# Cocktail Casual



## NEW_Rome (Oct 29, 2008)

I just received an invitation to a business party with the dress code "Cocktail Casual". I immediately went to the 'Cracking the Dress Code' section of this wonderful site and found the heading Day or Evening Informal. Because the invite says Cocktail Casual, not just Cocktail, is this one of those invitations I should definitely ask about, or is there a code for this?


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## alex87tkd (Jun 12, 2009)

NEW_Rome said:


> I just received an invitation to a business party with the dress code "Cocktail Casual". I immediately went to the 'Cracking the Dress Code' section of this wonderful site and found the heading Day or Evening Informal. Because the invite says Cocktail Casual, not just Cocktail, is this one of those invitations I should definitely ask about, or is there a code for this?


This is why the encyclopedia rules. Ignore the word "casual" it means nothing to do with dress codes. The word "cocktail" however, as per Andy's encyclopedia, means informal (NOT casual). Basically, a business suit, tie and appropriate footwear.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

The person advertising the event may not have read the rules and could mean anything by that.


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## alex87tkd (Jun 12, 2009)

J.Marko said:


> The person advertising the event may not have read the rules and could mean anything by that.


Then said person is a complete moron as apposed to a slight moron.


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## David Reeves (Dec 19, 2008)

Open to a bit of interpretation but I would say a suit; any colour or style is okay within reason ie Biege linen is good as is navy. No Tie.

Can't imagine you would go wrong with this.


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## Nerev (Apr 25, 2009)

No way you can call and find out? If not, go a bit earlier and see what everyone is wearing. If you see suits and no ties, don't put it on or vice versa.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

The safe thing would be to wear a suit and tie, but possibly with a shirt that will look okay without a tie. You can take the tie off if you really have to or leave it on if say at least a quarter of the men are wearing one. (Usually, for myself, I would just wear the tie unless it's a group where I know I have grossly overdressed before and not worry too much about it. Others might not feel comfortable with that; at 53, I can get away with overdressing a bit easier than younger people can.)


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Nerev said:


> No way you can call and find out? If not, go a bit earlier and see what everyone is wearing. If you see suits and no ties, don't put it on or vice versa.


The problem is that if anyone sees you before you go in and you obviously change your clothes when you go in a second time, you might betray a lot of insecurity instead of the confidence a business person usually wishes to portray.


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## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> The problem is that if anyone sees you before you go in and you obviously change your clothes when you go in a second time, you might betray a lot of insecurity instead of the confidence a business person usually wishes to portray.


Thats it right there ! If you wear a tie DONT TAKE IT OFF. The weird thing would be to look at however many guys you first spy and assume they know something you dont. They are all rolling in as confused as you based on "cocktail casual". Maybe you are the only one who gets it right or a small group of you and the rest show up in shorts and sport shirts - either give a call or go by the book and then offer up no apologies and have no regrets.


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## Moose Maclennan (Apr 20, 2006)

I googled it. Apparently you will be on the safe side in a little black dress.


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## PinkPlaidSocks (May 1, 2008)

alex87tkd said:


> Then said person is a complete moron as apposed to a slight moron.


I would submit that any "moron" who doesn't obsess about men's clothing like we do would have no idea there even _is_ a code. I doubt that they would expect you to wear a tie if they put the word "casual" in the invitation. Having said that I'll repeat the advice I always give on this question: simply call and ask.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

I get the feeling that "cocktail casual" means no tie. But where on earth did the host come up with that phrase?


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## alex87tkd (Jun 12, 2009)

KenR said:


> I get the feeling that "cocktail casual" means no tie. But where on earth did the host come up with that phrase?


They most likely meant Cocktail Informal, unfortunately many people think you can substitute the word informal for casual. The fact is if it says "cocktail" then it is informal already. If it were formal/semi-formal, then white/black tie would be appropriate.

In short, it should just have said Cocktail.


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## JayGatsby (Mar 30, 2009)

KenR said:


> I get the feeling that "cocktail casual" means no tie. But where on earth did the host come up with that phrase?


I tend to agree. A dark suit without a tie will be just fine.


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## alex87tkd (Jun 12, 2009)

I say wear a tie. If they protest - tell them they should have worded the invite better.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

I'd say - wear an ascot, but I'm afraid some would throw their cocktails at me.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

You can, if you like, use this as an opportunity to demonstrate that you know more than the host, who is apparently a "moron", or you can try to go with the spirit of the thing.

I agree with Ken that in the real world, as opposed to the rarefied precincts of AAAC, most people using either "casual" or "informal" would be referring to some outfit that does not include a tie. The addition of "cocktail" suggests that they're thinking of something more festive and less drab than a business suit.

Probably the best approach is to call and ask. Failing that, maybe white pants and a blazer or seersucker jacket, coupled with a more colorful shirt or tie than usual, or maybe a blazer with a festive shirt and no tie would be the kind of thing they're thinking of.

I would never wear a suit without a tie, but if you're inclined to do so, make sure you wear the shirt buttoned all the way up to the top for the full Ahmadinejad look.

But since it is a business event, make sure that the people holding the affair know that you consider them to be "morons". People in business always want to associate with their betters, and to be corrected when they show their true moronic colors, so finding some subtle way of letting them know that you're smarter and more sophisticated than they are is a sure path to success in business.


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Their invitation dress code is a meaningless and misleading combination of words!


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## rmanoj (Mar 6, 2009)

jackmccullough, your point is clear enough. Was all the sarcasm really necessary?

I agree that "cocktail attire" would call for a dark suit and tie, but "cocktail casual", even though it is not one of the conventional dress codes with which we are familiar, clearly calls for something a bit more dressed down. I would wear a light-coloured summer suit (perhaps linen) and some summer shoes. Do wear a tie - you'll look better than the people trying to dress down dark business suits by omitting a tie whilst staying at roughly the same level of formality as them.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Preu Pummel said:


> I'd say - wear an ascot, but I'm afraid some would throw their cocktails at me.


Right. Wear an ascot to a business social event. Make sure you tell everyone that Cary Grant says it's okay.

Either tie or no tie.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> I would never wear a suit without a tie, but if you're inclined to do so, make sure you wear the shirt buttoned all the way up to the top for the full Ahmadinejad look.


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## KenR (Jun 22, 2005)

Preu Pummel said:


> I'd say - wear an ascot, but I'm afraid some would throw their cocktails at me.





forsbergacct2000 said:


> Right. Wear an ascot to a business social event. Make sure you tell everyone that Cary Grant says it's okay.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

See?

I rest my case.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Preu Pummel said:


> See?
> 
> I rest my case.


I probably made your case. I'm just cautious about the folks who would read about ascots being a normal dress item on our forum and setting themselves up for attention that may not be positive (and may mostly happen "behind the back.")

Experienced posters who know what they are getting themselves into are one category of person; people who are inexperienced who come here for advice may not know where following the advice of an experienced clothes horse (who may be indifferent to the opinions of others) may lead them.

Sorry. I can't support suggesting the wearing of ascots to a business event, although I do enjoy 99.9% of the Preu Pummel Posting Policies.


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## JayGatsby (Mar 30, 2009)

Preu Pummel said:


> I'd say - wear an ascot, but I'm afraid some would throw their cocktails at me.


What about a bow tie?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

If you live in an area where business people commonly wear them, or if you (and your company) are immune from the consequences of being too fashion forward, wear the bow tie. Otherwise, it may not be a good idea at a business function - all this probably depends on your business and your role in it.

If you have to ask, this may not be the place to wear a bow tie either.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Sorry. I can't support suggesting the wearing of ascots to a business event, although I do enjoy 99.9% of the Preu Pummel Posting Policies.


 Thanks. I did post it to troll out the Ascot Neanderthals.

But, I would agree with the last thing you posted about fitting in and figuring out the crowd you are in. The Hollywood creative crowd, particularly younger ones, would elevate a person showing up with an ascot or bowtie these days, unless they are in hard rock music.

In financial or law, I doubt the ascot would be the best choice unless the cocktail party is about being "hep". There are always those crowds of young professionals fretting that they are selling out their souls to the big business just to get a paycheck and an easy life... they try to revel in experimental cool one last time, thrashing in style before they give up the ghost and blend into the grey shades brigade of company men.


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> If you live in an area where business people commonly wear them, or if you (and your company) are immune from the consequences of being too fashion forward, wear the bow tie.


The bow tie has not been fashion-forward in my grandfather's lifetime.


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## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

amplifiedheat said:


> The bow tie has not been fashion-forward in my grandfather's lifetime.


Bowties are considered quite fashion forward right now, but it all depends on the tie itself, and more importantly the outfit you are wearing it with.

This ain't your grandfather's bowtie.

https://www.swaggerparis.com/media/2009/04/thomas-legrandpalais.jpg

Note - I do not endorse either of the above looks. I only submit them for evidenciary purposes.


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

It might be my grandfather's bow tie, but it certainly isn't his ugly shirt, ugly pocket square, ugly jacket, or ugly glasses.

Thanks for posting. I think we can consider it a cautionary example.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

amplifiedheat said:


> The bow tie has not been fashion-forward in my grandfather's lifetime.


They also have not been worn by more than about 1% of men, especially in business during the last half of it.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Now, come on. Of all the bowtie wearers I have ever seen in real life, none ever dressed like this. Not even CLOSE. They looked like men in normal business clothes, but they had a bowtie on which was generally a very conservative pattern.


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## flatline (Dec 22, 2008)

Preu Pummel said:


> Now, come on. Of all the bowtie wearers I have ever seen in real life, none ever dressed like this. Not even CLOSE. They looked like men in normal business clothes, but they had a bowtie on which was generally a very conservative pattern.


Obviously that ridiculous getup is at the utmost end of the 'fashion forward' label. However, I stand by my assessment, as even somewhat conservative outfits bedecked in bowties are considered 'fashion forward' by the majority of the public.


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## NEW_Rome (Oct 29, 2008)

Perhaps some more information about the event would have been helpful...

The event will be hosted in San Francisco for the launch party of a green-energy loan agency. My boss (who is throwing the party) intimately knows the elite of San Fransisco, and could be considered to be one. The event is geared primarily towards our investors.

Thank you for the current suggestions, and please continue


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

flatline said:


> ...I stand by my assessment, as even somewhat conservative outfits bedecked in bowties are considered 'fashion forward' by the majority of the public.


These are pretty close to ridiculous as well, and the use of the bowtie in these semi-hobo outfits isn't helping. I could frame any piece of clothing with outfits filled with ill fit, oddly colored and combined items, and claim the critical item is obtuse.

However, they are fashion forward on the right people, but fashion backwards on others. And on some who wear them properly, they are quite proper.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Preu Pummel said:


> These are pretty close to ridiculous as well, and the use of the bowtie in these semi-hobo outfits isn't helping. I could frame any piece of clothing with outfits filled with ill fit, oddly colored and combined items, and claim the critical item is obtuse.
> 
> However, they are fashion forward on the right people, but fashion backwards on others. And on some who wear them properly, they are quite proper.


But may or may not be the right thing to wear to a business function. I don't live in San Francisco, but it's possible the bow tie might be an okay thing to do there. I know it would really be pushing the edge where I live. (It's also possible the boss is planning a tieless, casual get together, though.)


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## alex87tkd (Jun 12, 2009)

NEW_Rome said:


> Perhaps some more information about the event would have been helpful...
> 
> The event will be hosted in San Francisco for the launch party of a green-energy loan agency. My boss (who is throwing the party) intimately knows the elite of San Fransisco, and could be considered to be one. The event is geared primarily towards our investors.
> 
> Thank you for the current suggestions, and please continue


Is it possible to ask your colleges what they intend to wear?

I still say good suit, shirt, tie and shoes.


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## SlowE30 (Mar 18, 2008)

Someone else (here?) once said, of "business casual": "asking people to creatively interpret an oxymoron is asking for trouble." Sounds like the same applies to "cocktail casual."

I say suit and tie to be safe. The event sounds like it calls for that, even though when I think of green energy investors and San Fran I think more of designer hemp t-shirts.


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## DPC3 (Jun 15, 2009)

The information on the invitation is misleading as others have mentioned because cocktail is a level of etiquette as is casual. My opinion is that cocktail casual would indicate dressed down cocktail. If it were me I would wear a coat with a shirt, tie, and dress trousers. I think it would be nice to wear a well thought out sports coat such as a camel hair sports coat perhaps with a paisley earth toned tie. I think a contrasting trouser coordinated to the tie would work well. I mean to coordinate the pants, pocket square, tie and shirt. I think you would look really good this way.
-DPC3


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

Based on the additional information, this might be one of those rare chances to wear that black shirt you have always wanted to wear . . .

:aportnoy:


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## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

flatline said:


> However, I stand by my assessment, as even somewhat conservative outfits bedecked in bowties are considered 'fashion forward' by the majority of the public.


For the man in the street, bow ties remain broadly associated with conservativism (i.e. George Will or Tucker Carlson), education (i.e. college professors), and eccentricity (i.e. college professors.) The fact that a minority of hipsters and fashionistas have latched onto it has not had an appreciable effect.


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## J.Marko (Apr 14, 2009)

I also associate them with skinny, nervous, short men for some reason. Perhaps just personal experience. 

They don't look good on large men or men with prominent chests, in my opinion - my avatar aside.


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