# 21 and the Decline of Modern Civilization



## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

The 21 Club in New York has decided that it is no longer required for men to wear ties at dinner. Jackets are still required.

I was there last week at dinnertime - we had reservations somewhere else but stopped in for a drink. We were wearing suits, as were most of the men. I saw one person standing near the bar in a blazer with no tie.

On the way out, there were two neat but casually dressed gentleman causing a stink because they were being refused service.

One of them quoted Dr. King's line about being judged by the "content of their character." Keep in mind that the two potential guests, the maitre d', and the manager were all white men.

Any thoughts?


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

I've dined and had a tipple or two at 21 a few times and loved the fact that men still have to (or had to, in this case) wear jackets and ties. Frankly, I think it's a total cop-out on the restaurant's part. They must be p*ssed off that GWB never dined there as POTUS...thus breaking a long tradition...or something. 

Regarding the two gentlemen who were denied service: white men shouldn't be quoting MLK Jr. to get a table at a restaurant.


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## CPVS (Jul 17, 2005)

TMMKC said:


> I've dined and had a tipple or two at 21 a few times and loved the fact that men still have to (or had to, in this case) wear jackets and ties. Frankly, I think it's a total cop-out on the restaurant's part. They must be p*ssed off that GWB never dined there as POTUS...thus breaking a long tradition...or something.
> 
> Regarding the two gentlemen who were denied service: white men shouldn't be quoting MLK Jr. to get a table at a restaurant.


Yes, I think that's the definition of classless. I've never actually made it to 21 yet, but I'm sorry to hear this. I simply don't see why people don't understand the concept of a dress code.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

CPVS said:


> Yes, I think that's the definition of classless. I've never actually made it to 21 yet, but I'm sorry to hear this. I simply don't see why people don't understand the concept of a dress code.


I was there twice last week - once for lunch, once for drinks. They certainly didn't seem to be hurting for business.

Of course, when I go there in the future, I'll be wearing a coat and tie. Just because one _can_ doesn't mean one _should._


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't see why it was a big deal for them to go home and get a jacket... provided they owned any. (That's a scary thought.)

I too would wear a coat and tie. I already do at nice restaurants where there _isn't_ a dress code!


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## Trad Dad (Jan 2, 2009)

It sounds to me that they were being judged by the content of their character.


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

Miket61 said:


> The 21 Club in New York has decided that it is no longer required for men to wear ties at dinner. Jackets are still required.
> 
> I was there last week at dinnertime - we had reservations somewhere else but stopped in for a drink. We were wearing suits, as were most of the men. I saw one person standing near the bar in a blazer with no tie.
> 
> ...


Did the maitre d inform them that King came a family in which would have known to wear a tie at that type of establishment? King lived in Hartford for a bit and was known to wear suit and ties to BBQ shacks.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

jpeirpont said:


> Did the maitre d inform them that King came a family in which would have known to wear a tie at that type of establishment? King lived in Hartford for a bit and was known to wear suit and ties to BBQ shacks.


Nice! I'm not sure I'd be brave enough (I'd be afraid of grease getting on my nice clothes) but kudos to him for doing it.

Not only did he help bring change, he was smartly dressed. I've been a fan of his three button suits, light shirts, and dark ties since I was a tot.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Jovan said:


> I don't see why it was a big deal for them to go home and get a jacket... provided they owned any. (That's a scary thought.)


My guess is that they were visiting and hadn't packed any.


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

jpeirpont said:


> Did the maitre d inform them that King came a family in which would have known to wear a tie at that type of establishment? King lived in Hartford for a bit and was known to wear suit and ties to BBQ shacks.


I actually made that comment to the friend I was with - "Dr. King would have worn a tie!"

He appreciated the value of dressing formally to show one's respect for others. I find it appalling when people in baggy hip-hop clothes try to claim his legacy because they perceive discrimination. Dress like him, I'll treat you like him.


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## Penang Lawyer (May 27, 2008)

La Cote Basque (NYC) closed its door because they could not inforce a dress code.


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## Fashion Frank (Jul 14, 2012)

Hello everyone .
It seems that today on this forum, just about every post I run into seems to be touching on this whole theme of "standards being dropped " and no sense of "class ' anymore in regards to dress ,manners and the like .

I must admit that I long for the day when this country and its people get back to some sense "class " and I mean this not just in regards to clothing but in so many other areas , such as music ,style ,manners and politeness etc.etc.etc. 

I am personally so sick of hearing C"rap" music ,seeing people with their pants down around their a** , women out and about in sweat pants and their hair up in ponytail with no regard how they look.

What the hell has happened to this country in less than two generations ,that's not really a long time in the big scheme of things, say at best 40 to 50 years, and now we have become a nation of slobs , overweight ,poorly dressed ,rude in how we conduct our self's ,even less sense of taste and or decorum than our parents and grandparents and from the look of things it's not getting any better but in fact worse. 

I must have been born in the wrong time period ,because quite truthfully I hate just about everything that is "current" or "trendy" from the slim new suit look to even t.v. , it sucks now with all of the voyeuristic type shows and singing contest shows, I guess I must be too old now ,but shows like "sing along with Mitch" and all of the great variety shows that were on when I was a kid ,today's shows don't hold a candle to those days ,remember the Jackie Gellison show ?

I must apolpgize for this rant but this topic in general gets me going ! 

All the Best , Fashion Frank


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Miket61 said:


> I actually made that comment to the friend I was with - "Dr. King would have worn a tie!"


Classic!!


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Yes , there's seem to be a lot of these topics around lately. 



You're all free to dress the way you want. Why preoccupy yourselves with what others wear? Especially if they are younger?


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## Bjorn (May 2, 2010)

Nice resurrect of an ancient post as well


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## Miket61 (Mar 1, 2008)

Fashion Frank said:


> Hello everyone .
> It seems that today on this forum, just about every post I run into seems to be touching on this whole theme of "standards being dropped " and no sense of "class ' anymore in regards to dress ,manners and the like .


My guess is that you're looking at the recommended posts at the bottom of a thread, which will lead you further and further down the rabbit hole.
"Have some more class," the March Hare said to Alice, very earnestly.
"I've had none," Alice replied in an offended tone: "so I can't have more."
"You mean you can't have _less,"_ said the Hatter: "it's very easy to have _more_ than nothing."


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## VPCEH91 (Jul 7, 2018)

If you ask me- if you can pay the bill you should be able to wear just about whatever you please....


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