# Before you visit Mr Freddy Vandecasteele in Studio City



## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

If you are an experienced custom shirt buyer then you probably know exactly what you want.

I sent Mr Vandecasteele an e-mail after my visit to his shop on Saturday asking for my shirt to be 28" long with 8 buttons spaced 3.5" down the placket.

Mr Vandecasteele replied with the following e-mail:

"Dear Mr ---,You scare me, You like to micro manage 
everything,One never measure a shirt or coat in the 
front,Always measure in the back,You do not trust me,I try to 
follow instructions but I would rather not work that way,I do 
not want to take your time and rather do not make your shirt.
Sincerely, Freddy"

It was a 100 mile round trip for me to visit Mr Vandecasteele 
in Studio City on Saturday so if you do have specific 
measurements in mind for your shirt then you may want to e-
mail your measurements to Mr Vandecasteele first in order to make sure that he is willing to make shirts for your measurements.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Sorry, but I think that is hilarious!

I have to say, it kind of annoys me to see posts like this...I get the sense that your purpose was to embarrass the tailor or turn business away from him...while we all try our best to accommodate, people need to remember something - this is our business..this is our livelihood...we aren't in it to break even or worse yet, end up in the hole...we CAN'T AFFORD to take clients that we KNOW we will lose money on...I applaud him for turning you away before you spent money on something you MIGHT not be happy with and he wasted his time and money making it. He did you BOTH a favor!

Based on some of your other posts you are clearly not an "expert" on anything related to shirt making and On THIS thread alone you show that you have absolutely ZERO knowledge or reason behind that request~

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=83848

Just to prove my point a bit further, here is another thread that shows your vast shirt knowledge...

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=83638

Oh, and another...

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=82384

I know we aren't viewed in the same category as doctors and lawyers, but we are professionals that take a great deal of time learning our trade and a great deal of pride in our business - if you don't look good, we don't look good...we WANT you to be happy, we WANT you to look good, most importantly we WANT you to feel good about your purchase, but you CAN'T tell us how to do our job - you wouldn't tell your doctor how to perform surgery, you wouldn't tell your lawyer how to defend you - PLEASE don't tell us how to make clothes! We love to discuss preferences, we love to discuss fit, we will take the time to educate you but if you think you know more than us - please, do us both a favor and do it yourself.


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## Politely (May 8, 2008)

Zing!


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

WardrobeGirl - This is a great forum where experts can share their knowledge.

There are many extremely valuable members of this forum who have posted insightful information for which I am truly grateful.

Please don't take this personally, but I don't remember a single post from you that I considered valuable.

My first post in this thread was purely factual and represents the scope of what Mr. Vandecasteele is comfortable offering.

Clearly you are not an empathetic person but since I wasted a Saturday morning along with time and travel expenses I am not receptive to the insults in your post. I was not happy with the tone of the e-mail that I received from the vendor and I prefer that you do not reply to any more of my posts in this forum going forward.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Ah, that's tough then, isn't it? First the OP gets jerked around by the vendor and then he get beat up here just to rub it it...


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

Next time he'll know better.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

What is OP?


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> What is OP?


The "Original Poster." In this case, that is you.


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## Bird's One View (Dec 31, 2007)

This thread really screams for the "popcorn eating" smilie.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't see why it is offensive to provide specific measurements to a custom tailor.

In software development we always prefer clear specifications from the customer so the customer always gets what he wants.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Maybe Mr. Vandecasteele will log on and stick up for himself. The OP's got money and he wants a shirt. Looks like profit down the drain.


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## T-Bag (Jun 16, 2008)

slav2fashn said:


> I don't see why it is offensive to provide specific measurements to a custom tailor.
> 
> In software development we always prefer clear specifications from the customer so the customer always gets what he wants.


Do you like it when your customer tells you how to write your code?


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

If an organization wants a specific interface then I give it to them.


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## the etruscan (Mar 9, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> If an organization wants a specific interface then I give it to them.


And if a customer doesn't believe in unbounded recursion, and wants your code to be done entirely without while statements, for example, do you assume that your customer is going to be easy to work with?


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't care about what kind of methods a tailor uses as long as the end shirt is close to spec


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## arnaud (Apr 10, 2007)

*Dissent*

I'm in the process of having my first shirt made w/ Freddy.

Thus far he has been extremely accommodating with my requests, rigorous in his attention to detail, on time w/ his delivery and very easy to work with, in fact, a delight all around.

I couldn't be happier.

Perhaps the root of the problem may lie in the sort of sensibility indicated by your Member Name: Slav2Fashion. From my limited experience, Freddy is a slave to good craftsmanship and style, not fashion.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

On custom work the clearer and more precise the customer can be about his requirements, the better the chance is for a smooth transaction which will probably be followed by more orders.

And if the vendor thinks the customer is unreasonable in his requests, the best thing he can do is to terminate the transaction as soon as possible.

I appreciate the OP informing of us of his experience and I hope that Mr. Vandecasteele does make a reply.

I suggest that we don't enough of what took place to make a well thought out judgment about who was right or wrong. And, perhaps there is no right or wrong here - sometimes in a business situation, just like any other human relationship, personalities just don't mesh.

Cheers, Jim.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

slav2fashn is a username from my 20's.

I like the user name but I prefer standard custom shirts.
I think that you will find in my posts on this forum that I like my clothes to be as standard as possible.

I never said that Mr Vandecasteele is not detail oriented I simply provided one instance of details that he clearly felt strongly against working with.


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## Falconboy (May 10, 2008)

I love it. 

I may have to go down the street to visit Mr. Vandecasteele and have him make me a shirt. Maybe two. 

No micromanagement - check

Anything else I should know?


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## arnaud (Apr 10, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> I never said that Mr Vandecasteele is not detail oriented I simply provided one instance of details that he clearly felt strongly against working with.


Very well... But there was obviously more to this tale than "one instance of details" that caused the problem. Maybe something in your tone, or perhaps he'd had a bad day. I do not know and I now suspect you don't either.

In any event, I think the better part of valor in these situations is not to trash a good man's reputation b/c of one shirt but instead to handle it on this forum via PMs when you see his name. I've myself have had several big run-ins w/ vendors whose names I regularly see on this site but rather than try to destroy another's livelihood I try to be helpful to those all around.

You're pissed. Okay. Now move on.

For my part, I got Freddy's contact info from "Shirtmaven," whose judgement and good sense is renowned on this forum.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

May I request Mr Vandecasteele's contact information?


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## Falconboy (May 10, 2008)

THis was posted in a thread from last October. I've been putting off finding time. Now I must make time.

Freddy Vandecasteele
13263 Ventura Blvd. Suite #4
Studio City, CA 91604
(818) 789-2813
[email protected]


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Falconboy - if you are not too specific about what you want then you will probably not get an unpleasant e-mail.


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## arnaud (Apr 10, 2007)

Kav said:


> May I request Mr Vandecasteele's contact information?


Happily, and w/ my compliments...

*Freddy Vandecasteele
13263 Ventura Blvd. #4
Studio City, CA 91604

Tel: 818.789-2813*

You can also PM him on this board. I think his user name is very similar to his full name.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Arnaud - I am not trashing anyone's reputation.

As I said in my original post, if you do have specific measurements in mind then you should first send these to FV in an e-mail to see if he is willing to work with your measurements.

I think that this approach is probably best for everyone and certainly would have been best for me in this situation.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

OH WOW! Peter Pan directions from my place just up the coast from Studio City! Thankyou! I had this saddle made; 1880 reproduction, hand stitched. I rode the Canyon with it's maker. I think we scribbled the parameters of a ( then) $2000 rig on a oily brown lunch sack in @ 5 minutes. A mutual acquaintance ordered another saddle and sent a 30 page notebook of specifications with xeroxed photographs and a wire template of his horse's withers and shoulders. He called the saddler constantly until completion. Nobody was quite sure what to call this amalgem of hysterical saddles and personal whimsy, least of all the young horse that grew into a different animal it no longer fitted.


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## mipcar (Dec 12, 2007)

How things are phrased are most important so there can be no misunderstandings.
My thoughts for what they are worth are that it is perfectly okay for a buyer to have specifics in what he or she wants as it is equally acceptable for the provider of the service to state that they are unwilling/unable to supply a product to those specifics.
It's all about balance, too picky a buyer will never get what he wants and too inflexible a supplier may be doing himself out of some work.

That's a general observation about supply and demand, I'm not making any comment about the specifics of what happened between the o/p and the supplier as I was not a 'fly on the wall' and neither is anyone else.

Mychael


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## HISMES PARIS (Mar 26, 2008)

Although we've all established that we don't know the full extent of the situation, I'm going to take what seems to be an unpopular point of view and support the OP. I don't know what his tone or manner is like, but in general, one has every right to ask for specific button spacing on a bespoke shirt. While a tailor may have standard measurements from which he works when a client does not make a specific request, anyone worth his thimbles should be able to accommodate a simple request like 3.5" button-hole spacing. 

Furthermore, although it is the right of any private business to refuse service to anyone for any reason, there must be a system in place that disincents businesses from doing this frequently; that system is what we have seen here. Dissatisfied customers complain about the lack of service, which prevents (or should prevent) others from using the business, which incents the business to provide good customer service, including not refusing service to reasonable customers.

That being said, I do not know what the OP is like, but making a request about button-hole spacing is certainly not out of the league of reasonability.


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

Personal chemistry and mutual respect are vital features of a positive relationship between a bespoke artisan and his or her client. In this case, the OP and Freddy did not hit it off. That is sad but it should not reflect badly on either of our fellow members. 

Such a situation probably happens more often than one thinks. There is one leading Jermyn Street shirtmaker that I was planning to use. However, the staff in the store were arrogant and difficult to deal with. I chose to not use the firm and it cost them a lucrative order.

The OP should look for another shirtmaker that he likes and can work with. Good luck to him in his search. Perhaps members can suggest an alternative.


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## David Bresch (Apr 11, 2004)

Every artisan gets to pick exactly what he does want or does not want to do, that is the free market. I was rejected yesterday by FV (though I will try again) over the phone, apparently he has very specific preferences for work.

I would like to correct one impression: patients try to tell doctors what to do all the time. Nobody is immune.


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## arnaud (Apr 10, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> ...I am not trashing anyone's reputation.


This is ludicrous. I think the overall tone and tenor of your remarks shows that that is exactly what you were doing. Blaring a vendor's name in the title of the thread and then quoting his email to you - private correspondence - for all the world to see has the overall effect of trashing the man's reputation.

Perhaps I've not been clear: you may have good and justifiable reasons to be upset. Fine. Disputes like this are inevitable in a bespoke trade where vendors and customers alike are so passionate about what they do and want. But your response has been... a bit over the top.

And for whatever it's worth, I do earnestly hope you can find a shirtmaker you're happy with.

Best, A.


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## Shirtmaven (Jan 2, 2004)

I will venture to guess that Freddy did not get a good feeling about the potential customer relationship and decided that it would not be a good experience for either one of you.

After many years in business, I have learned how to judge a customer's temperment. I have asked customers to leave after taking measurements and deciding that things would not go well. YOu have no idea what it is like to deal with a customer that is either OCD. or walks into the first fitting with way too much conflicting knowlege gleaned from the forums
a customer just quoted a statment by Mr. kabbaz that said he has shirts that have lasted over 200 washings. I am not doubting that fact. Just dont expect that to be the norm. a white shirt will look disgusting if worn and washed 200 times.

You have asked Freddy to do something that is quite standard. 3.25-3.5" spacing is the norm. his button hole machine may even have a spacer for that distance.

I just measured out a shirt. with a 28" length from the join at the collar.
You would have to start your first button very high. otherwise the last button is going to make wearing the shirt quite uncormfortable. You need a little ease in the hips so you can sit down. otherwise there will be pulling at the hip.

Dr. Bresch, why would you have Freddy make you shirts when there are several decent shirtmakers in your home town. If you walked into my shop, I would turn you away as well. I have read to many of your posts. I am not sure what it is you are looking for.

There are other customers who have been to numerous shirtmakers. One came to me recently. He was wearing a shirt from a NYC based shirtmaker. It was awful! one of the worst made and fitting garments I have ever seen. The customer told me about his problems with this shirtmaker. I commiserated with the customer. but 30 minutes later i asked him to leave. why? he was driving me crazy. Life is too short. I just called the tailor who makes him his suits. the tailor told me that he has thown him out in the past as well. But in the end he turned into a good customer once the customer knew his place. I am not saying the customer is not allowed to request certain details. Just that there is a way to do it without insulting the tailor/shirtmaker. and yes, mistakes happen. and if everyone is level headed, there is a way to rectify mistakes with out too much difficulty.

there will be people on both forums that will readily tell you about less then perfect experiences in my shop. But fortunately the opposite is also true.

slav2fashn there are other shirtmakers in the LA area. try someone different. 
Carl


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

I don't think my response was over the top. And I don't think you would have either if the e-mail response that I included in my first post read like this:

Dear Sir - Thank you for taking the time to visit my store on Saturday. Unfortunately, I do not work to your level of specification as I find it to be too restrictive. I hope that you find another bespoke tailor that is a better fit for your needs.

Regards,
...

I am just informing buyers who are looking for specific measurements to e-mail FV first with the measurements if the buyer will have to travel a significant distance. This pre-screening should reduce both time and headache for both the buyer and vendor.


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

*Relax, it could be worse!*



slav2fashn said:


> . . .
> 
> It was a 100 mile round trip for me to visit Mr Vandecasteele
> in Studio City on Saturday


At least it wasn't a trip to Naples!


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

slav2fashn said:


> I am just informing buyers who are looking for specific measurements to e-mail FV first with the measurements if the buyer will have to travel a significant distance. This pre-screening should reduce both time and headache for both the buyer and vendor.


I think that FV did both you and himself a favor by calling-off the sale.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

son of brummell said:


> At least it wasn't a trip to Naples!


Touche!!

:--)


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Those first two posts were amazing. Rare to see a second post pick it up and go beyond.

Slav; you obviously came off as a problem client. That guy didn;t write anything particularly nasty, and he has been around the block a few times, so he sees in you something that will merely drag him down and irritate him. And why should he bother with you if you are irritating to deal with?

If you really want that guy's stuff, get that guy's stuff, not your stuff done by that guy. You might be happier with what he makes for you, assuming he is a true artiste with loads of experience.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

100 miles in the city of Lost Angels and surrounding Dante's suburb circles is nothing. Well, with today's petrol prices one should plan the itinery to include a new dining experience, local used bookstore, antique jewelry shop (art deco cufflinks for the new shirt) tattoo parlour and/or tattoo removal clinic. Life is, after all a Moveable Feast. And like Auntie Mame said 'Most suckers are starving!" Or, in Los Angeles just pulling ahead to the next window for your barf burger.


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

I applaud any person with sufficient confidence and success in their business to not need to deal with people they view as troublesome clients. Good for them.

Look, there are various different ways of approaching a commission (whether shirt, suit or non-clothes item) - some clients are obsessive micromanagers, others take a hands-off approach, letting the maker do all the styling. Most people probably fall somewhere in between. 

Equally there are different approaches by makers - some have reached a place in their profession and skill where they have very specific aesthetic ideas about how something should be done. Others need a tremendous amount of specific guidance to generate a product you will be happy with. Again, most fall somewhere in between.

You cannot expect to always "hit it off" with a maker because it is entirely possible the two of you will have a "culture clash" based on where you both fall on the spectrum. You have the right to walk away; and so do they. 

As for the "tone" of the note, I would have phrased it more diplomatically of course, but based on the email I suspect English is not Mr Vandecasteele's first language so I'm going to cut him a bit of slack on this and it is not actually rude (more brutally frank). Anyway, at least you know where you stand, and can now go find a tailor who is willing to listen to minute instruction re: style details.


OK, serious post is over. Now back to the popcorn eating...


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## kngrimm (Nov 18, 2007)

I've worked with Freddy and he is extremely friendly and a pleasure to be around. I've asked for certain things that could be considered different and his response?

"Sure, no problem."

When I ask questions about how things are done or made.. his response? 

He'll start cutting up a collar to explain construction or show me another piece of clothing to point out some differences. 

The hard part about this post it that we don't really know why Freddy choose not to work with you. Just because his email points out one reason does not mean that's completely it. Having worked with Freddy, it's difficult for me to believe the problem lies with him&#8230;

Freddy makes a beautiful shirt.. period. It's a shame you will not own one.


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## HolyBull (May 10, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> I don't see why it is offensive to provide specific measurements to a custom tailor.
> 
> In software development we always prefer clear specifications from the customer so the customer always gets what he wants.


You may be better off going with a maker like Jantzen where you can specify every detail.

BTW, Aren't you worried about being overdressed for software development? I was on a project at Microsoft a while back and noticed most of their employees wore promotional t-shirts and jeans to work.


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## Infrasonic (May 18, 2007)

Shirtmaven said:


> I will venture to guess that Freddy did not get a good feeling about the potential customer relationship and decided that it would not be a good experience for either one of you.
> 
> After many years in business, I have learned how to judge a customer's temperment. I have asked customers to leave after taking measurements and deciding that things would not go well. YOu have no idea what it is like to deal with a customer that is either OCD. or walks into the first fitting with way too much conflicting knowlege gleaned from the forums
> a customer just quoted a statment by Mr. kabbaz that said he has shirts that have lasted over 200 washings. I am not doubting that fact. Just dont expect that to be the norm. a white shirt will look disgusting if worn and washed 200 times.
> ...


Good post.

I think the more I have hung out on the forums, the more I realise there is so much more to learn before having any meaningfull knowledge.

I remember seeing a documentary about Eric Clapton rehearsing for a big tour. He wanted to add a backing vocal from one of the musicians. (Not really a big deal)
So the first thing he does? Asks his FOH sound engineer if that would be ok, not cause any problems for him etc. Clapton knew it wasn't an issue, it was just a respect thing to ask first.


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## The Sartorial Executive (Apr 19, 2008)

T-Bag said:


> Do you like it when your customer tells you how to write your code?


That is not a sensible analogy. That would be like the OP telling the shirtmaker how to cut the material. Of course the customer should be able to tell the shirtmaker what he wants for his money. Equally the shirtmaker is within his rights to refuse if he feels he is not confident enough to produce what the customer wants (or feels the customer will be awkward and never be happy)....


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I spent a good part of this week looking for a local source of OTR white, french cuff dress shirts. I mean, we are talking if your lucky 49% cotton made in Bangladesh take it home and use a stitch cutter to remove the pocket as the buttons fall off and the salespesonae hasn't a clue where they are, or possibly what for $45. My other option is to go for the 4 for 3 introductory price deal a catalog promises with each delivery. I'm saving my money. I should have such problems with bespoke.


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## leica (May 13, 2008)

A business owner has the right to refuse or deny service to any customer. There are always ocassions when something in the relationship between a business and a prospective client doesn't mesh. In this case Freddy was wise to advise the customer that it would be best if he went elsewhere. He believes in his product's intergity and quality more than providing the customer a product that wouldn't satisfy him.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

I'm a client of Freddy's and will go to him again

Let him make the first shirt and then ask for adjustments (don't micromanage him from the outset since this will constrain his creative juices

His first shirt needed adjustments (which he told me it would)

We went back and fort a little on this issue until his tweaking ensured the look and fit were to both of our satisfactions

The following 8 shirts were much to my liking

It was well worth leaving the safe confines of the Westside in order to go into that gutter many refer to as "THE VALLEY"


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Oh My - your last sentence will probably be found insulting, and understandable so, by some members.

I live half way between the Westside and the Valley, so if there is a fight, I won't have a dog in it.

Cheers, Jim.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Is Freddy east, or west of Ventura BLVD.? Those of us who recall a SFV of orange groves know there used to be a difference.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

That valley is a large and multi-cultured place. Kind of odd to lump it into some monolithic land mass....

It's like you never go outside your turf, like some peasant in a mud hut.


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## M6Classic (Feb 15, 2008)

leica said:


> A business owner has the right to refuse or deny service to any customer.
> <snip>


Not if service is denied based on race, religion, sex, or some constitutionally protected class.

Buzz


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Oh Gawd, I hope Freddy likes the irish.


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## arnaud (Apr 10, 2007)

Ay329 said:


> Let him make the first shirt and then ask for adjustments (don't micromanage him from the outset since this will constrain his creative juices
> 
> His first shirt needed adjustments (which he told me it would)
> 
> ...


Excellent advice. Give shirtmakers, tie makers, suit makers, whatever some room to maneuver on the first go round then seek specific - or peculiar - adjustments as you go along.

First bespoke garment I ordered was a disaster precisely b/c I didn't follow, or know, this very sage advice.

Satisfaction requires mutual trust and a relationship that only develops over time. For me, an expensive lesson but a necessary one.


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## T-Bag (Jun 16, 2008)

The Sartorial Executive said:


> That is not a sensible analogy. That would be like the OP telling the shirtmaker how to cut the material. Of course the customer should be able to tell the shirtmaker what he wants for his money. Equally the shirtmaker is within his rights to refuse if he feels he is not confident enough to produce what the customer wants (or feels the customer will be awkward and never be happy)....


While I appreciate your response, I disagree.

To me, and I may be way off base, the "specs" would be color, collar choice, cuff choice, size, material, etc. Telling someone where to put buttons or how to stitch a seam is telling them HOW to do their job (or how to write code in my analogy). If a first shirt is ordered and there is an issue with spacing, I see no issue in asking for an adjustment - but you've got to give an "artist" a certain amount of creative room. You have to give someone with that reputation and expertise the benefit of the doubt. I admit it is a fine line, but the analogy is quite sensible.

My gut tells me there is a LOT more to this story than what we have here.


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## JerseyJohn (Oct 26, 2007)

There has to be a match between what the customer wants and what the vendor is willing to supply for the price he charges. If the vendor perceives, rightly or wrongly, that the customer wants control over too many parameters, I see nothing wrong with the vendor assuming that this is going to be a customer he isn't going to make a profit on at his price point and telling him so up front. 

Not to speak for AK, but I imagine the OP could ask AK for anything he wants and get it (and pay $800+ a shirt for it). It's a case of pay the piper, call the tune - don't pay the piper and take the tune you get.


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## David Bresch (Apr 11, 2004)

Shirtmaven, that is not very nice. I have been a good client to every artisan I have used. I pay promptly and never complain. For example, when I got my shirts from Mrs Harris I accepted really poorly fitting shirts. After that I did everything I could to stay with her, including requesting better cottons and nicer buttons. I have not used a local shirtmaker since then until now that I have finally tried Barton. And I am happy with the first shirt Barton made for me, and I have ordered 8 more.

I am not sure where your confusion lies. People recommend Alumo and Riva and local shirtmakers (including Barton and Ray) will not make shirts from these materials, so I have shopped around to get more choice.

I would be very interested to know what post suggested to you that I would be a less than excellent customer. What do I have to do, present my tailors' references?


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Kav said:


> Is Freddy east, or west of Ventura BLVD.? Those of us who recall a SFV of orange groves know there used to be a difference.


I recall at one time if you bought a house in the Valley, you got an acre of land and a horse. Well, maybe the horse was an option or maybe not - heck, I don't know nuthin' 'bout horses except they are ugly and both ends and uncomfortable in middle.

I wonder where our oranges come from now that the San Fernando and San Gabriel Valleys and Orange county are full of houses instead of orange trees. If you can remember far back, at one time one of the power house L.A. radio stations used to broadcast at 7:55 PM in the Winter the Fruit Frost Warning to tell the orange tree growers whether they should light their smudge pots.

I realize this is off topic, but it seems to me that we have pretty much beat to death the fact that one potential customer for a custom shirt maker had his order canceled in a manner that did not meet with his approval.

Cheers, Jim.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Property WEST of Ventura BLVD has always held to the old adage ' I live on the better side of Ventura BLVD.' There is still an anacronistic law on the books giving sheepherders BLVD right away bringing the flocks down from the foothill grazing near Calabasas, where a hike past ever enroaching gated communities will bring you to the spring source of the L.A. river. The adobe museum next to Sagebrush Cantina was residence to a rather brusque Basque who died and left his common law indian wife to bring the very first palimony suit to L.A. courts. A bit further down I can show you the location of THE LOST VILLAGE OF ENCINO I helped relocate 8 years before an archaeologist with good P.R. announced he had discovered it ( after reading our report squirreled away at UCLA.) Good Press is everything in SOCAL don't you know. It's now merely one of many lost villages, the BLVD almost a main artery feeding the long gone ethnic enclaves we have always claimed. I miss the hungarian Resturant where Bela Lugosi held me singing hungarish lullabies. I always meant to go back and order two servings of goulash in his memory. But one thing has never changed on Ventura, parking. Since the days of horsedrawn frieght wagons it has been a royal PITA parking on the valley side. So I was curious which side Freddy is on. coming down from Ventura County, origon of the BLVDs name, being formerly hte frieght corridor for stage and produce to the L.A. market. Men wore fresh white shirts nicely boiled and starched for that trip.I have no idea what the button placement was however.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

slav2fashn said:


> My first post in this thread was purely factual and represents the scope of what Mr. Vandecasteele is comfortable offering.
> 
> Clearly you are not an empathetic person but since I wasted a Saturday morning along with time and travel expenses I am not receptive to the insults in your post. I was not happy with the tone of the e-mail that I received from the vendor and I prefer that you do not reply to any more of my posts in this forum going forward.


First - you and I both know your post did not include the ENTIRE interaction between you and Mr. Vandecasteele...

Second - There is nothing about your post to be "empathetic" about

Third - Unfortunately when you inappropriately take a private issue public, you face the uncomfortable comments from people like me 

Finally, just as a note...Prior to responding to this post initially, I actually took time and read through many of your past posts...I would encourage anyone who even thinking about siding with this "OP" to do the same...



M6Classic said:


> Not if service is denied based on race, religion, sex, or some constitutionally protected class.
> 
> Buzz


While I do in fact have a PERFECT comment for this post, I do not want to get myself banned so I will refrain...anyone scratching their head wondering what it might be, feel free to PM me


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

WardrobeGirl - I asked you to not reply to any more of my posts (as you quoted in your last response) and I asked you to please stop harassing me after the last set of insults that you sent to me by private message.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

slav2fashn said:


> WardrobeGirl - I asked you to not reply to any more of my posts (as you quoted in your last response) and I asked you to please stop harassing me after the last set of insults that you sent to me by private message.


And as I said in my post - when you post on a message board, YOU don't have a choice as to who responds - TOO BAD!

I actually thought it was pretty nice of me to PM you that other "observation" as opposed to posting it on the board ...don't worry, it won't happen again, public forum is way more fun!


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## Asterix (Jun 7, 2005)

TheWardrobeGirl said:


> Sorry, but I think that is hilarious!
> 
> I have to say, it kind of annoys me to see posts like this...I get the sense that your purpose was to embarrass the tailor or turn business away from him...while we all try our best to accommodate, people need to remember something - this is our business..this is our livelihood...we aren't in it to break even or worse yet, end up in the hole...we CAN'T AFFORD to take clients that we KNOW we will lose money on...I applaud him for turning you away before you spent money on something you MIGHT not be happy with and he wasted his time and money making it. He did you BOTH a favor!
> 
> ...


 My! my!! my!!! :icon_smile_big:

IMO I don't think it was necessary to post the fact that the tailor opted out of sewing a shirt for you because he did not want to do what you asked for. I actually think he did you a favor and I think he has every right to choose who he provides services to.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

WardrobeGirl - Will you please let us know which business you represent?


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## Benjamin E. (Mar 2, 2007)

TheWardrobeGirl said:


> Sorry, but I think that is hilarious!
> 
> I have to say, it kind of annoys me to see posts like this...I get the sense that your purpose was to embarrass the tailor or turn business away from him...while we all try our best to accommodate, people need to remember something - this is our business..this is our livelihood...we aren't in it to break even or worse yet, end up in the hole...we CAN'T AFFORD to take clients that we KNOW we will lose money on...I applaud him for turning you away before you spent money on something you MIGHT not be happy with and he wasted his time and money making it. He did you BOTH a favor!
> 
> ...


This sounds like outright character attack.
The first paragraph does not make sense. Adding two extra buttons and asking for the placket to be a certain length will not bankrupt you, so it doesn't sound like a loss of profit would result. However, you would not be getting any money by refusing to make the shirt.
In any case, the OP is saying if you have an unusual request, call ahead and ask if it's worth coming down. For him, it was a long trip.
In response to the last paragraph, IT'S A CUSTOMER'S JOB TO TELL AN MTM COMPANY HOW TO MAKE HIS CLOTHES! THAT'S THE POINT!

However, you do make a point: if a store or tailor cannot make someone look good, they should think twice. My father told me about an Austin Reed salesman who only carried up to a certain size to discourage larger men from buying their slim cut suits. However, if it's just a strange request, it shouldn't cause so much fuss.


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## Freddy Vandecasteele (Oct 28, 2005)

*Thank You*

I like to thank everybody for their imput.

Slav had this post up 30 seconds after the second email communication.
He was going to show me!
This should have been a private matter.
Here is the rest of the emails.

"Freddy - AAAC members spoke highly of you.
I can order this shirt and the 3x3 and prepay for a third shirt if this will help make this more worth your while.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
A***** "

"Dear Mr C*****,You paying me is not my concern,I trust you completely,and ordering 3 shirts is not a good idea,if one has no confidence that I can make one shirt to your micro specifications.
We both have a track record on these forums yours scares me.
By all means all the best, let me know how you make out.
Regards Freddy "

I agree I have no writing style,but it is easy to understand what I am saying
No form but subtence,
At 16 years old I was making clothes,never had to much formal education.
If one does not take advantage of my 45+years of experiance,you are missing something
Get a print out of all the specifications, from the computer you carry with you and give to the salesman who will fill out your form.

And I think the extra front button could be a good thing 
Giving me the front mesurement of the shirt is what ticked me of
That proofs one does not know what he is talking about.

Everything as been sayed
Mabe if Slav would have giving me is "Forum name" I could have saved him a trip.
He plans to make 2 trips a year to NY anyway East coast be ready.

Freddy Vandecasteele


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## jamgood (Feb 8, 2006)

What ho, Freds!


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## leica (May 13, 2008)

slav2fashn said:


> WardrobeGirl - Will you please let us know which business you represent?


Hmmm! What does Wardrobe Girl's business matter in regards to your comments about Freddy Vandecasteele's refusal to sell you his product.

She is a respected poster and her comments are in reference to claims you made against a shirtmaker's decision not to provide you with his services.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Benjamin E. said:


> This sounds like outright character attack.
> The first paragraph does not make sense. Adding two extra buttons and asking for the placket to be a certain length will not bankrupt you, so it doesn't sound like a loss of profit would result. However, you would not be getting any money by refusing to make the shirt.
> In any case, the OP is saying if you have an unusual request, call ahead and ask if it's worth coming down. For him, it was a long trip.
> In response to the last paragraph, IT'S A CUSTOMER'S JOB TO TELL AN MTM COMPANY HOW TO MAKE HIS CLOTHES! THAT'S THE POINT!
> ...


I think you missed the point...It is not about the buttons - it is about trying to micromanage the tailor when you have no basis for your request AND the tailor KNOWS something won't work...as Carl mentioned - the fit won't be comfortable when he attempts to sit...the second reason this is a problem is because when the customer is not happy with the garment (after the tailor has catered to their very specific requests) 9 times out of 10, the tailor is the one that has to pay to fix and/or remake the garment and/or the customer decides he doesn't want it...again, tailor absorbs the cost..so yes, in some situations it is cheaper to refuse the business ...that $250 shirt only has so much of a profit margin you know - that price is simply an example...(cost of aggravation not included in this formula)...also, it is NOT the customer's job to tell the MTM company how to MAKE the clothes - it is the customer's job to convey what their expectations are in a finished garment...finally, I don't think Freddy is a "MTM" tailor, I could be wrong, but I think he is Bespoke...


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

leica said:


> Hmmm! What does Wardrobe Girl's business matter in regards to your comments about Freddy Vandecasteele's refusal to sell you his product.
> 
> She is a respected poster and her comments are in reference to claims you made against a shirtmaker's decision not to provide you with his services.
> 
> It is interesting that the last two threads started by you consists of complaints against businesses that have an excellent reputation of customer service.


Thank you! That is a much appreciated post 

I suspect Slv. want to "tattle" on me


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

Freddy Vandecasteele said:


> Slav had this post up 30 seconds after the second email communication.
> 
> This should have been a private matter.
> 
> ... East coast be ready.


Slav, you just fell face first on the floor in your own tears, and Freddy mopped the floor with you. Seriously. Step back and think yourself over for a while.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

Wardrobe Girl...you go girl:aportnoy:


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## HISMES PARIS (Mar 26, 2008)

Wardrobe Girl, you seem to be taking far too much satisfaction in the treatment you're giving the OP. Perhaps you have some pent-up aggression toward nit-picky clients that you'd like to let out somewhere else, where the rest of us don't have to suffer through it?


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Preu Pummel said:


> Slav, you just fell face first on the floor in your own tears, and Freddy mopped the floor with you. Seriously. Step back and think yourself over for a while.


Preu - If you reread my first post and all my post in this thread you should see that I have said nothing derrogatory or hostile. I simply presented the facts of a transaction, which Mr Vandecasteele confirmed in his own post.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

leica said:


> Hmmm! What does Wardrobe Girl's business matter in regards to your comments about Freddy Vandecasteele's refusal to sell you his product.
> 
> She is a respected poster and her comments are in reference to claims you made against a shirtmaker's decision not to provide you with his services.


As far as I can tell WardrobeGirl appears to be in the custom clothing business.

If WardrobeGirl feels that her comments are fair and her tone is appropriate then she should feel comfortable letting us know which business she represents.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

slav2fashn said:


> As far as I can tell WardrobeGirl appears to be in the custom clothing business.
> 
> If WardrobeGirl feels that her comments are fair and her tone is appropriate then she should feel comfortable letting us know which business she represents.


Why? Do you wish to be a client?


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## arnaud (Apr 10, 2007)

Okay, now that Mr. Vandecasteele has finally had his say - and Mr. Slave 2 Fashion has been having his for close on 24 hours now - I believe the results are manifest to any objective observer...

Slave 2 Fashion: find another damn shirtmaker willing to put up with your preening ego, your arrogance, petulance, vindictiveness and general pain-in-the-arseness (is that word? Screw it, it is now!)... You 'never meant to trash the man's reputation'. Please. Either you're being so disingenuous it's laughable or you're naivete is so acute you need therapy (and if I even get a whiff of whining or bellyaching from you about an 'ad hominem' attack we'll all know it was the least of the opprobrium _you_ precipitated).

For all love, Sir! Have you no shame?

Kudos to Jim in Sunny So Cal and Kav's charming posts (#56 and 57 respectively) for the pastoral/historical (sheep? orange groves? who's have thought?) view of life in the valley (God, I hope they're not having a joke at my expense) and to Wardrobe Girl (#67) for a spirited defense and rebuttal.

"Good day to you sir." "No, good day to _you_, sir."

All due affection,

Arnaud


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

slav2fashn said:


> If you are an experienced custom shirt buyer then you probably know exactly what you want........


I take it that you are an experienced custom shirt buyer?
Who have you used successfully in the past and about how many shirts have you had made "custom" to date?


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## T-Bag (Jun 16, 2008)

HISMES PARIS said:


> Wardrobe Girl, you seem to be taking far too much satisfaction in the treatment you're giving the OP. Perhaps you have some pent-up aggression toward nit-picky clients that you'd like to let out somewhere else, where the rest of us don't have to suffer through it?


I rather enjoy it. If it isn't your cup of tea, don't *click* on this thread. :teacha:

Capisce?


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

slav2fashn: Please stop embarrassing yourself. Also, consider apologizing.


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## leica (May 13, 2008)

slav2fashn said:


> As far as I can tell WardrobeGirl appears to be in the custom clothing business.
> 
> If WardrobeGirl feels that her comments are fair and her tone is appropriate then she should feel comfortable letting us know which business she represents.


Let's address the tone of posts, shall we. Your original post about Freddy is nothing less than a poorly disguised attack on the gentleman and his business. The tone of your original post is a poorly disguised warning that the gentleman is difficult to deal with and unwilling to accommodate requests by clients. Several highly regarded posters and clients of Mr. Vandecasteele contested your assertions.

While Mr. Vandecasteele kept his exchanges and comments about you private and out of the public eye. You decided to post on a public forum his name, and his business. You posted about his unwillingness to bend to your requirements and his private email to you stating it was better that the two of you end your professional relationship.

Since this is a public forum, several board members posted that Mr. Vandecasteele has been extremely accomodating to their needs. Therefore countering the comments you made.

While this matter should have remained private it was you that decided to name Mr. Vandecasteele and his unwillingness to accept your business.

Wardrobe Girl's business and profession has nothing to do with this matter. The vast majority of the posters and members of this board does not work in the apparel business, and most likely you don't either judging from your previous posts.

The fact is Wardrobe Girls profession is not relevant to her input on this topic as the vast majority of the respones on this thread comes from posters not in the apparel business. Her opinions regardless of her profession is as relevant as any of the posters here.


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

leica said:


> The vast majority of the posters and members of this board does not work in the apparel business, and most likely you don't either judging from your previous posts.


That was funny.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Aaron in Allentown said:


> slav2fashn: Please stop embarrassing yourself. Also, consider apologizing.


Hi Aaron - Will you please refer to a post number in this thread where I made an embarrasing statement? I am not sure what you are referring to.

I presented the verified facts of a transaction and presented a recommendation to make things easier for everyone.

What exactly are you suggesting that I apologize about?


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

zegnamtl said:


> I take it that you are an experienced custom shirt buyer?
> Who have you used successfully in the past and about how many shirts have you had made "custom" to date?


I have about 10 custom shirts from different makers.


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

You supported a disingenuous attack on a respected member of this community with incomplete facts. You did not post the entire email exchange that you had with him, only the parts that you felt supported your argument. When the rest of the exchange was posted, it became very clear (to myself and everyone else on the forum except you) why he chose not to do business with you. 

I have seen many complaints against vendors on this forum. The legitimate complaints are quickly separated from those that have no basis. Go look at the Sartoriani thread if you do not believe that a vendor can be hoist with his own pitard on this forum.

Sorry, but your complaint against Mr. Vandecasteele is groundless. He is entirely within his right to refuse to make a shirt for you, and I completely understand, based on your behavior on this thread, why he made the decision that he did.

Even if you do not think that you behaved inappropriately, either in your exchange with Mr. Vandecasteele or on this thread, please consider the fact that the vast majority of people on this thread disagree with your point of view. Perhaps, even if you do not see it yourself, you are just plain wrong.


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## Terpoxon (Sep 28, 2006)

Gentlemen, 

As we have heard from both sides in the matter, and in the interest of peace, might we just conclude this matter? Sure, disinterested parties can just avoid the thread. But it seems unlikely that further postings will be productive. From here out, it's just going to get uglier and uglier. These sorts of name calling arguments tend to drive people away. Keep in mind, I am not passing judgement on anyone or their posts, just making a plea for civility before it gets ugly.


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## stfu (Apr 30, 2008)

slav2fashn said:


> What exactly are you suggesting that I apologize about?


If you don't know what some of the things are that you might wish to "apologize about", I'd suggest you aren't going to be helped by this or any other similar forums.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

slav2fashn said:


> I have about 10 custom shirts from different makers.


That really does not tell us much.

You refer to it as custom, from my understanding, Freddy is full bespoke.
Most people in N.A. who use the term Custom, really mean tweaked from a standard template, more a la MTM.

To tell a true bespoke tailor you want a 28 long seems rather odd as an actual size means nothing to them. They do not work in sizes and try to break our mind set from being so size focused. If I told my shirt maker here in MTL I wanted a 16 anything, he would tell me to shut up and come get re-measured.

Hard to tell, but something just does not add up.

The sad part is, this thread is already the 6th item on Google when you Google Freddy.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

leica said:


> Let's address the tone of posts, shall we. Your original post about Freddy is nothing less than a poorly disguised attack on the gentleman and his business. The tone of your original post is a poorly disguised warning that the gentleman is difficult to deal with and unwilling to accommodate requests by clients. Several highly regarded posters and clients of Mr. Vandecasteele contested your assertions.
> 
> While Mr. Vandecasteele kept his exchanges and comments about you private and out of the public eye. You decided to post on a public forum his name, and his business. You posted about his unwillingness to bend to your requirements and his private email to you stating it was better that the two of you end your professional relationship.
> 
> ...


I have made no false statements here as Mr Vandecasteele concurred in his post. I am only describing my own personal experience.

Any e-mail that I send at work could be forwarded to the president of my company and I would have no concerns.

As Mr. Vandecasteele said in his post, he was ticked off when he sent the first e-mail in my post, so maybe his e-mail doesn't read as nicely as it could. We're all human, right?


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## Terpoxon (Sep 28, 2006)

I guess not....


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

Is this as funny as the guy who got thrown out of the Andover Shop in Boston?


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

THE END


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> THE END


Well, gosh! Sorry this thread didn't go the way you wanted it to!


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Aaron in Allentown said:


> Well, gosh! Sorry this thread didn't go the way you wanted it to!


Maybe it did?

"The sad part is, this thread is already the 6th item on Google when you Google Freddy."

it is actually the 8th item, sorry.

Before you visit Mr Freddy Vandecasteele in Studio City - Ask Andy ...
Before you visit Mr Freddy Vandecasteele in Studio City Andy's Fashion Forum.
askandyaboutclothes.com/ forum/showthread.php?t=83894 - 95k - 23 hours ago - Cached - Similar pages
More results from www.askandyaboutclothes.com »


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Aaron in Allentown said:


> Well, gosh! Sorry this thread didn't go the way you wanted it to!


Hi Aaron - I could probably take the rest of the week off from work to devote myself to this thread but I do need to get on with my life. Take care.


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## leica (May 13, 2008)

> I have made no false statements here as Mr Vandecasteele concurred in his post. I am only describing my own personal experience.


Yes, you described your version of the story. However your first post read exactly the way you intened for it to be read. A WARNING about doing business with an company unwilling to listen to its client. A statement that several posters on this thread rebutted.



> Any e-mail that I send at work could be forwarded to the president of my company and I would have no concerns.


What on earth does your company's president being able to read your emails have anything to do with this topic?



> As Mr. Vandecasteele said in his post, he was ticked off when he sent the first e-mail in my post, so maybe his e-mail doesn't read as nicely as it could. We're all human, right?


Mr. Vandecasteele's email was a private matter between the two of you. He DID NOT take it public. Simply put this thread and its original post was nothing less than a very poorly disguised attack laced with accusations about a gentleman and his business. Accussations countered by SEVERAL respected board members and their experiences with Mr. Vandecasteele.

It was you that decided the posts your views in a public forum. Mr. Vandecasteele in his professionalism preferred to keep the matter between the two of you.


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## Aaron in Allentown (Oct 26, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> Hi Aaron - I could probably take the rest of the week off from work to devote myself to this thread but I do need to get on with my life. Take care.


You, too. And best of luck in finding someone willing to make you a shirt with a placket that hangs down to your knees.


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## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm going to jump in and add my irrelevent prespective. First, I think I'll jump on Mr. Vandecasteele's side. I believe he has the right to turn anyone away for almost any reason. It is his business afterall. That would be like saying you don't have the right to turn away guests to your home.

I don't think, however, that an e-mail has an expectation of privacy unless stated otherwise. Just like no word of mouth or phone conversation has an expectation of privacy.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Sits a little to close to Wardrobe Girl on a park bench , hoping she likes Guerlain Imperiale. offers my open bag of kettle popcorn and tries to duplicate Burt Lancaster's smile and comes closer to Marty Feldman's.


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

HISMES PARIS said:


> Wardrobe Girl, you seem to be taking far too much satisfaction in the treatment you're giving the OP. Perhaps you have some pent-up aggression toward nit-picky clients that you'd like to let out somewhere else, where the rest of us don't have to suffer through it?


I am taking GREAT satisfaction in knowing that I helped squash someone's attempt to sabotage a well respected man's professional reputation...I have NO problem with picky clients - I have a BIG problem with people that distort the truth in an attempt to destroy someone's reputation. (As we can see from Mr. V's post, I was 100% correct that the ENTIRE story had not been posted)

I don't think too many people suffered through my posts...I offer no apologies



slav2fashn said:


> As far as I can tell WardrobeGirl appears to be in the custom clothing business.
> 
> If WardrobeGirl feels that her comments are fair and her tone is appropriate then she should feel comfortable letting us know which business she represents.


My personal information has absolutely NO bearing whatsoever on this thread



slav2fashn said:


> I have about 10 custom shirts from different makers.


As suspected...a real connoisseur - you better take care of those shirts...they are going to be VERY difficult to replace! After this thread, I doubt you will able to find a shirtmaker in the world that will be willing to do business with you!


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## TheWardrobeGirl (Mar 24, 2008)

Kav said:


> Sits a little to close to Wardrobe Girl on a park bench , hoping she likes Guerlain Imperiale. offers my open bag of kettle popcorn and tries to duplicate Burt Lancaster's smile and comes closer to Marty Feldman's.


LOL!


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## Freddy Vandecasteele (Oct 28, 2005)

I am over it,
I am so glad everybody spelled my name correctely,wich I have a hard time doing myself sometimes.
I appreciate everybody's imput.
Thanks a lot.
Freddy Vandecasteele


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

slav2fashn said:


> I have about 10 custom shirts from different makers.


Were they from about 10 different makers? That is what I would expect.

When digging a hole, it is a good idea to stay away from the edge - you fell in a few pages ago pal.

You complain about the time you spent driving up here from Irvine; how much time have you wasted posting to this thread, which never should have been started in the first place.

Insulting people is not a good way to become popular here. Insulting people that most of us like is an even worse idea.

Trying reading Mr. Carneigie's book, Jim.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

O.K. people, it's approaching the witching hour out here on the west coast of Turtle Island.As William Shakespeare wrote, " Sleep knits up the ravelled sleeve of care." Freddie has a few potential new customers, assuming we didn't scare him too, while I have more google references in case any prospective employers don't believe my clean background checks and passed drug tests at the 'Doc in the Box' Instant Care medical center.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

This thread has some unfortunate posts but it does have a redeeming value for me.

I have been buying American made MTM shirts and before I purchase another, I plan to visit Mr. Vandecasteele.

If I like his shirts half as much as I do his manner of dealing with troublesome customers I will be happy.

Cheers to all and to all a goodnight, Jim.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

zegnamtl said:


> The sad part is, this thread is already the 6th item on Google when you Google Freddy.


I don't think this thread will hurt Mr Vandecasteele one bit. In fact, it will probably enhance his reputation, as the majority of comments are favourable. Remember there is no such thing as bad publicity anyway.

Anyone reading this thread people will hopefully learn the first rule of bespoke: learn to get on with your artisan. Become friends in a long term relationship. Stop shopping like you were at Walmart with anonymous assistants. If you can't do this bespoke will never be for you.

If you make slightly complicated requests (I do it all the time) be extra nice and don't do it on your first or second order. Don't tell the artisan what to do, but rather ask politely if it is possible for a certain style or feature be incorporated into the finished garment, and let them work out how to achieve that. Offer to pay more. Give the artisan plenty of time and don't hurry them up. Always stop and chat a little, and give little gifts from time to time. Take a handful of business cards and send your friends and family along. Write a glowing review on AAAC. Give a bit of free professional advice from your own area of expertise eg legal advice if you are a lawyer.

Bespoke is also about old fashioned values of community, friendship and looking after each other. As long as people value such things, bespoke tailoring will survive.


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## mipcar (Dec 12, 2007)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> - heck, I don't know nuthin' 'bout horses except they are ugly and both ends and uncomfortable in middle.
> cheers, Jim.


Just to be contrary and bring in a bit of humour. I think it is supposed to be
"Dangerous at both ends and uncomfortable in the middle"

To which I've always liked to add (from a safe distance) like some of the women I've known. lol:devil:

Mychael


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

Several months ago I had a dissappointing experience with a well known and respected MTM house. It was vexing to say the least. I sought advice here from The Forum, but I did it another way. I PMed one of the experienced members here about my problem just to get a read on my situation. The member replied via PM, and everything turned out all right at the conclusion. I may have mentioned the firm's name but I can't remember now.

The point is if a situation is questionable, and you maybe in the wrong, in my opinion it's better to keep the matter private. Had I posted in public I may have received majority support. Had I been wrong, and it turned out my expectations exceeded the realm of reality, I would have embarassed myself in front of a dealer I've been with for a good number of years, I could have damaged other relationships said dealer would have with other customers, and all I would have gained is a multipage thread doing my nuerosis no good.

The majority of my work is creating paintings on commission. Patrons come to me as they've seen my work and like the way I do it. If any prospective client starts telling me how to compose a work, or what colors to use I ask them, "Do you want a painting of mine, or do you want to be the artist and have me only as the hired help that operates the brushes?" I also state that if this is the case I refuse to sign the work. I have indeed fired clients in the past for the offense of, "Not knowing what they want, and insisting they get it."

In the early '60s management of The Saturday Evening Post changed. They wanted Norman Rockwell to paint a cover painting for them as he had been absent from The Post for a while. A bright, young art director from The Post came to Rockwell's studio to discuss the work. The art director started to tell Rockwell, who by this time had been painting Post covers for over 40 years, how to make his brush strokes, and in what direction. Rockwell dismissed the art director from his studio, and The Post from his list of clients.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

mipcar said:


> Just to be contrary and bring in a bit of humour. I think it is supposed to be
> "Dangerous at both ends and uncomfortable in the middle"
> 
> To which I've always liked to add (from a safe distance) like some of the women I've known. lol:devil:
> ...


Thanks - I like your version better than mine.

As to you last sentence, I can't imagine what a safe distance would be - seperated by an ocean perhaps.

Cheers, Jim.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

slav2fashn said:


> Preu - If you reread my first post and all my post in this thread you should see that I have said nothing derrogatory or hostile. I simply presented the facts of a transaction, which Mr Vandecasteele confirmed in his own post.


Seriously Slav, think yourself over.

There is a reason he didn't want your business, and it didn't have to do with your aftershave. You are dealing with a craftsman who obviously has enough success to avoid troublesome customers. If you want his product you need to change something... something intrinsic. Think about yourself.

Or quietly move on, and move in the circles that work well with you.


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

You could always give Sartoriani a try. Could be interesting.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Mitchell said:


> You could always give Sartoriani a try. Could be interesting.


From the Sartoriani website:

"When you come to us...you are always with the knowledge that your garment will be crafted according to your exacting preferences."

Good call, Mitchell.


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Sator said:


> I don't think this thread will hurt Mr Vandecasteele one bit. In fact, it will probably enhance his reputation, as the majority of comments are favourable. Remember there is no such thing as bad publicity anyway.
> .........


I guess I was being a little wishy washy in my delivery as the motive/desired end and how it could have easily gone the other way and what the effect would have been relating to the speed of google, had so many not defended Freddy so quickly.

I hope I am making more sense? End of a very long day today.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

slav2fashn said:


> From the Sartoriani website:
> 
> "When you come to us...you are always with the knowledge that your garment will be crafted according to your exacting preferences."
> 
> Good call, Mitchell.


Be sure to search AAAC and SF for more information. You shall discover what was meant.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

While my experience was not the best I can laugh about it now. Remember that episode of Seinfeld with the Soup Nazi who said "No soup for you!"?

I have updated my forum signature, at least for now, in honor of this thread. I hope you like it.


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

slav2fashn said:


> While my experience was not the best I can laugh about it now. Remember that episode of Seinfeld with the Soup Nazi who said "No soup for you!"?
> 
> I have updated my forum signature, at least for now, in honor of this thread. I hope you like it.


Your signature is rude which is not surprising.


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## leica (May 13, 2008)

> While my experience was not the best I can laugh about it now. Remember that episode of Seinfeld with the Soup Nazi who said "No soup for you!"?
> 
> I have updated my forum signature, at least for now, in honor of this thread. I hope you like it.
> __________________
> _"I not make your shirt"_


Apparently you have learned nothing from the responses to your remarks on this thread. Rudeness and arrogance appears to be your trademark.


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## harrycoverts (Jun 23, 2005)

While my experience was not the best I can laugh about it now. Remember that episode of Seinfeld with the Soup Nazi who said "No soup for you!"?

I have updated my forum signature, at least for now, in honor of this thread. I hope you like it.
__________________
"I not make your shirt" 




I've intentionally stayed out of this thread, despite being a loyal customer of Freddy's. 

Freddy chose not to take you on as a client because the risks far outweighed the rewards. For example, coming to his shop for your initial meeting with a computer, listing all of your shirt stylings and requirements (in inches...Freddy measures and computes in centimeters, by the way) as opposed to letting him explain his process to you and allowing him to take his own measurements, was no way to endear yourself to him. 

My hope was that you would learn from your experience. Clearly you have not learned anything. On Post #90, you indicated that this was "The End” of the thread, at least from your perspective. Nonetheless, you have continued to post on this matter. You have likened Freddy to an obnoxious character on a television sitcom...a pathetic attempt to hold him up to ridicule. Moreover, your adopted quotation also represents an attack on Freddy’s communication skills. English is not Freddy's first language, but then again, you knew this. 

Your insensitivity in this matter knows no bounds. Do us all a favor, and go over to the other Forum, the one that tolerates rudeness and immature behavior.

Regards,

harrycoverts


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

I have bought shirts from Freddy on a number of occasions. If I had more money, I'd be buying shirts from him every couple of months. He is my go-to shirt maker, and I wouldn't consider going to anyone else.

Having visited Freddy on a few occasions, and exchanging tons of e-mails with him, I have been in retrospect, very detailed about instructions and measurements, and he has responded with nothing but class and as a gentleman to all of them. He has been very accommodating when I ask him to adjust this by 1/4" here, adjust this length by 3/8" there.

I don't believe the OP described how his visit went down at Freddy's workshop. Typically, Freddy likes to take measurements on day 1, get your design details, and make a shirt. He makes an incomplete shirt where he can adjust everything, from the cuffs, collar, length, etc. for one to try on the next visit to get close to nailing down the pattern. If the OP is already asking for changes to be made after the first visit, but before the first shirt, it wouldn't be hard for me to believe he'd be a pain in the ass and doesn't understand the process. 

Unlike the OP, Freddy has remained a gentleman throughout this exchange.

If you're looking for a great shirtmaker in SoCal, don't hesitate to check Freddy out. Feel free to PM me about my experience at any time.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Freddy's reply was a bit testy, though I can understand why. I'm just surprised this young man is so NOT willing to learn anything from this. I'm even betting he would be willing to work with him if he had just taken a step back and said, "Let's see where this goes." After all, you can make adjustments during the process. That's what fittings are for, I imagine. 

On the other hand, I'm not sure how willing he'd be to work with him now. The signature is pure immaturity. GG, mate.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Wow. Slav, I have to admit that I'm glad I don't know you and hope I never meet you.

I usually try to be civil, but you are just nasty. In fact, you are so nasty that you are shooting yourself in the foot and making Freddy into a sympathetic figure.

Then, you ignore a lot of people who have had good experiences and recommend him. I have no dog in this fight and should probably not post, but you are over the top and then some. You are trying to damage this guy, but you have probably drummed up more business for him. I'm glad you don't work for our company. Not only are you nasty; you are ineffective.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I usually try to be civil, but you are just nasty. In fact, you are so nasty that you are shooting yourself in the foot and making Freddy into a sympathetic figure.


I'm going to have to agree with this Slav, you are taking your displeasure too far. And let me say that when I read your first post I was not unsympathetic to your position as I tend to generally lean toward the consumer in such disputes; however, the more I've read the more I am coming to the conclusion that you may have been extremely difficult to work with from the vendor's perspective. If so, he did the right thing for both of you.

After all, at the end of the day you have the right to have your shirts made exactly like you want and he has the right to make shirts exactly the way he wants. If there can be no mutual agreement between these rights that each of you have, then you both have the right to not do business with the other. The discussion should have ended at that point.

Having said that, I can agree that he should have been more tactful in his comments to you; however, it is clear that English is not his first language. You really should cut him some slack on this rather than make fun of his use of the language. That was in very poor taste.

Cruiser


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> While my experience was not the best I can laugh about it now. Remember that episode of Seinfeld with the Soup Nazi who said "No soup for you!"?
> 
> I have updated my forum signature, at least for now, in honor of this thread. I hope you like it.


That is a deeply offensive remark. Please post another forum where such boorish behaviour is tolerated. You are not, IMO, welcome here.


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## ashie259 (Aug 25, 2005)

I've just read this thread from start to finish and found it jaw-droppingly compelling. What a lesson, if one were needed, in how to behave and how not to behave!

I find it staggering that anyone would seek out a skilful, knowledgeable and experienced shirtmaker and then not have the sense, wisdom and humility to defer to that skill, knowledge and experience.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

ashie259 said:


> I find it staggering that anyone would seek out a skilful, knowledgeable and experienced shirtmaker and then not have the sense, wisdom and humility to defer to that skill, knowledge and experience.


I can't go that far. I think a consumer who is paying his/her hard earned money for a product has every right to demand that the product meet his/her expectations regardless of the skill, knowledge, or experience of the vendor; and has no obligation to defer to that skill, knowledge, or experience no matter how dumb the decision to do so might be.

Having said that, the vendor also has every right to decline to provide a product if he/she is not comfortable doing so. In this case the shirtmaker was under no obligation to make the customer's shirts for him if he thought the demands were such that he didn't want to meet them.

Right up to the point that the shirtmaker notified the customer that he would not be making the customer's shirts as requested, both parties were simply exercising their rights. Neither party was wrong at this point.

This happens everyday in business. Customers put out specifications for bids and vendors say whether they can, or want to, provide a given product or service for a specified amount of money. Some decline to do so from the get go, others say that they can do the job but need more money, and if the customer is lucky at least one will agree to do the job at the stated price. The customer can then do business with the one who meets his specs.

This transaction veered off course when the vendor declined to do the job with perhaps less tact than would be expected, but we don't really know the tone of the customer at that point so even this is unclear. Then the customer exacerbated the problem by getting really nasty in a public forum when he should have simply moved on to another vendor who was willing to do the work he wanted done at a price he wanted to pay.

For example, when I needed a new roof on my house I knew who I wanted to do the job but I got several estimates anyway. Turns out that the guy I wanted was higher than the others because he would not put the new roof down on top of the old roof like I wanted. He said that it was his policy to remove the old roof and inspect the plywood before putting the new roof on.

What right did I have to demand that he do the job the way I wanted? My options were to either let him do it the way he wanted to do it or hire someone else, while his options were to either do it the way I wanted or lose me as a customer. Since it was obvious that he was perfectly willing to lose me as a customer rather than do it like I wanted, I decided to concede to his skill and knowledge and let him do it his way. But had I not done so I would have had no right to be angry at him and trash him on the internet because he wouldn't do what I wanted. And that's where this transaction went down the wrong road.

Cruiser


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## David V (Sep 19, 2005)

hotnikeT said:


> advertising blah blah blah


A "Time Out" is due you.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Bishop of Briggs said:


> That is a deeply offensive remark.


Yes.



Bishop of Briggs said:


> Please post another forum where such boorish behaviour is tolerated. You are not, IMO, welcome here.


I know you've been here since last September, but isn't your sense of ownership a bit much? I thought you were a moderator at first.


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## jrex (Apr 7, 2008)

Freddy is not cutting and sewing Lands End MTM.

Freddy is a true bespoke maker. He takes measurements and drafts a pattern for you for your first shirt style. He bastes together parts that might need adjustment.

When you come for your second fitting, a sleeve may need to be made longer. Maybe you tensed when he was measuring you and the collar is too tight or too loose. He notes these changes and changes the pattern for you. This is not corporate MTM with 100 different people passing the buck for bad work.

His prices are BEYOND reasonable, particularly for the quality. AND HE DOES NOT MARK UP THE PRICE OF CLOTH (I would if I were in his position).

He was recommended to me by a dear friend (who was photo'ed in one of Freddy's shirts on the sartorialist btw) who has worked with many tailors in EU and US.

I guess the greatest thing about Freddy for me, though, is that when I call him I hear this friendly Belgian on the other end of the line. Each time I drive 45 minutes each way to see him I have a smile ear to ear.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I love that western style shirt. It doesn't look affected on him whatsoever.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I like Freddy's shirt, too! (If he can't find a nice shirt to wear, who can???)


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Jovan said:


> Freddy's reply was a bit testy, though I can understand why. I'm just surprised this young man is so NOT willing to learn anything from this. I'm even betting he would be willing to work with him if he had just taken a step back and said, "Let's see where this goes." After all, you can make adjustments during the process. That's what fittings are for, I imagine.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm not sure how willing he'd be to work with him now. The signature is pure immaturity. GG, mate.


'A bit testy and not willing to learn from this' - Jovan, have you been reading the same thread that the rest of us have? It does not seem so.

I thought Freddy's post showed a lot of class and he has 
obviously learned not to deal with troublesome customers long before you were born. I am not sure I understand your reference to a 'young man'. I am under the impression from reading posts at one of the boards from which you have been banned that you are about 20 years old - am I wrong?

Your assignment, if you choose to accept it, is to go back and reread this entire thread and see if you come to the same confused conclusion.

Speaking of confused, your posts would be easier to understand if you used fewer pronouns. When you use 'he' and 'him' in the same sentence and you are referring to different people, your meaning may not be immediatly clear to readers.

Cheers, Jim.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Aside from 'Hercule Poirot' the only other belgian I've known was my Mallinois. We drove out to a sheepranch now grazed by Phoenix Arizona basin asphalt and she picked us out from the litter by wiggling in excitement, and naming herself Wiggles. I've been watching this 'economy' like an overpatient turkey vulture waiting for something to happen. Well, I'm tired of waiting and I'm going out to kill something. I want some of Freddie's shirts.


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## Mute (Apr 3, 2005)

Taking a private matter into a public arena with some creative cut and pasting isn't just inappropriate, it's bush league. 

Reading between the lines, it's clear you don't really know much about what to look for in a bespoke shirt, yet you feel qualified to dictate every detail and specification that your shirt will need. If I were in Mr. Vandercasteele's shoes, I'd have rejected your business also. Micromanagement is bad enough, but having it done by someone clueless is worse. When, not if but when, the shirt doesn't turn out well by following your specs, guess who will get the blame? I'm sure you're not going to look at your own contribution to the failure. Don't expect much sympathy or agreement with your opinion on this matter.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

jrex said:


> Freddy is not cutting and sewing Lands End MTM.
> 
> Freddy is a true bespoke maker. He takes measurements and drafts a pattern for you for your first shirt style. He bastes together parts that might need adjustment.


This is the part of the discussion that I just don't get. The man's skill level and competence is a moot point. Even if he is the finest shirtmaker on the planet with skills that nobody else even begins to approach, the customer still has every right in the world to request how and what it is that he wants done. After all, he is paying for it. The customer did nothing wrong in this regard.

Where the customer was wrong was in getting angry because the shirtmaker declined his request, something the shirtmaker had every right to do, and taking his anger into a public forum. He then made this worse by making fun of the fact that English is not the shirtmaker's first language. Both of these acts by the OP were wrong in every way.

But to continue to talk about how great the shirtmaker is at his craft makes it appear that the customer had no rights in the transaction. He had as much right to ask for certain things as the shirtmaker had the right to decline his requests.

Cruiser


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> 'A bit testy and not willing to learn from this' - Jovan, have you been reading the same thread that the rest of us have? It does not seem so.
> 
> I thought Freddy's post showed a lot of class and he has
> obviously learned not to deal with troublesome customers long before you were born. I am not sure I understand your reference to a 'young man'. I am under the impression from reading posts at one of the boards from which you have been banned that you are about 20 years old - am I wrong?
> ...


I think it's pretty clear who I am referring to, as Freddy is not a young man. I'm saying his EMAIL reply of "You scare me, you want to micromanage everything" comes off as testy. I have read the entire thread. _You_ may want to re-read what I posted. It's pretty obvious that I side with Mr. Vandecasteele.

You're right, what I said was slightly confusing. My Mistake.

I think I know who you are from the other boards you refer to. There is no need for hostility here. Let me buy you a drink if you ever come by Florida, or I find myself in California.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

Kav and to others wishing to make the pilgrimage to Freddy's

He store is hidden inside a busines complex, behind a gate

Its south and east of the 101/405 interchange...along the left side of the road if travelling east bound towards downtown L.A. while on Ventura Blvd.

You must know the secret code to get in (hint, call Freddy to make an appt. and then call once you've arrived so he can open the gate)

Its a one man show, so when you ask to see the work shop, don't expect to be greeted with the sight of numerous barely legal 18 year female virgins working away. 

Expect to see a clearn shop, with an adequate supply of fabric and books to order from. But more importantly, expect to be greeted by a shirt maker who instills confidence in your purchase.


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## Bishop of Briggs (Sep 7, 2007)

Jovan said:


> Yes.
> 
> I know you've been here since last September, but isn't your sense of ownership a bit much? I thought you were a moderator at first.


I do not have a sense of ownership, just a sense of integrity and common decency. The OP, as his comments demonstrate, lacks both. Got a problem with that opinion?


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Not at all, I in fact agree with your opinion.


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

Is it really necessary to post a picture of Freddy on this thread? If you haven't already, perhaps it would be halfway decent to ask him if it's alright. Admittedly, Freddy is getting some publicity here, but I surely wouldn't want someone to put my photo up.

I don't think the issue is that the OP doesn't have the "right" to ask for exact specifications on a first shirt that was yet made. Of course he can ask for anything. The issue is the OP not understanding why this approach is not preferable when dealing with someone with enough experience to know this is not the way to make bespoke clothing, and not understanding that the response he got was perfectly reasonable and that a "warning" or "public service announcement," was not warranted.


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## Martinis at 8 (Apr 14, 2006)

I come back from months in deepest, darkest Africa trying to bring you oil more cost effectively and I am greeted by this thread! 

One of the things I love about being in business for myself is that I can tell the client "No" 

M8


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Jovan said:


> I think it's pretty clear who I am referring to, as Freddy is not a young man. I'm saying his EMAIL reply of "You scare me, you want to micromanage everything" comes off as testy. I have read the entire thread. _You_ may want to re-read what I posted. It's pretty obvious that I side with Mr. Vandecasteele.
> 
> You're right, what I said was slightly confusing. My Mistake.
> 
> I think I know who you are from the other boards you refer to. There is no need for hostility here. Let me buy you a drink if you ever come by Florida, or I find myself in California.


Well, I don't agree about the 'testy' part and still find part of your post slightly confusing, but reasonable people should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.

I think I was needlessly rude, I apologize and appreciate you handling it as such a gentleman.

Btw, welcome to Ask Andy.

Oh, as to who I am, I use a screen name of JimInSoCalif at most boards except were I play Backgammon where I am OscarTheGrouch - the later name is because I love the Muppets.

Peace, Jim.


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## jrex (Apr 7, 2008)

teddyriley said:


> Is it really necessary to post a picture of Freddy on this thread? If you haven't already, perhaps it would be halfway decent to ask him if it's alright. Admittedly, Freddy is getting some publicity here, but I surely wouldn't want someone to put my photo up.


I doubt he minds.

edit: He doesn't mind.


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## jrex (Apr 7, 2008)

teddyriley said:


> The issue is the OP not understanding why this approach is not preferable when dealing with someone with enough experience to know this is not the way to make bespoke clothing, and not understanding that the response he got was perfectly reasonable and that a "warning" or "public service announcement," was not warranted.


Can you rephrase that? I am a little lost. Many words, haphazard punctuation.


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## batesmarshall (May 17, 2008)

jrex said:


> His prices are BEYOND reasonable, particularly for the quality.


Speaking of which, can someone advise the range of prices one can expect? What would a western style shirt like the one he's sporting cost?

Thanks!


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

PM JREX and he will tell you.Just don't squirm like a bannana slug, they are bespoke!


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

Kav said:


> Well, I'm tired of waiting and I'm going out to kill something. I want some of Freddie's shirts.


Need help?


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## Freddy Vandecasteele (Oct 28, 2005)

slav2fashn said:


> While my experience was not the best I can laugh about it now. Remember that episode of Seinfeld with the Soup Nazi who said "No soup for you!"?
> 
> I have updated my forum signature, at least for now, in honor of this thread. I hope you like it.


Where is the signature?
Now you see it, now you don't
Is it that easy? Mabe Mr Slav can remove the Original Post
Regards Freddy Vandecasteele


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

slav2fashn said:


> I like the user name but *I prefer standard custom shirts.*


Six pages and no one commented on a "standard" custom shirt. No one else found that funny?


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## zegnamtl (Apr 19, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Six pages and no one commented on a "standard" custom shirt. No one else found that funny?


I made a reference to "custom", but you know me, the shy, timid Canuk, I beat around the bush a little before I drag out the baseball bat! :--)


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

slav2fashn said:


> I sent Mr Vandecasteele an e-mail after my visit to his shop on Saturday asking for my shirt to be 28" long with 8 buttons spaced 3.5" down the placket.
> 
> Mr Vandecasteele replied with the following e-mail:
> 
> "Dear Mr ---,You scare me, .


That's a sad response from a bespoke maker. It appears that you'd be better off trying Anto in Beverly Hills; they'll do backflips to accommodate your every whim, albeit at a slightly higher price-point. Personally, in the future , I will make it a point not to recommend Freddy for anything beyond MTM.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Freddy Vandecasteele said:


> Where is the signature?
> Now you see it, now you don't
> Is it that easy? Mabe Mr Slav can remove the Original Post
> Regards Freddy Vandecasteele


Mr Vandecasteele - If you would like me to remove the original post then I can put in a request to Andy to see if he will remove it.

In return, I would like you to consider using a more professional e-mail like the one that I provided as an example in post #33:

Dear Sir - Thank you for taking the time to visit my store on Saturday. Unfortunately, I do not work to your level of specification as I find it to be too restrictive. I hope that you find another bespoke tailor that is a better fit for your needs.
Regards,
...

This type of e-mail clearly articulates your needs and would certainly not spawn a 150-post thread on this forum.

Also, I was looking forward to the shirt that we designed together. If you will make me the shirt that we designed (with 8 buttons down the front) then I promise that I will do everything that I can to remove this post from the forum. Of course, I will send payment in full. You have my e-mail address.

Sincerley,
Slav


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Put a sock in it.


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## Freddy Vandecasteele (Oct 28, 2005)

I do not want you to remove your post.
I was asking how you where able to remove your "Signature"
As for making your shirt that is an other story.
Freddy Vandecasteele


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> Well, I don't agree about the 'testy' part and still find part of your post slightly confusing, but reasonable people should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.
> 
> I think I was needlessly rude, I apologize and appreciate you handling it as such gentleman.
> 
> ...


No problem, sir. I knew you wouldn't be able to turn down a free pint.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Freddy - It appeared that you were interested in having me remove the post. If you would like the post to remain then so be it.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

*Life's Rough All Over....*

So it is time to lighten the tone:

Very pleased to be employed. The project leader likes me a lot. Nobody has crapped on me. It looks like they are going to let me live long enough to get medical insurance so I can get my teeth fixed and have weight loss surgery. I am getting paid what for me is big money. I had my prescriptions refilled. I just paid off last year's taxes!


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Freddy Vandecasteele said:


> ...I was asking how you where able to remove your "Signature"...


You just edit it on "User CP". It's fun.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

*Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 203*



Orsini said:


> You just edit it on "User CP". It's fun.


Like this:


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Orsini - your rule #203 is funny


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## jrex (Apr 7, 2008)

Tomasso said:


> That's a sad response from a bespoke maker. It appears that you'd be better off trying Anto in Beverly Hills; they'll do backflips to accommodate your every whim, albeit at a slightly higher price-point. Personally, in the future , I will make it a point not to recommend Freddy for anything beyond MTM.


1) Freddy does not make "made to measure". Bespoke damn it, bespoke. Custom, s'il vous plait.

2) Maybe you ask a tailor to do some kind of spinning plates routine. I just ask Freddy to make me shirts.


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## kngrimm (Nov 18, 2007)

::sigh::

Tomasso - this is one instance. One customer did not click with Freddy. One. Do you see anyone else with negative comments?

I would be shocked to learn Anto has never parted ways with a customer. The only difference is that person didn't post on a public clothes forum.

Freddy is wonderful to work with and makes an amazing shirt. I think we need to move past the idea that Freddy is 'testy' or 'hard to work with'. He is not&#8230; just isn't true. 
At some point in the near future I'll try to post some photos with the shirts on me&#8230; it's time to focus on the real issue - the quality of his work. 
In lieu of these pictures (probably a couple weeks), I'll just say that they are the finest shirts I own.. and soon you'll get to see and decide for yourself.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

slav2fashn said:


> *In return, I would like you to consider using a more professional e-mail like the one that I provided as an example in post #33:*
> 
> Dear Sir - Thank you for taking the time to visit my store on Saturday. Unfortunately, I do not work to your level of specification as I find it to be too restrictive. I hope that you find another bespoke tailor that is a better fit for your needs.
> Regards,
> ...


Oh my god. I would say you are a woman, if that would not smear all women. This post basically translates to: *it is not what you said, it is how you said it. *


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

Tomasso said:


> That's a sad response from a bespoke maker. It appears that you'd be better off trying Anto in Beverly Hills; they'll do backflips to accommodate your every whim, albeit at a slightly higher price-point. Personally, in the future , I will make it a point not to recommend Freddy for anything beyond MTM.


Nice. One responsive e-mail meant between the two parties and now you will not recommend someone you haven't tried. But I guess if one were inclined to tell Freddy how to make a first shirt within a 1/8" inch specifications, a different maker is in order. And as already pointed out, he only does bespoke. Bespoke isn't a license to tell the maker to do exactly what one wants in contravention to the maker's process.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

teddyriley said:


> Bespoke isn't a license to tell the maker to do exactly what one wants in contravention to the maker's process.


"Contravention" indicates that an agreement, or contract, has already been entered into and if that is the case, of course one doesn't have the right to demand something different than what was agreed upon. Bespoke has nothing to do with an agreed upon contract. This would apply even if Aunt Hilda was making the shirt and it is the first one she has ever made.

But until there is an agreement between the customer and vendor it is the customer's money and he has every right in the world to tell the vendor exactly what he wants. Whether the vendor will agree to this is a different matter entirely. Obviously there will be no contract or agreement if he does not.

I have no problem with agreeing that the OP behaved badly in this matter, but not because he made certain demands on the shirtmaker which the shirtmaker declined to abide by. Both parties were well within their rights up to this point. There seems to be this thought process in this thread that because of the reputation of this shirtmaker that it is somehow in bad taste to tell him what you expect from the shirt you are paying him to make.

I don't care if I'm hiring Michelangelo to paint my ceiling, I'm going to let him know what I want before I enter into an agreement to pay him my hard earned money. If he doesn't want to do it to my specs he has the right to say no, and if I don't agree to what he wants to do then I have the right to say no. But don't tell me I don't have the right to tell him up front what I want just because of who he is. It's my money.

For the record I would probably let Michelangelo paint it however he wanted, but that's beside the point. :icon_smile_big:

Cruiser


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

^^I didn't know the use of the word "contravention" implicated contract law. A simple look in the dictionary defines contravention as an action counter to something. I'm not a word expert, but I believe I used that word correctly.

As to everything else you said, I don't disagree. Of course as a consumer you can ask for whatever you want, but if you don't get it, the point is don't be a baby, cry on a public forum and attempt to sully a guy's reputation by posting a thread that the OP attempted to cloak as a public service announcement.


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## Cruiser (Jul 21, 2006)

teddyriley;780318Of course as a consumer you can ask for whatever you want said:


> Upon that point I am in total agreement with you. :icon_smile:
> 
> Cruiser


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## jrex (Apr 7, 2008)

Cruiser said:


> There seems to be this thought process in this thread that because of the reputation of this shirtmaker that it is somehow in bad taste to tell him what you expect from the shirt you are paying him to make.


No no! That's not it at all. The irony is that Freddy is very, very flexible. Because he knows I am very particular, more often than not he will be very thorough in asking me to clarify what I want done. What size placket, relative length of the shirt, etc, etc. I don't say, "Twenty-nine inches". I say, "I think here." Or, "Maybe an inch shorter."

The problem lies in the fact that Freddy's skill is in the drafting of the pattern, which relies on his process of taking measurements. At a point asking for specific measurements in areas not related to the "styling" really makes him a blind seamstress, because he won't know how the shirt will fit because it's based on some set of arbitrary (compared to his usual process) rules. Or maybe he _does_ know that it _won't_ fit.

Contract pattern makers in the wider apparel industry usually charge more to make patterns requesting usually incomplete but specific measurements rather than from an existing block or from a fit model because who knows what the outcome will be vs. what the client had in mind? These types of patternmakers generate patterns from sketches based on specific company blocks or generic size templates. The two main objectives for patternmakers to achieve are the client's desired fit and styling. If a patternmaker doesn't think he can interpret a client's desired fit and styling cost effectively (for whatever reason), many times he will decline the business.

Back to the bespoke shirtmaker. In our case, Freddy's name is on the label. Word of mouth is how business spreads... Maybe he doesn't want a sartorial monstrosity with his name attached.


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## teddyriley (Apr 27, 2006)

It wouldn't surprise me if, assuming Freddy were willing to make the shirt as the OP requested, the OP started a thread warning to stay away from Freddy because Freddy did in fact follow the OP's spefications to a tee, which in turn, led to an ill-fitting shirt that Freddy should have warned him against.


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## Falconboy (May 10, 2008)

Perhaps this supposition is ultimately why Freddy told OP to go pound sand? I think that's how I've been reading these pages since the beginning


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Oh, me. Since everyone else has jumped in I can't restrain tossing in a few cliches. "He who treats himself has a fool for a physician" comes to mind. Likewise someone consulting an expert who isn't willing to listen to advice--at least listen--before insisting on something else. Sometimes it works out well--like my suit with the bright red Bemberg lining. I was leaning to burgundy, he wanted blue then "You want red? This is red..." I love it, but a shirt disaster would be out front for everyone to see.

But a battle of wits against an unarmed man really comes to mind here. I'm always impressed by the overall fairness of the posters here. Somebody done done you wrong and, by God, here comes the cavalry to the rescue. But if the first handful of posters don't agree with you, it's time to silently steal away.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi cdavant - Thank you for your cliches.



cdavant said:


> Likewise someone consulting an expert who isn't willing to listen to advice--at least listen--before insisting on something else.


We had already taken initial measurements for the shirt and length was not discussed, I sent the length request afterwards. Therefore, it does not appear that it was a matter of me not listening. Rather, it appears that my request "scared" Freddy, to use his words.



cdavant said:


> But if the first handful of posters don't agree with you, it's time to silently steal away.


You posted message 168 to this thread. I don't think that I have posted more than 10 messages to this thread. Therefore, it appears that your concept of this issue may be oversimplified. However, I completely understand that cliches, along with the people that use them gratuitously, often have a tendency to oversimplify things.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Put TWO socks in it.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

AND STUFF IT!!!!! :crazy:


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## NukeMeSlowly (Jul 28, 2005)

Aaron in Allentown said:


> Is this as funny as the guy who got thrown out of the Andover Shop in Boston?


That was not funny at all.


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

teddyriley said:


> Bespoke isn't a license to tell the maker to do exactly what one wants.


Who's paying whom here?

The OP's few simple requests seem reasonable of any bespoke shirtmaker. Am I missing something here?????

Would you quiver in a corner as your architect dictated every detail of your space without having any input at all?

Have you ever actually commissioned anything or do you sit in your t-shirt, shorts and flip flops pontificating on matters bespoke?


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

Tomasso said:


> Who's paying whom here?
> 
> The OP's few simple requests seem reasonable of any bespoke shirtmaker. Am I missing something here?????
> 
> ...


I agree that having a garment crafted as bespoke does mean you may have the item made to one's exacting specifications.

The impression I'm getting here goes to the matter of tact between customer and craftsman, and how to present one's wishes, and just how demanding a customer's specs should be. The example of this would be, "I want a shirt made from this fabric, cut to fit my body, and I'm concerned about my long neck, and stocky arms." That's a reasonable request. Unreasonable would be, " I want the buttons to have the stitches all face the same way being spaced in descending incraments as they reach the bottom of the shirt, and there must be no buckling of the shirt, or else."

None of us were there with Slav and Freddy to witness the transaction so we have no access to the details of the relationship. We really can't tell how demanding the situation was.

But after reading these posts, including the signature faux pas I have a feeling that someone in the deal in question was behaving a bit to one side.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Conversation with a German gunsmith years ago " Helmuth, I want to install this really neat cocking piece peep site on my Banner Mauser 98." Helmuth " Nien!das ist nicht gut!" I learned the already slow locktime of a 98 mauser could actually fail to fire some european primers- and I only used RWS ammo in this rifle.Helmuth said cocking piece peepsites were an englishman invention. Palaver with my saddlemaker " Jack, I want a Californio centerfire rig with butterfly skirts and a nice tall horn for dallying my new Maquey rope." Jack " hey, let me introduce you to Mark one of these days, Great roper Mark, Just don't look at his hand or make a face when you shake it. Man, that was one hell of a wreck, Mark is a Texas hard and fast man and he tried using a Californio reata one day and you know, them centerfire saddles can rock and pull you half out of yer taps if you ain't raised in one. Them docs had a hell of a time reattaching what fingers we were able to pick out of the arena dust what weren't smashed by thet bray-mer bull." My hopefully future conversation with Freddie " I need a white shirt, French cuffs. Heres my Sam Hober ties, I only wear this width so You can match the proper collar spread and I pay with this really old fashioned linen with dead white guys on it. I need the shirts sometime in the next 3- 4 months.


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## ColeFieldHouse (Aug 26, 2005)

slav2fashn said:


> Mr Vandecasteele - If you would like me to remove the original post then I can put in a request to Andy to see if he will remove it.
> 
> *In return, I would like you to consider using a more professional e-mail like the one that I provided as an example in post #33:*
> 
> ...


Seriously? We have model email replies now? We have a 150 post thread because you have fanned the flames with statements like these two.


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

ColeFieldHouse said:


> you have fanned the flames with statements like these two.


Why chastise a member for sharing his bad experience with a maker. Would you rather that he kept it to himself? :icon_scratch:


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## Jim In Sunny So Calif (May 13, 2006)

Tomasso said:


> Why chastise a member for sharing his bad experience with a maker. Would you rather that he kept it to himself? :icon_scratch:


In this instance, Yes. Or was that a trick question? :icon_smile_big:

Although I think the OP achieved the opposite of the result he wanted. After reading his posts, many or perhaps most people see him as a very difficult to please customer and everyone else who has had dealings with Mr. Vandecasteele provide a positive endorsement.

Folks, isn't about time we let this thread die?

Cheers, Jim.


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## Mute (Apr 3, 2005)

Tomasso said:


> Why chastise a member for sharing his bad experience with a maker. Would you rather that he kept it to himself? :icon_scratch:


When it's one he likely created himself? Yes.


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> In this instance, Yes. Or was that a trick question? :icon_smile_big:
> 
> Folks, isn't about time we let this thread die?
> 
> Cheers, Jim.


Just a few weeks ago I was voting for the Sartoriani threads as having a remarkable shelf life. This thread has a life of its own.

Is there a record for the longest thread running around here outside of "What are you wearing today?


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## Tomasso (Aug 17, 2005)

Jim In Sunny So Calif said:


> many or perhaps most people see him as a very difficult to please customer


OK, it appears that I've entered _Bazzoro World_, where the victim is portrayed as the perpetrator. :crazy:


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

Tomasso said:


> OK, it appears that I've entered _Bazzoro World_, where the victim is portrayed as the perpetrator. :crazy:


I think that's a little strong. How was the OP victimized?

It's like I said before. None of us were there to see the actual conversations. We're commenting on what we read in this thread. In my opinion the OP came on a bit strong and the vendor decided to not accept the work. End of story.

I've fired clients myself under similar circumstances. I paint the way I paint. I have specific criteria that I follow based on classical theories of composition and execution. If a prospective client starts up with me about their theories, and how their spouse took painting lessons at one time, etc, etc, I tell them I won't do their work and sign my name. You can tell when a client is going to make your life missearable right from the beginning.

If you're bassing the comment by the vendor's reply to the OP, we've established that the vendor has English as his second or third language so perhaps what he was trying to express came off as strong by the standards of us who have English as a first language.

In looking back through the posts on this thread and reading the OP's replies later on where he changes his signature to mock, and come across as making fun of the vendor's command of the English languauge I, for one, can only make an educated guess as how the original conversations went.

Or is a craftsman supposed to take any amount of crap that a customer offers? There are limits.


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## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

One day this thread will die.

And no one will attend its funeral.


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

Preu Pummel said:


> One day this thread will die.
> 
> And no one will attend its funeral.


Right after folks stop kvetching about pleated trousers.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Mitchell said:


> Just a few weeks ago I was voting for the Sartoriani threads as having a remarkable shelf life. This thread has a life of its own.
> 
> Is there a record for the longest thread running around here outside of "What are you wearing today?


You can sort the posts by number of views. This post is the #8 most viewed post on the forum including stickies.


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## Ay329 (Sep 22, 2007)

This thread reminded me I need to go back and see Freddy again so I can order more shirts :icon_smile_wink:


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## Mitchell (Apr 25, 2005)

You did!


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## MrRogers (Dec 10, 2005)

Kav said:


> Aside from 'Hercule Poirot' the only other belgian I've known was my Mallinois. We drove out to a sheepranch now grazed by Phoenix Arizona basin asphalt and she picked us out from the litter by wiggling in excitement, and naming herself Wiggles. I've been watching this 'economy' like an overpatient turkey vulture waiting for something to happen. Well, I'm tired of waiting and I'm going out to kill something. I want some of Freddie's shirts.





Kav said:


> Sits a little to close to Wardrobe Girl on a park bench , hoping she likes Guerlain Imperiale. offers my open bag of kettle popcorn and tries to duplicate Burt Lancaster's smile and comes closer to Marty Feldman's.





Kav said:


> Property WEST of Ventura BLVD has always held to the old adage ' I live on the better side of Ventura BLVD.' There is still an anacronistic law on the books giving sheepherders BLVD right away bringing the flocks down from the foothill grazing near Calabasas, where a hike past ever enroaching gated communities will bring you to the spring source of the L.A. river. The adobe museum next to Sagebrush Cantina was residence to a rather brusque Basque who died and left his common law indian wife to bring the very first palimony suit to L.A. courts. A bit further down I can show you the location of THE LOST VILLAGE OF ENCINO I helped relocate 8 years before an archaeologist with good P.R. announced he had discovered it ( after reading our report squirreled away at UCLA.) Good Press is everything in SOCAL don't you know. It's now merely one of many lost villages, the BLVD almost a main artery feeding the long gone ethnic enclaves we have always claimed. I miss the hungarian Resturant where Bela Lugosi held me singing hungarish lullabies. I always meant to go back and order two servings of goulash in his memory. But one thing has never changed on Ventura, parking. Since the days of horsedrawn frieght wagons it has been a royal PITA parking on the valley side. So I was curious which side Freddy is on. coming down from Ventura County, origon of the BLVDs name, being formerly hte frieght corridor for stage and produce to the L.A. market. Men wore fresh white shirts nicely boiled and starched for that trip.I have no idea what the button placement was however.





Kav said:


> Conversation with a German gunsmith years ago " Helmuth, I want to install this really neat cocking piece peep site on my Banner Mauser 98." Helmuth " Nien!das ist nicht gut!" I learned the already slow locktime of a 98 mauser could actually fail to fire some european primers- and I only used RWS ammo in this rifle.Helmuth said cocking piece peepsites were an englishman invention. Palaver with my saddlemaker " Jack, I want a Californio centerfire rig with butterfly skirts and a nice tall horn for dallying my new Maquey rope." Jack " hey, let me introduce you to Mark one of these days, Great roper Mark, Just don't look at his hand or make a face when you shake it. Man, that was one hell of a wreck, Mark is a Texas hard and fast man and he tried using a Californio reata one day and you know, them centerfire saddles can rock and pull you half out of yer taps if you ain't raised in one. Them docs had a hell of a time reattaching what fingers we were able to pick out of the arena dust what weren't smashed by thet bray-mer bull." My hopefully future conversation with Freddie " I need a white shirt, French cuffs. Heres my Sam Hober ties, I only wear this width so You can match the proper collar spread and I pay with this really old fashioned linen with dead white guys on it. I need the shirts sometime in the next 3- 4 months.


Kav, are you just baked out of your gourd all day or what?

MrR


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## ZegnaGent (Mar 4, 2008)

*Arghh!*

Die thread, damn you! 
Die!! Die!! Die!!

:icon_smile_big:


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## raumil (Jan 10, 2009)

slav2fashn said:


> I don't see why it is offensive to provide specific measurements to a custom tailor.
> 
> In software development we always prefer clear specifications from the customer so the customer always gets what he wants.


You should buy shirts from tailors in Hong Kong or Thailand. I have requested crazy designs for my theater company and they have always delivered. I don't have their contact info with me right now but I will post it later so you can use them.:aportnoy:


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