# CH v SH



## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

This is doing my head in! 

Chicago...why? 

French words pronounce CH as our SH e.g. chevre, chevalier, champagne etc. 


But English, Spanish and American Indian words pronounce CH as CH not SH. 


Chelsea, Chester, Charles, Chikawa, Chikasaw, Chattanooga, Chile, choritos, chica, church, chandler, chopper and so on...


So why Shicago????? I can't think of another English or Spanish word that pronounces the initial CH as SH. 


The only logical answer I can come up with is that Chicago is originally a French word/creation... (from an American Indian word)


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## SG_67 (Mar 22, 2014)

Chi-Ka-Goah

That's a phonetic spelling but it's a Native American word for "The Place of the Smelly Onion" or the "Stinky Onion" or something along those lines. There's no literal translation for it. 

When white settlers arrived in what we now consider Chicago, it was a bog. The natives were all too happy to let them settle there, asking themselves "why the hell would anyone want to live here?"


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Earl of Ormonde said:


> The only logical answer I can come up with is that Chicago is originally a French word/creation.


Like Chevrolet!!


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Chicago is a French derivative of a Native American word.

Chagrin, chartruse, chandelier, charade, chaparral...

What about charisma, chaos, character, chancre...?

*********

As a native English speaker, I was really at a loss when a NYC cab driver asked me to explain the "rules" regarding the "ough" sound...


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

sbdivemaster said:


> Chicago is a French derivative of a Native American word.


Thank you for confirming what I concluded could be the only logical answer Native American via French.


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

sbdivemaster said:


> What about charisma, chaos, character, chancre...?
> 
> *********


The K sound for CH comes from 3 routes 
1. Greek 
2. Greek via Latin 
3. Germanic languages

Χριστός - Kristos - Christos - Christ

Christus - German
Kristi and Kristus - Swedish


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

sbdivemaster said:


> ... chaparral...
> 
> chaos...?
> 
> ...


Chaparral is Spanish for the Mediterranean scrub brush plant formation known in French as Maqui (sp?), in which Resistance fighters hid during WW II, and is a term used to describe them. The leg protectors worn by Western Hemisphere cowboys are called "chaps" in English, and "chaparros" in Spanish.

I believe Chaos is a Greek word.

Wish I knew more. Perhaps Choun will help out.

Gurdon


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

Yes Chaos is from the Greek, _khaos; _and is one of the words that follows the No.2 I gave above, Greek via Latin.


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## Langham (Nov 7, 2012)

Gurdon said:


> Chaparral is Spanish for the Mediterranean scrub brush plant formation known in French as Maqui (sp?), in which Resistance fighters hid during WW II, and is a term used to describe them. The leg protectors worn by Western Hemisphere cowboys are called "chaps" in English, and "chaparros" in Spanish.
> 
> I believe Chaos is a Greek word.
> 
> ...


The universal English term is 'chaps'. I believe in Spanish they are called _chaparejos_, and in Mexican Spanish _chaparreras_. _Chaparro_ is the dwarf evergreen oak which I imagine growing on the _chaparral_.

The French word is _Maquis_, and as you say referred also to the resistance fighters. I think the term may also have been used in Spain for the guerrillas who continued to ambush Franco's men long after the civil war had ended. Possibly some of them had fought in both France and Spain.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

Thank you for explaining things. In California and New Mexico I have heard Spanish speakers refer to chaps as chaparros. (It is also possible that I misheard the word as I learned it prior to studying Spanish in school.) I didn't know the word chaparro applied to Iberian dwarf oak trees. The North American chaparral plant formation consists of various brushy plants, notably manzanita, named by the Spanish because it has fruits that resemble "little apples." 

Oak trees (in Spanish, robles) are a signiture landscape tree in California and occur in close proximity to the chaparral. I am unaware of there being dwarf oaks on the Pacific Slope, and I don't think there are oaks growing in the chaparral. (I studied it in a university course 50 years ago, so there may be dwarf oaks which I neglected to observe, or neglected to remember. In that same course I did observe stunted oaks in the coastal Pigmy Forest in Mendocino County.) 

It is interesting that the word for an Old World tree used to name an Old World plant formation got applied to a New World formation of similar appearance but lacking the plant which provided the root, so to speak, of the word. 

Regards,
Gurdon


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