# Tom James - let's hear it



## SenseofStyle (Jan 10, 2006)

I've seen mixed messages on the board regarding Tom James. I've never ordered anything from there but am in the market for some items. As such, I'd like to know everyone's opinions. My initial impression is that they seem a bit pricey for what they offer.


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## Rainmaker (Dec 30, 2005)

Several clothiers have told me they stopped carrying Individualized shirts because Tom James is their sales arm and its a conflict. If so, I'm not impressed with Individualized shirts, and I also agree it seems overpriced. They also make a MTM suit for a reasonable price, but I have heard they are very solicitious about their sales tactics, especially to those in big offices. That tends to turn me off.


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## kabert (Feb 6, 2004)

A few years ago I bought from a Tom James sales rep:

2 shirts
1 RTW blazer
1 custom blazer
2 pairs of dress slacks.

The experience was generally positive. The sales lady was very pleasant. The prices are very, very expensive. 

Regarding the shirts - -I would not buy them again, knowing what I now know about the better shirts out there on the market. They fit well of course, but the fabric/buttons aren't as nice for the price.

RTW blazer -- the "Innocenti Oro" line. I get lots of compliments on it, actually. The fabric is a nice tweed-like navy with faint lighter blue windowpane. The price was something like $450. Too much IMO for what I got.

Custom blazer -- this is beautiful and it fits me perfectly. The fabric I chose from a huge swatch book (she had a dozen or so swatch books, I recall). I picked out the lining and the various features of the coat. It was expensive though - - around $1,000. By the way, I probably wear that coat more than any other in my closet.

Slacks -- These were the fawnskin fabric. About $295/pair. Again, extremely expensive. Today, I think I'd rather buy Incotex or Oxxford for the same price (Oxxford would be on sale at that price). The fabric is so nice though, and the fit so perfect, that I actually went back about 2 years ago and bought two more pairs of the same slacks...

In sum, I think the more expensive TJ clothes can be high quality and you are essentially guaranteed a perfect fit. However, the prices are very high for everything -- both the "nothing special" mid-range shirts and blazers as well as the top of the line custom items.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

They are a bit pricey, but not really that different from retail prices at finer stores. My tailor has examined their suits and jackets and says they are pretty good by today's standards. Most of their lines are fully canvassed, but only the very top has substantial handwork. They are a perfectly legitimate option for executives who have neither the time nor interest to shop. They are an especially attractive option for those who really prefer a MTM suit due to physique peculiarities, which many of us do have. For example, I have a 39" waist but need a 44" jacket, which means a pretty small drop that is hard to find or even alter in RTW suit.
Many of the regular posters on this forum despise Tom James. I think the reasons are (i) high prices (but these posters are interested in sartorial matters and are willing to spend time to hunt for bargains -- many men are not) and (ii) the perceived arrogance of the TJ salesemen (these guys are trained pretty well and know more than almost all of their customers, but not more than most of the visitors to this forum who understandably do not want advice from someone who knows no more than they do).
My two cents.


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## SenseofStyle (Jan 10, 2006)

Thanks for the info. They try to justify the high cost by arguing that they come to your office. I get busy but rarely so busy that I couldn't go to a nice mens' shop if I wanted.


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

Ok for first timers looking to customize their wardrobes. The experience with Tom James is wholly dependent upon the knowledge and taste of the sales person. The first few times I met with them, the guy knew little or nothing about the finer points of clothing, and I thought he must have been a "wash out" in penny stock selling. Later, the sales lady was fun and creative and fine. I, therefore, did some business with her. But she is now off having babies, and more power to her.

I am back at Paul Stuart with a nice pinch of Len Logsdail style to make things interesting and I am very happy.


Joe


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## 80FJ40 (Sep 26, 2005)

I have three suits from 10 years ago. I went there to get a reasonably priced suit with features not generally avail then:
three button sack suit w/ natural shoulders
fully-lapped seams/welting on sleeves, back seam, trouser side seams, on seam pockets, hook vent. Lots of other little details. At the time, this would have been avail. from Press or Brooks, but much more expensively. Haven't been back but suits were fine.

80FJ40


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## Rainmaker (Dec 30, 2005)

Come to think of it, I was wrong when I said their MTM was reasonable. I was thinking of a friend who tried to refer me to a salesman that was offering a "friends and family" discount (presumably because he was just out of the training program and wanted to build his clientele). I passed.

At regular price, you could get a Burberry MTM suit for about 200-300 cheaper (however I believe Burberry is fused, don't know about TJ's MTM).


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## Son of Beau Brummell (Nov 5, 2004)

Tom James is directed to mid to high level executives who do not like to shop and need guidance in buying clothes. The Tom James experience is not for the clothing enthusiasts of this forum.

It offers MTM suits in different ranges of manufacture and fabrication from about $700 to $8,000. Therefore, the entry level executive can afford to buy from the same clothier that the CEO buys from. Its top of the line suit, starting at about $2,200, is a handmade suit.

I was surprised to learn that there are a good many CEO's of international companies who buy at least $100,000 a year.

Mark Seitelman
www.seitelman.com


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

> quote:They try to justify the high cost by arguing that they come to your office.


 *Invalid Assertion:* Here is a rephrase: We pay no rent. Hence, if national averages hold, our pricing should be 12% cheaper than brick & mortar establishments.

*https://www.CustomShirt1.com

Kabbaz-Kelly & Sons Fine Custom Clothiers
* Bespoke Shirts & Furnishings * Zimmerli Swiss Underwear **
* Alex Begg Cashmere * Pantherella Socks **​


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## SenseofStyle (Jan 10, 2006)

Good point Alexander. Of course when I kicked the Tom James guy out of my office and said, "I think I can do better pricewise somewhere else," he replied, "But we come right to your office."


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I loved buying Crockett & Jones shoes from them for $150/pair when they cleared those out. [8D]


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## Rainmaker (Dec 30, 2005)

Do their Ferragamo's ever go on sale?


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## Bonhamesque (Sep 5, 2005)

I don't know what Tom James is like in the US, but over here in the UK they are regarded by tailors as Satan's children.
This is mainly because they are not actually tailors, they are salesmen.
I met a guy who works for them once and he said that when he started the job he had no experience of tailoring whatsoever but they didn't care as he had plenty of telesales experience.
They sent him to America for a 3 week course on how to measure and that's it. That was the sum total of all the tailoring that he was taught.
When he then started the job he was required to start at 7am and sit in front of a computer with a headset on, making cold call after cold call to guys in the City and then at about 2pm he would go out with the fabric swatches and sell to them.
So it's basically a direct sales job and has very little to do with tailoring whatsoever.
The fact that they happen to be selling suits is incidental, they could be selling printers or advertising space or washing machines.
That's why their name has become a dirty word around Savile Row, because they have the audacity to call themselves visiting 'tailors'!


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm not aware of Tom James calling themselves visiting tailors in the US, but I will say that my TJ suits fit as well or better than anything I have purchased at Nieman, Saks, or Brooks. The quality is quite good, but they are very pricey, especially when compared to sales items at these stores -- but only modestly higher than full retail -- especially when comparing apples to apples -- i.e., canvassed to canvassed, MTM to MTM, etc....


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by Alexander Kabbaz_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, but you're putting the cart before the horse here. What matters in setting a price is not the cummulative costs involved in offering a service but rather the cummulative benefits of the service to the customer and what he is willing to pay for them. It's irrelevant if the "we come to your office" bit actually results in Tom James having lower costs. What's relevant is whether the Tom James rep coming to the customer's office is something that the customer likes well enought to pay for it.


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## jcusey (Apr 19, 2003)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> I loved buying Crockett & Jones shoes from them for $150/pair when they cleared those out. [8D]


Indeed. They're not EG, but for $150/pair, I'll take 'em. Or, at least, the Cornhill split-toe model.



> quote:_Originally posted by Rainmaker_
> 
> Do their Ferragamo's ever go on sale?


The reason that the C&J shoes went on such deep sale was that they were discontinuing carrying that line. I imagine that the same thing will happen if they ever discontinue Ferragamo, but I wouldn't count on it any time soon.


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by AlanC_
> 
> I loved buying Crockett & Jones shoes from them for $150/pair when they cleared those out. [8D]


I got a pair of their C&J loafers in a beautiful pebble grain for $20, including shipping, NIB

Train your eye! Then train your brain to trust your eye.


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## pdxjayhawk (Feb 20, 2006)

I was a Tom James customer for a long time. Early in my career, I was buying from the lower end of their quality pyramid, and moved up as I got older.

I fired them a couple of years ago. The funny thing is the only TJ stuff that I still wear is the stuff I bought first. 

Most of the later pieces have gone to Goodwill. 

Quality has dropped dramatically over the past couple of years.


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## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

*Pleasant suprises in Baltimore...*

I've posted on this at least 10 times before but here goes again:

All of the concerns floating around out there are valid from what I've seen and read. IF YOU LIVE IN THE WASHINGTON DC/BALTIMORE METRO AREA there is a fantastic way around ALL of these concerns that will net you very nice MTM at very reasonable prices.

They have a store at their factory in Westminster MD. The fellow that runs the store (Elio Casalena) has been with the company for many years. In fact he trains the sales force on measuring and his brother is CEO. Elio is very polite and won't be a hard sell. He has a huge selection of fabric. He offers very nice, quality, and well-fitting canvassed MTM suits for < $1000 from the factory's store. I've used him recently to great result and am planning to use him again shortly.

My only advice to a forum member going there is to be VERY specific in your requests. They can do what you want, just make sure you clearly convey your desires - as good as Elio is, he is quite used to guiding local, small-town business men that live near the store toward standard (read: bland) American style preferences. Most of his customers want (and receive) what amounts to a high quality and good-fitting suit that otherwise looks like it was designed by Jos. A Bank. I went to him demanding a slim suit, with side vents, high armholes, natural shoulders, and a wild lining and that's what I got.

Don't expect Oxxford quality here, but you will certainly get the nicest garment available anywhere for $1K, IMO.


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## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

I just got out-and-out spammed by a Tom James rep: irrelevant subject line, weird font and all caps proclaiming various suit and shirt package deals, no other text... The same message was sent twice in quick succession. It was like the prescription drug spam or the get rich quick spam. They must be really hurting.


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## Politely (May 8, 2008)

I used them many years ago for two suits, when I had no idea who they were (a friend recommended them to me). To make a long story short, I thought the suits came out pretty nice, but only after I took them to my tailor to have them altered. It was overall a bad experience.

BTW, I don't know if they still do this, but one of their sales tactics was to make a fairly bold request for your friends' contact information as referrals... at the ordering stage, before they delivered their product.


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## clawdaddy (Jun 23, 2009)

*Just a thought*

Elio and a few others are good at what they do, as far as caring about fabric and fit and style and HE alone has a nice gig at the factory but those who think that this company is truly concerned about the customer anymore are just flat wrong. They hire young people that have no idea about the clothing business and expect them to DIAL DIAL DIAL to get in front of enough people in a days time to get someone to say yes. Training is done for selling not good clothing skills, for the most part. Granted it takes a long time to gain skills that most of you have, but to turn these young people out to the buying public without enough knowledge to fill a thimble is disgraceful. They used to be a great company when Jim McEachern was running the show but not now. Just ask the few "Old Timers" that have stuck around hopeing their stock price would GO TO THE MOON. Sorry for those guys and the current leadership should be ashamed. As far as the factories they have under Individualized Apparel Group I guess they do about as good as most. If you buy, make sure you get a rep that is older than 20 and knows wool from cotton. As far as Elio's brother the CEO....


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

I own a pair of Tom James trousers, which I bought from them because they carry H&S fabrics and thus, when I wanted something special, they could actually beat the price of the regular place I use for most of my MTM clothing. (The trousers seem to be well-constructed.) That being said, the salesman didn't impress me with his overall knowledge about clothing. I showed him an MTM suit with a DB jacket that I had in my office closet and he remarked, "I'm surprised that they would sell you a double-breasted suit! They aren't in style." I was also put off by his attempt to hard-sell me on a navy blazer after he found out that I didn't own one.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Tom James does carry H and S fabrics and you can get a nice sport coat made up in one of their various models which I think they provide little information about on their web site. For instance, can anyone put these model names in order of their quality/price? Venturi, Innocenti, Royal Classic,Filo E Mano, Executive Collection, and Corporate Image. I think Venturi is the top and supposed to be on par with Oxxford.


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## Simon Myerson (Nov 8, 2007)

They are expensive and it does depend who your salesman is. They are also far too dependant on super 120s and above, which are useless for work really. 

That said I do think the fit is excellent and in the sale the price can be ok.


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## harvey_birdman (Mar 10, 2008)

Someone is selling Tom James suits on ebay with an incredibly small starting bid. Any thoughts? It's my size and they do look nice.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

harvey_birdman said:


> Someone is selling Tom James suits on ebay with an incredibly small starting bid. Any thoughts? It's my size and they do look nice.


who was it made for? and does that person have the same body shape as yours?
if so it would be a good deal.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

harvey_birdman said:


> Someone is selling Tom James suits on ebay with an incredibly small starting bid. Any thoughts? It's my size and they do look nice.


Alex had the most important point - depends on how similar in body you are to the person the suit was made for...

Beyond that, I only glanced at the ad and I can tell you I don't think the suit is being represented accurately...Tom James Executive Collection suits ARE NOT made in the same factory or by the same people that make Oxxford...second, Executive Collection suits are not $1800 garments...without looking further at the ad, my advice would be to skip it.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

TheWardrobeGirl said:


> Alex had the most important point - depends on how similar in body you are to the person the suit was made for...
> 
> Beyond that, I only glanced at the ad and I can tell you I don't think the suit is being represented accurately...Tom James Executive Collection suits ARE NOT made in the same factory or by the same people that make Oxxford...second, Executive Collection suits are not $1800 garments...without looking further at the ad, my advice would be to skip it.


This is a very sensible post. 
I would only add by offering a modest observation that might be seen as a bit contrarian in these forums. Tom James has several style lines and each has a top end that is very well made. For instance Ventura is the Classic line's top end label, and the suits and sport coats under this label are exceedingly well done -- perhaps not Oxxford quality, but not that far off. Securing a good deal on used Oxxford suits and jackets can be difficult, even on eBay, because most people who buy and sell Oxxford appreciate the value, which influences the price. Tom James is not held in similar regard (notwithstanding the shady practices rightly criticized by TheWardrobeGirl), and few people really appreciate the distinctions among the lines and labels. Accordingly, one can often find Tom James Ventura jackets or suits for next to nothing. IMO these garments can actually be one of the few steals still commonly available on eBay. Just my two cents.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Mike Petrik said:


> This is a very sensible post.
> I would only add by offering a modest observation that might be seen as a bit contrarian in these forums. Tom James has several style lines and each has a top end that is very well made. For instance Ventura is the Classic line's top end label, and the suits and sport coats under this label are exceedingly well done -- perhaps not Oxxford quality, but not that far off. Securing a good deal on used Oxxford suits and jackets can be difficult, even on eBay, because most people who buy and sell Oxxford appreciate the value, which influences the price. Tom James is not held in similar regard (notwithstanding the shady practices rightly criticized by TheWardrobeGirl), and few people really appreciate the distinctions among the lines and labels. Accordingly, one can often find Tom James Ventura jackets or suits for next to nothing. IMO these garments can actually be one of the few steals still commonly available on eBay. Just my two cents.


I don't think it was Tom James trying to pass that suit off as Oxxford - I believe it is the E-Bay seller...the lines that Tom James "compares" to Oxxford are Ventura, Sartoria and Holland & Sherry Bespoke...if it has any other label, it isn't even in the same ballpark.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

TheWardrobeGirl said:


> I don't think it was Tom James trying to pass that suit off as Oxxford - I believe it is the E-Bay seller...the lines that Tom James "compares" to Oxxford are Ventura, Sartoria and Holland & Sherry Bespoke...if it has any other label, it isn't even in the same ballpark.


Agreed. And did not mean to suggest otherwise. The labels referred to by TWG are truly high end and can often be found on eBay at steal prices since sellers just list by the Tom James brand. I suspect that the attempted deceptions re Oxxford have pretty minimal effect. The few buyers who are sophisticated enough to know and be impressed by the Oxxford name are sophisticated enough to know Tom James and the difference.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Mike Petrick has revealed a little about the mystery lines of TJ and the heirarchy within. I have searched their website but never find reference to any names like Innocenti or Royal Classic. Apparently you must make an appointment with one of the sales consultants to find out anything. In this day and age of information being available on the internet I find this policy puzzling at best, and infuriating at worst. Why bother with a company that seems so intent on putting the customer in the position of having to withstand the "hard sell" in order to find out about the product? Perhaps I'm just being too cynical.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

windsor said:


> Mike Petrick has revealed a little about the mystery lines of TJ and the heirarchy within. I have searched their website but never find reference to any names like Innocenti or Royal Classic. Apparently you must make an appointment with one of the sales consultants to find out anything. In this day and age of information being available on the internet I find this policy puzzling at best, and infuriating at worst. Why bother with a company that seems so intent on putting the customer in the position of having to withstand the "hard sell" in order to find out about the product? Perhaps I'm just being too cynical.


Here is an excellent exposition of Tom James, it lines, and its brands:

https://reviews.ebay.com/Tom-James-and-Oxxford-Clothes-suits_W0QQugidZ10000000010525249

And you can go to the Tom James web site, click on "suits," then "custom suit collections," and then drill down each of the lines. I honestly don't think they are intending to be mysterious. Much of the animus directed in these forums toward TJ is basically a bit unfair. In my experience TJ salesman run from superbly informed to simple peddlers, but that is not different than Brooks Brothers. Yes, they are pricey but you pay for convenience. Many members here enjoy the hunt and express disdain for the very idea of a man not valuing his clothing purchases enough to make time to do it properly. Most well-adjusted men, however, would rather be set on fire than go shopping, so we do value convenience.

And as TWG rightly noted, it is not TJ fault that eBay sellers deceptively try to exploit TJ's ownership relationship with Oxxford.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Mike...My beef with TJ has not been over the quality of their clothes or even their sales methods. It is about not having the information about their various lines. Your excellent link has provided that information and I thank you. Maybe I don't have the right "plug-ins" or updates on necessary programs to access the info on the TJ website. I will try to remedy that.


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## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Recent Tom James Experience*

I recently had a visit from a TJ sales rep who I had met while getting a shoe shine. He recalled my name and who I worked for and called asking for an appointment. I had seen the TJ garment bags around town but knew nothing about the company. He spent an hour basically introducing me to the company, asking questions and answering mine.

My impression was that while he didn't know MORE about clothing than me (he's been there 1.5 years) he knew about as much as anyone I've met at most stores, save the guys at J. Press. It would be nice to deal with one person, have him bring things to me, etc. and to be able to get custom (not true custom of course) for under $1,000, which I don't think you can do save for a travelling outfit like "My Tailor." The advantage here is that there's always someone who can stop by any time I need as opposed to waiting for a the next visit.

At least that's what I'm thinking.

Normally, I'd get my next suit at Brooks / Press, and expect to pay between $750 and $800 or thereabouts. I'm thinking that I could try having TJ make the same thing with my individual measurements though.

Any thoughts on whether the garment I'd get would be the same quality as Press / Brooks for that amount?


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