copied him (sometimes slavishly). His eccentricities were not merely tolerated, they were regarded as the acts of a brilliantly stylish man. They influenced generations of undeniably stylish men.

Now, as I have made clear, I don't care for the idiosyncrosy at issue in this thread, nor for many of Agnelli's tricks. I dislike the look of the watch over the cuff. But it isn't a "dork" look.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

CuffDaddy,

I certainly understand all of your points, and hope you can appreciate some of my sarcasm and the frivolity of part of my responses.

Humor me if you will. I’m happy for Mr. Agnelli and his success, although since he is deceased he couldn’t possibly care anymore. I understand the reality that if you are a multimillionaire/billionaire, movie star, sports figure, politician, etc. and sport certain fashion oddities, especially in a splashy way, then you will most definitely have people writing fashion articles about you wherein they celebrate your “style”, and there will be people who emulate your “look”. That’s part of the way fashion works, as we all know. Fashion “laws” , for better or worse, are not immutable like mathematics and science, which means everybody (and I mean everybody), will have their own version. Some will agree with one’s fashions and some will not.

I can’t speak for other parts of the country, but the reality is this: if you are a nobody like me, and you wear your watch on the outside of your cuff around these parts, people will indeed laugh and call you a “dork” (or worse things), and assume you are a nutty professor or engineer (civil, petroleum, computer—take your pick). Nobody will emulate you or write magazine articles about your “trendsetting” style. Same goes for suit pants tucked in your hiking boots or your unbuttoned, button-down shirt collar.

So, and I know most people don’t care and many may disagree, my own fashion “laws” say that Mr. Agnelli’s hair, suit and tie look great, but his watch and the way he wears it says “dork”. Suit pants with hiking boots (and tucked into your hiking boots) is also very dorky and would have most people around here questioning your sanity, millionaire or not.

Finally, I do have a final note on not fastening button-down shirt collars. There is one person who could easily get away with it and it would not have anyone look at him any differently. Yes, I’m talking about Barney Frank.:icon_smile_big:


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

g.michael, I can't help it if you've chosen to live in Tulsa. 

;P My wife grew up near there, so I hear you about the likely reception.


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## beherethen (Jun 6, 2009)

I usually only do it when wearing one of my black suits. I feel it kind of softens or mellows out the look. As to what other men do in buttoning their collars, I can honestly say that I've never noticed one way or another.


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## g.michael (Jul 9, 2010)

CuffDaddy said:


> g.michael, I can't help it if you've chosen to live in Tulsa.
> 
> ;P My wife grew up near there, so I hear you about the likely reception.


I get that alot. It's why I sometimes lash out. Having to drive 4 hours to Dallas when you want to do real shopping can get anyone frustrated.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

The more I thought about this the more I seemed to remember a picture I posted a few weeks ago in which I had unbuttoned collar buttons, so I went through the archives and sure enough, I did.










Most of you would probably say that the jeans and untucked shirt are a bigger sin, especially for a 60+ year old man. I can only say that I hope those are the biggest sins I commit, but I know that isn't true. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

^^

I dress that way in the laundry room too!!


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

I would be tempted to snip off those buttons if I wasn't using them . . .


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

J.Marko said:


> I would be tempted to snip off those buttons if I wasn't using them . . .


Do you snip off other buttons that you don't use. I assume that you don't button the bottom button on your suit jackets and sport coats. Just wondering. :icon_smile:

Cruiser


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Cruiser said:


> Do you snip off other buttons that you don't use. I assume that you don't button the bottom button on your suit jackets and sport coats. Just wondering. :icon_smile:
> 
> Cruiser


I will from now on just to avoid being thought inconsistent!

Oh ok, I won't, but those buttons are not buttoned by 99% of the population, and are not sitting out on my shirt all lonely under my collar with nothing to do. We have collars that are buttoned, which are almost always buttoned, and button-less collars that are never buttoned (except for those hidden button things I see only on custom shirt web sites). If a shirt collar is free and unbound, I don't expect to see a button; if I see a button, I think the wearer has forgotten to button it, the person doesn't know better, the person is trying to be Sprezz (and the only thing worse than not being sprezz is getting caught trying to be sprezz), or that the buttons have been mistakenly sewn onto the shirt - in which case I feel an urge to snip them off. 

I _must _have something better to do than this! I have a package from BB that just arrived that I am going to go and open.


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

MRR said:


> But you are assuming that the shirt was "made to have a button-down collar". Perhaps this shirt was made to have an unbuttoned button-down collar and exposed button. Stranger things have happened.


No...no they haven't.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

Saltydog said:


> No...no they haven't.


Of course there are stranger things. For example, what about that style of jacket that has a buttonhole smack dab in the middle of the lapel roll with a button hidden away under the other lapel? That's pretty strange. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Cruiser said:


> Of course there are stranger things. For example, what about that style of jacket that has a buttonhole smack dab in the middle of the lapel roll with a button hidden away under the other lapel? That's pretty strange. :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Aaarrrrgggghhhh...You got me on that one! Of course I always button that button. It helps my clip-on tie stay in place.


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## Wayfarer89 (Aug 16, 2010)

I can see doing it when wearing casual clothes, but it seems kinda weird in suits.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

First Point: I think it looks weird and dumb (unbuttoned button-down collar, that is).

Second Point: It's hard to come up with logical reason for this, that isn't just obviously a _post hoc_ rationalization.

In addition to the obvious buttons-that-aren't-buttoned already mentioned, another one that's disturbingly close, geographically, to those in question: the shirt's top button. How many people resolutely button it when not wearing a tie? "Oh, sure, but that's only when not wearing a tie," some no doubt say; to which Mr.-Whatshisname from the OP's photo could brightly reply, "And I only button the collar points when _not_ wearing tie."

A few more:
- Placketsfull of unbuttoned buttons on polo shirts
- Some subtly variable number of buttons at the top of almost all women's blouses
- Bottom button of a vest (or what some people insist in referring to as a "waistcoat")
- Dress shirt guantlet buttons
- Assorted button on overcoats, depending on the overcoat
- All the buttons on a flannel shirt if you're a teenager or otherwise affecting a grunge look


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

^^^ Ding! I grant you 5 points for making good arguments! Especially your first point about the top shirt button - although that also serves to make the shirt more comfortable, which I don't believe unbuttoning the collar point buttons do - well, maybe slightly. I am still not convinced, but at least your arguments are good


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

MRR said:


> But you are assuming that the shirt was "made to have a button-down collar". Perhaps this shirt was made to have an unbuttoned button-down collar and exposed button. Stranger things have happened.


I assumed I had covered that possibility with my comment that "I suppose it may have been deliberately designed to be worn unbuttoned, with the buttons just added as decorations." Am I missing something?


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

I dunno. I always found it extremely odd to see a shirt buttoned up all the way with no tie. Besides, as has been already pointed out, its more comfortable. 

Polos would look odd without the buttons and the collar.
Women don't button those buttons anyway, so variability is clearly design specific. At least nowadays, no idea what things were like 15 years ago. My memory does not reach that far back.
Again, it would look odd. And if they did away with that particular button, they'd just unbutton the next one up. As to why people do it, clearly its because everyone else does... I'll give you that one, I can't think of a good reason.
Guantlet buttons were discussed in another thread.
Same reason as the variability in buttons with women's blouses. Design specific. No hard and fast rules = more variability.
Don't understand this one. Unless your referring to how teenagers like to unbutton all the buttons on a dress shirt and throw it over a t-shirt. The only rational argument is that such an apparatus is both warmer and "cooler" than the t-shirt alone. Would it be warmer with the buttons buttoned? Probably. But its still warmer. Is it actually cooler? I think kids are generally ill-informed anyway so... I guess I'll give you that one too.


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## Beefeater (Jun 2, 2007)

_I get that alot. It's why I sometimes lash out. Having to drive 4 hours to Dallas when you want to do real shopping can get anyone frustrated._

Hell, it takes me 4 hours and I live in Dallas. Effin' traffic.


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## Mr. Mac (Mar 14, 2008)

CuffDaddy said:


> People did more than let Agnelli do what he wanted. They put him in magazines, wrote paens to his style, and copied him (sometimes slavishly). His eccentricities were not merely tolerated, they were regarded as the acts of a brilliantly stylish man. They influenced generations of undeniably stylish men.
> 
> Now, as I have made clear, I don't care for the idiosyncrosy at issue in this thread, nor for many of Agnelli's tricks. I dislike the look of the watch over the cuff. But it isn't a "dork" look.


+1

If a fellow can pull it off, more power to him. I can't, and so I don't try.


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## tocqueville (Nov 15, 2009)

I don't think anyone that rich is quite a dork. Even Bill Gates transcends dork-dome by being a monster capitalist. If you want to see dorks and how they dress, I can show you around the think tank where I work.



CuffDaddy said:


> Nice post, Cruiser. As I pointed out, there are many vestigial/never-fastened buttons in men's clothing.
> 
> g.michael, as for the watch-over-cuff constituting a "dork look," I think that's off-base. As with the unbuttoned BD collar, I don't care for it myself, but it has a pretty stout post-war pedigree. Whatever else he may have been, I think few considered Gianni Agnelli a "dork."


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## MRR (Nov 19, 2009)

JerseyJohn said:


> I assumed I had covered that possibility with my comment that "I suppose it may have been deliberately designed to be worn unbuttoned, with the buttons just added as decorations." Am I missing something?


 No. It looks as if I missed something when I read it.:frown:


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## dwebber18 (Jun 5, 2008)

Mr. Mac said:


> If I'm wearing an oxford cloth button down casually I'll often undo the collar buttons and roll up the sleeves.
> 
> With a tie I always button them.


 I'll agree with this one, if I'm wearing a OCBD with khakis and no jacket I'll probably unbutton them because I don't like the collar pushed up on my neck when I unbutton the top button. With a tie and coat, I leave them buttoned.


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## Starch (Jun 28, 2010)

dwebber18 said:


> I'll agree with this one, if I'm wearing a OCBD with khakis and no jacket I'll probably unbutton them because I don't like the collar pushed up on my neck when I unbutton the top button. With a tie and coat, I leave them buttoned.


Color me surprised, as that seems just about completely backwards to me.

With a tie, the buttons don't actually do all that much (so long as you're not riding a polo pony, anyway). Without a tie, they give the collar the distinctive roll that some consider the essence of the whole undertaking.


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