# What do you dress like?



## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

I've asked a similar question elsewhere before, but the notion was put back into my head yesterday: a friend of mine told me that, when I dress casually (shirt, crewneck sweater, jeans or trousers, and leather shoes), I look a bit like a plucky kid in a children's book about to go out and have an adventure. I think that's perfect -- maybe I read _Danny, The Champion of the World_ too many times.

Do you ever have a sort of "mission statement" in mind when you get dressed?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

No. I take stock of what I'm doing that day and dress accordingly. Tie, jacket & tie, sweater, polo, or long sleeve business casual shirt. If jacket & tie, some thought goes into how businessy the day will be. No mission, though.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> No. I take stock of what I'm doing that day and dress accordingly. Tie, jacket & tie, sweater, polo, or long sleeve business casual shirt. If jacket & tie, some thought goes into how businessy the day will be. No mission, though.


Well, of course dressing for what you're doing is paramount -- but there are shadings and variations within that: you could have a very businesslike day and decide to wear a gray flannel pinstripe suit, printed tie, white point collar shirt, and cordovan wingtips, or you could wear a hard finished sharkskin suit, spread collar shirt, Charvet tie, and black captoes on a chiseled last: each is equally appropriate, but they send _very_ different messages.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

I dress to attempt to convince those whom I encounter that I am a reasonable human being.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

I dress just like I have since I started buying my own clothes.

The Brady Bunch stuff my parents bought, I am not responsible for!!


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## Flairball (Dec 9, 2012)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I take stock of what I'm doing that day and dress accordingly.


Pretty much this. Truthfully, most of what I wear I wear out of necessity; if I'm at work I am in something similar to the prescribed uniform, or the kennel I am in jeans, flannel, and a work coat.

I try to accomplish two things when I put on "nice" clothing; be comfortable while convincing people that I am a competent adult. I at least succeed at being comfortable.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

I dress like a young Republican.

edit: I'm informed that I sometimes dress like an "old" Republican.


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## universitystripe (Jul 13, 2013)

A shetland crewneck, ocbd, khakis or wool trousers, and loafers is a pretty good look for my career as a librarian. Sport coats and blazers come out when appropriate. 

Yes, it comes with the baggage of the Ivy League look, but it's better than anything else I have come across for my daily wear.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Well, of course dressing for what you're doing is paramount -- but there are shadings and variations within that: you could have a very businesslike day and decide to wear a gray flannel pinstripe suit, printed tie, white point collar shirt, and cordovan wingtips, or you could wear a hard finished sharkskin suit, spread collar shirt, Charvet tie, and black captoes on a chiseled last: each is equally appropriate, but they send _very_ different messages.


Not really, I don't have that many suits and sport coats. With the (only) suit, it's reserved for meetings like the Regional Chamber Annual Dinner, weddings, funerals, etc. With the sport coat, there are a couple that are more businesslike vs. the brown tweed or the light summer coat.

Believe me, there is no message. Just an interest in looking appropriate.

Many people here are really into clothes and forget that average men just need to look appropriate. I fall somewhere between the guy who wants to wear sports jerseys and sweatshirts everywhere and the guy who would own a hard finished sharkskin suit, spread collar shirt, Charvet tie, etc.

I see no reason to overthink clothing as long as you look basically appropriate. (That's why I'm no fan of sprezzatura at all. While trying to be "non-chalant", so much overthinking goes into most of it that it's more of a cry for attention than anything.)

Also, on this forum, how "trad" is it to overthink clothing?


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## Eric W S (Jun 6, 2012)

The least common denbominator argument always fails. In every aspect. Looking basically appropriate means you'll look pedestrian on your best day. If you are thinking about appropriateness you already are over thinking it.

Hence the brialliance of a wardrobe purposely built to coordinate with itself and to the situation. Add high quality and it will stand the test of time. 

Sharkskin is still around? Thought that mistake died in the eighties. Maybe Radio Shack will arrange a pick up for you.


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## Brio1 (May 13, 2010)

Shaver said:


> I dress to attempt to convince those whom I encounter that I am a reasonable human being.


Do you accomplish this in a toga, sir?

https://www.google.com/search?q=soc...=802#facrc=0;socrates statue&imgdii=_&imgrc=_


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Eric W S said:


> The least common denbominator argument always fails. In every aspect. Looking basically appropriate means you'll look pedestrian on your best day. If you are thinking about appropriateness you already are over thinking it.
> 
> Hence the brialliance of a wardrobe purposely built to coordinate with itself and to the situation. Add high quality and it will stand the test of time.
> 
> Sharkskin is still around? Thought that mistake died in the eighties. Maybe Radio Shack will arrange a pick up for you.


Not fitting in and not being appropriate are far worse than being "dull" in the eyes of clothing aficionados. Fitting in and being appropriate are enough. This is from a person who frequently wears ties and jackets when he does not have to. I'm 57. I'm not sending a message. I'm going to work and about my day. 
I live in a real world. Many come here for basic advice so that they look decent and fit in when they wear a suit or sport coat.

Today I put on khakis, a polo and a crew neck sweater. I fit in. Not fitting in is seldom good. We live in a world where less than 1/000 of 1% of the people post on clothing message boards.

My stuff is nice and coordinates just fine. I spend little time worrying about whether I will impress people on the "what are you wearing" page if I take a picture. I care about looking appropriate.


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## TradThrifter (Oct 22, 2012)

I suppose we all have a certain idea in our heads when we get dressed in the morning for what message we would like to project into the world. My average workday attire is "Yes, it is time to do serious business, but I am wearing khakis and loafers so I am also relaxed and down to earth." My weekend attire says "I am usually all business except for today. You can tell I am not at work because my shirt is untucked."


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Being retired my usual daily wear reflects the yardwork/furniture building/other manual labor that I need to accomplish if I'm staying home. If I'm going out then I attempt to portray the well-dressed (albeit slightly eccentric) gentleman I continually attempt to convince myself I am.


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I dress to attempt to convince those whom I encounter that I am a reasonable human being.


Let us know when you're successful .


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

I try to dress like Youthful Repp-robate.

He's my idol!


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Hitch said:


> Let us know when you're successful .


I am successful. My mask of sanity rarely slips.

BTW I've always meant to ask - what is that avatar of yours? An out-of-focus Jabba the Hut? A pile of mossy compost? Fungus the Bogeyman? A fat green Viking? We deserve to know.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Brio1 said:


> Do you accomplish this in a toga, sir?
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=soc...=802#facrc=0;socrates statue&imgdii=_&imgrc=_


Certainly.

Belushi and I sing along to 'Louie Louie'.



Hit it!


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

forsberg, that's an awfully limited perspective don't you think? Sure, dress conservatively when you need to, but don't be afraid to have a little fun when you can get away with it. Clothes should be. Be adventurous with a collar pin or tie bar. See if you like the way a double breasted waistcoat looks.

I have no real set look. My inspirations run the gamut from Cary Grant to James Bond to (unexpectedly) Neal Caffrey of _White Collar_. The latter, while I don't prefer some of his micro-lapel suits and narrow collar shirts, is pretty well dressed in terms of combining patterns and accessories. He also carries off a stingy brim trilby the best anyone can.



L-feld said:


> I dress like a young Republican.
> 
> edit: I'm informed that I sometimes dress like an "old" Republican.


I've gotten that a bit. I don't get it. Caring about the way you dress somehow makes you homosexual or a Republican to some folks now, as if being either one is necessarily bad.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Some people in the past told me I dress like I'm going to Wall Street, during nice days in the past going to work, I would wear a shirt and my clip on tie and I don't mind creating a good impression pushing carts outside around customers. But during rain or snow I'd just wear my blue jeans so that I won't get my dress pants filthy.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Jovan said:


> forsberg, that's an awfully limited perspective don't you think? Sure, dress conservatively when you need to, but don't be afraid to have a little fun when you can get away with it. Clothes should be. Be adventurous with a collar pin or tie bar. See if you like the way a double breasted waistcoat looks.
> 
> I have no real set look. My inspirations run the gamut from Cary Grant to James Bond to (unexpectedly) Neal Caffrey of _White Collar_. The latter, while I don't prefer some of his micro-lapel suits and narrow collar shirts, is pretty well dressed in terms of combining patterns and accessories. He also carries off a stingy brim trilby the best anyone can.
> 
> I've gotten that a bit. I don't get it. Caring about the way you dress somehow makes you homosexual or a Republican to some folks now, as if being either one is necessarily bad.


I don't have a huge clothes budget; if I go to a chamber meeting in any of the stuff you suggest, I would stand out and to most of the men there, not in a good way, but as someone who is too "fussy."

This from a person wearing a jacket and tie (with a dreaded black shirt) on a day when I don't have to. (I would not wear the black shirt if I had a meeting.) I just like how it looks. I guess I like nice ties and I like sweaters (which in Michigan winters have a utilitarian purpose.)


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

If forced to answer, I would have to go with "stylishly eccentric academic". I don't necessarily see it, but even my academic colleagues say I have got the eccentric part down, which is not always a good thing, even in academia.


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## williamson (Jan 15, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Believe me, there is no message. Just an interest in looking appropriate...Many people here are really into clothes and forget that average men just need to look appropriate...I see no reason to overthink clothing as long as you look basically appropriate. (That's why I'm no fan of sprezzatura at all. While trying to be "non-chalant", so much overthinking goes into most of it that it's more of a cry for attention than anything.)





Jovan said:


> forsberg, that's an awfully limited perspective don't you think? Sure, dress conservatively when you need to, but don't be afraid to have a little fun when you can get away with it. Clothes should be. Be adventurous with a collar pin or tie bar. See if you like the way a double breasted waistcoat looks.


Is this where the question of taste and temperament arises? I had an amiable and interesting discussion in PMs with Topbroker (who I wish would return to these fora) on this, in which we distinguished between the opposing tendencies towards the "subdued" and the "flamboyant". Here forsberg seems to prefer the subdued and Jovan the flamboyant.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Jovan said:


> forsberg, that's an awfully limited perspective don't you think? Sure, dress conservatively when you need to, but don't be afraid to have a little fun when you can get away with it. Clothes should be. Be adventurous with a collar pin or tie bar. See if you like the way a double breasted waistcoat looks.
> 
> I have no real set look. My inspirations run the gamut from Cary Grant to James Bond to (unexpectedly) Neal Caffrey of _White Collar_. The latter, while I don't prefer some of his micro-lapel suits and narrow collar shirts, is pretty well dressed in terms of combining patterns and accessories. He also carries off a stingy brim trilby the best anyone can.
> 
> I've gotten that a bit. I don't get it. Caring about the way you dress somehow makes you homosexual or a Republican to some folks now, as if being either one is necessarily bad.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, I should stress, when I say "old republican," I do not mean:


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## Hitch (Apr 25, 2012)

Shaver said:


> I am successful. My mask of sanity rarely slips.
> 
> BTW I've always meant to ask - what is that avatar of yours? An out-of-focus Jabba the Hut? A pile of mossy compost? Fungus the Bogeyman? A fat green Viking? We deserve to know.


Odd ,one would expect our friends from across the pond to recognize royalty. For those deserving and the others it is of course HRH Plubis with calabash.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

Hitch said:


> Odd ,one would expect our friends from across the pond to recognize royalty. For those deserving and the others it is of course HRH *Plubis with calabash*.


That is of no help.

Googling these words merely leads back to your post.

It is so atypical of you to spout cryptic nonsense. :devil:


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Although, I really don't know why the stereotype isn't "old democrat."


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

williamson said:


> Is this where the question of taste and temperament arises? I had an amiable and interesting discussion in PMs with Topbroker (who I wish would return to these fora) on this, in which we distinguished between the opposing tendencies towards the "subdued" and the "flamboyant". Here forsberg seems to prefer the subdued and Jovan the flamboyant.


Jovan and I have differing roles in our lives and who we deal with. Jovan dresses extremely well in his world and knows how to be appropriate. I dress for mine. Today it happens to include one of my favorite ties for no particular reason. I still don't think I'm making a statement beyond "I felt like wearing a tie; I'm 57, so I can."


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> "I felt like wearing a tie; I'm 57, so I can."


Speaking from experience, give it another decade and it becomes, "While I still can!"


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

A cross between Spencer Tracy in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" and Leo McKern as Horace Rumpole


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

I dress like an unabashed slob. At least 6 days a week you can find me in a PRL t-shirt with PRL cargo shorts and Birkenstocks. I have closets full of RLPL, Kiton, Isaia, Zegna, Bill's, Harris Tweed, Burberry, etc.etc. In this uppity neighborhood that I live in, it is my own version of GTH.


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## rowanlane (Nov 12, 2013)

Shaver said:


> That is of no help.
> 
> Googling these words merely leads back to your post.
> 
> It is so atypical of you to spout cryptic nonsense. :devil:


I believe his icon depicts King Plubis, from the adult muppet sketches that were put on SNL but never quite caught on.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

rowanlane said:


> I believe his icon depicts King Plubis, from the adult muppet sketches that were put on SNL but never quite caught on.


Bless you rowanlane, how very considerate of you to provide enlightenment. Thank you.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

williamson said:


> Is this where the question of taste and temperament arises? I had an amiable and interesting discussion in PMs with Topbroker (who I wish would return to these fora) on this, in which we distinguished between the opposing tendencies towards the "subdued" and the "flamboyant". Here forsberg seems to prefer the subdued and Jovan the flamboyant.


Not necessarily. I just mean things like a pocket square, collar pin, tie bar, club collar shirt, etc. Have a little fun with dressing! Kind of like upr_crust. Otherwise, my wardrobe is usually quite subdued (though I do wish to own single breasted peak lapel and double breasted suits). Little touches like that can help you stand out, in my opinion, in a good way. I take more care in the way I wish to come off in interviews. With apologies to Forsberg, someone who uses those small ways to look a bit more unique isn't "fussy" for God's sake. Fussiness is adjusting your shirt collar every minute or going to the bathroom every five minutes to fix your hair. At his age I'm going to care even less a lick what people think.



drlivingston said:


> I dress like an unabashed slob. At least 6 days a week you can find me in a PRL t-shirt with PRL cargo shorts and Birkenstocks. I have closets full of RLPL, Kiton, Isaia, Zegna, Bill's, Harris Tweed, Burberry, etc.etc. In this uppity neighborhood that I live in, it is my own version of GTH.


That actually sounds like the normal mode of dress for an "uppity" neighbourhood. At least in my experience.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

drlivingston said:


> I dress like an unabashed slob. At least 6 days a week you can find me in a PRL t-shirt with PRL cargo shorts and Birkenstocks. I have closets full of RLPL, Kiton, Isaia, Zegna, Bill's, Harris Tweed, Burberry, etc.etc. In this uppity neighborhood that I live in, it is my own version of GTH.


I wear jeans, a t-shirt (or button up flannel LS shirt during the winter months), and Adidas tennis shoes 7 days a week. I'm mega slob compared to you  ironic how I like nice clothes/shoes/accessories but I rarely need to dress up.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Fussiness is in the eye of the beholder. Success in almost any endeavor has a lot to do with the eyes of the beholder, not your own. 

For me, personally, I don't like tie clips, etc. and the half Windsor tie knots I like won't work well with a collar pin. I usually wear a pocket square although I'm getting less frequent about that.

If I'm in a business situation, I prefer not to call attention to my attire; I want to fit in, socialize, or do what I'm there to do.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Shaver said:


> Bless you rowanlane, how very considerate of you to provide enlightenment. Thank you.


HA! That's funny.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> If I'm in a business situation, I prefer not to call attention to my attire; I want to fit in, socialize, or do what I'm there to do.


It is always pleasing when the practices of a sensible, rational man who lives in the real world of a market economy are exactly similar to my own.


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## Tilton (Nov 27, 2011)

drlivingston said:


> I dress like an unabashed slob. At least 6 days a week you can find me in a PRL t-shirt with PRL cargo shorts and Birkenstocks. I have closets full of RLPL, Kiton, Isaia, Zegna, Bill's, Harris Tweed, Burberry, etc.etc. In this uppity neighborhood that I live in, it is my own version of GTH.


You've got a good set up going on, friend. I tell Mrs. Tilton that once residency is done, I'm becoming a mechanic (or furniture maker or fishing guide, etc.) and never sitting at a desk behind triple monitors contemplating whether homelessness is really all that bad compared the banal office day-to-day again - gender roles are for schmucks.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Fussiness is in the eye of the beholder. Success in almost any endeavor has a lot to do with the eyes of the beholder, not your own.
> 
> For me, personally, I don't like tie clips, etc. and the half Windsor tie knots I like won't work well with a collar pin. I usually wear a pocket square although I'm getting less frequent about that.
> 
> If I'm in a business situation, I prefer not to call attention to my attire; I want to fit in, socialize, or do what I'm there to do.


Like I said, within reason. Outside of business there's no reason you can't dress for yourself.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Outside of business, I'm only dressed up if I have not gotten home from work yet (frequently). Pocket squares are as far as I'm going to go - - when I go there. I actually how suits and sport coats with ties look, especially with a nice, well-tied tie. That can be out there some of the places I go.

On stage, I'll occasionally do neckerchiefs and things like that. A lot depends on the venue.


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Patrick06790 said:


> A cross between Spencer Tracy in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" and Leo McKern as Horace Rumpole


I watched 'Bad Day at Black Rock' yesterday. The Spencer Tracy look definitely applies to you - with two good arms( I am not sure about your karate and judo skills).

Leo McKern I cannot see at all.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Kingstonian said:


> I watched 'Bad Day at Black Rock' yesterday. The Spencer Tracy look definitely applies to you - with two good arms( I am not sure about your karate and judo skills).
> 
> Leo McKern I cannot see at all.


Rumpole in spirit - cigar ash, purple nose, general air.

I need to brush up on my martial arts though


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## 3piece (Jan 22, 2014)

Self expression (read: I do what I want to do). I love playing pleasant music, I spend time taking good photos, and I love pocket squares that's why I wear it everyday (including every casual friday). I just enjoy playing with layers and color, and putting and wearing a good looking ensemble.

I stand out, but I don't think it has had any negative impact. I don't care if I get kicked out of my social circle because of what I wear nowadays; I'll make new friends.

At work, I used to be the worst dressed; now I'm the best dressed (ok, an exaggeration, but pretty close). Isn't that an improvement?

P.S. My daily uniform is wool dress pants, dress shoes, cotton dress shirt, and a sport coat. To work, or to a movie theater.


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## Bohan (Sep 16, 2013)

Practical but I err towards blending and being appropriate.


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## Reuben (Aug 28, 2013)

According to a friend I ran into after church, "like I stepped out of a Brooks Brothers catalogue from the 60's," according to one of my old S&C coaches I ran into walking back from the bakery, "like one of those '60's ivy students," and according to a former teammate, "like a Southern country doctor skipping work one afternoon to walk his land, all you need is a shotgun and a cocker spaniel." I'll take it.


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## 3piece (Jan 22, 2014)

"GQ guy"--that's what coworkers call me as. Not because I wear a slim-fit outfit (I don't), but probably because that's only place they know where they see people wear suit and whatnot.


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## godan (Feb 10, 2010)

Bohan said:


> Practical but I err towards blending and being appropriate.


Yes, indeed. I first encountered the phrase, "looking good while fitting in, here, but it has been my lifelong practice. I wear suits where others will be wearing them and mountain boots and a parka in town on snowy days. My clothes are of good quality and they fit. My choices of patterns and color combinations do not, to say the least, attract attention. To each his own, but for me quietness in appearance is, like quietness in social settings, a part of good manners.


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## Monocle (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm trying to lose 25lbs, so I wear the things in my current wardrobe that do not make me "feel" like I have not yet lost those 25lbs. The 3/4's of my closet that are 1-2 sizes smaller than my current size, will just have to wait a couple of months, or four.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

3piece said:


> "GQ guy"--that's what coworkers call me as. Not because I wear a slim-fit outfit (I don't), but probably because that's only place they know where they see people wear suit and whatnot.


That's quite complimentary.


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## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

Monocle said:


> I'm trying to lose 25lbs, so I wear the things in my current wardrobe that do not make me "feel" like I have not yet lost those 25lbs. The 3/4's of my closet that are 1-2 sizes smaller than my current size, will just have to wait a couple of months, or four.


Me too, but at age 52, the weight loss is not coming easy.


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## VaBeach (Oct 14, 2013)

Patrick06790 said:


> Me too, but at age 52, the weight loss is not coming easy.


I feel your pain.....


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## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

Patrick06790 said:


> Me too, but at age 52, the weight loss is not coming easy.


The 5 2 diet seems to work for a lot of people and it is relatively normal.

Fast days are still 500 calories.


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## LordSmoke (Dec 25, 2012)

Kingstonian said:


> The 5 2 diet seems to work for a lot of people and it is relatively normal.
> 
> Fast days are still 500 calories.


This has morphed into a diet thread? I'll play. 56yo. Started worrying about weight about 7 years ago. 30 minutes on a treadmill 3 times a week took off a big chunk. Not eating before 5pm during the week took off another. No sweets or desserts and <1000 calories during the week got me to my goal, 220 (I'm 6'4"). Weekends - anything goes. Lost 50lbs and weigh less than I did in high school.

I was going to write my own diet book and get rich, but could never figure a way to stretch "Eat less. Do more." into 300 pages. Then, a friend told me all anyone needs to know about nutrition, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." That avenue to financial independence was closed. So now, 50lbs lighter, I still have to work.


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## Alleline (Nov 16, 2013)

I agree with forsberg and godan that fitting in is a goal. I'm a hospital executive/attorney, and most work days I wear a navy or charcoal suit with a white or blue shirt and a tie grounded on a primary color. The patterns and stripes I wear are subtle except on the ties, where I stick to standard stripes or geometrical designs. My participation in this forum has recently convinced me to change back from the Rockport Walkovers I have worn since I got into hospital work, and back to the dress shoes of my younger years (which I still think of as "shiny black FBI shoes"). Occasionally, since this is New Mexico, I wear black dress boots.

At home and on weekends I generally wear the uniform of Gen X - jeans or khaki chinos, OCBD or polo shirts. I have been wearing more sweaters this winter, but not so much of the GTH and more of the "get off my lawn" variety. Pullovers in natural wool, dark cardigans, mixed between cable knit and smooth.

People seldom look at a middle-aged man very closely, in my experience. This is not a bad thing. As a youth I was very self-conscious, and the world's benign neglect now is usually soothing to me. Most days, I have no desire to invite scrutiny by sprouting pocket squares and tie pins. 

There are, however, some leisure events for which I enjoy spending a little time dressing. I really had fun at the Santa Fe opera this summer, which I attended in a traditional seersucker suit and white shirt, but with a rich purple tie. My lovely daughter, in a gold summer dress, hung on my arm and chattered while we wandered around as the sun set. I noticed a number of people looking at us, and we really did coordinate quite well. With my purple tie (and doting demeanor), I was a nice accessory to the beautiful girl in gold. 

And that's how I like it. I am not Lord Hamlet nor was meant to be. As I've said before, no disrespect to those who love center stage and like their seersucker with embroidered lobsters. I can appreciate the well-done bid for attention. It's just not my style.


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