# Crockett and Jones fittings/widths



## ak3000 (Jun 22, 2008)

I was at the C&J store in Turnbull the other day, and I am between 9-9.5 UK in the shoes I tried on, all of which were 341 lasts, E fitting, I'm pretty sure. So now I want to order from PLAL, but I just want to know: what is the difference in widths for C&J? Are F and G much wider than E, which was all they had in the store? the E seemed to fit ok, but I do have wider feet, so maybe I should go for a wider fit so the sides dont push out as much. Also, is there much difference in the lasts? the Finsbury 341 fit alright, but I really want the Canterbury - 317 last shoe. anyone know detailed info about the fitting sizing for these guys? 

Needless to say, the sales associates at the store are a bunch of stuck up prigs, from whom I had to pull teeth to get any information, so any info from the friendlier group on the boards here would be much appreciated (Hell I would have just paid retail right then and there, as I need some new shoes post haste, had they made any effort whatsoever to find a size/style that fit me properly, but after trying on 1 SINGLE PAIR in a slightly too small size, they guy was disuading me from looking at any others, I finally got him to bring out something bigger sized on the same last just to get my size right, then promptly left).


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

*Compendium of Shoe Fit Discussions*

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?t=61953


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*As you go down the alphabet ....*

the widths get wider: F is wider than E, EE is wider than E etc. The Crockett and Jones handgrades are usually an E width which is equivalent to a US D. In my case I wear a US 9D, so I wear a C&J 8-!/2 E (UK size). But fit will vary according to which last the shoes are made on. The BB Peals and C&J handgrades actually fit me much better than Cole Haan or Johnston and Murphy shoes do. The C&J shoes are more refined and fit a narrow foot
better, which is what I want. Some English shoes, like Churchs or Loakes, are for wider
feet and I cannot wear them.

The upshot of all this is that it might cost you a return to get the right size, but if you change lasts or manufacturers, you'll be starting over as far as sizing goes. That's why BB Peals on sale are a good deal since most of us live whin a few miles of a BB store and we can try them on before buying.

A piece of advice: never let a salesman intimidate you. They are there to serve you! I wouldn't have left the store until I accomplished what I came there for.


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## ak3000 (Jun 22, 2008)

I hear what you are saying, but I wasnt intimidated; rather I was about to start a fight with the guy I was so perturbed. Instead I held my tongue, tried on one more pair, and left before the desire to mouth off became too great. Thanks for the info guys.


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

Sorry to hear bout your retail experience. Staff at T&A/C&J was very friendly to me, and I got to try all the last and size combinations before getting the right fit.

The lasts in question are different, I would suggest going back to the store and getting the confirmation of the fit. If you have wider feet, you may have to go for F fitting - you will not know until you try (probably not G - that is quite wide, you would not feel comfortable at all in E, if you actually needed G fitting).


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## ak3000 (Jun 22, 2008)

thanks hreljan - so is it the case that only wide footed individuals can wear the canterburys, as they are made in a G fitting only (and a 317 last) according to the C&J website? also, since you seem to know, are the E and F very different widths? I can get away with the E, but maybe the F would be better?


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## bigCat (Jun 10, 2005)

ak3000 said:


> thanks hreljan - so is it the case that only wide footed individuals can wear the canterburys, as they are made in a G fitting only (and a 317 last) according to the C&J website? also, since you seem to know, are the E and F very different widths? I can get away with the E, but maybe the F would be better?


I have a wide foot and Pembrokes in G width (same 317 last as Canterbury). They are roomy but not overly so. I can wear some F widths from C&J, but I can not wear regular width shoes (from anybody). A gap of 2 widths is just too big to stretch.

E and F are different widths (that's like asking if 8 and 9 are different lengths). IIRC, for AE it is about 3/16 inch difference in girth at the ball of the foot. But you may be in between sizes and E may be OK with a bit of stretching, or F may just be perfect out of the box (as you say F may be better) - you need to try them on!


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## ak3000 (Jun 22, 2008)

I guess its back to pulling teeth at the Turnbull store - even though when I asked, they said they only had E fittings in stock.


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## ak3000 (Jun 22, 2008)

So G is a rather large width then? why would they make the canterbury in only a large width?


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## arnaud (Apr 10, 2007)

ak3000 said:


> Needless to say, the sales associates at the store are a bunch of stuck up prigs, from whom I had to pull teeth to get any information, so any info from the friendlier group on the boards here would be much appreciated (Hell I would have just paid retail right then and there, as I need some new shoes post haste, had they made any effort whatsoever to find a size/style that fit me properly, but after trying on 1 SINGLE PAIR in a slightly too small size, they guy was disuading me from looking at any others, I finally got him to bring out something bigger sized on the same last just to get my size right, then promptly left).


My experiences at T&A are quite different... I suspect the salesman perceived that you were there just for a try on and therefore had no intention of buying, but, as you indicated, ordering instead from PLAL.

Customers coming in just for a try-on are a dime a dozen these days w/ the internet. Salesmen have developed a keen radar for this.


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## Hector Freemantle (Aug 2, 2008)

arnaud said:


> My experiences at T&A are quite different... I suspect the salesman perceived that you were there just for a try on and therefore had no intention of buying, but, as you indicated, ordering instead from PLAL.
> 
> Customers coming in just for a try-on are a dime a dozen these days w/ the internet. Salesmen have developed a keen radar for this.


It seems to me the salesmen need to develop the skill of providing service and not trying to second guess their customers.


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## ak3000 (Jun 22, 2008)

Well, I admit I was planning on ordering MORE pairs from plal, but as I mentioned, I was also planning on buying one pair then, simply because I NEEDED a pair of shoes quickly. Ok, they might have just been having a bad day, but they were trying to get rid of me, not just not being of service. Living in Manhattan, I have found only T. Pink to have that type of terrible, no interest in helping the customer service consistently. Brooks, J.Press most of the time, R Lauren, Barneys, Bergdorf, and a few others I like (Paul Smith, P. Stuart, Steven Alan), along with some VERY chic places my wife likes generally have salespeople who are much friendlier and helpful - and a number of them have their clothes available on the internet too. Also, my problem was not with the staff at Turnbull - it was with the staff at the C&J store in Turnbull.




Anyone know about why only a G fitting for the canterbury, and its comparability in that model to reg. E fitting?


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## TKDKid (Mar 20, 2004)

ak3000 said:


> the Finsbury 341 fit alright, but I really want the Canterbury - 317 last shoe.





ak3000 said:


> Anyone know about why only a G fitting for the canterbury, and its comparability in that model to reg. E fitting?


The Canterbury used to be available in UK E and F fittings, but this was discontinued when they introduced the Finsbury.


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## ak3000 (Jun 22, 2008)

Thats a bad move - now you can only get dark brown wingtips in a G fitting, the Finsbury color is a bit lighter. Does anyone know if they sell C&J shoes at Barneys? Maybe Ill cross town to the east side tomorrow to try on some, but would love to avoid Turnbull.


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## TKDKid (Mar 20, 2004)

The Finsbury is now available in dark brown - see C&J's latest mail order and retail catalogue.


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