# Shirt review Harvie & Hudson vs. TM Lewin



## smile (Jul 2, 2007)

Thought I´d share my experience with both shirtmakers. I know there are alot of threads about both, but perhaps somebody finds it useful.

I am 178cm tall and weigh 78kg with an athletic build. My collar size is 15.5 and my sleeve length 34-35 inches.

I ordered 3 Harvie Hudson formal shirts and 3 Lewin formal shirts. H & H at size 15.5/35 and Lewin at 15.5/34.5. Washed them once at 30 degrees and ironed them.

Fit:
Lewin fits me very well in the chest and shoulder, could be a little tighter in the waist, but not enough to take them to my alteration tailor. Collar size is quite tight right now, next time i will order 16 inch. Sleeve length is ok, but cannot wear them like i love, which is cuffs (all shirts button cuffs btw) pretty tight and sleeves with a little bit of extra length for freedom of movement. Buttons on cuffs are positioned very wide, my whole hand can slip through without opening them. I will make them a little tighter, but not much.

H&H collar size and sleeve length fits perfectly, very nice. First british rtw shirt where the cuffs fit perfectly tight around my wrists (18cm circumference), all other were (much) too wide. Fit in the body AND arms is, well, lets say blousy. Definitely a case for my alterations tailor. Had two of the new H&H shirts there already, now they fit almost like a bespoke shirt, i really love them now.

Fabric:

H&H way above Lewin, absolutely no contest. Lewin is not bad, but H&H poplin cloth has a really great feel. Also much easier to iron and wrinkles less during the day.

Collar, Cuffs:

The spread of Lewin "Prince of Wales" collar is a tad nicer, a little more spread than H&H´s regular collar and Collar points a little longer. But all in all I like them both. Both collars are neither hard nor soft, just right. Lewin´s cuffs are very soft and H&H´s are soft, which is a quality I like and look for in cuffs.

Buttons:
Lewin thin plastic buttons, H&H even thinner MOP buttons. To me thin buttons are so much more elegant AND practical than thick ones. So obviously my vote goes to H&H.

Costs:

With shipping and little alterations (cuff Buttons) one Lewin shirt cost me 45 euros (ca. 67 $).
With shipping and alterations in body and arms (both taken in) one H&H shirt cost me 60 Euros (ca. 90$).

All shirts were bought during sale (25 British pounds for Lewin, 30 for H&H)

In the future i will stay with H&H. After the necessary alterations they are gorgeous shirts. For 60 Euros it is hard for me to imagine getting something equivalent. Actually right now i like them better than some of my bespoke shirts for 200 Euros (300$).


If you have any more questions about the shirts just ask.

Bye Bye


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## encyclopedia (Jan 3, 2008)

I for 1 am curious why u r comparing lewing and hh sale shirts when u r already getting bespoke shirts? Any reason aside from price? And on the price front do u really think 6 shirts u might not like is cheaper than 2(ish) u know u will?

Am really asking and not suggesting u made a good or bad choice...I'm reconsidering some of by clothes buying habits "just because" and running through these questions myself right now.


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## smile (Jul 2, 2007)

Am a shirt fetishist. My goal is a 50 shirt rotation of shirts i really like. Building that with bespoke shirts would just take too long. My two nicest shirts are still bespoke ones from incredible old mill fabric which feels like silk but is pure cotton. 
But like i told above, H&H after alteration holds his own. Fit, Collar, fabric, buttons, construction, just a pretty damn good shirt. For less than third of the price of bespoke, its a steal in my mind.


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*I have both T.M. Lewin and H&H shirts....*

IMO Lewin can't compare with H&H. Lewin cost me 25 BPS less VAT; H&H 30 BPS less VAT. You can't buy a US shirt of any quality for the price of H&H, even with the horrendous exchange rate. I have no problems with wrist diameter since I only wear French cuffs. Wouldn't buy lewin again, but will H&H when I need shirts. H&H is just about the best English shirt I have had. I say just about because I like my Duchamp of London shirts a tad better, but Duchamp is much more expensive.


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## Tonyp (May 8, 2007)

Nice comparison. very helpful. I recently bought 2 lewin luxury fabric shirts. I thought they were nice. good construction. Fabric is actually too heavy for me here in LA, CA. I have not tried the H&H but have heard the same, that they are much better. How is the slim fit vs. the regular fit of H&H. Maybe this is a better alternative than having them tailored? I tried Lewin because I wanted an alternative to $200-$450 shirts from italy that I have purchased. I think the fit of the italian shirts otr is much better than the Lewin or the H&H based on your discussion. Still interested in the H&H slim fit.


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## smile (Jul 2, 2007)

dfloyd said:


> IMO Lewin can't compare with H&H. Lewin cost me 25 BPS less VAT; H&H 30 BPS less VAT. You can't buy a US shirt of any quality for the price of H&H, even with the horrendous exchange rate. I have no problems with wrist diameter since I only wear French cuffs. Wouldn't buy lewin again, but will H&H when I need shirts. H&H is just about the best English shirt I have had. I say just about because I like my Duchamp of London shirts a tad better, but Duchamp is much more expensive.


I´m with you regarding H&H. Tried Hawes & Curtis, Lewin, Pink and H&H from the british rtw shirtmakers and H&H is better than any of those at a reasonable price (during sale).
I think wrist diameter is much more of a problem with French cuffs than with button cuffs. Buttons can be relocated but the diameter of a french cuff is fixed. If its too wide, the sleeves come down too far on your hand and it has the weird "shirt of big brother" look. You can do nothing to fix that problem. Lewin and H&C have much too wide wrist diameters on their buttoncuffs, so my guess is their French cuffs are too wide, too. H&H had perfect wrist diameter on their button cuff, so I might try one French Cuff shirt in the future from them.


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## smile (Jul 2, 2007)

Tonyp said:


> Nice comparison. very helpful. I recently bought 2 lewin luxury fabric shirts. I thought they were nice. good construction. Fabric is actually too heavy for me here in LA, CA. I have not tried the H&H but have heard the same, that they are much better. How is the slim fit vs. the regular fit of H&H. Maybe this is a better alternative than having them tailored? I tried Lewin because I wanted an alternative to $200-$450 shirts from italy that I have purchased. I think the fit of the italian shirts otr is much better than the Lewin or the H&H based on your discussion. Still interested in the H&H slim fit.


No experience with H&H slim fit shirts. I generally prefer button cuffs, which i Think are not offered in slim fit and also choice of fabrics, colours and sizes is very limited. 
My alteration tailor charges 10 Euros (15 $) for one shirt to take in sides and arms. I´m willing to pay that and he does it really good.


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## meister (Oct 29, 2005)

smile said:


> I´m with you Lewin and H&C have much too wide wrist diameters on their buttoncuffs, so my guess is their French cuffs are too wide, too.


I have thick wrists and find the Lewin shirts in French Cuffs are also too wide...


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## speedster (Jan 13, 2008)

smile said:


> Thought I´d share my experience with both shirtmakers. I know there are alot of threads about both, but perhaps somebody finds it useful.
> 
> If you have any more questions about the shirts just ask.
> 
> Bye Bye


PICTURES, say more than a 1000 words ...


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## Calle (Jun 5, 2008)

I really like H&H.

A few months ago I started getting interested in more refined and classic clothing, instead of H&M and such. The thirst for decent shirts grew, and I bought three shirts from H&H, one was slim fit. I'm amazed by the quality, and I wear them a lot.

Two weeks ago I bought three more shirts, 2 linen BD and one "classic"wine bengal striped. The linen ones disappointed me a bit, due to the lack of MOP buttons and a very transparent cloth (my nipples were visable), so I had them replaced by a white OCDB and a yellow end to end BD.

With just 18 years in life, and only a couple of months in clothing, my shirt experiences are minimal compared to yours, but I can truly recommend H&H to everyone.


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## ilikeyourstyle (Apr 24, 2007)

smile said:


> Lewin and H&C have much too wide wrist diameters on their buttoncuffs, so my guess is their French cuffs are too wide, too. H&H had perfect wrist diameter on their button cuff, so I might try one French Cuff shirt in the future from them.


I find the Lewin slim-fit French cuff diameters to be quite nice for me. They definitely fit more snugly than my Tyrwhitt slim-fit shirts and slim fits I have purchased from Banana Republic or other American retailers.

Numercially:
Lewin - 16 neck - 35 sleeve - 8.0 inches from the centre of one cufflink hole to the other
Tyrwhitt - 15.5 neck - 35 sleeve - 8.7 inches around the wrist
Banana Republic - medium (15.75 neck/34.5 sleeve) - 8.5 inches around the wrist


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## smile (Jul 2, 2007)

I avoid slim fit shirts since having 2 or 3 bad experiences with them. While they fit better in the waist than regular shirts, they usually are too tight/narrow for me in chest/shoulder/upper back and I cannot move my arms properly.

@calle
I have the wine bengal striped too! Lovely color isn´t it? Like it especially to my dark chocolate brown corduroy suit. Also a nice variation for grey and blue suits other than the usual whites, blues and pinks.


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## Blakewho (May 16, 2008)

Very interesting comparison Smile, especially as I have virtually identical measurements to you, apart from slightly shorter arms.

I recently bought my first H&H shirt (slim-fit) and was very impressed by the quality of the fabric and the collar, which suits me perfectly. Being very slim around the torso I could still do with a slimmer body fit though. Maybe its time for me to take my shirts to an alterations tailor too. I presume shortening the tail wouldn't be an issue.


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## encyclopedia (Jan 3, 2008)

smile said:


> Am a shirt fetishist. My goal is a 50 shirt rotation of shirts i really like. Building that with bespoke shirts would just take too long. My two nicest shirts are still bespoke ones from incredible old mill fabric which feels like silk but is pure cotton.
> But like i told above, H&H after alteration holds his own. Fit, Collar, fabric, buttons, construction, just a pretty damn good shirt. For less than third of the price of bespoke, its a steal in my mind.


Ok thanks for the opinion(s). I used rtw shirts to figure out my style, try new patterns/collars/colors/etc, what sort of fit I like etc. But then I sort of took that info and settled down bespoke. are your bespoke shirts (or planned commissions) more of the white+broad cloth+spread collar+double cuff+work/wedding variety or the green silk+band collar+six button cuff+because I can and love it variety?


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## smile (Jul 2, 2007)

encyclopedia said:


> Ok thanks for the opinion(s). I used rtw shirts to figure out my style, try new patterns/collars/colors/etc, what sort of fit I like etc. But then I sort of took that info and settled down bespoke. are your bespoke shirts (or planned commissions) more of the white+broad cloth+spread collar+double cuff+work/wedding variety or the green silk+band collar+six button cuff+because I can and love it variety?


My bespoke shirts are in the first category you listed. Not a "green silk"  guy. Like understatement more than drawing undue attention. Joyful british stripes is as far as I go. Lots of plains and stripes, a few checks, to me thats all a man needs.


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## Twinspeare (May 3, 2007)

H&H shirt collars have repeatedly been described as rather stiff & rigid on this forum. Is this so in your experience?

Background: I don't have any experience of H&H shirts and shrink from trying them because I like my collars relatively soft. I find TML (popelin) collars ideal in terms of collar softness, i.e. they're quite thin/soft (only the popelin ones, NOT their so-called "luxury" fabric ones), but I dislike their combination of rather wide spread + tie-space.


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## robb01 (Oct 27, 2008)

Great review, Ive had a couple of these shirts and found them to be pretty good


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## smile (Jul 2, 2007)

Twinspeare said:


> H&H shirt collars have repeatedly been described as rather stiff & rigid on this forum. Is this so in your experience?
> 
> Background: I don't have any experience of H&H shirts and shrink from trying them because I like my collars relatively soft. I find TML (popelin) collars ideal in terms of collar softness, i.e. they're quite thin/soft (only the popelin ones, NOT their so-called "luxury" fabric ones), but I dislike their combination of rather wide spread + tie-space.


It´s not much more rigid than TML´s. The spread is a bit narrower. I have lots of shirts with stiffer collars (bespoke, Hawes & Curtis, Pink). To me the H&H collar is perfectly soft and smooth around my neck, but stiff enough to be not "sloppy".


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

I used to find Lewin tight in the collar.

The collar tips also had a tendency to curl under. Cloth itself was fine.

Harvie & Hudson cloth quality varies. One of a batch creased very easily and was dreadful to iron. Others were OK. Fit in the collar is good.

HH better than Lewin; but Hilditch even better if you can pay more.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

H&H better value than Lewin for me too. Have you tried Cole's? No shirt fetishist can afford to ignore them!


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## smile (Jul 2, 2007)

Rich said:


> H&H better value than Lewin for me too. Have you tried Cole's? No shirt fetishist can afford to ignore them!


I might be interested in their classic collar but was wondering if this collar isn´t somewhat small? I like moderate spread collars that are not to small. My favorite RTW collar is Lewins Prince of Wales, still the whole package of H&H is better.
What can you tell me about Coles classic collar?

PS: Does Coles do sale and what is their price during sale?


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## The Sartorial Executive (Apr 19, 2008)

Are the H&H collars fused?


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## smr (Apr 24, 2005)

The Sartorial Executive said:


> Are the H&H collars fused?


No, they are not.


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## Monorailcat (Aug 26, 2008)

just purchased my first H&H shirt, a purple gingham one, i am very much anticipating its arrival. I own and love turnbull and asser, so i hope these are equally pleasing to wear


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

smile said:


> I might be interested in their classic collar but was wondering if this collar isn´t somewhat small? I like moderate spread collars that are not to small. My favorite RTW collar is Lewins Prince of Wales, still the whole package of H&H is better.
> What can you tell me about Coles classic collar?
> 
> PS: Does Coles do sale and what is their price during sale?


The Coles classic collar sits higher and is a little smaller and a little more pointed than L or H&H. Very classic in fact. The collar is better finished, with finer stitching, and the lining seems to be of better quality. They cost a little more than L or H&H; sale prices are typically 20-30% off.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

Monorailcat said:


> just purchased my first H&H shirt, a purple gingham one, i am very much anticipating its arrival. I own and love turnbull and asser, so i hope these are equally pleasing to wear


Goodness, I thought you were offline for maintenance!!!



Rich said:


> The Coles classic collar sits higher and is a little smaller and a little more pointed than L or H&H. Very classic in fact. The collar is better finished, with finer stitching, and the lining seems to be of better quality. They cost a little more than L or H&H; sale prices are typically 20-30% off.


And allegedly RL based his spread collars on Coles' model... way, way back in the day...


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