# Best leather shoe soles



## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

I have a few pairs of Armani shoes. I had one pair of the shoes resoled recently and I was quite pleased with the new sole that the shoemaker put on the shoe - Vero Cuoio.

I think that the quality is actually a bit better than the quality of the original sole that Armani had on the shoe.

I bought another pair of Armani shoes recently and the sole seems sub par compared to the Vero Cuoio sole. The Armani sole feels like it is made out of composite sawdust - really unimpressive.

So I am going to get my new Armani shoes resoled. I am thinking about getting the shoes resoled with Vero Cuoio soles but I just wanted to check with you guys first to see if there is a "favorite" leather sole on this forum.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Vero Cuoio is one of the better choices out there. :icon_smile_big:


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

Bogdanoff said:


> Vero Cuoio is one of the better choices out there. :icon_smile_big:


That's cruel :devil:


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## dfloyd (May 7, 2006)

*While senior members of this forum....*

continually disparage Armani products, junior members continue to buy them. Read the Armani posts or caveat emptor.


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

slav2fashn said:


> I was quite pleased with the new sole that the shoemaker put on the shoe - Vero Cuoio.


Vero Cuoio = Real Leather

The replacement sole might have been better than the original one, but 'Vero Cuoio' as such is not a sign of a superior sole.

The location of the sole (within the hide) the tanning process used and the density (the sole leather gets pounded by huge hammers to increase it's density)
are significant factors for the life of a leather sole.

The German company Rendenbach is considered one of the top manufacturers for bottom leather (but not the only one).


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

Joh. Rendenbach is the best leather available today. IMO It's better leather than what the best makers use for their soles. By the way, some of the designer manufacturers that I see mentioned here in this forum use leather that I would consider below belly-grade for their soles. When we remove their soles for re-crafting the underside of the sole flakes off like saw dust.
I guess it's all in the name.


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## The Deacon (Nov 25, 2006)

Nick V said:


> Joh. Rendenbach is the best leather available today. IMO It's better leather than what the best makers use for their soles. By the way, some of the designer manufacturers that I see mentioned here in this forum use leather that I would consider below belly-grade for their soles. When we remove their soles for re-crafting the underside of the sole flakes off like saw dust.
> I guess it's all in the name.


Sir, would the Polo Darlton happen to be one of those below belly grade soles? My Darlton sole leather is wearing away too rapidly for once weekly use. This might be the softest leather sole I've ever encountered and are inferior to My Alden double soles, vintage Florseheim and calzoleria harris double soles.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

The Deacon said:


> Sir, would the Polo Darlton happen to be one of those below belly grade soles? My Darlton sole leather is wearing away too rapidly for once weekly use. This might be the softest leather sole I've ever encountered and are inferior to My Alden double soles, vintage Florseheim and calzoleria harris double soles.


I can't speak to Alden or Harris, but vintage Florsheim (Royal) Imperials used absolutely outstanding leather for their soles. This has been my experience, the experience of a great many of my clients when I was selling shoes, the experience of the shoe store owner, and -- of course -- yours.


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## billiebob (Apr 20, 2005)

The Deacon said:


> Sir, would the Polo Darlton happen to be one of those below belly grade soles? My Darlton sole leather is wearing away too rapidly for once weekly use. This might be the softest leather sole I've ever encountered and are inferior to My Alden double soles, vintage Florseheim and calzoleria harris double soles.


I'm afraid I have exactly the opposite experience. My Alden soles go faster than any other, while my Polo Darlton soles wear like iron. I can feel the difference when I walk as well, the Polo sole is hard and unyielding, while the Alden sole feels much softer and more comfortable but at the expense of wear resistance.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

billiebob said:


> I'm afraid I have exactly the opposite experience. My Alden soles go faster than any other, while my Polo Darlton soles wear like iron. I can feel the difference when I walk as well, the Polo sole is hard and unyielding, while the Alden sole feels much softer and more comfortable but at the expense of wear resistance.


Are these the Alden Flexwelts?


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## Scoundrel (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks, I needed a laugh.

You must be some kind of puppet!?


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## LeonS (Apr 23, 2008)

Bogdanoff said:


> Vero Cuoio is one of the better choices out there. :icon_smile_big:


:icon_smile_big:


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## billiebob (Apr 20, 2005)

Teacher said:


> Are these the Alden Flexwelts?


No, the leather soles on the plaintoe cordovan bluchers. I can dent them with a fingernail, and I definitely can't do that with the Polo soles.

The wear on the Alden doesn't bother me as they are really nice to walk in. I just wear the Polo shoes when it might rain.


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## BAB (Dec 22, 2007)

any comments on grenson's soles and their wearability?


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Vero Cuoio has a website you should check out. It is definately a superior sole.


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## bengal-stripe (May 10, 2003)

Gosh, all those tanneries are based in Ponte a Egola (Pisa).

I wonder if this is down-wind from the ancient city of Pisa.
That used to be one of the medieval requirements for tanneries, 
as they stunk to high heaven.


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## Simon Myerson (Nov 8, 2007)

I thought when I read the original post that the name was that of a commercial enterprise. The tone of the posts wasn't pleasant. I thought we were supposed to help.


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## billiebob (Apr 20, 2005)

BAB said:


> any comments on grenson's soles and their wearability?


Good but not great. They may use the same sole supplier as EG for all I know, but my 1 pair of Stuart's Choice and 1 pair of vintage Grenson are wearing much faster than Polo and EG and I don't even wear the Grenson's all that much. My Loakes (1818 and 1 cheaper Tyrwhitt) also are wearing pretty fast.

The EG soles are the best combination of durability and toughness I've seen. That makes he happy because I don't want to have to topy them or wear them less to avoid wearing them out.

All my shoes have toe and heel taps as well, so I'm talking about the actual sole.


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## Bog (May 13, 2007)

Simon Myerson said:


> I thought when I read the original post that the name was that of a commercial enterprise. The tone of the posts wasn't pleasant. I thought we were supposed to help.


Remember, the original poster is complaining about packed sawdust soles as being inferior. Vero Cuoio is indeed one of the better choices out there. That is exactly the marque he should look for in the future when evaluating the soles of italian shoes.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

OK - So there are quite a few posts on this thread.

I see some mixed reviews on Vero Cuoio but the only alternatives that I see in this thread are:

1. Rendenbach - the concensus here appears to be that these are the best soles
2. "EG Soles" - I'm not sure what this is and Google did not appear to return results for this.

Are there any other specific sole makers that I should consider?

I see Alden referenced, and although Alden is a good shoe maker, I don't think Alden sells generic soles to be used for other shoes, do they?


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## billiebob (Apr 20, 2005)

slav2fashn said:


> OK - So there are quite a few posts on this thread.
> 
> I see some mixed reviews on Vero Cuoio but the only alternatives that I see in this thread are:
> 
> ...


By "EG" I meant the stock soles on Edward Green shoes. I have no experience with replacement soles yet.

That Vero Cuoio site is hilarious.


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

Bogdanoff said:


> Remember, the original poster is complaining about packed sawdust soles as being inferior. Vero Cuoio is indeed one of the better choices out there. That is exactly the marque he should look for in the future when evaluating the soles of Italian shoes.


The original poster asks for "favorite" leather sole. I assume he means the best.

Vero Cuoio in Italian means "real leather". Their snappy website clearly leans more toward marketing their product than educating the consumer about it. If it is "one of the better choices" why?

J.R.'s website does a good job educating the consumer about their product. There is no trace of marketing in their site. More importantly, from my experience Rendenbach is the finest leather available.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

OK - It looks like J.R. soles have a devoted following.

V.C. is the only other sole maker referenced in this thread.

I'll see if I can order J.R. soles for my next resole so I can try it out.

The local shoe repair shop only charges $70 to resole a pair of dress shoes with V.C. soles.

What do you think it would cost to resole a pair of shoes with J.R. soles?

Also, I assume that John Lobb makes their own soles but based on the posts in this thread the V.C. soles may be even better than the John Lobb soles.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

I just dropped off my shoes at the shoe repair shop.

Resole with VC soles, new laces and shine for $60 - good value I think.


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## Pengranger (Apr 13, 2008)

*Cheaney refurbishment*

I've always been impressed with the soles on Cheaney shoes, especially the oak bark ones. I've just had a 5 yr old pair refurbished for £65... I've worn these shoes at these twice a week since I've had them. Here's looking forward to another 5 yrs!


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Here is a quote from the Redenbach website:

"The manufacture of oak bark tanned leather is time consuming, requires a lot of work and is therefore extremely expensive."

This sounded a little intimidating at first but I Googled and found a shoe repair shop online that does a full resole with Redenbach soles for $99. This seems fairly reasonable since many people consider Redenbach soles to be the best. Is $99 for a full Redenbach resole about what I can expect to pay at any shoe repair shop?

Also, are Redenbach soles standard or does Redenbach have models with different characteristics (e.g. density or other factors)?


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> Here is a quote from the Redenbach website:
> 
> "The manufacture of oak bark tanned leather is time consuming, requires a lot of work and is therefore extremely expensive."
> 
> ...


Does the $99.00 include JR heels as well? Is this an OTC price or--is there shipping involved? If so, does the price include the shipping?

JR soles are all the same in characteristics. There are a few different thicknesses (irons). 9-10 is the most common iron.
They also come "stamped" or "no stamp". Most reputable repair shops use the stamped sole so that the customer sees what he is paying for.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Nick V said:


> Does the $99.00 include JR heels as well? Is this an OTC price or--is there shipping involved? If so, does the price include the shipping?


I think that $99 includes the heel as well. I would imagine that this price does not include shipping.

I am just trying to get a feel for the general price range that is typical for a full resole with Redenbach soles at a regular local shoe repair shop, e.g. $100 - $120, $180 - $200, $240 - $260, etc.

Is $100 about what other forum members are paying for a full resole with Redenbach soles at their shoe repair shop?

Also, I found the following information in another thread on this forum:

"JR soles come in 5 different thicknesses which are measured in Irons in the leather industry. 7-8 Iron, 8-9 Iron, 9-10 Iron, 10-11 iron, and 11-12 iron. The higher the iron the thicker the leather."

My local shoe repair shop has been resoling my shoes with 8-9 Vero Cuoios. Since Nick V is saying that 9-10 is the most common, I think that I will try 9-10 Redenbachs for my next resole. I assume that a 9-10 will have a slightly more substantial look than the 8-9. Is this correct?


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## indylion (Feb 28, 2005)

Nick V said:


> Joh. Rendenbach is the best leather available today. IMO It's better leather than what the best makers use for their soles. By the way, some of the designer manufacturers that I see mentioned here in this forum use leather that I would consider below belly-grade for their soles. When we remove their soles for re-crafting the underside of the sole flakes off like saw dust.
> I guess it's all in the name.


Useless without names


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

indylion said:


> Useless without names


Yes, I know. Please understand, I am in the shoe business. There isn't a brand mentioned in this forum that we haven't worked on. Most of them we service every week. Some of these companies refer customers to us. I don't feel that it is my place to post something like "ABC shoes are made like sh%t".
Generally, the Bespoke brands offer true quality in construction and materials. Some of the designer brands are what I was referring to. Image and name equals price, not quality.
If you read your quote about quality you can easily figure out who I might be referring to.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Hey Nick V - Will you please answer the question from my previous post about the sole iron?

I assume that the difference between 8-9 and 9-10 is that the 9-10 is slightly more substantial looking (the sole is slightly taller). Is this correct?

When you say that 9-10 is the most coommon iron, would you say that 75% of the high-end cap toe shoes that you work (e.g. - AE, Alden or better) on have a 9-10 sole?


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## Nick V (May 8, 2007)

slav2fashn said:


> Hey Nick V - Will you please answer the question from my previous post about the sole iron?
> 
> I assume that the difference between 8-9 and 9-10 is that the 9-10 is slightly more substantial looking (the sole is slightly taller). Is this correct?
> 
> When you say that 9-10 is the most coommon iron, would you say that 75% of the high-end cap toe shoes that you work (e.g. - AE, Alden or better) on have a 9-10 sole?


I can't give you a definitive answer but, I'll explain.

As mentioned leather thickness is measured in increments known as "irons". An Iron is approximately 1/48 of an inch thick. So I can't say that there is a substantial "look" between 8-9 iron and 9-10. However, years ago the most popular iron was 11-12. These sole were manufactured by U.S. tanneries mostly for U.S. made shoes. They looked thicker. As the U.S. shoe manufacturers closed or moved off-shore there came an influx of European shoe brands. Generally their appearance was sleeker, using thinner soles. Seeing that their popularity was gaining the remaining U.S. companies adapted accordingly. I suspect that, that is the reason why thinner soles are more popular today.

Example: The Allen Edmonds Park Avenue is made with a thinner sole today than it was 15 years ago.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

Hey Nick - I noticed the url to the shoe repair shop in your signature. Do you do mail order? What would you charge for a 9-10 Redenbach sole and heel? 

Also, can you give me a specific make and model for a shoe that you currently resole with a 9-10 sole? For example, do you know if OEM Allen Edmond Cordovans typically come with a 9-10 sole?

This way I can find a picture on the web to get an idea of what a 9-10 sole looks like.


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## cobblestone (Feb 13, 2007)

*pricing*

While I'm sure if you price 10 repair shops for their JR price, you might get 10 different prices. The question is what are you getting for the price. Are they removing the old corkand replacing it? replacing the heel bases in addition to the toplift, picking out the old stitches, replacing the welts if needed, heel pads, laces, stripping the old polish and conditioning the leather upper, adding color if needed before polishing. There are a lot of steps that go into a recraft. The problem is , you really won't know what they do. All you see is the sole and heel and how the upper looks. If you find a good repair shop, you discuss with them the things you are looking for and can they deliver the goods consistantly. The different thicknesses in leather not only determine the look but the flexibility of the leather as well. As the shoes age, sometimes if you put a bit thicker leather sole on, it will stiffen the shoe to make it feel as close to the new shoe as possible. But, you don't want to go too thick.


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## slav2fashn (Jan 31, 2008)

1/48" for an iron sounds about right.

I went to my local shoe repair shop and they showed me an 8-9 iron side-by-side with a 9-10 iron. When placed side by side the 9-10 iron appeared only very slightly thicker than the 8-9 - barely noticeable really. I was expecting a more noticeable difference.

Since Nick V is saying 9-10 is the most common iron these days for men's dress shoes, I'll probably go with 9-10 JR's for my next resole. Now I just need to figure out the cheapest mail order for JR soles. Any suggestions?


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