# Wearing a suit without a tie: what is your opinion



## astro21 (Mar 17, 2004)

Good evening gentlemen,

I have recently been keen to try to wear suits without a tie. This would be for "business casual" days at work and for evenings out (not business).
I am also thinking of using a pocket square (perhaps to boost up the ensemble, which lacks the tie).

Any opinion about this? Or any advice? While I realise that this is perhaps just a matter of personal taste, I would be happy to hear about what you all think of this.

Regards,

A.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

It would be better if sans tie to simply wear an odd jacket, though obviously to wear a good suit at all is to be automatically better dressed than most.


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## BizMan (May 1, 2005)

I personally would feel naked -- and that's not a pretty sight . Seeing others do it, to me, signifies (pick an adjective) slob, lazy, poseur.

I can accept a blazer or sport coat without the tie, but a suit? It's just odd to me.


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## Mr. Knightly (Sep 1, 2005)

I wouldn't do it for business casual. I think this is a great look but it shines in hipper settings. Bars, clubs, the right kind of parties. I find that I can pull it off even with people who are fairly underdressed, whereas a tie and sportcoat might look ridiculous in the same situation. Make sure the pants are low rise, flat front is also better.

Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

This was debated at great length just a week or two ago,
if you scroll back several pages you may find an interesting discussion.


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## jlmwrite (Dec 27, 2005)

The suit without a tie is another Hollyweird trend I think many of us wish would go away.

Yes, it is dressier than most people would wear for business casual, but it really only works after hours -- clubbing, etc. Wear it in good health in the evenings, but I'd avoid it at the office.


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## DougNZ (Aug 31, 2005)

Night clubbing aside, I don't like it. Tie with suit for me!


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## Son of Beau Brummell (Nov 5, 2004)

For me, a suit without a tie is like love without marriage!

I think that a dark, somber, business suit (especially a pinstripe) looks terrible without a tie. You might be able to get away tieless with a less formal suit which some might categorize as a sports suit.

Mark Seitelman
www.seitelman.com


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

I just don't hold with it.


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## Vettriano Man (Jun 30, 2005)

Likewise.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I personally like the look myself, I think it's fun, but as has allready been expressed, only in certain settings...I wouldnt go to work without a tie, I wouldnt go to a nice dinner without a tie...But going out, to a club, or a restaurant (although a tie really should be worn when you go to a really nice restaurant , it's a matter of self-respect if nothing else)...or out partying, or gambling or something...I say go for it...also, if I'm in a not too formal setting during the day (Vegas, Miami, or any other party town) I'll go sans tie when wearing a suit...To me, it's more a matter of knowing what styles you can and cannot get away with...

...but then agian, I could be totally wrong...

*****
"When you wear lapels like the swellest of swells, you can pass any mirror and...
*smile*
...You've either got or you haven't got style!!!"​


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## guyinadiner (May 2, 2005)

I think I've seen the look in newsreel footage of a few "perp walks," where the indicted white collar criminal has had his tie and belt taken away. It is what I think of whenever I see someone wwearing a suit without a tie.


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## boatshoes (Aug 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by astro21_
> 
> Good evening gentlemen,
> 
> ...


I see this look a lot. It doesn't look right.


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## Patrick M Thayer (Dec 24, 2004)

YUK!

Pat --
Living well is the best revenge.


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## rach2jlc (Jan 18, 2005)

Like most styles that deviate from any established norm (i.e. suit, shirt, tie, etc.)... it all depends on the fellow wearing it. I've seen guys with no tie and suit that looked like the "white collar criminals" guyinadiner mentioned. But, then again, I've also seen some guys that look outstanding in it and made me want to shed the tie I was wearing at the time. 

In general, though, I agree with Gabba and I don't really see any problem with it. I think that it works better with a little more "modern" or slimmer cut suit than with something trad (like BB or HS&M); I also think it works better after dark. But if you like the way you look in it, I say go for it. Luckily, as others have mentioned, the vast majority of men dress so poorly that it is doubtful that you'll look sloppy in comparison.

John


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

While your at it, send a drink over to the Blonde bombshell who's month in a certain men's magazine you can't recollect. She takes a sip, raises the glass and rewards you with the thinnest of smiles. You walk over, her chanel #5 embracing you, the pianno player tickling the ivories with THE HIGH AND The MIGHTY,every detail of her screaming perfection, from nails to designer dress. And then she smiles, revealing 4 missing front teeth and a voice Fran Dresher couldn't match after inhaling helium.


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## Boris (Aug 4, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by astro21_
> 
> Good evening gentlemen,
> 
> ...


Sounds O.K. as long as you don't wear socks either. Just kidding. I wouldn't do it. There are too many other "casual" outfit combinations with or without a sport jacket that accomplish a much better look.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I would wear a suit with a tie.


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## DEG (Jan 29, 2005)

I think it looks just awful. 

It is bad enough in the club scene but what I really hate to see is broadcast professionals, during their work day. dumbing down their attire that way. CNN Headline News has a couple of guys, a weather guy and some jock sportscaster, that always are in that sort of attire: a suit with a shirt and no tie or pants, shirt, tie and no jacket. Just dumbing it down. 

IMO the worst look of all is the suit without the tie. Adding a pocket square would just make it worse. The incongruity screams "I'm clueless!!" Adding the pocket square without the tie adds insult to injury.

Dan


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## spreadcollar (Dec 13, 2005)

i very much agree with this chap and the other who wrote that the look requires a modern cut, slimmer suit. in fact, the look, IMO, looks best with a modern stripe shirt or some other variety of less formal-looking dress shirt with, dare i say... are you ready for this? -- a _black_ suit. [i may have just pinned myself into quite a corner advocating all of this at once!]. at any rate, as you can see, the look is VERY far from what most on this board advocate wearing ANYWHERE, and, in all honesty, such tried-and-true wisdom should not be overlooked. and along these lines, i agree you can come up with a better "business casual" look.



> quote:_Originally posted by jlmwrite_
> 
> The suit without a tie is another Hollyweird trend I think many of us wish would go away.
> 
> Yes, it is dressier than most people would wear for business casual, but it really only works after hours -- clubbing, etc. Wear it in good health in the evenings, but I'd avoid it at the office.


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## Joe Frances (Sep 1, 2004)

I don't like it personally, and would not want it infered that I would follow the style inclinations of Brad Pitt or George Clooney. 

Joe


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## Daywalker (Aug 21, 2005)

I wouldn't do it for business casual at the office, but I would, and have, worn a suit without tie after dark on social occasions. Obviously, it doesn't work with a pistripe or plaid suit--a dark solid is best (even black). Forget about the pocket square.
I think it is a great look on men who look comfortable with it. Those who do not shouldn't try it. Simple.


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## a tailor (May 16, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by astro21_
> 
> Good evening gentlemen,
> 
> ...


if its a nice suit why spoil the look.

Alex Di Pietropaolo


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## GentleCheetah (Oct 17, 2005)

A suit sans tie evokes an image of a playboy. You might get away with it if you are an important person at your workplace and are often considered as flamboyant. In other words, your underlings, equals, and superiors should not find your playboy image unusual.

On the other hand, if you are often considered conservative by your co-workers, this party style may let you exude a new image of a free alpha chimp that might prepare you for your next promotion.

It all depends on what you are and what you want to become.

The Gentle Cheetah


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

I do this often but never at work. I save the look for clubbing and occasionally to go out to dinner. For business casual, I would probably not. The look to me gives the impression of being nonchalant, an impression you would probably not want to project in most professional settings. 

I also agree that the look works better with a close fitting suit with very soft shoulders and lines. A more structured suit looks a bit odd with it. In a club, a tie would really look out of place. A suit sans tie is the most dressy look one can pull off without looking a bit overdressed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

I like it in the right setting....

Occasionally I'll wear a navy suit with an almost white chalk pinstripe, crisp, FC white shirt & tan shoes and belt.

Looks good IMO

MrR

"Give me the luxuries in life and I'll gladly go without the necessities"


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## eguanlao (Feb 15, 2005)

I don't like the look at all. If you want to lose the tie, then wear a sport jacket.

The American Jackass tends to don the suit without a tie. Don't be a jackass.


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## xcubbies (Jul 31, 2005)

The reason god invented sport coats and blazers was to prevent us from having to wear suits w/o ties. A tweed or blazer look fine, even great, without a tie.

Of course if you want to look like a rockstar that is something entirely different, and something the good lord had not anticipated.


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## mannaman (Aug 26, 2005)

I do not like that style. Maybe, after work, you want to take off your tie and get a drink with your buddies. Well, thats a different thing. In Germany, the sports jacket with jeans look came back a couple of years ago and it's still a style you can wear for clubbing. But in the office, I try to maintain a certain level of professionalism and a tie belongs in your style.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by eguanlao_
> If you want to lose the tie, then wear a sport jacket.


I would generally follow this advice.

However just occasionally, I like the idea of a softly cut suit to wear at night to a club or similar with an open collared shirt. I don't actually a suitably soft suit that fits that bill and instead use a very naturally cut velvet blazer in such situations. But it's an idea that keeps knocking about in the back of my mind.


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

I'll wear seersucker and linen suits with linen shirts sans tie and socks.


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## DEG (Jan 29, 2005)

Originally posted by Tomasso:
"I'll wear seersucker and linen suits with linen shirts sans tie and socks."


IMO that is the only time one might get away with it. As xcubbies pointed out above, the reason God made blazers and sport jackets is so we wouldn't have to wear suits sans ties.



Dan


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## DressPRMex (Jun 20, 2005)

Very DeNiro in "Heat", although he was playing a gutless, yet super smart and ultra cool thief [8D]. I don't personally wear a suit without tie. Maybe also just for clubbing, which is an activity that, much to the Wife's disappointment, I very rarely feel like doing [xx(].

In any case, they say that if you stain your tie, it is better to take it off than to wear it dirty.


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## bwep (Apr 17, 2005)

For what it is worth, and that is likely not much, but A suit can be worn sans tie depending on the occasion, type of suit or type of shirt. I have a black crepe suit that I cannot bear to wear a tie with. It is a casual suit for a night at the clubs etc... Likewise, as has been stated, a linen suit can definitely look good without a tie, or socks for that matter. I think one can dress down a suit with certain fabrics of shirts or certain colors. Silk shirts can be worn under a suit without tie. I recently had a deep purple shirt, similar to one that FNB posted on the Paris thread, made. It looks great under a gray suit. Just my opinion. I do not like to be as close-minded as some appear to be....

"...always aspire to live simply and elegantly." - Madeleine Finn


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Most suits look better with a tie.


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## gng8 (Aug 5, 2005)

Don't do it. A suit without a tie looks like you forgot to get dressed.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by forsbergacct2000_
> 
> Most suits look better with a tie.


I agree with you.


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## kabert (Feb 6, 2004)

I do it from time to time. It's less formal obviously than wearing a suit with a tie but more formal than wearing gray flannels with a blazer. It also permits more creativity with shirts and their colors/stripes. Five or more years ago, I'd agree that people would look at one and think he'd forgotten his tie; but these day, when so many businesses are "business casual," I think it's a far better look than many, many alternatives. I guess I'd agree though that the look is better on suits where the jacket is slim and/or has a fairly high button stance so there's not the large expanse of shirt.


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## boatshoes (Aug 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by eguanlao_
> 
> The American Jackass tends to don the suit without a tie. Don't be a jackass.


Yes, that's what this look reminds me of... couldn't put my finger on it at first.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by kabert_
> 
> Five or more years ago, I'd agree that people would look at one and think he'd forgotten his tie; but these day, when so many businesses are "business casual," I think it's a far better look than many, many alternatives.


I don't mean personal offense, as you aren't the only person who's made this type of argument but I would say that rationalizing it in this manner will ultimately doom proper dress, if it isn't already. Eventually, with these kind of excuses, people wear polo shirts to work, and then after a while someone says "I'd agree that 5 years ago, people might look at the t-shirt and say "where's the collar" but these days, when so many business are tanktop optional, I think it's a far better look than many alternatives". Eventually, we will discard all clothes and climb back into the trees with this sort of logic. I don't look forward to it.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
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## Intrepid (Feb 20, 2005)

Perp walk, spot on!

Would seem to belong in the same category as the long silk tie with a dinner jacket.

Best regards, Bill


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## Mr. Checks (Dec 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
> 
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Well, I don't think the question was: "what will be the impact on 'proper dress' if I wear a suit without a tie?"

Style/fashion/dress evolves; I think Kabert is noting the evolution with a bit of evidence (must be a lawyer) of that evolution.

As for the original question, I like the look on others, but not on myself. I think you need to be a bit thinner than I am to carry it off.


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Mr. Checks_
> 
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Of course, but why encourage further collapse of decent standards if we don't have to?


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## Reptilicus (Dec 14, 2004)

Someone recently put up a post about hats. There was some conversation as to whether women preferred a look that was more proper or more what they were used to seeing. Most people agreed that a man in a hat looked too old or stuffy and they needed a much more mertosexual approach. Suits are the same way. When you are meeting a young lady for the first time, a suit sans jacket with pink or lavander shirt will often bridge the gap between stuffy and meterosexual. (A look I happen to loathe. But to thyne own self be true.) To the office? Depends on where and with whom you work mut I would generally say no. On a date? Why not. Someone on this forum once answered my own proxy about this saying, "A suit without a tie says you have either been somewhere more important or are going to somewhere more important." Not half bad. But please, keep at least one foot on tradition by matching this with some nice Alden plain toe bluchers.


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## Badrabbit (Nov 18, 2004)

> quote:_Originally posted by Coolidge24_
> 
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Everyone is ignoring the fact that this is not a new phenomenon. It has been done for 60 or 70 years. Hardly a flash in the pan trend of the young destined to abolish proper dress. As other noted in the other thread about the subject, many of the sartorial geniuses of the past wore this look going back to the 40s. I'm sure you all could teach Fred Astaire and Cary Grant (both of whom I have seen pictures of dressed in this manner) a bit about proper dress but to disregard this as the style of criminals (perp walk) or Brad Pitt or George Clooney is to ignore the long standing history of this look.

We often talk about the fact that certain situations call for certain dress and a sportcoat or a tie looks more out of place at a club than a suit sans tie does. Perhaps, most of you who are so vehemently against this never go to clubs or are just perhaps too stuffy to dress properly when you do go to them but to disregard it as a manner of dress which has no place is ridiculous.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women thrive on novelty and are easy meat for the commerce of fashion. Men prefer old pipes and torn jackets. 
Anthony Burgess


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Reptilicus_
> 
> Someone recently put up a post about hats. There was some conversation as to whether women preferred a look that was more proper or more what they were used to seeing. Most people agreed that a man in a hat looked too old or stuffy and they needed a much more mertosexual approach. Suits are the same way. When you are meeting a young lady for the first time, a suit sans jacket with pink or lavander shirt will often bridge the gap between stuffy and meterosexual. (A look I happen to loathe. But to thyne own self be true.) To the office? Depends on where and with whom you work mut I would generally say no. On a date? Why not. Someone on this forum once answered my own proxy about this saying, "A suit without a tie says you have either been somewhere more important or are going to somewhere more important." Not half bad. But please, keep at least one foot on tradition by matching this with some nice Alden plain toe bluchers.


I must date the wrong girls, they all like my ties. Metrosexuals are cowards who should be run out of town on a rail.


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Well, I firmly believe wearing a suit san tie is the best of business causal. Flusser recommends this also. Flusser states, "Society's smart set has been sporting suits witout ties for many years as we observe both Cary Grant and Jack Bouvier. Ralph Lauren is picture in his classic gray glen plaid and black turtleneck. As Flusser states, it has become a "logical and permanent fashion."

As Flusser states, "it affords a man one more option in his range of corporate causal options" Forgo your cheesy images you may be thinking of and take a look at page266-270. V neck sweater with white shirt or collar, turtleneck with fine gauge merino wool. I plan on donning a classic charcoal suit tommrow with white tv fold brown shoes and brown belt and a turtleneck. I receive many compliments and look as an authority figure moreso than the more causal standard sportcoat and classic gray trouser. For a speech there is nothing like a finely tailored suit, with appropriate dress accessories.

[/URL]

Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Closed Collar for a more polish formal look

Open collar can look great and more tradional

Ralph Lauren is pictured constantly in his black turtleneck and grey glenplaid

Pinstripes however have to be very muted otherwise I don't care for it.

If it's great for Flusser, Grant and Ralph, it is good enough for me.



Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style


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## Film_Noir_Buff (Mar 3, 2005)

I once read something (cant remember if it was by a psychologist or a scientist or what) about the psyche of men who are unable to remove their necktie or get dressed without putting one on. Though I cannot remember the details of the essay, it was not flattering and involved an inability to relax. I must admit, I was one of these men for a long time. It actually took the equivalet of a sartorial jedi master 2 years to get me to shed the tie for some social purposes.

I feel more relaxed now...

____________________
Nobody expects the sartorial inquisition


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## Coolidge24 (Mar 21, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Film_Noir_Buff_
> 
> I once read something (cant remember if it was by a psychologist or a scientist or what) about the psyche of men who are unable to remove their necktie or get dressed without putting one on. Though I cannot remember the details of the essay, it was not flattering and involved an inability to relax. I must admit, I was one of these men for a long time. It actually took the equivalet of a sartorial jedi master 2 years to get me to shed the tie for some social purposes.
> 
> ...


I think that's a good point, but I think there's a genuine distinction between being able to go through life not wearing a tie (key) and being able to go through life knowing that a suit is not like a sportcoat or a shirt on its own and requires a tie, or ought to.


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## Urbane (Jan 15, 2004)

This topic raises the issue of what should be worn under the tieless shirt. A crew neck tee-shirt is not the answer. I do not like singlets, and the v-neck tee-shirt is an awkward compromise, in my opinion at least. Is undershirt-less the only acceptable alternative? What are some of the views on this issue?


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Urbane_
> 
> This topic raises the issue of what should be worn under the tieless shirt. A crew neck tee-shirt is not the answer. I do not like singlets, and the v-neck tee-shirt is an awkward compromise, in my opinion at least. Is undershirt-less the only acceptable alternative? What are some of the views on this issue?


Yes, undershirts should stay under except for the classic white crew with V neck sweater

Collar dress shirts are fine open.with perhaps classic crew in white underneath

Mock and Turtlenecks are dashing

All buttoned classic merino wool polo long sleeve shirts are suitable

That gives you V-neck, Mock, Turtleneck, Classic collared, and merino long sleeve polo. All quite suitable worn by Ralph Lauren, Flusser, and Cary Grant. Smart, natty and permanent style. The highest form of compliment you can pay your host or company without going to a tie.

In addition to your sportcoats and grey flannels you have another versatile option.

And as always, this never replaces the tie for its formal business uses.

Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

If the suit is very casual in cut, and the shirt has the sort of collar that looks all right without a tie - tennis or convertible collar,then why not? But with a suit and shirt designed to be worn with a tie, no, unless you have a lot of talent and find a combination that somehow works. Serge Gainsbourg looked good in jeans, a chalk-stripe suit jacket,and an open-necked army shirt, but he had talent. I wouldn't attempt it.


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## Stuttjukken (Jan 14, 2006)

I donÂ´t wear a suit without a tie. If I donÂ´t wear the tie, I donÂ´t wear the suit. Do I wear as "business casual" without a tie, I want to wear a blazer (or a club-jacket), shirt (white, pale blue, grey, olive, creem, brown, khaki), and polywool trousers. Sometimes I can drop the jacket, and use a v-necked sweater outside the shirt, in the most informal situations.

In my job as a busdriver I wear an uniform all the time. I wear a pilot jacket (navy), shirt (white), tie (navy) and polywool trousers (navy). IÂ´ve been a busdriver in 6-7 years, and IÂ´ve weared my tie all the time, 250-300 days every year. I feel me naked without the tie. On festival days I got an uniformsuit-jacket, always with a tie, of course.

No suit without a tie.

Short and stout/heavyweight busdriver in Bergen, Norway. My favorite clothes are polywool trousers.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I think you will have a unique perspective to offer us. 

It's nice to see you here!


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## AZTEC (May 11, 2005)

Stuttjukken welcome to askandy!

do you often wear a suit and tie on your day off?

AZTEC

**************************************


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I think a jacket, and maybe even a suit can look good with no tie if it is with a 3 button merino sweater, maybe with the buttons all buttoned..that is how I like it..I am not sure I like a shirt and jacket with no tie..the cary grant look with the buttons all done up may indeed be a way to do this if you want to..I didn't like the pics of George and Pierce with a short with 2 buttons undone with a jacket...not if you are wearing an uncontructed jacket, like linen, that is an entirely different deal..think back to Miami Vice, I never liked the jacet and T shirt look, but in some cases it can be ok, not my look though.

guit


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

I don't wear suits without a tie. Also, the only shirt I would wear without a tie is BD (and a sportcoat/blazer).


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## Stuttjukken (Jan 14, 2006)

Thank You, forsbergacct2000 and AZTEC. This is the first forum I registered me to, outside Norway.

I donÂ´t wear my suit often, only for festivals and celebrations. I wear my busdriver-uniform everytime IÂ´m at work, so I wear a tie all days IÂ´m at work.

Short and stout/heavyweight busdriver in Bergen, Norway. My favorite clothes are polywool trousers.


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## Sr.Santos (Jan 23, 2005)

Business and casual wear should never be mixed together. If you do want to wear something dressy yet casual, a good choice would be a white starched shirt, cashmere jacket, and ironed jeans. 

Best Regards,
Santos


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## floutist (Jan 9, 2006)

I despise ties, but I do wear them, in order to say 'I'm dressed up.' If you've the dash and innate elegance to pull off a suit, minus a tie . . . I think that's fine. I do think though, that if the majority of the crowd will be wearing ties, it's really 'out there,' not to wear one. Unless I were known as someone who routinely breaks with tradition ... I'd wear a tie.


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## tom22 (Feb 19, 2004)

I am sympathetic. i wear a tie everyday at work. In the evening somedays i just can't abide wearing a tie.


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## JRY (Mar 22, 2005)

Nope, can't do it. A sport jacket or blazer - yes, suit - no.

Regards,
JRY

"There are many ways in which to break a plate, but only one way to put it back together." - Howard Roberts


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## JLibourel (Jun 13, 2004)

My $.02: I'll wear a sport coat or blazer without a tie and do so with great frequency. I have never worn a suit without a tie and do not at this time have any intention of doing so. However, the tieless suit is not something I would categorically condemn. Some men have the looks and the panache to pull off that look pretty well. I believe JFK, certainly a stylistic ikon, was one of them. I definitely prefer it to the "collar button undone, tie knot pulled down" slob look one all too frequently sees. However, my perspective may be skewed by the fact that I positively lo-o-o-ve neckties in all but the hottest weather. I would wear them almost all the time if it weren't such an eccentric practice in my part of the world.


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## Daywalker (Aug 21, 2005)

JLibourel is correct on this point: you must have the looks and panache to pull it off. I'd call it attitude. Anybody that thinks George Clooney doesn't overall look great in that middle photo is in denial. 

Just as words mean things, clothes mean things, too. A suit without tie is a fine look for the right occasions and has a solid place in my arsenal of silent communication.

astro21, I'd forget about the square. I believe it defeats the overall effect.


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## Soph (Sep 25, 2005)

Ralph Lauren from Flusser's DTMan, suit sans tie.



Constantly Improving my Sartorial Style


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## CHC (Jul 16, 2005)

Honestly, I think Ralph Lauren looks sort of smug and sleazy in that picture there, and the lack of tie isn't helping either. The black shirt puts too much emphasis on the suit and his head, and to me, he sort of looks like he's standing behnid a hanger that has a suit on it, rather than actually wearing the suit.


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## insuranceguy (Jan 15, 2006)

My feeling is that this sort of thing varied depending upon where you are. For instance, in So. California a suit without a tie is probably just fine, whereas in New York City it would not.

B.R. Swicker
New York, NY


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## clothesboy (Sep 19, 2004)

George Clooney, Pierce Brosnen, Cary Grant even Ralph Lauren, what wouldn't those guys look good wearing.

Am I the only one who noticed FNB's sartorial jedi master comment? Judging from his picks he learned well so I want to know who schooled him.

quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Michael


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## dwyer (Mar 11, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by CHC_
> 
> Honestly, I think Ralph Lauren looks sort of smug and sleazy in that picture there, and the lack of tie isn't helping either. The black shirt puts too much emphasis on the suit and his head, and to me, he sort of looks like he's standing behnid a hanger that has a suit on it, rather than actually wearing the suit.


I think he was wearing a turtle neck, not a shirt.


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## KenCPollock (Dec 20, 2003)

If we allow this heresy, what is next? A suit with flip-flops?
I have said this before: A tie is the most important part of a true gentleman's wardrobe. A man totally naked except for a tie (provided that it is long enough) is better dressed than a man in a Savile Row bespoke suit without a tie.


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## nodbek (Mar 19, 2006)

You could wear a suit without a tie. It would seem as if you were on trial in court.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

Guilty! I have started wearing suits without a tie sometimes. In my regional culture, it seems that the only time men were a suit is when they are compelled to by wives or bosses. In those cases, they are also compelled to wear a tie. They ditch the whole thing in favor of leisure clothes with various team and school logos as soon as they can.

So when I wear a suit and tie, I feel like I might be mistaken for just another guy who "has to wear a suit." But when I wear a suit and no tie, I feel as if it is a statement of _volition_; a demonstration that when given free will, I still chose to dress well. I'm happy to wear the tie, just sometimes I don't. I can wear anything I want to work, including jeans and t-shirt. But I always wear a suit at least.


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## jamespetts (Mar 19, 2006)

Why the obsession with informal? No good will ever come of it. There is a great deal to be said for formality.

James E. Petts


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## rip (Jul 13, 2005)

> quote:_Originally posted by Son of Beau Brummell_
> 
> For me, a suit without a tie is like love without marriage!


Even worse... it's like marriage without love!

Train your eye! Then train your brain to trust your eye.


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## southampton man (Mar 15, 2006)

in Summer with a pale suit- I think it's OK

never wear brown after six


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## Chuck Franke (Aug 8, 2003)

This is extremely dangerous. In a recent study it was conclusively shown that not wearing a tie with your suit can in some cases cause one's head to either explode or simply fall off. While rare, you simply should not take such a risk.

Please wear a tie, it is only your safety I am thinking about.

www.carlofranco.com
Handmade Seven Fold Ties


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## bdam1 (Mar 14, 2006)

Long time Lurker, recent poster
From the tone of most of these posts, I'm sure I'll regret this. 

A couple of points:
Since the onslaught of business casual, I have observed the "norm" of my office dress (I'm in the finance industry) which has gone into the purgutory of kaiki's, polo's or button-downs....totally safe and uninspired.
I viewed the suits and shirts I have acquired over the years and just refused to wait for the wedding, theater date or other "formal" event to enjoy them.
I really love this look and wear it 3+ times a week.....dark suit, H&K or Lewin shirt. 
I think with a great shirt, the suit can fill that middle ground between kaiki hell, resort wear (the norm here in Newport Beach) and the full suit/tie thing. Granted, here in Southern California, the expectation of a tie is alot less than say, New York.

The other posters are correct. Where you are has alot to do with it. In Hawaii, you only wear a jacket and tie to court or a funeral....and most funerals specify Aloha attire!

I don't miss the tie...I really don't. For me, it was always the most uncomfortable part of the suit thing. I guess I agree with some of the previous posts that I have set my mind free of the whole "suit must have tie or die" metality.

Since we all acknowledge through this forum that "style" has equals parts attitude, individuality, quality and history, if you feel comfortable with the look....go for it!


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## Will (Jun 15, 2004)

Dress for yourself but pay attention to those around you. In California, when doing business with customers and partners whose idea of business clothing is khakis and a polo, I will wear an odd jacket and flannels with a round neck knit top. If the setting is slightly more formal, I'll wear a suit with a knit top when the most formal man other than myself is wearing an odd jacket sans necktie. 

If I'm seeing only colleagues that day, I'm always suited and necktied. 



------------------------
Fortuna elegantes adiuvit.


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## Crazytree (Feb 6, 2006)

I was going to post a pic of DeNiro in Heat... I liked his open-collar look.

But it turns out he puts on a tie when he goes to work.

_-clueless 1st year associate attorney, los angeles._


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## smlaz (May 13, 2005)

Hi all,
Pocket square with a tieless suit/shirt? Hhhmmm. Why not? I wear a pocket square with my jackets/blazer and no tie, so why not a suitjacket with a pocket square. Those with parochial predispositions will hold to the tie at all events, those of us who are confident in our own style will wear what we're comfortable and/or look good in: tie, no tie, hangman's noose, what have you. And, by the by, I'm noticing RL's turtleneck pic and his trousers have what appears to be an extended Daks waistband to his hip. Or am I needing another boost to my already-too-strong eyeglass presription?
Cheers,
Steve

Niceness is an overrated quality. Being nice is how a man pays his way into the party if he hasn't the guts to be tough or the class to be brilliant. - James Abbott McNeil Whistler


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## nicksull (Sep 1, 2005)

I have to say I think a suit without a tie can work devastatingly but it all too frequently doesnt. And its all down to how well the suit is cut and fits. As we all know a very well cut suit will look a milion bucks - weve seen it before. I dont think the tie is automatially what clinches it. 

So Id go with 1) an immaculate cut (high armhole, natural shoulder, waist supression) Kilgour and 2) a well constructed dress shirt with a reasonably sized collar a la Borelli (not one of those terrible pointy ones with no stiffness). 3) And a pocket square. Instant Luca Cordero di Montezzemolo cred. And the last vital ingredient? the sort of self confidence to look a hole through anyone who might even think you had underdressed.

nicks


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## Nick (Jan 16, 2005)

Oh, I don't know. I find this particular style very, very attractive. 










------------------------------------------------
"They're such beautiful shirts," she sobbed, her voice muffled in the thick folds. "It makes me sad because I've never seen such â€" such beautiful shirts before."


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## Cantabrigian (Aug 29, 2005)

I recently saw someone in a linen suit and white poplin suit - the (very intentional) casual breeziness of the outfit would have been ruined with a tie.

I don't ever see myself going for the George Clooney look because I don't think I could do it without drawing an 'Oh, he forgot his tie' reaction - even from myself.


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## Liberty Ship (Jan 26, 2006)

> quote:_Originally posted by smlaz_
> 
> Hi all,
> Pocket square with a tieless suit/shirt? Hhhmmm. Why not? I wear a pocket square with my jackets/blazer and no tie, so why not a suitjacket with a pocket square. Those with parochial predispositions will hold to the tie at all events, those of us who are confident in our own style will wear what we're comfortable and/or look good in: tie, no tie, hangman's noose, what have you. And, by the by, I'm noticing RL's turtleneck pic and his trousers have what appears to be an extended Daks waistband to his hip. Or am I needing another boost to my already-too-strong eyeglass presription?
> ...


I don't know what an extended Daks waistband is, but I though it kind of looked like he might be wearing a skirt. Thanks for the Whistler quote -- all these years, I thought that quote came from Jonathan Hemlock in "The Eiger Sanction."


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