# Preferred collar style for bow ties



## deliberate1 (May 12, 2008)

I would not presume to imply that there is a "proper" collar type for a bow tie. But surely there must be preferences, and perhaps even a consensus. Your thoughts?
David


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

I prefer buttown-down.


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## Jake_Gittes (Jun 26, 2012)

Hello,

I wear bow ties regularly. I think they do not go well with neither too spread/cutaway nor too close together spear point collars. I do not like them with button down collars.

Also, they must harmonize in dimensions with shirt collars; a skinny bow tie will not look good with a large collar, nor will a fat bow tie look good with a small collar. This applies to jacket lapels, too, BTW.

Regards!


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

I wear a bow tie daily... With a standard sized bow tie, I find it looks best with a forward point collar


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

Never with a button down, unless it is a hidden button (sometimes called a button-under).


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

BluePincord said:


> Never with a button down, unless it is a hidden button (sometimes called a button-under).


I always wear mine with a buttondown (except for the occasional club collar or with a point collar for a black tie rig).


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> I always wear mine with a buttondown (except for the occasional club collar or with a point collar for a black tie rig).


To each his own, but this look has always come across as a solecism to me. The buttons are too close to the edges of the tie, so they look too now-you-see-em, now-you-don't. I know the button down and bow tie look flies in the Northeast, but I'm afraid it comes off as an affectation elsewhere.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

BluePincord said:


> To each his own, but this look has always come across as a solecism to me. The buttons are too close to the edges of the tie, so they look too now-you-see-em, now-you-don't.


Not sure why this is a bad thing.



BluePincord said:


> I know the button down and bow tie look flies in the Northeast, but I'm afraid it comes off as an affectation elsewhere.


It may be most prevalent in the Northeast and perfectly acceptable along the entire East Coast and much of the South East, but I wouldn't think most people would consider it an affectation, if they even notice at all. Your calling it a solecism is appropriate in the sense that it might not conform to classic Anglo rules of dress, but it has certainly taken hold as a classically American means of sartorial expression.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

BluePincord said:


> To each his own, but this look has always come across as a solecism to me. The buttons are too close to the edges of the tie, so they look too now-you-see-em, now-you-don't. I know the button down and bow tie look flies in the Northeast, but I'm afraid it comes off as an affectation elsewhere.


I'm with hardline on this one. I'm in the Southeast, and down here I consider button down to be the default shirt pairing for a bow tie (except for black tie). I don't see the BD w/bow tie "look" as any more of an affectation than the bow tie itself.


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## Buffalo (Nov 19, 2003)

I'm not a fan of bow ties but for those that are, it seems to look better with a button down shirt. I was watching Newsroom, the new show on HBO last night, and Sam Waterston favors bow ties with button down shirts. He seems to carry that off well without looking affected.


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> Not sure why this is a bad thing.
> 
> It may be most prevalent in the Northeast and perfectly acceptable along the entire East Coast and much of the South East, but I wouldn't think most people would consider it an affectation, if they even notice at all. Your calling it a solecism is appropriate in the sense that it might not conform to classic Anglo rules of dress, but it has certainly taken hold as a classically American means of sartorial expression.


True story:

Years ago I was in a clothing store where I overheard a clerk talking to a bow-tie newbie about what kind of shirt to wear with a bow. He told him 'always a button down.' I walked over to my clerk and told him in private what bad advice I thought that was. To which my clerk replied, "I agree, but you see those brown shoes of his with his charcoal suit? He's from Philadelphia--they do that sort of thing."

And I would strongly disagree with your statement that it has taken hold as a classically American anything. Outside of the preppy look in the northeast, it is considered a clumsy mismatch.

p.s. I wear bows roughly five or six times a month.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

BluePincord said:


> And I would strongly disagree with your statement that it has taken hold as a classically American anything. Outside of the preppy look in the northeast, it is considered a clumsy mismatch.
> 
> p.s. I wear bows roughly five or six times a month.


That's a rather vehement stance. I won't deny that regional influence plays a large part, but calling something as widespread as "a bow and a button down" _clumsy_ is a bit harsh. I think I already know the answer, but how do you feel about OCBDs and/or loafers with suits?


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

Other than exaggerated collar styles, such as cut-aways or very long spear points, I think bow ties work pretty well with most collar types... just leave the collar stays out of the spread collars.

For those who seek precedent, Justice John Paul Stevens provides support for the wearing of bow ties with BD collars, Le Corbusier seems to have favored point collars, and the greatest (IMO) of all the bow-tie wearers, Winston Churchill, began his adult life wearing them under wing collars, then moved to moderate spreads. 

I think this is one area that should not be overthought. The bow tie risks fussiness on its own, and an over-studied fixation on the collar (which will mostly be obscured by the knot) only heightens the peril.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

BluePincord said:


> but you see those brown shoes of his with his charcoal suit? He's from Philadelphia--they do that sort of thing


Why, yes, yes we do. Thank you for the compliment. You should try it sometime.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

BluePincord said:


> Outside of the preppy look in the northeast, it is considered a clumsy mismatch.


That's a pretty matter of fact statement...and also incorrect, I believe. As I stated earlier, here in the Southeast BD is the default pairing w/bow ties.


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

BluePincord said:


> but you see those brown shoes of his with his charcoal suit? He's from Philadelphia--they do that sort of thing."





TheGreatTwizz said:


> Why, yes, yes we do. Thank you for the compliment. You should try it sometime.


Not even at gunpoint.


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

FLCracka said:


> As I stated earlier, here in the Southeast BD is the default pairing w/bow ties.


I've lived most of my life in the South, and I return to visit often. I beg to differ. I cannot remember once having seen the combination.


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> I think I already know the answer, but how do you feel about OCBDs and/or loafers with suits?


Loafers with more casual suits (linen, cotton, particularly seersucker) are fine, even preferable. Loafers with traditional woolen business suits are usually not to my taste, although I have seen exceptions where this works. Button downs with suits look great, and I wear them continually. I'm not a huge fan of heavyweight oxford cloth as a dress shirt with woolen suits, although admittedly this is no big deal.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

BluePincord said:


> I've lived most of my life in the South, and I return to visit often. I beg to differ. I cannot remember once having seen the combination.


Seriously? I'm no great fan of BD's (I haven't worn a BD with a tie in several years), but one of my law partners was in my office this morning wearing a bow and BD combination. He's about as southern as you can get, and wears bow ties exclusively; make of that what you will.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

I'd like to suggest we put this to bed; there are obviously differing opinions, including some very strong ones held by one of our most recent additions to the community.

Many of us find BD/Bowtie proper, brown shoes with a charcoal suit alright (and even preferable in some cases), and believe loafers with a suit to be a faux pas. Let's move on and not turn into a flame war.

BluePincord: If I may offer a word of advice; keep the absolutes around here to a minimum. When it comes to style, and the 'rules', very few things are set in stone like 'cover your waist in black tie'; much is left to interpretation and the personal preferences of one over another. We don't impose our will on others here, we simply express opinions and discuss. As to the topic at hand: You will find MANY true Southern Gentlemen here, from all walks of life, and the consensus among them will be that an BD and bowtie are proper. As for me (a yankee), I find an BD and bowtie to be a fine look, but don't own or wear BDs, thus I wear mine with a mid-spread collar. As for 'not even at gunpoint'; well, friend, I'm sure we both know such hyperbole to be untrue, but your *personal preference* as to the color of shoes you wear with a charcoal suit is duly noted.


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

^Well said.


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## jwlester (Oct 20, 2009)

BluePincord said:


> I've lived most of my life in the South, and I return to visit often. I beg to differ. I cannot remember once having seen the combination.


I dare say there are even variations among the different 'sub-regions' of the south, but to say you have never seen it done surprises me. I'm born and bred a Virginian, have spent most of my life in VA and NC, and always wear a bow tie with OCBD, as do most people I see. That said, we tend to wear bows in more casual settings, that suit the OCBD/blazer combo. I don't typically wear a bow with a suit, which would lend itself to the slight formality of a point collar.

I think, for me at least, it breaks down the same way in which it would with a regular tie. In more casual situations, I'm more likely to see the button down (and blazer), but more likely to see a point collar with a more formal suit.

As with most things, blanket statements are reckless.


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## jwlester (Oct 20, 2009)

Well put. Had I been able to read it while writing, I would have forgone my post. 

Cheers.


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## 12345Michael54321 (Mar 6, 2008)

BluePincord said:


> I know the button down and bow tie look flies in the Northeast, but I'm afraid it comes off as an affectation elsewhere.


Wearing a bow tie, regardless of shirt collar style, will be seen as an affectation by many people. For that matter, wearing any sort of necktie strikes a sizable percentage of people as affected, unless one has some special reason for needing to get "all dressed up."

Fortunately, my "ignoring what they think" skills are solid. I mean, they're not at the level demonstrated by my friend's cat, but by human standards I'm doing okay.
-- 
Michael


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## Tippo (Jul 1, 2012)

avoid bowties.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

Tippo said:


> avoid bowties.


avoid padding your post count by posting two and three word opinions to every single active thread


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> I'd like to suggest we put this to bed; there are obviously differing opinions, including some very strong ones held by one of our most recent additions to the community.
> 
> Many of us find BD/Bowtie proper, brown shoes with a charcoal suit alright (and even preferable in some cases), and believe loafers with a suit to be a faux pas. Let's move on and not turn into a flame war.
> 
> BluePincord: If I may offer a word of advice; keep the absolutes around here to a minimum. When it comes to style, and the 'rules', very few things are set in stone like 'cover your waist in black tie'; much is left to interpretation and the personal preferences of one over another. We don't impose our will on others here, we simply express opinions and discuss. As to the topic at hand: You will find MANY true Southern Gentlemen here, from all walks of life, and the consensus among them will be that an BD and bowtie are proper. As for me (a yankee), I find an BD and bowtie to be a fine look, but don't own or wear BDs, thus I wear mine with a mid-spread collar. As for 'not even at gunpoint'; well, friend, I'm sure we both know such hyperbole to be untrue, but your *personal preference* as to the color of shoes you wear with a charcoal suit is duly noted.


Due respect. You make some good points, but rest assured I'll not participate in a flame war.

However, I'd like to discuss your take on rules vs. preferences, and the part our written opinions play in both.

In being careful not to offend, we must always guard against watery discourse. There are ways to say something and ways not to, but you'll note I have nowhere said "People who wear BTs and BDs together are likely child molesters."

You see, there are certain things I would never wear based on personal preference&#8230;tassled loafers, double-breasted suits, ticket pockets, and knit ties come instantly to mind. They may be fine for others, but I don't care to wear them myself. But there are other things I think are simply wrong because they look bad. Brown shoes with charcoal suits, black shoes with khaki or tan trousers, perma-press poplin suits, and black dress shirts. (The latter is worn by no less than Leonard Slatkin, the esteemed music director of the Detroit Symphony, a man whose musical taste is above reproach, but whom I would as soon see mount the podium in jean shorts.)

The difference here is that we should not be afraid to say when we find something ugly. I know for a fact that there are members who find blue and white seersucker suits vulgar, and I know just as well there are co-workers who whisper 'jackass' in the ears of others when I walk by in mine. But I'll never give them up no matter the opinion of others, and I can make that choice fully aware of their opinions. There is no emperor's-new-clothes issue here--I have asked or listened to the opinions of others, and am free to ignore them. I make my clothing choice knowing that some people hate it, and may think poorly of my judgment as a result.

So are BTs and BDs worn together simply not to my taste, or ugly? I find them ugly, even affected, and have said as much. I find the peekaboo played by the collar buttons to be busy and annoying. The same can be said for overly long collar points&#8230;they stick out and compete with the tie. So am I alone in my opinion? As evidenced by others here, I am most certainly not.

I have stated my opinion strongly, and I believe fairly. I have attacked no one, although I have called their attention to what many others see in their choices. They are then free to ignore. Or call me a jackass. But they have asked an opinion, and they are now aware that some are indifferent, some prefer one to the other, and yet others (other?) finds one unacceptable.

Bottom line: if something is not to your liking, AND SOMEONE HAS ASKED YOUR OPINION, say so. If, however, you find it ugly, say also as much.


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## hardline_42 (Jan 20, 2010)

^^ BC, it's one thing to say you don't think something looks good. It's quite another to declare it a clumsy, mis-matched affectation and insist that it is regarded as such by "everyone else." Judging by your explanation, I assume that you mean to say that you find the BT+BD look ugly. That's perfectly fine by me.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

BluePincord, I don't think anyone is taking issue with your own dislike for the bow-and-BD combination. _De gustibus non est disputandum_, and all that.

Where things get trickier, though is when personal preferences are presented as being some sort of convention or rule. When you said, "I would strongly disagree with your statement that it has taken hold as a classically American anything. Outside of the preppy look in the northeast, it is considered a clumsy mismatch," you put the disapproval of the bow-and-BD above the mere whims of BluePincord - you made an assertion that it is "not the done thing." That's all well and good if it's accurate. But, in this case, it just isn't. 



> Bottom line: if something is not to your liking, AND SOMEONE HAS ASKED YOUR OPINION, say so. If, however, you find it ugly, say also as much.


I agree with this wholeheartedly. There are a great many things that are entirely within the rules that I don't like or wear. I don't much like loafers (under a suit or not). I don't like point/straight collars unless pinned. I don't like flat-fronted pants. I don't like red ties with white shirts. Those are a small sample of my numerous idiosyncratic preferences. I'm happy to state them, and can even give strong arguments in favor of many of them. But I don't contend that any of them have the force of tradition, nor of broader societal consensus.

I find that maintaining a distinction between personal taste and real rules and conventions greatly increases the quality of discourse. Not only does it avoid a more voluble member misleading others into believing that various things are rules (ask around, I *HATE* it when that happens), it also takes some of the heat out of disagreements. If you have one preference, and I say I have another, how upset can you really get? I'm just some jackass on the internet. It's only when I start to tell you that society will scorn you, or that you are violating an objective truth, that you might begin to feel defensive.


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> ^^ BC, it's one thing to say you don't think something looks good. It's quite another to declare it a clumsy, mis-matched affectation and insist that it is regarded as such by "everyone else." Judging by your explanation, I assume that you mean to say that you find the BT+BD look ugly. That's perfectly fine by me.





CuffDaddy said:


> Where things get trickier, though is when personal preferences are presented as being some sort of convention or rule. When you said, "I would strongly disagree with your statement that it has taken hold as a classically American anything. Outside of the preppy look in the northeast, it is considered a clumsy mismatch," you put the disapproval of the bow-and-BD above the mere whims of BluePincord - you made an assertion that it is "not the done thing." That's all well and good if it's accurate. But, in this case, it just isn't.


I understand the distinction you both are making, but I'm choosing to stick by my original statement, with a modification for casual/professional setting:

A bow tie, worn with a jacket in a professional setting, should not be worn with a button down, as it comes across as a mismatched affectation. And I believe this is widely accepted.


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## TheGreatTwizz (Oct 27, 2010)

BluePincord said:


> *as it comes across as a mismatched affectation. And I believe this is widely accepted.*


This is to which I, CuffDaddy, et.al. are referring; to the majority of AAAC, it is not a mismatched affectation, nor is it widely accepted. The same could be said of brown shoes with a charcoal suit, but alas, that is a topic for another time (it is 'widely accepted' that grey and brown are the new black and white).


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

TheGreatTwizz said:


> ... to the majority of AAAC...


So for my part, it is unacceptable to speak for others, but for your part, this would be acceptable?


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

BluePincord said:


> A bow tie, worn with a jacket in a professional setting, should not be worn with a button down, as it comes across as a mismatched affectation. And I believe this is widely accepted.


OK. That's an empirical statement. And one that the evidence suggests is wrong.

Here's Justice Stevens wearing a bow-and-BD ("BaBD" hereafter):










Does that look like a man who's prone to "affectation"?

In case you think that was just a day when his other shirts were dirty:










In case you're a conservative, here's George Will, one of the foremost exponents of bow ties:








BaBD all the way for him. Maybe an affectation, but no more so than the rest of his shtick, and not mismatched, anyway.

Nobody knows more about BD's than Brooks Brothers (having practically invented the darn things), and here's their view on the matter of the BaBD:

https://blog.brooksbrothers.com/ask/bow-knows/ (Spoiler: they say it's OK, and illustrate it thusly:

Their competitor, Paul Stuart, is in accord. While their catalogs are no longer the authoritative source of style they once were, I think they still have some cred', and they feature a bow tie with a buttondown shirt on page 4 of their current catalog (https://www.paulstuart.com/Catalog_paulstuart.cfm?headermenuid=4 if you're interested).

For someone who's authority is waxing, not waning, we can turn to Will of ASW, who says: " The look of a bow tie works best with less visible shirt, so choose double breasted jackets, vested suits, or three button jackets that roll to the top button, buttoned or not.... You can be more flexible with your choice of collars as only the cutaway and the tab collar are inappropriate. " ​https://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2008/08/reader-questions.html

I would conjecture (though I cannot prove) that, if one excludes evening wear, it is more common to see a bow tie in America paired with a BD than with any other collar style; this is probably true even if you aggregate _all_ collar styles together. Whatever the aesthetic merits of the combination, I don't think it can accurately be said that there is a "widely accepted" sentiment against it.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

BluePincord said:


> So for my part, it is unacceptable to speak for others, but for your part, this would be acceptable?


In fairness to TGW, he's not purporting to speak on behalf of all society, but rather the discrete segment that frequents AAAC. He's around enough to have a "sense of the room."


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

CuffDaddy said:


> OK. That's an empirical statement. And one that the evidence suggests is wrong.
> 
> Here's Justice Stevens wearing a bow-and-BD ("BaBD" hereafter):
> 
> ...


Yes. Yes it does. It absolutely does in every way, shape, and form. The picture illustrates my point precisely--he could not look more stupid in that picture if he tried.

And as an aside, you should probably refrain from supporting your position with pictures of a man wearing glasses like that. :smile:



CuffDaddy said:


> In case you're a conservative, here's George Will, one of the foremost exponents of bow ties:


I will certainly give you points for Mr. Will's picture. (Although he did go to Princeton...) :smile:



CuffDaddy said:


> Nobody knows more about BD's than Brooks Brothers (having practically invented the darn things), and here's their view on the matter of the BaBD:
> 
> https://blog.brooksbrothers.com/ask/bow-knows/ (Spoiler: they say it's OK, and illustrate it thusly:


There are few more companies that cater to the NE establishment more so than Brooks Brothers, and I doubt they would take the risk of offending so many of their clientele by opining against the combination.

Oh oh...except when they do:



mdellison said:


> So I get this BB gift book today that on page 37 simply states: "A gentleman never wears a button-down collar with a bow tie." Now how do they expect me to live with this apparent conflict between "tradliness" and my search to be a true gentleman in the BB (since ~ 1818) tradition?





CuffDaddy said:


> Whatever the aesthetic merits of the combination, I don't think it can accurately be said that there is a "widely accepted" sentiment against it.


I beg to differ:



going grey said:


> button down collars are the one type of collar you DON'T wear a bowtie with..





Joe Tradly said:


> Here we go again.
> 
> ...snipped for space....
> 
> ...





KenR said:


> Agree with dphil, a bow tie with semi spread collar looks fine. I also tend to follow what going grey said. I don't wear a bow tie with a OCBD shirt. But then again, I wear bow ties on more formal occasions, often with a DB suit.


All the above quotes on a board dominated by Trads. It appears there is plenty of support for my position.

So here's the thing: We can each cite references in support of our position until the cows come home, but I doubt either of us is capable of convincing the other, nor would we care to spend the time to do so. I'll stand by my (modified) statement, I'll wish you good cheer, and I'll post no more in this thread.


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## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Although I am in the button down camp, I give a tip of the hat to the talented Staff of Louis of Boston in the 80's.

upload picture


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

Buffalo said:


> I'm not a fan of bow ties but for those that are, it seems to look better with a button down shirt. I was watching Newsroom, the new show on HBO last night, and Sam Waterston favors bow ties with button down shirts. He seems to carry that off well without looking affected.


You mean no more affected than the usual Mr. Waterston, right? :icon_smile_wink:



hardline_42 said:


> (Tippo):avoid padding your post count by posting two and three word opinions to every single active thread


A very strong +1. You are beginning to look like a troll.

*Shirtmaker's Note:* Whereas a necktie goes downward from the knot which fits nicely under the collar leaf, a bow extrudes sideways on the outside of the leaf. Thus this important caveat for bow ties: Your collar should have at least .75" (or a bit more) of tie space. This gives the bow tie knot a place to rest comfortably without covering too much of your collar leaf.


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

Alexander Kabbaz said:


> *Shirtmaker's Note:* Whereas a necktie goes downward from the knot which fits nicely under the collar leaf, a bow extrudes sideways on the outside of the leaf. Thus this important caveat for bow ties: Your collar should have at least .75" (or a bit more) of tie space. This gives the bow tie knot a place to rest comfortably without covering too much of your collar leaf.


Dang it, I said I wouldn't post in this thread anymore...

BlueSeersucker here (we's usin' code names)...I'm not sure I'm following you here. Is the space you're speaking of measured between the very base of the collar leafs?

Any good vs. bad pictures would be helpful and much appreciated.


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## Alexander Kabbaz (Jan 9, 2003)

BluePincord said:


> Dang it, I said I wouldn't post in this thread anymore...
> 
> BlueSeersucker here (we's usin' code names)...I'm not sure I'm following you here. Is the space you're speaking of measured between the very base of the collar leafs?
> 
> Any good vs. bad pictures would be helpful and much appreciated.


Photo - Left collar:


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## BluePincord (May 14, 2012)

Something I had never considered...thank you kindly.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

BluePincord said:


> All the above quotes on a board dominated by Trads. It appears there is plenty of support for my position.
> 
> So here's the thing: We can each cite references in support of our position until the cows come home, but I doubt either of us is capable of convincing the other, nor would we care to spend the time to do so. I'll stand by my (modified) statement, I'll wish you good cheer, and I'll post no more in this thread.


 If you are asserting that there is a widely accepted rule or convention against BaBD's, all I have to do is show evidence that there are a fair number of well-dressed men who violate this alleged rule, and the rule is disproved as to its acceptance. The fact that some other chap (whether on the trad forum or one devoted to bass fishing) shares your opinion is not evidence of anything in particular.

But, as you say, you seem to be entirely resistant to empirical evidence, and will stick to your position no matter what I show you. For the record, and as I may have mentioned, I don't wear BD's with ties _at all_. So, to some extent, I share your preference. I just don't claim that this preference is "widely-accepted."


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## Haffman (Oct 11, 2010)

Although I admit to a difficulty getting used to button down collars with any kind of tie, which may deeply impair my aesthetic judgement on this issue, I find the combination of bow tie with a button down collar over-the-top. It distracts the eye from the bow tie, there is just too much going on below the face.


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

Haffman said:


> Although I admit to a difficulty getting used to button down collars with any kind of tie... there is just too much going on below the face.


I have to agree with Haffman. I think that (in my case) growing up in the Northeast, I always viewed/wore button down collared shirts as a more casual option, never with a tie (and still do). I can't quite put my finger on it, but seeing a tie (of any sort) paired with a button down collared shirt just looks out of place...


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## FLMike (Sep 17, 2008)

salgy said:


> ....seeing a tie (of any sort) paired with a button down collared shirt just looks out of place...


Living in Memphis, you must see a lot of businessmen who look out of place. By the way, that's a great looking rig you just posted on the Trad WAYW thread. It could only be improved by a bd collared shirt! :icon_smile_wink:


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## salgy (May 1, 2009)

FLCracka said:


> Living in Memphis, you must see a lot of businessmen who look out of place. By the way, that's a great looking rig you just posted on the Trad WAYW thread. It could only be improved by a bd collared shirt! :icon_smile_wink:


there's a lot in Memphis that looks out of place to me... the one that shocked me the most is how many loafers with suits i see...


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## Tippo (Jul 1, 2012)

hardline_42 said:


> avoid padding your post count by posting two and three word opinions to every single active thread


Thanks for the advice (4 words)


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