# Tom James experience



## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

I recently had a positive experience with Tom James and wanted to share it. After reading through an old thread about Tom James on this forum, I feel like a cliche. I am in finance, am not obsessed about clothes, hate to shop and live in a small city where the last independent men's store closed several years ago. I had used Tom James for a few purchases about 20 years ago and felt like I got great quality, but it was at prices I could barely afford with a growing family. For about the past 15 years, I've bought mostly mid- and top-level suits from Jos. A. Bank, but they don't seem to run as many sales as they did before the Men's Warehouse purchase, and from reading online reviews, it seems as if their quality has slipped. I decided to give TJ another try. The rep who came to my office is about my age with decades of experience. He wears sharply what he sells. He spent the better part of two hours discussing styles, designs and fabrics, along with taking a good deal of time with his measurements. He was knowledgeable but not the least pushy. I ordered a tan two-piece suit, a blue blazer and a pair of black and white houndstooth trousers. The trousers are very similar to a pair I had gotten from TJ years ago and still remembered well, down to the nickel-plated zipper which they still use. To me, it was a good experience. I won't say great because I haven't received my order yet. As someone who has shopped almost exclusively online for at least the past five years, I felt very comfortable with the rep and appreciated having someone to assist in the selection process while also not having to worry if I was ordering the right size. At 6-5, 230 I can be hard to fit. I'm really looking forward to receiving my garments.


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## drlivingston (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks for the post. Update us when you receive the garments. I have used TJ on a couple of occasions and have nothing but positive things to say about them.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

drlivingston said:


> Thanks for the post. Update us when you receive the garments. I have used TJ on a couple of occasions and have nothing but positive things to say about them.


+1.

Yes, please! Glad your ordering experience was so successful! :thumbs-up:

Any additional details you would care to share would be appreciated.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

Flanderian said:


> +1.
> 
> Any additional details you would care to share would be appreciated.


I'm not sure what details you are looking for. I will say I was impressed with the measurement process and our discussion about style and fit -- an extra quarter inch here, the size of the leg opening, height of lapel notch, etc. The gentleman was very easy to talk with and appeared very knowledgeable, which is non-existent online and rare to find in stores these days. It was like having a good store clerk with whom you had a long-standing relationship and trust assisting in ironing out the details. My problem with OTR trousers is I wear around a 39. A 38 is a little snug, but vanity prevents me from ordering a 40. A 44 Extra Long suit fits pretty well unaltered, but everyone has idiosyncrasies that good MTM can help. That size is not an option at Brooks Brothers, unfortunately. I ordered surgeon's cuffs (never had before) and a ticket pocket on the blazer and what look like nice metal buttons (kind of a basket weave) and had both jackets made with side vents, which I prefer but generally can't get OTR. Pleated trousers. If you want to know anything else, ask away.


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

This post would have given a smile to the recently departed founder of Tom James, Spencer Hays.

Mr. Hays created Tom James to fill a void in that a good number of busy business and professional men needed custom clothes and a salesman who could advise the customer. The old fashioned neighborhood, downtown, and campus clothier filled that purpose, but they started to leave the scene as evidenced by the initial poster. The department stores did not provide the same level of quality and service that the old, downtown clothier provided.

Mr. Hays recently noted that despite the growth of the web, the internet will not displace the human relationship between salesman and customer. It is still needed.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Kyle76 said:


> I'm not sure what details you are looking for.


Yes, a little specificity might be nice! :redface:

I guess this was a rather clumsy attempt to ask what kind of prices they charge? :redface:



Kyle76 said:


> I will say I was impressed with the measurement process and our discussion about style and fit -- an extra quarter inch here, the size of the leg opening, height of lapel notch, etc. The gentleman was very easy to talk with and appeared very knowledgeable, which is non-existent online and rare to find in stores these days. It was like having a good store clerk with whom you had a long-standing relationship and trust assisting in ironing out the details. My problem with OTR trousers is I wear around a 39. A 38 is a little snug, but vanity prevents me from ordering a 40. A 44 Extra Long suit fits pretty well unaltered, but everyone has idiosyncrasies that good MTM can help. That size is not an option at Brooks Brothers, unfortunately. I ordered surgeon's cuffs (never had before) and a ticket pocket on the blazer and what look like nice metal buttons (kind of a basket weave) and had both jackets made with side vents, which I prefer but generally can't get OTR. Pleated trousers. If you want to know anything else, ask away.


This sounds ideal! I know over the years I've read consistently good reports of the results this firm has been able to achieve.

And I forgot to mention that black and white houndstooth is one of my favorites, and I feel it's superb for odd trousers.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

All in, a little north of $2k.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Kyle76 said:


> All in, a little north of $2k.


Thank you! I would think that rather in line.

Comical aside: I initially read the above before donning my reading glasses and read the dollar sign as a 5. A true eyebrow raising moment! :biggrin:


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

Flanderian said:


> Thank you! I would think that rather in line.
> 
> Comical aside: I initially read the above before donning my reading glasses and read the dollar sign as a 5. A true eyebrow raising moment! :biggrin:


Ha! Nope, but they do offer a true bespoke in the $5k range.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

Kyle76 said:


> Ha! Nope, but they do offer a true bespoke in the $5k range.


Does Tom James bespoke have all of the customization of bespoke from Savile Row tailors? At that price, it's a must!


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

Audi S5 TC said:


> Does Tom James bespoke have all of the customization of bespoke from Savile Row tailors? At that price, it's a must!


I didn't even go there, but I'll try to get some details on the next visit. I would imagine it's a multiple fittings deal.


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## EdwardWilson (Apr 12, 2017)

Funny, I met with a kid selling Tom James today too. I generally like their product, though I find them very pushy. They approach you on the street in Chicago and tell you how sharp you look then try to get your contact info.

They being said, they have a lot of pros.

1. They own Oxxford (my dream suit), Hickey Freeman and Coppley. I think they just bought Samuelsohn.

2. Once you get above their base suit ($800), which is made in Asia, starting at $1200 the suits are made in Maryland. So you can get MTM or bespoke and support American workers.

3. Their custom shirts are made in NJ and start around $160. So compare that to what you get at Nordstrom for similar price and there is no comparison.

Next year I will test them out with a shirt. I'm into bold plaids so if they have a fabric I like maybe a suit. And maybe one day when I have 5k burning a hole in my pocket I will walk into the Oxxford store in Chicago and get a fully bespoke suit all seen by hand.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

EdwardWilson said:


> 3. Their custom shirts are made in NJ and start around $160. So compare that to what you get at Nordstrom for similar price and there is no comparison.


I'd be interested learn who makes for them in NJ if you find out. :beer:


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Flanderian said:


> I'd be interested learn who makes for them in NJ if you find out. :beer:


It has to be one of the three Gamberts. I don't know if all three are in NJ. I can never remember which is which.


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## cellochris (Dec 14, 2015)

Tom James here in ATL is extremely pushy and in my experience were thoroughly unenjoyable to work with. Terrible tailoring and awful customer service. I posted this on another thread; at one point they showed up at my apartment with a seven page list of all my professional contacts (I teach at a university and it came up casually) asking if they could reach out to them with my recommendation, this after screwing up my order several times.

Nope, not for me.

That being said, glad you're all having positive experiences elsewhere.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

EdwardWilson said:


> Funny, I met with a kid selling Tom James today too. I generally like their product, though I find them very pushy. They approach you on the street in Chicago and tell you how sharp you look then try to get your contact info.
> 
> They being said, they have a lot of pros.
> 
> ...


For $5K, you could buy a bespoke suit from Chris Despos and get, by a large amount, the best suit America has to offer. If I'm not mistaken, Chris Despos is a traveling tailor.


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

And maybe one day when I have 5k burning a hole in my pocket I will walk into the Oxxford store in Chicago and get a fully bespoke suit all seen by hand.[/QUOTE]

As reported in Crain's Chicago Business in the April 27th, 2016 edition, Oxxford no longer sells directly to the public.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

At some point, I'll try to get details on the various levels of tailoring and how they work and are priced. From the website, it appears that Oxxford is only their second-highest line.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

cellochris said:


> Tom James here in ATL is extremely pushy and in my experience were thoroughly unenjoyable to work with. Terrible tailoring and awful customer service. I posted this on another thread; at one point they showed up at my apartment with a seven page list of all my professional contacts (I teach at a university and it came up casually) asking if they could reach out to them with my recommendation, this after screwing up my order several times.
> 
> Nope, not for me.
> 
> That being said, glad you're all having positive experiences elsewhere.


Agree...pushy and creepy. Avoid, IMO.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

cellochris said:


> Tom James here in ATL is extremely pushy and in my experience were thoroughly unenjoyable to work with. Terrible tailoring and awful customer service. I posted this on another thread; at one point they showed up at my apartment with a seven page list of all my professional contacts (I teach at a university and it came up casually) asking if they could reach out to them with my recommendation, this after screwing up my order several times.
> 
> Nope, not for me.
> 
> That being said, glad you're all having positive experiences elsewhere.


That's dreadful! Sometimes the individuals with whom you deal can make all the difference. Hopefully, that will be the case for the OP.



Matt S said:


> It has to be one of the three Gamberts. I don't know if all three are in NJ. I can never remember which is which.


I had used both Mel, when Mel Jr. was still with us, and his uncle Skip (SGA). Though my most recent experience with either is somewhere around 20 years old. I last dealt with SGA, which did mainly wholesale, through a small retail shop they had in Millburn. The woman running the shop was highly experienced and capable at both fitting and communicating the customer's needs and wants to the factory. I was very pleased with the results obtained. Skip preferred to focus on running the plant.


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## EdwardWilson (Apr 12, 2017)

After I met with the kid, and I had told him before the meeting (which he requested) that I was not buying until the fall, he gave me a printout of my LinkedIn contacts and asked for 5 names of people he could contact at my referral.

I couldn't believe it. Totally tasteless. He gave me this speech about how he was building his business and basically implied it was my job to help him find new clients. I told him I would not and that I didn't feel comfortable giving him my blessing to contact people through me. I should have told him I'm a lawyer building my practice and I need a list of 5 people who have recently been in car accidents.

That being said, I do think they offer a good product.

How is Chris Despos better than Oxxford???


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

EdwardWilson said:


> How is Chris Despos better than Oxxford???


People on here and on other fashion and style message boards who have bought suits and other from both suit makers have said so. I also have read reviews on Angie's List, Google and similar search engines from people who bought suits and other garments from Chris Despos and Oxxford and they say the same thing.


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## Jgarner197 (Feb 24, 2017)

EdwardWilson said:


> After I met with the kid, and I had told him before the meeting (which he requested) that I was not buying until the fall, he gave me a printout of my LinkedIn contacts and asked for 5 names of people he could contact at my referral.
> 
> I couldn't believe it. Totally tasteless. He gave me this speech about how he was building his business and basically implied it was my job to help him find new clients. I told him I would not and that I didn't feel comfortable giving him my blessing to contact people through me. I should have told him I'm a lawyer building my practice and I need a list of 5 people who have recently been in car accidents.
> 
> ...


The salesman in me applauds the young chap for at least having the gumption to ask you for your blessing. That had to have been an awkward meeting for both of you after that, lol. This is clearly a tactic Tom James as a company is teaching them to do and most people would not have had the courage to even ask. He was just young and hungry as they say, and in need of patience, timing, and a more polished approach.


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## EdwardWilson (Apr 12, 2017)

The sad part is I like their product and would buy from them when I'm in the market.

Before the meeting he asked if any of my existing clothing needed tailoring, and they they would perform the service free to build relationship. I brought a suit with frayed lining and pants that need to be tapered. He suddenly forgot all it and wasn't interested in doing what he had proposed.

I might use a different salesperson.


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

EdwardWilson said:


> The sad part is I like their product and would buy from them when I'm in the market.
> 
> Before the meeting he asked if any of my existing clothing needed tailoring, and they they would perform the service free to build relationship. I brought a suit with frayed lining and pants that need to be tapered. He suddenly forgot all it and wasn't interested in doing what he had proposed.
> 
> I might use a different salesperson.


The difference between getting someone who is in the clothing business, and someone who is "in sales". Kyle76's guy sounds like he's in the former. Your guy might be hustling in a whole other business next month.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

phyrpowr said:


> The difference between getting someone who is in the clothing business, and someone who is "in sales". Kyle76's guy sounds like he's in the former. Your guy might be hustling in a whole other business next month.


Exactly. The difference is a guy with an established clientele and one trying to build a business to the point of survival. It's tough. I've seen many fail out in my industry. I get that some of these tactics are off-putting. Tell them that if they do a good job you may be comfortable sharing your experience with a few friends. I've seen the local shops die in my town. If I want to preserve a positive experience for myself, I don't mind providing a few names, but I'll do it on my own terms and don't mind saying so.


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Matt S said:


> It has to be one of the three Gamberts. I don't know if all three are in NJ. I can never remember which is which.


Tom James's shirts are made by Individualized Shirts of Perth Amboy, New Jersey. It is an affiliate company. IMHO, Individualized Shirts make a better shirt than the Gamberts that I have tried.


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## son of brummell (Sep 29, 2004)

Just to clarify a few issues:

1. Tom James sells Oxxford under the Oxxford label. It is an affiliate company.

2. Oxxford is sold in its home town of Chicago, but I am not sure if it is sold out of the factory or through a retailer in the city or through the Oxxford Store in NYC in a "paper" transaction. I am not sure about this, and you should check with the factory.

3. I am a great fan of Oxxford, but I also hold Chris Despos on a very high plane. He is probably Chicago's best bespoke tailor. His is a small, workshop, bespoke shop model whereas Oxxford is a factory model. Is one better than the other? You would have to be the judge. I have never had a Despos suit. Oxxford and Despos are both top of the line. It is like debating the quality of Tiffany versus Cartier. They're both great.

4. Tom James has a large sales force, therefore, you have the good and the bad. There is no question, that a salesman is only as good as his last sale, and a salesman gotta sell. You have kids and gals who don't have much experience and who don't stay long. These youngsters tend to be pushy. On the other hand, you have experienced sales people who have a loyal following of high quality big order customers who are the business/professional leaders of their community. These experienced salesmen don't have to push, and customers come to them through unsolicited referrals from other customers. Where possible, go with one of these experienced salesmen through a referral source.

Good luck.


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## Matt S (Jun 15, 2006)

Thanks. I didn't know Individualized was also in NJ. I had a shirt made by one of the Gamberts (I don't know which one), and the fusing in the collar and cuffs was like a stiff cardboard, and half the buttons came off. I could hardly even button the shirt because the buttons were sewn directly onto the shirt. The pinpoint cloth wore out fast too.


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## suitman19 (Nov 11, 2013)

Tom James uses:

Suits (USA) : English American Factory (Maryland)
Shirts: Individualized Shirts (New Jersey)

Personally, I don't think very highly of English American. If you are going to use their better make (Not Oxxford), you are far better off with a company like Adrian Jules.

Individualized Shirts does not compare in quality to Mel Gambert. And the 'personalization' of the Gambert product allows you to do so much more as well.

To my knowledge, Sameulsohn is owned by a Canadian Private Equity Group. They have also purchased the rights to Hickyy Freeman Clothing as well.


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## EdwardWilson (Apr 12, 2017)

We must research who owns what:



https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/grano-owner-of-menswear-brand-samuelsohn-acquires-hickey-freeman-license-and-factory-216142561.html


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## Searching_Best_Fit (Feb 11, 2015)

Just state what I found from these links:

The Individualized Apparel groups owns the brands of individualized Shirt, English/American Tailoring, Coppley, Holland and Sherry, Gitman Bros, Oxxford, and a brand called H. Freeman. This H. Freeman is adapted from Hyman Freeman as in:

_The H. Freeman style is an adaptation of Hyman Freeman and his wife, both master tailors from Russia, who opened a custom tailoring shop in 1885 in the university district of Philadelphia..._

This H. Freeman is not Hickey Freeman, the tailoring business acquired by Grano, private equity company that owns Samuelsohn and Hickey Freeman. The entry of Hickey Freeman in Wiki was incorrect.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

Had my garments delivered today. The separate pair of trousers was fine, and I kept them. Having some minor adjustments made to the suit jacket and sport coat -- tucking in a little extra fabric below the back of the neck, slight sleeve length adjustment on the suit jacket and some minor adjustments through the body. Pleased with the general fit and quality of all three items and the adjustments should really customize the fit.


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## FiscalDean (Dec 10, 2011)

son of brummell said:


> J
> 
> 2. Oxxford is sold in its home town of Chicago, but I am not sure if it is sold out of the factory or through a retailer in the city or through the Oxxford Store in NYC in a "paper" transaction. I am not sure about this, and you should check with the factory.
> 
> ...


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## icky thump (Feb 2, 2008)

I have one suit from Tom James. Though I thought the rep was very nice I thought I overpaid for what I got. I got one M2M made of Holland and Sherry sharkskin blue fabric for $2k. However, it did not really hold up well. For lack of a better word, the suit got "ratty" over the past 2 1/2 years. I have other suits (12 year old J Press and Paul Stuart) that have held up better. 

Also, while I understand this service helps some people, I prefer to go into a shop and browse than for someone to come to my office.


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## SuitTalk (Jan 29, 2019)

Kyle76 said:


> At some point, I'll try to get details on the various levels of tailoring and how they work and are priced. From the website, it appears that Oxxford is only their second-highest line.


Oxxford Full Bespoke is Tom James' highest line of construction. Fabric exclusivity can drive cost up from there.


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## SuitTalk (Jan 29, 2019)

EdwardWilson said:


> Funny, I met with a kid selling Tom James today too. I generally like their product, though I find them very pushy. They approach you on the street in Chicago and tell you how sharp you look then try to get your contact info.
> 
> They being said, they have a lot of pros.
> 
> ...


None of Tom James' garments are made in Asia. Tom James owns all their own shops with entry level suits made in their factory in Chile. Mid-range made at English American in Westminster, MD or at Coppley in Canada; Highest quality (Oxxford) made at Oxxford in Chicago.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

SuitTalk said:


> None of Tom James' garments are made in Asia. Tom James owns all their own shops with entry level suits made in their factory in Chile. Mid-range made at English American in Westminster, MD or at Coppley in Canada; Highest quality (Oxxford) made at Oxxford in Chicago.


...and there are so many better options than Tom James. The referral pressure alone makes them worth avoiding.


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## SuitTalk (Jan 29, 2019)

smmrfld said:


> ...and there are so many better options than Tom James. The referral pressure alone makes them worth avoiding.


Often enthusiasts are eager to connect their friends and associates. It's voluntary.


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

SuitTalk said:


> Often enthusiasts are eager to connect their friends and associates. It's voluntary.


Good try, but fail. These aren't "enthusiasts" who are "eager" to connect their unsuspecting friends and associates. In each case of which I'm aware, it's the sales rep who pushes for referrals, leading to awkward situations. It's a slimy practice and IMO reason enough to avoid Tom James when there are so many other choices.


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## Kyle76 (May 5, 2017)

There may be a lot of choices out there, but for me, many involve traveling an hour or more to get to them. My Tom James rep comes to me. He asked for some names early on, but not in an uncomfortable way, and he hasn't asked since. I guess I could try Jos. A. Bank MTM, but I've not been impressed since the Men's Wearhouse merger. Out of curiosity, SuitTalk, do you work for Tom James?


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## SuitTalk (Jan 29, 2019)

Kyle76 said:


> There may be a lot of choices out there, but for me, many involve traveling an hour our more to get to them. My Tom James rep comes to me. He asked for some names early on, but not in an uncomfortable way, and he hasn't asked since. I guess I could try Jos. A. Bank MTM, but I've not been impressed since the Men's Wearhouse merger. Out of curiosity, SuitTalk, do you work for Tom James?


I do work for Tom James. Thanks for asking. Since we don't advertise, our only growth comes from word of mouth or referrals. Thank you for your business, by the way.
We have many clients who have been with us a majority of their careers. We hope to be able to serve you for what remains of yours (and beyond).


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## CLTesquire (Jul 23, 2010)

smmrfld said:


> Good try, but fail. These aren't "enthusiasts" who are "eager" to connect their unsuspecting friends and associates. In each case of which I'm aware, it's the sales rep who pushes for referrals, leading to awkward situations. It's a slimy practice and IMO reason enough to avoid Tom James when there are so many other choices.


I hear you on this and have never tried Tom James. But I have a partner who loves them and uses them often. A rep coming to the office is crucial for him apparently.

I do think his rep asked in one of the initial meetings about referrals but wasn't pushy about it and didn't ask again. I guess experiences can vary.


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Tom James is not for everyone, but they are often too easily dismissed in these fora. I have used them in the past and the two gents I got to know were knowledgeable and took great measurements, resulting in among the best fitting garments I have owned. Yes, they are pricey and work best for men who are either uninterested in learning about menswear or are too busy to shop, but nonetheless want to look good in the classic sense. That describes a lot of gents, though I wish it described even more.


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