# Special Ops on CBS - The Unit



## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

On tonight (Tuesday) Produced and written bt Mamet. Based on a great book by Sgt. Maj Eric Haney (Ret.), a founding member of Delta in '78. Saw last weeks premiere and was not impressed. Am being told it gets better.


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## Doctor Damage (Feb 18, 2005)

Is that written by _David_ Mamet?


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Sorry, I'm from Chicago. When we say Mamet...we assume you know it's David Mamet. Yes. David Mamet. Check it out.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460690/


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

President Palmer needs to go back to 24. Saw the first episode, wasn't overly impressed. The writting doesn't seem to be equal to the subject material of the show.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Having seen just the previews, it seemed a bit like the plot of True Lies, serialized.

But I think I'll check it out.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> Sorry, I'm from Chicago. When we say Mamet...we assume you know it's David Mamet. Yes. David Mamet. Check it out.
> 
> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460690/


That's not just Chicago. I immediately assumed David.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Hmm, Episode 2 was also pretty bad. A shame. Great potential here.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> Hmm, Episode 2 was also pretty bad. A shame. Great potential here.


Bad...you're being polite.


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Yeah, I am. But I have high hopes for this. Haney's book, Inside Delta, was great. Mamet is the creator and producer. Ryan, from The Shield, is co producer... all of that screams, "Can't miss." But it does.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

Mamet has lost a lot of what he once was. If anyone has seen "Spartan" you would know what I mean. That movie was awful. IT was like David Lynch tried to do a straight terrorist movie. The odd dialogue did not fit with the plot at all. Instead of being an interesting and edgy take on terrorist movies, it was a formulaic action film with dialogue that sounded like it was written by a beat poet.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

have to say, I saw it and liked it. there are several questions that I have about its reality that I simply don't know how it works in america- for instance there don't seem to be any luetenants around, and more importantly, I would think that in a military the size of the US's there would be specialized units for different things. 

I like the fact that the families are involved, and I have to say that the stress between the wives and the husbands over the husbands work and the politics of the wives is very close to my experience.


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## PennGlock (Mar 14, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by tintin_
> 
> On tonight (Tuesday) Produced and written bt Mamet. Based on a great book by Sgt. Maj Eric Haney (Ret.), a founding member of Delta in '78. Saw last weeks premiere and was not impressed. Am being told it gets better.


I found this article about Haney interesting:

Delta Force Veterans Slam Claims Of 'The Unit' Writer
Skip directly to the full story.
By RICHARD LARDNER [email protected]

Published: Apr 11, 2006

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Eric Haney has made much out of his time as a member of Delta Force, America's clandestine counterterrorism outfit.

Way too much, according to former Delta Force officers and operators, who say Haney has embellished his rÃ©sumÃ© and fabricated other parts of his military career on his way to becoming an acclaimed author and a key contributor to the CBS television series "The Unit."

Now, as Haney's star rises in Hollywood and throughout the mainstream media, some who served with him say they've had enough. They're going public with withering critiques, describing Haney as a self-serving pretender seeking fame and money.

"It's always disturbing when a former member of the organization does something that lacks integrity," said retired Army Lt. Col. Lewis "Bucky" Burruss, who was assigned to Delta in November 1977 when the organization was formally activated.

Logan Fitch, Haney's former Delta squadron commander, said Haney's comments and conduct since he left the military more than a decade ago have earned him "persona non grata" status. He is banned from Delta facilities, reunions and commemorative events.

"I don't know of any [ex-Delta troops] who are sympathetic to Haney," said Fitch, who joined Delta shortly after Burruss did.

"I have no problem with him capitalizing on his experience, but he should be factual. I view him as a crass opportunist interested in personal gain," he said.

"The Unit," which premiered March 7 and has received solid Nielsen ratings, is based on Haney's autobiography, "Inside Delta Force." The show airs Tuesday evenings, and Haney is the program's supervising producer, technical adviser and co-writer.

Published in May 2002, "Inside Delta Force" advertises Haney as a "founding member" of the organization.

The book is filled with gripping accounts of Delta's brutal physical and psychological training regimen, the tight bonds forged among the troops, and top-secret missions to desolate locations, including the failed 1980 attempt to rescue U.S. hostages in Iran.

One of the most compelling episodes involves a Nicaraguan-born Army Green Beret whom Haney befriended while both were trying out for Delta in the fall of 1978. Five years later, Haney wrote, he would encounter this U.S. soldier-turned-Sandinista commando on a mountaintop in Honduras and kill him with a rifle shot during an intense firefight.

Burruss said he has never read Haney's book and never will. He's certain, though, the episode did not occur.

"It didn't happen. Period," said Burruss, who became Delta's deputy commander in June 1983 and spent nine years with the supersecret organization.

Mel Wick agreed with Burruss. Wick was assigned to Delta in November 1977 and served 16 years with the unit. He spent the last 3 1/2 as Delta's highest-ranking enlisted operator.

"He did not encounter his 'selection course roommate' - or anyone else - in the jungles of Central America and kill him," Wick wrote in a March 8 e-mail to the Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly after Haney appeared on "The O'Reilly Factor."

Haney "consistently takes credit for missions he was never on and things he never did in his book and in his public appearances," Wick's message said.

Wick provided the e-mail to The Tampa Tribune but declined to comment further.

Haney did not respond to a request for an interview, but provided a brief comment through his literary agent, Frank Weimann.

"I have nothing but respect for my former comrades," Haney said. "But I stand by everything in my book."

Weimann, an agent with The Literary Group International in New York, said Haney "doesn't feel the need to engage in pointless rhetoric."

"This is a newer version of Swift Boating," Weimann said, referring to the campaign by Navy Vietnam veterans to discredit 2004 presidential candidate John Kerry's military service.

Before joining Delta Force, Haney was an Army Ranger. William Sears, a retired staff sergeant who served with him in the 1st Ranger Battalion, said Haney is being criticized unfairly.

"Eric is not a liar. He's not anti-American," Sears said. "The fact that he's got a different opinion is what has gotten him into trouble with these people."

No Co-Founders
To those unfamiliar with the Delta fraternity, Haney casting himself as one of Delta's founding members might seem a minor infraction, a question of semantics. To those present at the creation, however, the claim is blasphemy.

"The only founder of the Delta Force was Charlie Beckwith," Burruss said. "There were no co-founders."

Haney was assigned to Delta in December 1978, according to Burruss, nearly 13 months after the organization was established. Haney would not become a qualified Delta operator until mid-1979.

Beckwith, a charismatic and controversial Army colonel, risked his career fighting for a more flexible special operations organization - one able to adapt quickly to unconventional threats such as an airplane hijacking.

Eventually, top military leaders directed Beckwith to create a counterterrorism team that would specialize in quick-strike, hostage-rescue missions. The hypersecret unit was named 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta. More simply, it was called Delta Force.

Beckwith died of natural causes in 1994 at age 65.

His daughter, Connie Beckwith Howe, has kept close ties with many of the soldiers picked by Beckwith to get Delta up and running. She has never met or spoken to Haney.

"People think he helped my dad start the unit, and he didn't," she said. "I haven't read Haney's book, and I don't care to."

Haney spent eight years with Delta Force, according to his book. In 1986, because of the mental and physical demands of the job, he was wrestling with whether to stay. Then, in rapid order, he received promotions to sergeant major and then command sergeant major, the highest rank an enlisted soldier can achieve in the Army.

With room for only one command sergeant major at Delta, Haney said, the decision effectively was made for him. He asked for an assignment with an infantry unit and eventually retired from the Army in 1990.

A page from one of his final Delta efficiency reports is reprinted in his book. Haney is called an "outstanding" member of the organization, a soldier who is "tough, quiet and exceptionally talented."

Who thought so highly of Haney is not known, however, because the rater's name is not included on the document.

Average Performer
Wick said Haney never got above a four-man team leader position with Delta. His promotions to sergeant major and command sergeant major came after he left the organization, Wick said.

"He was a mediocre performer at best and not highly regarded by other unit members," Wick wrote in his e-mail to O'Reilly. "He liked to talk about how good he was instead of living it everyday."

Given Delta's demanding standards, mediocre would have made Haney a star in almost any other combat unit, Wick said, alluding to the caliber of Delta's personnel.

Released less than a year after the Sept. 11 attacks, "Inside Delta Force" received stellar reviews for providing a still-stunned American public with insights about the elite organization that was tracking Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaida associates.

With his counterterrorism background and willingness to share details, Haney began appearing on national radio and television news programs, including "The O'Reilly Factor," "Inside Edition" and "Larry King Live."

In 2003, Haney met and began working with writer/director David Mamet on one of Mamet's film projects. That led to a creative collaboration that resulted in "The Unit," according to information posted on the CBS Web site.

The action drama "follows a covert team of Special Forces operatives as they risk their lives on undercover missions around the globe, while their families maintain the home front, protecting their husbands' secrets," according to CBS.

The network has ordered 13 episodes of the program.

20th Century Fox Television is producing "The Unit." Company spokesman Chris Alexander would not say how much Haney is being paid, citing a longstanding practice of not discussing contract compensation.

Beyond the show, Haney has emerged as a sharp critic of the war in Iraq, telling the Los Angeles Daily News last month that President Bush had launched an "utter debacle" and "may well have started the third world war."

Credibility Questioned
Fitch, the former Delta squadron commander, said Haney's credibility to make such statements is undermined by inaccuracies in his book.

When Delta Force landed in the Iranian desert in April 1980 to stage the rescue of more than 50 Americans taken hostage months earlier, the Americans encountered a bus full of civilians traveling down a dirt road.

The bus was stopped and boarded by Delta operators. According to Haney's account, Fitch led the way. As he neared the rear of the bus, a young Iranian "jumped up and punched Logan in the nose," Haney wrote.

That never happened, Fitch said.

"If someone had hit me, I probably would have shot him," he said.

"I read 'Inside Delta Force' once, put it down in disgust and haven't picked it up since," Fitch said.

Dick Davis spent 15 years in Delta Force, succeeding Wick as the unit's command sergeant major in 1994. Davis said Haney has been trying to profit from his Delta experience since the mid-1990s, when he tried to claim copyright to the organization's emblem, a sword overlaid by a triangle-shaped thunderbolt.

Other individuals were responsible for the logo design, Davis said, and Haney's claim was rejected.

Haney's book revealed too much about the organization's inner workings, potentially putting people and programs at risk, he said.

"I don't have a lot time for Eric Haney," Davis said. "What he has done is break faith with the troops."

In a statement to The Tampa Tribune, the top spokesman at U.S. Special Operations Command noted that service members who have access to classified information are required to sign an agreement stating they will not disclose that information.

But Army Col. Sam Taylor would not say whether Haney's book violated that agreement. Military authorities were not given an opportunity to review "Inside Delta Force" before it was published, he said, but the command "and other government entities" did review it afterward.

Those authorities determined, "based on various factors, that no further action was warranted at that time," Taylor said.

"The book may, as with all books that purport to reveal historical events from an individual perspective, be biased, incomplete, contain elements of questionable accuracy or simply be wrong," he said. "Socom does not intend to specifically identify those areas."


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Tin Tin

Airborne my friend. How are you.
Penn Glock, It was Charlie Beckwith, alone that set up Delta, much sooner than 1977, as you stated. It was called Blue Light in the beginnings. There were many players at Bragg involved with him, but he was the sole person responsible for it.
Charlie was a hot one, for the senior brass.
During the early days, the unit deployed, rather quickly, to the desert, on the failed raid.
Dust/Marine choppers, led to the demise of this raid.
Charlie had a lot of support rom Bragg, a lot.
COL Rybat, or Rybah was a proponnent for the team, but not a co founder.
I was one that was fortunate, to go to cross train with the 22nd SAS, during this time, actually 1973-74.
Charlie was a doer, one who got the job done.
He had vision, was anxious to get the freaking thing started.
There are a lot of people, who did not like him. They did not like the support he was getting from Jack MacMull and so forth. 
I believe his daughter married a delta type.
Bragg was a beautiful place then, great to soldier there, and serve with the very best!

De Opresso Liber

Nice day my friend


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## tiger02 (Dec 12, 2004)

Not surprised that there's been a backlash. It would be fun to think that it's been orchestrated because Haney's spoken out against the war but I think the betrayal of trust and self aggrandizement are what's really bringing it on. Where did the co-founder claims come from? A large part of the book deals with his recruitment and attempt to join Delta. So he may not correct people, but I don't think he's the originator.

Zach--no LTs because you can't go to selection until you're a CPT. Actually that changed within the last couple of years, now you can go as a 1LT, but after schooling will have been promoted to CPT by the time you arrive.

Tom

--------------------
Death is...whimsical...today


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

I have not read the book. I enjoy historical books, those that come out of the West Point library for instance.
I do know, in the early years, SGM Shumate was the first, with Beckwith.This is when things were developing.
Again, this was during the 1977 time frame, they just got set up in the stocade around that time as well.
Officers were CPT, a Ishimato was the first Operations Officer with Beckwith.
I credit Beckwith with what he was doing, again, he had a lot of love from the senior brass, many enemies as well.
Those that did not enjoy the SF community.
Ayway gentlemen, enjoy your day

De Oppresso Liber
Airborne!


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

I've seen the show and thought it was horrible. E-ring is much better.

M8

_I've seen so much in so many places
So many heartaches, so many faces
So many dirty things
You couldn't even believe_


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_
> Zach--no LTs because you can't go to selection until you're a CPT. Actually that changed within the last couple of years, now you can go as a 1LT, but after schooling will have been promoted to CPT by the time you arrive.
> 
> Tom
> ...


_

I see - in the IDF you can't become an officer in a good unit until you have spent at the very least 3 months as a grunt and 3 months as a sargent in that unit. it is more likely to be 6 months or a year as a grunt and then 3 months as a sargent. so you would get the officers back after Officer school, since they did their training as privates. these units, in the IDF, are usually very lt. heavy, because it is very common to have all of the company commanders in a brigade comming from being platoon leaders in a recon force - the special units are seen as great places to train officers.

the other thing that I am guessing is not accurate is how unfocussed the missions seem to be. in the IDF a special team has a very focused job - for instance reconosance in snow, or rescuing downed pilots under fire - and that is all they are going to do, although they may serve as a swat team for a specific city as well. this "unit" seems to do all sorts of crap. I am guessing that is just to keep the show from being as boring as peacetime soldiering is, right?_


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## whnay. (Dec 30, 2004)

1st SFOD or Delta Force as its commonly known specializes in hostage rescue but their mission profile can include everything from high value targeting (think Saddam's sons) to undercover recon. The group has been slightly augmented over the past two years (including a new unit designation which is non-public) to better deal with the GWOT, most current and former members would tell you that recent casualty rates in Iraq and Afghanistan have diluted the pool of quality operators and the recent push at the Pentagon to enlarge the force has come with stiff opposition.

___________

"My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income." 
~Errol Flynn


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by whnay._
> 
> 1st SFOD or Delta Force as its commonly known specializes in hostage rescue but their mission profile can include everything from high value targeting (think Saddam's sons) to undercover recon. The group has been slightly augmented over the past two years (including a new unit designation which is non-public) to better deal with the GWOT, most current and former members would tell you that recent casualty rates in Iraq and Afghanistan have diluted the pool of quality operators and the recent push at the Pentagon to enlarge the force has come with stiff opposition.
> 
> ...


You may be referring to TF6[?], which I think is also called Gray Fox. Special Forces itself (Green Berets) now has direct access from what I understand. This includes their own basic training. If the entry candidate fails the SF basic training, then they revert back to regular army status and go to the regular basic. *tiger02* may have a better handle on what is current.

When I was in the military the normal passage into SF was through light infantry units and/or Airborne units. Most would not be sent to the JFK school at Bragg until they made E-5. Hence most of the lower ranking enlisted men in SF were already seasoned. Same with officers, one could not get into SF unless one was a 1LT, no butter bars allowed. Same applied to Ranger Battalions at the time. When I went thru Ranger school we had no one below the rank of E-4, and then we only had one E-4 because he was deemed to be a special case. Everybody else was E-5 or higher. We did have a couple of captains in my class, but none graduated. At the time most army captains were 25+ years old. That's almost too old for Ranger school. It is young man's game. Most left due to injury. We started with about 220, and graduated maybe 80. Most left in the first few days.

In an effort to augment, SF now has direct access. However, I do not think it has become watered down.

M8

_I've seen so much in so many places
So many heartaches, so many faces
So many dirty things
You couldn't even believe_


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## whnay. (Dec 30, 2004)

RE: Watered down

I'll just put it this way, there are only so many ways to inflitrate a building filled with hostiles. 

As far as candidates, most A-team leaders being graduated today are CPT with age ranges of 27 - 35. SFOD has been recruiting from Ranger regiments as well as a-teams targeting specific skill sets to fill voids.

___________

"My problem lies in reconciling my gross habits with my net income." 
~Errol Flynn


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

White Thread Class of 1981. I'm in the lower right, circled.

Check out the BCGs some of the guys are wearing. Are those TRAD? 

M8

https://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b333/Martinisat8/b2528530.jpg

_I've seen so much in so many places
So many heartaches, so many faces
So many dirty things
You couldn't even believe_


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Martinis at 8_
> 
> White Thread Class of 1981. I'm in the lower right, circled.
> 
> ...


in the IDF each of the units that could be called special forces - basically either recon, anti terror or sonething very specialiased, for intstance the undercover units that go in dressed like arabs and stop the most wanted terrorists, or units that specialize in naval boardings, all do their own recruitment and then the recruits do basic traning with sargents and officers from the unit, but on basic training bases that belong to a light infantry brigade. after 6 months basic, their is another 6 months to a year of training, with the unit, and then, at 18 months to 2 years, you are a grunt. after 3 to 6 months, you go to seargeants school, and then eitehr go back to being a grunt or serve as a sargeant, and then you can keep on as a seargeant or go to officer school. the best of those come back to their own units, others are then seeded back to light infantry.

I wasn't in the best company - I was probrably in the 4th best. in our selection, it was about 1 out of 5 made it to the paratroopers brigade, then 1 out of about 20 made it into the recon team, and then about 1 out of 3 finished the training. in the really competative teams, that can easiely be 3 times as many people competing for each spot.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

Back on topic, does anyone else find _The Unit_ to be a dorky, unrealistic, bs show?

M8

_I've seen so much in so many places
So many heartaches, so many faces
So many dirty things
You couldn't even believe_


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Martinis at 8_
> 
> Back on topic, does anyone else find _The Unit_ to be a dorky, unrealistic, bs show?


I tivo'd the first 5 or so shows, and now I have seen 3. the first I liked a lot. it is going downhill.

what I like is the interaction between the wives (2 very hot wives), the combination of extremly close relationships between the guys and the small internal politics and tensions in the team.

I have trouble judging the realistic nature of the show - the IDF opperates in a totally different way. you do not have mature regular soldiers in grunt positions in the IDF. the only proffetional army consists of people in command and staff positions, not line gunmen. in the IDF you would never have a unit doing so many differnet jobs.

one thing that I always find funny about military shows and movies is how little briefing and debriefing there is. I know that we used to spend hours breifing and debreifing anything that involved serious potential for firing.

the thing is - a very real show about peacetime special forces would be very dull. hour after hour of training, briefings, courses, and recon missions - do you want to see a tv show about a 4 day recon mission with 4 guys who are trying to speak as little as possible, and are basically walking during the night and hiding during the day?

I will probrably stop watching it in an eposode or two.


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## Sweetness (Aug 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Trenditional_
> 
> President Palmer needs to go back to 24. Saw the first episode, wasn't overly impressed. The writting doesn't seem to be equal to the subject material of the show.


Unless they bring people back from the dead, I don't think he's coming back to 24.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by Louis M_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know, but I'm just not impressed with The Unit or the characters. I think he did a much better job on 24 as President Palmer. Plus, do we really know Palmer is dead?

_Deny Guilt, Demand Proof and Never Speak Without an Attorney!_​


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## DeltaWife (May 10, 2006)

You're joking, but I think you're on target: the "backlash" started right after Haney spoke out against the war. The book's been out four years, and as you said, it covers selection and portions of training more than anything. And those are subjects Beckwith covered in far greater detail 20 years earlier, when one could reasonably say those topics should have been close-hold.

Check out the review of IDF on ArmyHistory.org . written by a Col Cerear, I think. 

You know, Haney's never claimed to be a co-founder. Second paragraph of the book starts with the whole Beckwith story. The book jacket says "founding member" and that's justifiable. The original operators of Delta created the insitutional body of knowledge for strategy, tactics, methodolgy, etc. It wasn't handed down to them from previous generations. Every man serving in the unit when it was validated by the National Command Authority in Nov. of 79 (just as Iran embassy was taken) is a founding member. 

One of the officers on the original orders doesn't like to look at it that way. He even said Country Grimes "didn't count because Sergeants don't count." It takes nothing away from Col. Beckwith's America-saving life's work founding Delta Force to say that without his "magnificent men" -- there wouldn't have been a Delta Force.

Minor correction to DukeGrad: Blue Light and Delta were not the same units. Blue Light was a band-aid solution to counter-terrorism pre-dating Delta but lasted long enough to compete with Delta for recruiting purposes. Joe Stringham put the kibosh on recruiting from the Ranger Battalions (which were undermanned then) and that's why Haney and other Rangers couldn't attend selection early in 78. General MackMull handpicked a small list of men Delta could talk to -- but none of them made it through selection. 

Beckwith eventually had to have a come-to-Jesus meeting moderated by Shy Myer to get the clout to recruit from Rangers. And even then, Stringham told his candidates (like Haney) that if they failed selection, they wouldn't have jobs waiting for them in the Rangers. Beckwith had to fight tooth and nail for Delta and more than a few folks wanted him to fail. This country owes him a debt for putting our good above his own career. There are not many officers who would do that. The whole story's in the book. Nothing self-aggrandizing about the way it is told, either. 

As far as the television show goes, it's entertainment. That's all. Not a documentary. There's a fair amount of disinformation in it, too. The important thing to ask yourself -- aside from whether or not you enjoy it -- is whether or not you feel it presents the American military in a positive light. I think it does. 

Most of the time, we see soldiers as one dimensional killing machines. Or children so shocked by war that they can't function. So the whole show (like Over There) becomes about their surprise about the brutality of war. Or the show becomes a political statement about agendas. 

The Unit shows elite soldiers, mature men, doing their jobs and coming home to their families with their souls mostly intact. That's a good start for me.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by DeltaWife_
> 
> The Unit shows elite soldiers, mature men, doing their jobs and coming home to their families with their souls mostly intact. That's a good start for me.


that was my feeling. welcome aboard


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

Delta wife, you are right. Blue Light and Delta were not the same.
Actually it was, as you describe, a rushed force put together, for terrorism.
I was there then, and it was the years prior to 1979, that blue light was going on.
But it was a push, to get what Charlie wanted going.
Charlie, gets credit for Delta. This was his dream, no one else does.
He had vision, from Vietnam days, and ambition.
A wonderful commander as well.
Haney was not in the early picture at all.
Again, have not read the book.
Actually, have not watched the series either.
You all have a nice day,

De Oppresso Liber
Airborne!


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## DeltaWife (May 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DukeGrad_
> 
> Gentlemen
> 
> ...


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

You gotz to read the book, Duke Grad. You gotz to read it. 

By the way, welcome Delta Wife. This is a gathering place of some of the most sophistcated, erudite and intelligent people I've ever met...women. Glad to have you with us.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Delta Wife, Tin Tin,

I was at Womack, when the rushed RAID went off, Charlie and company needed a surgeon to go with them.So i know that period of time, very well.
It was sad for him, the way this went off. He was so excited to get tha ball going, yet, his big fear was would the force work.
He knew combined training was the way to go, but did what he could do.
I look at SFO Command, and am so impressed with the Delta of now.
Charlie is smiling, and he deserves this.
I served with the SAS years prior, and got the bug he got.
The SAS are the best, in my eyes.
Oops, I mean Delta.
Have a nice day my friends

De Oppresso Liber


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Duke Grad- On that sad day in April of 1980 I was in the XVIII Abn Corps EOC shooting rubber bands at ceiling tiles with the G2 and G3 desk jockeys. So I respect and admire you're CV. Haney's book will better inform (it did me) as to the beginnings of Delta.

I did something on the runway at Camp McCall with an airliner, a bunch of spooks from the Agency and super leg, General Bernie - take away the beret -Rogers. It may have been Blue Light. It may have been Delta. I don't know. Then again, I was bottom rung enlisted swine who was kept in the dark about everyting. But Haney brings a lot of respect to the enlisted ranks and I for one am grateful to the man. Delta Wife knows her "Sierra Hotel India Tango." No doubt about it.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Tin Tin, Delta Wife*

Tin Tin,

You are a riot, I forgot, you were at the G2 at Corps.

My story is not unique Tin Tin. I loved my work.
I loved what I did. I felt like I had a job. In each situation, t was real for me.
I was at Womack, which was a small place.
Not many there then.
When you take someone from either surgery department, or ortho.
The light goes on!
So to say.
I hate my freaking retirement, cant kill anybody.
LOL
Kidding my friend.

Tin Ti, how is your day?
He was 5th group?
In Vietnam?

Delta Wife, nice to have you my friend.

You all have a nice day


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

The old telephone Colonel is well and as mean and nasty as ever. You remember well, Jimmy. 5th Gp. 66-67. Central Highlands. Near Vinh Than. Operation Crazy Horse. The 1st Air Cav was most impressive. My dad had huge respect for those guys.

The Unit is getting better. Last three episodes have been much improved and I really enjoyed them. I can easily look past technical mistakes if the story is good and the last few stories have been very good. The production values are on the cheesy side (Jos Bank vs Anderson Shepard) but there's been some great humor and a couple of decent surprises. Check it out tomorrow night.


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## Trenditional (Feb 15, 2006)

Though I will agree the show has improved, I still can't get into it. The chemistry between all of the actors doesn't work well. The "team" doesn't seem as close as a team like that would be. Also, the acting seems "overacted." 

In my opinion, I don't think it lasts until next season. I could be wrong.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

DukeGrad said:


> I hate my freaking retirement, cant kill anybody.


jimmy - this is a quote I can use. this is the first thing that I think that I have read of yours that really speaks to me.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Globetrotter,

I am sorry, the statement, is best understood by a servicemember. I mean, the humor in my statement.
All of us military types, share this wonderful bond.
Sorry, you must not be prior, or current military?
You would see the humor.

Nice day my friend.


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## globetrotter (Dec 30, 2004)

DukeGrad said:


> Globetrotter,
> 
> I am sorry, the statement, is best understood by a servicemember. I mean, the humor in my statement.
> All of us military types, share this wonderful bond.
> ...


jimmy,

I understood the humor. I am also ex military


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## DeltaWife (May 10, 2006)

DukeGrad, Tin Tin,

I thank you for your acceptance, your kindness, and your willingness to entertain my point of view. I've spoken on military websites where I've been accused of being a man (because I'm "rational" and know a bit more military history than the average woman) and finding this site for pleasant, stimulating electronic conversation is a boon to me. 

I'm impressed with you both. And I suspect you are far from retired, DukeGrad, regardless of where your income originates. In fact, I wonder if you are a writer....you have a gift for it. An ability to resonate beyond the page. 

In the interest of full and honest disclosure, I must make this confession. I am Eric Haney's wife. I do not hide this fact normally. But nor do I usually introduce myself that way. I was a reporter very early in my career and have spent the bulk of my career as a writer and author so I take my professional credibility seriously. I research and annotate what I write and in the case of military history, I rarely make assumptions. 

Given the body blows Eric has taken since his interview taking a stand against the use of torture and against the administration's prosecution of the war (pre-Revolt of the Generals), it has become more important than ever that I be sure of my subject and the truth of my convictions.

In other words, I admit my bias towards Inside Delta Force (indeed, I helped edit it) but I'm enough of a cranky old professional to demand substance and integrity, none the less. Even from my husband. Especially from my husband. 

I read the posts on the thread concerning the rapes at Duke. I found them remarkably insightful, for the most part. How in the world did a website on clothing spawn such conversations?


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

*DeltaWife*,

You sound like a *Dana Priest* kinda woman.

I still think the _The Unit_ is a horrible show. I'll blame that on the writers and not the content.

_E-Ring_ is much, much better IMO.

M8

P.S.  You've got PM.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Globetrotter, 
I understand then, thank you.

Delta Wife, thanks for clearing that up. I understand then. I want to clarify about my reading. I read too much, go between John Donne and then military history. I like all reading.
I read I believe it was Plasters?, book on SOG.
The book did not depict the SF community, as I know it.
Drinking, barfing etc.
Not my kind of book. And a lot have come out it appears.
I have not read the book, but will do so.
About myself, was with the 10Group, at Devans in the early, mid 1970 time.
It was here, I met COL Marachuk. I was inspired by this man. We did the retirement of Americals colors there. Well, to make long story short, Marachuc impressed me. In his bearing. He was a very proud soldier, and looked it.
The parade made me proud as well.
It was there, I wound up going to Flintlock, and the combined NATO forces commands cross training. Here, worked with the SAS in England, and the French mountain school and so on.
Tin Tin as well did the French mountain school. He would also have an understanding of the training.
The SAS impressed me, very much. A different view on the profession of a soldier.
I learned a lot.
I wound up at Bragg, working with the medical support team for that raid.

I want to explain, I was not insulting about the book. My reading was soured by the book on SOG, although informative.
I enjoy a historical perspective, on my military history.
Such as the biography on Lord Nelson and so on.

Anyway, welcome.
Who likes the clothing?

Nice day my friends


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Climbing French Stuff*

Jimmy, I went through Canadian Jump School. Never went to French Climbing School (unless you count the time I dated a very tall French tennis player on my college women's tennis team).

Delta, there's a lot of prior and active military on this site. Both US and European. Something about tailoring my fatigues must have started a passion for tailored suits. Maybe that's what happened to the others as well.

I hate to say this but the season finale didn't do it for me. Having said that, I'll keep tuning in. Hope you and the CSM are holding up despite the crazies. Remember, when they draw the knives or they're putting a crown on your head it really means nothing. Only what you and the CSM thinks really counts.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

*Tin Tin*

Tin Tin,

A site I go to every now and then, the MACV SOG site. I found a heartbreaking 
memorial. Under the TAPS window, read the announcment. It is a sad, gut wrenching tale, about one of the best soldiers out there. After Vietnam, his life did not go well. In the end, living in CA, with his mother. He killed himself, some years back. Life was not too good for this gentleman, he served 5 tours with SOG.
Nothing was done for him, no memorial. A writer for a CA paper, a SOG type as well apparently saw to his burial.
I cried reading this Tin Tin. The only time I cry, is when my wife says I have a headache!
If you have time visit the site. Google MACV Sog.

Sorry to bring this old forum up gents.

Nice day my friends


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## tintin (Nov 19, 2004)

Jimmy,

Thanks for the site. I'll check it out. Happy Labor Day to you. 

tintin


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