# Birdseye suit



## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

In what circumstances would you wear a grey birdseye suit (such as that on the TM Lewin website) ? A little too informal for business (though that might depend on the business), but a little too dressy for casual or "academic". Not elegant enough for dinner, "going out", etc. Friday wear maybe? Fairly heavy cloth I presume, so no good for summer. Birdseye suiting is a bit old fashioned, to my mind - is it coming back?


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## EasyGoing (Jun 24, 2007)

Birdseye is totally standard in banking in New York, so I can't imagine it's too informal for other business settings in the US.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

EasyGoing said:


> Birdseye is totally standard in banking in New York, so I can't imagine it's too informal for other business settings in the US.


Is that so? I'm not sure it's usual in the City of London (what do the Brits say?). It's certainly uncommon in Paris. Maybe TM Lewin are targeting the US market here.


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## Tim Correll (Jul 18, 2005)

EasyGoing said:


> Birdseye is totally standard in banking in New York, so I can't imagine it's too informal for other business settings in the US.


What about for birdseye a lawyer or doctor?

If birdseye is standard in banking, I take it birdseye is also standard for an accountant. Please tell me either way if I am right or if I am wrong about this.


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## ptolbert (May 12, 2005)

Birds Eye was at one time a way to make fabric feel softer, so a 120s would feel like a 150s, so it caught on in middle management circles.


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## Henry (May 4, 2006)

Increasingly common among the younger members of the City, but I'd imagine the old timers would, even if they don't look down on it on others, avoid wearing it themselves.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Rich said:


> A little too informal for business...Not elegant enough for dinner, "going out", etc.


You have summed up all the reasons why I avoid birdseye whenever I see it in a swatch book. Ask yourself if you would have even looked at it if you had the choice that bespoke offers? Is it only because it is RTW and it seemed a 'good deal' that you stopped to consider it?


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

I have a lovely blue-gray/charcoal birdseye in a soft, heavy fabric (a Greenfield Gold Fleece). Since the pattern is quite small and, thus, subtle, I have no compunctions wearing it for all but the most serious of business engagements. I'm in education, but I now work for an educational service (I'm only part time as a university administrator now), so there will be times when I have _business_ -- not _academic_ -- meetings. At the same time, it dresses down beautifully with a fine black collared sweater or light-colored shirt sans tie for an evening out at a fine restaurant or to a concert or play. It is the pattern's versatility that endears me to it so much.


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

You don't see them very often, but I think they are perfectly fine to wear in the City. Wear something else for an important meeting, but it's fine as an everyday suit.

I have one in a mid grey in an 11 oz cloth which I use a lot when I'm travelling. It looks smart enough for most meetings, but the cloth shrugs off wrinkles and stands up to all sorts of abuse when I'm on the road.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Sator said:


> You have summed up all the reasons why I avoid birdseye whenever I see it in a swatch book. Ask yourself if you would have even looked at it if you had the choice that bespoke offers? Is it only because it is RTW and it seemed a 'good deal' that you stopped to consider it?


You read my mind, Sator!


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## whistle_blower71 (May 26, 2006)

*Birdseye fan*

Birdesye is an elegant choice for business. A charcoal grey version is perfectly acceptable in London even in the most traditional of enviroments. I have even seen Morning suits made from it.
I agree that they do not always translate well into the higher "super" qualities and prefer a good, solid English version like the one that can be found in Dormeuil's Royal 12.

*W_B*


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

A can see versatility as a strong point (Teacher) - I could get away with a birdeseye suit in more situations than say a pinstripe or a windowpane check. I could probably switch the jacket for an "off-duty" blazer or sports coat even. However, I always feel that versatility is not so good as having the right suit for every occasion, and I'm not sure what the "right" occasion for birdseye is.
Wrinkle-resistance is a good point (Trilby) - a cold-season travel suit in place of the flannel suit I usually wear for that purpose?


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## Holdfast (Oct 30, 2005)

Trilby said:


> Wear something else for an important meeting, but it's fine as an everyday suit.


I agree. The difference in formality level is there... but it's hardly major. A birdseye is perfectly acceptable for wearing to work in almost any profession I would have thought.


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## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

Fashion TC said:


> What about for birdseye a lawyer or doctor?
> 
> If birdseye is standard in banking, I take it birdseye is also standard for an accountant. Please tell me either way if I am right or if I am wrong about this.


Speaking for the medical profession, I have 2 grey birdseye suits-one SB and one DB-both from Chipp, and enjoy them fully.g


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

rsmeyer said:


> Speaking for the medical profession, I have 2 grey birdseye suits-one SB and one DB-both from Chipp, and enjoy them fully.g


In the consulting business myself, but I also have 2, a BB Golden Fleece sack, and a Ralph Lauren Blue Label side vented english cut. I like both a great deal. As others have said, I don't wear them for the most formal occasions, but I did wear the Lauren for my Business School interview and I was accepted.


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## Financier (Mar 6, 2006)

In the US, Birdseye is considering perfectly acceptable business wear. Perhaps a very small step less conservative than solid charcoal.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

I have several birdseyes of different colors and weights although I do not like the really light grey, which ends up looking like a checkerboard. For that shade I'd do a sharkskin.

But I have navy blue (DB) for evenings, medium/charcoal DB for day (3pc), and I'm considering a nice warm charcoal 16oz for SB. Anderson's has a lovely 10oz in very dark charcoal/Oxford that might find some use some day. 

Birdseye is a little less severe than most stripes or plain serges. For that reason, I find it useful in many circumstances. If you don't like that aspect, then don't wear it.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Concordia said:


> Birdseye is a little less severe than most stripes or plain serges. For that reason, I find it useful in many circumstances.


But what circumstances? When/where do you think birdseye is more appropriate than stripes or plain serges? Or than windowpane or glen check?


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

In my work (I'm a consultant who has to sit in on investment committee meetings) I need to spend part of my time being noticed and part fading into the woodwork. There are other patterns that might do just as well, depending on the crowd in the room, but a medium-grey solid with some texture and a really relaxed drape hits a lot of the right notes for me.

Also, as Trilby said, it's a good suit to travel in. Takes hard wear, doesn't really wrinkle badly.


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## aportnoy (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm currently having a three piece bespoke suit made up in a Lesser 11oz charcoal birdseye w/ burgundy windowpane.


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## Financier (Mar 6, 2006)

Rich said:


> But what circumstances? When/where do you think birdseye is more appropriate than stripes or plain serges? Or than windowpane or glen check?


When are Pinstripes best? Chalkstripes? Fineline? Windowpanes? 2 color stripes? Glen plaid? Tic?

This is a purely subjective question, and borders on the ridiculous. If you can't find a time to wear pirdseye, or any other pattern, then don't buy it. I wear birdseye when I want a conservative pattern, but not something as boring as a solid charcoal.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Rich said:


> But what circumstances? When/where do you think birdseye is more appropriate than stripes or plain serges? Or than windowpane or glen check?


Why should it necessarily be _more_ appropriate? For me, birdseye (and nailhead) is a fine alternative, not necessarily more or less appropriate than its sibbling patterns and weaves for my circumstances. Variety, baby!

I've always been under the impression that French (at least Parisian) fashion and style tended to allow for more variety than typical Anglo-North-American tendencies. Along this line of thinking, I would think birdseye would be perfectly acceptable in most business situations in France, because it certainly is where I live (and it sounds like it is in London, too). Was I wrong about French style?


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## A Harris (Jun 25, 2003)

> Ask yourself if you would have even looked at it if you had the choice that bespoke offers? Is it only because it is RTW and it seemed a 'good deal' that you stopped to consider it?


Birdseye would be my first choice in fabric for a bespoke suit.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

I have a nice new heavyweight birdseye with a burgundy overcheck that I can't wait to put on this fall. I think it is one of the classic business suitings.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Teacher said:


> Why should it necessarily be _more_ appropriate? For me, birdseye (and nailhead) is a fine alternative, not necessarily more or less appropriate than its sibbling patterns and weaves for my circumstances. Variety, baby!
> 
> I've always been under the impression that French (at least Parisian) fashion and style tended to allow for more variety than typical Anglo-North-American tendencies. Along this line of thinking, I would think birdseye would be perfectly acceptable in most business situations in France, because it certainly is where I live (and it sounds like it is in London, too). Was I wrong about French style?


Birdseye would certainly be acceptable in most business situations in France, yes. but it would carry less authority than solid grey. Pinstripes are OK too, they look British, which is is good. Birdseye is uncommon and looks a bit oudated to my eyes - like something out of an old film. There is certainly more variety in work suits here than in the US/UK (but mostly in terms of cut and colour), but at the fashionable end, which tends to the sharp and sleek, and dobby birdseye is neither. If people saw it as an American banker look (which they don't), it might take on - maybe I'll try and start a trend!

Parisian fashion consciousness makes for variety, but at the same time it is highly conventional and predictable. People want to look like the magazines. Same thing in Italy, but worse.


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## Rich (Jul 10, 2005)

Financier said:


> I wear birdseye when I want a conservative pattern, but not something as boring as a solid charcoal.


I'm wondering when/where that situation might arise - can you give me an example? Or is is just how you feel?


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## aportnoy (Sep 12, 2005)

iammatt said:


> I have a nice new heavyweight birdseye with a burgundy overcheck that I can't wait to put on this fall. I think it is one of the classic business suitings.





aportnoy said:


> I'm currently having a three piece bespoke suit made up in a Lesser 11oz charcoal birdseye w/ burgundy windowpane.


Are you thinking what I'm thinking?


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## luk-cha (Apr 29, 2006)

i have been contemplating getting a dark blue grey birdseye just to add a bit of fun, and hoping it will double as a sport coat too


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## dopey (Jan 17, 2005)

aportnoy said:


> I'm currently having a three piece bespoke suit made up in a Lesser 11oz charcoal birdseye w/ burgundy windowpane.





iammatt said:


> I have a nice new heavyweight birdseye with a burgundy overcheck that I can't wait to put on this fall. I think it is one of the classic business suitings.





aportnoy said:


> Are you thinking what I'm thinking?


I have no idea what either of you are thinking, but I am thinking that I am glad I do not have a suit of birdsye with a burgundy overcheck.


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